# Replacement Python WITH WORMS AGAIN



## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

Well as most of you know i purchased a python last month, It died within 11 days after purchase. Autopsy showed the python was riddled with worms which caused the death as they perforated the bowel causing infection and then death. 

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/autopsy-of-snake-completed-95287

The seller refused to give money back.

So instead i was given a replacement python.

I took the animal to the vet to be evaluated and opted to worm it to be on the safe side.

Well i wormed it this week and today it defecated. Within the faeces numerous dead worms yet again. I will worm it again as advised by the vet to ensure its 100% free of worms.

As i have stated before i will never go back to this seller. However i suggest anyone purchasing reptiles in Victoria research very carefully who you are getting them off or you will be burned like myself and about 10 other forum members when it comes to this seller.

DUE TO FORUM RULES I AM AGAIN UNABLE TO NAME SELLER.

However will do so in pm which is allowed.


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

I personally feel people who sell sick reptiles like this damage and turn people away from reptile keeping.


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## Lewy (Nov 16, 2008)

This seller should not be allowed to sell anymore its just wrong 

Hope all go's well with the new littel guy

Lewy


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## funcouple (Nov 16, 2008)

glad that you wormed it. id risk a ban on here and name this seller and i hope you have informed the rspca and whom ever handles reptile licencing in your state (victoria?)


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

I am confident the new snake will be fine once i finish worm treatment she is a fantastic eater and i dont think the worms are advanced as the other python that died.

Thank god i never purchased a blackhead, woma or green tree python of this seller. I probably would not have even got a replacement as these animals are at the higher end of the price scale.


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## junglepython2 (Nov 16, 2008)

Was it a petshop?


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

Not a traditional pet shop as such.

One of the biggest sellers in Victoria and Aus when it comes to reptiles.


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## JasonL (Nov 16, 2008)

Somehow, this didn't suprise me.........


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## Sel (Nov 16, 2008)

Sorry to hear that, hope it all works out.
Is the person on this site??


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

I dont believe this seller is affiliated with this site in anyway.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 16, 2008)

If they are one of the biggest sellers in Vic and Oz then I reckon they should have given your money back. It's not like it was thousands of $ and they didn't want to lose the money. Usually it is the larger well known places that give refunds as they have a rep to uphold and they can afford it. JMO.
I hope all goes well and in the end the snake is better off in your hands than theirs anyway. Good luck.


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## Mrs I (Nov 16, 2008)

Disgusting, you would think they would have been 100% sure about sending a second snake free from worms after the first experience.


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## Reptilian (Nov 16, 2008)

should get the vet consultation thingo (proof) and make them also pay for the treatment...


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## kensai (Nov 16, 2008)

Hope you reported the SOB to national parks and the RSPCA


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## snakelvr (Nov 16, 2008)

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. :evil: Hope your new little girl thrives...... she's certainly in better hands now. Good luck.


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## Kris (Nov 16, 2008)

If he refunded all the money due to selling dying animals he'd be broke.

Sorry to hear that this one turned out to be sick too, but you know we aren't suprprised.


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## Helikaon (Nov 16, 2008)

yes not to good of news but at least worms are easily treated. although everyone screaming for retribution should take a step back and ask themselves when was the last time they took all their reptiles in to have a fecal sample examined. you may just be surprised. granted to the point where the reptile is sick is something extra, but symptoms arent always that obvious.


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## jamgo (Nov 16, 2008)

Alot of animals get worms i don't see what the big deal is ...its like helikaon said if you got a fecal sample examined from your other reptiles you may just be surprised.Its ashame you had to lose the first one.I worm all new snakes and my other snakes once a year and haven't had a problem since i started this.


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## CodeRed (Nov 16, 2008)

The shop you bought it from is renowned for laundering wild caught snakes. I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.


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## Nagraj (Nov 16, 2008)

jamgo said:


> ... i don't see what the big deal is ...




The big deal is, in good faith, he paid money for a quality product and received a defective product which was subsequently replaced with another defective product. Under Aussie law the retailer is liable for the quality of the products they sell.

Reptiles don't just get worms out of thin air nor do they usually die from them. There is obviously a husbandry problem at the suppliers end and the retailer has now had his reputation severely damaged (again) by not ensuring his stocks health.


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## Reptilian (Nov 16, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> The big deal is, in good faith, he paid money for a quality product and received a defective product which was subsequently replaced with another defective product. Under Aussie law the retailer is liable for the quality of the products they sell.
> 
> Reptiles don't just get worms out of thin air nor do they usually die from them. There is obviously a husbandry problem at the suppliers end and the retailer has now had his reputation severely damaged (again) by not ensuring his stocks health.


 
Well Said!!! and being the SECOND "defective" animal, I think that the supplier should pay for the medical/worm treatment... If the animal came back clear of any issues, and got worms from his collection, then thats a diff story...I dont know how much he paid, but ANYTHING to do with reptiles/herps are generally alot more than other animal related stuff (In my experience) and so when we buy reptiles, we pay decent/good prices and should expect AT LEAST healthy animals in return... And for it to happen twice in a row, is just not good enough!!!:evil:

Regards...
Ash...


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## jamgo (Nov 16, 2008)

Its an animal not a product Nagraj .. and i didn't say they got them out of thin air .. i was saying animals do get worms because horsesrule seem surpise that the second snake had worms.


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## pythons73 (Nov 16, 2008)

So Jamgo,you worm your snakes every year,worm the new ones straight away.I ask a question not so long ago and a member said that you shouldnt worm your reptiles if you havent got a problem,so wouldnt worming them be a good thing to do, b4 they even got in the first place..


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

CodeRed said:


> The shop you bought it from is renowned for laundering wild caught snakes. I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.


 

I wasnt aware of this at the time however i am quite certain now from the autopsy results the first animal (which died) was a wild caught snake.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 16, 2008)

jamgo said:


> Its an animal not a product Nagraj .. and i didn't say they got them out of thin air .. i was saying animals do get worms because horsesrule seem surpise that the second snake had worms.


 
wow wow wow - well wouldn't you be surprised if you purchased a snake and it died 11 days after having it( I doubt it would have survived if it had been wormed as soon as it was with the new owner - it must have had a Major infestation) then when you get a replacement snake(which means the seller knew they had a dodgy snake or they would not have given a replacement) and do the right thing and take it to the vet only to find that SURPRISE SURPRISE it has worms also.

The seller is dodgy and obviously does not care about the animals just the money they make! Please don't make silly comments such as " I don't see the big deal" read the post again and do a search on worms! horsesrule has done the right thing and is allowing people the chance to avoid a seller who is likely to rip you off.


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

I have sent an email requesting the vet consult and medication costs to be covered. 

Me and my partner are now considering taking legal action if the seller refuses to reimburse us.

It may well be worth paying the 60 odd dolllars or so to take this issue to the magistrates court then this would be a public matter and this seller could be named in this forum. 

I will await the response from the seller.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 16, 2008)

Helikaon said:


> yes not to good of news but at least worms are easily treated. although everyone screaming for retribution should take a step back and ask themselves when was the last time they took all their reptiles in to have a fecal sample examined. you may just be surprised. granted to the point where the reptile is sick is something extra, but symptoms arent always that obvious.


 

I understand your point but this has nothing to do with other people just the seller who sold a snake riddled with worms.
Are you saying that if it had been taken to the vet as soon as horserules got it it would have survived? - I cant believe that this hobby will come to having to take all new snakes to the vet for a check over to cover someone else's negligence.
I dont think anyone should condone selling a snake that infested with worms.


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## Lewy (Nov 16, 2008)

horsesrule said:


> I have sent an email requesting the vet consult and medication costs to be covered.
> 
> Me and my partner are now considering taking legal action if the seller refuses to reimburse us.
> 
> ...


 

Good on you, people shouldn't get away with this crap:evil:


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 16, 2008)

The vast majority of captive snakes have some sort of parasite burden. Generally, if kept in clean conditions and in correctly heated enclosure, they will exist with these burdens easily. However, if they are stressed, or kept in less than ideal conditions or unable to thermoregulate properly, these burdens will multiply quickly and can result in a dead snake very easily. 

Due to the nature of a lot of these reptile "resellers", a lot of the above applies to their animals...stress, inability to thermoregulate etc...so parasite infestations are far more prevalent in animals purchased from them. This is why it is advisable to worm new snakes immediately upon arrival, and to purchase from breeders rather than resellers/pet shops to avoid unecessary stress on the animal.


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## JasonL (Nov 16, 2008)

horsesrule said:


> I wasnt aware of this at the time however i am quite certain now from the autopsy results the first animal (which died) was a wild caught snake.



It could of just been fed skinks to get it feeding when it was younger, often large outlets buy in whole clutches from various sources to fill orders ect.. so you really have no idea where they come from or how they have been looked after.


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## ambah (Nov 16, 2008)

The petshop in question feeds live rodents to all it's young snakes :|


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

ambah said:


> The petshop in question feeds live rodents to all it's young snakes :|


 

Well i never knew that.

I dont think thats something they tell people.


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## ambah (Nov 16, 2008)

horsesrule said:


> Well i never knew that.
> 
> I dont think thats something they tell people.


 
It's not, I found out by "accident"

I asked to see a variety of pythons, bredli's, diamond's & bhp's.. they "forgot" to remove the little rats (that hadnt yet been eaten) running around inside the click clacks before bringing them out for me to look at. They said "oops, you weren't supposed to see that." :shock:


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

The more i hear the more i am disenchanted. 

Its no wonder so many people give up keeping herps.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Nov 16, 2008)

Wow! People who pull that carp should be prosecuted! Both for ripping you off and for keeping animals in obviously poor conditions (well, either kept in poor conditions or wild caught, either is un-acceptable!). Wish you all the best in you pursuit of restitution mate!


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## lightning (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm not sure if anyone has asked, but what sort of python did you buy?
Not that it makes a difference really.

Buying from breeders is the only way to go in my opinion, though even then your not safe from this sort of thing. 
Guess the real leason here to everyone is to make sure they worm their reptiles, now those that didn't know how important it is will make sure they do.


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

The first snake (deceased) was a yearling / sub adult coastal.

The replacement was a sub adult coastal as well.

I am lucky that i never purchased a more expensive snake from this seller. 

In saying that it wasnt cheap either i did pay a higher than normal price for it.


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## Dan123 (Nov 16, 2008)

you were that smart u figured if you got a similar snake from the same seller you would be given a totaly clean one?
did the seller ever gaurente you this new one would not have worms?
honestly.....what did u expect ?????????


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

First of all i never wanted a replacement Dan, i wanted my money back the seller refused. 

I had no choice so it had nothing to do with being smart or not.

Secondly i honestly thought the seller would be smarter than what he has been.

I expected the seller to do the right LEGAL thing and exchange it with a clean healthy animal free of worms. 

I had not been to this seller before and will never again.

Further to that this seller is supposed to be reputable.


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## Dan123 (Nov 16, 2008)

then take legal action or if thats to much hassle and headache ontop of what you have had then find a way to make there identity known so you can rest easier knowing you have lost them alot of sales and they will be fully regretting what they have done and hopefully pick up there game . dont let someone screw u round and just laugh in your face by giving you another dodgy snake they would of well and truly know was infected.


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## dizzy (Nov 16, 2008)

this pales into insignificance compared to some horror stories in the industry but this is no doubt a bad case that we should all be wary about. i wish we were able to make the seller known to protect others from this shonky dealer.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 16, 2008)

Maybe it's a good thing reptiles are not sold in 'pet shops' in NSW (as yet). Straight from the breeder to the buyer and no in between. Less stress on the animal and hopefully a clearer view of the animal's history in regards to health, feeding etc.


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## mattyandnat (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up horsesrule i am glad i found out who it was as i have seen this seller recomended bfore and would have purchased animals from them had i not heard this 
Thanks


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## solar 17 (Nov 16, 2008)

*worming herps*

l agree with "johno from erd" on this worming, and l am definately not anti vet but l think lts fair to say that faecal [droppings] testing is not fool proof either, the best way considered by most ls to worm your pet out and repeat this [12] days later to break the egg laying [gestation] cycle as some of our parasites [worms] have the capacity to lay 200,000 eggs in a cycle and yes they have a large mortality but 200,000 ls a lot of potential parasites,some of our more lethal parasites can lay up to 20,000 eggs in a cycle and lf this group has a 99% mortality rate thats still 400 potential parasites.....my suggestion is to worm-out twice [twelve days apart]....cheers solar 17 [Baden]


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## Wild_Storm (Nov 16, 2008)

Well I looked at purchasing a BHP from that shop, and they were slack with getting me the pictures I requested. I did ask them about live feeding over frozen, and they told me they fed live. Mind you at the time I thought live feeding was THE way to go... I found the snakes did not look at all like they were described to me... So I think you have every right to be very peeved and seek re-imbursement and if they don't, then by all means take it further. I am very sorry to hear of what happened to you. It is a sad world we live in when people aren't honest & up-front. I hope you new little addition is everything you hoped, without all the trouble.


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## buffy (Nov 16, 2008)

*E.p.a.*

Mate you need to contact the Enviromental Protection Agency of the Parks ans Wild Life 
and advise them about the person who is breeding - selling sick snakes.

Tell them what the vet said and the fact that the 2nd snake was in the same condition.
With this info they will go and inspect the person's snakes and paperwork permits for keeping and selling snakes. Good luck


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## the.badger (Nov 16, 2008)

I think you'd better edit your last posts Wild Storm and Dizzy, there's talk of site bans for naming names.

Thanks though, I've bought from him recently so it's off to the vet with a poo sample for me.


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## Wild_Storm (Nov 16, 2008)

I apologise to Garthnfay, I didn't realise mentioning someones name was wrong. But I do think it is important that people are aware that THAT person is moving states in the near future, and are planning to start a new business. I am aware that some people aren't honest with their dealings, but there are people here- like the.badger who has recently purchased a snake/s in good faith that they are healthy, is it fair to not warn them, so they too may also loose their snake? It is not my intention to offend a site moderator, but I hate to see defenseless animals suffer due to negligence.


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## Australis (Nov 16, 2008)

$50 says the person doesn't move interstate to a state with higher restrictions
on commercial wildlife, c'mon.


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

the.badger said:


> I think you'd better edit your last posts Wild Storm and Dizzy, there's talk of site bans for naming names.
> 
> Thanks though, I've bought from him recently so it's off to the vet with a poo sample for me.


 

Badger, 

Can i ask what you bought from them ? Is it in good health? Is it underweight or was it at the time of purchase?

Check the faeces for signs of worms, in the first snake that died the faeces smelt off not like a normal faeces smell.


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## Wild_Storm (Nov 16, 2008)

I am VERY good at offending or putting my foot in it... However!!!!! I don't wish to argue with you Australis, I was merely opening my EXTRA large mouth and placing BOTH feet in it when I repeated what I was told... The person that told me knows that person quite well professionally, and hopefully that not-so good business person (see- I am being very good Garthnfay- I am NOT mentioning names this time!!  ) will stay out of Qld... 
(And hopefully I don't get another warning!! Lol.)


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## Fester (Nov 16, 2008)

I know who this seller is as I had PM'd horsesrule with a similar experience. I bought a hypo Bredli female about 18 months ago that died very quickly about a week after the purchase. As we were going on holidays I didn't have the opportunity to have an autopsy but submitted photos of the cloaca area, which turned black and swollen, to a friend who has a close association with a reptile vet. The response was, in summary "It is difficult to say about the photo since it is not 3D, it is not a prolapse of the submucosa of the rectum (or the part of intestine in a reptile closest to the cloaca) possibly is the sequelae from gi parasites". When I submitted the pics and the vets response to the seller that is the last I heard! I was very disappointed in the fact that the seller did not have the courtesy to acknowledge my email and comment on the death. I too would never purchase from this seller again. I find it amazing in this hobby that the reputation of some big sellers is certainly not deserving!


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## MrBredli (Nov 16, 2008)

I bought an adult bredli from this person about 18 months ago, it was terribly underweight - i couldn't believe he had sent it to me in such poor condition. Poor form indeed.


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

Fester i remember when you messaged me about youre Bredli and it sounds like it died from a simmilar thing to the one i got if not the same. (I think i may have mentioned that)

There are others here who have bought snakes and within very short time frames they have died. We are not the first 2 and sadly i doubt we will be the last 2.

I know for a fact that someone in the last month bought a scrub python from this seller and it too died.


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## Wild_Storm (Nov 16, 2008)

I know what you mean about them being slow or not responding Fester- I had similar problems when I contacted that business prior to me purchasing my BHP. They didn't respond for 2 weeks, 'as their computers were down'... but they didn't bother to ring me either, nor did they bother to tell me their computers were down when they told me to email them.... By the time they did send their pics a week later I had purchased my BHP from a breeder who has supplied me a snake who is and does EVERYTHING I was told she would be. I would continue to email and ring them if I were you.


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## thesilverbeast (Nov 16, 2008)

Can someone pm the name please?


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## horsesrule (Nov 16, 2008)

This issue is clearly much bigger than me or me and fester or me and fester and Mr Bredli.

I have had over 100 pms today and a lot of them have said how they know someone or themself has has serious problems with this seller. 

I wish there was a way of getting this out there like on Tv or something. That would really make this seller clean up there act. 

Money aside these animals are suffering, how many have died or suffered in agony?


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## Australis (Nov 16, 2008)

Wild_Storm said:


> I don't wish to argue with you Australis



I'm not wanting to argue with you either, im not just saying
your flat out wrong, just don't see the sense in it myself.
But, think about it, if you owned and operated one of the largest
pet stores in the country dealing with reptiles, you would have
to have rocks in your head to contemplate "selling shop" and
relocating to a state like QLD, where the number of species
available for commercial sale here in shops is minuscule
compared to Victoria.


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## Helikaon (Nov 16, 2008)

bundy_zigg said:


> I understand your point but this has nothing to do with other people just the seller who sold a snake riddled with worms.
> Are you saying that if it had been taken to the vet as soon as horserules got it it would have survived? - I cant believe that this hobby will come to having to take all new snakes to the vet for a check over to cover someone else's negligence.
> I dont think anyone should condone selling a snake that infested with worms.




whether or not taking the snake to the vet straight away would have saved it is not the issue, you cant live on what if's. and i am not condoning selling sick snakes, but you are all getting over excited by the smell of blood. the only reason this has become such a big thing is because this is a big reputable dealer of reptiles. yes i admit i am a fan of feacal smears, but that is because all i have to do is grab a sample put it on a slide and look at it myself, no out of pocket expense just 5 mins of my time. and i have purchased quite a few reptiles which have shown significant worm burdens i dealt with it and all is fine. but i wouldnt call the sellers of these reptiles neglegent (in most cases). in this case there seems to be quite a few people adding more stories which doesnt put a vote of confidence with the seller, but thats what dealers do, they probably hardly lay an eye on the reptile before it is shipped into the hands of a new buyer. if you choose the buy from a dealer then these are things you should be thinking of.


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## the.badger (Nov 16, 2008)

horsesrule said:


> Badger,
> 
> Can i ask what you bought from them ? Is it in good health? Is it underweight or was it at the time of purchase?
> 
> Check the faeces for signs of worms, in the first snake that died the faeces smelt off not like a normal faeces smell.



Male hypo bredli hatchie, about 9 months old, he seems to be doing OK, he's small but not abnormally so, eating like a trooper, and his poo doesn't really smell of anything. But I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I would post a pic of him so you could see his size and condition but it will take my crappy computer about 45 mins haha.


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## Adictv (Nov 17, 2008)

WOW im sorry to hear this is not something i thought i would be reading about at 12am sunday haha.
im just about to get a few new reps can someone please PM me so i can stay away from them


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

Still no response from seller its been 24 hours now.


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## Colin (Nov 17, 2008)

the replacement animal had worms? This "so called" Big Time Reptile Shop is a sham in my opinion. 
I've heard heaps of simialar stories about this bloke and nothing has ever been good.. 
I wouldn't have his "third" rate garbage for free to be honest. 

I guess you wont be buying any more animals from any shop from now on.. which is a step in the right direction (imo)


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## Kersten (Nov 17, 2008)

Don't be surprised if the response you get isn't exactly positive....IF you ever get one. The slime bucket in question doesn't exactly have a history of responding favourably on the rare occasion he bothers to respond. He's even been known to just hang up and refuse to talk to people who've bought diseased animals from him again. Quality, reliability AND maturity....all in one neat little vessel.

Interesting though....I always thought that from a legal point of view retailers were supposed to refund for a faulty purchase if the buyer requests it. 

It would be nice to see someone finally take him to court and expose him for the shonky dealer he is, since unfortunately despite the overwhelming amount of people he's ripped off he's still managed to maintain an positive reputation over all. My partner never heard a bad word about the guy until after his bad experience....and he did some asking around before he bought from him.

As far as him moving to QLD is concerned - I'd be surprised if he did it. He couldn't have a business anywhere near the scale of the one he has now here. On a commercial licence the only snakes you can sell here are Antaresia. And apparently there's not many lizards to choose from either.


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## dames1978 (Nov 17, 2008)

can I ask what area of VIC it's in??


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

He might think you aren't serious about taking it any further thats why he's not bothering to reply to you.... 
keep us updated.


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## bundybear (Nov 17, 2008)

as well as your pursuing your legal avenues you have mentioned, check out ISO9001 which is the international standard for quality.
Australia is a member of the International Standards Organisation and any business that trades in Australia is required to meet this standard. It applies to everything from a simple barber shop right through to a nuclear reactor.
I'm sure you could fit a pet shop in between there somewhere.
food for thought.


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## Fester (Nov 17, 2008)

My experience cost me $600. I really couldn't be bothered chasing it as I doubted that anything would come of it. The death of an animal after you have received it is probably hard to pursue. Anyway if word of mouth is the best advertising it's all negative from me. I can remember too that when I went to pick up the snake from the airport I was amazed at how it had been packaged. It was in a calico bag in a plastic lunch box, no paper to stop her from banging around in the container. I was suprised that AAE allowed it through.


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

dames1978 said:


> can I ask what area of VIC it's in??


 

Ballarat Victoria


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Nov 17, 2008)

I also got some snakes there. Pairs of black heads, turned out to be all males. Pythons that took food once then never touched food again till they died. And I can get anything to eat. I thought it was just me???


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

ACA??? they seem hard up for stories.


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## Kersten (Nov 17, 2008)

Just you and an awful lot of other people.


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

Cordylus you are another unfortunate victim. 

I just got of the phone to DSE so the seller has been reported. We will wait and see what happens now. 

A Current Affair or Today Tonight is sounding like a good idea but that would only happen is a group of us all contacted them. 

I would be happy to expose this seller via TV. It would ensure he cleans up his act and would warn potential customers of the risk.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

I was going to say if a bunch of you got together and took action it might make him wake up. God knows there's enough of you!


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

lol, Today Tonight, they will report anything, i mean they had specials with the underbelly wives touring 'hotspots'.
If enough people who have been stung by this guy contact them, they will be hot on the heels of a scale scandal 

I can see Anna Coren trying to look interested, angry and sympathetic all at once already :lol:


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## ShnakeyGirl (Nov 17, 2008)

A class action could be a good way to go considering the number of people that have had such horrible things happen to them.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

It sounds like a lot of you have been burned by this seller, it would be a good idea for you all to get an action against him as these kind of numbers can not be ignored!!


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## mattmc (Nov 17, 2008)

becswillbe said:


> lol, Today Tonight, they will report anything, i mean they had specials with the underbelly wives touring 'hotspots'.
> If enough people who have been stung by this guy contact them, they will be hot on the heels of a scale scandal
> 
> I can see Anna Coren trying to look interested, angry and sympathetic all at once already :lol:


 
Ahhhhh but its Matthew White now


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## Colin (Nov 17, 2008)

Its disgraceful that these problems of animals dying from this place seem "the norm" rather than the exception. 

Think about this scenario:
If someone had a sick reptile and wanted to "shift it" before it died (with little or no comeback to them) where do you think they would try and sell it? 

probably to a pet shop / licenced dealer.. So the risk (in my opinion) goes up a couple of hundred percent of getting an animal that may have OPMV and infect their whole collection.


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

mattmc said:


> Ahhhhh but its Matthew White now



Same story, different presenter 
Either way, i still think that TV is the best medium to expose this seller.
It will be seen in most states and not just your local paper, which pails in comparison to the people that a 'scales scandal report' can reach on the TV.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

What do you all think of having a negative feedback area as we have one for posative


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok i have just sent another email to the seller as the seller has refused to answer the first email.


Attention Manager ***** *** ******, 

I request a response to my email sent 24 hours ago.

Should you refuse to contact me or reimburse the vet costs as requested i will make an application to the Magistrates Court for compensation including:

Vet Costs
Travel Costs
Court Costs

It is in your interest to resolve this matter now, as should i be forced to proceed with proceedings in the Magistrates Court this will be a public matter.

Sincerely


Hopefully this will get him thinking.

From the number of people coming forward now its clear this seller has made tens of thousands of dollars and probably more by ripping people off.


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

bundy_zigg said:


> What do you all think of having a negative feedback area as we have one for posative



its been done to death, admin wont allow it as it leaves them open to law suits, which is the same reason this and other sellers that have been complained about cannot be named.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

I would go ahead with it Horserule & make the application Horserule. Perhaps he will respond when he realises you aren't just bluffing him. You can pull out at anytime when an agreement can be reached. If he refuses to respond to that he will be looking at more than just a law suet.

I am sorry to hear you have had to go through such heart ache. I really feel for those animals. He needs to be stopped. And you too Cordyline for losing yours as well. Its a real sad story, I hope it ends well.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

Is he the type of guy that will punch a camera man??? If he is let ACA (has to be aca i don't get today tonight out here) know the will be around there in a flash, Horserule cold do the pixelated face and deep voice, and tonight on ACA the snake charmer not selling the snake oil he advertises


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

mysnakesau said:


> I would go ahead with it Horserule & make the application Horserule. Perhaps he will respond when he realises you aren't just bluffing him. You can pull out at anytime when an agreement can be reached. If he refuses to respond to that he will be looking at more than just a law suet.
> 
> I am sorry to hear you have had to go through such heart ache. I really feel for those animals. He needs to be stopped. And you too Cordyline for losing yours as well. Its a real sad story, I hope it ends well.



It seems like the whole reason this 'person' still has a good reputation is because when theres a bit of heat from a frustrated customer that's sick of being ignored, who then decides to go with the full force of the law, they end up getting paid off to keep quiet so to speak


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok i rang the magistrates court. 

It will cost $70.40c to take him to court for between $500-$1000 Compensation

Or 

$146.40c to take him to court for between $1000-$5000 Compensation

So the first option would apply to us and most of us here who have been fraudulantly screwed over by him.

Magistrats court is much more powerfull than VCAT so they would be the way to go assuming us and others decide to.


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## Mrs I (Nov 17, 2008)

And when you win he will have to reimburse all out of pockets costs including court fees too.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

You will need to be careful, get a lawyer, he definately will have one, it is his livelyhood you are threatening, you will need to have written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase. A recorded of the the replacement snake and vet report would also be required, a history of your reptile keeping experience including membership of any societies, groups or even forums, anythign to give yourself credibility. 
Their lawyer will try to discredit you, and lay fault on you for the death of the snake and are just after some money. you will need to prepared to defend your self and your actions, without getting angry. If you do lose you will have to pay the court costs etc adn he may sue you for defamation or the like. Any one else who also comes forward will also need written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase. 
It may be risky but will be worth it if you win, It dosen't matter if he has done the wrong thing or the right thing it only matters if it is legal, check for anyfine print on any form, invoice etc you got from the store that may lay all responsibilty at your feet.
Don't rush into anything before talking to a lawyer.


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

Twin_Rivers said:


> You will need to be careful, get a lawyer, he definately will have one, it is his livelyhood you are threatening, you will need to have written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase. A recorded of the the replacement snake and vet report would also be required, a history of your reptile keeping experience including membership of any societies, groups or even forums, anythign to give yourself credibility.
> Their lawyer will try to discredit you, and lay fault on you for the death of the snake and are just after some money. you will need to prepared to defend your self and your actions, without getting angry. If you do lose you will have to pay the court costs etc adn he may sue you for defamation or the like. Any one else who also comes forward will also need written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase.
> It may be risky but will be worth it if you win, It dosen't matter if he has done the wrong thing or the right thing it only matters if it is legal, check for anyfine print on any form, invoice etc you got from the store that may lay all responsibilty at your feet.
> Don't rush into anything before talking to a lawyer.


 

I dont think he will let this go to court but i may be wrong.

Should he force it to court:

I have a hand written receipt from the owner himself (with no fine print at all on it)
Autopsy report can be obtained by the reptile vet who performed the autopsy
Can get a report of the vet report for the second replacement snake as the same vet seen it
DSE were notified today

The fact he is ignoring the emails indicates he wants this to go away.

I would think someone like him taking on people like us for small amounts like $500 would actually hurt him more than help him.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

He may ignore you until he recieves something legal from a lawyer or the court, and if he has not broken a law then he has nothign to worry about, it could come down to your word against his, he will say the snake was healthy when it left his store, you will have to prove it was not, somehow prove the snake that died was in fact the same snake that you purchased.
If you do accept payment you will give up your right to any other action, you will not be able to take him to court, go to the media or even discuss it in a forum. the fact that you were given a replacement snake could be seen as adequet compensation by the court and you could be seen 'as wasteing the courts time' if the magistrate is not an animal lover.
Be careful


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

How many people have contacted you about this that have similar troubles? 
APS is only a tiny part of the overall herp community, and i dare say a very small % of those that have been burned by this are aware they are not the only ones.


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## jessb (Nov 17, 2008)

Twin_Rivers said:


> If you do accept payment you will give up your right to any other action ... the fact that you were given a replacement snake could be seen as adequet compensation by the court


 
I think this is a very good point - you accepted a replacement for the original, thus losing your right to continue with further action against him. Under the trade practices act, the seller is only required to give you a refund/replacement for a faulty product, which he has done.


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

You are right this is just one forum in the herp hobby of Australia.

How many people have bought of him and dont use this forum etc i am guessing many.

From the numbers coming forward it seems if you get a healthy snake or reptile from this seller thats actually not the norm.

Around 30 people have contacted me to say they have bought reptiles of this seller and the animal has died within a short period of time or nearly died and required vet treatment. 

Dozens of people have messaged me saying they have had other problems such as being sold the wrong sex, color, breed, etc.

Dozens of people have said they had planned to go though this seller in the near future but wont now.

Dozens have contacted me and said they know of someone who has burned by this seller in the past.


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## horsesrule (Nov 17, 2008)

jessb said:


> I think this is a very good point - you accepted a replacement for the original, thus losing your right to continue with further action against him. Under the trade practices act, the seller is only required to give you a refund/replacement for a faulty product, which he has done.


 

He replaced it with another sick animal therefor he has not complied with the law. 

Further to that he has breached DSE guidelines. And the wildlife act.


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## =bECS= (Nov 17, 2008)

even though the replacement is also faulty?
I think the best advice is to have a talk with a good lawyer, then going by their advice, decide if its best to take on a single case yourself, start a class action with whoever you can rally that has the evidence needed or go to the media in which case you may be able to remain anon, and at the same time reach more possible victims building a stronger case.

The only thing is, if you go for the latter, you will need alot of people to report it or 'suggest the story' to get their attention before you even get a look in.


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## mungus (Nov 17, 2008)

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but, with him / her / it ripping this many people off , you guys as well,
why not simply FRONT the person in question and gently ask for your money and vet fee's back ??
I would & have done in the past - no problem.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

jessb said:


> I think this is a very good point - you accepted a replacement for the original, thus losing your right to continue with further action against him. Under the trade practices act, the seller is only required to give you a refund/replacement for a faulty product, which he has done.


 

as horesrule stated the animal that he replaced it with also had an infestation of worms so he didnt do the right thing - maybe you should read back through the post as it does state this - not to mention if you ask for your money back thats what you should get not a replacement snake.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

The best course as i see it is to encourage everyone who has contacted you to contact the DSE and RSPCA about this seller and get them to take the appropriate action, they have the experience and the personal to do it properly but also the finance. If as many people as you say and the problem is as big as it is then a quick tour by the RSPCA and DSE should be enough for the to take action, a few feacal test will show there is an issue with worms and possibly other problems, for worms to have spread through all animals as you say then hygene can't be up to a very high standard, if no action is taken by RSPCA or DSE then try Today tonight or ACA the media attention will at least get the message out and should force the RSPCA and DSE into action.
Or you could try to take him to court but i still do not think you would win the case


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## mungus (Nov 17, 2008)

bundy_zigg said:


> as horesrule stated the animal that he replaced it with also had an infestation of worms so he didnt do the right thing - maybe you should read back through the post as it does state this - not to mention if you ask for your money back thats what you should get not a replacement snake.



But he's replaced it with another faulity item !!
So that puts in back in the box seat.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

But the faulty item was accepted as replacement, it is also up to the purchaser to prove it was faulty on reciept and there is normally only a 7 day window before even a obviously faulty item can be returned for replacement.
I know it not right, but that doesn't matter, it has to be illegal. The illegal aspect as i see it animal neglect and cruelty which is better handled by governing bodies not pissed off purchasers.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

Twin_Rivers said:


> But the faulty item was accepted as replacement, it is also up to the purchaser to prove it was faulty on reciept and there is normally only a 7 day window before even a obviously faulty item can be returned for replacement.
> I know it not right, but that doesn't matter, it has to be illegal. The illegal aspect as i see it animal neglect and cruelty which is better handled by governing bodies not pissed off purchasers.


 

sounds like you know how to rout the system? - horserule did the righ thing in taking the new snake to the vet and getting it tested and proving it too has worms, since he has not responded horserule cant get it back to him or sort it out so once again he is to blame.
I see you point but there are always ways to get him - especially since he seems to do it to alot of people, it will catch up with him.


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## ihaveherps (Nov 17, 2008)

Ahhh, go the brains trust.... spose your lucky that this is all said in a private place, where the person in question cannot read all this at their own will, and have time while you all prop and pose about the situation, to go about sorting out their house before the authorities get involved.... genious !


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## English (Nov 17, 2008)

my advice would be to speak with DSE & the RSPCA and then contact Consumer Affairs and VCAT and find out where you stand before you start lodging applications with the Magistrates Courts - Also contact a legal service in your local area for advice - Be professional and do not get caught up in the moment folk...

VCAT are usually more successful in this area and if, you don't get the result you want then take it a step further..


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> Ahhh, go the brains trust.... spose your lucky that this is all said in a private place, where the person in question cannot read all this at their own will, and have time while you all prop and pose about the situation go about sorting out their house before the authorities get involved.... genious !


 

so he is a member? - well then he will see how much people dislike his methods and should realise that word of mouth is a powerful thing - I for one have told many of my friends not to purchase from this seller. maybe he will notice when his sales dry up or he finally gets cought.
I notice he is not brave enough to defend him self?

But your point is very valid - but its done now.
Just for curiosity how often would parks and wildlife go and visit not petshops persay but shops mainly for reptiles? is it a once a year thing and do they test stock for things like worms? thanks


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

I have worked in several areas where legal knowledge is helpful, and having recently just started up a new retail business i have researched the basic requirements, no so much on how to rout the system as i see myself as honest and hopefully not getting myself in to a situation as the seller in this case. 
It is the RSPCA and DSE's job to ensure this guy is doing the right thing i feel it would better for them to address the situation rather than individuals with limited understand of trade law and the numerous laws regarding wildlife. 
a simple phrase or something stupid said in the heat of the moment can ruin a case and i don't feel the case is all that strong to start with.


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## ihaveherps (Nov 17, 2008)

never said they were a member.... though why would they defend themselves.... if they had seen it, bringing it here to slug it out wouldnt be worth their time, more likely taking the matter to their solicitor about a defamation suit. Nice of you to put it into text Bundy, that you have been passing the info around, would be good evidence in any defamation case they were building.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok, based on all this, for future reference would it be reasonable to ask a seller if you could have a snake vet checked (at your own expense) b4 purchase? Like they sometimes do with horses. Then if anything is found to be wrong you don't go through with the purchase. Is this something that sellers would agree to or not?


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> never said they were a member.... though why would they defend themselves.... if they had seen it, bringing it here to slug it out wouldnt be worth their time, more likely taking the matter to their solicitor about a defamation suit. Nice of you to put it into text Bundy, that you have been passing the info around, would be good evidence in any defamation case they were building.


 

hahah yeah like he would risk that when there are heaps of prople that would vouch that he sells sick or soon to be verry sick snakes.
Look up defamation - its only that if its not true hahah 
plus I can freely tell people I know that I have heard bad reports of the seller thats not a lie cause I have heard heaps haha


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

dino the horse said:


> Ok, based on all this, for future reference would it be reasonable to ask a seller if you could have a snake vet checked (at your own expense) b4 purchase? Like they sometimes do with horses. Then if anything is found to be wrong you don't go through with the purchase. Is this something that sellers would agree to or not?


 
maybe thats the way this hobby is heading - that every snake will be sold with a vet check? who knows, after reading this I would want one.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

Let's not get into a slanging match against each other or this thread will be closed and we need to know what happens! Chill people.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't think labelling all sellers as bad and poor operators is the way to go, but if you feel more comfortable in getting a vets opion in the health of animal than most suppliers i think would be happy for you to pay to have the animal checked, if there is a problem it would also give the breeder/seller time to rectify it early.
The fact the the seller in question has no right of reply, gives us all only one side of the story, the side of a few annoyed customers who bought unhealthy animals. Does any body know if the seller is taking action to improve the health of his stock?


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

Thats the thing Bundy, I seriously want to know from the sellers on here if that is a valid request b4 I make any future purcahses. I wouldn't want to offend but then why should I hand over hundreds of dollars with no guarantees.


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## Australis (Nov 17, 2008)

Even if every member on this forum, from this day on never purchased from the seller
it wouldn't put them out of business, shonky sellers aren't after repeat customers just
sting you for all your worth straight up, then sting the next new comer and so forth.
I recall a rather infamous Nrth Qlder that never seemed short on customers even with
endless dodgey dealings, mites, mis sexed animals, half dead animals, grossly 
misrepresented animals.. 
animals. etc etc... theres a new customer born every minute.


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## Fiona74 (Nov 17, 2008)

No I'm not labelling all sellers as bad or poor operators, definately not. My choice of words may not have been clear.
But if this were something that was common practice it might avoid things getting as far as this thread has. It will be something that is only kept between seller and buyer and chances are 99.9% of the time everything would be fine anyway.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Nov 17, 2008)

Ugh, you should report the seller to the rspca.

Hope your new snake is worm-free soon.


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## ihaveherps (Nov 17, 2008)

Im not in a slanging match, just posting some honest truths. If the person in question has read this thread, if they had any common sense, they would by now have given every animal in stock a worming treatment, if the authorities dont swing into action soon (not likely) then most of the parasite load will have already been passed, if not even given enough time for a secondary dose to be given, to clear out any eggs yet to hatch and breaking the cycle. Then see what legs you have to stand on, it wouldnt be unthinkable that a small percentage of animals in large collections have some form of parasite load, and if that avenue of arguement is believed by the courts, then this all becomes evidence in a defamation case, which if any form of suit is brought upon this person, a counter-suit is an obvious form of defence if they assume they have enough money to break you in the courts. 

Its all good in fantasy land, but the justice system rarely gets it right.


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## jmac (Nov 17, 2008)

can someone also pm me the name of the person so i don't receive dodgy snakes. really people, i think that if people keep buying from guy then they r just encouraging what he is doing, which IMO is REALLY WRONG. he should be brought to justice


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## LullabyLizard (Nov 17, 2008)

Thats wrong!


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

well on the up side at least no snakes would die for worms over the next couple of month





ihaveherps said:


> Im not in a slanging match, just posting some honest truths. If the person in question has read this thread, if they had any common sense, they would by now have given every animal in stock a worming treatment, if the authorities dont swing into action soon (not likely) then most of the parasite load will have already been passed, if not even given enough time for a secondary dose to be given, to clear out any eggs yet to hatch and breaking the cycle. Then see what legs you have to stand on, it wouldnt be unthinkable that a small percentage of animals in large collections have some form of parasite load, and if that avenue of arguement is believed by the courts, then this all becomes evidence in a defamation case, which if any form of suit is brought upon this person, a counter-suit is an obvious form of defence if they assume they have enough money to break you in the courts.
> 
> Its all good in fantasy land, but the justice system rarely gets it right.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> Its all good in fantasy land, but the justice system rarely gets it right.


 
Like i have been trying to say it is the who has the best legal arguement that wins not always who is right.
Let the RSPCA decide the proper course of action and report it and encourage everyone to report it, if enough do report it action will be taken. If his records are accurate the RSPCA should be able to contact everyone he has sold reptiles to and find out how big and how long this problem has been going on. They will no what laws have been broken adn what chargers could be layed, it is their job let them do it.
It is easy to sit in here and complain, threaten with action for $500 compensation but the next person who in good faith buys their first reptile only to have it sick being slugged with vets bills and other costs, all the while thinking next time i might just get a canary, you need to stand up adn everyone who has been affected not just by this seller but others needs to let the proper authorities know, you may think it is just one off but it may just be part of a bigger problem
thats my 2 cents worth


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## antaresia_boy (Nov 17, 2008)

i would appreciate it if you could send me a PM. i am lookin to buy a snake soon, and i will probably be buying from a Vic seller, and would hate to have this happen to me.

thanks very much, Jamie.


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## Freeloader (Nov 17, 2008)

It is in the sellers best interest in times such as these, to sell good quality, healthy reptiles. A bad name can do your business no good. Especially if you are well known.


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## xycom (Nov 17, 2008)

Many of his customers would be from the local area and perhaps the local papers might take an interest in the matter if he doesn't repond to your messages.

He seems to be gaining a bit of a reputation with some of the Wildlife shelters in the area as well.


Per


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## Carpetcleaner (Nov 17, 2008)

You would think that they would regularly worm all their critters as any good pet trader would. When you buy a puppy from a reputable breeder it comes with a vaccination and worming history. It should be a natural progression to a feeding history chart.
I bought my first two pythons from Reptile Trader in Rockingham and I had a very detailed card accompanying both of them that told me when they were laid, when they were hatched, weight on birth, first shed, when they had been fed and what, when they had defecated, etc etc etc.
Maybe we, as buyers, should insist on this sort of information.


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## repam (Nov 17, 2008)

This person deals with unhappy customers all the time because he sells old and sick animals all the time.He has made a business out of it. All the fuss in the world will not stop him he will just wait until its all over and then start selling to another round of people who haven't heard of him.Had a friend who got burnt badly and after getting a replacment snake was told nothing personal i'm a business man.Have heard other horror stories from people E.G Selling very expensive pythons as hatchlings that will never breed because they have been damaged.Anyway everyone get pm's & emails going and name him, word will get around and maybe we can save a few heartbreaks.

Cheers


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## darren (Nov 17, 2008)

*good shop*

i have bought a number of reptiles from a shop in ballarat with no prob with any off the animals, at all, as you are buying from a pet shop if its birds, reptiles, horses, ect, they are also getting animals from other people and getting other peoples problems which i bet they don't say when they are selling an animal, weather its infertile full off worms ect, or any other probs, so why blame a shop when really its comes from a person who might they bought the animals off in good faith, and i will still shop there anytime as the animals i have got have been great the staff are great


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

Twin_Rivers said:


> You will need to be careful, get a lawyer, he definately will have one, it is his livelyhood you are threatening, you will need to have written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase. A recorded of the the replacement snake and vet report would also be required, a history of your reptile keeping experience including membership of any societies, groups or even forums, anythign to give yourself credibility.
> Their lawyer will try to discredit you, and lay fault on you for the death of the snake and are just after some money. you will need to prepared to defend your self and your actions, without getting angry. If you do lose you will have to pay the court costs etc adn he may sue you for defamation or the like. Any one else who also comes forward will also need written documentaion of when, where and purchase price, plus an autopsy report plus written expert advice from a vet saying that the snake must of been mortally infected at time of purchase.
> It may be risky but will be worth it if you win, It dosen't matter if he has done the wrong thing or the right thing it only matters if it is legal, check for anyfine print on any form, invoice etc you got from the store that may lay all responsibilty at your feet.
> Don't rush into anything before talking to a lawyer.



I strongly agree here. Doesn't matter if his lawyer also thinks he is wrong. Fact will remain he is being paid to defend him and they will grill you over every minor detail. Watch what you say to him during this time and it would be handy to have a witness be with you if you need to contact him.

Ask your lawyer about what could happen if he skipped town and did not pay the court costs. Make sure they don't fall back on you. 

The ppl that have spoken here, and others who have been burnt, I truly hope you get support from these ppl to nail him. I hope he gets closed down or at least banned from having animals. He doesn't deserve them if he doesn't want to acknowledge there could be a problem with them. I can guarantee he is trying to ignore it because he doesn't want to fork out on vet bills which will eat into his profit margin but he still has a committment to those animals.

Good luck with it Horserule.


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## blackhead1234 (Nov 17, 2008)

I agree with what Darren has said!! 
I don't see why you are all bitching over a chat site!
How come none of these other 30 people horsesrule said have complained to the seller? Why not confront the seller about it? And stop having a sook over the net!
This seller has sold me plenty of animals and all are great!!

Maybe i can just take better care of them unlike you people


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

mungus said:


> Sorry to ask a stupid question, but, with him / her / it ripping this many people off , you guys as well,
> why not simply FRONT the person in question and gently ask for your money and vet fee's back ??
> I would & have done in the past - no problem.



You really need to be careful when you confront ppl. If you do, have a witness (more the better) so that he cannot then go you for defamation of character and make up some stories along the way. His support team will no doubt have their own lines rehersed to help back him up so you are best doing it the legal way. The guy has already refused to refund which I believe is totally wrong. Perhaps laws have changed but when I had my pet store which only closed this year, one of the laws stated in the Legal Jargon was that pet stores are required to allow 21 days cool off period where the customer is allowed to return an animal for a full refund. Ask your lawyer incase my theory is incorrect or outdated but you had the animal 11 days, you provided veterinary back-up that he would have requested to prove the animal was sick prior to your purchase. I hope your lawyer can tell you that he has already broken the law by refusing to accepting a refund and not accepting responsibility to take action to treat the remaining animals.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

blackhead1234 said:


> I agree with what Darren has said!!
> I don't see why you are all bitching over a chat site!
> How come none of these other 30 people horsesrule said have complained to the seller? Why not confront the seller about it? And stop having a sook over the net!
> This seller has sold me plenty of animals and all are great!!
> ...



How do you know the other 30 ppl haven't complained but just can't afford or couldn't be bothered taking it further. It is great news that you have got healthy animals from him, but that doesn't wipe responsibility on his part for the sick ones he has sold. Every pet store has their set backs - you are bound to get a outbreak of something - but its how you deal with it that gives you the reputation you deserve.


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## blackhead1234 (Nov 17, 2008)

It would be good to know if horsesrules is actually telling the truth!


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

Yes you are probably right blackhead. We are commenting on a one-sided story without hearing what the seller has to say, but a couple others have replied stating they too have had problems, then there has to be some truth in it - especially for her to announce such an allegation on a public internet site - well thats JMO anyway.


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## darren (Nov 17, 2008)

*truth*

now that would be very interesting indeed i bet the seller has bought in animals and they have died cant see him sooking on the net over a carpet python its not like there expencive


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

blackhead said:


> I agree with what Darren has said!!
> I don't see why you are all bitching over a chat site!
> How come none of these other 30 people horses rule said have complained to the seller? Why not confront the seller about it? And stop having a snook over the net!
> This seller has sold me plenty of animals and all are great!!
> ...


 
wow such blatant nastiness


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## nuthn2do (Nov 17, 2008)

bundy_zigg said:


> wow such blatant nastiness


For a 1st post at that 
I guess the owner of that shop knows about this thread


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

darren said:


> now that would be very interesting indeed i bet the seller has bought in animals and they have died cant see him sooking on the net over a carpet python its not like there expencive


 
your kidding right? yeah you have to be kidding!! who gives a rats *** about money they are living animals seriously thats just money hungry talk there!!


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## Dodie (Nov 17, 2008)

nuthn2do said:


> For a 1st post at that
> I guess the owner of that shop knows about this thread


 
Heh join date is today, nice easy nick was chosen, defending the seller in the first posts..hmm


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## mysnakesau (Nov 17, 2008)

Trust me I know what its like to own a pet store. I bought in plenty of animals that died day or so, within the week of purchase but I wore that cost while I always tried helping my customers when ever they bought something that wasn't quite right or died. I always tried persuading the customers to take a replacement or allow me to pay for treatment on animals before offering refund and 90% of time it was a successful and happy medium. I rarely had problems but I never accepted that it wouldn't happen to me.


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## blackhead1234 (Nov 17, 2008)

no not nastiness, just being truthful. Truth hurts maybe hmmm.


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## Twin_Rivers (Nov 17, 2008)

nuthn2do said:


> For a 1st post at that
> I guess the owner of that shop knows about this thread


 
Just what i waqs thinking, If Darren and Blackhead are so impressed by this store and operation it carries on then a visit by the RSPCA this week will be of no concern and the members who havebought unhealthy animals may of just been unlucky that the owner forgot to give those particular animals their precautionary worm treatment ...... as i would think would be good practice for selling snakes or any animal, secondly he should be sourcing his animals from rerutable breeders not just buying the cheapest animal to get a higher profit margin.


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## Kris (Nov 17, 2008)

.....


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## Kersten (Nov 17, 2008)

I think you'll find that in a number of the cases where people HAVE tried confronting the person in question, he's stonewalled them and they've caved in, knowing that just as Twin Rivers has said....it's too hard a case to prove. This isn't like paying for goods in advance and then not receiving them, or buying a TV with faulty parts. Unfortunately, this is exactly why he's been getting away with this sort of thing on such a large scale for so long. Contrary to the opinions of some in this thread, not having taken him to court doesn't mean he hasn't done the wrong thing.


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## bundy_zigg (Nov 17, 2008)

blackhead1234 said:


> no not nastiness, just being truthful. Truth hurts maybe hmmm.


 

sorry to disagree but you were just plain nasty no to ways about it


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## baxtor (Nov 17, 2008)

wow, this is up to ten pages and it won't be much longer till the hangin'
just worm the snake and take it up with the seller.


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## Kersten (Nov 17, 2008)

For those who don't know it's true it might be nasty....but for those of us who've been there and done it and DO know it's true.....well what can ya say, I guess the truth hurts!


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## FAY (Nov 17, 2008)

This thread is getting out of hand...


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