# Green Iguana?



## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

Are they allowed in Australia?


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## grimbeny (Mar 11, 2007)

Nope, they r non native to australia and therefore not allowed to be kept


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## PremierPythons (Mar 11, 2007)

*Bangs head on keyboard*.. dlshgsdlo82oi ghb fdssiweougnw[owqb


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## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

Bugger! I really want one! Might get a Lace monitor eventually.


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## moosenoose (Mar 11, 2007)

DragonKeeper said:


> Bugger! I really want one! Might get a Lace monitor eventually.




Don't worry about the Lacie, just get a komodo!


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## Chrisreptile (Mar 11, 2007)

DragonKeeper said:


> Are they allowed in Australia?



nope.


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## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

I have a feeling when I am older (I'm only 15 now) I will have two houses one for me and one for my lizards... I would spend most of my time in the lizard house though 

Anyone know a really really big, colorful (orange, green) native aussie lizard?


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## cyclamen (Mar 11, 2007)

LOL thats the funniest question i have read today


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## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

Well I figured Aussie herps are available as pets all over the world, yet we can't get herps from any other country... What a rip!


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## grimbeny (Mar 11, 2007)

Its for a pretty good reason.


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## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

Whats that?


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## cyclamen (Mar 11, 2007)

we hav a lot of beutiful species here in australia. enjoy them


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## DragonKeeper (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeah but most of them are plain colours. monitors, goannas, Bluetounges, they are all plain coloured none of them come even close to the beautiful colors of Iguanas or the Eastern Collared Lizard.

I mean look at these photos:


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## Timotei (Mar 11, 2007)

Chanty79 said:


> *Bangs head on keyboard*.. dlshgsdlo82oi ghb fdssiweougnw[owqb



Ditto. How many times must this question be asked ? I'd wager there are several threads a week, each one inquiring into chameleons or iguanas or some other exotic asking if we can keep them. Then they make a big fuss cos they can't. Just be happy with the herps we have here!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cyclamen (Mar 11, 2007)

we hav gorgeous coloured animals. look at your boyds rainforest dragons, high yellow and orange coloured beardies. we hav a great selection here in australia. sure there are nice exotics. but no point worrying about something you will never be able to change.


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## MrSpike (Mar 11, 2007)

Looks like something PK posted a while back. You get some pretty hot beardies over here. Only time will reveal the colours there will be. I'm working with a few different bloodlines at the moment to produce some special ones.

Get a leaf tailed gecko (S.swaini) there green.

Kane


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## Timotei (Mar 11, 2007)

Btw Dragonkeeper, are u telling me u dont find our herps here attractive ? I'd say u havnt seen enuf. Besides, herps are not here for our entertainment - that has been my single most-repeated phrase on reptile forums around the world in the last 6 months. Everyone wants a big pretty animal thats different to everything else around them. Then once theyve got that, they hav 2 go buy another even bigger and more brightly coloured herp. They're not friggin collectables ok ??

U can enjoy herps without OWNING them!!!


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## MrSpike (Mar 11, 2007)

melgalea said:


> we hav gorgeous coloured animals. look at your boyds rainforest dragons, high yellow and orange coloured beardies. we hav a great selection here in australia. sure there are nice exotics. but no point worrying about something you will never be able to change.



You sure about that, I know a few member's on here, including myself who are pretty confident that something will have to be done eventually regarding the keeping of exotics on license in Australia.

Only time will prove either side of the discussion to be right, for the moment, your side is in the lead.

Kane


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## grimbeny (Mar 11, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> You sure about that, I know a few member's on here, including myself who are pretty confident that something will have to be done eventually regarding the keeping of exotics on license in Australia.


 
Im pretty sure it will never be ok to keep exotics on licence. Their is just no reason to risk the native fauna for the sake of someone having a nicer looking feature in their bedroom.


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## Timotei (Mar 11, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> You sure about that, I know a few member's on here, including myself who are pretty confident that something will have to be done eventually regarding the keeping of exotics on license in Australia.
> 
> Only time will prove either side of the discussion to be right, for the moment, your side is in the lead.
> 
> Kane



Dear God NOOO!!!

Everyone fighting for the introduction of exotics to australia is off their rocker!!!

Australia is one of the FEW countries that has not been completely overrun by exotics! The people campaigning for it are campaigning the identity of Australia away! The problem is that everyone looks at places lyk USA and the UK and says "they've got exotics, they're ok" do u hav any idea how FRAGILE australian ecology really is ?? The specialisation of the fauna and flora of Australia is so major, that the introduction of exotics would obliterate them completely. All u need to do is introduce any similar organism of greater tolerance to abiotic and biotic factors and bang, u've got a pest.

All the pro-exotic ppl shld be put on a ship and shipped 2 somewhere else, where their ecology has already been destroyed.


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## MrSpike (Mar 11, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> Im pretty sure it will never be ok to keep exotics on licence. Their is just no reason to risk the native fauna for the sake of someone having a nicer looking feature in their bedroom.



It has nothing to do with what people want, it's got to do with what people already have. My guess, is that at least around 30% of member's on here keep exotics. There are just as many exotic reptiles being kept illegally as there are natives on license. Something will HAVE to be done to control the amount of exotics in Australia. Look at the system now, how many people are busted? maybe around once every 2 weeks? And there are probably 20 new people keeping exotics every week.

Just my observations.

Kane


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## Timotei (Mar 11, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> It has nothing to do with what people want, it's got to do with what people already have. My guess, is that at least around 30% of member's on here keep exotics. There are just as many exotic reptiles being kept illegally as there are natives on license. Something will HAVE to be done to control the amount of exotics in Australia. Look at the system now, how many people are busted? maybe around once every 2 weeks? And there are probably 20 new people keeping exotics every week.



I think ull find those "observations" are a bit off. There are nowhere NEAR just as many exotics as natives being kept. That's just ridiculous. 30% is also far off. Even 10% is a push. Besides, just because people are neglecting the laws, doesnt mean the government is going to cave.

Where'd u get those stats anyway ? I doubt illegal keepers are going to be sticking their hands up in surveys.


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## Retic (Mar 11, 2007)

It is a shame, Green Iguanas are easily my favourite lizard and make the best pet. We have had several over the years, one of which was close to 6 feet long and like a puppy. We trained one to go back into it's cage to defaecate.


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## Hawk (Mar 11, 2007)

Move to the US and you can pretty much keep whatever you want


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## jamesr (Mar 11, 2007)

DragonKeeper said:


> I have a feeling when I am older (I'm only 15 now) I will have two houses one for me and one for my lizards... I would spend most of my time in the lizard house though
> 
> Anyone know a really really big, colorful (orange, green) native aussie lizard?


im only 14 but i no this 'q' off my hart sense none in australia
we cant risk people releasing them into the wild and killing our natives also we have colour full lizards like-(high orange beardies and lacies arnt really color full but they have nice patterns)i think thats the thing with aussie lizards they just have good patterns not colours (most!) but then we have great snakes like gtp for example and i dont think that other countries have snakes like ours    
</IMG>


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## cma_369 (Mar 11, 2007)

Hey why not get one of these little critters if you want cool colouring:






Probably heaps rare in australian collections i cant wait till im 18 (hopefully there will be some around.)
And dont you say its exotic cause it is wild here, anyone know what it is and where its from and any breeeders. Ever since i came across these on the net at school i want one bad:cry:


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## Zanejb (Mar 11, 2007)

the reason most of our native herps are more plain is because they are in a harsh country. think about it most of our colourfull herps are found in the tropics of north queensland (refering to gren tree pythons and black and gold jungles although their found further down the coast too but you get the picture). Thats not to say we dont have already some colourful herps more readily found just look at the different beardies, water dragons, geckos and what about the Bredli there are some fantastic reds and hypos that are really nice. dont be fooled by exotic species our own native faurna is in a class of its own and we should respect this decision to ban exotics. Think of the exotic deseases we could introduce it wouldnt be safe for our captive and wild animals out there. If a vote ever came for exotics despite how good they are guys the best thing to do would be to vote NO!!!!!!!


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## jamesr (Mar 11, 2007)

Timotei said:


> Dear God NOOO!!!
> 
> Everyone fighting for the introduction of exotics to australia is off their rocker!!!
> 
> ...


i agree so soooo much   
but i think you can keep exoitcs some how like how do the zoos do it and yeh i dont think that theres that many people that have exotics and not soupsed 2 but i guess theres a few but i think ok 2 keep exotics aslong as u dont relase them and there not deased but if we get rules like that no1s gonna follow them so too bad


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## Lozza (Mar 11, 2007)

emerald monitors are beautiful  wish I could have one


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## cma_369 (Mar 11, 2007)

We can have em in nsw on 2nd class. Dunno where id be able to track one down when i get to that stage though.


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## Retic (Mar 11, 2007)

What I don't get about this whole argument and I am not getting into the legal/illegal part of it all but why aren't people even allowed to even say an exotic is beautiful without others jumping up and down telling us our animals are the best and there is nothing that compares ? Believe it or not the whole world has amazing animals, my favourite region is South America, I am a huge boa/iguana fan but that apparently makes me a bad man and I should be shipped out of the country LOL. 
Appreciate what we have by all means but don't condemn others for seeing beauty in other animals. It is a sign of insecurity.


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## Zanejb (Mar 11, 2007)

I agree with you boa, there are lots of fantastic exotic species and its fine to say how much you love them and how much youd love to own one and i will admit im the same. Im not saying people should go move to other countries or whatever for wanting exotics. I have the same issues without exotics for example state licensing. I see an animal for sale on the net so i check it out in my books and think i wouldnt mind one and find out that i cant keep it in vic and it sucks but ive learnt that its not always what we want that matters although i scratch my head at times and think why do NSW get to keep this animal and i cant here in Vic.


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## jamesr (Mar 11, 2007)

boa said:


> What I don't get about this whole argument and I am not getting into the legal/illegal part of it all but why aren't people even allowed to even say an exotic is beautiful without others jumping up and down telling us our animals are the best and there is nothing that compares ? Believe it or not the whole world has amazing animals, my favourite region is South America, I am a huge boa/iguana fan but that apparently makes me a bad man and I should be shipped out of the country LOL.
> Appreciate what we have by all means but don't condemn others for seeing beauty in other animals. It is a sign of insecurity.


ull prob call me a hiprocript but thats true i guess its just that we cant have them cause it will kill the rest and if you really love australias reptiles then you wont have exotices (well usless you have a lince if u can get one) because there **CAN** be sideeffects
thanks for poiting that out boa lol  
</IMG>


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## Retic (Mar 11, 2007)

James, I am not being personal here but is there any way you can use a spellchecker as your posts are very difficult to follow. Just a friendly suggestion.


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## Zanejb (Mar 11, 2007)

there is a license you can purchase to get exotics (the license that zoos get) but you need to have a genuin purpose for wanting the animals (studies, isolated breeding collony, zoos and parks etc) but as far as i know its really difficult to get and costs a hell of alot.


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## Lozza (Mar 11, 2007)

jamesr said:


> ull prob call me a hiprocript but thats true i guess its just that we cant have them cause it will kill the rest and if you really love australias reptiles then you wont have exotices (well usless you have a lince if u can get one) because there **CAN** be sideeffects
> thanks for poiting that out boa lol
> </IMG>


 
There is a difference between liking something and wanting something.


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## moosenoose (Mar 11, 2007)

We're killing our own native animals at the rate of knots anyway, and certainly a hell of a lot faster than any exotic species of herp will. We've introduced cats and foxes an toads and bunch of other horrors, why worry about a few more :lol: The bloody things are already in the country by the shipload anyway- get it legislated properly and take the "black" aspect out of an already existent and flourishing market! We're all dancing around and waving our hands trying to stop something that's already here...silly!


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## Retic (Mar 11, 2007)

VERY well said, you hit the nail right on the head.


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## MrSpike (Mar 11, 2007)

Seriously, if you think there are next to none exotic reptiles in Australia you are an idiot. Go to a pet shop, any pet shop, and try to find an exotic breeder you will, may not be the 1st pet shop but there are pet shops that have exotics sitting in tubs out the back.

I don't see the problem with keeping exotics on or off license, seriously. You think that as soon as exotics are made legal automatically there will be thousands destroying our habitat. If anything this will help stop them going into the wild, because instead of someone releasing it because they can't look after it, they will post it in the for sale forum, or give it to there mate.

Didn't mean to offend anyone with this post, but some people really need to pull there heads out of there bum's and sniff the real world.

Kane


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## cement (Mar 11, 2007)

Zoo's with really good attitudes towards the animals welfare are a great place to go and check out exotic animals wether there herps or mammalsor whatever. As a member of AHS i get free admission to The Reptile Park at Somersby, so i just call in there to check out these sort of things. You can stay 20mins or a full day. Any day you want. Its perfect. Speak to some knowledgable ppl. You know what an escaped exotic is called? FERAL. we all know how detrimental ferals can be. Don't be selfish or greedy, find the good in what we've got and protect it. Aussie animals are easily as amazing as you'll find anywhere. This country has pretty well every type of country there is from snow to desert, lets take good care of her.


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## SlothHead (Mar 11, 2007)

Not meaning to burst he legality bubble on the thread, but it is LEGAL, i say again LEGAL to bring in "exotic" reptiles to australia. Obviously there is certain restrictions to what you are brining in, you dont even need to be a zoo. 

Just as it is legal to send our animals over seas. From what i understand though, it is a paperwork nightmare, and costs a bit as well. Then there is a whole suite of protocols in place regarding quarantine etc etc. So it can cost a considerable amount once you start factoring all those things in. 

Furthermore, something which i found mildly amusing in my own sick way is that you have to pay a fee to lodge the application, something to the tune of $150-250 depending on the animal. But this doesnt gaurantee anything and it can still be revoked. 

The guy from ACT environment was saying that he has put in about 10-12 in his time and has only seen about 4-5 actually go through.

So in short it can be done. But have fun doing it

D


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## SlothHead (Mar 11, 2007)

i do have the link around somewhere if someone is keen to read it through the information on it.


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## MrSpike (Mar 11, 2007)

SlothHead said:


> i do have the link around somewhere if someone is keen to read it through the information on it.



PM it to me please.

Kane


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## SlothHead (Mar 11, 2007)

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/trade-use/permits/index.html

have a gander. 

i am pretty sure that is the right one. It is the one the guy at Environment ACT sent me 

Have fun with that


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## Adam (Mar 11, 2007)

Get some Frill necks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Timotei (Mar 11, 2007)

boa said:


> What I don't get about this whole argument and I am not getting into the legal/illegal part of it all but why aren't people even allowed to even say an exotic is beautiful without others jumping up and down telling us our animals are the best and there is nothing that compares ? Believe it or not the whole world has amazing animals, my favourite region is South America, I am a huge boa/iguana fan but that apparently makes me a bad man and I should be shipped out of the country LOL.
> Appreciate what we have by all means but don't condemn others for seeing beauty in other animals. It is a sign of insecurity.



Umm, i think u missed my point. I didn't say that everyone who wants exotics shld be shipped off for crying out loud grow up a bit. Of course I want my fair share of exotics, but the point is I respect our ecology enuf to make a sacrifice.



moosenoose said:


> We're killing our own native animals at the rate of knots anyway, and certainly a hell of a lot faster than any exotic species of herp will. We've introduced cats and foxes an toads and bunch of other horrors, why worry about a few more :lol: The bloody things are already in the country by the shipload anyway- get it legislated properly and take the "black" aspect out of an already existent and flourishing market! We're all dancing around and waving our hands trying to stop something that's already here...silly!



Wow, wat an inspirational attitude u have. It's going to happen anyways, so let's just give up. U no wat, the human race is going to breed to overpopulation and become extinct anyway so we shld just all kill ourselves now.



MrSpike said:


> Seriously, if you think there are next to none exotic reptiles in Australia you are an idiot. Go to a pet shop, any pet shop, and try to find an exotic breeder you will, may not be the 1st pet shop but there are pet shops that have exotics sitting in tubs out the back.
> 
> I don't see the problem with keeping exotics on or off license, seriously. You think that as soon as exotics are made legal automatically there will be thousands destroying our habitat. If anything this will help stop them going into the wild, because instead of someone releasing it because they can't look after it, they will post it in the for sale forum, or give it to there mate.
> 
> ...


 
Haha, "dont mean to offend anyone, but u suck!" lol, some ppl need to learn that the use of "no offence" does not put a shield around u making u able to take stabs at anyone u lyk.

I'm sorry 2 say it Kane, but ur logic is way off. My point is that there is a market for exotics (this is the problem), but at the moment, its a black market. Legalising exotics will cause an incredible flood of exotics into the country, not only stealing away Australia's unique pet herp image, but also increasing the number of escapes and idiot keepers who don't keep herps properly. 

To say that the introduction of exotics will decrease the occurrence of exotics in the wild is pure idiocy. Nuff said.


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## cement (Mar 12, 2007)

Had a look at site. Found info on Reticulated and burmese, But thats only if going to a secure site iguess there is strict rules here. I couldn't find anything that would make me think I could as a herp hobbyist import say, a Iguana


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 12, 2007)

do water colors harm our drab native species


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## Zanejb (Mar 12, 2007)

I think we should just settle on the fact that there is enough native wildlife for us to involve ourselves with and that our animals should be enough despite whether or not you like an exotic there is still some fantastic animals in australia and to the contrary of what people beleive there isnt that many exotic species in australia (by not that many i mean there is still a alot but not as much as you think) to a post made earlier pet stores dont have exotics stashed out the back. ive worked in enough to know that. We should be thankfull for the animals we have and i agree with timoei, legalising wont help the pet trade itll just make it worse. We already have trouble with cross bred carpets and escaped pets and the same will happen with exotic species and this will ruin the native wildlife. We always think there will be no harm in doin things but look at foxes, rabbits and the cain toad on all these occasions we felt there was no harm well im sorry but we should keep exotics on the so called "black" stages of developement as i feel only the most keen keeper will obtain one and hence will look after it and not have it cross bred with native species or have it escape.


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## Timotei (Mar 12, 2007)

Absolutely.


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## HerpsinIN (Mar 12, 2007)

As a person from the US that keeps exotics, I whole heartedly respect Aussies Import/Export laws. I honestly think it is great that they have bans and laws in place to protect their native species. Dont get me wrong, I would DIE for a centralian, western or shingleback blue tongue skink along with many other of native Aussie reptile species, but I know I wont be able to unless I am willing to spend thousands of dollars ($5000+). I have accepted this and realized that no matter how much complaining I would do, its not going to make a difference.

I think you should be happy to live in a country that is FULL of many different types of beautiful wildlife! I would love to go visit your guys beautiful country and be able to capture all of your reptile species (with a camera that is! lol).


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## Hickson (Mar 12, 2007)

DragonKeeper said:


> I have a feeling when I am older (I'm only 15 now) I will have two houses one for me and one for my lizards... I would spend most of my time in the lizard house though
> 
> Anyone know a really really big, colorful (orange, green) native aussie lizard?



Central Netted Dragons can be colourful, although not "really really big"







Or you could try for an Emerald Monitor, or Mangrove Monitor.



Hix


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## monis (Mar 12, 2007)

if a exotic animal escape it end up like the simpsons with the bolivion tree lizards
we would need to import chinese needle snakes then 
import south african snake eating gorrilas and wate for them to die in the winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MrSpike (Mar 12, 2007)

Tim,

I understand what you are saying, I love Australian reptiles as much as the next person on this forum. But I respect that fact there always will be exotics around. My point which i don't think that your getting, is that the fact that there are exotics out there is true, so why not do something about it? But an amnesty out, get them legal, make it known how many exotics there really are because the system we are in now is crap.

Sure I would kill for a Red Tailed boa, or a Burmese python, but that fact of the matter is we cannot keep them, so I won't do it. Also i don't think some reptiles can survive in Australia's environment.

Kane


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## moosenoose (Mar 12, 2007)

Timotei said:


> Wow, wat an inspirational attitude u have. It's going to happen anyways, so let's just give up. U no wat, the human race is going to breed to overpopulation and become extinct anyway so we shld just all kill ourselves now.



Great idea and better than half the "save the world" crap I hear from people. We're all out there destroying the planet at a phenomenal rate, but we can all puff our chests out and say what a wonderful job we're doing with our Australian wildlife...what a load of.......! If we're not out there eating or shooting it, or half of it being hit hard by an invasive toad species we're out there knocking down its habitat or running over it in our cars!!!!! Give me a break!

One thing we're useless at is managing what we've got, and it's not hard thinking of some really important ones..... like bloody water for a start. So as far as exotics go, we aren't handling this matter very well either, they are like illicit drugs in society, we can squeal and rant and rave like a pack of idiots and turn a blind eye , but it's not stopping the multitudes of other idiots out there obtaining them (most of these exotics aren't coming in from overseas anyway, they are bred here). 

The world is becoming a smaller place whether we like it or not, we can't just remain this secluded happy little island that nothing will touch forever. Clever management now, or the basis of some sort of framework that will enable certain individuals access to some species of exotic reptile is the most sensible and logical approach in my opinion. But that said, even with the licensing system we already have in place, it has major flaws. 

It's because as humans we're great at mismanagement and slightly better at partially fixing the massive mistakes we have made that impact our wildlife. Perhaps if we were all as "into nature" as we make out, nobody would keep animals as pets. But the desire to do so remains, and this is where the whole dog eat dog problem has sprouted. So in reality you're right, the only thing that'll save our wildlife is if we're weren't around, but rest assured, we way we're all going it won't take too long!


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## Zanejb (Mar 12, 2007)

look i think some of you are missing the point, your saying that we should just let exotics in because it wouldnt matter if exotics got out and coursed chaos because us humans are doing it faster well arent you generalising a bit? most of us here are lovers of reptiles and would sooner catch a wild snake and show it of rather than kill it like non reptile lovers. this forum is for reptile lovers.

Remember we are only voicing our opinions on the matter of exotics but seeings as exotics are now being treated the same way as drugs well i think your take this way out of hand. Drugs is an underground thing just like exotics are but where not talking about people killing themselves were talking about the impact exotics have on the native wildlife.

ok lets take this too far and compare exotic deseases with native wild life to human exotic deseases. We here in australia are scared of this bird flu from getting here correct? because our bodies have been exsposed to small amounts of this desease like those in asia. if the desease makes it to australain shores we sill drop faster than flies and exotic deseases will do the same to your animals. just look at the OMPV virus found in snakes atm in australia its an exotic desease that has been introduced into australia and now our private collections are dieing from it and its only a matter of time before it gets into the wild.


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## JasonL (Mar 12, 2007)

here's a pic for you


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## moosenoose (Mar 12, 2007)

Zanejb said:


> just look at the OMPV virus found in snakes atm in australia its an exotic desease that has been introduced into australia and now our private collections are dieing from it and its only a matter of time before it gets into the wild.



Yeah? And why's that? Because these things are happening already whether we like it or not. The same as it's also not a matter of "if" bird flu will hit our country but "when", so again, these things are unavoidable. It's better to give the majority of people the right and legal choices and get it right, than stumble around trying to apprehend the few who are doing everything wrong and exposing the rest of us to the "risk" of foreign diseases and jeopardizing our licensing rights. Personally I'll always try to do everything by the letter of law in regards to this, but there are others who'll gladly overlook it.

I also think the association of illicit drugs and black market exotic reptiles is a pretty reasonable assumption myself. Doing either does nothing in benefiting our society, and they are both illegal yet people are still doing it - regardless of the impact it will/ can supposedly make. Controlled drugs like methadone programs and the like work and are legal, so you draw the comparison. 



Zanejb said:


> look i think some of you are missing the point, your saying that we should just let exotics in because it wouldnt matter if exotics got out and coursed chaos because us humans are doing it faster well arent you generalising a bit?



...and I'm not saying just let them in. And No, I'm not generalizing. Have you driven a car today? Turned on a light bulb? Opened a packet of chips? Flushed a toilet? After the last 200yrs of modern day society we're sinking this planet faster than an prison escapee in a knockshop!

I'm not wanting to sound mean about the whole issue, but that's just my gloomy way of seeing it. Perhaps I'm way off the mark, but when you really open your eyes and have a look at what's going on, it's bloody scary!


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## Zanejb (Mar 12, 2007)

hahahaha ok well remember we make these choices on the things we do, so by the fact that these things happen whether we like it or not isnt a case of its out of the people hands because its people that do this. your comparing the animal trade with the water loss well im sorry but um the weather does its own thing but water conservation is a little bit of a different issue. im not saying the world isnt scary mate because we all live in it but it also takes all of us to get things not exactly right because itll never happen but if we dont work together as a group then things wont get better. if we work together to make people avoid exotics then we are helping just because your not getting instant results doesnt mean we arent having an inpact. and as far as "things have already happened" its never too late to try and turn the tide.


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## Timotei (Mar 12, 2007)

Lol, moosenoose, i hav a suggestion for u:

Go form a nihilist colony on a secluded island and everyday you and your followers can bask in the despair of the world and roll on the floor saying how naive it is to fight for what you believe in. 

Stop spreading ur cynical crap onto other ppl. U reckon we shld all go die in a hole because there's a bad man outside dumping his nuclear waste in the ocean. I don't know about u, but personally, i believe in integrity, commonly mistaken for naivety, and i believe that the greatest form of courage is persisting in the face of defeat, well aware that you will fail.

Cynicism is the weakest moral standpoint (if u can call it that), and basically is an intellectual excuse for laziness and immorality.


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## moosenoose (Mar 12, 2007)

Timotei said:


> Lol, moosenoose, i hav a suggestion for u:
> 
> Go form a nihilist colony on a secluded island and everyday you and your followers can bask in the despair of the world and roll on the floor saying how naive it is to fight for what you believe in.
> 
> ...



Whatever lol I'm not wanting to form any group, we're all part of it anyway  I'm stupid to come on here and post my views on the subject. Paint it pretty as you like, this planet is in real strife and we're all too lazy to change it. And thats including myself! Make sure you put the recycling in the recycle bin and so forth okay


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## cma_369 (Mar 12, 2007)

Adam said:


> Get some Frill necks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


When they go on class 1 in nsw,me and all me mates want em badly:cry: Its not like there that much harder than a beardie to keep eh?

The the woma rumour thing, how would we go about getting frillies considered for class 1?? if its possible.


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## cma_369 (Mar 12, 2007)

The only exotic i really want anyways is a chamelion, everything else basically gets too big to keep:| and will only end up getting let go into the wild.

Maybe they could start by letting a few of the less hazardous lizard species first and go from there???:?


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## MannyM (Mar 13, 2007)

cma_369 said:


> When they go on class 1 in nsw,me and all me mates want em badly:cry: Its not like there that much harder than a beardie to keep eh?
> 
> The the woma rumour thing, how would we go about getting frillies considered for class 1?? if its possible.



I'm sure they're a lot flightier and would be harder to keep than another form of lizard.

That being said, I don't really understand how some herps are classed (such as Womas), but at least you can take solace in the fact that eventually you'll be able to own one. It doesn't take too long to get a class 2 (i'm about to go for mine, and will be buying a Woma).

My 2 cents on the topic:

Like Boa, I don't understand why some people here get so defensive when people merely state that they like exotic animals, or that they even would like one. Personally, I love some exotic species, just like I love native species, and the fact that I do like them and would love to keep them doesn't mean i'm the sinister kind of person who would disobey the law to do so. Laws are in place for a reason, and I respect that. I can be dissapointed about the fact that i'll never get to raise my own little chameleon, but I respect that by obtaining a licence, and buying native fauna.

What also really gets my goat with this place, is how some members treat some of the newer less experienced members. I understand that a question may have been asked often, but if it annoys you maybe it's best to just ignore it, or better yet, be proactive about maybe getting something done about it instead of having a go at the people who don't know any better. I know that when I first started out, I had no idea that I couldn't keep exotics, and like any person, I asked a question regarding it. What is wrong with that? Should have I been felt like I was doing something wrong merely because I was asking a question? Is the fact that we can't keep exotics that well advertised, for you to have a go at me (hypothetically) for not being 'in' on public knowledge? Instead of being nasty and negative, why don't you identify the 'problem' and ask the mods to do something about it. I'm sure that if this is asked so often, the mods could simply add a noticeboard or FAQ where this kind of information is kept. In the end, acting like this to new members isn't doing anything for the community here. Just think about that before reacting the way some of you do.



BTW, those emerald monitors are GORGEOUS. Anyone have any more info on them?


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## -Peter (Mar 13, 2007)

cma_369 said:


> When they go on class 1 in nsw,me and all me mates want em badly:cry: Its not like there that much harder than a beardie to keep eh?.



thats why there are so many available


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## Zanejb (Mar 13, 2007)

MannyM i know what your saying ok i really do. the idea of this was not to have people directly attack other users (i noted that in the first post) the intentions of this was for people to post whatever they felt in relevence to the exotic vs native pet trade being legalised. my intentions was to build on the arguements and points people spoke about in order get a clear understanding of what people actually beleived on the arguement. Im still a beleiver of not having exotics but i feel that we all have valid points and the classic "exotics are already here" was touched upon but we did get some good point. Please people continue this discussion but try to avoid offending others and keep it clean.


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## moosenoose (Mar 13, 2007)

Zanejb said:


> MannyM i know what your saying ok i really do. the idea of this was not to have people directly attack other users (i noted that in the first post) the intentions of this was for people to post whatever they felt in relevence to the exotic vs native pet trade being legalised.



I wouldn’t be so surprised at that happening Zanejb, luckily it seems to happen less on here these days, but hey, everyone has an opinion, just because I am right and most people are wrong (Like Timotei ) doesn’t get me too upset  :lol:


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## Zanejb (Mar 13, 2007)

lol actually i forgot i was in this thread and i thought i was in the one i started. that post was inteneded for that one not this one. But like i said we all have valid points its just a matter of whether or not people want to listen or understand.


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## MannyM (Mar 13, 2007)

You had me confused for a minute there


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## Jason_Hood (Mar 13, 2007)

OK folks I am from the states and from Florida originally to make it a little clearer. I believe you all must have heard of the exotics trouble in Florida but if you haven't ... well it sucks. In the southern part of the state there are a huge number of exotics breeding and chasing out our natives. 

Here is the thing, not all the natives get chased out, or more to the point extirpated, some do just fine. But there is a very real, large portion that get decimated. It doesn't happen overnight either it takes years. In some cases 5-10 in other 20-40 but it does happen. No a days I cringe when I see field reports of south Florida because people will visit and see 25-30 different species but only 5 will be natives. 

On a different angle iguanas suck anyway. The are more often mean, hardly ever cared for properly, and are often released or given up to others to care for. The herp society I am in has made it a policy to refuse iguanas rescues because they take up to much space and they can't be given away. It takes away from our ability to save more animals because we get stuck with them. The only good thing about them is I hear they taste like chicken. :lol: 

It is something to fight for because someone is telling you you can't have it but it is not really worth it. My next snakes coming in are womas and my next animal on my wish list will BHP. After that diamond pythons, and lace monitors are but a dream here in the states. You guys have amazing animals over there and what you are missing out on is not worth the problems you will get with them.







Here is a Okeetee Cornsnake

Jason


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## moosenoose (Mar 13, 2007)

Welcome Jason_Hood. Excellent post!


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## Zanejb (Mar 13, 2007)

yea you raise good points jason


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## Timotei (Mar 13, 2007)

moosenoose said:


> I wouldn’t be so surprised at that happening Zanejb, luckily it seems to happen less on here these days, but hey, everyone has an opinion, just because I am right and most people are wrong (Like Timotei ) doesn’t get me too upset  :lol:



Lol, i actually thought, from ur initial reaction to my post, that u were a mature individual moosenoose! How wrong i was. :lol:


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## Timotei (Mar 13, 2007)

Btw, thanks 4 ur input Jason, gd insight into a nation that has experienced wat some are contemplating here. I think it's quite obvious that if u want exotics there are plenty of other countries to which u can go. If u want a pure, native industry, however, such countries are becoming very few and far between. It's just not worth it.


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

[FONT=&quot]A couple of things need to be said about this issue.
Both sides (yes for exotics and no for exotics), have their reasons for their views and choices but u have to look at the big picture people!!!
Many here have said that we should legalise the keeping of exotics to take the "Black" off the subject. U have to stand back and think about this. Legalising the keeping of exotics would not lesson the numbers released into the wild, if anything would increase it, as it would make exotics a whole lot easier to purchase and import into Australia, meaning more numbers coming in. [/FONT]


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

Apart from the obvious possible impact exotics may cause to Australia's environment and flora and fauna, u have to think about the possibility of exotic keepers being bitten by exotic poisonous species. If they were legalised that would be a serious public safety issue and certain exotic species would have to be milked for antivenom. Being a volunteer worker at the Australian Reptile Park, ive seen that it takes fair amount of time, work and energy to hold, care for and then milk the large number of venomous snakes so anti venom can be made. And Thats Just Australian Snakes!!! 
Having to do this to countless Exotic venomous species would be a long tedious and hard job.


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## MrSpike (Mar 13, 2007)

Fleshmetal, 

There are both good points on each side of the argument. But one of the dumest things i think people don't realize is exotics don't need to be imported, there are a tone of exotics already.

I am not going any further into the subject because thins start to get personal.

Kane


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

If anything was to be legalised to do with exotics, it would have to be something like a program where people who hold exotics and no longer want them but cant get rid of them, would be able to hand them over to certain facilities with no questions asked. This would hopefully lessen the possibility of exotics already in Australia, being released into the wild.


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> Fleshmetal,
> 
> There are both good points on each side of the argument. But one of the dumest things i think people don't realize is exotics don't need to be imported, there are a tone of exotics already.
> 
> ...


 
What i was trying to get across was the point that if exotics are legalised within Australia, there will be a major increase in their numbers compared to the ones that are allready here. Their legalisation would mean the increase in their numbers and the possibility of wild populations of exotics within Australia.


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## shamous1 (Mar 13, 2007)

*Central Bearded Dragon*

Get a CBD and paint it any colour you want:lol:


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

haha, ye olde faithful can of paint.


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## MrSpike (Mar 13, 2007)

fleshmetal88 said:


> What i was trying to get across was the point that if exotics are legalised within Australia, there will be a major increase in their numbers compared to the ones that are allready here. Their legalisation would mean the increase in their numbers and the possibility of wild populations of exotics within Australia.



Good point, but can you be 100% sure this will happen, I only think that all the currently bred stock number will be known.. there are more and more exotics going on the market every summer, the only difference I think there will be is that it will be known how many there are.

I'm sure most people will be surprised when they realize how many exotics there actually are.

Kane


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## fleshmetal88 (Mar 13, 2007)

Can you be 100% sure it wont happen Mrspike. i understand what u are saying about the current stock numbers being known but the thing is, unknown stock can be bred from those known stocks and those unknown stocks is what poses the greatest threat.


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## MrSpike (Mar 13, 2007)

fleshmetal88 said:


> Can you be 100% sure it wont happen Mrspike. i understand what u are saying about the current stock numbers being known but the thing is, unknown stock can be bred from those known stocks and those unknown stocks is what poses the greatest threat.



The fact of th matter is, this argument will never end. Thats why I'm over it  The same thing is happening with native animals to mate, but people just don't care as much...

Kane


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## cement (Mar 13, 2007)

The fact of the matter is , if you are keeping exotics illegally you are a target for the law, if you breed them then maybe youll sell one to the wrong person one day, and get picked up that way.
If you get tagged by a lethal one youll be in even more of a pickle. Will you ride it out? Is it worth your life? Do you have access to anti- venom for your species?
Do you just like showing off to your mates, FAMOUS for keeping something not only dangerous but illegal????
Or is it really compensation for something that your lacking????
If you can't live by Aussie law then move out.


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## Timotei (Mar 13, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> The fact of th matter is, this argument will never end. Thats why I'm over it  The same thing is happening with native animals to mate, but people just don't care as much...
> 
> Kane



Hey, if ur allowed to hav a quick last word and run, then so am i! 

Ppl do actually care about the natives, hence the breeding programs mate.

I find that in this argument plenty of ppl hav been feeling safe to throw blanket arguments out there - unresearched and guessing pretty much, just huge generalisations.

The simple argument is this:

There is no ecological gain to legalising exotics - in fact there are plenty of risks associated - so don't do it!! Why on earth wld u even think about jeopardising our fragile ecology!!

And please Kane, stop saying that exotics are already here, because everyone realises that they are - just not in the devastating numbers that wld be present if they were legalised. Here are a few things to think about:

1) At the moment, only incredibly desperate (and arguably immoral) people are keeping exotics as pets. The legalisation of exotics wld open this to the common keeper, making them think that it's ok. At the moment the main deterrant for many is the legality aspect, as many cannot see the ecological aspect, and so the removal of this deterrant will WITHOUT DOUBT cause a huge scale influx of exotics into the country.

2) Other countries have experienced the destruction of exotics introduced - and yes, i realise that there are feral animals in the wild, so please do not say that australia's ecology is already screwed, cos ur nuts if u think so. The fact of the matter is, that Australia's ecology is so much more fragile than that of other countries, meaning our flora and fauna are far more specialised, hence making them far more vulnerable to introduced pests. Just look at the cane toad.

3) Escapees cannot be denied. The fact is that a) some herps will not be contained, and b) some keepers are useless.

4) Flashmetal88 made a REALLY important point. The keeping of venomous exotics here in Australia will directly endanger us PERSONALLY. The situation can be seen in South Africa, where exotic vens are being kept, and plenty of ppl are dying on a regular basis as a result that hospitals simply cannot stock anti-venom for every ven species in the world, and the average aussie will not be able to identify an exotic, whereas will quite possibly be able to identify a native.

If u feel i'm missing something, let me no, i fail to see ANY reason (apart from sheer selfish desire) why exotics shld be legalised.


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## cement (Mar 13, 2007)

Ditto Timo


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## MrSpike (Mar 13, 2007)

Tim, I don't think you understand my last message. What I meant to say was... That people are keeping and selling natives off license, no one seems to care just as much as say this disagreement. I'm not going to bother reply to you last post either because A) I'm to lazy to try and type that much and B) I'm to lazy to type that much.

I understand what you guys are saying and I do realize the impacts that it would have because I do know who fragile AUS is. Like I said though I am wayyyy to lazy and tired at the moment and wayyy over the subject for at least another few days.

Kane


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## junglepython2 (Mar 13, 2007)

Good post Timotei, people who think making exotics legal will solve any of those problems are in a dream world.


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## phantomcat (Mar 13, 2007)

this debate will keep going (as it has on many other forums elsewhere) forever and a day and each side will flatly refuse to give in (and everyone is entitled to their own opinion) i for one will agree to disagree. we have some beautiful animals in australia, and we're very lucky to have (thanks to our slightly restrictive laws) managed to largely evade most of the horrible diseases and parisites that the rest of the less regulated world has had to put up with in the last few years.

.....i for one want one of those emerald monitors!!!! they're gorgeous, plus as a bonus they're AUSTRALIAN!!! : ) hows that for some pride in our birth-place! lol.


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