# What is the kindest way to kill a mouse??



## steph (Nov 27, 2007)

Hey guys since my snake is getting bigger and the price of food is becoming more expensive i am thinking of breeding mice but my only dilema is how to kill them in the kindest way.

is there some way of doing it where they will just go to sleep??
i dont want to freeze them alive and gasing them with co2 sufficates them....so is there a better way?

any help or tips would be appreciated

thanx


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## Isis (Nov 27, 2007)

DO a search of previous threads. This has been done to death.


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## noidea (Nov 27, 2007)

I remember someone saying that if the c02 method is done correctly, they do fall asleep before asfixiation. hope this helps
mel


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## IsK67 (Nov 27, 2007)

C02 or cervical dislocation are the most humane way to go about it.

IsK


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## Kirby (Nov 27, 2007)

co2 suffocates them slowely, IMO not too humane. something quick and painless.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 27, 2007)

Smash their head with a blunt instrument , or grab them by tail and swing them onto a brick or similar surface.
The only painless and the quickest way to die for any animal is massive brain trauma.


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## method (Nov 27, 2007)

Kirby said:


> co2 suffocates them slowely, IMO not too humane. something quick and painless.



Not if you do it right i thought, i thought you were ment to make them fall asleep first then suffocate them while they are out.


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 27, 2007)

C02 i would think would be the most humane way, they fall asleep before they asphyxiate, and happens relatively quick


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## Gecko :) (Nov 27, 2007)

gee, where have I heard that b4?


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## IsK67 (Nov 27, 2007)

Kirby said:


> co2 suffocates them slowely, IMO not too humane. something quick and painless.



Learn to do it correctly.

At 20% volume of the chamber per minute it has an anaesthetic effect. Once unconscious is achieved then the flow can be increased to 100% to completely flood the chamber. After 5 -10 minutes they should be dead.

Younger animals and neonates will require longer exposure to the C02 to achieve death.

IsK


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 27, 2007)

In 5 or 10 minutes i will have flicked the lights out instantly(on a brick) of 100+ mice.
5 or 10 minutes is to long to spend dying of gas ..imo


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## Brock Lobster (Nov 27, 2007)

Kirby said:


> co2 suffocates them slowely, IMO not too humane. something quick and painless.



It's considered Humane, but it does cause distress in the animal. The lungs can register co2 & respond by breathing heavier. I find that something like Helium (a gas that the lungs process in the same manor as Oxygen) wont cause the mouse to panic & it will gradually fall into a coma then die. But helium costs a lot more then co2, so co2 inhalants are the most commonly used form of euthanasia of mice.


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## eladidare (Nov 27, 2007)

ssssnakeman said:


> Smash their head with a blunt instrument , or grab them by tail and swing them onto a brick or similar surface.
> The only painless and the quickest way to die for any animal is massive brain trauma.


 
you beat me to it!
definately the kindest/quickest way, not the cleanest but hey.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 27, 2007)

> definately the kindest/quickest way, not the cleanest but hey.


Do it outside, use a rubber glove, (this is good for grip as well )after the first few you get quite good at it and you dont need to have any mess.


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## Hetty (Nov 27, 2007)

We need a sticky thread on the *humane* killing of mice and rats, with big bold letters at the top saying it is inhumane to kill mice and rats with the fridge and/or freezer. It's so sad that there are people still doing this.


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## caustichumor (Nov 27, 2007)

I only tried gassing once, I felt a little hitler-ish so I went back to the crack to the back of the head. The old saying someone needs to develop a better mousetrap, Well someone needs to develop a better capital punishment for rodents...


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## Wrasse (Nov 27, 2007)

If people explained why freezing was cruel, then perhaps less people would do it. But here, in this thread, there are just lots of people saying... 'freezing is cruel', and not explaining why.

For the people that are pro freezing, do a google on the pain experienced with hypothermia. Read a few survivor stories. Remember, Mice and Rats are warm blooded, as we are, so will have much the same reactions as we do.

Oh wait, I already did that for you!



> The rain was light and didn't last too long. Once it stopped we extracted ourselves from the rock and stumbled back to our sitting perch once again. The clouds blew over revealing a sky full of stars and then it really got cold. *The last couple of hours were a neverending infusion of pain. After all shivering had stopped, there was only the pain. We couldn't talk and we couldn't move much either but we could feel the pain. It was everywhere. No location could be pinpointed and yet the pain was intense. To an outside observer we probably would have appeared to be zombies, unmoving and unfeeling, but the pain was there. Time was absent, thoughts of making it through the night were absent, the future was absent; the present--the immediate pain--was all there was*. We didn't stay alive because of a will to live, we stayed alive because there was nothing else we could do.


http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/cryo_course/hypothermia.html

There are many first hand survivor stories out there, all mention the pain involved before they became comatose and unable to feel any more.


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## caustichumor (Nov 27, 2007)

Maybe for those with Co2 gas chambers, if you use those whippets of Co2, give them a blast with a cream charger N2o first, that might take the edge off.....


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## PhilK (Nov 27, 2007)

Drown them. Apparently drowning is a very peaceful way to go (according to near-drowning survivors).

We used to put them in a wire cage and drop it in a bucket. They run around for 30secs then just stop. Though it is a bit sad to watch.

I'd put them in a pillow case and just swing them against something. Out like a light.


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## Hetty (Nov 27, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Drown them. Apparently drowning is a very peaceful way to go (according to near-drowning survivors).



Drowning is inhumane as well. I'll explain with the help of wikipedia 

First, there's the panic (animals response is the mammalian diving reflex).
Then the animal holds its breath and panics more.
Then the animal breathes in water and coughs.
Then goes unconscious, has a heart attack and dies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning

Any way of dying is going to be at least a little bit painful, it's premature death after all, but it's possible to make it a lot less painful and we have a responsibility to do that.


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## Miss B (Nov 27, 2007)

I always imagined drowning would be a rather painful way to die.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 27, 2007)

Yeah sorry Phil, drowning is cruelas well,
and the pillowcase idea,
forget that to as there is to much room for error


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## dragon lady (Nov 27, 2007)

Leave you lot alone or a while ...............& WOW the world goes bang!

No i dont do this.. Know a woman who bought guineas off me to be bred for snakes ( Olives i think?) & this is what she does.......... I DONT HAVE SNAKES...............yet!, but then i'll get them bulk through Pisces,cheap & no mess!
But i think Guineas have much too long legs to be fed to a snake...would do too much damage.
& back to what i wrote earlier.......... mice are dorment during winter!..you dont see a mice plague during winter... ah,arh!..... its like they are in sedation... similar to our reptiles... its called HIBERNATION!!!!!


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## Grant_G (Nov 27, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Drown them. Apparently drowning is a very peaceful way to go (according to near-drowning survivors).
> 
> We used to put them in a wire cage and drop it in a bucket. They run around for 30secs then just stop. Though it is a bit sad to watch.


 
I herd boiling water makes it even less painless.........


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## dragon lady (Nov 27, 2007)

So you want to serve your reptile a cooked meal!


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## Wrasse (Nov 27, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> <snip>
> & back to what i wrote earlier.......... mice are dorment during winter!..you dont see a mice plague during winter... ah,arh!..... its like they are in sedation... similar to our reptiles... its called HIBERNATION!!!!!


 
er.... so ?

Did you read my post on page two at all ? You are recommending the fridge, then freezer. You are not talking dormancy, you are talking hypothermia and death.


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## Col J (Nov 27, 2007)

Brick "em!


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## pugsly (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm with snakeman, side of a brick, its lights out immediately. 

Doesn't look the best, and I suppose you need a tough stomach, but the quickest way by far to do it.


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## Veredus (Nov 27, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> Leave you lot alone or a while ...............& WOW the world goes bang!
> 
> No i dont do this.. Know a woman who bought guineas off me to be bred for snakes ( Olives i think?) & this is what she does.......... I DONT HAVE SNAKES...............yet!, but then i'll get them bulk through Pisces,cheap & no mess!
> But i think Guineas have much too long legs to be fed to a snake...would do too much damage.
> & back to what i wrote earlier.......... mice are dorment during winter!..you dont see a mice plague during winter... ah,arh!..... its like they are in sedation... similar to our reptiles... its called HIBERNATION!!!!!


 
I imagine during winter mice are mostly doing the same thing as what Tribal europeans did, huddling together in a small enclosed space for warmth. That however does not mean chucking them in the fridge is humane. As wrasse has mentioned, hypothermia is not a pleasant event.


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## Wrasse (Nov 27, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> But i think Guineas have much too long legs to be fed to a snake...would do too much damage.


 
:shock:

*blinks* 
*wipes eyes and looks again*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:lol: :lol:

Sorry folks, totally OT, but I couldn't help myself.

(I shall shut up and return to my corner now)


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 27, 2007)

guineas as in the rodent dont have long legs,the guinea fowl also has short legs.Either would be good olive food.
Any way, if your friend is freezing them , tell her to stop.


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## OdessaStud (Nov 27, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> C02 or cervical dislocation are the most humane way to go about it.
> 
> IsK



100% Agree


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## oxyranus (Nov 27, 2007)

whacking it is the kindest way imo.


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## Chris1 (Nov 27, 2007)

whatevers quickest is kindest, but because i dont think i could actually kill a cute little ratty by smashing its head, or snapping its neck i'm more than happy to pay teh dolittles people to do it, package them and freeze them fro me.


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## DiamondAsh (Nov 27, 2007)

*I'd log on to APS, show the mouse this thread and when he dies from shock, feed im to my snake. *


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## OdessaStud (Nov 27, 2007)

I timed how long it took for my rodents to die from put into container to adding CO2 it was just under 2 minutes.Ill go that way thanks when my time is up, there was no struggling they jus lay down and went to sleep which took roughly 30 seconds the last minute and a half was waiting for the heart to stop beating.They look so peacefull and they are clean and easy to package.CO2 for me .
Odie


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree with Odessa, i co2'd my first ever rats the other night while picking some up from a breeder. i hadn't ever done it before so wasn't sure what to do, but once I'd caught the ones I needed for my snakies and put them in a jar, gave them a blast of c02 and they were out like a light. wouldn't have taken more than about 2 mins, and they looked like they fell asleep pretty bloody quickly too.


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## PhilK (Nov 27, 2007)

CO2 has the same effect as drowning does (superficially). The animal suffocates and passes out.


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## JasonL (Nov 27, 2007)

There is nothing painful about drowning, but it's highly stressful. I know as I almost achieved it myself when I was four and can remember the whole situation like it was yesterday.


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## herpie boy (Nov 27, 2007)

a few tamazipan and and few scotches would be the most humane way for the lil fella to go.


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## Nagraj (Nov 27, 2007)

Everything you need to know about humane euthanasia.

AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia


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## caustichumor (Nov 27, 2007)

wow now that's some light bedtime reading!


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 27, 2007)

PhilK said:


> CO2 has the same effect as drowning does (superficially). The animal suffocates and passes out.


Yes it has the same outcome but one is humane and the other is not.

If done Correctly, CO2 gassing will cause the rodent to drift into unconsciousness peacefully and unknowingly. Once the rodent is unconscious then you can flood the chamber and cause rapid, peaceful death. Note that the rodent is unconscious at the time death occurs so does not suffer the feeling of not being able to breath. Not done correctly however and CO2 is just as inhumane as any other way. It's very similar to locking someone into an air tight container, they will slowly drift off to sleep as the CO2 content slowly rising and the O2 content drops (through respirtation). They will begin to get drowsy, the lights will go out (peacefully) and then death will occur.

Throwing someone in the water and holding them under causes the CO2/O2 ratio to change rapidly and as a result you get the horrible, panicked feeling of suffocation from not being able to breath. It will cause you body to try and inhale, you'll draw in water....cough, choke and die horribly.

For the reasons that CO2 gassing is kinda tricky to do properly unless you have been shown, i'm all for cervical dislocation on mice/small rats (under 150g), or the whack over the back of the head method. The whacking method must be done by holding the tail and whacking on a hard, solid EDGE and not on a flat surface and by swinging a pillow case.


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

No one has mentioned either Uzi or high calibre assault rifle... 

I hear that along with cockroaches they're likely to survive a nuclear war, but not depleted uranium shells 

Alternatives to drowing... Dip into 8 M HCl (particularly strong hydrochloric acid - I recommend this because of the ease to get hold of it).

Or... forget CO2 - why not try N2 - generally very harmless - unless in liquid form... in this case it's just incredibly cold... Dip your mousey mousey into the -190'C liquid nitrogen (availble for around $15 per litre) and voilla - your mouse is not only dead, but frozen (some would say in suspended animation). 

You'd be able to freeze 100s with one litre of N2. (one by one then bag em and freeze em in the normal manner ready for use at a latter stage).

And when you're bored of freezing your mice, freeze cloves of garlic and then smash them over your food - it tastes amazing! It's cooked right through in seconds and you lose almost no nutrients.

Anyone tried it?

Well... Good luck with your mouse murdering. Personally, I buy professionally killed ones  Thanks coatsey


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## IsK67 (Nov 27, 2007)

slim6y said:


> And when you're bored of freezing your mice, freeze cloves of garlic and then smash them over your food - it tastes amazing! It's cooked right through in seconds and you lose almost no nutrients.
> 
> Anyone tried it?



Careful you don't mix the frozen garlic with the frozen rats.


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> Careful you don't mix the frozen garlic with the frozen rats.



They're normally easy to tell apart from one another - one usually has a pungent stench the other is a clove of garlic 

On a serious note - I don't think N2 would be the quickest humane way to despatch a rat or mouse, but definitely healthy (nutrients stored)... and it is a very good way to dispatch a clove of garlic... again, nutrient stored!

But I am keen to hear any results if anyone has ever done such a thing - I have used it for garlic - and other assorted fun (like exploding bottles - so much so shards of plastic stuck into a wooden wall!)


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## Aussie Python Lover (Nov 27, 2007)

God someone call phillip nitschke LOL aka DR DEATH......


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## Helikaon (Nov 27, 2007)

HAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!1 these threads are so hard not to get into. so so ammusing. geeze i think ive read about every thought way to kill a mouse there is in here. im surprised there isn't someone who just stick a mouse trap in the mouse cage and waits for the unlucky one. 

Gas em or Whack em i say. ........all depends on whether they have tail to swing em with. 

so many heated arguments but then again slap a horse on the **** to get it moving and there will always be a handful of people to scream cruelty. 





and jsut a side note to allow a little more argument. soem larger organisations, names excluded, freeze pinky mice and rats as they can not be gassed. this is doen in the freezer obviously but with the animsl not comign into any contact with the surface at all. and is considered to be the most humane way other then gettign the hammer out. 
and indeed someone screamed out cruelty i think they were a wildo and the response was , if you can spend all day hitting pinkies with hammers i worry about your mental health.

i had a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JasonL (Nov 27, 2007)

I wait for them to die from old age, that is the least cruel method, it's just that my snakes keep dying of starvation????


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## cement (Nov 27, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Get out of it you goose. I'm going by what people who have been drowning have said. There is the initial "this sucks" response and after that apparently it's just apathetic. And yes indeed, God help the animals because no vet ever has to be cruel to an animal or kill it.. right?


 
Hahaha,  Infinite wisdom and experience. Lol
When you surfed for over 20 years and learnt to meditate while being held down by a fifteen foot bomb while being rolled and bounced , yeah then its painless and dreamlike. Maybe not quite so for things that don't usually go in the water, eh Philk.

Break neck, or crush brain.


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## Brettix (Nov 27, 2007)

With kindness.
or a house brick:twisted:.


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 27, 2007)

Would you like to be put into a freezer to die??? I know i certainly wouldn't, let me tell you, there is very little sleeping and very little piece. There is, however, a whole world of pain and alot of suffering!!!


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 27, 2007)

JasonL said:


> I wait for them to die from old age, that is the least cruel method, it's just that mt snakes keep dying of starvation????


LMAO


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## Grant_G (Nov 27, 2007)

No electricians on hand to recomend a bit of 240 volt justice?
it's still used in 10 US states.... (new can of worms)


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## Col J (Nov 27, 2007)

I would say "brick 'em", except for knowing that my post would be deleted, even though it's OK for others to suggest drowning as a humane method of euthanasia.


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## Mystery (Nov 27, 2007)

Now I have heard it all - I was just talking to a guy that is breeding his own rats for food. I asked how he is killing them. He sticks a pin in their ear through to their brain!!!


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

Mystery said:


> Now I have heard it all - I was just talking to a guy that is breeding his own rats for food. I asked how he is killing them. He sticks a pin in their ear through to their brain!!!



Would not think that is humane - rat brain small - hard to hit with a pin (I would think). Certainly not what I recommend.


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## noni (Nov 27, 2007)

with all the methods that involve breaking the skin like smacking with a brick etc what's the deal with thawing them after you freeze them? is there an issue with guts leaking everywhere? or are we just talking about smashy-smashy with the brick then feeding them straight to the snake?


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## Magpie (Nov 27, 2007)

noni said:


> with all the methods that involve breaking the skin like smacking with a brick etc what's the deal with thawing them after you freeze them? is there an issue with guts leaking everywhere? or are we just talking about smashy-smashy with the brick then feeding them straight to the snake?


 
You don't break the skin at all if you do it right. You merely snap the neck / dislocate the cervical spine.


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## noni (Nov 27, 2007)

ah righto thanks magpie. i just assumed it would be gory


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## m.punja (Nov 27, 2007)

I used a kg of dry ice, knocked 200 day olds withint about 2 minutes. no need for a chamber or anything, i just seperated the cry ive into four plastic bins, put newspaper over the dry ice, 50 chicks in each bin and put on the lid and they stoped chirping real quick. They were all still warm when I got them out so they certainly didn't freeze to death. Dry Ice creates CO2 so it's the same as a CO2 gas chamber


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## wood_nymph (Nov 27, 2007)

i'm oh so glad this isn't an issue i have to deal with, i only have one snake and i bite the money bullet and buy them frozen. 

from what i have heard here i reckon CO2 is the way if you know what you're doing or can get someone to show you although getting the said CO2 might be tricky esp if you're only kiling a couple a week for fresh kill feeds. as for head smacking just please make sure you have the guts to do it and don;t hesitate at the last minute. i once had a lady buy a mouse with a whole back story with it being a pet for her kids turns out she needed it for a fresh kill lunch. long story sort she chickened at the wrong time panicked and actually bought it back to me in tears not knowning how she could finish it off so i was presented with a box with a mouse missing a part of its face still running around sacred and presumable in a hell of a lot of pain. not having any CO2 in store i had to force myself to finish the job, first and only time i'll ever do it though i felt pretty bad after and i don't particularly like mice at all.


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## cockney red (Nov 27, 2007)

*Get a Vogon to read his poetry to it.*


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 27, 2007)

G'day guys,

C02 is definitely the way to go. Contrary to popular belief in this thread, when used correctly it doesn't have a "drowning" affect.

Putting them in the fridge to make them dormant, and then into the freezer is just as cruel as putting them in the microwave, and then into an open fire.


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## wood_nymph (Nov 27, 2007)

LMAO at cockney, i just watched the movie again yesterday!!


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## Hsut77 (Nov 27, 2007)

cockney red said:


> *Get a Vogon to read his poetry to it.*


It will work but is it only the 3rd worst in the universe!

Classic call Cokney!


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## steph (Nov 27, 2007)

herpie boy said:


> a few tamazipan and and few scotches would be the most humane way for the lil fella to go.


 
LMAO sounds pretty good to me....i'll go that way any day 

so where do you get the co2 from?
is it expensive?
and how exactly do you do it (gas chamber)?


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## pythonmum (Nov 27, 2007)

Vogons are only 3rd - try poetry of Azgoths of Kria or Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings.

If limited to current earthly methods, I have discussed this with a veterinary anaesthetist. If you are killing without drugs (bummer!) cervical dislocation is considered the most humane. As soon as you dislocate the neck there is massive cerebral bleeding and instant death. They may twitch a bit, but it's quicker than CO2 and much neater than the smashing method. Smashing also involves massive cerebral bleeding, but with skull fracture, etc. CO2 is officially approved by various ethics monitoring organisations and is easier if you want to kill lots of animals at once.


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## WombleHerp (Nov 27, 2007)

cockney red said:


> *Get a Vogon to read his poetry to it.*


 
omg i LOVE that movie!!


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

steph said:


> so where do you get the co2 from?
> is it expensive?
> and how exactly do you do it (gas chamber)?



BOC Gas - very cheap, under $10 per kg and believe me a kg of CO2 is a freak of a lot of gas!

Just watch it - in solid form it is -90'C or more - can cause burns if you hold onto it for too long.

If you're doing it in a closed container, a small stick of CO2 expands at a HUGE rate - if the lid is tight fitting you'll burst something else (try it in a 2.0L coke bottle for some very dramatic effects - just don't hold on to it and stand well back).

Adding a little water makes the sublimation go very very fast


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## steph (Nov 27, 2007)

so can u get it from bunings??
and u can get it in gas form or solid...which is best??


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

If you get dry ice it's from BOC gas and that's solid. Get it in a pressurised container you can also get it from BOC gas - but I don't know the cost of hiring the cylinder.

Bunnings is unlikely.


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## pythonmum (Nov 27, 2007)

We get dry ice from a local ice maker. Get the yellow pages and see who has it in your area. I use it for science classes. One pellet will burst the cap off a film canister many times - students have great fun with this and it's much safer than the 2 litre Coke bottle. It's also great for 'potion' effects at kids' parties. You can also kill a LOT of mice with a kilo of it. A pressurised cylinder is better for doing a few at a time.


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## Magpie (Nov 27, 2007)

herpsrule said:


> omg i LOVE that movie!!


 

Movie?


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## slim6y (Nov 27, 2007)

Magpie said:


> Movie?



He may or may not have been referring to the book that he believes was made into a movie... Or he just has a vivid imagination - not unlike Douglas himself


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## wokka (Nov 27, 2007)

After reading all this its no wonder that properly killed rodents are a little bit dearer. If you cant afford to treat animals properly , and that includes killing them properly, then leave it to those who can.Of course its not worth the hassle to properly euthanase a handful of animals on a regular basis. Commercial breeders include the cost of humane killling in their costings along with labour, feed and storage.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 27, 2007)

i just smash there heads,it only takes a second and there in heaven..!!!


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## steph (Nov 28, 2007)

i think feeding it strait to the snake alive would be more humane then some of the methods on here but the only problem with that is when the snake gets on to bigger mice id have to be careful that the mice doesnt fight back..... maybe you could put the bigger mice in the fridge for like a min so there not so defensive and then feed it strait to the snake...???
would that be ok??


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## Hsut77 (Nov 28, 2007)

Ahh, no. For the sake of your snake never feed live food. The only human way of dispatching mice are Co2 or quick massive brain trauma.

Think about your suggestion for a second, you are paralysed and something 100 times bigger than you wraps around you and squeezes you to death. Not a nice way to go.


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## Wrasse (Nov 28, 2007)

*watches the three billy goats gruff go trippity trap, trippity trap, over the bridge that steph built*


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## caustichumor (Nov 28, 2007)

Yeah steph you could do that, or you could just cut off mousey's feet and smash out mousey's teeth. that way your snake won't be in any danger. Did you read the preceding 6 pages of this thread you started?


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## slim6y (Nov 28, 2007)

I must be tripping here or something... yep... high on some kind of weird freaky stuff - someone must have put it in my cocoa pops - I swear I just read somewhere someone thought that feeding mice that were chilled for one minute in a fridge was more humane than pre-killing them.... No... I couldn't have seen that.. it must be a g-up. 

OMG, I looked again, it's still there!

OOOOOk... I think that we have a problem - humane means no torture - right?

if you took a kid (lets say your pesky next door neighbours' kid) and through him in the fridge - is that classed as cruel? Is it classed as acceptable? Will it slow him down? Will he be happy in there?

Generally, most human laws don't apply to the animal kingdom, but some do... And this is one of them. I am fairly positive refridgerating mice to 'slow them down' is not constitutional in the laws of protecting our animals...

Secondly - not only will one miniute do NOTHING to slow the mouse down, but will probably antagonise the poor thing.... A WHOLE night wouldn't slow the mouse down - if I recall rightly they have a furry coating and survive rather well in severe cold temperatures (that's below freezing) - i think the animal will die of starvation or suffocation before the fridge gets him!

So... in summary... i'd like to point out that dispatching the mouse quickly, painlessly and with the least stress is the healthiest option for the snake (less lactic acid build up in the mouse) and the quickest least painful for a mouse!

Capiche'

Easy...

No more hallucingenic cocoa pops for me!


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

Ok....if i ever breed the smaller rodent ,....................i'll invite you lot to judge their individual way of death!
happy right now not to have snakes!......wont tell my son that.

Have to ask .....what about a syringe full of air straight into the blood stream...
no i'll effect to rodent but death.. painlessly & no chemicals for the eatee'

Try changing to SpecialK.. its the highlite of the day!!! LOL


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 28, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> Ok....if i ever breed the smaller rodent ,....................i'll invite you lot to judge their individual way of death!
> happy right now not to have snakes!......wont tell my son that.
> 
> Have to ask .....what about a syringe full of air straight into the blood stream...
> ...


Are you serious??? Causing a massive air embolism leading to death via heart attack and you think it is painless??? You are one seriously twisted woman. With some of the suggestions your coming out with i'm surprised you haven't suggested changing their food pellets to *bindeez* when you ready to feed them, that should knock them off.


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## slim6y (Nov 28, 2007)

OMG - the hallucinagens aren't wearing off... SpecialK isn't for me I think...

Magical cocoa pops in a land far far away where tinky winky and the other fat one live...

Well - syringe and air - almost as clever as dipping them in liquid nitrogen. 

Look... think of it this way - if you had a choice and could die by one of several ways what would you choose:

1) Dipped in liquid nitrogen
2) Gassed in a peacful surround
3) Syringed with air till the gas bubble reaches your heart and stops it pumping
4) Being placed in a freezer till you either suffocate or freeze to death
5) Being beaten around the head - one quick blow is all it takes

So what will you choose?


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## Hsut77 (Nov 28, 2007)

I'd choose a massive dose of your special Coco Pops Slim6y. Trip out and float away.

I think we had better rename this thread to 'What's the most depraved way of killing mice!'


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

Womanator...... look if you have a problem fine....i just asked if that was ok? did you actually read what i wrote..... seriously it was a question .... 
Previously i had said what a customer of mine(i breed other animals to!) had told me .... she put baby guineas in the fridge to slow them down...then in the freezer.
Gather this is a piece of advice for all .... if you dont wont your heads bitten off ... dont ask a question 

Going to apologise to any who took offense to my questions!

Slim6y... dont mean to put you off your cereal...sorry


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 28, 2007)

Dragon lady, i think the general concensus is to gas them, or brick them. Also i'd be telling your friend that is putting guineas into the fridge to cut it out immediately... i think you'll find it's not only cruel & inhumane, but also illegal.


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## slim6y (Nov 28, 2007)

actually DL - I will stick with my highly nutritious and full of sustanance cocoa pops but would like to debate whether asking a question then retalliating on the answers is the best idea...

Perhaps it's more about how it is asked not what is asked.

For example, and I hope you don't mind if I use your syringe post as an example. I read it similar to Womanator:

It reads "Have to ask .....what about a syringe full of air straight into the blood stream...
no i'll effect to rodent but death.. painlessly & no chemicals for the eatee'"

Now I see it's a question, but appears 'statement like' 

Now perhaps in text speak it's hard to hear the variation in your voice to signify a question - but perhaps you could think of it this way....

Would it be better to ask:

Would it be acceptable to use a syringe full of air? I have heard it will also kill a rodent, but will it be painful or cause distress before the death?

I would find it harder to confuse that perhaps - really really really sorry if you think your head was bitten off or steph the same - but if you ask gritty questions, expect gritty answers and be prepared for them.

I won't think any different of anyone who asks questions, but if they don't like the answers then perhaps APS isn't the site for them. There are many opinionated and strong minded people on APS - none of us seem to escape unscathed.

But in the end, where is the best info? It appears right here. None of the answers here seem to have contradicted themselves - they all pointed to the safest most plausable methods for killing the rats or mice, and without a doubt this thread can be closed on the fact you can say::

1) Gas with CO2

2) Quick and massive head trauma (previously explained)

There's no in betweens.



Back to my cocoa pops now 

Have a nice day.

Over and Out


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 28, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> Womanator...... look if you have a problem fine....i just asked if that was ok? did you actually read what i wrote..... seriously it was a question ....
> Previously i had said what a customer of mine(i breed other animals to!) had told me .... she put baby guineas in the fridge to slow them down...then in the freezer.
> Gather this is a piece of advice for all .... if you dont wont your heads bitten off ... dont ask a question
> 
> ...


You asked a question about using an air filled syringe method or not, you never asked if it was humane. YOU stated it was painless and had no ill effect for the rat. I simply pointed out (in a rather abrupt way) that this was not the case.



> no i'll effect to rodent but death.. painlessly & no chemicals for the eatee'


 
i believe that is a statement, not a question. The only question was whether it was a used method or not.

Also for someone who breeds animals, you seem to have little common sense about animal welfare. What did you think putting a mouse in the fridge and then freezer would do to the mouse??? 

May i ask what sort of animals you breed??


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## Hetty (Nov 28, 2007)

being dipped in liquid nitrogen would be okay, as long as the freezing was done to the whole body, and not like.. legs first or something. That would probably _really_ hurt.


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

So you got out of the wrong side of the bed.......

a question is a question ..not a statement...........yes i want feed back & as for NAME CALLING
If i was TWISTED you aint no sister of mine...gather you would rather get up someones back then ask them to explain what they meant!
I said that a CUSTOMER of mine who bought Guineas off of me said she put the in the fridge ,then freezer.. havent seen her since(3yrs ago!)
Maybe reading all threads ,before getting childish & ranting ,rather than asking politely if you didnt understand 
basic english...would be a benefit to you!
My experience with animals is wide & v****.....probabley more than yours with manners!

I do believe that knowledge is the only benefit in life .... how do you obtain this if your questions get ................BEEPED! by ilmannered thing that roam the earth!


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## ozianimals (Nov 28, 2007)

Use 100% chloraform from the chemist, they fall asleep and then die.

Use chloraform on cotton wool and hold over mouses nose/mouth. When unconsious put into ziplock bag with soaked cotton wool for a couple of seconds (approx 45) and they will be dead.
Otherwise CO2 or the hit on the head method.


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## caustichumor (Nov 28, 2007)

Chloroform eh? I didn't know you could buy that at the chemist! and I have been wasting my time with Rohypnol! joking ppl....


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

Ozianimals... that was polite well mannered.. thank you!


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## slim6y (Nov 28, 2007)

Are you sure you can buy chloroform from the chemist?

That was the accepted method in the old days for disection - I wonder if you can still buy it. I'd think it would be rather restrictive because of the danger it poses to humans.

But I would agree this method has been accepted in the past, so I wonder if it's still an acceptable method.

PS - Dragon Lady - who were you referring to by the way? I thought I was polite with my retort. Apologies if I stepped over the mark - has been a morning fueled by cocoa pops!


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## ozianimals (Nov 28, 2007)

slim6y you need to share those cocoa pops around............
From what I am told, it is available from a chemist and is used by some carers at Sydney Wildlife for euthanasing feed for wild native animals such as owls and hawks. They also use it when immediate euthanasia is required on an injured animal. I use prekilled ones from the pet shop as I know they have been frozen for a decent time frame and will not have any worms etc.
That and I am only just starting to breed mice and rats for feeders......

Don't forget to get the 100% one as the other strength will only knock them out and takes soooo much longer.....


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## Hetty (Nov 28, 2007)

slim6y said:


> Are you sure you can buy chloroform from the chemist?



I find that a bit odd myself. I worked with it in the labs last semester but we weren't allowed anywhere near it, demonstrators had to dispense it in the fume hoods. And we're allowed to handle 18M HCl so it has to be pretty bad.

It's very carcinogenic and I'm surprised it's okay for snakes to consume rats that have been killed with chloroform.


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

slim6y.......... wasnt you that was ilmannered.. keep eating your pops! sorry that you got that idea!
I was commenting on how some people are soo well mannered & some are not!
i was just asking a question or 2 earlier......... thought that this was the place to do so 
chloroform would be best way for rodent & humans... keep that in mind


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 28, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> So you got out of the wrong side of the bed.......
> 
> a question is a question ..not a statement...........yes i want feed back & as for NAME CALLING
> If i was TWISTED you aint no sister of mine...gather you would rather get up someones back then ask them to explain what they meant!


I understand the difference between a question and a statement. You on the other hand seem unable to express this difference in writing. May i draw your attention to the following, particularily the line in bold.....



dragon lady said:


> Have to ask .....what about a syringe full of air straight into the blood stream...
> *no i'll effect to rodent but death.. painlessly & no chemicals for the eatee'*


 
A question would have asked if this was the effect from a syringe of air, not stated that this is what occurs. It would also include a question mark!!!!!



dragon lady said:


> I said that a CUSTOMER of mine who bought Guineas off of me said she put the in the fridge ,then freezer.. havent seen her since(3yrs ago!)


Yes i know that is what you said. However, you promptly followed it with......



dragon lady said:


> & back to what i wrote earlier.......... mice are dorment during winter!..you dont see a mice plague during winter... ah,arh!..... its like they are in sedation... similar to our reptiles... its called HIBERNATION!!!!!


 
This statement make me believe that you feel it is OK to put mice in the freezer as they experience cold weather in the wild. Therefore making you sound pro freezer death. Sorry if this is not the case, it was simply how it presented.




dragon lady said:


> Maybe reading all threads ,before getting childish & ranting ,rather than asking politely if you didnt understand
> basic english...would be a benefit to you


 
Understanding basic english isn't my problem. You writing legible, basic english does seem to be the problem. If you took a minute to read what you are writing people might not have so much trouble understanding it or misinterpreting it.




> My experience with animals is wide & v****.....probabley more than yours with manners!
> 
> I do believe that knowledge is the only benefit in life .... how do you obtain this if your questions get ................BEEPED! by ilmannered thing that roam the earth!


 
I never once doubted your level of experience. The best way to obtain an answer, therefore giving you the knowledge, is to ask a decent and correctly written question in the first place. That is how you obtain that!

I do apologise for calling you twisted, that was alittle harsh and sorry it upset you so much.


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## skunk (Nov 28, 2007)

cant agree more with baz (snnaakkeeeman) on this one. i used to work as an animal tech at monash & id have to say cervical dislocation would be the best n quickest way to knock a mouse off (somewhat similar to smashing it on a brick ...they die quick lol) if ur only doing a few of em. if u were culling 100's of em then gass would be the way to go.

just make sure if ur guna use the cervical dislocation method, u learn how to doit properly otherwise the mouse is guna be in a world of hurt b4 it dies


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 28, 2007)

skunk said:


> cant agree more with baz (snnaakkeeeman) on this one. i used to work as an animal tech at monash & id have to say cervical dislocation would be the best n quickest way to knock a mouse off (somewhat similar to smashing it on a brick ...they die quick lol) if ur only doing a few of em. if u were culling 100's of em then gass would be the way to go.
> 
> just make sure if ur guna use the cervical dislocation method, u learn how to doit properly otherwise the mouse is guna be in a world of hurt b4 it dies


Exactly. I've found using pre-killed mice (gassed) is the way to go. You practice getting the movement down pat so you hear the crack/pop first time, everytime. Not the nicest thing in the worl dbut it certainly is painless.


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## indicus (Nov 28, 2007)

Wow!!!...100 posts on how to kill a rodent.
Forgive me as i haven't read the entire thread.
However i prefer a quick, fast... SMACK!!!!
on the back of the head.
IMO it's a lot less stress then gassing etc,
where; eg: a rat is crammed in a bin with others;
they jump around for sometime before succumbing.
How many of you have had to go through a freezer
full of chickens....to find the few that didn't die?


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

Dont think you are getting away with that, that easy!..... you questioned my experience with animals( this is wide & v****) & what animals... this i did not answer.

I make my own cremes & natural ointments to heal animals....... i had a budgie(native ..wounded) 
that was missing from the elbow down of i\one of its wings...it grew back with my care& experience.

Dont rightly now care what you think... & i dont as this point of time except your thin & showy apology


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## CodeRed (Nov 28, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> Dont think you are getting away with that, that easy!..... you questioned my experience with animals( this is wide & v****) & what animals... this i did not answer.
> 
> I make my own cremes & natural ointments to heal animals....... i had a budgie(native ..wounded)
> that was missing from the elbow down of ione of its wings...it grew back with my care& experience.
> ...


 
your budgie grew back a wing, bone and all !!!:shock::shock::shock:


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## dragon lady (Nov 28, 2007)

Yes...not my budgie...1 that was brought to me to heal... most species will attack the mamed or disformed of their own kind... years ago ...i still do make ointments to heal pr animal ..including human

& to question without even knowing me or to say that i dont think of the welfare of animals... BEEP!

all i did was ask questions........i only use rodents to increase the protein of my reptiles.. they are bought!


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 28, 2007)

gee up ppl,who gonna take the bait?


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## Wrasse (Nov 28, 2007)

Sorry ssssnakeman, not me, I am too busy examining this brick wall to see if I can count how many heads have been bashed against it.


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## Miss B (Nov 28, 2007)

Lol. It's not even worth replying to such a stupid statement, so not me (oh whoops, I just did )


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## JasonL (Nov 28, 2007)

ssssnakeman said:


> gee up ppl,who gonna take the bait?



cause I'm sure we can squeeze out another 6 pages from this topic............on what is the best way to kill your mouse, that whilst you have been reading this, has probably eaten it's offspring and raped a few of it's women folk.


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## method (Nov 28, 2007)

lmao yer, so if i chop of my finger can i buy some of your ointment.


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## Just_Joshin (Nov 28, 2007)

JasonL said:


> cause I'm sure we can squeeze out another 6 pages from this topic............on what is the best way to kill your mouse, that whilst you have been reading this, has probably eaten it's offspring and raped a few of it's women folk.


lmao, you keep bringing out great lines mate!!!

As to the other debate i seem to have started........:shock::shock::shock:


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## dragon lady (Nov 29, 2007)

Yes this is about rodents ultimate ending....& nothing else ...so sorry for the stress to all...(but 1)

As for my ointments ..P.M me & i'll give the details...but no regrowth to bone ,,but skin yes!


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## slim6y (Nov 29, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> As for my ointments ..P.M me & i'll give the details...but no regrowth to bone ,,but skin yes!



Perhaps you should proactively seek customers... start with this guy http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69400

:lol:

I am upset I missed the radical 'igronance' comments - considering I was wondering if half the comments on here are actually based on igronance.


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## nuthn2do (Nov 29, 2007)

dragon lady said:


> Yes this is about rodents ultimate ending....& nothing else ...so sorry for the stress to all...(but 1)
> 
> As for my ointments ..P.M me & i'll give the details...but no regrowth to bone ,,but skin yes!



Do you mix these creams up in a well ventilated area?


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