# Do the regs need to be changed?



## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 6, 2017)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/wat...ghting-for-life-after-being-bitten-by-taipan/

Following this incident in QLD there are comments all over social media saying its all too easy to get a licence to own/keep one of these highly venomous animals.
I myself have considered keeping ven's but having young grand children really makes it a no brainer for me though I was surprised that I can get a licence to keep in Victoria with NO previous experience handling anything venomous, no qualifications required, no course that must be attended, no minimum supervised hours handling, NOTHING. Pay a fee, send off for a licence and next week I could go buy a RBB, Brown, Taipan, Colletts whatever I like.

Is this not totally ridiculous? Do the rules not need to be changed?

Thoughts below. Please keep it sensible, no fighting your corner at the expense of healthy debate.


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## pinefamily (Nov 6, 2017)

Yes it is ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous that the states are all so different.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 6, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Yes it is ridiculous.
> It's also ridiculous that the states are all so different.



I agree and need to add that I don't blame people/keepers/handlers. Its the bureaucrats who create the rules that are the problem but the hobby suffers when incidents like this happen.


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## Magixs (Nov 7, 2017)

I don't see the need for super strict rules on venomous snakes, if someone gets one and doesn't know what they're doing, bad luck for them.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 7, 2017)

Victoria's ridiculous lack of licensing has ruined the turtle scene in that part of the country. So many mongrel turtles being bred by idiots with no idea.


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## Bl69aze (Nov 7, 2017)

I think he’s an idiot.



Here’s another video on the same topic.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 7, 2017)

Bl69aze said:


> I think he’s an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s another video on the same topic.



Why do you think he is an idiot? You have no idea what the circumstances were when he was bitten. There is nothing in that video that makes me think he is an idiot.
In regard to licensing Paul, if it is that easy to get a venomous license in Victoria then things definitely need to be changed. Are you sure what you wrote is definitely the case, not having to do a course or anything of that nature just doesn't sound like it is right.


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## Bl69aze (Nov 7, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> Why do you think he is an idiot? You have no idea what the circumstances were when he was bitten. There is nothing in that video that makes me think he is an idiot.
> In regard to licensing Paul, if it is that easy to get a venomous license in Victoria then things definitely need to be changed. Are you sure what you wrote is definitely the case, not having to do a course or anything of that nature just doesn't sound like it is right.


If you had a taipan, you would sit it’s tub up high with the snake still in it? That seems like a stupid thing to me.

Aswell as the off topic swimming while drinking.

Doesn’t seem like someone who should be in possession of venomous snakes.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 7, 2017)

Where does it say anything about a tub?
So what if he is having a drink in the pool, when you are old enough to drink you will probably do it too, that in no way makes him an idiot or incapable of handling venomous reptiles.


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## MANNING (Nov 7, 2017)

Magixs said:


> I don't see the need for super strict rules on venomous snakes, if someone gets one and doesn't know what they're doing, bad luck for them.



I'm going too disagree with your comment. The need for ruling and regulations is to stop more of this sort of thing happening. Just think, if there was no ruling on keeping highly venomous snakes, how many more keepers there may be with little to no clue as to how to protect themselves or everyone around.

Just because you know what your doing it never guarantees your safety.
Latest example @ronhalling just posted a thread yesterday that he was tagged. I don't know ron but I do know it's not his first time handling a snake on that thread there was several other occasions of people being bitten.
Now think if all these snakes were venomous..


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## Wokka (Nov 7, 2017)

As more and more licences and bureauocratic interference is introduced Australia is running out of staff and money to do the licencing properly. Australia needs to work out what is important to licence, and do that properly rather than just throwing a licence requirement of something and assuming that it is now under control. With the staff they have I would suggest proper elapid licencing is a must and forget all the other reptile licences.


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## Bl69aze (Nov 7, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> Where does it say anything about a tub?
> So what if he is having a drink in the pool, when you are old enough to drink you will probably do it too, that in no way makes him an idiot or incapable of handling venomous reptiles.









Hanging over the edge.

Surely there’s a restriction involving the accessibility having to be locked by a padlock and not using a tub for venomous snakes. I know I’d like to keep my venomous snakes locked up if I had owned any.


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## MANNING (Nov 7, 2017)

Bl69aze said:


> I think he’s an idiot.
> .


I wouldn't say idiot either -

Why? He wasn't alone with the snake,
Hopefully not just coincidence but a rule set for that snake.
Proper first aid was on hand and emergency services where inbound moments later. Hopefully he'll recover
An idiot would have laughed the bite off and met their maker within the hour


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## Scutellatus (Nov 7, 2017)

Bl69aze said:


> Hanging over the edge.
> 
> Surely there’s a restriction involving the accessibility having to be locked by a padlock and not using a tub for venomous snakes. I know I’d like to keep my venomous snakes locked up if I had owned any.


I may be wrong but to me that looks like file footage, not footage from this particular incident. Possibly even shot in a vet with the looks of what is in the background.


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## Bl69aze (Nov 7, 2017)

So I’ve done some looking and it looks like he does know what he is doing and is intact not an idiot

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY_U35nDthsXc1C-jLko6kA

This is his YouTube channel


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## RoryBreaker (Nov 7, 2017)

Its all part of learning.

The best way to get experience is to keep something. Most people have close calls and work out whats the best way to do things. It also helps to have a wise guru to mentor you along your journey. A few get unlucky and get tagged, just the way life is. As long as what you are keeping is secure, ie locked room, its nobody else's business what you get up to in your own home.

I find it a little amusing reading the thoughts and views of reptile keepers who haven't ventured down the venomous path.

Myself, I have 2 young children now and have shelved all my snake keeping activities for awhile. But I do still excited playing around with the vens like I used to keep when visiting friends collections.

The very few hospitalizations caused by keeping snakes in aus and their cost per capita to the health budget is buggerall when compared to other hobbies like horse riding or trail bike riding. A bit of perspective is helpful before screaming for more hurdles to licencing herps.


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## pythoninfinite (Nov 7, 2017)

Keeping a large example of one of the world's quickest and deadliest snakes in a tub with 15cm high sides and no (safe) access without taking the lid off is, frankly, quite stupid if that's how it was housed. (I'm not attributing the Channel 7 file photo to this keeper - it may have come from anywhere...)



Magixs said:


> I don't see the need for super strict rules on venomous snakes, if someone gets one and doesn't know what they're doing, bad luck for them.



I'm sure you would be fine with a child or a neighbour or some other uninvolved person, or their pet being bitten by an escaped, highly venomous snake. "Doesn't know what they're doing" may have far wider consequences than simply for the unskilled keeper.

Jamie


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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 7, 2017)

Magixs said:


> I don't see the need for super strict rules on venomous snakes, if someone gets one and doesn't know what they're doing, bad luck for them.



Thats a highly irresponsible attitude to take in my opinion. How about no one needs a licence/practice/test before taking to the roads in a car. Same result but also 'bad luck' as you call it to innocents.


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## Nero Egernia (Nov 7, 2017)

The fact that bureaucrats plan and devise the rules and regulations of reptile keeping is a joke. Especially seeing that most, if not all, have little to no interest or experience in reptile keeping.

I don't think adding more regulations is going to help. I agree with RB, only experience can prepare you. Even the best, most experienced of us will sometimes have an accident, and no amount of restrictive regulations is going to stop that. You can put in as many hoops as you like to dissuade the idiots from acquiring potentially dangerous animals but they'll still slip through. All these regulations will do will be to serve as a waste of manpower and a hindrance to those who are willing to do the right thing. Look at Western Australia for example. The hoops we have to jump through to acquire a cat 5 licence is ridiculous. We need shire approval, we need references from cat 5 reptile keepers/dealers, and we need at least one year's experience keeping a cat 4 animal without it dying. Tell me, do you think keeping a Black Headed Python is going to prepare you for keeping a Dugite? Do you think keeping a Pygmy Python is going to prepare you for keeping a Heath Monitor? No bloody way. Quite frankly, in no way it's the shire's business what I keep on my property. They don't need to know what I feed them, how often and where I get their food from. They don't need to know how many reptiles I wish to keep, when and how I pick up their feces, nor do they need to know why I even want to keep them! Yes! The shire do ask you these questions, assuming they even want to give you approval. The only thing they need to know about is my ability to keep them locked away and secure in their enclosures. And what of acquiring a reference from a cat 5 keeper/dealer? A somewhat difficult task for someone to do when there's not many of them around to begin with. Also a difficult thing to do for someone who lives in rural areas, tends to keep to them self and doesn't really mingle with people that often.

Despite all that, idiots still get through. I don't know if anyone remembers my emaciated Black Headed Monitors. They came from a cat 5 reptile keeper. I'm almost certain the lizards would have died if they had kept them any longer. Good thing they had the sense to cut their losses and sell the lizards off before they completely lost out on making a profit.

I agree that acquiring venomous snakes should not be as easy as it appears to be over in the Eastern states. But don't be so eager to hand over your freedoms to the bureaucrats. You just might end up living in WA (not literally of course). Fools will still get what they want, regardless of the regulations that are put in place.


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## bluedragon (Nov 7, 2017)

i go with every one else just keep the rules the same and people should stop trying bad luck if he got bitten we all make mistakes and he was rely experienced to but yea bad luck any way


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 7, 2017)

The whole licensing system is run by a bunch of over educated tossers. Well vic is anyway, the system makes no sense and has something like a 10 year wait before new species will be considered to even be thought about. I have told them on more than one occasion that there whole licensing system is stupid. I can keep a salt water croc/ taipans/ death adders/ tigers and almost any venomous snake i want, i can keep indicus which live in the most northern part of the country. I know of people that have been given exotic licenses to keep illegal black market imports, but we can't keep Rosenbergs which are found in vic anyway. I was taken to court because i had an empty water bowl in a beardie enclosure during winter brumation. While waiting to go into court i was speaking to the wildlife officer representing the department against me. And asked y we can't keep a perentie but are allowed to keep a salt water croc. I was told perenties are to big and y would i want to keep one. I rest my case.
U can fill an empty glass u can't fill a empty head.

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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 7, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I agree that acquiring venomous snakes should not be as easy as it appears to be over in the Eastern states. But don't be so eager to hand over your freedoms to the bureaucrats. You just might end up living in WA (not literally of course). Fools will still get what they want, regardless of the regulations that are put in place





RoryBreaker said:


> Its all part of learning.
> The best way to get experience is to keep something. Most people have close calls and work out whats the best way to do things. It also helps to have a wise guru to mentor you along your journey. A few get unlucky and get tagged, just the way life is. As long as what you are keeping is secure, ie locked room, its nobody else's business what you get up to in your own home.



I agree with you both but not entirely. 
We don't want the system over regulated but there must be sensible controls in place. While I'm in no way suggesting that the incident at the top of this thread is related to poor behavior or a lack of knowledge we all know one or two 'bloody fools' out there that see the owning of such a highly dangerous animal as an extension to their manhood. Do we really want the risks associated with some potentially dangerous animals in the hands of fools because we are as under-regulated as we appear to be in some states?

RoryBreaker. It is all part of learning and we all experience close calls in everything we learn, driving and our day to day jobs would be a couple of good examples. BUT.....How do we learn? Its about experience gained from within a controlled environment, we learn to drive with a professional instructor, when the instructor believes we are ready to be let loose we are tested to a standard before being allowed to drive a missile on the roads. But there are still some who get it wrong, make mistakes and get themselves or others killed. I work in a particularly dangerous industry and new starters are subject to 2-3 months of intense training before they are allowed to commence doing even routine tasks unsupervised.
Australia has some of the most ludicrous work place controls of the western world where we protect everyone from every possible hazard...workers often dont need to think about any controls or the use of common sense any more because safety regulations take care of everything. 

That same person who is not allowed to think for themselves at work and needs to be tested before they can drive to the shops is allowed to go buy a King Brown a week after he sends off his licence fee in Victoria. This is totally crazy and needs some form of control, training and proficiency.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 8, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> The whole licensing system is run by a bunch of over educated tossers. Well vic is anyway, the system makes no sense and has something like a 10 year wait before new species will be considered to even be thought about. I have told them on more than one occasion that there whole licensing system is stupid. I can keep a salt water croc/ taipans/ death adders/ tigers and almost any venomous snake i want, i can keep indicus which live in the most northern part of the country. I know of people that have been given exotic licenses to keep illegal black market imports, but we can't keep Rosenbergs which are found in vic anyway. I was taken to court because i had an empty water bowl in a beardie enclosure during winter brumation. While waiting to go into court i was speaking to the wildlife officer representing the department against me. And asked y we can't keep a perentie but are allowed to keep a salt water croc. I was told perenties are to big and y would i want to keep one. I rest my case.
> U can fill an empty glass u can't fill a empty head.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


How did they find out you had an empty water bowl?


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> How did they find out you had an empty water bowl?


They did a surprise inspection when i wasn't home. 

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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 8, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> They did a surprise inspection when i wasn't home.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


They just let themselves in?


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Aussiepride83 said:


> They just let themselves in?


No my missus let them in

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## Imported_tuatara (Nov 8, 2017)

wait, just heard he died...is it true???


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## danyjv (Nov 8, 2017)

Imported_tuatara said:


> wait, just heard he died...is it true???



Looked on the net and news they didn’t mention it . Poor bugger hope he comes good . Hate to imagine what he and he’s parents are going through .. 


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 8, 2017)

Imported_tuatara said:


> wait, just heard he died...is it true???


No news of that nature yet.



Sheldoncooper said:


> No my missus let them in
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Ah Yep, you know she can turn them away if you're not home... if she's not the licence holder, she's within her rights to tell them to come back another time.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 8, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> . I was taken to court because i had an empty water bowl in a beardie enclosure during winter brumation.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Are the mexican boofocrats really that anal ? I have water bowls in all my dragon enclosures ( I know beardies don't understand standing water) but they do like a soak on a hot day and I have taught 1 of my pygmies to drink


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Ah Yep, you know she can turn them away if you're not home... if she's not the licence holder, she's within her rights to tell them to come back another time.


I am now mate but at the time no i wasn't. As far as i was concerned there was no real issues so i didn't have a problem with it.
I have learnt since then tho, this is a hobby we all love, and to be honest i have had a few inspections with them and every time its like an interrogation and it takes the fun out of the hobby. I think it has something to do with the people I've dealt with, however if someone has advertised something and i want it I'll get it. I don't know everyone's history in this hobby, if i buy something off someone they have there doubts about then it seems like your guilty by ascotiation. 

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## Nero Egernia (Nov 8, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I agree with you both but not entirely.
> We don't want the system over regulated but there must be sensible controls in place. While I'm in no way suggesting that the incident at the top of this thread is related to poor behavior or a lack of knowledge we all know one or two 'bloody fools' out there that see the owning of such a highly dangerous animal as an extension to their manhood. Do we really want the risks associated with some potentially dangerous animals in the hands of fools because we are as under-regulated as we appear to be in some states?



I very much doubt the bureaucrats are going to install sensible controls, but I do agree that they're needed. I'm not familiar with Eastern states regulations. Is there no advanced or the equivalent licence for venomous snakes?


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## Scutellatus (Nov 8, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I'm not familiar with Eastern states regulations. Is there no advanced or the equivalent licence for venomous snakes?


In Queensland there is.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 8, 2017)

In NSW you have to do a 1st aid and resuscitation course and have a dedicated locked snake proof room and appropriate cages and signs.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 8, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> Is there no advanced or the equivalent licence for venomous snakes?



Yes there is an advanced licence requirement in Victoria for ven's and indeed some pythons. Though the only thing that is required to upgrade to an advanced licence is extra money for the increased licence fee. 
That for me is asking for trouble.


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I very much doubt the bureaucrats are going to install sensible controls, but I do agree that they're needed. I'm not familiar with Eastern states regulations. Is there no advanced or the equivalent licence for venomous snakes?


If your under 18 u need a letter from your mum if u want to keep a taipan basically. U need a letter of competency basically saying u can handle it and that'll do it.

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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> In NSW you have to do a 1st aid and resuscitation course and have a dedicated locked snake proof room and appropriate cages and signs.


A locked room is a requirement in vic too.

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## Yellowtail (Nov 8, 2017)

I grew up in an era a long time ago when there was no regulation, if you wanted a snake you went bush and caught one, (most people killed snakes on sight) I had a collection of elapids while I was still in primary school. The point is I was a dedicated reptile nut, read every book available 6 times, talked to other reptile nuts and was very careful and never bitten. This was before antivenin, the recommended treatment for snake bite was to attack the site with a razor blade and suck the venom out, no one had ever survived a taipan bite and survivors of others generally had permanent health problems.
Nowdays you have macho types wanting to show off "mine is more dangerous than yours" and you must have some control, but that said there are bikies out there with rattlesnakes and cobras.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 8, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> A locked room is a requirement in vic too.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



Yes it is but thats not particularly difficult to achieve in about 15 mins and does little to protect a fool from his own animals.


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Yes it is but thats not particularly difficult to achieve in about 15 mins and does little to protect a fool from his own animals.


I couldn't agree more.
The system doesn't make any sense. 
I love my monitors and there's so many id like to own but can't because vic wont bring them on license. The fact that i can keep taipans/ browns and salt water crocs but can't keep certain monitors is frustrating. We need a national licensing system.

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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 8, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> The system doesn't make any sense.
> I love my monitors and there's so many id like to own but can't because vic wont bring them on license. The fact that i can keep taipans/ browns and salt water crocs but can't keep certain monitors is frustrating. We need a national licensing system.



Agree 100%. I find myself in the exact same position, my dream monitor I'm not allowed but as you say I can keep a salty.......how crazy is that.


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## Sheldoncooper (Nov 8, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Agree 100%. I find myself in the exact same position, my dream monitor I'm not allowed but as you say I can keep a salty.......how crazy is that.


I believe we still have a few years to go before they revise the species list again.
So i will just continue to bitch and moan for a little longer and get nowhere

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## Scutellatus (Nov 9, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I grew up in an era a long time ago when there was no regulation, if you wanted a snake you went bush and caught one, (most people killed snakes on sight) I had a collection of elapids while I was still in primary school. The point is I was a dedicated reptile nut, read every book available 6 times, talked to other reptile nuts and was very careful and never bitten. This was before antivenin, the recommended treatment for snake bite was to attack the site with a razor blade and suck the venom out, no one had ever survived a taipan bite and survivors of others generally had permanent health problems.
> Nowdays you have macho types wanting to show off "mine is more dangerous than yours" and you must have some control, but that said there are bikies out there with rattlesnakes and cobras.


If you don't mind me asking Yellowtail, what decade are we talking about here. As early as 1955 there was Taipan antivenene available and saving lives.


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## pythoninfinite (Nov 9, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I grew up in an era a long time ago when there was no regulation, if you wanted a snake you went bush and caught one, (most people killed snakes on sight) I had a collection of elapids while I was still in primary school. The point is I was a dedicated reptile nut, read every book available 6 times, talked to other reptile nuts and was very careful and never bitten. This was before antivenin, the recommended treatment for snake bite was to attack the site with a razor blade and suck the venom out, no one had ever survived a taipan bite and survivors of others generally had permanent health problems.
> Nowdays you have macho types wanting to show off "mine is more dangerous than yours" and you must have some control, but that said there are bikies out there with rattlesnakes and cobras.



That's pretty much my history too Yellowtail. As a kid in WA I had Dugites and Tiger Snakes in tanks in my bedroom, along with a heap of other things. My father wasn't too happy about it, but with the lack of a sense of my own mortality (common in the young) I basically did whatever I liked. I was never bitten by a dangerously venomous snake, and have only ever been bitten once each by a Bardick and a Crowned Snake - the Bardick is still one of my favourite species, and Crowned Snakes are also very beautiful. Neither bite did more than local discomfort for a couple of hours, but I believe that the Bardick is regarded as potentially dangerous these days.

Jamie


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## Yellowtail (Nov 9, 2017)

pythoninfinite said:


> That's pretty much my history too Yellowtail. As a kid in WA I had Dugites and Tiger Snakes in tanks in my bedroom, along with a heap of other things. My father wasn't too happy about it, but with the lack of a sense of my own mortality (common in the young) I basically did whatever I liked. I was never bitten by a dangerously venomous snake, and have only ever been bitten once each by a Bardick and a Crowned Snake - the Bardick is still one of my favourite species, and Crowned Snakes are also very beautiful. Neither bite did more than local discomfort for a couple of hours, but I believe that the Bardick is regarded as potentially dangerous these days.
> 
> Jamie


I lived in Inglewood when it was an outer suburb, my parents had a nursery in the bush at Morley Park as it was then, most of the local snakes were Dugites and I used to ride my bike to places to get Tigers, even get the ferry to Garden island and Rotnest and come back with bags of reptiles. Talked my parents into caravan holidays to places like Mt Magnet and Carnarvon so I could hunt reptiles, I also had a Bardick, great snake, you don't hear much about them now, even had Pebble Dragons. I had a wild life show at the school fete and borrowed some animals from Harry Butler including an albino Dugite, he tried to convince my parents I was not mad. Our back yard was made reptile proof and crawling with Bob Tails and Blueys and I had pit like outdoor enclosures for some of my snakes, used to climb in and walk around amongst them, others in tanks heated by light globes. Never had hooks, just free handled everything, worked on the philosophy that if the animal did not feel threatened it would not be aggressive but some Dugites were just vicious and dangerous to handle.



Scutellatus said:


> If you don't mind me asking Yellowtail, what decade are we talking about here. As early as 1955 there was Taipan antivenene available and saving lives.



1950's, I'm 74 now, all the books I read then were pre Taipan antivenene and it wasn't readily available till after 1955. Perth did not have tv then and any information I had re Queensland came from an uncle in Brisbane.


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## GBWhite (Nov 9, 2017)

Seems how it was back in the day Yellowtail and Jamie. Only difference was that I grew up in Sydney.

Pic of the first lizard pit that I built with a mate in Belmore around the late 60's




This was a trip to north west NSW, central and south east Qld in early 1970's (72 I think) with Steve Wilson (standing) and another mate Keith Martin (Above pit was built at his place). Steve caught his first carpet on this trip (and that was a story in itself...lol)



Pretty sure this pic was taken at Lightning Ridge.


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## Rob (Nov 9, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I'm 74 now



My hat goes off to you Sir for still getting amongst it!


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## Yellowtail (Nov 9, 2017)

Rob said:


> My hat goes off to you Sir for still getting amongst it!



They reckon that when you get old you try to relive your childhood and i'm still fit and well.


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## Nero Egernia (Nov 9, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> The system doesn't make any sense.
> I love my monitors and there's so many id like to own but can't because vic wont bring them on license. The fact that i can keep taipans/ browns and salt water crocs but can't keep certain monitors is frustrating. We need a national licensing system.





Pauls_Pythons said:


> Agree 100%. I find myself in the exact same position, my dream monitor I'm not allowed but as you say I can keep a salty.......how crazy is that.



Coming from WA it's incredibly frustrating that we can only keep a small fraction of our native reptiles. Particularly when species that are endemic only to Western Australia are being kept and bred by the hundreds in the Eastern states, heck, even overseas! 

I remember rescuing a baby Dugite from the cat once. Picked it up by its tail and placed it in a glass tank. Unfortunately my parents wouldn't let me keep it. Didn't try catching one again as it was always a firm "no". They tolerated my keeping Bobtails, Blue-tongues, geckos, frogs, and other skinks however. Generally kept the larger species in a water trough outside. Although whenever I caught a large goanna that wasn't allowed to be kept either. Probably for the best, I suppose. There wasn't a water trough large enough for one anyway. If it was a juvenile, it may have been different. But never once saw a juvenile, besides one that we accidentally chopped up when chainsawing wood. Poor thing.


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## Snapped (Nov 9, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I lived in Inglewood when it was an outer suburb, my parents had a nursery in the bush at Morley Park as it was then, most of the local snakes were Dugites and I used to ride my bike to places to get Tigers, even get the ferry to Garden island and Rotnest and come back with bags of reptiles. Talked my parents into caravan holidays to places like Mt Magnet and Carnarvon so I could hunt reptiles, I also had a Bardick, great snake, you don't hear much about them now, even had Pebble Dragons. I had a wild life show at the school fete and borrowed some animals from Harry Butler including an albino Dugite, he tried to convince my parents I was not mad. Our back yard was made reptile proof and crawling with Bob Tails and Blueys and I had pit like outdoor enclosures for some of my snakes, used to climb in and walk around amongst them, others in tanks heated by light globes. Never had hooks, just free handled everything, worked on the philosophy that if the animal did not feel threatened it would not be aggressive but some Dugites were just vicious and dangerous to handle.
> 
> 
> 
> 1950's, I'm 74 now, all the books I read then were pre Taipan antivenene and it wasn't readily available till after 1955. Perth did not have tv then and any information I had re Queensland came from an uncle in Brisbane.



Geezus Yellowtail, that's a great (if somewhat dangerous) childhood you had, I'm impressed!


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## pythoninfinite (Nov 9, 2017)

Ah those were the days! I'm 69 and remember doing the island things too, collecting Tigers for blood samples on Carnac Island and releasing them a week later, and when just north of Perth, Morley & beyond, was market gardens and bush, long before you got to Wanneroo, lots of Dugites and Tigers. My best mate and I used to go out every weekend on our bikes to look for heaps of corrugated iron and other stuff we could turn over. Flew into Perth a couple of times this year, most recently about 4 weeks ago, and most of the coastal bushland has gone, from Mandurah, up to and beyond Wanneroo and Joondalup - bulldozed for awful housing developments on pure sand. Incredible destruction for increased population when Perth doesn't have the water to sustain its population. And they fine people for keeping Blueys and Bobtails without a licence, but if you go in with a bulldozer and not only kill EVERYTHING, but destroy the habitat as well, there are no penalties and you get rich...

Jamie


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## Yellowtail (Nov 9, 2017)

pythoninfinite said:


> Ah those were the days! I'm 69 and remember doing the island things too, collecting Tigers for blood samples on Carnac Island and releasing them a week later, and when just north of Perth, Morley & beyond, was market gardens and bush, long before you got to Wanneroo, lots of Dugites and Tigers. My best mate and I used to go out every weekend on our bikes to look for heaps of corrugated iron and other stuff we could turn over. Flew into Perth a couple of times this year, most recently about 4 weeks ago, and most of the coastal bushland has gone, from Mandurah, up to and beyond Wanneroo and Joondalup - bulldozed for awful housing developments on pure sand. Incredible destruction for increased population when Perth doesn't have the water to sustain its population. And they fine people for keeping Blueys and Bobtails without a licence, but if you go in with a bulldozer and not only kill EVERYTHING, but destroy the habitat as well, there are no penalties and you get rich...
> 
> Jamie


Couldn't have said it better Jamie, all the bureaucracy and gestapo tactics to prevent a kid keeping an unlicensed lizard.
You could walk down the end of our street and within an hour see a smorgasbord of reptiles and the area beyond Morley where our nursery was (my parents felt guilty bulldozing 4 acres out of their 8 acre block) and Mt Yokine was virgin bush except for a reservoir. I haven't been back there recently but you only have to look on google, the entire coastal plain has been bulldozed and no provision made for wildlife refuges or corridors and they need the desal plant for water. I used to be able to dig down about 5 ft in our backyard to ground water, I wonder what it's like now. The bush at the end of 6th avenue and the golf course used to back onto a big rubbish tip and a pine forest, in those days everything was dumped and just bulldozed to the fringe of the bush and all the sheets of iron etc were prime territory for finding reptiles.


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## longirostris (Nov 9, 2017)

pythoninfinite said:


> Ah those were the days! I'm 69 and remember doing the island things too, collecting Tigers for blood samples on Carnac Island and releasing them a week later, and when just north of Perth, Morley & beyond, was market gardens and bush, long before you got to Wanneroo, lots of Dugites and Tigers. My best mate and I used to go out every weekend on our bikes to look for heaps of corrugated iron and other stuff we could turn over. Flew into Perth a couple of times this year, most recently about 4 weeks ago, and most of the coastal bushland has gone, from Mandurah, up to and beyond Wanneroo and Joondalup - bulldozed for awful housing developments on pure sand. Incredible destruction for increased population when Perth doesn't have the water to sustain its population. And they fine people for keeping Blueys and Bobtails without a licence, but if you go in with a bulldozer and not only kill EVERYTHING, but destroy the habitat as well, there are no penalties and you get rich...
> 
> Jamie



I Just got back from Perth late yesterday evening having spent a week there with my wife and teenage son who is a mad keen surfer. So the obligatory trip to Margaret River and pretty much as many spots in between as time would allow. It's been 15 years since I was down at Margaret River and for that matter any where south of pretty much the CBD. During the surfing odyssey I managed to sneak one day for myself so I took a drive up to Cervantes to have a look at the Pinnacles desert. It was one of those places that I have always wanted to visit having seen it on a late 60's TV show called Nature Walkabout that was hosted by a guy by the name of Serventy, (I think his first name was Vince or Vic), who I believe was a Western Australian naturalist. This guy was way before the Leyland brothers and pretty much doing the same stuff except his focus was on wildlife and reptiles very heavily. Anyway as you say Jamie, the changes to the landscapes both North and south of Perth was for me quite breath taking. For a city of less than 1.5 million people it has an incredible urban sprawl, I was quite surprised at how much it had changed. The other thing I couldn't help but notice picking up on your comment regarding the Blueys and Bobtails was the amount of reptile roadkill that I saw when you get off the main highways particularly going south. The road kill of reptiles on the Indian Ocean road south of Lancelin and all the way up to Cervantes was obvious as well, but when you took a side road like the road to the Pinnacles desert the amount of dead Bobtails was amazing. I did manage to see several that were alive as well, as they are so slow moving crossing the road. I think the thing for me that is disappointing is that they are very obvious when crossing a road and yet the number of them that were killed on quiet side roads particularly down around Margaret River and pretty much all the way up that section of coast, (Gracetown, Yallingup etc) lead me to conclude that people were deliberately targeting them when they saw them on the road, (as I say quiet residential streets in among the sand dunes around Prevelly, Main Beach Surfers Point, and other equally quiet locations), rather then just slowing or even stopping as I did several times and letting them cross the road in peace. The really staggering thing about all of this is the Wildlife authorities ridiculous attitude when it comes to people wanting to keep and even collect these animals. I have no doubt that the Bobtails at least would be substantially better off if people actually picked them up and took them home as pets rather then deliberately squash them on the road and yet if someone does that they face fines and all sorts of horrendous treatment from the regulatory authorities, meanwhile the carnage on the roads goes on unabated and nobody (read regulatory authorities) seems to care. 

By the way whilst we are all coming clean about our ages I am a whipper snipper, I'll be 60 next month and like you guys used to keep tigers, whip snakes, red belly's and other nasty little critters that 10 year olds should not and usually are not allowed to keep. I didn't get bitten either not for want of trying though by most of my captives. I guess though I minimised my chances of becoming a snakebite statistic by restricting my keeping to dragon lizards 30 odd years ago. About the worst that can happy with these things is a bit of blood if a frilly or a water dragon latches on to you. 

Mark Hawker


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 9, 2017)

Just loving these stories from the other older guys,I am 60 and spent all my childhood in the bush,catching dragons,bluies,eels ,turtles,frogs, etc.No elapids though.Don't know if that makes me boring or lucky,but I have a similar childhood.


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## Nero Egernia (Nov 10, 2017)

pythoninfinite said:


> Flew into Perth a couple of times this year, most recently about 4 weeks ago, and most of the coastal bushland has gone, from Mandurah, up to and beyond Wanneroo and Joondalup - bulldozed for awful housing developments on pure sand. Incredible destruction for increased population when Perth doesn't have the water to sustain its population. And they fine people for keeping Blueys and Bobtails without a licence, but if you go in with a bulldozer and not only kill EVERYTHING, but destroy the habitat as well, there are no penalties and you get rich...





Yellowtail said:


> You could walk down the end of our street and within an hour see a smorgasbord of reptiles and the area beyond Morley where our nursery was (my parents felt guilty bulldozing 4 acres out of their 8 acre block) and Mt Yokine was virgin bush except for a reservoir. I haven't been back there recently but you only have to look on google, the entire coastal plain has been bulldozed and no provision made for wildlife refuges or corridors and they need the desal plant for water. I used to be able to dig down about 5 ft in our backyard to ground water, I wonder what it's like now. The bush at the end of 6th avenue and the golf course used to back onto a big rubbish tip and a pine forest, in those days everything was dumped and just bulldozed to the fringe of the bush and all the sheets of iron etc were prime territory for finding reptiles.





longirostris said:


> The really staggering thing about all of this is the Wildlife authorities ridiculous attitude when it comes to people wanting to keep and even collect these animals. I have no doubt that the Bobtails at least would be substantially better off if people actually picked them up and took them home as pets rather then deliberately squash them on the road and yet if someone does that they face fines and all sorts of horrendous treatment from the regulatory authorities, meanwhile the carnage on the roads goes on unabated and nobody (read regulatory authorities) seems to care.



Couldn't agree more. As a keen enthusiast of native plants I've come to appreciate the fragility of the different plant communities. Once any type of habitat has been bulldozed to oblivion it would be near impossible to regenerate it to it's former glory. They take hundreds of years to shape and form. Some species take many years to mature, others need to grow and die, fall to the ground and rot, be consumed by termites to create hollows, decay, form a layer of leaf litter, keep salinity at bay, catch fire, bloom, become a host, fend off soil erosion etc. All of which takes _time_. Re-vegetation would require many, many years, assuming one's even able to successfully imitate the placement and diversity of the species lost. New species and varieties are still being discovered every year. Not only that, once cleared, invasive weeds and other exotic plants quickly take hold, choking out any natives that had begun to regrow, if they ever did. I've sometimes seen the department attempting to re-vegetate cleared road verges. Sometimes they don't even use species that are endemic to that area, which I find baffling. They could never recreate the diversity. Sometimes it appears as if they don't even try. I hate seeing reserves becoming a little smaller each year because the government feels as though it's needed for whatever reason, when it's most likely not. Why not leave the bush be, so you don't need to make a half-hearted attempt at re-vegetating it?

The departments prosecute the odd person taking a wild lizard or snake to keep as a pet. But what do they do to the many that actively and purposely kill reptiles with a shovel or car to bloat their already inflated egos? Nothing. I thought our reptiles are supposed to be protected? How did this ridiculous system ever come to be?


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Jan 27, 2018)

I was only thinking about this bloke this morning and haven't yet heard any updates on his progress so I went for a quick look and am glad to see he's recovered and is doing well. 

For anyone else who was following Nathan's story. 

*Nathan Chetcuti, 20, was cleaning the enclosure of his venomous reptile when the snake bit him. He was rushed to the hospital where he spent some time in a coma due to the effects of the venom on his body. Chetcuti told Nine.com.au that he is responsible for getting bit. He was cleaning the enclosures of his reptiles and was also feeding some of them, a practice that he never does, when he got bit.*

*“He (Fang) could smell the rodents in the air and he just kind of went into his feeding frenzy,” Chetcuti said. “I readjusted my hand on the hook, and I wasn’t paying full attention to him and he spun around and got me. He wasn’t aggressive but he was just looking for his food really.”

He remained calm while being transported to the hospital and credits that demeanour for helping him to live.

“I managed to keep myself very calm in the situation and that probably gave me a lot more time to play with. But as for how close I was to not being here anymore it was very close,” Chetcuti said.

Chetcuti has been a reptile lover since he was five years old, when he acquired his first snake. His collection has since grown to more than 50 reptiles, including several venomous species.

After he fully recovers, Chetcuti said he wants to get back into the swing of things. “I’m more keen to get back into (snake handling) than I ever was, just to show that the passion is still there,” he told Nine.com.au. “Conservation is still the main thing on my mind and I want people to try and love and enjoy these animals as much as I do.”*

http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Aussie-Reptile-Lover-Bitten-By-Inland-Taipan-Snake-Recovers/


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## Bl69aze (Jan 27, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> I was only thinking about this bloke this morning and haven't yet heard any updates on his progress so I went for a quick look and am glad to see he's recovered and is doing well.
> 
> For anyone else who was following Nathan's story.
> 
> ...



He has a YouTube channel



It appears he’s deleted all his old stuff and only has a new recent vid


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## cement (Jan 27, 2018)

Simple rookie mistake, with an animal that lives in a world of smell.
If your keeping and dealing with these types of critters, it's a good thing to be able to pre-empt what may happen if you do something before you do it, as well as asking yourself or checking in with yourself as to how you are feeling at the time. By this , I mean, is it worth going in and cleaning a cage if your suffering a hangover, or your not quite firing on all cylinders, or can it wait till tomorrow or later in the day when you can fully focus. Or if my sunnies fall off the top of my head just as I'm moving in on a snake, could that cause a reaction I don't want?
It's great to see him recovered and back into his passion, shame he had to go through that, I'm sure he'll be a better you tube teacher for it though.


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## Scutellatus (Jan 27, 2018)

It was actually a snake in an enclosure next to (above I believe) the one he had open that struck at the glass and caused a momentary distraction which allowed him to be bitten. It is just lucky his friend was there which made it possible for him to remain calmer than if he was by himself.


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## Bl69aze (Jan 27, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> It was actually a snake in an enclosure next to (above I believe) the one he had open that struck at the glass and caused a momentary distraction which allowed him to be bitten. It is just lucky his friend was there which made it possible for him to remain calmer than if he was by himself.


I don’t know where u got any of that info, but he said on one of his deleted vids he was putting it back in his enclosure clean and it struck his arm.

It was also his dad watching him, as he runs a 2 person practice when he works his venomous snakes


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## Scutellatus (Jan 27, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> I don’t know where u got any of that info, but he said on one of his deleted vids he was putting it back in his enclosure clean and it struck his arm.
> 
> It was also his dad watching him, as he runs a 2 person practice when he works his venomous snakes


I will try to find the interview. In this interview he definitely stated what I have written above.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 27, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> In regard to licensing Paul, if it is that easy to get a venomous license in Victoria then things definitely need to be changed. Are you sure what you wrote is definitely the case, not having to do a course or anything of that nature just doesn't sound like it is right.



Sorry mate I missed this comment. Yes I am sure. The regs were amended in 2016 to ensure that under 18's had some evidence of competency such as a handlers course but for over 18's to upgrade from basic to advanced licence you just pay the difference. That advanced licence allows the holder to keep ven's. Below extract from the licence application.

_*Licence Holders under 18 years of age seeking an Advanced Wildlife Licence for the purposes of keeping venomous snakes must include documentary evidence of competency in the safe-handling of venomous snakes and the signature of their parent or guardian. Contact the DELWP Customer Service Centre on 136 186 for details.*_


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## Scutellatus (Jan 27, 2018)

It isn't coming up on my phone now for some reason. Whether it is because the story wasn't correct and has been removed or something else I am not sure.

I seriously doubt someone with his experience would be handling venomous while feeding, but it could be the case.
He also said that he usually does everything with his Dad but this time he had a friend there and that his Dad met them at the hospital.

I'll keep searching, hopefully I can find it.


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## cement (Jan 28, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> It was actually a snake in an enclosure next to (above I believe) the one he had open that struck at the glass and caused a momentary distraction which allowed him to be bitten. It is just lucky his friend was there which made it possible for him to remain calmer than if he was by himself.



maybe you need to read the story again.
*“He (Fang) could smell the rodents in the air and he just kind of went into his feeding frenzy,” Chetcuti said. “I readjusted my hand on the hook, and I wasn’t paying full attention to him and he spun around and got me. He wasn’t aggressive but he was just looking for his food really.”*
The mistake was prepping for feeding (ie rats thawing in the same room, or somewhere the snake could smell food) while cleaning and handling. 
We all make mistakes though, and he did the right thing as far as having safety protocol in place for such an event.


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## Scutellatus (Jan 28, 2018)

cement said:


> maybe you need to read the story again.
> *“He (Fang) could smell the rodents in the air and he just kind of went into his feeding frenzy,” Chetcuti said. “I readjusted my hand on the hook, and I wasn’t paying full attention to him and he spun around and got me. He wasn’t aggressive but he was just looking for his food really.”*
> The mistake was prepping for feeding (ie rats thawing in the same room, or somewhere the snake could smell food) while cleaning and handling.
> We all make mistakes though, and he did the right thing as far as having safety protocol in place for such an event.


Maybe you need to read what I have written before commenting. I read what I have written somewhere and it wasn't a shock and awe story written the day after the bite, this was a week or two after the event. As I said I will try to find the story, I i haven't had much luck yet, but will keep trying.
Remember we are talking about the media here who can be full of rubbish for effect when writing a story, the same media that were calling him an idiot because of videos he had on his YouTube.
[doublepost=1517088139,1517087164][/doublepost]Here is part of it:
Luckily his best friend was with him at the time and called an ambulance.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2...bitten-by-deadly-pet-taipan-plans-to-keep-him

I will keep searching for the rest.

A couple of points I will mention. 
If he had rodents in the room the snake would have been in a "Feeding Frenzy" before being picked up to be placed back in the enclosure, not when he was at the enclosure.

The story doesn't say what distracted him so his full attention wasn't with the Taipan.
The story I read does give this information.

When they speak of his father they always say "reportedly with him", journalist talk for we have copied the story from another news organisation and don't have first hand information.


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## cement (Jan 28, 2018)

Don't bother. I can't be bothered trying to spell it out for you.


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## GBWhite (Jan 28, 2018)

From what I've read, seen and heard about this young fellow he has made a lot of rookie mistakes and it seems pretty consistent with those across the board who are just getting into keeping vens.

From personal experience there are a number of suggestions I'd like to make for anyone intending to or currently keeping dangerous vens.

All species of dangerous vens react to situations differently to each other. Before acquisition research the species one intends to keep. Talk to people who handle dangerous vens on a regular basis. People such as private keepers, zoo keepers, demonstrators and if possible field workers to gain as much knowledge about the mannerisms of the species. 

Always be vigilant and alert when handling them. Always make sure you are aware of where the snake is before opening the enclosure. Clean each cage one at a time. Use a hook to uncover the snake from a hide or substrate and move it or lift it up to access the tail. 

Never, ever trust them no matter how long they have been held in captivity. Keep handling to the very minimum. When handling always tail to have control over it's movement and use a hook to support their body weight but try and keep the snake suspended on the hook for as little time as possible. 

Except where they are being kept in pits, never keep more than one specimen in an enclosure.

Don't keep them in front opening enclosures. They are too unpredictable and can be difficult to remove from and replace back into the enclosure during cleaning, especially when warm and active. Top opening enclosures at waist level provide a far better and safer way to manage, remove and replace them. It also provides safer access to feed the critter.

When cleaning, remove them from the enclosure and place them directly into a plastic garbage bin and secure the lid. Again this provides safe access to the snake when removing it from the bin to place back in it's enclosure.

Never use tongs when feeding. After cleaning place the food item(s) in the enclosure prior to replacing the snake. Personally I don't think that it makes that much difference if the food items are held in a snake room during cleaning. If anything it does make them aware that a food item is in the vicinity. They will become more active and may move around their enclosure in anticipation but from experience I doubt very much if one could say that they go into a "feeding frenzy". However; all snakes held in the same room will become aware of the food items within a very short time of being brought into the room and will instinctively react to the smell. This will happen whether the food item is in or near the room during cleaning or as soon as the food items are brought in and placed about in the enclosures. 

Accidents do happen, so make sure there are a couple of pressure bandages handy and that all the household know the correct first aid procedure for snake bite. It will save your life and I can attest to the personally.

Last of all NEVER free handle vens.

Cheers,

George.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Jan 28, 2018)

Very informative George.


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