# Urgent!!!! Very sick childrens python :'(



## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

I have a 4 yr old male childrens python. I have had him for 3.5years we have never had any health issues. he is always placid. he eats 1 a fortnight, if i offer more he won't take it. 
Today i went to get get him out of his tank as he spends a lot of time under his rock it is normal for me not to see him for 5-7 days. 
when i lifted his rock he looked dead  i got him out, he was alive but very sick.
Symptoms: VERY dry skin. a hole the size of half a pea about 3/4 way down his body. bleeding mouth, dried up. very slow. his eyes are clear.
I took him straight to the vet who hasn't delt with many snakes, he said it was an infection and gave him a shot of antibiotics told be to try beta dine on his hole. but the vet said not to get my hopes up as it doesn't look good :'(
I also fed im a live rat a 2 weeks ago which he killed but didn't eat (i didn't see him kill it) but the vet suggested maybe the rat put up some fight and did some damage.*
Can I please ask anyone if they have any ideas or suggestions on what is wrong and what i can do to help him please.*


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## davobmx (Feb 14, 2012)

Do not live feed


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

dont know if this is a joke but anyway..

the reason your childrens is half dead is coz you fed him a live rat.. ONLY FEED YOUR SNAKE DEAD DEFROSTED AND THAWED RATS/MICE!!!!

your snakes been attacked by the rat and thats why its mouth is bleeding and theres a hole in him..

find a proper reptile speicalist vet in your area and theyll take care of it..

isnt it illegal to feed live rats in aus


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## notechistiger (Feb 14, 2012)

You feed him one what once a fortnight? He's a four year old snake, they don't need to eat very much.


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## Renenet (Feb 14, 2012)

First, find a good herp vet. There are some listed under the Wiki tab on this site. If you tell us roughly where you are, someone might be able to suggest someone.

Second, it's extremely dangerous to feed your snake live prey. (It goes without saying it's dangerous for the rat.) As the vet said, rats can fight back. Never leave a live rat unsupervised with a snake. Feeding live is also illegal unless the snake will not take anything else. It's a last resort, not a common practice.


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

should be feeding once very 10 days


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## PythonLegs (Feb 14, 2012)

Gimme a T!
Gimme a R!
Gimme a O! 
Gimme a coffee, too lazy to finish.


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## notechistiger (Feb 14, 2012)

> should be feeding once very 10 days



An adult snake can and should be fed less often then 10 days.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't usually feed him live rats. He hadn't eaten for a month i was concerned as he would not take anything else. usually he will feed once a fortnight on a dead rat.


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## hrafna (Feb 14, 2012)

unfortunately it seems the only thing to do is blunt force trauma, to the rat. to the snake to put it out of misery (only after getting a reptile specialist vet to look at it) and to yourself for not bothering to check on the animal after giving it a live rat. if i had to give a live rat to one of my snakes, i would watch it strike and wrap before leaving it to it's own pace, i would then do regular check ups to make sure everything is going ok.


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

1 month without food is easy for them... you couldve waited a bit longer

find a reptile spcialist vet to bring your snake to ASAP


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

hrafna said:


> unfortunately it seems the only thing to do is blunt force trauma, to the rat. to the snake to put it out of misery (only after getting a reptile specialist vet to look at it) and to yourself for not bothering to check on the animal after giving it a live rat. if i had to give a live rat to one of my snakes, i would watch it strike and wrap before leaving it to it's own pace, i would then do regular check ups to make sure everything is going ok.



I have taken it straight to vet, there is no specialist around here. I did check him after he got the rat. for a couple of day he seemed fine. I am not going to put it down as the vet said there is a chance he will pull through. I would actually like help not to be criticised. whats done is now done all i want is for him to get better. I did everything i have been told from breeders he has had live rats before when i have had trouble with him eating People make mistakes and learn, but right now i am after help!!!



fabregasreptiles said:


> 1 month without food is easy for them... you couldve waited a bit longer
> 
> find a reptile spcialist vet to bring your snake to ASAP



I was told different, (just wishing i knew this before) but thank you. there are no specialist around here i have searched.


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

what state and whereabouts are you??

also give him extra heat also at night till he heals...


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## PythonLegs (Feb 14, 2012)

where are you?


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

fabregasreptiles said:


> what state and whereabouts are you??



In Victoria Echuca. I called vets and pet shops asking. they all suggested the vet i saw.


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## PythonLegs (Feb 14, 2012)

fabregasreptiles said:


> what state and whereabouts are you??


Jinx, you owe me a coke. Woo!


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

PythonLegs said:


> where are you?



In Victoria Echuca. I called vets and pet shops asking. they all suggested the vet i saw.


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

im sure some people here in vic will help you..

RUTHERGLEN VETERINARY CLINIC in victoria

could try giving them a call otherwise call a reptile specialist vet in any state and ask their advice, etc.

call david vella in nsw vet and ask his advice


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

fabregasreptiles said:


> im sure some people here in vic will help you..
> 
> RUTHERGLEN VETERINARY CLINIC in victoria
> 
> could try giving them a call otherwise call a reptile specialist vet in any state and ask their advice, etc.



Thank you I will call first thing in the morning if he makes it through the night. :'(


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

make sure you give him heating for the night at like 30 degrees


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

fabregasreptiles said:


> make sure you give him heating for the night at like 30 degrees



He has his heat mat on which he always has I'm not sure of temp as i have never been told to measure it. but it is very warm and he is under his house on top of the mat and my house is quite warm. should i do any more for him?


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## Renenet (Feb 14, 2012)

Jacinta,

You'll find that there's always a strong reaction against live feeding becuase it is so risky. But let's move past that. What's important is your sick snake. 

Snakes are tough little blighters so good to hear you're not giving up on him yet. What did your vet say about any future antibiotic shots? Do you know what kind of antibiotic he used? The betadine is a good idea. Did the vet say to use it straight or dilute it?

There are a few people on here who have extensive experience with sick and injured reptiles and should be able to offer advice. In the meantime, what are your snake's enclosure temperatures like?

EDIT: Someone beat me to the temperature question.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

Renenet said:


> Jacinta,
> 
> You'll find that there's always a strong reaction against live feeding becuase it is so risky. But let's move past that. What's important is your sick snake.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much, all i wanted is some help as i am so worried about him. I realise now i have done the wrong thing, and I'm sorry if i offended anybody, but thank you so much for getting past that. 

The vet said to not get my hopes up, but if all is ok to five him a call in a week to take the snake back in. the antibiotic shot was a long lasting shot (don't know a name). vet said it would last about 2 weeks. he also said straight betadine on the hole and a bit on his tale as the tale is very dry.
I now have him in a 48cm glass enclosure so i can keep an eye on him. he has the heat mat directly under the glass bottom at one end. i have kitty litter on the floor of hi enclosure (what i have always been told to use) 
feel like such an idiot now, i just trusted everything the breeder told me years ago  i should have done more research. or found this site tears ago.


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 14, 2012)

im gonna be honest here and not flaming you but you really have to do a lot more research than you have done or been told coz many of the things you are doing are wrong but you still have time to change that.

temps are extremely important for your reptiles and therefore you need the right temps... rather than using a heat mat.. you should use a heat globe (during the day) to provide daytime heating and the heat mat for nightime.

you must use a thermometer to test the temp on the heat mat or under the heat globe.. it should be between 30-34 degrees under the heat mat and approx 25-28 on the cool end (no heat).

since he is sick... try get his temp to 30 degrees

please use a thermometer otherwise you can burn him!! so you must keep a constant check on temp. if its too hot or too cold, use a thermostat to control the heating

do more research and just search children's python care sheet on google and you'll find loads of stuff you need to know and are important to keep your snakes healthy

also get the book 'keeping children's python' coz i think you really need it and will be really helpful


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## Gangrenous (Feb 14, 2012)

A caresheet should have been the first thing you looked at before you got him.


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## Vincey (Feb 14, 2012)

Heat mats can get pretty hot. Make sure you check it.. whoever told you not to check temps doesn't know what they're talking about. It's one of the most important rules in keeping reptiles as pets. Not trying to criticise badly just pointing out it's a necessity.

Couldnt agree more with Renenet's post. Hope your snake gets better. You've obviously learned from your mistakes.


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## sara_sabian (Feb 14, 2012)

I wont bother repeating what others have said but I will add that putting him in a glass tank at the moment isn't the best idea, he'll feel pretty vulnerable. He's in bad enough shape without the added stress taxing his system. He also sounds very dehydrated so make sure he has access to fresh water. 
It sounds bad but I hope he makes it through the night for you, please keep us updated.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

fabregasreptiles said:


> should be feeding once very 10 days



A 3 and half year old snake shouldn't be feed every 10 days way to much


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## Wrightpython (Feb 14, 2012)

in future check snake every day morning and night and if you cant see him move hide etc till u do 7 days between veiws is not ideal as a lot can happen in 7 days. He can go months without food esp if your not trying to breed so dont stress over that if you see hes hungry then offer food even live to get him interested but kill rat before giving it to him use it live as a teaser only. How big was the rat


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## Pythoninfinite (Feb 14, 2012)

To all those offering advice - this is almost a triage situation. Priorities are: treatment of the injury/illness first, then everything else can come later. With this exception: do NOT place a glass tank directly on top of a heat mat! Raise the tank a few mm off the floor to allow some air circulation between the tank and the mat or you risk overheating and cracking the tank, or worse - starting a fire. Even a 5W or 7W mat can overheat dangerously. Use a thermostat, but DO NOT rely on it to prevent overheating - they sometimes fail!

A warm spot of 30C is fine, and you could put a few cardboard boxes (shallow) for him to hide under and to retain the warmth around the body. Don't listen to the knowalls who suggest you use heat lamps etc etc - any heat source which give adequate heat will be quite suitable.

Perhaps once the snake has commenced it's recovery, you can look at the other husbandry parameters, but for the moment they can wait.

Jamie


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## kat2005dodi (Feb 14, 2012)

He may need fluids as well as antibiotics, did the vet suggest follow up care?


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thank you to everyone who has commented, I will be doing a lot more research and learning a lot more about my snakes. this has taught me a huge lesson.

Firstly Aladdin made it through the night! yay! still not out of the woods though  

Everyone who mentioned thermometers is there a certain one anyone recommends or special snake one ??? or just use a normal kid one?

He is in a glass tank hand has been all his life so i didn't think it would worry him now. plus I don't want to have to go buy a new enclosure.

I will just be offering dead food from now on if he takes it good, if he doesn't i won't be concerned. I will however be checking my snakes daily to make sure i see them and they are fit and healthy.

My tank has been directly on the mat for 3 years, but i will make sure i raise it now. he does have hideaway places in his tank to he can feel safe and warm.



kat2005dodi said:


> He may need fluids as well as antibiotics, did the vet suggest follow up care?



He always has water in his enclosure, but i have put an extra shallow bath in there in case he wants more. I have to take him back to the vet in a week if he makes it through.


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## akuji (Feb 14, 2012)

I would like to have a go at the breeder that offered this advice, everyone I have spoken to over the time with my fussy snakes have never once said offer live feed. I hope you never go back to this guy/gal as they are an embarrasment to the hobby IMO


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yes i wish I could, But i bought my snakes 3.5 years ago and can't remember the name of the guy i bought them off.

more importantly I will be doing a lot more research and learning to do it all the right way


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## Manda1032 (Feb 14, 2012)

the only time you panic about an adult not eating is when they show signs of weakness, dehydration or start looking poorly. You never feed live, even if you believe the snake is capable cause you never know what could happen to the snake.


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## starr9 (Feb 14, 2012)

Have a look at Snake Ranch and go to there section on Herp Hints as well as the other sections they have there. It will give you some basic info and then you can expand from there. And for a nice basic book to have a look at is "Care of Australian Reptiles in Captivity" By John Weigel. There are some amazing books out there! Others may be able to tell you some other good books! 

Good luck!


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## TreeHugger (Feb 14, 2012)

Hi there. Bettadine is ok but is a slower process of healing. Use a cream that your vet can prescribe, or you can try and get of pharmacist without a prescription. It's called 'silverzine cream' (the One i have, the brand is called 'flamazine') and has been recommended by many on this forum. ask your vet for some, because betterdine may work well on abrasions, something deeper would need something a bit stronger. It works a treat. Maybe your vet isn't aware. Good luck with the little guy.


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

A lot of good advice is coming through and Jacinta sounds like she will be doing all she can for the little guy but surely there are some members who live in that part of the state or not too far away that she could network with? One f the best things I have done while getting into snake keeping is going to a couple of friends places and looking at their setups and how their snakes behave etc. There is a big difference between the two as well, one keeps display cases the other has simple enclosures in the shed, but I have learned a lot from both of them.


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## cools2036 (Feb 14, 2012)

Heard of something similar not long ago, turned out the temps were constantly too high and the snake dies of dehydration.


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## Manda1032 (Feb 14, 2012)

Gruni said:


> A lot of good advice is coming through and Jacinta sounds like she will be doing all she can for the little guy but surely there are some members who live in that part of the state or not too far away that she could network with? One f the best things I have done while getting into snake keeping is going to a couple of friends places and looking at their setups and how their snakes behave etc. There is a big difference between the two as well, one keeps display cases the other has simple enclosures in the shed, but I have learned a lot from both of them.



Good in theory but personally where I live I wouldn't let half the people with herps into my house for fear of contamination..... if you get what I mean. 
Sometimes it's hard to trust with all the horror stories atm


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## veenarm (Feb 14, 2012)

Can I suggest soaking him and giving him a bath?

I did that with burns etc, soak him in a bath type solution with just luke warm water and betadine thrown into it ... he healed very quickly (also using a light not a mat helped aswell)

No one is perfect, we are human we learn from our mistakes is all that matters.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 14, 2012)

veenarm said:


> Can I suggest soaking him and giving him a bath?
> 
> I did that with burns etc, soak him in a bath type solution with just luke warm water and betadine thrown into it ... he healed very quickly (also using a light not a mat helped aswell)
> 
> No one is perfect, we are human we learn from our mistakes is all that matters.



I have been putting betadine on him and spraying him with a luke warm mist spray. Any good or should I do the soaking???


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## junglelove (Feb 14, 2012)

wow some people were harsh!!

but finally someone said soak him!! this is the best way to rehydrate your snake. put him in a tub he cant escape from fill it a little with luke warm water not very deep, and make sure you have a rock or something in there for him to sit on. (so he doesnt drown if hes unwell) you can leave him in there for about 15 minutes.
misting is good but soaking is better he can absorb more fluids that way.

Fortum is a reguarly used antibiotic injection - metacam inj can aslo be used for pain relief.
Dont blame your self many people will feed out live if their animal hasnt eaten it can stimulate them a bit more. but again dont stress if hes not keen on food one of my guys didnt eat for 6months.
hope hes ok
you can inbox me if you want some unjudgemental advice  x


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## Gruni (Feb 18, 2012)

How's your little guy going now Jacinta? Any improvement?


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## jacinta78 (Feb 18, 2012)

Gruni said:


> How's your little guy going now Jacinta? Any improvement?



Hi, 
He is still going that is the main thing.  
He is still very dry, I have been soaking him in luke warm bath, checking him all the time. 
My concern is i have been trying to offer him a pinky rat to eat (as his mouth was sore so I thought little would be good) Anyway not only will he not take it and hasn't eaten since before Christmas, He acts like he is scared of it. Do you know what I could do or should I be worried that he hasn't eaten. I have heard people giving their snakes chicken necks, could i try that as maybe it has a different smell.

Please if you have any other advice I would love to hear it as i am still so worried about him 

Cheers


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## Renenet (Feb 18, 2012)

Jacinta, 

Glad to hear your boy is hanging in there. Does he look any better, do you think? How's the hole healing up? You must be due to take him back to the vet for another shot of antibiotics soon. Let us know how it goes. 

I wouldn't stress about the food for now. Snakes can go for a long time without it, even sick snakes. The snake might not be hungry for a number of reasons. The sore mouth might be one - it could hurt or it might have temporarily damaged his Jacobson's organ, which is what he uses to smell food. It could also be that the snake's body wants to put all its energy into healing. Just give him heat and continue the treatment to help that process along.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 18, 2012)

Thank you, was so worried that he should eat because it has been so long. I thought he was looking a little better, but today he is looking particularly dry. His hole does not seem to have changed much. I am due for the vet this week. He said the antibiotics last 2 weeks, but i'll call this week to see what he has to say. 
Will Aladdins Jacobson's organ heal if that is the case and if so how long does that take do you know?
I am keeping a close eye on him as i am so worried, so any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated 

Thanks


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## grannieannie (Feb 19, 2012)

Hell, maybe I shouldn't say this....but I can't believe what's happened. I know people make mistakes, but like I said, I can't believe what has happened to this poor creature. As you said Jacinta, you do need to do more research. Maybe you should give the little guy to someone else and then do some more reasearch and start again when you understand more of what is involved with keeping and feeding a snake. I'm really trying to be gentle with my comments....but maybe a dog or cat might suit you better for a while !!! Sorry, just my opinion.....


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

I have had my snakes for over 3 years and have never had any problems. This is one mistake i have made. Didnt realise you had never made a mistake in your entire life! I thought it was a human thing to make mistakes. maybe you should keep your opinion to yourself. I am looking for help not for people like you who think they know it all to have a go at me!!!


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## grannieannie (Feb 19, 2012)

Jacinta....I don't think I know it all...and as I said I know people make mistakes...everyone does. I have a Stimmie, he'll be 4 at the end of March, I've had him 3 years....basically the same species as you have. But the first thing I was ever, ever told was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER feed live prey...it's illegal, it can be cruel to both snake and prey. Unless you thoroughly research the animal you're going to buy, everyone will tell you it's irrisponsible to get one. And please don't tell me to keep my opinion to myself, because this is an open forum and I can give my opinion. I have been a member of this forum for a long time and I have a very good reputation here. I hope your snake recovers completely and that you get years of enjoyment from it......I've had my say, and I'll say no more.....but I was entitled to voice my opinion.


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## eipper (Feb 19, 2012)

Suggest to the vet the use of baytril
as the antibiotic. If the snake is emaciated then rehydration via soaking in water with a 10% dilution of a gatoraid/ electrolyte type drink will help.

As for feeding if it has been off its food for about a month now I would not worry.. Stress of attempted feeding will cause stress levels to rise and further suppress a compromised immune system.

7good luck


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well I was never told that. I only did it as he hadn't eaten and I was concerned. First you say I should give him away now you hope I get years of enjoyment. You can have an opinion, everyone is entitled to one. But I am concerned about my snake and would much rather people's help than people like you telling me I should give him away.



eipper said:


> Suggest to the vet the use of baytril
> as the antibiotic. If the snake is emaciated then rehydration via soaking in water with a 10% dilution of a gatoraid/ electrolyte type drink will help.
> 
> As for feeding if it has been off its food for about a month now I would not worry.. Stress of attempted feeding will cause stress levels to rise and further
> ...



Thank you. Imwill be giving those names to the vet. He hasn't eaten for about 2 months now. How long should I wait before being concerned?

Thanks


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## phantomreptiles (Feb 19, 2012)

Live feeding is not illegal but very much frowned upon, and should only be done if the reptiles life is in danger, eg will die in the next few days if it does not eat. (This is for Qld, not sure of other states)
Two months without food is of no concern, they are amazing creatures and can go a very long time without food. My 6yr old spotted only feeds for six months of the year, he stops in April and resumes October, he always has done this, his temperture never changes as he isn't being used for breeding. He only loses about 50gm over the six months.
There is some good advice on here, but the main thing is finding a good vet, some antibiotics don't cover everything, although Fortum is a fairly broad spectrum, even if your vet is not a specialist, he will be able to access fellow veterinarians, also he should have access to something call Veterinary Information Network, this is used for this exact thing, it is for vets only, and they post questions on a forum like this (without the snarky remarks though and yes I have been known to give snarky remarks too) so they can get the advice of people who do deal with reptiles all the time. It is world wide so generally always someone can help at any given time.
At the moment keeping up with the soaking (supervised) and making sure your temps are correct and seeing your vet again are the three most important things at the moment. 
Don't worry about feeding at the moment.
Have you got a thermometer so you can keep an eye on the heat mat temperture and a thermostat so it can stop it getting too hot if you are not there, these where mentioned near the start of this thread so I am sure you have gone out and purchased these items if you didn't already have them.
Once you python is better, perhaps find a reptuable member on here who can give you the correct advice in regards to set up, heat, feeding etc via email or PM's, as I agree I certainly would not let anyone into my house.
You may have had the snake 3.5yrs but as someone said they are very hardy, so perhaps things have been wrong for a long time and finally something pushed it over the edge, such as an injury from live prey.
This is all just in my opinion.........


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## Darlyn (Feb 19, 2012)

To give you an example of the food situation my 5 month old Darwin stopped eating for 4 months. No detrimental effect
and she eats like a champion now. Good luck. Welcome to the forum and read a lot of hubandry threads. 
You'll find great information and it appears you need some.


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## Gruni (Feb 19, 2012)

Good to hear he's hanging in there Jacinta, certainly go bak to the vet if you think there has been no noticible change and maybe recommend that he could network with one of the vets we have mentioned who do have herp experience. Grannie wasn't trying to upset you she was worried about your snakes recovery and thought maybe a more experienced keeper might do better, I think she was also concerned that you sounded so ill informed at the start of the thread. You are already taking the right steps and you are learning, I hope you have tracked down some of the books that are out there, your town library should be able to source them if needs be.

Also just a thought, ask your vet if there is a WIRES member near you who has experience with snakes who you could talk to and may be able to help you with first hand experience.

Good luck and keep us posted. Some pics would be interesting to see.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thank you I will call this week ask about him talking to other people. I am doing everything i can for him. I have got a book am are reading it. I will be getting more books too. 
The wires thing i will ask the vet and ask around the town as i live in a small town people might know. 
I will try and get some pics and post them for you.


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## stimigex (Feb 19, 2012)

There is a vet close to you in Kyabram that has reptile experience!
Her name is Kerry Fraser and she is with the Kyabram Vet Clinic,she is very good with reps.
Personally i would not even take a dead animal to any of the vets in Echcua!


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

stimigex said:


> There is a vet close to you in Kyabram that has reptile experience!
> Her name is Kerry Fraser and she is with the Kyabram Vet Clinic,she is very good with reps.
> Personally i would not even take a dead animal to any of the vets in Echcua!



Thank you I will give her a call. 

I didn't go to Echuca with Aladdin, non of them will even look at a snake. I took him to Rochester who was good with him, but I will give Kerry a call tomorrow.

Cheers


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## akuji (Feb 19, 2012)

I had a jungle go 7 months with out eating as a guide. I was starting to get a little worried by the end


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

akuji said:


> I had a jungle go 7 months with out eating as a guide. I was starting to get a little worried by the end



cool, thanks for the time frame


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## wokka (Feb 19, 2012)

If you snake is on antibiotics that is controlling now the infection, although I have never heard of antibiotics lasting 2 weeks between injections.
Beterdine inhibits new tissue development so now that the infection is under control dont use Beterdine wash on the open wound.
Feeding can wait say 6 months from the last feed and may only cause additional stress.
Make sure the animal is housed between 30-32 C, in a "private" cage to avoid stress. A bath in clean water may assist in preventing dehydration.
Sick animals often dont thermoregulate.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Here a few photos for those who actually care about giving advice, for anyone that would like to tell me how bad he looks and that i should give him away don't bother sharing as I am only after help and advice as I am very worried about him.
I have shed enough tears and don't need to made to feel worse than I already do. I have been putting betadine on his hole as told by the vet, he has had antibiotics, i am soaking him (supervised) each day. Any other suggestions would be appreciated 
View attachment 239124

View attachment 239126

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wokka said:


> If you snake is on antibiotics that is controlling now the infection, although I have never heard of antibiotics lasting 2 weeks between injections.
> Beterdine inhibits new tissue development so now that the infection is under control dont use Beterdine wash on the open wound.
> Feeding can wait say 6 months from the last feed and may only cause additional stress.
> Make sure the animal is housed between 30-32 C, in a "private" cage to avoid stress. A bath in clean water may assist in preventing dehydration.
> Sick animals often dont thermoregulate.



Thank you for your advice. With the antibiotics that is what the vet said, that it would last 2 weeks but i have to go back this week which has only been a week so i will ask about it. As for the batadine, I was just doing as vet said but will stop if it is going to cause more problems. I do soak him for about 20mins a day as someone suggested. in clean luke warm water with a rock so he can keep his head out. He is in his own enclosure with monitored temp.
Thank you any advice is appreciated


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## Bedella (Feb 19, 2012)

Hey Jacinta  sounds like you are onto it here  its really great the advise all these people are offering. I dont have a snake but i just though i would suggest to make his glass enclosure a bit more secure for him while he is recovering you could put a sheet of cardboard up over the sides 
Im sure he will pull through just fine - like i think renette said - hardy little beggers haha 
good luck 
Bec


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks Bec  I'll do the cardboard today


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## phantomreptiles (Feb 19, 2012)

The only two week ab I know of is convenia, which is only registered for cats & dogs. But perhaps it can be used off label for reptiles.....though I have not heard of this yet???


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## wokka (Feb 19, 2012)

jacinta78 said:


> Here a few photos for those who actually care about giving advice, for anyone that would like to tell me how bad he looks and that i should give him away don't bother sharing as I am only after help and advice as I am very worried about him.
> I have shed enough tears and don't need to made to feel worse than I already do. I have been putting betadine on his hole as told by the vet, he has had antibiotics, i am soaking him (supervised) each day. Any other suggestions would be appreciated
> View attachment 239124
> 
> ...


I am not a vet but my understanding is that Betadine is a first line of defence until better controls, probably antibiotics, have controlled the source of any infection. From what you say the hole is not improving (I cant see the pics), which suggests the Betadine may be inhibiting new cell development. Too long and the hole will be surrounded by scar tissue which does not heal well, so it may need to be debrided to encourage healing. If the animal is not on antibiotics then it may be a risk to stop Beterdine. My understanding is that even long acting antibiotics need to be topped up every three days in reptiles.Your vet will normally give you say 2weeks of doses, and show you how to do intramuscular injections.Discuss this with your vet.


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## pythoncrazy (Feb 19, 2012)

I am a little shocked and disappointed with this thread and how it went due to the fact all this person wanted was some help for the sick or near dead snake and most of the replies were to criticise and not offer help. 
Let me say this, people turn to this site for help with there reptiles not to be criticised, if you want to criticise pm them.


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## grannieannie (Feb 19, 2012)

I want everyone to know that I sent a PM to Jacinta last night apologising for the harshness of my remarks I made to her. I try to live by the moral code of....if you can't say anything kind and constructive, don't say anything at all.....I didn't live up to that code yesterday, and for that I apologise.


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## Bedella (Feb 19, 2012)

Annie you were having one of those human moments


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## grannieannie (Feb 19, 2012)

Bedella said:


> Annie you were having one of those human moments



Well, I've apologised to her and I hope everyone else forgives me too. I don't like to be a cranky old bitch....I should have kept my mouth shut. In my younger days I was an angry person, now I'm a bit older I'd like to think I've gained a bit of wisdom.....but sometimes not it seems.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

pythoncrazy said:


> I am a little shocked and disappointed with this thread and how it went due to the fact all this person wanted was some help for the sick or near dead snake and most of the replies were to criticise and not offer help.
> Let me say this, people turn to this site for help with there reptiles not to be criticised, if you want to criticise pm them.



I totally agree with you. This is the first time i have been on this site, and I was highly shocked at how many people wanted to criticise rather than help.. Thanks for having your say, glad I'm not the only one that thinks this.


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## Nighthawk (Feb 19, 2012)

jacinta78 said:


> I totally agree with you. This is the first time i have been on this site, and I was highly shocked at how many people wanted to criticise rather than help.. Thanks for having your say, glad I'm not the only one that thinks this.



I'm not condoning the reactions a lot of people had on this thread, but I understand them. There are often a few people who float through and 'troll' by posting bizarre and unbelievable issues, and at first glance yours looked like one of them. I'm not ashamed to say I thought so at first, until I let it get on a bit and read through up until today.
Regardless though, the first and foremost reaction should be to help, although I've probably snapped a bit at a few threads myself a while ago. If it turns out the OP was trolling, bully for them, it's not likely to affect the thread commenter one iota. If however, like this thread, it turns out the actions/consequences were genuine and a genuine mistake then you've helped someone out. Win win, really.
I hope your little guy pulls through jacinta, I really do. Good luck with him, and I wish I had more to add. Maybe check through a few older threads on here about healing reps, there could be some good tips to be had or members to PM, I seem to recall a large boa being rehabbed from a sizeable hole in the head... was it a retic? Not sure. I do know it was offshore though.


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## Darlyn (Feb 19, 2012)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/major-skin-loss-bone-161430/

Pretty sure this is the one you mean Nighthawk. Read the entire thread Jacinta lots of information in here
and give you an idea of the healing powers of snakes.


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## Sammy555j (Feb 19, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> Hell, maybe I shouldn't say this....but I can't believe what's happened. I know people make mistakes, but like I said, I can't believe what has happened to this poor creature. As you said Jacinta, you do need to do more research. Maybe you should give the little guy to someone else and then do some more reasearch and start again when you understand more of what is involved with keeping and feeding a snake. I'm really trying to be gentle with my comments....but maybe a dog or cat might suit you better for a while !!! Sorry, just my opinion.....



Wow, I think you should shut up....


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## Nighthawk (Feb 19, 2012)

That's the one, thanks Darlyn


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## Sammy555j (Feb 19, 2012)

Anyhow, I hope your python get's better.


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## Nighthawk (Feb 19, 2012)

Sammy555j said:


> Wow, I think you should shut up....



Keep reading Sammy...


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## Sammy555j (Feb 19, 2012)

I did.....?


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## Nighthawk (Feb 19, 2012)

All good. Just thought I'd let you know that Grannieannie apologised for her actions and that no further narration was really necessary


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## PythonLegs (Feb 19, 2012)

pythoncrazy said:


> I am a little shocked and disappointed with this thread and how it went due to the fact all this person wanted was some help for the sick or near dead snake and most of the replies were to criticise and not offer help.
> Let me say this, people turn to this site for help with there reptiles not to be criticised, if you want to criticise pm them.



Rubbish. She did the wrong and got bagged for it. Hopefully the short sharp shocks make her wake up to herself and not do it again. The animal is in the condition it's in because of ignorance and stupidity, primarily on the breeders head, but there you go. I think the O.P realised she did the wrong thing and she's now fixed everything up, and good on her. All you hippies who want to pat people on the head when they screw up need a big ol' glass of harden up.


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## thomasssss (Feb 19, 2012)

no one likes bad criticism but when you make a stuff up like this your going to get it and kinda deserve it imo


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. it is a human thing that we do. I realise people are upset that my snake is bad condition BUT no one is more upset than me!!! I was doing what I was told by a breeder. I am trying my butt off to fix what I have done. for all the people who just want to have a go at me why don't you try having something constructive to say rather than i should be knocked on the head,"i should give my snake away" an other things. You can all go jump as you have no idea who i am or how i look after my animals. as for making one mistake i was told by a breeder to do again people make mistakes. tell me one of you that have never made a mistake in your life...
I got on this site as I thought i could get some help.
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH TO THOSE WHO HAVE HONESTLY HELPED AND HAD SUGGESTIONS.



Sammy555j said:


> Anyhow, I hope your python get's better.



Thank you Sammy


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## Gruni (Feb 19, 2012)

Ahhh the joys of public forums... just like a'holes everyone has an opinion. 

The majority of posts have been constructive even a lot of the 'You did what???' posts mostly turn into a helpful response. Even Annie's reaction was driven by wanting the best for the snake and was intended as a diplomatic response it was just something that was never going to sit well with someone who feels bad about their pet.

Let's all stop for a breath and let the thread get back on track with Jacinta feeling comfortable to share how Aladin is progressing and letting us know what she is learning. I am hoping to read good news when she gets hold of the vet with the reptile experience.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Darlyn said:


> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/major-skin-loss-bone-161430/
> 
> Pretty sure this is the one you mean Nighthawk. Read the entire thread Jacinta lots of information in here
> and give you an idea of the healing powers of snakes.



Thank you Darlyn for the link  will read it now.

View attachment 239199

View attachment 239200

first photo he has batadine, second one has has just has a bath.


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## Striker (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi Jacinta

I'm sure there are people on here who are better at this than me but here is my two cents. I'd try diluted chlorhexidine on the wound in order to vary the treatment a bit from betadine (particularly if the betadine doesn't seem to be doing much). Soaking the wound in a bath of chlorhexidine if possible (I can't see your attachments to have a look at the picture of where the wound is) for 10 - 30 minutes should help. Some studies have demonstrated chlorhexidine is better. 


If the snake is septic (and it appears it is) fluids are essential and some of the others on here already pointed that out and offered advice on how to maintain hydration. Fluid injection will also help if it's really dehydrated (but get your vet to sort that one out). 

Natural sunlight (don't cook it - about 20 minutes and be extra cautious if it's a really hot day) is always better for any reptile than UV lighting, and I think it helps a lot when they're sick. 

Lastly a second opinion from a vet (particularly if yours isn't too flash with reptiles) is definitely recommended. Try Canley Heights Veterinary Clinic - (02) 9604 9300. James or Teri - Excellent reptile vets. I don't know what they can offer over the phone but it's worth a call. 

Good luck with it and remember reptiles do everything slower. It takes longer before they exhibit obvious signs that they are sick, and conversely it takes longer for them to recover. Because it's a slow process no news is good news. Deterioration is bad. I'll keep an eye on this post to see how he goes.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Striker said:


> Hi Jacinta
> 
> I'm sure there are people on here who are better at this than me but here is my two cents. I'd try diluted chlorhexidine on the wound in order to vary the treatment a bit from betadine (particularly if the betadine doesn't seem to be doing much). Soaking the wound in a bath of chlorhexidine if possible (I can't see your attachments to have a look at the picture of where the wound is) for 10 - 30 minutes should help. Some studies have demonstrated chlorhexidine is better.
> 
> ...



Thank you. I appreciate your 2 gets worth lol. I will try doing what you suggested. 
As for my photos i am not sure why my photos aren't working. i have put them up twice 
Anyway thanks again for your advice and the phone number 

Ok I have put photos of Aladdin in my profile in a photo album. Let me know if you can see them


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## Striker (Feb 19, 2012)

Can see the photos. The wound does look deep, but I didn't see it 5 days ago when you first posted. And regardless of how it looks, I can't really think of much more to offer other than the bits and pieces of constructive advice that was already suggested by others in the previous posts in amongst all the unnecessary abuse. 

There just isn't that much else you can do for them. Antibiotics, a topical antiseptic like betadine or chlorhexidine, hydration, sunlight and good recovery conditions. He won't eat while he's sick so I wouldn't worry too much about that (keep offering every week or so though - if he eats at least it's a sign he's improving). Call one of the good reputable reptile vets tomorrow and see what they say.


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## Renenet (Feb 19, 2012)

pythoncrazy said:


> Let me say this, people turn to this site for help with there reptiles not to be criticised, if you want to criticise pm them.



I agree as a general proposition. In many of these threads I am shocked by some of the comments that come out. What's done is done; in the end, what matters is that there is an animal that needs help.

However, I do think it's important to publicly comment on husbandry mistakes that led to the problem - and there's nothing that says you can't be diplomatic about it. Learning from your mistakes is intelligent. Learning from other people's mistakes - even more intelligent. If everyone was too PC to explain that live feeding is not a good thing, or that you need to monitor temperatures in a snake's enclosure, how are people to do this?


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## Nighthawk (Feb 19, 2012)

Just a thought: You mentioned he was getting dehydrated quite easily and we used to use the same substrate, we found it tended to absorb a lot of the moisture in the air inside the enclosure. It also would raise a fair bit of dust, so we ended up changing to butcher paper, then to this carpety stuff (don't really know a good way to describe it, kind of like a cross between astroturf and suede, but it's brilliant for a quick clean with a wet 'n' dry vac + a spray of F10...) mainly because it gave us a few concerns about both dehydration and breathing in/swallowing particles from the cat litter resulting in impaction or RI.
I know you said the original breeder recommended it for substrate, and a lot of people use it with little to no ill-effects, but I just thought you may like to know if dehydration is still an issue.
Other than that he's not looking as bad as I thought, but then again I can't see how he moves. Again, good luck


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## Renenet (Feb 19, 2012)

Yeah, without seeing how he moves and acts, I agree that he looks okay in the photos. That hole looks pretty nasty, but as long as it's not getting bigger or looking worse, there's still plenty of hope left.

Aladdin is a nice snake, Jacinta. I hope he gets better for you. When I mentioned the Jacobson's organ, it was only to illustrate that there could be any number of reasons why your snake won't eat. As others have said, feeding is not important for now. If a human didn't eat while sick, it would be a worry. For a snake, it's not that big a deal. The two species have completely different metabolisms. 

Let us know how you go with the new vet.


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## longqi (Feb 19, 2012)

HYDRATE
Use a powerade type energy supplement drink
10% ade 90% water
Any of the energy drinks will do the same thing
Gatorade is usually not as sticky as some others
But all use practically identical recipes where the energy bits count

Usually I immerse the entire reptile and leave it to soak and drink as long as its happy in there
With the hole in the side I am not sure about how to go about it
It all depends on whether or not the hole goes right through to organs or gut cavity
If you think it may go through, use a wet sponge instead and avoid the hole getting too wet
You can also add powerade etc to its water or syringe some into it [about 1 snakes head of ade is enough, so it varies from snake to snake depending on their head size]

Rest and recuperation now
Best thing out to let them recover

Silverzine florazine etc all work on wounds


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## Renenet (Feb 19, 2012)

Ah, Longqi. Excellent. I was hoping you'd pop up eventually.


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## rozzza.louise89 (Feb 19, 2012)

So, how is he going??


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thank you to everyone with all the new advice.  you have no idea how much i appreciate all the helpful info you are all sharing   
I have photos in my profile taken of Aladdin today. 
His dry skin is looking so much better than a week ago, he is moving more but spending 90% of his time under his house on his heat mat. When I soak him he is now moving a lot. and after his soaking I put him back in his enclosure he looks around for 20mins then goes back to his house and heat mat.
His eyes are still clear, I have physically seen him have some big drinks which is great 
his hole is not getting bigger or worse. I have been putting betadine on but as of today have now stopped as suggested. it is not looking any better either though 

Thank you to the sincere people who are concerned I'm hoping he is on the mend.
I am going to call a few new people and Vet I have been given numbers for tomorrow.

Thank you 
Jacinta


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## longqi (Feb 19, 2012)

betadine may actually kill new cell growth
thats why it looks the same

they take a LOOOONG time to heal because of their slow metabolisms
so if its drinking etc its probably going to be fine
just dont panic too much

a gut infection etc would have made itself very clear by now
so peritonitis etc can most probably be crossed off your list


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

longqi said:


> betadine may actually kill new cell growth
> thats why it looks the same
> 
> they take a LOOOONG time to heal because of their slow metabolisms
> ...



Do you know what symptoms peritonitis would show?


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## notechistiger (Feb 19, 2012)

Those photos uploaded today disturbed me. I'm glad I didn't see what it was like previously.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> Those photos uploaded today disturbed me. I'm glad I didn't see what it was like previously.



Sorry they disturb you, that was not my intention. 
He is not as dry as he was but the hole was no worse. it has not really changed much. Hoping it will start eating better now with all the good advice i am getting


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## notechistiger (Feb 19, 2012)

I didn't mean it as an accusation. =)


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## jacinta78 (Feb 19, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> I didn't mean it as an accusation. =)




Thats ok, I just wanted to say sorry as i know some pictures can upset people, that was not my intention. Just wanted people to see what i was talking about so i could get best advice


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## longqi (Feb 20, 2012)

peritonitis is usually caused by an infection 
often from things like a damaged rib entering stomach cavity
usually hits pretty hard and fairly fast compared to other reptile problems
usually a lump near gut that just gets bigger and nastier
needs very urgent attention or will be fatal

99% sure your baby does not have peritonitis
rest and recuperation is best now

dont sweat the feeding
snakes can go a long time without tucker
sick snakes rarely feed
just make sure it has access to fluids and keep it warm as you are doing


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## jacinta78 (Feb 20, 2012)

Got the Maduka Honey off a friend today have applied it.

BUT!!!! so excited! ALADDIN ATE!!!! YAY! YAY! YAY!

Was only 2 small pinky rats as to not stretch his mouth. But he ate!!! so excited.
He is looking better today not as dry and moving faster 

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED AND GAVE ME SOME GREAT ADVICE......
Have tried to call vet but can't speak to them as yet. Will call back this arvo 

THANK YOU


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## Nighthawk (Feb 20, 2012)

Brilliant news Jacinta


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## MontyTheBredl (Feb 20, 2012)

snakes are hardier than most people think. he will be just fine, keep up what your doing because it seems your doing a great job


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## Gruni (Feb 20, 2012)

Funny I didn't even think of the range of uses for Maduka honey. Great news Jacinta.


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## stimigex (Feb 20, 2012)

Its actually Manuka honey, Leptospermum Scoparium or Leptospermum Polyglaifolium.
It come from a few isolated regions in Australia but it predominantly
found in New Zealand.
It has great antibacterial properties and facilatates new tissue growth.


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## Fantazmic (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi Jacinta

Ive read through the whole thread.

Something you asked you didnt get a reply to was what sort of thermometer you should use.

I have a infrared thermometer..it looks like a gun. I bought it on ebay quite cheap it was like $20. I cant see a brand on it but it is black and yellow. It is one of the best husbandry tools I ever bought.

You can zap any part of he environment the snake is in including the snake itself to test temperature.

Last night I touched my babies heat mats as I was cleaning them out (they are in click clacks) and I thought they dont seem like they are on. Checked the thermostat and it said 30 degrees according to the probe etc. I thought it doesnt seem right...though I dont know why I didnt think it was given I was in a strapless dress and not even cold. Anyway I just grabbed the temp gun and tested the temp and had piece of mind.

Also with your heat mat...be very careful people have had fires. I use a habistat heat mat and I know they are more expensive but the cheaper ones can be very dodgy. I have the heat mat set up on a towel and then a plastic click clack on top. The click clack has no weight in it so the heat mat is not compressed if that makes sense.

I was only asking last night about larger plastic tubs and starmaid make a 52 litre and a 115 litre which are also appropriate for snake enclosures and would be fine for a little stimmie and are very cheap.

I honestly think long term you should think very carefully about continuing to use a glass tank for Aladdin. They are notorious for being very hard to regulate temp in because of the glass and you can end up spending more than you need in electricity bills. The starmaid site have pics of their tubs and they are really nice. Bunnings also have good tubs if you want something longer and flatter. Just make sure that you dont get a click clack with wheels on the bottom it creates too much of a gap between the bottom of the tub and the heat mat and you cant get the heat into the tub. Also try to get something as see through as possible so you can see inside and not have to open the lid to check on your snake all the time.

There is a thread on here that is a sticky (i think it is in herp help up the top) called how to build a click clack. I promise you if you follow the instructions to the letter you will have a wonderful house for aladdin that is nice and warm that he can thermoregulate in. 

We just upgrade sizes of the click clacks for our babies as they grow (and as we save for some snake palaces) 

I also dont like hides I use paper towel as a substrait. If the snake wants to hide they can go under it and it gets changed every time it is dirty. It means that they cant really go off on their own without me seeing them, yet at the same time they can snuggle under the towel (mine have been known to make a nest with it) and they are warm clean and dry. Others may disagree with me but I have four healthy jungles to show for this method and my two adults have basking shelves and have now got 'used' to not hiding and sit on their shelves watching us and sizing up our dogs as they run past every day. They are both relaxed and thriving. I remember Brian from the herp shop telling us when we first started "no hides" you need to be able to keep an eye on your snake. 

I hope this helps you. Its a lot to take in. 


Elizabeth


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## CrystalMoon (Feb 21, 2012)

I hope your snake has pulled through, sometimes we're damned if we do and damned if we dont. I would dislike very much to be in you and your snakes position. 
Kind regards
Crystal

AAhhhh I should learn to look before I leap lol.... I am so glad Aladdin is on the mend and eating 
I am really glad you got such wonderful help(I am not surprized though, most only want to help  )


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## longqi (Feb 21, 2012)

stimigex said:


> Its actually Manuka honey, Leptospermum Scoparium or Leptospermum Polyglaifolium.
> It come from a few isolated regions in Australia but it predominantly
> found in New Zealand.
> It has great antibacterial properties and facilatates new tissue growth.



It is pretty cool stuff
We use it a fair bit on wounds


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## Striker (Feb 23, 2012)

Any update on him Jacinta?


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## Gruni (Feb 23, 2012)

What did the herp vet say?


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## Reptile_lover83 (Feb 23, 2012)

I know a lot of ppl have said not to feed live but in actual fact, it's illegal to feed them live prey
As you would know, a lot of pythons go off their food when they're going to shed so perhaps this is why he went of his food. 
What area are you in? I know a few herp vets around Sydney but you can also google for herp vets. 
Good luck


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## J-A-X (Feb 23, 2012)

Oz_H_Girl said:


> I know a lot of ppl have said not to feed live but in actual fact, it's illegal to feed them live prey
> ......................



how many times does it have to be said.... live feeding is NOT illegal. it IS however inhumane to both prey and captive animal and should only ever used as a last resort in order to save a starving individual and should always be supervised and the prey removed if the predator shows no interest. 

I'm not having a go at anyone for doing it as there are times it is no doubt needed. I'm just fed up with people waving the "illegal" flag when its not. 

Jacinta sounds like she has had a harsh lesson in 'learning by your mistakes' and has seen the error of her ways and is attempting to correct a dreadful mistake. Lets not make matters worse by making her think that she has acted illegally when she hasnt. 
I hope that the patient is still on the mend.


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## Reptile_lover83 (Feb 24, 2012)

jacinta78 said:


> Thank you to everyone who has commented, I will be doing a lot more research and learning a lot more about my snakes. this has taught me a huge lesson.
> 
> Firstly Aladdin made it through the night! yay! still not out of the woods though
> 
> ...




Hi Jacinta, there are many different types of thermostats - digital and analogue. I have both and I have mine connected to ceramic heat lamps (the turn the lamps off and on automatically depending on the temperature). I'm not sure if they can be used with heat mats (I'm sure someone that uses mats can tell you) but if not, then perhaps a heat lamp with a thermostat attached may be the way to go.

Good luck



notechistiger said:


> Those photos uploaded today disturbed me. I'm glad I didn't see what it was like previously.



I'd suggest you read all the previous posts on this thread. You comments are completely inappropriate and unnecessary!



Jaxrtfm said:


> how many times does it have to be said.... live feeding is NOT illegal. it IS however inhumane to both prey and captive animal and should only ever used as a last resort in order to save a starving individual and should always be supervised and the prey removed if the predator shows no interest.



The reason I stated that it was illegal is because it is illegal to take any creatures life (in NSW anyway). I'm not even kidding! I wasn't having a go at Jacinta (geez she seems to have copped it), just merely stating.


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## notechistiger (Feb 24, 2012)

I suggest you read all the previous posts because I have already had input on this thread  I have been following this thread avidly and can't give any advice that hasn't already been given. I don't think my comment was inappropriate at all. I think laying into someone that has already had a very hard lesson learned is inappropriate and unnecessary.



> The reason I stated that it was illegal is because it is illegal to take any creatures life



That must make it very hard for vets there. Have any evidence for this (or where it is on paper)?


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## Chanzey (Feb 24, 2012)

Oz_H_Girl;2141370
The reason I stated that it was illegal is because it is illegal to take any creatures life (in NSW anyway). I'm not even kidding! I wasn't having a go at Jacinta (geez she seems to have copped it) said:


> How in the world can this be true? So no one goes fishing and takes fish home? No one goes hunting for pigs/deer etc?


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## J-A-X (Feb 24, 2012)

Killing a protected species is illegal unless you fear for your life (EG: venomous snake) . Killing for sport is also illegal without permit (EG: duck hunting)
These are the only "illegal" killings I'm aware of


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## Fantazmic (Feb 24, 2012)

so how about Aladdin...can we hear about him and howhe is going ?


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## Striker (Feb 25, 2012)

Yeah anyone who read this will be curious I'm sure...


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## thesnakemaster (Feb 25, 2012)

you must find a herp specialist vet or i suggest putting it down you might hope that it pulls through but more likly its just dieing very slowly i am truly sorry but you must do what is right for the snake


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## Nighthawk (Feb 25, 2012)

Snakemaster... the last update was that it was doing better and had eaten. Did you read the whole thread...?


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## Gruni (Feb 25, 2012)

What an insensitive post! If you bothered to read the thread you would know that she has been getting it seen to and was in the process of seeing a herp vet when she last posted. She also has stated that his condition overall seems to be improving.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi All, Sorry I have not been on few a while.
Aladdin is doing soooooo well  
I spoke to vet and he said to continue with what i am doing. He didn't need anymore antibiotics. he is well on the mend. need to feed him again in a day or two. when he sheds he will look so much better.
He still has his hole but using the honey is fixing it and it is getting a lot smaller than what it was.
Aladdin is much more active and alert. looking great and will be fine 
I have learnt a huge lesson. I will not or never was going to put him down. some people should learn to read before making comments!
Thank you so much to everyone who has followed aladdin's recovery and offered some fantastic advice. you have all been mine and Aladdin's life savers.

Cheers
Jacinta


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## Renenet (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm so pleased to hear Aladdin is on the mend. Thanks for the update.


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## Nighthawk (Feb 25, 2012)

Really really good to hear Jacinta; you've done a brilliant job


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## Gruni (Feb 25, 2012)

thesnakemaster said:


> you must find a herp specialist vet or i suggest putting it down you might hope that it pulls through but more likly its just dieing very slowly i am truly sorry but you must do what is right for the snake



Now that Jacinta has had the chance to set you straight with how well her little guy as pulled through how about you either learn some diplomacy or keep your opinons to yourself until you dry up a bit as you are obviously still wet behind the ears. 

There have been a number of threads that show how tough snakes are and how they can pull through with some tlc do a search for recent threads about rescuing Bredli and see what can be done befor you tell someone to put their favourite down, or are you that stone cold you would knock your snake on the head if he was sick??

Oh and Jacinta... This thread is useless without pics!!!8)


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## jacinta78 (Feb 25, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Now that Jacinta has had the chance to set you straight with how well her little guy as pulled through how about you either learn some diplomacy or keep your opinons to yourself until you dry up a bit as you are obviously still wet behind the ears.
> 
> There have been a number of threads that show how tough snakes are and how they can pull through with some tlc do a search for recent threads about rescuing Bredli and see what can be done befor you tell someone to put their favourite down, or are you that stone cold you would knock your snake on the head if he was sick??
> 
> Oh and Jacinta... This thread is useless without pics!!!8)



Thanks for your support Gruni 
I have tried and tried to put pics in this tread but they won't show  I have however put some of aladdin in my profile so whomever is interested can go there and have a look. Will put some updated photos this week after next feed


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## FoxForceFive (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi Jacinta

I'm so glad to read that Aladdin is doing so much better. I just joined this site and I am in the process of buying a Diamond Python. 

I wanted you to know that I read your entire thread and I have learnt so much from what everyone has written. I'm sorry that some people gave you a hard time, but it's awesome to see the majority give extremely informative advice.


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## Bandit05 (Feb 25, 2012)

I hope you dont mind me trying to put your pics up for you Jacinta . Im glad Alladin is recovering .


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## Gruni (Feb 25, 2012)

Must admit he really does look ordinary at this point doesn't he? Can't wait to see him after he sheds.


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## jacinta78 (Feb 25, 2012)

FoxForceFive said:


> Hi Jacinta
> 
> I'm so glad to read that Aladdin is doing so much better. I just joined this site and I am in the process of buying a Diamond Python.
> 
> I wanted you to know that I read your entire thread and I have learnt so much from what everyone has written. I'm sorry that some people gave you a hard time, but it's awesome to see the majority give extremely informative advice.



So glad it has been helpful, there were a few out there just wanted to jump on my head but WOW, the support and help here is awesome. have fun with your new diamond 



Bandit05 said:


> View attachment 240264
> View attachment 240265
> I hope you dont mind me trying to put your pics up for you Jacinta . Im glad Alladin is recovering .



Thanks heaps i tried and failed a few times. will put some more up this coming week 



Gruni said:


> Must admit he really does look ordinary at this point doesn't he? Can't wait to see him after he sheds.



very  but looking better everyday now


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## Bandit05 (Feb 25, 2012)

Mine sometimes dont work either but I just use the go advanced button and most of the time it works lol . If you have problems again I can do it again for you . I cant wait to see him when he sheds . 

Cheers Deb


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## jacinta78 (Feb 25, 2012)

Bandit05 said:


> Mine sometimes dont work either but I just use the go advanced button and most of the time it works lol . If you have problems again I can do it again for you . I cant wait to see him when he sheds .
> 
> Cheers Deb



Thanks Deb  
will get them up as soon as he sheds, hopefully this week


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## Striker (Feb 25, 2012)

Put him down? Wow. No second chances for a sick snake in that household....

I notice mine seem to slow down a little in winter. Seeing I could never be absolutely certain as to whether it's because they're sick or not this year it'll be "off with their heads" if they don't stay active.


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## Manda1032 (Feb 25, 2012)

Is it just me or is he very yellow? His colouring. Glad to hear he's on the mend!


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## Gruni (Feb 25, 2012)

Striker said:


> Put him down? Wow. No second chances for a sick snake in that household....
> 
> I notice mine seem to slow down a little in winter. Seeing I could never be absolutely certain as to whether it's because they're sick or not this year it'll be "off with their heads" if they don't stay active.



Yes but he is The Snake _Master_ so best not to second guess that one I think Striker... :lol:


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## jacinta78 (Feb 25, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> Is it just me or is he very yellow? His colouring. Glad to hear he's on the mend!



Nah not you or him..lol
**** lighting in my lounge room  drives me insane


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## Fantazmic (Feb 26, 2012)

Snakemaster I am not sure where you are coming from but clearly you have limited experience in these matters.

There is an old saying....'If you don't have anything helpfu to say don't say anything at all !!'


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## Skelhorn (Feb 27, 2012)

For future reference...Not too sure if anyone else has said it but for a live feed (as it is illegal) as a last resort give the rat a small bash on the head to stun them a bit that way the snake can strike and coil without getting bitten. Hope the little fella is on the mend!


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## Reptile_lover83 (Feb 28, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> That must make it very hard for vets there. Have any evidence for this (or where it is on paper)?



Hi there. I believe that it's different for vets to euthanize a creature that is dying etc but I am awaiting a call from the RSPCA to confirm that it is illegal


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## notechistiger (Feb 28, 2012)

Hah! The RSPCA... I had a chat not too long ago with a representative who told me all rats that are used from reptile food are leftovers from scientific research, that it is illegal for pet stores to sell frozen rodents as snake food and that it would lead to a long and detailed investigation, and that under no circumstances are reptile enthusiasts legally allowed to breed rodents for their reptiles, in ANY state.

She was being absolutely serious. They really do know nothing.


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## stimigex (Feb 28, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> Hah! The RSPCA... I had a chat not too long ago with a representative who told me all rats that are used from reptile food are leftovers from scientific research, that it is illegal for pet stores to sell frozen rodents as snake food and that it would lead to a long and detailed investigation, and that under no circumstances are reptile enthusiasts legally allowed to breed rodents for their reptiles, in ANY state.
> 
> She was being absolutely serious. They really do know nothing.



That does not suprize me at all!
The RSPCA are nothing more than oxygen thieves that dont have a grasp on reality!


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## Manda1032 (Feb 28, 2012)

Nah man that's true. I only feed my snakes vegetables, oxygen and my fingers. Its cool tho,...... my vegies grow back!

Ok Jacinta, I just thought he was a high yellow colouring. I have one of them lights out the back. doesn't attract bugs my butt! lol


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## Nighthawk (Feb 28, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> Nah man that's true. I only feed my snakes vegetables, oxygen and my fingers. Its cool tho,...... my vegies grow back!



I've cut back on veges and fingers; my girls are getting fat. Apparently ice chips are good as well if the labs haven't been doing much research lately, but I don't need to worry about that; our contact in the labs will bodge up plenty on viral tests so we have plenty of food for our snakes


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## kitty.kirst (Mar 1, 2012)

How is he Jacinta?need an update for all of us that care.


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## jacinta78 (Mar 1, 2012)

kitty.kirst said:


> How is he Jacinta?need an update for all of us that care.



He is looking better tried feeding him again, but he wasn't interested. Will keep offering him food can't wait to see him when he sheds. Will post photos when he does. Thanks for asking Kittly Kirst


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## Gruni (Mar 2, 2012)

Jacinta, what are you offering him to eat? Maybe some of the guys on here will have some suggestions if he is still being fussy after he sheds. What was he like before as far as how often would he refuse food and when he took it how well did he hit it etc? If you can dexcribe what it has been like to feed Alladin in the past it would probably help.


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## Nighthawk (Mar 5, 2012)

How's Aladdin Jacinta? Any signs of shed or increased feeding?


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## kitty.kirst (Mar 6, 2012)

Update hon?


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## jacinta78 (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi All, 
Sorry been slack on here, started studying and its so full on.

There is no sign of eating or shedding. Am offering small rat, think i might try something else just to see if it is the smell putting him off as he seems scared of it.

He is also looking dry still so will give him baths again to try and get moisture into him.

Cheers
Jacinta


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## Gruni (Mar 7, 2012)

Jacinta, what was his feeding pattern like before? How often, what type of feed, how often would he get fussy? Also how big is he? My Mac is 70cm and about as thick as my thumb and he is taking 1/2 grown mice. Maybe yours would go something like a full grown mouse or two?


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## jacinta78 (Mar 8, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Jacinta, what was his feeding pattern like before? How often, what type of feed, how often would he get fussy? Also how big is he? My Mac is 70cm and about as thick as my thumb and he is taking 1/2 grown mice. Maybe yours would go something like a full grown mouse or two?




Hey Gruni,
Before he was sick he didn't really have a pattern he would eat when he wanted to and wouldn't if he didn't feel like it. but he would go about a month at the most of not eating. He would eat small rats when he did eat. Im going to offer a mouse maybe a different smell would help.


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## stimigex (Mar 8, 2012)

He may not be interested in feeding for a few reasons, Your heating may not be constant enough
to keep up with the night temp drops, He is recovering from trauma and they usually wont eat,
etc.
We are in the same area as your self and quite a lot of our adult Antaresia have stopped feeding 
as the season is changing.
Just keep him warm (32-34 hot end), hydrated and offer him a feed once every couple of weeks, If he refuses dont be to concerned.


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## jacinta78 (Mar 8, 2012)

stimigex said:


> He may not be interested in feeding for a few reasons, Your heating may not be constant enough
> to keep up with the night temp drops, He is recovering from trauma and they usually wont eat,
> etc.
> We are in the same area as your self and quite a lot of our adult Antaresia have stopped feeding
> ...



Great thanks for that stimigex


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## jacinta78 (Mar 29, 2012)

He ate! He ate! He ate! 
Very excited. Aladin ate a fuzzy rat today. He is still on the mend. Looking a little better. Hasn't shed but hoping he will start feeding better now.


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## Gruni (Mar 29, 2012)

That is so excellent! I would still check out those threads I pm'd you incase he gets fussy again. Well done for hanging in there. 8)


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## Venomous_RBB (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi Jacinta,
I am sorry to hear about your little fella, I am glad for yours and his sake he is getting better though 
Please keep us updated, would love to see some pics of him when he sheds. He is very cute by the way


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## jacinta78 (Apr 2, 2012)

Gruni I have looked into them. Thanks heaps 

Blackjack1 thank you, and as soon as he sheds i will be photographing him


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## CrystalMoon (Apr 2, 2012)

Great news that he has fed  so happy for you both xx


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## jacinta78 (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks CrystalMoon. Keeping a close eye on him still but so glad he ate as well


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## Venomous_RBB (Apr 3, 2012)

Your Welcome 
Glad he is eating for you, great news.


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## Nes88c (Apr 5, 2012)

just read the whole thread. sorry about all the opinions and snide remarks... comes with the forum. 

glad that his is doing ok. and by the sounds of it much happier too. 

its sad to think that a breeder could tell you this adivce, so dont worry to mch about that, many new snake owners do exactly what their breeder has told them, and its not until the research or come on here they find different. 

as far as everything else. I wish you all the best in the future, well done for hanging in there. and keep us updated please =)


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## jacinta78 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks Nes88c. 
I found out that some people can be very vicious on here. But if you can get over that there are so many wonderful helpful people that don't want to judge they just want to help. 
Aladdin is on the mend and is looking like he is going to shed so I will photograph him soon as he does. Hoping he will look a lot better once he does. I know he is a lot more active now he has had a feed so I'm so happy about that.
Thanks again


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## Gruni (Apr 5, 2012)

He'd be due for another feed in the next couple of days won't he Jacinta? It'll be interesting to see how eager he is to take it.


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## jacinta78 (Apr 5, 2012)

I will try him again tomorrow Gruni. I will be interested to see if he eats  fingers crossed!!!!!



Gruni said:


> He'd be due for another feed in the next couple of days won't he Jacinta? It'll be interesting to see how eager he is to take it.


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## thomasssss (Apr 5, 2012)

hows the hole healing up ?


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## Fantazmic (Apr 5, 2012)

yes would love some more news


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## CaptainRatbag (Apr 6, 2012)

I just read the whole thread too :shock: Wow, an epic... you poor thing jacinta! (and your snake too) One thing I have been wanting to comment on all along, is his toung flicking properly? (out up and down back in again) If they are dehydrated or really sick the toung flicking stops.

Also, a (1 single) fuzzy?? that wouldnt be a feed for him? If I were you, I would be feeding him 5 fuzzies.... if he will eat one, feed him heaps (til he gets better) If he has been living on 1 fuzzy a feed, he might be starving? That could be why he is healing slow? Just a thought, not a criticism.

When you feed a snake, the food can be the size of the girth of the snakes stomach (or a little bigger), dont go by the size of its head (sometimes it looks like he is putting a volkwagen into a sleeping bag :lol. Looking at the pic earlier (of the healing hole) I would have thought he was feeding on weaners at least. I realise he had a sore mouth (so small food for ease of eating) but I am sure he needs more than 1 fuzzy a feed? If your snake eats say, young adults for example, and you are out and only have say, fuzzies, you have to feed the snake the same weight of fuzzies as the young adult would weigh) How is his mouth now by the way? How is the hole now?

If I were you, jacinta, I would get a packet of fuzzies (if his mouth is still sore, if its better, some weaners) and let him eat as many as he can take, then give him plenty of heat (30-32 degrees) If he has only been getting one fuzzy every month (on average with his non eating periods) he might be very weak.... feed him up... IMO

Good luck, please give us an update soon


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## Gruni (Apr 6, 2012)

Bear in mind Ratbag that Aladin has been a fussy eater so the fact that he took anything is a big step forward. You may also want to explain how to know when to offer the next food item. My guy hides while/after he has started to swallow the food, so when I have double fed him I gave him one at lunchtime and the next one when he was a bit active that evening, but that is just because of his behaviour. My mate feeds his once the food bump is all the way down so about twenty minutes after the first item has entered the mouth.


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## jacinta78 (Apr 6, 2012)

Ratbag the first time he ate after being sick was 2 fuzzy's. i know it wasn't enough but it was all he would take so I was happy. Last week when he ate it was 2 small rats. Well and truly enough for him. His tongue slowed down yes as he was very dehydrated.

UPDATE ON ALADDIN....... He is still shedding as his skin was so bad it did not come off in one nice piece. But OMG the most of him that has lost all shed looks 200% better. He is very active and looks great. the tongue is going a million miles an hour. I offered him some more food today, but he just got pissed off with me, he didn't want it. His hole is healing well. it is just like smooth skin on a human now, at least there is no hole  View attachment 246164


and the fact that he was getting cranky at me shows improvement to. but heh didn't want me taking his photo so its not a good shot of him sorryView attachment 246165


So there is is, out of trouble and looking totally beautiful again. Will start playing with him again soon 

Thank you to everyone who helped me out and was concerned for Aladdin.


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## Gruni (Apr 6, 2012)

Your attachments didn't work Jacinta, try editing your post or try a new post and use the 'Go Advanced' button and use the manage attachments option, then bottom left press 'Insert Innline'.

That is great news on the whole, he certainly seems to be out of the woods. Have a look through some of the threads about 'retained shed' you may need to help him a bit as it is critical that no bands of shed are left behind to restrict bloodflow.

So cool to have a happy ending to this story. 8)


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## jacinta78 (Apr 6, 2012)

Gruni, for some reason i can't get photos to load, when i went back to edit it says they are fine. anyway i have put them in the album on my personal page so you can see them.

I will look at the shed threads. thanks


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## CaptainRatbag (Apr 6, 2012)

Thats great jacinta, good news  Did the vet ever say exactly what he suspected it was? Was it a burn or an injury that went septic? Glad he is well on the mend tho 

Gruni, I ran out of small adult rats for my 4 big ones, I only had a bag of fuzzies, so they each got 3 :lol: (they thought it was christmas) When I feed multiples, I wait for the first to go down and the snake puts its jaw back together.... then offer the next.... and so on. The reason I wait til they have re-assembled thier jaw, is so they dont strike at the next rat with the jaw bones out of place and knock something on the follow thru and risk damaging thier jaw.

All of my snakes scoff thier rats like there is no tomorrow, right there where they strike and coil it.... :shock: sometimes hanging half off a branch or half in a hide. (lets say.... they arent particularly fussy eaters):lol:

Usually after even the biggest feed, they tend to go hunting, just in case they missed something... before retiring to the hide for a nice warm sleep.

If yours are a bit fussy, you can try wetting the rats head (helps it slide down the hatch) or try wetting the whole rat. (evidently the rat tastes different when wet? I don't know, havent tried) Or if you are feeding wet rats or heads now, try giving dry rats? Just do some experimenting to see if you can get snakes interested. Even poke the rats head from between rocks or shrubbery and make the snake think it has to 'catch' this victim....this might inspire a more direct feeding response


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## jacinta78 (Apr 6, 2012)

_​Thanks for the info ratbag._


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