# extra heating for frogs?



## dkir7979 (Oct 14, 2012)

hi all, just wondering whats your thoughts on placing a normal 100w globe onto my terrarium to heat up my white lipped tree frogs?? i need to boost the temp up from 24 degrees, any do's and dont's?? thanks


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## Womagaunt (Oct 14, 2012)

dont get one untill you have everything you need


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## SarahScales (Oct 14, 2012)

Basking under globes for long periods of time actually dries out the surface of your frogs skin. The only bulb you should be using is a UVB bulb if they have no access to another source of UVB i.e Outdoor enclosure. To heat your frogs cage you should be using heat mats or cord.


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## eipper (Oct 14, 2012)

Sarah,

This is wrong a number species actively bask and a light on a thermostat and timer is the best way for this. This basking activity is important as if the frog is unable to bask it may not reach its PBT. Without reaching its PBT it cannot process UVB effectively.

To the OP,

The enclosure should have a thermal gradient or mosaic of between 24 and 28 degs C. A small basking light providing localised heat that is protected by mesh can give a hot spot, that is ideally situated near a Full Spectrum Lighting system. If you heat the water with an aquarium heater you will raise both the temperature and relative humidity of the enclosure. 

Cheers,
Scott


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## dkir7979 (Oct 14, 2012)

thanks scot, I think i will put the basking globe on them now, I do however already have an 100w ceramic heat globe and a uvb 5.0 light, however the ceramic lamp never really boosts up the temperature enough, i dont know why, should i resort to a larger 15owatt globe or not? or do i just put the basking globe onto them? thanks

- - - Updated - - -

i also did use to have a water heater and filter. i found out that whitelips like still water bodies and the water heater just made the water a lot dirtier and i had to use a larger bowl which was quite annoying as i had to build up the substrate around the bowl so it was level with the ground


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## SarahScales (Oct 14, 2012)

eipper said:


> Sarah,
> 
> This is wrong a number species actively bask and a light on a thermostat and timer is the best way for this. This basking activity is important as if the frog is unable to bask it may not reach its PBT. Without reaching its PBT it cannot process UVB effectively.
> 
> ...



It is true that it would be incorrect advise for some species, but not a White Lipped Tree Frog as the OP specified. White Lipped Tree frogs are prone to sleeping under 'basking' lamps and causing severe damage to their skin. They should be provided with a full spectrum UVB globe and if external heating is required, it should be provided with from mats or cords. 

White Lipped Tree frogs in their natural environment will sleep high in the canopy of a tree receiving scattered lighting at most due to leaf blockage. They do not sit out in the sun and actively bask. The OP should not be using a heat lamp, especially one at such a high wattage as the temperature gradient should be provided broadly and not in a centralized location.

Also, using heat lamps with the addition of mesh is extremely dangerous for tree frogs. Many tree frog species sustain serious burns from climbing across burning hot mesh heated by this inappropriately used basking spots. If you are absolutely adamant about using a lamp to provide heat, you should be using a low watt nocturnal lamp as they give a softer less intense heat source.


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## dkir7979 (Oct 14, 2012)

thanks everyone, summers coming up so that will help a lot...


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## eipper (Oct 14, 2012)

SarahScales said:


> It is true that it would be incorrect advise for some species, but not a White Lipped Tree Frog as the OP specified. White Lipped Tree frogs are prone to sleeping under 'basking' lamps and causing severe damage to their skin. They should be provided with a full spectrum UVB globe and if external heating is required, it should be provided with from mats or cords.
> 
> White Lipped Tree frogs in their natural environment will sleep high in the canopy of a tree receiving scattered lighting at most due to leaf blockage. They do not sit out in the sun and actively bask. The OP should not be using a heat lamp, especially one at such a high wattage as the temperature gradient should be provided broadly and not in a centralized location.
> 
> Also, using heat lamps with the addition of mesh is extremely dangerous for tree frogs. Many tree frog species sustain serious burns from climbing across burning hot mesh heated by this inappropriately used basking spots. If you are absolutely adamant about using a lamp to provide heat, you should be using a low watt nocturnal lamp as they give a softer less intense heat source.



My white lips or mags never sustain burns they thermoregulate away from the heat source when they need to. As for thermal burns due to contact with a light cage....if the light cage is of correct size it should not heat up like that.....why enclose the lamp if the grill is too close and the frog needs to be protected from the grill...use the correct grill system in the first place. 

As for where _infrafrenata_ sleeping habits can you direct me to where this information comes from.

The whole point of a thermal gradient or mosaic is to provide localized heat and as you move further away from it you get a range of temperatures. This allows the frog to _choose_ what it requires rather than you forcing it into where you _think_ it should be. If the cage is of sufficient size a relatively high wattage bulb is fine provided the means for thermoregulation are provided.


Cheers,
Scott


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## SarahScales (Oct 15, 2012)

Well, if that is what you would like to believe that is fine. But I learnt from experience after losing my first frog, a white lipped tree frog, that basking lamps are just far to hazardous. I would prefer to be certain my frog is safe by just using cord than risking burns and skin conditions from lamps.


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## eipper (Oct 15, 2012)

Sarah,

Its not what I believe it's what I have practiced since the early nineties without loss. The critical point of any heat source, is to step up correctly in the first place. You said you have lost a frog from this, how cool was the ambient air temps within the cage, did you have a grill, what distance was the grill from the light, what wattage? I have seen a smouldering heat cord when it stuffed up when it was incorrectly set up.


So do you care to elaborate re the source of your information re infrafrenata sleeping/daytime sites?

cheers
scott


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## SarahScales (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm not criticizing your care. Everyone keeps their animals differently and very successfully. My experience has been that my frogs skin dried out from over-basking causing excessive sloughing and stress. However it was the burns from mesh roof that actually caused the death of my frog. I was devestated.

But it was a few months later when I purchased another frog from a breeder, she explained what I had done wrong. They explained my mistake and how to correct it, she was also the one to inform me about the sleeping habits of white lipped tree frogs which I have been happy to share with you.


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