# Experience



## Nicole (Feb 29, 2004)

I was having a look at Dave and Tracey Barkers site and came across this one:

http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/TheMeasureOfExperience/TheMeasureOfExperience.htm

An interesting article. What do members think of his 'snake years' as a measure of experience?


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## kevyn (Feb 29, 2004)

I agree. Learning happens in practice.


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## Greebo (Feb 29, 2004)

I actually thought he was talking about Australia at first because that's what it was like here before licensing came in in 97. (Except it was illegal to keep them here).
It's an interesting idea but how do you prove it pre-licencing?


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## phantom (Mar 1, 2004)

i think he is right on the ball,no snake,no experience


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

Turtles (1 X 5 years) = 50 points
Lizards (2 X 5 years)
(8 X 4 years)=420 points

Snakes took a while to work out as my collection has continually grown and I had to work it out year by year.I haven't done maths that hard since I finished school. :lol: I reckon some one like Bob Whitey would have a hard time working out his total.
Not including pre-licensing days 490 points.
Also, I reckon Venemous should be worth more points or it should be broken up into Venemous and Non-Venemous points.
Who else will post their (verifiable) points?
Cmon......let's see them.


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## Slateman (Mar 1, 2004)

*This pasage in article remind me APS.*

The new class of "experts" is mostly comprised of well-read snake-loving people with strong interests and a few snakes. Some "experts" have read and memorized every printed word written about some particular species, they are veritable walking encyclopedias with only one or two entries. We have met people that can quote passages from some of the old Vivarium articles we have written as if they were Scripture. 

Wander if they have Monty in America.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

Why has no one else posted their points?
....Calculator batteries flat?


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## Slateman (Mar 1, 2004)

OK I have 16 snake years.


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## Nicole (Mar 1, 2004)

Not worth posting mine Greebs... all and sundry know I am still a newbie, I'm the first to admit it. ...but I am keen to hear about others calculation though, so here goes:
2 snakes for two years + 2 snakes for one year = a miniscule 6

I also agree that you should specify say, pythons or elapids distinctly, and not lump them all in together... as all know, pythons only for me...


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## Slateman (Mar 1, 2004)

Africa had his first snake more than fivety years ago.


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## Greebo (Mar 1, 2004)

My first snake was 16 years ago when I was 18.(NO internet in those days)
Unfortunately I got rid of my snakes when I got a dragon instead and only got back into the hobby after they legalised it.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 1, 2004)

Not quite Slatey old boy, it is a lot bigger now though so it must be true what they say about they never stop growing 

By the way I haven't posted my snake years cos I haven't read about it yet


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## peterescue (Mar 1, 2004)

I used to have a chart Id made up when I was about 15(early 70s) so that I could feed all the reptiles I had with some sort of efficiency. There were about 300 animals(include many small skink and gecko species, turtles etc) on it. I regret having that many animals now as I was not able to look after them properly and many died.( Fortunately for them I moved to Queensland)
I lived in Melbourne and a lot of sub tropical and tropical species were sold in pet shops without any information on them. There were very few books and like the article said, very few older people willing to share infomation. Id have welcomed some armchair experts in those days. Even herp keepers at the zoo would give you deliberate misinformation.
I suppose hands on is great but only with the knowledge that others can supply whether through books or someone else on the internet. 
Peter


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

I guess our armchair experts are just too modest to post their scores.


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## Parko (Mar 2, 2004)

That makes you the master, all hail to the master. :wink:


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Very good. "Lord of the Idiots" is more likely.
Just can't help noticing that a lot of ppl who post on every other thread, seem to be avoiding this one.
Nicole fessed up to her score of 60 but she never pretends to be something that she is not.


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## Parko (Mar 2, 2004)

Well I'm an apprentice still 3 snakes 2 lizards less than a year, can I score points by being nice? Also not counting pre licence days as a youngster.


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Good on ya Parko.
That wasn't so hard, was it?


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## Parko (Mar 2, 2004)

:wink:


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## africancichlidau (Mar 2, 2004)

> can I score points by being nice?


Sure ya can buddy, when ya gonna start?? hehehe


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## stockeh (Mar 2, 2004)

how do the points work greebs??
ie 1 snake equals
1 lizard equals
etc


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## stockeh (Mar 2, 2004)

it wont let me open the artical thats all


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

No worries.
keeping 1 snake for one year = 10 points
same with lizards.


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## Moclobe (Mar 2, 2004)

*For what its worth*

I have kept two blue tongues for approx 20 years and a bredl's python for 1/2 a year. I also had a childrens python for a while with disasterous results. It then took me several years to get the courage to get another snake.

While I agree that you gain experience from keeping animals I would not consider myself an expert. At time when i read articles on this site I feel like an infant.

Regards David


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## spilota_1 (Mar 2, 2004)

What about points for breeding?
Surely that is worth atleast 50 points per clutch.


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

Maybe separate points for breeding?
That is a good point.


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## ad (Mar 2, 2004)

620 points for me, I am no expert, which is why Im not worried about my points, Im here to learn and help others starting out with basic info. if I know the answers. I reckon you would need thousands of points before getting anywhere near claiming expertise.
I have not raised hots but I have some animals that require specialist care, which could rate higher too! ie boyds. somebody raising boyds is doing better than someone with blue tongues or beardys. also the amount of animals successfully bred is a good detirmination, but then bhp breeder only gets 6-8 eggs where a vitticeps pumps out heaps more with a lot less effort and skill.
Its hard to guage accurately, but good for a rough guide I guess.
When someone with 20-30 points starts posting like a 50,000 pointer its a worry. Its like someone with a budgie called 'pretty boy' taking over the bird enthusiasts web forums!


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## roadkill5000 (Mar 2, 2004)

2 lizards 3 years 
4 lizards 2 years
3 lizards 1 year
=17 lizard years 
is that how it works?


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## Greebo (Mar 2, 2004)

yep, 1 year is ten points so 170 points for you.


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## nigmax (Mar 2, 2004)

I didnt need to get new calculator batts for mine 
2 lizards 1yr
1 snake 1mth :shock:


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## Fuscus (Mar 2, 2004)

5 Lizards for 5 years (when I was a kid/teenager - including a blue - tongue who gave birth)
3 Tortoises in a pond (actually a buried washing trough) for another couple of years ( do tortoises count?)

And when I lived in Greece we used to collect the land tortoises then release them after three months, at some points in times I had over twenty.
2 water pythons for six months plus 4 other snakes obtained in the last three months

And does a backyard full of cane toads count?


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## stockeh (Mar 2, 2004)

one snake for 8 years - 80
two snakes for 4 years - 80
two snakes 1/2 year - 20
one lizard 8 years - 80
two lizards 1 year - 40
two lizards 1/2 year - 20

thats thirty two reptile years or 320 points im only a youg'en and always willing to learn off anyone willing to teach


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## peterescue (Mar 3, 2004)

Parko said:


> That makes you the master, all hail to the master. :wink:



Is that comment really necessary. Why do you feel the need to be rude.
Perhaps I should be more transparent for the less intelligent.


It doesn't matter how many animals and how many years if what you are doing is wrong. Just because animals survive doesn't always mean that you are doing things right. People with years of experience can contribute to bad practise as well.
The thing is to be open to all information and evaluate it. 
A large amount of herp research is done by people who don't keep them as pets. Their expertise is often in ither fields.
Peter


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## Fuscus (Mar 3, 2004)

I think Parko was trying to be humorous rather than rude. Peoples social skills (including mine) seem to drop a couple of notches when they are on the internet.

And you are right about the rating system, at best it is only a partial indicator of a persons herp skills, kinda like a LD50 system for herpers


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## Slateman (Mar 3, 2004)

All this poin tystem is silly. What about 200 poins minus for death snake. Or extra points for snakes which are harder to keep. Or another 100 points for ewery relocated animal.
LOL people don't get jumpy about this. We having just little fun here.


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## Shamus (Mar 3, 2004)

No points for me worth mentioning. 1 carpet 17 months. Just here to pick up tips.


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## stockeh (Mar 3, 2004)

good on ya shamus... as long as you are willing to learn then i am sure you will pick up plenty


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## Magpie (Mar 3, 2004)

230


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## Artie (Mar 3, 2004)

It's all Greebos fold :wink:

For what it?s worth,
Counting on that system, I only get to 95 points no matter how much I try to scrutinise it.  

:wink:


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## Parko (Mar 3, 2004)

peterescue said:


> Parko said:
> 
> 
> > That makes you the master, all hail to the master. :wink:
> ...


 Rude? Really? In that case sorry Greebo that wasn't my intention. Or is old matey Peter just very very sensitive. :roll:


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## Greebo (Mar 3, 2004)

I didn't take Parkos comment to heart. Anyway there a a few people who have posted more points which made me feel a bit better.
I still can't help noticing that some of our younger members that are so quick to put down other members have completely avoided this post.I wonder why that would be?


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## Pinkie (Mar 3, 2004)

1 snake 2 yrs 
1 snake 6 mnths
5 lizards 1 yr
3 turtles 1 year

Can someone else do the maths ta.


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## Artie (Mar 3, 2004)

105 :lol:


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## Pinkie (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks dude!


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## zoe (Mar 3, 2004)

hey fuscy are u wog too?


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## Fuscus (Mar 3, 2004)

Mongrel is a better description


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## bigguy (Mar 9, 2004)

What a crazy rating system. According to Dave Barkers method I have between 10,000 to 20,000 years experience. Funny, I know I am feeling my age, but geez, not that much)

Bob


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## Slateman (Mar 9, 2004)

LOL Bob. 
This thread is created just to give some people chance to show off.
How is your back? Your miss is protecting you from me badly. No chance to get you on phone last week. Hope you are better now.


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## bigguy (Mar 9, 2004)

Slatey,

Its a lot better now. When you rang last week I could not have gotten out of bed even if I wanted to. Sorry about that

Bob


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## Greebo (Mar 10, 2004)

> This thread is created just to give some people chance to show off.


 Why do you think people are showing off Slatey??
I actually found this thread useful to gauge which members are actually speaking from experience and which ones are talking from their poo generating area.
Everybody knew from the start that Bob would have the most points.
Being old is not a crime.


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## earthmother (Mar 10, 2004)

i liked the last paragraph on that Barker site. I haven't even had a half a snake year! 

But we have had 5 years of 6 Beardeds. That's 30 Dragon years. My kids may agree ive had at least 30 dragon years lol
I like to know who has had experience. Please keep bragging lol
Mudmum


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## Slateman (Mar 10, 2004)

I have 240 husband years.


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## kevyn (Mar 10, 2004)

I'm at about 180 for snakes, and 30 or so for lizards. Funny I don't feel a day over 26...


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## zoe (Mar 10, 2004)

crap i must have no snake years lol. ive had 1 snake for 10 months lol. oh and my 2nd snake for 1 month...i dont know how to calculate that but im guessing its really small! ok nobody listen to any advise i give lol :?


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## almaron (Mar 10, 2004)

About 100 points, for what it's worth. I would agree with Greebo (and the Barkers too for that matter) that it's not a half bad idea to have some sort of gauge when sifting though advice. Lot's of people, myself included, while never claiming to be "experts", tend to speak/write in a definitive tone. While there's nothing inherently wrong with that, it can lead to people placing more value to advice or opinions than may be due. While of course no score can make bad advice good, or vice versa, and someone with no real experience can certainly be 100% right, it is relevant and helpful to know if someone is speaking from experience or just quoting something they've read or heard.


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## Nicole (Mar 10, 2004)

Slateman said:


> This thread is created just to give some people chance to show off.



No Slatey, that's not why I created it.
I found Barker's concept to be genuinely intetetresting and wanted to know what others thought.

Discovering the wide range of experience levels at APS is also good and reminds us what a varied community we have.

Cheers,
Nic


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## Slateman (Mar 10, 2004)

Sorry for the comment Nick. I meant nothing serious by it. Just pet talk.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 10, 2004)

ALMARON!!!! Where ya been buddy?????? Doesn't matter, welcome back anyway


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## africancichlidau (Mar 10, 2004)

> ive had 1 snake for 10 months lol. oh and my 2nd snake for 1 month



If ya staple ones head to the tail of the other we'll let you have one point 

OK Guys, you've sucked me in now... How do I calculate this thing anyway? Is it one point per snake per year ?

I promised myself I wouldn't do this but if people are getting some value from it then perhaps I should?


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## Magpie (Mar 11, 2004)

10 points per herp per year me thinks.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 11, 2004)

That gives me around 200 with snakes. What about lizards? same scoring method?


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