# Another cabinet another conversion - heating options



## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

Soooooo just picked up this tv cabinet.
plan was to knock a hole in the shelf or cut shelf to shape so me 2 1/2 yo male bredli could cruise between the 2 areas, even tho I knew the size of the cabinet before I picked it up i still can't get over how big it is. So now I'm thinking of changing my ideas and I'm liking my new idea as it will save me a lot of room.
just added the pic and for the life of me I don't know why it has turned sideways lol and can't seem to find if there is a rotate picture button anywhere.so hopefully jax will see and be kind enough to turn it for me 
so back to it…so these are all internal measurements. 
width of cabinet 1170 mm
depth of cabinet 420mm (back wall to front face)
top section - top of cabinet to shelf 400mm
main section - shelf to floor of cabinet 810 mm
door section -floor to base 460mm

so now I've seen the size I'm now thinking of putting my yearling spotted in the top section, which will mean he will have a home of H400xW1170xD420
Which will now leave the bredli to have a home of H816xW1170xD420 which should still be plenty heaps for him.

original plan was going to use a routed heat cord and tile on the shelf or heat lamp through the very top of the unit and cut part of the shelf out.
Am now thinking heat mat for the spotted ( hes already on a heat mat) but not sure how to heat up the bredli area. Im using a heat lamp for him, you can take a look at my only DIY (another DIY tv cabinet/enclosure thread) so I'm thinking I might have to change him to a heat cord.

any ideas or tips please don't be shy to let me know. There is no rush for this to be finished

Edit: changed the orientation of the cabinet so our members dont suffer neck strain


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## DarwinBrianT (Dec 26, 2013)

That cabinet looks great! As for the heat, for my money I love the heat pads that you screw to the roof. You would just have to put a shelf or branch up high for the snake to sit on.


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

DarwinBrianT said:


> That cabinet looks great! As for the heat, for my money I love the heat pads that you screw to the roof. You would just have to put a shelf or branch up high for the snake to sit on.



Heat pad / heat mat.?? How much difference between the 2??


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## DarwinBrianT (Dec 26, 2013)

Sorry I called it the wrong name it is a Radiant heat panel that I use. 
One doesn't burn your house down. lol Sorry I shouldn't joke about it. I'll never use a heat mat, I gave a new one I had away the other day. That's how much I don't like them. But that is just my 2c, others will say they are fine to use and for the most part they are.

I'll only use heat cord or Radiant heat panels. Google them.


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

DarwinBrianT said:


> Sorry I called it the wrong name it is a Radiant heat panel that I use.
> One doesn't burn your house down. lol Sorry I shouldn't joke about it. I'll never use a heat mat, I gave a new one I had away the other day. That's how much I don't like them. But that is just my 2c, others will say they are fine to use and for the most part they are.
> 
> I'll only use heat cord or Radiant heat panels. Google them.



yea ill go look at the heat panels . Thanks


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

DarwinBrianT said:


> Sorry I called it the wrong name it is a Radiant heat panel that I use.
> One doesn't burn your house down. lol Sorry I shouldn't joke about it. I'll never use a heat mat, I gave a new one I had away the other day. That's how much I don't like them. But that is just my 2c, others will say they are fine to use and for the most part they are.
> 
> I'll only use heat cord or Radiant heat panels. Google them.



just had a look at reptile radiators.they look good.with the heat lamp I'm using I get 34 degrees at around 30cm under the lamp. To get the same temp with 1 of these panels/radiators how far under it would i need to be?? It also said with the reptile radiator that the mounting side doesn't get to warm. I'm just wondering if I cut a hole in the shelf ,zigzagged heat cord in the hole cover the top with a tile an then maybe mesh the bottom.wonder how much heat would radiate downwards from the heat cord.would b nice to kill 2birds with 1 stone but somehow i don't think that will work lol


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## andynic07 (Dec 26, 2013)

Porkbones said:


> just had a look at reptile radiators.they look good.with the heat lamp I'm using I get 34 degrees at around 30cm under the lamp. To get the same temp with 1 of these panels/radiators how far under it would i need to be?? It also said with the reptile radiator that the mounting side doesn't get to warm. I'm just wondering if I cut a hole in the shelf ,zigzagged heat cord in the hole cover the top with a tile an then maybe mesh the bottom.wonder how much heat would radiate downwards from the heat cord.would b nice to kill 2birds with 1 stone but somehow i don't think that will work lol


I think that it will work just as well as a heat panel. I think Snowman makes his own heat panels with large corflute and heat cord , he feeds the cord through the holes in the end of the corflute and winds it through. Don't forget that heat rises so any heat device will work best heating above it rather than down from it.


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I think that it will work just as well as a heat panel. I think Snowman makes his own heat panels with large corflute and heat cord , he feeds the cord through the holes in the end of the corflute and winds it through. Don't forget that heat rises so any heat device will work best heating above it rather than down from it.



I've only used a lamp for the bredlis heat and know I can get 34 degrees to his perch about 30cm from th lamp. Never used or had anything to do with a radiator or panel so not sure how far under it I would have to have his perch to get the same temp.since I couldn't use a lamp maybe a cord under a tile.but then it will only give him belly heat.


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

And also don't know what temps a heat cord in the shelf idea will give me for the bredli in the bottom section.think I might ask pythonmum as I know she used a heat cord under a tile and then put mesh under the heat cord incase her snake wanted heat from the top.ill see what temps she gets under the cord.but it would b good to use 1 cord for both snakes


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## andynic07 (Dec 26, 2013)

Porkbones said:


> I've only used a lamp for the bredlis heat and know I can get 34 degrees to his perch about 30cm from th lamp. Never used or had anything to do with a radiator or panel so not sure how far under it I would have to have his perch to get the same temp.since I couldn't use a lamp maybe a cord under a tile.but then it will only give him belly heat.


Not sure on what height but [MENTION=16369]J-A-X[/MENTION] makes the tile version for her arboreal species I think and [MENTION=16366]Snowman[/MENTION] his heat panels as mentioned and there is a guy on here [MENTION=9442]James_Scott[/MENTION] that sells ProHerp heat panels that may be able to give you advice.


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Not sure on what height but @J-A-X makes the tile version for her arboreal species I think and @Snowman his heat panels as mentioned and there is a guy on here @James_Scott that sells ProHerp heat panels that may be able to give you advice.



Thanks for that mate will do some research on it


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## andynic07 (Dec 26, 2013)

They will all get a notification and may comment on this thread if your lucky. [MENTION=36220]Porkbones[/MENTION]


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## Porkbones (Dec 26, 2013)

[MENTION=34534]andynic07[/MENTION] cheers for that


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## James_Scott (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the mention. In regards to your setup with heating you can mount an 80W heat panel under the shelf to one side. This will not only heat the bredli but the spotted from below as well. Because of the size of the panel you will need to put a large vent in the top section of the enclosure on the cool end. Just keep a large water bowl in the upper enclosure as you will be heating 50% of the floor space and having a large vent will reduce the humidity.
Apart from that it should run very well. The 80W panel will give a hot spot of around 30-40C in the top enclosure and 30-35C in the lower enclosure (if you place a perch or shelf around 30cm away from the panel.
Good luck with the setup, it should be a lot of fun building. 
BTW, we recommend using either a dimming or pulse proportional thermostat with these panels. Our thermostats wont be ready until mid next year now, but you can get the habistat branded ones from Brian at the HerpShop.


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## Porkbones (Dec 27, 2013)

[MENTION=9442]James_Scott[/MENTION] mate thanks for ur reply. Really appreciate it. So these panels r quite big? And a cage can also be purchased for them. I'm surprised at how much heat will go thought the shelf and heat up the spotteds part and even more surprised tht I can still get a hotspot of around 30-35degrees 30 cm away


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## DarwinBrianT (Dec 27, 2013)

You don't need a cage to go over the Radiant heat panel.


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## Porkbones (Dec 27, 2013)

DarwinBrianT said:


> You don't need a cage to go over the Radiant heat panel.



Oh thanks.i saw reptile radiators and they say they are replacing the radiant heat panels, and u cn buy cages for the radiators .thought they must of been needed.


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## James_Scott (Dec 27, 2013)

The amount of heat transfered through the shelf does vary depending on the thickness of the shelf and material it is made from but a single sheet of wood should give adequate heat for the enclosure above. The panels do not require a cage as the materials that are used to make them allow the heat to pass through without th panel getting too hot to touch. They are also shaped so your snake cannot wrap itself around it for any long periods of time (if at all).
There will be a few more models coming out next year to.


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## Porkbones (Dec 27, 2013)

[MENTION=9442]James_Scott[/MENTION] I just saw and read up on the heat panel.wen I 1st googled it i ended up at the herp shop.but they only had the reptile radiator as they are replacing the heat panels.they (radiators) sound similar to the panel.says the radiators are keeping the benefits of the panels but with improvements like the mounting side not getting as hot and a bit more compact at 310mmx210mmx33mm. Thanks for steering me in the right direction


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## James_Scott (Dec 27, 2013)

Just so we are clear, reptile radiators and radiant heat panels are the same thing. The biggest difference between the habistat panels and the proherp panels are size and the temperature the panel itself gets to. Although you dont have to use a cage on the habistat panels it is recommended as they will burn your snake if it wraps around it. You wont have this problem with the proherp panel. They both produce similar amounts of heat at any given distance. I still use some old habistat ones that I havent replaced with my own proherp panels yet because do the job. I find I get a lot more heat transfer through the top of the habistat panels than I do the proherp panels by at least 10C.
There are times when I will recommend the habistat panel over the proherp one such as if you have a 2x2x2 enclosure and need a lot of heat and a 40w panel just wont do. An 80w panel wont fit but a habistat panel will.
Panels are the way to regardless of which one suits your needs.


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## Porkbones (Dec 27, 2013)

[MENTION=9442]James_Scott[/MENTION] ahhhh gotcha. Thank u for that


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## imported_Varanus (Dec 27, 2013)

James_Scott said:


> Panels are the way to regardless of which one suits your needs.



What about panels as opposed to heat mats/ cord JS? I'm guessing in a bank of enclosures the panels could heat the floor above, but what about the bottom enclosure, would you use a heat mat/ cord in conjuction with a panel above??...I really like the panels BTW.


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## ronhalling (Dec 27, 2013)

[MENTION=3093]pythonmum[/MENTION] makes a really good heat panel, i will be using her idea to make the heating for my new all in one enclosure for my spotties and Coastal.  ...................Ron


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## andynic07 (Dec 27, 2013)

ronhalling said:


> @pythonmum makes a really good heat panel, i will be using her idea to make the heating for my new all in one enclosure for my spotties and Coastal.  ...................Ron


Maybe that is who I was thinking of when I put J-A-X , not 100% sure.


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## Porkbones (Dec 27, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Maybe that is who I was thinking of when I put J-A-X , not 100% sure.




Yes I actually sent her a PM asking what temps she gets under the cord.


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## James_Scott (Dec 27, 2013)

Panels are perfect for arboreal species that bask on a ledge or branch. They also work well for terrestrial species when placed under a shelf or from the enclosure below as they will get belly heat.
These have to pass stringent tests to sell in Australia to make sure your house wont catch fire!

Now placing heat cord in core flute to make a panel will not only be a fire hazard ( read the what not to do's with heat cord. It says not to bend it to close proximity with itself as this can cause fire). But it does not even compare to a radiant heat source such as a panel. 

Using heat cord within 5cm - 8cm with itself as you do in racks is perfectly safe and the perfect way to heat racks. This also works well in enclosure banks for terrestrial species. 

Every heat source has its place in the market. You cant beat mercury vapour lights for a strong heat source with UV for monitors, Crocs and dragons but they wont do much for ambient temps.

Heat cord is great for racks and some enclosures as ststed earlier.

Ceramic heat emitters work very well in over sized enclosures particularly tall narrow enclosures.

Lights although produce heat just arent the most efficient or safe product now we have such a wide range of products.

When choosing your heat source, ask yourself is your animal terrestrial or arborial. Does it require temps above 40c?

What temps does your room get down to in winter and will your heat source be able to produce appropriate temps in winter? 

Will your enclosure accommodate that type of heat source?

Most importantly though, are you using the heat source to the manufacturers specifications? These standards are not put in place by the manufacturer they are put in place after testing by Australian standards and are there to protect you not the manufacturer.


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## pythonmum (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks for the mentions, guys. The heat cord 'panel' is a dickyknee innovation from a couple of years ago. He puts his in a metal frame with reflective surface on top. 

I have had one running for more than two years with great results. That one is under a wooden shelf, but the new one under the tile is even better. The original is downstairs where it gets quite cold in winter (12 - 14 at night). The basking spot is warm enough and large enough that my Darwin has no trouble. He has had two great winters there and fathered lovely clutches. His mate seems to find the heat appropriate when she makes conjugal visits. I will have to check temps above and below the tile panel for Porkbones, because the temp has dropped for the night and there is only 2 degrees difference between the tile and her branch ATM.


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## pythonmum (Dec 28, 2013)

Some surface temps for reference - on top of tile =31 C; branch 15-18 cm below = 24-25 C
She was hanging out below the panel last night in hunting mode, but is now warming up for the day on the tile.


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## Porkbones (Dec 28, 2013)

pythonmum said:


> Some surface temps for reference - on top of tile =31 C; branch 15-18 cm below = 24-25 C
> She was hanging out below the panel last night in hunting mode, but is now warming up for the day on the tile.



Thank u for checking and letting me know


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## J-A-X (Dec 30, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Maybe that is who I was thinking of when I put J-A-X , not 100% sure.



I do use heat cords but pythonmum has a lot more data re the temps. Mine all sit around 33c on top

I use only cords, I gave up in globes, they failed too often for my liking. 

I've got 6 Morelia spilota all heated this way, I'm unconventional in the fact I give them a warm (not hot) spot to bask if they like. I don't worry about gradients and my only concern is that they can get ambient room temp area if they choose. And they often like to pick what some would describe as the icy cold end of the enclosure. 
5 of my enclosures are 1200mm long x 600 high (Darwin's) while my coastal has a massive enclosure of 1200 wide x 1800 high. All are thriving, no signs of RI and no snappy animals despite their infrequent handling. 
While my methods are not conventional they work for me


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## DarwinBrianT (Dec 30, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> I do use heat cords but pythonmum has a lot more data re the temps. Mine all sit around 33c on top
> 
> I use only cords, I gave up in globes, they failed too often for my liking.
> 
> ...


I do something like this too and the snakes are doing very very well, I NOT an expert, but this works for me. 
I do think there is too much follow the leader with keeping snakes. ( with some things ) and some things should be locked in as fact. Again just my 2c


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## Porkbones (Dec 30, 2013)

For what I wanted (heating 2 snakes at once) it looks like I will go heat panel as it will radiate enough heat down for the bredli and enough to warm the shelf above it for the spotted


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