# My experiences with DPS



## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

Greetings all,

Well it appears that most reptile keepers these days know all about DPS, but it seems few have dealt with it personally. Those that have seem to keep quite about it, possibly to avoid criticism from their peers. Anyway, i have dealt with DPS with my own diamonds several times now and have decided to share my experiences.

Firstly my background with diamonds. I started keeping diamonds back in 1987 when i was 12. I live in the Illawarra area (south coast of NSW) where diamonds occur. I started off with wild diamonds, catching and releasing lots of diamonds over the years for breeding (before the 1997 amnesty), many of which became longterm captives and beloved pets. They were housed in large aviaries that faced north and received sun from sunrise until about 1-2pm, and then again in the late afternoon for an hour. All diamonds were exposed to weather conditions typical for the area from which they were collected (cool nights throughout most of the year and cold winters with temps dropping to 5'c) and all diamonds basked almost everyday of the year, even during very cold winter conditions. Aviaires are covered with shadecloth to keep them cooler and have a small 'window' cut out to allow basking in full sunlight. Hide boxes were insulated with styrofoam sheets to battle temperature extremes.

I first noticed DPS in one wildcaught female which i had had for 11 years. She suddenly became very flabby and after laying her 5th clutch for me she would never put her weight back on no matter how large the meals or the frequency of meals. After about 6 months she suffered broken bones. Her ribs were broken in several places and her spine was broken. She suffered from lack of co-ordination and had difficulty feeding. When food was seized she would immediately let go and thrash around. She would continually seize the food but then have to let go, followed by more thrashing. I put this down to brittle jawbones becoming very sensitive, and indeed shortly after her jawbones did break. It got the point that she could no longer climb or even move so she was put down. This female spent every day of her life outdoors, being exposed to full sunlight.

Within the same year i lost several more, all of which had very similar symptoms. Flabby muscles, broken ribs, jaws and spines,lack of co-ordination, inability to seize and consume prey, fits of thrashing around during feeding , falling from branches, gums turning black, swollen cloacas, flaccid stomach and intestines, unable to move except for their tongue and head. All these individuals were 7-8 years old.

Okay, from my experiences these are my beliefs about DPS as well as my recommendations. I have no scientific evidence to back any of this up, just what i believe.

* DPS usually affects females after laying eggs. If a female doesnt put weight back on after egglaying then there's a good chance DPS has set in.

* DPS progresses very slowly. A diamond can live with it for over 14 months. Because DPS progresses slowly, a diamond wont usually die from DPS, what ultimately kills the diamond is starvation from being unable to consume food.

* No amount of UV light will save diamonds from DPS, nor will it reverse the symptoms, however cold nights will slow down DPS considerably.

* DPS affects diamonds from the age of 6 years and onwards. A diamond that lives past 6 years of age without showing signs of DPS has not been saved from getting DPS.

* Provide heat until 12-1pm and then nothing until the following morning. For indoor enclosures, instead of having a warm end and a cold end, provide an enclosure that is cool overall, with one small hotspot which stays around 28-29'c. Diamonds really need to be able to escape the heat. They usually bask until 10.30am and then retreat to a cool area where they will coil tightly to conserve body heat. Anyone who has walked into a rainforest knows how cool they are under the canopy. Diamonds live under a rainforest canopy and can bury under damp leaflitter, retreat into huge hollows and rock crevices to escape the summer heat.

-ST


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## spilota_variegata (Oct 6, 2007)

Never had a diamond, but thanks for the info. Looks like you've done a bit of research and have had experience fist hand


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## Craig2 (Oct 6, 2007)

looks like a good sticky topic to me maybe in herp help


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## FAY (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your experiences Nick....
Like they said in Reptiles Australia magazine..on road testing pythons.
Diamonds are the least hardy.


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## dickyknee (Oct 6, 2007)

Cheers for that Serpentongue ...
Are you using UV lighting with your young ones in doors ?....

I have only ever seen the one die from it ( was my brothers ) very similar symptoms to what you described , it died during a fit though .


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

dickyknee said:


> Are you using UV lighting with your young ones in doors ?....
> 
> .


 
No, my young diamonds are in tubs with a heat mat under half the tub. I turn the heat mat off when i get home from work around 4pm.


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## JasonL (Oct 6, 2007)

Newbies take note of what Nick has written, as there is so much BS floating around about DPS, the few people that have been keeping Diamonds for many years will tell you the same thing. Enclosure design needs a major re-think if you plan on keeping long term diamonds.


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## steve6610 (Oct 6, 2007)

thanks for that info nick, as you know i have a port mac with what you have advised me might be DPS, she is going onto 6 years old now and has layed 2 clutches of eggs, she wasn't put with a male this season, 

after she layed last season i noticed she started shaking when picked up, she ate fine, and everything else was normal, 

12 months on and she still shakes, she feeds normally, BUT she hasn't put her weight back on, she also sheds a lot more then normal, so at this stage i'm watching her very closely, if she goes down hill any further then she is now, i will ethenase her, she has been steady for the last 12 months, i had always put it down to possible the over use of TOD, ( i had an outbreak of mite, she was one of a few adults that had them, still trying to work out where they came from,) but she hasn't recovered, 

i just want to say a big thanks to nick for taking the time to reply to my pm a few weeks ago when i asked for his help, 

so at this stage i am watching her to see what happens, as she is one of our first snakes and our fav we are going to give her every chance to recover, but for the same reason i won't let her suffer, :cry:

it also goes to show that it's possible for natural intergrades to suffer from DPS, 

she was kept under the same conditions as i keep most of my adult coastals, no heat during summer, and a hot rock in winter, no uv lights.............

my ebony in her good days....................


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## ace#74 (Oct 6, 2007)

would diamond carpet hybrids have this problem or is it just the pure diamonds


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## cris (Oct 6, 2007)

So in a nutshell it is simply caused by being stuck in high temperatures that are too high?


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

Ace, i've been told by one of the most respected and experienced python breeders in the world that diamonds, intergrades, coastals and diamond/coastal hybrids are all susceptible to DPS.


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## jay76 (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks for the info


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## ace#74 (Oct 6, 2007)

diamonds, coastals and port mac carpets all live on the east cost of oz do that mean anything


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

cris said:


> So in a nutshell it is simply caused by being stuck in high temperatures that are too high?


 
You could say that. It all comes down to temps. I dont believe that overfeeding has anything to do with DPS.

Diamonds can handle higher temps of around 35'c if they really have to, but only for short periods. They need to move off to cooler areas that are 25'c and under whenever they choose, and for as long as they please. These cool areas must always be available to them.

I always recommend temps of 27-28'c at the hotspot for diamonds being housed indoors because a diamonds body can function perfectly at these temps. There is no real need to keep them warmer than this.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

ace#74 said:


> diamonds, coastals and port mac carpets all live on the east cost of oz do that mean anything


 
Yeah, most likely. But i think if you kept any snake at temps that are higher than it's adapted to over a long period, it will go downhill eventually.


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## JasonL (Oct 6, 2007)

Have your diamonds got access to underground cold area's Nick? like a buried tub.


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## ace#74 (Oct 6, 2007)

would humidity play apart in it as well


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

ponybug said:


> i noticed she started shaking when picked up


 
Shaking! This is one symptom i forgot to add. Shaking or tremors are a common symptom of DPS, but is not always present in all cases. Tremors most often occur when diamonds get excited during feeding time when they are poised to strike at food. Tremors can be easily seen at this time. Also when holding the affected snake you can feel a slight tremor in it's body.


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## Miss B (Oct 6, 2007)

Interesting thread serpenttongue, thanks for sharing.



ponybug said:


> after she layed last season


 
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65225


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Oct 6, 2007)

thanks nice good read and some good info there
thanks


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

JasonL said:


> Have your diamonds got access to underground cold area's Nick? like a buried tub.


 
No, unfortunately they are all very stubborn and no matter what i do they still favour their high hides, so i have to insulate them. I do have some insulated hide boxes on the ground that are always in the shade, but these are only used by the snakes on very hot days.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

ace#74 said:


> would humidity play apart in it as well


 
No i wouldn't think so, humidity would only lead to skin infections.


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## ace#74 (Oct 6, 2007)

is this deases only present in captive animals


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

ace#74 said:


> is this deases only present in captive animals


 
I certainly hope so. I have heard of wild diamonds being collected and having DPS, but these particular individuals may have been escaped/released captives.


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## Sdaji (Oct 6, 2007)

Great to see some decent information about Diamond Python Syndrome, even for someone like me with almost no interest in Diamonds. Most of what is said about it is complete garbage, and usually reported by people who have been keeping them with "great results" after anything from between one month and a year or two.

Mainly on behalf of Diamond keepers, but also from myself: Thanks!


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## Wild~Touch (Oct 6, 2007)

Your explanation makes a lot of sense, thanks Nick


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## serpenttongue (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks Sdaji and Bredlislave!


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## Dan19 (Oct 6, 2007)

in my tank for my diamond coastals there is a place about 27-30 degrees sometimes and then a cold spot about 21-24 is this alrite they are only babies and i dont wont them to get DPS ??
thanks this is good info you have


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## dazza74 (Oct 6, 2007)

that is fantastic to know as i keep 1 diamond.she has been great for me for 3 years as in behavior never bitten but has not eaten in 4 and half months should i be concerned .
thanks serpenttongue


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## krusty (Oct 6, 2007)

i second that,it was a great read and once again thank you.




Sdaji said:


> Great to see some decent information about Diamond Python Syndrome, even for someone like me with almost no interest in Diamonds. Most of what is said about it is complete garbage, and usually reported by people who have been keeping them with "great results" after anything from between one month and a year or two.
> 
> Mainly on behalf of Diamond keepers, but also from myself: Thanks!


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## GrumpyTheSnake (Oct 6, 2007)

awesome information!! 

Hey Mods.... definitely need to put this as a sticky!!


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## IMSNAKEY (Oct 7, 2007)

thats useful info. can anything be done after they get DPS can it be cured or what?


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## richardsc (Oct 7, 2007)

are u saying it hasnt affected your males,and that your avairy set ups are to warm,its a shame they are susceptable to it,such a beautiful python,i never knew coastals suffered from it,i assumed intergrades would though,thanks for your info serp


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## prealongus (Oct 7, 2007)

An interesting topic and some useful information there. What seems strange to me is that those pythons were aviary kept in the diamonds natural lociality and still developed DPS. It makes me wonder whether this condition exists in the wild. If it doesn't what made these pythons DPS victims. I would of thought that diamonds kept outdoors in their natural locality would behave (thermally) much like their wild counterparts. Thanks for sharing, by the way dont read this as me having a go at ya.


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## FAY (Oct 7, 2007)

Like ST said...you will find them in the warm months in cool rainforests poss under leaf litter where they can keep nice and cool. Almost impossible to replicate in any captive situation.

I know our diamonds out in the aviary, on the coldest, wettest day in the middle of winter they are out up on the basking platform. They just seem to love it!


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## dickyknee (Oct 7, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> No, my young diamonds are in tubs with a heat mat under half the tub. I turn the heat mat off when i get home from work around 4pm.




Mine are in a small cage for now ,only with a heat mat , it goes off at around 6pm ......as it gets warmer i will turn it off a bit earlier , hot spot gets to around 29 , cool end does not go over 24 and drops well below over night .....
it does have a light but only a day light cycle not uv .

Thanks again mate.


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## Aslan (Oct 7, 2007)

*ST* - Thankyou for a fantastic thread - I have found time and time again that the information that I find to be more helpful and reliable is from those that care strongly about their animals and pay particular attention without ever having a 'scientific basis' for their findings - merely their ongoing personal observations...

...with the symptoms of brittle bones etc in mind do you think that DPS could have some sort of link to a calcium deficiency or inability to absorb it...?


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## dickyknee (Oct 7, 2007)

Aslan said:


> *ST* - Thankyou for a fantastic thread - I have found time and time again that the information that I find to be more helpful and reliable is from those that care strongly about their animals and pay particular attention without ever having a 'scientific basis' for their findings - merely their observations...
> 
> ...with the symptoms of brittle bones etc in mind do you think that DPS could have some sort of link to a calcium deficiency or inability to absorb it...?



You have a very good point there Alsan ,I would take advice from ST and a few others i know are serious diamond keepers over any scientific info .....you cant beat hands on experience for good reliable info ..


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 7, 2007)

Great thread, and important because of the long history ST has with diamonds. Definitely something worth more scientific work... As far as Ponybug's snake is concerned, it may well be related to ToD spraying, central nervous systen damage resulting from exposure to natural and synthetic pyrethrins has been documented in snakes. Great caution should be exercised whenever they are used.

Jamie.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 7, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> .......
> * No amount of UV light will save diamonds from DPS, nor will it reverse the symptoms, however cold nights will slow down DPS considerably.
> 
> * DPS affects diamonds from the age of 6 years and onwards. A diamond that lives past 6 years of age without showing signs of DPS has not been saved from getting DPS.
> ...




Where you said UV won't reverse the symptoms, are you saying that there is no cure for them at all? 

We have a diamond python at the wildlife park who is deformed in the back half of her body. Do you reckon this could be possibly from DPS?

This is a great thread. I am on a 2 year wait list for a pair of Gosford Diamonds. So I want to learn everything now. I am copying a lot of this information into WORD to keep as reference, so I hope you are right


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## mysnakesau (Oct 7, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> No, unfortunately they are all very stubborn and no matter what i do they still favour their high hides, so i have to insulate them. I do have some insulated hide boxes on the ground that are always in the shade, but these are only used by the snakes on very hot days.



Sorry I am taking up more space...

When you say its unfortunate that they favour their high hides, surely they would know what's best for them. Or do you really need to protect them from themselves?

The comment about the calcium deficiency - I didn't quite understand....is it suggested that DPS causes calcium deficiency ir calcium deficiency can lead to DPS?

I noticed our local wildlife park dusts their food with calcium powder just prior to offering it to their pythons.


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## cris (Oct 7, 2007)

The thing is they live in foresty areas not in avairies, while an avairy is better than a small box its still no match for unrestricted movement.

The snakes would favour the high hides because they would feel safer there, to them they would rather be warm for a bit than put themselves in a far more vunerable place.

Is it possible a common virus or something may also play a role?


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

richardsc said:


> are u saying it hasnt affected your males,and that your avairy set ups are to warm,its a shame they are susceptable to it,such a beautiful python,i never knew coastals suffered from it,i assumed intergrades would though,thanks for your info serp


 
No, it definately has affected males and i've lost males to DPS.

I'd like to think that my aviaires are suitable enough. I've never felt that they get too warm but one problem with my aviaries is that they have colorbond sheeted roofs. This tends to hold heat in, whereas a roof made of chicken wire will allow heat to escape.

But still, you'd think that any reptile would have evolved to handle the temperature extremes typical of the area they live in. Who knows....


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

mysnakesau said:


> Where you said UV won't reverse the symptoms, are you saying that there is no cure for them at all?


 
Yes, UV light hasn't helped any of my snakes (remember mine bask in full sunlight daily). As far as i'm aware nothing will cure a diamond with DPS, and i dont see how you could cure a snake with internal organ problems, brittle bones and flabby muscles. Prevention is better than cure.




mysnakesau said:


> We have a diamond python at the wildlife park who is deformed in the back half of her body. Do you reckon this could be possibly from DPS?


 
Probably not. It would be showing the other symptoms of DPS. It was probably injured at some point.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

mysnakesau said:


> When you say its unfortunate that they favour their high hides, surely they would know what's best for them. Or do you really need to protect them from themselves?
> 
> The comment about the calcium deficiency - I didn't quite understand....is it suggested that DPS causes calcium deficiency ir calcium deficiency can lead to DPS?


 
Yeah, you'd think they know whats best for them and in the wild i'd say they do. I can only speak for my diamonds, but yes....they do need saving from themselves.

I'd say it would calcium deficiency leading to DPS.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

cris said:


> The snakes would favour the high hides because they would feel safer there, to them they would rather be warm for a bit than put themselves in a far more vunerable place.


 
Yes, that's exactly what i believe. Plus diamonds are extremely arboreal anyway.



cris said:


> Is it possible a common virus or something may also play a role?


 
I have been told that DPS may be caused by a virus that only affects diamonds. I dont think so, though.


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## whatsup (Oct 7, 2007)

ST , do you reckon calcium additives may help at all with their bones? liqiud calcium injected into their feed maybe.

cheers dave


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

Whatsup, i really dont know. One would think that if a diamond has access to unfiltered sunlight, cool evenings and a proper winter cooling then calcium additives wouldn't be necessary. Someone really needs to do some work on that to see what the outcome is.


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## GSXR_Boy (Oct 7, 2007)

Any idea on why it only affects snakes 6 and older??
Had any die younger?


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## serpenttongue (Oct 7, 2007)

GSXR_Boy said:


> Any idea on why it only affects snakes 6 and older??
> Had any die younger?


 
None of my diamonds have had DPS at an age younger than 7 years. 6 seems to be the age that diamonds will come down with DPS, possibly because they have stopped growing by this time, or at least slowed down considerably in growth. It is also possible that DPS can affect a diamond at a very early age but doesnt show itself until several years later when the snakes growth slows down. So how a herper keeps their diamonds while they're young may have a great deal to do with whether or not the snake gets DPS when it's older. This is all speculation though.

Newbies seem to think that if their diamond makes it to 6 years of age without getting DPS then their snake is safe and wont get DPS at all, but that is wrong. Some diamonds can make it to a decade before showing signs of DPS.


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## cockney red (Oct 7, 2007)

*Top info ST on a very worrying subject for all us DP keepers.*


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## Jason_Hood (Oct 8, 2007)

Has anybody had blood work done to check the chemistry and calcium levels of their diamonds at different ages?? I think this would be a great idea but a bit costly. Maybe somewhere like a nature center that can absorb the cost or a bigger breeder who has lots of vet work done. If it is a issue with calcium absorbtion or calcium blockage it should show in the testing. Brittle bones and some of the other symptoms sound like calcium issues.

Can't fix the problem until you ID and like many others on here they are on my list of future animals so I am very interested in all of this.

Jason


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## tempest (Oct 8, 2007)

ST thank you for taking the time to write about your observations and answer all the questions that have been asked. It was falling in love with a Diamond Python many years ago what drew me to keeping herps, they are my favourite snake without a doubt. With so little actually known about DPS it is beneficial to read of the symptoms and thoughts about it from someone who is knowledgeable from years of keeping Diamonds. Your experiences have given us Diamond keepers a lot to think about and I really hope that the only experience I have with it will be through reading about it.... here's hoping anyway. Thanks again ST!


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 8, 2007)

ST as someone who has diamonds it is great to have some more knowledge under my belt! I am so in love with diamonds and would have 100 of them if I could. I was always wanting more info on DPS and as you've said there is alot of "other" info out there not quite from an experienced point of view so thank you for sharing as it's good to know how it can be reasonably prevented.
I'm always learning new things and wanting more knowledge as I've never proclaimed to be an expert on anything, I just offer my advice on the things I do know.

Cheers,
Mell


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## bowks (Dec 18, 2007)

*Dps*

I have a 7 yr old diamond python who doesn't seem to have put on much weight for the last two years. She didn't eat that well last year, and this year has gone off her tucker completely (had only one meal 4 months ago). She will strike if annoyed eg by a rat being bounced around her cage and will constrict but will not eat. I took her to the vet yesterday who diagnosed DPS and dehydration. He suggested soaking her for 6-8 hrs in a tub of water, and leaving her in an airconditioned room for a week. 

I live in the tropics (Darwin) and we had built in the front verandah for the snakes and other animals about 2 years ago. The Childrens Python thrived but I think at about the time we moved the DP out of the house (air conditioned lounge) he started losing his appetite. 

I can keep him in the house which the vet suggested, but I'm wondering what his chances are. The vet suggested that at the end of this week he should be eating again. I have only started researching DPS and am devastated to hear how poor the prognosis is.
:cry:


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## Moreliaman (Dec 18, 2007)

Thats some excellent observations, likewise, thanks for sharing that valuable information with us serpent.
I know allot of herpers over here keep diamonds & other species of herps in excessive temperatures with the common misconception that everywhere in australia is always hot.


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## steve6610 (Dec 18, 2007)

bowks said:


> I can keep him in the house which the vet suggested, but I'm wondering what his chances are. The vet suggested that at the end of this week he should be eating again. I have only started researching DPS and am devastated to hear how poor the prognosis is.
> :cry:



from talking to serpenttongue about this issue i'm sad to say the chances are almost nil, 

i'm in the same place now, i think my port mac has it and i'm just waiting until it's 100% certain before doing the right thing for her...


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## salebrosus (Dec 18, 2007)

My last visit with ST he showed me one of his animals who has it and he had also filmed what the animal was like during feeding. As an owner of three Diamonds it is terrifying to think of what may become of them. It really is heartbreaking to witness DPS.

Simone.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Dec 18, 2007)

these symptoms you talk about in DPS i once experianced with a female coastel carpet,
she developed brittle bones and her spine broke
and it was in the year following a birth to a clutch


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## rexs1 (Dec 18, 2007)

That's the best article I've read on D.P.S. serpentongue. I haven't kept diamonds now for about 3-4 yrs. My oldest female was 10yrs old when I sold her. She was bred for the first time at five yrs then another 2 clutches after that. The new owner bred her the following year and a year later she died. She lived for a good age for a diamond. She lived at Atherton N. Qld for 5yrs then in a Sth Qld coastal area. She was housed inside and heating was only a small heat pad. Many years ago when captive kept diamonds were commonly caught from the wild this D.P.S. was a very frequent problem. Now I think with captive bred animals easily sourced this disease is much less seen in collections.


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## Shadowmist (Dec 20, 2007)

Excellent document. Concise and t the point. Certainly something that should be imade as a Sticky thread on the hints/help list


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## Vala (Dec 20, 2007)

So how is DPS prevented?

Great thread BTW, extremely useful


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## Shadowmist (Dec 21, 2007)

I wonder if Vala has a point. For those people who have kept Diamonds for some time, and have not experienced any DPS, What are they doing.

Perhaps there is a common thread that might tie all these snakes that have not been affected (yet). One of the main problem that I see is that this seems to be a slow onset. The ‘damage’ may have been done months or years ago, and only now it becomes apparent.

A question to those who like to keep records on the snakes climate. Does anyone record and keep temperature logs, etc?


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## jamey (Dec 22, 2007)

*Dps*

Thanks ST.Very informative.Great of someone with your experience with diamonds to give a firsthand account of this problem.A little disheartining to hear it happening to animals kept outside in natural diamond habitat,and so close to natural conditions.
Jamey


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## scout (Dec 22, 2007)

I purchased a 4yr old diamond as my first snake a few years ago. now I dont know if the seller knew it had DPS or not, but 6mths after purchasing it, it stopped feeding properly. Another 6mths of fusssing with feeds and she stopped feedin all together. After a lot of angst i took her to the vet. I was so shocked to see her xray. Most of her ribs were broken, there were a lot of her ribs gone,where they had broken over time and been re-absorbed into her body. The poor thing was breaking bones every time we fed or handled her. I did the best thing for her and ended her suffering. This distressed me so much that i took my carpet to be checked as well, a 2yr old purchased from the same person. I wasnt prepared for the findings, he too was suffering the same thing, though he had no broken or missing bones the xray showed the softening of the bones. I gave him a good fighting chance by injecting all his feed with calcium, but because snakes metabolism is so slow it never improved. After 12mths of vet bills he finally stopped feeding right. So I had to end it for him as well. Now the vet wouldnt say my carpet caught it off my diamond, but IMO there has to be a link there somewhere. they were different ages and breeders(so I was told) and different sub species. The only link was being housed together. I was very diligent with hygene and husbandry measures consulting with the vet with all aspects.
I now make sure I only purchase of reputable breeders, and i get all my snakes xrayed after purchasing. I may be paranoid but the ending of a pets life is too hard. All my animals from feeding rats and mice to my dog and horses get the best of feed and care.


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## Joshua VW (Dec 29, 2007)

Well there goes my dream of owning a Diamond Python.
Although people say that they get sunlight for their snakes, does anyone also use a UV as an extra just in case sort of thing?
I don't know anything about DPS so I could be all wrong but if you give a UV light and sunlight and extra calcium stuff in the rats and you give them a big cage and lots of cool and cold spots do you think they would make it?
Has anyone had a Diamond that didn't get DPS? Ifso, what did you do?


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## Vala (Dec 29, 2007)

My diamonds both have UV lights and both get unfiltered natural sunlight. I also have this 'reptical' thing i've been thinking of putting on the mice, but I don't know if i should. 
Not ALL diamonds get DPS though. To my knowledge it isn't extremely common. But I'm not sure how to exactly prevent it though


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## zard (Dec 29, 2007)

alot of fantastic and interesting info there, thankyou!

i wonder if when housing diamonds outside whether allowing a thick vine to cover the top of the enclosure (re the colorbond holding heat) or growing dense trees and having a canopy over the enclosure therefore giving more of a rainforest speckled light type scenerio would lower temps sufficiently while still allowing natural sunlight.


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## Vala (Dec 29, 2007)

I have this ReptiCal stuff I used to dust crickets with when I had beardies. Does anyone know if that can be used to dust on rats or something for diamonds?


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## Helikaon (Dec 29, 2007)

Vala said:


> I have this ReptiCal stuff I used to dust crickets with when I had beardies. Does anyone know if that can be used to dust on rats or something for diamonds?


 

i doutb it has anythign to do with the amount of calcium that is being absorbed i rather think that it is an over production of certain genetic strustures whihc produce enzymes capable of breaking down the bone matrix technically it is like a cancer but not replication of cells rather enzymes. and in a reptile there is a good chance that this would become a chronic issue as enzymes work on optimal temps therfore over heating may increase the likely hood of this, i know that most cases of thsi in humans are treated with an artificial inhibitor, the only flaw in this theory is that it would mean it was genetic, and i would assume would be seen in a lot more cases.


lets say that it may be an overproduction of the same enzyme that allows your lizard to extract calcium from its bones when the blood calcium level becoem low. but instead of being in control in these snakes it is out of control. hence while cooling would slow it down

could very well be hormonal as well. seems liek we are lacking much needed research


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## dailyskin (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm sorry to revive such an old thread, but I was directed to it by JessB, and ST's observations are so invaluable!

I am dreaming of owning a Diamond, and rather than putting me off, this thread has made me more determined to get one.

I have spent the morning taking notes, hoping to design the perfect outdoor enclosure one day (will spend a year or so researching). I like the idea or a vine/climber covering over the top and 'hot afternoon' side of the avairy, to allow for insulation but a little natural dappled sunlight.

Would I be correct in saying:
If I provide an outdoor enclosure, with natural sunlight until noon, a warm spot (maybe heat pad) during the mornings in winter, and cool nights (in summer, perhaps assisted by a fan or even old-fashioned 'water-drip meat safe/fridge' type system), plus cool refuges during the day in summer, I would be going pretty well?


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## serpenttongue (Jan 10, 2008)

Dailyskin, what you need is an enclosure that gets sun from sunrise until about 12pm. Then the enclosure should be in the shade for the rest of the day. The diamonds will bask for an hour or so each morning and then move off to a cool area and coil tightly to conserve body heat. They usually dont need heating again until the following morning, so afternoon heat isn't absolutely necessary. However, if they are gravid or have had a big feed they will take advantage of afternoon heat. The enclosure should have solid sides that will act as windbreaks and a wire roof to prevent a build-up of heat. It is an excellent idea to have a vine-like plant growing over the roof to keep things cool inside. Hide boxes should be insulated with styrofoam sheets and it may be wise to dig a hole into the ground to create an underground hide where temps will be cooler.

Perhaps you can build an avairy on wheels so you can just wheel them into the sun in the morning and then wheel them into a shaded, cool area for the rest of the day.


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## dailyskin (Jan 11, 2008)

THe only thing I'm worried about, I guess, are the odd REALLY hot days and nights (eg yesterday was 42, last night's low was 27) we get sometimes - 
I'm thinking I could bring him inside if need be, or what do you think about the idea of creating a sort of Coolgardie Safe ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolgardie_safe ) to keep the hides cool? Would that sort of work like their natural rainforrest?


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## jessb (Jan 11, 2008)

Most wild Diamonds would be exposed to those sort of temps occasionally anyway wouldn't they? I know the temps we get here on the Northern Beaches (loads of wild Diamonds) get to those extremes for a couple of days during the hottest part of the summer. If they can cope in the wild, I imagine they wold be fine as long as they have access to cool areas. 

Just my (very) uninformed opinion!


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## Evoker (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanx for the great text! Greetings from Poland!


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## sweetangel (Mar 27, 2008)

As an owner of a new baby diamond i find that this thread is very useful.
All i want is the best for my new little friend and for him to live a long and healthy life. because of this article i am going to make my little snakey and outdoor enclosure i only hope that all the trouble will pay off and that no DPS will come to be.
thanx or your wonderful article.


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## EmmaMary (Jun 6, 2008)

I want to get a diamond... if i made an enclosure that would be exceptionally well ventilated, and only one or two hotspots (like a heatmat under a hide, or a heatrock or a lamp over a branch) would that be suitable? i live in brisbane, it's not cold but not overly hot either... i wouldn't breed him/her, and he/she'd be kept in a room with pleanty of natural light so would it be likely that he/she'd get DPS?


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## wood_nymph (Jun 7, 2008)

for those of us housing inside what kind of UV tube or bulb would you recomend, a high or mid range UVB output or something more like the repti-glo 2.0 rainforest variety? just to check i understand your recomendations correctly you recomend no heating what so ever at night? does this apply to diamonds under 2 years not being cooled?


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## serpenttongue (Jun 8, 2008)

Wood Nymph, i dont recommend UV tubes at all. I dont believe that diamonds need exposure to UV light,

No night heat supplied to diamonds unless they are digesting a large meal (1 or 2 nights heating to help digest the meal quicker). This also applies to juveniles.

If you dont provide night heat to babies during winter then thats as good as cooling them down, which i do recommend.


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