# debate about smacking children



## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey everyone, 
For school, i have a debate that 'parents should not be allowed to smack their children'. I know heaps of people like to debate on this site and was wondering if i could get some opinions?
I am first speaker and i have never been first speaker before.. gll...
edit: sorry i spelt the title wrong i just realised then...


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## abbott75 (Oct 19, 2009)

I was smacked, and my kids will be!


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## W.T.BUY (Oct 19, 2009)

are u affirmative or negative? is it 3 min speech?


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## jinin (Oct 19, 2009)

Kids should be smacked. They should not be smacked to inflict pain but simply to be taught a lesson... Without punishment the world would be a mess and to teach a child how to act they need punishment. A good punishment is smacking because it frightens the kid. My dad, when he was a kid used to get chased around the house with a wooden spoon... so why change it now?


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## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

5 minutes but in our last debate they only went for about 2.5 minutes so im aiming to make mine longer this time.
I am affirmative and i found this website what does everyone think? 
Ten Reasons Not to Hit Your Kids - The Natural Child Project


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## jinin (Oct 19, 2009)

Looks Good.


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## J-A-X (Oct 19, 2009)

I smacked my children when they were little, never when i was angry, and only after they had been given 2 warnings about what they were doing, it was never hard, just enough to shock \ frighten them, my 'theory' was that they had to learn that their actions sometimes meant uncomfortable consequences, cause and effect if you like, 
I rarely smacked after the age of 3, didn't need to, they new when i meant 'business' when i started the 1.....2..... countdown


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## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

Jaxrtfm said:


> I smacked my children when they were little, never when i was angry, and only after they had been given 2 warnings about what they were doing, it was never hard, just enough to shock \ frighten them, my 'theory' was that they had to learn that their actions sometimes meant uncomfortable consequences, cause and effect if you like,
> I rarely smacked after the age of 3, didn't need to, they new when i meant 'business' when i started the 1.....2..... countdown


Yeah that's kinda what it was like with me. It's really good that i am getting opinions on the other side because the i can think of things to say against that for my argument. From what i understand, some of these views are from an adult's point so maybe other girls my age wouldn't come up with the same arguments but thanks so much for the points keep them coming


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## Sidonia (Oct 19, 2009)

Wooden spoon mum sparks smacking debate

Here's a radio interview/article on a mother who smacked her kid with a wooden spoon if you're interested.


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## J-A-X (Oct 19, 2009)

PS: and to me there is a huge difference between a 'smack' and 'spanking', 'spanking' to me infers mulitple hits, and i don't think they should ever be used, because it means you have lost control,


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## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

Jaxrtfm said:


> PS: and to me there is a huge difference between a 'smack' and 'spanking', 'spanking' to me infers mulitple hits, and i don't think they should ever be used, because it means you have lost control,


well in that case, let me re-state.
our debate is actually That parents should not be allowed to spank their children.


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## AnthonyJ (Oct 19, 2009)

a good flogging never goes astray, i copped it as a kid if i did something wrong. wouldn't be who i am today if i wasn't. if i have kids they will be smacked the same.

i can't remember how many wooden spoons were snapped across my bum.


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## J-A-X (Oct 19, 2009)

m_beardie said:


> well in that case, let me re-state.
> our debate is actually That parents should not be allowed to spank their children.


 
to that i would say "No", it means you have lost control of the situation and are incapable of acting rational,

even animals that raise their young will 'reprimand' their offspring but they do not continue the aggression once the offspring has ceased the wrong doing that it was being reprimanded.for. 

That is when the offspring learn aggression, when discipline is administered without control

good luck with your debating, let us know how you go, I love a good debate (as opposed to an arguement)


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## sarah_m (Oct 19, 2009)

There is a huge difference between discipline ie a smack and abuse!
IMO there is a huge lack of discipline these days, kids are feral! Perhaps if a few more kids got a few more smacks they would turn into better people.

And some kids dont respond to other forms of discipline and I can say that because I was one of those kids. Sending me to my room or the naughty corner, grounding, deprivimg me of toys were all useless! About the only thing that did work was a good smack.

That said i dont think kids should be hit in anger or with belts, or hit in the head but no damage is done with a smack on the butt. It just lets the kid know they have gone too far.


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## W.T.BUY (Oct 19, 2009)

U have probably only been smacked 5 times throughout my life and I believe it is great for discipline. After the first few times the fear of getting smacked again stops you from doing what our not meant to. I agree completely with sarah_m post thou. 

On a side note gather information of what the other team will be talking about and have rebutels ready for what they are going to say.


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## pythonmum (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm strict with my kids, but didn't need to spank or hit. I smacked a hand once - when I'd lost it, not when it was a horrible act. The kids don't remember, but I do.

This recent article describes an international research project and suggests that smacking/spanking is associated with lower IQ. This doesn't mean smacking causes low IQ, it could be the case that less intelligent folks are more likely to use smacking. In any case, the difference is large enough that countries where smacking is normal have lower national IQ scores. Interesting reading and good ammunition for a debate.

_Link removed - see full text below._


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## W.T.BUY (Oct 19, 2009)

pythonmum said:


> I'm strict with my kids, but didn't need to spank or hit. I smacked a hand once - when I'd lost it, not when it was a horrible act. The kids don't remember, but I do.
> 
> This recent article describes an international research project and suggests that smacking/spanking is associated with lower IQ. This doesn't mean smacking causes low IQ, it could be the case that less intelligent folks are more likely to use smacking. In any case, the difference is large enough that countries where smacking is normal have lower national IQ scores. Interesting reading and good ammunition for a debate.
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/709477?src=mpnews&spon=34&uac=10445EN



I can't really see how smacking would cause low I.Q? I did remember reading that slapping the hand sends a jolt to the heart or something?


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## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

wow seems like a great website but i can't get into it, it says i need a password...
thanks for all the replies!


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## W.T.BUY (Oct 19, 2009)

m_beardie said:


> wow seems like a great website but i can't get into it, it says i need a password...
> thanks for all the replies!



+1.


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## pythonmum (Oct 19, 2009)

Sorry about that - guess we have access automatically. Here's the text:

*From Medscape Medical News *

*Spanking Linked to Lower IQ in Children*

Janis C. Kelly



September 24, 2009 — Groundbreaking research suggests children who are spanked have lower IQs than those who are not, and that the difference is large enough to lower national IQ scores in countries where corporal punishment of children is routine.
Murray Straus, PhD, head of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire, Durham, told _Medscape Psychiatry_ that his landmark 32-nation study of corporal punishment by parents and IQ also suggests that recent increases in IQ in many nations may have been partly a result of the worldwide decrease in the use of corporal punishment by parents.
"The longitudinal part of our study showed that children who were spanked the most fell behind the average IQ development curve, and those who were never spanked advanced ahead of the average," Dr. Straus said. He presented his results at the 14th International Conference on Violence, Abuse and Trauma in San Diego, California.
"That suggested to us that nations that use more corporal punishment of children would have more kids falling behind what they could have achieved, which might result in lower average national IQ, and that is what we found when we looked at data from 32 countries," he added.
To determine the longitudinal effects of spanking, Dr. Straus and colleague Mallie Paschall, PhD, senior research scientist at the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, studied nationally representative US samples of 806 children aged 2 to 4 years and 704 children aged 5 to 9 years. Both groups were retested 4 years later.
The IQs of children aged 2 to 4 years who were not spanked were 5 points higher 4 years later than the IQs of those who were spanked. The IQs of children aged 5 to 9 years who were not spanked were 2.8 points higher 4 years later than the IQs of children the same age who were spanked.
*Slows Mental Development* 
"How often parents spanked made a difference. The more spanking, the slower the development of the child's mental ability. But even small amounts of spanking made a difference," Dr. Straus said.

Next the researchers examined data from the 32-nation International Dating Violence Study, which included 17,404 students at 68 universities in 32 nations. This study included 2 questions asked to assess experiences of corporal punishment:

"I was spanked or hit a lot by my parents before age 12."
"When I was a teenager, I was hit a lot by my mother or father."
Possible responses were strongly disagree, disagree, agree, and strongly agree.
The researchers used the percentage of students who agreed or strongly agreed to estimate the corporal punishment rate in each nation. They then correlated those rates with data on national average IQ. The analysis controlled for 10 variables including mother's education level and socioeconomic status.
The analysis showed a lower national average IQ in nations where spanking was more prevalent. Dr. Straus said that the strongest link between corporal punishment and IQ was for those whose parents continued to use corporal punishment even when subjects were teenagers.
"I was surprised that this link was so strong," Dr. Straus said. "It was logical, but lots of logical things don't work out."
*Economic Implications* 
The correlation between corporal punishment and IQ has major economic implications, as several studies have shown that gross domestic product is closely related to national average IQ, Dr. Straus said.
The researchers suggest 2 possible explanations for the association between corporal punishment and lower IQ.
First, corporal punishment is extremely stressful and can become a chronic stressor for young children, who typically experience corporal punishment 3 or more times a week. For many, it continues for years.
Research shows that the stress of corporal punishment shows up as an increase in posttraumatic stress symptoms, such as being fearful that terrible things are about to happen and being easily startled. These symptoms are associated with lower IQ.
Second, a higher national level of economic development underlies both fewer parents using corporal punishment and a higher national IQ.
The good news is that the use of corporal punishment has been decreasing worldwide, which may signal future gains in IQ across the globe.
"The worldwide trend away from corporal punishment is most clearly reflected in the 24 nations that legally banned corporal punishment by 2009. Both the European Union and the United Nations have called on all member nations to prohibit corporal punishment by parents. Some of the 24 nations that prohibit corporal punishment by parents have made vigorous efforts to inform the public and assist parents in managing their children. In others, little has been done to implement the prohibition," Dr. Straus said.
"Nevertheless, there is evidence that attitudes favoring corporal punishment and actual use of corporal punishment have been declining even in nations that have done little to implement the law and in nations which have not prohibited corporal punishment," he added.
*Problem Child? Ask Whether Parents Are Spanking* 
Dr. Straus says the findings have immediate clinical implications. One of the first things physicians should do when working with a child who has behavioral problems is to ask the parents about spanking.
If parents are spanking in an attempt to control behavior, they need to be told this is not effective and only serves to model an aversive style of interaction, said Dr. Straus. Instead, clinicians should ask how much punitive vs positive discipline is applied.
"You want to shift the balance away from punitive discipline, such as corporal punishment or verbal violence...toward positive discipline, such as explaining, praising, and rewarding the kid, and not just paying attention when the child is doing something wrong," said Dr. Straus.
Dr. Straus strongly emphasized that foregoing punitive discipline does not mean halting other forms of discipline. He also noted that "one of the most closely held secrets in child psychology" is that with children age 2 years or under, no form of discipline really works.
"The recidivism rate for bad behavior is about 50% within 2 hours and 100% within 24 hours in 2-year-olds," Dr. Straus said. "This is true no matter what you do, because those children might understand that what they have done is wrong, but they do not have the developmental control of their behavior that enables them not to repeat it. With 2-year-olds, you just have to be consistent and keep using positive discipline over and over."
*Correlation Clear, Cause Uncertain* 
Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, associate professor in the Department of Human Development and Family Sciences, University of Texas at Austin, who herself conducted research into the effects of corporal punishment by parents on children, told _Medscape Psychiatry_ that Dr. Straus has observed "an interesting association between national levels of corporal punishment of children, experiences of stress, and IQ," but that it is premature to suggest a causal connection.
She noted that other phenomena that might explain why corporal punishment has gone down and IQ has gone up include increasing levels of education. Better-educated parents use less corporal punishment and are more likely to engage in activities that support children's IQ such as reading to them or helping them with homework, she noted.
Dr. Gershoff added that the model Dr. Straus has suggested is in line with previous research, but that the mechanism by which spanking may lead to lower cognitive abilities remains unclear.
"I am cautious about making causal conclusions about what reducing corporal punishment would do at a country level," Dr. Gershoff said. "It is possible that reducing parents' reliance on corporal punishment may improve children's IQ scores, but I would suggest that would only be the case if parents are able to substitute positive and nonpunitive discipline in the place of corporal punishment."
_T__he study was supported by the National Institute of Mental Health and the University of New Hampshire. The authors have disclosed no relevant financial relationships._ 
14th International Conference on Violence, Abuse and Trauma: Presentation KF3. Presented September 25, 2009.


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## moosenoose (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm amazed there has been such a big deal made out of it lately, especially when severe assaults are made on kids by their own parents, some even murdered! And then only to see the culprits (the parents committing these atrocities) get a little smack on the wrist from big brother. Bit of a severe double standard when they're trying to ham this topic up I feel.

I suppose the interesting point is what is a deterrent for a child?? Money means nothing to them as a young age, so you can't fine them. The naughty-corner is only good if the kid agrees with it from the start, otherwise they're going to say no and tell you to go to hell :lol: Then what??? ......It worked for me, and it's worked for my kids. There is an element of respect simply because they know if the boundary is crossed it's going to be a little unpleasant. The next thing they're going to say is that I'm not allowed to raise my voice at them! :lol: ....but do you really know what? Who trained me to be a parent?? Not the old man that's for sure! My kids have got it pretty damned good as far as I'm concerned. They've been treated nothing like I was.

It's not easy being a parent at times. Sure it has plenty of rewards, but it's difficult none-the-same. Where was my training in dealing with the kids when they were handed to me at the hospital?? No textbook given to me...although I'm not good with instruction manuals probably would have lost it before I got them home anyway  I suppose a school course on human/child psychology would have done me wonders, but...... 8) Generally the only thing most/all parents have to arm themselves for parenthood is their own firsthand experience that their parents had given them. 

Oh did I mention that kids can be quite frustrating at times?? Sometimes its not like the traffic jam that you can simply drive through, this one follows you on a daily basis at times 

I think our current society as a whole has some severe problems with it. A lack of discipline has led to an unprecedented arrogance, and I'm sure many cops working on the streets will confirm this (not only what they see directed to others, but also themselves). There is also a visible lack of respect for anyone and everyone, and the laws are too relaxed and do not serve any deterrent to these sorts of people who have clearly led a life of indiscipline- something I think can be slapped fairly at the feet of the parents who "raised" them. 

Corporal punishment at schools wasn't a bad thing either as far as I'm concerned. For a parent to turn around and say "nobody should be punishing LIttle Johnny but me" doesn't really cut it when the kid is 18, out of the home and then completely out of control. I'm sure the other prisoners he gets tossed in with at the lock-up won't be as gentle as dear mummy was  8)

...anyway....just my unremitting, unbiased, self-opinionated view on why kids require a little further interaction than just mere words and reasoning. Isn’t there the saying “actions speak louder than words”?? :lol: :lol:


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## Vixen (Oct 19, 2009)

I think kids and everyone rallying against smacking need to harden up! Seriously. I may be young myself but even now there is definitely a noticeable difference starting in the younger children, most are absolute brats nowadays which I find very sad.

I was flogged with wooden spoons, everyone my age I know was also flogged with wooden spoons, and we grew up fine did we not? As someone said previously, other forms of discipline don't seem to work with some children, and smacking is necessary.

What is the world coming to.


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## m_beardie (Oct 19, 2009)

uh oh.. i hope no one from the other school is viewing this thread. there are some very good arguments. any points on my side? (even though i don't really agree with the affirmative side )


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## FAY (Oct 19, 2009)

Some kids you can reason with, some you can't. 
Some only understand a smack.....

We all got walloped when we were kids, didn't do us any harm. But like anything, some parents have to go overboard..


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## pythonmum (Oct 19, 2009)

I think you will find that many in favour of smacking basically are like the above: I got smacked and I'm fine. Kids are brats now. Nothing else works.
You will be hard pressed to find any studies in favour of smacking. I know that some people in education (I'm a teacher) are sad that you can't use the cane anymore, but I think this is more of a reflection on their frustration. I know that pythondad found it much less painful to get the cane than to spend a weekend doing an assignment.


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## swaddo (Oct 19, 2009)

i agree with sarah (where did that post go?!). My wife is a teacher and has been physically assaulted by "kids" while at work. they got a timeout at the principles office, and she had months of counselling. little wondershe wont teach high school kids any more.

Some kids are great, brought up with a respect for others and some idea of what it means to live among other people, others need a bloody good smack upside the head ... they have no idea and no respect!


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## grizz (Oct 19, 2009)

*crack*

As a kid I got a wack when needed but I think most people see a good swift kick in the pants as the only way to get their point across. I see this as a tool that can be used if felt required but kids now are brought up much differently to many of us (I'm only 29). Many of my peers had only one parent in full time employment and therefore had much tighter restrictions on our social interaction. 

With parents not always being able to provide the time for thier children, many see $$$$ as a way of making the up the balance for limited parental interaction. This can lead off on all sorts off tangents and I believe also contributes to the immediate gratification issues we see in many of today's youth...

So to cut a long story short, a wack on the kyber will only work if boundaries are set and the child respects where the smack is coming from.


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## grannieannie (Oct 19, 2009)

I agree with Jax, though I did smack till they were about 8 or so. I NEVER used a wooden spoon, always thought that was dangerous. We were smacked with a strap at school and at home...looking back it didn't do us any harm. I think the trouble with a lot of troubled young people today is that they've never had restrictions put on them, never had a clear definition of right and wrong...discipline of some sort has got to be good. ..... I could go on and on...but won't.


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## swaddo (Oct 19, 2009)

pythonmum said:


> I think you will find that many in favour of smacking basically are like the above: I got smacked and I'm fine. Kids are brats now. Nothing else works.
> You will be hard pressed to find any studies in favour of smacking. I know that some people in education (I'm a teacher) are sad that you can't use the cane anymore, but I think this is more of a reflection on their frustration. I know that pythondad found it much less painful to get the cane than to spend a weekend doing an assignment.



I disagree with your initial premise.

I believe that if kids take you seriously when you say you will discipline them for bad behaviour, then 9 times out of 10 you don't actually have to do much at all. You do have to be prepared to carry through with it if they call your bluff though. Problem is that the way things are going if they call your bluff there will soon be bugger all you can do. Kids have a working understanding of assault and litigation ... it is already that way in schools. I have sat by and watched the (lack of) discipline regime in schools these days and it is a farce. The kids run riot, and the school cant do squat.


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## Rox.n.Lix (Oct 19, 2009)

Not much to help you out for your affirmative argument hey m_beardie?

i might try to go along the lines of, some parents not knowing where to draw the line.

While i agree with 1 smack in sever circumstances of acting out (i had them when i was little and they worked!)

Some parents will take advantage of 'acceptable smacks', and dole them out when the situation doesnt call for it or a non-violent resolution could be acheived.

who will say where to draw the line? who says when a smack is justified and when it isnt?

this is a very subjective line, and i think thats where you need to draw your argument.

good luck!!


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## redbellybite (Oct 19, 2009)

children under a certain age do not understand consequences...so a smack will get a result ..
once they are of an age where you can reason with them and offer choices ..and explain the consequences of their actions if they refuse to go by the set of rules you set for them ,things can change from a physical punishment to more of a material ,like taking something away or not letting them attend etc ...smaking is a form of communication ,wether the do gooders want to understand this or not ,maybe they have the lower IQ ...even in the animal world ,you watch a mother or even father of young animals ,they give a verbal warning ,like a growl or a roar etc ...the bub may listen to that and stop what ever they are doing ,but if it chooses not to listen then the next thing is a swipe by a paw or a grab around the scruff of the neck and a physical response is taken ..the young soon get the picture to stop it ...
Police now have less force because of less fear then they had when we were young ,coppers were still allowed to toe us in the bum and drag us home by the ear to our parents ...these days half the bloody parents and police and school teachers are scared of kids ...and then they wonder whats the world coming to ...DISCIPLINE only works when its consistant, and consistant doesnt mean ABUSE ...and as others have said there is a difference between smaking and bashing....


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## TahneeMaree (Oct 19, 2009)

cane, jug cord etc bring it all back kids these days are little brats... speaking of brats, take the toys and shove them down the toilet! Kick the kids outside let them run a muck in the yard etc... there's a general lack of respect for their elders and anyone in a position of power over them and they KNOW they're getting away with it too... just going by how I was raised, stick your nose out, get it chopped off without fail...

so yeah, I agree with smacking... within reason, on the hands, bum, back of the legs... where it'll sting without causing any actuall damage and like RBB said upto a certain age/maturity where they understand that their actions WILL have a consequence, confiscation(spelling) of toys, banning of events/freedoms etc.


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## redbellybite (Oct 19, 2009)

pythonmum said:


> I'm strict with my kids, but didn't need to spank or hit. I smacked a hand once - when I'd lost it, not when it was a horrible act. The kids don't remember, but I do.
> 
> This recent article describes an international research project and suggests that smacking/spanking is associated with lower IQ. This doesn't mean smacking causes low IQ, it could be the case that less intelligent folks are more likely to use smacking. In any case, the difference is large enough that countries where smacking is normal have lower national IQ scores. Interesting reading and good ammunition for a debate.
> 
> _Link removed - see full text below._


they also did a so called study that ..kids who ate alot of sweets were more likely to turn into criminals ...
ITS ALL BULLCRAP SPECULATION ...instead of worrying what a bloody smack can do ..why dont they focus on teaching new parents COMMONSENSE ...then hopefully and just maybe that can then be passed down to their offspring ,who will realise that all these so called studies ..are as useful as tits on a bull ...as the old saying goes ...spare the rod spoil the child .


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## spongebob (Oct 19, 2009)

It's interesting how our own upbringing colours our opinions.

The "it never did me any harm, so it wont harm my kids" is a tired and old argument.

I was never smacked and neither was either of my parents (born in the 1920's) and I'm guessing going back through the generations it was not considered necessary for my ancestors. 

There is ample research to prove that there are more effective means of discipline, but those who were hit as children seem to have the greatest difficulty hearing the logic. Perhaps they need to stay loyal to their own parents.

We call it a smack but if we do this to an adult it is illegal. Yet to do to the same to a child is to 'spare the rod to spoil the child', and considered good medicine.

This is illogical

I really cant see how we can continue to justify assaulting the most powerless in our community.

Many countries have now made hittting children illegal, and some of these countries may be considered less 'developed' than Australia.


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## redbellybite (Oct 19, 2009)

sponge bob ...why is it then, that the people like yourself have the problem with us "so called" smackers and low IQ people ,on how we choose to deal with our children"?
You may look upon us as so called brutes and abusers ,,as some are claiming 
but then again we look at you as soft and door matish being walked all over by your tantrum chucking 6 year old in the super market ...in reality none of us at all agree with ABUSE of any child ...but a simple smack on the bottom ,should be a personal choice as the parent of that child and no one should be able to tell us how to bring up our kids .


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## Kersten (Oct 19, 2009)

From a moral/ethical point of view this issue is entirely subjective, and you'll never get either side to see the point of the other. However, from a legal point of view, it's black and white; there are no grey areas and it's not open to much, if any, interpretation. 

I don't really see the point in "debating" the topic, especially not on a forum like this. It only ends badly, and both sides end up looking ignorant and self righteous.


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## Fran (Oct 19, 2009)

redbellybite - totally agree


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## bongie555 (Oct 19, 2009)

i have no problems with smacking kids, i come from a very close, very large family, stubborn naughty kids that dont listen always got smacked but we try to avoid embarrasing the child in front of everyone, usually the child is pulled aside, smacked then given a thorough explanation why and if required made to apologise.
thats where i have a problem, parents who smack their kids and dont talk to them immediately after, often the kid doesnt know what he/she got smacked for.


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## jessb (Oct 19, 2009)

Some arguments for your side:

Smacking teaches a child that violence gets results - ie "I am bigger than you and if you don't do what I say, I will hit you, then you will do what I say" What kind of message does that send to a child?
It teaches a child to fear her parents and behave well out of fear
It doesn't teach a child the consequences of her actions (ie she doesn't pull the dog's tail because she understands that it will hurt the dog, but because she is scared of getting a smack - really we want to encourage them to understand WHY something is unacceptable)
violence is not acceptable in any other part of our society - how can we teach our children this double standard?
If we aren't allowed to be violent towards other members of our society, then why is it acceptable to be violent towards the smallest and most vulnerable and powerless members of our families?
Most parents hit out of their own anger and frustration - effectively you are making your child a punching bag to vent your own emotions.
When all corporal punishment is limited to "a tap on the bum" after several warnings, then smacking might be acceptable, but as long as thousands of children are abused or killed every year, (look up some sources on NAPCAN) we need to eliminate violence altogether as there are far too many parents who simply don't get it.


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## jessb (Oct 19, 2009)

NB I am the mum of one child and RBB and others of the "wooden spoon" school of parenting, I am not a doormat. I frequently get compliments on how well behaved and polite my daughter is, we reason with her and discuss the consequences of her actions. She is incredibly empathetic and kind to to other kids and animals. She has had maybe three or four absolutely lose-it tantrums in her life and on the very rare occasions when she is overtired and wound up, we just let her stomp off to her room and have a sulk (it's very funny!) 

Treating your child with respect, taking the time to explain emotions, consequences and acceptable behaviour, and making reasonable concessions for their age and development isn't "being a doormat" it's being a good parent.


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## Noongato (Oct 19, 2009)

All the 'improvements' theyre making like cutting down smaking children, laptops in schools, sex ed in younger and younger classes, no red pen etc are probably the reason why the new age of kids are so disgraceful (i know there are exceptions) Im only 22 and the things i hear teenage girls talk about almost makes ME hurl! I think they should be winding back time, at least the older generations mostly turned out respectable people.


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## jessb (Oct 19, 2009)

Mignight serval - it has been proven over and over again that the earlier sex ed is introduced, the older kids are when they have their first sexual experience and the more likely they are to use contraception. Not sure how that is a problem?

I think it's pretty hilarious that there are all these teens and twenty-somethings on here wailing about "the good old days". In MY day, twentysomethings were out partying and having fun, not bemoaning the state of "kids these days" on the Internet!


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## boxhead (Oct 20, 2009)

i am very impressed with the number of young members who agree with smacking .as one of the older people on here i thought most would be against it .it gives an old fellow hope that not all young people will grow up as drop kicks .PS yes there is a difference between smacking and abuse .


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## ravan (Oct 20, 2009)

i dont recall ever being smacked as a child, but then, i was the 'good one', and never really warranted it. i do recall getting my mouth washed out with soap a few time lol. my sister got hit with the belt a few times, because she was a little brat, but i must say, the threat of getting 'the belt' was enough of a deterrent... or just to be more sneaky at being caught >.>

but if i ever get around to having children, i think their father would have to dish out all the punishment, but in saying that, i would only agree to a firm smack with a hand, not a wooden spoon, belt whatever. 
i dont think i could smack them, i'd just feel too mean. >.<


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## anntay (Oct 20, 2009)

ok im alfor a smack in the right useage of hit with ya hand. i just jave my boy a tap to get him to stop and go to bed and it makes him stop and realize what hes doing. with my daughter i can smack her and it has no affect so talking works best with her. i dont care if im down the shops or out some were else the kids want to be "ferals" or little pains i wont say the words then deal with it there and then but quietly you would not like for someone to hit you in public for doing something wrong...
i bet there are a few parents out there that have a situation in a public place were their child has tested them and have been give the looks from passes by for not keeping their child under "propper control".
smacking never did us any harm and now this new generation has the worst respect not only for others but for them selves also.


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## MrHappy (Oct 20, 2009)

Okay, I've skipped through a lot of the replies because there's too much for me to read at the moment. M BEARDIE NEEDS HELP FOR THE DEBATE.. 
I'm not on your side . . . but, to help you win your DEBATE, lets see what we can do.
You will have to talk about the other team who will say that smacking is there to deter children from 'choosing the wrong path' (or whatever)
Give the definition of smack.
Thesuarus - Smack = spank, slap, clout, hit, strike, punch, cuff, blow
Dictionary - to hit somebody with a quick stinging and usually noisy blow with the palm of the hand.
Is this acceptable? Are we allowed to smack, spank, hit, punch etc. ADULTS for ANY reason (even to teach them a lesson)? No - it's against the law. So why would it be acceptable to do this to a defenceless child?
There are other ways of successfully 'teaching' your child the difference form right and wrong. FOCUS ON PARENTS 'CONTROLLING THEIR CHILDREN THROUGH SMACKING (VIOLENCE) as opposed to TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN TO MAKE ACCEPTABLE CHOICES VIA DISCUSSIONS/FAMILY VALUES/ROLE MODELLING ETC.'
You can also add the 'LAZY' word into your arguement. The 'lazy' option being to smack (or better yet - say 'violently attack the defenceless child') instead of talking with the child and explaining what and why their actions were unacceptable and then offering better solutions to the situation.
If you can sum it all up into a question posed to EVERY member of the other side, perhaps you could ask them who would be happy to smack, slap, hit an adult because of a 'mistake' they made . . . or . . . better yet, bring a child along with you and briefly explain something this child has done that is considered unacceptable and then ask the other team members to come forward and 'smack' this child to teach them a lesson.
Good luck with the debate.
P.S. Just for the record - when I was young I knew I would get a smack if I continued to 'do the wrong thing' and my children know this is the same with them. I know my parents treated me fairly.


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## moosenoose (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm pretty sure monkeys also smack their offspring....so it's only natural  :lol: (Can you use something like that in a debate?? Or is that something I've just made up?? )


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## jessb (Oct 20, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> I'm pretty sure monkeys also smack their offspring....so it's only natural  :lol: (Can you use something like that in a debate?? Or is that something I've just made up?? )


 
Monkeys also masturbate in public and fling their poo at people. Not sure if your argument is necessarily foolproof in a debate! :lol:


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## Rox.n.Lix (Oct 20, 2009)

yay, some other people realised this thread was asking for help in a school debate, not to carry out an online debate.
(btw, i have seen my cousins wife 'smack' her daughter across the face (5 years old) for misbehaving. it made me sick to my stomach.)
beardie_m, MrHappy and jessb have given you some really good points for the affirmative (better than mine! though i hope mine helped...)
Good luck!!


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## Rox.n.Lix (Oct 20, 2009)

jessb said:


> Monkeys also masturbate in public and fling their poo at people. Not sure if your argument is necessarily foolproof in a debate! :lol:


 
Bah hahahahah :lol: :lol:


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## redbellybite (Oct 20, 2009)

some of you are comparing an abusive bash to a simple smack...no one that agrees with a smack on the bottom ..says its ok to punch, kick, hit across the face etc ...the question was do we either agree that a SMACK is a good form of punishment or not ...and like I said no one should be able to tell us how to deal with our own children ...there will always be people that abuse their kids ,YOU DONT HAVE TO BE PHYSICAL TO ABUSE YOUR CHILDREN EITHER .. stop focusing on the obvious ,half the non smackers of children could be the type to lock their kids in cupboards or rooms ,,but none of you will know this as its not done in public view ,...


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## moosenoose (Oct 20, 2009)

jessb said:


> Monkeys also masturbate in public and fling their poo at people. Not sure if your argument is necessarily foolproof in a debate! :lol:



Shame about that :lol:




Rox.n.Lix said:


> (btw, i have seen my cousins wife 'smack' her daughter across the face (5 years old) for misbehaving. it made me sick to my stomach.)



And I suppose that's where some people get the point of this sort of punishment a little mixed up. There is discipline, and then there is abuse. You can smack a child, and then you can give a child a belting. I can smack my wife and get a giggle out of her, or (as an example) I could smack her and have the police pop over and arrest me  The term “smacking” can be thrown around a little loosely I feel. I think there is a line you can cross, and hitting a child across the face clearly crosses that line. Unfortunately some people don’t know where that line is.

If I was to give an argument against “smacking” a child I suppose you could argue that it teaches them that a physical response is more persuasive than a rational verbal response. Try doing the former next time a traffic cop pulls you over for doing the wrong thing and see what happens :lol: Then I guess the cop will revert to the former response as well with either his batten, capsicum spray or the ol’ 357 :lol: “Use your words…..what are you trying to say?” :lol: :lol:


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## Lewy (Oct 20, 2009)

People need to look at the majority of the kids today. They are rude, ignorant have no respect for other people they go around thinking they can get away with anything. Hang out in shopping centers at 14 with a smoke in they mouth wearing clothes 5 times too big for them 

I am all for smacking I had it my brothers had it and most people my age had it for playing up and we all turned out ok LOL 

You just got to look at what it used to be like many years ago, When a young kid would help a lady across the road or carry the shopping and they would hold a door open and allow an older person to walk through first but today they just think of themselves and don't give a hoot about anyone else.

This whole not allowed to smack your kid has just gone too far its a load of crap there is nothing wrong with a quick smack to the bottom or on the hand if that is what is needed to get the child's attention.

Belting's on the other hand can border on abuse....

P.S I'm not saying all kids are like this but am saying that the majority are


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Oct 20, 2009)

I think some parents abuse the power of smacking, but I have to say it seems to work quite well in some cases.

Not a huge smack in the head, but when I was younger I went through a stage of being a brat so whenever I did something naughty, Dad would explain to me what I was doing and why it was wrong, but if I didn't listen I'd get a firm smack on the wrist. I turned out okay, I don't do super stupid or bratty things anymore, but I don't believe in continuous beating. Just a smack on the wrist to shock the kid, as a last resort.

My Dad doesn't smack me when I do bad things anymore, he just takes away my computer,TV or threatens to sell my snakes when I'm at school, works better than smacking I reckon.


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## Kersten (Oct 20, 2009)

There's just no way (for the sake of my sanity) that I'm going to give my opinion. I just wanted to comment on the comments being made about how the reduction in smacking is the reason that kids are so badly behaved now....I think you'll find that if that tiny fact is related to the perceived rise in acting up by kids, it's only in a very small way.


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## JasonL (Oct 20, 2009)

My kids only use smack before party's and never before a school day.


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## JasonL (Oct 20, 2009)

All you young APS kiddies never went to a good Catholic school where the leather strap across the hand a few times was the norm, our creative technics teacher made a perspex bat, and he had a swing Federer would of been happy with..


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## Kersten (Oct 20, 2009)

JasonL said:


> All you young APS kiddies never went to a good Catholic school where the leather strap across the hand a few times was the norm, our creative technics teacher made a perspex bat, and he had a swing Federer would of been happy with..



:lol: we had a nun who would slam the lid of our desks down on our fingers or use a meter ruler when she was feeling generous and forgiving.


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## wokka (Oct 20, 2009)

Violence breeds violence. I dont recall being smacked more than a couple of times and havent smacked my 5 kids, now adults, more than a couple of times.


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## moosenoose (Oct 20, 2009)

I actually liked getting the Cane at school. I have to seek out other establishments to fulfil my desires these days  (I guess you can't use that in a school debate either :lol


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Oct 20, 2009)

I went to a catholic school with a mean nun  

Even my mum didn't like her...


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## shamous1 (Oct 20, 2009)

*Smack*

I was smacked when I did something wrong or something that was dangerous.

I smacked my kids when they were young and if they were being spoilt brats, fighting or doing something dangerous.

I'm sick of people saying you should'nt smack. I repsect their opinion if they choose not to but I don't appreciate being told that it's wrong.

My argument is this; When I was a kid the teachers could give us the strap, the Police were able to give crooks and the like a bit of a touch up. There was a certain amount of respect paid to teachers, Police and any other person in authority including parents.

These days it is : Don't touch me or I'll sue. Police can;t even slap handcuffs on people for fear of being labelled with a Police brutallity charge, teachers cop being spat at / sworn at etc etc.

Discipline is what is needed, especially in these times. I had respect for people when I was young. If we did something wrong an adult would threaten to kick us in the a$$. If we have a go at kids these days they will threaten to stab or bash you.

Just to finish off I am not implying that the youth of today all have no respect because the vast majority do.


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## -Matt- (Oct 20, 2009)

I was smacked as a child and I think it shaped me into who I am now. When I have children I will smack then, not hard enough to hurt them but more for the shock factor and only on the backside.

My dad has scars up his arms from getting hit by teachers with metal rulers when he was at school. He was a trouble making kid though and says that he deserved them and made him the person he is now.

I have to say though that when I was in my teens I had respect for older people and never mouthed off to anyone, today younger kids seem to have no respect or fear for older people and push the limits of what they can get away with. There is a lack of discipline in todays society.


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## Sturdy (Oct 20, 2009)

shamous1 said:


> I was smacked when I did something wrong or something that was dangerous.
> 
> I smacked my kids when they were young and if they were being spoilt brats, fighting or doing something dangerous.
> 
> ...



100% agree mate, i was flogged and i learned my lesson really quick.


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## vrhq08 (Oct 20, 2009)

i was smacked as a kid i honestly can only remember copping it twice but after copping a good smack the threat off one is enough to put you off doing anything. when i have children i will smack them, i cant stand all this new age ask your child to choose their words and try and reason with an infant. you show them whats right and wrong if they slip up show them there is consiquences.


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## Twin_Rivers (Oct 20, 2009)

I do not think smacking is the evil that some make it out to be, I was smacked and I smack my son but only after sveral warnings and only as a last resort.
The comment that people are making that smacking is why kids have no respect I do not think is right. They have no respect because they do not need any, life is too easy, they do not need to do well at school they do not need references and they do not need to achieve anything because they are supported to not have respect. The lack of respect is because they have no respect for themselves, they never achieve any sucess in either acedemic or career. Make life harder for people who are capable of working who choose not to, increase penalties for breaking the law. 
They should be given just enough to live and nothing more.
just my opinion sorry was a bit off track


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## shamous1 (Oct 20, 2009)

*Smack*

On a side note I could probably sue the a$$ off my old primary school.

I was in grade 6 and we were playing soccer and I kicked a ball that went through a window.
I got called up to the office and admitted that it was me. The Vice Principal then gave me 6 of the best with a piece of leather2" wide x 12" long and around 50mm thick. Landed down pretty hard too. Mind you this was all done without consent from my parents.

The same year I copped the strap again. A mate and myself were mucking around with rulers in class and mine happened to hit the window and cracked it. Once again I was given 6 of the best but the last one just knicked the little finger and I giggled (as it actually hurt more even though it just touched the finger. I then copped 6 on the other hand.

I beleive that both of these strapping sessions did not prove anything and I also believe I did'nt deserve them, especially without the consent of my parents.

Smacking should only be done by the parents or guardian. Times are changing I guess but discipline never hurt anyone.


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## discomat (Oct 20, 2009)

definately as a last resort if the child isnt behaving. i believe you should give the kid a chance to behave or at least a warning before hitting him/her whenever they do something wrong. having said that some people have anger issues etc and hit too hard or hit when another form of punishment would have been more productive. also dont hit other peoples kids haha


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## Weezer (Oct 20, 2009)

I will NEVER smack my daughter- what example is that teaching them ? If you can't solve a problem, just resort to violence...> Or, if you have a physical advantage, use it to your advantage ...? 

If you need to smack your kids it is most probably because you are frustrated or lack the social/parental/negotiating skills necessary to adequately discipline and teach your children.


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## moosenoose (Oct 20, 2009)

Weezer said:


> I will NEVER smack my daughter- what example is that teaching them ? If you can't solve a problem, just resort to violence...> Or, if you have a physical advantage, use it to your advantage ...?
> 
> If you need to smack your kids it is most probably because you are frustrated or lack the social/parental/negotiating skills necessary to adequately discipline and teach your children.



Tut tut, no need to get pointy touchy about it ..... I guess you don't have to deal with bickering kids do you? 8)  You'd never have kept me under control with that attitude :lol:


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## m_beardie (Oct 20, 2009)

Rox.n.Lix said:


> yay, some other people realised this thread was asking for help in a school debate, not to carry out an online debate.
> (btw, i have seen my cousins wife 'smack' her daughter across the face (5 years old) for misbehaving. it made me sick to my stomach.)
> beardie_m, MrHappy and jessb have given you some really good points for the affirmative (better than mine! though i hope mine helped...)
> Good luck!!


thanks so much! every single reply that i have read (i haven't read all of them yet sorry i didnt expect this to be so long) i really like what jessb gave me and dame with MrHappy. about your cousin's wife, my dads cousin's wife gave me a slap across the face when i was very young because i was crying. i was APPAULED and it caused a huge fight. i just couldn't believe it. i have started writing my arguments and the debate is on monday. i have learnt from my mistakes at last debates and i think this ones gonna be pretty good


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## GSXR_Boy (Oct 20, 2009)

Smacking is something i enjoy still to this day! :shock: ( jokes, i jest )


I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as you are not beating the crap of them a smack on the bum/hand never hurt anybody.


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## whcasual79 (Oct 20, 2009)

defo smack em ... i was smacked and belted ... have to be done to keep em in line


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## jezza (Oct 20, 2009)

I take my 5 darlin girls shopping and see the carnage of kids that were obviously not smacked, i feel embarased for the parents but then stop and think, its there own falut. My kids were never smaked hard, just at approprite time to understand that if Dad say's no, thats probably what he means and not really worth pushing the issue.
Every where I go wheather its shopping or a restarunt or out to a bbq or party type shindig people always comment on how well behaved they are. There are other ways to get the same desired effect such as grounding , banning from tv or fav toy but I think most people who choose that path give in and the kids win. And you see that so often in public when a parent says "No Johny" and the child starts to argue the point!!!!!
Anyway Im off my soap box now! So its a yes to a smack in the rite circumstance and place! but there are other ways if you stick to your guns!
Jezza


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## m_beardie (Oct 20, 2009)

well for my part i am doing how it could affect the children and alternatives to smacking , eg. rewarding good behavior rather than disciplining bad behavior so they will want to do more good things.


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## Andrais (Oct 20, 2009)

u don't want to know wht my dad does to me....
i disagree for kids to be smacked, simply becasue im going through that process and i know how it feels to be slapped by someone whos supose to love u. I think thats just my opinion because i get smacked for doing the wrong stuff but never praised for doing the right, and i might not get as much love or attention from my parents simply because there working all the time and don't have that time to spend with me. In the future if i ever had kids, i would never smack them becasue i beleive it destroys the relationship between kids and parents and is damaging to there growing mind EG: one kid thats being smacked at home might think its ok to smack another kid at school when they've done something wrong thinking that they did the right thing, which also might lead to domestic violence in the future....just my opinion.


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## m_beardie (Oct 20, 2009)

does your dad smack you at 13? that's tight i would be absolutely horrified if my dad smacked me now!


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## garycahill (Oct 20, 2009)

Rainbow-Serpent said:


> I went to a catholic school with a mean nun
> 
> Even my mum didn't like her...


 

Nuns are evil! :evil:


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## jessb (Oct 20, 2009)

Aussiebluetongue said:


> u don't want to know wht my dad does to me....
> i disagree for kids to be smacked, simply becasue im going through that process and i know how it feels to be slapped by someone whos supose to love u. I think thats just my opinion because i get smacked for doing the wrong stuff but never praised for doing the right, and i might not get as much love or attention from my parents simply because there working all the time and don't have that time to spend with me. In the future if i ever had kids, i would never smack them becasue i beleive it destroys the relationship between kids and parents and is damaging to there growing mind EG: one kid thats being smacked at home might think its ok to smack another kid at school when they've done something wrong thinking that they did the right thing, which also might lead to domestic violence in the future....just my opinion.


 
OMG that's really sad! That kind of goes back to what I said about parents treating kids with respect and dignity. He is clearly taking out his own frustrations on you rather than genuinely caring about disciplining you. In order to hit a 13 yo boy hard enough to have any effect, he must be whacking you pretty hard...

You sound pretty mature, so maybe its about time you sat down with your dad and explained to him that you are old enough to take responsibility for a few things in your life, and you would appreciate it if he would stop disciplining you physically if you are willing to show that you are an adult. Perhaps suggest other punishments like losing TV privileges or grounding would be more appropriate for someone your age. In return, you could tell him that you woud prefer it if he explained what you have done wrong if you misbehave and perhaps half an hour later give an appropriate punishment, instead of him just flying off the handle at you.


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## Hetty (Oct 20, 2009)

Too many parents smack their children when they're frustrated or angry, and hurt their children. Even if you ignore that, as Weezer has said, resorting to violence isn't the solution. Heaps of the 'bratty' kids these days hit other kids, I wonder where they learned that from? If kids are getting more bratty, it's probably due to technology combined with the absence of parents who are at work most of the time these days (which, yes, is quite necessary in today's society).


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## Weezer (Oct 20, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> Tut tut, no need to get pointy touchy about it ..... I guess you don't have to deal with bickering kids do you? 8)  You'd never have kept me under control with that attitude :lol:



My post wasn't aimed at anyone- and, ummm.. might wanna do some research before you make assumptions- maybe view the odd gallery or just read a man's sig...  

And my approach works for me- perhaps your hypothetical scenario is more a self assessment than a judgement of my parental abilities -

I was caned and beaten by primary school teachers, then on the way home by local thugs, then by my folks when they came home- i was beaten like a drum as a young kid and all I learnt was that I could take a beating- and that I would NEVER touch my kid- I made that decision at 9 years old and I stick with it now- along with the decision to take up martial arts and snap the fingers of anybody who attempted to hurt me again !!

Funnily enough it was MMA that taught me there was actually another solution. The irony !!

.. and I have never felt physically threatened by a child....

So when I hear that old excuse often used by molesters and aggressive adults that they suffered as a child and therefore that is the root of the problem- NO WAY. Poor judgement and self discipline is the problem there....if you look at a child's behaviour and somehow think it rlates to whether the child was hit or not- well, ...what can I say- obviously that means that hitting is the answer to the world's problems hey ?

i better go hit my kid right now- I find though that kneeling down and talking to her calmly and directly in the eye does wonders- they accept the advice and feel as though they are being treated like a grown up. I will save my beatings for her boyfriends when she turns 16 


....and now I'm ducking out of this before we all start swinging !

anyone who would like to take me to task- feel free to PM me.


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## moosenoose (Oct 21, 2009)

Weezer said:


> My post wasn't aimed at anyone- and, ummm.. might wanna do some research before you make assumptions- maybe view the odd gallery or just read a man's sig...
> 
> And my approach works for me- perhaps your hypothetical scenario is more a self assessment than a judgement of my parental abilities -
> 
> ...



:lol: I'm not having a go. Clearly it's worked for you. I was just assuming you have one child that's all??? I can read  

When you have 2 or more that calm approach doesn't always work I'm afraid. I can quite happily admit I don't smack my 13yr old ...actually I don't smack my 10yr old either...my 8yr is rarely pulled up on anything these days - funny, my methods seemed to have worked :lol: ....the reasoning actually works when they are listening to you and old enough to understand, but when you have 2 siblings going hammer and tong at each other, and fighting (because that's actually a natural occurrence between siblings believe it or not) sometimes a little helping hand is required to steer wayward, unfocused kids back on track.

Personally, I copped beating after beating from an abusive parent, but does that make me damaged goods? Does that mean I'm automatically going to put my kids through the same abusive situation because the old man knocked the sense out of me, or does it mean my soft corporal approach to my young children by giving them a smack on the wrist is this low form of abuse everyone is trying to make out it is??? .....hardly. 

At the end of the day, I'm glad for you and that whatever you are doing is working for you. Fact is, it doesn't work on all kids. I appreciate this is a debate, and I also appreciate you're giving an interesting angle on alternative, less invasive methods of control. But lets not paint a picture about the parents who take this approach as supposedly evil, unintelligent and abusive beings who are too stupid to know any better.

ps: I've also done 9yrs of martial arts......I won't take a beating off anyone either :lol:


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## stretch101 (Oct 21, 2009)

wow! just read thru the thread... i am a mother of two little boys and i have to say, the oldest gets smacked. not often and not hard, but hard enough to get his attention. i have tried the less invasive ways of disciplining him, talking to him and whatnot but i have found that it just doesnt work. i was flogged and mentally abused as a child and a teen and so i know the damage it can cause. it has taught me the difference between discipline and abuse.
i find it truly offensive that ppl actually regard parets that smack as uber aggressive and have lower iqs! i would loveto see them come into my house and try kneeling down and 'talking' to my son, or sending him to the naughty corner hahaha especially during a tantrum. i have found tho, as he is getting older that he responds to the countdown...he understands that if i get to three he will get a smacked bum, and that its just not worth it. i am constantly receiving compliments on how well behaved and polite hunter is, he plays beautifully with other children, loves to share and brimming with self confidence and love.
all i have to say to the parents who dont smack is hats off to ya! but i think it is so wrong for u to make jugements on the parenting skills of those who do smack, thats just not on


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## learner74 (Oct 21, 2009)

my mother was a single parent with 4 kids, my sister has spina bifida so it wasn"t easy for mum. If my brothers and i played up to much we got smacked, she did not have the time for the talks, time out, etc. She also worked full time and if our chores were not done we got smacked. We wagged school we got a spanking! 
Now as an adult, with my own kids(3), i work part-time, i do have more time with my kids. I do try all types of discipline on my kids, from no dessert to no tv, no freinds over to canceling b'day partys. And you know what some days none of them work so they get a smack. And when they get smacked, they do as they are told and know i am serious! A smack ever done me any harm nor will it do any harm to my kids(they may think it does at the time). And i will do it in the middle of iga if i need to!


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## stretch101 (Oct 21, 2009)

learner74 said:


> And i will do it in the middle of iga if i need to!


 
lol, my boy thought i wouldnt smack him in public (i didnt think i could either) untill last week he decided to throw the mother of all tantrums in the checkout line of coles!! i smacked his hand and had a stern word in his ear and he soon settled. but by god the looks i got from other ppl, firstly for not haveing him 'under control' and secondly for displining him!! i cant stand being judged like that!! i feel as parents we do the best we can with the tools we have... it is so unfortunate that others feel the need to openly judge ppl and make them feel stupid for trying their best. it really is a shame. dont talk down to those who smack their children harmlessly, there is so much real abuse and real crimes being committed against children. perhaps we should focus more on that


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## learner74 (Oct 21, 2009)

stretch101 said:


> lol, my boy thought i wouldnt smack him in public (i didnt think i could either) untill last week he decided to throw the mother of all tantrums in the checkout line of coles!! i smacked his hand and had a stern word in his ear and he soon settled. but by god the looks i got from other ppl, firstly for not haveing him 'under control' and secondly for displining him!! i cant stand being judged like that!! i feel as parents we do the best we can with the tools we have... it is so unfortunate that others feel the need to openly judge ppl and make them feel stupid for trying their best. it really is a shame. dont talk down to those who smack their children harmlessly, there is so much real abuse and real crimes being committed against children. perhaps we should focus more on that


I agree!


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## Weezer (Oct 21, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> :lol: I'm not having a go. Clearly it's worked for you. I was just assuming you have one child that's all??? I can read
> 
> When you have 2 or more that calm approach doesn't always work I'm afraid. I can quite happily admit I don't smack my 13yr old ...actually I don't smack my 10yr old either...my 8yr is rarely pulled up on anything these days - funny, my methods seemed to have worked :lol: ....the reasoning actually works when they are listening to you and old enough to understand, but when you have 2 siblings going hammer and tong at each other, and fighting (because that's actually a natural occurrence between siblings believe it or not) sometimes a little helping hand is required to steer wayward, unfocused kids back on track.
> 
> ...



Wow dude, nice reply. Respect.


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## redbellybite (Oct 21, 2009)

jezza said:


> I take my 5 darlin girls shopping and see the carnage of kids that were obviously not smacked, i feel embarased for the parents but then stop and think, its there own falut. My kids were never smaked hard, just at approprite time to understand that if Dad say's no, thats probably what he means and not really worth pushing the issue.
> Every where I go wheather its shopping or a restarunt or out to a bbq or party type shindig people always comment on how well behaved they are. There are other ways to get the same desired effect such as grounding , banning from tv or fav toy but I think most people who choose that path give in and the kids win. And you see that so often in public when a parent says "No Johny" and the child starts to argue the point!!!!!
> Anyway Im off my soap box now! So its a yes to a smack in the rite circumstance and place! but there are other ways if you stick to your guns!
> Jezza


totally Jezza ...it seems that the ones that are against us SMACKERS ...say we are being very violent ...seems they are getting a tad confused with a smack and a bashing ...you know you non smackers ...yelling at a child and dont say you lot have not done it ...is also a form of abuse ,if you really want to go down that do gooder lane ....each to their own ,,do what works for you ...
I have 4 great grown up kids ..very close in age ..so went through the whole process of tantrums and attitude and TEENAGES...they were smacked when they couldnt understand choices and consquences ...they got smacked when they knew the consquences and chose to ignore all other types of punishment ...and as teens well we didnt smack ..but deep down they knew not to push it with mum and dad cause if it come to that crunch ..smacking would have been an option ..
.Now my lot are all high school completed ,my last is doing year 12 this year ...he has already lined up an apprenticeship doing plumbing, at the moment he is doing the school based and has been so for two years...
My two daughters are working full time ,one as a manager of a hotel ,the other is studying to be a teacher and holds a full time job down at woolies ,while studying ...
My oldest son is a IT officer at the local council ...so yeah they turned out really bad you know ,coming from an abusive smacking household


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## moosenoose (Oct 21, 2009)

Weezer said:


> Wow dude, nice reply. Respect.



And I do hear what you are saying, and hats off to you for sticking to your guns  Cheers mate


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## twylaskye (Oct 21, 2009)

In regards to smacking causing low IQ's, i can definitely see this as being viable. The idea of smacking is to discipline a child for doing the wrong thing. Usually this causes fear in a child and it is this fear that stops a child from continuing the 'bad' behaviour. But if a child is scared and stressed learning does not occur. At a young age children learn all the time and through everyday life. Fear overtakes the learning response. If a child is continuously smacked then it is very hard to facillitate learning. 

And if you say its ok to smack its very hard to put a definitive answer on what is appropriate. One parent who smacks may only do so when he or she believes the child has done something extremely bad and must be steered in the right direction and reasoning is not working. Whereas another may believe it is ok to smack a child for something very minor that really could have been reasoned over. Resulting in the child being smacked many times a day. This is not reinforcing good behaviour. If the parent beleives they are doing the right thing by their child, how can someone else say this is wrong. There is a very fine line between discipline and abuse and sometimes it is very hard to find.

While i'm not saying i disagree with smacking i think the problem is that there is nothing to ensure consistency is being used. In many instances parents are at work often and hardly see there kids (yes in todays society this is hard to avoid). When they do and the child acts up the child is disciplined with smacking. Eventually the child sees the relationship with the parent as a negative thing. Also many parents merely punish 'bad' behaviour and forget to reward the good.
I have never had to smack my daughter and hope i never have to. However there are definitley some kids out there that reasoning and naughty corners just wont work for.


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## redbellybite (Oct 21, 2009)

You know, isnt a form of fear a healthy response?
Adults, as you and I ,have a form of fear that prevents us from doing the wrong thing ...sometimes its after we do the event and are hit with the consquences,and remember how we felt and that fear of never wanting to do it again ,is what stops us from repeating it ...FEAR is not a bad thing to feel ...a child can feel just as scared and anxious being placed on a naughty chair or locked in their bedroom or standing against a wall ..a smack is a quick action done then and there ..it stops the bad activity or dangerous act that the child was doing at the time ..its no use telling your child ,when your out shopping ,especially at the ages of 3-6 ,that they are being naughty and when you get home ,which could be in a few hours ,so by the time you do get there ,the child has forgotten about the idle threat you told them about 3 hours ago ...and cant understand why your doing it now ...there are parents out there that will always cross the line ..regardless of the law ..they may stop it in public ..but that kid/ if they are from an abusive home will cop it behind closed doors and in most of those cases it is excessive...where as the run of the mill parent like most of us that say a good smack on the bum is ok ..will have no hesitation to do it in public ..as it is not abusive its only discipline .


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## Kersten (Oct 21, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> You know, isnt a form of fear a healthy response?


The ability to feel fear is healthy, the abscence of it and other emotions would be a scary thing, sociopaths wouldn't make comforting housemates. But using fear as a method of control....no, that isn't healthy.


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## redbellybite (Oct 21, 2009)

Kersten said:


> The ability to feel fear is healthy, the abscence of it and other emotions would be a scary thing, sociopaths wouldn't make comforting housemates. But using fear as a method of control....no, that isn't healthy.


 so telling a child, who absolutely hates the naughty chair or corner, ,that they are to remain on that or stand there, isnt the same type of 'fear' control?


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## Kersten (Oct 21, 2009)

You're not being particularly clear here. Do they hate it or fear it? If they fear it then yes, it's wrong. If they hate it because they'll be bored, they simply don't want to do as they're told etc, then no it isn't wrong - it also isn't fear.


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## TahneeMaree (Oct 21, 2009)

Fear its self or the fear of the consequence? (spelling)
Fearing the person is not good
Fearing the what you might recieve for something bad that you have done IS good
IMO

My parentals were the king and Queen of the wooden spoon, belt strap and the dreaded thong... though we got snacked we KNEW it was because of something we did, we were asked to stop, then warned and then smacked, and later (when we had stopped crying) it was explained to us why it was done, and often got a cuddle... we never feared our parentals, just feared for the result of what we had done/not done... After a while it turned to punishment of the material kind, loss of toys, bannings from TV/PC time etc..

At times I HATED them, well felt that I did because I saw all the other kids getting off so light... but now that I see how I have turned out and how they have turned out and how some young children that I know are turning out I am actually glad they were so stern... 

Ha Ha to this day I still get punished for sticking my nose out... not for the things I do, but for being dis-respectful / narky at/to the parentals or anyone else... It only goes so far as a choice word or two for punishment...


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## twylaskye (Oct 21, 2009)

I think the 'fear' of being hit by someone who you beleive to love you is not a healthy response. Fair enough if the smacking as a discipline only occurs rarely, but for those kids that get 'disciplined' for minor things frequently it can lead to a very disturbing relationship between parent and child. Yes there will always be those who take it to far. But by saying smacking is ok in general, they are given a bit of an excuse. Some may not know that they are doing the wrong thing. They may think that other people smack their children when they are naughty, i just have extra naughty children so need to do it more often. Often children harbour anger towards their parents. When i was a child i spent much of my time thinking of ways to get back at my parents if i was smacked, or find better ways to not get caught. I didn't like being hit and i would prefer not to do that to my child. Dealing with children as a teacher, the majority of the kids that misbehave are those whose parents are always working and have no time for them except to discipline when they do the wrong thing. These children seem to have no regard for adults and see those around them as not caring for them and think why should they care for anyone else. I think more time should be focused on encouraging and rewarding the good things that children do. Fair enough if the child is doing something dangerous or very bad, give them a smack if it will quickly cease the action, but make sure you explain why and encourage their good behaviour.


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## moosenoose (Oct 21, 2009)

twylaskye said:


> I think the 'fear' of being hit by someone who you beleive to love you is not a healthy response. Fair enough if the smacking as a discipline only occurs rarely, but for those kids that get 'disciplined' for minor things frequently it can lead to a very disturbing relationship between parent and child. Yes there will always be those who take it to far. But by saying smacking is ok in general, they are given a bit of an excuse. Some may not know that they are doing the wrong thing. They may think that other people smack their children when they are naughty, i just have extra naughty children so need to do it more often. Often children harbour anger towards their parents. When i was a child i spent much of my time thinking of ways to get back at my parents if i was smacked, or find better ways to not get caught. I didn't like being hit and i would prefer not to do that to my child. Dealing with children as a teacher, the majority of the kids that misbehave are those whose parents are always working and have no time for them except to discipline when they do the wrong thing. These children seem to have no regard for adults and see those around them as not caring for them and think why should they care for anyone else. I think more time should be focused on encouraging and rewarding the good things that children do. Fair enough if the child is doing something dangerous or very bad, give them a smack if it will quickly cease the action, but make sure you explain why and encourage their good behaviour.



2 good posts in a row. Valid and interesting points.

To be honest I do find it ironic, that when I'm in public, and having brought up my kids with the “smack-technique” – I think we can refer to it as that :lol:...that sometimes I see other parents in supermarkets and similar places smacking kids for no visibly viable or justified reason, and certainly to a degree where I think the parent has clearly over-reacted. Often I think to myself “why don’t you just chill, it’s a little kid for Christs sake, he/she is just a bit excited, you could have approached that much better”. Sometimes it’s almost like parents feel obliged to smack their kids through some external pressure of believing people might view them as “better parents” because they are seen publically as keeping their kids in line? Just an observation.

It wouldn’t hurt that when you have kids people are given some support in how to deal with a lot of the problems that can occur with kids. Certainly I’ll agree that many parents, including myself, aren’t armed with a whole series of techniques and tools to deal with these occurrences. I wasn’t blessed with a genetic implant when the kids were born…..I wish I was! :lol: Most times parents are relying on their own upbringing or instinct, and sometimes that isn’t enough, or even correct. There are two situations I think can cause damage. One is the parent who does absolutely nothing and lets little Jonny or little Kimmy (I’m not angling at anyone here by the way :lol get away with murder, then there is the other parent who goes over the top and over the mark and is abusive “physically” and/or “verbally”. Somewhere in the middle of that is the parent who is trying hard to bring up a child/children who will show others respect and courtesy, and by doing so will fit into society, be well adapted and armed with the knowledge that there are consequences for poor decisions or inappropriate behaviour. 

When’s this damned project due anyway? :lol:


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## redbellybite (Oct 21, 2009)

as said to ...fear of the consequences is what I meant ...
I know parents that have never smacked their kids ever ..but their parenting skills were hopeless 
bribing ,threatening stupid things like getting rid of their pets etc ....saying things like we wont love you or I wont be your friend etc ...telling them that their dead grandad is watching them ...none of it worked well for them ..Their kids had them bluffed ,especially at shopping ..when their demanding that the parents buy them this or they will run a muck ....and they did if they didnt get what they wanted then and there ...it was so bloody embarrasing...naughty chairs ,taking things away grounding them did nothing ...these kids if given that type of punishment from these parents ,would then go and be destructive to the house or their cars etc ...and I am talking ages between 4 and 10 ...so in the end to save the hasslle the parents just gave in ...the kids are now 19 ,17 ,15 ,13 and 10 ...3 boys and 2 girls ...and are still nightmares and didnt complete school and are now all at home doing nothing ...the younger two are at school but not doing well and spend more time at home ...
CONSISTANCY regardless of what you use towards your kids is the key ..if you make a threat of either spanking or grounding or naughty chair ..what ever it maybe ...FOLLOW IT THROUGH ..otherwise you will be in the end the child and ruled by your offspring...


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## FAY (Oct 21, 2009)

I know a single parent who didn't discipline her kids.
Her youngest son, who is now an adult actually hits her!!!


I find it very hard to feel sorry for her.

If I had even swore at mine, I would not of lived to see the next day.


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## Weezer (Oct 21, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> as said to ...fear of the consequences is what I meant ...
> I know parents that have never smacked their kids ever ..but their parenting skills were hopeless
> bribing ,threatening stupid things like getting rid of their pets etc ....saying things like we wont love you or I wont be your friend etc ...telling them that their dead grandad is watching them ...none of it worked well for them ..Their kids had them bluffed ,especially at shopping ..when their demanding that the parents buy them this or they will run a muck ....and they did if they didnt get what they wanted then and there ...it was so bloody embarrasing...naughty chairs ,taking things away grounding them did nothing ...these kids if given that type of punishment from these parents ,would then go and be destructive to the house or their cars etc ...and I am talking ages between 4 and 10 ...so in the end to save the hasslle the parents just gave in ...the kids are now 19 ,17 ,15 ,13 and 10 ...3 boys and 2 girls ...and are still nightmares and didnt complete school and are now all at home doing nothing ...the younger two are at school but not doing well and spend more time at home ...
> CONSISTANCY regardless of what you use towards your kids is the key ..if you make a threat of either spanking or grounding or naughty chair ..what ever it maybe ...FOLLOW IT THROUGH ..otherwise you will be in the end the child and ruled by your offspring...



Dead on. You cant change the rules up mid-game...


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## redbellybite (Oct 21, 2009)

GARTHNFAY said:


> I know a single parent who didn't discipline her kids.
> Her youngest son, who is now an adult actually hits her!!!
> 
> 
> ...


 that is terrible ...:shock:


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## TahneeMaree (Oct 21, 2009)

I know one family where they tried to take control of their children when they reached their teens... the oldest rebelled shockingly, moved out, drugs, sleeping around etc... used to come back home whenever her parentals contacted her and beat her mother, smashed windows and told the police that her mother was beating her and it's why she left... the mother even showed the police the bruises that the daughter had given her... almost lost her (then about 1-3 year old? I can't remember his exact age) son to child welfare because of the lies her oldest daughter told... eventually she came home, still being an absolute ******* telling her parentals she was preggers, then magically he had a mis carriage without missing a day of school... I dunno what's happening now, it's not spoken about anymore...


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## m_beardie (Oct 21, 2009)

wow! thanks for all the info, i honestly didn't expect this thread to run so long! last debate my speech was too short. but WOW i think it might be too long now  better longer than shorter.
thanks everyone!!


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## jessb (Oct 21, 2009)

Kersten said:


> The ability to feel fear is healthy, the abscence of it and other emotions would be a scary thing, sociopaths wouldn't make comforting housemates. But using fear as a method of control....no, that isn't healthy.


 
I agree 100%


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## azn4114 (Oct 21, 2009)

my punishment was a dose of pepper to the face,prob would of prefered a smack,lol


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## twylaskye (Oct 21, 2009)

Make sure you define your topic properly. Key words i would be focusing on are smacking/spanking and children. Have done debating with students before in regards to children as a topic. The affirmative defined child as someone under 18 whereas the negative challenged this saying that a child is someone who has yet to enter their teens. I thought this was great as we do treat a 'child' differently to a 'teen'. So again make sure you have good defintions that cant be challenged too easily by the negative as it may affect your argument. Good luck with it all.


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## mrs_davo (Oct 21, 2009)

The reason that there is so many delinquints today is that the have never been disciplined 
ie: spanked/.smacked
There is a huge difference between spanking/smacking and flogging your child.
I was smacked as a child - not only with the hand, but the wooden spoon, fly swat , thong etc
It never did me any harm
My children were smacked as well , and occasionally they got the wooden spoon and it never did them any harm - if anything the opposite.
They know the difference of right from wrong.
NO ONE was going to tell me that I COULD NOT DISCIPLINE my children.
If I had the time over again, I would not do anything different.
Maybe these dogooders need to take a good look at the REAL world and pull their head out of the sand.


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## bk201 (Oct 21, 2009)

of course beat down those kids isnt violence the answer to all your problems...

it is really amazing how stupid some of you people are...seriously...i knew alot of older people were not exactly rocket scientists but ....i think some of you have hit a new low...

i wonder how many people who were hit as kids have grown up to do drugs and how many of these so called brats are actually your own creations...so growing up with violence being a normal thing ...only creates a violent generation...

but remember its okay your not abusing your children because you not hiting them that badly...or they are your own....hm wonder what would happen if you smacked someone elses kids the same way...assult charges maybe...


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## FAY (Oct 21, 2009)

bk201 said:


> of course beat down those kids isnt violence the answer to all your problems...
> 
> it is really amazing how stupid some of you people are...seriously...i knew alot of older people were not exactly rocket scientists but ....i think some of you have hit a new low...
> 
> ...



Everyone has a difference of opinion, doesn't make the person 'stupid' just because it differs from yours.......


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## elapid66 (Oct 21, 2009)

azn4114 said:


> my punishment was a dose of pepper to the face,prob would of prefered a smack,lol


:shock:


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## Kersten (Oct 21, 2009)

azn4114 said:


> my punishment was a dose of pepper to the face,prob would of prefered a smack,lol



And I thought giving my son a mouthful of vinegar when he tried to throw a tantrum was mean lol. Before anyone laughs it off....it worked a treat! :lol:


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## shamous1 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Beg yours*



bk201 said:


> of course beat down those kids isnt violence the answer to all your problems...
> 
> it is really amazing how stupid some of you people are...seriously...i knew alot of older people were not exactly rocket scientists but ....i think some of you have hit a new low...
> 
> ...



Opinions are one thing but when you start calling people stupid....well I have to draw the line.

I was smacked as kid. I grew up fine. I have also worked in law enforcement and as a result am very very street wise and have seen some things in life that the average person will never dream of seeing.

I have smacked my kids in the past but never went postal on them. My daughter is 17 she is very smart.........an "A" grade student. My two sons 16 and 14 are also very smart. They are also very street wise and this is the way they have been brought up. They will go on in life having had fairly strict parents but at the same time pretty easy going parents. AND they will grow up into responsible adults as a result

How has smacking hitting a new low and how dare you judge people by making such comments. It's generally (and yest I'm probably stero typing here) people who's parents did not give a ***** about them that would go overboard and as a result these kids would rebel and do drugs.

Take a look at what you wrote......as it probably needs to be rephrased somewhat.


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## poguebono (Oct 21, 2009)

Consider this: If you were angry with an adult who did the wrong thing, would you smack them to make them understand? Why then is it deemed OK to hit a child?


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## Hetty (Oct 21, 2009)

poguebono said:


> Why then is it deemed OK to hit a child?



Because children are smaller :lol:

I agree with you, it's pretty ridiculous.


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## zulu (Oct 21, 2009)

*re debate*

My wife spanks zulu when hes naughty,ooh yeh baby!


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## m_beardie (Oct 21, 2009)

well we just got together for a meeting today and i'm discussing why smacking is not moral and i'm also going to talk about how it may have been acceptable in earlier times but they ahve changed now etc. and i was thinking of mentioning that story about hte woman who hit her kids with the wooden spoon (has been recently in the news) what does everyone think?


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## Pythonking (Oct 21, 2009)

My daughters a little terror so far but I don't really want to smack her I know i probably will eventually as she gets a little older but I know it'll break my heart when i do, I do think its a necessary evil but I'm not looking forward to it.


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## m_beardie (Oct 21, 2009)

my dad smacked me when it was necessary when i was very young, but as i grew a bit older, my parents started rewarding me or doing the write thing rather than the other way around. for example when i did something good they would give me a gold star and when i got 10 i would get a present. this made me behave better because i wanted to get more gold stars to get a gift


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## shamous1 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Smack*

I think people need to keep in mind the difference between a smack (i.e. light tap) and a full on beating. If it is used everyday I would say a smack is way over the top but used now and then a smack should be deemed ok.

It is a parents personal choice. Once it goes turns into a belting then the line has been corssed but a parent giving a smack to their child should'nt not have the threat of prosecution etc hanging over their heads.

My sister-in-law chooses not to smack and I don't knock her for it, nor does she when I have smacked mine in the past.

Hope your debate goes great. Let us know how you fair. Pardon the pun but give the other side a smacking for us.


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## billiemay (Oct 21, 2009)

I think only smack if they do something really really horrid, otherwise i'm sure there are things special to them you can take away for a while. Mum used to tell me she'd throw out my toys and it calmed me down fine. Also you have to consider why they did what they did it and maybe its a problem with parenting. They wont learn not to do something becuase its wrong, only to avoid punishment.


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## jessb (Oct 21, 2009)

shamous1 said:


> It is a parents personal choice.


 
What about abusing a child? Is that the personal choice? What about not sending your child to school? Or feeding your child exclusively on junk food? Is that a personal choice?


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## bk201 (Oct 22, 2009)

yes could have re-worded it better but i meant the new low thing when people were reffering to the problem with younger people is that they were not hit enough.


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## redbellybite (Oct 22, 2009)

this is obviously an issue that will never be fully agreed on ...so in regards to your qusetions about to smack or not to smack ..you have gotten plenty of debated comments ...hope this helps you ...maybe you should just print this thread out 9 pages ..and show your teacher


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## m_beardie (Oct 22, 2009)

haha! this is so long, i was reading it during school. hahaa. debate is on monday and im kinda exciteed  does anyone else debate?


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## licky (Oct 23, 2009)

smack em when there bad


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## m_beardie (Dec 10, 2009)

just to let everyone know (sorry its a bit late) but we won our debate  thanks to everyne


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## Southside Morelia (Dec 10, 2009)

That's the problem with society today..."don't smack that's abuse"...BS, as long as (some already have said in this thread)...you don't smack in anger, but after multiple warnings and IF a child does something they have been told not to do previously and is antisocial or dangerous to others or themselves. A smack never hurt me or my siblings long term, I came from a large family and ALL us kids got smacked when continually naughty and we all grew up holding great jobs, having wives/husbands and respecting Society and its rules.
A funny story, Mum tried to hit me and my younger Brother with a wooden spoon on a couple of occasions when we were teenagers and because of the air gap with the concave shape of the spoon, it doesn't hurt and she broke a few wooden spoons in the process....we all had a laugh when Mum tried to be tough, which broke the ice and she never did it again.....:lol::lol: She was smart and this strategy only cost her money replacing wooden spoons!


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## Jungletrans (Dec 10, 2009)

When l was at school they had the strap and some teachers used wooden 1 metre rulers on us . Didnt stop us from playing up , just taught us how to take the pain without showing emotion in front of the other kids . l rarely touched my kids , just a vague threat and a growl would work when little , now they actualy listen to reason .


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## LegsDiamond (Dec 10, 2009)

I have a novel idea. Instead of smacking a child because they did wrong why not teach them the right way and explain what they did wrong and how to fix it.
I don't smack my children 5 and 2 and I never will. I personally couldn't think of anything worse that my protectors hitting me and the amount of trust I would lose towards the smacker.
Both my children are very well behaved.

People in life piss me off to no end but I don't resort to "smacking" to get my point across, set boundaries, instill values and good communication and your child will be an angel


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## garycahill (Dec 10, 2009)

It seems good enough to smack a snake with a shovel, why not a child?

Seriously, it taught me right from wrong & I doubt anything else was going to.
I don't see that there is a problem with it as long as it as used as dicipline.


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## IgotFrogs (Dec 10, 2009)

personaly i strongly belive there is a big difference between child abuse and a tap on the hand as they reach for a boiling pot of water say ...... My children are taught respect and to always show manners to the point its not the norm anymore i get comments from people in shops and so on about how well mannered mychildren are ..... when they were little they did get a tap on the hand if needed again there is a HUGE difference between teaching right from wrong and child abuse .....
People wonder why children today show no one any respect .... i think this is the answer right here ..... very few people teaching their children right from wrong .......


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## LegsDiamond (Dec 10, 2009)

IgotFrogs said:


> personaly i strongly belive there is a big difference between child abuse and a tap on the hand as they reach for a boiling pot of water say ...... My children are taught respect and to always show manners to the point its not the norm anymore i get comments from people in shops and so on about how well mannered mychildren are ..... when they were little they did get a tap on the hand if needed again there is a HUGE difference between teaching right from wrong and child abuse .....
> People wonder why children today show no one any respect .... i think this is the answer right here ..... very few people teaching their children right from wrong .......


So people should smack their children to teach respect? I think that is teaching them the exact opposite


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## garycahill (Dec 10, 2009)

LegsDiamond said:


> So people should smack their children to teach respect? I think that is teaching them the exact opposite


 
Maybe read the post before going off in a rant.

Taught respect & smacked when reaching for a pot of hot water are to completely different things, unless you think Frogs is teaching respect for a pot of hot water.


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## Dipcdame (Dec 10, 2009)

At school, we had a primary teacher (back in the early 60's), who would, as with every teacher at the time, have everyone line up with their work to get it marked as we finished it. Maths was always dreaded, cause as we lined up, the teacher would mark our work, and for every one we got wrong, we would get a slap across the legs for it, then she's continue to mark till the next wrong one, and the routine continued.............. sounds barbaric, but I tell you what, we soon learned to be careful and precise with our work, AND to double check it before going up to her!!!!!!! LOL NEVER did us any harm, other than a sting for aminute or two.

AND......... IGotFrogs, I totally agree with you there! It's the manneers (please and thank you), and knowing right from wrong that is soooo lacking these days!
The headmistress would wear a tweed skirt suit type of thing, she had grey curly hair, and a little turned up nose. If you were sent to her office for the cane, she would stand in front of you, wielding the cane in the air, and declare "Now, this is going to hurt me far more than it is you"> It probably did, but we were never convinced of that!! LOL
The benefit of all that was that we grew up with a healthy respect for our elders, and we never gave any adults cheek or attitude, nor did we go around damaging others property like kids do these days!
My mother used to use a wooden spoon to thwack the tops of our legs which stung like billyo, but never injured us, it make us a heck of alot more determined to behave or at least, not get caught again!! LOL


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## LegsDiamond (Dec 10, 2009)

garycahill said:


> Maybe read the post before going off in a rant.
> 
> Taught respect & smacked when reaching for a pot of hot water are to completely different things, unless you think Frogs is teaching respect for a pot of hot water.






IgotFrogs said:


> People wonder why children today show no one any respect .... i think this is the answer right here ..... very few people teaching their children right from wrong .......



Perhaps your the one that needs to re-read the post?


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## Dipcdame (Dec 10, 2009)

IgotFrogs said:


> personaly i strongly belive there is a big difference between child abuse and a tap on the hand as they reach for a boiling pot of water say ...... My children are taught respect and to always show manners to the point its not the norm anymore i get comments from people in shops and so on about how well mannered mychildren are ..... when they were little they did get a tap on the hand if needed again there is a HUGE difference between teaching right from wrong and child abuse .....
> People wonder why children today show no one any respect .... i think this is the answer right here ..... very few people teaching their children right from wrong .......



TOTALLY agree, it's the simple things, the little things that aren't taught these days, manners, Please and Thank you, and respect is sadly lacking these days!


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## garycahill (Dec 10, 2009)

legsdiamond said:


> perhaps your the one that needs to re-read the post?


 
lmfao


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## antaresia_boy (Dec 10, 2009)

cool, teach 'em to deal with conflict through hitting! 

honestly, no offence to anyone who does, but I was never smacked, and I won't do it when I have kids.


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## Walker (Dec 10, 2009)

I got smacked and still do to this day only with a bigger spoon...lol


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## SyKeD (Dec 10, 2009)

i wouldn't call it smacking, i'd say applying pressure to ones bum or hand hahah.. 

When i have kids ( long time away ) i'd probably try and sit the kid down and tell them in a strong firm voice tell them no and maybe a little time out depending on what it is... Alot can be done with just the tone of your voice


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## garycahill (Dec 10, 2009)

antaresia_boy said:


> cool, teach 'em to deal with conflict through hitting!


 
When they get old enough to go out to pubs & clubs, they will thank you. lol


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## Walker (Dec 10, 2009)

garycahill said:


> When they get old enough to go out to pubs & clubs, they will thank you. lol


 I think so!!!


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## Ramsayi (Dec 10, 2009)

I much prefer to sit a misbehaving child down and have a deep and meaningful conversation with them about why they should be good.Works everytime


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## IgotFrogs (Dec 10, 2009)

LegsDiamond said:


> Perhaps your the one that needs to re-read the post?


 

Nah i think you read my post wrong .... my point is very few people teach their children manners anymore .... 
kids are let behave in a manner i wouldnt accept from my dog let alone my children!....


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## Bec137 (Dec 10, 2009)

have a look on the child and youth website, search smacking and discipline. smaking doesnt work, im 100% against it, i have a almost 2 year old son and my partner and his parents and even a friend of mine smack him. i hate it, have mentioned it, but no one listens to me im just the stupid mother, go figure.

anyway, i think its 100% up to each parent, if the parents dont smack, no one else should smack the child, ever. if they choose to smack, they should be the only ones to do it, as its the parents/guardians job to enforce discipline. 

but yeah, i dont think it works and dont smack my child. it teaches them to fear their parents when they should love them. you praise the good behavior and give little to no attention to the bad behavior.

i think parents who smack their children simply do it because they are too lazy to put the time into the child to correct the behavior, and smacking is a temporary solution to a long term problem...

also it teaches them to smack when they are angry or frustrated, which isnt a good thing. you cant tell a child not to smack another child when its ok for their parent to smack them. it sends a mixed message and is confusing to the child.

my 2 cents.


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## jacorin (Dec 10, 2009)

hi guys n gals....phew been a few heated comments about this subject lol

ok,well i have smacked my kids....i used the count method 1...2...3.... still doin wrong after 3 they got a wallop on the butt...... we only did this because we tried all other ways 1st.....took us 4 yrs before laying on of the hand to behind..... kids are now 15,12 and 9.......i still count,tho now i only need to get to 2,and behaviour stops.
also taught them their manners,get complimented on them when they are out and about.
Now,we take things off them when they want to play up or backchat(15 yr old has lost his DS,MP3 and laptop) got the 1st 2 back,has said he dont care if he dont get his laptop back or not(has been 6 mths now) he's pretty indifferent to it actually.......think i'll give it to the 12yr old.
so yes,only smack as last resort if nothing else works.....those that don't....more power to you

now,
my stepson who is 15 as well..... living with his father and spouse in Qld last yr,did somthing wrong(riding his pushie with no hands) rode into a parked car,owned up to dad about doing it,got punished as deserved.....was grounded,and,kept to his room for 1 mth.......THAT 1 mth,turned into 6 mths.....he was only allowed out,to go to school,do his chores,and toilet and shower

to me,a smack on the tush or hand....much preferable than that sort of abuse

yes i was belted as a kid......hand,tree branch(thatr we had to cut ourselves),jug cord,feather duster.....by parents and grand parents

1 more thing before i go.... only parents/guardians should be able to punish is crap......i have always said to other parentswhen my kids go to their house.... if he/she plays up,they have my permission to discipline them if they play up(only 1 smack on hand or behind) if that dont work then ring me and i'll come back and deal with the problem......never had to go back....... the kids were sat down and spoken to and explained that while they were in someone elses home,they were under the rules that that home went by,they understood that,so all was good....often told, they could go back any time and play.

other parents knew that i expected the same to happen at my home,they agreed...... if they didnt like it,then those kids were never allowed to come over

ok that all i got.......... flame away


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## Brown_Hair (Dec 10, 2009)

To many pages to read but i will add my 2cents.

Firestly antaresia you must be from like the sticks in melb. If you were from melb city or suburbs you would not be saying that lol. So many people need a good clip behind the ear.
Anyone will tell you that, especially me with my line of work. Either that (no offence) or you a spoilet wesley college rich kid. 



antaresia_boy said:


> honestly, no offence to anyone who does, but I was never smacked, and I won't do it when I have kids.


 
The problem with so many youth is disipline. Be it smacking, education or respect. Every parent (and i beleive only parents can truely understand) has the right to smack their child or raise them how they see fit without other (non parent) do-gooders telling them how they best be doing this.

Like smokeing smacking is a personal choice and should be just that.


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## LegsDiamond (Dec 11, 2009)

People smack because it is easier than actually spending the time to treat your child like a human. Respect me or you will get a flogging
It's disgusting to see parent's out at shopping centers who smack their kids and then shove their fingers in their little faces and proceed to yell at them.

It's illegal for an adult to touch another adult but seems fine when it's an adult doing it to a child. No matter how hard or soft you do it, it's still assault!
Nothing like taking your own problems out an a defenseless child 

You would all be up in arms if a person was to smack a dog to teach it but have no qualms about doing it to your own children...pathetic


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## Brown_Hair (Dec 11, 2009)

Actually legs it isnt assault. It is under the crimes act however i forget what act (i do have my notes in my room somewhere) but to sum it up its a point in defencences to assault, which also covers the likes of concent (ie sports, not "go on hit me") and use of reasonable force in enforcing the law (police, security, transit sec). I beleive their is 5-10 defences, smacking your child been one.


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## stuartandconnie (Dec 11, 2009)

*yeah*

kid these day think thay can do any thing


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