# Myth or fact? Rats and mice



## marteed (Jun 27, 2011)

Not sure if this is the right place to put this
Im wanting to know has anyone heard that rats and mice can make human females infertile?
My mum informed me last night that im about to get a serve from my sister about having rats and mice. Not a problem for me I have had my kids but I have a daughter that may one day want kids.
If this is the case, I would like to know. 
Thanks in advance!!


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## Dark_Morelia (Jun 27, 2011)

She's probably right. You stand a much better chance of getting pregnant with a human.


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## waruikazi (Jun 27, 2011)

I think there is a little bit of truth in it, but i think it has more to do if a woman is already preggers. I think it has something to do with the cryptosporidium (sp) virus.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> I think there is a little bit of truth in it, but i think it has more to do if a woman is already preggers. I think it has something to do with the cryptosporidium (sp) virus.



Is that the same thing you can get from cat poo when you are pregnant. 

I know rats and mice can cause liver probs in dogs, but had never heard of them being able to affect fertility..


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## waruikazi (Jun 27, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> Is that the same thing you can get from kitty litter trays?



Yes but i think cats get it from rodents... i'm bored i'll google it.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Yes but i think cats get it from rodents... i'm bored i'll google it.



I googled "rats and mice make women infertile" and found nothing but talk of lab rats helping women get preg...

the cat thing is called toxoplasmis-


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## Smithers (Jun 27, 2011)

Same here Sarah


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## waruikazi (Jun 27, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> I googled "rats and mice make women infertile" and found nothing but talk of lab rats helping women get preg...
> 
> its call toxoplasmis- the cat thing...



Search cryptosporidiosis, rodents and pregnancy. There is a link and it does get passed on from rodents, through cats and to people but probably not the issue that the OP is trying to find out about.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

"Hamsters, guinea pigs and mice 
Rodents, such as mice, hamsters and guinea pigs, are popular pets in many homes. But women who are pregnant or who plan to become pregnant should be very careful with rodents. These animals may carry a virus called lymphocytic choriomeningitis (LCMV). 

The house mouse, a wild rodent found near and in homes, is the main source of the virus. Pet rodents like hamsters and guinea pigs can become infected with LCMV after being in contact with wild rodents at a breeding facility, pet store or home.

People can get LCMV through contact with a rodent’s urine, blood, saliva, droppings or nesting materials.
The infection can also spread when a person breathes in dust or droplets that have LCMV. Examples: while sweeping up mouse droppings or cleaning out the hamster cage.
Pregnant women who get LCMV can pass the infection to their unborn baby.
LCMV can cause severe birth defects or loss of pregnancy."

Thats a little bit scary... but still not really about fertility...

Pets and other animals during pregnancy | Pregnancy | March of Dimes


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## waruikazi (Jun 27, 2011)

Toxoplasmosis is different to crypto, different virus.

Dang! Rodents are rotten little things! Glad i'm not a woman!



newtolovingsnake said:


> "Hamsters, guinea pigs and mice
> Rodents, such as mice, hamsters and guinea pigs, are popular pets in many homes. But women who are pregnant or who plan to become pregnant should be very careful with rodents. These animals may carry a virus called lymphocytic choriomeningitis (LCMV).
> 
> The house mouse, a wild rodent found near and in homes, is the main source of the virus. Pet rodents like hamsters and guinea pigs can become infected with LCMV after being in contact with wild rodents at a breeding facility, pet store or home.
> ...


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

Ive had crypto before. Spent a weekend in Brisbane watch house- very long story that i wont get into- and obviously their water wasnt very healthy as I spent the next 6 weeks on the toilet. Was a very sick duck.


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## Nighthawk (Jun 27, 2011)

Never heard of it through my 3 pregnancies, and we've been breeding rats for snakes since I was pregnant with my first son in 08. I got the major lecture about toxic plasmosis from cats and birds though. Look at it this way but: if you did absolutely everything you were told to do before/during pregnancy you'd be living on a diet of boiled vegetables, iron supplements and you'd only be able to breathe when *absolutely necessary*. Just read "What to Expect When You're Expecting", one chapter tells you to take ginger for morning sickness and another tells you to avoid it like the plague. Remember: don't lift your arms above your head or you'll have the chord wrapped around the baby's neck in utero... although I'm still trying to figure out which tendons connect my arms to my uterus


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

Nighthawk said:


> Just read "What to Expect When You're Expecting",



I bought this apparently must have book when I was pregnant, I read the first chapter and stopped after it told me there was a 99% chance id lose my baby as I was overweight...


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## Nighthawk (Jun 27, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> I bought this apparently must have book when I was pregnant, I read the first chapter and stopped after it told me there was a 99% chance id lose my baby as I was overweight...



Gah I know; I'm more of an "Ina May's Guide to Childbirth" person. My sister had that awful book (what to expect), we spent her pregnancy laughing at it and cracking jokes about it.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

I have a girlfriend that read every book imaginable and had so much conflicting information that shes still confused as to what to do and is now having baby 3 just to see if she can get it right! lol. I always figured as long as me and bubs are happy stuff the books!


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## marteed (Jun 27, 2011)

Wow, thanks for all the info. I googled it aswell and couldnt find anything thats why i posted it. I actually read one thing that said if a child gets the toxoplasmis they have an immunity when they are older and the virus wont affect the unborn child (not that this was what i was asking about, lol). 
At least now I can debate with her about it all. From what I have read, just about everything can get a different form of this virus, dogs, birds(which she has)


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

Yeah it sounds like an old wives tale, but if she comes up with any evidence, can you keep us informed?


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## marteed (Jun 27, 2011)

Yes definitely. Very scary thought! I was told at 15 my chance of getting pregnant was low due to PCOS(nothing to do with animals), and well.... I have 2 beautiful children.


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## Nighthawk (Jun 27, 2011)

marteed said:


> Wow, thanks for all the info. I googled it aswell and couldnt find anything thats why i posted it. I actually read one thing that said if a child gets the toxoplasmis they have an immunity when they are older and the virus wont affect the unborn child (not that this was what i was asking about, lol).
> At least now I can debate with her about it all. From what I have read, just about everything can get a different form of this virus, dogs, birds(which she has)



I didn't know about the birds myself until my latest pregnancy; we had a crow we were raising to go back into the wild and he'd become attached to me, my midwife warned me about it.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

one of the searches i did said that all animals carry the virus...

i was also told at 16 that id never have children. 4 miscarriages later and i have a beautiful daughter. docs arent always right...


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## Carnelian (Jun 27, 2011)

I think as long as you practice good hygiene it should be alright 99% of the time. I have 4 kids & leading up to & during all of my pregnancies we had hundreds of different animals coming through our door, plus pets & breeding mice for reptiles. The only thing wrong with all of my kids is they all have a love/obsession for Aussie wildlife like both their parents. 
I was informed while pregnant with my 1st I would have to get rid of my cat, my response was " the kid would have to go'. The look I got was hilarious.


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## Snakewoman (Jun 27, 2011)

Sounds like a load of crap... I hope she hasn't been reading Woman's Day :lol:


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## vampstorso (Jun 27, 2011)

toxo is so weird :|
apparently people with it are more likely to be in car crashes as it alters their concentration.

I had to be tested for it recently when my immune system had a bit of a hissy fit, happy too say I'm brain-altering-parasite free 


People back in the day probably had rather frequent contact with rodents (didn't have mouse traps or great storage etc)...and I imagine if they could maintain pregnancy so can the modern women with contact with pet mice


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## Naga_Kanya (Jun 27, 2011)

I nearly rushed out to buy a bunch of rodents to rub all over my face...I'm kinda disappointed this isn't true.


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## cement (Jun 27, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> Ive had crypto before. Spent a weekend in Brisbane watch house- very long story that i wont get into- and obviously their water wasnt very healthy as I spent the next 6 weeks on the toilet. Was a very sick duck.



Yeeeees, well that was because my friend didn't like them there and put a dead cat in the water tank!


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 27, 2011)

oh well thank you to your friend... lol


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## hugsta (Jun 27, 2011)

I wonder what the actual ratio of risk is!!! 1:1,000 or 1:1,000,000 or higher maybe. There is always risk in everything we do, it is what measures we take to minimise the risk that counts. Reptiles carry salmonella, so what chance is there that someone actually contracts it......extremely low.


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## Nighthawk (Jun 27, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> I have a girlfriend that read every book imaginable and had so much conflicting information that shes still confused as to what to do and is now having baby 3 just to see if she can get it right! lol. I always figured as long as me and bubs are happy stuff the books!



I'm kind of in the middle there; I like to go gut instinct most of the time, but there are some books out there which are really good. I like Ina May, anything by her, but mainly because she's fought her way to where she is, has done the research on and off the field and most of what she says makes logical sense such as her views on positioning, pain management and the pros and cons of interventions. She's more or less objective, and the problem these days is a lack of tolerance. You've either got a choice of overly pathological, or uber-militant natural birth. Unfortunately displaying any kind of tolerance either way equals a blasting from either side


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## Tsubakai (Jun 28, 2011)

hugsta said:


> I wonder what the actual ratio of risk is!!! 1:1,000 or 1:1,000,000 or higher maybe. There is always risk in everything we do, it is what measures we take to minimise the risk that counts. Reptiles carry salmonella, so what chance is there that someone actually contracts it......extremely low.



Being conservative I would put the risk at somewhere less than 1:100 000. 

I've learnt to never say never but even catching cryptosporidium is rare and, unless you are immunocompromised or live in a developing nation, the disease is not severe enough to cause significant problems. It is also spread either through contaminated water or person-to-person and is not a major zoonosis as was previously thought. 

The concern about rats/mice and pregnancy is just an old wives tale as far as I can tell. I have just spent half an hour searching the published medical literature (not google) and could not find any articles alluding to a link between rodents and infertility or miscarriage so I would think the risk is minimal.


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## marteed (Jun 28, 2011)

Well I got the "you should be careful having them here with her, she can get an infection and make her infertile". She is studying to be an RN, so everything medical gets thrown our way. She is also somewhat of a drama queen, lol. 
I am definitely agree with what some of you have said, yes the risk may be there but it is also minimal. I make sure she always washes after handling them and the cages are kept clean. Not only for the health of my family and I but also for the sake of the animals. I havent spent all this money on snakes just to have them die from unhealthy food.
I think if you spend all your time worrying about what you hear and read, you would have to remain in a bubble to stay healthy.
Thanks for the responses, I really do appreciate it...


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