# Albino Jungle !!!



## Frozenmouse (Mar 14, 2009)

Are there any in aus?


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## bigi (Mar 14, 2009)

from what i have heard yes of course there are, getting pics on the otherhand could be difficult


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## iceman (Mar 14, 2009)

that look like this one,


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## funcouple (Mar 14, 2009)

i believe so. but its still guarded


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 14, 2009)

Iceman is that an albino nt line bred into a jungle line


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## Jason (Mar 14, 2009)

Iceman.... is that the one posted on herptrader a couple of years ago for sale as a jungle? i have the same picture on my computer.


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## arbok (Mar 14, 2009)

pretty much just going to be a group of cross breeders or what have you breeding them from the albino darwin, this means in the future i suppose its going to be very hard to ever tell if there is a "legit" albino carpet of anything but the orginal darwin lines?


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## scorps (Mar 14, 2009)

Although it would be possible to get a albino jungle just how it is to get an albino reptile of any other species.


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## arbok (Mar 14, 2009)

scorps said:


> Although it would be possible to get a albino jungle just how it is to get an albino reptile of any other species.



yeah but there will be the impatient ones and in the end it will bugger the bloodlines


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## iceman (Mar 14, 2009)

it seem someone there is cross-breeding the albino darwin line into everything they can.


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## Ramsayi (Mar 14, 2009)

Jason said:


> Iceman.... is that the one posted on herptrader a couple of years ago for sale as a jungle? i have the same picture on my computer.



Got any more info on this Jase?
If it were a few years back then the time frame doesn't add up.Way too early to have an albinox in the flesh.Although the pic isn't the best on this pc I am finding it very difficult to see any jungle influence in that animal.


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## iceman (Mar 14, 2009)

http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Pythons-Breeding/messages/650754.html


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## junglepython2 (Mar 14, 2009)

iceman said:


> http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Pythons-Breeding/messages/650754.html


 
"*Butterscotch is the grandson or great grandson of Blondie. I forget which generation he came from. Still, very beautiful and I am looking fwd to his grandchildren. *

Never knew Blondie was a jungle


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## iceman (Mar 14, 2009)

what i ment to say was " it seem someone out there is cross-breeding the albino darwin line into everything they can." an hell there is more then likely people breeding GTP's with carpet pythons in oz .


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## Jason (Mar 14, 2009)

posted by somebody a couple of months back..... its happening and has been for a few years already.


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 14, 2009)

thats about as much proof as you need albino coastal anyone


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## amazonian (Mar 14, 2009)

A known Reptile smuggler has put albinos over just about every sub species.
I'm sure many here would know who this cross breeder would be.


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## Kersten (Mar 14, 2009)

Damn Amazonian....you beat me to it.


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## junglepython2 (Mar 14, 2009)

amazonian said:


> A known Reptile smuggler has put albinos over just about every sub species.
> I'm sure many here would know who this cross breeder would be.


 
He isn't the only one.


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## amazonian (Mar 14, 2009)

junglepython2 said:


> He isn't the only one.


 
I know.
And this is why the market for albino carpets will crash when compared to the value & demand of albino olives IMO


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## Nagraj (Mar 14, 2009)

amazonian said:


> And this is why the market for albino carpets will crash when compared to the value & demand of albino olives IMO




The relatively more rapid decline in price of albino carpets is already happening before any hybrids have entered the market and is simply the result of availability. Whether you hate hybrids or not you can't blame that on the breeders who produce them.


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## amazonian (Mar 14, 2009)

Nagraj said:


> The relatively more rapid decline in price of albino carpets is already happening before any hybrids have entered the market and is simply the result of availability. Whether you hate hybrids or not you can't blame that on the breeders who produce them.


 
Yes I can.
Because it will be a contributing factor IMO.
Hybrids will not be as widely accepted as pures, contributing to the decrease in price IMO. 
Confusion amongst pure & hybrid species will also drive prices down IMO.

Whether I hate hybrids or not is irrelevant. 
Just as irrelevant to the subject as if you like them or not is.
Personal feelings are aside and only my opinion was given as that is all it is. 
I can't predict the future with certainty anymore than you can, but IMO I am guessing thats what will happen. As for price dropping now, I havn't seen it yet, but I am sure once we see a variety of hybrids and more than a single option for albinos the price will drop dramatically.


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## -Matt- (Mar 14, 2009)

Jason said:


> posted by somebody a couple of months back..... its happening and has been for a few years already.


 
What a shame..


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## Nagraj (Mar 14, 2009)

amazonian said:


> Hybrids will not be as widely accepted as pures, contributing to the decrease in price IMO.
> Confusion amongst pure & hybrid species will also drive prices down IMO.




I agree that prices will drop considerably but it will have nothing to do with the hybrid factor and everything to do with competition for the consumers dollar. I predict that even albino Olive prices will fall faster over the next few seasons due to the variety of other albinos available.


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## =bECS= (Mar 15, 2009)

Nagraj said:


> I agree that prices will drop considerably but it will have nothing to do with the hybrid factor and everything to do with competition for the consumers dollar. I predict that even albino Olive prices will fall faster over the next few seasons due to the variety of other albinos available.



I think most hybrids will end up as $50 specials eventually.

I think with the economic downturn and things like electricity, gas, groceries due to rise even more, the price of snakes overall will fall at least slightly to increase demand. If they dont have it, they cant spend it.....


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 15, 2009)

The problem is being able to spot a hybrid , could you pick a jungle with 12.5% darwin carpet in it? i doubt anyone could even a jungle that is 25% darwin carpet would be hard to pick so when the poor deserved soul that has a line of pure jungles that throws some albinos will have snakes worth no where near as much.
i cant wait to see the all of these secret albino "jungles" that have been baked in peoples backyards flood the market soon after the first legit albino jungle hits the market.


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## CodeRed (Mar 15, 2009)

If you look closely it will say "Made in South Africa" on the underside


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## JasonL (Mar 15, 2009)

All sorts of albino Morelia will be popping up over the next few years, and of course, they will be saying "it just happened"


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## moreliainsanity (Mar 15, 2009)

Dabool said:


> i cant wait to see the all of these secret albino "jungles" that have been baked in peoples backyards flood the market soon after the first legit albino jungle hits the market.


 
JungleXalbinoe darwin are now up to breeding sizes and they are definately a few around, we are talking about 100 percent hets here, now that's just on jungles whatabout the rest of the sub-species that they have been cross with? and don't be surprise that it's not only in victoria:shock:, MH was the only brave one(or fool ) to admit it on an open forum
For some albinoe Carpets that will be offered for sale in the near future will have question mark(cloudy), will depend on the breeders reputation i guess but then again............

Leigh


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Mar 15, 2009)

All hear say, who has seen his animals on this forum? Who cares, bring on the cheap albinos. I for one know that the market has been raped by other breeders charging over inflated prices for something as simple as striped carpet pythons etc. I guarantee you there will be more of a demand for cheap snakes in the near future. There are many more people wanting to keep snakes as a whole than all of the internet professionals. Its common knowledge that people would rather save money than spend money. That is what we call the real world.


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## Retic (Mar 15, 2009)

Don't forget they are also to blame for global warming and the current economic crisis. 



Nagraj said:


> The relatively more rapid decline in price of albino carpets is already happening before any hybrids have entered the market and is simply the result of availability. Whether you hate hybrids or not you can't blame that on the breeders who produce them.


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## caustichumor (Mar 15, 2009)

The price of Albino darwins will drop a lot in the next 5 years, the amount of people with Albino's (or hets) of breeding age must be nearing saturation point to hold the high prices, I can't see how hybridising the albino gene into other sub-species will drop the prices of Darwins however. And I don't think people will be fooled into paying top dollar for a new "Morelia Albino subspecies" be it jungles, diamonds or whatever....


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## horto28 (Mar 15, 2009)

I think the price will drop weather they are x bred or not, spewin cause i have a pair of 100% hets here ready to breed next season, but i do agree the x breeding will speed the process of reducing the value of most snakes, athough most people are not interested in buying xbreeds. and will keep the value of the top end snakes reasonable not overpriced it will end up being a big deal to have pure lines,


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## Tsubakai (Mar 15, 2009)

boa said:


> Don't forget they are also to blame for global warming and the current economic crisis.



New evidence suggests that its actually exotics to blame for the economic crisis.


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 15, 2009)

boa said:


> Don't forget they are also to blame for global warming and the current economic crisis.


 so how much will you be charging for your albino jungles.


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## diamondgeeza (Mar 15, 2009)

Albino Jags in Europe shortly - due to be smuggled back to AU no doubt by about 2012!


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## krusty (Mar 15, 2009)

diamondgeeza said:


> Albino Jags in Europe shortly - due to be smuggled back to AU no doubt by about 2012!




cool i'll take 2 pair.


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## Retic (Mar 15, 2009)

A free one with every pair of Rough Scaled Pythons, shall I put your name in the book ?



Dabool said:


> so how much will you be charging for your albino jungles.


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## diamondgeeza (Mar 15, 2009)

Albino roughie hybrids - would certainly beat having a loofa in the bathroom!


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## spilota_variegata (Mar 15, 2009)

diamondgeeza said:


> Albino roughie hybrids - would certainly beat having a loofa in the bathroom!



Already working on that one  I was thinking more along the line of albino GTP roughie hybrid. You can use them as loofas if you really want - I've never judged people on their sexual orientation...:shock:


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## BROWNS (Mar 16, 2009)

Every albino snakes that exist here in Australia all originally came from wild caught albinoes,so if someone does have an albino jungle I would find it near impossible to believe it came from a fluke breeding rather than found in the wild however who's going to admit they found an albino jungle in the wild as opposed to saying they happened to get lucky and bred them purely by chance and luck"serendipitous breeding" Many people will say albino reptiles were captive bred but most in the know ,know that they were in fact wild caught.

In Australia we have several albino reptiles such as Darwins which began from a single wc animal,wild caught red belly which was breeding size,albino adders that were originally wild caught,the 2 leucistic macs found around Townsville,there was once a wild caught albino bhp here which happened to dissapear and now there are albino bhp's overseas???All albino lines of reptiles other than these crossed mongrels originated from the wild so as mentioned if there are albino jungles they weren't bred by chance in captivity unless by some fluke someone had caught some wild jungles which happened to be hets,either way they still all originated from wild caught animals...jmo


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## paul4 (Mar 16, 2009)

Well i dont think that is completly true Browns but 99.9% right i would say as didnt the albino maccie come from a fluke breeding?
I do know that the albino lace monitor was wild caught and so was the albino woma and darwin carpet and the eastern blue tounge and the alpine blue tounges and various others but not all ... Apparently it does happen at about 1 in 100000 hatchlings in pythons i think i read. 
I also here that there is allready het albino jags here in Aus so i suppose in a couple of years they will be available. Also i have seen pics of granites here also. I cant wait to see some albino BHP's here in aus for sale...
Still alot of exciting breedings to come i reckon . 
Paul


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## BROWNS (Mar 16, 2009)

Hey Paul,how's things mate?Yes I've heard all about the fluke breeding of the albino mac the Snake Ranch has however I have also been told stories contrary to popular belief,this person is still breeding many albino macs however all but the one Snake Ranch has have been born with major birth defects,some sort of lethal gene maybe similar to the leucistics you get from breeding jag to jag.

Cheers!


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## hotdog85 (May 9, 2009)

*albino*

just remember the person thinks a darwin is a jungle so i would find it hard thet they will be able to breed them with all there knowlege combined


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## syxxx (May 10, 2009)

*Albino 'crap'et python*

There's a Het Vic X Darwin for sale on a Vic breeder/shop pricelist if anyone's interested in wasting $3500. JMO but we will see more mutations occuring in our captive reptiles as we continue to breed animals which are closely related ie. from the same clutch or line to preserve a locality or trait allowing recessive genes to be expressed.


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## Reptile_Boy (May 10, 2009)

there is a member breeding a gtpxalbino darwin as well as a rspxalbino darwin ( same male)


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## Jason (May 11, 2009)

paul4 said:


> I also here that there is allready het albino jags here in Aus so i suppose in a couple of years they will be available. Also i have seen pics of granites here also. I cant wait to see some albino BHP's here in aus for sale...
> Still alot of exciting breedings to come i reckon .
> Paul



i have no doubt that there woul be het jags here, we all know jags are here but no one is out with them yet. it will be good when they are they will deffently add another direction for th hobby.... i for one LOVE jags and all the morphs they are playing with. i must say though the granites are one of my favourites. an albino granite or albino granite jag ould be amazing!!


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

Jason,

jags are co-dominant so its either a jag or its a sibling - there are no hets.

Here is one of ours


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## Jungle_Freak (May 14, 2009)

Diamondgeeza
im sure Jason meant ???
Het jags as in ?
het for albino jags 
not het for jag lol

Nice jag by the way


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

Doh - I cannot wait to see albino jags wherever they are first produced and even more so albino granites and albino jaguar granites!


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## Jungle_Freak (May 14, 2009)

Is that a diamond jungle jag ?
is a screamer for sure


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

yes its a 88% DJJ - unfortunately I bought it for the Mrs and not for me!


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## oreo1 (May 14, 2009)

wow!! awsome jag!!! hav you got any more pics?


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

No more of the DJJ at the moment as she is in shed but here are two of my Coastal jaguars. 2nd one is red phase / hypo.


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## oreo1 (May 14, 2009)

:shock: awwww!! oh my gosh they're so cute!! you must be so happy with them. can u send me one over!! plzz!!


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## taylor111 (May 14, 2009)

reminds me of a super tiger retic


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

Give them a couple of years and hopefully they may be popping out the odd nice hatchling or two.


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## taylor111 (May 14, 2009)

lookimg good mate


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## Rainbow-Serpent (May 14, 2009)

iceman said:


> that look like this one,


 I found that picture and made a thread and got told its an albino darwin.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (May 14, 2009)

Now I wanna jag 

Send some of those over here mate!!!!!!


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## diamondgeeza (May 14, 2009)

You guys do not need jaguars as you have plenty of much better natuarl pythons over there together with lots of sunshine, great beers and of course Bundy.

It's just a shame your Vegemite is not a patch on our Marmite otherwise I would consider emigrating!


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## Carpetpythons (May 14, 2009)

Maybe they did put a retention notice on him for 9 months? Test for diseases in his collection? And then given him the all clear because they could not find anything wrong with his collection. Just a thought.


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## Ozzie Python (May 14, 2009)

diamondgeeza said:


> No more of the DJJ at the moment as she is in shed but here are two of my Coastal jaguars. 2nd one is red phase / hypo.


 
I like our local specific or pure animals as much as the next guy, but if these were legal in australia and not imported from o/s i would be putting them straight into the collection and i am sure many would. Beautiful snake diamondgeeza


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## Sturdy (May 14, 2009)

plus 1 to ozzie python
those jags are hot..


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## Carpetpythons (May 14, 2009)

Yes we all have our opinions. And you can test for it If you take a random sample, eithenise them and test for anything dodgy. Maybe we should stop giving our ill informed opinions and leave the real opinions to the scientists and vets that work with this problem every day. Don't worry about things out of your control. Worry about keeping your own collection clean.


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

alninos are only liked because of what they sell for,like in the states with albino burmese,when the *** drops out of the market no one wants them anymore ,crossing albino darwins with jungles doesnt make albino jungles,it makes albino mutts,personally to me a good black and gold jungle craps all over any albino in looks.

im amazed people go gaga at albino threads,but everyone has different tastes,to me albinos look freaky,the eyes are just plain wrong,just my 2 cents


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

mind u jaguars,now they look cool


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## moreliainsanity (May 15, 2009)

They are lovely Jags.........


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

colin,if albinos didnt carry the price tag they do,they wouldnt be as popular,most people are in awe of want they cant afford,and albinos are seen as top end herps,im not against albinos though,ill admit some look great,i just dont get how folk go ga ga over them,picture say an albino jungle,we will say pure jungle,just for fun,lol,picture it sitting next to one of the many awsome black and gold jungle lines out there,looking at the 2 animals side by side i know what id prefer,and it aint the albino.

now most others on here wouldnt look twice at the black and gold jungle,why??????????????

to me an albino looks like a melamine enclosure with no furniture,the black and gold jungle would be a naturalistic enclosure in comparison with looks,thats just me though,i like colors

im not anti albino by the way,just putting in an oppinion,which isnt anti albino,my hats off to those who invest in them and have success,my point was more based on why albinos make folk go ga ga,as to me it isnt looks,but i dont think they look pox,just that to me i cant see me wanting to fork out 4800 bucks for one over a normal appearing hatchy,i love darwins by the way,even melamine ones,lol


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## Jason (May 15, 2009)

richardsc said:


> alninos are only liked because of what they sell for,



Thats a HUGE call.... obviously from somebody that doesnt keep albinos. when you have the chance to get one id recomend it! i have jungles also and o can honestly say they are both nice animals in there own rights but if we are going on temperament and looks, jungles cant be compaired to albinos!!
say what you like but i couldnt give a rats if they were worth 200 each id keep em! people keep animals because they are passionate about them not cause of a dollar value. maybe its you that buy animals on there dollar value?


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

to be totally honest colin,im not a fan of hybrids,but a jag,they sway me,as a display animal they would be awsome i reckon,im not against hybrids as such,what worries me with the whole hybrid thing is dishonesty,passing off animals as a certain species,i see pros and cons of this debate as well as many others,end of the day is everyone has different tastes ,different beliefs,and no one should get burnt what ever way they sit on the subject.

with jags,you know what you are getting,certain forms are this percentage coastal and this percentage jungle,theres at least some honesty there,there not being passed off as say super tiger coastals or something,i used to be anti hybrid,i still arent posative for it,but im not burning the pro hybrid camp either,weather we like it or not there here,better to be out in the open and honest i say

would i try to create jags,no,have never had an interset there,ive never tried breeding pythons,this year im having a crack at darwins,but my main interest is lizards,large skinks and dragons and all sized monitors,ive bred ridgies together that are of unknown origins,isnt that hybridising,many folk who are anti hybrid unknowingly probably do the same


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

jason getting albinos hasnt crossed my mind,we all keep what we like,animals are worth what someone is willing to pay for them,all i said is they dont jump out at me,me,if they jump out at you that is great,non herpers look at me puzzled at what i get,if i invested what u guys have in say things like albinos,imagine there faces then,its a passion,addiction,what ever,end of the day we have what we want,well some of,so many things so little space,lol


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## matt86 (May 15, 2009)

To jump back to a point from much earlier in the thread...
What makes people think that crossing the albino gene into other morelia species will make albinos cheaper?

IMO, it will make 'pure' albinos much more sought after... If not in the short term, definitely in the long term... Look at the States... Big dollars are now being paid for 'pure' animals, because they've hybridized the sh** out of all their species.

That's why it's important to buy from a trusted line... So you have the lineage to back up 'purity' in the future, when 'purity' becomes the most sought after trait.

And to comment on the Jungle/Albino comments made about price/preference... I know people who own Albinos, and still want to buy Jungles... and I know people who own Jungles, and want to buy Albinos!... Everyone has different tastes, and both species have their fair share of admirers!


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

colin i didnt say i hate them(albinos) i believe i said some look great,i asked what it was that attracted folk to them if it wasnt monetary value,I AM NOT DISSING ANYONE,just asked a simple question,i have stated this,all i said is they dont jump out at me to warrant me adding them to my collection,seeing as i only own 5 pythons of 2 different forms,obviously pythons compared to lizards dont jump out at me

im a believer of not crucifying anyone for what they get into reptile wise,unless the animals welfare is at stake,just because i dont get into something,so what,its just one persons oppinion,who cares what i think,if your happy with what your doing then bottom line is thats all that matters and my hat is off to you

the albino comment was a comparison to an albino jungle compared to a very nice black and gold to,not an albino darwin,and was based on looks,and just my oppinion,i prefer the black and golds,if anyone else thinks thats odd,so be it,just my oppinion,everyone is entitled to there own oppinions are they not

sorry if i have offended anyone,wasnt my intention


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

matt but will folk know what is a pure albino


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## bk201 (May 15, 2009)

people need to give up on the hybrid debate
there will always be those who are for it and those who are against it...personal opinions wont change a thing

that is why the government needs to make it clear by removing all native and exotic animals from importers/breeders/exporters etc who import or breed hybrids or exotics to protect the people who pay there licensing fees. and massive fines on people who even own an exotic/hybrid...and a permanent ban from keeping any reptiles....


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

how does asking people what attracts them to albinos say im anti albino,forums are to ask oppinions arent they,i just asked what attracts people to albinos if it isnt monetary value 
because it was stated it isnt a monetary value why they are attracted,

yet im anti albino for asking ,when ive stated i am not anti albino think ill go back to just reading


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## matt86 (May 15, 2009)

richardsc said:


> matt but will folk know what is a pure albino


 
Richard, that's the challenge isn't it...
Which is why I believe it's important to buy from a trusted lineage NOW, so you have a better chance in the future of maintaining credibility... but there is still no guarantee.

And for the record... I don't think you've been an 'albino-hater' in this thread. I think you've conducted yourself very diplomatically, and expressed an opinion. Good on you for preferring Jungles! Variety is what makes the hobby strong!


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## richardsc (May 15, 2009)

thanks matt,i like them all,just some attract my interest more than others


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## diamondgeeza (May 16, 2009)

Out of interest will the Australia beat Europe and the USA when it comes to who is first to produce snow carpets?

Do you guys have many Axantic carpets to do this in addition to all your albinos?

Cheers


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