# GTP Ballot???



## junglemad (Aug 23, 2005)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1444326.htm

try this out. I have forwarded my name to take one, if they have to be put down i feel it is my civic duty to take a poor GTP or two under my wing.


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## ad (Aug 23, 2005)

Smuggling in Frill Necks? a $250 native lizard - he must be a smart one.


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## Menagerie (Aug 23, 2005)

how did you put your name down to take one?


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## Keef (Aug 23, 2005)

Heres some pics from the bust ...


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## Keef (Aug 23, 2005)

one more


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## Rossagon (Aug 23, 2005)

Here ya go. read some more about it here.

www.customs.gov.au

check out the media room. 

P.S. Only zoos get the option of keeping these animals if seized by Customs and Environment Australia.


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## Possum (Aug 23, 2005)

Some people are just complete $hithead$ :x 

Poor little critters, this is not even there home!


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## playwell (Aug 23, 2005)

He may of gotten caught but the other hundreds of people didn't.

I recently was trying to buy an Adult Male Diamond. I spoke to many people, & I had been offered exotics many times.

They are here, and in great numbers.

I got my Diamond in the end but it would have been easier to get an exotic.

I am only stating a fact, not supporting nor condeming.

I feel sorry for the way they are packed. Cruel


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## Retic (Aug 23, 2005)

Possum, I don't think the animals care much where their home is to be honest 
He didn't do much research before embarking on his smuggling spree, Frillies were a bit of a mistake. Green Iguanas are very common but those GTP's are just beautiful.


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## Possum (Aug 23, 2005)

I agree BOA it is just no thought was put into it and these poor little critters have shoved into cramped containers and brought to a climate they may not like. But yes they are beautiful and I have also been offered some exotics but declined.


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## Retic (Aug 23, 2005)

When an animal is in a heated cage it wouldn't really care what the climate outside is like


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## Herpkid (Aug 23, 2005)

possum said:


> I agree BOA it is just no thought was put into it and these poor little critters have shoved into cramped containers and brought to a climate they may not like. But yes they are beautiful and I have also been offered some exotics but declined.


did you report the people ? i would have also what types of exotics were they ?


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## playwell (Aug 23, 2005)

Why report them? 
So some poor bugger is going to get a massive fine so the government just once again makes more money out of their redundant laws. 

This government only thinks of making money from breaking its "laws", instead of preventing or more realistically introducing a legal system for controlling/monitoring what is already here. 
Meanwhile you still would not have helped prevent the smuggling trade trade at all by dobbing in someone small time.

The main ones I have been offered are red tailed boas and veiled chameleons. Other people have said " I can get you almost anything you want".
I have just left it at that.

Anyone who has a licence would be a fool to risk there collection by harbouring the exotics.

But if you dont have a licence, it is not likley you will get a knock on your door.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2005)

*re GTP*

Probably the GTPS will go to quarantine and then after they have cleared into that great ones collection to provide new blood lines,do you know who it is boys and girls 8) :lol:


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## basketcase (Aug 23, 2005)

nice post playwell. its sad but true.


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## olivehydra (Aug 23, 2005)

*re GTP*



oldfella said:


> Probably the GTPS will go to quarantine and then after they have cleared into that great ones collection to provide new blood lines,do you know who it is boys and girls 8) :lol:



Nope, not the Gosford lineage??? :roll:


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2005)

*re GTP*

Crikey,olive its not gosford that in NSW, NO EXPORT,local pickup onley!! :lol:


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## peterescue (Aug 23, 2005)

I dont know who you mean Oldfella. Who would have quarantine facilities in QLD, Nope, cant think.
Oh! hang on, you dont mean, no way. He wouldn't want to gain from illegal importation. Best to euthanaise them. Besides, might be seen some sort of conflict of interest there. :roll:


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## Reptilia (Aug 24, 2005)

Frillies back into their own country rofl!. He sure didnt do his research. You can tell he was only after 1 thing and lots of it $$$$$. I was wondering with those gtp's, they wouldnt be aloud to breed here in australia under zoo's, would they? What if they were of Papua new guinea locality? Does it matter?.

Yeah... I must admit I've heard alot about exotics in recent times. I've heard of a man recently smuggling in successfully' a pair of slider turtles in his shoes. 1 died, 1 survived, so i hear from a friend :S. Apparently he even took it it to deakin university for show and tell to his class. lol! Thats ambitious!. Anyway I heard that from a close friend (who goes to deakin),but who knows, theirs alot of gossip going round'. 
Anyone heard of this story?


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## basketcase (Aug 24, 2005)

reptilia - theres no need to smuggle sliders in, as there already here in masses.


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## Hickson (Aug 24, 2005)

*re GTP*



oldfella said:


> Probably the GTPS will go to quarantine and then after they have cleared into that great ones collection to provide new blood lines,do you know who it is boys and girls 8) :lol:



If the GTPs are all mutations - like the ones in the photos - then they will probably be euthanased. There is no conservation value in keeping mutations and so zoos would have a hard time justifying their keeping them.



Hix


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## peterescue (Aug 24, 2005)

I cant see the where the mutation aspect comes in Hix. The first shot is an albino short tail I think and the second is of two GTP's still in their yellow phase. I must be missing something. Could you elaborate.


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## Morelia_Hunter (Aug 24, 2005)

Its a burmese python people. The GTPs will go to a zoo. The frillies and the rest are probably from a big reptile breeding facility in Indonesie. I remember dealing with these guys when i lived in the UK. Its 2 hours from Jakarta, they come and pick you up. Show you some of the rarest pythons in the world and then you get drunk with them. Frillies cost about $30, GTPs about $170 and for the rest would probably be another $200 or so. I am just guessing but this is What I know from dealing with the Indonesiens a few years ago.


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## Kingii (Aug 24, 2005)

Still got their details MH?? 

Due for a good holiday :wink:


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

I agree Peter, they look like perfectly good GTP's to me.


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

I totally agree with you Playwell, my thoughts on exotics is well enough known. To use the latest 'in phrase' wouldn't it be UnAustralian to report the people ?


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## SLACkra (Aug 24, 2005)

i think its bs that we can't even import NATIVE australian reptiles! quaretine them etc. importing non native reptiles aint fantastic.

also an interesting point, there are so many illegal non native reptiles being kept in australia and yet there haven't been any plauges of veiled chameleons have there???

andrew


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

I have always said I am NOT in favour of an open slather approach to exotics, it needs to be regulated and licensed. Lets face it the current 'system' clearly doesn't work, the only exotics that get found are discovered by accident, be it during routine Customs searches or when someones house is raided for an unconnected reason, drugs search etc. 
Slackra, as you rightly say the country isn't being over run by chameleons and tortoises BUT there is far more likelyhood that we will see wild populations of exotics if they are not regulated and controlled.
The authorities need to look at individual species and assess their risk potential, now I realise there will be those that will jump up and down and tell me that every exotic species is a potential risk but this clearly isn't the case.
Putting aside the disease risk which could easily be addressed if a chameleon for example was to escape it's potential to cause damage to the ecosystem would be as near to zero as it is possible to be. The same applies to land tortoises and a great many other species. 
I have a Heath monitor in Brisbane, is that not an exotic species ? As are my Bredli, Diamonds and most of the other animals I keep. 
I understand there will always be those who say we have great animals here and we should be happy with them and not want exotics but I equally understand the opposing view.


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## herptrader (Aug 24, 2005)

The GTP's will not be the Australian native variety. The issue I see with importing these in particular is that they will get on the books as the native variety and screw up our gene pool.

Actually I suspect this has already happened. It is quite possible that very few of the captive GTP's in Australia are pure descendants of the Australian sub species.



SLACkra said:


> i think its bs that we can't even import NATIVE australian reptiles! quaretine them etc. importing non native reptiles aint fantastic.


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## Hickson (Aug 24, 2005)

peterescue said:


> I cant see the where the mutation aspect comes in Hix. The first shot is an albino short tail I think and the second is of two GTP's still in their yellow phase. I must be missing something. Could you elaborate.



Sorry Peter, my bad. I'm at work and only quickly skimmed through the thread before a supervisor asked me what the hell clourful snakes had to do with Food Inspections!

I saw the GTPs, then scrolled to the next shot and assumed it was a mutation GTP, concluding that the yellow GTPs are either hets, or maybe only show their mutation when adult. If they are normal GTP's, then zoos may get them if they are a government-approved Class-A zoo with thier own quarantine facilities and the zoos are prepared to quarantine the snakes for 13 months - in that 13 months the snakes cannot come in contact with any other reptile, or that reptile also remains quarantined until the GTPs have finished quarantine. Unless the new introduction is a seized exotic, in which case the GTPs would have to remain in quarantine until the second seizure has completed it's 13 months.

Some quarantine facilities aren't big enough for that, and some zoos might not consider it worth the effort tieing up their facility for that long. Especially when they don't know the history of the animals.



Hix


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

I think you will find there are very few pure Australian GTP's in collections here so there's not much chance of screwing up the gene pool, they might strengthen it


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

When you think about it. The government is the one to blame when it comes to releasing exotics into Australia (Cane Toads) not private keepers. So to fix their stuff up no one can keep exotics.


EDIT: except zoos and few other places


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## Hickson (Aug 24, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> When you think about it. The government is the one to blame when it comes to releasing exotics into Australia (Cane Toads) not private keepers. So to fix their stuff up no one can keep exotics.


 That's a very cynical point of view. If you truly believe that last statement, then it's also a very narrow-minded point of view.



Hix


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

> very narrow-minded point of view.



Whats narrow about that view???

The governement did release exotics into Australia. They did make exotics illegal and they did stuff up some of our ecosystem.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

*re GTP*

Herptrader i thought you would know buy now the Gtps in australia are hybrids,it seems that way from the posts ive read here and the animals ive seen.Struggling again hix buy some glasses mate :lol: ha ha little chance of those gtps getting put down mate,i got told by the head keeper at taronga many years ago that mostly those that are good exhibits are usually kept and those that are not are uethanised.Diseased ones would be put down of course but he(i think it was hugh peters)was referring to a large number of pacific boas and the progeny they had that he thought would be put down.At that time as an exhibit they had a heap of wvery evenly green chondros crammed into an exhibit cage,i thought they were australian imports but probably bobs.


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## Kingii (Aug 24, 2005)

*re GTP*



oldfella said:


> probably bobs



More than likely they were..

Or the crap PNG ones they put his chips into.

Bastards!!!!
(imo)


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## Dicco (Aug 24, 2005)

Importing Native animals is just stupid, what the hell is the point of putting them through all that quarentine when we already have them here, duh!, Oh, and those Frill-Necks are exotics, last time I checked Southern New Guinea was not part of Australia.


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

I reckon that's a bit harsh, they have tried very hard to stuff up most of our ecosystem.



[email protected] said:


> They did make exotics illegal and they did stuff up some of our ecosystem.


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## Hickson (Aug 24, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> > very narrow-minded point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the Govt did release exotics. Yes the exotics stuffed up our ecosystem. In fact, over a hundred years ago it was govt policy to introduce exotics - _it was actually in the legislation_.

As a said, if you believe your last statement - i.e "So to fix their stuff up no one can keep exotics" - then it is a narrow point of view. The ban on exotics is not to 'fix' the govt's stuff up, it's to make sure that stuff ups don't happen again.

:roll: 

Hix


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## basketcase (Aug 24, 2005)

its funny how all the exotic threads end up the same way :roll: 

the way i see it there are 3 lines of opinion on the subject. theres those who want open slather, those who want only australian fauna in the country and those who want stringent regulation of the exotics already in the country... and these guys dont even realise that u can infact keep non-venomous exotics legally! it just costs alot of money is all.


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

The only way I can see that it would be possible to keep exotics legally is in the event of an amnesty as in NSW and the similar situation in Victoria which didn't really amount to an amnesty and resulted in very little surfacing OR if you have an A grade zoo. There is no other way to do it as far as I know ?


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## Jonathon (Aug 24, 2005)

Why is someone from far north queensland allowed to keep a species of turtle native to south-west WA, when they're not allowed to keep a species that is native to Indonesia? Why isn't the turtle being kept in Queensland not counted as an exotic, its just as much of an exotic as any species from southern Indonesia.


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## Retic (Aug 24, 2005)

This is what I said earlier in this thread, it makes no sense but we are dealing with a Government department here


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## The Rock (Aug 24, 2005)

Because the animals are indigenous to Australia hence native. NPWS classify exotics as non-indigenous to Australia. That matter is more to do with the Dept of Primary Industries in each state.


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## JunglePython (Aug 24, 2005)

I was told a guy was busted coming through Brisbane airport with a bunch of GTP's. The snakes were held by the authorities at a zoo. Anyway these
GTP's were carrying a virus that had not been recorded in this country before.

Eventually the snakes were put down. If these snakes had gotten into collections we would of had another virus to deal with.


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## olivehydra (Aug 24, 2005)

Yay, both Boa and Jonathon have hit the nail on the head! The classification of native vs. exotic is based on imaginary lines on maps. Torres Strait Isl. are ours therefore we can have whitelipped pythons. I've heard suggestions that asian water monitors (salvator?) may visit the T.I.'s so maybe someone who likes their lizards big could argue that theyre aussie  Failing that we may just have to wait until continental drift pushes us into retic and komodo country  
Or..... perhaps little johnnie howard has his sights set on Indo :shock:


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

*re GTP*

It is just a fact that people wont wait with pets,they just get them anyway like what is happening now,theyve already landed and wont be goig awy soon its just being realistic.So it doesnt matter what happens they wont go away cause the pet industry in australia is too big and isolationist routine doesnt work whether right or wrong.


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