# Stimson feeding. Out of ideas



## Camm8 (Oct 21, 2013)

Ok so my yearling stimmy has gone 3 weeks without a feed. He's gone 121 days without a shed. He's always fed perfectly for me every week. None of his conditions have changed. Food size hasn't changed. Tonight I've tried braining his fuzzy rat, tried all his usual techniques of touching his nose. Touching his tail. Leaving it outside his hide for an hr. Even tried something I read about putting it in egg yoke. He's been fed rats for as long as his feeding records date back. Starting to get to the point of wondering how long is safe for a yearling to go without a feed.... Only other idea I have is try mice.... I've read about mice drops or something that can be used to help get hatchlings feeding. But can't find anything on the net about buying it. 
Any further ideas or a link to buy the mice drops would be appreciated....


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## andynic07 (Oct 21, 2013)

Do you mean he has not eaten the last three weeks but he was in brumation for the rest? The most important factor that you need to look at is your snake dropping weight? If it is not dropping weight then don't worry. Was the fuzzy rat that you posted for this snake or another? How big is your snake weight wise and thickness wise because I would think that a fuzzy rat may be a little on the small size for a yearling unless it is small for its age.


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## Renenet (Oct 21, 2013)

Hi Camm. 

3 weeks without a feed is nothing for a snake, even a yearling. I didn't fee my adult stimmie for four months over winter. She barely lost a gram. I wouldn't worry about it just yet. Sometimes they don't want to eat. Leave him alone for a week or two and try again. In the meantime, check to make sure the temperature in the hot end of the enclosure is about 32 to 33 degrees. Another thing: has anything changed in the enclosure or in the environment nearby? That can sometimes do it.


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## gozz (Oct 21, 2013)

Just leave it for a few weeks


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## Camm8 (Oct 21, 2013)

I usually feed him fuzzy rats. I questioned whether they were to big for him even tho he has taken them in the past. So I tried a pinky I had and figured if he took to it id just feed him a second. Tried all the methods I mentioned and nothing. Then got a fuzzy out and tried that aswell with the same result. I wouldn't say he really lost any weight looking at him. One thing I noticed the other day was a dry patch of skin on his head behind the large middle scale between the eyes. But he's showing no other signs of shed other then not feeding. I'm thinking of getting some hopper mice tomorrow so they are on the smaller size of fuzzy rats and try again in a few days. At least over the few days I may see some more signs of shed. If shed doesnt progress more and he doesn't take the mice in a few days ill be getting really concerned. He only ever refuses food at shed and normally he would refuse and then 2-3 days later shed. But this is my 3rd attempt in 3 weeks. His temps set between 34-36 at the hot end and 27 at the cool end.

- - - Updated - - -

How long is to long for a yearling stimmy?


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## bigjoediver (Oct 22, 2013)

Welcome to the joys of Stimson ownership! Mine hasn't fed in months, nothing to worry about they are notorious for it. As the weather gets warmer and more stable things will get back to normal. There are plenty of threads on here that start with " help my stimmie won't eat" and they all end well. Even in indoor enclosures when you don't cool them over winter they somehow sense the seasonal change and just go off their food. Just offer your normal sized food item every two weeks until it takes and then go back to your normal frequency. If you worry about the waste buy a carpet python to eat the refused items, they are pigs!


Joe.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 22, 2013)

They're not cats or dogs, or mammals or birds. They don't need feeding on a "regular as clockwork" schedule - this may suit you, but it may not suit the snake. Seasonally they can go off food for months at a time (they have to - many of them only eat a meal 2 or 3 times a year in the wild) without harm.

I ask the question though - why rats? A Stimson's python will live it's entire life in perfect health eating only mice, and adult mice are probably more nutritious than undeveloped rats.

Like all Stimson's, it will eat when it's ready, not when you're ready for it to eat. May not even be till Xmas, but it will do no harm.

Jamie


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## kitten_pheonix (Oct 22, 2013)

I wouldnt worry too much, my female stimmi went her yearling winter without eating because she didnt want too, have you changed where you buy your food from? Some snakes are fussy ie one of my stimmies will only take her mice wet and it cannot have colour otherwise its a hassle to get her to eat it, another requires his food laid out for him he refuses to strike and another couldnt give a rats


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 22, 2013)

kitten_pheonix said:


> I wouldnt worry too much, my female stimmi went her yearling winter without eating because she didnt want too, have you changed where you buy your food from? Some snakes are fussy ie one of my stimmies will only take her mice wet and it cannot have colour otherwise its a hassle to get her to eat it, another requires his food laid out for him he refuses to strike and another couldnt give a rats



How do you think snakes get on in the wild? 

Jamie


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## Junglejags (Oct 22, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> How do you think snakes get on in the wild?
> 
> Jamie



I wonder sometimes if a fussy eater and slow starters are genetic.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 22, 2013)

Most so-called fussy eaters are a product of the keeper's belief that they need to be goaded into eating far more often than they need to. The two significant factors with regard to python feeding are smell and temperature (for those larger ones which eat warm-blooded prey). Pythons are largely active at night, and some live deep in caves throughout their lives. They find food by smelling it with their tongues, or by detecting the heat from a mammal or bird with their heat pits. To pander to a snake and allow it to dictate to the keeper to the point where it won't eat coloured rats or mice is ridiculous, and is largely an artefact of bad management in the beginning. This in turn is a result of the (usually new) keeper not being prepared or experienced enough to wait them out. There are a few individuals which have a preference for quail or mice or rats, but they are not nearly as common as some threads on APS would indicate.

Jamie


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## Camm8 (Oct 22, 2013)

bigjoediver said:


> Welcome to the joys of Stimson ownership! Mine hasn't fed in months, nothing to worry about they are notorious for it. As the weather gets warmer and more stable things will get back to normal. There are plenty of threads on here that start with " help my stimmie won't eat" and they all end well. Even in indoor enclosures when you don't cool them over winter they somehow sense the seasonal change and just go off their food. Just offer your normal sized food item every two weeks until it takes and then go back to your normal frequency. If you worry about the waste buy a carpet python to eat the refused items, they are pigs!
> 
> 
> Joe.



I've got a 3 year old wheatbelt who takes all the refused along with her own meal. She's awesome. Put a rodent on the bench and bam she's at the enclosure door waiting lol. 

I went rats only because that's what his feeding records were for as long as they go back. (before I got him) but I did want to switch to mice because I from what I read there is more nutrition in mice. Going to leave him alone and covered up for 2 weeks and try again. I just need to not stress and let nature take it course.


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## andynic07 (Oct 22, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> They're not cats or dogs, or mammals or birds. They don't need feeding on a "regular as clockwork" schedule - this may suit you, but it may not suit the snake. Seasonally they can go off food for months at a time (they have to - many of them only eat a meal 2 or 3 times a year in the wild) without harm.
> 
> I ask the question though - why rats? A Stimson's python will live it's entire life in perfect health eating only mice, and adult mice are probably more nutritious than undeveloped rats.
> 
> ...



Funny that you mention that mice are better than a young rat. I recently read an article written by a vet suggesting that mice are better for reptiles than rats and he states that he has seen problems with constipation caused by the coarse rat fur.


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## Snowman (Oct 22, 2013)

kitten_pheonix said:


> I wouldnt worry too much, my female stimmi went her yearling winter without eating because she didnt want too, have you changed where you buy your food from? Some snakes are fussy ie one of my stimmies will only take her mice wet and it cannot have colour otherwise its a hassle to get her to eat it, another requires his food laid out for him he refuses to strike and another couldnt give a rats



I think Jamie answered this adequately in post #11.


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## kitten_pheonix (Oct 22, 2013)

Or maybe I found what worked for my snake? If there is no hassles feeding her this way why change and waste food items if I dont have to? I dont doubt if I left her without food long enough she would eat what she is given. But I dont wish to do that. There is nothing wrong with my husbandry, all animals are individuals and have preferences. The coloured mice was only discovered when I started breeding my own and found she wouldnt take them after being fed store bought white mice most of her life, that was not bad management. She will take them if I brain them and continuously offer them, but I preffer the ease of picking out the white ones for her. I am not a breeder, she is a pet and family to me and due to my emotional attachment do not mind giving what she preffers. 

And in saying that how many breeders force feed hatchies? Are you saying they have bad husbandry? To quote you, how would they get on in the wild?..


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## Camm8 (Oct 22, 2013)

Do you think it would be wise for me to swap him to mice? More nutrition and possibly if I brain the mice it may entice him to eat?


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## kitten_pheonix (Oct 22, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> Do you think it would be wise for me to swap him to mice? More nutrition and possibly if I brain the mice it may entice him to eat?



Imo, it cant hurt to try, braining on devoloped mice is eaiser if you go through the lower jaw rather then the skull I have found.


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## Camm8 (Oct 22, 2013)

Ok cool thanks for that. I'm going to get some today and I'll try again in a few days.


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## 12-08-67 (Oct 22, 2013)

hi, as with the other stimie owners my girl went off her food for 3-4mths and even now she will only take food if i pinch the nose of it and make it bleed, she is kept with year round heat as i have no intention on breeding but she is only just now taking food every 2weeks again, i worry that one rat isnt enough but i have to trust her instincts and she has only ever lost 20grms - i tried braining and the egg idea and leaving food in over nite but if it doesn't move (with me dangling it near her) she wont even strike or take notice of it. she is 2.5yrs now and 880grms at 1.2mtrs. Its hard not to worry tho but i am sure if left in peace for a few weeks it will come around  good luck


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## Junglejags (Oct 22, 2013)

kitten_pheonix said:


> Or maybe I found what worked for my snake? If there is no hassles feeding her this way why change and waste food items if I dont have to? I dont doubt if I left her without food long enough she would eat what she is given. But I dont wish to do that. There is nothing wrong with my husbandry, all animals are individuals and have preferences. The coloured mice was only discovered when I started breeding my own and found she wouldnt take them after being fed store bought white mice most of her life, that was not bad management. She will take them if I brain them and continuously offer them, but I preffer the ease of picking out the white ones for her. I am not a breeder, she is a pet and family to me and due to my emotional attachment do not mind giving what she preffers.
> 
> And in saying that how many breeders force feed hatchies? Are you saying they have bad husbandry? To quote you, how would they get on in the wild?..



The colour of the mouse will not effect if it eats it or not. Force feeding hatchlings has more to do with the fact they eat small birds, geckos, frogs ect not domesticated rats and mice. 

Also you might want to have a look at what Jamie posts on other threads, clearly he knows what he is talking about.


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## Ramy (Oct 22, 2013)

If a python is being a fussy eater, and nothing has changed that might cause undue stress, _then maybe it's just not hungry?_ My pythons have a more agressive feeding response fresh out of winter, but by mid summer when they have barely skipped a meal in months they can stop striking altogether and just pick up the meal and swallow. If they don't lose weight even though they're skipping meals, then it doesn't matter.

Meanwhile, think about what might be causing a python stress? Has the enclosure moved, is there more foot traffic nearby, have you had a heat-wave or cold spell recently? (contrary to popular belief, hotter is not always better. I try very hard to give a broad temperature gradient. On hot days, I try to make sure the snake can access a cool spot. If your cool end is over 24 degrees, it might be too hot.) Just because it hasn't eaten, doesn't mean you should shove a rat in it's face every 3 days. That might just make things worse. Sometimes they just want to be left alone for a fortnight. Keep an eye out for any signs of ill-health, keep an eye out for weight loss, and don't panic.


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## kitten_pheonix (Oct 22, 2013)

Junglejags said:


> The colour of the mouse will not effect if it eats it or not. Force feeding hatchlings has more to do with the fact they eat small birds, geckos, frogs ect not domesticated rats and mice.
> 
> Also you might want to have a look at what Jamie posts on other threads, clearly he knows what he is talking about.



So you have met every snake out there and know for a fact colour has nothingto do with it? 
I never said jamie didnt know what he is talking about I simply stated my experiance with my animals.


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## gozz (Oct 22, 2013)

Seriously leave it alone for 3weeks then give it a try, that's all you have to do


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## Snowman (Oct 22, 2013)

kitten_pheonix said:


> So you have met every snake out there and know for a fact colour has nothingto do with it?
> I never said jamie didnt know what he is talking about I simply stated my experiance with my animals.



This >>>>



Pythoninfinite said:


> . To pander to a snake and allow it to dictate to the keeper to the point where it won't eat coloured rats or mice is ridiculous, and is largely an artefact of bad management in the beginning. This in turn is a result of the (usually new) keeper not being prepared or experienced enough to wait them out.
> 
> Jamie


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 23, 2013)

kitten_pheonix said:


> Or maybe I found what worked for my snake? If there is no hassles feeding her this way why change and waste food items if I dont have to? I dont doubt if I left her without food long enough she would eat what she is given. But I dont wish to do that. There is nothing wrong with my husbandry, all animals are individuals and have preferences. The coloured mice was only discovered when I started breeding my own and found she wouldnt take them after being fed store bought white mice most of her life, that was not bad management. She will take them if I brain them and continuously offer them, but I preffer the ease of picking out the white ones for her. I am not a breeder, she is a pet and family to me and due to my emotional attachment do not mind giving what she preffers.
> 
> And in saying that how many breeders force feed hatchies? Are you saying they have bad husbandry? To quote you, how would they get on in the wild?..



I would say that force-feeding is not a regular requirement for most breeders, and when it is used it's generally because we almost always offer our commonly kept snakes rodents from the time they start feeding. Pinky rodents are not the natural diet for hatchling pythons - small lizards such as skinks & geckos are. In almost every case, a hatchling which is reluctant to eat small mice or rats will avidly feed on lizards if they are offered. The exceptions are when the snake in question has some sort of physiological compromise - not all animals are born physically perfect, and those animals would probably die anyway.

I don't really see what this has to do with the colour thing though, and I absolutely acknowledge your right to feed your animals whatever you want to feed them, for whatever reasons. I just think that discussions about "fussy" snakes need to be kept in perspective. They are not naughty children refusing to eat their Brussel's sprouts. What a keeper CHOOSES to do and what NEEDS to be done are often two different things.

Jamie


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## The_Geeza (Oct 23, 2013)

12-08-67 said:


> hi, as with the other stimie owners my girl went off her food for 3-4mths and even now she will only take food if i pinch the nose of it and make it bleed, she is kept with year round heat as i have no intention on breeding but she is only just now taking food every 2weeks again, i worry that one rat isnt enough but i have to trust her instincts and she has only ever lost 20grms - i tried braining and the egg idea and leaving food in over nite but if it doesn't move (with me dangling it near her) she wont even strike or take notice of it. she is 2.5yrs now and 880grms at 1.2mtrs. Its hard not to worry tho but i am sure if left in peace for a few weeks it will come around  good luck


Try a day old chick... Fussy stimi's go nuts for them


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

Hi guys just getting back to this thread as my stimmy still hasn't eaten. Offered him a fuzzy mouse yesterday and completely refused. He drank the water off it's fur and left it alone... He has lost abit of weight and has thinned out a little. Realizing now that he stopped eating after I fitted the backing to his enclosure. Any further ideas to possibly help me?


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## The_Geeza (Oct 28, 2013)

My last post


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok thanks mate will most pet shops that sell rodents sell them aswell?


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 28, 2013)

Just stop stressing yourself over it. Leave it for a month or two if necessary. Anyone experienced with Antaresias knows this characteristic very well - they sometimes stop eating for several MONTHS for no apparent reason, and it does them no harm - all it does is stress the inexperienced owner out.

Stop offering food and try again at the end of November.

Jamie


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

Got chicks on hold for tomorrow. Going to try one and if no luck I'll go with what you've said Jaimie. I'm alot less stressed this week then the last. The foods not going to waste my big girls taking the extra.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 28, 2013)

Great if he does eat it, but don't worry if he doesn't !

Jamie


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## The_Geeza (Oct 28, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> Hi guys just getting back to this thread as my stimmy still hasn't eaten. Offered him a fuzzy mouse yesterday and completely refused. He drank the water off it's fur and left it alone... He has lost abit of weight and has thinned out a little. Realizing now that he stopped eating after I fitted the backing to his enclosure. Any further ideas to possibly help me?


Can u confirm for me without going all through the thread to what temps this snake has available in its enclosure?.. Thanks Pete


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

He has 33-32 hot end 25-27 cold(depending if the thermostat is on or off) I've read a few things about yearlings and that they can be more comfortable set a 29 constant all over enclosure. So I'm considering moving him to a click clack and setting the temp to 29 all over.


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## Trimeresurus (Oct 28, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> He has 33-32 hot end 25-27 cold(depending if the thermostat is on or off) I've read a few things about yearlings and that they can be more comfortable set a 29 constant all over enclosure. So I'm considering moving him to a click clack and setting the temp to 29 all over.



Don't do that, a thermal gradient is always the way to go. A clickclack may help though as it's smaller and less open.


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## The_Geeza (Oct 28, 2013)

Heat mat under 1/3 of click clack and keep it simple till starts eating.. What has it eaten before?

- - - Updated - - -

I need to re read this thread

- - - Updated - - -

What state u in?


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

Okay it's so hard as with this hobby there is so many varied opinions. I always try do as much research as possible before I ask a question. If the chick isn't taken tomorrow I'll definitely look at the click clack. I have everything I need but won't do the move until after I try the feed.


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

MidsReps said:


> Heat mat under 1/3 of click clack and keep it simple till starts eating.. What has it eaten before?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Yeah his enclosure has been 1/3 heat chord under tiles under enclosure. Run on a digital thermostat with thermometers on both ends just to be sure. I'm in south east qld. ATM our temperature is all over the place. One day is really hot the next is noticeably cooler. Same with nights. I'm just happy if my temps are staying around 33-34 and 25-28 the temps at the top are always a little lower and he climbs his vine on the odd occasion.


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

My 3yr old female is honestly a perfect snake. She sits in her hot spot for 3-4 days after her feed. Always active at night. Then will defecate and then stays in the cool end until day 7 then will move back to the hot end and I know she's ready for her feed. Open the enclosure door and offer the rat and takes it instantly. Only issue with her is she's cheeky and when I handle her if she finds a finger not next to the rest she decides to open her mouth and slowly try latch on.


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## Camm8 (Oct 28, 2013)

Something playing on my mind. Could any left over fumes from the silicon I used to fit the background into enclosure have caused any issues with feeding? Seems silly to me but thought I would ask...


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 28, 2013)

I don't know how to put this in an understandable fashion - you are dealing with a species that regularly goes off food for no obvious reason, sometimes for 6 months, without any harm whatsoever. It's NORMAL, so you should just leave it alone until it's ready to start feeding again. If you try offering other food types, you run the risk of the snake becoming a pain in the butt and selective about what it eats. They are all individual, so just because you have one which behaves one way, it doesn't automatically follow that the next one will be the same.

Patience is the primary virtue of any reptile keeper.

Jamie


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## Camm8 (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi guys just an update. Refused a baby quail so I've now moved him into a click clack. I mentioned in one of my first post a dry patch on his head between his eyes and I noticed its still there. Bells abit pink and his overall skin colour seems alot darker then normal. So I've tried to get a picture of the dry patch for your opinion. The photo is terrible but the mrs couldn't get him to sit still. Every time the phone went close he wanted to investigate.






Eyes haven't gone cloudy and he's had that patch for 2 weeks now. Gave him a warm bath today and have put some damp papertowel in the click clack to get humidity up to try get the shed(if it is) going.


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## andynic07 (Oct 31, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> Hi guys just an update. Refused a baby quail so I've now moved him into a click clack. I mentioned in one of my first post a dry patch on his head between his eyes and I noticed its still there. Bells abit pink and his overall skin colour seems alot darker then normal. So I've tried to get a picture of the dry patch for your opinion. The photo is terrible but the mrs couldn't get him to sit still. Every time the phone went close he wanted to investigate.
> 
> Eyes haven't gone cloudy and he's had that patch for 2 weeks now. Gave him a warm bath today and have put some damp papertowel in the click clack to get humidity up to try get the shed(if it is) going.


If his belly is a little pink and his skin is dull then I would say it is going to shed and you should stop offering food and handling the poor thing. Also the dry patch on the head probably won't have anything to with coming up to shed especially if it has been there for two weeks. Another thing , anything that you do will not "get the shed going", it will shed in its own time and will just want to be left alone. Was the bath warm to your touch? if so it was probably too warm for your snake.


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## Snowman (Oct 31, 2013)

Why the bath? Just leave the poor thing alone for awhile... They don't need high humidity to shed. The patch is fine and nothing to worry about.

Best thing you can do is read read read... Get Keeping and breeding Australian pythons and The complete Anteresia.


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## Camm8 (Oct 31, 2013)

No i couldn't feel warm or cold. Trust me before I do anything I read what I'm doing before hand. I used a little common sense and thought well my body temp is 36-37c to hot for a snake so the water shouldn't feel warm to me if anything slightly cool. So I researched and read it shouldn't feel cold not warm to my touch as I figured. Already own both them books also. Contacted the breeder about it and they recommended transferring to a click clack and up the temp to 35 as the click clack holds the heat more. Therefore it will help a shed or get a feeding response.


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## Snowman (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm sensing that you are not taking on board the info that Jamie is giving you. I pity that poor little python :-/


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## Snapped (Oct 31, 2013)

I'd just leave the snake be for 2 weeks, keep the temps as they are (or bump up to 33 hot spot), and then offer a feed. Make sure the rodent is warm (after normal defrosting, I dip the head only into boiling water for 5 seconds, then take the temp of the head with a temp gun) and dangle it, or leave it in the enclosure overnight. Don't disturb the snake.


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## andynic07 (Oct 31, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> No i couldn't feel warm or cold. Trust me before I do anything I read what I'm doing before hand. I used a little common sense and thought well my body temp is 36-37c to hot for a snake so the water shouldn't feel warm to me if anything slightly cool. So I researched and read it shouldn't feel cold not warm to my touch as I figured. Already own both them books also. Contacted the breeder about it and they recommended transferring to a click clack and up the temp to 35 as the click clack holds the heat more. Therefore it will help a shed or get a feeding response.


Since you have Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons I will refer you to page 30 where it states "The first indication that a snake is entering a sloughing or "cloudy" period , is when there is an apparent reduction in the activity of the snake coupled with a loss of appetite. Snakes are very vulnerable in this condition and remain undercover and inactive , until the process is completed. Not eating at this time is important, as a large meal could seriously hinder the skin being sloughed. Snakes should not be handled during this period." It does not say give them a warm bath or handle them. Whilst I do support the idea of a click clack for many varying reasons I do not see the point in a lot of the other stuff that you are trying. I offered what I thought was pretty sound advice and so has other members of this site and you seem to have a little attitude about what we are saying. If you have all of the answers then there would be no need to come on here and make a thread saying your snake will not feed.


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## Camm8 (Oct 31, 2013)

From his previous history he would go off food for a week before the shed. He had the dry patch the other week but no other signs of shed therefore I continued to try feed weekly. Today when I moved him into the click clack I noticed the belly and thought to myself he does seem a little darker then usual. Therefore I thought if he's been coming into shed for 4 weeks now which is longer then usual for him. I'll give him a bath and put him into the click clack. He was handled today for the first time in 3 weeks due to my concern about this strange behavior (for him). I don't know all the answers. I'm only a beginner, and I do appreciate every bit of advice I can be given. But I do make sure I research before posting. Because most of the time the answers can be found. But with research there are lots of contradicting answers. Jaimie states one thing and alot of other people state different. I'm aware you seem to rather experienced as almost every thread I read I see your name amongst it. Therefore I will be removing the damp towel. And hope that the shed progresses over the next week. But if it doesn't I'll be going with the damp towel method I've read about to increase humidity to help loosen the skin.


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## andynic07 (Oct 31, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> From his previous history he would go off food for a week before the shed. He had the dry patch the other week but no other signs of shed therefore I continued to try feed weekly. Today when I moved him into the click clack I noticed the belly and thought to myself he does seem a little darker then usual. Therefore I thought if he's been coming into shed for 4 weeks now which is longer then usual for him. I'll give him a bath and put him into the click clack. He was handled today for the first time in 3 weeks due to my concern about this strange behavior (for him). I don't know all the answers. I'm only a beginner, and I do appreciate every bit of advice I can be given. But I do make sure I research before posting. Because most of the time the answers can be found. But with research there are lots of contradicting answers. Jaimie states one thing and alot of other people state different. I'm aware you seem to rather experienced as almost every thread I read I see your name amongst it. Therefore I will be removing the damp towel. And hope that the shed progresses over the next week. But if it doesn't I'll be going with the damp towel method I've read about to increase humidity to help loosen the skin.


Sorry if I came across as harsh , not the best week which is not your fault. I by no means am an expert but Jamie on the other hand has had more experience than I have had years alive. I usually find with my snakes that if they are stress free and well hydrated they will shed fine with the humidity of the surrounding area. As for the not eating stuff, as long as your snake is not losing weight there is nothing to worry about. Also keep in mind that frequent posts don't make a knowledgable person.


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## Lawra (Oct 31, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Sorry if I came across as harsh , not the best week which is not your fault. I by no means am an expert but Jamie on the other hand has had more experience than I have had years alive. I usually find with my snakes that if they are stress free and well hydrated they will shed fine with the humidity of the surrounding area. As for the not eating stuff, as long as your snake is not losing weight there is nothing to worry about.



I don't think you were harsh, Andy. You were concise and didn't sugar coat the facts.

Camm, in my short few months of keeping and being a member of this site I have learnt that Snowman, Jamie and Andy (just to name a few, there are many others) are very experienced and if they've taken time out of their busy days to share their knowledge with you then you should be very thankful and listen to the advice given.


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## Snowman (Oct 31, 2013)

You wont get better advice than that of Jamie... 
It can be hard to know who to listen too when you join these forums. You will note that Jamie has been a member on here since 2005. That's usually a good indicator if you don't know anything about the person.

I'm not particularly experienced. I still regard myself as a noob, but if I don't know something I wont answer a question.


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## zulu (Oct 31, 2013)

Lawra said:


> I don't think you were harsh, Andy. You were concise and didn't sugar coat the facts.
> 
> Camm, in my short few months of keeping and being a member of this site I have learnt that Snowman, Jamie and Andy (just to name a few, there are many others) are very experienced and if they've taken time out of their busy days to share their knowledge with you then you should be very thankful and listen to the advice given.



In my tribe we have a saying , "you can lead a zebra to water but you cant make him drink" , mind you ,we dont handle our zebras every day and they wont fit in click clacks.


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## Camm8 (Oct 31, 2013)

By no means does anything anyone have to say come across harsh. I take everything on the chin. I have to with my line of work. I appreciate all the advice given to me. I haven't tried anything with this guy in the past month that hasn't been offered to me in advice. I stopped handling after the first refusal and only go near him to change water or offer a meal the next week. But now with a hopeful shed things will go back to normal. Just 4 weeks is different to his usual 1 week which has caused myself to stress and create this thread. Midsreps has kindly offered to give me a hand to get this little guy back on track which I greatly appreciate. I appreciate everyone else's advice and I haven't meant to get anyone else offended or upset by the way I have gone about things the past few weeks. I certainly didn't wish to portray myself as someone that doesn't take on other peoples advice as if I'm a know it all. 

Thanks and sorry 
Cam


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## andynic07 (Oct 31, 2013)

Camm8 said:


> By no means does anything anyone have to say come across harsh. I take everything on the chin. I have to with my line of work. I appreciate all the advice given to me. I haven't tried anything with this guy in the past month that hasn't been offered to me in advice. I stopped handling after the first refusal and only go near him to change water or offer a meal the next week. But now with a hopeful shed things will go back to normal. Just 4 weeks is different to his usual 1 week which has caused myself to stress and create this thread. Midsreps has kindly offered to give me a hand to get this little guy back on track which I greatly appreciate. I appreciate everyone else's advice and I haven't meant to get anyone else offended or upset by the way I have gone about things the past few weeks. I certainly didn't wish to portray myself as someone that doesn't take on other peoples advice as if I'm a know it all.
> 
> Thanks and sorry
> Cam


MidsReps has a few Stimmies and is a good guy, he should be able to help.


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## zulu (Oct 31, 2013)

I used to breed allot of stimsons and childreni ,they like folded paper towels in click clacks which they hide underneath in the blanket of warmth.
Dont handle the snake,some young ones like fresh killed rather than thawed and vice versa.
If its fed on small rats before dont go backwards with anything bird or lizard related ,will eat in its own time.
When i used to sell them ide give feed records and tell people to leave in clik clak ,then ide get calls that they was in this five hundred dollar kellyville cage and that snake would not eat or it escaped.
I dont keep them now because i was putting the same amount of feeding work into them as young GTPs for 100 bucks.


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## Camm8 (Nov 2, 2013)

After his bath and up in temp this is the nice little present he left for me


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## andynic07 (Nov 2, 2013)

Good luck with the feeding now, most of mine are keen on food after a shed.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 2, 2013)

Do experienced people here ever feel like tearing their hair out??? Camm8, don't start believing that snakes need baths to shed properly. Snakes have been successfully shedding for eons without interference from neurotic owners who often over-manage their animals literally to death. For goodness sake, Antaresias are hardy, tough animals that do VERY WELL without the crap you are imposing on your animal. The snake was obviously coming into a shed cycle anyway, but don't convince yourself that your interference "did the trick" - it was going to happen anyway, and probably with a lot less stress on the animal.

If it won't eat what it usually eats, then it's not hungry. Antaresias in the wild probably feed for about 3-4 months of the year, and then only about 3-4 times. It's what they do, and they have very well tuned energy budgets. They may eat more frequently in captivity, but then, all our captive snakes are over-fed because we like to see them eating, not because they need the food. Shedding is an area where newcomers seem unable to resist interference. When they are coming up to shed, LEAVE THEM ALONE - no handling and certainly NO BLOODY "BATHS."

I hate to see these poor animals tortured by newby keepers because they refuse fit the preconceptions of what a snake "should do" - it's the keeper who needs the help, not the snake.

I've said very often on here - you need ONE mentor whose knowledge and advice you can trust, and you need to stick to that advice. The more you canvass opinions from the wider herp community, the more confused and indecisive you will remain. You have received some very good advice in this thread from some very experienced keepers, but by and large you seem to have rejected it and done what you wanted to do because of your anxiety. Try and understand that the outcome is a natural event, and not because of the "success" of your strategy.

I've written this to try and prevent the same behaviour happening again the next time the poor animal is due for a shed.

Jamie


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## zulu (Nov 2, 2013)

Arr Jamie my friend ,this is brave new world ,people shower with snakes and bath snakes , have a go give your snake a bath


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## Snowman (Nov 2, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Do experienced people here ever feel like tearing their hair out??? Camm8, don't start believing that snakes need baths to shed properly. Snakes have been successfully shedding for eons without interference from neurotic owners who often over-manage their animals literally to death. For goodness sake, Antaresias are hardy, tough animals that do VERY WELL without the crap you are imposing on your animal. The snake was obviously coming into a shed cycle anyway, but don't convince yourself that your interference "did the trick" - it was going to happen anyway, and probably with a lot less stress on the animal.
> 
> If it won't eat what it usually eats, then it's not hungry. Antaresias in the wild probably feed for about 3-4 months of the year, and then only about 3-4 times. It's what they do, and they have very well tuned energy budgets. They may eat more frequently in captivity, but then, all our captive snakes are over-fed because we like to see them eating, not because they need the food. Shedding is an area where newcomers seem unable to resist interference. When they are coming up to shed, LEAVE THEM ALONE - no handling and certainly NO BLOODY "BATHS."
> 
> ...



It almost seem like some new keepers go out of their way to ignore good advice from experienced keepers. And seek the advice of other noobs, as that is more in line with what they want to hear and their pre conceived ideas about snake keeping.
Un necessary baths, showers, feeding, feeding specific colour mice, and the list goes on and on.... 
These poor reptiles that are being tortured just for the sake of someone who lacks common sense. At the end of the day our pythons require very little from us. And certainly much less than some of these people are giving them.


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## KaotikJezta (Nov 2, 2013)

About a third of my snakes refused their last feeds, the weather here has been weird so I am not at all stressed and they will be fed again when the majority are in hunt mode next. The more you fus and stress and try new things the more stressed and unlikely to eat the snake will be. I feed mine when they are actively looking for food which is generally not at all over winter and with varying degrees of regularity in the warmer months. I would also suggest that having a cool end of 27 is not having a cool end at all.


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