# Rough scaled pythons advanced?



## Iguana (Jun 8, 2016)

I don't know about the other states, but here in Victoria you need an advanced license to own one, which I find strange considering they don't appear to be rare or difficult snakes, and with some of the other larger more dangerous reptiles you can own on a basic license it's very unusual to me. 
So just wondering if anyone knows why you need an advanced license? 
thanks,


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## Stompsy (Jun 8, 2016)

I have no idea but I found it strange as well. I had one in qld on a basic license but here I've had to get an advanced to once again own one. My only reasoning would be temperature difference from their natural environment in comparison to the temps in Victoria. But I guess that's true of most pythons. So really, it's probably revenue raising. 


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## Herpo (Jun 8, 2016)

In NSW they're a Class 2 animal, on par with Green Trees.


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## Iguana (Jun 8, 2016)

[MENTION=41642]Herpo[/MENTION] same here, but I can at least see why GTP's need to be on a higher license [MENTION=17341]Stompsy[/MENTION] Hmm maybe it's just the southern regions then. Really a shame the advanced license cost so much.


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## Stompsy (Jun 8, 2016)

I get mine on concession so it's not too bad. 


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## Sam123 (Jun 8, 2016)

Iguana said:


> @Herpo same here, but I can at least see why GTP's need to be on a higher license @Stompsy Hmm maybe it's just the southern regions then. Really a shame the advanced license cost so much.


I would be interested to see what the authorities say to why we cant have roughies on a basic liscence in nsw...


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## saikrett (Jun 8, 2016)

I think it would be cause they were very rare originally, I think it was 1999-2000 when the first brought into captivity, then a few years till they were available to the public.

NPWS are probably behind on updating the classifications,


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## Iguana (Jun 8, 2016)

[MENTION=42083]Sam123[/MENTION] It's worth the ask, although I doubt they would reply, I hardly ever get one back unless I call. [MENTION=88]saikrett[/MENTION] that would make sense, I've seen them becoming more and more common in the last 5 years. [MENTION=17341]Stompsy[/MENTION] yeah it is much more cheaper, although the concession advanced is around the same as the basic without
Hopefully both NSW and Victoria update the list


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 9, 2016)

Saikrett has the answer. Roughies were only discovered in the wild and scientifically described in 1980 or thereabouts. John Weigel of the ARP worked on (then) CALM in WA for years to get permission to collect a breeding group of this species. He eventually succeeded and ended up with five wild-caught animals, and I believe he bred them in all combinations, with each of the five participating productively in the program. Eventually, once John had met his obligations to provide animals to various other organisations and institutions, a few went onto the open market, with a price of around $25,000 a pair if I recall. 

Way back in the day (2004) I obtained the entire CALM file on RSPs via an FOI application. CALM was actually very cooperative, and the only info that was redacted was the GPS coordinates of John's collection sites, which I think was reasonable at the time, and I had an interest only in the political machinations and bureaucratic processes involved. In his submissions, JW predicted that RSPs would be a $200 snake within 10 years. It took a little bit longer than that, but he was basically correct.

So that's a long-winded way of explaining why they are on the cat 2 list to this day. Wildlife bodies are notoriously slow to recategorise animals, it's usually a matter of years before action is taken to make these changes - the Woma in NSW was a similar story a few years ago.

The history of the RSP, from initial collection of one animal in the 1970s, to John's captive breeding successes, and the change in status from rare and exclusive in captivity to a $200 snake in 2016, is unique in this country, and probably the world. This is a snake with a very limited distribution in specialised habitat in the Kimberley region of WA, and it's desperately sad that it will probably be wiped out in the wild in the next few years by the advance of the Cane Toad across the Kimberley.

Jamie


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## GBWhite (Jun 9, 2016)

Jamie,

Have you heard the story about JW and Trent Russell collecting the first one? It is quite a tale. 

When I was president of the AHS I was also doing some work for JW. The AHS was in dire straights financially when I became president and almost in the stage of being wound up. So I spoke with the committee and we got John and Trent to come in to a meeting and give us a run down of the adventure and they actually packed out the auditorium of the Australian Museum. 

In brief they were dropped in to a remote area of the Kimberley region by chopper with enough provisions for a couple of weeks. They almost got lost, Trent almost got taken by a big croc and nearly didn't make the rendezvous with the chopper to get out. On top of that, when Trent found the first roughy he actually thought he'd found a Stimpsons.

George.


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks George, I know that Ron Johnstone (WA Museum) collected the type specimen, which he found in a cave and shot with a .410. He just thought it was a Children's Python and shoved it into a formalin drum, where it remained for quite some months until one of the Museum vollies was sorting them in Perth and alerted the Reptile Dept to it. This all happened 10m from my Preparators workshop, so I had an almost armchair view of the unfolding drama!

I believe that on the last day of the last trip, they found and rescued the fifth animal from the coils of an Olive Python, almost as the chopper was landing!

Another bit of info was passed on to me last night - JW apparently exchanged the first pair of Roughie hatchlings for 4 GTP hatchlings, which at the time had a value of around $8.5K each, so the value of these critters could be put at around $34K! John very generously gave me a pair about 5 years ago, and I treasure them because of the history of the species, and that they came directly from the man who had the determination, persistence and grit to take on the toughest bureaucracy in the country to achieve a goal that had no guarantee of either finding the animals in the first place, or of being able to breed them in the long term. It's been a remarkable achievement.

Jamie


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