# birds



## cris (May 11, 2007)

Just wondering if anyone here knows if any of the following birds are available(and legal in qld) in captivity(without being dodgy and claiming they are being rehabilitated)?
stone curlews
scrub turkeys
king fishers
butcher birds
crows/ravens
raptors
tawny frogmouths
owls


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## hornet (May 11, 2007)

no idea but if you track down legal raptors or owls let me know, small raptors ofcourse tho


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## Charlie (May 11, 2007)

are there legal raptors or owls in OZ?


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## hornet (May 11, 2007)

thats what we wanna know


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 11, 2007)

Are Kookaburra's legal to own in Qld??


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## jonesc1 (May 11, 2007)

I know that in SA Tawny Frogmouths, Boobook Owls, Laughing Kookaburras are all on a basic permit, on specialist more raptor species are available. I'd imagine it would probably be similar for other states. Crows/Ravens are unclassified in SA, not even an exempt species, which means with a permit they can be shot, so no problems there i would think. Although with all the differances between states i could be wrong. This is just from SA.


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## junglepython2 (May 11, 2007)

In vic kookas are on the basic license but I couldn't see any birds of prey on either list.


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## jonesc1 (May 11, 2007)

I must say that SA does have fairly "relaxed" licensing laws when it comes to birds, similar to reptiles, compared to the other states.


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## dragozz (May 11, 2007)

as far as i know, birds of prey are not allowed to be kept on normal licenses Correct me if I am wrong. I wanted to get an owl once before  but unfortunately couldn't. I'm in NSW though, so could be different where you are.


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## cris (May 11, 2007)

Just checked the epa site, as far as i can tell none of these can be kept without being dodgy and claiming they are for rehab 
The closest thing is that you can possibly have a magpie as a restricted animal, does that mean you could have one or 2 on a rec. licence?
You can also keep emus if you get a permit and are going to kill them for profit, but not if you just want to keep one


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## jonesc1 (May 12, 2007)

wow, come 2 SA, magpies are an exempt species, no licence required, and emus are basic.


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## xander (May 12, 2007)

No.These animals are all illegal to keep as pets in QLD.Zoos are allowed to keep a bird that is unfit for release(has to go through a long process involving national parks, QSMP,letter from vet)A wildlife carer ia allowed to care for these animals(except reptors which require a raptor license)until they can be released.However if you handrear a young corvid,curlew,emu odds are it will be tame as a adult and hence stay around the house yet still fend for itself.


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## Magpie (May 12, 2007)

Bloody scrub turkeys


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## Scleropages (May 12, 2007)

Bloody magpies!


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 12, 2007)

I want a kookaburra!!!


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## eerin (May 12, 2007)

how come they call adelaide folk crow eaters??? there are way more magpies in adelaide than crows???? 
the only animal you cant have in adelaide is a platypus ... thats what i remember last time i checked, in like small easily cared for animals....can you imagine having a pet elephant


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## cement (May 12, 2007)

i would love an emu


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## sxc_celly (May 12, 2007)

SA has such relaxed laws, MY GOD lol. Up here in QLD, we cant have frogs without being on license, and absolutely no sugar gliders, rabbits, ferrets, wallaby's, emu's + more. I wonder why SA is so relaxed and QLD is so much stricter?


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## cris (May 12, 2007)

eerin said:


> how come they call adelaide folk crow eaters??? there are way more magpies in adelaide than crows????



Perhaps they ate all the crows :| 

I believe the reason we cant keep much here is because the animal liberationists seem to hold alot of power here


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## eerin (May 12, 2007)

or maybe because its a beautiful thing they are in the wild
i see so many bush turkey's, kookaburra's, deer, kangaroo's, lots of lizards and snakes too around my house, i wouldnt want to live here other wise

i have a frog... its a miniture one, i found him in an iceburg lettuce from the supermarket
called up and got told it was ok with a liscence in qld


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## geckodan (May 12, 2007)

cris said:


> Just wondering if anyone here knows if any of the following birds are available(and legal in qld) in captivity(without being dodgy and claiming they are being rehabilitated)?
> stone curlews
> scrub turkeys
> king fishers
> ...



None of those species are on the QLD licence.


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## cris (May 12, 2007)

eerin said:


> or maybe because its a beautiful thing they are in the wild
> i see so many bush turkey's, kookaburra's, deer, kangaroo's, lots of lizards and snakes too around my house, i wouldnt want to live here other wise



Um are you saying we shouldnt be keeping lizards or snakes :? or shouldnt be killing feral pests like deer? i support the conservation of all native species, dont see how that has anything to do with not being able to keep them, apart from the fact allowing ppl to keep them increases the publics respect and knowledge about such critters.



eerin said:


> i have a frog... its a miniture one, i found him in an iceburg lettuce from the supermarket
> called up and got told it was ok with a liscence in qld



cant say i have heard that, i would try and get that in writtting because im fairly sure their is no exemption allowing wild frogs living in lettuce to be legally kept. Everytime you call that lot you get a differant story :lol: Its only if you dont have a licence that you can keep wild caught frogs(under some restrictions).


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## Magpie (May 13, 2007)

eerin said:


> or maybe because its a beautiful thing they are in the wild
> i see so many bush turkey's, kookaburra's, deer, kangaroo's, lots of lizards and snakes too around my house, i wouldnt want to live here other wise
> 
> i have a frog... its a miniture one, i found him in an iceburg lettuce from the supermarket
> called up and got told it was ok with a liscence in qld


 

Deer are one of the most destructive feral animals in Australia today.


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## sxc_celly (May 13, 2007)

Why's that? Is that because they wreck the land? They are beautiful animals, I dont understand why we can go to the zoo and let our kids pat and feed the deer, and then outside the zoo we shoot them, its bloody disgusting. Same thing happened with Brumby's. They were shot in a huge massacre because they "wrecked the land and cause erosion". But now after many years or protesting and debate, they are being humanely caught and trained or relocated into a national park suited to them so they can live out their lives. It's an awe inspiring sight to see a herd of wild brumbies gallop past, ill tell you that, one of the best sights ive seen. Why the heck can't we just catch deer and relocate them to a national park, or are we so lazy, slack and money hungry that we'd rather stick a bullet to their head? So what if they arent native, WE aren't even native. I think it would be a beautiful thing seeing wild deer in a national park. Same with the Black panther, some money hungry media seeking idiot shot it. I think some species are not able to be owned in some states due to every state is different, has different environments, different waterways, different species. My 2 cents!


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## cris (May 13, 2007)

Humans are native to the entire galaxy(even further in the future probably) becuase we are smart enough to be able to travel there if we want. Wild deer and brumbies are good for nothing but target practice, i cant believe you just suggested to put them in a national park :shock:

I like tigers and komodo dragons should we put them in the national parks too? they could help control the deer as humans are just about their only predator here. Maybe some otters too and some tortoises and elephants of course im sure they wouldnt do anything 

I wasnt aware of them being "one of the most destructive species" but they are hard hoofed and compete with our animals. Generally though its only in semi urban areas where they survive because ppl are good enough to shoot them out in the sticks so you dont usually see many.


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## sxc_celly (May 13, 2007)

Honestly... Humans are an iggnorant species, its our fault the deer are here in the first place. Humans are causing global warming and climate change and are slowly destroying the world - shows how smart the human race really is. We are too complex, and our advanced techonology and greed is creating out demise- but thats another story...

Your saying shooting and killing are the right ways to do things? Im disgusted. If thats the way you see it, any exotic species of reptile they ever find here, they should shoot it too? How can we love and let our kids pat and feed deers in zoo's and then encourage their demise by killing them outside the zoo? 

If your SO against them being in a national park, why cant they get relocated to zoo's then hey? Why can't they be placed in a national park, why not? Your saying they compete with our other hooves animals - like what cows? Talking about Tigers and dragons being purposely put in national parks - Would you want those shot too? 
What are you 8? That kind of species if found should be relocated to a zoo.

Our native species come first, but causing harm to an animal that our kids love, pat and feed in the zoo's, when its our fault its here, when theyre are plenty of other options...how pitaful and inhumane to say so. And Brumbies are classed as an Australian horse, so dont you DARE say that brumbies are only good for shooting, how UN AUSTRLALIAN!! 

I see SO many people on here, saying of how iggnorant people are to snakes and reptiles and havent got a clue about them, but your just the same!


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## hornet (May 13, 2007)

so sxc_celly, you are saying we should be putting introduced pests into out national parks? Brumbies, deer, buffalo, pig's, goats, rabbits, foxes etc are all introced and should be shot, they are destroying out environment


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## junglepython2 (May 13, 2007)

You can't be serious natoinal parks are to be protected, not to be destroyed by introducing feral animals so people can enjoy the site of them running in herds. No feral animal can be introduced with out having some effect on the native wildlife. And yes any exotic reptiles should also be humanely killed if found in national parks or anywhere for that matter where they don't belong.


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## hornet (May 13, 2007)

and with the black panther being shot, i think good on him, gave us some good hard evidence they are here


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## cris (May 13, 2007)

sxc_celly said:


> I see SO many people on here, saying of how iggnorant people are to snakes and reptiles and havent got a clue about them, but your just the same!



Although i find your opinion very disturbing the above quote made me PMSL


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 13, 2007)

What has this got to do with birds???!!!


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## sxc_celly (May 13, 2007)

Brumbies are considered australian because they have a long history and special heritage with australian people and are now being protected and removed to parks, so please take them off your shooting list! Thinking that the panther being shot is good... thats bloody outragous theyre ENDANGERED! "Ooo theres something i havent seen before lets shoot it"... we're intelligant creatures arent we? 

Shooting and killing doesnt solve everything, god what primative behaviour. I know some animals like rabbits and feral cats NEED to be erradicated and im so glad theyre coming up with humane ways of doing it, i mean just because its not native, why do we need to inflict pain upon it? Shooting rarely kills the 1st time. Putting baits out to make the creatures infertile so they can no longer produce. No animals get hurt in the process. Now whoever thought that up was using their head 

CHRIST we shoot our Australian National Emblem the kangaroo... how pitafully degrading. All im suggesting is that Im sure theres a much more humane and intelligant way of erradicating or removing an animal than shooting it, its the least we can do for the poor animal since its all our fault theyre here. Im over this thread, case closed!


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## hornet (May 13, 2007)

the panther may be endangered but here in aust they are endangering our native wildlife, they dont belong here and should be eradicated


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## nuthn2do (May 13, 2007)

What panthers?


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## hornet (May 13, 2007)

big cats that have been spotted on many times in the aust bush


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## Elfir (May 13, 2007)

they saw them running after the yowies


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## nuthn2do (May 13, 2007)

Yeah so have pixies and leprechauns :lol:


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## junglepython2 (May 13, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> Yeah so have pixies and leprechauns :lol:


 
Not anymore I killed the last one yesterday:lol:


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## cris (May 13, 2007)

I havnt ever shot any brumbies or deer, but i definately would if the situation came up to suggest doing otherwise is irresponsible and destructive. Shooting is the only humane and practical way to control most species, yes even roos(there is a massive thread on that already so no need to discuss that here). One person i know has shot heaps of brumbies before and he is a horse lover and is good at talking to them etc. too. If more ppl in Australia shot feral pests it would be a much better place 
Racism has as much heritage in Australia as brumbies have, should everyone go back to being racist too?

To my knowedge there hasnt been any panthers shot in australia, there was a massive cat shot last year(?)but im fairly sure it was found to be a extra big feral cat after they did some gentic stuff. I have little doubt there are some massive cats around but i dont think they are panthers(not to say it isnt possible).


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## junglepython2 (May 13, 2007)

Yes cris that big cat shot a year or two ago, that just happened to have its head shot off and body dumped was confirmed to be just a big feral cat. I don't think there has been any proof of panthers here at all. However I guy in Vic has a stuffed baby puma that was reportably shot here back in the 60's I think.


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## Humphry (May 13, 2007)

New to this site I must say that this is the best thread that Ihave read so far. It has been so amusing I am relieved to know that are still sensble people out there. By this I am refering to cris, hornet, and jungle_python2. I agree with you guys ferrel fauna should be irradicated in most instances.

And as for sxc_celly, where are you getting your info from? Wild brumbies are still being culled (by shooting, which i don't believe to be inhumane provided you know what you're doing) as we speak. I'm a bit of a country girl and i feel not only for the farmers who have to deal with these pests but also for the native wildlife and habitat they are destroying. Not to mention that hunting is a favorite pastime of mine. 

I think that it is YOU that needs to grow up sxc_celly.

And good on everyone else who's had there say about this.

Oh and I hope you got enough info about the birds in the end chris.


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 13, 2007)

Still don't see how this has to do with birds???!!! Maybe you should all start a bleeding hearts thread.


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## Magpie (May 13, 2007)

sxc_celly said:


> Why's that? Is that because they wreck the land? They are beautiful animals, I dont understand why we can go to the zoo and let our kids pat and feed the deer, and then outside the zoo we shoot them, its bloody disgusting. Same thing happened with Brumby's. They were shot in a huge massacre because they "wrecked the land and cause erosion". But now after many years or protesting and debate, they are being humanely caught and trained or relocated into a national park suited to them so they can live out their lives. It's an awe inspiring sight to see a herd of wild brumbies gallop past, ill tell you that, one of the best sights ive seen. Why the heck can't we just catch deer and relocate them to a national park, or are we so lazy, slack and money hungry that we'd rather stick a bullet to their head? So what if they arent native, WE aren't even native. I think it would be a beautiful thing seeing wild deer in a national park. Same with the Black panther, some money hungry media seeking idiot shot it. I think some species are not able to be owned in some states due to every state is different, has different environments, different waterways, different species. My 2 cents!


 
Sorry to continure to take the thread off topic, but deer ringbark trees and shrubs when forage gets hard to find. As they are a woodland species, this results in the destruction of native bushland (native animal habitat).


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## cris (May 13, 2007)

Humphry said:


> Oh and I hope you got enough info about the birds in the end chris.



Its ok i got that as soon as i had a look at the laws, as confirmed by Geckodan none can be legally kept. Even though im not able to keep any of them at the moment, it was more a general interest question. 

Im happy for the thread to go in any direction it takes(as most do).


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## bundy_zigg (May 13, 2007)

well in my opinion the only pest on earth are humans! a lion will kill young cubs of another lion to make the lioness come in to breeding again, human men kill kids and rape them for the fun and experience of doing it! you dont se monkeys going around committing mass murders, we are the only danger on earth we are destroying it and then have the nerve to blame animals for it! do you think ferrets swam to Aus? and maybe rabbits rode on there backs! and in QLD as a few people have said we arrant allowed to keep jack s*#@! but we can have 30 cats per person if we want because they are vegetarians and dont hurt our wild life!


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## cris (May 13, 2007)

Humans are simply the only animals smart enough to be able to cause a massive impact, fortunately some humans are also smart enough to see the impact they are causing(something other animals generally cant do). Some ppl are happy to let things take there course on a downward sprial while others would prefer to take action for the benifit of the ecosystem. Yes some humans have caused many bad things to happen, that doesnt make humans as a species or an individual bad though.


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## Humphry (May 13, 2007)

Firstly I don't think that anyone involved in this thread is trying to say that the animals are at fault here, but that does not change the fact that they are pests and something needs to be done about them.

Secondly, bundy_zigg, cats are not vegetarians and I don't think that anyone in there right mind believes that they are and that that is why they are allowed to be kept as pets. They are allowed to be kept as pets because, theoretically at least, they are a domesticated animal. Unfortunately some of these so called domesticated cats have been allowed into the wild in the past and have gradually evolved back into a wild animal again.


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## bundy_zigg (May 14, 2007)

ohhhhh my god Humphry you dont know what sarcasm is you poor darling! i cant believe youd actualy think that i though cats were vegos!!!!!!!thats soooooo funny!!! ill explain what i ment was that in QLD we cant have ferrets rabbits and other things but an idividual can have as many cats as they want and cats are the biggest problem in Aus they destroy our wild life and i thought it was funny how you all ran other animals down with out realy mentioning cats!!!!!! a cat from my nabour killed my $900 bird in its cage i saw it happen and wasnt quick enough to get it but when i spoke to the guy next door he just said ahhwell and the council wouldnt even do anything cause the have no laws to controll cats! do you understand now??????? look up sarcasm!!!


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

yes cats are one of the animals i will happily give the led pellet traetment too, yes humans have caused all these probs but some humans want to fix them. With you using lions and monkeys as examples its a totallydifferent thing, that is in their natural range and its how its ment to happen, in australia foxes and cats are not ment to be killing native fauna and goats, deer, horses and other hoved animals are not ment to be destroying our vegetation, not one did we blame this on the animals but never the less the most humane method is to shoot them.


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## sxc_celly (May 14, 2007)

Sorry Hornet, but i must step in. You CANNOT shoot a horse unless its crippled/dying etc, they are classes are a somewhat protected species now in most areas(brumbies), and its ILLEGAL to shoot them out of free will for no reason other than stated above. If you had actually dived deeper into the matter, you would know that shooting, even if done properly still isnt the most humane method. I did alot of research, government work etc on a particular brumby shooting in NSW a few years back, where people in a helicopter shot hundreds of wild brumbies inside a national park while people on a horse trail ride were riding in there! - How intelligant. Let me explain:

For example if you shot a horse, youd have to have pretty damn good aim to actually shoot it in the 2 spots where it can be killed instantly. Unfortunately, most people miss, and the animal is shot, bleeding, and in agony, then retreived and shot again, or simply not found, and left to die a slow painful death - thats humane?. 

Some of these horses apparently died over a few days they discovered, and a few foals were actually found close to death because their mother was killed - thats humane? Also the sheer noise of the firing and the panic is just cruel in itself. Please if your going to make a comment about any of this, research it abit and find out the facts. I have worked with organisations and the Governement into that project and the method of "shooting" and its not humane at all as you can probably tell by now. These particular animals are being put in a special national park just for them, and some others are being trained with humans to become domesticated horses and they are some of the best natured hardiest horses to ride. See there are other way than a bullet.

And cats, what have you people got against cats? Dogs do the same thing, would you shoot next doors Golden Labrador? My dog killed a little frog yesterday brang it in to show me and it was already dead. Yes i was upset and annoyed with him, but i wouldnt SHOOT him, i mean christ. Not even if next doors dog ate a frog - its in their nature, we cannot take their natural instincts away. If your going to put a "led pellet" into a cat, you may as well shoot the Golden lab next door too! 

Humans create the problems in the first place. God people own cats ( i love cats ), and give it little fluffy mouse toys to play with, and moving little animals toys to pounce on, and then wonder why the cat catches birds? It WILL happen, and we just have to accept that, because its in the animals nature. And we cannot have as many cats as we like, you need council approvement for over a specific amount of cats.

The smart person who came along with the infertility project amongst pest animals was a genious. It does them no harm, does their offspring at the time no harm, but they can no longer reproduce - no more pests. Ways like this to erridicate should be looked into deeper, instead of a bullet. And the black panther shooting- im glad you think that a rare endangered animal being shot by some yobbo is the right thing. Im seriously over this thread, and the iggnorant and primative behaviour some of you possess. Everything is solved by bullets - Is that how primative we are?


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

ok, i didnt mean shoot a domestic cat and yes i do shoot wild dogs aswell, brumbies should not be protected they are an introduced species, as for shooting not humane, how many times have you been out hunting, 9 out of 10 times we can drop the animal first shot, we always check to make sure it is dead which it generally is, if the hunter has ethics they will check every animal they shoot and chase down any that made a run for it, once they are bleeding they dont get to far. With the big cats, they are feral they kill our native wildlife, would your prefer to see aus over run with good looking exotics at the price of our native species? you need to do more reseach, and i dont mean looking up what some greenies have wrote, get some first hand experience, untill then dont go on about how inhumane shooting is


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## IsK67 (May 14, 2007)

hornet said:


> a domestic cat



Inside - Domestic - Can live to a ripe old age.
Outside - Feral - short lived

JMO.


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## cris (May 14, 2007)

sxc_celly said:


> Everything is solved by bullets - Is that how primative we are?



What is primitive about killing pests? 

Its not illegal at all to shoot brumbies, at least in qld anyway i would be interested to know about where they are protected though, the idea is absurd. It would be like the government saying canetoads are protected. I have heard of them being rounded up and taken from the wild, that is fine but to suggest that can simply happen in all cases it completely ridiculous.

I would suggest you do some research on the environmental impact various pests have, as its clear from your reply you dont have a clue.


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 14, 2007)

I LOVE cats and Birds.


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## cris (May 14, 2007)

Incredible_Reptiles said:


> I LOVE cats and Birds.



yeah the other white meat


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## Incredible_Reptiles (May 14, 2007)

hehehehe, shh it'll be our secret!!!


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## rodentrancher (May 14, 2007)

Magpie said:


> Bloody scrub turkeys



What's wrong with Scrub Turkeys. Very yummy done in a Camp Oven, if a tad oily.


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## Humphry (May 14, 2007)

Wow sxc_celly, you must have been a busy little bee to have done sooo much work with "organisations and the government" as well as keeping up with your retail pet assistants job all at at the tender age of 18. As for the bird you say you lost to the cat next door, well i am sincerely sorry but perhaps in future you need to take some more responsibility for the safety of your pets. 

As for your coment about me not mentioning cats, what are you tripping on? In my two bobs worth i did believe that many participants in this thread had already covered that and i was just assuming that when i used words like "ferral fauna" and "pests" that you would understand that it covered many species including cats and dogs.

Moving onto your dog coments now, yes I would shoot the neighbours "golden lab" if it was on my property and harming native wildlife and/or my stock, just the same as I would shoot my own dogs if they were doing it.

As for your coments about using infertility projects to help, I do agree that they are usful however the animal is still out there causing damage for it's lifespan which in somecases can be very long. It is also my belief that these projects don't effect nearly enough of the countries pest populations. Having said that my research into these projects has been limited and perhaps when i have time i will do some more reading.

I also agree with Hornet and Cris when say that you need to do more research yourself.

I sincerely hope that I have not pissed anybody of whilst expressing my point of view, least of all you sxc_celly, that was never my intention. If I have then please take my sincerest apologies.


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

also, birth control is far to expenive when there are hundreds of thousands of females of the species that we need to eradicate out there


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## junglepython2 (May 14, 2007)

sxc_celly said:


> . These particular animals are being put in a special national park just for them, and some others are being trained with humans to become domesticated horses and they are some of the best natured hardiest horses to ride.


 
I find the fact that they are relocating feral horses into National Parks extremely hard to believe, but seeming as you have done the research can you please back these claims up??

I will agree with you on dogs though, they can be just as much trouble as cats in some instances and should also be kept indoors or in a fenced off area IMO.


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

i guess the knackery could be classed as a national park


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## bundy_zigg (May 14, 2007)

hemphry HOW DARE YOU SAY TAKE MORE RESPONSABILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a fence, they have safe and secure cages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have 2 dog to gard the yard!!!!!!!! how should i ohhhhh high and might prevent my naboughers DOMESTIC cat getting in the yard and attacking my bird through the cage causing it to have a heart attack and die of shock!!!!!!!!!!!! its not my responasbiltiy to keep and govern HIS cats! i agree with the kulling of animals because they do dammage to our environment but i just think you should feel sad at having to kill a beautiful animal not be enthuseastic!


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

why should we be sad to kill a predator the wipes out our native wildlife that is much more valuble?


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## bundy_zigg (May 14, 2007)

arnt kangroos and crocs and koalas our native wildlife that you say is so valuble? well what the??? we kull them becaues they become to over populated for the tiny land we allow them!!!!! wow thats brave taking our a kangaroo your tough thatey are our most fearsom predator!! there are different types of kulling and not all of them are of feral animals so plz dont feel bad when shooting a feral cat dog fox ect but do feel bad when you kull our native wildlife!!!!!


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## Tatelina (May 14, 2007)

A raptor? I'm imagining a dinosaur.


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## bundy_zigg (May 14, 2007)

i just want to say one more thing, Australians on the most part are great and do a lot to conserve our wildlife they get activly involved in it, there are also many australians who take active rolls in the arradication of threats to our wildlife(good on them), but there is a whole world out there and australia isnt safe from the destruction that will eventually come from pollution, weather changes, global warming ect, so i encourage you to think outside australia and see if you can make a difference.


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## hornet (May 14, 2007)

never said roos were predators, but face it the roos are killing themselvs being over populated, they are starving, culling is the humane way to do it, i have seen first hand hundreds of dead roos from lack of food and/or water, sometimes there is not enough to support them, the crocs are farmed so no harm there and koala, as far as i know are just being relocated to other areas but it seems to me you would rather see them starve to death, die of thirst or get hit by cars, with our valuble native wildlife i'm not tsalking bout the ones that are over populated i'm talking bout our small mammals, our reptiles and out birds which are being wiped out by cats, dogs, foxes etc


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## bundy_zigg (May 14, 2007)

good point but why is there not enough water and food why do we put small pockets of scrub in citys and then go booo hoo hoo when the animals come and get wipped our by cars dogs and cats? we encroch on their land i just can help but think what will happen in years to come when we need more land then more and more till all we have left is Zoos(which i dislike)i dont want to argue hornet because i agree with you, i see your point(just wish you could see my point instead of trying to tear me down in flames)


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