# Animal Cruelty in China



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 16, 2012)

View attachment 242915


On a commercial street in China, little tortoises are found packaged as souvenir!!! These little tortoises are still alive and swimming inside a herbal solution. The store owner says it can live for 1-3 months. 5 RMB a piece.

This is too cruel and unacceptable!!! God knows how many little lives were slowly suffocated to silent death; their fate sealed in a bag!!!

Has the commercial world no more other ideas to make money!!!

Please help "Share" this. Hopefully some media or government will pick up this news and step in to stop this animal cruelty! Perhaps find the real victim and put an end to such uncivilized act!


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 16, 2012)

Live dogs dragged behind boats as shark bait...all sorts of horrible, horrible things happen to animals in these dreadful countries....thankfully there are people in the world who try and help. Has anyone watched the show about Luke Gamble the pommie vet who goes all over the world trying to teach people how to take care of their animals and he tries to rescue animals too.....so much to be done. But then there are people who say....what about the abused and starving peoples of the world, shouldn't they come before animals......sadly the world will never be perfect, and I seriously doubt any of these problems will be completely solved....it's a sad world we live in. :cry:


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 16, 2012)

Horrible!!! I have heard some people even eat cows and chickens! What is the world coming to!!!


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 16, 2012)

I used to donate money to a French charity which provided medical care to people in third world countries. I've since stopped and now my donation goes to the WSPA for animals as I believe they are much more deserving. 

It's funny how simple things can change your opinion of someone completely. Last night I made a Facebook post about my new roughy and during the course of the conversation discovered that a lady I work with hates frogs so much that she kills them with dettol. I can't fathom doing such a horrible thing but she seems to have no issue. I told her that's cruel and illegal and she said sorry Sarah, I hate them. I replied that I hoped no one ever thought that way about her or any of her family members and decided to kill them. I received no response. 

Yep, animals are much more deserving of help. 


Erbitting the oarth.



Scleropages said:


> Horrible!!! I have heard some people even eat cows and chickens! What is the world coming to!!!



Big difference dude. 


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 16, 2012)

akarsha said:


> Big difference dude.
> 
> 
> Erbitting the oarth.



I don't see any big difference... Turtle dying in a bag because some one thinks its cool or a chicken dying in a meat processing factory because some one eats KFC.
Sure the turtle will take longer to die but both are dying to "satisfy people" when it's not needed.

Personally I would of gone nuts at the guy selling them... turtles dying in bags as gifts... ***!


----------



## moosenoose (Mar 16, 2012)

When you see that video of a very young Chinese girl getting run over by numerous cars (simply because they can't be bothered going around her) and then when someone does actually hit her and run over her, the next 3 or 4 cars passing by continue doing so (and knowing perfectly well its a young girl! - who incidentally dies in the end due to horrific crushing injuries) .....do you think for a moment the majority of these people give a stuff about a turtle?? Or any animal?? I'm guessing not. 

That said...what can you do? Obviously they are selling these poor things


----------



## Pinoy (Mar 16, 2012)

The people that buy them for any reason are just as bad as the people selling them.


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 16, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> I don't see any big difference... Turtle dying in a bag because some one thinks its cool or a chicken dying in a meat processing factory because some one eats KFC.
> Sure the turtle will take longer to die but both are dying to "satisfy people" when it's not needed.
> 
> Personally I would of gone nuts at the guy selling them... turtles dying in bags as gifts... ***!



The length of time it takes the turtle to die makes a hell of a difference. It's just as bad as skinning live foxes for their fur. Absolutely disgusting and much much different than animals being put to slaughter for food. 


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## CrystalMoon (Mar 16, 2012)

This is disgusting, as are a lot of atrocities against animals/children(big people can look after themselves) I know we are predominately omnivours(sp) and I personally try very hard to purchase grass fed meat animals now I am in suburbia(used to butcher my own quickly as possible prior) I used to actually go to egg farms and purchase the hens for my own eggs so they could live a free range life. I think what happens to animals for the sake of human consumption/medicine/warped ideas is horrid. I guess I am ok with animals for the table as long as they are killed quickly and cleanly for the sake of consumption opposed to those that are tortured for whatever sick reason. For example the little bagged tortoises and those poor little sun bears that are declawed etc


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 16, 2012)

Totally agree with you moose, that's exactly what their like over there, no respect for anything living, dead, even themselves.

You only have to put "Chinese Animal Cruelty" or "Bonsai Kitten" in Google and you will soon realise it's just not turtles suffocating in bags they like to torture.


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 16, 2012)

Bonsai kittens is and always has been a scam. 


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## thomasbecker (Mar 16, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> Horrible!!! I have heard some people even eat cows and chickens! What is the world coming to!!!



God put these animals on the Earth for our benefits and we are to rule over them.


----------



## Australis (Mar 16, 2012)

thomasbecker said:


> God put these animals on the Earth for our benefits and we are to rule over them.



Cant tell if trolling or just *****


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 16, 2012)

thomasbecker said:


> God put these animals on the Earth for our benefits and we are to rule over them.



***??? Are you serious?

Animals were well and truly here on earth before we showed up to slowly destroy them!


----------



## Beard (Mar 16, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> Horrible!!! I have heard some people even eat cows and chickens! What is the world coming to!!!



Really, I go to the butcher and get meat thats packed in plastic, where no animals were harmed.


----------



## Boidae (Mar 16, 2012)

Not to sound like a racist tool, but it's hardly anything new in China. 
But Christ, we're no better over here.
They also 'live skin' animals in some countries.

Ahh Humans, we truly are pathetic creatures..


----------



## moosenoose (Mar 16, 2012)

Beard said:


> Really, I go to the butcher and get meat thats packed in plastic, where no animals were harmed.



No, I just go to my local paddock find a cow and pop a plastic bag over its head, wait til it's stopped struggling, then back in the ute :lol: China-style


----------



## Dipcdame (Mar 16, 2012)

boidae said:


> Not to sound like a racist tool, but it's hardly anything new in China.
> But Christ, we're no better over here.
> They also 'live skin' animals in some countries.
> 
> Ahh Humans, we truly are pathetic creatures..



I only just heard yesterday how they live skin animals in America too ................. what the hell is the world coming to?????


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 16, 2012)

Google earthlings and watch the movie in the link that comes up. It's horrible. I hate people. 


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 16, 2012)

akarsha said:


> Bonsai kittens is and always has been a scam.
> 
> 
> Erbitting the oarth.



Never heard of Bonsai kittens, but there's a lot things that go on in this world I don't know about.


----------



## Grogshla (Mar 16, 2012)

sick sick people but we find this in many races.


----------



## nagini-baby (Mar 16, 2012)

i hate people. give me an animal any day. atleast they know what they truly are. they no they are warm or cold. hungry or thirsty. mother or father. they only kill when necessesary. i have never seen a cruel animal. a sadistic animal or a selfish animal. people make me sick. whats even worse is that these people and anyone who condones this behaviour cant see or even fathom what is so wrong about it. why not lock them in a jar or small bag with herbs for the rest of their life. let them starve to death.. they obviously have no issue with it. makes you wonder if this really is a world i want to be apart of .


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

Well said nagini... couldn't agree more!


----------



## Jande (Mar 17, 2012)

Bonsai kittens... I didn't know and I feel so much regret for googling to find out. I've just spent 5 minutes throwing up and crying my **** off at the thought. I just have no words... and I'm rarely speechless. And turtles in bags... ugh I think I might be sick again.


----------



## Jeannine (Mar 17, 2012)

*bonsai kittens is a SCAM, it does NOT happen this was proved a long time ago, in fact someone in here said it was a SCAM

i fell for it too and in fact emailed the RSPCA who told me it was a SCAM and sent me links to prove it

snopes.com: Bonsai Kittens
*


----------



## Jande (Mar 17, 2012)

It was more the thought of it. Sometimes the mere thought can be enough to upset people. I never said I believed it... just to clear that up. But thanks for the info Jeannine.


----------



## Jeannine (Mar 17, 2012)

*yep i gotta agree i was very upset when i was first linked to a site about it

however one member had already clearly stated on page 1 it was a scam

Protest Message - Live 'Tortoise' Souvenirs Sold in China
*


----------



## Retic (Mar 17, 2012)

Lets not be too hard on the Chinese, afterall where would we get our $400 big screen TVs and iPads if it werent for them and dont forget where would the economy be without them buying everything we dig out of the ground? I think we can ignore a bit of animal cruelty as well as a sprinkling of human rights abuse.


----------



## Roadhouse (Mar 17, 2012)

Chickens, kittens, humans... At the end of the day the guy flogging the turtle key rings needs a kick in the nuts.


----------



## PythonLegs (Mar 17, 2012)

thomasbecker said:


> God put these animals on the Earth for our benefits and we are to rule over them.


Thats a coincidence, he put you on the earth for my benefit, and I am to rule over you.


----------



## thomasbecker (Mar 17, 2012)

Maybe you guys should read Genesis 1:26 just to remind yourselves.

I'm not saying that what is happening to animals around the world isn't cruel, I totally agree with you but in terms of livestock they are to benefit us but how we are dealing with some of the livestock is cruelty. It will continue to do so because no government around the world gives a stuff about animal rights and prefer to spend millions of dollars on new cars and big planes.


----------



## dihsmaj (Mar 17, 2012)

thomasbecker said:


> Maybe you guys should read Genesis 1:26 just to remind yourselves.
> 
> I'm not saying that what is happening to animals around the world isn't cruel, I totally agree with you but in terms of livestock they are to benefit us but how we are dealing with some of the livestock is cruelty. It will continue to do so because no government around the world gives a stuff about animal rights and prefer to spend millions of dollars on new cars and big planes.


 I thought no-one believed Genesis anymore? Well, you learn knew things everyday!


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

My apologies... I wasn't aware that the bonsai kitten was a scam. BUT... you still have to think, this turtle in a bag bs is true and if they are doing this to turtles, what else are they doing to cats, dogs, reptiles, actually any animal???

I was in Shanghai for 9 months, and what I seen them doing to animals and other people would literally make you throw up in shock. They have no respect towards anything living or dead.

I guess it's something that only I understand as I've been to China, so unless you have been there, then you don't understand and have no right to condone what they are doing in the picture I posted up or anything else you may feel sorry for them about!


----------



## dihsmaj (Mar 17, 2012)

dad's been to china, and this stuff isn't everywhere.


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

Have you been?... Then you have no idea!


----------



## Wookie (Mar 17, 2012)

Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## Specks (Mar 17, 2012)

I work in a slaughter yard (abbotoir) and people really have no idea what goes on
We mainly kill pigs but do cattle throught the week occasionally
we are only a small operation with 9 people working at anytime
before pigs are killed they are kept in shaded pens with access to water taps and regularily sprayed as it is hot out west here
Pigs are stunned with an electric clamp and are immediatly unconscious
Once they enter the building they are bled out before they even wake
Many people i talk to believe we are cruel and abusing to the animals and cause severe pain, none what so ever occour
if anyone does want to discuss by all means reply, im all ears


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 17, 2012)

Jande said:


> It was more the thought of it. Sometimes the mere thought can be enough to upset people. I never said I believed it... just to clear that up. But thanks for the info Jeannine.




Indeed the very thought of things can be upsetting, that's why I didn't try to find out about it...and sounds like I was right not to...



boa said:


> Lets not be too hard on the Chinese, afterall where would we get our $400 big screen TVs and iPads if it werent for them and dont forget where would the economy be without them buying everything we dig out of the ground? I think we can ignore a bit of animal cruelty as well as a sprinkling of human rights abuse.




You're joking right ???? ..........

An observation I've made...... someone mentioned the Bible and God creating man to be master over animals...or something like that. Next thing I see is someone putting the person down for what they believe...yet the person who believes does not put the non believer down. I don't think it's fair, that a either person has the right to put down the other, we are all entitled to believe what we like about life without being put down by anyone else.


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 17, 2012)

Wookie said:


> Erbitting the oarth.



My signature? Hmm.



Specks said:


> I work in a slaughter yard (abbotoir) and people really have no idea what goes on
> We mainly kill pigs but do cattle throught the week occasionally
> we are only a small operation with 9 people working at anytime
> before pigs are killed they are kept in shaded pens with access to water taps and regularily sprayed as it is hot out west here
> ...



I thought those electric rods were now illegal?


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## FAY (Mar 17, 2012)

The more I know about human nature, the more I love animals.......


----------



## slim6y (Mar 17, 2012)

So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....

Where do you draw the line?

Let's say it was toads in a bag? Would you complain then? Would you say it's cruel? Would you stop smashing them with golf clubs or alternatively would you start smashing turtles with golf clubs?

Ok... That's not that extreme is it? Really? I know of at least a dozen on APS who'd happily smash toads with a golf club....

I'm not here getting into that argument - I'm here to see where you stand on animal cruelty...

So... Not a toad or tortoise or a turtle in a bag... But a guppie...? Is that cruel?

We take them home in bags (normally to put them in a bigger tank) but what say they were in a herbal tea swimming in a bag? Cruel?

Ok... Why not move to an extreme - a cockroach - what if I sold a cockroach in a bag....? Oh, I'm not talking your fancy smancy burrowing hissing madagascans... I'm talking your dirty, yucky, disease ridden German Roach... The ones festering under your fridge right now...

If some Chineseman was selling those in a bag - would you consider it cruel?

Let's take a step back and look at the odds...

If you put a cute widdle tortoise in a bag it's cruel...

If you put an ugly toad in a bag probably about half of you had to think whether it was cruel or not...

If you put a disgusting cockroach in the bag you've all of a sudden come up with double standards... (most cases I'd say).

So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 17, 2012)

Personally I think giving any living thing a lingering death is cruel. I've seen weekend fishermen on jetties put their catch in a bucket and the poor fish flaps around till it eventually dies...that to me is cruelty. I most certainly don't condone hitting toads with golf sticks, unless the death is instant .... if something is to be killed, then do it as quickly as possible, no matter what it is, how large or small, but make it quick. I have a friend who has a very sick 14yr old dog, I believe he's putting that dog through agony by continually experimenting with drugs etc just to keep it alive for a few more weeks. I think he's being cruel and selfish.


----------



## Retic (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry, i tried to make it as obvious as i could 



grannieannie said:


> You're joking right ???? ..........


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 17, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> I have a friend who has a very sick 14yr old dog, I believe he's putting that dog through agony by continually experimenting with drugs etc just to keep it alive for a few more weeks. I think he's being cruel and selfish.



Completely agree. Someone I know kept their blind and deaf dog alive until one day she collapsed on the floor unable to get up. We then rushed her to the vet and had her put down. Poor thing couldn't have had much quality of life n her last few years. And now their other dog is ridden with arthritis and blind and they keep saying he's fine when clearly all he does is sit in an air conditioned room 24/7 sleeping. 

That's another discussion altogether though. 

Yes, I'd still find it cruel to have a cockroach in a small bag, alive, as a souvenir. As Annie stated, if something must be killed do it quickly. Don't make and living being suffer for your own benefit. 




Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## Specks (Mar 17, 2012)

akarsha said:


> My signature? Hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought those electric rods were now illegal?



illegal ?
They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
God knows what we would do without it
a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 17, 2012)

Specks said:


> illegal ?
> They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
> God knows what we would do without it
> a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
> we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000



Interesting......


----------



## longqi (Mar 17, 2012)

I used to visit China every year for at least 2 or 3 months each time

Yes there is loads of what we consider animal cruelty there
Most of this cruelty is easily found in the cities
Yes there are loads of people just like us who love animals too
Most of the animal lovers are also in the cities

Very similar things can be found throughout Central and South America Africa Asia and Eastern Europe

We are very fortunate to have been raised in countries where organisations like RSPCA exist and helped teach us from a young age that cruelty to any animals is wrong
Those countries have never had the benefit of that

Is it wrong??
In our eyes it is very wrong but only education will help stop this


----------



## Stompsy (Mar 17, 2012)

Specks said:


> illegal ?
> They are the most efficient and humane way to make a pig unconscious so that it can be bled out and die before its even awake
> God knows what we would do without it
> a bolt gun would be ridiculous and shooting just expensive
> we only do 150-200 pigs a day but other places do about 2000



Ahh, sorry! I was actually thinking of the bolt guns. 


Erbitting the oarth.


----------



## JUNGLE-JAK (Mar 17, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> Live dogs dragged behind boats as shark bait...all sorts of horrible, horrible things happen to animals in these dreadful countries....thankfully there are people in the world who try and help. Has anyone watched the show about Luke Gamble the pommie vet who goes all over the world trying to teach people how to take care of their animals and he tries to rescue animals too.....so much to be done. But then there are people who say....what about the abused and starving peoples of the world, shouldn't they come before animals......sadly the world will never be perfect, and I seriously doubt any of these problems will be completely solved....it's a sad world we live in. :cry:




he has the same last name as me, and any way there is so many places like that its not funny, and i agree this is a sad world


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

slim6y said:


> So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....
> 
> Where do you draw the line?
> 
> ...





slimy you given examples of other animals being stuffed into sealed air-tight bags and you've asked if our standards are the same for every animal...

Well perhaps I will show a better excample of what else they are consealing in these little bags with no air:

View attachment 243047


Lizards, yes reptiles (you know, what this site represents)!!!... And they get done as key-rings and in different colours. The Chinese wear them around on their necks, on their keys, attached to their bags, and they do it so proudly... Is that a better example for you slimy?

And if you go to their website: Live Turtles, Fish, Salamanders Sealed In Plastic Bags to Make Living Key Chains in China | Candace Calloway Whiting - seattlepi.com You'll also see fish in the bags... has my standards changed, or do I think it's any less cruel... NO IT HASN'T! Any animal, no matter how small or insignificant you may feel it is, I will never accept it and will fight it all the way. IMO... animals have got more right to live then what we do!


----------



## longqi (Mar 17, 2012)

I just opened an old diary

Shanghai Sept 8th 87

Only a few ks from my hotel is a garden
Absolutely wonderful place before the crowds infect it
so I sneak over there before dawn and wander inside with the workers long before the gates are open
Just before the side gate with the dragons there is a small group
A well dressed man holds the leash to an alert and shiny dog
Smaller than a shepard but similar in build
Such peace inside these walls
Seclusion is not easy to find in this huge city but in the corners you can be anywhere you would ever want to be
Dawn sneaks up on the night here
Just a change in the grey for most Shangai people have never really seen a dawn
where colours and light explode to offer something different every day
Time wanders through as I wander around there
Leaving as the crowds arrive
Outside the side gate
with the dragons
the well dressed man rolls a piece of meat into the fresh skin and puts it in his bag
Two alleys cats fight over the scraps and pools of congealing blood
Perhaps they should notice
they too are looking alert and shiny


----------



## PythonLegs (Mar 17, 2012)

slim6y said:


> So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....
> 
> Where do you draw the line?
> 
> ...



Unlike turtles, lizards, cockroaches..or anything else for sale in 'slow death' bags in china, cane toads are a harmful, invasive species whose very existence is damaging to our eco system. I also doubt anybody pops a cane toad into a bag of herbal oil and watches it starve to death for a few weeks.



thomasbecker said:


> Maybe you guys should read Genesis 1:26 just to remind yourselves.



Maybe You should read Pythonlegs 69:69, and go take your medication.


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

If we were to stick a small child into a small bag full of coloured herbal water with just enough air to last for a month or two, until they died the most slow and painful death possible by suffocation, what do you think would happen?... There would be public out-rage, front page headings, world-wide media, there would be a man hunt put out on your head. 

What if it was your child, your mum, sister or friend, what would you do? You would scream murder, you would have the person that did that to your loved one trialed, hung, put away for life never to see the day of light again... wouldn't you?

Who have these animals got to scream out for them? Were are their parents, sisters, brothers, family or friends screaming out for their safe release back home to were they belong? There is no one, they can't be heard, they don't speak english and unfortunately they are ruled by humans and in some cases rely on us for their protection and well-being... 

So many animals in this world die a slow, painful and silent death and I can't understand for the life of me why human beings don't hear them or give them the same respect they would for their own loved ones!


----------



## HerperBaz (Mar 17, 2012)

For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..

How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal. 

At least with the asians they eat all animals and dont contradict their own views on cruelty. 

PIG HEADED WESTERN SOCIETY WILL BE THE DEATH OF HUMANITY


----------



## dihsmaj (Mar 17, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> Indeed the very thought of things can be upsetting, that's why I didn't try to find out about it...and sounds like I was right not to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I believe you're referring to me? I was actually being serious, I didn't think anyone totally believed Genesis.


slim6y said:


> So... Let me play the devil's advocate for a while here....
> 
> Where do you draw the line?
> 
> ...



insects don't feel pain.


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Mar 17, 2012)

dihsmaj said:


> insects don't feel pain.



And your an insect are you? When was the last time you asked an insect if it felt pain or not?


----------



## dihsmaj (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm not gonna argue about this


----------



## slim6y (Mar 17, 2012)

PythonLegs said:


> Unlike turtles, lizards, cockroaches..or anything else for sale in 'slow death' bags in china, cane toads are a harmful, invasive species whose very existence is damaging to our eco system. I also doubt anybody pops a cane toad into a bag of herbal oil and watches it starve to death for a few weeks.



It wouldn't matter if the tortoises were an invasive, harmful species - the point I was making was, quite often, as humans, we give the cute widdle tortoise the benefit above the ugly toad... Or the roach...

My point wasn't about the invasiveness, the harmfulness or even the amount of damage these animals do. Possums are really cute (those big eyes, bushy tails, they make my heart go all gooey) - but I hate them in NZ! They're destructive, invasive pests... But I wouldn't be putting them in a bag and selling them. Nor smashing them with golf clubs. A bullet is usually all it takes, but we don't let them suffer. 

The point is clear... Some people have double standards - and I've brought this up in a number of topics, especially cane toad ones. Despite the toad being incredibly ugly and dangerously toxic, doesn't give people the right to torture it....

What would annoy me about having this key chain with a turtle (or tortoise or what ever it is) attached - I'm forever losing my keys, how much harder will they be to find if they keep walking away?


----------



## Australis (Mar 17, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> An observation I've made...... someone mentioned the Bible and God creating man to be master over animals...or something like that. Next thing I see is someone putting the person down for what they believe...yet the person who believes does not put the non believer down. I don't think it's fair, that a either person has the right to put down the other, we are all entitled to believe what we like about life without being put down by anyone else.



And then by the same token the people wanting animals in keyrings are entitled believe its fine with out being put down for it by anyone right ?

I disagree, i think everyone's beliefs should be open to challenge. 



slim6y said:


> So... What you're saying is... A human and a tortoise are on the same 'line' so to speak - but most of you will happily flyspray a roach to oblivion... I wonder if tortoises were pests would we trap them like mice?



Exactly..




Xtreme_Reptiles said:


> Lizards, yes reptiles (you know, what this site represents)!!!...



Those lizards look a lot like amphibians...:lol:


----------



## longqi (Mar 17, 2012)

sebothere said:


> For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..
> 
> How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.
> 
> ...



while it is ok to eat all animals it is not ok to either kill them slowly or with cruelty
western society does have a lot to answer for but so does every other society on earth


----------



## PythonLegs (Mar 17, 2012)

slim6y said:


> It wouldn't matter if the tortoises were an invasive, harmful species - the point I was making was, quite often, as humans, we give the cute widdle tortoise the benefit above the ugly toad... Or the roach...
> 
> My point wasn't about the invasiveness, the harmfulness or even the amount of damage these animals do. Possums are really cute (those big eyes, bushy tails, they make my heart go all gooey) - but I hate them in NZ! They're destructive, invasive pests... But I wouldn't be putting them in a bag and selling them. Nor smashing them with golf clubs. A bullet is usually all it takes, but we don't let them suffer.
> 
> The point is clear... Some people have double standards - and I've brought this up in a number of topics, especially cane toad ones. Despite the toad being incredibly ugly and dangerously toxic, doesn't give people the right to torture it....



A golf club to the head isn't torture, it's almost instantaneous..a helluva lot more humane than the other alternatives, IMO. No, one of the alternatives is not shooting. I can just see the headlines if I went out there and pumped 100 000 rounds into the toads in the street. Invasiveness may not have been your point, but it has to be a consideration- when you've seen the impact they have log term first hand, you're happy to see them go any way at all...but no, torture is never acceptable.

Anyway, it's raining, I might go practice my swing. FORE.


----------



## Trench (Mar 17, 2012)

grannieannie said:


> An observation I've made...... someone mentioned the Bible and God creating man to be master over animals...or something like that. Next thing I see is someone putting the person down for what they believe...yet the person who believes does not put the non believer down. I don't think it's fair, that a either person has the right to put down the other, we are all entitled to believe what we like about life without being put down by anyone else.




Thanks so much for the support grannieannie 
I haven to believe in God and it realy gets me when people mock us and abuse us
It is just as bad abusing a dog or cat or reptile, and they are all againest that,


----------



## PythonLegs (Mar 17, 2012)

sebothere said:


> For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..
> 
> How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.
> 
> ...



Western society, eh? I wonder how the Tibetans, Sudanese, Israelis and the dead at Choeung Ek feel about that.

And don't get me started on the 'meat is murder' rubbish. I'll discuss how humans aren't 'meant' to eat meat when you show me a cave painting of a celery hunt.



Trench said:


> Thanks so much for the support grannieannie
> I haven to believe in God and it realy gets me when people mock us and abuse us
> It is just as bad abusing a dog or cat or reptile, and they are all againest that,



Nah, not the same- dogs and cats dont quote bible verse as a way of proving their puerile arguments. If they did, they'd be out in the rain, too.


----------



## Specks (Mar 17, 2012)

sebothere said:


> For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..
> 
> How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.
> 
> ...




ok sebothere,
do you work in a slaughter house or have ever been in one while they are operating ?
Australia has tight regulations on how things are done and it is done well
The suffering may be for a mere second of the inital shock but then unconsciousness proceeds immediatly 

In relatation to the person question the bolt gun,
With us it is used for cattle and its just a explosive cap that drives a metal bolt into the back of the head an immediate death/unconsciousness follows


----------



## Trench (Mar 17, 2012)

e.eT_To.O said:


> I disagree, i think everyone's beliefs should be open to challenge.



Challenge yes but abuse is not a challenge it is abuse, a challenge is asking questions and seeing if that persons faith is consistent with the evidence.



thomasbecker said:


> Maybe you guys should read Genesis 1:26 just to remind yourselves.
> 
> I'm not saying that what is happening to animals around the world isn't cruel, I totally agree with you but in terms of livestock they are to benefit us but how we are dealing with some of the livestock is cruelty. It will continue to do so because no government around the world gives a stuff about animal rights and prefer to spend millions of dollars on new cars and big planes.



I agree 100% with you


----------



## jedi_339 (Mar 17, 2012)

I've eaten possum before, was tasty enough, a bit tough because it didn't die in the most ideal circumstances.

I'd give Panda a try if I was in the right place at the right time and it was available.........it's all meat and I'm an omnivore, I doubt I'd eat Koala, I imagine it'd just taste like those eucalyptus lollies ughh



sebothere said:


> For those of you that are being so blatantly naive about animal cruelty on all levels, I ask you this one and simple question..
> 
> How can you possibly think it is alright or humane to slaughter a cow/chicken/sheep etc. and eat it (might i add that this extent of cruelty is happening in Aus. slaughter houses) but if offered something that you consider cute such as a possum/cat/koala/panda you will refuse and act astonished that someone could harm such an animal.
> 
> ...


----------



## HerperBaz (Mar 17, 2012)

longqi said:


> while it is ok to eat all animals it is not ok to either kill them slowly or with cruelty
> western society does have a lot to answer for but so does every other society on earth




As a strong believer in vegetarianism I could beg to differ. Probably best to not get started on what I believe to be right and wrong with this matter. :s


----------



## littlemay (Mar 17, 2012)

sebothere said:


> As a strong believer in vegetarianism I could beg to differ.



I'm genuinely interested on your views on why it is not ok to eat animals. I'm not meaning to attack your views, i'm just curious with how you reconcile this with our naturally being omnivorous?


----------



## slim6y (Mar 17, 2012)

Would a vegetarian then not use petrol? I'm fairly sure oil comes from dead animals....

That aside... 

Clubbing a toad and killing a toad are two completely different things - but that's another thread....

This thread is about bagging animals... And my thoughts on that are pretty straight up - it shouldn't be done...

But unfortunately, my saying my piece did not save a turtle...


----------



## HerperBaz (Mar 17, 2012)

*Joaquin Phoenix - "Earthlings"
Great doco on animal cruelty *Earthlings (part 1) HQ - YouTube

*Specks this is a video for you and anyone else that thinks that such cruelty doesn't happen in our country. *

Extreme animal cruelty in Australia *WARNING EXTREMELY GRAPHIC IMAGES OF ANIMAL CRUELTY* - YouTube

I'm sure I could write a great response in which you would all rattle on about how I'm so incredibly wrong and how humans were "made" to eat meat, that it has been happening since the start of man kind etc etc. 
However this will just work me up as I am a vegetarian born and raised just like you were raised on meat so you can understand my strong belief on this issue. 

All I will say is each to their own however this thread is about being cruel to animals not eating them. 

Seb


----------



## littlemay (Mar 17, 2012)

I have seen this film, but i was interested in your views personally. I don't think the implication behind 'you would all rattle on about how I'm so incredibly wrong and how humans were "made" to eat meat, that it has been happening since the start of man kind' was really necessary... As i said, i was simply interested in your personal views.


----------



## HerperBaz (Mar 17, 2012)

I have been hassled since day one about it.. 

I believe it's not about what we were made to do but what we as individuals believe is right. 
and for me this is not supporting in anyway the death of animals to be consumed. When people comment back with things like..
"show me a cave painting of a celery hunt." 
This is just ridiculous, they hunted for their food and ate what needed to be consumed. There was not mass slaughter and torture going on. 

But littlemay for me it's just about the necessity to kill these animals, I am happy and healthy living off my vegetables, I just can't see how anyone can justify the need to kill these creatures. I COULD go into it but at this time I can't really be pooped to be honest.


----------



## Darlyn (Mar 17, 2012)

How do the lizards survive in fluid?


----------



## Australis (Mar 17, 2012)

Darlyn said:


> How do the lizards survive in fluid?



By not being lizards at all i think


----------



## grannieannie (Mar 17, 2012)

*Animal cruelty in China...*

dihsmaj......No.....I don't believe Genesis....as being literal.


----------



## Wrightpython (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes whay they and many other people are doing is cruel but it is unstoppable, therefore needless for someone to show it, killing of any animal unless for reasonable cause is wrong and uncalled for. 
Reasonable cause being food, medicine, pest and disease eradication and pleasure/recreation etc. 
I live on a farm and as such life and death is looked at different to city folk, if im hungry and the rooster crows at 4 in the morning he becomes dinner.
If an animal gets hurt or injured and can nolonger perform there farm duty they are shot and eaten by ourselves or the other animals.
I breed horses, i think there lovely kind natured animals easily named because they have personality and they taste good. I have eaten snakes after they have died for different reasons, road kill etc. They taste awsome as well. 
As for sheep and cattle, if we didnt eat them they wouldnt be in the world, same as the mice and rats you feed your snakes or are the vegies going to vegetarianise there snakes. If an animal is bred and reared in humane circumstances and is slaughtered and butchered humanly then no one should feel guilty about eating it, it has forfilled its lifes work(the nourishment of others). When im dead and buried something will hopefully eat me(although it would have to wash mouth out afterwards) its the circle of life of which i am happy to be a member>


----------



## mmafan555 (Mar 19, 2012)

I see nothing wrong with this...I mean the only reason animals exist in the first place is because God thought humans would be bored being by ourselves..So he gave us a various assortment of million of creatures (including millions of insects and microscopic things) to lord over and do our bidding...Unfortunately some of these animals like Crocodiles are getting out of line and are going against there god ordained rulers...So we need to teach them a lesson and machine gun them into submission...Grace of God be with us!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## disintegratus (Mar 19, 2012)

nagini-baby said:


> i hate people. give me an animal any day. atleast they know what they truly are. they no they are warm or cold. hungry or thirsty. mother or father. they only kill when necessesary. i have never seen a cruel animal. a sadistic animal or a selfish animal.



Have you ever watched a cat play with its prey until it dies, only to abandon it without eating it?


----------



## viciousred (Mar 19, 2012)

Trench said:


> Thanks so much for the support grannieannie
> I haven to believe in God and it realy gets me when people mock us and abuse us
> It is just as bad abusing a dog or cat or reptile, and they are all againest that,



Not even gonna go there....


----------



## mmafan555 (Mar 19, 2012)

disintegratus said:


> Have you ever watched a cat play with its prey until it dies, only to abandon it without eating it?



Yea psychopathic traits are EXTREMELY common in nature....And also much more common in Humans than most people would like to admit (just look at history...Men more so than Women)

I don't think Humans are any worse/better than any other animal on this earth...because we ARE animals....And I don't think humans are any more or less wasteful/cruel/selfish than any other creature either...We just have the mental capacity to be wasteful and destructive and selfish on a much larger and more destructive scale...A bear can fish for Salmon...decide to eat only 2 percent of the fish and then wastefully discard it with out a care in the world...Humans with our superior brainpower can fish out an entire ecosystem....dump toxic waste into the ocean etc....Both actions are equally as wasteful but we have the mental capacity to do it on a much larger and more destructive scale...But we are no worse or better than the rest of the animal kingdom in this regard at all...If any other animal species had the brain power that we do they would be every bit as destructive.


I do think parasitic organisms are the lowest of the low through....Their entire evolutionary history is just based on exploiting an animal for their gain....They are way worse than any free living organism.


----------

