# Exotics in Australia



## Kruger88 (Mar 2, 2012)

Following a recent spate of raids on people with exotics (This info comes from ZooChat another forum) are exotics in Australia really that big?? Now we all have our views about the topic of should we have them or shouldnt we and I am not here to start any arguments but has anyone been offered or know where to buy such exotics (Do not release names or details, merely starting a discussion).

I only know 2 people who keep corn snakes (privately), and while they do not breed them and have very secure enclosures I see no harm in them having them (I am having an anti NPWS year  ) but thats just my point of view...... I wonder what else is out there.......


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## leamos (Mar 2, 2012)

I was offered a 6ft boa, through a friend of a friend who knows a guy, who knew another guy etc hahaha for $300, about 5 years ago, don't know if it was a legit offer or just blowing smoke but needless to say i wasn't interested


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## saximus (Mar 2, 2012)

There was a thread about this fairly recently. Exotics are massive here. You just need to know the right people.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/chit-chat-39/people-readily-admit-owning-exotics-180131/


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## KingSirloin (Mar 2, 2012)

Should we have had the cane toad? That is why exotics are illegal. Nearly every week on here someone loses a snake. 

My vote is NO, for the sake of our own wildlife and environment, simply because not everyone can be trusted to keep them secure, so we must all miss out.


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## Mr.James (Mar 2, 2012)

Make certain species an R5 in NSW. That will make you have to keep natives including elapids for atleast five years before purchasing an exotic.

I do not have any interest in exotics. Just putting it out there for those who do.


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## mad_at_arms (Mar 2, 2012)

Another *yawn* exotic thread?


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## dansfish4tea (Mar 2, 2012)

KingSirloin said:


> Should we have had the cane toad? That is why exotics are illegal. Nearly every week on here someone loses a snake.
> 
> My vote is NO, for the sake of our own wildlife and environment, simply because not everyone can be trusted to keep them secure, so we must all miss out.



I could be wrong but i think he ment exotics as pets (like birds, fish and the like), not to mass release them in qld. personally i don't think it would be much different then the aquarium market 

my 2c


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## KingSirloin (Mar 2, 2012)

dansfish4tea said:


> I could be wrong but i think he ment exotics as pets (like birds, fish and the like), not to mass release them in qld. personally i don't think it would be much different then the aquarium market
> 
> my 2c




Yes he did mean as pets but if they escape into the wild, as many pets do, they could become destructive or competitive to native fauna.



Mr.James said:


> Make certain species an R5 in NSW. That will make you have to keep natives including elapids for atleast five years before purchasing an exotic.......



I agree. For this reason I would change my vote to yes, if the keeping of exotics was strictly regulated and controlled. 

Perhaps an R5 licence could not be issued to anyone with an escape on their records. I don't think elapids should necessarily be included to qualify for R5, being dangerous, but an R5 licence should require certain strict or similar requirements and limited to certain species.


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## JAS101 (Mar 2, 2012)

dansfish4tea said:


> I could be wrong but i think he ment exotics as pets (like birds, fish and the like), not to mass release them in qld. personally i don't think it would be much different then the aquarium market
> 
> my 2c


the red eared slider turtle started out as an illegal pet , that now has ran ramped and is threatening the native turtles.


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## Kruger88 (Mar 2, 2012)

mad_at_arms said:


> Another *yawn* exotic thread?



Yes however I am not specificaly aiming at exotic reptiles, surely there is a few monkeys floating around in private hands that the government doesnt know about. And of course the recent spate of wild lion sightings in Darwin (not to mention the pygmy hippo shot not long ago that was feral)


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## guzzo (Mar 2, 2012)

It is like those movies where people keep aliens....no matter how tight the security there is always a stuff up and they get out and inherit the world!


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## Snowman (Mar 2, 2012)

If I didn't have a license already, I would keep exotics if given the opportunity to obtain them. However with a license in WA, DEC can inspect my place at anytime and makes owning exotics too much of a risk. I almost regret getting a license as I cant even keep a diamond, jungle or RSP in WA.


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## Poggle (Mar 2, 2012)

guzzo said:


> It is like those movies where people keep aliens....no matter how tight the security there is always a stuff up and they get out and inherit the world!



GREMLINS!!!! lol. I am sorry but as much as i appreciate some exotics, i am one of those people who simplys states, i see no benefit of bringing them in! As stated look at the red eared slider. The amount of corns in Aus now is rediculous, let alone people being raided and keeping bloody boas and so on. It is bad when i have found it damn hard to even get the local elapids i want with out people offering me exotics... p.s this is the moment when i should warn you, offer them to me and i will.... note i WILL report. I have no time or patience for this kind of thing. there is my 1 dollars worth!


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## chopperelliott (Mar 2, 2012)

KingSirloin said:


> Should we have had the cane toad? That is why exotics are illegal. Nearly every week on here someone loses a snake.
> 
> My vote is NO, for the sake of our own wildlife and environment, simply because not everyone can be trusted to keep them secure, so we must all miss out.


i totally agree here it is unfair i believe that to get your wildlife licence there should be some sort of test involved instead of signing a piece of paper


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## Manda1032 (Mar 2, 2012)

I have been offered but I have never seen with my own eyes a real exotic


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## killimike (Mar 2, 2012)

chopperelliott said:


> i totally agree here it is unfair i believe that to get your wildlife licence there should be some sort of test involved instead of signing a piece of paper



I think this is a terrible idea.


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## saximus (Mar 2, 2012)

A test to own/breed a snake and yet there is still no test to allow people to breed humans...


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## JrFear (Mar 2, 2012)

been offered every thing u can think of!
spitting cobras 
gaboon vipers 
eye lash vipers
corns
boas
chamelions
anacondas
never taking any i like my aussie reptiles!
and i dont agree with making them legal in australia!
what would happen if one of those vens tagged you! UR DEAD!


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## XKiller (Mar 2, 2012)

Not a test, but a general captive management and husbandry cousre would save there being all the 'whys my snake not eating' lost snake' ect ect threads


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## Justdragons (Mar 2, 2012)

The problem exists already. now its time to manage the problem. strict license rules and people who breed should have to only sell desexed animals as pets to control the spread of animals. exotics are here in large numbers at least the problem will be controlled rather than hidden..



saximus said:


> A test to own/breed a snake and yet there is still no test to allow people to breed humans...



I Cannot agree more. there should be a bloody iq test and a bloody dero test and ability to raise a decent human test. should you fail castration(sp) swifty follows:evil:


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## sesa-sayin (Mar 2, 2012)

if u r clever enough to handle a Coastal Tiapan, and have a licence to keep them,, then why not Cobras also??? no reason at all , except Govt. control of our lives


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## saximus (Mar 2, 2012)

And who will keep the anti-venom for all of these captive Cobras?


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## sesa-sayin (Mar 2, 2012)

justdragons said:


> The problem exists already. now its time to manage the problem. strict license rules and people who breed should have to only sell desexed animals as pets to control the spread of animals. exotics are here in large numbers at least the problem will be controlled rather than hidden..
> It will come one day, Brother . BIG TIME...............far too many "people " living off the magnifecent/mighty men and women of the Private Enterprise System..We pay the taxes to keep those "people " alive, but have no say whatsoever in which oh those "people " should be born to live OFF us
> I Cannot agree more. there should be a bloody iq test and a bloody dero test and ability to raise a decent human test. should you fail castration(sp) swifty follows:evil:


 OH!


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## Rattus (Mar 2, 2012)

saximus said:


> A test to own/breed a snake and yet there is still no test to allow people to breed humans...



So true... Some people just shouldnt breed...


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## dragonlover1 (Mar 2, 2012)

Kruger88 said:


> Yes however I am not specificaly aiming at exotic reptiles, surely there is a few monkeys floating around in private hands that the government doesnt know about. And of course the recent spate of wild lion sightings in Darwin (not to mention the pygmy hippo shot not long ago that was feral)


there definitely are monkeys about,I remember seeing 1 in a rolls royce on the M5 couple of years ago,if my wife hadn't seen it as well you'd say I was drunk.don't know what type it was only small climbing from front to back seat


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## Poggle (Mar 2, 2012)

sesa-sayin said:


> if u r clever enough to handle a Coastal Tiapan, and have a licence to keep them,, then why not Cobras also??? no reason at all , except Govt. control of our lives



I can handle a dog so why not a fox ? i can handle frogs so why not toads? i can handle a guinea pig so why not rabbits in qld? i can handle a guppy so why not talapia? if you dont like what is on offer go over seas and play with them for a bit.


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## Manda1032 (Mar 2, 2012)

you sit a test for your drivers license. testing you for the basic knowledge. I believe we should have one for reptiles too... all pets really! less impulse buying then


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## killimike (Mar 2, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> you sit a test for your drivers license. testing you for the basic knowledge. I believe we should have one for reptiles too... all pets really! less impulse buying then



I don't think it should happen. Reptiles are licenced for a particular reason that has nothing to do with the kind of care they require. And you want to give the bureaucracy another thing to charge you for, and demand you do?

Like in the thread about collection from the wild, people seem to have a kind of exceptionalist stance to reptiles. There's little licencing to keep other animals. Or kids! Start with something more important.


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## Manda1032 (Mar 2, 2012)

they already charge me for the paper why not make sure I know what the heck I'm doing too?


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## vampstorso (Mar 2, 2012)

I bet if they made up a test...all their answers would be wrong...or it'd be about exotics they think are native hahaha


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## killimike (Mar 2, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> they already charge me for the paper why not make sure I know what the heck I'm doing too?



In that very narrow scope of consideration, that makes sense. But they would just charge more for the test, making the point moot.


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## MathewB (Mar 2, 2012)

sesa-sayin said:


> if u r clever enough to handle a Coastal Tiapan, and have a licence to keep them,, then why not Cobras also??? no reason at all , except Govt. control of our lives



I don't think you can compare a Taipan with Cobra, completely different kettle of fish I think. And one legitimate reason is because it's the law. _Deal with it._


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## killimike (Mar 2, 2012)

MathewB said:


> I don't think you can compare a Taipan with Cobra, completely different kettle of fish I think. And one legitimate reason is because it's the law. _Deal with it._



Look, the fact that the issue is revisited again and again when nothing has changed, that warrants a 'deal with it' response. 

But I think we should have a healthy understanding of why it's law. Law does not come down from heaven. Ok, except for that once  We should defend the rationale behind good laws, and work to change bad ones.


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## mcloughlin2 (Mar 2, 2012)

If they were to introduce a test you would be hit with more money - more resources are required for the test to be designed and implemented. I don't see the need for it too be that expensive for someone who wants to keep a reptile when in reality they are not hard to care for, what it boils down to is that the owner gets bored of them and then they neglect the reptile. 

Maybe a "cooling off" period would be an idea where the application is received but not processed for a certain time frame to get rid of those impulse buying.

As for legalising exotics it is not going to happen in the next few years, and nor will it from online debates! The simple answer to everyone who wishes to keep exotics is to just buy the bloody things! :shock:


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## disintegratus (Mar 2, 2012)

sesa-sayin said:


> The problem exists already. now its time to manage the problem. strict license rules and people who breed should have to only sell desexed animals as pets to control the spread of animals. exotics are here in large numbers at least the problem will be controlled rather than hidden..
> It will come one day, Brother . BIG TIME...............far too many "people " living off the magnifecent/mighty men and women of the Private Enterprise System..We pay the taxes to keep those "people " alive, but have no say whatsoever in which oh those "people " should be born to live OFF us
> I Cannot agree more. there should be a bloody iq test and a bloody dero test and ability to raise a decent human test. should you fail castration(sp) swifty follows:evil:





justdragons said:


> The problem exists already. now its time to manage the problem. strict license rules and people who breed should have to only sell desexed animals as pets to control the spread of animals. exotics are here in large numbers at least the problem will be controlled rather than hidden..
> 
> 
> 
> I Cannot agree more. there should be a bloody iq test and a bloody dero test and ability to raise a decent human test. should you fail castration(sp) swifty follows:evil:



Seriously, the vast majority off people who are living in this situation are quite comfortably sucking on the teat of the government, and have no qualms raising their children to do the same. To be honest, they remind me of a colony of woodies. The just scrabble around, sucking as much as they can from the government, and breeding like crazy. The worst part is the sense of entitlement, the belief that they deserve everything they have been given. And most of the time it works, the "worse" off they are (read: the more **** they've gotten themselves into), the more the government hands out. 
Crack addict? Have some money. 
Got TB? Have some more. 
Never heard of contraception and now you've got 8 kids and no husband? Hell, have a brand new house in Brighton. 

I'm not kidding, these people are living in places I could never even dream of affording.

Sorry for the off topic rant, I have to deal with these lowlife mongrels every day at work and it p***es me right off. And some of them have had the gall to call ME a loser because I'm working in the middle of the night on a saturday.

I should say something on topic. Umm... exotics? Like it or not, they're here anyway. However, if they're made legal the problem will probably just get worse, because more people will be in a position to own them, which means that more people will be in a position to lose/dump/release them when they become too much of a bother.


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## kr0nick (Mar 3, 2012)

disintegratus said:


> Seriously, the vast majority off people who are living in this situation are quite comfortably sucking on the teat of the government, and have no qualms raising their children to do the same. To be honest, they remind me of a colony of woodies. The just scrabble around, sucking as much as they can from the government, and breeding like crazy. The worst part is the sense of entitlement, the belief that they deserve everything they have been given. And most of the time it works, the "worse" off they are (read: the more **** they've gotten themselves into), the more the government hands out.
> Crack addict? Have some money.
> Got TB? Have some more.
> Never heard of contraception and now you've got 8 kids and no husband? Hell, have a brand new house in Brighton.
> ...


I completely agree mate. Where I live near everyone is on the doll and never even had the thought of getting A ****ing job. Hell I have been working since I was 15 and my parents owned their own business and had money but I wanted to do it myself. It ****ing annoys me when you tell them get A job and you get the why I get $$ for nothing response. Anyway mate I had A chuckle to your rant.


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## Bel03 (Mar 3, 2012)

dragonlover1 said:


> there definitely are monkeys about,I remember seeing 1 in a rolls royce on the M5 couple of years ago,if my wife hadn't seen it as well you'd say I was drunk.don't know what type it was only small climbing from front to back seat




I want a monkey!!


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## citrus (Mar 3, 2012)

Why should we put them on a license they are already here in huge numbers if you want them you can get them and if you don't then don't simple as for reporting people with Healthy exotics that are being well looked after..... I don't but that's just me


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## Chanzey (Mar 3, 2012)

Why does everybody want to take backward steps in preserving Australia's flora and fauna?


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## MR_MRS_Monroe (Mar 3, 2012)

dansfish4tea said:


> I could be wrong but i think he ment exotics as pets (like birds, fish and the like), not to mass release them in qld. personally i don't think it would be much different then the aquarium market
> 
> my 2c



There ever where Snakes lizards birds aquarium fish frogs turtles .. There been here for years and we have to deal with it . I used to buy and sell a lot of exotic aquarium fish these a BIG market for them same with others I went to a guys house a few mths back that had 2 red tail bowas just to name a few so ... There here to stay all we can do is deal with it and don't buy them ...


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## SteveNT (Mar 3, 2012)

Bel711 said:


> I want a monkey!!



Sorry Bel. My mrs reckons I'm already taken!


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## D3pro (Mar 3, 2012)

I think having them on a licence system defeats the purpose of the so called "wildlife" licence system we have now... which is useless. 
If exotics are to be legal, they should use a similar system (a template) like the fish importing and exporting industry.


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## davobmx (Mar 3, 2012)

I know of a guy that was keeping a (I believe to be a small Boa) at his step fathers house until his step dad was telling his friend about having a snake with know knowledge of it being highly illegal, after being informed he very promptly kick the snake and step son out.
Cheeky bastard.


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## daniel101 (Mar 3, 2012)

There are Exotics everywhere but as ive learnt you need to know the right people, i used to own a boa
I dont see the harm in people owning exotics, there already here so whether charlie bob or jack has them who cares, but that is my personal opinion, I like Exotic animals i would love to have a ball python or alligator snapping turtle or simply own an Albino python, had a look at one today near 3m Albino Olive they wanted $9000 for it,
I dont think anything is going to stop people having Exotics there already illegal theres not much else they can do, Tasers are illegal to but people still sell them, its impossible


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## citrus (Mar 3, 2012)

D3pro said:


> I think having them on a licence system defeats the purpose of the so called "wildlife" licence system we have now... which is useless.
> If exotics are to be legal, they should use a similar system (a template) like the fish importing and exporting industry.



I think the licensing system was proven to just be about the money when they let the exotic gtp on there. What's the difference between a gtp from png or a ball python from Africa ? Or for that case a jag from USA!


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## dihsmaj (Mar 3, 2012)

citrus said:


> I think the licensing system was proven to just be about the money when they let the exotic gtp on there. What's the difference between a gtp from png or a ball python from Africa ? Or for that case a jag from USA!


GTPs naturally occur in QLD, too. There's only a bit of genetic difference between PNG and Aus GTPs, they're both GTPs. 
Ball Pythons aren't even close to Aussie pythons


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## citrus (Mar 3, 2012)

dihsmaj said:


> GTPs naturally occur in QLD, too. There's only a bit of genetic difference between PNG and Aus GTPs, they're both GTPs.
> Ball Pythons aren't even close to Aussie pythons



I think your missing the point if these exotic gtp got into the iron bark range it would be just as damaging IMO I don't think a ball python or corn snake getting lose in qld is anymore damaging then an inland carpet getting lose if anything the inland is at a higher risk because of cross breeding with the coastals.


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## jenno (Mar 3, 2012)

the government needs to do the same as they did with the guns...make an amnesty to hand them in or make application to keep under the proviso they are desexed (i presume they could be desexed) after the amnesty any one caught with one should face 10 to 15 years in prison and never be able to hold a wildlife licence for life, any one caught selling one should face 20 to 25 years and never to hold a wildlife licence for life, this would be a big deterant for someone thinking of buying one i know i would never do it, and people who give information to the authorities that ends in a conviction should be given a lifetime licence or some other reward, if it worked over a period of time they would disappear from our shores, by the way i do like the exotic snakes but wish they wernt in oz, we have such beautiful snakes n reptiles here and they should be protected to the max, ive read on so many other sites from overseas that most keepers would love to have our pythons in there collection and the ones they can get esp in the states realy look ordinary to the beautiful pythons that we have access to..... sorry to rant on but i just love my country and its diversity and would love to erradicate all exotic animals from our landscape... cheers Jenno


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## Southern_Forest_Drag (Mar 3, 2012)

Been offered/Seen them, hell when i was 16 we had a Snapping turtle at work later the shop got closed down lol. Most interesting i think ive seen was probably a trio of vipers, although thats subjective i guess.


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## disintegratus (Mar 4, 2012)

jenno said:


> the government needs to do the same as they did with the guns...make an amnesty to hand them in or make application to keep under the proviso they are desexed (i presume they could be desexed) after the amnesty any one caught with one should face 10 to 15 years in prison and never be able to hold a wildlife licence for life, any one caught selling one should face 20 to 25 years and never to hold a wildlife licence for life, this would be a big deterant for someone thinking of buying one i know i would never do it, and people who give information to the authorities that ends in a conviction should be given a lifetime licence or some other reward, if it worked over a period of time they would disappear from our shores, by the way i do like the exotic snakes but wish they wernt in oz, we have such beautiful snakes n reptiles here and they should be protected to the max, ive read on so many other sites from overseas that most keepers would love to have our pythons in there collection and the ones they can get esp in the states realy look ordinary to the beautiful pythons that we have access to..... sorry to rant on but i just love my country and its diversity and would love to erradicate all exotic animals from our landscape... cheers Jenno



Unfortunately that's just not going to happen. We live in a country where you could probably beat a dog to death with a crowbar in the middle of a shopping centre and the most you'd get would most likely be a fine. The laws in regards to animals in general in this country are disgustingly lax, especially when it comes to protecting them, whether they're companion animals or native wildlife. Also, you have to remember that even if a desexed animal got out, it could still cause huge amounts of havoc with our ecosystem, if only for the rest of its lifespan. 
I agree with you though Jenno, sure there are some really beautiful animals overseas, but I think the sheer diversity of our wildlife just takes the cake, Aussie animals are just awesome


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## vampstorso (Mar 4, 2012)

I find the suggestion of preventing people with illegal animals getting a license as a punishment hilarious...because....like they care if they don't have a license hahaha...ahhh funny


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## Belv6 (Mar 4, 2012)

i don't own exotics but the way i see it in reality 85% of the people hear would love to own an exotic reptile if they were legal to obtain in oz, and if one is offered and its already in Australia, probs being looked after in the wrong conditions and if u like it and always wanted say a chameleon why not buy it and give it a good life in the wright conditions because its not like the person that originally got it into aus are going to send it back to south America or Asia if they cant sell it, its just gona sit around in poor/wrong conditions till someones interested and that could be a while


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## disintegratus (Mar 4, 2012)

Belv6 said:


> i don't own exotics but the way i see it in reality 85% of the people hear would love to own an exotic reptile if they were legal to obtain in oz, and if one is offered and its already in Australia, probs being looked after in the wrong conditions and if u like it and always wanted say a chameleon why not buy it and give it a good life in the wright conditions because its not like the person that originally got it into aus are going to send it back to south America or Asia if they cant sell it, its just gona sit around in poor/wrong conditions till someones interested and that could be a while



Because that only encourages the original importer to go and bring in more, because there's a market. That's basically the same justification people use to buy puppies from pet shops all the time. As unfortunate as it is, some animals will have to suffer in order to change the situation, because the only way they will stop is if there is no market for it.


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## Bel03 (Mar 4, 2012)

SteveNT said:


> Sorry Bel. My mrs reckons I'm already taken!



:lol: No worries, let her know im not a fighter. I will keep waiting for the one i found on gumtree, i have paid for it, so im sure its on its way!


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## metalboy (Mar 9, 2012)

Man, the things id do to own an anaconda or a retic


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## benjamind2010 (Mar 9, 2012)

jenno said:


> the government needs to do the same as they did with the guns...make an amnesty to hand them in or make application to keep under the proviso they are desexed (i presume they could be desexed) after the amnesty any one caught with one should face 10 to 15 years in prison and never be able to hold a wildlife licence for life, any one caught selling one should face 20 to 25 years and never to hold a wildlife licence for life, this would be a big deterant for someone thinking of buying one i know i would never do it, and people who give information to the authorities that ends in a conviction should be given a lifetime licence or some other reward, if it worked over a period of time they would disappear from our shores, by the way i do like the exotic snakes but wish they wernt in oz, we have such beautiful snakes n reptiles here and they should be protected to the max, ive read on so many other sites from overseas that most keepers would love to have our pythons in there collection and the ones they can get esp in the states realy look ordinary to the beautiful pythons that we have access to..... sorry to rant on but i just love my country and its diversity and would love to erradicate all exotic animals from our landscape... cheers Jenno



Sorry, but that is just too Orwellian. 10-15 year just for possession? Ridiculous. But let's not get too carried away. In the USA a woman can get thrown into prison for possessing a small quantity of heroin. But that same woman can have an abortion for *any* reason and nothing happens. In that case, then nothing should happen if she is caught with heroin either. Both are "moral" crimes. 

In Australia a 50kg woman is only allowed to fist fight a 100kg man, she is not allowed to have a gun, and if she is caught with a firearm she gets locked up. But if she kills her unborn child, nothing happens. It's this sort of paradox that frustrates the living daylights out of me. Perhaps I am OK with abortion, but only if ALL of our basic human rights are respected by the government, not just abortion rights - which appears to be the case as of now.

Just like the one above. Since we can already have dogs and cats, then keeping an exotic I consider a "moral" crime. Since we've already allowed the most destructive fauna into the country already don't you think it's a bit of a farce to put that sort of nonsense on the general population?

Laws like this clearly wont work, so the only logical scenario is to allow them under very strict license conditions. Yes, I would allow corns to be kept, but only on a strict provisional license and any breaches would be dealt with by heavy fines or loss of license and animals.

We need to get rid of this Orwellian crap before it does so much damage to our civilisation that it becomes irreversible - well, I think that's already happened anyway.


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## Jay84 (Mar 9, 2012)

You can not be serious?!? Hahaha. 20-25 years for selling a corn snake?!?!? That's more than what people get for MURDER!! What a joke lol


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## Wrightpython (Mar 9, 2012)

They are all ready here so make a market out of them Licence them whether they are turtles, snakes, lions, monkeys the 5hits already here if you know where to look and the zoos have them and occasionly there animals escape. Let what ever into the country as far as animals are concerned. they are letting in all different types of humanoid like creatures and they are gunna stuff Australia quicker than any corn snake or lion.


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## D3pro (Mar 9, 2012)

Jay84 said:


> You can not be serious?!? Hahaha. 20-25 years for selling a corn snake?!?!? That's more than what people get for MURDER!! What a joke lol



I was going to say lol.... I could murder someone and get less.


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## cwebb (Mar 9, 2012)

Lots of corns in bathurst.. not to mention an illegal boa and corn trade being run out of here..

I wanna dob but theyd know its me from all my lectures as to why exoctics are illegal and "youre never coming to my house in case you leave your dirty exotic bacteria near my snakes" ..

P.s. i dont understand the appeal in ball pythons.. they dont do anything and they are chode looking things with duck heads


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## El_Lagarto (Mar 9, 2012)

Any Leopard Gex out that way? I sold some herps to a guy not long ago that offered to do a swap for an iguana and some Leo hatchlings (I needed the cash to buy other native animals so didn't accept). I used to keep Leopard geckos when I lived in the USA and they are the only exotic I could ever be tempted by. IMO there is no native Aussie lizards that is as well suited to captivity as Leos. They are pretty close to the perfect captive reptile.


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## Heelssss (Mar 9, 2012)

El_Lagarto said:


> Any Leopard Gex out that way? I sold some herps to a guy not long ago that offered to do a swap for an iguana and some Leo hatchlings (I needed the cash to buy other native animals so didn't accept). I used to keep Leopard geckos when I lived in the USA and they are the only exotic I could ever be tempted by. IMO there is no native Aussie lizards that is as well suited to captivity as Leos. They are pretty close to the perfect captive reptile.



yeah i here ya and i love the adult size of them. And when they riggle there tail so cute. Ive never owned one but have family that have kept them overseas and was fortunatee enough to handle them and i have to admit i was shocked with how docile they are.


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## El_Lagarto (Mar 9, 2012)

Yep as I said there is no equivalent Aussie reptile. We have the best snakes, dragons and skinks but nothing compares to the colours, temperament, size and ease of keeping of Leos. 



fangs01 said:


> yeah i here ya and i love the adult size of them. And when they riggle there tail so cute. Ive never owned one but have family that have kept them overseas and was fortunatee enough to handle them and i have to admit i was shocked with how docile they are.


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## benjamind2010 (Mar 10, 2012)

cwebb said:


> P.s. i dont understand the appeal in ball pythons.. they dont do anything and they are chode looking things with duck heads



I'd agree with that, my womas look MUCH nicer than any ball I've ever seen including the hi-orange ones. I've seen ball pythons in the flesh including hi-orange albino ones, and I'll say they don't really excite me that much, certainly not as much as corns, and of course no where near as much as nice RHD womas!


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## cwebb (Mar 10, 2012)

Corns are disgusting sick looking snakes.
Only exotic id want is a milksnake or hognose. so cute


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## Grogshla (Mar 11, 2012)

the only exotic stuff I like is chameleons, iguana etc but I would never be tempted to keep one here. 
I think our snakes are the best in the world.


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 13, 2012)

I saw leopard geckos in germany and a dwarf caiman they would be my 2 picks for the best captives the dwarf caiman was fully grown at just over 3.5 feet.


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## B-Bear (Mar 13, 2012)

Just to put another spin on things. Assault rifles, auto-machine pistols etc., or pot heroin and speed, are illegal but many nefarious types out there have them however Ma and Pa cant have them due to laws. Point being if you really want something and go hunting for it you will find it. So the question is really to regulate, and maybe have half a chance of knowing what the problem is and therefore be able to take appropriate measures to control it, or have the government make it illegal and pat themselves on the back every year they don't find them using this as positive evidence that they are doing their job and have control of things. Nice idea however doesn't really work in reality.
I agree there are far too many f*(&wits out there so control is needed so as far as other ideas presented in this thread for a licensing system also add that the animal should be handed in upon its death as to ensure animals are accounted for and obvious fine/punishments put in place if not followed. Also if practical, and on cost of the owner, supply genetic information to a database as to ensure it is the same animal handed in as licensed.
We have the technology and brains (I say this wearily) to be able to put in place a system where people can keep exotics and probably have more knowledge and control of what is actually out there but in the end it makes governments more to make things illegal so there is little chance of any of the above (guns, drugs or exotics) being made legal in the near future.


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## Little_monkeys (Mar 25, 2012)

Snowman said:


> If I didn't have a license already, I would keep exotics if given the opportunity to obtain them. However with a license in WA, DEC can inspect my place at anytime and makes owning exotics too much of a risk. I almost regret getting a license as I cant even keep a diamond, jungle or RSP in WA.


 
I know tell me about it, me and the Misses really want diamonds. Wish we started the reptile collection when in QLD.
Not much of a veriaty here in WA,


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## Pauls_Pythons (Mar 30, 2012)

In my opinion..................
The licencing regulations in this country are ludicrous. It's sole purpose is another government method of revenue raising. I do say this slightly tongue in cheek because IF MANAGED correctly the system is workable and controllable. Most of the DEC employees have no idea whatsoever about reptile care, never mind anything to do with OPMV or DPS and the likes. They are unable to offer advice or guidance and do nothing to check on the conditions of captive animals.
I have lived in Oz for 11 years but have been keeping and breeding snakes that you refer to as exotics for almost 20 years prior to coming here yet I have never kept any venomous reptiles and do not really have the desire to. In my 30 years as a reptile hobbyist I have kept Burm's, Boa's, Red Tails, Kings, and even Anacondas and Retic's and NEVER.......NOT ONCE did I have any escape!! Is this down to luck or good management?
So why should someone who is prepared to break the law be able to keep the types of reptile I adore while I can not? Is this fair? A good system where the animals must be registered and micro chipped.(surely technology now will give us the ability to fit the chip with a GPS tracker??). Checks done by the DEC, (who could actually do some real work for their pay for once) checks that are beneficial to the people who pay their wages....US and the animals they allegedly protect!!
I recently purchased a beautiful Diamond from a keeper in Victoria. When I went to pick up the reptile I bought everything he was selling, not because they were so good but to give them some decent care as they were kept in the most horrific conditions I have ever seen. (Sold on this site). If DEC was doing their job could this situation have been controlled? Of course it could, some basic lessons learned in a training program for new keepers and a once a year spot check from someone with experience would keep keepers like this out of our hobby or at least give them the skills to participate properly without harming the animals. Anyone who really loves looking after reptiles I believe would gladly undertake a training course that would satisfy the animals basic requirements.
The US is all ready to ban the importation of Burms and Rock pythons because of the alleged issues in the Everglades yet there are reputable herpetologists say there is no problem as these animals can not survive the conditions in this area outside of summer. There are many exotic reptiles that could be kept in this country with zero impact on the natural fauna as they would not survive the conditions. Many US snake keepers are afraid that this is the start of the end for the hobby, the nanny state taking over.......Is that not what we are living in? 
Many Australians break the law every year and take to killing the native fauna just because it happens to wander into an area that makes the citizen feel uncomfortable with little if any repercussions from DEC even though these animals are protected. We are destroying the natural habitats of our own fauna so quickly that within the next generation it is possible that no one will be able to take any fauna from the wild. What will happen to the genetics of our beloved snakes with the gene pool so weakened from inter breeding. And all this in a country that loves to murder animals as a hobby!!!!
Just to finish off my rant.................venomous reptiles in the US are strictly controlled and it can take a keeper 5 years to complete the relevant training yet here it is possible to keep some of the most venomous reptiles in the world just by obtaining a licence and paying the fee, sound like a logical control to you? Maybe the yanks should just put similar controls in place for these big pythons that they have in place for venomous?


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## Origamislice (Mar 30, 2012)

i honestly don't think that many exotic snakes pose much of a threat to native species anyway. in fact i could see many exotics becoming a nice little snack for some of our natives.

from what i've seen exotic species only really seem to become a problem if there is some area in the ecosystem where they could take advantage of however in terms of corn snakes, ball pythons and other similar snakes i couldn't really see anyway they could really pose a problem for native species.

maybe test could be done where someone tags a small amount of exotics and release them into the wild in different areas (not close enough to each other so that they can breedith each other) and see how well they survive..? however i could definatly see that posing problems.

i could also see many exotics having difficulty surviving due to their weird and "wonderfull" colour and pattern mutations. I could see some of the larger pythons posing a risk though...

anyway i think quite a few exotics look pretty stuiped especially ball pythons. the only exotics i think i kinda cool are the hognose and retic.


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## benjamind2010 (Mar 31, 2012)

orangesnake101 said:


> however in terms of corn snakes, ball pythons and other similar snakes i couldn't really see anyway they could really pose a problem for native species.



Ball pythons, I don't see how they could become a real problem, but corn snakes are likely a different matter. Ball pythons are a tropical species, so likely won't cause major issues, but I'm still playing a guessing game here.

Corn snakes are a temperate species. Here they could survive just about anywhere on the east coast. If enough of them are released, which is possible if they are traded as pets, they could cause problems if they got out of control.


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## Stevo2 (Apr 4, 2012)

Let's sort out the appalling spelling and grammar in this country before we start worrying about the 'big' issues of keeping exotics......


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## mrdose (Apr 5, 2012)

I could see a population of wild Burmese Pythons becoming an issue to our natives hahaha I love exotics, people say ours a more attractive blah blah awesome, everyone has an opinion but I couldnt disagree more. But I think the laws in place are great and here for a reason. Just look at the problems Florida are having with Burms. If we could legally have exotics I'd be the first in line. How many licenced owners here release their snakes? No one I know off. If I paid $2000 for an albino Burm im not gunna let it go when it gets to big and create problems in our ecosystem. In my opinion, Americas problem is they arent licenced and in control like our snakes. You can just walk into a shop, buy a snake, get bored and let it go. Basically what Im saying is, I can see an exotic reptile licence working the same as our current licences without any danger to Australia. Just my 2 cents


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## Sinners121 (Apr 5, 2012)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> In my opinion..................
> The licencing regulations in this country are ludicrous. It's sole purpose is another government method of revenue raising. I do say this slightly tongue in cheek because IF MANAGED correctly the system is workable and controllable. Most of the DEC employees have no idea whatsoever about reptile care, never mind anything to do with OPMV or DPS and the likes. They are unable to offer advice or guidance and do nothing to check on the conditions of captive animals.
> I have lived in Oz for 11 years but have been keeping and breeding snakes that you refer to as exotics for almost 20 years prior to coming here yet I have never kept any venomous reptiles and do not really have the desire to. In my 30 years as a reptile hobbyist I have kept Burm's, Boa's, Red Tails, Kings, and even Anacondas and Retic's and NEVER.......NOT ONCE did I have any escape!! Is this down to luck or good management?
> So why should someone who is prepared to break the law be able to keep the types of reptile I adore while I can not? Is this fair? A good system where the animals must be registered and micro chipped.(surely technology now will give us the ability to fit the chip with a GPS tracker??). Checks done by the DEC, (who could actually do some real work for their pay for once) checks that are beneficial to the people who pay their wages....US and the animals they allegedly protect!!
> ...




they have proved that they do last the summer and found there eggs and hatchlings


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## Kareeves (Apr 5, 2012)

we can own macaw's, african gray parrrot, axolotl's and ostrich and i am shaw there alot more i have not iclueded. I would like to see land tortoise added to the ezy list as i love them and i can not see them having a big threat to the Australian eviroment.


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## Jeffa (Apr 5, 2012)

Kareeves said:


> we can own macaw's, african gray parrrot, axolotl's and ostrich and i am shaw there alot more i have not iclueded. I would like to see land tortoise added to the ezy list as i love them and i can not see them having a big threat to the Australian eviroment.



Are you Shaw?


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## crail4 (Apr 7, 2012)

One thing I would like to see is Salamander and Newts legalized because we have axolotls here and I have a Morphed Axolotl, I know for a face that there are tiger salamanders being sold as morphs also, but I don't see what harm they could do considering they don't live in a climate quite like Australias


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## Marzzy (Apr 7, 2012)

At least 10,000 corns in Australia.

Don't ask me where I heard it cause I don't remember.


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## bencrowe (Apr 11, 2012)

ive been offered normal and albino burmese, king and milk snakes amazing how they get past the border


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## Leasdraco (Apr 11, 2012)

Scary to think of Burmese loose in this country when they are already out-competing all the top predators in south-east America.


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## Skinnerguy (Apr 11, 2012)

I read a couple of pages back something about a cool off period... It's called the government. And I've handled a fair few exotics... Corns are nice, but I still prefer Ball Pythons. And Burms are really lovely snakes, great temperment for such big suckers, nothing like scrubbies. I'm definitely not disregarding our natives, I love mine to death, but if I could I would, and it is really just the close mindedness and predisposed hate towards snakes that leaves little consideration for what us keepers want. But the only thing the government has ever put that much effort into is identifying tax evaders... It doesn't benefit them in any real way, so they won't bother with it. But as much as I love them, I'd like to see the states develop a cohesive unified system, rather than all this state law BS.
Cheers Skinner


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## Red_LaCN (Apr 12, 2012)

Some mentioned if they could own a dog,why not a fox! Ive had a fox  sadly i had to give him to a friend as i was in fear that someone who knew i had him would dob me in and they would take him away.

You all say you were offered this or that? I would like to offer you all a cuppa and biscuits if i could just make up my mind on which snake to buy haha  Just trying to throw a little humour out there lol


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## dihsmaj (Apr 12, 2012)

Kareeves said:


> we can own macaw's, african gray parrrot, axolotl's and ostrich and i am shaw there alot more i have not iclueded. I would like to see land tortoise added to the ezy list as i love them and i can not see them having a big threat to the Australian eviroment.


we can't own ostriches...


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## Frozenmouse (Apr 12, 2012)

dihsmaj said:


> we can't own ostriches...


there were a heap of ostrich farms in victoria until the value fell out of the market.


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## Kam333 (Apr 12, 2012)

*Logic*

Hi all, 

I rarely feel the urge to respond to threads but occasionally there is a moment when a little fresh perspective is worthwhile. Firstly yes there are all sorts of exotics available in Australia. . Ferrets, Palm squirrels, People, dogs, cats, cows etc etc but the truth above and beyond is economics. I stopped keeping reptiles over 20 years ago due to the hypocrisy of the governing bodies and the conflicting arguments they used to justify there actions, ie not allowed to catch wild life (as they are protected) but you can run them over and destroy there habitat to build yet another shopping center or housing estate (because you A. paid the required permits or be was friends with the right person (like woolworths in Maleny) or a number of other questionable aspects with $$ signs ). The examples could go on indefinitely but the end result is you the average guy or gal that does not have a fist full of dollars and mix in the right circles have little to no impact on decision making. The current discussion of softening drug laws is a great example of not listening to reason and just saying NO! (yes Jullia said no.) Is the publics safety a concern or is there more to it, look at how pot was made illegal and you then realise that it's economics ie the cotton and timber industry would be effected as hemp is a greater and more diverse product (both timber and cotton industries are destructive to the environment but billion dollar businesses). There are so many factors at work on the higher levels that no rational argument from the public is able to over come. The fact is people will allways be divided in opinion and that is the benefit of being born with the ability to think and reason on an individual level but the problem is people are easily manipulated and those that are will fervently defend that belief. I lived behind Aust zoo last year and definitely found a couple of interesting things (for another discussion) but what I found had little to no impact on the immediate environment as much as the Cattle over the road or the Local golf course or the Pineapple farms sucking the life out of Coochin creek or the deforestation for that new housing estate. The examples are many but it comes down to one point economics. So until people are able to think past what is preached to them buy the very bodies that have vested interests in keeping things the way things are (media, council etc) nothing will change. As for myself in the last few years I kept and breed a select amount of Herps again - mostly morphs and my caging requirements exceed the average size and all are kept in environments that replicate nature. I am not going to argue either for or against exotics but i think the bigger picture needs to be addressed before we could rationally argue any point.

Kam


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## albino_addiction (Apr 12, 2012)

i believe if you can prove your a trusted license holder you should be aloud to keep some exotic snakes.. so many amazing exotic pythons and snakes out there i would love to own and have apart of my collection 



Mr.James said:


> Make certain species an R5 in NSW. That will make you have to keep natives including elapids for atleast five years before purchasing an exotic.
> 
> I do not have any interest in exotics. Just putting it out there for those who do.


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## Frozenmouse (Apr 12, 2012)

The government should just have a separate license for exotic reptiles and that way they can make some money from it , then call an amnesty .
Big fat cat politicians have money in pocket so they are happy 
We get to keep burmese pythons we are happy = win win


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## Jeannine (Apr 12, 2012)

*yay lets have exotics in Australia i totally agree 

after all Cane Toads were such a resounding success story and should be held up as an example for allowing non local creatures into this wonderful country

nothing like having a few burmese pythons loose in Kakado just like they are loose in the everglades **thumbs up**
*


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## bk201 (Apr 12, 2012)

L0L and we still cannot even own a cane toad so that tell's you how much of a chance you have.


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## Batanga (Apr 12, 2012)

I think a lot of people's views here are skewed largely on a few factors being:
-Thinking you are in an exclusive club because you hold a wildlife license
-Thinking the government bodies who control the licensing system actually give a hoot about you, the native wildlife and your collection.

The NPWS/DECC or whatever other entity they go by really couldn't care less about the reptile keeping hobby, it's just another way to milk a few $$ out of people wanting to keep native wildlife which they could probably catch in their own backyards. You have to undergo no checks, no form of testing or any other basic paperwork to receive your license.....Applying for a reptile license online takes less than 5 minutes if you have a credit card.
How can they claim that their top goal is conservation when they don't even check to see if an applying licensee has given the correct information? For all they know/care I could be out there buying up reptiles to skin and make in to belts.

But in relation to exotics I don't think they should ever be allowed to be kept in Australia, Yes there are some amazing exotics, I have had close contact with a few including king cobras while overseas but I think allowing even non-venomous species to be kept by private keepers is only going to make an already redundant system harder to maintain.
On the other side of the coin I think some exhibits/Zoos have been given way too much leeway in what they are keeping and breeding(King Cobras, Green Anas etc). One of these places(I won't name names) burned down a fair few years ago and the local papers ran a story on it, Firefighters claimed there were snakes slithering out of the compound while it was burning....It burned to the ground and they rebuilt mainly on donations of live animals from other zoos and private keepers only to breed them and resell them to the public, just another instance of how greasing the right palms will let you bend the rules as far as you like.


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## zuesowns (Apr 13, 2012)

Here's an idea, if your really that inclined to own an exotic, buy a zoo or better yet, work at one that has them and you get to look after them! legally.


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## jordo (Apr 13, 2012)

The sole most important reason we can't keep exotics in Australia is for conservation. You might justify that we should be able to keep some species that are from different environments to Australia but that's a big steaming load... 
Australia arguably has the highest reptile diversity in the world, although I'm sure if splitters in central/south america went as hard as ours some countries would catch up. This diversity can be largely attributed to the diversity in climate and habitat within Australia which has allowed for greater opportunity for speciation. The broad array of habitats and climatic zones eg: tropical rainforest, desert, tropical savannah etc. have the potential to support exotic reptiles from nearly anywhere should they get a foothold in a suitable environment.
It's simply not worth the risk to our fauna and any amount of discussion or justification from ignorant keepers isn't likely to change that.


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## Snake-Supplies (Apr 13, 2012)

people keep rabbits and cats and mice and rats, all pest's.

Would I like some exotics?
Sure

Would I keep some exotics?
Sure

Do I think it's worth the risk to native fauna?
No

The last one is the one I think of most.


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## Frozenmouse (Apr 13, 2012)

Once humans are let loose in an eco system everything else is superfluous.


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## Channaz (Apr 13, 2012)

Call me strange, but I love Australian reptiles and have no desire to ever keep an exotic species. Although I do find exotics interesting. I'd love to go herping in Africa, South America, Sri Lanka, India and so on.


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## Snake-Supplies (Apr 13, 2012)

Hannaz said:


> Call me strange, but I love Australian reptiles and have no desire to ever keep an exotic species. Although I do find exotics interesting. I'd love to go herping in Africa, South America, Sri Lanka, India and so on.



strange


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## ozziepythons (Apr 13, 2012)

Working with exotics at a zoo is awesome, it eliminates the desire to keep them at home. Australian species are in high demand overseas and have been for years- we are the lucky country for reptiles! We are spoilt for choice, especially since designer morphs are taking off here from home grown projects. If your a whinger and want exotics at home no arguments thats fair enough- there are plenty of countries that allow them as pets you can move to.


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## Channaz (Apr 13, 2012)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> strange



Well, I did say you could, lol.


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## Nes88c (Apr 13, 2012)

Australia is a unique country, we have wonderful animals of all types here. 
Our flora and funa are already threatened by rabbits, foxes, cane toads, introduced plants (I'm not a plant person) we have already lost the bilby, we are losing animals very quickly because of the cane toads. Why would u want these exotic animals to have a chance to be introduced to our unique environment and damage it even more. I love some extotics but I will never own them here, not when I know the damage that the already introduced specieshave done to our land. all you need to do is watch those animal cops shows based in America, they constantly have to rescue ball pythons, anacondas, and boas that have escaped n caused damage to their environment, or even worse, ppl let these animals go bcos they can't handle them! It's ridiculous!!! I watched one episode where the boa ate three large dogs from the community, three large dogs means it could easily eat chn!! Crazy!! 

Florida has changed its laws about importing and breeding extotics, as they have found the extent of the damage done to their environment, it's much like ours. Unique! 


To all the ppl out there who own these exotic animals, please consider the damage these animals can do to our environment, don't breed them and please please discourage anyone from buying them! I don't want australia to become a place where our next generation say "remember what it was like before the cane toads, the boss, the ball pythons" it's not fair! 

As far as the licensing goes..... We are allowed to breed pit bulls as long as we can prove the environment in which they are brought up. Makes sure these animals are not dangerous, without a license. And I know some states have changed this.... Why not change the licensing laws for reptiles!! Makes sense to me, there at many ppl out there who just don't know about reptiles and there husbantory.... Just joining those site opened my eyes to many things I had no idea about! It should at least be made mandatory u join a herpological society before u r allowed to buy a reptile.


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## furrie (Apr 14, 2012)

a friend of mine was raided, charged and fined for owning and breeding albino boa's in victoria. he can no longer hold a wildlife licence and gets visits from police and dse to check that he is not up to his old ways!
as much as i love the look of exotics we can not risk the possibilty of their accidental release, imagine something like the snakehead (fish) in our waterways let alone exotic pythons or exotic elapids. carp, cane toads, rabbits and foxes (im sure there are plenty more i'v missed) have done their fair share of destruction in our country without "accidently" having more unwanted ferals! 
ohh and lets not forget the good old feline!!!


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## crazzzylizard (Apr 16, 2012)

I have a friend that had a corn snake hatchling that ascaped so I think that if we are to have exotics that we should have them de sexed first if thats even possible and they should also be Quaranteened upon entry


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## Snake-Supplies (Apr 16, 2012)

Alright... 
I'm finally going to say this.

I have't told anyone on here before cause I know how bad these things can get out of hand.

A couple of years ago I found some paperwork stating that I could own exotics.
Under these conditions..... blah blah blah.

I rang up the DSE and asked what the chances of me getting the licence is because everyone has told me you "just can't own them" so why don't they know about this certain licence.

The lady couldn't answer my question so she put me through to some other guy who told me,
something along the lines of... (like a I said this was a couple of years ago)

The reason not many people know wbout the licence is because we don't tell anyone about it.

Si I asked him can I have a private exotic licence and he said no.

I asked why and his reply was you just can't, I said I have paperwork here stating that I can.

Anyway this went on for a while, he then gave me another number to ring, he said this is the guy who deals with the licenceing of all the exotics, the big man of the whole thing.

I rang and asked why I cannot have the licence, when I have paperwork saying that I can.
He too just said that I cant.

Unless I am a Zoo, wildlife this wildlife that, circus etc.

Which I told him, that's catorgory 1, I want a private exotic licence catagory 3.

He basically said you can apply but I wouldn't get it unless it's appoved by the minister, I said well I'll do an enclosure and get him to look at it.

He got frustrated and said look, you won't get it and went on about the eco system and dishonest people.
He told me that he would like to keep exotics, but not even he would get it.

I got tired of it so I quit.

If anyone wants the paperwork PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.


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