# acrylic render Vs grout



## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

G'day, I'm in the process of a diy (first timer ) for my jungle, at the cutting out of foam stage and am almost ready to start covering it with tile grout or acrylic render. Have tried a bit of grout, think I may have made it slightly to thin, but don't really like it, takes a while to dry/set and I'm wondering if the acrylic render is a better option, and is spakfilla okay to use to fill in little holes in the cut out foam.... any info would be great


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## smileysnake (Jun 3, 2013)

gday mate i use the render i like how it dries rough and looks more natural,but other people will use grout and say its just as good so its up to you what you like.be sure to post pics of progress


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 3, 2013)

I have found render alot easier to use then grout, i wont go back. Mixes alot easier and applies to foam with less dramas then grout (doesnt need to be thinned as much).


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

smileysnake said:


> gday mate i use the render i like how it dries rough and looks more natural,but other people will use grout and say its just as good so its up to you what you like.be sure to post pics of progress


iCool thanx.. is the render fast drying or does it take as long as grout, and do u think there's a difference in the way they hold heat? I will as soon as I find the right cable for the camera


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> I have found render alot easier to use then grout, i wont go back. Mixes alot easier and applies to foam with less dramas then grout (doesnt need to be thinned as much).
> 
> Rick


okay so u have tried out both  which of the two will not fill in too much of the detail I have so time consumingly cut out, as I understand, one needs several coats at least ..haha


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 3, 2013)

wildthings said:


> okay so u have tried out both  which of the two will not fill in too much of the detail I have so time consumingly cut out, as I understand, one needs several coats at least ..haha



Render is alot easier to get on thinner, then can add detail using end of a paint brush. The foam is really only their for a base then add texture/detail into the render as it dries.

I used a 20kg bag on my 1200x700 background.





First coat, added bondcrete.




Final coat before sealer.


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Render is alot easier to get on thinner, then can add detail using end of a paint brush. The foam is really only their for a base then add texture/detail into the render as it dries.
> 
> I used a 20kg bag on my 1200x700 background.
> 
> ...


holy cow 20kg, mine looks around the same size, have to fine the cable, looks really cool btw


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

*still some more polystyrene rocks to put in *


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## smileysnake (Jun 3, 2013)

not sure about the holding heat better but i presume the render would.and yeah easier to apply and better texture i use a sponge sometimes to get more texture i also use a soldering iron on the foam to get a bit more detail just mix up render thinner more coats needed but looks great when finished


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

smileysnake said:


> not sure about the holding heat better but i presume the render would.and yeah easier to apply and better texture i use a sponge sometimes to get more texture i also use a soldering iron on the foam to get a bit more detail just mix up render thinner more coats needed but looks great when finished


Thanx so much, I thought the little bit of grout that I tried out seems very cold and seems like it would prefer to hold the cold too haha and yes I know he's a reptile and doesnt mind the cold now and then haha.


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 3, 2013)

Render also set alot quicker then grout i have found, around 3-6hrs for render depending on how cold it is.


Rick


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## Bart70 (Jun 3, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Render also set alot quicker then grout i have found, around 3-6hrs for render depending on how cold it is.
> 
> 
> Rick



Rick,

In your pics above...One pic is after first coat of render, last pic is after last coat before sealing.

How did you colour your final coat?....Did you add oxide to the render or did you paint?

I am guessing that you used plain render without any colour until you got near your final coat.....How many coats of render did you end up doing?

You used a 20kg bag.....I am guessing that your wall ended up weighing 20kg?

Did you use a backing board of any type? I am thinking of using either 3mm or 6mm craftwood (sealed) as a baking board to work on, then affix it to the back of the enclosure when completed.

Sorry about all the questions......Just thinking of embarking on a wall building exercise and if I do I have 3 large walls to build!


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 3, 2013)

Bart70 said:


> Rick,
> 
> In your pics above...One pic is after first coat of render, last pic is after last coat before sealing.
> 
> ...



Yep, first pic is first coat with bondcrete and second is final before sealer.

Final colour was using oxide, im hopeless at painting. I alternated coloured and non coloured render so i knew what parts i had covered and what wasnt.

I didnt weigh it but it would have to be around 20-25kgs.

No backboard at all as i used a 20mm foam sheet and build up off of that, after a few layers it was strong enough to hold shape without cracking.


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 3, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Yep, first pic is first coat with bondcrete and second is final before sealer.
> 
> Final colour was using oxide, im hopeless at painting. I alternated coloured and non coloured render so i knew what parts i had covered and what wasnt.
> 
> ...


just wondering Rick, how much difference is there using bondcrete, is it necessary?


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 3, 2013)

wildthings said:


> just wondering Rick, how much difference is there using bondcrete, is it necessary?



Hasnt tried render without bondcrete but it is used to help with adhesion to the foam. Could always trial it on some foam prior to committing to not using on your background, i mix it 50/50 water/bondcrete to get a cream (thickened, not whipped) like consitancy.


Rick


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## Bart70 (Jun 3, 2013)

Rick - Thanks for the reply. I have made a couple of 'rock ledges' using coloured grout and did as you suggested and changed the colour slightly by mixing coloured grout in between coats. I did my 'weathering' by flicking dark grout onto the wet terracotta grout, then after it set, using some light terracotta brush strokes to lighten the exposed surfaces to the terracotta colour - giving the 'hollows' a dark weathered look - came up great.

Wildthings - I have done concrete rendering using Bondcrete (bought in 25 litre pails) and I tell you it will make any masonry product strong as nails, and help with sealing. If I dropped any 'blobs' of render while rendering a wall, and did not clean them up before they set, it would be a very determined effort with a hammer and chisel to remove it from a concrete path!!

Bondcrete in the mix definitely makes for a harder and stronger end product.


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## wildthings (Jun 5, 2013)

hmm okay will have a try out on some of the left over foam, and do you mean the polystyrene foam of the expanda foam ?


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## Bart70 (Jun 5, 2013)

wildthings said:


> hmm okay will have a try out on some of the left over foam, and do you mean the polystyrene foam of the expanda foam ?



I have used it on both - it will help with adhesion and strengthen the render. I don't go as far as 50/50 - I don't measure it as such but a couple of tablespoons of Bondcrete to about half a glass of water (My jobs with rock walls/ledges thus far have been small hence the small amounts I mix).


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## wildthings (Jun 5, 2013)

thanx bart70 thats want I wanted to hear haha, don't want my jungle to break things especially his neck :/.. didn't really have a clue what I was doing when I started this project, so glad I found this site... so so helpful hahaha hopefully now it won't be a disaster...


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## Sparky85 (Jun 5, 2013)

Just out of interest, what are the dimensions of your background? How many coats did you add?
A couple tips for painting your background with acrylic paint is to use a sponge to lightly dab paint onto the rocks. This can help to highlight the detail, especially if you have couloured your render/grout. Also using a paint brush and wiping 90% of the paint off on some newspaper. If you use a lighter colour or tone, this can help to highlight areas of rock.
Also as a side note, bondcrete is essentially just glorified pva glue. Render is pretty much concrete with pva glue added. Save a litle money and just buy a bag of concrete and a bottle of pva glue. I have found grout to be pretty good to use because of how thin you can make it. if you build up your layers slowly, as it dries, use a paint brush to puncture the surface by dabbing the paint brush all over your background. Helps to rough up the surface and takes away the unnatural smooth look. Ill post a few pics of my progress once i get home from working away.


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 5, 2013)

Sparky85 said:


> Also as a side note, bondcrete is essentially just glorified pva glue. Render is pretty much concrete with pva glue added. Save a litle money and just buy a bag of concrete and a bottle of pva glue.



Render at bunnings is $12, so not very expensive. 

I found bondcrete to actually be cheaper the pva glue, this is why i have reccomended it instead of pva. Im pretty sure they are 100% the same thing, exactly the same smell and dry rate.


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanx lots Rick, I looked into the bondcrete, seems very versatile stuff and not very expensive...my cabinet is 1600H x 1490W and 760D and the foam structure takes up about a quarter of the internal space will post some pics..


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

Here they are.. assuming I can figger out how to upload more than one heheView attachment 290899
View attachment 290900


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 7, 2013)

Pics didnt work for me.


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Pics didnt work for me.
> 
> 
> Rick


Bugger shall try again View attachment 290901

View attachment 290902


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

it did the same thing again?


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

*enclosure pics*


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 7, 2013)

Looks good mate.


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Looks good mate.
> 
> 
> Rick


Yay haha not much of a techy... pretty much ready to start rendering just gotta cover those huge vents at the back with something :/


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## Bart70 (Jun 8, 2013)

wildthings said:


> View attachment 290903
> View attachment 290904



That looks great!

Would you mind sharing how you got that look with the foam?......Looks like you doing some sort of 'in situ' moulding with expanding foam?


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## mudgudgeon (Jun 8, 2013)

Sparky85 said:


> , bondcrete is essentially just glorified pva glue. Render is pretty much concrete with pva glue added. Save a litle money and just buy a bag of concrete and a bottle of pva glue.




Umm, no. Render and concrete are NOT the same, unless you want to render your fake rock with chunks of gravel all through the mix.


You could buy premised sand and cement and add PVA, but acrylic render is SUPER cheap, and already mixed, just add water.
By the time you buy sand&cement and PVA, it will be more $$400 than buying render.


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## wildthings (Jun 9, 2013)

Bart70 said:


> That looks great!
> 
> Would you mind sharing how you got that look with the foam?......Looks like you doing some sort of 'in situ' moulding with expanding foam?


Yep, thats basically it,haha.. I don't have a space where I can work that's animal free :/ so had to do it inside the cabinet. Glued some polystyrene to the area that I wanted to work with, drew in where I wanted to put stuff and then put together some polystyrene fruit boxes and glued them to the back piece and filled in the gaps and covered the rest with the expanda foam and have just been cutting out to a rock looking kinda thing , probably a bit of a waste as far as the amount of foam I've cut away, but I don't think I would have got the same look,.. boy it'll take very careful and thorough work tho to get in every where with the render, have been thinking about this for the past four or so days now and have been trying to cut down as much the areas that had the deep crevices haha, will know better next time


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## J-A-X (Jun 9, 2013)

Good work so far. As for your concerns about getting the render into the cracks, just make your first layer thin, lay the tank on its back and either gently pour or brush the tender on. 

Foam is for giving the basic shape of what you want, you carve the detail into the render as you add more layers (finest detail goes on the last layer )


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## wildthings (Jun 9, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> Good work so far. As for your concerns about getting the render into the cracks, just make your first layer thin, lay the tank on its back and either gently pour or brush the tender on.
> 
> Foam is for giving the basic shape of what you want, you carve the detail into the render as you add more layers (finest detail goes on the last layer )


Thanx lots, so thin enough to pour, okay.. how much bondcrete to the acrylic render.. ratio approx


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## wildthings (Jun 10, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Hasnt tried render without bondcrete but it is used to help with adhesion to the foam. Could always trial it on some foam prior to committing to not using on your background, i mix it 50/50 water/bondcrete to get a cream (thickened, not whipped) like consitancy.
> 
> 
> Rick


hey Rick, just wondering, do you ever just use bondcrete for your first layer on the foam, have been reading other diy's on various forums and some use the bondcrete as the first layer then add the bondcrete to the render for the second and third coats, also there seems to be a couple of different ways to put the plants in, I was thinking of placing markers in the foam and rendering around them so I have holes to stick the plant stems into and then silicone them in ? What do you think, haha aside from lots of dumb questions


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## lanyandkim (Jun 10, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Hasnt tried render without bondcrete but it is used to help with adhesion to the foam. Could always trial it on some foam prior to committing to not using on your background, i mix it 50/50 water/bondcrete to get a cream (thickened, not whipped) like consitancy.
> 
> 
> Rick


I use expanding foam from bunnings $14 per can x2 cans for a backing wall 1200x700 total weight of wall 3kg solid and safe for all my reptiles lizards/snakes and turtles. i water proof it for my fish tanks and waterfalls as well. i love it. good old bunnings


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## wildthings (Jun 10, 2013)

lanyandkim said:


> I use expanding foam from bunnings $14 per can x2 cans for a backing wall 1200x700 total weight of wall 3kg solid and safe for all my reptiles lizards/snakes and turtles. i water proof it for my fish tanks and waterfalls as well. i love it. good old bunnings


It's the coolest stuff and I doubt I could have got the look I wanted any other way, I'm glad I went with the expanding foam


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## wildthings (Jun 10, 2013)

I have acrylic render in my hair :/ so far so good, was dreading the rendering a bit since I have never done it before, but I think it's all good


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

Pics, from foam etc to first coat of acrylic render with bondcreteView attachment 291083
added View attachment 291084
View attachment 291085
View attachment 291086


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## Becca-Marie (Jun 11, 2013)

Cant see pics 

Sent from my LG-P690f using Tapatalk 2


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

Becca-Marie said:


> Cant see pics
> 
> Sent from my LG-P690f using Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

trying againView attachment 291109
View attachment 291110
View attachment 291111


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## J-A-X (Jun 11, 2013)

Good thinking wrapping the branch in plastic


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## mudgudgeon (Jun 11, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> Good thinking wrapping the branch in plastic



very clever getting the stanley knife, the offcuts and the wheelie bin to hover on the ceiling too :lol::lol:


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## J-A-X (Jun 11, 2013)

I thought that was normal ! Or am I the only one who renders while standing on my head ? LOL


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> Good thinking wrapping the branch in plastic


Yep, tried not to make to much mess but didn't succeed haha, I put masking tape all round too, very glad I did that


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

mudgudgeon said:


> very clever getting the stanley knife, the offcuts and the wheelie bin to hover on the ceiling too :lol::lol:


Hehehe was wondering if anybody would notice the weird in that pic


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## wildthings (Jun 11, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> I thought that was normal ! Or am I the only one who renders while standing on my head ? LOL


haha hubby thinks I'm mad, every time he comes to inspect my work, it's in a different position, upside down, on it's back and some times right way up lol


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## alex92 (Jun 11, 2013)

i'd straight up say go for render, it's specifically made to coat surfaces as a finish whereas grout will possibly make a smoother finish due to incredibly fine sand in it is made to fill gaps between tiles, render would have to work best


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## wildthings (Jun 12, 2013)

alex92 said:


> i'd straight up say go for render, it's specifically made to coat surfaces as a finish whereas grout will possibly make a smoother finish due to incredibly fine sand in it is made to fill gaps between tiles, render would have to work best


Could you put one over the other, like grout over the render for a smoother finish?


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## alex92 (Jun 12, 2013)

A smoother finish might come from adding a little more cement powder to the mix but typically it comes down to how exactly you smooth it off, concrete can come up slippery smooth from a trowel finish and that ****s mixed with stones and coarse sand, I don't know how smooth you want the finish but if it's mixed to a good consistency using a small smooth metal surface should ensure it comes up nicely, also I'm sure there are different grades of render you can buy from coarse to fine. Think of it like bog if you bog a dent on a car, you use the fine stuff for a smooth finish


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## wildthings (Jun 12, 2013)

alex92 said:


> A smoother finish might come from adding a little more cement powder to the mix but typically it comes down to how exactly you smooth it off, concrete can come up slippery smooth from a trowel finish and that ****s mixed with stones and coarse sand, I don't know how smooth you want the finish but if it's mixed to a good consistency using a small smooth metal surface should ensure it comes up nicely, also I'm sure there are different grades of render you can buy from coarse to fine. Think of it like bog if you bog a dent on a car, you use the fine stuff for a smooth finish


 Thanx alex92 I was kinda thinking that after sitting there and staring at it for awhile, the first coat was kinda running, but now that's it's dry I can see where I have smooth areas and rough areas, the second coat has to be thick yeah?so it can be moulded?


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## alex92 (Jun 12, 2013)

the first coat of render is almost always just a binding layer to the final coat has something rough to stick to, i wouldn't say it's something that can be moulded, what i meant to get it smooth though is you will have to smooth over the entire surface, if you had some mixed u and just used the backside of a spoon to smooth it you should see what i mean, maybe go on youtube and you'll get a rough idea of how it normally goes and how the consistency should be when it's mixed, there's quite a few different finishes for render so it might pay to look up the finishing techniques


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## wildthings (Jun 12, 2013)

alex92 said:


> the first coat of render is almost always just a binding layer to the final coat has something rough to stick to, i wouldn't say it's something that can be moulded, what i meant to get it smooth though is you will have to smooth over the entire surface, if you had some mixed u and just used the backside of a spoon to smooth it you should see what i mean, maybe go on youtube and you'll get a rough idea of how it normally goes and how the consistency should be when it's mixed, there's quite a few different finishes for render so it might pay to look up the finishing techniques


good idea, will do..now


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## wildthings (Jun 12, 2013)

okay got it, should have looked on youtube sooner and heres the link if anyone is interested [video=youtube;GdrpKxG4mtI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdrpKxG4mtI[/video]


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## alex92 (Jun 12, 2013)

one of the craziest products i've used once for a job was this water proofing stuff, it was for a pool company planning to sell concentrated liquid chlorine, the stuff was crazy expensive but really cool, just painted on but would set hard in 20 mins, the surface honestly ended up looking like glass had been melted down and poured over the area haha


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## wildthings (Jun 12, 2013)

alex92 said:


> one of the craziest products i've used once for a job was this water proofing stuff, it was for a pool company planning to sell concentrated liquid chlorine, the stuff was crazy expensive but really cool, just painted on but would set hard in 20 mins, the surface honestly ended up looking like glass had been melted down and poured over the area haha


sounds interesting and would look really good depending on the colours ...not sure how I want the finish to look, I think as natural as possible, not glossy....


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## mudgudgeon (Jun 13, 2013)

if you want a smooth surface on render you can use a piece of plastic bag to rub it smooth once it is almost hard (instead of a plastic trowel), this works well for uneven surfaces or odd shapes like a fake rock background. 
You can get the render very smooth by rubbing, you can almost polish it. Rub it as soon as it's dry enough to not stick to a piece of plastic bag, re-rub it 15-20 minutes later


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## wildthings (Jun 13, 2013)

mudgudgeon said:


> if you want a smooth surface on render you can use a piece of plastic bag to rub it smooth once it is almost hard (instead of a plastic trowel), this works well for uneven surfaces or odd shapes like a fake rock background.
> You can get the render very smooth by rubbing, you can almost polish it. Rub it as soon as it's dry enough to not stick to a piece of plastic bag, re-rub it 15-20 minutes later


Thank you, I got a rubber trowel for the job, but will try out the plastic bag


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## alex92 (Jun 13, 2013)

mudgudgeon said:


> if you want a smooth surface on render you can use a piece of plastic bag to rub it smooth once it is almost hard (instead of a plastic trowel), this works well for uneven surfaces or odd shapes like a fake rock background.
> You can get the render very smooth by rubbing, you can almost polish it. Rub it as soon as it's dry enough to not stick to a piece of plastic bag, re-rub it 15-20 minutes later


haven't heard of that before, seems like a good idea though since you'll have the freedom if more or less forming it and shaping it by hand, help get into some of the tight spots, in all honesty i'd possible consider making something with paper mache or however you spell it and see how that works out haha


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 14, 2013)

I brought a box of latex gloves from coles before i started mine, use them for cleaning silicone up aswell.

First coat was poured on a spread with a brush, but all other layers were scooped onto the background and worked in using my handa hand. I got some fine lines using gloves but also got the rough texture, the sealer will block up holes in the surface of the wall but will still allow the render to have a slightly pitted surface for my monitors to dig into.

Render is great because i managed to put 3 coats on in a day, will never go back to grout. 

If you want a smooth texture i would go with a cement mix, make great water features.


Rick


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## Blinky (Jun 14, 2013)

View attachment 291223


All I use for all my rock walls is the dunlop acrylic render, you will find each rock wall you do will get better and better as you get more practice. This was a 4ft x 5ft rock wall, took me few hours to do.


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## mudgudgeon (Jun 14, 2013)

if you want to do a water feature, you can add a waterproofing agent to the acrylic render. I've used Silasec (at Bunnings) with great success, I made a waterproof water bowl with nothing but Dunlop render and Silasec, and have built a large water feature the same way, no sealer required.

The Silasec is a liquid and simply replaces some of the water when mixing the render.

I wouldn't use just cement, it will shrink and crack. You can add some cement to the render to help get a smoother finish, but not much is needed.

the latex gloves are great, but the render does shred them a bit, especially if coating over a dry rough layer. I've found an ordinary sponge makes applying render easy, particularly if you have large areas to cover, just scoop it on and spread it with the sponge


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## J-A-X (Jun 14, 2013)

I just checked the MSDS of silasec as I've never used it

Before adding you're reptile make sure you do the following if using it as a water feature/drinking bowl 

PREPARATION BEFORE ADDING FISH
Important: For fish ponds, it will be necessary to neutralise the lime alkaline action of the cement in water; as that can
be harmful to fish. A method of neutralising is as follow:

Fill pond with fresh water.
Allow to stand for 4 to 5 days.
Empty pond.
Refill with fresh water, Allow to stand for 2 or 3 days.
Check pH of water with litmus paper or a pool test kit. Fish are generally happy with a pH of between 7 and
7.5. To obtain the correct pH. level, treat as necessary 

Similar preparation should be implemented with pondtite as well


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## wildthings (Jun 14, 2013)

Wow thanx so much everyone..have started on the second coat of acrylic render and so far so good, it's a bit of trial and error but it's going good will post a pic when I have it all covered...could take awhile haha


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## wildthings (Jun 14, 2013)

Blinky said:


> View attachment 291223
> 
> 
> All I use for all my rock walls is the dunlop acrylic render, you will find each rock wall you do will get better and better as you get more practice. This was a 4ft x 5ft rock wall, took me few hours to do.


Practice makes perfect ah hmmm I think I'll need lots and lots of practice  your rock wall looks great


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## wildthings (Jun 15, 2013)

Getting there


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## Rogue5861 (Jun 16, 2013)

wildthings said:


> Getting there View attachment 291292



I think with enough coats of render it becomes alot easier to mold (thick coats). Adding more fine details as it is drying, paper clips or popsticks.

Looking great 


Rick


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## wildthings (Jun 17, 2013)

Okay all covered with the second coat, not sure if I want to do another coat, of render,, already used 30+ kg of the acrylic render, the enclosure is gonna weigh a tonne haha I ended up using a 50/50 mix of bondcrete/water, the first batch I mixed up following the directions on the youtube video, way to thick and it just would not stick, so the next batch was a bit thinner, not by much, but worked well and stuck well, sure that had something to do with the 50/50 water bondcrete haha and I did work out how to get the surface reasonably smoothish, round the last mix haha. All good, start painting soon 

the right fern covers a hide, think it will do for a hide?


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## wildthings (Jun 17, 2013)

have no idea why it keeps doubling up on the pics posted?


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## wildthings (Jun 24, 2013)

Updated pics..nearly done


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## wildthings (Jun 24, 2013)

Artwork instead of bark haha


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## wildthings (Jul 6, 2013)

I have now done two coats of Pondite..I ended up spraying on with a little pump bottle that give a really fine mist, painting it on with paint brush was too difficult to get into all the little pits etc, and has worked well I think, made sure that it didnt pool anywhere by just using the paintbrush to mop up extra.. looks good and as you know I was worried about the shiny look, well it's kinda shiny, more of a wet look, which probably suits well coz it's supposed to be a rainforest/jungle type background, and the pondtite does bring out colours, more so than a clear gloss and it does give grey's a metallic finish..now for the plants


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## Ghotar (Jul 11, 2013)

What brand of acrylic render would you guys recommend?


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## jacevy (Jul 11, 2013)

I used Dunlop and it was great.


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2013)

Any acrylic render that's cheap will do the job, I've used a few different brands and had no problems


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## wildthings (Jul 12, 2013)

I used the dunlop as well, I think it's available pretty much at all hardware stores


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## Ghotar (Jul 12, 2013)

Thanks guys


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## wildthings (Jul 20, 2013)

Hi guys, I have some updated pics of what I have been doing, fairly well done, just waiting for new baton holders, some how manage to break one, so might as well replace both. I 've put in a poster at the back, really happy with how it looks. Next enclosure will be much quicker to do...now that I know which way round to do things haha..Thanks so much for all the info and help you have given me, very much appreciated.. will post a pic when he's finally in it 
Cheers
Rachel.View attachment 293412
View attachment 293413


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