# How nice is this snake



## MysticLizzards (Oct 11, 2004)




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## Sdaji (Oct 11, 2004)

GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RAZZA (Oct 11, 2004)

Not too bad looking at all


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## Greebo (Oct 11, 2004)

Is this a test? I'll say.......fairly nice.


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## lutzd (Oct 11, 2004)

Personally, a bit too freaky for my taste! :-(


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## AGAMIDAE (Oct 11, 2004)

lutzd said:


> Personally, a bit too freaky for my taste! :-(




DITTO.... :?


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## Miss_Magickal (Oct 11, 2004)

Would fit in nicely with my daughter's bedroom...........all pink and stuff........but it is a really nice snake..........


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## africancichlidau (Oct 11, 2004)

Sorry, don't like it at all


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

I wouldnt keep that snake if you paid me too. 

Dam those idiots and their designer snakes!


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## Fuscus (Oct 11, 2004)

Artificial Morph - YUK.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2004)

Im with the last 2 comments, that thing is yuck. Totally un-natural and completely man made. why do these things to animals, love them as they are or dont love them at all.


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

I too dislike most Boa morphs, but to call them man made is just silly. Most colour morphs originate from wild caught specimens. It's not man made, just selectively bred for it's pattern. It's no different than selecting a pair of the nicest normal BCIs you can find to produce nice offspring. They're not man made. Man dosen't create genetics, not yet anyway.


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

It is man made. I disagree with all that crap.

You would NEVER find that snake in the wild. 

selectively breeding for certain colour traits is wrong, if australia ever becomes like the US and Canada, I will stop keeping reptiles


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

I hate to tell you but that is where most colour morphs come from is wild caught specimens. They are mostly spotted by skin traders. True the chance of finding one in the wild is very slim, but it happens. It happend in California recently when a hiker stumbled upon an albino Rosy Boa. He collected the animal and there are now a captive population of albino Rosy Boas. I could go on and on about all the wild caught colour morphs. Just visit Bob Clarks site. I believe all of what he has produced is from wild caught specimens. You really should check facts before insulting someones country.


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

> selectively breeding for certain colour traits is wrong



Why? It's done with dogs, horses you name it. It's about wanting the nicest possible animal.


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## saikrett (Oct 11, 2004)

but dont we do a similar thing, selectively breeding jungles with high yellow, blond macs, etc


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

Exactly my point. Men cannot create snakes. These are not cloned or come from anyother peice of science fiction. The genetics are already there. In the wild most of these colour traits don't survive, but in captivity they can be preserved.


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

This is a designer python, it is bloody ugly and people who keep and breed such animals should be shot.

You may find an animal with a colour trait, but you would NEVER find a a snake that looked like that in the wild. It would simply not survive


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

And Men cannot create snakes?

Well what about women?


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

Okay this is rediculus. So you're saying I should be shot, because I keep and breed albinos? BTW, that's a Boa. These snakes would not survive in the wild, but they do in captivity, so what? I fail to see any logic in your position. It's one this to not like the snake, fair enough. Like I said I don't like it either. But to beak off about stuff you really have not idea about and to say that we who keep and breed colour morphs should all be shot, is just plain insulting and ignorant.


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## Bryony (Oct 11, 2004)

kevyn said:


> You really should check facts before insulting someones country.



I agree, don't jump down peoples throats and insult their country, you are stereotyping a contry as to all have the same opinion and same likes and dislikes.
Don't be so quick to judge and and make sure what your saying is true before having such a strong opinion on it


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

All I said was its a designer snake. It is, as are a lot of the carpets being bred here in Australia.

And all I said is that if selective breeding moves to the extent in Australia that it is in the US and Canada I will stop keeping reptiles.

How is that offending someones country?

That snake would NOT be found in the wild, so how is my statement wrong? It is man made in my opionion because a snake like that would not occur without corssing certain genes. Sure, to some extent it is natrural, but in my opinion it is man made. NO different to the high BG jungles you see for sale in Australia. NO different to the albino carpets and olives being bred in Australia. It is wrong IMO

And that comment about being shot? That was a joke, sorry I dont use smilies in my posts.

People can keep whatever they want, it is not my place to condem for keeping such an animal!


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

The main flaw in your argument is that this snake *was* found in the wild. Other wise it wouldn't be here. It's fact. It is rare, but albino do occur in the wild. Like I said check your facts.

And btw, the comment about shooting people, was very insulting.


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## Acanthophis (Oct 11, 2004)

ahh I know albinos occur in the wild. The Albino Carpet Python was found about 5 minutes from where I am sitting right now.

It was to my understanding from your posts that this snake itself was not found in the wild?
If it was I apologise


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## Splitmore (Oct 11, 2004)

> It is man made. I disagree with all that crap.
> 
> You would NEVER find that snake in the wild.



To echo Kevyns post, albino's are not man made freaks of nature, they are a natural occourence. Acanthopis, as for never turning up in the wild, where do you think the albino olives and carpets that are being produced originally came from?Yep, the wild!


> selectively breeding for certain colour traits is wrong


Why? 


> if australia ever becomes like the US and Canada, I will stop keeping reptiles


better hand your licence in now mate, I can tell you thats exactly where we are heading.


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## Splitmore (Oct 11, 2004)

> This is a designer python, it is bloody ugly and people who keep and breed such animals should be shot.


Acanthopis, whats your beef with people selective breeding? Obviously they appeal to the majority or they wouldn't command such high prices.


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

No that snake wasn't. Like I said they have been bred for the colour traits. But again you're just going to tell me that it's wrong and we should all be shot. Inferring that it shouldn't be kept unless it's a wild caught specimen just makes no sense. But I'm just not going to see your point of veiw. 

Before I resign from this thread, let me say this. All that is done with colour morphs is establishing a captive population of a gentic and random trait occuring from a wild caught specimen. Nothing more.


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## ether (Oct 11, 2004)

It's dicey. It's to articficial for my liking. I HOPE that australia doesent become like that!
Why can't we just be content with the great species we already have!?


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## NCHERPS (Oct 11, 2004)

Acanthophis said:


> And all I said is that if selective breeding moves to the extent in Australia that it is in the US and Canada I will stop keeping reptiles



I reckon your reptile keeping days might be numbered then, as within 10 years their will be albino crosses of most of the carpet python subspecies here in australia, the M.s.variegata will be crossed, you can be sure of it.
Selective breeding is already happening with most species to a greater or lesser extent, as mentioned with jungles and Hypo bredli, and loads of others.

Selective breeding of dogs and cats and loads of animals has been happening for decades, what's wrong with snakes.

Are you saying that if you had 6 adult snakes, you wouldn't try pairing up the best looking male and female to produce good looking young??

Most people here in Australia just haven't had the chance to obtain albino's to selectively breed, that will change in the next few years with the variegata, and to be honest I think they will be well recieved by the majority once they have seen and held one.


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## Tommo (Oct 11, 2004)

i have no problem with selective breeding with nice animals, look at simon stones jungles and Bredli's, great looking animals. i personally dont like some of the genetic breeding like that boa, the only thing i can see myself likly keeping would be albinos, but im not willing to spend alot of money on a gentic hicup.

about that boa, i prefer snakes that dont look like candy canes


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## womas4me (Oct 11, 2004)

Agree. All over australia right now there is selective breeding happening. Nothing wrong with it. The offspring may not be to everyones liking but who cares. Those pioneers doing it now will be forgotton in the future when albinos are common and people are commenting on the ' ugly ' normal ones.


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

I never said that everybody needs to love morphs. I could careless. I personally do like morphs, but prefer the normals way more. For me nothing beats the beauty of locality Retics like Sulawesi, Selayars, Bali, Makassar, Java, etc... . But like what everyone else hear has said it's just a matter of selective breeding, that's all. No one's growing anything out of a test-tube.


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## lutzd (Oct 11, 2004)

Tommo said:


> i have no problem with selective breeding with nice animals, look at simon stones jungles and Bredli's, great looking animals. i personally dont like some of the genetic breeding like that boa, the only thing i can see myself likly keeping would be albinos, but im not willing to spend alot of money on a gentic hicup.
> 
> about that boa, i prefer snakes that dont look like candy canes



Yeah, that just about sums up how I feel about the whole issue. People have been selective breeding all sorts of animals for certain traits for decades. Some have turned out pretty freaky and some have turned out well. 

I think it boils down to personal choice, and the majority will probably decide in the long run through market pressure. If people don't buy them, then they'll fade away. If the majority like them, then they'll continue to be bred. 

As I said, I think it looks a little freaky, but that's me. I'd never say that someone else doesn't have the right to own it - it just doesn't suit me! :wink:


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## Tommo (Oct 11, 2004)

lutzd said:


> Tommo said:
> 
> 
> > i have no problem with selective breeding with nice animals, look at simon stones jungles and Bredli's, great looking animals. i personally dont like some of the genetic breeding like that boa, the only thing i can see myself likly keeping would be albinos, but im not willing to spend alot of money on a gentic hicup.
> ...



WHAT :shock: !

someone agrees with me :shock:


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## Greebo (Oct 11, 2004)

> As I said, I think it looks a little freaky, but that's me. I'd never say that someone else doesn't have the right to own it - it just doesn't suit me!


 I feel the same way about those little rat-dogs. If you have to bend over to pat it, then it's not really a dog.


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## Slateman (Oct 11, 2004)

I do not like look of that snake. But I am not judging people who do like this selective bred animals and trying to come with something extraordinary. Most of them doing this as hoby and I do not think that I have place here to bag them. If they do not mix species, fine with me.
After all I loved the albino Olive on wild expo in Sydney.


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## kevyn (Oct 11, 2004)

Anyone got a link to a pic of that albino Olive?


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## BROWNS (Oct 11, 2004)

I love some of the morphs around but that snake does nothing for me...

Selective breeding is done by most people who breed snakes they select the best looking animals for colour or pattern traits or just the best looking animals in general.I think it is wrong to say that genetic freaks such as albinos or say the pieballed stimsons that was in athread not far back wouldn't survive in the wild,that;s where they were found and i believe there was an adult albino red belly caught a while back as well,seems like they all survived well till they were caught!!!


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## jungle_inc (Oct 11, 2004)

I love designer snakes! If you own a fair few "wild type" pythons, like it or not, you have already probably bought line bred snakes that were SELECTIVELY bred for being eager rodent feeders, or having good temperments or for health reasons. Line breeding for these sort of traits isnt any different or "unatural" than breeding for colour or pattern.Im not saying that everyone should love morphs, but I dont believe there is any need for such an aggressive stance on the topic.


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## ether (Oct 11, 2004)

Why would you want a pink snake and how the hell would you breed one?


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## bigguy (Oct 11, 2004)

Tommo, you say the only thing I can see myself likely keeping would be albinos. What do you think that Boa is?????? I will give you a clue "ALBINO" Thats just what an albino boa looks like!


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## Magpie (Oct 11, 2004)

I'd own it 
Although... maybe you have a point; I'm breeding some really really ugly coastals this year. Any one want any?


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## Tommo (Oct 11, 2004)

bigguy said:


> Tommo, you say the only thing I can see myself likely keeping would be albinos. What do you think that Boa is?????? I will give you a clue "ALBINO" Thats just what an albino boa looks like!



lol, sorry, most albinos ive seen are white or yellow/white, never seen a pink albino before

i change it to " the only genetic odd ball i would get would be a albino that doesnt cost a small fortune AND whos body doesnt resemble a candycane"


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## MysticLizzards (Oct 12, 2004)

kevyn is right it's all about breeding and wild caught you can't controle coloring


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## keelow (Oct 12, 2004)

Wasn't the famous "Splif", the albino olive python found in the wild?
They do occur in the wild, just very very very rarely

nez


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## diamond_python (Oct 13, 2004)

I don't like that snake at all. I also have no problem with people trying to get mixed or unusual colours etc. I breed birds and I am always trying to get different colour birds. How boring would breeding budgies be if they were all green. Or even Indian Ringnecks for that matter.


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## Ricko (Oct 14, 2004)

just wandering if anyone has any pics or articles on the albino maccy or browns do you have anything on that albino red belly??


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## trader (Oct 14, 2004)

> Anyone got a link to a pic of that albino Olive?




Hi Kevyn,

I believe this is the link you are referring to??

http://herptrader.com.au/AlbinoOlive/

Cheers, Jude


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## BROWNS (Oct 14, 2004)

Here's the pic of the albino rbbs...there is a thread on it somewhere about it.This one's pink and i like it a lot!!!Albinos also show reds and purples.I know of an albino adder like a candy cane but not a pink one.A friend of mine has an albino bts that got hit and killed by a car right in front of him so now it's in a jar...it's almost see through.I know of an albino blue tongue and there's the albino beardies...there's lots of albino animals in our game that are sure to change things hugely in the next ten years or so.

I am wondering who will have already thought what an albino Darwin crossed with a hypo bredli would look like ...would it still show red from the bredli and yellow from the darwin as well as white from both?


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## BROWNS (Oct 14, 2004)

How are those albino beardies going Splitmore?


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## BROWNS (Oct 17, 2004)

Bump....Just wondering how your going with those albino beardies Splitmore?How are they looking and have you bred from them yet?


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## Splitmore (Oct 17, 2004)

Hi Browns,
Sorry missed the earlier post.
All the albinos unfortunately died. They were never strong from the start and were very reluctant feeders. All up between me and another keeper we had about 10 babies to try and raise but the most we got out of them was about 4 months. In that time they were mostly being assist fed and while they did grow they never really took off. I consulted with a few US herpers about them and they never really gave them much of a chance either. All previous albinos that have hatched have died within a short while despite being given the best of care. Obviously there is something defecient in albino beardies that isn't a problem with most other albino reptiles. More than likely something to do with UV absorbtion. 
Was well worth a crack to try and establish them but unfortunately didn't work for me. There is a good chance more will appear over the next few years and maybe someone will do better than what myself and other keepers have managed so far.
Regards,
Splitmore


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## BROWNS (Oct 17, 2004)

What a shame Splitmore,i also was told another guys albino beardies died.


> More than likely something to do with UV absorbtion


Yep that would seem to be the most likely thing to affect them being sensitive to UV i guess...As you said there should be more from where they came from and hopefully someone can workout how to suuccessfully raise and breed them to get a captive colony going.Aparently there are leucistic beardies around and as well as the other colour phases it would be very interesting to see what colours and patterns may be produced in the future.I love albinos!!!!


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## Tommo (Oct 17, 2004)

> know of an albino blue tongue



ive seen pics of albino bluetongues, ugly little things. the nicest bluetongue ive ever seen is at the territory wildlife park, great colours(might be a genetic thing like hets or something, i couldnt care less what the difference is between a het, double het, piedball or what ever else there is around)


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## Splitmore (Oct 17, 2004)

I think in time you will start to see a few more mutations start to appear in Australian snakes. There is so many more being bred now than 10 yrs ago so it stands to reason more mutations will surface. I know some are totally against it but mutations are naturally occouring anyway so I can't see a problem at all.


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## Hickson (Oct 17, 2004)

Splitmore,

You may find there's a lethal gene associated with the albino mutation, and if that's the case then you'll never get them to survive. Good luck anyway.



Hix


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