# woma x ball python



## hoppyone (Mar 10, 2011)

Dont you just love those americans they will cross anything but it does'nt look that bad.


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## trickedoutz31 (Mar 10, 2011)

i wonder what it would have looked like if they did it the other way around making the woma the female instead of the ball


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## Crystal..Discus (Mar 10, 2011)

I hate them, but each to their own....


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## bump73 (Mar 10, 2011)

lucky we live in Australia where nothing gets crossed:lol::lol:


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## russellman (Mar 10, 2011)

I dont mind it. Something different


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

bump73 said:


> lucky we live in Australia where nothing gets crossed:lol::lol:


 ...............


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## krefft (Mar 10, 2011)

Cool. Have seen it before but as it's bred solely for the pet industry who cares if it's a cross


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## dihsmaj (Mar 10, 2011)

It's purdy.


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## Klaery (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm not going to lie and say I think it looks bad. I that that is one pretty darn good looking snake. Not something I would own but it does look nice.


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## cadwallader (Mar 10, 2011)

i qouldn't want a cross just for the fact that its not NATURAL but thats my opinion


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## Daniel_Penrith (Mar 10, 2011)

cant wait to see the woma x bhp to come.. .or has it already happened?


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## dale1988 (Mar 10, 2011)

each to there own i guess i myself think it looks awesome something different


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## -Katana- (Mar 10, 2011)

Oh gods......I weep for the future of Australia's herps.


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## cadwallader (Mar 10, 2011)

*f*

it just depend on what are the reasons you keep reptiles...

but yer i hate them haha


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## Jay84 (Mar 10, 2011)

The patterning is INSANE!


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 10, 2011)

interesting,nice pattern.i really hope they called it a womball.(i used to love the wombals)


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## Spot_the_mac (Mar 10, 2011)

wow designer snakes


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## hornet (Mar 10, 2011)

cadwallader said:


> i qouldn't want a cross just for the fact that its not NATURAL but thats my opinion


 
so by that logic 90% of snakes bred you wouldnt own?


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

hornet said:


> so by that logic 90% of snakes bred you wouldnt own?


Its more unnatural these species were separated by millions of years of evolution from before the time the continents split there is no way you can say they were ever meant to breed. It is interesting that it is possible and it does look nice.


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## Nighthawk (Mar 10, 2011)

slimebo said:


> interesting,nice pattern.i really hope they called it a womball.(i used to love the wombals)


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## Niall (Mar 10, 2011)

Daniel_Penrith said:


> cant wait to see the woma x bhp to come.. .or has it already happened?



If you check out daves site, there is a photo of a python that people said was a womaXBHP but was never proven because it died before a DNA test was done.
Black Headed Python


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## cadwallader (Mar 10, 2011)

hornet said:


> so by that logic 90% of snakes bred you wouldnt own?


haha good call, but i could still go out and find snakes in natural system that look like the snakes i own, i couldn't find that in ANY natural environment in the world....


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## Daniel_Penrith (Mar 10, 2011)

Niall said:


> If you check out daves site, there is a photo of a python that people said was a womaXBHP but was never proven because it died before a DNA test was done.
> Black Headed Python



Wow thats unreal wonder what it died from


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## Jay84 (Mar 10, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Its more unnatural these species were separated by millions of years of evolution from before the time the continents split.



What's wrong with a family reunion?!?!?


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## cadwallader (Mar 10, 2011)

apart from the fact they are from different fams nothing...


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## Snakeluvver2 (Mar 10, 2011)

It's worth putting down.


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## yommy (Mar 10, 2011)

Isn't the woma ball just a name? not a cross. 
I've watched every episode of snake bytes and there has never been any mention of crossing. I could be wrong.
BHB had naming rights. Next time i'm chatting with Brian via e-mail i'll ask.


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

Exotics by Nature : Daytona Beach '06 Photos


> NERD had quite a few new and interesting things on display as always. My new favorite from them this year is the Pastel Lesser Platnum Woma Ball Python! The Wall (Woma Python x Ball Python) was pretty neat too!


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## Spot_the_mac (Mar 10, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Exotics by Nature : Daytona Beach '06 Photos



man that is awesome i scrolled down about a fifth of the way and was blown away then it just kept going that is absolutelly mad that is it will go here you can kiss goodbye to a stoko woma


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah google searches yield incredible results.


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## Grunter023 (Mar 10, 2011)

I would like any ball python - I don't care what they are crossed with. I think they all look amazing!


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## drake84 (Mar 11, 2011)

Not sure what I think to be honest...


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## Wookie (Mar 11, 2011)

cadwallader said:


> i qouldn't want a cross just for the fact that its not NATURAL but thats my opinion


 
Sorry to single you out mate, I know its a common opinion. But man, half the things we are trading aren't natural. They are line bred. Yes they might be the same species, but some are far from the natural snakes you'd find in the wild. Not saying "unnatural" is bad, personally I think it is awesome. I like morphs and I like some crosses. The only reason hybrids are shunned are because our system cannot control breeding and sale to prevent misrepresentation. I mean, if it was applied to humans (a stretch I know) To disagree with crossing a jungle with a diamond is like saying you're against interracial relationships in people... Same species, different locality. Most likely all shared a common ancestor anyway...



Dannyboi said:


> Ithere is no way you can say they were ever meant to breed


 
But they CAN breed and they DID produce viable young. Maybe part of our lords divine plan :lol:



Grunter023 said:


> I would like any ball python - I don't care what they are crossed with. I think they all look amazing!


 
I hate their body shape, morelia for me . Now for a boelens......


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## Dannyboi (Mar 11, 2011)

Brodak_Moment said:


> But they CAN breed and they DID produce viable young. Maybe part of our lords divine plan :lol:


Are the young fertile? I doubt it can't find too much information on this but that would be more proof that its just not meant to be.


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## euphorion (Mar 11, 2011)

Wow, that is one insane looking snake! But i'm still glad that for the most part our native are protected by law regardless of what some people might do with them.


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## Jay84 (Mar 11, 2011)

Grunter023 said:


> I would like any ball python - I don't care what they are crossed with. I think they all look amazing!



Maybe this is how we can have a little bit of ball python in Australia! lol


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## Sock Puppet (Mar 11, 2011)

yommy said:


> Isn't the woma ball just a name? not a cross.


 
That's what I thought too.

In fact I just found this
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100606125200AADhNnz


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## thexbluexfairy (Mar 11, 2011)

This confunds me, i dont quite understand the point of this. Alas the patterning on the animal is quite remarkable, though i wouldnt own one, let alone attempt to create such a thing.


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## -Katana- (Mar 11, 2011)

I think this thread shows a lot of irresponsibility, to be honest.

We already know that there are people here in Aus. who have ball pythons and now it's just a matter of time before some half baked twit thinks this is a fabulous idea and goes and tries it.

These woma balls..as far as snakes go....well I think they'd make fantastic clutch purses.


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## atothej09 (Mar 11, 2011)

whats wrong with cross breeds???
my dog is a Japanese Chin X Maltese...and he's one of the best dogs I have ever had.
Most humans are cross bred.
I love the look of Ball Pythons, and I love the different paint jobs that are produced. I have no idea why some members here are against allowing them in the country, how it effects them is beyond me, and to compare them to the canetoad problem is ridiculous.


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## Wookie (Mar 11, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> We already know that there are people here in Aus. who have ball pythons and now it's just a matter of time before some half baked twit thinks this is a fabulous idea and goes and tries it.


 
Awesome, then they can sell me one ;P


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## SamNabz (Mar 11, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> whats wrong with cross breeds???
> my dog is a Japanese Chin X Maltese...



Get a real dog


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## Snake-Supplies (Mar 11, 2011)

I see love hearts on it...


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## cadwallader (Mar 11, 2011)

Bringing ball python is to aus is such an irresponsible act there is a reason they cant come in legally ( except a few cases). Because of people that have brought in animal with such little research we end up with populations such as can toads (yes they came to get the cane beetle i know) and other pest sp. that we cant control. who know corn snakes and ball python may take over many of Australia's ecosystems and screw up the whole system... just look at tasmaina its only been in the last 10 years that fox's have made it there, and now they are there for good eating our native mice and other sp.


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## impulse reptiles (Mar 11, 2011)

i hate it when people compare dogs to snakes.


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## cadwallader (Mar 11, 2011)

Brodak_Moment said:


> Sorry to single you out mate, I know its a common opinion. But man, half the things we are trading aren't natural. They are line bred. Yes they might be the same species, but some are far from the natural snakes you'd find in the wild. Not saying "unnatural" is bad, personally I think it is awesome. I like morphs and I like some crosses. The only reason hybrids are shunned are because our system cannot control breeding and sale to prevent misrepresentation. I mean, if it was applied to humans (a stretch I know) To disagree with crossing a jungle with a diamond is like saying you're against interracial relationships in people... Same species, different locality. Most likely all shared a common ancestor anyway...
> 
> 
> Brodak_Moment said:
> ...


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## atothej09 (Mar 11, 2011)

SamNabz said:


> Get a real dog


 
Not nice...LOL. 
He is a real dog!! Vicious too...will leap 10 feet and go straight for your throat on command.


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## nervous (Mar 11, 2011)

> i keep snakes in nice bigs natural looking tank thats how i like it to see a snake in it native environment. and if you had read all my comments on this thread i then said i like a snake that looks like one i could find in the wild if i was looking... and i couldn't find a womball thing anywhere... and these snakes cant naturally breed if we didnt put them together
> Cheers luke.



Keeping snakes in tanks is not natural, and just because you try your best to make it look natural, doesn't make it natural!

and a snake is a snake no matter wether you can find it in the wild or not!

but i understand each to there own, i'm not fussed about either.... i'm in this hobby because i love snakes in general!


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## dale1988 (Mar 11, 2011)

why can the americans and all that have our snakes but we cant have theres?


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## yommy (Mar 11, 2011)

Sock Puppet said:


> That's what I thought too.
> 
> In fact I just found this
> Woma ball python morph? - Yahoo! Answers



i've sent BHB an email, better to hear straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. as my money is on a paintjob colour mutation not a cross to an aussie woma. once i get a reply i'll let you know


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## cadwallader (Mar 11, 2011)

nervous said:


> Keeping snakes in tanks is not natural, and just because you try your best to make it look natural, doesn't make it natural!
> 
> and a snake is a snake no matter wether you can find it in the wild or not!
> 
> but i understand each to there own, i'm not fussed about either.... i'm in this hobby because i love snakes in general!


 
Obviously it is not a natural system or i would be feeding live etc ... but its a **** load more natural then some plain tank or a tub.
and yer its still a snake but something i and i believe many other are not interested in as its not a naturally occurring sp. but something made by man, but like you said you keep snakes because you like "any snakes" each to there own.


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## nervous (Mar 11, 2011)

cadwallader said:


> Obviously it is not a natural system or i would be feeding live etc ... but its a **** load more natural then some plain tank or a tub.



nothing about keeping snakes in captivity is natural!


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## ozziepythons (Mar 11, 2011)

hoppyone said:


> View attachment 190045
> Dont you just love those americans they will cross anything but it does'nt look that bad.


 
No no, they call it "conservation through propagation" 
Anything to justify a snake freak show.


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## Emilie (Mar 11, 2011)

yommy said:


> i've sent BHB an email, better to hear straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. as my money is on a paintjob colour mutation not a cross to an aussie woma. once i get a reply i'll let you know


 
Quote from the page where this photo was taken from. I`m guessing it really is a cross then

ERD had quite a few new and interesting things on display as always. My new favorite from them this year is the Pastel Lesser Platnum Woma Ball Python! The Wall (Woma Python x Ball Python) was pretty neat too!


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## Dannyboi (Mar 11, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> whats wrong with cross breeds???
> my dog is a Japanese Chin X Maltese...and he's one of the best dogs I have ever had.
> Most humans are cross bred.
> I love the look of Ball Pythons, and I love the different paint jobs that are produced. I have no idea why some members here are against allowing them in the country, how it effects them is beyond me, and to compare them to the canetoad problem is ridiculous.


Not really a cross breed. A cross breed is like with dogs but they are all the same species these are hybrids. A cross of two different species. Most of the time it takes a lot of coaxing to get a snake to hybridize and it takes a lot of time to get the setup right to keep them temps, humidity ect. The resulting young are generally infertile which means that they cannot breed and there is no actual point in keeping it as anything but a pet (Not that there is anything wrong with that) on top of this it means that finding the real deal non hybrid snakes will become difficult if hybridization becomes popular. And what do you put it on your permit as?


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## yommy (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's the reply from Brian at BHB

*Hey,
A woma ball is a mutation of a 100% pure ball python, but there is something called a "Wall" that is a woma python crossed to a ball python. I do not work with many hybrids, so all of mine are pure ball pythons  
Hope this helps! Talk soon, Brian*

So as i originally thought the woma ball is a pure ball with a colour mutation, not a hybrid. Though it is a shame some are trying it and tainting two great pythons in the attempt


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## Sock Puppet (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks for finding out Yommy, thought so too. 

A Wall python? Why didn't they call it a Boma?


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## Syn2554 (Mar 15, 2011)

It has love hearts!!!!


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## Lyric (Mar 15, 2011)

That patterning is amazing. Stunning snake!


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## Jay84 (Mar 15, 2011)

Pure Ball Python or Woma x Ball...... i love it!

I wonder how many of the 'purists' would have said they like it from the start if they knew it was a pure ball, but said they didnt like it as it was thought it was a hybrid? lol


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## Red-Ink (Mar 15, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> Pure Ball Python or Woma x Ball...... i love it!
> 
> I wonder how many of the 'purists' would have said they like it from the start if they knew it was a pure ball, but said they didnt like it as it was thought it was a hybrid? lol


 
That's when preconcieved beliefs and strong stance get in the way of appreciation Jay..... a pretty snake is pretty regardless of it's make up....


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## ezekiel86 (Mar 15, 2011)

its cool ...dont mind it ...have seen worse looking crossz 
Gotta love the Aus market


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## Jay84 (Mar 15, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> That's when preconcieved beliefs and strong stance get in the way of appreciation Jay..... a pretty snake is pretty regardless of it's make up....


 
Exactly!

People have strived to produce Jungles (locality pure) to look bright, reduced pattern etc etc....... Then other morphs start popping up which look like the animals these breeders are trying to produce, yet they express their utter distaste at these animals, saying they think they are ugly just because they are not locality pure? Stupid.


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## Dannyboi (Mar 15, 2011)

Fair sure I posted on this thread about the "wall" and the link shows the pics match up. this snake is a wall python.



Dannyboi said:


> Exotics by Nature : Daytona Beach '06 Photos


see.



> NERD had quite a few new and interesting things on display as always. My new favorite from them this year is the Pastel Lesser Platnum Woma Ball Python! The Wall (Woma Python x Ball Python) was pretty neat too!


Interesting. Yes.


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## AUSHERP (Mar 15, 2011)

i thought they were called womballs.


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## Dannyboi (Mar 15, 2011)

Feel free to call them whatever you want. I don't see it making a difference.


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## AUSHERP (Mar 15, 2011)

Well it doesn't I was just adding to the thread, Sorry danny


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## Dannyboi (Mar 15, 2011)

No I encourage it. I actually like the name Womball. Better than Wall Python. Wall is too easy to confuse with other things.


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## SYNeR (Mar 16, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Its more unnatural these species were separated by millions of years of evolution from before the time the continents split there is no way you can say they were ever *meant* to breed. It is interesting that it is possible and it does look nice.



Never 'meant' to breed? That's supposing that there's some kind of purpose to evolution. There's not, beyond it being blind & guided by natural selection. Saying it's not 'meant' to happen is a rather silly argument that doesn't really fill the is/ought gap.


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## Dannyboi (Mar 16, 2011)

There is a purpose to evolution. Survival. Breeding with something that would not survive the the same habitat is illogical so where would the offspring live? It wouldn't fit. I say as a pet its very interesting. There is a theory incorporated in evolutionary theory that creatures that aren't the same species will not produce fertile offspring as a safety mechanism to prevent it from happening regularly. It is a different species saying that is ok is like saying a human can breed with apes. Its just wrong.


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## Jumala (Mar 16, 2011)

this was a hatchling (?age?) that I saw in the USA in 2005. The shop said it was a woma x ball python ... it does look like hearts


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## SYNeR (Mar 17, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> There is a purpose to evolution. Survival. Breeding with something that would not survive the the same habitat is illogical so where would the offspring live? It wouldn't fit. I say as a pet its very interesting. There is a theory incorporated in evolutionary theory that creatures that aren't the same species will not produce fertile offspring as a safety mechanism to prevent it from happening regularly. It is a different species saying that is ok is like saying a human can breed with apes. Its just wrong.


 
There's only purpose insofar as natural selection is concerned. Besides, we're talking about captive animals here. Again, you're commiting a naturalistic fallacy by saying 'it's just wrong' without any real justification. I agree that it does become an issue when different problems (such as neurological) arise.

Hybrid speciation:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070314-hybrids.html


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