# My First Removal



## trigger (Dec 11, 2008)

I got back in town a day after I finished the latest Snakehandler course and got a phone call from a local. "Can you come out and move a couple of snake in my backyard?" "They're only small, and don't look dangerous." I didn't have the money at the time for a pair of tongs so headed out with a hook and bag.

This is what I walked into

Lucky me


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## cracksinthepitch (Dec 11, 2008)

Ahh a couple of relaxed pythons, easy money for you trigger:shock:


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## Ninjaette (Dec 11, 2008)

Well done! I would have been a bit scared, just quietly. I'm a bit scared of snakes that aren't pythons... go figure?!!


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## BrownHash (Dec 11, 2008)

It could have been worse. They could have been wedged in behind a washing machine or something.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Dec 11, 2008)

so did you just get that one or did you get the couple of small non dangerous looking ones aswell :lol:


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## ecosnake (Dec 11, 2008)

tongs are barbaric if you have no idea how to use them, I don’t use tongs when I catch snakes nor do I use a hook either…I prefer the pinning down and grabbing behind the head method. Good on you trigger considering the snake you were up against.

P.S bugger using a hook with a nasty brown snake it would end up around your ears before you knew it...lol


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## ihaveherps (Dec 11, 2008)

kicking.... honestly, a hook and a bag is all you need... they put you in the firing line for less time than standing there lining up a set of tongs and are much more forgiving in regards to error, sure tongs have their place, but are by no means the be and end all of hot handling.


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## tan (Dec 11, 2008)

Nothing like a bit of deep end therapy to get you started. My second was a cranky eb caught in a fishing net. Tricky tricky. Well done.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 11, 2008)

Well done trigger,
Did they give you much trouble?


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## aliveandkicking (Dec 11, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> kicking.... honestly, a hook and a bag is all you need... they put you in the firing line for less time than standing there lining up a set of tongs and are much more forgiving in regards to error, sure tongs have their place, but are by no means the be and end all of hot handling.


 

I know mate, I only have hooks........ but Scared Duck's call was a little but 'ow's ya father....

Nasty comments toward someone who only wanted to share what was for them an exciting experience.


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## trigger (Dec 11, 2008)

Both browns were sitting next to a rat hole by the concrete slab and when I approached they ducked in the hole like lightning. I'm arranging for a front end loader to lift the slab so I can get at them. I realize tongs aren't the greatest but they sure beat the property owners 12 gauge which was aimed in my general direction. I managed to talk the owner into buying some snake and mouse mesh to put around his property. Also learning to hook on browns is a bit rich. I'd like to get a bit of experience up first. Will let you know how I go.


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## ecosnake (Dec 11, 2008)

trigger said:


> Both browns were sitting next to a rat hole by the concrete slab and when I approached they ducked in the hole like lightning. I'm arranging for a front end loader to lift the slab so I can get at them. I realize tongs aren't the greatest but they sure beat the property owners 12 gauge which was aimed in my general direction. I managed to talk the owner into buying some snake and mouse mesh to put around his property. Also learning to hook on browns is a bit rich. I'd like to get a bit of experience up first. Will let you know how I go.


 

Mate even the most experienced catchers will not waste the time trying to hook Browns, specially up here in Brisbane, *Brown + 40 degree day = put ya hooks away LOL* but I take my hat off too you for having a go..


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## Serpentes_15 (Dec 11, 2008)

Lucky you. Dealing with them for your first relocation. :lol::lol::lol:

hope all goes well.


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## ClareB (Dec 11, 2008)

Wow definately not something I could ever do. Congrats and good luck!


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## the.badger (Dec 11, 2008)

Well done, and bugger that!


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## slither (Dec 11, 2008)

congrats mate you have done well for ure first catch


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## Leezel73 (Dec 11, 2008)

Congrats!!!


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## swaddo (Dec 11, 2008)

haha, browns on the first go ... damn! good on ya for having a crack at it mate.


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## LullabyLizard (Dec 12, 2008)

Its lucky that you had to pick up a lovely placid python, instead of a deadly brown!! :lol:


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## m_beardie (Dec 12, 2008)

at least you has some harmless snakes on the first go. lol no deadly ones


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## snakehandler (Dec 12, 2008)

Every job is different, each technique has its down fall....just imagine you have been pinned to the ground by the back of your head, then grabbed behind the jaw and lifted off the ground....try that down the pub next time....and let me know how it goes. Modern tongs (Gentle Giants and M1's) are designed for the animal safety the old pilstrum tongs are designed to pick up rubbish, not snakes. These pieces of equipment are used by professional herpetologists such as Dr. Bryan Fry, Mark O'Shea, Donald Schultz, Dr. Wolfgang Wuster and Dr. Sean Bush, given that snakes are their livelihood they consider animal welfare in actions that they take. 

The use of tongs is only one method amongst several available, I have seen people attempt to hook a hot snake and have it go nuts, snakes come straight back when tailing, and others spin in a persons grip as they have pinned them, these were all seasoned snake catchers, no technique is perfect, but what is important is a persons ability to assess a situation and choose the technique for the situation.


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## Eiroc (Dec 12, 2008)

Readers don't have all the information about a situation that has been posted (or your future tonges or catching methods in this case), so pay no attention to their useless "one liner" negative posts.

They are some good pics for a field shot and we appreciate you posting them Trigger!


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## nvenm8 (Dec 12, 2008)

ecosnake said:


> P.S bugger using a hook with a nasty ****d brown snake it would end up around your ears before you knew it...lol





Rubbish!!!


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## dragon170 (Dec 12, 2008)

Good on you trigger I did the course with you but haven't had a chance to relocate anything yet. Glad everything went well with your first relocation will send you photo's from the weekend when I get a chance. keep up the good work


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## snakehandler (Dec 12, 2008)

nvenm8, nice photos, but this can be shown for each and every technique as they will all work with different snakes, what is essential is being able to use a variety of techniques in case your chosen favorite technique does not work this time. On a recent course we had a person trained by another organisation to hook a snake and has been catching snakes for over two years now, he could not get the mulga snake into the bag with this technique, he had to learn to tail as well!


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## dragon170 (Dec 12, 2008)

might I also add this bloke is not like most of us onn here does not keep snakes and is only trying to do the right thing rather thanjust killing them unlike most people. I'm sure he would rather deal with german back packers and yellow vans lol


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## -Peter (Dec 12, 2008)

First cab off the rank and you get that as the driver. Well done.


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## wizz (Dec 12, 2008)

lots of fun *40 degree days ..............*


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## snakehandler (Dec 12, 2008)

Also remember the "bondi rescue" episode where a "trained" snake catcher was attempting to hook a hot red belly....made it look so difficult and took so long! tailing it would have been quicker and less stressful for the snake, general public and the novice handler.


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## shlanger (Dec 12, 2008)

*Snake removal*

I used to do snake removal locally, getting 'a bit long in the tooth', so leave it for the young-uns these days. One time I was called to remove a large copperhead from under a wardrobe in a concrete floored bungalow. Some one had called the cops. So, whilst I was hooking the snake out, theres this cop with a pump-action shotty standing at the door, saying "I'll back you up mate"! I'll be right mate", says me, "I've done this before" The one thing I didn' need at the time, was a nervous copper with a 12g backing me up! (Imagine!)Hooked snake out, tailed it and dropped it into catch bag. "Gee, you made that look easy"!
says he, unloading 12g! I stopped shaking (not from fear of the snake, believe me!) got paid, went home, releasing snake at local swamp on the way.


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## shlanger (Dec 12, 2008)

*Snake removal*

I taught myself snake handling, the hard way, got scars to prove it!


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## -Peter (Dec 12, 2008)

snakehandler said:


> Also remember the "bondi rescue" episode where a "trained" snake catcher was attempting to hook a hot red belly....made it look so difficult and took so long! tailing it would have been quicker and less stressful for the snake, general public and the novice handler.



Actually she wasn't trying to hook it, she was trying to get it into a position where she could tail it. Which she eventually did. It wasn't that hot a day though not cool by any means. It was also the first time she had been called out and she was really nervous and had a camera crew filming her every move and a crowd of onlookers. I encouraged her to do the rescue. She isn't a herp person and at the training course was able to bag browns but seemed to have a pathological barrier when it came to rbbs.


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## snakehandler (Dec 12, 2008)

The footage only showed her trying to hook it....my point was not at her skill but at the technique used as it seemed that she was trying to hook it into the bag.....first snake job or not doesnt really matter, the point is that every technique has its flaws!


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## Pandora Pythons (Dec 13, 2008)

-Peter said:


> Actually she wasn't trying to hook it, she was trying to get it into a position where she could tail it. Which she eventually did. It wasn't that hot a day though not cool by any means. It was also the first time she had been called out and she was really nervous and had a camera crew filming her every move and a crowd of onlookers. I encouraged her to do the rescue. She isn't a herp person and at the training course was able to bag browns but seemed to have a pathological barrier when it came to rbbs.


 

Hey guys, is there is a link to this Bondi Rescue footage? Be really interested to see it as I've recently done a relocation course also.


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

nvenm8 said:


> Rubbish!!!


 


Well your very lucky to get a placid Brown snake they do come around once and awhile, and how long were you messing around with it, probably puffed it out before you took the photos'.

Cheers


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## Egernia (Dec 13, 2008)

I agree that there is not really a correct or incorrect way to catch a snake - within reason of course!

Handling snakes in a husbandry situation and removing snakes from people's backyards are two entirely different things and if you tried to use only one technique or only one tool then you would likely get bitten. You need to adapt to the situation, the snake, and the environmental conditions.

Personally I prefer tailing but when a snake is inside an engine or some such then pinning becomes the option of choice.

From the pics that the original poster posted here I would say tailing would be my likely course of action assuming that you could grab the tail before it disappears down the hole. Hoop bag in the left hand, face open to the snake, and low down to the ground. Hook in my right hand or close by. Grab the tail, snake rears back to attack, and ends up going head first into the bag. Job done.

Regarding inexperienced snake handlers and newbies - well they have to get a start somewhere so you can't really fault them for not looking professional provided that they get the snake in the bag without anyone getting bitten. If they do that then they have achieved everyones aim.

Hopefully these snake handling courses teach self regulation to their participants so that new handlers feel confident enough to walk away from a situation they do not feel comfortable with. Personally I don't think anyone should be trying to catch a brown or tiger snake unless they have a deal of experience catching blacks and even tree snakes without getting bitten. But in the real world they may not have the choice.

Do these snake handling courses give participants a list of contact information for other snake catchers in their areas? If not I think that they should so that newbies could refer calls received for brown snakes etc onto someone else until they are ready to start doing them.


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## Egernia (Dec 13, 2008)

Micool I know where you are coming from. Some snake catchers talk about bites like they are notches on a bedpost, but to be honest the guy who has never been tagged is probably the best snake catcher I would think.

Like most things in life wanting to do something does not mean that you can do it.

Catching snakes well takes talent. I am not talking about an unattainable nor elite talent here, just an inherent ability to be able to read each situation quickly and to understand the limits of the snake and of yourself.

While the techniques can be taught, unless you have 'the knack' then I just do not believe that snake catching is for everyone.

It seems to me that some of these snake catching courses may be not a lot more than revenue raising efforts for those that run them. I am pro-business and have no problem with people making a living out of providing these courses, but I am concerned that there are likely people who feel empowered by doing a course but that should probably not be out trying to catch snakes!

What exactly do these courses give you? I understand that they give you advice and an opportunity to get hands on, but are they considered by wildlife authorities in regards to licencing for removal? If not, then why do people pay for these courses?


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

In most too many armchair snake catchers with opinions larger than their experience (no I aint pointing the finger at anyone really I am not J). Bagging courses or people that run them isnt very productive, nor is saying you can hook a wild brown snake this isnt very sound advice, specially to the newbie eager snake catchers. There are number of seasoned catchers, I have been around as a catcher in SEQLD for 16 years now, and I know what is best for me only, but may not be best for another I understand that. for catchers down south who deal with tigers, I would listen to what they had to say before started catching tigers as they have more experience than me, up here where 70% of what I catch are brown snake (between September 2007 till now I have 97 brown snakes on record) I would think my experienced would be heard and not contested with silly remarks like “rubbish”. I would love those how contest to come and tackle a 6 foot (well any sized actually) brown Snake on a 40 degree day with a hook, I will ring the hospital and get the anti venom ready for you.


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

Oh and about the bites, I have never been biten by a snake while catching on the job, when I was 18 years old, I stupidly was biten by an adder....its not cool to be biten its bloody stupid and careless


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## cockney red (Dec 13, 2008)

ecosnake said:


> In most too many armchair snake catchers with opinions larger than their experience (no I aint pointing the finger at anyone really I am not J). Bagging courses or people that run them isnt very productive, nor is saying you can hook a wild brown snake this isnt very sound advice, specially to the newbie eager snake catchers. There are number of seasoned catchers, I have been around as a catcher in SEQLD for 16 years now, and I know what is best for me only, but may not be best for another I understand that. for catchers down south who deal with tigers, I would listen to what they had to say before started catching tigers as they have more experience than me, up here where 70% of what I catch are brown snake (between September 2007 till now I have 97 brown snakes on record) I would think my experienced would be heard and not contested with silly remarks like “rubbish”. I would love those how contest to come and tackle a 6 foot (well any sized actually) brown Snake on a 40 degree day with a hook, I will ring the hospital and get the anti venom ready for you.


Its about when to take the snake as much as how. You can tail any snake as long as you have the upper hand, and the head is going away. Hook, hand , bag, done. Good hand to eye coordination is a must, and as said, picking the moment, is all important. Not for everybody, and one day, a slight misjudgement could cost anyone a hit. Black Snake, on a 26 degree day is like lightning.


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## waruikazi (Dec 13, 2008)

cockney red said:


> Its about when to take the snake as much as how. You can tail any snake as long as you have the upper hand, and the head is going away. Hook, hand , bag, done. Good hand to eye coordination is a must, and as said, picking the moment, is all important. Not for everybody, and one day, a slight misjudgement could cost anyone a hit. Black Snake, on a 26 degree day is like lightning.



You can only tail when you can find the tail, if it's backed itself into a corner there's little chance of finding it. Then weird things can happen even if you do find the tail, i was once trying to get a grip on a gwardar that was in shed, first the shed started coming off and it was slipping out of my hands, than all the oil from under the skin made things really difficult for me.


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## andyscott (Dec 13, 2008)

sacred_DUC said:


> why the hell would u need a pair of barbaric tongs learn to hook or hand back your permit


 

I take it you have zero experiance handling vens sacred-DUC.

Yes hooks are the prefured method for most captures.
When Im handling vens, I would use a hook 95% of the time but have you ever had a 6 foot angry Brown on a hook?
I have and they are one of only a few snakes that you never have 100% control over on a hook.

In a confined area, with their agility and speed sometimes tongs are needed.
Id prefure a trained snake handler with tongs over a scared home owner with a shovel.

After all it is the catchers safety that comes 1st
Well done Trigger, hope this is the 1st of many safe captures and relocations.


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## waruikazi (Dec 13, 2008)

Righto, i'm not sure what the problem was earlier but here's another go. 

There is nothing wrong with using tongs under the right circumstances and IF they have been modified correctly. The right circumstances are, amongst others, when it is either a spastic little critter or you can't find the tail. To modify tongs properly you need to put padding on them so that if you put your finger in them and squeeze as hard as you can you don't feel any pain. Best materials i found to do this is foam padding and heat shrink. This is the best picture i have that shows this







Courtesy NT news.


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## m.punja (Dec 13, 2008)

Great pics and nice snakes. Hope all goes well for you and the snakes. How big were they roughly? Wonder if they were breeding or would it be too late in the season? I don't think a snakes attention spand is real long so if you stick around they might come back out of their own without you having to lift the concrete. There is a clip on youtube of a gold coast snake catcher who went to a location where are brown snake had been coming out to bask every fifteen minutes, he just waited paitently and it came out and he pined and baged it. All the best, let us know how it goes.


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

Those tonge are not so bad, alot of people that have an issue with tongues, it comes from way back when the first tongues started to arrive in Australia they could damage a snakes very easily, and offent associated with the rattlesnake round up in the state, but the ones you can get now a days are not that bad at all


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## waruikazi (Dec 13, 2008)

ecosnake said:


> Those tonge are not so bad, alot of people that have an issue with tongues, it comes from way back when the first tongues started to arrive in Australia they could damage a snakes very easily, and offent associated with the rattlesnake round up in the state, but the ones you can get now a days are not that bad at all



IMO even the ones you get now need to be modified for the snakes safety.


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

I cant recall, but theres a mob inTassie that do a very snake friendly tongue.......their name will come to me again, they costly but good....Raptor tongues or something like that.


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## ecosnake (Dec 13, 2008)

I knew I would find them....if I was going to use tongs this is what I would use....

http://www.gondwanastudios.com/raptor


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## m.punja (Dec 13, 2008)

i have a mate that uses that pinning stick and it works a treat


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## elapid66 (Dec 13, 2008)

personly i would perfer the leather strap on the tongs to be wider and the base and the strap on the pinner to be wider and made of leather not lylon otherwise there good but hey thats just me


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## elapid68 (Dec 14, 2008)

Micool said:


> As for "snakehandler", my recall is that Simon Watharow got chomped by a Tiger at the Melbourne show a few years back and carted off to hopsital.
> After that he sold the business name to "snakehandler' who posts here and that means neither of you two have perfect safety records.
> quote]
> 
> I too am fairly certain it wasn't Simon who got tagged at the show. I know of one handler at the show a few years back who was tagged but I'm pretty sure it was by a Mulga not a Tiger.


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## zulu (Dec 14, 2008)

*re My*

Best of luck trigger,just a bugger your catching snakes where theres plenty of browns,and you will find out there is browns and theres browns.Theres your standard 4 to five ft type and then theres the dirty filthy big giant type around 6 to 7 ft and they stand up chomping and going forward at you,Ha Ha any one silly enough to catch them needs a hero award :lol:
Make sure you put them in bags with no holes,a catcher gave me two average size browns to let go,they escaped in the car and i was on the side of the road trying to flush them from under the seats,that was fun.


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## m.punja (Dec 14, 2008)

zulu said:


> Best of luck trigger,just a bugger your catching snakes where theres plenty of browns,and you will find out there is browns and theres browns.Theres your standard 4 to five ft type and then theres the dirty filthy big giant type around 6 to 7 ft and they stand up chomping and going forward at you,Ha Ha any one silly enough to catch them needs a hero award :lol:
> Make sure you put them in bags with no holes,a catcher gave me two average size browns to let go,they escaped in the car and i was on the side of the road trying to flush them from under the seats,that was fun.


 
well that story will have me laughing for the rest of the day. Nice one. I had to get a brown out of my gf's parents place the other day, it did something new for me. It reared up in the typical s position, opened it's mought, then instead of striking it just slithered toward me like it suddenly new it was too far away, it kept its position and still had it's mouth open it was just use it's lower body to slither toward me.


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## timpye1 (Dec 14, 2008)

yeah ive had that too m.punja.. it looks quite impressive.. all we get here is browns really.


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## zulu (Dec 14, 2008)

*My*



m.punja said:


> well that story will have me laughing for the rest of the day. Nice one. I had to get a brown out of my gf's parents place the other day, it did something new for me. It reared up in the typical s position, opened it's mought, then instead of striking it just slithered toward me like it suddenly new it was too far away, it kept its position and still had it's mouth open it was just use it's lower body to slither toward me.



Yeh punj,i grabbed a humongous brown near penrith that was laying in kikuya grass in an isolated area near the nepean river,when my arm was in the air high it came right up close with its head i didnt realize how big it was,which would be over 6ft.I dropped the thing and it stood its ground with the head high off the ground in an S and clamping its jaws,then would come forward like you described,eventually it went under a big slab of concrete that was towards the back of where i was standing.You couldnt teach the size and aggro of these big browns you just have to experience it,catching them is an occupational health and safety thing these days and one would err to the safest possible method for the catcher first.Never used tongs but if they was padded may be alright,mainly a jigger was used if i had one available at the time.


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## Nodrog (Dec 14, 2008)

Ain't it sad that we go from trigger bieng very happy / sad about the first catch he has to do (i say sad cause i bet you were expecting pythons) to people trying to discredit snakecatchers when they obviously don't have the proof to back it up. A post that made people think and laugh at the photos (of the so called pythons) talks about how wrong people are or ain't. Trigger i feel for you i wish that was me out there i am still trying to see my first wild snake in over 5 years. You bieng out there means that tomorrow or the next day some snake won"t become victim to a shovel> anyway you can catch and release without to much stress is fine to proberly 90% of the people here.... Thank you for taking the time to do this....


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## Pandora Pythons (Dec 14, 2008)

Well said Nodrog


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## moosenoose (Dec 14, 2008)

Good for you for doing what you can to save such amazing animals! If only THEY knew what we as human beings were trying to do in an attempt to save them, we'd have the perfect scenario!

I'm a firm believer in this: If you don't read the snake in the way you have to handle/or approach it, you're going to get bitten (or severely risk a bite)! They are faster than us (guaranteed!), and in regards to a human approaching a snake, they are certainly more scared than us! 100% of the time, no argument! 

Our best defence on actually tailing a snake (in my mind) is that you can bank on the fact that "most times" they are too scared to turn around and have a go. Eastern browns and taipans seem to rank up there on the top shelf of snakes who'll "bite rather than wonder"- both spook the hell outta me! Fast, alert, intelligent! You've done well! Play it safe!


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## rockman (Dec 15, 2008)

Jonno Lucs, didn't you get pinned by an adder when doing a course recently and then stopped the course to go to hospital?

HA HA HA , GOLD . 

I think it was called " RISK MINIMISATION " .

Cheers


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## waruikazi (Dec 15, 2008)

moosenoose said:


> Eastern browns and taipans seem to rank up there on the top shelf of snakes who'll "bite rather than wonder"- both spook the hell outta me! Fast, alert, intelligent! You've done well! Play it safe!



And Mulgas!


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## snakehandler (Dec 15, 2008)

They all like to keep you on your toes!


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## eracer (Jan 10, 2011)

This has been an interesting thread to read. The way we get fired up about what we do and how we do it is a credit to our passion. Each to his own I say: just stay away from the pointy end. 

When teaching venomous snake relocation courses in WA we dont/arent allowed to teach people to tail. Personally, although I am super pro tailing, I basically teach my trainees hook and bag and encourage them to develop their skill with tailing over time.

This is a win win as I dont have the liability of putting the trainee in direct physical contact with the snake, the trainee gets the basics, and then the trainee can decide if he or she wants to further develop their skills. 

Only as recently as two weeks ago I took three of my old trainees (did their course early last year and have done a full season of relocs) to a reptile park to do some cleaning and watched them develop their tailing skills in a 'safer' environment. It was mega rewarding.

INTERESTING that the one thing noone has mentioned here is that no matter what technique you are using, if you cant get the snake in bag safely without putting yourself in danger, sometimes you may just have to choose to walk away. It does not happen often but it can happen. Better to back off from one reloc so you survive to do another 10.


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## Jackson (Jan 10, 2011)

ecosnake said:


> Mate even the most experienced catchers will not waste the time trying to hook Browns, specially up here in Brisbane, *Brown + 40 degree day = put ya hooks away LOL* but I take my hat off too you for having a go..


 
*Trigger* first up WOW a tough start for a first timer, Browns are quick as a flash! I have caught about 6 now and they are a handful I only ever use a hook & bag as like many others beleive tongs to be prone to injure. Be wary & make sure you wear leg protection & follow SMART
*S*afeBody,clothes & area
*M*entally alert, focused & cautious
*A*lways expect the unexpected
*R*isk management-first aid & communication
*T*raining & tools -suitable for the job
No alcohol or drugs at anytime prior to catching you need to be 100% alert

Browns are a challenge just by themselves so remember if it doesn't feel right don't be afraid to back out, better to be safe than tagged!!!


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## snakehandler (Jan 10, 2011)

Eracer, its interesting to note that the issue of tailing in WA is NOT legislated or part of the regulations, it is the preference of the DEC there, we have been in discussion with them in relation to this as not being taught all relevant safe techniques is not teaching best practice. In many cases staff from mines in WA that have transferred to sites in other states cannot get onto the relocation list due to a lack of complete training, we have had many very competent people with hooks and tongs have to do a course to learn to tail before they can catch anything on sites in QLD for example (company policies not government regulations). Also we were informed by DEC that people must be taught to use a hook and tongs at the same time in WA, so how does one hold the catch bag? You would need to work as a pair....doesnt this also increase risks??

A big thing we always teach, if you cannot do the job walk away and contact someone who can, some days you are just not up to it and your family must always come first...think of how they would react should you be bitten!!


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## -Peter (Jan 10, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> A big thing we always teach, if you cannot do the job walk away and contact someone who can, some days you are just not up to it and your family must always come first...think of how they would react should you be bitten!!



Ditto, we stress this, if you dont feel you control the show then back away and reassess. It may mean walking away. We also re enforce that you are on your own and that you cannot rely on the public to assist you if you are bitten or injured, it could be just you.


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## snakehandler (Jan 10, 2011)

Peter is interesting to note though that in WA with the technique of tongs and hooks you are either working with someone or placing the snake into a bin or similar receptacle.....hopefully this means the other person is able to provide the service if you cannot!


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## eracer (Jan 10, 2011)

Yeah, I can dig out the most recent communication or directive from DEC but it is there in black and white. They had a massive shake down over here recently and I was one of a very very very select few that did not lose their licence or have to do anything differently. In my training program it specifically says I dont teach tailing. I love it but I dont teach it.


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## redbellybite (Jan 10, 2011)

I do what ever the situation at hand requires ,sometimes hook up and bag ,some times tailing is OK ...NEVER TONGS I HATE THEM ....and refuse to even enter using them ever ...been doing it now for 6 years ..even on heated up 35-40degree days in QLD with EASTERN BROWNS ...You have to know how to read the situation cause it can turn in a second and you need the common sense and skill to be able to change tactics and keep ya wits about yourself ...some people even though they have the paper work to say they are a catcher shouldnt be an active one in my books..


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jan 10, 2011)

thats all a snake needs ,a scared newby with a hook and tongs to drag it from its hiding place and half crush its ribcage in the process to dry and dump it in a bag held be some equally incompetent snake handler.
Also do they think all snakes are sitting in the middle of an open field with no obstructions around ,waiting to be caught??


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## snakehandler (Jan 11, 2011)

If a person has been trained properly then they will not do damage with the right equipment and I am sure that they companies in WA training staff would not pass a person unless they could catch a snake and cause no harm. RBB as much as you hate tongs, unless you can use them properly in some places they will not let you get a permit, its a fact of life. We have been discussing with DEC in WA why the ban on tailing, they say because of the potential harm to the snake as well as the chance it could turn and bite.....I asked them what of the potential harm with tonging, pinning and other techniques. All techniques whether you like them all not have an inherent risk to both the animal and the handler if not done properly......its a fact of life!


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## garthy (Jan 11, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> You can only tail when you can find the tail, if it's backed itself into a corner there's little chance of finding it. Then weird things can happen even if you do find the tail, i was once trying to get a grip on a gwardar that was in shed, first the shed started coming off and it was slipping out of my hands, than all the oil from under the skin made things really difficult for me.


 
This is the absolute truth!!! Not once in the ven handling (snake catching) course I completed were we faced with a cornered snake, it was all open country and great fun tailing.

To be perfectly honest, I have only tailed two snakes on hundreds of catches. the rest have been pinned, hooked, bagged or hooked and bagged. I have often found that deliberately cutting off a snakes escape route and then offering a nice dark hole (the bag) I have had to do very little handling of late.


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## -Peter (Jan 11, 2011)

Garthy, I would take a punt that the snakes that take a dive at the hidy hole of your bag a predominately browns?
This is the outcome of a technique introduced by one of our more experienced members at our last course whereby browns are bagged without tailing, tongs or pinning.


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## Wookie (Jan 11, 2011)

Seems a bit archaic refusing to use a useful tool IMO. If they are used correctly, they don't harm the snake. Pretty sure you can hurt them pinning (if done incorrectly) but nobody has spoken a word against that?


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## waruikazi (Jan 11, 2011)

Your browns are much easier than mine lol!



-Peter said:


> Garthy, I would take a punt that the snakes that take a dive at the hidy hole of your bag a predominately browns?
> This is the outcome of a technique introduced by one of our more experienced members at our last course whereby browns are bagged without tailing, tongs or pinning.


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## cement (Jan 11, 2011)

A good chippy can get great results regardless of the tools, because after enough experience your working by the _feel_, not by the book.


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## -Peter (Jan 12, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Your browns are much easier than mine lol!


I was amazed with this. Out of the ten browns we had only one wouldn't respond in the same manner and on later inspection it was noted it had a head injury.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jan 15, 2011)

> These pieces of equipment are used by professional herpetologists such as Dr. Bryan Fry, Mark O'Shea, Donald Schultz, Dr. Wolfgang Wuster and Dr. Sean Bush, given that snakes are their livelihood they consider animal welfare in actions that they take.


The thing is, the people you have mentioned have many years of experience and are knowledgable enough to know when to ease the pressure on the backbreakers (tongs) as the snake tries to get away,so the snake can remain uninjured.
In the hands of a novice with limited experience and a days training, who has just gotten a relocaters licence so he can make money, well, i pity the snakes that are caught by these guys as their days are surely numbered. 
Baz


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## snake79 (Jan 15, 2011)

Good on ya mate i find when i catch snakes everyone is different and it's not something that can be taught have to have a feel for it and a passion for wanting to save the snakes.My method is simply this if it is a black snake of some kind i will use the hook and tailing method and sometimes just tail it but if it's a brown/taipan or another type of elapid that can come up their body fast i'll just pin it behind the head or 2thirds down it's body and soz to say this folks use my tongs.I've got them padded so they wont hurt the snake thanks to david's advice when i first started out back in dalby he's from reedys reptiles up in katherine NT.I've never had a problem doing it this way,but my first callout of an eastern brown all i had was my hook and catching bag that was it managed to coaxe it into the bag with the hook after it struck at me 5times lol.But yeah good luck hey glad we have another snake catcher out there saving the wildlife


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## damian83 (Jan 15, 2011)

ecosnake said:


> tongs are barbaric if you have no idea how to use them, I don’t use tongs when I catch snakes nor do I use a hook either…I prefer the pinning down and grabbing behind the head method. Good on you trigger considering the snake you were up against.
> 
> P.S bugger using a hook with a nasty brown snake it would end up around your ears before you knew it...lol


 

i was taught that pinning behind the head and grab behind the jaws too
i only did a small sorta course at uni, not even sure why, maybe ecology
but it was definatly a safer way to pick up brown trees and small red bellies etc


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## Tanzen (Jan 16, 2011)

*Every snake catch is case by case. it's not the tools but the handler behind them*. I don't use them until I have to as I prefer not to stress the snake further. I don't believe these courses are adequate for the real world of snake catching, so well done on bagging the snakes. I've been relocating 20yrs on Brisbanes West and South side. Currently where I live every 2nd or 3rd call is an eastern brown.


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## snakehandler (Jan 16, 2011)

Before we jump up and down about one technique lets look at the whole picture:
Tongs: Potential to cause rib damage, internal bleeding and crush injuries
Pinning: Potential to cause spinal damage, internal bleeding, crush injuries and head injuries
Tailing: Potential to cause tail dislocation, spinal injuries
Hooking: Potential to cause minor rib injuries, punctured organs, internal bleeding, lack of control

Each technique has inherent risks to both the animal and the handler, yet people only comment on tongs....I know for a fact a well know TV personality has killed several snakes while attempting to pin and injured several more...that was on just one shoot....the technique you choose to use is up to you and the situation you are in......no single technique will work every time and only experience makes you better.

Many people commenting here have years of experience...and how do you get it....go out and catch them, but wait, people are saying NO dont do snake catching until you have more experience....where is this going to come from? With an increasing awareness of our reptiles there is a greater demand for people to relocate them. 

From my own experience training people, most of them walk out wanting to either tail or hook, but they have learnt other techniques too, just in case they need them, very few want to use tongs unless they need to and this is usually dictated by the OH&S for their sites or by the government in that state. At least these people are learning how to work safely with the animals and are wanting to move them...rather than learn the age old technique of shoveling!


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## snake79 (Jan 16, 2011)

So true hey it really doesn't matter on the technique it's the fact that you're saving the snake's lives


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## snakehandler (Jan 17, 2011)

And that the snake, handler and public are kept safe at all times!


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## redbellybite (Jan 17, 2011)

I dont know how you train to hook ,but I only use my hook to allow the snake to slide up,it uses its own body weight to rest there whilst I grasp the tail and then before it even knows its in my bag ...I cant see how any injury can happen using this way ..I have caught plenty of firey eastern browns and very active red bellied blacks this way ..even tailing is done quick and in the bag ...I do agree about pinning and really try and never use this way unless I have no other method to use ,and in almost 6 years I have only ever used it twice both on eastern browns ,one was caught up in old carpet and one had been attacked by a shovel and was severly injured...TONGS well you already know my views on that subject so we wont go there


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## snakehandler (Jan 17, 2011)

My point is simple, all techniques carry inherent risks and if a person knows the risks then they are able to make a decision for themselves as to how to approach the situation, and just because a vocal group dont like a technique, does not make it inappropriate for the situation that the snake catcher finds themselves in........unless you are actually there then all you can do is guess at what the full picture is......people shouldn't be bullied into favoring one technique, they should be allowed to make their own mind up!


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