# Dog question



## DeadCricket (Dec 4, 2011)

I got my first dog a few months ago. She is a Bull Arab x Bull Mastif and now about 7 months old.

My question is this; does she eat too much?

Currently she eats 500g of wet food nearly every night. Some nights I don't feed her. Maybe once or twice a week. She has biscuits that she grazes across the day. I don't measure these I just fill up her bowl every couple of days. I also treat her with chicken necks or something every now and then.

She is up to date on all shots and worming.

She doesnt have any fat on her. but this seems to be SO much more than every one else feeds their dog

I should mention that she eats about a thousand xmas beetles a night lol


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## nagini-baby (Dec 4, 2011)

wet food goes through dogs esp the tin variety from what ive seen working in kennels. bickies are great for putting weight on, as is rice. although it depends on the dog wether you can let them graze on food all day, alot of people will not recoment doing so, i no i couldn do it with my boy as he would scoff the lot and be as big as a house. for our guys the rule i use is you shouldnt have bones protruding and should see just a tiny shadow of the last one or two ribs, and they should have a waist before their hips, not sunken in so much as at least some marker that the ribs have stopped and the hips are about to start. if that makes sence. you have to remember also that you have a big dog, they eat alot! our shepherd will easily eat 4 scoops of bickies and a patty of leading raw in one day. and hes around 30 kg and by no means a fat shepherd


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## phantomreptiles (Dec 4, 2011)

Most wet food contains little nutrients, if you are feeding a quality dry food it should not be huge quantities. 
For example my dog is 20kg and gets 3/4s of a cup morning and night.
If she gets a chicken neck or wing that amount is reduced. No bones, as I don't agree with them. (this is my opinion, no flaming thanks)


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## r3ptilian (Dec 4, 2011)

Maybe cut her intake of Chrissy beetles back a tad. The rest of her diet sounds about right. I had an Arab/Mastiff/Staghound cross that would quite happily demolish about 1kg of red meat (roo or buffalo) every day as well as dry food. Although he was a hunting dog and was constantly on the go.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 4, 2011)

Not much I can do about the xmas beetles, she loves chasing them lol.

By all accounts she isn't overweight. I'm lucky enough that she doesn't just munch all her biscuits, she just grazes when she is hungry. 

She is an active dog but not a hunter. 

By wet food I mean anything that isn't biscuits. Sometimes I cook up rice, meat, a few veg, some fish sauce etc and maybe some gravy or something. Sometimes she has tinned food. Sometimes I just lightly fry a steak for her, she is a bit young for completely raw meat though she should be fine soon. 

She is going to eat like an american mcdonalds mascot soon. Might go roo hunting and just let her have her fill.


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 4, 2011)

I have exactly the same breed s you, see my album Kaeleb, he was eating about 600 - 800g of raw meaty bones, mince and veges at that age spread over a couple of feeds. He is now almost 18 months and eats about 800g of raw meaty bones and mince. Don't know the equivalent in commercial food terms but with raw it is about 20-30 % (more like 40-45% for growing pups under 12 months) of there weight per week dependent on activity level, so for Kaeleb at the moment 6-7 kgs. He actually is just a tad too big I think so going to cut him back to 700g. Fasting is recommended for adults once or twice a week but not pups. I don't fast mine though they would drive me beserk if I did.


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## r3ptilian (Dec 5, 2011)

My dogs were only ever fed raw meat and bones never cooked, not only because cooked bones can splinter and cause internal problems and are harder to digest but also because wild dogs ie. Wolves, Coyotes, African Hunting Dogs etc only eat raw meat. It seemed more natural and they got all of the nutrients that cooking removes, plus they were also supplemented with quality dry food.


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## Tsubakai (Dec 5, 2011)

How much does your dog weigh?


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm really not sure how much she weighs. She gets weighed at the vet but we haven't been there since her last visit. I would hesitate a guess at 5-8kg. Very big gap but its not easy to tell by just picking her up

puppies generally don't eat raw meat in the wild. The mother swallows some and brings it back for them. Meaning its been partially cooked by her digestive acids before they eat it.


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## CHEWY (Dec 5, 2011)

Tinned food isn't great. As people have said, not the best as far as nutrients go, but also dog's that are purely fed on tinned food get bad gums and teeth pretty quick.
If you get a quality dry food, this is all they need. Nutritionally balanced and they usually have a recommendation on how much to feed your dog depending on their weight. (You can get food fomulated for pups, adults, elderly and everything in between. The ratios of protein, fat etc have been tweeked for each age group).
I work with labradors. On average, they are 27kg and get between 250g and 400g of Royal Canin (This is per day max). They used to get Eucanuba and a little bit more by weight. Apparently the Canin has more nutrients by weight.
Give your dog a marrow bone or something for the like one a week/fortnight. This will ensure healthy teeth and gums, as well as keep your dog out of trouble for a few hours.
There is no problem with prepping your dog's own food. Just remember that dogs are omnivores, so give them some veges. Start now, it's easy to get a pup to start on them, a spoilt dog who lived on T-bones all his life will turn his nose up at brocolli.
If you're looking for the easy way, dry food only is the way to go. I'd suggest stop leaving a bowl full of biscuits around. A puppy can handle it (pups grow too fast to become overweight), but it won't take too long before your dog to start getting tubby.
As it has been mentioned, a good looking dog has a skinny tumy and the last two ribs showing.

Enjoy your dog, they are a great pet.

JD


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 5, 2011)

DeadCricket said:


> I'm really not sure how much she weighs. She gets weighed at the vet but we haven't been there since her last visit. I would hesitate a guess at 5-8kg. Very big gap but its not easy to tell by just picking her up
> 
> puppies generally don't eat raw meat in the wild. The mother swallows some and brings it back for them. Meaning its been partially cooked by her digestive acids before they eat it.



Not at 6 months old, theyed be eating by themselves long before that.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

It can take her 3 or 4 days to finish the biscuits if she isn't feeling hungry so I'm quite lucky. Its probably because she has never had to compete for food. She wouldnt have any notion of it not being there when she was hungry


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## miss2 (Dec 5, 2011)

she doesnt eat the bikkies because she knows she does not need to as she will get yummier food later.
if you get the correct dry food it is complete and balanced and has no need for tinned crp.
the premium dry is expensive so i would recommend you use super coat. it is the preimum of the cheap stuff.
feel free to mix in vegs, rice bones all that sort of stuff occasionaly but just remeber NO TINNED( that includes no meat rolls or any of that other stuff)
i am not just a nutter, i have trained in domestic pet nutrion lol


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## Exotic_Doc (Dec 5, 2011)

Dont let the dog make the descision and follow a system. Choose a quality dry kibble, and raw ( you can do either of these alone). Feed her 3 times a day in small portions. Put the food down for 10 minutes. If she doesnt eat it, remove the food and make her wait till the next feed ( this is not cruel, and dogs will not starve themselves). Ideally you would want some rib showing but not too much. When cutting the food into portions go half kibble, half raw. And be very strict on the 10 minute eating rule. This teaches her that the food will be removed both ways and she wont want to be hungry. Goodluck
a


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## kawasakirider (Dec 5, 2011)

I'd recommend a good brand of food if you're going to feed her dry stuff. Most of the biscuits on the shelves are crap! If you're worried about the amount she is eating then you can feed her the same amount, but substitute the things like chicken for veggies. I feed mine chicken breast/necks mixed with vegetables and dry food. Pour a bit of boiling water on top so it's like a soup and all the smell goes through the veggies and she'll eat it. These will keep her satisfied but won't put on weight. Alternate between a few feeds of that then one feed of a meaty bone.

Make sure she gets enough meat though, the above diet is just what I use for maintenance, not a growing pup. 500g for a growing dog like that isn't too much.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I feed her at different times and different foods, with different veg/meat levels to simulate a wild diet. some days she just gets meaty bones. She isn't fat at all. She has perfect definition and I'm complimented on her very often. I just thought that it was a lot of food. I'm trying to work out how she fits 500g + of food in lol


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## miss2 (Dec 5, 2011)

"with different veg/meat levels to simulate a wild diet" you might want to remember that she is not in the wild and is humanised so different times and a huge varried diet is not going to be the best for your pooch.
a pup should be on a higher fat content diet untill approx 1 year old.

have you had a dog before?


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## MissFuller (Dec 5, 2011)

tin food if anything is bad from everything iv been tould i feed my bully half a kilo of horse and beef, kidney heart and the rest of the organs mixed with working dog kibble and hes tank like no fat all muscle but then again i run or walk him every day i gess its how u want your dog also my dad used to be in the dog unit 4 the cops and he uses just the expensive kibble and all the scraps from dinner and afew eggs to shine there coat up nice


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

I haven't had a dog before but I do know that I'm raising mine a bit different from most. Here she is part of the pack, not a pet. She is encouraged to have her personality. You can often find her making sure one of my housemates kids are ok, or making sure they don't go too far. She also seems to think my left elbow has fleas lol, she is always grooming it. Each of the others have shown her they are higher in the pack and I have to approve of visitors. Its a different bond. I let her off the leash when walking and she never lets me out of site. Even when she worked out she could get through the fence (before the chicken wire) all she did was come to the window for my room to let me know she could get out.


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## miss2 (Dec 5, 2011)

awesome!
it sounds like there is a lot of love there, u to her and her back at you which is lovely to hear


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## Firedrake (Dec 5, 2011)

Exotic_Doc said:


> Dont let the dog make the descision and follow a system. Choose a quality dry kibble, and raw ( you can do either of these alone). Feed her 3 times a day in small portions. Put the food down for 10 minutes. If she doesnt eat it, remove the food and make her wait till the next feed ( this is not cruel, and dogs will not starve themselves). Ideally you would want some rib showing but not too much. When cutting the food into portions go half kibble, half raw. And be very strict on the 10 minute eating rule. This teaches her that the food will be removed both ways and she wont want to be hungry. Goodluck
> a




That just encourages her to scarf her food though, and that in itself is bad for her stomach. She shouldn't have to feel like she gets one or two shots a day at filling her stomach. If she knows you come outside to feed her, that's what she will look for every time you go outside. I know, because the people I live with have two dogs and the only time they go outside is to feed them so if you go out to hang up the washing or fill their water, they're there straight away to see what you have, jumping on everyone to see if they have food. IMO if she's happy to graze on bikkies and isn't fussed about how fast to eat don't worry about it.

You will find what she's happy with and by the sounds of it she knows when to stop eating so if you feel like you give her too much or not enough she'll more than likely let you know. If she eats way too much she'll probably throw up. If she doesn't get enough she'll eat a few more bikkies. 

Now, are we going to get any pics of your gorgeous girl?


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 5, 2011)

They are way harder to train properly when allowed to graze at will and Bull Arabs and Bull Mastiffs are both incredibly stubborn and willful as it is.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> They are way harder to train properly when allowed to graze at will and Bull Arabs and Bull Mastiffs are both incredibly stubborn and willful as it is.



I'm training her without the food orientation. I'm using body language and behaviour as her alpha to teach her how she should behave.



Firedrake said:


> That just encourages her to scarf her food though, and that in itself is bad for her stomach. She shouldn't have to feel like she gets one or two shots a day at filling her stomach. If she knows you come outside to feed her, that's what she will look for every time you go outside. I know, because the people I live with have two dogs and the only time they go outside is to feed them so if you go out to hang up the washing or fill their water, they're there straight away to see what you have, jumping on everyone to see if they have food. IMO if she's happy to graze on bikkies and isn't fussed about how fast to eat don't worry about it.
> 
> You will find what she's happy with and by the sounds of it she knows when to stop eating so if you feel like you give her too much or not enough she'll more than likely let you know. If she eats way too much she'll probably throw up. If she doesn't get enough she'll eat a few more bikkies.
> 
> Now, are we going to get any pics of your gorgeous girl?



I just upgraded my phones os so got rid of my photos. I will take some more and post them


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 5, 2011)

Are you sure shes a Bull Arab x Bull Mastiff, she doesn't look to be. She looks too small. She's nice whatever the case. This is mine, first 2 pics he was only 14 weeks.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm sure she has a bit of pointer in her somewhere. 

The photos don't do her size any justice. That red fire hose toy would be a good foot - foot and a half long


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 5, 2011)

OK, just you said she was 8 kgs Kaeleb would have ben at least 15 at 7 months old. Bull Arabs generally have some pointer blood. I also forgot mine is 1/4 boxer on the Bull Arab side, he is not as tall as I expected he'd be but he still hasn't finished growing yet.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 5, 2011)

Yeh, rough guess by picking her up. When the kegs at work weigh 65kg it all kind of blends into lighter than a keg or heavier lol


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## Jarden (Dec 13, 2011)

Hmm from what ive heard thats a big breed of dog ? and at that age the weight seems a bit light ? I have a 8 month old Shar pei whos only fed on Quality Dry food and he weighs a good 20 + kgs and hes not fat


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## slim6y (Dec 13, 2011)

I just had this discussion not too long ago actually - and in the end, I use Hills Science Diet - Puppy (large breed) and K9 freeze dried raw food, it's quite the stuff!

There are a bunch of shops that sell this in Queensland as well, it's something he absolutely loves to eat!


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## Jarden (Dec 13, 2011)

Yeah and its also around 100$ + for 8kg bag and if u got a big dog he will eat you out of pocket lol


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## DanNG (Dec 13, 2011)

Nice dog, we picked up our first pup on Saturday.. I'm trying to train through body language and actions etc like you mentioned... Seems to be working, pup has been sleeping each night by itself no probs, little cry until I was come down and stare.. Any downsides to this? 
We are feeding it royal canin dry puppy


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## slim6y (Dec 13, 2011)

Jarden said:


> Yeah and its also around 100$ + for 8kg bag and if u got a big dog he will eat you out of pocket lol



I spend more on myself - I admit it's expensive, there's no doubt. I pay around $200 a month to feed the dog... Well... Let's see, what's that per week... (200 x 12 / 52) - wow, that's less than $50 per week!

Not a lot really when you're concerned with the health of your animal. 

Now, yes, my dog eats around 400 - 500g per day, not quite the hefty 800g yet! But he'll get there. 

I think I can quite safely say that the cost of feeding my animals the best they can get is going to be significantly cheaper than the cost of requiring continual vet treatment for feeding on low grade foods. Call it insurance and peace of mind I guess


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## DeadCricket (Dec 13, 2011)

DanNG said:


> Nice dog, we picked up our first pup on Saturday.. I'm trying to train through body language and actions etc like you mentioned... Seems to be working, pup has been sleeping each night by itself no probs, little cry until I was come down and stare.. Any downsides to this?
> We are feeding it royal canin dry puppy



You just have to teach your pup to interact with you how you want it to. Eg, constant crying or barking won't get it anywhere. When mine wants attention she comes over and sits next to you (most of the time, still not 100%) sometimes she will use a paw to give your leg a pat if you still are ignoring her. Much like 'shake'.

I've only had 2 problems with her training so far, birds and storms freak her out. Storms are obvious but birds came from 2 huge crows bullying her out of her food when she was young. Wouldn't even let her.out of her kennel. 

The other possible downside, if you see it that way, is how protective they become. If I have a few of the snakes out cruising the front lawn she will come to the gate and won't calm down

And if you sneeze or cough or something, she won't leave you alone until she knows you're ok.


I lifted her up again with the idea of guessing her weight and I would put her a bit over 20kg. Not easy to tell. Also she is around knee height on me so about 50-60cm tall


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## Jarden (Dec 13, 2011)

Well i had a problem with my dog also , He was scared ****less of the leash ever since i got him...... Left it on him for 20 minutes at a time few times a day he gradually started to walk around with it on at the start i put it on he wouldnt move the whole time it was on. Put it on him this morning and he was up walking around the house , So i thought id give it a shot and walk him upto the park. To my supprise he was fine abit flighty at times but over all he was good  thats my post for the day haha


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## notechistiger (Dec 14, 2011)

I don't believe in all that alpha crap. We're their family, not their bosses. They do what we want to please us, not because we bully them and "demand" their respect.

As for your food, if your dog is doing fine on the food she is now there's really no need to change. If you notice bloating, allergic reactions, disgusting farts/breath, etc., then it's time to look into alternative foods. As for is it too much, there's no real guideline that works for every dog. It's great everyone's telling you how much they feed their dogs, but their dogs could be much more active or much less. You can visually weigh your dog though. If she's starting to get a little too fat, give her less food. If she's getting too thin and you can start to see her hip bones or ribs, feed her some more.


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## Firedrake (Dec 14, 2011)

Alpha doesn't mean bully, I don't know why people think that -_- It provides them with a secure LEADER so they don't have to do all the stressing about where people are and what they're doing! It's like you don't let your kids worry about the bills and what you're having for dinner. It stops them being all panicky every time you step out the door because they don't know where you're going and didn't say you could leave. In a pack of dogs, yes even domestic ones, there will always be a leader to choose what happens and the others look up to it. 'Alpha' status simply means the dog looks to you for direction, not that they're **** scared of you. In fact a dog that is scared of you is even less likely to do what you say.


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## DeadCricket (Dec 14, 2011)

From what I've seen, the female teaches the puppies about the way the pack works from day dot. The easiest and least stressful way, for both parties, I've found for teaching my dog how to behave in my house is simply to communicate with her in the language she is taught to understand from birth. Alphas exist all over nature. I understand that society has recently developed a dislike for the idea of an alpha male but I'm raising a dog, not a pet. She doesn't just blindly obey because she is scared I will hurt her or because she thinks she will get a treat. She chooses to live the way I find acceptable because this is her pack, her family and it would be even more of a mad house if I let her run it. I've seen too many dogs left to own devices out in the yard simply because they grew out of becoming a puppy and now the owner doesn't know how to handle them. I treat her with the same respect I treat my reptiles. She also communicates with me using her body language. Anyway, thats my little two cents.

You don't have a pet, you have chosen to live with an animal. Can't handle it, get a gold fish


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## ShaunMorelia (Dec 14, 2011)

We only feed our dogs Hills Science Diet Active.
at 25kg ea they just get 200g of these biscuits a day and thats it.

I refuse to feed them chicken necks or the likes after seeing many dogs come into vets with them stuck in their throats or not digesting them properly and getting stuck on the way through. Same with raw bones.

My girls are a good weight and size for what they are and never lose weight.
their crap is small and as it should be.
It only works out to be $2 a day each for them to be fed on this diet.


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