# Can Rspca do anything?



## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

I was staying at my brothers flat on the weekend in ALbury, they own 2 cats one adult male who is desexed and one female kitten. Both cats stay indoors 24/7 are the most loved and spoiled cats ever, the male is occasionally allowed outside to sniff around only while supervised, the kitten is just too hard to catch at the moment hehe

Anyway, the neigbour flat had about 4 or more adult cats, and about 10 or so kittens running around. They are obviously just left to breed whenever, because the kittens are different ages, some bigger some only weeks old. They are kept outside and roam around freely.

When i got up one morning and went outside, there was feathers all over the lawn, and it looked like about 3 birds had been killed.
I told my brother he should call the rspca or someone, and he said they have called them heaps of times and they wont/cant do anything.

Its getting rediculous with these cats, who would you call? Can anything be done about this at all?


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## xScarlettex (Dec 30, 2008)

you could try the local council but dont hold your breath for them to do anything, i dont see why the rspca wont do anything, i thought that was their job, but as long as all the cats are healthy and have access to all their essentials then they wouldnt consider it a problem, whether theyre killing the birds or not


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

I would say the RSPCA is restricted in what they can do and it's probably more a council issue. 

I've recently been in touch with the RSPCA in relation to my mother's neighbours. They have about 16 guinea pigs running freely in their front yard and they roam all down the street. The RSPCA did go out and speak to the people and they started keeping them in their enclosures for a few days but then they were out again the following week. 

I again sent in an email about it and I was contacted by one of the inspectors who told me that there is nothing more they can do. The legislation only states that they must be provided with shelter, food and water and they technically are doing this, but there is no where in the legislation that says they must be locked in their enclosure. The inspector reported them to the council in regards to animal control issues, and advised as to do the same.

Most councils have a law on how many cats can be kept on a property and you might find you get better results reporting them to the council.


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## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.



Wow really??? I didnt know that!
I dont think my brother would be able to do it, he owns 2 cats with his girlfriend and ive never seen cats soo spoilt. He wouldnt hurt these cats, i couldnt do it either. Its not the cats fault, its the owners.


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## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks Jewly, ill let him know. I dont know if hes tried the council yet or not, i think hes only called RSPCA


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

One very important thing to remember is that euthanise does not constitute "hurting" the animal. When done properly, there is no pain or stress involved, so it really is the perfect option. By not euthanising the cats, he is in effect allowing the cruel slaughter of native animals...I know which one sits better with me.


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

I think a lot of people think the RSPCA aren't doing their jobs a lot of the time but they have to abide by the law. Afterall, if people won't listen to advice about how to care for animals, then the next step is to prosecute them, but they can't do that if they're technically not breaking any law. It's just a shame that it's not legal to capture some owners and euthanise them.


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> One very important thing to remember is that euthanise does not constitute "hurting" the animal. When done properly, there is no pain or stress involved, so it really is the perfect option. By not euthanising the cats, he is in effect allowing the cruel slaughter of native animals...I know which one sits better with me.


 

It's only perfect for people who hate cats. They are other ways of handling the situation than going around killing your neighbour's pets just because you don't agree with what they're doing.

Maybe your brother could start up a little 'kitty relocation program'. :lol:


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## Brigsy (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.


 

Wish i knew this at 2 this morn. we keep getting this cat from down the street somewhere stirring our dogs up all night everynight. Pest control guy said that is where our flea prob is from too cause it will be going through every yard in the street bringing them with it.


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## Retic (Dec 30, 2008)

To be honest I'm sick to death of hearing how it isn't the poor cats fault it's the owners. The owners don't go out and kill every native animal they can find, if the owners wont do anything about it then it is up to us to do it. I don't really dislike cats as an animal but I dislike what they are allowed to do here, no-one seems to be concerned about the poor old Cane Toad when they are thrown into the freezer, what's the difference ?


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## JasonL (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.



Are you sure? Years ago when I used to do some shooting, they had to be at least 1000 meters from a occupied premise to be considered feral ( and shootable). I couldn't imagine it to be legal to kill any cat you see outside.


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## MoreliaMatt (Dec 30, 2008)

how come if your dog jumps the fence it gets taken to the pound and you are fined and have to pay to get the dog out.... why arent people out there catching cats and taking them to the pound?


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## Nagraj (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.




I would be very surprised if that is true. Do you have a reference for it? It is certainly not mentioned in the Victorian Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act.



23. Dogs and cats on private property without permission

(1) If a dog or cat has been present on private property on more than one
occasion without the permission of the owner or occupier of the property, the
owner or occupier of private property or an authorised officer may seize the
dog or cat while it is present on the property.

(2) The owner or occupier of the private property or the authorised officer
who has seized a dog or cat under subsection (1) must immediately so notify
the Council of the municipal district in which the property is situated.

(3) If the authorised officer who seized a dog or cat under subsection (1) is
able to identify the owner of the dog or cat, the authorised officer must,
within 5 business days after the seizure of the dog or cat, serve on the owner
of the dog or cat a notice of objection to the presence of that dog or cat on
the private property.

(4) If, after a notice under subsection (3) has been served, the dog or cat
enters or remains on the private property, the owner of the dog or cat is
guilty of an offence and liable to a penalty of not more than 1 penalty unit
for a first offence, and 3 penalty units for a second or subsequent offence.

(5) A notice under subsection (3) must be served either personally or by
registered post.


25. Cats found at large



(1) If a cat is found at large outside the premises of the owner or not
securely confined to the owner's premises, in a municipal district or a
specified part of a municipal district in respect of which an order under this
section has been made, during the hours specified in the order, the owner is
guilty of an offence and liable to a penalty of not more than 1 penalty unit
for a first offence and 3 penalty units for a second or subsequent offence.

(2) A Council may, by resolution, make an order under this section.



(3) An order made by a Council under this section must be published in the
Government Gazette and in a newspaper circulating in the municipal district of
the Council making the order.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Dec 30, 2008)

I would call, but sometimes, the rspca just be tools.

Call the local council or something like that, or confront their owners and tell them to be responsible with their pets.

I think the rspca could issue a warning or/and fine, but im not sure....


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

Don't know too many people who have pet can toads, so yeah there is a big difference.


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## Nagraj (Dec 30, 2008)

Jewly said:


> I think a lot of people think the RSPCA aren't doing their jobs




It's a council job not an RSPCA job.


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

It is the RSPCA's job to ensure animals are being kept in humane conditions and cared for well and usually you find anyone who is that irresponsible with their animals isn't looking after them properly.


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## sigridshurte (Dec 30, 2008)

get a possum trap, (put it in your yard) and take them to the pound saying i have a feral cat


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## sigridshurte (Dec 30, 2008)

if ya wanna get through to the RSPCA say the cats have poor living conditions, are being mistreated(abused), or being deprived of food. they will jump on that (althow there has to be a real problem for them to take the cats away) they dont care how many cats someone owns as long the owner takes care of them.


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## Nagraj (Dec 30, 2008)

Jewly said:


> It is the RSPCA's job to ensure animals are being kept in humane conditions and cared for well and usually you find anyone who is that irresponsible with their animals isn't looking after them properly.





It is not the RSPCA's "job" it is a responsibility of the local govt under the animal welfare act and the RSPCA may or may not be the govt's appointed agent.


http://www.rspca.org.au/animal/emergency_cruel.asp

"The RSPCA has a dedicated and trained force of Inspectors. Whilst it will endeavour to respond to all complaints as quickly as possible please remember that the RSPCA is a non-government, community-based charity and is limited in its resources."


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## m.punja (Dec 30, 2008)

sigridshurte said:


> get a possum trap, (put it in your yard) and take them to the pound saying i have a feral cat


 

I second this motion! This is what my stepdad does. You can hire the traps from the vet or pound, however if you are like my stepdad then you'll make your own and set it up nearly every night and impound any cat that's owner wasn't careful enough to bring inside that night. However, my mum and her partner have even come across stray cats inside their house, so I think stray cat's have hit a soft spot with them. 

Catch and inpound, this is the best option for the cats. Then the council have no choice but to do their job in ensuring the cats are looked after properly. Correct me if I am wrong but if a cat/dog goes to the pound now days unregistered and not micropchipped then you have to pay to have this done before getting your pet back, so it will cost this irresponsible owner big dollars if s/he hasn't microchipped and registered his 10 odd cats that he has.


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## Jewly (Dec 30, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> It is not the RSPCA's "job" it is a responsibility of the local govt under the animal welfare act and the RSPCA may or may not be the govt's appointed agent.
> 
> 
> http://www.rspca.org.au/animal/emergency_cruel.asp
> ...


 

I beg to differ....their own mission statement states...

_To prevent cruelty to animals by actively promoting their care and protection._

They are a recognized organisation that asks for community support via donations so they can't say that and then sit back and say it's not their problem.

Someone who has so many cats obviously is not caring for them properly. I bet they aren't wormed or treated for fleas, etc.


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## Ramsayi (Dec 30, 2008)

Most local councils (maybe yours too) can supply a cat trap for problem animals.A ranger will come and collect the trap plus the caught cat leave you abother trap and take the cat to the pound.Years ago we had a neighbour across the road with heaps of semi feral cats.I ended up catching 16 of them all up over a 3 week period.


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## Dipcdame (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> One very important thing to remember is that euthanise does not constitute "hurting" the animal. When done properly, there is no pain or stress involved, so it really is the perfect option. By not euthanising the cats, he is in effect allowing the cruel slaughter of native animals...I know which one sits better with me.



What ever happened to just catching them and taking them to the local animal shelter??? At least the poor cats would have a chance, it's not their fault they are left to roam, killing the birds is just a natural instinct, they don't know the difference, it's in their nature. Trap them and take them down to the home, at least they may find kinder owners who do look after them, thay will also be desexed going through there, why should they have to die?


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## funcouple (Dec 30, 2008)

you could allways say to the rspca that the cats and kittens are in poor health, that they are really skinny. this may make them act if they think the cats are at risk


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## kakariki (Dec 30, 2008)

MoreliaMatt said:


> how come if your dog jumps the fence it gets taken to the pound and you are fined and have to pay to get the dog out.... why arent people out there catching cats and taking them to the pound?



This would be my solution. It is NOT legal to trap & kill cats unless the owner cannot be found or the cat is very clearly feral. You can & will be fined if caught. By taking the cats to the shelter, the cats have a chance of finding a new home where they will be properly cared for or put down humanely. Either way, prob solved! Councils & vets have cat traps/ possum traps for hire or lend.


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> What ever happened to just catching them and taking them to the local animal shelter??? At least the poor cats would have a chance, it's not their fault they are left to roam, killing the birds is just a natural instinct, they don't know the difference, it's in their nature. Trap them and take them down to the home, at least they may find kinder owners who do look after them, thay will also be desexed going through there, why should they have to die?



Because all of the shelters are brimming with them anyway. I would much prefer to guarantee that the cat I just caught isn't going to be harming any more wildlife than take the risk. When did you last hear of an animal shelter wanting more animals?

The information about euthanising cats on your property was given to me about 5 years ago by the RSPCA. They weren't very forthcoming with it obviously, but at the end of the day I found out that it was legal.


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## Tanzen (Dec 30, 2008)

We've hired cat /possum traps, caught roaming cats giving us grief and then the local council pound officer came and collected them . There is a type of trap with a hook to hang bait on which can impale the eyes,jaws,throat etc of the trapped animal. I urge people NOT to use this type of trap. I've been told they're illegal but still see them for sale in some places . We used one that had a pressure plate, no hook .


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## paleoherp (Dec 30, 2008)

Background
Cats are present throughout Victoria, as domestic pets, free-living strays, or as truly feral animals. Estimates in all these categories suggest that there are well over one million cats in the State.

Cats are obligate carnivores, that is, they must feed on animal protein. Each cat requires a minimum of 100-150g of protein each day, more if a female is nursing a litter. This means that an equivalent of at least seven small mammals, such as native Bush Rats, must be eaten each week by each cat.

Even cats that are well fed, apparently contented pets, will instinctively hunt and kill living creatures. An average of 32 wild animals may be killed by each pet cat every year. Each feral cat can kill many more. The potential impact on wildlife is enormous.

What impact do cats have on wildlife?
Cats are known to kill and eat more than 100 native Australian species of birds, 50 mammals, 50 reptiles, three frogs and numerous invertebrate animals. As more knowledge is obtained more animals continue to be added to the list.

Cats are a major threat to wildlife in the bush, where they are common and occur in most habitats, as well as in towns and cities. For example, in 1992, in response to a plague of native rats in south-west Queensland, where the endangered native Bilby survives, feral cat numbers were observed to be at high levels. The Australian Army was called in to assist with control and, to the amazement of wildlife managers, shot 417 cats in four days within 20 km of the Bilby site. Up to six cats were shot out of a single tree in one day! Of interest is that the high cat numbers were on a cattle station on which dingo control was rigourous. Neighbouring stations, with more dingos, had less cats. Cats can survive on water from prey in areas where drinking water is unavailable.

In Australia, cats (and dogs) have no natural predators. The hunting methods of cats are different to native predators, such as quolls, and so native wildlife has few inbuilt defences against cats.

Cats are most active at night, and especially at dusk and dawn. This coincides with the activity periods of much of our Australian wildlife, placing native animals at risk.
Cats kill prey of up to their own body size; most of Australia’s endangered and vulnerable mammals are in this size category.

Cats can significantly control bird populations. Studies in South Australia indicate that domestic cats probably kill the 'standing crop' of birds, (i.e. the same number are killed as are produced each year).

Cats are significant predators on small mammals. In 15 months one wildlife shelter in Melbourne received 272 native mammals with injuries that resulted from cat attacks; 242 of these were Common Ringtail Possums. Almost all died as a result of the attacks.

Cats have also been responsible for the death of at least 25% of all Sugar Gliders registered in the former Wildlife Management Branch (now DSE) collection.

Cat’s mouths can carry bacteria to which wildlife has little resistance, and wildlife that has been injured by cats usually dies - if not from injuries, then from infection.

Cats are the definitive host of the blood protozoan disease Toxoplasmosis which can affect wildlife, sheep and humans. It can cause unco-ordination, blindness, erratic movement and unnatural daytime activity. Toxoplasmosis is often fatal for infected wildlife. It can have effects on reproduction (the disease can cause abortion in sheep and humans). Endangered Eastern Barred Bandicoots are at threat not only through direct predation by cats but from infection with the disease. It probably predisposes affected bandicoots to predation by cats or dogs and to road trauma.

Research into the reintroduction of rare mammals onto mainland Australia has found that, when foxes are controlled, cat numbers increase, continuing the attack on native species. Similarly, because rabbit is a significant part of feral cat diet in many (especially rural) areas, rabbit control without cat control may lead to increased predation on wildlife. Hence, an integrated pest animal control program is essential.

Cats also have an indirect impact on plant pollination by reducing numbers of native birds.

Although habitat alteration and hunting are also important factors, cats have been responsible for the extinction of over 30 species of birds around the world.

Cats have been the cause of decline and extinction of many bird species on a large number of islands including New Zealand, Macquarie Island, Socorro Island (Mexico), Ascension Island, the Kermadec group, Marion Island and many others. There are also records of mammals and reptiles being similarly affected - for example the endemic rodents of the Galapagos are now only found on islands without cats, and in Western Australia at least two species of now-endangered species of marsupial (Banded Hare-wallaby and Golden Bandicoot) have become extinct on the Monte Bello Islands due to cats.

Pet cats kill an average of 16 mammals, 8 birds and 8 reptiles every year. 900 000 pet cats by 32 wildlife each per year = 29 million wildlife.

Feral cats each need to eat the equivalent of seven native bush rats or ten native birds each week. 200 000 feral cats by 10 wildlife by 52 weeks = 104 million wildlife.

Stray cats in cities kill on average 5 wildlife each week. 300 000 cats by 5 wildlife by 52 weeks = 78 million wildlife.

GRAND TOTAL = 211 million wildlife killed by cats in Victoria each year!

On farms
Toxoplasmosis in sheep, spread by cat faeces, can result in abortions, stillborn lambs, and a reduced lambing percentage. It is the most common cause of infectious abortions in sheep flocks in south-eastern Australia. Cats also carry the stock disease Sarcosporidiosis. Sarcocystis infection can result in carcase condemnation at the abattoir. Cats spread these diseases by contaminating pasture, hay and other animal foods with the parasite via their faeces. They in turn are contaminated by eating rodents, birds and wildlife which contain cysts of the parasite. Farmers who wish to avoid the risk to livestock of toxoplasmosis should not let cats near their pastures.

DEPARTMENT OF PRIMARY INDUSTRIES 
August 1999


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## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

boa said:


> To be honest I'm sick to death of hearing how it isn't the poor cats fault it's the owners. The owners don't go out and kill every native animal they can find, if the owners wont do anything about it then it is up to us to do it. I don't really dislike cats as an animal but I dislike what they are allowed to do here, no-one seems to be concerned about the poor old Cane Toad when they are thrown into the freezer, what's the difference ?



Are you serious? Of course it is the owners fault, if they were kept inside and fed properly they wouldnt be killing birds and having a bunch of kittens and we wouldnt be having this conversation.

I also dont agree with euthanising them just because they are outside


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

MzSel,

Cats kill far more than birds. It may very well be the owners fault, but not doing anything about the cats because their of their owners irresponsibility is irresponsible in itself. 

What is so wrong with euthanising roaming cats? I would much prefer to humanely euthanise a feral animal than to know that because I did nothing, a lot more native animals were kill unnecessarily.


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## horsesrule (Dec 30, 2008)

Get some cat traps set them and catch the cats then take them to the local pound, animal shelter or rspca whatever is closer. 100% LEGAL AND THE WOMAN CANT SAY SH** ABOUT IT. (IN VICTORIA NOT TO SURE ABOUT NSW)

If this woman wants her cats back she will have to go and get them from the pound, im guessing none are registered so she will have to pay a fine as well as pound fees. 

Most councils in Victoria have cat traps availble free of charge (you pay a deposit but get this back when the trap is returned)


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## Ishah (Dec 30, 2008)

I also back the motion to catch the cats and impound them! Catch them with your hands or with traps, whatever, then take them to the pound... problem solved! I would also make sure that the cats are outside/not on their (the neighbours) property when you catch them too...just to be safe/legal... I also would be more inclined to call the council/pound about your problem rather than the RSPCA...Its more of a council issue IMO... and the council can and will put them down if the problem continues...Just keep calling them til the problem is erradicated... It will work... I know people who have had similar problems like this...


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## Australis (Dec 30, 2008)

Just ring the council ranger/local law/sheriff... if the cats are actually leaving their yard
they might be able to help you... :whistle:


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## bk201 (Dec 30, 2008)

people who live behind us had about 3 adult cats they let them outside they came in our yard everyfew days we rang the rspca they said they cant do anything,6 months later there was a bunch of kittens runing around our yard from the cats again rspca cant do a thing,a year ago a dead kitten was thrown into our yard same story from rspca, now these cats r everywhere breeding under our house always in our yard harrasing my parrots,and my bacckyard is like a bird graveyard last week i had to clean up rainbow lorikeet feathers and piece from the yard...rspca wont do a thing...all cats outside of houses untied or not in cages should be collected by them and dealt with and big fines should be out for owners leting them out thosands in fines if a person kills a native reptile snake etc shouldnt the same fines apply if its the persons cat who does the crime as its there responsibility

basically rspca is either to short staffed to deal with them or they say" legally we cant help
"


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## Ishah (Dec 30, 2008)

bk201 said:


> people who live behind us had about 3 adult cats they let them outside they came in our yard everyfew days we rang the rspca they said they cant do anything,6 months later there was a bunch of kittens runing around our yard from the cats again rspca cant do a thing,a year ago a dead kitten was thrown into our yard same story from rspca, now these cats r everywhere breeding under our house always in our yard harrasing my parrots,and my bacckyard is like a bird graveyard last week i had to clean up rainbow lorikeet feathers and piece from the yard...rspca wont do a thing...all cats outside of houses untied or not in cages should be collected by them and dealt with and big fines should be out for owners leting them out thosands in fines if a person kills a native reptile snake etc shouldnt the same fines apply if its the persons cat who does the crime as its there responsibility
> 
> basically rspca is either to short staffed to deal with them or they say" legally we cant help
> "


 
Hence you call the council instead, they can and will do something about it... especially if you harrass them enough :lol:


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## cris (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Cats kill far more than birds. It may very well be the owners fault, but not doing anything about the cats because their of their owners irresponsibility is irresponsible in itself.



Its also actually technically illegal in qld (and probably other states) to let an animal in your control kill another, this would include allowing a domestic cat outside where it can kill animals. I actually got some feral kittens the other day but they had to many fleas so they wet to the tip.

As you said to start with its best just to get rid of them, if they have a collar take them to the pound.


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## Dipcdame (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> MzSel,
> 
> Cats kill far more than birds. It may very well be the owners fault, but not doing anything about the cats because their of their owners irresponsibility is irresponsible in itself.
> 
> What is so wrong with euthanising roaming cats? I would much prefer to humanely euthanise a feral animal than to know that because I did nothing, a lot more native animals were kill unnecessarily.



Ummmmm.....Who said they were ROAMING.................and these are NOT feral animals........... THEY HAVE OWNERS........................ NO-ONE has said they are roaming.................. I honestly am sick and tired of hearing from tunnel-visioned anti-cat people................. what you are advocating Jonno, is KILLING a live animal.......... isn't this what you are SUPPOSED to be against, or is one type of animal more important than another.......... please supply us with a list of what is more important than what........... what cames at the top of the list? what is at the bottom??? where do humans come in this, those who kill far more animals than ANY species?????? Should humans be trapped and euthanased too..... ALL of them, because a lot of them harm the earth, the environment, cause whole species to become EXTINCT????? ???? Should humans not be made to become extinct too????? WE kill JUST as many other animals, if more, MANY MORE!!!


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## =bECS= (Dec 30, 2008)

Dont know if this has been said already, but if they are renting...... why not the landlord?


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> Ummmmm.....Who said they were ROAMING.................and these are NOT feral animals........... THEY HAVE OWNERS........................ NO-ONE has said they are roaming.................. I honestly am sick and tired of hearing from tunnel-visioned anti-cat people................. what you are advocating Jonno, is KILLING a live animal.......... isn't this what you are SUPPOSED to be against, or is one type of animal more important than another.......... please supply us with a list of what is more important than what........... what cames at the top of the list? what is at the bottom??? where do humans come in this, those who kill far more animals than ANY species??????



G'day Dipcdame,

If they are outside, unsupervised, what else do you call it other than roaming? I don't mind cats, as long as they are responsibly looked after...I even own a cat...his name is Henry Cat 

I am definitely advocating the euthenasia of all feral animals, whether it be cats, cane toads, turtleneck doves or Red-Eared Sliders. Please don't try and demonise what I am saying by referring to it as "killing"...even though yes, we are "killing" them, the way you say it makes it sound violent and cruel. 

I am against the needless killing of *native* animals - they are most definitely more important in a conservation context than anything else. 

Again, I must point out - the humane death of a feral animal is *not* cruel. They feel no pain, they do not realise they are about to die...they simply go to sleep. I am not advocating violence or cruelty - simple effective management of feral animals.


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## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

They are renting, and im sure the landlord knows as they would have inspections?

Its not near my place, its next door to my brothers and i dont even live anywhere near there so i cant do much. I was just wondering if anything can be done, they have tried calling rspca.

Jonno- Are you trying to say that *I* am irresposible for not *killing* these cats?


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## Dipcdame (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day Dipcdame,
> 
> If they are outside, unsupervised, what else do you call it other than roaming? I don't mind cats, as long as they are responsibly looked after...I even own a cat...his name is Henry Cat
> 
> ...



This is becoming a personal thing now..... Jonno.............. these cats you speak of here ARE NOT FERAL...... THEY HAVE OWNERS...................... KILLING an animal is just that, don't try and pretty it up with a "nice" way of putting it........ you are advocating KILLING AN ANIMAL. native or not, they have a right to live, who is to say one animal SHOULD live and one SHOUDN;T?? Reptiles KILL other, lesser animals for their food, it's THEIR instinct too........... why should we say that has more worth just because they are native.............. WE are NOT native to THIS land???????? WE KILLED off the aboriginal native people of Tasmania so that now thay are extinct... a lot now KILL native animals...... snakes too.... that they can get in their gunsights...... if it moves............. KILL it................ do we euthanase them??? They won't know, they will just go to sleep with an overdose of Morpheine?????


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## Hooglabah (Dec 30, 2008)

Jewly said:


> It's only perfect for people who hate cats. They are other ways of handling the situation than going around killing your neighbour's pets just because you don't agree with what they're doing.
> 
> Maybe your brother could start up a little 'kitty relocation program'. :lol:


 
i dont hate cats at all i have two myself de sexd vaccinated and keept inside 24/7 and kept to fat to hunt even if they did get out  but i still kill feral cats without batting an eyelid wich is effectively what those are. id offer to help if i was in nsw but im not. you brother should try calling the relevant wildlife authoities like whoever issues wildlife licences they may put it through or he can just wait till the law is passed prevnting cat being outside at all. they should hurry up with that.


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

MzSel said:


> They are renting, and im sure the landlord knows as they would have inspections?
> 
> Its not near my place, its next door to my brothers and i dont even live anywhere near there so i cant do much. I was just wondering if anything can be done, they have tried calling rspca.
> 
> Jonno- Are you trying to say that *I* am irresposible for not *killing* these cats?



I wouldn't say you're irresponsible for not killing them, but it's definitely irresponsible to do nothing at all. *"All that is needed for the triump of evil is for good men to do nothing". *I like to envisage those who keep reptiles as having a higher awareness of native Australia but I am constantly reminded that as this hobby becomes more mainstream, my dream is becoming more distant...


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## Ishah (Dec 30, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> Ummmmm.....Who said they were ROAMING.................and these are NOT feral animals........... THEY HAVE OWNERS........................ NO-ONE has said they are roaming.................. I honestly am sick and tired of hearing from tunnel-visioned anti-cat people................. what you are advocating Jonno, is KILLING a live animal.......... isn't this what you are SUPPOSED to be against, or is one type of animal more important than another.......... please supply us with a list of what is more important than what........... what cames at the top of the list? what is at the bottom??? where do humans come in this, those who kill far more animals than ANY species?????? Should humans be trapped and euthanased too..... ALL of them????


 
Ummm.... honey, do you have snakes at all? You know they eat rats and mice dont you? So you would know that everyone on this site who owns snakes "advocates killing a live animal" in a way as they either kill the rodents themselves or support people who kill the rodents for them by buying them off those people...Some snakes also eat fish and chickens etc etc... they all have to be killed by people first... well some people may feed the fish live to the snakes for them to catch and kill themselves... And if you have lizards or anything like that... you would have somewhere along the line have also been advocating it that way also as lizards eat crickets and roaches... these may not be animals persay, but they ARE living creatures... So aren't you a touch hypocritical there? Yes these animals can be seen as pests, but they can also be pets to some people too, but the fact is, they all have to be killed for another to survive... I don't see people turning their snakes into vegans anytime soon... its a sad sorry fact of life... some people may refer to it as the circle of life...

Yes the cats will be put down, but they could also be "recycled" by feeding it to a snake or thrown into the bush for some other scavenger animals to thrive on if it puts ur mind at rest any better... This all depends on HOW the cat was euthanised of course... Either way, for most pets you have, they eat other animals... i.e. dog and cat food.... pigs, goats, horses, cows, sheep, anything like that all goes into making tinned dog food, and any sort of fish and whatever, they all go into making cat food, all examples of "advocating killing a live animal" as you put it, as every one of those animals had to be killed to feed your little Rover or Skitty kitty.... So aren't you showing a bit of "pro-cat tunnel-vision" in not thinking of every other animal that has to die for another? Yes this example is to feed another animal, but I'm trying to shed light on the fact that you ALSO advocate the killing of a live animal by buying all those cans of dog and cat food for your little fluffies and all those furry rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, mice and chickens etc that you feed your snakes... or those crickets and roaches that you feed you lizards LIVE... and lets go one step further here... if you eat meat, guess what YOU ARE STILL ALSO ADVOCATING KILLING A LIVE ANIMAL! 

So seriously have a bit more of a think on that... and honey, one more thing... they ARE roaming if they are catching and killing wild animals... and esp. if these people are having to scrap up the remains of the wildlife off their lawn... like someone stated... And it has nothing to do with what animal is more important than the other... It is illegal for these stupid owners to let their cats out to kill wildlife... So hence they should be taken to the pound, and if they have a collar, then the council will save them to be claimed by the owners... but if they have no collar or registration tag, (which it sounds to me like these neighbours cats dont have collars or tags etc) then the council will not hesitate to euthanise them immediately... So are you going to go complain to the council for euthanising these improperly cared for animals and rescue every single one of them? I doubt it... 

Its not about cat-hating or cat-loving, its about whats realistic and practical, and what is in the best interests of the situation (people and cats welfare - if it isnt being looked after then its better for it to be put down than live an unforfilling life in a pound etc etc in some/most cases) and the surrounding wildlife...


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> This is becoming a personal thing now..... Jonno.............. these cats you speak of here ARE NOT FERAL...... THEY HAVE OWNERS...................... KILLING an animal is just that, don't try and pretty it up with a "nice" way of putting it........ you are advocating KILLING AN ANIMAL. native or not, they have a right to live, who is to say one animal SHOULD live and one SHOUDN;T?? Reptiles KILL other, lesser animals for their food, it's THEIR instinct too........... why should we say that has more worth just because they are native.............. WE are NOT native to THIS land???????? WE KILLED off the aboriginal native people of Tasmania so that now thay are extinct... a lot now KILL native animals...... snakes too.... that they can get in their gunsights...... if it moves............. KILL it................ do we euthanase them??? They won't know, they will just go to sleep with an overdose of Morpheine?????



G'day Dipcdame,

Not personal at all for me...I'm just basing my stand on my love for native Australia and doing what I can, however inconsequential, to protect it...

I have little concern for the owners of roaming cats - they know the dangers that lurk and everybody knows that cats hunt...obviously these owners don't have any respect for our native animals and couldn't care less about their pets by exposing them to the dangers of the busy streets, fights with other cats and strange people with cat traps in their backyards.

Trying to draw a parallel between killing feral cats and killing humans isn't very relevant. 

We should say what has more "worth" simply because no other animal is capable of doing so. Without our help, a multitude of species will become extinct. Of course, cats aren't the sole source of this problem but they definitely don't help the situation. I think you will find there are very, very few people who have the "If it moves, shoot it" mentality. 

Please explain why these cats shouldn't be euthanised? Animal shelters are overflowing, there are constantly giveaway cats in the paper, the owners mustn't care too much for them...what is so wrong with a bit of permanent sleep time?


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## Sel (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> I wouldn't say you're irresponsible for not killing them, but it's definitely irresponsible to do nothing at all. *"All that is needed for the triump of evil is for good men to do nothing". *I like to envisage those who keep reptiles as having a higher awareness of native Australia but I am constantly reminded that as this hobby becomes more mainstream, my dream is becoming more distant...



What would u like me to do? Drive 7 hours to Albury and catch the cats ?

If i didnt give a rats backside, i wouldnt be asking here now would i ?
There is nothing i can do but ask advice and pass on to my brother, which IS what im doing.


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## the.badger (Dec 30, 2008)

From what I understand, if your brother can trap them and take them down to the RSPCA,_ if_ the owner bothers to look for them he will have to pay to have them registered and chipped etc and also a fee for the RSPCA's time and effort... which will hopefully prevent him from letting it happen again. If he doesn't bother to collect them they will be rehomed or euthanised according to RSPCA policy.

I think that's a better alternative than your brother euthanising them himself.


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## Dipcdame (Dec 30, 2008)

Jonno, you work on saving NATIVE animals, I shall advocate for saving ALL animals.................. no mtter how.......... where there is life, there is hope, and ALL things living DESERVE to live...............................I don't CARE for KILLING anything. Full stop.


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2008)

No insect spray in your household... no termite treatments
Would you eradicate fleas from your pets... mites from snakes etc
Life is Life after all isnt it?


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## Ishah (Dec 31, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> Jonno, you work on saving NATIVE animals, I shall advocate for saving ALL animals.................. no mtter how.......... where there is life, there is hope, and ALL things living DESERVE to live...............................I don't CARE for KILLING anything. Full stop.


 
PMSL well then what about all those animals that you indirectly advocate the killing of to feed your snakes and any other omnivorous or carnivorous animal/pet you own...??? Doubt you can turn a snake or cat herbivorous... a dog...maybe...but it will be more than a mission! 

Have you ever set a mouse or rat trap, laid ratsak, swatted a fly or mozzie, sprayed flyspray, any form of pest control? anything like that? I'm sure you have done some form of the above, hence your argument is null and void, as it is completely hypocritical! How do you come into the possession of your dead frozen rodents that you feed your snake? I am genuinely curious...

It may be killing, but in the way jonno is meaning it, it is not inflicting any pain or anything on the animal! HE ISNT ADVOCATING INFLICTING HARM ON THE ANIMAL!!! JUST PEACEFUL PAIN-FREE PERMANENT SLEEP/DEATH! Are you going to get on your high horse and band wagon and go and protest for all the rodents and feeder animals that get killed? are you going to stand up to most of Australia and the world and tell them they can't eat meat? Are you going to do anything like that? Doubt it! And you never answered my vegetarian/meatatarian question... Do you eat meat or not? Another answer I am genuinely interested in hearing... me, I eat meat...Have no problemo admitting it either... my fav is those cute fluffy little lambies :lol: Man their shanks taste good!


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## gman78 (Dec 31, 2008)

CALL THE LOCAL COUNCIL.
They will come around and warn or fine the person.


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## Renagade (Dec 31, 2008)

i'll take a tangent on this circular repetative thread and say: sneak next door with thai fish source in a sprey bottle and sprey it in your neighbours house window.1: the cat will probably love to go inside.2: they wont be able to find the smell and their house will stink to the point that they will move out. they probably wont get their bond back either...
hahahah. revenge is so good served cold.


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## PhilK (Dec 31, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It depends on how tough your brother is. If the cats are unsupervised outside, it is legal to capture them and euthanise them yourself.



Really? Is this legal for dogs too? I was pretty sure if you caught and killed someone's pet yo got in a fair bit of trouble for it..

Why would the council or RSPCA be allowed to do anything? As long as a cat or dog is collared and chipped there is no law against it being outside. Is there? Or am I just ignorant?


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## Wild_Storm (Dec 31, 2008)

Lol at PhilK- I think you could be right. 

HOWEVER- Guys, this is not a love/hate Cat debate. I do believe the question asked was for help on what could be done about a problem. I KNOW Faye shut down the love/hate cat debate today (SMART MODERATOR!!!)... Can we focus on ideas to help and NOT flame Cat haters, or Cat Lovers??


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## FAY (Jan 1, 2009)

When it comes to cats, threads have to disinegrate.
You have been given some choices of what your brother can do.
You can always warn your neighbour first, then put out a trap then take them to the pound.


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