# Darwin Crocodylus Park



## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

Heys guys
I just got back from a school trip to N.T this mornin, which was absolutely unreal. Although while we were in Darwin we stopped off at the Crocodylus park, (their main business is farming crocodileles but they have a descent range of other animals) and I was really #&%*@! off and outraged at the conditions that the animals were being kept. The thing that really annoyed me was the amount of salty's bein kept in the one enclosure and the state of that enclosure, but also of other animals. 13 ft+ adult crocs were being kept in tiny enclosures measuring around 3.5 mt x 6mt with a pond so small they can barely submerge let alone swim even havin a male and female in the same enclosure, 240 2mt crocs in the same enclosure (apparently the tip of the iceburge!), tigers being kept in ridiculously small enclosures that they were pacing, overweight crocs being overfed so that they can put on a show for the tourists, hawksbill turtles in concrete pits with a bit of land(also concrete) and a tonne of dry food floating on the waters surface. Theres more but to much deatil.

If anyone else has been to this park and wants a to have a say (agree or disagree) I wanna hear it!!

I would of supplied pics but my camera was stolen while i was there (bugger!), but ill see if i can get some off my mates

Cheers Matt


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## Davo66 (Jul 6, 2007)

I went there a few years ago and agree with the conditions you have mentioned, in particular the very small enclosures they have huge crocs in. The animals are much longer then the width of their pens!. Not a croc expert but seem very small to me!

Davo


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## 0_missy_0 (Jul 6, 2007)

That sounds terrible. I should go up there and give them a piece of my mind!!:x:cry:


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

B4 you go opening your mouth and bad mouthing the place you went to did you think to ask if they were expanding??? Well just so you know they are making other pond to keep the saltie's in.. I know I live here and have a best mate who works there... Til you know full details matey please don't put anything down... It would be like if I went somewhere you were from and I said something bad... It don't feel good....


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## Glider (Jul 6, 2007)

I think you need to remember that Crocodylus is a working crocodile farm and research facility. I'm guessing that you haven't been to any other crocodile farms before, but I can tell you that the conditions the crocs are kept in are generally average to above average for that industry. Just think about pig farms or chicken farms. Not the nicest of places, but considered safe and acceptable stocking levels for the animals.

Its much the same as someone who hasn't kept snakes before might be upset at seeing a large snake kept in a seemingly small wooden box lined with newspaper. Those big breeder crocs have all their basic needs met- some sun, come shade, some grass, a pool of water, enough room to move around a bit, appropriate food brought to them regularly and a breeding program that seems to be very sucessful as a result of that.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

As far as I know there is only one tiger and the space for one is fine. Lions also I as I've seen there kept in a decent Cage enough space for the 3-4 of them. As I said they are expanding but waiting on the contractor's and approval to clear more land.....So until then if you don't know the full story dont be so harsh.. Oh and im not being a rude person either. It's hard to say what ya want on here without ppl taking it the wrong way


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 6, 2007)

I live up there but never been to the park as of yet, I've driven past plenty of times but never been.
They are building another erea for the croc's at the moment but what a joke that is, there making it in Dawin on michell street big block but not near anouph the size they should be kept in they also have so rediculas ideas for the park too, makeing swimming pools devided with glass and the croc's on the other side. what happen's the thing smashes it or jumps the glass all I can see is desaster after desaster happening here. god Crocadilas and the other crocadile farm reports croc's exscaping from the facinity can you imagine croc's excaping in the city and haveing a large 4-6 metre croc of the streets and eating tourists. Bloody crazy they better make strong walls other than wire fences and stuff.

cheers Jody


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Jody there is alot more to what you have heard..... Ok things how you have heard about the other part being for crocodylus park in town isnt for crocodylus park... It's going to be a reptile park thing for tourists and the swimming pool thing hasnt been approved as of yet. As they arent quite sure if they are going to do that... Cause not every person who lives in town want's to drive all they way to the croc farm or to crocodylus park.. Hence why they are doing one in town.. Oh and the escapee's from the croc farm down at noonahmah didnt get very far....


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

Aussie Python Lover said:


> B4 you go opening your mouth and bad mouthing the place you went to did you think to ask if they were expanding??? Well just so you know they are making other pond to keep the saltie's in.. I know I live here and have a best mate who works there... Til you know full details matey please don't put anything down... It would be like if I went somewhere you were from and I said something bad... It don't feel good....



Look mate I dont want to make an enemy here but from what ive been told its been like that for quite a while.
and the question that needs to be asked is not are they expanding?, but why havnt they already or why keep the animals when they do not have the room to keep such large animals at that time?
you cannot honestly tell me that you would let someone get a herp if they didnt have the correct sized enclosure....

I know what i said was harsh, but keeping some of those crocs in those conditions is also harsh, they need space like any other large animal, including those tigers. Also are they making another pond to give them salties more room, or to boost the numbers?

And I know havin someone sledge ya mates work doesnt feel good, but neither does seeing crocs stacked on one another like bricks or crammed into a pond when they are designed to require space.

And glider you said it was better then most other farms in Oz....fair enough...but we shouldnt be comparing other croc farms to decide whats best for these animals. and also the chooks and pigs we have aswell.....i put the crocs in the same category as the livestock, and neither animal should have to be kept in those conditions!

Sorry if I got up some peoples noses but there has to be a point where an animals welfare is more important then money and our desire to keep and see animals

sorry once again but apprecaite your view


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## Isis (Jul 6, 2007)

Hmm APL doesnt seem like they read your posts does it. I have heard about the plans they have too and they sound good. As you said it is a working farm...... oh how nice it would be to live in a perfect world.


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 6, 2007)

sorry it could be another mob that are building a croc theam park thing in the city but I still think its a joke building somewhere there it could caurse a lot of danger and demage if one ever got loose.

and yes they are exspanding the erea of where they are now, as simone pointed out. Have you seen the size of the land there on it is hude and they have to wait for the all clear before they go for there lives to make it bigger, there not hartless people and do you know how quick croc's breed? very farst.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Dude its a croc farm used for breeding and stuff the crocs in the long pens are fine they are fed right and not all of the pens have two crocs in them.. did you happen to look under the walkway where the crocs are in the concrete ponds with the grass at the back? that is plenty of room for them they are there for breeding purposes nothing more special then that.. It is cruel for an animal if u keep it and not feed it or clean thier pens. But these crocs are very well looked after.. As I said they are for farming and breeding. Ive seen worser places. As for them expanding for more ponds its for those that are already in the bigger pond not to boost numbers. As most of the crocs that are bred there are used for exporting meat and skin's. That is what the park is mainly about.


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## Isis (Jul 6, 2007)

Have you ever heard of codes of practice and standards that you have to adhere to before you even get approval to build anything like that let alone the appropriate licences.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Yea well isis not many ppl do read my post's but oh well such is life, oh jody the theme park is going to be perfectly safe due to ppl being able to look downat the crocs and not having them at ppls level and the fences are built down deep so they would have a hard time digging trying to get out and if by anychance a drunk falls in due to stupidity then its not the theme parks fault.


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 6, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> Look mate I dont want to make an enemy here but from what ive been told its been like that for quite a while.
> and the question that needs to be asked is not are they expanding?, but why havnt they already or why keep the animals when they do not have the room to keep such large animals at that time?
> you cannot honestly tell me that you would let someone get a herp if they didnt have the correct sized enclosure....
> 
> I know what i said was harsh, but keeping some of those crocs in those conditions is also harsh, they need space like any other large animal, including those tigers. Also are they making another pond to give them salties more room, or to boost the numbers?



The this is they can't let them go there are way too many croc's in the wild as it is and if they do let them go they eather have to kull them as for a few hundres wild ones get kulled per year.
What would you rather them being kept in a cage that has the basics where they get fed or to get let go and get killed just for the purpose that there is too many.

Jody


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

I did see that they did have a great deal of land, and I am happy that they are going to use it. Although they should only increase the numbers of crocs on the farm when it is completed, not because they are able to breed or because they have laid eggs.

Let me put this on the table....yes it is a farm, yes it could well be their source of income, and yes it might bring tourists to the area, but no these animals are not domesticated like sheep, pigs, choocks, cows etc. 

These animals are still wild, and deserve the respect enough to give them a reasonable amount of space that they are designed for, regardless of whether they are going to the belt factory or stanging as an attraction. and saying that its gonna be done is not good enough.

I would still like to point out the tigers aswell.....a 20m X 20m enclosure isnt room enough for an animal that would otherwise have kilometres of territory

Also Im sure if they wanted to they could halt all breeding by not incubating eggs, removing eggs from nests and not pairing males with females


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 6, 2007)

LOL it could solve the problem the gov is trying to fix. JOKES


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## Isis (Jul 6, 2007)

And OzRocks do you herps you keep as pets have the same amount of area that they would have in the wild????? Me thinks not.


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

Isis, I know where your coming from. Although my animals are not stacked on top of each other with no natural substrate, and if my herps wanna climb, they can climb, if my herps wanna swim they can swim, if my herps wanna dig they can dig, if my herps wanna get away from each other....they can. 

Also let me remind people once again, im am not just talking about the crocs. There were other anaimls that could of done with an upgrade


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Well Ozrocks Crocodylus park has been named the best wildlife sanctuary in darwin apart from the territory wildlife park. Tourists keep on coming and coming and coming so they can see the crocodiles upfront and personal to learn about their biology and ecology, to ponder the educational material in the Museum, to see the collection of other animals on exhibit, and to have their curiosities satisfied with any questions. There has not yet been a bad comment or any bad feedback at all on how the animals are kept. Dr Grahame Webb and the staff of Wildlife Management International Pty Ltd (WMI) have spent the last 25 years researching crocodiles. But yet you were there for one day and you don't know the complete story on how everything really runs. How about you go and get a job there then you can tell me what and how it's like to be someone who always has to watch thier backs. They are still in a wild life area they just get fed and looked after better then they would be doing in the wild.


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## Glider (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah, I'm getting a little arced up at the ignorance being shown here too. And dont get me started on wild vs. domestic thing. 

You think the tiger would have kilometres of territory? Where exactly? In the jungles of Asia where they are on the verge of extinction in the wild due to habitat loss and poaching? Or perhaps in the circus which is where I believe one of their original tigers came from as a captive bred circus animal from a closing circus?
Have you considered that perhaps the enclosure is adequate by tiger husbandry standards, and receives the best care and attention? 

Do you really think the NT Govenrment is going to let one of it's major tourist attractions display animals that are neglected or in poor husbandry conditions? The park has a large amount of government regulation and not only adheres to codes of practice and standards, but I wouldnt be surprised if it wrote the codes of practice to be used in other facilities around the world. 

When farming these animals for meat and hide, having truly overcrowded pens would result in high mortality rates and damage to the valuable skins. I think you'll find if you ask actual experts, years of research and trial & error have been put into figuring out the number of crocs kept in a pen of a certain size. It would be carefully calculated to work out it's capacity to balance available space with the welfare of the product. 

Dr Webb is one of the most world-reknowned crocodile experts, and the research conducted at the park is at the highest level on a global scale. In his decades of experience he has probably done more to help the scientific community and the public to understand crocodilians than anyone else. Just because he didnt wrestle some crocodiles on the Discovery channel or have an occer catchphrase, you might not have heard of him before. 

Did you speak with any of the management or research staff while you were there? Did you question anybody about the conditions while you were so outraged? 
In your expert opinion, with your years of experience in crocodile farming and zookeeping, did you honestly see ANY sick, injured, malnourished or otherwise unhealthy animals in your visit?


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Thank you Glider very well said...


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

like i said i didnt want to make an enemy but it seems your not to happy with my point of view.

All i can say is go out into a croc filled river...find a dominate croc and find out how much water is in its territory, and compare to whats at Crocodylus for some of those crocs. You do not need a degree or PHD to work out that keeping an animal of that size in some of those enclosures is cruel, inhumane and taking advantage of that animal. You can keep just about any herp healthy with heat, water and food, but no one knows the mental state of any of those animals. 

I dont care if Mr. Webb hasnt wrestled crocs on the discovery channel or didnt hav an aussie catchphrase, but the bloke who did was spot on with his views on croc farms and the respect that needs to be shown towards these animals.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 6, 2007)

Dude like glider said "Do you really think the NT Govenrment is going to let one of it's major tourist attractions display animals that are neglected or in poor husbandry conditions? If that were the case the place wouldve been shut down years ago.... But at least they are getting fed and looked after. In the wild a croc dont always eat it dont always survive due to others fighting and killing each other. So far at croco park there has been no casualties...


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## Glider (Jul 6, 2007)

Not everyone gets to be the dominant croc. 

Farming IS taking advantage of an animal. Are you vegetarian? Are you on a farm enthusiast forum spruiking the plight of chickens and pigs that died for your table? 

You're right, nobody knows the mental state of a croc, captive or not. But with a brain the size of a walnut, I think it's a pretty safe bet that as long as all it's basic needs are met, it really doesn't care. 


I commend your want to see these animals treated well, but I think perhaps it's misguided. Instead of coming back to an internet forum whinging about perceived harsh and unjust travesties you have witnessed, perhaps researching the subject fully before you go off making yourself look uneducated and self-righteous. Then having formed an educated opinion if you still felt it was wrong you would probably realise a more effective avenue to go about changing the world than sitting on a forum badmouthing an excellent establishment run by dedicated experts.


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

Well how much is the park worth to the N.T government?
Look I reckon the government has some dodgy regulations on the restrictions on the farming of some animals, and I believe this is to be one of them. I put my opinion out there because I believe its not how some of those animals should be kept, like it or not. But thats why i said agree or disagree at the bottom regardless, I wanted other peoples opinions.
Now I doubt very much we are gonna agree but thats where I stand and I dont blame you for stickin up for your mate. Ive got nothin against the people who work their, just some of the husbandry techniques. I like to see wild animals in a natural environment, or the closest thing to it in captivity (eg. hartly's crocodile adventures or most other zoos).

Sorry if i offended but thats my say and i stand by it 100%


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## PhilK (Jul 6, 2007)

Croc farms have no business in giving every croc a squillion acres of terriotry... where's the money in that? I recently got back from Darwin and I visited the park too. I thought it was great. Those 'tiny cramped' pens were breeding pens, and i assume allow the best access of male to female. Farms have no business and no profit in making the animals comfortable living in a mansion. The bare minimum, without violating laws, is what all farms go for. 

I'm currently doing a degree in vet and none of the animals there seemed displeased, all seemed relaxed and in a great body condition, so they aren't stressing or anything. There's always gonna be bleeding hearts who are upset at the conditions, and sure, it'd be great to see them in a little croc mansion, but that just isn't practical.


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## Frozenmouse (Jul 6, 2007)

The lions and tiger were saved from a circus that was closed by the rspca the big cats at crocodylus are very very old and are very well cared for with alot of personal attention ,,,,!
The turtles are injured ones picked up in darwin harbour some are in no need of much room. and the others are awaiting release.
The croc pens are more than adequate they are an acceptable standard and the same size as many of the crocodile farm pens around aus.


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## OzRocks (Jul 6, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Farms have no business and no profit in making the animals comfortable living in a mansion. The bare minimum, without violating laws, is what all farms go for.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> well thats what i get most annoyed about....is that money is the main priority, not the croc


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## Nagraj (Jul 6, 2007)

Stop apologising OzRocks. IMO you are correct in every regard.


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## Wild~Touch (Jul 6, 2007)

Well said Glider 

Crocodylus Park is all about conservation of crocs habitats and the long term future of the species - it was all beautifully and interestingly explained by a guest speaker from Crocodylus Park at the October meeting of HSQ. Until I had listened to this very intelligent educated lady speak with great passion about the care of the crocs and the species future I had no idea what Crocodylus Park was about
Methinks get educated before you vent your anger and frustation about something you saw -
and apparently you do not understand
Sandee


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## MoreliaMatt (Jul 7, 2007)

havent been recently, but when i was last at the croc park, i thought it was quite good!


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## waruikazi (Jul 7, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> I did see that they did have a great deal of land, and I am happy that they are going to use it. Although they should only increase the numbers of crocs on the farm when it is completed, not because they are able to breed or because they have laid eggs.
> 
> Let me put this on the table....yes it is a farm, yes it could well be their source of income, and yes it might bring tourists to the area, but no these animals are not domesticated like sheep, pigs, choocks, cows etc.
> 
> ...




Mate you really have no idea what you are talking about. As far as i'm aware ALL of the stock they breed live to ONE year until they are slaughtered for the meat and skin trade. they do not have a problem with over stocking.

Immature crocs are not territorial, you will find in the wild immature crocs sitting ontop of each other without a care in the world. The big pen with all those crocs is perfect for them. 

As for the breeder aimals they are happy enough to live, feed and reproduce in those pens. If you go to any other commercial croc farm that does the whole touristy thing you will find very similar conditions. They are one of the leading croc farms in Australia, you would really want to do some research before you start saying things like you have said so far.


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## Bakes (Jul 7, 2007)

Glider said:


> Yeah, I'm getting a little arced up at the ignorance being shown here too. And dont get me started on wild vs. domestic thing.
> 
> You think the tiger would have kilometres of territory? Where exactly? In the jungles of Asia where they are on the verge of extinction in the wild due to habitat loss and poaching? Or perhaps in the circus which is where I believe one of their original tigers came from as a captive bred circus animal from a closing circus?
> Have you considered that perhaps the enclosure is adequate by tiger husbandry standards, and receives the best care and attention?
> ...



Couldn't have said it better myself mate. Good post.

OzRocks, you said you wanted conditions to be like most other Zoo's. Which one mate? Taronga? The top zoo in Sydney? I went there with my kids before comming up to the NT 7 years ago and there was a snow leopard in an area the size of half my back yard! And two brown bears (a solitary animal in the wild) in a similar size area. What about all the different species of seals kept in the same pool? Or Adeliade zoo, went there once and saw a siberian tiger in a cage about half the size of my house. So how do they compare?


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## dansfish4tea (Jul 7, 2007)

I havnt been to the croc park but have read and seen it on the telly

for a breeding farm the conditions seem fine (look at any other grow out farms)
not near as healthy?

Get up those ignorent ppl Aussie Python


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## Jungletrans (Jul 7, 2007)

*Darwin crocs*

l want to see the big salties eating tourists in the middle of town . Will it be on UTUBE ?:shock:


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## markars (Jul 7, 2007)

l want to see the big salties eating tourists in the middle of town . Will it be on UTUBE ?:shock:
__________________
(end Quote)
Thats a corker of a post. lmao. thats bloody funny!
love your work!


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## Jaxxs (Jul 7, 2007)

I live in Darwin and have only been here for about 2 years before that I lived in NSW. I to was outraged at the conditions of the animals at crocodylus park when I went there for the first time.
I was so angry that I put in a formal complaint to the management. Nothing has changed at the park and the animals continue to suffer. IT is such a shame and I strongly recommend that people DO NOT visit the park and support this kind of animal cruelty


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## Nagraj (Jul 7, 2007)

You are not alone Jaxxs, experienced wildlife keepers from all over Australia have done the same thing to no avail.


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## PhilK (Jul 7, 2007)

*Eye roll*

Parks like that must get whinging hippies who have no clue lodging 'formal complaints' all the time. Animals aren't people, very few of them can tell whether theyre in a huge mansion or not. If they have all the things required to live and breed, they're happy as a pig in poo. For an animal like a croc, with a teeny-tiny brain, all it needs is water (provided), sun (provided) and food (provided) to live and breed successfully. And that's what they get. To think that a farm (whose aim is to raise and ultimately kill their stock) would put their charges in 5 star accomodation is naive. 

Farms make money, fact. There's no argument to that. The crocs there are perfectly happy for their entire lives (short as they may be). And that's what matters. Just because it looks 'bad' or 'yucky' to you, it doesn't mean the croc thinks so.


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## moose (Jul 7, 2007)

I dont want to get into a "***** Fight" over this, As i have never been to this park, and my comments dont directly relate to that Park in Particular.

I dont think Brain Size should even come into Caging any sought of animal EVER.

As mentioned, If the animal is being Provided with all of the Necessities Food, Water Sun and the like then i dont see a problem- If the animals are breeding in those conditions then it would be safe to say that they are happy, Simple as that, they arent forced to Breed and if they are , good luck to the Keeper Taking care of that side of things!

Moose


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## PhilK (Jul 7, 2007)

Brain size has plenty to do with it. If i wack a highly intelligent dolphin in a pool, but give it the necessities for life... it's gonna be stressed and probably get very sick. If i get a scorpion and put it in a box with sand and some food it'll live there happily forever

Brains of animals are, largely, what determines their interactions with their environments. So as far as capitivity goes, it does play a major factor.


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## waruikazi (Jul 7, 2007)

Jaxxs said:


> I live in Darwin and have only been here for about 2 years before that I lived in NSW. I to was outraged at the conditions of the animals at crocodylus park when I went there for the first time.
> I was so angry that I put in a formal complaint to the management. Nothing has changed at the park and the animals continue to suffer. IT is such a shame and I strongly recommend that people DO NOT visit the park and support this kind of animal cruelty



That is exactly what you should do if you do not like the conditions in this park. DO NOT GO THERE, DO NOT SUPPORT THEM and STOP WHINGING.


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## moose (Jul 7, 2007)

They are fair enough Comments PhilK,

But i think you might have missed the point i was trying to make, or i didnt explain myself Correctly.

If you Provide The animal With ALL the Necessities Food/Water/Land and sun (In this Case)
The animal Will Breed - If they didnt Why would croc Farms (or any Farm) for that matter Cram so many Animals into one pen.
Because it Works, The Croc Doesnt Care and i think maybe the animal Breeding Proves that it's Environment is suitable for that paticular animal.

I think in this case Brain size has nothing to do with it- It's all about Providing the Correct Conditions for that Particular animal.

Why do so many of us Breeders of Snakes Keep Hatchlings in Tub Racks?
Because all of the Animals needs are met- Simple if you ask me.


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## PhilK (Jul 7, 2007)

Yeah that makes sense.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 7, 2007)

Well then Oz rocks are you going to complain about the oyster farms where every oyster is nearly on top of each other are you going to complain about the trout farms or the barramundi farms and of cause inghams chicken were you get your chickens from??? Well or what about the croc frams up in townsville... These are the standard of breeding facilitys for these crocs. They get to approx 5yrs old then they are slaughtered for importing/exporting need's. Whether ppl are disgusted on how thing's are maybe have a hard and long close about how you keep your python's I can guarantee you dont keep them in a big huge enclosure but a small enclosure you think is perfect for them. And if there was ppl going and complaining there wouldve been something done about it.......But yet stuff all has been done. Don't like it? Dont go there as Gordo has said but if you have bad comments about a place you don't like then keep them to your self..!!!!


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 7, 2007)

Philk they get more then that I start work there next week and when I went in today The pens were in the middle of being cleaned out. All the monkey's pens were clean fresh fruit and veges given etc etc. And the amount of time's I have been there dry food floating in water??? Crap!!! Turtles not having enough dry land to use thats crap also... You see what you would rather see... And as someone had said in an earlier post. The tigers and lions were rescued from a circus, that was treating them worse smaller cages and werent gettin fed as much as they do now.... Oh and another thing OzRock's dont like darwin and what is has its simple realy DONT COME BACK!!!!


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 7, 2007)

For those who havent seen the place I would like to post a few pics... In these pic's I don't see any croc's being in pens that are way too small for them. The lion's are quite at home and comfortable.

And the pond's hmm I don't see any food floating around on top of the water nor do I see any croc's on top of each other ( well breeding season is around but I didnt take quickie pics lol) and I see plenty of land around the pond's for them to bask.....

So those who think the place is not looked after well these pics say another thing think b4 you speak up about a place you know nothing about. Have a great day!!!

Oh and sorry about quality of pic's the digi camera I had was an old crappy one and smudges all over the place on lense lol


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## Bakes (Jul 8, 2007)

Jaxxs said:


> I live in Darwin and have only been here for about 2 years before that I lived in NSW. I to was outraged at the conditions of the animals at crocodylus park when I went there for the first time.
> I was so angry that I put in a formal complaint to the management. Nothing has changed at the park and the animals continue to suffer. IT is such a shame and I strongly recommend that people DO NOT visit the park and support this kind of animal cruelty



So perhaps I should put in a formal complaint about the conditions you keep animals in at the RSPCA? I have been out there, I know what clean and well made kennels look like as I deal with them everyday, and what I've seen out at the RSPCA is disgusting. Now you may say "but we are non profit...blah blah blah. If your organisation has the money to advertise on TV then it has the money to upgrade its kennel complex. Sooooo Jaxxs....people who live in glass houses......


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## Miss B (Jul 8, 2007)

Looking at those photos, the conditions don't look too bad really.


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## wokka (Jul 8, 2007)

What about the color scheme . Does anyone want to tell us what colors crocidiles like?


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## steve6610 (Jul 8, 2007)

wokka said:


> What about the color scheme . Does anyone want to tell us what colors crocidiles like?



pmsl............

maybe pink for the girls and blue for the boys, or was it the other way around, ummmmmmm stuff it, lets paint it all purple............


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## GreenWillow (Jul 8, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> ...and also the chooks and pigs we have aswell.....i put the crocs in the same category as the livestock, and neither animal should have to be kept in those conditions!


I know naught about optimum conditions for crocodiles, but I do not consume any chicken or pork products because I disagree so ferociously with the way these animals are farmed. I only eat eggs which are certified organic and free-range. I even check the ingredients list on processed foods and reject any which contain chicken or pig products. And I would not touch feedlotted meat with a plantation grown or recycled timber barge pole.

OzRocks, I hope you walk the walk as well as talk the talk.


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## Elfir (Jul 8, 2007)

you cant paint with fruit


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## steve6610 (Jul 8, 2007)

Elfir said:


> you cant paint with fruit



hell thats right, we just voted that purple was a fruit, lets paint it with a blue trouser................


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## PhilK (Jul 8, 2007)

People disagreeing with pig/chicken farming without knowing squat about it is always funny. Aussie Python Lover, i agree with you. I recently went there and thought it was a great facility for its purpose.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 8, 2007)

Well I am the pic's say it all really now dont it..........


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## GreenWillow (Jul 8, 2007)

PhilK said:


> People disagreeing with pig/chicken farming without knowing squat about it is always funny.


I am wondering if you are referring to me, PhilK. If you are I beg to inform you that I have done time working on pig farms and chicken farms, as well as deer farms, duck farms, quail farms, beef cattle farms both "free-range" and feedlot, dairy farms, sheep farms and on a permaculture farm. I have been involved in the import and export of live animals, and participated in the formulation of regulations for the same. 

While I am not well informed enough to comment on crocodiles and crocodile farms (and observe that I did not) I feel I have enough experience, both observationally and intellectually, to make an informed comment on the ethics of man's need v's intensive agriculture systems. However I will thank you to note that I did not preach my opinion to anyone, I merely expressed a hope that if someone protests against chicken and pig farming he'd better not go eating the proceeds of such lest he be called a hypocrite.

Further more, when I had had enough of getting my hands dirty down on the farm I went to university to study philosophy, primarily ethics. If none of this qualifies me to make comment then perhaps I'd better just sit in the corner and look pretty, as that will be all I am good for if one were to disregard my education and experiences.


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 8, 2007)

gosh those crocs are in heaven lol hudge amount of room, clean, and they look very healthy. so what are you people talking about I've seen much worse, I've seen very tinny pens with loads of crocks all cramped up and only used for 2 things breeding and trade and thats outside of Rockhampton but these conditions is well you could say a mansion, the water pond is much bigger than some of the water holes and ponds up here in the NT where there are more crocs and big ones at that competeing with land, there is also croc's that get removed from there birth place because of human taking over and making more and more swimming holes. and if they bring in the new safari kulling for hunters then there is more wild crocs that are going to get kulled. Basicly those crocs from Crocadilus is in one of the biggest enclosed environments then anywhere else I've seen and they have a much better chance for survival here in the park then in the wildlife. Also we have the envassion of canetodes up here that is wiping out most of the young crocs and hatchies and soon in a few years if they don't find something to get rid of these todes there won't be any native wild animals up here ever again.

So I think it is safe that these people from crocadilas do know what there doing and do care for these animals even if they are making monie off meat and hide, but if you went to any restrant up here they sell croc meat as a delicusy and its not bad if you've tryed it. and I'm not saying I don't like crocs because I've had a taist of it, I love them and I do think its the best way to keep these crocs safe and from not becoming exstincted from the envassion of todes and trophy hunters. That enclosure is a great size and I am sure if the croc's want to get away from each other they can.

so what are you guy's talking about? in bad condition, floating food, and crampt?

cheers Jody


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## Isis (Jul 8, 2007)

You know what I think, we have all missed a very important part of OzRocks original post........it was a school trip. So perhaps OzRocks is coming from a very young and ignorant point of view.....You know how kids are these days!!!!!!

Young and gung ho on all things environmental....... 
Too young to know any better I think.


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## SperO (Jul 9, 2007)

Glider great post 

I'm from Darwin to and I've been to the croc farm and there is nothing wrong with it. I have to admit your the first person to ever complain that I know of.


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## -=Surflifesaver=- (Jul 10, 2007)

I reckon the concrete pens could be a little bit wider perhaps and personally i agree with Oz rocks in saying the living conditions of the crocodiles are cramped and you can not compare the living requirements of a crocodile to the living requirements of the animal shelters and livestock for these reptiles have been on the planet a lot longer then any chicken or dog and . And i for one they should be given our full respect. I Think all zoo's could take a page out of Steve Irwin's book, on looking after crocs for they are a animal of great danger and are the apex predator. Correct me if I'm wrong but is this zoo funded by the N.T Government?? and if this zoo does attract tourists and looks as good as most of you all say it is were is the lack of funds. i always thought Australia's zoo and sanctuary's would be excellent like Australia zoo and Dubbo zoo e.t.c e.t.c.:|:|

i mean no offense to anyone its just my 2 cents


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## Hickson (Jul 11, 2007)

Well, things got a bit carried away there, I decided to delete all the posts as they had nothing really to do with the topic at all. Very tempted to hand out infractions, but wasn't sure where to start. But if it starts again, I'll dish 'em out.

I will remind everyone that evryone on this site is entitled to an opinion - no matter how wrong it may be - and they are entitled to express that opinion (as long as it doesn't break any rules). Several opposing views have already been argued. And now I want to make a couple of points:

Crocodile Farms are just that - farms. That's how they make their money. Maximising the usage of space is good business sense. And they are regulated by local and State ot Territorial authorities.

If it wasn't for Crocodile Farms, the Saltwater Crocodile would probably be extinct in Australia.

Animals in captivity that have all their basic needs met usually will thrive in an environment much smaller than "the wild". This is particularly true of reptiles.

20m x 20m for a couple of tigers is a decent size enclosure. Yes, many zoos keep them in larger enclosures, but I've seen many zoos keep them in smaller cages.

Concrete is an excellent choice of building material substrate from an hygenic point of view - it is quickly and easily hosed down and cleaned, and is easily disinfected. In fact, I would suggest that concrete sitting in the Darwin sun would get so hot that most bacteria would be unable to survive on the surface.

Sea Turtles - like Hawksbills - only come a shore to lay eggs. The ones in the concrete pit (that I assume was filled with water) wouldn't have come out onto the little concrete "land". In fact if the land was grass and sand and the size of a football field, the Hawksbill would probably still not have crawled onto it unless she was ready to lay.



Hix

Note: I have never been to Crocodylus Park.


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## Frozenmouse (Jul 11, 2007)

if i have time i will post some pics this week end of the park it is really not anywhere near as bad as what it has been played out to be i am an animal lover and animals suffering always make me angry . hate to de-sensationalise this thread but none of the animals are suffering at the park sorry find someone else to pick on..that deserves it and i will gladly jump in and help..


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 11, 2007)

Just so ppl know that the last thread I had made was the post with the pic's. My ex had hacked into my computer and found passwords all over the place. Don't ask how he did it but he did. I reported it already to hix. So everyone know's the person who gobbed off in my name wasn't me but my ex causing trouble. He had done it in 5 other forum'sthat im a member too, in my yahoo messenger and other thing's I have. Sorry if this caused any drama.
Simone


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## Isis (Jul 11, 2007)

Hmm freedom of speech is alive and well I see.

Go the croc farms doing what they need to do in the most appropriate way.

Crocs Rule


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## Gibsonic (Jul 17, 2007)

*Well done OZROCKS!!*

Hi all,

let me start by congratulating ozrocks on stepping forward and congratulating him/her... I suggest "Isis" you go back and read the rules in which u accepepted to abide by. 

"Rule number 2: Be tolerant of all other users. Remember, we have members of all ages and levels of experience and enthusiasm, of different nationalities, religions and cultures. Rude or racist remarks and hurtfully sarcastic comments will be deleted and you will be penalised. Bear in mind that a sarcastic comment that an adult would laugh at may be hurtful to a young member.

Even if he _was_ on a school trip, doesn't our future adults have a say in today's world, if so what does our future hold in the means of standing up for animals rights?!!

With that aside, I believe Ozrocks has put forward a question that really does need to be asked?
Are we treating crocodiles humanely by keeping them locked in a cage 6mX6m??
* It does not matter if this is one of the best facilitys/conditons we have!!*


​


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## snakelover1 (Jul 18, 2007)

*well said!*

well siad GIBSONIC! 
I a talanted pro on all animans completely agree with your pleasurable comment!
that croc farm in darwin is in a shocking state and needs a extreame makeover!

yours faithfully....snakelover1


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jul 18, 2007)

this thread needs to end cause its going to end in ppl verbally bashing each other and for ppl who dont know anything about crocodylus park and is not from here i guess keeping thier rude comments to themselves saves ppl yappin at each other......


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