# Knob-tailed geckos heating and tank size questions



## Reptiles101 (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm getting two knob tailed geckos bursting with excitement  
just have a few question with heating and tank size.

okay so....I need a heat mat, what's a good brand for heat mats? how am I meant to connect it to a thermostat? Do I buy a thermostat? What should the basking temperature spot be? As for tank size is a large/low exo terra terrarium (90x45x30 WxDxH) a suitable size for a couble of knob tailed geckos? And is red reptile sand a suitable substrate to use?


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## mummabear (Apr 27, 2013)

Tank is fine, red sand is fine. Not sure on brands of heat mat, choose one that is not too big. A thermostat is always good. You just plug the mat into the thermostat set it so you get a warm spot on top of the sand of about 30-32. Check with thermometer. Make sure you have moist sand up one end under their hide and dry sand above the heat mat. Hide in each end.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks mummabear, what wattage dose the heat mat have to be? and where would I get thermostat from?


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## Thyla (Apr 28, 2013)

I use the 7 watt 28x15cm heat mats for my 20-30 Litre click clack containers. An enclosure of your size of almost a meter in width and half a meter in depth, I would recommend a much bigger heat mat, say the "430mm x 280mm, 17" x 11" and place it on either the far left or far right side of the tank. Any brand is good, so long as its not the fat green type of heat mat (you'll know it if you see it). Thermostats can be expensive, I use a range of brands and find the cheap imported ones just a good as the expensive locally bought thermostats.


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## mummabear (Apr 28, 2013)

To be honest I'm not really sure what wattage heat mat you will need. It depended on a few parameters. How thick the sand will be, how close to the bottom of the terrarium it will be. At a guess maybe around 20w? You can buy thermostats online, at your pet store, herpshop etc. The choice is yours. I would think a cheep on/off thermostat would be fine for 1 enclosure with a heat mat.


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## LaDeDah (Apr 28, 2013)

Thyla said:


> I use the 7 watt 28x15cm heat mats for my 20-30 Litre click clack containers. An enclosure of your size of almost a meter in width and half a meter in depth, I would recommend a much bigger heat mat, say the "430mm x 280mm, 17" x 11" and place it on either the far left or far right side of the tank. Any brand is good, so long as its not the fat green type of heat mat (you'll know it if you see it). Thermostats can be expensive, I use a range of brands and find the cheap imported ones just a good as the expensive locally bought thermostats.



Why wouldn't you recommend the green heat mats?


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## Thyla (Apr 28, 2013)

Naomi said:


> Why wouldn't you recommend the green heat mats?



I have read a few posts on this forum when they have overheated and caused burning injury to the reptile. 
My rule of thumb now, don't use green heat mats or heat rocks (same reason).


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

I rang up a pet shop today, and they said not to use a heat mat, as they often fail and can course serious burns. They also said if I use a heat mat the gecko won't be able to have a cool side to retreat to. The pet shop said to use heat lamps, so the geckos can retreat to a cool side so they don't over heat. headlamps are better to use they said.

now I'm confused do I use a heat mat or a heat lamp? I've never owned a knob-tail before and don't want to burn/cook them.

also the pet shop said I need uv lighting as well...do I need UV lighting?


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## eddie123 (Apr 28, 2013)

Don't trust pet shops they have no idea


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks Eddie I always think that when I walk into pet shops...so I use a 20 watt heat mat connected to a thermostat set to 30-32 degrees Celsius that covers one third of the bottom of the tank?
Do I still need to use a uv light.


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## Radar (Apr 28, 2013)

Being nocturnal, probably not.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ok thanks Radar.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 28, 2013)

As Radar said, no UV is required. Also a heat lamp is a silly suggestion. They are nocturnal and it would have to be an infrared one. These geckos don't need over head heating. Just a basking spot without the need of light. 
I cover a bit more than 1/3 but less than 1/2 but that's just me. 

+1 to Thyla. No green matts. They are also the usual cause of fires that are associated with reptiles. Nor is it good to use heat rocks. Both cause burns. 

So pretty much:
sand
tank
heat matt (whatever size suits the enclosure size) 
cheap eBay thermostat
Sloped sand (2 or so cm of dry sand on warm side, 8-10 cm moist sand (for burrows) on cool side. Not sure on exact measurements but should matter hugely.
mist them occasionally for drinking (they lick the water of the tub or themselves, and keep the cool side moist)

and FOOD!!!! Yay!

feel free to ask any more question.


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## mad_at_arms (Apr 28, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> So pretty much:
> sand
> tank
> heat matt (whatever size suits the enclosure size)
> ...



Purchasing and reading some books on geckos would be wise investment for their future also.


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## NickGeee (Apr 28, 2013)

Exo terra have great heat mats, they're quite expensive but reliable... For me at least


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## Bananapeel (Apr 28, 2013)

That's a very good idea Mad_at_arms. I never thought to add that.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks bananapeel and mad_at_arms, what would a suitable book be to get? Oh another question I have is it ok to house a few knob-tailed geckos together in a tank (90x45x45)?


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## mad_at_arms (Apr 28, 2013)

Keeping and breeding Australian Lizards edited by Mike Swan
A Guide to Australian Geckos & Pygopods in Captivity by Danny Brown
*
*


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks mad_at_arms, is an IMIT thermostat ok to use?


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## Thyla (Apr 28, 2013)

Yeah I wouldn't trust pet shops for advice on reptiles. An ordinary pet shop will probably allocate about 5% of effort into reptiles. Whereas this forum's almost sole focus is on reptiles and attracts amateur keepers through to experts who write reptile books and herpetological scientists.

If you read my earlier comments I suggest using a heat mat which would take up approximately 30% of your enclosure floor space. This allows the geckos heaps of space to go to if they want to cool down.
Also, these geckos are nocturnal so providing a heat lamp to bask in doesn't come naturally for them (heat lamps are recommended for dragons because they are diurnal).

Because they don't get sunlight, they will lack the ability to make vitamin D3. That's why I highly recommend you buy a D3 supplement to dust the feed 2 out of every 3 feeds. You should be able to find these at good pet shops. I use one called Repti-cal.

EDIT: I would avoid keeping more than one adult male in a tank. Multiple females or multiple female and a male should be ok


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ok Thanks Thyla, I've got repti-cal which I use for my bluey  is it ok to house baby's together?


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## Bananapeel (Apr 28, 2013)

Yes it is okay to keep younger ones together but in saying that, they are prolific breeders and can and will often mate without much effort on your half so be wary of this. I would suggest a few small click clacks for the young but this requires another heat matt I would assume so maybe not.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 28, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> Thanks mad_at_arms, is an IMIT thermostat ok to use?



No... The IMIT thermostat measure ambient air temperature. What you need is a probe thermostat to be in contact with the heated surface.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ok thanks guys, is this an appropriate heat mat to use Thermostat Controlled Heat Mat/Pad 20 watt - Aquarium and reptile online shop in Melbourne. Specialise in Baby Turtles, Lizards, Frogs and Pythons also for sale!


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## garthcapper (Apr 28, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> As Radar said, no UV is required. Also a heat lamp is a silly suggestion. They are nocturnal and it would have to be an infrared one. These geckos don't need over head heating. Just a basking spot without the need of light.
> I cover a bit more than 1/3 but less than 1/2 but that's just me.
> 
> +1 to Thyla. No green matts. They are also the usual cause of fires that are associated with reptiles. Nor is it good to use heat rocks. Both cause burns.
> ...



is the sloped sand a must? any benefits from sloped to just level all round


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## Womagaunt (Apr 28, 2013)

Dont trust the pet shops heat mats are fine as long as you only let it take up 1/3 of the tub so the gecko has a hot and cold side i cant remeber exactly what temps for a knob tail but if you google it im sure you will find out and just buy a thermo and put one cold side one hot and make sure the temp is how its suppost to be also uv is not needed for knob tails hope this helps WomaG  and good luck i hope to be getting some myself soon!


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## Womagaunt (Apr 28, 2013)

Also if you are looking to get a heat mat i have a perfect one for you that you can buy online that has a temerostat connected to it ill link it tomorrow


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 28, 2013)

Ok thanks so much womagaunt.


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## Thyla (Apr 29, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> Ok Thanks Thyla, I've got repti-cal which I use for my bluey  is it ok to house baby's together?


Hatchies are alright to house together. Once they get a few months old, I like to separate them. I've had two small geckos in the same enclosure before and one ended up losing his tail (I'm presuming the sibling mistook it for food and bit it off). 



garthcapper said:


> is the sloped sand a must? any benefits from sloped to just level all round


Leveled sand is fine for these geckos. Sloped moist sand is required if you have a gravid female so she can dig a burrow and lay eggs.


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## eddie123 (Apr 29, 2013)

reptile direct is very good and if you search ebay you can get packages for under $30.
http://www.*********.au/itm/Thermos...352445?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item2a28283e3d

http://www.*********.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=thermostat+heat+mat&rt=nc


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Awesome thanks Eddie


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 29, 2013)

I have another question, I've got some marbled geckos in a 20 gallon fish tank with no heating at all. So can knob-tails or thick-tails have no heating? Or they have to?


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## Tobe404 (Apr 29, 2013)

Keep your thick tails around 23-27 warm hide/end.
Knob-Tails around 30-32 warm hide/end
The rest of the enclosures can remain at room temperature.
So it depends how your temps are and where you are located.
During the warmer months I wouldn't use heating but in the cooler months I would.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks for that Tobe, is the care the same with knob-tails n thick tails? like damp sand as substrate and do thick tails make tunnels?


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 29, 2013)

Thick tailed geckos dont seem to burrow, but they do like too dig a bit. I have mine on 2-5cm of sand and no heating (adelaide), misting half of enclosure once a week/fortnight.


Rick


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## Tobe404 (Apr 29, 2013)

For Knob-Tails I would only mist about 1/3 of the enclosure, as most are from drier areas, and just re-mist once dry.


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 29, 2013)

Ah sorry, being a 90x45cm floor space i would only mist 1/3-1/4 of it. Im using 30ltr storemates and their only about 60x45.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks for that rick your info has been very helpful, I kinda like the thick-tails a bit better, they seem a bit easier to care for.


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 29, 2013)

Very simple to care for and beatiful creatures. Red sand (landscaping yard) as substrate and a couple teracotta pot plant saucers (round 13cm). Love watching them hunt or shed, some nice coloured ones around aswell.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 29, 2013)

My Friends' friend has some thick-tails he lives in Melbourne and doesn't have a heat mat says 'there to dangerous and fail' so he uses a basking lamp instead it's connected to a thermostat set to 20-27degrees and he said he's never had any problems heating the tank this way. They are active, eat, shed and do normal things. He told me to just use a basking lamp with a rock or tile under the heat lamp, would it be okay to do this as well, but thick-tails are nocturnal so would the heat lamp light bother them?


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## Tobe404 (Apr 29, 2013)

I wouldn't use a heat lamp. Like you said they are nocturnal, a heat lamp would act too much like the Sun. Just use a heat matt/cord under about 1/3 of the tank (with a thermostat).


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 29, 2013)

Theses guys have been known to eat at temps as low as 8c over winter, ive herped local areas during winter and found these guys hiding during the day with night time temps as low as 4c. Seen them out of hides in low temps, they are the most cold tolerant geckos we have in australia.

My room temps only get down as low as 12c, so i see no need to heat them at all. I prefer not to use a heat lamp for geckos, they absorb heat though their bellys and a heat cord/mat does the job really well and is more effective then a lamp.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Ok thanks Tobe & Rick, how do u connect a heat mat to a thermostat?


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 30, 2013)

The wall plug that comes on the heat mat plugs into the thermostat, then you sit the prob on the mat and set your temp.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks rick sounds easy now


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## Grogshla (Apr 30, 2013)

it is super easy mate. The best thing for geckos is a heatmat connected to a thermostat. Don't listen to anyone who says to use heat globes or bulbs for geckos.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Ok is an Exo terra heat mat ok to use? as that's the brand I'm going to use.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Could I use those blue Exo terra infrared night lights to view the thick-tails at night?


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## Grogshla (Apr 30, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> Ok is an Exo terra heat mat ok to use? as that's the brand I'm going to use.



Yep they are great! I use them in lots of my set ups. Get one that will roughly cover 1/3 of the floor space of your enclosure.


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## Grogshla (Apr 30, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> Could I use those blue Exo terra infrared night lights to view the thick-tails at night?



Some people use blue/black bulbs or infa red but from personal experience the geckos seem to thrive better without the lighting at night. Even though it is just so you can view them the geckos seem to get bothered by the light and this causes problems with their day night cycle. Once again this is just what I have personally experienced.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Ok thanks Grogshla, I won't use night lights then. I'll just stick to the Exo terra heat mat.


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## reptilezac (Apr 30, 2013)

what he said ^


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Guys I had a suggestion, I'm still going to get a heat mat though, would it be ok to put the Exo terra terrarium on my blueys tank for heat instead of using a heat mat? or is a heat mat the only thing to use for heat?


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## Thyla (Apr 30, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> Guys I had a suggestion, I'm still going to get a heat mat though, would it be ok to put the Exo terra terrarium on my blueys tank for heat instead of using a heat mat? or is a heat mat the only thing to use for heat?



I would be concerned about a lack of airflow around the globe. Also, how were you planning on monitoring and maintaining a constant heat that penetrates into your gecko tank? Having it's own heat mat and thermostat would be so much more convenient.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Yeah I thought having the heat mat and thermostat would be more convenient. Didn't think about airflow around the globes, very good point Thyla.


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Would this Digital Thermometer be the thing to use to measure the temp for the heat mat? Exo Terra Digital Thermometer - Aquarium and reptile online shop in Melbourne. Specialise in Baby Turtles, Lizards, Frogs and Pythons also for sale!


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 30, 2013)

I just use the cheap $1-$4 ones on ebay, cheap an batteries last a long time.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Ok thanks can't wait till i get some thick-tails, very exited now


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Have a question about substrate, would just red reptile desert sand be the thing to use?, or like my friend suggested can I use a mixture of Eco Earth coco nut husk and red desert sand together? what do u guys use as substrate with your thick tail geckos?


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 30, 2013)

I tried play sand and coco but it doesnt stay together very well if dry. Im now using red sand from landscaping yard, i think i paid $8 for around 50kg. 


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (Apr 30, 2013)

Would Pet Shops sell that type of red sand?


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 30, 2013)

Petshops sell red sand 20kg for like $50. Alot cheaper to go to a landscape place as their is no brand name red sand.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

So my checklist is: Exo terra terrarium (90x45x45) LxDxH, Exo terra heat mat, Exo terra digital thermometer, thermostat, red desert sand, x2 hides, a water bowl, fake plant, a piece of driftwood, and 2 thick-tails, oh and my licence. 
What do u think guys?


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## dickyknee (May 1, 2013)

For thicktails you dont really need heating , but a low wattage heat mat wont hurt , sand will not need to be deeper in one end as they do not borrow , red desert sand is not essential either so save your money and buy bunnings play sand ... 
A 900x450x450 exo is a massive over kill for a few thickies , you could keep them in some thing a third that size ...


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

What is an appropriate wattage for the heat mat? Can I ask whats wrong with the size of the tank? I thought that bigger was better. Thanks dickykeen

is it still ok if I use the red desert sand? as I love the look of it, but doesn't sand course impaction?


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

I've been looking around on the net and in some books I've got lying around, but can't find any information on how big Thick-Tails can grow, so how big can/do they get, with tail?


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## Rogue5861 (May 1, 2013)

Normally about 16cm max i believe, between 20-30g.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

Wow that's big


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

.


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## Rogue5861 (May 1, 2013)

That is snout to tail tip, they have a decent tail length.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

So my checklist is: Exo terra terrarium (90x45x45) LxDxH, Exo terra heat mat, Exo terra digital thermometer, thermostat, red desert sand, x2 hides, a water bowl, fake plant, a piece of driftwood, and 2 thick-tails, oh and my licence. 
What do u think guys? Just making sure I'm purchasing the right things


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## Rogue5861 (May 1, 2013)

Do you already own the tank? As said a smaller tank will help then find their food alot easier and probably suit them better, maybe a 60x45x45 exoterra.


Rick


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## dickyknee (May 1, 2013)

Reptiles101 said:


> So my checklist is: Exo terra terrarium (90x45x45) LxDxH, Exo terra heat mat, Exo terra digital thermometer, thermostat, red desert sand, x2 hides, a water bowl, fake plant, a piece of driftwood, and 2 thick-tails, oh and my licence.
> What do u think guys? Just making sure I'm purchasing the right things



I think you should start listening to what people are telling you  
900x450x450 is massive for a pair of thicktails .... seriously you are wasting your money on some thing that big , get a 45x45x30H or even a 30x30x30 would do for a pair.


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

I will feed them in a separate container to avoid impaction of sand and so they can find there food easily. The reason I'm paying a bit so I don't need to buy another tank if they get bigger. Oh yeah the thick-tails I'm getting are sub-adults to adults.


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## Rogue5861 (May 1, 2013)

Its not a beardie, shouldnt be handling it for feeding. Geckos are mostly a display animal, handling just for inspections of condition and sheds.

They will not get impaction on sand, this is what they live on. Mine were on sand after 3 days of hatching, never had any issues. Add a bit of water to the sand then pack it down if ya worried, wait for it to dry off a bit before you add geckos.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

Thanks Rick, so I can feed them in the tank?


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## Grogshla (May 1, 2013)

yes feed them in the tank


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## Rogue5861 (May 1, 2013)

Yep. I had 5 juvis in a tub and only now seperating them now as i had 3 males that started to show. They were feed in their tub and i only had to seperate one for 1 week as he was a little slow, their about 10 months old.

Just sold off 2 males and a female from this group.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 1, 2013)

Cool thanks guys


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## mad_at_arms (May 2, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Normally about 16cm max i believe, between 20-30g.
> 
> 
> Rick



30grams ??
I would like to see that. My biggest WA female gets to about 25grams prior to breeding.


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## Rogue5861 (May 2, 2013)

One of my girls is around 22g, 30g is listed on a few care sheets. I guess their always can be the freak big ones.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 2, 2013)

Sent off the reptile licence today, very happy . Now I'm on my way the owing the thick-tails soon


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## mad_at_arms (May 2, 2013)

I noticed you didn't have any books on your checklist of things to purchase.
Given the knowledge (or lack there of) you have displayed, I highly recommend getting at least one decent book on geckos and read it thoroughly.


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## Reptiles101 (May 2, 2013)




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## NickGeee (May 6, 2013)

Here is my knobby set up..


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## NickGeee (May 6, 2013)

This is my girls...
Lots if sand to burrow.

Sorry for crappy pics :/


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## Thyla (May 6, 2013)

nickg said:


> Here is my knobby set up..



So did you end up going with a heat mat? Because the depth of sand on your hot side (right of pic i'm assuming) looks to be about 5-6cm yes?
If so, your heat mat will struggle to heat to temperature. I would put 1-3cm of sand ontop of the heat mat.


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## beardedman (May 9, 2013)

hi ive seriously got mine in a click clack it is 50cm long and 35cm wide with asa heat pad that is 15cm by 28cm and is on the hot side obviously :] umm calcium your crickets every second feed have your heat pad connected to a thermostat at 32 degrees and your ready to go and also a couple hides


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## Rogue5861 (May 9, 2013)

Basic thickie setup-
Red sand
Terracota pot saucers
Storemate 20l/30l
Just add thickies 


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 9, 2013)

Nice basic set up Rick


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## Rogue5861 (May 9, 2013)

Thats my one of my females. I find keeping it nice and simple allows them to find the crickets alot easier then if an enclosure that had alot of plants, burrows and places for the crickets to hide.


Rick


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## Reptiles101 (May 10, 2013)

Can i ask where do u get those tubs from?


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## Grogshla (May 10, 2013)

I house all my knobtails in a rack system similar to yours Rick and they are loving life!!


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## HerpNthusiast (May 10, 2013)

My uncle has his knob-tails in a click clack system similar to Rogue5861 hopefully in a few months we'll get a mate for Bruce our present thick - tail and hopefully our uncles will breed we can get some smooth knob-tails.

And you can buy the tubs from Kmart target or buntings I believe or get proper click clacks at pet shops but get the tubs they're cheaper.


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## Reptiles101 (May 10, 2013)

Thanks, the heat mat wont melt/burn the bottom of the plastic tub will it?


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## Grogshla (May 10, 2013)

nope but it is highly recommended that you connect it to a thermostat


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## HerpNthusiast (May 10, 2013)

It could put a lot of sand under Beth the heat pad as well


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## Reptiles101 (May 10, 2013)

Thanks guys!


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## HerpNthusiast (May 10, 2013)

Anytime


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## buckziggy (Jun 14, 2013)

good tanks are around 40cm by 30cm knob tailed geckos don't need much space and be sure to have hidy rocks and watered around every day


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