# Bring Ball Pythons to Australia



## atothej09 (Jan 26, 2011)

I just love the look, size and temperament of the Ball Python.

Is there a petition we can organise and sign to send to the government to have an exception on this species??

I can't be the only one that wants one.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

According to customs you can get in most animals if you have the knowledge and High security facilities IE your own zoo. Just buy a zoo.


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## Crash (Jan 26, 2011)

Id do almost anything for a Ball Python, but i think the chances of getting our ozzie hands on one is zero to bucklies.


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## fabregasreptiles (Jan 26, 2011)

pfft. so many people in oz have ball pythons u couldn't even imagine it. unfortunately, they put regulations andd now we cant have them. but seriously, some of australian pythons can be nearly as colourful as some of the ball pythons


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## wiz-fiz (Jan 26, 2011)

NO!!! the risks of importing animals isn't worth it IMO. And once we have one exotic in people will want more, and if we get more we will have more of a chance of getting horrible diseases. So IMO if you want these animals go overseas. It might be harsh but thats my opinion. And my undersdtanding of why O/S have better looking snakes than us is because they breed ALOT more than us because of the snake owning population over there, and the more bred the more chance of crazy morphs popping up...


Will


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

You want a ball python go to the states Australia has so many beautiful animals I don't know what people can't be happy with them.


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## Luohanfan (Jan 26, 2011)

Ball pythons are already around, just not legal..
I much prefer our natives though, give me a bredli or darwin or bhp anyday..

Importing them wouldnt be too bad though, i dont see the risk as mentioned about disease etc..
I think its better to have a lot of things imported legally, and put through quarantine, than illegally with no quarantine...


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

Ball python are primative and boring.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Look what cats and dogs have done though. But they are still legal.....


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## Bez84 (Jan 26, 2011)

Luohanfan said:


> Ball pythons are already around, just not legal..
> I much prefer our natives though, give me a bredli or darwin or bhp anyday..
> 
> Importing them wouldnt be too bad though, i dont see the risk as mentioned about disease etc..
> I think its better to have a lot of things imported legally, and put through quarantine, than illegally with no quarantine...



Im offered or show ball pythons at least a handful of times in a year as well as other exotics i swear if u hang out in any petshop down sydney and talk about snakes there always some misinformed fellow itching to tell u about the corns or boas his uncle is selling lol.
And exotics must be moving up the coast as for the first time the other day in port i was offered corns....why does the world tempt me so lol.
Im quite happy with my natives thanks lol.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

What price do they offer you them at the only exotic I was ever offered was at 10,000. I was like not worth it not worth the fine. If it were cheaper I still wouldn't consider it. But I am curious the black market value of herps.


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## giglamesh (Jan 26, 2011)

every things already here if they legalised it they might be able to monitor exotics better


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Isn't the legislation on weed way stricter in QLD? Like isn't the price much higher.


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## jimmy_mtx (Jan 26, 2011)

Weeds too expensive in victoria too lol. Back to the point> So im guessing its completly impossible to bring in 2 ball pythons Male/Female and to breed them? Legal or not legal???


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## Inkage (Jan 26, 2011)

Given a choice i'd take retics over balls.. If we were ever ''allowed'' to have them..


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah I would rather a Retic much more impressive. The way things are going with Jag's and AHG's Looks like exotics are slowly getting into the hobby here. But I am no expert.


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## Inkage (Jan 26, 2011)

AHG? I'm not up to date on abreviated names for things..


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Asian House Gecko.


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## atothej09 (Jan 26, 2011)

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Aussie Pythons (always will), but I also love the look of the Ball Python. 
Each to their own, but I guess I am in a minority so far


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## Jarrod_H (Jan 26, 2011)

i wouldn't expect to be aloud to have all exotics/big exotics but just to legally get BP's and/or corns in AUS would be sweet!


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## Minka (Jan 26, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Aussie Pythons (always will), but I also love the look of the Ball Python.
> Each to their own, but I guess I am in a minority so far


 
No, your not.
The thing is most of the people who are pro exotics don't bother commenting on threads such as these due to the ridiculous notions of the many forum experts. You couldn't give me a ball python but there are many other exotics I'd love to poke a stick at. I also find it amusing this thread was started on Australia Day lol.


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## Bez84 (Jan 26, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> What price do they offer you them at the only exotic I was ever offered was at 10,000. I was like not worth it not worth the fine. If it were cheaper I still wouldn't consider it. But I am curious the black market value of herps.


OK here are average prices ive been offered over the years.....maybe i need to stop hanging out with shifty people lol
Prices depend on quality as with any animal.
Corns any where between $60 and $300 
Balls anywhere between $500 and $1000
Boas anywhere between $600 and $1500
Also been offered jackson charmeleons at around $150
Various exotic invertibrates all either the same or not much dearer in price to our natives 
Exotic geckos etc no dearer then our own.
So yeah i think with the amount ive seen over the years exotics are here to stay.
But yes its not worth the fine....and i havent really seen anyone who keeps both licenced natives and illegal exotics there usually kept by people who dont really know any better or just dont care cause there usually doing a heap of illegal stuff and illegal animals are the least of there problems lol.
But each to there own i dont judge as long as the animal isnt mistreated.


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## jordanmulder (Jan 26, 2011)

the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything.............. most of you guys have overlooked 
no.1 what has happened in america with them having exotics 
no.2 what introduced species have already done to australia


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## Stevo2 (Jan 26, 2011)

jimmy_mtx said:


> weeds too expensive in victoria too lol. Back to the point> so im guessing its completly impossible to bring in 2 ball pythons male/female and to breed them?* legal or not legal??*?



*not legal
*


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## Dipcdame (Jan 26, 2011)

One word .................... WHY??????


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## AM Pythons (Jan 26, 2011)

why import pythons? we have the best pythons here anyway... pit vipers, eye lash vipers,cobra's is what i want...lol..


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## edstar (Jan 26, 2011)

Love ball pythons. Shame we can't have em here.


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## chewbacca (Jan 26, 2011)

hog nose's are pretty awesome lookin too


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

What does the government do with seized animals? I know that in Adelaide some Hyacinth Macaws were seized and are in the Zoo but what about reps? Do they get killed, given to zoo's or reptile parks? if there are that many then there would be some sort of system.


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## FAY (Jan 27, 2011)

Seized exotics will be euthanised. Zoo's can only take so many.


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## D3pro (Jan 27, 2011)

Hahaha, if balls were made legal, basically every one here who said "nay" would buy one in an instant. 
Balls... I need a pair


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## ammers (Jan 27, 2011)

D3pro said:


> Hahaha, if balls were made legal, basically every one here who said "nay" would buy one in an instant.
> Balls... I need a pair



so so true


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

In that case they should have some kind of system to purchase the seized exotics on a licence. They shouldn't be euthanised just because they are here.


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## Australis (Jan 27, 2011)

someones been goggling.

Those duck-billed pythons are pretty boring.


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## D3pro (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> In that case they should have some kind of system to purchase the seized exotics on a licence. They shouldn't be euthanised just because they are here.


 
If they were to keep every exotic they seized... they would have more snakes then politicians have excuses



Australis said:


> someones been goggling.
> 
> Those duck-billed pythons are pretty boring.


 
No your a towel lol


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## Australis (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> In that case they should have some kind of system to purchase the seized exotics on a licence. They shouldn't be euthanised just because they are here.


 
Brilliant idea Danny - im lobbying for a similar system for colombian cocaine.
It shouldn't be incinerated just because its here and illegal.. ive got a glass coffee table/good home for it.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Obviously not every tom dick and harry should be able to get such a permit but rather people in the herp community who have advanced skills and knowledge (scientists maybe) at least that way they could reduce the useless killings of these animals.


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## FAY (Jan 27, 2011)

People know they are illegal to keep and sell. So if any get seized and euthanised, blame the owner, just a shame that these law breaking idiots don't get bigger fines/gaol sentences to deter them. Just a shame that an innocent animal suffers.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

IMO if you can have a macaw without a licence legally then there should be a system for exotic reps that way they aren't smuggled into the country and there is no disease spread and the animals that are here can live long fulfilling lives.

I can't believe that any yahoo with a fat wallet can buy a macaw without a permit but if you want a Red Tailed Black Cockatoo then you need a specialist permit. It's a messed up world we live in.

Although I did talk to a bird dealer who said that in SA they are trying to move the RTB to the basic permit.


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

Its a ball python.. I don't know why your fighting so hard over something that will probably never happen... Just accept the fact that were not getting them and shouldn't get them and just be thankful were even allowed to own Australian reptiles and see them in our backyard... I think that our natives are 100x better than any exotic....


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## D3pro (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> IMO if you can have a macaw without a licence legally then there should be a system for exotic reps that way they aren't smuggled into the country and there is no disease spread and the animals that are here can live long fulfilling lives.



No... if we started doing that then the system would appear logical lol



Mighty_Moose said:


> Its a ball python.. I don't know why your fighting so hard over something that will probably never happen... Just accept the fact that were not getting them and shouldn't get them and just be thankful were even allowed to own Australian reptiles and see them in our backyard... I think that our natives are 100x better than any exotic....



I can name several 100 species... most are pit vipers lol


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

I am not saying I want any I just think they shouldn't be killed because idiots illegally obtain them.


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## FAY (Jan 27, 2011)

Mighty_Moose said:


> Its a ball python.. I don't know why your fighting so hard over something that will probably never happen... Just accept the fact that were not getting them and shouldn't get them and just be thankful were even allowed to own Australian reptiles and see them in our backyard... I think that our natives are 100x better than any exotic....



Correct, took a long time for the Government to allow us to keep our own natives. I wouldn't push my luck.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

FAY said:


> Correct, took a long time for the Government to allow us to keep our own natives. I wouldn't push my luck.


 Still can't in Tasmania to a degree.


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## FAY (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Still can't in Tasmania to a degree.


I am personally talking about NSW.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Not about pushing our luck there should be a system in place to better regulate these animals the government should jump on the idea as there is a potential giant tax and you know how they love taxes I mean they make you pay to poison yourself (Cigarettes).


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

Hence why I said "I think".... And to be honest.... A system that actually stops smuggling of exotics ? It will just mean that there will be more people who own them.. the people who pay the license fee and those who don't.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah but there are people who have our natives who don't pay the licence fee. Potential revenue for the government, more disease control and animal welfare taken into consideration I think someone here needs to get high up on the political ladder and raise this issue.

Unfortunately I am too young to do so at this stage and I have no intention on a political career as I have a soul bound to be someone who will though.


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

Raise the issue, I'm sure they have more on the plate than to look at people wanting to 'save the exotic potential threat to our environment reptiles'. I don't hate exotics.. I think there are some very nice looking exotics.. But your thinking about potentially giving exotics to anyone who fills out a form...

The government will never be able to 'police' any thing like your proposing completely.. There will always be someone who will break that law and take advantage... And thats when the problems start.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

They shouldn't be offered to just anyone only people who are very serious and have ties with scientific organisations/zoo's obviously zoo keepers should be on the list of people who can apply and other people similar.


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

But there is only so many people can take in... Taronga Zoo for example has a corn snake that is used for education... You can't rescue them all... Think about the pounds a very large % of those dogs are put down.. I don't know what your looking for.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Not talking about the zoo's themselves but the keepers should be able to take seized animals into their custody and anyone with equal or greater experience to the zoo keepers. So that there could potentially be a reduction of the animals smuggled in and housed incorrectly. What I am looking for is a decent all round system for the treatment and legality of animals just because reptiles aren't on the high popular list in Australia people can't get the exotics like they can birds, cats and dogs which would do more damage because cat's and dogs escape all the time. Snakes and other herps are generally kept more secure especially if they are kept by an experienced keeper.

But saying you want a decent system when politicians are involved is just ludicrous.


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## Australis (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> IMO if you can have a macaw without a licence legally then there should be a system for exotic reps that way they aren't smuggled into the country and there is no disease spread and the animals that are here can live long fulfilling lives.



People are smuggling in natives like GTP (Albino hets etc), Jaguar Carpets, Zebra Carpets, Granite Carpets (claiming they are North Westerns/Darwins), Albino BHP... etc etc etc


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

See that shouldn't be illegal if done through customs like a dog/cat so long as the bloodline is pure.


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## SCam (Jan 27, 2011)

If you were to "legally" import ball pythons into Australia I can see there being the same problem like America with the burmese pythons..
IMO this just shouldn't be done, too much of a risk with deseases an infestation.
You already see threads with people finding Corns in their back yard (aren't native).
Had mates tell me of people finding them on eggs.
Same with the cane toad issue there will be no good introducing an exotic animal into this country.
Basically if you want to bring exotic species into the aussie environment an screw up the native wildlife more than it already is you obviously don't love ya country.
You may say that "aww this will never happin, my snakes won't excape" ya full of it, it will happin eventually.
Cam


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

I understand your points and I do feel bad that the animals have a need to be euthanized but think about it this way... They flow of animals has not been stopped by the euthanasia of these animals and like you said "reptiles aren't on the high popular list" so there will only be a certain amount of people that will accept these animals, what happens when these people become 'inundated' with animals ? I suppose there is only so many retics one can have, what happens then ?


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## scottyo998 (Jan 27, 2011)

I can understand why it wont happen, and some reasons are valid. The thing i dont understand i why people have the mentality of 'because we cant own them, im going to bag them and say they are ugly and that our snakes are better'..Why cant people just admire beautiful animals, regardless of whether you can own one?...


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Then they have to be euthanised I suppose. But that would be a reduction at least. If you can save the life of one wouldn't you feel proud in some way? If through a system one animal was saved then it would all be worthwhile in my opinion but it would be more than one as there would be plenty of people willing to take them on who have the proper experience. Not as many as people who want cats but its something.


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## Mighty_Moose (Jan 27, 2011)

I can understand your point. But they save as many as they can! Once you start allowing people to take things home thats when you have 'human error'.. Not saying zoo's and other institutes are 'human error' free, they have codes and regulations to help fix that error and a LOT more resources available. Stuff happens to even the most 'expert' of keepers and I don't want that loose snake to be a retic..


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

They save as many as they can under the current system. They need to amend it to save more.

The way things are heading there will probably be certain exotics we can keep anyway. Look at the situation with Jags... Depending on how common they are and other factors.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jan 27, 2011)

i am glad that ball pythons will NEVER be legal in Australia,and i reckon Australians who want them need to relise they are spolit enough with the best reptiles in the world,so why selfishly want to own these gay ball pythons,when we live in a herpers paradise already why risk it with these ridiculous ball pythons or any other potentially invsive environmentally damaging crap


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## gman1 (Jan 27, 2011)

hey guys & girls, i think its a good thing that you dont important them to be honest. although the market is huge every were else for royals & big money to be made. on a positive point if there were legal it would make a good deal of money on revenue. you have the most amazing herps over there that you dont need to have royals. look at us here in ireland, we dont really have anyting, although the hobby is growing & there is plenty of herp keepers with nice collections over here, its mainly made up of royals, retics, burms, boas & some nice carpets. but we defo would love to have some more aussie herps. we have a few womas & childrens going around & i think maybe 1 keeper of BHP's. he's on this forum,mark. as someone has said already, your over run with cane toads that are havin a bad effect on your native wildlife already. dont take the risk of doing more damage. so as said abouve "you have a herpers paradice" so why change that but hey, if any of you aussies want to fly some of them nice aussie herps to ireland.. feel free lol 

















there is a few pics of some i breed last year


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## Bez84 (Jan 27, 2011)

Only exotics we are going to see on licence are the ones that match our natives and can be passed off as such.
Like the jags have been or the soon to suddenly appear zebra jungles, Albino BHPs the list goes on...
So unless you can convince the governent that your ball python is just a weird new children python morph then probably not going to own one legally anytime soon lol.


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## hrafna (Jan 27, 2011)

i get that some people might like the diverse range of morphs for the ball python, but for me they look so ugly. to me it seems to be more of a "look what i have, you don't have one like this" deal! i have yet to see a ball python that to me personally looks prettier than some of our natives!


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## daniel1234 (Jan 27, 2011)

I know they are here both captive and wild but just hate the ferrals we have now to start legalising more of them....as awsome as they are. If they did make it legal put me down for a bunch of venomous imports.

I agree with you hrafna. I think there are plenty of natives to keep us busy and hostestly I like our head shapes more than alot of the exotic pythons.


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 27, 2011)

All these patriots on here...
I think that if they were made legal, all of us would get some exotics...
no matter what you all say.

Come on, who would not want a pair of Chameleons?


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## atothej09 (Jan 27, 2011)

Great input from everyone, thanks for that. Nothing like a good debate, but I don't understand the members stating that some members are not happy with the species we have, I think ALL members are extremely happy with what we have in Australia but whats wrong with wanting to have more? 
This doesn't make me greedy, just an enthusiast. Most snake keepers have their snakes under lock and key in captivity, as I am sure we do not want them to escape, so to compare them to Cane Toads is just ridiculous, not the same thing, they were deliberately released into the wild for a reason, why would you release Ball Pythons (or any exotic) into the wild?? 
To say 'Never' is just plain giving up, we are the people and we should have a say on what happens in our own country. There is so much that happens in our country that I do not believe or agree with, but that still happens without our approval...but that's getting too political. 
People can keep all types of exotic fish, dogs, cats, birds, insects etc without issues, is that out of control? 
I singled out Ball Python as my own personal choice, and I agree with other members that Boas, Retics etc are also beautiful animals, and I hope the day comes that these enthusiasts can obtain them. If certain species is proven to not survive in certain countries, then I understand why those species should be illegal. So many other countries around the world have all types of snake species without issues, why not pose the question to the public, scientists, zoologists, herp groups etc and see what the ultimate response is. 
Thanks again for all the great input!


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## SamNabz (Jan 27, 2011)

hrafna said:


> i get that some people might like the diverse range of morphs for the ball python, but for me they look so ugly. to me it seems to be more of a "look what i have, you don't have one like this" deal! i have yet to see a ball python that to me personally looks prettier than some of our natives!



What do you think of this one hrafna

​


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## pythons73 (Jan 27, 2011)

Well sorry to put a dampening on things,BUT these are already here,same with Burmese,Corns,Kingsnakes,milksnakes and so on.From a few people the Balls are being bred in good numbers also..As they generally only grow smallish(4ft) alot of people do own them..I love Aus natives pythons,we have one of the best reptile species in the world..I will pick a Gtp,BHP,woma, or even a nice Diamond then one of these,however if i was in America,England etc i may change my mind..


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## Tristan (Jan 27, 2011)

as much as i do like some of the exotics i still feel Aus is much better off for not allowing them here, we have already had some pretty big issues with imported animals, and as for legalizing them to make it easier to control, i cant help but wonder why if so many people on this forum are so regularly offered exotics why cant the conservation officials from each state set up stings, etc to track down these exotic keepers and confiscate/fine the crap out of them. 

or have people from the herp community as honorary officers that can obtain a specimen and information hand it over to the officials to help catch them crooks. 

and Aus probably needs to improve is laws on the keeping of local animals before it even considers making it even more complicated by adding exotics


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## killimike (Jan 27, 2011)

IMHO these exotics threads are very much the same every time, but at least for a complete newb they are entertaining to read 

Each to their own opinion and reasons for it! It's a free country.

But do I really need to be told I don't 'love my country' if I don't spit venom at the discussion of making exotics allowable? And ball pythons, kept by thousands around the world, are 'gay' and 'crap'?

Thanks to all the other posters who are actually able to contribute something to an interesting discussion.


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

jordanmulder said:


> the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything.............. most of you guys have overlooked
> no.1 what has happened in america with them having exotics
> no.2 what introduced species have already done to australia



Doesn't happen with every species of animal though in every area. Where are the wild guinea pigs, love bird's, ferret's, canary's etc.. Yes I understand that there are a lot of others that have survived, but I doubt anything would be as devistating to the local fauna as cats and there is no restrictions to keep people from owning and breeding cats... Ball's, chameleon's, boa's are already here in big numbers and have been for ages... The threat they pose is already there and probably more significant since people may off load excess animals into the wild. I think things like exotic turtles pose more of a threat though...
Some animals just arent suited to the climate. For example I doubt a GTP python would survive in the wild of Tasmania or Perth for that matter.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

We are still developing at this stage the country (getting on its feet we are a young nation) and the hobby. I have only been offered one exotic herp and that guy was interstate so I can't say for sure that exotics have hit South Australia much.... I don't think anytime soon we will have exotics but saying never is a bit rash as the country will still be here in a thousand years time. It may be sooner that exotics are aloud whether or not it happens meh as there are places we can see them. All I want is that the innocent animals aren't killed simply because they were smuggled/kept here and I am sure there would be some system that could be put into place to protect them better than what we have now. Perhaps allowing private owned reptile parks to have exotics (If they can't already) and hey we could do our bit making a APS reptile park in each state. (Yeah I'm dreaming).


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## bump73 (Jan 27, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> . Most snake keepers have their snakes under lock and key in captivity, as I am sure we do not want them to escape, so to compare them to Cane Toads is just ridiculous, not the same thing, they were deliberately released into the wild for a reason, why would you release Ball Pythons (or any exotic) into the wild??



Mate that comments just plain ridiculous. Do a search of escaped snake threads on this site and you will see how many people lose their snakes, seems to be a couple of threads every week on the topic. Not to mention the amount of wild corn snakes that are found by snake catchers. As much as i love Ball pythons it ain't going to happen..


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## SamNabz (Jan 27, 2011)

Tristan said:


> as much as i do like some of the exotics i still feel Aus is much better off for not allowing them here, we have already had some pretty big issues with imported animals, and as for legalizing them to make it easier to control, i cant help but wonder why if so many people on this forum are so regularly offered exotics why cant the conservation officials from each state set up stings, etc to track down these exotic keepers and confiscate/fine the crap out of them.
> 
> or have people from the herp community as honorary officers that can obtain a specimen and information hand it over to the officials to help catch them crooks.
> 
> and Aus probably needs to improve is laws on the keeping of local animals before it even considers making it even more complicated by adding exotics



It will never happen Tristan. Anything illegal whether it's drugs or animal smuggling will and can't ever be stopped.


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

$NaKe PiMp said:


> i am glad that ball pythons will NEVER be legal in Australia,and i reckon Australians who want them need to relise they are spolit enough with the best reptiles in the world,so why selfishly want to own these gay ball pythons,when we live in a herpers paradise already why risk it with these ridiculous ball pythons or any other potentially invsive environmentally damaging crap


 
Pretty simple really... Just different people with different tastes. Imagine if the only tucker we could eat was Australian cuisine.  Just stirring the pot! But I think people are entitled to be captivated and like the look of what ever animal they please. Saying they should only like natives is a bit strange, perhaps fish keepers and bird keepers should also only keep natives. Herp keepers are discriminated against when compared to the exotic fish and bird trade in Australia.


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## killimike (Jan 27, 2011)

Very well said Snowman! 

Unfortunately things are more likely to move in the other direction, with fish and mammal keepers more and more restricted in what exotics they can keep. And to be 110% fair, sometimes this is justified. Knee-jerk banning is just excessive, tho.

But please don't joke about Australian "cuisine".... Thank God we have some alternatives


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> Great input from everyone, thanks for that. Nothing like a good debate, but I don't understand the members stating that some members are not happy with the species we have, I think ALL members are extremely happy with what we have in Australia but whats wrong with wanting to have more?
> This doesn't make me greedy, just an enthusiast. Most snake keepers have their snakes under lock and key in captivity, as I am sure we do not want them to escape, so to compare them to Cane Toads is just ridiculous, not the same thing, they were deliberately released into the wild for a reason, why would you release Ball Pythons (or any exotic) into the wild??
> To say 'Never' is just plain giving up, we are the people and we should have a say on what happens in our own country. There is so much that happens in our country that I do not believe or agree with, but that still happens without our approval...but that's getting too political.
> People can keep all types of exotic fish, dogs, cats, birds, insects etc without issues, is that out of control?
> ...



It's called 'for the common good'...



> People can keep all types of exotic fish, dogs, cats, birds, insects etc without issues, is that out of control?



The answer is mostly... yes, it is out of control. Various species of all of those things are at large in the Australian environment, doing major damage to populations of native species.

*Fish*: European Carp (goldfish), various Cichlids, Gambusia. *Dogs:* Wild dogs cause problems for pastoralists and native fauna all over Australia. *Cats:* nothing needs to be said about them. *Birds:* Sparrows, Starlings, Mynahs, Rock Pigeons and others, including Aussie natives out of their home range... crowd out native species in all capital cities and the bush and cause economic damage to crops, buildings etc. *Insects:* European Wasps, Fire Ants, the Honeybee and others...

When you look at what has been unleashed on the Australian environment, it's no wonder that bureaucrats are saying 'no more!' Just because you want to have something different (which will be a tempoaray state anyway... once they are commonplace, their appeal will diminish), is no reason for anyone to take your deamnd seriously.

You'll have to put up far better arguments than 'just because I want one' to win any concession in this debate.

Jamie


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

i think thay should alow us to import snakes that come from here any way like zebras, jags, axanthic carpets so on thats what i would like to see i wouldnt mind paying for them to be qurantined if we where allowed to import some of the cool morphs that are from australian snakes


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2011)

crikey said:


> i think thay should alow us to import snakes that come from here any way like zebras, jags, axanthic carpets so on thats what i would like to see i wouldnt mind paying for them to be qurantined if we where allowed to import some of the cool morphs that are from australian snakes



Have you enquired about the costs of quarantine... before making that generous offer?

J


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

no but i would pay it any way if i could own like an albino green tree python or axanthic carpet wouldnt you plus once thay breed here you would get like between 10-30 hatchlings so you would make your money back any way


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## Tristan (Jan 27, 2011)

SamNabz said:


> It will never happen Tristan. Anything illegal whether it's drugs or animal smuggling will and can't ever be stopped.


 
you are quite right, and more often than not making something harder to obtain only makes it more valuable and desirable it is most defiantly a difficult line to toe, still with so many people regularly being offered exotics, i guess the difficult task is how to protect the Australian environment from exotic import disasters like cane toads


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

Tristan said:


> you are quite right, and more often than not making something harder to obtain only makes it more valuable and desirable it is most defiantly a difficult line to toe, still with so many people regularly being offered exotics, i guess the difficult task is how to protect the Australian environment from exotic import disasters like cane toads


 
Cane toads weren't so much an exotic import disaster but rather an exotic release disaster. They were intentionally released to eat the cane beetles. A few of our ferral animals have been intentionally released. The indian myner was released to eat insects from crops. The kookaburra at Perth zoo is another good example of intentional release, just another predator for WA herps to contend with. Sometimes it isn't the private keepers who **** up for everyone....
And congrats to the pomms who brought in sparrows, starlings, black birds, turtle doves, etc back in the day to make it feel more like home... Nice work!


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2011)

crikey said:


> no but i would pay it any way if i could own like an albino green tree python or axanthic carpet wouldnt you plus once thay breed here you would get like between 10-30 hatchlings so you would make your money back any way


 
You're obviously a gambler crikey... Quarantine costs would be in the thousands of dollars, if the animal had a problem discovered during quarantine, it wouldn't be 'cured', it would be destroyed, and who's to say you'll successfully breed it down the track? Counting your hatchlings before they hatch is one thing, but counting your hatchlings before eggs are laid is another thing altogether...

J


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## hrafna (Jan 27, 2011)

SamNabz said:


> What do you think of this one hrafna
> 
> View attachment 183493​


 
i can see why many would consider it pretty, but i wouldn't fork out money for it.


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> You're obviously a gambler crikey... Quarantine costs would be in the thousands of dollars, if the animal had a problem discovered during quarantine, it wouldn't be 'cured', it would be destroyed, and who's to say you'll successfully breed it down the track? Counting your hatchlings before they hatch is one thing, but counting your hatchlings before eggs are laid is another thing altogether...


lol its just what i would do plus i would make sure i get it of someone that has a clean collection yes iknow what you are saying and its tru but if i had the opertunity to do this i would take it thats just my opinion its ok if you wouldnt but your loss


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## moosenoose (Jan 27, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Cane toads weren't so much an exotic import disaster but rather an exotic release disaster. They were intentionally released to eat the cane beetles. A few of our ferral animals have been intentionally released. The indian myner was released to eat insects from crops. The kookaburra at Perth zoo is another good example of intentional release, just another predator for WA herps to contend with. Sometimes it isn't the private keepers who **** up for everyone....
> And congrats to the pomms who brought in sparrows, starlings, black birds, turtle doves, etc back in the day to make it feel more like home... Nice work!


 
And the odd fox and rabbit :lol:


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## beeman (Jan 27, 2011)

crikey said:


> lol its just what i would do plus i would make sure i get it of someone that has a clean collection yes iknow what you are saying and its tru but if i had the opertunity to do this i would take it thats just my opinion its ok if you wouldnt but your loss



Glad you have that sort of money to speculate on a possiable loss situation!
A close friend has just imported a dog from the USA, It spent the last 3 months in isolation in the states and now in the country it will spend another 4 weeks in isolation here. Total cost to get this animal here including Quarentine cost of approx$18000


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

what type of dog is it cause that is way to much for querentine my mums sister had a dog imported dog was $1000 or something like that and quarentine was $500 with no extra charge


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> And the odd fox and rabbit :lol:


LOL yeah, what would this country be without releasing some ferral animals to shoot for sport.


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## atothej09 (Jan 27, 2011)

bump73 said:


> Mate that comments just plain ridiculous. Do a search of escaped snake threads on this site and you will see how many people lose their snakes, seems to be a couple of threads every week on the topic. Not to mention the amount of wild corn snakes that are found by snake catchers. As much as i love Ball pythons it ain't going to happen..


 
Thanks bump73, I did a search and saw quite a number of threads relating to lost snakes, but after a good read also noticed allot of those snakes were eventually found and returned to their enclosures. My comment ridiculous?? I don't think so, comparing Cane Toads to the odd snake being lost are two different things, but I do see your point to a degree. 
I also made the comment to put it out there to Scientists etc, if they can convince me that keeping Ball Pythons could cause a major 'Cane Toad' catastrophe, then I would be dead against it, but can anyone prove it? If so, please give me the web link to where this information is so I can have a good read.
Keep the comments coming!


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## SamNabz (Jan 27, 2011)

beeman said:


> Glad you have that sort of money to speculate on a possiable loss situation!
> A close friend has just imported a dog from the USA, It spent the last 3 months in isolation in the states and now in the country it will spend another 4 weeks in isolation here. *Total cost to get this animal here including Quarentine cost of approx$18000*



Lmfao, that's just crazy...


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## beeman (Jan 27, 2011)

SamNabz said:


> Lmfao, that's just crazy...


Its not crazy if you want a certain line of an animal1

We do it with Honeybees, we bring in queen stock from outside of Australia to help improve our production genetics, These queens end up costing between$4000-$6000
and we are not alowed to bring the original stock out of the quarentine station, they are sampled and tested and only if they come up clean are we allowed to graft daughters from them, Once this is done the original imported stock is destroyed!


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

ball pythons proberly would not survive anyway in australia if thay exscapted. and all of yous are saying look what happend with the burmese pythons in america but if yous whatch python hunters on nat geo wild on austar all of the burms are diying and its said that in like 5 years thay will be totally gone from usa and also thay have a rule that if you see a burm in usa thats in the wild you have either capture it your self or call the orthorities so thay can come and remove it so if we had some thing like this in aus that would help to control any proplem that mite come up with balls escaping


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## bump73 (Jan 27, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> I also made the comment to put it out there to Scientists etc, if they can convince me that keeping Ball Pythons could cause a major 'Cane Toad' catastrophe, then I would be dead against it, but can anyone prove it? If so, please give me the web link to where this information is so I can have a good read.
> Keep the comments coming!


 
I guess we should get some scientists to release them in the wild just to see what happens then. As it stands if you are serious and willing to put the money up you will have to prove they wouldn't cause a cane toad situation as you are the one trying to change the law not the other way round..

By the way what about the corn snake situation, it is a well known fact that there are populations of these around Sydney which started fromk released or escaped animals.

Ben

Thats all i have to say on the topic as amusing as these "school holiday" threads are they are just a waste of time


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## SCam (Jan 27, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> Great input from everyone, thanks for that. Nothing like a good debate, but I don't understand the members stating that some members are not happy with the species we have, I think ALL members are extremely happy with what we have in Australia but whats wrong with wanting to have more?
> This doesn't make me greedy, just an enthusiast. Most snake keepers have their snakes under lock and key in captivity, as I am sure we do not want them to escape, so to compare them to Cane Toads is just ridiculous, not the same thing, they were deliberately released into the wild for a reason, why would you release Ball Pythons (or any exotic) into the wild??
> To say 'Never' is just plain giving up, we are the people and we should have a say on what happens in our own country. There is so much that happens in our country that I do not believe or agree with, but that still happens without our approval...but that's getting too political.
> People can keep all types of exotic fish, dogs, cats, birds, insects etc without issues, is that out of control?
> ...


Cmon mate, you have to know that is just BS.
Yeah fair enough cane toads may have intentionally been released, but from that anything that has been introduced into Australia has just caused more problems..
People that keep corns an red eared slider turtles kept em without the intention of releasing them.. Well look where they are now, messing with our environment.
Then you get these people who want to import these different morph pythons that are actually native to Australia. like Albino BHP, zebra Jungles, jags etc. If you want these "beautiful morphs" put in the years of breeding from pure animals rather than taking the easy way out an importing or cross breeding animals..
You say "wanting exotic reptiles only makes me more of an enthusiast..)
Well mate if your such an enthusiast move to America where you can have em instead of bringin the crap here.
Cam


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## Stevo2 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> IMO if you can have a macaw without a licence legally then there should be a system for exotic reps that way they aren't smuggled into the country and there is no disease spread and the animals that are here can live long fulfilling lives.
> 
> I can't believe that any yahoo with a fat wallet can buy a macaw without a permit but if you want a Red Tailed Black Cockatoo then you need a specialist permit. It's a messed up world we live in.
> 
> Although I did talk to a bird dealer who said that in SA they are trying to move the RTB to the basic permit.


 
Seriously? You want to compare apples to house bricks? The permit/licence system is designed to protect our native fauna; to stop people taking RTBs, etc, from the wild. The law with regards to Exotic parrots is that the owner must be able to, if asked, provide provenance of a legal importation, or existance of lineage from the NEBRS registration scheme. The importation of Exotic parrots is also ILLEGAL. Has been for ages.


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

who cares if someone likes a snake from a differnt country thats ok. what is this world coming to what now peope can want some thing from another country gee, yes i would love to have a ball python and yes i would also love to have our carpets what is wrong with that. i would also like to own a some spiders from overseas what are yous all going to say that we have some of the best spiders in the world here in aus so i shouldnt wont to get one from overseas. get real people


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Stevo2 said:


> Seriously? You want to compare apples to house bricks? The permit/licence system is designed to protect our native fauna; to stop people taking RTBs, etc, from the wild. The law with regards to Exotic parrots is that the owner must be able to, if asked, provide provenance of a legal importation, or existance of lineage from the NEBRS registration scheme. The importation of Exotic parrots is also ILLEGAL. Has been for ages.


 I wasn't talking about importing I am against the importation of exotics what I was talking about is the ones already here just like the exotic snakes....Rather than kill them implement a system to control/regulate them so that they aren't smuggled in as often.


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 27, 2011)

My Signature speaks for itself  ..but of course if ever done,should be done legally and properly quarantined, enough so we can establish a pet trade population to reduce any importing at all...Also i think a study should be taken befor they decide which exotics would pose a threat.. E.g Leopard Tortoise, green iguana's,certain species of chameleons,some gecko's and of course some snakes,i believe couldn't pose a threat to our environment.  dont get me wrong tho,Australia does have some of the best looking pythons species!..did i mention the MADDEST Varanid species..


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## bump73 (Jan 27, 2011)

Okay if you people are serious about this I suggest gettin Crikey to write up the petition, I can see it now.....

"I rekon yous shuld let us keep Ball Pythons in australia. One of the reasons is ball pythons proberly would not survive anyway in australia if thay exscapted. I really wont one so can we keep them??"


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 27, 2011)

bump73 said:


> Okay if you people are serious about this I suggest gettin Crikey to write up the petition, I can see it now.....
> 
> "I rekon yous shuld let us keep Ball Pythons in australia. One of the reasons is ball pythons proberly would not survive anyway in australia if thay exscapted. I really wont one so can we keep them??"


 
hahahaha ... I think I would take more of a scientific approach!


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## SCam (Jan 27, 2011)

bump73 said:


> Okay if you people are serious about this I suggest gettin Crikey to write up the petition, I can see it now.....
> 
> "I rekon yous shuld let us keep Ball Pythons in australia. One of the reasons is ball pythons proberly would not survive anyway in australia if thay exscapted. I really wont one so can we keep them??"



LOL funny comment


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

I think that they should do some reaserch and find any species that doesn't pose a threat to our native ecosystems but who would fund such research? If done you could then petition and apply to have ball pythons legalized only if you could prove that they would not thrive in Australian conditions. I wouldn't go through the effort for Ball pythons myself its not worth it IMO but there are some species I think it would be worthwhile for. I think that the animals that are here already should be given to people who have proved can care for them and sign an agreement not to breed them so that they don't have to be killed.


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## Stevo2 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> I wasn't talking about importing I am against the importation of exotics what I was talking about is the ones already here just like the exotic snakes....Rather than kill them implement a system to control/regulate them so that they aren't smuggled in as often.


 
Yes, but the exotic reptiles that are here were never a legal import, unlike the parrots. BTW, exotic parrots that are confiscated for being unable to prove provenance are also euthanised - unless the zoos want them, which they dont because they dont have the room or the funding to keep them.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

There would be some that were of illegal import originally but handed to zoo's and other organisations such as the Hyacinth Macaws at Adelaide Zoo. Their offspring would be legal wouldn't they? Or did the zoo only get them because they are critically endangered and killing them would have caused an uproar?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 27, 2011)

> who cares if someone likes a snake from a differnt country thats ok. what is this world coming to what now peope can want some thing from another country gee, yes i would love to have a ball python and yes i would also love to have our carpets what is wrong with that. i would also like to own a some spiders from overseas what are yous all going to say that we have some of the best spiders in the world here in aus so i shouldnt wont to get one from overseas. get real people



lol...this isn't about an animalistic racism, it's about protecting our environment and in the larger sense the globe. 
You get real.


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

Jannico said:


> lol...this isn't about an animalistic racism, it's about protecting our environment and in the larger sense the globe.
> You get real.


 
If that was the case then cats would be illegal... Exotic reptiles are already here and their impact is already here too..


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## Braidotti (Jan 27, 2011)

Off topic, but what animal is able to eat cane toads ?


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## Jen (Jan 27, 2011)

I couldn't be bothered reading most of this thread, it really has been done to death, and there will never be agreement. Sure, there are many many exotics already here, but saying that 'they are here already, lets just legalise them' is silly. In some states it isn't even legal to keep a) all Australian species, b) all species native to that state for crying out loud, maybe we should be working on those restrictions rather than lobbying to bring in exotics. 
Personally, I would kill (those of you who know me know this is NOT an exaggeration) for a chameleon, but I am realistic, and would be ecstatic over seeing laws change so I could keep Amyae. 
If exotics were allowed in, I can see them having to be sterilised, and yet there would still be people smuggling in fertile specimens to breed. No regulations will ever be fully enforced in regards to exotics, so IMO it is better that things stay the way they are, but maybe punish the owners more rigorously.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 27, 2011)

I know. 


> If that was the case then cats would be illegal... Exotic reptiles are already here and their impact is already here too..



Not saying there not.


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## Stevo2 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> There would be some that were of illegal import originally but handed to zoo's and other organisations such as the Hyacinth Macaws at Adelaide Zoo. Their offspring would be legal wouldn't they? Or did the zoo only get them because they are critically endangered and killing them would have caused an uproar?


 
Those animals, and their progeny if any, remain illegal to the general public; they're only tradeable amongst zoos. Adelaide zoo only got the macaws because they figure they get people through the front gate and generate income. IIRC they're both males anyway. There have been many more, rarer, macaws confiscated recently in Victoria that were euthanised, so no, the government doesnt care if there is uproar or not (which there was).


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## matt01 (Jan 27, 2011)

keel backs can eat cane toads when they are in tadpole form or small toads. 
A lot of snakes in Asia feed on toads and could prob take on toad here in Aust.


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## harley0402 (Jan 27, 2011)

i would like a ball python


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## Snowman (Jan 27, 2011)

On the topic of Mawcaws Egg-on-face sting a budgie smuggle flop


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Stevo2 said:


> Those animals, and their progeny if any, remain illegal to the general public; they're only tradeable amongst zoos. Adelaide zoo only got the macaws because they figure they get people through the front gate and generate income. IIRC they're both males anyway. There have been many more, rarer, macaws confiscated recently in Victoria that were euthanised, so no, the government doesnt care if there is uproar or not (which there was).


It was a conservation thing they are not and have not been on display for years you can get a sneak peak at them when you pass to go see the panda's but that is it. Which is disappointing as they are one of the most incredible birds in the world. They are looking to put them on display to the public once they have an enclosure in the display area but that might be a while away as they just wasted millions on panda's. The zoo has bred animals that have been introduced into private collection from time to time but I think it is a phase in period going to a keeper then they breed them and start to sell kind of thing.


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## ammers (Jan 27, 2011)

apart from legal reasons there isnt much diffrence between keeping GTP's, BHP, olives, jungles or exotics in say Melbourne because if none of these animals are found in Victoria so the threat of them all escaping is the same.I live in NSW so what is the diffrence between one of my jungles getting out and into the bush and a corn or ball python escaping?


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Snowman said:


> On the topic of Mawcaws Egg-on-face sting a budgie smuggle flop


LOL the article says that a Macaw fetches 30grand on the black marked when legal ones go for 7-10 grand.... Unless its a different Macaw mix up of pictures.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 27, 2011)

I'm not sure but I don't most of those species would survive in say Melbourne.


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## Stevo2 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> It was a conservation thing they are not and have not been on display for years you can get a sneak peak at them when you pass to go see the panda's but that is it. Which is disappointing as they are one of the most incredible birds in the world. They are looking to put them on display to the public once they have an enclosure in the display area but that might be a while away as they just wasted millions on panda's. The zoo has bred animals that have been introduced into private collection from time to time but I think it is a phase in period going to a keeper then they breed them and start to sell kind of thing.



They only went off display to make way for the new enclosures.... Yes, they are great birds - I've had the pleasure of training with them in the US. You'll find that the zoo bred animals that were introduced into private collections either were from LEGAL sources originally (and allowed to be kept species), or done on the sly by less than reputable keepers... I have purchased a bird, surplus to requirements, from a zoo in the past.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

You are a lucky man to work with such amazing species. What kind of bird was it that you purchased? They have been of display for too long I haven't had a good glimpse of them in over 5 years.  They have a blue and gold macaw free flight but that is nothing to spectacular as Blue and Golds are sold fairly regularly to people and I know a few breeders with them I want to get up close to the worlds largest parrot. All I am saying is that animals all had to come from somewhere and there is no way that they just happened to fly into peoples cages (other than traps). I mean we have a ban on exporting of Australian Natives yet America and other countries seem to be able to get whatever they want. These exotic animals have done nothing wrong and something needs to be done to protect them once they are within Australia. Unless they are incredibly common in which case they should concentrate on the rarer species.


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## Stevo2 (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> You are a lucky man to work with such amazing species. What kind of bird was it that you purchased? They have been of display for too long I haven't had a good glimpse of them in over 5 years.  They have a blue and gold macaw free flight but that is nothing to spectacular as Blue and Golds are sold fairly regularly to people and I know a few breeders with them I want to get up close to the worlds largest parrot. All I am saying is that animals all had to come from somewhere and there is no way that they just happened to fly into peoples cages (other than traps). I mean we have a ban on exporting of Australian Natives yet America and other countries seem to be able to get whatever they want. These exotic animals have done nothing wrong and something needs to be done to protect them once they are within Australia. Unless they are incredibly common in which case they should concentrate on the rarer species.


 
Yup, we've gone a bit off topic.. lol. Hys are gentle and very intelligent (as are most of the parrots, lol). Very easy to work with and learn behaviours really well.  If you want to get up close and personal with one then I suggest you head to Ashmore Palms Holiday Village on the Gold Coast - they have one on display. Nice bird too, it shares an aviary with a couple of Red-Fronted macaws.  I purchased an Alexandrine, well before they were being kept widely in the hobby. He was with me for 15years before succumbing to cancer. Now I have my yellow-nape amazon. Not going to delve into the mess that is the illegal smuggling of our wildlife overseas...


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2011)

Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages. No petition from members of APS is going to change Federal minds on this. It's not going to happen just because you want one in your loungeroom.

The blanket ban on exotics works very well for the bureaucrats - if you are a private person and you are caught with an exotic reptile, you are breaking the law (with the exception of those granted permits under amnesty in NSW and Vic in the 90s). There are no grey areas to prove in court. Which is why the legalised import won't happen, it will create a mix of legal and illegal animals which will make prosecution much more complex. And don't kid yourself that allowing legal imports will reduce the temptation to smuggle - it will increase smuggling due to the sudden appearance of a legal market, and the difficulty in distinguishing legal from illegal animals.

Of course, if you have vast amounts of money and influence, rules can be 'bent' - even in WA, where John Roberts had a collection of Galapagos Tortoises on licence at his property in the Swan Valley... but that's another story.

Jamie


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages. No petition from members of APS is going to change Federal minds on this. It's not going to happen just because you want one in your loungeroom.
> 
> The blanket ban on exotics works very well for the bureaucrats - if you are a private person and you are caught with an exotic reptile, you are breaking the law (with the exception of those granted permits under amnesty in NSW and Vic in the 90s). There are no grey areas to prove in court. Which is why the legalised import won't happen, it will create a mix of legal and illegal animals which will make prosecution much more complex. And don't kid yourself that allowing legal imports will reduce the
> 
> ...


An amnesty now that what I'm talking about.... There are legal ways of keeping exotics.......can these people apply to take on the exotics seized from illegal collections? Or are they restricted to the snakes that they had back then?


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## crikey (Jan 27, 2011)

what type of macaw is everyone talking about that cause a guy at a gym has a male and female macaw on desplay and he is planing on breeding them


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

All Macaws with the proper paperwork that are captive bred are legal assuming you have to cash to buy them..... Apparently there are 20 odd Hyacinth Macaws legally kept in captivity in Australia.


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## pythrulz (Jan 27, 2011)

Would be exspensive to import them but who wouldnt like exotic imports if the narrow minded government change there supertight import laws you can buy the through out america and europe why not here hopefully they will change one day


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## atothej09 (Jan 28, 2011)

Great post JoshuaAtherton!
Loved it.
Can't believe some people are so aggressive with their responses, geez, it's just a discussion topic...
Great points from everyone though, it's been a great learning topic. Thank you to all contributors.
I still love the look of the Ball Pythons, nothing will change my mind on that


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## Colin (Jan 28, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Amazing that this has gone to 7 pages.



its school holidays jamie


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 28, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> An amnesty now that what I'm talking about.... There are legal ways of keeping exotics.......can these people apply to take on the exotics seized from illegal collections? Or are they restricted to the snakes that they had back then?


 
The amnesty happened in 1997 (correct me if I'm wrong) and applied in NSW only. Those who declared exotics under that amnesty were permitted to keep them. 

There was another 'declare and destroy' amnesty in 2004 or 2005, this time Australia-wide, in which if you had exotics illegally, you could surrender then for destruction without incurring a penalty. Needless to say, it was a pointless exercise with a poor response from the community - no one would give up their animals to have them euthanased.

A 'declare and keep' amnesty is not likely to happen again, especially in the forseeable future. Animals seized at this time are automatically euthed if not required by institutions authorised to keep them.

Jamie

Ha! Thanks for that Col! Nice to see you back here...


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## Stevo2 (Jan 28, 2011)

Why on earth would there ever be a need, by the government, to offer a second 'declare and keep' amnesty - anything declared would have arrived (illegally) since the first amnesty and only enables and accepts smuggling..... stupid. Plain stupid. 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk


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## sarah_m (Jan 28, 2011)

Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that? 
OF COURSE NOT!
There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....

Maybe ball pythons won't cause an ecological disaster like so many other non native species have, but it's a big fat ????
You can take an educated guess ie. they will be fine in Melbourne cos it's too cold for them to survive in the wild, but what about in warmer/tropical areas? We just DON'T KNOW!

The fact is snakes escape. No one wants it to happen but we have all read the frequent "help, my snake escaped threads". Another fact is that there will always be irresponsible people who tire of their novelty pet and release them.

As it is Australia has an awful track record of exotic introductions (intentional and otherwise)and a shocking extinction rate. 
Is it really worth risking more of our already damaged ecosystems and struggeling species for the sake of something new and different, when we are already so lucky with what we can keep?
Yes, there are exotics here already. Yes, non native fish, birds, amphibians and mammals have already caused irreparable harm. But why compound it by adding more?


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## Snowman (Jan 28, 2011)

sarah_m said:


> Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that?
> OF COURSE NOT!
> There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....
> 
> ...



We aren't adding more.... We'd be simply bringing to the surface what is already here. Besides we cant even keep a diamond python or GTP in WA. Each state could easily regulate exotics based on risk of survival. 
I'm surprised by the number of people who think that we are talking about bringing them in. Surely everyone has been offered an exotic at some stage, that's how many are out there.


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## guzzo (Jan 28, 2011)

sarah_m said:


> Where does it stop though? Ok, say hypothetically they legalize ball pythons? Will everyone be happy with that?
> OF COURSE NOT!
> There will always be something else we want and if they make an exception for one species.....
> 
> ...



I agree Sarah. Snakes escape......I am pretty sure any of the big exotics would do pretty well if they got out in the Top End.....Bit like the Everglades in Florida.


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## battla (Jan 28, 2011)

pythrulz said:


> Ws if the narrow minded government change there supertight import laws you can buy the through out america and europe why not here y


 
Considering the issues escaped exotic reptiles are causing in America and the major damage invasive species are already causing here, perhaps the "narrow minded government" is learning from past mistakes and trying to ensure we don't stuff things up even more. Or maybe they are just on a power trip and really like bureaucracy, I don't know.


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## sarah_m (Jan 28, 2011)

Snowman said:


> We aren't adding more.... We'd be simply bringing to the surface what is already here. Besides we cant even keep a diamond python or GTP in WA. Each state could easily regulate exotics based on risk of survival.
> I'm surprised by the number of people who think that we are talking about bringing them in. Surely everyone has been offered an exotic at some stage, that's how many are out there.



I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed. 

I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
As far as what to do with the illegal ones already here? I don't have a perfect solution. 
While it's sad to see to see beautiful animals destroyed just because they don't belong here, there doesn't seem any other viable solution. 
As it is most zoo's and wildlife parks have plenty of corns, burms, boas and retics. Someone said something about allowing some private keepers a special licence to keep them but surely if some are allowed then the rest would cause a fuss and want the same "rights". This of course all seams very messy then, so is probably part of why there is a blanket rule.


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## Bax155 (Jan 28, 2011)

Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture  , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
Peace..
Bax...


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## hrafna (Jan 28, 2011)

sarah_m said:


> I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
> When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed.
> 
> I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
> ...


 

what if there was some sort of ruling that a private keeper must have x amount of years experience with snakes or someone needs to be a listed breeder for x amount of years before they can apply for these special permits to allow snakes that are already here that have been knocked back by a zoo? that way if someone wanted to have the right to claim an illegal import that is already here, they then know they need say 10 yrs experience with keeping snakes to apply for a permit!


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## Snowman (Jan 28, 2011)

sarah_m said:


> I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem. As has been mentioned, it would also allow for illegal imports to more easily be laundered in with the legal ones.
> When I say "adding to the problem" I was refering to other exotic species that people will want legalized and imported if ball pythons were to be allowed.
> 
> I know that there are corns turning up in people yards, which just proves that it is likely to happen with other species.
> ...



But what about all the exotics being bred that cant be moved on... How many stupid people just release the excess stock into the wild. The answers are the same both sides of the argument. That's why this debate gets no where. IE if they legalise it, people will release them and they will take over. If they don't legalise it there is no where to move stock so red eared sliders end up in the local creek...


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## guzzo (Jan 28, 2011)

Just out of intrest.....Other than corns have there been any documented cases of any of the larger exotic pythons/boas turning up in the wild??


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 28, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> Great post JoshuaAtherton!
> Loved it.
> Can't believe some people are so aggressive with their responses, geez, it's just a discussion topic...
> Great points from everyone though, it's been a great learning topic. Thank you to all contributors.
> I still love the look of the Ball Pythons, nothing will change my mind on that


 

(befor i post i would like to say i dont support the legalization of ALL exotics...some should just be left where they are,and there should be some hard study to what ever they bring in for the pet trade if it ever got legalized..which i highly doubt will happen..well in my life time anyway) 

Im guessing JoshuaAtherton's post got removed because he had a good point!......dude there is plenty of people that would agree with you..its just if they decide to voice their opinion or not..and most would not,AS IT IS ILLEGAL..i believe there are just as many people wanting exotics than people not wanting exotics......so there is no point posting about "bringing exotics into Australia",as it will just cause arguments between one another..For now,if you have a real passion for them,try volunteer or get work in a wildlife facility or a Zoo,where u can work with them and people who appreciate them,aswell as Native species...for the people that keep referring this to a "school holiday" and "school kid" topic...good...there should be no reason they cant question.. They are the new generation.. ..as i still question why some exotics are illegal..there are already exotic amphibians,fish and mammals here in the pet trade,and im sure science can find plenty of reptiles that would not pose a threat if brought into Australia legally as pets..Because,a Jackson Chameleon threatening our grasshopper population or any insect would sound ludacris..hahaha....or you know..a land tortoise threatening our succulents.. ..HA HA


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## Snowman (Jan 28, 2011)

sarah_m said:


> I realise they are already here, but if made legal and more easily obtainable then there is a far greater likelyhood that numbers will end up in the wild to cause a problem.
> .


 
Olive pythons, GTP's, stimi's etc are exotic to Victoria. Where are the wild ferral populations from having these snakes legalised? There are heaps of snakes being kept outside of their natural distribution. If the above statement was true then we should be having the same problem with reptiles that we keep that don't belong in our regions. Have any of Australia's snakes set up ferral populations from pet keepers? Surely an Aussie snake should be a much greater risk of being indtroduced? Or do you think it's okay to have the same risk that overseas exotics pose on our eco system as long as they are from the same continent?

All I'm saying is that based on the pythons we are keeping outside thier range, there have been no ferral populations spring up as a result of captive breeding to my knowledge. So why or how is your above statement valid?

Would illegal animals find their way into the wild quicker than leagal animals? I think if someone was feeling the heat of the law they would much sooner release a loved pet than kill it. By why release it if they didn't have to? Honestly who releases the stimi's they breed? Why should exotics on license be any different to a stimi?

Just for the record I'd have exotics if they were legal. But they aren't so I support the current laws.


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## Ned_fisch (Jan 28, 2011)

I have a bit of a question. Firstly, I'd hate to see any exotics come over here, as much as they could be pretty or cool to have, our Native Australian reptiles are still the best in the world. If exotics were legalised over here, i'd be scared that one day, in a fair few years, our reptile scene, breeding and keeping, would be much like the USA. Hybrids, like the Woma with the Ball pythons, and GTP's with Carpets and all the like, im not a fan of that at all, although, they can be pretty. I've heard, and have had people say to me that we're 20 years behind the U.S in the reptile scene, in theory, but it seems to me to be an accurate comment. That's just my opinion.

My question is that;
People can keep exotic birds, such as Macaws and the like; which can easily get many kilometres away if let out. Also exotic fish, which i know they are kept in tanks and all, but there is still ways they can get into the water ways. So, why is it that exotic reptiles are illegal, while other species are not?


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## Snowman (Jan 28, 2011)

Bird keeping and fish keeping are much older hobbies than reptile keeping. And they appeal to a larger group of people. On a whole there are a lot of exotic birds thriving in wild of australia and probably fish too. The government is actually cracking down on birds and fish though. We'll except for WA which ironic, since we have some of the most relaxed bird laws in the country and some of the most severe reptile keeping laws...
Unless you are trying to get a mawcaw in then you have some drama's  A lot of our native birds that are supposed to be on license here, seem to be sold license holder or not and the licensing isn't really enforced like it is with reptiles.


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## SamNabz (Jan 28, 2011)

Bax155 said:


> Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
> I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture  , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
> Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
> Peace..
> Bax...



Well said Bax155


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 28, 2011)

Bax155 said:


> Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
> I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture  , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
> Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
> Peace..
> Bax...


 

VERY well said...


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 28, 2011)

Bax...

Thats all people wanna do on here...
they just have a go at other people over nothing.
If you can't beat em' join em.

Nah, jokes.

The rest of us just try not to stoop so low and come down to their level.

read my signature.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 28, 2011)

Never forget that we are dealing with bureaucracies that take longer than the Queen Mary to stop or turn around... They, in turn, are dealing with and operating under legislation which is often decades beyond its use-by date: take the case of the licensing requirements for our own reptiles... in every state there is huge & basically pointless requirement for reptile keepers to list every animal they have, from birth to death, including where it came from, how old it is, etc, etc, etc... The 'Fauna' legislation under which they're kept is largely decades old, and predates the captive breeding revolution which has made the trade and hobby it is today. The cative-bred animals we have today are PETS, not FAUNA - they have no relationship, in any way, to wild reptiles, they can't be released... so why are they of any interest to National Parks at all? Because, by an outdated definition, put in place when most reptiles were wild-caught, that native animals are all FAUNA, and therefore subject to wildlife laws. But it has given the bureaucracies in all states an opportunity for growth - heaps more reptile keepers means more staff, more paper to shuffle, and more money for those departments.

It is the same for both state and federal departments - the feds control exotic legislation, and there are protocols and formulae they follow to determine whether to allow a foreign species into the country. It's almost a 'points system', and it's very unlikely that any species will pass muster for private keepers. I was speaking with the head of Taronga Reptile House last week, and her happened to mention that if Taronga wanted to replace their ageing Gila Monsters with animals from overseas, it would cost about $20,000 for paperwork and take around 2 years from the date of application., and they do their quarantine in-house.

For a species like Ball pythons to be considered in isolation... it won't happen.

Jamie

Interesting that birds have been mentioned, and their relative popularities - in NSW there are approximately 17,000 licenced reptile keepers, but only less than 5,000 birdkeepers. It's pretty much the same proportion for all states which have allowed reptile pets for a decade or more.

Another interesting thing, for snowman - when I was living in WA, I needed an import permit to bring Macaws into WA, but no export permits were needed when we left - weird! This means they have no idea how many you might have at any time - you could just say you sent them interstate if the numbers on your licence didn't match their records. They were also photographed at the airport and the photo sent to DEC for confirmation that it was a B&G or Scarlet Macaw, and not an African Grey (prohibited) or a Sparrow, and confirmation sent back to the airport before they would release the bird...

Jamie


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## firedream (Jan 28, 2011)

Well I can't say i'm a huge fan of ball pythons they have cool colours etc. but their look doesn't appeal to me but thats a personal choice. Here in WA we are still struggling to advance on our small list that we are allowed to keep so our battle is still with trying to keep native WA snakes. Having said that i will put my name down for a king cobra!


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## stephen (Jan 28, 2011)

leopard geckos,l luv em but if l cant keep em thick tails will just have 2 do.


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## Snowman (Jan 28, 2011)

Jamie,
Some interesting facts there. Do you believe for a second that the number of licensed bird keepers reflects the number of birdkeepers that should have a license for the species that they keep? Or that there are more reptile keepers than native bird keepers? (bird species on license)

At least nsw can tell you accurately how many licence holders there are! All our records are in filling cabinets and done manually. Way to keep up with the times WA


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## Dannyboi (Jan 28, 2011)

In SA all permited birds are on the reptile permit so it would be difficult to say. But there are 10 times as many bird selling places as reptile shops. Plus there are way more off permit Birds than there are off permit reptiles. http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/biodiversity/faunapermits/pdfs/fape_pdfs_list_exempt_animals.pdf thats the exempt natives then all non natives are exempt.


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## stephen (Jan 28, 2011)

l keep birds aswell both licenced & unlicened funny thing is that when my natives breed thay dont move & end up going 2 the local bird shop.As 4 the unlicened stuff moves like hot cakes theres just that many ppl that dont have a wildlife licence & l wont sell them a native unless thay do have 1.But there r a fair few natives that arn't on licence like princess parrots,& rainbow lorikeets that sell really well.


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## AllThingsReptile (Jan 28, 2011)

why are exotic birds allowed but not exotic reptiles, people are like "oh the stuff that was here before they banned exotics was allowed to stay, well i can tell you that corns and boas etc. were here before that, there are some stupid things going on here


back on topic, i really do not mind if we dont have exotics, i would love a chameleon, but thats probably the only thing, im happy with aussie herps, i just think some aussie herps that arent in the trade, should be....

i also agree that, if exotics were legalised, that the government would be able to control them better, a exotics license should be introduced (NOT FOR ZOOS) a license for the public, like normal reptile permits, but stricter, and a quite large fee

ALSO, i agree that most exotics ARE here, i have never been offered one, because i live in a town of 30,000 and we have 3 herp selling petshops, all are legit (one is a bit dodgy healthwise tho)
, to prove my point, 2 days ago i was talking to someone that said he was going to buy an iguana, now i loooked at him with raised eyebrows, and was like w....t...f... , we chatted for a bit, he new that it would need heat, uv etc, but he thought that if he put it in a certain sized enclosure, that it would only grow to the size of the enclosure, the species he wanted apparently grows 2m long......im thinking he is actually talking about a lace monitor or perentie, but he was pretty adamant about some african iguana something or other , now i just left it, because i was told he just gets random ideas in his head and never follows through, but he is one of those sorts of people, that i wouldnt doubt knows people who know people

........



Bax155 said:


> Why import? There is no need for it really when you can get them here already, meet 1 person that keeps them and they can introduce you to another 10 that keep them and each of them can introduce you to exotic keepers and so on and so on, will these people ever be caught? Highly unlikely unless dobed in, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do, would you dob in someone cause they keep WA Olives or Oenpelli's? I can't see how anyone with a heart could dob a fellow Aussie in for keeping a species illegally when we know full well what happens to these amazing animals, as for all these people that get on their high horses about those that do, pull your heads in, you don't see me thinking less of 'you' cause you keep Spotteds, Albinos or Hypos (I personally dislike all these snakes), if you want to keep an ugly snake or an illegal snake thats your choice, why do people try and make choices for others all the time? You don't even know these people, let alone know their motives and tastes.
> I remember the first time I met an exotic keeper I was so excited, when do you get to touch an exotic python? Go to a zoo and you can see them behind glass but you don't get to touch, feel or experience a close encounter unless of course you get your picture taken with one which n my opinion is usually rushed and involves others holding on to the snake to in a rather kooky looking pose for a picture  , as for Australian pythons a majority can easily be found in their natural habitats, providing you know spots to search and how to conduct searches. Maybe we should ban the keeping of natives and only be allowed to keep exotics? Hell no, then those poor saps who don't know how to herp or let alone know what the word means, they would never get the chance to experience our natives close up.
> Yes people will always have their opinions and feel the need to share them and please do, but when you start attacking people because they have a fascination for something your not into you just look the fool/idiot and are seriously the type of people I try not to associate with in life as drama tends to surround these type of characters, we all know quite well APS is full of these types of people I myself may have at 1 time went to far with an opinion, its the 1's that live and learn that last in this great hobby of ours those that don't change burn themselves out and sit by themselves and wonder why no-one comes over no more to visit.
> Peace..
> Bax...


 100% agreed


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## Defective (Jan 29, 2011)

i stand by the fact that IF they were to ever be legalized the one and only ball python i would ever want would be an albino just so i could call it Lambert. its the snake used in adam lambert's video clip for 'For Your Entertainment' and it's one of the main reasons i love snakes. i know my friend has a darwin albino x 100% het called adam! but i'm not going to move to the states just so i can own a albino ball python i'm not rich enough.!


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## jamesn48 (Jan 29, 2011)

why do people want all the common species like ball pythons and boas, (i kept both in the UK) i'd be more interested in the rare snakes and lizards, rather than morphs of really common species.


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## AllThingsReptile (Jan 29, 2011)

chameleons.....endless colour changing fun


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 29, 2011)

lizardboii said:


> chameleons.....endless colour changing fun


 
Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings..each species has its wonderful colour variation which change due to temperature,mood,health and communication...BUT YES!!..they are a fun and VERY interesting animal to keep,dont let their cute old person appearance fool you tho,hahah they can be rather moody little guys and dislike being handled


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## AllThingsReptile (Jan 29, 2011)

seanjbkorbett said:


> Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings..each species has its wonderful colour variation which change due to temperature,mood,health and communication...BUT YES!!..they are a fun and VERY interesting animal to keep,dont let their cute old person appearance fool you tho,hahah they can be rather moody little guys and dislike being handled


they are awesome.......leave it at that



seanjbkorbett said:


> Not really....they dont change colour to what you put them on or to suit their surroundings


 this video proves otherwise... 

[video=youtube;KMT1FLzEn9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMT1FLzEn9I[/video]


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## bump73 (Jan 29, 2011)

lizardboii said:


> this video proves otherwise...
> 
> YouTube - Super Chameleon


 
If it's on the internet it must be true:lol::lol:


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## seanjbkorbett (Jan 29, 2011)

lizardboii said:


> they are awesome.......leave it at that
> 
> 
> this video proves otherwise...
> ...


ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS man!!!.. ..OR WAS THAT A JOKE??..HAHAHAHA....I have kept and bred chameleons.. :S ..im not even going to bother to say n e thing about that "video".... hahaha..funny tho! 
Cheers
sean


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## longqi (Jan 30, 2011)

Balls and corns are plentiful in Sydney
Only about $200 each
But are they worth the risk???

Make it a $50,000 non appealable fine and they would soon disappear


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## Dannyboi (Jan 30, 2011)

I wouldn't risk it. Unless I was a foreign diplomat the I would be immune to all laws ahahahahahh. Now um not worth the effort.


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## AllThingsReptile (Jan 30, 2011)

seanjbkorbett said:


> ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS man!!!.. ..OR WAS THAT A JOKE??..HAHAHAHA....I have kept and bred chameleons.. :S ..im not even going to bother to say n e thing about that "video".... hahaha..funny tho!
> Cheers
> sean


 dude....joke....hence the


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## Camo (Jan 30, 2011)

One word. DREAMSICLE *drools*

Have a look at some bred by Ralph Davis and tell me they are not hot :lol:


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## RedEyeGirl (Jan 30, 2011)

It would be great to have them here (even though they are already here) 
But serioulsy, is it worth the risk? Beautiful yes, but not worth it IMO.


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## megrim (Jan 30, 2011)

My dad remembers mates of his breeding and selling corn snakes in the late 70's. Some of these exotics have been captive bred for longer than our natives!.

I'm with a lot of people here - just legalise the damn things so we can at least monitor who's bringing what in and properly quarantine them. Keeping a Ball or Corn in Australia is no different from keeping a Olive in Victoria, or a Diamond in the N.T.

Once it's out of it's natural range it's already an 'exotic'.


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## RELLIK81 (Jan 30, 2011)

I would love to have a ball python.... Swell as other exotics but they won't be legalized so I know I'll never get one... Ohh well... We have just as good if not better species here


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (Jan 31, 2011)

*Dont let them in *


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## Waterrat (Jan 31, 2011)

My god! 12 pages of what I would if I could.


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