# Pin-Head or not?



## Davo66 (Jun 22, 2006)

Hi ppl,
I have read many threads regarding the ill effects of power feeding, I have a question about one of the negative results of such practices, Pin-head snakes. Is there a set standard for a snakes head size? or is it purely what the owner considers attractive or not? If a young snakes head is proportionaly too small for it's rapidly growing body will it's head catch up once the snake reaches maturity and the growth process slows down? and at what age do coastal carpets develope their characterictic large head proportions? I am assuming around maturiy,(3-4 years).
any opinions on this subject would be greatly appreciated, without re-hashing previous threads, lol
Cheers, Davo


----------



## AnteUp (Jun 22, 2006)

I just wouldn't power feed any snake, because I would rather it to grow steadily over the first few years and live for a long time than a snake that grows huge in its first 1-2 years and dies at the ripe old age of 9. :roll:


----------



## waruikazi (Jun 22, 2006)

I think that "pin heads" are only relative to the size of a snakes body. Most of those pin headed snakes if they are slimmed down start to look alot more in proportion. But that said i do not know when a snakes head stops maturing.


----------



## SnakeWrangler (Jun 22, 2006)

I have asked for general size guidelines before but no-one seemed keen, hopefully you will have more luck. I just want something to use to measure my snakes progress against, if people would do a quick measurement of their snakes and post the info with species, age and the measurements we could start to get a general idea of what is "normal".

Maybe there is some published info about wild snakes and their sizes and approximate ages?

Personally I think people need to define what they think is power feeding. I don't believe that snakes would eat one large meal every week or two in the wild, maybe during the colder months, but when food is plentiful I reckon they eat whenever they come across something to eat. I reckon more frequent smaller meals would be better for a snake than infrequent large meals... IMO.


----------



## Magpie (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm yet to see a pic of a "pin-head" aussie snake.


----------



## Davo66 (Jun 22, 2006)

Maybe it isn't a caseof Pin-Head snakes but fat gutted snakes!!! :wink:


----------



## C'baoth (Jun 22, 2006)

A Python can eat itself to death . A friend of mine had a wild Coastal enter his garage &amp; feast on a great many rats from his breeding colony . Aparently it looked like a rolling pin . He picked it up carefully ( like a solid tree branch ) &amp; placed it in a spare enclosure til it had passed all of its meal . That was the last meal it could hold down . It died a couple of months later


----------



## waruikazi (Jun 22, 2006)

That's what i reckon is out of proportion, the guts no the head. like in this pic, i don't think she is pin headed but i think you get what i am trying to show


----------



## hairyman (Jun 22, 2006)

As a first time keeper i have wondered this myself. I have a maccy 4 mounths old who has 1 pinkie every 4-5 days.
Is that to much should i slow it down to 6-7days, or is that about right for young ones


----------



## waruikazi (Jun 22, 2006)

That is about what i fed mine. so i would say that is fine.


----------



## kwaka_80 (Jun 22, 2006)

ball python is a good example the are usually alot larger towards the middle


----------



## waruikazi (Jun 22, 2006)

But that is just the body type of a ball, you wont find one that does not look sort of pin headed.


----------



## waruikazi (Jun 22, 2006)

IMO


----------



## Slateman (Jun 22, 2006)

my 4 month old hatchies eat one feed a week.


----------



## kwaka_80 (Jun 22, 2006)

yeah i think he wanted to know what pin headed was.. i gave him a good example


----------



## Davo66 (Jun 22, 2006)

As far as I can gather it is normal for sub-adult carpets, (2-3 years) to have a proportionally smaller head then their adult conterparts, IMO, this may cause some keepers to under feed their younger animals in order to restore a larger head to body ratio and in doing so deprive the animal of it's full growth, (within healthy limits) potential.
I apologise for repeating this particular question but can any person out there tell me at what size or age does carpet python's heads develope it's large, bulky appearance?


----------



## snakegal (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: RE: Pin-Head or not?*

That could also be due to the stress of being a wild snake and then all of a sudden being enclosed in captivity. Maybe it was a very old snake and not far off death anyway?

Also in the wild, this snake would have probably used a fair amount of the energy from those rats in regulating body processes and through movement (exercise). In the enclosure that energy would have just been stored and therefore maybe in a captive situation this kills where in nature it wouldn't. In the wild they have a chance to burn that energy. So maybe your friend unknowingly and indirectly killed it... That's aside from the fact that no snake in the wild will come across feasts like that. 




C'baoth said:


> A Python can eat itself to death . A friend of mine had a wild Coastal enter his garage &amp; feast on a great many rats from his breeding colony . Aparently it looked like a rolling pin . He picked it up carefully ( like a solid tree branch ) &amp; placed it in a spare enclosure til it had passed all of its meal . That was the last meal it could hold down . It died a couple of months later


----------



## NoOne (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: RE: Pin-Head or not?*



Magpie said:


> I'm yet to see a pic of a "pin-head" aussie snake.



Same here mags......you would think with all of us 'power feeders' there would be some but there just isn't :roll: :lol:


----------



## snakegal (Jun 28, 2006)

If someone has a picture of what they would class as a pin head, please post it up. :wink: Curious to see


----------



## nvenm8 (Jun 28, 2006)

snakegal said:


> If someone has a picture of what they would class as a pin head, please post it up. :wink: Curious to see



JMO  
.


----------



## Mr_Matt (Jun 28, 2006)

That is one fine example of a pin head caused by over-feeding in the sewing cabinet.


----------



## elapid68 (Jun 28, 2006)

Davo said:


> Maybe it isn't a caseof Pin-Head snakes but fat gutted snakes!!! :wink:



Believe it or not , she's looking alot better than what she was, she's been on a diet for four years!. Previous owner powerfed and she could hardly bend. She was HUGE :shock: 
She hadn't been fed for three months when the photo was taken.


----------



## JEZ (Jun 28, 2006)

Now this is a pin head!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself!!


----------



## jessop (Jun 28, 2006)

hellraiser!!!! love it Jez!

back on topic though, i too am worried my diamond will end up with a pin head... proportionally his head is way too small for his girth and length. i certainly don't over feed him, he is on small rats every 14 days max (though i been told to feed him once to twice a week which i don't think is natural or healthy), so i am wondering if this 'pinhead' thing could be genetic in some cases... my diamond is about 2y.o so i'm hoping that his head catches up to his body at that 3-4y.o mark.


----------



## jessop (Jun 28, 2006)

either way, could it be that there is a 'pinhead gene' for snakes? some kind of recessive trait? or is it purely due to power feeding or other circumstances? i mean i love my diamond either way, pinhead or not so i don't really care unless it is going to affect his health. Does having a pinhead mean a shorter life? health issues?


----------



## jessop (Jun 28, 2006)

BUMP! so anyone know if it could be genetic? or is it definately diet related?


----------



## jessop (Jun 28, 2006)

Ok i take it no one knows so i did some research and found this...

"Not surprisingly snakes kept at higher temperatures tend to eat and slough more than their cooler counterparts. Maximum growth in young specimens is achieved by keeping them relatively warm and feeding them as much as possible (although preferably in lots of smaller feedings rather than irregular large feedings, which are more likely to result in digestive problems). Some fast growing -Specimens seem to get 'pin-head syndrome' which merely refers to the body appearing to grow at a faster rate than the head, resulting in a head appearing abnormally small for a snake of a given size. Ectoparasites, skin disorders and humidity problems can all lead to an accelerated sloughing rate."


----------

