# WA keepers: know where to find these?



## PerthHerper (Jul 30, 2018)

It's been a while since the latest additions to the Keepers List, but I still only see the garden variety species for sale at stores and Classified sites (not that there's anything wrong with them). Does anyone know of any keepers in WA with:

Demansia psammophis
Dendrelaphis punctulata
Boiga irregularis
Morelia spilota variegata
Morelia carinata
Antaresia childreni
Heleioporus albopunctatus
Pseudechis butleri
Also, what is the process to obtain specimens from interstate, or if this is not possible, what is the process of collecting wild-caught specimens?

And lastly, what is the process for upgrading my license to a higher category?

Cheers,
Forrest


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## Blighty (Jul 31, 2018)

At this stage it is not possible to import pythons from other states, even if they are a native species. This is especially an issue with the Rough Scale Python as only a few were ever wild caught. The Mike Swan book goes into it a bit, but the tl;dr is that it took multiple time consuming visits to remote areas of the Kimberly region to ultimately only acquire about 5 of them. Those went over east and became that initial breeding stock. 

Because of the inability to import, you are still unable to acquire one. It is probably a similar story with the Darwin's and I suppose Children's. Someone else might be able to chime in there. 

In regards to the licenses. Cat 2 and 3 are trivial to acquire with no experience needed. Cat 4 requires 12 months of Cat 3 without loss. Cat 5 requires an amount of time with 4 I cannot recall off the top of my head, your annual returns have to have been historically handed in on time and you need to pay for an inspection. 

Apparently the license system may be changing soon here though so keep that in mind (Cat A B C instead). 

Not familiar with the other species or taking permits sorry.


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## PerthHerper (Jul 31, 2018)

Wasn't DPAW (now DBCA) running tests and re-evaluating the import of pythons into WA?


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## Blighty (Jul 31, 2018)

PerthHerper said:


> Wasn't DPAW (now DBCA) running tests and re-evaluating the import of pythons into WA?


The only information I have read was on one of the reptile facebook groups a night or two ago. It was regarding changes to the licensing fees and structure for avian and herp keepers, as well as changes to the fee structure for "_taking_." It was all a draft and they were looking for feedback from the breeders. Nothing on that paperwork mentioned changes to the python import laws (or lack thereof) - I believe they still wish to keep things like the Sunshine virus out of here.


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## PerthHerper (Jul 31, 2018)

Yep, I believe this is the document you’re referring to: https://www.dpaw.wa.gov.au/images/d...scussion_note_aviculture_and_herpetofauna.pdf.

These proposed new changes will certainly make life at least somewhat easier for us WA keepers, being nominate additions to the Approved Keeping List, and being able to collect wild specimens will make many species more available in the pet trade. Dunno what DCBA will make the license fee though.

The DCBA’s concern about the sunshine virus is understandable, it’s been reported from all Australian states except WA and Tas, and the fact that it’s absent here is a good thing but WA python keepers are really paying the price for it.

I think dealers in WA should source WA pythons from the wild, and have the department implement strict protocols and procedures for pythons being imported from interstate.


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## Nero Egernia (Aug 1, 2018)

To add onto the requirements of acquiring a cat 5 licence you'll also need references from a cat 5 keeper, or if providing references from a keeper out of state an equivalent of one. You'll also need shire approval, and having completed a venomous snake handling course if you're seeking to keep venomous snakes. 

In regards to importing reptiles the process is rather simple. I've imported and exported reptiles a few times now. As long as the paperwork's done to satisfaction and the payment completed it usually goes through. You can import any reptile as long is it's on the WA species list. The exception to this is pythons. There's an import ban on pythons. 

I'm not sure whether this is true or not, but I've heard rumors that there have been a few cases of "Sunshine" virus in WA. I believe the import ban to be a silly law, as borders aren't going to stop a virus or other such diseases. What's stopping a wild python that's potentially infected from travelling across the border to Western Australia? If we could import pythons such as the Rough Scaled Python from the eastern states, then there wouldn't be a need to take them from the wild and further put pressure on an already small population.


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## PerthHerper (Aug 1, 2018)

Importing is probably the way to go for any species that is both unavailable in WA and also not a python. Probably a bit pricey tho.

I emailed the DCBA and they came back with:

"Is the python import ban currently being reviewed? Not at the moment. As the ban is due to IBD which is viral in nature & so hard to diagnose & treat. There is no non-fatal IBD test."

Does Sunshine Virus even infect rough scaled pythons?

Also, in regards to M. carinata...

"Are there any signs of Morelia carinata becoming available to keepers in the future? They are available now thru Dealers. Whether they have stock is another matter. They are very rare but you’d need to contact dealers direct. I’d be surprised if any had stocks of this species."

I'm guessing that this means that I can buy rough scaled pythons from dealers, but whether or not the dealers have them is another issue. Nothing that isn't obvious.


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## Molerat52 (Aug 2, 2018)

All of the species from the last two additions are being kept in Western Australia (minus M. variegata and M. carinata). If you are looking to get some of the species you have listed, I would recommend that you get in touch with a licensed taker and let them know what you are wanting and how many. It often requires a few people to put orders for animals to make it financially viable to go and collect animals, particularly Kimberley species. The costs of wild-caught specimen vs captive bred/imported specimen are fairly similar to what I have seen and usually, there is a greater risk with wild-caught animals not acclimating. In my experience, it is much easier to work with a captive bred specimen that is acclimated and has a known lineage, history etc.

The claim that sunshine virus has been observed in WA pythons came from one of the researchers studying it at Murdoch Uni when he came to speak to the reptile society a few years ago. Although the quarantine laws in WA are strict they have helped protect our ecosystems from many of the nasties you see over east and overseas. Its a worry to think keepers would want to risk our pristine ecosystems for the sake of keeping a pet snake. 

Given the costs associated with collecting Rough Scale Pythons (fuel, time and provisions), I doubt you would find anyone willing to put forward the thousands of dollars for a taker to go and get one. They are most likely going to enter the pet trade when the zoos and reg 16 holders here manage to breed their animals.


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## PerthHerper (Aug 2, 2018)

Anyone know any licensed takers?

It appears that the only way to get M. s. variegata and M. carinata into the pet trade is to collect them, or if a change/exception in legislation is made specifically for breeding what few of these two species are currently being kept by zoos, wildlife parks and Reg 16 license holders.

Or, it might be possible for some of the licensed takers that live in the Kimberly to go collect, it might cut costs significantly.

Yes, I do agree that WA's strict quarantine laws have helped with potential biological hazards in the past, but some may argue that these restrictions are far too strict on an already far strict system (damn Bureaucrats).

I'm pretty sure that keepers with some of the newer species (except pythons) had them imported from interstate, e.g. colubrids and YFWS.


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## Nero Egernia (Aug 2, 2018)

Molerat52 said:


> The claim that sunshine virus has been observed in WA pythons came from one of the researchers studying it at Murdoch Uni when he came to speak to the reptile society a few years ago. Although the quarantine laws in WA are strict they have helped protect our ecosystems from many of the nasties you see over east and overseas. Its a worry to think keepers would want to risk our pristine ecosystems for the sake of keeping a pet snake.



And yet we can still import elapids and colubrids, even though it has been known that they can carry the same viruses that can affect pythons. You could also look at reg 16 holders as a hotbed of biological hazards too. They can import species that are not on the species list and their animals are often open for public display and handling. Imagine all the potential unknown diseases being transferred to our so-called pristine ecosystems! And what of the animals offered for sale to tenders? Their backgrounds are completely unknown and I doubt that they have been quarantined for one or two years before being released to dealers. What nasties could they be carrying? Then there's people who smuggle whatever critters they want into Western Australia. There's no denying that they're out there.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for protecting the environment but DCBA's policies are largely outdated.


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