# OPMV defamation



## PilbaraPythons (Apr 11, 2009)

It has come to my attention that a member here has used APS private messages to claim that Luke Warren ( Iceman ) has supplied a captive bred Stimson hatchling bred in QLD with a confirmed case of OPMV.
While it is very true that this particular reptile did die within one day of purchase Luke has never received or seen the alleged veterinary report for cross examination of the vet who allegedly wrote it.

As the owner of the parents of the progeny in question I find this behavior adherent and this sort of premature defamation unfair.
Why go public here about this?
Simple, because besides one known pm, we do not know how many people other members have also received the same pm and want this matter to not get unfairly out of hand. 
I urge anybody who may have received a pm warning about this unproven claim, ignore this until we get to the bottom of it. 
At this stage Luke has been tried and convicted and defamed without due process even if behind the secrecy of private messages
Nobody should ever support the covering up of genuine cases of this disease but equally we should never automatically believe that one veterinary report is accurate without cross examination.

If this member had any morality he would allow at the very least the supplier the chance to read the alleged veterinary report and consult first hand with the Dr who wrote it.
Luke and myself cannot comment too much more on this matter until this is done but will certainly keep anybody who is interested as to what the real story is.

Luke does not for a minute believe he has or has ever had OPMV and furthermore has no sick reptiles.
Luke however did for a fact accidentally expose some individual to excess heat of which did cause the fatality of a few hatchling Stimsons. It may very well be the case that some of the siblings that survived actually had un noticed internal damage.

Off note: This member who purchased three Stimsons with one dying was fully refunded for the entire three.

Regards 

Dave


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## elapid66 (Apr 11, 2009)

this is why internet forums suck


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## gozz (Apr 11, 2009)

Talk about a whichunt buy some people .Its a shame
that people dont think (spreading rumours )about what repercusions that can
come out ,and ruien a persons reputation shame shame shame
Its like an old womens sewing circle some times
cheers Trent


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## seumas12345 (Apr 11, 2009)

I dont know what they are complaining about if they were fully refunded! I was of the understanding that OPMV can lay dorment for up to a year in siblings without them showing signs of the disease?? Can anyone enlighten me or comment further on this?


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## Noongato (Apr 11, 2009)

Sounds to me like the roumers might be being spread by the competition..

I have bought off Iceman and his animals are in great health and eat great etc etc.
Id be thinking someone is simply jelous of his animals


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## cockney red (Apr 11, 2009)

This looks long and nasty, lets hope facts reign.


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 11, 2009)

This is not about refunds...this is about containing a "suspected" disease
everyone ought to thank Pilbara Pythons for being truthful
JMO
Cheers
Sandee


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## TrueBlue (Apr 11, 2009)

People definitely need to get their facts 100 percent right before starting any such nonsence. Even then Luke would be the first one to come forward and declare that he had a problem, but he has no sick animals as Dave has already stated.
Before any such pms were made it should of first been found out if it is infact true, (which i highly highly dought).
Humans are horrid creatures, id rather spend time with my animals that most people i have met.


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## ssssmithy (Apr 11, 2009)

seumas12345 said:


> I dont know what they are complaining about if they were fully refunded!
> 
> probably because of the possible chance of exposure to their other reptiles. but thats where quarentine comes in.
> 
> ...


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## gozz (Apr 11, 2009)

TrueBlue said:


> People definitely need to get their facts 100 percent right before starting any such nonsence. Even then Luke would be the first one to come forward and declare that he had a problem, but he has no sick animals as Dave has already stated.
> Before any such pms were made it should of first been found out if it is infact true, (which i highly highly dought).
> Humans are horrid creatures, id rather spend time with my animals that most people i have met.


Here Here,


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## arbok (Apr 11, 2009)

i understand what Dave is saying, but you guys will have to act if a vet report comes through


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## scam7278 (Apr 11, 2009)

best comment of the day... Humans are horrid creatures....... LOL


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 11, 2009)

Rob 
In New Zealand you used to hang around animals, up until you got arrested.


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## bigguy (Apr 11, 2009)

Dave

Hadn't heard a word about this, untill now. Now we have all heard ))))


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## funcouple (Apr 11, 2009)

ssssmithy said:


> seumas12345 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know what they are complaining about if they were fully refunded!
> ...


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## BT (Apr 11, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Rob
> In New Zealand you used to hang around animals, up until you got arrested.


 
hahahaha


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## ssssmithy (Apr 11, 2009)

funcouple said:


> ssssmithy said:
> 
> 
> > this is getting off track.
> ...


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 11, 2009)

Bob 
tackling allegations openly, honestly, is far more accountable than letting rumours grow unchallenged don't you think ?


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## TrueBlue (Apr 11, 2009)

dave, my first gilfreinds name was baaaaabaaaaaraaaa. lol.

Luke has already said to me that if it is true he will euthanase his colletion, but as said i highly highly dought it as he is convinced that all his animals are fine. He lost a handfull of hatchie stimmies in a heat wave this season thats all. hell he breed a lot of animals this season if he had it thru his collection the stress of breeding would of brought out symptoms in a number of adult animals i would think, yet all are thriving.????


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## seumas12345 (Apr 11, 2009)

ssssmithy said:


> seumas12345 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know what they are complaining about if they were fully refunded!
> ...


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## levis04 (Apr 11, 2009)

Is it possible he might not have know if he had it?? not saying he does or anything but can it go undetected? does it need something to trigger and outbreak? hope it all pans out well, nobody want to see snakes put to sleep!


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## ssssmithy (Apr 11, 2009)

seumas12345 said:


> ssssmithy said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously didn't go on to read my further point.... They were refunded, and then the idiots have gone and spread rumours.... I went on to say that OPMV can lay dormant without the owner even knowing.... So just like everyone else in this thread, I am saying the buyer should have got their facts right before saying that Luke knew he had sick animals and was selling them off... Please!
> ...


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## ad (Apr 11, 2009)

This is a horrible situation to be put in, facts need to be established before comments are made,
They certainly havent thought about it before making these accusations, 
Good luck with it Luke, 
Cheers
Adam.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 11, 2009)

Everyone can speculate as much as they want however it will achieve nothing.
Dave has come out and layed it on the table,further information (test results) aren't at hand yet.

I'm sure the people directly affected will do the right thing and lock down until everything is sorted.If results come back as "consistent with" then I would hope that the affected people remain in lockdown and take further steps to ensure it doesn't continue on.


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## Noongato (Apr 11, 2009)

Theres a risk of everyone having OPMV in their collection, might never have anything at all to do with a seller. I mean how many people buy second hand enclosures, hide rocks etc etc. 
Everytime theres a unhappy buyer they spew those 4 letter "OPMV" as revenge for their purchase dying.


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## caustichumor (Apr 11, 2009)

It seems to go without question these days, all brown snakes are Taipans, and any dead pythons have OPMV....


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Apr 11, 2009)

midnightserval said:


> Theres a risk of everyone having OPMV in their collection, might never have anything at all to do with a seller. I mean how many people buy second hand enclosures, hide rocks etc etc.
> Everytime theres a unhappy buyer they spew those 4 letter "OPMV" as revenge for their purchase dying.


 here here


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## m.punja (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm confused. The snake was a hatchie and it died two days after purchase, I thought OPMV worked slower then that. I also thought that australian vets didn't have the appropriat equipment to diagnose reptiles with OPMV, so how is there a vet report suggesting the snake in question has OPMV. Also, was there more then one snake of that clutch that died? (after the heat wave that is.) Is this vet willing to step forward and acused iceman of knowingly having OPMV? Interesting story, will be more interesting if more studies are able to be done on the dead specimen if it was kept or at least it's siblings.


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## m.punja (Apr 11, 2009)

caustichumor said:


> It seems to go without question these days, all brown snakes are Taipans, and any dead pythons have OPMV....




Don't forget all gray snakes are keelbacks.


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## gozz (Apr 11, 2009)

These Rumors are heresay and should go no further without
proper proof and the person responsible should come forward
and tell us the proof that they have. Or keep there pie hole shut


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## zobo (Apr 11, 2009)

I agree, there is no definitive test in Oz for the disease as far as I know, even vets are only making educated guesses based on symtoms etc
correct me if I'm wrong
But I would want a detailed report by a reputable vet before anyone should make any judgements.
j


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## Ships (Apr 11, 2009)

I can tell you that if I had a recently purchased animal die and then got a pm done and the vet diagnosed OPMV I would be highly dicstressed!!! and a refund would be the last thing on my mind, what about all the other animals in the shed. Its an insidious disease and there are no simple answers other than extreme caution


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## bk201 (Apr 11, 2009)

quarantine is an answer.


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## MrSpike (Apr 11, 2009)

So when a vet report is made public for the Pilbara Pythons syndicate and the rest of the forum to see(assuming it is), and if it shows that the case is 100% positivly consistent with OPMV ... what action will Luke be taking to rectify the problem? Will he be euthanasing the whole of his collection? Just curious to see how serious he is about the issue at hand and what actions he is willing to take to help protect the hobby.

This is all assuming the vet report shows a 100% confirmation of the disease.


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## funcouple (Apr 11, 2009)

MrSpike said:


> So when a vet report is made public for the Pilbara Pythons syndicate and the rest of the forum to see(assuming it is), and if it shows that the case is 100% positivly consistent with OPMV ... what action will Luke be taking to rectify the problem? Will he be euthanasing the whole of his collection? Just curious to see how serious he is about the issue at hand and what actions he is willing to take to help protect the hobby.
> 
> This is all assuming the vet report shows a 100% confirmation of the disease.


 
i have wondered this. but wouldnt it go further than luke(iceman) collection? if OPMV is proved it must of been introduced into lukes collection by a snake that came from where??

then how far has OPMV spred? wouldnt every snake from this collection be at risk of having OPMV and then passing it on to the new owners collection?

i sincerly hope that this isnt proved as there will be many snakes and collections that will need to be euthanased if it is proved


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## Khagan (Apr 11, 2009)

MrSpike said:


> So when a vet report is made public for the Pilbara Pythons syndicate and the rest of the forum to see(assuming it is), and if it shows that the case is 100% positivly consistent with OPMV ... what action will Luke be taking to rectify the problem? Will he be euthanasing the whole of his collection? Just curious to see how serious he is about the issue at hand and what actions he is willing to take to help protect the hobby.
> 
> This is all assuming the vet report shows a 100% confirmation of the disease.



I thought it wasn't possible to get 100% confirmation in Australia?


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## arbok (Apr 11, 2009)

Khagan said:


> I thought it wasn't possible to get 100% confirmation in Australia?


 
they can send the snakes overseas for tests.... i dont know much about this desiese only that its truely horrible and i feel greatly for anyone who could be affected by it.

im sure that if the person does have the hard facts on paper, then they will come out eventually. but until then why jump the gun and medal in what clearly isnt any of our business?


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## MrSpike (Apr 11, 2009)

Khagan said:


> I thought it wasn't possible to get 100% confirmation in Australia?



As far as I'm aware the whole snake, or samples of organs etc are able to be sent to lab's in the US. Maybe someone else with more details could provide more info.


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## Australis (Apr 11, 2009)

arbok said:


> they can send the snakes overseas for tests....



Name me a single case thats been sent overseas for testing?


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## arbok (Apr 11, 2009)

Australis said:


> Name me a single case thats been sent overseas for testing?


 
im not going to jump into heated discussion about this as i am by no means an expert and have little knowledge on the subject.

so sure you win? clap clap?

ill just go back to reading the thread now


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 11, 2009)

I can tell you for a fact that if it is proven that Luke has OPMV that his entire collection will be euthanased and all cages destroyed.
Even if a vet report says OPMV, that conclusion will be in itself investigated by cross examination of the vet and nothing will be simply taken as face value. Secondly if in the remote case that Luke did have it and it was 100% proven then there will be full disclosure.
I highly doubt that any tissue was sent to the USA for testing ,as apparently the autopsy only cost $140.

Considering there were absolutely no symptoms in the reptile that died, I am suspecting another cause of death e.g. previous exposure to excess temperature.


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## Sdaji (Apr 11, 2009)

Snakes subjected to temperature extremes can certainly show signs which are extremely similar to typical pathogen symptoms. In some cases these snakes can die in the short term, or in some cases they can live many years, in which case the symptoms may remain, or they can partially or entirely vanish. Poisons can have the exact same affect.

I certainly wouldn't take any risks or assume that everything is fine. This sort of thing needs to be taken very seriously, even if there is only a small chance that there is a nasty pathogen at work, but the most likely explanation is that the animal was exposed to a temperature extreme in transit. It seems highly unlikely that a snake would suddenly drop dead after 12 hours due to a previously symptom-free chronic infection, and more likely than that coincidence is the exposure to a temperature extreme.

Naturally we need to stay vigilant, but one snake dying after being transported does not necessarily mean OPMV. The more likely explanation is temperature, and we're not doing ourselves any favours if we condemn a collection as being filled with OPMV every time something like this happens, or we're going to assume deadly viruses are literally everywhere, which means people will become complacent when a real concern pops up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I know this case to be clear, but there's not enough reason to point fingers just yet. It sounds like this necropsy is being done exhaustively, so the results will be interesting. I look forward to the results.


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## Sdaji (Apr 11, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> I can tell you for a fact that if it is proven that Luke has OPMV that his entire collection will be euthanased and all cages destroyed.
> Even if a vet report says OPMV, that conclusion will be in itself investigated by cross examination of the vet and nothing will be simply taken as face value. Secondly if in the remote case that Luke did have it and it was 100% proven then there will be full disclosure.
> I highly doubt that any tissue was sent to the USA for testing ,as apparently the autopsy only cost $140.
> 
> Considering there were absolutely no symptoms in the reptile that died, I am suspecting another cause of death e.g. previous exposure to excess temperature.



Heh, you posted what I thought while I was typing it  If the autopsy was only $140, I agree, nothing would have been sent overseas.


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## pythons73 (Apr 12, 2009)

Well if it was me in Question i would certaintly spend the $140 to prove or disapprove this case,its a hell of alot cheaper than euthanasing the collection from a vets report.As others have suggested it cant be 100% proven in Australia.Lets hope for iceman and others that this is a false alarm.


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## Retic (Apr 12, 2009)

The $140 is just for a standard post mortem which will not determine if OPMV was the cause of death, the overseas tests would be considerably more expensive and are rarely if ever done.


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## BenReyn (Apr 12, 2009)

This is the first of the issue I've heard baout.
Seems like someone's just spreading rumours pointlessly..
Damn shame!
Ben.


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

BenReyn said:


> This is the first of the issue I've heard baout.
> Seems like someone's just spreading rumours pointlessly..
> Damn shame!
> Ben.



I don't think he is 'pointlessly spreading rumours', at least not deliberately. I've heard the rumours from multiple sources, and I gather that the person bought a snake, it died within hours, he was (understandably) terrified that it was a serious disease. He went to the vet for a diagnosis, and as most vets (including most of the highly-regarded ones) are so prone to doing, an overconfident diagnosis was given, further scaring the keeper. He told a friend or two about it, then the rumour spread like mad, as rumours do in reptile circles. Quite likely what we're hearing is not what was said by the source, it's what the rumour mill has produced. No one seems to have heard from the keeper himself, so it's unlikely he actually wanted the rumours to be flying around as they are.

If a vet told someone that his snake had OPMV, you can't blame him for telling someone what happened. If I was naive enough to take a vet seriously and a vet told me I had a snake with OPMV, or if I suspected I had OPMV for any reason, I'd be telling people too. The main problem here (assuming it is not a case of OPMV) was the vet giving out an overconfident, almost baseless diagnosis, something which happens extremely often.

I think the person who bought the snake, went to the vet and got the diagnosis needs to speak up and set the story straight before the rumour mill creates its own version of the story. It might not have been their intention to start the rumours, but now that the rumours are out it's important to everyone, particularly the person who the snake came from, to let us know what is happening.


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## lemonz (Apr 12, 2009)

what is opmv?


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## Retic (Apr 12, 2009)

Google it.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 12, 2009)

MrSpike said:


> So when a vet report is made public for the Pilbara Pythons syndicate and the rest of the forum to see(assuming it is), and if it shows that the case is 100% positivly consistent with OPMV ... what action will Luke be taking to rectify the problem? Will he be euthanasing the whole of his collection? Just curious to see how serious he is about the issue at hand and what actions he is willing to take to help protect the hobby.
> 
> This is all assuming the vet report shows a 100% confirmation of the disease.



It's highly unlikely that a 100% confirmation will ever be made. The cost is cost prohibitive to average person and I think has probably only been conducted for zoos/reptile parks (only one springs to mind).

Having said this, it would probably be a good idea for the person in question to cease selling snakes until this problem is resolved. I see he currently has BHPs, Stimsons and Jungles for sale.

Refunding the money for the snakes initially purchased is a good start and a very professional thing to do. 

What happens if the worst case scenario is the case and OPMV is found to be the cause of death (highly unlikely)? Would the seller of the snake be responsible for the cost of euthanising all of the purchasers animals - or the euthanising of all the collections of people he has sold to?

One thing I do find disturbing about this thread is that it is based on a PM sent to someone privately. Isn't a PM a personal message? Maybe a confidentiality clause should be attached to all PMs stating the information contained therein is for the recipients eyes only and cannot be shared without the consent of the authour.

Good luck to all concerned.


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## tenacres1100 (Apr 12, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> I don't think he is 'pointlessly spreading rumours', at least not deliberately. I've heard the rumours from multiple sources, and I gather that the person bought a snake, it died within hours, he was (understandably) terrified that it was a serious disease. He went to the vet for a diagnosis, and as most vets (including most of the highly-regarded ones) are so prone to doing, an overconfident diagnosis was given, further scaring the keeper. He told a friend or two about it, then the rumour spread like mad, as rumours do in reptile circles. Quite likely what we're hearing is not what was said by the source, it's what the rumour mill has produced. No one seems to have heard from the keeper himself, so it's unlikely he actually wanted the rumours to be flying around as they are.
> 
> If a vet told someone that his snake had OPMV, you can't blame him for telling someone what happened. If I was naive enough to take a vet seriously and a vet told me I had a snake with OPMV, or if I suspected I had OPMV for any reason, I'd be telling people too. The main problem here (assuming it is not a case of OPMV) was the vet giving out an overconfident, almost baseless diagnosis, something which happens extremely often.
> 
> I think the person who bought the snake, went to the vet and got the diagnosis needs to speak up and set the story straight before the rumour mill creates its own version of the story. It might not have been their intention to start the rumours, but now that the rumours are out it's important to everyone, particularly the person who the snake came from, to let us know what is happening.


 
I have to agree completly with Sdaji on this, if the same thing happened to me and my vet gave me a report that a python I just purchased died of OPMV, what else would I think, I'd be freaking out! And if someone had asked me how my new purchase was, and I had this info I would tell them. If anyone should be blamed for anything here, it's the vet, unless they know 100% for sure they shouldn't be giving out any reports stating for fact that a python died of OPMV.


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## CodeRed (Apr 12, 2009)

People should just pull their heads in and not comment without knowing the facts. Most of you have no idea of the circumstances involved in this. The vet's report is based on post mortem pathology results not some circumstancial diagnosis. The **** is going to hit the perverbial fan if it hasnt already.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2009)

Some of you guys are giving this kid too much credit.
For one he was asked to keep this confidential until Luke had spoken to the vet himself ,or seen this alleged documentation, This kid did not.
Keep this clear, if in the unlikely event that Luke did have OPMV there will be no reason to keep anything quiet.
At this stage it seems however that Luke has been tried, convicted and hung without ever seeing, reading or talking to anyone by an inexperienced 17 year old and his juvenile mates.
Yeah, that sounds like a fair process.


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## redbellybite (Apr 12, 2009)

caustichumor said:


> It seems to go without question these days, all brown snakes are Taipans, and any dead pythons have OPMV....


or 'KING BROWNS' and yes I am surprised of how many speculate about OPMV when they either have a sick snake or a dead one ...and yet they seem never to actually put up the confirmation from the vet ....not a nice thing to slander someone with if you are not 100% sure that it was actually that


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## No-two (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Some of you guys are giving this kid too much credit.
> For one he was asked to keep this confidential until Luke had spoken to the vet himself ,or seen this alleged documentation, This kid did not.
> Keep this clear, if in the unlikely event that Luke did have OPMV there will be no reason to keep anything quiet.
> At this stage it seems however that Luke has been tried, convicted and hung without ever seeing, reading or talking to anyone by an inexperienced 17 year old and his juvenile mates.
> Yeah, that sounds like a fair process.


 
I don't find it fair at all that you're taking a dig at his age.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2009)

Take it how you will No-two, I have stated that he inexperienced and 17, both I believe are simple facts.


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## CodeRed (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Take it how you will No-two, I have stated that he inexperienced and 17, both I believe are simple facts.



How does inexperience make him wrong. One snake died within the first day, another has a permanent kink in its neck (oh I see how you glossed over that fact), and the last one had retained eye scales. The last two were seriously dehydrated. Thats pathetic that animals were shipped, let alone sold to a kid, in that condition.

Also a vet did the diagnosis not some 17 yr old kid. So now, David Vella, the vet who performed the autopsy is also inexperienced?


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## kupper (Apr 12, 2009)

at 17 im sure the person has gone to vetrinary school and has 10 years experience in diagnosing reptile pathogens and diseases , 

money was refunded and i am sure replacements where also offered , in any transactions book that is problems solved and failry delt with no questions asked 

I would be naming and shaming the buyer and not luke , when you have, keep and work with animals they are unpredictable in there natures and a simple slip up will either spell disaster or work out to be the best thing you have done 
this is the hobby we choose to be in and it goes with the territory the buyer needs to grow up pull there head in and realise that they are 17 probably kept reptiles for a year or two and slandering someone at last look was illegal and a sueable offence


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## No-two (Apr 12, 2009)

kupper said:


> at 17 im sure the person has gone to vetrinary school and has 10 years experience in diagnosing reptile pathogens and diseases ,
> 
> money was refunded and i am sure replacements where also offered , in any transactions book that is problems solved and failry delt with no questions asked
> 
> ...


 
Gosh the age thing never gets old with people on aps. Pretty ridiculous really. 17 or not I'm pretty sure he'd be able to tell the difference between a water python and an olive python.


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## bk201 (Apr 12, 2009)

besides the first post the thread is pointless unless the seller and the kid posts and shows the vet report. anything else is just people trying to get in on having a go at someone.


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## Eiroc (Apr 12, 2009)

funcouple said:


> i have wondered this. but wouldnt it go further than luke(iceman) collection? if OPMV is proved it must of been introduced into lukes collection by a snake that came from where??


 
Exactly!

And if any of these pepole making allegations knew Iceman and his snake's history, they would know that this introduction would not be possible. So OMPV - very unlikely! 
Prove it, or get a life guys!


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

The vet report will presumably be another one of those things which effectively says nothing more than "Yep, the snake was dead, we can't tell what killed it, so hey, perhaps it was OPMV". When it's worded more like "The death was consistent with OPMV" it seems more convincing, which is useful if you're charging money for it. Of course, they don't say "The death was consistent with extreme temperature exposure", they don't list the dozens of other possible causes, many of which are more likely than OPMV. They single out whatever happens to be the most in vogue disease at the time, which for the last few years has been OPMV. Nothing solid is known about OPMV. There is no consistent information available and no conclusive diagnostic tool, at least in this country.


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## funcouple (Apr 12, 2009)

this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet. this kid has waited weeks then told someone before he had the proof in his hand. this is his only inexperienced mistake. the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence? i realise he may of been advised not to comment, but im sure he could at least post saying that he will comment once this is or isnt proved. its time all chillout and wait and see if the proof comes out before making any further comments which may harm more than one persons reputation


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

Eiroc said:


> Exactly!
> 
> And if any of these pepole making allegations knew Iceman and his snake's history, they would know that this introduction would not be possible. So OMPV - very unlikely!
> Prove it, or get a life guys!



Proof either way is impossible, but you don't need to have new snakes come into a collection to bring a disease in. One mite picked up from another collection could sit on your clothes, crawl on to one of your snakes, bite it and pass an infection on. I do agree entirely though - OPMV is very unlikely in this case.

Strangely, collections exposed to animals from all over the place, such as those used in shows and animals kept in pet shops don't seem particularly prone to getting diseases. These are by far the ones most likely to be exposed to diseases, but there are countless examples of animals kept without quarantine for 5-10 (or more) years which are continually exposed to animals from all over the country, which never get sick. Many of the presumed OPMV (and earlier, IBD/Crypto/etc) outbreaks have been in collections with good quarantine and no identifiable disease vector. Sometimes I think I'm wasting my time with quarantine, but strange things certainly do happen and until we understand it, which I can't see happening in less than 10 years and probably a lot more, I'm going to quarantine and never assume anything is safe, regardless of where it came from.


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## kupper (Apr 12, 2009)

No-two said:


> Gosh the age thing never gets old with people on aps. Pretty ridiculous really. 17 or not I'm pretty sure he'd be able to tell the difference between a water python and an olive python.


 

i knew what it was mate! I was simply posting up for a confirmation and to make a thread on a fourm whilst killing time , nobody had a dig at you or are you the 17 year old who doesnt know what a legal ramafication is?


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 12, 2009)

If there is a vet's report stating the "death was consistent with OPMV," wouldn't it be wise for the person in question to quarantine their snakes for a reasonable period? Also, just to be sure, should all people who have purchased from this person be told to quarantine their snakes and keep a close eye on them?

I know if I slept with a girl that died with an illness consitent with HIV, I would like to be informed, regardless of the definitive diagnosis.


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## seumas12345 (Apr 12, 2009)

funcouple said:


> this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet. this kid has waited weeks then told someone before he had the proof in his hand. this is his only inexperienced mistake. the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence? i realise he may of been advised not to comment, but im sure he could at least post saying that he will comment once this is or isnt proved.


 
I think that in this case it's in his best interest just to wait until the vet report comes out... Until then everything that everyone says is just speculation... Only time will tell... I don't think it's a matter of blaming and punishing if the snake did have OPMV... Instead we need to focus on containing it so there isn't a widespread breakout (assuming it even was OPMV)...


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

So lets get this straight. How many Hatchie Stimsons have died? Out of a clutch of how many?


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## Dan123 (Apr 12, 2009)

> this so called inexperienced kid has gone to an experienced vet



from the facts that have been thrown into this thread (true or not is another question) the kid does not in any way sound intelligent it sounds more like him and his mates have scored some free pythons off an experianced keeper who is sounding very concerned with the matter. and after the kid sorted out HIS biggest problem (money) he has decided to defame an honest, good willed & experianced keeper/breeder by telling his mates there was ompv involved. nobody has even confirmed exactaly what the vet report has said or even if there was one which most would think would be the first thing for the person with the (ompv) case to do, also why is the person/s spreading these rumors on this site not the person who purchased the pythons and made the inital claims.

then comes the question of the vet in question (if there is one). are they a reptile vet, are they a reputable one, how many times have they diagnosed a case of ompv, what experiance have they had with ompv in wild or captive reptiles and if they could give a 100% diagnosis of ompv or if it was an inconclusive post-mortem autopsy but from pre death symptoms (listed by the owner not wittnessed by the vet) gave a chance of ompv among other things but the kid has jumped the gun and told parts of the story leaving out other parts.

i think there needs to be a cross examination and the matter resolved in private and if in worst case ompv is confirmed then the breeder has already stated he is willing to take serious measures and i would say that would involve contacting all parties that have had contact with his collection.


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## Eiroc (Apr 12, 2009)

I think the fact is that freighting reptiles at any stage is a risky business and although it's unfortunate, people loose them all the time. I think it was nice gesture that Iceman refunded the money although he wouldn't have been obilgated too (as he would have been peeved with a suspicious freight delivery).

As far as a vet is concerned, yes they are experts, but it is rare to find one that specialises in reptiles and or snakes. Most of the time, diseases are supsected and the story ends there with a death or best guess treatment. Identification usually results in a laboritory or universtity study/examination but it rarely goes down that path unless you spend a lot of money or know someone in the business.

Sorry the kid lost a pet, and I'm sorry that Iceman has to put up with a frustrating result whom i'm sure won't defend himself because he has done nothing wrong. I'm sure if that he is capable of doing the right thing if he suspected OMPV himself (which is more than I can say for some other breeders).


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## CodeRed (Apr 12, 2009)

I like Tuesdays


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## Dan123 (Apr 12, 2009)

> the part i dont understand is why luke (iceman) hasnt posted anything in his defence?



why should he. he never claimed anything and like everyone else involved he does not know the definate cause of death and is waiting for confirmed evidence of what is actually going on before explaining anything, at the moment this is a case of chinese whispers that has been brought public at a stage where unfortunatly there are plenty of facts that can be thrown in about the breeder and also the buyer but no real answer to why the python died so nothing can be done to prove or disprove anything


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## tan (Apr 12, 2009)

My two cents: If in fact a vet was involved it is probably more likely that the OPMV was mentioned as a possibility and the kid has heard only what he wanted to hear. I'm afraid there are far too many people out there trying to score something for free and also enjoy causing dramas and creating attention for themselves. If a vet report confirming to 100% was available I would expect to see this person defending himself and providing the proof. As this has not been done at least to the accused in question then I have serious doubts he has the relevant proof to back up his allegation. We see this all the times on open forum where someone is quick to blame and accuse without the relevant back-up in turn causing extreme consequences for the breeder. This is a major problem in online forums and unfortunately a lot of peoples hobbys are affected.
Think first before you speak people, keep your noses in your own backyard and deal with issues such as this directly with the person/people involved and mountains will not be created from molehills.
Good luck to those involved and I hope that once this is all sorted, it is made apparent to all who read this seeing as it was put on open forum and the buyer made it others business in the first place.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 12, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> The vet report will presumably be another one of those things which effectively says nothing more than "Yep, the snake was dead, we can't tell what killed it, so hey, perhaps it was OPMV". When it's worded more like "The death was consistent with OPMV" it seems more convincing, which is useful if you're charging money for it. Of course, they don't say "The death was consistent with extreme temperature exposure", they don't list the dozens of other possible causes, many of which are more likely than OPMV. They single out whatever happens to be the most in vogue disease at the time, which for the last few years has been OPMV. Nothing solid is known about OPMV. There is no consistent information available and no conclusive diagnostic tool, at least in this country.



John,are you suggesting that a report that concludes "consistent with OPMV" is nothing to be concerned about and that no action ie:notifying recent buyers,euthing or at least locking a remaining collection down for a decent period of time be implemented?


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## BenReyn (Apr 12, 2009)

Yeah, I see your point Sdaji, lol, im so damn derogative


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2009)

Codered
Please don’t go down the path of claiming that I have glossed over anything as people who know me, also know that I never operate that way.
So please explain how I have glossed over anything?
I have since asked Luke about your condition claims and according to Luke the reptiles looked (externally) perfectly fine when he sent them, e.g. no retained eye scale and no neck kink that was ever noticed by him and his reptiles always had water and he does not believe for a second he had sent dehydrated reptiles. 
Luke also went on to say that the kid himself said he could not notice one but the vet said it apparently had one?
Since you supposedly have further details (as evident), why don’t you enlighten us further?
Did you actually see and examine the three pythons when they arrived? Or are you going by what has been told to you?
Have you seen the exact wording on this vets report for yourself?
If you have, please tell us the wording. 

As far as the inexperience of the kid, I directly refer the meaning of this in the way he handled the situation by defamation without due process and his clear lack of understanding of the diagnosis of the virus, simple as that really.
Furthermore it doesn’t matter who the vet or how respected he might be, (but thanks for letting me know) if he can’t prove 100% that there was OPMV it doesn’t provide anything more valid than if his grandmother wrote it. Without seeing the exact wording of his report myself, I can only guess but I highly doubt he is brave enough to claim or write that it was OPMV conclusive.
It is far more likely that he may have wrote symptoms consistent with OPMV which of cause does not mean it has been confirmed.
I can’t wait to see.

Frogman
I do not know the exact amount of hatchlings he lost through excess heat, but it wasn’t very many out of the four clutches and I did warn him that there could possibly be further deaths and this has proven true with two Stimsons you being one of them.
Luke in this case has learnt a hard lesson and let’s sincerely hope there isn’t a more major one about to be learnt.

funcouple
Luke is doing a family thing this weekend and I am sure he will comment in due course.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 12, 2009)

Dave of course you will not see a "opmv conclusive" finding however if the finding is "consistent with OPMV" are you suggesting that it means nothing and should be completely disregarded?


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Codered
> Did you actually see and examine the three pythons when they arrived? Or are you going by what has been told to you?


 

Arent you? I mean did you see the Pythons when they were sent? Isnt EVERY statement youv'e made based off what you were TOLD?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

Ramsayi said:


> John,are you suggesting that a report that concludes "consistent with OPMV" is nothing to be concerned about and that no action ie:notifying recent buyers,euthing or at least locking a remaining collection down for a decent period of time be implemented?



No, of course not.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 12, 2009)

Fortunately for most of us, keeping a breeding reptiles is only a hobby. Having to euthanise you entire collection shouldn't have too much of a financial impact. If this allegation is completely erroneous, then only someone's reputation will be blemished - it's not as if someone is going to lose their business over this. ***yes I am being sarcastic***

We all know that in this situation there is not going to be a definitive diagnosis. This is not the fault of the buyer or the seller and probably will not be rectified for many years. No vet in Australia will be able to positively diagnose this disease without sending sample overseas - something the average person will ever agree to. Could you imagine saying yes to the question "Mr. Smith, I can send these samples to a laboratory in the United States for a definitive diagnosis but it's going to cost you several thousand dollars - are you OK with this?" Sure someone who owns a serum laboratory, zoo or business might say yes as his/her financial interest is at stake. Mr. Smith (pseudonymn) would not do this as it is far too costly.

I think Iceman has thus far handled this situation well. Now we must all sit back and wait to see what else he - and anyone who has bought snakes from him will do. I not saying for everyone who has purchased from him to euthanise their collection - just to consider imposing tight quarantine protocol and not sell any reptiles until this situation has been clarified.


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## biggie (Apr 12, 2009)

i hope for the rest of his collection that it is all untrue and good luck to anyone involved


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## CodeRed (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Codered
> Please don’t go down the path of claiming that I have glossed over anything as people who know me, also know that I never operate that way.
> So please explain how I have glossed over anything?
> I have since asked Luke about your condition claims and according to Luke the reptiles looked (externally) perfectly fine when he sent them, e.g. no retained eye scale and no neck kink that was ever noticed by him and his reptiles always had water and he does not believe for a second he had sent dehydrated reptiles.
> ...




You have a PM with all the details. The facts are indisputable.

I agree this matter should be dealth with between buyer and seller and not on APS (last place on earth this should be dealth with).


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## solar 17 (Apr 12, 2009)

*opmv......? & A*

Three quaters of the posts on this thread wouldn't stand up in court but two points that haven't been raised [unless l missed them]....the cost at present [without discounts or mates rates] is approx. $450.00 done in the USA. ....BUT THAT DOESN,T MEAN AT $140.00 THE PERSON DIDN'T GET IT DONE ...the second point for those curious at present these tests are post mortem [after death] ......cheers solar 17 [Baden]


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2009)

Eylandt
Yes I am only going on what I have been told and at this stage simply asking a question of codered to establish facts. I hardly see how your little pun is relevant if I haven’t attacked or accused him of anything yet.
Ramsayi
I really don’t know what is written for sure but yes if its says what you and I suspect it may says , I will disregard it as being confirmed but investigate it further including spending what ever it costs to send tissues to the states for further examination if possible.


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

So two out of four clutches surely doesn't constitute an OPMV incident in the whole collection.
If there was there would have been a hell of a lot more deaths than two.
I spoke to Luke when my stimson died. Was i concerned about the way and how quickly it died after delivery? Yes i was, we both were. Did i say it was OPMV? Absolutely not.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> if he can’t prove 100% that there was OPMV it doesn’t provide anything more valid than if his grandmother wrote it.


 
Not the way it works sorry. Its very hard to conclusively diagnose anything 100%. When a patient enters a hospital presenting symptoms "consistant with MRSA" they are treated as though they have MRSA until proven otherwise. Same with most other medical illnesses. The opinions made by a medical practitioner is not disregarded because a diagnosis has not been 100% proven.

Reading over this thread this is what I (someone completely unrelated to both parties) sees.

A buyer has taken their recently aquired Reptile to a VET as it has died suddenly. This VET has examined the "patient" and has reported that based on his examination he believes the symptoms are "consistant with OPMV".

This buyer has then, for whatever reason, contacted other people and reported his findings and as such a copy of the report has been requested.

Meanwhile you are on here beating your chest over a situation that really involves you just as much as it involves me attempting to belittle the buyer by taking stabs at his "inexperience" and "age" while the Seller focuses more on saving his reputation rather then focusing on the claim itself as well as the health and safety of his and his buyers collections.

Any animals on the market by this seller should be IMMEDIATELY removed, other possible or previous purchasers should be notified and an email/phone call should be made to the VET [email protected] or 02 9572 6854 to discuss the report that has been made.

Instead of argueing against the buyer over what has happened you should be working with him and his VET in an attempt to resolve it.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

frogboy said:


> I spoke to Luke when my stimson died. Was i concerned about the way and how quickly it died after delivery? Yes i was, we both were. Did i say it was OPMV? Absolutely not.


 
If Ive read correctly the buyer didnt make the conclusion, infact the thought probably didnt even cross his mind. He took the animal to a VET and was told the symptoms were consistant with OPMV.


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

I didn't take mine to the vet , just put it down to one of those things that happens.


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## biggie (Apr 12, 2009)

i doubt we will ever know there are to many people involved in this now if they wanted it covered up then it is a possibility its already done unfortunately they have the conections and stock between them to make it all disappear if thats what they wanted im not saying it is happening but i think it is a possibility concidering the value of people's collections


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## bk201 (Apr 12, 2009)

theres no facts really mostly made up stories all people not directly involved in this story can know is that
someone sold a snake someone braught it it died...and then people were told by the buyer that it was opmv no other facts have been told no proof has been told or shown either . all i know is that if i braught a snake it died and was confirmed to be opmv i would post up some proof and i would post the proof to the seller instead of just telling a select few through private message so if there was a possibility of it it could be contained and not affect alot of other people...
people need to put there torches and pitch forks down until proof is presented as thats the only way anything can be shown no sense argueing over stuff no one understands as only the possible vet and the buyer have actually any chance to present evidence either way.


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

The other stimson i have from the same delivery is doing fine with no problems whatsoever. If one had OPMV then surely this one would have shown the same symptoms at the same time or close to. It just hasn't happened. I say this because they were in the same bag tied about 200mm apart. There blows the OPMV theory.


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## Kersten (Apr 12, 2009)

I'm reminded of why I don't sell reptiles on the internet. I also understand now why some long term keepers end up with reputations for being narky and/or reclusive.

OPMV consistent? So it showed symptoms that could have been explained by anything from a bad shed to a respiratory infection or (as has been suggested) exposure to extreme temperatures. Seems to me that OMPV is the ADD of the herp world.


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## itbites (Apr 12, 2009)

Where exactly is this thread going? 
And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?

I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

Any snake death is consistent with OPMV. Look at what is written about OPMV. The symptoms include everything possibly imaginable. They range from absolutely nothing over a period of years, to sudden death with no symptoms, to something identical to a respiratory infection, to stargazing, loss of balance, refusal to eat, sluggishness, hyperactivity, fits, loss of body condition... the list goes on and on, and the symptoms can include any combination of the symptoms, including none of them! The path lab test is useless, so how can a snake die and not be 100% consistent with OPMV? You can't rule out OPMV in any snake, dead or alive. Your happy, healthy snake is right now 100% consistent with a chronic case of OPMV!

When a snake does die or get sick, there is/was a problem and all possibilities need to be considered. Yes, OPMV is a possibility, but so are many other things. If we jump to that _conclusion_ every time a snake dies we're going to assume OPMV, and it will be assumed to be in just about every collection everywhere. We're also going to miss any other agents causing snakes to die.


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

The mass hysteria doesn't do anyone any good at all.


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## Mayhem (Apr 12, 2009)

itbites said:


> Where exactly is this thread going?
> And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?
> 
> I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.


 
I agree. This thread is going nowhere and it was no one elses business to start with.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> If we jump to that _conclusion_ every time a snake dies we're going to assume OPMV, and it will be assumed to be in just about every collection everywhere. We're also going to miss any other agents causing snakes to die.


 

So the opinion made by the VET should have been ignored? Ahh.. Rightio.. Lesson to all our not so experienced herpers. In the event of illness take your Reptile to the VET, but ignore what they say if their report states anything that isnt 100% proven!


Are we all forgetting that the conclusion was made by *DR DAVID VELLA BSc BVSc (Hons)*
and not by the buyer?


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## Kersten (Apr 12, 2009)

frogboy said:


> The other stimson i have from the same delivery is doing fine with no problems whatsoever. If one had OPMV then surely this one would have shown the same symptoms at the same time or close to. It just hasn't happened. I say this because they were in the same bag tied about 200mm apart. There blows the OPMV theory.



There's just one problem with this theory Frogboy. You're attempting to use logic to combat hysteria, it's far more fun to run in a circle screaming "won't someone think of the children" than it is to use the old grey cells.

Yes Eyelandt, it was supposedly the vet (we can still read that word even when it isn't capitalised) who said it. Supposedly being the operative word.


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

itbites said:


> Where exactly is this thread going?
> And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?
> 
> I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.



The reptile community being what it is, rumours are going to fly around quietly behind the scenes unless it is brought into the public, openly. If the actual people involved post publicly, it (mostly) stops the rumour mill from changing the story. This is why the accused parties would want it public after the rumours have started.

The other side would (rightly or wrongly) want it public so that people could be warned not to purchase anything. If it actually was OPMV, this would be a good thing.

Either way, making it public and open is better than everyone finding out by rumour.


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## Freeloader (Apr 12, 2009)

I am not posting on this thread anymore just frustrates me too much. Off to play golf.


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## Sdaji (Apr 12, 2009)

Eylandt said:


> So the opinion made by the VET should have been ignored? Ahh.. Rightio.. Lesson to all our not so experienced herpers. In the event of illness take your Reptile to the VET, but ignore what they say if their report states anything that isnt 100% proven!
> 
> 
> Are we all forgetting that the conclusion was made by *DR DAVID VELLA BSc BVSc (Hons)*
> and not by the buyer?



I didn't say we should ignore it, but we need to understand what it means. If I can overheat a snake, kill it, take it to a vet and the vet will say it is 100% consistent with OPMV, and that diagnosis is going to cause everyone to accuse the seller of having OPMV through his whole collection, where does that leave us?

We shouldn't _ignore_ it. No one said that, I certainly didn't. It is, however, important that we don't confuse "consistent" with "actual". As I said, just about every snake, including perfectly healthy ones, are 100% consistent with OPMV. That includes all of your animals.

Plenty of people with letters after their names get things wrong and in some cases deliberately. I have letters after my name too. So what?


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## itbites (Apr 12, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> The reptile community being what it is, rumours are going to fly around quietly behind the scenes unless it is brought into the public, openly. If the actual people involved post publicly, it (mostly) stops the rumour mill from changing the story. This is why the accused parties would want it public after the rumours have started.
> 
> The other side would (rightly or wrongly) want it public so that people could be warned not to purchase anything. If it actually was OPMV, this would be a good thing.
> 
> Either way, making it public and open is better than everyone finding out by rumour.


 
I do agree that if this does turn out to be correct & it is ompv it should be made public
to warn others of a possible risk/outbreak of the virus.

I don't agree however with the way this thread has been made..the buyer is being discredited before even having had a chance to speak. (Which is just as bad as a buyer *without all the facts* making an issue public about a seller)

Lets not forget that the buyer in question did not go public about this & was merely 
speaking with other people privately about the matter...
I personally don't see that as slanderous. 
If I were faced with a similar situation I would most likely do the same.

In my opinion this thread is just about gossip & hear say I really hope the buyer can put their
"2 cents" in because at this point in time the thread *seems* very one sided jmo...


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> I didn't say we should ignore it, but we need to understand what it means. If I can overheat a snake, kill it, take it to a vet and the vet will say it is 100% consistent with OPMV, and that diagnosis is going to cause everyone to accuse the seller of having OPMV through his whole collection, where does that leave us?
> 
> We shouldn't _ignore_ it. No one said that, I certainly didn't. It is, however, important that we don't confuse "consistent" with "actual". As I said, just about every snake, including perfectly healthy ones, are 100% consistent with OPMV. That includes all of your animals.
> 
> Plenty of people with letters after their names get things wrong and in some cases deliberately. I have letters after my name too. So what?


 

Actually I think you'll find its a case of the seller and his mate attempting to publically discredit the buyers comments made in private to people he regularly interacted with. As far as Im aware no one has said its 100% OPMV.

Good to see that you are taking the report with some seriousness. Pilbarapythons sure isnt as he stated that it has as much validity as it would if his grandmother wrote it.

Medically there is rarely "actuals". Ussually incidents happen which are consistant with an illness. 

Few years back I had a hernia operation. Report states that my symptom's were consistant with a hernia. Few weeks back my mother had an allergic reaction to a tablet and her report states that her symptoms were consistant with anaphylaxis. Are you suggesting that actions shouldnt have been taken to rectify the situation simply because it wasnt 100% proven? Its not the way the world works buddy.

Your joking about the name part right? Go look up what these letters mean and then tell me again how irelevent they are.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

itbites said:


> In my opinion this thread is just about gossip & hear say I really hope the buyer can put their
> "2 cents" in because at this point in time the thread *seems* very one sided jmo...


 

itbites, The most ironic part is that even the seller hasnt had a chance to put their 2 cents in!


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Oh and just further to the anaphylaxis example. She hasnt seen a written report stating as such yet because anaphylaxis symptoms can be so many other things. Doesnt change the fact that because the doctor stated "Your symptoms are consistant with an anayphylaxic allergy to penicillin" she no longe takes penicillin. Do you see where your arguement is flawed Pilbarapythons?


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## Kersten (Apr 12, 2009)

Oh I get it now, you've seen the report! Up until now I'd made the mistake of thinking this whole thing was heresay.

Your logic would be spot on Eyelandt if tere had never been any case of someone being told their symptoms were consistent with something that wasn't what they actually had. I was told my son's reaction to his tetanus booster was consistent with the normal reaction after a shot like that. I was told this by someone with letters after their name. The doctor who saw him the next day said he was in fact having an allergic reaction and that if I'd listened to the first diagnosis and had let my son have another booster later on down the track he'd have died.


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## CodeRed (Apr 12, 2009)

itbites said:


> I do agree that if this does turn out to be correct & it is ompv it should be made public
> to warn others of a possible risk/outbreak of the virus.
> 
> I don't agree however with the way this thread has been made..the buyer is being discredited before even having had a chance to speak. (Which is just as bad as a buyer *without all the facts* making an issue public about a seller)
> ...



Oh no, I agree with you 

Yes the buyer did not go public he merely PMed a friend. It is the seller (or sellers partner) that went public. If Dave didnt make this thread then it would have remained private and been solved in an appropriate manner without damaging anyone. Too late now.

This thread should stop and the buyer and seller allowed to work things out ... in private.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Kersten said:


> Oh I get it now, you've seen the report! Up until now I'd made the mistake of thinking this whole thing was heresay.


 
Has anybody? Doesnt change the fact that a claim was made and preventative actions should be made until more information is at hand.


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## Mrs I (Apr 12, 2009)

I think this thread should be shut and only left open to be able to post in by the seller and the buyer, as they are the only two people that really have any facts about the sale, the purchase and the vet report.

Everything else is just chinese whispers until they step forward.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Thread shouldnt exist at all in my opinion. Only public defamation thats been made is by Pilbarapythons in relation to a situation that has nothing to do with them. Should have all been kept private like it has been up until now.


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## Kersten (Apr 12, 2009)

Eyelandt....I haven't said a word about whether or not preventative actions should be taken. Not one. I also haven't come on here and insisted that the word of the vet be taken when we don't even know if the vet in question has said a word. I could tell you that Kevin Rudd told me he was actually Imelda Marcos. Doens't make it true.


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

Kersten said:


> Eyelandt....I haven't said a word about whether or not preventative actions should be taken. Not one. I also haven't come on here and insisted that the word of the vet be taken when we don't even know if the vet in question has said a word. I could tell you that Kevin Rudd told me he was actually Imelda Marcos. Doens't make it true.


 

Kersten my honest opinion is that the Reptile probably doesnt have OPMV. Im not suggesting that what the VET stated is absolute fact. My beef is that Im currently looking for a pair of stimsons and I could have spent money on a pair that could possibly be connected to OPMV.

As I stated previously, all sales should be temporarily suspended (Ive heard that the seller should have a copy of the report next wednesday), people that have purchased from the clutch be notified and the seller get in touch with the VET rather then having his friends come on here in an aatempt to belittle the buyer.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2009)

Codered
I agree with you in that facts are indisputable otherwise they wouldn’t be facts in the first place.
Thanks for your PM because you have established a few points already, 
1 being, that you did not see the reptiles yourself and 2 being, that the vet report did say consistent with OPMV not confirmed OPMV.
Your information does invite a few more questions i.e. what was the time period between receiving the reptiles and the vet externally examining the 2 other live Stimsons ?
I don’t expect you to know the answer to this so I guess we will find out more when your buddy gets back from his break. 

I respect your desire to not get into a slanging match here on a forum however this was not ever my intention either regardless if that was somewhat naive.

Off note, a wild caught Pilbara Olive python last year was supplied (by the D.E.C) to the Naturalist Reptile Park south of Perth that was perfectly healthy but died a day later, you guessed it, the vets report were symptoms consistent with OPMV. It actually turned out that AAE left the snake in the sun and cooked it, go figure.

Eylandt
You have either not bothered to read my posts correctly, or you simply sniffed petrol when you were much younger.
You post the very obvious as if you truly believe we know all the facts (including which vet was involved) in the first place. Perhaps I could suggest a more careful attention span before tapping the computer keys with self evaluated misconceptions.
When we have a few facts and yes, we now have a few, Luke will take any appropriate actions that he deems to be the right thing.

To the punters
In my opinion OPMV and the public accountability for such should be every reptile keepers business if they are interested in the first place, this is not the reason however I started this thread. Read my fist post to no why if you can be bothered.
On the positive, discussions like this in part, rein enforce the ramifications many of us face (or will face) with this ugly virus and this helps combat complacency.


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## iceman (Apr 12, 2009)

just so you all dont think im hinding, the buyer did say to me on the phone thursday night that he would not go public an tell anyone an he did say to me that the vet said it was 100% OMPV an i told him i need all the reports an everythink else from the vet, so i can have a chance to have it look at by another reptile vet.

if it proves to be true an i do have OMPV in my collection i will take all the right steps to deal with it, i mean i will euthanis all my animals an destroy all cages an equipment, which i believe is the right thing to do by the animals an the reptile keeping hobby in australia an will track down the sauce of where it came from an make that person name public so nobody else has to go through this.

as none of my adult animals have ever show any sign of sickness an i've never had one die on me in the 7yrs i've been keeping reptiles for, i dont see how it could be OMPV that is killing these hatchling an yes i did get hit by a bad heat wave an loss some hatchling animals to the heat wave .


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## Eylandt (Apr 12, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Eylandt
> You have either not bothered to read my posts correctly, or you simply sniffed petrol when you were much younger.
> You post the very obvious as if you truly believe we know all the facts (including which vet was involved) in the first place. Perhaps I could suggest a more careful attention span before tapping the computer keys with self evaluated misconceptions.
> When we have a few facts and yes, we now have a few, Luke will take any appropriate actions that he deems to be the right thing.


 
Ah.. more attempts to belittle others. Mate, Im not the one who is disregarding a VET report. Your comments on here do nothing more then display your character and you have no one but yourself to blame for that. Of course the $140 report wouldnt be "confirmed" OPMV but it doesnt make it null and void.

You keep slandering people on here while advertising those pythons on your website, at least the public will be aware that you have no regard for medical reports nor do you have any concerns for the safety and well being of the animals.

Will keep watching this thread in hope that eventually somebody who is actually involved in the situation posts, until then.. Keep Dribbling Pilbarapythons.


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 12, 2009)

I agree with some people, that vthis should be shut and resumed privetly with the buyer and seller.


Will


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## NCHERPS (Apr 12, 2009)

I have closed this thread now.

The buyer and seller can deal with it offline.


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## Slateman (Apr 13, 2009)

I strongly agree with Neil.
Spreading rumours in this nature is not what aps like to support.


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