# Bluetongue in house - Drought related



## Overland (Jan 11, 2020)

Hello Everyone, First time joining this forum but ive lurked in the shadows on and off over the years looking at some interesting threads.

This drought has taken its terrible toll on everything, the timing for me personally has been odd to say the least, im not what youd call a lizard fan but ive always admired them as an animal in general.. it seems ive become quite the lizard owner accidently though through no fault of my own .. unsolicited as it were.

My story starts on somewhat of a sad note, My wife is indonesian and sadly so anything lizard-like is the 4 legged scale covered manifestation of all that is evil for her.. even to the point of pictures giving the same reaction.. so lizard pets were not something in my future id ever considered

when she returned home for a while recently.. Happily for myself.. not for her.. I discovered an Asian Wall Gecko in the house.. it had changed colour to match the wall, its nightly yip yip sound was at first thought to be a strange bird or cricket.. sadly I work in the logistics industry closely tied with AQIS.. so as a good australian. I captured this invader as cute as it was and handed it over to an AQIS officer. who honestly seemed to like it as much as I did but knew its fate.. no zoo wants them and this poor thing was headed for the big sleep via a vet. 

apparently asian wall geckos are here and commonly come in towels from people - but none the less they try to keep the numbers low and I did my bit for the country

it seemed only 2 weeks had passed.. with the fires raging and drought in full force on the south coast, after telling my wife the fearsome bluetongue doesnt climb walls or come in houses (like an asian wall gecko). that I much to my surprise discovered a bluetongue in my house.. I got no idea what so ever how it got in the house. i'd seen one earlier in the day. but knowing they cant climb or stick to things.. I really see no way I could have brought it home

im not a lizard person, never truly considered one as a pet.. nothing more than a passing curiosity

I also know full well the laws of the land in NSW, your ment to have a licence for the things and never bring them from the wild.. none of which seemingly apply given that this ones a lizard version of a house-guest that dropped by

I leave the front door open at weekends when im home, the bluetongue seems not exactly interested in escaping.. infact its made a home in my loungeroom (lino floors thankfully)

I plan to release it whether it wants too or not once theres actual rain so it doesnt dehydrate and die

I can only assume it came in the house on the hottest day of the year recently to seek shade and water.. its ate banana, some greens.. access to fresh water.. hides at night time, active in daytime

im faced with somewhat of a problem though as this bluetongue isnt the only unsolicited house guest,

I get visits from resident hungry magpies that split their time between hunting worms in the park and hand feeding if I happen to have anything.. Ive fed water to a dehydrated baby magpie in the past, one thats become friends as well as its parents have.. knowing all too well this bluetongue would become dinner for 3 hungry magpies if it was to get in the crosshairs.. im hesitant to simply throw it outside and hope for the best

additionally where I assume it came from, where id seen others previously.. down the road from me, the mix of bluetongues and peoples cats have created on 2 occasions I know of. the disgusting result of seeing a bluetongue somewhat dismembered yet still alive, draging its insides on the outside. a fate I dont want my new found friend to be the unfortunately receiver of

in these strange times of drought im sure many are faced with unprecedented wildlife encounters such as the ones ive been saddled with.. id love to hear any similar stories and resolutions

is there any prevision in the NSW licencing for reptiles to keep such a thing?

im aware the companion lizard class licence doesnt need any documentation to be submitted.. but id love it be all by the book if it stayed long term (through its own free will)

the lizard itself ive named "Naga" as a joke to my wife.. indonesian for dragon 

it likes its food, it isnt shy.. somewhat tame.. and like all videos ive seen online, doesnt object to being held.. infact seems to enjoy it and goto sleep in my hands more oftern than not.. with a little quirk of only hissing slightly if I stop giving it a light stroke on its head as it sleeps

I admit as someone who never really wanted a lizard, when/if "naga" goes home.. buying one and having proper licencing wouldnt be far behind.. ive rather gotten attached to this almost cat-like lizard despite its cold skin and snake head.. I see where the interest grows and why people choose them as pets

does anyone have a similar situation in these and offer any advise? I realise its a rather complicated and open question on my fronts

Thankyou


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## Sdaji (Jan 11, 2020)

Just let it go, you shouldn't be keeping wild lizards as pets.


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 12, 2020)

No harm in encouraging it to stay by leaving a dish of water for it in a shady safe place , and helping it out with food , especially If there is no remaining habitat in your area as result of the fires + severe drought .

IMO this qualifies as a rescue situation despite the comments by puritanical people who might say don't interfer or try to help it. Chances are based on it's behavior it's an lost or released pet since it's so tame.

Sounds to me like you now have a pet in Naga. So let Naga have the option to come and go as Naga pleases ( and enjoy the privilege of having "wild" bluetongue who regularly visits and enjoys interaction with you ).
Since you aren't keeping Naga in an enclosure (forcing it to stay with you) , Naga comes and goes at will and chooses to visit , no need for you to take out a wildlife keepers' licence or to even tell the licencing department's boofocrats about Naga .

The companion native animal keepers' permit only applies it the animal is a KEPT permanently as a pet ( in a cage or enclosure or in the home and was purchased ). Same applies to the other classes of permit. None of which are applicable in this situation.

Continue doing what you are doing and enjoy the interaction and special trust relationships that will result from this with the local wild animals that you are helping.


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## kankryb (Jan 12, 2020)

I would help it also no matter what


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## Overland (Jan 12, 2020)

Thankyou all for replies, I appreciate each of them

I fully understand the mindset of that naga is wild or close to wild and it should in all realism be let go, something I do endeavour to do the moment it rains a decent amount, we do have abundant snails here.. or used to have. so food im sure wont be hard to find back in the wild, its all im waiting for honestly.. just some rain. some green to start growing.. a little more than swarms of hungry birds pecking the ground fruitlessly for worms that dont exist only to find a juicy somewhat large bluetongue thats rather naturally defenseless.. making a wonderful meal.. just really trying to give this delightful lizard the best chance of resuming life

naga chose to walk into my home, camp in my house during that hot day. I appreciate the company and with it, ive actually used it as a driving force to learn alot about bluetongues online, to the point that once naga does go back into the wild, it'd be followed up by a captive bred bluetongue and licence where i'll start my journey as a bluetongue owner. at the age of 38, with a tame bluetongue in my lap thats happily asleep enjoying warmth.. it does seem this unsolicited scale covered cat, despite its strange look. might be the pet im looking for

at 39, the last pet I had was my dog of 17 years that died in my lap as she was put down as a very old dog, this was some 6 years ago now

I have enough wildlife coming to the house in the day but nothing I get to hold or stroke as it goes to sleep, or feed with a sense of presence . all of which naga has taught me is possible with a lizard

its been a wonderful learning experience and with it ive managed to save and revitalise an animal that would likely be otherwise dehydrated and dead by now

on a side note, I seen earthworks being done recently in my area.. I was suprised to see just how deeply caked dry the soil is, almost looks like mars under the dead grass.. certainly not friendly to life even without the fires. its a difficult time for everyone and everything.. I do feel lucky to have been given the opportunity and with it a new chapter in life

finally too, having naga here has helped my wife get over her lizard/reptile phobia shes had all her life..
other than size.. theres simply nothing scary about a bluetongue and its done wonders

"Naga" - night time spot (driers warm)


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 13, 2020)

He's certainly settled in and seems to like it inside with you.

I think he's adopted you and wont want to leave unless it's go find a mate .


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## Overland (Jan 13, 2020)

it is nice to have around the house, nagas also looking and acting more healthy and lizard-like

falling asleep on my arm at night, it must have got some latenight warmth from myself and the dryer, soon it was off to the apple/banana peices and a late night explore of the house, where I actually got hissed at properly for removing it from nesting in my jacket in the laundry, all encouraging for me as when it first came into the house. the dehydration and lack of food seemed to have taken its toll

im looking forward to having it rain and the snail population explode, at which time ill put naga outside vs simply leaving the outside door open for hours

ive done my bit, learnt alot and saved a life. gained alot of understanding, experience and affection for these scale-cats

some encouraging yet puzzling news from my wife, shes used to bluetongues now but only if it looks like naga

so, it seems im stuck with an eastern (?) bluetongue when the time comes to purchase one as a pet from a licenced pet shop or breeder

I dont have a problem with it, I think their one of the most beautiful species of bluetongue, with the exception of those black ones ive seen online 

ill post a few pics on the day of release when it happens

I cant help but feel fortunate to have had this house guest and all that its done


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## kankryb (Jan 13, 2020)

Great that you want one, the right way, now it's never too late to get a new hobby


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 14, 2020)

Nothing wrong with eastern bluetongues . They make great pets and my two are mega tame and trouble free and love snuggles .


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## Overland (Jan 14, 2020)

thats something I never would have believed and been lead down the path of owning a captive bred bluetongue if id not had the experiences with naga

snuggles, being held, having a lizard appreciate interacting with a human. all very feline and canine qualities





naga sure likes sitting on my arm while getting sun, safe from magpies, if a wild lizard can be this tame (and active, healthy and zippy when exploring the house) having those qualities in a proper captive bred bluetongue, it gives me hope of a long 15-20 years companion pet

rains said to fall on weekend so itd be time for the big goodbye in a few days

I cant say im sad
just happy to have had the opportunity.

its been a light in the otherwise darkness of the new year for people and animals alike


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 15, 2020)

Naga may choose not to leave or at least not to go far. Your house is now Naga's territory , and it's pretty clear Naga likes/trusts you (I'd cultivate that and encourage that , pretty easy to set up a feeding , drinking/bathing station in an area near the house or in a room where Naga likes to hang out).

We had an eastern much like Naga when I was child ( in the 1960s ) who was so tame she'd take food from our fingers and hands , and came when we called her name , often wondered inside and would be found curled up under the lounge or a bed , even ontop a bed occasionally (under a pillow) , this skink stayed with us for over 15 years , giving berth to a little of baby skinks nearly every year.

More recently I've had very bold water skinks take up residence inside our house who become very tame and even tame enough to permit the occasional finger treat and a tickle under the chin. I enjoyed them so much I ended up finding captive bred water skinks and now have two adult females who share a very large converted tub and a juvenile male (who's thrived and is now 38g and a very impressive subadult male who has his own tub).
Very cheaky wild water skink on our lounge ( was living in our house coming and going at will ) and became pretty friendly.






My pet 5 year old female captive bred eastern water skink Fluffy enjoying some quality dad time yesterday :





Raised her from juvenile about 3 months old and she's a very sweet little lady .

My two easterns were bought from a local breeder as little babies who could sit in my hand 10 years ago ( a male and a female ) and have grown to be very smoogy skinks . When you buy your captive bred skink, look for something about 2 to 3 months old who is very outgoing and friendly ( I chose two who came to me and crawled out of the tub and wanted to explore me and seemed very comfortable with my wife and me ) . Also the younger skink will not have had it's health compromised as much as a 6 to 12 month old juvenile or subadult by way of poor husbandry or diet .
I've only mated my two once ( accidental ) , was very hard parting with the 9 babies ( we would have kept the lot if we had the space ) and was also a PITB getting emails and calls from potential buyers , most who never showed up , so we've kept the pair in separate tanks and not allowed them to mate again.

Mildred as a juvenile enjoying a nap in my shirt pocket :




George snuggling


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## Overland (Jan 16, 2020)

beautiful post thankyou mate, lovely story thats now close to my heart after my experience.

water skinks, we have them alot down here near the mountain creeks. I never knew what they were until now, the wild ones run away so iv never had the chance to have a good look at them, very tempting I must say, your two bluetongues inspire me greatly, honestly been worried about getting one young basically wanting a naga clone, I see though a 3 month old bluetongue is as special as a wild full grown one 

you was right about naga, it was with a bit of a heavy heart I forfilled my promise and released her after we had a bit of rain, surprisingly emotional spent all day thinking about her when I was out in town. along with eyeing bluetongue or waterdragons for sale to fill that green scale covered hole in my heart 

not too long ago id only been home an hour when a big electrical storm set in, full of double thunder, lightning strikes from hell and rain pleasing yet cold and driving downpour

I didnt see her come in, the bottom of my flyscreen has no mesh though

surprisingly (scared me at first)

nagas hiding between the oven and the cupboard looking very much like a dog scared of thunder, I realise lizards faces arnt all that dynamic, its not hard to see fear in her eyes though. I reckonise that anywhere, my long dead staffordshire of 17 years always had the same look

with a bit of coaxing, nagas currently under my jacket hiding from the storm and taking warmth from her human once again, im convinced shes female too, body shape, smaller head. she may actually be pregnant as ive noticed over the time she stayed with me shes gotten slightly bigger. hopefully if she is pregnant (and a female) she'll have those outside

so another learning experience, bluetongues hate storms.. if I haddent of experienced it, id never know or even consider it possible


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## kankryb (Jan 16, 2020)

Now when I wake I go strait to aussiepython and here to check update on naga I think you are doing great and keep the updates coming


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 17, 2020)

I'd say Naga feels safe and protected with you and in your home , it's her "safe place" . I think you are stuck with her as a house guest.

You can keep the status quo , letting her come and go as she pleases , I'd be offering her some food supplementation ( make sure it's good quality and rich in calcium as she'll need the calcium and protein if she's pregnant to help her babies develop properly inside her ).
Is very hard on a skink when pregnant as the fetuses take the lions' share of goodness in the mother's food.

Regarding the friendly resident water skinks. My wife grew up in a semi-rural area where sometime brown and black snakes come inside the house. The first year or so when our first resident water skink started coming inside everytime she saw a tail disappearing under the fridge or cabinets or lounge she'd freak out until one day I saw the tail's owner bold as brass on the kitchen floor foraging for crumps . I bought a tub of mealworms and started tossing a few mealworms in it's direction each time I saw it , and I set up a large plastic jar lid ( Kraft Peanut Butter) on the floor with some water in .

This skink soon started coming up to me when I was on the lounge ( begging for some worms ) and not long it was sitting on the lounge next to me , and I got a very pleasant surprise one afternoon when I placed a mealworm in my open uphead hand when the skink came up and took the worm off my hand and then returned and tried to force my fingers apart - the hand smelled like mealworm and it obviously thought I was holding out on me.
Won my wife over when it took a cricket from her finger tips and let he pet it.

This skink was regular house guest for 3 or 4 years and inspired me to get my first two official pet lizards ( I wanted a pet water skink but couldn't find any for sale in my area , so I started looking at eastern water dragons ( we get some in our garden some times ) , bluetongues ( I knew a bit about them ) and or bearded dragons. The bluetongues were the first babies I saw advertised so that settled the matter.


Took a long time to find a local breeder who had captive bred eastern water skinks for sale. VERY HARD TO FIND.

Regarding skink personality : my observation is that every skink has it's own character and quirks .


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## kankryb (Jan 17, 2020)

If naga gives birth inside the house, will the babies be wild ones or pets?


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## Overland (Jan 17, 2020)

kankryb said:


> If naga gives birth inside the house, will the babies be wild ones or pets?



interesting question really, im hoping thatll happen on her trips outside. I do genuinely wonder though. is a baby skink born inside still wild? best get my reptile licence soon in anycase 

in the latest saga of naga shes become a "network monitor" shes improvised my wifi modem I rarely use as her heating pad, it never gets too warm. I do get weak signals though..




(not nagas footprints just dust)



and she seems extremely happy to sleep in the pocket of my jeans when im watching netflix

its raining hard outside, very cold
her interest in going outside seems to be between no and hiss
with this modem being the best place in the world short of hanging around on my neck

a very clingy skink today, but with good reason

on another note, its rather evident in the world that people regard these creatures as cold, robotic things running on instinct, void of all emotion and feeling

most people state that naga is simply too tame to be wild and she must be an escaped pet, while possible I think it heavily disregards the animal itself when I think about it

ive got magpies that visit me occasionally and hand feed, a currawong at work thats known me for years and flys down in the morning to me and only to me

similar with 3 crows that have known me since they were babies. all 3 equally trusting

ive got a cockatoo that comes in my house to eat seed and over the years ive made friends with quite a few birds. to me - if naga is wild, she has the same trust as these birds have. wild yet free to choose what benefits her, its as if because shes a reptile. such a concept is completely alien and impossible to many

true though ive never had a bird goto sleep on me yet, but she has her reasons. im warm 

since im off work today and its too cold outside for her to munch on snails, ill buy her some squash, strawberries, lettuce and a nice square foil packet of dog food

maybe a banana for later if shes still hanging around in my house once the rain clears

best part about a lizard like this
she can have her dog food but everything else I can eat if she happens to disapear back outside


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 18, 2020)

My approach will be keep Naga and the babies "off the books" , not on your NSW Wild Life Licence or official records ( avoids "complications" ).

Let them all come and go as they please , the babies will eventually disperse but wont go far if females.

PM sent.

I too have friendly magpies, doves, rosellas etc, as well as friendly skinks and geckos , and sometimes I get a visit from a large male water dragon who wants in on the free-food and treats , and is not shy about "helping me garden" - makes fast work of disturbed spiders, worms, rollypollies, centepedes, etc and sometimes takes a cricket or superworm from me.


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## GBWhite (Jan 18, 2020)

Hi Overlander,

Unfortunately mate your Bluey is a wild one and so would any babies that may be born whether inside the house or not so there would be no possibility of ever getting them on license. Just be content that it is happy to wonder in and out of the house. In addition from the photo it doesn't appear to be gravid (pregnant).

All the best,

George.


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## Overland (Jan 20, 2020)

Thanks everyone  Im quite happy for naga to be the house lizard she is, a scale covered wingless magpie of sorts. unique but similar

the modems definately become her spot of choice, ive relocated the food and waterbowl nearby





its nice to see her warm and active when I do see her, havent seen her for almost 2 days previously. searched everywhere in the house, food remained untouched so I figure she was having a stint outside

seen her running across the loungeroom floor sunday evening when I purposely left the front door open with the flyscreen closed all day that has no mesh at the bottom

bluetonguin can be a bit odd to interpret at times
since they face any threat rather than run, im never sure if shes looking at me in a friendly way or wanting to hiss, ive never got the tongue showing treatment though

she seemed rather cold when I sighted her around 8.30pm. picking her up to see how she was eventuated in the classic reptile snuggle, her new favorate place appears to be my jeans pocket where shes worked out to turn around with just her nose sticking out and goto sleep in a rather entertaining "trowser snake" look 







one thing remains constant in my mind though, im glad shes alive. thinking about how many thousands of these slow moving defenseless animals would have met a terrible end in the southcoast fires, having one warm, content and sleeping in my pocket. its a blessing im thankful for

not without conflicts though. a wild bluetongue being a house guest seems to have been my gateway reptile. I find myself looking to the future with a bearded dragon. at which point, from all ive read.. they dont like to share territory

but! one day at a time
when shes ready she may move on and im in no rush for the bearded dragon

as mandated by my lovely wife with the nuclear level reptile phobia

shes fine with bluetongues now, a massive astronomical step. should I buy one it has to be as close to looks to naga as possible

right now a bearded dragon with thier light speed, creepy arm having and mini dinosaur look revitalise her phobia to levels over 9000


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 21, 2020)

Modems have always been a fav spot for the scaley 4 legged visits to my house too. Nice and warm ontop the modem.

I'm sure your wife will soon fall in love with a bearded dragon when you buy one , get it as a hatchling ( start small and cute / goofy looking and she'll love it , choose the hatchling that is most relaxed with being handled and the battle will soon be over and she'll wonder why she was so scared of them ) , they are every bit as personable as a tame bluetongue and can be super snuggly too.


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## kankryb (Jan 28, 2020)

Any updates on naga?


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## Overland (Jan 29, 2020)

With the warmer weather and thankfully rain too. she seems to disapear for days at a time, Food untouched when she does.

I assume shes seen it fit to do her thing outside. im happy for her if not slightly worried, I guess that comes with having a beloved house guest vs an actual pet 

shes dropped by recently and fed on a few grapes I offered during that extremely hot day,

like alot of people I know, lizards arnt immune to becoming hissy and huffy during hot humid weather. her climbing skills have now graduated to wall gecko from bluetongue, in that shes learnt to use household items with interesting results, ones that seem well practised

shes using a bike wheel to contort herself, winding around the spokes in an almost upside down way to eventually end up on her prefered safe spot on the window sill, only around 40cm from the ground but impressive none the less

this, I found out is her territory, not mine
and with a warm lizard baked to perfection, giving her a pat is fine. welcome..but trying to remove her got a proper huffy hiss (but no tongue)

in bluetongue style though she went from hissy to "whatever" when held 

out of curiosity I visited a local pet store that professionally stocks reptiles, trying to see my future purchase bluetongue. regretably they didnt have any, just bearded dragons. not wanting to leave empty handed. I purchased a good size container of superworms to start a colony, study..and to feed naga (with head squished)

sadly nagas interest in these worms seems to be nill. she prefers fruit and vegetables. 

im contemplating cooking the mealworms myself. they look tasty on youtube.. if naga doesnt think so..I do


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## nuttylizardguy (Jan 29, 2020)

Overland said:


> With the warmer weather and thankfully rain too. she seems to disapear for days at a time, Food untouched when she does.
> 
> I assume shes seen it fit to do her thing outside. im happy for her if not slightly worried, I guess that comes with having a beloved house guest vs an actual pet
> 
> shes dropped by recently and fed on a few grapes I offered during that extremely hot day,


Yep , I get that too.
My house gecko/s and friendly house water skink hang out inside for a week to 3 weeks at a time, then head outside to do their "thing" for a while .
I've had a skink do this , even wintering inside ( and staying awake and hungry and active most the winter ) for years .

The geckos tend to keep a lower profile , but we know they are there because we hear them churping and sometimes they show up on the lino or kitchen benches or climbing the window to eat a moth.



> out of curiosity I visited a local pet store that professionally stocks reptiles, trying to see my future purchase bluetongue. regretably they didnt have any, just bearded dragons. not wanting to leave empty handed. I purchased a good size container of superworms to start a colony, study..and to feed naga (with head squished)
> 
> sadly nagas interest in these worms seems to be nill. she prefers fruit and vegetables.
> 
> im contemplating cooking the mealworms myself. they look tasty on youtube.. if naga doesnt think so..I do



IMO that's pretty strong evidence that Naga is indeed an escaped/ lost or dumped pet , and has never been fed live or dead insects ( lots of keepers give their captive bred bluetongues dog food as a staple and they never learn insects are food ). A wild skink will not hesitate to take a worm , especially if you've squished it's head and it's fresh and it's juices are now smelly and appetitizing , I've had wild skinks trying to eat my fingers that smelt like cricket or mealworm or superworm .

Try a live worm next time , the movement in a dish might be the charm if Naga's actually wild. ( Will have had to fend for herself which means eating grubs, worms, snails, insects and small spiders, etc and occasionally a nibble on mushrooms and herbs and flowers .)


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## Overland (Feb 8, 2020)

I have tried live superworms, even minus head they have the muscular fortitude to move around for an hour or so I found, I undertook a test the other day when naga was on the windowsill,

worm or grape.. she was warm and agile. I left her alone for a while watching her through the blinds

sure enough she walked over the worm not caring for it and eventually ate 3 grapes. she has eaten dogfood before, a corner of them little squares but generally seems to prefer fruit and vegetables

in another nice unexpected naga sponsored event, im finding superworms to be very interesting. Just put them on a fresh bed of oats tonight and handled one for a long time. its good in a way naga doesnt eat them. My adventures in bug farming wouldnt have started without naga inspiration. wild or escaped pet..shes been a pleasant twist in life thats lead me down a path I never would have considered without my visiting skink

right now im not too sure shes home, a banana in her foodbowls had a chew, but shes not in her usual hiding spots and theres no droppings anywhere, I figure she visited for water which is near the banana and left possibly to do her thing

I admit its nice to have the mystery and its less worrying than having a caged lizard causing me to stress about getting home on time to let it out 

ill get a few pics and video next time I see her. shes looking nicely healthy
[doublepost=1580304954,1580297702][/doublepost]a little unexpected surprise from changing the bedding of the superworms, I found a female green cricket bouncing around, same species of what the store sold. perhaps it was living with mealworms all along?

in anycase it cures one curiosity, torn between crickets or worms I somehow got both

when naga does return, she'll be offered this unexpected bonus prize
[doublepost=1581131068][/doublepost]naga has returned, shed and once again taken up residence ala "trousersnake" in my jeans pocket right now, I didnt see or hear her move for many days. pretty much figured she'd found another home

this morning during the heavy flooding rains - interestingly enough polar opposite of what brought naga into my home in the first place..

I saw a tail under my fridge, unmistakenly naga but missing the white spot, I moved the fridge to discover naga and bit of scales, its one of them things once you realise what it is, its then seen everywhere

after this discovery I found a green patch near the modem, some flakes in my quilt (not on bed) and loungeroom, some big, some tiny

shes eaten some dog food thismorning, flatly ignored any superworm, decapitated or not, this was disturbing to do as id gotten attached to the worms 

shes back to her happy self asleep in my pocket while that 200mm of rain bears down

she sure knows when to come home


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 9, 2020)

She knows when she's on a good thing.

Smart skink you have there and it's pretty clear she trusts and likes you.


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## Overland (Feb 9, 2020)

one thing id like to ask, whats with the expensive bluetongues? petshops and breeders have them for 200+ both common eastern and trippy coloured ones seem to start around 200, or breeders in nsw seem to stick to non-local types seemingly to keep the price high

ive seen bearded dragons in respected stores around the 100 range. makes me wonder if prices were lower would a lizard nicely replace othee common pets and much to the advantage of our country, aint no giant ferral bluetongues around


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 9, 2020)

Overland said:


> one thing id like to ask, whats with the expensive bluetongues? petshops and breeders have them for 200+ both common eastern and trippy coloured ones seem to start around 200, or breeders in nsw seem to stick to non-local types seemingly to keep the price high
> 
> ive seen bearded dragons in respected stores around the 100 range. makes me wonder if prices were lower would a lizard nicely replace othee common pets and much to the advantage of our country, aint no giant ferral bluetongues around



They are chasing the $.

I'm sure if you check GumTree and PetPages , you'll find breeders of common "non-fancy / aka expensive morphs" eastern BT skinks who have been breed in captivity for about the same price as beardies.
I've seen easterns ( babies and juveniles ) for sale for about $50 .
My advise is avoid petshops when buying reptiles , find a local hobbyist breeder and buy from them ( this way you get to see the mum and dad lizard too ).


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## Overland (Feb 22, 2020)

A bittersweet update on my much loved naga, no she isnt dead  quite the opposite, freshly shed, impressively fat yet not in an unhealthy way, as placid and loving as ever

my time with naga came to a conclusion today after a conversation with a wires member, she agreed that naga seemed either too tame or just too well adjusted to home life to be safely let into the wild carelessly, add to this, theres been quite a bit of owl activity and bird activity in general in my area. something that likely spelt a horrible painful end to a lizard who of her own accord, came into my house and life during that terrible drought a few months back and made my house her own

as expected a heartfelt conversation with a NSW wildlife officer proved sympathetic and understanding, yet rigid. I will say the woman on the phone was wonderful to deal with and if itd be upto her. id have naga on licence. alas..I do live in NSW.. so it was a no, although with great praise with my intent to give naga over to wires

wherever theyre based these days proved my wollongong home to be too far to come, offers to meet at kiama station threw up confusing questionmarks for reasons unknown

it was established, Austinmeer animal hospital to be the best dropoff point for checkup, care and eventual pickup

not my first preference, I got my dog of 17 years put down by these people, despite being lovely people n all

I turned up with naga onboard in her well known trowsersnake position, buried in my jeans pocket, gave her a final hug and handed her over into a pet carrier

the staff and waiting clients all conveyed on how absolutely beautiful, healthy and gentle she was

she'll be checked out, scanned for a microchip (a vague hope I had..)

I had slight health concerns recently that she has a slight wheeze likely due to the strange weather and mentioned this too just incase

I applied for a companion reptile licence on the bus
granted within 5 minutes.. dropped into a pet store to eye a central bearded dragon id like at a later time, and to pickup some mealworms to farm

in all honesty id love another common eastern bluetongue, alas common boring lizards arnt easy find in the reptile trade

so today marks the conclusion to my house guest bluetongue, its been a wonderful amazing learning experience that introduced me to the world of lizards as pets id never have known, nor felt ever existed

and feeling it did, handing naga over and returning to a house minus naga has to rank 99% equally with losing a dog,

best I fill this empty void with another scale covered captive bred friend as soon as possible, and with it. a functioning mealworm colony 
[doublepost=1582340360,1582340222][/doublepost]last hug



possible future pet:


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 22, 2020)

I wouldn't have even mentioned Naga to the NSW wildlife officer , or WIRES . Hopefully she'll end up living a protected life at somewhere like Gosford Reptile Park and wont be left to her own devices in the bush somewhere without proper rehabilitation.

Did they say you will be given updates on her ?

Good luck with the future bearded dragon or bluetongue skink .


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 22, 2020)

nuttylizardguy said:


> I wouldn't have even mentioned Naga to the NSW wildlife officer , or WIRES .


I agree.... should've just left well enough alone I reckon.


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## Overland (Feb 22, 2020)

honestly mate it was the hardest choice to make, she came into my home of her own free will and greatly benefited from it in a way im very proud

a few factors scared me despite how much I love this green scale covered lizard shaped cat,

I work for a logistics company thats tied into NSW borderforce/AQIS under licence, even the small chance of being fined etc for doing the wrong thing in regards to naga, as stupid and as mindboggling as it is in NSW wildlife laws are. could have directly put my job at risk, a strange ideal from my point of view since I was taking the upmost care of naga and she was all the better for it, she was never captured or put in any enclosure

second is, Im actually a wheelchair user and having naga as freerange as she was came with the terrible and heartbreaking risk that she'd one day end up in 2 bits with the insides on the outside, a victim of an unforgiving wheel, she came to actually associate my wheelchair with me, increasingly so sleeping on and in a spare wheelchair I have thats the same colour as what I use, having no fear to take evasive action if ever she was unseen

but the ideal that I would have had to eventually brought an enclosure for her just to get around the previously mentioned issue didnt agree with me at all, she loves her space, hates being in any box no matter how big, yet loved being in my pocket warm and safe

it was always a calculated risk of extremely low success to contact NSW wildlife the way I did, but in doing so it lead me to wires as an idea id not considered

happily a former school teacher of mine from long ago is one of the most active wires members thats likely to end up encountering naga on her journey, Ive got alot of faith in what they said, at the end of the day though I think this ticks all boxes, despite a very big and heavy bluetongue shaped hole in my heart today

Ive been promised updates and if I do get any ill be happy to post them here 

I realise the common bluetongue might be somewhat of a lacklustre skink as a pet, but as someone whos only had dogs, cats and rabbits (most ive found on the street over the years including my staffy that got put down at 17)

im proud to say a bluetongues proven to be the most beautiful, unique and friendly animal ive ever had the pleasure to own, as short as it was

I can only wish in time native animals replace dogs and cats as preferred pets in time as we as a people in this country focus on greater preservation of what we have


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 22, 2020)

Overland said:


> honestly mate it was the hardest choice to make, she came into my home of her own free will and greatly benefited from it in a way im very proud
> 
> a few factors scared me despite how much I love this green scale covered lizard shaped cat,
> 
> ...



Pretty bad situation to be in to fear loosing your job because a skink decided she liked you and decided to make your home her home. Like I've said right along , you've been doing nothing wrong , Naga had the freedom to come and go at will and she decided she liked / trusted you (that's not a common thing to have happen with "wild" reptiles).
I worry about my resident friendly "house" skinks and geckos when I don't see them inside for weeks at a time ( locals around here let their cats roam 24/7 , and some don't even bother the keep their dogs contained ) , and occasionally I'll find one of MY lizards dead in the yard and that's very upsetting .

I'd say Naga owned you rather than the other way around.

IMO common eastern bt skinks are fabulous animals and make superb family pets. My grandson loves our two.


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## Overland (Feb 23, 2020)

Thankyou my friend, youve always been understanding and right on point with any advise youve given, I do greatly appreciate it

bluetongues are great pets and will always have a place in my heart 

ive seen terrible things happen to them in the past, dismembered by cats still alive dragging thier insides on the outside and hissing with every step ranks in my book as the number one nightmare ive seen and was a driving force in wanting to save naga from it in any possible way,

its one thing to see a lizard introuble before but having spent time with one now, like you say. seeing one of your lizards dead is a terrible thing wild or not, its all the same

I hope for a day when captive reptiles form a greater part in what is the family default pet, certainly less destructive, part of me being so outward with naga was to show family and friends just how wonderful a lizard can be as a pet. im happy to say I might have planted seeds of interest with some people 


thankyou also for showing me the way for finding common boring lizards around 35 dollars vs 250 ive been quoted 
[doublepost=1582419694,1582377124][/doublepost]an update on naga im happy to report

the vet - who has her own bearded dragon and quite loving of all things reptiles
conveyed naga's health to WIRES as a credit to myself ive been told she was in absolute good health when checked out

shes been released into the escarpment bush down this way, something far superior than a suburban garden full of nasty cats

of course still quite sad none the less


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 25, 2020)

Really enjoyed the read. It brought back some fond memories as a youngster growing up in south-west Sydney. We commonly had eastern blueys in the yard. What I observed over the years was that different individuals displayed different behavioural traits. I also observed that they clearly had a capacity to learn. They definitely do not operate solely on instincts, as many seem to believe.

If I were to state that the various blue-tongues that visited all had their own individual personalities, it would no doubt raise the ire of those sensitive about being anthropomorphic. So suffice to say they each displayed their own individual temperament. Some were always wary and would only eat the snails and other food items placed out for them, if I remained still and at a respectable distance. At the other end of the scale were those that eventually allowed me to handle them. I might as well add that our house cats were wimps. A single encounter with one in full defensive display was enough for them to give the lizards a wide berth from then on. So the lizards were able to come and go with no interference.

One weekend when out in the bush I made an interesting observation. I came across a full-sized adult exiting a narrow burrow underneath a sizeable boulder. As I hadn’t disturbed the lizard I decided to sit and watch it. The boulder had a small overhang right around its base and was basically wedged between two vertical rock faces either side. The lizard made it way along this overhang, clearly looking to go over the boulder to get to higher ground. As I’d seen blueys slipping and sliding on sheets of tin when startled and madly trying to escape, I thought to myself this lizard has no show of climbing up there. However, using it hind limbs it pushed the front of its body upwards, past the overhang. It was basically standing on tippy toes and using its tail to help support its body weight. This gave it sufficient reach for its outstretched front claws to find purchase on the sloping section of the sandstone boulder’s face. Slowly it pulled its body upwards and both back legs were momentarily dangling in thin air. All the while the tail remained in contact with the ground. Once the hind legs were in contact with the rock face, it used that purchase to move each fore limb forward, in turn, and pulled itself up further. After just a little more careful climbing it was away. Had I not seen it with my own eyes I would have doubted anyone relating a similar tale. 

By the way, magpies do not pose a serious threat to an adult bluetongue. If the birds have a nest nearby then they will harass any sizeable animal in the vicinity, in an attempt to scare it off to protect their eggs or young. Lace monitors commonly raid bird nests, so this behaviour by the birds is definitely not unwarranted.

Why the WIRES lady mentioned owls as a potential predator, I have no idea. Owls are nocturnal and blue-tongues are diurnal. Kookaburras will take young blueys, as will a number of diurnal raptors. A large raptor, like the Brown Falcon, may predate on slightly bigger individuals, but I’d reckon it would not be common. The main predators of adult Eastern Blue-tongues are large elapids.


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 25, 2020)

Clearly the WIRES lady is clueless.


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## Overland (Feb 26, 2020)

Unfortunately mate, it was me who brought up owls not wires, with good reason.

I work in sydney, live in wollongong so home is dark till dark, naga adjusted likewise, enjoying an occasional grape after some pocket-time around 9pm, commonly seen exploring the house well past 11 when all bluetongues should ( and was originally) asleep at this time, so much so that a friend with his own captive bluetongues questioned how and naga was awake doing her thing long after his own were asleep

sadly, these concerns were ignored by WIRES - they simply wernt interested because naga was in , as the vet said. in good health
(and she had scales not fur or feathers)

avoiding insects, worms..being notcternal, well accustomed to the soft lounge, sunning herself by windows, being found taking comfort in bubblewrap and using a router as a heatpad, one of many concerns I had and detailed to no end in upmost clarity

to release the animal in this adjusted state, much like nsw wildlifes own page says in regards from moving a lizard and being unable to find food was exactly why I thought I was doing the right thing

in the end, I wasnt
its me who was clueless sadly

btw, anyone know what that nice music on nsw wildlife wait queue is when you call up?  id love to hear the full version
[doublepost=1582712227,1582677459][/doublepost]last update on everything. in back from a 3+ hour trip and 70 dollars lighter. I did have one lined up with another seller but, I wanted that naga shaped hole in my heart filled

this is "oomax"
not sure how old she is, she was one of many and countless others, species too from the breeder today

its very tame, gentle, soft and squishy, attacks dogfood with vigor though

I forgot theyre not nocternal.. I put oomax in a towel and she fell asleep quickly, quite a ride of boucing around all day in a chinese container

happy, yeah..but I could have my naga if sanity was a thing in nsw revenue makers that we call regulations


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 27, 2020)

Oomax looks nice . He/she will give you lots of pleasure as a pampered and very spoilt pet.
Does the missus like Oormax ? A few smuggles from Oormax and she'll soon be won over.

Brings back very fond memories of when my George & Mildred were little juvenile BTs .

How have you set up Oormax's tank/tub ?

I think a good UVB source at least is mandatory for a fast growing very young skink + calcium rich protein rich food. At the very least I'd recommend a 26W UVB150 in NANO HOOD mounted about 20cm from the basking spot because it's going to be way too dangerous for Oormax to go outside in the natural sunlight while he/she's so little and vulnerable.


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## kankryb (Feb 27, 2020)

Congratulation Overland, you are now a reptile nut like the rest of us


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## Overland (Feb 27, 2020)

thanks everyone 

wife hates oomox for the opposite reason that naga was, naga was a giant asian wall gecko in her eyes

oomox is an asian wall gecko in naga livery 

oomox's tub is half setup, at the moment, I gather like alot of people its a setup with paper towels, desklamps etc

because I dont have a heatlamp nor uv lamp yet, I did the most viable thing

trowsersnake my new pet in a sydney office all day long!  oomox stayed in my pocket all day with a full hours sunlight at lunch

oomox certainly knows who I am, with others holding today, she'd fight her way back into my hands when offered to someone else

not too happy about my sleeping/work patterns but adjusting well

eating well with a healthy interest in mealworms, water and dogfood


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 28, 2020)

Overland said:


> thanks everyone
> 
> wife hates oomox for the opposite reason that naga was, naga was a giant asian wall gecko in her eyes
> 
> ...



Go easy on the mealworms , high fat content in them.

Better worms to offer are
blacksoldier fly lavae , good place to get them is BIOSUPPLIES ( based in Sydney, order on any week day (Sun,M,Tue,W,Th) and you'll likely get your parcel delivered next day or day after). , can order online , get the large size worms and I'd suggest two 50g tubs to start. Incredibly good staple source of insect protein and dietary calcium and even when they pupate are good food , as are the very slow moving flies.
https://biosupplies.net.au/black-soldier-fly-larvae-50gm/

A dish like this works a treat at keeping worms in it, https://www.amazon.com/ADOGGYGO-Reptile-Mealworm-Ceramic-Feeding/dp/B07TZV87NH
just make sure the BSFL are dry when they go in else they'll climb out (using water film surface tension - they escape artists when damp).

sllkworms ( I'd get maybe 25 MEDIUM size , about 30mm long ) , are a near perfect feeder insect , can feed fresh mulberry leaves or chow .(Very slow moving). I think LIVEFOODS UNLIMITED still sell them in lots of 25 worms and handypacks , day to order is Sunday before midnight , things appear back "in stock" then.
http://www.livefoods.com.au/live-insects/Silkworms
a very good supplier is https://www.peacefulsilkworms.com.au/?page_id=374
often can find silkworms (very cheaply) , their eggs , and fresh mulberry leaves on GUMTREE.


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## Overland (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks for the advice my friend, I do admit to liking the learning experience in regards to reptile and bugs alike 

black soldier flies look interesting and could have some good uses for me with composting and lizard feeding

I never knew they had no actual mouth as a fly too 

big day tomorrow, enclosure fitout, small cage to explore outside etc and first full weekend with oomox 


regaurding substrate, would a coir doormat function as a good cage floor cover?

thanks


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## kankryb (Feb 28, 2020)

regaurding substratet people use all kind, I use aspen chips my friend use plastic grass mat other newspaper or cocopeat. I would start with something like newspaper that you can check easy for her droppings and keep clean, just the first month


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## nuttylizardguy (Feb 29, 2020)

Overland said:


> big day tomorrow, enclosure fitout, small cage to explore outside etc and first full weekend with oomox


 I urge no outside time until Oormox is MUCH BIGGER and less likely to be scared by the experience . ( about 12 months old ).
Make sure the floor area you let Oormox explore is Oormox escape proof , a little skink can very easily end up under large heavy hard to move stuff in the house , or slip under a door.
I suggest limit exploring for now to on your , or on the bed , or on the lounge , less stressful for the little skink.




> regaurding substrate, would a coir doormat function as a good cage floor cover?
> 
> thanks


no. Not appropriate . Better off with course , fibrous , loose and easy to tunnel through.
Steer clear of fine (dusty substrates - fine and medium grade Kritters Krumble is pretty dusty in my experience ( I like course grade better ).
a caresheet : https://www.herpvet.com.au/blue-tongued-skink-care-sheet/


> Substrates that are often used include sand ( I'd avoid it ) , peat, bark, leaf litter, recycled paper pellets and critter crumbles. These all have the tendency to have issues with water absorption and can be difficult to clean. Newspaper, butchers paper of paper towels are easy to clean, pose no risk for obstruction but do not allow for digging, look unnatural and absorb humidity poorly


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 2, 2020)

Overland said:


> Unfortunately mate, it was me who brought up owls not wires, with good reason.
> 
> I work in sydney, live in wollongong so home is dark till dark, naga adjusted likewise, enjoying an occasional grape after some pocket-time around 9pm, commonly seen exploring the house well past 11 when all bluetongues should ( and was originally) asleep at this time, so much so that a friend with his own captive bluetongues questioned how and naga was awake doing her thing long after his own were asleep
> 
> ...



Sorry I am somewhat behind in responding…

Diurnal reptiles are similar to fish when provided with artificial lighting after sunset. They will often remain active while there is sufficient light. This does not mean they are becoming nocturnal. Once its lights out, activity quickly ceases. So don’t worry, Naga will remain diurnal, regardless of your keeping her active inside the house after sunset. Similarly there is no need to be concerned about her “adjusted state”. 

If animals like dogs and cats and the like can go feral and survive in the wild after thousands of years of domestication, I feel sure that Naga’s brief sojourn into the world of humans looking after animals will in no way impede her survival capabilities in an entirely natural habitat.

Hope you enjoy the replacement acquisition equally as much!


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## Overland (Mar 4, 2020)

thats a comfort to know, thankyou 

certainly am enjoying the replacement, slowly warming to its very un-naga like warm hues and green vs nagas white, grey and green

oomox has turned into an "autowash" in that she'll pee on me, get me to change my shirt, then snuggle down into new shirt for a settled warn sleep

one thing I do wonder though, is there a name for the eastern differences?

I can find lizards online with exactly the same colour as naga but also find oomox's colour too, both are easterns though?




[doublepost=1583288593,1583288045][/doublepost]



(old photos of naga sadly...)


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## kankryb (Mar 4, 2020)

Yes they are all eastens, Tiliqua scincoides scincoides, they go from redish Brown to dull grey I think it is about range, northen range more color? Somebody down there will know for sure


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## nuttylizardguy (Mar 5, 2020)

Not really into morphs , but it's my reading that the variation in easterns' colouring and patterning is due to the region the parents originated in , ie Nth QLD, N NSW, S NSW, Victoria , coastal , western plains , etc and likelihood of interspecies matings with closely related species (in the wild).


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