# WA is asking for your help!!!!!!!!!



## Snowman (Sep 7, 2011)

*What’s in it for the other States?*
When reptile keeping became legal in WA nearly 10 years ago a large number of animals were able to be exported to the other states of Australia.

Animals such as:
Pilbara Stimson pythons
Wheatbelt Stimson Pythons 
Pilbara Woma’s
Pilbara BHP’s
Kimberley BHP’s
Pilbara Knob tailed Gecko’s
South West Carpet Pythons.
etc etc etc

By expanding the WA keepers list you will have access to even more WA animals, some that you already have access to, but like the wheatbelt locale stimi’s perhaps some different forms. 

You will also have a place to off load some of your animals at a decent price. Opening up the WA market (for more species) to the other states will work both ways. We only have a ban on importing Pythons. So if you breed gecko’s, colubrids, monitors, lizards etc and they are on our keepers list you can export them to WA.

At present we are lobbying the government for an expansion to our keepers list. We are asking for help in the form of people sending in an email to the Minister for Environment and Water.

If you can take the time to copy the bellow letter (or write your own), write the date at the top and your name on the bottom and email it to:
[email protected]

It would be greatly appreciated. Once you have sent an email, please come back to this thread and reply “letter sent”, to bump the thread for awareness and also to let us know how many people are sending letters.

Thank you!! 



_Hon Bill Marmion MLA
Minister for Environment and Water
Level 29, 77 St Georges Tce
Perth, WA, 6000_

(Date) 


Dear Minister 

Reptile Keeping System in Western Australia


Dear Minister

I am writing to express my concern about the reptile keeping system in Western Australia. The allowed reptile species list is very restrictive, especially when compared to those of the other states. DEC has still not reviewed the species list despite promising to do so within 12-24 months of its introduction in 2003.

Currently there are many species endemic to WA which can be kept legally in all other states, but we are unfairly prevented from keeping them legally in our own state. I seek an independent review of the system imposed on reptile keepers in WA, as DEC continues to stall meaningful discussion about this matter.

I urge you to raise this issue with your colleagues and in the Parliament as a matter of public interest. All reptile keepers in Western Australia are grateful for any assistance you can offer.


Yours sincerely



Your Name and address


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## Sinners121 (Sep 7, 2011)

letter sent.


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## Snowman (Sep 7, 2011)

Perhaps I was a bit optimistic thinking there were reptile lovers out there willing to help 

80 views and one letter sent...


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## Flaviruthless (Sep 7, 2011)

Letter Sent


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## snakeo (Sep 7, 2011)

sent best of luck man


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## dihsmaj (Sep 7, 2011)

Letter sent.


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## Snowman (Sep 7, 2011)

Thank you so much


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## snakeo (Sep 7, 2011)

all so used the guys emails at work and sent 6 more so far cheers


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## bullfrog (Sep 7, 2011)

hey mate just sent it


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## Wally (Sep 7, 2011)

Letter sent . I find it absurd that I can keep species endemic to WA here in Vic and yet you can't. RSP's come to mind!


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## GeckoGuy (Sep 7, 2011)

letter sent.


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## RickLeekong (Sep 7, 2011)

Omg yessssssss, grab this opportunity for sure

letter sent


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## Tassie97 (Sep 7, 2011)

We need to do this in Tasmania ....


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## SteveNT (Sep 7, 2011)

Done


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## Laghairt (Sep 7, 2011)

This is a great idea. We should do similar things for other state and Cth agencies.


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## Snowman (Sep 7, 2011)

It's good to see the people willing to make a difference. Thanks heaps.


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## Tristan (Sep 7, 2011)

letter Sent.
I want a RSP damn it


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## chase77 (Sep 7, 2011)

Done.



Tassie97 said:


> We need to do this in Tasmania ....



Put together one of these letters, and put it here, and i'm sure we'll all sign it.


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## Chrisy (Sep 7, 2011)

Email Sent 8)


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## Tassie97 (Sep 7, 2011)

yer but i don't really want to intervene with what is already happening i would probably make more of a mess with it all but hope it all happens for all of us :]


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## Snowman (Sep 7, 2011)

chase77 said:


> Done.
> 
> Put together one of these letters, and put it here, and i'm sure we'll all sign it.



You also need your local Herp society to back it up with a submission to the department with the wanted changes. The letters are an important part of pushing things through.


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## Tassie97 (Sep 7, 2011)

Snowman said:


> You also need your local Herp society to back it up with a submission to the department with the wanted changes. The letters are an important part of pushing things through.


yeah i think some of this is all sort of happened, the government just needs to do some stuff bout it and i will be happy.  getting placards next lol


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## stencorp69 (Sep 7, 2011)

nice work Trent


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 7, 2011)

Letter sent, good luck


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## HerpAddict (Sep 7, 2011)

Sent  I'm moving back to WA soon so hope this works or I can't take my babies


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## Jarrod_H (Sep 7, 2011)

sent


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## stim72 (Sep 7, 2011)

sent


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## missm (Sep 7, 2011)

sent


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## Nighthawk (Sep 7, 2011)

Done like a done thing


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## Claus68 (Sep 7, 2011)

email send


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## jordo (Sep 7, 2011)

WA and Tassie are the only states doing it right. 
Restricting people to keeping local species rather than importing potential pests is a smart plan to keep these unique ecosystems and protect the species within them. If you really care about our herpetofauna, have a re-think. You have plenty of options for pet reptiles you can keep already, appreciate them but don't be greedy.


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## MissVampz (Sep 7, 2011)

Sent! What a fantastic idea, I'd love to have a wider choice of reptiles to keep


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## Rach85 (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter Sent. Great Idea Snowman


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

jordo said:


> WA and Tassie are the only states doing it right.
> Restricting people to keeping local species rather than importing potential pests is a smart plan to keep these unique ecosystems and protect the species within them. If you really care about our herpetofauna, have a re-think. You have plenty of options for pet reptiles you can keep already, appreciate them but don't be greedy.


The problem is there are a lot of reptiles native to WA like RSP and wheeleri that aren't on our keepers list yet. 
I can't agree with you since there is no difference between me keeping a BHP from the Kimberley in Perth and someone keeping a scrubby from Qld in northern Vic. Once you take an animal out of it's natural range it's exotic. Regardless if it's the same man made state.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2011)

jordo said:


> WA and Tassie are the only states doing it right.
> Restricting people to keeping local species rather than importing potential pests is a smart plan to keep these unique ecosystems and protect the species within them. If you really care about our herpetofauna, have a re-think. You have plenty of options for pet reptiles you can keep already, appreciate them but don't be greedy.



Jordo, could you explain to us how could possibly any python species survive, not to mention become a pest in Tasmania? Or any tropical and sub-tropical species for that matter? The mind boggles!


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## Matt-to-the-K (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent!!!


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

jordo said:


> WA and Tassie are the only states doing it right.
> Restricting people to keeping local species rather than importing potential pests is a smart plan to keep these unique ecosystems and protect the species within them. If you really care about our herpetofauna, have a re-think. You have plenty of options for pet reptiles you can keep already, appreciate them but don't be greedy.



What unique ecosystems are you talking about - the lounge room? shed? games room? They are generally not all that unique, although my mate Craig has a pretty unique games room, but I don't think there's much species worth protecting in it.

Seeing that your from Victoria I imagine your statement to be a bit "do as I say not as i do" - just out of curiosity how many letters have you sent off to the Victorian Minister for the Environment requesting restrictions on reptile species in Victoria - especially given that there are many non endemic Victorian species in the system? 

When you have pretty much zero restrictions on keeping reptiles - especially endemic species - its easy to point the finger at others and call them greedy isn't it!


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## Greenmad (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter sent


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## Smithers (Sep 8, 2011)

Done


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## benninsw (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent x 3


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the re-write Jamie 
Also thank you to all the great people who have sent off a letter. I'm proud to see the Australian reptile community pitching in together to help out another State (as well as the people from WA).


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent  I hope this works!!

Got a 'read receipt' already >.> that was quick

Got ten more on the way, and recruiting workmates families and friends


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Awesome Firedrake. Keep them going! 

If you haven't sent one yet please do and get your families and friends on board too!!!!


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## Megzz (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent 

Thanks to everyone sending emails!!


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> Sent  I hope this works!!
> 
> Got a 'read receipt' already >.> that was quick



That's the automaic receipt. They will respond properly in the next few weeks. If you have the time shoot back anther response if their reply isn't acceptable when it comes. The more work this creates for them the quicker they will act on it. They have to reply to every email. It's policy


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

I've kept the email I sent, I used yours and added some extra bits and I'll probably send another one every week until something happens. Hopefully with enough attention it'll get us at least a couple of steps forward


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Exactly what we need Firedrake


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## jordo (Sep 8, 2011)

Snowman said:


> The problem is there are a lot of reptiles native to WA like RSP and wheeleri that aren't on our keepers list yet.
> I can't agree with you since there is no difference between me keeping a BHP from the Kimberley in Perth and someone keeping a scrubby from Qld in northern Vic. Once you take an animal out of it's natural range it's exotic. Regardless if it's the same man made state.


Good point. But I think since state boundaries is what we have to work with it's a better barrier than none. I think WA restricting imports is a great move because it protects the genetic uniqueness of populations in WA (rather than potential escapees or released pets tainting the gene pool)




Waterrat said:


> Jordo, could you explain to us how could possibly any python species survive, not to mention become a pest in Tasmania? Or any tropical and sub-tropical species for that matter? The mind boggles!



No, I couldn't explain that... I think we both agree that we're safe from pythons taking over Tassie. I'm thinking more along the lines of them eventually allowing species that might be able to persist eg: Christinus marmoratus or if imports is allowed then potentially mixing genetics with animals from mainland populations. I think Tasmanians have more of a reason to plea for a better list and allowing imports than WA do. And I'm all for it going ahead but stick to pythons, boyds, beardies and all the things that wont have a chance over there.



stencorp69 said:


> What unique ecosystems are you talking about - the lounge room? shed? games room? They are generally not all that unique, although my mate Craig has a pretty unique games room, but I don't think there's much species worth protecting in it.
> 
> Seeing that your from Victoria I imagine your statement to be a bit "do as I say not as i do" - just out of curiosity how many letters have you sent off to the Victorian Minister for the Environment requesting restrictions on reptile species in Victoria - especially given that there are many non endemic Victorian species in the system?
> 
> When you have pretty much zero restrictions on keeping reptiles - especially endemic species - its easy to point the finger at others and call them greedy isn't it!



No letters sent here, I'm not an activist and I'd be up against way too many keepers pushing to expand the keepers list anyway. Just expressing my opinion and starting some decent discussion (rather than reading 3 pages of "sent it"...)
As an example escaped pets has been the source of pest populations of water dragons in some areas around Melb. I'm not saying it happens much but it does happen, once value goes down people let their animals go in the bush or from escapees there is potential for feral populations to establish.
What do you really want out of reptile keeping, how many species will be enough? I haven't looked on the list but I'm sure there are plenty of options. Me personally, I keep a few species on the list, sure the grass is always greener on the other side but I'm happy with what I have.


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## Sinners121 (Sep 8, 2011)

im going to send one everyday if everyone did that i think in a few months they would crack


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

*WA current keepers list.
*
Category 1
No species.
Category 2
Scientific name Common name
1. Egernia napoleonis South-Western Crevice Egernia
2. Gehyra variegata Tree Dtella
3. Heteronotia binoei Binoes Gecko
4. Litoria caerulea Northern Green Tree Frog
5. Litoria moorei Western Green Tree Frog
6. Pogona minor minor Western Bearded Dragon
7. Strophurus ciliaris Northern Spiny-tailed Gecko
8. Strophurus spinigerus South-west Spiny-tailed Gecko
9. Tiliqua multifasciata Centralian Bluetongue
10. Tiliqua occipitalis Western Bluetongue
11. Tiliqua rugosa rugosa Bobtail
Category 3
Scientific name Common name
12. Antaresia stimsoni Stimsons Python
13. Chelodina oblonga Oblong Tortoise
14. Ctenophorus reticulatus Western Netted Dragon
15. Egernia kingii King Skink
16. Litoria splendida Magnificent Tree Frog
17. Morelia spilota imbricata South-western Carpet Python
18. Nephrurus levis Three-lined Knob-tailed Gecko
19. Oedura marmorata Marbled Velvet Gecko
20. Underwoodisaurus milii Thick-tailed Gecko
21. Varanus caudolineatus Stripe-tailed Pygmy Monitor
Category 4
Scientific name Common name
22. Aspidites melanocephalus Black-headed python
23. Aspidites ramsayi Woma Python
24. Chelodina steindachneri Flat-shelled Turtle
25. Chlamydosaurus kingi Frilled Lizard
26. Heleioporus albopunctatus Western Spotted Frog
27. Lophognathus longirostris Long-nosed Ta-ta Dragon
28. Varanus acanthurus Ridge-tailed Monitor
29. Varanus brevicauda Short-tailed Pygmy Monitor
30. Varanus tristis tristis Black-tailed Monitor
Category 5
Scientific name Common name
31. Acanthopis antarcticus Southern Death Adder
32. Acanthopis pyrrhus Desert Death Adder
33. Acanthopis wellsi Pilbara Death Adder
34. Liasis olivaceus Olive Python
35. Notechis scutatus Tiger Snake
36. Pseudechis australis Mulga Snake
37. Pseudechis butleri Spotted Mulga Snake
38. Pseudonaja affinis affinis Dugite
39. Pseudonaja nuchalis Gwardar
40. Varanus gouldii Goulds Monitor
41. Varanus rosenbergi Southern Heath Monitor
*
COMPARED TO SAY.......
*
*NSW Keeping list
*Turtles
E2018 Chelodina canni Cann’s Snake-necked Turtle
C2017 Chelodina longicollis Snake-necked Turtle
G2019 Chelodina oblonga Oblong Turtle
Y2028 Elseya dentata Northern Snapping Turtle
K2029 Elseya latisternum Saw-shelled Turtle
Y2776 Elusor macrurus Mary River Turtle
E2034 Emydura macquarii Murray Short-necked Turtle
T2031 Emydura macquarii dharra Macleay River Turtle
T2039 Emydura macquarii dharuk Sydney Basin Turtle
T2002 Emydura macquarii emmotti Emmott’s Short-necked Turtle
T2032 Emydura macquarii gunabarra Hunter River Turtle
C2033 Emydura macquarii kreffti Krefft’s Short-necked Turtle
G2035 Emydura macquarii signata Brisbane River Turtle
Q2020 Macrochelodina rugosa Northern Snake-necked Turtle
Dragons
T2037 Amphibolurus burnsi Burns’ Dragon
E2246 Amphibolurus gilberti Gilbert’s Dragon
M2194 Amphibolurus muricatus Jacky Lizard
Z2195 Amphibolurus nobbi Nobbi Dragon
Y2248 Amphibolurus temporalis Swamplands Dragon
Q2196 Ctenophorus nuchalis Central Netted Ground-dragon
W2199 Ctenophorus pictus Painted Ground-dragon
Z2223 Diporiphora australis Tommy Roundhead
C2245 Hypsilurus spinipes Southern Forest Dragon
A2252 Physignathus lesueurii Water Dragon
K2177 Pogona barbata Common Bearded Dragon
G2775 Pogona henrylawsoni Downs Bearded Dragon
G2191 Pogona minor minima Western Bearded Dragon
Y2192 Pogona minor minor Dwarf Bearded Dragon
Y2204 Pogona vitticeps Central Bearded Dragon
E2182 Rankinia diemensis Mountain Heath Dragon
Monitors
G2263 Varanus acanthurus Spiney-tailed Monitor
Q2268 Varanus gilleni Pygmy Mulga Monitor
G2271 Varanus gouldii Sand Monitor
M2282 Varanus tristis Black-Headed Monitor
Skinks
A2464 Acritoscincus platynotum Red-throated Skink
W2331 Cryptoblepharus virgatus Cream-striped Wall Skink
W2375 Ctenotus robustus Eastern Striped Skink
E2386 Ctenotus taeniolatus Copper-tailed Skink
M2574 Cyclodomorphus casuarinae Tasmanian She-oak Skink
Z2575 Cyclodomorphus gerrardii Pink-tongued Skink
T2005 Cyclodomorphus michaeli Mainland She-oak Skink
Y2408 Egernia cunninghami Cunningham’s Skink
W2411 Egernia frerei Major Skink
A2412 Egernia hosmeri Hosmer’s Skink
C2413 Egernia inornata Desert Skink
E2414 Egernia kingii King’s Skink
K2417 Egernia major Land Mullet
Z2419 Egernia modesta Eastern Ranges Rock-skink
K2425 Egernia saxatilis Black Rock Skink
Z2427 Egernia stokesii Gidgee Skink
Q2428 Egernia striolata Tree Skink
E2430 Egernia whitii White’s Skink
S2437 Eremiascincus fasciolatus Narrow-banded Sand-swimmer
U2438 Eremiascincus richardsonii Broad-banded Sand-swimmer
K2557 Eulamprus quoyii Eastern Water Skink
Z2559 Eulamprus tenuis Barred-sided Skink
M2450 Lampropholis delicata Garden Skink
Z2451 Lampropholis guichenoti Grass Skink
G2475 Lerista bougainvillii South-eastern Slider
W2519 Menetia greyii Common Dwarf Skink
U2526 Morethia boulengeri South-eastern Morethia Skink
U2578 Tiliqua nigrolutea Blotched Blue-tongue
Z2583 Tiliqua rugosus Shingleback
Y2580 Tiliqua scincoides Common Blue-tongue
Legless Lizards
U2170 Lialis burtonis Burton’s Snake-Lizard
E2174 Pygopus lepidopodus Common Scaly-Foot
G2175 Pygopus nigriceps Western Scaly-Foot
Geckoes
M2126 Christinus marmoratus Marbled Southern Gecko
Z2071 Diplodactylus steindachneri Box-patterned Gecko
C2077 Diplodactylus vittatus Eastern Stone Gecko
C2085 Gehyra australis Top-end Dtella
U2082 Gehyra dubia Dubious Dtella
A2092 Gehyra variegata Variegated Dtella
A2104 Hemidactylus frenatus Asian House Gecko
C2105 Heteronotia binoei Bynoe’s Gecko
E2106 Heteronotia spelea Desert Cave Gecko
K2109 Lucasium damaeum Beaded Gecko
K2777 Nephrurus amyae Centralian Rough Knob-tailed Gecko
U2110 Nephrurus asper Prickly Knob-tailed Gecko
W2111 Nephrurus laevissimus Pale Knob-tailed Gecko
A2112 Nephrurus levis Smooth Knob-tailed Gecko
M2778 Nephrurus sheai Northern Rough Knob-tailed Gecko
C2113 Nephrurus stellatus Starred Knob-tailed Gecko
Y2116 Oedura castelnaui Northern Velvet Gecko
K2117 Oedura coggeri Northern Spotted Velvet Gecko
G2131 Oedura filicipoda Fringe-toed Velvet Gecko
M2118 Oedura lesueurii Lesueur’s Velvet Gecko
Z2119 Oedura marmorata Marbled Velvet Gecko
A2120 Oedura monilis Ocellated Velvet Gecko
G2123 Oedura robusta Robust Velvet Gecko
Y2124 Oedura tryoni Southern Spotted Velvet Gecko
S2129 Phyllurus platurus Broad-tailed Gecko
Q2128 Saltuarius cornutus Northern Leaf-tail Gecko
E2130 Saltuarius salebrosus Rough-throated Leaf-tail Gecko
E2687 Saltuarius swaini Southern Leaf-tailed Gecko
K2053 Strophurus ciliaris Northern Spiny-tailed Gecko
W2059 Strophurus intermedius Southern Spiny-tailed Gecko
W2075 Strophurus taenicauda Golden Spiny-tailed Gecko
E2078 Strophurus williamsi Eastern Spiny-tailed Gecko
U2138 Underwoodisaurus milii Thick-tailed Gecko
Snakes - non-venomous species
G2619 Antaresia childreni Children’s Python
U2818 Antaresia maculosa Spotted Python
U2622 Antaresia perthensis Pygmy Python
W2819 Antaresia stimsoni Stimson’s Python
Q2612 Aspidites melanocephalus Black-headed Python
C2633 Dendrelaphis punctulata Common Tree Snake
Q2620 Liasis mackloti Water Python
S2621 Liasis olivaceus Olive Python
C2825 Morelia spilota Carpet Python (only for “subspecies” not known)
W2623 Morelia s. bredli Centralian Carpet Python
T2023 Morelia s. cheynei Jungle Carpet Python
T2029 Morelia s. imbricata Western Carpet Python
T2024 Morelia s. mcdowelli Eastern Carpet Python
T2025 Morelia s. mcdowelli / spilota Carpet/Diamond Python (natural intergrade)
T2026 Morelia s. metcalfei Murray/Darling Carpet Python
T2027 Morelia s. spilota Diamond Python
T2028 Morelia s. variegata Top End Carpet Python
M2638 Stegonotus cucullatus Slaty-grey Snake
Snakes - mildly-venomous species
U2630 Boiga irregularis Eastern Brown Tree Snake
T2036 Boiga i. fusca Northern Brown Tree Snake
W2711 Brachyurophis australis Australian Coral Snake
M2646 Cacophis krefftii Southern Dwarf Crowned Snake
Z2647 Cacophis squamulosus Golden-crowned Snake
Z2655 Demansia psammophis Yellow-faced Whipsnake
Y2660 Denisonia devisi De Vis’ Banded Snake
S2665 Drysdalia coronoides White-lipped Snake
K2805 Drysdalia rhodogaster Mustard-bellied Snake
C2669 Furina diadema Red-naped Snake
U2674 Hemiaspis signata Black-bellied Swamp Snake
M2726 Parasuta dwyeri Dwyer’s Snake
U2014 Carettochelys insculpta Pig-nosed Turtle
S2021 Chelodina steindachneri Flat-shelled Short-necked Turtle
T2013 Elseya belli Bell’s Turtle
T2018 Elseya irwinii Yellow-headed Snapping Turtle
T2019 Elseya lavarackorum Lavarack’s Turtle
T2020 Elseya tanybaraga Northern Yellow-faced Turtle
T2022 Emydura australis North-west Red-faced Turtle
Y2036 Emydura subglobosa Painted Short-necked Turtle
K2037 Emydura victoriae Northern Red-faced Turtle
T2034 Emydura sp. Leichhardt River Short-necked Turtle
T2030 Macrochelodina burrungandjii Sandstone Long-necked Turtle
A2016 Macrochelodina expansa Broad-shelled Snake-necked Turtle
K2045 Rheodytes leukops Fitzroy Turtle
Geckoes
S2049 Cyrtodactylus louisiadensis Ring-tailed Gecko
S2057 Diplodactylus galeatus Mesa Gecko
W2083 Gehyra montium Centralian Dtella
Z2135 Pseudothecadactylus lindneri Northern Giant Cave Gecko
T2001 Saltuarius wyberba Granite Leaf-tailed Gecko
Z2055 Strophurus elderi Jewelled Gecko
W2139 Underwoodisaurus sphyrurus Granite Belt Thick-tailed Gecko
Monitors
K2733 Varanus baritji Black-spotted Spiny-tailed Monitor
Y2264 Varanus brevicauda Short-tailed Pygmy Monitor
K2265 Varanus caudolineatus Stripe-tailed Monitor
Z2267 Varanus giganteus Perentie
Y2272 Varanus indicus Mangrove Monitor
Q2284 Varanus kingorum Long-tailed Rock Monitor
K2273 Varanus mertensi Mertens’ Water Monitor
M2274 Varanus mitchelli Mitchell's Water Monitor
S2285 Varanus panoptes Yellow-spotted Monitor
Q2276 Varanus primordius Northern Ridge-tailed Monitor
W2287 Varanus rosenbergi Heath Monitor
W2279 Varanus spenceri Spencer's Monitor
Y2280 Varanus storri Storr’s Monitor
K2281 Varanus timorensis Spotted Tree Monitor
Z2283 Varanus varius Lace Monitor
S2269 Varanus glauerti Kimberley Rock Monitor
Skinks
S2305 Carlia coensis Coen Rainbow-skink
M2370 Ctenotus pantherinus Leopard Ctenotus
K2409 Egernia depressa Pygmy Spiny-tailed Skink
K2213 Egernia mcpheei Eastern Crevice-skink
E2422 Egernia pulchra South-western Rock-skink
Y2424 Egernia rugosa Yakka Skink
T2008 Eulamprus tryoni Tryon’s Skink
Q2584 Gnypetoscincus queenslandiae Prickly Forest Skink
S2577 Tiliqua multifasciata Centralian Blue-tongue
W2579 Tiliqua occipitalis Western Blue-tongue
Dragons
G2247 Amphibolurus longirostris Long-nosed Dragon
K2221 Chlamydosaurus kingii Frilled Lizard
A2180 Ctenophorus cristatus Crested Dragon
C2181 Ctenophorus decresii Tawny Dragon
Y2184 Ctenophorus fionni Peninsula Dragon
G2203 Ctenophorus vadnappa Red-barred Dragon
W2243 Hypsilurus boydii Boyd’s Forest Dragon
E2190 Pogona microlepidota Small-scaled Bearded Dragon
K2193 Pogona mitchelli North-west Bearded Dragon
G2255 Tympanocryptis lineata Lined Earless Dragon
Snakes
G2627 Acrochordus arafurae Arafura File Snake
S2613 Aspidites ramsayi Woma Python
A2632 Dendrelaphis calligastra Northern Tree Snake
E2634 Enhydris polylepis Macleay's Water Snake
C2617 Liasis albertisii White-lipped Python
E2618 Morelia amethistina Scrub Python
A2616 Morelia viridis Green Python
G2599 Ramphotyphlops nigrescens Blackish Blind Snake
K2629 Tropidonophis mairii Keelback
A2624 Morelia carinata Rough-scaled Python
Class 2 Category 1
W2675 Hoplocephalus bitorquatus Pale-headed Snake
A2676 Hoplocephalus bungaroides Broad-headed Snake
C2677 Hoplocephalus stephensii Stephens' Banded Snake
Z2727 Parasuta flagellum Whip Hooded Snake
K2813 Parasuta spectabilis Spectacled Hooded Snake
W2691 Pseudechis colletti Collett’s Snake
C2693 Pseudechis porphyriacus Red-bellied Black Snake
M2734 Vermicella annulata Eastern Bandy-bandy
Class 2 Category 2
A2640 Acanthophis antarcticus Southern Death Adder
Y2804 Acanthophis praelongus Northern Death Adder
C2641 Acanthophis pyrrhus Desert Death Adder
W2615 Austrelaps ramsayi Highlands Copperhead
E2642 Austrelaps superbus Lowlands Copperhead
E2650 Cryptophis nigrescens Eastern Small-eyed Snake
Q2680 Notechis ater Black Tiger Snake
S2681 Notechis scutatus Common Tiger Snake
U2690 Pseudechis australis Mulga Snake
M2814 Pseudechis butleri Butler’s Snake
A2692 Pseudechis guttatus Spotted Black Snake
K2697 Pseudonaja modesta Ringed Brown Snake
M2698 Pseudonaja nuchalis Western Brown Snake
E2722 Suta suta Myall Snake
Class 2 Category 3
K2689 Oxyuranus microlepidotus Western Taipan
Y2688 Oxyuranus scutellatus Taipan
Z2699 Pseudonaja textilis Common Brown Snake
G2723 Tropidechis carinatus Rough-scaled Snake


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## chase77 (Sep 8, 2011)

I'd be sh***y too if i could only keep a woma, BHP, SWC, olive or a stimson too.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

And to keep an olive it costs $300 a year...and you need I think 4 years experience and an inspection of your property because it's on the same list as vens on a cat5 license..


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

chase77 said:


> I'd be sh**y to if i could only keep a woma, BHP, SWC, olive or a stimson too.



Did you notice olives are cat 5 next to death adders, tiger snakes etc.... Not many keepers have a cat 5 license over here. And it's $300 a year for a Cat 5 license.

beat me too it Firedrake.


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## jordo (Sep 8, 2011)

It's a decent list, remember the days you could have nothing at all? Most people just keep levis, bluetongues, beardies and pythons anyway.


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

jordo said:


> No letters sent here, I'm not an activist and I'd be up against way too many keepers pushing to expand the keepers list anyway. Just expressing my opinion and starting some decent discussion (rather than reading 3 pages of "sent it"...)



:shock: Wow I'm guessing you’re a student of fatalism then - as I've said elsewhere the biggest waste of time is expressing disatisfaction on a forum and not undertaking any steps to bring about change. Win or lose




> As an example escaped pets has been the source of pest populations of water dragons in some areas around Melb. I'm not saying it happens much but it does happen, once value goes down people let their animals go in the bush or from escapees there is potential for feral populations to establish.
> 
> What do you really want out of reptile keeping, how many species will be enough? I haven't looked on the list but I'm sure there are plenty of options. Me personally, I keep a few species on the list, sure the grass is always greener on the other side but I'm happy with what I have.



In your previous post you mentioned "If you really care about our herpetofauna, have a re-think " but you as you have posted above you haven't even informed yourself of the discussion to express an opinion that adds anything more than 20 posts of "sent it". Apart from anything we in WA would be happy just to be able to keep our local endemic species that are freely kept interstate, the discussion is not about importing animals into WA but us being able to keep local species. 

Have an opinion sure but add something to the discussion by reading not only the original post but the subject matter you are commenting on.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

Make that 9 on their way.

This is a response I got from a work collegue..


My response as a DEC certified wildlife carer….

Currently as the species are being caught wild and placed into to domestic situations, I’m not able to support the letter.

When the government adopts a system where a limited gene pool is established and documented captive breeding is the norm, I may change my views and be supporting.

The drama is that wild caught snakes are taken from natural habitat – which is against conservation principle and encourages poachers taking our protected species.
*Australia’s reptiles are so in demand overseas that the live trade of native reptiles is second only to drugs in illegal trade in Australia*. One reptile can fetch up to *$80 000.* 

The* BIG* issue that a poacher can take an threatened species and get $80 000 for it..

If he gets caught the biggest fine that WA gives is maximum *$10 000 and NO jail time…*

I think the pressure should be on the government to review it’s penalty system and bring that in line with other states where the fines are up to $280 000 and 2 years jail time.

If you are interested have a look at the proposed snake keeping rules that are being introduced in NT – they include DNA testing of all reptiles to minimise poachers taking form the wild and to build up stock of captive breed snakes – which are happier and protects our precious wildlife.

I hope this explains why DEC aren’t making any moves to increase the species that are allowed to be kept in captivity, as it increases the illegal trade.

DEC are supporter of well set up breeding programs and WA isn’t up to standard yet.


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> Make that 9 one their way.
> 
> This is a response I got from a work collegue..
> 
> ...



:shock::shock: Double wow - It is amazing how uniformed people are, maybe its a condition to be certified by DEC? Legal taking of reptile species encourages poaching? Given that DEC regularly export native fauna interstate would make them the biggest poacher of all then.

I can see why we have the system we have got - these people actually vote!!


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Clearly your work collegue has no understanding of what is happening in this state. The WA herp society asked in their submission to stop the wild taking of animals that are in great numbers in captivity. DEC declined to stop wild taking and encourage it over captive breeding. DEC restricts the number of captive bread clutches a keeper can sell in one year. They limit captive breeding as wild taking has royalties attached to each specimen. Captive breeding has no royalties attached. To sell more than one clutch per year you need to pay for a dealers license. Which is $1000 per year (I guess they get their royalties one way or another!) Many of the animals we are seeking could be sourced from captive bred stock already.... Inform your colleague


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## Sinners121 (Sep 8, 2011)

personally i think that is imediatly solved if we in W.A are allowed to trade more than one clutch per species a year. beat me to it snowman


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## jordo (Sep 8, 2011)

Stencorp, I contribute to conservation in my own ways. But in terms of licensing I think it's a battle I couldn't win so I'm not going to try. However expressing my opinion might just make someone think twice about it from a different perspective. Of course I don't think I'll change anyones minds on this forum, once again I know it's a battle that can't be won, just putting it out there that's all.


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## angie90 (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent.
I'm also going to add how absurd it is to be able to keep rabbits in WA, yet we can't keep most native reptile species. In QLD you can't keep rabbits at all! Everything is so backward here.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

Snowman I'm already on it. She also knows fully how much I support this and that's not the sort of response I even expected from her. I think she's been brain washed  I don't mind that it's her choice not to support it but to argue that DEC aren't in it for the money is astounding... I'm quite disappointed honestly.


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## AndrewHenderson (Sep 8, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> I hope this explains why DEC aren’t making any moves to increase the species that are allowed to be kept in captivity, as it increases the illegal trade.



If your work collegue genuinly thinks this then they are retarded. Keeping lists and illegal collecting are 2 seperate issues and chaging one will never affect the other because the people wanting the keepers list expanded are doing the right thing. People illegally taking don't give 2 ******s what is or isn't on the list, they are taking it anyway.



woodys90 said:


> Sent.
> I'm also going to add how absurd it is to be able to keep rabbits in WA, yet we can't keep most native reptile species. In QLD you can't keep rabbits at all! Everything is so backward here.



Uhhh you can keep rabbits here hey? I'm sure I saw the garden center here selling them.


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

jordo said:


> .... However expressing my opinion might just make someone think twice about it from a different perspective. Of course I don't think I'll change anyones minds on this forum, once again I know it's a battle that can't be won.....



Yep that's possibly true but certainly not with out informing yourself on the subject matter of the topic of the thread.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

I know, I tried telling her that. Apparently because our fine is only $10000 and there's no jail time here compared to $28000 and jail time in the eastern states makes them more likely to do it here....except if that were true it wouldn't make an inkling of difference because they'd already be doing it!!!!


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

To put it in perspective and as posted elsewhere,

Here is a typical email I send off to the Minister. If you are happy with the system the way it is then do nothing - but complaining on the forum and doing nothing is the ultimate waste of time. It might initially take a little time to type the first email but each time you send one off it gets easier and DOES make a difference.

Dear Minister,
I refer to my previous emails on the West Australian Herpetological Society’s submissions to your office and the Department of Environment & Conservation. In previous emails we have requested clarification from your department regarding the details of our last meeting with them (May 2011), which have still not been clarified – specifically the following point;

From: Stephen Wyndham
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 10:04 PM
To: Wyre, Gordon
Cc: Mell, David; [email protected]
Subject: DEC Wahs meeting

*Increased Species*

Gordon Wyre has requested the Department be provided by the society an initial list of 6 animals to be submitted for assessment of suitability for addition to an expanded species list. It is expected that the assessment of the initial six animals will take approximately 6 months and at this time a decision will be made on the addition of them to the keeping species list. It is would be reasonable to expect this to be at or near January 2012. It was also indicated; animals currently kept and established in captivity (in WA or interstate) with known husbandry care information, would best suited selection in the initial list as it would aid in the assessment process. This initial process of assessment will determine the additional resources required by the department to assess the larger list included in the societies submission to DEC. The Department expects that the assessment of the expanded list would be completed in 12 months after the initial list of 6 assessment period is completed – namely 12 to 18 months.

Department officer David Mell’s response, following, doesn’t clarify the society’s understanding of the meeting. The society has no faith in the department reviewing the approved keeping list in 5 years times as this was initially supposed to have taken place in 2005 and is still yet to take place in 2011. Any delay to expand the approved herpetofauna keeping list as outlined in the society’s submission is seen as a stalling tactic by DEC. 

From: Mell, David [mailto[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 1:52 PM
To: Stephen Wyndham
Subject: WAHS Meeting

Increased Species – Expansion of the species list will be limited and will not be annual – perhaps the list would be reviewed every 5 years. DEC will use an initial 6 species provided by WAHS to assess and then review the process and time investment to determine impact on resources. At the conclusion of this process DEC will determine the extent to which further assessments can be made. Any additional species approved need to be added to the Regulations subject to Ministerial approval for them to be reflected in the list of pet herpetofauna. This process is not as onerous for example as amending the Act, but it does involve amending legislation.

It is difficult to understand the department’s reluctance to agree to expand the keeping list as outlined in our submission when many of the species requested and many of them endemic to the WA, are readily kept interstate. There are several python species in WA that the department has actively co-operated in exporting interstate (and then importing back again - despite the supposed risk of IBD), whose offspring are now available to the pet keeping hobby interstate – this in itself is not an issue, but the fact that the hobby in WA don’t have access to the same species on the approved keeping list beggars believe at the inequitable treatment of our own state’s government department. 

I have included below the recent price list for John Weigel’s Snakeranch (below). John Weigel was involved with collecting the Rough Scale Pythons from north west WA and DEC provided him with the permits to export them, yet DEC hasn’t approved the animal for keeping in WA! I understand the department recently exported a number of the Rough Scale Pythons from the Broome office, again it is hard to understand the logic of this when they will end up in the pet trade for interstate hobbyists and not be available locally. Further to the Rough Scale python and also highlighted in green is the pygmy python which is again endemic to the state – WA keepers aren’t able to keep the animal but it is freely available to interstate keepers. 

I would be astonished if your office didn’t see the incongruous treatment of the WA herpetofauna keeping hobby by the DEC as outlined in this email and as such I request the minister direct the department to approve the expanded keeping list as outlined in our submission.

Snake Ranch price list http://www.snakeranch.com.au/2020-price-list/


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter sent...Again


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## Tassie97 (Sep 8, 2011)

Snowman said:


> *WA current keepers list.
> *
> Category 1
> No species.
> ...



Tasmania's list... 

Agamidae (Dragons)

_Rankinia diemensis_ (Mountain Dragon)
Scincidae (Skinks)

_Acritoscincus duperreyi_ (Three-lined Skink)
_Cyclodomorphus casuarinae_ (She-oak Skink) (endemic)
_Egernia whitii_ (White's Skink)
_Lampropholis delicata_ (Delicate Skink)
_Lerista bougainvillii_ (Bougainville's Skink)
_Niveoscincus orocryptum_ (Mountain Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus greeni_ (Northern Snow Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus microlepidotus_ (Southern Snow Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus ocellatus_ (Spotted Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus palfreymani_ (Pedra Branca Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus pretiosus_ (Tasmanian Tree Skink) (endemic)
_Niveoscincus metallicus_ (Metallic Skink)
_Pseudemoia entrecasteauxii_ (Southern Grass Skink )
_Pseudemoia pagenstecheri_ (Tussock Skink)
_Pseudemoia rawlinsoni_ (Glossy Grass Skink)
_Tiliqua nigrolutea_ (Blotched Blue-tongued Lizard)
_Eulamprus tympanum_ (Southern Water Skink)
[h=2]Serpentes (Snakes)[/h]Elapidae (Elapids)

_Austrelaps superbus_ (Lowland Copperhead)
_Drysdalia coronoides_ (White-lipped Snake)
_Notechis scutatus_ (Tasmanian Tiger Snake)


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## Megzz (Sep 8, 2011)

Yeah Tasmania's list is sad indeed :lol:


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 8, 2011)

"My response as a DEC certified wildlife carer….

Currently as the species are being caught wild and placed into to domestic situations, I’m not able to support the letter.

When the government adopts a system where a limited gene pool is established and documented captive breeding is the norm, I may change my views and be supporting.

The drama is that wild caught snakes are taken from natural habitat – which is against conservation principle and encourages poachers taking our protected species.
Australia’s reptiles are so in demand overseas that the live trade of native reptiles is second only to drugs in illegal trade in Australia. One reptile can fetch up to $80 000. 

The BIG issue that a poacher can take an threatened species and get $80 000 for it..

If he gets caught the biggest fine that WA gives is maximum $10 000 and NO jail time…

I think the pressure should be on the government to review it’s penalty system and bring that in line with other states where the fines are up to $280 000 and 2 years jail time.

If you are interested have a look at the proposed snake keeping rules that are being introduced in NT – they include DNA testing of all reptiles to minimise poachers taking form the wild and to build up stock of captive breed snakes – which are happier and protects our precious wildlife.

I hope this explains why DEC aren’t making any moves to increase the species that are allowed to be kept in captivity, as it increases the illegal trade.

DEC are supporter of well set up breeding programs and WA isn’t up to standard yet."



This is the same old crap regurgitated with disturbing regularity by those who are brainwashed by departmental propaganda. The myth that vast numbers of common species are being sent illegally overseas and sold for huge profits is just bull poo. Many Oz species have been breeding OS for decades, and most are bred in sufficient numbers to satisfy the OS demand without the need to send more.Even in 1995 carpet pythons were selling in the US for as little as $200 each - US captive-bred stock. I concede that there a few target species still commanding a high price, but the $80,000 figure you mention is fanciful, except for maybe something like an Oenpelli. The demand will still exist for those regardless of whether there are more allowed species or not.

Jamie


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

Saddest response ever...I got:

Just think green...
Hug a tree
Save a whale
Spread the word

...I nearly cried


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> *Australia’s reptiles are so in demand overseas that the live trade of native reptiles is second only to drugs in illegal trade in Australia*. One reptile can fetch up to *$80 000.*
> 
> The* BIG* issue that a poacher can take an threatened species and get $80 000 for it..



Can you ask you work colleague which species can be sold for $80.000.- ????? I would really like to know.
What else has Australia got apart from drugs and reptiles that's worth illegal exporting? What's the third item on the list - bottled farts?


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 8, 2011)

Sinners121 said:


> im going to send one everyday if everyone did that i think in a few months they would crack



That is guaranteed to have a negative effect on any argumenmt put up by those who want change. If you have said it once, you probably need to wait and see what effect it has before trying again. Making a daily nuisance of yourself will not enhance your credibility - if someone did that to me I'd just ignore them as having nothing better to do with their time. If you can't argue the case objectively, don't get involved.

Jamie


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## S&M Morelia (Sep 8, 2011)

The reason for the letter is to persuade the authorities to take another look at the Keeper's Species List, not the allowing of imported pythons.

I have sent a letter off to help out, as I think if there are a number of species that are native to WA but aren't on licence and are commonly kept in other states, then why the hell can't the keepers in WA keep them either.

The WA system has alot of room for improvement, but at least progress was made to allow the keeping of reptiles.

Cheers.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

All good, my other workmates are much more open to change


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## Erebos (Sep 8, 2011)

80,000 k far out what type of animal could fetch that much I swear government department that regulate this body must be stoned outa there brain. 


Cheers Brenton


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

The irony of the conservation argument against keeping reptiles is that amateur herpetologists have been the greatest contributor to the knowledge of reptiles in WA and in NSW the knowledge of reptiles has exploded since the keeping was legalized (I'm only speaking for states I've lived in and have knowledge of reptile keeping). Keeping has a huge contribution to the knowledge of reptiles as it increases exposure to their lifecycles and builds positive awareness, it’s not without its short comings but it does have more positives than negatives especially when you look at the numbers kept.


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## Trouble (Sep 8, 2011)

sent for you guys in WA. 

good luck


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## outbackstorm (Sep 8, 2011)

letter sent


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2011)

I am going to compile a letter later today. Apart from the obvious, I am also going to strongly point out the person who has been personally blocking any progress in the right direction because of his personal agenda. This individual is not liked by many of his colleagues within the Department and is totally unfit to hold a position where he is capable of embarrassing the Department. I feel that it's a good strategy to clearly point out this source of many problems, if nothing else, it may cause bit of a rift within the circles if it filters though the ranks. The Ministers should know who this inept person is and act on it.


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> I am going to compile a letter later today. Apart from the obvious, I am also going to strongly point out the person who has been personally blocking any progress in the right direction because of his personal agenda. This individual is not liked by many of his colleagues within the Department and is totally unfit to hold a position where he is capable of embarrassing the Department. I feel that it's a good strategy to clearly point out this source of many problems, if nothing else, it may cause bit of a rift within the circles if it filters though the ranks. The Ministers should know who this inept person is and act on it.



WR I don't think it's a fact lost on the Minister or his counterpart in opposition, but I'm not sure that will help. I found Gordon Wyre and David Mell to be positive in the meetings WAHS has had with them and regardless of the third party you infer to, there has been little desire to expand the list. At no stage during the meetings was conservation bought up as an issue for not expanding the list and in our last meeting non compliance was not even mentioned as a preclusion to the list being expanded. Taking Gordon on his word it came down to resources - ie money, if that is the case its important to let the minister know that expanding the list is a priority. Not with standing Jamie's argument on sending letters each day, it is important that we get many people to regularly email issues with the system and expanded list.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2011)

Stencorp, I see your point but from an outsider's point of view, if these guys are so sweet, then why is nothing happening. They may mean well but if there is no desirable outcome then their "positive attitude" is not worth a pinch of .... How can an expansion of species on the "keep list" cost money? Do they have to do anything more than type more names on the list? The list is not a Legislation, as I understand it, so what's the big deal. 
My personal approach would be not to just ask for expanded list but to get WA DEC fall in line with other states where we can keep pretty well everything that's listed as "already in captivity". That, to me should be the major objective.


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## Sinners121 (Sep 8, 2011)

i can see how it would cost more money due to people in W.A having to send a care sheet annualy on each species we own. though this could be very simply solved with online updates or other methods.


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for putting the time into your letter WR. I agree the objective needs to be to fall inline with the other states. WAHS is aiming for the WA natives that are kept in captivity across Australia as one of it's first goals. 
Whilst things have been reported as positive in the meetings. They certainly are not short of stalling tactics. They asked for an initial 6 species to assess for suitability. But you have to wonder what is there to assess when the rest of Australia is keeping the animals we asked for in captivity already? Another ploy to indicate that it costs money to add animals to the list.


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Stencorp, I see your point but from an outsider's point of view, if these guys are so sweet, then why is nothing happening. They may mean well but if there is no desirable outcome then their "positive attitude" is not worth a pinch of .... How can an expansion of species on the "keep list" cost money? Do they have to do anything more than type more names on the list? The list is not a Legislation, as I understand it, so what's the big deal.
> My personal approach would be not to just ask for expanded list but to get WA DEC fall in line with other states where we can keep pretty well everything that's listed as "already in captivity". That, to me should be the major objective.





Yes I'm as
astounded as you are WR - but living over in QLD - you have more rights in WA than we do! Our local reptile displays can't display Crocodiles at their shows but if you are a mobile display travelling from interstate to WA to Perth you are able to get a permit. True story!! The Minister wrote to back to a complaint saying DEC didn't think crocodiles were appropriate for mobile displays and so won't allow them to go on reg 16 display licenses, yet at the time DEC permitted an interstate display to display crocs a the Perth Show.


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## stimmygirl (Sep 8, 2011)

*awesome cause*

Letter sent


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## Squamata (Sep 8, 2011)

*Letter sent!!*

Right there with you snowman, it is so frustrating that our species (particularly pythons) are allowed to be kept in the East but not here. I am constantly requesting a pygmy python for my 
educational shows but am blocked all the time, with stupid irrational arguments that they don't come from Perth, well neither do Womas or Blackheadeds but we are allowed to keep them!!! grrrrrr!!!
Same as our Roughies and many of our beautiful lizards. 
What will it take for them to realise that we are seriously losing the battle against the Cane toad and let us keep some of the species affected and will be affected, so our future children may at least know what a Mertens
water Monitor is etc etc.
Sorry rattling off on another tangent, but we need to do something about our list and if writing letters to the ministers help, then so be it.
I will be glad to send one everyday.
Keep up the good work Snowman.
Karen


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## AusReptiles88 (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter Sent


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words Karen. But I'm merely sitting on the edge of the work that is being undertaken mainly by Stephen and Mike on behalf of WAHS. 
It's best to send a reply for reply in regards to letters to the minister. 
Don't give up on your pygmy python either. Perhaps even request a meeting with the minister to raise your concerns with the departments treatment of your application. Find out who has pygmys in WA and then ask why you are being disecriminated against. It may be worth all reg 16's getting together to address the issue. I know Ranger Red is pretty active in this area. The more angles that we attack this from the better chance we have of getting a result.


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## Waterrat (Sep 8, 2011)

Also, involve your Member of Parliament. Politicians can have a huge influence and from I hear, your PM is very receptive to your/our concerns. The more pressure from all angles, the better, just don't let it die off.


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh oh oh I got the jitters, I got an _actual_ 'read receipt' from my letter as my email asks for one when you click my emails


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## zulu (Sep 8, 2011)

Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.
You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected.
What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.
Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers


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## Firedrake (Sep 8, 2011)

And that's because the DEC won't allow more than one clutch to be bred and sold for a normal license holder, the extra ones must be 'given' away to a dealer. Also as the eastern states have their own breeders who are allowed to sell as many as they like, there is almost no call for export unless its something nobody has.

The DEC are encouraging wild taking because they make a royalty on it, as Snowman said earlier, the WAHS asked for the reduction of W/C and more C/B but the DEC declined and basically said they would rather keep taking from the wild...


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## zulu (Sep 8, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> And that's because the DEC won't allow more than one clutch to be bred and sold for a normal license holder, the extra ones must be 'given' away to a dealer. Also as the eastern states have their own breeders who are allowed to sell as many as they like, there is almost no call for export unless its something nobody has.



You poor buggers LOL Your asking your old uncle zulu to give an axe to a crazed murderer.
I dont know what you guys can do really beside immigrate to the east


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## stencorp69 (Sep 8, 2011)

zulu said:


> Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.



Not sure the argument make much sense? There are very few animals being collected of the licensed species currently.



> You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected. What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.



I'm not oppossed to that opinion, but others have said it is self regulating anyway given the current numbers being collected. As for devalue I'm not sure that is correct as it costs us in WA more for locally sourced stimis than it does you in the eastern states.



> Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers



How so? The numbers of animals being taken are very small and while it may have some locallised impact there is no impact over all.



zulu said:


> ...I dont know what you guys can do really beside immigrate to the east


nail on the head if only it was that easy


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

zulu said:


> Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.
> You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected.
> What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.
> Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers



I'm not sure if you have had much experience over here Zulu, but we have found wild taking to be self limiting. The simple facts are that most people don't want a wild caught animal. You don't know how old it is, what parisites and diseases it's been exposed to, they often carry battle scares or scratches from living in the wild. I know of one breeder who has more luck with young male SWCP than older ones, so again even for breeding captive can be the more attractive option. Most people here are chasing hatchies (captive bred) that they raise themselves. If there was a nice looking WC woma or something I'd consider buying it, but usually it's not my first preference. Because of this the demand for wild taking drops off once captive populations have increased in number. You can get a hatchy wheatbelt stimi for $250 or a wild caught one for $700. What do you think most people do?
There aren't many takers licenses in WA. That said, it's sad that DEC don't promote captive breeding over wild taking. The restrictions placed on captive breeding really makes you wonder if they place any value in conservation at all.
Other than pythons everything else can be imported from captive populations. Which would mean little or no wild taking. There's a handful of other WA native pythons we would like to see added. Most of which occur in captive collections for exhibition purposes already.


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## zulu (Sep 8, 2011)

stencorp69 said:


> Not sure the argument make much sense? There are very few animals being collected of the licensed species currently.
> 
> Thats because supply and demand have been exhausted,taking should have been stopped by DECC years ago.
> 
> ...


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## winny111 (Sep 8, 2011)

email sent


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## zulu (Sep 8, 2011)

Snowman said:


> I'm not sure if you have had much experience over here Zulu, but we have found wild taking to be self limiting. The simple facts are that most people don't want a wild caught animal. You don't know how old it is, what parisites and diseases it's been exposed to, they often carry battle scares or scratches from living in the wild. I know of one breeder who has more luck with young male SWCP than older ones, so again even for breeding captive can be the more attractive option. Most people here are chasing hatchies (captive bred) that they raise themselves. If there was a nice looking WC woma or something I'd consider buying it, but usually it's not my first preference. Because of this the demand for wild taking drops off once captive populations have increased in number. You can get a hatchy wheatbelt stimi for $250 or a wild caught one for $700. What do you think most people do?
> There aren't many takers licenses in WA. That said, it's sad that DEC don't promote captive breeding over wild taking. The restrictions placed on captive breeding really makes you wonder if they place any value in conservation at all.
> Other than pythons everything else can be imported from captive populations. Which would mean little or no wild taking. There's a handful of other WA native pythons we would like to see added. Most of which occur in captive collections for exhibition purposes already.



Yeh Snowman,captive bred is definetly the way to go,worth paying more for IMO
You should join DECC,they need people with sense. Cheers


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## Snowman (Sep 8, 2011)

BTW: Just one C on our DEC.. Though I can think of a use for the last C


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## Spider178 (Sep 8, 2011)

Message sent.


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## Pineapplekitten (Sep 8, 2011)

Done and dusted


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## Miss_Kaos (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter Sent! Best of luck.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Sep 8, 2011)

Letter sent


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## Fiamma (Sep 8, 2011)

Sent


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## Jeannine (Sep 8, 2011)

*done*


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## RickLeekong (Sep 8, 2011)

stencorp69 said:


> What unique ecosystems are you talking about - the lounge room? shed? games room? They are generally not all that unique, although my mate Craig has a pretty unique games room, but I don't think there's much species worth protecting in it.
> 
> Seeing that your from Victoria I imagine your statement to be a bit "do as I say not as i do" - just out of curiosity how many letters have you sent off to the Victorian Minister for the Environment requesting restrictions on reptile species in Victoria - especially given that there are many non endemic Victorian species in the system?
> 
> When you have pretty much zero restrictions on keeping reptiles - especially endemic species - its easy to point the finger at others and call them greedy isn't it!


well put


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## BeardieLover (Sep 9, 2011)

Letter Sent  I hope this works


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## RickLeekong (Sep 9, 2011)

What do people from WA want to have available to them the most, personally i would love bearded dragons, bredil, jungle and diamond pythons the most, id be grateful just for bearded dragons


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## Waterrat (Sep 9, 2011)

Letter sent.
The general tone of my messages was that the DEC (at the moment) is an embarrassment to WA and their laws and policies need to be aligned with those in other states. If WA wants to sustain their claim as the most progressive state then the DEC's attitude towards reptile keepers must step out of Jurassic and recognise our role and contributions in conservation of wild populations, be it through captive breeding or public education. Individual DEC Officers (named) who perceive us a criminals and make public statement to that effect, should be made redundant from any PR position in public service.
I think reptile keepers in WA have been insulted enough - it's time for change.


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## Snowman (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks WR, that's awesome! Can you PM me a copy of your letter?


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## -Katana- (Sep 9, 2011)

Snowman said:


> *What’s in it for the other States?*
> When reptile keeping became legal in WA nearly 10 years ago a large number of animals were able to be exported to the other states of Australia.
> 
> Animals such as:
> ...



SENT!

I would also like the e-mail addy of this chaps opposition, assuming, of course, there is one.
Arming his opposition with this information might help arm him/her to make question time very uncomfortable for said minister esp. if some very pointed questions about this list are asked.
It might bring more leverage to bear on this issue.


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## Snowman (Sep 9, 2011)

That's a good idea Akwendi!

The email address for the opposition is.

*Hon. Dr Sally Elizabeth Talbot MLC
*Shadow Minister for Environment; Climate Change;
[email protected] 
Shop 21 Meadow Springs Shopping Centre
25 Meadow Springs Drive
MANDURAH WA 6210


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## Waterrat (Sep 9, 2011)

Can you also provide details on your MP?


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## -Katana- (Sep 9, 2011)

Snowman said:


> That's a good idea Akwendi!
> 
> The email address for the opposition is.
> 
> ...



No problems Snowman!
If this lady is anything like other politicians she'll relish the chance to rip shreds off him and hold his incompetence up for scorn and general derision.
There have been some legendary policy back ***** when that sort of pressure has been applied.


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## Waterrat (Sep 9, 2011)

Elizabeth has been sent my love letter.


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## AndrewHenderson (Sep 9, 2011)

I'd love to read that letter, it sounds like you've stuck a good size 12 boot in their ribs. Good stuff haha.


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## -Katana- (Sep 9, 2011)

Snowman said:


> That's a good idea Akwendi!
> 
> The email address for the opposition is.
> 
> ...



E-mail sent.
Give him hell, Sally!


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## prettypython (Sep 9, 2011)

RickLeekong said:


> What do people from WA want to have available to them the most, personally i would love bearded dragons, bredil, jungle and diamond pythons the most, id be grateful just for bearded dragons


Bredil,jungle and diamonds are compleatly out of the question, its a compleat waste of time asking for reptiles that will NEVER be included. What WA keepers want is the chance to keep reptiles that are native to WA that other states keep.


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## RickLeekong (Sep 9, 2011)

prettypython said:


> Bredil,jungle and diamonds are compleatly out of the question, its a compleat waste of time asking for reptiles that will NEVER be included. What WA keepers want is the chance to keep reptiles that are native to WA that other states keep.


Welllllll..........bredil isnt native to either state....its from the middle, why are they allowed to have it and not us.


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## Firedrake (Sep 9, 2011)

I want at least pygmy pythons and RSP allowed and maybe drop everything on your basic lists to our basic, and maybe have a rule like SA and have say beardies, blueys and other very basic critters off license or on a free one for the first say one or two animals.

Oh and CENTRAL netteds seeing as they live here -_-


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## Snowman (Sep 9, 2011)

Some people in WA already have jungles on reg 16 license apparently.


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## Waterrat (Sep 9, 2011)

prettypython said:


> What WA keepers want is the chance to keep reptiles that are native to WA that other states keep.



Don't settle for less - this is a rare opportunity to hit them hard. You might as well go for broke. You can always pick up the crumbs if you don't succeed.


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## RickLeekong (Sep 9, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Don't settle for less - this is a rare opportunity to hit them hard. You might as well go for broke. You can always pick up the crumbs if you don't succeed.


thats basically my mentality on this situation, get what you can because it will be a long time befoe we get another look into, hit them hard i say.


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## andysnakes (Sep 9, 2011)

done


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## Sinners121 (Sep 9, 2011)

RickLeekong said:


> What do people from WA want to have available to them the most, personally i would love bearded dragons, bredil, jungle and diamond pythons the most, id be grateful just for bearded dragons


some more monitors, well heaps more monitors would love the mertens and perentie also thorny devil ( i know hard to keep but i would put the effort in  )


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## RickLeekong (Sep 9, 2011)

Sinners121 said:


> some more monitors, well heaps more monitors would love the mertens and perentie also thorny devil ( i know hard to keep but i would put the effort in  )


OMG yes thorny devils would be great fun to have  i like it.


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## varanus (Sep 9, 2011)

Sent


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 10, 2011)

All the support from other states is very much appreciated.
Just wanted to quickly mention that Thorny Devils on the list is a horrible idea. They may look awesome but the time and effort for people to put in to keep them alive and happy is massive, and i think that too many would die. People might think they have the time to feed them 1000+ ants everyday, but when you think about your other pets, work, social life, sleep, holidays, school work (tafe & uni included), etc, you would quickly realise it was a bad idea. Just enjoy these little guys in the wild (or zoo), and take lots of photos. Lets stick to herps that are a bit more realistic to keep in captivity.

MON


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2011)

Don't worry Mon. No one would ever ask to have them added to the list. They definitely weren't on the submission to DEC


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## RickLeekong (Sep 10, 2011)

MiddleOfNowhere said:


> All the support from other states is very much appreciated.
> Just wanted to quickly mention that Thorny Devils on the list is a horrible idea. They may look awesome but the time and effort for people to put in to keep them alive and happy is massive, and i think that too many would die. People might think they have the time to feed them 1000+ ants everyday, but when you think about your other pets, work, social life, sleep, holidays, school work (tafe & uni included), etc, you would quickly realise it was a bad idea. Just enjoy these little guys in the wild (or zoo), and take lots of photos. Lets stick to herps that are a bit more realistic to keep in captivity.
> 
> MON


yes your probably right


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## Sinners121 (Sep 10, 2011)

MiddleOfNowhere said:


> All the support from other states is very much appreciated.
> Just wanted to quickly mention that Thorny Devils on the list is a horrible idea. They may look awesome but the time and effort for people to put in to keep them alive and happy is massive, and i think that too many would die. People might think they have the time to feed them 1000+ ants everyday, but when you think about your other pets, work, social life, sleep, holidays, school work (tafe & uni included), etc, you would quickly realise it was a bad idea. Just enjoy these little guys in the wild (or zoo), and take lots of photos. Lets stick to herps that are a bit more realistic to keep in captivity.
> 
> MON



yea in realise though i have heard of people starting colonies of ants than running trails through the encolsure (outside) and therefore supplying the needed amount of ants. apart from that apparently they are easy to keep mainly just need large space (due to the few colonies of ants needed and outside enclosure for the thorny devils)


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## elogov (Sep 10, 2011)

I Honestly hope your joking?, your contemplating keeping thorny devils which are restricted from all states on a regular licence for a reason. over something you "heard"? Keep on topic & be realistic, i support what this letter represents so please don't make me regret it. ( email sent from 4+ different family members.)



Sinners121 said:


> yea in realise though i have "HEARD" of people starting colonies of ants than running trails through the encolsure (outside) and therefore supplying the needed amount of ants. apart from that "APPARENTLY they are easy to keep" mainly just need large space (due to the few colonies of ants needed and outside enclosure for the thorny devils)


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 10, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Don't worry Mon. No one would ever ask to have them added to the list. They definitely weren't on the submission to DEC



Hey Snowman, I know that you guys wouldn't jeoprodise our biggest chance at change in the system by requesting Thorny Devils. They were, and are still very high on my list to find in the Goldfields, I was lucky enough to have a good mate of mine find one and give me the chance to photograph it, hence my avatar. I am just hanging out to find one myself in the wild. 

I am getting a couple of workmates to send through the emails as well.

MON


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## RickLeekong (Sep 10, 2011)

Snowman said:


> *WA current keepers list.
> *
> Category 1
> No species.
> ...


geeeee just a few extra on the list


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## MathewB (Sep 11, 2011)

RickLeekong said:


> geeeee just a few extra on the list



Yeah theres only about four or five more


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 11, 2011)

I really do understand that a 225 species list is massive compared to a 41 species list. I'm in WA

That is why i appreciate our Eastern brethren helping us out. Us in WA should also be very thankful to WAHS for getting the keeping system in the first place, 10 years ago, and now pushing for what they are now. I am really hoping that we can expand our list, and get rid of some of these restrictions that have been placed on us, and actually allow the hobby to thrive. Again any, and all help will be appreciated by us in WA. With any luck and persistance we can get a better system in place, and a better keeping list.

MON


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## stencorp69 (Sep 11, 2011)

Just to clarify it was WASAH not WAHS that got the original system up and running. WAHS was setup after WASAH was disbanded


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## Rach85 (Sep 11, 2011)

starting to get a bit of momentum going.. well done.. bumpity bump


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## Joshua-Tree (Sep 12, 2011)

letter sent 
ive had 2 nephurus levis for about 6 months now and i really wanted amyae's but couldnt get them =\ then i found out other states can have them and couldnt believe it! thanks for getting this going i didnt know what to do


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## prettypython (Sep 14, 2011)

What kind of responces have peoples got from their emails?


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## stencorp69 (Sep 14, 2011)

they will all be automatic responses at this stage


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## RickLeekong (Sep 14, 2011)

i have received a ''this has been received and will be dealt with appropriately''


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## MathewB (Sep 14, 2011)

Does it matter if I'm from QLD?


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## AndrewHenderson (Sep 14, 2011)

Has anyone recieved a legit reply on this yet? No It doesn't matter you a from QLD mate, just whack it in.


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## Waterrat (Sep 14, 2011)

Not yet. It takes a long time for a pigeon to fly from Perth to Cairns.


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## AndrewHenderson (Sep 14, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Not yet. It takes a long time for a pigeon to fly from Perth to Cairns.



What's this pidgeon contraption you talk of? We just throw bottles with notes in them in the ocean. We had an advancement last week, started to put lids on the bottles. they seem to float better for some reason.


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 14, 2011)

Hey AH,

I have sent a couple of emails, ranging from about a month, to a couple days ago. Still no response.
In the Goldfields we had to upgrade to the bird system. Our bottle didn't move far when we put them in the sand, and when we upgraded to water they just floated around in the dams. I doubt any actually got to Perth.

MON


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## MathewB (Sep 14, 2011)

Ok so I put the message in the bottle and chucked in into the canal, tis on it's way!


EDIT: Oh wait never mind the bottle, with the letter in it, just smashed against the rocks.......sorry about that, but I am not defeated!


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## Firedrake (Sep 15, 2011)

Another one sent


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## Foxthor (Sep 16, 2011)

Sent


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## AndrewHenderson (Sep 16, 2011)

MiddleOfNowhere said:


> Hey AH,
> 
> I have sent a couple of emails, ranging from about a month, to a couple days ago. Still no response.
> In the Goldfields we had to upgrade to the bird system. Our bottle didn't move far when we put them in the sand, and when we upgraded to water they just floated around in the dams. I doubt any actually got to Perth.
> ...



Shame that big water pipe doesn't go back the other way hahaha


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## Joshua-Tree (Sep 17, 2011)

any news on this ? i really wanna get some asper's and amyae's =P


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## RickLeekong (Sep 17, 2011)

i doubt people of WA are gonna let this be forgotten, it needs to happen.


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## Megzz (Sep 17, 2011)

Its been a long ongoing effort I wouldn't expect changes overnight


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## Darlyn (Sep 17, 2011)

Done, good luck


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## Joshua-Tree (Sep 17, 2011)

Megzz said:


> Its been a long ongoing effort I wouldn't expect changes overnight



i didnt realise the thread was started only 10 days ago lol
guess i can give it a bit more time


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## narre (Sep 18, 2011)

*Letter sent*

Letter sent

I am considering moving to another state - I was fond of WA until I learnt about the restrictive reptile laws there!

Good luck with your campaign - keep up the pressure!


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## Jeannine (Sep 19, 2011)

*anyone heard back re their letters yet?*


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## melsilver (Sep 21, 2011)

Letter sent


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 21, 2011)

Patience with these guys means literally waiting months or most likely years for action. ASSISTING reptile keepers in WA is not a priority for DEC, exerting strongarm CONTROL over them is. They think they have done you a huge favour by allowing you have what you have already, and if we're speaking pre-2003, they have!

Gordon Wyre and Peter Mawson promised a review would take place between 12-24 months following the introduction of legalised keeping in 2003, and a consultative committee was set up to work with (then) CALM to iron out the (massive) wrinkles in the system they set up. The review was never undertaken, and the consultative committee was allowed to collapse because CALM would not agree to meet with us after about the first year. That was eight years ago.

Be assured that whatever happens in WA, it will be tailored to suit DEC, not the keepers in that state. Unless there's a complete change of staff at DEC in the next few years, your species list will not be greatly expanded, and I'd be very surprised if you are allowed to keep anything but WA endemic species.

Jamie


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## Waterrat (Sep 21, 2011)

Jamie, we are not expecting any reply from the DEC, the letters went to the Minister and the shadow Minister. If they don't see it fit to reply and act, then God help WA and the reptile keepers there.


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## myusername (Sep 21, 2011)

Sent.


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## Snowman (Sep 21, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Jamie, we are not expecting any reply from the DEC, the letters went to the Minister and the shadow Minister. If they don't see it fit to reply and act, then God help WA and the reptile keepers there.



Dear God, 
Please cause a natural disaster that removes the relevant DEC staff from this earth. 
Cheers 
your favourite Snowman.

I'm expecting a reply from God first


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## Firedrake (Sep 21, 2011)

Sent again


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Sep 24, 2011)

It is rather dissapointing. I didn't expect anything to happen quickly. As i put in the letter "I am not expecting miracles, i am simply expecting fair, and timely approach from members of DEC."

Maybe that is a bit of an oxymoron???

MON


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## Firedrake (Sep 30, 2011)

Bumpity bump bump sent for a third time


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## Joshua-Tree (Sep 30, 2011)

haha its like in the movie Shawshank Redemption... if we hound hard and stay at it they will eventually break


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## DeadCricket (Oct 5, 2011)

Letter sent. People from other states may want to also show support by making the following small changes.

Dear Minister

I am writing to express my concern about the reptile keeping system in Western Australia. The allowed reptile species list is very restrictive, especially when compared to those of the other states. DEC has still not reviewed the species list despite promising to do so within 12-24 months of its introduction in 2003.

Currently there are many species endemic to WA which can be kept legally in all other states, but keepers are unfairly prevented from keeping them legally in their own state. I seek an independent review of the system imposed on reptile keepers in WA, as DEC continues to stall meaningful discussion about this matter. It is time that WA raises to an equal par with the rest of the country.

I urge you to raise this issue with your colleagues and in the Parliament as a matter of public interest. All reptile keepers in Western Australia and in fact Australia wide, are grateful for any assistance you can offer.


Yours sincerely


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## mattyg (Oct 5, 2011)

done


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## MathewB (Oct 5, 2011)

Sent again.


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## Joshua-Tree (Oct 9, 2011)

sent again


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## malcolmh (Oct 9, 2011)

recently got a stimmy and beardy loving reptiles as a pet would love a greater variaty here in w.a. 
letter sent


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## RickLeekong (Oct 9, 2011)

Sent again and again and again


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## Rach85 (Oct 12, 2011)

And again  bump


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## rum.pig (Oct 12, 2011)

Done. I hope this works for you.


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## Waterrat (Oct 12, 2011)

I sent email to the Minister and the shadow Minister on the 9/9 and haven't received any response whatsoever.
Today, I am going to send a letter to both of them by registered mail and I urge everybody to do the same. Emails can disappear or be "lost" in the traffic but letters that have been signed off by the receiver can't.
I will also point out my disappointment that the respective Ministers didn't have the decency to at least acknowledge my correspondence. Ignorance in ministerial levels is an offence as far as I am concerned.

Has anyone received any replies?


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## Megzz (Oct 12, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Has anyone received any replies?


I haven't

*edit* Was just on our WA forum, someone has recieved a response so I'm sure it'll be posted here shortly too.


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## xJACKx (Oct 12, 2011)

letter sent, best of luck


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## Sinners121 (Oct 17, 2011)

sent again. still only gotten automated reply


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## Snowman (Oct 18, 2011)

The bellow is from MON

"Just to let every know that i have been calling the Bill Marmion, and John Bowler, (well their assistants at least) and am still trying to get something done. Bill Marmion's assistant stated that they are about 1 week to a few days away from delivering a response. With any luck lets hope that its favourable.

If anyone wants their local ministers number just google it.
Bill Marmion's is 9220 5000
and John Bowlers's is 9021 6766 his assistant is Georgina. This is for Goldfields people.

email's is 1 thing, phone calls is another. Start the calls and maybe we can get further, even if it is just to stop the annoyance.

MON "


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## Joshua-Tree (Oct 18, 2011)

i hope something happens im dieing for an amyae =P ive sent 2 emails which is prob enough. hopefully we get a good response in the next week or so =)


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## Sinners121 (Oct 18, 2011)

Joshua-Tree said:


> ive sent 2 emails which is prob enough


try calling


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## Snowman (Oct 18, 2011)

The response will most likely just state that they are aware of the need for a review and that they will work with WAHS to do so. Just my opinion. It will take a lot of pressure and time to see change.

I will say that because of all of the letters and support from everyone who sent emails and letters, the WAHS has received a response from the Minister (in regards to their submission) in record time. It has put some weight behind our cause and *we all (West Australian reptile keepers) are very greatful to those that have sent letters.* When you all finally receive a response from the Minister I would encourage you to send your own reply to keep pressure on the department. 
*Thanks again to all who have sent letters and to those that are about to*. (If you haven't please do so!. The more they get from different people the bigger the push to do something.)
Kind regards
Trent, WA reptile keeper


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## -Katana- (Oct 18, 2011)

I got this e-mail response from Sally Talbot today...

[FONT=&amp]Dear Ms ************,[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]Thank you for your recent email regarding the reptile keeping system in Western Australia.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]I appreciate your interest in the issue and for bringing it to my attention. Please be assure I will be closely monitoring the Minister for Environment and his actions, or otherwise, on this issue.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]If you feel it is appropriate, I would be interested in receiving a copy of his response to your correspondence when you receive it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]In the meantime, if I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Regards, Sally[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] 


I've also sent her a link to this thread encouraging her to come to APS and actually address the issues that have been voice here.
Let's cross our fingers that she is able to get a good grasp on the situation and reason for the discontent.
[/FONT]


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## Firedrake (Oct 18, 2011)

This is the Minister's response to me:


Dear Ms *****
Thank you for your emails dated 8 September and 12 October 2011 regarding
the native reptile keeping system in Western Australia.
Native reptile keeping has been operating in Western Australia only since the

promulgation of the _Wildlife Conservation (Reptiles and Amphibians) Regulations_
2002. Western Australia is estimated to have over 500 native species of reptiles,
with about
40 per cent of these found nowhere else. Unfortunately there are threats to wild
reptile conservation related to operating a licensed reptile keeping system,
including the potential for transfer of diseases and parasites into wild populations
and the potential for increased demand for taking specimens from the wild.
The establishment and operation of the private reptile keeping licensing system
has been done in conjunction with advice from reptile enthusiasts, scientists and
wildlife conservation experts. The restrictions in place are necessary to balance
the needs of reptile enthusiasts and acceptable standards for reptile
conservation.
found their way from these institutions into the pet trade. Western Australia has
no role to play in the decisions of other jurisdictions. I understand that other
reptiles kept in the eastern states may have been obtained illegally in Western
Australia. Neither of these situations necessarily provides the grounds for an
expanded list of reptiles able to be kept in this State.
I understand that some endemic Western Australian reptiles are kept as pets in
the eastern states, however the Department of Environment and Conservation
(DEC) has not approved the export of any species of frogs and reptiles for pet
keeping purposes that are not listed as pet herpetofauna. I have been advised
that it appears that some reptiles approved for export for scientific research have
You may be interested to note that the vast majority of reptile keepers, about
77 per cent of licensees , hold only one species , with about 54 per cent holding only one
animal.
DEC has already relaxed the requirement in relation to returns from quarterly to annual
returns for keepers and is examining the possibility of a modest expansion to the reptile
keeping list and a relaxation of current breeding controls 
. These considerations are
being progressed over the coming year, if they can be achieved without significant
conservation risk. Consequently I see no need for a separate, additional review.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention.
Yours sincerely
HON BILL 

MARMION MLA
MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT; WATER


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## Trouble (Oct 18, 2011)

I just received this email reply...

Dear Ms ********

Thank you for your email dated 8 September 2011 regarding the native reptile keeping system in Western Australia.
Native reptile keeping has been operating in Western Australia since the promulgation of the Wildlife Conservation (Reptiles and Amphibians) Regulations 2002. 
Western Australia is estimated to have over 500 native species of reptiles, with about 40 per cent of these found nowhere else. Unfortunately there are threats to wild reptile conservation related to operating a licensed reptile keeping system, including the potential for transfer of diseases and parasites into wild populations and the potential for increased demand for taking specimens from the wild.
The establishment and operation of the private reptile keeping licensing system has been done in conjunction with advice from reptile enthusiasts, scientists and wildlife conservation experts. 
The restrictions in place are necessary to balance the needs of reptile enthusiasts and acceptable standards for reptile conservation.
I understand that some endemic Western Australian reptiles are kept as pets in the eastern states, however the Department of Environment and Conservation (DEC) has not approved the export of any species of frogs and reptiles for pet keeping purposes that are not listed as pet herpetofauna. 
I have been advised that it appears that some reptiles approved for export for scientific research have found their way from these institutions into the pet trade. Western Australia has no role to play in the decisions of other jurisdictions. 
I understand that other reptiles kept in the eastern states may have been obtained illegally in Western Australia. Neither of these situations necessarily provides the grounds for an expanded list of reptiles able to be kept in this State.

You may be interested to note that the vast majority of reptile keepers, about 77 per cent of licensees hold only one species, with about 54 per cent holding only one animal.
DEC has already relaxed the requirement in relation to returns from quarterly to annual returns for keepers and is examining the possibility of a modest expansion to the reptile keeping list and a relaxation of current breeding controls. 
These considerations are being progressed over the coming year, if they can be achieved without significant conservation risk. Consequently I see no need for a separate, additional review.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention.
Yours sincerely

HON BILL MARMION MLA
MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT; WATER
10OCT201


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## Firedrake (Oct 18, 2011)

Well looks like he copy-pasted his replies...

Just sent a letter to the shadow minister, as she seems a little more keen to help us out than the above. Suggest you guys do the same and send your responses, I'll post the details again

*Hon. Dr Sally Elizabeth Talbot MLC
*Shadow Minister for Environment; Climate Change;
[email protected] 
Shop 21 Meadow Springs Shopping Centre
25 Meadow Springs Drive
MANDURAH WA 6210


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## -Katana- (Oct 18, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> Well looks like he copy-pasted his replies...
> 
> Just sent a letter to the shadow minister, as she seems a little more keen to help us out than the above. Suggest you guys do the same and send your responses, I'll post the details again
> 
> ...




Yes, she certainly seems to be more concerned judging by her response to my e-mail.
I also sent her the Minister's 4 line computer generated non-response as she requested.

I got the feeling the lady is a tenacious tiger.


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## Snowman (Oct 18, 2011)

Reply to Bill Marmion as well. If he has not addressed your concerns and cc Sally in on the response. He can't send a standard response when you have your own specific letter.


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## Firedrake (Oct 18, 2011)

Maybe it's the female touch? Bill kind of seems a little cold and brainwashed about the whole situation, Sally seems to actually care about what is happening.


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## snakes123 (Oct 18, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> We need to do this in Tasmania ....



You organise the letter and ill help you.


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## Firedrake (Oct 18, 2011)

I still can't believe he's saying that some of WA's animals that were exported and are being kept over east were obtained illegally! It's almost like he's making excuses for the DEC....

And if you think about it, people only holding one species is because there's bugger all to choose from....They (DEC) catered to the minimum of one preferable species for a keeper, therefore why would there be a huge variety in what people own??? If you really feel like paying for a license and getting something you really don't want for a year just to be able to pay more and get the one thing you do want, which then costs you an arm and a leg because there aren't enough nice tame C/Bs out there, sure, I guess there could be more people who own more than one critter out there. I mean really, how can people own more than the four 'cheaper' python species? There is ONLY FOUR what do you honestly expect???? Barely anyone is going to pay $300 a year for a python that will pull an enormous power bill and cost half of what your car did to buy a nice one because there aren't any calm ones for sale!


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## Snowman (Oct 18, 2011)

*Bellow some ideas for responses:
*

Thank you for your email dated 8 September 2011 regarding the native reptilekeeping system in Western Australia.
Native reptile keeping has been operating in Western Australia since thepromulgation of the Wildlife Conservation (Reptiles and Amphibians) Regulations2002. 
Western Australia is estimated to have over 500 native species of reptiles,with about 40 per cent of these found nowhere else. Unfortunately there arethreats to wild reptile conservation related to operating a licensed reptilekeeping system, including the potential for transfer of diseases and parasitesinto wild populations and the potential for increased demand for takingspecimens from the wild.
*We don't need to take from the wild. Thereare sufficient captive populations in the eastern states to supply the pet trade in WA. He mentions the risk of "potential for increased demand fortaking specimens from the wild. Yet when WAHS asked to have certain animals taken off the wild collecting list, DEC refused and made sure wild taking was still allowed. It makes them money of course. The only animals we can not import are pythons... *

Theestablishment and operation of the private reptile keeping system has been donein conjunction with advice from reptile enthusiasts, scientists and wildlifeconservation experts. 
*Their so called expert was in court and could not identify 5 snakes. This was on a smuggling case and the expert was discredited. 
*
Therestrictions in place are necessary to balance the needs of reptile enthusiastsand acceptable standards for reptile conservation.
*What are the risks? We currently have Nephrurus Levis on the list. If they were to add the rest of the sub species of Nephrurus and they can be obtained from captive stock what risks are there? Surely no greater risk than the Nephrurus levis that is already on the list*.

I understandthat some endemic Western Australian reptiles are kept as pets in the easternstates, however the Department of Environment and Conservation (DEC) has notapproved the of any species of frogs and reptiles for pet keeping purposes thatare not listed as pet herpetofauna. 
I have beenadvised that it appears that some reptiles approved for export for scientificresearch have found their way from these institutions into the pet trade.Western Australia has no role to play in the decisions of other jurisdictions. 
I understand that other reptiles kept in the eastern states may have beenobtained illegally in Western Australia. Neither of these situationsnecessarily provides the grounds for an expanded list of reptiles able to bekept in this State.
*I have to disagree. It shows that theanimals make suitable captive pets. It also shows that there is no need forwild taking. The question is what are the grounds you Minister Marmion are refusing to give us the same rights as the rest of Australia. And keep the same animals, that come from this state?*

You may beinterested to note that the vast majority of reptile keepers, about 77 per centof licensees hold only one species, with about 54 per cent holding only oneanimal. 
*So really aren't you over exagerating the risks if most people wont keep many reptiles?* 
DEC has already relaxed the requirement in relation to returns from quarterlyto annual returns for keepers and is examining the possibility of a modestexpansion to the reptile keeping list and a relaxation of current breedingcontrols.
*I don't consider having to sell through adealer or limiting the number of clutches a keeper can sell in one year relaxation of control. Abolish the controls all together and promote captive breeding in the hoby over wild taking.

*Theseconsiderations are being progressed over the coming year, if they can beachieved without significant conservation risk. Consequently I see no need fora separate, additional review. 
*The need for a separate additional review stems from the biased treatment found in your department. When your head zoologist tells the Herp Society representitives that reptiles are the currency of criminals it is obvious we need an indipendant review of the system. Perhaps a Royal commission into all of DEC. We have the most expensive reptile licensing in Australia. And there is talk of it going up in price. When compared to the bird keeping system in WA it is clear that we are being unfairly treated.* 

Thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention. 
Yours sincerely

HON BILL MARMION MLA
MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT; WATER
10OCT201


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## MiddleOfNowhere (Oct 18, 2011)

Seems all go since that call though. Lol maybe it finally hit the button. How many others also called those numbers?
I also recieved the below for John Bowler.

"Hi Aaron

Sorry for not getting back to your earlier email though I can’t recall receiving it. 

You may have noted I’ve copied in Graham Jacobs as he is the local member for Coolgardie, when the boundary changed after the last election. Graham will no doubt respond and I will back him up if he needs any support in approaching a minister.

Regards

John Bowler

Member for Kalgoorlie"


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## Jen (Oct 18, 2011)

Does anyone have a list of the WA endemics that we cannot keep but the eastern states can? A poll showing who in WA would keep what if we were allowed might make a nice email. (Not a 'wish list' but what we would seriously go out and buy).


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## Snowman (Oct 18, 2011)

WA animals on the NSW keepers list. 

Antaresia childreni* - Children's Python 
Antaresia stimsoni Stimson's Python
Antaresia perthensis* - Pygmy Python 
Aspidites melanocephalus - Black-Headed Python 
Aspidites ramsayi* - Woma 
Boiga irregularis - Eastern Brown Tree Snake 
Boiga irregularis fusca* - Northern Brown Tree Snake
Chelodina oblonga - Oblong Snake-Necked Turtle
Christinus marmoratus -* Marbled Southern Gecko
Ctenophorus nuchalis - Central Netted Ground-Dragon
Ctenophorus pictus -* Painted Ground-Dragon
Ctenotus robustus* - Robust Ctenotus
Delma tincta* - Excitable Delma
Demansia psammophis -* Yellow-Faced Whipsnake
Dendrelaphis punctulatus - Green Tree Snake
Egernia inornata-* Unadorned Desert-Skink
Egernia kingie -* King's Skink
Egernia stokesii* - Gidgee Spiny-Tailed Skink
Elseya dentata - Northern Snapping Turtle
Eremiascincus fasciolatus -* Narrow-Banded Sand-Swimmer
Eremiascincus richardsonii* - Broad-Banded Sand-Swimmer
Furina ornata Orange-Naped Snake
Gehyra australis -* Top-End Dtella
Gehyra variegata - Varied Dtella
Hemiaspis signata - Marsh Snake
Hemidactylus frenatus - House Gecko
Heteronotia binoei - Prickly Gecko
Heteronotia spelea - Cave Prickly Gecko
Lialis burtonis - Burton's Snake-Lizard
Liasis fuscus - Water Python
Liasis olivaceus - Olive Python
Lophognathus gilberti -* Gilbert's Lashtail 
Lophognathus longirostris* - Long-Snouted Lashtail 
Lophognathus temporalis* - Swamplands Lashtail 
Lucasium damaeum -* Beaded Gecko 
Morelia spilota imbricata* - Western Carpet Python
Morelia spilota variegate -* Top End Carpet Python
Nephrurus amyae* - Centralian Rough Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus asper* - Prickly Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus laevissimus* - Pale Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus levis -* Three-Lined Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus levis levis* - Smooth Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus levis occidentalis - 
Nephrurus levis pilbarensis - Smooth Knob-Tail Gecko
Nephrurus sheai - Kimberley Rough Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus stellatus Stellate - Knob-Tail Gecko 
Nephrurus wheeleri* - Banded Knob-tail Gecko
Oedura filicipoda -* Fringe-Toed Velvet Gecko
Oedura marmorata -* Marbled Velvet Gecko
Pogona henrylawsoni -* Black-Soil Bearded Dragon 
Pogona minima -* Western Bearded Dragon 
Pogona minor -* Western Bearded Dragon 
Pogona mitchelli -* North-West Bearded Dragon 
Pygopus lepidopodus -* Southern Scaly-Foot 
Pygopus nigriceps* - Western Scaly-Foot 
Pygopus schraderi* - Eastern Hooded Scaly-Foot 
Strophurus ciliaris -* Northern Spiny-Tailed Gecko 
Strophurus intermedius -* Southern Spiny-Tailed Gecko 
Tiliqua rugosa -* Shingleback Lizard 
Tiliqua scincoides* - Common Bluetongue
Underwoodisaurus milii* - Thick-tailed Gecko 
Varanus acanthurus Ocellate* - Ridge-Tailed Monitor 
Varanus gilleni* - Pygmy Mulga Monitor 
Varanus gouldii* - Sand Monitor 
Varanus tristis* - Black-tailed Monitor
Chelodina steindachneri* - Flat-Shelled Snake-Necked 
Chlamydosaurus kingii* - Frilled Lizard 
Ctenophorus cristatus* - Crested Bicycle-Dragon
Ctenophorus isolepis* - Military Sand-Dragon
Ctenotus pantherinus* - Leopard Ctenotus 
Ctenotus pantherinus ocellifer -* Leopard Ctenotus
Diplodactylus conspicillatus -* Fat-Tailed Diplodactylus 
Diplodactylus elderi -* Jewelled Gecko
Diplodactylus granariensis -* Wheat-Belt Stone Gecko 
Diplodactylus stenodactylus - Crowned Gecko 
Diporiphora bennettii - Robust Two-Line Dragon 
Egernia depressa -* Pygmy Spiny-Tailed Skink
Egernia pulchra* -South-Western Rock-Skink
Emydura australis - North-West Red-Faced Turtle
Gehyra montium - Centralian Dtella
Morelia carinata - Rough-Scaled Python
Pogona microlepidota - Kimberley Bearded Dragon 
Pseudothecadactylus lindneri* - Giant Cave Gecko 
Rhynchoedura ornate -* Beaked Gecko 
Tiliqua multifasciata* - Centralian Blue-Tongued Lizard 
Tiliqua occipitalis* - Western Blue-Tongued Lizard 
Tropidonophis mairii* - Keelback Snake 
Tympanocryptis lineata* - Lined Earless Dragon
Varanus brevicauda* - Short-Tailed Pygmy Monitor 
Varanus caudolineatus* - Line-Tailed Pygmy Monitor 
Varanus giganteus -* Perentie 
Varanus glauerti* - Kimberley Rock Monitor
Varanus kingorum -* Pygmy Rock Monitor 
Varanus mertensi -* Mertens's Water Monitor 
Varanus mitchelli* - Mitchell's Water Monitor 
Varanus panoptes* - Yellow-Spotted Monitor 
Varanus rosenbergi -* Rosenberg's Goanna 
Varanus scalaris -* Spotted Tree Monitor
Parasuta spectabilis -* Spectacled Hooded Snake 
Vermicella annulata -* Eastern Bandy-bandy 
Acanthophis antarcticus -* Southern Death Adder 
Acanthophis praelongus -* Northern Death Adder 
Acanthophis Pyrrhus* - Desert Death Adder
Notechis scutatus -* Mainland Tiger Snake 
Pseudechis affinis* - Dugite 
Pseudechis australis* - Mulga Snake 
Pseudechis butleri* - Spotted Mulga Snake
Pseudonaja modesta - Ringed Brown Snake 
Suta suta - Curl Snake 
Oxyuranus scutellatus - Taipan 
Pseudonaja textilis - Eastern Brown Snake


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## RickLeekong (Oct 19, 2011)

Snowman said:


> WA animals on the NSW keepers list.
> 
> Antaresia childreni* - Children's Python
> Antaresia stimsoni Stimson's Python
> ...


goodness meeee, thats rediculous, how openly unfair.


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## DeadCricket (Oct 19, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Delma tincta* - Excitable Delma



This cracked me up.

On a more serious note,

Would someone please inform this man that Australia's wildlife works a little differently than he thinks it does? Species that aren't found in WA aren't found there for a reason and are unlikely to survive, let alone thrive if they escape from captivity. I just couldn't picture my jungle python slithering its way across the desert to get back home. Also, whilst he mentions that he has no control over other states, by the sound of your fees, he does have a duty to those people in his jurisdiction. I don't mean to rub it in but my recreational license (qld) was like $70, including the book, for 3-5yrs (?) Don't remember exactly. Surely something can be done to raise the standards. 

On a side note, has anyone thought of using APS as a group and actually utilising some of the incredibly knowledgable people who pop up from time to time as a body worthy of doing said independant review? These things don't happen quickly but possibly an APS independant review offered as a solution might do the trick. Just make sure you pick the right people haha. I've certainly seen many examples of people more knowledgable than an 'expert' who can't name 5 species

On a less serious note, there appears to be 17 subspecies of Delma's! Also 'Delma' aparently appears to be meaningless. 

I'm not sure why this amused me so much but it did

Maybe I should just get a Delma and be done with it


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## RickLeekong (Oct 22, 2011)

Well i got a letter from the local goverment/council which basically says thankyou for bringing this to my attention but there will be no need to review the current list of species permitted as pets and no need to possibly expand it. I doubt there's any chance of an expansion sadly, they went on to say that wild species are threatened as it is from feral animals ''cats, foxes etc'' but isn't that a more realistic reason to have them protected in a collection, we cant just let this go.

anyway, i want to know if you got a physical letter in the mail like i did this week too.


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## Bushfire (Oct 25, 2011)

Removed


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## RickLeekong (Oct 25, 2011)

Bushfire said:


> Removed


? what


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## DeadCricket (Oct 25, 2011)

No idea why this thread would get removed but I will mention that I didn't even get a reply email


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## Ramsayi (Oct 25, 2011)

In NSW we can keep any reptiles species from basically anywhere in the country PROVIDED it/they can be legally obtained.Basically they can and will add any species to the list if they can be sourced legitimately.


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## Sinners121 (Oct 25, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> In NSW we can keep any reptiles species from basically anywhere in the country PROVIDED it/they can be legally obtained.Basically they can and will add any species to the list if they can be sourced legitimately.


jealous


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## prettypython (Oct 28, 2011)

RickLeekong said:


> Well i got a letter from the local goverment/council which basically says thankyou for bringing this to my attention but there will be no need to review the current list of species permitted as pets and no need to possibly expand it. I doubt there's any chance of an expansion sadly, they went on to say that wild species are threatened as it is from feral animals ''cats, foxes etc'' but isn't that a more realistic reason to have them protected in a collection, we cant just let this go.
> 
> anyway, i want to know if you got a physical letter in the mail like i did this week too.



Hi Ricky. Don't give up buddy. Write your own email back saying that's unexeptable. CALM now DEC said they would review after 12 months or so back in 2003. We can't give up. Keep the emails going, reply back to each and everyone.


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## Joshua-Tree (Oct 28, 2011)

man this is ***ed... i feel like going for a drive to get me sum amyae


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## RickLeekong (Oct 29, 2011)

prettypython said:


> Hi Ricky. Don't give up buddy. Write your own email back saying that's unexeptable. CALM now DEC said they would review after 12 months or so back in 2003. We can't give up. Keep the emails going, reply back to each and everyone.


 yes i shall  but im not one to get in the way of science and conservation in the wild, but yes a reply will be heading their way soon, kind one ofcourse, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar


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## Sinners121 (Oct 30, 2011)

sent again


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## galeru (Oct 30, 2011)

gee no reptiles allowed to be kept in WA.


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## Waterrat (Oct 30, 2011)

I sent this email to the Minister today:

Dear Minister,

I sent you this email six weeks ago - no reply, not even an acknowledgement. That is very poor performance from the Minister's office. No wonder your WA DEC Department is being criticised by the rest of Australia. I am now turning my attention to the opposition - the shadow Minister, who was decent enough to reply promptly.

Yours truly


And this was their reply. The same as last time:

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]This is an automatic message acknowledging that your correspondence to the Hon Bill Marmion MLA, Minister for Environment; Water, has been received. 
Please be assured that your correspondence will be actioned as appropriate.
Thank you for taking the time to contact our office.
Please do not reply to this message.[/FONT]


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## Firedrake (Oct 30, 2011)

Still no reply from our Shadow Minister :/


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2011)

I got the same letter last week saying that they saw no need for a review
They claimed in the letter that 77% of licensed reptile keepers only keep one species with about 54% only keeping one animal.


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## Sinners121 (Nov 1, 2011)

Goldmember said:


> I got the same letter last week saying that they saw no need for a review
> They claimed in the letter that 77% of licensed reptile keepers only keep one species with about 54% only keeping one animal.


i got the same response for one of my letters and i said that was most likely due to people not seeing two species on the list they would like to keep and therefor only keeping one.


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## RickLeekong (Nov 2, 2011)

the fact is they were supposed to review it back in 2003, no excuse's, and believe me i would have more if i could, but, the list is very short and not saying the current species are bad, just a greater variety of WA animals would lovely, and they go on to say the species are threatened in the wild, well atleast in a collection they would be protected.

we need to keep at them, anything with the local governments takes time and patience, change never happens quickly.


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## AndrewHenderson (Nov 2, 2011)

I recieved a reply the other day from my MP.

Good Day Andrew,



Your inquiry to me was initially forwarded to our Shadow Minister for the Environment, Hon Dr Sally Talbot MLC, who is closely monitoring the Minister for Environment and his actions, or otherwise, on this issue. In addition I have now written a Question on Notice for the Minister, a copy of which is attached, and I will get back to you as soon as I have his response.



Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance.



Yours sincerely,



TOM STEPHENS JP MLA

Member for Pilbara



Further to this he has put forward a question on Notice for the minister at the next legislative assembly on November 2. In this he is asking
1) What reasons has your Department given for maintaining a minimal list of species allowed for keeping in comparison to other states of Australia?
2) What reason does your Department have for insisting that animal sales go through a registered dealer rather than allowing personal transactions that are recorded on an annual return as in other states of Australia?
3) What reasons does your Department give for the extremely high cost of keepers’ licences in comparison to other states of Australia?


It will be interesting to hear the reply.

Andrew


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## Snowman (Nov 2, 2011)

Sinners121 said:


> i got the same response for one of my letters and i said that was most likely due to people not seeing two species on the list they would like to keep and therefor only keeping one.



It's a restriction not placed on the people in WA who keep native birds. They too only often only keep one species.


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## Waterrat (Nov 2, 2011)

Excellent!


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## AndrewHenderson (Nov 2, 2011)

The shadow MP's and ministers are far better when it comes to this issue. They love this sort of ammo for proving they are doing a crap job etc.


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## SamNabz (Nov 2, 2011)

Some good progress there Andrew! Hopefully he can make something out of it


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2011)

Great news!!


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## RickLeekong (Nov 2, 2011)

AndrewHenderson said:


> I recieved a reply the other day from my MP.
> 
> Good Day Andrew,
> 
> ...


That will be interesting indeed 

we need to put together some comparison stuff like the native bird thing.


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## -Katana- (Nov 3, 2011)

I told you this Sally was our best bet. She had *Tina O'Connor | Research Officer* send me this e-mail and attached question-time transcript.

[FONT=&amp]Dear Ms ************,[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]Sally Talbot has asked me to advise you that yesterday she asked a question in Parliament regarding a review of the pet herpetofauna list. The question and response is attached for your information.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Kind regards, Tina[/FONT]


*[FONT=&amp]Tina O'Connor | Research Officer[/FONT]*

[FONT=&amp]Hon Dr Sally Talbot MLC Member for South West Region[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Shadow Minister for Environment; Climate Change; Indigenous Affairs; Lands; Youth[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] #######################################################################


Question-time transcript:

[/FONT]Extract from uncorrected Hansard 


[COUNCIL — Wednesday, 2 November 2011] 
p24d-25a 
Hon Dr Sally Talbot; Hon Helen Morton 


REPTILES — CONSERVATION 

959. 
Hon SALLY TALBOT to the minister representing the Minister for Environment: 
I refer to the Wildlife Conservation Act 1950 and the Wildlife Conservation (Reptiles and Amphibians) 
Regulation 2002. 

(1) 
When was the species list declared to be herpetofauna last reviewed? 
(2) 
Is the Department of Environment and Conservation planning another review of the species list? 
(3) 
If no to (2), why not? 
(4) 
If yes to (2), will reptile enthusiasts, the West Australian Herpetological Society, scientists and wildlife 
conservation experts be invited to participate in the review? 



Hon HELEN MORTON replied: 

I am just practising the word “herpetologists”! I thank the honourable member for some notice of the question. 

(1)–(4) 
On 18 November 2010, the Department of Environment and Conservation received a request in a letter 
from the West Australian Herpetological Society to review the reptile and amphibian keeping list. DEC 
has agreed to consider a proposition for the addition of up to six new species. There have been further 
discussions between DEC and the society since that date but DEC has not received any further 
submissions from the society on its highest priority species for consideration. 

[FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]


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## Firedrake (Nov 3, 2011)

Wow the DEC love to twist the truth hey, does Helen know when the review was actually promised?


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## chrisoo (Nov 3, 2011)

sent


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## Sinners121 (Nov 3, 2011)

Firedrake said:


> Wow the DEC love to twist the truth hey, does Helen know when the review was actually promised?



doubt it


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## Waterrat (Nov 3, 2011)

I received the same as Akwendi. Good!


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## Firedrake (Nov 3, 2011)

It's so infuriating that the DEC still refuses to give all the truth, or even just all the information. The fact that they leave the bits out that make them look bad and make it sound as though we're just ungrateful for this wonderful thing they're doing for us and we're asking so much of them because we have a long enough list and they're doing us a favour by letting us choose a whole six animals to add to it despite their worry that poachers will use this to their advantage...it really sickens me that these people still have a job 

PS I still haven't received anything from the Shadow minister 

Whoops I lie, got the same response as the above


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## Firedrake (Nov 8, 2011)

Bumpy bump I've sent another to the Shadow Minister with some backup info


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 8, 2011)

Funny in the letter they sent me they said they saw no reason for a review....


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## Vincey (Jan 14, 2012)

I assume it's never too late to send one off! 
Done & done.


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## Sinners121 (Mar 2, 2012)

bump


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## browny (Mar 4, 2012)

I have nothing back guess we can't all have replies hopefully it's a huge list of people bugging them on this.

they will allow 6 additions that's it sorry but that's an insult, I guess they won't do anything about reviewing their costs in any way either

.....77% only keep the 1 species, if they had more options on the list maybe it would be more eh


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 4, 2012)

browny said:


> I have nothing back guess we can't all have replies hopefully it's a huge list of people bugging them on this.
> 
> they will allow 6 additions that's it sorry but that's an insult, I guess they won't do anything about reviewing their costs in any way either
> 
> .....77% only keep the 1 species, if they had more options on the list maybe it would be more eh



Yeah I cant believe they used that reason to justify not adding more species, where is their logic?


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## Vincey (Mar 4, 2012)

As most know there are only 2 snakes on our category 3 license, Antaresia Stimsoni & Morelia Spilota Imbricata, in order to get our cat' 4 license we must have a cat 3 animal for a year and have it not escape/die/etc.
And guess what, we get another 2 choices once we have our cat 4, BHP's and Woma's.

So all I can really say is no **** 77% of people only keep the "1 species" -_-


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## Firedrake (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok guys time to bump it up again Just sent a HUGE email to Tina O'Connor (who sent me the reply from Sally's Parliament time) and Sally Talbot hopefully they still have some sway in this and can help us get to where we should have been years ago!


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## CrystalMoon (Mar 16, 2012)

Just sent a letter too  hope it helps


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## bohdi13 (Jun 3, 2012)

will send one soon , i would like more options want a roughie and i think the top 5 are : 
Water Python
Rough-Scaled Python
Pygmy Python
Brown Tree Snale
North West Carpet Python
Egernia Depressa - Pygmy Spiny Tailed Skink


as i have talked to someone about this topic and sent in a full list that could be added with the 25 species we are aloud !


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## IsaHerpLvrs (Jun 3, 2012)

sent


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## fantapants (Jun 5, 2012)

letter sent


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jun 5, 2012)

Might be a bit late but sent anyway


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## Jonesy1990 (Jun 21, 2012)

Letter sent


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## Sinners121 (Jun 21, 2012)

never to late to send!! and it is always good to reply to the email they send you!! thanks everyone


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## bohdi13 (Jul 22, 2012)

is it all good to post replies ?


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## oOLaurenOo (Jul 22, 2012)

Sent


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