# High cost of Snake Food



## Yellowtail (Oct 15, 2017)

Yesterday I bought a few frozen rats and was quickly reminded of the high price of snake food in Australia.
I got them cheap, $8 each for 150gm rats but on my way home I also bought a 300gm pork fillet for my dinner and it only cost $12, less than the cost of 2 rats (300gm) Online they are cheaper.

I'm not suggesting we feed snakes pork fillets but this is crazy.

Wokka I'm not having a go at you, your rats are among the cheapest and good quality but why is this so?

In the US a pork fillet is about the same as here but 175gm+ rats are only $2 each. Over there even large breeders don't bother to breed their own food while in Australia anyone with more than a few snakes has to become a rat breeder or go bankrupt.




From Rodentfarm site and good value by Australian standards






From Rodent Pro site in US. (there are many others with similar prices)


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## kittycat17 (Oct 15, 2017)

Well remember you have to change the US amount to the Aussie amount for a fair comparison 
But yeah it pisses me off how expensive it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bl69aze (Oct 15, 2017)

kittycat17 said:


> Well remember you have to change the US amount to the Aussie amount for a fair comparison
> But yeah it pisses me off how expensive it is
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Even then $2.50 is only 5$ at most aud 

I don’t find it much of an issue as I do plan my money (sometimes) to spend 150$ on rats and mice which will last a good 6months 

However i am thinking of finding a private breeder who don’t have space of males etc


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## Yellowtail (Oct 15, 2017)

At current exchange rate US$2.00 is AU$2.50


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## Scutellatus (Oct 15, 2017)

It all comes down to supply and demand. With around 200 million more people in the US the price is bound to be a lot cheaper.
It is the same with fastfood, you can get 50c cheeseburgers there everyday, here the best they will do is $2 on special.


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## imported-varanus (Oct 15, 2017)

Don't get large monitors in that case, if you feel feeding pythons is exy...just sayin".


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## Bl69aze (Oct 15, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> At current exchange rate US$2.00 is AU$2.50


Have you tried shipping? Not sure if that’d be any cheaper, maybe in big bulks


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## Wokka (Oct 15, 2017)

I have been farming all my life and can confirm rodent farming is more profitable than traditional sheep and cattle farming. I used to have a few hundred cattle with probably a few million tied up in land to graze them on,and i could not afford to pay labour if i relied only upon the cattle income. With rodents we have around a million dollars tied up in land, shedding and cages and can afford to pay labour, and probably make more profit than than if we left the money in the bank. You need to because full time rodent farming ties you down! I have often compared the USA where rodents are half the price. Feed prices are about the same so they mustn't pay much for labour. The backyarders here are the ones making a killing. Without the cost of labour , GST and income tax they still charge the same as most Aussie wholesalers who put everything through the books. 
Yellowtail, to be fair you have compared Rodentfarm small quantity prices, with subsidised delivery to your door, to Rodentpro bulk prices without subsidised delivery. That aside, there must be significant economies in the large scale.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 15, 2017)

*But pork fillets are the same price as here in US?* Those "under 500" RodentPro prices apply to one bag of 5.
Wokka, I'm sure you have checked out how they do it over there, they sell mice for as low as 13 cents. Do they get the food free as a waste product? I breed mice for my own animals and I have not considered selling them because even at $1 for fuzzies it's not worth it. OK the labour and power are cheap in US and their freight costs are peanuts but that does not explain the difference?
Maybe you should import a freezer container full? 10,000 rats (probably a lot more in a 20 ft container) at 50 cents per rat freight and handling, total cost maybe A$2.50 a rat?


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## Wokka (Oct 15, 2017)

My background is in processing, import and export of meat and livestock. Manufactured livestock feed is ball park the same price, as it is a world market. Rodents are not,as Australia has the best health status in the world and wants to keep it that way. There is not sufficient critical mass in the Australian market to justify developing the necessary protocols to allow importation from countries with rabies and foot and mouth. I used to be regularly offered rodents from Europe at bargain prices but they are not allowed in. You cant have it both ways, If you want Australian conditions you need to pay Australian prices. This global market is BS. Its just a race to the bottom until the whole world adopts the lowest common denominator. There is more to business than just making money, or at least there should be!


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## pinefamily (Oct 15, 2017)

Unfortunately, this problem is not unique to reptile food; Australia seems to cop the brunt of price gouging (not that I'm saying Wokka is doing this of course). Then the flip side of it is buying online/from overseas to save money, and we are made to feel guilty because "Australian jobs" are being threatened.
Just generalizations, and I'm off the soapbox now.
Just for the record, from what I've seen, Rodentfarm is one of the most competitive going around.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 15, 2017)

imported-varanus said:


> Don't get large monitors in that case, if you feel feeding pythons is exy...just sayin".


we want to get large monitors to eat what fussy/shedding pythons wont/can't eat


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## pinefamily (Oct 15, 2017)

imported-varanus said:


> Don't get large monitors in that case, if you feel feeding pythons is exy...just sayin".


That's why we're waiting for the rabbits and guinea pigs to get busy.


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## imported-varanus (Oct 15, 2017)

dragonlover1 said:


> we want to get large monitors to eat what fussy/shedding pythons wont/can't eat


Trust me, they'll take all that, and then some over the warmer months.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 15, 2017)

This has to be the best thread of recent time.
I don't have a gripe with any above board breeder making a dollar. They do the work, they have all the overheads and they deserve to make a crust while of course trying to remain competitive in a market where some need to compete with some rather underhanded home breeders.
I don't have a problem with a home breeder moving on stock that he doesn't, at a reasonable price and making a reasonable return for their efforts. 
I do have a problem with home breeders who supply to the market with no other interest in the reptile community and look only at lining their own pockets. 
I also have a problem with some of the 'pet' stores. The mark up on their reptile food is criminal and the only thing they do to earn it is unpack the box and turn the freezer on. These stores are having a negative impact on the reptile community as a whole as the prices they charge make it really expensive for anyone with a single snake to feed and would surely put them off buying a 2nd/3rd animal. 
If I was reliant on these charlatans to buy my reptile food I would be lucky to afford 2 or 3 animals and not the collection I'm fortunate enough to have. 

Rant over.


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## Wokka (Oct 16, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> That's why we're waiting for the rabbits and guinea pigs to get busy.


From an economic point of view it is not worth breeding rabbits any more. Every time the government produce a new virus to fight wild rabbits, you lose your captive breeding herd. There used to be hundreds of commercial rabbit farms in Australia . I don't know of any with more than a hundred or so breeders. It part of the cost of saving the enormous environmental damage done by feral rabbits! Most ferreting has also now stopped due to inconsistent supply and the cost of labour.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 16, 2017)

RodentPro's Rabbits? 
Wouldn't it be great to be able to get small rabbits for our carpets at $8-$9 each.


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## Wokka (Oct 16, 2017)

It is interesting that rodentpro only charge an extra $1 for ball park double the weight as rabbits increase in size!! That is about $1 per pound or $2.50 per kilo. One of you internet experts can probably find them on a supermarket website for around $20 a kilo in Aus.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 16, 2017)

Prices in UK are similar to USA so its not just an American thing. Their medium rats are about the size of our large - extra large.


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## Nero Egernia (Oct 16, 2017)

I don't really pay much attention to reptile food prices as I grow it all at home. I do supply mice to a friend who has a juvenile Stimson's Python. Most of the time I get them to buy me lunch for the mice. If I did ask for money the local pet shop prices are triple the cost!


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 16, 2017)

Another thing that goads me is how some rat suppliers name their rats large/extra large when they are really small/medium. It should be compulsory that they are sold by weight or at least a minimum weight per rat is advertised so the buyer can easily compare prices.....(similar to how we compare supermarket prices).
You advertise weights wokka even with the volumes you are dealing with so do many other reputable breeders. Its as though others use the large/medium rat title as another way to con the buyer.


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## Wokka (Oct 16, 2017)

One consideration it the genetic line of rats used to produce the food. My observation is that whilst there are adult rats in Australia that tip the scales at over 1 kilo most mature rats are less than half of that. females are normally 3-400 grams and males 4-500 grams. Some lab rats are huge but generally they don't handle "farm" conditions, which expose them to many natural bugs.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 16, 2017)

Wokka said:


> It is interesting that rodentpro only charge an extra $1 for ball park double the weight as rabbits increase in size!! That is about $1 per pound or $2.50 per kilo. One of you internet experts can probably find them on a supermarket website for around $20 a kilo in Aus.


Ha this is why we need a couple of lacie's,small rabbits cost $25,if the coastal refuses that's $25 down the drain! Sure our local raven gets a feed but it's not our aim to feed ravens especially at those prices.
Luckily we have a local supplier for our rodents and we get them for less than half the price of petbarn,otherwise our pythons would have to find a new home.


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## Wokka (Oct 17, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I don't really pay much attention to reptile food prices as I grow it all at home. I do supply mice to a friend who has a juvenile Stimson's Python. Most of the time I get them to buy me lunch for the mice. If I did ask for money the local pet shop prices are triple the cost!


You are lucky to be lunching in Australia. Swapping lunch for mice in USA you'd go hungry!


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## Ann-Maree (Oct 17, 2017)

Just a snapshot of what we have down my way for comparison. There is a lot of weight variation in what's available in one animal.


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## pinefamily (Oct 17, 2017)

Haven't used them, but have heard good things about them.


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## GBWhite (Oct 17, 2017)

Unfortunately, just like the majority of other retail outlets a lot of pet shops and especially those associated with franchises make it a common practice to increase the price of stock to around 300% to cover operating costs and make a profit. Hence the high cost of rodents when purchasing from a pet shop. I've got a diploma in small business and when I used to sell rodents to independent pet shops (franchises are usually governed by the terms of their franchise agreement) I would use the marketing method of informing them about the benefits of target marketing by using the strategy of applying a smaller profit to increase turnover (smaller price=larger turnover=decrease in wastage=higher profit) and encourage them to use the method of keeping the prices of rodents to a very minimum to get more people through the door who may in turn recommend them to others and/or purchase other items for their reptiles or even other pets. Seem to have work quite well but appears to be a very uncommon marketing strategy these days.


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## Ann-Maree (Oct 17, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Haven't used them, but have heard good things about them.


They are friendly and helpful, the product has been fine to my newbie eye.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 17, 2017)

@ Ann-Maree, Generally those prices look quite competitive, (cheap in comparison to some). I just dont see how anyone can charge almost double the price for what could be 20g between a large and a jumbo rat.


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## bluedragon (Oct 17, 2017)

im just going to breed my own snake food


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## Ann-Maree (Oct 17, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> @ Ann-Maree, Generally those prices look quite competitive, (cheap in comparison to some). I just dont see how anyone can charge almost double the price for what could be 20g between a large and a jumbo rat.



It's all about what a person will pay at the end of the day.
Still depending on the size of say a medium rat 91-160grams your looking at almost 2x the size for the same cost. For someone like me who has 2 snakes that's not likely to be a huge issue. Big breeders probably breed there own or have a fairly good set up with a supplier. It's the people in the middle that breed and sell smaller amounts who might feel it the most.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 17, 2017)

Ann Maree those prices are not bad for rats and around the best you can get in NSW buying large numbers. The fuzzy mouse prices are high but anyone using a lot should be breeding their own.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 17, 2017)

GBWhite said:


> Unfortunately, just like the majority of other retail outlets a lot of pet shops and especially those associated with franchises make it a common practice to increase the price of stock to around 300% to cover operating costs and make a profit. Hence the high cost of rodents when purchasing from a pet shop. I've got a diploma in small business and when I used to sell rodents to independent pet shops (franchises are usually governed by the terms of their franchise agreement) I would use the marketing method of informing them about the benefits of target marketing by using the strategy of applying a smaller profit to increase turnover (smaller price=larger turnover=decrease in wastage=higher profit) and encourage them to use the method of keeping the prices of rodents to a very minimum to get more people through the door who may in turn recommend them to others and/or purchase other items for their reptiles or even other pets. Seem to have work quite well but appears to be a very uncommon marketing strategy these days.


Yes George you are right,Most people don't seem to get the small profit /quick turnover thing anymore,they all seem to want huge profits as well as quick turnover...you can't have it both ways


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 17, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> Ann Maree those prices are not bad for rats and around the best you can get in NSW buying large numbers. The fuzzy mouse prices are high but anyone using a lot should be breeding their own.



Problem is there are quite strict rules on breeding rodents here in Vic. If we were to breed our own and got reported we would be in serious trouble.


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## Wokka (Oct 18, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Problem is there are quite strict rules on breeding rodents here in Vic. If we were to breed our own and got reported we would be in serious trouble.


I think you will find the same requirements exist all over Australia. Intensive animal production is not a permissible use without development consent, in many land zoning , particuarly residential, so most operations are acting illegally.The line is probably crossed once you start selling. It is also classified by the ATO as: livestock industry n.e.c and subject to standard taxation requirements. These requirements add significant costs to doing business "properly" so it is probably not comparing apples to apples when comparing prices of a pickup (cash) business to those including GST. Cash prices should be approaching half of those through the books! Can someone enlighten me as to the taxation situation in USA? That may be another influence on pricing.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 18, 2017)

I agree wokka, and these home breeders will be crying in their beer once the local councils/ATO come knocking on the door.


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## Ann-Maree (Oct 18, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> Ann Maree those prices are not bad for rats and around the best you can get in NSW buying large numbers. The fuzzy mouse prices are high but anyone using a lot should be breeding their own.


That's good to know, l definitely don't want to come across as unappreciative of the work that goes into producing them. We have similar licencing laws that govern backyard egg sales in S.A. it cost a grand or so to have the premise inspected for a licence. It put a few off but not all, so far ther has been no crackdown.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 18, 2017)

Keeping and breeding rats and mice in NSW is not illegal and there are many "fancy mouse" breeders and clubs. There are regulations as to the standard of cages etc and individual councils have their own interpretation as they also do with keeping of venomous snakes.
Victoria should pay more attention to the mass farming of dogs.

Running a commercial operation from a residential property is another matter with a whole lot of restrictions and regulation.
Queensland appears to be very lax with the keeping of rodents.


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## SpottedPythons (Oct 22, 2017)

Saw a packet of 5 Weaner Rats at the shop... $32. That's over $6 dollars a rat, and you can get them cheaper than that in the Small Mammals section of the same store!


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