# cane toads



## discomat (Nov 6, 2009)

are there any nifty ways to keep the toads away as we have many beautiful tree frogs at our house and am concerned about them being replaced by these bumpy intruders.


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## Cheyne_Jones (Nov 6, 2009)

9 iron


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## Mayhem (Nov 6, 2009)

yeh, we've started seeing a few toads for the first time in ages lately, was not really much I could do except introduce them to a large rock in the head as rapidly and humanely as possible.


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## shamous1 (Nov 6, 2009)

*No*

The only way is to keep going out anc ollecting them and then freezing them.

If you are willing to do a bit of hard work you can put a dent and at least stop what you see from reproducing.


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## Mayhem (Nov 6, 2009)

yeh the one i got was sitting in my fishpond calling for a female - wasn't going to let that happen.


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## ashisnothereman (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheyne_Jones said:


> 9 iron




haha classic!
and very true. a child hood activity that passed many boring nights when i was up in qld.


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## Sturdy (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheyne_Jones said:


> 9 iron



no your wrong, a 3 iron work better...


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## CountryTriton (Nov 6, 2009)

Detol in a supersoaker or a bucket with fifty fifty salt solution >


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## slim6y (Nov 6, 2009)

You all just love winding me up right?

Do not use your cruel methods - a 9 iron or detol or any sporting equipment, acids, liquids etc... are all cruel and is tantamount to animal cruelty - it puts you in the same bracket as those who torture snakes.

If you want to kill something do it with some dignity and do it quickly.

In the case of a toad, it's refrigerator then freezer then wrapped up and thrown away so their poison can no longer do any damage to our wildlife.

Is it that hard to be humane?


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## slim6y (Nov 6, 2009)

Perhaps read this one:

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/other-animals-5363/cane-toad-122013


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## azn4114 (Nov 6, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> yeh the one i got was sitting in my fishpond calling for a female - wasn't going to let that happen.


 the pricks eat my fish,keep em outta ya pond


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## Cheyne_Jones (Nov 6, 2009)

slim6y said:


> You all just love winding me up right?
> 
> Do not use your cruel methods - a 9 iron or detol or any sporting equipment, acids, liquids etc... are all cruel and is tantamount to animal cruelty - it puts you in the same bracket as those who torture snakes.
> 
> ...



I'd rather be killed rather fast by a blow from a 9 iron compared to having my blood crystallise into shards of ice ripping my blood vessels apart....

But hey I catch fish on sharp hooks and shoot feral animals in the name of having a good time...


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## Chookie73 (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheyne_Jones said:


> I'd rather be killed rather fast by a blow from a 9 iron compared to having my blood crystallise into shards of ice ripping my blood vessels apart....
> 
> But hey I catch fish on sharp hooks and shoot feral animals in the name of having a good time...


 

Cane Toads are Poikilotherms so freezing them is not painful as it is with warm blooded animals, it is the most humane way of killing them.

If you keep collecting and do it diligently every night you will find significant decreases int he numbers you are getting coming about.


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## waruikazi (Nov 6, 2009)

The toads wont replace the frogs. The frogs live up nice and high and the toads on the ground.


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## slim6y (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheyne_Jones said:


> I'd rather be killed rather fast by a blow from a 9 iron compared to having my blood crystallise into shards of ice ripping my blood vessels apart....
> 
> But hey I catch fish on sharp hooks and shoot feral animals in the name of having a good time...



Actually if you think about it - the cold blooded system will shut down long before crystals form.

Secondly - a 9 iron may kill the toad, but it leaves the poisonous shell behind ready for another animal to eat it and be killed - I'd agree with you if you found the remnants of the toad and disposed of it adequately then I'd have no argument. But that's just not the case is it?

If I catch a fish I usually do it for food - so it's unlikely to survive - I don't catch 'game' fish and most indications show while the fish suffers some short term damage from catch and release, the long term effects are slight if at all - most (so I have read) will live a happy and productive life. And if you're fishing correctly you won't catch non-target or undersized fish (in most cases). 

Shooting - when done properly is an adequate method of killing. Personally, I have the shooting ability of a blind, no arms hedgehog so I wouldn't choose shooting as my sport of choice as I'd leave too many injured animals.

All I say is something really simple... If you kill - that's fine... But make it quick. Is it that hard to understand?

And if you do kill a cane toad, remove it from the environment and pop it in a bin inside a plastic bag so it will cause no more damage to wildlife (hopefully).

I really don't think any of what I said can be argued with - unfortunately people believe detol, metho, etc are effective humane methods - it's NOT! And that's my message.


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## Cheyne_Jones (Nov 6, 2009)

Totally agree, spaying a caustic substance on anything is cruel.

I have never thought about the fact that I leave dead toads everywhere... I agree with you that is a good idea to get rid of the dead animals.

You wont catch me putting down the 9 iron though, my fridge and freezer are for food not toads 



slim6y said:


> Actually if you think about it - the cold blooded system will shut down long before crystals form.
> 
> Secondly - a 9 iron may kill the toad, but it leaves the poisonous shell behind ready for another animal to eat it and be killed - I'd agree with you if you found the remnants of the toad and disposed of it adequately then I'd have no argument. But that's just not the case is it?
> 
> ...


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## slim6y (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheyne_Jones said:


> Totally agree, spaying a caustic substance on anything is cruel.
> 
> I have never thought about the fact that I leave dead toads everywhere... I agree with you that is a good idea to get rid of the dead animals.
> 
> You wont catch me putting down the 9 iron though, my fridge and freezer are for food not toads



 

Yay - glad you can still get your golf practice... but now you need the equivalent of a duck dog but with tolerance to the toads poison... then you won't have to ever worry 

Maybe you should try a clubbing sport rather than a hitting sport then  Just as much fun with less distance to travel!


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## Cheyne_Jones (Nov 6, 2009)

Totally, I hate golf anyways, good way to ruin a nice walk.

On a more serious note I think we as reptile enthusiasts should really band together to do more in order to diminish toad numbers, they really affect the species we are passionate about and lets face it, short of a miracle the government is fresh out of ideas...


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## slim6y (Nov 6, 2009)

Hey, the government don't even list them as a noxious pest, they're not even in the same category as opuntia, mimosa and mosquito fish!!! They've done nothing at all.

There's talk of a virus... 

Otherwise it's up to us! You're right.


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## antaresia_boy (Nov 6, 2009)

the government has lost interest in them...


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## ryanharvey1993 (Nov 6, 2009)

heavy piece of timber works well.... I am all for killing cane toads, if I was in QLD I would be out as much as possible, we have rabbits here instead, nothing a compound bow cant fix....


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## The Reptile Outlet (Nov 7, 2009)

I found it very interesting that a few weeks ago when we were getting organised for our festival and needed cane toads for the Cane Toad Races that we had to really search to find enough for the races. We actually had to call out the 'helpers' to go searching. Now here we are 3 weeks later and last night I was out visiting some people who live on acreage and as I turned onto the dirt road leading to their place, I counted 25 just on the road before their gate. A distance of about 400 metres. That was only on the dirt road too, not counting what was off to the sides. Amazing what has happened with warmer weather and some rain.

cheers
Joy


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## licky (Nov 7, 2009)

the ants LOVE THEM.
so kill them and leave them on an ants nest, 2 days MAX and there definately gone


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## JasonL (Nov 7, 2009)

Actually, most species of frogs do well with the toads, as the toads wipe out frog predators. Things like toads change the whole eco-system and have effects right down the chain, some animals benefit and some don't, it's a complex thing to work out as many things work in weird ways....


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## jaliceeee (Nov 10, 2009)

A really great idea, since the frogs are obviously in your area, would be to try and get your street together and all go toad hunting. Do this for a few nights and the whole neighbourhood will have so many less toads. But please dont hit them with gold clubs, freezing them is humane.


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## Jungles (Nov 10, 2009)

slim6y said:


> You all just love winding me up right?
> 
> Do not use your cruel methods - a 9 iron or detol or any sporting equipment, acids, liquids etc... are all cruel and is tantamount to animal cruelty - it puts you in the same bracket as those who torture snakes.
> 
> ...


 
Beleive me, A 3 wood is quick and easy...


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## BROWNS (Nov 10, 2009)

I went for a quick drive the other night after some rain and some spots you couldn't avoid running one over,they were all over the road and squashed after a few laps but would barely put a dent in the population numbers and I'd have run over at least 50-100 I wasn't counting but next drive I'll take pics to show how much they thrive in massive numbers!!

I really,really hate toads!!


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## killerb (Nov 10, 2009)

JasonL said:


> Actually, most species of frogs do well with the toads, as the toads wipe out frog predators. Things like toads change the whole eco-system and have effects right down the chain, some animals benefit and some don't, it's a complex thing to work out as many things work in weird ways....


?I thought they eat most frogs if they fit in their mouth


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## BROWNS (Nov 10, 2009)

They certainly do eat frogs.

Frogs are a big part of gtp's food source in thw wild I wonder if toads are already up that way lets hope not it could be devastating potentially!!


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## discomat (Nov 13, 2009)

i have heard about the dettol thing before. also when our shed got broken into the police sprayed one with mace ouch!
pretty sure they eat anything smaller than themselves. plus they compete for food. I have many GTF and bullet frogs (is that what they are called) etc and wanna keep it that way so I will keep fighting the good fight. the 9 iron works well too.


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## Kris (Nov 13, 2009)

I lick one to death right before I start posting on here. It's better that way. And they seem to enjoy it for the first 30minutes.


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## slim6y (Nov 13, 2009)

Well, if it's proof you want - then go do the research.

I've been counting frogs recently - numbers are up in my area not down... in fact so much so they use my toilet to shelter in.

I've got more frogs (GTFs) than ever before.

I've got less mosquitoes and less cockroaches - I think it would be fair to say that toads aren't damaging populations at all. In the past few years I've been at this house I've seen plenty of reptilian wildlife - and it doesn't seem to dwindle with large numbers of toads either.

I just love the idea that if they were that bad then why aren't they listed noxious?

Why is it you could legally keep one as a pet - including an American Cockroach too!

I'm not defending toads, I'm just trying to let the animal cruelty people realise that you're only killing an ugly animal, not a noxious pest.

Plus, if you're leaving them to die or they get eaten by a kookaburra after you smack em with a club - then you're beginning to lower the population of native species.

Kill em, clean em up, remove them and wrap in plastic so they degrade before the plastic - don't leave toads out to kill our wildlife even when they're dead....


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## JoshMVG (Nov 13, 2009)

Maybe the fact that u have so many frogs is that the toads are wiping out their natural predators
And toads compete with native frogs for food 
Just because you have frogs at ur house DOES NOT mean that they aren't harming wildlife elsewhere
I did not mind them until i saw a dead red belly with a toad in its mouth
Now i kill them on sight using a bludgeoning method
They are not classed as noxious because the Queensland government is full of drunk rednecks that could not pass a useful law if their life depended on it


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## cris (Nov 13, 2009)

slim6y said:


> Well, if it's proof you want - then go do the research.
> 
> I've been counting frogs recently - numbers are up in my area not down... in fact so much so they use my toilet to shelter in.
> 
> ...



Legal issues about being a declared pest are not relvant to the impact they have, its more to do with economics. In an area where toads have been for a long time the local wildlife adapts, this doesnt mean they arnt an issue or dont cause damage.


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## cris (Nov 13, 2009)

JoshMVG said:


> They are not classed as noxious because the Queensland government is full of drunk rednecks that could not pass a useful law if their life depended on it



:lol: im not sure if anna bligh is a drunk redneck, but probably more useless. State government in Qld = fail, no exceptions.


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## naledge (Nov 13, 2009)

The wildlife has pretty much adapted to the toads, so completely eradicating the toads now, with a toxin or something, would probably do more harm than good. They are a part of our ecosystem now.


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## slim6y (Nov 14, 2009)

JoshMVG said:


> Maybe the fact that u have so many frogs is that the toads are wiping out their natural predators
> And toads compete with native frogs for food
> Just because you have frogs at ur house DOES NOT mean that they aren't harming wildlife elsewhere
> I did not mind them until i saw a dead red belly with a toad in its mouth
> ...



Hey Josh,

Toads don't appear to be wiping out the natural predators - We've recently seen RBBs and BTS in the area - none of which appear interested in toads. 

Toads most likely do not compete with native frogs for food - most of our native frogs have a much larger area of selection being they can climb. However, our climbing frogs are surely out competed by AHGs more than toads - have you watched an AHG vs a frog - they're way quicker! And there's very little controlling AHGs.

The ground frogs and toads compete quite happily - I think there's more than enough food for all. 

My point, Josh, is that the toads do compete but in reality they're mere;y a pest, not a noxious pest. They don't actually do that much damage now that our natives are learning to avoid them. I've recently read huntsmans are attacking toads... So it's possible a natural predator is occurring.

RBBs, BHPs, Scrubbies etc... they all succumb to the toads - but far less than they succumb to cars or human movement in their territory - I doubt toads are denting their populations at all.

They're not classed noxious because they're NOT noxious - I doubt the drinking abilities and right wing political views of the government are the questionable tactics here. I think it's the 1000s of hours of genuine independant research that says - Toads are here to stay, so Australia (and native species and introduced species) get used to it!


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## JasonL (Nov 14, 2009)

slim6y said:


> Toads are here to stay, so Australia (and native species and introduced species) get used to it!



Thats right, people are stupid if they think removing / killing a few will make a long term difference, they arn't going to be eradicated by any means other than some super disease that only effects them and no other frog.... just like how the Myxoma and Calici Virus's made rabbits extinct in Australia.


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## garycahill (Nov 14, 2009)

Such as the virus that's currently being trialled in Geelong.
If it's successful, their time is limited.


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## JasonL (Nov 14, 2009)

garycahill said:


> Such as the virus that's currently being trialled in Geelong.
> If it's successful, their time is limited.



Just like the rabbits?


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## garycahill (Nov 14, 2009)

Maybe do a little research into it yourself.
The viris only attacks the different life stage that a toad has & a frog doesn't.
Extensive tests have already occured over a wide range of native species.
The trials are expected to run a further 5 years. 
Some have learn't by previous mistakes.


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## JasonL (Nov 14, 2009)

Nah, sorry to be a disbeliever, but this will just be the same old thing as the rest, I doubt it will ever be put to use for one reason or another, and if it is, the toads will adapt just like the rabbits did, and at best it will temporarily make a dent in their population in some areas before they make a comeback.... Sorry to be such a cynic, but I can't see nature being beaten by us in this case... I truly hope I am wrong.


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## JasonL (Nov 14, 2009)

Here it is if anyone is interested
http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p7rh.pdf


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## slim6y (Nov 14, 2009)

You're correct Jason (of course)... 

Just like mixo with rabbits - it's funny how I still see rabbits around - isn't it?

Well - don't let common sense get in the way of a good story aye Jason 

When you coming up here - we can toad hunt if you like


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## JoshMVG (Nov 14, 2009)

slim6y
Not all frogs are arboreal
So ground dwelling frogs are in fact being effected by toads (this has been backed by extensive research)
Cane Toads
Having said that, this link does say that alot of the research in toad impact on the majority of fauna has been inconclusive.


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## JasonL (Nov 14, 2009)

slim6y said:


> You're correct Jason (of course)...
> 
> Just like mixo with rabbits - it's funny how I still see rabbits around - isn't it?
> 
> ...



actually my good wife was trying to encourage me to go back up again soon... so maybe next year some time...
we can go looking for all those rare native frogs that the toads have wiped out.


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## slim6y (Nov 15, 2009)

JoshMVG said:


> slim6y
> Not all frogs are arboreal
> So ground dwelling frogs are in fact being effected by toads (this has been backed by extensive research)
> Cane Toads
> Having said that, this link does say that alot of the research in toad impact on the majority of fauna has been inconclusive.



I did mention our terrestrial frogs too - they do make up a fair population I agree. 

Thanks for the link... but the opening line doesn't really bring confidence to me at all.

Jason - You know you'll always be welcome here


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## JoshMVG (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't get it,
If you are referring to the web site then the info i was referring to was the study info, not the toad busters mission statement


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## ryanharvey1993 (Nov 15, 2009)

dont know if I have posted my hate in this thread yet :lol: so here I go

"only good toad is a dead toad.... thats disposed of correctly."

also can someone give me more info on this cane toad virus? and do they have a virus for cats yet? if so, how do I make it? I want some of that mixo virus for my backyard to control the bloody rabbits!

why cant a disease pop up in toads, cats, foxes and rabbits like the disease that popped up in tassie devils...


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## naledge (Nov 15, 2009)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> dont know if I have posted my hate in this thread yet :lol: so here I go
> 
> "only good toad is a dead toad.... thats disposed of correctly."
> 
> ...



They've made a toxin for cats, I think they're trying to get permission to trial it on Kangaroo Island.


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## Oedura (Nov 15, 2009)

http://www.frogwatch.org.au/images/fullimage/canetoaddeathadder.jpg
Cane toads don't impact native wildlife eh


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## ryanharvey1993 (Nov 15, 2009)

Oedura said:


> http://www.frogwatch.org.au/images/fullimage/canetoaddeathadder.jpg
> Cane toads don't impact native wildlife eh


 
what a shame, kill em all I say. also, the disease they wanna test on kangaroo island for the cats, why dont they just test it on the mainland, I hope it kills them all, would be great hearing on the news " a virus is killing all cats, any cat that is not inside is at risk of being killed by it " would be great, every irresponsible cat owner looses there cat to disease, all wild cats die, any cat locked up is fine. everyones happy!


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## Radar (Nov 15, 2009)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> heavy piece of timber works well.... I am all for killing cane toads, if I was in QLD I would be out as much as possible, we have rabbits here instead, nothing a compound bow cant fix....



Actually my choice for toads, using judo heads....Quick, humane (heads are designed to kill small game like cats and rabbits through the shock of impact), safe (judo's don't travel like other heads), you have to pull the toad off the arrow, meaning you have no excuse not to drop it in a garbage bag (gets them out of the environment), and best of all, gets you some target practice....


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## cris (Nov 15, 2009)

rednut said:


> Actually my choice for toads, using judo heads....Quick, humane (heads are designed to kill small game like cats and rabbits through the shock of impact), safe (judo's don't travel like other heads), you have to pull the toad off the arrow, meaning you have no excuse not to drop it in a garbage bag (gets them out of the environment), and best of all, gets you some target practice....



Do you have any problems with arrows breaking? I have thought of using a bow but thought i would just end up smashing or bending arrows with every shot :?


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## ryanharvey1993 (Nov 15, 2009)

cris said:


> Do you have any problems with arrows breaking? I have thought of using a bow but thought i would just end up smashing or bending arrows with every shot :?


 
guns would be so much easier, if you can get them get them IMO, arrows bend always, which makes them inhumane, I shot a bent one at a rabbit yesterdau, but because it was bent it went off course, it still hit the rabbit, severing its ear in two, it was not my fault so dont flame me, and I dont really care cause the rabbit is dead now anyway. I ended up having to manually get it, after it ran into a pipe. so make sure you have straight arrows before shooting.


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## slim6y (Nov 16, 2009)

Oedura said:


> http://www.frogwatch.org.au/images/fullimage/canetoaddeathadder.jpg
> Cane toads don't impact native wildlife eh



Speak to Jason on this one....

Please - let's be honest here 1) It's a bias frog site playing on heart strings... 2) it's one snake - and eventually the ones that avoid the toads are the ones that deserve to live - there's a happy equilibrium here where introduced pests and native species all live happily in one big melting pot.

I'm surprised people on this site still drive...

Cars well out do toads I am sure.

Humans - ironically kill more as well and they introduced the toads.

Toads will not wipe out an entire species of snake, frogs, cockroaches or anything - but yeah, they'll cause damage - as any chemical poison in the environment will. But I think there's a settling period which is coming to an end now - after 80 years of toads in Australia the native species are now coming aware and are learning intriguing methods to avoid or kill without being poisoned. 

And - most of our frog species (and reptiles in general) will survive! The ones that don't - I doubt will be determined by the toad.

Crocs for eg - are doing better now than ever - and toads are killing them off left right and centre. Take the human equation out - and look what happens - species do well!


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## JasonL (Nov 16, 2009)

Oedura said:


> http://www.frogwatch.org.au/images/fullimage/canetoaddeathadder.jpg
> Cane toads don't impact native wildlife eh



Of course they do, like that death adder impacted on the things it ate, including the toad it tried to.... Toads have had major impacts on high end predators, truley massive impacts on things like carnivorous mammals, large monitors and Elapids that consume large amounts of frogs... but..

To date they have not made any animal extinct.... and

Killing them in the front yard / on the road does nothing to their population..

In a population of large predators, you may get the overall population drop by about 80% initially when the toads appear, but over the next ten - twenty years that population of predators will bounce back to varying degrees as the animals learn either how to eat them (as in the case with some birds) or not to eat them, but they never come back to the numbers "pre toad". Toads have been around north Qld now for around 70 years, what damage they were going to do to the area has been done.


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## Oedura (Nov 16, 2009)

How can a snake learn not to eat one, if it does it will die
Are you saying it is an inherited instinct form their poisoned ancestors?


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## JasonL (Nov 16, 2009)

Nature has a funny way of working those things out.... though I would guess a percentage of the stronger animals have a close call and learn from it... some animals do have better learning capabilities than others, some birds have even worked out what part of the toad they can eat and what part they can't.


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## grimbeny (Nov 16, 2009)

For those who are interested in real facts about the ecological impacts of cane toads, here is a summary of the work completed in Rick Shine's lab on the topic. There are instructions for viewing the papers yourself but easy to read summaries are provided. cane toad research


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## seanjbkorbett (Nov 16, 2009)

eat them!..  me and my pet asian eat them


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## Oedura (Nov 16, 2009)

very interesting,
Good to see some unbiased info
Thanks for that


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## slim6y (Nov 16, 2009)

"Although it is still too early for confident evaluation of ultimate impact, we have already learnt a great deal. For example, the toads themselves have changed during the invasion process: invasion front toads are longer-legged, more active and more mobile than their cousins back in long-established populations. Impacts of toad arrival on the native fauna have been less catastrophic than we had feared, except for the deaths of many varanid lizards (goannas), and some species of venomous snakes. Indeed, the impacts of toads seem likely to be less severe and long-lasting than most people have expected."

So does that confirm mine and Jason's non-professional appraisal of the situation?


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