# Indian Palm Squirrels for sale



## bump73 (Apr 28, 2008)

Okay this isn't a dodgy petlink add:lol:

I had a friend email me to say she was at a nursery/pet shop which sold rabbits etc, out at windsor and they had a aviary with palm squirrels which they are breeding and selling:shock:

$1000 for hand raised or $500 for non hand reared.... Are these legal???

The place isn't hiding the fact they are selling them as they are on display for all to see apparently very cute...

Ben


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## bump73 (Apr 28, 2008)

Picure of one


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## redbellybite (Apr 28, 2008)

how cute are they?? but the sad thing is will they be our next over run ferrrrrral species to invade our country because people buy them think they are great at the time ,lose a few offspring and we all know the rest....


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## hornet (Apr 28, 2008)

i'm not 100% sure on the legalities of exotic mammals but i would think they are illegal but since they have them on display mayb not?


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## bump73 (Apr 28, 2008)

Thats what i'm not sure on, you can keep rabbits ferretts etc so maybe they fall in that category:?


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## GAJBlake (Apr 28, 2008)

Not in Queensland, but I know chap in NSW how had them OK,


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## Australis (Apr 28, 2008)

> They may only be kept under the authority of a licence issued by the NSW DPI or if the animals are numerically identified by ear tattoo or microchip and the owner holds a certificate from a registered veterinary surgeon that certifies the animals have been sterilised.



*Full article:*
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/archive/news-releases/agriculture/2007/illegal-squirrels


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## hornet (Apr 28, 2008)

so are these being bred illegally or are there people licenced to breed them?


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## bump73 (Apr 28, 2008)

Well that's good cause she said they were sold being desexed and microchipped

Which i guess means they are probably legally bred...

Got no problem with them if thats the case, actually wouldn't mind getting them but at $1000 i'd buy another snake or 2:lol:

Ben


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## Gregory (Apr 28, 2008)

My cousin keeps them and has done so for many years. Obviously he has all the correct licensing. The squirrels hide a lot and you rarely see them except for feeding times.
He also has primates as well. 







Greg.


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> how cute are they?? but the sad thing is will they be our next over run ferrrrrral species to invade our country



There's already a feral population of them running around the grounds of the Perth Zoo. At least they're being sold desexed. And I guess for $1000 you're unlikely to get sick of it and turf it out.


Stewart


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## Miss_Croft (Apr 28, 2008)

I cannot believe you guys – squares will not become feral due to their feed requirements. In the 1950’s, Australia use to have squirrel populations in the capital cities (Melbourne had them on Spring Street). After removal of their food source (habitat) – in this case oak trees - they died out. 

I just love how any animal that is not indigenous to the area will become “feral”. 

I repeat – DPI (or even federal government) should do a risk assessment to the bio diversity risk posed by many common global pets. This would stop people making the uneducated blanket claims that an animal species will become feral or other wise.


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## Australis (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> I cannot believe you guys – squares will not become feral due to their feed requirements.




Im sure there are worse species, but squirrels are not as fussy as you make out...
Kinda like pigeons they could form dense populations around cities but few and far
between when in regional areas, as far as feral potential goes i would think..

I mean, if you were actually in *New York* or even North America as you like to make 
out you would actually have some idea! :|


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> I cannot believe you guys – squares will not become feral due to their feed requirements.
> 
> I repeat – DPI (or even federal government) should do a risk assessment to the bio diversity risk posed by many common global pets. This would stop people making the uneducated blanket claims that an animal species will become feral or other wise.



I don't really understand what you're saying. The squirrel species mentioned in this thread already has an established, feral population in Perth. See the post directly above yours.

Stewart


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## Dragontamer (Apr 28, 2008)

> [He also has primates as well.]
> 
> 
> > sorry to go off topic but what lisence is required to keep primates? i really want some but was told by the zoo is was imppossible in Aus.


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## hornet (Apr 28, 2008)

Australis said:


> Im sure there are worse species, but squirrels are not as fussy as you make out.



i doubt the natural diet is even acorns, how many Quercus species are native to india? Not that many i'd imagine. I would think they would eat most seeds so wouldnt suprise me if they could establish here.


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## herptrader (Apr 28, 2008)

An extract from:

http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/content/pw/vp/f11300.pdf



> Palm squirrels live in and close to houses and gardens. They often damage introduced gardens plants
> and trees by eating the fruits and buds. They also scavenge for waste food and have been seen to
> steal school children's sandwiches. They may damage electrical wiring in houses creating a fire risk.
> In India their diet includes seeds, fruit, nuts, insects and birds' eggs. Palm squirrels could threaten
> ...



I think my favorite squirrels are the chipmunks I used to encounter when camping in central Canada. We used to camp beside lakes and relax on the granite rock shoreline. The chipmunks would come and purloin peanuts we would leave for them.

That said I don't think they have any place in Australia. Many in their native North America consider squirrels a pest. Why would we import them here?


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## amazonian (Apr 28, 2008)

bump73 said:


> Okay this isn't a dodgy petlink add:lol:
> 
> I had a friend email me to say she was at a nursery/pet shop which sold rabbits etc, out at windsor and they had a aviary with palm squirrels which they are breeding and selling:shock:
> 
> ...


 
That would be Kellyville pets.
I have seen the aviary with these in them there.
And you are correct, they are right infront of the service counter for all to see & buy.
I was very interested in them but wasn't sure if they were legal or not.

I have also seen them at Berkshire park Bird farm but can't remember if they were just on display or if they were for sale there.


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## Hickson (Apr 28, 2008)

Interestingly, the feral population in Perth Zoo only survives in the zoo grounds. Once they stray out of the grounds they usually fall prey to cats. But I have no doubt they would do very well in an environment free of cats.



Hix


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Hix said:


> Interestingly, the feral population in Perth Zoo only survives in the zoo grounds. Once they stray out of the grounds they usually fall prey to cats. But I have no doubt they would do very well in an environment free of cats.



I believe that numbats also prey heavily on squirrels. This is evidenced by the lack of numbats in countries where squirrels are abundant.

On a more serious note... A friend of mine visited Perth Zoo years ago, and returned home with stories of the numbats that roam free in the grounds. When I went to the zoo a few years later I figured out that he had actually been seeing the squirrels.

Stewart


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## grimbeny (Apr 28, 2008)

kellyville pets used to have reptiles on display. They really like to push the boundaries dont they.


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## Magpie (Apr 28, 2008)

There was a report a few years back suggesting the squirrels in south perth are actually spreading their range, albeit slowly.
http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/content/pw/vp/f11300.pdf


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## Tatelina (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> I cannot believe you guys – squares will not become feral due to their feed requirements. In the 1950’s, Australia use to have squirrel populations in the capital cities (Melbourne had them on Spring Street). After removal of their food source (habitat) – in this case oak trees - they died out.
> 
> I just love how any animal that is not indigenous to the area will become “feral”.
> 
> I repeat – DPI (or even federal government) should do a risk assessment to the bio diversity risk posed by many common global pets. This would stop people making the uneducated blanket claims that an animal species will become feral or other wise.



You're hurting me. Please stop talking.


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Magpie said:


> There was a report a few years back suggesting the squirrels in south perth are actually spreading their range, albeit slowly.



I wonder how they're surviving? I have it on good authority that squirrels "will not become feral due to their feed requirements".

The wonders of biology...


Stewart


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 28, 2008)

At 1 of the soccer pitches I play at localy I think there are some aok trees not sure though


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## Miss_Croft (Apr 28, 2008)

Here is a better description of Squirrels (Their history and current impact in Australia). One thing that stands out – The Palm squirrels have been in Australia for more than 80 years and have ONLY formed a small wild population based around the Perth Zoo. The Gray Squirrel has since died out. I have also heard reports of Red squirrel in Melbourne – but they were not mentioned in this report. 

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/abrs/publications/fauna-of-australia/pubs/volume1b/46-ind.pdf

I think the risk was over stated in the WA DPI report – and back to my original statement – there have been no studies on these animals and potential impact to Australia.


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> squares will not become feral





Miss_Croft said:


> Palm squirrels have been in Australia for more than 80 years and have ONLY formed a small wild population based around the Perth Zoo



Hi Miss_Croft,

Thank you for admitting that your original statement was incorrect. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. I'm sure you'll agree that we don't want uneducated claims made on this site going uncorrected.


Stewart


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## DazHerps (Apr 28, 2008)

I used to keep these little guys and whilst they were not the best animal to view (rarely coming out of their hide boxes when anyone was around), they were one of the cutest animals I have kept. 
It is now illegal to keep them as stated by a few already unless they are sterile, and has been for a few years now. This would mean that any hand raised ones being offered for sale are in fact several years old or someone is breeding them illegally. They don't have the longest of life spans so if you are interested in getting one, I'd suggest not spending too much on them because of the fact that they could well be old aged pensioners and not young one's as may be claimed. 
And as for the pest potential, I'm no expert on them but they will eat just about anything. I fed mine on various animal pellets (they particularly liked rat cubes) as well as grains, some veg and even the odd piece of toast.

</IMG>


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## Erin_Jane (Apr 28, 2008)

bump73 said:


> Well that's good cause she said they were sold being desexed and microchipped
> 
> Which i guess means they are probably legally bred...
> 
> ...


 
I'd rather you bought the squirrels personally!! So would the rest of your housemates I'm sure


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## redbellybite (Apr 28, 2008)

there is still a breeding programme set up obviously if they tend to set a market up for them and as usual things can and do happen the general public might be getting the desexed ones but s.##.t happens who will be responsible if and when it does happen ...the cane toads were thought to be in control too at one stage but we all know that is not the case now .......and croft they are feral to this country look at our problems with the last lot of ferals .rabbits, donkeys,camels,canetoads and foxes just to name a few all came to this country cause someone thought it would be a good idea and alas has turned out to be detrimental to our native wildlife so my point was justified in saying how would we go with another one didnt say it was happening now but no doubt human error will happen ...


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## Miss_Croft (Apr 28, 2008)

RRB – I was down playing the potential of Palm squirrels becoming a pest. All the animals you have mentioned were deliberately released and many of them were released multiple times due to failure of the first release (there was a rabbit master paid to watch over the released rabbits). 

Did anyone read the link I posted on Squirrels in Australia – it stated there were small populations around Australia (Sydney, Adelaide) – only one surviving based around the Perth Zoo – suggesting it is not a self sustaining population – but more radiating from the protection of the Perth Zoo grounds. Specimens have been found (Caught) up to 140km from the Perth Zoo – but no population started again suggesting there are predators in Australia stopping their spread. 

There are many other animals that have been brought to Australia and are kept as pets for example ferrets and guinea pigs – these two have not taken off as feral animals. 

As mentioned before to date there has not been a proper bio diversity risk assessment on the palm squirrel and potential impact to the Australian environment.


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## Jozz (Apr 28, 2008)

Australis said:


> I mean, if you were actually in *New York* or even North America as you like to make
> out you would actually have some idea! :|


 
New York, New York


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> only one surviving based around the Perth Zoo – suggesting it is not a self sustaining population – but more radiating from the protection of the Perth Zoo grounds.



Hi Miss_Croft,

You're becoming less coherent as this thread wears on. I think you have a different definition of the terms 'feral' and 'self-sustaining' than most people. Maybe those terms mean something different in New York?

Are you (or the Squirrels in Australia page you mentioned) suggesting that Perth Zoo (or someone else) is breeding and deliberately releasing squirrels into their grounds? That's the only way I can think of by which a non self-sustaining population could persist there for as long as it has.

Edit: I'm not trying to have a go at you (that's an Australian saying meaning insulting, undermining or being argumentative towards), but the stuff you're saying doesn't make sense to me, so I'm trying to get clarification on some of your points.

Stewart


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## Hickson (Apr 28, 2008)

I'd also like to point out that the article in question was written 20 years ago.



Hix


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## -Peter (Apr 28, 2008)

I saw a red panda in the wild at Mosman once. Talk about feral manace.


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## Splitmore (Apr 28, 2008)

About 15 years or so ago you used to be able to buy these squirrels in most pet shops. Pets World at Grace Bros used to sell them.


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## JasonL (Apr 28, 2008)

Squirrels may not do too well around southern states, but what about the tropical north? Various species of squirrels abound in SE asia, and some species will even eat insects. They were introduced into Bali, where they are now a pest. I'm sure fruit and nut farmers would love to see them roaming around their farms. I saw at least two species of squirrel on my recent trip to Thailand, where they turned up everyday from trees around shopping centers, hotels, and in the middle of the wilderness. They are native to Thailand though.


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## expansa1 (Apr 28, 2008)

Splitmore said:


> About 15 years or so ago you used to be able to buy these squirrels in most pet shops. Pets World at Grace Bros used to sell them.




15. You mean more like 20 -30
You're really showing your age now Chris!


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## amazonian (Apr 28, 2008)

Splitmore said:


> About 15 years or so ago you used to be able to buy these squirrels in most pet shops. Pets World at Grace Bros used to sell them.


 
You could also buy crocs at a shop I think called "wet & wonderful pets?" untill they were released into Manly dam.


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## shlanger (Apr 28, 2008)

I saw 'free roaming' palm squirrels in Taronga Zoo in 1970. Thought they were cute and tried hard to catch one, to no avail!
The last Victorian known population of Grey Squirrels died out in 1973. They were in the Ballarat gardens


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## Miss_Croft (Apr 28, 2008)

Stewart – I was saying the current population of Palm squirrels appear to be radiating out of Perth Zoo – that is have found a safety in the zoo grounds from predators (Cats, foxes or dogs most probably). But back to my last statement to my knowledge there has never been a bio diversity risk assessment done on these little guys or many other animals in Australia. 

By what you are saying – a flock of sheep is a pest species because it breeds in the farmers paddocks. (You have not taken in account the farmer keeps the sheep safe from predators much the same as the Perth Zoo fences protect the palm squirrel’s from predators) 

You can release guinea pigs in your back yard – they might bread for a while – but before long they will probably die out due to hawks and other land predators (Cats, foxes and dogs). 

JasonL – I also saw many species squirrels in both Thailand and Bali – you can often see them bouncing along the tops of buildings in Thailand. But without the assessment there is no way of determining if they will become a pest in Australia.

As pointed out before a population of Indian palm squirrels was established in Sydney and Adelaide – but since died out. Gray and Red Squirrels in both Melbourne and Ballarat – since died out. 

Back to what I was saying – there has never been any bio diversity risk assessment done on Indian Palm Squirrel – and as a result we do not know the potential risk they pose to the Australian environment. What we can say is to date they have not been very successful at colonizing Australia (Two out of three isolated population since vanished)


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## junglepython2 (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> All the animals you have mentioned were deliberately released and many of them were released multiple times *due to failure of the first release* (there was a rabbit master paid to watch over the released rabbits).


 
So the other feral species didn't take off straight away, what makes you think the squirrels are any different?


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## smacdonald (Apr 28, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> Stewart – I was saying the current population of Palm squirrels appear to be radiating out of Perth Zoo – that is have found a safety in the zoo grounds from predators (Cats, foxes or dogs most probably). But back to my last statement to my knowledge there has never been a bio diversity risk assessment done on these little guys or many other animals in Australia
> By what you are saying – a flock of sheep is a pest species because it breeds in the farmers paddocks. (You have not taken in account the farmer keeps the sheep safe from predators much the same as the Perth Zoo fences protect the palm squirrel’s from predators)



_ I was saying the current population of Palm squirrels appear to be radiating out of Perth Zoo_

There's no doubt about that. In fact, I mentioned the feral population at Perth Zoo just before you denied its existence.

I don't think that anyone from Australia would disagree with you - sheep are definitely a pest species (albeit a tasty one) over here! But a flock of sheep in a paddock being cared for by a farmer isn't a self-sustaining population - the farmer is an outside entity that is sustaining the population. Again, maybe something is being lost in translation here. You sophisticated New Yorkers might have different definitions for these terms compared to our simple Australian ones.

Speaking of New Yorkers, it must really be the town that never sleeps! Why are you up so early in the morning?!? You must be very enthralled in this discussion!

_But back to my last statement to my knowledge there has never been a bio diversity risk assessment done on these little guys or many other animals in Australia_

You keep going back to that statement. No one's disagreeing with you here. But the fact that a biodiversity risk assessment has never been done doesn't negate the fact that there is a wild, feral, self-sustaining population of these cute little squirrels in Australia. And according to the source you found while Googling, they're been here since 1898. That's a fairly long track record of existence. And I'm sure that your denial of their 110 year existence would be very offensive to them. Or perhaps the population is *not* self-sustaining, but is instead comprised of 110-year-old squirrels?

_there has never been any bio diversity risk assessment done on Indian Palm Squirrel – and as a result we do not know the potential risk they pose to the Australian environment_

But we do know that they have the potential to produce a wild, feral, self-sustaining population in Australia. And this, despite no one having done a biodiversity risk assessment.

This thread has gone on so long I've forgotten what we were even talking about. I'm not sure that you even knew what we were talking about in the first place.

Vegetarian cats, carnivorous dugongs, extinct squares... What's the world coming to?!?!


Stewart


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## shlanger (Apr 28, 2008)

OK gentle people, all those who want to learn about the introduction of feral animals and plants in this country, may I suggest you get and read a copy of "They All Ran Wild" by Eric Rolls. 1969,
This is about the introduction of feral animals, birds and plants. You will be staggered, amazed and relieved, to learn about the amount of ferals that were introduced, but were not successful at adapting to Aus. conditions. Good read, promise!


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## Geronimo (May 4, 2008)

*Resourceful critters...*

I don't think we should allow squirrels into Australia. Maybe it's not a totally relevant point but look at what happened in the UK where introduced grey squirrels adapted so well that the native reds are now endangered... I lived in London for ten years and I can assure you that they don't need oak trees to thrive!!! I had one grey squirrel who lived in my backyard and earned the nickname "Fat Bastard" after ripping open the bags and gorging on rubbish every Monday before the dustman came around. Got so fat that he couldn't climb vertical surfaces (i.e. the wall of my house) like "normal" squirrels can. Squirrels are highly intelligent, persistant and always hungry. Anyone remember the David Attenborough doc where they set up a series of obstacles and mazes for the wild squirrels to negotiate in order to get to a stash of nuts? There you go. I'm sure that if enough of them got out we'd be in trouble... Also I was shocked to see them climbing coconut palm trees in Bali!!! Coming from an English winter it didn't compute, I couldn't believe what I had seen! I can tell you there aren't many oak trees there, and more than a few starving, stray cats and dogs who should be able to keep them in check... All that said I saw one the other day out at the Frog and Reptile show in Sydney and there's no denying that they are almost unbearably cute small fuzzies...


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## $NaKe PiMp (May 4, 2008)

swift death to all fertile unattended squirrels!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Aslan (May 4, 2008)

Geronimo said:


> I don't think we should allow squirrels into Australia.


 
...seems a moot point since they have been here for the best part of 100 years...

...as has been said, the populations in the Southern States have died out - so we seem pretty safe in that regard - and the Perth Zoo population seem to be controlled from any major spread due to predation or similar...

...however, JasonL makes a great point in that these cities don't fulfil the requirements for the Squirrels to thrive - and if an environmental impact study is yet to be completed then a lot of caution needs to be taken to control their spread as 'pets' as noone seems to know for sure IF they will have an effect on the more Northern regions where the climate, in theory, would be more suited...


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## peterjohnson64 (May 4, 2008)

For those that are interested - get out to the Frog & Reptile Expo today and have a look at one of these squirrels. Yes, they are very cute. But seriously, the only reason any of us would want to buy one is because in NSW we can buy a squirrel off a breeder but not a sugar glider. Go Figure!!! Surely there would be much less envirnmental risk if they just allowed us to buy sugar gliders off breeders in Victoria or South Australia. Oh, and I dont think they would cost us $1,000 each either.


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## mblissett (May 4, 2008)

these were at Berkshire Park Bird Farm when I went there yesterday


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## grimbeny (May 4, 2008)

They were so tiny, im not a fan. For 1k i dont see the appeal.


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## Aslan (May 4, 2008)

*Grim* - Agreed, interesting due to the novelty factor, limited appeal at a reasonable price - no appeal at $1k


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## dude_joel (May 4, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> You can release guinea pigs in your back yard – they might bread for a while – but before long they will probably die out due to hawks and other land predators (Cats, foxes and dogs).



i have had guinea pigs running around my back yard, and breding quite profusly for years without any substantial predation.


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## Boney (May 4, 2008)

$1000 for squirrel what a joke they where selling them up my way for $175 each . i was also told they werent the best pets as they like to hide most of the day.


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## junglepython2 (May 4, 2008)

peterjohnson64 said:


> For those that are interested - get out to the Frog & Reptile Expo today and have a look at one of these squirrels. Yes, they are very cute. But seriously, the only reason any of us would want to buy one is because in NSW we can buy a squirrel off a breeder but not a sugar glider. Go Figure!!! Surely there would be much less envirnmental risk if they just allowed us to buy sugar gliders off breeders in Victoria or South Australia. Oh, and I dont think they would cost us $1,000 each either.


 

That's a good point you raised PJ.


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## Miss B (May 4, 2008)

reptilesDownUnder said:


> Speaking of New Yorkers, it must really be the town that never sleeps! Why are you up so early in the morning?!? You must be very enthralled in this discussion!



I think we all know Miss Croft isn't really in New York


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## pythonmum (May 4, 2008)

I had a pet grey squirrel in the states for a while. It was free - just picked it up off the road where the rest of its family had been wiped out by cars. Nice little animal, but not worth $1000!


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## morgasm (May 7, 2008)

hahaha ..... even if they went feral...they look good ...better then freakin toads.


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## stace82 (Jun 8, 2008)

I was actually at the Zoo yesterday and just found this thread while trying to find more info on these squirrels. I had to ask one of the Zoo guides if they were chipmunks or squirrels!

What he told me was that they basically jumped ship while the animals get transfered and roam free around the Zoo and other areas. I asked him if they were pests, but he said they didnt pose any threat to Australian wildlife so werent actually pestsof any sort.

He said that they are also found in other surrounding areas of Perth Zoo, and if you catch them you can keep them!!!

Thanks for the interesting conversations about the Indian Squirrels, I thought that if they would make a sweet pet for my daughter, but if they were being sold for $1000, that seems a bit steep for something you could catch for nothing, maybe next time we go to the Zoo we will come armed with nets...:lol:

Does anyone know if you can buy them elsewhere?


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