# Hatchie Sand Monitor Setup



## TWENTY B (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks to antmisk i have 4 little sandies coming in a few weeks
i was hoping some of you could help me setup for the little monsters.
i have a 4x2x2 tank for them to start of in. (fish tank)
i'll get some brickies sand & red desert sand, 50/50 mix?
how deep?
I have heaps of slate from when i did my ackies, should i do a stack like thiers?


photo credit goes to antmisk


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## waruikazi (Jun 23, 2009)

4 Sandies??!?!?!? You do know how much space thhey are gonna take up in a year or 2?

Set up sounds fine, few inches of substrate on one side, i like to build it up on another so it is a little deeper. A stack or just a branch leading up toward their heat source will do fine.


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## TWENTY B (Jun 23, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> 4 Sandies??!?!?!? You do know how much space thhey are gonna take up in a year or 2? .


 i plan on keeping them in a 600 x 1200 x 2400 indoor enclosure when they are older, 
will that be ok for 4?
i got all 4 to make sure i get atleast 1 male & 1 female.


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## Dave (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm going 12x8x2 foot enclosure for one spencer.. that seems way to small.


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## TWENTY B (Jun 23, 2009)

mine would be 16x4x2
With about 1ft sand in the bottom.
I will only keep 1 male.


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## Reptilian66 (Jun 23, 2009)

To keep 4 adult Sand Monitor's you will need a outdoor enclosure that is no smaller than 12x8x4, like you see in this photo l keep my 4 adult adult Desert Sand Monitor's in, make sure its has heating built into it, and the sand pit is fully enclosed all year around, so they don't get rain on, you should also include a open area for them, like l do for mine, so during the hot summer months they can cool down when its over 34 degrees or higher. and make sure you also have a large water container as you see in 1 of my photos, so they can have a soak on extremely hot days.


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## celticskull (Jun 23, 2009)

thats a great looking setup reptilian


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## jinjajoe (Jun 23, 2009)

Your dimensions 600x1200x2400 for when they are older is exactly the same as my outdoor set-up which also holds 4 animals....... but in this case Kimberley Blue Tongues !!!

Try using your whole back yard !!!

(I'm not trying to be smart.. just trying to get things in perspective)


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## Dave (Jun 23, 2009)

How do you get 16ft from 2400mm? 4ft is 1200m so 8ft is 2400mm..




TWENTY B said:


> mine would be 16x4x2
> With about 1ft sand in the bottom.
> I will only keep 1 male.


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## antmisk (Jun 23, 2009)

My pair are kept in a out door avairy 2mt x 2mt x 2 mt & I'm in the process of building an add on 2.5x 2 x 2 . I use plain dirt to a depth of 600mm & a stack of hollow logs.


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## TWENTY B (Jun 23, 2009)

Dave said:


> How do you get 16ft from 2400mm? 4ft is 1200m so 8ft is 2400mm..


THATS A GOOD QUESTION.... i don't know.. lol. can't count

............hopefully i will get 1m/3f ... suppose we won't know until thy grow up
however many i keep, they will start in a 4x2x2, after a few months into the 8w x4hx2d 
i hope they don't out grow that to fast.. If they do, i'll build something bigger, 
space is not something i am short of here...
huge outdoor enclosures wil be complete in 12-18 months

Enclosure size is not the issue, If they need bigger, they will get it.
I'm trying to make sure i get all husbandry right.
Feeding, Heating, etc.

antmisk, how big are they at the moment?
how big are the adults?


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## KatshirT (Jun 23, 2009)

I don't want to be the barer of bad tidings but why are you purchasing 4 of something that you seem to not know much about??

A 4ft x 2ft x 2ft (720 square mm floor space) enclosure 2 hatchies will out grow in 4-6 months depending on feeding regime so you can imagine how long it will last for 4.

Why not research first, maybe add a few books to your collection??

Every newbie that comes onto this site looking at buying a herp for the first time is told to research first, Ackies and Sandies are completely different reps and should be treated as such.

If Reptilian66 has managed to breed his wild permit caught adults maybe you should have untilised APS before purchasing...

Just My 2 cents worth


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## TWENTY B (Jun 23, 2009)

KatshirT said:


> I don't want to be the barer of bad tidings but why are you purchasing 4 of something that you seem to not know much about??
> so i can keep them, grow them and LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM.
> 
> A 4ft x 2ft x 2ft (720 square mm floor space) enclosure 2 hatchies will out grow in 4-6 months depending on feeding regime so you can imagine how long it will last for 4.
> ...


katsh,it,
just because i have asked a question, doesn't mean i haven't already asked some other experienced keeper the same question
, which i have done
or that i haven'tread through every monitor based thread in the history of this site., 
which i have aslo done
it's because i want to see what someone elses view is on the subject.
so i can makea more informed decision 

keep your 2 cents thanks,


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## PhilK (Jun 23, 2009)

Don;t bother with red sand, is discolours them terribly. Keep them on white sand and you will apreciate their colours and patterns all the more.


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## jeda (Jun 24, 2009)

*G;dy dave*

I;m thinking of getting a spencer, is that truley a dimentinal provision for just one?, thats going to be a wake up call i;ll think i;ll stick to gekos instead, but they are truely top monitors, jeda:?


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## Reptilian66 (Jun 24, 2009)

KatshirT said:


> I don't want to be the barer of bad tidings but why are you purchasing 4 of something that you seem to not know much about??
> 
> A 4ft x 2ft x 2ft (720 square mm floor space) enclosure 2 hatchies will out grow in 4-6 months depending on feeding regime so you can imagine how long it will last for 4.
> 
> ...


 
Katshirt, you are spot on about researching or seeking as much information on what ever species of Reptile you want before you rush out buying 1 or more of them.
l got my very 1st Sand Monitor in 1979 from a Pet Shop here in Melbourne, then l got my 2nd Sand Monitor from Bredl's Wonderworld of Wildlife in Renmark South Australia in 1992, then l got my 3rd Sand Monitor from a Pet Shop in Goodwood South Australia, then l got 2 on permit from the wild in 2002, and another 4 on permit from the wild in 2003.
Before l got into keeping Sand Monitor's, l would go and visit Zoo's that had them as part of their Reptile Exhibit, to see what size enclosure they kept them in, and l would take into account how many they had on display and where they came from natually in the wild.
l even built up a large collection of books to further my research in different sub-species, where they accured in the wild how big they grow to what they eat and what their temperament was like for when it comes to handling them

So has you all can see l know alot about Sand Monitor's, and l did my homework before l started to keep them, l did not rush out and buy 1 or a few without first doing my research first up, those who don't do any research on what they want to keep, have far more trouble in handling-keeping-husbandry-diets-sexing-health issues than those who do their research first,



PhilK said:


> Don;t bother with red sand, is discolours them terribly. Keep them on white sand and you will apreciate their colours and patterns all the more.


 
PhilK, l don't agree with what your saying here in regards to using only white sand to keep the Sand Monitor's clean, so you can see their colours and patterns, its not good for their eye sight to have the bright sun or heat lamps to reflect of the white sand into their eyes.

How would you like it if you were stuck in a room painted white, with the sun or bright likes reflecting of the white walls into your eyes.

You should only use sand that matches the color of their natuall surrounding in the wild, such as red dersert sand not white beach sand, thats is much harder to set ot go hard so they can dig burrows in it.

l have been to places since the mid 80's and seen how they live in the wild, such as Mildura-Broken Hill-Alice Springs-Renmark-Flinders Rangers-Murray Bridge-Swanhill.

if you take note of what color sand l use with my Desert Sand Monitor's and what color l have painted the walls of their enclosures, you will notice it matches their natual surroundings from the wild.

Please don't come on here giving advice on what color sand to use in enclosures, without first doing your research on what your keeping in that enclosure, and where they come from in the wild, and what their natual habitat looks like.




TWENTY B said:


> katsh,it,
> just because i have asked a question, doesn't mean i haven't already asked some other experienced keeper the same question
> , which i have done
> or that i haven'tread through every monitor based thread in the history of this site.,
> ...


 
TWENTY B, l would do your research before you rush into getting more than one Sand Monitor, by first finding out where the Sand Monitor's your getting come from natually in the wild, and once you know that find out what the temperature is like 24hours a day all year around, so you know what heat to provide to them, and what the area looks like natually, so you can provide a artificail habitat as close as possible to their natual surroundings, if you don't do this research first up, they will only suffer and live a very short life in captivity and wont ever breed for you.

As you can see here in these photos my wild caught Desert Sand Monitor's, have all breed for me in captivity, because l provided them with a good outdoor enclosure with red and bricky sand mixed together, and l also took into account what the weather is like in Alice Springs NT and my local area Melbourne Victoria all year around, so l could make sure they are getting the same heat and dry conditions as they do back in Alice Springs NT.

l've notice you have not bother to ask me for any advice on keeping Sand Monitor's, as you said in a post on my thread about my Olive Python's you would do, l no there is not many others out there, that would no much about Sand Monitor's than myself Les, there is 2 other Reptile's keepers that l know can give good advice on keepin a variety of Monitor's including Sand Monitor's, if you want to know PM me and l will give you there names.

Good luck in rasing your 4 juvenile Sand Monitor's Varanus Gouldii Gouldii.


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## Reptilian66 (Jun 24, 2009)

Here is 2 more photos of my Desert Sand Monitor's-Varanus Gouldii Flavirufus, mating together and 1 that has just hatched from its egg.


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## melgalea (Jun 24, 2009)

Reptilian66 i never get tired of looking at those pics. they are gorgeous. 
cheers
mel


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## waruikazi (Jun 24, 2009)

Sorry mate didn't mean to turn this thread into a newbie basher. 

I'll finish my apology with a little known fact. You can get monitors x-rayed to determin their gender with good accuracy. An X-ray will cost less than one of these sandies and with the size of hatchies you should be able to get four done at once on the one x-ray sheet.


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## KatshirT (Jun 24, 2009)

Time on here means nothing... What do I do for a living? have I been overseas? Don't be quick to judge experience on join dates.

Seems that Reptilian66 sees things as I do, 1 Book and a few posts worth of reading will not make you an expert.

If you want to learn about them I think everyone will agree start with 1 next season add another and so forth.

DON"T bring 4 innocent little reps into an ill prepared and experienced environment... What happens if in 6 months their all big and healthy and decide that each other looks like a good meal or a dominance fight gets out of hand....... do you have enclosures available to be able to seperate them? do you have hospital cages at your disposal instantly? 

This is a common thing I have seen go awry for years, great enclosure set ups with a number of animals and no where to house them if one becomes ill and even fewer with quarantine enclosures, but thats getting off topic.

Ackies and Sandy's are completely different monitors, firstly an Ackie can bite a finger a Sandy can eat it.

Are Ackies really the next logical step?? I would have thought Gillen's or Storr's...

Another question for based on something Reptilian66 said - you say you keep Ackies, so how long have you had yours and have they successfully bred for you??? Are your husbandry needs right for them??

Reptilian66 "if you don't do this research first up, they will only suffer and live a very short life in captivity and wont ever breed for you." 

WORDS TO LIVE BY, IF CONDITONS AREN'T RIGHT = SHORT LIFESPAN!!


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## waruikazi (Jun 24, 2009)

Woosah!!! lol chill pill everyone.

I think we need to put more responsibility on the breeders. I have no idea why someone would agree to sell 4 large monitors to anyone wihtout doing some serious resume` checking first.

I've refused to sell many animals to lots of different people because i didn't think they owuld cope with them. It's way too easy to go out and buy these kinds of animals legally.


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## KatshirT (Jun 24, 2009)

A very good point, maybe the seller should have some space to talk??

Maybe Reptillian66 should state what he asked for before he would sell his Sandy's, and what they needed to show and prove before they could take ownership??


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## TWENTY B (Jun 24, 2009)

how about this guys, 
instead of telling me i shoudn't get them, couse i know nothing, 
try giving some good advice, beaouse then i will know something, 
and others car read it to, then they will know something as well, 

OR, you can stop posting in this thread 

i'm having all these useless posts deleted,


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## KatshirT (Jun 24, 2009)

We are trying to give you good advice, start small and work your way up.

Reptilian66, waruikazi and I are all trying to advise you start with 1 and see how things progress don't jump in half a***d to the detriment of the little guys.

Your choice to listen or not but really are you ready?


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## slacker (Jun 24, 2009)

Here's a thought (and do with it what you will -- it's only a thought)... if you're only getting four to be sure that you get a pair, perhaps you could ask the breeder to attempt Danny's 'hemipenal transillumination' sexing method (http://varanidae.org/Vol3_No1_Brown.pdf), which if they're small enough may give you sexed a pair.

Good luck with your critters.


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## richardsc (Jul 1, 2009)

white sand wont hold burrows,use red sand mixed with brickies sand,so what if it discolours them,they shed there skin so will shed discolour everytime,sand that holds good burrows is more important than white sand that stops them getting discoloured but wont hold a burrow

also 4x2x2 is fine to start off with a group of juvie sandys,just upgrade as they grow,with sandys kept correctly,will be needing upgrading with in 6 to 12 months,also if keeping 4 together u need to consider the possability that as they grow they may not get along as a groupsome do,some dont,but if they dont you will need somewhere to put them,also feeding 4 adult sandys together isnt for the faint hearted,especially when they all want the first rat

congrats on your choice,sandys are a nice animal,they constantly dig and love burrows,so apart from heat, thats one thing id strive to provide them,good luck with them


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## richardsc (Jul 1, 2009)

oh guys,twenty b has wanted 4 sandys for probably well over a year,he had a wanted 4 sandys up in his posts for as long as i can remember,from talking to him in the past i think he has there best interests at heart,but as has been suggested,if planning on housing 4 adults together,id be looking for a fair wack bigger than 8 foot by 4 foot x 2 foot,thats minumum for a pr i reckonplus add in a foot of sand


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## richardsc (Jul 1, 2009)

he has ridgeys,so i believe he did start small and is now working up,just an observation


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## lizardsNturtles (Jul 1, 2009)

nice monitors reptilian and im thinking to get ackies and il go with one to start off with


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## TWENTY B (Jul 1, 2009)

thanks richard.. 
thanks to Danny's technique it looks like i'll be getting 2 male, 2 female


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## KatshirT (Jul 1, 2009)

Wanting something and being able to house it and care for it appropriately are 2 very different things.

If the seller believes they are making a fair sale as Waruikazi has mentioned, great!

If you Richardsc believe with what ever experience you have, (not being rude, but I don't know) that he is capable of caring for four individual monitors that are more of a handful than Ackies, especially only 2 great!

I just feel for the animals that a person would purchase 4 and then decide to do some research and ask questions of people about care and housing them...

I think Waruikazi and Reptilian66 hit the nail on the head, TwentyB has has the opportunity to ask questions of someone with 30 years experience and didn't and the seller is probably a little naive to sell 4 animals to an apparently ill prepared person..

And In Closing....

If TwentyB only wanted a pair why not only take that after this new method of sexing revealed 2 Males and 2 Females??


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## TWENTY B (Jul 1, 2009)

look.
I'm getting 4. That's set in concrete. You can bitch about it or help me look after them the best i can.
I have the help of a few very experienced keepers both online and through my herp society.
I've spent countless hours reading everything i can find no medium and large monitors. Now it's time to put all that theory into practice.
Althoug i might ask what looks like a very basic questions, it's more that i want to confirm something than i know nothing. 

So lets keep it no topic, because everything that goes here should help others in the future learn more about there wonderful creatures before they get them.


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## richardsc (Jul 1, 2009)

2 pairs is good,well done,pm if u need any advice

katshirt,knowing me or not doesnt mean a thing,someone wants to get 4 sandys good on them,if he didnt care about there well being dont u think that its odd hes asking for advice on here so when he recieves them he can give them the care they need, instead of dissing and writing the animals off,give the man some credit


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## FAY (Jul 2, 2009)

Please keep the chit chat out of it.
Just helpful advice thanks.This info can also help other members as well as twenty.


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## richardsc (Jul 5, 2009)

i believe sandy males generally need to be mature for the xray to pick up anything so xraying juvies is worthless,danny browns method sounds good,ill have to try it


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## TWENTY B (Jul 5, 2009)

danny's method works very well by the look of things..
seems i'm actually getting 1male - 3 females..
clear diference can be seen between them


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## richardsc (Jul 6, 2009)

1 male and 3 females is perfect,females also being smaller as adults compared to males to,plus with multible females the male,if in the mood wont just have one female to hassle,best way to learn is personable experience,thats owning and caring for them,getting them as juvies,u get to do that,and with the experience and knowledge,you will see what they need as they grow,everyone has there way of doing things,so doesnt mean u have to do what someone else suggests,with monitors and the info out there,so many people have success and do it differently than others


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## antmisk (Jul 12, 2009)

This is the way I raised my sandies from Hatchie’s to adult, some of you may have different ideas but this worked for me. I also followed a similar regime for my lacies and spencers.

Enclosure 

Hatchling monitors are housed in a homemade melamine enclosure. It is 900 mm x 600 mm x 600 mm. I offer a temperature gradient of 47 degrees at the hot end, down to 26 degrees at the cool end I prefer to keep the temps up as monitors really seems to respond well to the heat. 
Housing is best provided in the form of an outdoor pit if you are located in the monitors natural climate. If living on the east coast, an outdoor pit is still suitable as long as particular attention is paid to always providing a selection of dry hides. Supplemental heating would be necessary for southern climates. This could be in the form of a heat cord installed under a false floor in the hide, or a heat globe (preferably ceramic) installed in the ceiling of the hide. 
My pair are currently kept in an outside aviary measuring 4.5 x 2.0 x 2.0 the substrate is river sand mixed with soil @ about 60 cm deep. 
. My enclosures are not planted out as sand monitors tend to dig out plants. A few hollow logs, a basking platform, and a large tray for water is all that is provided. For outdoor enclosures, it is necessary to prevent digging out by way of tunneling. Wire placed under the enclosure will stop this.

Enclosure Furniture 

Indoor enclosure furniture provided is basically rocks and logs make sure these cant be undermined causing possible injury to your monitors. A large basking rock is best provided at the hot end which will also retain heat throughout a lot of the night and should become a favorite sleeping spot for the monitors. Logs which allow the monitor to crawl in and almost wedge itself are ideal. These monitors seem to feel more secure when they are able to be touching the walls of their hide-spot. A small water dish is supplied at the cold end of the enclosure. Make this a heavy bowl to prevent it being tipped over
Heating 

Indoor enclosures, hot spot temps of around 47 degrees must be provided . 
Ambient temps with this species is acceptable at around 25 - 28 degrees. This needs to be monitored though and you must ensure the heat gradient does not vary too dramatically over any area of the enclosure. To provide these temperatures, I run a 100 watt reflector globe at the hot end. Night heating (I do not) this would best be done I feel by a low-wattage heat cord under a tile this would ensure the monitor's day-night cycle is not disturbed and tend to last much longer than red globes. 
Heating is run for approximately 10 hours a day, switched off by a timer. 
Lighting 

Because my heating source is white-light emitting reflector globes, it is not necessary to provide any other form of enclosure lighting. 
It also seems that many people who have experience with dragon lizards and progress onto monitors feel it necessary to provide UV light. While this is a good thing that they will do this for their animals, there are no known benefits that monitors receive from UV exposure. My suggestion would be to put your monitor into a sunning enclosure for about half an hour on enclosure-cleaning day. 

Feeding 

Diets of captive Sand Monitors should be wholesome and varied. Whole prey items should be offered like cockroaches, meal worms, & pink mice when hatchlings. Mice, chickens, rats, quail when larger. Chicken necks & kangaroo meat can also be used . Try to avoid processed food like dog & cat food. Attention must be paid to ensure the monitor is not overfed, which is a common problem in captive specimens. Juveniles will eat a diet of crickets, roaches, pinkie mice and other insects. 
When the monitor is larger, whole-mammalian diets are preferred. This provides all their nutritional requirements. Prey is mostly swallowed whole. My Sand Monitors are currently fed on a diet of mice, rats, & day-old chicks, . 
My adult monitors are fed every 3 - 5 days, depending on the size of the last meal. A growing monitor should be feed everyday. For hatchlings I feed enough chopped up pink mice, crickets or cockroaches, of appropriate sizes, until the monitor no longer shows interest in eating. Then throw in a few more later in the day. The size of the prey should be adjusted to the size of the monitor as it grows. Prey should not be wider than the width of the monitor's head. Smaller prey items are easier and more efficient for a monitor to digest. 

Handling 

I only handle my monitors when it's necessary. This means the monitors are generally less stressed. 
This may be a different story with a hatchling, as they do get used to being handled & can become quite tame. Just keep in mind that they can do a great deal of damage to hands and fingers if they do bite or dig in their claws.
When handling any my adult monitors with larger claws, I recommend and use a pair of leather gloves. A good habit to get into is giving your monitor a check over for any health problems whenever they are handled. 
Breeding 
To successfully breed sand monitors you must first look at caging and ensure you have enough space, correct temperature gradients and daylight length for the season. Mine being kept outside are subject to the seasonal changes automatically. Winter average min. 12.1c high 22.8c and Summer average Min 19.4c High 37.1 c .
During winter they are able to dig in and brumate coming out when the weather warms up in spring.
The second thing to look at is food. I believe as do others that food has a direct bearing on breeding behavior. Feeding quality whole prey items more often is thought to trigger a breeding response and if kept up can result in multiple clutches being laid.
Mating activity was observed during October & November with eggs being laid in December.
My first attempt at breeding produced 8 eggs of which 4 were good they were incubated at a temp of 31 c on a 1:1 per weight ratio vermiculite : water and hatched 186 days later


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## richardsc (Jul 13, 2009)

excellent advice there


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