# Archer Fish... Your thoughts :)



## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

Have you ever kept archer fish?

Do you know someone who has?

What can you tell me about them?

I have a brackish water pond (up to 5000L) with loads of filtration and hopefully an oxygen rich environment. The water is crystal clear and has a specific gravity of around 1.006. The temperature is ambient - generally hovering around 27'C.

The pond is moved (in a circular fashion) by a 8000L per hour pond pump with a small mechanical filter. A smaller (unknown of size) filter pumps water from the bottom close to the outfall of the cannister filter (explained soon). This pump is housed with filter wool and covered by activated carbon. 

The cannister filter is pumped from the bottom with a filter covered by filter wool and charcoal then into the cannister with a sponge, activated carbon and bio-balls (??). Prior to reaching the cannister filter it passes through a UV-C light.

There are plenty of plants - only recently planted though - I am going to wait till after New Years to get the fish.

There's a air pump delivering around 560L per hour through a large airstone.

The depth of the pond varies - but generally around 50cm deep. 

My intial thoughts are for archer fish - certainly the size of the pond isn't an issue. I think the specific gravity would be ok - though pH hasn't been tested yet.

I have three sword tails in there at the moment - they're 'tester' fish. They appear ok - though they're hard to find in the huge pond. There's loads of hiding spots.

My plan is to eventually put guppies etc in the pond with plenty of cover so they can hide during dangerous times and perhaps continually breed as a sustainable supply for the archer fish.

The pond is located outside and there is a huge amount of wild insects (beetles etc) landing on the pond. I suspect these will be food as well. I have woodies that are being bred for the frogs - these I would assume can also be fed to the archer fish.

Is there anything you can tell me that will help me and my archer fish quest? If you recommend against them - what reason? If you're all for them - also what reason?

Are they breedable?

I have internet researched - and talked to several aquarium specialists. All seem to agree the archer fish is an amazing fish to keep - but most admitted to not knowing an awful lot about them. So here is a great place to start.

I appreciate your comments and feedback.

Cheers


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## Chrisreptile (Dec 7, 2007)

i have never kept them, but we have them at work.
A good fish to keep with other brackish type species such as Silver scats, Mono Argents etc. Can grow up to 25cm. They need a Ph of 7.0 - 7.2
Hardness 500+ Brackish Water
Their diet consists of Insects ie Crickets,Flies,Moths.


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## Chrisreptile (Dec 7, 2007)

an archer


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

I have 2 archer fish in a 3ft tank. I think they are toxotes chaterus. You may hear that brackish water etc is needed but that is mainly for toxotes jaculatrix_ (_I think these are what Americans mainly have hence why most websites say brackish) _. _My 2 archer fish are happy in fresh. 

How many ? Apparently you should either have just 1 or if u have more than 1 have atleast 3. If u only have 2, 1 may pick on the other, I guess if u have more than 1 the bullying is spread between them. My 2 sort of take turns being the dominant 1 but really dont even chase each other that much any more (they kind of did when smaller - 6cm) Just make sure they are the same size and there are places to hide (plants etc). 

Now mine are about 12cm, they grow very first when well fed, and they are always hungry. They do spit heaps at me and flies etc that fly past and I get water up the walls etc so make sure there are no power points etc near by. 

I have a yellow tail catfish with them and had a bullrout (it needed brackish- although I've heard of them spending their whole life cycle in fresh) but it died. They really like small fish (I systematically gave them all my mosquito fish from my pond). Like I said they are hungry all the time and even when I decide to reduce their food they simply start to eat the plants (the little buggers) especially leafy ones. 

I guess you should be careful of birds and be aware they will eat fish they can fit into their mouths. 
I wonder if putting a light over the pond at night might be an idea to attract insects for food.

I think I heard of them breeding overseas by accident maybe. But normally they go out to sea and release very small eggs (which would be hard to raise anyway). 

Some small fish might survive in there with them but have plenty of dense weed for them to hide in, but make sure there is plenty free swimming space for the archers. Can I recommend u get some nice Native rainbow fish instead of guppies, they may even be big enough to not get eaten.

They are also tropical so you need heat. (28 -30oC)


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## jack (Dec 7, 2007)

yeah, i have kept them in an aquarium. the salinity is not a great concern, mine were in fresh water, in a simulated northern australian river environment....
they get quite tame and a little bit cheeky, they very quickly learn to shoot insects from your fingers, eventually up to 300mm above the tank... one of mine ended up not bothering to shoot and just leapt up out of the the tank at me when i was near...
eventually my file snakes got big enough to eat them. 
the end...


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## jack (Dec 7, 2007)

norris beat me to the post! yes to all he says... they seem to like schooling so get a few... they certainly hang out in groups where i have seen them in the wild. and yes they eat smaller fish as well...


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah mine are cheeky they spit at my face when I do water changes and bite my fingers and will jump for food aswell. All native Australian fish benefit from a bit of salt in the water so you might be surprised how many natives would do well in a brackish pond. I guess it depends on how brackish it is.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Mine spit so hard that the ceiling gets wet.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Do you get cane toads? An archer fish would eat a very small one. Just a thought.


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## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

Hey - thanks for the replies you guys - all very interesting...

To start off with I live right by a creek (esturine) which holds large quantities of archer fish - so my ambient temperature of my pond is genrally pretty close to the creek. I have a light above the pond  and the UVC light attract so many moths - but I hadn't thought about the shooting at power points problem - i will endeavour to correct this by placing the power points inside a plastic bag as no matter where I put the power points they will be able to reach them.

I do get cane toads, but the pond is above ground (it's a swimming pool haha) so the toads are unable to get in - I have seen white lipped GTFs around tho - I am worried they may try to lay their eggs in there - but I wonder if the brackish nature of the pond will deter them.

I have a creek full of 'guppies' so they will be my feeder fish. And because the pond is quite large I assume some of the guppies (and prawns) will survive by continually hiding. There's loads of rock caves and places for them to hide, so I am hoping they will breed. 

The plants are only fresh, so I am waiting for them to take root - when they do it will be a forest in there!

Well, the pond is already salted - this won't change a thing - and as my supply water comes fro Behana Gorge I assume the hardness is already quite high... Tho checking my jug there's not a lot of scale - but I would thing it would be around the 500ppm mark as a guess.

So far no one is deterring me from such 

Do you know if they would tollerate 30 - 34'C as I am worried over summer the pond will increase above 30'C - I realise I am in their local district (the archer fish) but their water is often flowing and may not reach that temperature - your thoughts?


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

If they are living in the nearby creek than 30-34 should be ok. Perhaps some shade would help. I live in Brisbane and my pond gets full sunlight and is hot to touch but the fish go down under rocks etc. So even if the surface temp was 30+, down deep under the shade of plants etc it would be much cooler.

A pool is pretty big so i guess breeding may not be out of question but collecting eggs would be very hard. Especially when it would be hard to even know if a female was pregnant in the first place. (males and females look the same by the way). 

How cool would it be if there was a glass window on the side of the pool. Maybe even have some lights in the pool so you can see them at night. I find in my pond there is better visibility with a good torch at night than at daytime (because of glare).


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## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, norris, some of that coolness exists haha... i have an underwater light for night time viewing  but no clear plastic to view them - it's all top down viewing only  but if you're good at sewing and think you can incorperate a clear sheet in my pond be my guest  the water will hold it sealed shut I am sure!

But even the top/down view is pretty good - and the water is crystal clear so you can see them so long they're not hiding.

The pond isn't in full sun, it gets late afternoon sun - but Cairns' ambient temperature is still very high! Even my snake enclosures get up to 34'C and they're inside in FULL shade! So it is a very warm area over summer.

But if they're living close by - then they should be able to handle it 

Now I just wished these plants would grow quicker so I can get some fish. i am planning on getting a bunch of feeder fish tomorrow - they will just get the bacteria etc in the pond up and hopefully, they will all breed for a sustainable amount of food for the archer fish.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Thats the beauty of salt in water, it buffs the water and makes it clear (unlike regular yellow fresh water).


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Have you thought of some grunters, or maybe a saratoga or something else (they are aggressive but it is a pool afterall). Are archer fish all thats going in there?


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## alex_c (Dec 7, 2007)

if if its possible to add a mangrove jack in their too do it they are like the rabid pitbull of the sea :lol: their great fun to have as a pet


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

I guess archer fish are good because they live on surface so are easily seen.

Although any fish would be coming to surface when foods around 

It would be pretty impressive to hold a fish or something out on a stick and watch a big saratoga jump out and grab it. (hint hint )


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## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

I can get saratoga, mangrove jacks or barra... unfortunately I just had a run of bad luck with the barra so I have decided to change to smaller aquatic species 

At present the main fish I would like is a school of archers - but you've suggested some other fish so I will keep my eye out - I am thinking for anywhere between 5 - 10 archers and the countless guppies and prawns that have no troubles hiding and growing. Apparently the prawns can breed to - though I am usure how likely that is.

Thanks again for the replies - I will take photos early in the new year - though I doubt I have the patience to wait that long haha!


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## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

Just found this cool vid [video=youtube;fhBZ40jIo4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhBZ40jIo4Q[/video]

I am thinking about putting a platform of some sort so that the bettles can land on it and the archer fish can do their thing... Any suggestions there?

Otherwise stuff will land on the water ALL the time.

Norris - are they active nocturnally? (or anyone) 

Because night is when most of the bugs occur!


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## spongebob (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm no expert on northern Australian environments but I recent revisited the Top End. Archer fish were aboundant in the thermally enhanced Berry Springs swimming hole. Fresh water and warm... 
There were heaps of marsh flies ready for the swotting on various tourists. German and pommie blood particularly favoured. The archer fish loved the feed when I swotted a few and threw them in. Great fun. They were really tame. Perhaps even hand feedable
Bob


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Not really nocturnal. However if there was a light and they could see the bugs than they would eat at night . And barra are not a good idea unless thats all you ever want. 

The problem with saratoga is that they are territorial and live near the surface so it may not like the archers (but they probably _would _breed, as long as u put them in while they were young and aloud them to grow together. 2 adults put together would fight).


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## Moreliaman (Dec 7, 2007)

norris said:


> Thats the beauty of salt in water, it buffs the water and makes it clear (unlike regular yellow fresh water).


 
activated carbon removes any water tanning, if i remember correctly tanning is caused by the fishes urine & i think marine aquarium water would turn yellow if it didnt have the correct filteration, in a marine aquarium the protien skimmer would also remove it & combined with an ozoniser, would make it crystal clear

just have some over hanging branches slim6y, can we see a pic of the set-up/pond ? sounds like its a smart set-up.

Wood also tan's the water, but again carbon will remove it.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Thats true moreliaman, thats one thing all marine systems always have (i think) - a protein skimmer.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Maybe you could put a branch over the water with a container of some sort or larvae in it ( meal worms) and as the adults come out (somehow make it only adults can escape) they crawl out onto branch and get spat down. 

I've also fed my archers meal worms by the way (archers basically eat anything- insects, crustaceans, fish, worms).


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## Moreliaman (Dec 7, 2007)

ahhh...not always norris, it is possible to run one without a skimmer, but its far better to have one as it remove's the protein (waste) before it gets absorbed by the bacteria in the filter, this is better as it also means theres going to be less nitrate produced by the bacteria.

The ozoniser eletrically charges the bubbles in the skimmer, which attracts more protein to the bubble.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Ok, my mistake


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## Moreliaman (Dec 7, 2007)

what mistake ? you havent made any that i can see:?

Im not replying to deliberately correct you mate, just happy to pass on what i know.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

Oh, my mistake


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## Moreliaman (Dec 7, 2007)

What???:lol::lol::lol:

Cant we have a pic this week slim6y ?? You never know, the world could be hit by a meteor & be ended by next year


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

He said he would early next year. It would be pretty cool to have a pond that big.

Do you have any of these fish we're talking about in uk moreliaman?


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## Moreliaman (Dec 7, 2007)

I kept some a few years ago norris, had a 6ft x 2ft x 2ft tank with archers and mudskippers, they are fascinating things to watch.


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## norris (Dec 7, 2007)

cool


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## slim6y (Dec 7, 2007)

Mudskippers - you've just described a Cairns esturine environment - I never thoguht about getting those haha!

Do they need land?

What do they eat?

No... just the archer fish - that's all i want... but mudskippers, they're better than axolotils (sp?) - hmmmm... But no - I will have prawns and archer fish... 

The reason it's taking a while MM is because I need the pond to 'settle' - it's completely refilled so there's limited amounts of bacteria and the plants were only put in yesterday - they won't have taken root just yet. And I don't yet know how they will tolerate the salty water. So before I deprive any fish of oxygen i better see that the whole set up will work


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## Moreliaman (Dec 8, 2007)

Hey Slim, It was a really interesting set-up to watch, I put in overhanging branches, with some thicker ones half in/half out the water for the skippers to climb up & some nice large bits of slate (the tank was just over half full btw) thats all the land they needed. Watch the males as they can be a bit aggressive, esp towards other males.
Sorry I can’t remember the exact species I had, perhaps you would be allowed to catch some native ones ? 
They will eat the same stuff as the archers (although they seemed to love shrimps esp.) also fed them on earthworms, wax worms, crickets etc. 
You have the advantage of it being out side, so I reckon it should do really well.
I usually find it takes about 2 weeks before you can start adding a few fish & they say it takes at least 4-5 weeks for the filter to mature, but as im sure you know that depends on the amount of waste in the water that can be absorbed, hence why fish are put in on a gradual basis for the bacteria to increase in number.
Size will also be an advantage for you, bearing in mind you’re playing with 5000ltrs, the more water you have the more stable the environment, i wouldnt have thought youll have too many problems as long as you dont put too many fish in there.
I know exactly where you’re coming from on the plants, there aren’t many freshwater ones that can take a brackish environment & marine ones also struggle because there isn’t enough salt !!, You’ll just have to try em I guess or see if you can get some native ones perhaps? (Although if plants are struggling you could gradually add more freshwater as most brackish water fish will survive in much lower salt densities ) 
The mangroves you suggested should take off & most plants will grow really fast with all that natural sunlight, so if you don’t mind doing a bit of regular trimming !!
Personally id want to start of part of the food chain & chuck 10-20 female guppies in, don’t bother with males as im sure there will be plenty of them 6 months down the line:lol:
It would also increase the number of bacteria when it makes the ammonia levels spike quicker.
Cant wait for a pic, sounds like a really cool set-up youve got there m8
Still waiting on the velvet worm pics too from hornet !!:lol:
Busy people!!


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## Moreliaman (Dec 8, 2007)

Forgot too add, I'd only use carbon in filters when its needed & then remove it when youre finished, it can remove chemicals like iron which are benifical to plants & youd be wasting your time if you put any treatments in (i'll will remove those too).
Also remember carbon only usually lasts a few months before it needs re-charging or changing, but it can be left in longer as a good porus material for the bacteria to colonise.
Really carbon should only be used when needed & then removed from the filter once its done its purpose.


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## norris (Dec 8, 2007)

Hey moreliamna, can carbon start to release the stuff that it absorbs. I heard you should put it in, then take it out a couple of days later or it will release what it filters back into the tank.


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## Moreliaman (Dec 8, 2007)

Dont take this as gospel, but i dont think it does, it just absorb's to the point of saturation & then stops because it cant take anymore in, I guess it could leach some out, just depends on what its absorbed....you can re-charge it a few times by soaking it in a salt solution for 24-48 hrs, after the 3-4th time its better to throw it away & start with new.
And activated carbon is better than just plain carbon.


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## norris (Dec 8, 2007)

Ok, thanks. I don't even think I really need it anyway. I virtually always have carbon in my tank, but I don't think I will any more. I didn't realize it could effect plants.


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