# ID please



## Davesgonefishin (Jul 6, 2013)

In the garden pebbles. Port Douglas QLD. Very fast. Fiesty.


Can get more pics if needed as I now have him in an old hatchy tub.


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## Davesgonefishin (Jul 6, 2013)




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## Davesgonefishin (Jul 6, 2013)

Bugger wont stay still


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## SurrealReptiles (Jul 6, 2013)

You will need better pics for a positive I.D


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## baker (Jul 6, 2013)

To me it looks like a keelback (Tropidonophis mairii). Head and body shape are more consistent with that of a keelback than a common tree snake to me. From what I can make out there are also 8 labial scales with keelbacks having 8 and common tree snakes having 7. This is the best I can do with the photos given and would need better photos to be sure.
Cheers Cameron


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## Davesgonefishin (Jul 6, 2013)

Doing this on my phone. Any better?


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## baker (Jul 6, 2013)

A little. I am still not able to 100% ID it but it is either keelback or common tree snake. I am around 80% sure that it is a keelback. Both species are harmless though but I would still be careful until you get a 100% ID. We might have accidentally missed something important with the pictures for an ID, better to be safer than sorry. 
Cheers Cameron.


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## phatty (Jul 6, 2013)

Might be a whip snake but don't go by what a say only learning


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## phatty (Jul 6, 2013)

Has it go a scale that separates the nose and eye scale

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## wildthings (Jul 6, 2013)

tree snake, does it have little blue spots between the scales, you'll see them when it flattens it's neck, once you get too close that it feels threatened :/ the first pic looks as tho there are spots along the neck


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## baker (Jul 6, 2013)

Don't always trust the scale flecks. I have a captive keelback that displays the same sort of flecking between the scales as a common tree snake when it feels threatened or just eats to much. When common tree snakes do get threatened they will flatten laterally along the neck instead of dorsally like most snakes (hoping I have the right terms have has a mind blank).
Cheers Cameron


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## Sel (Jul 6, 2013)

Does it have a Loreal scale? Can't tell, but it doesn't look like it does..


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## andynic07 (Jul 7, 2013)

Sel said:


> Does it have a Loreal scale? Can't tell, but it doesn't look like it does..


I was thinking that in the second picture I could just make out a loreal scale once zoomed in.


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## Sel (Jul 7, 2013)

I don't know how to zoom


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## gus11 (Jul 8, 2013)

It is a keelback, the belly scales are wrong for tree snake, also the ventral side is a paler white. They are either a shade of black/blue or bright yellow up there.


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## 12-08-67 (Jul 8, 2013)

i was told that keelback and rough scale snakes can be very similar but rough scale more prone/willing to bite and clearly very dangerous?
reason being that i did find a keelback juvie similar to this one that was identified by vets and alot have been showing up around Brissy? Am just wanting to learn more re similarities to help with identification.


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## Davesgonefishin (Jul 8, 2013)

Well he was relocated to a nice bushy swampy spot. Plenty of frogs etc & only about 200 yards from my place.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Despite the rather quality poor photos, it can be positively identified as a Keelback. It is a young animal and lacks some of the attributes of adults. Nevertheless, by magnifying and then adjusting the contrast and brightness of the photo showing the head slightly, it is possible to discern the loreal scale. Mention has already been made of labials scales and ventral scales. The length of tail immediately rules out the Whip Snake and Tree Snake possibilities mentioned – far too short. The labial scales have dark edges and the line of the jaw is curved upwards near the angle of the jaw and not straight. The body is also too robust for it to be a CTS. The relatively large eye is due partially to its age as is the degree of protrusion of the eyes. I could not discern any clear keels on scales but ascribe this to a combination of age and limitations of the photograph. 

It may help in future to take photos in full sun but not in a reflective plastic container. Also, a verbal description of appearance would really help as we cannot see that which you can – colour, features, pattern, size, behaviour, scalation or the like. 

The advice not to assume a snake is a Keelback, despite looking just like one, is sagacious. Rough-scaled Snakes are a dead ringer for Keelbacks for those not familiar with the subtle differences. They are highly venomous and their toxins are particularly quick acting. Absolutely not a mistake you want to make! 

Blue


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## Specks (Jul 10, 2013)

What happened to Giving an ID to the approved people and if you were certain with credible evidence ?


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 10, 2013)

Hi Specks,

The idea was floated but was never going to fly as there were too many practical issues to overcome and too many short comings. I think a thread like this one is an exemplar of why it should be left more open. Those that have contributed have done so thoughtfully for the most part and that in itself is a learning experience. They will no doubt take note of what others say and weigh that up. If general forum members were excluded from contributing then that would not happen. Another issue is that the ‘experts’ are far from fallible. The other issues were discussed in a a thread started by RonHalling a month or so back. The mods are on the ball and they will pick up on any potentially dangerous misidentifications.


I probably should have pointed out that the number and positioning of the upper labials excludes the other possible colubrid, the Slaty-grey Snake. The BTS does not get a look in due to pupil shape and body morphology, particularly head shape, cross-sectional shape and tail length.

Blue


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