# Blue Rat?? PICS



## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey peeps, i breed a tonne of rats but this bugger popped out of a litter a little while ago was wondering if this is what is considered a blue. Are they really as rare as some have illuded?















thanks for your time

cheers
gary


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeap thats a blue rat, how many generations have you bred that line?


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 31, 2011)

Actually, considering the dove next to him, which I imagine might be a litter mate, I'd say he looks more blue mink to me  

Not rare as hen's teeth, anymore, but still nice for the colour to pop up in your lines!


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

Its hard to say. it is a line i have had for 5 years but i have added new genetics in at times and two seperate strains of lab rats have been bred into it as well.


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## snakeynewbie (Oct 31, 2011)

I was going to suggest mink as well, they often popped up in my litters with doves.


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

lol i assume the non albino is the dove? i couldnt even tell you if it is a sibling or not, they are just three that i grabbed out of the growing tub.


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## jinjajoe (Oct 31, 2011)

they regularly pop up when crossing that lab rat strain..... they are nice hey ????


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

can anyone link me to somehwere with the different colours and picture examples. Who knows what sort of colours i have down their. 

yeah joe i have only jsut started keeping some of the random colours poppin up, i was only keeping the albinos and had 90% albinos about a year ago.


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> I was going to suggest mink as well, they often popped up in my litters with doves.


Blue minks are still Blues, they are just minks as well

Yeah the creamy one is a Dove (which is a ruby-eyed mink)



Kristy_07 said:


> Actually, considering the dove next to him, which I imagine might be a litter mate, I'd say he looks more blue mink to me
> 
> Not rare as hen's teeth, anymore, but still nice for the colour to pop up in your lines!


yeah I thought BM as well but the lack of a head cap had me thinking otherwise, but hey they arent always that noticeable

As Kristy said they arent all that rare anymore, at least not in rat circles, finding one at a pet shop for example is not common though.
If you want to breed more its a recessive gene so breeding back to one of the parents will produce more


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## Jdsixtyone (Oct 31, 2011)

Hey dude,

How do your rats not have runny noses or anything?! I get some and set them up like everyone else and they manage to still get myco. How do you set them up if you dont mind me asking?

Jordy


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## snakeynewbie (Oct 31, 2011)

Good genes is a good start Jordo. Do some research and find a good breeder(not a pet shop) and go and look at their animals. Bets indicator for whether the babies will be more resistan to myco is their parents. Then look at bedding and cleanliness. I avoid wood shavings for bedding.


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

I Keep them dry and warm. i try not to overcrowd them and they have ad lib food and fresh water. other then that i definitely still get some that show signs but they are euthed as soon as i notice. I do full cleans every fortnight but clean any cage that gets over messy during the week as well

i also use rice hull and shredded paper


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## Ricochet (Oct 31, 2011)

Guaranteed my Darwin ain't gunna give a "Rat's Ar5e" what color they are. He's not racist.


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## Jdsixtyone (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks for the reply guys, i get them from "well known" breeders and they just end up getting it. I keep them warm and never over crowd them, they still manage to get it. I use to do full cleans every 3 days so its not like they where dirty or anything. 

Jordy


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

Pretty much all rats carry mycoplasma unless you get them directly from uninfected lab stock or breeders that have the same strict quarantine control (virtually none).
Unfortunately its something all rat breeders will have to deal with at some stage or another.

You cannot breed it out as its passed on from mother to foetus during birth and/or lactation period.
The best thing you can hope for is to improve the immune system of your line by selective breeding.


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## Rattler (Oct 31, 2011)

nice healthy rats... i got a few minks like that 1 
i think he's playing the harmonica in the last pic ;]


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

anyone care to give me some insight on these

























i have quite a few of these sorts of colours, a few wild type looking ones and some typical black and white and cream and white ones.


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## Jdsixtyone (Oct 31, 2011)

And sorry for going off topic on your thread dude


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## ingie (Oct 31, 2011)

Mink, cinnamon, argente or fawn, dove or buff, silverfawn, mink. The wild type ones are called agouti 

The eye colour is linked to the coat colour. So a black eyed wild looking brown rat is agouti, and the orange rat with bright pink eyes is silverfawn (aka pink eyed agouti). A black rat with black eyes is black (derp), but a cream coloured rat with bright pink eyes is a champagne (aka pink eyed black). It is quite complicated at first but you can learn all about it on Sunshinerats website. Hope this helps!


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

i think the second one is the mother of the blue


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## ingie (Oct 31, 2011)

She would most likely be a cinnamon that carries blue. Cinnamon means an agouti rat that has 2 copies of the mink gene as well. I think that both parents were probably blue carriers seeing as there is only one blue baby. Have a close look at any babies that look like the mum, because they can be blue agouti (not blue carriers) and look exactly like the mum. The only tell is if you part the hair and the base is a cold steel blue instead of a warm grey.


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## saximus (Oct 31, 2011)

Can someone explain this "blue" thing to me? I've heard someone say it before but all I see is an albino and a couple of brown ones in those first pics... :/


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

They are not blue like "sky blue" but a bluish shade of grey


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

ingie said:


> She would most likely be a cinnamon that carries blue. Cinnamon means an agouti rat that has 2 copies of the mink gene as well. I think that both parents were probably blue carriers seeing as there is only one blue baby. Have a close look at any babies that look like the mum, because they can be blue agouti (not blue carriers) and look exactly like the mum. The only tell is if you part the hair and the base is a cold steel blue instead of a warm grey.




i will see honestly this has all gone over my head. lol to many variations, so i guess their is no particular male i should cross the blue female with jsut pot luck? to see if one of the males is a carrier

oh i have bred some of those blue and white ones pictured above before. didnt keep them though.


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

Helikaon said:


> i will see honestly this has all gone over my head. lol to many variations, so i guess their is no particular male i should cross the blue female with jsut pot luck? to see if one of the males is a carrier


Best thing you can do is put her father over her, if you cant do that then her brothers are your best option, although the chances are low as only 50% of the litter will carry the blue gene


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 31, 2011)

Cross the blue female back to Dad to get more blues, or to a sibling to see if he carries 

Actually, a couple of those other rats look like they could be blue based as well, it's difficult to tell in the pics...


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

yeah couldnt tell whihc of my males is the father. or which are her siblings. and then it all depends if i kept any of her brothers. ah well i will jsut see what happens. another one should pop up again soon i would say.


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

Helikaon said:


> yeah couldnt tell whihc of my males is the father. or which are her siblings. and then it all depends if i kept any of her brothers. ah well i will jsut see what happens. another one should pop up again soon i would say.


If you put any male over her then all the offspring will be carriers so either way you will get more eventually


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## ingie (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeah there are too many combinations to remember in one go  Just look at that site if you want to know more. I spent ages looking at it before it all sank in  If you want to make more blue rats quickly, put the blue female with a black male, and then all the babies will be black, but blue carriers. Then put the babies together and they should have around 50% blue babies. Don't put the female with a browny coloured one because it is dominant over the blue and they just look like the mum.


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

i see isee, hmm what about an albino male? i dont think i kept any black males. i think i have a wild looking coloured male maybe. what about jsut a black and white hooded one.


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## Aimees_Dragon (Oct 31, 2011)

Are grey "blue" rats really that rare? I have 2..?


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## ingie (Oct 31, 2011)

Sorry if you cross 2 carriers together each litter should be around 25% blue. Any rat with black on it will do  The albino will just mask the blue if the babies turn out to get 2 copies of blue and 2 copies of albino. Better to just use black as it doesn't mask anything. Put one of the black sons back over the blue mum too. Lots of blues to be made!


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

Aimees_Dragon said:


> Are grey "blue" rats really that rare? I have 2..?


Are they actually blue though or just blue looking minks?


They tend to have poor health though so while not rare their numbers aren't massive, yet


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## Helikaon (Oct 31, 2011)

ingie said:


> Sorry if you cross 2 carriers together each litter should be around 25% blue. Any rat with black on it will do  The albino will just mask the blue if the babies turn out to get 2 copies of blue and 2 copies of albino. Better to just use black as it doesn't mask anything. Put one of the black sons back over the blue mum too. Lots of blues to be made!



cool thanks i will organise something. because id say she will be preggos very soon if not already and shes with albino males currently

well went through the whoel colony and found one black male weaned about 2 weeks ago hes the only black male very lucky boy Ingie saved him  him the blue and a 2 other females are in their own tub. thanks for everyones help.


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## dragon170 (Nov 1, 2011)

I know it's a little off topic but has anyone seen or got speckled rats, been chasing them for ages and only evr seen a few photo's :cry:


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## Helikaon (Nov 1, 2011)

never even heard of them. what do they look like? post a pic and you never know the amounts of rat colours that are produced by reptile keepers and probably fed off with out ever realising/caring about the colour would be a amazing i reckon.


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## ingie (Nov 1, 2011)

This one is only patchy because it is moulting.. Looks ridiculous lol


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## AM Pythons (Nov 1, 2011)

i bred alot of blue minks & sold quite a few to another keeper.. not that rare..


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## ingie (Nov 1, 2011)




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## vinny86 (Nov 1, 2011)

Blues arent that rare these days.
I breed rats with fancy colours for feeders just because find it more interesting playing with the genes.
I have just started breeding the 'patchy' Black eye white rats and just the variation in one litter can be crazy, with none of the pups similar to their siblings.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 1, 2011)

The spotted ones are called dalmation, might be easier to find them that way. 

Ingie no rat should look like that even when it is moulting, I'd give it a spray with some mite spray although sometimes their cage mates can get a bit overzealous with the bathing so that could do it to.


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## ingie (Nov 1, 2011)

It is a double silk rat that is moulting into a mink coat. It looks exactly as it should look. They go completely bald and grow it back in a new colour. (It is pretty skinny though, it is a blue carrier and some of it's litter mates already faded, i'm hoping it gains some weight).

Another double silk going through it's moult  so ugly!






The proper name for the speckled rats is mismarked BEW (black eyed white). Lots of people call them Dalmatians too though


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## Rattler (Nov 1, 2011)

Good on ya ingie!


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## Helikaon (Nov 1, 2011)

the black eyed whites are cute, those other buggers are hideious.


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## ingie (Nov 1, 2011)

They really are hideous lol. Once they get all the hair back they look pretty though  Next step is making silk BEW's with mink (grey) spots. Started today


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 1, 2011)

Ah right, hadn't occured to me that it might be a silk, don't know how common they are now but back when I was breeding fancies they were almost unheard of.


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## PicklePants (Nov 2, 2011)

What Rat Is That? has pics and a description of an assortment of colours and markings too. Nice looking bunch you have posted. I've just recently thrown some marking and colour variations I haven't had before. It makes things interesting


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Ah right, hadn't occured to me that it might be a silk, don't know how common they are now but back when I was breeding fancies they were almost unheard of.


Double rexes moult like that as well and they have been around for yonks


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 2, 2011)

I didn't look like a rex though and when I was breeding rexes were something I had only ever seen in photos they weren't easy to find


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## ingie (Nov 2, 2011)

PicklePants said:


> What Rat Is That? has pics and a description of an assortment of colours and markings too. Nice looking bunch you have posted. I've just recently thrown some marking and colour variations I haven't had before. It makes things interesting



That is a good site to see colours. I like the sunshinerats page best though because it explains the genetics of all the colours, markings and coat types so you can get a bit more technical with what you are producing with each pairing. For the nerds hehehe. 

Be careful adding new colours and patterns lol. It turned me into a crazy person! I am not particularly fond of rats as pets, I just like the genetics behind it, and having a goal to work towards that may take many generations to produce with the animals I have.



snakeynewbie said:


> Ah right, hadn't occured to me that it might be a silk, don't know how common they are now but back when I was breeding fancies they were almost unheard of.



Apparently the first silk rat ever was discovered at a little produce store near where I live  I think silks are getting around a bit now in the fancy rat scene, but I don't think they have been dispersed through pet shops etc so I don't know if many other people would have them yet.


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## PicklePants (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, I get confused with genetics and I like the surprise that comes with not knowing how each litter will turn out. I don't breed for pets, although a few have been saved from the freezer by friends over the years.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

For those who get a bit confused this "Litter predictor" is a great tool

Rat Litter Predictor - Sunshine Rats


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## Kimberlyann (Nov 2, 2011)

Wow it all got a bit technical for me there, one of our mothers spat out a blue batch she was a cream hooded as far as i can tell you (i have no idea about technical names) we were so excited about them since i had never seen them before. All our blues have the crown at some stage but loose it when they get older, pretty sure all our rats are blue these days apart from a couple that come out white or cream and we had a black one come out of no where aswell but our first male we ever had was pure black.


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## ingie (Nov 2, 2011)

Kimberlyann said:


> Wow it all got a bit technical for me there, one of our mothers spat out a blue batch she was a cream hooded as far as i can tell you (i have no idea about technical names) we were so excited about them since i had never seen them before. All our blues have the crown at some stage but loose it when they get older, pretty sure all our rats are blue these days apart from a couple that come out white or cream and we had a black one come out of no where aswell but our first male we ever had was pure black.



Do you have any photos of them? The 'crown' is a thing that mink or mink carrier rats get. It is called a moult cap  it is possible that your rats are mink and not blue. They look very similar until you put them side by side.



PicklePants said:


> Yeah, I get confused with genetics and I like the surprise that comes with not knowing how each litter will turn out. I don't breed for pets, although a few have been saved from the freezer by friends over the years.



I tried breeding for pets but the pet rat people have extremely high standards health wise, which are virtually impossible to meet with mycoplasma around and other ratty respiratory issues. They often want to know pedigrees, including the lifespan, temperament and any issues of the parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles lol.Too much fuss for me but they just want to make sure they get a pet that lasts a long time.

I basically am still only breeding to feed reptiles but I have a lot of fun along the way. I have my favourite stud males that are pets I suppose, but the females are all just pretty coloured breeders.


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## Helikaon (Nov 2, 2011)

my one never had the moult cap, i have watched her grow and yes she never had one. Does that mean anythign other then shes not a blue mink. i will get into this a bit more for fun i think. my rat colony takes more time then my snakes but they are fun and i do like genetics


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

Helikaon said:


> my one never had the moult cap, i have watched her grow and yes she never had one. Does that mean anythign other then shes not a blue mink. i will get into this a bit more for fun i think. my rat colony takes more time then my snakes but they are fun and i do like genetics


She could still be a Blue mink as their moult caps can be so faint that you wouldn't notice unless you were looking for it.
The only way to know for certain is by breeding to a rat with known genetics and seeing the results


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## Helikaon (Nov 2, 2011)

i see isee. ah well. Any chance there is a way to breed the black eyed whites?


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

Do you already have some?


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## ingie (Nov 2, 2011)

To produce black eyed whites you need to already have the N gene present. Rats that have a white dot on their head, or other white face markings, are BEW carriers (Nn). So if you can't find anywhere to get a BEW, try looking for a 'headspot' or 'blazed' rat. If you mate 2 of those together you should get a few BEW's, not to mention some really pretty patterns on the coloured babies 

Funny - the rats that I planned to work towards making next - BEW's with mink spots - turns out I already made some by accident! In normal coat and rex. Yay


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

ingie said:


> To produce black eyed whites you need to already have the N gene present. Rats that have a white dot on their head, or other white face markings, are BEW carriers (Nn). So if you can't find anywhere to get a BEW, try looking for a 'headspot' or 'blazed' rat. If you mate 2 of those together you should get a few BEW's, not to mention some really pretty patterns on the coloured babies
> 
> Funny - the rats that I planned to work towards making next - BEW's with mink spots - turns out I already made some by accident! In normal coat and rex. Yay



Not all head marked rats are BEW hets, all the blazes and head markings I produce are from a non BEW lineage


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## ingie (Nov 2, 2011)

That is interesting to know  I only have the BEW kind. Do you produce a higher amount of wedges and larger blazes with those guys?


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## Helikaon (Nov 2, 2011)

well now im itching to go and find some new rats. mine probably need some new genetics anyway


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

ingie said:


> That is interesting to know  I only have the BEW kind. Do you produce a higher amount of wedges and larger blazes with those guys?


Im not sure are I havent bred BEW's before but my understanding is BEWs produce head markings a bit more consistently although both are hard to perfect


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## Darkhorse (Nov 2, 2011)

Awww Gaz... wish you had't posted those photos of your cute rats.... makes me feel terrible that I just fed one of your rats to my Darwin!!!


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## S&M Morelia (Nov 3, 2011)

That's not a blue rat, this is a blue rat







And no, this isn't photoshopped.


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## Saz (Nov 3, 2011)

ingie said:


> That is interesting to know  I only have the BEW kind. Do you produce a higher amount of wedges and larger blazes with those guys?



Yep, approx 40-50% of the offspring are wedge blazed - much better odds than with Nn.














They also produce a lot of odd eyed offspring. Pink eyed dove - spooky looking!


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## Justdragons (Nov 3, 2011)

S&M Morelia said:


> That's not a blue rat, this is a blue rat
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if thats real i would keep him for a pet for shaw... awesome looking rat..


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## S&M Morelia (Nov 3, 2011)

Oh it's real alright.

Here's the link
Blue Food Dye Treats Spine Injury in Rats | Wired Science | Wired.com


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## Helikaon (Nov 4, 2011)

Those wedge blazed are cute, look way better then the typical hooded


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