# Intergrade Identification Markers?



## Earthling (Aug 3, 2008)

Ive been looking into the Intergrade thing occasionally for a bit now and as I cant see a thread where people have debated as to what an intergrade is, without resentment/anger surfacing. Perhaps this thread can............. 
All I want to do is learn how to ID one............OPEN MIND................

From what I understand, have seen and after reading different books, it seems to come down to DNA or Lateral scale markings, as to wether a python can be put into a coastal, intergrade or Diamond box.
Bigguys sticky is good.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help/faq-what-is-an-intergrade-54862

Regarding markings:
Yellow/tan/pale Spotted scales throughout the length of the body indicate diamond/intergrade?
Loosley formed rossettes laterally indicate diamond/intergrade?

Regarding Location:
The intergrade zone is Coffs Harbour to just above Newcastle? 
So are all pythons in this zone intergrades?

Many statements are made that you must trust/refer to the seller. What if the seller doesnt know.........ignorance does happen (plus occasionally head in the sand)?

So, how do you tell an intergrade from a Coastal or Diamond?
I know opinions will differ, but lets try and look with an open mind...........


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## lizzy_reptile (Aug 3, 2008)

Cant help you but...There is a beaut intergrade at Pails. I really love the look of it. Looks like a Diamond x Bredli.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 3, 2008)

lizzy_reptile said:


> Cant help you but...There is a beaut intergrade at Pails. I really love the look of it. Looks like a Diamond x Bredli.



God when will this end? A Diamond x Bredli is a hybrid not an intergrade.


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## JasonL (Aug 3, 2008)

There is no 100% way of telling. Experience of seeing plenty of different local specific animals is the best way of getting an idea, but only an idea. Incubation temperatures can throw out animals that look nothing like the parents, even the odd wild type animal may turn up that looks odd for the area from whence it came, from any one local, there is such a huge variance in patterns / colours.


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## lizzy_reptile (Aug 3, 2008)

Didnt say it was a x. I said it looks like a cross between the 2.


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## ambah (Aug 3, 2008)

Yea, there is a Bredli X Diamond in there.. but there is also an diamond intergrade too :|


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## lizzy_reptile (Aug 3, 2008)

Im not trying to start an argument or anything. I have very little experience and just commented on what i seen in there and its marked as a Diamond Intergrade. And to me it looks kind of Bredli(ish). Thats all. I personally love the snake and if I had the money I would buy it.


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## ambah (Aug 3, 2008)

I dont think anyone was implying that you were


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## BROWNS (Aug 3, 2008)

This topic has been done to death but still seems people don't understand it.Surely if you did a search you'd have found a stack of information in regards to your question.

One of the best explanations I've read on the topic was given by cockney red not long ago at all,maybe try and find that?Also I guess it all comes down to experience and knowing what you're looking at.There were some pics posted recently of what were called Coffs Harbour pure coastals but as was explained in that thread they were intergades not pure Coffs Harbour coastals,if wanting to be 100% correct I guess they would be referred to Coffs Harbour Intergrades as they came or originated from Coffs Harbour,!There are plenty of other localities for these as well such as Kempsey or Port Macquarie intergades etc.They're not pure diamonds nor pure coastals but a natural mix of the two which have their boundaries which aren't like a definite line drawn where they become either Pure diamonds as you head south or Pure coastals as the boundary heads North.

As I mentioned try find cockney reds explanation posted a few weeks ago which over all the years of debating this topic I think has described it the best in a straight forward way that everyone can understand or in Laymans terms...cheers!!!


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## pythons73 (Aug 3, 2008)

well said,Browns.This topic could go on 4 years and still go nowhere,if ur buying 1 it should b up 2 the breeder 2 actually tell you what it is.Cheers


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## Earthling (Aug 3, 2008)

BROWNS said:


> This topic has been done to death but still seems people don't understand it.Surely if you did a search you'd have found a stack of information in regards to your question.
> 
> One of the best explanations I've read on the topic was given by cockney red not long ago at all,maybe try and find that?Also I guess it all comes down to experience and knowing what you're looking at.There were some pics posted recently of what were called Coffs Harbour pure coastals but as was explained in that thread they were intergades not pure Coffs Harbour coastals,if wanting to be 100% correct I guess they would be referred to Coffs Harbour Intergrades as they came or originated from Coffs Harbour,!There are plenty of other localities for these as well such as Kempsey or Port Macquarie intergades etc.They're not pure diamonds nor pure coastals but a natural mix of the two which have their boundaries which aren't like a definite line drawn where they become either Pure diamonds as you head south or Pure coastals as the boundary heads North.
> 
> As I mentioned try find cockney reds explanation posted a few weeks ago which over all the years of debating this topic I think has described it the best in a straight forward way that everyone can understand or in Laymans terms...cheers!!!


 
Thanks Brown for the pointing in the direction of cockneyreds posts. Have seen some good ones but cant recall the one your mentioning.
Regarding done to death. I disagree. The info usually posted is in a thread full of animosity and "I know what my snake is so dont try and tell me" comments. I was hoping to keep this thread with info and no personal comments/ignorance.....
I have been searching, but soon become sick of reading all the attacks and putdowns and ignorance people post. As I said, its also occasionaly searching....



pythons73 said:


> well said,Browns.This topic could go on 4 years and still go nowhere,if ur buying 1 it should b up 2 the breeder 2 actually tell you what it is.Cheers


Did you read my first post?
"Many statements are made that you must trust/refer to the seller. What if the seller doesnt know.........ignorance does happen (plus occasionally head in the sand)?"
The thread Brown mentions of the 'pure coffs harbour coastal' is a case in point.

Can we please keep to facts.
No opinions please.


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## ambah (Aug 3, 2008)

I think people are going to have a bit of a problem with just facts, as not enough research has been done into the DNA of the species in those areas, we don't know how far they have spread/how far they travel in a life time, for all we know a huge percentage of diamonds could be distant offspring of intergrades somewhere down the line. Not to mention, the ones that could have been released into the wild. So most of what you will get, will be opinions.. which is unfortunate, but just the way things are..:|


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## Earthling (Aug 3, 2008)

Is this the Quote from Cockney red you meant Brown? I searched 20 pages of his posts and that was the onbly one with any info on markings.

"Its funny really, how this end of the spectrum rarely comes up. Its always the Diamond, intergrade thing, never the coastal, intergrade. As in the Diamond, the coastal end is just as variable, if not more. I normaly would say a loosely defined rosette along the latteral line of the body combined with lines and horseshoe in the head region is agood indicator of a coastal intergrade. As in all Morelia this is only a guideline & and not 100%, because of variation."


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## disasterpiece7.0 (Aug 3, 2008)

I pretty much agree with what you've said about intergrades and ways to tell them apart. I think I was sort of misunderstood in the coffs thread due to my own bad wording. I see those snakes as coffs intergrades, not 100% coastals. but at the same time the rosettes thing can get a bit confusing, particularly with striped morphs. 

I've seen many pure coastals with a broken lateral stripe and the blotched markings on top, quite a common form in coastals where the broken lateral markings can appear like rosettes. Also when the dorsal stripe comes into it, that is usually causes a similar blotching effect down the sides of the snake. This can be mistaken for rosettes, particularly in a snake with the spotted scales of a diamond. 

To me it looks like this has happened in the female coffs in the other thread, people have seen the blotched markings caused by the striped markings towards her lower end and seen these as some loose form of rosettes. As a result people started crying port mac. But to me these snakes look nothing like a true port mac, which appears much more like a diamond with rosettes on the sides and banded/blotched markings on top. 

My opinion anyway.

EDIT; I'm fairly sure that didn't make a whole lot of sense..... I suck at writing. Basically what I'm trying to say it that dorsal stripes can cause blotches down the sides of an animal that can be mistaken as rosettes, when in fact the striped morph can often cause the same blotching in pure coastal (no where near the intergrade zone) as well as other subspecies, including jungles.


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