# Some ppl have no idea!



## Pyror (Jun 28, 2004)

Yesterday i picked up my two new bredli's from a breeder with whom we had arranged to meet at the reptile barn in St Marys, Sydney (he doesn't like strangers coming around to his house, which is understandable these days!).

Anyways, we were at his car, choosing our pythons (which brings a whole new meaning to dealing from the back of a car in a car park doesn't it? :wink: ), and i had to return to my own car to grab a container. I had one of the gorgeous bredli's wrapped around my hand as i went. Along the way, 3 people got out of a car that had just pulled up next to mine, and one of them noticed what i was holding, and came up to me to have a look. She asked a couple of questions, which i was happy to answer. But it's what she said next that brings me here now. She didn't know me from a bar of soap, yet the next words out of her mouth were _*We have a corn snake at home*_. My reply was just Ahh really? and i noticed that her male partner was shooting nasty glances her way. They walked into the store, and i walked back with my container, laughing!

I can't believe how trusting, or in this case stupid, some people can be!


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## hugsta (Jun 28, 2004)

I wonder if she new they are illegal or is just too trusting, I'd never admit to my cornies.....................oops. did i say that outloud. LMAO :wink: 
But obviously the husband/BF knew.


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## moosenoose (Jun 28, 2004)

I think just 'dumb' covers it pretty well! LOL


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## hugsta (Jun 28, 2004)

> I think just 'dumb' covers it pretty well!


Would have to be to be mentioning stuff like that to strangers and to own one while when penalties are so high if you get caught.


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## moosenoose (Jun 28, 2004)

Imagine never being able to keep our huge range of beautiful native snakes....because of what?...a cornsnake!? Gee..that's a tough one!


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## Vat69 (Jun 28, 2004)

What a foolish woman.
I have a better one though. So far I've met two different people, both of whom I had told about my dislike for the keeping of illegal reptiles, go on to brag about their exotic collection. One of them even went into detail about going out into a certain bushland area each year to steal pregnant diamond females and their eggs to sell. Idiots.


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## Nome (Jun 28, 2004)

Vat69 said:


> One of them even went into detail about going out into a certain bushland area each year to steal pregnant diamond females and their eggs to sell. Idiots.



That is so sick, people like this should be reported. I cannot stand people who take from the wild for commercial reasons, this is just so so terrible. :evil: 

It makes me so angry :evil: :evil: ....okay breathe.........


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## Linus (Jun 28, 2004)

Well I don't even see the attraction to something like a corn snake. In my eyes, all the Aussie pythons and colubrids are more attractive...and you can't get fined/go to gaol! 

What would these people be paying for a corn snake??


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## Simon_Archibald (Jun 28, 2004)

Who's dumber though? The person who admits they have a corn snake, or the licenced keeper not taking their number plates / address to the police or NPWS and having them arrested?

Simon Archibald


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## NCHERPS (Jun 28, 2004)

Simon,
I think that is a bit uncalled for, many people don't want to get involved in dobbing people in, especially not having known the individual and colaborated the facts, let's face it you would look pretty silly if you took down all those details etc.. gave them to the Police and NPWS and the woman was just spinning a yarn to try and impress!
Knowing people have the animals and having seen them is first hand evidence, but I don't think anyone is going to be interested in 'Hearsay'.

Neil


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## Gregory (Jun 28, 2004)

You must have had a terrible childhood Simon. Were you bashed up at school all the time? I know you would have been if you went to school where I did.


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## Pyror (Jun 28, 2004)

> Who's dumber though? The person who admits they have a corn snake, or the licenced keeper not taking their number plates / address to the police or NPWS and having them arrested?



Valid point Simon. In retrospect, i regretted that i hadn't done just that, and under different circumstances i think that i would have. However, given the purpose that i was there for, and trying to remember all the questions that i had intended on asking before handing over my hard earned dollars, i guess it must have slipped my mind, or had joined the que behind other things that i felt deserved precedence.


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## Simon_Archibald (Jun 28, 2004)

Neil,
My opinion was based on the idea that someone says "I was told they have a corn snake" and does nothing about it. And if nobody wants to get involved in *doing* anything about things, don't complain in the first place.

I have dobbed in a keeper to NSW NPWS before - he was trying to find a breeder of a particular species who was willing to say on record he had sold some hatchies to the guy. What had actually happened is he caught these animals from the wild and wanted them "validated" on licence.

If I knew the details and was the person there, rest assured that I would have rang NPWS as soon as I got home. They have always seemed interested to know in the past. Otherwise if people aren't going to do anything about it, other than complain, don't bother complaining at all.

Simon Archibald


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## Gregory (Jun 28, 2004)

Ah Ben, hasn't anyone warned you about the Reptile Barn yet?


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## craig23 (Jun 28, 2004)

mmm, of cause they probably should not get away with it. BUT i would have done the same thing. Cant say I would have put someone in gaol or a massive fine for keeping a small snake. Before the amnisty in NSW I was an "illegal" snake keeper as well. Like alot of us. There are plenty drug trafficers, rapists, violent and abusive people that should be in gaol..... not a corn snake keeper. Most people that keep the odd little exotic like this probably have no idea how illegal it is.....

Maybe talking to them and telling them about the amnisty and the legal ramifications of keeping the corn snake might have been more suitable. Then maybe calling the authorities and just let them know what happend and where it happend.

craig


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## Simon_Archibald (Jun 28, 2004)

Thanks Pryor,
Good to see that the person in the actual circumstance can understand reason. Hope the bredli are going well for you.

Simon Archibald


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## Simon_Archibald (Jun 28, 2004)

Craig,
True that many people commit crimes that have much more effect on people than keeping exotics. But, I just can't understand people who know this is going on, complaining that they hate it happening, but do nothing to stop it. That's beyond me.

Simon Archibald


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## Gregory (Jun 28, 2004)

Farkurnell would have said something along the lines of:
"Saint Simon" the do-gooder but seeing as how I am not him anymore. I'll say nothing.


:wink:


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## Pyror (Jun 28, 2004)

> Ah Ben, hasn't anyone warned you about the Reptile Barn yet?



Warned of what Greg?


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## Pyror (Jun 28, 2004)

that their prices are exceedingly high? -that i knew the first time i stepped foot in the store..


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## craig23 (Jun 28, 2004)

Just one other thing, you have the "illegal, pre licencing reptile keepers" to thank for a licencing system at all in NSW.

Craig


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 28, 2004)

I agree 100% with Simon, and Greg I think Farkurnell is trying to break out!


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## Fuscus (Jun 28, 2004)

I agree with Simon.


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## kevyn (Jun 28, 2004)

I find it unreal that people there are willing to risk a huge fine and a jail term for a snake that here costs less than $70. If you're going to risk it, get an albino Retic or something cool.


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

kevyn said:


> I find it unreal that people there are willing to risk a huge fine and a jail term for a snake that here costs less than $70. If you're going to risk it, get an albino Retic or something cool.



It dosen't matter what the species, it's still cruel considering what happens to the ones that are imported, most of them suffer serverly and end up dying because they get crammed into little tubes and what not with no air. International species aren't banned because they cost too much, it's because of the suffering which the animal under go's, and also the risk of a pest species outbreak in our own beautiful country. If you cannot restrain yourself from commiting such a crime than you're extremely sad, no matter how amazing the species you're confronted with. Absolutely no species is worth the risk.


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## kevyn (Jun 28, 2004)

I know, I was kidding.  [/url]


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

kevyn said:


> I know, I was kidding.  [/url]



You should be a comedian.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2004)

Maybe Matty you should do more research on the reasons for banning exotics reptiles, there are more reasons then than you have stated above and a HELL of a lot more important reasons


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Maybe Matty you should do more research on the reasons for banning exotics reptiles, there are more reasons then than you have stated above and a HELL of a lot more important reasons



I know that. Are you implying that my two reasons do not contribute at all though, to the banning of imported reptiles? Of course there are more reasons.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2004)

Yes I am saying that


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Yes I am saying that



Well if it costs nothing to send them here, the animals are transported in complete comfort AND people are allowed to let them go whenever they feel like it without causing any harm at all. . .why aren't they here?


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2004)

Look in threads of this site, and the other 30 or so Australian reptile forums and read them there is a hell of a lot more to worry about then that crap.


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Look in threads of this site, and the other 30 or so Australian reptile forums and read them there is a hell of a lot more to worry about then that crap.



Oh so now you're saying that they just aren't that "important"...before you were saying that they mean absolutely nothing...well quite frankly i think you're extremely cold hearted if you honestly believe that animals suffocating and being tortured isn't an issue. Forget all the government crap and what not, the issue is still the animals.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2004)

Also what I mean mate, is that if exotics were imported legally strict controls would be put on the transport for the health and safety of animals. So that is not really a valid reason


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Also what I mean mate, is that if exotics were imported legally strict controls would be put on the transport for the health and safety of animals. So that is not really a valid reason



. . .because the animals health and safty is an issue, which you currently said was clearly not an issue.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2004)

Because that would be regulated, to ensure that they are safe and healthy,, so that IMO is not an issue againts having exotics


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## NCHERPS (Jun 28, 2004)

Matty 2004,
I believe all Baritji is trying to say that on that one point you mentioned it wouldn't be a concern due to strict packing and freighting of the animals.
Captive bred and wild caught animals have for years been coming into Europe and America perfectly legally and with very little in the way of death's, however some countries that ship wild caught, such as Africa have a reputation for shipping animals in bad cramped conditions and their wildlife licensing agencies turn a blind eye. That wouldn't happen here, as if they did allow Imports into Australia I am sure they would have to be captive bred and have come from countries such as the US and Europe who have stricter regulations when it comes to shipping.
Of course there are still the smugglers that try to get animals through in tight cramped little containers, but it is hard to stop this illegal activity completely.

Neil


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## kevyn (Jun 28, 2004)

Shipping reptiles isn't an issue. If you go through a reputable source, animals are shipped quite well and arrive very alive. I am well versed on the North American shipping regulations, they are quite strict and very specific. They ensure the animals saftey.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 28, 2004)

Hey Baritji, if Matty's reasons are no correct then maybe you can tell us what is, I for one don't know why they are not allowed.


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## Matty_2004 (Jun 28, 2004)

dobermanmick said:


> dont worry Matty 2004 bartiji thinks he knows everything



Don't need to be told that champ :wink:


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## Adam (Jun 28, 2004)

GET OVER IT GUYS!!!!!!!!!! Corn snakes are bloody well bred over here!!!! I know a friend of a friend (covers his own ass) who breeds them. Geez one guy I know caught a baby Albino Corn at MacQuarie Fields train station. They are almost a native species now in the Georges River Basin in Sydney. I agree with kevyn if ya gonna risk it do it for someting good!!!!LOL The corns cost about $300 here kev. By the way I'll take one of those retics when they breed, NOW THAT's WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanna RETIC. ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Australia Zoo has plenty, I only want one!!!!!!!  :twisted: :twisted:


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## africancichlidau (Jun 28, 2004)

Play nicely now boys and girls


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## Adam (Jun 28, 2004)

Sorry afrofishman....... They need to grow up a bit. Geez ALL snakes are nice and personally I think we should be allowed to keep exotics, but it would have to be kept under VERY strict rules and guidelines even as far as courses before you get one and mandatory microchipping.


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## snakehunter (Jun 29, 2004)

Matty, I think that what Baritji is saying is that exotics arent illegal in Australia simply because of how they are smuggled in, it is because of the potential impacts they could have on our native ecosystems if they were to escape or be released.


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## Adam (Jun 29, 2004)

I personally think that is way off the mark but anyway we can't have 'em but why dob in thew people that do?????Honestly have we seen any major dramas because of foriegn snakes???? The answer is a big fat NO!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ramsayi (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm with you Ad,why dob them in?
I dont give a hoot what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me or my family personaly.Lag people in.What this joint coming to?Thats just plain un Australian.
If the authorities were serious about it they would visit everyone licensed to keep herps for a start.I do realise however that not everyone who keeps exotics is licensed but likeI said "if they were serious". 
Cant stand self rightious people meself...


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## Adam (Jun 29, 2004)

Thats it Ramsayi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

Simon's just going off on one of his little crusades again. Billy Graham would be proud.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 29, 2004)

What makes one "opinion" more correct than the other?? Everyone is talking as if they have "ALL" the answers and it is interesting to observe that the people who are advocates of keeping exotics illegally were the first and as far as I can tell the only people to get "down and dirty" in this thread, it shows no self control which does not give and credibility to your opinion.

The law is the law and we are required to obey it, if you break it, then you get penalised, you know the old saying, "if you can't do the time, then don't do the crime".

What kind of society would it be if everyone lived however they wanted. Scary thought.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2004)

SnakeWrangler said:


> you know the old saying, "if you can't do the time, then don't do the crime".



I personally prefer "dont write cheques your ass cant cash"


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

SnakeWrangler said:


> The law is the law and we are required to obey it, if you break it, then you get penalised, you know the old saying, "if you can't do the time, then don't do the crime."



Exactly I couldn't agree more. 
What I don't agree on though, is the high and mighty notion that because you 'hear' that someone has a corn snake you run and tell the authorities about it. What would be gained? Nothing. The authorities wouldn't be able to act anyway, just on the say so of one person and on the conversation in a carpark. People just need to get off the moral high horse and look reality in the face.



Greg.


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## Fuscus (Jun 29, 2004)

Well them - don't tell me that you have exotics because I *WILL* tell the law. I beleive it is a correct law. Not only are you adding another potentially invasive animal into Australias biosphere but you are encouraging smuggling, and all the cruelty inherent in that system.


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## earthmother (Jun 29, 2004)

I would dob without a 2nd thought.

It's not just about the surface level of the Reptile - care or trade Matty - it's about our environment.

Type in "Red Eared Sliders" in Australian pages on Google. We don't need anymore 'pests'.

Gregory - Farken IS still trying to break through - and you are strong and full of self control and don't allow him to channel. Good onyah!


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## Pinkie (Jun 29, 2004)

> I think that what Baritji is saying is that exotics arent illegal in Australia simply because of how they are smuggled in, it is because of the potential impacts they could have on our native ecosystems if they were to escape or be released.





> I personally think that is way off the mark



Then you obviously know nothing about ecology :roll: Look at what you have just stated...



> GET OVER IT GUYS!!!!!!!!!! Corn snakes are bloody well bred over here!!!! I know a friend of a friend (covers his own ass) who breeds them. Geez one guy I know caught a baby Albino Corn at MacQuarie Fields train station. They are almost a native species now in the Georges River Basin in Sydney.



Almost native?? Because of all the escapee captive illegals. You are just contradicting yourself mate.
Do you not think that this will severely impact on our NATIVE reptile populations, moreover all the OTHER native animals linking this ecosystem?? :roll:


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

Fuscus said:


> Well them - don't tell me that you have exotics because I *WILL* tell the law.




He That Is Without Sin Among You, Let Him First Cast a Stone.



I'm trying my best Em but Fark wants out, his power is too strong. I'm weakening.


Gregory.


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## Fuscus (Jun 29, 2004)

I have lots of rocks ready for chucking !
And it is not a question of sin, it is a question of doing whats right!
QLD has declared _Elaphe guttata_ a class one pest and have established a watch for them.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...corn_snake.pdf+corn+snake+Australia&amp;hl=en


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## earthmother (Jun 29, 2004)

Good site Fuscusy! Now that's it in a nutshell. 

If I dob somebody in I expect the same from others. I would expect to be checked out after a big dob.

The Nation of dobbers keep each other straight. 

Greg,  Don't listen to those voices in your head saying - - - -'come to the dark side'. Fight it!


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

earthmother said:


> The Nation of dobbers keep each other straight.




That's not what this nation is all about Em. We are not a nation of dobbers. If a SERIOUS crime had been commited, then yes, you need to come forward, but to dob someone in because you heard they have a Corn snake? or a Red Ear Slider?? No way.

In my opinion it's a minor offence, just like walking across the road against the 'Don't Walk' signal or any other minor infraction of society's rules that the majority of people break daily, and don't tell me you or any of the other Moral Crusaders here don't break any because, sometime, somewhere and at some stage through our lives we all do. 


Gregory.
(Settle down Fark, you'll get your turn) :twisted:


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## Fuscus (Jun 29, 2004)

Gregory said:


> .. to dob someone in because you heard they have a Corn snake? or a Red Ear Slider?? ...



I'm sure some one said last century " It's only a couple of rabbits, what possible harm can they do?"


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

Fuscus said:


> I'm sure some one said last century " It's only a couple of rabbits, what possible harm can they do?"




What's that got to do with dobbing someone in cause you heard they have a Corn? Two totally different scenarios.

Keep on track old mate. You'll be right.


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 29, 2004)

Greg, the point is if one or two people are left to keep these exotics then eventually there will be three, four, five, etc... and this is the problem. It has everything to do with the discussion, this is the reason we would dob someone in, because we don't want to see things like this happen.


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

It's too late now.
If exotics were only now being brought into the country illegally then I'd say fine, let's dob everyone in, but it's been going on for many, many decades. It now needs regulation, not dobbing some poor sod in cause he has a bloody Corn, for Christ's sake. That's not gonna solve a thing.


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## Fuscus (Jun 29, 2004)

Gregory said:


> What's that got to do with dobbing someone in cause you heard they have a Corn? Two totally different scenarios.
> 
> Keep on track old mate. You'll be right.



I will explain it very simply for you. Last century people thought that bringing in a few exotic animals will do no harm, now most native animals are very scarce or extinct because they have either been displaced or wiped out by the newcomers. Think of what Australia would be like now without the fox, cat and rabbit ( especially the rabbit, as it allowed the other two to spread).
Now, a hundred years along, you would think we would have learnt the dangers of exotics and most of us have. But some still think that they know better and insist on keeping proscribed exotics dispite the dangers and damage to the enviroment that have been demonstrated again and again. You have already stated that they may be establishing feral populations.
Now if you know of someone that is keeping illeagals you are *AIDING AND ABETTING* not only the keeper but the smuggler as well. If the corn snake establishes itself and wipes out the diamond python then you will carry as much blame as the others, prehaps more because you should know better.
And on a short term view, if the government feels we need more inspections because of exotics then there is a cost to be borne, possibly via general taxation but more likely to be via higher fees for keeping reptiles under the "User pays" system.


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

You don't need to lecture me matey. I understand fully the problem with ferals. I haven't walked around for 42 years with my head up my ....Language?... like some. I'm talking about the do-gooder notion of dobbing people in. It's not done here. Plain and simple.
You can trot out any old rhetoric you like. Where I'm from, it just aint done.


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## hugsta (Jun 29, 2004)

This has been quite an interesting read, two sides, two opinions.
Fuscus, you said


> without the fox, cat and rabbit


personally I would be more worried about the cane toad, I'm not saying the ones you mentioned are any less detrimental to our enviroment, but the can toad, I would think, has a more direct affect on our herps as this is one of their food sources.

And on the topic of dobbing in,
I believe everybody out there, whether to their knowledge or not, knows somebody that has done something illegal. Be that the first time they smoked pot, took that pencil from the RSL club put out for keno players. Petty crimes aren't they, so would you dob in because you found out a work mate/friend of the family etc. smokes a little bit hooch every now and then.
If you do then you have issues. Millions of people do illegal things everyday, some not even realising.
I just think people are forgetting the big picture here in regards to an exotic. If exotics were not here then i think you could justify harsh penalties but they are. Instead of scaring people into hiding their exotic collections they should be doing more to control those that are here.
Exotics will be here for a long time and having an amnesty will not fix the problem. I am against exotics but I have an understanding of why ppl don't want to hand in theit beloved pet just to be killed.


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## Ramsayi (Jun 29, 2004)

What about some poor sucker who knows bugger all about snakes? Buys a corn from the bloke down the pub after being told its legal to have etc etc?
Would the Fred Nile look alikes ride up on their high horses to make sure that the sucker who bought it copped the huge fine and everything else that would come with it?


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## SnakeWrangler (Jun 29, 2004)

Hugsta, the devastating effects that exotics can have on our environment and wildlife are the reasons that people with them should be reported, they don't need regulating, they need to be eradicated, of course this means innocent animals die, but the blame for that lies on the people who had them illegally. You cannot compare the effects of one illegal activity that effects almost always the person commiting the offence with one that effects living creatures that have NO abilitity to protect themselves against it, remember it's our native wildlife that suffers.

Ramsayi, that poor sucker is responsible for his own actions, he should, just as anyone should, make sure what they are doing is not illegal.


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## Fuscus (Jun 29, 2004)

Ramsayi said:


> What about some poor sucker who knows collector of insects all about snakes?


if you know collector of insects all about snakes you shouldn't buy one on a whim. These are the people who are the most likly to dump the snake or let it escape.
For the record, I spent six months studing, getting licences and cages before purchasing my first snake.

Hugsta, 
All the crimes you mention are trivial - keeping exotics threatens the ecosystem.
As for dobbing, greg - Are you saying I shouldn't have dobbed in the person I saw breaking into next doors car?


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## Tommo (Jun 29, 2004)

i agree with fuscus about the person who bought a corn without knowledge of it. a person is responsible to learn about what pet they are getting

i remember in the paper afew months ago about a lady in melbourne who had a exotic permit. around the area that she lived people had dobbed on others, mostly children on having corn snakes. all the people busted all said that some lady sold it to them and told them they where legal. they checked it out and the lady with the exotic permit and found that she had several breeding pairs of corn snakes. this proves that if people dob on others for keeping illegal animals then it will at some point leads to a source of where the animals are comming from.


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## hugsta (Jun 29, 2004)

MY arguement is not that they are trivial, it is that it happens all around us. Unfortunatley exotics are already here and there's nothing we can do to change that. While ever people breed and people buy, you will never stop it. Drugs are illegal yet the government sets up a shooting gallery at the cross, so does this make it right. Of course not.
As I said before I don't agree with exotics as I know of the dangers they can create if they were to get into our enviroment.
I also don't agree with dobbing in anybody that "mentions" they have them.
I once handed in a number plate that I found on the ground to the police. After being questioned for almost 2hrs as to where i got the nunber plate from etc. etc. ,they were virtually trying to blame me for something I had nothing to do with, I vowed never to do something like that agin. I tried to do the right thing and then I was the guilty party.
So you wonder why ppl don't dob in others for petty crimes.
If it was someone steeling the neighbours car, I would call the cops without question as you can see the crime happening.


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## Gregory (Jun 29, 2004)

Fuscus said:


> As for dobbing, greg - Are you saying I shouldn't have dobbed in the person I saw breaking into next doors car?




That's the most ridiculous statement yet. I'm not even gonna qualify it with an answer.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2004)

Man Adam..your the one who needs to get a life and grow up


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## Slateman (Jun 29, 2004)

I had ilegal cornsnake for 5 months my self.
I had no idea about licencing and snake was sold to me by man who come to me in my business and ask me if I would like to buy a snake. I loved the animal becaose snake was so timed and easy to handle. That was my first snake . When I find out about licencing, I did the right thing and aplied for one. Poor corn snake had accidental end when my friend took the snake for drive and did not closed box properly.
I did this 4 year ago, and I do not feel like kriminul. 
And I understand that many people do not like to report this type of activities. Many people do have only one corn snake as pet for they children with out knowing they do something wrong.
I personally would not get involved with out knowing more about it. The man can have the snake legaly. I know few people who do have permit to have them so do not jump to conclusion.


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