# Electricians..... settle an arguement please



## Woma_Wild (Mar 18, 2013)

I recently purchased a second hand double enclosure cabinet so I'm doing a bit of DIY on it. 
Both sections have 2 x BC lamp holders so rather than get an electrician to re wire them , I purchased BC to ES adapters.

I have been told by an electrician that these adapters are illegal.

Is this true ?


----------



## Planky (Mar 18, 2013)

If u bought them over the counter they can't be that illegal


----------



## Tesla (Mar 18, 2013)

I hear they are a massive fire risk.


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

Planky said:


> If u bought them over the counter they can't be that illegal


You can buy a bong over the counter but if you are caught with a used one you will be charged. Back to the OP I am an electrician but do not work in the house wiring industry but have not heard of these being illegal but as perviously stated they are a fire risk.


----------



## disintegratus (Mar 18, 2013)

Can't buy a bong over the counter in Victoria anymore


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

disintegratus said:


> Can't buy a bong over the counter in Victoria anymore


So we are going to get an inrush of pot smokers coming to Queensland now.


----------



## Lewi_11 (Mar 18, 2013)

What I got told by the bloke at the local reptile shop is that household fittings are only rated to 60watts. This is the reason that all my enclosures have ceramic ES fittings rated to 250watts. I can imagine that the adapters would be a fire hazard because i have seen them partially melt when people have used CHE's in them... I haven't heard that the adapters are illegal, but i wouldn't be surprised if it is true...


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

Lewi_11 said:


> What I got told by the bloke at the local reptile shop is that household fittings are only rated to 60watts. This is the reason that all my enclosures have ceramic ES fittings rated to 250watts. I can imagine that the adapters would be a fire hazard because i have seen them partially melt when people have used CHE's in them... I haven't heard that the adapters are illegal, but i wouldn't be surprised if it is true...


I believe the BC (house fitting) bases are rated up to 100W but it is the adaptor BC to ES (screw in type) is only rated at 60W.


----------



## Snowman (Mar 18, 2013)

I've never heard of adaptors being illegal. But the above is correct. They are usually only rated for 60w and certainly not rated for ceramic heat emitters. 
(I'm a sparky).


----------



## geckodan (Mar 18, 2013)

So to use the adapters for 20 W lamps is considered OK and "safe" ?


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

geckodan said:


> So to use the adapters for 20 W lamps is considered OK and "safe" ?


I would not use them but as long as the connections are tight and you are within the rating it should not catch fire.


----------



## Woma_Wild (Mar 18, 2013)

the current fittings are plastic BC . the adapters are ceramic. I plan on using max 40W


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

Woma_Wild said:


> the current fittings are plastic BC . the adapters are ceramic. I plan on using max 40W


 Like i said as long as the connections are good and you are within the rating as you are it should not catch fire. It is up to you but i would not on one of my enclosures.


----------



## Snowman (Mar 18, 2013)

geckodan said:


> So to use the adapters for 20 W lamps is considered OK and "safe" ?


Yep


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Mar 18, 2013)

Taking risks with electrical fittings... hmmm. You could lose your house, so it could turn out a bit more expensive than 30 mins of a sparkie's time...

Probably too young to remember the fire at the ARP...

Jamie


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

Just a question slightly off topic but for breeders are your snakes and equipment insurable? I am asking because a lot more stuff is these days if you pay the premium and I have my dogs insured.


----------



## Snowman (Mar 18, 2013)

I've looked around and could only find insurance to cover enclosures etc.


----------



## paultheo (Mar 18, 2013)

i've tried too but no luck, anyone out there who knows of an insurance mob that likes reptile people can you please hook me up?


----------



## bigjoediver (Mar 18, 2013)

Wattages stated for light fittings are usually for a specific type of lamp, plastic BC fittings are normally rated for incandescent lamps, as soon as you put anything else in them the wattage rating is meaningless. A 60w CHE runs a great deal hotter than a 60w incandescent lamp. I used to work in a lighting factory.


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

bigjoediver said:


> Wattages stated for light fittings are usually for a specific type of lamp, plastic BC fittings are normally rated for incandescent lamps, as soon as you put anything else in them the wattage rating is meaningless. A 60w CHE runs a great deal hotter than a 60w incandescent lamp. I used to work in a lighting factory.


Good point about the CHE I didn't even think about them as I don't use them.


----------



## Snowman (Mar 18, 2013)

bigjoediver said:


> Wattages stated for light fittings are usually for a specific type of lamp, plastic BC fittings are normally rated for incandescent lamps, as soon as you put anything else in them the wattage rating is meaningless. A 60w CHE runs a great deal hotter than a 60w incandescent lamp. I used to work in a lighting factory.



Yeah thats what I meant bellow... 



Snowman said:


> I've never heard of adaptors being illegal. But the above is correct. They are usually only rated for 60w and certainly not rated for ceramic heat emitters.
> (I'm a sparky).


----------



## Woma_Wild (Mar 18, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Taking risks with electrical fittings... hmmm. You could lose your house, so it could turn out a bit more expensive than 30 mins of a sparkie's time...
> 
> *Probably too young to remember the fire at the ARP...*
> 
> Jamie



I simply asked a question about adapters. as it pans out, they are deemed unsafe. end of story. I hardly see the relevance of your smart comment Jamie. besides, I'm probably older than you and I'm a female... what of it???

Thank you to everyone else. much appreciated.


----------



## Tesla (Mar 18, 2013)

Woma_Wild said:


> I simply asked a question about adapters. as it pans out, they are deemed unsafe. end of story. I hardly see the relevance of your smart comment Jamie. besides, I'm probably older than you and I'm a female... what of it???
> 
> Thank you to everyone else. much appreciated.



I dunno. He is pretty old.


----------



## dragonlover1 (Mar 18, 2013)

personally any "adaptor" is too much risk.I replace anything that doesn't suit my requirements


----------



## kr0nick (Mar 18, 2013)

This is kind of hijacking this thread.

But if adaptrrs are unsafe especially for hotter lamps where do people get their fittings/sockets?

Example I use GU10 bulbs for my ackie and GTP and they are both on ES/GU10 adaptors from ebay but I think they look ugly and want to buy some nice looking fittings and get A sparky to wire A cord to it for me.

For ES style lamps I either use ceramic reptile fittings or those black plastic outdoor type things from hardware stores. These are only for lizards though other then my GTP my snakes only got heatcord with A heavy insulated hide box to cut costs


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 18, 2013)

Snowman said:


> I've never heard of adaptors being illegal. But the above is correct. They are usually only rated for 60w and certainly not rated for ceramic heat emitters.
> (I'm a sparky).


I thought the term "sparky" was used because builders couldn't spell electrician not a term used by electrical engineers.


----------



## Snowman (Mar 19, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I thought the term "sparky" was used because builders couldn't spell electrician not a term used by electrical engineers.


Hahaha. Im still not an engineer and probably wont finish my degree. I work full time as an electrical designer which I really enjoy. The extra study is handy but not necessary to be a designer. I've always called my self a sparky rather than an electrician. I think the correct term on our license is electrical mechanic.


----------



## Wing_Nut (Mar 19, 2013)

Isn't 'Sparky' an acronym for how electricians view being on time?

Sometimes
Possibly
Approximately
Rarely
Kinda
Yeah.....But


----------



## andynic07 (Mar 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Hahaha. Im still not an engineer and probably wont finish my degree. I work full time as an electrical designer which I really enjoy. The extra study is handy but not necessary to be a designer. I've always called my self a sparky rather than an electrician. I think the correct term on our license is electrical mechanic.


Yeah my license is electrical fitter/mechanic/linesperson but I prefer sparky too, I do think wing-nut has hit the nail on the head with his acronym though. krOnik , the GU10 fitting can be purchased from any bunnings or lighting specialty store , they are just down lights.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Mar 19, 2013)

Woma_Wild said:


> I simply asked a question about adapters. as it pans out, they are deemed unsafe. end of story. I hardly see the relevance of your smart comment Jamie. besides, I'm probably older than you and I'm a female... what of it???
> 
> Thank you to everyone else. much appreciated.



I'm sorry if I offended you W_W, it was not my intention to appear critical or sarcastic, I was just making the point for the benefit of ALL members who were interested in this thread that risk-taking with electrics can have catastrophic consequences, far beyond a minor scorching of the enclosure. My post was not aimed at you personally, so I think you've rather overreacted. As far as the female thing goes, I didn't even notice that you were a female until this morning when I looked up into the top right-hand corner of your post. I'm 64 and not nearly as sexist as you seem to think I am lol!

Jamie


----------



## Woma_Wild (Mar 19, 2013)

it's all good Python.

I'm new to all this and have had to teach myself everything. Not too easy. I ask questions here because I know that ppl here are full of info and 90% are extemely helpful.

I have no intention of doing any re wiring myself - nor will I use the adapters.


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 19, 2013)

All fittings for enclosures should be ceramic and high temp wire should be used also, along with a sheet of fibre cement or similar in between the fitting and the enclosure ceiling.Anything less is asking for trouble.


----------



## Woma_Wild (Mar 19, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> All fittings for enclosures should be ceramic and high temp wire should be used also, along with a sheet of fibre cement or similar in between the fitting and the enclosure ceiling.Anything less is asking for trouble.



excellent. thank you so much. valuable info like this should be pinned so others know the correct way to set up lighting.


----------



## dr_juggalo (Mar 22, 2013)

Biggest thing to remember about the lighting is to make sure you have the correct ventilation around the socket and globe. Most downlights catch fire because the transformers get covered in insulation. If you can get a licensed sparky in (make sure they have a license), they should be able to tell you exactly what air space should be around it and what sort of covering is possible, to not cause any issues


----------



## mike72 (Mar 22, 2013)

I have used three different "brands" of these fitting before and all failed (melted, shorted, fell apart) within a few months. One was even a ceramic model.

My advice is to stay well clear of clear of any such adaptors, however i never used them for low wattage bulbs (<40W).


----------



## Snowman (Apr 3, 2013)

Hahahaha. I can't believe you wired it that way. You've run neutral to earth. It works, but is so wrong. Nothing like having 240 run through your earth wiring. Lucky for the M.E.N. 
Either you have no safety switch or its not working.


----------



## Snowman (Apr 3, 2013)

DIY wiring is dangerous kids.


----------



## benc63 (Apr 3, 2013)

Totally wrong! 
Very dangerous the way that you have set up.


----------



## Snowman (Apr 3, 2013)

Lets not get too carried away and break the site rule of giving info to wire cages. 
I think the post I quoted should stay though as an example of how easy it is to get it wrong. The biggest risk is people thinking because it works, it must be fine. And it is fine, until you burn your house down or kill someone.


----------



## AndrewHenderson (Apr 3, 2013)

Ok, I'm speechless......If you don't know what you are doing 100% then LEAVE IT ALONE!

And in case you haven't got the hint unplug the frigging thing becuase it's wired very wrong.....


----------



## reptalica (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks for the edits.......

It's not on......only had it on briefly once......is unplugged well and truly and had been since my half baked effort.

Anyways moving right along........

Back on topic........>>>>>>>>big


----------



## Snowman (Apr 3, 2013)

reptalica said:


> Thanks for the edits.......
> 
> It's not on......only had it on briefly once......is unplugged well and truly and had been since my half baked effort.
> 
> ...


kinda lucky you mentioned it though. Always get your work checked 

To the mod, I wasn't promoting self wiring. So please change my description where it says "promoting self wiring". It's slander and defamation to say that is why my post was removed......
I was the one who pointed out that it was done dangerously and wrong. I can self wire as I am licensed to do so. I would never promote someone without an A grade electrical license to wire anything.


----------



## reptalica (Apr 3, 2013)

Yeah, anyways I had the flame suit on prepared in more ways than one. 

Silly thing is I'm at work and assumed that's how I did it......I'd pmsl if I get home and realised it was right all along.

*checks annual leave roster for much needed holiday*


----------



## Snowman (Apr 3, 2013)

reptalica said:


> Yeah, anyways I had the flame suit on prepared in more ways than one.
> 
> Silly thing is I'm at work and assumed that's how I did it......I'd pmsl if I get home and realised it was right all along.
> 
> *checks annual leave roster for much needed holiday*


What you did would still work, it's just wrong and creates a dangerous situation.


----------



## J-A-X (Apr 3, 2013)

Ok, now i have a bit more time to check the threads that i deleted i have returned some but have edited them to remove the quotes that refer to the DIY wiring. id like to publicly apologise to both Snowman and Benc63 for any discomfort I caused by making the "illegal wiring" comments when I gave the reason for deleting. I know that Snowman in particular would never suggest such a thing. 

this thread has been way to informative to allow any suggestion of doing your own wiring into it, Hence my over enthusiasm with the delete key.


----------



## cement (Apr 3, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I thought the term "sparky" was used because builders couldn't spell electrician not a term used by electrical engineers.



No mate, thats not quite right.
We call them sparky's out of respect, and as a recognition of their intelligence, you know "bright spark".
Basically.... a bricky with brains.:lol:


----------



## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2013)

I had a professionally wired cage catch on fire the other day because the sockets were rated at 75w but the wire wasn't. Lucky I was home at the time. So many things to consider. I have a BC to ES adapter in my blue tongue enclosure but it never has a very high wattage globe in it and so never exceeds the normal load of the BC. The do look ugly though and the ES to G10 fittings I bought of ebay all stopped working after a couple of days completely ruining my plans to save on electricity.


----------



## andynic07 (Apr 4, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> I had a professionally wired cage catch on fire the other day because the sockets were rated at 75w but the wire wasn't. Lucky I was home at the time. So many things to consider. I have a BC to ES adapter in my blue tongue enclosure but it never has a very high wattage globe in it and so never exceeds the normal load of the BC. The do look ugly though and the ES to G10 fittings I bought of ebay all stopped working after a couple of days completely ruining my plans to save on electricity.


I bet so many bad stories start off with "I bought _______ on ebay and"


----------



## Snowman (Apr 4, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> I had a professionally wired cage catch on fire the other day because the sockets were rated at 75w but the wire wasn't.



Find it hard to believe that you had a cable that wasn't rated to 75W. 
75/240=.3125 
So a 75w globe would draw .3125A 

You mean to tell me a professional (an A grade Electrician) wired the cage in less than .5mm wire cable? The standard is .75mm minimum. 

Bear in mind a 1mm cable installed in air can have a circuit breaker of 16A

It really doesn't sound like any electrician I know and I've worked in teams of upto 200 sparkies on big jobs.


----------



## Sean51 (Apr 4, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Find it hard to believe that you had a cable that wasn't rated to 75W.
> 75/240=.3125
> So a 75w globe would draw .3125A
> 
> ...



Maybe they used a strand out of the .75


----------



## reptalica (Apr 4, 2013)

Or .75th of a strand. :shock:


----------



## andynic07 (Apr 4, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Find it hard to believe that you had a cable that wasn't rated to 75W.
> 75/240=.3125
> So a 75w globe would draw .3125A
> 
> ...


I think that maybe the person may have their terminology wrong and possibly meant to say that the cable wasn't rated for the heat. Still a bit of a stretch for a qualified electrician but more believable than not being able to carry the current. Possibly more likely to be a cheap fitting failing.


----------



## Ramsayi (Apr 4, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I think that maybe the person may have their terminology wrong and possibly meant to say that the cable wasn't rated for the heat.



This ^^.Most enclosures I see are not wired with hight temp stuff.It is only a matter of time before the insulation fails.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2013)

It was the wiring that caught fire, not the fitting and yes, it was a bought enclosure, from a shop. I know this doesn't guarantee a sparky wired it but you would hope so.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Apr 4, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I bet so many bad stories start off with "I bought _______ on ebay and"



I've bought a lot of good stuff on ebay, reptile related and other, these fittings were obviously not good.


----------



## andynic07 (Apr 4, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> It was the wiring that caught fire, not the fitting and yes, it was a bought enclosure, from a shop. I know this doesn't guarantee a sparky wired it but you would hope so.


Unfortunately far too often enclosure builders do not get electricians in to wire them. Not saying this is the case with yours but a possibility and usually it is the connection spots that heat up or possibly melted from the ceramic fitting not the wire itself unless it is so small that it can not carry the current of the heat source which is not likely. Probably best to not blame an electrician for wiring unless you are certain that it was done by an electrician. Glad you caught the problem before it got too bad, good job.


----------



## andynic07 (Apr 4, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> I've bought a lot of good stuff on ebay, reptile related and other, these fittings were obviously not good.


If you do the research you can get good stuff from ebay but there is also so much cheap crap.


----------



## Boyds.boy77 (Apr 13, 2013)

Good to see another sparky who knows his aus standards ,a lot of people don't know or realise how bad electrical fires can get, see some shockers


----------



## pixie (Apr 19, 2013)

on the topic of electricians - how much (roughly) does it cost to get someone to wire up an enclosure? and can anyone recommend someone in the northern suburbs of melbourne?
thanks


----------



## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

pixie said:


> on the topic of electricians - how much (roughly) does it cost to get someone to wire up an enclosure? and can anyone recommend someone in the northern suburbs of melbourne?
> thanks


Depends what you want done. Usually a carton of beer does the trick... It's probably hard to get a sparky to come out for such a small install. Best thing is to have a friend or friend of a friend who is a sparky who can help you out. Failing that, look at the adds in the local paper and ask them how much for what you want done. I certainly would think $50-$100, but $100 is getting a bit high. It should only take 20-30min if its just a few light fittings with cords.


----------



## Woma_Wild (Apr 20, 2013)

since starting this thread, I have come across 2 aussie reptile suppliers selling the adapters in question. 
there is no wiring needed with these, they screw in like a bulb so I'm not sure where all the talk of self wiring started. lol

But like I said before, I'm not re wiring anything. In fact, I'm pulling out all the existing wiring that's in there just in case.


----------



## wokka (Apr 20, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> If you do the research you can get good stuff from ebay but there is also so much cheap crap.


That's what shops are for. They can afford the time to work out whats good and the rest gets sold on ebay!


----------



## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

wokka said:


> Shops need to ensure their products are good or they wont get repeat business. They have a reputation to protect whereas some internet brands only need to change their name to shake bad past reputations. For the record Rodentfarm does not have an internet site, but i am sure cheap rubbish is available on the internet.


I wasn't arguing with the fact that there is a lot of rubbish on the Internet but if you look around you can find quality goods for a lower price because they have less overheads. There are a lot of good Internet sites around with long lasting reputations like some of our sponsors.


----------



## Bananapeel (Apr 20, 2013)

I use a halogen light in a ceramic fitting. Obviously it needs a GU10/ES adaptor as the halogen is GU10 and the fitting is ES. Is this dangerous or whatever? It's only a 35w little halogen...


----------



## Woma_Wild (Apr 29, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> I use a halogen light in a ceramic fitting. Obviously it needs a GU10/ES adaptor as the halogen is GU10 and the fitting is ES. Is this dangerous or whatever? It's only a 35w little halogen...



IMO, if a BC to ES adapter isn't safe (according to everyone here ) then nor would an ES to GU10. my adapters are ceramic also. They're sold everywhere but if deemed unsafe then they shouldn't be used. 
maybe wait until someone returns to this thread to confirm.


----------



## bigjoediver (Apr 29, 2013)

99.9% of light fittings are not designed to be used in a enclosed box where it is harder to dissipate heat, this is where the issues of safety and suitability come in. Pick up any lamp in a store and it not only tells you the max wattage lamp to use but also the type of lamp to use. Just because something fits, it's not necessarily right. Put an incandescent bulb into something that was designed to take a compact flouro and see how long it lasts before becoming brittle or melting. All these adapters are probably legal and fine but only if used in the right situation. FYI I'm not an electrician but used to work in a lighting factory.


----------

