# axanthic calico bhp??



## deebo (Feb 15, 2009)

has anyone put a calico bhp over an axanthic bhp and if so what were the results? would you end up with abhp that sheds its stripes/markings to make it appear almost patternless?

Was just wondering this as I was watching the cricket...

Cheers,
Dave


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## funcouple (Feb 15, 2009)

now i know why i dont like cricket. i guess you were bored with it. to answer your question. i havent done it. id love to have both in my collection, but id think you would breed as percentage of both in the clutch. hope theres someone that can tell me if im right or wrong


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## deebo (Feb 15, 2009)

haha, crickets not that bad but my mind just wanders a lot!


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## Ramsayi (Feb 15, 2009)

Is calico a genetic condition though?


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 15, 2009)

The morph (for lack of a better word) has been proven to be genetically inheritable although we are yet to understand at what level. The majority of 'calicos' around trace back to one breeder. In one of our breedings we have produced 4 'calicos' (3 girls, 1 boy) all siblings from a selective mating, time will tell how many more from later clutches will change.

This season I'll be doing an F1 backcross with a younger animal. Hopefully the results from that pairing will shed more light...


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## Hooglabah (Feb 15, 2009)

what is an calico 
and 
what is an axanthic


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 15, 2009)

Hooglabah said:


> what is an calico
> and
> what is an axanthic



'Calicos'...


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## m.punja (Feb 15, 2009)

you have me green with envy den very nice


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 15, 2009)

Ta mate, It's a fun project to work on.


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## zulu (Feb 15, 2009)

*re axanthic*

Neil sonnemann had a pairing of them last year,didnt see the results yet,hot looking snakes den!


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## levis04 (Feb 15, 2009)

They are unreal mate! well done Den! hope to see some hit the market this yr.


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

The loss of pattern or colour can be highly variable on calico snakes. Correct?
(Such as den's and neils compared to other almost patternless calico's recently posted)

Do calico ball pythons turn calico when they reach an age of sexual maturity or are they born calico in appearence?


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## andyscott (Feb 16, 2009)

Correct me if Im wrong (not a genetics wizz)

It is an interesting concept, but if you are starting from scratch, with a Calico and Axanthic.
It would take at least 9 years of selective breeding, before you had a white patternless BHP.
That is if you get lucky 1st time round, breeding the possable hets that the Calico and Axanthic produce.

You would need a Calico that is het for Axanthic and an Axanthic that has the Calico genes,
to produce an animal that is white with faded out pattern.
On top of that, you would have to wait until the animal matures before you see the results.



Den those Calicos are stunners mate.
There are only 2 people in Oz that can make me jealous of their BHPs 




> Hooglabah what is an calico
> and
> what is an axanthic


 
Hooglabah, this is an Axanthic BHP (No Yellow pigmentation)


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## mistymtn (Feb 16, 2009)

What is the difference between the WA Black & white BHP's & Axanthic BHP's?


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## TWENTY B (Feb 16, 2009)

iirc axanthic's are actually QLD locals that have no yellow or cream in thier colouring.
Much bigger than w.a's get.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Ta Zulu and levis, fingers crossed the F1 backcross helps us to understand a few things.

Reptilia. My personal opinion of these 'calicos' is that they are different to the calico colours seen in other overseas pythons. We use the term lightly as an explanation or example of colour. BHP's like mine, Neils, Swampies and other's aren't born showing the 'lack of melanin' patches , the colour is almost shed out around the age of sexual maturity. The phenomenon in change is as yet not understood. At first thought some opinions were that the change was similar to the ontenic/ontogenetic and hormonal blue changes in green pythons but seeing as the colour is shed out the similarities to these changes are very few...

Ta Andy, definitely a long process hey!

mistymtn. Most WA BHPs are naturally black and white, kind of a locale colour phase. Axanthics however are a recessive genetic mutation, the same basis as albinos; hets produced from an axanthic to normal pairing..


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## mark83 (Feb 16, 2009)

Awesome pics den. I cant decide what I want next. Woma or Black headed. You just made the decision alot harder. Maybe get both although that could put me in the doghouse for quite some time.


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## mungus (Feb 16, 2009)

Got myself a pair of Axanthic's on order for next year - cant wait.
Looks like the calico's fell through..................


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Hell sorry mate, fogot to call. Will try now.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 16, 2009)

thanks for the info guys just to recap 
a calico has less black pigment on the body
a Axanthic has almost no cream or yellow pigment.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Yes mate, the 'calico' BHPs in question shed out the brown and black colours replacing the dark scales with white, pink and apricot patches. In some cases the transformation in colour happens over the entire dorsal area.

An Axanthic essentially lacks yellow pigmentation.


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## andyscott (Feb 16, 2009)

Hooglabah said:


> thanks for the info guys just to recap
> a calico has less black pigment on the body
> a Axanthic has almost no cream or yellow pigment.


 

Axanthic has zero yellow and cream.
Pure B&W with shades of grey..


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## Khagan (Feb 16, 2009)

Den said:


> mistymtn. Most WA BHPs are naturally black and white, kind of a locale colour phase. Axanthics however are a recessive genetic mutation, the same basis as albinos; hets produced from an axanthic to normal pairing..



I don't get it.. If WAs are naturally black and white, then whats the difference between them and Axanthics besides the price tag i'm guessing =p you still ending up with a black and white bhp either way.. *shrug*.. Does Axanthic have more possibility for morphs or something?


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## andyscott (Feb 16, 2009)

Khagan said:


> I don't get it.. If WAs are naturally black and white, then whats the difference between them and Axanthics besides the price tag i'm guessing =p you still ending up with a black and white bhp either way.. *shrug*.. Does Axanthic have more possibility for morphs or something?


 

Although WA B&Ws are naturaly B&W when young, most go cream and have yellow in them as they muture. Also WA BHPs max out at 5 to 6 foot long.

An Axanthic is pure B&W (Zero cream/yellow pigmentation in their skin)
They are also a Qld python and will grow up and over 9 to 10 foot.

Axanthic is a mild form of Albinoisum.
WAs do have some yellow in them.


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## Dodie (Feb 16, 2009)

Mild form of albino or just a mutation that is the same but covers a differnt pigment?
Albino lacks black pigment (melanin)
Axanthic lacks yellow pigment (xanthic?)


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Khagan said:


> I don't get it.. If WAs are naturally black and white, then whats the difference between them and Axanthics besides the price tag i'm guessing =p you still ending up with a black and white bhp either way.. *shrug*.. Does Axanthic have more possibility for morphs or something?




I should have elaborated more on the black and white example. As Andy said, WA BHPs vary in their general colouration, Axanthics are quite different. Both are Awesome animals in themselves, both are impressive for different reasons.


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## Khagan (Feb 16, 2009)

I see.. Thanks for the explanations!


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## BenReyn (Feb 16, 2009)

.....
Den!
Lol, that photo on the sand had me drooling..:|
Thanks for sharing pictures everyone!
Ben.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

No worries Khagan. Ta Ben.

http://livingartreptiles.tripod.com/id62.html
A link explaning a little about genetics...Some explanations are a little off but the general idea is there.


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## solar 17 (Feb 16, 2009)

*calico's and others*

l think they are great....but l am suspicious after a couple of blood tests there are hepatic discrepencies [indifferences] in the haemotology in these lines...so l believe its possible at this stage its a genetic liver condition basically...[not that this is a bad criteria] a genetic trait none the less [imo]....cheers solar 17 [Baden]


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

solar 17 said:


> l think they are great....but l am suspicious after a couple of blood tests there are hepatic discrepencies [indifferences] in the haemotology in these lines...so l believe its possible at this stage its a genetic liver condition basically...[not that this is a bad criteria] a genetic trait none the less [imo]....cheers solar 17 [Baden]




I've heard a few similar things B, another theory is that it's a deficiency in the thyroid that causes the unexplained change. Or it could be a genetic mutation, the F1 back cross will explain more...Will take time though. We have proven the trait to be genetically inheritable... At the end of the day all morphs are essentially deficient in something whether it be no melanin or reduced colour in the pigment.


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## andyscott (Feb 16, 2009)

Dodie said:


> Mild form of albino or just a mutation that is the same but covers a differnt pigment?
> Albino lacks black pigment (melanin)
> Axanthic lacks yellow pigment (xanthic?)


 

I know it covers a differant pigment, I was trying to explain it to someone that isnt in the 5% of AP&S members that has studdied genetics.

Albino and Xanthic / Axanthic are both mutations that affect skin pigmentation.
Just affecting differant colors.

I said ''Mild form of Albinoisum",
To point out that it is a genetic mutation and not just a local coloring as in the WA BHPs.


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## No-two (Feb 16, 2009)

I fail to see how axanthic animals can only be from one locality (well qld as a whole). If it's got no yellow what so ever then it's axanthic, before the whole axanthic gene became apparent and started fetching more money people had axanthic animals and didn't even know.


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

Do all calico's become less patterned and lighter coloured animals? Or can they become less patterned and darker coloured animals also?
The bhp's dont seem to have a scatterwd or distorted pattern like other calicos of different species.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

No-two said:


> I fail to see how axanthic animals can only be from one locality (well qld as a whole). If it's got no yellow what so ever then it's axanthic, before the whole axanthic gene became apparent and started fetching more money people had axanthic animals and didn't even know.



No mate, Axanthics have no preference for locale, Andy just said QLD as an example to differentiate between his QLD Axanthics and WA animals. Axanthic is a descriptive name given to a genetic mutation affecting yellow pigment. There may well be Axanthic animals in the wild but you mustn't confuse a proven genetic trait with simple grey coloured locale colour phases..... Axanthics are snakes with a recessive gene that inhibits the production of yellow pigments, not a simple colour phase.... They follow the same recessive breeding 'rules' as Albinos (non-visual hets).


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## No-two (Feb 16, 2009)

I know the genetics of an axanthic and I'm still standing by there being many more around then people think, before they were regaurded as more money they were nothing special, still arent, post a nice looking adult and I'll be suprised, I've seen a few adults in the flesh and their babies are the most stunning bhp you could buy but the adults are gross.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Reptilia said:


> Do all calico's become less patterned and lighter coloured animals? Or can they become less patterned and darker coloured animals also?
> The bhp's dont seem to have a scatterwd or distorted pattern like other calicos of different species.



The patterns aren't altered in any way, only the pigment colour changes. I have never seen a light coloured animal turn 'darker' due to a 'calico' colour change. At a guess It's some sort of absence of melanin or dark pigment that happens around the age of sexual maturity. Maybe hormonal...

I use the term 'calico' loosely, to me these animals are totally different to other 'bred calico' animals. When the cause or full genetics are known maybe the name can be revised by the people that own them..


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

No-two said:


> I know the genetics of an axanthic and I'm still standing by there being many more around then people think, before they were regaurded as more money they were nothing special, still arent, post a nice looking adult and I'll be suprised, I've seen a few adults in the flesh and their babies are the most stunning bhp you could buy but the adults are gross.



Yeah matey, there very well could be more around. There could be more of any morph around than people think. Once again though, locale colour phases shouldn't be confused with a genetic abnormality. An abnormality that is easily duplicated with Homozygous or Heterozygous pairings.

I do have pics of impressive adults here but I won't post them on another’s behalf. To be perfectly honest I don't think he will bother posting just to satisfy your reservations... A waste of his time I'm sure...

Not sure why I'm having this discussion??


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

Den. Do you think as time progresses your bhp's will almost become patternless? or do you think they will hold the current pattern?


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## No-two (Feb 16, 2009)

Oh sorry, I'm not an experianced bhp breeder, I must've confused the "axanthics" with gross grey animals. Axanthics are only good now becuase they're worth more. Surely people don't actualy think a snake with severaly shades of discusting grey is nice.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Haha, it's all personal preference matey.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 16, 2009)

I tend to think along the same lines as Baden does.It seems to happen to some animals at vastly different ages.I have 2 here that are starting to lose pigment here and there and from what I have been told it progresses with each and every shed.One is around 5 years old and the other is around 20 !


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Reptilia said:


> Den. Do you think as time progresses your bhp's will almost become patternless? or do you think they will hold the current pattern?



That would be nice mate but the patterns will never change, only the pigment colour will. If and when more is known a few of the people working on them may breed them with some pinstripe animals, the goal being a near patternless white/pink BHP. Kind of like the animal in my sig only thinner bands.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Ramsayi said:


> I tend to think along the same lines as Baden does.It seems to happen to some animals at vastly different ages.I have 2 here that are starting to lose pigment here and there and from what I have been told it progresses with each and every shed.One is around 5 years old and the other is around 20 !



Yeah mate, interesting change hey. The most common age of change is 2.5yrs of age. I'm not sure why they change, there are many factors involved that could prove true. The F1 backcross I mentioned is a bit of a trial to determine if it is to be a proven genetic trait. So far I have had 4 change out of a clutch of 12. I also have a male here that is undergoing the change, he is a little small but hopefully next season (if not this one) he will work.


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## caustichumor (Feb 16, 2009)

I don't want to go to far offtrack, but does anyone know if the BHP known as "BumbleBee", (which I assume would be referred to as xanthic) Was a differant coloured animal from hatching or was it a gradual change?


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## Ramsayi (Feb 16, 2009)

For a change to be happening like it seems to be in my examples suggests to me that its a vit/mineral type deficiency or a problem with some organ,a genetic cause would be near the bottom of my list of probabilities. The reason I am leaning towards the former though is that the only change that has happened in this lot have been diet.Up until recently they have always been on a diet of rats now its predominantly quail.Maybe a coincidence but I doubt it very much given the ages involved.


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

Den said:


> That would be nice mate but the patterns will never change, only the pigment colour will. If and when more is known a few of the people working on them may breed them with some pinstripe animals, the goal being a near patternless white/pink BHP. Kind of like the animal in my sig only thinner bands.



I get ya, So the orange bands will just become lighter in colour and possibly keep losing pigment and eventually become patternless.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Yeah Rams, the thyroid thing has merit too. An abnormality in the chemicals released by the thyroid maybe?? Dunno, hence the planned F1 backcross. It will either confirm the genetic 'morph' link or confirm another abnormality present. An interesting project to work on. 

I don't believe food has anything to do with the change myself. I have never changed any of my animal’s diets, neither has a few other keepers that I've chatted to.

If you are interested we could take samples of all the 'calicos' (or most) in aus and run some tests. If you could take samples from yours maybe myself and others could do the same. Answer some more questions...


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

Lol, sorry den. They dont become patternless but just have a lighter pigment.
I thought i saw a pic of a patternless bhp but just found the pic and it still has pattern.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Reptilia said:


> I get ya, So the orange bands will just become lighter in colour and possibly keep losing pigment and eventually become patternless.




Kinda, I think the pigment in the bandings will always be darker (the same as Albino Darwins) and the background will be lighter. Pinstripe BHPs have very thin bands, introducing some pinstripe blood would in time reduce the thickness to the bare minimum. 

caustichumor; Dave from Pilbara Pythons could fill you in on the Bumble Bee. It is a WA animal mate, he owns it.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Reptilia said:


> Lol, sorry den. They dont become patternless but just have a lighter pigment.
> I thought i saw a pic of a patternless bhp but just found the pic and it still has pattern.



Lol, no worries mate. I replied just as you posted. lol


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

Definately an interesting project.
What do you think will be the result of a calico x calico mating?


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Dunno to be honest mate, time will tell I guess.


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## Retic (Feb 16, 2009)

You know how excited I am about this project, only slightly less than you I think  Ignore the rubbish, some people just want to argue.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

One more thing guys. Kind of out of left feild but If any of my posts on this or other subjects comes across as arrogant I apologise. Alot can be misconstrued through text. I just seem to be getting a few people off side lately, definitely not my intention.


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

When I was looking at some pics before i thought that this may be a calico with the pigmentation becoming darker, but it also seems to be losing pattern also.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

boa said:


> You know how excited I am about this project, only slightly less than you I think  Ignore the rubbish, some people just want to argue.



Cool, thanks Ash. I thought I was doing something wrong in order to become a magnet for arguments.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for the pics Reptilia, definately interesting. I'd love to see pics of the Bredl before it's change.


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## Retic (Feb 16, 2009)

No problem, believe me it is NOT you and I have long been a magnet for stupid comments


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## Reptilia (Feb 16, 2009)

so would i den. I know that theres other in existence. My friend got one off pails a couple of years back that is beginning to change.


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## ihaveherps (Feb 16, 2009)

Im also of the opinion that it is a organ/glandular driven morph, the age linked change doesnt really promote otherwise. That doesnt take away from the fact that it is inheritable, or even that failures or malfunctions in the systems are debilitating at all.... T- albinos (traditional albinos) have a genetic inheritable malfunction that makes them un-able to produce tyronaise, an enzyme utilised by the melanophores to produce melanin (dark pigment) .... T+ albinos, a malfunction in the melanophores themselves, so all the precursors (tyronaise and such) necessary to produce melanin are there, though for some reason the melanophores dont function correctly. This far, the calicos seem as stable as both of these examples.

Andyscott, I dont know where you plucked your random 9 yr strategy from lol. I can think of a few ways you could go about achieving the project, and none of them would take the best part of a decade.


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## zulu (Feb 16, 2009)

*re axanthic*

I saw some axanthics when i was over at stuart barnes a while ago,he has been producing them for a long time,he had some other types of bhps,i didnt take them all in as i was too busy looking at all the little gtps,just too much to handle at one time.


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## Troy06 (Feb 16, 2009)

i have a big calico male it looks like dens female with the eggs will breed it with female out of calico this year and i have sum 100% hets to xanthic that i will breed this year then i will breed sum xanthic females with my calico male so will let you no in about 4 to 6 years or so


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## paleoherp (Feb 16, 2009)

Great Thread


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## melgalea (Feb 16, 2009)

Den. those bhp's are stunners. absolutely gorgeous. cant wait to see what they can produce. 
mel


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## scout (Feb 16, 2009)

Ok, I've got a question. I havent read all this thread as im at work and just snuck onto the computer in my break. I have a Nt BHP that is loosing colour in a scale every time he sheds. At this stage they are on his belly but about 6/7 have changed so far.He is last seasons hatchling, so still young. Is he a possible calico, he wasnt sold to me as one, and have seen pictures of his parents and they are normal colours, or could something be wrong?


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

ihaveherps said:


> Im also of the opinion that it is a organ/glandular driven morph, the age linked change doesnt really promote otherwise. That doesnt take away from the fact that it is inheritable, or even that failures or malfunctions in the systems are debilitating at all.... T- albinos (traditional albinos) have a genetic inheritable malfunction that makes them un-able to produce tyronaise, an enzyme utilised by the melanophores to produce melanin (dark pigment) .... T+ albinos, a malfunction in the melanophores themselves, so all the precursors (tyronaise and such) necessary to produce melanin are there, though for some reason the melanophores dont function correctly. This far, the calicos seem as stable as both of these examples.
> 
> .




So on that basis would the 'rules' for an inheritable genetic trait still apply regardless of the cause? As in hets (visual or otherwise) with a Homozygous to wild-type pairing.

Ta Mels;-)


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## ihaveherps (Feb 16, 2009)

The rules always apply in genetics, though sometimes in the herp game there is tendency to use a super-simplified version of "the rules".


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Ta herps, so if it's an organ/glandular driven morph the F1 backcross would still prove it's basis of inheritability (recessive, co-dom)? Just want to clarify...


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Scout; Post a pic mate, would like to see if the change can happen at a young age.

It has me buggered how people get time to post in multiple topic threads with opinions and thoughts. This thread alone has taken nearly 2 hrs out of my day!


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## junglepython2 (Feb 16, 2009)

Den said:


> Ta herps, so if it's an organ/glandular driven morph the F1 backcross would still prove it's basis of inheritability (recessive, co-dom)? Just want to clarify...


 

Not all traits have 100% penetrance, if that's the case it will play havoc on your ratio's of offspring. Providing it is controlled by a single gene.


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## mistymtn (Feb 16, 2009)

What an interesting thread. Thanks for all the info!!


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## Jdsixtyone (Apr 12, 2009)

Where would you get a calico bhp and how much are they?


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## ssssmithy (Apr 12, 2009)

calicos start out as a normal looking bhp and turn calico at around 2-3years of age. Den has quite a few calicos pairings so hes your best bet to get onto. 
although remember its not really a proven thing,theres no way you can tell if the animal is going to change to calico or not.


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## Gnome73 (Apr 13, 2009)

are the calico's from a particular locality??


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## ssssmithy (Apr 13, 2009)

the calico mutation or gene is a naturally occuring thing so its not just common from one locality.
In bhp's i have seen it in QLD and NT'S locals animals. also occurs in other species.


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## hardcorey007 (Jun 3, 2009)

Den,

I know you use the term 'Calico' loosely, but wouldn't hypo be more fitting? After all the definition of the term 'Calico' means; 

•* Calico*
Calico animals develop varying amounts of white scattered patches, usually during later years of life, although some appear calico at birth. The spots are usually small, appearing as freckles which may form into larger blotches. Often the white is concentrated in areas where white pigmentation normally appears, such as around edges of markings.

And in ball pythons as an example the really do have patches of white. Here is a link with pics as an example; The Snake Keeper - Dan & Colette Sutherland

See what I mean? Your BHP's, while beautiful and I'd have one any day of the week, have a reduction of black (hypo) not patches of white (calico). 

These ones of swampies appear to be calico as they have the patches of white, http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/calico-bhp-pics-71784

I'm happy to be corrected about my thoughts. I'm just going off the definitions.

Cheers,

Corey.


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## kidsheart (Jun 3, 2009)

semi off topic but i found these axanthic bhp's on another forum. pretty awesome looking things.

Kingsnake.com - Herpforum - Axanthic Black Headed Pythons...http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1696228,1696228


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## pythons73 (Jun 3, 2009)

Derek breeds some stunning BHPs,nearly as good as Dens...LOL i think that deserves one off your nice BHPs dont you Den....


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## ssssmithy (Jun 3, 2009)

heres a pic of one of denvers which id say is "calico" more then hypo. hypo comes out of the egg where as these "calicos" dont they turn gradually. some clean up real nice as the pics so far have displayed but some dont like this one of the denvers that has recently just changed....

also hypos tend to get more black with age not loose black with age?













and some pics of what id call a "hypo" in bhp,more so then the "calicos".












and yeah these hot snakes were bred by denver

smit.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Jun 3, 2009)

Corey, As Smithy said 'calico' seems to be the closet "descriptive" term that fits for the moment purely because of the spirodic white/apricot patches. I wouldn't call them hypo, that term is thrown around far too much already imo. The closest thing to a hypo BHP I have seen is some we bred a while ago. Even with the reduced melanin under the chin/head and the absence of black on the body I still won't officially call them hypo until I see the results of this season's pairings. I sold some females to a mate a few years ago that are brighter than the one below... Still kicking myself but atleast they went to a mate.











Yeah mate I love Swampie's female, anything different gets me excited (as do most 'standard' BHPs for that matter). Ta Corey.

Definitely 73, D has some awesome BHPs. Would love it if he lived in Aus, I'd be knocking on his door looking for a hatchling trade!


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## hardcorey007 (Jun 3, 2009)

Den, Ssssmithy,

Thanks for clearing that up and putting up pics. I can definitely see how you can loosely call those ones 'calico' now. The pics on the first page of this thread just threw me because I couldn't see any white patches. It just looked hypo to me. That being said I would take the one I reffered to as hypo over the others any day. She is IMO a magnificent snake. I love her colours. I have always loved the colours in the one in your signature block Den. I have often found myself thinking about what I would give to get one that colour.

Thanks again guys.

Corey.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Jun 3, 2009)

No worries Corey, ta for the nice words. That female is even better in the flesh! Needless to say my security is top-notch and so is my aim... 

There are a few around that are similar. Neil has a very nice female, you've seen Swampie's, Kel has some from the same bloodline, not sure if they have changed though and I know of a few others. Wild looking animals...


EDIT; That aim thing was by no means meant for you. I'll send you a pm mate.


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## ssssmithy (Jun 3, 2009)

EDIT; That aim thing was by no means meant for you. I'll send you a pm mate.[/QUOTE]



bahahah take those crosshairs off me!!:lol:


but yeah no worries mate, and dens right shes a stunner in the flesh,very trick snakes indeed.

ta, smit.


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## hardcorey007 (Jun 3, 2009)

Den said:


> No worries Corey, ta for the nice words. That female is even better in the flesh! Needless to say my security is top-notch and so is my aim...
> 
> There are a few around that are similar. Neil has a very nice female, you've seen Swampie's, Kel has some from the same bloodline, not sure if they have changed though and I know of a few others. Wild looking animals...
> 
> ...


 
With a collection like your (and that just the ones I have seen shown on this site) I'd want top notch security too. Don't worry I didn't take offence to the comment about your aim. Even if it were aimed at me I've got thick skin lol.


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## hardcorey007 (Jun 3, 2009)

hardcorey007 said:


> With a collection like your (and that just the ones I have seen shown on this site) I'd want top notch security too. Don't worry I didn't take offence to the comment about your aim. Even if it were aimed at me I've got thick skin lol.


 
Oops that came off sounding like I think I am bullet proof. That's not what I meant. I meant that I can handle a harsh comment thrown my way. Damn you really have to watch what you write don't you because it is so easily taken out of context.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Jun 3, 2009)

Haha, definitely not "aimed" at you mate. Maybe should have edited that part instead of trying to clarify....lol


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