# Cannibalistic Rats..?



## Miss B (Apr 27, 2008)

Is it normal for rats to cannibalise one another? :shock:

I've got two tubs of rats - one has a M/F pair, the other has a M/F/F trio.

This morning I found the female in the pair dead. The male has ripped into her abdominal cavity and consumed the entire contents - there's literally nothing left.

All the rats get bio-mare cubes and table scraps. Is this behaviour common? :|


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## Jen (Apr 27, 2008)

they might need more protein, maybe milk powder mixed with their food, i used to give mine dog biscuits too.


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## beeman (Apr 27, 2008)

I would say NO, we havent had anything like that happen and we run
250 rats in the system, Dont even have a prob with them eating thier young
at all


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## Nikki. (Apr 27, 2008)

Sometime last year, when i was 10 i was breeding hundreds of mice as pets and then i'd sell them at the petshop.But one day i found a mouse half eaten  I dont know :shock: I think it may be possible


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## Miss B (Apr 27, 2008)

Weird.

Beeman, what do you feed your rats?


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 27, 2008)

Nikki elmo, Do petstores let kids sell them animals like mice and rats?
cheers,
Will


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## MatE (Apr 27, 2008)

Once the males have done there job i take them out the females get very protective if they have new borns.Ive had a female rat,which i think had mastitis(spelling)eat her own stomach contents.As there wasnt another animal in with her.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 27, 2008)

When I used to breed rats for my snakes, I would kill any rat that showed any sign of aggression towards the other rats. Of course a nip would be excused but killing another would not be tolerated. I would knock the male on the head and feed him to your snakes. Just an opinion.


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## Nikki. (Apr 27, 2008)

Well my dad has heaps of best friends who work and own The Pet Centre at Birkenhead .At first i wasnt supposed to breed them i just happened to have a male and female and it started getting out of control.I once made $40 out of 56 or something


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 27, 2008)

how hard did you have to hit it?


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## beeman (Apr 27, 2008)

Hey miss b,
All our rats and mice get feed gr2 rat and mouse pellets and dog cubes
and thats all, we have constant litters of both rats and mice, thier growth rates are good 
and we do seperate the females after mating into thier own tubs. we do this with both the rats and the mice


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 27, 2008)

Nikki_Elmo said:


> Well my dad has heaps of best friends who work and own The Pet Centre at Birkenhead .At first i wasnt supposed to breed them i just happened to have a male and female and it started getting out of control.I once made $40 out of 56 or something



At this price I'd be very surprised if the petshop would know Nikki_Elmo back. Buy them for 71 cents each and sell them for 3-4 dollars - 500% markup straight away.

I think a balanced diet (more protein might help) but I'd still knock the rat on the head.


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## Drazzy (Apr 27, 2008)

Miss B said:


> Is it normal for rats to cannibalise one another? :shock:
> 
> I've got two tubs of rats - one has a M/F pair, the other has a M/F/F trio.
> 
> ...



I use to breed rats and some of the breeders (females) would eat their own and even attack /nibble on the other sub adults, I think some are just bad eggs, fed them dog biscuits and sunflower seeds for milk production.


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## JungleRob (Apr 27, 2008)

Ash, I had the mums eating rat pups when I was using Bio-Mare Cubes. I've switched to Organic Rodent Pellets from Samford Produce and it hasn't happened again.


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## bredli_lover (Apr 27, 2008)

We've had dad eating pups...but never eating the mum. We've also had females kill females..


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 27, 2008)

at my old school we used cat biscuts with 2 males didn't fight each other, though they had been together since they were babys and they were brothers


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 27, 2008)

I've had my share of rat murderers ... only one place for them straight in the freezer.

Cull out the cannibals. 

Lack of protein could be the problem try feeding a good quality dry dog food, veggies like pumpkin skin/seeds and broccoli stalks and a bit of wild bird seed, my rats love cabbage leaves.


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## MrBredli (Apr 27, 2008)

I think it is quite likely the female died before the male began eating her. Did she have any other marks on her to indicate she may have been attacked (or does the male have any injuries on his body)? Once a rodent has died it is not uncommon for a mouse or rat to feed on the body, especially if they have no water or have an incomplete diet. The female, if under attack, would have been able to put up a hell of a fight so it would not have been an easy task for the male to have killed her. I'd be looking for other possible causes for the death.


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 27, 2008)

willia6 said:


> how hard did you have to hit it?


 
There is nothing to gain by posting un necessary posts. Try make constructive posts beneficial to the forum.

I agree with Mr Bredli. I have never heard of male rats killing females. I'm guessing she died perhaps from over breeding.


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## Australis (Apr 27, 2008)

Males are a lot bigger than females, just a thought.


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## foxysnake (Apr 27, 2008)

Well, always found in my experience of breeding rats, that cannibalism seems to happen mostly due to different feeds, as well as mothers seem keen to eat weaker/or dead pups. I got told along time ago the negatives of feeding cat/dog biscuits to rats - something about the excessive salt levels in those feeds, and over time how that can build up in your snake causing complications. Something Ive never and would never risk my snakes with. At the mo, feed rats and mice a combination of pig pellets, rat pellets, and a horse feed. Also back up with vitamins that are added to their water and have no trouble whatsoever anymore.

I have also added new females and/or males to a breeding tank with hardly any problem, also raised 'pups' wit Mum, in a common tank, with only a cpl of deaths of pups, with the mum eating them. They always seem to the smaller and weakest of the pups however. Only saying this info, as for years, had problems wit females being eaten, pups and males, even when I had separated the females from common tank while they were preggers to prevent cannibalism of the young.

But, would just like to add, these are but my experiences, each to thier own, work with what works best for you.

Cheers,
Dee.


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## Miss B (Apr 27, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions peeps.



mcloughlin2 said:


> I'm guessing she died perhaps from over breeding.



Not possible. She'd only had one litter previously.

MrBredli, I can't say for sure that it was the male that killed the female. I didn't see any other obvious marks on her body and the male does not appear to have suffered any injuries. Having said that, she definately wasn't showing any signs of illness beforehand - last night she was as happy and active as ever. Although I did wonder how exactly he could have killed her, I imagine if he ripped into her stomach she probably would have ran around and made quite a mess dripping blood everywhere. But there was no mess in the tub - just one disemboweled rat corpse.

Either way, I think I will cull the male just to be sure. And I might add some rat/mouse cubes and dog kibble to the bio-mare.


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## Kimbully (May 1, 2008)

I agree with Mr Bredli, he would have started eating her after she died. It sounds like it was just a sudden death, nothing obvious (maybe stroke etc who knows?). I work in the research industry with rats and mice and it isn't uncommon at all for them to eat each other once they have died. They are opportunists who can't go past a meat snack! It is normal rodent behaviour. 
I have never known/heard of a male rat killing a female in my experience. They are quite social animals in general.
On a unrelated topic, biomare may not quite fulfil the dietary requirements as horses don't eat meat and rats do (omnivorous), so some dog kibble would be a good addition and tasty treat! The rat/mouse cubes are a complete diet and good for their teeth too. JMO and experiences

Kim


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## Helikaon (May 1, 2008)

i just weaned a few miss b, i can grow a few up for you if you like to replace them.


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## Miss B (May 1, 2008)

Thanks for the advice kimbully.

Helikaon; that would be great - I'll talk to you about it at work


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## jay76 (May 1, 2008)

I had a problem with that a few months ago and I started putting mixed grain through the feed and it has stopped now.


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## mckellar007 (May 1, 2008)

i had a similar thing happen to me earlier this week, i thought the male must have killed her, but after reading mr bredli's post im thinking he chewed through her throat after she died. yet, in another one of my breeding tubs, the male died and had no wounds at all. maybe he just hadn''t been dead long enough for her to start feeding on him....


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