# The 2010 Australian Herpetological Symposium, Cairns, Oct 1, 2, & 3



## Pythoninfinite (Sep 3, 2010)

Hello APS members, some news about this forthcoming big event in Far North Queensland!

Scales & Tails Australia is proud to announce that it is now a sponsor for this event, more details of which will be in the September edition of the magazine, and will be in the post from mid next week (it's currently at the printers...) 

We are also please to advise that ExoTerra has come aboard as a sponsor as well, and the founder and manager of ExoTerra, Emmanuel Van Heygen, will be giving a presentation on 'extreme field' herping at the Symposium.

This event promises to be one of the biggest yet held in this country, and boasts a fantastic lineup of international and local speakers, including Michael Cermak, a leading GTP breeder, well known to members of APS.

Stay tuned for more details...

Jamie


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 6, 2010)

I know that we haven't heard much about the Australian Herpetological Symposium since it was first announced over a year ago, with some people wondering if it was still going ahead. As Jamie says however, yes it is definitely on. Scales & Tails Australia, along with Exo Terra, are delighted to have joined the list of sponsors over the last couple of weeks and we are looking forward to what we believe will be a very rewarding weekend. 

We have a great article with more info about it in our September Issue, which will be available from newsagencies and stockists in a little over a week's time. 

As this event has been organised for 1,2,3 October, time is now running out fast, so don't just wait for our magazine to come out, go check it out for yourself at www.izoo.com.au.

I'll look forward to catching up with some of you there.
Cheers
Joy


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## shellfisch (Sep 6, 2010)

Thats quite a coup Joy, congratulations! 

Michelle


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## Ramsayi (Sep 6, 2010)

Way too expensive but good luck with it anyway.


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## levis04 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Way too expensive but good luck with it anyway.



I thought the same thing pal!


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## zulu (Sep 6, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Way too expensive but good luck with it anyway.


 
Its not that bad Rams,return air fares and accomodation,theyve done a package deal,so basically they make about 100 dollars a person if that to bring in some overseas personel to show you how things are done.
Your loaded rams,spend spend spend !


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## Ramsayi (Sep 6, 2010)

zulu said:


> Its not that bad Rams,return air fares and accomodation,theyve done a package deal,so basically they make about 100 dollars a person if that to bring in some overseas personel to show you how things are done.
> Your loaded rams,spend spend spend !


 
Haha.
No I think I will pass,looking at the website I can't see who is organising it and they want you to send a cheque to a PO box.


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## zulu (Sep 6, 2010)

Tell me if you should reconsider Rams,just like a little holiday,ile look after all your greens and albinos and stuff,least i can do.
Go via Hawaii,splash out and relax a bit,youll get the fee off of the tax if you listen to Peter Johnson.(or go to gaol) :lol:


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## Ned_fisch (Sep 6, 2010)

good job!


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## spongebob (Sep 6, 2010)

Yes good luck. Sounds like you need to update the website though as no mention of these new sponsors

Australian Herpetological Symposium


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## Waterrat (Sep 6, 2010)

It will be updated very soon.


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## wokka (Sep 6, 2010)

Will the location cost a lot more for most keepers to attend? Wouldn't it be better held in the center of Aussie herpland? If not Newcastle then, say Sydney.


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## Netty (Sep 6, 2010)

Why didnt they try include this symp on the weekend of the syd rep expo? Why does the line up of speakers demand a such a big ticket price or am i missing something here?


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## Waterrat (Sep 6, 2010)

Wokka, Cairns is THE centre of herpland. LOL


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## Kurto (Sep 6, 2010)

Habitat Systems? Does this mean they'll be selling in Aust?? Man I hope so, they've got some awesome enclosures!


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## Waterrat (Sep 6, 2010)

Kurto, an opportunity knocking - Habitat Systems franchise in Australia?


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## Owzi (Sep 6, 2010)

The symposium line up of speakers looks brilliant, being a huge fan of GTP's I would particularly like to see Rico Walders talks (yes, & yours Michael!). But unfortunatly for me, with a mortgage & young family, the price of this event is way out of my league. I didn't see anything on the registration form about including flights in the price? It makes me wonder what demographic the organisers are aiming this event at? 

Does new sponsors on board mean a new "cheaper" package deal?


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 6, 2010)

Owzi said:


> Does new sponsors on board mean a new "cheaper" package deal?[/QUOTE
> 
> I can't answer your question regarding 'cheaper' package deals, or any other questions regarding costs I'm sorry, because I'm not one of the organisers.
> 
> ...


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## bensen (Sep 7, 2010)

Netty said:


> Why didnt they try include this symp on the weekend of the syd rep expo? Why does the line up of speakers demand a such a big ticket price or am i missing something here?


 
i think you are missing something on several levels.

1. herping around sydney in may is not that good!
2. the lineup of speakers are the best in the world, you cannot even get to see most of those guys speak in the US.
3. it must cost a fortune to bring them all downunder, but the cost of the ticket is worth it for the quality.
4. you will miss out on the best line-up of speakers ever put on in Australia, and all the knowledge they can pass on.

and wokka, *it is* being held in the centre of Aussie Herpland, see you there.

good work Scales and Tails


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## Waterrat (Sep 7, 2010)

Their web site has been updated - check out the photo competition!


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## silverback (Sep 9, 2010)

there are some great images coming in for the photo competition.


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## Netty (Sep 9, 2010)

bensen said:


> i think you are missing something on several levels.
> 
> 1. herping around sydney in may is not that good!
> 2. the lineup of speakers are the best in the world, you cannot even get to see most of those guys speak in the US.
> ...




Nice to see you try give it a plug pal, but its still not worth it. Hope all who attend have fun, my money will be spent on something else.
Is there even anything on Dragons, Geckos or Monitors? Or mainly all GTP's?


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## Waterrat (Sep 9, 2010)

Netty said:


> Nice to see you try give it a plug pal, but its still not worth it. Hope all who attend have fun, my money will be spent on something else.
> Is there even anything on Dragons, Geckos or Monitors? Or mainly all GTP's?



Netty, if you take a look at the speaker's web sites, it will become clear what their interests are and what they're likely to talk about. Understandably, not all aspects of husbandry / herpetology, equipment and business can be covered in two days. The theme is "how to convert from hobby to business" (or something to that effect), which may yield very valuable information to some whilst being of no interest at all to others. Whatever the outcome of this symposium, in a long run, it will benefit the whole reptile keeping industry, not only those attending and the event therefore deserves support and a plug (as you put it) from everybody. If you can't make it there, for whatever reason, give it thumbs up, don't knock it.


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## silverback (Sep 9, 2010)

Netty said:


> but its still not worth it. Hope all who attend have fun, my money will be spent on something else.
> Is there even anything on Dragons, Geckos or Monitors? Or mainly all GTP's?


 
Craig Stewart owns one of the best gecko breeding facilites in the world, Bob Mailloux owns the legendary "Sandfire Dragon Ranch", Allen Repashy was the first person to breed Emerald Monitors, Allen and Philippe have authored some of the best books on geckos ever published! there are only two speakers on GTP's, both high quality I might add. There is a great mix for different fancies. Even for those who like elapids, the boys from Glades Herps coming.

FNQ is great for herping at this time of year, the speakers are top quality, plus it will be a great place to meet others who share the passion.


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## bensen (Sep 9, 2010)

Netty said:


> Nice to see you try give it a plug pal, but its still not worth it.


 
of course i'll give it a plug, but i can't understand why anyone criticises when they haven't even looked into it. of course there's a lot more going on than just gtp's! just look at the links page if you want to know more about the speakers.


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## silverback (Sep 10, 2010)

any attendees who have a special interest in Bearded Dragons, please let us know so we can try and sit you at the Gala Dinner at Bob Mailloux's table. you will be able to pick his brains all night!


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## shellfisch (Sep 10, 2010)

I would have loved to attend, but knew nothing about till recently


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## Waterrat (Sep 10, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> I would have loved to attend, but knew nothing about till recently


 
So, what are you saying, is it too late? 3 weeks to go, go for it.
I buy you a flower. lol


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 10, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> So, what are you saying, is it too late? 3 weeks to go, go for it.
> I buy you a flower. lol


 
You gonna buy me a flower too?????? lol..


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## siouxie (Sep 11, 2010)

what an initiative, good work joy


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## shellfisch (Sep 11, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I buy you a flower. lol



That alone would have been incentive enough! :lol:

 Too many commitments, not enough time for me to arrange things....ah well.


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## wokka (Sep 11, 2010)

Hot tip, I dont know if it's true, but I have heard that Green Effect is now offerring a free flower with every GTP next season ** obviously this will be subject to the usual conditions!


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## Waterrat (Sep 11, 2010)

wokka said:


> Hot tip, I dont know if it's true, but I have heard that Green Effect is now offerring a free flower with every GTP next season ** obviously this will be subject to the usual conditions!


 
Absolutely! And a stubby of XXXX for the blokes. *Condition: *personal pick ups only.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 11, 2010)

lol..... Wonderful marketing idea...... lol


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## Nephrurus (Sep 11, 2010)

Wow! Amazing prize for the photo comp. That is some serious camera gear. I was about to enter but then i saw this old chestnut: 

11. By entering this competition, the entrant grants AHS an irrevocable and unrestricted right to use, reproduce and publish any of the entries, or part thereof, for any purpose at their discretion and in any manner and/or medium, to alter the photograps without restriction and to retain all copyright in the photographs including, but not limited to any future purposes as deemed suitable by AHS.


Best of luck with the symposium. It's not exactly my cup of tea but I thought that lineup would appeal to many of the herpetoculturalists in the hobby.


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## Bushman (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree H. It's a great prize but what is condition 11 about?:?. I also would have entered if it wasn't for that condition of entry. I bet this has turned quite a few photographers off entering. It seems that you lose all rights (including copyright!) and your name doesn't even get associated with your photographs any longer if you wish to benefit from the exposure you'd get from being selected or even winning.:shock: Please correct me if I'm wrong here and not reading the terms correctly.
Otherwise, it sounds like an excellent event that I have no criticism for. It's a great line-up of speakers and topics. 
Likewise, I wish all the best to the event and hope that it goes well.


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## silverback (Sep 12, 2010)

Bushman said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong here and not reading the terms correctly.
> Otherwise, it sounds like an excellent event that I have no criticism for. It's a great line-up of speakers and topics.
> Likewise, I wish all the best to the event and hope that it goes well.


 
yes you have misunderstood the condition, below is an explanation sent by email to all who have inquired,

_"2. there is no transfer of copyright, the conditions protect us from
infringing upon your rights. you will find that our conditions are
standard and protect us when we wish to use and re-use the images for
future promotion of competitions either on our web-sites or in our
sponsors magazines, and to use in an on-line gallery (all low-res images
in the gallery).
3. the conditions simply protect us from entrants stopping us from using
the images on our web-site and in our sponsors' magazines."_

and yes, you are 100% correct, it is a great prize

there have, to date, been 62 entries, some from overseas - all of them are exceptional.

good luck to all entrants


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## Waterrat (Sep 12, 2010)

Another way to look at it - the more exposure your images get, the more advertising for you and your photography.


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## Bushman (Sep 12, 2010)

Only if your name is attached to your images of course, which is what I was checking Waterrat. 
Will this be the case? 

Silverback, thanks for correcting me and for clarifying the condition in question. You might want to re-word that particular condition (#11) as it's obviously being misunderstood and putting people off. Actually, on second thoughts maybe don't, as now that I'm probably going to enter, the less competition there is the better my chances will be.


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## krefft (Sep 12, 2010)

Something like this is really easy to criticise but really hard to organise.
Congratulations to all involved, I hope it's the huge success it deserves to be.


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## shellfisch (Sep 12, 2010)

krefft said:


> Something like this is really easy to criticise but really hard to organise.
> Congratulations to all involved, I hope it's the huge success it deserves to be.



+ 1


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 12, 2010)

krefft said:


> Something like this is really easy to criticise but really hard to organise.
> Congratulations to all involved, I hope it's the huge success it deserves to be.



Sure is a big project. With Scales & Tails on board as sponsors, the event in coming years will have a lot more advance exposure, so interested people will have access to more info, and far earlier, to allow them to plan accordingly.

Jamie


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## Bushman (Sep 12, 2010)

krefft said:


> Something like this is really easy to criticise but really hard to organise...


Krefft, is that comment directed towards me? If so, do you think that my comments are not valid? I'm not the only person that misunderstood that particular set of conditions. H ('Nephrurus') and another highly intelligent, well-educated person that I showed it to were also put off from entering the competition after reading that clause.
I'm glad that H brought it up and my post was answered by Silverback, otherwise I wouldn't have entered. I dare say that others now reading this, that also had similar concerns about those particular conditions of entry, may well enter now. 
Don't misinterpret my criticism of the wording of the conditions into the photo comp to extend to the event in general. I think that the symposium sounds great from what I've read so far and I'm considering going. I'm just looking at the schedule details (and fine print! lol)


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## Waterrat (Sep 12, 2010)

I know Kreft well enough to assume that he didn't direct his comment to you. Your concerns were valid, not critical of the event. 
There was someone else in this thread who wanted to spend his money elsewhere ..... so let him spend. I trust we are all on the same page now.


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## Bushman (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks Michael. I'm being unnecessarily defensive it seems. I should stay off the forums after I've had a drink.


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## bensen (Sep 13, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Another way to look at it - the more exposure your images get, the more advertising for you and your photography.


 
there are so many great photographers on the aussie sites, it would be a shame if people didn't take advantage of this opportunity to showcase their skills. i am sure there will be plenty of people from all around the world having a good look at this competition and symposium.

and nephrurus, if you are interested mainly in field herpetology as opposed to herpetoculture, I think you will find amongst Allen Repashy, Philippe de Vosjoli and Emmanuel van Heygen, you have got some of the best (if not the best) field herpers in the world. I really think talking with those guys would be your "cup of tea". I reckon there is something there for every one.

Less than 3 weeks to go, can't wait.


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## zulu (Sep 13, 2010)

Benson,it would be a good idea to explain to the vewers who some of these people are.Ive heard of Phillipe but who is Allen and Emanuel also Craig Stewart is he from U K pythons ? There overseas guys and not everyone is familiar with them.
If they said Dave Makintosh from Pilbarra Pythons,Neil Sonneman,Brian Bush,Bob Whithey.Ken Griffiths etc were to give a lecture ide know who you were talking about.


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## Waterrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Zulu, apart from Silverback's post here, which says briefly who those people are, each of the speakers has a web site which explains in detail who they are and what their business is. You will find links to those sites on the AHS site under "links".


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## zulu (Sep 13, 2010)

I looked up the UK pythons website and the proprieter is Paul Harris not Craig Stewart LOL


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## Waterrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Who said anything about UK PYTHONS? Craig is a Canadian.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 13, 2010)

zulu said:


> Benson,it would be a good idea to explain to the vewers who some of these people are.Ive heard of Phillipe but who is Allen and Emanuel also Craig Stewart is he from U K pythons ? There overseas guys and not everyone is familiar with them.
> If they said Dave Makintosh from Pilbarra Pythons,Neil Sonneman,Brian Bush,Bob Whithey.Ken Griffiths etc were to give a lecture ide know who you were talking about.


 
I know this isn't much help for this year, but for next year we'll be running bios on each of the guest speakers in plenty of time prior to the Symposium. For this year, we agree with Waterrat, and our advice is to click onto the links for the different speakers that you'll find on the official AHS site.
cheers
Joy


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## redbellybite (Sep 13, 2010)

Best of luck to all involved ,sounds like a major effort is being put into this,dollars well may be exxy to some ,but reasonable to others... Just one question 'those' that are running it into the ground before it is even on , why?...sure you can have queries on costs involved and such ..and maybe not all fields of reptiles are covered ,but this to me, was aimed at a specific lot of herpers with this type of reptile hobby/further business makings ,and they will get alot out of it ...sounds great if it was up my alley would love to go, but as my dollar dont stretch that far and my collection is minimal ,alas, I wont be there ...sad I know.... but true  
and my final say,,,, I hate you all for owning GTP'S and all the other reps that are on my fantasy list ...GOODLUCK get pics (I want to make a dart board so get your heads in the shots)


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 13, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Best of luck to all involved ,sounds like a major effort is being put into this,dollars well may be exxy to some ,but reasonable to others... Just one question 'those' that are running it into the ground before it is even on , why?...sure you can have queries on costs involved and such ..and maybe not all fields of reptiles are covered ,but this to me, was aimed at a specific lot of herpers with this type of reptile hobby/further business makings ,and they will get alot out of it ...sounds great if it was up my alley would love to go, but as my dollar dont stretch that far and my collection is minimal ,alas, I wont be there ...sad I know.... but true
> and my final say,,,, I hate you all for owning GTP'S and all the other reps that are on my fantasy list ...GOODLUCK get pics (I want to make a dart board so get your heads in the shots)


 

I'll look forward to catching up with you at our Festival in November instead.
cheers
Joy


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## Waterrat (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up RBB. You're right in that not every aspect of herpetology can be covered in a single conference but apart from the keeping / breeding talks, there are going to be some interesting conceptual presentations concerning us Aussies. I had the privilege to read Greg Miles' paper on commercial utilisation of wildlife and conservation breeding - a very thought provoking approach to the future direction of herpetoculture. I am also looking forward to see what angle Peter Johnson takes on his topic "transition from hobby to business", considering that (in most states), we are not allowed to set up commercial venture involving protected wildlife. 
And the gala dinner should be a great treat too. My next door neighbor is the Executive Chef at the Cassino complex, so I may whisper few words into his ear. LOL


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## redbellybite (Sep 13, 2010)

Joy from S & T said:


> I'll look forward to catching up with you at our Festival in November instead.
> cheers
> Joy


REALLY Joy you really wanna meet me ? hahahahah  game lady


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 13, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> REALLY Joy you really wanna meet me ? hahahahah  game lady



lol


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 13, 2010)

Don't you guys know that if a book is not about Australian reptiles, then it's not worth reading? Is that not the general sentiment? All you need to do is google some of the names attending! You would be surprised just how much information these guys have shared over the years with their articles and publications. Allen Repashy pioneered the artificial gecko food industry, when everybody said it was impossible! Philippe wrote books on the successful keeping of many thought to be impossible to keep species. Bob Mailloux streamlined mass production of high quality bearded dragons along with some other species. The achievements off these guys are too many to name. Sometimes people just need to move out of their comfort zone to realise that Australia fills a very small niche in the international reptile scene.


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## silverback (Sep 13, 2010)

zulu said:


> There _(sic)_ overseas guys and not everyone is familiar with them.


 
either go to our links page Australian Herpetological Symposium

or google the names, you'll be absolutely in awe of the experience these guys have.

in addition, checkout our sponsor's page Exo Terra - Make Your Reptiles Feel At Home

or if you want to be absolutely blown away by the experiences and expeditions of extreme field herping you have to check out Emmanuel van Heygen Flickr: Emmanuel Van Heygen's Photostream

by the way, we are approaching 100 entries in the photo competition, the quality is unbelievable


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## Netty (Sep 13, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Netty, if you take a look at the speaker's web sites, it will become clear what their interests are and what they're likely to talk about. Understandably, not all aspects of husbandry / herpetology, equipment and business can be covered in two days. The theme is "how to convert from hobby to business" (or something to that effect), which may yield very valuable information to some whilst being of no interest at all to others. Whatever the outcome of this symposium, in a long run, it will benefit the whole reptile keeping industry, not only those attending and the event therefore deserves support and a plug (as you put it) from everybody. If you can't make it there, for whatever reason, give it thumbs up, don't knock it.


 
I am not knocking it, just saying i wont spend my money on it! I hope it goes well for all who attend. I also relaise the calibre of the speakers now after doing some reaserch. I have only really heard about this even in the last 3 weeks why was it not advertised more frequently on site and other places? I also think it will be good for the hobby but just thought it would have been better slotted in to the syd expo weekend.( This was just a thought)


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## Kristy_07 (Sep 13, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> and my final say,,,, i hate you all for owning gtp's and all the other reps that are on my fantasy list ...goodluck get pics (i want to make a dart board so get your heads in the shots)



giggle!!!


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## levis04 (Sep 13, 2010)

Will there be any animals on display through out this event? Just was interested?


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## silverback (Sep 14, 2010)

levis04 said:


> Will there be any animals on display through out this event?


 
there won't be any live animals at the symposium, but the location offers Cairns Tropical Zoo, Hartleys Creek Crocodile Farm, the Rainforest Habitat plus limitless herping locations. there is so much to see and do in FNQ, it was the ideal location for the inaugural event.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Sep 14, 2010)

My only grievance is that I cannot attend! Not sure who is a representative for the symposium but, are there plans to make this an annual event? This is the kind of event that anyone with a serious interest in herpetology, should make an effort to attend. I know that if there will be further symposiums, I will certainly make it a priority to attend the next!


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 14, 2010)

The organisers are committed to making this an annual event, and it will be far better promoted in the next 2 years, giving everyone who may be interested an opportunity to organise themselves to attend. It is proposed to hold it in a different venue/location every year.

Jamie.


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## Waterrat (Sep 14, 2010)

Eh, what's wrong with having it in Cairns every year? I can walk down. LOL 
I bet you everybody will want to come back.


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## silverback (Sep 14, 2010)

there will be an announcement in the next issue of Scales and Tails magazine about the 2011 symposium.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 14, 2010)

Yep,,,, and my lips are sealed until then. lol

OMG!!!!! Do you know how hard it is for me to keep secrets??????? I just about burst. lol.


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## silverback (Sep 15, 2010)

how come geckos are so photogenic, but hardly any have been submitted in our photo competition? there are lots of budding photographers on the aussie forums who are yet to enter, you don't want to miss out.


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## bensen (Sep 16, 2010)

sent through some gecko photos.


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## silverback (Sep 20, 2010)

we now have over 200 entries, keep them coming!


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## Kurto (Sep 20, 2010)

I was just reading through the program of events, bummer I didn't know about this event a little earlier. Quite a few talks I'd love to hear! Anyone want to hold a tape recorder for me!


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## Kitah (Sep 20, 2010)

silverback said:


> how come geckos are so photogenic, but hardly any have been submitted in our photo competition? there are lots of budding photographers on the aussie forums who are yet to enter, you don't want to miss out.


 
If I had access to geckos to take photos of, I'd submit some haha


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## silverback (Sep 21, 2010)

we have hit 300 entries in our photo contest, keep them coming. the judging round shortlist will be on our web-site gallery from the 26th September for you all to peruse.

good luck all


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## The Devil (Sep 22, 2010)

A few of us were talking about this the other night, unfortunately I won't be able to attend.

Someone asked the question, who is behind this or doing all the organizing????????????

No one seemed to know, I saw that Scales and Tails are sponsors but someone must be doing the bookings and all that stuff.......


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## Kanga-Who (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm another one that can't afford the trip, maybe next year.
seems like a bit of friction floating around could be a interesting weekend


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## ToadCountry (Sep 23, 2010)

I just can't afford it.....otherwise I would go.
And it's only just down the road !!


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## da_donkey (Sep 23, 2010)

i'll be there with bells on.


donks


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 23, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> i'll be there with bells on.
> 
> 
> donks



That'll be interesting donks... how's things?

J.


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## mummabear (Sep 23, 2010)

I can't understand what all the negativity is about. I wouldn't have though the symposium could be judged until it is over. I think it is one of those things that is either your cup of tea or not. The line up looks very impressive. The information that people might need to take their hobby to the next level. I'm guessing it will be like a business course for the herp lover with all the extras. I am very excited about attending even if it's to carry peoples bags or shine their shoes. I will be a volunteer at the event. Cairns is such a lovely place to hold it. I'm sure the first year of any event is hard as no one really knows what to expect. It's like anything though, if its not supported then we all may miss out next time. You can either justify the cash or not. It's either your cup of tea or not. See you there.


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## Kitah (Sep 23, 2010)

mummabear said:


> I can't understand what all the negativity is about. I wouldn't have though the symposium could be judged until it is over. I think it is one of those things that is either your cup of tea or not. The line up looks very impressive. The information that people might need to take their hobby to the next level. I'm guessing it will be like a business course for the herp lover with all the extras. I am very excited about attending even if it's to carry peoples bags or shine their shoes. I will be a volunteer at the event. Cairns is such a lovely place to hold it. I'm sure the first year of any event is hard as no one really knows what to expect. It's like anything though, if its not supported then we all may miss out next time. You can either justify the cash or not. It's either your cup of tea or not. See you there.


 
I agree with this, personally. Nicely said


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## Waterrat (Sep 23, 2010)

mummabear said:


> I am very excited about attending even if it's to carry peoples bags or shine their shoes. I will be a volunteer at the event.



I'll be wearing thongs, the only bags will be those under my eyes but you can poor me a glass of wine at the dinner - you'll be a champion.


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## da_donkey (Sep 23, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> That'll be interesting donks... how's things?
> 
> J.


 
hahahah now im gonna have to really wear bells!


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## Chadleystar (Sep 23, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I'll be wearing thongs, the only bags will be those under my eyes but you can poor me a glass of wine at the dinner - you'll be a champion.



Hehehe! Mummabear we better start practicing that wine pooring at your place before before the event so we dont dissapoint M.


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## mummabear (Sep 23, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I'll be wearing thongs, the only bags will be those under my eyes but you can poor me a glass of wine at the dinner - you'll be a champion.


 
Lucky i was a barmaid in my younger years. Wine it is.


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## silverback (Sep 25, 2010)

over 500 entries in our photo competition, we'll have the shortlisted ones in the gallery over the week-end.

good luck to all who have entered.


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## silverback (Sep 26, 2010)

our photo competition has now closed, and thanks for the rush at the end to keep us up all night!

all we can say is..........*whoa hot damn!*


Australian Herpetological Symposium


we selected the final cut from well over 1000 entries, and we regret that we could not include more. nonetheless, our short-list ain't that short!


we received entries from Australia, Canada, United States, United Kingdom and several European countries. 

the winning image will be selected from those short-listed entries by our judge, world renowned wildlife photographer, David Northcott.

all credits will be added after the judging process.

we have selected entries from many different styles, wildlife, captive, studio....some with great depth etc

good luck to those which have progressed in the competition, and thanks to all who entered.


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## eipper (Sep 26, 2010)

I reckon there is a direct conflict of interest and as such I want my pics removed from the competition and not to be used for any purposes by the organisers or sponsers.

Other short listed photographers feel the same way and have mentioned they will be contacting you about this.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Bushman (Sep 26, 2010)

Scott, could you please elaborate on the conflict of interest?


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## jeffspythons (Sep 26, 2010)

That's a shame. This is a world class array of images. These are as good as, maybe better than any I've seen in expensive coffee table books. Certainly well beyond anything I'm capable of snapping myself.


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## eipper (Sep 26, 2010)

Bushman,

Well I think that if people whom are speaking at, delegates for or other effective employees of the company running this symposium I feel that its a conflict of interest. I have spoken with Neil this afternoon and he does not see it that way, however I do. 

If you look at the way competitions are run by other companies, most if not all have a stipulation that family members or employees are prohibited from entering on these grounds.

Mind you I would like to make it clear that I do not have an issue with the photographers in question (they have acted within the guidelines).

Cheers,
Scott


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 26, 2010)

Mind you I would like to make it clear that I do not have an issue with the photographers in question (they have acted within the guidelines).

So what's the problem? 

J.


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## Kurto (Sep 26, 2010)

would you be happy if you entered a competition with a radio station and the DJ ended up the winner?


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## eipper (Sep 26, 2010)

I thought it was fairly clear Jamie.....


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 26, 2010)

I do see your point Scott, but I guess your post here looked a bit petulant at first glance, because it didn't indicate what the problem was. I haven't seen the rules because I don't enter these things (or any competitions for that matter), so I really shot my mouth off before I fully understood the issue (unusual for me lol!). 

Jamie.


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## silverback (Sep 26, 2010)

eipper said:


> If you look at the way competitions are run by other companies, most if not all have a stipulation that family members or employees are prohibited from entering on these grounds.


 
i can absolutely assure you that no employee or family member has entered the competition.

from speaking with some disgruntled entrants i am surprised that there is a sense that Shannon Plummer and Michael Cermak are employees of the company. this is not true.

before we go further, i should also make clear that Steve Bullock has been contracted by us to photograph at the event.

it is our intention at all times to take herpetology/herpetoculture in a certain direction, not all agree with. the photo competition is a medium which we are using to promote this year's and subsequent years' event. the idea is to gain interest from overseas, and to give australians an avenue to showcase their works.

by any measure, the three people mentioned are amongst this country's best herp photographers, and as a company which is happy to showcase talent for the promotion of the hobby/industry, we are happy to utilise their photos in the manner in which they have been entered into the competition, and we would never deny them or any other photographer the opportunity to showcase their works.

it is a shame that some entrants have contacted us to withdraw their entries because of the ideology that there is a sham in play that they want no part of. we have engaged a highly respected wildlife photographer to be the judge. we like many others consider him to be the best in the world, and it would be a disgrace to suggest that he was part of a sham competition.

our company offers no apology for accepting any of the entries that we received, and are indeed delighted to have received all of the entries ( over 1000 ). we hope that everyone that has been afforded the opportunity to showcase their works gains some benefit from it.

we intend running the competition each year, and as stated, will not deny any photographer the opportunity to showcase their works. the judge each year, will have full and unfettered powers to pick the winner.

in concluding, everyone must agree that the short-listed entries are absolutely amazing and every one deserves recognition.

good luck to all the entrants.


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## jeffspythons (Sep 26, 2010)

What am I missing here? All I can see are a host of really flash photos. I guess it's a "short list" but there hardly seems anything short about it. I haven't seen anything that gives me any clues as to who is going to win? Seems to me to be a lot of fuss going on based on speculation. but maybe I'm not seeing the big picture?


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## Kitah (Sep 27, 2010)

silverback said:


> i can absolutely assure you that no employee or family member has entered the competition.
> 
> from speaking with some disgruntled entrants i am surprised that there is a sense that Shannon Plummer and Michael Cermak are employees of the company. this is not true.
> 
> ...



Personally, I think the competition and everything you guys have done is great! You're giving people a chance to show what they can do, and as you said, attracting attention from worldwide. I most certainly would not consider this to be a sham competition, and I think you've done everything fairly! As you've stated, Shannon and Michael don't work for the company, so I don't really understand what the problem is, either? 

Anyway I know I'm just an insignificant bystander, but those are just my thoughts and opinions  Thanks for putting the time and effort into the event and photo comp! I really wish I could go, it'd be great to learn from those speakers! I'm really interested in becoming a herp vet (4th year vet student at the moment) and this would have been bloody brilliant to go to! Ahh, who knows, theres always next year!


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## cement (Sep 27, 2010)

"it is our intention at all times to take herpetology/herpetoculture in a certain direction, not all agree with."

I would love to attend something like this, though i don't understand that statement.
Good luck hope it goes well, maybe i could look into it more and go next time. Never been to Cairns..


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## ToadCountry (Sep 28, 2010)

I have no idea why some people would withdraw their photos.

What a shame that people would feel that way.....it seems that you just can't satisfy everyone !!

Staging an annual Symposium is a fantastic way to learn and mix with people who have forgotten more than I'll ever know.

Just my two cents.


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## Waterrat (Sep 29, 2010)

Scott, _et al_. who think I am an employee of the AHS company or have any association with it: for the record, I am not anyone's employee, I am not on the organising committee, nor I am involved in the actual organising of the vent in any official capacity. I am one of several delegates giving a talk at the symposium - THAT IS ALL.

Shame on you Scott for stirring the dust without knowing the facts.

Michael Cermak


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## shellfisch (Sep 30, 2010)

I hope all goes well this weekend at the Symposium, and that everything flows along nicely and according to plan for all the hard working organisers. 
All you lucky buggers who are attending - enjoy the weekend. 

I am looking forward to hearing all about it here on APS, and in 'Scales & Tails Australia' magazine.

I think holding a Symposium such as this can only be a good thing for the hobby, and I applaud the organising committee for bringing what was a massive undertaking to reality.


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## Waterrat (Sep 30, 2010)

The guest speakers are all here, refreshed and charged up after spending some time at Iron Range, having good time. It was a great trip, a great bunch of people.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm looking forward to catching up with everyone over the weekend. I'm sure it will be fabulous.
Cheers
Joy


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## silverback (Sep 30, 2010)

thankyou everyone for your support, for those who could not attend this year, please wait for a huge announcement after this week-end about next year's event. it will be bigger and hopefully more accessible to the many who were unable to attend this year. a symposium dvd will be available from mid-december, order details will be on our web-site and in S&T.

another huge photo contest will be up and running from early next year, so get your images ready and check out S&T for details of this year's winner.

again, thankyou for your support.


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## Chadleystar (Oct 2, 2010)

WOW attened today and listed to some amazing and informitive talks from guest speakers, great venue and fantasic group of helpful and knowlegdeable (spelling sry) people. With them already starting to talk about next year being in Sydney and alot of the speakers talking about returning to do it all again I cant wait till tomorrow to hear more wonderful stories and some more amazing ideas on possiblites of where Australian Herpetoculture could progress to in the future. If you missed this year, wait to see what they are planning on doing next year......


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## Kitah (Oct 2, 2010)

Aww, not Sydney! The herps are all up here, in FNQ!! haha  

I was just coming to post here asking how today went, from the sound of it, its as good as I expected!

I'm also looking forward to hearing which photo David selected/selects as his favourite! I certainly don't envy his decision though


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## Chadleystar (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi there all,

I am sure that some if not all of you have seen that we had the first Australian Herpetoculture Symposium here in Cairns over the weekend. I was lucky enough to be able to attend this year and I have to say the quality of speakers was outstanding. However the one thing that was missing from all the talks was someone from the Gecko field to talk about techniques we use here in Australia even if at only a hobby level.

So what I wanted to do was to put it to you all that firstly if you get a chance to attend next year in Sydney (it’s expected to be held at Taronga Zoo) go along. The wealth of knowledge in that room over this weekend was outstanding and most if not all the speakers both from here and in the US will be returning next year. Second I would love to see someone with an interest in moving the Gecko industry here in Australia give a talk and share their experiences not only with the wider herp community but also with the keepers over in the US. The relationships I have built over the last 3 days will be not only be invaluable to my herping future but will stay with me to pass onto others as it was passed onto me.

It was also a great avenue to be able to see where Australia is heading in the future in this industry and a chance to learn from America's mistakes. The speakers were honest and open about the mistakes they had made and the results of that. Which you rarely hear about but really need to have an understanding of if we expect Herpetoculture to keep moving forward in Australia in the leaps and bounds it has over the last 20 odd years.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 3, 2010)

It was a great weekend! Met some childhood idols! The amount of knowledge was unreal and the presentations were worldclas! Congratulations to the organisers for arranging such a wonderful event.


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## spongebob (Oct 3, 2010)

Chadleystar said:


> Hi there all,
> 
> I am sure that some if not all of you have seen that we had the first Australian Herpetoculture Symposium here in Cairns over the weekend. I was lucky enough to be able to attend this year and I have to say the quality of speakers was outstanding. However the one thing that was missing from all the talks was someone from the Gecko field to talk about techniques we use here in Australia even if at only a hobby level.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## jeffspythons (Oct 4, 2010)

Might be an attitude thing?


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## spongebob (Oct 4, 2010)

jeffspythons said:


> Might be an attitude thing?



Yes I agree. Lizards, and geckos in particular tend to play second fiddle to other herps, snakes in particular. Geckos tend to be cheaper and not draw so much attention compared with herps such as snake morphs. They also tend to attract more female keepers. Perhaps snakes are seen as more macho?

It's a pity as Australia has a wonderful array of geckos and some excellent gecko keepers -Danny Brown, and Rob Porter to name just two. Perhaps they could be considered for the next symposium?

B


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## jeffspythons (Oct 4, 2010)

Perhaps there's an opportunity for you to provide the venture capital to make the next event a truly enthralling spectacle?
Me, I don't have those resources,so I just stand up and salute those that put their money where their mouth is. The old saying goes " Money talks and BS walks!"
it was a Fantastic event and I'll be back.
Well done to the organizers !


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## Kurto (Oct 4, 2010)

who won the photo comp?


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## Waterrat (Oct 4, 2010)

Kurto said:


> who won the photo comp?



Not me or Shannon and we are both very glad it went that way - don't need to say any more ......... (cheers Scott Eiper).


The symposium was fantastic and no doubt next year's will be be bigger and better. As far as I know, the herp community will be invited to submit papers and the best (number of papers covering all aspects of herpetology) will be selected for presentations. So, get you pen to paper, the time flies.


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## Kurto (Oct 4, 2010)

so scott eiper won? sorry I dont understand.


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## Kitah (Oct 4, 2010)

Glad everyone enjoyed the symposium! roughly how much would the DVD cost? I'm just wondering whether it would be helpful for future career in vet science, with an interest in reptiles?


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## jeffspythons (Oct 4, 2010)

Kitah said:


> Glad everyone enjoyed the symposium! roughly how much would the DVD cost? I'm just wondering whether it would be helpful for future career in vet science, with an interest in reptiles?


 

Kitah,
From the volume of material recorded in High Definition, I seriously doubt that all the topics/speakers could be loaded to one DVD. I understand that the intention is to give people the option to sample each topic on links to Youtube for example and then nominate which and how many speakers'presentations they would like. Volumes on a topic: Eg GTPs might include Michael Cermack's and Rico Walder's brilliant talks and Veterinary Science would be the two very comprehensive offerings from Dr Mark Simpson. The list goes on. With the sheer volume of quality material might lend itself to larger topics being offered on DVDs and or USB sticks compatible with current large screen TVs. I understand that the organisers will be able to firm up on pricing once the professional editing is complete.

On a personal level, I'd have to say that there won't be too much material I won't want in my library to re-digest again and again. There certainly was too much for this old bloke to rely on his memory for.

Rico Bloody Walder and Michael Cermack certainly threw my plans out the window after their wonderful presentations. I was quite happy to go to my grave never owning a GTP but those buggers brought me unstuck. Another must have damn it.

Watch this space for further updates from the organisers but please be patient as there's a lot for the camera guy and them to process.

The Rico Walder quip is tongue in cheek. Nice bloke and a Tennesseean who drinks Rum: My kinda guy! In fact the whole Yank contingent were first class blokes and I really look forward to catching up with them again next year same time in Taronga.


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## Kitah (Oct 4, 2010)

jeffspythons said:


> Kitah,
> From the volume of material recorded in High Definition, I seriously doubt that all the topics/speakers could be loaded to one DVD. I understand that the intention is to give people the option to sample each topic on links to Youtube for example and then nominate which and how many speakers'presentations they would like. Volumes on a topic: Eg GTPs might include Michael Cermack's and Rico Walder's brilliant talks and Veterinary Science would be the two very comprehensive offerings from Dr Mark Simpson. The list goes on. With the sheer volume of quality material might lend itself to larger topics being offered on DVDs and or USB sticks compatible with current large screen TVs. I understand that the organisers will be able to firm up on pricing once the professional editing is complete.
> 
> On a personal level, I'd have to say that there won't be too much material I won't want in my library to re-digest again and again. There certainly was too much for this old bloke to rely on his memory for.
> ...



I hadn't thought about the sheer size of the recorded material... That could be interesting! And I understand that there's a lot to be processed, I was meerly curious at this stage, if they had any vague idea


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## Waterrat (Oct 4, 2010)

jeffspythons said:


> In fact the whole Yank contingent were first class blokes and I really look forward to catching up with them again next year same time in Taronga.



Couldn't agree any more. You should have been with us at Iron Range Jeff, the unedited talks, some Chivas, seafood at Portland Roads cafe and lots and lots of herping was just fantastic. Now I have to process the 160 images and write an article for Scales & Tails .... head down, a.. up!


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## beautifulpythons (Oct 4, 2010)

It was a great weekend, and I was only there for a couple of days, next year will be bigger and better and Im looking forward to it again. Presentations were brilliant and was great to have a drink (till 3am) with some of the internationals.

As for the DVD, it would be unfair for those who paid to be there to then buy a cheap DVD of all the presentations and gala dinner awards. So if they release it, don't expect it to be cheap, with good reason as far as Im concerned.

Next year there will be 3 days of speakers I believe so even MORE reason to be there.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Oct 4, 2010)

lol Jeff & Michael........

Yep Jeff, more money to spend now. lol.... Fantastic presentations weren't they? I made notes, but my mind is still foggy from trying to absorb soooooo much.

Hehehhehehe Michael...... I'd love a copy of those unedited talks too. lol. 

Seriously everyone, it was absolutely so very worth while. I'll post more, including details on the winner of the photo contest (I need to phone the organisers to get this from them), when I start to clear some of this 'fog' from my head. I've just flown back in. Sooooooo tired and brain dead at the minute!

cheers
Joy


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## silverback (Oct 5, 2010)

spongebob said:


> Geckos ...... also tend to attract more female keepers. Perhaps snakes are seen as more macho?



i can assure you, there were so many glamorous females at this year's symposium, i thought i had walked into the brownlow dinner.

the winning image in the photo competition will be posted when we get back to sydney.

no matter what price the symposium discs are sold for, nothing can replace meeting and befriending the legends that all who attended were honoured to meet.

the theme was "professional herpetoculture" and all speakers demonstrated why they were invited to speak, all display absolute professionalism.

for 2011, we will have more of the best from around the world. we will be announcing next year's list of speaker's shortly, and calling for submissions to complement those presentations.

thankyou to all the speakers for making it a memorable event, thankyou to all the new friends we made, sorry to all the old friends we had so little time to spend with.

i could write a whole lot more, but you'll have to buy scales and tails to read more.

one thing i can say is people's views of "going herping" should take on a whole new meaning after seeing Emmanuel van Heygen's talk about his Madagascan herping adventures.


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## Kitah (Oct 5, 2010)

I really think I have to start saving for next year! Hopefully uni will be a bit more forgiving


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## Troy K. (Oct 5, 2010)

Thank you so much to the organisers of this event. Had a great weekend and learnt so much. It was good to catch up with some old friends and always fun meeting and making new ones. I strongly recommend that people try and get to next years symposium.
Troy K


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2010)

I can only second what has been said here already, even an old commie like me... Still, as Peter Johnson points out, a plane needs 2 wings to fly, a right one and a left one... although I think they still have planes with one wing in Qld lol!!!

Seriously, although I got onto my Brissy-Cairns flight with seconds to spare, and got a flat battery in the middle of nowhere yesterday on my way home (adding 3 hours to an already 6 hour drive!!!), it was a fabulous weekend. The lineup of speakers (both imports and locals), the venue and facilities(comfort, service... and the food was incredible), and the location (Cairns) were all very special indeed.

The genteel manner of all the speakers, and their willingness to share the details of their many years of working with herps, was impressive. Each and every one of them was accessible and happy to engage Symposium delegates at any time through the weekend. Despite the dangers of flying in Queensland (how they keep them in the air with such big right wings I'll never know...) I'd be back there in a flash...

I think I can guarantee the next one, booked for Taronga in 2011, will be similarly stimulating. Some people have commented about the cost, but for a really great weekend in luxury surroundings, in an incredible place and engaging with some of the most interesting herp people I've ever met, it is truly a bargain. At most it represents the cost of a few hatchies. I'll be reflecting on it for a long time to come.

Congratulations to the organisers, all of them, and thanks to the speakers - each and every one of them have major contributions to make to herpetoculture in this country. The overseas guests assist greatly in removing the blinkers from our somewhat parochial eyes. 

It was a memorable event.

Jamie.


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## Waterrat (Oct 6, 2010)

I too got a lot out of it. Apart from picking Rico's brain on GTPs, Alan Repashy's words are still ringing in my ears, my interpretation of what he implied is: we may be a bunch of good breeders but very few of us (including some BIG names) have any business sense. All we seem to be able to do is advertise how much cheaper we are going to sell our reptiles this year than we did last year. "Create you market first, then breed to match the demand". When I asked Alan how to create my market, he let out a few words of wisdom. This guy successfully runs several business and employs several people. Worth listening to?


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## Kurto (Oct 6, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I too got a lot out of it. Apart from picking Rico's brain on GTPs, Alan Repashy's words are still ringing in my ears, my interpretation of what he implied is: we may be a bunch of good breeders but very few of us (including some BIG names) have any business sense. All we seem to be able to do is advertise how much cheaper we are going to sell our reptiles this year than we did last year. "Create you market first, then breed to match the demand". When I asked Alan how to create my market, he let out a few words of wisdom. This guy successfully runs several business and employs several people. Worth listening to?


 
Interesting thoughts Michael, I have to agree; There's only a couple of breeders here in Oz who really know how to market their product(animals), though having said that it's still illegal in most states to "sell" anyway!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 6, 2010)

Don't accept payment plans! Because you will be raising someones snakes for them! 
Do not talk **** about the opposition! 
Do not accept deposits on animals before you know exactly what your inventory will be!
Set up separate accounts from the start so you know what your money is and what is snake money!
Beardies being raised without UV lighting at all!
Geckos raised from day one on an artificial diet and still going 14 years on!
Using ultrasound in green pythons and how to interpret the images! 
Deaths involving pregnant females and necropsies done to asses what the causes were!
Feeding green pythons 30 to 40 feeds a year of one full grown mouse, to achieve breeding condition!
Data involving a year cycle in a green tree python at Signal herpetoculture!
Super zebra granites!
Blue eyed green tree frogs!
How to take photos of geckos and frogs in mid air!
How to tAke photos of snakes striking!
Gateway reptiles!
Setting up dams and filters for breeding of soft shell turtles!
The list is endless! I would have to get all the presentations to take in some more information!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 6, 2010)

I also found it extremely interesting to see that Michael Cermaks hatchlings weigh on average 4 grams more than what is being bred by Signal herpetoculture. Good stuff Michael.


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## levis04 (Oct 6, 2010)

Yeah Bob i would have thought Rob Porter would have got the job, oh well there is always next yr. Alot of people in Aus are doing amazing things with geckos now days. Maybe if you get the gig next yr Bob you could pack me in your suitcase LOL!
Regards ryan


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## silverback (Oct 6, 2010)

*CarpetPythons.com.au *that list is a fraction of the subjects addressed at the symposium. it is great to see you have absorbed a lot. i have already spoken to people in the zoo industry who want to adopt things they have learned, and i know people have already ordered things like data loggers which many only learned of their applications at the symposium.

there was so much information, it is impressive that these guys are so willing to share it all. the discs will be a valuable asset to breeders, zoos, and any passionate herper.

we are already in negotiations to bring some big big names here for taronga. some we have already confirmed. there will be something for everyone. geckos, frogs, vet stuff, dna technology,snakes, and i'm afraid, probably gtp's because rico has nothing else to talk about!

the talks are great, but for any passionate herper, the whole week-end, day and night, doing nothing but talking herps, is a buzz. taronga will be an extra day and night.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2010)

And I can drive there without risking my life on a one winged plane...

J.


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## FAY (Oct 6, 2010)

As for speakers...David and Tracey Barker?


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## silverback (Oct 6, 2010)

*photo competition winner*

attached is the winning entry.

the photographer is Royden Lepp from Seattle

we are trying to bring him here as next year's judge, but the bad news is that david northcott can now enter next year!


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## silverback (Oct 6, 2010)

i would like to point out that judging is not a simple exercise, david spent many hours going through each and every photograph in the shortlist ( 93 images ) methodically scrutinising the sharpness as well as other aspects. he will be commenting on his top 24 in articles in S&T on how each were critiqued. we hope this helps a lot of budding photographers, and we are trying to arrange a photography workshop with some of the world's best photographers at taronga. please wait for details.


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## Slickturtle (Oct 6, 2010)

*Hi Silverback*




silverback said:


> i would like to point out that judging is not a simple exercise, david spent many hours going through each and every photograph in the shortlist ( 93 images ) methodically scrutinising the sharpness as well as other aspects. he will be commenting on his top 24 in articles in S&T on how each were critiqued. we hope this helps a lot of budding photographers, and we are trying to arrange a photography workshop with some of the world's best photographers at taronga. please wait for details.


 

The photos were indeed great. But I wouldn't have chosen this one. Maybe for an Australian to win next year they will have to submit a pic of an American reptile. LOL

Slickturtle


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## Wally (Oct 6, 2010)

I wouldn't have chosen it for the fact it's an altered picture. As great as the Frilled Neck looks against the black background, it's been fiddled with too much to win such a competition. JMO.


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## Waterrat (Oct 6, 2010)

Wally, "fiddling" or adjusting images in post-production is the way of modern photography. The competition didn't specify that the submitted images had to be natural / pure / untouched. 

Funny you say that Slickturtle, the runner up image was of a Bornean frog taken by an Aussie photographer. :lol::lol::lol:


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## Kurto (Oct 6, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Wally, "fiddling" or adjusting images in post-production is the way of modern photography. The competition didn't specify that the submitted images had to be natural / pure / untouched.



I'll remember that for next time!


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## Wally (Oct 6, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Wally, "fiddling" or adjusting images in post-production is the way of modern photography. The competition didn't specify that the submitted images had to be natural / pure / untouched.
> 
> Funny you say that Slickturtle, the runner up image was of a Bornean frog taken by an Aussie photographer. :lol::lol::lol:



I'm surprised you'd say that given your penchant for backdrops in photography, of which I'm a fan.



Kurto said:


> I'll remember that for next time!



Me too, I guess.


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## Waterrat (Oct 6, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> I'm surprised you'd say that given your penchant for backdrops in photography, of which I'm a fan.


 
As far as I could ascertain it was an open comp to all styles; naturalistic, artistic, etc..
What would you say had Shannon Plummer won, with her distinctive style?


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## Wally (Oct 6, 2010)

My opinion would be the same, based on the same critiques.


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## silverback (Oct 7, 2010)

it is because of the above arguments, that we chose david as the judge, he is professional and would not allow prejudices to impair his judgement in choosing the best image. please read his critique of 24 images in coming issues of S&T where he will explain his assessments.

nonetheless and quite simply, in an open competition, studio, captive or wildlife shots are all acceptable. if a judge held prejudices against studio or artistic styles, the competition would not be fair. for obvious reasons, we have to provide a fair competition.


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## bensen (Oct 7, 2010)

silverback said:


> there were so many glamorous females at this year's symposium, i thought i had walked into the brownlow dinner.


 
aint that the truth


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## Royden (Oct 7, 2010)

Hey guys! Just being nosey. Sorry for those that felt that the frilled photo wasn't worthy of winning. I was rather surprised by David's choice, but obviously pleasantly surprised. I've judged several small competitions and it was not easy. I'm excited to take on the task next year and will be contacting David to learn all I can from him.

In a bit of self defense, I don't do anything to my photos that couldn't be done in a dark room with film. 

Wondering what everyone's favorite photo of the shortlist was?


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## Waterrat (Oct 7, 2010)

Congratulations Royden, I have seen quite a few of your photos - just great. See you in Sydney next year.

Michael Carmak


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## silverback (Oct 7, 2010)

g'day royden,

no-one at the symposium who watched all the great images on display was overly surprised that you won, it was a sensational photo amongst very good company. there were many images of exceptional quality and it was a shame that there could only be one prize.


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## FAY (Oct 7, 2010)

It is entirely up to the judge to what he thought deserved to win. Tough luck for who didn't agree....


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## Royden (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks for the compliments! I didn't come here fishing for them, really just curious as to how the community was responding to the symposium and the competition.

There were many great shots in the shortlist. That's the reason I was curious as to what people's favorites are. The frilled photo shoot was one of the most difficult shoots I've ever done. It's very rewarding to have them on display.


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## silverback (Oct 7, 2010)

a very nice specimen you had for a model also


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## The Reptile Outlet (Oct 7, 2010)

Hi Royden... welcome to the forum and congratulations on your win. We'll be featuring your fabulous winning photo in the next issue (November) of our magazine, Scales & Tails Australia.

We'll be looking forward to catching up with you at the next Symposium in Sydney next year.

Cheers
Joy


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## Royden (Oct 8, 2010)

Thanks Joy!

How could I get my hands on a couple copies of November's Issue? I know the owner of the frilled would love a copy, as would I.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm sure that can easily be arranged Royden, either Joy or Neil will see this and sort it for you.

Welcome, by the way!

Jamie.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Oct 8, 2010)

Royden said:


> Thanks Joy!
> 
> How could I get my hands on a couple copies of November's Issue? I know the owner of the frilled would love a copy, as would I.



Royden
If you would like to email me at [email protected] with your details I'll send some across to you.

Cheers
Joy


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## Waterrat (Oct 8, 2010)

I couldn't help to notice that some people were uneasy about not knowing who organised the symposium - one person in particular (on another forum) seems really stresses about it, worrying that his cheque may have ended up in the wrong hands.

Lets look at it this way - if the Australian Museum, any university or business company announces they are staging a symposium or a conference, would you need to know the name of their CEO or the names of the people organising the event? I don't think so.

The *Australian Herpetological Symposium PTY/LTD* is a registered company - you can check here: ASIC Free Company Name Search ,so what's the big deal?

Relax, enjoy life and come along to the next year's gig.


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## mummabear (Oct 8, 2010)

I just wanted to add to the sentiments of the other attendees. I too attended and had a fabulous weekend. I so very much enjoyed meeting the array of herp lovers from all walk of life. It felt great to be a part of what will hopefully be a must attend yearly event for all those serious about herpetoculture and the love of all things reptile. I'm already looking forward to next years event. See you all in Sydney.


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## levis04 (Oct 8, 2010)

Waterrat how is this relevant to this forum?


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## Waterrat (Oct 8, 2010)

There were also some questions asked on this forum as to who are the organisers. I thought this would point them in the right direction.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 8, 2010)

Because it involves the topic! Anybody that pays for something like this out of his own pocket at the risk of it not being a success gets high marks in my book. A totally unselfish act, not like the other many self serving people I have come across in this hobby. I think some will always find fault in other peoples contributions to this industry. Other comments that I have found interesting has been in regards to the absence of herpetological speakers. If you wanted herpetologists then you should not be keeping reptiles. Herpetologists are usually against the keeping of reptiles in captivity. Some clearly don't realise what the differences are between herpetoculture and herpetology! Most could not stomach 2 solid days of herpetological presentations, people don't realise just how boring scientific presentations are.


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## SammySnakes (Oct 9, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Herpetologists are usually against the keeping of reptiles in captivity. Some clearly don't realise what the differences are between herpetoculture and herpetology!



This one is very much a falsey. I know many of the professional herpetologists around Australia and not one that I know is against the keeping of reptiles. I think you'll find many actually have 1 or 2 pet reptiles at home.

There generally are differences between the two, but occasional overlaps also. Herpetoculture is a term used for the captive keeping of reptiles, usually as a hobby or for the pet trade, whilst herpetology is studying the biology, ecology and conservation of reptiles.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 9, 2010)

Who says i dont know any herpetologists?!! There is a big difference between keeping one or two reptiles versus propagating them. How many of your herpetologist friends actually breed and sell their reptiles?


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

Bit off the subject, nonetheless, this is interesting subject.
As I see it, we have several distinct groups in this "reptile whatever". Pet owners, reptile keepers / breeders, herpetologists and gov. wildlife departments. The interactions and relationships are intriguing; the pet owners need the breeders to source their pets, the breeders need the herpetologists to access research results (facts!) and the herpetologists need the bureaucrats to get their research permits. It also goes the other way around; the bureaucrats don't need anybody because they know it all and think they'reare above all. Herpetologists need breeders to fill the gaps (e.g. data on reproductive biology of many species), and the breeders need the pet owners to offload their product. Somewhere between them are professional reptile keepers but they are only a handful of them and they're under the directions of their employers and their association; but many of them are also keepers / breeders in their own right.
If I was to rank the groups, I know where the bureaucrats would be.


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## CodeRed (Oct 9, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Bit off the subject, nonetheless, this is interesting subject.
> As I see it, we have several distinct groups in this "reptile whatever". Pet owners, reptile keepers / breeders, herpetologists and gov. wildlife departments. The interactions and relationships are intriguing; the pet owners need the breeders to source their pets, the breeders need the herpetologists to access research results (facts!) and the herpetologists need the bureaucrats to get their research permits. It also goes the other way around; the bureaucrats don't need anybody because they know it all and think they'reare above all. Herpetologists need breeders to fill the gaps (e.g. data on reproductive biology of many species), and the breeders need the pet owners to offload their product. Somewhere between them are professional reptile keepers but they are only a handful of them and they're under the directions of their employers and their association; but many of them are also keepers / breeders in their own right.
> If I was to rank the groups, I know where the bureaucrats would be.



Michael, you forgot poachers, smugglers and thieves


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

lol True, but they prefer to remain anonymous, we should respect that!


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## ihaveherps (Oct 9, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I couldn't help to notice that some people were uneasy about not knowing who organised the symposium - one person in particular (on another forum) seems really stresses about it, worrying that his cheque may have ended up in the wrong hands.
> 
> Lets look at it this way - if the Australian Museum, any university or business company announces they are staging a symposium or a conference, would you need to know the name of their CEO or the names of the people organising the event? I don't think so.
> 
> ...


 


CodeRed said:


> Michael, you forgot poachers, smugglers and thieves


 


Waterrat said:


> lol True, but they prefer to remain anonymous, we should respect that!


 
It may just be me... irony much? .... but I think you have summed it up well here fellas.... I would want to know, as I wont support shady characters in the hobby... not saying the entity behind this symposium is or isnt shady, though I would like to reserve my judgements and would have appreciated a more transparent system. I for one was slightly put off by after the organiser named, that they had it removed, as if they werent prepared to stand behind the product... even though they were prepared to comment in the thread from behind an internet handle. Maybe I am just old school, and believe that if you have a product you are selling, that an ethical person would have no qualms having their name attached to their business entity.

My 2 cents.... not knocking the Symposium itself, just understand the frustrations of some of the punters.


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

Ihaveherps, after a lifetime in the herp circles, I don't know too many participants that would qualify for the saint status, including some big names who are now in the forefront of herpetoculture, even in herpetology, not excluding myself. If we keep looking back and polarizing people by what we "have heard" about them (which is usually the case), we will never make a step forward. Like you, I am also from the old school but I have learned that it's better to look for the good that the evil - both are everywhere you look.


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## ihaveherps (Oct 9, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Ihaveherps, after a lifetime in the herp circles, I don't know too many participants that would qualify for the saint status, including some big names who are now in the forefront of herpetoculture, even in herpetology, not excluding myself. If we keep looking back and polarizing people by what we "have heard" about them (which is usually the case), we will never make a step forward. Like you, I am also from the old school but I have learned that it's better to look for the good that the evil - both are everywhere you look.


 
Michael, Im totally on board with your post, believing that every person has the right to make their own judgments, be right or wrong, though this isnt what Im debating. For the sake of the point at hand, lets divorce the person, from the act of aligning your name with your product/company.

The target audience, the punter, the herper, however small a percentage, expressed concern about paying to a face-less company, thats a fact... and as far as business sense (seeing as the point of the symposium being a registered business is flung around), the reply was poor. Rather than take on board the criticism, and at best opening the information to the public (obviously the absolute best outcome seeing as the nature of the concerns, and being raised in public forum), the company stance was to argue the right to stay un-named, and even remove the organisers name once it was bought to the publics attention. As an objective bystander, it was dismissive at the very least (price never ruled me out, work schedule did).

I am not attacking the symposium itself as i am sure it is an asset to the herp community, though as a business , the way the general public was handled, and concerns addressed, leaves alot to be required. To be honest, the post of yours above is testament to the shady foundations that, if we are to be honest, this entire herp hobby is founded on... but we dont always have to play in the shaddows.

Hopefully you can read this not as venomous, but as a third party observation, and take it on board, rather than dismiss as an attack.


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

I take it on board but I will refrain from relevant comments as I am not the best qualified / authorised person to do so.


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## ihaveherps (Oct 9, 2010)

Oh, and waterrat.... should have signed off with my name..... Simon, bought you a glass of wine at the last castle hill expo, maybe you remember... just so you dont assume Im hiding behind my username....


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

I must have had too many that night, I don't remember. Perhaps it's time for me to buy you one - at the next symposium in Sydney?

Cheers mate.


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## SammySnakes (Oct 9, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Who says i dont know any herpetologists?!! There is a big difference between keeping one or two reptiles versus propagating them. How many of your herpetologist friends actually breed and sell their reptiles?



I never said there are many herpetologists also breeding their herps on a large scale for sale. You stated that they are "against the keeping of reptiles in captivity". I merely pointed out that this is totally incorrect so that any newcomers to this site or the hobby would not get the wrong impression of professional herpetologists, who almost always support the keeping of reptiles in captivity.


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## ihaveherps (Oct 9, 2010)

SammySnakes said:


> I never said there are many herpetologists also breeding their herps on a large scale for sale. You stated that they are "against the keeping of reptiles in captivity". I merely pointed out that this is totally incorrect so that any newcomers to this site or the hobby would not get the wrong impression of professional herpetologists, who almost always support the keeping of reptiles in captivity.


 
Sammy, i think you will find that CP.com.au was well on the money. Steve Irwin, was on the record for being against people keeping reptiles as pets, as are a great majority of herpetologists.... and i fully understand where they are coming from to an extent. As has been previously addressed, dont confuse herpetology with herpetoculture.... oil and water, like an ensemble doing swan lake in a mine-field.


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

Simon, it needs to be understood that Steve Irwin was not a herpetologist (by any stretch of imagination) and was never accepted as such in the herpetological community. This is not to put s... on him, just a sheer fact.
In the past, many amateur herpers "used" professional herpetologists to get permits, etc., often with undesirable intentions. That alone put a gap between the two groups. However, oil and water sometimes fixes well, just need to add some catalyst.


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## ihaveherps (Oct 9, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Simon, it needs to be understood that Steve Irwin was not a herpetologist (by any stretch of imagination) and was never accepted as such in the herpetological community. This is not to put s... on him, just a sheer fact.
> In the past, many amateur herpers "used" professional herpetologists to get permits, etc., often with undesirable intentions. That alone put a gap between the two groups. However, oil and water sometimes fixes well, just need to add some catalyst.


 
with tongue firmly implanted in my cheek... a much lesser human being had the the term "broghammerus" instilled as a permenant fixture to our herp vocabulary. Not only has the species held, but now has both timorensis, and reticulatus in the fold.... ahhh the alure of being able to be held as a herpetologist.... such an exclusive field.

Again, im with you though....


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## SammySnakes (Oct 9, 2010)

As he was a reptile keeper, I would regard Steve Irwin as a herpetolculturalist moreso than a herpetologist. If he was against private keeping as suggested, it would make this opinion hypocritical. 
In regards to the tongue in cheek comment above, I really can't think of an appropriate term to group that type of herp enthusiast


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## Waterrat (Oct 9, 2010)

Lets not go down the S.I. road, it's a mine field and has nothing to do with this thread. What was this thread about???


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## silverback (Oct 9, 2010)

michael, i thought you would have thrown into the mix, herpetoculture 101, by de Vosjoli, "if you don't breed herps, by definition, you cannot be a herpetoculturist" - presentation #1 at the symposium.
herpetologists, herpetoculturists, pet herp keepers, herp dealers....we all share a related passion, and i am sure most have overlapping interests.


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## Allen_Repashy (Oct 9, 2010)

I just got my feet back on the ground over here and thought I would see if there was any talk about the Symposium on here. I first want to thank the organizers for the first class hospitality all of us Yanks received. We landed in Cairns and went strait from the Airport parking lot after 20+ hours of airtime, to a 15 hour rip to the tip of Cape York and the Iron Range. We had an awesome trip, and the early rains teased out a lot of herps for us, including two Chondros and a V. keithhornei (DOR) ... 

We originally planned a whole week up there, but after three days, saw all our target species, so decided to blast down to the Tablelands for a change of scenery and found more great stuff. I think our species count for the trip was more than 50. 

I think I can speak for all the presenters that we had an awesome time and hope that we get invited back for Sydney. We all made some great new friends and I really enjoyed the enthusiasm of the attendee's. Us speakers were a bit stressed about all the fuss and expectations on us to provide some useful information, and I hope those in attendance found the value they were looking for. 

I particularly enjoyed meeting people at the ice breaker, between talks, and into the night. It is exciting to see the hobby in Oz go from totally underground, to near mainstream in the 20 years I have been making trips. 

I look forward to Sydney and being a continued part of this great event. I wish we had a show in the US that was as well organized....

Allen Repashy


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## silverback (Oct 10, 2010)

for those of you who don't know Allen. you should familiarise yourself via www.repashy.com at risk of embarrassing him, we had a slight hiccup, when a speaker was unable to attend due to a family tragedy. when Allen got off the plane in Cairns, he gave me a thumb drive, and said " i'm sorry to hear about Craig's dad, i just threw this together for you if you want me to do the topic he was doing as well." i can guarantee that the presentation he gave on "the transition from hobby to business" will be the most sought after presentation when the video discs are available, the whole hobby/industry should see it. 

Allen epitomises professionalism, and diplomacy and is an ambassador for the entire herp community.

Thanks for throwing that together mate.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 10, 2010)

I think the DVD should only be made available to people that attended the Symposium! Why bother with the masses that can never see any good in anything? If there is one thing that I learned at this expo then it's that " It's OK to share! Local hobbyists are too scared to share any information these days as somebody else might be successful using their techniques. God forbid that somebody else could have success in their lives! I had a chat with Allen after the symposium and realised just what an innovator he is when it comes to the industry. They don't just breed reptiles, they create and develop products that help other people keep reptiles better. Share, share , share! That's what it's all about! I also learned that there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money out of doing something that you love! I also found it fascinating that Allen does not employ reptile keepers as they have always ended up stealing from him? Funny that!


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## bfg23 (Oct 10, 2010)

So only the people with 1300dollars spare are allowed to learn from what was presented at the symposium?


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## -Matt- (Oct 10, 2010)

That's a bit of a contradiction there CP.com.au, you say that only those that attended the symposium should be allowed to see the DVD would which would obviously be a great piece of educational material for the majority of the Australian herp community. So therefore you are withholding a lot of valuable knowledge purely because they did not have the priveledge of attending this event. But then you follow it up with a spiel on how sharing is paramount and it's ok to share your successes and knowledge with the rest of the community.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 10, 2010)

Sarcasm!!! In the first few lines. Sorry if it did not come accross that way.


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## Waterrat (Oct 10, 2010)

Settle down!
I can see both sides of the argument. I have been to many conferences in the past and it's that simple - if you don't attend, you miss out. In some conferences you get the chance to BUY the proceedings, which usually consist only of abstracts ... and that is all. Perhaps the DVD should be available to the wide community but not for 10 bucks. The line has to be drawn somewhere.


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## Slateman (Oct 10, 2010)

intellectual property have its price.Cost money to get it right and with out financial reward, nobody will go after proper research. Be realistic. Nothing is for free.
Person selling the product should always have right to dictate the price. This is the free world we live in.
Otherwise emigrate to North Korea and live in communist system. They all work for free there and I don't think they love it so much.


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## bfg23 (Oct 10, 2010)

A fee of one or two hundred dollars for the DVD seems OK to me. I would be happy to pay that kind of money if you guys are over the moon about what was presented.


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## Waterrat (Oct 10, 2010)

Good on you Slateman, piece of raw truth.
Cuba is not bad either, you get to smoke cigars and dance rumba to unplugged music .... the electricity goes off now and then.


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## Gecko :) (Oct 12, 2010)

I would have loved to make it, unfortunately I didnt know about it until not long before it was on which at that stage was way to hard to organise funds & flights etc, looking forward to hearing more details about the next one to be held in Sydney,.. hope there are some Gecko ppl at the next one 

Any news on the DVD & when it is expected it will be released? will it be sold as 1 set or sold as a bunch of individual dvd's?
I for one am very interested in getting one and would like more details on ordering a copy.


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## -Peter (Oct 12, 2010)

No, the world is not free. A small portion is. 
The seller doesn't dictate the price, the market dictates the price to some degree but usually its regulated because free market laissez fair capitalism has been proven not to work.


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## FAY (Oct 12, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> I also found it fascinating that Allen does not employ reptile keepers as they have always ended up stealing from him? Funny that!



What a strange thing to say. People who are thieves will be thieves no matter what their interest. I think Allen should get out more


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

Not really Fay - he made the point that those with a passion for reptiles are more likely to help themselves to desirable hatchies if they think they can get away with it. If you have no inherent interest, there is less temptation.

It's a bit like employing a morphine addict in a hospital pharmacy I guess...

Jamie.


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## -Peter (Oct 12, 2010)

I tend to agree with Fay. There are honest people in every walk of life and I have the pleasure of knowing quite a few.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

Ah well, Allen was speaking from experience, so I can reasonably expect he knows what he's talking about. He's been in the business for a while now... just as there are honest people in all walks of life, so it is that, sadly, there are dishonest people in all walks of life.

Allen's decision to employ non-herpers on his team was based solely on experiences he's had doing otherwise.

-Peter, do you think an 'honest' morphine addict would be suitably employed around the drug cabinets in a hospital pharmacy?

J.


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## -Peter (Oct 12, 2010)

What does a morhine addict have to do with reptile keeping. I ignored the example as it truly is not relevant to the arguement. One is driven by greed and desire to steal while a morphine addict from bodily need and physical addiction. A very stupid parallel. Surprised that you would consider it.


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## adderboy (Oct 12, 2010)

-Peter said:


> What does a morhine addict have to do with reptile keeping. I ignored the example as it truly is not relevant to the arguement. One is driven by greed and desire to steal while a morphine addict from bodily need and physical addiction. A very stupid parallel. Surprised that you would consider it.


 
I don't think the example was a bad one, actually. A herper with even slightly compromised ethics is far more likely to to do the wrong thing than someone who is relatively disinterested. Pythoninfinite was simply using an example. If you want to draw literal parallels I am sure we can all think of a few, but the point was well made. 

Regardless, Allen has the right to employ whoever he wishes, and if experience has taught him this is the way to go, then fair enough.


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## Waterrat (Oct 12, 2010)

If you burn you fingers not once but few times and still keep sticking them into a fire, you need a brain surgery, never mined the burned fingers.
Allen knows what he is doing, don't worry.


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## viperst (Oct 12, 2010)

*Reptile Symposium*

I dont normally type on the forums, but I also attended the Symposium. All I can say to those people that missed out is what ever you do dont miss out on next years. The speakers were top class and to mix with herpers from all over australia was great. Michael and Ricos talks were fantastic and as usual Michaels photos blew everyone away.
And for the negative few I really dont know how they orgainised it for the price, with a large group of overseas speakers, dinners, and held at the Cairns Casino. Well you dont have to be a brain surgeon to realise the organisers didnt put this on to make money.
This weekend definately took our hobby to a new level and next year is looking even bigger again.
We have already booked our seats.
See ya there.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

-Peter, I'm sorry if your brain can't make the parallel... have you heard of 'putting Dracula in charge of the Bloodbank'? Maybe that's an example you can grasp. It's the very same sort of reasoning behind the fact that state conservation 'authorities' deliberately don't select wildlife officers with an interest in keeping animals - they get too close to those they are supposed to be supervising and it compromises their enforcement role. We may think they would be ideal employees, but they won't perform as they are supposed to.

Passions (of all sorts) lead to compromises, and even basically good people can be subject to temptation under some circumstances. I'm not justifying it for a minute, and I'm glad you know heaps of lovely people -Peter (as I do too)... but I'm not in a business which depends on exclusive, rare high-end morphs to retain a commercial edge. Even one or two animals slipping between the cracks, whether stolen for money or passion, could compromise a breeding program which has taken years to put in place...

Adderboy is, in the long run, quite correct... it's Allen's business who he employs and why he employs who he does. His rationale is based on experience, and I can't argue with that (even if I did use a 'stupid' example... sorry for that...)

Jamie.


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## jeffspythons (Oct 12, 2010)

Jamie,
Never won an argument with a HR Manager so I gave up trying. You'll never win. It's a good thing for Allen that he's not bound by APS HR Doctrine.

To Allen I would say " It's good to be da King!" (Mel Brooks: History of the World Part 1)

Jeff


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## FAY (Oct 12, 2010)

I agree, it is Allen's choice who he wants to employ BUT I don't think that things like that need to be said.
It makes us all look yuk (yes, even you Jamie lol) when that shouldn't be the case.
No different to a company not wanting to employ any asians, fat people etc....but would never (hopefully) admit to that!


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

Now Jeff, I thought you were used to being a winner... my spies tell me you sing from the same hymn book as Tony Abbott... and he's a winner par excellence...

Yuri...


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## ihaveherps (Oct 12, 2010)

You guys dont learn.... again arguing a thinly veiled swipe at the plebs, in order to defend an elitist agenda.... I doubt Allens business sense and decisions are the issue at hand, and poor play on your part for dragging him into this.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

I think Allen's comments have been a bit more amplified than they need to have been Fay - I don't recall him making a big point of it at the time, it was more of an aside to those who were serious about retaining control over their (often significant) investments. I'm sure he wasn't casting a slur on all herpers at all, just suggesting ways to insulate a serious business from those who may weaken with temptation.

Even in this country, it's not unheard of for employees of zoos and wildlife parks to skive off eggs and babies before they're entered into the system, either for commercial gain or just because they can't resist. But that doesn't mean we're all tarred with the same brush. And don't forget - he wouldn't be selecting from a pool of individuals already known to him, and it's very hard to judge character at a job interview.

Jamie


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

ihaveherps said:


> You guys dont learn.... again arguing a thinly veiled swipe at the plebs, in order to defend an elitist agenda.... I doubt Allens business sense and decisions are the issue at hand, and poor play on your part for dragging him into this.



Oh dear... the sleeping monster awakens... I haven't a clue what you're talking about Simon.

J.


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## jeffspythons (Oct 12, 2010)

Just wondering if I'm an elitist like you Jamie? I just took you for a Bolshevik!

Never cease to be amazed by the proliferation of MBAs and Ethicists who inhabit the ether and are always prepared to analyze the motivation and meaning behind every word of people they wouldn't know if they bumped into in the street. Perhaps I should just accept the Capitalist Pig that lurks inside me? God knows I'd make a fortune out of my interest..................If I lived to 120 and electricity was free.

Wish I was half that smart.


Jees........................Lighten up!


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2010)

There are always a few sitting around the guillotine Jeff, knitting needles clacking joyfully as the blade falls!

I've heard that Capitalist Pig... it's a monster!

Anyway, I and others have dragged this thread WAY off track... we should stick to the original intent, and discuss the Symposium...

J.


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## Allen_Repashy (Oct 13, 2010)

FAY said:


> What a strange thing to say. People who are thieves will be thieves no matter what their interest. I think Allen should get out more



You would think so, wouldn't you....  ..... I found that the temptation is much greater for those who know what they are looking at. If you don't know how rare, or how much something is worth, you are less likely to think about it..... There are honest people everywhere too..... I have just found it too expensive to sort through the rest to find them 

UPDATE: ..... I replied to this post before I read the oh so many responses that others already made, so my post is pretty redundant. I just might add that my situation is one that I have so many herps that I can't keep track of them and must delegate a majority of the duties. I must also add that I have even had non herpers working for me that decided to help themselves...... but their lack of knowledge and understanding of the market quickly backfired when the walked into the local Herp shop to try and sell some geckos..... I immediately got a call from the shop owner while they stalled the poor guy long enough for me to walk up behind him while he was holding a box of my adult breeders. Just for fun, I took my Scanner and showed him that they all had chips in them too ... as well as the Police who showed up next.

In my Business talk, I said "Don't start a Herp Business unless it is something you would do for fun anyways, but Don't start a Herp Business unless you are ready for it to not be fun" .... this is a prime example of what can make it not fun.


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## silverback (Oct 13, 2010)

Allen_Repashy said:


> I immediately got a call from the shop owner while they stalled the poor guy long enough for me to walk up behind him while he was holding a box of my adult breeders. Just for fun, I took my Scanner and showed him that they all had chips in them too ... as well as the Police who showed up next.


 

hi 'gatekeeper' , i think they'd be far more concerned about you turning up than the police arriving  for those that don't know, allen trains mma.


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## Ramsayi (Oct 13, 2010)

Someone has a problem with handing out personal information along with a cheque to a nameless person who obviously has an interest in reptiles, of which some people can't see a problem, yet the very same people see an inherent problem with hiring someone that keeps reptiles to help look after their collection.What a funny world we live in.


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## Allen_Repashy (Oct 13, 2010)

Well, I am not at all talking about looking after a collection......... I am talking about working in a commercial breeding facility that contains 10,000 reptiles.


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2010)

maybe it's a funny world you live in Ramsay.


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 13, 2010)

It's sounds like I missed out on a great event this year... I have just been sitting here wondering what the average age bracket of attendees would have been? I'm not proud of but honest enough to admit that I felt that the price tag of seats at the Symposium surely must have limited some enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and keen *younger* members of the herpetoculture world, myself included. 

Not to rehash on a topic of old, because I know this has already been discussed, but surely this should be a major consideration? How else are those of us trying to "move up" in the herping world/industry if we're unable to meet the more experienced and learn from them?


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## jeffspythons (Oct 13, 2010)

All this talk about nameless people: *On an Internet Forum*???

Only person on this thread easily identifiable is Allen Rapashy ! Nothing to hide there.

Indeed the internet is a funny world, but maybe that's why it's called the "ether". Say whatever you want about any-one you want without ever meeting them and knowing the REAL person and the only one to stop you are the Mods. Mum always told me that if I didn't have something nice to say about people, I should say nothing. That doesn't apply to ALP voters Jamie.

Yes it truly is a funny world


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2010)

Kristy, I understand your sentiments but there are things in this world that are not accessible to everyone for one reason or another, including finances. I missed out on quite a few conferences for that very reason - I couldn't afford the costs involved (not just the registration fee) but it never occurred to me to blame the organisers for making it too expensive. I went to the Third World Herpetology Congress in 1997, the registration fee was a pittance but the trip , etc., cost me 3K. ...... I point is, I didn't have to go.

Oh, Jeff, my name is Michael Cermak


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 13, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Someone has a problem with handing out personal information along with a cheque to a nameless person who obviously has an interest in reptiles, of which some people can't see a problem, yet the very same people see an inherent problem with hiring someone that keeps reptiles to help look after their collection.What a funny world we live in.



That's a very obscure post Ramsayi - 'someone,' 'nameless person,' 'some people,' are you commenting on your issue with the perceived obscurity of the Symposium management, and somehow making a very tenuous link to Allen Repashy? The two are in no way connected. Allen was a polite and generous guest and speaker at the Symposium, nothing more, nothing less. 

I won't comment on this any more, because the issue that has somehow abraded a few members here is so minor, and deals with a brief comment made by a very experienced and cosmopolitan herp breeder, about some of his management practices, and he has taken the time to explain his reasons. He doesn't have to justify his reasons, and you'll never have to deal with him, so get over it.

Ramsayi, perhaps you do live in a funny world - perhaps you should get out more - maybe to the 2011 Australian Herpetological Symposium (it's almost at your front door next year...) 

Jamie.


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 13, 2010)

Michael, I don't believe there was any kind of "blame" mentioned or insinuated in my post? The cost of the conference is what it is. But, as a younger member of this hobby, with more limited finances than perhaps some of the "older crowd", it is frustrating to be excluded from the events when it is the younger crowd that would, arguably, benefit the most from it. 

Younger member/newbies get flamed constantly for asking questions and not knowing the answers to all the problems (and I don't just mean the threads entitled, "I've just bought a snake, can you tell me what it is and what to feed it?"). But, without mentors to turn to for advice, inevitably, a lot of mistakes can be made. There's also the issue of a lot of face being lost for asking questions on a public forum  

I, myself, am finding it difficult to move forward in this hobby without potentially putting my animals at risk because the information available is fairly basic and I haven't had the opportunity to meet or befriend any of the "big boys", who I'm sure many of whom were present at the Symposium. It would be fantastic to have a "mentor" to turn to for support, and great to be able to gather together with others that have the same passion and know more than I do to learn. At some stage, the information has to be passed onto the next lot of younger enthusiasts, but where, and when, and how often does the opportunity to do this present itself?

It would have been nice to this to have been a consideration in this and future Symposiums.


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 13, 2010)

All this said, I will be hoping to attend next year.


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2010)

Kristy, something being expensive (e.g. symposium) is the result of someone putting the price tag on it (e.g. the organisers), so not being happy with the price tag directly translates to the act of the organisers. At least that's how I see it. You weren't the only one who couldn't / didn't attend, if that's any consolation. 

Can we put this gripe behind us and look forward? It's becoming almost like the debates about prices.

I am sure when you return to Australia, you will meet plenty of experienced keepers who will be only happy to help you along. Bit hard to do while you're in Vietnam. 
It may sound pedantic but my advise to the "young enthusiasts" deprived of information is: - get off the forums, buy / borrow books, read, read and read, join herp clubs & societies and read some more. If it's too hard work, they are not real enthusiasts.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 13, 2010)

Kristy, thanks for the posts, and the thoughtful comments. I know that the costs were daunting for many potential attendees, and in the light of what we've seen in this country prior to this event, it would amount to a very expensive weekend indeed. 

I should make it clear that the comments I make here on APS are very much my personal impressions and opinions. I attended the Symposium as editor of Scales & Tails Magazine, and as such my costs were limited to fares and sundries. But... knowing what I know now, I can say that this would have to be a new benchmark for the industry/hobby in this country, and as long as the primary theme of the event (it will change every year) is of interest to you, it could be regarded as a real investment in your reptile future. The Symposium organisers spared no expense in getting the best speakers, providing an incredible venue, and ensuring that delegates got value for money.

I make the point that the entire weekend in Cairns was a lot more than just a herp talkfest. If you can look at it from the perspective of an entire weekend in an incredible place, in a very special venue, and possibly add a few more days to make it one of the most interesting holidays you could ever have. I've been to heaps of bird and reptile get-togethers in the past decades, but this was the most energised I've ever been.

I'm not sure where you're based when in Australia Kristy, but as long as you budget in advance to attend, you have heaps of time get the best fares into Sydney, and find suitable accomodation. Worth the effort in my opinion...

Michael is spot-on with his comments re: mentoring and learning. Forums are probably the worst place to pick up sound info on reptile husbandry - it's there, but dissolved in a lot of crap, so you need to know what the good stuff is before you can even find it. Books... books... books...

Jamie


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks for your feedback, Michael and Jamie. 

I realise that I am one of the only ones willing to speak up about this, and that I am potentially losing more face than making a valid, public point, which was not my intention. 

I have PM'd you both.

Cheers,
Kristy


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## The Reptile Outlet (Oct 13, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> It's sounds like I missed out on a great event this year... I have just been sitting here wondering what the average age bracket of attendees would have been? I'm not proud of but honest enough to admit that I felt that the price tag of seats at the Symposium surely must have limited some enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and keen *younger* members of the herpetoculture world, myself included.
> 
> Not to rehash on a topic of old, because I know this has already been discussed, but surely this should be a major consideration? How else are those of us trying to "move up" in the herping world/industry if we're unable to meet the more experienced and learn from them?


 
Hi Kristy, I understand what you are saying, but from personal experience of hosting our own Reptile Festival, which of course is on a smaller scale, I realise just how time consuming and expensive a process it is to bring this kind of an event together. I'm sure that the other organisers of Expos can also testify to this fact. It's not cheap to bring together even a smaller one day event, so I can't even imagine how expensive a project this was for the organisers of the Symposium, but I'm sure that they do appreciate that not everyone is going to be able to attend, and that in many instances it's going to be because of price. It's a shame, but it's a fact! 

It's great that you and many other young new keepers to the industry are so keen. Heck, I know what I'm like myself. I'm like a sponge and absolutely absorb any info that I can. My advice to all newcomers, whether they can make it to the Symposium or not, would be similar to Michael's. Read, read, read, every reptile book, every reptile magazine that you can get your hands on. There's information in them all year round. Ask questions from experienced keepers. Attend any of the Expos/Festivals that you can. These are different to the Symposium, but you'll have the opportunity to meet and chat with many of Australia's most respected keepers at these events too. I've found that in most cases they are more than happy to help the newcomer, or less experienced person. We just need to ask them!

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Joy


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## silverback (Oct 13, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> All this said, I will be hoping to attend next year.


 
we hope to see you there Kristy


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## levis04 (Oct 13, 2010)

Like i said before you get the gecko people and we will come, I should also say we would like to hear from the aussie gecko Gods this to much to ask?


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## silverback (Oct 13, 2010)

levis04 said:


> I should also say we would like to hear from the aussie gecko Gods




we are trying our hardest to bring them out, just waiting for them to sign on the dotted line.......keep watching


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

levis04 said:


> Like i said before you get the gecko people and we will come, I should also say we would like to hear from the aussie gecko Gods this to much to ask?



You are obviously in the gecko circles, why don't you ask the gecko Gods to submit papers? Or perhaps submit a paper yourself, wouldn't you like to be up there with the Gods? Is it too much to ask? LOL


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## bensen (Oct 14, 2010)

Nephrurus deleani, vertebralis, Strophurus elderi, Underwoodisaurus sphyrurus, would all fit the theme, but most people with experience with them probably come from europe. what about Nautilinus? please someone submit a paper on Nauti's.

shan


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 14, 2010)

There are Aussie's having good success with three out of four of those species.


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## siouxie (Oct 18, 2010)

levis04 said:


> I should also say we would like to hear from the aussie gecko Gods this to much to ask?


 
who dare i ask are you talking about? your answer will likely confirm a diagnosis of dyslexia.


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## jgjulander (Oct 23, 2010)

Just got back earlier this week from the symposium and a couple of weeks in Alice Springs. The Symposium was fantastic with many great speakers and lots of good information. Was a great group of people and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting so many great keepers. The organizers did a great job and I am sure next years will be even better. Looking forward to next year all ready.
Justin Julander


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 23, 2010)

Thanks Justin, it was a pleasure spending time with you & your dad. Look forward to seeing you in 12 months - will your dad be coming out again with you?

Jamie


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## levis04 (Oct 23, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> There are Aussie's having good success with three out of four of those species.



which ones Jonno?


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## levis04 (Oct 23, 2010)

siouxie said:


> who dare i ask are you talking about? your answer will likely confirm a diagnosis of dyslexia.


Rob Porter!


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## redbellybite (Oct 23, 2010)

BLOODYHELL .........READING HALF THIS THREAD IS LIKE BEING AT A PARENTS AND CITIZENS MEETING !!!!!(PnC).......all huffed n puffed BUT NO HOUSES BLOWN DOWN!

CONGRATS to all it sounded great obviously had a few kinks in the making but that can be sorted out before the next one ....AND SOUR GRAPES are in fine form with some of you ...as SHEILA would say "TUFF TITTIES" .....


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## silverback (Oct 23, 2010)

levis04 said:


> Like i said before you get the gecko people and we will come, I should also say we would like to hear from the aussie gecko Gods this to much to ask?


 
*Willi Henkel* will be speaking in Sydney 2011, and we will have his books on aussie geckos for sale and you can get them signed. there is no one more experienced or knowledgeable about aussie geckos on the planet.


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## siouxie (Oct 30, 2010)

where can we get more details about sydney 2011?????

from what i've heard, cairns was sensational. congratulations scales and tails for putting on a top shelf conference.


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## shellfisch (Oct 30, 2010)

siouxie said:


> where can we get more details about sydney 2011?????
> 
> from what i've heard, cairns was sensational. congratulations scales and tails for putting on a top shelf conference.



Scales & Tails have a few details in the next mag due out in a week or two


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 30, 2010)

Just let me correct the record - Scales & Tails is simply one of several major sponsors, providing advertising and a platform for promotion of these events. I attended solely in my capacity as editor of the mag. Whilst finishing my review of the Symposium last week, I was speaking with the organisers, and have been advised that the website for the 2011 Symposium event will be launched this weekend, Sunday I believe. There has been a problem with the first venue of choice, due to the fact that the weekend includes a public holiday, and harbour ferries provide only limited services on those days... so changes are being sought.

Jamie.


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## silverback (Oct 30, 2010)

there would be logistical problems with getting people to the taronga centre before a 10.00 am start because of the ferry timetable for those needing to use public transport. we are finalising a new venue in the next week, but it will be at one of the cbd hotels. we need an early start due to the large number of presentations included in next year's event. as soon as an alternate conference facility is booked, we will advertise the details on this site.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Oct 30, 2010)

I would encourage everyone who possibly can to try to make it for 2011. Cairns was sensational in all aspects. The speakers were absolutely first class and those of us who were there have formed some great new friendships with not only the speakers but other delegates as well. There's a great payment plan being offered by the Symposium organisers, so make sure to grab our November issue (will be out about 11th/12th November)to read about it, or watch for the details on the Symposium website. 
Cheers
Joy


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## bensen (Nov 7, 2010)

i was with the organiser's last night and there is going to be a presentation on the Grand Cayman Blue Iguana Recovery Program and satellite tracking wild herps in 2011.

this will be the greatest week-end of your life. check out scales and tails for details and read about how good the last one was. this is the must-go-to event on the calendar for the herp-obsessed. see you there.


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## siouxie (Nov 7, 2010)

levis04 said:


> Rob Porter!



i believe he will be speaking!


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