# Tiny frog id



## princessparrot (Nov 16, 2013)

Ok so I'm not usually one that asks for identification but I found this little guy last night in our carport. I looked in all of my books but can't find him. I'm down in batemans bay.


Sorry it wont let me add pics. I'll try again later Hey was tiny(about 1.5cm) and black

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View attachment 300631
View attachment 300632


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 16, 2013)

The description you have provided limits what it might be. I would suggest that Bibron's Toadlet (_Pseudophryne bibroni_) is the mostly candidate. However, given the highly variable markings of the Eastern Common Froglet (_Crinia signifera_) it is still a possibility. 

There two other small dark frog but they have brighter patches on one rbth limbs - Smooth Toadlet (_Uperoleia laevigata_) and Tyler's Toadlet (_Uperoleia tyleri_).

Did you notice whether it hopped or walked? Pseudophryne species typically walk instead of hopping.

Blue


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## princessparrot (Nov 16, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> The description you have provided limits what it might be. I would suggest that Bibron's Toadlet (_Pseudophryne bibroni_) is the mostly candidate. However, given the highly variable markings of the Eastern Common Froglet (_Crinia signifera_) it is still a possibility.
> 
> There two other small dark frog but they have brighter patches on one rbth limbs - Smooth Toadlet (_Uperoleia laevigata_) and Tyler's Toadlet (_Uperoleia tyleri_).
> 
> ...


Did my pics work? It had a kind of bumpy back and mostly crawled then hopped. It was really dark black and I think it may have had some yellow on its thighs. Is it to small to possibly be a Denys toadlet.View attachment 300650


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## richoman_3 (Nov 16, 2013)

pseudophryne's tend to crawl them hop. It could be a common froglet, yet again could be a juvenile of any species of limnodastynes


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Based on the photos and the behaviour I would say almost 100% that it is Bibron’s Toadlet. It is outside the range of Dendy’s Toadlet. The snout on Crinia is sharper than Pseudophyrne. The bulbous eyes extending well beyond the margin of the head and closer to the end of the snout exclude Limnodynastes as a possibility. If you were to turn the frog over, it would have a white belly mottled with black markings.

Blue

EDIT: The above in probably incorrect.


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## richoman_3 (Nov 17, 2013)

It is a Crinia signifera....


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## eipper (Nov 17, 2013)

from that shot it coulds be a number including a juv Uperoleia, Crinia signifera. Body shape is wrong for a Pseudophyrne


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## froggyboy86 (Nov 17, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Based on the photos and the behaviour I would say almost 100% that it is Bibron’s Toadlet. It is outside the range of Dendy’s Toadlet. The snout on Crinia is sharper than Pseudophyrne. The bulbous eyes extending well beyond the margin of the head and closer to the end of the snout exclude Limnodynastes as a possibility. If you were to turn the frog over, it would have a white belly mottled with black markings.
> 
> Blue



Bateman's Bay is within the range of frogs referable to _Pseudophryne dendyi_ which extends up the south coast of NSW to the Shoalhaven region. 

The granular and variable dorsum and narrow snout would rule out a juvenile _Pseudophryne dendyi/bibroni_. 

I don't think it is a Uperoleia sp. as from what I can make out, there is no triangular markings on the head which I've seen in juvenile _Uperoleia laevigata_ and _Uperoleia tyleri_ which occur around Bateman's Bay. It is most likely a juvenile _Crinia signifera_. Also at this time of the year it is unlikely the _Uperoleia_ would have bred and metamorphed whereas _Crinia_ will breed year-round in that area.


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## eipper (Nov 17, 2013)

I have seen Tyler's without the triangle before. I tend to agree it is most likely a signifera but the pic is just not clear enough


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks for the info on P. dendyi. I was under the misapprehension they only extended to a bit north of Eden (which is where my nephew lives). 

The shape not being typically dumpy of Pseudophyrne I put down to it being only recently morphed but I do admit I am not familiar with their metamorphs. Wrong assumption it would seem. While the colour seems wrong to me I would suggest the age and limit of my field experience here is showing holes. A rough upper surface is definitely more likely Crinia. It would have been interesting to view the ventral surface.

Apologies for my errors.

Blue


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## princessparrot (Nov 17, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Thanks for the info on P. dendyi. I was under the misapprehension they only extended to a bit north of Eden (which is where my nephew lives).
> 
> The shape not being typically dumpy of Pseudophyrne I put down to it being only recently morphed but I do admit I am not familiar with their metamorphs. Wrong assumption it would seem. While the colour seems wrong to me I would suggest the age and limit of my field experience here is showing holes. A rough upper surface is definitely more likely Crinia. It would have been interesting to view the ventral surface.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with your first one. I haven't found any pics of the crinia that look anything like it, but I've found ones of the toadlets that look almost exactly the same..
one I took(It had the yellow) View attachment 300710

View attachment 300711
View attachment 300712
Pics I found(bibrons)

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Bluetongue1 said:


> Thanks for the info on P. dendyi. I was under the misapprehension they only extended to a bit north of Eden (which is where my nephew lives).
> 
> The shape not being typically dumpy of Pseudophyrne I put down to it being only recently morphed but I do admit I am not familiar with their metamorphs. Wrong assumption it would seem. While the colour seems wrong to me I would suggest the age and limit of my field experience here is showing holes. A rough upper surface is definitely more likely Crinia. It would have been interesting to view the ventral surface.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with your first one. I haven't found any pics of the crinia that look anything like it, but I've found ones of the toadlets that look almost exactly the same..
one I took(It had the yellow) View attachment 300710

View attachment 300711
View attachment 300712
Pics I found(bibrons)


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## froggyboy86 (Nov 18, 2013)

It looks like a _Crinia signifera_ to me. The outstretched leg pose is a typical posture of these frogs when threatened or disturbed. The dark frog has raised lyrate ridges over the shoulder and a granular dorsum which isn't something that is found in _Pseudophryne dendyi _or_ Uperoleia tyleri _in my experience. _C. signifera _often has pale orange or yellowish-brown on the upper arms near the axilla.


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## richoman_3 (Nov 18, 2013)

See, youre already brainwashed into thinking thats a psuedophryne! .. i can tell you now thats a crinia signifera. The 2nd hop pic just bout rules out pseudophryne its self lol
crinia signifera vary a HUGE amount (from black, to gold and gold and black.!)
i would post some photos of black ones ive found but theyre so common i dont even bother taking photos of them lol!


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