# Boyds Forest Dragon Information Thread



## Southside Morelia (Oct 28, 2010)

Hi Guys,
I thought it would be a great idea that we have a sticky thread where anyone wanting information on the elusive _*Hypsilurus boydii *_can view and ask questions and anyone who can contribute constructive information through their own experience, can post and share their experiences that we all can learn from. 
This way we can work together to build our own informative data base, which will evolve into a care sheet that all can view and gain info from in future, as these lovely critters are becoming more popular than ever, due to their appeal and an affordable price nowadays
Feel free to ask questions and post pics as this is a joint venture and there are many different and successful ways to keep them providing the minimal husbandry requirements are kept _*and adhered too.

*_I have kept and bred Boyds and have essentially had to learn through my own experience and through talking with people who also have kept them, because there is no real info available as many newcomers to the breed experience, which I did myself.Just a bit about Boyds before we start the thread.

You MUST have a Class 2 License to keep Boyds. Reason: They are not really for novice keepers as they do have some special requirements.
They are native to the tropical rainforest region of Nth East Queensland, so their enclosure should mimic that climate for them to thrive in captivity IF you live in the Southern colder states.
They prefer vertical branches to rest on, so a taller rather than wider enclosure is recommended.
They are insectivorous, meaning they prey on insects. (some claim they eat fruit, but I could never get my colony to do so).
They are not Bearded Dragons and will NOT sit on your lap or shoulder for extended periods. I have had one male that was an exception and used to "enjoy" a rub under the dewlap (flap of skin under jaw) and tolerated some handling, more later in the thread.
Dominate males can tend to be very domineering/territorial and bully other males and even females when at breeding age.
They can suffer from MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease) IF they are not supplied with UV lighting or vitamin D. I have not experienced this through keeping to _*"basic husbandry requirements"*_ as mentioned, which is good UVA & UVB lighting, plus periodic dusting of the food item with calcium powder. I also dusted with vitamin powder once a month as well. More later on food and how to present it.
Varied food items is always good as it keeps their appetite healthy. LIVE prey that wiggles and moves is the only way to go as this excites the Boyds Forest Dragon. I have never fed dead prey and am interested to hear if anyone has. Cockroaches, crickets, silk worms, earthworms, moths, meal worms (*for older Boyds ONLY*) are all eaten readily. I do feed some animals by hand and they enjoy it. more later on feeding methods.

Enough said now, ask away guys and we can start to build the data base on how to keep one animal correctly, to breeding, incubation of eggs and raising bubs to adulthood, lets cover it all!


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## snakeluvver (Oct 28, 2010)

THANKS I've been needing this info a lot, I was thinking of getting one but didn't know their requirements!


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## Jungle_Freak (Oct 28, 2010)

Some very good info there Scott


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## Damiieen (Oct 28, 2010)

Wow great info I would love to own a boyd in further years. We need more people like this and there should be a forum specially for caresheets. Cheers


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## emma_jane (Oct 28, 2010)

That's amazing info, thank you!!
and gorgeous photos


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## Mr.James (Oct 28, 2010)

Great work Scott, I will add some of my experiences & care info to this thread over the weekend.


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## Flaviruthless (Oct 28, 2010)

Thank you Scott, I was looking at getting a few next year and this is great. With regards to enclosure requirements, would would be your suggestion for a group of 3? Is it wise to keep 1 male and 1 female together or is it better to keep 2 females and 1 male in the same enclosure? How long do they live for? For keepers like myself, hoping to maybe start out with some Boyds in the near future, it's great to get some tips and essential info from experienced keepers!


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## giggle (Oct 28, 2010)

>> You MUST have a Class 2 License to keep Boyds. Reason: They are not really for novice keepers as they do have some special requirements.

I was under the impression here in QLD it only requires a class 1 license.

Great that there is a dedicated thread now  Hopefully someone will be able to ad a little more about the ins and outs of actual care and living with a Boyds


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## James..94 (Oct 29, 2010)

Great info Scott
*Mods *can this be made a sticky as it has great info.


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 29, 2010)

Ok, lets kick it off as Rahni has asked about enclosures.
This is how I built my Boyds enclosure, step by step. I have a syatem wherby it has automatic misting and live plants growing under lights, so drainage is essential. I wil talk about this later.
1st pic: the shell of the enclosure. 2nd pic: completed enclosure (built by Brett AKA Dickynee) 3rd pic: Is lining the base of the enclosure with a waterproof lining to prevent the melamine from swelling and rotting. We then add large pebbles which is the base and forst stage of a good drainage system. 4th pic: After the large pebbles are in, flyscreen is placed over the top. 5th pic: Small pebbles are now added the flyscreen prevents them from falling through and keeps the drain clear for water to flow through and not block the drain.


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 29, 2010)

Now we add the substrate.
1st pic: Add substrate and background:
I prefer to use coir blocks re hydrated. This is a natural coconut husk product that can be purchased from any gardening store even Big W.
IMPORTANT...MAKE SURE YOU BUY THE COIR BLOCKS WITHOUT FERTILISER!!!!
Break the block up in a bucket and add water and watch it grow.
The reason we buy the fertiliser free stuff, is because we don't want bacteria breeding in the substrate later and with fertiliser in the substrate this will help feed the nasties. The key to having a substrate in your enclosure free from the bad bacteria, is to flush it out regularly, that's why you need a good drainage system like the one I have showed you how to build. Water your plants and flush out the system...in turn you are creating a humid environment...guess what, that's what Boyds love and live in, in their natural habitat...
2nd pic: Some decorations, I made the trees myself more later if anyone asks... 3rd pic: add the waterfall. 4th pic: close up of my tree recreation plus the new tenants....5th pic: add some dried gum leaves to mimic the forest floor. Personally I have never seen a coir forest floor so the gum leaves make it look a bit more realistic, washed first but just in water...and thats it! 
Lighting and misting later....


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 29, 2010)

Finished pic again... plus a Boyd having a dip in the waterfall. The waterfall not only helped with keeping up humidity, it also was a great place for them to have a bath. 
IMPORTANT TIP: make sure if you have any vessel that contains enough water for them to take a dip, you clean it out regularly as they love to poop in it as well.  :lol:


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 29, 2010)

*Lighting & Heat: *(For Southern states ONLY referring to temp requirements) To overcome the dual problem of keeping a temperature that is similar to Boyds habitat which is approx 20 - 28C as they live in the rainforest UNDER the canopy, so it is cooler than the direct sunlight in the region.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Boyds don't bask like other dragons.....and supplying our little guys with UVA & UVB and subsequent vitamin D to prevent MBD and also keeping the plants alive through supplying them with artificial sunlight to promote growth, I prefer to use Mercury Vapour lamps. these lamps give Heat and beneficial lighting UVA & UVB all in one and I rate them over any other UV lamp in THIS set up only.
Other flouro lamps etc are better for other lizards but I found that the dual purpose of this lamp in this set up was the best. make sure that the lamp is external to the enclosure and IF misting will NOT get wet and more importantly your Boyds wont get burnt!!!
I have a wire mesh top on the enclosure so the heat will penetrate the enclosure PLUS the important UV rays will also.
IMPORTANT TIP: UV does NOT penetrate glass so it is of the utmost importance to have any UV lamp not diffused by glass or any other solid material like plastic or perspex.


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## porkosta (Oct 29, 2010)

Excellent Thread. Thanks heaps for the info.


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## Tit4n (Oct 29, 2010)

Hands down, these guys are covered through this thread thanks so much for sharing 

Admins should think about sticking this


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 29, 2010)

Nice comments guys, thanks and appreciated! 
The thread is about a accumulative effort to build a really informative information base for all to access for info when they need too, or just want to suss out IF Boyds are the right animal for them. NO info anywhere on the NET, lets change that so we can all learn together.

Plenty more info to come and some others input would be appreciated as we go through the steps of successful husbandry techniques.
Housing & Feeding next. 
BUT some MORE input on enclosures from others would be great first before we move on. 
Mine is ONLY an example of an enclosure....BUT we all cant afford or cannot make one like mine and that's cool!!!
The thread is NOT about showing the best, its about showing what we all can do to keep this fascinating animal! So don't feel intimidated as its NOT a competition and I would love to see how many smart herpers can improvise according to their budget and what materials they have in their possession. 
So other successful versions are a MUST to make this thread an informative data base for all to learn from.
i'll have a break until some more post their enclosures, big or small, ALL WELCOME, even if we can find faults as this is a learning curve....lets see them before we move on.


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 30, 2010)

No more pics.... 
Come on guys, with the amount of PM's and emails I have received, I know there are many who keep them. :lol:
Before we move on, here's a pic of the misting system if anyone is interested. I purchased this from the USA and have had it running for 5 years straight without a hiccup, although I have had to clean out the tiny hole in the spray nozzle once, as it had blocked due to a calcium build up through impurities in the water over time. 
1st pic shows the water vessel on the right which is the water the pumps extracts from and the drainage bucket on the left. The water is that brown colour because of the coir substrate. As I mentioned before I flush the whole substrate out once a week with a watering can, the plants love it and it will flush out any bacteria in the substrate.
This system is controlled by a timer see bottom right of 2nd pic, which can take up to 16 different programs. I have it misting 2 times a day in summer and once in winter for approx 5 minutes a time. I have mixed it up over the years where i'll just override the timer and have a downpour....the Boyds love it and just let it rain all over them...you can actually see them enjoy it...lol

IMPORTANT NOTE: You can easily mist by hand with a standard $3.00 spray bottle from Bunnings or in smaller enclosures IF the substrate is kept moist, the heat from whatever heat source you use, will create a humid environment as long as the substrate is moist.


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## giggle (Oct 31, 2010)

excellent information  beautiful set up


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## licky (Oct 31, 2010)

South side morelia= God of Boyd's knowledge.
If only more people would do this for other species, alot of begginers would have an easier time collect info.


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## Waterrat (Oct 31, 2010)

giggle said:


> I was under the impression here in QLD it only requires a class 1 license.


 
There is no class 1 or 2 in Qld. You need an endorsement on your basic Recreational Wildlife Licence (WIWL) to keep restricted reptiles (which does not include Boyds) but there is no 2 years waiting period like in NSW.

Well done Scott. Can you sum it up into 1 post and ask the mods to make it a sticky?


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## giggle (Oct 31, 2010)

licky said:


> South side morelia= God of Boyd's knowledge.
> If only more people would do this for other species, alot of begginers would have an easier time collect info.



Indeed  Then anytime someone wants info and hasnt bothered doing a search, they can just quote the link. 

If I could request information in here on growth rate and sexing? Best group composition (if any) and general boyds demeanor... as in do they enjoy each others company, do they move around a bit and have interesting quirks? Common health issues?

Big big big thanks to southside morelia


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2010)

Wow, that enclosure is amazing, thanks for sharing such great info!!


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 31, 2010)

licky said:


> South side morelia= God of Boyd's knowledge.


Thanks licky but hell NO!! Many more with far more knowledge than me, I would love for them to post.
*FEEDING:*

OK, lets move on with what to feed our Boyds.
Personally, I always like to vary the food item, as who would want to want the same food day in day out. Not does it add some variety it also IMO keeps them interested in their food, which in turn keeps them healthy.
As I mentioned in the first post, Boyds are insectivorous, meaning they prey on insects, but in the wild their diet may also include other items, some input from others on wild Boyds would be great!
I feed my colony on a rotation of wood roaches (woodies), meal worms, silk worms, crickets, earthworms and the occasional silkworm moth, which some eat and some couldnt be bothered to chase...
*IMPORTANT NOTE: *DO NOT feed meal worms to baby or juvenile Boyds as this "harder" bodied worm may cause compaction in little Boyds.
I have heard of people feeding fruit to Boyds but I have never seen mine eat any type of fruit offered.
Every other feed i like to dust the woodies or crickets in some calcium powder and also a dusting of vitamin powder every few weeks or so, just to keep them in top condition. See pics of calcium powder and vitamin powder I use, you dont need that brand this is what my store sells. MAKE SURE you read the instructions as you can overdo any supplement which will have the opposite affect that you are wanting, ie make your Boyds sick or even kill them through trying to care too much.
I feed a few of my colony by hand with tongs and some without which for me is a great buzz!
The other fickle and more shy animals, I use a "Bonsai" tree planter as the bowl and was shown this trick many years ago and it IS the ONLY way to contain prey insects 100%, but you have to paint a layer of Fluon OR Teflon paint around the rim still.
The reason this planter pot works so great is the design of the bowl, it has an inward curved rim so when the insects try crawling up the wall of the pot they have to walk upside down and just fall back into the bowl. This design plus the Fluon, there's no chance for escape. 
I hear people saying what about the crickets....well I have them covered, I always break off their hind legs and they jump anymore. Sounds cruel but they only last a few seconds once the Boyds see dinner in the bowl, they come jumping down from their tree perch....I mean literally jump off their perch and head for the bowl....classics to watch! :lol:
*IMPORTANT TIP: *Don't just throw your crickets in the enclosure, unless you want to be woken at night by chirping crickets in the loungroom, trust me I have learned through experience. I though it would be good exercise for the Boyds to stalk and chase them...BUT there always some that can evade the colony and they are the ones (males only i believe) that chirp and drive you and the Family crazy....I have had to totally dismantle older enclosures to catch the culprits.
I breed my own silk worms, mealies and earthworms. I have an earthworm farm kit I originally purchased from Flower Power, but they are now in Bunnings also, these are the best food item IMO as they are up there with the best nutritional value out of all the insects in the way of protein and other goodies and are the easiest to breed. Very underrated! I feed my earthworms on all the fruit & vegetable offcuts from our own kitchen, as well as I raid the local fruit & vegy market bin once a week, which I supplement my rats feed with, ALL FOR FREE! I still cant believe that they throw some of the stuff out, it is top quality fruit and veg and my animals all benefit from the variety and quality food items.
If anyone is interested on breeding of insects just ask.
1zst pic: Bonsai planter bowl, 2nd pic: Calcium and vitamin supplements.


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## Funkstaa (Oct 31, 2010)

Awsome thread Scott, just stumbled across it you've covered heaps! How do you breed your worms would love to give it ago as mine love the earthworms and sadly they are a treat whenever we go into town - living rural sucks : p
Will get some pics of my setup in the next day or so when I get a chance, still trying to get a background and nothing compared but maybe a good reference pic for some other newbie's like myself?


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## pythrulz (Nov 1, 2010)

Great info and research will be helpful information


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## Funkstaa (Nov 3, 2010)

ok here goes with the pics (nothing in comparison to Scott's, but definately room for improvement too) 1st pic front on view...I can't find a background that's a) big enough or b) that I like so completely open to suggestions  2cnd pic is side on, nice and busy so they feel secure - although I think I could do with a few more folage items 3rd pic is vitamins/calcium I use and 4th pic is one of the girls having some time with miss 6 - They seem more calm around her than myself I do wonder if it's a size thing or if they sence my nervousness I don't want to frighten them with the door open as these little cuties are fast!...Nothing funnier than watching them jump from the top of the branches to the floor when I fill up their woodies bowl : p A+ for personality!


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## Mr.James (Nov 4, 2010)

Great setup Funksta, just make sure your not using any potting mix in those pots. Put a few more thin vines in there, they'll love it! Nice waterfall too, where did you get it? & what are the dimensions?

I'm just uploading some of my photo's for the thread, will be posted in a few minutes.


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## Funkstaa (Nov 4, 2010)

Aw thanks Mr. Boyd it's nothing compared to you guys but it's just basic while I learn what they like...Going into town today so I'll grab some more vines - thanks for the tip it's really appreciated, there's no potting mix I washed it off all the live plants refilled with the substrate they seem to be doing ok so far...I got the waterfall by fluke at Dollars and Cents for $100 but I changed it to a stronger filter so the water went up stronger - they looove it (it has lights and can be plugged in to a stereo but I thought that was overkill unless I was trying to set the mood and play some Barry White bahaha)
Can't wait to see pics - always good to see more pics of what to aim for


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## Mr.James (Nov 4, 2010)




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## Mr.James (Nov 4, 2010)

The enclosure is still in the works, just need to install side drops & finish the backdrop. Hard to get a true to life photo, the photo in the above post is too bright (flash). This is more like it!


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## Southside Morelia (Nov 4, 2010)

James/Hannah, they are awesome enclosures, this is the stuff I was hoping to see... 
Both are high with plenty of vertical perches, they always progress as you get the bug to build and make it more lifelike, its like an addiction for me and setting up enclosures is half the fun of keeping herps! 
*KEEPING PLANTS:
*I have experimented and wasted a heap of cash over the years trying to find the most hardiest plants to keep in a viv of this type under lights and in a substrate NOT soil.....The best by far and last forever are FAKE plants... these days you can get some amazing looking fake plants, some expensive and some cheap if you know where to look. I find that those $2 bargain shops in Chinatown and suburbia have some great fake plants...Herp shops charge a bomb. 
I do have real plants as well as I like the idea of having natures air filters in a closed environment like these vivs and I have some plants that have been in there for years....mind you they don't grow that much and the best IMO are [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Spathiphyllum wallisi or the peace plant or peace lilly depending on where you buy it from. The big leaf green indoor plants do the best I have found, but these are the hardiest. I have spent plenty of money on Orchids, even to the point of joining an orchid site, yes hard to believe! No offense intended as I know a few passionate orchid lovers on this site who have helped me and I appreciate their input over the years...lol, all in the quest for the ultimate looking viv. Orchids didnt work to warm and didn't like the artificial UV lighting.

Learn from my mistakes and have a few liveys like the plants mentioned above and do the rest with fake plants and nice branches, save your cash.
*How to make a realistic tree trunk:*
We built Redfern Stadium and refurbished the neighboring Redfern Park as part of a face lift for the area and in that Park the oldest in Sydney, was the nursery for Morton Bay Fig trees some of the oldest in Australia and my inspiration for the trees I recreated as they are stunning to look at. I found some branches with bark on them and stripped them back to make them look like the buttress roots of a fig tree, then I actually cut some of the aerial roots off the real fig trees in the park and drilled little holes in my fake trunk and inserted them in..looks pretty cool and lifelike I reckon.
Just shows you we can do these things if we think about it and you don't need to spend cash doing it.
[/FONT]


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## NETTEDGURU (Nov 4, 2010)

Could I grab cage diemensions? and incubation temps?


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## Southside Morelia (Nov 4, 2010)

Funkstaa said:


> How do you breed your worms would love to give it ago as mine love the earthworms and sadly they are a treat whenever we go into town - living rural sucks : p


*BREEDING WORMS FOR BOYDS:*
Worms are easy to breed, earth worms my Fav are the easiest, get a worm farm from Bunnings and feed them fruit and vegy scraps, keep them moist and covered with a hemp cloth or potato sack and that is all there is too it! 
Mealies are not a worm per-cay, but the larvae stage of the darkling beetle and a little more time consuming.
Purchase some mealies from your pet shop, get some oat meal, oats, or similar, as a substrate, I also like to feed mine some hard veg like sweet potato, potato, cabbage etc veg that doesn't go mouldy, after a while they pupate and emerge as beetles. You can tell overtime and experience as they obviously get bigger but change colour slightly.
They then pupate and go hard and dark brown.
Separate the chrysalis and beetles if you missed them into another container with the same substrate as the larvae and feed them fruit and veg and sift the substrate every week or so for the larvae (worms).
Add them to your original tub with the other worms and you have the cycle repeating itself. Change the substrate every few weeks as it does eventually go off, you can tell this by looking at it.
Silk worms are hardest to keep and there are special tricks to breeding them. First & foremost you need a supply of Mulberry leaves or you cant keep them for long and will never breed them. 
I did dabble in a "recipe" for silkworm feed for winter time, as Mulberry trees dont have leaves then and this means you cant breed in winter as they wont have food, this was years ago and maybe i'll refine the project one day again. Interesting enough and what I wanted to recreate here in Australia, they do have feeding discs in the America, not sure if we have them here yet, but I wanted to crack the recipe.
Silkworms need to be purchased at the egg stage or as larvae.
Feed them mulberry leaves and eventually they pupate in there silk cocoons and called a chrysalis, which is a silk encasing and is used commercially and appropriately named. 
At the chrysalis stage remove and place in a shoe box lined with paper. The moths emerge after a couple of weeks, mate with each other in the shoe box and the females (larger fat ones) lay a heap of eggs on the paper and they all die. 
The reason that you need to line the box with paper is you tear off the eggs and then place them in a plastic sealed bag in the fridge for a month or so which is needed and mimics the winter period when the mulberry leaves are not there... then remove them place them in a container in the warmer months spring/summer when mulberry leaves are around and the cycle starts again.


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## Mr.James (Nov 4, 2010)

Thanks Scott, I've since added some leaves to the enclosure floor gives it a natural forest floor effect. I've also finally worked out how to use my bloody camera! Found a really good setting that actually captures a good natural shot without flash. Will up load pics later tonight.

There is not set way in keeping Boyds but I will share how I have been keeping & successfully breeding mine in short form, as Scott has already provided alot of great information on what is my favorite reptile.

Enclosure - I use both glass & HMR melamine enclosures, but really prefer the glass, as it is easy to clean and will last a life time. Melamine is also great provided you completely waterproof the enclosure, it also holds the tempreture alot better if your not heating the whole room. Enclosure size for my adults is 1220mmHx1220mmLx700mmD. The hatchlings are kept in a 650mmHx600mmLx500mmD glass. Juveniles 900mmHx900mmLx600mmD glass.
The higher the enclosure the better as these dragons love to climb & sit in the tree's all day & night. I wouldn't recommend keeping them in smaller enclosures than I have mentioned as they do need the room. Eventually I will be building a much larger terrarium. Enclosure base has large river pebbles with flyscreen ontop, then I used the kritter crumble and coco or palm peat blocks (unfertilised). 

Heating - I live down south so heating for the boyds is crucial, I provide my boyds with fluctuating tempreatures between 23-28degree's. This is done by using 100W Ozblack ceramic heat emitters & backed up by a 75W infrared bulb & a small oil heater in the room during winter. 

Lighting - I have always used Sylvania Reptistar UVA/B tubes, on a day light cycle.

Food - Woodies, crickets, moths, mealworms, earthworms, & the occasional snail. 

Humidty - Needs to be keep up around 80-90% This can be done by hand misting the enclosure with a spray bottle, a large water bowl, waterfall, or a misting system. I have done all of the above, waterfalls work great and the boyds love them, unfortunately its a real pain to clean them if they don't have a drainage point. I now use the superrain misting system which is running on a digital timer & large 30L water storage.

Furnishings - Plenty of vertical vines/branches, go nuts! Use your imagination. I have kept real plants in the enclosure (cast iron plants) but I find it alot easier to clean and maintain the enclosure without them so I only use fakes now.

Sorry if I missed anything, mispelt anything, I will amend later & possibly add some addition info.


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## Mr.James (Nov 4, 2010)

NETTEDGURU said:


> Could I grab cage diemensions? and incubation temps?


 
Dimensions as above, & incubation temps between 23-26degrees fluctuating. I have heard other keepers have had success with higher temps (28 and slightly lower temps.


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## Southside Morelia (Nov 4, 2010)

Next stage keeping a communal colony, pros and cons and then breeding.

More pics on enclosures and feeding Boyds would be cool first.
Its about crawling before you walk and the more opinions on the the stages would be beneficial and more fluent for us all, than having a disjointed thread. We are all building from the start onward sremember.
Thanks guys...


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## beney_boy (Nov 5, 2010)

Scott, this thread is probably one of the most informative aswell as influential threads i have read on this forum. You are making me want Boyd's even more after reading through each post. 
As i live in Victoria i am unable to keep the Boyds unless upgrading to an Advanced licence, but at the moment the price is just too much, though you are slowly convincing me to upgrade. I was wondering if an enclosure setup like yours (or others posted in this thread) would suit southern angle-headed dragons?


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## Mr.James (Nov 5, 2010)

beney_boy - Yes the enclosures would be ideal for Southern forest dragons aswell, you just need to keep them slightly cooler, most area's do not require heating only UV. Also slightly less humidity 70-80%. Other than that they are same, except Southern forest dragons are smaller in size, approximate adult size is 9-10cm SVL. Where as adult Boyds are around 15-16cm SVL.


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## beney_boy (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks Mr.Boyd. I think in that case they may be on my list now. I have a nice glass aquarium i could just put on its end and use, pretty sure it measures 4ft long x 2ft wide x 1.6ft high. Would that be good for a small colony of Southerns, or even in the future a boyd or two?


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (Nov 5, 2010)

if you want to breed BFD you must have a waterfall ! i will post some pics of mine shortly when i get home


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## cement (Nov 5, 2010)

Great thread Scott.
The Boyds army will be growing in strength!!
This site needs more good threads like this!


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## Mr.James (Nov 6, 2010)

*Here's a few more photo's*


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## Funkstaa (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks for the silkworm info Scott, will definately give it a go.Those pics are great Mr.Boyd- I looove the first one! I put a link of two of my rascals having a munch on woodies for any one interested, nothing special but it still amuses me lol.They're still a little camera shy but it didn't stop them too much from munching : p 

[video=youtube;4NKFrDq8fyI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKFrDq8fyI[/video]


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## Riseman (Nov 14, 2010)

Very informative thread!

Just have a few questions of my own as I intend on expanding my collection with boyds over the next few months..

>Would having Boyds in a display cabinet that is positioned in a high traffic area (My lounge room or Living room) have any major influence on their behaviour? Would high external activity prompt sulking?

>Is increasing spraying frequency/duration an effective solution to combating Summer temperature increases.

>Are there any reliable misting systems on the Australian market that any one can recommend?

Ed


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## Mr.James (Nov 14, 2010)

Hi Ed,

I've have my Boyds on display in a traffic area of the house with no troubles. You'll find some are shy and others don't mind, they will just carry on as if your not there. Depends on the location and how long you have had your Boyds already (if you raised them). Can't hurt to try it out for a while if your enclosure is movable. 

With regards to the spraying/misting during summer, this is good to simulate natural rain over the summer period & keep up the humidity, but it will not keep the enclosure cool unless the water is very cold. I place used to place ice cubes in the water bowl in the morning if its a hot day, it also depends on your heating/lighting/enclosure type. If all the lighting is in a timber enclosure, on extremely hot days you may want to leave them off and just use a low energy room light on, to minimise heat created in the enclosure. 

Misting systems - I use a Superrain misting system made by luck reptile, they are available in Australia and work great, you just need to get a digital timer & a larger storage container for the water reservoir. I use a 30L tub & plan to just put ice in on hot days. I also keep my Boyds in glass enclosures with no lighting/heating inside the enclosure, this helps in summer.


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## Riseman (Nov 14, 2010)

Cheers for the response.

I was just asking about sulking as I don't want to tiptoe around my lounge room to avoid upsetting the Boyds.

I live in Cairns so heating won't be necessary and I should only need to supply a UV light that will be mounted externally above the enclosure. I am looking to setup a large display about 1800L x 900W x 1800H with a glass/aluminium frame and aluminium mesh for ventilation.

I ask about cooling during summer because my inside temps fluctuate from 25-32 degrees. The only way I could prevent exsposure to temps from 29-32 during the middle of the day is by running aircon. 

Will checkout Superrain. 

> Does the flush through system minimise waste odours?

Ed


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## dozerman (Nov 14, 2010)

Great thread guys!!! Fantastic enclosures. Are there any tips on reducing stress on boydii during freight? thanks


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## Mr.James (Nov 14, 2010)

From my experience sulking is usually a sign that the enclosure is not setup right or you have a dominance issue. In such a large enclosure this should not be a problem, if it is properly furnished.
I've only had one Angle-headed dragon sulk in the past, and with a few small changes it sprung to life. 

You'll have to ask Scott about the flush through system, I prefer to clean the enclosure everyday. 

Dozerman - Are you talking about transporting in your car or with a freight company? The best way with freighting is to place them in a breath able snake bag with moist spag moss in a strong dark container with good ventialtion.


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## Bushman (Nov 16, 2010)

This is a great thread! Thanks to all that contributed.


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## Funkstaa (Nov 18, 2010)

Hey guys since we have big viv's for the boyds and as it's so damp etc would it be possible to house frogs in the same viv?
I don't think they would try eating them if they were a decent size, do you think it could work?


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## Mr.James (Nov 18, 2010)

Never tried but it would start to get messy in there really fast...


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## Funkstaa (Nov 19, 2010)

Mr.Boyd said:


> Never tried but it would start to get messy in there really fast...


I've never kept frogs before so unsure what you mean - Do you think the boyds would try and nibble them or frogs are grots?


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## Colin (Dec 31, 2010)

this is the first time I've noticed this thread.. fantastic effort scott  I dont keep boyds but found it extremely interesting and informative.. one of the best threads I've seen on here hands down. thanks for sharing.. this thread is now a sticky. cheers


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## Southside Morelia (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi all,

Sorry for the LOOONG delay in posting, I have had an unfortunate accident that required surgery to my right arm and as a result I cannot type and the reason I have not contributed to the thread. My apologies to all the followers that have asked questions and I have not responded, the above is the reason, as well as moving house amongst the kaos!~
I should be OK to continue on where we left off next week. 
Thanks for the PM's I will endeavor to answer them all but may take time because of the injury.
Cheers guys, looking forward to kicking off the thread again and thanks to Mr Boyd and the other contributors, GREAT STUFF!!!


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## Southern_Forest_Drag (Feb 20, 2011)

Didnt realise you guys in QLD/NSW had to wait 2 years for class 2 reptiles? in VIC i had to get my licenses in my mums name when i was 11 and got my first bearded dragon, they wouldnt let me "transfer" so i had to open up my own license a few months ago (shoulda prob done it at 18 as i woulda got it cheaper concession but i was lazy) and just converted from the book in her name to my book. Got my advance license no issues glad we dont have to wait 2 years or that might of been arkward even though my mum obviously had an advance license in her name.


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## bloodyeddy (Feb 21, 2011)

Mate, Qld doesnt have a class 2 permit. You either have a licence or you dont as Boyd's are covered by the normal wildlife licence in Qld which you can obtain straight away, no 2 year wait. Not sure where your getting your info bud, but its wrong.


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## Southern_Forest_Drag (Feb 21, 2011)

bloodyeddy said:


> Mate, Qld doesnt have a class 2 permit. You either have a licence or you dont as Boyd's are covered by the normal wildlife licence in Qld which you can obtain straight away, no 2 year wait. Not sure where your getting your info bud, but its wrong.


 
Didnt think QLD had to either but someone said they do a few pages back.


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## Southside Morelia (Feb 22, 2011)

The below info is from my own personal experience with keeping Boyds and may differ from some other keepers experiences! 
Thats why this thread was started, purely to get as many keepers individual experiences within the one thread to be an informative GUIDE to keeping Boyds. 
Through experience, reptile husbandry is not a "text book science", if it was, life would be too easy and boring in my opinion!
You gain that knowledge and experience, from doing it yourself and learning from mistakes, BUT hopefully not at the animals expense!! IF you keep the "basic correct parameters" for the animal you keep, that's at least keeping them comfortable, the aesthetics of the enclosure, keeping animals in a colony and breeding all come later..
OK lets move on..
*Keeping a Colony:
*I have kept up to 5 adult animals in my large enclosure with success. I have kept more but had issues, mainly with the males and their dominance over other submissive males. In the wild from what I have been told by herpers that live in those areas and from the limited studies done on Boyds that I have read, is that male Boyds have a pretty large territory in relation to their physical size, so gauging from that, you wont have a harmonious colony IF they are stuck in a small captive enclosure, males will need room to move around and get out of each others way. I have found that females don't exibit the same dominance over each other, although I have not kept a colony of strictly adult females together with no male....maybe they do this IF a male is not the dominant animal and it is an all female colony, any input on this would be great?
What I have found which I thought was interesting is, there seems to be a dominant dragon from early on in their lives IF housed together. I have had baby Boyds all kept in the one tank and after a couple of months one seems to always take charge and eat first and show a domineering presence. I have found this to be a pattern with little Boyds in different clutches and proved to be the case over again.
As they get older, the dominance will intensify and after time when you can identify the sex of the animals 100%, in my experience this behavior has always been attributed to male Boyds only. Head bobbing and lunges at another animal, are all dominant behaviour, although head bobbing when about to hump is a sign of loving as well.  more on that later....
So , what do we learn from that? .....
We should only keep 1 male to a few females in the one enclosure, so this dominance behaviour doesn't lead to stressed animals in the captive environment. 
If they were in the wild, I assume the subservient male would get out of the dominant males territory and try and get his own territory started and defend that..but in a communal colony, he cant do that there's no way of escape. Its not only stressful for the submissive male, but imagine being the dominant male and having to prove yourself ALL the time? That would suck, he's got plenty of loving for the ladies to indulge in, NOT wasting his energy on chasing another male out of his territory all the time without success! 

So in my opinion, why stress your animals out by putting them into this environment to begin with? Admittedly, its hard to tell the sex of boyds when young, but observe and watch their behaviour and you will see the difference as they get older, UNTIL you actually see that the males have a set of gonads that you can see. More on sexing Boyds later. 
I found that 1 male with up to up to 4 females was a great mix... I did not have any more animals as it would have been cruel to house more and this gave them plenty of room to find their own part of the enclosure to get away if needed. They all lived great together with no real dramas and displayed the closest to natural behaviour and bred well, so to me that was a successful colony.
Remember, the BEST result to keeping ANY captive animal, is to supply them with the "closest" one can get to their native environment, which is very important with colony setups.
Looking forward to hearing others opinions and experiences. 
*Sexing Boyds next.....*


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## Southside Morelia (Feb 26, 2011)

*Sexing Boydii*
Well there has been a heap of secrecy around the sexing of Boyds and that it is impossible to tell until maturity....I didn't have too much trouble at all, although when they are young it is almost impossible to see the difference except IMO, only by behaviour and the way that young males interact with each other. As they get older around 8-9months you can notice the 2 bulges of the hemipenes on the tail side of their vent. There are ways to pop the hemipenes, but I wouldn't recommend that and wont even say how its done, as i don't do it but have seen it done and in the hands of someone that hasn't done it before, you could do your dragon harm.
Another way to tell the difference between the sexes besides the obvious hemipenes, is the males have a boof head, much bigger and stockier than the females head, again as they reach up to that yearling mark you can tell the difference, this and their behaviour patterns in a group enclosure are signs to determine sex. If you only have 1 animal, it would obviously be hard to tell from their interaction with other animals, so it this instance, you need to observe the vent area and wait till they are around that 8-12 month age. If you feed your dragons well, they grow quicker and you can tell even earlier.
Attached pic is of a young male, where the hemipenes are starting to become visible.



Riseman said:


> Cheers for the response.
> 
> I was just asking about sulking as I don't want to tiptoe around my lounge room to avoid upsetting the Boyds.
> 
> ...


Hi Ed,

The flush through system is not designed to eliminate waste odours really, although it does to a certain extent i guess, as any poo that's on the substrate breaks down and is flushed through and as a result, doesn't smell, so it does do that.  
The main reason for this system is you can plant live plants and because it is watered regularly, it is moist and it keeps up the humidity. In Cairns, I don't think you'd have a problem with that, like we do in the Southern States, but IMO, this is getting the enclosure as close to their natural habitat, so it has to be good for their welfare, don't you think?
My idea of keeping animals is trying to mimic their habitat as close as we can get artificially, this way you get to see all the natural behaviours of the animal IF they are comfortable in their artificial home.



Funkstaa said:


> Hey guys since we have big viv's for the boyds and as it's so damp etc would it be possible to house frogs in the same viv?
> I don't think they would try eating them if they were a decent size, do you think it could work?


 
Hi Funkstaa, 

Frogs need a special viv as well as Boyds, but I would not suggest putting them in the same enclosure, i'm not sure that you see Boyds in the wild sitting next to a frog, so taking this into consideration, they both must have different specific habitats they live in. Needless to say, their habitats do overlap i'm sure, but definitely not in a small enclosure. To clarify, its not "so damp" that its wet, its moist and therefore humid, there is a difference. 

*Sexing Boydii*
Well there has been a heap of secrecy around the sexing of Boyds and that it is impossible to tell until maturity....I didn't have too much trouble at all, although when they are young it is almost impossible to see the difference except IMO, only by behaviour and the way that young males interact with each other. As they get older around 8-9months you can notice the 2 bulges of the hemipenes on the tail side of their vent. There are ways to pop the hemipenes, but I wouldn't recommend that and wont even say how its done, as i don't do it but have seen it done and in the hands of someone that hasn't done it before, you could do your dragon harm.
Another way to tell the difference between the sexes besides the obvious hemipenes, is the males have a boof head, much bigger and stockier than the females head, again as they reach up to that yearling mark you can tell the difference, this and their behaviour patterns in a group enclosure are signs to determine sex. If you only have 1 animal, it would obviously be hard to tell from their interaction with other animals, so it this instance, you need to observe the vent area and wait till they are around that 8-12 month age. If you feed your dragons well, they grow quicker and you can tell even earlier.
Attached pic is of a young male, where the hemipenes are starting to become visible.



Riseman said:


> Cheers for the response.
> 
> I was just asking about sulking as I don't want to tiptoe around my lounge room to avoid upsetting the Boyds.
> 
> ...


Hi Ed,

The flush through system is not designed to eliminate waste odours really, although it does to a certain extent i guess, as any poo that's on the substrate breaks down and is flushed through and as a result, doesn't smell, so it does do that.  
The main reason for this system is you can plant live plants and because it is watered regularly, it is moist and it keeps up the humidity. In Cairns, I don't think you'd have a problem with that, like we do in the Southern States, but IMO, this is getting the enclosure as close to their natural habitat, so it has to be good for their welfare, don't you think?
My idea of keeping animals is trying to mimic their habitat as close as we can get artificially, this way you get to see all the natural behaviours of the animal IF they are comfortable in their artificial home.



Funkstaa said:


> Hey guys since we have big viv's for the boyds and as it's so damp etc would it be possible to house frogs in the same viv?
> I don't think they would try eating them if they were a decent size, do you think it could work?


 
Hi Funkstaa, 

Frogs need a special viv as well as Boyds, but I would not suggest putting them in the same enclosure, i'm not sure that you see Boyds in the wild sitting next to a frog, so taking this into consideration, they both must have different specific habitats they live in. Needless to say, their habitats do overlap i'm sure, but definitely not in a small enclosure. To clarify, its not "so damp" that its wet, its moist and therefore humid, there is a difference. 

*Breeding Boyds*
Breeding Boyds, like most mature animals is pretty easy, once the sex is determined and you are sure you have a Male and a Female. At around 18+ months the male will start to head bob to the female and then make his move.
He is not the romantic type and bites the crest of the female, pins her down, aligns his vent with hers and inserts his hemipenes. A few seconds later its done! 
Attached are some pics of the male in action as I believe these are pretty rare pics and I have never seen any pics of copulating Boyds before, but I have observed my animals for many hours and have been lucky to see this mating ritual on a few occasions which is fascinating, seeing the courtship and then the males attack. I have been able to tell when a male is going for some action by watching this different head bobs that they do, its faster than the one they do to show their dominance, or just are communicating with another Boyd.
If you witness a copulation, its pretty certain that you know your female will be gravid. IF you don't, how do you tell? 
Females even when gravid aren't really that fat, they are a slim dragon to begin with and because they only lay between 2 and 6 eggs that are pretty small, they don't show excessive signs of being gravid. What I do notice though in females, is they go off their food when gravid and taking that into consideration plus looking at their abdomen, you can tell, or suspect that they may be gravid. Mind you I have missed this on some animals and they lay eggs, so it is sometimes difficult to tell and not an exact science as I have mentioned previously.

At around 4-5 weeks after a successful copulation, the female will start to hang around the bottom of the enclosure looking for a suitable nest site. I have seen gravid girls dig a few test holes but NOT lay, but interestingly, in the wild I have been told, that Boyds lay their eggs at the base of a tree, which seems logical and the best spot I agree, so the new bubs can scurry up the tree to avoid ground predators. 
In my big enclosure I always place a patch of sphagnum moss approx 20x20cm under one of the trees/upright perches because of the above advice and it seems to work most times. 2 of my females have always laid in that moist sphagnum moss spot. Contrary to this I have found eggs in other spots of the enclosure so again it does change and is up to the female where she feels comfortable to lay. 
I have UV lights set up on timers and have observed, which also seems an evolutionary trait, that the female lay just after dark...the dark giving them some cover to avoid predators while they are laying their eggs and are very vulnerable.
I have also witnessed this on a few occasions, which is a magic experience seeing them dig a hole lay their eggs and try and disguise the lay site as though nothing has happened.. Pics attached.
The trick now is to get the eggs out of the enclosure without mum seeing you. The female will be defensive for the first few hours and bite you if you try and dig her eggs out, but after a while she tends to forget or just goes about her life once again and now is the time to remove the eggs ready to pop in the incubator. 
I have done an experiment taking the eggs, I actually had some white marbles, although round were similar size to the eggs and what I did was, as the female laid her eggs I grabbed them straight out and replaced them with the white marbles and she was happy with that and buried the marbles thinking they were her eggs....I tricked her good.. :lol: 
What I do after the female has laid her eggs and because she hasn't eaten for a while, take her out of the enclosure into a separate one and start to feed her up again. I have seen males straight into copulating again and never leave the females alone to recover. I did have one female so harassed by the male trying to copulate with her straight after laying, that she nearly died. So my advice, take her out and give her some tender loving care for a few weeks as the males don't show them that respect.
*Incubation*
I have had 100% success rate with this method, but it doesn't mean its the only way to cook your Boyd eggs, as there are many different ways which has also been proven with snake eggs as we all know.I believe if something works for you then there's no reason to change it!
I get a click clack (or any other container you can get that has a lid) and make a vermiculite mix, so its damp but NOT wet, not sure of the ratio of water to vermiculite as I don't measure the ratio, but remember don't make it watery all the water must be absorbed by the vermiculite.
A test you can do is, if you can grad a handful of the vermiculite mix, squeeze out all excessive water (not too much pressure as you want it to be moist) and if it stays in that clump it in your hand that's good enough. If its too wet you will get mould and this will kill your eggs, too dry and the same will happen.
After i have the vermiculite mix sorted, I make a little divet or hole with my finger in the vermiculite mix, only about 5mm deep which I place the egg into, not so its standing upright, so its laying on its side. The hole should only be as deep as half the height of the egg., ie half the egg in the mix and half the egg above it. after placing all the eggs in the mix, so that they are spaces between, I then place a layer of moist sphagnum moss over the top of the eggs. Again not wet but moist and not too thick just enough to cover the eggs.
Cover them up and place in the incubator. 
I was told by some wise old herpers that have bred Boyds for years and which I gained valuable knowledge first up before I did my own thing and experiment, was to incubate at 28C, cooler than snake eggs, which I have done consistently again & again and have had 100% success rate, so this temp works perfectly! Again there would be many variables and temps as we all know, but for this thread, its a guide that works well, so we don't need to discuss other ways really.
Even few days check on the dampness of the substrate and give the sphagnum moss a fine spray of water IF required and to let some fresh air into the container. If you do all of the above, in about 60-70 days the little bubs will start to emerge. 
I have had some late arrivals even 2 weeks after the first to hatch, so just leave them in for longer if you have some that haven't hatched. You can tell if the eggs still OK, if it is not covered in mould, or doesn't smell and has swollen from its original size, all is still good inside and just wait it out, it will come out eventually.
Caring for the bubs next....


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## Snakeluvver2 (Mar 3, 2011)

That was a great post! 
This thread has mad me feel alot more confident about getting some Boyds.


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## mic772 (Mar 6, 2011)

Someone wanted boyd pics
and no there not for sale. and there offspring are alredy sold.

more Female pics yet to be posted as the one on the ground of the outdoor inclosure is not a clear shot

more female pics to come as the 1 on the far right is not a clear shot.


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## will.harris88 (Apr 8, 2011)

I was just about to post asking for info on these guys....then I saw this right away so much help thanks


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## Erebos (Apr 9, 2011)

*Boyd*

Hey thanks for the info just want to point out a thing about the waterfall Boyd dragons will only drink running water so hence the waterfall i got three babys this year and I use a syringe to give them water twice a day


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## Snakeluvver2 (Apr 9, 2011)

Really? I know a few people who keen them with no water wall just a pond. A still one.


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## Mr.James (Apr 10, 2011)

regular misting will suffice. and it really depends on how they where raised. I have raised many boyds without a waterfall. some will drink from a bowl and some from the spray bottle.


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## Erebos (Apr 13, 2011)

that looks so good mate how much has it set you back im in the midle of seting one up for mysel ATM a bit unsure about things i sent you a pm looking forward to your reply


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## redlittlejim (Apr 13, 2011)

I build the enclosure and my wife put the branches and water fall in  they always drink from the running water except one who just drinks still water


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## Erebos (Apr 19, 2011)

it's good info guys I have kept Boyds for a year now and I'm learning stuff I have never used a waterfall I just spray them twice a day and ocasionly offer there food drowned in a cm of water I keep my adult trio in a 5 foot tall 4foot wide melamine enclosure finding it difficult with getting temps right now because I'm in canberra now instead of north qld and it's starting to get cold your enclosures look great 

By the way I'll try and put pictures up of enclosures in the next few days iPhones don't let u put pictures up


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## redlittlejim (Apr 20, 2011)

br3nton said:


> it's good info guys I have kept Boyds for a year now and I'm learning stuff I have never used a waterfall I just spray them twice a day and ocasionly offer there food drowned in a cm of water I keep my adult trio in a 5 foot tall 4foot wide melamine enclosure finding it difficult with getting temps right now because I'm in canberra now instead of north qld and it's starting to get cold your enclosures look great 
> 
> By the way I'll try and put pictures up of enclosures in the next few days iPhones don't let u put pictures up



iphone tapatalk is how i upload all my pics..... SOOO much faster. takes around 15seconds. just go into the advanced option section of your post and it has upload picture from your phones album. Awesome


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## Erebos (Apr 20, 2011)

Yep lol and I still can't work it out


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## redlittlejim (Apr 20, 2011)

Just press reply and just above your keyboard it say open advanced options


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## Erebos (Apr 20, 2011)

third picture is the enclosure i built for the adult trio, i got the same bark in it as the other one and because it holds humidity realy well and a few gumtree branches if you see the sand it was only temparary and i use tweasers to feed. i havent got any pics of big enclosure set up i will post more when i take some pictures my boyds are a little wierd they like to bask for a while every now and then i have never had babbys before so im new to them but one is more dominant and growing at a much more rapid pace i keep the top half of the big enclosure at about 29 degrese and its about 22 at the bottom im new to cold climits so should i use a heat cord to try and heat the tank or do you think that it will be ok.

also i couldent still work it out lol i did it from my compute


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## redlittlejim (Apr 20, 2011)

tempretures are fine. could go up anther couple degrees at the very top if you want. you need to have complitly verticle branches in there as well. do you hand feed? or just throw woodies and crickets in?


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## Erebos (Apr 20, 2011)

I have vertical branches in the big one not in the little one what temps up top do you think would be best with the younger ones I hand feed so I can control there food but the big ones I don't I just throw in a bowl and there at the bowl eating before I put it down is it ok to feed the bigger ones fish I feed my frillys fish the love them


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## redlittlejim (Apr 20, 2011)

Hmmm I never thought fish! I am going to try it tho! And make sure the little ones have branches as well! Umm 32 at very top is roughly what mine sits on and I have no problems' I keep a handful of crickets in with the little ones and they jump around catching them! And I hand feed woodies just in case they miss put on crix.


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## Erebos (Apr 20, 2011)

Yeah thx I don't want to feed babbys crickets as I was told they can't poo properly with fish but my frillys do and they love chewing them also helps get them to drink

Yeah thx I don't want to feed babbys crickets as I was told they can't poo properly with fish but my frillys do and they love chewing them also helps get them to drink


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## Southside Morelia (Apr 20, 2011)

will.harris88 said:


> I was just about to post asking for info on these guys....then I saw this right away so much help thanks


 That's what this thread is about, an informative & cumulative guide to the keeping of Boydii.
I am sorry for not keeping up with the thread, although I feel its prudent to clarify some important points that have been raised for the benefit of the animals kept.
I personally don't think having a waterfall is necessary, although through my experience Boyds seem to enjoy running water and like to let running water flow over their body which may re-hydrate them and they seem to enjoy the sensation. ( Is it because it is NOT so humid in the captive environment that I have made for them??) In saying that, I have never observed them having a drink from a waterfall, i'm sure they do, but I cant be there watching 24/7.  My approach to having a waterfall in the captive environment, was to keep up humidity as this was a factor that needed to be replicated in the Southern States (NSW for me) which is what these wonderful creatures reside in their native habitat. I'm also sure that if an animal was thirsty they would drink from a clean water source, whether running water, misting or a bowl of fresh water! JMO...
Boyds as do alot of herps, take a poop in their water bowl and their waterfall...obviously the ramifications from this are apparent and one should clean the waterfall regularly and NOT have this as the only water source as it WILL be contaminated by feaces 100%. For me a waterfall was a means to keep up the humidity and to mimic as close to their basic parameters and to what i could achieve to their normal conditions, which kept my animals healthy and encouraged them to display a "normal" in a sense, captive behaviour. This was achieved by these guys breeding and displaying natural behaviours which i hope to share.


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## Erebos (Apr 20, 2011)

Yeah true all animals act diffrent in saying that it has been said they don't have to hav it but it's a nice to look at if you read the thread it is said that ppl don't always use one as I don't for my adults but I notice when I mist they drink from the side of there enclosure. I'm in Canberra and I find it hard for humidity on the best of days so I find that 2 liters in my waterfall will provivide most of the humidity needed for a small enclosure. Without the water dish being to deep


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## Erebos (Apr 25, 2011)

I have done a lot of research on fish now and it seems you should Only feed them fish on odd occasions as there is a high mercury level in fish and to much could kill them small amounts is ok tho


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## ollie (May 20, 2011)

A few pictures of my trio. Had them for 6 months now.

Kept in a reptapet enclosure 600 600 by 900 high ATM

Have a 100w ceramic through winter and a 5% compact fluoro

Misted twice daily

Fed a variety of insects but they love small snails 

I think i've got a male and 2 females but would be interested in what others think

Lets keep the thread alive!


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## Erebos (May 20, 2011)

How old are they they look really nice but it's hard to tell gender from the pictures they all seem to have big heads

The first pic one on left looks male other looks female


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## ollie (May 20, 2011)

They're 9 months old

The one on the left I thinks male too, he seems to rule the rost often perching highest and head bobbing a lot, 

Wait and see


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## Erebos (May 21, 2011)

Yeah it's hard to tell it's amazing 9 months they look big I got a few from last season and there tinny still

In saying that in another 9 months you will know from dominance and fighting


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## Erebos (Jun 5, 2011)

Just thought IDE put some pics up of my new Boyds there a nice colour


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## brendawarner (Jun 10, 2011)

Thanks Scott for all your usefull information. Here is an enclosure I have spent all week setting up. Live plants and flood and drain watering system that works well in matianing humidity. Many Thanks


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## Jesse_H (Jun 17, 2011)

*Enclosure Size*

hi all, 

I'm planning a 900mm L x 900mm H x 457mm D Exo Terra for a pair of adult southern angle heads, but now I'm most interested in Boyds- could an adult pair of Boyds be housed in this? What about a single adult? Also, is keeping just 1 adult bad? Do they get lonely?


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## Erebos (Jun 23, 2011)

Jesse_H said:


> hi all,
> 
> I'm planning a 900mm L x 900mm H x 457mm D Exo Terra for a pair of adult southern angle heads, but now I'm most interested in Boyds- could an adult pair of Boyds be housed in this? What about a single adult? Also, is keeping just 1 adult bad? Do they get lonely?


 
Lol I don't think that one will get lonely. That size is ok for 1 but I personally wouldn't put 2 in it because of it's depth if you do get two as babies that will be fine for a while but with that size I would say would be absolute minimum I have angle heads and Boyds and Boyds are by far allot nicer lizard to look at.


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## Jesse_H (Jun 24, 2011)

I was planning on putting 1x juvenile Boyd into a 900H x 900L Exo Terra vivarium with a couple of red eyed tree frogs. Anyone with experience in this? Is it likely to end in tears?


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## Erebos (Jun 24, 2011)

Jesse_H said:


> I was planning on putting 1x juvenile Boyd into a 900H x 900L Exo Terra vivarium with a couple of red eyed tree frogs. Anyone with experience in this? Is it likely to end in tears?


 
Never tried with frogs I'm pretty sure it would be ok as long as there the size comparison is taken into account.

I just finished another enclosure for my Boyds.


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## geckogirl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jesse_H said:


> I was planning on putting 1x juvenile Boyd into a 900H x 900L Exo Terra vivarium with a couple of red eyed tree frogs. Anyone with experience in this? Is it likely to end in tears?



Won't end in tears for the dragon  

Please share the results of your experimental housing arrangement, so we know whether it can be achieved successfully (or not!) 

Leaf tailed geckos may make good housemates for Boyd's, also - need a MASSIVE viv for that combo, though.


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## Erebos (Jul 9, 2011)




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## Auzkez (Aug 9, 2011)

Food - They adore live pinkies too.


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## Glidergirl (Aug 14, 2011)

I am after some Boyds if anyone has any for sale. I live in Adelaide and have a class 3 lic.

Cheers
Rach


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## hiranbags (Oct 16, 2011)

*A few tips*

Hey I'm only new to Aussie Pythons. We keep Boyds where I work. It might interest people to know that we have White-Lipped tree frogs, Pink Tongue Skinks and Boyds all living happily together. 

Also, we feed ours on pinky mice as well as insects. They're a great protein and nutrient source. Sometimes it can take a bit to convince a new lizard to eat them but once they see the others do it they work it out after a few feeds.

We spray ours with water everyday and make sure its for long enough to stimulate them to drink.

Thats about all I could think to add to whats already been written.


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## Angil (Oct 19, 2011)

I love the Boyds Forest Dragon and would love to own one but I am going to wait until I know I have enough experience and knowledge to keep one, thanks for the thread as it helps to study and learn about this amazing animal.

I love the pics too.

Thanks heaps
All the best
Angil


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## snakeg56 (Oct 19, 2011)

This is a great thread very well done, I also keep Boyd's but lucky for me I live in North Queensland , mine are kept outside in an well planted aviary, with mist spray system and just a matter of interest mine eat dead food items and also have a liking to small amounts of fruit , lucky for me we have species of moth that naturally lives in the enclosure which the hatchling Boyd's are very partial too, this makes it so much easier. I really do admire your indoor enclosure, a lot of thought and time has gone into it, great to see people have a passion for these amazing rainforest lizards


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## ollie (Oct 21, 2011)

Just came home to find my 2 mating on the floor of the enclosure which was a suprise to me . I think they are only 14 months old, looking back at the records. Anyway at least I know I've got a pair. Anyone know how long from mating to egglaying? Female is looking quite bloated now so might be gravid already.

Thanks


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## DebsDragons (Dec 23, 2011)

*Mites on Boyd's*

Does anyone know what to use to get rid of mites on Boyd's!


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 23, 2011)

knoxie said:


> Does anyone know what to use to get rid of mites on Boyd's!



Are they small red mites? How do you think he got them?


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## jasonn (Jan 18, 2012)

Hey Southside, I was wondering how you created your trees, they look great. 

thank you.

regards jason.


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## LizardChick (Feb 14, 2012)

View attachment 238447
View attachment 238448



My Boyd Forest Dragon Bruno.
Age: 10 Months old (Currently 34.5cms)
Enclosure: XLarge Exoterra Terrium, 90x45x90 
Lighting- UV 5.0
Temperature- 23-28 C
Accessories- Xlarge Exoterra waterfall, Exoterra Vines, Exoterra plants, Trees etc, Large water dish, Food dish
Substrate- Reptile Coco pete
Heat mat- Used in winter if temperatures drop
Food- Mealworms, Crickets, Woodies
Dusting- Calcium dust with every feed, Vitamin dust once a month
Gauges- Heat and humidity gauge

I let him catch all his food in his tank besides crickets as they drown themselves straight away so I hand feed him them, which he doesn't mind.

I mist his cage several times a day too keep the humidity up. 

He doesn't mind be handled, when I let him out he just crawls onto my curtain and chills there.

I was wondering if someone could answer some of my questions...
1. Am I looking after him properly? He seams healthy and energetic
2. Is it okay that he lives by himself? The breeder I bought him off said its fine I just have one, but I always see people with more then 1
3. Is his enclosure big enough? 

Thanks 

P.S I will be entering him into this years Easter Show Competition 

I also think my Boyd would eat fruits, but which ones could I try and get him to taste?


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## Grunter023 (Feb 28, 2012)

Pics of my new display tank which will be housing 3 boyds tomorrow as they have outgrown their current tank. This one has an in built waterfall in the background and is roughly 1220h x 1220L x 700w in mm.


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## Grunter023 (Apr 9, 2012)

Few pics. Male on the left.


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## Erebos (Apr 9, 2012)

Grunter023 said:


> Few pics. Male on the left.



Haha u know where they came from the second picture bottom Boyd is a ripper such a nice green. 


Cheers Brenton


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## Grunter023 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yes there is a vast difference in the 2 females I recently got. I originally got the male/female pair and only recently got the 2 extra females from a different source. So the bottom boyd and a smaller one I have seperated due to being smaller in size are more green and have a different shape round the head and spikes at the top (makes it easier to tell my pair and then my other 2 females apart which is handy!)


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## Leasdraco (Apr 9, 2012)

I've worked with these guys before,but never kept them as pets.hopefully I will get the chance.

@ LizardChick, sounds like you've got it all sorted.they are normally happy to share their enclosure,but I don't think they need​ company.


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## Rocky (May 13, 2012)

Ah, waited my two years for class 2 license. Put it off too long. Now I have to wait two more years. I will have you soon Boyds.


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## Grogshla (May 29, 2012)

what rating uvb would you suggest? 5.0?


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## Erebos (May 29, 2012)

Grogshla said:


> what rating uvb would you suggest? 5.0?



Yes


Cheers Brenton


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## Lucas89 (Nov 28, 2012)

Just wanted to let every one know, wile doing some research for a friend about licensing requirements for the Hypsilurus boydii. I called DERM and they told me over the phone that you can keep them in QLD on a recreational wildlife license. current as of 28/11/2012


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## carinacat (Dec 27, 2012)

What size enclosure do you reconmend for them?

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What size enclosure do you recomend for them?


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## DarkApe (Dec 29, 2012)

Lucas89 said:


> Just wanted to let every one know, wile doing some research for a friend about licensing requirements for the Hypsilurus boydii. I called DERM and they told me over the phone that you can keep them in QLD on a recreational wildlife license. current as of 28/11/2012



Yeah that's true i just recently purchased 5 Boyds and i live in QLD and only have a standard license.


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## carinacat (Dec 29, 2012)

Hey there, i am currently converting an old tv unit into a boyds enclosure. I am wondering how i can water proof it? Can i use a pond sealer paint perhaps? Do you have any photos of your drainage system? Thanks Carina


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## Chicken (Dec 29, 2012)

Hi everyone, am building an enclosure at the moment for some boydii and thought i would share my progress so far.
This is the enclosure, it measures 5ft high, 3 wide by 2 deep which should be fine for an adult pair. I bought the enclosure as an old snake enclosure and spent yesterday sanding it down getting the old varnish off (looked horrible).

I pulled out the old party-light fittings and vents/thermostats and cleaned it all out (stank like rotten piss).



This is the enclosure, was lying down while i was sanding it. (excuse the messy garage)




Now standing up.




I was trying to decide what fittings and lighting setup i was going to use, and i ended up going with the 2 fittings on the far left, 1 will have a 100watt ceramic heat emitter (with a cage) hooked up to a digital thermostat, and the other with a 5.0 uv.



I then filled the holes and sanded them down, (the old man is a carpenter and so is helping with a lot of this stuff)





Here is what im staining the enclosure with. The big tin on the right is a black stain which set me back $50 from bunnings, and the one on the left is a marine grade varnish (thanks to Mr.James for recommending it)(about $30) which i will coat in the inside to seal the walls all and waterproof it as the humidity required is high.

Today I started putting on this Black stain and kind of realised its not exactly a stain, more of a varnish, sticky coat but still looks half decent. I didn't a pretty ordinary job on the front and inside so just showing this side. Im leaving this to dry till tomorrow then going sand down the poorly painted parts and re-coat. Now even though im coating the wood with the varnish and sealing it, the wood wont be exposed to the actual water (when spraying etc) as im looking for a rock background. I've spent most of the day calling a few places looking for a background and most are too expensive, cheapest i found was about $30 per ft (i need like 15ft?)
Im now considering tiling the whole inside, mind you im not sure the boydii will even use the background and stick to the trees (even though it kind of defeats the purpose of a display enclosure)
Bunnings sell these plastic tiles that are stick on and have a nice texture (and look good too) which i am considering, as normal tiles would weigh a ton.

Any suggestions would be fantastic, i will definitely post more pics once i make progress and finish staining it.

Cheers, James


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## snakefreak16 (Dec 29, 2012)

. Great job James looks great mate


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## Mr.James (Dec 29, 2012)

It should scrub up nicely James! Your on the right track, I wouldnt put the partition in that. Just use the heat cord below and maybe up the sides to help provide the correct temps. Alternately use a shelf half way and put another heat source in there. I think you'd be better using a 2ft fluro than a spiral to cover more ground.


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## carinacat (Dec 29, 2012)

Looking awesum! Cant wait to start mine but im having a mini heat attack atm from just getting it inside the house! I am using a 4ft wide x 6ft high x 2ft wide tv unit  Will have to get myself some of that marine grade varnish to water proof mine


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## Chicken (Dec 29, 2012)

Mr.James said:


> It should scrub up nicely James! Your on the right track, I wouldnt put the partition in that. Just use the heat cord below and maybe up the sides to help provide the correct temps. Alternately use a shelf half way and put another heat source in there. I think you'd be better using a 2ft fluro than a spiral to cover more ground.



Thanks James, yeah the divider was purely just to half the space as im buying hatchies and the space may be too big. I was considering putting in a 2ft batten as a UV and do have a spare one lying around somewhere. Will wire the heatcord under the substrate to heat the bottom. What do you think about the tiling idea?
Appreciate the help, will have some updated pics in a few days


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## Pako1 (Oct 21, 2013)

Great thread. I live on the Sunshine Coast, and the area where I place the enclosure gets to ~28C, possibly more during the summer. This is without the fan on, but obviously I am not always having the fan on. Would I have to worry about cooling them? If so, how do you cool them?


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## hillsidereptiles (Dec 15, 2013)

They do fine to temps from 22-32, after 32 they don't like it for too long, on really hot days minimise all natural light to help cool them, also spray them as much as possible on really hot days to drop the temp inside enclosure and use coco peat moist/ wet on floor so they can retreat to cooler floor space


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## reptalica (Dec 18, 2013)

Just a few pics of my set-ups......


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## DeadlyDanny80 (Dec 18, 2013)

You've done well... The large enclosure looks fantastic...


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## reptalica (Dec 18, 2013)

Yeah just to clarify, I didn't build that enclosure so I take no compliments or praise for it's doing. I bought this recently as well as another which has a desert theme which was a cracker as well. 

This one has a misting system which has taken a little while to get right. Humidity and temps seem to be ideal now. I have a juvenile boyd's in the large enclosure (awaiting female) and two 8 week old's in the smaller enclosure. 

Will keep them separate until they all adults.


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## Dragonstone (Jan 23, 2014)

Hi guys,

Have been lurking for a while and ready to take the dive into a single/pair of Boyds. I will be taking juveniles.

I am looking at the Exo-Terra 90x45x90 with the monsoon spray setup to help maintain correct temps/humidity.

I live in QLD so I need to get licence still, applying for that in the coming days but would prefer to get all the equipment first.

I don't want an eyesore so is there anything else in the terms of "All In One" units or maybe even something a little larger for a pair. Exo-terra is visually appealing.

Enclosure
Exo Terra : Natural Terrarium Large / Advanced Reptile Habitat

Monsoon RS400 Misting System
Exo Terra : Monsoon RS400 / High-pressure Misting System

Alternatively, if anyone is near the Gold Coast I'd like to get some tips from someone with hands on experience 

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Anyone?


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## Dragonstone (Jan 30, 2014)

Struggling to talk to any Boyd's owners other than Mr. James who I have chatted to a bit. Their enclosure is pretty much ready to go now but it seems either other owners are very quiet or hardly anyone keeps them. Traffic in any forums is minimal and facebook groups non existent. 

Off to enjoy this ride alone it seems


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## DeadlyDanny80 (Jan 31, 2014)

Dragonstone said:


> Struggling to talk to any Boyd's owners other than Mr. James who I have chatted to a bit. Their enclosure is pretty much ready to go now but it seems either other owners are very quiet or hardly anyone keeps them. Traffic in any forums is minimal and facebook groups non existent.
> 
> Off to enjoy this ride alone it seems



Yeah there's not a lot of info out there... I've met a couple of people who have kept Boyd's "but no longer keep them" there were a lot of ads on gumtree & a few other reptile sites of people selling Boyd's inc hatchies... 

Wouldn't hurt to contact them for some info perhaps... Or just run your set up by them... I looked into getting some as I really like their prehistoric look & colors... From what I've heard they are more of a display reptile & I prefer to interact with mine...


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## Glenn (Jan 31, 2014)

Give me a yell Dragonstone. I'm on the Goldy and have kept Boyds.

Glenn
M: 0420 311 678


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## Dragonstone (Jan 31, 2014)

Yeah I was looking at a snake or other type of lizard initially but these caught my eye. Plus the family wasn't too keen on a snake. Lol

Not sure why more people don't keep them though! 

Thanks Glenn I'll shoot ya a text 


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## Dragonstone (Jan 31, 2014)

A bit of a rush job as I'm moving house in a few weeks but their enclosure is ready for some 2 month old juveniles that I am picking up tomorrow. 


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## Archeress (Feb 19, 2014)

hi all. my name is kelly and i am on the sunshine coast. i have only just aquired two boyds. I have been reading heaps on thier care but the one part i cant find any tricks to is thier eating, which is nothing. They are 5 and 7 weeks old. oone has a larger head and is rambunctious and a little angry. the other is placid and handlable. Maybe they are just settling in. the elder just shed his tail. however live woodies and crickets they are not interested in. even small wiggly earth worm i cut in half they dont want. I have left them on a saucer and i have tried tongs feeding..at present nothing. I am misting with a spray bottle twice a day at present and waiting for my mist king to arrive. Any clues?. am i worrying?. cheers kelly.


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## Dragonstone (Feb 19, 2014)

Are they eating at all? Any pics of the two? How big is their enclosure 

Is the food you offering of relative size you've lizaard 


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## Dragonstone (Feb 19, 2014)

Relative size to the lizard***


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## Archeress (Feb 19, 2014)

hi..Enclosure is a reptile one and is 2x2x3 feet high. I originally had them in a much larger enclosure but it was a busy tank (plant wise). and they just hid. Food is small enough for thier mouths and also alive and moving. This enclosure is temporary for 6 months till they out grow it. i needed a small one to keep an eye on them. View attachment 305826


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Also here are a couple of pics of them. 

View attachment 305827


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View attachment 305829
and another

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## Dragonstone (Feb 19, 2014)

They look fine as does the enclosure. 

When was the last time they ate and how many insects each? 


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## Archeress (Feb 19, 2014)

hi there..they were fed on sunday i believe by the fellow that sold them to me. the big one had 3 little woodies and the small one had 2 i think.


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## Dragonstone (Feb 19, 2014)

Who'd ya get them from


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## Archeress (Feb 19, 2014)

Here is the original tank set up which i realised at thier young age was a bit unsuitable. 






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A breeder on bribie called john perry. He has quite a few. beautiful enclosures he has. fully decked out. he loves his boydiis


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## Andie (Apr 27, 2014)

I see such beautiful enclosures in this thread and can't wait to get my long term set up done as my three little ones grow into it (they're still tiny). I don't really have any means/tools to do a DIY/custom job for the enclosure itself so am limited to what is commercially available. And of course I'm discovering that there isn't much out there in the sizes we're talking for these guys!

After way more hours surfing the web than I should admit to, I think I have narrowed it down to two possible suspects.

Exo-Terra Large X-Tall coming in at 90x45x90. 
A Reptile One enclosure that is 60x60x90.

They're frustratingly similar, what you lose in width off one you gain in depth in the other so I wanted to ask if anyone has used either of these for adult boyds and are there any pros/cons to one over the other. The biggest difference I can see is sliding doors over swing opening and that's much of a muchness. 

One things the sites DON'T tell you is how heavy they are (substrate not withstanding). Judging by the constuction of the cabinets, does anyone know, preferably from experience, if a run of the mill, sturdily constructed melamine enclosure would be sufficient as a 'base' (with an inhabitant) or is that just a disaster in the making?

I wanted to know if the 3ft is in fact high enough at all or do I need to be looking for something completely different. I have a few months to nut it all out but I'm a planner! 

FINALLY, has anyone had any success having enclosures shipped from overseas or brought back as oversize luggage? Going to the US in Sept so this is a definite possibilty. (Might need to ask this in a more general thread I realise).


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## Dragonstone (Apr 27, 2014)

Wouldn't worry about overseas stuff. Freight and duties taxes will negate any savings. I have a trio in a exoterra. Doing well so far 


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## Andie (Apr 27, 2014)

Thanks for the reply! I am leaning towards the exoterra more, just because I like how it looks more than the reptile one. I do think I will come down to shallow things like that, I can't find much else as point of difference.


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## Dragonstone (Apr 27, 2014)

Cords are easily hidden, when not in use you can slide the cover across to stop food leaving it. Better air flow, looks nicer, lots of things. 


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## Rogue5861 (Apr 27, 2014)

Buy a URS giant x tall enclosure, 1200 wide, 1000 hide and 470 deep. A much better sized enclosure.


Rick


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## Archeress (Apr 28, 2014)

Whatever cabinet you use to hold the enclosure try and have it with wheels. i do this to all mine and it makes life so much easier when i have to shift the tank to another place or doing extra wiring etc etc.


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## Andie (May 4, 2014)

Went with a Reptile One as I picked up 60x60x90 and stand for $300 on sale yesterday. IDK if it's the best price ever but I was happy with it. Hadn't planned to do it so soon but... sale! 

Will post pics when it is set up for feedback and advice. I still think the little guys need growing another few weeks before they move into their big dragon home.


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## Brando_fish (Apr 19, 2015)

Waterrat said:


> There is no class 1 or 2 in Qld. You need an endorsement on your basic Recreational Wildlife Licence (WIWL) to keep restricted reptiles (which does not include Boyds) but there is no 2 years waiting period like in NSW.



Hey all, great thread, 
Just looking for a minute or two of your time to help me out with a few months and years worth of confusion. I understand the above quote and I have a recreational wildlife licence in qld, and I know with this I can keep BFD but can I breed them and sell them to other licence holders under this licence?

if anyone has breed lizards or sold them under this licence any response will be appreciated 

Cheers Brando


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## reptalica (Apr 19, 2015)

Here is my enclosure.......this houses my adults and sub-adults.


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 16, 2017)

BUMP, any more pics of enclosures Guy's & Gals?


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## Scutellatus (Sep 16, 2017)




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## Southside Morelia (Sep 16, 2017)

Nice, what do you keep in that Viv matey?


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## Scutellatus (Sep 16, 2017)

A pair (hopefully) of Boyds. They seem quite happy on there.


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