# Anyone lose a snake in the ACT.....?



## cagey (Apr 4, 2018)

Don't admit to it.........

https://www.smh.com.au/national/act...llegal-trade-in-canberra-20180401-h0y771.html


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## Bl69aze (Apr 4, 2018)

I think the most worrying part is the “overwhelmed by the amount of people who claimed it was theirs” :/ 

This throws me back to my reptile course and one of the other participants blatantly said “I have a corn snake and blah blah blah...”


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## Foozil (Apr 4, 2018)

Didn't realise there were so many exotics here


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## Snapped (Apr 5, 2018)

It's a worry, seems like someone is breeding them here. Especially if there are 2 found in public, the threat to our native species is a big concern.


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## cris (Apr 5, 2018)

Snapped said:


> It's a worry, seems like someone is breeding them here. Especially if there are 2 found in public, the threat to our native species is a big concern.


What impact would these species have if they could establish sustainable populations? Some species cause lots of problems, others don't. I can't imagine albino corn snakes causing any ecological problems, unless they came with exotic diseases.


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## Foozil (Apr 5, 2018)

cris said:


> What impact would these species have if they could establish sustainable populations? Some species cause lots of problems, others don't. I can't imagine albino corn snakes causing any ecological problems, unless they came with exotic diseases.


Good point, they would probably get killed quite quickly anyway since they're albino. But diseases seem likely.


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 5, 2018)

cris said:


> What impact would these species have if they could establish sustainable populations? Some species cause lots of problems, others don't. I can't imagine albino corn snakes causing any ecological problems, unless they came with exotic diseases.



Wrong. Corn Snakes are very successful invaders, capable of living in a wide variety of ecological niches in this country, which is why they are turning up with increasing frequency. They would be more than competitive with local species, with or without disease. Not a species to be casual about in Australia.

Jamie


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## Shire pythons (Apr 5, 2018)

Yeah the corn snakes are very hardy little buggers.. quite keen feeders and seem to thrive with very little help ..


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## GBWhite (Apr 6, 2018)

pythoninfinite said:


> Wrong. Corn Snakes are very successful invaders, capable of living in a wide variety of ecological niches in this country, which is why they are turning up with increasing frequency. They would be more than competitive with local species, with or without disease. Not a species to be casual about in Australia.
> 
> Jamie



Spot on Jamie. A species not to be casual about.

I remember when I was doing some work for the ARP some years ago that someone at Gosford chucked a clutch of Corn eggs into a bin in one of the snake rooms and forgot about them. Then a couple of months later one of the keepers attention was drawn to some movement in the same bin and found that all the clutch had hatched. Goes to show just how hardy they are.

Word on the grape vines is that there is quite a number of them out there in collections.

George.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

So are there people who just specialise in exotics in Aus? Or just people who are uneducated on the laws and just buy them off FB?


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## GBWhite (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> So are there people who just specialise in exotics in Aus? Or just people who are uneducated on the laws and just buy them off FB?



From what I've been told by pretty reliable sources there is an underground group of people who keep and deal in exotics (mainly snakes). And not just, pythons, boas and colubrids either.


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## Shire pythons (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> So are there people who just specialise in exotics in Aus? Or just people who are uneducated on the laws and just buy them off FB?


Both


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## cris (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> So are there people who just specialise in exotics in Aus? Or just people who are uneducated on the laws and just buy them off FB?


There are plenty of people who keep reptiles who are involved in organized crime. They see snakes as a symbol of being a hardcore badass or something. I have been offered a variety of illegal reptiles, although I don't know how many people were actually telling the truth vs. the number talking BS to try and make themselves sound cool.

While these days there are many more almost normal people keeping reptiles, there used to be a much larger pecentage of dodgy people involved. It is why many people will not sell reptiles from their house.


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Apr 6, 2018)

Didn’t someone admit to an escaped cobra a few years ago.
[doublepost=1522981120,1522980985][/doublepost]http://www.news.com.au/national/que...s/news-story/89f306ee528dd375dc1269fc88a6c4a2


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Stacks of exotic turtles and tortoises in Australia in the illegal trade arena.


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## The_Phantom (Apr 29, 2018)

cris said:


> ...While these days there are many more almost normal people keeping reptiles...


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 29, 2018)

cris said:


> … there used to be a much larger pecentage of dodgy people involved. …


 How did you arrived at that conclusion? Given that there are many more exotic snakes turning these days than in prior decades, I would have thought that the opposite was the case if anything.

Exotic snakes have been available in Australia for a long time. I was shown an exotic acquired by a nowadays very high profile herp educator some 50 years ago. As an aside, I am sure he would die of embarrassment if reminded. I don’t consider you can pigeon hole all exotic snake keepers into just two or three groups. However there are a few general comments that can be made.

Australia has long been one of the major recipients of smuggled drugs and for a substantial period our reptiles were often smuggled out on the return journeys. Outlaw bikie groups have also been long associated with illegal snakes, both native and exotic, probably as a combination of macho image and thumbing their noses at the law by keeping something illegal. Aside from these you have regular herp enthusiasts that have succumbed to the lure of a given exotic or three. Hard core exotic keepers/collectors. Non-herp people that have picked up a gorgeous harmless coin-sized or worm-sized pet when holidaying overseas. The same is true of a number of established herp enthusiasts. Then there are those cannot resist the enticement when given the opportunity to own something different and often highly attractive and so purchase it when offered locally. Again, this extends to both experienced and inexperienced herp keepers. Then there are those, both experienced keepers and total novices, who deliberately set out to acquire things like corn snakes because they are easy to maintain, easy to breed, and relatively easy to make money out of.

There is a well-established market here for exotic reptiles in most states of Australia. As a result, there are a number of networks and individuals that deal in them. This includes breeding animals. You only have to skim through the general classifieds that offer pets for sale to affirm that. Many deals are done in hotel carparks out the trunk of a car.


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## GhoulGecko (Apr 29, 2018)

Did anyone ever think that the snake maybe just wanted a snack?


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 29, 2018)

The burgers are better at Hungry Jack's.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 29, 2018)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> Didn’t someone admit to an escaped cobra a few years ago.



Not wanting to take away from the seriousness of the story but that statement right there.......*"like the Burmese python, but it can grow to 15m and weigh over 100kg"*. That would be a bloody impressive Burm and make them the longest species in the world. Had he written 5m it would have been closer to the truth.


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 29, 2018)

Did some reading up on corn snakes a few years back for an article in our newsletter, as a follow-up to a behind the scenes visit to the zoo, where they had two baby corns. Given some of the questions and statements made earlier, I feel it is worthwhile putting a few facts into the mix to support the comments made by Jamie and George with regard to Corn snakes.

So why worry about Corn Snakes? They are tolerant of a wide range of environment conditions and adaptable to a wide range of habitats. They are a generalist predator which feeds on a wide variety of prey including frogs, lizards, small mammals, ground dwelling and nesting birds. They have a high fecundity and as illustrated by George, a high survival and hatch rate of eggs. They are also a demonstrated *invasive exotic*, having established spreading non-native populations in the Cayman Islands, the Virgin Islands and the Bahamas. They are known as a carrier of the parasite, _Cryptosporidium_, which can infect humans, domestic and native animals, with diarrhoeal disease. They can also carry ticks that spread the bacterium _Cowdria ruminatntium_ that can kill grazing animals.

What this clearly indicates is that should a breeding population establish in the wild in Australia, it would have the capacity to breed in high numbers and spread. Add to that its generalist diet and environmental hardiness, and hatching and survival rates can be expected to be high. These factors would facilitate a rapidly increasing population size.


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