# B&W Cape Yorks



## hugsta (Jun 21, 2007)

Thought I would take a couple of pics of one of my Cape Yorks.

What do you guys think?


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## Bryony (Jun 21, 2007)

Hot


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## hornet (Jun 21, 2007)

holy sweet mother of mary, they are amazing, how much did they set you back? also how old?


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## Aslan (Jun 21, 2007)

HOLY HELL!! Those are fantastic!!


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## scotchbo (Jun 21, 2007)

My god there amazing hugsta very impressive


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## kelly (Jun 21, 2007)

They're gorgeous!!!


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## eladidare (Jun 21, 2007)

AARRRRGGHHHH!!!
why why why??
i think people like hugsta should be banned for life for making everyone so jelous!
they are hands down the nicest snakes ive ever seen!


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## DanN (Jun 21, 2007)

Locality?


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## tempest (Jun 21, 2007)

Absolutely stunning snake Hugsta!


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## cheyno (Jun 21, 2007)

They are amazing! I want one!


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## m.punja (Jun 21, 2007)

Best looking carpets ive ever seen hugsta! Well done and thanks for rubbing them in our faces.


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## gold&black... (Jun 21, 2007)

have to agree with all, wonderful snake and may I ask who's bloodline it is???


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## ravensgait (Jun 21, 2007)

That is one KILLER animal !!!!!!!! Randy


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## swingonthespiral (Jun 21, 2007)

eladidare said:


> AARRRRGGHHHH!!!
> why why why??
> i think people like hugsta should be banned for life for making everyone so jelous!
> they are hands down the nicest snakes ive ever seen!


 
yep i second that.... its really not fair on the rest of us!!!

Hungsta they are absolutely stunning!!!!


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## croc_hunter_penny (Jun 21, 2007)

WOW :shock: beautiful!


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## Jill (Jun 21, 2007)

Stunning snake, such a pretty face!


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## CodeRed (Jun 21, 2007)

whats that Daz ?

... you want me to have that snake as a birthday present. 
Thanks mate I'll be around to pick him up


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## pavlova (Jun 21, 2007)

Just stunning!!
I'm really lost for words, lol!!!!!

PAV


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## Colin (Jun 21, 2007)

There rippers Darren. But you already knew that :lol:


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## Southside Morelia (Jun 21, 2007)

I'd be interested to know who sold them? 
Very nice, i've been in the market for one for awhile now, just gotta know the right person hey!


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## Toad (Jun 21, 2007)

That is awesome.

Im also very interested in knowing who sells them?

Congrats


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jun 21, 2007)

Very nice daz, stunning actually


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## JungleRob (Jun 21, 2007)

Now that's just showing off!

BEAUTIFUL JUNGLES.


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## hornet (Jun 21, 2007)

DanN said:


> Locality?



look at the thread title


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## Frozenmouse (Jun 21, 2007)

nice snakes jealous!!


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## tan (Jun 21, 2007)

That would have to be THE nicest looking jungle I've ever seen. How old and what sex? Do you have a breeding partner for it in the future? VERY impressed.


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## Jungleland (Jun 21, 2007)

*Hot*

Hot Morelia Hugsta Keep them pics coming now LOL

Joel


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## Magpie (Jun 21, 2007)

Kind of average aren't they?
Hope you are not planning on breeding them.


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## FAY (Jun 21, 2007)

Huggy, you are just such a show-off!!!!

He/She is just gorgeous...


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with all the comments 
Awesome Cape york carpet ,
care to share details on ancestry ?


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## Colin (Jun 21, 2007)

Hey Hugsta, what would you class these as? 
cape york carpet pythons (morelia s. mcdowelli) or cape york jungle pythons (morelia s. cheynei) ? :lol:


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## salebrosus (Jun 21, 2007)

HHEHEHE you already know what i think of them Daz,

Simone.


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## JasonL (Jun 21, 2007)

They look alot like Shane Blacks Cape York hatchies??


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## foxysnake (Jun 21, 2007)

Very hot snake Hugsta, would love to see a full body shot, the patterns on that animals look sweet as!


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## sengir (Jun 21, 2007)

Hey they are absolutely hot I would love to get my hands on one of those animals. If you are sharing where you got them form I would love to know.

Cheers


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## TrueBlue (Jun 21, 2007)

very nice mr hugsta.


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## Anthony88 (Jun 21, 2007)

c'mon tell us where you got them from and how much!!??/


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## sengir (Jun 21, 2007)

At least where? LOL
Again very very nice animals


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## Snow1369 (Jun 21, 2007)

Stunning mate, Thats definatley up there with th ebest i've seen. DanN it's a Cape York, it says that!


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## DanN (Jun 21, 2007)

Specific locality?


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## Snow1369 (Jun 21, 2007)

Cape York is a locality. What more do you want the road their great grand parents (or whatever ones) were caught on?


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## reptile fanatic (Jun 21, 2007)

would love to breed those


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## da_donkey (Jun 21, 2007)

Whats the go hugsta???? you drop these bombs on us, then decide not to log in and give us the details :lol::lol:

They look great, would love to see full body pics.

donk


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## freddy (Jun 21, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> Whats the go hugsta???? you drop these bombs on us, then decide not to log in and give us the details :lol::lol:


 pure evil that is:|


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## fishead (Jun 21, 2007)

Very sexy snake mate!!!!!


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## Hetty (Jun 21, 2007)

JasonL said:


> They look alot like Shane Blacks Cape York hatchies??



I reckon they do too. Is that where they're from Daz?


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## mica (Jun 21, 2007)

They are the ducks guts. Is this a result of selective breeding or they the hold backs from hell and did the parents share the kids good looks?


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## Kurto (Jun 21, 2007)

OMG, that snake is phat. That's definately one for the christmas list!! Did you breed it yourself?


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## MrSpike (Jun 21, 2007)

Darren, they are absolutely awesome. Put me down for a few hatchies when you have some babies

Don't be afraid to post more pics!


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## hugsta (Jun 21, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the comments. It is greatly appreciated. Sorry for not getting back on sooner, has been flat out here today. 

To try an answer a few questions.
They were bred by Shane Black. On paper they are down as cheynei, however their history is not 100% known. I do consider them as Cape York Carpets, as that is what Shane has called them. The adults are around 6 1/2 ft long. Due to not really knowing their full history, there has been much debate over whether they are Cape Tribulation B&Ws or carpets. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable guys on jungles could give their opinions. I am happy to post up more pics if anyone would like to see specific shots of her. 

I do have a pair of these, so hope to breed them in a couple of years. If anybody wants any of the coming seasons hatchies then PM me as I will be selling them. Although, I already have quite a few orders to fill.

Thanks again for the comments.

Cheers
Daz


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## dee4 (Jun 21, 2007)

Try Tremain, he sorted out a few of my querries with the Cape York pair I bought a while back. Either way, that is one good looking snake. Will be good to see what you get once you breed them.

Cheers Rob


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## viridis (Jun 21, 2007)

hugsta said:


> Thought I would take a couple of pics of one of my Cape Yorks.
> 
> What do you guys think?


 

Very very nice Daz,
How does it feel to own what I would consider one of the best looking carpets in OZ. 

Hats off to Shane and yourself. Very impressive snake mate.

Dan N's comment on locality is a very justified one snow. Cape york is hundreds of thousands square kms in area. I doubt anyone could help you daz on a exact locale, as there would be very few people that would of seen an animal of that quality in the wild.

Like I said before mate, thats probably the best looking carpet I have ever seen:shock::shock::shock:

Thanks for the insight, I would not show anyone if I had them. Its good to see such a stuning snake coming into the general public.

WOW
cheers,
Nick Stock


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## ad (Jun 21, 2007)

Very Nice Hugsta,
At $250 they are a bargain! 
Cheers
Adam.


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## MrBredli (Jun 21, 2007)

That's the first thing i thought Ad; that Shane sell his Cape Yorks for $250ea. But surely he didn't let that one go for $250!!? :shock:


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## DanN (Jun 21, 2007)

By the look of them I would defiantly say they are Cape Tribulation Jungles.

I have yet to see anything come out of CYP to look like that. Hopefully I am wrong, as they are beautiful animals and it would be great to find them in the Cape.


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## Retic (Jun 21, 2007)

Absolutely stunning animals Daz, certainly one of the best morelia I have seen in this country. Well done.


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## vinspa (Jun 21, 2007)

She is just awesome in the flesh too!
here is a picture of her brother


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 21, 2007)

dee4 said:


> Try Tremain, he sorted out a few of my querries with the Cape York pair I bought a while back. Either way, that is one good looking snake. Will be good to see what you get once you breed them.
> 
> Cheers Rob


 

Contact Tremain?...lol, I hope you've got your retirement future planned!


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## gold&black... (Jun 22, 2007)

wwebb said:


> Contact Tremain?...lol, I hope you've got your retirement future planned!



:lol::lol::lol:...........


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## Vincent (Jun 22, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> That's the first thing i thought Ad; that Shane sell his Cape Yorks for $250ea. But surely he didn't let that one go for $250!!? :shock:


 They havent been $250 for a while now. Once upon a time they were,but i was mainly selling them to mates and friends of mates, or swapping them for various Elapids,my main interest. Thats why i've never really had to advertise them or freight them. I only ever sold a few to people i didnt know for that price. Since those times interest in them has gone thru the roof and the price has come up in line with other bloodlines of the same quality.


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## hugsta (Jun 22, 2007)

I am glad everyone likes them. They are pretty awesome snakes and just as nice in the flesh.

Thanks Nick, appreciate the comments. 

They have been called B&W Cape Tribulations by almost everyone who sees them. I have sent pics of to quite a few people to all have the same comments as to be Cape Tribs. But, I was told they were Cape York Carpets and that is what I will pass them off as, although, even Shane doesn't believe them to be carpets and believes them to be jungles. They were sold as jungles on paper.

I think they might be a bit more than $250. They may have been at one stage, but amazing what demand does to a price.

Cheers
Daz


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## hugsta (Jun 22, 2007)

LOL Shane, beat me to it by a couple of minutes.

Daz


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## dee4 (Jun 22, 2007)

wwebb said:


> Contact Tremain?...lol, I hope you've got your retirement future planned!



I did say try

None the less, they are terrific. thanks for showing off.


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## indicus (Jun 22, 2007)

Very nice Daz....stunning!!!
' Geordie Torr - Pythons of Australia - page 54 '
Appear very similar in colour and overall appearance; in my opinion....
What some may not realise; is some jungle like animals from this location
can be quite large.....i've seen 6 foot specimens; that look every bit the jungle, other then size.
Looks like you got the pick of the clutch.....wish they all looked that good.....thats the reality.
I believe the line is derived from specimens; wich can be found in small pockets north of Cape Trib. Look forward to seeing some full body shots Daz.....well done mate.....beautiful.

Yes Mr Webb....i will get to you soon; your one of many....cheers


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## Colin (Jun 22, 2007)

hugsta said:


> I am happy to post up more pics if anyone would like to see specific shots of her.
> 
> If anybody wants any of the coming seasons hatchies then PM me as I will be selling them. Although, I already have quite a few orders to fill.



Well I for one would love to see some more pics please Daz, especially some full body shots, And don't forget my order for a ripper pair later this year (as per your SMS) :lol: 

As to what they actually are Jungle or Carpet, I don't know, thats why I asked that question earlier  

Just a random thought here... could it be possible that they are a natural occuring intergrade between Jungles (cheynei) and Carpets (mcdowelii) ?? Any comments on that?

They are very nice looking and spectacular pythons either way. Congratulations to Shane Black


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## indicus (Jun 22, 2007)

Colin wrote: "could it be possible that they are a natural occuring intergrade between Jungles (cheynei) and Carpets (mcdowelii) ?? Any comments on that?".....I agree (others won't)....looks obvious to me.
Area form jungle?...regardless; some B/G forms are still called by most "jungles".....even though they are huge in body size; and can have large clutchs.....i once had a stunner (B&G) that was 5+ foot; every bit the stunner jungle inregards colour and pattern.....when she passed away (sad day).....vet noted she was carrying 22 + plus eggs.....True jungle?; maybe not....however stunning snake non the less.


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## Retic (Jun 22, 2007)

Well you know my opinion and even with the parents being around 6 feet long my feeling is that they still qualify as a Jungle on size alone but with their colour and patterning I reckon it removes all doubt. It is very obvious the line between carpet and Jungle is blurred at best especially with Jungles being a form of carpet. 



hugsta said:


> I am glad everyone likes them. They are pretty awesome snakes and just as nice in the flesh.
> 
> Thanks Nick, appreciate the comments.
> 
> ...


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## krusty (Jun 22, 2007)

very very nice looking b&w you have there normaly i think they are over priced but not these ones


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## BIG RYANO (Jun 22, 2007)

indicus said:


> Very nice Daz....stunning!!!
> Looks like you got the pick of the clutch.....wish they all looked that good...


 They do. I've been to Shane's and seen whole clutch's and most look like that one,a fair few are better. I should have got some when i had the chance.


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## JasonL (Jun 22, 2007)

Just turn up with a nice looking taipan in your pocket, I'm sure he will swap.


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## rexs1 (Jun 22, 2007)

Whatever you like to call them, those snakes are tops. Very clean colours. Well done Shane for breeding them and well done by buying them Daz. cheers


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## Vincent (Jun 22, 2007)

JasonL said:


> Just turn up with a nice looking taipan in your pocket, I'm sure he will swap.


 You know me too well Jason.


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## Colin (Jun 22, 2007)

indicus said:


> Colin wrote: "could it be possible that they are a natural occuring intergrade between Jungles (cheynei) and Carpets (mcdowelii) ?? Any comments on that?"
> *indicus *wrote: I agree (others won't)....looks obvious to me..



Thanks for that Tremain. It seems logical to me that there must be considerable natural occuring intergrade types (for want of a better word) of morelia where the 'normal' types overlap (or did overlap) throughout the country. Not only Diamonds & Coastal Carpets & Port Mac Carpets but other variations beween morelia as well. 

The Gammon Range Carpet between imbricata & metcalfei is another example http://www.southernxreptiles.com/Gammon%20Carpets/GammonCarpets2.htm

Where there is an overlap of mcdowelli and cheynei it would seem logical that there would be a natural occuring form similar to the 'Port Mac Carpet' in my opinion. Whether the 'Cape York Carpet' is this type, I can't be sure.


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## Matt Brock (Jun 22, 2007)

WOW! I love those. They look fantastic.


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## hugsta (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for that info Tremain, myself and many others that have seen the hatchies have all said they look like Cape Tribs, from photos we have seen. But their size and clutch size had me thinking they must have been Carpets. But from what you are saying they would most likely be Cape Tribs. Part of the problem with their heritage I guess is that they were just called Cape Yorks and not much else is known. They certainly don't look like they are any sort of 'integrade'. There is too much regularity in the clutch. They are all fairly similar. Some have a bit more 'jungle like' pattern and some are like the pic of the one above. I will try and get some more pics over the weekend and post them up.

Cheers
Daz


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## Jaglady (Jun 22, 2007)

Gorgeous b&w's. My partner has ordered a pair....cant wait to get them.


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## BIG RYANO (Jun 22, 2007)

Are you taking orders Hugsta?


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## zobo (Jun 22, 2007)

awsome snake, if you ever want to trade..........PM me  (not likely I know!)


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## BIG RYANO (Jun 22, 2007)

Like JasonL said, if you offered Shane some top class elapids he'd probably swap with you,knowing Shane. Pity i wont go near them.


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## CodeRed (Jun 23, 2007)

zobo said:


> awsome snake, if you ever want to trade..........PM me  (not likely I know!)


 

Dont sell yourself short Zobo ... I am sure he'd trade for a pair of yearling greens


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## hugsta (Jun 23, 2007)

Big Ryano, orders are pretty much full at this stage, at least as much I would like to take orders for. There may still be some available but I will wait until I go through and sex them all so I can see what ratio of M's to F's there is so I can make sure those that are on the list get pairs. 

LOL codered, yes willing to swap for greens, albinos and roughies......


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## BROWNS (Jun 23, 2007)

Hey Hugsta,HOT looking carpets there mate,any chance of some full body pics and would love to see some pics of the parents.Might help with some locality info.You say there's not much variance in a clutch which is rare in itself especially with jungle type animals where most jungle breeders know no matter how well you pick your breeders and still after years of line breeding they still get a lot of variation but do get better overall consistency in a whole clutch.

So what i'm saying if these breed offspring consistantly that are very similar to each other in overall pattern and colour for the whole clutch from young animals to adults you're on a really good thing ,and would suggest they could well be proper locality animals if they show very little variation in a whole clutch such as other various locality types.

I would love to see how many of a clutch remain the same colour and what they look like as adults?They definitely look like Cape Trib type animals as suggested and it's not at all unheard of 6 foot coastal jungles which is what Cape Tribs are but what part of Cape Tribulation?I don't know of anyone yet who has bred enough Cape Tribs or who could give an average clutch size and if these animals get to 6 foot in the wild why not larger in captivity and larger clutch sizes.Some Athertons have over 20 eggs per clutch regularly.Seen pics of 6 ft Mission Beach animals,they'd have to produce a decent sized clutch too.They have the right overall patterning for CT type jungles and a couple i've seen pics of remind me of Mark Sims spiders with the reduced thin black lines right down to head pattern which fits the CT profile.Do they have silver eyes even as adults?So i'm in agreeance that they may well be a form of Cape Trib jungle however different again to other CT's i've seen and what part of Cape Trib.

Without a doubt exceptionaly nice animals Hugsta,would love a pair when the list calms down eventually.I'd love to see some adult pics from this line if anyone has any and how they look as established adults.I'm sure i saw one pic a while back of what looked like an adult from the same line and it was a cracker,really nice white and great overall markings,looked Cape Trib bwhite to me.


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

Hey Browns, good to see your still alive......:lol:

Will try and get pics of the adults if I can. Here are a few more pics of two others that I have and one of Shane's hold backs. I have seen about eight animals out of the clutch personally and they are all very similar, there is a couple of unusual maked ones as well as you can see in the pics. I wonder what they will throw when they are bred together in a few years time. The fourth unusual patterned was a bit smaller and a couple of sheds behind the others.

Let me know what you guy think.

Daz


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## Hetty (Jun 24, 2007)

Guessing the last one is the hold back?

Oh, and I think yours is almost as pretty as mine Daz


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

LOL Pheobe, yes almost........


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## MrSpike (Jun 24, 2007)

$250?!?! I would of taken the whole bloody clutch!


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## BROWNS (Jun 24, 2007)

Thanks mate,yeah still alive...only just though LOL

They look every bit cape trib to me now with those better pics especially if all offspring are pretty consistent with colour and pattern which will always vary to some degree.Will be interesting to see how they colour up regarding the white and how they go holding it as adults.

One hell of a score that's for sure would be great to have definite genuine original locality info as it's also quite possible a proper Cape Trib or any other locality type of bw jungle was crossed with something else similar such as a Kuranda or a cape york etc still producing a good degree of black and white animals which may account for some of the different ones,larger body size and clutch sizes which is just a thought.Just that the first pic in particular could easily pass as any pure locality top quality black and white,it's a screamer!


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## indicus (Jun 24, 2007)

Thanks Daz....they look great mate.
I know of a breeder that has produced some CT's the last two seasons.....
He had eight juv's from eight eggs this season; and nine last year.
The female is quite small; very much the jungle....
I'm hoping he will allow me to get some shots to put up.
IMO....this is how it works;
True jungles, such as Palmerston's....short squat, small clutches etc are associated with the escarpments (found on and around the great dividing range).
Follow the water sheds; falling to the west from the top of the great divide; they mostly begin to look more Atherton jungle like......larger, mostly duller; with some influence i believe is associated the larger dry country, open forest cape york morphs.
If you now look to the eastern water sheds falling from the escarpments to the coast....the further away from the ranges the jungles can and often do appear larger; as i believe they at one time or another had some coastal influence....even though they appear jungle inregards colour and pattern.....and i feel are jungles; just different forms....(open forest morphs; or intermediates)
It's interesting to note; that most jungles found on the escarpments; weather they are black and gold, yellow or white; found to the north or found to southern range.....are generally speaking....small stocky types. The further you move away from this range in any westerly or easterly direction they tend to take on size and colour traits that can appear to be associated with either cape yorks to the west or Coastal's to the east.
Now given the fact that some of these forms are very jungle like......look like a jungle in every way other then size; i prefer to call them a open forest, or area form jungles....why? because their more jungle then coastal, or cape york. If they looked or produced sibling's that appeared coastal, or cape york (dry land forms - large snakes; skull and cross bones...often appear Darwin like the further west you go) well then by all means call them as such.
Regardless i believe this line has some great potential; as we can already see....stunning.
I can only imagine what some line breeding will produce.....a great project; which i carnt wait to see what the future holds. If possible can you or Shane please post some of the breeders that produced these hot looking juv's.....thanks in advance.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

indicus said:


> Thanks Daz....they look great mate.
> I know of a breeder that has produced some CT's the last two seasons.....
> He had eight juv's from eight eggs this season; and nine last year.
> The female is quite small; very much the jungle....
> ...


 


I'm sorry, but I just can't help myself....

I'm just absolutely amazed as to how indicus has the time to write all these novels, but for some reason still hasn't got the time to reply to his simple APS and email requests???

I've been waiting for months now just for a few simple photos of what he has available, including the 3k that he wants for a pair...hummmmm?

And now his asking someone else to take their own time out to send him information...HUH???


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## Pike01 (Jun 24, 2007)

Maybe because it gets painfull when you are inundated with requests for pics and so on and he preferrs not to be a slave to the computer.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

pike1 said:


> Maybe because it gets painfull when you are inundated with requests for pics and so on and he preferrs not to be a slave to the computer.


 

That's a fair enough comment and I do understand what you are saying there pike 1. But when it's someone that he knows that has been recommended from a reputible breeder and is a definate buyer...well, then you have to start asking questions, don't you? 

It's also a sad fact with all these breeders coming out of the woodwork now with all these high quality b&w's and at cheaper prices, that indicus will slowly disappear in amongst other top quality breeders that do and will reply to you, wether your a time waster or not...that's just business, and it doesn't matter what business your in, it happens everywhere.


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## Retic (Jun 24, 2007)

I recently spoke to Indicus and I do know he is trying his hardest to get through to everyone but snakes are only part of his life.
Regarding your second point yes there are other B&W's but not Julattens.


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

*re B&W*

Good looking carpets,ive seen shanes adults and bought some young ones,ive always thouhgt they was cheyni.What i call a cape york carpet is something that comes from cape york peninsular such as the irian jaya looking type from iron range or the type from wenlock river.Allot of the juvys that shane black produces have the dorsal stripe and look really deadly looking.Shanes junles have the best looking head regarding the shape,markings and eye bands.Bob Whithey has the ones i had of shanes so there will be a few getting about in the future.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

zulu said:


> Good looking carpets,ive seen shanes adults and bought some young ones,ive always thouhgt they was cheyni.What i call a cape york carpet is something that comes from cape york peninsular such as the irian jaya looking type from iron range or the type from wenlock river.Allot of the juvys that shane black produces have the dorsal stripe and look really deadly looking.Shanes junles have the best looking head regarding the shape,markings and eye bands.Bob Whithey has the ones i had of shanes so there will be a few getting about in the future.


 

Exactly zulu, I agree with you. They may not be Julatten's, but there quality of markings are just as striking if not better!


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

*B&W*



Jagman said:


> That's a fair enough comment and I do understand what you are saying there pike 1. But when it's someone that he knows that has been recommended from a reputible breeder and is a definate buyer...well, then you have to start asking questions, don't you?
> 
> It's also a sad fact with all these breeders coming out of the woodwork now with all these high quality b&w's and at cheaper prices, that indicus will slowly disappear in amongst other top quality breeders that do and will reply to you, wether your a time waster or not...that's just business, and it doesn't matter what business your in, it happens everywhere.


 Why dont you have a winge :lol:


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

Jagman said:


> Exactly zulu, I agree with you. They may not be Julatten's, but there quality of markings are just as striking if not better!


 HaHa youve cheered up :lol:


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

zulu said:


> Why dont you have a winge :lol:


 


I am...lol. And I'm sure there are hundreds of others that would love to have a winge too...lol


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## indicus (Jun 24, 2007)

Well....Jag Man; unlike you; i don't live at a pc!!!!!!
Just for your information; i live a very different life to most; meaning i spend alot of time away from home....prospecting for a living.
I come home and feed and clean reptiles; say hello to the wife; and hopefully get the time to reply to all the requests that people ask of me!!!!..before i have to go back.
I've also had a couple of pc hassles; that have caused delay's.
This season has been a real test of my energy and patience (busier then any previous seasons); ask my wife; she's sick of making excuses for me....As i've expressed; i will and am endeavouring to get back to all those people that wish for one thing or another. What you may not realise; is some are more then happy to waste your time (time and time again); requesting information; that they could quite easily get from a $5 book!!!!! Also you may not realise; i have not been on APS for quite sometime???What does that tell you????....i'm not home.....and obviously unable to reply. 
I will apologise to you personally "Sorry Jag Man; i will be in touch mate"
To those that know me; i'm always willing to help in any way i can; and always try to.
Just maybe you could help me out; and give me the understanding; that i am busy; and will get to you soon. Many apologises to those genuine, understanding people that are waiting to hear from me....i'll be in touch soon....cheers


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## TrueBlue (Jun 24, 2007)

theres quite a number of people around with breeding b/w julattens, you just have to know where to look.


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## indicus (Jun 24, 2007)

How many Julattens have you seen Jag Man????.....not many i'd expect.


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## Retic (Jun 24, 2007)

I agree, there are other forms of true B&W's but my comment was regarding the fact that a breeder like Indicus would disappear because other B&W's now surfacing. Keepers who want pure Julatten B&W's will still go to Indicus for these animals and having seen the parents they have good reason to. 



Jagman said:


> Exactly zulu, I agree with you. They may not be Julatten's, but there quality of markings are just as striking if not better!


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

*re B&W*

Indicus is a bit hard to track down sometimes,hes known to the pitanjarra tribes as "the ghost that walks with a gold pan in hand" he has a cave hidden in the atherton tableland full of B&W jungles and a dog called rebel


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 24, 2007)

lets stick to the topic jagman ,
start another thread if your going to start bitching ,
you crack me up zulu


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## indicus (Jun 24, 2007)

SSSSHHHH!!!! Zulu; ....arrr thats stuffed it the secerts out


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## viridis (Jun 24, 2007)

At the end of the day the snake in indicus aviator is THE BEST snake i have ever seen.

There have been alot of stunning morelias on the net of late, but through my eyes that snake of trees would have to be my fav Morelia I have ever seen. 

Sure there are other with them but out of all the Black and Whites I have seen Indicus are some of the best. 

There are 50 ugly Jungles at Julatten to every good one, its nice to know locality but hot looking snakes will always sell before ugly ones regardless of there locality.

I think people are kidding themselves when they say that snakes only sell on locality. 

piifft

I dont think there would be one true herper in australia that would not do back flips for the snake in his aviator

Nick


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

indicus said:


> How many Julattens have you seen Jag Man????.....not many i'd expect.


 

Julatten's? That's a name and that's all it will ever be! Other names I've most definitely seen, and like I said...there quality and markings are just as good and that is what I am looking for, including a breeder that responds within a reasonable time frame! 

Yes, I guess I am bitching, but that's just me, I'm a podantic scorpio and run a tight schedule just like you do indicus. I run two businesses from home, including a full-time job, plus looking after my growing collection of pythons and also a partner that I don't spend much time with because I'm so busy. But I can't stand not being responsive to potential customers...time wasters or not...but hey, that's just me


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## Retic (Jun 24, 2007)

I agree Nick, just look at Hugstas animals and the fuss they have created. Although I agree they are Cape Trib B&W's their origin is not known exactly but he will sell everyone for top $. 
People will pay big money for locality animals but the same amount for beautiful animals of unknown locale and also for mongrels LOL.


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## viridis (Jun 24, 2007)

Thats it ashley,

Like the carpet x ball,

If NO one knew what they were and some scientist said that they found a new south american species of boa ect everyone would be frothing at the mouth.

Alot of people make good cash out of snakes. 

You only have to look at people still advertising common herps like bredli, womas ect.

I would rather get 5 clutches of stunning animals and sell them all as soon as you advertise them, rather then having 50 womas, 100 bredli, and 75 normal jungles. Locality is not going to pay the food bill lol.

Its nice to know where they are from but at the end of they day its only someones word. I have seen every colour and pattern morph from every locality from townsville to cooktown and you get animals from each of those locales that look exactly the same

I want to start enjoying my animals and put in the time the deserve.


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

Thanks for that info Tremain, very interesting. a little bit more info came to light over the locality, apparently they originated from a southern part of Cape York, so you would think, going off the pattern, they were more an eastern form. So with that in mind, Cape Trib would be considered as a southern part of Cape York IMO. Like you said in an earlier post, pockets are found further north of Cape Trib type animals and you can't really say Cape Tribs only occur in "X" amount of square KMs around Cape Trib as it such a huge area there would be no reason to believe they couldn't occur a few hundred kms away. Just a thought. Maybe you can shed some more light on this theory?

The first time I saw the hatchies I thought they were B&W Cape Tribs, but have spoken about them only as Cape Yorks as that what Shane was told. I even sent pics to Tremain shortly after getting the animals as I was doubtful over them being Cape Yorks. Many people have now called them Cape Trib B&Ws and I can see more reasoning behind that than calling them Cape Yorks, as they aren't much like Cape Yorks at all. 

I have to agree Nick, morphs are becoming much more popular than just locale on its own. If it is a locality specific morph, than even better. But I think the future of the hobby lies with stunning looking animals rather then your average locality specific animal. Good looking animals sell very easy. But that is a another whole debate on its own I guess.

Daz


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## indicus (Jun 24, 2007)

Thats true Daz......B/W CT's are found further north (for want of a better discription).....
The pockets we are referring to; are very confusing ...eg; one would see a coastal like animal; then over the hill a B/G; then crosses the creek to see a completely different animal; that looks like a Darwin...here in lies the problem in North Queensland. Just alone in my area; i've noted 3 different forms of Cape york type animals....
Regardless where, what, how.....if it's a stunning jungle with great colour;
it should always sell for top dollar; over any darker sibling etc.....
As any jungle breeder would tell you; only a percentage are the cream of the crop (per clutch); meaning their over all health and condition; colour!!!!! etc etc.....so stands to reason they will sell fast.....so they should to.
The difference in colour from juv to adult; is in most cases; if not all; is nothing but guess work....More importantly to me; is what percentage of young per clutch eventuate into a top looking adult. Each year most refine by line breeding etc to bring out those traits which they are trying to express; whether it be a good example of a area form; or the colour extremity or in most cases the oddities...regardless; that's up to each breeder. 
If you think a great looking B/W was easy to come by; regardless whether it was an ivory morph (lighter Tully form etc) or Julatten's, CT's; whatever.....think again.
For instance; go find a 18 month old B/G jungle that glows (stunning animal IMO) for sale any where in Oz....not so easy; due to them being few in far between....same goes for hot subadults.
Most breeders sell their stock according to their appearance.
Each form is different in their own way....eg; you started with coastals....now you have to choose....eg striped; hypo's....this that; the other....each beautiful in it's own way.
I'm sure there are some awesome lines being worked with; high colours; locality examples; small clutchs; large clutchs; over all size etc....I'll leave it up to you; rightly or wrongly.
Oh bettter stop with the essay....have to reply to pm's


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## BROWNS (Jun 24, 2007)

Sounds like jagmans another impatient winger and has no idea about jungles.If Julatten is just a word to you why would you be interested in paying $3k for a air if you don't even understand them.Fact is Julatten produces the best black and white specimens available full stop and i reckon $3k is a bargain.Look at all the black and golds that have been around for years now still fetching top dollar from $800 to much more.

Sorry but if i was looking at buying a pair of animals for 3k from Julatten i'd like to know a bit more about the locality myself.There are probably a few other breeders with Julattens but are they as good as the lines indicus has?I've yet to see anyone produce better.What many people waiting must realise is the amount of hysteria the black and whites caused with people hassling Tremain non stop yet he still helps as much as he can.If he doesn't happen to get back to you it's for good reason and if you think you'll get better elsewhere away you go then.

Sorry to go offtrack there hugsta just get so sick of hearing people winging about these bw's.I had one guy get all narky on me cause i couldn't get Tremain to get onto him after 2 days lol go figure?Indicus is just a rude inconsiderate prick who hates herps and has crap reptiles lol


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## Tatelina (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm going to go against the grain and say they look CRAP Darren! Crap you here?? They're not even bright gold and black like the usual pretty jungles! Who cares about Cape York anyway!


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## Tristis (Jun 24, 2007)

there will be some very hot black and whites in a few years.


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

Thanks Tremain, all very interesting. 

So I guess the big question is what should they be classed as? On paper they are cheynei and therefore jungles. Is that what we should refer to them as in the future? It makes no difference to me as they are an awesome looking snake regardless of their name. it is more just a case of being as geniune as possible when selling them in the future.

No worris Browns, side track as much as you like.....LOL

I love you too Tatelina.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Jun 24, 2007)

BROWNS said:


> Sounds like jagmans another impatient winger and has no idea about jungles.If Julatten is just a word to you why would you be interested in paying $3k for a air if you don't even understand them.Fact is Julatten produces the best black and white specimens available full stop and i reckon $3k is a bargain.Look at all the black and golds that have been around for years now still fetching top dollar from $800 to much more.
> 
> Sorry but if i was looking at buying a pair of animals for 3k from Julatten i'd like to know a bit more about the locality myself.There are probably a few other breeders with Julattens but are they as good as the lines indicus has?I've yet to see anyone produce better.What many people waiting must realise is the amount of hysteria the black and whites caused with people hassling Tremain non stop yet he still helps as much as he can.If he doesn't happen to get back to you it's for good reason and if you think you'll get better elsewhere away you go then.
> 
> Sorry to go offtrack there hugsta just get so sick of hearing people winging about these bw's.I had one guy get all narky on me cause i couldn't get Tremain to get onto him after 2 days lol go figure?Indicus is just a rude inconsiderate prick who hates herps and has crap reptiles lol


 

Browny...When you get promised twice on two separate occassions that you WILL receive photos of a b&w pair of Julattens that very same night and that have been put aside for you, you sort of expect to get them straight away for 3k, not 2 months later and still not even one picture or a simple email just keeping me up to date??? Get The Picture Now? That's why I'm just a tad annoyed!

And as for the guy that contacted you some time ago, he is actually a very good friend who has a little more experience then you know, he just plays dumb...lol. And please get your facts straight before posting...I know for a fact and read it myself, that you told him that you would send him Tremain's details so he could contact Tremain and start correspondence, not the other way round! And the way you responded to him was way out of line! Maybe it's time to move on to something else that's a little less stressful for you!

But anyways, life goes on and I've had enough winging for one day as everyone puts it...lol. I wrote this more so others could be aware and so they don't get caught out as I have!


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## ihaveherps (Jun 24, 2007)

Caught out? Pull your head in....


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## dee4 (Jun 24, 2007)

Oh man, you had to go and post them didn't you? Now there is a linching coming for Tremain. how the hell is it his fault, I think you owe him an apology now Hugsta.

I can settle this right now, In Victoria we don't have a category for Junglles/Cheynei, they are just a Spilota. You can just send them down here to me Daz and you wont have to worry anymore about what they are... Sound fair?

Cheers Rob


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 24, 2007)

Hugsta , 
they look like cheynei to me ,
mighty fine looking cheynei too, 
best of luck with them 
cheers Roger


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## Retic (Jun 24, 2007)

I think to be fair and honest to everyone you have to call them cheynei. They just have too many Jungle characteristics to be anything else.


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## Hetty (Jun 24, 2007)

Tatelina said:


> I'm going to go against the grain and say they look CRAP Darren! Crap you here?? They're not even bright gold and black like the usual pretty jungles! Who cares about Cape York anyway!



*hear

You'd think a grammar nazi could get it right


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## Tatelina (Jun 24, 2007)

thenothing said:


> *hear
> 
> You'd think a grammar nazi could get it right



DAMMNIT! Egh. Lack of sleep. My bad. afjg hghiw84yt5 
And no one noticed til you piped up. Thanks. 

But back to the cape yorks...
Hmm.. yes. Cheynei. Definetly cheynei. 


P.s. I haven't got a clue... in any matter.


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## rockman (Jun 24, 2007)

Jagman said:


> Browny...When you get promised twice on two separate occassions that you WILL receive photos of a b&w pair of Julattens that very same night and that have been put aside for you, you sort of expect to get them straight away for 3k, not 2 months later and still not even one picture or a simple email just keeping me up to date??? Get The Picture Now? That's why I'm just a tad annoyed!
> 
> And as for the guy that contacted you some time ago, he is actually a very good friend who has a little more experience then you know, he just plays dumb...lol. And please get your facts straight before posting...I know for a fact and read it myself, that you told him that you would send him Tremain's details so he could contact Tremain and start correspondence, not the other way round! And the way you responded to him was way out of line! Maybe it's time to move on to something else that's a little less stressful for you!
> 
> But anyways, life goes on and I've had enough winging for one day as everyone puts it...lol. I wrote this more so others could be aware and so they don't get caught out as I have!



Mr Jag Whinger , out of curiousity , have you tried to sell something as nice as Tremain's B/W's ? , probably not !!!!. 
I could not even begin to imagine the amount of time-wasters / photo collectors that he would have to deal with . 
I'm not trying to defend Tremain's time frame ( i know he would want that , lol ) but he might just be busy . 
Unlike some people , we have lives to live , work to do , family to spend time with , we don't all hang off the net 24 hrs a day , jumping to everyone's little wim . 
Whinging about him on the net would be one of the DUMBEST things that you could do . 
You never got caught out , he just didn't respond as quick as you would like . I don't think that he will have a problem selling his animals , so you will most definitly miss out now . LOL 
At least this way , everyone else has moved 1 step up the ladder to buying some , BEFORE YOU . HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!
Mr Tagman , I'll have to put you on my " MUST JUMP NOW LIST " , when i breed my B/Y jungles / TrueBlue's hypo's / blackheads , just to remind myself who you are . 
Cheers Sunshine , you put your foot in it today . HA HA HA HA 
Jim


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## Jaglady (Jun 24, 2007)

Rockman
You sound like the worlds biggest herp w**ker, Ive only just joined APS and im so disgusted in so many so called adults in what is a great hobbie (yes I Have a large collection of the highest quality animals) I will be asking to be taken off APS altogether and keeping to myself as I have done with my Herps for many years. 

Go Jagman for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right!


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## katey (Jun 24, 2007)

They are the best looking snakes i think i have ever seen..... how much did you pay for them?
Where did you get them? PM me


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## rockman (Jun 24, 2007)

leanne_codner said:


> Rockman
> You sound like the worlds biggest herp w**ker, Ive only just joined APS and im so disgusted in so many so called adults in what is a great hobbie (yes I Have a large collection of the highest quality animals) I will be asking to be taken off APS altogether and keeping to myself as I have done with my Herps for many years.
> 
> Go Jagman for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right!



Come on leaane , tell me what you really think ???


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## gold&black... (Jun 24, 2007)

hahaha good on u Leanne............


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

leanne_codner said:


> Rockman
> You sound like the worlds biggest herp w**ker, Ive only just joined APS and im so disgusted in so many so called adults in what is a great hobbie (yes I Have a large collection of the highest quality animals) I will be asking to be taken off APS altogether and keeping to myself as I have done with my Herps for many years.
> 
> Go Jagman for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right!


Goodbye leanne,parting is such sweet sorrow,but its better you than them, Tuff Tittys :lol:


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

Well, it seems they should really be classed as Cape Tribulation B&Ws rather than Cape Yorks going off their size, appearance etc etc. They certainly don't look like Cape Yorks and by far look more like Cape Trib B&W jungles. Does anyone think this is wrong? And if so let us know why and your reasoning behind it? From what everyone says they are Cape Tribs.

For those on this thread that want to take out personal frustrations and those that wish to react to it, can you please do so in another thread, Tremain has been very helpful in this thread and it is greatly appreciated as it will benefit all who end up with these animals to have an idea of their locality.

Thanks
Daz


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 24, 2007)

some how i think the localitiy description of cape york got mixed up with the cape trip ,
both start with cape , seems like a logical possibility to me ,
and curtainly going on appearance ? , 
your jungles look like cape tribs ,


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## zulu (Jun 24, 2007)

*re B&W*

The thing is that they are all so varied in colour hugster,one of mine that came from shane had a good amount of light colouration some black surround with brownish and the other was less light and had much more brown.But it maybe as indicus says that not all of a cutch or population come out black and white even in an area like cape tribulation.Its really up to a buyer if they like the look of a snake,thats why shane dont make much fuss he just lets people decide in the end if they like them.


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## ihaveherps (Jun 24, 2007)

Hugsta, I will throw my 2 cents into the locality debate of these animals, although I admit I often have issues getting my point across in text, so bear with me. 

I believe these animals will sell on their own merits easily. Im not a big fan of people asking or changing the locality info of their animals as I am of the opinion that locality data should be definite or other wise not given. I do understand that these pythons come with the broad locality Cape York, and Cape Trib fits within this boundary, but without definite collection data its no more than speculation, and further down the track may lead to pollution of the pure Trib lines, that is if the assumed Trib ID is wrong. This line is also known to have huge clutches, which in my mind also steers me away from the Trib locality anyway.

I guess the point im trying to get across is that, I like alot of others am really impressed with these pythons, and I dont think that the Cape York locality data detracts from the value that these pythons deserve and will fetch. 

On the whole I am against the trend to determine locality data of animals with previously unknown locality based upon colour and pattern, because even in the scenario of a clutch there can be a diverse cross-section of different phenotypes.

Anyway, theres my 2 cents ...


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## junglepython2 (Jun 24, 2007)

ihaveherps said:


> Hugsta, I will throw my 2 cents into the locality debate of these animals, although I admit I often have issues getting my point across in text, so bear with me.
> 
> I believe these animals will sell on their own merits easily. Im not a big fan of people asking or changing the locality info of their animals as I am of the opinion that locality data should be definite or other wise not given. I do understand that these pythons come with the broad locality Cape York, and Cape Trib fits within this boundary, but without definite collection data its no more than speculation, and further down the track may lead to pollution of the pure Trib lines, that is if the assumed Trib ID is wrong. This line is also known to have huge clutches, which in my mind also steers me away from the Trib locality anyway.
> 
> ...


 
Couldn't agree more Ihaveherps. 

By the way awesome snakes Hugsta, prefer one of those to a Jag anyday.


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

I see where you are coming from Simon, but the reason I am trying to determine their locality is not in regards to the money, but keeping them pure. As it works both ways, if I call them Cape Yorks and they are not, then they can be crossed out by someone not knowing any differet and advertised as Cape Yorks when they could in fact be Cape Trib/York mix. 

I know the pythons sell on their own merit, that I can assure you. But how often are you asked for the locality of an animal? Quite often, especially when it comes to jungles as there is such variation from such a small area. It is alos, I suppose, for my own peace of mind as well. Having a better idea of where they come from will help me when I am explaining their history to prospective buyers in the future as well.

Cheers
Daz


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## ihaveherps (Jun 24, 2007)

Sweet as Darren. My post wasnt supposed to have the tone that the name was a marketing ploy as such, more as a vehicle to get my point across... but as i said, I have a bit of trouble relaying my message in text without causing confusion.

Regards,
Simon


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## hugsta (Jun 24, 2007)

You're right mate, no dramas. I understand what you mean. I would just lik to know their locale.....LOL. I don't care where they are from. That is why the title of the thread is Cape York.


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## indicus (Jun 25, 2007)

Firstly; many apologies to you Daz for drama that i've bought to your thread; hopefully myself and a few others can take it else where......
Jagman; i can fully understand why your upset.... i've made it easier for you to air your grievances....please do so in a chit chat thread entitled "hang indicus"; after all it was for your benefit; and others that may have a problem with me.....you may get a shock; to know i've recieved emails from Browns and your mate Mr Webb (corrspondance between them). The difference is Mr [deleted] failed to include a few emails....interesting....how many of Mr Webbs emails did you not see?....regardless; if you wish; i'm willing to address your problems with myself further; just not on this thread....cheers.
Daz; i've spoken to a herper this evening in regards Shanes line of B/W's........which he is quite familiar with. Interestingly he informs me; that this line does have a high percentage of normal cape York looking animals??? One would think; if this line had been bred for a number of years; and there is infact several Sydney herpers with these B/W animals; i can assume given the fact; a large number had been bred; there must be quite a few nice adult B/W's in Sydney collections???...odd as i've not seen many pic's. It may help somewhat; in determining their origin if some of these keepers could post a few pic's of their nice looking adult B/W's....either way mate; i may be able to offer some more imput regarding locals; if i could in fact see some of the breeders. If you are able; or can find the time; it would be appreciated; if not that's fine. Having said that; i agree with Ihaveherps....it's only speculation; and just my opinion. 
As expressed in an earlier post; the difference between juv B/W's and adult B/W's can be quite extreme....The percentage of young that hold their colour to adult; can vary considerably from one local to another.....
Just out of interest; heres a few pictures of some B/W's......Two are CT's; the other two are Cape Yorks; as seen on the western slopes of the Atherton tablelands. These Cape Yorks are not the average in regards their colour....ones that display this whitish colour; are few and far between. Great thread Daz; really got me thinking now; with these hot juv's of yours


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## hugsta (Jun 25, 2007)

No need to apologise Tremain, it was just that this thread has turned from a post about some Cape York Carpets to one that is questioning their locality and I jut wanted to keep it inline. No offence intended to anyone either.

I am not fussed either way as to their locality as they are hot looking snakes, end of story. 

Not sure who you spoke to, but the clutch seems fairly consistant in colour and markings. Obvioulsy some will be nicer than others, but that is the way in any clutch. I look forward to taking pics of the whole clutch, eventually, to share with everyone. I will see if I can get some pics of the adults, may not be easy due to time restraints, but will endeavour to do so for you. The adults are also around 6 or 7 years of age, so obvioulsy don't look as good as they did in their prime at around 2yrs of age, like with any jungles, have lost some colouration. 

I also have not seen any older animals other than the one that was posted by zobo in another thread and that was a pic of a 2yr old animal from Shanes lines. The thing is I guess is there are only a few hundred regular users on this site and there are over 13000 licence holders in NSW alone. So many of these would have been sold/swapped to a lot of people who wouldn't see this thread to post up pics of their animals. I would love to see some more pics of this line at an older age. 

They may well be a rare colour form of Cape York Carpets. What size to Cape Yorks get on average. I though they get a lot larger than 6 1/2 ft. So what does that make them.......a dwarf Cape York perhaps. LOL  It is an interesting thread and when it is all said and done, I would just like to be able to advertise them as either Cape Yorks or Cape Tribs, not that I need to at this stage. They have sold on the fact of what they look like although adding locality would be good. Your knowledge and help is appreciated.

Daz


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 25, 2007)

I was not recomending a locality name change either guys , 
i was stateing what locality they looked in appearrance etc 
based on my 23 years of living in north queensland and observing plenty of carpets from many different areas ,

i class cape york as being from lakefield up ,


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## rockman (Jun 25, 2007)

Jaglady said:


> Rockman
> You sound like the worlds biggest herp w**ker, Ive only just joined APS and im so disgusted in so many so called adults in what is a great hobbie (yes I Have a large collection of the highest quality animals) I will be asking to be taken off APS altogether and keeping to myself as I have done with my Herps for many years.
> 
> Go Jagman for having the balls to stand up for what you think is right!



Sorry Jaglady / leanne what-ever , quick question , are jagdude's mum or girlfriend ?


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## CodeRed (Jun 25, 2007)

somehow I dont think Jagman will be buying B&W carpets any time soon


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## rockman (Jun 25, 2007)

CodeRed said:


> somehow I dont think Jagman will be buying B&W carpets any time soon



LOL


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## Retic (Jun 25, 2007)

Do we really need to be introducing this kind of stuff into Hugsta's thread seeing as you have already posted it in another thread ?


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## rockman (Jun 25, 2007)

boa said:


> Do we really need to be introducing this kind of stuff into Hugsta's thread seeing as you have already posted it in another thread ?



Sorry Boa , it was put here because it has peeded me off , having some arrogant person bagging some-one out that did not deserve it . Someone that less then 3 weeks ago was stressed because his jungle was not feeding , someone that wanted to cross B/W's with B/G's . 
If you can work out how to delete it from the other thread , let me know ? 
Cheers Jim


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## Retic (Jun 25, 2007)

Yeah no problem, I can certainly understand your frustration but it's a shame to detract from Daz's beautiful animals and I am not placing the blame on you for doing that.
Can you still edit an older post ? If so it could just be deleted, it would still be there but with no content ?


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## junglemad (Jun 25, 2007)

They are very impressive looking snakes Hugsta. Sorry to get this thread back on track


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## rockman (Jun 25, 2007)

Hugsta , i would have to agree with most on this site , those animals are amazing .
Surely buy now if Shane has breed so many over the years , would there not be some photo's of adults snakes floating around for us all to look at ? Just to be able to see the aged parents , might help work out if they are true to form Cape Trib's or the larger Cape Yorks ? . 
I have never heard of the smaller form ( cape trib's , palmerstones , mission's ) having clutches of 20 - 30 . 
Surely it would be benificial to yourself to know the locality of the snakes , so when you are selling them , the buyers would not be getting mixed up and be producing unknown stuff 2 - 3 generations on . 
Again , congrats on some stunning looking animals , it will be great to see your line of carpets in a few years . 
Cheers Jim


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## Retic (Jun 25, 2007)

I agree, I would love to see a few photo's of the parents of these snakes and I do agree that ALL Jungles lose their looks as they age but it does give an idea of what is expected from the hatchlings or juveniles.


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## spongebob (Jun 25, 2007)

Hey Daz, yes they are nice looking (for a snake!). You dont have any available with legs do you?
Bob


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## hugsta (Jun 25, 2007)

rockman said:


> Hugsta , i would have to agree with most on this site , those animals are amazing .
> Surely buy now if Shane has breed so many over the years , would there not be some photo's of adults snakes floating around for us all to look at ? Just to be able to see the aged parents , might help work out if they are true to form Cape Trib's or the larger Cape Yorks ? .
> I have never heard of the smaller form ( cape trib's , palmerstones , mission's ) having clutches of 20 - 30 .
> Surely it would be benificial to yourself to know the locality of the snakes , so when you are selling them , the buyers would not be getting mixed up and be producing unknown stuff 2 - 3 generations on .
> ...


 
Exactly rockman, which is why I am trying to define a locality. I would like to see them sold as what they are so people don't accidently cross them with something else. If they choose to, well that is their decision. 

Yes, I can't wait to see what they produce when bred back together. I am sure a few generations of line breeding will poduce some stunning animals. I will try and get some pics of the adults if I can, not sure when though.

You would think some one would have surfaced with these lines by now, but who knows where they have all ended up and it may be a while before anyone else is producing from them.


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## hugsta (Jun 25, 2007)

spongebob said:


> Hey Daz, yes they are nice looking (for a snake!). You dont have any available with legs do you?
> Bob


 
Will see what I can attach Bob.......:shock:


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## BROWNS (Jun 25, 2007)

Definitely would be interesting to see the adults as i'd say you'll get an answer on locality or bloodline pretty easily.There again lies a massive difference between true black and whites and others that are not.You'll find the majority of black and whites that are stunners stay stunners and although as has been said they do lose quality in colour as adults as you do with pretty much all black and golds the true bw's tend to not smudge or black out keeping great black and the white can change from bright white to ivory and silver tones still very different to say adult black and golds and adult Cape Yorks should be easily noticed as adults.It's common knowledge even all or most jungles start out black and silver but then change dramatically however having seen many of these true bw's colour up from hatchies through to breeding age etc it seems the majority of a clutch outcome seems quite consistant even without line breeding.Of course degrees of how bright the white is and how solid the black is will vary they are still overall black and white.The difference i've noticed with these cape york/tribs i've noticed is quite some variance from only the few i've seen and none that are of any decent age to judge as they may look great now and in another 6 months but do they all go white with black and hold that colour?The miniature capes at 6 1/2 foot i'm not too sure about,i'm sure many have the line of Cape Yorks that have been around for a long time now that grow into really big thick set animals with huge heads but although they look massive none i've seen have been bigger than 6 1/2 -7 foot from that line and there's a heap of those around.I owned a couple that looked just like one of the pics idicus put up asking if anyone knew which were tribs or yorks which i doubt anyone could've guessed.That line itself have been sold as Yorks for years but are actually crossbreeds...."shock horror" LOLI'm sure many know the bloodline i mean and i've seen some stunners from that line that looked very very similar to black and whites but weren't and appeared somewhat similar to hugstas or Shanes line except for the real cracker of hugstas.Seems like a few people have this line judging from posts and the main breeder himself so surely someone has adult photos.I guarantee you'll get more locality info from even one pic of a pair of adults that are of a mature age.Surely Shane has some adult pics.Most jungles do lose colour as adults but you do still get incredibly coloured adult black and gold adults and i mean proper adults not just first time breeders but they're far and few between rare as rocking horse turds which is what is one of the main musts for me in a top notch jungle is which is what it ends up like as an adult not how it looks at 6-18 mths when they're at their best.

I'll try and put up some pics showing animals from young ages and same clutches to the age they are now and breeding as well as some up to 8 year old adults, all crackers too but you will still get mature aged adults that are stunning just not quite as stunning white when at their best but they stay nice and clean too.Also the adults should have silver eyes.I might get indicus to send me a few pics as i'd hate to take him away from dedicating his time to his detractors and it will show the consistency of true quality bw's and how they can progress from young to old.They are without a doubt the most stunning carpet to see in the flesh compared to pretty much anything else i've seen and they're not black and off white,cream,tan etc,they're black and white with the very very odd one showing yellow.

Not wanting to side track again but looks like jagman's had a sudden change of name and like he said his good mate Mr Webb is so very experienced,he just plays dumb PMSFL Fact is he wouldn't know a quality black and white if it bit him on the nose and neither would jaglady.If you already got a better pair than Tremain has why all the bother in the first place jagman,or is that Mr [deleted].It's not cool pm'ing people abusing them and when it gets put up you realise what gooseberrys some people can be:lol:


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## indicus (Jun 25, 2007)

God that was boring......but luv the last bit....hahahaha :lol:
Just kidding Browns; you raise a few very valid points mate.
I'm in the process of getting hold of some older animal pic's
from Shane's line....will take a few days; thats the problem with living in NQ.


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## cockney red (Jun 26, 2007)

Blinding thread. kept me amused for what seems like hours. As for all the verbal wrestling, grow up boys, for most "ITS ONLY A HOBBY"


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## bavic5460 (Jun 26, 2007)

where would one get something like that are you close to breeding at all


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## hugsta (Jun 26, 2007)

Look forward to seeing those pics Tremain. I have seen Shanes adults, but never bothered taking pics of them. I should have, but didn't realise how far this thread would go....LOL If they are Cape York Carpets and they are a an uncommon colour form , they may well be axanthic animals. Seems to be the way to go by giving animals specific names so maybe they should be Axanthic Cape Yorks........

Daz


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## Moonfox (Jun 27, 2007)

Wow, I literally gasped when I saw those... just so you know, I've got them alternating as my desktop image .

Gorgeous snakes! Way out of my league though... For now


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