# Snake Ranch Releasing Albino Spotteds Again???



## reptileaddiction (Sep 5, 2012)

It appears Snake Ranch are releasing albino spotted pythons again this year in their 20/20 offer. After all the dramas they had last year they put out correspondence that stated,

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'We will only offer these when we believe the line is more viable'


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So what happened? What did I miss? They haven't had any more hatch out since then, so how can they believe the line is more viable? They've also removed the newsletter on their site in which they stated all the issue they were having.


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## Eddie2257 (Sep 5, 2012)

what were the issues?


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## sharky (Sep 5, 2012)

Oh yeah, I asked if they would have one of them this year for sale!!!! They said they didn't have any but were hoping for some _in future_


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## reptileaddiction (Sep 5, 2012)

This is the the details they provided 30 December last year.



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_Mixed results for the albino 'mac' project:_
 We had anticipated producing a reasonable number of albino macs this year, but our star white male (and up until now the only albino _Antaresia_ – mac or otherwise, that we have seen) had other ideas, and for the first time in three years, did not make a good showing in the reproductive stakes – producing only one small clutch despite being paired with four able and willing heterozygous females. If that wasn’t bad enough, the heterozygous males and females that we paired produced a much smaller than the anticipated 1:4 ratio of white to normal looking young (closer to 1:12) while at the same time a proportion of each of the three clutches of eggs produced died during incubation, suggesting the possibility of a lethal gene combination associated with the recessive genetic condition that suppresses melanin production. With this in mind, we are going keep the very few white young produced, as these may in fact be (relatively) genetically advantaged. We will continue to outbreed, and hopefully will be able to produce more robust albinos in the next year or two. We will only offer these when we believe the line is more viable. This unfortunate outcome is especially disappointing as we know how devastated those people who ordered albinos will be. Deposits will of course be immediately repaid.


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## eddie123 (Sep 5, 2012)

wow interesting but i dont think i can pay $10,000 for a pair


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Sep 5, 2012)

well thats a bummer oh well, they will come in time haha


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## thomasssss (Sep 5, 2012)

reptileaddiction - you just posted the answer to your own question

" We will continue to outbreed, and hopefully will be able to produce more robust albinos in the next year or two. We will only offer these when we believe the line is more viable. "

that part


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## reptileaddiction (Sep 5, 2012)

How is that answering my own question? They may have out crossed them, but if they haven't produced any more yet, how can the believe the line is more viable? They are offering them again this year!?


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## thomasssss (Sep 5, 2012)

well what is your question then

from what i can tell your wondering what happened to make the line more viable , yes , they may not have had more hatch since last year but that doesnt mean that they cant produce a good few good clutches from what they have 

snake ranch offers snakes for sale that havent hatched , thats what they do , if your not cool with the idea then dont put a deposit on any of their animals 

the point i was making about the answer being in what you posted was that it said right there that they may release some in the next year or 2 , that was last year so its been a year now , the article you posted was their reason for not releasing any from last year that doesn't mean they cant try again this year


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## junglepython2 (Sep 5, 2012)

I wonder how much interest they can make on all these 20% deposits they hold.


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## reptileaddiction (Sep 5, 2012)

My questions are in my first post. They're the ones with question marks at the ends


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## Justdragons (Sep 5, 2012)

they arnt the only ones breeding albino ants this year. i wonder where the best price will be


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## zulu (Sep 6, 2012)

Dont worry about prices, its the genetic viability thats a problem,before you go paying thousands for hets see some solid results, healthy albino juveniles.


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## wokka (Sep 6, 2012)

justdragons said:


> they arnt the only ones breeding albino ants this year. i wonder where the best price will be



Price doesn't matter if the animals never materialise!



justdragons said:


> they arnt the only ones breeding albino ants this year. i wonder where the best price will be



Price doesn't matter if the animals never materialise!

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What is better? A cheap animal which doesn't exist or a dearer one which does?


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## Kimberlyann (Sep 6, 2012)

They breed them back to possible hets and then non hets to make more hets for new blood and grow them up to breed back to the mother/father or who ever held the gene in the first place to make the line stronger. 
They had a really bad year last year with fertility, incubation and bad feeders, I didn't get the pair of bhps I put my deposit on and that's the story I was told.


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## No-two (Sep 6, 2012)

They did mention last season there were a few hatchies that were healthy, however it was poor result compared to what they expected. I'm assuming they're at a point where they're willing to release those stronger ones from this season hatchies.


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## Ozzie Python (Sep 6, 2012)

quote from snake ranch's email that went out this week:

With egg-laying season well upon us, we are very excited with the apparent success story shaping up for this year’s Albino Mac project.We had anticipated producing a reasonable number of albino macs last year, but our star white male – ‘Ribald Rodney’ (and up until now the only albino Antaresia – mac or otherwise, that we have seen) had other ideas, did not make a good showing in the reproductive stakes – producing only one small clutch despite being paired with four able and willing heterozygous females.So far the project is looking favourable this year. We have had several 100% het to 100% het pairings, also Ribald Rodney was more enthusiastic with his four chosen females this year. We look forward to sharing our results late January/early February 2013.


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## wokka (Sep 6, 2012)

Is the question - are females fathered by the albino heterozygous?
Is the albinism trait heretible, and if so how?
Perhaps the Albino trait carrys with it other undesirable traits such as low libido/fertility, as appears to be the case with many Albino Olives.


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## stimigex (Sep 6, 2012)

zulu said:


> Dont worry about prices, its the genetic viability thats a problem,before you go paying thousands for hets see some solid results, healthy albino juveniles.



There has been a fair amount of money paid out for the "100%HETS", now if they dont actually produce any albino offspring from the het to het matings there could well be a fraud action commenced!

I know of a couple gravid females at the moment, It will be an interesting time indeed!


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## solar 17 (Sep 6, 2012)

stimigex said:


> There has been a fair amount of money paid out for the "100%HETS", now if they dont actually produce any albino offspring from the het to het matings there could well be a fraud action commenced!
> 
> I know of a couple gravid females at the moment, It will be an interesting time indeed!


There are a few DRAMA QUEENS in this thread and although l wouldn't know anyone from snakeranch if l fell over them IMO they have a very good name in the hobby and appear to have had a minor hiccup with which they have kept people informed but some of you ppl seem hell bent on making something out of it........solar 17 (Baden)


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## zulu (Sep 6, 2012)

stimigex said:


> There has been a fair amount of money paid out for the "100%HETS", now if they dont actually produce any albino offspring from the het to het matings there could well be a fraud action commenced!
> 
> I know of a couple gravid females at the moment, It will be an interesting time indeed!



The hets are hets stim its just that the albinos often dont make it full term or die before birth or shortly after.
Thats what happens with the original line that came from the grand parents of the snake ranch albino anyway.
Thats why i say see some healthy albino neonates before buying .


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## ArcticMonkey (Sep 6, 2012)

You need to educate yourself regarding the legal definition of fraud.

Snake Ranch have a long standing record of integrity and ethical conduct in their business dealings. In fact, that is probably one of their main competitive advantages over other breeders. 




stimigex said:


> There has been a fair amount of money paid out for the "100%HETS", now if they dont actually produce any albino offspring from the het to het matings there could well be a fraud action commenced!
> 
> I know of a couple gravid females at the moment, It will be an interesting time indeed!


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## Grogshla (Sep 6, 2012)

I am looking to get an albino darwin off them for the 20/20 offer.


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## S&M Morelia (Sep 6, 2012)

Screw the albino macs, I'm more curious about their project of "black carpets"
So has the Black Princess bred then? hmmmm.....


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## hnn17 (Sep 6, 2012)

anyone know how much for hets and for albinos this year ?


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## Raymonde (Sep 6, 2012)

I have never really understood people fascination with albino's. I have always thought they look ugly and weird, but thats just me, and i realise that most people really like them. It's just that not only do they look weird but there is so many species where albinism has been proven to be linked to weaker genes, lower survival rates and health issues.


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## campbell72010 (Sep 7, 2012)

hnn17 said:


> anyone know how much for hets and for albinos this year ?



Check out their website, prices are up!!


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## PMyers (Sep 7, 2012)

Deleted by owner... Feeling quite ill today, and I tend to get quite nasty and opinionated (yes, even more so) when I am. I'll refrain from posting until better


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## spotlight (Sep 8, 2012)

So how many do you think have already put there deposits down for the albino macs ?. Has anyone ordered any?


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## spotlight (Sep 24, 2012)

Any more info on how the snake ranch albino spotteds are going?,how many clutches or any other info?


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## hnn17 (Sep 24, 2012)

might as well see this pic from sr


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## Albino93 (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh wow, now that is one pretty snake.


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## junglepython2 (Sep 24, 2012)

That looks a lot better then I expected!


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## No-two (Sep 24, 2012)

Now thats a good looking spotted python!!


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## Kitarsha (Sep 24, 2012)

Stunning!!!


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## spotlight (Sep 26, 2012)

Now I'm 100% buying a pair!!!!


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## Red-Ink (Sep 26, 2012)

If darwins are anything to go ny... that pink should turn out to be a stunning yellow!


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## thepythonguy (Sep 26, 2012)

amazing looking snake


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## Justdragons (Sep 26, 2012)

I cannot wait till everyone buys a pair.. that means in 3 years ill be able to get a affordable pair 

They really do look great..


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## Perko (Sep 26, 2012)

I doubt it, the demand for these things will be huge, it will be a long long time before supply out does demand, keep saving!



justdragons said:


> I cannot wait till everyone buys a pair.. that means in 3 years ill be able to get a affordable pair
> 
> They really do look great..


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## Grogshla (Sep 26, 2012)

very exciting stuff.


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## Justdragons (Sep 26, 2012)

Perko said:


> I doubt it, the demand for these things will be huge, it will be a long long time before supply out does demand, keep saving!




In 2009 or there abouts when i first looked in to albino darwins they were in the thousands, now you can pick them up for $500 for a looker.. it wont take long i dont think.
you can only charge so much for antaresia species albino or not, plus i know of a few people breeding them this year so in 3 years this years clutches will produce offspring and so on. Id say 3 to 4 years they will still be expensive but affordable for most hobby owners. remembering bigger breeders have to support a large breeding facility and their prices have to cover larger costs and so on. 

lol I hope id love to own em one day 

Jmo


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## HerpBooks (Sep 26, 2012)

.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 26, 2012)

justdragons said:


> In 2009 or there abouts when i first looked in to albino darwins they were in the thousands, now you can pick them up for $500 for a looker.. it wont take long i dont think.
> you can only charge so much for antaresia species albino or not, plus i know of a few people breeding them this year so in 3 years this years clutches will produce offspring and so on. Id say 3 to 4 years they will still be expensive but affordable for most hobby owners. remembering bigger breeders have to support a large breeding facility and their prices have to cover larger costs and so on.
> 
> lol I hope id love to own em one day
> ...



Time will tell.You say you know 3 people who will be breeding them this season.Will they or is it more wishful thinking on their parts than anything else?
Plenty of people in this hobby tend to talk the talk but that's where it ends.

From what I know about the albino ants is that there is still a lot of work to be done to make them robust and work through the problems that they carry.


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## Justdragons (Sep 26, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> Time will tell.You say you know 3 people who will be breeding them this season.Will they or is it more wishful thinking on their parts than anything else?
> Plenty of people in this hobby tend to talk the talk but that's where it ends.
> 
> From what I know about the albino ants is that there is still a lot of work to be done to make them robust and work through the problems that they carry.



your right, I know people breeding them.. the success i figure will vary.


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## Morgan_dragon (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow well I thought Albino Spotted's were supposed to be pure white like olives but whiter? hhmmm although a beautiful snake I must admit to being a little disappointed, not what I was led to believe they would look like. Why would you pay $11k for these when you could get a really beautiful pair of Albino Darwins for around $2k?

Personally while I have the money to buy a pair I think I will wait it out and see how their genetics play out. I'll wait until the success stories come to light, both with SR and others before investing that much cash into something even such an experienced breeder has struggled with....I already know of other breeders that have hets that did not take again this year.

Patience is a virtue and all that....pretty sure they were offered at $15k last year and are already just over $11k for a pair this year when nothing has been sold yet....


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## solar 17 (Sep 26, 2012)

These spotteds have one thing going for them once they get going that no other morph if you want to call it has had yet and that is exposure, these are the only ones that can get into pet shops that are allowed to have snakes in (NT ,SA, VIC. and QLD) which will help  solar 17 (baden)


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2012)

morgan dragon - comparing these to albino darwins is pointless - why buy a pair of albino darwins for 2K when you could get some really nice womas for $500?

People will buy them because they like albino spotteds and badens point about being able to sell them in petshops or on commercial licence here in Qld is a big bonus.


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## DazTopEndPythons (Sep 26, 2012)

deebo said:


> morgan dragon - comparing these to albino darwins is pointless - why buy a pair of albino darwins for 2K when you could get some really nice womas for $500?
> 
> People will buy them because they like albino spotteds and badens point about being able to sell them in petshops or on commercial licence here in Qld is a big bonus.


morgan dragon already has some nice womas


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## No-two (Sep 26, 2012)

Morgan_dragon said:


> Patience is a virtue and all that....pretty sure they were offered at $15k last year and are already just over $11k for a pair this year when nothing has been sold yet....



They were the same price last year and 11 on the 20:20 deal. Nothing has changed in price.


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## spotlight (Sep 26, 2012)

Who else will be putting there name down on a pair ?


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## hnn17 (Sep 26, 2012)

there is a whitish marbled childreni for sale on RDU right now, almost as good as an albino spotted.


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## FAY (Sep 26, 2012)

I will wait and wait..until they are about $200.00 each..lol


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## Minka (Sep 27, 2012)

solar 17 said:


> These spotteds have one thing going for them once they get going that no other morph if you want to call it has had yet and that is exposure, these are the only ones that can get into pet shops that are allowed to have snakes in (NT ,SA, VIC. and QLD) which will help  solar 17 (baden)





Aside from the Marble Children's Python ;-)


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## Morgan_dragon (Sep 27, 2012)

No-two said:


> They were the same price last year and 11 on the 20:20 deal. Nothing has changed in price.



Ah ok thanks, must have been the non 20/20 price I remembered..

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deebo said:


> morgan dragon - comparing these to albino darwins is pointless - why buy a pair of albino darwins for 2K when you could get some really nice womas for $500?
> 
> People will buy them because they like albino spotteds and badens point about being able to sell them in petshops or on commercial licence here in Qld is a big bonus.



Lol I compare a yellow and white Albino to Albino...you compare them to a woma? And you say my post was pointless? I said I was disappointed because I was under the impression they were an all white snake, not a white and yellow like a Darwin. Perhaps you should read the post instead of just trying to troll. By all means show me an Albino Woma for $500 and I will happily buy a pair and risk the $$ if they doesn't breed or pass on stronger genetics for a generation or two 

People will buy whatever they like regardless of either yours or my opinion, I simply asked why anyone would pay 5x the price for an animal with the same colouring only smaller that is not genetically proven out yet. You can say it was a pointless comparison if you like but it was one I made none the less and an opinion I'm entitled too 

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darring said:


> morgan dragon already has some nice womas



well thankyou and yes, yes I do....some beautiful reduced pattern rhd's  - oh and some really nice Albino Darwins for that matter


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## swampie (Sep 27, 2012)

From what I gather the albino spotted pythons fade out to near patternless as they mature, from memory this is what happened with Ribald Rodney (think that's his name), Snakeranches founding male.


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## deebo (Sep 27, 2012)

my comparison of buying womas instead was being sarcastic -comparing albino spotteds to albino darwins is not comparing apples with apples - they are completely different and thats why people will want and buy them. Anyway, thats my opinion....


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## DazTopEndPythons (Sep 27, 2012)

deebo said:


> my comparison of buying womas instead was being sarcastic -comparing albino spotteds to albino darwins is not comparing apples with apples - they are completely different and thats why people will want and buy them. Anyway, thats my opinion....[/Q
> mate take a deeep breath , its all ok ,
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


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## deebo (Sep 27, 2012)

anyway, moving on.....I'd interested to hear from people who have bred these, or at least attempted to, and what the difficulties/weaknesses with the line are. Ive heard of eggs dying during incubation, albino hatchys dying full term, shortly after hatching etc etc but it has always been 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand info.

How old was Ribald when snake ranch first tried to breed him? If was a bit immature that could explain the poor fertility rates but they have been releasing hets for a while so it is obviously tied to the visuals that is the problem, or they have been holding back whathever visuals they produced in previous years. I know simon stone struggled the first time he tried to to breed a male marble as he was a bit young and got poor results that year - maybe another year or so and the results from the albinos will improve.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 27, 2012)

deebo said:


> anyway, moving on.....I'd interested to hear from people who have bred these, or at least attempted to, and what the difficulties/weaknesses with the line are. Ive heard of eggs dying during incubation, albino hatchys dying full term, shortly after hatching etc etc but it has always been 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand info.
> 
> How old was Ribald when snake ranch first tried to breed him? If was a bit immature that could explain the poor fertility rates but they have been releasing hets for a while so it is obviously tied to the visuals that is the problem, or they have been holding back whathever visuals they produced in previous years. I know simon stone struggled the first time he tried to to breed a male marble as he was a bit young and got poor results that year - maybe another year or so and the results from the albinos will improve.



The project/s has been going on for quite a few years now and results to date have been disappointing to say the least.Given that ants can reproduce at a very young age and are easy to breed says to me that they are far from being an established line and a lot more work needs to be done.


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## Lachesis (Sep 27, 2012)

I got 6 healthy looking eggs out of my young pair of hets,so will see what happens in about a month.


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## saximus (Sep 27, 2012)

Excuse my ignorance here but can someone (Ramsayi) explain how the weakness likely comes about and how you strengthen it? I know that, as with Olives, people seem to prefer, say putting two hets together rather than pairing hets directly back to albino parents but, either way, the albino gene is the same (right?). So does the "strengthening" come about because possible other genetic weaknesses inherent in that the single line has or does the actual albino gene change when you outcross it as well? Hope that makes sense...


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## stimigex (Sep 27, 2012)

The easiest way would be to out cross the line, Then bring the new line back in over the Alb line but this takes a few years to do but it is something that needs to be done


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## Chris (Sep 27, 2012)

I'd love to have the disposable cash to throw at a pair.


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## pythrulz (Sep 27, 2012)

Reptileaddiction contact snake ranch and ask them they have very good customer service they mus have at least more than one pair of adults there otherwise they wouldnt or shouldnt advertise after what after last season


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## spotlight (Sep 27, 2012)

After last time if there was a possibility of not supplying I'm sure they would not do the 20/20 again that would be stupid.


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## spotlight (Oct 14, 2012)

any new news on the development of the albino spotteds , like how many clutchs layed ?????


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## snakebag (Oct 14, 2012)

Spotted pythons have clutches half the size of carpets and have a much greater demand due to their size, reputation for being a great beginners python and the fact that in some states anterasia are the only family of python that can be sold in pet shops, because of these reasons I think they will hold their price for a very long time.

From Snake Ranch:
As is often the case with keystone projects, progress is never as fast as planned.

Last season the project was struck with especially bad luck during incubation on many of the clutches. In order to produce the most genetically diverse offspring as possible many of the pairings involved young male hets, this gamble proved to be unwise and eventuated in clutches with various numbers of slugs. Along with fluctuations in incubation temperatures, our het to albino ratios suffered so it was decided to hold onto all the offspring produced.

This season we opted to use the same parings as last year in order to prove/disprove any issues with the project. We are happy to say that unlike last year the vast majority of eggs seem perfect at the mid point of incubation, therefore our decision to offer some pairs for sale demonstrates our confidence in the project in 2012.


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## reptileaddiction (Oct 14, 2012)

spotlight said:


> any new news on the development of the albino spotteds , like how many clutchs layed ?????



Snake Ranch have put an update on another web forum.


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## spotlight (Oct 14, 2012)

reptileaddiction said:


> Snake Ranch have put an update on another web forum.



Where can I find it?


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## reptileaddiction (Oct 14, 2012)

spotlight said:


> Where can I find it?



Just sent you a PM.


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## mungus (Oct 14, 2012)

Ok...........can you tell us 8)


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## spotlight (Oct 14, 2012)

Thanks guys finally some good pics


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## cathy1986 (Oct 14, 2012)

reptileaddiction said:


> Snake Ranch have put an update on another web forum.



where is this thread??

Cathy


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## Albino93 (Oct 14, 2012)

Could u pm me this other forum too please reptileaddiction?


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