# Pure Bred Pythons



## kittycat17 (May 26, 2017)

So is anyone else disgusted by the prices pure bred snakes are selling for?? 
Seeing pure darwins for $80
Coastals for $75 
How can you sell animals for this price and guarantee there going to be fed well and be checked by a vet if it needs it.... 

I can't even move caramel coastals onto new homes  


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## Yellowtail (May 26, 2017)

Sorry Kittycat I don't agree. I only breed pure lines, my darwin line can be traced back to original wild caught animals bred by Simon Stone with Blondie and my Julatten Jungle line is pure from animals originally bred by Tremain Anderson. I have no trouble selling albino darwin and Julatten hatchlings for $500 with special ones higher. My darwin hets are from $150 because I want to clear the last few to close that rack but most were sold for $200, I won't sell anything for less than that and only to buyers that have a proper setup.
My observation is that it is jags and cross breeds that are difficult to sell, even mixed GTP's are cheap and I don't touch any of those. I used to breed black cockatoos and you would not dream of mating a redtail with a yellowtail and you would not mate a blue and gold macaw with a crimson, the offspring would be worthless. There is no point breeding animals that can only be sold for $80 as you can't afford to look after them properly and is the buyer of an $80 snake going to spend the hundreds of dollars required for a proper enclosure and quality food. Most people are happy to keep dogs as pets and not breed them. It's fine to keep and love "ordinary" coastals, jungles etc as pets but why breed them?


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## kittycat17 (May 26, 2017)

You say you don't agree but you have basically stated my point 
Why would we sell animals for $80. 

My animals are priced at $150-$200 because that is what I believe they are worth and I've sold them at that price easily in previous seasons 

But I saw people buying caramel coastals at the central coast expo for $80 [emoji35] (someone had them advertised for that price) 

And the seller next to me was easily selling his bredli x coastals but pure coastals won't move. 

I didn't realise the market had dropped this badly as I gave my females a season off in the 15/16 season. And I'll only be pairing for tristripes this season. 


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 26, 2017)

I hear what you are saying Kitty but the animals worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it not what the seller thinks its worth.
The market is over supplied and if people are not spending it makes it difficult.

Thing is everyone thinks they are going to make a mint as a breeder so everyone wants to have a go. (Without putting a great deal of thought into what it is they are producing). Hence the question on another thread earlier today, (what snake should I put with my jungle.....remember?). Its behavior like this that is turning the hobby a bit sour at the moment.


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## kittycat17 (May 26, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I hear what you are saying Kitty but the animals worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it not what the seller thinks its worth.
> The market is over supplied and if people are not spending it makes it difficult.
> 
> Thing is everyone thinks they are going to make a mint as a breeder so everyone wants to have a go. (Without putting a great deal of thought into what it is they are producing). Hence the question on another thread earlier today, (what snake should I put with my jungle.....remember?). Its behavior like this that is turning the hobby a bit sour at the moment.



Bahaha yes I do remember that particular question  

I understand only breeding for the market. 
But my babies will stay here I'm not dropping my prices. 
I just am so frustrated that some breeders don't care about cost they just want to move animals  


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## Yellowtail (May 26, 2017)

The problem is too many people are breeding whatever they have without serious thought to what is marketable and the market is oversupplied with "ordinary" snakes. You have to have a plan and only breed top quality distinctive animals and you will sell them for a good price. There are albino darwins advertised for $300 everywhere but I had no trouble selling 3 clutches for $500 - $700.


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## Wally (May 26, 2017)

The price related breeding bubble burst four or five years ago. And the reptile owning hype has died down significantly since then.

I don't mind to be honest. A bit like the days when you swapped out with mates for what you wanted.


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## Shaggz (May 27, 2017)

I think assuming that people that only pay $80 for a snake will not look after it properly or seek vet care is rather snobbish. I do believe though that there is a serious over breeding issue in the Hobby, Hopefully the low prices drive out the people that are only in it for the money and breed all these mongrel cross breed bitsa's


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## pinefamily (May 27, 2017)

A similar thing happened with bearded dragons, every man and his dog was breeding them. If anyone's noticed, it seems the same thing is happening with ackies now.


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## kittycat17 (May 27, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> A similar thing happened with bearded dragons, every man and his dog was breeding them. If anyone's noticed, it seems the same thing is happening with ackies now.



Beardies where going for as low as $20 at the Illawarra expo towards closing time 


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## pinefamily (May 27, 2017)

Wow.


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## mikegerighty (May 27, 2017)

Seems like an Aussie issue prices are still high in states now Lacey act is lifted sky is limit on burns and retics 

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## mikegerighty (May 27, 2017)

I recently purchased two coastal tigers for 300 and I thought that was a bargain

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## mikegerighty (May 27, 2017)

Never seen any carpets for 80 dollars maybe a stray here and there but normally much higher

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## Waterrat (May 27, 2017)

Too many people take breeding as some kind of pinnacle in the hobby, so they can call themselves "breeders" - what's wrong with just keeping reptiles?
The market is saturated and people want everything for a song. I stopped breeding Aussie native GTPs because there is too many of them on the market and they are hard to sell. So what? I just enjoy keeping them.


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## kittycat17 (May 27, 2017)

Waterrat said:


> Too many people take breeding as some kind of pinnacle in the hobby, so they can call themselves "breeders" - what's wrong with just keeping reptiles?
> The market is saturated and people want everything for a song. I stopped breeding Aussie native GTPs because there is too many of them on the market and they are hard to sell. So what? I just enjoy keeping them.



I don't think I saw any gtp hatchlings at expos this season.... 


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## Gem (May 27, 2017)

Waterrat said:


> Too many people take breeding as some kind of pinnacle in the hobby, so they can call themselves "breeders" - what's wrong with just keeping reptiles?
> The market is saturated and people want everything for a song. I stopped breeding Aussie native GTPs because there is too many of them on the market and they are hard to sell. So what? I just enjoy keeping them.



Totally agree!
People just breed for the sake of breeding, not just in reptiles either.
Some cats and dogs you see advertised for sale and the so called breeder can't even spell the breed name correctly.
Very sad when people can't just enjoy having beautiful animals.


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## GBWhite (May 27, 2017)

Wally said:


> The price related breeding bubble burst four or five years ago. And the reptile owning hype has died down significantly since then.
> 
> I don't mind to be honest. A bit like the days when you swapped out with mates for what you wanted.



Totally agree Wally. I often think back to younger days when I used to swap stuff interstate with blokes down south like Mike Swan and Steve Wilson and up north with Kerri Head. All of it was wild caught in those days and we'd just exchange stuff that none of us could get locally. We'd often send them off by rail, all bagged up and in cardboard boxes. Was always a great surprise to open and find things like Southern Blotched Blue Tongues, Painted Dragons, Aprasia, Suta's, Lowland Copperheads and nice Vic Tigers. Then I'd mostly swap (but sometimes sell) stuff like these with mates from around the Sydney area.

Remember sending a nice Diamond to Kerri Head many many years ago when he was in Airlie Beach. First time I sent a critter off by plane. A couple of days later he rings and tells me that he just put a couple of Northern Adders on a plane for me and that they should be in Sydney the next morning. I sat around all day waiting for the courier to deliver them and around 5:00pm I get a knock on the door and it's the courier standing there with a plastic lunch box all taped up with vent holes and "Handle with Care - Live Specimens" written all over it. The guy said he'd had the box on the seat next to him all day and had been dying to find out what was in it. I told him Death Adders and he didn't believe me so I took it off him, opened it and then a bag to reveal two beautiful adults. Poor bloke went pale and week at the knees, spat the dummy, then walked off muttering something about having a word to the people back at the airport...hahaha.

Except for the odd RRB's I haven't bread anything for years and I only do them when I've got friends who have friends that want to upgrade their license to keep vens. I'd rather just give them away if I'm assured they'll be looked after.

All the best,

George.


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## kittycat17 (May 27, 2017)

GBWhite said:


> Totally agree Wally. I often think back to younger days when I used to swap stuff interstate with blokes down south like Mike Swan and Steve Wilson and up north with Kerri Head. All of it was wild caught in those days and we'd just exchange stuff that none of us could get locally. We'd often send them off by rail, all bagged up and in cardboard boxes. Was always a great surprise to open and find things like Southern Blotched Blue Tongues, Painted Dragons, Aprasia, Suta's, Lowland Copperheads and nice Vic Tigers. Then I'd mostly swap (but sometimes sell) stuff like these with mates from around the Sydney area.
> 
> Remember sending a nice Diamond to Kerri Head many many years ago when he was in Airlie Beach. First time I sent a critter off by plane. A couple of days later he rings and tells me that he just put a couple of Northern Adders on a plane for me and that they should be in Sydney the next morning. I sat around all day waiting for the courier to deliver them and around 5:00pm I get a knock on the door and it's the courier standing there with a plastic lunch box all taped up with vent holes and "Handle with Care - Live Specimens" written all over it. The guy said he'd had the box on the seat next to him all day and had been dying to find out what was in it. I told him Death Adders and he didn't believe me so I took it off him, opened it and then a bag to reveal two beautiful adults. Poor bloke went pale and week at the knees, spat the dummy, then walked off muttering something about having a word to the people back at the airport...hahaha.
> 
> ...



That is amazing!!! I wish it was like that!! 


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## Yellowtail (May 27, 2017)

I too remember the "good old days", I started catching snakes when I was 9 years of age much to the horror of my parents. I had a friend in Nth Qld that used to regularly send me wooden crates of wild caught snakes, I used to pick them up at the airport and open all the bags with much excitement. That was the 1960's and 70's, now I have the reality that my power bill is $3,000 a quarter and it costs me thousands a year to feed my collection, all the adults are in large enclosures which cost a lot to set up and require me to live in a very large home. The only way I can afford my hobby is to breed and sell some selected lines each season to pay the bills. This means often selling some exceptional animals I would rather keep and I certainly don't make a profit.


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## Nero Egernia (May 27, 2017)

Ah yes. The good old days. Where people kept reptiles simply because they were fascinating and beautiful. Not as money making commodities, not as status symbols, nor as their ticket for a chance to play God.


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## pinefamily (May 27, 2017)

We've cut down on the number of reptiles we own, but have a collection of different species that interest us, not what we might be able to make money from. Thought about having a go at breeding a year or so ago, mainly for the benefit of our nieces and nephews, but chose not to because of the glut in the market.


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## mrkos (May 28, 2017)

I started keeping reptiles in 2005 and the changes I have seen in the hobby have astounded me although I wasn't part of the old crew I have enjoyed the downturn in the hobby the last few years as all the ring in keepers that jumped on the bandwagon to make a quick buck have either stopped breeding or lost interest in their collection and long since moved them on. Sadly with all the cross breeding happening nowadays I am sure there would be some very poorly cared for animals living out their existence in collections where their market value makes them worthless to their keeper.


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## Waterrat (May 28, 2017)

The hype is over. Many pet keepers are realising that snakes are not the best pets, the "business breeders" are realising that there is no money to be made and the shallow-minded hobbyists are loosing interest. What goes up, must come down.
Some mentioned the "good old days" when we used to swap and catch herps, we also developed a passion for knowledge on what reptiles really are, we were keen to understand their natural history and we tried to recreate their respective microhabitats in our enclosures. But, live goes on, no point in reminiscing, there are many good herpers amongst us and they are the ones who will keep the hobby alive.

I like Paul Theroux's words:
Anyone who knows one bird from another, one wild flower or tree from another, is capable of intensifying this feeling of discovery. A landscape looks
different when you know the names of things – and conversely can look exceedingly inhospitable and alien when it seems nameless. “


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## reen08 (May 30, 2017)

Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.


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## kittycat17 (May 30, 2017)

@reen08 
I don't know if that was directed at me or not?? 
But I defintely don't breed for money hahaa, as I've said my hatchies won't be going anywhere until I find suitable homes for them  
And my guys get regular vet checks to.... think my vet may be sick of me honestly haha with over 30 snakes at the moment and a 45 min trip to the vet, the money for the consult never has bothered me. 


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## Waterrat (May 30, 2017)

reen08, I don't a single post from you in this thread. Where are you coming from?


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## GBWhite (May 30, 2017)

reen08 said:


> Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.



WTF is this about???


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## Snapped (May 30, 2017)

GBWhite said:


> WTF is this about???



Probably in reply to an earlier comment by Pauls Pythons I think, which is below.




> I hear what you are saying Kitty but the animals worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it not what the seller thinks its worth.
> The market is over supplied and if people are not spending it makes it difficult.
> 
> Thing is everyone thinks they are going to make a mint as a breeder so everyone wants to have a go. (Without putting a great deal of thought into what it is they are producing). *Hence the question on another thread earlier today, *(*what snake should I put with my jungle....remember?). It's behavior like this that is turning the hobby a bit sour at the moment. *



Reen asked in another thread about what they should put their jungle with.


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## Nero Egernia (May 30, 2017)

I think reen08's comment may have relations to the thread Pregnant Snake. I hope this clears things up. If my assumption is incorrect, then disregard this and my apologies.

EDIT: Oops, Snapped got in before me.


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## Wally (May 30, 2017)

Well.... 

Back on track!

I personally have no problem paying for proof of provenance. If it's something I'm chasing and you can give me background on lineage then no probs.

But it's something that fewer people have the ability to do these days.

Disappointed you're not selling native greens anymore Michael. It was always a long term goal to own one of your critters.


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## kittycat17 (May 30, 2017)

Wally said:


> Well....
> 
> Back on track!
> 
> ...



Yes I love the lineage!! Nick Mutton especially does amazingly well written lineage charts!!
My hatchlings this season I can go back 3 gens on mums side and only the 2 on dads side as the granddads (a Coffs Harbour coastal) breeder is no longer in the hobby. 


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## dragonlover1 (May 30, 2017)

lineage charts like a dogs pedigree papers are a great idea but I think it will be a while before this happens


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## kittycat17 (May 30, 2017)

dragonlover1 said:


> lineage charts like a dogs pedigree papers are a great idea but I think it will be a while before this happens



100% because it requires effort and actually knowing the lineage!! 

Might have to go to the effort to do that for this clutch


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## Yellowtail (May 30, 2017)

Problem with lineage records is unlike dogs or horses a lot of snake breeders put multiple males over females to guarantee a result. Anyone who bought a snake from Simon Stone/Southern Cross will be aware he only provided information on the Dam. Personally I know the sire of my albinos because I am selectively breeding particular pairs but this also leads to missed seasons with unproven sires.


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## kittycat17 (May 30, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> Problem with lineage records is unlike dogs or horses a lot of snake breeders put multiple males over females to guarantee a result. Anyone who bought a snake from Simon Stone/Southern Cross will be aware he only provided information on the Dam. Personally I know the sire of my albinos because I am selectively breeding particular pairs but this also leads to missed seasons with unproven sires.



That is a really fair point, something I didn't think about either!!! 


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## Waterrat (May 31, 2017)

It's particularly difficult with GTPs because of illegal imports. Owners are reluctant to give true information and without such, the pedigree is worthless. It took a lot of effort to trace my mite phase family tree, but at least on one side I managed to get fair a way back. It's now my job to keep it going.


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

I love it @Waterrat, how did you do it??? On word? 


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## Waterrat (May 31, 2017)

In photoshop.


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## Nero Egernia (May 31, 2017)

I told myself I wouldn't post on this, as I may well devolve into an incomprehensible ranting mess, but I feel it had to be voiced. While I see the merit in documented lineages (I too like to know the ancestry of the reptiles I keep), I have misgivings. The world of pedigrees hardly ever benefits the animal. You only have to look at dogs and cats for example. Some people become near fanatical, obsessed with keeping bloodlines pure, even at the cost of the animal's health, breeding for more extreme features with each generation. They line-breed their chosen animals literally to death. Some breeds can't even reproduce without the aid of a vet. Many people appear to only care about winning shows, making money, or just like to play God simply because they can. It's already happening in reptiles as it is. In reptiles there's no breeds. There's no cross-breeds, mixed-breeds, or mongrels. They're species, sub-species, or hybrids, if you will. I can see the good intentions of documented lineages for our captive reptiles, but knowing human nature, someone's going to take it too far. Our native reptiles are not domesticated animals, they're not man made. They don't need "improving". Why don't we keep it that way?


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I told myself I wouldn't post on this, as I may well devolve into an incomprehensible ranting mess, but I feel it had to be voiced. While I see the merit in documented lineages (I too like to know the ancestry of the reptiles I keep), I have misgivings. The world of pedigrees hardly ever benefits the animal. You only have to look at dogs and cats for example. Some people become near fanatical, obsessed with keeping bloodlines pure, even at the cost of the animal's health, breeding for more extreme features with each generation. They line-breed their chosen animals literally to death. Some breeds can't even reproduce without the aid of a vet. Many people appear to only care about winning shows, making money, or just like to play God simply because they can. It's already happening in reptiles as it is. In reptiles there's no breeds. There's no cross-breeds, mixed-breeds, or mongrels. They're species, sub-species, or hybrids, if you will. I can see the good intentions of documented lineages for our captive reptiles, but knowing human nature, someone's going to take it too far. Our native reptiles are not domesticated animals, they're not man made. They don't need "improving". Why don't we keep it that way?



Wasn't an incomprehensible ranting mess at all and I did think of this myself 

True line breeding in cats and dogs has proved to be disastrous for many breeds (not only causing heart defects, breathing issues etc) but if an animal can't give birth on its own eg a bulldog or staffy why would you keep pushing them down that line! So on that I totally agree with you 

I think with the recent obsession of mixing species where morphs are involved that lineages would be good for those still involved in pure and locality animals eg Palmerston jungles, Tanami Womas etc to prove the background of the animal.





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## pythoninfinite (May 31, 2017)

reen08 said:


> Just because I was thinking of breeding my jungle does Not mean I am going to sell or give any away. You're just jumping to conclusions. I was thinking about the coloring that would come out from breeding with a different color. Did not mean I'm actually going to breed. Sorry I forgot. You're the thought police too. As for the hobby. *Who are you to say who can breed and who can't. In my opinion there should be only a handful of people in each state that are allowed to breed. * It seems like people like you are in it for the money. Sure, you may take great care in looking after your animals but why do you breed? MONEY *I'll also have you know my jungles go to the vet every 6 months for a full check up. Do you do this? I doubt it. They also live in enclosures better than my house and eat very well. Oh and guess what. That means they are treated like royalty and I put myself last.*



Interesting that this member gets indignant about possible constraints on who can breed, then, in the same sentence, suggests that in his/her opinion, it should be limited to 'only a handful of people" ! Getting your otherwise healthy snakes "vet checked" every six months is a total waste of time, and especially money. Without symptoms, the vet can do nothing other than say your snakes are fine, then take your money and send you home. Does the vet take blood pressure, do a full blood workup, examine stools and take cloacal and buccal swabs every time you take it there? No, he just gives it a visual once-over and says it's fine. Any reasonably experienced herp keeper can do that.

Don't put yourself too far last matey, your snakes need you to be in good health. Can't comment on the quality of your house compared to your enclosures, but I'd love to have a look !


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## reen08 (May 31, 2017)

My apologies if I sounded aggressive or if I offended anyone. That certainly was not my intention. What I was trying to say/ask is what particular colors would come out if you mated a jungle with a different type. It could be any other snake for that matter ie, coastals, children't, woma etc I asked the question not to 'breed' but I like to do fantasy drawing and would have liked to integrate some into them. 

Re breeding. Personally I'm not interested in that side of things, I just like to enjoy them and treat them as members of my family. On the other hand I know there are irresponsible breeders out there that are just in it for the money. Which is a shame. Does anyone think it would be possible to have a handful of breeders specializing in a different species in each state? That way you would be definate in knowing the lineage. A lot of people say "Yeah, it's a pure bred" when it's not.

Also why is everyone against jungle carpets? Sure they may get neurological problems but doesn't every species including humans have one thing or another. I've previously had a few j carpets which had no neurological problems that just passed on from old age. Don't get me wrong. If you have young jg that show neuro problems you definately wouldn't breed from that. Otherwise, they are a beautiful snake. No different to any other. BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

@reen08

Jungles don't have neurological issues.... 
The jaguar morph does cause neurological issues in the snakes that have the morph though 


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## reen08 (May 31, 2017)

pythoninfinite. I was saying maybe have a handful of breeders in each state so you definately know the lineage and that the snakes are well looked after to weed out those that are irresponsible and could not care less about the health and well being of the animal. A bit like dog breeders. To make sure there's no inbreeding, health issues etc.


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## reen08 (May 31, 2017)

kittycat17. Does my post make sense this time or is still mish mash?


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

reen08 said:


> kittycat17. Does my post make sense this time or is still mish mash?



A lil bit mish mash  
A few things you've said have been spoken about and moved passed to  
Oshkii made good points about line breeding etc 


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## reen08 (May 31, 2017)

Sorry about that. Took a tumble. Head must still be rattling


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## Waterrat (May 31, 2017)

reen8, there are pure line breeders in every state but you have to find them, gather references about them and their animals and ultimately, you have to trust them. Unlike in the cats and dogs world, the reptile hobby hasn't got any register or overseeing body that would certify pure line breeders as such. How can a breeder prove his/her lines are pure? Only by accurate and truthful records and pedigrees. When I got my greens DNA profiled (13 years ago) and started issuing certificates with each snake I passed on, people laughed at me, the more arrogant pricks said it's all marketing strategy, etc.. Guess what - my Aussie native GTPs can be imported into NSW today because of my initial efforts. The parody is - I am not breeding or selling any now.


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

Waterrat said:


> reen8, there are pure line breeders in every state but you have to find them, gather references about them and their animals and ultimately, you have to trust them. Unlike in the cats and dogs world, the reptile hobby hasn't got any register or overseeing body that would certify pure line breeders as such. How can a breeder prove his/her lines are pure? Only by accurate and truthful records and pedigrees. When I got my greens DNA profiled (13 years ago) and started issuing certificates with each snake I passed on, people laughed at me, the more arrogant pricks said it's all marketing strategy, etc.. Guess what - my Aussie native GTPs can be imported into NSW today because of my initial efforts. The parody is - I am not breeding or selling any now.



Lol to all the idiots out there and that sucks for us [emoji27][emoji27][emoji27][emoji27]


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 31, 2017)

Well didn't that one get well off track. Maybe snapped is correct and it was my post that sent it off the rails.
I personally see nothing wrong with my comment....am I missing something?


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## Snapped (May 31, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Well didn't that one get well off track. Maybe snapped is correct and it was my post that sent it off the rails.
> I personally see nothing wrong with my comment....am I missing something?



Nah, your post didn't, I was just replying to another poster that reen08 probably posted in reply to one of your comments. No one's fault, some topics do go off the rails, everyone has different opinions, and some rub people up the wrong way, so there's bound to be some noses out of joint from time to time.


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

Snapped said:


> Nah, your post didn't, I was just replying to another poster that reen08 probably posted in reply to one of your comments. No one's fault, some topics do go off the rails, everyone has different opinions, and some rub people up the wrong way, so there's bound to be some noses out of joint from time to time.



Yea, I still feel like we got a decent convo out of this to haha


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## pythoninfinite (May 31, 2017)

Way too late for a breeders register - the damage has already been done, the horse has bolted etc, etc...

Jamie


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## pinefamily (May 31, 2017)

This has to be one of the best threads for a long time. Well made points that have been made and discussed further. And all without crap.


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## kittycat17 (May 31, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> This has to be one of the best threads for a long time. Well made points that have been made and discussed further. And all without crap.



Yay!!! Do I get a gold star!!!!


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## dragonlover1 (May 31, 2017)

kittycat17 said:


> Yay!!! Do I get a gold star!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes and you get a unicorn stamp as well


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## kittycat17 (Jun 1, 2017)

dragonlover1 said:


> yes and you get a unicorn stamp as well



OMG A UNICORN STAMP [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji12][emoji12]


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## pinefamily (Jun 1, 2017)

For some reason, a blue elephant stamp was top of the heap when I was at school.


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## Sheldoncooper (Jun 1, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> For some reason, a blue elephant stamp was top of the heap when I was at school.


Scratch and sniff stickers over hear 

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