# Fruit and Veg for Rats



## TigerCoastal (May 2, 2010)

Hey all we have just bought some rats for our kids and am just wondering if there is any fruit and veg that is better to feed to rats? and is there any that we should stay away from?


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## PythonPro (May 3, 2010)

avocado is full of fat, but they love it.


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## diamondgal79 (May 3, 2010)

they love carrot,peas,corn on the cob,apples,bananas,tomatoes,beans.


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## TigerCoastal (May 3, 2010)

yeah the first thing that they got when we got home was carrot and apple, and the kids were eating watermelon last night and when they were finished they fed a little bit to the rats and they seemed to enjoy that, they were hand feeding on the first night home


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## TWENTY B (May 3, 2010)

isn't avacado toxic to most animals?
My rats get whole corn's and carrots 
Sometimes apple or peaches that are to soft.


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## diamondgal79 (May 3, 2010)

i dont feed avocados as i know they are toxic to chickens (which i also have) so i just got into the habit of not feeding it to anything else.


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## Jungletrans (May 3, 2010)

Each week when we do the food shopping for us we move any leftover fruit and veg to the rat and mouse bin . Also slightly stale bread , buscuits , cake etc . Leftover food scraps from our meals , they will eat anything . This is on top of the rat pellets , wild bird seed and working horse mix . The little buggers eat better than l do .


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## cwtiger (May 3, 2010)

I feed mine pretty much everything except for cabbage and beetroot leaves. The get the cereal that has gone stale. They love the left over hard taco shells. I make up a mix of oats left over cereal biscuits and taco shells that have gone stale they love it. Mine really love corn, lettuce, carrot, cucumber, celery on top of their pellets and mix.


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## sweethips12 (May 3, 2010)

this site here has a great list of what you can and cant feed them.

Feeding Pet Rats - What to Feed Your Pet Rat


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## TigerCoastal (May 3, 2010)

thanks for that, avocardo isnt a problem as no one in the house eats it, and ill stay away from cabbage and beetroot leaves. Is there anything else that can cause problems for them? With 4 kids they are going to get fresh fruit multiple times a day but it will mostly be apples, banana's, Carrots, oranges and mandarines, and once a week grapes or some form of mellon.


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## deebo (May 3, 2010)

mine love potatoes! Whenever i come back from our place at goomburra I always stop at Aratula and pick up about 20kg of potatoes and they dont last long at all!

I also feed them pumpkin and they chow through that. I buy lots and cut it up and then freeze it and then feed them a big frozen chunk and they chew on it for a long time. The only thing iwth pumpkin is that it can make their fur go orange when the crawl around it, im sure some people have wondered why the rats they get from have orange bellys when they defrost them....


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## cwtiger (May 3, 2010)

Forgot to add thanks for jogging my memory David. They also love pumpkin seeds as in the fresh ones. I can't think of anything else that you can't feed will post if I do. They also like small amounts of cooked pasta or rice. And make sure they have lots of water mine drink alot.


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## sweethips12 (May 3, 2010)

The only other thing i can think of that you cant feed them is onion.


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## solar 17 (May 3, 2010)

*fresh corn, has got to be right up there, especially in the mornings...cheers solar 17 [baden*


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## Waterrat (May 3, 2010)

What's the best diet for mice?


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## diamondgal79 (May 3, 2010)

i use the same for mice as i do for rats.
Good quality pellets,vegies,fruit,pasta,birdseed,rice,rolled oats,stale (not mouldy) bread.


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## Waterrat (May 3, 2010)

I found that my mice are not keen at all on any hard stuff such as carrots and also fresh fruit. They prefer soft lettuce leaves, corn, etc.. Is _bird mix_ (mixed seeds) good for them?


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## AM Pythons (May 3, 2010)

potato's, pumkin,carrots,corn, scraps, stale breed,beetroot,beans,pea's,celery,dry pasta,apple,pear... anything except onion,meat.. but always pellets are on offer..


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## Lonewolf (May 3, 2010)

Here's a list of unsafe food for rats i've pinched from the fanciers forum. Posted by Dimruthien.

Alfalfa - contains canavanine which can cause hypersensitivity illness
Avocado - skin and pips are toxic
Alcohol - toxic
Beans - Lima and Kidney in particular, but I'd avoid all uncooked beans. In an uncooked state they contain cyanide
Brussel Sprouts, Cabbage, Kohlrabi - All can cause thyroid problems (goitre)
Canola (and canola products) - comes from rapeseed, which is toxic
Carbonated beverages - Way too sugary, even diet sodas contain artificial sugars
Cottonseed Oil - it is suspected to cause illness, but as yet is unproved. I'd probably avoid it anyway!
Comfrey - can cause bladder tumours
Fruit Tree Leaves - toxic, and can cause a range of illnesses and symptoms
Fruit pips - contain cyanide
Green Potatoes - toxic 
Medicinal Herbs - can be toxic, and can cause allergies
Licorice, Salmiakki - can cause high blood pressure, salmiakki has too much salt
Margarine - can be toxic, and also often contains canola 
Millet - contains cyanide
Morning Glory - is a hallucinogen 
Nightshades - toxic. the nightshade family also includes potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant. it's a good idea not to feed rats leaves, just in case!
Nutmeg - is a hallucinogen
Orange rind - carcinogen, particularly in males
Peanuts - can contain mould
Peanut Butter - choking hazard, sometimes contains rapeseed oil 
Periwinkle/Myrtle - is a hallucinogen
Rhubarb - toxic
Spinach - toxic
Sweet Potato/Kumara - can often have some degree of fungal growth, it is fine peeled and cooked
Artificial Sweeteners - are mostly toxic but it is safe to use Stevia and honey 
Wild Insects - can carry parasites, bacteria, etc. much safer for your rats to buy insects at the pet store (or breed your own)


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## Lonewolf (May 3, 2010)

We feed our mice and rats wild bird seed mixed with muesli, cat/dog biscuits, dry pasta and any leftover dry cereal like weetbix, cheerios or cornflakes.

Plus we give them dinner leftovers.


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## TWENTY B (May 3, 2010)

*Twenty B searches the cupboards for some nutmeg.


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## cwtiger (May 3, 2010)

I fed my mice the same stuff as I fed my rats. They haven't left anything behind. I also throw a handful of wild bird seed in with them from time to time. They love to chew on and play in grass not cut with the mower but just picked by hand.


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## Jungletrans (May 3, 2010)

With that list l'm suprised they arnt extinct . Some of it is over the top , not feeding things because they " might contain mould ". And why cant rats trip like everyone else .


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## giglamesh (May 3, 2010)

mine loved mulberries


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## Dipcdame (May 3, 2010)

I used to give my two pet rats frozen peas in a bit of water on hot days, they loved bobbing for peas!


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## Tsubakai (May 3, 2010)

They'll go crazy for mealworms.


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## syeph8 (May 3, 2010)

Lonewolf said:


> Nutmeg - is a hallucinogen
> Periwinkle/Myrtle - is a hallucinogen


 
why did i not know this? i give mine nutmeg in their coffee every morning! (who would give nutmeg to a rat?) 
on another note, i dont believe i have ever seen periwinkle or myrtle or know what they are for that matter, but im gonna mix them with some nutmeg and measure their effects on humans (fingers crossed)


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## Sdaji (May 4, 2010)

Jungletrans said:


> With that list l'm suprised they arnt extinct . Some of it is over the top , not feeding things because they " might contain mould ". And why cant rats trip like everyone else .


 
You are, of course, correct. Rats are nature's ultimate scavenging generalist feeder, so it stands to reason that they can eat just about anything. Pet rat people can be... let's just say... 'overcautious' (though you could justifiably use stronger words). Rat enthusiasts are an astoundingly passionate bunch, but this brings in emotion, and emotion is a great tool in blinding you from seeing things rationally. Their passionate desire to care for their rats brings in a large amount of paranoia (admittedly, reptile people sometimes suffer from a similar but generally milder affliction). Off the top of my head I can't think of anything people can eat but rats can't. Sure, you wouldn't want to feed your rat a bowl full of nutmeg, but then again, only an escaped mental patient would want to, and the rat wouldn't eat it anyway. If rats were stupid enough to eat poisonous things they would normally encounter in the wild they would be extinct. It's quite bizarre to see a list containing random things like peanuts and millet (a grain which could be used as a staple) next to poisonous weeds no one would ever consider to be food for a rat or human. When did spinach become toxic?

I'll try not to feed my rats too much salmiakki just in case they get slightly too much salt.


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## Sdaji (May 4, 2010)

syeph8 said:


> why did i not know this? i give mine nutmeg in their coffee every morning! (who would give nutmeg to a rat?)
> on another note, i dont believe i have ever seen periwinkle or myrtle or know what they are for that matter, but im gonna mix them with some nutmeg and measure their effects on humans (fingers crossed)


 
That list is awesome, isn't it? :lol: It has been circulating around rat communities for years. I'm pretty sure it was originally written as a practical joke (well, I know it wasn't, but it would make more sense that way). When it includes some of the most obscure plants around, it gives the impression of being comprehensive, but it misses plenty of obvious problems and includes potential staples :lol:

For the record, I am pretty conservative with what I give my rats. They get a bit of carrot, woodies, sometimes eggs, meat and rarely rice or other grains, as well as their staples. Our pet rats get chocolate cake and a few other stupid treats :lol: Most of our kitchen scraps (which probably contain all sorts of "deadly poisons" go to the chooks. I'm amazed we haven't died from eating the concentrated poison in the eggs.


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## Kristy_07 (May 4, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> Their passionate desire to care for their rats brings in a large amount of paranoia (admittedly, reptile people sometimes suffer from a similar but generally milder affliction).



Disagree. Reptile-owner paranoia is similarly intense 

Of course, rats are super hardy animals that can eat almost anything in the wild. They are the second most successful scavenger/plague-animal in the entire world, after the human race 

But, as pets, there are some things that are wise to steer clear from. Rhubarb and spinach are two of the big ones. Rhubarb will kill most rodents, from mice to rabbits. Too much citrus isn't great for them either, but since the Vit C is really great for their condition, I think a bit on Ribena in their water is a much better option than giving them oranges everyday. Too much pumpkin will give them the trots - not pleasant for the animals, or the cage-cleaner. Too much dairy is pretty bad, too, and meat as a protein source makes them smell A LOT stronger (including a staple diet of just dog food)(the dairy makes them smell, too). Hard stuff like carrot, corn, even wood soaked in veggie stock will naturally wear their teeth down, which is important, too.

While they can survive on plenty of other foods, it's nice to know you're feeding your kids' pets a diet that's healthy for them. I used to stick with pellets and bird mix as a staple, and give healthy mixed veggies every or every other day.

Love the "bobbing for peas" game 

Good luck!


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## Sdaji (May 4, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Disagree. Reptile-owner paranoia is similarly intense
> 
> Of course, rats are super hardy animals that can eat almost anything in the wild. They are the second most successful scavenger/plague-animal in the entire world, after the human race
> 
> But, as pets, there are some things that are wise to steer clear from. Rhubarb and spinach are two of the big ones. Rhubarb will kill most rodents, from mice to rabbits. Too much citrus isn't great for them either, but since the Vit C is really great for their condition, I think a bit on Ribena in their water is a much better option than giving them oranges everyday. Too much pumpkin will give them the trots - not pleasant for the animals, or the cage-cleaner. Too much dairy is pretty bad, too, and meat as a protein source makes them smell A LOT stronger (including a staple diet of just dog food)(the dairy makes them smell, too). Hard stuff like carrot, corn, even wood soaked in veggie stock will naturally wear their teeth down, which is important, too.


 
Humans might give them a run for their money, but rats still win. I can think of plenty of things which rats happily devour which humans... couldn't/wouldn't. Good point about dairy, it's not good for rats (or many humans for that matter). Fruit or soft vegetables aren't great for rats - they can eat them, but they aren't naturally large parts of rat diets. Root vegetables like carrots are great. I can't say I have ever tried spinach, but if it's deadly to rats, call me astonished then call it an understatement. Humans don't go well on raw rhubarb either, and while it would be a bit silly to offer it to rats, I wouldn't think they would touch it (if they do eat it and it is deadly to them, you might be able to put Ratsak (TM) out of business and become a very rich individual by selling pelletised rhubarb, although I strongly suspect it either to be less deadly than you say or less palatable.

I have never used dog food as I just don't like the idea of using something so processed and modified which is made for another type of animal (I'm sure it's fine, but hey, call me conservative or even paranoid), but when I give them real meat it doesn't noticably change their smell (then again, their staple diet of rodent pellets contains meat anyway).

Rats make their own vitamin C and don't benefit from having it added to their diet  This has been proven in many laboratory studies, the first being around 100 years ago. Interestingly, in the first half of last century, supplementing with additional vitamin C was trialled to improve fertility in rats which were healthy but not reproducing. This failed (and just went to help demonstrate how unimportant dietary vitamin C is to rats) but lettuce improved fertility, which is these days said to be deadly or at least harmful to rats. Why green leafy vegetables are supposed to be so harmful to rats is beyond me.


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## Kristy_07 (May 4, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> Humans might give them a run for their money, but rats still win.
> 
> Rats make their own vitamin C and don't benefit from having it added to their diet  This has been proven in many laboratory studies, the first being around 100 years ago. Interestingly, in the first half of last century, supplementing with additional vitamin C was trialled to improve fertility in rats which were healthy but not reproducing. This failed (and just went to help demonstrate how unimportant dietary vitamin C is to rats) but lettuce improved fertility, which is these days said to be deadly or at least harmful to rats. Why green leafy vegetables are supposed to be so harmful to rats is beyond me.



Hey, Sdaji. I still reckon humans are the bigger pest on the planet. Rats would not be nearly so successful without human urbanisation to feed off, whereas human can colonise almost any environment, establish their own food source, and destroy the environment in the meantime 

I didn't know that about the Vit C! I always thought my females were in heaps better condition when breeding when they had a bit of ribena in their water.... Not leafy green vegetables that are harmful - just spinach


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## syeph8 (May 4, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> When it includes some of the most obscure plants around, it gives the impression of being comprehensive, but it misses plenty of obvious problems and includes potential staples :lol:



im just going to put out there and say its not that comprehensive. yes it does mention periwinkle and kohlrabi which indicates theyve delved into obscurity. but where is warfarin on this list? surely warfarin would be pretty tops on the list of "do not feed to rats"


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## Sdaji (May 4, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Hey, Sdaji. I still reckon humans are the bigger pest on the planet. Rats would not be nearly so successful without human urbanisation to feed off, whereas human can colonise almost any environment, establish their own food source, and destroy the environment in the meantime
> 
> I didn't know that about the Vit C! I always thought my females were in heaps better condition when breeding when they had a bit of ribena in their water.... Not leafy green vegetables that are harmful - just spinach


 
Oh, humans are arguably a larger pest than humans, I meant rats were a better scavenger/generalist feeder. We do a pretty comprehensive job of modifying our inhabited distribution, don't we?

There's nearly a century of laboratory data which says rats don't benefit from dietary vitamin C, so if there's any benefit from Ribena it's from the sugar, some other goody in there, or, it's imagined 

What's in spinach which is so deadly to rats? Rat people often say lettuce is deady/poisonous to them as well.

syeph8: Yeah, that's my point, it's very clearly not anywhere near being 1% of a comprehensive list, which makes most of the inclusions very puzzling, and extremely misleading (if you include something like peanuts, there is the implication that you *really* need to avoid peanuts, because it is in the same list which also includes things which no one in their right mind would ever even consider using). If it's just a few random things it doesn't really have any value (though that boat sailed when they put peanuts etc etc on it, which serve effectively as a "don't take this list seriously because it is clearly extremely wrong" message  ).


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## cwtiger (May 4, 2010)

Yes rats in the wild will eat almost anything. The thing is though that wild rats learn and are taught by their parents what they can and can't it plus it is also breed into them. When we domesticate an animal this trait is bred out of them. So they need to rely on us as responsible owners to make sure we don't feed them the foods that aren't good for them. I haven't heard of lettuce being poisonous I have heard if you feed to much it can cause them to have the runs as I have also been told that fresh fruit and veges make them smell. Well I clean my rats out once a week and no one that comes and visits knows I even have the amount of rats and mice that I have.


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## Serpentess (May 6, 2010)

What my rats love is a little bit of yogurt (greek is best, but not their favourite), baby food (mushed fruits) and some fruit juice (spoon fed on the rare occasion). 

My ratties also love frozen peas and corn on a hot summers day. Put them in an ice-cream container full of water and they go fishing for them. Keeps them cool and gives em a treat/healthy snack.


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## rio_rat (May 7, 2010)

avoid cabbage, onion, garlic, chilli and foods high in sugars, colours, fats and unnatural garbage, and never give them anything carbonated like coke. rats can not burp or vomit (one of the reasons poisons work so well on them) so avoid gassy fruit and veges as well as treats and foods. find or even better make a good rat mix staple diet of grains and seeds (sunflower seeds should only be a treat as they are very fatty) and complimented with a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables. nothing in excess because rats bellies can be rather temperemental and too much of a lot of foods can cause intestinal issues, cancers, fecal unpleasantries, obesity, respiratory issues and lethargy. my baby girl druscilla is 2 yrs 7 mths old and still very active, (having a vet nurse as a mum is a bonus  ) but suffers like most pet shop rats with mycoplasma, an upper respiratory disease. if you have rats or are thinking about keeping them look it up, its treatable but not recorded often as cured, and is usually treated with either one long lifetime of antibiotics or a lot of stints on them, my girl is on vibravet paste (active doxycycline) and sometimes needs extra (baytril and/or metacam) to settle down the irritation and pain. sorry, its 3:52 am, i just came from a busy night at work and i just realised im going on a rant lol 
basically, find what works for you and your rat, find yourself a good KNOWN exotics vet (just because the local vet treats rats doesnt mean they know much!) and come up with a diet everyone can live with!


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## rio_rat (May 7, 2010)

Yes rats in the wild will eat almost anything. The thing is though that wild rats learn and are taught by their parents what they can and can't it plus it is also breed into them. When we domesticate an animal this trait is bred out of them.


^^^^^^^^^
also, wild rats are usually Rattus Rattus, where as our domestic rats are Rattus Norvegicus, and are very different, like crocodiles and alligators i guess you might compare..


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## Sdaji (May 7, 2010)

I love the difference in advice which comes from people who keep a few rats compared to people who keep a few hundred or thousand :lol:

What are the functional dietary differences between Rattus rattus and R. norvegicus, rio_rat? It was my understanding that they were very similar, with only reasonably subtle dietary differences (one being that unlike the ones we keep, R. rattus does better with a bit of fruit). What difference in diet would you give a Saltwater Crocodile vs an American Alligator? I'd be giving them both whole vertebrates, most likely appropriate-sized chickens or mammals, and in the wild they both eat appropriately-sized vertebrates of any type they can smash their jaws around. Rattus rattus and Rattus norvegicus are far more closely related than crocodiles and alligators though, they are closely-related members of the same genus, while not even all crocodiles are in the same genus, let alone crocodiles vs alligators, so the comparison isn't equal.


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## Serpentess (May 7, 2010)

chantelle_savage said:


> What my rats love is a little bit of yogurt (greek is best, but not their favourite), baby food (mushed fruits) and some fruit juice (spoon fed on the rare occasion).
> 
> My ratties also love frozen peas and corn on a hot summers day. Put them in an ice-cream container full of water and they go fishing for them. Keeps them cool and gives em a treat/healthy snack.



This isn't what I strictly feed my rats, these are just treats that they enjoy and are fun to spoon feed to them or watch them go fishing.
They eat a very staple diet of seeds, alfalfa, wheat grains, oats (I buy them their own bag) and cornflakes (I buy them their own box). They also get the crusty end bread bits, lettuce, carrot and sometimes celery.

Two of my rats are 2 years 3 months and one of them has just turned 2 (her sister recently was euthanised because of a tumor in her nose though).


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## rio_rat (May 7, 2010)

yes my comparison wasnt great lol, rattus rattus and rattus norvegicus are very very very different, i will try to give a few examples when im not almost asleep


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## lizardjasper (May 7, 2010)

when I kept rats as pets, they loved corn on the cob - cooked or raw - and cooked pumpkin. They also loved the pumpkin seeds. Apple was another fabourite, as was blueberries and mango!


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## TigerCoastal (May 7, 2010)

thanks for that everyone, the kids love the idea of bobbing for peas/corn, and they already hand feed fruit to them. Keep the strange/enriching ideas comming for the food, also what do you use for toys/entertainment for your rats? I like a challenge and am looking for some home-made ideas that i can give them to help entertain them. At the moment i have a hanging fruit skewer that i hang from the roof, some 3 inch card board tubes, and a cockatiel breeding box as a nesting box. I am not really interested in the running wheels, would rather give them exercise on something that is fun for the rats and fun for the family to watch.


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## PythonPro (May 8, 2010)

big grasshoppers and locust... watch what happens to locust. crunch crunch crunch the only things left are the wings. I keep my rats in starmaid containers with small holes in the lid where fly get through, the rat catch the flys quiet easily.


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## Tail_less (Jun 13, 2010)

Rats will, and can, eat just about anything. You really should stay away from raw potato but cooked is fine. Onion is poisonous to rats (ls it is for dogs) but I would be surprised if they ate it willingly anyway. Rats love fruit of all kinds and it is very good for them. Don't let them have peach seeds (the kernel has ****nic inside) but everything else is good. Cabbage should be ok . Favourites are peas, cooked spud, carrot (raw or cooked) banana and apple.
Junk food, salt and meat should be avoided. Unhealthy and in the case of dog food/meat it makes them and their poop stink and they can get very itchy and scratch their fur out. (Not pretty!)
Veg and fruit and cereals/grain is the best way to go. Oranges and tomatoes will mainly be rejected, some say too acidic for rats but others say their love them. I think rats will only eat what is good for them.
Provide heaps of clean water at all times. Rats cannot vomit so at least they will be able to wash it down or rinse their mouths/faces if it is unpleasant.


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## Sdaji (Jun 13, 2010)

Either all the rats I've ever had have been weird, or the 'meat makes them aggressive' thing is a myth. Our rats are very friendly, and we give our pet rats meat (we have about 20-30 pet rats which are not used as breeders, they're just pets, yes, I know, it's lame :lol: ). The rats being used for snake food are on a more strict and consistent diet, but our pets get just about everything you can imagine, and we haven't found anything yet which will hurt them. If you stick a whole roast chicken in there they get so excited and devour the lot - bones and all. The other day we put the remains of a roast duck in with them, and they were thrilled! They never get the slightest bit aggressive towards each other or us.

Rats are naturally semi predatory, and if they don't get enough protein they'll breed poorly and often eat their own babies. It's not natural or healthy for a rat to be vegetarian. Any good rodent pellet will have some animal protein in it.


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## wokka (Jun 13, 2010)

Rats eat tonnes of macadamias in our orchard. They are amazing that out of a hole in the shell as big as a grain of rice they can eat the whole nut.


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## wokka (Jun 13, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> Rats are naturally semi predatory, and if they don't get enough protein they'll breed poorly and often eat their own babies. It's not natural or healthy for a rat to be vegetarian. Any good rodent pellet will have some animal protein in it.


 
We have done trials between say 1000 breeders on vegetarian diet and 1000 on omnivorus of similiar protien levels, and theres no difference in weaning numbers or growth rates.


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## Sdaji (Jun 13, 2010)

wokka said:


> We have done trials between say 1000 breeders on vegetarian diet and 1000 on omnivorus of similiar protien levels, and theres no difference in weaning numbers or growth rates.


 
Very interesting, thanks for sharing that  I suppose what I've observed has been low protein vs high protein due to the difference between meat and no meat.


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## TigerCoastal (Jun 13, 2010)

so is there any difference between vegetable protein and meat protein? The reason i ask is that i can get textured vegetable (soy) protein, it is used as a meat extender in the food industry,would there be any benefit to my rats if i mixed some of that into their food?


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