# bad advice for novice hunters/shooters



## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

ive been hunting for over 5 years now and i learnt from a man ive never seen miss anything and was special forces trained as a sniper so i consider the advice and teachings ive recieved to be above the average; seems to have paid off i can shoot better than most people who have been shooting 2 or 3 times longer than i. 

to the point while in the middle of looking for advice on the internet on what brand of ammo people have found to work well for my recently purchased lee enfield mk1 no.3 
ive seen a large number of threads in various forums asking whats the best begginer rifle.

the most common answer i see is a .270 winchester or a .300 win mag to me this is rediculous what sort of idiot would recomend starting with a high powered rifle like this. 

1. the ammo is very expensive. 
2.its a great way to develop a flinch (if this happens kiss accurate and consistant shooting goodbye)
3.they are expensive to buy.

its like trying to teach a toddler to run before he can walk its absurd.

the other thing that shocks me is just how many people especially these days who learn to shoot straight off with a scope.
dont get me wrong i use scopes i like useing scopes infact my .222 rem has a 
4-15x 50 on it, however i learnt to shoot with iron sights i still have my little .22 with iron sights; truth be told without modification it couldnt have a scope. 

the issue is if you never learn how to shoot without a scope you will never develop the reflexes to be an exceptional hunter, sure sure you can do shots over 200 meters with ease but what about those times when game pops out infront of you and you only have a split second to react, ill tell you what happens your to slow and you miss your chance or miss the animal totally putting a bullet in the air which could go for kilometers. 

sorry people just had to rant.

btw anybody on here have any recomendations of wich brand of factory load works best in a lee enfield mk1 no.3 (its the one the australian army used in ww1/2)


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## TahneeMaree (Feb 20, 2010)

good thread Hooglabah, my cousins started both their shooting and archery out on the bare basics


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

its somthing i used to be guilty of when i was a few years younger i wanted to have it all now a bugger doing it right, i just wanted to do it now.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 20, 2010)

Gotta say I agree with your little rant, though the .270 isn't really much of a kicker, bloody loud though. It is still too much for a beginer. Get behind a a .222 or .223 to learn with.

As for price, everything except .22's are bloody expensive now. I'm paying $28 for a box of 20 6.5 rounds where I'm paying $6 for 50 .22 rounds. A few mates handload for this reason. Just as well I'll only use 5 or 10 6.5 rounds per night out, might go through 50+ .22 shells though.


Try highland ammo. I hear good things about it in the old 303's.

I personally use federal powershok but I have a sporterised 6.5x55 swede.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 20, 2010)

I got this fox about 2 weeks back, on my last night out. A nice big heavy dog, almost 4ft nose to tail and around 10kg. Best condition I've seen yet and we've got about 12 over the last few months.


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## TahneeMaree (Feb 20, 2010)

do you guys tan the skins?


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

not a huge fan of the federal range and i dont think they do a .303, you i could probably tolerate people learning on a .222 or 223 but not with a scope; even so its still probably a bit much still pretty loud 100db last time i checked so there is still the risk of developing a flinch.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 20, 2010)

Occasionally but honestly there isn't really much point when using a 6.5 and a .270. There isn't usually much left. This pic of of the presentable side of the fox. The other side was a bit messy.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

i do when i can get em. lambing seasion starts soon and its almost cool enough down here to go out and with the new purchase, a fresh roo hunting permit and a sheep farming property with too many bunnie's, roo's and foxe's i think all three rifles are going to be getting a hell of a workout.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

thanks for the advice btw i was looking at the highland ax and it also happens to be the cheapest of the three commonly available (highland $38, remmington $40 , winchester $41)


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

hit em with a .22 or a .222rem (only at over 100 meters) and the skins are fine as the rounds generally dont penetrate and if they do the hole is pretty small.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 20, 2010)

the difference between a .22 and a 6.5. .22 good for skins, 6.5 not so good


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

I was given that same advice when i was going to purchase my first gun mid last year. AND i ignored it and i'll tell you why. 

My first gun was a ruger M77 in .308 with a leupold VXIII 1.5x5. Up here where i live we have pigs, buffalo and geese to hunt, hence the high calibre. I wasn't made of money so i needed a gun that could kill both of our 2 common types of big game reliably, so any small calbre i just wouldn't have used. I went for the scope for two reasons, my dad gave me the leupold (and you don't turn your nose up at a $1000 scope) and i couldn't find a good quality, light weight, bolt actioned rifle in my price range and calibre. 

I did develop a flinch and pretty quickly too, not from the kick but from the god almighty boom it made when you pulled the trigger. But then i bought a shotgun for water foul which i was using three times a week during the season and my flinch is gone and i have 100% accuracy to about 45m using winchester 2 3/4' BB steel shot ammo. Which i'm pretty happy with.

Now i'm looking to get a high powered open sight lever action rifle for hunting in heavy scrub for buffalo. Probabaly a Marlin 45/70, any advice on a gun like that would be appreciated.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Bad picture but here's my two weapons.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

never buy marlin its factory produced crap.

45/70 is a perfect round for buffalo go a remmington or winchester, or if you want to go a bit cheaper go a savage or browning. 
the point of starting with a .22 is that you dont hunt untill you can shoot well enough to know you can kill in one shot every time. and to get that level of skill takes time and alot of ammo buring through 50 - 100 (i have been known to do 500) rounds of ammo in one sitting will speed up the learning process and with a .22 this will cost all of $10 where as .308 ammo cost what is it $40 for 20 if not more. 

i bet you anything you still flinch you have just compensated for it (90% of people never learn to compensate ime) and with a shot gun you will learn to snap shoot anyway.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 20, 2010)

I just read a review on the Marlin 1895XLR (.45-70 lever action). It looks like, and reads up as a decent scrub gun. Near $2000 though, its not cheap.

Get your hands on Australian Hunter, Edition 30. The review is in there.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

as a side: you lucky duck getting a leupold for free quite right you dont turn your nose up at $1000+ scope, didnt have to put it on the rifle tho


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> never buy marlin its factory produced crap.
> 
> 45/70 is a perfect round for buffalo go a remmington or winchester, or if you want to go a bit cheaper go a savage or browning.
> the point of starting with a .22 is that you dont hunt untill you can shoot well enough to know you can kill in one shot every time. and to get that level of skill takes time and alot of ammo buring through 50 - 100 (i have been known to do 500) rounds of ammo in one sitting will speed up the learning process and with a .22 this will cost all of $10 where as .308 ammo cost what is it $40 for 20 if not more.
> ...



So are you saying shooting with a shottie is good? Or bad? 

I used to shoot with iron sights with a slug gun and .22 when i was a little fella. I used to live on a farm so for fun we would dig holes or shoot lol so i wasn't really new to shooting, just hadn't done it in a long time. 

I do lean into my shots a tiny bit, i've noticed this when i've gone to shoot a goose or duck and forgot to turn the safety off.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> as a side: you lucky duck getting a leupold for free quite right you dont turn your nose up at $1000+ scope, didnt have to put it on the rifle tho



Well it wasn't going on the shottie was it?


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

you could have sent it to me  
yeah shot guns are great for improving your reflexes especially with high speed clays or double clays. i used to practice with a lamba o/u 920 i could hit 20/20 high speed double clays every time natural talent apparently tho i never really go into shotties i am buying a single barrel sports-co and getting my duck licence this year tho.

as to your rifle i forgot ruger imo they make the best big game rifles... youd hope so anyway as large caliber is their specialty.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah my shottie is a Lanber 2087 O/U, nice gun for the price. It doesn't quite fit me so i've had to compensate with my aiming but now that i know my gun i hardly ever look down the barrel anymore. Just point and shoot. 

If you're going to get a shotty get a double barrel, either over under or side by side they shoot pretty well the same, you'll be happier for it.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

cant justfiy spending the cash on a double barrel as im only going to use the thing once a year during duck season and im only shooting for me so i'll probably take 2 or 3 ducks at most and i dont need two shots.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Do what you've got to do but i recon you'll be happier with a double and you'll have a much easier time if you decide to sell it on. And no one says you have to load the 2nd barrel .


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

i figure $50 for a shotty(with family discount) that will be in better nick than any from a gun shop will do me just fine.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> i figure $50 for a shotty(with family discount) that will be in better nick than any from a gun shop will do me just fine.



Phwooaahh! I'll take two if they're going at that price!


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## Southside Morelia (Feb 20, 2010)

Yeah back to the original rant....that is shocking advice and just like some given on here about herps...LOL

I have to agree with the "marlin tag", they are factory produced crap, although for a beginner first gun, their light and do the job to get your eye in with. I also agree to learn with open sights.
I will brag about my genuine Nikon for the US, the optics are unreal. I mounted this on my Bruno 17HMR and does the trick up to medium roos no probs with the right shot of course. There was some serious stalking to bag this one, my mates property has regular hunters and the game are super shy.
Pic of just a few from last months day trip with the .17....


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

as i said family discount my god farther is a gunsmith / dealer/ collector, the enfield will be the first gun i have bought that i havent bought off him; hes got one but its part of the complete enfield set


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

yeah im very happy with my nikkon


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

the one that really spun me out was when i was down at the range and a supposedly expireance shooter was telling a young kid that a 300 win mag was a great first rifle, i almost exploaded.


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

You really got me hanging to get my weapons out where i live now Hoogs. I've just moved from Darwin to a community in Arnhem Land and this is what we wake upto every other morning...


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## kupper (Feb 20, 2010)

jeez gordo you have changed in appearance some what since the last wedding dress photoshoot ??? now your sporting some spots and some form of tail ??? please explain ?


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

i think you may have a minor pig problem up your way mate


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

kupper said:


> jeez gordo you have changed in appearance some what since the last wedding dress photoshoot ??? now your sporting some spots and some form of tail ??? please explain ?



I've developed a German fetish, and the Germans have a pig fetish. Logical really.



Hooglabah said:


> i think you may have a minor pig problem up your way mate



I personally don't see it as a problem  except when they get into my veggie patch.


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## Snowman (Feb 20, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> You really got me hanging to get my weapons out where i live now Hoogs. I've just moved from Darwin to a community in Arnhem Land and this is what we wake upto every other morning...


 
You could have at least photoshopped the knife into a lightsabre


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

i agree with you entirely a light saber is far more appropriate... did you get the mongrel in the end??


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## waruikazi (Feb 20, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> i agree with you entirely a light saber is far more appropriate... did you get the mongrel in the end??



Nah funny story actually. We found him just outside our yard just on the edge of a floodplane rooting around under a tree. Me and my flatmate jumped the fence and put a massive stalk up on him, i got so close that i could have touched him. This was all without any weapons and when i did get that close to him i thought, 'Oh bugger, what do i do now?' Luckily he didn't notice us and wandered off, then we started chasing him. He got away but he ran into our community where the dogs chased him back down into our yard lol. But Nah we couldn't catch him and he ended up smashing down a fence and got out.

There's a video of it on my FB page.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

fair nuff

another question guys where do you buy your reloading stuff from online i.e brass, projectiles, primers ect. 

haveing trouble finding anything worth while, and im really not willing to pay ls prices


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## Hooglabah (Feb 20, 2010)

where did you hit the roo south side a .17's pretty small


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## HOM3L3SS (Feb 20, 2010)

i started shootin at a target in the backyard with iron sights with an air rifle


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## Charlie09 (Feb 20, 2010)

If you can shoot you can shoot scope or not....if you cant then do the world a favour and get rid of your guns!


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## Southside Morelia (Feb 20, 2010)

If you look hard the entry is just under the jaw...yeh I know, not a "perfect" shot but dropped it anyways....lol He turned his head ever so slightly when taking the shot.
Pretty small but their high velocity, the proofs in the pudding and I take heaps of roos with this rifle. I don't shoot with the 17 if specifically shooting for bigger game, but if the opportunity to take a roo with a clean shot when shooting bunnies and I need roo meat, i'll take it.



Hooglabah said:


> where did you hit the roo south side a .17's pretty small


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

thats a bit harsh charlie i would suggest if you cant hit the broad side of a barn go to a rifle range and practice practice practice. and if after 12 months of practice you still cant hit the broad side of a bran then give up and throw away your guns.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

first bunny i took was with a .222rem right under the jaw while he was in mid chew thats was funny as. all i could think was "mmmmm this is a nice piece of gra...WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT...oh im dead." i shot him at about 50 meters so yeah made a mess.


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## nabu120 (Feb 21, 2010)

almost any one can point a gun n pull a trigger, yea accuracy does take some time n skill, but bowhunting is were the skill is at, there is some satisfaction from a kill at 50-80m with a rifle but no better feeling than when you've spent the past 1.5 hrs stalking something to get within range for a nice kill shot with a bow. i love my 65lb martin jag and wouldn't trade it for any rifle


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah i'm getting a bow in the next few weeks, i like the idea of putting a massive stalk on some big game and ThWoCk! Smackin it in the chest with an arrow.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

problem i have with bows is the risk of wounding an animal i wont even shoot is i think there is a 1% chance the animal wont just drop.


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## nabu120 (Feb 21, 2010)

there is that risk, i spent a good 2 years preacticing on targets before i even went out hunting to get my eye in etc, and at the end of the day if your not 100 percent that its gonna be a clean shot, dont take it, thats y i ts all about the hunt, that and use the right equiptment, ill post some pics tonight when i get home of the heads i use, on impact the open up to about 3inch wide and are razor sharp, that combined with the mass of the arrow behind it on a good heart lung shot and you've got a kill


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> problem i have with bows is the risk of wounding an animal i wont even shoot is i think there is a 1% chance the animal wont just drop.



This is something i think about quite often talking about bows or guns.

If you hit an animal in the vital organs with either a bow or a gun it will be over in either an instant, a few seconds or theres the chance of a few minutes. 

If you gut shot an animal there's a good chance it will survive for upto three days but it will die more often than not within that time frame. 

Ok so my thoughts are that if the animal is alive for a few minutes to a few days after you have wounded it then you are causing the animal unnecesary pain and stress. You are making the animal suffer and it is cruel. But if you think about what these animals die of in the wild in Australia, which is (especially for the introduced game without natural predators) disease, starvation, dehydration etc the animals suffer for weeks and months before they finally die. 

I will not shoot an animal without being confident that i am going to kill it cleanly but there is always a chance that something will happen that will stop a clean kill and an animal getting away wounded. In the case of this happening the above is my justification for taking that chance.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

fair nuff i do agree with you they ways your average bunny dies out bush are generally alot worse than if you gut shot em. i am of the opinion however that as a hunter it is our responsiblity t odo our utmost to ensure the animal will die quick and clean. 

there is of course those annoying situations where just as you pull the trigger the target moves a inch or so and the shot isnt perfect but they are rare.

i can say tho as of yet i have never wounded an animal but as a consequence ive also not taken a fair few shots cuz i wasnt confident of a perfectly clean kill. i think tho thats a matter of opinion i wouldnt fault sombody for taking a shot that they are not 100% on unless they actually wounded the animal (leg shot, gut shot ect) and didnt make an immediate follow up


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

cant wait to hit a bunny with the .303  it'll be great.... boom.... puff


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

Hooglabah said:


> cant wait to hit a bunny with the .303  it'll be great.... boom.... puff



I've never seen a bunny hit with a high cal but i have seen a cat tak a chest shot with a 30/30. Ur left with a spine, four legs and a head. But the legs keep moving for a little while lol, pretty grotty.


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## aliveandkicking (Feb 21, 2010)

We had a good night on the foxes a few weeks back. Most were juvies and pretty stupid. Hitting them with a 6.5 140gn sp and .270 150gn bt all but vaporised them. A mated description of them was 'sock puppets'.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

ive seen a group of bunnies hit with a 5lb black powder cannon..... well really nuff said


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

hahaha sock puppets


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

actually thats one that made me face palm i was talking to the missus about the .303 (she looked bored but i didnt care) and a girl sitting near us told me i was cruel fro useing such a big gun on the bunnies and proceed to rant about how much pain they were in for about a minuet befor the missus looked at her with the death stare and said. "do you eat meat?" girl: "yeah but i buy it from coles" missus: "your an fing idiot" Girl: "..............why" missus: "............." we walk off.


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## wiz-fiz (Feb 21, 2010)

hahaha! hooglblah, thats gold!!


Will


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

that sorta stuff happens all to often the general public seem to be morons


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## Radar (Feb 21, 2010)

nabu120 said:


> almost any one can point a gun n pull a trigger, yea accuracy does take some time n skill, but bowhunting is were the skill is at, there is some satisfaction from a kill at 50-80m with a rifle but no better feeling than when you've spent the past 1.5 hrs stalking something to get within range for a nice kill shot with a bow. i love my 65lb martin jag and wouldn't trade it for any rifle



I've got this exact model (55-70lb compound) and love it. Short, heavy, and can take a beating. I've been bowhunting since I was 9, and rifle/handgun shooting since shortly after, and I've got to say bow's definitely have their place. Got a 6.5x5.5, .243 and .22 magnum as well as the bow, but still love taking the bow out. Picking up a double shotty soon. 

The thing about arrows is they work totally differently to bullets, once people understand the difference in penetrating power and the difference in how arrows and bullets actually damage the flesh/organs and result in a kill, they will become much more humane hunters. Like's been said, if you can't drop something with one shot, don't do it. 

Last time I was out hunting, a mate's mate had a go at me about how in-humane bowhunting is (having never used a bow or seen one used). On the same trip, we found 3 live roo's with their bottom jaw shot out, all resting in water, emancipated and starving. Clearly someone had been on the place dropping shots low. Finished them off of course, but left a foul taste in my mouth. 

Couple of reasonable pigs from a recent trip.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

thats one thing i hate even more than P.E.T.A hunters who if they do make a mistake and only wound an animal dont finish them off; and the line of "oh i thought it was dead" is bs you check always check. even if you are 100% sure you still check.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

nice pigs btw where the edible or full of worms


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## Radar (Feb 21, 2010)

Always wormy in this area, same property has deer that we take for meat , as well as a few rabbits and feral dogs (some nice looking almost pure dingoes as well, but we leave those alone). 
The top animal was actually shot off the back of a sow, managed to get 6 from that mob, not bad for 3 people with bolt actions.


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

rednut said:


> Always wormy in this area, same property has deer that we take for meat , as well as a few rabbits and feral dogs (some nice looking almost pure dingoes as well, but we leave those alone).
> The top animal was actually shot off the back of a sow, managed to get 6 from that mob, not bad for 3 people with bolt actions.



What gun were you using? And where do you shoot for?


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

not bad at all shame that they are always wormy ive heard in nsw you can get some really good bacon from the pigglets


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## Radar (Feb 21, 2010)

Top one was the 6.5x5.5, bottom one was the .22mag. With the heavier stuff, I usually just go chest (kind of low behind the front leg for heart on pigs, but that 6.5 will put stuff down no matter where the shot in the chest region, makes mince of shoulder blades so angle isnt too important). Usually don't use the .22 mag on pigs, but using fmj's and shooting just behind the ear (broadside or quartering away shots) drops them pretty well with one shot, usually faster than the heavy stuff on heart shots actually (just means I have to be abolutely sure of the shot, and that the animal isn't going to flinch on me). Plenty of practice with that magnum over the years......

For deer the I haven't been able to go past the .243, and as long as 85grain or heavier slugs are used, never had an issue with it on pigs either.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

ever seen a 180 grain slug from a .374 hit a fallow deer....definition of clean kill right there


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## Radar (Feb 21, 2010)

Nope, but have used a falling block .45-70 on chital before.......imagine it to be roughly the same, lol. 

I just like the .243 for it's high velocity, flat shooting, minimum recoil and noise and the fact that it doesn't make a mess of the skins. And it's pretty cheap to feed  Found a box of .470 nitro express rounds for over $550 the other day (box of 20.....). No thanks....


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

Hoogs i think you should put some pictures up of your weapons.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

shall do a bit later dont have any of just the weapons so you will have to view my ugly mug as well and when i get the enfield from the gun shop i'll put some pic of that up aswell.... i should have some of my .22 i know i have one of my .222rem its my face book display pic. i'll put a link to the pic of that up for you 
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the big cheesy grin is cuz i had just spotted a bunny and i was turning around to get the missus to take a video of me shooting it but she suprise photoed me instead. and i had to take the shot befor i could tell her to make a video cuz the bunny heard the digital camera noise and was bolt up right, when i looked back


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

yeah im unimpressed with the price of large cal ammo.... its why in the next couple of weeks im going to invest in a reloading kit.


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## markars (Feb 21, 2010)

an off topic question- what do you do with a big game that you have killed. I know some people eat them, But if you hit a pig that is full of worms or a Buffalo ect. what do you do with the carcass?

I have seen photos of hunting trips where there have been twenty pigs piled up- Do you leave em to stink or burn them or what?


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

Depends what i'm shooting for. Geese i usually fillet and leave the carcass to rot, ducks i take the whole animal. Pigs i might take the head for a trophy but don't think i would ever eat one, buffalo i would prolly butcher a very young one but not an adult so they would be left to rot.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

generally with big game like that thats 
a) no good for eating and/or b) a pest
you take a trophy if you want and put the carcass some where discreet so that it can be eaten by other animals once your gone the longest ive ever heard of a carcass actually "rotting in the sun" for is about 3 days before its just skin and bone.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

nature is great and there is nothing wrong with leaving a easy meal out for the natives


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## Radar (Feb 21, 2010)

As a general rule I hunt to remove destructive species from the environment, so most are just left somewhere where they aren't going to bother anyone. If we are going to be in the area for a while, they are used as bait to bring in pigs, which in turn become bait to bring in more...


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## jacorin (Feb 21, 2010)

Waruikazi...... have you considered a Winchester 375 lever action for your scrub gun???? magic on pigs in scrub... had a great time with mine when i had it....also had a Winchester 30/30 lever action..another top gun


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## waruikazi (Feb 21, 2010)

No i haven't Jac, i honestly don't know alot about guns hey. I want something that is significantly bigger than my .308 so i'm not doubling up on weapons and something that can bring a buff down with a single chest shot and that can reliably get through their skulls. I don't want to get a 30/30 unless i find a good one really cheap just because the round is pretty similar in size to the .308.


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## jacorin (Feb 21, 2010)

ah ok mate,i never tried the 375 on buffs,never got up there....but it loved piggies...big enough that tiny deflections from leaves-branches still left it close to point of aim...good hunting for next weapon


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## markars (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks very much, I suppose any property big enough to hunt on , it isn't going to matter where you leave it as there will be no neighbours to complain.

Thanx for your replies


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## Hooglabah (Feb 21, 2010)

its a respect thing when hunting on sombodies property to make sure any game you leve behind is out of sight and out of mind running over a roo or a big in a paddy basher can cause the famer alot of grief never mind the risk of dead flesh getting into watering holes and poiseioning there stock never good.

45-120 for buffs the will kill em goood...... ofcourse thats an elephant round tho.

your 308 should be sufficient but my godfarther uses a 30-06 (the guy i buy my guns off and taught me to shoot)


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## KRONYK94 (Feb 21, 2010)

sorry guys just a quick question.

how dose shooting improve reflexes?
unless you do clay/pigeon shooting?


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## nabu120 (Feb 21, 2010)

pics of the tips i use for bow hunting, they shoot folded up and on impact it forces the o ring back letting the arms sissor out, great for heart lung shots.

and the robin hood is just for bragging rights n it looks cool lol


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## Hooglabah (Feb 22, 2010)

when you are out hunting things like rabbits and deer or any game really unless your varmiting (essentialy sniping) you have all of about 1 maybe 3 seconds to make that shot befor the animal bolts so you have to be able to spot the animal, aim and fire in about 1 second. 
alot of people think its all long range sniping but most of the time it isnt as you probably wont see the animal before it knows your there.


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