# Redlands Wildlife - HELP



## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

As you maybe aware Redlands Wildlife was established to fight for the protection of habitat for native wildlife in the Redlands area of South East Queensland.

Well, the fight is on to stop Redlands City Council trying to convert one of our few remaining wildlife refuges into a public place. 

Redlands City Council has, without consultation commenced survey work for a walkway / cycleway right through the heart of the West Eprapah Wildlife Refuge. We have seen the effects this has on native fauna & flora and with so few native habitats left, we are taking up the fight to stop this Council project.

Please visit our website at www.redlandswildlife.com and follow the links through to our West Eprapah Wildlife Refuge fight, read that facts for yourself and if you agree, please sign our online petition.

This is so much more than just a local issue, this has the potential to show all local councils that this wanton destruction of wildlife habitat will not be tolerated.

Thanks in advance for your support.


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## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

BUMP, Sorry, but this is important


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## imalizard (Aug 9, 2008)

I signed it, ive seen your site and I love all the wildlife!


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## CassM (Aug 9, 2008)

I also signed it! Hope it still counts even though I'm not in QLD


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## gman78 (Aug 9, 2008)

I used to live in that shire.
I signed and will get friends too


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## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks Imalizard & Cass M it is so much appreciated guys

All the best


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## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

gman78 said:


> I used to live in that shire.
> I signed and will get friends too


 
Thanks Gman


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## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

Bump


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## DanTheMan (Aug 9, 2008)

Signed!
Only 9 signatures!?! Some aren't even confirmed!
Cumon guys get signing!


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## dragon lady (Aug 9, 2008)

done!


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## mrmikk (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks Dan & Thank you Dragon Lady

As you say Dan it is important to confirm your signature, check your e-mail account and click on the link sent to you after signing to confirm.

Thanks again guys


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## croc_hunter_penny (Aug 10, 2008)

signed and confirmed


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## Khagan (Aug 10, 2008)

Signed and confirmed, hope you can do something before it's too late!


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## Danni (Aug 10, 2008)

signed and confirmed


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## Danni (Aug 10, 2008)

my partner and son has also signed


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## Danda_Reptilia (Aug 10, 2008)

Done and confirmed


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## Danni (Aug 10, 2008)

hmm my son didnt get an email...
i will check back later then


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## MDPython (Aug 10, 2008)

Signed and comfirmed happy to try help out!...


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## LullabyLizard (Aug 10, 2008)

Confirmed


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## jaih (Aug 10, 2008)

I signed it but didnt get an emailback yet.


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## Glider (Aug 10, 2008)

hmmmm... just a devils advocate point of view, but isn't creating a walking path/cycleway through the bushland a way for council to be able to use the land for public space while still retaining the important habitat?

I don't know if they plan to bulldoze the lot and turn it into lawn, which would be terrible, but if they're just going to run a paved, lit path through it perhaps its a way for council to justify keeping the bushland. It could also be an opportunity to make the community more aware of the beauty and importance of the habitat. And to that fact in the future when council is considering further development, if it already contains some paid-for infrastructure thats valued by a lot of the community as a pleasant people place will make them think and longer before allocating it to housing development, and you will have plenty more people on your side to fight it should that idea become a real possibility. 

Maybe instead of signing protests against it altogether it would be wiser to sign petitions to minimise damage to the habitat and offer to work with the council to help them use the land they have, while boosting community awareness of the habitat and preserving what is there. There are a lot of community awards for these types of projects, and councils love to be seen to be 'green' and getting media attention for the good things they're doing for their consitiuants. Use their motivators to get the best result you can.


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## Jewly (Aug 10, 2008)

Signed and confirmed.

While I don't live in the Redlands area, I do work there and I would hate to see the destruction of native land just for the sake of a walkway/bikeway. I would think there are enough areas for people to walk or cycle in the Redlands area already and they should just leave what little remaining bushland there is alone. 

Just on the graffiti issue that you raise on your website, I personally would rather see some decent artwork than a heap of scribble which a lot of the graffiti is. There is no way to stop the graffiti being done and the cost of removing it is huge and I'd rather council rates go towards something more productive. At least if the people doing the graffiti are given a place to be able to do it and they are able to take the time to do something half decent then they will take pride it in and not want to destroy it with mindless tags. I think it's a very good strategy myself.


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## waruikazi (Aug 10, 2008)

I like... no love the idea of cycle/walkways through bushland. It will help everyone in your area to appreciate the local flora and fauna without bushbashing their way through it.

Not signed! Some greenies really need to have a more open mind.

Your arguments for stopping this walkway don't even have anything to do with conservation???



> Evidence of this type of public access through covert bushland shows an increase in offences such as:
> 
> * Public & underage consumption of alcohol,
> * Wilful damage & destruction, such as graffiti,
> ...



http://www.redlandswildlife.com/WEST EPRAPAH.html


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> I like... no love the idea of cycle/walkways through bushland. It will help everyone in your area to appreciate the local flora and fauna without bushbashing their way through it.
> 
> Not signed! Some greenies really need to have a more open mind.
> 
> ...


 
Each to their own.

I have raised a number of detrimental issues perceived if the walkway goes ahead, you have quoted me on but one. It is a fact, there simply needs to be wildlife habitat for wildlife, without human interaction or interference. We alredy have evidence in our area of what happens when bushland habitat is opened up like this.

Council don't destroy bushland refuges here in one felll swoop, it is done step-by-step in methodical manner. A couple of years ago, they decided it was easier to run an underground sewer line through the reserve and bulldozed countless melalueca trees in the process, now this, what next?

It would be nice to think, _"It will help everyone in your area to appreciate the local flora and fauna without bushbashing their way through it." _this will be the case but reality is a lot different.

We have more parkland, comprising treed areas, ocean front land and the like than bushland refuges, this isn't even asking council to strike what would be an acceptable balance, it is asking them to leave what little we have left, alone.


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who has signed so far, it is greatly appreciated.

Page 25 of today's *Brisbane Courier Mail* shows exactly why we need to protect areas like this, without making them into transport corridors.

_"A female koala and her joey have escaped death for a second time after being attacked by a gang of youths in the north Brisbane suburb of Kallangur last week. _

_Australian Wildlife Hospital staff said the mother and joey were hit by a car and hospitalised in February. _

_On Friday night the koala named Mary, and her offspring were again tken into care when a 15-strong ganag of youths aged between 20 and 25 pelted them with rocks and sticks. _

_A Hospital spokeswoman said a Kallangur resident, identified only as Glenn, was walking his dogs in Jim Akers Park when he saw he group harassing the koalas. _

_Hospital staff and volunteer wildlife rescuers Anika and Hnk Lehmann were called to save the stricken animals. _

_They also discovered the body of a second koala joey in a council bin. 'A resident said she'd seen the same gang kill a joey and throw it in the bin', Mrs Lehmann said. _

_An autopsy revealed that the dead joey weighed just 345g, suffered a broken right arm, crushed skull and a damaged eye. _

_Hospital staff said Mary and her joey Toyah were traumatised by the attack but suffered no life threatening injuries."_


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## redbellybite (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree with Waruikazi, if its just to put a walk way through the area ,you will get more people observing wildlife at its intended natures way of living....sometimes its better to compromise then fully object..your arguments are realistic to a point but all that activity that you opose can still happen wether there is a pathway put through it or not ......sick sad world we live in ........if its to totally bulldoze through bushland then I dont agree,and would like you to state exactly what the councils intentions are before i sign.....


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> ... would like you to state exactly what the councils intentions are before i sign.....


 

I would like to know what council's exact intenions are too


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## Dan19 (Aug 10, 2008)

For some people, the confirmation email goes into the junk folder.


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## i_LoVe_AnImAlS (Aug 10, 2008)

bump


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## Danni (Aug 10, 2008)

yeh it does, in one case but not the other ...still havent received an email 





Dan19 said:


> For some people, the confirmation email goes into the junk folder.


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## FNQ_Snake (Aug 10, 2008)

Done and done.


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## croc_hunter_penny (Aug 10, 2008)

Any kind of disturbance in bushland can scare away animals, especially something like a pathway that would have a considerably high volume of traffic. The percentage of animals that would live within 10m-20m of that pathway would be greatly reduced in comparison to how many would live in that same area without the pathway. 
Even if the council don't clear a single tree, and make the pathway between the existing trees, the impact on the surrounding area from laying the path down and from continued use, would not be worth it.

There are loads of places to go walking, I don't feel it necessary to disturb the wildlife refuges for a new walking track.


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## redbellybite (Aug 10, 2008)

YES AGREED, but you also have to take into account ,if you dont have human interaction and basically get amongst the bushlife itself alot of people live in their own little world and the only time ever exposed to nature is on TV or a zoo.By building pathways and walkways where people can do as they do and be a part of nature while doing it ,you will in the end ,get better support as people learn to appreciate what they have when exposed to it ......if done correctly there is minimal effect on the wildlife and before any construction goes ahead ,they by law ,should be contacting parks and wildlife and get a spotter catcher out there for the wildlife ..........in the long run it works if done correctly........


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> YES AGREED, but you also have to take into account ,if you dont have human interaction and basically get amongst the bushlife itself alot of people live in their own little world and the only time ever exposed to nature is on TV or a zoo.By building pathways and walkways where people can do as they do and be a part of nature while doing it ,you will in the end ,get better support as people learn to appreciate what they have when exposed to it ......if done correctly there is minimal effect on the wildlife and before any construction goes ahead ,they by law ,should be contacting parks and wildlife and get a spotter catcher out there for the wildlife ..........in the long run it works if done correctly........


 
You make some very valid points Red Belly, but Redland City Council has shown in the past that they do not undertake these projects properly and we see the results here all too often.

For those of you who haven't received a confirmation e-mail, you need to make sure that you enter your e-mail address correctly, otherwise the server can't send your confirmation e-mail.

Thanks again to all those who have signed and thanks also to those willing to give alternative opinions, a healthy, informed debate is a good one and I don't expect everyone to agree or follow my line of thought on this.


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## Nagraj (Aug 10, 2008)

Remnants of pristine undisturbed bushland are essential for the natural re-stocking of surrounding less pristine areas. Without these pockets the surrounding areas quickly become devoid of diversity and only species tolerant of human encroachment remain.

Read Flannery's The Future Eaters for further reference.


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## DA_GRIZ (Aug 10, 2008)

i just signed it and will get my family and friends to sign it


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## Miss_Croft (Aug 10, 2008)

Mrmikk – I personally cannot see how a walking/cycling path through a wildlife refuge will impact Koala, swamp and redneck wallabies, whipbirds and tusked frogs. I can see it opening up the bush land to people – this will allow the common Moreton Bay person to see some of the elusive wildlife (like some that you described.)

I also had a look at your site. You call yourself a conservation group – But you have done nothing for any animal or plant except complain about habitat destruction and what the council is doing. Some things you might like to consider:
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Creating a community indigenous nursery to grow indigenous trees, grasses and other plant – you can sell some to raise money for the running of your group and plant out others in re-vegetation programs (Creation of NEW habitat) 
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Determining what food the local indigenous animals eat and make sure there is food around for the entire year 
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Creation of nesting boxes for the local wildlife
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Turtles – You have said over 200 die due to human activities – why not investigate creating a turtle breeding program – where your group artificially incubates the eggs – raises the babies - and release them back into the bay. Last time I saw Turtles hatching – Most got taken by birds. 

Stop complaining about what is happening and DO something for what you claim to stand up for.


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## PeeGee (Aug 10, 2008)

signed and confirmed


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

Miss_Croft said:


> Mrmikk – I personally cannot see how a walking/cycling path through a wildlife refuge will impact Koala, swamp and redneck wallabies, whipbirds and tusked frogs. I can see it opening up the bush land to people – this will allow the common Moreton Bay person to see some of the elusive wildlife (like some that you described.)
> 
> I also had a look at your site. You call yourself a conservation group – But you have done nothing for any animal or plant except complain about habitat destruction and what the council is doing. Some things you might like to consider:
> ·Creating a community indigenous nursery to grow indigenous trees, grasses and other plant – you can sell some to raise money for the running of your group and plant out others in re-vegetation programs (Creation of NEW habitat)
> ...


 
*Whoa!* 

Excuse me, I am only too happy to listen to the opinions of others and I am by no means trying to force my views on others, in fact I welcome alternative and diverse points of view.

But, when you tell me you have looked at my site and I do nothing, you obviously haven't looked at it very closely. 

I have started and convene a local volunteer bushcare regeneration group, that is affiliated with my local council. Every second weekend, we as a group give up our time to remove rubbish, weeds and re-vegetate this very area of wildlife refuge I am referring to.

I have invested a lot of my own time and money to establish and maintain the Redlands Wildlife website as a source of information for the community to raise awareness of our local native fauna.

I just spent the entire weekend distributing information and talking to local residents, members of council and government on the very issue of the WEWR.

I have created feeding and nesting points for local fauna in my area.

I don't want or expect any praise for my efforts from anyone, it is enough to see local native wildlife enjoying their habitat, that is thanks enough. But when someone like yourself tells me, 

_"But you have done nothing for any animal or plant except complain about habitat destruction and what the council is doing"._ 

That gets my back up!!!


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

croc_hunter_penny said:


> Any kind of disturbance in bushland can scare away animals, especially something like a pathway that would have a considerably high volume of traffic. The percentage of animals that would live within 10m-20m of that pathway would be greatly reduced in comparison to how many would live in that same area without the pathway.
> Even if the council don't clear a single tree, and make the pathway between the existing trees, the impact on the surrounding area from laying the path down and from continued use, would not be worth it.
> 
> There are loads of places to go walking, I don't feel it necessary to disturb the wildlife refuges for a new walking track.


 
Exactly right CHP.

Some animals thrive in co-habitation with humans, eg Ibis, pigeons, rainbow lorikeets. However most don't, our native fauna are mostly timid and do not interact well with humans, such as koalas, wallabies, whipbirds etc...


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## [email protected] (Aug 10, 2008)

done


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## mrmikk (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks Steve


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## waruikazi (Aug 11, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> Remnants of pristine undisturbed bushland are essential for the natural re-stocking of surrounding less pristine areas. Without these pockets the surrounding areas quickly become devoid of diversity and only species tolerant of human encroachment remain.
> 
> Read Flannery's The Future Eaters for further reference.



Dude! They aren't turning the whole bushland into a walkway, just enough of it for a... walkway! So instead of one pocket there will be two pockets!


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## Eriquar (Aug 11, 2008)

I live on the Redcliffe Peninsula, but think all wildlife habitat needs saving, where ever it is..

Signed and Confirmed

Keep up the good work


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## Nagraj (Aug 11, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Dude! They aren't turning the whole bushland into a walkway, just enough of it for a... walkway! So instead of one pocket there will be two pockets!





Dude!! Two small ecosystems are not the equivalent of one big one for some species.


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## waruikazi (Aug 11, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> Dude!! Two small ecosystems are not the equivalent of one big one for some species.



So none of these species can cross a 2m patch of walkway?


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## redbellybite (Aug 11, 2008)

you guys have to be real.......how many WILDLIFE creatures were put off ,by where you live in your nice little home ,all cosy? .......as long as the development is kept to a minimal and thats why it was commented would like to know exactly what the council is going to construct.....waruikazi wasnt agreeing with total distruction and wipe out endangerd species..it was a simple suggestion that if its just a walkway then he doesnt have a problem with that and neither do I......you all are guilty of eco invasion .......everytime you step onto a beach ,onto grass, swim in the sea etc you have a small impact on that area ....


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## Nagraj (Aug 11, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> So none of these species can cross a 2m patch of walkway?




You have missed the point. There are some species which require a certain buffer size to remain viable and having human traffic through their midst would cause their local demise.

As I said, read Flannery's book for further reference.


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## Nagraj (Aug 11, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> ......you all are guilty of eco invasion .......everytime you step onto a beach ,onto grass, swim in the sea etc you have a small impact on that area ....




Ah the old rape and pillage logic. Because we impact here, we might as well do it there as well and make it all equal ay?


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## waruikazi (Aug 11, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> Ah the old rape and pillage logic. Because we impact here, we might as well do it there as well and make it all equal ay?



Nope 

we need to give people the opportunity to see what they are rape and pilliaging for them to realize it is worth saving. What better way to do this than by giving them access to an area full of natural biodiversity in a sustainable manner???


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## Nagraj (Aug 11, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> What better way to do this than by giving them access to an area full of natural biodiversity in a sustainable manner???





Which is exactly my point, it may not be sustainable depending on the existing conditions therein and there are almost certainly places locally already established for just such usage. Why not leave one intact?


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## salebrosus (Aug 11, 2008)

In accordance with the Integrated Planning Act 1997, Operatonal Works conducted by Council is actually exempt development. I only know this as one of my developments is on Council land, upon a site inspection recently i found that every Queensland Blue Gum and two other Corymbia species had been completely destroyed. I spat the dummy only to be told there really wasn't much i could do about it as it was exempt development.

I'm not trying to crush you guys but don't get your hopes up about being able to stop this. Contact local Councillor's and seek their support. and suggest that maybe working with Council's Parks and Gardens might achieve a better outcome than the one you believe your facing now.


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## urodacus_au (Aug 11, 2008)

Your wrong Waruikazi, you obviously havent seen the effect walkways can have on reserves. It creates another introduction point for weeds and rubbish as well as more subtle disturbances like wind penetration etc. On top of that is the disturbance of the animals themselves. Ive seen a few local reserves go this way, looking at them now they might aswell have been bulldozed. Theyre good for nothing but people running their dogs off lead now.

This is especially true of small reserves where the effect is greater, what little left needs to be left untouched if its to be of any value from a conservation point of view. Google 'The Edge Effect', it explains what im talking about better than i can.

Mrmikk, might be worth changing the subject line of the confirmation e-mail to something more descriptive or substantial, it got nabbed by my spam filter.

Jordan


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## waruikazi (Aug 11, 2008)

urodacus_au said:


> Your wrong Waruikazi, you obviously havent seen the effect walkways can have on reserves. It creates another introduction point for weeds and rubbish as well as more subtle disturbances like wind penetration etc. On top of that is the disturbance of the animals themselves. Ive seen a few local reserves go this way, looking at them now they might aswell have been bulldozed. Theyre good for nothing but people running their dogs off lead now.
> 
> This is especially true of small reserves where the effect is greater, what little left needs to be left untouched if its to be of any value from a conservation point of view. Google 'The Edge Effect', it explains what im talking about better than i can.
> 
> ...



The we have two extremely different experiences of reserves/nature parks that have walkways.


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## melgalea (Aug 11, 2008)

just signed it, how could i not 
mel


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## mrmikk (Aug 11, 2008)

zoocam said:


> just signed it, how could i not
> mel


 
Thanks Mel


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## mrmikk (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks to all who have signed so far, still going though................


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## mrmikk (Aug 13, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> you guys have to be real.......how many WILDLIFE creatures were put off ,by where you live in your nice little home ,all cosy? .......as long as the development is kept to a minimal and thats why it was commented would like to know exactly what the council is going to construct.....waruikazi wasnt agreeing with total distruction and wipe out endangerd species..it was a simple suggestion that if its just a walkway then he doesnt have a problem with that and neither do I......you all are guilty of eco invasion .......everytime you step onto a beach ,onto grass, swim in the sea etc you have a small impact on that area ....


 
It is not only the development itself that poses a problem, it is the behaviour thereafter that is the main problem. I have shown evidence of this on my website.

Yes we are all guilty of eco-invasion, to different extents.


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## kakariki (Aug 13, 2008)

Signed & confirmed. When will humans learn! We do not have the right to destroy nature. Nor do we have the right to just preserve that which is useful to us. The bush belongs to the creatures who live there & we are the intruders into their world. We don't have to own everything!!! mrmikk, you should be proud of yourself & the other volunteers who are working so hard for natures rights. You are doing a fantastic job & I, for one, applaud you all!


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## waruikazi (Aug 13, 2008)

*standing ovation*


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## tooninoz (Aug 13, 2008)

MrMikk, it must be tough to have to persist in your efforts to save this portion of natural bush in the face of the foolish, the ignorant, and the just plain stupid.

I would have thought that people on this forum, a herp forum, would have at least have some basic understanding/love of their local ecosystem. 

Proved wrong.Warikuazzi (however it is spelt...) suggests that paving wildlife areas will make it more accessible to the general public.

Yes. It will. It will also bring every moron with a deire to walk/cycle via their SUV to litter and disturb the local wildlife.

As Croc Hunter Penny said;
Even if the council don't clear a single tree, and make the pathway between the existing trees, the impact on the surrounding area from laying the path down and from continued use, would not be worth it.

That is counteracted by RedBellyBite;
YES AGREED, but you also have to take into account ,if you dont have human interaction and basically get amongst the bushlife itself alot of people live in their own little world and the only time ever exposed to nature is on TV or a zoo.By building pathways and walkways where people can do as they do and be a part of nature while doing it ,you will in the end ,get better support as people learn to appreciate what they have when exposed to it ......if done correctly there is minimal effect on the wildlife and before any construction goes ahead ,they by law ,should be contacting parks and wildlife and get a spotter catcher out there for the wildlife ..........in the long run it works if done correctly.......

No. Like my protests against Cr Jade Hurleys' suggestion that we should build a chairliftt up Mt. Warning. 

Protect the corridors you have!
Oh, signed and confirmed


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## waruikazi (Aug 13, 2008)

tooninoz said:


> M
> 
> Proved wrong.Warikuazzi (however it is spelt...) suggests that paving wildlife areas will make it more accessible to the general public.
> 
> Yes. It will. It will also bring every moron with a deire to walk/cycle via their SUV to litter and disturb the local wildlife.



How do you propose people get acquainted with their local native habitat if not for a 'corridor' they can access? Would you sooner them go trudging through the bush with their dogs and rubbish, spreading weeds everywhere? Or have a safe access way where they can develop an appreciation of what we are trying to save??

I think you'll find that if the public have a use, connection or an appreciation of/with this bushland they will be far more likely to oppose any kind of mass development in that area such as high rise buildings, houses etc. I never said it wouldn't have detrimental effects on some plants and animals but i think the longer term benefits will far outweigh any of the potential short term displacement of our natives. 

Look at for example the NT's windows to the wetlands. Before those walkways and boardwalks were developed who in the general public knew how important and beautiful these areas were? 

It's over the top greenies pushing every little parcel they have, most of which are not worth pushing, that loses all of the other conservationists credibility when a really important matter arises. Look at the bigger picture and work out which battles are the really important ones.


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## tooninoz (Aug 13, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> How do you propose people get acquainted with their local native habitat if not for a 'corridor' they can access? Would you sooner them go trudging through the bush with their dogs and rubbish, spreading weeds everywhere? Or have a safe access way where they can develop an appreciation of what we are trying to save??
> 
> I think you'll find that if the public have a use, connection or an appreciation of/with this bushland they will be far more likely to oppose any kind of mass development in that area such as high rise buildings, houses etc. I never said it wouldn't have detrimental effects on some plants and animals but i think the longer term benefits will far outweigh any of the potential short term displacement of our natives.
> 
> ...



That may be the case in the NT, waruikazi, where you are lucky enough to have some protection of your local ecosystem. Shame that you allow boardwalks etc through your nature areas, but hey, I guess not all of us have the stomach for a fight.
"How are the general public going to know how beautiful nature is?" I cant answer that one mate. I would have thought it were a rhetorical question personally.
Umm... wait til Foxtel lays off on their coverage of the Olympics? Wait til they need an avenue for an Australian adventure??
Dont know how to respond to that logic!? 
Stumped..:|


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## waruikazi (Aug 13, 2008)

tooninoz said:


> Umm... wait til Foxtel lays off on their coverage of the Olympics? Wait til they need an avenue for an Australian adventure??
> Dont know how to respond to that logic!?
> Stumped..:|



Maybe you should let all your snakes go and suffice for pictures, no wait videos of them so you can see them moving. If you honestly think that TV is a good enough replacement for the real thing you're an easy person to please. What do you mean a shame we allow boardwalks? Do you think the environment would handle it better if hundreds of people go trudging through the swamps? Have you ever been here to see the good that it actually does?

By the way I/we in the territory have plenty stomach for a fight champ, ever heard about the plans for a nuclear dump around our parts? That is something worth fighting for and so far we have stopped it. Besides which i have done plenty for conservation in my area through both education and action. 

I'm glad i got you stumped, cause that means you have no logical rebuttal to my arguments.


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## kakariki (Aug 13, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> How do you propose people get acquainted with their local native habitat if not for a 'corridor' they can access? Would you sooner them go trudging through the bush with their dogs and rubbish, spreading weeds everywhere? Or have a safe access way where they can develop an appreciation of what we are trying to save??
> 
> I think you'll find that if the public have a use, connection or an appreciation of/with this bushland they will be far more likely to oppose any kind of mass development in that area such as high rise buildings, houses etc. I never said it wouldn't have detrimental effects on some plants and animals but i think the longer term benefits will far outweigh any of the potential short term displacement of our natives.
> 
> ...




I thought that is what National Parks were for? So people could learn an appreciation of the bush without having to go into the bush? Most our native wildlife are incredibly shy & are easily terrified by human interaction. Why open up yet another area just for people to abuse, because once you get walkways/ cycleways, the idiots will misuse them. And has been said, there are more than enough areas for people to go and enjoy. Places where the animals are used to people & are kept there for just that purpose. Not all of the wetlands have been boardwalked. There are still plenty of areas untouched & hopefully, will stay that way.
And to comment on your last little gem! Every little parcel IS important. Take your own advice & look at the bigger picture!


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## Vincey (Aug 13, 2008)

Signed and confirmed. =]


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## tooninoz (Aug 13, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Maybe you should let all your snakes go and suffice for pictures, no wait videos of them so you can see them moving. If you honestly think that TV is a good enough replacement for the real thing you're an easy person to please. What do you mean a shame we allow boardwalks? Do you think the environment would handle it better if hundreds of people go trudging through the swamps? Have you ever been here to see the good that it actually does?
> 
> By the way I/we in the territory have plenty stomach for a fight champ, ever heard about the plans for a nuclear dump around our parts? That is something worth fighting for and so far we have stopped it. Besides which i have done plenty for conservation in my area through both education and action.
> 
> I'm glad i got you stumped, cause that means you have no logical rebuttal to my arguments.



waruikazi, if I had to explain it, you just wouldnt understand.


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## mrmikk (Aug 13, 2008)

Thaks Tooninoz, Kakariki & Vince for your support.

I am sorry you are so hard against what I am trying to save Waruikazi, but, anyway, you are entitled to your opinion and I won't criticize you for that.

National Parks are wonderful places and because they are generally distant from suburbia they generally attract people who genuinely want to enjoy them. On the other hand the few remaining wildlife refuges in suburbia that are opened up to all and sundry attract other people to use these covert area for there own benefit. We have seen it time and time again in our area, and all we ask is that the wildlife that live in this refuge be left to do so in peace.

We have ample parkland, ocean front walkways and the like for humans to enjoy, all I am asking council to do here is consider our native fauna and flora for a change.

A council that has a Koala as a logo, yet contuinues to destroy their habitat, so that experts predict they will be extinct in our area by 2015, to me is just plain wrong.


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2008)

tooninoz said:


> waruikazi, if I had to explain it, you just wouldnt understand.



No it's because you can't explain it. 

I guess we may have to agree to disagree, it's like talking to a brick wall with some of you. Mrmikk, if yo do manage to stop this walkway i really hope your beloved bushland doesn't get bulldozed in the next 10 years to make way for new development.


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## redbellybite (Aug 14, 2008)

the problem Mrmikk is with what your trying to save and i do sympathise with you ,is if by chance you get a hold put on that land now ....what seems to happen is down the track when development and the almighty dollar rise its ugly heads ,this place that has had no human involvement is usually looked upon as waste land and easily gulped up in the construction but like waruikazi and I have been trying to say is if you compromise now and find a way to get people involved with JUST a walkway being built now, if that ugly situation ever comes ahead down the track you will have a better chance of saving it as more people will be aware of it and want to help in the saving of fauna and flora ....its like knowing that traffic lights are needed but untill there is enough quota of deaths and accidents it doesnt happen so better to get a give way in now then nothing.........and walkways and nature courses have worked through alot of our nature area's .FAR NORTH QLD has wonderful ones that you can actually interact with alot of the wildlife ,we have them in lots of places which have helped save the areas as people get educated and a pashion to save something that they can feel involved in ,seeing on TV just doesnt give the impact ,whale watching on tv doesnt help make people as aware,but getting them out on boats and showing them how beautiful they are does..best of luck with your fight ...


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## mrmikk (Aug 15, 2008)

Just a quiet bump, for those that may not have seen this yet.

Thanks everyone for your support.


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## pete12 (Aug 15, 2008)

done and done


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## Tim.Arm (Aug 15, 2008)

*Signed it mate.*


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## mrmikk (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks Pete, Thanks Timmo


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## mrmikk (Aug 15, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> No it's because you can't explain it.
> 
> I guess we may have to agree to disagree, it's like talking to a brick wall with some of you. Mrmikk, if yo do manage to stop this walkway i really hope your beloved bushland doesn't get bulldozed in the next 10 years to make way for new development.


 
Why does that appear to me like that is 'said' tongue-in-cheek'?, Not that it bothers me, just surprised as to why you are so hell bent against my point. Anyway, your view, so.......

I hope it doesn't get bulldozed in the next 10 years too to make way for development, but I am not going to sit on my you know what and say, oh to hell with it, it will probably get annihilated in a couple of years for a housing estate!


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2008)

mrmikk said:


> Why does that appear to me like that is 'said' tongue-in-cheek'?, Not that it bothers me, just surprised as to why you are so hell bent against my point. Anyway, your view, so.......



No it wasn't tongue in cheek at all, I stand by all the points i have made. Seriously i'm not having a go right now. Read the points that i have made, if the area is flagged for development (which is the major point i got from reading your website) the only way you will stop this development is by having community support. Right now you seem only to have support from the APS extended family, which will do sod all. 

I think having a trackway/walkway through your local bush, where your community can appreciate the worth of your local area, is one of the best ways to do this. Of course it's going to have an effect on the some of the plants and animals, but i think you need to think of the greater good. That is my point.

Does it really effect me? No, not really. Do i care? Maybe just a little. I would just like people to think more about these situations and not instantly jump on the green bandwagon and think all development is the worse development.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2008)

And i am actually really surprised that more people don't understand my point.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2008)

And you're welcome for the free 'bump'.


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## della91 (Aug 15, 2008)

Alrighty.... signed


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## Nagraj (Aug 15, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> And i am actually really surprised that more people don't understand my point.





I'm sure that everyone understands your point.
However, while your point is generally correct, it is not acceptable for every situation and maybe you need to understand other peoples point and accept that just maybe this is one of those exceptions.


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## Danni (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi MrMikk, i was on an auction forum (no not ebay) and they were talking about the poor koala's so i posted your website and the petition they can sign if they wish.
here's hoping it will give you a few more names, if its not too late .


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