# Chameleons Legal or Illegal in Australia



## Alpha_7 (May 7, 2006)

Hi everyone I have a quick question. 

I was wondering if any breeds of Chameleons can be legally kept in Australia ?

Thanks!


----------



## Spike14 (May 7, 2006)

no :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: i really want 1


----------



## MrBredli (May 7, 2006)

Highly illegal.


----------



## Snow1369 (May 7, 2006)

yeah i want one too...!


----------



## Alpha_7 (May 7, 2006)

Thanks everyone, I guessed they might be but found a mention of someone having one, and thought this would be a good place to ask.

What's the closest thing to a chameleon like pet ?? Gecko's ?


----------



## Spike14 (May 7, 2006)

maybe a chameleon gecko? lol n i might edit your last post if i were you dont want to be mentiong freind with exotics on a oublic website . .


----------



## jack (May 7, 2006)

I was in a pet shop in Edinburgh at new year.....baby chameleons about this big...my coat pockets about this big...a return ticket to Aus....damn tempting, 'specially as they were cheap as. Bottom line is for the benefit of the millions of wild herps out there its best if we just put our dreams of chameleons and other exotics to rest.


----------



## Alpha_7 (May 7, 2006)

I didn't know the person, it was a photo I found on the internet that seemed to suggest they lived in australia.. they were probably lying (or as you say doing the wrong thing). But I actually don't know anyone with a pet reptile, hence why I visited here to find people in the know.


----------



## Alpha_7 (May 7, 2006)

jack said:


> I was in a pet shop in Edinburgh at new year.....baby chameleons about this big...my coat pockets about this big...a return ticket to Aus....damn tempting, 'specially as they were cheap as. Bottom line is for the benefit of the millions of wild herps out there its best if we just put our dreams of chameleons and other exotics to rest.



So I can move to Scotland and then I can have some gorgeous pets!


----------



## Spike14 (May 7, 2006)

ahh got ya :wink: do you have the pic now? or can you post it?


----------



## jack (May 7, 2006)

it is almost worth the crappy weather when you see what is available in europe alpha-7. But realy, aside from chameleons and a few other species your better off here though, aussie herps are the best.


----------



## Alpha_7 (May 7, 2006)

Spike14 said:


> ahh got ya :wink: do you have the pic now? or can you post it?



Hope this works - Note the image isn't mine and can be found here http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=326495


----------



## cris (May 7, 2006)

there are chamelion dragons in australia havnt heard of anyone keeping them tho


----------



## mciver (May 15, 2006)

Call me crazy, but, Get a ticket to Scotland say 2 grand. Tee up some cheap accom and a car (online) over there for a few months say allow another 2 grand. Get a visa that lets you do some part time work over there. Jump on the big silver bird, buy your cheap cham. Have him, love him for the duration of your visa, see a bit of Scotland on the side, duck across to Europe in the meantime and see what they're doin', sell the cham back and come home as an ex owner of a beaut rep. Better than never having loved at all. And probably about the same cost as having got one here if they were to be legalised.

Iv'e oversimplified that haven't I?

Name witheld to avoid embarrasment

Best regards


----------



## Scale_Addiction (May 15, 2006)

haha, believe it or not, i think a few of our herpers out there have let exotics 'influence their decision to spend some time in the UK.


----------



## SLACkra (May 15, 2006)

thats a veiled chameleon, very nice animals. i had a female. sadly enough as said above not legal and its not worth risking all the unique ecosystems that exhist in aus just to get to keep an exotic.

andrew


----------



## moosenoose (May 15, 2006)

Damn! Does that mean I'll have to turn my breeding colony in?  .............. :twisted:


----------



## Magpie (May 15, 2006)

Just let them go Moose.
Plenty of people from here have categorically stated that there is no way they could ever become a problem.


----------



## Retic (May 15, 2006)

Or just about anywhere in the world apart from here. :wink: 



Alpha_7 said:


> So I can move to Scotland and then I can have some gorgeous pets!


----------



## SLACkra (May 15, 2006)

> Plenty of people from here have categorically stated that there is no way they could ever become a problem.



imo they wouldn't be able to survive melbournes winters. also imo they should do something like southafrica and classify exotic species as not a threat, threat and unknown. something for example a galopgase giant tortoise is a definate not a threat while red eared sliders would be. 

andrew


----------



## Retic (May 15, 2006)

Andrew, that is absolutely the best thing they could do. Chameleons are no threat to the environment or native animals, assuming they are clean animals.


----------



## peterjohnson64 (May 15, 2006)

I went to the bank recently and had an interesting conversation with the woman behind the counter. Most people in out town know that I keep herps due to some recent publicity. She was very proud to tell me about her friend's chameleon.


----------



## Dicco (May 15, 2006)

Haha, I like it when people say certain exotics are no threat at all, even though there is no evidence to say that  , gotta love heresay and assumption  hehe


----------



## Hickson (May 15, 2006)

Beat me to it, Dicco!



Hix


----------



## Greebo (May 15, 2006)

"Highly illegal"?

Not true. There is no reason why you can't legally keep a chameleon. The only requirement is that you have to open your own private zoo. :lol:


----------



## Retic (May 15, 2006)

Can they be highly illegal ? Is that more illegal than just illegal ?


----------



## Dicco (May 15, 2006)

Yeah boa of course, just like those 'Ultra Modern' houses you hear developers trying to sell


----------



## Moreliaman (May 15, 2006)

Or you could go for the "blue peter" idea.............., get some glue, sticky back tape, scissors, & an old reptile magazine, cut out pics of chamelons & stick them around your home, you could even move them around to confuse your friends into thinking their really moving !, and you can have any specie you want without the fear of prosecution !


----------



## SLACkra (May 16, 2006)

> Haha, I like it when people say certain exotics are no threat at all, even though there is no evidence to say that , gotta love heresay and assumption hehe



now i ment that actually to get an animal onto the ok list would be after alot of research, looking at the animals chance of goign feral in australia and looking at if it has gone feral in other countries. look at their breeding, how many how frequent. what defences they have from predators and what would eat them etc. sadly enough you probably wouldnt' need to even import any animal considering how many illegal ones there already are. then make a new type of licence, eg victoria you got basic, advanced and exotic. to get an exotic licence you need to have a basic or advanced for a couple years or so. 

though i am still pretty undecided, thats one way they could do it but the question i ask myself is "is it worth risking it"

andrew


----------



## Saz (May 16, 2006)

If we were ever allowed to keep exotics, a chameleon would be the first on my list. Here's one a mate of mine held in South Africa recently (wild) whilst on safari. Apparently the 'natives' won't touch them because they think they are evil.


----------



## pythoness (May 16, 2006)

but there just sooooooooooooooooooo cute, how could anything that cute be evil? lol


----------



## Retic (May 16, 2006)

That's the point, they aren't


----------



## Saz (May 16, 2006)

I know, so cute!! They look like they are wearing mittens. I think it's something about the goggly eyes that makes them think they are evil. Can't remember the whole story behind it though.


----------



## SLACkra (May 16, 2006)

well they aren't evil but are they or arent they a threat to become a feral species. do they breed fast enough? will they be able to avoid predators or will they become just another snack? 

one thing we have learned is never introduce a species capable of defending itself with poison....

andrew


----------



## Retic (May 16, 2006)

I think it is fairly safe to say that a chameleon is NOT a potential threat to anything in this country. Whether they would be able to establish feral populations, well who knows but they certainly aren't capable of threatening other species.




SLACkra said:


> well they aren't evil but are they or arent they a threat to become a feral species. do they breed fast enough? will they be able to avoid predators or will they become just another snack?
> 
> one thing we have learned is never introduce a species capable of defending itself with poison....
> 
> andrew


----------



## Hickson (May 16, 2006)

They certainly are, if the species concerned is an invertebrate.

If a small feral population occurred in an area where an endangered insect lived, and the insect was endangered because of it's small distribution, then I'd say that chameleons would be a real threat.



Hix


----------



## SLACkra (May 16, 2006)

> I think it is fairly safe to say that a chameleon is NOT a potential threat to anything in this country. Whether they would be able to establish feral populations, well who knows but they certainly aren't capable of threatening other species.



eating other animals food for one... these little(or insome causes large) guys can hide very efficiently. some species are smaller than you pinky when their adults! i would find it hard to beleive they would be easy to eradicate if they went ferral! alot of research would be nessesary to catagorise animals as safe or unsafe. however some things like giant galapogase tortoises wouldn't be a threat as well if they went feral i think you would be pretty hard pressed to not notice some of the largest tortoise in the world! even when their bubs they're pretty big.

andrew


----------



## Hickson (May 16, 2006)

I could see Galapagos tortoises being a threat if there were feral populations.

Granted, it would take a while for feral populations to build up, but you can't say categorically that they _wouldn't_ be a threat.



Hix


----------



## Guest (May 16, 2006)

what amuses me the most about the pro and con arguments for exotics in Australia  

1. they are not legal here full stop. 
2. the chances of them being legalised is virtually zip.
3. seeing its not likely this situation will change in the near future... 
whats the point of all the pro and con arguments in these forums anyway :roll:
4. Its the same old stuff over and over and over again :roll:


----------



## Retic (May 16, 2006)

Absolutely, imagine what they would do to your veggie patch...........eventually anyway.



Hix said:


> I could see Galapagos tortoises being a threat if there were feral populations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Hickson (May 16, 2006)

boa said:


> Absolutely, imagine what they would do to your veggie patch...........eventually anyway.



Actually, I was thinking about something more important than a veggie patch. Like extinctions.



Colin said:


> whats the point of all the pro and con arguments in these forums anyway



I believe that if I answer the questions, eventually someone might actually understand what I'm trying to say. If that makes sense, then later in life the information may be useful to them.

There are also a lot of people who view this site regularly who are not members of the site, and from overseas. If any of them have similar situations in their countries, my points of view may be of value.



Hix


----------



## Retic (May 16, 2006)

But your point of view seems to be that EVERY exotic animal is a potential threat and you also seem to think that if anyone is pro exotic they don't understand the potential risks of some species. 
I fully understand the possible risks and have always said I am in favour of limited species being allowed to be kept under strict conditions. 

Now obviously anyone who is against the idea will put forward the most extreme scenario like a lizard eating a certain insect and causing it's extinction. 
I fully respect the opinions of everyone pro or anti, we are just talking about a hypothetical situation that we will probably never see so it should never get serious.

One last thing, no-one who keeps either a cat or a dog can be against exotic reptiles.


----------



## Dicco (May 16, 2006)

To assess species to find out if they are of a threat to the environment would be extremely expensive, and you'd be crazy to think that the government would be handing out the cash so people can keep a few more pets, and there is no way the EPA would fork out with all the present environmental problems at hand.

So, without a risk assessment, unknowns need to be treated with cautiuon, the risk of a chameleom causeing a complete extinction is low, but it could very well put pressure on some environments or animals and possibly cause localised extinctions of some species in some areas if it can become well enough established in those areas, it really isn't that hard at all, and seeing as we don't know for sure, it would be silly just to say, 'nah, I doubt that cute little thing could cause harm'.

Allowing exotics will simply benifit those who want more animals, thats it, it won't nessicarily even stop them being kept illegally, those who aren't legible and those who don't care won't even bother applying for licences and will keep them illegally.


----------



## Hickson (May 16, 2006)

I do enjoy a good discussion! Especially when it doesn't degrade into name calling!



boa said:


> But your point of view seems to be that EVERY exotic animal is a potential threat and you also seem to think that if anyone is pro exotic they don't understand the potential risks of some species.



My point of view is that EVERY exotic animal *is* a potential threat until proved otherwise. And by proof I mean after rigorous scientific study.

AS far as the second part of that statement, I know that you understand the risks, but as I've said - a lot of other people could be reading this, and I like to spell it out for anyone that doesn't understand. The statement that Galapagos Totoises wouldn't be a threat sounds to be a reasonable assumption to the average person, and if left unanswered a lot of people reading this might assume that a nil response means a correct assumption. 



> I fully understand the possible risks and have always said I am in favour of limited species being allowed to be kept under strict conditions.



I know this, and understand your point of view. Although i choose to disagree, which you also know. But as I said, the people that post are not the only people reading these threads - if you post your view with supporting statements, I'll post my view with either supporting statements, or alternatives to yours. Just so theirs a balance of views.

One last thing, I've never, ever kept a cat or a dog.

     

Hix


----------



## AGAMIDAE (May 16, 2006)

unless you have a zoo licence...it would be illegal..sorry...


----------



## mciver (May 18, 2006)

Hix said:


> Granted, it would take a while for feral populations to build up, but you can't say categorically that they _wouldn't_ be a threat.
> 
> Hix



It would take quite a while for them to get to the front gate if one escaped even. Couldn't help but put that in.

P


----------



## krusty (May 19, 2006)

last time i checked ....ILLEGAL....


----------

