# A few questions for all of the clever DIY-ers here.



## SarahScales (Jan 16, 2013)

So I am the least woodworky-painty-crafty person in the world. I have literally no idea what I am doing but that doesn't mean I do not want to start! After all, building and designing your own enclosures looks like so much fun. However, I have a few quick questions.

1) Melamine: I have found that bunnings cuts the moisture resistant melamine for all of us that do not have powertools on hand. That's great! However, how do I keep it together? As it is not traditional wood, would screws or nails splinter the finish? So I suspect you would use a high-grade adhesive, which one? 

2) Doors: So sliding doors is obviously the easiest method with the tracks. Is there a way to get plastic or glass cut to size? As I am looking to make quite long enclosures, I'm going to need big doors. Is there a more efficient way of doing it?

3) Light fittings: How do you cut the holes to put your premade, prewired lamps through? Is there a specific way to drill circular holes?

Last question! I swear!

4) I have a prepurchased tank that is spectacular, I love it! Only thing is, I hate the background. It's very shiny and has a very polished finish. Is there any paint that has a matte finish that is safe to use in enclosures? As it is a large enclosure, I would be looking at things like spray-paint, acrylic water based? Something I can buy in large quantities.

Thank you in advance! I am looking forward to get started, with 5 days off a week I should be kept quite busy!


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 16, 2013)

I think, given the basic nature of your questions, that DIY enclosure building from scratch is not for you. I would see if there's someone nearby who can show you the basics before you try anything yourself and waste your money and materials. Bunnings do cut sheeting, but not with anything like the accuracy you will need to build a squared enclosure. Of course you need to screw them together, melamine is designed to shed anything that might stick to it, so glues of any sort are unsatisfactory.

Your basic knowledge is a lot less than what's needed to build a secure environment for any reptile.

Jamie


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## buffcoat (Jan 16, 2013)

1) pre drill holes in the melamine where you want it joined. If using 3/4" thick I'd use 2" drywall screws. 

2) Most places like your Bunnings will cut plexi to the length and width you want. If you are going with sliding doors, make sure you get two pieces cut.

3) Edited answer as I was told its against forum rules. My deepest apologies.

4) Any low VOC paint should work. I use external semi gloss paint for my non melamine vivs. Just let it air out a few days/weeks before putting yer kids in.

Hope that helps a bit.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## SarahScales (Jan 16, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I think, given the basic nature of your questions, that DIY enclosure building from scratch is not for you. I would see if there's someone nearby who can show you the basics before you try anything yourself and waste your money and materials. Bunnings do cut sheeting, but not with anything like the accuracy you will need to build a squared enclosure. Of course you need to screw them together, melamine is designed to shed anything that might stick to it, so glues of any sort are unsatisfactory.
> 
> Your basic knowledge is a lot less than what's needed to build a secure environment for any reptile.
> 
> Jamie



Thanks Jamie! 

But with anything, I have to start somewhere! I'm aware that my first few attempts will probably result in failure and I am prepared for that. I'm not going to place my animals into a cage that I believe insecure or dangerous. The only way to get experience is actually starting to try, so that's what I am going to do. If I waste some timber and a bit of cash, big deal, at least I am trying and will be moving forward. Good idea on the advice from locals though, I will have a look around and see if I can find someone who will be able to help me.

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buffcoat said:


> 1) pre drill holes in the melamine where you want it joined. If using 3/4" thick I'd use 2" drywall screws.
> 
> 2) Most places like your Bunnings will cut plexi to the length and width you want. If you are going with sliding doors, make sure you get two pieces cut.
> 
> ...



That helps allot! Thank you so much, that makes it allot easier to get a start on things. 

But I badly worded question 3, I meant installing prewired, premade lamps from petshops. (You may want to remove the electrical advice as it is against forum policy, sorry!).


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 16, 2013)

Just be aware that you can't do it without a basic understanding of the materials you are using and the appropriate tools

Jamie


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## Procreate (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm assuming that the pre-made light fixture just has a point to plug into a power point? If so u can buy drill bits that drill holes more then big enough to fit a power plug through.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 16, 2013)

Procreate said:


> I'm assuming that the pre-made light fixture just has a point to plug into a power point? If so u can buy drill bits that drill holes more then big enough to fit a power plug through.



It's called a hole saw...

Jamie


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## sd1981 (Jan 16, 2013)

Plenty of good info on this thread, above all else, measure 10 times cut once, have fun, don't expect it to be perfect first time around, lots of these guys have been making heaps of these enclosures for years so they know what they're talking about , yours may not turn out 100% square (my first few didn't) but you can tidy it up to make a nice safe secure enclosure, and pics once its done.... Good luck...


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## SarahScales (Jan 16, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Just be aware that you can't do it without a basic understanding of the materials you are using and the appropriate tools
> 
> Jamie



Thank you for your input. I do have most of the tools required, having inherited my dads old tools when he upgraded. And you're right, I don't have a basic understanding of the materials I am using. That it why I am asking ^.^

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sd1981 said:


> Plenty of good info on this thread, above all else, measure 10 times cut once, have fun, don't expect it to be perfect first time around, lots of these guys have been making heaps of these enclosures for years so they know what they're talking about , yours may not turn out 100% square (my first few didn't) but you can tidy it up to make a nice safe secure enclosure, and pics once its done.... Good luck...



Hahaha I am very pedantic as a person, I'll probably wind up measuring 60 times before even thinking about cutting! Especially considering my lack of experience. I'm fairly certain my first few are going to be garbage, literally  . Ahh well! I've got to start somewhere. Thanks for the luck! I'll need it. Bunnings are going to looooove me.


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## lizardjasper (Jan 16, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I think, given the basic nature of your questions, that DIY enclosure building from scratch is not for you. I would see if there's someone nearby who can show you the basics before you try anything yourself and waste your money and materials. Bunnings do cut sheeting, but not with anything like the accuracy you will need to build a squared enclosure. Of course you need to screw them together, melamine is designed to shed anything that might stick to it, so glues of any sort are unsatisfactory.
> 
> Your basic knowledge is a lot less than what's needed to build a secure environment for any reptile.
> 
> Jamie



Don't be mean. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Answer 1: You'll need to use screws. That's the easiest way.
Answer 2: Sliding door are the best. Perspex is a good alternative to glass, but if you want glass then google glaziers in your area. Make sure you have the length and height you want, and ask for a quote on that with sliding glass doors with plastic tracks. Shop around to find the best price.
Answer 3: Most drills you can buy circular cutters for, and you attach the size you want and cut.
Answer 4: Any paint is ok as long as it won't peel and is non-toxic.

Of course, I'm no expert either. I only started building mine last year.


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## slide (Jan 16, 2013)

This is another way you can get wires in without leaving a hole big enough to get the plug through when you only need to get the wire through. Put your backing on first then mark from the inside of the enclosure where the walls are at the point you want the wires to pass through then work out how much you need to cut in from the line for a snug fit of your wires. Same can be done with a router, handsaw or jigsaw for the wires coming in next to the vents but put vents in first then mark the outside edge of the vent and work in from there. Just make sure your vent is far enough from the inside of the enclosure to allow for the wire






also predrill screw holes to the width of the solid width of the screw so that the thread part of the screw is the only part biting in to the wood, practice on some offcuts before committing to the finished product make sure you screw in pretty square to the wood or a screw might pop out the side ruining your piece of wood. It also might pay to design your enclosure about 100mm larger at first in all directions if you can spare the melamine, that way if you stuff it up you can cut it back a bit.


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## TrevorJ (Jan 16, 2013)

Keep an eye out for some of the Bunnings workshops that are usually held on a Saturday morning, there may be one that can help you get started. When you order your glass, make sure you ask them to polish all edges otherwise they won't slide too well. You can get a glass rasp and some coarse wet and dry emery papers and do it yourself if they are wanting to charge too much extra.


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## TheJoyces (Jan 16, 2013)

Like I said in the PM to you there are a lot of ways you can do it, and I put my cables through conduit into my tanks, that way I have no wires dangling any where, and no little gaps any where it's a snug fit, cables are protected and so are my reps. Hopefully the links I sent you were helpful enough to get you started.


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## bk201 (Jan 16, 2013)

I use mainly flatpacked melamine enclosures because i am lazy and they are cheap now
These have lids with half the roof hinged this way you can drill a U shaped hole in the back and place you cord through there without leaving massive unsightly holes in your enclosures


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## MyMitchie (Jan 16, 2013)

Chin up loverly! I don't own any tools nor did I know how to build an enclosure and mine turned out wonderful! Don't let people who want to tell you that you can't stop you from learning how you can. Measure lots and lots, stock up at Bunnings and use glass, it will save you in the long run. The holes on the side of the vents are a fantastic idea.

Blaze


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## J-A-X (Jan 16, 2013)

Don't be put off by some of the answers you've received Sarah, if your keen to give it your best shot then I say go for it. You say you've inherited some tools from your dad, so that one less expense. 
My first question would be is have you actually used any of them yet ! If not, call dad, and tell him you want to get a feel for what these tools do and can he give you any scrap pieces to play with. If he hasn't go to bunnings and get some elcheapo wide timber and have a play around. 
Go to bunnings and find the oldest guy in the timber department and be straight with him. Tell him exactly what you told us in the first post. Chances are he will bend over backwards to help you achieve your end result. Don't think you have to buy everything at once to finish your enclosure, but everytime your thinking of getting something to use (screws, glue, etc) then seek out the same guy and start by saying 'you probably don't remember me but…… ' work at building that relationship with them - the older guys LOVE imparting knowledge and helping the younger ones - male and female! 
My two local hardware stores both know me - bunnings know me as the 'snake tank lady' and my mitre 10 knows me by name. 
Take photos on your phone and show the the progress pics they love that they've helped to create something useful. 
Let them know what tools you've got and if they will suit what your doing. Most are fine with the entry level tools for beginners and will give advice on how to get the best out of them. My mitre 10 falls all over himself to show me the last tools on the market and they're rarely the trade quality stuff. 
I'm waffling so push your sleeves up Sarah, go introduce yourself to the hardware shop and have some fun! It's certainly the best thing I ever did


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## justin91 (Jan 16, 2013)

Like everybody said, you have to start somewhere. I'm not the best diy, I actually suck really bad at building but I'm giving it a go. You learn from your mistakes. And trust me, you'll make a few. But afterwards you'll be like oooohhh. I get it now.. I always seem to kick myself in the butt all the time when building my enclosure. 

As jax said, make friends with your local bunnings and they'll help you to the end of the earth and back.


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## imported_Varanus (Jan 16, 2013)

Personally, I'd go marine ply (an outdoor grade) over melamine. It's a bit more exy, but I've used it outside in all waethers for backing board for some latex backgrounds and it works a treat-so much longer life span, especially if the corners are "sikaflex" sealed. Only problem is in comes in black or black... great for pythons, not so much monitors. Don't have to paint it either. Also, Bunnings has a 4mm blade, whereas if you use a cabinet maker they often have a 1mm blade so less waste and more accurate cuts/ end product size. If you take them a plan of what you want cut (a "cutting list") most good cabinet makers will do it for less than $50 and you wont be complaining later about your panels being out of whack.

Hope this helps. Good luck!


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## oOLaurenOo (Jan 16, 2013)

+ 1 for the advise about going and finding the old guy in the timber section. Although I have found most of the staff at bunnings very helpful. The trick is not to go in there and say I want these sheets of melamine cut this big. Tell them about your project, ask for there advise. Often you will walk out with a better plan then when you walked in! My advise is to spend a lot of time thinking about how all the bits are going to go together before you start the measuring and the cutting. I was fantastic at forgetting to factor in the width of the sheets so when I had my back board cut out it was just a couple of centre metres short! Lesson well learned.... eventually. But don't let anyone put you off! DIY is great fun, and although it can be frustrating at times its well worth it in the end!


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## bigjoediver (Jan 16, 2013)

Tip 1. Don't go to Bunnings for your melamine unless you only want white. Find a local small kitchen manufacturer and give them a sketch and get them to cut the board for you, not only is the material better quality you have more choice of color and the saw machines they use are very accurate. If you ask nicely they will probably give you screws for next to nothing as they buy them by the thousands. 

Tip 2. The shiny backgrounds you see are usually from the pondtite sealer used rather than the paint as it's quite glossy. Two ways around this, one is to dull it up after by lightly buffing with steel wool after a couple of days or by using a matt finish sealer, only thing is the matt pondtite isn't water based and takes a whole to stop smelling. 

Tip 3. Glass is better for large sliding doors than Perspex as it won't flex. Shop around your local glaziers as glass prices vary a lot. The smaller guys may have off cuts in the size you need where as the bigger mobs just wont store it. They can also help with tracks. 

Tip 4. Just give it a shot and enjoy the build, tradies and suppliers are always willing to give advice if you are honest about your abilities etc.


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## J-A-X (Jan 16, 2013)

the only reason I suggested the oldest guy is they are often full of 'life experience' have lots of tips and tricks they happily share and know how important an accurate cut is. 'My bunnings guy' actually puts it up on the panel saw. Puts the 'fence' on, measures and marks both edges, then ***** it over to make sure it's still lined up with the saw just to check its been cut square at the timber yard. ! How good is that ! He's even rejected a couple of pieces and then set off with his giant set square to find a squarer piece ! 
Every piece I've bought from there has been spot on, I don't even double check it from him anymore. 
I have a table saw but maneuvering full sheets on its small table is not a pleasant experience! If I win lotto a big block of land with an industrial size shed and a panel saw will be first on the list !


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## BIGBANG (Jan 16, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Your basic knowledge is a lot less than what's needed to build a secure environment for any reptile.
> 
> Jamie


it appears your basic knowledge is a lot less than whats needed mate.......there is a glue that is designed for malimine it sticks far stronger than PVA does to timber


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## buffcoat (Jan 17, 2013)

Or, see if anyone is near you that has built them before. Ask if they might be willing to help. You can slap one together in a few hours. Buy pizza and and maybe a few adult beverages (or soda if that's their/your thing )

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## SarahScales (Jan 17, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your help! It's very much appreciated. I'm currently in the midst of moving, after which I will have 5 days off a week :lol: Plenty of time to practice! 

I have the basics like the jigsaw saw, a power drill, clamps, angle, level... Are there any stand out tools that would make my life much easier?


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## slide (Jan 17, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> there is a glue that is designed for malimine it sticks far stronger than PVA does to timber







Sticks like excrement to a blanket when clamped whilst drying. Available from cabinetmakers. I get mine from the company that cuts to order for me (when I can afford to get stuff cut on their cnc machine) I get them to tongue and groove the panels so they slot into each other perfectly then glue and clamp together (they cut to 0.1mm and its computer and machine cut. Superior finish with no screws at all but cost extra bucks for tongue and groove, or i can get it cut so i screw it together)


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## Tinky (Jan 17, 2013)

You are getting great advise.

One thing you might consider is using something like google sketch to design your enclosure. This will help with getting all your measurements right.

Then there are the little things like raising the tracks so they dont fill up with substrate.

I had a ball doing my two bay display enclosure. It ended up costing far to much but I love the result.


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## slide (Jan 17, 2013)

Also if cutting with a circular saw its best to find out the off-set of the saw blade to the edge of the baseplate and clamp a straight edge (rigid piece of metal or a long enough level) and use this to keep the cut straight its a million times better than following a drawn line. Clamp on a test piece of wood then cut a sliver off it then measure from the straightedge to the cut. You will have to add or subtract that measurement from your final cut if you get what i mean. Remember it will be different when cutting on the other side of the blade.




Also, cut depth. First unplug the saw so you dont accidentally turn it on and end up with no digits. 
Set the depth of the blade so it only pokes out a few mm past the timber. There are two good reasons for this, firstly safety, it reduces the chance of "kick-back" which is where the saw bites into the wood instead of cutting it and the saw is kicked back and up. It can end really badly so beware. And dont push the saw forward too hard, the rotation of the blade will do the cutting not extra pressure on it, a slow cut also has less chipping.



Secondly it gives a much better cut by reducing the amount of chipping to the cut edge.



Im pointing to where you set the cut depth by adjusting the baseplate up or down

Oh and if you want cheap sheets to practice your cutting on ask if they have "cover sheets" of mdf or something else they are sometimes free or cheap as (if available)

Get a dust mask too. Some of the chemicals used to make these products arent good for you


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## BIGBANG (Jan 17, 2013)

slide said:


> Sticks like excrement to a blanket when clamped whilst drying. Available from cabinetmakers. I get mine from the company that cuts to order for me (when I can afford to get stuff cut on their cnc machine) I get them to tongue and groove the panels so they slot into each other perfectly then glue and clamp together (they cut to 0.1mm and its computer and machine cut. Superior finish with no screws at all but cost extra bucks for tongue and groove, or i can get it cut so i screw it together)


 I was a cabinet maker for 10 years, that stuff is good, we also used a glue called AV56 I think it was that good stuff to, just looks like pva but designed for malimine.


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## slide (Jan 17, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> I was a cabinet maker for 10 years, that stuff is good, we also used a glue called AV56 I think it was that good stuff to, just looks like pva but designed for malimine.



Important thing with using this is rubber gloves and also was told best way to clean up excess is to use a bog knife and slice it off once it has started to set but before it fully sets!


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## Vixen (Jan 17, 2013)

Just a note, perspex does 'cloud' and start looking a bit ratty after a while. ( used it for some of my enclosures about 3 years ago - I still have them, they're not so bad you can't see through but I will be sticking with glass from now on )


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## Jackrabbit (Jan 17, 2013)

My advice is to see if there is a 'Men's Shed' close by where some of the guys might be willing to give you some advice/help with the project.

good luck, you are right there is nothing like the satisfaction of seeing your own design come to life at your own hands. I finished my first attempt a year ago and whilst it isn't perfect, the animals are happy.


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## TrevorJ (Jan 17, 2013)

SarahScales said:


> I have the basics like the jigsaw saw, a power drill, clamps, angle, level... Are there any stand out tools that would make my life much easier?



A good plunge router will let you make all types of slots and recesses with just a little practice.


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## BIGBANG (Jan 17, 2013)

Are you going heat cord or lights?


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## SarahScales (Jan 17, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> Are you going heat cord or lights?



The first few enclosures will be cord or panels. Another will be a light.


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## Wing_Nut (Jan 17, 2013)

I have found complete DIY is really not the way to go. Enlisting the help of professionals to assist with design, cut, edging all of the timber required is cost effective (especially if you shop around, there are lots of small business' that will be happy to do small fill in jobs to keep there apprentice busy). Cabinet makers buy there products in larger quantities and also get larger trade discounts. 

While I have the tools, the training and the skills to do all of this myself, its time consuming and difficult to get the finish you get with computer controlled machines worth thousands of dollars. 

The tools required from that point onwards are then quite strait forward, taking your time to mark out and pre-drill screw holes, sealing exposed edges of sheeting before assembly, carefully marking out and installing vents and carefully planning the placement of the electrical components, will result in professional looking enclosures. 

As and example of the above, I am currently building a three bay enclosure and to have all the material cut and edged, worked out a cheaper to have it all professionally done than to buy the basic material and do it myself, and obviously, a lot less time consuming. (Bunnings compared to cabinet maker).

I certainly encourage you to increase your knowledge and skill base and I like the good old Australian give it a go attitude, I do however wonder why we so often try to re-invent the wheel. There is a lot to be said for personal ambition and the feeling of accomplishment when you succeed in achieving what you set out to do, and if learning the skills to complete the task you have set yourself is important to you, then I would suggest learning the necessary skills from others who are suitably qualified. 

A lot of power tools are potentially dangerous, and a lot of DIY enthusiasts are unaware of the risks. There are a lot of nasty chemicals in most manufactured timber products also and you need to make yourself aware of this and what steps you need to take to protect yourself.

The skills you gain from DIY projects often transfer directly to other things in your life, and from that point of view alone, I think its a worthy pursuit. I wish you well and every success in your projects.

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## J-A-X (Jan 17, 2013)

TrevorJ said:


> A good plunge router will let you make all types of slots and recesses with just a little practice.



I actually prefer my trimmer router ( sometimes called a laminate trimmer) I can easily hold it in one hand. My plunge router has been nominated to be turned upside down and used on my not yet built router table  
A good basic starting point for power tools
- a power drill or a cordless with 2 quick charge batteries
- a circular saw with fine tooth blade, higher the number the finer the cut. (Think steak knife vs bread knife- you would use a bread knife to cut steak! )
- a router 

I have a full range, but I have a love hate relationship with my jigsaw. 
If you do decide to use screws always pre drill your holes (go one size thinner than your screws) you won't split the wood. 
ALWAYS mask up ALWAYS !!!
Tie back your hair and keep it out of your face! Otherwise it will fall right in front of your eyes at the worst possible time. 
Always wear closed in shoes (doesn't have to be 'safety boots' but if you drop something, even a screw driver it hurts like you wouldn't believe when it spears into the top of your foot. It will also protect you if you stand on that dropped screw you forgot to pick up 
Don't be scared of your tools but have respect for the damage they can cause to soft flesh if something goes wrong. 
Above all enjoy the learning experience. You'll make mistakes at first, but I can guarantee you won't do it a second time- you'll make different mistakes and learn from them too.


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## Skippii (Jan 25, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Just be aware that you can't do it without a basic understanding of the materials you are using and the appropriate tools
> 
> Jamie



Which is exactly why Sarah's here asking questions; to gain the basic understanding necessary to take on the task.


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## Yogi (Jan 25, 2013)

Hello all,

The whole router thing makita make a new thing called a romer router i think its a laminated trimmer with vary speed way more grunt and can take bigger bits with an array of attachments and best of all its cheap. I think i paid $169.
I terms of tool quality truely means safety i have used countless cheap brand tools and have felt uneasy with the proformance and build quality. (also the overall outcome is way better). For connecting and sheet materials you cant go past a small guage nail gun eg 18ga or 16ga in straight brads. 

For glue ya cant go past ultra set which is a flooring glue is glues everthing whilst remaining slightly flexable.

The Biggest thing i have learnt from all my carpentry and DIY days are i aint a mistake if no one notices and it still looks good. Plans can change as you build due to mistakes. 

Ill post a diary of my new 100% custom made from scratch three high encolsure very soon. As its first inhabitances move in this long weekend.

Cheers Jacob


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## J-A-X (Jan 25, 2013)

The makita Roumer router takes the 6.35mm bit, the same as my ryobi trimmer, The only difference is the bigger motor and variable speed - probably handy if you want to work with hardwoods but for pine/MDF mine does just fine and was half the price and BOY am I glad I bought it before they started producing the awful flouro green ones ..... Yuk! 

Oh come on..... You all knew I had to check it out !!!!


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