# welder/engineer help



## kr0nick (Nov 8, 2011)

Hi all I am thinking of making a outdoor aviary with the dimensions 6x3x2M and I am stuck on what to use.
I am thinking using 1'x1' rhs, welded into square panels 3x3 with handymesh welded onto each panel. With holes pre drilled to bolt together for easy assembly and dismantle. Does this sound alright like not going to fall down? lol. Srorry i am not real good with my hands but this seems easy as I can weld sound and making panels seems the easiest way. Thanks.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 8, 2011)

Sounds like it will work.


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## kr0nick (Nov 8, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> Sounds like it will work.


Hey thanks mate I was going to use hardwood but that fell through and I got convinced steel would be alot easier.


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## james.5 (Nov 8, 2011)

It sounds like it should work alight.

What are you planning to keep in there???


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## Shauno (Nov 8, 2011)

Is it 1' foot RHS or 1" inch RHS that you plan on using? 
Sounds good either way depending on whether it will be free standing or holding substrate.


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## kr0nick (Nov 8, 2011)

1" sorry shauno
And I was just thinking of erecting the whole thing on a concrete slab if that helps


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## heners (Nov 8, 2011)

hey mate, if the enclosure you are planning to build is going to be out in the weather then galvanised steel is the way to go... i work at an engineering joint that specialise in structural steel and would highly recommend that before you weld gal steel you give the area a real light touch up with a grinder because welding galvanised steel sucks. the smoke from it makes you crook and spatter everywhere. after you weld the joins then give it a light spray with cold gal then a finishing coat with plain gal. galvanised steel is a little bit dearer than raw steel but doesn't rust and looks a treat if used correctly. 25mmx25mmx1.6mm would be fine but i'd recommend 2mm thick just so its a bit easier for ya to weld. hope it all works out for ya... and hope that makes sense also


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## Shauno (Nov 8, 2011)

Sounds good Kronick,
You may need to add extra bracing top and bottom to support the length of your enclosure. A few extra bolts into your slab along the length of your enclosure should do the job. You could possibly add a verticle centered piece of RHS into your 3x3 panels for extra strength and support for your handymesh.


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## PythonCollecta (Nov 9, 2011)

Sounds like it'll be pretty sound as "heners" said galvanised steel would be the way to go for something outdoors in the elements or atleast a high grade of stainless steel the same with "heners" i also work at a large metal fabrication company doing ladder and pipe support and trust me galvanised steel is a bitch to weld. If you dont want to get burnt id recommend wearing a welding jacket other than that its all pretty well straight forward for someone who has some welding experience


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 9, 2011)

If using gal I would recommend wearing a dusk mask suitable for fumes. Gal poisoning isn't fun.


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## -Peter (Nov 9, 2011)

You need to grind the gal off the area to be welded then paint area with an appropriate gal/paint product afterwards. I usually do it while its still hot..


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## wokka (Nov 9, 2011)

What unit of measurement are the 3 x 3 meters? feet?
In your 2 x3 x 6 M size is the 2 meters the height?


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## kr0nick (Nov 9, 2011)

wokka said:


> What unit of measurement are the 3 x 3 meters? feet?
> In your 2 x3 x 6 M size is the 2 meters the height?


Yeh Wokka it is 3D x 2H x 6W. And sorry mate I meant 3x2M panels
Also I will check out the prices of gal or stainless, But if it's real expensive can I just use RHS and paint it to prevent rust? Can someone recommend a product for this? Thanks.


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## wokka (Nov 9, 2011)

25mm gal RHS is about the same price as black RHS. I would put a n extra vertical half way along the panel so to brace the top plate so its only spanning 1.5meters. If you use a mig 1.6mm will be fine.


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## garthy (Nov 9, 2011)

Gal rhs isn't very dear at all, if you are only performing 25mm long welds at each joint there is little chance of metal fume fever or gal poisoning. If you are worried about it, buy a P2 respirator they are cheap. I would definitely recommend using the gal rhs and just spray the welds witha zinc rich paint (98% or better). I would go for 2mm as well, much better to work with and less sag. I was looking at it in todays paper it was just under $25 per 6.5m length. If you can make it without making individual panels you will save a lot of material as you will not be joining the rhs back to back for bolting. Buy a bit of flat bar and make some braces for the corners and just weld the whole structure together. By welding it you will still need at least 8 lengths ($200 worth) and that is without a door and any intermediate braces. I guess it depends on how much money you have to spend. Stainless steel even if you downgrade to 304 will cost an absolute packet.


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## kr0nick (Nov 9, 2011)

garthy said:


> Gal rhs isn't very dear at all, if you are only performing 25mm long welds at each joint there is little chance of metal fume fever or gal poisoning. If you are worried about it, buy a P2 respirator they are cheap. I would definitely recommend using the gal rhs and just spray the welds witha zinc rich paint (98% or better). I would go for 2mm as well, much better to work with and less sag. I was looking at it in todays paper it was just under $25 per 6.5m length. If you can make it without making individual panels you will save a lot of material as you will not be joining the rhs back to back for bolting. Buy a bit of flat bar and make some braces for the corners and just weld the whole structure together. By welding it you will still need at least 8 lengths ($200 worth) and that is without a door and any intermediate braces. I guess it depends on how much money you have to spend. Stainless steel even if you downgrade to 304 will cost an absolute packet.


Thanks garthy I shall grab a filter just in case. And I might be able to get a discount so I will check the price on gal. And I will stick with the individual panels as I am only young and if I move I want to take my lace monitors with me


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## Ramsayi (Nov 9, 2011)

Thought about using Qubelok? 25x25mm comes in 6.5mtr lengths for $20 each.Connectors are around $1.70 each.


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## kr0nick (Nov 9, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> Thought about using Qubelok? 25x25mm comes in 6.5mtr lengths for $20 each.Connectors are around $1.70 each.


No I have not heard of this :S, I will do some research now. Thanks


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## Ramsayi (Nov 9, 2011)

Bunnings sell it but you are better off dealing directly with Capral if you have one nearby.


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## kr0nick (Nov 9, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> Bunnings sell it but you are better off dealing directly with Capral if you have one nearby.


I will check. Also I read this stuff is aluminium? Will it be strong enough to hold a few lace monitors, As this is why I am making the enclosure so large.

Hey thanks all I am going with the galvanized SHS 25mmx25mmx2mm, still making the 3mx2m panels but I will put an extra horizontal at 1500 to reduce sag (thanks wokka).
I will post pics up after christmas as I will have time to weld up panels
Again thanks everyone your knowledge has helped me alot and keep your eyes peeled for my posts.

Hey thanks all I am going with the galvanized SHS 25mmx25mmx2mm, still making the 3mx2m panels but I will put an extra horizontal at 1500 to reduce sag (thanks wokka), I will post pics up after christmas as I will have time to weld up panelsAgain thanks everyone your knowledge has helped me alot and keep your eyes peeled for my posts.


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## Ricardo64 (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey Kr0nick, have thought about buying a pre fab shed and reinforcing it where it is needed. As a fabricator in a past life, there's alot of messing around with building a structure from scratch like;- How much steel do you order?- you have enough consumables and what do you need?- Do you have a flat area to construct the panels as you for mentioned?- How are you cutting the steel? (when they pre cut, you are charge per cut. Take this into consideration, if this is the case.)Remember one golden rule :- Measure twice cut once
This will save you a headache and cash

Good luck in your venture what ever you decide to do...


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## kr0nick (Nov 20, 2011)

Ricardo64 said:


> Hey Kr0nick, have thought about buying a pre fab shed and reinforcing it where it is needed. As a fabricator in a past life, there's alot of messing around with building a structure from scratch like;- How much steel do you order?- you have enough consumables and what do you need?- Do you have a flat area to construct the panels as you for mentioned?- How are you cutting the steel? (when they pre cut, you are charge per cut. Take this into consideration, if this is the case.)Remember one golden rule :- Measure twice cut once
> This will save you a headache and cash
> 
> Good luck in your venture what ever you decide to do...


Hey mate the engineering joint is cutting all my lengths for me so all I need to do is weld them up into panels, And I don't like the look of sheds so thats why I am doing it this way. Steel will be ordered next week ready for the xmas holidays when I will have time to weld. Thanks also mate


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## Virides (Nov 21, 2011)

A bit late to suggest that using 25x25x1.6mm Angle would have cut half the weight out.


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## wokka (Nov 21, 2011)

Virides said:


> A bit late to suggest that using 25x25x1.6mm Angle would have cut half the weight out.



Wouldn't that also reduce the strength by more than half? I expect a 25 mm RHS is more than twice as strong as 25mm angle in the same configuration.


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## Virides (Nov 21, 2011)

wokka said:


> Wouldn't that also reduce the strength by more than half? I expect a 25 mm RHS is more than twice as strong as 25mm angle in the same configuration.



In this application, it wouldn't be reducing the strength that much. The difference between angle and RHS is that RHS sould be better with tortional strain (twisting) and bend force. But given the configuration of these frames and their application, that any force imposed on these frames is neglegible and that the weight difference is of benefit to the support structure.

I design pylon structures for signage


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