# Licencing to have children...



## Kristy_07 (Nov 9, 2010)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-going-entire-spin-cycle-washing-machine.html :shock::shock::shock:

And we sit around talking about whether or not people should need to have licences to own reptiles or dogs...... yikes. Parents should have licences for their kids (as well as reptiles and dogs).


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## Sel (Nov 9, 2010)

Doesn't work.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 9, 2010)

HEY!

I'll fix it... 

work now?


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## Sel (Nov 9, 2010)

Was it this?

Marci West 'killed 4-year-old daughter to save her from being internet sex slave' | Mail Online


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## Sel (Nov 9, 2010)

Oh my god...just read yours..poor bubba


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 9, 2010)

Not the same, but helps to prove my point.... ugh.


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## shellfisch (Nov 9, 2010)

The link worked for me Kristy, unfortunately, I have already seen it :cry:

I am friends with a beautiful young couple who are trying to scrape together the funds for a third attempt at IVF (the first two failed)
They would be brilliant parents and really want a baby.

Some people should just be neutered. I know its not politically correct to say, but its the truth.


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## J-A-X (Nov 9, 2010)

I swear the world has gone mental ! ! and i agree with shellfisch, in cases like this, they should be desexed. - yes i know thats not the right term for a human being .! ! !


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## Australis (Nov 9, 2010)

Drug issue more than parenting issue.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 9, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> The link worked for me Kristy, unfortunately, I have already seen it :cry:
> 
> I am friends with a beautiful young couple who are trying to scrape together the funds for a third attempt at IVF (the first two failed)
> They would be brilliant parents and really want a baby.
> ...


 
When you think about what some people have to go through to adopt or receive IVF who would make great parents, it just doesn't seem fair, does it?


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 9, 2010)

Australis said:


> Drug issue more than parenting issue.


 
Don't the two go hand-in-hand? If you're on drugs, you shouldn't be looking after kids.


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## Snakewise84 (Nov 9, 2010)

dont for get u need one for cats now too in QLD


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## Sel (Nov 9, 2010)

Australis said:


> Drug issue more than parenting issue.


 
Its both..

Someone should rip her uterus out.


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## shellfisch (Nov 9, 2010)

Sel said:


> Someone should rip her uterus out.



Pick me


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## Karly (Nov 9, 2010)

I was just saying the exact same thing to my sister on the weekend - telling her how you need to provide references and proof that you can look after venomous snakes when you go for your restricted license.... But any stupid idiot can go and have a child.... just seems so ironic.... like it should be the other way around or something.


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## Colin (Nov 10, 2010)

both links are horrific, shocking and very sad stories.. 
really leaves me speechless..


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## Dragonwolf (Nov 10, 2010)

I've raise a number of my own kids and work with children also. I'm constantly distressed and bewildered by the lack of parenting skills evident in some of the families I'm in close contact with and over the past 5 or so years it seems to be getting worse.

Being a parent is one of the most satisfying and difficult "jobs" a person can do properly - you can't quit if it gets too hard or you hate the hours or it buggers up your social life, you'll be in it solidly for at least 18yrs without holidays, your boss will be selfish and ruthless in their demands (maybe for ever lol) and the pay is non-existent! Yet this "job" generally comes with no prior experience or training needed and as has been said before ANY FOOL can get into it!!!!
I spend my days educating and positively reinforcing children (and parents) and stories like the one that started this thread just bring me to tears.


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## giggle (Nov 10, 2010)

I 100% agree with licencing for parenting! HARSH licencing. 

1. The world is severely over populated. Studies have shown that in just ten years time at this rate we will be at full capacity.... now that would be IF all resources were shared equally. But they arent! America uses nine times their fair share of resources. :| Technically, with the unfair distribution of resources... we are NOW at capacity.
2. People like that disgust me. If the world was too much for her, there are sooo many people dying to have children that would have LOVED to take on her little one. But she selfishly held on to it for whatever reason. 

But if for nothing else... survival of the human race and of this planet as we know it (the planet will still be here long after we have wiped ourselves out!) then we need to limit breeding. I can't believe laws havent already been put in place. People are looking at what we are doing to the environment... its impossible to limit pollution with a growing population! Its just going to get worse. Sometimes I feel like the only rational person around lol glad there are some that agree there should be licencing! lol


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## Noongato (Nov 10, 2010)

Disgusting, no other word for it. And they should have been neutered a long time ago. Why havnt they come up with a fully reversable neutering so just in case the wrong person is convicted.. Thats the only arguement against the idea - false accusation. Who gives a rats **** if it breaks her heart that she has to get the snip, its stopping suffering of children isnt it? I think thats the more important thing. 
UGh. I hate the human race.. I really do.


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 10, 2010)

midnightserval said:


> Disgusting, no other word for it. And they should have been neutered a long time ago. Why havnt they come up with a fully reversable neutering so just in case the wrong person is convicted.. Thats the only arguement against the idea - false accusation. Who gives a rats **** if it breaks her heart that she has to get the snip, its stopping suffering of children isnt it? I think thats the more important thing.
> UGh. I hate the human race.. I really do.


yep, we suck........ wish i was a reptile.....................no joke.....


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## Bradchip (Nov 10, 2010)

Karly said:


> But any stupid idiot can go and have a child.... just seems so ironic....



The sad irony of your statement, is that idiots are more prolific in breeding. 

I think it's India that offers people money to NOT have kids. A much better idea than the baby bonus. Maybe offer people money to become sterilised. Bogans would jump at it! The world doesn't have an infinite supply of resources. Where does it end?

I don't disagree with either licensing or a 1 child rule. 

Those links really are heart wrenching


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 10, 2010)

Bradchip said:


> The sad irony of your statement, is that idiots are more prolific in breeding.
> 
> I think it's India that offers people money to NOT have kids. A much better idea than the baby bonus. Maybe offer people money to become sterilised. Bogans would jump at it! The world doesn't have an infinite supply of resources. Where does it end?
> 
> ...


 
I remember 10-15 years ago when China and other Asian countries adopting the "1 child rule" was considered a human rights violation... Having just lived in Vietnam, and seeing the way the world's population is heading, it now seems like a very smart thing to have done so long ago.


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## Nighthawk (Nov 10, 2010)

Karly said:


> I was just saying the exact same thing to my sister on the weekend - telling her how you need to provide references and proof that you can look after venomous snakes when you go for your restricted license.... But any stupid idiot can go and have a child.... just seems so ironic.... like it should be the other way around or something.



As a mother I agree. That way when they screw up, instead of hurting or killing a child they're the ones who cop it. Could be a good answer to avoid idiocracy rising.


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## Dragonwolf (Nov 10, 2010)

You get my vote Giggle.....and everyone else too.


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## glassless_mind (Nov 10, 2010)

Nobody really teaches how to be parents though. There isn't a course you have to take before you're allowed to be with someone. My Dad asked me once how much sex ed we got in high school, and it was extremely little. It wasn't until a couple of years after I started uni that I actually learnt more about STDs than just their names. The school system needs to teach these things to kids. 

Here's an article about a woman from my hometown. Thankfully I don't know her.

Mother Kylie Eastwood jailed for giving five-year-old son alcohol | News.com.au


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 10, 2010)

Another instance of simplifying a complex issue to the point of ridiculous.

Many emotional and basic suggestions made, but none are even close to practical or realistic.


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## shea_and_ruby (Nov 10, 2010)

Bradchip said:


> The sad irony of your statement, is that idiots are more prolific in breeding.
> A much better idea than the baby bonus. Maybe offer people money to become sterilised. Bogans would jump at it!



Now that's an idea!

I think it is Starship troopers where you have to serve time in the army to get a licence for having children. I have always thought this should be the case - you need one to drive, you should get one for kids!


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## thals (Nov 10, 2010)

Both those links were quite appalling, though these are extremes and certainly not your everyday situation. Even if people were to need licences to have kids as has been suggested, you only need to take a look at how these systems are still abused and ignored with people's pets these days, it just wouldn't work.


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## PhilK (Nov 10, 2010)

As a budding veterinarian I am well trained in neutering animals.. I would happily turn the scalpel to many, many people.

I'd start with people who make up retarded names for their children, or spell normal names like dyslexic chimps.

I guess a licence will have to do...


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 10, 2010)

glassless_mind said:


> Nobody really teaches how to be parents though. There isn't a course you have to take before you're allowed to be with someone. My Dad asked me once how much sex ed we got in high school, and it was extremely little. It wasn't until a couple of years after I started uni that I actually learnt more about STDs than just their names. The school system needs to teach these things to kids.



GM - I actually agree with you and someone that posted earlier. Being a parent or step-parent is a tough job that no one really tells you how to do it properly. I think parents will always make mistakes and pass bad habits onto their kids through modelling. But, there's a big difference from making mistakes to not fulfilling your child's basic needs because of your own selfishness or ignorance. 

These are the extreme cases, and most people aren't like this, I know. But, the fact that these people are drug addicts, or low IQ'd, or anything else about their story doesn't mean that they should be forgiven or looked on less harshly because "nobody taught them how to be a good parent", and I also don't think it means that, because there would probably be problems, some sort of regulations, training, or systems shouldn't be put in place to try and stop these things from happening. I think stopping these things from happening would be an easier goal to work towards than solving world hunger, which billions of dollars a year is currently spent on. 



xxMelissaxx said:


> Another instance of simplifying a complex issue to the point of ridiculous.
> 
> Many emotional and basic suggestions made, but none are even close to practical or realistic.



Melissa, all you've done to contribute in your post is to criticise what everybody else has said, while avoiding giving any opinion of your own on the topic, which makes your post both off-topic, as well as useless.



PhilK said:


> dyslexic chimps



Made me laugh. Too true :lol:


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## Dragonwolf (Nov 10, 2010)

Thumbs up to you Kristy. On all counts.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

If you happened to fall pregnant without a lic does that mean someone else gets to have say at weather or not it gets terminated?

I think other systems like the courts and how these people are prosecuted need an upgrade before any licencing system for having children


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 10, 2010)

I choose not to give my opinion on this topic to people who clearly cannot comprehend the complexity of the issues at hand, as demonstrated through the very simple posts and opinions on this thread.

That's all from me on this - have fun.

P.S. *Licensing.


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## Wally (Nov 10, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I remember 10-15 years ago when China and other Asian countries adopting the "1 child rule" was considered a human rights violation... Having just lived in Vietnam, and seeing the way the world's population is heading, it now seems like a very smart thing to have done so long ago.



The one child rule in China has created it's own set of problems too.

Two very tragic tales. Cause, effect and responsibility will all no doubt be jumbled around the wrong way, with no lasting lessons learned from it.


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## Australis (Nov 10, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Don't the two go hand-in-hand? If you're on drugs, you shouldn't be looking after kids.


 
Yeah in this case it goes hand-in-hand sure. I'm more or less presuming she was probably in a state of drug induced psychosis when she committed the act.. given she uses meth.

child murder by mothers (maternal filicide) in developed countries is usually amongst poor and unmarried women - so hypothetically a parental licensing system born out of a knee-jerk reaction to an article like this would exclude unmarried women from having children..which seems a bit old school.


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## PhilK (Nov 10, 2010)

xxMelissaxx said:


> I choose not to give my opinion on this topic to people who clearly cannot comprehend the complexity of the issues at hand, as demonstrated through the very simple posts and opinions on this thread.
> 
> That's all from me on this - have fun.
> 
> P.S. *Licensing.


You already have given your opinion ahaha


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 10, 2010)

well u can thank john howard and the "mighty" liberal government for helping with this sort of thing happening in Australia.
when u give a thousands of dollars in baby bonus's to any woman who has a kid then this is what u get, the bottom 1 percent trying to cash in.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 10, 2010)

NatoRey said:


> well u can thank john howard and the "mighty" liberal government for helping with this sort of thing happening in Australia.
> when u give a thousands of dollars in baby bonus's to any woman who has a kid then this is what u get, the bottom 1 percent trying to cash in.



Oh really? Have a look at some figures since the baby bonus was introduced - you'll find that you are incorrect.

Do a bit of reading before making such broad, sweeping and baseless statements.

Now, that really is it for me on this thread.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 10, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> The one child rule in China has created it's own set of problems too.
> 
> Two very tragic tales. Cause, effect and responsibility will all no doubt be jumbled around the wrong way, with no lasting lessons learned from it.



Sorry, Wally. I probably wasn't clear that my "1 child rule" comment was regarding someone's previous comment regarding the world's skyrocketing population. Yes, unfortunately, you're totally right, it has alleviated one problem, only to create a number of tragic other ones. 

That said, I don't see that as a reason not to try and prevent these kinds of things from happening again. Cynicism is for you older blokes 



Australis said:


> Yeah in this case it goes hand-in-hand sure. I'm more or less presuming she was probably in a state of drug induced psychosis when she committed the act.. given she uses meth.
> 
> child murder by mothers (maternal filicide) in developed countries is usually amongst poor and unmarried women - so hypothetically a parental licensing system born out of a knee-jerk reaction to an article like this would exclude unmarried women from having children..which seems a bit old school.



Australis, I'm not sure anything would have to be at the exclusion of unmarried mothers? Like I said, if you're on drugs, you shouldn't be responsible for kids, whether you're married or unmarried. I imagine other people knew this lady had issues with addiction...



xxMelissaxx said:


> I choose not to give my opinion on this topic to people who clearly cannot comprehend the complexity of the issues at hand, as demonstrated through the very simple posts and opinions on this thread.
> 
> That's all from me on this - have fun.
> 
> P.S. *Licensing.


 
Licencing, a noun. Licensing is the verb.


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## cris (Nov 10, 2010)

giggle said:


> 1. The world is severely over populated. Studies have shown that in just ten years time at this rate we will be at full capacity....


 
Many believe the population is well above the carrying capacity of the planet already. That said the bigger the population the higher mortiality you will get with the next major epidemic. In 10-15 years they will probably be able to manufature viruses to kill heaps of people too, far more environmentally friendly than nuclear war would also make heaps of money for medical companies that could manufacture vacines.

One key factor contributing to limiting population growth is educating women, IMO there should be complete genocide of those opposed to the education of women. This in it self would drop the worlds population to a nice level and then allow it to be nicely maintained. Unforunately the UN is more interested in trying to save those who cause the problem rather than wipe them out.

Im not sure if my view is pollitically correct though :lol:


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## redbellybite (Nov 10, 2010)

I think you have succeeded as a parent ,when all your offspring have grown into happy, healthy, law abiding, tax paying, hard working,young adults that have goals in their lives and want to achieve all they can get out of it ...I have 4 beautiful young adult children,that are a credit to myself and husband and we have been told by many a person that has met them how good of a job we did raising them up ...We didnt have a manual we had COMMONSENSE and yes we made mistakes on the way but learnt from them and moved on .We were both young teenage parents ourselves so age isnt of 'point the finger' its your attitude and what you value as a human being that counts.Please remember its not what material things you can afford your child that matters in their life ,they are wants ,and we all have them ,provide their needs and this includes your PLAYTIME not just the basic feed and house and you will end up with a happy bunch of offspring that will look back and say "we really did have a good childhood" even though they never got the latest of mod cons ..
Teenage years are the hardest to get through as a parent and as a kid ,many a time you will be butting heads ,you owe them trust but if they break it ,they must earn it back ..enjoy being a parent they really arent under your wing for that long now ...and ya do miss it every now n then


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## Australis (Nov 10, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Australis, I'm not sure anything would have to be at the exclusion of unmarried mothers? Like I said, if you're on drugs, you shouldn't be responsible for kids, whether you're married or unmarried. I imagine other people knew this lady had issues with addiction...



I should of written it above your quote, that was just a comment on the idea of licensing in general. Which i think is a "slippery slope", not that it would ever likely happen.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 10, 2010)

Australis said:


> I should of written it above your quote, that was just a comment on the idea of licensing in general. Which i think is a "slippery slope", not that it would ever likely happen.


 
No, you're probably right, mate. It probably won't happen. But, I still think the sorts of things these stories represent are tragic and unforgivable, and are worth having feelings about. Even if you only express them on a reptile forum for a day.


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 10, 2010)

xxMelissaxx said:


> Oh really? Have a look at some figures since the baby bonus was introduced - you'll find that you are incorrect.
> 
> Do a bit of reading before making such broad, sweeping and baseless statements.
> 
> Now, that really is it for me on this thread.


 

i live in an area thats well under the poverty line and i have seen this in action young drug effected familys adding to their brood for the bonus only then spending it on drugs and alcohol and NOT on the kid!
try living life b4 u read government stats to me
thanks very much!


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## Wally (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm not so old that I don't try on optimism at least once a day Kristy.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 10, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> I'm not so old that I don't try on optimism at least once a day Kristy.


 
Good to hear, Wally  I might try again tomorrow - I must have missed today's moment


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## Darlyn (Nov 10, 2010)

There is a mob of missionaries in USA that pay drug addled people to be sterilised. There was an uproar
in England recently when a male heroin addict took money in exchange for a sterilisation op.


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## Wally (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd love to say I have the answers Kristy. 

My current employment has me working closely with the Department of Human Services here in Vic, not directly involved in peoples lives but I see enough to know the problems are very complex, and possibly to a point where they aren't solvable but merely manageable. More can always be done but bureaucracy being what it is, it's hard to steer things in the right direction most of the time.

I don't for the record see a ' license ' as being the answer though. We all know that they can be abused.


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## giggle (Nov 10, 2010)

cris said:


> One key factor contributing to limiting population growth is educating women, IMO there should be complete genocide of those opposed to the education of women. This in it self would drop the worlds population to a nice level and then allow it to be nicely maintained. Unforunately the UN is more interested in trying to save those who cause the problem rather than wipe them out.
> 
> Im not sure if my view is pollitically correct though :lol:



You watched the same doco huh?  Educated women are less likely to have more than two children.  In india they are learning that their educated women, whether they choose to start a career or stay at home as a mum, choose to have a sustainable number of children.

I agree 

However, like you said, we have reached our limit. Whether bleeding hearts like melissa want to believe it or not... we need radical action right now, otherwise within our lifetimes we will begin to see the horrifc affects of overpopulation. We already see it in third world countries... the first to be affected and also those with the largest population growths. Think its bad now... in ten years their population will have doubled.

I am very frustrated with the completely illogical stance some take. I guess melissa also thinks everyone should have a right to have as many children as they like whether they are drug addicted fools who cant afford to support themselves or not.

If anyone thinks they are free... look again. 

In my license system, those that had children unlicensed could choose to go to term and choose a new family for the child to go to, those who have a licence, but have been unable to conceive.


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## Wally (Nov 10, 2010)

I fail to see the connection between sustainable population and alleged manslaughter by drug affected parents.


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## giggle (Nov 10, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> I fail to see the connection between sustainable population and alleged manslaughter by drug affected parents.



A licencing system kills two birds with one stone.


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## Wally (Nov 10, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> More can always be done but bureaucracy being what it is, it's hard to steer things in the right direction most of the time.
> 
> I don't for the record see a ' license ' as being the answer though. We all know that they can be abused.



I'll say it again.


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## Sel (Nov 10, 2010)

There wont be a license for having a baby..women are intended to have children and it is their right to have children..you cant take it away

People need to start speaking up..and if that womans boyfriend knew she was on meth and looking after a baby, then he is to blame too. 

Scrap the baby bonus i say, start paying people to sterilise themselves, they have babies for money..why not sterilise urself for money? The bonus is, you dont have to bring a baby home with you.


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## Noongato (Nov 11, 2010)

They dont give the baby bonus as a lump sum anymore, which is good, no more splurging on drugs and big TV's. They pay it as a payment per week i think. I didnt realize and i pay rent as soon as i get paid, so i overpaid rent by $800, so that was a nice check to get back!
Baby stuff is rediculously expesive. If they lowered the prices of say clothes even, people wouldnt need the baby bonus. I know i still ran short of money, and i dont do any drugs, drink or anything! Probably would have helped if i wasnt paying double rent though XD


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

Sel said:


> There wont be a license for having a baby..women are intended to have children and it is their right to have children..you cant take it away
> 
> People need to start speaking up..and if that womans boyfriend knew she was on meth and looking after a baby, then he is to blame too.
> 
> Scrap the baby bonus i say, start paying people to sterilise themselves, they have babies for money..why not sterilise urself for money? The bonus is, you dont have to bring a baby home with you.


 
I dont really disagree, but stealing children from there parents is a pretty touchy subject, not everyone agrees on what justifies such an action. Its the sort of thing that about as hard to decide as licencing parenting. Some have said anyone on drugs shouldnt have care of children, does that mean some who smokes a joint once a week, has a glass of wine once a day, heroin junkies, people who use hallucenogens occasionally? lots of room for differant opinions on where to draw the line on stealing children.

Why does someone have the right to have children yet not the right to keep them how they want?

The baby bonus is an economic reform, its not aimed at population or family planning IMO.


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## Jay84 (Nov 11, 2010)

These stories make me livid! Any female is allowed to have a child, whether they are capable or responsible enough to look after it.

Yet others are discriminated against for adopting......


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> Why does someone have the right to have children yet not the right to keep them how they want?



The right to "keep them" how they want? They aren't pets, cris! It's not the same as the argument of whether to keep snakes in tubs or more naturalistic enclosures... the question of licencing came up because of the two articles in which the parents didn't even provide the basic necessities of living for their kids, which was most likely connected to their own drug/alcohol abuse... people who've gotten on APS and admitted to not providing their animals with their basic needs have been flamed!! Do they have the right to keep their animals how they want? No. Should these mothers have a right to keep their kids how they see fit? No.


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## Jay84 (Nov 11, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> The right to "keep them" how they want? They aren't pets, cris! It's not the same as the argument of whether to keep snakes in tubs or more naturalistic enclosures... the question of licencing came up because of the two articles in which the parents didn't even provide the basic necessities of living for their kids, which was most likely connected to their own drug/alcohol abuse... people who've gotten on APS and admitted to not providing their animals with their basic needs have been flamed!! Do they have the right to keep their animals how they want? No. Should these mothers have a right to keep their kids how they see fit? No.



Agreed


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## Noongato (Nov 11, 2010)

Rights are BS and get in the way. If they would just ignore them a little then countless lives would be better off.


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 11, 2010)

midnightserval said:


> Rights are BS and get in the way. If they would just ignore them a little then countless lives would be better off.


 are you for real!
this is the most ludicrous thing i have EVER read!


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> The right to "keep them" how they want?


 
I was going to say look after instead of keep, but i dont think looking after was suitable in these cases. 

Why should someone not in a position to provide good care have the right to have children when they should just be stolen later, after plenty of damage will already be done to the child? Doesnt make sense, i guess im just saying i dont really agree that people should have the right to have children if they arnt going to be responsible. If for some reason they do have the right to have kids then it seems pretty silly to steal them later, i would have thought there should be more right to not have your children taken. Dunno if that makes sense i know what i mean.


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

midnightserval said:


> Rights are BS and get in the way. If they would just ignore them a little then countless lives would be better off.


 
Would have to agree, hearing all this about people having the right to do this or that it is 99% BS especially considering the relatively high level of freedom in our society(we dont actually have any rights as far as i know). A hopeless junky has the right to have children yet the child has the right to be cared for properly what the hell? doesnt quite work does it.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> I was going to say look after instead of keep, but i dont think looking after was suitable in these cases.
> 
> Why should someone not in a position to provide good care have the right to have children when they should just be stolen later, after plenty of damage will already be done to the child? Doesnt make sense, i guess im just saying i dont really agree that people should have the right to have children if they arnt going to be responsible. If for some reason they do have the right to have kids then it seems pretty silly to steal them later, i would have thought there should be more right to not have your children taken. Dunno if that makes sense i know what i mean.


 
Oh, sorry. It makes more sense now


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> Would have to agree, hearing all this about people having the right to do this or that it is 99% BS especially considering the relatively high level of freedom in our society(we dont actually have any rights as far as i know). A hopeless junky has the right to have children yet the child has the right to be cared for properly what the hell? doesnt quite work does it.


i have been to Burma with my church group twice and i have seen what its like when you start to take people rights away
and how it ends up.
I agree that junkies shouldnt have kids but stripping rights to live free is not the answer.
education, prevention, social economics and help is what people need,
not stripping rights once you start stripping rights off people it continues and snowballs and will be an excuse to take away more and more rights, not just theirs but all of ours.
in a time where true free speech is limited (even in Australia) freedom of a fair trial(the Australian court system is askew to favor those with the most cash)is gone do we really need to set a precedence of stripping rights to people? 
i very much doubt it.


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## Noongato (Nov 11, 2010)

NatoRey said:


> are you for real!
> this is the most ludicrous thing i have EVER read!


 
Probably should have explained a bit longer. No one gets punished for anything anymore cos the human rights makes people think outside the blaming box and in the end finds excuses to why the people do what they do. If theyre a junkie theyre not responsible for their actions cos theyre a victim of their drug habit, or the old mental state excuse. Which even a paedophile can use and then people all of a sudden go from furious to, aw i suppose so, oh well its ok then.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

I was told by an academic scholar in Vietnam that, "The Western world focuses on human rights, but places no importance on human responsibility." And then proceeded to tell me that that's why the world's effed up. He made sense at the time. We'd had a fair bit of rice wine


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

NatoRey said:


> i have been to Burma with my church group twice and i have seen what its like when you start to take people rights away
> and how it ends up.
> I agree that junkies shouldnt have kids but stripping rights to live free is not the answer.
> education, prevention, social economics and help is what people need,
> ...


 
I would be interested to know what rights an Australian has? Im not aware of any beyond some crap the UN may have come up with (that also applies to Burma).


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

midnightserval said:


> Probably should have explained a bit longer. No one gets punished for anything anymore cos the human rights makes people think outside the blaming box and in the end finds excuses to why the people do what they do. If theyre a junkie theyre not responsible for their actions cos theyre a victim of their drug habit, or the old mental state excuse. Which even a paedophile can use and then people all of a sudden go from furious to, aw i suppose so, oh well its ok then.


 
I think i agree with your basic feeling on the subject, but I dont believe people have control of their actions, have a person in a certain environment with certain genes and there are no choices to be made. That said if a person knows there is conseqences, that will definately influence behaviour (its part of the environment). It is a complex problem for the legal system, especially if heaps of lawyers end up understanding what i have said (i would imagine some already do). As far as my understanding goes people arnt ever accountable in the way the law requires for proper punishment.

I dont think a person makes a decesion to be a paedophile, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt be culled or excluded from society.


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> I would be interested to know what rights an Australian has? Im not aware of any beyond some crap the UN may have come up with (that also applies to Burma).



http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/679EBEFB34CAEAF6CA257140001ACE5C/$file/HumRightEqOppComm1986_WD02_Version1.pdf


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## FusionMorelia (Nov 11, 2010)

anyone who thinks ANY form of human rights is bs is a MORON! simple as that! 
to the guy Quoting a Vietnam person try asking one of the millions of people affected by the Khmer Rouge what they think of human rights!


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

Eloquent, NatoRey.


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## Jay84 (Nov 11, 2010)

NatoRey said:


> anyone who thinks ANY form of human rights is bs is a MORON! simple as that!
> to the guy Quoting a Vietnam person try asking one of the millions of people affected by the Khmer Rouge what they think of human rights!


 

What church are you a part of??


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## Sel (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> I was going to say look after instead of keep, but i dont think looking after was suitable in these cases.
> 
> Why should someone not in a position to provide good care have the right to have children when they should just be stolen later, after plenty of damage will already be done to the child? Doesnt make sense, i guess im just saying i dont really agree that people should have the right to have children if they arnt going to be responsible. If for some reason they do have the right to have kids then it seems pretty silly to steal them later, i would have thought there should be more right to not have your children taken. Dunno if that makes sense i know what i mean.


 
Parents can look after their children the way they want, but, in most cases of children being taken away, its because of neglect, cruelty, abuse etc.. these parents are committing crimes, and it is the childs right to be protected and safe..it is their life, not their parents life to just abuse and do with how they please.

Taking children from a mother is hard to do, and if it is done, then there must be a pretty good reason..id say there IS more right to not have ur children taken. Look at all the cases from the last couple of years..the starving children, the twins locked in a room and starved to death..the kids dont get taken untill its too late..and by then, they are dead.

Unforunately, alot of kids dont get the proper care they deserve..the mothers get sent home from hospital and forgotten about..i dont know why the high risk babies are not getting regular checks from docs, health nurses or whomever.. alot of the time, its people you wouldnt expect causing their children harm.

Anyway, there is no way u can take the right away without removing organs lol


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

NatoRey said:


> anyone who thinks ANY form of human rights is bs is a [deleted] MORON! simple as that!
> to the guy Quoting a Vietnam person try asking one of the millions of people affected by the Khmer Rouge what they think of human rights!


 
Having rights wont stop genocide and that sort of thing, if someone has a gun aimed at you telling them that you have a right to live will make no differance once the bullet hits. Thanks for posting the link i wasnt aware we had so much stuff in law saying "everyone has the right to ...". Still most of them dont really achieve much as they can be laws made to comprimise most of them, often the law directly contradicts the idea of many of these rights, even some of the rights directly contradict other rights. The way freedom or liberty is gained is by killing or otherwise eliminating those who are oppressing people not by telling them they have rights. If you read what i said i was talking about people in our society comlaing abouts rights etc. being 99% BS, if you in Burma i can understand not being happy with the way humans are treated, but rights dont seem to help much over there from what i have heard.

Back on topic, didnt see anywhere where it says junkies or ice addicts have the right to have children that they cant look after properly. The rights of children would IMO suggest it would be actually in breach of human rights for such people to breed. Another case where there are rights but they dont actually do anything.


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## Sel (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> Back on topic, didnt see anywhere where it says junkies or ice addicts have the right to have children that they cant look after properly. The rights of children would IMO suggest it would be actually in breach of human rights for such people to breed.


 
If they are taking drugs while pregnant, then it is child abuse. Not sure if there is a law on it though.. if their baby is still born, they can do drug tests on it, if they find drugs then the mother should be charged!
I could look it up..but cant be bothered, im sure someone else will


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

Sel said:


> If they are taking drugs while pregnant, then it is child abuse.



I'm not sure if this is the "law", but I certainly see where you're coming from. I don't think it is law under any child abuse act (but I'm not sure), but it would still be a crime to be using illicit drugs. 

Which is funny, considering Aus RSA states that if a woman that is 9 and a half months pregnant walks into a bar and wants to drink double scotch on the rocks all afternoon, it's illegal for the bar staff to refuse to serve her :shock: Just to point out that there's a lot of hypocrisy in the existing laws, let alone the ones we're attempting to make up  :lol:


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## Sel (Nov 11, 2010)

I dont know if this is the law either..and even if it was, hard to keep it all under control.

With the pregnant woman wanting to drink at the bar, you could get really technical..like, how does the bar staff know 100% that she is pregnant? Can they prove it? Even tho she looks about to pop... lol soo many things people can get away with. Maybe they should test all the woman before they start drinking ..lol

I had to serve a pregnant woman ciggarettes last week, she was about 6months preggo.. and off her face..not pretty


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## cris (Nov 11, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I'm not sure if this is the "law", but I certainly see where you're coming from. I don't think it is law under any child abuse act (but I'm not sure), but it would still be a crime to be using illicit drugs.


 
It isnt a crime to use illegal drugs in many cases, although that varies from place to place and may depend on your record. 

As far getting wasted at the bar, I guess she has a right not to be discrimated against. Imagine the beating the bar staff would cop if they were just fat rather than pregnant :lol:


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 11, 2010)

cris said:


> I guess she has a right not to be discriminated against...



Yes, exactly. A couple of you guys have said, "What if they're just fat?" - seriously, in 95% of women, you can tell :lol: Is it more difficult for men to being able to tell??

I still think this part of the law sucks. A bar I used to work at was across the way from one of Brisbane's major hospitals, and would have young couples walk out of the hospital with their brand new baby, and the first thing they would do would be to walk across the road for a session... plenty would breast-feed at the same time :shock: It was a killer that you HAD to serve them... 

Back to the original topic... some people just shouldn't be allowed kids.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Nov 12, 2010)

It's things like this that make me lose my already miniscule faith in the human race.


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## alexis (Nov 12, 2010)

:,( :,( :,( so verry verry sad hurting the most innocent its so verry wrong as a parent we are ment to pretect our children from acts like thiss not be the cause of them verry sad poor little cheribs .


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## Australis (Nov 12, 2010)

I think the parent of these children need their licenses revoked haha

[video=youtube;LACyLTsH4ac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac[/video]


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## ravan (Nov 12, 2010)

giggle said:


> I 100% agree with licencing for parenting! HARSH licencing.
> 
> 1. The world is severely over populated. Studies have shown that in just ten years time at this rate we will be at full capacity.... now that would be IF all resources were shared equally. But they arent! America uses nine times their fair share of resources. :| Technically, with the unfair distribution of resources... we are NOW at capacity.
> 2. People like that disgust me. If the world was too much for her, there are sooo many people dying to have children that would have LOVED to take on her little one. But she selfishly held on to it for whatever reason.
> ...


 
Exactly



Bradchip said:


> The sad irony of your statement, is that idiots are more prolific in breeding.
> 
> I think it's India that offers people money to NOT have kids. A much better idea than the baby bonus. Maybe offer people money to become sterilised. Bogans would jump at it! The world doesn't have an infinite supply of resources. Where does it end?


 
I wish we had that. it would make the trip to the US my partner and I are planning so much more attainable!


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## SomeGuy (Nov 13, 2010)

So you get a license, but how would that make you care for your child any better? Lots of people have drivers licenses that shouldn't, same with a lot of people who have reptile licenses.


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## PhilK (Nov 13, 2010)

Very very true SomeGuy


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