# Reptile rack advise



## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi I was thinking of making a reptile rack with around 9 bays I haven't started yet as I need to get rid of my marine set up to make space my question is would I be able to put a power point for each bay could I do that and connect the power points to go into a cord which I would plug into power point in wall I hope I have said it right help would be appreciated thank you


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## Mike11 (Apr 26, 2013)

I am not an electrician, but from what I know... 
Most standard power points are rated at 10amps or 2400W. If you have an individual socket for each bay you must not plug in an appliance drawing more than 260W each otherwise you will overload the PowerPoint and cable and probably burn something.

Again this is just from my limited knowledge so check with an actual electrician before you go ahead with anything.
Post some pics of the progress as you do it?


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

I need to finish my other projects first but I'm hoping to do it soon I think the heat mats I was looking at is like 7w so that's like 63w might be able to install a couple power points on top hmmm just on the drawing board for this one


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## saximus (Apr 26, 2013)

Punctuation is your friend .
Any particular reason you want an individual power point for every bay? It sounds like you would end up with a spaghetti configuration of wiring and require an unsafe number of power boards to make it work. I would suggest speaking to an electrician so you can explain in person what you want and see if they think it is viable. Apart from being illegal, it would be dangerous to try to attempt something this complicated on your own.


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

Is there a reason you are going to use multiple heat mats instead of a single or a couple of heat cords? What sort of snakes is the rack for and will it be for hatchlings or adult snakes? Saximus has also given you some really good advice.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

Maybe cause I didn't use punctuation it seems hard. It doesn't seem that hard I've changed a power point before. I would make sure it's all plugged in while I'm doing it.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

I was thinking more like geckos for this one and once I fill it up get the snakes.


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

dragondragon said:


> Maybe cause I didn't use punctuation it seems hard. It doesn't seem that hard I've changed a power point before. I would make sure it's all plugged in while I'm doing it.


It is illegal unless you are licensed and although the wiring itself may seem simple to you there are rules that need to be followed that you may not be aware of that do have an effect on long term safety.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

I understand the rules I just didn't think it would hurt anyone if I did it myself if I was to do it safe.


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## wokka (Apr 26, 2013)

I use power boards on the back of the rack.
For 9 shelves say 3 of 4 outlet boards spaced 3 shelves apart.
This gives flexability in how you cofigure the thermstats and heat scources. Some can be turned off when not in use or you can run all through the same thermostator timer or have them all seperate. At about $1 an outlet they are affordable and you dont need an electrician. Most also have overload protection.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

It's only $1 for a four outlet power board?


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> It is illegal unless you are licensed and although the wiring itself may seem simple to you there are rules that need to be followed that you may not be aware of that do have an effect on long term safety.


How many DIY's do we see with bad connections. With things like broken strands, untwisted and perhaps not folded over. While replacing a power point is simple, it's the little things that result in a bad connection creating a hotspot and burning down the house... If the outlet was installed correctly in the first place the terminal screws would have bit into the wire and you'd need to re-strip it to fit a newoutlet too...
Funny how people believe in getting a license to keep reptiles. But not in getting a licenes to do electrical work :shock:


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

dragondragon said:


> I understand the rules I just didn't think it would hurt anyone if I did it myself if I was to do it safe.


It is also against site rules to advise someone to break the law. I asked about what you are keeping in there because it may make a difference in the way to set it up. Maybe have a look through the rack building threads for some more ideas as well, I think there are quite a few on here.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

Alright no worries ok so in theory if I got an electrician to do this for me it would be fine then. My brothers father In law might still have his ticket.


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

I am not sure of the legalities of wiring in that manor and would have to check up in as3000 as I do not usually do house wiring but from a technical stand point it would work mate. Please heed the advice about not doing the wiring yourself.


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## wokka (Apr 26, 2013)

dragondragon said:


> It's only $1 for a four outlet power board?


My calculations are $1 per outlet x 4 outlets = $4 per board, but then again I went to school 50 years ago.


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## champagne (Apr 26, 2013)

dragondragon said:


> I understand the rules I just didn't think it would hurt anyone if I did it myself if I was to do it safe.


 if anything happens and the house burns down insurance will not cover it and you will be liable for the damages ''save a few dollars wiring your own enclosures and spend hundreds of thousands rebuilding the house'' accidents happen don't risk it.


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## nonamesleft (Apr 26, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> if anything happens and the house burns down insurance will not cover it and you will be liable for the damages ''save a few dollars wiring your own enclosures and spend hundreds of thousands rebuilding the house'' accidents happen don't risk it.



The risk is not just financial, your own life and worse the life of others may be at risk.


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## wokka (Apr 26, 2013)

dragondragon said:


> Hi I was thinking of making a reptile rack with around 9 bays I haven't started yet as I need to get rid of my marine set up to make space my question is would I be able to put a power point for each bay could I do that and connect the power points to go into a cord which I would plug into power point in wall I hope I have said it right help would be appreciated thank you


This configuration sounds like an off the shelf power board. Perfectly legal and works fine. If you need you can plug power board into power board to increase the number of outlets but dont exceed the power rating of the boar or power circuit. I have a power board plugging into a powerboard ,plugging into a power board ......... all around the ceiling perimeter of my snake rooms. That gives three outlets every 1.2 meters so there is always a convenient power outlet. I only run 13 watt matts so even 100 matts isn't going to overload the circuit.


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

wokka said:


> This configuration sounds like an off the shelf power board. Perfectly legal and works fine. If you need you can plug power board into power board to increase the number of outlets but dont exceed the power rating of the boar or power circuit. I have a power board plugging into a powerboard ,plugging into a power board ......... all around the ceiling perimeter of my snake rooms. That gives three outlets every 1.2 meters so there is always a convenient power outlet. I only run 13 watt matts so even 100 matts isn't going to overload the circuit.


technically this is correct. However most work places around Australia have banned plugging power boards into power boards. And for good reason. The problem in this instance isn't overloading the circuit. But rather the combined effect of having so manny poor joints in the same circuit. The fire risk becomes far greater because of this. I strongly advise to NEVER plug a power board into another power board.
Do the other electricians agree with this?


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

Snowman said:


> technically this is correct. However most work places around Australia have banned plugging power boards into power boards. And for good reason. The problem in this instance isn't overloading the circuit. But rather the combined effect of having so manny poor joints in the same circuit. The fire risk becomes far greater because of this. I strongly advise to NEVER plug a power board into another power board.
> Do the other electricians agree with this?


Yes I agree . Do you know the rules about wiring mutiple power points into a cupboard then plugged into a power point ?


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Yes I agree . Do you know the rules about wiring mutiple power points into a cupboard then plugged into a power point ?


I'm not upto scratch on domestic regs. But the way I see it he is creating a few outlets, that anything can be plugged into. It would seem this is closer to fixed wiring than an appliance. I'd find it hard to believe it is legal and I doubt an electrician would do such a thing. I know I wouldn't. . The only method the op should consider, is a single powerboard plugged into the wall to supply his rack. 
There is probably no need to reinvent the wheel. And the methods people currently use of a 9m heat cord, that is used to heat several shelves, is both cost efficient and safer than having several heating devices plugged in for each shelf. 
Perhaps some more thought into the design is needed.


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

wokka said:


> I have a power board plugging into a powerboard ,plugging into a power board ......... all around the ceiling perimeter of my snake rooms. That gives three outlets every 1.2 meters so there is always a convenient power outlet. I only run 13 watt matts so even 100 matts isn't going to overload the circuit.



The good news of this method is that it works.
The bad news of this method is that when/if it stops working it will most likely result in a fire.

There are quite a few factors to consider that will derate the circuit, perhaps to a level where it would be considered overloaded, despite being well under 10amps. Heat and poor connections would be some of these.


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## wokka (Apr 26, 2013)

Snowman said:


> technically this is correct. However most work places around Australia have banned plugging power boards into power boards. And for good reason. The problem in this instance isn't overloading the circuit. But rather the combined effect of having so manny poor joints in the same circuit. The fire risk becomes far greater because of this. I strongly advise to NEVER plug a power board into another power board.
> Do the other electricians agree with this?


Firstly, I am not a sparky so dont take my advice. I dont disgree with your recommendation for a public workplace which is a different situation to a private snake room . However the mechanical hardware is the same in the case of a power point and three pin plug or a power board and a three pin plug. If you repeat a process which has a chance of being wrong the chance of getting it wrong increases, so the more power boards or power points the more chance of poor connetions , particularly if you connect and reconnect which may wear out the spring metal contacts in the female plug. Maybe at each connection you could get voltage drop but does that matter on low wattage equipment? Either a three pin plug and point is a safe connection or it isn't? I assume because they are publically sold they are effective, and go through some sort of audited testing regime, but am quite happy to stand corrected.


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

wokka said:


> Firstly, I am not a sparky so dont take my advice. I dont disgree with your recommendation for a public workplace which is a different situation to a private snake room . However the mechanical hardware is the same in the case of a power point and three pin plug or a power board and a three pin plug. If you repeat a process which has a chance of being wrong the chance of getting it wrong increases, so the more power boards or power points the more chance of poor connetions , particularly if you connect and reconnect which may wear out the spring metal contacts in the female plug. Maybe at each connection you could get voltage drop but does that matter on low wattage equipment? Either a three pin plug and point is a safe connection or it isn't? I assume because they are publically sold they are effective, and go through some sort of audited testing regime, but am quite happy to stand corrected.



I disagree.

Say that the joint where the power board plugs into the power board is bad. It creates a hot spot... Not so bad if it was just a 13w mat plugged into it. But if that power board is loaded up or if that power board also has some bad joints or faulty equipment attached then the current being drawn through that first bad joint is increased and it is a lot hotter than it would be if it was being used as intended for a single appliance to be plugged into that outlet on the power board.
In other words the joins become compiled where as one power board per wall outlet the joins are not adding up to create a problem.


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## wokka (Apr 26, 2013)

Snowman said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Say that the joint where the power board plugs into the power board is bad. It creates a hot spot... Not so bad if it was just a 13w mat plugged into it. But if that power board is loaded up or if that power board also has some bad joints or faulty equipment attached then the current being drawn through that first bad joint is increased and it is a lot hotter than it would be if it was being used as intended for a single appliance to be plugged into that outlet on the power board.
> In other words the joins become compiled where as one power board per wall outlet the joins are not adding up to create a problem.


Like i said, I stand corrected and after giving a rant in an earleir thread about those who dont know keeping their opinions to themselves then i just might take my own advice.


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

wokka said:


> Like i said, I stand corrected and after giving a rant in an earleir thread about those who dont know keeping their opinions to themselves then i just might take my own advice.


It's an interesting topic. And one that many people can learn from. I think the biggest problem with electricity is that you can have something working fine for years. Then oneday from a build up of carbon or heat etc it can just go bad. I've seen some pretty crazy things as an electrician. Everything from a nail in someone's mains (to steal electricity) to a completely melted fan switch. And I don't even work on houses for a job  
There is a very high chance that you will never have a problem with plugging power boards into powerboards. But there is definitely a chance it could go bad as well. I've had a powerboard catch on fire on a fish tank when I was a teenager. Luckily I was home and smelt the smoke. The PVC burning stank... It was just the result if a faulty powerboard. It's impossible to get around using powerboards. I still use them. But keep an eye on them. I don't trust them at all!


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## andynic07 (Apr 26, 2013)

Snowman said:


> It's an interesting topic. And one that many people can learn from. I think the biggest problem with electricity is that you can have something working fine for years. Then oneday from a build up of carbon or heat etc it can just go bad. I've seen some pretty crazy things as an electrician. Everything from a nail in someone's mains (to steal electricity) to a completely melted fan switch. And I don't even work on houses for a job
> There is a very high chance that you will never have a problem with plugging power boards into powerboards. But there is definitely a chance it could go bad as well. I've had a powerboard catch on fire on a fish tank when I was a teenager. Luckily I was home and smelt the smoke. The PVC burning stank... It was just the result if a faulty powerboard. It's impossible to get around using powerboards. I still use them. But keep an eye on them. I don't trust them at all!


I look at the odds mate. The odds are probably 1% that things will go wrong, this does not seem very high and in all honesty it isn't. But let's took at what can happen in that one percent , you get a bad joint and it heats up and catches fire and burns your collection of reptiles and half your house burn down. The cost of your insurance excess is maybe $350 or more. That is a lot more expensive than paying $100 for a wiring job.


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## Snowman (Apr 26, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I look at the odds mate. The odds are probably 1% that things will go wrong, this does not seem very high and in all honesty it isn't. But let's took at what can happen in that one percent , you get a bad joint and it heats up and catches fire and burns your collection of reptiles and half your house burn down. The cost of your insurance excess is maybe $350 or more. That is a lot more expensive than paying $100 for a wiring job.


Yeah that's how I see it too. I guess we have the fortunate perspective in our trades of seeing what electricity is capable of when things go bad.


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## Zeusy (Apr 26, 2013)

haha i'm an auto elec, i don't have to deal with your crazy high voltages!! It all comes down to how any work site does a risk score analysis on a job as part of their JSEA's etc. Just because the "likelihood" is low, the "impact" or damage would be major or even catastrophic, which would make the use of daisy chaining powerboards banned.


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## dragondragon (Apr 26, 2013)

I haven't really check out the heat cords you've been talking about so maybe ill think about getting those.


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