# Jaguar coastal carpet



## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

Iva attached a pic that i got from morelia.com , i hope the owner of this snake doesnt mind me posting the pic, to me it looks just like a proserpine marking wise, my male proserpine has the same markings down his sider about 1/4 way down his body. What do you guy's think?


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## MannyM (Apr 28, 2006)

I'd hit it!

And by that I mean... I WANT ONE!


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## Greebo (Apr 28, 2006)

That doesnt really answer his question does it?

I can see the similarities but Proserpines I have seen are more of a grey colour.


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## MannyM (Apr 28, 2006)

I thought his "what do you guys think" question was a general "what do you guys think of this lil beautie" type of question.

Sooooreeee. Sheesh.


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## OuZo (Apr 28, 2006)

Spike can you put up a pic of yours for comparison?


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## NinaPeas (Apr 28, 2006)

How dare you express your opinion Manny? What do you think this is, a public forum!? :lol: 

It's a funky looking snake, I can see a bit of the proserpine in there..


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## MannyM (Apr 28, 2006)

So is this one of those cross breeds that no one is allowed to like, or is it a natural morph?




Disclaimer: My terminology might be off, so please don't breath fire down my neck.


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## Greebo (Apr 28, 2006)

Don't take everything so seriously Nina just because I didn't put a smily face next to it. Take one of those chill pills.

Here's a pic of one of my Proserpines.


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## Retic (Apr 28, 2006)

No it's not a cross breed, Jags come from coastals. The ones we aren't allowed to like are all the other crosses/hybrids/mongrels/intergrades/bitzas
that are in fact often beautiful but are the spawn of the devil and will ultimately lead to the end of life as we know it


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## NinaPeas (Apr 28, 2006)

greebo, did you not see the :lol: and  after my post? I was just mucking around, duh! 

It was in response to:



MannyM said:


> I thought his "what do you guys think" question was a general "what do you guys think of this lil beautie" type of question.
> 
> Sooooreeee. Sheesh.


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## MannyM (Apr 28, 2006)

boa said:


> No it's not a cross breed, Jags come from coastals. The ones we aren't allowed to like are all the other crosses/hybrids/mongrels/intergrades/bitzas
> that are in fact often beautiful but are the spawn of the devil and will ultimately lead to the end of life as we know it





So it's ok to like this one then? In which case I think i've found my next python... sorry BHP.

Anyone have any more info on these guys? It's simply stunning.


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## Vat69 (Apr 28, 2006)

Manny try going to the US sites. Morelia.com, precisionreptiles.com, or just having a look on the kingsnake forums


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## aussiesnakelover (Apr 28, 2006)

i believe this python isnt even in autralia so dont get your hopes up MannyM but i do think so one very quitly and very hush hush someone in aus must have forms of coastals looking like jag's


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## fly2high (Apr 28, 2006)

heres a link to original breeder in europe with full histroy on Jags and many cool pics.

http://www.jaguarpython.com/

true Jags are not just the way they look its also a genetical trait. Jags are dominant and will produce Jags from breeding to normal coastals.
have a read on the link above it explains it all there.
cheers


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## krusty (Apr 28, 2006)

i love those jags i wish i had some.....


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

ill attach a pic of my proserpine when i get home(mums work atm) but pritty much what im saying is it looks more or less pattern wise like a proserpine, and with colours i wouldnt be supprised if it was just called a hypo prosepine . . . fell free to make comments in this topic bout that snake , it is a very nice snake


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

here is my male proserpine


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## CodeRed (Apr 28, 2006)

Spike14 said:


> here is my male proserpine



Spike, how old is that snake ... its very nice.


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## deathinfire (Apr 28, 2006)

awesome looking animal


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

bout a year ld now, is colour is much more lighter i just picked that pick cause u can see his pattern . . hes going to vet tommmorrow


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## SnakePower (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi Guys,
This is my proserpine female. She is a morph and looks a lot like a jag to me!!!
What do you think?? Hope you llike her, her colour is amazing! Enjoy... :shock:


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

very nice, i cant wait to see my male when he is full grown, he gets lighter in every shed ( he was a bub in that above pic) were are you located snake power? n how old is you female?


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## Jungleland (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi spike14 Nice carpet, can we get a head shot, Love to see the head pattern, Hey snake power, Very Nice!! Great Pic!
Here is one my female prosie getting her ready for this season.
Regards


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## Rep-Style (Apr 28, 2006)

Arent these new "designer snakes" just the offsping of animals that have been injected with a form of mutagen which alters highly recesive genes for certain pigmentations?


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

u lost me after injected  , will get better pics tongiht but dunno when they will be posted


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## krusty (Apr 28, 2006)

snakepower that is one great looking python,very very nice.


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## hugsta (Apr 28, 2006)

Jags are crosses, mcdowelli and IJ carpets.

Awesome looking proserpines.


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

here my male more pics, he is about due for a shed but when he does i will take some pics. .


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

here my male more pics, he is about due for a shed but when he does i will take some pics. .


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## NCHERPS (Apr 28, 2006)

fly2high said:


> heres a link to original breeder in europe with full histroy on Jags and many cool pics.
> 
> http://www.jaguarpython.com/
> 
> ...



Jags are great looking carpets aren't they, they are actually a co-dominant or incomplete dominant trait. You can breed a Jag to a normal and get 50/50.
There is a fatal problem which occurs breeding a Jag to a Jag, as the Super forms appear to be leucistic, but have either died in the egg or have died soon after due probably to defective lungs, but there is still alot of research to be done with the Jags.

There are also some stunning Hypo Jags and numerous other Jag crosses to.

Neil


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## hugsta (Apr 28, 2006)

I am sure it won't be long before we some out here, or ones that look like Jags.


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## Jungleland (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi Rep-style,

Not quite sure what you meant but the only injection I do with my herps are baytril and other antibiotics if required. Are you referring to Dr. frankestein??  Selectively bred animals for genetics and traits is part of my program, here's a few pics of juvies that came from selectively bred parents.

Regards


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## fly2high (Apr 28, 2006)

neil
well corrected, my mistake
cheers


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

jungleland that first pic the female u get ones like that often n how much u sell them for a pair?


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## fly2high (Apr 28, 2006)

jungleland 
nice animals you have there love the pic of a hypo female
and the rest of animals look awesome too.
cheers


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## Jungleland (Apr 28, 2006)

HI Spike 14,

Thanks for the pics, he is a nice looking boy!

Cheers


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## fly2high (Apr 28, 2006)

heres one of mine coastals bred last seasson


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

nice, jungleland, you still havent answer my question 8)


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## SnakePower (Apr 28, 2006)

hey Spike14,
I am located at the gold coast, Mitchling is about 18 months old!
Danm some of these hatchies are hot! Nice proserpine Jungle land!


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

I love your snake must keep in touch i wanna c her when she is an adult n might get a hatchie from u when she old enough


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## Jungleland (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi Spike 14,
I Should have some this season, Like anything I breed I grade them and price them accordingly P.M. me if you want some more Info.


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## SnakePower (Apr 28, 2006)

No worries Spike, probably '07 season! She certainly is a stunner!


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## purplefunkything (Apr 28, 2006)

oohhhhh, prossie pics, couldnt resist....


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## Spike14 (Apr 28, 2006)

hehe, my first thread that more then 3 people have replied to  pmd you snake power and jungleland


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

This is a genuine Jag, while there are some really nice animals here and some on this thread I haven't seen anything quite up to this standard YET. Jags are a coastal/coastal not a cross.


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

is that your snake? or over sea's? The main point i am tryna make about jags is i think the lines come from proserpine form coastals . . .


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## krusty (Apr 29, 2006)

they are all great looking pythons.well done


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

As I said there are none like that here (that I know of) so yes it's overseas. It's hard to say where the original parents came from but the first Jaguar was very different to it's parents. I think some Proserpine Coastals certainly have a Jag look about them.


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## SnakePower (Apr 29, 2006)

There may be no Jags exactly the same as the one posted from Morelia, but they do originate from coastals. Some of the examples posted here, are hell close to an overseas jag! We have the patterns and just colour to go. I say we're almost there, and I believe that some of what we have here is good enough to class as an Australian Jag!!! For sure!


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

I agree some of them are getting closer but it might be a few generations yet and don't forget we can only have Jag lookalikes, a bit like owing a kit car


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## NCHERPS (Apr 29, 2006)

SnakePower said:


> There may be no Jags exactly the same as the one posted from Morelia, but they do originate from coastals. Some of the examples posted here, are hell close to an overseas jag! We have the patterns and just colour to go. I say we're almost there, and I believe that some of what we have here is good enough to class as an Australian Jag!!! For sure!



Yes, but remember that the Jag isn't just a look, but a proven genetic morph. There isn't anything in Australia that looks like a Jag that has proven genetic's, is there?
Unless, someone has imported some Jags illegally, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Neil


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## SnakePower (Apr 29, 2006)

Why only Jag look alikes?? If Jags originated from coastals, there is absolutely no reason with the right selective breeding that we can duplicate a genuine Jag! I know that is the thought of several big breeders!


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## NCHERPS (Apr 29, 2006)

SnakePower said:


> Why only Jag look alikes?? If Jags originated from coastals, there is absolutely no reason with the right selective breeding that we can duplicate a genuine Jag! I know that is the thought of several big breeders!



I will try to give you a better example:

You want to create a albino, what do you do??
You try and find two hets to breed togeather, but what if there aren't any Hets around, you can't knowingly breed any or find any, you just have to be lucky to stumble across to animals that are Het for the same condition to produce the *genetic* morph(How likely is that to happen??).
Remember, selective line breeding won't create a genetic morph if you haven't got the genetic's there to start with.
So, a really nice looking jag lookalike Coastal crossed with a nice looking jag looking coastal won't give you Jag offspring, it will just give you normal coastals, some that may look like their parents.
I am not saying that you couldn't line breed really nice looking Jag lookalike coastals and get some stunning snakes, but they won't be a genetic morph, just a standard line bred animal, which I would be excited to own, I am sure.

The original coastal female was a fairly normal looking Coastal from memory, didn't look like the Jag.

Again, if there are illegal true Jag imports in Australia , then that's a different matter.

Neil


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## hugsta (Apr 29, 2006)

And the male was in Irian Jaya carpet, they were not a true mcdowelli/mcdowelli cross. Maybe those that don't believe should send the Barkers an email and ask them why they didn't get involved with the jag breeding programme.  

I think the jags are an awesome animal and would certaily love one, some of those with "made in US" stamped on them would be nice..... :shock: :lol:


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

dont belive every thing you are told hugsta, to my knowledge the first original jag was produced by crossing a normal mcdowelli with what was regared as a hypo-ish mcdowelli. So both originated from oz blood.
The sub-standard iran jaya jags came a bit later.


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

I wouldn't call them sub standard but yes as I said earlier there seems to be little doubt they were from 2 coastals. I can't see much point in saying they are anything else really unless the original breeder was concerned the purist Nazis would criticise him.


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

I would call them sub-standard, they are not near as nice as the originals IMO.


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

Well the Irian Jaya Jags are different but I'm not sure I would consider them sub standard as such.


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## Vat69 (Apr 29, 2006)

TB: don't you just wish sometimes that you were of 'great unwashed' and didn't see how the animal came to be bright yellow and you just saw this awesome looking bright yellow snake?


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

I think you are right, any animals needs to be appreciated for what it is and not necessarily how it came to be.


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## hugsta (Apr 29, 2006)

The jags are stunning animals especially the high yellows and whites. 

Trueblue, I don't believe everything I am told or read, but sometimes ppl have a hard time believeing what may be the truth......or is it??? My sources are pretty reliable and I certainly more reason to believe them than not. But, as in all things, there will always be conflicting stories. Which one is real?? Well, I guess we may never know........

boa, I do believe it was said to be of coastal to coastal due to purist concerns, but, may also be a bunch of hogwash. 

Either way, I still want one....LOL


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

http://www.jaguarpython.com/home.htm

Claims to be the first person to pruduce jags, probably is, read the story and all the pages very nice snakes on there espically the super hypo red jags, lst pic is my favorite


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## Dicco (Apr 29, 2006)

I don't really see anything wrong with people not liking something because of how it came about, it is after all their thoughts on the matter, he's just saying what he thinks not saying it's gospel and you all must follow. Some would think of Coastals as a sub-standard type of python, but really, if you keep coastals does it matter if someone thinks that? Doesn't worry me at all. Some people like snakes for the natural side of things and don't like people treating wildlife as pets, it's just their beliefs and there's nothing wrong with them seeing snake keeping differently to people who keep them soley as pets. I mean, I can see beauty in the odd hybrid, but I don't agree with them, so focus my attention on the beauty of the natural varients like TrueBlue, if someone says they think something is crap etc, does it really matter in the end if they feel that way


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

He was without doubt the first person to produce a Jag and I also have a extremely reliable source very close to where they were produced and he says there is no doubt they were coastal/coastal. As you rightly say Hugsta either way I want one


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## Vat69 (Apr 29, 2006)

Dicco: I agree. I couldn't care less what other ppl like/dislike, inlc. their reasons. I was just asking out of curiosity. Sometimes I wish myself that I didn't know how much nicer looking a nice diamond is over a dull brown coastal so I could buy cheaper animals :lol: But it's too late now... :roll:


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

i couldnt care less if someone didnt like one of my snakes, it is mine and if i like it thats all that matters, thet goes for hybrids colourbrids pythons and dragons


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

never said i disliked them just perfer the originals


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

it would be interesting if a group of people on this site from around australia could share around selected coastals etc to see what you could come out with eg my male proserpine for his patterning with junglelands hypo female, in the first pic etc and then u take one of that babies with a hypo proserpine catch my drift, would be a blast and would come out with some wicked snakes in the process (only using coastal carpets  )


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

hypo coastals


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

:shock: How many snakes do you have true blue? must have every species hey and all the rares :lol:


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

more


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

STOP TEASING ME! uve probably made about 30 sales from me now you know


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

But have you got any Jags ?


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

:roll: would be mine if he did :wink:


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

have a closer look at the more patterned hypo in the pic of three boa, not a true jag, but dam close to some of them.
will have some mind boggling hypos forsale in the seasons comming.


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

you have some very nice snakes TrueBlue, are you aiming to get some jaguar look alikes with your collection?


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

you never no what might pop out with the right seletive breeding, thats what makes it so much fun. but it takes a couple of generations to get the full on results. yes it all takes time.


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## Retic (Apr 29, 2006)

Very nice hypos especially the lighter ones but can't see any real similarity to a Jag to be quite honest. 
I look forward to seeing some of this seasons hypos, should I put my name down now ?


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

some of the jags are a bit ordinary which is what that animal resembales, trouble is its only the best of the jags that tend to be photographed for the net and the average ones arent seen much, but still hot animals.


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## Pike01 (Apr 29, 2006)

heres a couple that are getting there


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## TrueBlue (Apr 29, 2006)

nice pike, athertons by the looks of them. very nice indeed.


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## Pike01 (Apr 29, 2006)

Thanks Rob,yep Athertons, a couple of generations selectively bred.


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

nice snakes pike, so there atheon coastals? or jungles? sorry for dumb question


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## SnakePower (Apr 29, 2006)

I think they are atherton jungles!...?


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## Kris (Apr 29, 2006)

They are Atherton Jungles.


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## SnakePower (Apr 29, 2006)

Bloody AWESOME by the way Pike! Congradulations!


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## thals (Apr 29, 2006)

Wow, those athertons are awesome Pike, wish i could get me a pair of those :mrgreen:


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

very nice atheron pike, how did u produce her/him?


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## Spike14 (Apr 29, 2006)

and do you have a breeding program going to try n produce "jag look alikes" ?


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## MannyM (Apr 30, 2006)

aussiesnakelover said:


> i believe this python isnt even in autralia so dont get your hopes up MannyM but i do think so one very quitly and very hush hush someone in aus must have forms of coastals looking like jag's



Oh right. SO basically Jags are a morph selectively bred overseas from Australian Pythons. So they're basically ours, but we can't have them 

That sucks!


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## Retic (Apr 30, 2006)

Well no they aren't ours at all but yes it does suck that we can't have them though ;-)


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

we can have them , just if you get caught, you wont be keeping herps ever again :wink:


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## Pike01 (Apr 30, 2006)

MannyM said:


> aussiesnakelover said:
> 
> 
> > i believe this python isnt even in autralia so dont get your hopes up MannyM but i do think so one very quitly and very hush hush someone in aus must have forms of coastals looking like jag
> ...


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

lol what i mant buy rpoduced like inbreeing etc but u answerd that :wink: can we have more pics?


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## MannyM (Apr 30, 2006)

Pike, the atherton in your avatar... stunning!


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

i no ey! would ove to see some of its off spring


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## pythonkisses (Apr 30, 2006)

i want one grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## indicus (Apr 30, 2006)

What do i think?.... fine looking animal Spike.
There's some very nice 'Jag' like animals around these days; regardless of who and how.
You can see some great examples in coastals and jungles alike.....some of which are stunning;
You'd be hard pressed to tell them apart, from the Americian designer Jags.....
One can also safely assume; their here already....i'll be watching with interest.....
I think we'll all be amazed what will become available in the near future.
I guess the sad fact is; iit will soon be very hard to tell whats a real aussie morph and whats not.


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

hey indicus what snake is that in your avator and can we have a full body pic please?


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## indicus (Apr 30, 2006)

It's a jungle Spike....


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

i like him, very white, would that be classified a a 'black and white' jungle? ive nver seen a pic of a balck and white jungle before


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## MannyM (Apr 30, 2006)

Wow! Brilliant specimen. Haven't seen anything like it. One of yours Indicus?

P.S My Bredlie is going great mate.


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## indicus (Apr 30, 2006)

Sorry Spike....yes it is a black and white jungle.
Yes one of mine Manny....glad your Bredli is doing fine...well done mate.


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## NCHERPS (Apr 30, 2006)

Very very nice Indicus.


Neil


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## Spike14 (Apr 30, 2006)

nice snake indeed indicus, you have a breeding pir of black and white jungles?


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## fly2high (May 1, 2006)

stunning jungle indicus
cheers


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## Jungleland (May 1, 2006)

Hi Tremain,

That is one AWSOME carpet, Thanks for posting!

Cheers,
Joel


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## jess03187 (May 14, 2006)

wow.. i have two prossies and they look completely different to that! ha, its amazing how much marking vary from snake to snake! hm.. anyone else see the strong similaritys in head shape to a boa? i dunno.. is that just my opp? 
jess


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