# I hate expanda-foam...



## melluvssnakes (Jun 9, 2011)

Ok, so most of this has been posted in the DIY Group that Jaxrtfm spent so many hours getting up and running, but because action in there has been so slack (even though we now have the highest number of members) I decided to post this in here as well. 
Now I am not an expert, and I'm not entirely happy with the way that this has turned out so far, but that's what this is all about right, making mistakes and learning from them. So I'll post up the pics that I have, and comment along the way.





I was supposed to build this myself, but unfortunately my boyfriend got bored one afternoon and turned all the MDF that I had so painstakingly cut into this... 




Still, it's not bad and it did save me screaming, pulling out my hair and whatnot. Undercoat to seal and it's time to start the fun part.




I hate expanda foam. But I wanted to try something different, so I just had to put up with it. 




This is after about 5 coats of cement. Because there was so much detail in the wall, I had to use very thin coats of cement to get into all the cracks and crevices. But because the cement mix was so thin, it cracked, flaked and did all sorts of stupid things I didn't want it to do. So i got the shi$'s with it, and decided to try liquid sand stone instead. Here's the first coat that I did this morning.




I love the way this went on, it was just like sloppy sand. Very easy, but the fumes were a bit overpowering. I also really like the look of it, the way that it sits darkly in the low spots, just like real shadow. Plus, the colour means I won't have to put too much paint over it. 
SO now it's just a matter of waiting for that to dry, applying the second coat and see how it goes from there...


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## saximus (Jun 9, 2011)

Haha for someone who says she hates the stuff you've done some pretty awesome work with it Mel


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## redlittlejim (Jun 9, 2011)

wow awesome i think it will be  good luck and keep the pics rollin


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 9, 2011)

No, seriously saximus, I hate the stuff. It gets everywhere, it smells bad and it's really hard to get off your skin. But I do like the effect it gives.


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## Virides (Jun 9, 2011)

melluvssnakes said:


> No, seriously saximus, I hate the stuff. It gets everywhere, it smells bad and it's really hard to get off your skin. But I do like the effect it gives.


 
Rub the skin which would get in contact (hands and arms) with baby oil. Creates a barrier which stops the foam from sticking.

Also, there is a product called Chem-off! I think, it acts in much the same way.


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 9, 2011)

Well thank god the foam part is over for this wall, but I'll keep that in mind for next time. Thanks Scott


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## TaraLeigh (Jun 9, 2011)

Well done. Looks awesome.


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## Banjo (Jun 9, 2011)

Looks awesome mate, just the kind of inspiration I need to get my stimson enclosure underway.


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## mad_at_arms (Jun 9, 2011)

Top Job!
and thanks for the tip virides.


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 10, 2011)

Second coat of sandstone has gone on, and I love it. Will start painting on tuesday


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## Dannyboi (Jun 10, 2011)

Virides said:


> Rub the skin which would get in contact (hands and arms) with baby oil. Creates a barrier which stops the foam from sticking.
> 
> Also, there is a product called Chem-off! I think, it acts in much the same way.


 I think vaseline does the trick too which means you can spread that onto some cardboard and then have a peice of foam


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## bucket (Jun 10, 2011)

i like this idea maybe less messy than cutting up foam.
how many tubes did it take?
What size is your enclosure?


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## Virides (Jun 10, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> I think vaseline does the trick too which means you can spread that onto some cardboard and then have a peice of foam



Any oily residue would work, although baby oil is designed to be less of a skin irritant whereas Vaseline being petroleum based maybe be reactive to some people.


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 11, 2011)

I used way too much expandafoam then I probably should have. About 6 or 7 big cans. Although I did have a hissy fit about half way through and rip about one third of it out, so I had to redo it...


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 11, 2011)

Always use these polyurethane foams in very well ventilated areas - the gases they give off, and the material itself, contain some very nasty chemicals. Always use gloves for that reason as well, and the fact that it can only be removed by abrasion once cured. If it sticks to your skin and hardens without you knowing it's there (under your forearm for example) you will have to remove skin to get it off. Sometimes it becomes brittle and cracks... and so does your skin.

Moisture assists adhesion and curing, so if you get it in your eye, you're in really serious trouble.

Be very careful with it at all times.

Jamie


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 14, 2011)

This was WAY worse then a jigsaw puzzle... But I like it!



Not sure if I'll keep the tiles on the basking shelf yet, Will do some temperature checks and see how warm the tiles get from the basking light.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jun 14, 2011)

Looks great. FYI, when heated, IE from a heat lamp or other, expanda foam releases some extremely toxic fumes.


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 14, 2011)

There is 2 layers of liquid sandstone, and about 4 layers of cement between the expanda foam and any heat source. It should be fine, but I'll keep an eye on things.

Just had a look at the can, and it doesn't say anything about heat and fumes. Where did you get that info Snake_Whisperer?


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## Virides (Jun 14, 2011)

It doesn't have to state on the product that this happens, the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product (from the manufacturer) will mention this.

All petroleum based products produce fumes when heated, it is the nature of the chemicals involved. At normal room temperature most materials give off a chemical compound (usually the smell) and when heated beyond this the volatility increases and the smells (aka fumes) increase.

Your sealer that you have used should act as a barrier, however it may leech through and still cause a problem. Calling the manufacturer will help you identify if this will be a problem.


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 14, 2011)

Well in that case I am now a little bit p/o'd. Has anyone else had problems with the fumes?


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## saximus (Jun 14, 2011)

Plenty of people have made rock walls like this with no issues though...? What if you coat it in a good sealer? Would that hold the fumes in? Maybe you can do a test run with a heat light aimed at it for a day then stick your head (very briefly) in and see if you can smell anything


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 14, 2011)

Problem is that the enclosure is heaps ventilated so you wouldn't be able to tell if there are any fumes.

Oh good lord, I swear I am usually not that dumb. Let's rephrase that last post. One good thing, is that the enclosure is really well ventillated, so any fumes would dissipate very quickly.
Oh, and no I am not blonde. I swear


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## Khagan (Jun 14, 2011)

So.. Is this stuff safe or not? =\ 1 second having people saying it is, then next it isn't. Was planning on using it myself cause i'm too lazy to carve out foam lol.


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## J-A-X (Jun 14, 2011)

I"ve had a scan through several different manufacturer MSDS, and apart from the standard, health warnings about contact and sniffing the stuff, they seem to vary a bit in their extra info, One states it should not be exposed to temps >50c which would mean that if the expanda foam is ' naked" (not covered by several layers of grout/render etc) then exposing it to temps above 50c (EG heat emitter) could produce highly toxic fumes/or catch fire. one of the MSDS commented on not suitable for aquariums, so if anyone is thinking of using expandafoam for aquariums or frog tanks then please reconsider !, if you are using it to shape a unique water bowl for your reptiles then I would recommend triple/quadruple sealing it with an appropriate sealer.

Like most things, common sense should be your guide. If something smells 'chemical' then theres a good chance it has a 'flash point' (a temp that it will ignite without direct flame) 
common sense should also tell you that being a plastic type of substance, both the expanda foam and the normal styrofoam will melt if they get too hot and heat sources placed accordingly. and above all if in doubt look for a better alternative and above all STAY SAFE ! !

its all looking good so far Mel, how many more coats of render/liquid sandstone have you got to put on (I can see white spots in one of the last photos)


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## melluvssnakes (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it'll be fine. There is heaps of ventilation, the heat light is only 60w (may change that to 40w) and it is a fair distance from the background. Plus, it is a spot bulb, so all heat is directed straight down on top of the tiles, rather then focusing onto the foam.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeh, it's just one of those things you know from years in the building industry. I see Jaxrfm has poked around with some MSDS'. Best bet would be to have a squiz at the product specific MSDS. For future reference, stock standard styrofoam does not have this problem. It may or may not cause you grief, as someone mentioned, plenty of people have used it. Just something to be aware of.


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## J-A-X (Jun 14, 2011)

but do be careful if you are using a flame to shape your styrofoam.... nasty fumes. i run a small desk fan behind me to push the fumes away, not very comfortable in the winter but sure beats 'dancing on the ceiling' LOL


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## Jewyy95 (Jun 15, 2011)

looks good post some pics of end product


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