# What's Humane??



## Adam (Feb 27, 2004)

How do you humanely kill rodent or cats or chooks or anything for that matter?? I feed all my food items live after they have seen Adam the dentist! :twisted:


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## stockeh (Feb 27, 2004)

rodents either a quick impact with a hard surface, or a pencil pressed down just behind their neck, chooks a quick twist of the neck, and as far as cats go i am not too sure but i am guessing that a twist of the head will work for them too


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## Adam (Feb 27, 2004)

mmmm not real keen on any of them as I have hit some mice and rats hard and they still live the little buggers. P.S I am actually a cat lover so no biting my head of!


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## stockeh (Feb 27, 2004)

the pencil is the best option as it severs the spinal cord and causes instant death, but any sudden blow to that area will do it, it has to be hard and quick right at the base of the skull


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## ackie (Feb 27, 2004)

i just grab their tail and slam them. Shooting them out of sling shots also works well


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## Parko (Feb 27, 2004)

Are you talking about cats ackie? :shock:


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## basketcase (Feb 27, 2004)

*.*

grab mice by the neck with two fingers and pull the tail while pressing down with your fingers. its called cervical dislocation i think AKA breaking neck

cheers, jono


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## Adam (Feb 27, 2004)

I'm still in favour of my dentistry work first and then live prey so they get a bit of excersize. Unless there is a better way as I have not been really successfull in the ways mentioned above.


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## varanus (Feb 27, 2004)

What's this dentistry work you speak of?


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## Adam (Feb 27, 2004)

You simply get a nice sharp pair of siccors and make sure there is nothing for the rat or mouse to bite the snake with, I am cruel in a way I suppose cause I cut 'em right back to the gums,the rodent does live if the snake doesn't kill it this way. It just loses a bit of wieght while it's teeth grow back in a few days. I am sick of wasting rodents when the snake doesn't eat them.


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## varanus (Feb 27, 2004)

You're not serious are you? :?


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## africancichlidau (Feb 27, 2004)

Very strange indeed. JMO. Flick and brick is the way to go also freeze to get rid of any nasties the rat may have on it or in it etc


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## zoe (Feb 27, 2004)

that doesnt sound humane at all...


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## Parko (Feb 27, 2004)

Why would you care how you humanely kill something if you are happy enough to de-teeth a creature with a pair of scissors? Humans are capable of anything, not judging you Adam cause what would you care anyway, but ****in hell that is really cruel. Am I slow and you are just kidding perhaps?


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## zoe (Feb 27, 2004)

the teeth thing i mean


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## africancichlidau (Feb 27, 2004)

The weight loss is probably more due to the pain it experiences, after having it's teeth cut back through the nerve endings, than the food it can't eat. I am sorry but I just can not condone this sort of inhumane action.


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## Parko (Feb 27, 2004)

zoe said:


> that doesnt sound humane at all...


What no fury? No righteous anger? Someone humanely euthanises a cat and you go apeshit but all the empathy you have for a mouse is ''that doesn't sound very humane''.


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

if you wanna start a fight i can happily blow up at you cos that wasnt really called for now was it? i am trying to hold back like i did in the initial kittens post before it got so out of hand it just P*ISSED me off


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

and nobody mentioned anything about how the cats were killed now did they?


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## cwarren72 (Feb 28, 2004)

I think that we have to be careful about the boundries we are crossing here, there is rules governing the feeding of live animals to reptiles. Also there is rules governing they killing of prey. You all come on here and go on bout the things you do to rats and mice and the like but you need to remember that if we can look on here then so can NPWS. Grow up peoples, Feeding our herps is a fact of life but we don't have to be cruel to do it.


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## Parko (Feb 28, 2004)

Zoe, no I don't want to start a fight I just find it hypocritical. I believe you to be nice but definately misguided in your anger.


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## africancichlidau (Feb 28, 2004)

Well said cwarren, cruelty is not necessary.


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 28, 2004)

I didn't think anyone would be interested in hearing the details about killing the kittens. I did say they were humanely killed.


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## varanus (Feb 28, 2004)

cwarren72 said:


> I think that we have to be careful about the boundries we are crossing here, there is rules governing the feeding of live animals to reptiles. Also there is rules governing they killing of prey. You all come on here and go on bout the things you do to rats and mice and the like but you need to remember that if we can look on here then so can NPWS. Grow up peoples, Feeding our herps is a fact of life but we don't have to be cruel to do it.



Well said. The last thing we need is for animal rights groups to push for the banning of reptiles. If they got wind of teeth removal prior to feeding a rodent (or anything else) to a snake, I can just imagine the uproar. Herpers get a bad enough rap as it is, without this sort of stuff.


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## africancichlidau (Feb 28, 2004)

Hear Hear my favourite bookseller


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

yeah i'll admit i am a HUGE cat lover and after working in a vet for 2 1/2 years my immediate reaction was horror really that someone would feed a kitten to a snake. but hey thats just me. :? i held back by saying "i luv cats..." as in "HINT HINT shut up now..." but nobody took the hint and it turned into a major horror thread about who likes to kill cats in what way which is kinda upsetting to someone who luvs them. having not ever had pet rats or mice i dont have the same love for them as i do for cats so the feelings arent as strong but it honestly made me feel sick reading what adam just wrote about cutting their teeth back but i was trying not to go schitz like i did before and end up causing a huge fuss with threads being locked etc etc. im sorry if it seemed hypocritical to you but believe me the anger is there im just trying not to express it so...err...much? :?


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

and im sorry iluvs for cutting a bit sick there...i guess with all the bucketloads of kittens that get put to sleep at shelters it kinda makes sense to feed them to ur snake but i could never do it! i know im contradicting myself now but im sure many people have read something that pissed them off or upset them and reacted initially to emotions and not logic :? 
anyway i think i'll leave that there


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 28, 2004)

Thanks Zoe,
I appreciate that.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

Settle down people.Have you ever seen the damage a rat does to a snake? Is that humane? Has nobody on here ever had to trim a rat or rabbits teeth? Well I have had a rabbit as apet years ago that had to have regular teeth clippings at the vet and for $40 he use to cut them with dogs toe nail clippers, so you see what I do is not in fact cruel as I do NOT go down to the nerve endings africa, maybe I was exadgerating when I said down to the gums as the rat does not bleed or squeel, it simply feels like us after going to the dentist, I know I don't go home and tuck into a t bone steak. Smacking them on the head isn't to humane either as they rarely die the first time and surely would suffer from this sort of trauma. Please lets not get stroppy,just helpfull. I don't condone torture that's why I started this post.


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

> Have you ever seen the damage a rat does to a snake? Is that humane?



No thats just nature


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## Greebo (Feb 28, 2004)

Mate your as flash as a rat with a gold tooth!
(Sorry, couldn't help myself).
Frozen is the only way to go.There are numerous hazards to feeding live prey not just the bites.
I will show some restraint here so this does not turn into another locked thread.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

O.K I apologize for what I have done and will let nature take it's course. Hey if one of my rats kills my snake I suppose it was ment to happen in nature and I should take it that way. P.S I have never heard of a snake hunting a dead prey item in nature. Don't mean to step on any toes but that's how I feel.


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## africancichlidau (Feb 28, 2004)

I actually drove 20 ks just to be shown the correct way to flick and brick a rat just to make sure I got it right! Due to this I can guarantee a 99% first flick success rate. SURE, that means one in 100 suffers an extra second which is a lot less than it would suffer placed live in with a serpent.



> it simply feels like us after going to the dentist



Oh, thats OK then I had forgotten how good I feel coming out of the dentists  LOL, I rest my case.
I will not say any more whatsoever on this post as I do not wish to be the first moderator banned from the best herp community on the web!
Let's just agree to disagree.


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## stockeh (Feb 28, 2004)

here here


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

O.K I have admitted I may be wrong on this matter.Let's talk but. Do you waste many rodent as once they are frozen they cannot be refrozen? If anyone close to Campbelltown can show me how to flick and brick I will be happy to do this as I am sick of my snakes being bitten but I am also sick of throwing out half the rodents I defrost as some of my snakes will only go off the movement of the prey.  ( recently took my 4 year old son to get 2 teeth filled and he cried for 4 days after)


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## spilota_1 (Feb 28, 2004)

Humanely euthanise rodents with CO2.


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 28, 2004)

Hey Adam,
I use frozens, but hardly ever have a snake not want to take it, but on the off chance that this does happen, i always offer the food item to my other snakes and then they take it, so there's no wastage.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

I suppose now my collection is big enough that would work. I used to try it when I only had 4 snakes,and I used to throw out half as many as would get eaten.


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 28, 2004)

Yeah, well the more snakes you have the more chance you have of another one taking it if others refuse.
If not....well, you'll have to get more snakes


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

I am and you know it!!! LOL :twisted:


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## sxereturn (Feb 28, 2004)

How about you just feed your snake frozen rats? If you can't afford to lose a rat every now and then because your snake isn't interested, you can't afford to keep snakes, simple.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

I breed all my own rats and have plenty so it's not the cost and besides I have plenty of cash and time for my reptiles,so hows that for simple?I also breed chooks,mice and now rabbits so cost is no issue. I think all the bleeding hearts should release their reptiles because all of you think an 8 foot snake is happy in a 4x2x2 foot enclosure,bullocks that is so small it's not funny. Keeping reptiles like that IS inhumane,as is keeping big lizards in small tanks. These reptiles live in massive area's and cover huge distances and to deny a monitor the room to run is the most inhumane of all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sxereturn (Feb 28, 2004)

Keeping a fairly unactive animal in an enclosure where it has room to do what it normally does (sleep) is in now way comparable to cutting an animals teeth out. There's just no need for it, at all. Go buy a tank of CO2, make the rats go sleepies, and it's all good.

Where'd the whole monitor thing come from?


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

That is actually suffocation,the same is if someone held a pillow over your head or if a snake squeezed the air out of it's lungs.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

Oh yeah I just went out the back and got 10 hopper rats and I am about to feed them LIVE to my childrens,without a trip to the dentist as they cause no harm at that age,or is that wrong to?


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## lutzd (Feb 28, 2004)

Adam, I don't think your kids would enjoy them at all (and it's spelled "children" not "childrens") 

Simple solution for you Adam : Get an Olive! They're the greediest snake there is! I only have 4 snakes, and there have been times when all three of the others have refused food..... but not the olive.... so he gets all three!  In fact, I usually don't thaw a larger rat for the olive until after I've fed the others, for that reason.
You could also try only thawing out enough for half your collection at a time. So it takes a little longer.... it cuts down on the waste.

... just a few thoughts....


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## Springherp (Feb 28, 2004)

here you are everyone this site discusses how to humanely euthanase live prey http://www.kinet.co.za/food_ratsmice_euthanasia.htm


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## luke (Feb 28, 2004)

my mum is a dentist she could probly get you some better tools for removing the rats teeth adam.(true) 
do they scerm much when you cut the teeth off? 8)


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## zoe (Feb 28, 2004)

this one has also been brought up a few times: http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/index.html

there should be no painful suffocation if done correctly.


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## luke (Feb 28, 2004)

cool link dose the same apply for the f***in rooster that lives next door i need an indiscreet and humane way to stop it from f***in crowing @ 4:30 every dam bloody morning :shock: 
and i have already thought of buying a silencer :twisted:


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## Slateman (Feb 28, 2004)

I am not bleeding h. and extreemist in any way. Just for seek of my snakes, I would prefer to feed frozen. Reason for it is that rat trapped in small area with out chance to escape will attack the snake. In wild they can run a way to save them selfs and they are not agresive to snakes.
Once snake hahe attacked rat in wild, it is moment of surprice and situation benefit the snake. But they anyway get some scars by hunting. In enclosure things are bit different, Space to small and if first strike is unseccesfull, watch for your snake as rat will get advantage to snake. In wild if strike is unseccesfull, rat will take off.


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## Farkurnell (Feb 28, 2004)

Adam if you're whacking the Rats and it's not killing them first go you're doing it all wrong. I've killed hundreds with a high success rate. A few of us have experimented with chloroform too with a lot of success. 
Even if it doesn't kill them outright surely it stuns them enough to be fed to the snake without the removal of the teeth.


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## marc (Feb 28, 2004)

Cruelty is curtainly not nessary when feeding reptile, its makes me sick to read such crap, I dont beleave there is a right way to kill anything but you have chosen to keep snakes, well havent you?...in order to keep your snake alive you must feed it other animals....unfortunately....I have to by mine already dead because I cant do it myself...the peaple that I buy from asure me that the died with out pain or suffering, and that sets my mind at easy...and sorry Adam but speacking of your dentistry work your bound to get a real mouth full from other people....I feed my snake dead prey for two reasons 1) live aniamls can be aggressive and hurt your reptiles and 2) Its illegal to feed live prey to your animal. Adam you talked about you want it to be natural thats fine but your snake is still in captivity, sorry its never going to be natural. Adam I like you but I have learnt if your not prepared to hear others views dont ask them, because there are some quiet diffent opions on this site.


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## Pinkie (Feb 28, 2004)

Hang on a second, if he is "clipping" the rat's teeth, it is a humane practice, I have seen it done on many rabbits at the vet surgery including my own (who had misaligned teeth). He didn't seem too phased by it either!
However, its one of those things that has to be done properly by someone who knows what they are doing, otherwise it can all go horribly wrong.

As for your rooster friend luke, try feeding it some grain/seed dusted in panadol (crushed).


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

Sweet it's all good. Thanx lutsd,that was helpfull. I do own Olives but they are only 1 year old and won't be able to take a big rat.While there are some good suggestions in there,I think I'll stick to what I know. If you decide not to like me,well so be it.The rat does not squeel or bleed so I know I am not hurting it(I have paid a vet to do the same thing to a rabbit that had teeth problems).There is no reason to attack,that is why people are too scared to post here,I know this because quite a few people PM me to say good on ya,but they won't reply on the post cause they don't want the abuse.I love my snakes and that's all there is to it,I don't however love rats or mice.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

I didn't even get to read any replies on my own post because some people can't control themselves.Did you know that when you freeze a rodent the cells in the blood explode and crystalize which causes loss in protien held in the rodents body,so the frozen isn't all it's cracked up to be.Don't believe me then go and do some RESEARCH as I have done before opening my mouth to voice an opinion that is only what you believe,not what is actually true.


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## Adam (Feb 28, 2004)

Thank you pinkie,I have seen my rabbit done many times at $40 a go,so I know what I am doing and I don't cut them back to far either. Thank you for having the guts to stand in.


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## kevyn (Feb 28, 2004)

I like CO2. I only feed live the my hots. As I've said before, I do this because of the possiblity the venom aids in digestion. Most of the time however, on the rare occasion I have to kill a rodent, I grab them by the tail and quickly introduce them to the floor. Quick and 100% effective. For the record I take no pleasure in doing this. I hate it actually. I always feel bad, but it is for the best that most of my snakes take dead only. Plus I don't imagine being killed by constriction would be on top of my list of ways to go.


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## luke (Feb 28, 2004)

thx pinkie 
thats all i need to know


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 29, 2004)

Way to go for standing up for your own opinion Adam. If it works for you...do it.


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## wannabe_herp (Feb 29, 2004)

zoe said:


> the teeth thing i mean


why not cut their heads off?


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## Fuscus (Feb 29, 2004)

A former poster to this site had a solution for the uneaten rodents. When feeding his snakes his dog would watch him and salivate. Any uneaten rats would be thrown to the dog who would, if you excuse the pun, woof then down.


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## maximus (Feb 29, 2004)

adam dude thats horrible. just flick it man, the best way..


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## zoe (Feb 29, 2004)

> If it works for you...do it



fair enuf but you cant just disregard the fact that something is cruel to animals because "it works"

lol and im not snapping im just saying


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## womas4me (Feb 29, 2004)

weird question maybe but why not just use frozen food.


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## Slateman (Feb 29, 2004)

Yes we should use frozen or preekilled food. And just for simple reason, that feed live pray is ilegal here. So please members who do feed live animals to your snakes, keep it to your self and do not post it here. 
This site is about herping the right way and we should promote the laws they apply. 
people who have different opinion on this subject are welcome to do and think what ewer they like, but admins will delete in future they contributions if necesery. 
We have many new herpers here on APS, and we should advice them the right way, to doit as they licence is stating.
Thanks, No hard feeling.


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

No hard feelings I will bow out respectivley and keep my advise to myself and never post on here again. So goodbye to the people who have been nice,it's a shame to go but there are too many nasties here,as we have seen in the last few weeks.What I do is safe to the rat just go ask a vet. Bye.


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## Greebo (Feb 29, 2004)

Adam, you sound angry that people are disagreeing with you. This is a discussion forum and everyone has differing opinons and sometimes it can turn nasty.
Yes, there are a lot of school kids here but do you really care if they disagree with you? There are maybe a dozen people here that I think really know their stuff and ususally help out the newbies.
As Slateman has pointed out, feeding live prey is illegal and NPWS do keep an eye on this site, so you can hardly blame Slateman for covering his ****.
My opinion is you really should be feeding frozen. I know you want to breed next season but you say you will always feed live prey.Personally, I would not buy snakes off a breeder who only feeds live.
I hope after you have had time to think about it you will stay here on APS and continue to contribute.But there are always going to be people who disagree, it's the nature of the hobby.


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 29, 2004)

Adam,
I hope that you decide to stay on this site. 
I have recieved ridicule as well, but that hasn't stopped me from posting here. In general, it's a good community. Just ignore those that annoy you. 
This site is a wealth of knowledge and it's good to be able to discuss things with other herpers. This is probably the best herp site in australia with discussion boards.
Some people know what they're saying, but others don't. Take the good stuff from the bad....
but don't leave.


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

No Greebs I was actually most annoyed by sxereturn telling me what I can and cannot afford.I have just read all the posts twice to make sure what was said and I don't think everyone realizes that trimming teeth is nat cruel,if cut down to the gums yes, I know i said this in one of my posts but I was exadgerating and I do not condone cruelty to animals either,heck I've got 4 cats,pet duck,pet chooks as well as my herps,I also have a siberian Husky out on loan breeding as well. I do not blame Slatey as I have met him personally and think he is a really nice and helpfull person. Good point about ignoring the bad,might work however I am not too sure on how any of my opions will be taken or if my input would be wanted. If someone can spend the time to teach instead of everyone throwing stones I would be happy for them to come over and spend a few hours showing me these method's of killing,freezing,dfreosting,and feeding.I apologize to one and all for causing any hassles or upsetting you.


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Feb 29, 2004)

You didn't cause any hassles Adam. If i were in Sydney, i'd come and show ya.


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## varanus (Feb 29, 2004)

I understand the reasoning behind trimming the rodents teeth; you do not want your snakes getting hurt, which is fair enough. However, what is the point of trimming their teeth prior to feeding, if not down to the gumline? If you failed to cut it to the gumline they would still have teeth enough to cause damage to your snakes, and if you DO cut it down to the gumline, well, that's just unecessarily cruel. I fail to see the point.

Another benefit of feeding thawed food, besides the safety factor, is that freezing the rodents will kill protozoans and other nasties they may be harbouring, which as I understand it, you had problems last year with your entire collection?

If you wish someone to show you how to knock the rodents, you're welcome to stop by our place again.


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

Some of my rats have really long teeth,like a good inch long,cause in captivity they don't get the chance to gnaw them down as in the wild,that is why I used to have to get my rabbits teeth trimmed,this way they can still bite but not all the way through the snake. Is flagulence a protozoans as this is a field I don't know much about. I am going to Tamworth to race on the 13 of march and will be going past your way on Thursday 11th march. Maybe I could drop in and spend some time learning. Thanx varanus,more helpfull than getting upset I reakon.Cheers,Adam.


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## kevyn (Feb 29, 2004)

Adam if you want a$$holes, check out the Bob Clark forums. It's really full of them.


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## Greebo (Feb 29, 2004)

The what now?


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## sxereturn (Feb 29, 2004)

I think there is a big difference between assholes and people sharing opinions. My opinion is that it's incredibly irresponsible and pretty bloody stupid for a few reasons.

1 - There is A LOT of new people getting into keeping herps. One of the last things we need to promote is feeding live.

2 - There is NO pro's to feeding live stuff. At all. And even if there was a tiny little pro side, it would be so far outweighed by the cons...

3 - It'd be so much easier gassing them (they fall asleep, not choke to death...) then having to bugger around with cutting teeth.

4 - Your snakes could still be bitten.

5 - Selling your animals...I would be reluctant to pay a fair price for your animals if you were feeding live because of a few reasons...chances of parasites, difficulty to get feeding on thawed...

Slatey - Yes, I know it is your forum, but it wouldn't be a forum without members. Both good and bad topics need to be discussed, you can't just have all the happy cheery stuff...arguments happen everywhere, and I think you get discussions where people have two opposing opinions, and arguments mixed up.


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

No kevyn I hate a#$holes and will be ignoring any posts by them in future instead of lowering myself to there level.Thanx anyway mate.


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## kevyn (Feb 29, 2004)

> Posted: Feb 29, 2004 - 01:47 AM
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The what now?



Huh?


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## zoe (Feb 29, 2004)

adam, i think most of the angry or critical responses came from when you said you cut them down to the gum. i think its fair enuf that people would be annoyed by that because it is obviously cruel. seeing as you have admitted that you exaggerated and that you only cut them a small amount, like pinkie said it is done by vets regularly and there is no issue of cruelty there. i dont think its fair to label people as a$$holes because they are worried about the welfare of other animals. after all, if it was me feeding live snakes to my cats it would cause a little stir wouldnt it? :wink: 
just because you dont have a love for a particular animal doesnt mean that its ok for it to suffer in any way. not trying to bash you or anything but i think its important you understand why people reacted that way and that it wasn't a personal attack.


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

Point taken kindly zoe. :wink:


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## bkgone (Feb 29, 2004)

i got something to confess,i know that i feed my lizard crickets but thats the way of life,anyways i was in the shower and a cricket was in there so i pushed the cricket down the drain.I feel really slack. :cry:


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## zoe (Feb 29, 2004)

lol PHEW i was hoping you would take that well!


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## Adam (Feb 29, 2004)

Nah your sweet. Maybe I got a little pooy, but my pet hate is when someone tells me what I van and cannot afford to do especially when that person doesn't know me. Oh well it was certainly a hot topic,that's for sure. 8)


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## Slateman (Mar 1, 2004)

Sxereturn post 
Slatey - Yes, I know it is your forum, but it wouldn't be a forum without members. Both good and bad topics need to be discussed, you can't just have all the happy cheery stuff...arguments happen everywhere, and I think you get discussions where people have two opposing opinions, and arguments mixed up.

Sxereturn thank you for tip. We do have such a large number of members here just because careful moderating and keeping our discussion in order, That is why you are here your self.
I do not thing that promoting illegal way to feed animals and giving newbies ideas about it will be any benefit for this site. 
Thanks but we will continue to run this site as we do right now and I can assure you, people still will find many subjects to argue about LOL.
I know that you meant well, but we are here long time as moderators and do have lot of experience to see topic which can turn to bad fight with no benefit to anybody. What would happen on the end, people get upset with somebody who disagree about issue as this one and we have bad inviroment and bad blood between them for long time or for ewer. We trying tor to calm it down before it start that way.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

Ooooh, Burned!

Kevyn, I was wondering what is this Bob Clark's forum you mentioned. Is it a US site?


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## Shamus (Mar 1, 2004)

Greebo said:


> Ooooh, Burned!
> 
> Kevyn, I was wondering what is this Bob Clark's forum you mentioned. Is it a US site?



http://www.bobclark.com/ me thinks.........


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## moosenoose (Mar 1, 2004)

VERY, VERY AWESOME READING! WHERE CAN I GET Co2 FROM??? 

P.S ......THIS FORUM WAS GREAT! 

1) IT HAD LOTS OF ACTION
2) GOOD DEPTH OF STORY LINE/ IMFORMATIVE
3) I'M INTERESTED IN OTHER MORE HUMANE METHODS OF PUTTING DOWN RATS/ MICE etc.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

Thanks Shamus.


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## Ella (Mar 1, 2004)

Adam said:


> Do you waste many rodent as once they are frozen they cannot be refrozen? I am also sick of throwing out half the rodents I defrost as some of my snakes will only go off the movement of the prey.



I don't have this problem besides owning just the one snake he's a major pig also! Always looking for more after dinner  (just a thought...I'm not starving him am i? He is just greedy? I feed him one large mouse, leaves a bulge and everything, once a fortnight) 

As for the movement thing...I use feeding tongs and wiggle the (thawed) mousie around for him. He strikes pretty much straight away.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

It does not sound like you are starving him Ella. Some snakes are just good eaters. It helps if good feeding methods have been used from the time the snake first began eating.


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## kevyn (Mar 1, 2004)

> VERY, VERY AWESOME READING! WHERE CAN I GET Co2 FROM???



Dry-ice is the best thing to use. Just be careful with it. Not sure where you can find it in Australia though.

It's usually safe to refreeze rodents once. I usually do but not anymore than once.


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## zoe (Mar 1, 2004)

just use baking soda and vinegar!


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

> It's usually safe to refreeze rodents once.


Is it worth putting your snake at risk for the price of a rat?


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## spilota_1 (Mar 1, 2004)

For a cheap and humane way of killing rodents just buy a soda stream (soft drink maker). Run a tube from the soda stream to a holding container where you place the rodents you want to put to sleep. Simple and effective gassing.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

I have a spare brick you can have.


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## Slateman (Mar 1, 2004)

We talking about food here I know. I am breeding heaps of them and killing them as best i can. 
But some times is so hard to do this. David came to my place once and he give me 3 rats because he decided to stop his breading program as they was to smelly.
One of his rat was male, and looks like he played with him a lot. This fella rat was so friendly and smart that I started to love him. He was so exited when I opened box and he was making happy noises, crawling all over me and we had something going for the while.
In short time I find that he have tumor and I had to kill it. Not easy task. Rat was looking at me and I had problem to wag him. I told him several times , mate please turn around, but he just looked at me with his loyal friendly look hoping for scratch. On the end I send him to Antarctica for expedition. He died in my freezer by freezing to death poor guy. 
Before that David give me this rat, I had impression that I hate rodents, but I definitely changed my mind after that.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 1, 2004)

You DO get attached to rats etc Slatey, I had just finished telling my missus that I could never top G.T. , our first male breeder when I went in to say hello to him and found him dead. A sad day indeed and my missus even shed a tear


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## zoe (Mar 1, 2004)

awww phil  poor G.T.


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## Adam (Mar 2, 2004)

Yeah I have my male named G.T and his missus is G.T.S,also have a massive stud called Scruffy Jnr.You can buy dry ice from C.I.G centers(also good for plant life so I've been told).


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## bkgone (Mar 2, 2004)

does anyone cut out the guts of the rodents before they freeze them?


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## sxereturn (Mar 2, 2004)

...you're serious again, aren't you?


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## bkgone (Mar 2, 2004)

yeah u got a problem with that?


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## Adam (Mar 2, 2004)

eewwww.


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

I've never heard of anyone disembowelling rats before freezing.


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## Parko (Mar 2, 2004)

Does anybody fillet them?


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Yes...and they usually add MSG.


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## sxereturn (Mar 2, 2004)

Hey anyone like to shoot at their animals with shotguns?


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## Alexahnder (Mar 2, 2004)

Are you refering to dry ice as being liquid nitrogen. I was pretty sure that it was necesary to have a permit before you can use it


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## Parko (Mar 2, 2004)

Lol Nothing wrong with Msg Greebo every tomatoe you eat is full of it.
Sxereturn must admit haven't tried that one yet, sounds a bit ''messy''.


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## sxereturn (Mar 2, 2004)

Permit to use dry ice? You can buy it from the servo...


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## Springherp (Mar 2, 2004)

> does anyone cut out the guts of the rodents before they freeze them?



bkgone, what would be the point of doing this? that would be just like eating taco shells!! :shock:


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## bkgone (Mar 2, 2004)

i was reading about feeding rodents on this aussie site, and this is what it said "Freezing,thawing and subsequent feeding of whole prey animals is a common practise among hobbyists and herpetologists,Some experts believe that such food sources should be "gutted" (eviscerated) before they are frozen.This greatly reduces the possibility of generalized bacterial contamination of the carcass.To replace those nutrients within the viscera that would otherwise be lost,the hobbyist can place a gelatine capsule filled with a vitamin/mineral/amino acid supplement into the body cavity before feeding the thawed prey animal to the snake".


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

I can see the logic in that. It would probably be feasible if you had only one or two animals, otherwise it would just be too much work.
I think freezing kills most (not all) of the harmful bacteria and are safe enough for my snakes.

Sxereturn, please do not ridicule ppl who ask questions that may seem stupid to you. Not everyone is experienced as you buddy. It's this very reason that some members are afraid to ask questions on here as they don't want to be made fun of.
It turns out that BKgone's question was a valid one and I was interested to learn that some ppl actually do gut their rats.


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## bkgone (Mar 2, 2004)

right on


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

Hear Hear Greebs old boy


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## womas4me (Mar 2, 2004)

still, it made everyone think though. if most poeple were face to face instead of internet hereos i bet they would have asked ' why would you do that '. easy to give curry to a computer screen


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Nice apology.
Blame the person who asked the question for not giving the answer in the first place.


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## zoe (Mar 2, 2004)

lmao


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Oh...he deleted it.


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## zoe (Mar 2, 2004)

lmao again


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## sxereturn (Mar 2, 2004)

I didn't delete anything.


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## soulweaver (Mar 2, 2004)

if u have patience you could always wait tillthey die from natural causes?


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

Another Melbournite  We will take over soon 

Welcome aboard Soulweaver


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## BIGTOE (Mar 2, 2004)

This is my first official post
but if you think cutting a rats teeth back with sissors is bad how about having to FILE back the teeth of a horse! (true my fiance has to get it done to her horses about once every 6-7 years)

Sends a shiver down my spine!

BIG IS THE TOE


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## sxereturn (Mar 2, 2004)

We used to have to get our male horses "relieved" otherwise they'd start humping everything in site.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

> how about having to FILE back the teeth of a horse! (true my fiance has to get it done to her horses about once every 6-7 years)



You feed 'em live Bigtoe?
Oh yes, welcome to the site  Where ya from?


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## womas4me (Mar 2, 2004)

Just curious. We heard melbournites are living proof that tasmanians can swim


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## zoe (Mar 2, 2004)

nah thats adelaide :lol:


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

And we heard westies can keep herps now  

Talking of Westies, anyone seen Westhamsc lately?


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## BIGTOE (Mar 2, 2004)

I dont have any snakes yet but soon may be getting a Bredli if all goes well

but we have been into everything and still are 
Alpacas Ostriches chooks fish dogs cats kangaroos wombats peacocks rabbits fleas knits and toe jam


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## womas4me (Mar 2, 2004)

good old WA. a least 10 years behind the rest of the world. There are still people here who dont have a photo on their license.


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## BIGTOE (Mar 2, 2004)

oh yeah, im from the central tablelands NSW (oberon)


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## BIGTOE (Mar 2, 2004)

oh yeah, im from the central tablelands NSW (oberon)


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## zoe (Mar 2, 2004)

i got a pm from him yesterday phil...or was that today...i got the memory of a fish.

i got a pm from him yesterday phil... :lol:


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## BIGTOE (Mar 2, 2004)

yeah but can you speak whale?


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

Oh Good , so he's still around then


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## varanus (Mar 11, 2004)

Adam said:


> I am going to Tamworth to race on the 13 of march and will be going past your way on Thursday 11th march. Maybe I could drop in and spend some time learning.



What's happening Adam?


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## rodentrancher (Mar 13, 2004)

That is cruel. Put em to sleep with CO2.


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## Slateman (Jun 7, 2004)

I find this old thread about feeding live and all for if anybody is interested.
Looks like we are repeating our selves. LOL


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## Blue_Streak (Jun 7, 2004)

Does everybody who likes snakes dislike rats? Cause ive got two pet rats and there great. i dont even like looking at a dead frozen mouse


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## Nome (Jun 7, 2004)

I used to hate mice, ...typical girl scream and stand on chair..., and loathed the thought of breeding them. Now I'm always 'playing with the food', and one of my specific feeding mice I have fallen in love with, and I just can't bare to feed it to my snake. :roll: I just can't do the deed and then freeze him, he's lovely :?


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## luke (Jun 7, 2004)

crush em slowly in a vice (mice rats, cats, dogs, people) what ever its the best way


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## Blue_Streak (Jun 7, 2004)

lol, is freezing them humane, wouldnt they just go to sleep?


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## moosenoose (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't mind the rats & mice, it's easy to be cruel about it unnecessarily -I try to teach my kids not to. Although my big stuff up the other day didn't look convincing LMAO If they didn't smell so much they'd make great pets LOL Got to have a little bit of respect for the buggers though - they make up a hell of alot of everyones snakes diets!


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