# illegal reptiles?



## Obrien (Jun 28, 2007)

a while ago i asked if it was possible to buy leopard geckos in australia and someone said no but i am sure there are some somewhere so this got me thinking about how common it is for people to hvae or know someone that knows someone with an overseas reptile i am just interested no names need to be said just courious and i would also like to know what sort of animals make it through illegally?


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## Dan123 (Jun 28, 2007)

corn snakes, newts, hognose vipers, boa's, burms just to name the more common ones.
its not uncommon to hear of someone who has them. best bet is to never associate yourself with the person/s


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## bluetongue beno (Jun 28, 2007)

yes people probably keep lepord geckos in aust but only illegally


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## Obrien (Jun 28, 2007)

i am amzed that they can manage to get them through i wouldnt have thought they would survive being sent through mail and i didnt think they would be worth enough to bebought in by a boat but like everything if someone wants something there is always a way to get it i surpose.


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## Rennie (Jun 28, 2007)

bluetongue beno said:


> yes people probably keep lepord geckos in aust but only illegally



Australian Reptile Park have them legally, maybe a few other zoos too but that would be about it (kept legally at least).

In the past I've been offered corns, boas and chameleons, the latter was very tempting.
I also knew a guy years ago who had an illegal 3 foot fresh water croc in his garage.


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## COOP (Jun 28, 2007)

anythings possible


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## Dan123 (Jun 28, 2007)

it cant be that hard as you always hear storys bout poor animals in coke bottles and brief case's so it must work for some people. illegals that arnt uncommon in Aus such as corns are sometimes bred over here.


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

I know a chinese guy who can get me anything. Even bengal tiger cubs. It's crazy.


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## coxy (Jun 28, 2007)

A girl i know the other day told me she knows someone with a rattlesnake, are these people stupid ?? what if they got bit by an illegal ven?? There would be no anti-ven available to them


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## hazzard (Jun 28, 2007)

I'll take a bengal tiger cub and feed it to my lavender albino retic?


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## Ranga (Jun 28, 2007)

ull prolly find alot of people r also keeping legal pets illegally (ie without a licence)

but as stated above wat can ya do? if sumone wants sumthing hard enuf, there rlly isnt anyhting anyone anywhere can do to stop him/her.

its basically up to self decency and morals more than anything~


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

Horsy said:


> I know a chinese guy who can get me anything. Even bengal tiger cubs. It's crazy.


 
Awwww I want a tiger cub! Can you hook me up??  The guy I bought one of my horses off had lion cubs in his backyard... so cute!!! He had a circus, but the circus shut down and he kept the lion cubs.


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

Yeah I'll hook you up. I'd prefer lions myself.


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## Obrien (Jun 28, 2007)

horsy u serious bengal tiger that would be an amazing pet lol and rattle snakes are a bit dangeroous i really dont know anyone with any illegal pets so i thought there wernt that many but its deffinatly fun hearing about them i really cant see what harm a leopard gecko can do in australia thats what i would really want but i wont get one unless they become legal lol.


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## da_donkey (Jun 28, 2007)

It is very common, my GF is a bar maid and the other day she was talking to a guy about snakes and he said he had a gravid rainbow boa and we could have one of the babies for $1500.....ha what a joke


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm 100% serious. He gets my friend illegal fish and has offered me monkeys and stuff.


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## coxy (Jun 28, 2007)

The fines for illegal pets can be huge, i asked the guy at the aquarium a while back about piranhas (not knowing they were illegal at the time ) because i though they would be awesome in the tank and he said the fine is $25,000 each piranha


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## da_donkey (Jun 28, 2007)

i used to know a bloke who rekoned he could get just about anything....... i must say a monkey would be cool


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

I saw the little tiger cubs at Tiger Island the other weekend though... omg... _beyond_ cute. Just adorable. Until they grow six inch canines lol :shock:


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

Obrien said:


> i really cant see what harm a leopard gecko can do in australia


 
Yeah, that's what they said about Cane Toads


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## Rennie (Jun 28, 2007)

I have a friend that wants a pet shark, can anyone help out? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Reptile_Boy (Jun 28, 2007)

well the parahna bit...... thats funny there id pet store around the corner who sells parahnas for 100 each fish......... but i dont get why we carnt have exotics reptiles . i know depending on the spieces it can be harmfull but i think that australia should let licensed reptile keepers to keep certain exotics one a speical ermit is ginnc! thats what i reckon. and i'll take a spidermoney and a tiger! hornsy


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

Well my license says I can own a Grey Nurse Shark. Where the hell do I get one of those?


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## Anthony88 (Jun 28, 2007)

Rennie said:


> I have a friend that wants a pet shark, can anyone help out? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Here in NSW you can buy port jackson sharks for your tank, they only cost around$100 each to.


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

I own a rainbow shark, silver shark and red-tailed shark but they are small.


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

Bugger owning one, I would settle just to _see_ a Great White in captivity :shock:


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

Just watch Ace Ventura.


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## coxy (Jun 28, 2007)

Anthony88 said:


> Here in NSW you can buy port jackson sharks for your tank, they only cost around$100 each to.


Yeah there is one at my aquarium i wanted him so badly only problem is you need a 12ft tank to keep him in when he grows to an adult(about 4ft), they dont grow to the size of the tank they keep going


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## coxy (Jun 28, 2007)

Horsy said:


> I own a rainbow shark, silver shark and red-tailed shark but they are small.


There not sharks lol they are just given that name because they kinda look like sharks


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

I want to go to Sea World in the States... I wanna see the performing Orcas. Why don't we have cool stuff like that here?? All we have is some lame-ass dolphins... I mean yeah they are kinda cool, but they ain't Orcas.


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

I like the sharks at underwater world. Apparently you cant keep great whites in places like that because they'd die of heart attacks or something.


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## jessop (Jun 28, 2007)

*monkey*

horsey i wanna spider monkey! Pretty please!!!


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

Hahaha. Spider monkey? What is that.


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

Yeah I think they have tried to keep a Great White in captivity before, it kept bashing it's head into the side of it's tank or something until it killed itself. What a shame, they'd be so cool to see up close... well... behind at least twelve inches of heavy duty perspex, preferably :lol: The sharks at Shark Bay are very impressive though :shock:  It's cool to be able to get so close to them... cool and kinda scary...


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

My dream is to go swimming with sharks. I love them.


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## Ranga (Jun 28, 2007)

Me Want Chameleon


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm getting swarmed with pms. argh. i should have kept my mouth closed.


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## Miss B (Jun 28, 2007)

LOL Horsy you poor thing, shouldn't have said anything!

(PS did you get my PM about the tiger cub? )


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## Rennie (Jun 28, 2007)

Horsy said:


> I'm getting swarmed with pms. argh. i should have kept my mouth closed.



Surprise, surprise :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Horsy (Jun 28, 2007)

No tigers yet. Mainly reps.


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## thesilverbeast (Jun 29, 2007)

lol horsy! what are they asking for? 


if you wanted to swim with sharks come down to melbourne and do it at the aquarium. i have and it was pretty awesome unless you wanted something more natural in the open waters.


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## Horsy (Jun 29, 2007)

Call me crazy but I'd love to go out in open waters and scuba dive in the middle of a feeding frenzy.


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## thesilverbeast (Jun 29, 2007)

oh i would love that too! any scuba diving i would love.


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

Reptile_Boy said:


> well the parahna bit...... thats funny there id pet store around the corner who sells parahnas for 100 each fish.........



Where exactly around the corner is this petshop?



Hix


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## method (Jun 29, 2007)

Horsy said:


> Call me crazy but I'd love to go out in open waters and scuba dive in the middle of a feeding frenzy.



Let me tie this delicous bass to your leg


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## jessop (Jun 29, 2007)

here is a google spider monkey link... make great companions i hear though i'd settle for a chimp or orangutan


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## MrSpike (Jun 29, 2007)

Great White sharks can't be kept in captivity because the are constantly moving. There was a bit of research done a while back where they tracked a Great White for a few weeks. They started in Cape Town south Africa where they caught and tagged the big fishy, and it traveled across to WA, swam south until it got to the end of WA, then east through the Great Australian Bite past Victoria then headed north up past NSW and to far north QLD.

I don't think they will have a fish tank big enough to keep one in captivity? :lol:


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## Miss B (Jun 29, 2007)

The only Great White ever kept in captivity for any significant period of time (137 days I believe) was a small 4ft female at the Monterey Bay Aquarium in California. She was kept in a one-million-gallon tank. There's virtually nowhere in the world capable of housing and displaying a fully-grown (up to 21ft) Great White like the type you see on the doco's. They also believe that electromagnetic fields in tanks constructed using concrete and steel can interfere with the Great White's very sensitive navigational skills. To top it all off, Great White sharks will not feed in captivity (and the one or two that have are the exception to the rule).

And MrSpike, you are right, they really know how to travel! Monterey Bay Aquarium tagged an adult Great White and were astonished to discover it eventually swam from California all the way to Hawaii :shock:


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## moosenoose (Jun 29, 2007)

Obrien said:


> i am amzed that they can manage to get them through i wouldnt have thought they would survive being sent through mail and i didnt think they would be worth enough to bebought in by a boat but like everything if someone wants something there is always a way to get it i surpose.




It's amazing what some people will stick up their backsides! Probably explains why a lot of thorny devils aren't smuggled out this way


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## Aslan (Jun 29, 2007)

JAWS got sick in captivity too...


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## junglepython2 (Jun 29, 2007)

There's a whale shark in captivity in Asia somewhere.


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## Reaper (Jun 29, 2007)

theres a shop in carringbah sydney that sells sharks- port jacksons and small reef sharks i think. they have alot of predator tanks set up. its called Magestic aquariums


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## monix (Jun 29, 2007)

Horsy said:


> I'm 100% serious. He gets my friend illegal fish and has offered me monkeys and stuff.


 

MONKEYS!!!!  ZOMG!!! i want one!!!!


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## inthegrass (Jun 29, 2007)

reading this thread makes me wonder how many people do or would keep illegal reptiles or other things.
cheers


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## dansfish4tea (Jun 29, 2007)

I think most ppl would keep an exotic
if they got an oppintunity to keep there fav animal most ppl would jump to the oppintunity

i have herd of ppl keepin freshies down here in newy which is ilegal in nsw

but i think its LEGAL to keep them in the ACT? go figure

can any1 get me a freshie?


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## thesilverbeast (Jun 29, 2007)

are any species of monkey legal because a few years ago i met someone who was carrying a monkey around. it was wearing a diaper  

it would have been a good 15 years ago, were the laws different then?


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## da_donkey (Jun 29, 2007)

moosenoose said:


> It's amazing what some people will stick up their backsides! Probably explains why a lot of thorny devils aren't smuggled out this way


 
hahahahah call of the day for sure :lol::lol:


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## Pythons_Reptiles (Jun 29, 2007)

The rule is 
If you want to keep an illegal reptile just rename it, Seems to work with the Jags. I have seen heaps of pics on the net in Australia of the new jungle colours available.
Also all the albinos just appeared in Australia one day.
Some may be from here others are from over seas.
Maybe try Bull mastif x tabbie cat (Tiger Cub) 
HEHEHE


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## mikep (Jun 29, 2007)

how come we are not aloud foriegn reptiles but i have seen birds,dogs,cats from overseas they would do more damage than a repitle i just dont understand why they are aloud


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## Miss B (Jun 29, 2007)

Foreign reptiles could do a LOT of damage to our ecosystem. On one hand it would be cool to own some of the reptiles available overseas, but on the other hand we really need to protect the rather uniqure flora and fauna that we have here. The fact that Australia is an island helps.


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

thesilverbeast said:


> are any species of monkey legal because a few years ago i met someone who was carrying a monkey around. it was wearing a diaper
> 
> it would have been a good 15 years ago, were the laws different then?



Before the current laws were in place (back in the 60's) there were some monkeys kept in private hands. I understand there are still one or two people with licences to hold monkeys. They may even be breeding them, but selling them is difficult as you need to have the right facilities - a very large cage (I think the minimum is 3m x 3m x 3m) with a solid concrete base - and then the monkeys themseves sell for several thousand dollars each ($15,000 from memory). You need more than one, because they are social animals (preferably three or four).

That's what the situation was in NSW a few years ago, anyway. Sombody out Sackville way had some. They were one of the Macaques (Rhesus, Crab-eater, or Bonnet, can't remember which).

DEC or Dept of Agriculture will know the details better.



Hix


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## Jonno from ERD (Jun 29, 2007)

Pythons_Hobbies said:


> The rule is
> If you want to keep an illegal reptile just rename it, Seems to work with the Jags. I have seen heaps of pics on the net in Australia of the new jungle colours available.
> Also all the albinos just appeared in Australia one day.
> Some may be from here others are from over seas.


 
That's a big call, considering the ancestory of both lines of common albino python is well documented.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 29, 2007)

Pythons_Hobbies said:


> The rule is
> If you want to keep an illegal reptile just rename it, Seems to work with the Jags. I have seen heaps of pics on the net in Australia of the new jungle colours available.
> Also all the albinos just appeared in Australia one day.
> Some may be from here others are from over seas.
> ...


 
What aussie albino herps in Aus are from o/s, just about all the ones I can think off where found in the wild here in Ausralia.


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## Pythons_Reptiles (Jun 29, 2007)

As im sure all the Green tree pythons here are from Australia. This debate could go on forever, those who do the right thing think everyone else does.
Sorry to tell you but there are heaps of reptiles arriving in Australia all the time, i dont agree with this practice but money is motivating alot of people to do things.
(Just my 2 cents worth)
Sorry if i upset any legit collectors.


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## sxc_celly (Jun 29, 2007)

I think some animals are just not meant to be kept as pets. I had someone offer me red green tree pythons, ball pythons, cougars, fennec foxes, monkeys, tigers and loads more. I mean honestly what would i do with a cougar? Yes it sounds coll it theory, but the facilities to hold it, the exercise, food, and im sure it wouldnt be very cuddly at 2 yrs old with huge canine incizes. I had someone else offer me a fur seal they caught off the aust coast in a net - idiots got fined a whopper of a fine! Some animals i think just shouldnt be kept as pets for the average joe bloggs. As for exotics, - NO exotics should be allowed in australia except for zoo's. Cane toads, rabbits, red earred sliders are a good example!


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## Addicted (Jun 29, 2007)

dansfish4tea said:


> i have herd of ppl keepin freshies down here in newy which is ilegal in nsw but i think its LEGAL to keep them in the ACT?



As far as I'm aware there is only 1 keeper in the ACT who is licenced to keep freshies and it was under very strict conditions. I've been told that Environment ACT won't be approving any other applications


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## dansfish4tea (Jun 29, 2007)

mabey i should applie for a freshie here ahahhahhah

wat do u reckon my chances are hahahhahha


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## Auzlizardking (Jun 29, 2007)

In Vic you can keep grocs


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## Gecko :) (Jun 29, 2007)

*iIl take a Monkey, Tiger & Chameleon .. please*

I would LOVE a monkey, or a Tiger( preferably white) !!, . oh & a Chameleon

I use to work with a Vietnamese guy who told me a few funny stories about monkeys!!
They are apparantly quiet common over there, kept as pet, some people use them to rob houses , .lol
Apparntly they are very smart and you have to be careful what you show them.
They can light fires and run a muck etc & apparantly they are pretty dirty!, . not sure if all that is true, but that is what he told me! .... I still want one though

I also have heard about ppl out Sackville way keeping monkeys.


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## choppy (Jun 29, 2007)

Hix said:


> Before the current laws were in place (back in the 60's) there were some monkeys kept in private hands. I understand there are still one or two people with licences to hold monkeys. They may even be breeding them, but selling them is difficult as you need to have the right facilities - a very large cage (I think the minimum is 3m x 3m x 3m) with a solid concrete base - and then the monkeys themseves sell for several thousand dollars each ($15,000 from memory). You need more than one, because they are social animals (preferably three or four).
> 
> That's what the situation was in NSW a few years ago, anyway. Sombody out Sackville way had some. They were one of the Macaques (Rhesus, Crab-eater, or Bonnet, can't remember which).
> 
> ...


 
Heard of a bloke that had a pet monkey, not sure what type but, they can be very clingy and protective. His used to destroy the house if he left it alone and not caged. When he had his girlfreind around he used to have to lock the monkey up as it would attack her to keep her away from him, full on bites, scratches, ripping hair etc. May seem like a great pet at first, but definatley not for most people.

A lot of exotics are already illegally available..it would be better to have them controlled under some type of licencing system than force the market/keeping underground as people are putting themselves, others and our unique environment at risk because if they decide they don't want piranhas anymore there couldn't be too many people that you could off load them to, so what do I do? pour them down the river? Or what about that 15ft+ burmese that keeps trying to eat me, let him go in the bush? 

If there was a system to control who has what and it wasn't overly complicated most people would abide by it, curently what choice has been left to those who will willing break the law regardless of the consequence, NONE. I'm sure there would be a few suprises if we knew what some people illegally kept in the animal collections.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 29, 2007)

There are plenty of monkey's kept at educational institutions for research purposes. There would be more in the country then people think.


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

Gecko :) said:


> I use to work with a Vietnamese guy who told me a few funny stories about monkeys!! They are apparantly quiet common over there, kept as pet, some people use them to rob houses , .lol
> Apparntly they are very smart and you have to be careful what you show them.
> They can light fires and run a muck etc & apparantly they are pretty dirty!, . not sure if all that is true, but that is what he told me!



Yes, that sounds correct.



Choppy said:


> Heard of a bloke that had a pet monkey, not sure what type but, they can be very clingy and protective. His used to destroy the house if he left it alone and not caged. When he had his girlfreind around he used to have to lock the monkey up as it would attack her to keep her away from him, full on bites, scratches, ripping hair etc. May seem like a great pet at first, but definatley not for most people.



Like I said - social animals and you really need to have three of four. If you don't, they need constant companionship and can be quite difficult. 

Having said that, they are ideal companion animals for people who are confined to the house, to a bed or a wheelchair. Some companies in the States train Capuchins (highly intelligent Sth American monkeys) to act as companions and caregivers to people stuck in wheelchairs, getting them drinks and food, bringing them the TV remote control, or the phone when it rings etc.



Hix


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## monix (Jun 29, 2007)

well one of my good friend has a cousin in cambodia that owns a monkey 'farm'! (hahaha i always get this visual image of some machine pickin monkeys from trees.. like fruit picker)...

and since cambodia is one of the destinations for my honeymoon we just booked in oct/nov... i will go find out about these so called monkeys and report back..


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## Jonno from ERD (Jun 29, 2007)

Pythons_Hobbies said:


> As im sure all the Green tree pythons here are from Australia. This debate could go on forever, those who do the right thing think everyone else does.
> Sorry to tell you but there are heaps of reptiles arriving in Australia all the time, i dont agree with this practice but money is motivating alot of people to do things.
> (Just my 2 cents worth)
> Sorry if i upset any legit collectors.


 

Nobody is under the delusion that reptiles aren't been imported into the country in big numbers. Whilst I am highly skeptical of people having Cougars and Sumatran Tigers in Australia ("It's just a stripey Bull Mastiff, nothing to worry about neighbour!"), you specifically said that albino pythons just suddenly popped up in Australia. I have many friends and acquaintances with albino Olives and Darwins, and the history of these animals is well documented in text, and on the Internet. For you to suggest that these snakes are descendants of illegal imports is insulting.

The same goes with your comments about Jungles. There's been three main people posting photos of Jungles on the Internet lately, and again, these people have been in the game for a long time, and have been breeding these Jungles for those specific markings. Just because they look similar to some snakes overseas has no basis on where they originated. Nature recreates itself all the time, and there is nothing special about American breeders - they are doing exactly what Aussie breeders are doing, just 10 years ahead of us.

I understand what you are saying, but the examples you used were far from appropriate.

Cheers

Jonno


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## Jonno from ERD (Jun 29, 2007)

choppy said:


> Heard of a bloke that had a pet monkey, not sure what type but, they can be very clingy and protective. His used to destroy the house if he left it alone and not caged. When he had his girlfreind around he used to have to lock the monkey up as it would attack her to keep her away from him, full on bites, scratches, ripping hair etc. May seem like a great pet at first, but definatley not for most people.


 
G'day choppy,

I first witnessed the above scenario at Bredls Reptile Park in Renmark, SA. Peter had his favourite girl out sitting on his shoulder, and as Pete's wife came around the corner the little monkey went banana's! Baring her teeth, screeching, jumping around and generally trying her little monkey best to kill Pete's wife. Pete put her back in the cage (the monkey, not his wife), and left...as soon as Pete was gone his wife opened the cage and took her out. It's only when Pete is not around that his wife can interact with her. Apparently there have been some pretty close calls when his wife has had her out and Pete has suddenly appeared.

Cheers

Jonno


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## reece89 (Jun 29, 2007)

a monkey would be good but wouldnt they me noisey than everyone nextdoor will be thinking what the heck are they doing next door lol, a tiger would be nice till it gets big and eats ya haha i kept a bull shark i caught in a river 1ce i had to get rid of it mum crapped herself =(


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## Horsy (Jun 29, 2007)

Monkey's are ugly.


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## Horsy (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't think a tiger would eat you if you raised it from a cub. I've seen a documentary of this guy who raised three male lion cubs and now they are all fully grown, still entire males, and when he walks into their enclosure they all roll over for scratches on their tummy and purr. Other people can pat them while this guy is around but if he's not around then the lions won't let you near them.


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## Pythons Rule (Jun 29, 2007)

I met someone the other week asking if I knew anyone selling corn snakes I told here there illegal here in australia and she said she is aloud cause she has a special licence for them! can you get a special kind of licence can ya?

cheers Jody


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

Horsy said:


> I don't think a tiger would eat you if you raised it from a cub. I've seen a documentary of this guy who raised three male lion cubs and now they are all fully grown, still entire males, and when he walks into their enclosure they all roll over for scratches on their tummy and purr. Other people can pat them while this guy is around but if he's not around then the lions won't let you near them.


That's been documented many times. Lions and Tigers can be handreared like that, but some individuals can be grumblebums and dangerous (like most things). Leopards, on the other, get to an age where they turn nasty and can't be trusted. Cheetahs, on the hand, are reputed to be great pets, almost like a dog.



Hix


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## Retic (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm not sure what you mean about being offered red GTP's ? The vast majority of GTP's in this country are from overseas stock and that is common knowledge. Red babies aren't uncommon and perfectly legal.



sxc_celly said:


> I think some animals are just not meant to be kept as pets. I had someone offer me red green tree pythons, ball pythons, cougars, fennec foxes, monkeys, tigers and loads more. I mean honestly what would i do with a cougar? Yes it sounds coll it theory, but the facilities to hold it, the exercise, food, and im sure it wouldnt be very cuddly at 2 yrs old with huge canine incizes. I had someone else offer me a fur seal they caught off the aust coast in a net - idiots got fined a whopper of a fine! Some animals i think just shouldnt be kept as pets for the average joe bloggs. As for exotics, - NO exotics should be allowed in australia except for zoo's. Cane toads, rabbits, red earred sliders are a good example!


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## reece89 (Jun 29, 2007)

what about wolves can we keep these?


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

Pythons Rule said:


> I met someone the other week asking if I knew anyone selling corn snakes I told here there illegal here in australia and she said she is aloud cause she has a special licence for them! can you get a special kind of licence can ya?
> 
> cheers Jody



Don't know about the NT, but in NSW people with an Exhibitors Licence might be able to hold them. Otherwise, you can't get a license for Exotics.



Pythons Hobbies said:


> Sorry to tell you but there are heaps of reptiles arriving in Australia all the time



You got some hard evidence to back that up?

Ther are plenty already here, and there might be a few trickling in occassionally, but to say "heaps" are arriving "all the time" is a gross overstatement. Unless you have proof.

And No Reece, we can't keep wolves (notwithstanding the fact that dingos and domestic dogs are now considered subspecies of the grey wolf).



Hix


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## Pythons_Reptiles (Jun 29, 2007)

I guess if i have no photos or video it didnt happen.
If there are not many snakes arriving in Australia illegally, then we have a huge reptile breeding issue, because allmost everyone knows someone that either has or can get corns, boas, jags, balls, chameleons etc..........


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

Lots and lots already here.



Hix


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## m.punja (Jun 29, 2007)

dansfish4tea said:


> I think most ppl would keep an exotic
> if they got an oppintunity to keep there fav animal most ppl would jump to the oppintunity
> 
> i have herd of ppl keepin freshies down here in newy which is ilegal in nsw
> ...


 
I really want to keep cobras! And I recon since I started collecting 4 yrs ago I've been offered Cobras about 5 or 6 times from different ppl and each time it gets a little harder to say NO! Just not worth it although it is very tempting:lol: I think I will just have to stop all conversations about exotics to other keepers to stop getting offers.


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## Miss B (Jun 29, 2007)

Even hand reared tigers can be dangerous - what about the whole Siegfried and Roy thing? One of them was severely attacked by one of their white tigers, and the tiger had never shown any aggression previously. They have a lot of instincts in them, even when hand reared.


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## da_donkey (Jun 29, 2007)

I would say its fair to say that the majority of exotics are being bred here, with the exception being designer morphs which are smuggled out of Australia aswell as into Australia.

donk


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## Chris1 (Jun 29, 2007)

leopard gecko, boas, chameoleans, corn snakes, was offered leopard geckos a while ago but i dont want anything i cant take to a vet,....


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## JungleRob (Jun 29, 2007)

Horsy said:


> Well my license says I can own a Grey Nurse Shark. Where the hell do I get one of those?



Captive bred? Not likely. ;o)


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

How do all of you people get into cantact with people that can get these i know a fiar few people that do wird things but there is only a few i can thonk of that would be able to get something lol. Yeah i wouldt really want a pe that cant got to the vets because that would be very cruel and its not like u can go to the vets with a monkey and sit down and go this is my dog fido lol.


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## da_donkey (Jun 29, 2007)

I know people who have taken exotic herps to vets.


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

did the vet say anything or just not care?


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

Its annoying the more i look at leopard geckos the more i want one they look so amazing and they are way easier to look after than like bearded dragons but the risk in getting one isnt really worth it.


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## Aslan (Jun 29, 2007)

*Obrien* - You sound like you are waiting for someone to talk you into it...

...there is a simple solution, stop looking at them  ...and Beardies are hardly a difficult reptile to keep...


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## method (Jun 29, 2007)

Ok so whats the consequence for say keeping an exotic in Aus?


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

i know they arent difficult but all the setup makes it cost a fair bit in the end where for the loepard geckos all you need is a heat matt and they also look better than bearded dragons. dont get me wrong bearded dragons are sweet but leos are more colourfull and nice.


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

i think it is a massive fine and possibly jail im not sure about jail but deffinatly a massive fine as the government is worried about non indigenous animals.


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## Aslan (Jun 29, 2007)

*Obrien *- You are concerned about the cost of setting up beardies...?

...imagine the cost of smuggling reptiles...and the cost of getting caught...?? I think a tub and fluro light for that Beardie would be a whole heap more affordable...


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## moose (Jun 29, 2007)

If i remember correctly wasnt there a Study or Conference on Illegal Reptiles in Oz and there impact on the Industry/Environment, and even to the extent of a possible amnesty of some description allowing people to notify there Local Hospital of illegally held Exotic Venomous Reptiles? 

I certainly dont agree With Keeping Exotics in Oz unless its for Educational Purposes Like zoos and the like, But didnt somebody say that there is only a small amount of illegal's coming into oz? 

If this was the case why is the Federal Government Spending so much On trying to stop the illegal trade? 

Because its Happening Like it or Not! More than People Realise i would say.

Just my 2 cents.
Moose


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## Obrien (Jun 29, 2007)

I know the cost of being caught and thats why i wont do it i was just simply saying i wish i could have one because they are soo cool but i doubt there would even be that many in adelaide in nsw and victoria there would probably be hundreds i would imagine with like little china in sydney i bet if u went there you could find them pritty easily.


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## Hickson (Jun 29, 2007)

method said:


> Ok so whats the consequence for say keeping an exotic in Aus?



Maximum fine for a breach of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act is $110,000 and 5 years in jail. You might also have broken other Federal and State laws. Due to the Reverse Onus of Proof, in court you will need to prove you didn't smuggle the exotics in.

If the exotics were smuggled in, AQIS will not only seize the exotics, but also any native reptiles you have too, legally held or otherwise.



Moose said:


> If i remember correctly wasnt there a Study or Conference on Illegal Reptiles in Oz and there impact on the Industry/Environment, and even to the extent of a possible amnesty of some description allowing people to notify there Local Hospital of illegally held Exotic Venomous Reptiles?



That conference was held by Medical doctors who were discussing snakebites and envenomations. The concern was that hospuitals are not setup to treat people who have been bitten by their pet Mamba, and were discussing ways to at least be aware of what exotic vens were held in their areas.



Hix


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## gold&black... (Jun 29, 2007)

Also I find it funny that some people say that they know people who have exotics and don't approve of it but don't do anything about it...... If they were so concerned abt the environment and stuff they should be reporting it rather than telling people on forums that they actually know people who have them..... Don't see the point in telling people that they know some one who has an exotic or can get u an exotic when they should be actually doing something to stop it......... 

Everyone knows that smuggling happens, it will only stop if the people who know those people who do it, report it.......... Till then, I want a blood python and if u know some one who might know some one who might be illegally importing them please let me know (will keep it to myself, I promise)..... cheers

G/B.........


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## fishnben (Jun 29, 2007)

Obrien you never know, a few weeks ago a fellow went a bit crazy in adelaide and threw a heap of stuff from his apartment balcony in the middle of the city, cops went up there and he had a very nice looking Green iguana that the Zoo now owns.

The fish trade is rampant in illegals, I am in the industry and there is nothing you cannot purchase (except pointers, which you wouldnt want from what i have seen them capable of working on tuna farms for a few years)


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## Jonno from ERD (Jun 29, 2007)

m.punja said:


> I really want to keep cobras!


 
Mate, you're not missing much! Uncordinated wimpy Mulga's is all they are.


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## da_donkey (Jun 29, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Mate, you're not missing much! Uncordinated wimpy Mulga's is all they are.


 

LOL good call :lol:


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## Miss B (Jun 29, 2007)

I want a Zebra...


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## Obrien (Jun 30, 2007)

yeah u might get away wit ha zebra lol just say its a weird looking horse lol. i want a salamander they are so cool. Does anyone know of anyone with one of them in australia?


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## Hickson (Jun 30, 2007)

You mean an adult axolotyl? There's a few people on this site who either have them, or had them.



Hix


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## Obrien (Jun 30, 2007)

well there is a evolved for of axolotles but they apparently dont live long and they are not as cool as real ones like this one.


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## fishnben (Jun 30, 2007)

I use to have a salamander(adult axolotl).6-7 years ago. he was white with gold spots. someone in Adelaide used to morph them. They can be changed but it is quite stressful on the animal and quite tricky.

Ben


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## fishnben (Jun 30, 2007)

Thats the type of salamander you want obrien


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## snake man (Jun 30, 2007)

*exotic reptiles*

hey all, ive bee asked a number of times if i wanted to buy exotic animals such boas(south american ground boas, madigascan tree boas, emrald tree boas and more), corn snakes, retics, ball pythons, poison arow frogs, golden tamracs, igaunas and a few more but i wouldent buy these because i have a licence and keep a number of animals that are rare like gtp and rsp and if the animal services came i would lose them


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## Hickson (Jun 30, 2007)

Obrien: those salamanders you can't keep in Oz.

Snake Man: what's a golden tamrac?



Hix


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## Obrien (Jun 30, 2007)

> Thats the type of salamander you want obrien


 
im not quite sure what u mean by that. but yes they look call and i think they would be a pritty cool pet but apperently again they are illegal like everything lol.


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## cma_369 (Jun 30, 2007)

Hix said:


> Obrien: those salamanders you can't keep in Oz.
> 
> 
> Hix


Hence being in an "illegal" reptiles thread 

And about what are the golden tamracs, maybe theyre golden???


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## AnteUp (Jun 30, 2007)

I would love the opportunity to keep vipers. I think they're amazing.  I'll just have to wait until I move overseas..


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## Aslan (Jun 30, 2007)

cma_369 said:


> Hence being in an "illegal" reptiles thread
> 
> And about what are the golden tamracs, maybe theyre golden???


 
...thankyou for that mind boggling input...

*Obrien* - I disagree with you entirely - there are a few exotic reptiles which are alright but I think we have, without a doubt, the best reptiles available to us here in Oz...


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## moose (Jun 30, 2007)

Hix said:


> Maximum fine for a breach of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act is $110,000 and 5 years in jail. You might also have broken other Federal and State laws. Due to the Reverse Onus of Proof, in court you will need to prove you didn't smuggle the exotics in.
> 
> If the exotics were smuggled in, AQIS will not only seize the exotics, but also any native reptiles you have too, legally held or otherwise.
> 
> ...



After Writing that post i went back through some documents i had and found the Conference i mentioned, and yes it was in relation to hospitals having concerns over what exotic Ven's were being kept locally... Geez officer i thought it was a wimpy Mulga!


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## krusty (Jun 30, 2007)

i know some pepole that have some stuff but they where not bought in they where bred here
as most stuff is all redy here so there is no need to bring them in.


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## krusty (Jun 30, 2007)

Hix said:


> Maximum fine for a breach of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act is $110,000 and 5 years in jail. You might also have broken other Federal and State laws. Due to the Reverse Onus of Proof, in court you will need to prove you didn't smuggle the exotics in.
> 
> 
> what a joke, dont beleave every thing you read in the paper no one has or has even come close
> to geting a fine that big and out of every one that has been cought not one has done time for keeping exotics.and this bit about you need to prove you did not smuggle them in is a joke 2 as they need to prove you smuggled them in all you have to say is you got them of a bloke at the pub and unless they prove other wise your safe.


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## Aslan (Jun 30, 2007)

krusty said:


> .and this bit about you need to prove you did not smuggle them in is a joke 2 as they need to prove you smuggled them in all you have to say is you got them of a bloke at the pub and unless they prove other wise your safe.


 
They may not be able to charge you with smuggling them (I am not sure on the legality or onus for that specific offence) - however you would be quickly convicted of "Knowingly deal with suspected proceeds of crime" or "Goods in personal custody suspected of being stolen or otherwise unlawfully obtained"...(in NSW anyway)...

...and in these circumstances YOU must prove that they are not illegal...impossible if you are a licenced herp keeper...


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## foxysnake (Jun 30, 2007)

reece89 said:


> what about wolves can we keep these?



I WANT A WOLF!! Overseas, you can keep wolf hybrids without a hassle and they're gorgeous!!

http://www.wolfhybrids.com/main.htm - a stud

http://www.pets4you.com/wolf.html - wolf hybrid puppies for sale


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## Obrien (Jun 30, 2007)

yeah them wolves are heaps cool but i would say they might be dangerous i dono really never seen one. If anyone has an overseas venomous reptile must really be crazy because they could potentially kill alot of people unlike the ones i would like to have like a leopard gecko and a slamander they are not really a deadly animal are they lol.


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## m000x (Jun 30, 2007)

*....*

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*re: P's in Sydney selling for 100$ - They may have been redhooks, not RBP there are alot of people who think they have P's when in fact they have silver dollars, you can't get pacus here for less than 250 let alone a P, 5 years ago they were selling for atleast 200 - 500 per unit, with a catch of you had to buy in lots of 10.

RTboa, iguanas, vipers, cham, monkeys, sugar gliders(non-exotic).. they have all popped up from time to time, even you fellow Sydney dwellers, if you look around for the right things, you do stumble across freshies. 


someone posted a pic of a "salamander" that one you posted is illegal, and the ones you morph out of axolotls are crap, they are not meant to be morphed, they don't live as long...

monkeys suck, they are totally vicious pets, look around at the damage they can do to people.. There is no way you can get a vet to check over a monkey here you will reported so fast to the auths.

about 15 years ago there was a lady who use to breed squirrels too, haven't seen them around for yonks!

my .02c

*[/FONT]


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## m.punja (Jun 30, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Mate, you're not missing much! Uncordinated wimpy Mulga's is all they are.


I've been told after a week or so they stop hooding then they are no better then tigers.


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## Obrien (Jun 30, 2007)

yeah i heard that the morphed axolotls were crap and the dont live verry long thats why a propper salamander would be cool.


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## m.punja (Jun 30, 2007)

krusty said:


> what a joke, dont beleave every thing you read in the paper no one has or has even come close
> to geting a fine that big and out of every one that has been cought not one has done time for keeping exotics.and this bit about you need to prove you did not smuggle them in is a joke 2 as they need to prove you smuggled them in all you have to say is you got them of a bloke at the pub and unless they prove other wise your safe.


 
Ive heard a few stories of people who have been caught with exotics. One bloke is a guy who i know who was caught with rattle snakes, ever speices. He no longer has his lic, but his wife does :lol: Another story i heard was of a guy who had his controlers lic and advance lic with lots of rep kept on book. He was raided when police found out he was stealing electricty. They followed the wire to the shed where he was stealing the power to grow a crop and heat all sorts of vipers, rattlers and cobras. Story goes police made a mistake, he kept all his on lic reps and even kept his controlers lic. Dont know how true these stories are


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## Jonno from ERD (Jul 1, 2007)

G'day m.punga,

Both the stories are based on the truth, but are also totally incorrect. Some of the information is available on the internet from credibly sources (i.e court proceedings).

With regards to cobra's, I only worked with them for two years so I am no expert, however one of the blokes I worked with was amazing, as was Tim Nias. We had some very quiet ones but there are techniques you can use to get them to hood, and you can learn their habits and reactions which can allow you to do some very silly things with them. Very predictable animals that get very boring. I learnt the basics and could normally get them to do what I wanted if I needed to. 

There are lots of rumours of people keeping cobras illegally, and obviously some of them are true. 

Cheers

Jonno


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## krusty (Jul 1, 2007)

Aslan said:


> They may not be able to charge you with smuggling them (I am not sure on the legality or onus for that specific offence) - however you would be quickly convicted of "Knowingly deal with suspected proceeds of crime" or "Goods in personal custody suspected of being stolen or otherwise unlawfully obtained"...(in NSW anyway)...
> 
> ...and in these circumstances YOU must prove that they are not illegal...impossible if you are a licenced herp keeper...



unless they have proof of you smuggling them in or breeding them they can not charge you with it they can only charge you with keeping a controld pest in victoria.

and what do you mean by ,you must prove that they are not illegal ???
because unless you have an EXOTICS licence in vic they are illegal.


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## krusty (Jul 1, 2007)

m.punja said:


> Ive heard a few stories of people who have been caught with exotics. One bloke is a guy who i know who was caught with rattle snakes, ever speices. He no longer has his lic, but his wife does :lol: Another story i heard was of a guy who had his controlers lic and advance lic with lots of rep kept on book. He was raided when police found out he was stealing electricty. They followed the wire to the shed where he was stealing the power to grow a crop and heat all sorts of vipers, rattlers and cobras. Story goes police made a mistake, he kept all his on lic reps and even kept his controlers lic. Dont know how true these stories are



i know at least 10 pepole in vic that have bean cought with exotics and have not lost any of there other licenced reps as it comes under a different law in vic.and the same with a mate in qld 2.


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## bluetongue beno (Jul 1, 2007)

i met this family at this party, they had a pet monkey and it was part of the family, it was wearing proper cloths ( a muscle top and some shorts ) and beleive it or not it was drinking beer!


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## Miss B (Jul 1, 2007)

foxysnake said:


> I WANT A WOLF!! Overseas, you can keep wolf hybrids without a hassle and they're gorgeous!!


 
Just get a Husky, next best thing! 

This is Kataan...


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## coxy (Jul 1, 2007)

Reptile_Boy said:


> well the parahna bit...... thats funny there id pet store around the corner who sells parahnas for 100 each fish.........



Couldn't find much text on the laws but this is something i found

Currently there are no recorded cases of piranha being found in natural waterways
within Australia. However there have been accounts of piranhas entering Australia for
the aquarium trade . These events have been associated with the illegal smuggling of
the fish at the Australian border, which has resulted in the confiscation of the animals
by AQIS and Australian Customs (pers comm.). Taronga Zoo housed and kept
Piranha in 1980, which were obtained through confiscated specimens by Australian
Customs (pers. comm.).
Given the evidence of smuggling of these species it is very likely that a number of
specimens are to be found in illegal private collections within Australia. Anecdotal
evidence would also suggest that this is the case.


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## Hickson (Jul 2, 2007)

Hix said:


> Maximum fine for a breach of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act is $110,000 and 5 years in jail. You might also have broken other Federal and State laws. Due to the Reverse Onus of Proof, in court you will need to prove you didn't smuggle the exotics in.





krusty said:


> what a joke, dont beleave every thing you read in the paper no one has or has even come close
> to geting a fine that big and out of every one that has been cought not one has done time for keeping exotics.and this bit about you need to prove you did not smuggle them in is a joke 2 as they need to prove you smuggled them in all you have to say is you got them of a bloke at the pub and unless they prove other wise your safe.



First of all, I didn't read it in the paper, I read it in the legislation. That is the maximum penalty. The judges don't have to issue the maximum, they can sentence whatever fine they want.

Three years ago they changed the legislation to include the Reverse Onus of Proof. Because of this, they legally had to have an amnesty (which they did). If you are picked up with exotics, you must proof you didn't smuggle it in. The idea of including this clause is that the only way you can get out the smuggling charge is to name the person you got the exotic from (the 'some guy in a pub' excuse won't work).



coxy said:


> Taronga Zoo housed and kept
> Piranha in 1980, which were obtained through confiscated specimens by Australian
> Customs (pers. comm.).



I can verify that too. There were 17 fish. And AQIS still intercept the periodic shipments.



Hix


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## Tarek (Jul 2, 2007)

Obrien said:


> i am amzed that they can manage to get them through i wouldnt have thought they would survive being sent through mail and i didnt think they would be worth enough to bebought in by a boat but like everything if someone wants something there is always a way to get it i surpose.



they are bieng breed here mate no need to be sent by mail or anything they are not even smuggled in nay more they are all breed right here


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## Tarek (Jul 2, 2007)

coxy said:


> A girl i know the other day told me she knows someone with a rattlesnake, are these people stupid ?? what if they got bit by an illegal ven?? There would be no anti-ven available to them



rattlesnake bit is easyly treated all u have to do is dive to a hospital where they hold a deathadder anti-ven just the bit of a rattle snake is much worst cos those guys fangs are long and i i mean long


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## dansfish4tea (Jul 2, 2007)

Thats handy to know
I'll remember that next time i come across a rattle snake


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## BIG RYANO (Jul 2, 2007)

As Tarek said the vast majority of exotic reptiles are bred right here, and have been for decades. I have personally seen in peoples collections things such as Retics, Burmese, Balls, Corns, King snakes , half a dozen species of Cobras, Rattlers and Vipers, Sand boas etc. I cant remember them all. All multi generational captive bred right here. I've also been told of a bloke breeding yellow and green anacondas in western Sydney. It's a different scene, there's a hell of a lot of people keeping reptiles out there without licence's.


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## stringbean (Jul 2, 2007)

some one was saying before "but its only a gecko, what harm can it do", what about asian house gecko's in QLD and the dammage they have done to native species of reps. yes they are only a gecko but they are the only type of geckos i have ever seen around my place.


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## BIG RYANO (Jul 2, 2007)

What damage have house geckoes done?


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## Retic (Jul 2, 2007)

We have the Asian house gecko and the much larger Velvet geckos in our place living side by side. I think the former species do force out some smaller species though. 
The 2 species seem to 'happily' live together here albeit grudgingly. LOL.


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## elapid68 (Jul 2, 2007)

dansfish4tea said:


> i have herd of ppl keepin freshies down here in newy which is ilegal in nsw
> 
> but i think its LEGAL to keep them in the ACT? go figure
> 
> can any1 get me a freshie?



We can keep both Freshies and Salties down here but we can't keep File snakes. go figure :shock:


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## cooper (Jul 2, 2007)

Hix said:


> Before the current laws were in place (back in the 60's) there were some monkeys kept in private hands. I understand there are still one or two people with licences to hold monkeys. They may even be breeding them, but selling them is difficult as you need to have the right facilities - a very large cage (I think the minimum is 3m x 3m x 3m) with a solid concrete base - and then the monkeys themseves sell for several thousand dollars each ($15,000 from memory). You need more than one, because they are social animals (preferably three or four).
> 
> That's what the situation was in NSW a few years ago, anyway. Sombody out Sackville way had some. They were one of the Macaques (Rhesus, Crab-eater, or Bonnet, can't remember which).
> 
> ...


 

kellyville pets in sydney is the only pet shop in australia to sell a monkey, it was in 1980 something, it is still alive and kept with an exotic licence in west sydney, this is the only monkey that has ever been sold legally in australia, and was the reason that new laws came in to stop the sale of them in australia, and its even been a question on the tv show sale of the century!


and for the person that wants a chameleon a friend of a friend can get them for $3000 big money big risk!


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## Obrien (Jul 2, 2007)

damn 3 grand just for a chameleon it better be made of gold lol.


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## Retic (Jul 2, 2007)

$3000, tell him he's dreaming. They are way cheaper than that, apparently LOL.


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## Rennie (Jul 2, 2007)

cooper said:


> and for the person that wants a chameleon a friend of a friend can get them for $3000 big money big risk!



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I've been offered them before, captive bred in Sydney and I'm sure it was more like $500. I wouldn't even buy it for that (well, I would if they were legal, but anyway) good luck to them! :lol:


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## m.punja (Jul 3, 2007)

Tarek said:


> rattlesnake bit is easyly treated all u have to do is dive to a hospital where they hold a deathadder anti-ven just the bit of a rattle snake is much worst cos those guys fangs are long and i i mean long


 
I heard the general antiv-venom for tiger snakes works on a speices of cobra


----------



## JasonL (Jul 3, 2007)

cooper said:


> and for the person that wants a chameleon a friend of a friend can get them for $3000 big money big risk!



I was offered some a couple of months ago for $400ea.


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## cooper (Jul 3, 2007)

Rennie said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I've been offered them before, captive bred in Sydney and I'm sure it was more like $500. I wouldn't even buy it for that (well, I would if they were legal, but anyway) good luck to them! :lol:


 
this was for a mellers chameleon and other rarer breeds of them, veiled chameleons are pretty cheap as they are pretty common bred over here!


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## dansfish4tea (Jul 3, 2007)

elapid68 said:


> We can keep both Freshies and Salties down here but we can't keep File snakes. go figure :shock:



How big are u aloud to keep them?

is it 2ft then u gotter give it to authoritys?


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## Obrien (Jul 3, 2007)

if a chameleon is 3 grabd how much would a monkey be and also just kinda interested how much do u think a leopard gecko would be?


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## Rennie (Jul 3, 2007)

cooper said:


> this was for a mellers chameleon and other rarer breeds of them, veiled chameleons are pretty cheap as they are pretty common bred over here!



Fair enough, yeah veiled does ring a bell.


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## Serpant_Lady (Jul 3, 2007)

Rennie said:


> In the past I've been offered corns, boas and chameleons, the latter was very tempting.



I would be tempeted too, they are facinating. What about those red-eared slider turtles found in a dam? It was on the news a little while ago and these women had smuggled them in and not have someone to sell them to so they released them.


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## Serpant_Lady (Jul 3, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I've also been told of a bloke breeding yellow and green anacondas in western Sydney.


What would you keep them in!!!!??? YOur pool??!!!


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## mcloughlin2 (Jul 3, 2007)

Obrien said:


> if a chameleon is 3 grabd how much would a monkey be and also just kinda interested how much do u think a leopard gecko would be?


 
No idea but as has been said they are illegal so it should not matter to you.


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## beesagtig (Jul 3, 2007)

OBRIEN 
You seem pretty interested! 
lol you could move into internatniol(spelling?) water and keep them there!


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## Obrien (Jul 3, 2007)

yeah i know they are illegal thats why the topic is called that lol. I am just curious as they are from what i beleive fairly common in america and uk and dont look too expensive so i was interested to know the price of illigaly shipping.


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## mcloughlin2 (Jul 3, 2007)

Obrien said:


> yeah i know they are illegal thats why the topic is called that lol. I am just curious as they are from what i beleive fairly common in america and uk and dont look too expensive so i was interested to know the price of illigaly shipping.


----------



## Hickson (Jul 3, 2007)

Obrien said:


> yeah i know they are illegal thats why the topic is called that lol. I am just curious as they are from what i beleive fairly common in america and uk and dont look too expensive so i was interested to know the price of illigaly shipping.



Obrien: that last post sounds like you are planning on smuggling things into Australia, and you're wondering what your outlay will be?



HIx


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## Reaper (Jul 3, 2007)

Obrien said:


> yeah i know they are illegal thats why the topic is called that lol. I am just curious as they are from what i beleive fairly common in america and uk and dont look too expensive so i was interested to know the price of illigaly shipping.


 
you could prob get them shipped for.......uuummmm..... $25,000 to $110,000 maybe some time behind bars...... BARGAIN!! just call national parks for a quote!!


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## Jonno from ERD (Jul 3, 2007)

m.punja said:


> I heard the general antiv-venom for tiger snakes works on a speices of cobra


 

G'day mate,

This is true. I haven't heard of Tiger antivenom neautralising any crotalid venom though, and would be very sceptical of that claim.

Cheers

Jonno


----------



## foxysnake (Jul 3, 2007)

Obrien said:


> yeah i know they are illegal thats why the topic is called that lol. I am just curious as they are from what i beleive fairly common in america and uk and dont look too expensive so i was interested to know the price of illigaly shipping.



You do realize that this being a public website anyone could read this (like for example different parks and wildlife ppls etc), not too smart a move IMO .........


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## Squamata (Jul 3, 2007)

What happens when they outgrow their fascination? They are released and then devastate our native fauna, by introducing diseases, killing them or eating them all.

I would love to own a boa, or a chameleon, but only if i lived in the country it was native to!
Too many times now we see how an exotic was released and devastated our native fauna, for gods sake havent we learn anything from the Cane Toad.

It will always be a problem, because we are human and want what we cant have, but at what cost?

Then next time a smuggler is caught, they should be packaged up the same way as the animals they smuggled in or out of our country, sent back the way they came and then lets see if they survive!!! Hope not, one less piece of scum the world and our animals have to worry about. JMPO!!!!


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Jul 3, 2007)

i know heaps of ppl with reptiles that arnt under lience it just one of those things that you can then pride yourself on having your legal. i work for a vet and many animals workers believe that what they have in place for reptile they should have the same for dogs and cats to keep track of everything that way only ppl who deserve animal will have them


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## Rennie (Jul 3, 2007)

Spikie wanna cricket said:


> i know heaps of ppl with reptiles that arnt under lience it just one of those things that you can then pride yourself on having your legal. i work for a vet and many animals workers believe that what they have in place for reptile they should have the same for dogs and cats to keep track of everything that way only ppl who deserve animal will have them



I agree, whats going to cause more environmental impact, an escaped, introduced dog or cat, or an escaped, native (at least to this country, if not the area) lizard, frog or snake?


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Its only illegal if you get caught . For all the self righteous posters; for many of you, your "right" to keep reptiles only came about because people disregarded what was law and illegally kept reptiles. Plain and simple, so after you've put away your prayer books, think about the the reality of your hobby. People didn't give a hoot about what was illegal and what wasn't 20 years ago so why would they give a hoot now? 

In the end IMO exoctics will be legalised here - its already started to happen.


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## Hickson (Jul 3, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> In the end IMO exoctics will be legalised here - its already started to happen.



What do you mean - it's already started to happen?



Hix


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## Rennie (Jul 3, 2007)

Maybe he means back before they reversed things, had the amnesty and started phasing out the exotic licences.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Rennie said:


> Maybe he means back before they reversed things, had the amnesty and started phasing out the exotic licences.


 
Yep I was refering to that. It will be impossible to stop exotics regardless of what they do, the same way they couldn't stop illegal keeping of natives. In my own case I'd just be happy to be able to keep diamonds - there exotics for us over in the west


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## Rennie (Jul 3, 2007)

I agree that they'll never be able to stop it happening but I can't see it being legalised again, I'd like to be wrong though.


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## Ramsayi (Jul 3, 2007)

They will never be legalised and I doubt very much there will ever be another amnesty.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> They will never be legalised and I doubt very much there will ever be another amnesty.


 
It will depend on how endemic in the community exotics become, if they become widespread and they wish to maintain some sort of control they will have to legalise them or have an amnesty. Laws often take time to catch up with reality


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## Ramsayi (Jul 3, 2007)

then after that they will legalise heroin etc because it is so widespread? Wont happen,not in this lifetime.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> then after that they will legalise heroin etc because it is so widespread? Wont happen,not in this lifetime.


 
That's your argument  ,that's gold  ,it proves my point entirely- there has been a lot of talk on its legalisation to control its use. 30 years ago no one would believe we'd have safe injecting rooms, but there you have it. You wouldn't be the first person to see things happen in their life time that were thought to be impossible only a few years earlier.

Oh that point you tried to make was funny - thanks for that, I thought this was going to be a dull thread. 

Look outside your box because that will end up being reality 

Stephen


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## Ramsayi (Jul 3, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> That's your argument  ,that's gold  ,it proves my point entirely- there has been a lot of talk on its legalisation to control its use. 30 years ago no one would believe we'd have safe injecting rooms, but there you have it. You wouldn't be the first person to see things happen in their life time that were thought to be impossible only a few years earlier.
> 
> Oh that point you tried to make was funny - thanks for that, I thought this was going to be a dull thread.
> 
> ...



Reality? as i wrote earlier it will never happen thats the reality.As far as heroin goes, injecting rooms are a long way away from making it legal.


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## Hickson (Jul 3, 2007)

I'm echoing Ramsayi - exotic reptiles and amphibians will never be legal. Certainly not if I have any say it, at least.



Hix


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> Reality? as i wrote earlier it will never happen thats the reality.As far as heroin goes, injecting rooms are a long way away from making it legal.


 
NPWS used to say that to us when we kept natives, good thing that none of us listened to them then - now that is reality.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 3, 2007)

Hix said:


> I'm echoing Ramsayi - exotic reptiles and amphibians will never be legal. Certainly not if I have any say it, at least.


 
You have a say, whether its effective or not will depend on how many people disagree - that's just politics


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## lizard_lover (Jul 3, 2007)

in australia we can only have native reptiles any others are illigal


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## Ramsayi (Jul 3, 2007)

Tell ya what stencorp.When it happens come back and tell me I told you so ok.

Until then all the talk in the world won't change it.


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## Hickson (Jul 4, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> NPWS used to say that to us when we kept natives, good thing that none of us listened to them then - now that is reality.



Keeping natives is a state thing, it's regulated and administered by the different states.

The ban on exotics is a Federal Law. And in Canberra, they don't see what goes on in the regions.

It's not up to NPWS, it's DEW you have to convince. And goodluck with that.

And it's not how many people disagree with me - it's who I can bring around to my way of thinking.



Hix


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## Parko (Jul 4, 2007)

lizard_lover said:


> in australia we can only have native reptiles any others are illigal



I'm just glad somebody cleared that up for us.

Whether exotic reptiles will become legal or not depends mostly on the future.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 4, 2007)

Hix said:


> Keeping natives is a state thing, it's regulated and administered by the different states.
> 
> The ban on exotics is a Federal Law. And in Canberra, they don't see what goes on in the regions.
> 
> It's not up to NPWS, it's DEW you have to convince. And goodluck with that.


 
I'm not arguing on who has to be convinced, I'm sure you'd be hard pressed importing a European Fox if you wanted to but they are so widespread in the country that if you kept one as a pet no one would bother stopping you, same with an Asian house gecko. My point is that if exotics become so widespread (and my guess is they will as more natives become mainstream pets) they'll become legal by stealth - government departments won't be able to afford to monitor it.

Ramsayi, I love your point , "_Tell ya what stencorp.When it happens come back and tell me I told you so ok_" you are incredibly skilled at getting a point across


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## coxy (Jul 4, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> then after that they will legalise heroin etc because it is so widespread? Wont happen,not in this lifetime.


 Haha I was about to post the exact same thing, 



stencorp69 said:


> they'll become legal by stealth - government departments won't be able to afford to monitor it.


Yeah and then the government can spend even more money on monitoring that the exotics arn't escaping and controlling them if they do escape , because controlling the feral animals in the country doesn't cost that much already


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## gold&black... (Jul 4, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> I'm sure you'd be hard pressed importing a European Fox if you wanted to but they are so widespread in the country that if you kept one as a pet no one would bother stopping you, same with an Asian house gecko.



Would have to agree with u but the difference here is, those animals are now in the wild and the government is doing everything in it's power to prevent them spreading and the exotics though not native are still only in private collections and not in the wild...... Don't see anyone going through the trouble of trying to introduce them in the wild just so they breed to the extent that the government legalizes them......


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## Retic (Jul 4, 2007)

My gut feeling is they wont be legalised anytime soon as the head in the sand method seems to be an adequate method of controlling the issue.


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## beesagtig (Jul 4, 2007)

So are you allowed to keep Asian House Geckos then?


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## BIG RYANO (Jul 4, 2007)

Serpant_Lady said:


> What would you keep them in!!!!??? YOur pool??!!!


Their kept in bedrooms. He actually bought the green ones off a copper.


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## Retic (Jul 4, 2007)

I keep 100's of them.
I would imagine the official line would be that we shouldn't keep them in a cage and why would you anyway but I wouldn't think they would care if you did.


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## Frozenmouse (Jul 6, 2007)

Mc Alpines zoo offered a heap of monkeys for private sale when they closed back in 1996 they had lion tamarins and black capped capucaians ect mainly small ones .
There are quite a few monkeys in private colections in northern aus i know of one that was taken from an indo fishing boat.


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## natrix (Jul 28, 2007)

*illegal exotic vens*

There's a really informative article in 'Reptiles Australia' mag --vol 3 ,issue 3---about exotics
found in Aus . One astonishing part was about a guy that bought a "baby Carpet snake" from a
guy in a NSW pub , kept it at home in a fish tank with no probs , only to be informed later that
it was actually a Russell's Viper by staff at Taronga Zoo.
Yet another guy turned up at a Syd hospital with an African puff adder bite ; interesting article.


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## Serpentes_15 (Jul 30, 2007)

I just remind myself of the market i would be supporting if i took part in the illegal trade of animals. I bet the mother tiger had to be killed to get those cubs. Personally it makes me sick but thats just my own (non accusative of anyone in particular) opinion.


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## crush the turtle (Jul 30, 2007)

i no someone with a red tailed boa, witch was bread in melb


(English translation: I know someone who owns a Red Tailed Boa that was bred in Melbourne.)


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## m.punja (Jul 30, 2007)

natrix said:


> One astonishing part was about a guy that bought a "baby Carpet snake" from a guy in a NSW pub , kept it at home in a fish tank with no probs , only to be informed later that it was actually a Russell's Viper by staff at Taronga Zoo.
> Yet another guy turned up at a Syd hospital with an African puff adder bite ; interesting article.


 
That would be bit of a shock. Did he cop a bite or find out before? (the bloke with the Rusell's that is :lol


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## crush the turtle (Jul 30, 2007)

lol thanks greebo


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## JJS. (Jul 31, 2007)

Anyone who wants exotics to be legalised is selfish. Whether they are here or not already, makes no difference. If they were legalised, sure you may think that you wont do the wrong thing, but the fact is that ANYONE would be able to keep them. We have the greatest selection of native reptiles found nowhere else in the world. Look at countries that allow the keeping of exotics (america) and what the exotics have done to their native wildlife. To legalise exotics would be absolute stupidity, we should learn from history. For those who want exotics to be legalised, do you actually care about our native fauna? I guess that's what seperates those with a genuine interest in herps and wildlife, and those who just want something because THEY want it. For the latter, get something other than an animal, people will still think you are cool.


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## stencorp69 (Jul 31, 2007)

JJS. said:


> Anyone who wants exotics to be legalised is selfish.


 
Why - If you live in Vic and want to keep a jungle python you are essentially keeping an exotic. I can’t see what difference it would make if you want to keep retics provided quarantine procedures have been met. A Jungle Python could possibly survive in NW Victoria in the wild, but I'm not sure a retic would.


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## mcloughlin2 (Jul 31, 2007)

No. Thats incorrect. An exotic is any animal that is not found naturally in Australia. Since jungle pythons are found in OZ they are not considered exotic to one particular state. Also I'm willing to bet a fair bit of money that a retic could survive in VIC. A bet there are alot of people that would back me on that.

The problem with exotics being kept is idiotic people release them. Now thats where the problem lies. Mistakes have been made in the past regarding exotics. Just to name a few, cane toads, asian house geckos and carp.

Now if there were not so many idiots around there wouldn't be a problem as they wouldn't pose a problem if they were kept in cages but when release they compete with our native animals for food and habitat.


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## Serpentes_15 (Aug 1, 2007)

JJS. said:


> Anyone who wants exotics to be legalised is selfish. Whether they are here or not already, makes no difference. If they were legalised, sure you may think that you wont do the wrong thing, but the fact is that ANYONE would be able to keep them. We have the greatest selection of native reptiles found nowhere else in the world. Look at countries that allow the keeping of exotics (america) and what the exotics have done to their native wildlife. To legalise exotics would be absolute stupidity, we should learn from history. For those who want exotics to be legalised, do you actually care about our native fauna? I guess that's what seperates those with a genuine interest in herps and wildlife, and those who just want something because THEY want it. For the latter, get something other than an animal, people will still think you are cool.


 
As much as i would love to have exotics i agree with you 100%. Those that cannot see past their own selfishness and realise that not only is it a part of the smuggling trade but is potentially devastating to the Aussie ecosystems obviously does not know very much about herpetology. I'm new to the subject and even i know this. If you know and you dont care most ppl would agree with me that your pretty narrow minded.


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## stencorp69 (Aug 1, 2007)

Serpentes_15 said:


> As much as i would love to have exotics i agree with you 100%. Those that cannot see past their own selfishness and realise that not only is it a part of the smuggling trade but is potentially devastating to the Aussie ecosystems obviously does not know very much about herpetology. I'm new to the subject and even i know this. If you know and you dont care most ppl would agree with me that your pretty narrow minded.


 
?? I think your "newness” to the subject has muddled your mind. Having an opinion to legalise exotics isn't really a good marker to evaluating someone’s knowledge of herpetology. The most knowledgeable herp minds in the country work with exotics


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## stencorp69 (Aug 1, 2007)

mcloughlin2 said:


> No. Thats incorrect. An exotic is any animal that is not found naturally in Australia. Since jungle pythons are found in OZ they are not considered exotic to one particular state. Also I'm willing to bet a fair bit of money that a retic could survive in VIC. A bet there are alot of people that would back me on that.


 
_Leiopython albertisi_ is found is Australia, would you think that was OK to keep in Vic? and if so would'nt that have just as big an impact as an exoctic if released in to the wild in an area where they aren't locally found. It wouldn't be any different to keeping a *Boelen's Python* in Vic.

In WA we have introduced Kookaburra and Rosella they aren't exotic to Australa to the local environment, but they have made a big impact to the environment they have been released into. If you stand by an arguement that the keeping of reptiles that aren't found in your local area is OK, then your argument about not being able to keep exotics because they have a potential to impact the environment is a little hollow.


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## Serpentes_15 (Aug 1, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> ?? I think your "newness” to the subject has muddled your mind. Having an opinion to legalise exotics isn't really a good marker to evaluating someone’s knowledge of herpetology. The most knowledgeable herp minds in the country work with exotics


 
My appologies. That opinion has nothing to do with ones knowledge of herpetology and i take back that statement. The point i'm trying to emphasise is that those who do not realise the risks that exotics pose upon our native fauna, their knowledge is (in most cases) more associated with herpetology as a hobby rather than knowledge in its ecololgy. I would hate to endanger any of our native wildlife as would most Australians. Thats why quarantine is set in place. They thought the Cane toad would be an answer for the bugs eating the sugar cane. They were the experts then and now look at the cane toad. It threatens Kakadu national park and outcompetes the native amphibians. I'm no expert myself, nor am i an environmenalist extremist, but you ask anyone with any knowledge in ecology and they'll varify the threats exotics pose on our wildlife. Sorry if iv'e offended anyone in their opinions for legalising a potential Cane toad. Who know's maybe we'll be lucky next time and it will all be ok.. 

.........Anyone in the Melbourne area have 1x female + 1x Male Juvie EWD's. PM me


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## PhilK (Aug 1, 2007)

JJS. said:


> Whether they are here or not already, makes no difference ... Look at countries that allow the keeping of exotics (america) and what the exotics have done to their native wildlife.


 
That's a contradiction. If they're already here then they have the same oportunity to bugger our wildlife up as they would if they were legalised. The snakes don't know they're illegal. Making them legal, and having them here illegally can _both_ potentially damage our wildlife. Just thought I'd point that out.

I reckon they shouldn't be legalised (except, obviously for zoos etc) and they should be cracked down on. Hard. It's not hard for us to purchase them if we want to, so why can't the EPA find them? Resources?


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## Serpentes_15 (Aug 1, 2007)

bye the bye i never stated that the opinion of legalising exotics marks poor knowledge. i said that "not only is it a part of the smuggling trade but is potentially devastating to the Aussie ecosystems" and that anyone who does not realise this "obviously does not know very much about herpetology". Only if you did not know this, is your knowledge of herps poor.


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## wood_nymph (Aug 2, 2007)

i know a few people that have camelians


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## Hickson (Aug 2, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> I'm not arguing on who has to be convinced, I'm sure you'd be hard pressed importing a European Fox if you wanted to but they are so widespread in the country that if you kept one as a pet no one would bother stopping you



Red Foxes are a prohibited species under the EPBC Act. They might not bother tjo stop you, but technically, you would be breaking a Federal Law. 



Hix


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## euan (Aug 2, 2007)

It never ceases to amaze me the number of false thoughts and comments that occur on such discussions.
I would suggest that some of the people research their thoughts before commenting. How many people on this thread have a REAL understanding of the implications of legalising exotics, or feral spp presently in Australia etc...
The vast majority of pest spp in australia were introduced by Acclimatisation Societies and the Government.
By looking at History one is supposed to learn and make more informed opinions, not stick their head in the sand and sprout unfounded thoughts and or fears.
I see time and time again people just making shotgun comments which are plain laughable.
Oh by the way the person who made mention of Asian House Geckos might like to know that they were self introduced from cargo carriers. They were not intentionally released. That is a scenario that will never stop unless the world economy is destroyed. 
I wonder if the same people would be as passionate and up in arms about wacky tabaca  or any of the other illegal activities that large portions of the population routinely ignore 
Not being incitive rather hoping that people would be more informed before jumping to conclusions etc...


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## JKretzs613 (Aug 3, 2007)

*Hello*

Hello,

So any species that is NOT native to Australia, is illegal to own, technically, is that correct?
Just making sure I got that right.
I agree, while I don't live in Australia, but the US, look at the problems we are having with the bearded dragons over here & Adenovirus. It is because the breeders over here have gotten greedy & selfish. They have not properly quarantined before breeding, etc. I know that is not quite the same thing as importing illegally, but, if people do bring dragons into the country, they need to quarantine first. It is legal to own them here just like in Australia.
I do have a question. Does anyone know of a legitimate breeder of Pogona Barbatas? The US had some in the 1980's when they were allowing importation from Australia, but, apparently they either didn't breed enough of them, or they killed them. Their husbandry is different than the vitticeps is. Now, everyone wants color. I know there is Barbata stock in the UK, & it is legal to import from Europe & the UK, so, I have just been trying to find legitimate breeders. 
If anyone can help me, let me know! Thanks!

Tracie


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