# Burnt Snakes, why?



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi guys and girls, i have a friend... well not sure if i should still class her as a friend after what i think she has done... Shes burnt 2 snakes! An olive and a coastal carpet. She claims the burns happened because of heat mats, i can sort of believe it with the carpet but not the olive, pics will show why- shes burnt on her head! Please people no hate comments directed at me, the snakes are now in my care but on thursday are being sent to the best vet in QLD. What i am asking is everyones opinion on how these burns could've occured, i honestly dont think its from a heat mat- thats my opinion. She has had problems with drugs over the years so maybe hurting snakes is a side affect or makes her feel better? i dont know ive never done drugs, i think shes threw the coastal carpet on a fire and burnt the olive with a cigaret... Like i said thats my opinion and please no hate comments directed at me. Thank you for your participation guys and girls. (Will post photos in separate comments).


----------



## GeckoJosh (Sep 20, 2011)

:shock:


----------



## Tassie97 (Sep 20, 2011)

ewww could it be from coiling around a heat globe?


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

View attachment 218669

View attachment 218673

View attachment 218674


----------



## Tassie97 (Sep 20, 2011)

didnt work


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

More pics guys, click on the attachments! And nope not at all Tassie97, all she had in the enclosure was a heat mat, a hide and fake grass!


----------



## Tassie97 (Sep 20, 2011)

u sure? heat mat must have caught on fire or something then D:


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

View attachment 218675


----------



## gosia (Sep 20, 2011)

Cant open the 3 attachments - can u post in advance?


----------



## CamdeJong (Sep 20, 2011)

Invalid attachments. If the burns are all located on the belly it's likely to be heat mat related but if there are small burns that look like cigarette burns then that's probably the case. I had a thermostat fail and cause one of my coastals severe burns overnight, looked like that but to a much lesser extent. If the burns are suspect that woman needs to be checked out so she doesn't hurt other animals or even people.

Edit: I just saw the olive's head, there's no way that's accidental.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

Mat with no or faulty thermostat?

Your comments RE: fire and cigarrete are quite specific, anything your not telling us?


----------



## traceylee (Sep 20, 2011)

That is horrible 
I'm glad they are now out of her care.


----------



## GeckoJosh (Sep 20, 2011)

That carpet will be lucky to survive, it must be in so much pain, is it already being treated?


----------



## Bel03 (Sep 20, 2011)

I hope it was accidental, & not done for some other sick reason.......that is terrible! I wont even hazard a guess as to how they came about, however that burn on top of the head definately looks very similiar to that of a cigarette.......the poor snakes! Im glad they are safe now.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

The head wound could be from escape attempts or somehow getting the head under a heat source.

It also looks relatively clean with signs of healing


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Nope no thermostats and Elapedae1 ive said everything i know, if there is anything else its what shes not telling me, i say fire and cigaretts because she is a very i dont know how to say.... different person...


----------



## Serpentess (Sep 20, 2011)

Far out... Those poor, poor snakes. I hope she never has another snake (or anything else for that matter) in her care again... That's just ridiculous.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

I would say they are accidental though obviously avoidable burns. The carpet looks in a bad way unfortunately.

I would give my friend the benefit of the doubt and be trying to offer some support for their obvious probems.


----------



## mje772003 (Sep 20, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Nope no thermostats and Elapedae1 ive said everything i know, if there is anything else its what shes not telling me, i say fire and cigaretts because she is a very i dont know how to say.... different person...



I think thats terrible I hope DERM make a visit!!!! Take the licence away from that person they don't deserve lovely animals like that. The burn on the top of the head of the Olive is a cigarette or cigar burn OMG Olives are so nice and placid I hope karma gets this person.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

mje772003 said:


> I think thats terrible I hope DERM make a visit!!!! Take the licence away from that person they don't deserve lovely animals like that. The burn on the top of the head of the Olive is a cigarette or cigar burn OMG Olives are so nice and placid I hope karma gets this person.



How can you say this for sure?

Has the carpet had previous injury?


----------



## marcmarc (Sep 20, 2011)

I don't think the Olive's burn is from a cigarette, it isn't a perfect circle and there is healing evident on the outer edge of the burn, so it isn't a new thing.

I would have suggested heat bulb but as you mentioned only heat mats are used I am stumped.
What does your friend have to say about this? If this was all intentional your friend really needs some hardcore help. I am not being sarcastic or "read between the lines" either.
I hope the snakes both pull through.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Ok, 1- i have offered her support but the snakes both kept getting worse + she also gave one to me that was a het albino olive that she or her kids ha stood on and crushed the ribs!
2- We dont have DERM here we have EPA, im not too sure of what they can and cant do...
3- She purchased both snakes off me and they were both in perfect healthy condition, all my reptiles have always been in well condition never had a problem with any.
4- Thank you to the people giving me ideas on what it could be, also just another fact- the only sort of heating device she has are heatmats, no globes no thermostats JUST heat mats and i highly doubt that the olive went under the heat mat as if that was the case her whole head would be burned.
5- Any more help, support or ideas would be great, im really onto this one i want to know exactly what has happened to these poor snakes as she still has a hatchie bredli and an adult spotted monitor that she CAUGHT! She says she will be letting it go tomorrow and i will be making sure of it.


----------



## Mace699 (Sep 20, 2011)

If it's done intetnionally it's horrible i can't imagine how painful the belly burn would have been. good on you for stepping in and lokking after them. can i ask have you seen the snakes original set ups was the heat mat inside or underneathe the enclosure?


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Also the het albino olive python is currently in my care too.

Mace699- Yes i have seen their enclosures as i go their regularly, they are all full of poo and very dirty  The heat mat is inside the enclosure. She has just put the heat mat on top of the fake grass then a hide straight on top of the heat mat- would not listen to me when i told her not to


----------



## Khagan (Sep 20, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Yes i have seen their enclosures as i go their regularly, they are all full of poo and very dirty



In that case the carpets injuries could even be scalerot? The olives head is a puzzling one though .


----------



## cement (Sep 20, 2011)

Firstly, unless you are told by the person what happened, stop guessing and asking for reasons, you will never know so that is a waste of energy.

Secondly, are you sure that the coastal is a burn and not scale rot?

Thirdly, the olive will not need treatment for that wound. If you want you can put something on it but it will heal easily and may leave a small scar, nothing to worry about. It will be gone after a few sheds. There is no way that is a cigar burn as it has affected the scales in front of the wound and the eyes as well.

By all means get them checked by the vet, but there is no point wondering what happened.... it is what it is ... just concentrate on doing what needs to be done to help them.


----------



## marcmarc (Sep 20, 2011)

I think I may remember something about the Het Olive on another thread. I think I have heard enough to ask you suggest your friend does not look after *any* animals, it is plainly obvious a few basic requirements are unable to be kept. More importantly, animals are being harmed due to her various inabilities.
Good on you for trying to do the right thing by the animals.


----------



## alrightknight (Sep 20, 2011)

I fail to believe a heat mat could get so hot it would cause such severe burns, you think it would have be melting the plastic to do something like that.


----------



## RickLeekong (Sep 20, 2011)

the circle burn on the head has got to be a cigarette burn


----------



## traceylee (Sep 20, 2011)

What did your friend say the cause of the burns were from?
She must have some idea?


----------



## phantomreptiles (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh I hope the snakes are ok - my only comment on the burns, is one can/could be an accident - hmmm two...let's hope you can get all reptiles off this person and she never owns again. The RSPCA are pretty hopeless, but that's what they are suppose to be there for.....


----------



## GeckoJosh (Sep 20, 2011)

RickLeekong said:


> the circle burn on the head has got to be a cigarette burn


Based on what?


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Well I'm 100% sure it is NOT scalerot. And she didn't even know how the burns were caused- she's new to owning reptiles.... At first I thought it was a beginners mistake but to hurt 3 snakes in a row! Nope something's up don't you's think??


----------



## dangles (Sep 20, 2011)

alrightknight said:


> I fail to believe a heat mat could get so hot it would cause such severe burns, you think it would have be melting the plastic to do something like that.



ive temped some mats at over 60 degrees without a stat. so i believe a mat could cause a burn.


as for the olive being a cigarette burn, i highly doubt it. As pointed out it affects a fair distance forward from the main injury.


----------



## traceylee (Sep 20, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Well I'm 100% sure it is NOT scalerot. And she didn't even know how the burns were caused- she's new to owning reptiles.... At first I thought it was a beginners mistake but to hurt 3 snakes in a row! Nope something's up don't you's think??



I'm guessing she doesn't really care too much for them  I know if either of mine got burnt like that - it would be straight to the vet without any hesitation.


----------



## PythonLegs (Sep 20, 2011)

You need to get on to DERM- if she's abusing these animals- and poor husbandry resulting in harm is abuse- you'd be doing a good thing stopping it now,as from what you've written and implied it's not the first or last time. Obviously there's something not right with this situation..and she's breeding the next generation too. How lovely.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

I think your TROLLING


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Well I'm 100% sure its not scale rot! She said she doesnt know what caused the burns as she is only new to the reptile world, at first i thought it was beginners mistakes but now.. No way can someone hurt 3 snakes in a row, not by accident anyways. And about the heat mat, yes correct i have never heard before hand of a heat mat getting so hot and giving a snake a burn as bad as that! Please someone correct me if i am wrong and link me to where you have seen a burn this bad caused by a heat mat as i would like to see. Also if some people actually bothered to read my whole first post, i am sending the pair of them to who ive told is the best retile vet in QLD! And theres also been a change of plan, they will arrive tomorrow at the vets.


----------



## souldoubt (Sep 20, 2011)

If you're for real (and I'm not suggesting you're just winding people up of course, but I dont really have anyway of being certain so just have to take your word for it) the continued occurence of injuries to animals indicates to me that she is either 1. injuring them on purpose or 2. unfit to look after pets. 
Glad to hear the animals are in better care now, I think it would be a good idea to convince your friend to give up on reptile keeping, or report her.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry guys posted the same few sentences twice -.-


----------



## PythonLegs (Sep 20, 2011)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/heat-mat-horror-164844/

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/heat-mat-caught-fire-121271/

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/heat-mat-failure-135483/

Heat mats are bad, mkay? So, dont use heat mats. Cause, heat mats are bad. Mkay.


----------



## pythrulz (Sep 20, 2011)

Whatever happened to the snake beginner to reptiles or not it is certainly a case of neglect so hopefully you will take the snakes get them to a vet and look after them and I your sp called freind newver owns a reptile or other animals


----------



## whyme (Sep 20, 2011)

The heatmat needs a thermostat. Burns could be from the snake going belly up. Instead of giving her s#@t, maybe try and help her,( being a first time rep keeper), sort things out as quick as possible! P.S. your friend can pm me if she or yourself want.


----------



## PythonLegs (Sep 20, 2011)

whyme said:


> The heatmat needs a thermostat. Burns could be from the snake going belly up. Instead of giving her s#@t, maybe try and help her,( being a first time rep keeper), sort things out as quick as possible! P.S. your friend can pm me if she or yourself want.



Here we go again..the APS flame patrol turning on a poster. From previous posts it seems the poster Has tried to help already without success. 


''Yes i have seen their enclosures as i go their regularly, they are all full of poo and very dirty  The heat mat is inside the enclosure. She has just put the heat mat on top of the fake grass then a hide straight on top of the heat mat- '_would not listen to me when i told her not to '
_ 

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/burnt-snakes-170315/page/2#


----------



## Elapidae1 (Sep 20, 2011)

Is this the same snake that was burnt in July?


----------



## Bluetonguesblack (Sep 20, 2011)

I agree with Cement on the olive , it would take a very skilled cigarette holder to put all the other small marks between the scales on the other effected areas while wrestling with a snake that wouldn`t be a happy camper at the alledged time of injury .


----------



## whyme (Sep 20, 2011)

PythonLegs said:


> Here we go again..the APS flame patrol turning on a poster. From previous posts it seems the poster Has tried to help already without success.
> 
> ''Yes i have seen their enclosures as i go their regularly, they are all full of poo and very dirty  The heat mat is inside the enclosure. She has just put the heat mat on top of the fake grass then a hide straight on top of the heat mat- '_would not listen to me when i told her not to '
> _


The comment was directed at the replies, not the OP. Sorry if it was taken the wrong way. Advice could be given to the OP and her friend on either how they could remedy the situation, or her friend finding a more suitable pet. I believe whoever sold her the snakes/setup,if knowing she was a first time keeper, should've informed her of the requirements to keep such animals. In no way was I trying to have a shot at the OP or her friend.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Sep 20, 2011)

Elapidae1 said:


> Is this the same snake that was burnt in July?


And is the olive het the one you said had hereditary rib problems but are now saying the kids crushed. Sorry for being cynical, but if you go there often and you knew the animals lived in filthy conditions, why would you sell her snakes in the first place. You have posted previously about a wild olive you though had had a stroke, a burnt coastal you owned and a het olive with rib problems, seems co-incidental that they are three exact same species with different owners and circumstances now. At that point you claimed you couldn't take the animals to a vet as you were stuck in Mt Isa. No I am not flaming the poster here, just very confused and feeling like something is not adding up.


----------



## marcmarc (Sep 20, 2011)

I don't think the new to reptiles thing is any excuse to keep a filthy enclosure. I can almost understand accidental burns from a heat source, maybe a shop gave crappy advice, then again maybe not. 
Responsible people do the homework first, don't buy on impulse, or get an animal if they aren't suitably prepared or even unable to keep up with all requirements (present/future). 
Anyways whatever the suspicions of origin of the injuries is not relevant, as long as the animals are out of that environment (the animals don't get put through any more of this), and in fantastic care is. 
It appears the snakes are going to the vet very soon and I bet I am not the only one that would like to know how they go, so please keep us all posted, and all the best with them too.
M.


----------



## RickLeekong (Sep 20, 2011)

Goldmember said:


> Based on what?


observations


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hey guys, sorry to confuse you all :/ The other posts i did a while back about the burnt ones were referring to the carpet, the burns wasnt nearly as bad then its gotten 100 times worse, there was nothing i could do at the time. The het albino olive, we thought it was hereditary but we got an xray at the vet and it ended up being that it had been squished  as if someone stood on him. The olive python with the stroke- Had to be euthanized as it was not eating and not getting better, and our vet did not believe it would do any better in the wild. I dont think ive posted about about this olive before as earlier the scab thingy was not as big and noticeable. Also none of the snakes are my own i will say. Ive been keeping snakes now for about 15 years and NEVER had any problems with any of mine that have been in my care. Also yes i go there often but when i sold her the snakes i had them advertised around town before putting anything on the net and she called me. When she came over it sounded like she had lots of experience and i thought they were going to a good home- yes i know i was wrong. Her enclosures were well kept when they were first bought but after they started getting dirty and smelly she had no interest in cleaning the tanks, i have offered to clean them but she does not want me to clean them out for her- i dont know why. Also we do have a vet here but he only works on cats, dogs, horses etc not reptiles, thats why i said a while ago about the olive with the stroke we will have to go to Townsville for a check up. We sent videos of the snake to a vet in townsville and he was the one who recommended we get the snake euthanized. Please guys no more hate comments, its very hard to write things over the internet to make them sound correct but i can assure you all i've done everything possible and to the best of my ability to get these snakes back which i finally have and i cant help the fact of the unfortunate olive python. Fixing all these snakes which I had to pay for cost me alot of money, she couldnt pay as she ''has no money''. So please note im doing my best here ok.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Sep 20, 2011)

Hey, wasn't being hateful, I was just confused by the whole thing, just to clarify.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Your right  i understand sometimes when writing things on the internet sometimes the message isn't sent across as you intended it to, i do it sometimes too so im not the one to go hating on people for it  I will keep yous all posted of what happens with the carpet python and the olive. I dont expect to hear anything till Thursday though as a very good friend is picking them up then taking them sometime to the vet (will definitely be this week).


----------



## Em1986 (Sep 20, 2011)

:'( I feel so sorry for the snakes.
I hope that something can be done about what has happened to them.
Please go back to her house and remove the rest of her reptiles, not sure what you can do about the wild caught one/s though.
Please keep us updated and i hope they pull through their injuries.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 20, 2011)

PythonLegs, Thanks for sharing that with me and everyone else, its unfortunate for the people it happened to but good they shared it to send a warning to others... so exo terra and urs....Thats a bit scary as the heat mats i use are all urs brand... But ive always been careful with leaving them on as im sure most people would be because of these outcomes what can happen.


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 21, 2011)

You should stop stressing yourself over how or why this injuries have occured, and start concentrating on helping these animals. I haven't read all your posts yet, but going straight from the OP, these poor snakes need lots of TLC. I have seen injuries on a carpet, like that before - almost identical in fact. I would recommend keeping him absolutely dry. No baths. Apply cream, silvazine, to the effected areas every day but that is all you can do. They may go through many shed processes, in attempt to heal themselves. Retained skin will no doubt stick to the wounds but not be tempted to pull it off. Leave it there. It will come off when its ready. Don't give him a large water bowl. Small one that he can drink from but can't climb into. Soaking burns is only asking for more trouble, as moisture gets trapped under their scales, causing more bacterial infections. Good luck with them, and keep us posted.



alrightknight said:


> I fail to believe a heat mat could get so hot it would cause such severe burns, you think it would have be melting the plastic to do something like that.



Don't bet on it. Do you think a 10W heatmat can do this much damage to an enclosure and not burn the animals? I was lucky that my animals didn't sustain burns but when heat sources are not used appropriately (and very few know any better, I learnt the hard way) a 10W heatmat will burn as good as 100W mat.















This is my olive girl Stella. She hurt her nose trying to escape her enclosure. I had a lock on her door but she spent ages trying to squeeze through a gap that she ended up ripping the scale off her nose on the edge of the glass door. I didn't do anything except keep an eye on it, dabbed some iodine on it. It healed well. Left a scar but it did not effect her at all. But the only way to prevent this happening again was to move her from an enclosure with sliding glass doors to a top opening enclosure.


----------



## RickLeekong (Sep 21, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> You should stop stressing yourself over how or why this injuries have occured, and start concentrating on helping these animals. I haven't read all your posts yet, but going straight from the OP, these poor snakes need lots of TLC. I have seen injuries on a carpet, like that before - almost identical in fact. I would recommend keeping him absolutely dry. No baths. Apply cream, silvazine, to the effected areas every day but that is all you can do. They may go through many shed processes, in attempt to heal themselves. Retained skin will no doubt stick to the wounds but not be tempted to pull it off. Leave it there. It will come off when its ready. Don't give him a large water bowl. Small one that he can drink from but can't climb into. Soaking burns is only asking for more trouble, as moisture gets trapped under their scales, causing more bacterial infections. Good luck with them, and keep us posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wowwwww i hopoe she recovers quickly, i love olive pythons.


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 21, 2011)

She did. And even at the time she did it, it didn't slow her down, didn't effect her appetite or her attitude


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 21, 2011)

Ok guys update on the snakes: They been sent to my friend now and he is taking them to the vet tomorrow, not much news on the carpet but the olive definetly has some sort of burn, they will be putting cream on her head (some special sort) and then once the scab comes off they will examine her head bone to see if it has any bacteria growing on it- if so she will put under anesthetic and the top of the bone will be scarped. Thats the only update i have for now, more news on them tomorrow.


----------



## Gecko :) (Sep 25, 2011)

Any news on these poor critters?


----------



## Defective (Sep 25, 2011)

The olive definitely has a ciggy burn on its head!


----------



## StimiLove (Sep 25, 2011)

thats a cigarette burn if you ask me. I saw these photo's and said many an "F" word. I hope they are ok. No animal needs to be tortured. (Can you tell i'm angry!?)


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 25, 2011)

Ohh yes update sorry im late :/ Well the vets not saying how he thinks the burns were caused but definetly not accidental he has said. The carpet will be washed twice a day every second say in betadine water and flamazine cream will be applied. As for the olive, her wound will just be treated with flamazine cream until the scab peels off then she will be checked if she has a bone infection on the head bone and if she does she will be put under anethsitcic and the infection will have to be scraped away. If that procedure has to be done then a few weeks after they will scan her brain to see if it has any damage  Now for some good news  The baby olive with the broken ribs ate 4 pinkie mice today! Huge improvement from last time- first time he had none then the second time he had 1. And the olive with the cigarette burn ate 3 weanling rats today  Carpet still hasnt eaten but its expected he will recover but just have a huge scar on his stomach. I'll keep yous all updated with anymore news i find out


----------



## KaotikJezta (Sep 25, 2011)

Just a question, is the 96 attached to your name your year of birth and if so does this mean you have been keeping snakes since you were 1 :shock:


----------



## Inkage (Sep 25, 2011)

Seems like neglect to me.... If she has children or other small animals check to see if they are rocking back and forth in the corner of a room...That would be a good indicator.


----------



## ianinoz (Sep 25, 2011)

looks like an open and shut case of animal abuse and downright torture (probably with lit cigarettes or something red hot) to me.

I'd be getting in touch with the RSPCA or the local police and ditching her as a friend. 

I assume you are paying for the vet, so I guess you now own the snakes. I'd never let them go back to her.

I would post what I think of your friend but I don't want to be banned from here for saying it.


----------



## Renenet (Sep 25, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> The baby olive with the broken ribs ate 4 pinkie mice today! Huge improvement from last time- first time he had none then the second time he had 1. And the olive with the cigarette burn ate 3 weanling rats today  Carpet still hasnt eaten but its expected he will recover but just have a huge scar on his stomach. I'll keep yous all updated with anymore news i find out



Great to hear some better news. Yes, please do let us know how they go.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 25, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Just a question, is the 96 attached to your name your year of birth and if so does this mean you have been keeping snakes since you were 1 :shock:



Hey no its not my year of birth, just a number i put on the end on all my forum/ youtube names etc... And i've been keeping snakes since i was 11


----------



## Banjo (Sep 25, 2011)

It is great to here that the snakes are having the best possible care and that recovery process is well under way, really sad to here what has happened though. I hope the person responible is able to get some help as well.


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 25, 2011)

I am not sure you would want to be offering any large food items to that carpet for a long time. Stretching at the sites of those scabs could stress them to tear or bleed. In most circumstances I wouldn't be feeding them at all, but giving the neglect he's been subject to he probably needs to the nourishment to help him heal. So just keep it in mind, smaller prey that he can swallow and not stretch, and more of them would be far easier for him that large prey, until those scabs are totally gone and the skin is repaired.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 25, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> I am not sure you would want to be offering any large food items to that carpet for a long time. Stretching at the sites of those scabs could stress them to tear or bleed. In most circumstances I wouldn't be feeding them at all, but giving the neglect he's been subject to he probably needs to the nourishment to help him heal. So just keep it in mind, smaller prey that he can swallow and not stretch, and more of them would be far easier for him that large prey, until those scabs are totally gone and the skin is repaired.



Yeah as far as i am aware he is only being fed fuzzie rats which is 2 sizes small for him. The olive with the broken ribs is in my care at the moment and i've been told to keep him on pinkie mice for between 4-6 months depending on how much he eats and how quickly he grows, just enough so it can move the ribs back into place to make it heal a bit better but not too big that it's bulging out of his guts. He is expected to make a full recovery but the kinks from the broken ribs will always be there. I'll post some more photos of their progress when my friend emails me the photos of the carpet and olive.


----------



## mje772003 (Sep 25, 2011)

That is a sad sad day when the beautiful olive like that has to be euthanised poor guy


----------



## KaotikJezta (Sep 25, 2011)

mje772003 said:


> That is a sad sad day when the beautiful olive like that has to be euthanised poor guy


Where does it say it had to be euthed


----------



## Fantazmic (Sep 25, 2011)

Inkage said:


> Seems like neglect to me.... If she has children or other small animals check to see if they are rocking back and forth in the corner of a room...That would be a good indicator.



Animal cruelty is an indicator of cruelty to humans at a later stage. It has been shown time and again that people who abuse others or worse often have a childhood history of animal cruelty. If you think one of the snakes was stood on by a child who is to say the other injuries were not also done by one of the children ?????

We dont know who did this to the snakes.....if it was me I would be ringing up Child protection and speaking to them. 

I know I might sound like I am sensationalising but even if the children were not the ones who did these cruel acts......if they witnessed them that is enough for me to say that these children are not in an appropriate environment. 


Second if these injuries are accidental then the animals are being neglected...and so what about the children are they being neglected too ?

If Mum is a druggie then.......

If these children are in moral danger etc and there is an investigation....

Well Im just saying if it was me...id be making some phonecalls.......

Some people do not deserve to have children let alone the privelege of having animals
and if Mum's a druggie....well what more is there to say...


----------



## mrkos (Sep 25, 2011)

Sounds to me like your friends are scumbags and havent the slightest bit of respect for their pets health or well being for you to sell them these animals and regularly visit these people and see the state of these animals well you know the old saying fly with crows get shot with the crows. To be honest this thread ****s me and I think are a troll cheers


----------



## KaotikJezta (Sep 25, 2011)

I would almost guarantee she is a troll, especially as she has a pic of an olive in her Show us ya collection thread that has what looks to be the beginnings of the exact same injury as this olive has. Have a look at the olives head in pic 2.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/show-us-ya-reptiles-170359/


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah I have a pic of the olive in my other thread because it's now living with me.... And if you's don't like reading the thread- don't read it. And you's don't know me so don't go making assumptions about me ok. If your not interested in knowing how the snakes are going and only want to start a flaming war then hiss off.

Hey everyone, If you want me to keep you posted on what happens with the snakes PM me as im not writing on here anymore because i dont want to start a stupid flaming war that out keyboard warriors react to so much. I'm not commentig on this anymore so like i said PM me and ill give you updates weekly 
Cheers.


----------



## Morgan_dragon (Sep 26, 2011)

Did you say she has another snake in her collection?

Perhaps if she isn't willing to hand it over the vet that has said it wasnt accidental can put a police report or something in that will cause it to be removed before she or her family injures it as well...or worse 

If shes a druggie she won't want the police there - tell her the vet is going to do it and they will be coming around.....then offer to take the snake to help her out. Might push her to release the wild one as well.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 26, 2011)

Morgan_dragon said:


> Did you say she has another snake in her collection?
> 
> Perhaps if she isn't willing to hand it over the vet that has said it wasnt accidental can put a police report or something in that will cause it to be removed before she or her family injures it as well...or worse
> 
> Yeah shes got a little bredli. I made her release the wild one ages ago so thats all good.


----------



## Jazzz (Sep 26, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> I would almost guarantee she is a troll, especially as she has a pic of an olive in her Show us ya collection thread that has what looks to be the beginnings of the exact same injury as this olive has. Have a look at the olives head in pic 2.
> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/show-us-ya-reptiles-170359/



yeah you are being really skeptical and keep trying to find a hole in the story... if you have nothing nice or constructive to post dont post at all =/


----------



## Bel03 (Sep 26, 2011)

Im not going to try guess what is going on here, if this is the real story or not, i just hope these animals recover & live the lives they are meant to. I will however say that i can understand why some people find this story to be a little.....off. You must admit some things just dont seem to add up. For example.....on the 20th you posted that this person would be releasing the wc snake 'the next day'.......today you posted that you made her let it go 'ages ago'.......it hasnt even been a wk.......:? ANYWAY, as i said, no matter what the story is, i wish these animals a safe happy life.


----------



## LadyJ (Sep 26, 2011)

I gagged and am quite teary... you're an angel for saving the snakes, but I'd put my money on cigerette burns, before I even read that suggestion that was my thought. :'(


----------



## marcmarc (Sep 26, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Yeah I have a pic of the olive in my other thread because it's now living with me.... And if you's don't like reading the thread- don't read it. And you's don't know me so don't go making assumptions about me ok. If your not interested in knowing how the snakes are going and only want to start a flaming war then hiss off.
> 
> Hey everyone, If you want me to keep you posted on what happens with the snakes PM me as im not writing on here anymore because i dont want to start a stupid flaming war that out keyboard warriors react to so much. I'm not commentig on this anymore so like i said PM me and ill give you updates weekly
> Cheers.


Keep on posting. You aren't obligated to respond to anything negative nor do you have to acknowledge anything neggo.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Sep 26, 2011)

What is clear is that both reptiles and owner require help. 

Heat mats can cause burns if the thermostat in them fails and those burns can be quite nasty. It is an unfortunate reality that snakes in particular do not respond to excessive heat applied to their bodies in the same way humans would. However, there are two facts that invalidate the owner’s claim of the heat mat being responsible. The extensive area that was burnt would require the snake to be tightly coiled and motionless throughout – an unlikely scenario. The second factor is that the artificial grass beneath the mat was unaffected. If the temperature was high enough to produce the significant burns on the snake, it was high enough to at least melt the blades on the artificial grass. As was explained for the Olive Python, a faulty mat would not cause such localized damage. There is nothing else in the enclosure that could cause it.

Given that the injuries evidently did not occur within their enclosures, they occurred when they were taken out. So they are the direct result of someone in the household. The owner has responsibility for their welfare and is clearly not enacting it. Her refusal of an offer of assistance to clean cages is further evidence of this. Regardless of who inflicted the injuries, the owner would have been aware and did nothing to address them or the situation. This far from normal and cannot be explained fully by drug use alone. It is clearly indicative or a more deep seated mental health problem which is in real need of being addressed. This is why the advice offered by Fantazmic is so very sound and should be acted upon for the good of all concerned.

Well done on looking after the reptiles – a difficult situation to find yourself in but admirably addressed.



KaotikJezta said:


> I would almost guarantee she is a troll, especially as she has a pic of an olive in her Show us ya collection thread that has what looks to be the beginnings of the exact same injury as this olive has. Have a look at the olives head in pic 2.


If you take the time to carefully compare the photos, in particular the individual shape of various scales, you can see that it is not the same animal.

Blue


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 26, 2011)

Thank you blue!  the olive in that photo is the one with broken ribs and the thing on his head is just from bad shedding, it's not the one with the cigarette burn.


----------



## ianinoz (Sep 28, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Yeah I have a pic of the olive in my other thread because it's now living with me.... And if you's don't like reading the thread- don't read it. And you's don't know me so don't go making assumptions about me ok. If your not interested in knowing how the snakes are going and only want to start a flaming war then hiss off.
> 
> Hey everyone, If you want me to keep you posted on what happens with the snakes PM me as im not writing on here anymore because i dont want to start a stupid flaming war that out keyboard warriors react to so much. I'm not commentig on this anymore so like i said PM me and ill give you updates weekly
> Cheers.



Well I for one am interested in how the injured snakes are going. Ignore the trolls who want to flame and bait here, they're not worth your trouble to argue with them. 

Those snakes are fortunate that you rescued them.

I wouldn't wait for the vet to contact the RSPCA (he may be dragging his feet because he is reluctant to be involved in any criminal matters or to go to court to give evidence). I'd be onto the blower to the RSPCA myself, and show them the animals (and photos of them as you found them) and I'd tell who the vet was who saw them.
I certainly wouldn't wait for anyone else to take action. But that's me, I've never been one to avoid stepping on toes and making waves when I think it's necessary.

If you think she's likely turn nasty, I'd also visit the local magistate and apply for an AVO against her.



Jazzz said:


> yeah you are being really skeptical and keep trying to find a hole in the story... if you have nothing nice or constructive to post dont post at all =/



I agree with that sentiment.


----------



## snakelady96 (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah you are right ianinoz  I'm not responding to them anymore, they can start a flame war between themselves if they like. Now the story just gets better and better hey! Shes gone and caught another baby spotted monitor- not sure if i mentioned i made her let an adult one go! And she has every intention of keeping it, and i am TOTALLY against keeping wild animals no matter what the age is- that sort of stuff really does get me fuming! So now i have decided that i am definetly going to be making some phone calls! First im going to HOD EPA and see what my options are (i want my identity to be kept private) and then depending on what they say im going to go into our local EPA and discuss the issue with them and im pretty sure they are most likely to have a representative of RSPCA here so hopefully they will seize the animals from her. 

I should be getting an email/ phone call from my friend in Cairns tomorrow saying how they are going and some pics of the carpet and olive from last week compared to this week. 
So hopefully they will be getting better!


----------



## mje772003 (Sep 28, 2011)

All the best snakelady i wish you all the best


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 28, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> ......i want my identity to be kept private)......



You'd want to be careful what you write here. Your identity won't stay private on an open forum. How do you know those people don't visit this forum?

I hope the monitor latches on to her and rips her finger off. Even youngsters can inflick nasty wounds. I will have to go a google this one though, not sure how big the spotted monitors are, but my baby ackie didn't cease to try and rip a piece of flesh of my hand once. He grabbed a mouth full of skin and shook it with all his might. His little teeth marked my skin but that was all, but a few years older he would have won that round.


----------



## ianinoz (Sep 28, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Yeah you are right ianinoz  I'm not responding to them anymore, they can start a flame war between themselves if they like. Now the story just gets better and better hey! Shes gone and caught another baby spotted monitor- not sure if i mentioned i made her let an adult one go! And she has every intention of keeping it, and i am TOTALLY against keeping wild animals no matter what the age is- that sort of stuff really does get me fuming! So now i have decided that i am definetly going to be making some phone calls! First im going to HOD EPA and see what my options are (i want my identity to be kept private) and then depending on what they say im going to go into our local EPA and discuss the issue with them and im pretty sure they are most likely to have a representative of RSPCA here so hopefully they will seize the animals from her.
> 
> I should be getting an email/ phone call from my friend in Cairns tomorrow saying how they are going and some pics of the carpet and olive from last week compared to this week.
> So hopefully they will be getting better!



I'm opposed to capturing wild lizards, snakes and frogs and birds and imprisoning them in enclosures or cages. Yes I know all us did this when we were kids. 
But we didn't know how stressful it is for wild animal like a lizard or snake to be handled when it's not used to interaction with people (or a person it trusts) , it's not fair on the animal.

This is the reason why I've never tried or been tempted to catch Lizzy (or her baby or her boyfriend Scrapper), or my resident yard bluetongue/s). I enjoy interacting with them and the fact that it's their choice to interact with me, especially Lizzy who has become like a family member and I've become very fond off over the last 12 months (because she's such a friendly and sweet natured and tame (now) EWS.
She even enjoys tickles under the chin and the occasional handsurf.

She comes inside when it suits her, and if she indicates she'd like a food treat , but coming really close to me and looking into my eyes (asking for a treat) , I''m only too happy to provide a nice juicy mealworm or cricket or cockroach if I've caught one inside the house , she used to get small pieces of cooked meat , but hasn[had these since April , it's been all insects since (I even catch cockroaches and moths for her rather than spraying them and I keep them in a used mealworm punnet just for her). She is totally free and has the run of the house.

I'd love to have some nice snakes but unfortunately my wife will never like snakes in the house , even if it's the most docile,tame and friendly snake in the universe.

Rambling ..... hope those injured snakes are on the mend. Do you think they'll ever trust anyone again after being being tortured by their last owner ?


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 29, 2011)

Just before winter we discovered we had a resident water dragon. Now that the weather is warming up I hope to see him back. I am currently fixing up my garden to add a small water pond so hopefully to attract him and his mates back. I have heaps of blueys. In my native garden I made a tunnel underground for them and have dense, bushy plants so they can hide well. Unfortunately it fills up with water when it rains too much but the blueys aren't silly. They move to higher, dry ground, often under our house.





This is an old photo. My garden is pretty much overgrown now.


----------



## Waterrat (Sep 29, 2011)

ianinoz said:


> I'm opposed to capturing wild lizards, snakes and frogs and birds and imprisoning them in enclosures or cages. Yes I know all us did this when we were kids.
> *But we didn't know* how stressful it is for wild animal like a lizard or snake to be handled when it's not used to interaction with people (or a person it trusts) , it's not fair on the animal.



And are we any wiser today? How do you know what kind of stress level, if any, handling inflicts on wild reptiles? Is such thing measurable? Reptiles get chased by predators, wild fires, disturbed by grazing stock, passing cars, etc.. Stress is a part of life in the wild. How often do you thing any given reptile is handled by a person in its entire life? Most of them never!
"imprisoning" wildlife often prolongs their life span and provides stress free (predators free) life with regular feeds, water and other luxuries they don't have in the bush. I am not suggesting that we should capture and keep wild animals but I am offering a different angle to look at the matter as opposed to animal liberationist morons.


----------



## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2011)

Michael then how do we explain the higher incidence of WC reptiles not thriving in captivity?


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 29, 2011)

My lacy is thriving. Mind you, he is only here temporarily but he is eating & healing well. Hasn't taken a nose dive which is good. But of course this is just one example. Not all are the same.


----------



## Waterrat (Sep 29, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Michael then how do we explain the higher incidence of WC reptiles not thriving in captivity?



GOrdo, I don't necessarily agree with that assumption. I posted somewhere else that we collected many reptiles in the 70s and 80s and most of them did OK, even on display at a Zoo. Of course, there are exceptions, e.g. monitors but most species of snakes handle captivity well.


----------



## ianinoz (Sep 29, 2011)

Just me, but I'd rather have my friendly lizard free to come and go as she pleases and have her choose to visit inside with us - for warmth, for security, for food, and as is often the case now, just to hang out.
Nothing wrong with encouraging her by having mealworms and crickets on hand to offer to her by hand as yummy treats when she visits.

Plus I don't want to need a licence to have her (imprisoned in an enclosure) .


----------



## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2011)

Michael i do have a fair ammount of experience with W/C snakes, i found a few species prone to dropping dead. Most adult pythons would spend most of their time coiled up with there heads covered and weren't that keen on feeding. It doesn't mean they can't do well in captivity but i do think there is a lower rate of snakes thriving in captivity particularly when they were WC as adults.


----------



## phantomreptiles (Sep 29, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> And are we any wiser today? How do you know what kind of stress level, if any, handling inflicts on wild reptiles? Is such thing measurable? Reptiles get chased by predators, wild fires, disturbed by grazing stock, passing cars, etc.. Stress is a part of life in the wild. How often do you thing any given reptile is handled by a person in its entire life? Most of them never!
> "imprisoning" wildlife often prolongs their life span and provides stress free (predators free) life with regular feeds, water and other luxuries they don't have in the bush. I am not suggesting that we should capture and keep wild animals but I am offering a different angle to look at the matter as opposed to animal liberationist morons.


 
Hmm interesting, but most stress on "wild" animals are an indirect cause of us humans, we remove all their habitat, we scare and kill them with vehicles, we clear their land so we can raise food for us, they are subjected to many more predators because we have also destroyed those homes.
I don't know what's worse - imprisonment for a wild animal or persecution in the "wild"???????
All caused by us charming humans.....tough one indeed.


----------



## Waterrat (Sep 29, 2011)

So, back to the burned snakes .........


----------



## rajohn1 (Sep 29, 2011)

*Burnt snakes*

May be from normal (incandescent) light globes, frosted ones get hotter than clear ones. I wouldn’t put anything over 60 watts in a cage without a mesh cover, (but something like 100 watts can get seriously hot). Also any exposed live wires or a live light socket fitting with no globe may cause burns. Also a broken light globe (in a live socket). I also recall there were some heat rocks that had some issues on the market a while back.

Note that there are 240 volt heat mats being sold, which are claimed to be safe-low voltage. However I think what they mean is low power as they are only a few watts, I believe they would could still be extremely dangerous as there is 240 volts up to where the cable attaches to the mat. 

I'm not sure how hot mesh covers can get with high wattage heat globes in them, but I suspect they could possibly get too hot.

Also if you use a US heat mat with an plug adapter it is going to get much, much hotter than it is supposed to. Not sure if it would burn the snake but I bet some people have used them in Australia.




John


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 30, 2011)

I didn't know frosted bulbs get hotter than clear ones? I thought it'd be the other way round so I've always bought frosted ones. I'll remember that one. But I have steered away from using lights, now, because they prove expensive when they need replacing too much. My lacy boy has a light - but its a spot bulb that directs the basking light down and in a wide mesh cover.

Yes the metal cages can get extremely hot - specially if you have a large bulb and a cage only just big enogh to cover the bulb. I suggest going for bigger mesh cover so that the bulb isn't touching or too close to the mesh cover.


----------



## jacks-pythons (Oct 29, 2011)

one of my heat mates burnt straight through a tub and burnt the table but the snake was fine. its was on a timer so it didnt stay on all the time but some are dodgy. but there is no way that olive for burnt on its head from a heat mat. the pattern and shape can be possible. id get them taken off her to be truthfull. poor little guys.


----------

