# sourcing frog friendly fish in Melbourne



## herptrader (Jan 27, 2010)

Dear APS'ers,

We have been building a bit of a habitat garden which includes a pond which should attract the odd frog. The problem is that it also attracts the odd mosquito larvae an aspect that has a bit of a bad bite to it 

The books (and web sites - see below) describe native fish that are frog friendly and will control mosquitoes - but where do you get them? Are their aquarium shops in the South East of Melbourne or the Mornington Peninsular that can be recommended? 

How to build a frog pond - knick knack, paddywack, give a frog a home




> Some types of frog-friendly fish, which also control mosquitoes, are Rainbow Fish (especially the Softspine Rainbow or Sunfish, Pacific Blue Eye, Dwarf or Red Line Jollytail or the White Cloud Mountains Minnow). Some people add local stream invertebrates such as backswimmers and damsel-fly larvae instead. Never place Goldfish or Mosquito Fish in your pond as they are poisonous to frogs or eat their tadpoles.


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## Sarah (Jan 27, 2010)

blue eye fish ( Pseudomugil_signifer) will eat mosquito larvae and wont disturb the frogs, Subscape in Richmond sells them they have quite a few native fish, though not sure how you would keep it warm in winter because they need it warm - pH 6.5-7.5 (7.0), 10-15 dH (12), 73-82°F (23-28°C)


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## Namn8r (Jan 27, 2010)

Hey Brian, 

For cold water ponds you can stock any of the following that will control your mosquito and not harm any frogs or tadpoles....they are all small fish and will pose no threat 

White Cloud Mountain Minnows
Any of the Danio sp Zebra/Leopard/Pearl
Small Barbs Ruby/Rosey
Bitterlings
Murray River Rainbow

Personally I would go for a mixture of longfin White Clouds, zebra danio and leopard danio and a few rainbows. The longfins look great top down and they stay small and school together making an attractive display and cheap and should be available from pretty much any Aquarium store.

HTH

Nam


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## wasgij (Jan 27, 2010)

certainly is, my local pet shop stock white clouds and murray river rainbows. The shop is in ferntree gully. its called mad about pets.


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## herptrader (Jan 27, 2010)

wasgij said:


> certainly is, my local pet shop stock white clouds and murray river rainbows. The shop is in ferntree gully. its called mad about pets.



Kewell that is just down the hill from us so that could work fine. - Thanks!


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## herptrader (Jan 27, 2010)

Dear Nam,

Actually I am Daavid (and my wife Judy is on APS as "trader", but she is the real Herp Trader. Brian has never posted here but has had a look around from time to time.

regards __daavid



Namn8r said:


> Hey Brian,
> 
> For cold water ponds you can stock any of the following that will control your mosquito and not harm any frogs or tadpoles....they are all small fish and will pose no threat
> 
> ...


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## moosenoose (Jan 27, 2010)

They didn't add the bit in there that states by making one of these wonderous frog ponds you're also going to have the added benefit of tiger snakes and copperheads eating them :lol: Turn your backyard in to a scream-fest! hehehehe


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## Poggle (Jan 27, 2010)

hey David, lit bit of advise, you will notice with ponds mosquito's will lay larva only if the water it still enough for them to land on... so why not jjust get a pond pump which allows for the surface to move a bit and splash a bit and break  should keep the lil buggers away


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## herptrader (Jan 27, 2010)

Poggle said:


> hey David, lit bit of advise, you will notice with ponds mosquito's will lay larva only if the water it still enough for them to land on... so why not jjust get a pond pump which allows for the surface to move a bit and splash a bit and break  should keep the lil buggers away



I was wondering about that while cleaning out the pump yesterday. It had slowed to a trickle .... and interestingly it is the first time I had ever seen wrigglers in there.


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## cris (Jan 27, 2010)

IMO the best thing to do is go and catch some small native fish from the local area(make sure they arnt Gambusia). Small gudgeons are a good choice, although im not sure what species would be in your area.

Fish that eat mozzy larvae will also eat tadpoles, so you need to provide enough cover to give the tadpoles a chance to evade the fish while small. The larger the fishes mouth the bigger the tadpoles it will eat, so the ideal fish is the one with the smallest mouth.

Various insect lavae, even some types of mozzy larvae will also help keep the bitey mozzies under control.


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## cris (Jan 27, 2010)

Poggle said:


> hey David, lit bit of advise, you will notice with ponds mosquito's will lay larva only if the water it still enough for them to land on... so why not jjust get a pond pump which allows for the surface to move a bit and splash a bit and break  should keep the lil buggers away



This is true, but some frogs also like still water so it may not be the best solution. Also going through a pump probably wont do the tadpoles much good.


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## Poggle (Jan 27, 2010)

herptrader said:


> I was wondering about that while cleaning out the pump yesterday. It had slowed to a trickle .... and interestingly it is the first time I had ever seen wrigglers in there.



i was having same problem... was growing some perch in a couple of 44 drums. and pump was cleaning water but never disturbed surface... wasn't until some 10 yr old at a pet shop made me feel dumb when i went in to get a stronger pump to suck up the lil buggers.... moved pump closer to surface and no troubles since


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## Sock Puppet (Jan 28, 2010)

cris said:


> Small gudgeons are a good choice, although im not sure what species would be in your area.
> Fish that eat mozzy larvae will also eat tadpoles, so you need to provide enough cover to give the tadpoles a chance to evade the fish while small. The larger the fishes mouth the bigger the tadpoles it will eat, so the ideal fish is the one with the smallest mouth.


 
I was thinking the same, but gudgeon are quite voracious feeders (I keep a few species at home). One species I keep is Empire Gudgeon which have a smallish mouth compared to other gudgeon species, but you'd still be surprised what they can fit in their gobs, they'll eat anything they can swallow, & sometimes things they only think they can fit in. Pretty standard MO for any of the native gudgeons. So I agree, a bit of cover is the go for frog spawn/tadpole protection, however, too thick & this could also have a negative effect in that the mozzie larvae then have a safer haven to grow.
Some local natives (if you can find them) are 
Dwarf Flathead Gudgeon
Midgley's Carp Gudgeon
Striped Gudgeon
maybe Empire Gudgeon, Firetail Gudgeon
Smelt 
Various Glaxias

As a footnote, my folks have a large pond water lillies & other aquatic plants, but no pump. They have goldfish which breed readily in the pond, & regularly have Peron's Tree Frogs & Striped Marsh Frogs in residence. Occasionally the Striped Marsh Frogs have spawned, but the eggs were quickly eaten by the goldfish. So they had the lot, fish, frogs, & no mozzies, just that the frog spawn never had a chance. Not a bad trade off though, when other visitors included herons, kookaburras (the pond wasn't covered, but the fish bred easily enough that the odd sacrificial goldfish wasn't an issue), ducks, & once a stray turtle.


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## Namn8r (Jan 28, 2010)

herptrader said:


> Dear Nam,
> 
> Actually I am Daavid (and my wife Judy is on APS as "trader", but she is the real Herp Trader. Brian has never posted here but has had a look around from time to time.
> 
> regards __daavid


 
No worries David, 

I just bought a heap of stuff from you guys the other day and was speaking to Brian on email.

Go the white Clouds or Danios mate they only grow to about an inch and mouths only big enough to eat full grown wrigglers max.

Most natives will grow too big and most are predatory.

Cheers

Nam


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## Hooglabah (Jan 28, 2010)

danios of any variety (except queen or giant)


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