# Cane Toads



## mattmc (May 30, 2011)

Is there nothing this site with any influence it may have can do to put together some kind of crusade against the Cane Toad - I.e. petition the your local MP's both state and council...en masse to do something or to help fund projects to stop the bastards (sorry no other word to express my feelings for this cause) from continueing to push. I know for one this week I've decided to send letters to both local offices...

personally im surprised at the lack of support for such a pressing issue - more pressing than 'climate (bleh) change'

bob brown...you gutless prime minister you. do something old man. your meant to be all over it like flies to a dead sheep.


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## fugawi (May 30, 2011)

There is no cash or vote incentives for politicians to bother with it, unlike the dollar signs that light up by forcing a carbon tax on us.


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## saratoga (May 30, 2011)

If only cattle ate Cane Toads and were poisoned by them the problem would have been solved years ago.

Unfortunately as Fugawi says ... no economic incentive ... no votes.


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

No one has a good method for doing anything about them. All methods used to date have been a waste of time.

In addition the ecological impacts of cane toads is likely to be insignificant compared to other things that are occurring around the world. Climate change will likely send many species extinct and it will displace large populations of people resulting in further land clearing. 

Habitat loss is the biggest cause of species decline world wide.


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## slim6y (May 30, 2011)

Exactly grim... The actual impact is insignificant compared to human induced habbitat decline etc etc. 

There was a good catalyst on Quoll School... I'll see if I can find the link:

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/tv/catalyst/catalyst_10_11_17.mp4 (direct download from the Catalyst site).

And it is even possible (from reading a Queensland Museum text) that giant huntsmans may actually attack toads. Though, other than this text I've never actually read it elsewhere or seen it occur. 

Even though they're a pest, they're here to stay - so we (like the Catalyst show shows) need to deal with it in the best way we can.


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## gus11 (May 30, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> No one has a good method for doing anything about them. All methods used to date have been a waste of time.


 
This isn't entirely true, millions was spent on trying to come up with methods for eradicating toads, and I believe many potential methods were thought up and potentially viable, unfortunately most involved chemicals and methods that could not be realistically used as the effects on native amphibians were unknown. The end result is somewhat the same, nothing can be done about them, but lots of effort was put into trying to stop the toads. Was all a bit late though.


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## fugawi (May 30, 2011)

Unfortunately it is not as simple as some may seem to eradicate them. They are poisonous throughout all their life cycles, egg, taddy and adult so they are not vulnerable to native predation.....ever. They can eat anything that fits in their mouth. They have 40 000 or so eggs and almost all make it through to adulthood. They can travel large distances in numbers. It's like the only obstacles are cold and extreme dry. The main question is how do you kill them in numbers, over a huge area, without harming local frogs or other native species and without making the problem worse?

If you can answer this question........ring Trixie for a good time on........Sorry, mind went off track.


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## $NaKe PiMp (May 30, 2011)

as grim said research has shown there is more significant causes of extinctions than cane toads,and no matter what we do there here to stay.

A lecture i went to by Rick Shine explained 1 natural biological control as succesful,there is a chemical released by toad tadpoles when they are frightened or killed that repels all other tadpoles in the area ,and also affects there breeding cycle.To be effective it would have to be manufactured and released in every body of water in toad affected areas which would be a huge task


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

Don't start me again! check out the thread on king Browns threatened by cane toads.

We should at least try to deminish the numbers & thier spread.
But like others are saying, this does not provide Gov't with cash or votes.


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## mattmc (May 30, 2011)

send the refugees into toad infested areas, get the job done they can stay, fail, they go.
besides...as far as im aware they got rid of them at port macquarie through musters

i personally think its an international conspiracy...the chinese will invade australia and any edible wildlife will be gone for anyone wanting to live bush.

is it not safe to assume that wildlife will adapt to natural changing conditions as wildlife has done for millions of years...cane toad being a prime example with its introduction to australia facing new challenges...they have evolved to suit the conditions better

maybe some species will go as there time is up...others will adapt

the lack of replies on such a pressing issue on a REPTILE/AMPHIBIAN/NATIVE ANIMAL/PEOPLE WHO SHOULD GIVE A DAMN! website just goes to prove that people just dont give two hoots. 

and the lack of an optimistic thought process in the few replies that are here goes to show that humans just give up to easily on something that seems to not involve humanity in present time.


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

Ian how can we do that?


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> Ian how can we do that?



Well I am no well educated scientist or anything, so i really don't know the awnser.

BUT there should be something done asap to try. A couple of suggestion have been made on other threads with some critisism.
Maybe a bounty is a way to start. BUT REALISTICALLY there needs to be a lot of money put into an instistute with the ability to come up with an awnser, such as was done with Prickly Pear & Rabbits. 
If we don't do something the whole of Australia will eventually be overrun by them except the snowy mountains & the harsh dry sandy & gibber deserts. They adapt very well & can eat anything & survive for long periods burrowed in until conditions suite them. I believe that they could become Australias biggest enviromental disaster. Untill they start turning up in Sydney backyards or on Parliment House steps they don't care. After recent large floods I wonder where they will turn up next.

I for one would put my name to any petition towards the eradication of cane toads, to the Gov't.
I would also subscribe to a fight the toad fund if it was necessary, but I believe as an enviromental disaster should be funded by the Gov't, which comes back to us tax payers anyway. 

Cheers
Ian.


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## longqi (May 30, 2011)

About 40 years ago common old house Flies were causing disease problems in China
They eradicated them one at a time without chemicals
Every child and adult was told to kill at least one each day
Even now there are very few flies in China compared to anywhere else


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## fugawi (May 30, 2011)

Ian......I think the lack of replies is more to do with a "Never heard of it" website rather than a lack of people that care. I think if the cane toads infested Sydney or Melbourne and caused havoc to these major populations, something more would be done. If president Obama had to step over them to visit Parliament House in Canberra, they may put more resources into it.


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## Wally (May 30, 2011)

Perhaps China could lend us Fifty million people to help get the job done. Not sure sweet and sour toad will suit the Australian palate though.


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## junglelover01 (May 30, 2011)

i live in townsville, pretty much smack bang in the middle of the cane toad heart land and every year we have a day where everyone in the town is urged to collect as many toads as they can....it has quite a big following and gets good results. something like this done statewide would have a huge impact on their numbers, but unforunately you can't get them all in this manner and you only need two of them for the problem to continue. As frustrating, dangerous and destructive as they are it's not their fault some idiot brought them here to do a job they weren't capable of doing. They've been here with us so long now i think we just take them as a part of life in queensland.


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## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

mattmc said:


> bob brown...you gutless prime minister you. do something old man. your meant to be all over it like flies to a dead sheep.



??


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

The problem is, toad numbers are limited by ecological factors not breeding rates. Every female toad can have up to 40000 offspring. But almost all of these die because the environment can't support them. Unless a toad muster can kill every single toad in a region, all you are doing is making room for more toads. 

I actually have an optimistic view about the whole issue. Toads have done damage, there is no denying than but in regions where they have been a long time the native species have begun to adapt.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> The problem is, toad numbers are limited by ecological factors not breeding rates. Every female toad can have up to 40000 offspring. But almost all of these die because the environment can't support them. Unless a toad muster can kill every single toad in a region, all you are doing is making room for more toads.
> 
> I actually have an optimistic view about the whole issue. Toads have done damage, there is no denying than but in regions where they have been a long time the native species have begun to adapt.


 
I can't see how you could say we sit back & let it all sort out
IT WON"T except in the favour of the toad.



junglelover01 said:


> i live in townsville, pretty much smack bang in the middle of the cane toad heart land and every year we have a day where everyone in the town is urged to collect as many toads as they can....it has quite a big following and gets good results. something like this done statewide would have a huge impact on their numbers, but unforunately you can't get them all in this manner and you only need two of them for the problem to continue. As frustrating, dangerous and destructive as they are it's not their fault some idiot brought them here to do a job they weren't capable of doing. They've been here with us so long now i think we just take them as a part of life in queensland.



I have heard of this cane toad muster & was told a story of a father & son team that after the first day turned up with a truck load of toads, but I dismissed this as a good story.


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## junglelover01 (May 30, 2011)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> I can't see how you could say we sit back & let it all sort out
> IT WON"T except in the favour of the toad.
> 
> 
> ...


i dunno about a truckload but there are a hell of a lot that get brought in....they have prizes for the biggest toad etc.....you get some monsters!


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

I guess what I'm trying to say is as much as I would love to protect the native wild life of Australia. No matter how emotional we get about this it won't solve anythig. All of the current methods of control are completely useless and effort using them would be better spent on something else. 

There are plenty of environmental problems that could be solved with investment.


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## PythonLegs (May 30, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> The problem is, toad numbers are limited by ecological factors not breeding rates. Every female toad can have up to 40000 offspring. But almost all of these die because the environment can't support them. Unless a toad muster can kill every single toad in a region, all you are doing is making room for more toads.
> 
> I actually have an optimistic view about the whole issue. Toads have done damage, there is no denying than but in regions where they have been a long time the native species have begun to adapt.





Any papers on this mate? I'd be very interested to know what was happening in heavily affected eco systems.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

junglelover01 said:


> i dunno about a truckload but there are a hell of a lot that get brought in....they have prizes for the biggest toad etc.....you get some monsters!



Imagine if this was done on a regular basis everywhere???
Well it will not eradicate them but certianly cut thier numbers back a bit & with a bit of publicity it might be a start??

The real awnser is technology through scientific institutes such as C.S.I.R.O if there is any institute like this left after the Gov't has decimated this type of research over the last couple of decades.

Cheers
Ian


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## Elapidae1 (May 30, 2011)

What if seriously depleting Cane toad numbers rather than eradicating them actually slowed down the rate at which native animals adapt to their presence, consequently making extinction more likely or rapid?


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## SteveNT (May 30, 2011)

mattmc said:


> send the refugees into toad infested areas, get the job done they can stay, fail, they go.
> besides...as far as im aware they got rid of them at port macquarie through musters
> 
> i personally think its an international conspiracy...the chinese will invade australia and any edible wildlife will be gone for anyone wanting to live bush.
> ...



You mate are a clown who has done no serious investigation of the issue. The fact you think writing to a politician will fix anything hints at a case of cranium void. The rest of your rant confirms it.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

steve1 said:


> What if seriously depleting Cane toad numbers rather than eradicating them actually slowed down the rate at which native animals adapt to their presence, consequently making extinction more likely or rapid?



I have trouble understanding that you really believe this adaptation theory.
Take a look at some Nat geo programs & research outcomes from time to time.
Snakes & Lizards found dead with cane toads still in thier mouth. Quoll field researchers saying that the numbers are in fast decline due to the finding that quolls have been found with toad pioson.

GET REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## $NaKe PiMp (May 30, 2011)

PythonLegs said:


> Any papers on this mate? I'd be very interested to know what was happening in heavily affected eco systems.


 


there are alot of papers if you look up Rick Shine Lab hes the principal investigator and here is a link debunking the myths of cane toads
Debunking Myths about Cane Toad Impact


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

A real life scientician told me changes in fire regimes in the top end have probably had more severe negative impacts than toads. If you want to learn about the real impacts of cane toads go to the link snake pimp put up or google Rick shine and look at the milliOn + papers his lab has published in the area.


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## $NaKe PiMp (May 30, 2011)

Shine Lab - Shine Lab - The University of Sydney


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## grimbeny (May 30, 2011)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Imagine if this was done on a regular basis everywhere???
> Well it will not eradicate them but certianly cut thier numbers back a bit & with a bit of publicity it might be a start??
> Ian


 
Did you not read my previous post. A female can produce 40 000 offspring. If you kill 90% of them which I think is an unreasonable number you are just giving the surviving toads an unbelievable fitness advantage.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 30, 2011)

Well I hope that I am wrong.
I would hate to hear in years to come that maybe Ian davo was right, but now we have lost those species, maybe how can we fix it up & where do we go from here?????? EVOLUTION will fix it.

Cheers


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## Dannyboi (May 30, 2011)

PythonLegs said:


> Any papers on this mate? I'd be very interested to know what was happening in heavily affected eco systems.


 Birds learn to eat cane toads safely (Science Alert) I would think that would count? has anyone witnessed this? I wonder how far it has spread. Being an observable learned behavior.


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## gus11 (Jun 3, 2011)

I think a few people should just do some basic cane toad searches in Google scholar, the results will answer most of the questions that have been asked. As well as explain the basics of ecology and toads, and how the biggest killer of cane toads is cane toads(have a look into cane toad survival rates). It is worth noting that to date *nothing has gone extinct* due to cane toads, there are much bigger threats - cats and foxes - have a look into the small mammals and critical weight range, or just look in the Australian mammal field guide and look at how many species previous range compares to current range. Or just note that Australia has the highest mammal extinction rate in the world.
Back to toads, everyone wants to do something about them, but lets be completely honest we can't. toads are here, there spreading and all we can do is slow them. When they hit the kimberleys there will be massive declines in frog eating species. will anything go extinct? wait and see. The government spent millions trying to develop methods to get rid of them, and realized it was going nowhere and stopped. Toads have decimated wildlife populations but animals are adapting, e.g. birds flip toads over, crocodiles have been seen to "wash" them before eating, snake head size has apparently changed (there is a paper on this). 
There is nothing we can do now but watch them slowly march across the country


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## Jackrabbit (Jun 3, 2011)

mattmc said:


> bob brown...you gutless prime minister you. do something old man. your meant to be all over it like flies to a dead sheep.



When Julia Gillard hand over the top job? I try to read as many papers as I can but I missed that story. Google shows nothing. am I going crazy??



junglelover01 said:


> i live in townsville, pretty much smack bang in the middle of the cane toad heart land and every year we have a day where everyone in the town is urged to collect as many toads as they can....it has quite a big following and gets good results. something like this done statewide would have a huge impact on their numbers,



I love this, have read about it before. Agree if it could be done statewide imagine how low everybodies golf handicap would be. =]

I wish I could take part. :-(


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## Elapidae1 (Jun 3, 2011)

gus11 said:


> I think a few people should just do some basic cane toad searches in Google scholar, the results will answer most of the questions that have been asked. As well as explain the basics of ecology and toads, and how the biggest killer of cane toads is cane toads(have a look into cane toad survival rates). It is worth noting that to date *nothing has gone extinct* due to cane toads, there are much bigger threats - cats and foxes - have a look into the small mammals and critical weight range, or just look in the Australian mammal field guide and look at how many species previous range compares to current range. Or just note that Australia has the highest mammal extinction rate in the world.
> Back to toads, everyone wants to do something about them, but lets be completely honest we can't. toads are here, there spreading and all we can do is slow them. When they hit the kimberleys there will be massive declines in frog eating species. will anything go extinct? wait and see. The government spent millions trying to develop methods to get rid of them, and realized it was going nowhere and stopped. Toads have decimated wildlife populations but animals are adapting, e.g. birds flip toads over, crocodiles have been seen to "wash" them before eating, snake head size has apparently changed (there is a paper on this).
> There is nothing we can do now but watch them slowly march across the country


 

I think you need to research what Mr Davo has said, because he is right and most other people think so, but they hope he is wrong, though I'm sure we shall oneday in years to come realize that he was in fact right, and we will all wish we had wacked a toad a day and contributed more to the destruction of the toad than just commented on a forum that something needs to be done.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/reptile-news-5375/cane-toads-threaten-iconic-king-162833/


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## slim6y (Jun 8, 2011)

What it appears is there's two sides to an evenly spread argument... 

On one side (which I follow) all animals will adapt, and quickly, to the toad invasion.

On the other side, death and destruction to all those that have amphibians in their diets... 

So far the evidence in my old haunts of Gordonvale (the release point of the toad some 80 years ago) have shown no animals turning up dead because they've noshed down on a toad... I have however seen dead snakes, marsupials, and other animals on the roads - it appears cars have done this though. Without correct toxicology reports I guess we'll never know if they ate a toad then stumbled on the road feeling sick...

I guess the point is - (and this really is the end point) - toads are here to stay, we have to adapt and perhaps, if we can, help our native animals also adapt. 

Removal of toads is still an important past time - but there is huge contention, even amongst reptile lovers, on how to successfully remove a toad from the food chain. 

Diseases in the past have shown they do not work (rabbit calici virus is one that springs to mind).

So the quoll school (shown on Catalyst) is one approach where prevention is the best cure....

I'm afraid we just need to live with our mistakes of our cane farmers in Gordonvale and we all need to do our bit to help our natives survive.... 

One way is - we can look at what we do to encroach on their land just as much as the toad does... 

My firm belief is there is way worse than the toad out there endangering our natives... the toad is but - just one (of them)!


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