# Future elapid keepers.



## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Seeing as there are a few courses now available teaching the correct handling and husbandry requirments of elapids, i'm interest to hear how many python keepers are contemplating "graduating" into elapid keeping? What are the main species of interest for you guys? We're in the process of upgrading our collection of Redbellies with anticipation of sorting new ven keepers out with some good 'starter' elapids.......

Thanks guys
Den


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## Ozzie Python (Feb 28, 2008)

done one course with jonno, hopefully in the not too distant future i'll be able to do the husbandry course. would love a rbb, but i fell in love with the collets at the course, as such i must have one!!!!


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## hornet (Feb 28, 2008)

i am yet to do a course but will do one sometime in the near future. My main species of interest are adders(thanks alot sdaji) but for a starter will be going for something cheap and more suitable for a beginner like RBBS


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## Chimera (Feb 28, 2008)

I would love to get into Death Adders, however both my wife and I are into Pythons and she's not keen. Don't think it's fair to push the point too far.

Maybe down the track


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## DiamondAsh (Feb 28, 2008)

I fall into the 'future' ranks. I'd love to have one or two, but while I've got six young kids in the house it won't happen for at long time. It's not that I wouldn't trust my own husbandry and safety conditions, but kids will always find a way.


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## dragon170 (Feb 28, 2008)

I have the same problem ash waiting for mine to go to school. will be doing the course soon though for removal.Always been interested in RBBS as seen heaps as a kid and always found them quiet and fascinatingly beautiful


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## Miss B (Feb 28, 2008)

Would love to own an Adder one day but I'm not sure yet whether I will or not and if I did it would be a loooong way off. That's pretty much the only elapid species I have any interest in. I'm somehow doubtful that my partner would be too keen on having one around the house though :lol:


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Adder's are a good 'hook sitter', although keep in mind, they are very "cute" but deceiving. They will strike straight up without warning and with lightning speed. An adder was one of my first, very inviting.....

Collett's are top little blacks, getting hard to find. Hopefully more will become available in the near future.


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## Whisper2 (Feb 28, 2008)

i plan to as soon as i am legally allowed. 
i would love RBB's and tiger snakes to start off with, then adders and brown snakes prehaps.
long way to go until then though....


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## hornet (Feb 28, 2008)

Den said:


> Adder's are a good 'hook sitter', although keep in mind, they are very "cute" but deceiving. They will strike straight up without warning and with lightning speed. An adder was one of my first, very inviting.....
> 
> Collett's are top little blacks, getting hard to find. Hopefully more will become available in the near future.



so would you say adders can be a suitable first ven? I was thinking since they are so placid but strike with lightning speed its so easy for one to get overly complacent with them and would be better off "training" with something a little less ven?


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## Vincent (Feb 28, 2008)

Den said:


> Collett's are top little blacks, getting hard to find. Hopefully more will become available in the near future.


 

Their not that hard to find. Shane Black breeds them. So do a few others.


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## TANN-MANN (Feb 28, 2008)

After I do my time on a basic license I will be looking at upgrading to vens...as well as after I get enough cash to do one of Jonno and Sharna's husbandry courses.

species looking at keeping include RBBS, spotted blacks, tigers, collets (Agree with Ozzie python there...that was one hot little collets) not to keen on adders, next step would be to move onto mulgas and western browns....hell i'd like to have a pair of each species...although there is no way the misus will comply with that lol


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## djfreshy (Feb 28, 2008)

I really would love a Golden Crowned. Something about these little guys. Really quite beautiful but alas there doesn't seem to be any around.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Hey Hornet,

Different people have different ideas on what makes the ideal first elapid. My preference is a RBBS, although an adder was one of my first. I don't know if keeping blacks would necessarily help in the experience of keeping adders. Adders are ambush preditors making them a different kettle of fish altogether. They look so calm and inviting, hence the danger of complacentcy. Top snake to keep although alot of respect and thought must be given when 'tinkering' in their enclosure.

JMO
Den


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## TANN-MANN (Feb 28, 2008)

DiamondAsh said:


> I fall into the 'future' ranks. I'd love to have one or two, but while I've got six young kids in the house it won't happen for at long time. It's not that I wouldn't trust my own husbandry and safety conditions, but kids will always find a way.


put a biometric lock on the door...they cant pick a fingerprint plus they are getting fairly cheap these days and look kinda flash


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## zulu (Feb 28, 2008)

Den said:


> Adder's are a good 'hook sitter', although keep in mind, they are very "cute" but deceiving. They will strike straight up without warning and with lightning speed. An adder was one of my first, very inviting.....
> 
> Collett's are top little blacks, getting hard to find. Hopefully more will become available in the near future.



Hook sitters hey den and cute LOLz top snake the death adders for sure,used to put their food in the cage and that was it with those fellas,a bloke i know was bitten by a huge red common adder from straight up vertical.used to find bue belly blacks good captives,eat good and active but if you have horizontal opening doors to cage can near jump out at you in their anticipation of a feed!


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## Vincent (Feb 28, 2008)

Den said:


> Different people have different ideas on what makes the ideal first elapid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you only plan to keep Adders, then go ahead and start with an Adder. But if you plan to keep other types, Adders are useless as a first Elapid. The reason is, Adders wont teach you a thing about how to handle/keep the other type of Elapids. You could have kept dozens of Adders for years, and it wont help one bit when your new Brown or Taipan jumps out of it's box. At least with a RBBS, you'll learn and improve as a handler. JMO.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Feb 28, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> If you only plan to keep Adders, then go ahead and start with an Adder. But if you plan to keep other types, Adders are useless as a first Elapid. The reason is, Adders wont teach you a thing about how to handle/keep the other type of Elapids. You could have kept dozens of Adders for years, and it wont help one bit when your new Brown or Taipan jumps out of it's box. At least with a RBBS, you'll learn and improve as a handler. JMO.


Amen
I was just trying to find the words for what you just posted..thanks shane..


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## hornet (Feb 28, 2008)

when i do get elapids all i plan to get are adders so i might just go with a A. antarcticus first then move onto A. pyrrhus and wellsi if they are available


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Shane, good point. The best advice I could give new (or soon to be new) elapid keepers is to quiz seasoned elapid keepers. Everyone has different ideas and methods on what to keep, how to keep it and what to start out with. Listen to keepers that have extensive experience with elapids eg. Jonno Lucas, Greg Prostamo, Shane Black etc. Take everyones thoughts and opinions and combine them to suit yourself. Make sure you are sensible when choosing your first elapid. By NO means should anyone jump into eastern brown or Tai's. I've been keeping elapids for 10 years and I still don't own any coastals! In saying that, i've only recently been instructed on the correct way to handle such respect demanding animals as Coastal Tai's. Know your limits and be sensible when your time comes to upgrade from 'starters'.


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## cris (Feb 28, 2008)

I would like to keep some adders but im not really too keen on keeping the active deadly species. I would reccomend keeping something like a common tree snake before getting any of the fast deadly species, as said above these snakes can basically jump and move very quick if they want.

Also there arnt really that many keepers around who havnt been bitten from what i can tell. Ppl make mistakes and getting biten by a deadly elapid is something you may suffer from for the rest of your life(which may well end up much shorter).


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## m.punja (Feb 28, 2008)

I agree with the other posts. Adder's are in a league of their own. No other snake will help you get enough experience to keep them. I've found the adders to be the easiest elapid to keep and I would recomend that anyone who wants one to get one SO LONG as they respect the snake. Never sticking anything in the enclosure until you have located the snake. Never play around in the enclosure unless the snake is out. (no circumstances). Small rules like that. Mistakes can happen very easily with Adders. I know plenty of times I've thought, nah, it's not going to bite me. Lucky I snap out of it and take the snake out of the enclosure before changing the water. Its just so much easier to say that about the adders then the other elapids. I got RBBS and tigers as my firsts. Since I've found them both to be easy to care for. Tigers seem really smart and settle easily.

I have also gotten a few good size RBBS to breed for the market and future elapid keepers. They seem to be the most liked.


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## notechistiger (Feb 28, 2008)

How exactly does someone get a venomous snake licence in QLD? Is there a specific age someone has to be? I'm interested in getting some RBBS, tigers and maybe an inland taipan.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

The courses coming up will cover all aspects of correct tailing methods husbandry etc. Handling most elapid species is quite easy when taught how to. (excluding one persons coastal that likes to hit ceilings....)! Once the course is completed references are given which will allow you to apply for a Resricted licence.


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## notechistiger (Feb 28, 2008)

Is there an age limit?


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

18yrs old is the minimum.


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## m.punja (Feb 28, 2008)

that tiger in your avatar is awsome great pic


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## Chimera (Feb 28, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> If you only plan to keep Adders, then go ahead and start with an Adder. But if you plan to keep other types, Adders are useless as a first Elapid. The reason is, Adders wont teach you a thing about how to handle/keep the other type of Elapids. You could have kept dozens of Adders for years, and it wont help one bit when your new Brown or Taipan jumps out of it's box. At least with a RBBS, you'll learn and improve as a handler. JMO.



HA, thats the reason why I was keen on Adders. The simple rules that Punja layed out are enough. So long as you don't get complacent I think adders would be a safer ven then some others.

From what I've heard though, nothing can prepare you for a brown or a taipan jumping out of it's box


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

I seemed to have turned this into a "what should you keep" thread. My initial thought behind this thread was to find out how many new to be keepers will be interested in RBBS newborns. As they can be time consuming to get started as babies, I was curious to find out whether I should pair multiple animals. Adders seem to be the trend of choice for the moment....


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

when im 18 and leave home i hope to get a rbbs, i would love a king brown but a member on this forum opened up my eyes to the fact that its not so much myself being scared of getting bitten, but the stress it would put on my family if i did...

if i dont get elapids ill end up getting midly venomous snakes like whip snakes etc


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

den im all for rbbs's i think it would be smart to pair multiples because i never see them for sale...

there my number one choice of elapid

just curious though den, do keepers keep antivenom aswell?


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## Australis (Feb 28, 2008)

arbok said:


> if i dont get elapids ill end up getting midly venomous snakes like whip snakes etc



Whip Snakes (_Demansia sp_) are still very much elapids.


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

Australis said:


> Whip Snakes (_Demansia sp_) are still very much elapids.



really?, so there front fanged?

but i have heard there venom cant kill


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Not at all. Antivenom is only given if warranted and only after intense observations by hospital staff. 

More experienced people may be able to comment further on this subject. I can only comment on the effects of snake bite through here say and observation. In short though, keepers do not keep antivenom.

Den


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## Jozz (Feb 28, 2008)

arbok said:


> really?, so there front fanged?
> 
> but i have heard there venom cant kill


 
Someone was killed by a whip snake last year in Victoria


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## Jozz (Feb 28, 2008)

Yes, they are front fanged


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

Jozz said:


> Someone was killed by a whip snake last year in Victoria



!!! 

alergic reaction?


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 28, 2008)

A friend of mine was describing his bite from a small desert death adder.
He nearly died and woke up in hospital with blood coming out of nearly every orifice.
I never got to ask him if this included his butt hole, what a horrible thought.


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## Jozz (Feb 28, 2008)

I think it was injected directly into an artery? Not exactly sure.


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## Dodie (Feb 28, 2008)

I want to start keeping elapids within the next few years, would like to do the husbandry course but I have to buy a place of my own before I can do it! Species of interest at the moment are: Colletts, Rbbs, Mulga's and Adders

There has been a death from a whip snake arbok, correct me if I'm wrong someone but I think it was from a anaphylatic (sp?) reaction?


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## m.punja (Feb 28, 2008)

never mind


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Haha Dave I was told 10 years ago that if you had to take a bite an adder would be the choice. The idea was due to the neurotoxicity of the venom, lacking in other 'dirty' venom properties. After the stories like yours that i've heard i'll stick to no envenomation as my preference.......


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## m.punja (Feb 28, 2008)

Jozz said:


> Someone was killed by a whip snake last year in Victoria


 

dont know him personally but know heaps of people who did. Alergy. Would have been better being tagged by a tiger or brown. Unlucky


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## Jozz (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks Punja. Very unluky indeed. Was he a member here, or just people here knew him? I remember when it happened it was a bit sensitive.


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## shlanger (Feb 28, 2008)

*Whip Snake Death*

April '07 bloke died from bite of Little Whip Snake at Mt Alexander [near Castlemaine] Vic.
Weather or not it was 'vein bite' or 'anaphalaxis' matters not, end result the same. Had he not been bitten, would probably still be with us. In an earlier post, a certain member from 'New York' stated that 'there had been several deaths from LWS at Mt Alexander' but could not prove it! I have lived in the district for the last 50 yrs, keeping herp for 40 an was an Ambulance Paramedic for the last 32 yrs. {Retired July '07] I have only ever heard of the April 07 death, would have heard of others had they occurred!


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Den
I was also lead to believe this myself and just the other day I was reading the same information from a respected scientific site which covered their venoms components.
It would very interesting to see what David Williams has got to say about it.


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

oh how horrible :*(

and mr punja are u saying that you would have more of a chance of surviving if u got bitten by highly venomous snake than if you had a alergic reaction ?


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## TWENTY B (Feb 28, 2008)

although i am a long way off actually owning a ven i would love to do any available courses.. 

especialy after seing that scaleless adder,


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## swaddo (Feb 28, 2008)

Elapids are where I want to go eventually. RBBS are pretty neat too and from encounters in the bush seem to have a pretty layed back attitude  Is it possible to keep copperheads in NSW?


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## Magpie (Feb 28, 2008)

PilbaraPythons said:


> A friend of mine was describing his bite from a small desert death adder.
> He nearly died and woke up in hospital with blood coming out of nearly every orifice.
> I never got to ask him if this included his butt hole, what a horrible thought.


 

When your blood thins and does not clot, you bleed from ALL your orifices, eyes, nose, mouth and both downstairs ones.


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 28, 2008)

G'day guys,

On the "first elapid" topic, my opinion is everyone should start with either a Red Belly, Collett or Spotted Black. They teach the basics of tailing, head restraints and other problems that arise in captivity such as feeding responses. Adders are fantastic to keep, and would make great first elapids if nothing ever went wrong - unfortunately things do go wrong, and this is when they become very dangerous. Death Adders are probably the hardest species to head restrain correctly, as they have incredibly mobile fangs, are prone to "death rolling" under the pinner and breaking their own necks, and pulling out of a keepers grip thanks to their "flexible" jaw and skull structure. Many a keeper has been bitten while head restraining an Adder. 

With regards to the blood thinning/orifice bleeding situation, I know of one famous bite from an Alice Springs Western Brown Snake. The guy who was bitten had had a shave that morning, and actually started to bleed from all the tiny little cuts in his face that you normally wouldn't notice. He also bled from his eyes, ears, nose, gums and _everywhere_ else too.


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Well that answered that.........His butt was bleeding, what a picture.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

Spotted black, for those who are unsure. This is the 'blue belly' or straight black phase. The can range from this to speckled with off-white to redish spots.


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## thesilverbeast (Feb 28, 2008)

i would much rather bleed out of my butt than my eyes!!!! but i have a phobia of anything with my eyes like eyedrops. 



back on topic... i would love to get into elapids. RBBS and adders would be a fav.


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## jack (Feb 28, 2008)

glad you pointed out the adder problem jonno, having had to help a few juvies with their early feeds i concur that they are a little difficult to handle...
swaddo, my first elapid was a copperhead, and yes you can keep them, but good luck with finding them, and if you do be prepared for the misery they can bring (they tend to die easy!)...


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## mrmikk (Feb 28, 2008)

My main drive to do the ven handling course is to keep RBBS. As far as I can see this snake is suffering in the wild due to cane toads, habitat loss and people killing them on sight. 

They are a beautiful snake and one that needs our assistance. People may say that they aren't endangered at present. That may be correct but it is much easier to preserve an animal before it becomes endangered.


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## scam7278 (Feb 28, 2008)

I plan on getting 2 elapids a red bellie and an eastern tiger. but i will be waiting until we done having kids and our youngest child is at school.my mrs keeps saying NO WAY but she said the same thing about pythons 

As for adders... Anything with the word DEATH in its name i think i'll give it a miss  even though i do think they are an awsome animal .....


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## Reptile_Boy (Feb 28, 2008)

another 3 years i will be able to do courses and get my class 2 for elipads. cant wait


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## arbok (Feb 28, 2008)

are there ever any ven handling courses in sydney?


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## Charlie (Feb 28, 2008)

I'd love to get some RBB's, Tigers, and Easter small eyed snakes. The small eyed snake in the new Reptiles Australia mag is amazing.


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## waruikazi (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm doing a course next week. So i guess i will be keeping some pretty soon.


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## BT (Feb 28, 2008)

awesome spotted black Den, they are my favourite Elapid species, are the hard to keep or pretty much like the same as a python but alot more dangerous


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## Jozz (Feb 28, 2008)

They eat and crap a lot more


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 28, 2008)

LOL, The only difference is you feed them a smaller food item than you would a python. The husbandry requirments are the same.


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## dames1978 (Feb 28, 2008)

I think one day that I would like a RBBS or BBBS but adders do grab as well......so many to choose from...I think I will build up my harmless collection first though


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## xycom (Feb 28, 2008)

A pair of Eastern Browns would be nice but I haven't got the facilities to house them safely at the moment.
A Little whip snake would be nice aswell 
Is anyone breeding them?

Per


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## Splitmore (Feb 28, 2008)

Den said:


> Adder's are a good 'hook sitter', although keep in mind, they are very "cute" but deceiving. They will strike straight up without warning and with lightning speed. An adder was one of my first, very inviting.....
> 
> Collett's are top little blacks, getting hard to find. Hopefully more will become available in the near future.



Colletts are fantastic snakes. How things go in a complete circle though. I gave up breeding them about 12 years ago because they were that common I couldn't even get $50 for a hatchling! Now they seem rare as anything in captivity


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## voodoo (Feb 28, 2008)

I reccomend black snakes as first timers...there much more prettier.
Although i must say my tamest elapid would have to be my 2 year old eastern brown(in avartar), even my python loving wife handles him, but she wont handle any of my others.


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## arbok (Feb 29, 2008)

so voodoo you free handle your eastern brown! arent u at all scared of the risk involved....


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## Jozz (Feb 29, 2008)

Den said:


> LOL, The only difference is you feed them a smaller food item than you would a python. The husbandry requirments are the same.


 
I find myself cleaning out their cages 2-3 times a week, compared to once every 1-2 weeks for pythons.


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## notechistiger (Feb 29, 2008)

Who ever mentioned it, the tiger snake in my avatar isn't mine, but I hope I can get a tiger as black as that, eventually. I've seen pictures of blue tigers as well, and I'll definitely look for them. Also, can you own brown tree snakes on a recreational licence?


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## m.punja (Feb 29, 2008)

arbok said:


> oh how horrible :*(
> 
> and mr punja are u saying that you would have more of a chance of surviving if u got bitten by highly venomous snake than if you had a alergic reaction ?


 

thats what I had heard. There are APS members who knew him, they might be able to shed some light.

Didn't realise the adders rolled! Now that I know I'll be much more careful while pinning and restraining. I've had to head retrain both my Adders a number of times, had to force feed one and very big number of times...  I havn't had either roll but I know holding them by their head is much more difficult and nerv raking then the others. In a way you got to love the way they can move them fangs


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## Vincent (Feb 29, 2008)

arbok said:


> are there ever any ven handling courses in sydney?


 
Try and get in contact with Shane Black. His an amazing handler and keeper. Knowing Shane, he'd probably show you the basics for a slab of VB, lol. But he usually tries to talk people out of keeping dangerous elapids. Seriously though, if your lucky enough for him to show you, you couldnt find a better teacher.


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## Ryan93 (Feb 29, 2008)

i would love to do some courses later on but i want also too keep elapidaes in the near future. I like the browns species such as the eastern brown since i have had an encounter with 1 or 2.


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## natrix (Feb 29, 2008)

I'd like to keep a RBB at some point up the line but ideally I'd prefer someone to dicover a
Python with the colouration of a RBB.


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## python blue (Feb 29, 2008)

i cant wait untill july this year i can finally up grade my licence i already have a pair of collets and rbbs on order so hopefully will get these


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Feb 29, 2008)

> Who ever mentioned it, the tiger snake in my avatar isn't mine, but I hope I can get a tiger as black as that, eventually.


The pic in notechistigers avatar was taken by Bruce Means.
http://www.brucemeans.com/index.htm


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## TANN-MANN (Feb 29, 2008)

python blue said:


> i cant wait untill july this year i can finally up grade my licence i already have a pair of collets and rbbs on order so hopefully will get these




how can you do that...it says in your thingy your only 16...I thought the min age was 18 years old, and you must have held a basic license for min 2 year....then move onto class 2


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## python blue (Feb 29, 2008)

tann-mann its wrong i just dont know how to change it lol and ive had my basic licence for 3 years now


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 29, 2008)

Jozz said:


> I find myself cleaning out their cages 2-3 times a week, compared to once every 1-2 weeks for pythons.



For sure Jozz, i'm used to cleaning Aspidites cages bi-weekly, they have alot in common with elapids......Lots to clean and a physcotic feeding response. Most of the Collett's i've kept work themselves into a frenzy at the slightest smell of a mouse. Most times biting their own tails as they tail flick in excitment!


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## MrSpike (Feb 29, 2008)

I'd like the get vens, but I have to wait until I'm 18 to get the proper license.

I'd be mainly interested in keeping Red Belly Blacks, Tigers, Adders, King Brown, and maybe a few Tai's eventually.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 29, 2008)

Swing me that mac of yours Kane and I'll cover you for two of the species you mentioned.....

.


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## Ozzie Python (Feb 29, 2008)

i think the problem with not having as many people keeping elapids these days is it is hard to find anyone willing to teach us unexperienced herpers on how to safely manage them.

it is one thing moving them round with a hook, which many can do, or be easily taught. but as far as keeping them and having to head grab and tail them which is undeniably going to need to be done at some stage, that is a whole different ball game. that and getting the stat decs to get your licence.

i have approached a few keepers of elapids but none are yet up to the challenge to show me the ropes, obviously the dangers and risk of having an inexperienced person bitten out weigh the desire to teach. Jonno has his course for experienced handlers ,but for obvious reasons he needs to be cautious as his business is in the line if something goes wrong.

How have all of the elapid keepers on here gained the needed skills? self taught?


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## notechistiger (Feb 29, 2008)

I found that tiger snake picture on Google. Very nice picture. Anyway, Ozzie Python, why can't experienced handlers teach unexperienced handlers with pythons? Obviously this won't help with adders, but still. That way newbies can get a handle on it, and then try some non-deadly species, like pale-headeds or anything the like. Then they can move onto some harder things.


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## Ozzie Python (Feb 29, 2008)

notechistiger, that exact question came up at the relocation course with jonno. the general response from people there that had any elapid experience is that pythons and elapids don't act in the same way.

i can head grab any of my pythons, but i sure as hell am not going to grab a ven and try it. Being taught the correct and safe ways (for both yourself and the snake) to get hands on with any elapid should be taught, particularly if your going to keep elapids. 

I would imagine most people on aps would be comfortable head grabbing any of their pythons, and the python's would probably tolerate it to some point as they have more human contact. Now how many people who have practiced with their python do you think would get bitten the first one or two times they tried to grab an elapid? I would think quite a few. Being a little nervous could be the difference between a successful head grab and successfully pumping your hand full of venom. 

The last thing our hobby needs is a bunch of people laying in hospital because they thought they could do something they shouldn't have been trying in the first place.


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## moosenoose (Feb 29, 2008)

I think the most important thing with keeping them (not that I do - but I plan to) is knowing what your options are if a bite ever occurs. Death Adders, tiapans and the like, are "exotic" species when it comes to states such as Victoria, yet are readily availible for purchase. "IF" a bite should occur, your choices of seeking "effective" medical assistance can be compromised serverely, as not every hospital in Victoria has the need to stock these specific anti-venoms. 

I believe that even though you'll get some weird looks from hospital staff in relation to this, I think it's imperitive that you notify your nearest hospital about the certain "exotic" species you plan to keep and whether they have the ability to handle a situation should it ever arise. JMO - safety first, as always.


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## jack (Feb 29, 2008)

ozzie p... i learnt from watching harry butler on tv! which makes me pretty much self taught, as would be many venomous keepers.... 
i am very glad i kept venomous species prior to the amnesty (nsw) as it seems quite difficult these days to get the license.. i personally would not let anyone learn with my animals...


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## Ozzie Python (Feb 29, 2008)

_


jack said:



ozzie p... i learnt from watching harry butler on tv! which makes me pretty much self taught, as would be many venomous keepers....

Click to expand...

_


jack said:


> _i am very glad i kept venomous species prior to the amnesty (nsw) as it seems quite difficult these days to get the license.. i personally would not let anyone learn with my animals..._


 


I would love to see you tell EPA that if you were applying for your licence.

My point exactly, you can't just go out in the bush and start picking up every elapid you see. But at the same time no-one is going to risk their collection being taken off them if one of their snakes bites someone other than the licenced keeper. There must be an easier way to gain enough experience these days.


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## MrSpike (Feb 29, 2008)

Den said:


> Swing me that mac of yours Kane and I'll cover you for two of the species you mentioned.....
> 
> .



Tempting, hmmmm.


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## voodoo (Feb 29, 2008)

Ozzie python, If i can remember correctly if you have a DMP for over 12 months you should be able to just apply for your specialist permit without any refs.


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