# considering a common tree snake



## chrysophylax (Jul 14, 2010)

i've recently moved to VIC where my licence includes the common tree snake which i've wanted for some time now- i love their big eyes, skinny body and nice colours and that they eat fish not mice. 
before i get one i want to know as much as i can. 
firstly is there a particular time of year hatchlings usually start selling or are they available all year round?
for a tank i was thinking maybe 2ft wide x 3ft high with lots of vines and some water at the bottom for feeder fish - would that be appropriate ?
any tips or important info i should know? my boyfriend and i already have a blothed blue tongue skink, heaps of fish, 2 green and gold growling grass frogs (and their tadpoles!) but this would be our first snake.


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## Bec137 (Jul 14, 2010)

arent they mildly poisonous?


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 14, 2010)

Sounds like you've done a bit of homework cp. It may not be the ideal species as a first snake, but if you're switched on it should be OK. Just make sure that any treesnake you purchase is from someone who knows the species well, has got the baby feeding freely, and can be available to advise if you need it.


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## sandswimmer (Jul 14, 2010)

Bec137 said:


> arent they mildly poisonous?



*sigh*


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 14, 2010)

sandswimmer said:


> *sigh*



I second that... thought it best not to comment.


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## snowsnake (Jul 14, 2010)

CTS arnt venomous, and the biggest worry is there feeding response, they are very picky snakes for maybe not the best first snake. and if you do get one, try find some one who has a sub adult or an adult because they will most likley be eating better than a hatchling. apart from the feeding they are actually very easy to keep, a 3x3x2ft enclosure would be prefect enclosure for them
cheers malik


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## Sterlo (Jul 14, 2010)

sandswimmer said:


> *sigh*


don't give him info about them so he can learn just SIGH at him! ahahah


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## redbellybite (Jul 14, 2010)

Bec137 said:


> arent they mildly poisonous?


Bec that would be the brown tree snake your getting confused with there


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## shaye (Jul 14, 2010)

Only person I know of that has some is sye think his name on here is syeth I know others have them and yeh try having a dig threw this forum and fond sye I'm sure he will be more then happy to help u with one


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Sye, NicG, Dottyback, Chris, Trueblue, I keep them too. 
Ask around


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## Bec137 (Jul 14, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Bec that would be the brown tree snake your getting confused with there


 
Thank you. 

To the *sigh*ers I wasn't trying to be stupid, I simply didn't know. Jeez.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

I don't think they were implying that you were stupid.
There is a massive debate on wether they are venomous or not.
Many threads on it, much blood spilt (not really).


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## shaye (Jul 14, 2010)

Haha it's k bec I won't hate u lol thanx jannico for putting few more up


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## 1issie (Jul 14, 2010)

its brown tree snake, redbellybite is right, they have mild vemon to kill its prey,but
its not harmful to people.bec137 thats fine you got a bit confused i can see why


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## shaye (Jul 14, 2010)

Mee too


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Same 
Their both awesome.


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## Bec137 (Jul 14, 2010)

1issie said:


> bec137 thats fine you got a bit confused i can see why


I thought i read somewhere, might have been on here actually, about someone who was out looking for snakes and was bitten on the hand by one and it swelled up and he got sick, not deadly sick, but ill. That's where the comment came from.


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## monique18026 (Jul 14, 2010)

Hi I own a juv they are not the best first they are very shy and don't liked to touched even looked I have talked to people who have owned many and they can have stress attacks and die that' sounds horriable but that happened toSome extramly experencie. Reptile keepers . That doesnt mean it wll happen and as other have said feeding can be an issue and they are easy snakes to find and the most common one youfind will a golden phase and you should pay around 500 to 600 for them . Good luck if you do deside to try and buy one


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

> golden phase and you should pay around 500 to 600 for them


Where!

I wouldnt be weaning them onto rodents untill there quite large as well.
I dont think their bodies are meant for them...but each to their own.


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## shaye (Jul 14, 2010)

Make sure u post pics wen and if u do get one and good stuff bout reading up on them heaps of people do and then u get that lot that don't (not pointing fingers lol it's only pointed at me ) maybe I should


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Might help you decide what you want 










I'm feeding him on fish and the Asian House Geckos around the house


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## monique18026 (Jul 14, 2010)

I payed 600 for mine as a juv and mainly fish and rodents can be feed but no hair it can clog up there intestional track


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## monique18026 (Jul 14, 2010)

I have photos in my gallery of my baby bright yellow ATM


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## monique18026 (Jul 14, 2010)

JAnnico what phase is your one


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## jele69 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bec137 said:


> arent they mildly poisonous?


 
All colubrids are venomous in some respect. Some seem to have substances that simply help digestion so it is more similar to saliva but could still be considered venom since it comes from a separate "venom" gland


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Green 
Much brighter in the flesh (scale)


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## cris (Jul 14, 2010)

Common Tree Snakes are awesome, apart from what has already been mentioned they are extremely quick and agile so you need to be really swithched on and fairly quick to be able to handle them without them escaping or being harmed.

As far as feeding them goes, i dont know if anyone knows what is best(well apart from frogs which are illegal as food in most if not all states). I have heard of them dieing from eating furry rodents and live fish (suspected to be from aquarium medications and i also think fins may cause damage if the snake swallows them backwards or tries to regugite). I feed mine on a variety of foods including pink rats, day old quail, poultry necks, strips of meat (including fish) with supplements and Asian House Geckos. 



jele69 said:


> All colubrids are venomous in some respect. Some seem to have substances that simply help digestion so it is more similar to saliva but could still be considered venom since it comes from a separate "venom" gland


 
I believe there are some exceptions overseas where they lack venom and use only constriction, i dont know much about exotics but Aussie Colubrids including common tree snakes and slatey greys are venomous. Im yet to see it written in any books etc. but it is beyond any doubt. 

Although being mildly venomous (poisonous is an accpetable word but less accurate) Common Tree Snakes are harmless to humans, with possible exception to allergic reaction which as far as i know hasnt been recorded ever. There was a member here who had a bad reaction to a Brown Tree Snake though.

Have a look at this thread Dr. Byran Fry explains things better than i can. There is also info about the non venomous Colubrids on this site.
Venomdoc Forums :: View topic - Venomous Australian Colubrids.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

> (suspected to be from aquarium medications and i also think fins may cause damage if the snake swallows them backwards or tries to regugite)


It caan happen people!!!! Make a note of it. I sure have :| Dont EVER feed GTS fish with SHARP or dominant PROTRUDING dorsal fins or pectoral fins!


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## dottyback (Jul 14, 2010)

buy one thats feeding on fish, direct wild caught can be finicky but once settled in they are great! some of mine will take food right out of my hand! older photos of mine but they come in excellent colours!


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

show off....


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## TA1PAN (Jul 14, 2010)

I have been searching for a hatchling for a few months now and can't seem to find any advertised,are they are rare snake to find for sale?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Quote from Dottyback
it's not what you know it's who you know

hahaha

Get onto Reedy's or better yet the Reptile Research centre. Also amazing amazon has some sometimes.


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## GrantD (Jul 14, 2010)

dottyback said:


> buy one thats feeding on fish, direct wild caught can be finicky but once settled in they are great! some of mine will take food right out of my hand! older photos of mine but they come in excellent colours!



Stunning blue-phase Dottyback!


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## guff_man (Jul 14, 2010)

Been considering getting one for the past 6 months now. I just love the way they look, they are insane, and so many different colors.
Is there any fish that are more beneficial or just ordinary gold fish be fine to feed them? Any fish to stay away from?
Does any one know where theres any for sale? Cant say ive seen any for sale in VIC apart from the one in the for sale section at the moment with the massive scar on it.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

> Any fish to stay away from?



Ones that have spikey dorsal or pectoral fins and fish that are shaped like 





I've been feeding mine on Gambusia that you can catch from most waterways with a simple bait fish trap (cost like $10 from Kmart). I also feed them Asian House Geckos (dont think you guys get them do you?)

When mine are larger I'll be feeding them gold fish and of course larger asian house geckos.


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## HOM3L3SS (Jul 14, 2010)

could you feed them baby mullet???


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## HOM3L3SS (Jul 14, 2010)

or only fresh water species of fish???


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

No idea :S
I would only try fresh water but I really dont have any idea.
Ask Cris, Dottyback, NicG, Trueblue or Kenshin


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## HOM3L3SS (Jul 14, 2010)

yea will ask if i get back on tonight... but right now have to go feed a python


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## guff_man (Jul 14, 2010)

Cool thanks for the reply jannico. Now just to find some for sale..... and to convince my folks. I should just move out... would be much easier lol


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 14, 2010)

Mullet have a small but spiney dorsal fin which is rarely raised, you'll find it if you look - it would be murderous if the fish was regurgitated as in the thread here a couple of weeks ago. You could cut it off though, very close to the fishes' back.

Jamie


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## dottyback (Jul 14, 2010)

fresh water fish would be better as they are more closer in nutrition to frogs.. i feed my FW rainbow trout.


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## Kitmin (Jul 14, 2010)

Jannico said:


> I've been feeding mine on Gambusia that you can catch from most waterways with a simple bait fish trap (cost like $10 from Kmart). I also feed them Asian House Geckos (dont think you guys get them do you?)
> 
> When mine are larger I'll be feeding them gold fish and of course larger asian house geckos.


 
How in the heck do you catch the asisan house geckos ????


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

with my hands....


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## bpb02 (Jul 14, 2010)

Haha yeh hands are pretty handy trapping devices. How many do you feed at time I couldn't imagine a gecko being overly filling


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

When you see a hatchy Tree Snake compared to a shoe lace you'll see that a fully grown asian house gecko is massive! hahaha.

Much thinner snakes compared to pythons.


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## TigerCoastal (Jul 14, 2010)

Just a quick question as i am considering one in the near future, when i was keeping oscars i was warned not to feed to many gold fish and to stick to other species due to the high fat content of the goldfish(?). Would/Could this be an issue with feeding a CTS?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Good question.


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## Akasha81 (Jul 14, 2010)

dont they also emit a foul odour when touched?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

It annoys me that their is no husbandry book for colubrids.


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## PhilK (Jul 14, 2010)

As I understand the major problem with feeding goldfish is that they are filthy animals bred in horrible conditions generally... also I have heard they have very high levels of thiaminase which can lead to thiamine deficiency.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh any more info on that?
Are you saying that they are bred in horrible conditions such as pet stores and people dont really look after them?
Or are they just dirty little fish.


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## syeph8 (Jul 14, 2010)

Warning!!! epic post, due to finding of new information and feel that i must have my two cents on this particular thread (not much different to any other thread )



Bec137 said:


> arent they mildly poisonous?


 
I have not seen any evidence of it myself, but Bryan Fry (venomdoc) is very seriously involved in this field. I would be inclined to believe anything he writes as coming from a reliable (although not infallable) source.

This is the first time i have read this after Chris posted the link:

"Seems reasonable mate. Any light headedness wouldn't have been adrenalin but actually a bit of venom as well. Not a drama. Enough to settlle down a frog but not much of a worry beyond that. Interestingly enough, the big Dendrelaphis in Fogg Dam/Kakadu actually have bigger venom glands. We were expecting the slatey greys to have larger. Instead its teeth are a bit better while the Dendrelaphis went the other way and developed its glands a bit (not too much) and doesn't have as advanced teeth. All variations on a theme. When we were doing this study, a guy in Georgia got smacked by an Egyptian Cliff Racer (Coluber rhodorachis). Nice case of mild/moderate neurotoxicity with some flaccid paralysis lasting seven hours. Consistent with our lab results about the high expression levels of three finger neurotoxinx and high level of postsynaptic neurotoxicity level (the average Colubrinae family snake has venom well into the generic elapid level, with some (certain Boiga, Telescopus, etc) having very very potent venom actually. "

Although i am not sure that this was written specifically about punculata or calligastra(according to DSE, wiki, & others)/calligaster (according to James Cook University), i would personally take it as most probably holding true for these species also. i am curious as the what the delivery mechanisms are though, as previously stated, i have been bitten a couple of times having been mistaken for a fish (god only knows how) and i have seen/felt no evidence of any fangs, rear or otherwise. this explains the reaction difference between boiga and dendrelaphis after bites. i am still yet to hear of a single reaction from a dendrelaphis bite, but havnt ruled out the possibility until im 100% sure how these magnificent, under-rated snakes work. I do know that mine only eat live fish, and they eat it live, not dead like a python or elapid would. 

Ben mate, i am still yet to meet any of your CTS (or any of your snakes for that matter) but am very much hoping one day i get to see that blue one in person.. absolutely stunning! 



Jannico said:


> Green
> Much brighter in the flesh (scale)


 
When am i going to see pics of this CTS?



spottedpython28 said:


> I have been searching for a hatchling for a few months now and can't seem to find any advertised,are they are rare snake to find for sale?


 
Yes, very, especially hatchies and juvies



Akasha81 said:


> dont they also emit a foul odour when touched?


 
I handle mine regularly and have never been stinked. they can as a defense mechanism.. but really dont. i have handled plenty of other CTS throughout my lifetime as well and can think of maybe one occasion i may have been stinked and if that was it, it wasnt that bad... im thinking might have just been wee though. In which case, it is still worse to be pooed on by a beardie IMO



PhilK said:


> As I understand the major problem with feeding goldfish is that they are filthy animals bred in horrible conditions generally... also I have heard they have very high levels of thiaminase which can lead to thiamine deficiency.


 
I find using vitamin & mineral suppliment powder works. i have not had any problems.. i only use it like once a month. i know people that dont use it at all and have had no worries on goldies. the big problem with the fish was meant to be a certain medication used for fin rot or something that had a copper base?? i dont know exactly, but dottyback has all the know-how on that particular subject being a fish man. i feed mine guppies, danio's, goldies, barbs and tetras and have had no worries. i have heard a few reasons why mice and rats are bad for them if eaten too regularly and heard one too many horror stories and so am not currently considering feeding on rodents. 


They are fantastic snakes to own and although they can be a bit temperamental and take some getting used to, they are by far more active than any python i have ever owned and far more interesting to keep.
Keep us posted on how your colubrid collection comes along, we dont see enough of it on APS in my oppinion

so thats my epic CTS post
Sye


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 14, 2010)

hahahahaha FINALLY i saw you browsing this thread for a while dude and was thinking OI when is Sye going to post something.

I'll take some more pics soon. I want him to put on some size first 
I'll be getting some more snakes that you will freaking love too


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## shaye (Jul 15, 2010)

Haha told u sye would post up lol


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## syeph8 (Jul 15, 2010)

i just can't resist...



Jannico said:


> I'll take some more pics soon. I want him to put on some size first
> I'll be getting some more snakes that you will freaking love too


 
send em through when you do take them ay?
what are you getting!?

By the way... This fella Bryan Fry was the dude that cracked the can of worms and discovered that monitors and dragons are venomous and its not bacteria in the mouth from carion causing infection. 

figured id post something he said about dendrelaphis and boiga since it was being discussed.

think i may have just found a new yearling CTS (thanks jannico) to add to the collection. dont ask me what colour phase it is, i really dont care and it wasnt written. keep your fingers crossed for me that it hasnt already gone to anyone!

Sye


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## chrysophylax (Jul 19, 2010)

Wow I should have checked back on this thread sooner!!

Can I firstly say OMG about the pic of the blue snake - it is STUNNING!!!! I had no idea they came in blue!

On the subject of venomous - as far as the opinions here and my other research it appears if they are the worst case scenario wouldn't cause me too much trouble but realistically if you are smart (aware) and don't give it a reason or opportunity to bite you there's nothing to worry about so it's not an issue I am concerned with. 

The one I saw in a store a while ago (no, it wasn't for sale!) was feeding on Platy fish, the store owner I respect his knowledge so my plan (if I get one) is to feed them platys. But I will take note not to treat them or add anything to the water in the snake's tank.

What sort of temperate range should they have? And is humidity a concern?


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## chrysophylax (Jul 19, 2010)

Also all the pics are making me want one BAD!! They are so cute! Anyone who says snakes are scary has clearly never seen one of these!


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## guff_man (Jul 19, 2010)

Yeah this thread has made me fall in love. Just bought another enclosure.... and went to some places to see if they had any with no luck.

Being di-urnal and so bright and colorful really makes me want one


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## menace2society (Jul 19, 2010)

PhilK said:


> As I understand the major problem with feeding goldfish is that they are filthy animals bred in horrible conditions generally... also I have heard they have very high levels of thiaminase which can lead to thiamine deficiency.


 
Due to the very issue with thiaminase I no longer feed feeder fish to my CTS. I did extensive research initially and came across these websites below, both of which I found really insightful, and therefore decided to change over to pinky rats/mice.

Thiaminase

Do NOT feed Goldfish. A Must read for fish-eating snake keepers! - Ball-Pythons.net Forums

Cheers


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## guff_man (Jul 19, 2010)

Whats the go with keeping 2 tree snakes together? Is it generally frowned upon like pythons etc, or because these guys are smaller and eat frogs/fish, would the be safe together?


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## cris (Jul 19, 2010)

guff_man said:


> Whats the go with keeping 2 tree snakes together? Is it generally frowned upon like pythons etc, or because these guys are smaller and eat frogs/fish, would the be safe together?


 
They can try to eat each other (which may kill both), especially if you arnt watching them feed. I have had to stop mine from eating each other a few times and i keep them seperate most of the time.


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## syeph8 (Jul 19, 2010)

chrysophylax said:


> Wow I should have checked back on this thread sooner!!
> 
> Can I firstly say OMG about the pic of the blue snake - it is STUNNING!!!! I had no idea they came in blue!
> 
> ...



temperature range.. well i have a hot end of about 31 and a cool end of 23ish and that seems to go quite well for them. humidity isnt really an issue with them, the humidity in my enclosure is quite low, but i know people who keep them in fish tanks with a water bottom and foliage above and they are going strong in there too. make sure you use vitamin powder if you feed fish. at least once a month, batter a fish in vitamin powder before feeding it (advice i was given and things are going good)
(last pic is quite dark, she is coming up for a shed)
View attachment 155499

View attachment 155497
View attachment 155498


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## chrysophylax (Jul 20, 2010)

I can't see your pics Syeph8, it says they're invaild attachments :S


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## syeph8 (Jul 21, 2010)

bugger... im no good with computers, i should just stop trying!


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## Jules (Jul 27, 2010)

*fish feeding*

Just wondering how you feed the fish to the snake? Do you put a bowl of water, with the fish in it, in there and let the snake fish for it, or is it dropped on the floor flopping around?


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## syeph8 (Jul 27, 2010)

can go either way, generally faster if its flopping around, or you can hold the fish by its tail and they will sometimes take it out of your hand. i tend to do the flop method or the bowl of water method, depending on how much time i have and the situation at the time. thats just mine though, others may have their own methods, but mine will not eat if there is not movement, in fact will sometimes stop swallowing until the fish starts moving again.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 28, 2010)

I leave fish in the in a shallow dish that's deep enough to only just cover the feeder.
If I have time I put the fish in tweezers or my fingers and it eats out of my hand like this.


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## syeph8 (Jul 31, 2010)

Jannico said:


> I leave fish in the in a shallow dish that's deep enough to only just cover the feeder.
> If I have time I put the fish in tweezers or my fingers and it eats out of my hand like this.


 
are you ever fully dressed?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Aug 1, 2010)

clothes are dumb


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## MoOrelia (Aug 4, 2010)

Does the "common tree snake scientist name is : Dendrelaphis punctulata ???

Sometimes it's hard to understand which snake you are talking too as here we usually use scientists name, not the common ones. 

Cyril


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## syeph8 (Aug 4, 2010)

yes dendrelaphis punctulata. 

there was a little side-note somewhere that I read on a fact sheet or research article/book (where is not important) but it said that although it is called dendrelaphis punctulata, it should be called dendreliaphis punctulatus because its not correct use of gender or something and the scientific name doesnt make sense as is. I find these things interesting, even if no-one else does!


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## James_Scott (Aug 4, 2010)

Upmarket pets in Melbourne has a stunning gold phase for sale for $600 ATM. Beautiful specimen. I was very tempted myself but just don't have the room.


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## syeph8 (Aug 5, 2010)

how old/big?


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## Snakeluvver2 (Aug 6, 2010)

theres two of them
ones most likely a female the other unknown.

The female is about on metre the other is about 60cm.
Feeding on goldfish and platy's respectfully.
Both are 600 and one is on hold to a guy in Brisbane who lives in my house.


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## danjerus (Aug 6, 2010)

well I might have to give them a call tomorrow and try snap the other up .... cheers


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## Clarke.93 (Jan 8, 2011)

Ive heard on here that they are rear fanged or something mildly venomous and the only way to get bitten is to literally shove your finger down there mouth.
thats pretty much the quote off what this fella said.


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## cris (Jan 8, 2011)

Clarke.93 said:


> Ive heard on here that they are rear fanged or something mildly venomous and the only way to get bitten is to literally shove your finger down there mouth.
> thats pretty much the quote off what this fella said.


 
They have some enlarged back teeth but they are still very small, made for restraining, maybe slicing, envomating and deflating frogs so they can be eaten. Defintaely no risk to human health without an extremely rare posibilty of hypersensitivity or maybe if you get a feeding bite on the eyeball :lol:


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## Morbid (Jan 9, 2011)

PhilK said:


> As I understand the major problem with feeding goldfish is that they are filthy animals bred in horrible conditions generally... also I have heard they have very high levels of thiaminase which can lead to thiamine deficiency.


 
You could not be more right. I am still learning about snakes, but I am a "official fish nerd" I had huge tanks before I had to move, and "monster fish"... Gold fish a naturally unhealthy, dirty, high in fat and lack a nutrients. Im not sure if they are commonly available out there but Guppys are a cheap safe alternative and they have a lot smoother, slimer, easier to swallow body.

Platys, or other small TROPICAL fish will easily work also just be more expensive. Even fry from larger species will work. You can usually purchase fry for really cheap.


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## giggle (Jan 9, 2011)

Dotty... that last pic is hilarious


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