# id please



## Steve68 (Jan 1, 2013)

Come across a couple of snakes and not sure of the species I live in Mackay QLD see if this works


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## MrFireStorm (Jan 1, 2013)

Attachment didn't work Steve


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## Bushman (Jan 2, 2013)

Lesser Black Whip Snake_ (Demansia vestigiata)_ is my best guess.

Reasons: 
very long, thin (whip snake-like) body. 
Demansia-like head.
body marked with netted or spotted pattern.
dark grey body flushed with reddish brown towards tail.
locality is well within the known range of this species.


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## eipper (Jan 2, 2013)

I cannot see the pic


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## Bushman (Jan 2, 2013)

*Demansia vistigiata*

I'll try and transfer it up...







How's that...can you guys see it now?

The second pic is of a different species that looks like a Common Tree Snake (_Dendrelaphis punctulata_)
Reasons:~bright yellow belly and very large eyes. Also habit of climbing (in this case on top of fence).

Where was the second specimen found?


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## eipper (Jan 2, 2013)

The snake on the fence is a common tree snake Dendrelaphis punctulata and the snake on the ground is, I agree with Patrick, a Lesser Black Whip Snake Demansia vestigiata.

cheers
Scott


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## Firepac (Jan 2, 2013)

I agree, Lesser Black Whip, here is one caught just north of Mackay.


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## Gruni (Jan 2, 2013)

Bugger... I picked them both as Common Tree Snakes.  What indicators mark the difference?


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## Steve68 (Jan 2, 2013)

Thank you for fixing my post and the very quick id. The Green Tree snake was on my back fence, the lesser whip snake was at work 500yards away from where i live , i also have a sand goanna that visits my back yard every couple of days will try to upload pics later. Have a happy new year


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## eipper (Jan 2, 2013)

This is a growing problem 3 people answer and confirm an Id then you get this .... I was thinking its a.... it is answered, throwing in doubt will confuse the issue. I wonder why I bother sometimes


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## Firepac (Jan 2, 2013)

The correct ID has been made already, so no need to keep guessing.

Snake on the fence is a Common Tree snake and the other is a Lesser Black Whip, for reasons as given in the posts above.


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## Bushman (Jan 4, 2013)

I've been asked to elaborate on what constitutes a whip snake (Demansia genus) head and body.
I recognise that the terms that I used in my original ID were vague but it was after midnight after a long day. Recognising a whip snake (Demansia) by eye is something that you develop an eye for. It's a bit hard to put into words but I'll try and qualify the features to look for. 
The Demansia genus is characterised by relatively large, prominent eyes that have a diameter markedly greater than the distance from the mouth. The eyes have pale irises and round pupils. They typically have a pale rim around their eyes and have a dark teardrop or comma shape below their eyes. 
Their bodies are very slender (whip-like) with long, finely tapering tails.

Thanks for posting up the close-up image of a _Demansia vestigiata_ Firepac. 
It illustrates the distinctive reticulated pattern typical of this species. It also shows the small dark blotches that are usually present on the top and sides of the head. This latter feature is found particularly in eastern populations, however it's sometimes absent on western populations.


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## Gruni (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for that Bushman. I was saying to Firepac about how the tail shape threw me because CTS have that really slender long tail and because of the variety of colouring in tree snakes I was struggling to pick the differences.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Bushman,

I hope you don’t mind me adding to the distinguishing features. Whip Snakes and Common Tree Snakes have very similar proportions in that they are very long in comparison to thickness of their body. However, they differ in a few aspects. The head of whip snakes is almost round in cross-section (just slightly flattened) and width wise it is indistinct from the body. CTS have a noticeably dorsoventrally flattened head which is wider than the neck of the snake. 

The other readily identifiable difference in body proportion is the length of the tail. Whip Snakes have fairly typical length to their tail while CTS have a tail that is two to three times that length. So CTS have a long thin slowly tapering tail while Whip Snakes have a significantly shorter tail which tapers more quickly.

Colour wise, Whip Snakes vary from brown to russet to grey, or combinations of. Two or three species can be black. All whips have a whitish belly. CTS can be green with a bright yellow belly, blue with a bluish-white belly, golden with a yellow belly or, the sometimes confusing one, black dorsally with a white belly. Whip Snakes to not climb trees or shrubs. CTS can be found on the ground but they will quickly ascend any available shrub or tree if threatened.

The white ventrals on the black form of the CTS stand out significantly more so than the white ventrals on a black coloured whip.

With minimal experience they are dead to distinguish in the field.

Cheers and I hope that helps,
Blue


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## Bushman (Jan 6, 2013)

My pleasure Gruni. You're right that Dendrelaphis do also have whip-like tails.

Blue, you're most welcome to add more distinguishing features as you have done. The slightly dorsoventrally compressed head of Dendrelaphis is an interesting difference. Demansia seem to have a more rounder snout as well.

Regarding the other difference that you mention of tail length compared to body length, not all whip snakes have typical ratios, as _Demansia flagellatio_ has a long tail that is about 40% of SVL, which is much longer than most elapids.


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## Bushman (Jan 10, 2013)

[FONT=&amp] Snakes identified as Lesser Black Whip Snake (_Demansia vestigiata) __+ C_ommon Tree Snake_ (Dendrelaphis punctulata)._[/FONT]


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