# Green tree python handling.



## Ned_fisch (Apr 26, 2009)

I have a question about the handling of Gtp's. Now most of us know that Green tree pythons require a pretty high humidity level. 
I handle my jungles quite a lot, I let them roam around on the bed checking out everything of a night time as I watch tv. Some time in the next few years, I would love to get a gtp, I am just curious, as I have never heard anything about this.

Are you able to have your Green tree python out handling and roaming for a long period of time? 
Seeing that they need a high humidity level and in Brisbane it isn't exactly close to what it is at there origin.
And I guess the answer differ's to other parts of the country..


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## pythons73 (Apr 26, 2009)

My opinion i wouldnt handle at all,Greens are alot different to any other python in regards to handling.Most owners will just pull the snake out with the stick,or whatever its on.They can get a kinked spine,it defiantly isnt worth the trouble it can cause....


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## No-two (Apr 26, 2009)

People generally don't handle them, I played around with a mates, he doesn't handle them but once they're past the really fragile stage they're generally fine to handle from what I hear.


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## Hooglabah (Apr 26, 2009)

whats the really fragile stage as hatchos cuz i dont think id want a snake i couldnt handle (except elapids)


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## peterjohnson64 (Apr 26, 2009)

Greg Maxwell's first Chondro bible "the Complete Chondro" was quite stroing in saying that a chondro is a look but don't touch snake. In his updated "the More Complete Chondro" he seems to have done a complete backflip and now says there is nothing wrong with handling them. Few people in Aus have bought chondros merely as a pet snake. After all, they are a bit expensive. This means that virtually everyone that owns them has them for breeding purpsoes and probably also has a lot of other reptiles and therefore has no interste in getting their snakes out for a "cuddle" or whatever.

Certainly you would do it with a young one to about a year old (or 70cm long) but then do what you like. 

If you are worried about humidity, get yourself a hydrometer and only get him out when the humidity is at least 50% but they can certainly handle short periods of lower humidity.

Oh, one other thing, they have longer teeth than your other snakes do.


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## euphorion (Apr 26, 2009)

peterjohnson64 said:


> Oh, one other thing, they have longer teeth than your other snakes do.



can't wait to find out for myself :S lol


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## Hooglabah (Apr 26, 2009)

im only interested in small time breeding most of my snakes are pets so all get handled regular like i suppose for a gtp i would be content haveing em as a display snake. i heard they dont move much aswell is this true.


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## solar 17 (Apr 26, 2009)

*Handling gtp's*

well i am not sure where all this imformation about not handling gtps come from but what a lot of well rubbish we handle ours [several] all the time and they are fine and they range in age from a few weeks to a few years old, i have posted pics on this site several times of them climbing over chairs etc.and i notice no one on this thread is a gtp owner...and when you think about it....what about in the wild they are just like any other snake except in captivity they require a fine spray twice a day but apart from that they are like any other reptile [arborial]....cheers solar 17 [baden]


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 26, 2009)

I'd say that the whole look but don't touch aspect of keeping green pythons is due to their high cost. I'd say once they become a more common python in beginners tanks the whole handling issue will be flushed down the drain. 

I mean if you buy a $500 commodore, your going to rough it up more (Generally - not always) then you would a $200 000 lambogeini (Spelling?). I suppose its not the best comparison as no snake should be roughed up but you get the point.


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## Retic (Apr 26, 2009)

I totally agree Baden, some of the stuff you hear relating to Greens is funny at best and scary at worst. Handle them like and as often as you would handle any snake, they aren't made of glass.


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

I handle mine almost every day, its approx 5 months old. I do treat it carefully, as I do all my snakes, but I cant see the problem. All this "dont handle" crap is just that, crap. It comes down to, treat it carefully and dont stress it. Nothing that wouldnt be expected of any other snake.


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## cement (Apr 26, 2009)

Oh, one other thing, they have longer teeth than your other snakes do.[/QUOTE]

But not quite as long as my roughies:lol:


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## bredli84 (Apr 26, 2009)

Are young greens supposedly fragile in a physical sense or is it more of a stress issue?
I would doubt that they are much more physically fragile than most other pythons as they still have to be able to grapple with prey etc. An attack on, and the constriction of a prey item would put much more physical stress on a wild snake than normal "handling" ever would.


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## pythons73 (Apr 26, 2009)

cement said:


> Oh, one other thing, they have longer teeth than your other snakes do.


 
But not quite as long as my roughies:lol:[/QUOTE]
So the roughies would have the longest teeth,followed by the Green.


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## pythons73 (Apr 26, 2009)

Some1 i spoke to yesty said that Greens shouldnt be handled at a young age,it can cause severe spinal damage,it is worth the risk,just to handle it...


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

pythons73 said:


> Some1 i spoke to yesty said that Greens shouldnt be handled at a young age,it can cause severe spinal damage,it is worth the risk,just to handle it...


 
Lots of heresay by people who dont actually own them. Take it from the few people on this thread who actually own them. Treat them as carefully as you should any baby python and I doubt you will have a single problem. They're expensive, and care should be taken handling (like every other baby snake you own!), careful handling isnt going to hurt/harm or damage the snake. <---- full stop.


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## pythons73 (Apr 26, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> Lots of heresay by people who dont actually own them. Take it from the few people on this thread who actually own them.
> Well he has been breeding them for years,so im pretty certain he knows his stuff...


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

> Well he has been breeding them for years,so im pretty certain he knows his stuff...


 
oh well, good luck with stareing at ur next green python all day long.


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## matt86 (Apr 26, 2009)

It's like everything else in the hobby, or life in general... Everyone has a different approach to things... Some people have dogs and won't take them to a dog park for fear of disease or fighting... It doesn't mean that people who take their dogs to a dog park are irresponsible or uncaring owners, just different in their approach 

There are obviously a number of GTP owners who have contributed to this thread, and believe that handling is not an issue. Personally, I would have to agree with them. I don't own them, but common sense tells me that they have the same basic anatomy as any other python, and handling shouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps the owners who advise you not to handle are just taking some extra precautions. It doesn't make them right or wrong, just different in their approach. I think if you want to handle your GTP, go for it. If you're happy not to, good for you!


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## Serpentor (Apr 26, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> I handle mine almost every day, its approx 5 months old. I do treat it carefully, as I do all my snakes, but I cant see the problem. All this "dont handle" crap is just that, crap. It comes down to, treat it carefully and dont stress it. Nothing that wouldnt be expected of any other snake.


While I do intend to handle mine once they reach a year or so, I might point out Greg Maxwell's position on the matter by quoting from his book

"Neonate chondros are normally quite snappy, and even if they are not, it is a good practice to avoid handling them prior to a year of age, due to the fragility of the spine"

In the end it's your snake, and I'm sure you're very careful with it, but I thought I'd just throw that one out there.

edit: quote is from page number 127 of "The More Complete Chondro"


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> While I do intend to handle mine once they reach a year or so, I might point out Greg Maxwell's position on the matter by quoting from his book


 
While Greg Maxwell is a great guide, he isnt God mate.


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## Serpentor (Apr 26, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> While Greg Maxwell is a great guide, he isnt God mate.


No need to get defensive, I was just making sure you knew his stance on the position. I don't see where I put him on a deity pedestal, but he has been doing it for around 30 years, and has drawn from other experienced keeper's experiences as well as his own. So while not god, no, his opinion should be at least noted, which is all I asked of you


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> No need to get defensive, I was just making sure you knew his stance on the position. I don't see where I put him on a deity pedestal, but he has been doing it for around 30 years, and has drawn from other experienced keeper's experiences as well as his own. So while not god, no, his opinion should be at least noted, which is all I asked of you


 

Not being defensive mate, I just disagree with idea of not handling them due to being fragile and if you want to use his advice as the reason, well, I'm going to say otherwise


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

To follow up on my above post, I have to ask, does anyone actually know of a responsible GTP owner who has owned other snakes who has actually, genuinely, damaged their GTP due to normal, careful, handling? If so, speak up! 

Because so far, all we seem to have is heresay and no actual examples.


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## Serpentor (Apr 26, 2009)

As I said before, I'm sure you're careful, and it's your snake after all.

In regards to hearing about people damaging their GTPs, do you honestly believe someone who has broken their multi-thousand dollar animal's spine due to doing something that is advised against in one of the most prominent books out there will tell a forum about it? Let alone anyone?


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## Mayhem (Apr 26, 2009)

Well, until one does, then I think people need to understand that GTP's, while definately worth that little bit of extra care, are not going to fall apart or break on somone who takes care in their handleing.


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## Serpentor (Apr 26, 2009)

I'd err on the side of caution. I'd bet on the statement being based on the early chondro keeping days when they didn't know any better, and also necropsies of dead neonates, and subsequent observation of spine fragility.


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## euphorion (Apr 26, 2009)

lolling


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## solar 17 (Apr 26, 2009)

*Fragile gtp's*

i can only imagine in some sub tropic / tropical low hanging branch a young chondro latching onto its intended meal stuggling to the end hanging on grimly by its prehensile tail .....this is not the scene of one of natures critters being so fragile they couldn't be handled by a caring herper in fear of damaging its spine....sure take every precaution but gee whiz we handle ours all the time and no probs in fact being fed a pinkie mouse every [6] days our hatchies are now just on [6] months of age and have put on 250-300 % of their birth weight and they climb and carry on like my bredli hatchies so not bad for a fragile snake that supposedly shouldn't be handled....i think "serpentor"got it dead right in post #27 of this thread we have come a long way into understanding this species and in the process debunked some of the earlier myths....cheers solar 17 [baden]


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## peterjohnson64 (Apr 27, 2009)

Well it has been done. I have an adult male with a fully kinked tail that is unable to mate because of it. We are not sure as to what caused this but it was most likely probing or handling as a youngster.

And why does everyone on this forum always hail back to nature and say that they survive in nature so they should be able to handle the same thing in captivity. Well that is just so true if you want to have the same chances of the animal surviving in captivity as it does in nature - like about half of one percent. If you want to improve the chances of the animal surviving in captivity you need to give it different conditions.

I made some comments on the Name Tags thread and I merely stick by them.


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## Mayhem (Apr 27, 2009)

peterjohnson64 said:


> Well it has been done. I have an adult male with a fully kinked tail that is unable to mate because of it. We are not sure as to what caused this but it was most likely probing or handling as a youngster.
> 
> And why does everyone on this forum always hail back to nature and say that they survive in nature so they should be able to handle the same thing in captivity. Well that is just so true if you want to have the same chances of the animal surviving in captivity as it does in nature - like about half of one percent. If you want to improve the chances of the animal surviving in captivity you need to give it different conditions.
> 
> I made some comments on the Name Tags thread and I merely stick by them.


 
Probing young GTP's is somthing I and most of us would agree is going to be the cause of damage.


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## fidzy (Apr 27, 2009)

i agree with mayhem here, these are snakes who have been alive for thousands of years, even though i dont handle mine much i fail to see how a predator like a snake can be so fragile that you cant let it slither across your hand.


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## Serpentor (Apr 27, 2009)

peterjohnson64 said:


> And why does everyone on this forum always hail back to nature and say that they survive in nature so they should be able to handle the same thing in captivity. Well that is just so true if you want to have the same chances of the animal surviving in captivity as it does in nature - like about half of one percent. If you want to improve the chances of the animal surviving in captivity you need to give it different conditions.



Just in case anybody missed it. 

Please don't use the 'in the wild argument'. It simply isn't valid for responsible keepers. I don't see any of you owning up to live feeding.


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## melgalea (Apr 27, 2009)

mcloughlin2 said:


> I mean if you buy a $500 commodore, your going to rough it up more (Generally - not always) then you would a $200 000 lambogeini (Spelling?). I suppose its not the best comparison as no snake should be roughed up but you get the point.



please tell me were u can get a $200,000 Lamborghini, i'm dying to know.......


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## Nagraj (Apr 27, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> Please don't use the 'in the wild argument'. It simply isn't valid for responsible keepers. I don't see any of you owning up to live feeding.




Allowing a snake to wander over your hands and not feeding live prey are two completely different issues and neither should be used to justify or condemn the other. Thats what's called a straw man argument.


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## Serpentor (Apr 27, 2009)

Nagraj said:


> Allowing a snake to wander over your hands and not feeding live prey are two completely different issues and neither should be used to justify or condemn the other. Thats what's called a straw man argument.



It may well be, but I'm just trying to nip it in the bud before the slippery slope.

Such a small proportion of snakes survive, probably mostly due to food availability, willingness to feed, and the fact that live food can turn round and bite too....but hanging by the tail and holding a food item (which probably wouldn't be too big for it, because it would most likely avoid larger items) compared to the amount of force that can be accidentally delivered by human hands, especially if the snake decides to flip out, are two different things also.


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## GTsteve (Apr 27, 2009)

Why are they so fragile? Help a novice out here. Are the "finer boned" or something to support the lighter weight needed considering their arboreal nature?

I find it surprising that any predator could be so fragile, especially one that is capable of swallowing items larger than their head!


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## Serpentor (Apr 27, 2009)

GTsteve said:


> Why are they so fragile? Help a novice out here. Are the "finer boned" or something to support the lighter weight needed considering their arboreal nature?
> 
> I find it surprising that any predator could be so fragile, especially one that is capable of swallowing items larger than their head!


They are quite small for Morelia, but perhaps what you've suggested is true also. 

Problem with what you're saying about large food items is that it expects that sort of stress on its skeletal system, and applies it slowly, by swallowing slowly, and the way it contracts its muscles in a situation like that where it's under control, as opposed to flipping out and having a keeper jump, or get startled and move it too quickly.


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## patonthego (Apr 27, 2009)

*"fragile"*



GTsteve said:


> Why are they so fragile? Help a novice out here. Are the "finer boned" or something to support the lighter weight needed considering their arboreal nature?
> 
> I find it surprising that any predator could be so fragile, especially one that is capable of swallowing items larger than their head!


 
I'm with you GT steve, fed up hearing about the fragility of the gtp's a snake is a snake surely. Who can squash or harm a snake simply by holding it?? I am very gentle with mine and don;t sqeeze them in fact mhy coastal squeezes me quite often.


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## GTsteve (Apr 27, 2009)

Thanks Serpentor, what you've said makes sense.


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## Serpentor (Apr 27, 2009)

patonthego said:


> I'm with you GT steve, fed up hearing about the fragility of the gtp's a snake is a snake surely. Who can squash or harm a snake simply by holding it?? I am very gentle with mine and don;t sqeeze them in fact mhy coastal squeezes me quite often.


I'm confused, do you own one, or are you equating holding a coastal to holding a gtp?


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## solar 17 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Baby greens*

*i personally don't believe they are that fragile within reason, we handle ours [hatchies through to adults]....we don't yank them off a perch we gently and i mean gently uncoil them and then handle them exactly the same as our bredli's we have always done this and i believe and so do several witnesses with no ill affects...the only aspect i am big on is we don't even think about sexing [probing] them until [14] months of age....cheers solar 17 [baden].....*ps ...i have kept this species for a considerable period of time and this is only my opinion..


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## Serpentor (Apr 27, 2009)

14 months for probing sounds good to me. 12 months is what I've read as recommended, but I know I'd want to wait a couple more months. 

I'm personally not against handling the little buggers to get them to change perches, or something like that, especially when it's an experienced keeper doing it. I'm just against the idea of it being generally ok to do it, because more people have access to them these days, such as myself, and some of them may not be experienced enough to say, not flinch when it bites, or not squeeze too hard if it freaks out and tries to dive for the floor etc etc.

I think that the general information floating around this site about the matter needs to be to err on the side of caution, if you do it at all, outside of changing perches around etc. 

At the end of the day, people are going to do what they think is correct with their snake, but the last thing we need is newbies coming on here, buying a GTP, and not finding material that warns them of their fragility.


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 27, 2009)

zoocam said:


> please tell me were u can get a $200,000 Lamborghini, i'm dying to know.......


 
Are you telling me your going to take the word of someone who can't even spell the name seriously? :lol: I don't know cars at all but was trying to make my point :lol:


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