# Animals don't like to be (live) food - proof!



## Pyror (Jun 22, 2006)

The issue of feeding live rodents to snakes has been repeatedly debated. At the end of the day it seems the general consensus is that it shouldn't be condoned. 

I think that one perspective that hasn't been extensively looked at is whether or not these fury little critters like the idea of being eaten alive. Well the proof is here. Watch this and believe!

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/matrixmouse.html


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## Pyror (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

There are some much nastier live feedings on this site, but i feel that they are a bit too graphical to be linked directly to. If you look around on there, i'm sure you'se will find them.


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## Earthling (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....................Peter Singer!


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## fishbot (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

As yin to your yang i provide this link to rodent/reptile lubbins...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10903211/


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## jordo (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

Yeah, some pretty cruel videos on there, how about the spider vs mouse one the venom didn't take long to have an effect.


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## OdessaStud (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

I have to agree there is no reason to live feed,most herps are bred in captivity so you would think they were started on dead pinkies (i would hope).Even if you have to feed fresh killed its still far better than feeding alive .Rodents do feel pain and fear, and deserve some compasion I hate the thought of any one feeding one of my very trusting rodent kids alive to their snake.
Odessa

Karma is one of lifes mysteries!!!!


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## MrBredli (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

There's nothing mysterious about karma; it comes around then goes around, simple


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 22, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

Karma is a load of crap!!

For karma to be real would mean there has to be a higher power, because it is statistically impossible for all my bad deeds to come and bite me on the ass, that could only happen if there was someone making it happen.

**** happens, karma doesn't.


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## cris (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Animals don*

If it wasnt such a cruel subject i would have said it was better than the real matrix. 

IMO something like that is very bad, but feeding live food to something that kills it extremely quickly is completely differant. 
I have what i now call 'coinhabitant fish'(formeraly feeder fish) with my turtles and fish and i dont think its cruel for them to eat one of them(its is completely agaist my will :wink: )

If karma existed a giant rat would grab me by the tail and whack my head on something, chuck me in a freezer, defrost me and feed me to a really big snake, it hasnt happend yet but i guess it could. Not to mention what all the cows, pigs, fish and chickens i have eaten would do:lol:


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## snakegal (Jun 23, 2006)

Thats so sad! I really feel for that poor little mouse! It's no different from a person having someone take stabs at them with a knife, but being taunted with death as they keep missing...but they know death is coming no matter what or how much they dodge the knife initally. It's sickening to think of how terrified that mouse must have been...some people are just sadistic sick freaks. :twisted: 

I think that snake/hamster friendship must be like 1:1000000. Wouldn't see that happen too often. Besides the point, the person who put that hamster in did it with full intention for it to be eaten alive. That hamsters jus 1 lucky little critter.




Pyror said:


> The issue of feeding live rodents to snakes has been repeatedly debated. At the end of the day it seems the general consensus is that it shouldn't be condoned.
> 
> I think that one perspective that hasn't been extensively looked at is whether or not these fury little critters like the idea of being eaten alive. Well the proof is here. Watch this and believe!
> 
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/matrixmouse.html


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

That's disturbing.


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## instarnett (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Why is that so terrible? because it was video'd? no indictation beyond the length of the vid of how long it was in there. so the poor mouse is freaked, the poor snake is hungry. just because the vid is given a silly name dosent make it awful or unusual, it may have been removed immediately after the vid ended.
no reason to assume that because the person thought the mouses behaviour was worth videoing that he/she was getting sick pleasure. it wasnt overly long time to give the snake opportunity to get it right, was it?
how long is acceptable? I counted 35 seconds. I understand empathy for the mouse, I thought so too, poor thing, but some dont take frozen.


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

instarnett, I found that terrible because the mouse is freaked and the snake is hungry. They are both contained in a small area with neither able to 'run away' to seek shelter, therefore the fight instinct will come into play and things can get nasty. This video itself may not be cruel and sick, for the reasons you point out. However, there is no doubt that this sort of thing goes on all over the world and that video is, for me, a horrible reminder of just how bad conditions can be for some kept animals.

I will add too, that during the duration of that filming, regardless of what happens later, that mouse is being terrorised and that snake is being teased.

Oh funny, it's so haha. :roll:


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## raptor (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

No Comment (Well none that wont get me banned)


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## instarnett (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

I agree wrasse but thats the nature of reptile keeping as I said, its unfortunate for the mouse but if you keep a snake you have equal responsibility to its needs. If it wont take frozen you may need to eventually resign yourself to the fact youll have to feed live, and this may happen, sad for mouse as it is. Personally I think what was shown (35 seconds) wasnt overly long an opportunity for the snake to catch it. Maybe the mouse had just had a morning coffee. 
Think I mightve missed your point lol bit of a risky venture for the snake, I agree.
what can you do if the rat freaks out immediatly? stunning might be just as cruel? Is a python on a cave wall teased as thousands of bats fly by untill it catches one?


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## FAY (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Humans do worse things to other humans......and they should know better!!


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## instarnett (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

I* love the beardy in your Avatar Fay, lots of yellow. Is it a barbata? We have a male like that.


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## FAY (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Hi Instarnett, not a barbata....he is our gorgeous male 'yellowbeard' vitticeps.
He has been at the vets for weeks now, with an infected eye. The vet removed the eye........poor darling....but had to do the best for him. He is just the most beautiful, placid boy!! His colour is actually cream with a yellow beard!!


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## instarnett (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Oh poor thing, thats a shame, still, better one eyed than dead eh. Our boy is barbata, has bright vivid yellow face and legs and down his sides, but his beard is black. The side of your fellas face reminded me of ours.
Ours is very placid too, I think its just the nature of beardys, though our baby henri lawsonii is a savage little thing. LOl


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## cris (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

What wrasse said, more better words than i could coherently write. 
The way its made out to be some sort of game is sickening :x 
I cant work out if that the snakes cage or the rodents either way its just bad, stick em in jail for a year i reckon.

Instarnett can you post pics of your yellow barbata, i havnt actually seen any of "colour" in captive collections(im hoping others will prove me wrong too).


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Would you all feel the same if the snake would only eat live prey?


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

I may not have ventured into keeping snakes if feeding live prey was the only option.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Surely you know that there are some individual snakes that refuse to eat dead food, even force feeding does not work on all animals, should these be left to die? Would such an animal die in the wild?

I don't condone live feeding when it can be avoided, but if there is no other choice, thats life.


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## Lurk (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

I will not enter the debate about wether food should be fed live or not I go both ways and so do my pythons its that simple.
I found that pretty funny :lol: What have they fed that mouse and does he work out?
Yes its sick humour but those of you against live food must see the fun side to it. :wink:


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## Lurk (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

As much as I fed my female mice I found them to be more distuctive then a quick bite and swollw from a snake.Some female mice for some umknown reason decide to do odd things like chew off tails or take out whole litters.
I would much prefer a quick death.


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Snakewrangler, I am well aware of that, I have a few snakes in my collection that will only eat live food. Mainly fisheaters, but I have one carpet that until recently would turn her nose up at dead dinner. Notice that I said 'until recently'. 
It has taken three years, but finally this little carpet is eating frozen/thawed rats. I didn't enjoy having to feed her live, but it didn't stop me as it came down to her or the mouse. I managed to get her to eat fresh killed, but the corpse had to be still kicking and regardless of what has been said in the thread, I think that to 'whack' and toss a dying throes/still kicking, fresh killed mouse in to her was far more humane for snake and mouse, than to toss a live mouse in was.

However, if, way back in the beginning before I took my first snake on, the only way that all snakes would eat was to eat live, I doubt I would have taken any snakes on at all.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Wrasse, I hope you don't think I was having a go at you or anything, I feel the same way. The aim of all keepers should be to get their animals on to dead food as soon as possible, if not from the very first meal, I am glad you were successful in doing so.

I am against the "whack" method of killing mice, I think it is inhumane and would cause considerable pain to the mouse, that pain may only last a short while but there is no way it is an instant death, even if the animal stops moving, it may be paralised or something and unable to move. The only truly painless way to kill them is "putting them to sleep" with gas. Even that would be very stressful, I have seen it done and done it a few times myself, the animals literally freak out, but at least they are not in pain and they are usually unconcious within seconds.

This is just my opinion of course.


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## Craig2 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: Animals don*



raptor said:


> No Comment (Well none that wont get me banned)




or burnt to a crisp


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

Mine are usually gassed, however, with this snake, the best I could do was 'whacked' as they had to be still kicking or she wouldn't touch them. Even the rat dance, rat dance on cotton and wriggle around a corner tricks didn't work.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

It still amazes me how they can tell the difference between live animal movements and even the most disguised faked ones, I guess they can probably sense the fear factor as well...


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

Well, when whacked, the fear factor is gone, but it was suggested to me the residual muscle movements (kicking) will cause the lungs to rise and fall and it is the expiring air, essentially C02 (?) that she may be picking up as 'breathing'.

Quite seriously, if the mouse slowed down and kicking virtually stopped, she lost interest in it. Yet even though it may have 'quivered' for a while afterwards, still, from her, no response.

Thank goodness that chapter of our lives is over. It was very stressful, (at least for me ).


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## jordo (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*



> It still amazes me how they can tell the difference between live animal movements and even the most disguised faked ones, I guess they can probably sense the fear factor as well...


It might be a heat sensing thing as well.



> Thank goodness that chapter of our lives is over. It was very stressful, (at least for me ).


Is she on thawed now?


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## Wrasse (Jun 23, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

Yeap  Takes them like a champ now, even tried to take my hand the other night.


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## instarnett (Jun 24, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*



> Instarnett can you post pics of your yellow barbata, i havnt actually seen any of "colour" in captive collections(im hoping others will prove me wrong too).



here is a 'family' pic. 







another


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## micko (Jun 24, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

personally i couldn't do that but each to their own.I also do understand though that some snakes will only eat live but lucky for me mine all eat thawed .


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## cris (Jun 24, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

Nice beardies Instanett  thanks for posting them.



> I am against the "whack" method of killing mice, I think it is inhumane and would cause considerable pain to the mouse, that pain may only last a short while but there is no way it is an instant death,


So an instant massive force causing instant loss of consiousness and stoppage of brain function isnt humane?


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## mauesha (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: Animals don*



instarnett said:


> Why is that so terrible? because it was video'd? no indictation beyond the length of the vid of how long it was in there. so the poor mouse is freaked, the poor snake is hungry. just because the vid is given a silly name dosent make it awful or unusual, it may have been removed immediately after the vid ended.
> no reason to assume that because the person thought the mouses behaviour was worth videoing that he/she was getting sick pleasure. it wasnt overly long time to give the snake opportunity to get it right, was it?
> how long is acceptable? I counted 35 seconds. I understand empathy for the mouse, I thought so too, poor thing, but some dont take frozen.



If the snake is hungry enough it'll eat. I'm sure you just need to give it more time =)


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## shellshock (Jun 24, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: Animals don*

I must say Im ainst feeding live food...but when they just wont eat it comes back to .. would you rather your snake die


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## mauesha (Jun 24, 2006)

What happened to good 'ol fashioned force feeding?


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## inked (Jun 25, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

haha that cracked me up


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## Kersten (Jun 25, 2006)

mauesha said:


> What happened to good 'ol fashioned force feeding?


Yeah it works sometimes....but it's stressful for the snake, and unless it was absolutely the only way the snake would eat it would be one thing. I'd want to exhaust other options first.


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## Mysnakeau (Jun 25, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

I too feel saddened that ppl can crack jokes at seeing another being taunted. Whilst I agree the snake has a right to eat and live, so does the mouse. There are more humane ways to feed our animals. Like what about the stuff you can buy from a pet store called MOUSE-AID (or something like that...:lol: I stock it &amp; don't remember the name) but its a liquid you can add to frozen foods just before feeding, to create the smell of fresh food. I have found it quite popularly used. I'll find the correct name and edit this post.


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## mauesha (Jun 25, 2006)

*RE: Re: Animals don*

Yes please =)


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