# Bloody Disgusting



## Lewy (Jun 13, 2009)

Just watching Animal Extractors on channel 7 and was totally disgusted by how the Alligator Agents as they called themselves caught their alligators. A huge sharp four pronged hook on a fishing line that they cast towards the alligator and hook it into whatever body part it hits then drag them in. On top of that they don't relocate the gators but kill them instead. Just watched them catch a baby gator about four foot long by snagging it through its foot and dragging it to the waters edge by it's foot. :x

On a better note they also showed bear relocating and as they released they bear they shot it with rubber buckshot and yelled at it to hopefully reinstill the bear's fear of humans. Whilst that sounds a bit cruel it is done to deter the bears from coming back into human areas which if they continued to do they will be euthanised. 

Sue


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## GSXR_Boy (Jun 13, 2009)

They also had a rattle snake relocater on there too.

I too thought it was slack killing the 'gator.


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## waruikazi (Jun 13, 2009)

Do you have a better option for them to use? Did you know that aussie crocs are harpooned or shot if they can't be trapped.


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## Lewy (Jun 13, 2009)

[_QUOTE=waruikazi;1473917]Do you have a better option for them to use? Did you know that aussie crocs are harpooned or shot if they can't be trapped.[/QUOTE]_

Well I guess that just makes everything ok then  These guys made no attempt to trap them at all. Straight to dragging them in with a hook and glorifying it all the way.

Sue


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## redbellybite (Jun 13, 2009)

Well no two guesses what pee'd me off .....regarding the catching of the rattlesnake .....


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## Lewy (Jun 13, 2009)

Yer gotta love those squishy tongs. Love the way he said 'you can tell he's aggitated by the way he's rattling'. No ****, you would be aggitated too if you had your guts squashed like that!

Sue


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## JasonL (Jun 13, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Well no two guesses what pee'd me off .....regarding the catching of the rattlesnake .....



lol, well your not going to tail a viper are you :lol:, they are a bit rough with them, most of the time they can just flick them into a bag with a hook....but each to their own, better than a shovel.


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## redbellybite (Jun 13, 2009)

Well considering the so called 'GENTLE GIANTS" are made in the USA you would think at least if your a tong user ...then the wider tong should be used ...not that barbaric rib breaking ,skin tearing piece of rubbish he was using ....


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## cris (Jun 14, 2009)

Is there any reason to think harpooning a gator is worse or even as bad as fishing with hooks? I didnt see it but when i have seen similar things used on crocs on Aussie shows it caused no noticeable harm.


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## JasonL (Jun 14, 2009)

cris said:


> Is there any reason to think harpooning a gator is worse or even as bad as fishing with hooks? I didnt see it but when i have seen similar things used on crocs on Aussie shows it caused no noticeable harm.



Well, there is a bit of difference really; ie, the specially designed harpoon head is thrown into the thick skin on the crocs back, the oversizes trebles are just randomly jagged into the gators, and could possibly go through it's eye ect..personally, I thought it was a bit Un professional.


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## waruikazi (Jun 14, 2009)

Lewy said:


> Well I guess that just makes everything ok then  These guys made no attempt to trap them at all. Straight to dragging them in with a hook and glorifying it all the way.
> 
> Sue



I don't recall saying it wasok. I'm asking you, do you have a more efficient, less harmful and safer way or removing these gators? If you do i'm sure they would love to hear about it.


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## redbellybite (Jun 14, 2009)

JasonL said:


> Well, there is a bit of difference really; ie, the specially designed harpoon head is thrown into the thick skin on the crocs back, the oversizes trebles are just randomly jagged into the gators, and could possibly go through it's eye ect..personally, I thought it was a bit Un professional.


 :evil: agreed it was cruel watching it ..and the fact they were acting in a cowboy way made it worse to watch ....I agree with Lewy ...I dont know why they couldnt relocate ...very sad...if it had been fluffy and cute ..outrage wouldve been top priority ..how dare they snag and drag that poor cougar or bear cub and then kill it ....but as it is a revolting reptile.. all cold and slimey ...everyone turn a blind eye now


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## JasonL (Jun 14, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> I don't recall saying it wasok. I'm asking you, do you have a more efficient, less harmful and safer way or removing these gators? If you do i'm sure they would love to hear about it.



more efficient? well thats the problem isn't it..time and $$$$ means less respect for the animal.


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## waruikazi (Jun 14, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> :evil: agreed it was cruel watching it ..and the fact they were acting in a cowboy way made it worse to watch ....I agree with Lewy ...I dont know why they couldnt relocate ...very sad...if it had been fluffy and cute ..outrage wouldve been top priority ..how dare they snag and drag that poor cougar or bear cub and then kill it ....but as it is a revolting reptile.. all cold and slimey ...everyone turn a blind eye now



Redbelly you should know as well a i do that reptiles don't relocate well. The majority of the snakes we relocate will die, my opinion on this is atleast they are going back into the food chain but the majority will die none-the-less. 

Here in the Territory crocs aren't relocated. They relocate worse than snakes and i don't see how a gator would be that different. Crocs can be dropped nearly 1000km out to sea and they will still find their way back to their original territory. Instead they are sent to 'croc farms' and what do you think happens to them their? If they are lucky they will go into a breeding program, in which case they are pushing another older animal out of a job (what do you think happens to the old boy?) if they aren't lucky they become produce. 

As for snagging the crocs being cruel. Have you seen the state of crocs when they come out of the steal traps? Smashed teeth, half the skin on their face ripped up and then there's the ones that try and turn around in the trap only to get stuck and drown. It's nasty, the animal will feel pain and become stressed and maybe even die during the capture. It is unfortunate but these things happen, capturing a wild predator is not easy or risk free for any of the parties involved.

Atleast they were being honest about the fate of the animal.


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## waruikazi (Jun 14, 2009)

JasonL said:


> more efficient? well thats the problem isn't it..time and $$$$ means less respect for the animal.



You're right Jas i forgot that their is an infinite ammount of money and time to spend on animal captures. I'm totally stoked that you managed to overlook my two other points and chose to hone in on one, possibly the weakest reason, to make a strawman. 

The quicker the capture, in majority of cases, the safer for all involved. Do you disagree?


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## redbellybite (Jun 14, 2009)

Gordo ...why would you say most of my snakes that I relocate will die?...I dont understand why you think that ?.....I was making a point that had it been of a furry or cute nature more effort would be put into catching ,even if they had to euth it ,it would have been handled in a more respectful way ...as reptiles sadly only intrigue a small minority of people ,compared to the furry animal lovers and so they do not get the respect or the care needed that no doubt if it had fur would get ...even you would have to see this ...


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## waruikazi (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm explaining why they don't relocate them and drawing an analogy to another type of reptile. It's not just your snakes that will die it is the majority of relocated snakes. They don't cope well with the change and they will generally die.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jun 14, 2009)

I dont know about your area gordo, but here in southern Vic, the releases 
are quite successful.
I have kept tabs on released animals from my surrounding areas and a few have 
come through the catch and release fine.
The secret is to release as close the the capture spot as possible and as soon as possible after capture.
I reckon you gotta give them more credit. Their survival instincts are strong and i cant see why you say they "generally" die.
Like I said, in Darwin, it may be different ballgame because they are further from the top 
of the food chain than here.


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## Lewy (Jun 14, 2009)

Here's a thought how about getting more educated (at school may be) and learn to live with the animals that surround you. It disgusts me that people are so friggin ignorant to the fact that we as humans are *not *the most important animal on this planet

Lewy


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## waruikazi (Jun 14, 2009)

ssssnakeman said:


> I dont know about your area gordo, but here in southern Vic, the releases
> are quite successful.
> I have kept tabs on released animals from my surrounding areas and a few have
> come through the catch and release fine.
> ...



Righto i'll accept that. I know the survival rates increase the closer and sooner you release them to where they were collected but i think you are missing the point of my argument.


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## JasonL (Jun 14, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> You're right Jas i forgot that their is an infinite ammount of money and time to spend on animal captures. I'm totally stoked that you managed to overlook my two other points and chose to hone in on one, possibly the weakest reason, to make a strawman.
> 
> The quicker the capture, in majority of cases, the safer for all involved. Do you disagree?



I "honed" in on that point as thats all it really comes down to. I agree that re releasing gators is a waste of time in the majority of cases, it's pretty pointless taking gators out of the man made canals and ponds and putting them back into the everglades that are full of them already, I personally think the removal of these animals shouldn't be contracted out to money making cowboys. 
As for snake release, it totally depends on the species and the amount of available suitable habitat within the release site, whch boils down largely to the knowledge of the person who is releasing it, I think it's a load of BS on so many levels to think the majority won't survive.


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## JasonL (Jun 14, 2009)

Lewy said:


> Here's a thought how about getting more educated (at school may be) and learn to live with the animals that surround you. It disgusts me that people are so friggin ignorant to the fact that we as humans are *not *the most important animal on this planet
> 
> Lewy



Well thats the thing Lewy, but the further people become dis associated with nature, the less they care, many of these gators being caught and euthed are only reasonably small animals, that have eaten someones dog. People can't get it into their heads that an animal that is potentially dangerous should be allowed to live near humans, even if the people choose to live in the middle of their habitat. It's a bit like people wanting to build their houses right next to the bush, but want it cleared in case of a fire...


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## Lewy (Jun 14, 2009)

I see your point waruikazi regarding the faster the termination (if that is the best option) the better and no I was not aware of the damage sustained to the crocs from the traps. On saying that though these guys were really glorifying the whole act and both of them spent a very long time slowly realing in the croc and wearing him out until they could drag it to the shore and then lock it up for a drive somewhere else for euthanasia. That method certainly does not seem efficient (and still down right cruel for any animal to be dragged in by a body part - in the little one's case it was his foot). Perhaps they could shoot them. If it stays still enough for them to hook it then surely they could shoot it.

Sue


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## JasonL (Jun 14, 2009)

That reminds me of the doco where a true monster gator was trapped ( those hooks only work for the tiddlers ) and bought to the surface between the two trappers boats, a guy on one boat shot it in the head but part of the bullet ricocheted into a poor bloke in the other boat.. all caught on film.. he went to hospital but was OK...


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## redbellybite (Jun 14, 2009)

ssssnakeman said:


> I dont know about your area gordo, but here in southern Vic, the releases
> are quite successful.
> I have kept tabs on released animals from my surrounding areas and a few have
> come through the catch and release fine.
> ...


 I reckon you have to give some of us relocators more credit to Gordo ....I dont go and catch then dump the snake anywhere ...I have to find a suitable habitat that will have a water course and enough shelter away from the public....as Baz says ..it may be different up the top end but I have plenty of bushland and fortunantly water courses ,so its not that hard to find a healthy suitable place to relocate my snakes....and as Baz said to ,.I dont think they are that fragile either ...I understand what you were saying about the gator and croc situation...but doesnt mean I like it :evil:


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## Naja_nivea (Jun 16, 2009)

"The majority of snakes dont relocate well". Are there lots of good scientific papers backing this up? Is this the "majority" of species or individuals of all species? Are the snakes released into ideal habitat? Are the natural levels of mortality taken into account? Are these studies extensive and numerous or just some half assed PhD thesis? If there is something to this statement you repeated several times in 1 thread i would be interested to read about it 1st hand.

I think you have a good points Sue, rather than injure and stress the animals out then kill them why not shoot them? Maybe a time and money issue, ie rather than stalk the alligator they just fish for it to save time and money at the expense of the animals.

What do they expect when they move into swamps full of alligators. They drain wetlands and destroy the habitat to build houses, but keep some waterways for their boats. I suggest relocating the people that moved into the swamps, although the majority of oap's dont relocate well when released into remote desert habitat. Or maybe just get some hill billies to harpoon them, then shoot them to save time and money? :lol: :shock:


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## Vixen (Jun 16, 2009)

Lewy said:


> It disgusts me that people are so friggin ignorant to the fact that we as humans are *not *the most important animal on this planet
> 
> Lewy



Well said and totally agree.


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## waruikazi (Jun 16, 2009)

Naja_nivea said:


> "The majority of snakes dont relocate well". Are there lots of good scientific papers backing this up? Is this the "majority" of species or individuals of all species? Are the snakes released into ideal habitat? Are the natural levels of mortality taken into account? Are these studies extensive and numerous or just some half assed PhD thesis? If there is something to this statement you repeated several times in 1 thread i would be interested to read about it 1st hand.
> 
> I think you have a good points Sue, rather than injure and stress the animals out then kill them why not shoot them? Maybe a time and money issue, ie rather than stalk the alligator they just fish for it to save time and money at the expense of the animals.
> 
> What do they expect when they move into swamps full of alligators. They drain wetlands and destroy the habitat to build houses, but keep some waterways for their boats. I suggest relocating the people that moved into the swamps, although the majority of oap's dont relocate well when released into remote desert habitat. Or maybe just get some hill billies to harpoon them, then shoot them to save time and money? :lol: :shock:



Look mate i don't know why you've got all hot under the collar about this claim i have made and i can't answer all your questions. I don't know if there are lots of 'good scientific papers' on this topic, i haven't looked for them. I can direct you to a case study if you like, PM me if you are interested. I can't speak for others but all of the snakes i release go into an area with three of the main habitat types of my area nearby. I have no idea what the natural death rate of reptiles is. I'm sure if there are scientific papers on this topic that they will be peer reviewed before they are published but you would have to check that for yourself when or if you find any.


There is alot to my statement mate you if you weren't so emotionally charged about it you may be able to see it. It is not just my opinion, i first learnt about the survival rates from people i consider to be well respected herpers with many years of experience. I have had experiences that provide evidence to back this claim. 

The survival rate and success of any relocation is not as high as people like to beleive. If you disagree with me that is fine but just because you don't like what i say doesn't mean it is wrong.


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## BJC-787 (Jun 17, 2009)

did they say the hook was sharp.
in usa they use blunted hooks and cast it over the gator and real it in and it catches the aligator and they can real it in on the hook, i have seen it done on a 9ft aligator, because of the tough skin on the aligator it does not hurt the aligator,
it is also the law in usa that any aligator over 4ft is to be humainly killed because of there homing instinct it will come back to the same spot.


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## Beardieboy (Jun 17, 2009)

I believe it's illegal in Florida to re-release captured gators that are over a length limit, something about really strong homing instincts and danger to people yada yada. So unless they can find a sanctuary for them in captivity they are bound by law to kill them. They remove a lot of gators from human areas, so it is no surprise that lots get killed. I blame the people who feed them in the first place, then they lose their fear of people and have to be removed because they pose a threat. 

Doesn't make the capture methods ok but it's not the cowboys' fault they have to kill them.


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## redbellybite (Jun 17, 2009)

"cowboys" are a term used when the people are putting on a 'HERO' show and not giving two hoots about the animals welfare ....their lack of compasion and respect for the animal is terrible ...and that is what pee's alot of us off ..not the fact that the animal has to be euth'd .


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