# Building my own enclosure - few questions



## animush (Jan 2, 2011)

Hello 

Its almost time for my juvi stimson to move into a bigger home. Hes now over 60cm and still in a 30x30x30 glass cube. I would like to build him a bigger home within the next few weeks and just have a few questions for those of you who build their own enclosures.

Firstly, i know that 60Wx40Dx450H will be a decent enough size for an adult stimson, but what about possibly a pair in future? I am also unsure as to what thickness of wood to use, and should it have small feet so the base is raised off the surface by an inch or so?

I would like to build the enclosure from wood, as I have read that they are better at retaining heat than glass and stimsons are a desert snake. Does black wood retain heat better than white, and are there any negatives to using it?

I am planning to use sand as a substrate, approx 10cm to allow a few hills/burrows and generally more interesting terrain. I will be heating this from above with a heat lamp, but I am not sure if I also should heat from below or get a infa red lamp and just use 2 lights? or even just 1 decent heat lamp? Will this be something I should try by monitoring temps and just see what works? I am not planning on using a thermostat, and hoping to achieve a stable temperature by using low wat lamps.

Any advice on heating efficiently would be appreciated as this is my first snake I am still a bit of a noob. I am just using a heat mat under a glass tank for now, so have not any exp with more complicated set ups.

I am planning on having 2 intake vents low down on either side, and a wire mesh top (where the lamp+reflector will sit) possibly covered by a wooden hood with an exhaust vent on the rear, will this provide sufficient ventillation without the need for fans, and will the heat regulate okay?

I will probably also be fixing a thick branch at either end as a shelf.

Here is a rough sketch of my design so far, if anyone can suggest improvments or criticisms please go ahead. Please excuse my terrible/quick drawing its just so you get an idea of my design.

(updated simplified design, if it works don't change it right?)



Sorry about such a long post. Thanks for reading and appreciate any advice you may have. I am sure I will have overlooked something so if anyone has some detailed info on the subject please share it 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## dickyknee (Jan 2, 2011)

Patrick , 
I would scrap any exhaust fans , they will be a complete waste of money ... the two vents you have will be plenty .
Keep in mind too the mesh on top will be a allowing a lot of your heat out , i would seriously reconsider even using it at all .
I would use ground heat for stimmis , no need to do any thing fancy with light set ups etc , unless you want a light wattage day light / view light ..

Black or white melamine wont make any difference to holding heat .


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## animush (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for your input dickyknee, I've had another thought tonight for a slightly different design using a different kind of heat source, which would allow me to scrap the whole top part and basically just leave myself 30-50mm in top for insulation/cables for the light, and using a low power infa-red or heat light 24/7 inside to heat the air and basking site, can you use heat cord underneath a wooden box as long as its getting some ventillation (ie 1-2cm gap under tank) or maybe shield it with a thin piece of tin/slate? any suggestions appreciated i'm not sure how best to heat the ground for a stimmi.

Thanks!


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## TA1PAN (Jan 2, 2011)

Honestly mate just use one heat source either a globe,mat,heat cord,heat panel etc. i prefer globes (just make sure you put a cage around it).


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## animush (Jan 2, 2011)

After some thought I will probably just go with the one infa red heat bulb and natural light and see how the temps go, adjusting accordingly. The less ventilated wooden enclosure and basking rocks should absorb and retain the heat very well. Keep it simple and less can go wrong imo.

i have updated my original design with this in mind here is a rough sketch and first post updated.



I would really appreciate any input on the new design or the heating solution based on this design.

Cheers!

Patrick


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## gillsy (Jan 2, 2011)

Scrap the branch, I know some stimmi's will climb but these are ground dwelling snakes so you want to use something that similates this. So using this as a basking spot isn't a great idea. 

I would go heat cord under some tiles, i've done this in the past. Herp Enclosures Design - Tiling and Heat Tape This is the basic design just change it to match yours.

Benefit about using heat cord to is you wont need a thermostat, just make sure one end is clear of heat.


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## jham66 (Jan 2, 2011)

I would also scrap the timber in favour of some interesting rocks. You could get a bit creative, use a flat rock, like shale or something simular, with the heat cord underneath. You could then get a few other rocks to make a hide by placing them in a row to hide a corner. your snake will go over the top and curl in the corner. Be careful of piles of rocks though, snakes are strong and if they dislodge your pile it could end in disaster!


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## winny111 (Jan 2, 2011)

I would suggest you dont use sand in the enclosure. If you look take a look at the care sheets from DEC it says not to use sand as it can harbour disease. A few people in WA have had inspections from DEC and got into trouble.
If you wish to build an wooden enclosure, ask bunnings to ordewr for you plastic track from Icon Plastics it is cheaper than the on they sell on the shelf. They also have little round vents avaliable 2 on each side of an enclosure you are considering should be ample. 
If you wish to use this enclosure at a later date for 2 stimsons, I would suggest making the enclosure a bit larger on floor area. If you are concerned about it being to big for a small snake as some people are include a few extra hides. My reasoning for this is snakes in the wild have a huge enclosure but they also have a lot of places to hide. 
I agree one heat source should be ample. 
Another reason for a larger enclosure is that it is easyer to create a thermal gradient, and if done correctly can be built without a thermostat. Not using a thermostat is controversial but I have found when thermostats blow most run flat out and the temps get to high. If you use the correct size globe or heat source it can run flat out all the time without temps getting to high or low.
I would not use an exaust fan or mesh at the top.
Instead of a heat lamp, I would use a ceramic light fitting the ones with a base of about 90mm diameter I find good as the protect the wood from the heat of the light, just make sure you place a cage around it to stop the snake coiling around the light and getting burnt.
As for the thickness of the wood I think its 16mm melamine is a good size, you can also buy the iron on edging to neaten up the cut edges. I personally find the thicker the glass doors the less heat is lost through them, I use 6mm and if you look around it is not that much more expensive than 3mm or 4mm
Hope this helps
Andrew


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## animush (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for the input so far, I really appreciate it. Giving me some good ideas, will probably make it to bunnings today to see whats available but I now have a much better idea what Im getting.

Any more tips keep them coming please


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## Tassie97 (Jan 2, 2011)

Hi could some people post some pics of their home made enclosures 
Also can you use real timber to make it look a bit nicer ?

Thanks in advance tassie97


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## winny111 (Jan 2, 2011)

If you build an enclosure from real timber be carefull what type of timber you use, I have beedn told some are not suitable.
You also need to seal natural timber


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## animush (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for your guidence winny111 here is a pic of what I knocked up this afternoon, total cost so far about $40 from bunnings, and about an hour to cut/assemble.



edit: in this pic it looks like the edging is unsealed at the front, but its all been edged.

I've sealed all the insides with a bit of silicone, and the rear vent is also fixed in place with silicone, so should not be possible for an animal to remove.

I still need to get some glass for sliding doors (i have decided on sliding glass) and going to try and get some ceramic ES fittings from middys as I believe they stock them, if not will need to order online and wait a few days, will need to order some cages too. Any suggestions on where to find glass in Perth, and/or get it cut too?

Im probably just going to put in the 1 light and fitting, as I think that will be sufficient for this small enclosure, but the temptation to install 1 day and 1 night light is high. Thoughts anyone?

Also, to disinfect/clean just a quick spray with pine-o-clean or something should be ok yea?

Cheers!


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## animush (Jan 4, 2011)

I am pretty keen on getting an exo tera solar glo bulb or simillar (herp shop has its own model too), as it seems to do everything. light, heat, uva, uvb, etc.
linky

Any thoughts on this type of bulb for the size of my viv? I know some people just use regular bulbs from bunnings or wherever, are these just as effective?

I am going to see if I can get ceramic sockets from middys today, if I want to check prices on bulbs from there, what do I need to look at for a heat/light bulb. I assume if i ask for a self-ballasted mercury vapour bulb they might not use those terms?

Cheers!


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## winny111 (Jan 4, 2011)

If you want a self ballasted murcury vapour bulb you will pay quite a bit, lamp replacements have them.
I use a R80 incandecent 60 or 75 watt globe depending on time of year.
Enclosure is starting to look good, better than that little glass box.
What size did you end up making the enclosure.


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## animush (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks, I ended up getting a few ceramic fittings from middys today for $5 each, and got a globe @ the pet shop, went with a sunglow spotlight which should not be too powerful for this small tank.

Exact measurments are slightly different from what I originally designed, but silly me, I had forgotten to account for the width of the wood once assembled! All good however, its still approx 595Wx400Dx445H. This turned out to be very simple to construct as the melamine sheets at buttings come in 1800x595 and 1200x445 which meant only 3-4 cuts necessary for 4 sides and a top and bottom.

Will put up another few pics once I get the glass on and wire in the sockets (couldn't be bothered doing that today) then perhaps a few more once it is occupied


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## baxtor (Jan 5, 2011)

animush said:


> Will put up another few pics once I get the glass on and wire in the sockets (couldn't be bothered doing that today) then perhaps a few more once it is occupied



I am surprised the resident forum police have not pulled you up yet for the wiring comment.


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## animush (Jan 6, 2011)

baxtor said:


> I am surprised the resident forum police have not pulled you up yet for the wiring comment.


 
Why would they do that?


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## liney (Jan 6, 2011)

PLease dont use pine o clean to clean the enclosure- try Repticlean or something designed for reptiles that wont irritate or harm your snake. Also if you build more in the future try to put air ve
nts opposite each other on the sides - 1 up high near the heat source and the other low on the other side to create a heat vacuum which enables air flow.


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## baxtor (Jan 6, 2011)

animush said:


> Why would they do that?



DIY wiring is a big NO-NO.


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## animush (Jan 6, 2011)

liney said:


> PLease dont use pine o clean to clean the enclosure- try Repticlean or something designed for reptiles that wont irritate or harm your snake. Also if you build more in the future try to put air vents opposite each other on the sides - 1 up high near the heat source and the other low on the other side to create a heat vacuum which enables air flow.



Thanks for the input, I am considering another vent on the lower left side (and will use a simillar design to yours on any more I make) but will see how temps go with the glass on. Right now temp gradient seems ideal with a single 75W sun glow lamp 

Thanks for the pics too, I especially like the second one.



baxtor said:


> DIY wiring is a big NO-NO.


 
I understand that if u don't know what ur doing it can be potentially dangerous, but even though im not licenced as a sparky, if my wiring was ever inspected you would not be able to tell its not a pro job.


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## chickensnake (Jan 6, 2011)

Theese all have vents now, just need to get them wired up.


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## liney (Jan 6, 2011)

Nice joinery, are the bottom ones for vens? What else you keeping in the others?


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## animush (Jan 15, 2011)

Ok I got the call to pick up the glass today, so as thats done I cut and put in the tracking, waiting on some silicone to dry overnight. After the advice I recieved here, I installed a second vent (same size), lower down on the side to hopefully create better air flow. If I really struggle to get temperatures right (no thermostat method) I will start cutting a mesh hole in the top until its big enough that the temperatures get perfect average conditions. I've also installed the light socket, protective cage, an on/off switch on the rear, basking branch (lightly sanded). I'm not a sparky but I think I did a pretty good job, and my cables are completly tidy so no chance of any accidents. Will get some pics up over the weekend once I give it a clean, then get the temps are right so I can move my stimson in.

Cheers


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## cadwallader (Jan 15, 2011)

i would recommend using a thermostat would be so much easier then cutting air hole but thats just me lol


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## 86JAP (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey mate enclosure sounds great looking forward to some finished pics. just a quick question about the globe u used, the exo terra site u provided a link to says that those globes are only avalible in 125w and 160w what size did u use??

Cheers Sam.


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## dan88 (Jan 15, 2011)

mate a thermostat is recommended just incase something buggers up. i have an enclosure approx same size as yours n i use a ministat 400 thermostat and it regulates perfectly between 33.5 and 31. the with a ceramic heat blub. and a heat mat under the basking spot. keeps perfect temps. cheers


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## animush (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the tips everyone. Here is a picture of the completed setup, minus some minor rearranging once my fake grassy shrubs get here. I will definitly look at including a thermostat in the future as a precaution, but temps seem perfect for now.







I am using a 50w Heat Glow exo terra light as the only source of heat, set on a 12 hour timer. 7am to 7pm. There is not a lot of natural light gets into my house, so I've gone this route.

I was planning on using a 15w heat cord below this enclosure, but temps seem pretty ideal right now as it is. Im only running 12 hours of heat a day, would anyone recommend the heat cord for night heat? 

Temps on the rocks are about 35 degrees and at the other end vary between 26-28 degrees depending on ambient temps. This has been monitored for several hours in the heat of the day and seems very stable. The reason I prefer this method to a setup involving a thermostat is that there is less chance of any sort of failure.

I stayed up to observe the snakes behaviour in the new enclosure, spending the first 6-8 hours trying to escape I assume. Eventually he/she tried to get through the gap between the 2 sheets of glass, and was successful. I let it get about 1/3 of the way out before gently alerting it to my presence and it retracted its neck. I then folded some cardboard in half and stuffed it in the gap to prevent any future escapes.

Appreciate any feedback or decoration ideas.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## giggle (Jan 16, 2011)

You need to put some of that glass track along the side of the front opening as well  This will help prevent escape. You need a lock as well and especially if you have no intention of putting track along the sides. You can get some strips of rubber that stick to the inside of windows and doors.... put that in the gap between the glass but use two pieces, one on either piece of glass side by side.


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## giggle (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh, I would also suggest using some silicone to attach some handles to the front so you dont need to awkwardly push the doors to open them.

Here is an example


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## animush (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks, I have a lock but its just not on in that photo, and I got some weather strips and fixed them to the glass today. Also before anyone mentions it, there is a water bowl in there too, in the front right corner.

Cheers

---------- Post added 17-Jan-11 at 12:55 PM ----------

Here are a couple of quick pics of the snake enjoying the new heat source. It might be pleasent to have a light to bask with, instead of a 5w heat source in a tiny box. Has been much more active since moving in, and seems happier. I noticed that I could see right through the snake when it was resting against the cage, you might notice the faint red glow in the first picture. It wasn't easy to catch on camera, but looked very rad.










Will update again once the fake grasses I ordered arive and I finish the decorations.

Cheers


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## WAG_S (Apr 26, 2011)

hi, i have been told many times the way you work out the globe wattage is roughly 40w per foot of enclosure, i have a 4x2x2 and have 160w of globes, one 100w and a 60w. it also will depend on where your tank is located, mine is in the garage and so i could even go to 175 or 200w. you will not want to go to much wattage as you will possibly still burn the snake. to little and you may burn out your thermostat. (if your using one) i would recomment starting with the 40w rule of thumb and adjust as needed after that. 
I also find keeping a large amount of rock in the enclosure will help retain heat when the thermosat goes off. and offers many more places for the snake to bask.


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