# What is the Best Way of Joining Melamine Together????



## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

8) As in another topic ( http://aussiepythons.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12660 ) I am building my own rather large enclosures.

:?: What I want to know is .... What is the best way of joining the melamine together? Obviously I will have both corner and T joins to make.

:?: Can someone advise me on the best Method to join.
Glue and Screw?? If so what glue?? What size screws??

Is there another way to do it???
:roll: 
:?: Once I do finish all the woodwork cutting and joining I want to seal all the egdes... Is Aquarium Silicon the best thing to do it with or is there something better???


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## peterescue (Aug 27, 2005)

The best thing for joining is chipboard screws(probably 55mm), pre drill and countersink(you can buy a bit that does both at the same time(smaller diameter drill bit than the screws- same size only ever for hard wood), I like to seal with Sikaflex(more expensive but great product).
On the edges of the actual melamine you can use an iron on melamine strip. You then trim it with a sharp blade and sand the edge lightly.


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## daveyg1 (Aug 27, 2005)

check this site out, it might help you
http://www.thestyleshouse.freeserve.co.uk/building.htm


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## The Rock (Aug 27, 2005)

Non-toxic silaflex,(for fish tanks), and partical board screws.


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## Stevo (Aug 27, 2005)

sticky tape works good


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## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

Stevo said:


> sticky tape works good



Sticky tape?????? O.....K......?????


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## Kikkers_mum (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm with you Surfcop...what the??!!


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## Retic (Aug 27, 2005)

I can't believe someone asks for serious advice and you give an answer like that...........................everyone knows it's masking tape for melamine. 



Stevo said:


> sticky tape works good


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## Ramsayi (Aug 27, 2005)

Thanks for the heads up guys.I always thought that bluetac was the best option


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## The Rock (Aug 27, 2005)

Try using a big huck tooee, its easier if ya have a cold.


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## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

Lol..... Ok Ok.... I just went down to the hardware... Had a look at the Sikaflex and read the instructions etc. Ended up talking with one of the older fella's that works there and he was trying to sell me the cheaper Liquid nails even when I said I was told to use Sikaflex. And yes I did tell him what I was making, and what for. He said "Liquid nails looses its acidity and toxicity when it dries. And that there would only be a small bead of it round the edges anyways". Gee's its so hard to get people to agree on something...?? 

Any Opinions or thoughts again???

So far... I will use Liquid nails and particle board screws to join... The big question now is to use Sikaflex as a sealer round the edges or a Little bit more liquid nails....??

And another.... How deep should I make it?? Had decided 495mm as thats what the sheet is cut to. But Iam now swaying to possibly 595mm. Sheets again precut that size. Whats everyone's thoughts?


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## Retic (Aug 27, 2005)

As far as fixing the sheets together use PVA glue and particle board screws, they have a very coarse thread especially for 'loose' materials like melamine sheet. 
I think Rock might have been talking about Sikaflex to seal not join ?

As far as size that quesion is akin to asking how long is a pice of string. How much room do you have and what are you keeping ? Just go with the size you prefer, there are no rules.


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## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

Well I do have 2 Coastals at the moment......But will be getting more.... of maybe something else.....dont know what yet...so I need a width that can suit most snakes..


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## Retic (Aug 27, 2005)

To be honest 500 or 600 would be fine. Height is pretty important too for carpets. It really comes down to personal preference and available space.


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## congo_python (Aug 27, 2005)

bathroom silicon (mould resistant) and smooth out excess in corners to help seal interior of cage + screws.


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## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

Space....I have plenty of... top enclosure is 3 foot high..bottom will be 2 foot high......... so 500 should be right hey.......

And yes I do know Sikaflex is for sealing...but is there a need for sikaflex when liquid nails could be used at a cheaper price... with apparently no ill side effects?


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## Retic (Aug 27, 2005)

Yeah 500 would be more than adequate at that height.

Ah yes I see what you mean, Liquid Nails is really messy stuff. I use it for construction work but wouldn't use it in a cage personally.


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## Surfcop24 (Aug 27, 2005)

ok...so just a bead of it (Liquid Nails) for the joins.......

And when finished, I will run some Sikaflex roung all the corners and edges...smoothing with my finger to seal it up.....


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## Caveman (Aug 27, 2005)

As mentioned use PVA wood glue to join the the sheets before adding screws and seal the inside joins with any silicone (I use mold resistent white bathroom silicone). It's not a fish tank. I use 45mm chipboard screws in a 6 guage and drill a hole using a drill bit that is the same thickness as the scews core diamiter.

It's cheaper to work with 2400x1200 sheets and if you want perfectly square cuts and accurate measurements pay to have it machined on a table saw. If near enough is close enough get it done for free on the wall saw.


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## Caveman (Aug 27, 2005)

That's 7 guage screws sorry. One more thing that will make things much easier is to buy a couple of 750mm clamps from bunnings. They are $14 dollars a pop for cheapies.


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## The Rock (Aug 28, 2005)

PVA glue is water solubile so its not as good as non- toxic silaflex. And over time the bead of silaflex around edges etc tends to come away letting moisture thru to swell melamine if PVA is used. On the other hand if non-toxic silaflex is put between joins, with the formica type surface roughed up with course sand paper the joins will remain water proof indefinately without the need to seal afterwards.
I use suff that can be used on fish tanks because it is animal safe once cured, some of the others are not so I dont like to take the risk.


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## JunglePython (Aug 28, 2005)

I joined the last melamine cages I built with chipboard screws and then 
sealed the inside edges with super glue. Superglue is acrylic and so once 
hardened should be fine for the animals and will not come away like silicone does.

So far this has worked great. Just remember to use superglue BEFORE you install fittings or glass. Otherwise superglue covered fingerprints will 
show up evrywhere.

I also use HMR melamine.


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## peterescue (Aug 28, 2005)

Why I dont use liquid nails.
It dries hard and brittle and has no tensile strength. As it ages these aspects become more acute.
It will crack if your enclosure takes a knock.
Yes PVA is water soluble in its liquid form but when it sets it is no longer. 
But, if you wish to use Sikaflex as the glue by all means do. 
Fullerprene is also good. They do not set hard and have some(minute) movement so the join doesnt break). 
When sealing you should wipe the joins doun with metho to remove any oily residue. This will negate any minor gaps. Sanding the malamine surface will create a capillary action beneath the sealant and allow moisture through over time. That could be why yours comes off Rock.
When smoothing the sealant down dip yor finger in water to stop it sticking to you. 
Most of the sealants will be inert once set so aquarium sealant isnt really necessary. The reason its necessary in aquariums is because its in constant contact with the water but if you want to go the extra yard no one will think badly of you.


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## The Rock (Aug 28, 2005)

It only seems to come off where it hasnt been sanded?, every cabinet maker, joiner, builder Ive spoken to have all said that PVA when cured will disolve if it gets to wet,?


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## peterescue (Aug 28, 2005)

Yeah, your right, PVA isnt completely water proof but it takes a lot to disolve it. Ive used it in all three of those pursuits professionally, both white and yellow, and unless it is exposed to the weather i would use it.
There have been some better suggestions though and I would go with those in building an enclosure.

Whatever you use rememeber that heating and cooling will expand and contract areas of the enclosure so you want a glue and sealant that allows for this movement.


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## herptrader (Aug 29, 2005)

Liquid nails is cheap and very useful for all sorts of things but I would not use it on particle board melamine.

I have built quite a number of melamine enclosures and am very happy with the old glue and screw technique. 

For glue I use "yellow" PVA glue which is more water resistant and sandable than the white stuff... and it is only fractionally more expensive. Because PVA glues go on as a liqud it penetrates the chipboard to improve the bond strength and it is easy to get a good coating.

For "T" joins I would consider routing a shallow rebate which exposes the chipboard for the glue to bond to and adds strength.

To seal I have never had a problem using a bead of white silicone. It tends to be runnier than the clear stuff and the bead is easily worked into the corners with a finger and trimed with a blade or sharp chisel.

For the iron on edging see if you can buy a roll of the stuff it works out a lot cheaper than random lengths. Also keep out an eye for an old iron that does not have steam holes. These are great for applying the edging (and for waxing the old snow board). To trim I got a cheap trimming tool but to get the perfect edge nothing beats a sharp chisel. A fine grade sand paper takes the sharpness away which can sometimes be enough to cut you (or your animals).

Polish the melamine with any cheap furniture polish to bring it to life.

One last tip - a little bit of sealing white paint does wonders to hide then inevitable chips.


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 29, 2005)

congo_python said:


> bathroom silicon (mould resistant) and smooth out excess in corners to help seal interior of cage + screws.


I used to make cages commercially, and keep pythons as well... No need to glue as well as screw, no adhesive sticks effectively enough to melamine to make an engineered joint edge-to-edge. Use 55mm particle board screws (if you're using 16mm particle board), and finish the edge with white bathroom silicone (neutral cure). This has the best adhesion to melamine, and as stated is resistant to mould and discolouration. Best applied after wiping the corners out with metho or acetone to clean the surfaces. Remove all dust and dirt from the cage interior before applying the sealant too, or you'll get a nice dirty drag-line from your fingers when smoothing out.


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