# Callous people.



## Dipcdame (Jan 1, 2010)

Family defends not saving joey from snake | News.com.au

How awful, to just sit there and watch the poor mother frantically try to save her baby!!!! How callous.I know it's nature, and there are those who will come on here and tell me to harden up, but I could never sit there, and watch one animal try to save it's baby against such an adversary, thats just awful.

I suppose it kept their tiny minds occupied and amused for a while.


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## redbellybite (Jan 1, 2010)

ERRRRM you own a snake ?.......most motherly instincts would kick in ...if your snake foods mother had the chance it would defend its litter ..a mother hen would protect its chicks etc ...why is this any different? 

How can you own a snake and have that attitude about a wild one getting some grub?
and besides they havent learnt how to use the hungry jacks drive thru yet


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jan 1, 2010)

You dont have to watch it,just go back inside.
Surely you wouldn't intervene would you?
I would watch, and I'd take pics / video, were all different.
It is an amazing series of pics but does not show the mother
in any of them.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 1, 2010)

Snakes have to eat.What did you expect it to do? Go down to Maccas for a burger?


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## snakes4me2 (Jan 1, 2010)

Thats nature for ya, If they had of tried helping it the wallaby probably would have attacked them too, then the story would go in a different direction wouldnt it???


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## kupper (Jan 1, 2010)

i would have tried to stop the mother of the animal being eaten from hurting the snake if anything 
as you said yourself its nature things eat other things 

as for them watching the event most people are scared senseless of the thought of a snake let alone intervening with a scrubby eating a wallaby


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## Dipcdame (Jan 1, 2010)

I just don't understand anyone who can stand by and watch or enjoy the suffering of animals, in any way. yes, I may have tried to pull on the snakes tail or something, at least TRIED for the poor wallaby's sake.

Yes, I own snakes, redbelly bite, but I feed only thawed frozen rats. not live with their mothers in torment. 

I take no pleasure from any suffering, of ANY kind, and anyone who would, I would say the same, CALLOUS.

Would any of you just expect a crowd to gather and watch while your own children were attacked and murdered while you tried desperately to save them? I think not. This is just what that was, be it animal or human - no difference, the same emotions to survive and save are still there.

Call me silly if you like, but I can't tolerate suffering of ANY kind, as I just said.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 1, 2010)

Dipcdame said:


> I just don't understand anyone who can stand by and watch or enjoy the suffering of animals, in any way. yes, I may have tried to pull on the snakes tail or something, at least TRIED for the poor wallaby's sake.
> 
> Yes, I own snakes, redbelly bite, but I feed only thawed frozen rats. not live with their mothers in torment.
> 
> ...



If the snake got hold of a baby rat or bird or any other type of animal.while its mother stood by distressed would you sit back and not intervene or do you have double standards when it comes to these things?


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jan 1, 2010)

> Call me silly if you like, but I can't tolerate suffering of ANY kind, as I just said.


Do you eat or buy meat?


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## Jessica_lee (Jan 1, 2010)

Dipcdame said:


> I just don't understand anyone who can stand by and watch or enjoy the suffering of animals, in any way. yes, I may have tried to pull on the snakes tail or something, at least TRIED for the poor wallaby's sake.
> 
> Yes, I own snakes, redbelly bite, but I feed only thawed frozen rats. not live with their mothers in torment.
> 
> ...


 
dipdcame, you wouldnt call a snake starving to death suffering? Unless you are a vegan that is very hypocritical, as im sure you have eaten an animal that has been living in less than humane conditions in order to end up on your plate. As for feeding frozen, are you 100% certain these anuimals have been treated great their entire lives? 

Sadly that is nature, if you look at it from the snakes point of view, if you hadve been there and intervened it would have gone hungry, and if people intervened every time nature ran its course, well what animals would we have left?

cheers


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## Jonno from ERD (Jan 1, 2010)

...what do you think large Scrub Pythons eat?


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## Lene (Jan 1, 2010)

i find this very interesting...
your right, it is callous, but nature is callous. its kill, go hungry or be killed. 
your just lucky that your a species that gets your meal served in cling wrap, and not in a paddock while the mother sheep looks on as the lamb is slaughtered - by you, so you can feed your kids, or survive another day
nature is all about suffering, and you cant save everything. and if you let it bother you, your not going to be able to rest. do you watch those african documentries, do you want to save every deer? every mother faces losing their offspring to a preditor. sometimes they defend, most often they dont.
and please dont blame the family for watching and doing nothing, it isnt their place to decide the fate of the food chain. humans flaw is that we think we are above nature, and everything can be saved...nature is cruel, but amazing


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## redbellybite (Jan 1, 2010)

This is one of the most BIZARRE threads ever dipC .....in all honesty if you didnt own a snake I could understand why you feel that ..but you own a snake ...
your rat that you feed the snake isnt BORN FROZEN 
it is a cute warm fuzzy baby that its mother looks after and breast feeds and licks clean etc ...
only then a HUMAN comes along and takes away her babies and KILLS them so it can be placed into a FREEZER so YOU can buy them to FEED your SNAKE ...get the picture ?.....
wild snakes dont have humans looking after them to give them thawed food ...its got nothing to do with heartless or sick ..it was an act of nature ....had that been a act of cruelty where a bunch of rednecks were torturing and harming the wallabies and they stood back and only looked on, I could see your point, and YES I WOULD HAVE INTERVENED no worries about that ,and I would presume many others on this forum would have done the same.. 
but a snake eating dinner ...you would rather upset a snake and make it regurgitate its meal ,to which it can be a dangerous situation for the snake to do that ,then allow it to eat a meal .knowing full well that the mother wallaby would have already a baby ready to get back in her pouch ...


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## caustichumor (Jan 1, 2010)

I remember community outrage up here a couple of years ago, when a couple of dingos attacked and killed a wallaby up on one of the northern beaches... People actually seemed amazed that our wild carnivorous animals actually have sharp teeth and claws for a reason.... Now the only time I have ever pulled a prey item out of the mouth of an attacker was a green tree frog that was being swarmed by green weaver ants, A screaming frog is not an easy thing to ignore while you are trying to sleep, and I have been bitten by enough green ants to consider taking the frogs side.....


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## Lene (Jan 1, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> This is one of the most BIZARRE threads ever dipC .....in all honesty if you didnt own a snake I could understand why you feel that ..but you own a snake ...QUOTE]
> 
> i think its sad that people who dont own snakes still dont understand the situation.
> Is it because the wallaby has fur, and eyes that blink, that people think it is more deserving to live than the snake in need of a meal?
> Its not just about people misunderstanding the scaled-animals, its the whole idea that we would rather be ignorant to animals eating other animals, than accept it as a part of life. maybe its because our eating-of-animals is such a distant part of our lives, we really dont understand or appreciate it anymore.


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't see where the argument is... um, the joey was already dead - if it HAD been alive, good luck trying to pry it from the grip of a supposedly 4m scrubby and it surviving the crushing... it's life, they're not gonna evolve aposable (sp) thumbs and be able to farm their food in any great hurry... yeash until someone manages to convince all pythons to eat carrots this is just how it's gonna be.


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## JasonL (Jan 1, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> ...what do you think large Scrub Pythons eat?



Flowers and grass Jonno.... thats what they should eat anyway..... I have to go now and bake my Womas some Cupcakes ( they love the ones with saltanas)


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## gecko-mad (Jan 1, 2010)

if the wallaby was a rare endangered species it would be different, but its nature. thats all you need to know.


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

So Dip, how do you feel about the docco filmers that sit back and watch male lions take over other lion prides and then proceed to kill all the lion cubs that they have not fathered? oooorrr when they film spiders wrapping insects... or wait ! what about when eagles take fish from the water! or anteaters breaking open ants nests etc 

I think you get my point.

PS: They get paid for it too.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Jan 1, 2010)

I think everyone needs to stop having a go at her. 

Dipcdame is entitled to her own opinions and beliefs, and none of you can ever take that right away from her. 

I see where you're coming from Dipcdame, I hate suffering too, but it's just one big circle of nature. If the wallaby doesn't suffer, then the snake will. It's one horrible but interesting everlasting cycle. 

If the scrubby hadn't gotten too close to the wallaby yet then I can't honestly say I would stay out of it. But if the wallaby is already in it's coils and the snakey is halfway through dinner, then I think it's best just to leave it.

It all works out in the end I guess


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## chondrogreen (Jan 1, 2010)

Where is this thread headed once the drugs wear off?


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## Dipcdame (Jan 1, 2010)

Point one: No, I am not a vegan
Point 2....... yes I have eaten animals not brought up in ideal conditions, but do my best nowadays to buy only free range, etc, and honour the animal as best I can. 
Point 3 - I DO own snakes, who eat T/F rats, who have been removed from their mother, but I doubt are euthanased in their mothers view where they try to fight for their babies.
Point 4 - for a family to stand by and watch such a desperate act and do nothing to help, is as I said, CALLOUS - filmmakers must undertake not to interfere with nature.
Point 5 - I am not stupid enough to know this doens't happen in the wild, anyone who thought that, I WOULD call stupid, it's a logical reality, but for the family to stand by and do nothing and still stand and watch, is a CALLOUS act.
Point 6 - yes, snakes do need to eat, and in the wild, they do from time to time, but it is known, that not EVERY creature they prey on are captured and eaten, in fact, I read somewhere where they miss more than they catch, so what difference would the odd animal make that people try to help?
Point 7 - I am sure that annoying or distracting the snake would make it let go of its intended meal - there was NO information that the prey was already dead when first seen by this family
Point 8 - As Waruikazi said in another thread, we are all entitled to our opinions, I just voiced mine. Didn't realize I would get flamed quite so much for having feelings for animals and not liking them being watched during their suffering without as least some attempt to help it.
Point 9 - I understand scaled animals adequately enough to know and successfully rear two, without any major problems as I have read from some on here.
Point 10 - I don't think a love for animals and a need to protect them is bizarre, not in the least. The bizarre behaviour os of the people who would get enjoyment from an animals suffering - THAT is my main concern


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

Tell us then, what COULD they have done?
Would the family have come under the same kind of flaming if they had simply walked away?
Perhaps they were frightened of being harmed by the mother or the snake to get close to them.
Once a snake has something in its grip it's a bit of a lost cause to try and pry it from the coils.
You call them callous for simply watching.... have you ever watched a docco?
Maybe they froze, like people do in a tragic/shocking moment.


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## DA_GRIZ (Jan 1, 2010)




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## naledge (Jan 1, 2010)

I agree with Dipcdame about 80-90%
It would have been hell to watch, and if I had a chance to get in between the snake and wallaby before the snake struck I would. But as others have said, snakes have to eat, so I wouldn't have intervened after the snake's already bitten the wallaby, I'd just feel like crap for the next few days.

Most people on here are incredibly biased - reptiles above all others.
I love all animals, and seeing any in pain or suffering, including rats and mice makes me feel like a prick.


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## caustichumor (Jan 1, 2010)

I think that if that was happening in my backyard, I would be watching it as well (with my kids)... I dont consider that getting enjoyment out of an animals suffering, but watching nature, the constant struggle of life and evolution (survival of the fittest means the young and old are fair game).. "If a wallaby gets eaten in the forest and no-one is their to see it, does it matter?".... That's my zen rhetoric for the day....


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## naledge (Jan 1, 2010)

caustichumor said:


> I think that if that was happening in my backyard, I would be watching it as well (with my kids)... I dont consider that getting enjoyment out of an animals suffering, but watching nature, the constant struggle of life and evolution (survival of the fittest means the young and old are fair game).. "If a wallaby gets eaten in the forest and no-one is their to see it, does it matter?".... That's my zen rhetoric for the day....



Wouldn't watching a creature die slowly and another creature go out of it's mind with emotional pain be a bit too much for kids? It'd be really distressing.


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## Chris1 (Jan 1, 2010)

it didnt sound like the family enjoyed it as such, but its a very rare and educational thing for them and their kids to actually witness such an occurance in real life.

i find myself feeling horrified by nature docos all the time, but thats nature, and i coudnt imagine seeing it in real life. But after trying to remove a small snake from a rat it couldnt find the head of (without making a mess of the rat) i dont like anyones chance of winning against a 4m scrubby.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

Your right snakes do miss alot more prey than they get to eat, which is why when they do get hold of one its crucial they eat it.
I wish i was there, as callous as it might be, watching such an amazing predator in action right in my backyard would be nature watching at its best imo


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## Lonewolf (Jan 1, 2010)

look i love animals but all you that are against what that family did need to come back to reality 
if you think about it by the time any one would have seen the scrubby it would have been too late and you think about how long it would have taken to STRIKE-COIL-CRUSH apposed to the time it would have taking for an average adult human to react that joey would have would have goten injuries so bad that it would have never of survived a trip to the vet 

also the mother probable wasn't trying to save the joey it was probable trying to save its self 
iv been out shooting wallabies (for food not fun and they were all tagged) and have never been attacked


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## bfg23 (Jan 1, 2010)

There probably was no mother there, media always makes things up to spice up the story.

Fact of the matter is there is NOTHING they could do......
Aggravate the python so it regurgitates a dead wallaby in their back yard?
Then the distraught mother has to sit by her dead baby wondering what to do next.


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## Andie (Jan 1, 2010)

It is kind of funny how these types of thread are always going to go around in circles and that people express contradictory logic within the same post. 



Firstly, my emotional opinion. I don't think the family should be judged at all. We do not know what they were feeling. It could have been the worst thing that they have ever seen. I feel very sorry for them being slammed all over the internet. 

And just to correct something that has been annoying me... CALLOUS means showing or having an insensitive and cruel disregard for others. There is nothing to demonstrate that the people were insensitive or cruel especially when you consider that the original news article quoted them as being distressed to see this joey that they had handfed being eaten. I would say that they WERE sensitive to the situation and are therefore not callous at all. And they are not cruel either. They did not INVITE the snake into their yard. If it had happened in the middle of the bush no one would care... 

I also think that the opinion that a predator should always be allowed to eat prey is misplaced. I personally have saved an animal from a predator. My pet mouse from my cat's mouth. But my cat is very well fed and did not need to eat mice and indonesian geckos etc. And before you all ask, how would I feel if my cat was the one being eaten not the joey, the answer is that it would never happen because my cats NEVER leave the doors of my house for this exact reason.



But take emotion out of it for a moment and look at it logically. There was very little they could do. If the joey had been alive (which they say it wasn't) their choice was limited. Kill the snake to save the joey. Either way something dies. Lose lose situation. To believe it othewise is to place more value on the life of the cute fluffy joey than the snake.

Such heirarchy of the value of life is contrary to the opinions already expressed in this thread that imply that all things should be treated well and with respect (ie buying humanely grown meat).

Therefore the argument is null and void and we can all go back to talking about our pretty pets!

I remember years ago there was a documentary made following the 1st year of a joeys life and the subject was killed by a dingo. The public outcry was incredible and the filmmakers were totally slammed for not intervening. But people don't think twice about the lions eating zebras and we marvel at the cruelty of life on the plains. Double standard much?


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## jessieJEALOUSY (Jan 1, 2010)

In one of the articles that i read, the mum or whichever stated that she did try, that they were armed with brooms and such, but upon realises that the joey was ALREADY dead they left nature to take its course.
Maybe i mis-read it, but if i knew the joey had already been killed i would have been fascinated by the situations.


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## cris (Jan 1, 2010)

Could always just have blasted all of them and chucked them on the barby. That way none of the critters would have to suffer the horrors of nature any longer. Snakes are such horrible, evil creatures of the devil, we should kill them all so that no more of their prey gets killled or distressed.

At the end of the day I really think the blame in this case goes to the mother, what sort of parent lets their joey wander in front of scrubbies? She probably didnt want the joey and only kicked the snake so it diodnt look sus.


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## BrownHash (Jan 1, 2010)

Dipcdame, I think you are right in suggesting that people who are insensitive to some of the going ons in nature are callous, but I don't always think that it is necessarily a negative thing.


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## Dipcdame (Jan 1, 2010)

naledge said:


> I agree with Dipcdame about 80-90%
> It would have been hell to watch, and if I had a chance to get in between the snake and wallaby before the snake struck I would. But as others have said, snakes have to eat, so I wouldn't have intervened after the snake's already bitten the wallaby, I'd just feel like crap for the next few days.
> 
> Most people on here are incredibly biased - reptiles above all others.
> I love all animals, and seeing any in pain or suffering, including rats and mice makes me feel like a prick.



THANK YOU naledge............... at last, SOMEONE with an ounce of compassion!

And for you rinformation Tahnee, NO, I don't, and WON'T watch docos where animals kill, whether for their own survival or not................ and THATS why I wouldn't own a snake when live fed was the norm............................. as I said, I TAKE NO JOY IN WATCHING ANY ANIMAL OR HUMAN SUFFER FOR ANY REASON.

Oh, and Chris, I suggest that before posting any more on the forum, you grow up a bit. I just read your last post. Bit childish.


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

So you're saying that anyone who watches an animal die, either on a docco or not is a callous person, because that's what it's begining to sound like.

I love animals as much as the next person... though in this case there was nothing that could be done for the poor joey. It would have been a very horrible encounter for all involved but I do not think that these people deserve to be called names for watching something that is perfectly natural.


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## Dipcdame (Jan 1, 2010)

TahneeMaree said:


> So you're saying that anyone who watches an animal die, either on a docco or not is a callous person, because that's what it's begining to sound like.
> 
> I love animals as much as the next person... though in this case there was nothing that could be done for the poor joey. It would have been a very horrible encounter for all involved but I do not think that these people deserve to be called names for watching something that is perfectly natural.



I would call myself far worse under those circumstances because I would have gone against all my instintcs and principles.

Makes it no better than standing around to watch bad car accidents to see how much someone had been hurt.


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## baxtor (Jan 1, 2010)

dipcdame indeed


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## Jessica_lee (Jan 1, 2010)

But you are not getting the point - if wild predators already miss so many prey, imagine the decline in animal populations if people like yourselves went messing around with nature.
Yes baby wallaby dies, but mum snake might have a nice big clutch that year, most of which will be eaten by birds etc. And im not sure how big the snakes you keep are but I know i would have no way in hell getting my TAME pythons from their meals let a lone a four metre scrubby - and read the article they were mortified. 

Watch the lion king.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

This has got to be a wind up, she is not even making valid arguments


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

Geckoman123 said:


> This has got to be a wind up, she is not even making valid arguments



It's just a name calling thread, pretty much saying that anyone who has seen/watched an animal being eaten by another animal dead/alive on a docco/in person is callous.


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## antaresia_boy (Jan 1, 2010)

> But Mrs Barton-Ilic defended the actions of her family, saying the snake had half the wallaby in its mouth by the time they noticed the incident.



What _exactly_ could they have done?
I don't know what I would have done if I had seen the beginning, I would have had trouble seeing the mother in distress. But there was nothing they could do if the wallaby was already dead, which it obviously was if it was half swallowed.


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## mouse_has_faith (Jan 1, 2010)

> Point 5 - I am not stupid enough to know this doens't happen in the wild, anyone who thought that, I WOULD call stupid, it's a logical reality, but for the family to stand by and do nothing and still stand and watch, is a CALLOUS act.


This same woman, at the end of the first article, said she feared for her children's safety. Whether or not her fear is legitimate, she believes that the snake was capable of inflicting serious harm. So, since when is a dead wallaby worth endangering a human life?


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

It's just one of those things that happen in life, unfortunately. One can't help but feel upset by it though. That's just the way we're wired so please don't pan out on DipC. Even those of you who are asking her whether she owns a snake or eats meat etc would surely feel even a tiny sense of discomfort at witnessing a 'difficult' situation such as this. 

Unless you have no conscience of course...

Hmmm... Might just leave it there.


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## mouse_has_faith (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette, I think you put it best.


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## Rickdejong (Jan 1, 2010)

ssssnakeman said:


> Do you eat or buy meat?



lol was thinking that


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## PhilK (Jan 1, 2010)

This is ridiculous....

It is not a callous act, it is FASCINATING act of nature. I definitely would have watched, and probably taken photos too.. just the same as I take pleasure from watching a spider wrap up a fly in its web, or my goannas taking down live roaches... fascinating parts of nature that I am lucky enough to see!

I would not interfere with a snake eating a meal, ever. That's life. That snake has to eat, so why do you think its OK to take away his food? How long would a wallaby joey last in the coils of a scrub python? A very short time, meaning it would be dead if you saved it anyway...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, yes, but sometimes they are just ridiculous opinions


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## Rickdejong (Jan 1, 2010)

DA_GRIZ said:


>



.....gotta loe that


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

PhilK said:


> This is ridiculous....
> 
> It is not a callous act, it is FASCINATING act of nature. I definitely would have watched, and probably taken photos too.. just the same as I take pleasure from watching a spider wrap up a fly in its web, or my goannas taking down live roaches... fascinating parts of nature that I am lucky enough to see!
> 
> ...



Why waste your time saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion when you're just going to turn around and tell them their opinions are "just ridiculous"?
Why not just get straight to the point by saying that you think that what other people think is *stupid* because really, that's what you're trying to convey, right?


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## PhilK (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Why bother saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinion when you're just going to tell them their opinions are "just ridiculous"


It wasn't meant to be serious.. notice the wink face? 

DipC I'd like you to explain this little bit: you said you feel compassion for all animals equally.. So why are you on the wallaby's side? Where's the compassion for the snake?

I understand you are entitled to your opinion but surely you can see the cold hard facts. The snake MUST eat to survive.. how is a snake starving to death any better than a wallaby dying? Who are you to decide the snake isn't allowed to eat?

I love all animals too, its why I'm becoming a vet, but I know what the food chain is and how it works.. you really can't get past it.

You feed live crickets to your lizards, remember.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jan 1, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> How can you own a snake and have that attitude about a wild one getting some grub?
> and besides they havent learnt how to use the hungry jacks drive thru yet


 
Lol! You're incorrigible, but hilarious!

Circle of life. Risk to whomever was watching to interfere would be high, not to mention the snake or the wallaby. 

Interesting thread to be sure.


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

PhilK said:


> It wasn't meant to be serious.. notice the wink face?
> 
> DipC I'd like you to explain this little bit: you said you feel compassion for all animals equally.. So why are you on the wallaby's side? Where's the compassion for the snake?
> 
> ...



Being a good vet will also require that you have compassion. In your career as a vet there will be *many* a situation where people are going to be upset because their beloved pets have become ill or have passed away from "natural causes" and I very much doubt you will have ANY patients left if you tell them that their pets have died because of "Nature" and that they should just get over it. 
Granted, you are spot on about nature just doing it's thing but people have every right to feel uneasy about things like this as they ARE distressing in the human world. Like I said previously, people are wired to feel these emotions. You don't have any place telling someone how to feel. 

Just a lesson in understanding human nature, and that nothing is ever as simple as you think it is. I notice this is a VERY common trait in males IN GENERAL. Men seem to always see things in black and white and not the shades of grey. Guess you can't be blamed as it is in your genetic make-up.


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## Lonewolf (Jan 1, 2010)

if anything your CALLOUS one wonting that poor lil joey to suffer just for the sake of your feelings
you ask me thats prity selfish


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## cosmicwolf4 (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> It's just one of those things that happen in life, unfortunately. One can't help but feel upset by it though. That's just the way we're wired so please don't pan out on DipC. Even those of you who are asking her whether she owns a snake or eats meat etc would surely feel even a tiny sense of discomfort at witnessing a 'difficult' situation such as this.
> 
> Unless you have no conscience of course...
> 
> Hmmm... Might just leave it there.


 
I agree with all you say. I am one of those people who can't watch docos when animals are suffering, ie; They set up docos where it's obvious that the victim has been put there just to capture on film. 

I see normal hunt and prey behaviour as part of the circle of life. Animals are created as predator and prey, the have to hunt to survive.

Now having said all that, I agree with DipC, I couldn't stand and watch it, nor could I film it. I find it personally distressing to watch a mother try to save her baby, the fact that the baby was already dead is irrelevant to the mother.
I realise the snake was simply doing what he does and accept that. My personal choice is NOT to watch it. 
I don't believe that DipC should be treated like a leper for her beliefs. She is stating her feelings, just as each of us have the choice to do. She doesn't deserve some of the comments left by thoughtless and nasty people here. Constructive critisism works better than flaming, perhaps an explanation of why we feel as we do, rather than shooting someone down for stating a belief.


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

stating feelings and calling people callous for enjoying watching it where there it has been stated that the family in fact were upset about it, are two different things. I saw nowhere in the articles that is said they "enjoyed" watching it. So I do not believe they deserve to be called callous. They took pics... so what, we don't call names of forum members who have pics of their snakes feeding.


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## cris (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Just a lesson in understanding human nature, and that nothing is ever as simple as you think it is. I notice this is a VERY common trait in males IN GENERAL. Men seem to always see things in black and white and not the shades of grey. Guess you can't be blamed as it is in your genetic make-up.



Its really very clear cut, snakes eat animals, some are even cute and furry much like the animals humans eat. Im sorry for being just a dumb male and thinking logically rather than running on emotion without any common sense or grasp on reality.


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## garycahill (Jan 1, 2010)

Was the mother really there?
Pic or it didn't happen!
After all, there are multiple pics of the joey getting eaten & none of the mother trying to save it.
Seems a little odd to me, some might even say media sensationalism.
If you are stupid enough to get between an alleged 4m scrubby & a joey, I wish you all the best.
Hope your health insurance is paid up.


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

cris said:


> Its really very clear cut, snakes eat animals, some are even cute and furry much like the animals humans eat. Im sorry for being just a dumb male and thinking logically rather than running on emotion without any common sense or grasp on reality.



Ah. Forgive my ignorance and _please_ don't be sorry. *I'm* sorry that you have to put up with emotional people. Must be difficult for you to live amongst those who are clearly not as highly evolved as yourself, who are evidently mentally deficient and incapable of having any common sense and any sense of reality because of their emotions. They, along with myself could really learn a lesson or two from your good self. Kudos. 

I'll make a note to vote for you when they announce the nominations for Australians of the year for Australia day.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Ah. Forgive my ignorance and _please_ don't be sorry. *I'm* sorry that you have to put up with emotional people. Must be difficult for you to live amongst those who are clearly not as highly evolved as yourself, who are evidently mentally deficient and incapable of having any common sense and any sense of reality because of their emotions. They, along with myself could really learn a lesson or two from your good self. Kudos.
> 
> I'll make a note to vote for you when they announce the nominations for Australians of the year on Australia day.


how the hell did this turn from saving the fluffy wallaby from the evil snake to a battle of the sexes?


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Nothing to do with battle of the sexes young man. It's to do with respect. That transcends sexes. Just so happens that those on the "black and white" side are male. 

Any females care to contribute to the black and white team? :lol:



Geckoman123 said:


> FFS how the hell did this turn from saving the fluffy wallaby from the evil snake to a battle of the sexes?


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

Young man?
Look lady i dont know what world you come from but on mine snakes eat fluffy animals, and stupidity is shared between sexes evenly, except sometimes someone gets a little extra and we end up with post s like yours


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Nothing to do with battle of the sexes young man. It's to do with respect. That transcends sexes. Just so happens that those on the "black and white" side are male.
> 
> Any females care to contribute to the black and white team? :lol:



pfft open your eyes hun

and you were the one to start the gender issue so stay off the high horse

Have some respect for people in general and do not slander them based on stereo types and generalisations


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Well DUH! Of course snakes eat fluffy animals. It is a scientific fact. That's all they know and I don't expect them to turn to vegetarianism anytime soon. 

Be that as it may, this is NOT a reason to tell someone that they're stupid because they feel a certain way. To me that is just discrimination. It's like saying someone is less of a human being because they don't think the same way as you. I don't care where you come from but to me that is plain rudeness and where I come from, that is NOT acceptable.

Call me stupid however much you want - it only makes you look like an a*hole, so the jokes on you buddy


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## dpeica (Jan 1, 2010)

Do you people realise you're fighting over a dead wallaby? Idiots.


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Uh... how about you open YOUR eyes and see that the disrespect came from others towards someone who was merely expressing an opinion. 

There would be an absolute uproar and you would be stomping your feet in disgust and carrying on like a pork chop if anyone dared to pan you out for expressing an opinion. 

BTW I did mention that the observation I made was a GENERALISATION. I never said that the observation was hardcore fact. 





TahneeMaree said:


> pfft open your eyes hun
> 
> and you were the one to start the gender issue so stay of the high horse
> 
> Have some respect for people in general and do not slander them based on stereo types and generalisations


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

It was supposed to be about the peoples reaction to the event...


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Someone said that about plastic boxes.



dpeica said:


> Do you people realise you're fighting over a dead wallaby? Idiots.


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

The thread was started with disrespect towards the people involved (the family who took the pictures)


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## garycahill (Jan 1, 2010)

Another pic of the same thing that has been kicking around forever.


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## PhilK (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> ... I very much doubt you will have ANY patients left if you tell them that their pets have died because of "Nature" and that they should just get over it.


That is completely 100% different to this issue. How can you compare peoples loving pets of 15 years passing on to witnessing two wild creatures interacting? These people saw a snake eating a wallaby.. akin to seeing a spider eat a fly or an eagle take a rabbit. That is nothing like putting down your dog of 15 years..



> Just a lesson in understanding human nature, and that nothing is ever as simple as you think it is. I notice this is a VERY common trait in males IN GENERAL. Men seem to always see things in black and white and not the shades of grey. Guess you can't be blamed as it is in your genetic make-up.


Thanks for the life lesson, but human nature is easy enough to understand without you. Not sure why you're bringing a battle of the sexes aspect in haha but we'll leave that there.

Remember, everybody else's opinion is just as valued as yours or DipC's so you'd better respect them too :lol:


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

wow gary, whoever took that pic is so callous, just standing there taking picks while a kangaroo (by the looks of it) is about to get eaten


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

Thats is cool gary
I want one to guard my moat!


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## garycahill (Jan 1, 2010)

The downside to it guarding your moat Gex is that it only takes fluffy animals!


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## cris (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Ah. Forgive my ignorance and _please_ don't be sorry. *I'm* sorry that you have to put up with emotional people. Must be difficult for you to live amongst those who are clearly not as highly evolved as yourself, who are evidently mentally deficient and incapable of having any common sense and any sense of reality because of their emotions. They, along with myself could really learn a lesson or two from your good self. Kudos.
> 
> I'll make a note to vote for you when they announce the nominations for Australians of the year for Australia day.



TY all humans are emotional, its not a bad thing. If you want to live in a pretend fairy land where nothing dies and everything is happy and friendly, you will need to stay sheltered from nature. To think its wrong for an animal to hunt and eat isnt natural especially for an omnivourus animal like a human. Its about a mature as thinking food magically appears on the supermarket shelves without anyone growing/making it and putting it there.

If you live a house or eat food you are responsible for killing heaps of animals, having an out of sight out of mind attitude doesnt really hold much weight IMO. Each to their own, but for someone who cant understand nature to imply they were stupid for not killing the snake is a bit extreme IMO.


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Oy veh 



PhilK said:


> That is completely 100% different to this issue. How can you compare peoples loving pets of 15 years passing on to witnessing two wild creatures interacting? These people saw a snake eating a wallaby.. akin to seeing a spider eat a fly or an eagle take a rabbit. That is nothing like putting down your dog of 15 years..
> 
> 
> Thanks for the life lesson, but human nature is easy enough to understand without you. Not sure why you're bringing a battle of the sexes aspect in haha but we'll leave that there.
> ...


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Word



cris said:


> TY all humans are emotional, its not a bad thing. If you want to live in a pretend fairy land where nothing dies and everything is happy and friendly, you will need to stay sheltered from nature. To think its wrong for an animal to hunt and eat isnt natural especially for an omnivourus animal like a human. Its about a mature as thinking food magically appears on the supermarket shelves without anyone growing/making it and putting it there.
> 
> If you live a house or eat food you are responsible for killing heaps of animals, having an out of sight out of mind attitude doesnt really hold much weight IMO. Each to their own, but for someone who cant understand nature to imply they were stupid for not killing the snake is a bit extreme IMO.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

garycahill said:


> The downside to it guarding your moat Gex is that it only takes fluffy animals!


Really? :cry: oh well at least it will keep the rabbits down


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## Andie (Jan 1, 2010)

As I already posted, I think that it IS an issue that it can be helpful to look at without emotion ie logically. And I am a girl so it is not a gender thing.

Nature (as an entire ecosystem) does not have emotion. It is a series of living and non-living things interacting. In this case two living things interacted and resulted in one being eaten. The kangaroo mother may appear emtional to us (who have emotions) but she was just doing what comes naturally. There are numerous stories of human parents acting purely on instinct when their children are in danger. Emotion does not enter into it until they realise afterwards and shock sets in.

It is us humans who superimpose our emotions onto the situation. We feel horrible for the poor baby that died or the apparently frantic mother. Or we feel empathy for the snake who was probably very hungry.

Is this a bad thing? Not really because it is these same emotions that compel us to conservation and rescuing abused pets or injured wildlife.

It is when these varying degrees of emotion (or lack of) begin to clash with each other that the problems arise, as are happening here. Because we all (myself included!) are sure that we are right.

Can I suggest that the flaming stop from all sides and we just realise that people are affected by things differently. I have a very strong consitution (bring on Man vs Wild!) but I realise and accept that others do not and that is all there is to it. You don't have to watch a violent nature doco. I like them because you learn a lot but I won't make you watch one with me! And I don't think less of someone who can't or won't watch it.

The OP has already said that she did not know all of the situation when she first posted.

Can what has become a mean and rather pointless this thread be laid to rest now?


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## cosmicwolf4 (Jan 1, 2010)

I am emotional and I find it upsetting to see people arguing and name calling on a site that's meant to be here to help and advise.
I wonder if you who are being so critical would be friends in real time if you didn't know that the person you are arguing with was the person you were speaking to. 
Each one of you are probably really nice, kind people and yet when you get on here, you turn into hellions.
I have so much respect for many of you here and don't like to see what you do to each other. 
How about using explanations and courtesy, instead of flaming and name calling when there is a post you don't like?


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## PhilK (Jan 1, 2010)

Ninjaette said:


> Oh blah blah blah. No point in trying to get through to people who don't give a flying about differing opinions.


You are the knight in shining armour saying we are all wrong for not respecting people with differing opinions.. but you are showing absolutely no respect for any of OUR opinions, which differ from yours. 

You have also resorted to very immature tactics, which is a pity because there is nothing like a good healthy debate when people keep it civil (which seldom happens on this site)


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

Andie and cosmicwolf4, thank goodness for people like you! You guys PROVE that there are ways of expressing one's opinion without being nasty about it, which I admit I am guilty of at times, though I do subscribe to the "fight fire with fire" philosophy and don't realise that sometimes it's not the best way to go about it. I just can't stand by and watch while a good, kind hearted person is being attacked. It, unfortunately, happens more on this site than not, but hopefully that will change in the future.

Thanks again so much to the two of you. You've just made my night


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## TahneeMaree (Jan 1, 2010)

cosmicwolf4 said:


> I am emotional and I find it upsetting to see people arguing and name calling on a site that's meant to be here to help and advise.
> I wonder if you who are being so critical would be friends in real time if you didn't know that the person you are arguing with was the person you were speaking to.
> Each one of you are probably really nice, kind people and yet when you get on here, you turn into hellions.
> I have so much respect for many of you here and don't like to see what you do to each other.
> How about using explanations and courtesy, instead of flaming and name calling when there is a post you don't like?





Andie said:


> As I already posted, I think that it IS an issue that it can be helpful to look at without emotion ie logically. And I am a girl so it is not a gender thing.
> 
> Nature (as an entire ecosystem) does not have emotion. It is a series of living and non-living things interacting. In this case two living things interacted and resulted in one being eaten. The kangaroo mother may appear emtional to us (who have emotions) but she was just doing what comes naturally. There are numerous stories of human parents acting purely on instinct when their children are in danger. Emotion does not enter into it until they realise afterwards and shock sets in.
> 
> ...




I don't believe this thread should have even been started, starting a thread with namecalling leaves the flood gates wide open for heated discussion. 

I also would not force anyone to watch what they did not want to watch. I personally believe that it is natures way, though tragic as the situation may have been I do not believe that people who can stomach to watch nature take its course should be slandered as "callous".


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## Ninjaette (Jan 1, 2010)

No, I am trying to make people realise that it's not right to ostricise someone for expressing an opinion. Your opinion is in the majority and therefore you're not the one under attack. There's no disrespect from me whatsoever. What there is, however, is an expression of disappointment in what appears to be a real "bully" mentality. I just find it astounding that people who appear to be reasonably intelligent can suddenly turn on someone in an instant which is what I've observed here. In real life, this just wouldn't happen.



PhilK said:


> You are the knight in shining armour saying we are all wrong for not respecting people with differing opinions.. but you are showing absolutely no respect for any of OUR opinions, which differ from yours.
> 
> You have also resorted to very immature tactics, which is a pity because there is nothing like a good healthy debate when people keep it civil (which seldom happens on this site)


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## FAY (Jan 1, 2010)

We can all agree to disagree......


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