# exotics



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

man i cant wait till we are allowed to keep exotics here, was just checking some american reptile sites and there is so many cool critters, don't get me wrong i love the reptile available in australia and we defiantly have some of the coolest, but its just cool to get a new toy to play with, JMO, when do you all think this will be?


----------



## zacthefrog (Oct 17, 2011)

VERY, long from now............​


----------



## nico77 (Oct 17, 2011)

never


----------



## snakes123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Personally i think we should be allowed them. I love all the ball pythons, hog nose, tortes, gator, chameleon, etc.I really cant wait for the day, but i don't think it will be in out life time if ever. But i know this thread will start a brawl


----------



## junglepython2 (Oct 17, 2011)

Never


----------



## Trench (Oct 17, 2011)

Take cover!!! "dives behind couch" :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## zacthefrog (Oct 17, 2011)

retract my comment......Never


----------



## Trench (Oct 17, 2011)

But I would realy like too keep them if they did come here


----------



## nico77 (Oct 17, 2011)

snakes123 said:


> Personally i think we should be allowed them. I love all the ball pythons, hog nose, tortes, gator, chameleon, etc.I really cant wait for the day, but i don't think it will be in out life time if ever. But i know this thread will start a brawl



pop corn is in the microwave , should be a good night


----------



## souldoubt (Oct 17, 2011)

not gonna happen. You're going to have to move overseas if you want exotics


----------



## nico77 (Oct 17, 2011)

souldoubt said:


> not gonna happen. You're going to have to move overseas if you want exotics



or start a zoo


----------



## Kimberlyann (Oct 17, 2011)

I'd LOVE to own some exotic's as well, but to PUT IT NICELY (like some people might not be able to) i dont think they will ever let exotics in here as a private owner, just like new zealand isnt aloud to have any snakes at all because they would completely wipe out their eco system

Our best bet would be to move over there which i have seriously concidered


----------



## Trench (Oct 17, 2011)

nico77 said:


> or start a zoo



What about an under ground zoo :lol:


----------



## elogov (Oct 17, 2011)

I think it's best i keep my opinions to myself on this topic, we will see how long i can shut my mouth for though.


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

Wonder what happen with that lady from that thread a couple of weeks ago? the one where that lady had a sick diamond and she had a corn snake in NSW with an exotic license which she bought of a registered breeder legally?


----------



## reptilian1924 (Oct 17, 2011)

You will never ever be allowed to keep and breed exotic Reptiles here in Australia on a private licence, unless you have a private zoo licence or work in a zoo or wildlife park or at one of Australias top Museums, otherwise you will have to relocate overseas so why would you want a exotic Reptile, for when Australia as plenty of awesome native Reptiles that you can keep and breed on a private licence, and should be thankfull for IMO.


----------



## Jeffa (Oct 17, 2011)

If you are that keen on exotics than go play with your ninja turtles. Appreciate what we have and if you dont like it then "get out"


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

you never know they might one day let people have exotics for private keepers like fish and birds and dogs and cats and i love my german rottweiler and my african cichlids!!!


----------



## Colin (Oct 17, 2011)

grimjob said:


> man i cant wait till we are allowed to keep exotics here, was just checking some american reptile sites and there is so many cool critters, don't get me wrong i love the reptile available in australia and we defiantly have some of the coolest, but its just cool to get a new toy to play with, JMO, when do you all think this will be?



Ive heard 2875 but that may just be a rumour


----------



## dihsmaj (Oct 17, 2011)

Wel Personaly I No Dat Da GMent R Guna Let Us Hav Exotics Son So I Hav Sum Corn Snaks An Sum Boaz An Sum Exotic Pythons =))


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

haha thats wat im talkin about, bring on the exotics!!!


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

Meh, I play with exotics at work and can honestly say that other than a few of the tortoises(which I have a bit of a soft spot for) the exotics aren't that interesting. Corn snakes are about the most boring snakes out and other than being bigger, things like burmese pythons aren't that different to what we have available already.

Appreciate the wonderful animals we have here already because what we have are pretty good.




Oh and the lady a few weeks ago with the corn, it turned out to be a woma


----------



## snakeluvver (Oct 17, 2011)

Im not interested whatsoever with exotics. When I see some at a zoo I dont even look, Im more interested in the natives.
I hope we're never allowed them here, opens doors to too many bad possibilities.


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

just chucking the question out there not trying to start a fight and have people carry on like a kid, its all just talk not like im sitting here going im bring over all the exotic in the world so you better be happy, just talking. i love the reptiles here but you honestly cant say that like vipers or chameleons iguanas newts, that would b cool. i think the angry people just need to take it down a bit and enjoy a convo not an argument


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

Don't get me wrong we have the the best native animals, but you can alway have different animals and there are a lot of other cool animals that we can't get here just yet.


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

thats what im saying^^^ just wondering how america can import all of our reptiles and everything seems to work well there


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

I think if everyone was allowed exotics our eco system would be completely destroyed. Just like North America. They have these nasty bitey fish all through the rivers and boa constrictors and anacondas taking over the swamps because people bought some snakes thinking it was a cool idea and couldn't look after them. Being an exotic free (almost anyway) country should be something to be proud of in my opinion. Australia has some of the best reptiles and the coolest animals and I'd rather go without an exotic pet than see this beautiful country destroyed by ferals. As for other exotic animals that have been introduced. LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE! No more. If anything round the ferals up and get them out of here. Tell you what would be cool though. Being able to own other Australian animals. Maybe even get the Emerald monitor onto the species lists. 
Maybe I could have a pet wallaby...


----------



## lgotje (Oct 17, 2011)

I love all reptiles


----------



## hrafna (Oct 17, 2011)

never. Seriously the majority of morphs are butt ugly. It seems in the states and elsewhere it is more of a ' lool what i have that you don't ' than an actual love for the colours and patterns.


----------



## Fang101 (Oct 17, 2011)

I hope they never make it legal to keep a exotic. We should appreciate the very unique snakes Australia has.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Our country is one of only few places left in the world that doesn't have a destroyed eco system. Please protect it.


----------



## cypptrkk90 (Oct 17, 2011)

if they arent released into the wild and destroy our wonderful eco system, then im all for it. 

At the end of the day i love herps doesnt matter where they are from.


----------



## longqi (Oct 17, 2011)

cypptrkk90 said:


> if they arent released into the wild and destroy our wonderful eco system, then im all for it.
> 
> At the end of the day i love herps doesnt matter where they are from.



^^^^^
That will never happen
We know that because as far as I know no-one has ever lost a snake in Australia??


----------



## Jeffa (Oct 17, 2011)

Alright mo devil how about we get all these exotics in the country (other than the lot we have) When some enviromental disater like the brown tree snake in Guam or the Burmese, is it Burmese in the everglades that is causing the crap? Actually how about we import cane toads? Whoops, been done and you know what they actually introduced this for a supposed better reason. 
Lets bring in red eared sliders, becaues they have not caused any probs.
How about finishing school and getting your crap together before posting it?
Bring it!


----------



## dihsmaj (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany said:


> Maybe I could have a pet wallaby...


Move to Vic, we have mammals.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah I don't think anyone has ever set a pet "free" in Australia ever. :/ 
No one disposes of unwanted items in a way that is harmful to the environment either.


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

yeh i totally agree, i dont want the eco system destroyed either just thought it would b cool to try some new stuff, i know we have the coolest and all the blah blah, but something new is always fun


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> Move to Vic, we have mammals.


I plan to once I finish my degree. Then I can get crocs!


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

yeh mammals are cool, like a sugar glider would b sweet


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

I bet who ever decided to introduce the cane toad hates themselves. That or they're rolling in their graves.

Come to think of it, I cannot think of anything that has been introduced that hasn't destroyed some part of the eco system. Even when dingos were introduced they killed off all the tasmanian tigers.


----------



## Eddie2257 (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany said:


> Yeah I don't think anyone has ever set a pet "free" in Australia ever. :/
> No one disposes of unwanted items in a way that is harmful to the environment either.


not to be rude Rhomany but not everyone thinks like that? some idiot with a pair of corns might not know about the eco system and how fragile it is and let the animals go? how can you say a "pet" has never been set free? you dont know that and there are some STUPID people in this word.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Well almost did anyway, then the white man came along and did the rest.


----------



## nurse_boy (Oct 17, 2011)

In the interests of having a cool calm and collected adult conversation about this, and if they were legalised, I don't see myself running out and getting any in the near future. 

I just wanted to add the opinion that maybe if exotics are legalised and then regulated as our current system is, i.e. licensing and reporting each year, wouldn't it stop the black market animals or at least minimise them. This would take the whole point out of people smuggling them into Australia. We all know that there are already wild populations of exotics in Australia, so maybe instead of fighting it, lets let them in legally and regulate and license them, mandatory reporting like we do already with the licensing system etc. This is just my opinion and I am not after a fight, just a question/suggestion that I thought would be worth putting to everybody and seeing what people think!!


----------



## cypptrkk90 (Oct 17, 2011)

longqi said:


> ^^^^^
> That will never happen
> We know that because as far as I know no-one has ever lost a snake in Australia??



qouted for truth. now that i think about it as much as id like an exotic, i would hate to see Australia's ecosytem ruined.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Eddie I was being sarcastic.


----------



## snakes123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Jeffa said:


> How about finishing school and getting your crap together before posting it?
> Bring it!



So your saying that us kids cant have a say because we haven't finished school? What we are to young to realist the consequences of what will happen when they escape the enclosure and end up in the wild? I hate how some adults on here think just because we are young (under 18's) we have absolutely no clue about these kind of things. Look at all these guys on here that know a heck lot more than many adults on here, using snakeluvver as an example. He knows more that i ever will and he is 12 i think. So don't judge us just on our age. ok cool im done


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

meh, all im sayin if it WAS legal i would probably own an exotic like many others.


----------



## Eddie2257 (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany said:


> Eddie I was being sarcastic.


baahaha i thaught you were dead set


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

i think she was being sarcastic, well ive heard about a population of marina iguana in some part of australia that got introduced and they are doing great and the fauna and stuff is fine, but i only heard something dont know how true it is, i was just putting this question out there, thinking how cool it would be if everything worked out sweet like with the eco and stuff would be cool


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

I just couldn't stand the thought of people letting go of the animals or losing them and it stuffing up everything. I think if they were to ever be legal, they shouldn't be sold in pet stores. There should be some sort of advanced license class for them and there should be closer checks on them. I bet the goverment would make an exotic keepers license really expensive aswell so that it stops people that aren't truely commited from buying them,

I thought you said marijuana iguana for a second. Hahaha


----------



## longqi (Oct 17, 2011)

You can buy Corn snakes in Auburn Sydney cheaper than you can buy a carpet python
Ball Pythons from Melbourne for $120 each
Red Tail Boas from Mackay at $200 each

They are here and here to stay but there is no money in smuggling them in any more so possibly having an amnesty might be a good idea
But with the amnesty should be a proviso that prohibits breeding


----------



## cypptrkk90 (Oct 17, 2011)

Jeffa said:


> Alright mo devil how about we get all these exotics in the country (other than the lot we have) When some enviromental disater like the brown tree snake in Guam or the Burmese, is it Burmese in the everglades that is causing the crap? Actually how about we import cane toads? Whoops, been done and you know what they actually introduced this for a supposed better reason.
> Lets bring in red eared sliders, becaues they have not caused any probs.
> How about finishing school and getting your crap together before posting it?
> Bring it!



do you want to relax maybe and be respectful? these are children you are talking too!


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah that's a good idea about the breeding Longqi!


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

Plus I can honestly say that as someone who teaches ecology to school kids LOTS of them know more about the environment and the impacts we are having on it than most of the adults I know. School kids now are very switched on to things like this and it forms an important aspect of most school curriculums too.


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

it would b sweet if it all worked out, like i would love to go and watch a group of iguanas playing in the grass, or seeing chameleons cruising through a tree, some sweet eyelash vipers prey on some mouse, would b sweet if it all worked out but i know it wont, see its not hard for us all to have a civilised convo and just talk about a matter instead of fight, i like it, ok so what would you like to see in the wild (exotic wise) if it was all good and didnt stuff the eco system??


----------



## Jeffa (Oct 17, 2011)

cypptrkk90 said:


> do you want to relax maybe and be respectful? these are children you are talking too!



And when I was a child I got worse than the good old lecture from the computer.

Are the child by age or child by nature? sorry i have looked.


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

relax Jeffa its just a conversation!


----------



## Mayo (Oct 17, 2011)

History has taught us time and again that introducing different species to a new environment is always bad. Just take a look at our history. The US is fast trying to back peddle but will never repair the damage that has been done in there own country, so why risk it here?


----------



## cypptrkk90 (Oct 17, 2011)

Jeffa said:


> And when I was a child I got worse than the good old lecture from the computer.
> 
> Are the child by age or child by nature? sorry i have looked.



firstly i dont think you're in any position to lecture anyones child over their opinions in a herpetology discussion. 

secondly as mo-deville said, its just a conversation.


----------



## Jeffa (Oct 17, 2011)

mo-deville said:


> relax Jeffa its just a conversation!



Cool, you are right and well said, go the natives and thats me.


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 17, 2011)

cool.


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

yeh so true i would hate for all our beautiful eco to get destroyed, would just be sweet to have some cool exotics, but its so not worth it, GO AUSTRALIA, keep it pure,


----------



## Tassie97 (Oct 17, 2011)

Well all you mainlanders....
Think of how luck you are in tasmania-yes tasmania the island down the bottom
We are only allowed to keep reptiles from tasmania...
We have no pythons no monitors no colubrids no geckos no turtles etc etc

We only have venonomous snakes so if ya want a snake in tassie its gotta be deadly 

So i think we all need to have a look around other places dont have it as good as you.


Im done yes im 14 too there are alot of minors in this forum that could give some of you adults a run for your money please dont undermind us



Cheers have a nice night


----------



## grimjob (Oct 17, 2011)

hahaha poor tassie always left out hahaha


----------



## snakes123 (Oct 17, 2011)

^^ true before I would rally for exotics we should at least rally for Tasmanians to be allowed to keep their own species.


----------



## pillpy (Oct 17, 2011)

I would love a ball python or corn snake. Want one so bad as soon as they come here to Sydney


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

Why do you want a corn snake pillby? Just curious as my experience with them has been that they have zero personality.


----------



## saximus (Oct 17, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Why do you want a corn snake pillby? Just curious as my experience with them has been that they have zero personality.



I held a snow corn the other day for the first time and I gotta say if I wasn't so paranoid about my licence I'd want one. It was gorgeous and I would think personality is an individual thing like our snakes


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

I do agree that they come in pretty colours, we have three at work though and they all seem a bit low on the personality scale :lol: Maybe the one you met was better...


----------



## Danish (Oct 17, 2011)

one thing i have learnt in life is never say never,stranger things have happened!
There was an artical in the daily telegraph a few weeks back someone has put
a proposal to goverment to import and introduce the siver fox as pets.


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah but Danish that person is an idiot. The government themselves responded by saying something along the lines that they can't stop him from putting the application in(doesn't mean they will take it seriously though).


----------



## Danish (Oct 17, 2011)

True,but just an example.


----------



## hypochondroac (Oct 17, 2011)

People are so damned greedy.


----------



## nico77 (Oct 17, 2011)

pillpy said:


> I would love a ball python or corn snake. Want one so bad as soon as they come here to Sydney



they are there already , just not legally .


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm so glad I don't live in Tasmania.


----------



## nathancl (Oct 17, 2011)

Jeffa your a toolbag.


----------



## Bandit05 (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany said:


> I bet who ever decided to introduce the cane toad hates themselves. That or they're rolling in their graves.
> 
> Come to think of it, I cannot think of anything that has been introduced that hasn't destroyed some part of the eco system. Even when dingos were introduced they killed off all the tasmanian tigers.



I saw plenty of old pics with carcasses of Tasmanian Tigers strung up but must have missed seeing the dingoes holding their guns..PLEASE..Can we think before we type


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

If you read below that I typed a bit more. I've researched the tasmanian tigers and they were almost (I still have hope..) killed off in the mainland and uncommon in tasmania before european settlement. Most likely cause was the dingo. Maybe you should actually look it up before you accuse me of being wrong. 

"Tasmanian tigers lived only on the island of Tasmania in recent history, but fossil record shows that it was also found in New Guinea and Australia as recently as 3000 years ago. Competition with dogs brought by aborigines eliminated it in Australia and New Guinea. These dogs ran wild, becoming the dingo, which entirely filled its niche. A large population survived on Tasmania, where there are no dingoes."

Most information on the species will state this.


----------



## Eddie2257 (Oct 17, 2011)

the introduction of exotic species to Australia just wont happen, the goverment has to many examples of this going bad in other places around the world, look at the everglades in Florida? its not just the 15ft burms eating all the native wildlife, they have African rock pythons, green iguanas, nile monitors, cane toads, just to name a few, there are over 200 sepcies in that area alone that shouldent be there and that were introduced by people, and they are fighting a loosing battle. the Glades will never be the same, i dont want my kids growing up finding corn snakes and boas in out native bush lands ( if there is any bush left ) i want them finding natives. anyway thats my two cents,
Eddie..


----------



## Bandit05 (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany said:


> If you read below that I typed a bit more. I've researched the tasmanian tigers and they were almost (I still have hope..) killed off in the mainland and uncommon in tasmania before european settlement. Most likely cause was the dingo. Maybe you should actually look it up before you accuse me of being wrong.
> 
> "Tasmanian tigers lived only on the island of Tasmania in recent history, but fossil record shows that it was also found in New Guinea and Australia as recently as 3000 years ago. Competition with dogs brought by aborigines eliminated it in Australia and New Guinea. These dogs ran wild, becoming the dingo, which entirely filled its niche. A large population survived on Tasmania, where there are no dingoes."
> 
> Most information on the species will state this.



So since it was the fault of the Dingoes that we have no Tasmanian Tigers left did the Dingoes swim to Tassie or did we ship them to the mainland and since they were extinct before European settlement how come they were listed as protected in 1936 ????????
Oh and where did all the pics of them come from


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't even understand where you're coming from.. :/
To save you trying to find the post I wrote two comments below the one you quoted. I'll paste it here.
"Come to think of it, I cannot think of anything that has been introduced that hasn't destroyed some part of the eco system. Even when dingos were introduced they killed off all the tasmanian tigers."
*A few comments below*
"Well almost did anyway, then the white man came along and did the rest."
No need to get so defensive about a topic when you didn't read the whole conversation.

And.. there are no dingos in Tasmania. Hence why the tasmanian tiger survived there for a longer period of time before european settlement came along and completely killed them off.


----------



## Carnelian (Oct 17, 2011)

Bandit05 said:


> So since it was the fault of the Dingoes that we have no Tasmanian Tigers left did the Dingoes swim to Tassie or did we ship them to the mainland and since they were extinct before European settlement how come they were listed as protected in 1936 ????????
> Oh and where did all the pics of them come from



It is well known that Tasmanian Tigers inhabited both the mainland of Australia & Tasmania many yrs before Aboriginal & European settlement. Aboriginals brought Dingoes to mainland Australia which competed with Tassie Tigers, this is what wiped them out from MAINLAND Australia, Tassie Devils as well. When European settlers arrived both the Tigers & Devils were only found in Tassie where we successfully hunted the Tigers into extinction. 

If you go back & read Rhomany's post she is 100% correct.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

Back to exotics though.. 
..the cool ones would probablly be difficult to look after.
Alligator on the east coast of Australia sounds like a bit of a handful.


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhomany we are waiting on Alligators at work at the moment, just got the container delivered that will be converted for some youngsters, might be an interesting one to try and keep in your backyard though :lol:


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 17, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Rhomany we are waiting on Alligators at work at the moment, just got the container delivered that will be converted for some youngsters, might be an interesting one to try and keep in your backyard though :lol:


OMGGGGGG I'M SOO SOOO JEALOUS! Lucky you! 
I definately have to get a job at a museum or a zoo someday so I can spend time with some!


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 17, 2011)

I'll post on here when they arrive, then you can come for a drive down south and drool over them


----------



## Morelia4life (Oct 17, 2011)

I thought I would give my .02cents. First of all, for the people talking about the U.S. please know what you are talking about before you type a sentence. Yes, the Everglades has Burmese pythons and African Rock Pythons but it isn't the numbers that the media is spreading around. The media says that there is 100,000's of thousands of Burmese Pythons every where but yet it takes hours and hours for anyone to find one. Besides, every winter when Florida gets in the low 40's or even in the 30's, guess what, non native snakes will die. A snake from South Asia can't survive in 40 degree temperatures and remain healthy. 

Scientist now say that Florida is the number one spot in the world for non native species. Do you know why?? It is simple. It all has to do with Climate. For most of the year, Florida has a very semi tropical climate where numerous reptile species flourish with no problem until winter...then anything not native to Florida will die from the cold. 

Also, to all those people that want a Ball python or a Corn snake, trust me.. both snakes are a joke. Ball Pythons are small, they have no personality, they can be very picky eaters and they are pretty shy most of the time. A carpet python is 200% way better then a Ball python could ever be. But for those of you that want exotics, be sure that you
are ready for the habitat destruction that will come with evasive species. If a Ball python escapes and finds a carpet python or a woma, they will mate. They do it over here in the U.S. All over the U.S. we have exotics destroying everything. We have Snake head fish destroying lakes and ponds. We have the Burmese pythons eating Alligators and other native animals. We have Carp destroying lakes and ponds. We have Cuban Tree Frogs eating smaller native frogs. We have all kind of B.S. destroying everything.... protect what you have while you have it.


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 18, 2011)

I watched a doco on snake head fish. Scared me heaps.


----------



## hurcorh (Oct 18, 2011)

never


----------



## Mo Deville (Oct 18, 2011)

The only exotic im thinking that i like is the zebra jungle i love my jungles, but thanks morelia4life for that info i would never push for exotics myself ever, but if it was already here.... we definitly are lucky to be australia with what we have already and im more than happy as we have the best and pure which you can't beat IMO.


----------



## Nighthawk (Oct 18, 2011)

nurse_boy said:


> In the interests of having a cool calm and collected adult conversation about this, and if they were legalised, I don't see myself running out and getting any in the near future.
> 
> I just wanted to add the opinion that maybe if exotics are legalised and then regulated as our current system is, i.e. licensing and reporting each year, wouldn't it stop the black market animals or at least minimise them. This would take the whole point out of people smuggling them into Australia. We all know that there are already wild populations of exotics in Australia, so maybe instead of fighting it, lets let them in legally and regulate and license them, mandatory reporting like we do already with the licensing system etc. This is just my opinion and I am not after a fight, just a question/suggestion that I thought would be worth putting to everybody and seeing what people think!!



It's a good idea in theory, but there's one fatal flaw. Everyone would have to keep to the licensing and regulation system. Look at how many of our own reptiles are bred and sold under the table without the knowledge of each state's respective licensing system; once population of exotics reaches a certain number there would be no real way of regulating the majority being bought, bred, sold, traded, lost etc. The more you legitimise something, the more loopholes there are for dodgy people to exploit.
It *may* take the point out of smuggling into the country, but since when have most criminals needed to have a point other than "I can make a few extra bucks here..." All it will really mean to people like that is that they'll have less of a chance of being reported on sight unless the snake is actually on their person while they're heading through customs.
It would be a good idea if everyone was honest enough to fill out the paperwork though.


----------



## DeadCricket (Oct 18, 2011)

Its not so much eco system destruction (that's what humans do) its more of a restructuring and its fairly normal in nature, just takes a lot longer. A new predator moves into town and starts eating everything and then in some little hole somewhere a little animal has an 'f' this sh' moment and learns to deal with the poison or evolves a way to eat the new predator or escape it. Eco systems are constantly fluctuating. Something as simple as weather pattern changes in an area can change up everything. Or a flood moves a fish to a new area.


----------



## Australis (Oct 18, 2011)

The last graph on global bio-diversity i recall seeing showed Australia possessing the highest diversity of reptile species in the world... and only a fraction of these are represented in private collections.... and you people want bloody ball pythons and corn snakes 

Worse still .. stunning (subjective) species like Pilbara rock monitor which are virtually unheard of in private collections in Australia are readily available overseas.

Canadian Coldblood - Varanus pilbarensis

You want whats available overseas? sure, so do i, namely our own endemic species :lol:


----------



## dihsmaj (Oct 18, 2011)

Australis said:


> The last graph on global bio-diversity i recall seeing showed Australia possessing the highest diversity of reptile species in the world... and only a fraction of these are represented in private collections.... and you people want bloody ball pythons and corn snakes
> 
> Worse still .. stunning (subjective) species like Pilbara rock monitor which are virtually unheard of in private collections in Australia are readily available overseas.
> 
> ...


Oh my god...
Canadian Coldblood has:
_*V. caudolineatus*_
_*V. glauerti*_
_*V. kingorum*_
_*V. pilbarensis*_


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 18, 2011)

The reason exotics won't be licensed under any system, even a sunset clause where you can't breed and can only keep the animal till it dies, is that ANYONE with an exotic species (except those very few remaining from the amnesty in the 1990s) will be breaking the law. It is easy to police that way. If there were exotics in private hands under any licensing system, the picture is far more muddy, and successful prosecutions more difficult and complex. A blanket ban makes it easy.

You might still say "well they're here now so why not legalise them..." but the truth is that the ban does limit the trade to a large extent, so it serves its purpose.

Jamie


----------



## Grogshla (Oct 18, 2011)

No need for exotics in Australia.
We are envied by other countries for our amazing reptiles!! Lets keep it this way!
Also our eco system is a fragile one so the possibility that exotics will get released or escape into the wild is a very bad thing.


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 18, 2011)

i could be tempted by chameleons and iguanas, but we already have the best snakes!! 

not gonna happen anyway, so i'll just keep enjoying what i have.


----------



## Trench (Oct 18, 2011)

I think we first need to get tasmania rights to keep species from the main land and us main landers species from tas 
Then get our native species that aren't in captivity here and get them into captivity here.
Then get our native species from overseas like zebra jungles, albino BHP, albino levis, and any other morphs that are found in our native animals and bring them over here (no cross breeds though!!!),
and then maybe look at some non harmful species of exotics like chameleons, I can not see a chameleon cross breeding with any of our native wildlife and since they only eat insects they will not be much of a threat unless they happen to eat an endangered insect and evan then it would be like a once in a life time incident, 

This is what I think Australia's plan of action should be, 

like this if you agree


----------



## crocdoc (Oct 18, 2011)

I typed out a long post last night but somehow it seems to have disappeared, so I'll do a condensed version here. 

Hybridising with natives has never been the concern with introducing exotics. Disease, predation and competition are. As far as deeming something 'harmless', I'm pretty sure cane toads were considered harmless when they were first introduced into Australia, too. There are always hidden surprises when you tamper with nature, so it's best not to.

I grew up overseas, with access to all of the exotics that many of the people in this thread lust after. What I find funniest about these discussions is that the most sought after exotics here are the very species considered 'bog ordinary' overseas. It all comes down to people wanting what they can't have because it seems 'rare'. If many of you moved overseas and were able to keep all of the ball pythons and corn snakes you wanted, in a few years you'd be dreaming of Australian reptiles that you can't get your hands on and would probably move back.

Australia has more species of reptile than any other country on Earth. There are enough species here to keep any one of us interested in the hobby for several lifetimes, but yet people still want something from somewhere else. My guess is that those people would never be satisfied, even if they could get ball pythons and corn snakes, because before long they'd be considered 'boring', too, and they'd want the next new thing from somewhere else.


----------



## Fang101 (Oct 18, 2011)

Well said crocdoc


----------



## Bushman (Oct 18, 2011)

Very well said CrocDoc. Your post is not only well-informed but is also insightful into the minds of those that want exotic species. I would have liked to have read your long post that disappeared. Thanks for taking the time to write and rewrite such valuable contributions to this topic.

To those of you that want mainland species imported into Tasmania, I suggest that you seriously re-think this. Any exotic introductions (yes, this includes mainland species) can damage the delicate and fragile ecosystems of Tasmania that have been essentially isolated for millions of years.


----------



## Fuscus (Oct 18, 2011)

Imagine a politician saying "Vote for me and I'll let the hairy bikers down the road keep enormous pythons and/or cobras". They wouldn't even get a majority on APS.


----------



## nurse_boy (Oct 18, 2011)

Very well said CrocDoc, and thanks Nighthawk for the reply to my thought before. I think Bushman brings up a good point here, that we shouldn't be importing mainland species into Tasmania, due to the fact that just because these species are 'Australian', doesn't meant that they are not exotic to that area, and I feel that this concept holds true for the whole of Australia as well, I mean if we REALLY want to be purists, shouldn't we be banning the movement of animals meant to live in the Pilbara region of Western Australia to suburban Melbourne, I mean at the end of the day, if that animal got out of captivity, it is an exotic TO THAT AREA, and due to the fact that Australia is such a HUGE country, there are many more examples, such as a Jungle python or a GTP being moved to an area that it would not normally live, therefor making it an exotic to that area, causing the possibility of that animal wiping out normal foods for natives to that area, or bringing in diseases that are from other areas into new areas, crossbreeding with animals it wouldn't have access to normally. So really the main point of my argument is that we already are guilty of transporting exotics, just "native exotics" (if that makes sense lol). 
I must admit though, I am guilty myself of this, I own Pilbarensis knobbies, and childrens pythons and live in rural Victoria lol. I also want to say that if I had the opportunity to access true exotics legally, I think the only thing I would want to access is the MANY varieties of Australian reptile that we are not keeping ourselves as Australians, (and possibly some of the most AMAZING colour morphs of our own animals (knob tails etc)).

Let me know what you guys think!!
Nurse_boy


----------



## Red-Ink (Oct 18, 2011)

nurse_boy said:


> Very well said CrocDoc, and thanks Nighthawk for the reply to my thought before. I think Bushman brings up a good point here, that we shouldn't be importing mainland species into Tasmania, due to the fact that just because these species are 'Australian', doesn't meant that they are not exotic to that area, and I feel that this concept holds true for the whole of Australia as well, I mean if we REALLY want to be purists, shouldn't we be banning the movement of animals meant to live in the Pilbara region of Western Australia to suburban Melbourne, I mean at the end of the day, if that animal got out of captivity, it is an exotic TO THAT AREA, and due to the fact that Australia is such a HUGE country, there are many more examples, such as a Jungle python or a GTP being moved to an area that it would not normally live, therefor making it an exotic to that area, causing the possibility of that animal wiping out normal foods for natives to that area, or bringing in diseases that are from other areas into new areas, crossbreeding with animals it wouldn't have access to normally. So really the main point of my argument is that we already are guilty of transporting exotics, just "native exotics" (if that makes sense lol).
> I must admit though, I am guilty myself of this, I own Pilbarensis knobbies, and childrens pythons and live in rural Victoria lol. I also want to say that if I had the opportunity to access true exotics legally, I think the only thing I would want to access is the MANY varieties of Australian reptile that we are not keeping ourselves as Australians, (and possibly some of the most AMAZING colour morphs of our own animals (knob tails etc)).
> 
> Let me know what you guys think!!
> Nurse_boy



The chances of most mainland species thriving in Tas if they got out or let out is very slim....
Same if you let the pilbs out in Melb or a jungle or a GTP. In that respect what possible impact could they have except of being food for rats or birds in summer and dead by winter.
If they are carrying pathogens they would die in your care before they get out.


----------



## D3pro (Oct 18, 2011)

Still going? Isn't saying "not in your lifetime" enough? Every point on this thread has been done before. Ether your for, or against it.
I too would love some exotics (mostly vipers and some boas) but the government wont allow it. Enjoy what you can get for now.


----------



## nurse_boy (Oct 18, 2011)

Fair enough RedInk, but wouldn't that also be true of other true exotics? just a question. Especially considering the amount of predators we have in this country, as well as considering the colour scheme of a corn snake in particular, wouldn't they just be picked off quite quickly.


----------



## DeadCricket (Oct 18, 2011)

I will agree that it would be great for some more of our native species to be available in private collections and I also agree that its a bit odd to consider a bearded dragon that was exported to europe is an exotic. Yes they should undergo the same disease testing as when other animals are imported but we should be able to have them


----------



## Rhomany (Oct 18, 2011)

Only exotic I think I'd be comfortable having in Australia is the emerald monitor. It might not even BE exotic though! They're sooooo pretty. I bet they're a handful to look after aswell.


----------



## Colin (Oct 19, 2011)

if exotics were legally available here how many people would want cute (little) colourful retics, burms and other large snakes? and when a large section of these people would probably be the ones that cant handle a feisty jungle python then once these animals grow its an accident waiting to happen.. the first death of a person especially a child would bring everyman and his dog out and the media would be calling for a total ban on all reptiles I think.. I dont want this to happen.

and once these cute little retics grow to a size the owners are terrified of them and cant handle them ( definitely need a few people in some cases) the tendency to let them go as seen in the usa would happen here.. 

Id love some exotics in theory but prefer the situation remain as it is now and keep them banned and not legally available. theres plenty of awesome aussie species to keep and we should think ourselves lucky to have them available.


----------



## dihsmaj (Oct 19, 2011)

The only 'exotics' (if you consider them that) that I want are our animals that aren't in our pet trade yet, but are in overseas collections.


----------



## Colin (Oct 19, 2011)

what does confuse me is that there seems to be a large section of newbies that always seem to be posting on with this subject (no offence to anyone) and why they dont get some experience keeping & breeding our australian species puzzles me.. they always seem to want what we cant have and less interested in what we do have and are able to keep.. maybe it might be a good idea (?) to do more research on our aussie species get some runs on the board keeping and breeding (successfully) our aussie reptiles and less time drooling on internet pics of what are not available  

no offence to anyone.. and just an observation..


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree with this Colin - there are still plenty of challenges facing keepers in this country, bureaucratic and technical, without having to look overseas... ...

Jamie


----------



## Retic (Oct 20, 2011)

I can't imagine a day when exotics will be legal, the authorities can hardly get their act together with the natives so the exotics will remain underground and will continue to be bred and traded in huge numbers but at least the Government won't have to worry about them as they are illegal . I do love it when people say "we shouldn't let exotics into Australia", unfortunately the horse has well and truly bolted there, it's a bit like saying we shouldn't allow drugs in. LOL.
It is a shame that we can't get to fully appreciate the incredible variety of reptiles found overseas, the amazing pythons, boas, iguanas, chameleons, monitors, colubrids, vipers, tortoises etc etc etc, Cornsnakes and Ball Pythons are just a tiny part of the hobby overseas. 
I love all reptiles regardless of where they originate but to me South America is reptile heaven but I can appreciate an animal from anywhere. I really don't understand why someone would go to a zoo and consciously ignore exotic species, that is so incredibly insular.


----------



## AUSHERP (Oct 23, 2011)

You only have to look at the state of Florida to see why exotics are not allowed in Australia, the general public is not responsible enough to be trusted with things that could be so dangerous to our eco systems.
Exotics are awesome and desirable but there is just enough idiots to ruin it for every one, as with everything ie; fireworks, bb guns, firearms, pitbulls the list goes on and on.


----------



## reptilian1924 (Oct 23, 2011)

AUSHERP said:


> You only have to look at the state of Florida to see why exotics are not allowed in Australia, the general public is not responsible enough to be trusted with things that could be so dangerous to our eco systems.
> Exotics are awesome and desirable but there is just enough idiots to ruin it for every one, as with everything ie; fireworks, bb guns, firearms, pitbulls the list goes on and on.



AUSHERP, l agree 100% with what you have stated here in your post in regards, that people just are not responsible enough or cannot be trusted with things, that could be so dangerous to Australia eco system well said.


----------



## Snake_Whisperer (Oct 23, 2011)

Colin said:


> if exotics were legally available here how many people would want cute (little) colourful retics, burms and other large snakes? and when a large section of these people would probably be the ones that cant handle a feisty jungle python then once these animals grow its an accident waiting to happen.. the first death of a person especially a child would bring everyman and his dog out and the media would be calling for a total ban on all reptiles I think.. I dont want this to happen.
> 
> and once these cute little retics grow to a size the owners are terrified of them and cant handle them ( definitely need a few people in some cases) the tendency to let them go as seen in the usa would happen here..
> 
> Id love some exotics in theory but prefer the situation remain as it is now and keep them banned and not legally available. theres plenty of awesome aussie species to keep and we should think ourselves lucky to have them available.



That's it in a nutshell Colin. I've seen it first hand back home. People walking into the local petshop, and instead of having a choice of stimmies or spotteds, folks can rock up off the street and select from stunning, noodle sized burms, retics, etc. No licence or experience required, just some "good" advice from the pimply faced kid behind the counter, and off you go. One fatality is all it would take and we would all be out of reptile keeping period I'd wager. Not to mention, burms, rocks, retics, etc... would all thrive across the top end. Case and point, the Everglades. The average joe would struggle with a yearling retic at 10+ kg, how's about year 2! These things would be getting released left right and centre. I recently heard of a boa being found cruising around on the Gold Coast. I mean c'mon! And don't get me started on vens! People would be lining up down the block for Gumbrechts, Eyelash vipers, cobras, etc. While I'm sure if push came to shove, the AVRU would work on antivenine for these animals if they were legal here, but in the interim, someone would probably end up dead.


----------



## Morgwynn (Oct 23, 2011)

There are already wild populations of corn snakes and red earred sliders doing damage. The last thing we need is more exotics. In a perfect world people would keep them responsibly in escape proof enclosures and never release them, but that won't happen.

I know there are exotics here already. The wildlife rescue I'm in had a dead boa turn up not long ago. The people keeping those animals should be ashamed of themselves for being so selfish. Our ecosystem is so much more precious and important than someone's ego.


----------



## Retic (Oct 23, 2011)

AUSHERP said:


> You only have to look at the state of Florida to see why exotics are not allowed in Australia, the general public is not responsible enough to be trusted with things that could be so dangerous to our eco systems.
> Exotics are awesome and desirable but there is just enough idiots to ruin it for every one, as with everything ie; fireworks, bb guns, firearms, pitbulls the list goes on and on.



I agree with you, it is the 5% who spoil it for the 95%. I love exotic reptiles, in fact all reptiles but fully understand that the chances of legal ownership are slim at best. I do feel that some form of licensing will at least go part way to keeping track of what's here rather than what we have at present. There are 10's of 1000's of exotics of every species imaginable being kept and bred illegally and god knows how many of those find their way into the wild.


----------



## Eddie2257 (Oct 23, 2011)

Morgwynn said:


> There are already wild populations of corn snakes and red earred sliders doing damage. The last thing we need is more exotics. In a perfect world people would keep them responsibly in escape proof enclosures and never release them, but that won't happen.
> 
> I know there are exotics here already. The wildlife rescue I'm in had a dead boa turn up not long ago. The people keeping those animals should be ashamed of themselves for being so selfish. Our ecosystem is so much more precious and important than someone's ego.


you wouldent happen to be with the ARC??


----------



## Morelia4life (Oct 23, 2011)

Ok... I have seen some post talking about Florida and blaming the people for the amount of exotics they have running around down there, but you guys forgot one important thing..... Hurricanes. Back in the 1990's, Florida had so many hurricanes come through there and wipe out almost everything in Miami. Are people part of the reason? Yes. Are people the only reason? No. Which one will do more damage to the ecosystem? 20 or 30 people letting go a Burmese python every now and then or 5 or more hurricanes a year coming through and wiping out zoos, parks, reptile centers and so on and then the snakes getting out??


----------



## Wookie (Oct 23, 2011)

It will happen eventually. I don't think the government cares too much so long as they can tax it :lol:


----------



## Inkage (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm no expert...it just seems to me any animal deemed invasive has been released in huge numbers.. cane toads, slider turtles, fox's, rabbits ect ect.... Would it not be the same scenario if a giant populous of bearded dragons were released into a range that does not naturally support them? Beardies seem a great suspect in a false scenario. Or is ok for natives to populate areas they do not naturally occur? Or irresponsible owners dumping clutches of ''junk'' carpets into the wild to later contaminate local blood lines?


----------



## longqi (Oct 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Ok... I have seen some post talking about Florida and blaming the people for the amount of exotics they have running around down there, but you guys forgot one important thing..... Hurricanes. Back in the 1990's, Florida had so many hurricanes come through there and wipe out almost everything in Miami. Are people part of the reason? Yes. Are people the only reason? No. Which one will do more damage to the ecosystem? 20 or 30 people letting go a Burmese python every now and then or 5 or more hurricanes a year coming through and wiping out zoos, parks, reptile centers and so on and then the snakes getting out??



But that wouldnt happen in Australia
We dont have hurricanes
Only cyclones
So the answer remains the same regardless of how they may escape
especially since a decent burmese will drop 100 eggs

Keep them out as much as possible

The only places retics and burmese would thrive in Aus are tropical rainforests and there is not that much big tucker available to them there apart from wild pigs so they would follow Floridas example and hit the mangrove areas

The worrying ones would be Kraits and Blue Corals as they inhabit a much wider range of climatic conditions
50% fatality rate from Kraits and possibly higher from Blue Corals


----------



## Morelia4life (Oct 23, 2011)

longqi said:


> But that wouldnt happen in Australia
> We dont have hurricanes
> Only cyclones
> So the answer remains the same regardless of how they may escape
> ...



Florida's climate is much like that of Southeast Asia. Also, Florida does have a lot of prey items for the Burmese pythons from Alligators to birds to wild deer to pigs. That is why they do pretty well in Florida. Like I said before though, every year in the winter more and more burms die. I don't know how well exotics from the U.S. would do in Australia in the wild. Take the corn snake for ex. Say a corn does manage to get loose in the wild, over there, you have so many predators from Native cats to dingos, other snakes such as Womas and Black-headed pythons to monitors. And what about the temperature difference from the United States to Australia? There are so many factors to take into consideration when talking about how exotics will do in a non native environment.


----------



## spyder6052 (Oct 23, 2011)

as much as i would love a burmese python, there is no way i would be willing to risk the rest of our native wildlife to have one..... i say no to allowing them to be legally owned (private collection)


----------



## jordanmulder (Oct 24, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Florida's climate is much like that of Southeast Asia. Also, Florida does have a lot of prey items for the Burmese pythons from Alligators to birds to wild deer to pigs. That is why they do pretty well in Florida. Like I said before though, every year in the winter more and more burms die. I don't know how well exotics from the U.S. would do in Australia in the wild. Take the corn snake for ex. Say a corn does manage to get loose in the wild, over there, you have so many predators from Native cats to dingos, other snakes such as Womas and Black-headed pythons to monitors. And what about the temperature difference from the United States to Australia? There are so many factors to take into consideration when talking about how exotics will do in a non native environment.


But your just taking one animal..... if we allow exotics we allow millions of animals and some out of sheer quantity are bound to do well take the savanah monitor for example their habitat is the african savanah (dry gasslands) and they have much the same diet as other monitors therefore they would be an excelant candidate for disaster, placing strain on the natural food order and competing with other animals it's size And what would be it's predator?? Not much. This is just an example but think of the millions of other possibioities not to mention diseases that could be introduced.


----------



## Colin (Oct 24, 2011)

bottom line is exotics are illegal for private keepers (in most cases) in Australia.
we wont be allowing imports of exotics in the near futire if ever for private keepers.
this subject has been done to death over and over again.. it reminds me of a mouse running around on one of those mice wheels and never going anywhere.. so Im closing this thread.


----------

