# Paradox Albino Darwin Carpets



## Morphed (Dec 15, 2011)

these were hatched out last year from a pair of hets.


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## -Katana- (Dec 15, 2011)

They look like calicos.


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## orientalis (Dec 15, 2011)

Good to see more finally being produced

While they are in low supply, they still fetch a premium.


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## krefft (Dec 15, 2011)

That's the coolest carpet I've ever seen. Congrats Morphed, you're a lucky guy!


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## Scleropages (Dec 15, 2011)

Is it the same snake?
You would have to breed it and see if it produces something nicer.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 15, 2011)

i prefer the normal albino. looks like this guy needs a bath JMO.


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## pythrulz (Dec 15, 2011)

Very nice Morphed seeing there are only a few breeding adults In the country you will get a high price for whatever can be produced for quite a few to come


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## Perko (Dec 15, 2011)

Can it get any nicer? 



Scleropages said:


> Is it the same snake?
> You would have to breed it and see if it produces something nicer.


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## jinjajoe (Dec 15, 2011)

all those pictures are photo-shopped. the second picture has been floating around with different back-grounds for at least 18 months making it impossible to be last years.........


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## Scleropages (Dec 15, 2011)

CraigP said:


> Can it get any nicer?



Yup.


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## sutto75 (Dec 15, 2011)

The market is set and im in for 37.55 inc GST. 2 please


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## -Katana- (Dec 15, 2011)

jinjajoe said:


> all those pictures are photo-shopped. the second picture has been floating around with different back-grounds for at least 18 months making it impossible to be last years.........



I smell troll.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 15, 2011)

I dunno if hes a troll or not but there are at least 3 threads that he has made reference to them today.


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## -Katana- (Dec 15, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> I dunno if hes a troll or not but there are at least 3 threads that he has made reference to them today.



I just hope someone doesn't send this clown any money until he posts a non-photo shopped picture with that exact same animal on a very recent national newspaper.


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## D3pro (Dec 15, 2011)

It's shopped. The shadow on the second pic is fake and the reflection on the left doesn't fully match the newspaper. Rookie


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## Waterrat (Dec 15, 2011)

The third shot is a classic. It can't get any worse - the photoshopping I mean.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 15, 2011)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/paradox-albino-darwin-142368/page/4

last few posts are more pics he put up today


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## starr9 (Dec 15, 2011)




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## Morphed (Dec 17, 2011)

ok, I can understand why your doubting.

first of all apologies if my poor photoshopping led you to believe i was just trolling the forum!

as you would be aware, snakes like this are incredibly rare; what are the odds of producing one of these? 1 in a million? perhaps.

the quick and nasty photoshopping in the images i posted yesterday was not to do with the snakes, they were left untouched. it was solely to remove anything from the background that may have given leads as to the identity of the owner or location

as a regular forum user (under another name of course!) i know there are often posts highlighting the need to keep a low profile collection and protect it from would be thieves. How many posts have there been recently concerning animals that have been stolen?

would you risk posting a photo of this animal if it was in your collection and your location was known? just look at the number of views on this thread.

a friend asked me to make some enquires about selling these animals so he has sent me the images and i have uploaded them.

As for some of you claiming to have seen the images before with different backgrounds, well thats just crap. photos of the snake have never been posted on line before, send me a link if you think they have.

snakes are the progeny of 2 hets. 

hatched out in late 2010.

here are some photos untouched by photoshop except for resizing for the web.

The hatchlings photo shows 2 paradox albinos (with black markings to different degrees) and a normal baby carpet.

will try and answer questions but my web access is limited


apologies and enquiries accepted by pm!


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## Tassie97 (Dec 17, 2011)

i didnt think paradox was an inheritable gene just a random mutation that cant be passed?


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 17, 2011)

LOl that 3rd pic looks like the snake has mould growing on it


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## Jungle_Freak (Dec 17, 2011)

Congrats Morphed ,
Good to see these paradox albinos being well documented with photos straight from the egg.
What sex are they ? male and female i hope.
What a terrific project.
cheers
Roger


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## Ramsayi (Dec 17, 2011)

Morphed said:


> the quick and nasty photoshopping in the images i posted yesterday was not to do with the snakes, they were left untouched. it was solely to remove anything from the background that may have given leads as to the identity of the owner or location
> 
> 
> a friend asked me to make some enquires about selling these animals so he has sent me the images and i have uploaded them.
> ...



Don't be so tight and buy a subscription.How would anything taken in the original pics give away the location they are kept at unless of course an address was written on the substrate?


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## Khagan (Dec 17, 2011)

Morphed said:


> as a regular forum user (under another name of course!)



You probably shouldn't admit to breaking site rules like that haha =p.


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## orientalis (Dec 17, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> i didnt think paradox was an inheritable gene just a random mutation that cant be passed?



Paradoxism is most definately inheritable.

Good to see other's being produced finally.


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## Tassie97 (Dec 17, 2011)

orientalis said:


> Paradoxism is most definately inheritable.
> 
> Good to see other's being produced finally.


ahuh ok sorry bout that then i thought i read an article some where hmmm :/


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## Ramsayi (Dec 17, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> i didnt think paradox was an inheritable gene just a random mutation that cant be passed?


That is my understanding of it as well.Would love to see some info that confirms it is heritable though.


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## Boidae (Dec 17, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> That is my understanding of it as well. Would love to see some info that confirms it is heritable though.



Dont hold your breath...


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## SteveNT (Dec 17, 2011)

They look like they spent an hour in a washing machine with 2 litres of bleach


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## Southside Morelia (Dec 17, 2011)

Morphed said:


> ok, I can understand why your doubting.
> 
> first of all apologies if my poor photoshopping led you to believe i was just trolling the forum!
> 
> ...



Congrats to the breeder Morphed. 

Well I hope this post above, shuts up some of the doubting Thomas's. lol

I remember a thread not that long ago about the Albino BHP's and everybody doubting them....Again same scenario, the breeder wanted to keep his/her identity a secret, nothing wrong with that in my books, especially as morphed has said, too many jerks ripping people off.


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## orientalis (Dec 17, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> That is my understanding of it as well.Would love to see some info that confirms it is heritable though.



Rams, if it wasn't inheritable, how then do you explain them being reproduced by several different sources right across this country and also overseas?

Firstly, i am not making any argument for "Morphed" or whoever he's posting on behalf of and these animals pictured are not our animals either (our eggs are all very healthy still for the complete period of incubation!), and have nothing to do with these latest threads, pictures or otherwise.......I also don't wish to sit here arguing for hours......You want to see information that confirms it is inheritable.......some of this you will know, but i'll start at the beginning.

Secondly, Information to prove it is inheritable......Well, try this.......Simon produced offspring from 2 wild caught animals, 1 albino, 1 normal.......in 2000 the first F1's are produced, from this pairing, it is my understanding that half the clutch was kept back and bred to each other (F1 x F1 - fully related siblings).........in 2003 the first captive bred albino's were produced, along with other het's.....all these were F2's (very few of these were sold in first qtr of 2005).......in 2004 SXR again produced F2's and guess what????????
Some of these 2004 F2 albino's had black pigment on them! (they didn't see them and subsequently were sold)
In 2005, the same thing happened again!!!!

(It probably has happened at SXR since too, probably even to other's as 100% are not held back)

Coincidentally all these F2 animals produced at SXR with melanin on them, but from both 2004 and 2005 clutches have the same F1 mother.
SXR do not know if the same male was the Sire as multiple males were used.......but it really doesn't matter, they all came from F1's which were all from the original wild caughts, all fully related siblings!

Now this fact alone, that several animals from 2 seperate clutches (different seasons) from the same Dam all have black, grey and brown pigment on them.......proves it's inheritable.....HOW else can this be explained?

Then we come to 2006, 2007 and so on and so on until today.........2011.......it's still happening, that is.....Albino's are being hatched with melanin on them!

INHERITABLE!!!!!!

Just because SXR did not SEE and hold back EVERY animal that had melanin on them, does not MEAN that SXR did not produce other's and certainly is incorrect that "Destiny" is a one off.

JUST because it is a rare occurence, doesn't make this a spontaneous mutation, a chimera or any other hogwash which ill informed "critics" write article or post comments about.

MAYBE, just MAYBE......this form of albinism is NOT correctly labelled???? That is, maybe it's not T- because this form of albinism does infact produce albino's with melanin.......What should it be labelled? No idea....

Further more....I believe that Paradoxism, Piebaldism, Leucism and Albinism are all closely related.
These all effect the pigment and are all inheritable traits.

Give it 5, 10 years and we'll see these other traits being produced and some more regularly too.....along with more black on albino's.

Oh, and i'm only talking about 100% pure variegata, "Blondie" line, not Jags either.

There is also the fact that "Phoenix" line has also produced Paradox albino's, so if that IS a completely different bloodline to "Blondie", that should also show you confirmation that Paradoxism is inheritable........Eitherway, it is inheritable.

I believe it's a multi combinational mode of inheritance from our own results.

It occurs from both het and albino dam's and they can both emerge from the egg with the markings fully visible and also take several months to show (just keeping them on pure white paper towel). No excrement, no newspaper ink, no injections, no photo editing......melanin!

MANY keepers in Australia have albino's with various amounts of melanin on them, i posted a thread last year asking "who else has black pigment on their albino's" and other's contacted me from this......I have also spoken with several other breeders who have reported varying amounts of pigment on their albino's too and have been sent pictures by a few of these people, along with questions about lineage and Dam history etc.......

So, like it or not, it's happening and is not a one in a million trait, i doubt that there has even been 1000 albino's produced world wide yet!

I have no idea who started this thread or who owns these animals in the pictures.

I do not doubt they are genuine and it's great to see other's.

Good Luck to everyone who owns albino's, (including you Ram's), may you all hatch SOMETHING unusual, as albino's have near limitless potential as far as i'm concerned.........Looooooong way to go with this morph


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## mungus (Dec 17, 2011)

Man, thats the longest reply to a thread i've read in ages..............lol


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## Ramsayi (Dec 17, 2011)

mungus said:


> Man, thats the longest reply to a thread i've read in ages..............lol


 :lol: 

orientalis I dont know why you directed all that at me when all I did was respond to Tassie97 stating that what he believed I also believe,how that equates to an argument is beyond me.

Paradox pythons have been breed OS for a long time yet I can find no evidence written that supports it is heritable.If it is indeed heritable then what is the mode of inheritance? Until that can be established if it can at all,the trait remains unproven. 

I am well aware of the history of blondies line.I was one of the lucky ones to get some of the first release as you well know.


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## Tassie97 (Dec 17, 2011)

orientails PMed me bout it


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## matt1084 (Dec 17, 2011)

just my opinion but they dont look that nice, i can see the hype over jags and RPM and albino snakes but a morph that makes the snake look dirty just doesnt seem warrant of the money that will be asked for them... like i said JMO.


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## Kurto (Dec 17, 2011)

Morphed said:


> as a regular forum user (under another name of course!) i know there are often posts highlighting the need to keep a low profile collection and protect it from would be thieves. How many posts have there been recently concerning animals that have been stolen?




Why are you allowed 2 accounts?


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## Southside Morelia (Dec 17, 2011)

mungus said:


> Man, thats the longest reply to a thread i've read in ages..............lol



OMG is what I first thought and that post was an eyesore at first glance, I agree Mungus... but a good post never the less... lol


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## Tassie97 (Dec 17, 2011)

well he is suspended now so i wonder if thats permanent?!


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## marrakai (Dec 18, 2011)

*paradox albino carpet*

hi everyone l am new to this furum.please forgive my spelling.to long in papua new guinea.little time at school..this paradox is mine.it was one of two that hatched out 2010 from a per of hets that came from sxrs 4 years ago,the frist year l put them to geather,l stuffed it up by putting an extra male albino in, got 4 albinos /20normals/hets?the following year,20 eggs from just hets 2 albino/2paradox albino/16normal
as thay were hatching l could see the two light albinos clearly,and the normals clearly,these other two were darker than the albinos lighter than the normals as the photos put in by my great friend Morphed,l figgered that l stuffed it with the incubater,l have never here of paradox albino till l sent a photo to simon sxr to find out what this was.that photo the first to leave my camera was three weeks ago not years,or months ago.
l was told that it was very rare.my concern was that there are poeple out there who would do harm too get this kind of animal ,l live remote do not need these types around my young family..l ask my friend to put the photos out there without showing were it is..Morphed is not a liar,or a clown .he is the very best friend one could hope to meet.he and my partner myself have been guides in kakadu national park for 15 years,we meet at the herp meets at the museum in sydney 1978,the snake may not be pritty to everyone ,no snake is??all l what is to let you all know that this carpet is real and that it is available for them who do find it nice,l have watched it grow..the photos do not show its true colours as with any albino there are colours that just don,t show up..the photo shopping that h did was to protect me and mine,l am sorry that l have imbarrest him this way.


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## dylan-rocks (Dec 18, 2011)

marrakai said:


> hi everyone l am new to this furum.please forgive my spelling.to long in papua new guinea.little time at school..this paradox is mine.it was one of two that hatched out 2010 from a per of hets that came from sxrs 4 years ago,the frist year l put them to geather,l stuffed it up by putting an extra male albino in, got 4 albinos /20normals/hets?the following year,20 eggs from just hets 2 albino/2paradox albino/16normal
> as thay were hatching l could see the two light albinos clearly,and the normals clearly,these other two were darker than the albinos lighter than the normals as the photos put in by my great friend Morphed,l figgered that l stuffed it with the incubater,l have never here of paradox albino till l sent a photo to simon sxr to find out what this was.that photo the first to leave my camera was three weeks ago not years,or months ago.
> l was told that it was very rare.my concern was that there are poeple out there who would do harm too get this kind of animal ,l live remote do not need these types around my young family..l ask my friend to put the photos out there without showing were it is..Morphed is not a liar,or a clown .he is the very best friend one could hope to meet.he and my partner myself have been guides in kakadu national park for 15 years,we meet at the herp meets at the museum in sydney 1978,the snake may not be pritty to everyone ,no snake is??all l what is to let you all know that this carpet is real and that it is available for them who do find it nice,l have watched it grow..the photos do not show its true colours as with any albino there are colours that just don,t show up..the photo shopping that h did was to protect me and mine,l am sorry that l have imbarrest him this way.



would love to see some picture of them now


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## Crystal..Discus (Dec 19, 2011)

Kind of reminds me of what happens when I fall asleep on a freshly inked drawing :lol:


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## marrakai (Dec 19, 2011)

hi dylan..the photos are already posted by morphed,thay include when thayhatched12010 and three weeks ago.
l have new one on mag dated 2012,but dont know how to down size for up loading to this furum.l need morphed for that.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 19, 2011)

marrakai said:


> hi dylan..the photos are already posted by morphed,thay include when thayhatched12010 and three weeks ago.
> l have new one on mag dated 2012,but dont know how to down size for up loading to this furum.l need morphed for that.


Upload them to Photobucket then copy and paste the img code into here


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

i also hatched a paradox out during 2010 from a albino male to a normal it was the only one out of 16 hatchlings that showed this trait and i have kept her back as you can understand, i have bred the male albino back to the same mother and the eggs are due to hatch on 24.1.12 so fingers crossed ?.
the thing i find amazing about my paradox is that the scales that were white have now turned yellow just like you would see in a pure albino as it grows, my girl has one eye that looks more like a albinos eye and the other looks normal will be great to see how similar they grow up compaired to my girl.
and i agree that photos do not show the true colours


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## Retic (Dec 19, 2011)

Spotlight, that looks more like a Calico than a Paradox to me.


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks boa,what is the main diff between the two (paradox and calico) ?


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## BenReyn (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh wow, I've never seen paradox on an Australian albino before. Lookin' sharp!


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## Colin (Dec 19, 2011)

boa said:


> Spotlight, that looks more like a Calico than a Paradox to me.



I agree with boa, doesnt look like a paradox to me. 



> Dave Barker claims that paradox albinos are a genetic, "chimera." What he means by this is that the paradox albinos are both het for albinos and albinos at the same time as far as phenotype goes. When it comes to breeding some produce like hets and others produce like albinos. At this time all the paradox albinos that I know of have been produced by het to het or albino to het pairings. There are no albino x albino pairings that produce paradox because the het component is not present and will not show up if the paradox condition is present.


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

so what do you think she is a Calico? , she was produced from a albino male and a normal non het female ?, with the yellow starting to show now she definatly has albino in her makeup.


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## Retic (Dec 19, 2011)

No problem. Basically a calico is an animal that has an almost washed out appearance and has patches of pink or white over it's body. They don't display any of the albino traits such as a pink tongue and eyes. 
A paradox is an albino which has patches of black on it's body, paradox literally means contradiction, an albino shouldn't be able to produce any melanin but they still do. 
I actually prefer the look of the calico especially as they get older. 



spotlight said:


> Thanks boa,what is the main diff between the two (paradox and calico) ?



She has no real albino characteristics, the colouring definitely screams calico to me, it is as if the wild type colouring has been rubbed off leaving patches of the base colour . I hope that makes sense ? LOL.



spotlight said:


> so what do you think she is a Calico? , she was produced from a albino male and a normal non het female ?, with the yellow starting to show now she definatly has albino in her makeup.


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

thankyou for the info on paradox/calico boa, so the fact that her white patches are turning more yellow with every shed and the one eye that has almost an albino look to it except for dark iris still falls into the calico basket? would be great to put a name to her finally.


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## Minka (Dec 19, 2011)

spotlight said:


> thankyou for the info on paradox/calico boa, so the fact that her white patches are turning more yellow with every shed and the one eye that has almost an albino look to it except for dark iris still falls into the calico basket? would be great to put a name to her finally.




I agree with Boa, not a paradox albino. She could be a Calico... it would be useful to see some progression images of her now though.


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

Minka said:


> I agree with Boa, not a paradox albino. She could be a Calico... it would be useful to see some progression images of her now though.



will take few more of her this week and submit, the main problem is the coulours just dont show up on camera as everyone with albinos know.
she looks better and better with every shed


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## Retic (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes definitely calico in my opinion. The colour change from white to yellow would just be a normal change as the snake ages. 



spotlight said:


> thankyou for the info on paradox/calico boa, so the fact that her white patches are turning more yellow with every shed and the one eye that has almost an albino look to it except for dark iris still falls into the calico basket? would be great to put a name to her finally.


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## Colin (Dec 19, 2011)

spotlight said:


> so what do you think she is a Calico? , she was produced from a albino male and a normal non het female ?, with the yellow starting to show now she definatly has albino in her makeup.



very hard to say spotlight it may well be paradox but doesnt look like any Ive seen before as all have basically been mainly albino with the black sections the normal darwin genetic material showing through.. 

In the dave barker quote I posted above most seem to be from het albino x het albino or albino x het albino. 

this one being from albino x normal 
If its a paradox I would guess its a "paradox het albino" with any yellow showing through the albino genetic material? but it may well be a calico as suggested.


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## lgotje (Dec 19, 2011)

Interesting stuff going on here can't wait to see what the future brings


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## snakebag (Dec 19, 2011)

It may be calico but it may also be a new mutation. Calico just mean random patches of colour for example a marbled childrens could be called calico. Its hard to put a lable on a mutation before mode of inheretance is proven and with an animal like that it would be hard to pinpoint. In the end if it proves out just name it what you want.


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## spotlight (Dec 19, 2011)

sorry for taking over your thread Morphed and Marrakai, i was just interested in the fact that other snakes like the girl i hatched out were around good luck in the future guys.
ill put up some newer photos during the week of my paradox/calico or what ever she is ???.


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## marrakai (Dec 19, 2011)

thay were breed from het to het ,the three on post are from same clutch,do you get calicos from albinos.

photo shopped to hide were l live,the animals are real


Waterrat said:


> The third shot is a classic. It can't get any worse - the photoshopping I mean.



snakes are real shopping to hide were l live.


Waterrat said:


> The third shot is a classic. It can't get any worse - the photoshopping I mean.



nature has away of upsetting the exports.


Tassie97 said:


> i didnt think paradox was an inheritable gene just a random mutation that cant be passed?



snake was in shed mode,you get that


Geckoman said:


> LOl that 3rd pic looks like the snake has mould growing on it



l live remot ,the photo showed news paper easy to find were l live,there are poeple who would do us harm to get this snake


Ramsayi said:


> Don't be so tight and buy a subscription.How would anything taken in the original pics give away the location they are kept at unless of course an address was written on the substrate?


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## Waterrat (Dec 19, 2011)

marrakai said:


> photo shopped to hide were l live,the animals are real
> snakes are real shopping to hide were l live.



Good on you marrakay for explaining it. The photoshopping was obvious and always raise suspicions. I trust you understand.

cheers


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## marrakai (Dec 19, 2011)

yer lspend my day bleaching snake s what about you


SteveNT said:


> They look like they spent an hour in a washing machine with 2 litres of bleach



from small things big things grow,you should see them in real life,photo to hard to get all that thay are


matt1084 said:


> just my opinion but they dont look that nice, i can see the hype over jags and RPM and albino snakes but a morph that makes the snake look dirty just doesnt seem warrant of the money that will be asked for them... like i said JMO.


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## abnrmal91 (Dec 19, 2011)

You would have been better starting this thread will a clear pic of the snake in a plastic container. That would have avoided the problems. Having half a photo edited will always leave it open for the other half picked to pieces. That way there can be no confusion/way of tracking the snakes down based upon a newspaper


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## marrakai (Dec 19, 2011)

no worrys my friend morphed is top shelf bloke the saints have to look to see him.


Waterrat said:


> Good on you marrakay for explaining it. The photoshopping was obvious and always raise suspicions. I trust you understand.
> 
> cheers



l only have dailup it takes ages to send aphoto,morphed lives around computers and had these photos .


abnrmal91 said:


> You would have been better starting this thread will a clear pic of the snake in a plastic container. That would have avoided the problems. Having half a photo edited will always leave it open for the other half picked to pieces. That way there can be no confusion/way of tracking the snakes down based upon a newspaper



no worrys my friend morphed is top shelf bloke the saints have to look to see him.


Waterrat said:


> Good on you marrakay for explaining it. The photoshopping was obvious and always raise suspicions. I trust you understand.
> 
> cheers



l only have dailup it takes ages to send aphoto,morphed lives around computers and had these photos .


abnrmal91 said:


> You would have been better starting this thread will a clear pic of the snake in a plastic container. That would have avoided the problems. Having half a photo edited will always leave it open for the other half picked to pieces. That way there can be no confusion/way of tracking the snakes down based upon a newspaper



heres the most recent photo. the mag is just 4x4's january 2012 edition just out


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## zulu (Dec 21, 2011)

Does look like an albino with black pigment,really radical looking snake well done marraki.


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## Darlyn (Dec 21, 2011)

Wow, confusion reigns in my head. Breed a snake cos it has no colour, then breed it cos the no colour has black in it.
Interesting subject.


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## Exotic_Doc (Dec 22, 2011)

Darlyn, i think the real point is the uniqueness of the snake and the $$ attached to it.


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## URS (Dec 22, 2011)

*Paradox*

This ones on its way out of the egg today.




regards Tim


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## orientalis (Dec 22, 2011)

Congrat's TIM.

Again, GREAT to see that this trait is INHERITABLE and being produced by other's and now hopefully the wider community here and overseas will accept this is not a fluke mutation and in time i'm sure that more people will produce albino darwins with black on them too. 

When you sex it let me know and thanks for the pictures.


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## waruikazi (Dec 22, 2011)

But does that really prove inheritability? 



orientalis said:


> Congrat's TIM.
> 
> Again, GREAT to see that this trait is INHERITABLE and being produced by other's and now hopefully the wider community here and overseas will accept this is not a fluke mutation and in time i'm sure that more people will produce albino darwins with black on them too.
> 
> When you sex it let me know and thanks for the pictures.


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## orientalis (Dec 22, 2011)

(F2's) which hatched in 2004 and 2005, which all share the same F1 Dam and all have melanin on them, have produced albino offspring with melanin on them for the last 5 seasons (since 2007).
That proves it!

Couple this with the fact there are now multiple other people breeding albino's with melanin on them (which all just happen to be related to each other by the way (F1's and F2's).

All the parents of each specimen are ALL descendants of Blondie, with the exception of the Phoenix specimen ofcourse.


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## waruikazi (Dec 22, 2011)

OK, cool. I thought you were saying that two random paradoxes=proven inheritability. Does anyone have pictures of these whole clutches with melanin on them?


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## junglepython2 (Dec 22, 2011)

To be a paradox albino they must be albino so by default they must all be related. It may well be inheritable but it certainly isn't proven.


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## waruikazi (Dec 22, 2011)

There's two albino darwin lines.



junglepython2 said:


> To be a paradox albino they must be albino so by default they must all be related. It may well be inheritable but it certainly isn't proven.


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## junglepython2 (Dec 22, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> There's two albino darwin lines.



Yes but it is almost certainly the exact same mutation and blondie and pheonix very closely related anyway.


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## paultheo (Dec 22, 2011)

junglepython2 said:


> Yes but it is almost certainly the exact same mutation and blondie and pheonix very closely related anyway.




if they are related in any way at all then they cant be a separate line can they? I mean if they are related and Blondie was the original albino that Pheonix came from then really it's a Blondie line, yes? or are they related in a different way? Please explain to me how Phoenix and Blondie can be closely related and yet they claim them to be separate lines? Please dont take this as an agressive post im just a bit confused with the whole Phoenix/Blondie thing, call me dumb if you wish but i cant fathom how it works.


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## junglepython2 (Dec 22, 2011)

paultheo said:


> if they are related in any way at all then they cant be a separate line can they? I mean if they are related and Blondie was the original albino that Pheonix came from then really it's a Blondie line, yes? or are they related in a different way? Please explain to me how Phoenix and Blondie can be closely related and yet they claim them to be separate lines? Please dont take this as an agressive post im just a bit confused with the whole Phoenix/Blondie thing, call me dumb if you wish but i cant fathom how it works.



If you believe in both tales of origin, they come from a similar area, there is a likely quite a few wild Hets kicking around, which would ultimately be related.


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## URS (Dec 24, 2011)

Had a number of PM's asking to see this little ripper when out of the egg, so heres a couple of pictures.


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## jahan (Dec 24, 2011)

Well done Tim.
Looks like santa came early.


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## deebo (Dec 24, 2011)

Has anyone bred two paradoxes together or does it have to be a albino to het, or het to het pairing?


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## Snake_Whisperer (Dec 24, 2011)

URS said:


> Had a number of PM's asking to see this little ripper when out of the egg, so heres a couple of pictures.



Looking good Tim, congrats! What's up with the animal on the left, it has an interesting look to it as well! 

In the interest on not flying off the handle the day before xmas, to the knockers, if you don't understand why folks like to breed different looking animals, and have nothing good to say, all you have to do is not look at them and don't buy them. Plenty of people around who like them to take up the slack. Simple! As Fay said elsewhere... can't we all just...get along?

On the subject of paradoxes, the numbers turning up far exceed what you expect out of chaimerism, so I'de say there is likely another new morph in town! A mate of mine who can't be bothered with the forums (too much horsepucky getting thrown around) just hatched out a paradox himself. Early stages but seems to me that this morph is in all likelihood heritable. Not necesssarily in one of the common modes, but again, the numbers are awfully high to be passsed off as the extremely rare chimerism. Though, could be that these lines getting around are prone to produce chaimeras, who knows. Time will tell.

Marrakai, I love the look of your animal! What's the parentage? Certainly a line worth pursuing IMO. 

Happy Festivus everybody!
A.


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## URS (Dec 24, 2011)

David Evans said:


> Has anyone bred two paradoxes together or does it have to be a albino to het, or het to het pairing?



Hi David, these came form het to het.

Regards Tim.
URS



Snake_Whisperer said:


> Looking good Tim, congrats! What's up with the animal on the left, it has an interesting look to it as well!
> 
> In the interest on not flying off the handle the day before xmas, to the knockers, if you don't understand why folks like to breed different looking animals, and have nothing good to say, all you have to do is not look at them and don't buy them. Plenty of people around who like them to take up the slack. Simple! As Fay said elsewhere... can't we all just...get along?
> 
> ...



Hi

Yes the one on the left is a bit differnet, Caloicish I reckon few feeds and a couple of slough and we will be able to see what going to happen with this one it doe's look like it has some potential.

Regards Tim
URS


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## snakebag (Dec 24, 2011)

Sounds like everyone is breeding calicos . Thats three new calico lines labeled from this one group of paradox threads. At this rate we should have about 15 different blood lines of calico in the next five years.


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## Retic (Dec 24, 2011)

It seems clear that the calico 'morph' will become more and more common judging by the numbers popping up.


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## snakebag (Dec 24, 2011)

Lol


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## Perko (Dec 24, 2011)

They look great. Now if someone posts a pic of a pie bald i will officially have no more jizz to jizz!



URS said:


> Had a number of PM's asking to see this little ripper when out of the egg, so heres a couple of pictures.


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## URS (Jan 1, 2012)

*paradox albino*



CraigP said:


> They look great. Now if someone posts a pic of a pie bald i will officially have no more jizz to jizz!



CraigP,
Hang on to that jizz you never no what might get bred next year or is that this year now.
Happy New year to you all!

Regards Tim


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## reptileaddiction (Jan 1, 2012)

URS said:


> CraigP,
> Hang on to that jizz you never no what might get bred next year or is that this year now.
> Happy New year to you all!
> 
> Regards Tim



Or what has already been bred and is being kept under wraps!


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## citrus (Mar 16, 2012)

CraigP said:


> They look great. Now if someone posts a pic of a pie bald i will officially have no more jizz to jizz!



already out there! im pretty sure he posted something on here and then took it down just to stir the pot. alot of people know of them and who he is they are pure darwins.


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## spotlight (Mar 16, 2012)

URS said:


> Had a number of PM's asking to see this little ripper when out of the egg, so heres a couple of pictures.



hey Tim any updated pics ???, its amazing what is poping out every breeding season.
im running out of cages for my hold backs LOL


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 26, 2012)

Whats the latest ? any update pics ..


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## URS (May 3, 2012)

Hi Guys & Girls,

As requested here and in a lot of PM’s that have been sent.


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## Perko (May 3, 2012)

I think im in love!



URS said:


> Hi Guys & Girls,
> 
> As requested here and in a lot of PM’s that have been sent.


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## jahan (May 3, 2012)

Looking good Tim.


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## ForgottenXo (May 3, 2012)

Absolutely Stunning


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## xmickx (May 5, 2012)

they are looking awsome


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## URS (May 25, 2012)

jahan said:


> Looking good Tim.



Yes it is and its getting better as time goes on.

Regards Tim


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## citrus (May 25, 2012)

It's good to see them with more and more black


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## snakefreak16 (Jul 7, 2012)

how much are you selling them for   im quite interested


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## ghosts (Jul 8, 2012)

the question i have is are they T+ or T- albinos?

In T- albinos tyrosinase is not produced by the melanophores and no melanin is ever created. So the reptile has absolutely no dark pigment whatsoever. In T+ albinos, tyrosinase is produced but is blocked from gaining access into the melanophores. So all parts are present, they just can’t mix. But in some specimens there is a certain amount of ‘mixing’ that occurs by cells disrupting and results in small amounts of melanin being visible. so in saying that how can a albino Darwin be T- , when they produce paradox albinos on a regular basis?

I think that paradox is incorrect term for them as they are being produced season after season and they are also being breed from albino to albino so this would rule out the siamese twins theory. Which makes it possible that they are actually T+ and the 'paradox' is a leaky gene allowing the melanin (black pigment) to come through

????


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## phatty (Oct 15, 2012)

this is a photo of me with Marrakai's snake from the week end beautiful snake


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## Variety (Oct 15, 2012)

phatty said:


> View attachment 267818
> 
> this is a photo of me with Marrakai's snake from the week end beautiful snake


Beautiful, deserves its own thread in my opinion.


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## Madders (Nov 4, 2012)

This is fascinating stuff, I can't wait to get into breeding and genetics, I'm looking at a 100% het for albino Darwin ATM


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## CantBeatALBINOS (Aug 6, 2013)

Just asking but more updated pics on these guys?


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## Justdragons (Aug 6, 2013)

By the looks of things the Op is out of action.. I didnt re read the whole thread again though so if there is someone still kicking about with these guys you might get lucky..


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## phatty (Aug 6, 2013)

I believe he has since sold these guys but there are more around some better looking that others tho

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## andynic07 (Aug 6, 2013)

The one that Troy from Scales and Tails is a really nice one.


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## CantBeatALBINOS (Aug 6, 2013)

phatty said:


> I believe he has since sold these guys but there are more around some better looking that others tho
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 4 Beta



Actaul spewing! Haha you'd be loving life, you got to see and hold one)):


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## paultheo (Aug 7, 2013)

didn't Simon Stone offer up a whole breeding program that he was working with some six months ago? i seem to remember getting an e-mail from him but i was in hospital and didn't read it until a month later. spewing. from memory the dam and sire and a whole clutch of around 15- 20 neos were all offered as a package deal, all displaying various amounts of melanin.


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## CameronWright (Aug 7, 2013)

Paradox isn't genetic.. 


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## paultheo (Aug 8, 2013)

CameronWright said:


> Paradox isn't genetic..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



oh. and you would know better than the people breeding them, or perhaps you are a genius 16 yo that knows more about genetics than those of us who have studied it in uni....?


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## Ramsayi (Aug 8, 2013)

paultheo said:


> oh. and you would know better than the people breeding them, or perhaps you are a genius 16 yo that knows more about genetics than those of us who have studied it in uni....?



Are they genetic and if so what is the mode of inheritance? Can you cite anything about it being that way?


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## phatty (Aug 8, 2013)

I have heard proven parents can produce more but don't know the mode of inheritance could be similar to gtp 

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## phatty (Aug 8, 2013)

Eg 2 high yellow gtp does not mean you will produce all high yellows you might only produce greens 

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## champagne (Aug 8, 2013)

they aren't a simple mode of inheritance. If you breed two paradox carpets together doesn't mean they will produce more, also you may get one from a pair doesn't mean they will produce any again.


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## champagne (Aug 8, 2013)

the more they are line bred the more they seem to pop up but will you ever get constant or large numbers in one clutch, I doubt it.


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## AmazingMorelia (Aug 8, 2013)

There is a heap of albinos for sale on another site from a SA breeder. Something like 100 of them. Who would have this many?


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## champagne (Aug 8, 2013)

why don't you ask him


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## phatty (Aug 8, 2013)

20 per clutch x 5 pairs is not hard I guess

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## champagne (Aug 8, 2013)

I don't think he has 100 for sale if you read the ad it says the quality of the hatchlings are in the top 100 of all the albinos he has produced.


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## Kurtis (Aug 8, 2013)

He is for real, I have purchased off him in the past. Best albino breeder in aus IMO.


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## champagne (Aug 8, 2013)

Kurtis said:


> He is for real, I have purchased off him in the past. Best albino breeder in aus IMO.



he is, just ask him and he'll tell you


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## mungus (Aug 11, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> he is, just ask him and he'll tell you



Thats an all time classic :lol:


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## snakefreak16 (Aug 11, 2013)

mungus said:


> Thats an all time classic :lol:



What's that supposed to mean ???


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## iHerp (Oct 30, 2013)

How are these produced?

- - - Updated - - -

As in.. what was bred to get the first paradox? was it breed by luck?


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## slide (Oct 31, 2013)

iHerp, check out posts #31 and #70 from Orientalis this should hopefully answer your question. F1 is the first generation offspring and when you breed the F1's you get F2 generation as their offspring. 


For those who have real breeding experience with a paradox...
When a paradox is bred to an albino will they produce all albino offsping or do they reproduce like a het and throw 50% of the clutch as albino?
I think this would be likely to shed some light on the chimera theories. 

Aaron


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