# Check your wiring people!



## Smittiferous (Jul 17, 2016)

I'm just going to leave these here...

































Most are from an enclosure I purchased years ago, already wired and ready to go. The rest are from an already used example of commercially-made and readily available, plug-and-play enclosure wiring kits I decided to have a close look at. House fires and destroyed collections waiting to happen. I would urge everyone to be mindful of what goes into your enclosures.


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## Stuart (Jul 17, 2016)

Cheers for sharing, thats a damn good example of what can and will go wrong if you are complacent.


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## CrazyNut (Jul 17, 2016)

Be on the look out for blue substance. A blue substance is indictive of a presence of copper sulfate and/or copper carbonate - which is a result of the copper wires begining to decompose. It will most likely occur before any charring is visible. Seen it on old batteries before. This warning should probaly go out for all electrical appliances esspecially things like phone chargers, kettles, ovens etc. Last thing we want to hear is someome lost there house and belongings to an electrical fire.


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## Ramsayi (Jul 17, 2016)

Lots of things wrong with that setup.

Fitting screwed directly to timber,put a piece of fibro or similar in between.
Use high temp wire from fitting to the outside of the enclosure and into a junction box then connect up to normal flex.
Use of silicone near the termination is next to useless.High temp sleeves should be used.


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## pythoninfinite (Jul 18, 2016)

Yep, Ramsayi has probably made the most important points - insulation between the heating device and the roof of the cage, and the use of high-temperature wiring where high wattage lamps​ or any heating d​evice is used. There's potential disaster waiting to happen whenever keepers go to Bunnings and buy what they think is suitable and doing it at home. As far as I know, high-temp cabling isn't available at normal hardware outlets, you'll have to go to electrical suppliers to get it.

Jamie


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## Smittiferous (Jul 18, 2016)

What I am most concerned about is some of that deteriorating insulation and copper is from something sold commercially as a pre-wired plug and play kit for enclosures. I don't know what kind of punishment it has been through before it came to me but it's still concerning, given that the average consumer would take for granted its safety and suitability for what it's intended for. Needless to say I've binned it.


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## pythoninfinite (Jul 18, 2016)

I'm not sure those ceramic sockets are available as a prewired unit - I've used quite a few of them in the long-distant past, and always had to wire them myself. I never liked them though, they are brittle and it can be quite difficult to get a good tight junction between wire & screw. I think they were probably locally wired by a backyarder.

Jamie


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## BrownHash (Jul 18, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> I think they were probably locally wired by a backyarder.
> 
> Jamie



One of the dangers of second-hand enclosure, which i think Smittiferous was getting at. Its always good to check your wiring, even if it isn't a DIY job.


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## kingofnobbys (Jul 18, 2016)

better still ,unless you are a trained sparky, don't mess with wiring , get a local licenced sparky to check it over to ensure it's safe / fit to use.

Chances are if you did a DIYS wiring job and a fire resulted , your house and contents insurer is likely to reject your claim.


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## Smittiferous (Jul 18, 2016)

[MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] they are, actually. Won't name brands but I see them for sale quite often in aquarium shops. They come on a disk thing (which you can see in one of the pictures) and have a flex that terminates in a 3-pin plug similar to a computer power supply, then another flex that goes to your timer/wall outlet etc. 
[MENTION=11565]BrownHash[/MENTION] [MENTION=41275]kingofnobbys[/MENTION] I had one sparky come in and wire an enclosure for me in the exact same fashion as the one above. Qualified =/= doing it correctly.


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## pythoninfinite (Jul 18, 2016)

Ah OK, I admit I've not used them for 10+ years, and I never spend time (or money!) in the sorts of sales outlets that might sell them. I don't keep lizards so have been solely using heat cords for the last 10-12 years. Do they come from China? If they're a ready-made item for sale in this country, it might be worthwhile notifying Consumer Protection about the matter, especially the failed insulation, and see if they can be withdrawn.

Jamie


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 18, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> [email protected] @kingofnobbys I had one sparky come in and wire an enclosure for me in the exact same fashion as the one above. Qualified =/= doing it correctly.


It concerns me gravely when someone accuses a professional electrician of purportedly sub-standard work. I have friends and relatives in the trade and what they have all conveyed to me at some time or another is that from day-one of their training, they have had two things drilled into them. The first is that there is no room for errors - as people’s lives are at stake, including their own. The second is that there is no such thing as a “shortcut” when it comes to electrical wiring and fittings. 

So your comments raise some serious questions and concerns for me. Did you employ and pay a practising electrician? Are you certain that the wire used by the electrician was exactly same as that in the photos displayed? Did the electrician advise you about limits to the wattages that were safe to use in the outlets provided? Have you since had any problems or perceptible degradation with the work that was done?

Problems can and do arise when people that are not fully qualified do their own wiring. For example, a lack of understanding of things such as ‘current draw’ due to wattages of appliances and the corresponding heating effects related to this can result in overheating of electrical wiring, especially where the external insulating sheath has been removed. Another is the heat production of the various appliances being utilised and whether or not this heat will likely be readily dissipated. 

For example, the hard plastic sockets in ceiling lights are acceptable for incandescent globes up to 100W, where there is no enclosure of a light fitting. The airflow around an exposed ceiling fitting provides adequate cooling to eliminate any chance of a fire. Put the same light into an enclosed fitting or use a higher wattage and it is a different story. In such cases a non-flammable ceramic fitting is then required. Along the same lines, down-light fittings don’t have the same air flow around them that exposed sockets do and so have a totally different set of criteria that apply. 

Applying this to reptile enclosures, the often reduced airflow around high wattage bulbs utilised requires someone with the appropriate understandings and knowledge to set it up safely. Something the DIY person copying light fittings in the home may not be capable of doing. While experienced keepers likely have the ken required, the majority of newer keepers would be well advised to seek the advice and approval, if not the full services, of a qualified practising electrician in my opinion.


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## Murph_BTK (Jul 18, 2016)

Wait... i have just gotten and wired up a few extra fittings for my future projects.. now reading this i am second guessing that.. reason i did it was beacuse i and sick of being fisted by the petstore chains etc make a huge buck on a market that is still growing.. all for people making money but the inflation is extreme at times.. hence why i have wired up my own.. haven't used them yet but was planning on putting one into service this coming weekend..


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## kingofnobbys (Jul 19, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> It concerns me gravely when someone accuses a professional electrician of purportedly sub-standard work. I have friends and relatives in the trade and what they have all conveyed to me at some time or another is that from day-one of their training, they have had two things drilled into them. The first is that there is no room for errors - as people’s lives are at stake, including their own. The second is that there is no such thing as a “shortcut” when it comes to electrical wiring and fittings.
> 
> So your comments raise some serious questions and concerns for me. Did you employ and pay a practising electrician? Are you certain that the wire used by the electrician was exactly same as that in the photos displayed? Did the electrician advise you about limits to the wattages that were safe to use in the outlets provided? Have you since had any problems or perceptible degradation with the work that was done?
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more .... it's fool who attempts 230V AC wiring if they are NOT adequately trained. 

All the wiring done in enclosures is connected to the mains (230V AC) and potentially lethal.

Also few reptile hobbyists have the knowhow or training to contemplate DIYS wiring of their enclosures , the wiring is best done plug and play mode with fittings etc that are simply plugged into powerboards or the wall or a floor socket. 
If it requires connecting up wires - leave it to a licenced sparky or at least an electrical technician DON'T try to do it yourself just to save a few $ , a few $ is not worth your life or that of your family if the dodgey DIYS wiring results in an electrical overload and a fire.


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## hilly (Jul 19, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> I couldn't agree more .... it's fool who attempts 220V AC wiring if they are NOT adequately trained.
> 
> All the wiring done in enclosures is connected to the mains (220V AC) and potentially lethal.



Australian mains voltage is 230V.


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## Smittiferous (Jul 19, 2016)

[MENTION=41842]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] Perhaps I should elaborate on my statement....

The electrician I employed was a qualified and practising A grade electrician. His work itself is very neat and tidy. However only standard 3-core cable was used, rather than heat-resistant stuff, and the ceramic batten holders were also fixed straight to the timber enclosure with no fire-retardant or heat resistant material in between the two. 
He also did not advise me regarding any maximum wattages or precautions, even though I made it clear what I intended to be using: ceramic heat emitters and lights ranging up to 100 watts, which would be in use for extended periods. I should also point out that the highest wattage bulbs and ceramic heat emitters used in the photos in my original post were sixty watt, no higher. 

Seven months on, there doesn't seem to be any degradation of his work I have seen, but in the enclosure he wired once again the highest wattage bulb is sixty watt, and I haven't even bothered with fitting the heat emitter, ambient temps are fine without it. 
[MENTION=41275]kingofnobbys[/MENTION] I don't think anyone is advocating untrained persons doing their own electrical work. The point of my OP was to encourage others to pay attention to the state of the electrical works done in their enclosures where continued heat output over long periods is the norm, and not take for granted that "everything's fine", and that if contracting the services of a licensed electrician to do wiring work in an enclosure, to do some prior research on appropriate materials to use and insist on their use.
[MENTION=41842]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] I also feel I should add that I've been on sites that have been closed due to licensed A grade electricians mucking up wiring so badly that the auditing electrical engineer evacuated the site until it was rectified. Several times. While I respect the level of training that is given especially in terms of safety requirements, I do have a rather jaded view (and I feel deservedly so) on the notion that simply being qualified means that an individual tradesperson conducts their work safely and appropriately. I see a lot of terrible attitudes amongst trades on a regular basis, across the board, in terms of both safety standards and general quality of work.

I realise that some may take that in a fashion that I don't intend. All I'm saying that a course and a piece of paper don't solely make someone safe and competent, individual attitude has a great deal to play in the role.

/rant


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## kingofnobbys (Jul 19, 2016)

hilly said:


> Australian mains voltage is 230V.


 Typo , I meant to type 230.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 21, 2016)

@Smittiferous. Your posts are clearly well intentioned and based on concern for others. The message of carefully checking wiring on all newly acquired enclosures, and doing so periodically for those that have been in use for a while, is wise and I applaud it. 

There were, however, two points that troubled me. The first is your statement that the electrician you hired to do the wiring job did not do so appropriately i.e. not safe. The second is that the type of wiring job he did can result in the same outcomes as your photos for anyone. Uneasy about this, I have been giving the matter a fair bit of thought (even brushed up on a bit of chemistry along the way).

Let’s deal with the second. Copper oxidises to black copper (I) oxide with heat and exposure to air. This is normal and can be seen on the exposed ends of old copper wire circuits. Fortunately, it doesn’t matter. Somewhat uncommonly, this coating of oxide on the wire still conducts electricity. 

However, to form the blue copper salts shown, be they carbonates/chlorides/sulphates or whatever, from metal copper, requires significant moisture and also the addition of acid and salts. This can happen naturally, although rather slowly, with exposure to rain. Dissolves carbon dioxide in air forms carbonic acid and air-borne ocean salts are also present. Or it can happen more quickly with the circuits having been exposed to something like water from a marine aquarium. In addition to the copper salts formed, the steel (iron) at the base of the bulb holder shows graphic rusting. Again, this requires exposed to significant moisture over a period of time to happen. 

Clearly, the copper wiring was exposed to salty water at some stage and for some period of time. Obviously not when in use, otherwise it would have shorted out the electrics. Maybe it somehow got slurped on it while in storage? It is my guess that the resulting corrosion this allowed has resulted in the thinning of the copper strands at this point. This has caused an increase in electrical resistance, with a corresponding increase in the amount of heat being produced. This abnormal heating was sufficient to degrade the wire sheaths and to char the wood in those areas where the heat could not escape readily. But as I say, that’s only surmise. 

What is beyond doubt is the exposure of the wiring to salt and water for a significant period of time – something that does NOT happen with normal (appropriate) usage.


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## Sheldoncooper (Jul 21, 2016)

I dont use them globe sockets at all because i don't like exposed wires i use the bigger flat sockets as they allow me to crimp the wire into a fitting which goes under the screw a bit like a washer.


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## Smittiferous (Jul 21, 2016)

[MENTION=41842]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] That was really quite informative. Thanks!

I'll provide a little more background on the enclosure in question. It was purchased by myself in 2011, as a freshly-converted, already wired setup. It had once been an ornate television unit. Since it's conversion and sale, I have been the sole user/owner. I originally had a bearded dragon reside within, then after a period of a few months of being unused, my carpet python moved in. At absolutely no period of time has it ever had any exposure to salinity, and very little in the way of humidity, with nothing other than a basic small water bowl on the enclosure floor. Never once have I noticed any kind of condensation on the glass at the front, which would be a clear indicator of high humidity within. If deterioration of the wiring was caused by salinity, it's beyond me as to how.


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## Sheldoncooper (Jul 21, 2016)

I have some of my scarlaris enclosures at 70 to 80% humidity and have never had a problem the heat from the fixture should keep the area that close relatively dry


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 21, 2016)

@Smittiferous. You have confirmed that it was in storage and that, I believe, is when the problem would have occurred. Could a wife, partner, your children, visiting neighbours kids, maybe nieces or nephews etc had any possible access? A spilt soft drink not mopped up would have been sufficient to do the damage. Ignoring everything else, the question I would ask you is how else could the steel (iron) on the base of the batten go so rusty without being exposed to significant moisture for a length of time? It wasn’t even exposed directly to the atmosphere...


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## Smittiferous (Jul 21, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> @Smittiferous. You have confirmed that it was in storage and that, I believe, is when the problem would have occurred. Could a wife, partner, your children, visiting neighbours kids, maybe nieces or nephews etc had any possible access? A spilt soft drink not mopped up would have been sufficient to do the damage. Ignoring everything else, the question I would ask you is how else could the steel (iron) on the base of the batten go so rusty without being exposed to significant moisture for a length of time? It wasn’t even exposed directly to the atmosphere...



I kept the enclosure locked over that period of dis-use, and it has timber swinging doors as well which I had closed, to prevent my curious kids from being too curious. Likelihood of soft drink being spilled inside is slim to none, really. Not to mention even if it were possible, the enclosure is stored upright, and unless I'm misinterpreting what you're suggesting, the enclosure has always sat upright, with the wiring and sockets on the ceiling, to get soft drink spilled on the sockets would require it squirted or thrown upwards. 

Along the line of thought of exposure to salts... 

Would sealants, varnishes, lacquers used on the timber contain such salts?


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 21, 2016)

OK. I was hoping avoid getting too technical, but I do suspect there is also another concurrent problem. The shiny and not quite smooth finish on the iron alloy at the base of one of the bulb holder is not what I would expect from an Australian Standards product. It makes me wonder how much aluminium has been alloyed with the iron. A,luminium is a more reactive metal than copper and its expansion and contraction is significantly greater. It also forms a non-conductive oxidised outer coating, which copper does not. If there is significant aluminium in the iron and aluminium screwshave also been used in the connectors as a result, then you can get electrolytic transfer of aluminum metal that coats the copper (i.e. galvanising). Due to the non-conductive nature of the oxidative outer layer that forms on the aluminium, this brings about an increase in resistance and an increase in heat production. There is also the loosing effect that would occur with aluminium screws contacting the copper wiring - due to continual differential rates of expansion and contraction between the two metals as they heat up and cool down with on/off use. This loosening will also increase the resistance and therefore the heat production. The foregoing is pure speculation but supported by what I can see.
The other potential issue is the actual nature of the wire used. Assuming it is pure copper, it still needs to be of a certain cross-sectional area fo be used safely with the voltage and current invoved. As the degradation of the sheathing around the wires appears to be localised in the vicinity of the connections, I doubt this a significant contributing factor. 

How do you account for degree of rust on the bottom of one of the bulb holders if there was no significant moisture?


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## pythoninfinite (Jul 22, 2016)

Good grief... 

Jamie


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## Smittiferous (Jul 22, 2016)

[MENTION=41842]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] Simply, I can't account for rust at all. Some of the bulb holders also had a bead of silicone smeared around the base, "sealing" them to the timber blocks they were mounted on, would that not in theory add an additional barrier against direct contact with moisture? You can still see the remnants of it in the image. 

I'll take another couple of decent close-ups when I get home from work of that socket, and post them up.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 22, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> I'll take another couple of decent close-ups when I get home from work of that socket, and post them up.


Don’t worry about that at this stage. Was not well the last few days but am feeling better and thinking more clearly today. I’m beginning to wonder if the corrosion wasn’t secondary to real problem. Can explain later.

I should not have dismissed the mixing of aluminium and copper wiring so quickly. Ion transfer is limited to direct contact i.e. the junction of the wires. However, heating from thinning of the wiring would be readily conducted along the metals, hence the length of heat affected sheath. 

Cut a notch in the sheath and then scrape the wire to expose the fresh metal. are all wires coppery or are there some silver coloured?


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## GBWhite (Jul 22, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> Good grief...
> 
> Jamie



Not wrong...old teacher syndrome...hahaha!

George.


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## moosenoose (Jul 22, 2016)

I made my enclosures using MDF. Which makes it near impossible to light up. The switchboard will throw a RCD before anything really fun happens...I hope lol


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## Smittiferous (Jul 22, 2016)

[MENTION=41842]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] So I checked the condition of the copper core on several places. Where the flex was in reasonable condition (eg not stiff or discoloured) the copper was a typical shiny copper colour, as one would expect. Even after scraping the surface of that, I didn't find any silvery strands. 

I also scraped back a couple of sections where the insulation had deteriorated enough to become inflexible. The copper wires looked very dull, with a light, fine powder over the surface. Interestingly the powder had a different hue dependant on insulation colour. Blue/green for neutral and brown (almost indistinguishable from the copper itself) for active. 

Of the four sockets originally in this enclosure, two had more serious rust on the mounting brackets, one had a small level of oxidisation and one had none at all. For the two sockets with the most rust, the rusted portion of the bracket was underneath the silicone bead that had been run around the base of the socket. All four sockets were in fairly close proximity of each other.


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## apprenticegnome (Jul 23, 2016)

Could an acidic silicone initiate rusting and corrosion?


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## Stompsy (Jul 23, 2016)

apprenticegnome said:


> Could an acidic silicone initiate rusting and corrosion?



Silicone is oil based so in my very limited knowledge, I'd assume not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## apprenticegnome (Jul 23, 2016)

Silicones that have a strong vinegar like smell are generally acid cure as opposed to neutral cure silicones. When I've used silicones building and repairing aquariums in the past they were of the acid cure variety and commonly bought from any hardware. I only found out when looking at repairing our caravan about neutral cure v's acidic cure and some of the pitfalls for either type.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jul 26, 2016)

[MENTION=25504]apprenticegnome[/MENTION]. My apologies for not having responded to your earlier post. You are quite correct. Anyone who has mended or constructed an aquarium would be well aware of the ‘vinegar smell’ the silicone used develops when curing. This is because this type of silicone sealant/adhesive produces acetic acid. Other types produce neutral chemicals and a very few produce alkaline chemicals.

If the sealant used in this case produced a chemical capable of reacting with the metallic parts of the light battens, then one would expect each area where the silicon was in contact with the metal of the batten to be affected. This is clearly not the case.


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## pythoninfinite (Jul 26, 2016)

Neutral-cure silicones were produced initially for the roofing and plumbing industries because the acetic acid cure products destroy the galvanizing or zincalume coatings on steel roofing or guttering products. As far as silicones in general are concerned, there are new products coming onto the market every year, so there's no such thing as a "general" silicone these days, most of them have specific applications for use in particular circumstances, so it's up to the user to ensure the correct choices are made. This is particularly important when using them as adhesives because not all of them adhere well to all surfaces, especially for long-term applications.

Jamie


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