# MP Mark Robinson Kills Snake and Posts Photo on Facebook



## Nero Egernia (Oct 8, 2018)

Not sure if this constitutes as reptile news, but it appears to be kicking up quite a stink on social media.

https://www.facebook.com/Goldcoastsnakecatcher/posts/930455773815953

https://www.facebook.com/MarkRobinsonMP/posts/1313398832132337?hc_location=ufi











I understand that it's an irrational fear that many people seem to have, but I wish they didn't feel that killing the so-called "aggressive" snake was the only choice they had. 

EDIT: And now it's news. I'll go ahead and add the link.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...ss-snake-posts-on-facebook/ar-BBO5wC2?ocid=se

Damn, social media's scary. Once something's been posted online, it's there forever and it can have the potential to spread like wildfire.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 8, 2018)

It was just a keelback  I think the worst part was that he A) misidentified it.
B) “promoted” killing snakes


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## Stuart (Oct 8, 2018)

Facebook's heating up on it 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155963958288240&id=7148943239


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 8, 2018)

Nero Egernia said:


> Not sure if this constitutes as reptile news, but it appears to be kicking up quite a stink on social media.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Goldcoastsnakecatcher/posts/930455773815953
> 
> ...


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## Shaggers89 (Oct 9, 2018)

I have already been banned twice from his facebook page when i only was asking questions that concerned the publicity of this and the negative impact it would have on our native reptiles


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 9, 2018)

Shaggers89 said:


> I have already been banned twice from his facebook page when i only was asking questions that concerned the publicity of this and the negative impact it would have on our native reptiles



He took his fb page off line at one stage, I haven't been back to see if its back on line.
Nothing to do with me honest. I simply asked some questions which he didn't seem too keen to answer.


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## cris (Oct 9, 2018)

Think of all the innocent frogs he saved.


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## Sdaji (Oct 9, 2018)

There are actually times when killing a snake is justified and the safest option, and non herpers can't be expected to identify species. I bet around 90% of members of this site couldn't identify a Keelback, so we can't expect random members of the public to have this ability.

But, this guy is a complete ball fondler. I've handled quite a few hundred Australian Keelbacks, and I can absolutely assure everyone that there is no way a Keelback is going to bail someone up in a corner of a house, striking at them and attempting to bite, or pretending to attempt to bite. They're just not that kind of snake. This elbow licking liar clearly went out of his way to kill a small snake which has a completely inoffensive nature and tried to use it to his own political advantage by making an attempt to look like a hero. First he assumed everyone else was as stupid as he is and would believe it's a Brown Snake because no one would be able to ID it, and he figured everyone would believe his story about the circumstances, then when called out about the implausible story he tried to say it was a freak event. It's nice to see the reaction he is getting.


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## Chipewah (Oct 9, 2018)

I bet the only reason it struck is because he stepped or went near it and it was scarred and trying to defend itself. 
I can understand why he killed it, because he thought it was a venomous snake, but to say it attacked him is highly unlikely. 
At least he then went and told people to try not to kill them but that was after all the backlash he received.
Again, understandable why he did it, snake and reptile owner won't agree, but poor form posting it on Facebook with untruths.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 9, 2018)

He just conveniently had a tool to kill a snake


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## Sdaji (Oct 10, 2018)

Chipewah said:


> I bet the only reason it struck is because he stepped or went near it and it was scarred and trying to defend itself.
> I can understand why he killed it, because he thought it was a venomous snake, but to say it attacked him is highly unlikely.
> At least he then went and told people to try not to kill them but that was after all the backlash he received.
> Again, understandable why he did it, snake and reptile owner won't agree, but poor form posting it on Facebook with untruths.



I greatly doubt it ever struck at anyone. I have literally handled hundreds of them and I think I've been struck at maybe half a dozen times (mostly while actually holding and playing with them, and a couple of times by captives I've been working with confined in tubs). I think I've been bitten twice, always by working closely with them. There is absolutely no way an Australian Keelback is going to actively approach and attack a human. Very few snakes anywhere in the world will do this and even with those few species it's unusual, and Keelbacks are absolutely not among those species, they are a small, inoffensive, timid frog-feeder. This guy is clearly lying about the snake having struck at him.

One thing I have commonly seen them do when disturbed, if they don't just flee, is frantically bounce around, sometimes literally jumping right off the ground. But when doing this they never strike (perhaps they'd rarely bite if you picked them up carelessly while they did this). Anyway, we don't need to look for a reason why it struck, we can very safely assume the story is just a complete lie.

Blazing69guy: Almost any tool often including a foot with a shoe on it is an effective tool for killing a snake. People like us don't do it, but regardless of how much we hate the idea, it's very easy to safely kill most snakes with what you have on hand in most situations, whether in the home or forest, for most people. Sure, a small percentage of the population has a sufficiently extreme level of incompetence combined with a sufficient level of stupidity to attempt to kill a snake and get bitten in the process, but the reality is that for the vast majority of people who want to do it, it's completely safe and extremely easy.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 10, 2018)

He’s a stubborn one! (he deleted the comments shortly after Scott made his last comment)


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## cris (Oct 10, 2018)

Wow... that biased propaganda is borderline insane. I personally have no problem with someone killing a brown snake legally, in some cases it is the safest option. While I doubt it was striking, if someone is really scared of snakes they could interpret all sort of non aggressive behavior as an attack. i have had snakes try to escape by rapidly moving towards me, once even had a marsh snake go into my pocket lol. If I didn't have a clue about snake behavior this could easily been interpreted as aggressive behavior.

Being a politician there is an almost nonexistant chance he is telling the full truth. Just trying to make himself sound better and avoid saying anything that could get him in trouble.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 10, 2018)

At least Scott got a response even if it was pathetic.
For anyone who is not equipped & fully prepared any attempt to kill venemous snakes often end quite badly so while I don't disagree that there may be situations where killing a snake might be an option that needs to be considered someone who is inexperienced in dealing with snakes, scared and therefor not able to think 100% clearly should not be attempting this task unless they have no other option.

I prefer to be an advocate for the stand still or if you can walk away from the snake and use a phone to call someone who actually knows what they are doing


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## RoryBreaker (Oct 10, 2018)

What party is this MP from? The LNP (Liberal and National party for those outside qld).

Just keep that in mind when voting at the next election. They are all tarred with the same brush. Climate change denying oxygen thieves the lot of them. Yet he lives in the bush/rural setting but is too lazy or naive to educate himself of what lives on his property.


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## Sdaji (Oct 10, 2018)

RoryBreaker said:


> What party is this MP from? The LNP (Liberal and National party for those outside qld).
> 
> Just keep that in mind when voting at the next election. They are all tarred with the same brush. Climate change denying oxygen thieves the lot of them. Yet he lives in the bush/rural setting but is too lazy or naive to educate himself of what lives on his property.



I don't care who you vote for, but basing which entire party you support on the stupid action of one individual person in that party completely unrelated to their job is as bad a way of dealing with your choice as a voter as killing a Keelback and saying it was attacking you is a bad way of dealing with a snake incident. Most people hate snakes and will be proud of killing one. This will be true of the people in all political parties. Cherry picking one incident makes no sense. We really should be basing our votes on the ability of politicians to do a good job, and the increasing trend towards voting based on irrelevant events is part of the clear political issues we are being faced with in the modern world.


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## Yellowtail (Oct 11, 2018)

It's interesting to read the different points of view on this but there is one indisputable fact. Mark Robinson killed a defenceless protected native animal and should be prosecuted and fined as an example to other misguided individuals who think it is ok to do this. He admitted and boasted of his actions so there is no dispute as to the fact of his guilt.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 11, 2018)

Yellowtail said:


> It's interesting to read the different points of view on this but there is one indisputable fact. Mark Robinson killed a defenceless protected native animal and should be prosecuted and fined as an example to other misguided individuals who think it is ok to do this. He admitted and boasted of his actions so there is no dispute as to the fact of his guilt.


Very true YT, if he gets away with it, it shows how weak the government is to “safeguard” its members


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## Sdaji (Oct 11, 2018)

You guys really should try to stay objective on this issue. Whether or not the snake is dangerous is legally irrelevant. If you believe a reptile poses a danger you are legally entitled to kill it. Even accounting for the lies this idiot told, he no doubt genuinely did believe it posed a danger, so it was legal.

I didn't make the laws, but the laws are what they are, regardless of whether you or I like them. Snake people keep wanting to believe that it's illegal to kill snakes and that killing them can/will result in repercussions. I don't think anyone has ever been given any form of punishment for it in Australia. For that to happen you would pretty much need a blunt statement on record that you had no doubt the snake posed no danger and you killed it simply for enjoyment, and even then it would be extremely unlikely. Indeed, people killing snakes just because they want to is a routine occurrence. It happens many thousands of times, probably hundreds of thousands of times per year in Australia, and it's often openly bragged about.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 11, 2018)

He's not going to be prosectuted but the impact to him by his own hand has been interesting. I saw articles in 3 on-line news papers covering this incident. Mud sticks and when you are in politics it tends to stick for a long time.


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## Sdaji (Oct 11, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> He's not going to be prosectuted but the impact to him by his own hand has been interesting. I saw articles in 3 on-line news papers covering this incident. Mud sticks and when you are in politics it tends to stick for a long time.



Don't forget, most QLDers hate snakes and this has likely helped him as much as hurt. It's good to see the vocal minority call him out and he totally deserves it, but while most people won't feel comfortable openly supporting him, votes aren't cast publicly.

It has been an interesting incident.


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## Snowfella (Oct 11, 2018)

Had a Brissy member of another forum clearly state the other day that he got a call from his missus about a suspect brown hiding from their dog underneath a planter box in their backyard so his first point of call was to dump a pot of boiling water all over it. In the end turned out to be a blue tongue and rather than take it it to a vet he released it back across the road into a reserve. Doubt a BT having been doused in boiling water will survive long, and in severe pain for every minute!


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## Sdaji (Oct 12, 2018)

Snowfella said:


> Had a Brissy member of another forum clearly state the other day that he got a call from his missus about a suspect brown hiding from their dog underneath a planter box in their backyard so his first point of call was to dump a pot of boiling water all over it. In the end turned out to be a blue tongue and rather than take it it to a vet he released it back across the road into a reserve. Doubt a BT having been doused in boiling water will survive long, and in severe pain for every minute!



I've heard many people deal with snakes in that way


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## Yellowtail (Oct 12, 2018)

I've seen the same morons deliberately swerve their car to run over a blue tongue crossing a road, maybe making wildlife care part of the education curriculum instead of some of the other garbage kids are taught might be a good idea. The mainstream media could do more, like when covering snake stories point out it is illegal to injure any Australian reptile.


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## Sdaji (Oct 12, 2018)

Yellowtail said:


> I've seen the same morons deliberately swerve their car to run over a blue tongue crossing a road, maybe making wildlife care part of the education curriculum instead of some of the other garbage kids are taught might be a good idea. The mainstream media could do more, like when covering snake stories point out it is illegal to injure any Australian reptile.



It is not unconditionally illegal to injure/kill any Australian reptile. If you believe it poses an immediate danger (even if it actually doesn't) you can legally kill it. Even the media isn't going to spread information that blatantly incorrect. Giving incorrect legal advice to the general public goes beyond the scope of lies the media will tell, even if its well within the scope of the herper community's lies.

The reason people kill lizards on the highway is not because they're unaware of the legalities or ethics, it's because they're sadistic scum, and education doesn't solve that. Schools already blast kids with the relevant 'be nice to animals' type messages. Most kids don't need this message, and the type of person who is going to be prone to running over a blue-tongued lizard gets more and more annoyed and frustrated by the attempts at banging the message out that they're later going to take the frustration out on a greater number of lizards (or maybe even emus or whatever).

If you imagine you are the type of person who likes to kill snakes, reading what herpers post would make you really heavily inclined to go out and kill more.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 12, 2018)

Sdaji said:


> It is not unconditionally illegal to injure/kill any Australian reptile. If you believe it poses an immediate danger (even if it actually doesn't) you can legally kill it. Even the media isn't going to spread information that blatantly incorrect. Giving incorrect legal advice to the general public goes beyond the scope of lies the media will tell, even if its well within the scope of the herper community's lies.
> 
> The reason people kill lizards on the highway is not because they're unaware of the legalities or ethics, it's because they're sadistic scum, and education doesn't solve that. Schools already blast kids with the relevant 'be nice to animals' type messages. Most kids don't need this message, and the type of person who is going to be prone to running over a blue-tongued lizard gets more and more annoyed and frustrated by the attempts at banging the message out that they're later going to take the frustration out on a greater number of lizards (or maybe even emus or whatever).
> 
> If you imagine you are the type of person who likes to kill snakes, reading what herpers post would make you really heavily inclined to go out and kill more.



Sadly I think you are right ,as a truckie I see so many instances of deliberate killing or attempted killing I want to chase them down and bash them but I am (usually) a peaceful man, although it makes me angry to see this wanton disregard for life. Just because they are animals doesn't mean they deserve less respect than humans.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 12, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> Sadly I think you are right ,as a truckie I see so many instances of deliberate killing or attempted killing I want to chase them down and bash them but I am (usually) a peaceful man, although it makes me angry to see this wanton disregard for life. Just because they are animals doesn't mean they deserve less respect than humans.


All this time I thought u were a woman o.o


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## Sdaji (Oct 13, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> Sadly I think you are right ,as a truckie I see so many instances of deliberate killing or attempted killing I want to chase them down and bash them but I am (usually) a peaceful man, although it makes me angry to see this wanton disregard for life. Just because they are animals doesn't mean they deserve less respect than humans.



Obviously I'm right, it's clearly stated in the laws, and I'm not aware of any country in the world which has any other legal situation when it comes to wildlife.

While there is virtually no realistic situation in which I can imagine a car being used to legitimately kill a snake, and killing one on the highway is just a terrible thing to do, to be realistic, we should (and virtually every sane person does) put human life above animal life. When push comes to shove virtually no sane person will sacrifice their life for a snake's or put a snake's life as equal to or above their own, and no human should be expected to. Silly virtue signaling aside, animals are not equal to humans, and when put on the spot even virtue signalers will show their true colours.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 13, 2018)

Sdaji , I think you missed the point I was trying to make.I wasn't disputing the law or the fact that people will put their family above animals,obviously the family comes first no matter what threat.I would kill to protect mine.
I was agreeing with you that that most of the people killing animals/reptiles/birds are a bunch of sadists who have no respect.Many start off torturing animals before progressing to human victims.


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## Sdaji (Oct 13, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> Sdaji , I think you missed the point I was trying to make.I wasn't disputing the law or the fact that people will put their family above animals,obviously the family comes first no matter what threat.I would kill to protect mine.
> I was agreeing with you that that most of the people killing animals/reptiles/birds are a bunch of sadists who have no respect.Many start off torturing animals before progressing to human victims.



What was the point you say I missed?

On the latter issue, it's actually a myth. Not that I in any way condone or endorse cruelty to animals, but despite this myth being very commonly told, like much of what is regurgitated online, it is not supported by actual data. The psychological studies and the statistics actually show it to be false, but that doesn't really tell a story anyone particularly wants to hear or tell, so people ignore it. I'm one of those weirdos who puts fact checking above agenda pushing, even when the facts go against my agendas.


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## cris (Oct 13, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> I was agreeing with you that that most of the people killing animals/reptiles/birds are a bunch of sadists who have no respect.Many start off torturing animals before progressing to human victims.



You are way off the mark, people who don't kill animals, or condone it being done are weirdos who are out of touch with nature. Killing a snake (or other animal) for the purpose of protecting yourself is normal. The opposite is weird. Reptile keeping involves killing heaps of animals, it seems a bit hypocritical to call someone else out for killing animals for safety reasons.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 13, 2018)

cris said:


> You are way off the mark, people who don't kill animals, or condone it being done are weirdos who are out of touch with nature. Killing a snake (or other animal) for the purpose of protecting yourself is normal. The opposite is weird. Reptile keeping involves killing heaps of animals, it seems a bit hypocritical to call someone else out for killing animals for safety reasons.


The only killing of animals that I can see is food for my reptiles,this is done humanely! It is totally a different thing to what some of these so called humans have done.I don't endorse killing for no reason or painfully ending life.If for some reason you must end a life do it quickly and humanely.


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## Imported_tuatara (Oct 15, 2018)

cris said:


> You are way off the mark, people who don't kill animals, or condone it being done are weirdos who are out of touch with nature. Killing a snake (or other animal) for the purpose of protecting yourself is normal. The opposite is weird. Reptile keeping involves killing heaps of animals, it seems a bit hypocritical to call someone else out for killing animals for safety reasons.


 While yes- killing other species of animals is natural and normal, taking the humanity of humans is stupid. Killing an animal inhumanely/for no reason isn't human. Of course, we are still animals. Killing something that feels like a threat is normal and instinctual, same with killing to eat. the only difference between us and other apes is we're smarter, and yet so many of us still act just as primitive as we were a hundred thousand years ago. Kinda sad. I definitely find the person in question promoting the killing of snakes(/native fauna in general) and trying to argue and be stubborn against people who know 100% more than him about anything Australian other than politics as stupid and deserving of insulting, but considering he did probably think it was able to kill him(even if he did twist the story and act as if it had cornered him, which it most definitely did not) it still is technically legal, even if a lot of people think he does deserve at least to be fined. Just my 2 cents on the case.


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## PythonLegs (Oct 18, 2018)

This bloke is an absolute tool. One of the dumdums who have taken a page out of ‘bushy’ bob katters book and think buying an akubra from rm williams makes them authentic.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 18, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> All this time I thought u were a woman o.o



And what does this crap bring to any thread?
[doublepost=1539856601,1539849519][/doublepost]Killing for food or for security reasons are really non negotiable. If a person believes they or their family members are at risk, (even if that belief is born of their own stupidity or lack of education).
Killing animals for 'fun' is a learned behaviour and though I think Sdaji is correct in that schools do already promote good animal welfare the type of psychopath that finds it fun to kill for no reason has learned this lack of morals/respect somewhere, normally the parents through their own irrational fears. Education is the only way to reduce the reckless killing.


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## Sdaji (Oct 19, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> And what does this crap bring to any thread?
> [doublepost=1539856601,1539849519][/doublepost]Killing for food or for security reasons are really non negotiable. If a person believes they or their family members are at risk, (even if that belief is born of their own stupidity or lack of education).
> Killing animals for 'fun' is a learned behaviour and though I think Sdaji is correct in that schools do already promote good animal welfare the type of psychopath that finds it fun to kill for no reason has learned this lack of morals/respect somewhere, normally the parents through their own irrational fears. Education is the only way to reduce the reckless killing.



I think it is a false belief that humans have no innate joy or love of killing animals. It would be completely bizarre if it wasn't in human nature to enjoy killing animals. When I find a tree covered in ripe berries, I feel great joy and I gleefully pick them. I like to see similar joy in people's faces in situations like that. We feel that way because our brain stimulates pleasure centres in the brain as a reward for finding food which will help our goals of survival, reproduction and social status. Even in a crazy world of political correctness and mind warping, almost everyone will agree with what I'm saying about the berries.

In the natural world where our DNA and instincts were being shaped and created, killing an animal meant much the same thing as finding a tree covered in berries, except more so. The food was of higher value and the social status rewards were greater, not only because you're bringing back better food value, but because people are more impressed by the skills of a successful hunt than someone who conquered a tree. Thus, we have strong drives to kill animals, and it is only through a distortion of the natural world in the modern world that people are often completely disconnected from that and develop a view of animals as auxilliary humans, along with being taught from a young age that killing or hurting them is bad and we should feel ashamed if we like it, etc etc.

Despite being obviously correct, the above has probably alienated most of the people who read it.

There are, of course, all sorts of reasons for having a desire or aversion to killing and/or harming animals, with good and bad ones on both sides, and some people have primarily bad reasons for wanting to kill, and pretty much all reasons for wanting to inflict pain and suffering are bad, but there are plenty of completely normal, natural, healthy instincts in most normal humans, especially males, for killing animals and finding it pleasurable.

Probably more truth than most people can handle, perhaps anyone else, but there it is.

And for the record, I personally have a very strong desire not to see anything suffer, even the worst criminals (I'm all for capital punishment in extreme cases but never for the 'string 'em up in public and make them suffer while we all watch' type mentality, which is remarkably common). I have no problem with killing animals for practical purposes as long as it's done as humanely as reasonably possible, and I don't think it's a problem if someone enjoys hunting. It requires a very strong disconnection from basic reality not to understand why normal humans can find pleasure in hunting or to think that it must be a learned behaviour.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 19, 2018)

.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 19, 2018)

Sdaji said:


> It requires a very strong disconnection from basic reality not to understand why normal humans can find pleasure in hunting or to think that it must be a learned behaviour.



Then I must be disconnected Sadji as I see nothing pleasurable in hunting unless it has good reason. Maybe my DNA has developed a bit more than others from neanderthal man although Im not a vegan or even a vegetarian. I fail to see how someone can get a thrill from shooting an animal from 100's of meters away just to boost their obviously low testosterone levels.
I have never felt anything other than disgust for those who think its fun to go out trophy hunting and it has always pained me when confronted with the occasional situation where I have had to kill an animal.

Killing an animal to eat it because of hunger is justified and no one is saying differently. Would you pick those berries from the tree just to throw them on the floor and stamp on them? This just typifies to me everything that is wrong with the human race at the moment.


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## Sdaji (Oct 19, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Then I must be disconnected Sadji as I see nothing pleasurable in hunting unless it has good reason. Maybe my DNA has developed a bit more than others from neanderthal man although Im not a vegan or even a vegetarian. I fail to see how someone can get a thrill from shooting an animal from 100's of meters away just to boost their obviously low testosterone levels.
> I have never felt anything other than disgust for those who think its fun to go out trophy hunting and it has always pained me when confronted with the occasional situation where I have had to kill an animal.
> 
> Killing an animal to eat it because of hunger is justified and no one is saying differently. Would you pick those berries from the tree just to throw them on the floor and stamp on them? This just typifies to me everything that is wrong with the human race at the moment.



Wow.

If you can, calm down, read that again, and you'll see that you genuinely are quite disconnected from reality, and when confronted with reality it causes you pain and confusion, which causes an outburst like that.

You've used multiple classic, stereotypical false techniques there such as dodging the issue using false equivalencies and distraction, typical of people trying to avoid a reality they don't want to accept.

I could dissect and analyse your post, and it would be interesting, but it would obviously just rile you up and you're too emotional to process it, so I won't.


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## cris (Oct 19, 2018)

Stop triggering the NPC's lol



Sdaji said:


> I think it is a false belief that humans have no innate joy or love of killing animals. It would be completely bizarre if it wasn't in human nature to enjoy killing animals.


I actually disagree with this at a nitpicking level. While I'm very much pro hunting, it is not actually killing that is enjoyable (for me anyway). Like you and I imagine many people on here, I have killed many thousands of rodents, I don't find it enjoyable at all. Hunting is good fun, but killing isn't really required, catching animals without hurting them or shooting them with cameras instead of guns is just as much fun IMO.


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## Sdaji (Oct 19, 2018)

cris said:


> Stop triggering the NPC's lol



LOL HAHAHA LOL!

Brilliant 



> I actually disagree with this at a nitpicking level. While I'm very much pro hunting, it is not actually killing that is enjoyable (for me anyway). Like you and I imagine many people on here, I have killed many thousands of rodents, I don't find it enjoyable at all. Hunting is good fun, but killing isn't really required, catching animals without hurting them or shooting them with cameras instead of guns is just as much fun IMO.



I have killed something up around a million rodents. Absolutely, like you, I take no pleasure in it. Very relevant here is that we have become accustomed to killing these rodents as a mundane chore rather than it ever having been any sort of a challenge, and we don't associating it with gaining nourishment or feeding ourselves. If I got a job picking fruit I would hate that too within the first hour.

And yep, I totally get you with hunting not always requiring killing to be a thrill or bringing happiness. Sport fishing (releasing them live) is very popular, although I think it's cruel and distasteful to drag an animal by the mouth with a barbed hook, take it outside the environment is can survive in, then throw it back for fun. Imagine impaling birds or cats by the mouth, dragging them underwater for a quick picture then letting them go! People would literally be up in arms. I'm not going to actively try to stop anyone, and I'm totally into fishing (if I am fishing, I'm wanting to eat what I catch. I'd be feeling bored and guilty catching and releasing). But, it demonstrates that the desire to hunt is clearly in us. Despite not having an interest in sport fishing, I do enjoy catching snakes and a wide variety of other animals then after a quick look and picture letting them go unharmed. I'm sure a very big part of it is the instinct of learning to track, find and secure an animal (which naturally would be killed and eaten) being satisfied. For most people in touch with their natural instincts, especially men, making a kill while hunting is a thrill. There are variations for everyone, such as me personally finding no excitement in fish catch and release while others love it, and for you it might be more about the capture rather than the kill, and you may not see the distinction between killing a rat as a chore and killing an animal which you will personally eat and share with people who will eat with you (though likely after the fruit picking analogy you may change your mind). If I was hunting, say, deer, with, say, spears, or a rifle, or whatever projectile/distance weapon, and the food was my main motivation and that food was of high importance, the moment of the kill would be extremely exciting. That being a very natural situation in our genetic makeup, it's not at all surprising that people typically have a drive to kill animals in a variety of ways, or a predisposition to that drive. It certainly doesn't mean every person will have those drives or even the predisposition, and obviously everyone will express them at least a bit differently.

There are much darker sides to natural human instincts, but if this one is too confronting for most, I'm not in any doubt that effectively everyone here would be triggered and angry and unreceptive if presented with them!


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## Bl69aze (Oct 19, 2018)

Idk about y’all but I’m a 90s kid and I had so much fun with a magnifying glass, the sun (sometimes little novelty “poppers”) and an ants nest when I was about 10

While I wouldn’t do that now, you can’t change the past and im sure some people here probably did the same thing


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## Sdaji (Oct 19, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> Idk about y’all but I’m a 90s kid and I had so much fun with a magnifying glass, the sun (sometimes little novelty “poppers”) and an ants nest when I was about 10
> 
> While I wouldn’t do that now, you can’t change the past and im sure some people here probably did the same thing



Good point. Love it or hate it, you can't deny that children are prone to having a strong impulse to kill ants and small insects. We're all familiar with this phenomenon existing and it certainly doesn't need to be taught to them. Why do kids want to pull the wings off flies and burn ants? Why does a cat want to kill mice? Why does a lion want to kill a gazelle?

Is anyone really so disconnected from reality that they can't understand basic biology? Well, obviously the answer is yes! But you don't need to be among those is such astonishing denial.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 20, 2018)

Sdaji said:


> disconnected from reality



This must be the go to phrase of the moment


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## Sdaji (Oct 20, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> This must be the go to phrase of the moment



Sadly, it's something becoming extremely widespread in western countries, and when so many people are displaying it, yes, it becomes something worthy of comment.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 20, 2018)

I don't quite get you Sdaji, some of what you say makes sense but at the same time you seem to like taking a twisted view of what people say and distorting it into something wierd. Are you a psychiatrist?
You remind me of Dr Hannibal Lechter (?) who had a very distorted view of the world.
As well as being somewhat of a hypocrite; In the post about childrens pythons your first response was, "yes get a heat lamp" only to change your position a few posts later to say " no heat lamps, childrens pythons are nocturnal".
I know you learned from your early mistakes but why say yes? and then no?
I am confused about your real identity.


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## Snapped (Oct 20, 2018)

I have never hunted anything, nor do I wish to do so. As a female, maybe that's the norm, I don't know.
I know my ex loved hunting, he would sit for hours on top of a bloody hill, waiting for bunnies to come out of their hole. Then bang, bang, bang. High powered rifle with telescopic sights. That's not hunting, that's just pathetic, and I refused to go on weekends away when he was taking a gun. He knew my stance on it.
I know lots of men who would never hunt, and a few who would kill anything that moves, and that includes snakes. 
I just don't get the 'thrill of a kill' mindset...who gets enjoyment out of killing an animal? If you're hunting for food, because you need to eat, fine. Dispatch the animal humanely and quickly. Hunting for pleasure is just wrong (IMO). Why should an animal lose its life because you get a thrill out of it?


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## Bl69aze (Oct 20, 2018)

Snapped said:


> I have never hunted anything, nor do I wish to do so. As a female, maybe that's the norm, I don't know.
> I know my ex loved hunting, he would sit for hours on top of a bloody hill, waiting for bunnies to come out of their hole. Then bang, bang, bang. High powered rifle with telescopic sights. That's not hunting, that's just pathetic, and I refused to go on weekends away when he was taking a gun. He knew my stance on it.
> I know lots of men who would never hunt, and a few who would kill anything that moves, and that includes snakes.
> I just don't get the 'thrill of a kill' mindset...who gets enjoyment out of killing an animal? If you're hunting for food, because you need to eat, fine. Dispatch the animal humanely and quickly. Hunting for pleasure is just wrong (IMO). Why should an animal lose its life because you get a thrill out of it?


It’s not hunting if you use a gun imo, that’s just mass slaughter, it’s like bringing a tank to a knife fight

Hunting to me is using a good ol bow and arrow and a knife and eating EVERYTHING you get


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## cris (Oct 20, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> It’s not hunting if you use a gun imo, that’s just mass slaughter, it’s like bringing a tank to a knife fight
> 
> Hunting to me is using a good ol bow and arrow and a knife and eating EVERYTHING you get


 Guns are far better from an animal welfare perspective and are a superior tool for pest control compared to a bow. I'm happy to leave the food for the lacies and quolls, nothing goes to waste in nature.


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## Sdaji (Oct 21, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> I don't quite get you Sdaji, some of what you say makes sense but at the same time you seem to like taking a twisted view of what people say and distorting it into something wierd. Are you a psychiatrist?
> You remind me of Dr Hannibal Lechter (?) who had a very distorted view of the world.
> As well as being somewhat of a hypocrite; In the post about childrens pythons your first response was, "yes get a heat lamp" only to change your position a few posts later to say " no heat lamps, childrens pythons are nocturnal".
> I know you learned from your early mistakes but why say yes? and then no?
> I am confused about your real identity.



Strange post to make in this thread. Weird and vague criticisms, but the only example you use is an irrelevant one from another thread. I never recommended a heat lamp. For memory, he asked if he could, I said yes. I then went on to say I wouldn't do it and don't recommend it. I would never initiate a recommendation of a heat lamp for Antaresia. Ah, I've just had a look at the thread. He used an example of a heat lamp, which I misread as a request for which type of heat lamp he could use. My mistake, sorry for the confusion there. I find it puzzling and amusing that this causes you confusion about my 'real identity'! Haha  I'm pretty open about myself really, wear my heart on my sleeve for the most part, have often turned up to reptile expos around the country, been involved in running herp meetings and actively involved in the magazines (back when they existed) etc. If you're confused about my 'real identity' feel free to ask 
[doublepost=1540058064,1540057293][/doublepost]Hunting is hunting. Overkill hunting which makes it easy might be crap or pathetic or whatever, but it's still hunting. Arguably, hunting for fun and leaving your kills to rot is not hunting (I wouldn't argue this, but I can see some validity to it). I wouldn't do it and I think it's bad, but I can still understand it. The fact that something is bad doesn't make it unnatural or something which doesn't exist. When we evolved in a natural environment and then suddenly snapped into living in a modern world, many of our instincts don't make sense in the new environment and people often end up doing stupid and destructive things. We have better than ever living standards, access to high quality food, availability of housing, and we whinge more than ever, have higher depression levels than ever, higher levels of obesity than ever... clearly things don't always work when something designed for one environment is put into another. A lot of this is conceptually difficult for many people to grasp, and also triggers a lot of mental protest from people who just don't want it to be true.

And, even in the natural world, things were never perfect. Violence is inherent in humans. That doesn't mean it's good or I like it, but any sane, intelligent person can see that it exists in many animals, humans being just another example. Same can be said of rape, lying, and many other things most of us see as bad, but if we are rational we can understand why they are there. It's also worth noting that we are an extremely plastic (in the true sense of the word - I don't mean 'fake', although for many people that's true too) and polymorphic species in terms of our behaviour. Some individuals for complex reasons develop in the direction for intelligence or violence or use strategies of being honest and gaining trust or simply bashing, killing and overpowering others, being nice and pairing up with someone or going out and being a rapist (or a combination of both), etc etc, and these are all perfectly natural aspects of human behaviour. And, of course, these things are different between the sexes, regardless of whatever nonsense the PC brigade tries to say these days.


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## Snapped (Oct 21, 2018)

How is rape, bashing, killing and overpowering others, perfectly natural aspects of human behaviour? I can't believe you wrote such a statement to be honest.


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## cris (Oct 21, 2018)

Snapped said:


> How is rape, bashing, killing and overpowering others, perfectly natural aspects of human behaviour? I can't believe you wrote such a statement to be honest.



Probably similar to how it is natural for people to have waste disposal running through and close to recreational areas. It might not be ideal, just the way it is.


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## Bl69aze (Oct 21, 2018)

Snapped said:


> How is rape, bashing, killing and overpowering others, perfectly natural aspects of human behaviour? I can't believe you wrote such a statement to be honest.


I think he’s referring to primal instincts 

Is to be the dominate one, look at chimps/other great apes which we “evolved from”, males rape/bash/kill females/other males to display dominance or fight for alpha rank

Although I would never say it’s normal to go out on a sunny Monday afternoon (any day/anytime) and do anything like that


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## Sdaji (Oct 21, 2018)

Snapped said:


> How is rape, bashing, killing and overpowering others, perfectly natural aspects of human behaviour? I can't believe you wrote such a statement to be honest.



They are aspects of natural behaviour because they normally occurred in natural human life. They still occur in all human communities. They also exist in every other primate species, and many many other animal species. There are evolutionary advantages to carrying out these behaviours, which is why they are part of the natural instincts of these animal species.

To fail to realise this basic fact is to be extremely disconnected from reality.

I am in no way saying they are good or desirable or to be condoned or anything of the sort. I basically see them as aspects of our evolution which we should now do our best to overcome and deal with appropriately, but they do clearly exist. The fact that we don't like it and may wish it wasn't true doesn't change the fact that it is.




cris said:


> Probably similar to how it is natural for people to have waste disposal running through and close to recreational areas. It might not be ideal, just the way it is.



Obviously that is not natural, but again, it does exist, and in this case, is necessary. You personally are responsible for your share of it, and because of people like you and me it is a necessary feature of the modern world.


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## cris (Oct 21, 2018)

It is an anatomy joke...


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## Sdaji (Oct 21, 2018)

cris said:


> It is an anatomy joke...



Oh, right. I thought it was a reference to the water dragons. Wrong thread. It is kinda weird that the playground is so close to the sewer. Another somewhat unfortunate reality I suppose.


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