# Snake Smuggling in Victoria



## Forensick (May 16, 2008)

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/snakes-on-plane--boffin-busted/2008/05/16/1210765106461.html









maybe the cameroon scams aren't all scams


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## Mangles (May 16, 2008)

What a joke. A $3,000 fine and $300 costs. Not really a deterrent at all considering how much he would have made from these snakes if he wasn't caught.

No mention of whether he had his reptile licence revoked.


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## Veredus (May 16, 2008)

Exactly, he wasn't even fined the value of one snake...No wonder so many people try it.


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## Forensick (May 16, 2008)

they didnt say what species he tried to bring in... but that looks like a GTP...... so it coulda been worse... at least he smuggled in "natives"


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## Hetty (May 16, 2008)

Yeah, it's good to know you can illegally import snakes and all you get is a slap on the wrist


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## dragon lady (May 16, 2008)

Words cant describe the powerless feeling that comes from deep within when hear about it...but see it!:evil:
thanks for sharing *Forensick*!
at least the GTP had a reasonable size container....this time!


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## Chimera (May 16, 2008)

Here's a thought, at the VHS he had a display with a company banner etc etc. Does anyone know whether he registered a business name?

If he has registered a business name, anyone who has purchased a green from him since then (and therefore will probably get a knock on the door from the DEC) can register a complaint with the ACCC under section 52 of the Trade Practices Act (misleading and deceptive conduct). Further to this, regardless of whether he has a business, he is open to litigation under civil tort law for passing off illegal smuggled animals as legitimate licensed ones.

I'm no lawyer, so don't take this as gospel, but anyone who received a visit from the DEC as a result of this probably has a few legal avenues to pursue.


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## CodeRed (May 16, 2008)

Wonder if they investigated whether or not his existing GTP collection was also smuggled in?


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## caustichumor (May 16, 2008)

I wonder how many dead captives get replaced every year?


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## albino (May 16, 2008)

CodeRed said:


> Wonder if they investigated whether or not his existing GTP collection was also smuggled in?


 
what about the collections of his good buddies, just cause one got caught don't mean others weren't involved. ( watch them attack me ). i doubt he'll even lose his licence, cause his buddies live by the rule, ' you scratch my back, i'll snitch for you '.


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## Gecko :) (May 16, 2008)

$3300!,. What an absolute joke , . 
The sad thing is this beautiful creature is going to be killed because of this person.
What a load of crap,. 'I needed the money cause of my family' what a dumb excuse!


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## Ramsayi (May 16, 2008)

Steve Butcher
May 16, 2008 - 8:56AM

A leading Victorian reptile expert fined $3000 for illegally importing four pythons planned to use the snakes in his collection in a breeding scam for profit.

Meyndert Jacobus Bornman, 32, a former president of the Victorian Herpetological Society, was caught in an Australian Customs sting after four green tree pythons were imported from South Africa.

Melbourne Magistrates Court heard yesterday the snakes were labelled as promotional rugby material, a Springbok jumper or Lonely Planet guides to South Africa.

The pythons, a species listed under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), were packed in pillow cases surrounded by shredded paper.

Jan McAlpine, prosecuting, told the court Bornman sent $6500 for the snakes' purchase to his mother in South Africa who was instructed by him how to arrange their importation.

Ms McAlpine said quarantine officers at a Sydney international postal facility found a first snake on March 19 this year labelled to an address in Belgrave South.

Ms McAlpine said two more pythons were found in similar parcels on March 30 before investigators later identified Bornman when he checked a post box at the address.

On April 2, after Bornman collected a postal notification card put in the box by investigators - who had also placed a box with matching delivery details at the local post office - he was arrested.

On that same day a fourth python was found in Sydney.

Bornman admitted he found the pythons on a South African web site and planned them as replacements for four licenced pythons that had died.

Ms McAlpine said Bornman revealed he intended to breed them for profit and "would keep the imported snakes illegally until he had money to buy babies and then claim the imported ones were the babies".

Defence lawyer David Starvaggi said Bornman, unemployed, who has degrees in botany and zoology, was apologetic and remorseful and had learned a valuable lesson.

Magistrate John Bentley also convicted Bornman, of Ferntree Gully, who pleaded guilty to four charges of importing a CITES specimen, and ordered him to pay $300 costs.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/snakes-on-plane--boffin-busted/2008/05/16/1210765106461.html


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## caustichumor (May 16, 2008)

Learned a valuable lesson? you would think that after gaining 2 degrees in "botany and zoology" you would not have to learn such a valuable lesson! And as for "Apologetic and Remorseful" maybe for being caught out.
$3300, that seems like an acceptable risk management cost to me! Those 4 adult pythons would be worth a minimum of $20000-$30000 (in Australia). And the possible future earnings they could generate with offspring would be substantial. (all on the books mind you) The fact that he had 4 snakes which had died and not been recorded shows long term planning.


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## gozz (May 16, 2008)

is he a member of this site ?


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## Hsut77 (May 16, 2008)

gozz said:


> is he a member of this site ?



Was a member.


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## gozz (May 16, 2008)

Meyndert bornman is the one who wrote the artical on Colour and pattern Mutations of australian pythons in the Keeping and breeding australian python book


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## -Peter (May 16, 2008)

makes a mockery of his inclusion in "Keeping and Breeding Australian pythons".


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## gozz (May 16, 2008)

its a bit of a worry if anyone has bought of him


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## Gecko :) (May 16, 2008)

gozz said:


> its a bit of a worry if anyone has bought of him


Thats for sure


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## KWKW (May 16, 2008)

they should take hes licence off him! But we all no that wont happen!

if anyone has brought off him in the past may be worth looking into as if i spent that kinda money i wouldnt risk the chance of DSE knocking on my door taking them cos the so called breeder stuffed up.


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## Pixxie (May 16, 2008)

If DSE didn't punish him I doubt anybody that bought stuff off him has anything to worry about. It's a ridculous punishment. I doubt it'd hvae been long time planning, he'd have just thought about getting more, He may not have had 4 die, he could say anything he likes, theres that many on his license.

And he could DEFINATLEY afford babies.


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## ad (May 16, 2008)

This germ really hasn't surprized me the depths he would sink to.
What a legend, it is such a pathetic fine, such a joke allround.
The animals arent the priority for these people - it is all about the money.


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## Tatelina (May 16, 2008)

Pixxie said:


> And he could DEFINATLEY afford babies.


And you're his accountant are you?
I am not defending him in the slightest btw.


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## levis04 (May 16, 2008)

what a joke, the fines are rubbish. So much for doing the right thing. It almost makes it worth doing this crap, they need harsher penaltys so it doesnt happen again. and definatly loss of licence for good.


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## Pixxie (May 16, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> And you're his accountant are you?
> I am not defending him in the slightest btw.


 
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise it took a genius to figure it out.. But now I know.


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## Hetty (May 16, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> And you're his accountant are you?



Tatelina, do you have to be so rude all the time?

Anyone who knows who he is or has come across him on APS or at expos knows what caliber of animals he keeps. Even if he didn't have the cash, he could sell say, an albino, and buy hatchy GTPs if he wanted. That doesn't take an accountant, it takes a small level of knowledge on python market prices.


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## Lewnatic (May 16, 2008)

Forensick said:


> they didnt say what species he tried to bring in... but that looks like a GTP...... so it coulda been worse... at least he smuggled in "natives"



smuggling is bad... we all know that. but to say it could have been worse as they were natives i think is a bit beside the point... in any case, any disease brought in by a 'foreign' native is guaranteed to affect the native population if they come into contact, as they are the same species. the reason these laws are in place is to protect native snake populations, and a $3300 deterrent is not the way to go about it.

from what i can see on the DSE license application forms i read and filled out recently, the current laws in place in Victoria were instated in the "Wildlife Act of 1975". that's the problem right there. in 1975 $3300 was considerably more than it is today, and while their intentions were in the right place, i'll bet if you told any one those who wrote these laws that a GTP could, and would, sell for up to $10 grand, they would have called you crazy.

the laws and punishments clearly need updating, and the DSE are not about to go ahead and do it, as i'm sure they have more than enough other things on their plate. the issue needs to be raised on a large scale, because pretty soon something catastrophic is bound to happen, and we could lose the GTP or any one of the other beautiful species of snake we have in australia entirely.

i hope some changes are made soon

Lewis


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## Troy K. (May 16, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> And you're his accountant are you?
> I am not defending him in the slightest btw.



You don't need to be an accountant when you know what sort and how many snakes this guy was selling.


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## jasontttt (May 16, 2008)

Hi all, Bornman had 4 or 5 baby green tree pythons for sale for 4500 at the reptile show in melbourne in feburary .


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 16, 2008)

Why would anybody import animals that are carrying diseases???? That is rediculous. Wrong thing to do I guess, but I wonder how many of you would actually say no to 4 adult green pythons, 1 male and 3 females for $5500. The market price for them is rediculous, and the only reason they cost that much is because we in the hobby are willing to pay the exuberent prices for them in Australia. When we stop giving them the value they have people will stop smuggling them in. He paid for it with his reputation, that should be enough. The judge might have known this too. The animals have also been destroyed, so no chance of disease. So in total the experiment cost him $10000. Its when people start cramming 10 animals into a box and two thirds die that it becomes a disease risk into Australia.


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## gozz (May 16, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> And you're his accountant are you?
> I am not defending him in the slightest btw.


i find it hard to beleive that he had money problems knowing what he has in his collection etc btw a collection that is a1 too


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## craftsman (May 16, 2008)

Why would anybody import animals that are carrying diseases???? 

Why? Because the smuggler wouldn't know they carry diseases.:shock:


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## Pixxie (May 16, 2008)

His "reputation" was allready on the down with they hybrid albinos. I doubt the judge knew this. What he did is worth way more then he payed. And i don't think someone would've called him and offered him the animals, most likely planned and looked for.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 16, 2008)

Craftsman: You should know best of all that people who keep tree pythons dont allow them to just carry diseases. They are valuable snakes anywhere in the world. These snakes would also have been captive bred snakes. And if this person has other high end snakes in his collection he would also not risk his collection by importing something that would contaminate his collection.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 16, 2008)

Carpet pythons in victoria all fall under the same specie so his albinos are not technically hybrids.


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## spilota_variegata (May 16, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> Bornman admitted he found the pythons on a South African web site and planned them as replacements for four licenced pythons that had died.



Four dead pythons??? I thought he was an experienced snake keeper - with degrees to boot. I haven't had 4 pythons die on me in over 40 years of keeping snakes, other than from old age and I give a few of my older snakes away, but come on, who would buy the 4 dead python story?? Maybe he should be charged with perjury for lying to the judge.


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## snakehandler (May 16, 2008)

The Wildlife Act 1975 was ammended in 2002, and increases in fines was added, no probably not enough but according to the regulations he "should" have his permit canceled and all reptiles he owns "should" be confiscated, most likely euthanised!

By the way, albinos of any species are not hybrids, they are a genetic trait, most states do not recognise each of the different subspecies of carpet pythons technically anyone owning a jungle carpet in Victoria has purchased an ilegal reptile!


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## craftsman (May 16, 2008)

Crocodylus, what you're saying makes sense, I didn't know he bought them from a reputable breeder. Did you know that?
GPs were / are being smuggled in from snake farms in Bangkok, Hong Kong and other places where they can be bought very cheaply. Do these crooks tell you where their snakes are from? Of course they bred them here in Australia! Haven't they?


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## Pixxie (May 16, 2008)

I did not say albinism is a form of hybrid (well technically if crossed with a wild type the babies are hybrids).


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 16, 2008)

Craftsman: I know him very well, I personally think it was stupid and idiotic what he did. I have been to see him and he told me the whole story. He even showed me a veterinarians report, they were advertised as two pairs, the vet probed and gave them a full examination. South Africa is world renowned for their wildlife vets and their veterinary school ( Onderstepoort Veterinary University). He actually arranged for the relevant CITES permits for them to be shipped back as this can sometimes be an option, but the animals were euthenased without him even knowing. This would have all been done on his own expense. Not to try and stand up for him as he knew what the implications would be for his actions. Judge him all you like what he did was wrong but he did try to save the animals. He could have been selling drugs to school kids, whats worse?


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## Ryan93 (May 16, 2008)

Damm how stupid could you be, But then again he could have got away with it to if he wasnt caught


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 16, 2008)

I know, im sure he wont try it again. Im sure he will just move back to South Africa in the end. No point trying to breed animals anymore now with his reputation being nothing. I really am sorry to see how us Australians can take the Morral High Ground so easily. He has been judged and found guilty. Its just never enough, is it???


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## amazonian (May 16, 2008)

Do I think his sentence of just $3000 is fair? HELL NO!
I recieved a $4000 fine some years ago for simply spitting on the ground.


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## craftsman (May 16, 2008)

Shame on you amazonian, spitting on the ground is bad manners! They should have fine you at leas 20k.


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## Australis (May 16, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> He actually arranged for the relevant CITES permits for them to be shipped back as this can sometimes be an option, but the animals were euthenased without him even knowing. This would have all been done on his own expense. Not to try and stand up for him as he knew what the implications would be for his actions.....



He would of known that if he was caught, the standard protocol is to destroy the animals, bottom line is this clearly wasnt as important to him as making money!

So making out he is some caring person with his claimed attempt to get CITIES permits at his own expense is just total BS, just someone trying to save face.... or even get a refund back where they came from!!


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## spilota_variegata (May 16, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> I know, im sure he wont try it again. Im sure he will just move back to South Africa in the end. No point trying to breed animals anymore now with his reputation being nothing. I really am sorry to see how us Australians can take the Morral High Ground so easily. He has been judged and found guilty. Its just never enough, is it???



I think (speaking as an Australian) is we (collectively) do not like people who break the law, regardless whether it is smuggling snakes or selling drugs to children (I don't know how you could draw this parallel, but I'll use it nonetheless). It's not taking a high moral ground, it's stating our anger and dislike to this dispicable act (smuggling).

The thing that angers me most - it makes my blood boil - is the fact that he claims to be unemployed and is almost certainly receiving the dole whilst making a comfortable living from snakes - some of which have almost certainly been attained by questionable, if not illegal means. I pay a lot of tax and it infuriates me when my taxes are being used to provide money to people who do not deserve it.

Let's face it, he has been charged and convicted this time around. How many people get caught the first time they break the law? Do you seriously think this was his first time?


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## CodeRed (May 16, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> I know, im sure he wont try it again. Im sure he will just move back to South Africa in the end. No point trying to breed animals anymore now with his reputation being nothing. I really am sorry to see how us Australians can take the Morral High Ground so easily. He has been judged and found guilty. Its just never enough, is it???


 

Good riddens to him. I doubt too many Aussie herpers would be sad to see him go.


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## ad (May 16, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> I know, im sure he wont try it again. Im sure he will just move back to South Africa in the end. No point trying to breed animals anymore now with his reputation being nothing. I really am sorry to see how us Australians can take the Morral High Ground so easily. He has been judged and found guilty. Its just never enough, is it???



sniff sniff
anyone got a tissue.


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## craftsman (May 16, 2008)

Last word (from me): some of us work very hard and spend lots of effort and money to maintain and breed this beautiful species. Here come someone who takes risky shortcut and undersells all of us as well. Didn't somebody mention that he was selling hatchlings for $4,500 at the Expo? No wonder he can do that! Comes cheap, goes cheap.
Good night


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## spilota_variegata (May 16, 2008)

craftsman said:


> Last word (from me): some of us work very hard and spend lots of effort and money to maintain and breed this beautiful species. Here come someone who takes risky shortcut and undersells all of us as well. Didn't somebody mention that he was selling hatchlings for $4,500 at the Expo? No wonder he can do that! Comes cheap, goes cheap.
> Good night




I bet he didn't tell Centrelink about this.


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## ihaveherps (May 16, 2008)

lol Cordylus.... maybe he should go home. I mean his sick, smuggler of a mother may need to be tended to, seeing as he now cant afford to pay for the medical bills. Keep towing the line champ....


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## FNQ_Snake (May 16, 2008)

Well, what can I say, this is exactly the type of behaviour that will force recreational herp keepers to justify keeping herps once again. I wonder what legislative changes will be in the pipeline.

I can't blame the judge for the $3000 fine as it seems that most people (I asked a few friends that were over who have no interest in snakes/pythons about it) don't really understand the severity of smuggling animals into Australia.

Without knowing the ins and outs of the case, perhaps the prosecutor could have outlined the extreme severity of the offence. He wasn't just breaking the law, he was threatening the bio-security of Australia.

When will the legal system change to reflect the opinion of the community?

Not sure if this one has been posted: 

Courtesy of The Age

_Steve Butcher
May 16, 2008 - 8:56AM
_ 
A leading Victorian reptile expert fined $3000 for illegally importing four pythons planned to use the snakes in his collection in a breeding scam for profit.

Meyndert Jacobus Bornman, 32, a former president of the Victorian Herpetological Society, was caught in an Australian Customs sting after four green tree pythons were imported from South Africa.

Melbourne Magistrates Court heard yesterday the snakes were labelled as promotional rugby material, a Springbok jumper or _Lonely Planet_ guides to South Africa.

The pythons, a species listed under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), were packed in pillow cases surrounded by shredded paper.

Jan McAlpine, prosecuting, told the court Bornman sent $6500 for the snakes' purchase to his mother in South Africa who was instructed by him how to arrange their importation.

Hope his mother got nailed back in SA as well.

Ms McAlpine said quarantine officers at a Sydney international postal facility found a first snake on March 19 this year labelled to an address in Belgrave South.

Ms McAlpine said two more pythons were found in similar parcels on March 30 before investigators later identified Bornman when he checked a post box at the address.

On April 2, after Bornman collected a postal notification card put in the box by investigators - who had also placed a box with matching delivery details at the local post office - he was arrested.

On that same day a fourth python was found in Sydney.

Bornman admitted he found the pythons on a South African web site and planned them as replacements for four licenced pythons that had died.

Ms McAlpine said Bornman revealed he intended to breed them for profit and "would keep the imported snakes illegally until he had money to buy babies and then claim the imported ones were the babies".

Defence lawyer David Starvaggi said Bornman, unemployed, who has degrees in botany and zoology, was apologetic and remorseful and had learned a valuable lesson.

Magistrate John Bentley also convicted Bornman, of Ferntree Gully, who pleaded guilty to four charges of importing a CITES specimen, and ordered him to pay $300 costs


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## baxtor (May 16, 2008)

Lewnatic said:


> the current laws in place in Victoria were instated in the "Wildlife Act of 1975". that's the problem right there.
> 
> Lewis


 
The fact that the act is titled "1975" does not mean it has not been ammended in the years since then.


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## Ramsayi (May 17, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> I know, im sure he wont try it again. Im sure he will just move back to South Africa in the end. No point trying to breed animals anymore now with his reputation being nothing. I really am sorry to see how us Australians can take the Morral High Ground so easily. He has been judged and found guilty. Its just never enough, is it???



So he doesn't want to live in this country if he has to do some honest work and pay tax to survive here? Add to that the fact that by smuggling animals in he potentially could of been bringing in diseases with them? He really must love this country !!!

Would be greatful if you could let us know when he will be leaving as Im sure a few of us would love to go to the airport to make sure he gets on the plane errr I mean wish him Bon Voyage!


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## alex_c (May 17, 2008)

good riddance really considering his hybridisation projects :lol: and the fact that he would put this country at risk of new diseases etc really says a lot about how he feels about this country.


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## alex_c (May 17, 2008)

Pixxie said:


> His "reputation" was allready on the down with they hybrid albinos. I doubt the judge knew this. What he did is worth way more then he payed. And i don't think someone would've called him and offered him the animals, most likely planned and looked for.


from a thread posted a while ago with a link to a south african forum. it appears these animals were possibly payment for albinos that were exported legally or going to be to a guy in south africa with a zoo licence.


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## Packages (May 17, 2008)

"yesterday the snakes were labeled as promotional rugby material" . What the hell does that mean?


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## angel (May 17, 2008)

as caustichumor said - he must have been planning this long term, sorry he lied, sorry he got caught, sorry about his name being smeared all over the net, sorry he did not use his brain to start with.
I thought his mother would have had more sense


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## albino (May 17, 2008)

gozz said:


> is he a member of this site ?


 
judging by cordylus' replies, maybe yes. 


he may have got his collection that a few people claim is A1 in the same way. especially since he aint got a job. dole bludging scum, still gets to keep his licence. i think as herps are his sole source of income, it then isn't a hobby and the tax man should have his go now. i'm sure he'll be after more than 3300.


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## Retic (May 17, 2008)

There was a case in 1998 when 10 GTP's were smuggled into Cairns Airport from Singapore, they were found to be carrying an unknown (to this country) virus.


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## Jungleland (May 17, 2008)

He did'nt really have a good reputation to the majority and this issue just put icing to the cake, I doubt that he'll be able to repair the damage that he's done to his name........


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

Who says snakes were his only source of income? Most people who partake in illegal money making activities don't restrict themselves to only one source of illegal revenue. Let's face it, if you sleep with dogs, you get fleas. I don't know him from a bar of soap, but I'd be surprised if snakes were his only source of income. I'm not accusing, just an opinion.



albino said:


> judging by cordylus' replies, maybe yes.
> 
> 
> he may have got his collection that a few people claim is A1 in the same way. especially since he aint got a job. dole bludging scum, still gets to keep his licence. i think as herps are his sole source of income, it then isn't a hobby and the tax man should have his go now. i'm sure he'll be after more than 3300.


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## rockman (May 17, 2008)

I thought that they ( the GTPS's ) where het for albino , and that they where swapped for some albino darwin x jungle , x coastal , x bredli , x anything that could be crossed with the darwin , that where breed last year . 
I suppose thats one way that he could be lucky enough to produce albino greens . 

Wonder if its his mates that have the special going at the moment , greens for $1000 , beautiful red and blue ones ? . LOL

Absolute joke with the fine being that small . 

I wonder who else may fall soon ?


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

rockman said:


> I thought that they ( the GTPS's ) where het for albino , and that they where swapped for some albino darwin x jungle , x coastal , x bredli , x anything that could be crossed with the darwin , that where breed last year .
> I suppose thats one way that he could be lucky enough to produce albino greens .



That's interesting.. Never heard of that one.

What would he have said when his "native greens" suddenly threw out a couple of albinos? One, a chance in a million - two or more... what would be the odds? I'm no geneticist but surely someone on site could tell us what the odds of that happening would be. And he would have sold them for very handsome six figure amounts to boot. :evil:


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## Retic (May 17, 2008)

If you are involved in this sort of thing it really is only a matter of time before it turns around and bites you on the bum.


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## lovey (May 17, 2008)

It would hardly be a GTP if it was an albino lol..
GTP's are renouned for their colour, i think that an albino would detract from it's 
natural beauty.

Dean


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

boa said:


> If you are involved in this sort of thing it really is only a matter of time before it turns around and bites you on the bum.



Yeah but a $3300 fine.. Does this offence actually count as a criminal record? What are the repercussions? He'll still receive the dole and probably still sell snakes. It's not as if he's going to lose his job or anything like that.

I bet his lawyer was provided courtesy of the taxpayers of Australia because he was "unemployed.


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

I don't think I could think of a more beautiful snake than a pure white GTP. Mmmmmm, I would do almost anything for one - EXCEPT BREAK THE LAW 



lovey said:


> It would hardly be a GTP if it was an albino lol..
> GTP's are renouned for their colour, i think that an albino would detract from it's
> natural beauty.
> 
> Dean


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## junglepython2 (May 17, 2008)

Albino GTP's aren't pure white, they don't look all that much different to a normal GTP.

And only a 3k fine when you look at how much he would have made from that single import, what a joke.


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*Yeah what a joke!!!!! I'm outraged disgusted and not amused at all...*


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## CodeRed (May 17, 2008)

itbites said:


> *Yeah what a joke!!!!! I'm outraged disgusted and not amused at all...*


 

You're such a hypocrite.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/exotics-other-reptiles/fined-15000-exotic-snakes-82022/page-1

Your mate gets busted with exotics and you defend him, saying he didnt deserve it 'coz he's such a nice guy, and now your condemming smuggling. You cant have it both ways, you're either against exotics and smuggling or you're not.


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*LMAO  yeh sure thing codered... like what ever! It's called sarcasm someone needs to have a coffee 'n WAKE UP hehe*


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*And besides I find it amusing how every response is basically identical so I thought I would join the lynching  Nawww don't get frazzled matey it's okay *


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## cockney red (May 17, 2008)

LMFAO!!! Nice one!:lol:



itbites said:


> *Yeah what a joke!!!!! I'm outraged disgusted and not amused at all...*


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## baxtor (May 17, 2008)

the inquisition is still alive and well judging by all the calls for a lynching.
The theme of most seems to be that this bloke is scum for doing the wrong thing and not respecting the law of the land and yet these same people are disrespecting that very same system of law because it handed down a judgement contrary to what they would have. Can't have it both ways.


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## Minka (May 17, 2008)

itbites said:


> *LMAO  yeh sure thing codered... like what ever! It's called sarcasm someone needs to have a coffee 'n WAKE UP hehe*


 


You know what they say..

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit


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## Helikaon (May 17, 2008)

Minka said:


> You know what they say..
> 
> sarcasm is the lowest form of wit




i thought that was a mime


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*Oh great way to be sly and attack someone aren't you clever, don't you look cool  ughh*


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## Minka (May 17, 2008)

Why so defensive? 
ITS SARCASM


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## PimmsPythons (May 17, 2008)

the bloke is a compulsive liar and not many had respect for him before he got caught let alone after.i have many stories about him (but wont share on a public forum) and it was only a matter of time before he got caught and certainly deserved a bigger fine and should lose his animals and licence as a minium.the only reputation he had was a bad one.he should swallow his pride and leave the country.
now i got that off my chest heres a couple photos of an albino gtp called Floyd.spectacular IMO


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*LOL...bahaha umm well ....*You know what they say..

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit   

*Mmm yummy words ey? ..EAT UP *


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## Minka (May 17, 2008)

Im a big fan of Floyd. Hes a spectacular looking animal, cant wait for the time Aussie keepers produce such examples. Cheers for the pic Slimebo


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## Minka (May 17, 2008)

itbites said:


> *LOL...bahaha umm well ....*You know what they say..
> 
> sarcasm is the lowest form of wit
> 
> *Mmm yummy words ey? ..EAT UP *


 

 Now wheres that wiki term for IGNORANT


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## itbites (May 17, 2008)

*...While your there can you please look up immature :lol: *


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

baxtor said:


> the inquisition is still alive and well judging by all the calls for a lynching.
> The theme of most seems to be that this bloke is scum for doing the wrong thing and not respecting the law of the land and yet these same people are disrespecting that very same system of law because it handed down a judgement contrary to what they would have. Can't have it both ways.



I think he is very fortunate he got a judge that did not fully realise the full implication of his actions. A highly educated person such as the subject of this post is and was fully aware of the potential damage smuggling snakes into this country could cause.

As to the lynch mob, we are just excercising our right to free speech (and opinion). Just because a judge has handed out a very poor sentence (IMO), it doesn't mean we have to sit on our backsides and accept it without so much as a peep. Maximum sentences are rarely imposed. Unfortunately, in this case it is clearly obvious the judge did not feel it was necessary. Had the defendant been truly honest and said something like, "Your honour, I have a degree in biology and a degree in zoology. I have smuggled these snakes into Australia knowing full well that they might be carrying diseases that could potentially wipe out all snakes in this country. I am intending to breed and sell these reptiles knowing that by doing this, their offspring could also carry diseases that could wipe out the collections of the buyers, collections that they have obtained legally and at great expense......." I could waffle on but do you seriously think that if he did tell the real truth to the judge, he would get off as lightly as he did?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (May 17, 2008)

He actually did tell the judge that. They seemed to have left out a few things in the article, like he has not been receiving payments from centrelink because he does not spunge of the government, he performed mouth to mouth resusetation on a guy that hung himself and revived him and was then told by the persons family that he had hepatitis c. If you think these are all lies, go do a search on the net. Funny how reporters only report what they want to. Wonder how many of you would actually say what you say on forums to the persons face? Yes he stuffed up, we all stuff up.


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## rockman (May 17, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> He actually did tell the judge that. They seemed to have left out a few things in the article, like he has not been receiving payments from centrelink because he does not spunge of the government, he performed mouth to mouth resusetation on a guy that hung himself and revived him and was then told by the persons family that he had hepatitis c. If you think these are all lies, go do a search on the net. Funny how reporters only report what they want to. Wonder how many of you would actually say what you say on forums to the persons face? Yes he stuffed up, we all stuff up.



So does that mean that if we are not on the dole and have managed to save someone life , we get to do what we want and get away with it ????????????? . 
Is this his excuse for smuggling in Greens ? 
Nothing to do with them being het's for albino ? . 
As for saying something to someones face , what is said here , bring it on . 

This would have to be one of the most lame excuses i have ever heard . 

Get real ! .


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## spilota_variegata (May 17, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> He actually did tell the judge that. They seemed to have left out a few things in the article, like he has not been receiving payments from centrelink because he does not spunge of the government, he performed mouth to mouth resusetation on a guy that hung himself and revived him and was then told by the persons family that he had hepatitis c. If you think these are all lies, go do a search on the net. Funny how reporters only report what they want to. Wonder how many of you would actually say what you say on forums to the persons face? Yes he stuffed up, we all stuff up.



I'm far too lazy to chase this sort of stuff up. If he is a friend of yours and you feel you should stick up for him, get a copy of the full court transcript and post it here. I'm sure it would make very interesting reading.

I've performed mouth to mouth on several dying (and dead people) and somehow it is never brought up because I don't have to defend my integrity.

Even if he is not receiving centrelink payments (and I find this very hard to believe), he still receives the benefits an unemployed person does. Did he get his degrees whilst unemployed at tax payers expense? Has he ever paid tax in this wonderful country of ours?

If he wants to come to Alice Springs to talk to me, I'll talk to him face to face. I would love to hear his side of the story. I just wont let him anywhere near my collection and would definitely change my clothes and have a shower before I touched mine again.

I have nothing against him personally, just the type of person he is - a convicted smuggler.


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## flinders (May 17, 2008)

if people want to stand up for this person they should be labeled in the same category as him. there are no excuses for doing what he has done. what he has done not only endangered our own wildlife but has tarnished the herping community as well.


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## krusty (May 17, 2008)

Hetty said:


> Yeah, it's good to know you can illegally import snakes and all you get is a slap on the wrist




thats what i thought,it's great hey...........


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## alex_c (May 17, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> That's interesting.. Never heard of that one.
> 
> What would he have said when his "native greens" suddenly threw out a couple of albinos? One, a chance in a million - two or more... what would be the odds? I'm no geneticist but surely someone on site could tell us what the odds of that happening would be. And he would have sold them for very handsome six figure amounts to boot. :evil:


yeah pugsly posted a thread with a link to a thread on a south african forum where the deal appears to have started


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## rockman (May 17, 2008)

flinders said:


> if people want to stand up for this person they should be labeled in the same category as him. there are no excuses for doing what he has done. what he has done not only endangered our own wildlife but has tarnished the herping community as well.



Thats very true ! .


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## FAY (May 17, 2008)

I think that more than enough has been said on this subject.


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