# Cane Toad found in Baxter Victoria



## Chrisreptile (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi everyone,
i work at bunarong aquarium in frankston and yestersay a customer from baxter e-mailed us pictures of a frog asking if we thought that it was a cane toad, and looking at the pictures it was obviusly a toad.

so he brought it in today, its about 100-120mm long so im guessing its just a subadult.

sorry i dont have any pics.

do you think that it was brought down here by humans? or are they breeding down here?

cheers


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 13, 2008)

Chris,

It's definitely translocated. It's quite common for them to be found all over Australia, but they don't normally survive. The population of them here in SEQ was incredibly low up until the start of the year, when the rain came. There are now literally millions upon millions of young ones emerging from any little puddle that could possibly support them. Time to break out the golf clubs...


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## bredli_lover (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeah...they're spreading so fast - cane toads are one of the few things i dont feel bad killing....(mosquites, reptile food and cane toads)


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 13, 2008)

Chris,

It's definitely translocated. It's quite common for them to be found all over Australia, but they don't normally survive. The population of them here in SEQ was incredibly low up until the start of the year, when the rain came. There are now literally millions upon millions of young ones emerging from any little puddle that could possibly support them. Time to break out the golf clubs...


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## shlanger (Mar 13, 2008)

*Cane toad*

In recent times, a bloke in Nth. Vic. got fined big time for having 2 Buffo marinus in his possesion!


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## dunno103 (Mar 13, 2008)

I wish he had a gaol sentance (unless he planned to kill them ) for keeping an animal that should be exterminated without predijuce. IMO anyone who lets one of them to live should be fined very big time, unles they are too busy , then the informant can kill it and then they are liable. There should be a bounty on their bodies and eggs, as a taxpayer I would rather see money going into this bounty thanj othe rubbish that it is spent on. Save our fauna with everything you have but only if you can ID something properly.

KILL ALL CANETOADS in Australia

Cheers


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## salebrosus (Mar 13, 2008)

Dettol works very well, it just kills everything else too, so be careful where you squirt it.


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## Chrisreptile (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the responses everyone,

i thought it was a translocation to jonno, i just couldnt think of the word lol

the DSE should be picking it up tomorrow and disposing of it.


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## Chrisreptile (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the responses everyone,

i thought it was a translocation to jonno, i just couldnt think of the word lol

the DSE should be picking it up tomorrow and disposing of it.


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## cris (Mar 13, 2008)

salebrosus said:


> Dettol works very well, it just kills everything else too, so be careful where you squirt it.



A great choice if you are into animal cruelty, IMO the best way is a solid wack to the head. You can fridge and freeze them if you are into stressing them out for a slow and supposedly painless death. An airgun fired at the base of the neck or brain also works well if you are in a situation where its legal to use guns.


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## salebrosus (Mar 13, 2008)

cris said:


> A great choice if you are into animal cruelty, IMO the best way is a solid wack to the head. You can fridge and freeze them if you are into stressing them out for a slow and supposedly painless death. An airgun fired at the base of the neck or brain also works well if you are in a situation where its legal to use guns.



Get over it, not eveybody can get hold of a gun to shoot them, and a solid whack to the head doesnt always kill them, they suck their guts back in and still hop off. Dettol has killed them the quickest and with the amount of toads i get near my place, i have had plenty of practice. Don't start on the cruelty to animals debate, cos we could argue all day about how cruel it is to feed crickets to our herps.


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## mckellar007 (Mar 13, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Chris,
> 
> Time to break out the golf clubs...


 

GOOD, ive been meaning to work on my drive!


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## cris (Mar 13, 2008)

salebrosus said:


> Get over it, not eveybody can get hold of a gun to shoot them, and a solid whack to the head doesnt always kill them, they suck their guts back in and still hop off. Dettol has killed them the quickest and with the amount of toads i get near my place, i have had plenty of practice. Don't start on the cruelty to animals debate, cos we could argue all day about how cruel it is to feed crickets to our herps.



Fair enough, I dont pretend to care about the well being of animals or ppl that are out of my control or contact. I was just pointing out its a very cruel way to kill them, if you dont mind killing animals in an unnecessarily cruel way go for it, i would rather them killed even if you dont want to be humane about it.


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## Miss_Croft (Mar 14, 2008)

Cris – I agree with you – all animals have a right not to put through suffering (Die a cruel death). 

The preferred method is cooling and then freezing – but at least one government body has suggested use of dettol – it shorts out the brain of the toad (Much like electrocuting the toad). See snippet with original article on the Queensland EPA website.

Use of golf clubs or other methods of bashing a cane toad to death is illegal and would not suggest telling the world about it by posting here. I understand someone recently got fined $15,000 for bashing a cane toad to death via use of a golf club. Clubbing cane toads also risk injury to the clubber (Cane Toad poison splatter)

http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/register/p00820aq.pdf
Cane toads are a risk to tadpoles and mature frogs. Whether or not you have a pond, it is a good idea to collect them at night and freeze them in a plastic bag. Beware the poison glands on their backs. Another humane method for killing them (there is no reason to be cruel — they didn’t ask to come here) is to squirt them with Dettol or Toadex — but _not _salt. The bodies can be composted.


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## cris (Mar 14, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> Use of golf clubs or other methods of bashing a cane toad to death is illegal and would not suggest telling the world about it by posting here.



Where does it say you cant kill a toad by bashing its head? as far as i know blunt trauma to the brain(instant stop to brain function) is considered a humane and perfectly legal method of euthanasia. I have never had a problem with the poison as i hit their head not the shoulders where the glands are. I dont encourage the use of golf clubs unless you are a pro golfer i suspect many golf clubbed toads would take days-weeks to die if they die at all. 

Spraying detol on a toad is probably about equal to injecting it into a mamals veins.


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 14, 2008)

detol works well but seems to make them roll around in obvious distress for quite a while .
on the upside tho toads that are killed with detol dont attract scavangers if they get away and die somewhere.
a good high volume water pistol with a 30% detol to 70% water is very effective.


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## notechistiger (Mar 14, 2008)

If a toad just gets up after you've given it a whack to the nearest hard surface, then it means that you're not hitting it hard enough. I pick them up by the back legs, and peg them into the fence (which is wood) or concrete. Ta-Da! Instant death. And yes, this is the preferred method of euthenasia, other than C02 gasing, because many people don't have the equipment/knowledge to using the gasing method (like me, who doesn't have the equipment).

I once did a trial of Metho versus Dettol in one night, and found Metho to be much better. Than, the night after, I did a Metho versus blunt trauma, and the blunt trauma won hands down. Also, danger because of toad poison spray back is not a high risk, unless the poison lands in your mouth/nose/eyes, or in a cut. Otherwise, just wash it off with a good, strong soap.


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## notechistiger (Mar 14, 2008)

Also, if I kill a cane toad with blunt force trauma, then I always spray them with something to ward away scavengers, such as Metho, Ajax or, indeed, Dettol. That way, I elimiate the stress to the animal by a slow death from toxic liquids.


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## Kathryn_ (Mar 14, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> I understand someone recently got fined $15,000 for bashing a cane toad to death via use of a golf club..


 
I should bloody well hope so. What a horrid thing to do to an animal. After all the talk on here about how despicable it is to violently kill snakes that wander across people's paths, I'm amazed that anyone would think it acceptable to bludgeon another species of sentient animal to death, even a big ugly poisonous one. Bag ém and freeze ém, folks, it's far kinder.


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## mcloughlin2 (Mar 14, 2008)

Kathryn_ said:


> I should bloody well hope so. What a horrid thing to do to an animal. After all the talk on here about how despicable it is to violently kill snakes that wander across people's paths, I'm amazed that anyone would think it acceptable to bludgeon another species of sentient animal to death, even a big ugly poisonous one. Bag ém and freeze ém, folks, it's far kinder.


 
Oh come on. I bet no one on here would like to die in a freezer. Why should a cane toad be put through it? Its a slow, and painful way to die. They don't die peacefully, they die because their organs shut down one after the other. When i go to QLD i kill as many toads i can. A quick hit to the head with a golf club or bat and they are gone.

*Kathryn_,*

Maybe you should watch your pet dog die, a native bird die, or any other animal your fond of die slowly as the poison from a cane toad flows through their body. Maybe you should watch, like some family i know in QLD all the green tree frogs die and disappear from their backyard as the toads ate them and took their habitat. People shouldn't feel sympathy for an animal like this.


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## cris (Mar 14, 2008)

Kathryn_ said:


> I should bloody well hope so. What a horrid thing to do to an animal. After all the talk on here about how despicable it is to violently kill snakes that wander across people's paths, I'm amazed that anyone would think it acceptable to bludgeon another species of sentient animal to death, even a big ugly poisonous one. Bag ém and freeze ém, folks, it's far kinder.



I kill heaps of animals by blunt trauma, IMO it is the ONLY guranteed effective humane method for all animals without having to go into complex procedures or using vetenary drugs. If you think its wrong simply because its "violent" thats your problem. Some ppl can handle reality and nature some cant...

If someone really needs to kill a snake to protect themselves(this is very rare) i would hope that they shoot it or give it a clean whack on the head so it DOESNT suffer at all. After all these horrid animals are constantly going around killing prey with violence :lol: You can go and eat soy beans while i pick the headshot cute and fluffy roo out of my teeth, yum yum


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## WombleHerp (Mar 14, 2008)

lol toads... they are cute in thier own way, and yet oh so evil. it is the humans fault they are here, so lets not get on the high horse of 'they all should get no sympathy, they all should die painfully' etc. i know as of many others here what they do to native fauna, and sure, it isnt nice. but its what they do! on the other hand i do believe they should be eradicated from Australia, because it is not where they belong. the two obvious methods used here are freezing and a quick blunt 'knock' to the head.. i believe that either would be fine, so long as the blunt whack to the head is done properly, and the freezing is 'eased off' by placing them in the fridge first to get them to sleep. JMO being kind in all ways possible is the best thing to do regardless of what is happening (eg the killing of native fauna because of an introduced species, not its fault its here!)



Nat


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## Kathryn_ (Mar 15, 2008)

The fact that other animals die a painful death due to cane toads isn't something they can be held personally responsible for, however, the level of intelligence we have carries with it responsibility. If you sleep well at night, then congratulations - being involved in some kind of bitter vendetta against an species for doing what comes naturally to them is not an acceptable moral defense in my book, certainly not when they can very easily be killed humanely - freezing an ectothermic animal is about as humane as you can get without sedatives, certainly significantly more humane than poison or blunt force. Throw a dog in front of a truck and try to tell me blunt force is not a hideous death.


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## Miss_Croft (Mar 15, 2008)

Kathryn, 
I agree with you – killing at Cane Toad should be humane as possible. Cooling and then freezing an ectothermic (cold blooded) animal (Cane Toad) is the most humane method of euthanizing. 

The Queensland EPA suggests use of Dettol to short out the nerves system to kill cane toads. It is suggested as non-preferred method of killing as it takes some time to kill and toad is clearly in pain for that period.

Use of a blunt force trauma is only suggested by WA primary industry after the appropriate training and use of appropriate safety equipment – They also suggest after “stunning” with blunt force trauma the toad should be decapitated. 

Holding cane toads by back legs and hitting against a hard surface, hitting cane toads with golf clubs or other sporting equipment is considered cruel and as such is illegal in all states of Australia. Queensland RSPCA definition of cruel death by blunt force trauma is: having to hit more than once to kill the cane toad.


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## redbellybite (Mar 15, 2008)

I line them up on the road A 4X4 WHEEL kills them instantly and the splat sound you know they cant suck their lungs back in after that ..........cane toads yes are animals but dont belong here same as all ferel animals think of what its doing to our wildlife ,our plantlife is also affected by canes they are almost impossible to kill their tadpoles survive in the millions in a dirty small puddle our native frogs cant compete and the toads eat everthing from frogs to small birds and anything they can get into their gobs ,plus the fact they kill so many reps and mammals even our own domestic animals arent safe i say f##k the toad kill it quick and so be it ....these friggen morons who encourage peeps to keep them by holding races and **** like that should be the ones fined ...as a qlder i dont feel sorry for the toad especially when i find a dead rbb with a toad in its mouth because the poor thing couldnt tell what it was till too late..........death to all cane toads and there is no way i would put them stinking things in my freezer.......ok had my beef .........redbellybite.


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## salebrosus (Mar 15, 2008)

Amen redbellybite!


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## cris (Mar 15, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> Kathryn,
> I agree with you – killing at Cane Toad should be humane as possible. Cooling and then freezing an ectothermic (cold blooded) animal (Cane Toad) is the most humane method of euthanizing.
> 
> The Queensland EPA suggests use of Dettol to short out the nerves system to kill cane toads. It is suggested as non-preferred method of killing as it takes some time to kill and toad is clearly in pain for that period.
> ...




Well you are wrong with your first and last point, freezing is actually a very cruel method of killing many ecotherms. It is currently believed by some that fridging and freezing toads is humane, but detol was once considered humane just as freezing reptiles was once considered humane. I seriously doubt cooling and freezing a toad isnt far more stressful than killing it instantly, say by grabbing its back feet and whacking its head(instant humane death). I personally dont think forcing ecotherms into extremely undesirable temperatures is humane, at least it would have to be extremely stressful and it is believed many ecotherms can also feel their cells explode as they freeze. Is there any good science behind the claim freezing them is humane?


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## hornet (Mar 15, 2008)

salebrosus said:


> Don't start on the cruelty to animals debate, cos we could argue all day about how cruel it is to feed crickets to our herps.



Whats there argue about? Inverts dont feel pain so feeding them live is not cruel in any way shape or form. As from the way to kill toads. Even tho they are a pest everyone hates they should still be humanly euthanised. A good blow to the head is the best way.


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## mcsrx (Mar 15, 2008)

well i say they are pests, and i say kill them any way that pleases you.


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## Miss_Croft (Mar 15, 2008)

Cris – About humane killing of animals - I am going to stick to what I have stated about cane toad euthanatizing. After dealing with many people like the ones in RSPCA (People who say what is cruel) there are two things – what is and what they say is. Stunning a cane toad via blunt force trauma will probably result in instant death (Read most humane) – but that is not the view of organizations like RSPCA. RSPCA and EPA have stated (With press releases) cane toads should not be euthanized via blunt force trauma and they state preferred method of euthanizing is freezing and second method – Dettol (Thus my support for the latter). 

Let’s call it bureaucrats doing what they do best – making laws that hurt the things they are trying to protect.


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## Kathryn_ (Mar 15, 2008)

Hornet: I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but you are simply incorrect. Any animal with a centralised nervous system, including invertebrates, feels pain. It's that simple. 

Cris: "can actually feel their cells explode"? Firstly, cells don't "explode" when frozen - that's why bacteria don't die in your freezer. Secondly, while every cell in any animal's body is linked to a nerve, to imply that they each deliver a painful sensation when they're damaged is just ridiculous - do you feel your skin cells dying? Cells aren't traumatised by freezing, they just slow down and stop in exactly the same way an entire ectothermic organism does, this is just fact. They go to sleep the same way a hibernating animal does - the cold slows their processes down, they lose consciousness and they die. There simply isn't an argument to be had here.


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## nuthn2do (Mar 15, 2008)

Simple, if it's not instant it's cruel


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## thesilverbeast (Mar 16, 2008)

Kathryn_ said:


> Hornet: I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but you are simply incorrect. Any animal with a centralised nervous system, including invertebrates, feels pain. It's that simple.
> 
> Cris: "can actually feel their cells explode"? Firstly, cells don't "explode" when frozen - that's why bacteria don't die in your freezer. Secondly, while every cell in any animal's body is linked to a nerve, to imply that they each deliver a painful sensation when they're damaged is just ridiculous - do you feel your skin cells dying? Cells aren't traumatised by freezing, they just slow down and stop in exactly the same way an entire ectothermic organism does, this is just fact. They go to sleep the same way a hibernating animal does - the cold slows their processes down, they lose consciousness and they die. There simply isn't an argument to be had here.




except for the fact that people who get hypothermia to the point where they almost die say its excruciating. Yes i know its mammals and not ectothermic amphibians but can you prove with literature these claims that you are making? (im not saying you are wrong, just curious if you have recourses available to you that you are getting info from)


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## Kathryn_ (Mar 17, 2008)

I've actually just sold my zoology text, so I'll have to get into the library at uni tomorrow to find you something referenced. Basically, endotherms' bodies fight extreme external temperatures as hard as they can to maintain a consistent internal temp, in our case 38*C. Ectotherms' like herps just "go with it", which is why you put sick axoltyls, and I'd imagine sick frogs, in the fridge - it induces a kind of hibernationy, coma-like state as all their functions slow down. I've done this with a bunch of my axoltyls over the years and it's never seemed to bother them, they just go to sleep and wake up again when you take them out. I've euthanised fish like this when necessary as well, and once again, when you check on them regularly you see that they just go to sleep - there's no evidence of any distress. 

As I said, I'll find you something in a text tomorrow.


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## nuthn2do (Mar 17, 2008)

Kathryn_ said:


> I've actually just sold my zoology text, so I'll have to get into the library at uni tomorrow to find you something referenced. Basically, endotherms' bodies fight extreme external temperatures as hard as they can to maintain a consistent internal temp, in our case 38*C. Ectotherms' like herps just "go with it", which is why you put sick axoltyls, and I'd imagine sick frogs, in the fridge - it induces a kind of hibernationy, coma-like state as all their functions slow down. I've done this with a bunch of my axoltyls over the years and it's never seemed to bother them, they just go to sleep and wake up again when you take them out. I've euthanised fish like this when necessary as well, and once again, when you check on them regularly you see that they just go to sleep - there's no evidence of any distress.
> 
> As I said, I'll find you something in a text tomorrow.


http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf, pretty much the world wide standard.


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