# Quarantine



## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

what is everyone’s thoughts on “proper” quarantine? Personally my thoughts are ideally in a separate building to the main collection, 2 years and 3 negative tests.


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## Sdaji (Aug 3, 2018)

That's ideal, but completely unrealistic.

For me it depends on the source and several other variables.

For the vast majority of people, including the virtue signalers, quarantine exists only as lip service, or a feeble attempt which achieves nothing anyway. Proper quarantine is extremely difficult to achieve, even for facilities specifically constructed to carry it out. The average herper has neither the facilities nor the skills required to quarantine.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

Ok so what should the hobby keeper/breeder be doing?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Elcho said:


> Ok so what should the hobby keeper/breeder be doing?



Its down to each individual to do whatever they can to protect their collection from potential risks.
Separate rooms if possible
Separate enclosures
Separate cleaning equipment
Separate feeding tongs
Feed/clean the quarantine animal last
Nothing shared between the new addition and your existing collection.


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## Bl69aze (Aug 3, 2018)

I use seperate enclosures at all times. (Unless breeding)

I’m sure we would all like seperate buildings for quarantine haha


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Its down to each individual to do whatever they can to protect their collection from potential risks.
> Separate rooms if possible
> Separate enclosures
> Separate cleaning equipment
> ...


Testing? Should breeders be testing? What responsibility does a breeder have to take as far as sales go?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Elcho said:


> Testing? Should breeders be testing? What responsibility does a breeder have to take as far as sales go?



This conversation has just taken place on another thread.
Would you be happy to see the price of your purchase increase by 20-50%?
Remember some of these viruses do not have accurate tests available and need multiple tests to be done, (often with false negative results).
Dont just put the buyers lazyness/ignorance back on the breeder, the buyer needs to accept some responsibility of their own. How many times I have to argue with people who want to handle the hatchies before they buy or pet the parents which would put my entire collection at risk. Its hard enough controlling risks that I might bring in without trying to control the buyers who dont give a **** about others collections.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> This conversation has just taken place on another thread.
> Would you be happy to see the price of your purchase increase by 20-50%?
> Remember some of these viruses do not have accurate tests available and need multiple tests to be done, (often with false negative results).
> Dont just put the buyers lazyness/ignorance back on the breeder, the buyer needs to accept some responsibility of their own. How many times I have to argue with people who want to handle the hatchies before they buy or pet the parents which would put my entire collection at risk. Its hard enough controlling risks that I might bring in without trying to control the buyers who dont give a **** about others collections.


I think a lot of people would pay the extra money to ensure they are buying from a clean collection with proof not just lip service. At the same time surely there has to be a minimum standard for quarantine both ends


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Elcho said:


> I think a lot of people would pay the extra money to ensure they are buying from a clean collection with proof not just lip service. At the same time surely there has to be a minimum standard for quarantine both ends



You obviously dont breed. If you did you would know that most buyers go cheap thinking they have a bargain rather than paying for quality and service. Every one of my animals are vet checked before being sold but if I were to also add testing I would not be able to sell anything before it were 8-12 months old and that is if I had them tested within 2 weeks of hatching.
As a vet certificate would add value to the sellers animals do you think there might be forged copies coming out from dodgy people?


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> You obviously dont breed. If you did you would know that most buyers go cheap thinking they have a bargain rather than paying for quality and service. Every one of my animals are vet checked before being sold but if I were to also add testing I would not be able to sell anything before it were 8-12 months old and that is if I had them tested within 2 weeks of hatching.
> As a vet certificate would add value to the sellers animals do you think there might be forged copies coming out from dodgy people?


I actually do breed but in low numbers. You wouldn’t have to test the hatchlings but providing yearly test results for parent animals. Yes someone could fake them but also calling the vet to ensure they are real would be a way around that.
[doublepost=1533262006,1533261108][/doublepost]There is no way to be 100% risk free and I can see a lot of big breeders would push back saying it’s not necessary because the cost of fully testing an animal would easily be $2000 plus per animal


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Im not a big breeder but to test every one of my animals every year would be a ridiculous cost, (More than my annual income if the $2000 per animal you quote is correct), and even then there is no guarantee that the collection is or would stay clean.

There are enough people out there selling WC animals and off licence animals & exotics to evidence that this would never protect any buyer. It will never happen and if it did it would add so much cost that prices would put snakes out of the reach of many prospective herpers, particularly kids getting their first animal.

Best option in my mind is to practice sensible quarantine but if you can spare 2k per animal per year you go for your life.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

2k would be multiple tests to clear your collection in the first place. It would depend what you are testing for also. If you are just testing for sunshine then it’s like $150 per animal.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Elcho said:


> If you are just testing for sunshine then it’s like $150 per animal.



Why would you limit testing for SV? If you are so adamant that its necessary shouldn't testing be included for all viruses that a test is currently available? How can one state that their collection is clean when their animals were tested 10 months ago and there are so many ways of bringing the virus in without applying reasonable quarantine procedures?
There are other viruses out there that testing is not yet available so again how can your collection be 'clean'?

Your argument simply doesn't stack up and while it might be nice to imagine this happening at some stage in the future, and morally there is some foundation to your argument, it is however highly improbable at best. 
Even the logistics......Just imagine how long test results would take if every snake collection in Oz needed to be tested.

How about we test every human entering Oz for the flu virus before we allow them to enter into the community to protect the rest of us? Just as feasible IMO.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

What viruses are an issue that can’t be tested for? I only pointed out sunshine because from a sales point that’s the only one that most people go crazy over. If you had correct quarantine protocols the test that is 10 months old would still be valid plus you would forward on another clear test within 12 months showing the parents are still clear.
[doublepost=1533276717,1533276227][/doublepost]I’m not saying it’s a perfect system but IMO definitely better then the current way. It also covers the buyer. Seller claims the snake got a virus from your collection. You would have the paper work to prove otherwise.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

My statement was........................


Pauls_Pythons said:


> If you are so adamant that its necessary shouldn't testing be included for all viruses that a test is currently available?



Reptarenavirus is very difficult to test for.
Several strains of Bornaviruses have been identified making it another that is difficult to get an accurate result.

Due to problems clarifying the results pooled testing is not offered for most viruses so every animal will need repeat tests, not a single test, possibly more than 2 as false negatives are known. A negative result actually means nothing at all with SV as the animal needs to be shedding the virus at the time of the test.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

All can be tested for... All require multiple tests to be sure. Getting repeat tests every year would clear. Once the snake starts to shed the sunshine virus it doesn’t stop and start again.
[doublepost=1533277637,1533277593][/doublepost]It wouldn’t be cheap but it would be possible.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Whatever.
Fortunately for me dreamland is on the gold coast and Im in Vic
[doublepost=1533279965,1533279737][/doublepost]Never said they couldn't be tested for. You interpreted my statement incorrectly but then again you dont appear too concerned with reality.


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## Elcho (Aug 3, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Whatever.
> Fortunately for me dreamland is on the gold coast and Im in Vic
> [doublepost=1533279965,1533279737][/doublepost]Never said they couldn't be tested for. You interpreted my statement incorrectly but then again you dont appear too concerned with reality.


Lol calm down...


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## Bl69aze (Aug 3, 2018)

How many places are qualified to do reptile virus tests?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> How many places are qualified to do reptile virus tests?



Only one and thats in Perth


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## Bl69aze (Aug 3, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Only one and thats in Perth


WOW that would take a long time for everyone to get those papers haha


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## Pauls_Pythons (Aug 3, 2018)

The Murdoch University
[doublepost=1533283774,1533283718][/doublepost]


Bl69aze said:


> WOW that would take a long time for everyone to get those papers haha



Could be a little wait......


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## dragonlover1 (Aug 4, 2018)

I quarantine my reptiles for 6 months in a different room with different equipment and always feed/handle last.Things like Sunshine virus will take so so long to show up that it will always be too late unless you keep your reptiles in quarantine for ever!
And how do you do that?
Every reptile in a different building?
Not possible


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