# Staffy kills tiger snake in Bannockburn as kids squeal with fear



## ShnakeyGirl (Jan 28, 2010)

*Published On:* 1-28-2010
*Source:* Geelong Advertiser

ZENA the staffordshire terrier is being hailed a hero after saving her three young owners from a menacing tiger snake.

*Go to Original Article*


----------



## Gecko75 (Jan 28, 2010)

the dog deserves to be put down, if a dog attacks a person or kills someone elses dog cat it gets put down, should be the same for this. real shame, bunch of tards thinking the dog did a good deed, snake wasnt doing anything, sick of hearing stuff like this happening!


----------



## Kitah (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't think the dog should be euthanised... the dog WAS protecting its family, its different to when a dog may just go and kill a cat or attack a human or another dog when unprovoked. To me, an animal shouldn't be punished for its instincts and what comes naturally to it, when protecting its family/ 'pack members'. Behaviour modification is the way to go, and try to train the animals- but instincts in situations like this will always prevail.

having said that though, if I were in that situation I would most certainly have called the dog off immediately and contacted a snake handler to relocate the snake a bit further away from the house. It would be nice if, for once, people would be more concerned for the welfare and lives of our natives, instead of thinking its a good thing that yet another 'menacing' snake is dead. 

This is also evidence that dogs can and do kill wildlife (not just cats)


----------



## dtulip10 (Jan 28, 2010)

i have submitted a very firm stance on how i feel about this under the comments.
in short this dog should be put down for killing native wild life.

cheers Dayle


----------



## JoceyFisch (Jan 28, 2010)

xshadowx said:


> I don't think the dog should be euthanised... the dog WAS protecting its family, its different to when a dog may just go and kill a cat or attack a human or another dog when unprovoked. To me, an animal shouldn't be punished for its instincts and what comes naturally to it, when protecting its family/ 'pack members'. Behaviour modification is the way to go, and try to train the animals- but instincts in situations like this will always prevail.
> 
> This is also evidence that dogs can and do kill wildlife (not just cats)
> 
> I hate the media though- 'menacing' tiger snake? get real...


 
Couldn't agree with you more!


----------



## cris (Jan 28, 2010)

The Tiger Snake has every right to live in their house, these snakes are always placid and harmless, perfectly safe to have freeranging in your house and it was here first, kill that horrible dangerous dog that protected its family. Ranting like a deluded idiot is good fun and gives reptile keepers a good image.


----------



## deebo (Jan 28, 2010)

........


----------



## itbites (Jan 28, 2010)

It's sad that the snake was killed however, I agree 100% with xshadowx & cris..

Where children are concerned vens should be removed & in a situation such as this,

I believe the dog was only trying to protect her family.


----------



## robertirwin2008 (Jan 28, 2010)

didn't sound like they where in any immediate danger the snake was still out side. but its a natural reaction for a dog to protect its family and that is how they see there owners(as family). its sad that it was killed, a snake removalist could have easily removed it from the property. i do HATE how the media portray any predator, the snake was not there to menaces them ''menacing tiger snake'' but most likely just looking for rodents that often live around any property.


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 28, 2010)

I hope they fine the dog for killing native wildlife :lol:


----------



## Gecko75 (Jan 28, 2010)

I bet if it was a blue tongue, the dog would have protected its family again, and killed it, how does the dog know whats dangerous and what isnt? 

:lol: cris and moosenoose


----------



## matt86 (Jan 28, 2010)

Gecko75 said:


> the dog deserves to be put down, if a dog attacks a person or kills someone elses dog cat it gets put down, should be the same for this. real shame, bunch of tards thinking the dog did a good deed, snake wasnt doing anything, sick of hearing stuff like this happening!


 
Well that's just a stupid statement isn't it?
Dogs protect their owners from what they perceive as danger... they do it out of love and instinct.
Reptiles are my biggest passion in life, but I don't agree that other animals should be put down for killing them... certainly not in a situation like this.

At least a dog, for the most part, is confined to its own yard. What about all the irresponsible cat owners out there who let their pets roam around all day/night killing native wildlife - birds, reptiles, small mammals etc???

It is never the animal's fault, as they are not capable of examining a situation on the same psychological level as humans. It is usually the owners fault. In this specific example, it was nobody's fault... just an accident. 

At least us reptile enthusiasts didn't get even more bad press... If the dog hadn't been around, it might have been a headline like 'Evil, satanic Tiger snake stalks small child, waits for opportune moment, then bites.'


----------



## Mighty_Moose (Jan 28, 2010)

What i'm finding hard to piece together is they say that it was coiled up in a corner AND they hav'nt seen a snake in 10 years i don't know how a staffy's defenssive instincts point towards a snake ? I don't understand how the natural instinct is not investigate first. Where the staffy comes from i don't think there would be any snakes .. These are just questions, Also a snake couldnt hear them scream so I wouldn't know what made the dog 'instajib' the snake They would of had to cause i big load of commotion .. Anyway I don't see why the dog should be put down if people that kill as 'defence' don't get in much trouble if any.


----------



## jack (Jan 28, 2010)

a simple analysis of hospital admission records would undoubtedly demonstrate that dangerous dogs do more damage to children than timid tigers...


----------



## matt86 (Jan 28, 2010)

Agreed Jack...
I don't think anyone on here would argue that point


----------



## jinin (Jan 28, 2010)

These stories are really getting on my nerves!
The dog would have killed it anyway.... if it happened to be a Python it would have killed it, if it happened to be a Lizard it would have killed it! Just so happens it was a tiger snake therefore the dogs a hero! Thanks god the dog got the snake before it wiped out the neighbor hood!


----------



## MarcAtterton (Jan 28, 2010)

the family left the door open,, what do they expect, the snake to knock and wipe its tail before entering,.


----------



## cement (Jan 28, 2010)

Yep a sad situation, that one the dog wasn't protecting anyone, dogs just kill small animals for fun and territory. and two the parents have now well and truly imprinted fear of snakes onto the kids.

This is exactly the type of reaction to snakes that is based on complete fear, and the snake ends up dead.

These people need education, the right thing to have done is keep everyone away including the dog, keep an eye on it and call a catcher.

The dog was very lucky, and in this case if the snake had tagged the dog and either killed it or made it crook it would have only given these people more fuel to keep the snake fear fire alive. 

I feel sorry for the kids, the truth and reality about snakes is now almost unobtainable.


----------



## kkjkdt1 (Jan 28, 2010)

i get alot of tiger snakes in my back yard and my dog always bails them up( and yes she is a staffy as well) she never kills/hurts them but goes off until i come out to see whats going on - she has a totally different bark when it comes to snakes.
so while she is keeping an eye on the snake i get my trusy 12g(JOKE), I GET A MATE TO COME AROUND AND REMOVE IT.
just my little ramble


----------



## craig.a.c (Jan 28, 2010)

cris said:


> The Tiger Snake has every right to live in their house, these snakes are always placid and harmless, perfectly safe to have freeranging in your house.



Do you have young children? I don't think you would be singing the same song about tigers being "harmless" if your kids or yourself got bitten by one (and not getting medical help, yeah, real harmless). Get off your high horse. As it was said earlier, the dog WAS protecting its "family".


----------



## Mighty_Moose (Jan 28, 2010)

I just don't understand why the dog would go for a motionless snake curled up in a corner when the mum and children are screaming? My dog goes straight to the person screaming


----------



## kkjkdt1 (Jan 28, 2010)

im with craig,
id rather leave snakes alone but when it comes to my kids it aint worth the risk.
im trying to teach my kids(age 2 to 9) the difference between our pythons that they hold all the time and the *deadly* ones


----------



## cement (Jan 28, 2010)

" the dog WAS protecting its "family".[/QUOTE]

I don't beleive this statement, dogs have the capacity to be jealous and they are territorial. The dog doesn't know wether its a venomous snake or not.

But after been given chocolate cake and having a big fuss made over it, it will now no doubt kill anything that accidently stumbles into the yard, and possibly anything the dog comes across while out on the street.

It was the wrong way to handle the situation, before, during and after.


----------



## SLACkra (Jan 28, 2010)

I have to admit I was very disappointed as to how Channel 9's 6pm news depicted the situation. They also refered to the tiger snake as now being another one of the dog's toys and showed the dog playing with the now dead snake. If anything this has just promoted the idea that the only good snake is a dead snake. The proper thing to do would have been to remove the children and dog from the room and call a snake catcher.

I also agree dogs are a far greater threat to children than snakes. Where dogs will often attack other animals and people snakes only do so in order to defend themselves. I however have to disagree about the thought of putting down the dog. In my opinion the family should be educated about venomous snakes and the tiger snake's body taken away from them.

Andrew


----------



## crotalus1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Channel seven's coverage was good and they told people to leave snakes alone.


----------



## Nodrog (Jan 28, 2010)

It is ssad that the snake dies but if i had to choose between my son getting bitten and killing 1 of my adders as much as i love them my son would win.. Weather the dog knows the snake is dangerous or not the fact that his owner screamed was enough to send him into action..


----------



## baxtor (Jan 28, 2010)

craig.a.c said:


> Do you have young children? I don't think you would be singing the same song about tigers being "harmless" if your kids or yourself got bitten by one (and not getting medical help, yeah, real harmless). Get off your high horse. As it was said earlier, the dog WAS protecting its "family".



I think you missed chris's tongue planted firmly in his cheek


----------



## gecko-mad (Jan 28, 2010)

The thing i don't get is why is it always get rid of the snake? Why don't you just stay away from it or make the area less snake friendly? It's always KILL KILL KILL with people these days!


----------



## ShnakeyGirl (Jan 28, 2010)

Nodrog said:


> It is ssad that the snake dies but if i had to choose between my son getting bitten and killing 1 of my adders as much as i love them my son would win.. Weather the dog knows the snake is dangerous or not the fact that his owner screamed was enough to send him into action..


 
i wouldn't kill any of my snakes if my children were bit cos they would never be placed in a position were they could be bit within our house, accidental bite in the yard or bush would still see the snake moved away to clear the danger of it biting anyone else, and performing first aid to the site. the only time i would consider allowing my children to handle a venomous snake would be at an age where they have the best possible chance of survival if there were complications, and they had enough wits to read the animals body language. also i had a jack russel (known for being a NATURAL snake killer like many of the terriers) and a russel X red cattle and i had them with me on most of my herp trips and it involved no incedent whatso ever, even when i encountered a taipan and brown they kept back without me having to worry about them. they would wait for me to finish photo's if i found it first and moved away if they located and barked at it if i didn't find it first and would let me take photo's without a hassle. However my parents kill snakes and had a foxy that would kill after seeing many killed by my father, yes my family know how strongly i feel about that even though i tell them it will go if they leave it alone... slowly they are coming around and it's only cos of persistance and the fact i've had elapids for some time now is making them realise they don't bite cos they see us...

one comment i really thought was idiotic was some guy said that snakes don't give us a second chance when in all honesty, they give plenty of chances, many even include bluff strikes if provoction still occurs until it is under a real threat on its life such as being crushed by a foot. 

also the advancments in medicine and treatment for snake bites has been so extensive over the past 30 or more years that the rate of survival has improved so much that in the 20 years between 1980 and 2000 the number was extremely low and only gets better. and improvements are made every day
a venomous snake has the capacity to inflict a fatal bite but lacks the desire to use it's venom on something it cannot consume... thats why they use a visual defence/s and or flee almost every time

-ReptilianGuy


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 28, 2010)

I've got tiger snakes in my house....and my kids squeal with delight when they see them!!! ....What's wrong with kids today???? :lol: Their friends are bloody scared of everything!


----------



## ShnakeyGirl (Jan 28, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> I've got tiger snakes in my house....and my kids squeal with delight when they see them!!! ....What's wrong with kids today???? :lol: Their friends are bloody scared of everything!


 

:lol::lol::lol: haha. kids just reflect the fear of the parents. Thats where all education starts, the parents


----------



## Darren86 (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm just wondering why it seems an acceptable punishment (to some) to euthanase a dog over it killing a snake, when it is a totally different story for humans. As mentioned previously dogs act on instinct and often that instinct is to attack anything that is a potential threat, they do not have the ability to analyse a situation before acting as humans do, so wouldn't that make a human who kills a snake worse? What would be the punishment for them?? Perhaps we should torture these people before killing them hey? 

It is regrettable that the snake was killed and portrayed badly in the media, but outlandish comments like killing a dog for killing a snake it irrational in my opinion, and makes you as left wing as they are right. Ideally we would all have snake proof yards with all non native animals confined within these areas, unfortunately that will never happen and people need to accept this. The best way to try and and change views is through education, not outrageous comments.


----------



## snakelady-viper (Jan 28, 2010)

We live in Australia where most venomous also call home.They were here first. It is about time that the narrow minded people learn that the reptiles are not out to get them. Leave them alone and they will do the same..
It seems strange that most people are more concerned over an EXOTIC animal than our beautiful wildlife. If you live near the bush then expect to see a snake now and then learn to live with them they are quite breath taking when you learn to watch insted of hitting with the rake or shovel.
Think of all the rats and mice that the snakes remove if not for the snakes we could be back in the plague days


----------



## morgs202 (Jan 29, 2010)

I think the dog would have killed the snake as soon as it saw it, regardless off people being in the same vacinity. Idiot reporters and idiot family for thinking otherwise


----------



## nocturnal_pulse (Jan 29, 2010)

can i just say when i read this thread i thought no the dog should not be put down he was just protecting his family, then i saw it on the news last night........and now i am disgusted in that whole god damn family .....the way they just kept throwing the dead snake at the dog like it was a chew toy or something with smiles on the faces WRONG!!!


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 29, 2010)

Is it any wonder snakes are flighty and defensive? People talk about snakes being the killers.......pffffffffffffft.....the figures show it's most definitely the other way around! Funny how we can distort the truth of the matter so conveniently, and to the degree everyone seems to swallow the lie hook, line and sinker!

Does this snake look like a killer in this photograph?






I did a relocation a few weeks ago and removed a rather large tiger snake from a property in the suburb behind me. Once I got this terrified creature into a large plastic tub it settled down quite remarkably and became more curious than anything. I explained to the concerned mother and her wide-eyed and fascinated kids that these animals are more afraid of us than we are of them, and generally only bite people when they are put in precarious positions. It was nice to show them this animal up close and in a contained situation and explain a few things about them without the wrongful labelling and hysteria that been unfairly hung upon them.


----------



## Poggle (Jan 29, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> Is it any wonder snakes are flighty and defensive? People talk about snakes being the killers.......pffffffffffffft.....the figures show it's most definitely the other way around! Funny how we can distort the truth of the matter so conveniently, and to the degree everyone seems to swallow the lie hook, line and sinker!
> 
> Does this snake look like a killer in this photograph?
> 
> ...




Well put and said


----------



## discomat (Jan 29, 2010)

craig.a.c said:


> Do you have young children? I don't think you would be singing the same song about tigers being "harmless" if your kids or yourself got bitten by one (and not getting medical help, yeah, real harmless). Get off your high horse. As it was said earlier, the dog WAS protecting its "family".


 



I think he was being sarcastic dude.


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 29, 2010)

I have a child, dogs and obviously work with snakes, however the question now comes, if the same dog "protected" its owner from a person, cat, dog or other "menacing" threat, would the dog be a hero, or a dangerous dog.

While it was doing its job, where is the RSPCA in their role as "all creatures great and small". While a tiger snake is a threat and the dog behaved on instinct to protect, if it was any other animal it would be put down, regardless of perception of the animals, but due to the fact it was a snake, its all good. 

People will always state that it is necessary to kill the snake because it could kill me, with that logic, why not crush cars, they could kill me, cut down tree's they could kill me, education is needed and unfortunately this is difficult due to our culture of the only good snake is a dead snake! Look at the real threats to us in society and deal with the ones we can control first......apart from disease, what kills most people in Australia....PEOPLE, not wildlife.


----------



## bally (Jan 29, 2010)

i have a staffy at home and she wont go anywhere near my snakes. shes scared of them. So for people to say that this dog should be put down really gets on my nerves. what if they were your kids and a snake entered your house and the kids accidentally step on it??? 

I believe the dog was protecting its family and knew the danger they were in. Even if tiger snakes are considered "placid" i still wouldnt want one roaming around my kids.


----------



## matt86 (Jan 29, 2010)

I think we need to give dogs a break in general.

Seriously, how many dogs DO get put down because some smart ****d little kid stands at a fence, hitting it in the face with a stick, and it finally snaps and gives him a chomp? Is that the dog's 'fault?' I would say no!

All animals react based on triggers... Some react 'positively,' and we would call them a good dog. Other's react 'negatively' and we class them as dangerous or put them down. 

Don't get me wrong, my heart really does go out to families who have had a dog attack on one of their children... I just think we need to step back and admit that sometimes, it really isn't the dog's fault.

I cringe when I see some of my fellow herpers try to 'defend' their stance on snakes. They get on a forum, or a news article, and proceed to tell everyone in society off, and make stupid statements like 'that dog should be put down.' Guys... SERIOUSLY, you're doing way more harm than good. We should be trying to bridge the gap between herpers and non-herpers, not widen it!!!


----------



## bally (Jan 29, 2010)

matt86 said:


> I think we need to give dogs a break in general.
> 
> Seriously, how many dogs DO get put down because some smart ****d little kid stands at a fence, hitting it in the face with a stick, and it finally snaps and gives him a chomp? Is that the dog's 'fault?' I would say no!
> 
> ...


 

i couldnt agree more


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 29, 2010)

My stance is not the fact that the dog killed the snake, its that groups like RSPCA will defend the rights of all other animals except reptiles. I have no issue with rural areas having to kill snakes in buildings, as there is no snake catcher around, I do have an issue with people killing snakes because they are snakes...until the attitude of people towards reptiles changes they will continue to get killed....groups like RSPCA have an obligation to educate the public about the fact that all animals have equal rights....this same staffie would have been labeled differently if it had been a cat or person that entered the open door!

The other aspect would be, what if the dog was bitten by the snake, vet bills, possible death, then snakes get a nasty write up. People can, and do train their dogs to alert you to a threat not attack it, we have done this with our dogs, and helped several dog trainers in reptile aversion, this way our pets leave reptiles alone....again....education, not just about snakes, but also education about training the pets we already have!


----------



## shellfisch (Jan 29, 2010)

matt86 said:


> i think we need to give dogs a break in general.
> 
> Seriously, how many dogs do get put down because some smart ****d little kid stands at a fence, hitting it in the face with a stick, and it finally snaps and gives him a chomp? Is that the dog's 'fault?' i would say no!
> 
> ...



me too!!


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 29, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> My stance is not the fact that the dog killed the snake, its that groups like RSPCA will defend the rights of all other animals except reptiles.



That's what I also find amusing!

The other amusing thing is how precious the DSE is about the keeping of reptiles, yet couldn't give a yelp about someone bashing an animals head in on Youtube! OMG if you miss a return by a week or so you risk being strung up by the testicles and repeatedly belted with a bread-board! The RSPCA are he greatest toothless tigers when it comes to stuff like this! If it isn't furry or cuddly you might as well slit your own throats!


----------



## JasonL (Jan 29, 2010)

I wonder how well it would go down if you belt someone staffy to death with a shovel because you felt threatened by it.


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 29, 2010)

You'd be up the creek and labelled a potential serial killer


----------



## Opalsdad (Jan 29, 2010)

I wonder if the roles were reversed and the snake killed the dog, if people would want the snake put down? nature is nature


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 29, 2010)

:lol: I see you Snakehandler! :lol:

Here's my next beauty! (Excuse the regular relocations b/s. I don't relocate too many animals at all .....not yet anyways!)



> Sorry to say Paul, but people who live on acreage need to get a clue before purchasing these properties. I relocate snakes on a pretty consistent basis. I have met people who have had no experience with snakes who have done relocating courses (off their own backs) so they have become educated and aware of the animals they have to deal with. Sometimes on a weekly basis! To suggest every home needs to arm themselves with a shotgun as protection is the typical hysterical rantings I’d expect from 99 percent of my sadly uneducated and misinformed clients. I do relocation services for next to nothing! My goal is to educate those wanting my help, and that’s against the overwhelming whitewash of hysteria the media constantly spreads about these animals, to give them some form of rational perspective. A shotgun to blow away every possum, kangaroo, snake, lizard and oversized worm isn’t a sustainable answer! It’s quite a primitive and barbaric reaction to something you know nothing about. Typical human behaviour! To be forever fearsome of something that really doesn’t stand a chance against a human being is just as ridiculous! It’s like holding back the tide! Time you got smart and took a plunge in learning a little bit about your surroundings. That’s lesson number one!


----------



## Gecko75 (Jan 29, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> You'd be up the creek and labelled a potential serial killer


 
thats very true, if you kill small animals as a child also you will grow up to be a serial killer, but only if the small animals are fluffy, snakes don't count if you kill them you will grow up as a hero:lol:

if it was the snake killing the dog, I would just say, oh well, maybe they should have left the door shut:lol: I am biased!


----------



## JoceyFisch (Jan 29, 2010)

Gecko75 said:


> thats very true, if you kill small animals as a child also you will grow up to be a serial killer, but only if the small animals are fluffy, snakes don't count if you kill them you will grow up as a hero:lol:


 
So true... this is from an article on news.com.au just today

"Professor Paul Wilson, a criminologist and forensic psychologist at Bond University, said the torturing, maiming and killing of animals were red flags of someone capable of future violence against people.


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 29, 2010)

Dont worry.....snakes dont count....they are reptiles...not animals!!!!


----------



## bally (Jan 29, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> My stance is not the fact that the dog killed the snake, its that groups like RSPCA will defend the rights of all other animals except reptiles. I have no issue with rural areas having to kill snakes in buildings, as there is no snake catcher around, I do have an issue with people killing snakes because they are snakes...until the attitude of people towards reptiles changes they will continue to get killed....groups like RSPCA have an obligation to educate the public about the fact that all animals have equal rights....this same staffie would have been labeled differently if it had been a cat or person that entered the open door!
> 
> The other aspect would be, what if the dog was bitten by the snake, vet bills, possible death, then snakes get a nasty write up. People can, and do train their dogs to alert you to a threat not attack it, we have done this with our dogs, and helped several dog trainers in reptile aversion, this way our pets leave reptiles alone....again....education, not just about snakes, but also education about training the pets we already have!


 
My dog will leave all reptiles alone except for maybe a little sniff but not everybody has the time to train or the money to pay for training with there dogs.

I do how ever agree with you on the fact theat that the RSPCA seems to view reptiles differently to other animals. 

Im not trying to provoke an argument or anything i just think its absolutely discusting that people are call for the dog to be put down.

Nick


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 29, 2010)

matt86 said:


> I cringe when I see some of my fellow herpers try to 'defend' their stance on snakes. They get on a forum, or a news article, and proceed to tell everyone in society off, and make stupid statements like 'that dog should be put down.' Guys... SERIOUSLY, you're doing way more harm than good.



I most definately agree with Matt's statement here. It truly does "more damage than good" regarding having the dog put down. We really have to be smarter in our approach.


----------



## bally (Jan 29, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> I most definately agree with Matt's statement here. It truly does "more damage than good" regarding having the dog put down. We really have to be smarter in our approach.


 

agreed


----------



## matt86 (Jan 29, 2010)

JasonL said:


> I wonder how well it would go down if you belt someone staffy to death with a shovel because you felt threatened by it.


 
Great point... and the sad thing for snakes (and this tiger snake in particular) is that people have the option to simply walk away from a snake. A vicious dog can't be walked away from. People choose NOT to walk away from a snake.

I think the real issue here has nothing to do with the Staffy, or the fact that it killed the snake - the real issue is the way the media over-hypes stories like this, and manipulates fact to get a rise out of the public. 

One day, I am sure, we'll live in a world where reptiles are such a major and constant presence in the pet industry that the fear factor slowly subsides. It won't happen in our lifetime... To be blunt, we need our parents, grandparents, children, and children's children to die before these misconceptions can die out with them, and gradually things will change. In the meantime, we need to do our best to be responsible ambassadors.


----------



## angieb (Jan 29, 2010)

*1. TEACH KidS...... but remeber kids should no wild snakes r not for touching at all...... 2. all animals and reptiles even humans sometimes cant be fully trusted and run on purely instinct.... (dogs dont usally like snakes what should have it done... hide) 3. KNOWLEDGE WORKS! and stuff the media.... cause they rairly get there facts right... bad outcome and publicitly for snakes.... *


----------



## Hooglabah (Jan 29, 2010)

matt86 said:


> Well that's just a stupid statement isn't it?
> Dogs protect their owners from what they perceive as danger... they do it out of love and instinct.
> Reptiles are my biggest passion in life, but I don't agree that other animals should be put down for killing them... certainly not in a situation like this.
> 
> ...



i agree with everything you have said except the bad press. its terrible press the dog is being praised for "saving" its family from an agressive, dangerous snake. ime tigers are actually fairly docile as a general rule. never mind that the media has painted it as if the snake was going to attack the kids all it was doing was crossing the back yard.


----------



## daniel1234 (Jan 29, 2010)

Yay for the dog
Better ring Geelong Advertiser and tell them of the brave dogs and cats that protect us from those mean and nasty blueys, birds etc.
If my dogs did I would stop them firstly because it is bad for the poor snake, and second, what if the dog copped a hit! Antivenom aint cheap.

Edit: Looks like snakehandler has the issue well covered. (long thread have not read it all like I usually do).
Hey, anyone write a letter to the papers editor?


----------



## naledge (Jan 30, 2010)

cris said:


> The Tiger Snake has every right to live in their house, these snakes are always placid and harmless, perfectly safe to have freeranging in your house and it was here first, kill that horrible dangerous dog that protected its family. Ranting like a deluded idiot is good fun and gives reptile keepers a good image.



Hahaha.

Although the dog probably wasn't protecting them, it just found a new toy to play with. Either way, it's an animal too.

The fact is. The snake could have and probably would have killed their child. The dog did save their lives.

To the people that think a snake that was going to kill humans has more right to live than a pet dog; you're seriously screwed up. The dog's a pet, if my dog was put down it'd be like losing a family member. It's pathetic to demand it's destruction, it's disgusting.

I honestly didn't think there were so many heartless, disgusting people on this website. But then again, I guess you're just proving the stereotypes of reptile keepers being heartless, satan-worshipping, monsters. Thanks for that guys, you're really helping the hobby out.


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 30, 2010)

Probably would have killed the child...where do you get that from, the snake was outside the house, going across the sliding door, if the child was properly educated then there is no risk, with only 2 snake bite deaths on average every year this seems a bit far fetched.

I am not calling for the destruction of the dog, I am simply saying that if this dog attacked anything else it would be deemed a dangerous dog, why make snake the exception. Before you say it, yes snakes kill people, but so do bees and DOGS, both kill an average of 1-2 people every year in Australia, so by the same logic does this mean that when you see a dog, you have the right to kill it because if it gets you it could have and probably would have killed your child!?!?!?!?!

I believe that the dog had every right to defend its house, its family. However the media hype and the ongoing lack of action by animal rights groups such as RSPCA annoy many herp people, if the dog was killed by the snake in this case then it would have been the snakes fault, despite the fact that the dog attacked it. It would be a no win situation for the snake. RSPCA should be encouraging families to do avoidance training with their dogs, this will reduce these sort of situations, we provide our services to several dog trainers in Melbourne for just such training.


----------



## GSXR_Boy (Jan 30, 2010)

Here is what a horrible brown snake did to some kids 

Snake charmer Gold Coast News | goldcoast.com.au | Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

( Just the first few paragraphs)


----------



## dtulip10 (Jan 30, 2010)

GSXR_Boy said:


> Here is what a horrible brown snake did to some kids
> 
> Snake charmer Gold Coast News | goldcoast.com.au | Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
> 
> ( Just the first few paragraphs)



thats a really good article, that slightly puts my faith back into the media.
cheers Dayle


----------



## nathancl (Jan 30, 2010)

i wouldnt say the dog needs to be put down. its instinct in a way for what it had done.

however .........

i would like the dog to turn on the family snap their spines so someone can finish them off with a rake... i suppose that wouldnt be conveyed as heroic and amazing in the media ?


----------



## GSXR_Boy (Jan 30, 2010)

dtulip10 said:


> thats a really good article, that slightly puts my faith back into the media.
> cheers Dayle


 
Not portrayed as badly as in the other article. Just goes to show what can happen when there wasn't any fear felt by the kids or the snake. Nothing. 
Snake sounds like it enjoyed a massage


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 30, 2010)

That Paul guy on the Geelong Advertiser (or whatever) is a fairdinkum twit! :lol: May his house become absolutely infested with snakes! hehe


----------



## chondrogreen (Jan 30, 2010)

*MY SOLUTION!*
Euthanise the dog, lock up the parents, foster care the kids out, then log on to an online Reptile forum and whinge about it while recruiting a group of other biased opinion keepers to follow suit. LOL


----------



## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

I dont understand why everyone feels its the dogs fault! the dog was doing exactly what it was TRAINED and ALLOWED to do!
If I owned a bull dog and TRAINED and ALLOWED it to hunt small children at the park shouldnt I be held responsable for that not the dog!
If I took a hunting dog that hadn't been stock proofed onto a farm and it killed a sheep then its my responsability!
I feel if you think something needs to be put down maybe you should look at the owners


----------



## naledge (Jan 30, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> Probably would have killed the child...where do you get that from, the snake was outside the house, going across the sliding door, if the child was properly educated then there is no risk, with only 2 snake bite deaths on average every year this seems a bit far fetched.
> 
> I am not calling for the destruction of the dog, I am simply saying that if this dog attacked anything else it would be deemed a dangerous dog, why make snake the exception. Before you say it, yes snakes kill people, but so do bees and DOGS, both kill an average of 1-2 people every year in Australia, so by the same logic does this mean that when you see a dog, you have the right to kill it because if it gets you it could have and probably would have killed your child!?!?!?!?!
> 
> I believe that the dog had every right to defend its house, its family. However the media hype and the ongoing lack of action by animal rights groups such as RSPCA annoy many herp people, if the dog was killed by the snake in this case then it would have been the snakes fault, despite the fact that the dog attacked it. It would be a no win situation for the snake. RSPCA should be encouraging families to do avoidance training with their dogs, this will reduce these sort of situations, we provide our services to several dog trainers in Melbourne for just such training.



I never said the dog has more right to live and I know that dogs kill people too. So your sarcastic "logic" is really invalid. I just think that the calls for the dog to be put down are sick. And anyway, I bet you've killed your fair-share of bees. Maybe I should go out and kill a few random snakes to make up up for it. 

And honestly, how the hell do you educate a three year old in the proper care and handling of elapids? Of course they weren't properly educated, they're kids for christ sakes. 

The dog killed the snake, big deal. Obviously every member of APS is deluded and thinks that no snake ever dies or when they do they're shipped off to a magical land with all the mice they can eat.

Snakes die in the wild, every day. An animal killed an animal, it doesn't deserve to die.

Personally, the people that go out and butcher hundreds of kangaroos for fun, the people that hunt animals for sport - they deserve to die a hell of a lot more than a dog who killed one animal that if in the situation probably would have killed the children, who have no education in venomous snakes, because they're 7, 6 and 3.

If this had been a wallaby or a bird that the dog had killed nobody would care, but it's the almighty, precious reptile so it's all out war on this dog now.

Watch out Zena, the satan-worshipping reptile keepers are after you.


----------



## chondrogreen (Jan 30, 2010)

I've seen carnage of a group of birds killed by a snake in an aviary.
It only ate a single pigeon but it killed about 8 others and left them dead on the floor. *Euthanise it huh?* 


And what if that evil dog had of killed an innocent field mouse? Would we be writing up 5 pages of responses about it?


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 30, 2010)

I haven't personally got any issues with the dog, as they sometimes don't know any better than their instinct to protect their family. My issue is with the dumb-smuck redneck property owner who thinks a shotty solves everything! A snake phobia, in my opinion, is a primitive phobia based on an inbred primal fear. I like to think as herpetologists, we're the next step in human evolution


----------



## naledge (Jan 30, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> I haven't personally got any issues with the dog, as they sometimes don't know any better than their instinct to protect their family. My issue is with the dumb-smuck redneck property owner who thinks a shotty solves everything! A snake phobia, in my opinion, is a primitive phobia based on an inbred primal fear. I like to think as herpetologists, we're the next step in human evolution



A good percentage of phobias are irrational.


----------



## cris (Jan 30, 2010)

Naledge, without being there and seeing the situation it think its a pretty big call to say it would have killed someone, even a bite isnt that likely to be fatal(although it would be very nasty). To get bitten something is going to have to make the snake bite, some kids try to colour them in without getting bitten :lol: :shock:



moosenoose said:


> I haven't personally got any issues with the dog, as they sometimes don't know any better than their instinct to protect their family. My issue is with the dumb-smuck redneck property owner who thinks a shotty solves everything! A snake phobia, in my opinion, is a primitive phobia based on an inbred primal fear. I like to think as herpetologists, we're the next step in human evolution



In rural areas a shotty is usually the best thing for dangerous snakes that are in a place where they pose a threat. Its safe, humane and legal. There are plenty of sane decent ppl who shoot snakes, there are also those less than desirable specimens that will just kill any snakes anywhere to be try and look or feel tough or whatever other sick motivation they have.


----------



## redbellybite (Jan 30, 2010)

I am surprised no one yet has simply blamed the CAT!!....


----------



## Mighty_Moose (Jan 30, 2010)

naledge said:


> The dog killed the snake, big deal. Obviously every member of APS is deluded and thinks that no snake ever dies or when they do they're shipped off to a magical land with all the mice they can eat.



You mean they don't go to a happy Snake Heaven:cry:... Way to break it to me gently...


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 30, 2010)

Naledge, its simple, no owner no touch...we have been teaching this rule to pre-school children (3 and over) for years with great success. We also need to teach children, freeze and allow the snake to move away...but all of this is easy said, means nothing unless enforced by parents and older siblings.

Its not that the dog killed the snake, its the lack of understanding that people are upset by, reptiles are not treated as animals by the vast majority of people. If the dog killed a wallaby...it would be put down as a dangerous dog, actually if it killed any cute fury animal then it would have been put down as a dangerous dog....I am not saying that the dog should be put down, however people need to understand that if this was any other animal that was killed by the dog then the article would read very differently. Do a google search and look at the different tones of the articles...

I see no need to kill an animal unless there is no alternative...its either food for me, a pet, or it is seriously injured. I am not a greenie, hippie or conservationist, I am a person sick of hearing the old sayings the only good snake is a dead snake, that snakes are going to kill us so we must kill them and other misinformed statements.

Dogs can be trained and are trained to avoid attacking things that they would normally go for, the main reason we would like this to happen is to avoid massive vet bills, avoid watching a pet die a very painful death and of course to avoid having our native wildlife killed, this is commonly called responsible pet ownership. A person can be charged if their pet kills native wildlife, including snakes. That is why our wildlife is protected.


----------



## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

well said snakehandler


----------



## cris (Jan 30, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> Its not that the dog killed the snake, its the lack of understanding that people are upset by, reptiles are not treated as animals by the vast majority of people. If the dog killed a wallaby...it would be put down as a dangerous dog, actually if it killed any cute fury animal then it would have been put down as a dangerous dog....I am not saying that the dog should be put down, however people need to understand that if this was any other animal that was killed by the dog then the article would read very differently. Do a google search and look at the different tones of the articles...



What if it killed a goldfish or a rat? they are animals too. If it killed any other animal not capable of killing humans it wouldnt be in the news to start with.


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 31, 2010)

People have been prosecuted for inhumane treatment of rats....


----------



## naledge (Jan 31, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> People have been prosecuted for inhumane treatment of rats....



But nobody would care.

It seems like the majority of reptile keepers think reptiles are an almighty, holy animal and no other animal compares. That people can kill and be cruel to animals, as long as it's not a reptile. It's disgusting, the way people talk about this dog, the way they talk about cats. It's only promoting the stereotypes.


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 31, 2010)

Naledge if you actually look through the majority of people who are reptile lovers they will tell you that a pet is a pet, regardless of its type, it is our responsibility as pet owners to ensure our pets do not interact with native wildlife as much as possible...again its call responsible pet ownership......I agree this dog does not deserve to be put down, but it should be pointed out that the killing of any animal by a pet is not acceptable and the dog should not be labeled a hero!

I shouldnt matter if people care about what prosecutions there are, but that all animals are treated with respect, our pets have NO reason to interact with wildlife and should always be trained not to. No-one thinks that the reptiles are better than others and have more rights, but it is fact that the general population believe reptiles have less rights than animals with fur, hence the reason herpers get over the top with people accepting the inhuman killing of reptiles and how people and animals are regarded as heros when they kill snakes and cruel potential serial killers when they kill any other animal!


----------



## naledge (Jan 31, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> Naledge if you actually look through the majority of people who are reptile lovers they will tell you that a pet is a pet, regardless of its type, it is our responsibility as pet owners to ensure our pets do not interact with native wildlife as much as possible...again its call responsible pet ownership......I agree this dog does not deserve to be put down, but it should be pointed out that the killing of any animal by a pet is not acceptable and the dog should not be labeled a hero!
> 
> I shouldnt matter if people care about what prosecutions there are, but that all animals are treated with respect, our pets have NO reason to interact with wildlife and should always be trained not to. No-one thinks that the reptiles are better than others and have more rights, but it is fact that the general population believe reptiles have less rights than animals with fur, hence the reason herpers get over the top with people accepting the inhuman killing of reptiles and how people and animals are regarded as heros when they kill snakes and cruel potential serial killers when they kill any other animal!



I know it shouldn't be called a hero.

But in this thread the majority of people want this dog to be killed, they want a family pet to be destroyed.

The majority of people on this forum would kill people's pet cats if given the chance.

I'm not just talking about pets here either, a lot of members here are hunters. I'm sure most believe spotlighting kangaroos is fun.

But, if I came on and said "OMG DUDES I JUST KILLED THIS HARDCORE SNAKE CHECK THE PIX" the forum would probably be shut down for a while because of all the hate.

I don't see what gives snakes more right to live than kangaroos, ducks, birds, dogs, cats... any other animal in the world.

Most members here are incredibly biased, killing any animal for fun is heartless. Wishing death upon a family pet for it's instinct is just disgusting.

There was a thread on here a few weeks ago of a guy that killed a cat because it went into his backyard, the majority of people thought he was a hero and praised him saying they would do the same thing. Does that mean if a snake comes into my backyard I can kill it? Or let my dog kill it?

I know it's different because cats are introduced; kangaroos are native. Yet I'm sure a lot of people here have had a jolly old time massacring them for crossing "their" property.


----------



## $NaKe PiMp (Jan 31, 2010)

yes many dogs are far more dangerous to children than timid tigersnakes as are reversing drivers and pools kids drown in


----------



## cris (Jan 31, 2010)

naledge said:


> The majority of people on this forum would kill people's pet cats if given the chance.



No thats the RSPCA's job, i wouldnt kill anyone's pet, but i would take them them in for the RSPCA to do it. If someone else has a cat (or any other animal) that keeps coming in their yards killing their own pets and/or wildlife on their own property i wouldnt judge them for killing it, personally i would trap it and take it to the RSPCA as i just said, but each to their own. 

A feral cat is a diffferant story, its a legal requirement to kill them if they are on your property(in QLD at least) so its against site rules for me to say you shouldnt kill them. Many talking about hating cats are refering mainly to feral cats (well i hope), as they are the ones that cause the most damage.


----------



## morgs202 (Jan 31, 2010)

I don't think the dog should be killed. Just the feral owners.


----------



## fishunter (Jan 31, 2010)

I completely agree with naledge well said if a tiger snake came into my backyard anywhere near a child of mine and i wasnt there (for any reason) to relocate the snake then i would be more then happy for my staffy to kill it to protect my kid. From what im hearing from some people on this forum is that its fine for there child to be put in danger with a tiger snake and potentially bitten and killed but just as long as the snake leaves happy and healthy! Some people are just blind with their animal rights beliefs and fail to understand the basic instinct of animals. i would hate to kill any snake if i didn't have to, but given the extreme situation where a family member of mine is in immediate danger i would be more then happy to. Surely a dead snake is better then a dead child! I think some people need to wake up to themselves...


----------



## snakehandler (Jan 31, 2010)

Read the article again...the snake was at the door, not in the house, it was not a direct threat, the children could have moved to another room....personally that is not the issue...its the label hero dog that gets me....dog defend family from tiger snake just wont sell papers....hero dog saves family from menacing tiger snake, this will sell and yet does not speak of the true nature of snakes. I have seen a brown snake sitting watching a group of children who had sat around it without realising...it did not attack, it did not pose a threat, the children moved away slowely from it and the snake was caught....our pets (dogs and cats) are more likely to create a threatening situation, hence responsible ownership, training is the key!


----------



## moosenoose (Jan 31, 2010)

cris said:


> In rural areas a shotty is usually the best thing for dangerous snakes that are in a place where they pose a threat. Its safe, humane and legal. There are plenty of sane decent ppl who shoot snakes, there are also those less than desirable specimens that will just kill any snakes anywhere to be try and look or feel tough or whatever other sick motivation they have.



Well it's really the most care-free way of getting rid of a potentially deadly animal isn't it? I mean, you just have to aim and shoot...easy! I don't know who I'm trying to kid when it comes to snake conservation. We're dealing with many of these "country-style-folk" who've been brought up via generation upon generation of "a good snake is a dead snake" attitudes and a failure to adapt to anything even slightly contrary. Sometimes we can’t bridge the great divide between ourselves and these sorts of people. We have the media flying the typical fear-mongering flag, plus ignorance and a tidal wave of other negative factors against us, so I’m probably stupid and ignorant myself when I think any message I preach will sink into their tiny, self-centred brains. Some people out there are trying though, they ring a relocator, they take the steps in understanding the fact that we actually share this planet with other animals.

The thing I don’t get is this. Why the hell should anyone else out there give a damn about the high moral attitudes of government bodies like the DSE and NPSW and their ranting of animal conservation and laws when they aren’t prepared to put the money where their mouths are??? Arm local parks rangers with the knowledge and ability to deal with the animals in their jurisdiction! They should be able to deal with call-outs 9-5 and then have residents reimbursed by councils should others be called outside those times!! These government bodies want (demand) that people do the right thing, but expect many struggling bush families to cough up the extravagant relocation fees that some people seem to charge! I can tell people for a fact, if I was getting 4 and 5 snakes on my property each week, or fortnight, or even monthly…and I disliked or didn’t understand them, I’d be taking to them with whatever I had at my disposal! Gun, stick, rake, dog…anything! I couldn’t afford a $1000 worth of call-outs! And we all know how many people get prosecuted killing these things each year don’t we? Nobody!

Ps: Don’t forget to put your returns in! They’ll send the DSE swat team over to kick down your doors and issue you with the mother of all fines! (not that its happened to me, but look at the double standard!). Food for thought!


----------



## BenReyn (Jan 31, 2010)

This is far too common unfortunately 
Introduced species killing native wildlife is bad enough, then being praised for it...
Sigh..


----------



## redbellybite (Feb 1, 2010)

Wonders to all that lay claim that if they had a venomous snake in their yard ..and their child was in the same yard at the same time playing happily untill all the commotion started and they watched their beloved pet dog attack the snake and unfortunantly cop a few tags to the mouth and else where ..
ended up with a dying snake and a dying dog ...all because of the WHAT IF SENARIO ...
much easier and better for all concerned to actually take your child indoors ,restrain your dog and allow the snake to move on ..that way everything WINS ....

How many that take their children to the beach for a days swimming ,take along a spear gun or dog to kill that shark that could be lingering in the water only meters away from your playing squealing children ???
Dogs will act on instinct this is true ...but so will snakes under threat ....your job as the smarter human is to try and prevent it, not encourage it .


----------



## cris (Feb 1, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> Well it's really the most care-free way of getting rid of a potentially deadly animal isn't it?



Yeah that was my point, getting some one to drive a few hundred k's would be likey cause road kill, apart form being a waste of time and probably a few hundred dollars (unless the snake is an endagered species). I personally have more of an issue with those that mow their lawns and kill innocent garden skinks, i must admit i mow my lawn, although i do take 10 times longer in the warmer months to save a few hundred frogs and skinks(even if getting rid out their habitat kills them indirectly i get a warm fuzzy feeling like a snake relocator does).

I guess the best option would be for everyone in a rural area to learn to handle snakes and get a DMP, cant see it happening on a large scale though.


----------



## juggy_85 (Feb 1, 2010)

I know that as a herp owner its sad to see a snake killed but the dog done as it was suppose to, I have a large dog and no one thought it did wrong when it killed another dog that came into our yard where my kids were as it had done its job i have it to protect my home and my family they are very smart at reading a situation as we have many pets from mice to goats and rabbits and he has never halmed anything that wouldn't be taken as a theat


----------



## mouse_has_faith (Feb 1, 2010)

A staffy ran out from a house and attacked my dog the other day... she sent it packing poste haste, yelping and with its tail between its legs!!


----------



## ReptilianGuy (Feb 5, 2010)

Naledge your a TOOL.

do you have any knowledge on why and what roo's are shot for, a license is needed in order to do so and the roo is taken to the boxes for pet meat ect. it's a conservative way to keep an ever growing population in check as in many areas they are in plaige poportions, and i would and have quite happily gone hunt feral game for fun and to do my part in dropping a feral animal population. just cos i've killed a feral cat or pig doesn't mean i'm going to kill my neighbours cat or a farmers pig. the dog did what many dogs will do when their owners are screaming, kill the percieved threat... Snakehandler has covered this subject very well imo and so have many other herpers. a snake is easily avoided and this tiger in paricular was traveling along the tracks of the door. 
it had no intention of killing the kids or parents as *no snake ever does. *had the animal have gone inside the house it would have more than likely ended up finding a place for cover as the family would have done something to make it react to their presence and got out of danger. highly unlikely that it would have bit anyone so long as they did all the right things and the dog wouldn't have been at risk of getting bit either. 

when i grew up in north queensland we had numerous indoor encounters with snakes, all pythons and tree-snakes and one eastern brown that was between the screne door and timber door but none of them were there for the purpose of killing my parents and brothers, they were there for the cover and hunting frogs we often had come into my bedroom for the day. and all incedent free indoor encounters... 

it's all about education and "openmindedness" cos seriously they aren't as horrible and nasty as many think.

and why'd did you have to kill snakey heaven for us all, it's true there is a snakey heaven, just has to be:lol:


----------



## Bricked (Feb 5, 2010)

well, you cant blame people for beong scared. before i developed a hobby for snakes (for lack of a better word) I was scared of snakes. The fear of snakes is natural and built into your brain. well, not the snake, but the snakes shape and the way it moves.


----------



## ReptilianGuy (Feb 5, 2010)

yeah i to had a fear as well due to my families view on them, but people are pig headed on whatever the issue. but if there is education it is at least a start and with more people getting interested in the hobby, it shows a bit of our efforts is paying off to some small degree... all my friends say i have no fear and should give up my day job to work with dangerous animals now, when really i just found a deep respect for these amazingly beautiful creatures, and it honestly isn't fear that we have, it's a lack of respect for these magnificent animals, it's lack of respect and understanding that drives our fear. if it can potentially hurt or kills us we hate it's existance.

all that has to be done is turn the disrespect, misconceptions, and lack of understanding around to just simple respect of the animal for what it is and is capable of if we mess with them in order to leave it at a distance and let it go on it's way or get someone that can relocate the animal alive.

also take these animals out of the equation you take out a vital food chain species so something else feathery or fury will suffer that preys on reptiles. everything impacts something else. so there is more reasons to save them other than just saving snakes


----------



## naledge (Feb 5, 2010)

ReptilianGuy said:


> Naledge your a TOOL.



Haha, five bucks to whoever can point out the irony.


----------



## Guest (Feb 5, 2010)

naledge said:


> Haha, five bucks to whoever can point out the irony.


 
Hahahahaha


----------



## naledge (Feb 6, 2010)

ReptilianGuy said:


> do you have any knowledge



I would assume so! Otherwise my username would just be plain silly!



ReptilianGuy said:


> a license is needed in order to do so and the roo is taken to the boxes for pet meat ect. it's a conservative way to keep an ever growing population in check as in many areas they are in plaige poportions



You naivety worries me. Most farmers don't care about licenses. I've heard stories, from many people. 

Sorry to burst your safety bubble, but they do have a jolly good time hacking injured roos to death with hatchets.



ReptilianGuy said:


> and i would and have quite happily gone hunt feral game for fun and to do my part in dropping a feral animal population. just cos i've killed a feral cat or pig doesn't mean i'm going to kill my neighbours cat or a farmers pig.



Still an animal. Hey here's an idea, let's go out and kill all the immigrants!! They're here from other countries, they're changing (not ruining) our society and economy, like feral animals are changing (not ruining) our ecosystem! 

(Note, I wasn't serious about the immigrant killing. I find that (slightly) more disgusting than killing animals. And I love animals, sarcasm isn't meant to offend. So sorry to any immigrants, I love you all <3)



ReptilianGuy said:


> it had no intention of killing the kids or parents as *no snake ever does. *



Wait, so dogs can have the intention to kill but not snakes? Either you're admitting snakes are pretty darn stupid creatures, or you're being incredibly biased. Like most reptile owners... you listen to death metal don't you?




ReptilianGuy said:


> had the animal have gone inside the house it would have more than likely ended up finding a place for cover



Or it would have killed the crying two year old. Hell I'd crap myself if I saw a tiger snake in my house, there is no way in hell you can get a two year old child to act rationally around a venomous snake.

Will you take the risk when you have kids? Frankly, if you're ever in that position, I'm hoping you aren't, but if you ever are, I pray that you have a dog there to save your child. Because you would obviously let the thing crawl over your kids and bite them if it wanted to, the Almighty reptile, no child could ever compare huh?



ReptilianGuy said:


> it's all about education and "openmindedness" cos seriously they aren't as horrible and nasty as many think.



Who are you to preach open mindedness? You, like 90% of other reptile enthusiasts, don't give a crap about an animal without scales.


----------



## GeckoJosh (Feb 6, 2010)

I dont understand what the owners have done wrong, the dog was inside and responded to the families screams of terror saw a snake at the door and killed it.
Its not like they were in bushland, it was there home. How many dog owners do you know that let there dog roam their house and or yard, are you going to flame them for all the creatures their dogs kill that stumble into its territory?. What the dog did was instinct just like a snakes instinct to strike when cornered.
Besides the dog would have attacked before anyone could have stopped it (and by the sounds of it the mother and kids attempted to call the dog off) so all the owners could do afterwards is think what if the dog wasn't there, the snake may have come inside, the kid saw it and without realizing the danger cornered the snake and got bitten and very likely could have died.
Im not looking for an argument this is jmo and it doesnt mean i agree with how it was publicised


----------



## snakehandler (Feb 6, 2010)

And if the dog was bitten by the snake when it acted instinctively then the snake was at fault? I agree the dog didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't be put down, it acted on it's instinct, however it is possible to train dogs to allert to danger and not attack it, we are involved in aversion training in parts of Melbourne to stop this style of interaction, not just as a reptile enthusiast but also as a breeder of dogs.....the last thing I want is to see on of my dogs bitten. 

When my dogs see reptiles they alert us they are around, they do not attempt to bite it ever, the same goes for anything strange....they will only bite if they are threatened directly or we instruct them to


----------



## snakehandler (Feb 6, 2010)

Btw this does not mean I would trust the dogs 100% either, they are animals....people are supervised around them


----------



## ReptilianGuy (Feb 6, 2010)

naledge said:


> I would assume so! Otherwise my username would just be plain silly!
> 
> it very well should be, i'd get an infraction if i called you what you actually are...
> 
> ...


 
you know me and so many other reptile entousiast so well don't you....:lol::lol::lol: again cant call you what i want to call you so use your imagination cos you wont be far off...
i keep furry and feathered animals also and all of them have just as much respect as i have for reptiles. i'm an enthousiast of all native wildlife for your information, just reptiles and birds are my most favourite so get off your soap box. if this had of been one of those menacing rabid koalas i would be saying all the same. all animals act on defence, just depends on what triggers that response. but us being alive doesn't do it for reptiles...

you don't don't deserve any further comment from me and don't twist my words again... 

it begs the question as to why your on this site as it seems obvious that you hate reptiles and thier keepers.....


----------



## Guest (Feb 6, 2010)

again you are the bluntest tool in the shed. i have three tigers inside my house constanly and have for some time, me nor my friends or fiance have been bit and nor will they.

if your talking about in a tank then that doesn't really compair to naledge's coment or this topic of the thread for that matter and if theres wild tigersnakes roaming your house like implied then who are you to be calling someone a tool???


do you have any knowledge on why and what roo's are shot for, a license is needed in order to do so and the roo is taken to the boxes for pet meat ect. it's a conservative way to keep an ever growing population in check

Its pretty naive to think all roo's are shot under licence!!
I know people that shoot them for dog food
I also know people that shoot them for fun

I dont understand what your attack on naledge was in the first place but your coments seem a little uneducated

P.S we dont have any menacing rabid koalas LOL


----------



## ReptilianGuy (Feb 6, 2010)

Farma said:


> again you are the bluntest tool in the shed. i have three tigers inside my house constanly and have for some time, me nor my friends or fiance have been bit and nor will they.
> 
> if your talking about in a tank then that doesn't really compair to naledge's coment or this topic of the thread for that matter and if theres wild tigersnakes roaming your house like implied then who are you to be calling someone a tool???
> 
> ...


 
...:lol::lol:


----------



## naledge (Feb 6, 2010)

ReptilianGuy said:


> you know me and so many other reptile entousiast so well don't you....:lol::lol::lol: again cant call you what i want to call you so use your imagination cos you wont be far off...
> i keep furry and feathered animals also and all of them have just as much respect as i have for reptiles. i'm an enthousiast of all native wildlife for your information, just reptiles and birds are my most favourite so get off your soap box. if this had of been one of those menacing rabid koalas i would be saying all the same. all animals act on defence, just depends on what triggers that response. but us being alive doesn't do it for reptiles...
> 
> you don't don't deserve any further comment from me and don't twist my words again...
> ...



I don't hate reptiles and their keepers, I hate people that kill animals. I hate people that want animals to be killed. Unless it's for food. 

And I'm not that anti-social, but I tend to be a little bit when people attack me for my opinions. Especially considering my opinion was a positive one, to not kill the dog. What's wrong with that?

Oh and if part of your sig's about me, I've kept seven native animals, five were reptiles. I will have more when I move out though. So I wouldn't call me a non-wildlife keeper.



Farma said:


> again you are the bluntest tool in the shed. i have three tigers inside my house constanly and have for some time, me nor my friends or fiance have been bit and nor will they.
> 
> if your talking about in a tank then that doesn't really compair to naledge's coment or this topic of the thread for that matter and if theres wild tigersnakes roaming your house like implied then who are you to be calling someone a tool???
> 
> ...



Hehe thank you xD

And I dunno, I have seen a few videos of some angry koalas, vicious little things.


----------



## mouse_has_faith (Feb 6, 2010)

> Still an animal. Hey here's an idea, let's go out and kill all the immigrants!! They're here from other countries, they're changing (not ruining) our society and economy, like *feral animals are changing (not ruining) our ecosystem*!



Um... what?


----------



## naledge (Feb 6, 2010)

mouse_has_faith said:


> Um... what?



I know they're killing our native animals. But they're just changing, not killing, the ecosystem. In 100 years we could have a completely different ecosystem. Different animals, different plants. It could be better, it could be worse. 

But, there is really nothing we can do about it. It's already changing so rapidly and it's out of our control.

The animals in our country now were not all here five-hundred years ago, things gradually change. It's the way the world is, well, at-least that's what I believe. As animals evolve, so do ecosystems. They change, they adapt. 

For better or worse our environment is changing, there isn't much we can do about it. But we don't know for sure that it's such a terrible thing.

The introduced animals could evolve and adapt to Australian conditions, eventually creating different animals. Our natives could evolve to be immune to can toad toxins. 

We just have to let nature take it's course.


----------



## nathan09 (Feb 6, 2010)

that dogs deserves a medal.

its doing what loyal Canine's and what staffy's do best! protecting its family!
if that dog gets put down, ill make a effin uproar, staffy's are the best breed of dog, no doubt! i love them to death and DO NOT want to see this dog put down for killing a snake that would of possibely killed them!


----------



## ReptilianGuy (Feb 6, 2010)

naledge said:


> Oh and if part of your sig's about me, I've kept seven native animals, five were reptiles. I will have more when I move out though. So I wouldn't call me a non-wildlife keeper.


 
nah it wasn't it was all those outside the hobby that rag keepers out for saying snakes have rights and are protect to. but not everyone believes so.


----------



## baxtor (Feb 6, 2010)

naledge said:


> I know they're killing our native animals. But they're just changing, not killing, the ecosystem. In 100 years we could have a completely different ecosystem. Different animals, different plants. It could be better, it could be worse.
> 
> But, there is really nothing we can do about it. It's already changing so rapidly and it's out of our control.
> 
> ...



with all due respect I think you just lost the plot with this crap. The ferals need to be eliminated to the extent that that is possible.


----------



## snakehandler (Feb 6, 2010)

By resigning to the conclusion that ferals belong in Australia it shows a persons understanding of how ecosystems function, changes are natural, migration is natural, however what we have done is not part of this process, that said, what Naledge, what knowledge of venomous snakes do you have? What experience have you got with them?

Yes people kill for fun, they kill native animals....if caught they get prosecuted for animal cruelty, if the animal has fur. No one here is under any illusion otherwise, however this does not condone the actions of killing reptiles without reason. In the news we hear of people clubbing mammals to death, they are monsters, then clubbing snakes and they are heros, why, because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as we educated more people, more people will care. It is not an eye for an eye, the dog does not deserve to die, but if this dog mauled any other native, it would be destroyed for doing what comes naturally, it needs to be trained....and the owners (like many others) properly educated.


----------



## brewmaster (Feb 6, 2010)

jack said:


> a simple analysis of hospital admission records would undoubtedly demonstrate that dangerous dogs do more damage to children than timid tigers...



perhaps its because the numbers of dangerous dogs far outweigh the number of snakes


----------



## sara_sabian (Feb 7, 2010)

I don't think the dog should be put down, it's not going to bring the tiger back is it? 
That said, I think the parents deserve a smack around the ear. I wont be surprised if that dog is bitten by a snake one day, they're reinforcing it's behaviour by using the dead snake as a toy. It's going to chase any small thing it sees now. 
Good thing they called the vet to check what snake bite symptoms are, my guess is that they'll see them soon enough. Morons.


----------



## naledge (Feb 7, 2010)

snakehandler said:


> By resigning to the conclusion that ferals belong in Australia it shows a persons understanding of how ecosystems function, changes are natural, migration is natural, however what we have done is not part of this process, that said, what Naledge, what knowledge of venomous snakes do you have? What experience have you got with them?
> 
> Yes people kill for fun, they kill native animals....if caught they get prosecuted for animal cruelty, if the animal has fur. No one here is under any illusion otherwise, however this does not condone the actions of killing reptiles without reason. In the news we hear of people clubbing mammals to death, they are monsters, then clubbing snakes and they are heros, why, because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as we educated more people, more people will care. It is not an eye for an eye, the dog does not deserve to die, but if this dog mauled any other native, it would be destroyed for doing what comes naturally, it needs to be trained....and the owners (like many others) properly educated.



People are animals too, a bird carrying a parasite from one country to another is like a human carrying an animal from one country to another right?

I never said I had experience with venomous snakes haha, asking random questions for no reason gets us nowhere. And I don't believe I questioned your information on venomous snakes. I questioned your thoughts on humans, but then again, what experience do you have with psychology and the way a two year old child's mind (even if educated) would react around a venomous snake. Being a reptiles keeper, I know more about reptiles than most people who don't keep, but I'd probably freak out if I saw a ven in my house too. It's up to the individual, it's not just a matter of if they're educated or not. I know I'm perfectly safe in a plane, I still crap myself when I fly. I know that when my snake bites me it doesn't hurt, I still flinch every time he strikes.

It's about the way the individual's mind works, not just their education.

I agree with you though, it is wrong for people to kill reptiles and be called heroes, it's wrong for them to kill reptiles at all. But, a lot of members here think reptiles are above all others and would condone, or even partake in, the killing of an animal if it wasn't a reptile.

That is what I have a problem with.

As you're saying, most people do hate reptiles and would kill them, and do kill them, nobody does a thing. That's disgusting. BUT, it's also disgusting for so many reptile keepers, 'animal lovers' to want this dog dead, to think it's okay to kill any animal if it's not a reptile. It's just as bad.

That's all I've been trying to say, my main point was just that I am utterly disgusted with the amount of people that want the dog to be put down. Especially since most of them would call themselves animal lovers, when in actuality they're biased and cruel.


----------



## snakehandler (Feb 7, 2010)

Naledge, given a science degree and a teaching diploma, having worked in education for years, I do believe that I have a very good understanding of childhood development and learning. You have made several rash statements with a clear lack of understanding of animal behaviour and the responsibility involved in pet ownership. The question to you experience with venomous snakes is directly linked to your statements about the behaviour of snakes, it is not random at all.

Given this is a reptile forum, what do you expect, that reptile lovers will put other animals first.....that would be like going to a dog forum and wondering why these people think dogs are above all others!!!!


----------



## mouse_has_faith (Feb 9, 2010)

Naledge, whilst it's _technically_ true that the ecosystem will survive, its obviously, morally, the right thing to try to keep it in its most natural state as possible. Since humans stuffed up most of the system, the onus is on us to try to repair it as much as we can- I don't accept that we should sit back and say, "well, it's too far gone" as you suggest.
In addition, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't consider cats and foxes and viable replacement for tazzie devils, northern hairy-nosed wombats or echidnas, nor do I think Indian mynahs are an acceptable replacement for our lovely parrots and finches. You say the ecosystem could possibly improve. I suggest that, given that Australia's age and isolation lead it to have so many endemic and unique animals, passively allowing the domestic, dime-a-dozen animals found the world-over to replace our rare natives will leave us and our kids with a far less interesting natural heritage.


----------



## snakehandler (Feb 9, 2010)

Well said "mouse" ..... our responsibility lies with keeping Australia's wildlife intact, not accepting feral domestic pets to take a good foothold, but regardless of that, we have a greater responsibility towards responsible pet ownership, ensuring that all pets are kept safely and not permitted to attack people or native wildlife, this includes our beloved reptiles.


----------



## Serpentes_15 (Feb 9, 2010)

What ****s me the most is the "menacing tiger snake". If that was the neighbors cat it would be considered the "neighbors poor cat mauled by vicious dog". The dogs being territiorial, thats what they do. The snake is simply moving, funnily enough something that a real life, living animal might sometimes do. Both are acting naturally. Then the media hypes it up casting a negative light on the snake. This condones the killing of snakes because they are "menacing". By the same logic i should shoot and kill the next johovas witness who harasses me as they were actually engaging in personal discussion. Far more menacing than just moving. In fact i'd be hailed a hero for saving my family and neighbors from the agony of politely declining interest in there religion. For crying out loud all the poor animal was doing was moving from point a to point b. It can't even see properly past 1.2 metres.

It makes me sick.
The fact that the RSPCA are loving this storey makes me sick.
The fact that the RSPCA don't care makes me sick.
"All creatures great and small" my ****. Your nothing but a bunch of media hungry hypocrits. 

This storey has added insult to injury in the fight against the unfair persecution of our truly unique elapids.


----------



## syeph8 (Mar 13, 2010)

naledge said:


> But nobody would care.
> 
> It seems like the majority of reptile keepers think reptiles are an almighty, holy animal and no other animal compares. That people can kill and be cruel to animals, as long as it's not a reptile. It's disgusting, the way people talk about this dog, the way they talk about cats. It's only promoting the stereotypes.



Im sorry mate, but I would like to encourage you to read through the posts prior to this one and read how many people are saying that the dog should be mistreated as a result of this incident. I can see one... and another that may be interpreted either way, I think you may be making generalisations based on your imagination, rather than what has actually been said. 

You have made some very good points, butIi would stop repeating that a majority of herp enthusiasts are disgusting mammal haters(with cult inferences too). I think you'll find that most herp keepers also have dogs and some have cats and that they are equal part of the family to their herps. A lot of people, not just herp enthusiasts believe in the nationwide culling of feral exotics though, because its good for our contry in the long run. but that the issue really being raised in the thread is how can we get past the notion that "the only good snake is a dead snake" and how the media seems to be doing its best to drive our success in educating the public backwards. 

For the record, my oppinion on the topic is that the dog is a dog, it didnt know any better, it should have been trained better, but the owners probably didnt anticipate a tiger snake appearing in the back yard. i believe that all dog owners should train their dogs to alert, not to kill the native wildlife. also that in this particular incident, although they were trying their bloody hardest to make it sound like the snake was being threatening, it was passing through and could have been dealt with properly... by the diligent parents supervising their kids, or at least close enough to respond if the kids are freaking out.


----------



## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

wow...guys..gals.. "****e happens"....lucky the kids werent hurt..lucky the dog didnt get bit.. shame the snake was there and got killed.. ..end of story..


----------



## PiG.E.Styles (Mar 14, 2010)

no the snake doesn't look like a killer. it is quite dead but the dog doesn't look like a killer either i didn't see this news article but it seems outlandish , and yet another attempt to make staffies seem like dangerous dogs. i don't care if people like snakes, or dogs, or cats, toads, rabbits or mountain goats as far as im concerned, a domesticated animal is as good as its owner. if your dog bites a kid, mauls someone or unfortunately kills someone then why hold the animal responsible. a dog, snake, mountain goat, or even king kong doesn't attack for no good reason there has to be somewhere the line is drawn and people have to be held responsible for the actions of their pets and not the animal themselves.


----------

