# Freshies in NSW



## chondrogreen (Dec 20, 2009)

So how many people have been offered freshwater crocs in NSW recently?
I have been confronted by 3 different sources in just the last week. Apparently some netters got a massive catch of hatchlings and bought them back to NSW to trade on the black market.


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## benson (Dec 20, 2009)

Haha, funny you mentiom that.
I have heard of 2 people getting one in the last week. Give it a year or so, and these crocks will be too big. And I can see everyone just letting them go. Not easy to advertise, and just sell them, when they grow up a little.
Sad, but true.


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## chondrogreen (Dec 20, 2009)

I spoke to a few people over the last week that purchased some and 3 people who were actually selling them.
And according to some of those that I spoke with they will be released in Nepean river at Penrith or Hawksbury river at Windsor if they do get too big (more like when they get too big as it is inevitable). And when I had a dig at them about that they figured the low temps in winter would kill them (I don't know if this is true or not but I assume they'd survive). Also 2 of those I spoke with were supposedly heading back to try and collect another lot in January.

Im in 2 minds about it to be honest.
Happy to see them here but scared of the long term effects. Especially in my local waterways where myself and kids frequent.


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## bfg23 (Dec 20, 2009)

They arent the ones on herptrader are they?

There is a bulk lot there for sale, but from QLD.


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## chondrogreen (Dec 20, 2009)

Nah they are deffinately in NSW.
I have seen the animals in the flesh and spoke with both buyers and sellers over the last 8 or 9 days.


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## bfg23 (Dec 20, 2009)

Are you friends with the people or are they people you can report?
obviously you know whats going on is wrong and highly illegal.


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## bk201 (Dec 21, 2009)

i have also heard of someone recently paying like 300-400ea forthem


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## chondrogreen (Feb 19, 2010)

Well only 2 months later and several crocs have been pulled out of a creek run off at Kurrajong Ave St Marys.I was there when the police arrived to capture them. I also know that there is still atleast one croc left in there as I work across the road and have had several different people come in claiming to of seen it and all mentioned it being the same size (forearm length). I have also been informed that a couple have been caught at Nepean river but atm this is just hearsay untill I get confirmation.

PS, I do not know the collectors at all.
I had spoke to them prior as indicated above, but they approached me knowing I was into Reptiles (I have no idea who they are though but I wish did now)


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## chondrogreen (Feb 20, 2010)

Heres a pic of a recent capture (today) from St Marys.
I will be putting the word out that I want some and hopefully these people will approach me again so I can report them.


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## wranga (Feb 20, 2010)

interesting


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## Bez84 (Feb 20, 2010)

yeah i saw that sydney bloke who sells corns on petlink advertising a freshy on petlink a week or so ago, sold pretty fast.


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## cement (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah wasn't one found in a front yard somewhere recenlty by a relocator?


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 20, 2010)

I`ve also been offered several freshies over the last 2 months from several different people, I also work in St Marys so they are probably the same people.


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## lovemypiggy (Feb 20, 2010)

you seem to know a fair bit about them chondrogreen !!!!


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## chondrogreen (Feb 20, 2010)

lovemypiggy said:


> you seem to know a fair bit about them chondrogreen !!!!


 
Meaning what exactly?


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## lovemypiggy (Feb 20, 2010)

just saying that you know a fair bit about them...


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## chondrogreen (Feb 20, 2010)

Well it was my colleague that reported the 1st lot caught by police and I spent the last 3 days trying to catch this bugger that evaded them. I was also approached 2 months ago to buy some and to be honest thought it was BS untill one of the sellers returned with some hatchies to show me he was serious. As far as my knowledge goes it has already been stated in this thread and to DECC.


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## bluey66 (Feb 20, 2010)

chondrogreen said:


> Meaning what exactly?


 
chondrogreen, l agree also that you seem to know a fair bit about these people who are selling fresh-water Crocodiles and dumping them in the wild ilegally.
You should contact the wildlife authories ASAP to stop them from taking the freshy from the wild and selling them inter-state without a permit. if you really cared about these young fresh-water Crocodile's, you just wouldn't sit there and do nothing about it, so l get this feeling that you could be part of this group selling these fresh water Crocodile's and dumping them in the wild ilegally.

lf l ever find out who is doing this l will be straight on the phone to the wildlife authories to report them, and hopefully they will be stopped from doing what their doing, and it will protect the wild population of fresh water Crocodile's, from those that are so greedy for money.


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## chondrogreen (Feb 20, 2010)

As I have already said I do not know who they are & I have reported what I do know.
They came into the shop I work in asking for me by name (I have been keeping Reptiles for over 25 years and other keepers in the area knows this). They asked if I was interested in buying any, of course thinking they were full of BS I asked questions like: where they from, how many, how much etc. I also asked what are they going to do with them when they get too big and 1 guys response was dump them in Nepean or the Hawksbury. I had a shot at him and he said they will die over winter anyway don't worry. Thought nothing of it untill 1 of them returned the next day and asked me to come out and have a look at some hatchies (Thats when I knew it wasn't BS and reported it when he left)

2 months later (last week) customers came in the shop saying they seen crocs across the road. I was not working this day but the owner rang the police. They came out and collected several. 3 days ago we got more customers saying they seen one about arm length etc.

Thats as far as my knowledge goes and I have no problem speaking again with DECC or having my collection inspected. And I would appreciate not being accused of illegal activity. If I was I deffinately wouldn't be discussing it here with the member quality of APS.


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## lovemypiggy (Feb 20, 2010)

no need to get your knickers in a knot, I'm not accusing you of anything.:cry:


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## bluey66 (Feb 21, 2010)

l'm not accusing you but you seem to know alot of whats going on here and don't even think about buying any illegal Reptile's from anyone who does not have a valid licence or permit to keep in captivity or take from the wild, cause if you or anyone you know does you a supporting their business, and only will entice them to take more Reptile's from the wild illegaly without a valid licence or permit.

lf l hear of anyone taking from the wild or selling or dumping in the wild any native or exotic Reptile's illegaly, l will be straight on the phone to the appropriate authorities, whether its police-customs or wildlife officers to report them in what ever state their in.

l have reported a few since early 1995 and will continue to do it, cause l care about the Reptile's and don't think they should have their life ruin or distroyed, all because of those that are after some extra pocket money for high life luxury goods or drugs so take this seriously.


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## wranga (Feb 21, 2010)

wow cant believe how some people go off without knowing the first thing about what has gone on with these freshies. chondrogreen was letting the rest of the responsible keepers on aps know whats been going on. theses been many peple from this site offered freshies from unknown people over the last few months. do you really thing if chondrogreen was involved in this illegal activity that he would be telling the exercuters of aps whats going on? im sure you will find that chondrogreen along with all responsible keepers on aps has and will continue to report what they know to the authorities. would be nice if for once people thanked someone for letting them know whats going on instead of getting on their soap box and having a rant about someone they know nothing about. cheers


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## Fireflyshuffle (Feb 21, 2010)

Ok maybe you got a bit protective there. Which is fine, But you need to understand you made the thread and gave lots of info, so naturally ppl no you have some info, and was basically saying report it, But obviously someone else reported it before you bothered too. So at the end of the day, someone at least did the right thing and reported it. Black market is a terrible trade and any signs of it should be reported straight away


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 21, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> l'm not accusing you


 Sounded like accusing to me :lol:

Does that mean that if i`ve been approached and also seen them, i must be part of this national smuggling conspiracy?? :lol:


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## chondrogreen (Feb 21, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> so l get this feeling that you could be part of this group selling these fresh water Crocodile's and dumping them in the wild ilegally.


 


bluey66 said:


> l'm not accusing you but you seem to know alot of whats going on here
> 
> l have reported a few since early 1995 and will continue to do it, cause l care about the Reptile's and don't think they should have their life ruin or distroyed, all because of those that are after some extra pocket money for high life luxury goods or drugs so take this seriously.


 
Sounded like an accusation to me.
And it is great that you have reported all these bad people, but licencing has only been around since 1996


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## chondrogreen (Feb 21, 2010)

shnakey said:


> But obviously someone else reported it before you bothered too.


 
Re-read my posts. I have reported what I know and did so the day I seen one in the flesh and realised it was not a joke. I didn't report the dumped ones as I was not at work & did not know about them untill my boss messaged me telling me what was going on. I made it down there in time to watch the police catching some.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Feb 21, 2010)

Good on ya chondro for collecting what information you could to report these people, and to be honest what were a heap of fresh water crocs doin in nsw in the wild..?????

Makes me sick that people can be so irresponsible on doing such thing, freshies are harmless unless provoked, I know Im from darwin and used to do the adopt a croc in the nt.

Again good on ya chondro for helping out poor defenceless animals


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## bluey66 (Feb 21, 2010)

Geck82 said:


> Sounded like accusing to me :lol:
> 
> Does that mean that if i`ve been approached and also seen them, i must be part of this national smuggling conspiracy?? :lol:


 
No it does not mean you are part of a national smuggling conspiracy if you have been approached, unless you are caught dealing with protected wildlife without a valid licence or permit.



chondrogreen said:


> Sounded like an accusation to me.
> And it is great that you have reported all these bad people, but licencing has only been around since 1996


 
The licencing may have only been around since 1996 in NSW, but its been around since 1980 here in Victoria and l got my very first private licence in 1982.

Yes its good that l reported those bad people when l did and can you prove to me that it sounded like a accusation chrondro or not at all.


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## chondrogreen (Feb 21, 2010)

Sorry I thought you were also in NSW.
Anyway Im not here to argue or point out your defamatory posts.
I have already quoted you above where you said _"so l get this feeling that you could be part of this group selling these fresh water Crocodile's and dumping them in the wild ilegally"_

So you feel that I am a culprit behind this illegal activity huh...well THAT IS AN ACCUSATION!

Now if you don't mind I created this thread in the hope that others who may know more then myself may come forward or atleast contact authorities. It was not created for a back and forth argument between yourself and I. And as alot of NSW Herp keepers have been approached over the last few months re: crocs & APS is the most active Reptile forum in Aus I knew here would be the best place to share what I know and have heard etc


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## Daryl_H (Feb 21, 2010)

one idea put up a wanted add online and wait for them to offer on the fake add done!!!! report them job done


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## python119 (Feb 21, 2010)

Can you get a license for a croc in nsw. Would like to get one but only the right way


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## markars (Feb 21, 2010)

how come these crocs in a creek did not make the papers? the last croc they pulled was a hatchling freshy from a creek near manly and that made every newspaper and cross station tv coverage. Pulling 3 from a creek would surely make the local rag at least? Has anyone got a copy or seen one?

Freshy and salties have been sold in NSW for donkeys years and it is suprisingly not really been the herpers who have been selling or buying them, It has been mostly the aquarium peoples. All of the captives i have heard of (utill the last few years) have mostly been by people who post on aquarium keepers sites or are in aquarium clubs.
There was an aquarium in 1992 in southern sydney who had over 50 salties in his shop and was selling them like hot cakes, I only found them because i was buying feeder fish from him and he asked if it was fro a croc, when i said no- he offered me one! at this time all reptiles were illegal so a croc didn;t really raise an eyebrow as it was just as illegal as every thing else.

I think the croc sales have become more visible as people now have the bals to advertise on the net as they do exotics.

As for letting them go in nsw water ways and having them survive- No way! the crocs do not naturally occur here for a reason- they cannot survive. If they could they would have swum here by them selves- But if global warming continues- give it 50 odd years who knows


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## bluey66 (Feb 21, 2010)

chondrogreen said:


> Sorry I thought you were also in NSW.
> Anyway Im not here to argue or point out your defamatory posts.
> I have already quoted you above where you said _"so l get this feeling that you could be part of this group selling these fresh water Crocodile's and dumping them in the wild ilegally"_
> 
> ...


 
chrondro, if this is true what your saying is happenning in your state NSW, with people selling fresh water Crocodile's illegaly for sale and dumping them in lakes or rivers when they get to big to handle or look after, why don't you reported it to the media such has newspapers-TV stations-radio, l have not once read or heard anything about what your saying is happening, and don't you agree the media would be the first place to go to and let them know, so others including the authorities would hear whats going on here or are you to scared or shy to approach the media, who would have ever thought a Reptile Forum would be the first and only place to alert others what happening out in the communitty with fresh water Crocodile's.

l am not new to the Reptile communitty and do know alot of people who have been keeping and breeding Reptile's for more than 20 years, and l still am learning just as you and others are and l will never ever know or learn every single thing about Reptile's, no matter how long l keep them for.

So what l am trying to say is l'm not one of those who gets on Reptile Forums making out he or she knows every dam thing about Reptile's, l only know what l know and need to know at the time depending on what l'm keeping and looking after in my collection, which l will not disclosed on this Reptile Forum at all.


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## Waterrat (Feb 21, 2010)

There are two problems with this:

Wild caught crocs, freshies or salties don't do well in captivity. They stress easily, refuse food, etc., unless kept in very much off limits area.

The ones released into the rivers and creeks will not survive the winter. They are tropical species (unlike alligators) and they will not make it.

It's a real shame that these idiots who brought them down from the north didn't know that.


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## Notorious_Guf (Feb 21, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> There are two problems with this:
> 
> Wild caught crocs, freshies or salties don't do well in captivity. They stress easily, refuse food, etc., unless kept in very much off limits area.
> 
> ...



Going off what Chondro was saying, it appears they do know that they won't survive winters, hence why they are selling them and telling people to dump them when they are too large, easy way to get rid of them.


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 21, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> It's a real shame that these idiots who brought them down from the north didn't know that.


 The problem is that they probably do know but don`t care, its all about the cash for them


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## D3pro (Feb 21, 2010)

gees... this is really bad, What kind of IDIOT would keep an animal that will get too big for them to handle? It's like the people in the US that buy the Reticulated Pythons and let them go one their too big... 

Making the choice to keep an animal is not temporary, you have to face the consequences of the animal you have kept and be responsible about it. This isn't just for crocks ether, anyone who buys any animal has to be responsible. 

To keep a crock in QLD you must have a dem. lic. Is it the same down there?


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 21, 2010)

D3pro said:


> gees... this is really bad, What kind of IDIOT would keep an animal that will get too big for them to handle? It's like the people in the US that buy the Reticulated Pythons and let them go one their too big...
> 
> Making the choice to keep an animal is not temporary, you have to face the consequences of the animal you have kept and be responsible about it. This isn't just for crocks ether, anyone who buys any animal has to be responsible.
> 
> To keep a crock in QLD you must have a dem. lic. Is it the same down there?


Yes in NSW you need a demo license


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## markars (Feb 21, 2010)

it seems that if the auhorities really cared thay would have a look at petlink There is a dude on there selling them as late as last week! 

I f I was advertising herion or eccies or other drus or guns blatently on an internet site and gave a mobile phone number and used an email address how long do you think i would last before i was sitting in a cell?

It isn't a huge problem worring about people dumping them in the rivers, Unfortunatly most crocs would fail to live long enough to grow to a size that would be considered too big! as waterrat outlined above, wc crocs generally only last a few months unless being kept in the hands of a very dedicated/ experienced keeper.



> They are tropical species (unlike alligators) and they will not make it.


 
Worringly, i have heard of a few of these going around at the moment as well.


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## kippa (Feb 28, 2010)

y arnt there like government officials fishing for these sort of people and set meets and so on so forth as by taking out internet as a form of advertisement( or making it heaps harder) would hinder there sales and then they wouldnt need as many reducing the amount be taking.


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