# Breeding Rats For Food.



## Jewly (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi all,

I had been planning on breeding my rats for pets and selling them back to the pet shops to fund my frozen rats for my snakes but I've now decided to breed for food. A number of pet shops told me they would give me $5-$6 for each rat but when I came to sell them, I was only offered $2-3 which doesn't make it worth it. I ended up taking that for my first lot just to get rid of them because by that stage they were far too big for my snakes to eat. 

I have one female about to pop any minute and I'll probably take half the babies and cull them when they are a couple of weeks old and I'll let her raise the rest and sell them as pets. I'm doing that because I just couldn't take all of them off the poor mum and leave her with none. I also don't want to have to cull them myself but I have found a very experienced person who will do it for me. It's not the killing part that bothers me, it's the fact that I hate mucking around with gas and I'd be worried I was going to blow myself up or cause the poor babies to suffer if I didn't do it right.

I'm also doing this cause I'm so sick of having to search high and low for frozen rats cause a lot of the pet shops run out all the time.

How many others breed rats for their snakes?

Cheers,

Julie


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## Dave (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm about to breed my rats now.. The shop near me sells rats and mice for terrible prices..

Guess how much a pinkie mice is?

_*2 dollars*_ :shock:


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## Shanno (Dec 17, 2008)

i breed rats and mice it is a lot cheaper. 
i will post some pic of my set up in a few days


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## Jewly (Dec 17, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> I'm about to breed my rats now.. The shop near me sells rats and mice for terrible prices..
> 
> Guess how much a pinkie mice is?
> 
> _*2 dollars*_ :shock:


 

OMG that is ridiculous.

How many rats do you have?

I have 2 males and 3 females at the moment. I held back one female from my last litter cause she is just gorgeous. She is silver and white and I have a plain brown one (she's about to give birth) and I have a brown and white one. I will also keep back another female from this litter so I can have 4 females and that way I can have 2 pregnant and 2 resting at any one time.


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## Dave (Dec 17, 2008)

4 females 2 males..

both males are white with striping down the middle, one brown striping other grey, I have one BIG female that is the same and the other 3 are brown. I've just put them together 



Jewly said:


> OMG that is ridiculous.
> 
> How many rats do you have?
> 
> I have 2 males and 3 females at the moment. I held back one female from my last litter cause she is just gorgeous. She is silver and white and I have a plain brown one (she's about to give birth) and I have a brown and white one. I will also keep back another female from this litter so I can have 4 females and that way I can have 2 pregnant and 2 resting at any one time.


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## Justdriftnby (Dec 17, 2008)

I have found it to be alot cheaper in all, problem I have found is keeping up with large 250g+ rats for my bigger snakes, We have 6 female rats serviced by 2 males, also have 8 tubs that contain about 300+ mice at the moment(uding babies, Will have mass kull next weekend.


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## mis_gmh (Dec 17, 2008)

i currently have been breeding. I have 3females and 1male. Females are beautiful, they are white(albino), bright orange hooded with ruby eyes and a brown hooded with patches all over the white so hopefully ill have some nice babys out of these. So far ive only bred my albino and ive kept 2 berkshire male and female.

Also if anyone could give me some advice as my albino had babys 9weeks ago and has been with my silver supersize male since but she isnt showing any signs of pregnancy. Is this anything to worry about? They have definately mated but im woried she cant have babys anymore. I was told they can have babys every3 weeks.

kind regards
laura


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## Jewly (Dec 17, 2008)

One of my males is cream with the red eyes. Not sure who impregnated the female that is about to pop cause I put her in with both males but it will be interesting to see the babies. 

Sorry can't give any advice about your albino girl. When I put my girl in with the boys about 3-4 weeks ago she must have got pregnant within days cause she's about full term now and getting so big. I have all my girls in together but when they're about due, I put them in a cage on their own that I call the 'Birthing Suite'...lol

Here's a good site about rat reproduction...

http://www.ratfanclub.org/repro.html


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## melgalea (Dec 17, 2008)

jewly, ur in brisbane, u should buy your rats of barry (centralian11) he is amazing, i have been going to him for a very long time now, and have never ever once had a prob with any of his stuff. plus they are heaps cheaper then a pet shop. u should check him out on this site. cheers
mel


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## Jewly (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi zoocam, 

I've heard he's good so I'll check him out.

Thanks


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## mungus (Dec 18, 2008)

Yep, breeding them is the way to go.
Been breeding my own mice for a few years now [ due to breeding my snakes, they need heaps & heaps of fuzzies etc ].
Just started breeding my own rats.
Mate gave me 5 females and 1 male [ all females were already pregnant..............lol - top mate ]
All had gave birth to between 10 -12 babaies.
Only lost 1 baby [ ended up with 56 weaners ]
No female ate their young.
Just bought 50 large weaners [ live ] for $90.
I grow them to the size I want then cull them, cheaper this way than paying adult rat prices.
When you only have 1 or 2 snakes to feed, buying them from pet shops wont hurt the hip pocket as much,
but when you have a couple of dozen hungry snakes, a $ here and there adds up very quickly.
Cheers,
Aleks.


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## Miss B (Dec 18, 2008)

I started off with 10 rats (8 female, 2 male) about six weeks ago.

Now I've got around 100 of the little bastards, with several more litters on the way :shock:

Had to do a mass cull over the weekend, freezer is now well and truly stocked. A $30 bag of Bio-mare cubes lasts bloody ages, and I get an endless supply of shredded paper from a relative. Breeding rats is ridiculously cheap.


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## blackthorn (Dec 18, 2008)

On last count I think I have 19 females(about 5 of those are yet to breed, but almost old enough) and four males. Most of the females are housed in pairs, and I just cycle the males through the female's tubs. 

Also have two mini colonies of mice, one colony of super mice and one colony of normal females with a male super mouse. Both have about 7 females to one male. I mostly cull the mice as pinkies or fuzzies for all the hatchies.


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## cooper123 (Dec 18, 2008)

how long does a rat last in the freezer?


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## Snake_Whisperer (Dec 18, 2008)

Miss B said:


> I started off with 10 rats (8 female, 2 male) about six weeks ago.
> 
> Now I've got around 100 of the little bastards, with several more litters on the way :shock:
> 
> Had to do a mass cull over the weekend, freezer is now well and truly stocked. A $30 bag of Bio-mare cubes lasts bloody ages, and I get an endless supply of shredded paper from a relative. Breeding rats is ridiculously cheap.


 
Hey Miss B, are Bio-mare cubes the same as "lab blocks"? I have been trying to streamline my feeding, at the moment my mix is far too involved trying to ensure proper nutrition. Where do you get them from?

24 females, 6 males, 60 babies at the moment. I guess they breed more over the summer!! I have about 8 months worth of snake food in the freezer now so guess i may start selling 'em off!


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## Crazy_Snake08 (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm getting into breeding rats as well now. I can't keep up with the prices!!! And like you say JEWLY, whenever you go to the pet shop, they're always out of the size you want or there are harldy any left which means you have to go back after a short while (depending on the frequency at which you feed your snakes and how many you got).

If anyone else is pursing this, Here's two links that GRUMPYTHESNAKE got for me about breeding racks and set ups, etc.
(1) http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/rat-breeding-setups-89394
(2) http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml

Hope it helps some of you out there...

-Settle


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## Jewly (Dec 18, 2008)

I just have my rats in rat cages at the moment. The 2 boys are in one, and the 3 girls are in the other but one of the females is only about 8 weeks old. I then have a 3rd cage where I put the mum's who are about to give birth. I will have to get another one soon, if I want to have 2 pregnant at the same time. I keep mine on Breeders Choice but might have to consider putting them on shredded paper to keep the costs down and I can get an endless supply from work.

I thought my girl Layla would have popped last night but she's still going strong. Maybe tonight will be the night. I'm a bit of a sooky lala at times with my pets. I took Layla up to my bedroom the other night to keep an eye on her, seeing as this is her first pregnancy, but she drove me nuts all night cause she kept drinking all the time. Maybe she's not pregnant at all....maybe it's fluid retention..lol


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## swaddo (Dec 18, 2008)

Hi Jewly

I have just started to do this myself. I build some racks (very much like the ones that Dickyknee makes) and they look like they'll do the job fine. They are quite simple to make (I've written yet another step by step guide here) but if building isn't your thing, then I've seen what Dicky makes and they look pretty good.

I am using an Edstrom watering system connected to a 20L plastic tub, makes water refills very easy, and i use sawdust in the bottom of the tubs (to keep any smell to a minimum) and some shredded paper for nesting material.

Currently keeping them 2F:1M and hoping for a population explosion in the very near future


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## Justdriftnby (Dec 18, 2008)

This is an old pic but shows how easy it can be, I have added an extra rack now and I always keep 1 tub empty so move mice and rats around when cleaning. 

http://s495.photobucket.com/albums/...ion=view&current=RIMG0098.jpg&t=1229596415522

I have been making these for others and get good feedback from them, if you are in Vic and want info and prices please PM me I am only too happy to help.


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## grimace256 (Dec 18, 2008)

if you search killing a rat in youtube it'll show u how to kill them without using gas, and they're fresh as!!!!

heres link: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=n85RK12Meu8


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## Miss B (Dec 18, 2008)

akira said:


> Hey Miss B, are Bio-mare cubes the same as "lab blocks"? I have been trying to streamline my feeding, at the moment my mix is far too involved trying to ensure proper nutrition. Where do you get them from?
> 
> 24 females, 6 males, 60 babies at the moment. I guess they breed more over the summer!! I have about 8 months worth of snake food in the freezer now so guess i may start selling 'em off!



I don't think so? Bio-mare is a horse feed, I buy it from the local produce.

I think it's about $30 for a 20kg bag.


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## Hsut77 (Dec 18, 2008)

Miss B said:


> I don't think so? Bio-mare is a horse feed, I buy it from the local produce.
> 
> I think it's about $30 for a 20kg bag.



We have just moved to feeding a mix of Bio Mare, Barastoc Rat food, Pasta and Good quality dog food, the Rats love the bio mare, first to be eaten then the Dog food, pasta and rat block last!! Seem to be getting better numbers with this mix but time will tell.

Link to my rat rack (s). A little different than the other but same principle..

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/other-animals/rat-farm-94724

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/rat-rack-built-duw-78590


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## Recharge (Dec 18, 2008)

Breed them too, have about 200 (estimate) in 2x6ft cages
it's fine buying them from breeders in Brisbane, but there are often problems with supply due to demand being so big.

the more breeders the better, so as not to have some of the severe shortages we've had in the last 2 years.


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## dailyskin (Jan 6, 2009)

Luckily, with only one snake, the cost isn't a problem, but if I had several, I think breeding is the go. ALSO - consider buying a pair of Hopping Mice. They are native, and they are expensive ($200+ a pair), but they breed at a more steady pace (regular litters of 3-4, gestation of 32 days, sexual maturity at 60 days).

Not only are they HEAPS cuter, but they are nice and native, and if you have excess, you can sell them for a fair bit live!


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## Jewly (Jan 6, 2009)

Hi dailyskin...I don't understand why you'd go for Hopper Mice when it's much cheaper to go with rats. Rats can drop litters as much as 15-20 and the gestation period is only 21-23 days.

Oh and the reason I decided to breed my own rats is because it became such a pain to find frozen rats in my area. Half the time I'd go to the pet stores and they would be sold out, or they didn't have the right size. This way I can cull at the exact size I need.


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## Saz (Jan 6, 2009)

I breed mice for food, but I couldn't do the rats, although I tried. Too intelligent and affectionate for me to kill. I'd never make a decent farmer :/ I only breed the occasional pet litter now.

Luckily as I have mainly Anteresia I don't need many rats as they are fine on mice. Breeding yourself is definitely the way to go though, my freezer is packed full.

Now I have pet rats...much to my partners disgust LMAO!


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## dailyskin (Jan 7, 2009)

Jewly said:


> Hi dailyskin...I don't understand why you'd go for Hopper Mice when it's much cheaper to go with rats. Rats can drop litters as much as 15-20 and the gestation period is only 21-23 days.


 
Hmm, for a few reasons actually:

- once you have outlaid the initial cost, they are no more expensive to breed
If you have surplus stock to your own requirements, you can raise some to maturity and sell them for $100+ each, which is a nice earner.
- I prefer to support the breeding and awareness of native animals
- They are sooooo much cuter to watch!!
- I have a (I know silly!) theory that they are better cos they are what the snake would naturally eat, being natives (I know this is silly, just a psychological thing for me!)

Also, for people with only 1 - 3 snakes, say a couple of Maccies, they produce babies at a more stable, appropriate rate for feeding, if you have a small colony, rather than ending up with 20 babies often!

BUT I totally don't think most people should, could or would do this!!! It's just a thought I was putting out there! For most, breeding rats is definately the way to go!


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## FROGGIESrCUTEo_O (Jan 7, 2009)

_*2 dollars*_ :shock:[/QUOTE]

At one shop nearby they're $3.50!:shock:


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## Snakebuster (Jan 7, 2009)

Dave94 said:


> I'm about to breed my rats now.. The shop near me sells rats and mice for terrible prices..
> 
> Guess how much a pinkie mice is?
> 
> _*2 dollars*_ :shock:




You have GOT to be kidding!!:shock::shock::shock:


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Jan 7, 2009)

FROGGIESrCUTEo_O said:


> _*2 dollars*_ :shock:


 
At one shop nearby they're $3.50!:shock:[/quote]

$3.50 :shock::shock: !!!?????

It'd be cheaper to breed your own!


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## batcho101 (Jan 7, 2009)

i'm currently breeding my rats aswell. i dont have the fancy setups as some people on here.
i have 3 males and 12 females all together in a big 4x6 foot cage with a few different hides for the babies to cuddle up in. at the moment i have about 40 pinky rats and about 20-30 at about a month old. feed them mix of scraps, charf and mixed seeds.
they never seem to fight or eat each other's young which is why i have separated any of them yet


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## misssullivan (Jan 7, 2009)

I bought 2 females and 1 male ( mice ) and one of the females turned out to be male but that one escaped and ate poison so i didnt need to worry about having 2 males to 1 female. lol 

Atm i have the same male and female and also 2 other females from a previous litter. The male is black and white and so is 1 younger female, the older female is a gorgeous gingery-grey wif pink eyes and the last female is a darker ginger-grey and white.

I keep the male seperate untill i have only 4 frozen ones left, so by the time the females have given birth i will be down to or will have just fed the last frozen one! thats only with one juvie spotted to keep happy tho.


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## batcho101 (Jan 7, 2009)

well heres some pics of my cage and the pinky's i got this morning. second lot in a week i have taken


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## dailyskin (Jan 7, 2009)

Ohhhh they are SO cute in the second piccy! Could never cull them myself!


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## Radar (Jan 7, 2009)

28 females, 4 males, all females are seperated when pregnant and raise their litters in seperate tubs, then get grown out in large wire cages (approx 1mx1m) when we need larger sizes. Breeding females get replaced once a year, this provides us with the jumbo's and ensures we always get about 10-20 in a litter. Only ever had one female kill a couple of her young, so she went straight to the freezer. At $2 a pinky up here, the setup expense and time taken to look after then rats properly is well worth it (especially when you have a few snakes to feed.


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## mis_gmh (Jan 7, 2009)

so far i have 2 breeding males, 7breeding females, 1 just gave birth this week with a tiny litter of 4 and my big girl gave bith to a huge litter of 17 yesterday. I have 3 ready to pop this week as well. 

If any one on here has any blazed or rare coloured rats for sale please let me know as i will pay $$$ for the right rattie.

kind regards
laura


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## dailyskin (Jan 8, 2009)

LOL the pet shop we get our frozen mice from also breeds designer mice for pets... And it's the same stock!

So often our feeder mice are long haired, or Manx, or rare colours haha!


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## ricky_91 (Dec 15, 2011)

go the bio mare cubes. i got 30 female and 10 males when i started i think i have about 100 females and 25 males now and i have a freezer full and I'm giving them away to friends


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## IgotFrogs (Dec 15, 2011)

wow ricky this is a very OLD thread


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## Recharge (Dec 15, 2011)

and your point frogs? it's a thread that is and will still be relevant for years to come.
tsk tsk, some people. "OMG THIS IS MORE THAN TWO DAYS OLD!! AUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!".. heh


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## Aussie-Pride (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm think about doing this myself, I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me how you cull the rats,mice as i don't really want to be feeding live??


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## Recharge (Dec 18, 2011)

the best, but expensive way is to hire a nitrogen tank from a gas distributor (you'd have to purchase a regulator yourself about $150, gas bottles are about $130 a year), get a tub set up as a gas chamber, it's the most humane way, there's no gasping response and they simply "go to sleep", but most people don't want to outlay that much money, but it's the easiest and least heartbreaking way.

the other way is simply belting them against a brick or something, it's a bit stomach churning and there's a chance you don't kill the rat, so there's a risk of damage to snake if you don't watch them eat.


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## Aussie-Pride (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks for your help, much appreciated..


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## Recharge (Dec 18, 2011)

not a problem 
it kind of comes down to scale of production, and self fortitude, if you can't stomach killing rats or mice or what ever by hand (which I wouldn't blame anyone, it's a harrowing experience I can tell you from personal experience, the first week I had nightmares, retching and nausea, it got easier and I grew the ability to distance myself, but even after several years, I still hated doing it)
then I'd suggest the gas route, sure it's expensive to start up, but if you're going to be culling a lot of animals, or squeamish, it's really the only way to go, and it's a lot easier on the conscience.

some will suggest the baking soda and vinegar rout for C02, but it's messy and cumbersome and takes quite a while to get effective (the right mix and setup)

I had a 10g bottle, it lasted more than a year, and I culled a LOT of rats, so price per rat, it's really quite reasonable (I had 2 colonies in huge 2 metre cages of about 200 rats, so I made back my costs selling back to others) 

if you're only breeding for yourself. hmm it's a toss up really, on if you can handle hand killing, or want it quick and easy without the mess.


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## wokka (Dec 18, 2011)

Recharge said:


> the best, but expensive way is to hire a nitrogen tank from a gas distributor (you'd have to purchase a regulator yourself about $150, gas bottles are about $130 a year), get a tub set up as a gas chamber, it's the most humane way, there's no gasping response and they simply "go to sleep", but most people don't want to outlay that much money, but it's the easiest and least heartbreaking way.
> 
> the other way is simply belting them against a brick or something, it's a bit stomach churning and there's a chance you don't kill the rat, so there's a risk of damage to snake if you don't watch them eat.


Most breeders i know use CO2 not Nitrogen.


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## Aussie-Pride (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks for your help, i did a bit of research and i think i know what you mean doesn't look to hard to make.. 

mini Co2 mice, rat euthanize Kit - YouTube

Of to bunnings, thanks again.


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## Recharge (Dec 18, 2011)

yes, most do, even I did.
but since retiring (due to having to move and no long being able to breed)
I've read and heard a lot for changing to nitrogen or argon.
the main reason is nitrogen or argon are an inert gas, so as animals are being suffocated due to lack of oxygen, their system doesn't react, it doesn't realise it's dying, so there's no gasping, there's no panic and there's much less (if any) suffering.
C02 on the other hand causes a massive system reaction, and creates a rather nasty death, pretty much like drowning.

but, there is still much argument about which is best, in either case, you have to use quick and high levels of gas so as not to cause undue stress.

I'm trying to find articles for and against but it's not proving easy :/ *sigh*


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## wokka (Dec 18, 2011)

I dont understand the relevence of nitrogen or argon being inert. Either way the animal is dying due to being depriced of oxygen. I haven't observed the struggle you mention when using CO2. What are the consequences of "the massive system reaction" and suffering you talk of?


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## Recharge (Dec 18, 2011)

so after much searching, I finally found a paper on the subject, and it appears that I am incorrect and that C02 is still the best gas to use
feel free to read for yourself 
Comparison of Carbon Dioxide and Argon Euthanasia: Effects on Behavior, Heart Rate, and Respiratory Lesions in Rats



> The current study is the first to demonstrate that rats euthanized with argon gas have pulmonary lesions, specifically hemorrhage into the alveoli, consistent with terminal asphyxiation. These lesions are similar to those described in rats euthanized with CO2, both in the current study and previously.8,10 In summary, we suggest that argon at a concentration sufficient to cause death is stressful to rats as a sole euthanasia agent. Although gradual filling with CO2 appears preferable to argon for euthanasia of rats, it may also cause stress prior to onset of anesthesia.



so there you go, we all learned something new today  

as to wokka, the relevance is to cause as little stress and suffering as possible, not only for the animal in question but also the person administering the termination.
having almost been killed by gas myself (glorious accident doh) your brain goes into hyper freakout mode (strangely enough) much like drowning I'm told, I'd prefer something as quick as possible, not only for myself but animals as well, maybe that's just me.


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