# Elseya - Wollumbinia ??



## Andiroo (Jan 10, 2008)

OK, let's get to the bottom of this...does the Elseya genus still exist? Has it simply been replaced or renamed as Wollumbinia? 
A few months ago I read a paper by Richard Wells which described what he calls the "Latisternum Complex" and then sets about renaming what seems like most (or all?) of the species under the Elseya banner as Wollumbinia Xxxxxx.
I found it hard to understand the exact reason for the need to reconsider the Genus and got quite lost when Wells started to talk about a "wide mandibular symphysis" and the old "median alveolar ridge on the upper jaw" chestnut!!
Would anyone who has read the paper be able to perhaps put it into simpler terms for the layman and this dummy! 
Andrew


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## expansa1 (Jan 11, 2008)

Andrew,
The Elseya complex has now been split up by Richard Wells and has been officially accepted. I agree that there are differences within this species that warranted a name change but 'Wollumbinia'???
Elseya still exist, Elseya dentata, Elseya albagula, Elseya lavarackorum, Elseya sterlingi and Elseya irwini etc.
Wollumbinia latisternum, Wollumbinia belli, Wollumbinia georgesi, Wollumbinia purvisi etc are also much smaller than Elseya's.


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## Andiroo (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks Mate,
I agree, Wollumbinia takes a bit of getting used to, I always prefer words with 3 or 4 letters anyway! He said it is the aboriginal name for Mt Warning which is the approximate geographical centre for this genus.
I had a quick search on the Elseya's that you mentioned...almost like the genus got split along the NSW - QLD border!!
What criteria needs to be considered when classifying turtles into a new genus, surely not just their size, the shape of the jaw and the width of the mandibular? 
I remember the day I payed attention in high school Biology and can vaguely recall that only animals within the same species can breed, therefore non of the new Wollumbinia species can interbreed? and all the more a Bell's or a Saw-Shell cannot interbreed with say a Laverack's or a Northern Snapper?

This leads me onto another question...why are Chelodina Longicollis so different within the one species? I have seen so many variations in colour, markings and carapace shape. We live near Manly Dam in Sydney and have spotted many long necks, some with an elongated shell, some with a very wide shell, some very dark, some with a lightish brown carapace. My son has even noticed the beautiful patterns on their plastrons to be very different, some have very thin markings at the joining of the plates while others have a very wide distinct pattern. I told him (in all my wisdom) that these markings appear to norrow and define with age...is that right?

Andrew


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## draved (Jan 20, 2008)

why dont you talk to the man that knows more about aussie turtles than most people, john cann. He can and will tell you his opinion on this class of elseya?


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## Andiroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Class - Reptilia, Genus - Elseya!!
Draved, next time you're having a chat to John could you please ask if he doesn't mind you giving me his number and then I can give him a call.
Thanks
Andrew


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