# Fierce Snake



## muiks01 (Nov 23, 2008)

I am wanting to get a fierce snake in the year or so, I was just wondering if anyone knows of any reputable breeders for this snake.
I'm located in Victoria so getting a license to keep this snake isn't that hard, and we can keep them as pets down here, but finding people with them is extremely hard, so if there are any handlers on here with experience with this snake any advice on keeping them would also be greatly appreciated.
Thank You


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## AustHerps (Nov 23, 2008)

muiks01 said:


> ...so if there are any handlers on here with experience with this snake any advice on keeping them would also be greatly appreciated.



A forum is not an appropriate place to 'learn' how to keep inland taipans. In terms of husbandry, they are kept the same way as any other warm climate elapid. If you need more advice than this, then perhaps reconsider.

If you haven't kept some aggressive examples of tigers and browns, ask yourself if you're ready to keep an animal that can have you in a coma within less than four minutes. If you have, then you don't need advice over the internet.

Aaron.


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## ecosnake (Nov 24, 2008)

OK well I try to post a more acceptable post,

Inlands are a highly dangerous hot, some are dog tame and some just want to rip your arm off (so to speak) unfortunately you don’t know which personality your likely to get, and is your experience up to scratch with that? Austherp is correct with try working with other hots although "browns" I would throw in the same category as the inlands, RRB’s big angry tigers, spotted blacks, mulga’s are all good starter hots. The reason I asked why you want them is because I breed them and I just don’t sell them to anyone that would be very irresponsible of me to do so.


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## kensai (Nov 24, 2008)

I cannot agree more, taipans are not a learner snake, this is one instance where I think SA licencing got it right, you have to of had at least 2 years keeping other elapids before youy can keep taipans.


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## elapid68 (Nov 25, 2008)

Most reputable breeders of Inlands wont sell these critters to people unless they know the person has had plenty of experence with other hots.
These snakes will upset your day real quick, fast and in a hurry unless you show them the respect they deserve.
Get some practice playing with a medium to large Browns on a 30-35 deg C day and only once you've mastered that should you even contemplate looking at Inlands.
Just because anyone with an Advanced Licence can have them, it doesn't mean they should have them.
Personally, I've been handling hots for quite a few years, both captives and wild, but my Inlands on more than one occasion have left me breaking into a cold sweat.


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## Benjamin (Nov 25, 2008)

Hi, 
on the left uppon, there is my smaler female, down there is my bigger female and under there on the right side, there is my male.


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## paleoherp (Nov 25, 2008)

it took 10yrs for a reputable breeder to hand me my first elapid, and although I have about 5 years experience with them I haven't kept any for over 10 years. now that my kids are older I will be going back into elapids, I certainly wouldn't be starting with a Taipan though.
Take the advice of the more experienced elapid handlers who have already posted and start with something more suitable for a beginner. The fact that you refer to them as pets is a bit of a worry


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## aoife (Nov 25, 2008)

lovely enclosures Benjamin (sorry for the off topic post)


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## Benjamin (Nov 25, 2008)

The enclosures are 160x60x40cm, you know?
Cheers
Benjamin


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## m.punja (Nov 25, 2008)

Yes Benajmin, them enclosures are very, very nice. I'll be getting some like that myself later this week and can't wait. 
Where does it say this is going to be his first elapid? I seem to have missed this part. I remember myself posting a similar question when I was new to APS just a few years ago and now I am shopping for some Taipans. However in the last few years I have had a lot of experience with both captive and wildcaught browns, blacks, tigers and copperheads including being the new owner of a very flighty bundaberg brown.
What sort of experience do you have with elapids?


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## [email protected] (Nov 25, 2008)

taipans , hmmmmmm............good luck dude...........hope all goes well. they are a very awsome snake.


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## baxtor (Nov 26, 2008)

paleoherp said:


> it took 10yrs for a reputable breeder to hand me my first elapid, and although I have about 5 years experience with them I haven't kept any for over 10 years. now that my kids are older I will be going back into elapids, I certainly wouldn't be starting with a Taipan though.
> Take the advice of the more experienced elapid handlers who have already posted and start with something more suitable for a beginner. The fact that you refer to them as pets is a bit of a worry


 
Most of what you say is fair enough but why would what he calls them be a worry. I refer to all my animals as "pets" including the elapids.


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## notechistiger (Nov 26, 2008)

Maybe paleoherp thought that muiks01 wanted to give his new taipan a cuddle


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## m.punja (Nov 27, 2008)

notechistiger said:


> Maybe paleoherp thought that muiks01 wanted to give his new taipan a cuddle


 

what's wrong with that?


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## redbellybite (Nov 27, 2008)

it makes me laugh when I read this ...I presume that if he is asking about inlands ,he would have alot of understanding about elapids and especially the hot species...it also blows me away how people seem to down grade the eastern browns ,when we KNOW their temprement and their capability as well as the toxic level of their venom ....hopefully I am correct and he has had plenty of experience with other elapid keeping and hopefully does a bit more homework before getting some ...goodluck and when you have your set up put up some pics .........but then again teenage rev heads own V8,s ....just because they have had a licence for a few years doesnt mean their capable of driving a performance car BUT THEY DO...:shock::shock::shock:


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## Veredus (Nov 27, 2008)

m.punja said:


> Where does it say this is going to be his first elapid? I seem to have missed this part. I remember myself posting a similar question when I was new to APS just a few years ago and now I am shopping for some Taipans.


 
This is the troubling line in his post..."I'm located in Victoria so getting a license to keep this snake isn't that hard." Seems to suggest a lack of respect for the snake due to the ease of obtaining a license for one. Though I could be wrong and he could be the world's greatest snake handler...


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## m.punja (Nov 27, 2008)

Veredus said:


> This is the troubling line in his post..."I'm located in Victoria so getting a license to keep this snake isn't that hard." Seems to suggest a lack of respect for the snake due to the ease of obtaining a license for one. Though I could be wrong and he could be the world's greatest snake handler...


 
may have had a license elsewhere and kept elapids for years, let his lic slip and now decided to get back into it  who knows really, s/he hasn't responded, might be a ghost :shock: Or a phantom post


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## Veredus (Nov 27, 2008)

Probably got bitten by a taipan:lol:


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## andyscott (Nov 27, 2008)

It just takes a few extra $$$s a year for an advanced licence in Vic.
Thats all you need to keep vens (Taipans, Browns, ect) and even Crocs.

I think its way to easy to become licenced to keep animals such as these in Vic.
I have over 20 years experiance keeping reptiles
and I handle wild vens quite often (Browns RBBS and Tigers).
Even I wouldnt keep a taipan in a cage at my place.


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## m.punja (Nov 27, 2008)

Each to their own Andy. I know people who have had a Taipan in their collection within six months of owning and handling their first ven and haven't had any problems at all. I think it isn't the ammount of years you've been dealing with them but more so the confidence and experience you have gained over that period of time. I'm not at all suggesting people to go out handle a ven and in six months time get a taipan, I completely aggree you should have a few years experience below you belt. It's easy to say Victoria's lic system is too easy to own dangerous reptiles but think of the people who already do own these reptiles, especially people interstate. They would be experienced keepers and know their reptiles and aren't just going to go handing them out to kids for halloween, they have a reputation to keep also so they will hopfully do their research before exporting to some newby surely. I've been keeping elapids for a few years now and there are still people interstate who wont deal with me because they don't know my abilities first hand and I don't know the people they want references from so such is life.


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## -Peter (Nov 27, 2008)

I remember talking to Tim Nias after he bred his inlands and passed the offspring on and how there where three bites within the first year or two. All on extremely experienced ven keepers.


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 27, 2008)

m.punja said:


> Each to their own Andy. I know people who have had a Taipan in their collection within six months of owning and handling their first ven and haven't had any problems at all. I think it isn't the ammount of years you've been dealing with them but more so the confidence and experience you have gained over that period of time. I'm not at all suggesting people to go out handle a ven and in six months time get a taipan, I completely aggree you should have a few years experience below you belt. It's easy to say Victoria's lic system is too easy to own dangerous reptiles but think of the people who already do own these reptiles, especially people interstate. They would be experienced keepers and know their reptiles and aren't just going to go handing them out to kids for halloween, they have a reputation to keep also so they will hopfully do their research before exporting to some newby surely. I've been keeping elapids for a few years now and there are still people interstate who wont deal with me because they don't know my abilities first hand and I don't know the people they want references from so such is life.



G'day mate,

You've got some good points. I too know of someone who bought Inlands 6 months into their elapid keeping career (probably the same person, who's attitude seems to have matured significantly recently). One thing to remember is that when the animal needed to be restrained for medical assistance they needed to call in a more experienced handler for help. Personally, I believe a competant elapid keeper should be able to personally do everything that is necessary (aside from the more complex of medical procedures) with an elapid with minimal outside assistance with large animals or intricate procedures. Anybody at all could keep a Death Adder as long as nothing went wrong, but as soon as it has a retained eye scale or tail tip the story changes. 

You're also right about how most experienced keepers won't sell animals to relatively new keepers. There is different levels to this...some won't sell any elapids to new keepers, some won't sell certain species and some will sell any species the new keeper is licenced to keep. Personally I subscribe to the second option...there's no way I will sell a Coastal Taipan to someone I don't know personally, but I wouldn't have a drama selling a Red Belly to someone who has the right attitude and permit.

Cheers


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## voodoo (Nov 28, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day mate,
> 
> there's no way I will sell a Coastal Taipan to someone I don't know personally, but I wouldn't have a drama selling a Red Belly to someone who has the right attitude and permit.
> 
> Cheers


 

Ahh, is that why you havent gotten back to me about selling me one of your Coastals.

I have to say if he really wants an inland, and the law allows him to keep one legally...let him get one. Hopefully one day the licencing bodies will wake up to them selves when they relise they litterally giving a loaded and deadly weapon to a person not experienced enough to handle it. 

Cheers
Dee


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 28, 2008)

G'day Dee,

Nah, I didn't get back to you because I don't even remember you asking  I don't have any for sale anyway.

I think anyone who has any experience with Parks and Wildlife know that they have about as much experience with elapids as I do with cooking, and I'm flat out making toast. The onus is on us keepers to maintain a level of sensibility when choosing who we distribute animals to, rather than taking some over-confident, under-skilled punters cash and turning a blind eye. I know I couldn't blame Parks for giving someone their permit prematurely if they were killed by a snake I sold them - I would blame myself.


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## redbellybite (Nov 28, 2008)

I would like to see anyone that buys a "HOT SPECIES" before purchase ,maybe the breeder could witness the handling skills of the wanna be new owner ..and judge from what you see ,,,its a hard one to answer and you cant go on age or experience, as we all know there are freaks(in a nice way) that seem to have a natural amazing knack with animals ,even though they have only been in the game for a few years ...in most cases your gut will tell you if you should sell or not ,but alas like everything you get the breeders that want to turn a buck so if its flashing a permit with the green go ahead ,they will make the deal ....


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## daniel1234 (Nov 28, 2008)

This is an interesting thread, been watching it as it pops up.

We had some one down here who died, I think from a taipan, recently.
This surprised me as I thought that anyone who kept vens would know how to treat such a bite, and at that stage I was still wondering why people do keep them (I can appreciate them now though for their colours and so forth, as I am appreciating all herps I don't own).

Would I be right in assuming that taipan bites have a small window for treatment, and can keepers not have antivenom at the ready the same way a person allergic to bees has adrenaline, or a diabetic who has injectable glucose? Was this guy just one of the yahoos you are all talking about? (edit: I know you proberbly don't know the guy, so don't really expect a reply to this bit).


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## moosenoose (Nov 28, 2008)

daniel1234 said:


> Would I be right in assuming that taipan bites have a small window for treatment, and can keepers not have antivenom at the ready the same way a person allergic to bees has adrenaline, or a diabetic who has injectable glucose? Was this guy just one of the yahoos you are all talking about? (edit: I know you proberbly don't know the guy, so don't really expect a reply to this bit).



From what I have gathered (with no great knowledge on the matter personally), mistakes with these animals won't be a walk in the park. Same with brownsnakes! Whilst you might get away with a bungle with a tiger or a copperhead, or similar...you can bet your bottom dollar if you don't do something FAST with a bite from a brown or a taipan, you're as good as history!

That said, I believe there was a fellow from North Queensland who survived a potentially fatal invenomation for hours unassisted because he administered the correct 1st aid treatment to the bite area. Which happened to be on a limb. I gather a bite to the torso would just about book you a trip to the morgue??


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## m.punja (Nov 28, 2008)

daniel1234 said:


> This is an interesting thread, been watching it as it pops up.
> 
> We had some one down here who died, I think from a taipan, recently.
> This surprised me as I thought that anyone who kept vens would know how to treat such a bite, and at that stage I was still wondering why people do keep them (I can appreciate them now though for their colours and so forth, as I am appreciating all herps I don't own).
> ...


 

Antivenom is expencive and has a life span of a year or something similar, Jonno will know. So no, keepers don't keep antivenom on hand for these two reasons and also, even with antivenom you are going to need some medical assistance. It is not something they just jab into you if you are biten and say sleep it off, it has to be timed right. A lot of snake bite victims that end up in hospital leave again without receiving antivenom. 
Imagine if you copper a dry bite then banged antivenom into you...don't sound like fun to me.


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## m.punja (Nov 28, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day mate,
> 
> I too know of someone who bought Inlands 6 months into their elapid keeping career (probably the same person, who's attitude seems to have matured significantly recently). One thing to remember is that when the animal needed to be restrained for medical assistance they needed to call in a more experienced handler for help. Personally, I believe a competant elapid keeper should be able to personally do everything that is necessary (aside from the more complex of medical procedures) with an elapid with minimal outside assistance with large animals or intricate procedures. Anybody at all could keep a Death Adder as long as nothing went wrong, but as soon as it has a retained eye scale or tail tip the story changes.
> Cheers


 
Can't aggree with you more Jonno. Especially with the Death Adder comment, however I don't see any harm in a keeper asking for assistance when dealing with such elapids as Browns and Taipans, or even Tigers. I am confident in my abilities to look after all my elapids and have restrained about 90% of them, however even as confident as I am I still don't deal with them when I am home alone. Even if I am calling in my mum to stand around while I manually slough a Death Adder or inspect an eye cap on a tiger at least I have someone there should something go wrong. And if I can get in another handler or keeper while I am probing browns or tigers I will, not because I'm no confident it's just reasuring having someone else there who can help if need be.


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## daniel1234 (Nov 28, 2008)

m.punja said:


> Antivenom is expencive and has a life span of a year or something similar, Jonno will know. So no, keepers don't keep antivenom on hand for these two reasons and also, even with antivenom you are going to need some medical assistance. It is not something they just jab into you if you are biten and say sleep it off, it has to be timed right. A lot of snake bite victims that end up in hospital leave again without receiving antivenom.
> Imagine if you copper a dry bite then banged antivenom into you...don't sound like fun to me.


 
I take it antivenom isn't without it's side effects and requires more than just a jab!

Yeh I kinda suspected it was not cheap, like most medical/medicine products (a simple shot of glucose will set you back $50 here, antivenom has got to be more than that and if you have more than one kind of snake well $$$$!) Just figured if it was that simple, and a bite was super quick to take effect you'd want stuff like that around, Man, the answer is proberbly right under my nose (literately) in one of my textbooks, I'll look it up after I finish doing what I am supposed to be doing


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## notechistiger (Nov 28, 2008)

daniel1234 said:


> I take it antivenom isn't without it's side effects and requires more than just a jab!



I believe it's quite common to have an allergic to the antivenom, similar to a bee sting. Imagine that. Bitten by your pet taipan, you self inject the antivenom, and you have an allergic reaction to it anyway. In this case, you'd be dead no matter what.

And m.punja, there's nothing at all wrong with it


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## Inlandtaipan078 (Nov 29, 2008)

lol jonno hmm toast
there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit


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## Australis (Nov 29, 2008)

Your not doomed if you have an allergic reaction to the antivenom, although you may wish you were dead.
Insects kill more Australians anyways ha.


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## elapid68 (Nov 29, 2008)

Inlandtaipan078 said:


> lol jonno hmm toast
> there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit


 
Melbourne Hospital has Taipan antivenom. If you need it you'll be not only getting a bill from the hospital for the treatment but also the zoo because it's actually owned by them incase their staff get tagged.


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## waruikazi (Nov 29, 2008)

moosenoose said:


> From what I have gathered (with no great knowledge on the matter personally), mistakes with these animals won't be a walk in the park. Same with brownsnakes! Whilst you might get away with a bungle with a tiger or a copperhead, or similar...you can bet your bottom dollar if you don't do something FAST with a bite from a brown or a taipan, you're as good as history!
> 
> That said, I believe there was a fellow from North Queensland who survived a potentially fatal invenomation for hours unassisted because he administered the correct 1st aid treatment to the bite area. Which happened to be on a limb. I gather a bite to the torso would just about book you a trip to the morgue??



I know a guy who had to do first aid for a fierce snake bite on the chest, with pressure bandages correctly applied and applied quickly the victim showed no signs of envenomation for the 7 hours it took to get to hospital. I would still much rather a bite on any limb than the torso/face but they aren't death sentences like people make them out to be.


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## m.punja (Nov 29, 2008)

Inlandtaipan078 said:


> lol jonno hmm toast
> there's no western taipan antivenom in victoria becouse it's not native here it is flown down from SA/ QLD at $1500 roughly per unit


 

Ballarat also has antivenom.


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## Inlandtaipan078 (Nov 29, 2008)

I stand corrected:?
Cheers guys.


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## notechistiger (Nov 29, 2008)

Australis said:


> Your not doomed if you have an allergic reaction to the antivenom, although you may wish you were dead.



If you were at home with no medical assistance available?


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## junglepython2 (Nov 29, 2008)

notechistiger said:


> If you were at home with no medical assistance available?


 
You would almost always be in a hospital setting when it is administered. As keepers don't keep a supply of antivenom at home.


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## notechistiger (Nov 29, 2008)

I know that, I was still referring to my scenario at the top of the page.


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## gravitation (Nov 29, 2008)

Wow imagine me with an elapid, i'd get struck on the mouth for trying to give it a smooch.


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## -Peter (Nov 29, 2008)

If you keep venomous snakes you should have protocols in place. If you have an allergy and you are aware of this condition you will have the appropriate treatment at hand. You will have bandages instantly accessable where the bite took place no matter where that is. You will be aware enough to remove any jewellry and restrictive clothing. You will have a phone nearby to ring 000 and a nice comfy spot to lay down and wait with you and the bite immobilised. You wil have been in the practice of only handling your snakes in a safe area that can be locked down immediately in case you are either unable to return the snake to an enclosure or bag or the snake has gotten loose. You really dont want to leave family and friends there worried about loose snakes and you shouldn't be running around trying to secure them. You should have a written procedure of what to do and who to call in case your snakes need attention if the rest of your household aren't up for the task.
You really dont want to be worrying about other things if you are bitten. Plan ahead.
Feel free to add to this.


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## m.punja (Dec 2, 2008)

Sounds right to me Peter. Well said


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## horsesrule (Dec 2, 2008)

elapid68 said:


> Melbourne Hospital has Taipan antivenom. If you need it you'll be not only getting a bill from the hospital for the treatment but also the zoo because it's actually owned by them incase their staff get tagged.


 

There will be no bill if its a state hospital.

Royal Melbourne is a state hospital.


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## horsesrule (Dec 2, 2008)

I think if this person wants one let him/her get one. 

Its not up to us to make decisions for them. If they get bitten then thats there problem not yours not mine and not the sellers.

In Victoria most people who keep snakes without licence keep venemous snakes because thats really all we have unless you go right to the border.

If this person has the proper licence then i see no reason not to sell to them.


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## notechistiger (Dec 2, 2008)

Ooh, I know a good reason! Because it could kill them? You could then go further and say that a snake biting and killing its owner would give snakes a bad name (worse then what they have now). Jeeze, A Current Affair would have a field day...


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## horsesrule (Dec 2, 2008)

notechistiger said:


> Ooh, I know a good reason! Because it could kill them? You could then go further and say that a snake biting and killing its owner would give snakes a bad name (worse then what they have now). Jeeze, A Current Affair would have a field day...


 
Sorry i dont agree, if they do get killed thats there fault and there problem. 

Besides there more likely to die in a car crash or get run over. So lets keep it in perspective.


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## Benjamin (Dec 2, 2008)

It´s right, to know where the antivenom is
but I don´t understand the discussion about the antivenom, so long... I´ve had venomous snakes since 18 years. My "pets" where since this time snakes of the genera Naja, Echis, Bitis, Bothrops, Crotalus, Zhaoermia, Dendroaspis, Oxyuranus, and some more. Some of this snakes are very, very dangerous! Some of them are more dangerous then Taipans. But I can´t understand the hype about O. microlepidotus. Fiercies are in the youth real devils, that´s right. They are very nervous, and agressively against everything. But when they come grown up, they are very relaxed
Now look at the picture







I´ve seen, the most enclosures of you are able to opening in the upon. The most predators in nature are coming from upside. The snake is thinking there´s coming a predator, and is nervous.
My enclosures are able to opening from the frontside, you see.
When they have a box for going in, they are more relaxed

I´ve even not bitten this 18 years, thinking about
Cheers 
Benjamin


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## AustHerps (Dec 2, 2008)

Horsesrule,

Everytime someone gets bitten, our rights to own venomous snakes is threatened. This also has the potential to impact an individual's rights to own any native animal. Therefore, a bite is your problem, my problem, and the victim's problem.

As for all treatment at a state hospital being free, that is only the case if the hospital owns the medicine it is administering. Melbourne Zoo is the bailor of the AV, whereas the Royal Melbourne is the bailee. If you use the taipan AV at the Royal, make no mistake, you'll get a bill for it.

Aaron.


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## horsesrule (Dec 2, 2008)

AustHerps said:


> Horsesrule,
> 
> Everytime someone gets bitten, our rights to own venomous snakes is threatened. This also has the potential to impact an individual's rights to own any native animal. Therefore, a bite is your problem, my problem, and the victim's problem.
> 
> ...


 

I worked in the healthcare field within government for well over a decade and i am certain that they cant bill you legally. They may try but you would have every legal right to refuse to pay.

Its the hospitals resposibility if a state hospital to pay Melbourne Zoo not the person being treated.

State hospitals = free healthcare


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## baxtor (Dec 2, 2008)

horsesrule said:


> I worked in the healthcare field within government for well over a decade and i am certain that they cant bill you legally. They may try but you would have every legal right to refuse to pay.
> 
> Its the hospitals resposibility if a state hospital to pay Melbourne Zoo not the person being treated.
> 
> State hospitals = free healthcare


I agree. The antivenom needs to be obtained by the hospital and I do not see why it would make any difference whether they aquire it from CSL or the Zoo or some other source, it is still going to have to get it in order to administer it. I know as far as country Vic is concerned there is a system of sharing in place between hospitals within regions.


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## wizz (Dec 2, 2008)

well i think there should be classes of licensing from 1 to 5 like in most states..i think of it as if you can sell a young kid a fierce snake and he gets bitten and dies then all that responsibility is on you as you were the one that handed over the lethal weapon ......were if we had 1 to 5 licensing that kid would have to go through all the steps and requirements to prove himself capable of handling such a venomous snake....one of my good mates got bitten by an eastern brown and had to go through 10 viles of antivenom it was not pretty especially when serum sickness kicked in and the side affects last for your whole life ......you should at least have your venomous license for a few years before you are allowed to buy fiercies and *coastal tais* and browns.........so for now we just need to be responsible keepers!!!!!


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## baxtor (Dec 2, 2008)

wizz said:


> well i think there should be classes of licensing from 1 to 5 like in most states..i think of it as if you can sell a young kid a fierce snake and he gets bitten and dies then all that responsibility is on you as you were the one that handed over the lethal weapon ......were if we had 1 to 5 licensing that kid would have to go through all the steps and requirements to prove himself capable of handling such a venomous snake....one of my good mates got bitten by an eastern brown and had to go through 10 viles of antivenom it was not pretty especially when serum sickness kicked in and the side affects last for your whole life ......you should at least have your venomous license for a few years before you are allowed to buy fiercies and *coastal tais* and browns.........so for now we just need to be responsible keepers!!!!!


 
I doubt anybody is going to sell a "young kid" a fierce snake anyway but I believe we all need to take responsibility for our own actions and not try to offload those responsibilities onto somebody else when things go wrong. There are plenty of young kids writing themselves off every weekend pursuing other activities and at the end of the day it is their choice and THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, it should not be any different if they choose to keep potentially dangerous reptiles.


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## m.punja (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm seeing points for and against. If you are looking at it as being your responisibilty when selling a snake to someone (which I do partly agree with) then would it be a sales persons responsibilty when handing over the key's to a V8 or sport's car to an inexperienced young driver? True you can say that's why licenses are there but it still happens and kids still die in over powered vehicles and no car-yard sales person is held responsible.
horsesrule, unfortuently when reptiles are involved common people don't see perspective. They see a great big long slivery deadly animal that would be better off chopped in two. So they don't see why we want them as pets. So they don't care. They don't compare it. They don't look outside the box and they don't say, serves him right. They complain and the media gets involved and chinese whispers spread and before you know it your resting from a bite and the TV is saying you have died from an exotic snake bite. This does effect us all because they then review the licensing and think 'well...do people really need venomous snakes as pets?'
They should change the laws in vic or monitor them more carefully. 

The government is constantly changing driving rules and regulations in a bid to keep the death toll down, you think if captive pet snake bites rise and the media get's wind they wont change rules and regulations to keep the numbers down? Car's are a nesessity snakes are not so they will have a good foot to stand on to make it a hell of a lot harder to keep elapids or to ilegalise them completely.


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## baxtor (Dec 3, 2008)

m.punja said:


> They should change the laws in vic or monitor them more carefully.
> 
> The government is constantly changing driving rules and regulations in a bid to keep the death toll down, you think if captive pet snake bites rise and the media get's wind they wont change rules and regulations to keep the numbers down? Car's are a nesessity snakes are not so they will have a good foot to stand on to make it a hell of a lot harder to keep elapids or to ilegalise them completely.


 
Your argument for changes to the laws in victoria seems to be based on an assumption that there is some sort of problem. Where are the stats that suggest that is the case? There is certainly not much in the way of news items to support that view.
Driving rules change in response to a problem either perceived or real but what you are suggesting is that the rules be changed before a problem arises in order to avoid the rules being changed :?:?:?


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## m.punja (Dec 3, 2008)

I didn't mean it that way. Someone said it's not our problem if someone else is biten. However, if inexperienced people are getting their hands on browns and tais and are constantly getting biten then this will rise a problem and they will do something about it. I think they should change the rules a little at least JMO


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## horsesrule (Dec 3, 2008)

Sorry i dont agree with the laws being ameded in Victoria if anything i would push for them to be more freely open like South Australia.

We dont need more laws in Vic with licencing. We do need them to start letting us keep many more species that are not on the lists though.


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## baxtor (Dec 4, 2008)

i think one major problem with a grading system based on experience is that even though a certain species of snake may be classified regarding it's expected level of aggression there are many of that species that may be far more or less aggressive than what is expected, so we could end up with somebody who has plenty of experience (based on time) with pussy cat individual elapids who moves on to the next level and ends up with a phsyco snake he can't handle.
We could also have the relatively inexperienced (again time based) keeper who just happened to have phsyco from the beginning who would have no problem at all progressing.
I have been into tigers, c/heads and rbbs for close to 40 years and am very comfortable with them but I have never kept a taipan and my first would still be that, my first and if it turned out to be a handfull would all my years with my local species actually be an advantage or a disadvantage?


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## moosenoose (Dec 4, 2008)

The trouble is keeping non-state-native animals! Why should state hospitals have to foot the bill for private keepers?? I think keepers of exotic-to-state animals can count their lucky stars that these hospital/s do stock antivenin primarily for the zoo!

Anyway, what next?? Ban bushwalking :lol:


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