# snow/moonglow questions



## simon.chen (Mar 29, 2021)

Wondering what are the babies gonna be if you breed pair of moonglow/snow together?And why hasn't anyone done this yet?

Is the whole black carpet is the next big thing?


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## Shikito123 (Mar 29, 2021)

Hi. Pretty sure that's how it's usually done. 

So half the clutch would be snows and half moonglows


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## Sdaji (Mar 29, 2021)

Snow and moonglow are general terms in herpetocultural terminology, not specific to Carpets. People were using these terms in species such as Boas and Corns long before people started working on trying to make them in Carpets.

A moonglow is a hypo (whatever type of hypo), albino, anery or axanthic (often the axanthics aren't true axanthics, as in the Carpets). Snows are just anery/axanthic/"axanthic" albinoes. Albinism is more or less always recessive. Anery/axanthic/"axanthic" is generally recessive. All sorts of things get called "hypo", in a broad spectrum between dominant and recessive (often with debates about whether they're recessive, dominant or the intermediate condition which people argue about being codominant or incomplete dominant, which is a debate not worth bothering with and rarely had by anyone who actually understands the terms anyway).

Thus, a moonglow is a hypo snow.

If you can understand all of this, you'll understand the answer to your question, if not, start with getting your head around the above, or the answer to your question will be pretty meaningless anyway. You don't need to relearn it for every different species, the same concept works for all of them. If you understand how all of the ingredients work, you just combine them, and you can just learn the combination labels. This might sound annoying, but skipping this step will just lead to you never actually understanding the situation (a very popular way of doing things!).


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## simon.chen (Mar 29, 2021)

well explained mate! I found out those legends still breeding pair of 100% double het together. or just one moonglow with het. little bit curious tough. 


Sdaji said:


> Snow and moonglow are general terms in herpetocultural terminology, not specific to Carpets. People were using these terms in species such as Boas and Corns long before people started working on trying to make them in Carpets.
> 
> A moonglow is a hypo (whatever type of hypo), albino, anery or axanthic (often the axanthics aren't true axanthics, as in the Carpets). Snows are just anery/axanthic/"axanthic" albinoes. Albinism is more or less always recessive. Anery/axanthic/"axanthic" is generally recessive. All sorts of things get called "hypo", in a broad spectrum between dominant and recessive (often with debates about whether they're recessive, dominant or the intermediate condition which people argue about being codominant or incomplete dominant, which is a debate not worth bothering with and rarely had by anyone who actually understands the terms anyway).
> 
> ...


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The albino olive and spotted dropped the price to 1/3 for the past three years ,the moonglow is still pretty rare.

Wondering what is the survive rate of the hatchling ?(Albino spotted is quite low)

Also there is not much guide line between snow /moonglow from visual ,they all have patterns, other than the lighter colour is moon ,what else can you tell?


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## msxcbvc (Apr 9, 2021)

Moonglows and snows have not come down in price as much as things like albino olives/spotted over time as you are much less likely to produce an animal carrying 2 or three recessive genes than an animal carrying just one, particularly since the most accessible way to breed moonglows for most people involves hets, which reduce your chances of having offspring showing the traits you’re looking for.

The survival rate as far as I am aware for those animals would be the same as any other carpet python that has been line bred or selectively bred.

In terms of identifying snows and moonglows, it would not always be clear cut, especially for hatchlings, as expression of each trait can vary between lines and animals, you would often see for sale animals that are older as snows tend to develop more of a pattern as time goes on


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## Sdaji (Apr 9, 2021)

msxcbvc said:


> Moonglows and snows have not come down in price as much as things like albino olives/spotted over time as you are much less likely to produce an animal carrying 2 or three recessive genes than an animal carrying just one, particularly since the most accessible way to breed moonglows for most people involves hets, which reduce your chances of having offspring showing the traits you’re looking for.
> 
> The survival rate as far as I am aware for those animals would be the same as any other carpet python that has been line bred or selectively bred.
> 
> In terms of identifying snows and moonglows, it would not always be clear cut, especially for hatchlings, as expression of each trait can vary between lines and animals, you would often see for sale animals that are older as snows tend to develop more of a pattern as time goes on


Albino Olives have been around for more than 20 years. Moonglow Carpets will crash more in 20 years than did the Olives and Macs.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 9, 2021)

Lol the price of moonglows and snows has already crashed in the last year or so


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## simon.chen (Apr 13, 2021)

msxcbvc said:


> Moonglows and snows have not come down in price as much as things like albino olives/spotted over time as you are much less likely to produce an animal carrying 2 or three recessive genes than an animal carrying just one, particularly since the most accessible way to breed moonglows for most people involves hets, which reduce your chances of having offspring showing the traits you’re looking for.
> 
> The survival rate as far as I am aware for those animals would be the same as any other carpet python that has been line bred or selectively bred.
> 
> In terms of identifying snows and moonglows, it would not always be clear cut, especially for hatchlings, as expression of each trait can vary between lines and animals, you would often see for sale animals that are older as snows tend to develop more of a pattern as time goes on


That helps a lot mate！ So there is really no way to tell the difference from babies. If the snake shed 15 times and grow after 6 month ,still remain white and patternless ,is it safe to say that it is a moonglow by then?


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## Herpetology (Apr 13, 2021)

if its truly patternless then its not a moonglow, its a full moon which is the "super" moonglow, moonglow has very slight pattern which can be seen in the right light but less patterning then a snow which is quite obvious in any light


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## simon.chen (Apr 13, 2021)

Herptology said:


> if its truly patternless then its not a moonglow, its a full moon which is the "super" moonglow, moonglow has very slight pattern which can be seen in the right light but less patterning then a snow which is quite obvious in any


Right I see. But when you purchasing a baby(not adult color yet), how do you tell if it is a snow or moonglow.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 14, 2021)

simon.chen said:


> Right I see. But when you purchasing a baby(not adult color yet), how do you tell if it is a snow or moonglow.


You can never really tell how a hatchling carpet will look as an adult mate, best is too look at parents


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## simon.chen (Apr 14, 2021)

> You can never really tell how a hatchling carpet will look as an adult mate, best is too look at parents


The parents are indeed moonglows. But it is pretty hard to pick the baby out, all snow/moon babies look very similar.


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## Herpetology (Apr 14, 2021)

simon.chen said:


> The parents are indeed moonglows. But it is pretty hard to pick the baby out, all snow/moon babies look very similar.


do you have any pictures of the intended hatchling


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## simon.chen (Apr 14, 2021)

Herptology said:


> do you have any pictures of the intended hatchling


I got this and very happy , but is there still a chance that it could turn into snow after 12 month?


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## msxcbvc (Apr 19, 2021)

Depending on the animal you may not be able to tell it’s a moonglow unless you breed it and get hypo/caramel offspring. If you’re happy with how the animal looks and how it’s parents look it doesn’t really matter, even if you’re breeding and it turns out snow it will likely produce similar looking offspring to itself assuming you pair it with animals from similar lines


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## Ajar5 (Apr 20, 2021)

msxcbvc said:


> Depending on the animal you may not be able to tell it’s a moonglow unless you breed it and get hypo/caramel offspring. If you’re happy with how the animal looks and how it’s parents look it doesn’t really matter, even if you’re breeding and it turns out snow it will likely produce similar looking offspring to itself assuming you pair it with animals from similar lines


That's true and hence why moons are dropping in price quick


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