# Pit Bull Pup sales in Victoria.



## m.punja (Mar 26, 2010)

I know they're illegal, but I know people still breed them. We are sort of in the market for a pup at the moment and are doing stakes of research (searching for a specific bloodline). We have a legal sized pen made, plenty of room, I have a male german shephard which is desexed so there wont be any problems there. If anyone can put me onto breeders or even keepers with more knowledge about the different blood lines around we would love to make contact and meet other pitty lovers. Please email me on [email protected] Thanks for you time and please feel free to post pics of your pitty or share information or stories. 

Cheers

Punja


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## Splitmore (Mar 26, 2010)

still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'


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## whiteyluvsrum (Mar 26, 2010)

have you tried these sites?

Welcome!

Pitbulloz.com - Purebred American pitbull terrier breeders - Melbourne Australia


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## whiteyluvsrum (Mar 26, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'



he is not asking for a debate, why stir the pot?


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## Ships (Mar 26, 2010)

Just powder kegs waitin to go off


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## m.punja (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks for the link Whitey. Will look it up. Great dogs. Funny, I've seen a lot in my area owned by lots of different people, very affectionate dogs towards their owners. They do have some problems but if bought up right and you don't abuse them then they make fantastic pets.


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## AMY22 (Mar 26, 2010)

American pit bull terriers are one of 5 prescribed breeds in Australia. I don't know what the laws are in Victoria but in South Australia they are not necesarily illegal. To own a prescribed breed you need to abide by certain laws because although not every dog of this breed WILL attack, the risk higher because these dogs were bred as fighters and because of their strength they are more likely to cause serious injury. They aren't bad dogs so much, but if you choose to own one you need to be fully responsible. One thing that gets said a lot by owners is 'well my dog is fine, he's a nice dog and never hurt anybody'. Never say never. No matter how comfortable YOU are with your dog, every animal can attack. 

When owning a prescribed breed the laws include using a muzzle whenever you are in a public place, always having the dog on a lead (even when in an area where dogs are permitted off lead), and having the dog desexed. 



Good luck in your search. XxXx


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## Fantazmic (Mar 26, 2010)

AMY22 said:


> American pit bull terriers are one of 5 prescribed breeds in Australia. I don't know what the laws are in Victoria but in South Australia they are not necesarily illegal. To own a prescribed breed you need to abide by certain laws because although not every dog of this breed WILL attack, the risk higher because these dogs were bred as fighters and because of their strength they are more likely to cause serious injury. They aren't bad dogs so much, but if you choose to own one you need to be fully responsible. One thing that gets said a lot by owners is 'well my dog is fine, he's a nice dog and never hurt anybody'. Never say never. No matter how comfortable YOU are with your dog, every animal can attack.
> 
> When owning a prescribed breed the laws include using a muzzle whenever you are in a public place, always having the dog on a lead (even when in an area where dogs are permitted off lead), and having the dog desexed.
> 
> ...


 
Extremely well said Amy I couldnt have said it better myself !!
Regards

Elizabeth


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## Asharee133 (Mar 26, 2010)

Try this link http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...bt-x-pups-be-warned-extremely-cute-lol-130109 she has gorgeous ones


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## Rhysc (Mar 26, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'



Just like saying its not the parents fault they just have a bad kid. All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, it is up to the owner to ensure they have a well behaved and mannered dog, the owners are in charge, and providing you know how to care for a dog (not just physically, but mentally) there should not be an issue. Any dog that does not have the right care, and is dominant over their owner will be a dangerous dog, regardless of breed.

My Amstaff x Pitty for instance is a lovely little girl, but if i am not careful and let her get over excited, she has the potential to cause some serious damage, so I don't let it happen, so it won't. This is no different, to someone not paying attention to their child, and then having it run out in to the street, or start a fight.


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## stimsi (Mar 26, 2010)

M.Punja, I am also from Adelaide and believe you can not easily buy "PIT" brand bull terriers, HOWEVER, I do know that the American Staffy is also a "PIT" brand staffy but is considered an upmarket or show type Pit Bull, there are many different breads but if you continue to look for dogs try looking for an American Staffy ( Red Nose ) as you will find this is a polite or subtle way of advertising Pit Bull Terriers. I own a brindle girl who is just on 12 months old, she is a beautiful dog and gets along famously with our 18month old lab, we do although still watch her around smaller children as she can get a little carried away when playing with their toys but I dont believe she would intentionaly bite. I would also advise checking the owners of the dogs being sold as some people dont give a **** about what temp dog they bread they are just out for a quick buck, Happy hunting cheers.

couple quick pics from my phone of my girl


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## thals (Mar 26, 2010)

Asharee133 said:


> Try this link http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...bt-x-pups-be-warned-extremely-cute-lol-130109 she has gorgeous ones



Ta Ash, only have 2 females left though and they are crosses, just to be clear on that. Mother is a pure-bred pit and by far the best dog I've ever owned - most well behaved and has the most stable temperament by far. 

I've had her for 4 years and in all that time she has never even hinted at trying to bite or being aggressive. She only barks when she sees or hears strangers on our property, nothing more. She truly is a remarkable girl and I know I'd never own another breed again.


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## Asharee133 (Mar 26, 2010)

ah, i dont care if they are crosses x] i still think they are adorable!! lol


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## thals (Mar 26, 2010)

haha thanx so do I


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## baxtor (Mar 26, 2010)

m.punja said:


> Thanks for the link Whitey. Will look it up. Great dogs. Funny, I've seen a lot in my area owned by lots of different people, very affectionate dogs towards their owners. They do have some problems but if bought up right and you don't abuse them then they make fantastic pets.



There's a woman down here might not agree with you at the moment mark, (well she's actually in a melb hospital at the moment, may or may not lose the arm yet)
Fine for years apparently then just snapped. I would be more worried about my shepherd though.


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## Stevo2 (Mar 26, 2010)

Hope we dont see you in the news down the track...


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## licky (Mar 26, 2010)

I dont think people have to worry. Slightest indication of aggresion will end the dogs life either through needle or police bullets.
And if it lives a cuddly wuddly "protector" of the family lifestyle, chances are that it ends the dogs life in the same way.
To much hype around these dogs to give them a second chance unfortunately. To the general public, they are the snakes that pant, there fore they must "disposed of".
I feel that is long as they cant escape, and that they wear muzzels in public they will be fine.


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## Niall (Mar 26, 2010)

We have a local who comes into my work with her pit ball and she (the pit ball) is really play full and loves attention, it’s all about who and how you bring them up.
They only got the bad name from over in the USA from dog fighting and feral owners...

Good luck with the search mate, I know I will have one, one day.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Mar 27, 2010)

AMY22 said:


> American pit bull terriers are one of 5 prescribed breeds in Australia. I don't know what the laws are in Victoria but in South Australia they are not necesarily illegal.



Each council & shire has there own by laws on certain breeds of dogs, some are banned totally & some can be kepted on conditions.



stimsi said:


> I do know that the American Staffy is also a "PIT" brand staffy but is considered an upmarket or show type Pit Bull



A staffy is totally different dog to a pitty. I don't think staffys are considered to be upmarket from pittys. 
staffys are recognised by the ANKC & pittys are'nt.




Niall said:


> They only got the bad name from over in the USA from dog fighting and feral owners...



Dog fighting & feral owners are in every country including AUS not just USA.


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## cris (Mar 27, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'



They are good for dog fighting or pig hunting, im not a fan of dog fighting but i support pig hunting with dogs even though its illegal in Qld.


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## Jay84 (Mar 27, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'



It still baffles me why people are allowed to keep venomous snakes and huge pythons......... They prove themselves time and time again to be unpredictable and dangerous......

Wasn't someone just bitten on the face by a brown? There have been a couple of deaths this year in the USA of children being asphyxiated by big pythons.........

ALL ANIMALS HAVE POTENTIAL TO BE DANGEROUS. If you choose to keep any of these animals then you need to take the required precaution to avoid such things happening. Why blame it on the animal? 

We have a pit bull x staffy. He is 7 years old now and he is the puppy of my sisters dogs. He can not be trusted with our animals (chickens, birds, reptiles etc) as he does like to play a little too rough. But having said that we also have an elderly dog who he adores and also a little chihuahua!!!! All 3 dogs play amongst themselves very contently. 

Do we leave ANY of our dogs unattended with children around? NO

Do we feed ANY of our dogs while people are over? NO

Do we keep ALL of our dogs on a leash? YES

Do we have a well fenced and gated yard? YES

That is being responsible, to avoid ANYTHING happening with ANY of our dogs.



baxtor said:


> There's a woman down here might not agree with you at the moment mark, (well she's actually in a melb hospital at the moment, may or may not lose the arm yet)
> Fine for years apparently then just snapped. I would be more worried about my shepherd though.



As for these dogs being aggressive...... if there were accurate stats that show dog attacks by breed you will find it is mainly small dogs as the offenders. How many of you have been bitten or snapped at by a big dog? I myslef have always been a dog fan, have owned a few, and have friends and family with dogs. I can honestly say i have NEVER been snapped at by a large breed. How many of you know of small dogs who are snappy? Growl at u, bite? Oh but thats ok cos they are cute when they have their bad little tempers. 

It is just a shame that when these larger breeds on occasion do turn, the damage they cause is extreme compared to ALL those little dogs with attitude that bite people everyday!


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## Flaviruthless (Mar 27, 2010)

Seeing as it's turning into a debate, the only dog that has ever bitten me was a chihuahua, so well said Jay84.


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## cris (Mar 27, 2010)

Rahni29 said:


> Seeing as it's turning into a debate, the only dog that has ever bitten me was a chihuahua, so well said Jay84.



:lol: did you boot it and feed it to something?

If the thread starts as i know its illegal but, can i still get something illegal? Its obviously going to turn into a debate before it gets removed. Especially considering some granny got her arm ripped off by one recently.

Its a bit like saying i know smoking copious amounts of ganja isnt legal but where a can i get some? (hypothetical question) where the hell is Jah? :lol:


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## Flaviruthless (Mar 27, 2010)

Hahaha cris - I only wish I'd had my shepherd then, she would have loved a tiny treat!


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## SouthSydney (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with Rahni and Jay. The only dogs that have been agressive towards me and been about to bite or have bitten, have been small, toy, or miniature breeds... Never large breeds, and rarely medium breeds. 
Its all about taking appropriate precautions to make sure your dog can't get out and attack the general public etc. (which are strangers, who, are nearly always the ones the dogs have been trained to warn off their property and prevent from entering their property - possibly as a preventative measure taken by owners for burglars, unwanted visitors etc)

It really peeves me off the whole "its the breed, not the owner or how it's raised" debate/argument... We use to breed Rottweilers for years! And they, by far have been the best dogs we've ever owned! There are very few dogs I'd own after them (and I'd only ever own large breeds after seeing the mass amounts of aggressive little dogs)... And never had a single problem with aggression or anything... Yet they were the ones always in the News, and getting bad wraps and being taken from the Kennel Club Registry and made illegal etc. 

Kinda glad the heat has lifted a bit off them recently (sucks that its gone onto Pitbulls instead though), but still severely annoyed at how you never ever see aggressive little ****z-something dogs etc in the news being banned or put down "coz they're just too cute and fluffy!"  Most little dogs I've come across have many many and severe behavioural problems, they're always spoilt and temperamental, intolerant and aggressive like little brat children with no discipline who get toys when they've been bad...(Like one of my youngest cousins :evil: )
I wish all the aggressive little dogs that bite at your ankles and stuff would be taken into account when they do their banning/illegalisation and killing of breeds. Or atleast show some kind of statistic on it, so people can see that the big guys arent the bad guys, its not their fault they're bigger...and a bigger target.... I bet if you looked deeper into each of the cases broadcasted on the news, you will find that it wasnt completely the dogs fault, but infact much to do with human error/stupidity. 

Sure there are the odd exception cases, but its no different to owning any snake! People still get bitten, no one hears about python bites unless they've killed and eaten or constricted to death a person, yet elapids get plastered all over the news every second week if/when they bite a person (even if it doesnt kill anyone)! And they definately dont eat people whole! 
I know, with my snakes, the little ones are a lot more nervous and defensive and bite a hell of a lot more than the bigger ones... I have been bitten more times than I can count by pythons, yet nothing in the news about it... 

I dont think its right that if you own a "dangerous breed" of dog, that every single one sold/owned should be desexed... That is how extinction of the breed happens people! (Which is probably ultimately what the government wants, but yeh...) 

I wish you luck in your search Mark! It will only get harder and harder to source them! (Which I'm dreading)

Sorry for getting a little off-track and digressing a bit lol.


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## Flaviruthless (Mar 27, 2010)

BadNewsSham - the little crosses are called *****s for a reason lol


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## Flaviruthless (Mar 27, 2010)

Actually, I remember reading a study the other day that showed that Maltese dogs were responsible for the most attacks (I believe it was in NSW but I could be wrong). I am of the belief that some people think that just because it is small it doesn't need to be trained because it can be picked up and moved etc. Some people are just scared of big dogs, the way some people are just scared of snakes. It takes education about dogs and snakes and unfortunately the only education most people are receiving is from the tv (these days anyway) where the only time you usually hear about a dog is when it has attacked someone - trial by media. And I know that some breeds are bred to be more vicious than others but those are generally the breeds that attract silly people, which just ends badly (how often have you heard of a "tough guy" with a maltese?). When good people buy good dogs and treat them well and train them, there is USUALLY no problem.


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## cris (Mar 27, 2010)

BadNewsSham said:


> I
> It really peeves me off the whole "its the breed, not the owner or how it's raised" debate/argument... We use to breed Rottweilers for years! And they, by far have been the best dogs we've ever owned!



Yes, rottis are awesome dogs. That said they can get big enough to be harmful to an adult human (well a weak one anyway), but they would usually need to earn the harm 

If rotties ever get banned i will get an rotti X african boerboel :lol:


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 27, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'


 
Aggression to humans is a completely separate trait from
aggression towards other dogs

Unless very poorly bred or trained to attack humans through abusive methods,
pit Bulls are by nature very good with people.


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## mrkos (Mar 27, 2010)

cris said:


> They are good for dog fighting or pig hunting, im not a fan of dog fighting but i support pig hunting with dogs even though its illegal in Qld.


 
a lot of hunters will tell you the pure pitbulls arent a good dog for hunting they seem to have a mind of their own and struggle to work in a team i think they have a higher intelligence than other breeds of dogs in that department most of your good pig dogs have a bit of pitty bred into them purely for jaw power. My brother breeds american pitbulls and american bulldogs so ive had a lot of dealings with lots of them all i can say is one dog , one owner, if raised correctly you wont get a more loyal, loving animal but watch them with other dogs if they fight and arent broken apart in quickly you will be up for expansive vet bills or possibly lose one of your or another persons animal. Just remember even dogs that live together and are friends for several years will turn on eachother at times and if a pitty is involved there will only be one outcome. As with kids i dot think you can trust any dog unsupervised, however a well trained and raised pitbull will play and gaurd family members as well as any german shepherd, or conventional gaurd dog


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## unique (Mar 27, 2010)

m.punja - you remind me of my Neighbour when he wanted one just like you do ,kept saying everything that you are saying...its the media, its how you raise a dog ect ect ,they are illegal but i don't care.

just up the road from me ,this guy owned a nice red nose pitty ,he got her as a pup...the dog was really friendly ,he had a specially made cage, he kept telling me that its how you raise it and treat it ect ect every time i went up there the dog was fine, he loved it , i was really interested as i was planning on getting one of the dogs from one of the litters when it was older and had pups.

after 2 years nothing had went wrong ,best dog he ever had. one day he was putting food in a bowl ,it started eating he gave it a pat on its side , it bit his hand and wouldn't let go for a short period of time. he needed stitches and his tendons in his hands aren't the same any more.

The dog was great, brought up around kids never showed any signs of aggression.


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## AM Pythons (Mar 27, 2010)

as an ex-owner of an APBT i have seen there 'good' side & there bad.. i had a beautiful boy i loved, his dad was australian wieght pulling champion 3 years in a row, had papers plus extra papers that traced his line 6 gens back to america, but it all went wrong one day when the local police tried to do a 'search' in a local park one day, i understand i look 'ruff' with a big dog & all, they had there reasons i guess..but all it took was one of the officers to get to close..but i will never know what set him off, he attacked & bit this officer (female) right on the left breast & then went after her, she had to climb a tree to get away... the dog was put down. a expensive court case followed.. large fines.. ive never owned another dog since & wont till i have a property i can keep one.. be careful ppl as i wouldnt wish this on anyone..


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 27, 2010)

Do pitbulls bite more people than other dogs?
Probably not, but when it does bite, it removes a part of you, your face, your arm ect.
Other dogs bite just as much but their jaw strength and upper body strength and lack of reputation makes these bites less newsworthy.
I know there are lots of pibulls out there that dont bite and never will but the way the authorities see it, its like having a loaded gun in your house.
I dont think banning the breed is a good idea but i think they need to be kept differently to other, less "dangerous" dogs.


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## redbellybite (Mar 27, 2010)

ssssnakeman said:


> Do pitbulls bite more people than other dogs?
> Probably not, but when it does bite, it removes a part of you, your face, your arm ect.
> Other dogs bite just as much but their jaw strength and upper body strength and lack of reputation makes these bites less newsworthy.
> I know there are lots of pibulls out there that dont bite and never will but the way the authorities see it, its like having a loaded gun in your house.
> I dont think banning the breed is a good idea but i think they need to be kept differently to other, less "dangerous" dogs.


agreed Baz ....sorry to say ,but arguments saying small and toy breeds bite more often and readily is true( Iam an owner of two white fluff balls) 
But the real point is, the damage done by a small dog, is like comparing a spotted bite to a full size adult scrub with the potential eb venom thrown in for good measure(meaning death is a great posiibility) ...you cant compare those small dogs with these PITS and other large breeds ..
Mark ,if pits are your thing ,then so be it ,but I hope you do your utmost to avoid public confrontation,that kids wont be allowed to go near the dog ,cause kids are as unpredictable as dogs can be too ,and that if you need to take it out in public ,make sure he/she wears a full face muzzle ...that way at least you are showing that you have taken all steps as a responsible dog owner ...I dont dislike the breed ,but in all honesty they scare me off ,due to the damage that can be done by them ..this certainly cant be argued by any pitbull lover ...


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## licky (Mar 27, 2010)

Probably a load of rubbish, but i was watching a docco on domestic dogs and the their jaw strength. According to the docco pitbulls placed 3rd in jaw power. 1st was the rotty and 2nd was the shephard. On a second docco mastiffs placed first to being able to bite you with over 500 pounds of force where the rotty had only mid 300's of bite force. 
On a side note i think people get confused with the reasons why pitbulls were bred. 
thought i might add that in.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Mar 27, 2010)

I'm sick of all the Anti-Pitbull comments we hear nowadays, in America, breeds were tested on average temperament, and did you lot know that APBT's beat Labradors?


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## moose (Mar 27, 2010)

I own and have owned APBT for the last 20 years.

My current bitch is a s placid and friendly as any other Dog.

This debate has being going on for many years, and did anyone realise that most attacks from these terrier breeds are actually cross breds?

Moose.


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## MrSpike (Mar 27, 2010)

stimsi said:


> M.Punja, I am also from Adelaide and believe you can not easily buy "PIT" brand bull terriers, HOWEVER, I do know that the American Staffy is also a "PIT" brand staffy but is considered an upmarket or show type Pit Bull, there are many different breads but if you continue to look for dogs try looking for an American Staffy ( Red Nose ) as you will find this is a polite or subtle way of advertising Pit Bull Terriers. I own a brindle girl who is just on 12 months old, she is a beautiful dog and gets along famously with our 18month old lab, we do although still watch her around smaller children as she can get a little carried away when playing with their toys but I dont believe she would intentionaly bite. I would also advise checking the owners of the dogs being sold as some people dont give a **** about what temp dog they bread they are just out for a quick buck, Happy hunting cheers.



No. There aren't different breeds of "pitbull". The only true 'pitbull' is the American Pitbull Terrier. American staffy's, are American staffy's. English staffy's, are English staffy's. They are not a type of American Pitbull they are all their own individual breed. The difference between an APBT to the other's is gameness, that what they where bred for. You'd be lucky to find a Amstaff or English staffy that has the stamina or drive of a true APBT.

Yes, you do get people who advertise them as Rednose American Staffy's, or A.P.B.T staffy's but they are still pitbulls. The reason they are advertised like this is to still be able to publicly advertise any pups with less risk of getting caught if the breed is on the BSL in your state.

And as for the woman who got attacked recently - I feel for her, I really do. No one should have to go throgh that. But i'd like to see photos of the dog that did the damage. I don't think this dog is actually what it is being made out to be. No photo's have been provided, no evidence that it is what people are saying it is, nothing. This is also another reason why I don't think APBT should be crossed with other breeds, if the dog is infact what it is being made out to be. APBT from proper lineage are stable, loyal and well behaved if you raise them and train them right. They are also protective of their owners as tatt2tony has stated, which can be a downfall. 

The difference between an APBT attacking someone and a Labradore or Akita is their strength. The dog was made to FIGHT, it was made to never back down and keep going untill either he or his oponent are dead, or both. This is the only reason why their attacks on people are much more severe and life threatening, and again this falls down to the animal not being raised correctly, but in saying that any dog has the potential to turn around and cause injury. However on a whole, if you look up temprament statistics or public records from a 3 quater year you will find that the APBT isn't in the top 20 breeds of dog that have cause the most attacks throughout the state, heck staffy is only something like 17. Most breeds are toys or man-stoppers. Which I think says alot.

/End rant.


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## redbellybite (Mar 27, 2010)

I am not so ANTI pitbull ..as I am ANTI owner ....all dogs have the potential to attack this is true ...SIZE does matter to the effects of damage /death that could come from an attack ...but the sad reality is ,and I am not saying this to any one individual ..BUT a % of those type of dog owners have a bad attitude which is passed onto the dog/s by the way they are encouraged to act and treated and so the stigma sticks like glue ...maybe instead of banning the dog ...we should be banning those type of people from owning them instead ...

[video=youtube;pBNC-qtmvfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBNC-qtmvfw[/video]

and this says alot ...


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## gozz (Mar 27, 2010)

Try boar dogs . com


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## Chris1 (Mar 27, 2010)

people are disgraceful.


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## redbellybite (Mar 27, 2010)

Chris1 said:


> people are disgraceful.


yeah Chris people are disgraceful ..but people are also kind and as on the vid it shows the good with the bad ...heres hoping we can get rid of the bad ...


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 27, 2010)

I really feel soooo sorry for them.. alot of people bad mouth them alot..:x
but at the end of the day, its the humans who are to blame 100%


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## Kyro (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with rbb, pit bulls & other similar breeds can't be compared to most dogs. Fact is they were bred for hunting wild boar & cattle, then when dog fighting became popular they were bred for fighting. Now people want to keep them as cuddly pets which goes against every instinct that's been bred into them, kinda cruel really. I think if you don't have a real use for that kind of dog(pigging) then get a dog that will enjoy living in your yard without having to be penned up & muzzled every time you step out your front gate.


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## AM Pythons (Mar 27, 2010)

video says it all.. thanks rbb...


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 27, 2010)

It's amazing watching a thread like this on a website dedicated to snakes and reptiles. As everyone knows, snakes are subject to a lot of media hype, and whenever there is a media article with the slightest inconsistency, everybody on APS is up in arms...yet they are unable to draw a parralel between the media stigma surrounding snakes, and the media stigma surrounding "dangerous dogs". 

Come on guys, think outside the square!


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## AMY22 (Mar 27, 2010)

Some statistics from 2007 if you are interested (from last years study notes), the risk of being attacked by rottweilers, german shepherds, red/blue heelers, and bull terriers is up to 5 times higher than that of other common breeds. 

The aggression dogs have can be of many different factors, and the confidence of that dog will play a roll, i.e. too much confidence or too litlle confidence. Small dogs for example definitely have a habit of biting, either because they have no proper training, or because they have anxiety problems (which can happen alot because of the way people approach them). A lot of larger dogs have been selectively bred for their strength and confidence, so when they attack the damage can be severe. These dogs were made to fight, and although they aren't kept for these reasons anymore, some of those traits are still there.

You can't label every single dog in a specific breed as a horrible animal, but no matter how confident you are you always need to remember that the chance may be there, and when giving advice to someone else interested in that breed you need to make them aware of the laws and safety required, not just 'they are a great dog and all the ones I've owned haven't had an amount of aggression'. Every animal is different, and the laws are there for a reason so caution must always be exercised.
Take Rottys for example. Some people have already said they are a great dog and the ones they've owned were good animals. When I was a kid my mother and I were walking down the street and someones rotty had got out and nearly ripped the two of us to shreds. It was absolutely terrifying and to this day the one dog that literally has me shaking is rottweilers.
Having said that- I know they are not all bad and I won't say they are a bad breed of dog, there is just a higher chance within the breed of having a dog with traits of aggression. Last year I had a few opportunities to be around them, one rotty (about 8 months old) came into the clinic and I said I'd like to be the one to take him outside for a pee. Of course I took one look at him and my heart skipped a beat because he'd seen me to, but once he was on the leash he was a great dog (with a habit of getting caught in the door and tripping up stairs at every possible opportunity). 

The confidence of other people will also play a roll, after my rottweiler incident I had a fear of larger dogs and not knowing how to react, I did have a few incidences with people who told me their dog 'has never hurt anyone'. Now that I'm older, have experience and know how to be confident- I've never been bitten since.

So if you do decide to own a Pit Bull remember that not everyone will have a lot of confidence around your dog and that could play a factor in some situations, so if someone is a bit iffy, don't try and calm them by saying your dog won't bite, otherwise you might end up looking a bit foolish.


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## nabu120 (Mar 27, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It's amazing watching a thread like this on a website dedicated to snakes and reptiles. As everyone knows, snakes are subject to a lot of media hype, and whenever there is a media article with the slightest inconsistency, everybody on APS is up in arms...yet they are unable to draw a parralel between the media stigma surrounding snakes, and the media stigma surrounding "dangerous dogs".
> 
> Come on guys, think outside the square!


 

agreed.


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## thals (Mar 27, 2010)

Have PM'd you Mark.


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## Aiigaru (Mar 27, 2010)

Instead of talking to people who really have no idea, or just have an opinion based on the crap from the media, go to a dog forum and talk to people who know and understand the breed.


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## smeejason (Mar 27, 2010)

Unless you have owned one you have no right to comment. 
The media is awesome at scare tactics and looks like 90% fall for them. 
Good luck on your hunt for one buudy i wish i could help but all the people i know have long let their lines die out rather than let them be destroyed by crossing with other breeds or other lines.


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## Jay84 (Mar 27, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It's amazing watching a thread like this on a website dedicated to snakes and reptiles. As everyone knows, snakes are subject to a lot of media hype, and whenever there is a media article with the slightest inconsistency, everybody on APS is up in arms...yet they are unable to draw a parralel between the media stigma surrounding snakes, and the media stigma surrounding "dangerous dogs".
> 
> Come on guys, think outside the square!



Agreed Jonno,

I tried to outline the parallels in my first post, but i think it may have gone unnoticed.


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## SouthSydney (Mar 28, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Agreed Jonno,
> 
> I tried to outline the parallels in my first post, but i think it may have gone unnoticed.


 
Haha same... :?


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## snakehandler (Mar 28, 2010)

As an owner and breeder of what some people term a dangerous dog, Rotties, as well as an owner and breeder of reptiles I can tell you now there is a lot of misinformation about both groups of pets.

You have the media pandering to Dr. Hugh Worth (RSPCA) here in Vic. who would have all large breed dogs banned, so he loves to beat up the fact when big dogs attack, but never do you hear of the large number of people with serious injuries from small breeds such as maltese terriers.

As a rottie breeder we have been working for years to clear the name of the dog, a simple statement is required:
BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED

As a venomous snake owner I can see that the actions of keepers who irresponsibly handle their animals and then get bitten will make it harder and harder for us to own the animals, but when we look at 90% of cases where people are bitten by their animals (dogs or reptiles) it is their own fault. You will never hear the full story behind the latest dog attack, that is not the way the media work, just like the guy who was bitten on the face by the brown, where did it mention he was drinking at the time...I know that he may not have been drunk, but alcohol impairs your judgement and reactions.

Look at the owners of the animals before blaming the animals when they bite.


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## Ships (Mar 28, 2010)

I really dont know what everyone is arguing about, the breed has been found to be unsound in the general population, whether its because of dodgy owners or not the fact remains that all too often elderly people and children are in the news after being mauled. People want them because of the stigma attached to them, go figure


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 28, 2010)

Ships,

Where have they been found to be unsound? Just because The Sunday Mail says so, doesn't mean it's the truth. Sean draws another parallel between snakes and "dangerous dog" ownership - irresponsible interaction with the animal is what leads to the vast majority of bites (or "attacks" in the case of dogs) yet this fact is not highlighted in the media with dogs. It is the same as any large, dangerous animal - if you do not have the correct knowledge of how to interact with it on a safe level, you will come off second best eventually.


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## redbellybite (Mar 28, 2010)

I'd like to know where the medical reports are of a maltese terrior ripping off an arm firstly  

In an overall opinion it is true ,you cant blame the actual breed as there are no doubt plenty of big dog breeds that have been tar'd with the same brush ,from individual attacks on people ...
unfortunantly teh pitbulls and other breeds alike ,attract certain types of humans that when these to species are mixed create a very bad situation for anyone or anything in that situation ...as I said it would be better to ban those people then ban the actual breed ...
I hope that if you are a dog owner you have the brains ,regardless ,of what breed ,to fully take responsibility of your dogs and when out in public or if kids are present then all actions required to keep your dog and those that are near your dogs are used correctly ..that includes dogs that maybe be human happy but have bad attitudes towards other animals such as dogs etc ..


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## MisLis (Mar 28, 2010)

Very well said, also I have personally known of a ase where someone has had an official complaint made about their dogs (which was deserved as they got out and bit someone) and on the council complaint the dogs were put down as pit bulls. one was a shepherd x lab, and the other was a a ridgeback cross something. Pitty's often unfairly cop it for all attacks. I'm not saying they aren't possibly dangerous every animal is but if the time and effort is put into keeping/maintaining them they are a fantastic house mate




Jay84 said:


> It still baffles me why people are allowed to keep venomous snakes and huge pythons......... They prove themselves time and time again to be unpredictable and dangerous......
> 
> Wasn't someone just bitten on the face by a brown? There have been a couple of deaths this year in the USA of children being asphyxiated by big pythons.........
> 
> ...


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## bundysnake (Mar 28, 2010)

Pitbulls are great dogs, i had one myself a few years back. I now have a Amstaff and she is great.


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## jessb (Mar 28, 2010)

Rainbow-Serpent said:


> I'm sick of all the Anti-Pitbull comments we hear nowadays, in America, breeds were tested on average temperament, and did you lot know that APBT's beat Labradors?


 
Sorry, but what an absolute load of rubbish. Show me some genuine, unbiased, objective statistics with academic-standard methodology that supports that claim...




smeejason said:


> Unless you have owned one you have no right to comment.


 
Not a brilliant argument really... I don't have to let my child play with a loaded gun to realise it is a bad idea. 

Instead I would prefer to look at the history of children who have been allowed to play with loaded guns, how even controlled situations are subject to accidents, oversights and human error, and what the risk/benefit analysis is. Am I willing to keep a dog that has a higher propensity to 'snap' unpredictably and cause immense damage to myself, my family or another person, just for the benefits of keeping a breed that has no additional qualities that can't be found in many other breeds of dog? No. And when my family is at risk of other people who choose to keep a highly unpredictable and potentially deadly dog, I believe that there should be strict regulations in place to minimise the risk posed by these irresponsible people.


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## Jay84 (Mar 28, 2010)

Ships said:


> People want them because of the stigma attached to them, go figure



Hahahahaha........ Yes i have one because i am a big bad ROMPA STOMPA !!!!


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## waruikazi (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't have a pitty but i do have a pit type dog.

I didn't buy him cause i needed to compensate for something (that's what my snakes are for) I bought him cause i liked the look fo the breed (stocky muscular looking dogs), i love their personalities and it was a breed that suited my life style.

The exact same reasons as anyone buys any dog for a pet wether it be a pug, kelpie or blue heeler. No one judges people for buying any other breed of dog...


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## Dragontamer (Mar 28, 2010)

> I didn't buy him cause i needed to compensate for something (that's what my snakes are for)



i do that why i have toy breeds 
but seriously most people out there think snakes are the most dangerous thing around but we still keep them. id be interested to know the amount of pittys kept to the number of attacks...


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## Stevo2 (Mar 28, 2010)

It's not the number of attacks but the damage done during any given attack. Toy poodle attacks and it gets kicked into next week. APB attacks and someone loses a limb. And the dog loses its' life.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Mar 28, 2010)

its not just APBT any large & powerful dog can do the damage. Its up to the owner to bring it up right, train it right and keep it contained or under control at all times.

[video=youtube;y-9UNEDbXAc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9UNEDbXAc&feature=fvw[/video]

[video=youtube;MZm037jPNgc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZm037jPNgc&feature=related[/video]


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## Ships (Mar 28, 2010)

I still dont understand the argument, are you saying that they have the same temprement as a silky terrier for example, by that ethos do all dogs have the same tempremant? Are they all lovely arm chair dogs then? even though they have been purpose bred to kill and maim? 

Does the same logic then transpose to reptiles? Does an eastern Brown have the same temprement as a small eyed snake, a tiger the same as a copperhead? ............and the list goes on.

I dont doubt that there are a lot of lovely natured pit bull terrier dogs out their personally I wouldn't tust them, but that goes for any dog. Comparing dangerous dog keeping to keeping vens doesn't stack up. Unfortunately in dog attacks its usually some other unfortunate victim that cops it, with snakes its generally the owner.


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## m.punja (Mar 28, 2010)

unique said:


> m.punja - you remind me of my Neighbour when he wanted one just like you do ,kept saying everything that you are saying...its the media, its how you raise a dog ect ect ,they are illegal but i don't care.
> 
> just up the road from me ,this guy owned a nice red nose pitty ,he got her as a pup...the dog was really friendly ,he had a specially made cage, he kept telling me that its how you raise it and treat it ect ect every time i went up there the dog was fine, he loved it , i was really interested as i was planning on getting one of the dogs from one of the litters when it was older and had pups.
> 
> ...


 
Didn't he know how dogs can be with food? He doesn't keep elapids does he? Hate too see what would happen if he tried hand feeding a hungry tiger.


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## m.punja (Mar 28, 2010)

PS thanks to everone who read my opening post and repied. Too all others, you all have good points for both sides (well to be honest I really didn't read much of the debat because I really didn't care and my opinion hasn't changed in the slightest) Too those who are interested, we have a very secured yard and allways will, we have a very big secure and safe pen as backup which the dog will be trained to go into, all the dogs sleep in these pens and are fed in these pens and suit council requirments, we have appropriate chains collars and harnesses, including the car harness for road trips and have lots of expeirence training dogs, plus we put all our pups through pup school just to keep us up to date and actually make us dedicate that time into the pups. We also have all the appropriate signage. My cosins have kept and breed pittys and staffys for years now but we are looking for a dfferent bloodline, but if we need help with anything they would jump at the oppertunity to help.


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## snakehandler (Mar 28, 2010)

RBB go check the hospital records in Perth were a 2 year old girl had her face half ripped off by a maltese terrier, not making it to the media because it isnt a dangerous breed. You only hear of the large breed dogs due to the extent of injury. If you check your facts more than 7000 people are hospitalised every year because of dog attacks, how many do you hear about? I only know this due to research I had to do when preparing arguments for our rottie club when politicians have been going off half cocked not understanding what is happening when it comes to dog bites.


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## Bax155 (Mar 28, 2010)

Splitmore said:


> still baffles me why people want breeds like pitbulls. They prove themselves time and time again to be viscious and un-trustworthy. It's a load of crap the arguement 'it's not the dog, it's how its raised'


Still baffles me why people keep elapids, ohh thats right they keep them cause they like them and dont care for what others say!!


Jay84 said:


> It still baffles me why people are allowed to keep venomous snakes and huge pythons......... They prove themselves time and time again to be unpredictable and dangerous......
> 
> Wasn't someone just bitten on the face by a brown? There have been a couple of deaths this year in the USA of children being asphyxiated by big pythons.........
> 
> ...



Well said Jay!!



redbellybite said:


> I am not so ANTI pitbull ..as I am ANTI owner ....all dogs have the potential to attack this is true ...SIZE does matter to the effects of damage /death that could come from an attack ...but the sad reality is ,and I am not saying this to any one individual ..BUT a % of those type of dog owners have a bad attitude which is passed onto the dog/s by the way they are encouraged to act and treated and so the stigma sticks like glue ...maybe instead of banning the dog ...we should be banning those type of people from owning them instead ...
> 
> YouTube - Pitbull attacks!!!
> 
> and this says alot ...



Gee RBB you know how to pull the heart strings of a so called tough guy!! I can simpathise with Pit Bulls were just misundastood!!



snakehandler said:


> RBB go check the hospital records in Perth were a 2 year old girl had her face half ripped off by a maltese terrier, not making it to the media because it isnt a dangerous breed. You only hear of the large breed dogs due to the extent of injury. If you check your facts more than 7000 people are hospitalised every year because of dog attacks, how many do you hear about? I only know this due to research I had to do when preparing arguments for our rottie club when politicians have been going off half cocked not understanding what is happening when it comes to dog bites.



Well said mate, I've never owned a pure bred pit bull only x breeds, although I've met dozens of pure bred animals and have yet to see a savage one ( all have been sooks actually ), every living creature has the capabiltity of being a monster, it seems the media only informs us of the minority monsters, the ones who sell papers or pull viewers!!
Give pit bulls a break every living creature deserves a chance be it great whites, grizzly bears, hippos or the humble pit bull, pull your heads in people as stated before ( I think by Jonno ) we all jump on the band wagon when a snake gets a bad rap why should a dog of any breed get a different treatment???


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## schizmz (Mar 28, 2010)

Animals are just like people.. sometimes they bite the hand that feeds.


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## DragonOwner (Apr 18, 2010)

Pitbulls are illegal to own,breed,sell,give away in victoria. If caught getting one you get a massive fine and dog destroyed straight away. Didn't anyone watch animal emergancy or rspca were a lady took her male pitbull pup into emergancy cause the father attacked it. They told the lady that they were illegal to breed,sell and give away and she lived in victoria. Ask your council and they will tell you all the information needed. If a pit bull or pitbull cross is caught wandering the streets they take them to the pound were they are put to sleep. 
I have nothing againist the breed, I reckon its how the animal is brought up, But cause of the dangers eg councils banning them i would think it would be to risky getting one and owning one.


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## snakehandler (Apr 19, 2010)

Pitbulls are not illegal to own, they are a restricted breed, not banned....RSPCA will also tell you its ok to kill a snake, I have heard that personally.


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## ssshazza (Apr 19, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> Pitbulls are not illegal to own, they are a restricted breed, not banned....RSPCA will also tell you its ok to kill a snake, I have heard that personally.


 

Pretty sure that would've been an INDIVIDUAL's opinion, not one of the RSPCA's. 

I'm all for people owning pittys, but ONLY if they abide by the rules and regulations set by their council. The owners need to know that there will be consequences, and know that the animal just may be destroyed if it is allowed to wander. 
Let's face it, the majority of humans aren't the greatest at doing the right thing and that's exactly why these rules are put into place, to protect the public AND the animals.


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## Lovemydragons (Apr 19, 2010)

I don't own or even know a pitty currently, I used to know someone with one and she was gorgeous and so well behaved, even with strangers. But I am sick of people putting down the breed because of the repuation they have been given. I have known heaps of more dangerous dogs in other breeds and most of them are probably not even on the dangerous dog register. I agree that small yappy type dogs are sometimes more dangerous than people seem to admit. My sister was attacked by a fox terrier when walking down the street, wasn't bad but the thing still attacked her un-prevoked. This case the dog was let free out the front of the house with no supervision, it wouldn't have happened if it was inside the property fences or on a lead. 

I think all owners should have a license to have dogs, as *most* of the time dogs aren't trained and out of control by fault of the owner. 

I have a Sharpei and he isn't a perfect angel and the breed was also used for fighting (centuries ago), but I know how to read him, I've taken him to a fairly high level of obedience and I don't ever put him in a situation that I can't control. He's never hurt anyone, and due to his 'look' I understand people are wary of him. I would never leave him alone with anyone unless me or my husband was present. And I do this because it is my responsibility to look after him and the people that come into contact with him. 

So if you want to get a pitty or Am. Staff then I think there's no problem as it sounds like you know your responsibilities towards the dog. I was thinking if you go down to KCC Park in Skye where majority of dog shows are you may find someone who stills has them, or knows someone who breeds them. 

Good luck on your search.


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## Vincey (Apr 19, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> RBB go check the hospital records in Perth were a 2 year old girl had her face half ripped off by a maltese terrier, not making it to the media because it isnt a dangerous breed. You only hear of the large breed dogs due to the extent of injury. If you check your facts more than 7000 people are hospitalised every year because of dog attacks, how many do you hear about? I only know this due to research I had to do when preparing arguments for our rottie club when politicians have been going off half cocked not understanding what is happening when it comes to dog bites.


 
I've never heard of this and I've been a Perth kid all my life  When?

And on the main topic- I think they're great dogs, I'd never own one just because I'd prefer a shepard 
And as for the 2nd post on this thread, if you keep anything other than gecko's and lizards keep a tad more quiet


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## RELLIK81 (Apr 19, 2010)

ive got 2 amstaffs...aweosme dogs...i dont care what people think about them...they arent for everyone...they are a breed that needs some control over them ....


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## DragonOwner (Apr 19, 2010)

Well they might not be illegal but if you read this website http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CA0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.melbourne-petminders.com.au%2FDangerous_or_restricted_dog_breeds.htm&rct=j&q=victoria+dog+laws&ei=XPLLS9znCpGTkAWBl-zNBA&usg=AFQjCNHobmzIf2A6AxzmqJdFV1TPlAOIxA 
Specially read this
*Can I purchase a Restricted Breed?*
*As of 2November 2005, the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 makes it an offence to acquire a restricted breed dog. Persons applying to register their dog must make a declaration as to whether their dog is a restricted breed (a sizeable court penalty applies for a false declaration). Authorised officers (eg from the local council) also have the power to declare that a dog is a restricted breed. Councils may renew registration of existing registered and declared restricted breed dogs. However, councils cannot accept the registration of new restricted breed dogs unless they were housed in Victoria prior to 2 November 2005, and owners had genuinely believed their dog was not of a restricted breed.*


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## captive_fairy (Apr 19, 2010)

Most of what I was going to say is already here...But, I had a pitty and, while I would never leave my kids alone with ANY dog, I definately trusted the pitty over my brother in laws Foxy...It's ferral (despite them trying to train it) and bites constantly (it gave my partner a nasty bite on the ankle).
I have found that the bigger dogs can put up with alot more.
It's not a good pic, it was taken on a phone quite a few years ago, but she would put up with anything and not care.


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## Jarden (Apr 19, 2010)

Gotta love pitbulls when i lived in New zealand i had 2 Pure bred red nose pitbulls they were awesome dogs to keep as long as u give them love care and time they turn out to be the best dogs. Neglection and abuse is what turns a pitbull into a killer


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## syeph8 (Apr 19, 2010)

my housemate had a pitty, walked it daily, fed it well, treated it like a prince, was a fantastic dog. got liver failure, went berserk and attacked him. took a hell of a lot to get him off his arm. i have to say it put me off pitties. maltese are more likely to attack (and i would never buy) but when a pitty attacks, it is a whole other ball game.


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## vinny292 (Aug 23, 2011)

this is my littel america girl...so cuteView attachment 214921


this is a red nose pitbull the real deal and he is better than most dogs its the way there treated.....thay can be such a loveing pet...or such a sucsess full killers bring them up right and you have your self a life long conpanion

View attachment 214926


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## eitak (Aug 23, 2011)

redbellybite said:


> [video=youtube;pBNC-qtmvfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBNC-qtmvfw[/video]
> 
> and this says alot ...



This made me cry :cry:

I can't imagine being able to treat anything/anyone like that


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## K3nny (Aug 23, 2011)

i'm quite surprised this wasn't closed down a year ago, going by the OP's opening statement


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## spida_0000 (Aug 23, 2011)

schizmz said:


> Animals are just like people.. sometimes they bite the hand that feeds.


 
So true!!!


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## shea_and_ruby (Aug 23, 2011)

yeah i am surprised its still here...

my concern is that yes smaller dogs bite as well, but it is the amount of damage that the larger, more aggressive breeds can do.


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