# Handling Venomous Snakes, What's Your Opinion?



## dylan-rocks (Jul 23, 2011)

As title says, handling venomous snakes, what's your opinion?


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## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

I personally wouldn't risk it but if you want to do it, go ahead, but make sure you can 'read' the snake's movements. Which is generally hard for _elapidae_.


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## snakes123 (Jul 23, 2011)

I dont really handle snakes as i dont have any, but when i am going to get vens yes i would handle them just be allot more alert and aware of their body.


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## grizz (Jul 23, 2011)

if your talking wild elapids, its like boogas... pick'em but don't tell anyone!

you already know if you will or do, just carry bandages!


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## Varanus1 (Jul 23, 2011)

grizz said:


> if your talking wild elapids, its like boogas... pick'em but don't tell anyone!
> 
> you already know if you will or do, just carry bandages!



Ahaha, that's hilarious. Will have to remember that one


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## timantula (Jul 23, 2011)

havent got elapids...yet, but i do plan on adding some to my collection and after ive had some training with them i do plan on a handle here and there.......maybe.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 23, 2011)

> but make sure you can 'read' the snake's movements. Which is generally hard for _elapidae_.



You don't know what your talking about. 

Elapids can be handled safetly if you are trained right, or have just been around snakes for a long time and you use your head. 
It takes longer than a two day crash course. You won't learn the motor-skills or the right habits in two days.


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## dylan-rocks (Jul 23, 2011)

i personally in the future if i do get a elapid or elapids <---most likely , i would use hook mainly and i would slowly build up the confidence with them to touch and hold them up by their tales
p.s i want a colletts snake, if anyone wants to buy me one


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## anna.jc (Jul 24, 2011)

... **** that!


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jul 24, 2011)

opinions on handling ven snakes??

they may vary,and quite often the least skilled ,least confident and least experianced are the most often to share there opinion.

what sort of opinions you looking for ?? lol


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## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

I'd like to do a course after I get more experienced handling pythons, to tail and bag elapids (not to turn into a regular thing, just for the experience of the course). I doubt I'd ever be game enough to free handle one. 

I don't think people that do free handle are stupid, I think they are just really experienced, and it makes for really good youtubing


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## [email protected] (Jul 24, 2011)

my opinion is just be responsible for your own actions and be prepared for the worse.....
There not toys or are they lol


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## Firepac (Jul 24, 2011)

As a licensed relocator handling wild vens is part of a days work. As was previously said you can't learn in a 2 day course, sure you can get a grasp of the basic techniques but it takes a lot of exposure to vens to be able to understand the animal and learn their behaviour, read their body language and predict their reaction. It takes time and practice.


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## cleobhp (Jul 24, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> I personally wouldn't risk it but if you want to do it, go ahead, but make sure you can 'read' the snake's movements. Which is generally hard for _elapidae_.


 Actually reading an elapids body language is a lot easier than reading a pythons body language, we free handle our elapids all the time and I would trust my RBB over my BHP and water python any day.


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## Boidae (Jul 24, 2011)

Gotta love ven handling threads 

Just a tip though. Get an adult, they will be much easier to handle (with or without a hook) due to their larger body size. Chances are they will also be much calmer than a juvenile snake.

I would say that when you are feeling confident with the snake, and if you are ready to accept the fact that you could be bitten, then go for it!


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 24, 2011)

$NaKe PiMp said:


> opinions on handling ven snakes??
> 
> they may vary,and quite often the least skilled ,least confident and least experianced are the most often to share there opinion.
> 
> what sort of opinions you looking for ?? lol



LOL, thats a bit unfair (but I get where your coming from). I fit into that category and think it means I'm quite qualified to voice an opinion, purely because, as a new handler (1 year relocating not keeping) I understand how quickly you realize your limitations.
After doing a course I got my relocators license, I also have access and on occasion have helped and/or watched others dealing with Elapids in captivity, medicating, sexing etc. I mostly deal with Dugites and Tigers.
Am I ready to keep Elapids? No. I could probably scrape along and learn as I go but at the end of the day they're not to be taken lightly and I'm still not prepared to jump in the deep end.
I've often said in similar threads (best begginner Elapids) etc that the best snake is somebody elses, it's not something that can be picked up overnight.
The OP leaves room for enterpretation if by handling he meant free handling ( like you would a python), some do it, I personally don't and wouldn't and I don't like to see it condoned and/or encouraged publicly. 
If he meant handling as in hook, tail, head etc, then at some point it will be unavoidable in a captive situation.


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## varanus (Jul 24, 2011)

I had a few blacks which were trustworthy to handle.. but I wouldn't go further than that. Risk factor, is each to their own.


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## Firepac (Jul 24, 2011)

A friend had a pair of colletts (the parents of the juvie in my avatar) that could be free handled easily. I personally handled them on several occasions and never felt that I was in danger of a bite. Colletts are probably the most placid of the Black Snake family but having said that I would actively discourage people from doing it. Nowadays I restrict my handling of vens to ones needing relocation and then usually only to tailing.


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## zuesowns (Jul 24, 2011)

leave it to the pro's - my opinion.


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## mammino90 (Jul 24, 2011)

if ur unhappy with ur life sure handel them but if u have kids or a misses or boyfriend i dont think it would be smart enless u had anti venem lol


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## scorps (Jul 24, 2011)

This depends on what you refer to as 'handling' do you mean with a snake hook? Tailing? or free handling? or what ever other method you would like.

All are very different methods and also depend on the species

Ben


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

zuesowns said:


> leave it to the pro's - my opinion.


yea but ya gotta start at the bottom to become a pro....

when im handling my water python i treat him like he's hot.. 1, because he's kranky and 2, because its good training for when i do get ven's..


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## waruikazi (Jul 24, 2011)

Don't bother, their behaviour doesn't correlate even in the slightest.

I was a pro within a day of doing a course. Jumping in the deep end is the only way to do it!



timantula said:


> yea but ya gotta start at the bottom to become a pro....
> 
> when im handling my water python i treat him like he's hot.. 1, because he's kranky and 2, because its good training for when i do get ven's..


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## hilly (Jul 24, 2011)

mammino90 said:


> if ur unhappy with ur life sure handel them but if u have kids or a misses or boyfriend i dont think it would be smart enless u had anti venem lol



anti venom should only be administered by medical professionals upon positive result in a venom detection kit test and with the provision of life support.


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Don't bother, their behaviour doesn't correlate even in the slightest.
> 
> I was a pro within a day of doing a course. Jumping in the deep end is the only way to do it!


i agree jumping in at the deep end.... but im only still a bit of a noobie to snakes.. i had a great fear of them untill 2yrs ago.. now ive got 7 pythons so while my water is totally different from elapids it dosent hurt to do some training on him just to learn better skills of handling without being tagged,, mr water loves the cheap shots..lol


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## waruikazi (Jul 24, 2011)

Thing is though, you can't stop a python coming back on themselves if you tail them because of their body and muscles. But if you know how to do, most elapids are pretty easy.



timantula said:


> i agree jumping in at the deep end.... but im only still a bit of a noobie to snakes.. i had a great fear of them untill 2yrs ago.. now ive got 7 pythons so while my water is totally different from elapids it dosent hurt to do some training on him just to learn better skills of handling without being tagged,, mr water loves the cheap shots..lol


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## GeckPhotographer (Jul 24, 2011)

Everybody seems to forget the elapids like Simoselaps, Vermicella, Brachyurophis, etc . Burrowing placid snakes that have trouble biting and next to no real effect when they do so.  

Personally I would love to hold some of the milder elapids (whips snakes, Furina's, etc.) but never any of the Pseudonaja, Pseudechis, Notechis, etc. groups. That said I would love to do a handling course which included these sorts of species, I think it would be a great experience and whether you are going to be a relocater or not the understanding of these snakes even through just a two day course could turn out invaluable.


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## dihsmaj (Jul 24, 2011)

I love those Brachyurophis Geck. Stunning snakes, especially the Australian Coral.


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## waruikazi (Jul 24, 2011)

When i say pro i'm not saying i was good at it, just that it became my profession very quickly lol.


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## moosenoose (Jul 24, 2011)

I find a few drinks beforehand helps


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> I find a few drinks beforehand helps



bit of liquid courage never goes astray


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## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> I find a few drinks beforehand helps



A few more after you get tagged wouldn't go astray, either


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

Farma said:


> bit of liquid courage never goes astray


lol nar blow away a big fatty, then you'd be nice and relaxed..


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## Chris (Jul 24, 2011)

I love my pythons but have no desire at all, ever, to handle or keep anything that has the potential to cause me any sort of injury other than teeth marks.


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## AllThingsReptile (Jul 24, 2011)

well, from experience, talking about handling vens gets you flamed, so im staying out if this


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

lizardboii said:


> well, from experience, talking about handling vens gets you flamed, so im staying out if this


they only flame because they havent got the balls,respect,and knowledge to do it themselves and are prob jealous of those who can and do handle them..


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## Rooboy15 (Jul 24, 2011)

I have had a few occasions of dugites and a couple with tigers being caught up in bird netting and in one instace a fishing net,. Not handling in some manner is impossible in these situations, I like to tube the heads if I can and if not the head hold while the net is cut away. 
Must use one hand only though as the I don't want to spill the beer.


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 24, 2011)

timantula said:


> they only flame because they havent got the balls,respect,and knowledge to do it themselves and are prob jealous of those who can and do handle them..



Often people flame because the comments are stupid and if taken seriously could lead to someone making a dumb mistake and possibly ending up dead. 
I Vaguely remembers Lizardbois thread and there was some silly comments that needed to be shot down.


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

yea i guess you have a valid point there, i havent been on this fourm long nor have i been keeping reptiles that long, 14months to be exact, but im learning who to take seriously and who not too. but after some of the comments and questions ive red on here id hate to be their reptile.


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## -Peter (Jul 24, 2011)

I love it.


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

-Peter said:


> I love it.


how??


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 24, 2011)

-Peter said:


> I love it.



What? free handling your snake? LOL


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

haha i free handle mine all the time... :lol:


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## Fergus (Jul 24, 2011)

It's like why people base jump,for the rush,to show off...mine's bigger than yours sort of thing.I love all snakes,but i would never ever want to handle a venomous animal.Really,if it's not essential, what's the point?Have you 'free handler's' ever seen the damage done by a serious envenomation?Even if you survive,some people suffer the side effects for years...nothing is worth that.I know of a young fella who was bitten by a brown snake and the venom went directly into his blood stream.Within a minute he was bleeding out of every orifice..every orifice.Now that's not cool.He was very lucky to survive and suffered permanent organ damage.
We should respect these animals... from a safe distance!I think anyone who handles one should thoroughly research the consequences of any bite,a RBB tag to the testicles would certainly leave you feeling less of a man!!!Dropsy..

Rod


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## DanTheMan (Jul 24, 2011)

As Matt said, people need to stop worrying about what others are doing for a change. Get off their high horse, take a chill pill and get over it if someone has a different technique of handling elapids. Funny thing is, that 90% of the people that do the flaming toward those that they believe are handling their elapid unsafely, have never even kept elapids.
They sit behind their keyboard stroking their bearded dragon that is yet to be named as they haven't started a thread about it yet. 

Here's my opinion


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

DanTheMan said:


> As Matt said, people need to stop worrying about what others are doing for a change. Get off their high horse, take a chill pill and get over it if someone has a different technique of handling elapids. Funny thing is, that 90% of the people that do the flaming toward those that they believe are handling their elapid unsafely, have never even kept elapids.
> They sit behind their keyboard stroking their bearded dragon that is yet to be named as they haven't started a thread about it yet.
> 
> Here's my opinion


nice work.


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## Fergus (Jul 24, 2011)

Mr Timamtula,
see my post re balls and if you really respected the animal for what it truely is,you wouldn't unnecessarily touch it,and with regards knowledge if you really had any,you'd know better.Handling a venomous snake does not make you special.


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## pythonmum (Jul 24, 2011)

My opinion is that it is not for me. They are beautiful animals, but I will never keep or handle them. The closest I have come is when a neighbour had a little RBB in her garage. Husband and I put a bucket over it, stuck some cardboard underneath and let it go in the nearby bush.

I have handled a gila monster after instruction, but that is totally different. They are very disinclined to bite and very slow. You must work hard to get bitten and all bites that I know of have been very drunk individuals taunting an animal. For those wondering - I lived in Arizona at the time and was instructed by a former wildlife officer.

I know many sensible elapid handlers who respect the animals, but I sometimes meet folks whose attitudes concern me. I hope never to be around them when they are handling a ven!


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## baxtor (Jul 24, 2011)

redhotrod said:


> Mr Timamtula,
> see my post re balls and if you really respected the animal for what it truely is,you wouldn't unnecessarily touch it,and with regards knowledge if you really had any,you'd know better.Handling a venomous snake does not make you special.


You reference your own post as if it is a valid source on the pros and cons of freehandling, it is not, it is no more than your opinion and no more or less relevent than the next persons.


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## apprenticegnome (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm getting ready to do a venomous course but I still think you get better equipped if you can spend some time handling other peoples snakes under their supervision as well. Its good to have someone looking over your shoulder when learning to point out mistakes and give tips. Everythingthing in life comes with an element of risk in it, its up to you how you whether you reduce or increase that element through your own actions. If you choose to use hook over tailing it doesn't make you a sissy or inadequately qualified just means you are working within your confidence level (no animal is 100% predictable).


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

redhotrod said:


> Mr Timamtula,
> see my post re balls and if you really respected the animal for what it truely is,you wouldn't unnecessarily touch it,and with regards knowledge if you really had any,you'd know better.Handling a venomous snake does not make you special.


hey mate perhaps you should read the thread from the start.... in my first post i clearly stated that i do not own elapids....yet... as to my 'i free handle mine all the time' i was being stupid and it was in reference to the 'trouser snake'. i will delete the comment if it upsets you that much!!!


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't think anyone actually flamed free handlers in this thread

or made a direct comment to anyone regarding free handling


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## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

Are there any videos of people free handling dangerous snakes on youtube? I've seen ssssnakemans old videos of his tiger and I think brown snake, but can't seem to find them.

Awesome pic, Dan.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 24, 2011)

Freehandling is for losers like Matt and best friends like Dan.


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## timantula (Jul 24, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Are there any videos of people free handling dangerous snakes on youtube? I've seen ssssnakemans old videos of his tiger and I think brown snake, but can't seem to find them.
> 
> Awesome pic, Dan.


yep ive seen them too, his old account was deleted along with 800 odd vids, but hes back on there now under a new username, i wont go into details on why he got deleted it seems to controversial for this fourm, as any thread started about the people envolved in this matter gets closed...


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## blakehose (Jul 24, 2011)

I enjoy your opinion Dan! Stay out of what other people are doing and let them make mistakes... eventually they will learn! (If they're not underground)


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## DanTheMan (Jul 24, 2011)

Exactly blackhose, and that person that may learn the lesson the hard way could be me, who cares.


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## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

Do you have any more pics like that, Dan? I reckon they are awesome.


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## imported_Varanus (Jul 25, 2011)

-Matt- said:


> ....elapids aren't out to kill us like most people think




And one that I've been greatful for on a few occasions. Aggressive behaviour seems often confused with defensive and I'm yet to see an elapid chase anyone, but the stories abound.


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## Chris (Jul 25, 2011)

Is the average age in this thread 19?


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## waruikazi (Jul 25, 2011)

Do you work with or keep elapids?



redhotrod said:


> It's like why people base jump,for the rush,to show off...mine's bigger than yours sort of thing.I love all snakes,but i would never ever want to handle a venomous animal.Really,if it's not essential, what's the point?Have you 'free handler's' ever seen the damage done by a serious envenomation?Even if you survive,some people suffer the side effects for years...nothing is worth that.I know of a young fella who was bitten by a brown snake and the venom went directly into his blood stream.Within a minute he was bleeding out of every orifice..every orifice.Now that's not cool.He was very lucky to survive and suffered permanent organ damage.
> We should respect these animals... from a safe distance!I think anyone who handles one should thoroughly research the consequences of any bite,a RBB tag to the testicles would certainly leave you feeling less of a man!!!Dropsy..
> 
> Rod


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## snakehandler (Jul 25, 2011)

Did anyone see snake night last thursday night? One of the states in America require 1000 hours experience with an elapid keeper before they can get a permit!!
Doing a course will start you on a very long journey of discovery, no one action will make you an expert!


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## waruikazi (Jul 25, 2011)

I dunno, i distinctly remember the moment i became a competent relocator via hook and tail.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

Sorry Dan the man but its attitudes like yours that give our hobby a bad name.
Bites and the usual media that follows aren't good for us elapid keepers.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

Doing what you like in your own home might sound okay but if it reckless actions in a private capacity has public consequenses (as serious snake bites do) , then I don't think that is okay at all.
Many people out there in the community do not want private citizens keeping venomous reptiles as pets. Responsibale behaviour by us
is a good argument. Most old fool keepers (yes like my self) have done crazy things with venomous snakes, but free handling dangerous snakes is unnecessary.


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Chris_D said:


> Is the average age in this thread 19?



What does that matter? you only have 141 posts to your name and therefore mustn't have the experience to warrant a valid comment.



waruikazi said:


> I dunno, i distinctly remember the moment i became a competent relocator via hook and tail.



I'd be interested to hear you elaborate further on this.

Exactly Dave and further more to display it and encourage it on a forum that regurlarly has people as young as 10 is just outright irresponsible. kids can't learn from their mistakes if they're dead


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## byron_moses (Jul 25, 2011)

jump in and grab it by your teeth dont be such a sook. whats the worst that could happen


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## najanaja (Jul 25, 2011)

byron_moses said:


> jump in and grab it by your teeth dont be such a sook. whats the worst that could happen




yeah mate,,, they have anti-venon these days...
if no one gets bitten all those smart scientists will be out of a job...

so do something for the Aussie economy..
get bitten by a elapid..


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## DanTheMan (Jul 25, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Exactly Dave and further more to display it and encourage it on a forum that regurlarly has people as young as 10 is just outright irresponsible. kids can't learn from their mistakes if they're dead


I'm not here to set an example and babysit others kids.


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## Waterrat (Jul 25, 2011)

-Matt- said:


> what actually constitutes irresponsible handling of venomous snakes? Is it tailing adders? Using your hands anywhere on the snake except it's tail/cloaca? Head restraining? Letting the snakes head touch your skin?... Where is the line drawn?



There is no line or categories. Common sense and experience are the key factors. I have met many herpers in my life who got bitten once, twice, several times, some are even proud of it. John McLaughlin used to milk elapids all his life and never been tagged, not once. He must have been doing something right and that's what inspires me.


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 25, 2011)

DanTheMan said:


> I'm not here to set an example and babysit others kids.



As Adults in any community it is our responsibility to set an example.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes and his example is the way HE does it. 
Everyone is different in the way they keep reptiles venomous and non venomous


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## timantula (Jul 25, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> Did anyone see snake night last thursday night? One of the states in America require 1000 hours experience with an elapid keeper before they can get a permit!!
> Doing a course will start you on a very long journey of discovery, no one action will make you an expert!


yes i watched it, and i think that one of americas better laws.... by the way ill be booking myself in for a ven handling course before the years out....


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Snakeluvver2 said:


> Yes and his example is the way HE does it.
> Everyone is different in the way they keep reptiles venomous and non venomous



Sorry, maybe I should edit my post to read. As adults in any community it is our responsibilty to try and set a "GOOD" example.


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## waruikazi (Jul 25, 2011)

steve1 said:


> I'd be interested to hear you elaborate further on this.



I wasn't taught to hook and tail with elapids, only pythons colubrids and i didn't like the method i was taught. With elapids i was taught jigger and tongs which i didn't like either but wasn't confident to do anything else. 

I ended up in a situation where i couldn't use tongs on a 4.5ft brown and had to tail it. Never looked back since.


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 25, 2011)

LOL I use tongs on occasion but my very first relocation was in an open gravelly area and the snake was really moving out, tailing was the only real option, tongs were getting caught on gravel and just generaly clumsy combined with not wanting to injure the snake. I'll be using a hoop bag this year.


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## D3pro (Jul 25, 2011)

DanTheMan said:


> Here's my opinion



Haha... awesome... and now to go and try it myself


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## DanTheMan (Jul 25, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Sorry, maybe I should edit my post to read. As adults in any community it is our responsibilty to try and set a "GOOD" example.



Like the demonstrators you see free handling Taipans in their shows? Like the documentaries on TV that show people picking up snakes in the bush? Like the role models on tv doing drugs, speeding around in cars?

Where does it end? There's a lot worse out there, I'm sure they'll be just fine.


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## Elapidae1 (Jul 25, 2011)

Nobodys perfect but it shouldn't be a reason to use other peoples actions to excuse your own.


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## imported_Varanus (Jul 25, 2011)

DanTheMan said:


> Where does it end? There's a lot worse out there, I'm sure they'll be just fine.



Where does it begin? For me and many of my close friends (and probably many other herpers on here, if they're honest) it began as kids roaming the paddocks at every opportunity, collecting and experiencing the only snakes we had available to us at the time (in Southern NSW) which happened to be larger elapid species. For many of us, this lead to greater appreciation of all things reptile, their habitats and the environment in general. I'd rather that then the latest computer game, flat screen TV or fastest wheels anyday! JMO, by the way!!


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## DanTheMan (Jul 25, 2011)

Aahh the good old days I missed out on! When if you wanted a snake, you had to do a bit of trial and error on good spots with the right habitat, and the right conditions as to where to find the snakes at the given time. In doing so, you would learn something about the captive husbandry of the desired snake/reptile.

These days, kids buy a spotted python then start a thread asking how to look after it.


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## imported_Varanus (Jul 25, 2011)

From some of your posts and pics, I don't think you (or Matt) are missing out on much! Because of herps, you guys have probably seen more of Oz than many of your peers, I'm guessing.


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## lizardking1974 (Jul 25, 2011)

*Handling Venomous snakes*

Mmmm seems lots of people have an opinion on this subject so just thought I would add my two cents worth so to speak.I live in Tassie and if you want to keep snakes down this end of the world then you have no choice but to keep Vens as we only have three native snakes down here and they are Tiger snakes, Lowland Copperheads , and White lipped snakes whch are all venomous.I keep both Tigers and Copperheads at home all inside in large heated enclosures.When I decided I wanted to keep snakes it was not a decision that was made lightly I have handled snakes since i was about 8 years old and started out with Whippys and worked my way up from there. I have done numerous handling courses and Advanced handling courses but they can only teach you so much I have gained most of my experience from hands on working with these animals everyday I interact with my animals as much as i can and yes i do freehandle my Tigers everyday and trust them 100% and would not do so if i didn't they actually prefer to be freehandled than being on a hook they are much more at ease me handling them than being on the hook.However these are animals that i have had for quite some time and i have developed a trust and bond with these animals and i would never freehandle a snake that i encounter in the wild or one that has just been rescued as I am a qualified licenced snake handler/catcher so during the warmer months i do encounter quite a few snakes.I will always free handle it is a risk i am willing to take and i know the consequences of a bite from a Tiger snake as i have seen it second hand on a few other people i know who have been bitten not freehandling by the way!.So my thought on the matter is freehandle at your own risk it can be done safely with the right animal and if you are 100% confident in yourself as a handler.I have free handled for over 20 years with my only bite coming from a Whip snake that i was trying to save from a Copperheads mouth ungrateful little sod! Have some great pics of me freehandling my Tigers but am a bit reluctant to post because of all the cotroversy that comes with freehandling Vens.


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## baxtor (Jul 25, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Sorry Dan the man but its attitudes like yours that give our hobby a bad name.
> Bites and the usual media that follows aren't good for us elapid keepers.



I don't get the same feeling of the hobby having a bad name and certainly have not seen the media attention you mention. Maybe the media is just slow down where I live. The most cover I have ever seen is a short, no names mention in the local rag.


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## jack (Jul 25, 2011)

steve1 said:


> As adults in any community it is our responsibilty to try and set a "GOOD" example.


a bloke at my school freely handled an elapid in a cool and calm manner today in front of about 20 teenagers. 
i think he set a good example by not doing the typical aussie male response to such an animal


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

Baxtor
What I am getting at, is that people who keep potentially dangerous elapids and get bitten draw attention to the whole issue of keeping dangerous snakes amongst the community. These incidences although rare never serve our hobby well, it is that simple. Collectively we should never promote anything that puts a negative outlook on the keeping of elapids. This starts in a small way right here on this forum by challenging the attitudes of elapid keepers in their bad influence on others.
Sure there are many dangerous elapids that can indeed be free handled but why promote it here or do it if it is unnecessary. Please tell me what purpose holding an unrestrained adult adder and posting up the pics serves besides self indulgence? Perhaps good debate? The people that do this and then post pics of their deeds here while not giving a hoot about any negative influence on others, are in my opinion selfish.

I will like to add, that in the past I have also posted pics similar, and are stupid for it


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## dixilizards (Jul 25, 2011)

Just a quick question to all the keepers of venomous and 'mildly' venomous snakes.

All elapid keepers I know that have been bitten will outright proclaim that they were bitten whilst being complasant with either their handling technique or simply not paying attention (alcohol involved in some circumstances).

Is this the general case? or are my aquaintances the exeption to the general rule?

Cheers,
John


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## JasonL (Jul 25, 2011)

Personally I don't think people should keep vens if they think they will never be bitten.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

In almost all cases it is complacency that brings you undone. Although I could in a few cases claim absolute stupidity

We should start a thread on stupid stunts with venomous snakes that went pear shaped, I know a few


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## baxtor (Jul 25, 2011)

dixilizards said:


> Just a quick question to all the keepers of venomous and 'mildly' venomous snakes.
> 
> All elapid keepers I know that have been bitten will outright proclaim that they were bitten whilst being complasant with either their handling technique or simply not paying attention (alcohol involved in some circumstances).
> 
> ...


As far as my own experiences go I would agree. (absolutely NO alcohol involved though)

Pilbarapythons
I get your point and I sort of agree, it's just that I quite often see reference to the hobby's bad name yet I have never actually heard others in my community talk about the hobby in any way at all, good or bad.
I will admit I have typed out many a post over time defending freehandling with attached pics and all ready to stir the pot but have never actually hit the "post" button. I don't know if it is because I was being a responsible keeper or just a chicken without a flame suit.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

Maybe Baxtor I am a tad paranoid but would not be at all surprised that in the near future it will get even tougher to legally keep potentually dangerous pets than it currently is. I certainly hope not.


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## longqi (Jul 25, 2011)

So long as you understand the potential consequences there is nothing wrong with playing with vens
Some; such as most Cobras Boigas and Red Bellied Blacks are pussy cats 
Others such as Kraits and Saw Scales are very very seldom seen being free handled
Same goes for Coastal Taipans as most are totally unpredictable

The main thing is to understand that these little darlings can and will kill you if you make a mistake
One of my pet hates is demonstrators who show off unsafely with these or tell the public they are safe to handle
We have demonstrators throughout Asia who handle these with complete ease every day and very safely include the public in the demonstrations
But these guys and girls have been raised as snake handlers since childhood

We also have a death or two of demonstrators every year 
I lost a good mate from Malaya last year through a Boiga bite
Just too much toxin build up/reaction over too many years and a virtually harmless ven killed him

Its a bit like playing Russian Roulette 
You can do it safely X number of times


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## DanTheMan (Jul 25, 2011)

I agree with you to a point PilbaraPythons, I can see where you're coming from. Yes it is silly of me to post that photo, it's pointless really and it was only to cause a bit of a stir. That photo is the only time I have really properly free handled a dangerous elapid, and I trust that adder more than most pythons.
Still, everyone has their opinions and I doubt anyone is going to change from what someone else on a forum says.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes making videos and doing what I naturally do can indeed be a contradiction to promoting responsible behaviour and I am aware of this. This is why I insisted that we posted a warning in it (in the adder case, my sons comment) a small compromise I suppose. I nearly always tail elapids as I feel the most comfortable at the practice and I have been doing it since Jesus played football for Jerusalem. I do think however there is a difference between catching an elapid for a certain purpose than just holding in ones hand an unrestrained highly venomous snake. Although I am guilty of exactly that in my crazy years, the day I show a video of that, please someone punch me in the head because I would need it.

Dan

When I first got into keeping venomoue snakes I was always keen to free handle an adder and my wild collecting experience gave me the confidence to do so, so I do know where you are coming from ( you adrenalin junky ). My first try was with a northern adder and again I really trusted the snake. In my case, I think my attitude has changed because I have just become more mature as an old fart and perhaps also witnessing a few people suffer horrible envenomations right in front of me.
Don't be so sure that you can't change people attitudes by a simple forum discussion, I believe to some degree you can. I have been influenced by more than a few good posts right here over the years.


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## eipper (Jul 26, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> And one that I've been greatful for on a few occasions. Aggressive behaviour seems often confused with defensive and I'm yet to see an elapid chase anyone, but the stories abound.



I have been "chased" by 8 ft+ Coastals, 5 ft tigers and 2 mulgas over 8 ft bit different when they come at you first!!!

Dixilizards,

as for bites...every bite in captivity is a result of stuff up....if the snake was being handled safely there would not of been a bite. We as elapid keepers tend to cut the odd corner....cut enough corners and it catches up with you

Cheers,
Scott


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## montay (Jul 27, 2011)

I agree with you.
Completely.


Firepac said:


> As a licensed relocator handling wild vens is part of a days work. As was previously said you can't learn in a 2 day course, sure you can get a grasp of the basic techniques but it takes a lot of exposure to vens to be able to understand the animal and learn their behaviour, read their body language and predict their reaction. It takes time and practice.


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## Cockney_Red (Jul 27, 2011)

Its ok to handle them, just dont eat them....I have it on good authority, they are POISONOUS.....:shock:


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## SnakeyTroy (Jul 28, 2011)

I gather by "handling" you mean free-handling?? I think that is definately a personal choice for the individual keeper. I have free-handled snakes before and I'm sure I will do it again. I prefer to use a hook though.


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## grizz (Jul 28, 2011)

jack said:


> a bloke at my school freely handled an elapid in a cool and calm manner today in front of about 20 teenagers.
> i think he set a good example by not doing the typical aussie male response to such an animal



Was it Bear Grylls!


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## jack (Jul 28, 2011)

grizz said:


> Was it Bear Grylls!



cheeky sod! 
no it was me, and i dont drink my own pee


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## grizz (Jul 30, 2011)

My mistake!


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## massey (Aug 5, 2011)

You really have to remain vigilant! If you're keen, start off with something that doesn't have such an aggressive temperament like you're red bellied black snakes. Once you become more confident & get your reflexes up to scratch move on to your more defensive & aggressive species such as your tiger snakes or even better, eastern browns. Having said that, all our elapids here in Australia can be lethally fast once they've heated themselves to their optimum temperature & you need to keep your wits about you & always have compression bandages handy. 

I strongly urge individuals to take someone with you & always prepare for the worst case scenario when handling venomous snakes. As said previously, you cant learn this over two days or certainly not out of a book. A piece of paper saying you attended the course can not substitute the years of exposure it requires to become skilled in the handling of venomous snakes. 

It's important to be confident but not cocky. When you're handling a venomous snake you have a lot of adrenalin surging through you & it's essential you don't become over confident. That little bit of fear & caution you feel is what will stop you from making a silly mistake. It's the greatest feeling handling venomous snakes & i encourage people to give it a go in a controllable as possible environment with someone experienced.

Sorry to ramble or if I bored you. Have heaps of fun doing this guys!
Cheers


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## davebarrow (Aug 29, 2011)

i love deadly and non deadly reptiles 
i go herping all the time and if we find a red bellie or yellow faced whip snake i always feel connected so i dont mind picking them up and letting them just chill on lap 
yes they are venomous and all but dont think that they are just man killing snakes , they are the coolest reptile or living thing on this planet, they are just friends of a different species, i never use a hook or a something to pick them up, use your hands so the snake can feel your not afraid, the heart rate is the key, stay calm and they feel less threatened


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## waruikazi (Aug 30, 2011)

Great advice on a public forum champ. 



davebarrow said:


> i love deadly and non deadly reptiles
> i go herping all the time and if we find a red bellie or yellow faced whip snake i always feel connected so i dont mind picking them up and letting them just chill on lap
> yes they are venomous and all but dont think that they are just man killing snakes , they are the coolest reptile or living thing on this planet, they are just friends of a different species, i never use a hook or a something to pick them up, use your hands so the snake can feel your not afraid, the heart rate is the key, stay calm and they feel less threatened


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## -Peter (Aug 30, 2011)

Whats was that kids name again? The one from western Sydney. He and his cousin posted on here for a short time. Very short time unfortunately.


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## kawasakirider (Aug 30, 2011)

-Peter said:


> Whats was that kids name again? The one from western Sydney. He and his cousin posted on here for a short time. Very short time unfortunately.



What happened? Is he the kid that ran after being bitten by a brown? I thought that was a random accident, didn't know he was herping.


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