# Dog Angst



## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

Here's mine. I just took my little boy for a run. He likes it. Towards the end of our journey, as we were heading up a steep hill, seven labradors came running at me and my dog in a single pack. As they ran to check out my dog, they were acting in an aggressive manner. I held them at bay, I was ready to fight should they attack. Two of them in particular were acting aggressively, with deep grows and barking with hackles raised. The older one of these two made a few lunges at my dog, and would not stop when I shouted and pointed at it, holding it's gaze. As it lunged in at my dog the third time, I kicked it in the guts, flat footed but hard, of course. These dogs were not playing.

Then the owner came over to me. He threatened me with physical violence three time, whilst pushing his face into mine, and telling me that he would smash my face in and kill my dog (who was standig beside me wondering what the fuss was about :lol I was ready to snap, so I stayed calm and suggested the man cease threatening me, and that his dogs were off leash, mine was on the leash, and that they had crossed the road in a pack barking and intimidating my dog and myself. He insisted that he was going to harm me, but when I looked him in the eye and said "You're a coward, my old friend." he immediately crossed back over the road. His dogs had backed off but were still barking. He continued to menace me and tell me of his army experience as he left with his dogs. He also told me to go back to the slums from which I came. I live down the road from him 

So, other than having revenge fantasies, I now sit here and unload onto you poor souls, and hope for solace in similar tales of canine angst.

Once an ophidiophobe, now a labrophobe. 

PS. My dog is a well bred pitbull. He never even looked like responding aggressively to the labradors, even at the height of the attack, which is reasonable. He is well leash trained, however. Can you imagine the headlines "pitbull attacks seven labradors!"


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## ThatTyeGuy (Feb 7, 2010)

I think you reacted the exact way i would...he was in the wrong on so many levels.


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## euphorion (Feb 7, 2010)

good on you mate. i would be reporting that to your local council however, and i wouldnt be walking past that place without a decent stick and camera in hand in future. good luck to you, and hugs to your well behaved pooch! do you pics of him?


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Mr. TyeGuy, I am slowly feeling less angry as I work out that, indeed I didn't do anything wrong. Geez, I was even polite, kind of. I am glad the situation at least ended without me hurting him, or more so my dog getting stuck into his dogs, that would make a lot of noise, and look quite intense. The problem is, if someone kicked my dog, I'd quite possibly loose the plot like he did. But I'd also know that if my dog behaved aggressively like that, they'd deserve more than a kick in the guts. Oh, he was abusing me for having a savage dog too, claiming his "were labradors an wouldn't hurt anything". Dogs, who'd have 'em?!

It's hard to let one's ego down after being threatened like I just was. Insert foul language here.... (#%[email protected]& #%ck%$t needs a #^*ki^# blah blah blah).
That feels better. Thanks APS for your free counselling services


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## euphorion (Feb 7, 2010)

lol, easy to imagine how you feel mate. i've kicked a border collie in the guts when it tried to rip my dads little pooch apart, i didnt appologise to the owner, just picked up my dads dog and walked away. the owner wasnt exactly upset, she was stunned more than anything i guess.

so dont worry, you didnt do anything wrong and im sure alot of us would react in the same way. if my dogs have EVER shown aggression towards another dog (even if the other dog was asking for it) i am the first to whip them into line. having said that i go to a very understanding dog park and everyone understands the rules, if your pooch steps out of line other owners are allowed to step in and correct it if you dont.


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Shooshoo. I am considering the council approach, this guy was really aggressive, more so than his dogs! If he'd apologised I would have been all "Nah, you're OK mate, dogs are dogs! You better watch them running across roads like that though". But really, "I'm going to smash your head in etc" while thrusting a reddened face in yours, blaming you and calling your quiet dog savage is a little full-on. Well at least for me to deal with without getting angry. I'll try and dig up a pic of my dog.


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## cosmicwolf4 (Feb 7, 2010)

Cops and council mate. any aggressive dog should be reported. If you can get pics it's even better. You obviously didn't and because you have a pittie, there will be some difficulty in getting them to believe that a lab attacked yours, but stick with it and report it. Good luck


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## amy5189 (Feb 7, 2010)

labradors come in two types - very friendly or very aggressive. clearly you encountered the aggressive version! 
but i think you reacted the exact way i would have. i hate irresponsible pet owners who can't control their dogs and break the law by having them off leash. i would have found a great big stick and beat them and the owner up! lol


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## slim6y (Feb 7, 2010)

Buy or make a relatively cheap cattle prod - they fend off the dogs nicely and no mater what military experience you have acattle prod in the groin is pretty much the end of your days... Although you were acting in self defence and you were trying to stop a dog attacking you when you let leash the high voltage on the poor man....


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## Jasspa (Feb 7, 2010)

I don't think that there was anything wrong with what you did... protecting your dog and yourself from SEVEN loose dogs is not something you should be ashamed at.
I once went for a walk along the beach and there was a lady with 3 jack russells and a corgi off leashes (not on a dog beach) and all four dogs came running at me and started ripping my ankles to shreds. I am a bit of a pushover, and feeling like it would be disrespectful to the owner, I decided not to kick the dogs off, and waited until she called them away. She did not apologise, and I had to limp for 2km down the beach dripping with blood... thinking about it now, I had every reason to kick the **** out of the dogs to get them off me, because it is entirely the owners responsibility to make sure that if any pet dog is aggressive like that, they MUST NOT be off leashes.
Think about it, if a child gets mauled in the dog's own backyard, the dog will be put down - does that put it in perspective? You did absolutely nothing wrong!


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## KRONYK94 (Feb 7, 2010)

honestly anyone would of done what you did,

i would of taken my dog home and went looking for this guy and had (tea and scones)


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks for your moral support guys!
Hmm, cattle prod eh? I like the sound of "I was simply attempting to fend off the attacking dogs when the man got in the way."! 
Here's their little target. Damn fool dogs, seven of them is no match for one of him :lol: What a good boy he was, I'm really stoked he didn't fire up.


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## morgs202 (Feb 7, 2010)

Of course you did nothing wrong! And kudos for holding your temper, I dont know if I could have displayed that level of self control! I'd be looking to get police and council involved for sure though. Keep us all posted if there are any developements!


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## cosmicwolf4 (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm not a fan of pitties, but he's a beauty. They are beautiful looking dogs.
I don't agree with out of control animals (or owners) and he and the dogs should be reported. Your dog may not be so calm next time and you will be the one in trouble simply because of his breed, not because he was doing something wrong. It's always assumed the pittie is the aggressor, even when it's not the case.


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## morgs202 (Feb 7, 2010)

BTW: Damn that's a nice dog!


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## blackthorn (Feb 7, 2010)

I've always been concerned about coming across off leash dogs while walking my two girls. I've had an old german shephard have a go at them once, luckily the owner was nearby to grab him, he didn't appologise though.


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

cosmicwolf4 said:


> I'm not a fan of pitties, but he's a beauty. They are beautiful looking dogs.
> I don't agree with out of control animals (or owners) and he and the dogs should be reported. Your dog may not be so calm next time and you will be the one in trouble simply because of his breed, not because he was doing something wrong. It's always assumed the pittie is the aggressor, even when it's not the case.


Thanks all. Cosmic, I totally agree, like I said in my first post, "Pitbull attacks seven pet labradors". It's a real problem with owning the breed, yes they can be dog aggressive, as with any dog. They just do it better, so owners must be very sensitive to their dog's potential to win most dog fights! Me and him are both big sooks, and I didn't want him to get bitten. I also didn't want to have to stop the other dog's owner from trying to smash my face in on the gutter, as he so eloquently phrased it.


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## licky (Feb 7, 2010)

can someone help me with a dilema. i was "stalked" by a german shephard. he kept following me up my street growling and teeth shown i was freaked. i had my work knife in my pocket thinkin if he attacked I could stab it or something, would i be in trouble if that happened?


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## wiz-fiz (Feb 7, 2010)

good on ya mate, u did the right thing. at least u kicked the dog instead of hitting the person.


Will


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## Wild~Touch (Feb 7, 2010)

Google in: "menacing dogs" you will be surprised what you come up with.
The local government has laws to deal with this, it is no longer a local council matter
Hope this helps
Cheers
Sandee


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## ChrisZhang (Feb 7, 2010)

Is anyone else thinking " why on earth does he have 7 labradors?"


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## snakelvr (Feb 7, 2010)

Good On'ya. I don't think I'd be able to control my temper at someone going off at me like that! Everyone thinks Labs are gentle babies - so is ANY breed of dog if it's brought up right. Obviously these dogs weren't. He must be a right piece of work to have *#@^%! up the upbringing of not one, but seven dogs - & Labs at that! Go to the cops & get charges laid for him threatening you - bugger him! God people like that give me the s*^&s! Oh & a taser would be easier to hide than a big cattle prod!  Karma's a b*^%#!


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## cosmicwolf4 (Feb 7, 2010)

Get a spray bottle with ammonia in it, it soon stops the dog if it's sprayed in their face. You can get a 3% mix at chemist or supermarket, mix that with half water and a couple of squirts would disable a dog for a short time, you would also disable the owner for a while if he attacks you, but I don't know if you could be charged for that part. 
Labradors can be quite nasty, I have seen it in my job. I would rather face a rotty than an angry Lab to be honest. Labradors can be very unpredictable when they are angry, at least with rotties you know where you stand.


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 7, 2010)

I feel much better after reading all these posts! I have no idea what this guy is doing with 7 dogs, I thought 2 was the limit, but I will find out when I talk to the council I spose. I'll bump this up when I talk to the council. After chilling out a bit, I still can't believe how radically hostile this guy was, almost like he was on ice, but he looked like a middle-aged yuppy. I'm very glad me and my pooch came away unscathed  Another experience in anger management!


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## christo (Feb 9, 2010)

Nicely played sir! Hold your head high.

To my shame and embarrassment, my Kelpie is now petrified of little yappy dogs since a mini Jack Russell latched onto her. The fool of an owner never has it on a leash and it has attacked my dog a few times since we regularly cross paths while walking. The first few times it happened I politely asked her to keep it on a leash since it was not controllable. It got to the point where my dog will literally jump into my arms on sight of this thing. I have another Kelpie/Heeler cross who doesn't mind a bit of a scrap. After about the third attack I let the owner know that if she sees me walking my other dog (always on a leash) and her dog attacks, I wouldn't be stopping the ensuing smack-down. Needless to say she didn't learn her lesson until her little rat was smacked three shades of purple by my less timid dog. To her credit she didn't argue the point and I have not crossed paths with her since. Unfortunately my beautiful red Kelpie now cowers and shakes when yappy little "rats" walk past us. So much for the tough Aussie working dog. And she is scared of water.


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## snakelvr (Feb 9, 2010)

Oh & I meant the taser to be used on the owner ...... not the dogs!


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## thals (Feb 9, 2010)

Damn, one guy walking 7 labs?? Stupid idea to start with especially if they're of the nature you described! Some people are such morons honestly, and for what it's worth I too think you acted in an appropriate matter befitting the situation at hand! You're poor little boy, who's a stunner btw have a girl myself, has the best & most gentle temperament I've ever known in a dog. Raised responsibly they are IMHO one of the best breeds to have the pleasure of owning.


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## AMY22 (Feb 9, 2010)

Self defence is self defence. Aggression of any kind should not be tolerated, and it is not only particular breeds that can be aggressive. Any dog can act that way and it is NOT okay. It is the owners fault and responsibility for ANY kind of misbehaviour of their pet. Aggression if allowed will escalate further until someone gets hurt, while the owner all the while makes excuses. And 7 dogs is a complete disaster. Not only can someone get hurt, but killed and absolutely ripped to pieces. I am not 100% but I am sure there is a limit to how many dogs you can own before you need special permission, I think the limit is 3 (at least in SA). And to have 7 dogs not on leashes is ridiculous. 
I wish people would train their dogs properly, give your dog some manners and train it so that it LISTENS to you.


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## hallet (Feb 10, 2010)

the way you handled it was a reasonable response defending you and your dog as last resort.
but id advise that if you or anyone in similar situation again you do it the same not any further even if there in your face especially with larger breed dogs involved.
as any dog will defend its owner, so if the bloke had knocked you down, your dog would have lunged him then the comotion would have set his dogs onto yours then you would try and free your dog and high chance you be hurt in the melay no win situation. for anyone

espescially the numbers you were against as in a pack situation even the quite ones would get involved in the smallest way and your dog would have been hit by all sides and he would havent been able to fend them all off even if only 4 supposedly were biting he be surrounded by 7 and wouldnt know who to take out when being bitten by all sides in the frenzy.

though a dog of your calibre would still put up a good fight problem with the breed is if he went into lockjaw on one he would be smashed by the sheer numbers around him

plus as you know until there could be pure proof and or witnesses to verify your story he puts his dogs away that arent injured to bad and, as you know he then says that the pitty attacked his dogs (sterotyped) and you have to prove him wrong.

I advise that anyone who is confronted by an idiot to just walk away if you can as your dog can be considered as a weapon and now a days you can actually serve jail time if your dog severly injures a person if not fined heavily and (your family member) your dog euthanised by the council, surely your dog is worth more to you than a confronting a meathead.

i have worked with and trained dogs as a career for around 12 years and on occasion seen the pack mentality plus i know where you are coming from as i have and do own rottweillers and bullmastiffs and are occasionally sterotyped by the old saying " your dog is so big it will eat mine" i use to love that comment especially when they said it when i was out walking my 2 rottiweillers and my grandmothers mini poodle and as i always responded to them was they havent eaten him yet 

so as you did try and avoid the situation, if you cant try and tell the dogs to go home as alot of people who have wandering dogs use that command (youd be surprised)(instead of fixing ther fences and gates they say if you see him out just tell him to go home, especially in smaller towns and farm dogs) then dont ever run away as that will trigger the dogs natural predator prey response and if you own a small dog try not to pick it up though you want to your at least 70% higher chance of being injured yourself as the other dogs want to get to your dog and will if your holding it or not, and not that i condone abusing an animal but if your dog is being attacked using your foot is safer than reaching in with your hands to seperate unless you know what your doing as you will get bitten as a general rule accidentally and your face is very close and i was told once your hands and feet can be replaced your face cant. and if it happens on your own property by a stray dog wandering in onto your place if you have a hose nearby try that over the boot.

hope this helps

ps if he is on rural property he would be allowed that many dogs or if he is a registered breeder. general rule in most states is 2 dogs per property 3 on permit thru councils. rural areas 3 or more the more rural the less council cares on restriction as you are generally further between neighbours

and you have a nice looking dog but i am biased as i love big meathead dogs as they generally better behaved than smaller dogs as you know the potential they can have so you put in the training ,as smaller dogs generally are taught the basics sit and come and thats about it and arent socialised as they are lap dogs with the exception of dedicated owners (avoiding the flaming) but i say this as just recently the maltese breed was put on the dangerous breeds list for there rise in attacks on people and pitbulls were removed.

the only dogs i have ever been bitten by have been maltese multiple and 2 border collies but one of them charged and lunged at me when i raisedmy leg sideways to have a barrier between my face and his teeth no boot used and he bit my calf .

so final word unfortunately you ran into a meathead owner by the sounds of it ,whoose dogs have been the ones who have suffered, as they havent been given the adequate training and appropriate manners as you have done with your dog


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## grannieannie (Feb 10, 2010)

licky said:


> can someone help me with a dilema. i was "stalked" by a german shephard. he kept following me up my street growling and teeth shown i was freaked. i had my work knife in my pocket thinkin if he attacked I could stab it or something, would i be in trouble if that happened?



I'm quite sure it would be put down as self defense, even if you killed the dog....keep carrying your knife.


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## hallet (Feb 10, 2010)

grannieannie said:


> I'm quite sure it would be put down as self defense, even if you killed the dog....keep carrying your knife.


 
licky you would be wiser not to 

i would double check that keep carry your knife comment, that grannie suggested 

as just on today tonight or aca cant remember exactly there was a thing about a knife fighting school and they said its not illegal to learn how to defend yourself but it is illegal to carry a knife 

so even though its a work knife you are not allowed to carry knives from memory unless they are in a locked case as when chefs carry them.
dont know what you do for work chef ? or if its a boxknife packer?
but illegal to carry a knife , unless ina lockable case from memory 
plus unless you killed the shephard with one stab 50/50 chance you scare it off or going to really piss it off then you may be hurt more or slim chance you may be charged with animal cruelty but i doubt you would as self defence you would be in more trouble for carrying a knife in public over animal cruelty for self protection


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## hallet (Feb 10, 2010)

forgot to say grannie not disagreeing self defence comment but the fact of carrying the knife in public in the first place


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## adz73 (Feb 10, 2010)

Well done

Let the pound know.. The dogs (including the owner) sound like they are always on the loose. What happens when a little old lady is walking her poodle?

The pound does rounds on reported addresses, he will get sick of paying the bail out.

Its not the dogs fault... if allowed they will all do the pack thing. The owner is the one that needs the leash!


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## dtulip10 (Feb 10, 2010)

hey yeah you are in the right. i would use a cattle prod they sting like a bitch and teach most animals right from wrong. 
and yeah nice dog


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## moosenoose (Feb 10, 2010)

You've done the right thing Ophidiophobe, and handled it beautifully! Not a pleasant situation to find yourself in!


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## JoceyFisch (Feb 10, 2010)

grannieannie said:


> I'm quite sure it would be put down as self defense, even if you killed the dog....keep carrying your knife.


 
Licky.. I don't know if I would keep that knife on you at all times! I had a friend who was pulled over by police for a RBT and he had a stanley knife in his centre console (he had thrown it in there after work) and he was warned by police not to have it on him at any time other than walking into his place of work and walking back out as he could be done for "carrying a weapon" or something along those lines... 

I have a staffy and I walk her with a muzzle on which I do so that I can keep her under control (she gets overexcited when we walk but with the muzzle on she calms down) but if another dog attacks her and I have to let go of the leash she's in trouble coz she wouldn't be able to fight back.. so now when I see an off leash dog I look for the biggest stick I can find! Just yesterday I shoo'd 2 little away that were following us.. no collar.. nothing! 

Ophidiophobe - Good on you for standing your ground with the owner.. what a douche that guy is! I'd be reporting him to the local council.. whether or not he can legally have 7 dogs is an issue.. but also not having them contained in a secure yard is another issue.. what if there had been young kids around...!!!


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## Ophidiophobe (Feb 10, 2010)

Thanks all. I reckon these dogs that attacked me are probably very nice when in a different situation, perhaps the owner is too  These dogs were simply, in their terms, asking my dog if he had permission to walk through their territory. I don't think they were "dangerous dogs" so to speak. It is more the response of the owner to his dog's misbehaviour that concerns me. My dog is no angel, but I realise this and keep him mastered. Although he was a little angel the other day during the lab incident, which is always nice  While the angry man was about to assault me, my hopeless killer pitbull was standing there wagging his bloody tail!

I have found out where Mr. Angry the Lab Owner lives, in the next few days I will have acquired his name and other details. Patience is the key. Once I know more about him I will be in a better position to make a complaint that the council can act on. Otherwise I would just be whinging about some random dogs, and the council wouldn't be able to pay him a visit.


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## snakelvr (Feb 10, 2010)

Good on you. Just don't leave it too long to make the complaint(s). They may question you as to why it took you so long to make a complaint. Good luck, hope it all goes well & that bugger gets what's coming (or should be coming) to him.


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## JoceyFisch (Feb 10, 2010)

JoceyFisch said:


> I have a staffy and I walk her with a muzzle on which I do so that I can keep her under control (she gets overexcited when we walk but with the muzzle on she calms down) but if another dog attacks her and I have to let go of the leash she's in trouble coz she wouldn't be able to fight back.. so now when I see an off leash dog I look for the biggest stick I can find! Just yesterday I shoo'd 2 little away that were following us.. no collar.. nothing!


 
And by muzzle I actually meant a Halti.... I couldn't edit my post for some reason?!?!?


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## AMY22 (Feb 10, 2010)

JoceyFisch said:


> And by muzzle I actually meant a Halti.... I couldn't edit my post for some reason?!?!?


 
Once someone else has commented I find I can’t edit my posts.
With training your staffy (because I was in a rush to type my PM to you the other day I think I missed some things I could have told you), did you need any training tips to help with her aggression?


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## JoceyFisch (Feb 10, 2010)

AMY22 said:


> Once someone else has commented I find I can’t edit my posts.
> With training your staffy (because I was in a rush to type my PM to you the other day I think I missed some things I could have told you), did you need any training tips to help with her aggression?


 
I'm open to any advice! PM me


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## Dar1stheory (Feb 10, 2010)

CAPTAIN OBJECTIVE PERSPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECTIVE MAAAAAAAAAAAN! 

So, just wanted to throw out a few potential scenario's...

My brother in law has a Bull Arab/Mastiff, he's 10 months old, and size of a shetland pony ..... maybe taller...

Costa got bailed up at a young age whilst in his "fear stage", and since then has behaved aggressively towards other dogs as a defence mechanism, hurt before you are hurt... and when a 50+kg pup (with a head the size of a cows) goes postal, it's a pretty scary situation... (My BIL is taking him to regular behaviour therapist sessions as a result, spending HEAPS out of his own pocket because another irresponsible owner let _his_ dog run free on the streets)

He's sweet as around all of our family dogs, and has an otherwise amazingly gentle nature... 

It's possible that this lab has had a similar experience, perhaps even with a dog of the same breed as yours! Of course this doesn't excuse the owner from playing little-BIG-man in the street with you... 

Another thought is that you said the lab was in a group. Funny thing about dogs, there is very little if any difference between "wild" dogs and domestic dogs as far as how their minds work. They adapt to the situation differently, but the psychological processes are the same. 

When a pack of dogs get together, one will exert it's dominance through energy, and aggression if necessary, and will assume the role of the pack leader. When this pack comes across a new dog, the leader will act on the energy that it picks up on. This may have been the energy from the fear of its pack members upon seeing your dog... Might have been your own energy and body language, when you anticipate the worst in fear, your body language, and even your scent changes, and the dog will see and smell that... He might have been expecting that your dog was potentially going to join the pack, and wished to exert his dominance early to ensure that your dog knew his place... (Though your dog may be capable of tearing the lab to bits, it may actually submit to the dominant lab...) 



Not trying to justify the behaviour as such, just hope to open a few eyes to some otherwise potentially unknown factors...


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## AMY22 (Feb 10, 2010)

JoceyFisch said:


> I'm open to any advice! PM me


 
I’m on my way!


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