# Morphs



## Jaxon (Jan 25, 2018)

hey guys wondering if anyone has seen or have photos of angle headed dragons or Boyd’s forest dragons with a colour morph? Or any sort of morph?


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## Wally (Jan 25, 2018)

No.

I'd like to think their requirements are exclusive enough.


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## Scutellatus (Jan 25, 2018)

Jaxon said:


> hey guys wondering if anyone has seen or have photos of angle headed dragons or Boyd’s forest dragons with a colour morph? Or any sort of morph?


I think because of their laying numbers it would be a massive task to selectively breed them. Hopefully it never happens. They are awesome as they are!


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## Jaxon (Jan 25, 2018)

Everything is awesome the way they are but it’s a hobby breeding that’s why we breed for morphs. Why would you not want morphs for them?


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## Scutellatus (Jan 25, 2018)

Jaxon said:


> Everything is awesome the way they are but it’s a hobby breeding that’s why we breed for morphs. Why would you not want morphs for them?


Because breeding for morphs only leads down the path of animals that are generally weaker than the wild type. People take it too far and you have things like silkback beardies. Clearly people not in it for the animals welfare but rather fame and fortune.


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## Wally (Jan 25, 2018)

Zuckerworld has this type of thing covered.....


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 25, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> Clearly people not in it for the animals welfare but rather fame and fortune.



Pull that knife out. Bit harsh


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## Wally (Jan 25, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Pull that knife out. Bit harsh



Not so sure Paul. Have a look a silk back beardies on the net and you may change your mind.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 26, 2018)

I agree that silk backs went too far Wally but the statement I quoted was aimed at morph breeders. Not just at those involved in that disaster.
Good job I have a thick skin is all I can say. If I relied on the money I made from breeding snakes in the last 30 years I would be dead in a gutter somewhere. My job provides the income so that I can spend money on the 2 passions I have in life.


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## Wally (Jan 26, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I agree that silk backs went too far Wally but the statement I quoted was aimed at morph breeders. Not just at those involved in that disaster.
> Good job I have a thick skin is all I can say. If I relied on the money I made from breeding snakes in the last 30 years I would be dead in a gutter somewhere. My job provides the income so that I can spend money on the 2 passions I have in life.



Fair call.

It's a tight line though. Plenty of people in the hobby want to do what no one else has. The driving thought behind that is not what's right or wrong but merely where's the cash.

Don't take it personally. I think you're one of the good guys.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 26, 2018)

Wally said:


> Don't take it personally. I think you're one of the good guys.



Thanks for that Wally I really do appreciate it.

People need to realise that breeding morphs isn't all bad. Almost every animal in captive collections around Oz is line bred. (Unless you own wild caught animals)
Most morph breeding is simply about bringing out a trait that is unique/different/special/pretty/ascetic. Without morph breeders what would happen to all the animals in the bush that are 'different'? They would be poached into someones collection in order to feed that desire of mankind to have something that no one else has.
Most morph breeders would pull the pin on anything that put the animals at risk, I know I certainly would.
I despise cross breeding, poaching, exotics but blasé comments that are made such as the one above (which was made with no intent of malice, of that I have no doubt) put all morph breeders in the same basket when its simply unjust to do so.


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## Scutellatus (Jan 26, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Pull that knife out. Bit harsh


It definitely wasn't said with you in mind Paul or anyone in particular for that matter.
I believe you have enough of a standard that if the animals you are breeding were suffering any detriment that you wouldn't continue the breeding just to see what you could get next. Unfortunately there are many people out there with the complete opposite attitude.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 26, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> It definitely wasn't said with you in mind Paul or anyone in particular for that matter.



I get that mate. It just that the continued bashing of morph breeders in general is starting to wear a bit thin with me. (Maybe I'm growing a bit sensitive in my old age lol).
If we continue to use the term to identify the bad things in the hobby it also tarnishes some of the good. Newbies to the hobby get the sense from day 1 that all morphs are bad.
How many of our regular contributors have albino's for example.....are they not a morph. And certainly one that in the wild would struggle to survive. Yet hobbyists across the globe seek them out because they are different. (One thing I have never had in my collection to date is an Albino would you believe)


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## Jaxon (Jan 26, 2018)

ill just take it that no morphs have been discovered yet for angle headeds and Boyd’s. always someone on the internet to take it in a negative way and try and bring “morph breeders” down. 
Was a simple honest question


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## Wally (Jan 26, 2018)

Jaxon said:


> ill just take it that no morphs have been discovered yet for angle headeds and Boyd’s. always someone on the internet to take it in a negative way and try and bring “morph breeders” down.
> Was a simple honest question



My original post had nothing to do with bringing "morph breeders" down. Something that up until recently I was a participant in.

I am however intrigued as to what types of 'morphs' you think could be achieved out of these two and why.


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## Scutellatus (Jan 26, 2018)

Jaxon said:


> ill just take it that no morphs have been discovered yet for angle headeds and Boyd’s. always someone on the internet to take it in a negative way and try and bring “morph breeders” down.
> Was a simple honest question


Hang on a second buddy. You asked a question and I among other people gave you a simple honest answer. You are the one who has taken my answer in a negative way, not the other way around. Nothing I said was to bring morph breeders down as you say. I am okay with morph breeders to an extent, as long as there is no detriment to the animals. I prefer pure wild-type animals but each to their own.


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## SpottedPythons (Jan 26, 2018)

None of us here on this thread mean any offence - it's just that you have to understand that many of them have been breeding and keeping their animals for years, and it's their passion. When a new member asks about morphs in the less commonly kept dragons, they will probably assume (sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly) that you are trying to make money or want to acquire a "showoff" animal. None of this was written to apply specifically to you, by the way. It's just that we all care a lot for our animals, and sometimes new keepers who want the cash will inbreed and crossbreed a perfectly good animal till it's got genetic flaws, such as the Jaguar gene. Morphs are not a bad thing, and I personally like most of them - but for example the Silkback was just taken too far. We do not want a repeat of that, and naturally the Boyd's and the angle headeds already have fairly advanced requirements and if morphs that require extra care appear amongst them, some people who are in it for the money will buy them and not be able to care for them. Hope you understand.


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## Jaxon (Jan 28, 2018)

Wally said:


> My original post had nothing to do with bringing "morph breeders" down. Something that up until recently I was a participant in.
> 
> I am however intrigued as to what types of 'morphs' you think could be achieved out of these two and why.



Albino,hypo, melanistic. There’s no reason some one out there couldn’t of produced one


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Jan 28, 2018)

Morph seems to be a strong word that rightly or wrongly triggers people if you had asked if there are any different colour phases or locality colours you would of gotten a different response. fyi @Jaxon 2 of the traits you have mentioned arent morphs, hypo and melanistic are generally polygenic (line breeding the 2 most hypo/melanistic animals together to enhance the colour/pigment or lack of
).


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## Wally (Jan 28, 2018)

Jaxon said:


> Albino,hypo, melanistic. There’s no reason some one out there couldn’t of produced one



If someone has I doubt anyone could afford one without an enquiry to their bank about finance.


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## Jaxon (Jan 29, 2018)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> Morph seems to be a strong word that rightly or wrongly triggers people if you had asked if there are any different colour phases or locality colours you would of gotten a different response. fyi @Jaxon 2 of the traits you have mentioned arent morphs, hypo and melanistic are generally polygenic (line breeding the 2 most hypo/melanistic animals together to enhance the colour/pigment or lack of
> ).



Line breeding for darker or lighter colours is not true melanistic or hypo


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