# Wild Crystal substrate



## PicklePants (Nov 16, 2011)

I've just been reading about the Wild Crystal substrate and have a few questions that you may be able to answer for me.

1. Does it stick to the animal like sand can? I'd like to use a more natural looking substrate in my tanks, but I don't like the mess that sand can make.

2. How long can you use it for before it needs to be changed?

3. Being water repellant, can you/how do you clean it?

4. Would you recommend it?

Thanks guys,
D.


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## jakawak (Nov 16, 2011)

i got some at the last festival and it is great.

1. it does stick a little if ur reptile has been in its water dish or is wet etc but not like to its entire body and as soon as ur reptile is dry the little bits fall off.

2. is ment to only need to be changed twice a year.

3. the water makes a little puddle ontop of the substrate and all u need is a paper towel and u dab it up, is so easy.

4. i recomend it as it is also able to be digested if the reptile eats it and it looks great!!!



boofy (bearded dragon) just came out his water bowl and see how only a little bit stuck to him. brings out to colours in them nicely =) i think it is the only stuff i will use from now on.


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## Waterrat (Nov 16, 2011)

Have you checked their web site? It's packed with information: [no links thanks ]


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## starr9 (Nov 16, 2011)

This looks cool!! I would like to give it a go but would like to here if anyone else has used it?! Any problems?!


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## jakawak (Nov 16, 2011)

starr9 said:


> This looks cool!! I would like to give it a go but would like to here if anyone else has used it?! Any problems?!



none so far, and alot better then non water resistant stuff


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## Matty_k (Nov 16, 2011)

I like the look of this stuff, might have to look into getting some.


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## Fiamma (Nov 16, 2011)

jakawak said:


> i got some at the last festival and it is great.
> 
> 1. it does stick a little if ur reptile has been in its water dish or is wet etc but not like to its entire body and as soon as ur reptile is dry the little bits fall off.
> 
> ...



Agree with jakawak, I won't use anything else. Usually stick to the natural colors but the last lot I mixed yellow with a little black to match the backing on my beardies new homes.

Deb


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## Spider178 (Nov 16, 2011)

I just got some at the festival last weekend, it has replaced the sand for my Woma. So far so good, took her a while to come out and have a dig.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Nov 16, 2011)

How much is it per kg?


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## jakawak (Nov 16, 2011)

5kg for $25


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Nov 16, 2011)

thats not bad at all! i though it would be lot more expensive. where are they selling it at?


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## Morgwynn (Nov 16, 2011)

I've been using it for just over 6 months for my woma. It's been good. It's supposed to be digestible but I put paper towels down before I feed him anyway. The only thing that's annoying about it is that when he sheds, he tends to break the skin into several pieces dragging it along the substrate and I have to pick up all the bits of shed he leaves all over the place.

It's super easy to clean up when they poo, or spill their water bowl. I need to change it for fresh stuff now, but I swear it looks as good now as it did the day it went in 6 months ago.


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## SteveNT (Nov 16, 2011)

What is it?

Are there domesticated crystals?

Is it granular? How can water pool if it's granular?

Can a bhp or woma burrow in it?

Why would you replace it and why only twice a year?

etc etc


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## Fiamma (Nov 16, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> What is it?
> 
> Are there domesticated crystals?
> 
> ...


They have a site that explains allllll


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## jakawak (Nov 16, 2011)

if u go to their website has lots of info on scientific stuff =)



SteveNT said:


> What is it?
> 
> Are there domesticated crystals?
> 
> ...


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## Spider178 (Nov 16, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> thats not bad at all! i though it would be lot more expensive. where are they selling it at?



The website lists stockists and you can also buy it directly from them.


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## Ricochet (Nov 16, 2011)

On their site it says it reduces odours - how does this work if it doesn't soak anything up????? 

I like the look of it and it shouldn't reduce the humidity up in the viv. I might have to give it a go.


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## Spider178 (Nov 16, 2011)

Ricochet said:


> On their site it says it reduces odours - how does this work if it doesn't soak anything up?????



It reduces the odours as the liquid does not stay in the substrate, everything is removed when you clean up.


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## Crystal..Discus (Nov 16, 2011)

Have it in two enclosures, and so far so good. My woma seems to love getting under it and digging through it.


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## Sutto82 (Nov 17, 2011)

I've been looking at getting it but can't decide on what size to get. 

From what I've seen here most have got the sand grade for their Woma's and BHP's, but do you use the same for beardies or is larger ok too?


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## Bel03 (Nov 17, 2011)

I love the look of it, but after my scare with sand in Matilda's eye......im a little hesitant about trying it......although im assuming if it doesnt get wet, it shouldnt stick to their eyes...... It reminds me of that Aqua Sand stuff though that my kids play with, that is fully submerged in water & its still dry! Very interesting stuff!


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## Deb64 (Nov 17, 2011)

Love the pics Josh  .... It will be available in Qld VERY SOON...... Looks awesome in enclosures and you can be very creative with it..... Share your pics for those of you who currently use it... We would love to see them


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## FAY (Nov 17, 2011)

There are a few different grades. Fine, medium coarse etc
We have our little varanus primordius on it. We have no issues with it.


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## Kimberlyann (Nov 17, 2011)

Can someone PM me the link to their website please


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## ryanm (Nov 17, 2011)

Kimberlyann said:


> Can someone PM me the link to their website please



Just Google "Wild Crystal Substrate", pretty obvious which site it is in the results


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## Kimberlyann (Nov 17, 2011)

ryanm said:


> Just Google "Wild Crystal Substrate", pretty obvious which site it is in the results



Thanks


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## miss2 (Nov 17, 2011)

im trying to decide what colours to order. for any of you out there that use it can you please post some pics of your colour schemes in your tanks?
im thinking of doing a mix of meduim charcol and natural fine.
thanks


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## jakawak (Nov 17, 2011)

miss2 said:


> im trying to decide what colours to order. for any of you out there that use it can you please post some pics of your colour schemes in your tanks?
> im thinking of doing a mix of meduim charcol and natural fine.
> thanks



i like the blue lol maybe with some yellow specs? i also have some pics on the first page


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## PicklePants (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys. I have had a look at the website, but from experience what they on say isn't always how it works/looks, so I thought I'd see what people on here had to say about it. I think I'll definitely consider getting some after christmas. 

Oh, and as a couple of you have said, pictures would be great!


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## Basstones (Nov 17, 2011)

Still haven't set it up the enclosure yet, but i've got three bags waiting at home (thanks for the show special!). Hardest bit was choosing the colours


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## NicG (Nov 17, 2011)

Since it's $25 for 5kg regardless of grade - fine/medium/coarse - that must mean the bags/boxes it comes in will be different sizes. Anyone know the respective volumes?


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## jakawak (Nov 17, 2011)

NicG said:


> Since it's $25 for 5kg regardless of grade - fine/medium/coarse - that must mean the bags/boxes it comes in will be different sizes. Anyone know the respective volumes?



same amount of rocks just diferent size rocks so all fits in same size bags just the sand one mite have a bit more air at the top of the bag. would everyone like me to take pics of all my tanks set up with the stuff??? and how much is left in my 3 bags?? (my snakes will be hiding atm in their hides tho so mite not be in the pics lol


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## JAS101 (Nov 17, 2011)

i just brought 3 bags of the medium to give it a try .


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## roobars (Nov 17, 2011)

I just bought 2 bags, 1 brown, 1 green - figured that was the more natural colours, dirt and grass


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## miss2 (Nov 17, 2011)

jakawak, would love you to please 

and anyone else, its hard to work out what the colours really look like and coz i have to get it freighted i want to choose my colours right the first time


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## jakawak (Nov 17, 2011)

miss2 said:


> jakawak, would love you to please



ok ill take some now =) mite even wake the snakes up to see how they look on it. (they mite not like it to much lol so mite not work)


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## NicG (Nov 17, 2011)

JAS101, I see that you're in Melbourne. Did you find a local distributor or buy it online? If the former, can you please tell me where? If the latter, how much was the delivery cost?


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## JAS101 (Nov 17, 2011)

NicG said:


> JAS101, I see that you're in Melbourne. Did you find a local distributor or buy it online? If the former, can you please tell me where? If the latter, how much was the delivery cost?


 the vic link on there site was dead , so i just went through them delivery was $25 for the 3 bags .


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## NicG (Nov 17, 2011)

They don't seem to have distributors for anywhere other than NSW at the moment ...


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## miss2 (Nov 17, 2011)

the ACT one is dead to


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## jakawak (Nov 17, 2011)

sorry bout boofys cage bein a bit messy he likes to run thru his vegies lol. they wernt very happy with me at all... boodoo was giving me evils out of his cage so i decided to just leave him be... hansel and gretel came out ok but gretel as normal decided to try and eat me for first 5 min then she calmed down a little... hansel decided he didnt even wanna wake up lol.... as u can see tho the stuff looks great i only got 3 5kg bags (only..) and their is still that much left after filling 3 and a half good size enclosures...boofy decided to turn black at me taking his picture maybe cause i turned his light off for the rest of the day =s he seems to do it alot.... looks cool wen he does it but im not to sure why they do it? any one know why they change colour?

p.s pics are off my iphone so isnt horrible but not the best either =)




















if u contact them they can supply ur local pet shop with the stuff will work out cheaper that way i guess cause u dont have to pay postage, so if u were to have a talk with ur pet shop mite work out ok =)


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## Deb64 (Nov 17, 2011)

NicG said:


> They don't seem to have distributors for anywhere other than NSW at the moment ...



They are currently organizing distributers in Qld and other states.... Send them an email asking if they can let you know when it will be available in your state


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## miss2 (Nov 18, 2011)

jakawak, what grade do you have for your beardie?


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## jakawak (Nov 18, 2011)

miss2 said:


> jakawak, what grade do you have for your beardie?



that is the medium grade


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## JAS101 (Nov 18, 2011)

jakawak said:


> that is the medium grade


 cool thats the same grade i got , cant wait for it to come .


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## Basstones (Nov 18, 2011)

Hope the distributors in QLD are set up soon, I realised I probably didn't buy enough of the medium coarseness to cover the entire enclosure (in the colour I want). Shall have to see if I can convince my local store to get some in so I can start using it. Otherwise, maybe there is some way to organise a group buy with members here? (assuming we are allowed to organise them on this forum)


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## Sutto82 (Nov 18, 2011)

I bought some tonight from the Macartur Herp Society meeting (1st time). Chris is a super nice bloke that loves a chat, he has been going around to all the Sydney region society's (and joining them) to sell and expand his business, so he'll probably be around your way if you attend a Sydney meeting. He said he's also trying hard to get it set up in each state and a lot more stores are enquiring about it recently. So he's feeling positive about the future. 

I got 2 bags of orange medium for my woma, so I'll set that up tomorrow and get some pics up.


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## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2011)

Pet City in QLD will be stocking it. Don't know when or how much though :\


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## Flaviruthless (Nov 19, 2011)

Crystal..Discus said:


> Pet City in QLD will be stocking it. Don't know when or how much though :\



Soon, should be most of it (if not, they'd be able to order it in) - can't give specifics as we haven't been informed.


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## hugsta (Nov 19, 2011)

starr9 said:


> This looks cool!! I would like to give it a go but would like to here if anyone else has used it?! Any problems?!



Here read this thread then for any posible problems.....
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...-crystal-substrate-snakes-169554/#post2079381


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## JAS101 (Nov 21, 2011)

well i recived my order today , it looks like i have enough for 3 enclosures [ enclosure is 3ft long x 2ft wide]
i took some pics .


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 21, 2011)

i cant believe every one's goin nutz for this stuff.....if i had that in my enclosures it would feel like i was walking into a preschool or kindergym every time i opened the herp room door,lol

spose the snakes could care less what colour their dirt is tho, as long as they get fed,haha


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## Sutto82 (Nov 21, 2011)

My woma loves it, as soon as I put him in it he started flicking it around and diving in it.


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## Crystal..Discus (Nov 27, 2011)

So my Woma loves her substrate. She goes "surfing" through it. Although the spotteds I have on pebbles don't seem to appreciate it.


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## snakes123 (Nov 27, 2011)

The guy just up my road is the one who designed and made this


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## Sutto82 (Nov 27, 2011)

My Woma loves it, I took these pics as soon as I put him in there..... no the place is a mess because he loves to dig around in it. And it's really easy to keep clean, a couple of sheets of paper towel and the mess is gone.


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## Deb64 (Nov 27, 2011)

It looks great Sutto... nice Woma too


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## billzey (Nov 28, 2011)

Sutto82 said:


> My Woma loves it, I took these pics as soon as I put him in there..... no the place is a mess because he loves to dig around in it. And it's really easy to keep clean, a couple of sheets of paper towel and the mess is gone.



which type of Woma is he?


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## -Peter (Nov 29, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Here read this thread then for any posible problems.....
> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...-crystal-substrate-snakes-169554/#post2079381



The difference I am told with the Wild Crystal product is that it doesn't contain marble which is what cause impaction.


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## jack (Nov 29, 2011)

-Peter said:


> The difference I am told with the Wild Crystal product is that it doesn't contain marble which is what cause impaction.



Marble is calcium carbonate. 
"Wild Crystal" is advertised as calcium carbonate. 
Someone told you something silly Peter.

Incidently, I note errors in grammar and spelling in the first sentence on their web site. Perhaps offputting to some potential customers?


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## geckodan (Nov 29, 2011)

-Peter said:


> The difference I am told with the Wild Crystal product is that it doesn't contain marble which is what cause impaction.



If I had a dollar for every safe, digestible substrate that is claimed to "not cause impaction" but then just goes off and does it anyway, I wouldn't have to work. The seller has very carefully worded that section. It does not say it will not cause impaction under the conditions under which impaction often occurs (poor feeding, hunger, dehydration, pica's, parasite infections etc. ). It clearly states that it should not cause impaction under "normal conditions" - a safe word to use. As with any 'digestible' substrate it all a matter of quantity vs ability to digest vs. size of animal vs. health of animal. Stuff up one of these and even fairy floss can cause impactions.


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## -Peter (Nov 29, 2011)

jack said:


> Marble is calcium carbonate.
> "Wild Crystal" is advertised as calcium carbonate.
> Someone told you something silly Peter.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## jack (Nov 29, 2011)

-Peter said:


> No, calcium carbonate is found in marble. Its a component.



calcium carbonate is a component of marble, just as water is a component of the stuff that comes from the kitchen tap... 

i stand by my gross simplification in regards to the chemistry of marble


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## snakes123 (Dec 27, 2011)

The man who designed this just dropped in with a duck from a sydney wildlife rescue. We talked and im getting some to try in the bearded dragon enclosure, and some for the shallow end of my geckos enclosure. If your looking thanks.


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## Renenet (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm curious about this stuff - but what do you do with it when you've finished with it?


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## Bredli_Girl80 (Feb 12, 2012)

I know it's been a bit since a posting but i just spoke to a guy who bought a 15kg bag for $20 at his pool shop but not sure where he is located


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## Crystal..Discus (Feb 17, 2012)

I'm going to revive this thread for a moment and give a review of Wild Crystal Substrate, after using it in some display enclosures... 

Pros
Looks fantastic at night under lighting: the subtle glitter effect adds a nice touch if you're into that type of look. (Pictured below)
Water resistant makes cleaning up a lot easier: Urine sits on top of the substrate, so all you have to do is soak it up with a paper towel.
Different grades means you can get a particular look - fine, medium, and pebble-like
Compatible with all types of heating. 
I don't think snake no.3 (a woma python) has had so much fun on a substrate before





Cons
This stuff begins to stink after about three months. And I mean, stink out a room kind of stink: Three animals on the fine grade created a smell akin to three-four days after feeding time. It absorbs smells rather easily, but doesn't dull it in any way. 
The colour runs and stains animals, stains clothing, stains skin: See picture below. (Used the same method for cleaning sand substrates I've used in the past.) 
Expensive: I purchased three bags at the Ipswich Expo for around $50. That's $100 a year on substrate, roughly $1.90 a week. 
[email protected]# Factor: The fine grade gets. EVERYWHERE. In sliding door tracks, in carpet, on your clothes, in water bowls... and it sticks. 
Not all animals enjoy it: My spotted python became agitated after being left on the medium substrate for a week. Changed her back to Kitty Crumble the week after, and she went back to her happy disposition. 

View attachment 238867


So, my conclusion is while it looks pretty, and does a great job for a month or two, it's just not great long term.


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## snakes123 (Feb 17, 2012)

As ive mentioned earlier in posts the guy who designs/makes this product gave me some to try on my snake, gecko and beardie tank.

I love it, i use the biggest grade on my bredli and it looks really good and holds the poo ontop, rather than sinks right through and goes all through the cage. Ive sprinkeled red and orange, fine grade through my knobbies enclosured and it looks great. I sprinkeled it over the sand to tine it, as the wild crystal will not hold a burrow.

And it looks good on the dregons enclosure.


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## viciousred (Feb 17, 2012)

I think I'll stick with sand and eucy mulch... Looks to artificial for my liking...


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## hugsta (Feb 17, 2012)

Nice to see an honest unbiased and constructive criticism Crystal..Discus. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.


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## Spider178 (Feb 17, 2012)

I have just thrown mine out and gone back to newspaper and Aspen snake bedding. Found that the poo was drying out and getting broken up before I even knew it was there, it would then get dispersed through the enclosure as the snake moved around. To hard to clean out and then started to stink a bit.


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## Heelssss (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah I've tried this, and it does smell-after a week even when u clean up no.1 & no.2. Looks pretty for a while but is very messy and I'll stick to the kritter crumble


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## Manda1032 (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm sceptical, Like some others have said it's a calcium carbonate. I've never known calcite to degrade (I sell gemstones... i know calcite) It's coloured with food colouring so technically the colour will bleed and fade. And in the next sentence they say it doesn't rot... so how can it degrade and pass thru the system? Marble, crushed coral, aragonite and calcite are known as calcium carbonate. It's the Calcium and carbon atoms that vary. I'm also very sceptical of the water repellent parts cause calcium carbonate is porus. But I'm willing to be proved wrong


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## Renenet (Feb 18, 2012)

Is there anyone who's had a good experience with it after using it for a couple of months or more?


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## mike83 (Feb 18, 2012)

Any one have issues with it getting in the rails on the enclosures I have 2 beardys that move around alot I used to use sand but always got it suck in the rails of the glass so I switched to kritters crumble but tend to need to change it pretty often to keep it clean.


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## Crystal..Discus (Feb 18, 2012)

Just realized the second picture doesn't work for some people :lol: Man I'm slack. 

Anyway, this was one wash....


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 18, 2012)

*The Chemistry Behind It*
Calcium carbonate is CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB]. When it crystallises, the molecules can arrange themselves in one of several ways – calcite, aragonite and vaterite The resulting crystals have a differing appearance but identical chemical composition. They are different physical forms of the same chemical substance. 

Calcium carbonate is the main constituent of the exoskeletons of many, if not most, marine invertebrates. From the microscopic foraminifera to molluscs (sea shells) to massive coral reefs and lots of others in between. Limestone (in all its many forms (excepting dolomite) and chalk are both primarily calcium carbonate. 

Crystalline minerals formed by deposition are usually more pure and incorporate very little of other chemical substances. Limestone and chalk rocks can vary more in their purity depending on what they have been formed from initially. Marble is formed from limestone that has recrystallised under intense heat and pressure. Most impurities are excluded in this process but not all, which accounts for the different types and appearance of marble, depending on where it is sourced.

The body produced hydrochloric acid (HCl) in the stomach to activate the digestive enzymes. This acid can also "dissolve" the hard parts of bone because it reacts with calcium carbonate, as follows...
2HCl + CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB] → CaCl[SUB]2[/SUB] + H[SUB]2[/SUB]O + CO[SUB]2[/SUB] 
[acid + base → salt + water + carbon dioxide] 
Calcium chloride is highly soluble, so what is not absorbed is easily passed through. 

While a calcium carbonate substrate is clearly digestible, as GeckoDan pointed out, there are other factors that impact (pardon the pun) on that. How much is ingested in relation to the size of the animal. The state of health of the animal, which will affect, amongst other things, its ability to produce digestive juices such as the acid. The state of hydration of the animal, which will affect lots of things, but in particular the volume of digestive juices it is capable of secreting.

Bottom line, if insufficient acid is released to react with all the substrate ingested, a percentage of it will continue through the digestive tract unchanged. Depending, this has the potential to cause problems.

I must say it sounds like something has been added to the surface of the crystals to make them hydrophobic (water repellant).

Blue

PS *Jack* was correct!


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## Manda1032 (Feb 18, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I must say it sounds like something has been added to the surface of the crystals to make them hydrophobic (water repellant).
> 
> Blue



Agreed, but they don't specify which is kinda scary


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## Crystal..Discus (Feb 18, 2012)

Blue, I'm going to agree. Without getting into too much detail, after a second wash and dry the substrate is no longer hydrophobic, and left a greasy feeling on my hands. I'll be doing a few more tests on it before throwing it out... 

:|

Edit: the second batch came out fine after being washed with just water.


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## Renenet (Feb 18, 2012)

That's a bit of a worry. I was going to try some of this stuff out, but now I'm not so sure. I use butcher's paper instead of newspaper because I'm concerned about what might be in the ink. If there's something added to the Wild Crystal, I wouldn't want to use that either unless it turns out to be a harmless substance. I wonder if the Wild Crystal person/people would like to respond to Crystal Discus's review and clarify what's added to the substrate while they're at it?


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## Heelssss (Feb 19, 2012)

It's just too expensive for substrate that is messy & smelly. Yes looks very pretty, actually my enclosure looked amazing when I had it in but SOOOOO messy. I'll Stick to the good old lining base of enclosure with butcher paper & topped with kritter crumble. My 5c worth!


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 19, 2012)

*Crystal..Discus*,
Thanks for your efforts to date and sharing your experiences and observations. Much appreciated.

My specific chemistry knowledge in this area is very limited. 
Whatever they have used will not, by its very nature, be water soluble.

There are a range of organic hydrophobic chemicals That are produced naturally through decomposition of organic compounds. That is why soil with a lot of old organic matter that has been allowed to dry out completely is hard to rewet. Yet add some detergent and it will wet straight away. The detergent effectively "dissolves" the hydrophobic chemicals the same way it helps to "dissolve" fat. Technically, it emulsifies them allowing water to then move them.

Whether it is organic or otherwise, it is apparent that the detergent is removing the hydrophobic coating. I must say, it sounds like it might be organic in origin if it is producing a greasy residue. But that is just an opinion.

Blue


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## Flaviruthless (Feb 19, 2012)

They won't share what is added for fear of others copying it, I have spoken to them personally about it and they're keeping quiet. They are confident that it does not harm the animal though and claim to have been using it in some of their enclosures for years.


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## Crystal..Discus (Feb 19, 2012)

Cheers for that Rahni 

To clarify, I'm not upset or really surprised that there is a "secret ingredient." I don't think I wasted money, and the idea was driven by the desire to improve life for our reptilian friends. My animals aren't sick or any worse for wear. My Woma python seems a little lost without something to burrow into (she's on newspaper for the time being.) However, Financially, I just can't afford it. Given that I can't wash and re-use, it doesn't provide the same longevity as other substrates I could use.


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## mad_at_arms (Feb 19, 2012)

Perhaps you could start selling tie dyed shopping bags to recoop costs


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 19, 2012)

Crystal..Discus said:


> ....However, Financially, I just can't afford it. Given that I can't wash and re-use, it doesn't provide the same longevity as other substrates I could use.


I would suggest soaking it in hot water in a bucket for 10 mins or so, then agitating it in the bucket to clean it. Tip of the dirty water and repeat until the water is clear. Tip it out on a bit of knitted shade cloth to dry and sit in the sun for a day. That will provide sterilising without having to use chemicals which might contain a solvent for the water-repellent chemical. That should make it re-useable. The only thing I can think of that might muck that up is staining due to bile in the faeces. Worth a try.

Blue


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## thesnakemaster (Feb 25, 2012)

SteveNT said:


> What is it?
> 
> Are there domesticated crystals?
> 
> ...


i have it its basicly calcium crystal substraite


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## Bredli_Girl80 (Apr 8, 2012)

I think it is great stuff and clean up is so easy now, my bredli thinks it's the bomb and I don't have the feeding problem yet as she eats hanging from her house or log.
It's calcium carbonate and it comes in 3 different grades, course, medium and then fine which is actually really good, not like sand at all


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## Trouble (Jul 3, 2012)

Okay, I have read through this thread and their website - I'm looking at ordering some (and just bumping up this thread)
Has anyone else bought it since Crystal..Discus' review? What do you think of it??


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## leamos (Jul 3, 2012)

Agreed, I was thinking about using it but after reading this thread i'm re thinking that now, it would be good to hear other long term users thoughts on the product


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