# Water pump for fake background



## squidlinc (Nov 15, 2013)

Wondering if anyone could help me out. I want to put a waterfall type constructing in my next project. I want the pump to be external though, sort of like a cheap mini canister filter with a intake pipe and a output pipe. It needs to be fairly small as it will be behind a hollowed out bit of the background. Does anyone know of a product that could do this? Prices and where to buy would be handy 

Thank you 


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## macca05 (Nov 16, 2013)

There is a really small pump you can buy from bunnings. Just look in the pump section. It is less than 50mm x 50mm and was about 12 bucks. I have two that i was using in hydroponics and they worked great. They need to be submersed though


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## squidlinc (Nov 16, 2013)

Hmm if love to has it external so you couldn't see it, but maybe if it was that small I could just hide it under a overhang ... Maybe put led lights in front of it and mesh off the whole area so snakey doesn't investigate haha 

I want this to be a waterfall type construction, would that pump be able to pump much water up? Might need to get one and test 

An external one would just be easier to set up and seal off so that it could be cleaned and changed in the future. But maybe it would have to be primed like canister filters? That would be difficult.. 

Anyway thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it. 


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## ronhalling (Nov 16, 2013)

The biggest problem you are going to face with the setup you want is going to be matching the outflow with the inflow, if you get it wrong you will end up with 1 of them running out of water, if this happens on the outflow side all the water from the inflow side will end up in the enclosure possably flooding the enclosure, your best bet is a small submersable pump, self contained in the enclosure possably hidden under some rocks with the flow hose and power cord run up behind the water feature itself, the other danger you face is somehow making sure the top and front of the waterfall can't be accessed by your animal, plenty of well meaning keepers have set up a waterfall feature only to have their animal sit on top of or in front of the waterfall redirecting the water into the enclosure, it makes a big mess for sure.  ..................................Ron


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## squidlinc (Nov 16, 2013)

I'm a little confused by what you mean about the different flows  I understand that with a regular sized canister filter if the intake is too high and the output has been turned down, which is likely due to only wanting a soft trickle down the waterfall, then the pond that is the water source could run dry. This would burn out the pump. But with a small pump does reducing the output cause the intake to pause when the filter reaches full capacity? 

.. ok re-reading your post I think I understand what you actually meant! (haha) When cleaning these filters if, say, the output pipe is held upright the water rushes down and eventually comes back up the intake pipe. So if this happened in the tank the water that should be occupying the pipe and waterfall area will instead fill up the pond and perhaps over-flow it. I'm guessing that this would happen every time the power is switched off? 

Alright, in this case that case it would definitely be safer and easier if I had a submersible one, but I'll still have to keep in mind that the pond must have the capacity to hold all of the water that's running through the system, not just that in the pond at any one time. I'll just have to figure out a natural-looking way to fence of the area while still being able to easily remove the pump when necessary...


I'm glad that you mentioned the snake diverting the flow too, I'll make sure to cover the outflow. If I have the water running down at a reasonable flow rate, though, is it likely that the snake will lie in its way and divert the water enough to splash it around the tank and empty the pond, causing the pump the burn out? I guess that it depends on the snake... if I recess the path of the water into the face of the background then hopefully even if it lies flat against the rock face the majority will fall behind it.

So much problem solving 

Thanks for the help ronhalling


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## Cypher69 (Nov 16, 2013)

What amount of water are you thinking of?

In regards to the snake diverting the flow...you could possibly install a false/raised bottom creating a sump... so no matter where the water may be diverted it will still be collected for the pump.


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## -Peter (Nov 17, 2013)

Aldi have a pump coming up next week for $40.


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## dragondragon (Nov 17, 2013)

What snake is going into the enclosure


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## squidlinc (Nov 17, 2013)

Not sure which snake is going in, it's just a pet project that I'm doing over the copious holidays that I have this year. With the size and shape I'd assume a smaller python, maybe a spotted? 

I'm wanting the water to travel about 30-40cm up, although if I can't get this pressure with a small pump I could make it a smaller drop with more water. I'm not sure what you meant with the sump, but as I have a separate area for the pond and waterfall I can angle all the walls towards the pond, which will take up most of that areas floor space. That way even if the water is diverted it will most likely eventually end up in the pond. 


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## Trimeresurus (Nov 17, 2013)

The wetness will likely be an issue for pythons.


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## squidlinc (Nov 18, 2013)

It's quite a long enclosure, about 1.7m. I was going to put the main heat source at one end and the waterfall at the other, I was hoping that this would reduce the amount of humidity as well as many vents. 

Do you think this would work, or would the whole tank become too humid? I guess even in the summer heat here the waterfall would create a fair bit if humidity. Is there any way to reduce this? 

I would love a keelback in there, but if I'm looking to sell this at some future point then I'd have more luck with a tank that suited pythons than one that suited keelbacks. I'm not really looking for profit here, just a return on my spendings. I don't want someone buying it and their pythons suffering, although I would obviously inform them. 


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## dragondragon (Nov 18, 2013)

You could even get a water python in that size


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 18, 2013)

Water features such as you are proposing are unsuitable for a standard enclosure, say 4x2x2, if you are intending to keep a python in it. The size is just too small to allow the variation in dampness and humdity that your snake will need. Possibe (maybe) in something at least twice as wide (minimum 8 feet, 2.5m), but the proximity to the moving water and constant evaporation in a 4 foot enclosure will not allow any suitable niches for the snake to get away from the damp. It's very likely that you'll get heavy condensation runoff down the glass and into the glass track and the floor of the enclosure when conditions outside the tank are cooler than the humid interior.

Water pythons do not need a wet or damp environment to thrive - they will suffer the same problems of any python if kept in damp, constantly humid environments.

Jamie


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## squidlinc (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks Jamie, I'll definitely consider what you've said bit would you mind answering a few questions? The size of pond that I'm envisioning is approximately 20cmx20cm at most and not very deep. The deepest part would be around 7cm to fit the pump. The water that will flowing into it will only be travelling about 20cm and will be no more than a trickle. 

I don't really understand why this would create so much humidity in such a large area, especially since many enclosures would have relatively similar ratios if water to land, just with water bowls and soaking spots during shedding. Is it the running water? I guess that would release more moisture into the air but would a small trickle be enough to fill the whole enclosure? It's a tv cabinet, so it's 2ft deep and also about 1.5 high. The pond will be set down in the right hand corner and boxed in by a cub board section that takes up the lower middle of the enclosure. 

I would really love to have this thing in there but I won't if it really is going to be to humid. 


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## Tehmwak (Nov 19, 2013)

squidlinc said:


> I would really love to have this thing in there but I won't if it really is going to be to humid.



You could always put in an exhaust fan. If you wanted to get really fancy you could run it on a cheap WH8040 humidity controller.


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## -Peter (Nov 19, 2013)

Good for Boyd's


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 19, 2013)

squidlinc said:


> Thanks Jamie, I'll definitely consider what you've said bit would you mind answering a few questions? The size of pond that I'm envisioning is approximately 20cmx20cm at most and not very deep. The deepest part would be around 7cm to fit the pump. The water that will flowing into it will only be travelling about 20cm and will be no more than a trickle.
> 
> I don't really understand why this would create so much humidity in such a large area, especially since many enclosures would have relatively similar ratios if water to land, just with water bowls and soaking spots during shedding. Is it the running water? I guess that would release more moisture into the air but would a small trickle be enough to fill the whole enclosure? It's a tv cabinet, so it's 2ft deep and also about 1.5 high. The pond will be set down in the right hand corner and boxed in by a cub board section that takes up the lower middle of the enclosure.
> 
> ...



From what you say there it sounds as though it should be OK. I've seen some "waterfalls" which are basically torrents, but the small surface area of the pond and the trickle you want in an enclosure that size sounds fine to me. (I was envisioning a huge waterfall with vast amounts of water everywhere, which some ambitious keepers seem to think are just the bees knees for GTPs etc ).

I'd say go for it at this stage!

Jamie


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## squidlinc (Nov 19, 2013)

Yes! Haha, when I get these ideas I find it hard to let go  I'll keep the humidity in mind as I'm building it and can always look at the exhaust fan suggested above if it is to humid when I run the system to test it. 
Now to actually attempt to make the thing... 
Thank you! 


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## Rogue5861 (Nov 29, 2013)

squidlinc said:


> Yes! Haha, when I get these ideas I find it hard to let go  I'll keep the humidity in mind as I'm building it and can always look at the exhaust fan suggested above if it is to humid when I run the system to test it.
> Now to actually attempt to make the thing...
> Thank you!
> 
> ...



A 4" ceiling speaker vent and a 120mm high flow 12v pc fan will remove excess heat/moisture. I use a couple in enclosures and they work well, my house ac is hopeless so more flow through my enclosures cause the cooler air to enter and keep temps lower.


Rick


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