# it finally happened!



## Python2011 (Feb 22, 2003)

hey guys take a look!!!! my girl layed!!!!!!!!!










I'm very excited!!!!1 :lol: :lol:


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## sobrien (Feb 22, 2003)

:!: :!: :shock:  
WOW
Congatratulations


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## redbacksnake (Feb 22, 2003)

Wow what type of snake is she and how big is she?
Congrats!! :wink: 

Glenn


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## sobrien (Feb 22, 2003)

Looks like a reticulated python to me


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## Slateman (Feb 22, 2003)

What a great moment that must be. Congratulation


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## Nicole (Feb 22, 2003)

OHHH WOWWWW!!!!!
Francesco, that is absolutely fantastic!
I'm excited for you too! 
   

BTW, Is she a burmese?


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## africancichlidau (Feb 22, 2003)

Hi Python, Congratulations.


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## Python2011 (Feb 23, 2003)

it's a python molurus bivittatus, she's 3 years old, and she's 5,30m. I paired her with an albino male.


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## africancichlidau (Feb 23, 2003)

And, drum roll, the common name is........... ?


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## Python2011 (Feb 23, 2003)

......... burmese python! I'm sorry, guys, In Italy we use always latin names!!!!!


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## Hawkeye (Feb 23, 2003)

:shock: 

That is a damn big snake! Congrats Python!

Cheers Hawkeye


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## metallicagear (Feb 23, 2003)

cool snake!!!!!!!!!!anyone know where i can get one....b4 you answer,i know they are exotics


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

they're erotics eh? to each man his own...

and you answered your own question about getting one mg


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## stretch (Feb 23, 2003)

Ohhhhh an erotic snake, I gotta get me one of those.............

Congrats on the eggs! She looks a gorgeous snake, beautiful markings.
I am excited for you too!!! 

Can't wait for the birthing piccies...hehehe


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## Vat69 (Feb 23, 2003)

Congrats!  Can't wait to see that colour of the babies!


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## saikrett (Feb 23, 2003)

were there only 18 eggs?
i thought a snake that size would lay alot more?


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

Python, am i right that this is her first clutch? seem to remember hearing that from you, but could be wrong heh


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## metallicagear (Feb 23, 2003)

Hello Python.Are you Ozzy Ozbourne's son? :lol: 
Is 500 too much for a burmese python?


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

sounds to me like you're trying to buy an illegal snake metal...


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## Nicole (Feb 23, 2003)

Metal, Python is in Italy and they have very different laws...
If you were trying to buy an illegal snake, I'd like to think that you won't find too many people around here to help you with that...
I think you'd also find many people who wouldn't hesitate to report any illegal keeping they might come across...


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## Slateman (Feb 23, 2003)

I would be one of them


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## saikrett (Feb 23, 2003)

hear hear
just curious though, how much would a baby burmese go for over there?


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

sh*t all lol, at least thats what they are in america


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## Nicole (Feb 23, 2003)

Yeah, I've seen them for $100 on US sites... there are not expensive..
I guess fairly popular so lots of breeders...


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## saikrett (Feb 23, 2003)

really?
i thought a big snake like that would go for quite a bit.
I guess that our natives must get alot over there


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

they are really common as a first snake, mainly due to their price... their size though means they really shouldn't be. a lot of people get sucked into buying them by seeing them as a baby in the shop and a good salesperson working there. one problem of not needing a licence :?


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## Nicole (Feb 23, 2003)

Ditto to everything sam has said!
I saw a discovery channel program on these, acording to it heaps of people get these as babies then can't look after them as they grow and they get dumped.


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## saikrett (Feb 23, 2003)

there emense size would be the think that would make me buy one 
(if it was legal or if i was american)


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

yep nic, you can get adults for next to nothing as well, due to the fact that there are an abundance of large snakes, now unwanted, and not too many people are looking to buy something that big!

big burms are awesome, as long as they're placid. i wouldn't want to deal with an agressive snake that looks at me like i'm food... you wouldn't have to smell like rat either


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

oh and just to let you know, (sorry to jump in here fran ) there were actually about 60 eggs laid. only 20 would fit in the incubator, the rest are being incubated maternally  heh, congrats again mate!


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## almaron (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes, they are cheap here. Shopping around, you can get babies for about $100US, and albinos for around $150. It's true that it can be cheaper to get adults. Most areas have local pet "adoption" groups, and adult burmese are easy to come by. I have yet to see an aggressive burmese, adult or otherwise. In my opinion, that makes them more dangerous, because it's way to easy to start trusting them too much. Burmese are responsible for more deaths than any other snake here (although still very rare). I think the reason is because they are normally so docile, and so you aren't expecting it when they do nail you. 

As far as licencing them, I still say boo on that. I would point out that dogs cause far more deaths and injuries than snakes, and I don't hear anyone making a case for restricting dog ownership. I have a quite large German Shepard that has the potential to be far more dangerous to *anyone*, kids or adults, than any non-venomous snake I can think of. With that said, I'll have you know that my dog is quite a big baby, and calm as a hindu cow for the most part. But just ask the cable guy, and he'll tell you that he would rather deal with a full grown reticulated python than my dog any day.


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## lutzd (Feb 23, 2003)

*Licensing*

Hey Almaron. 

I have to say I don't agree with you re licensing. JMHO, of course! :wink: 

The licensing situation here in New South Wales is a pretty strict one with rigid guidelines and regulations. This may seem onerous at first, but it results in greatly reduced impulse buying and people with licenses tend to care for their animals. We don't have the excess dumped, "lost interest in snakes anymore" problem that you seem to in the US.

On the other hand, cats and dogs, which are NOT licensed, are regularly dumped, particularly after Christmas, when the new owners find that the "aw shucks! Ain't he cute" phenomenon wears off and they realise that keeping pets involves responsibility.

The main reason for the licensing of snakes, as far as I know, is to attempt to maintain the purity of the breeds and care for our native wildlife. 

Check out http://www.npws.nsw.gov.au/index.html and you'll get an idea of what they're all about.

The licensing isn't so much for the protection of the keeper (although I guess the licensing conditions for venemous species DOES result in the protection of the keeper) as to putting the interest of our wildlife first.

Anyway, not trying to start a flame war here! :lol: Just offering a different point of view. :wink:


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## almaron (Feb 23, 2003)

In my experience, government imposed "fixes" seldom help solve the problem, and/or usually create whole new problems that they are more than happy to try to "fix" with more regulations. I really don't like the idea of someone telling me what I can or can't own. What you seem to be arguing is that because some people aren't responsible, everyone should suffer. That don't sit well with me. I feel the same way about almost all restrictions on personal freedoms. Drug laws. Gun laws. 

I guess what I'm getting at is that shouldn't it be enough to make a law that says "You must take care of pets you choose to own." and "You can't dump your pets into the wild." Instead, they make laws to try to enforce the laws that people are already breaking. To me, it's like saying because some people drive when they've had too much to drink, nobody should be allowed to drink. Or because some people murder other people with guns, we should ban guns. I mean, isn't it stupid to think that someone who would commit murder is going to pay any head to a law that says they can't own a gun? The only people that suffer, are those that obey laws in the first place. 

As far as I'm concerned, the same goes for licensing pet ownership. Only those that are responsible to begin with will go through the hassle of obtaining a licence. Maybe you're right that it would cut down on impulse buying of animals, but as far as I'm concerned, someone elses lack of responsibility is not a good enough justification for limiting my freedom.

Ok, I'm done ranting for the time being.


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## Nicole (Feb 23, 2003)

Again, just my personal opinion, but I have to side against you on all counts Almaron. Laws to keep exotics and exotic diseases out makes good sense to me. Laws against wild capture of our beautiful native herps makes good sense to me too. 
Laws against owning guns makes even better sense to me. Unless you live on a big property, people just don't need 'em and no good can come from them.

Just my opinion!!


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## hey_im_sam (Feb 23, 2003)

Heh, hate to say it, but i'm against you here too Almaron.

I know that other people's opinions rarely sway your own, especially if it's something you feel strongly about, but there's one thing I have to say here.

The point I am going to mention here is only one, of many, yet I'll hold myself to this one because I believe that were it the only reason, it would be enough.

where you said



> Maybe you're right that it would cut down on impulse buying of animals, but as far as I'm concerned, someone elses lack of responsibility is not a good enough justification for limiting my freedom.



I can see your point, from one point of view. Mine however, takes into account that those irresponsible people are the cause of death and misery to countless animals that don't deserve it. 

If I have to pay an extra few dollars a year, and write what animals I keep on a piece of paper, then I am more than willing to "limit my freedom" if it means saving some of those animals from ending up with the irresponsible element in society. Good enough justification for me.


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## Hawkeye (Feb 24, 2003)

Almaron,

It's just a different cultural aspect that you are seeing. Americans believe in fairly minimal government involvement in most things wereas in Australia/New Zealand and the UK, there is already a large government involvement with things like health and social welfare and therefore we are a little more accepting of government edicts.

There are advantages to both sides and it is annoying that we cannot purchase exotics here but then again its nice that we have a good selection of natives that are thriving in Australia and introduced animals are not competing with them (look at the problem we have with rabbits and foxes in Australia and Opossums in New Zealand).

Horses for courses.

Cheers Hawkeye :wink:


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## almaron (Feb 24, 2003)

Ok, I didn't mean to start the exotics argument again. Really I was only trying to argue the licensing thing. We've argued the exotics topic before, and even though I would debate the merits of the ban on exotics (which we have to great lengths before  ), it is one thing to make a law that says you can't own exotics. My biggest problem is when the government realizes that the first law is being broken (which every law is at some point), and they start making new laws to try to "fix" the fact that people are breaking the original law. It would be like saying the some people are still owning exotics, so now nobody can own any snakes. Well, hello! Why would someone who is already breaking the first law, obey the second, or third, or so on. That's the one extreme, but I think everything else is just various degrees of the same logic. 

Not to change the subject (and it is related), but as far as guns go, I strongly disagree Nicole. I think all you have to do is look at the crime rate before and after sweeping gun bans to prove you are wrong. I've seen the numbers for Canada, the UK, and yes even good old Australia. All of their crime rates skyrocketed after major gun bans took effect. As someone who carries a handgun on a daily basis, I would say that you are mistaken about them not having any usefulness. My gun has saved my life, the lives of my family, and my property more than once. I've have yet to have to pull the trigger in those circumstances, as the mere fact that I had it in my hand was enough to solve the threat. Maybe it's a nice Disneyland fairy tale idea that the whole world is free of guns, and everyone gets along. Yet one only needs to look back through human history to see that the reality is far different. In the lack of some equalizing force (like a gun), the strong dominate the weak. Often in quite brutal ways. I would not like to be young, old, sick, weak, or a woman in such a society. 

To sum it up, when my wife goes to the grocery store after dark, I worry. I worry much less knowing that even some 300 pound gorilla of a thug would have a very hard time dealing with her if he tried to infringe on her personal freedoms. She is armed. She is competent. She is safer. Without her gun, she is a victim waiting to happen.


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## lutzd (Feb 24, 2003)

*:-(*

Hey guys, I'm sorry if my comments started a flame war! :shock:  [Borrows asbestos undies from Hawkeye and hunkers down behind Africa!]

As Hawkeye wisely said, it's probably a different cultural aspect we're seeing here, and we'll probably never persuade each other to the differing point of view. 

If we compare the situation between America and here, the laws seem to be working well for us and suit us, and equally, the lack of regulation in America seems to be working for our good mate Almaron et al [pun intended]. 

Let's agree to disagree, eh? :lol:


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## Python2011 (Feb 24, 2003)

hey guuys, thank you for your congratulation. anyway as sam said, I've about 60 eggs, 20 of them I put in the incubator, and I left the other 40 or more to the mother! in italy a burm costs about 130? and 200? for an albino one(? is=to american dollar). 
in italy we have a law on dangerous animals, including all dangerous mammals(lions, tigers, ecc), all venomous reptiles(except some rear fanged) all crocodile, all monitors, 3 species of turtles( chelidra serpentina, macroclemmys temmincky and mauremis caspica), green anaconda(eunectes murinus) and the reticulated python. all the other reptiles can be buyed normaly in a pet shop. they need only the CITES paper (Convention on International Trade on Endangered Species).
ciao!


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## Nicole (Feb 24, 2003)

Hey Almaron.
I agree with what David said, perhaps our cultures are just too different on these types of issues, and I doubt we could get consensus on it.
We'll have to agree to STRONGLY disagree.
Nothing or no one could make me carry a handgun.

The laws in Italy are interesting..
Weird how most exotics are ok but no retics or anacondas allowed... obviously laws in place to protect citizens, rather than our laws which mostly protect wildlife. Very interesting. Thanks for posting on this Fran!


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## stretch (Feb 24, 2003)

My one and only say on the topic:

Guns=death
more guns=more death

Take it from someone who has done the research on Australia and guns as part of her career choice.

It is totally different in the USA. You can get shot for having a different opinion (and often dom just look at the gang situation) You cannot blame people for needing them. I am glad I do not live there!

Australia is not like that. We do not need to carry handguns and the new gun laws REDUCED crime. 

Now, lets get back to the burmese and her gorgeous eggs! 

Sue


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## Slateman (Feb 24, 2003)

Well said Stretch. I hate violence


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## Magpie (Feb 24, 2003)

What do you feed her python? Do you breed your own food or buy it? Just curious coz a snake that big must eat a hell of a lot. I remember the discussion we had about scrubbies and they ate a huge amount.  
Also how big is her enclosure? Once again I would think 'HUGE'


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## Python2011 (Feb 24, 2003)

I feed her once at month! I give her the equivalent of 10kg of food, consisting in rabbits or turkey legs. I used to give her 3 turkey meal and 1 of prekilled rabbits(prekilled by me). her last meal was on 12 of december, and the next will be in 2 month and alf, after she'll leave the cluch. I live in a flat, so I've to buy the food.
I buy rabbits at the price of 3,20?/kg ( I suppose it's like 6,50 AU$)
ciao


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## Magpie (Feb 25, 2003)

Shame you don't live near me, I have a whole turkey that I would just love for you to have. :? 
But then if you lived near me I guess you wouldn't be able to keep a Burmese hey? :? 
The turkey came about from a rescue for the wildlife organisation that I am part of (WIRES) now I am trying desperately to get rid of the damn thing. Hey CheeJ, I'll swap it for a pair of Bredli.


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## MarcVanEijnsbergen (Feb 27, 2003)

*Ok, so some pics of mother burm now??*

Hey Francesco, 

how about some pics of the mother incubating her clutch? And why don't you get those other eggs out as well while someone else takes some pics? Come on, no need to hold her head, just get in there and snatch those eggs!  LOL 

Curious to see how she looks!  Did you get my e-mail BTW?


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## Python2011 (Feb 27, 2003)

take a look!!!


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## MarcVanEijnsbergen (Feb 27, 2003)

*Magnifico!!!*

How amazing Francesco!!  She looks like she can breed again!! :lol: 

Thanks for the picture!!

Marc

http://python.bogusz.org


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## almaron (Feb 27, 2003)

I'm with Marc. I want to see some pics of you taking those eggs from her man.  

Great looking snake by the way. Then again, all your snakes look good. :wink:


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## Python2011 (Feb 27, 2003)

thank you guys!!!!!! it's a big satisfaction for me!


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## Pinkie (Mar 10, 2003)

Nice eggs, nice snake! Good luck with everything  

Magpie I know how you feel, I had a sweet old lady ring up and describe: " A beautiful bird, with red, blue, green and yellow feathers, very large body and beak, makes a squawking noise"
I stupidly thought it would be something good/rare parrot, but it turned out to be an Oriental Guinea Fowl, one of the dumbest birds I have ever encountered... like a chicken but with coloured feathers. We were stuck with it for months until a fox came and nabbed it one night. :roll:


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## Python2011 (Apr 22, 2003)

this is the day 60!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 22, 2003)

Congrats,
Beautiful snakes there Python.
Out of interest what would it cost me to send you a vcr cassette tape and you freight it back to me with a nice pair of albinos?

PS 
Ear bash me if ya like guys IM ALL FOR EXOTICS lol :lol:
even if me and Fangs have to apply for a 1 day interim private zoo licence!


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## tony (Apr 22, 2003)

how many hatched francesco, and did you get any albino ones at all?


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## saikrett (Apr 22, 2003)

congrats


when will you have them feeding by?
what will you feed them?


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## Magpie (Apr 22, 2003)

Congaratulations :wink: . I am very very very jealous. I am not pro change regarding our laws on exotics but if they did change, I'd be getting a pair of Burm's for sure. How many out now?
PS. can you take a photo that gives us an idea of scale, like with a matchbox or something?


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## Python2011 (Apr 23, 2003)

the baby is about 50 cm. look at the newspaper for match the scale
guess that this baby was in the egg on my hand
thank you to all for the compliments!
fresh photo will come


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## Python2011 (Apr 24, 2003)

*first 9 births*


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## Python2011 (Apr 24, 2003)

this is me with a hatchling baby!


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## dan_lizard (Apr 24, 2003)

They look absolutely incredable python! 

Well done, and congratulations! (Even though secretly a lot of us hate you for having such beautiful animals.... Ahhh jealousy is a curse!!!  )


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## Python2011 (Apr 24, 2003)

*updating......*

this morning I found other 10 out! now they're 41! I'm waiting for the other 31 eggs!!!!!!!!!! :wink:


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