# The dole



## jellis (Apr 1, 2011)

How do people on this site feel about people on the dole?
does any one have any ideas on how it should be reformed, 
or even if it should / needs to be reformed?

not looking to start to much of a ****** fight but i 
suspect this is going to be a touchy topic

cheers josh


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## chase77 (Apr 1, 2011)

the dole serves a great purpose, but there are heaps that are happy to sit on it and not bother working. they dont get much and i dont know how they do it. Is it an important issue? i dont think so! some reforms may be needed but not as extreme as Abbott wants. There are more important issues that abbott should concern himself with, but i think he is just trying to score as many political points as possible to keep gillard on the back foot. but hey, thats politics nowaday isn't it.

Chase


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## Dipcdame (Apr 1, 2011)

Being on a permanent Disability Support Payment, I find it horribly boring, it would be terrible being on the dole, but chin up, there IS worse! That's why I am so much into my herps and cross stitch


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 1, 2011)

I think the dole should be a stop gap measure only. If there is a job, no matter how menial, it should be taken by any able bodied person on the dole. 

I don't think Abbot's work for the dole and relocation allowance is a bad idea. Then again, I think conscription should also be considered for long time dole recipients. I've had to work some pretty nasty jobs to get where I am now, including cleaning toilets and crawling around semi naked in ponds cleaning up mud.


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## Bez84 (Apr 1, 2011)

Im on the dole and i see why some sit on it, its like centrelink dont give a toss what you do.
I mean i was working for a company that closed down so i was keen to find more work and they focus on people who have been unemployed for a long time and not those who have freshly lost there jobs.
Which is stupid they should be helping those who are fresh out of work and havent been sitting around for ages slowly losing heart cause some places its hard to find full time employment unless ur 14 and want to work at maccas and in the end you just get sick of the system .


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 1, 2011)

It's all political talk. The bottom line is that unemployment is big business, There is a whole employment sector relying on people to be out of work. If you reduce unemployment then the workload for that sector is reduced by the same amount.
The unemployed also help to level the economy.


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## jellis (Apr 1, 2011)

i have a problem with the people who i know that are dole bludgers.
they are even happy to admit it.
my thoughts are if your able to work you should.
people whinge and bitch about the lack of work in there area.
but are not willing to move for a job.
i think it does need to be reformed.
students, elderly people, and people who are unable to work are the only people who should recieve the dole.

i like the idea of conscription. and if it was compulsary to complete a trade whilst being conscripted it would work perfectly

i wonder if we would still have a skill shortage then

cheers josh


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 1, 2011)

Why have a problem? let them do their thing while your making your living and able to hold your head high. it should be of no concern.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

jellis said:


> i have a problem with the people who i know that are dole bludgers.
> they are even happy to admit it.
> my thoughts are if your able to work you should.
> people whinge and bitch about the lack of work in there area.
> ...


 So women with small children who's husbands leave them or vise versa should get nothing for their kids or are all single mothers bad women that have babies to get the pension??


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellis if all the others on your list suddenly found employment the price of basic essentials would become even dearer putting more pressure on those you say deserve it.


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellis, are you a troll?, your first two threads are just a little touchy......


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## sutto75 (Apr 1, 2011)

How much is the dole worth? How much do you get? I'm sure its bugger all i have never been on the dole and would hate to be on it.

However I'm sure there are bad people on their happy with their 200 bucks a week (not sure but sounds good) and others who can't stand it but

are a little less educated than most find it hard to get work even in a town with lots of no skill jobs, that's who we are going to hurt if we 

Take it away or say it's only for 3 months then you're on your own..... We live in Australia the best country in the world with the best social support in the world why do 

People try and turn us into the USA where there are two kinds of people haves and have not's.


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## Defective (Apr 1, 2011)

i am on Newstart (formerly known as the dole) only because of 2 main reasons
1. i want to work but am struggling to get any
2. i qualify for the disability pension but refuse to have it just because my back is shot and i'm an epileptic

i have skills that can be of use but i will never drive so theres an X on the box. my dream job was to get in the RAAF but that will never happen. i don't enjoy not earning my own money and i'm constantly reminded of it everytime i fight with mum. 
it's not pleasent and i feel like scum and that theres a giant label on me saying 'lazy ******** here!' 

i have cold canvased,applied online, and scoured newspapers for the past 6yrs and i've had 1 job as a school cleaner that i lasted 2mths before i was fired because of post operative pain (3weeks later when i started back) so yeah. i'm happy to work and do anything but it has to be in my capabilities.

so you can generalise those on the dole all you like but what gets me narky is the gits and twats that think we're all the same...lazy and just sit on our butts. well i'm here to say this little black duck isn't, i volunteer and treat that like a job because nothing else has come up and the atmosphere is great. i work 9am-5pm (unless there's nothing for me to do) mondays and fridays and love it.


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## JAS101 (Apr 1, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> I think the dole should be a stop gap measure only. If there is a job, no matter how menial, it should be taken by any able bodied person on the dole.
> 
> I don't think Abbot's work for the dole and relocation allowance is a bad idea. Then again, I think conscription should also be considered for long time dole recipients. I've had to work some pretty nasty jobs to get where I am now, including cleaning toilets and crawling around semi naked in ponds cleaning up mud.


 when u have been on the dole for more then 52 weeks then u have to do one of the following :
get a job , do volertry work [ like for the salvo`s ] or enter into a work for the dole scheme.
jells , unless u are or have been on the dole u have NO idea on how easy/hard it is to get a job .


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## cleobhp (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't mind paying for people on a disability pension or the elderly, but what I don't like is people who will work for a short time and then get themselves fired just so they can go back on the dole. In my line of work I get that a lot we put staff on, pay them $700 to $800 a week and then they stop turning up for work and within a month they are back on the dole. These types of ppl never wanted to work in the first place even though they would be $500 to $600 a week better off, also I hate woman having kids just to go on the single parents pension, I know there are ppl that genuinely need it I'm not having a go at u but its the teenagers that go out and have kids just to get $8000 or whatever it is, and just keep having them so they don't have to work, its crap, and then they get discounts to put their kids in childcare while they are down at the pub, or out running around that's what I don't like.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

cleobhp said:


> I don't mind paying for people on a disability pension or the elderly, but what I don't like is people who will work for a short time and then get themselves fired just so they can go back on the dole. In my line of work I get that a lot we put staff on, pay them $700 to $800 a week and then they stop turning up for work and within a month they are back on the dole. These types of ppl never wanted to work in the first place even though they would be $500 to $600 a week better off, also I hate woman having kids just to go on the single parents pension, I know there are ppl that genuinely need it I'm not having a go at u but its the teenagers that go out and have kids just to get $8000 or whatever it is, and just keep having them so they don't have to work, its crap, and then they get discounts to put their kids in childcare while they are down at the pub, or out running around that's what I don't like.



You can't put your child in full time child care if you are not working or studying, it is also statistically proven that way more women over the age of 35 with careers and working husbands took advantage of the baby bonus, teenage pregnancy is no higher or lower than it was before the baby bonus. This is just another media perpetrated stereotype to make single mothers look bad, it has been going on for years, since I was young for some reason single parents are the scourge of mankind. There are actually economic papers written advising governments that getting rid of sole parent payments is the easiest way to lower welfare debt as it is the one thing no-one will complain about.


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## Defective (Apr 1, 2011)

i don't like it either (teens getting knocked up at 14) but all parents can do is educate. i'll never be a parent so i won't get that bonus and never know the pleasures and pains of raising a child and the issues that can arise but i do think if a teenager is going to have a child so young then the baby bonus needs to be given another way not a straight cash injection into the bank.


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## craig.a.c (Apr 1, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Why have a problem? let them do their thing while your making your living and able to hold your head high. it should be of no concern.


 

So you don't have a problem with paying your taxes so some of the dole bludgers can pocket your tax money and do nothing to earn it??

Work for the Dole. Simple, they turn up somewhere to do a bit of work, volunteer, whatever. If they don't turn up for it then they don't get the dole.


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## slim6y (Apr 1, 2011)

I'd like to see drug testing for the dole coming in - plus alcohol etc etc - there's no reason why drug users should use this money for drugs.

I believe those who lose their jobs are entitled to the dole... Those who can't get work need to be trained or work for the dole (even a few hours a week).


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## gemrock2hot (Apr 1, 2011)

centerlink has made it easier for the "dole bludgers" instead of having to go into centerlink and hand in you fornightly job search you do it on the net now and answer a couple of yes or no questions.... way to easy. and then once every 2months hand in a sheet with all the jobs you have looked for in the past 2 months. Its just making it easier for the bludgers they should make it so you have to go in and hand in resume's at shops and get them sign something saying u handed in a resume. Being a new mum the parent pension is very helpful but they should have more things to help new mums look for part time work if they want. I have always had a job since i was 15 and only went 3 months with out work right up till 1 month b4 i had my daughter and i miss being able to work. I dont think there is much anyone is able to do about young teenage pregnancy's maybe lower the baby bonus from 5 grand to maybe 1 grand for girls under the age of 18 and only in small payments or some kind of discount for formula and baby clothes


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 1, 2011)

craig.a.c said:


> So you don't have a problem with paying your taxes so some of the dole bludgers can pocket your tax money and do nothing to earn it??
> 
> Work for the Dole. Simple, they turn up somewhere to do a bit of work, volunteer, whatever. If they don't turn up for it then they don't get the dole.


 

They will only splurge it somewhere else, and like I said earlier, unemployment is big business, it serves a purpose in our economy.

I don't believe in work for the dole, if the work is available then it should be given to people as employment at full wages,
I believe in making it a less disposable income, EG food stamps, transport vouchers, direct debits for accomodation etc


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## zeke (Apr 1, 2011)

i am on the dole i have a job but im not getting many hours now. i know heaps of people who sit on it. ive been on it for years now. i atually want to get off it but finding an employer who will give someone without alot of skills is hard they all expect you to be like 14 with 5 years exp and so fourth


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## Defective (Apr 1, 2011)

i technically don't have to look for any jobs unless i have a meeting with my Employment co-ordinator once a fortnight but i do what she tells me and she says fill the sheet by next meeting that sheet is filled both sides not just one. i actually hate the new form submission system its a pain, you have to remember to go online and if i'm having a '2000 light years away day' then i'll forget if no one is home.


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## gemrock2hot (Apr 1, 2011)

Lambert said:


> i technically don't have to look for any jobs unless i have a meeting with my Employment co-ordinator once a fortnight but i do what she tells me and she says fill the sheet by next meeting that sheet is filled both sides not just one. i actually hate the new form submission system its a pain, you have to remember to go online and if i'm having a '2000 light years away day' then i'll forget if no one is home.



yeh i think they have changed it to try and stop the long lines in centerlink but why not employ more ppl to make the lines shorter makes sence dont u think lol


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

gemrock2hot said:


> centerlink has made it easier for the "dole bludgers" instead of having to go into centerlink and hand in you fornightly job search you do it on the net now and answer a couple of yes or no questions.... way to easy. and then once every 2months hand in a sheet with all the jobs you have looked for in the past 2 months. Its just making it easier for the bludgers they should make it so you have to go in and hand in resume's at shops and get them sign something saying u handed in a resume. Being a new mum the parent pension is very helpful but they should have more things to help new mums look for part time work if they want. I have always had a job since i was 15 and only went 3 months with out work right up till 1 month b4 i had my daughter and i miss being able to work. I dont think there is much anyone is able to do about young teenage pregnancy's maybe lower the baby bonus from 5 grand to maybe 1 grand for girls under the age of 18 and only in small payments or some kind of discount for formula and baby clothes


 So it's ok for women who's husbands earn $100000 to get the baby bonus, but not young girls who made a mistake, their children don't deserve any sort of start in life, is that what your saying. And as far as the dole being easier, I don't know what it is like where you live but here you have to go for interviews with a job network case worker every fortnight, miss one appointment and your suspended. As far as drug testing goes, unfortunately most drug users are on disability pension and don't have to look for work, they just have to check in with a social worker every couple of weeks.


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## Defective (Apr 1, 2011)

they have plenty of employees they just cant be bothered utilising them, therefore making lines and waiting times ridonkulous



kaotikjezta said:


> So it's ok for women who's husbands earn $100000 to get the baby bonus, but not young girls who made a mistake, their children don't deserve any sort of start in life, is that what your saying. And as far as the dole being easier, I don't know what it is like where you live but here you have to go for interviews with a job network case worker every fortnight, miss one appointment and your suspended. As far as drug testing goes, unfortunately most drug users are on disability pension and don't have to look for work, they just have to check in with a social worker every couple of weeks.



i hear yah hun!! it's an inconvieniance i've learnt to live with!


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## gemrock2hot (Apr 1, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> So it's ok for women who's husbands earn $100000 to get the baby bonus, but not young girls who made a mistake, their children don't deserve any sort of start in life, is that what your saying. And as far as the dole being easier, I don't know what it is like where you live but here you have to go for interviews with a job network case worker every fortnight, miss one appointment and your suspended. As far as drug testing goes, unfortunately most drug users are on disability pension and don't have to look for work, they just have to check in with a social worker every couple of weeks.



dont they have an income limit on it? And im just making suggestions on how the system can improve not saying that kids dont deserve a good start to life. How can it be a mistake when most (not all) young girls know the consequence of having unprotected sex? ok there are the exceptions like having protected sex and still gettin pregnant. Most of the young girl i see or know just spend the money on stupid stuff or drugs and none actually goes towards the baby. i think its good that if you dont turn up to your appointments then your pay gets suspended makes lazy people get off their ***


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## giglamesh (Apr 1, 2011)

zeke said:


> i am on the dole i have a job but im not getting many hours now. i know heaps of people who sit on it. ive been on it for years now. i atually want to get off it but finding an employer who will give someone without alot of skills is hard they all expect you to be like 14 with 5 years exp and so fourth



isnt that illegal? pretty sure people have gone to prison for it.


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## JAS101 (Apr 1, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> isnt that illegal? pretty sure people have gone to prison for it.


 nope , if its under a certain number of hours per week , u can still get newstart and do part time work .


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

gemrock2hot said:


> dont they have an income limit on it? And im just making suggestions on how the system can improve not saying that kids dont deserve a good start to life. How can it be a mistake when most (not all) young girls know the consequence of having unprotected sex? ok there are the exceptions like having protected sex and still gettin pregnant. Most of the young girl i see or know just spend the money on stupid stuff or drugs and none actually goes towards the baby. i think its good that if you dont turn up to your appointments then your pay gets suspended makes lazy people get off their ***



The only just recently put a limit on it, when labour got in. Howard introduced the baby bonus to entice middle class career woman to have babies as there is a huge gap between old people and young people leaving the area of able bodied workers short. Too many women wanted a career first so Howard brought it in and it worked. The labour government then got hassled about 'middle class welfare' and put a limit on it but the limit is something ridiculous like $125000. As for young girls blowing the baby bonus, my oldest son was a teenage parent, before the baby bonus existed and they did it very hard for a while, couldn't get work, too young, couldn't get accommodation, too young. It is not as easy as some people think being a teenage parent and you lose your childhood. They maybe should have known better but it was the first time for both of them and they were unlucky. She had actually asked her mother if she could get birth control and her mother refused thinking that would stop her.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 1, 2011)

And when you give the baby bonus to the middle and upper class, they generally give birth to potentially productive offspring. Perpetual dole bludgers usually give birth to the next generation of dole recipients. 

Let me just step into the other room to put on my flame suit 





kaotikjezta said:


> The only just recently put a limit on it, when labour got in. Howard introduced the baby bonus to entice middle class career woman to have babies as there is a huge gap between old people and young people leaving the area of able bodied workers short. Too many women wanted a career first so Howard brought it in and it worked. The labour government then got hassled about 'middle class welfare' and put a limit on it but the limit is something ridiculous like $125000. As for young girls blowing the baby bonus, my oldest son was a teenage parent, before the baby bonus existed and they did it very hard for a while, couldn't get work, too young, couldn't get accommodation, too young. It is not as easy as some people think being a teenage parent and you lose your childhood. They maybe should have known better but it was the first time for both of them and they were unlucky. She had actually asked her mother if she could get birth control and her mother refused thinking that would stop her.


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## gemrock2hot (Apr 1, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> The only just recently put a limit on it, when labour got in. Howard introduced the baby bonus to entice middle class career woman to have babies as there is a huge gap between old people and young people leaving the area of able bodied workers short. Too many women wanted a career first so Howard brought it in and it worked. The labour government then got hassled about 'middle class welfare' and put a limit on it but the limit is something ridiculous like $125000. As for young girls blowing the baby bonus, my oldest son was a teenage parent, before the baby bonus existed and they did it very hard for a while, couldn't get work, too young, couldn't get accommodation, too young. It is not as easy as some people think being a teenage parent and you lose your childhood. They maybe should have known better but it was the first time for both of them and they were unlucky. She had actually asked her mother if she could get birth control and her mother refused thinking that would stop her.


ahhh ok fair enough i guess its the inconsiderate ones that spoil it for even one else i guess in general centerlink needs to review a few things and make it harder for bludgers and easier for the ones that actually need it


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## Bez84 (Apr 1, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> isnt that illegal? pretty sure people have gone to prison for it.


I did some labouring work made about $2000 in a fortnight claimed it with centrelink and they still payed me $100.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> And when you give the baby bonus to the middle and upper class, they generally give birth to potentially productive offspring. Perpetual dole bludgers usually give birth to the next generation of dole recipients.
> 
> Let me just step into the other room to put on my flame suit


So it is ok to bring a child into the world so you can claim money you don't actually need, that is a great value system to hand down to your children and I it may make them more productive but I'd rather have a nice hearted dole bludger for a kid than a mean spirited, greedy workaholic. Don't even get me started on the ongoing use of stereotypes being thrown around by some ignorant people.


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## Jackrabbit (Apr 1, 2011)

I think you should only get the dole for half the amount of time you have been working and paying taxes.

I think in the US it is limited by time. I think it should be cut off after a time unless a genuine attempt to work and hold a job is made.

I know there ate other consequences if people loss the dole but maybe they might think about staying on it long term.

Perhaps we could offer a location swap. Long term dole bludgers who don't want to work can swap with asylum seekers from the middle east. that way they won't have to work because there aren't any jobs and living is cheap.


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## Bez84 (Apr 1, 2011)

Jackrabbit said:


> I think you should only get the dole for half the amount of time you have been working and paying taxes.
> 
> I think in the US it is limited by time. I think it should be cut off after a time unless a genuine attempt to work and hold a job is made.
> 
> ...



Sweet so that would mean i can be on the dole for 4 years seeing how ive been working full time for at least 8 years and have never been on the dole and have always earned my money and been proud of it.
And has only been the last few months that ive been forced to go on the "dole" due to owner of a company i worked for for many years desideing he want to travel australia in a van and so closed up shop.
The system really is a joke, ive found it hard to find "full time " work in this town as everyone wants to hire teens cause there cheaper.
The people at centrelink dont give a crap about helping u find work, to them your just another number and they themselves do not want to work.
I go in there to hand in paper work and they stare at you and say couldnt u do this online...sorry for giving them something to do.
And the jobfind agencys are worse they have streams 1 2 etc you start off and they wont bumb u up into a stream where they can actually pull there finger out and give u some real assistance until something changes eg. you become homeless or go bloody crazy with depression etc.
Until youve had to live under the pressure of constant job knock backs and struggling just to bloody eat and keep a roof over your head then you cant really bitch about people on the dole....some of us would give anything to find "stable" work and get out of the rut...


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

Bez84 said:


> Sweet so that would mean i can be on the dole for 4 years seeing how ive been working full time for at least 8 years and have never been on the dole and have always earned my money and been proud of it.
> And has only been the last few months that ive been forced to go on the "dole" due to owner of a company i worked for for many years desideing he want to travel australia in a van and so closed up shop.
> The system really is a joke, ive found it hard to find "full time " work in this town as everyone wants to hire teens cause there cheaper.
> The people at centrelink dont give a crap about helping u find work, to them your just another number and they themselves do not want to work.
> ...


The other thing is, job seeker companies are private. The longer they can keep you as a client the more they get paid, they get a bonus if they get you a job but if they don't they get paid for every interview, every course they run etc. They make way more profit keeping people out of work than getting people into it.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 1, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> So it is ok to bring a child into the world so you can claim money you don't actually need, that is a great value system to hand down to your children and I it may make them more productive but I'd rather have a nice hearted dole bludger for a kid than a mean spirited, greedy workaholic. Don't even get me started on the ongoing use of stereotypes being thrown around by some ignorant people.


 
Is income really a measure of how much you need a government handout? 

Nearly all of the kids I know that come from middle class families are little angels with loving and caring personalities. Most of the kids I see who have parents who are on the dole are obnoxious little mongrels, a consequence of their upbringing. Sure some are nice but the vast majority are less than angelic. I don't blame them; you have to consider their role models. If they are brought up thinking that the government owes them, then they'll never break away from their dole bludger mentality. 

As to stereotyping and ignorance, sure I am probably ignorant but the stereotyping is a result of the actions of the small minority of bludgers receiving social security payments. I'd definitely prefer to be stereotyped as a workaholic than a dole bludger.

No offense meant to you or anyone in particular.


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## Bez84 (Apr 1, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> The other thing is, job seeker companies are private. The longer they can keep you as a client the more they get paid, they get a bonus if they get you a job but if they don't they get paid for every interview, every course they run etc. They make way more profit keeping people out of work than getting people into it.


Yeah thats true and some are worse then others, i recently did a "intro to trades" course mainly dealing in construction where i basically built a heap of internal walls for nova skill and i say i built i mean i built by the end i was the only person left in the group all the other drop kicks didnt bother to show up.
I didnt really learn any new skills cause i pretty much knew my way around power tools etc as u do if u have a shed and workshop.
At the end of the course i was supposed to get a certificate and they were meant to work hard to promote me to local people looking for hard working blokes.
I never got the certificate nor did i ever hear from them again with job offers.
I rang them up and they said due to me not completeing a tiny page of pointless theory work i wouldnt get it and this is after i built there walls and the tradesman who was teaching us told the bloke running novaskill that if i wasnt there the job would never have been done.....so in the end i just felt used and tossed out....when the whole point was to boost my spirit.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 1, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> Is income really a measure of how much you need a government handout?
> 
> Nearly all of the kids I know that come from middle class families are little angels with loving and caring personalities. Most of the kids I see who have parents who are on the dole are obnoxious little mongrels, a consequence of their upbringing. Sure some are nice but the vast majority are less than angelic. I don't blame them; you have to consider their role models. If they are brought up thinking that the government owes them, then they'll never break away from their dole bludger mentality.
> 
> ...


Yes, angelic in front of their parents and other adults maybe. The majority of them want for nothing and don't mind rubbing that in the faces of less well off kids. Plus, do you think if kids grow up seeing they're parents struggling to put food on the table from one week to the next they are going to grow up and want that for they're own families. Maybe in some cases like breeds like but it very often has the opposite effect.



Bez84 said:


> Yeah thats true and some are worse then others, i recently did a "intro to trades" course mainly dealing in construction where i basically built a heap of internal walls for nova skill and i say i built i mean i built by the end i was the only person left in the group all the other drop kicks didnt bother to show up.
> I didnt really learn any new skills cause i pretty much knew my way around power tools etc as u do if u have a shed and workshop.
> At the end of the course i was supposed to get a certificate and they were meant to work hard to promote me to local people looking for hard working blokes.
> I never got the certificate nor did i ever hear from them again with job offers.
> I rang them up and they said due to me not completeing a tiny page of pointless theory work i wouldnt get it and this is after i built there walls and the tradesman who was teaching us told the bloke running novaskill that if i wasnt there the job would never have been done.....so in the end i just felt used and tossed out....when the whole point was to boost my spirit.



I know it is pathetic, I had a friend that wanted to do a horticulture course and the job network insisted he do their stupid looking for work course first, they ran it so they got paid for it. By the time he finished the horticulture course had finished and the government cut funding to run more so he missed out completely on a possible option for a career he was interested in.


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## FAY (Apr 1, 2011)

gemrock2hot said:


> dont they have an income limit on it?



Apparently not, even Sarah Murdoch is entitled to the baby bonus.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 1, 2011)

I must clarify and apologise for any legitimate dole recipients, particularly those with children. I live in one of the most socially disadvantaged cities in Australia and my observations/opinions are made from my interactions with these disadvantaged people. I'm sure most families living on the dole have children that are perfectly mannered, loving and caring.

For those who are truly dole bludgers, I offer no apology.


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## Defective (Apr 1, 2011)

There's also a thing called working credits. You can acquire 1000 credits and when you get a job you get you jobs pay plus full centrelink pay until all those credits are gone and they take 48 a fortnight so it doesn't take long


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## -Matt- (Apr 2, 2011)

I have been on and off the dole now for the past year, the work I do is seasonal and for months at a time I could work 5 days a week and 40+ hours in that week, but then there could be a few weeks or even a month where I am only working around 20 hours a week and sometimes less. So I have stayed on the dole and declared all of my earnings just so I still get some money from the government when I earn below the threshold to survive in those 'down' times. That meant that I still needed to go to all the meetings at Centrelink and whatever job agency they assign me to, this also meant that I was expected to go in every second monday for an hour and use their computers to look for work (even though I had a job and a computer at home). If I didn't do this they would cut my payments off completely and I would have to start from scratch. So because I work I was forever ringing up saying that I couldn't attend any meetings that was expected to go to, the employment agency didn't like this and threatened to get Centrelink to cut me off completely unless I started taking days off work to attend their 'important' job search meetings! I couldn't believe this, they are meant to be helping people find jobs and keeping them in work yet they are punishing me for doing the right thing and never actually offered me a single job opportunity in that year... At that point I told them where to go, with a few nasty words thrown in and will now endevour to survive without Centrelink in the quiet times when there isn't much work. However, if I can find a permanent full-time job I will take it!


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## captive_fairy (Apr 2, 2011)

craig.a.c said:


> Work for the Dole. Simple, they turn up somewhere to do a bit of work, volunteer, whatever. If they don't turn up for it then they don't get the dole.


 
That's what you would think, but they don't really work for it...
I dunno about all places, but my partner was on the dole for a bit. He broke his ankle, and when it was fixed, he had problems getting work.
He hates sitting around doing nothing. Always has to be doing something.
When he did the work for the dole progamm, they were building a retianing wall and pulling out weeds and the instructor told him to slow down with the work, or they (I'm assuming he meant his bigger bosses) would expect that much done all the time, and he'd make the others look bad

I also believe that there should be something more to help the mothers get back in to work.
I receieve parenting payments, but barely enough to live on, and I want to go back to work.
However, everyone tells me I'm underqualified or overqualified (they want people who they can pretty much leave to run the place, or school kids that they can pay next to nothing)
I want to get my diploma (which I can't afford), So I spoke to Centrelink.
To get it, I'd have to go on newstart, cutting my payments almost in half, but they would cover the course.(dunno how we are supposed to survive, but at least I'd be qualified), 
I don't get why they can't help the parents who want to go back to work too, to get off the payments


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## bump73 (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> And as far as the dole being easier, I don't know what it is like where you live but here you have to go for interviews with a job network case worker every fortnight, miss one appointment and your suspended.



Oh my god you have to show up once a fortnight:shock: That must be so hard I really feel for you, I guess all of us working full time don't realise how easy we have it having to show up at least five days a week:lol::lol:

Ben


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## Fusion-Reptiles (Apr 2, 2011)

the dole is 440 a fortnight wow, they are really living it up and partying on with the average rent being 200 and power going up 30% they really have it easy,
1 third of the Australian population are under the poverty line lets kick the dole away and make it 2/3rds 
the percent of "dole bludgers" are minimal, my understanding is that 1 you have to sign 2 agreements 1 saying you will look for 
a minimum of 4 different jobs a week for centerlink and sign up to a job network at the job network you sign one with them saying you will look for 10 jobs a week for them, then you have 6 short coursed to do including resume updates,cold canvasing, job seeking tactics 
cold calling, interview techniques and advancing job outlook (making you more employable)
after those are done you have to either further your education travel at least 90 mins away from your home to look for work.
these are renewed ever month. 
its not like you can get money every 2 weeks for doing sweet fk all also its equivalent to 2 payed days a week, and after 3 months u have to do either work for the dole or work at a charity at leat 2 days a week or your cut off. 
so in essence if you cant find work in 3 months you MUST work 2 days a week to EARN your payment.
also people on the dole pay 20 a week in TAX.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

why should i pay my taxes to keep someone that wants to be something they cant. if your unemployed take any job till something better comes up. your more employable if you have a job than not having one. if i had my choice there wouldnt be the dole or anything else you wish to call it


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## Fusion-Reptiles (Apr 2, 2011)

wranga said:


> why should i pay my taxes to keep someone that wants to be something they cant. if your unemployed take any job till something better comes up. your more employable if you have a job than not having one. if i had my choice there wouldnt be the dole or anything else you wish to call it


ok then when you get the sack or your company goes under or u stuff up, DONT SIGN UP see how you go with ZERO income, fool.
take away the dole and watch crime increase 500% minimum.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

Otori said:


> ok then when you get the sack or your company goes under or u stuff up, DONT SIGN UP see how you go with ZERO income, fool.
> take away the dole and watch crime increase 500% minimum.


 
so im a fool am i? is there a need to get personal? maybe your one of the scum that live on the dole and with all your spare time you fill it in by ripping some poor hard working person off. crime will allways be about, but its ok if you want to find another excuse for these lazy dole bludgers and the jobs they fill their time in with. get a real job and pay some tax instead of thinking the country should keep you because you cant be bothered helping yourself


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## Fusion-Reptiles (Apr 2, 2011)

actually i run my own photography shop, 
i would bet i pay more tax than you the only scum here is 
uneducated fools who think they know it all because they read 1 or 2 news stories
how about you read some of the info on REAL centerlink payments and the rules the "bludgers" have to abide by.
there is FOI for a reason the main one being that it allows people to access information untainted by mass media and political agenda. 
as stated previously, 220 a week isnt Ripping off the government what ripping off really is, is this, when we give billions to Indonesia/Pakistan/India etc etc to help people in disasters only to hand it openly to the criminals in each country leaving the people in devastation.
then having a disaster here in Australia and giving them (our own tax paying working aussies ) sweet FA 
before you start taking away from the bottom 1/3rd of the country and increasing crime, hate and poverty in a "lucky" country,
why not make the top 5% of the wealth owners pay their fair share!


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## -Matt- (Apr 2, 2011)

wranga said:


> so im a fool am i? is there a need to get personal? maybe your one of the scum that live on the dole and with all your spare time you fill it in by ripping some poor hard working person off. crime will allways be about, but its ok if you want to find another excuse for these lazy dole bludgers and the jobs they fill their time in with. get a real job and pay some tax instead of thinking the country should keep you because you cant be bothered helping yourself



You really have no idea do you?


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 2, 2011)

Otori said:


> actually i run my own photography shop,
> i would bet i pay more tax than you the only scum here is
> uneducated fools who think they know it all because they read 1 or 2 news stories
> how about you read some of the info on REAL centerlink payments and the rules the "bludgers" have to abide by.
> ...



Nice socialist attitude - distribute the wealth from the rich to the poor and make everyone equal. The rich are usually rich because they choose to get an education and reap the benefits. There are the other rich people that work hard, sacrifice and save to be wealthy. I have the greatest respect for the latter and do not think that they should pay more than the already do to pay those who choose not to work. They already contribute far more towards society than their dole receiving counterparts.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

Otori said:


> actually i run my own photography shop,
> i would bet i pay more tax than you the only scum here is
> uneducated fools who think they know it all because they read 1 or 2 news stories
> how about you read some of the info on REAL centerlink payments and the rules the "bludgers" have to abide by.
> ...


 
why should i pay more because i make the effort and work so i get ahead in life. you may run your own business, but think how much better off you would be if your taxes were lower because you werent paying for others that couldnt be bothered getting off their bums and having ago. i struggle to pay two homes off, put up with some scum ripping me off. maybe if i didnt have to pay as much tax i wouldnt have to struggle as much while the dole bludgers had the dole taken from them had to find a job. if your idea is right why not give them more on the dole so theres no crime? it wont work because most are greedy and dont care about others



-Matt- said:


> You really have no idea do you?



probably not. but then ive probably got as much of an idea as you. we all have or own opinions dont we. so what makes my idea wrong and yours right?


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## -Matt- (Apr 2, 2011)

wranga said:


> probably not. but then ive probably got as much of an idea as you. we all have or own opinions dont we. so what makes my idea wrong and yours right?



Firstly I am going to say that I am also against dole 'bludgers' and I know that there are a lot out there. However, through growing up in a small town where permanent jobs are scarce (even if you do have many qualifications) that Centrelink plays an important role in helping those out that are actually actively looking for work or working casually and not earning enough to support themselves. Also what happens to those that are made redundant? They cannot always just fall straight into another job... How are they expected to survive whilst they are looking for a new job, especially if they are only qualified in that one position? Secondly, I don't want to sound racist but in the town that I grew up in there was a large aboriginal population and many jobs were advertised by the job agencies as 'indigenous only' in an attempt to get the aboriginals into full time positions. The indigenous weren't interested in these jobs and were much happier to just live off their government payments, whereas those that were willing to work are stuck on the dole because they are not 'eligable' for these jobs when they would much prefer to be out in the workforce.


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## Fusion-Reptiles (Apr 2, 2011)

the top 5% of wealth owners in Australia are *proven* tax dodgers and loop hole users because they can afford to hire QC's and top flight accountants.
also after the liberal leadership, education was killed off for poorer people, creating a low educated, low payed workforce. they also brought in the GST after the quote "there will NEVER be a GST when im voted in" then didnt lower already inplace taxes to offset the GST , then the liberals also brought in baby bonus to get people to breed knowing only the poorest will breed to keep the cheap labor force coming, then gave more than 50% of the education funding to high end PRIVATE schools then made the university's of Australia a business not an education center and making the next generation of pooer people unable to access uni and ones that do have a hard time knowing they leave uni with massive hex debit to repay thats if they get in because between spots reserved for private school leavers and new Australians its very hard to get in.
this leaves a large portion of the bottom 3rd of the population with VERY limited resources to gain long term permanent employment.
sure their are a few dole bludgers but in the grand scheme of it its a small price to pay for having a very small security net for the vast majority of us to fall on if we lose our job.
the simple fact is this 
if you lost your job would u like it if th government didnt have the dole and left you high and dry to lose it all and end up homeless until you find a job?
i very much doubt it.


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## Defective (Apr 2, 2011)

wranga said:


> why should i pay my taxes to keep someone that wants to be something they cant. if your unemployed take any job till something better comes up. your more employable if you have a job than not having one. if i had my choice there wouldnt be the dole or anything else you wish to call it


 
ohh geez, and what about people like myself who will never be in their dream job because of a stupid disability. FFS i can't even be in the passengers seat of a *****ing ambulance as a non-urgent patient transfer officer because i'll never drive. it's gits like you wranga that piss me off no end because of your lack of understanding as to why most people are on centrelink payments and your ability to be judge and jury all at once and label us.

it's not a matter of just taking any job, have a look in the paper and actually read what the job advertisments say or on line i'll give you an idea
SEEK - Sales Person - Full Time Position Job in Adelaide

i have been job hunting for 6yrs and had a cleaning job but in those jobs you can't get sick because you risk losing your job like i did (had my appendix out)
so until you get a grasp on peoples situations and understand why they're on payments, shut ya pie hole and go afk unless its contructive because people like me are sick of being put in the 'lazy twats' group when there's clearly a reason we can't get jobs!

only standing up for those with a disablitiy and that wanna work! Gods sakes!


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## beeman (Apr 2, 2011)

This is one thred where you will never get agreement on anything!

On one side you have the so called disadvantaged people and on the other the working tax payer.

I for one have NEVER been out of work for any longer that 2 days, Why because i will work at anything to keep the $$$$ comming in and not sit back and piss and moan because i cant have the job i want. 

I will conceed there are a few exceptions but they are in the minority not the majority, There are some genuine needs out there.

Where i live and have done all my life i have seen the development of 3 generations that have never worked a day in their lives but seem to think that the government owes them a living, Now who funds the government? Yes those gready people like myself and my family that work 70 hour weeks and pay large amounts of tax.

There is plenty of work out there for those that want to get ahead and not be reliant on the system you just have to be willing to have a crack at what ever comes up untill a further opportunities arise.


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm sure you've read into the comment way too far. People with disabilities do have issues getting jobs. It's the completely able bodied people that cbf working that I agree with wranga's comments. Am I in my dream job? No, will I ever be ? No. Due to eyesight issues I could never be in my dream job. I left school worked for a casual employment agency, rather than go on centrelink. Put myself through tafe to further my chance of getting an apprenticeshipand walked into s job before I finished my tafe course. Others that were on centerlink payments got put through the course free of charge ontop of getting paid to do it. I was almost 2k down with fees textbooks compulsory uniform and tools to do my course. The able bodied bludgers that cbf working should lose their payments imo


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## Defective (Apr 2, 2011)

hey i pay tax! i dunno about other states but in SA no tax is taken out of your payments, i chose to have it taken out as a means of saving knowing i have HELP fees of up to $15,000 to pay for, half of everything car related like big services and the rego which is like nearly $700 for a year so and my employment network have said the types of jobs i can apply for because of the various medical conditions i have.


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

Lambert said:


> hey i pay tax! i dunno about other states but in SA no tax is taken out of your payments, i chose to have it taken out as a means of saving knowing i have HELP fees of up to $15,000 to pay for, half of everything car related like big services and the rego which is like nearly $700 for a year so and my employment network have said the types of jobs i can apply for because of the various medical conditions i have.


Yes you pay tax but come end of financial year you will get all that back. My mrs has epilepsy and has had many jobs. Apply for jobs and be honest at interviews and you would be surprised at how often people will get a job when they might not be the best applicant but are honest and upfront


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## Defective (Apr 2, 2011)

thats the thing, i've got to get the interview first, my applications just get rejected


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

I know that feeling but at least you seem to be trying to find work. The people everyone dislikes are those that don't even bother.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

captive_fairy said:


> That's what you would think, but they don't really work for it...
> I dunno about all places, but my partner was on the dole for a bit. He broke his ankle, and when it was fixed, he had problems getting work.
> He hates sitting around doing nothing. Always has to be doing something.
> When he did the work for the dole progamm, they were building a retianing wall and pulling out weeds and the instructor told him to slow down with the work, or they (I'm assuming he meant his bigger bosses) would expect that much done all the time, and he'd make the others look bad
> ...


 If you do a diploma fulltime you can stay on parenting payment and you get the Pensioner Education Supplement, even if you do it part time you get PES and get to stay o parenting payment, I would talk to someone else as you are not being given the right information.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

Lambert said:


> ohh geez, and what about people like myself who will never be in their dream job because of a stupid disability. FFS i can't even be in the passengers seat of a *****ing ambulance as a non-urgent patient transfer officer because i'll never drive. it's gits like you wranga that piss me off no end because of your lack of understanding as to why most people are on centrelink payments and your ability to be judge and jury all at once and label us.
> 
> it's not a matter of just taking any job, have a look in the paper and actually read what the job advertisments say or on line i'll give you an idea
> SEEK - Sales Person - Full Time Position Job in Adelaide
> ...



it gits like you Lambert that P me off. where have i said anything in this thread about anyone that is recieving a disability pension? people need to read all that is written and not have abit of a read and then have a spit about something they think has been said. read all of my comments before having ago at me. this thread is about the dole or as i think its now called newstart, its not about disability pensions or those that recieve them. take a chill pill


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## Defective (Apr 2, 2011)

thats the thing, i did read it ALL and not everyone can just take any job, no you didn't refer to the disability pension but neither did i you said people without jobs need to take what they can get but theres circumstances where people can't take what they can get. and you totally contradict yourself by saying your more employable if you have a job then if you don't have one. how can you be employable without a job.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

bump73 said:


> Oh my god you have to show up once a fortnight:shock: That must be so hard I really feel for you, I guess all of us working full time don't realise how easy we have it having to show up at least five days a week:lol::lol:
> 
> Ben


I wasn't saying that, I was just saying the form thing may be online but you need to attend an interview instead.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

Lambert said:


> thats the thing, i did read it ALL and not everyone can just take any job, no you didn't refer to the disability pension but neither did i you said people without jobs need to take what they can get but theres circumstances where people can't take what they can get. and you totally contradict yourself by saying your more employable if you have a job then if you don't have one. how can you be employable without a job.



oh dear


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> Nice socialist attitude - distribute the wealth from the rich to the poor and make everyone equal. The rich are usually rich because they choose to get an education and reap the benefits. There are the other rich people that work hard, sacrifice and save to be wealthy. I have the greatest respect for the latter and do not think that they should pay more than the already do to pay those who choose not to work. They already contribute far more towards society than their dole receiving counterparts.


 Are you serious, the Rupert Murdochs and Kerry Packers of the world contribute to society. They had to work for their money, I thought they were born into it. They shouldn't have to pay tax because they are educated?? Am I missing something here?


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

Wranga it's a lost cause yet another thread that shoulda been closed before the 2nd page


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

wranga said:


> i struggle to pay two homes off, put up with some scum ripping me off. maybe if i didnt have to pay as much tax i wouldnt have to struggle as much


Oh my god you poor thing, and why do you even need two homes. Most young people these days (working) are going to be priced completely out of the home ownership market because of greedy landlords and property investors pushing the median house price up constantly and youer crying about having to pay off two homes. Who is greedy here, not the people on $440 a fortnight from where I'm sitting.


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Oh my god you poor thing, and why do you even need two homes. Most young people these days (working) are going to be priced completely out of the home ownership market because of greedy landlords and property investors pushing the median house price up constantly and youer crying about having to pay off two homes. Who is greedy here, not the people on $440 a fortnight from where I'm sitting.


 Nothing greedy from where I sit, yes I rent and don't own a house. When retirement comes, assets and super plays a big part, with the sale of a house to help fund retirement, will keep people off old age pensions. Not to mention the GCT on the sale of a property. 

It's funny how the poor cry poor without doing anything about it. If you aren't earning enough 9 times out of 10 look in the mirror. I entered the workforce on $183 week in 1997 less than the dole withrent assistance. I did wat eva I could to get to where I am today, I had the hardship of being in the 1996 mt druitt high year that failed miserably at the hsc, which hampered getting employed


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## zack13 (Apr 2, 2011)

Geez the hypocrisy in this thread is through the roof. I don't agree that anyone should be able to be on the dole. If you have a disability etc then fine but to all the people who don't get some work there are plenty of jobs out there. 
To lambert I think you need to re read wranga comments I thought it was quite clear he was speaking about able bodied individuals. Also where you say he is contradicting himself he is saying take any job available so when your said dream job comes you are more likely to be employed. Please realize I am be no means having a go at you or siding with him merely trying to bridge to understanding gap here. 
Also to whoever it was that said the wealthier should have to pay more you must be kidding. It is absolutely ludicrous that they have to pay 48.5% of their pay to tax. How is that fair? Tax should be a base % of your pay regardless of your income. You can't tax people more for trying harder/ working more/ investing smarter it is a double standard. Also you can't use the likes of Kerry Packer to sum up the whole of the upper class, people like him a a vast minority of the upper class. I would be willing to bet a higher percentage of upper class work for their money then percentage of people on the dole actually try to find work. If you are going to complain about stereotyping don't do it yourself makes for looking like an uneducated idiot.


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## wranga (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Oh my god you poor thing, and why do you even need two homes. Most young people these days (working) are going to be priced completely out of the home ownership market because of greedy landlords and property investors pushing the median house price up constantly and youer crying about having to pay off two homes. Who is greedy here, not the people on $440 a fortnight from where I'm sitting.



please dont feel sorry for me. its my choise to struggle paying off a home that my ex lives in as well as the home i live in. im not a greedy landlord as yet. but i hope tobe soon. lucky for those greedy landlords taking a risk so you have somewhere to call home


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

dangles said:


> Nothing greedy from where I sit, yes I rent and don't own a house. When retirement comes, assets and super plays a big part, with the sale of a house to help fund retirement, will keep people off old age pensions. Not to mention the GCT on the sale of a property.
> 
> It's funny how the poor cry poor without doing anything about it. If you aren't earning enough 9 times out of 10 look in the mirror. I entered the workforce on $183 week in 1997 less than the dole withrent assistance. I did wat eva I could to get to where I am today, I had the hardship of being in the 1996 mt druitt high year that failed miserably at the hsc, which hampered getting employed


Hey you don't need to tell me about that, my ex's whole family come from there, it is a stigma that's hard to shake. All of them are now employed. Yes I do think it is greedy wanting 2 houses when there are people struggling to keep one house over their heads. By the time you retire there wont be any age pension. Saying poor people do nothing about it is a generalisation, not everyone is in a position to do something about it. I am not saying people are not entitled to make money, but don't whinge that it is welfare making you struggle to pay off two houses, maybe your spending outside your means and that is why there is a struggle. As for poor people crying poor, in my experience it is more often people who are not poor whinging about how hard done to they are. I don't have a problem with being poor, yes it is stressful sometimes when bills come around, but I'd rather be poor and happy than rich, greedy and bitter about having to work every waking moment to pay for my extravagant lifestyle.



wranga said:


> please dont feel sorry for me. its my choise to struggle paying off a home that my ex lives in as well as the home i live in. im not a greedy landlord as yet. but i hope tobe soon. lucky for those greedy landlords taking a risk so you have somewhere to call home


Yes, I am so lucky that my landlord won't spend any money to fix anything in my house which he is waiting to become unlivable so the council will let him pull it down and build flats. I feel so secure here en the rents are flying through the roof so my landlord is working around the clock trying to figure out an excuse to evict me so he can put the rent up to way over what the house is worth. Not all landlords are greedy, admittedly, but the ones that buy house after house with no intention of actually maintaining them just so they can make more money are.


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## zack13 (Apr 2, 2011)

I think the people on the dole in this thread are taking it way to personally. No one is having a go at you. They are speaking about people who choose to be on it so they don't have to work. Not people who have a legitimate reason to be on it.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

zack13 said:


> Geez the hypocrisy in this thread is through the roof. I don't agree that anyone should be able to be on the dole. If you have a disability etc then fine but to all the people who don't get some work there are plenty of jobs out there.
> To lambert I think you need to re read wranga comments I thought it was quite clear he was speaking about able bodied individuals. Also where you say he is contradicting himself he is saying take any job available so when your said dream job comes you are more likely to be employed. Please realize I am be no means having a go at you or siding with him merely trying to bridge to understanding gap here.
> Also to whoever it was that said the wealthier should have to pay more you must be kidding. It is absolutely ludicrous that they have to pay 48.5% of their pay to tax. How is that fair? Tax should be a base % of your pay regardless of your income. You can't tax people more for trying harder/ working more/ investing smarter it is a double standard. Also you can't use the likes of Kerry Packer to sum up the whole of the upper class, people like him a a vast minority of the upper class. I would be willing to bet a higher percentage of upper class work for their money then percentage of people on the dole actually try to find work. If you are going to complain about stereotyping don't do it yourself makes for looking like an uneducated idiot.



The person said the top 5% of earners, that is the Kerry Packer bracket is it not. If the government ever actually got serious about chasing them for tax evasion it would make way more money than it spends on welfare.



zack13 said:


> I think the people on the dole in this thread are taking it way to personally. No one is having a go at you. They are speaking about people who choose to be on it so they don't have to work. Not people who have a legitimate reason to be on it.


 For the record, I am not on the dole, you probably were not talking about me, but just saying.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Are you serious, the Rupert Murdochs and Kerry Packers of the world contribute to society. They had to work for their money, I thought they were born into it. They shouldn't have to pay tax because they are educated?? Am I missing something here?


 
The likes of Rupert Murdoch and Kerry Packer were indeed born into wealth but they are exceptions to the rule. They don't avoid tax, they just minimize their tax by paying people a lot of money to do so. They also generate jobs for people who also pay tax, therefore contributing to society.

I am definitely not one of the top 5% of the population, but I do live a comfortable life brought about by hard work and making the right life choices, such as deciding to get an education and work hard vice going on the dole and expecting everything for nothing. I've paid over a million dollars tax during my working life and will most likely pay well over another million before I retire. Why should a big percentage of this money go to people who are too lazy to get of their backsides and work?

Once again, I don't have nothing against people who need to go on the dole whilst looking for a job but I do get angry at those who think it's their God given right to put out their greedy hands and expect a handout for the rest of their lives.

Where has self respect gone?


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## zack13 (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> The person said the top 5% of earners, that is the Kerry Packer bracket is it not. If the government ever actually got serious about chasing them for tax evasion it would make way more money than it spends on welfare.
> 
> 
> For the record, I am not on the dole, you probably were not talking about me, but just saying.


You're right I wasn't speaking about you. I realize he is in the top 5% but surely you must realize that the top 5% aren't filled with Kerry Packers. Most of them worked hard to get where they are it isn't fair to lump them all together.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 2, 2011)

On reflection, I think we are all playing into the hands of the OP who obviously knew the dissent such a topic would cause and has made themselves conspicuously absent while the rest of us bicker between ourselves, some one should come along and close the thread. I for one did not join this forum to make enemies with people over such a highly sensitive topic.


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 2, 2011)

I wish I could pay 2 million in tax over my lifetime,LOL


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## dangles (Apr 2, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> On reflection, I think we are all playing into the hands of the OP who obviously knew the dissent such a topic would cause and has made themselves conspicuously absent while the rest of us bicker between ourselves, some one should come along and close the thread. I for one did not join this forum to make enemies with people over such a highly sensitive topic.


As I posted before this prob shoulda been closed before the 2nd page. I am going to refrain from posting in this thread, cos I'm sure I will get an infraction very soon. Work hard, take whatever jobs become available whilst waiting for something better


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 2, 2011)

A couple of years ago (can't remember exactly when) there was an article on Australias young rich list, most of the top10 never completed highschool another thing most had in common was a basic idea and a goal which they never took their eyes of.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 2, 2011)

dangles said:


> As I posted before this prob shoulda been closed before the 2nd page. I am going to refrain from posting in this thread, cos I'm sure I will get an infraction very soon. Work hard, take whatever jobs become available whilst waiting for something better



We definitely all have our opinions. 

I must admit, I'm surprised the thread has stayed open myself.

Social security is a touchy subject and the mere mention of the subject is usually enough to stir up a hornet's nest.


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## mattmc (Apr 2, 2011)

I am eligable for Youth Allowance, therefore I get it? Am I a dole Bludger? No, I work aswell. Im also studying. As far as im concerned, you rich people are doing me a favour .

But I agree, you know, IF there is work, it should be taken by a person on the Dole. But there are so many variables to any given situation.

Say you live in some poor area, where housing is essentially cheap, you are on the dole, youve had a troubled up bringing, and havent recieved the greatest of educations. Now the governments gonna say yo look there is plenty of work...BUT what are the training qualifications for said work? And HOW MUCH will the training cost before you can enter said workforce.../ how long will the training be? The variables stack, and stack and stack. Is the work 150km away from you? How will you get there? etc etc etc etc.

As far as im concerned. School should split at year 10, trade training should start in a school environment, not TAFE. 

The HSC in general is a rigged piece of yesterdays breakfast. Someone has to lose. and that makes it unfair.


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## Defective (Apr 2, 2011)

zack13 said:


> To lambert I think you need to re read wranga comments I thought it was quite clear he was speaking about able bodied individuals.


 thing is i am able bodied! i can walk, dress myself, feed my self do all that stuff 'normal' people do so therefore i'm classed as able bodied/independant its just my disability is neurological so it gives a stigma that is stuck on me making it hard for me to gain any sort of employment. i took the MCAT's and got 95% but can't go because they don't have the facilities,support and 'special aide' i'll need to get through med school and the bridging course. theres not many people that get 95% without studying


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## Crystal..Discus (Apr 2, 2011)

zack13 said:


> Geez the hypocrisy in this thread is through the roof. I don't agree that anyone should be able to be on the dole. If you have a disability etc then fine but to all the people who don't get some work there are plenty of jobs out there.



"Plenty" of jobs for fully qualified people with 2-5 years experience in their field. Stop generalising. It's tough finding a job even for the most experienced, almost impossible for anyone under the age of 25 with no formal qualifications other than a high school certificate. Hell, the job finding networks are a sham at best, and there's no incentive to go out and find work other than pride. 

So before you start making sweeping claims, think long and hard next time, because this is exactly the reason why people on the dole think you're having a go at them - and I don't blame them.


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## Torah (Apr 2, 2011)

mehhhhh ! Each to theyre own . Dont judge until youve lived their life ...


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## jellis (Apr 4, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> So women with small children who's husbands leave them or vise versa should get nothing for their kids or are all single mothers bad women that have babies to get the pension??


 Thats the biggest cop out. my old lady worked two jobs to keep me and my sister with a roof over our head dinner on the table and clothes on our body.



Geckoman said:


> Jellis, are you a troll?, your first two threads are just a little touchy......


how does posting a topic like this make me a troll? i think its a good thread where people have expressed quite openly there thoughts and feelings about it. whats wrong with it?



kaotikjezta said:


> So it is ok to bring a child into the world so you can claim money you don't actually need, that is a great value system to hand down to your children and I it may make them more productive but I'd rather have a nice hearted dole bludger for a kid than a mean spirited, greedy workaholic. Don't even get me started on the ongoing use of stereotypes being thrown around by some ignorant people.


 
some people need to be stereotyped. why should some one who earns $100,000 a year not be entitled to the bonus over some one on the dole.



Otori said:


> the dole is 440 a fortnight wow, they are really living it up and partying on with the average rent being 200 and power going up 30% they really have it easy,
> 1 third of the Australian population are under the poverty line lets kick the dole away and make it 2/3rds
> the percent of "dole bludgers" are minimal, my understanding is that 1 you have to sign 2 agreements 1 saying you will look for
> a minimum of 4 different jobs a week for centerlink and sign up to a job network at the job network you sign one with them saying you will look for 10 jobs a week for them, then you have 6 short coursed to do including resume updates,cold canvasing, job seeking tactics
> ...


 
Ever had an apprentice ship? Mate i earnt $220 a week paid rent food water bills everything same as alot of other apprentices plus i actually had to work. didnt get that money for nothing. would of been much easier to get on the dole. this is why i / people get annoyed with people on the dole




Lambert said:


> ohh geez, and what about people like myself who will never be in their dream job because of a stupid disability. FFS i can't even be in the passengers seat of a *****ing ambulance as a non-urgent patient transfer officer because i'll never drive. it's gits like you wranga that piss me off no end because of your lack of understanding as to why most people are on centrelink payments and your ability to be judge and jury all at once and label us.
> 
> it's not a matter of just taking any job, have a look in the paper and actually read what the job advertisments say or on line i'll give you an idea
> SEEK - Sales Person - Full Time Position Job in Adelaide
> ...


 
i wasn"t talking about people with disabilitys at all but i do struggle to believe you have been job hunting for six years and in that time youve had 1 job.
maybe you should be less picky about what you want to do.



kaotikjezta said:


> Hey you don't need to tell me about that, my ex's whole family come from there, it is a stigma that's hard to shake. All of them are now employed. Yes I do think it is greedy wanting 2 houses when there are people struggling to keep one house over their heads. By the time you retire there wont be any age pension. Saying poor people do nothing about it is a generalisation, not everyone is in a position to do something about it. I am not saying people are not entitled to make money, but don't whinge that it is welfare making you struggle to pay off two houses, maybe your spending outside your means and that is why there is a struggle. As for poor people crying poor, in my experience it is more often people who are not poor whinging about how hard done to they are. I don't have a problem with being poor, yes it is stressful sometimes when bills come around, but I'd rather be poor and happy than rich, greedy and bitter about having to work every waking moment to pay for my extravagant lifestyle.
> 
> Yes, I am so lucky that my landlord won't spend any money to fix anything in my house which he is waiting to become unlivable so the council will let him pull it down and build flats. I feel so secure here en the rents are flying through the roof so my landlord is working around the clock trying to figure out an excuse to evict me so he can put the rent up to way over what the house is worth. Not all landlords are greedy, admittedly, but the ones that buy house after house with no intention of actually maintaining them just so they can make more money are.


 
get a new appartment / house. there is nothing wrong with people wanting to make their own lifes better.
also "As for poor people crying poor, in my experience it is more often people who are not poor whinging about how hard done to they are. I don't have a problem with being poor and happy than rich, greedy and bitter about having to work every waking moment to pay for my extravagant lifestyle "
that is the bloody problem. why not want to be more than poor?
why can you not be wealthy and happy? 
seems like an excuse that alot of people use so they dont even have to try? 




kaotikjezta said:


> On reflection, I think we are all playing into the hands of the OP who obviously knew the dissent such a topic would cause and has made themselves conspicuously absent while the rest of us bicker between ourselves, some one should come along and close the thread. I for one did not join this forum to make enemies with people over such a highly sensitive topic.


 
its funny i actually had to work over the weekend and wasnt able to get on a computer, sorry about that.
why should this thread be closed?
if topics like this dont get debated and talked about whats going to change.
and there is a definate need for change.
yes or no?



Lambert said:


> thing is i am able bodied! i can walk, dress myself, feed my self do all that stuff 'normal' people do so therefore i'm classed as able bodied/independant its just my disability is neurological so it gives a stigma that is stuck on me making it hard for me to gain any sort of employment. i took the MCAT's and got 95% but can't go because they don't have the facilities,support and 'special aide' i'll need to get through med school and the bridging course. theres not many people that get 95% without studying


 
well maybe its time to get a job?
if you spent half as much time on careerone trying to find a job as you seem to spend on this website i can imagen you finding a job fairly quickly.


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## Nighthawk (Apr 4, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> And when you give the baby bonus to the middle and upper class, they generally give birth to potentially productive offspring. Perpetual dole bludgers usually give birth to the next generation of dole recipients.
> 
> Let me just step into the other room to put on my flame suit


 
You need a new stirring stick, that one's wearing a bit low


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## Bradchip (Apr 4, 2011)

I have a decent job now, but remember when I left school and went into centrelink (or whatever it was called back then) and looking at the jobs on the board. 

All I can remember is "Wanted: Junior chicken boner with minimum 5 years experience"...what the hell. Aside from laughing at chicken boner, can they really ask for a junior with 5 years experience :/

I know a few people that have lost their jobs and then applied for dole and they made it EXTREMELY difficult for them.


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## slim6y (Apr 4, 2011)

Did you know someone who lost their job because they were boning chickens???


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## Bradchip (Apr 4, 2011)

Not quite. None of my friends lost their jobs due to doing anything fowl. 

I'm equally disturbed when I go to the supermarket and see 'Cream of chicken soup'


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## Virides (Apr 4, 2011)

I remember when I finished TAFE looking for a job in the graphics industry that they always asked for experience. The thing that fired me up the most was the infinite loop of "need experience? don't have it, need it, can't get it" What's the point? Even if they have experience, they still need to learn the systems used at the workplace since it is most likely different to where they last worked. 

I have vowed that if we ever hire anyone, I will be taking someone on for their skills and not their experience - teach them and be prepared for a little leeway with mistakes... might turn out better than someone with experience. Also have to ask yourself, if they have experience, why are they looking for a job in the first place? (I know, many reasons for that, but not what an employer thinks about when deciding).


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## sookie (Apr 4, 2011)

After a few years of trying to run my own business,somehow i am back on the dole.My lifestyle can't be paid for by the lousy $220 i receive each week.I have a son,rent...blah blah blah.Yes some people like sitting at home getting paid to do it.Not me,am glad tohave it available to me,just not the life i am looking for as a future.Work is out there,just not the job i would like.cash is cash.

cluck cluck cluck


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (Apr 4, 2011)

my family owns and runs several companies two of which is a recruitment company we are non government funded at do not receive any funding at al by the government ! 
My position is operations manager ! i look after three companies 1 * recruitment , 1 * training , recruitment and the third compqany is events management and Av.

government funded job agencies contact our staff daily to offer there services some of which are good but most are shocking !!!

As long they find jobseekers at least 15 hours a week work they meet there performance targets set by the commonwealth then get funded by the government ! of course that jobseeker must be employed a min of so many weeks and min 15 hours to receive funding ! 
so while the jobseeker is looking for full time work the job agency is looking for min work.

our agency contacts or uses or contacts to employ staff for trade ( shows and expos , etc -easter shows ).
My agency does not take long term unemployed as they are less likey ( never ) to show up on the monday first day then some who has just left the work force ! 

my agencies mite have position going and 200 people apply via email ! out of that only 12 people mite have what i am looking for to meet the critteria. we interview all 12 round them down to the top critteria meters , lets say top 5-3 then re-interview and out of that there will be a clear standout by this time ?
our agency onlys takes the best staff available to the job market ! 
government funded agencys are required to see there clients on a regular basis under the social security act.
if our company sends out staff not suitable for that job then we dont get paid out recruitment fees !
so government agencies get money as long as you register with them , thats why why go look for a job with another government agency they refer you private agencys and theres no funding involed then theres no help to get you a job !

heres job seeker tips to geting a job !!!!
TURN YOUR MOBILE OFF BEFORE APPROCHING COMPANYS - no applicant gets a job with us if they enter our office and pay more attention to there mobiles than to the interviewer ! we see this everyday ! its not our job to reminder you that your here for a job ! and we want your full attention ! if we dont get it at an interview then employers wont get it at your workplace ! 
LISTEN CAREFULLY - when asked to fill out paper work do it dont disagree with staff ! applicants that disagree at interviews will disagree at the workplace ! always !!!
PROVIDE A COVER LETTER AND UP TO DATE RESUME - if emailing for jobs outlinning what position/s you are seeking if you need a new resume there are hundreds of templates on the net ( resume templates ).attach and send and call back in two days to check about progress of position/s.
IN INTERVIEWS I WANT 100% OF YOUR ATTENTION ! say no more ! 
BRING ALL YOUR DOCUMENTS WITH YOU TO THE INTERVIEW ALWAYS - trade papers or certs dont leave at home !!!!!!!!
Be READY ON WHAT QUESTIONS WE MITE ASK YOU !!! 
*Stage 1. Telephone Screening*
The first stage of the process is applied during the applicant’s initial contact with !!!! Recruitment. We believe that a successful candidate should be able to deal with most situations in a professional and thorough manner. During the call we establish the applicant’s level of experience, manner, motivators, career history, education and desires. We specifically ensure that their expectations are realistic, and that they are looking for a new position for a valid reason. Those that manage to close for an interview will be invited in to see us, having established that they could be suitable for one or more of the specific vacancies we are recruiting for.
*Stage 2. Initial Impression *
A good candidate understands that anyone can have an impact on a decision regarding their employer and thus always conduct themselves in a professional and polite manner. 
*All applicants to !!! recruitment are assessed from the moment they arrive at our offices. This includes their appearance, their approach, the way in which they introduce themselves at reception and generally how they handle themselves in the presence of other staff and candidates.*
*Stage 3. Interview*
!!! Recruitment implements a structured and fully investigative interview process. All applicants are interviewed by a minimum of two consultants over a period of one to two hours. Having previously received the applicants resume, our consultants are able to prepare the interview in a way that ensures all aspects of the applicant’s education and career history are thoroughly probed. 


*Job Interview Questions About the New Job and the Company* 

What interests you about this job? -
Why do you want this job? -
What applicable attributes / experience do you have? -
Are you overqualified for this job? -
What can you do for this company? -
Why should we hire you? -
Why are you the best person for the job? -
What do you know about this company? -
Why do you want to work here? -
What challenges are you looking for in a position? -
What can you contribute to this company? -
Are you willing to travel? -
What is good customer service? -
Is there anything I haven't told you about the job or company that you would like to know?
these questions above are very simple questions but can provide good insight to your minds - the simple questions always gets an applicant !!!
SELL YOURSELF TO EMPLOPERS LIKE A SALESPERSON ??? IF YOU DONT THE RIGHT APPLICANT WILL !!!! 
SHOW CONFIDENCE BUT NOT COCKINESS ! 
yeah i cant spell thats why i have receptionists


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## byron_moses (Apr 4, 2011)

i work as a sub contractor some weeks without the dole i wouldnt have a roof for my family i work as much as i can


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 4, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> On reflection, I think we are all playing into the hands of the OP who obviously knew the dissent such a topic would cause and has made themselves conspicuously absent while the rest of us bicker between ourselves, some one should come along and close the thread. I for one did not join this forum to make enemies with people over such a highly sensitive topic.


 
well said, i belive forums should abide by pub rules,
no politics and no religion


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## dangles (Apr 4, 2011)

NatoRey said:


> well said, i belive forums should abide by pub rules,
> no politics and no religion


 
And all arguments and heated discussions settled outside like men


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks Reptilian Kman.
A good many people should be able to take an awfull lot from that post to assist them in gaining future or new/better employment.


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## ravan (Apr 4, 2011)

wranga said:


> if your unemployed take any job till something better comes up. your more employable if you have a job than not having one.


 

really?

I have a casual job, working 1 -2 days per week. 
I have been looking for a full time job for the last 3 months, and have applied for over 110 (thats just on seek) and still havent managed to find anything. I am well dressed, show up on time or earlier, have various certificates in business and customer management and still havent been able to find something full time or even part-time, because there is just so many people that are out there looking for a job.. last interview I went to, they said that they had over 500 applicants in 4 days and had to take down the ad on seek because it was way too many for them to handle.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

jellis said:


> Thats the biggest cop out. my old lady worked two jobs to keep me and my sister with a roof over our head dinner on the table and clothes on our body.
> Yes but not everyone can walk straight out of a marriage where they were a homemaker into a job so what do they do in the meantime.
> 
> 
> ...


That is just rude. You have no right to talk to anyone like that, you ave a huge chip obviously maybe you should go get help with that before trying to cause dissent about welfare on a reptile forum.


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## southy (Apr 4, 2011)

not sure if it has been mentioned but i get drug and alcohol tested often at work, i think they should introduce random testing so people that are taking advantage of the system and blowing it on booze and drugs get caught out and dont get their payment. It wouldnt surprise me if people use the money to support their addictions


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

southy said:


> not sure if it has been mentioned but i get drug and alcohol tested often at work, i think they should introduce random testing so people that are taking advantage of the system and blowing it on booze and drugs get caught out and dont get their payment. It wouldnt surprise me if people use the money to support their addictions


As stated before, people who can prove they have an addiction, which isn't that hard, get disability support. Also, what if the testing happens to occur after some kind of event like a wedding, or maybe they have just gone out after 6 months of doing nothing, or spend $5 of there money on a beer once a fortnight, what because you are in hard times you are not allowed to have any kind of life. An example, and I am on Austudy not the dole, but I don't drink for health reasons but last night I went to a gig I saved up to go to and had 2 vodkas, first time in 2 years. Should my payment be cut for this.


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 4, 2011)

If you test positive and have a responsibility to attend job seeking appointments yes.
in the workforce you have the responsibility to enter the workplace fit for work regardless opf if you went to a wedding or whatever.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

steve1 said:


> If you test positive and have a responsibility to attend job seeking appointments yes.


 Well true, you don't go for a job drunk or intoxicated that's fair enough


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## southy (Apr 4, 2011)

im not saying at all that people cant have a life. i think every person deserves the right to have a drink as often as they want, wedding or no wedding. i know of people who abuse the system, get their payment, sit at home and smoke drugs all day. I dont think thats fair by any means compared to people that get the same amount of money who are out day and night trying to find jobs but can not. Most people do do the right thing by the system, but its the minority that give the "dole" a bad name.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

southy said:


> im not saying at all that people cant have a life. i think every person deserves the right to have a drink as often as they want, wedding or no wedding. i know of people who abuse the system, get their payment, sit at home and smoke drugs all day. I dont think thats fair by any means compared to people that get the same amount of money who are out day and night trying to find jobs but can not. Most people do do the right thing by the system, but its the minority that give the "dole" a bad name.


That's true, but I met a woman in town the other day who just randomly started telling me how the dole was hassling her too much so she went and said she had a problem with pot and they said if she agreed to see a social worker once a month and got a letter and urine sample test from her doctor she could go on disability payment, almost twice as much as the dole, she then proceeded to ask me if I had any pot for sale. My son had a bit of a pot problem for a while, partially because we were living on the north coast of NSW where it is everywhere, but more so because he couldn't get work. Once he moved to the Illawarra and got a job, all that changed. So it can be a cycle that leads to self esteem problems and substance abuse, not always the other way around.


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 4, 2011)

LOL Thats another big can of worms
and suggests a level of naivety when it comes to marijuana use.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

steve1 said:


> LOL Thats another big can of worms


 Yes, one that probably shouldn't be opened on a herp site, haha


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## hashbean (Apr 4, 2011)

im on a single parent pension 
2 kids and work 22 hours a week
i get about $500 pw form work net
and centerlink give me about $300 pw that includes ftb a and b 
i live in a nice big 4 bedroom public housing house 3min from a beach 
i get a pension card and 2 free train trips anywere in the state each year i get free rego $5.50 medications plus heaps of other discounts and free bees
and i love it . i worked hard for 25 years now i dont 
i think people should be more up in arms about the money thats wasted each year by both state and fed gov like the restocking of the parlentry wine celar , the 100s of millions wasted on planning a road or tunnel that never gets built the free limo rides to work those mungrels get the list goes on 
bottom line is the dole helps everyone rich or poor
at sometime in there life


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## MChaz (Apr 4, 2011)

My dad is on the dole and I feel sorry for him.
He wants to work so bad, but because of his injuries and disability, he physically can't manage it.
He has torn disks in his spine and suffers from frequent seizures and although he gets paid on the dole, it isn't much, because my mum works and apparently 'earns too much'. I say that in quotations cos shes only parttime.
I feel sorry for him because he is such an outgoing and lively person, and he is now so depressed that he can't wake up and go to work.
He has to sit at home and I'm sure he breaks things just so he has something to fix lol.
Sometimes he gets a bit of cash work helping his mates out just building and basic stuff like that, but if he works himself too hard hes back in bed for the next week.
On the other hand, there is definitely people being dole bludgers, who do waste their money and make excuses and they don't deserve it. That money could be helping the ederly or doing something else thats important.


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 4, 2011)

hashbean said:


> im on a single parent pension
> 2 kids and work 22 hours a week
> i get about $500 pw form work net
> and centerlink give me about $300 pw that includes ftb a and b
> ...


this is a troll reply its NOT possible to earn 500 a week and still get any benefits i l just looked into it.
this thread should be closed its getting out of control


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## hashbean (Apr 4, 2011)

NatoRey said:


> this is a troll reply its NOT possible to earn 500 a week and still get any benefits i l just looked into it.


 
dont call me a troll you must of been looking in the wrong place
you can earn more and still get benifits 
have you ever heard of ftb a and b ???
Centrelink - assists people to become self-sufficient and supports those in need
http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/ftb_a_rates.htm
http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/parenting_rates.htm
after $140 i think its 40cents in the dollar they take of you 

so have to say sorry but your wrong and out of con-troll


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 4, 2011)

im not getting into a fight i just read it on the .gov website.


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## hashbean (Apr 4, 2011)

Parenting Payment - income and assets

top of the pages says i can earn up to $1700 a fortnight before all pension payment stops 
but still get FTB A and B


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## syeph8 (Apr 4, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Yes, angelic in front of their parents and other adults maybe. The majority of them want for nothing and don't mind rubbing that in the faces of less well off kids. Plus, do you think if kids grow up seeing they're parents struggling to put food on the table from one week to the next they are going to grow up and want that for they're own families. Maybe in some cases like breeds like but it very often has the opposite effect.



You know the majority of middle class children in Australia? popular lady!

I know that generalizing against kids who come from poor families is not the way to go. But do you see that you've swung it around and generalized about middle class kids? I come from a very two sided family, my English/Greek side are all well-off lawyers and work very hard and their children are made to have jobs and pay a small portion of the bills from the age of 15 and so that if they want something, they can have it and understand the value of money. My Aboriginal/french side of the family (most are steriotypically low income earners or unemployed) are made to work from the age of 15 to pay a small amount of rent and buy things that they want. I see absolutely no difference (and I have a very big family on both sides). What is true on both sides is that if the parents attitude is "people owe me something" then the kids attitude will be exactly the same. I have three obnoxious little cousins on one side and two on the other and I can definitely link it to the fact that their parents are obnoxious themselves. Long story short, where the money comes from and/or how much you get (within reason) makes little difference to how your kids turn out. The parents attitude and attentiveness to their kids far more of an influencing factor. I would hate if you were the deciding member on my jury... 

I myself was on the dole for about 4 weeks at the beginning of this year after coming back to Melbourne looking for a job and waiting for my div1 nursing registration to come (still waiting but I have a job as a human boxing bag for the DHS.) I have no shame in that I was on the dole, nor should I. I have worked since I was 14 and a half and payed my taxes. I have studied for years so I would be qualified for a low paying job that has the sole purpose of helping people. I had 2 days notice that I was going to be out of work and got no severance package. If the dole didn't exist I could very well be homeless right now. I applied for jobs like crazy but was "over qualified" for many of what I consider the "undesirable jobs". the issue is not people think these jobs are below them. it is that some of the people on the dole have extensive experience or qualifications that doesn't fit into the need of the employer. If they want a monotonous laborer, they're not going to hire an ex-diesel mechanic or uni grad who hasn't yet found a job. They want to hire the bloke who's either worked as a monotonous laborer before or just dropped out of tafe because its safe to say that you aren't going to lose that person to a higher paid job in a month or so time and have to recruit, induct and train another employee.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2011)

syeph8 said:


> You know the majority of middle class children in Australia? popular lady!
> 
> I know that generalizing against kids who come from poor families is not the way to go. But do you see that you've swung it around and generalized about middle class kids? I come from a very two sided family, my English/Greek side are all well-off lawyers and work very hard and their children are made to have jobs and pay a small portion of the bills from the age of 15 and so that if they want something, they can have it and understand the value of money. My Aboriginal/french side of the family (most are steriotypically low income earners or unemployed) are made to work from the age of 15 to pay a small amount of rent and buy things that they want. I see absolutely no difference (and I have a very big family on both sides). What is true on both sides is that if the parents attitude is "people owe me something" then the kids attitude will be exactly the same. I have three obnoxious little cousins on one side and two on the other and I can definitely link it to the fact that their parents are obnoxious themselves. Long story short, where the money comes from and/or how much you get (within reason) makes little difference to how your kids turn out. The parents attitude and attentiveness to their kids far more of an influencing factor. I would hate if you were the deciding member on my jury...
> 
> I myself was on the dole for about 4 weeks at the beginning of this year after coming back to Melbourne looking for a job and waiting for my div1 nursing registration to come (still waiting but I have a job as a human boxing bag for the DHS.) I have no shame in that I was on the dole, nor should I. I have worked since I was 14 and a half and payed my taxes. I have studied for years so I would be qualified for a low paying job that has the sole purpose of helping people. I had 2 days notice that I was going to be out of work and got no severance package. If the dole didn't exist I could very well be homeless right now. I applied for jobs like crazy but was "over qualified" for many of what I consider the "undesirable jobs". the issue is not people think these jobs are below them. it is that some of the people on the dole have extensive experience or qualifications that doesn't fit into the need of the employer. If they want a monotonous laborer, they're not going to hire an ex-diesel mechanic or uni grad who hasn't yet found a job. They want to hire the bloke who's either worked as a monotonous laborer before or just dropped out of tafe because its safe to say that you aren't going to lose that person to a higher paid job in a month or so time and have to recruit, induct and train another employee.


Your right, I did flip the stereotype and I shouldn't have, I have just seen first hand how wealthy kids can often treat poorer kids. My son copped a very hard time at one school in a rather wealthy area of the Illawara, things like people befriending him and asking him to birthday parties just to tell him to leave after they got their present. Telling their parents he lived in a garbage dump and teasing him about it. He had no friends and was thoroughly miserable so I guess I did judge a bit to harshly by that experience. He is in high school now and has friends from all socioeconomic backgrounds so I know they are not all like that, but the ones that come off as being angelic are quite often the nastiest when adults are not around.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 4, 2011)

Great post syeph8. Some very sound points.

I don't think you should feel any shame for going on the dole temporarily. That, in my opinion, is exactly what the dole is for. 

Nursing is an honorable profession - grossly underpaid in my opinion (yes my wife is a nurse).


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## syeph8 (Apr 4, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Your right, I did flip the stereotype and I shouldn't have, I have just seen first hand how wealthy kids can often treat poorer kids. My son copped a very hard time at one school in a rather wealthy area of the Illawara, things like people befriending him and asking him to birthday parties just to tell him to leave after they got their present. Telling their parents he lived in a garbage dump and teasing him about it. He had no friends and was thoroughly miserable so I guess I did judge a bit to harshly by that experience. He is in high school now and has friends from all socioeconomic backgrounds so I know they are not all like that, but the ones that come off as being angelic are quite often the nastiest when adults are not around.


 
As unfortunate a circumstance that must have been for you and your child. Kids will be kids. I think you'll find the poorer kids will pick on the richer kids just for something to do as well as the other way around. in my personal experience and observation, a child with money behaves no different to a child without but a child with boundaries and good role models, however, acts very differently to one without.

Thanks spilota. I'd happily concede not getting a pay-rise if we were provided with some form of Kevlar.


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## FAY (Apr 4, 2011)

Time to close.............


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