# Snake I.D



## woody101 (Mar 1, 2013)

Hey Everyone I was looking at my feed on Facebook and a friend of mine was tagged in this photo ( not the one holding the snake ). The guy said its a common tree snake but I strongly disagree I'm not trying to name and shame him on his I.D skill but I told him to be careful in picking up animals he cant I.D as its very dangerous. And illegal

What do you think. Very bad photo's but you can tell from the body its not a green tree snake and the face doesnt look anything like a tree snake. It was found Gardner's falls QLD sunny coast.

I say its a Whip snake of some sort.

I was just informed he was also bitten! By this snake while trying to hold it. This was last year and he is fine he got quite sick from the bite my friend said.

He learnt his lesson and is VERY lucky to be here still because if it was something more dangerous he probably wouldnt be here.


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## Echiopsis (Mar 1, 2013)

woody101 said:


> Hey Everyone I was looking at my feed on Facebook and a friend of mine was tagged in this photo ( not the one holding the snake ). The guy said its a common tree snake but I strongly disagree I'm not trying to name and shame him on his I.D skill but I told him to be careful in picking up animals he cant I.D as its very dangerous. And illegal
> 
> What do you think. Very bad photo's but you can tell from the body its not a green tree snake and the face doesnt look anything like a tree snake. It was found Gardner's falls QLD sunny coast.
> 
> ...



Nothing I can make out in those crappy pics makes me doubt the initial ID.


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## Bushman (Mar 1, 2013)

It's very hard to tell from those photographs. I don't suppose you have any better pics??


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## woody101 (Mar 1, 2013)

Yeah I know crappy photo's I hit the person up who took the photo's for more if I get some ill post.


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## Bushman (Mar 1, 2013)

OK, no worries. Without better pics I can't make a call on it.


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## richoman_3 (Mar 1, 2013)

what sickness did he feel?

it looks like a common tree snake to me?
with a mean elapid looking head haha


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## GeckPhotographer (Mar 1, 2013)

> This was last year and he is fine he got quite sick from the bite my friend said.


Assuming this is correct it's not a Green Tree.


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## Dendrobates (Mar 1, 2013)

It's looks like a Common Tree Snake to me? Nothing about that snake makes me think otherwise. Head shape and colour look like punctulata, locality says that nothing in that area even looks similar.


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## richoman_3 (Mar 1, 2013)

Skinks said:


> It's looks like a Common Tree Snake to me?



dont copy my comment!

are you sure he even got sick and isnt overexaggerating?


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## Venomous1111 (Mar 1, 2013)

It looks unidentifiable to me.....


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## noved (Mar 1, 2013)

looks nothing like a common tree snake


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## Dendrobates (Mar 1, 2013)

noved said:


> looks nothing like a common tree snake



why?


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## richoman_3 (Mar 1, 2013)

Skinks said:


> Please enlighten us as to why?



because its not green


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## noved (Mar 1, 2013)

Skinks said:


> Please enlighten us as to why?



the upper body is way to thick and coloration is all wrong..


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 1, 2013)

With those ventrals, no way is that a CTS. 

While it does appear more robust than a CTS without a whole body view you could not say for sure. In a similar respect, the head seems thicker than you would expect of a GTS but you would need a focussed image to say for sure. On a CTS that is agitated, you would expect the neck region to be inflated and showing some blue flecks between scales. There appears to be a scale lifting behind the thumb and you would expect some glint of blue skin underneath but it is all dark. From what can be seen of the tail the body obviously tapers slowly at the rear end.

The only snake in that area that I can pin down with a white chin and dark grey ventrals, is _Demansia vestigiata_ (Lesser Black Whipsnake). That would fit with the bite symptoms, the thin tapering tail end and black skin between the scales. Holding the snake in the manner he is, I am not the least bit surprised he was bitten. He should give up handling snakes or have his epitaph chiselled out now… “but I thought it was a common tree snake!”

Blue


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## Dendrobates (Mar 1, 2013)

Large CTS's can be very robust snakes with stocky heads. The dark colour forms also don't have the typical blue flecks between the scales (which show when they puff themselves up defensively). The ventrals on the snake in the picture also don't look any different to an average common tree snake? Lesser black whips tend to have a fully brown head fading back into darker brown/black, they don't have a dark top of head with white lower jaw. Gardner's Falls where the snake was found also doesn't fit the habitat that black whips occupy, especially in the Sunny Coast hinterland where they are almost unheard of. He also claims to have gotten sick from the bite, from personal observations Demansia bites don't cause sickness but just a lot of localised pain?

I'm not saying I'm right, just offering a different opinion.


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## richoman_3 (Mar 1, 2013)

Well said skink lover!

Common tree snakes grow very robust when theyre older and thats just a perfect example of one big epic tree snake!
And as skinks said ive never heard of a lesser whip down there... and giving up snake handling from one bite? bit harsh lol


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## Ramsayi (Mar 1, 2013)

richoman_3 said:


> .. and giving up snake handling from one bite? bit harsh lol


More to do with the way it was being held.If that doesn't get corrected he will keep being bitten,hence the "giving up" comment.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 1, 2013)

*Skinks*,
You would know more about the whips there than I, although I have seen photos of some with dark heads all over. I am going to disagree with you on the ventrals, as shown, being representative of CTS, even dark forms. However, when I look at the overall photo it has a distinctly “blue caste” which means that it is not rendering real life colours accurately. On that basis I might likely be wrong. 

As for the bite and getting sick. He may have picked up a 24 hour bug – just coincidence. Any Demansia bite would develop localised symptoms at the site of envenomation and then there may be a systemic reaction, only known to occur with large specimens. 

*Richoman* – put the comment in context please. It was a humorous way to get across a serious message i.e. don’t handle until you learn how to do it properly. One small brown is all it takes… 

Blue


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## noved (Mar 1, 2013)

richoman_3 said:


> Well said skink lover!
> 
> Common tree snakes grow very robust when theyre older and thats just a perfect example of one big epic tree snake!
> And as skinks said ive never heard of a lesser whip down there... and giving up snake handling from one bite? bit harsh lol


um im not exactly sure if we are looking at the same pics ....a epic robust large specimen of a cts would have to be 6 foot plus..... the snake i am looking at isnt that long


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## jase75 (Mar 1, 2013)

Its not a great pic but if I had to take a guess based on those pics I would say it could be a Tiger. I know they are not common on the Sunshine coast but the head looks like a Tiger Snake. Its not a CTS, its body is way to robust.

Sent from my XT925 using Tapatalk 2


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## GeckPhotographer (Mar 2, 2013)

I agree with those who say NOT a GTS, for starters it is brown in colour, not blue, or black like you seem to think, look at the picture it looks brown, even with the entire picture being tinged blue it still looks brown.


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## PythonLegs (Mar 2, 2013)

Any snake bite can make you sick..anaphylaxis, viral infections, anti coagulants..just because it's not 'venemous', doesnt mean letting it bite you is a smart idea.


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## NicG (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm by no means a snake identification expert, but my first instinct is that it's not a CTS, mainly because of the ventrals.

These are the ventrals of a six foot CTS ...


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## r3ptilian (Mar 7, 2013)

I'd Say Lesser Black Whip, I know a man that was bitten by one on the hand, the bite caused localised swelling with pain shooting up the arm and swelling of the lymph nodes under the arm. He also experienced a mild headache and lethargy.
The bite occurred at Tamborine Village.


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## eipper (Mar 7, 2013)

Your not getting a reliable I.d from those shots.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 7, 2013)

I acknowledge what you are saying there Scott and why. However the question that the OP put forward is whether or not it is a CTS. So irrespective of identifying the actual species, the central question is do the features shown support the contention of the species being, or likely to be, a common tree snake? 

Blue


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## $NaKe PiMp (Mar 8, 2013)

looks like a blurry poo snake to me from those pics


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## Echiopsis (Mar 8, 2013)

You cant make out the keels on the ventrals or much else for that matter. When the pics are that bad I tend to just take the word of the bloke handling it (he was there) and forget about it.


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## reptalica (Mar 8, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> More to do with the way it was being held.If that doesn't get corrected he will keep being bitten,hence the "giving up" comment.



I was kinda thinking the same. That guy holding the snake must have been a wrestler in a previous life as it looks like a good old fashioned "sleeper hold" for mine.

No wonder he got a nip.


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