# Can anyone lend me 10k.... :(



## angelrose (Jan 19, 2005)

Black-headed Python breeding pairs. A rare chance to purchase a breeding collection of Queensland form Blackheads, from five different bloodlines. Consisting of 2 x 4 yr olds, 2 x 3 yr olds, and 2 x 2 yr olds. All animals are in excellent condition and have been grown for long term breeding. Feeding and sloughing records will accompany each animal. 

4k a pair or 10k the lot..... im soooooooooo jealous....



Angel

ps c/o the herptrader


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## indicus (Jan 19, 2005)

"Too dear!!!, what a joke"..........


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## Mr.K (Jan 19, 2005)

kkkkkkkkkk - I'll take the lot!! :lol:


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## hey_im_sam (Jan 19, 2005)

I didn't think they would call them breeding pairs when no animal is over 4 years old  Seems a bit pricey to me....


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## womas4me (Jan 19, 2005)

Exactly, how can a pair of 2 year olds be marketed as a breeding pair. Sounds very pricey for a gamble.


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## Mr.K (Jan 19, 2005)

> Seems a bit pricey to me....


Yeah, i reckon its a bit rich too....


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 How is it that 4 years isnt old enough for breeding?Bhps will breed in 2 years male or female but as bian Barnett told me once the female must have enough size.


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

I reckon they would make a good investment but never pay the retail price.


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## womas4me (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

So to get a 2 year old female up to alarge size you would have to powerfeedit yeah. I was once told that animals fed too much that grow too quick have reduced lifespans.


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## Parko (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

Talk about a rich mans hobby :roll: . Really makes me see what a bargain Bredli, Jungles and other great pythons are!


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 To qualify what i stated. my female bhp was hatched in late oct02 and laid 9 eggs in august 04.which makes it about 20months.The male was slightly younger.My incubation was a disaster cause i added too much water and the temps fluctuated too much.I can say though that 8 eggs were fertile and there was one slugg.


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## hey_im_sam (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

do you keep decent records... how big was the female at that stage?? Fed a ****load?


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## womas4me (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

How longwere they oldfella. Speaking to a few people i have been told animals close to the 2 mter mark will be likely to breed easier. Any truth in that


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## herptrader (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



hey_im_sam said:


> do you keep decent records... how big was the female at that stage?? Fed a ****load?



Black Headeds have an amazing appetite and can grow quickly. What amazes me is that you can feed them a HUGE meal and a couple of days later they look quite scrawny.


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## herptrader (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

This is a table of the minium breeding sizes for Australian Python species adapted from Rick Shine's book - "Australian Snakes".

Based on this table as long as the male black head is 1.17m long and the female 1.2m they are of breeding size. Age is not meant to be a factor.



> "Species", "MinimumMaleSize", "MinimumFemaleSize", "MaleSize", "FemaleSize", "Average Clutch size", "Common Name"
> "Liasis stimsoni", "660 mm", "638 mm", "880 mm", "850 mm", "6", "Stimson's Python"
> "Morelia amethystina", "1440 mm", "1748 mm", "1920 mm", "2330 mm", "11", "Scrub Python"
> "Morelia spilota", "975 mm", "1133 mm", "1300 mm", "1510 mm", "21", "Diamond and Carpet Python"
> ...


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Sam i got the juv fem from Roy pails in dec and assist fed it straight away.The credit card method (one day rat)thence placed back in hide box with another placed at the entrance.The go with bhp juvs is to add more food to the enclosure once you have assist fed cause bhps are by nature animals that look for more.There only kept with floor heat i reckon they like it that way as the air temp cools down at night that way.Womas4me the fem is QLD type and was over 7ft in feb 04 when i ceased feeding prior to breeding. It prelayed on the13th july 04 and layed on the 16th august 04.Placed with 2 males in early marrch and it was gravid mid may.I did not observe ovulation.


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## peterescue (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



herptrader said:


> hey_im_sam said:
> 
> 
> > do you keep decent records... how big was the female at that stage?? Fed a ****load?
> ...



sounds like gut parasites to me.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Sam i got the juv fem from Roy pails in dec and assist fed it straight away.The credit card method (one day rat)thence placed back in hide box with another placed at the entrance.The go with bhp juvs is to add more food to the enclosure once you have assist fed cause bhps are by nature animals that look for more.There only kept with floor heat i reckon they like it that way as the air temp cools down at night that way.Womas4me the fem is QLD type and was over 7ft in feb 04 when i ceased feeding prior to breeding. It prelayed on the13th july 04 and layed on the 16th august 04.Placed with 2 males in early marrch and it was gravid mid may.I did not observe ovulation.


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## herptrader (Jan 19, 2005)

*Table of breeding sizes*

This version may be a little easier to read...


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k....*

 Trying to work out how to get pic posted.


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## sxereturn (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



Parko said:


> Talk about a rich mans hobby :roll: . Really makes me see what a bargain Bredli, Jungles and other great pythons are!



But they are all just carpet pythons, the only main thing that changes is colouration. Aspidites are a totally different genus, they don't occur anywhere else in the world, and aren't just a regular python, they have some form of uniqueness...

Depends if you're keeping snakes to go "Oh look, how pretty" or because you have an interest in reptiles. I'm not saying you don't have an interest in reptiles so don't get all antsy...

Still a steep price though.

-Jonno


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Yeh probably a bit pricey,depends on the colour and if there captive bred,wild bhps arnt value but captive bred black and white, yahoo! The pic above was the fem in late may 04,gravid there but not overweight.The pic below is the male from central QLD bred by Ken Worley,you can see its not overweight.


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## Ricko (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

nice snakes oldfella, i would love to see a good pic of the female if you have one please?


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Ricko heres a pic of the female but its not good as when i resizem they look fuzzy.Gettn on to the original topic i suppose proven breeders that were captive bred would demand the highest price and then theres the colour factor,mine are not a great colour but theyll do.


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## dobermanmick (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

Yep they will do !


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## AGAMIDAE (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

sure whats your bank account.......one condition I recieve 2/3's of the clutch for the next 10 years


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

:lol: Try bigguy Agamidae hes got heaps and they breed,he has his white one on special this week ya get to keep 70% of youngns for 10 years or the term of ya natural life.Then theres AD if that fails hes got those ugly black and white ones,no variation just black then white black then white ive gotta stop the jjjjeeeaaaallllooouuusssyyyy is killing me! :twisted:


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## herptrader (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



peterescue said:


> herptrader said:
> 
> 
> > hey_im_sam said:
> ...


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## shanesaussie_pythons (Jan 19, 2005)

*can anyone lend me 10k....*

Hi all shane here.From shanesaussie_pythons.It aniose me when people say there selling breeding pairs of pythons .Just becuase they are almost adult age.I have been breeding austalian pythons continuesly for 18 years now.And just you may have an adult male and an adult female .They are not a breeding pair .!!What t5hey are thow is a possible breeding pair.Some pythons can be very selective! Some females want except some males were they will except others.Untill they have actully bred secsefully.They are not breeding pairs .They may even be infertile or produce to low levels of sperm to actully reproduce.Italk to many new herps who are gung ho and aquire every adult python they can get there hands on because they herd about good breeders .and they almost send them selfs broke in the process .And nothing ever breeds for them .THen they start telling others that shanes not breeding them .He must be takeing them from the wild.Because they them selfs have tryed and cant there to hard .What it boils down to is that they havent done there home work mn.THey dont even Know the reproductive anatame of what they are trying to breed.Anyway im getting off track here (sorry)To call a pair a breeding pair they must have atleast produced before!! So beware of false advertisement .And exsorbedent pricess.regardsSHANE from aussie pythons


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## africancichlidau (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: can anyone lend me 10k....*

Hear Hear Shane.


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## Mr.K (Jan 19, 2005)

*RE: can anyone lend me 10k....*

well, i gotta say that im surprised to hear some of the info in this thread. I have read as much information as i could find (alot) on BHP's and have spoken at length with experienced breeders and still i hear certain things that contradict, and also compliment what ive read and beleive. The diversity of it all stunns me sometimes. :shock:


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Well said shane! Mr K imfo comes out now cause us older ones are slower to embrace technology i reckon.If you really want to know something go to the to.I have had advice from bigguy (bob withey),Brian barnett,shanes aussie pythons,neil sonnemann,Robin mcleod,Bruce riddel,and Dave barker, If ya want to know something ASK, all of these people have helped me cause i couldnt find what i wanted to know in books or on the internet. Yeh , when you search for imfo on breeding bhps on the internet or whatever you come to a zero so join aussie pythons. :wink:


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## Mr.K (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

I do ask oldfella....thats the thing though, everyone has different ideas and yet even though we speak to peolpe with years of experience, i have been told the total opposite of what some of the things i have read in this thread. anyways, i'm really confident in the information in which i beleive is kosher (all recommended by the experienced in my area) and so far i couldnt be happier with the way my BHP's are going, but thanks alot for the list anyway as i will no doubt heed your advise and keep asking qu. to the successful "older ones". Cheers  
By the way old fella, i reckon that your BHP's are really nice looking.....nuthin wrong with the colouring there - nice patterns


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## Slateman (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

Looks like I have lot of breeding pairs also.


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## sxereturn (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



Mr.K said:


> I do ask oldfella....thats the thing though, everyone has different ideas and yet even though we speak to peolpe with years of experience, i have been told the total opposite of what some of the things i have read in this thread. anyways, i'm really confident in the information in which i beleive is kosher (all recommended by the experienced in my area) and so far i couldnt be happier with the way my BHP's are going, but thanks alot for the list anyway as i will no doubt heed your advise and keep asking qu. to the successful "older ones". Cheers
> By the way old fella, i reckon that your BHP's are really nice looking.....nuthin wrong with the colouring there - nice patterns



What have you read on here the contradicts what you have been told?

Remember - it's the internet. People are full of confidence due to the anonymous nature of it...just because you read it doesn't make it true.


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## sarahbell (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

i was told from 2 different ppl,both very experienced reptile keeper,2 completely diiferent things.
One said BHPs are easier than rabbits to breed and the other said they were they hardest reptile to breed,


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k....*

 Sxereturn theres a lot crap on the internet and in publications also.Usually revolves around myth perpetuation.Theres a few with blackheads .Maybe it makes people feel better to give an excuse for there ignorance of reptile husbandry.Allot of those myths have to do with fertility in bhps whever male or female.All i can say is that its a size thing as brian barnett told me and that also is backed up by Dr Richard Shine in his book "Australian snakes a natural history" its a book put together from research not myths.Yeah all ican say is that some people will never get them to breed ever regardless of age,its a husbandry thing more than an age thing! :wink: :wink:


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## Trouser (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

I want to know when the price of blackheads will come down so the missus will let me get some. Surely more people successfully breed them every year so therefore there are more around. Im sure the breeders of these totally awesome pythons probably don't want me to bring this up, but every year there seems to be more and more advertised for sale but the prices never seem to go down. Then you see a lot of people start advertising a "two year old breeding pair" which creates the idea that "OH this guys selling a two year old breeding pair, Why would he want to do that?, Must be short for cash, I'll get myself a bargan because he's desperate for cash". Meanwhile its just some breeder who couldn't sell them as hatchies or yearlings because they were to expensive so he holds on to them for another year and tacks on another 300 squid at least and sells them as "a breeding pair" to make them sound more attractive. Im sorry if this ticks people off but its my opinion and I reckon there are a lot of people out there more concerned with making a quick buck than simply doing it for the love of reptiles.


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## sxereturn (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

There are more Chondro's in NSW than Stimsoni. Stimsoni are $150 as hatchlings, Chonro's are $5000+...


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

 Trouser they dont hatch as many females for eg the female i got from Roy Pails was the only fem in about 13 hatchies. So naturally they are in shorter supply and a higher price is a result.Males can be obtained for a lower price.Always by captive bred and its safer to by juvs for that reason.


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## Simon_Archibald (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*



sxereturn said:


> There are more Chondro's in NSW than Stimsoni. Stimsoni are $150 as hatchlings, Chonro's are $5000+...



No there's not. As of April '04 there was 445 Stimsons held in NSW and 91 GTP's. Who did your research?

Simon Archibald


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## Greebo (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*



> I want to know when the price of blackheads will come down


 If you bought a breeding pair would you sell any of the the offspring cheaper? Especially when ppl are still paying $900-$1000 for them. In theory, the more that are captive bred, the cheaper they will become.(The old supply and demand theory). I'm not holding my breath though.


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## womas4me (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

With the sex ratio being like you say oldfella do you know if temp or another factor can detemine sex. There has to be a scientific explanation for sex ratios in a clutch, if someone can work out how sex is determined, then some things can be done to improve ratios


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k*

 Womas4me thats a good question.Wonder sometimes about wild ratios and whether they are any different,and if its a temp thing in captivity.A guy i know in bris got 3 F out of 9 but thats still 2 to 1. Bigguy would know more about this subject as he has been breeding for a long time.


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## Mr.K (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*



> What have you read on here the contradicts what you have been told?


the info relating to ages and breeding, also the lengths etc. ive been told that BHP's are extremely hard to breed, actually that they are the hardest of the pythons to breed, and shouldnt be expected to become gravid before at least the age of 5. Anyway which way it is, it was a challenge for me to take on the BHP's and hopefully one day i'll be able to share my successes stories, which i am very optimistic about.


> i was told from 2 different ppl,both very experienced reptile keeper,2 completely diiferent things.
> One said BHPs are easier than rabbits to breed and the other said they were they hardest reptile to breed,


hehe, maybe we have been speaking to similar breeders


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## sxereturn (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*



Simon_Archibald said:


> sxereturn said:
> 
> 
> > There are more Chondro's in NSW than Stimsoni. Stimsoni are $150 as hatchlings, Chonro's are $5000+...
> ...



I'm sure there were more Stimsoni than Viridis...or was it more Stimsoni than Melanocephalus? Either way, there was something that is fairly expensive that was more common, than Stimsoni...


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## Simon_Archibald (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

There are more Aspidites melanocephalus than Antaresia stimsoni.

Simon Archibald


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## sxereturn (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

My bad.


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## womas4me (Jan 20, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

Thats good. We here in WA can help with the stimsoni shortfall. Do it for your state and buy a stimsoni toay.


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## Trouser (Jan 22, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k....*

Would selective breedng be worth while? e.g breeding from parents that throw a more desireable ratio and so on.


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## angelrose (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



AGAMIDAE said:


> sure whats your bank account.......one condition I recieve 2/3's of the clutch for the next 10 years



Deal

063541 10603118

*^
~


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2005)

This is a bigger pic of the juvy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Magpie (Jan 23, 2005)

Stimmies are highly under-rated as they are so similar to childreni and the ubiquitous macs.
They are one of the nicest snakes out there I reckon. 
This year it has been easier to find hatchy bhp's than hatchy stims so far.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

8) Magpie ile swap you a stimsons for a bhp!


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## Magpie (Jan 23, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

If I can get some more stimmies, I'll swap them for your bhp oldfella.
But I aint swapping any of the ones I've already got.
Clearly no one is going to do so as they can sell the bhp for $1000 and buy 4 stimmies if they can get them. Dollar value is not the be all and end all though. I still say stimmies are very undervalued.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2005)

*Can anyone lend me 10k...*

pmsl :lol: Like i stated ile swap you one of my stims for a bhp ,i dont need stims. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## angelrose (Jan 23, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

lol, this thread is turning out to be a good laugh lol....

Angel


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## Greebo (Jan 23, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



> this thread is turning out to be a good laugh


Let me know when that happens.


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## angelrose (Jan 23, 2005)

*RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*

lol, lazy bugger, hit the watch thread yoself lmao
lol

Angel


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## trader (Jan 23, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: Can anyone lend me 10k...*



> Black-headed Python breeding pairs.
> 4k a pair or 10k the lot..... im soooooooooo jealous...



I updated the ad this morning to read as 'sold' :wink: 

Cheers, Judy (aka HerpTrader)


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