# Morphs



## Antsnest (Aug 8, 2017)

hey guys I'm pretty new to reptile breeding and morphs. I've been researching them as best I can. I'm just wondering if there's anywhere where you can see all the morphs that have been made for carpet pythons and anteresia. 
I read online if you breed 2 jags together you can get a leusistic. I'm just trying to find more information on the morphs to try and get up to date on what's been happening.
Like is it alright to breed spotted with children's pythons and create new things like albino marbled?
There's actually a ball python morph calculator, wish Australia had more information there's hardly anything


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Aug 8, 2017)

Have a read of this thread.
Bit of different mindset to morphs/crossbreeding here.

https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum...n-subspecies-crosses-queensland.213191/page-2

Just to be clear i have no problems with morphs in the hobby but too many noobs think if they get a different sub species and cross it some magical morph will pop out and they will be famous and rolling in cash. All that leads to is alot of muddy snakes nobody wants. (the noob part wasnt direcred at you antsnest)

Fyi leucistic jags have a lethal gene they dont last a day. :/


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Aug 8, 2017)

Oh right sorry of the top of my head carpet morphs (in aus) that i know of.

Albino
Jag
Zebra
Silver pepper MD
granite
Caramel 
Stonewashed bredli
Hypo
Axanthic 

Then you have the mixes e.g caramel x albino = sunglow etc


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 8, 2017)

The word 'morph' doesn't tell the full story.
There are morphs that are brought about through selective breeding such as some colour/pattern variation and there are those that are genetic. 
Some of the responses you may receive when raising this topic may not be what you might imagine as the topic raises questionable behaviour in some cases including some gene's that have been illegally imported and others that include deformities, undesirable traits that make some of the offspring difficult to sell. 
The jag/jag combination you refer to that produces leucistics also comes with the added "lethal gene" which as it suggests leads to the animals very premature death if they even survive hatching.

If you want to breed morphs you need to do tons of research, accept that to many in the hobby you will be a leper and as mentioned above you will not be making your fortune.....rather you will more likely go poor feeding all the 'non desirable' siblings that you will produce while you 'experiment'.


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## Shikito123 (Dec 12, 2017)

Hi, im wondering about ocelot morphs in carpet pythons.. Ive tried to find some research for them and the only thing i can find is that when they are bred to a jag morph the ocelot is a dominant whereas the jag is co-dom. 
Does the ocelot morph have neurological problems like the jag morph??
cheers


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 12, 2017)

You can have Ocelots in an animal that is not 'contaminated' (Sorry guys but it just came out like that) by the jag gene.

Ocelot patterning is generally accepted as polygenic/polymorpic. (ie variations between animals that carry the same DNA but present with different colouring/markings)

Ocelots are normally line bred animals that are put together to accentuate the trait.


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## Bl69aze (Dec 12, 2017)

What is paradox gene, like what causes the black spots on an albino animal?


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Dec 12, 2017)

Taken from ballpythons.net @Bl69aze . as far as im aware there's at least 1 paradox CP in straya.

"Paradox is NOT a trait that breeds true, that's the first thing to understand about it. There are a number of theories on what a paradox is, but my favorite is this:

Chimerism occurs when two embryos fuse shortly after they begin to divide. The result is a patchwork or mosaic of two sets of DNA in a single embryo. Essentially, it is twins that have merged to become one animal. The result is an animal that appears to be put together from patches of two different animals. When one of the animals was an ivory, and the other was a yellowbelly, you get a paradox ivory.
How do you know it's not a piebald? Well, obviously, a piebald doesn't suddenly appear when you're breeding yellowbellies.






Usually, the reproductive organs in a chimera will be only from one twin or the other--so, until you breed it, you do not know whether the chimera is reproductively a yellowbelly, or an ivory. This is true of all chimeric paradoxes. 

Now, it's quite likely that chimerism is not the only explanation for paradoxes, and the above won't apply to snakes that are paradox due to other causes.

By general definition, a snake is a paradox if it shows signs that it's two things at once--that it has contradictory markings. For example, an ivory should be all white--for it to have a patch of brown is genetically impossible, hence it is a paradox. BEL snakes or albinos that have black streaks, are another example--their genetics should never allow them to have melanin. It means that something in the animal--but only in PART of the animal--isn't the same as the rest of it. It has, either due to chimerism, mutation, or other cause, more than one set of genes in its body. It has patches of genes that allow it to produce colors that the rest cannot.

This is distinctly different from a piebald, that is supposed to be patches of colors and white. Now, if you had a piebald that was patches of white and color, but part of it had perfect regular patterning...that would be a paradox, because the piebald gene should smear the patterning, and it if doesn't, that means the genes there aren't piebald genes."


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 12, 2017)

Paradox x Paradox pairing was done last year with Darwins and did not produce Paradox offspring


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## Bl69aze (Dec 12, 2017)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> Taken from ballpythons.net @Bl69aze . as far as im aware there's at least 1 paradox CP in straya.
> 
> "Paradox is NOT a trait that breeds true, that's the first thing to understand about it. There are a number of theories on what a paradox is, but my favorite is this:
> 
> ...





Pauls_Pythons said:


> Paradox x Paradox pairing was done last year with Darwins and did not produce Paradox offspring




*wipes the sweat off my brow*

This blows my mind and confuses me more than I thought about it I was hoping it was something like a DNA strand messing up during Development, but nope. 

Thanks you two!


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## Yellowtail (Dec 12, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Paradox x Paradox pairing was done last year with Darwins and did not produce Paradox offspring


I understand it was done well before last year with Darwins and it appears that some lines produce a percentage of Paradox albinos but not necessarily from Paradox x Paradox. I have one Paradox but so far no breeding success.


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## Bl69aze (Dec 12, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I understand it was done well before last year with Darwins and it appears that some lines produce a percentage of Paradox albinos but not necessarily from Paradox x Paradox. I have one Paradox but so far no breeding success.


Seems like a form of gambling with these percentages


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 12, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I understand it was done well before last year with Darwins and it appears that some lines produce a percentage of Paradox albinos but not necessarily from Paradox x Paradox. I have one Paradox but so far no breeding success.



Might have been the year before but all breeding seasons seem to blend into one at my age lol. (Was in QLD by a well known breeder)
There have since been pairings of Paradox x Paradox that have produced Paradox but only in small numbers as you suggest. Only something I have followed from the sidelines as an interested party so I wouldn't be a great source of information.


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## Shikito123 (Dec 12, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> You can have Ocelots in an animal that is not 'contaminated' (Sorry guys but it just came out like that) by the jag gene.
> 
> Ocelot patterning is generally accepted as polygenic/polymorpic. (ie variations between animals that carry the same DNA but present with different colouring/markings)
> 
> Ocelots are normally line bred animals that are put together to accentuate the trait.



so are the ocelot morph a "safe" morph? meaning the dont have any health conditions?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 12, 2017)

Shikito123 said:


> so are the ocelot morph a "safe" morph? meaning the dont have any health conditions?



The 'Traditional' ocelot that is produced from line breeding is IMO 'safe' as you say, as in its free from the Neuro problem suffered by jag's. (So long as there is no jag gene involved in the animal)


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## swampie (Dec 12, 2017)

Paradox x paradox Darwins has been done for years by a South Aussie breeder who keeps a low profile, he has produced a fair number of paradox offspring, last time I spoke to him he was up to 18, that was about 2-3 years ago.


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## Shikito123 (Dec 12, 2017)

@Pauls_Pythons 
okay thank you! Big help


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## Yellowtail (Dec 12, 2017)

swampie said:


> Paradox x paradox Darwins has been done for years by a South Aussie breeder who keeps a low profile, he has produced a fair number of paradox offspring, last time I spoke to him he was up to 18, that was about 2-3 years ago.


Yeah I'm aware of and was referring to him but not for me to reveal his number of successes as he does keep a very low profile but the percentages are low and you need to breed hundreds. He has also produced Ocelot patterns and Jag like dorsal stripes with pure Darwins.
I have some Darwin hets with Ocelot patterns and they are pure.
This one is very dark so it's hard to see.


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## richyboa72 (Dec 21, 2017)

The paradox gene looks pretty cool in some snakes but as stated does seem to prove out either recessive or co dominant, my friend brought a little paradox sunglow boa, which i picked up from a reptile show for him, it was cool but almost looked moldy, lol even his eyes and tongue was speckled






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