# Check this womaxcarpet



## Outbackexotics (Jun 15, 2007)

http://74.220.207.106/~moreliap/forums/showthread.php?t=4424


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## craig.a.c (Jun 15, 2007)

Ther are calling them "Comas".


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## Scleropages (Jun 15, 2007)

hehe


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## Australis (Jun 15, 2007)

Bloody ugly looking freak, poor bugger.


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## Snow1369 (Jun 15, 2007)

they look awesome, but i'd rathe a woma, danm yanks.


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## OzRocks (Jun 15, 2007)

you know Im sure the owner would make alot more money if he breed pure womas!!!

But that would be woma X bredli.....how would ya get a woma to breed with a bredli?!!


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't agree with that necessarily but it's a pretty snake.


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## Australis (Jun 15, 2007)

boa said:


> I don't agree with that necessarily but it's a pretty snake.




:shock:


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## S.D. (Jun 15, 2007)

Dunno about anyone else… But I’m going to have trouble sleeping now.

I know close to nothing about biology and genetics etc. and I’m not gonna even pretend I have a clue but I just have no idea how that would work. I have so many questions too. Would it have heat pits? OK I do have too many questions so I will stop typing before I end up with a massive novel type post… My Womas and Carpets are basically polar opposites apart in so many ways. I have no idea how this could work and like I said, I have far too many questions. So I’ll stop there before my brain explodes.

Anyways, it looks to me as if they got the pattern, colour and scales of a Woma and the body and eyes of a Carpet Python (Irian Jaya in this case). I am totally freaked out right now… And as a result it’s only going to get worse as I just found out there is a whole “Hybrids/Intergrades” section in the forum (never noticed it before).


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2007)

It's been done quite a few times before. They don't have heat pits but aren't confused as I have heard people say in the past LOL. They just eat rats like either parents would and they like the heat just as both parents would.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 15, 2007)

Please let it be sterile.


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## cris (Jun 15, 2007)

boa said:


> It's been done quite a few times before. They don't have heat pits but aren't confused as I have heard people say in the past LOL.



May i ask how you know they arnt "confused" or whatever?


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## dragon_tail (Jun 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Please let it be sterile.



im with you buddy! ive seen some freaks in my time, but this is just messed up! i almost want it to be put down, if it had a mirror in its enclosure it would be suffering.


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## Miss B (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't like that idea hey, it just doesn't seem right. It's Frankenpython :shock:


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## S.D. (Jun 15, 2007)

dragon_tail said:


> im with you buddy! ive seen some freaks in my time, but this is just messed up! i almost want it to be put down, if it had a mirror in its enclosure it would be suffering.


 
Ohh Ohhhhhh… That’s a bit harsh d00d! Poor little things  Not their fault how they look.

In a way though I am glad not too many people here in Australia get into hybrids and intergrades with our native species. In my humble opinion it is 100% cool for it to happen in the US and Europe though as alot of their species are imported anyway. That said though I would hope that it was done in the best interests of the animals and undertaken by those with some knowledge about what it is exactly they are doing.


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## Cristina (Jun 16, 2007)

Just a little info on Kara and Kevin at NERD...They are the foremost unethical breeders here...They have been at the forefront of basically ALL morphs here in the States..They use venomids at shows and let children play w/ them.

The Purists (ppl like me ) believe snakes should be as they are..this is a HUGE debate here...Purists and morph lovers...HUGE! 

Many ppl I know who have many decades in Herpetology are trying to stop this disgrace to herps.

So please dont think its ALL of us..We are very passionate about stopping this..but money talks

Check out Snakehook.net..Brett Gardin owns the site and has decades of experience..(he was the 1st to speak up about them when nobody would) and theres a thread all about NERD..check it out


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## PilbaraPythons (Jun 16, 2007)

Unfortunately there are a few individuals here in Australia that also aim to create these sorts of freaks. For the sake of scientific understanding fair enough and perhaps it could be justified, for any other purpose seems selfish to me and is certainly viewed by the majority of the population as a disgusting practice.


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## Cristina (Jun 16, 2007)

Some of Bretts opinions of NERD..lol



"Kara, Kevin, if you want to sue me for this, my contact information is on the main page. 

There are many reasons why these people are pond scum and have done irreparable damage to herpetoculture for everyone. They have mocked and spread poor ethics like wildfire on virtually every level of the hobby...everything from inbreeding, spreading disease, dealing in venomoids, child endangerment....you name it, it's probably happened at NERD at some point unless it's positive. We have all seen the photos of the showboating outdoor event where they were letting kids play with cobras and gabboon vipers. We have all seen the head bobbling spider balls that they claim is just a really cool personality trait...when in reality it's neurological disease. Where does it end? Apparently it doesn't." Brett Gardin


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## Rennie (Jun 16, 2007)

S.D. said:


> In a way though I am glad not too many people here in Australia get into hybrids and intergrades with our native species.[/FONT]



http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=54862

Please read this thread. I don't want to start this debate here but true intergrades are naturally occuring animals, not to be confused with hybrids/crosses.


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## Cristina (Jun 16, 2007)

check this out-

http://redtailboa.net/forums/debate/34895-hybridization-debate-v1-0-a.html


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## S.D. (Jun 16, 2007)

Rennie said:


> http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=54862
> 
> Please read this thread. I don't want to start this debate here but true intergrades are naturally occuring animals, not to be confused with hybrids/crosses.


 
Oh I know that and I’ve read that thread before. What I meant by “getting into” was getting an intergrade line unnaturally and purposefully – a naturally occurring Diamond line that appears to have some Coastal in it and a Diamond crossed with a Coastal purposefully are two different things. But some people out there are more worried about selling their animals rather than owning up (and this seems to happen a lot more than people would like to admit) and just claim the “intergrade” clause. I mean the only way to call a person out on this is if they admit to it, and I’m sure a lot of us have seen and read the “Is This A Pure Diamond?” threads and it gets quite heated – and the results are: 

20% say the animal is a hybrid,
20% say it’s an intergrade,
20% say it’s a Coastal,
20% say it’s a Diamond and,
20% (usually those with the experience and knowledge) say that you just can’t tell for sure.

I am REALLY hoping not to start all this over again either and in no way am I trying to get an argument going out of this, but I’m just saying I think there is a difference and you can get the two confused as we have all seen happen before.


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## iceman (Jun 16, 2007)

thats just wrong!!!!


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## Khagan (Jun 16, 2007)

Cristina said:


> Just a little info on Kara and Kevin at NERD...They are the foremost unethical breeders here...They have been at the forefront of basically ALL morphs here in the States..They use venomids at shows and let children play w/ them.
> 
> The Purists (ppl like me ) believe snakes should be as they are..this is a HUGE debate here...Purists and morph lovers...HUGE!
> 
> ...



Was just looking at their site, it looks like they'll crossbreed/inbreed anything for a quick buck.. Like this 'thing' for example . http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available/showproduct.php?product=194&sort=2&cat=28&page=1


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## TrueBlue (Jun 16, 2007)

ill just stick to my locale specific stuff, im not into playing god, (the devil is much more fun).haha.


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## Rennie (Jun 16, 2007)

S.D. Fair enough, I know exactly what you mean now.


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## Tatelina (Jun 16, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Please let it be sterile.



Agreed. First thing I thought was YUCK!


How much would someone pay for a mongrel like that?


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## Isis (Jun 16, 2007)

Why do some humans think they can mess with Nature. It would be one of the wierdest looking things I have seen. Its a big dose of that good old human arrogance shining through again,"We are the master species, we will play with all things natural for our own amusement" Hmmmm and I thought there was only one Hoser on the planet....
In my opinion crossbreeding on purpose should be illegal. If its not stopped it will get to a stage where there will be no "true" species left other than a small population that will end up so inbred that they will have all the negative traits come through.


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## Frozenmouse (Jun 16, 2007)

can you cross an elepid with a python ...freaky possibilities.. thorny devil cross perenti. leopard gecko cross kimodo dragon..
evoloution or revoloution..


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## Vincey (Jun 16, 2007)

that snake is amazing..... i quite like it. imagine the colours and stuff when it grows...


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## Horsy (Jun 16, 2007)

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available/showproduct.php?product=280&cat=22&page=1

Well I personally think this one is stunning.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 16, 2007)

Dabool said:


> can you cross an elepid with a python ...freaky possibilities.. thorny devil cross perenti. leopard gecko cross kimodo dragon..
> evoloution or revoloution..


 
Thankfully no.

Except for the naturally occuring carpet x tigersnake


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## Charlie (Jun 16, 2007)

I actually think it's gonna look awesome when it's older, but still i'm with the majority and think it's wrong.


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## beeman (Jun 16, 2007)

the people that are creating this rubbish shold be taken out the 
back and shot, why do people have to try and stuff up the beautiful
natural variations that we have in the python species just for the 
sake of doing so. VERY INFURIATING!!!!!!!!!!


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## euan (Jun 16, 2007)

I have known Kevin for more than 15yrs and do not feel it is correct that you bring this personal attack onto this forum. Besides which your first paragraph is false.
Kevin has never been into wildlife for the money, because he makes money from wildlife does not mean he is in it for the money. He earns a living from wildlife and there is nothing wrong with that. Without dealers we would all still be in the dark ages with herpetoculture. Ask the old timers what it was like thirty and more years ago.
The hybrid debate is emotional and I do beleive this thread was not started as a debate but rather to show an interesting animal.
Kevin's hybrids have more to do with attaining a difficult breeding than money or anything else. Do you understand the mechanics that must have gone into such a breeding.The comments on such a cross genera breeding are what is interesting. The animal pictured has wonderful markings and a very interesting head, IMHO. I for one am very interested in how such a breeding came about. Not as simple I would think as putting two snakes together.
For the record I have never owned a spp hybrid and never will. But I beleive that everybody has the right to their views and not be infringed on by others. Unfortunately from your post you do not seem to beleive this. 
It seems to be a sad direction that we are moving in, in that others feel their opinion overrides another's because they beleive they have the moral high ground. This vocal minority seems to beleive that they have the right to have laws enacted against those who follow a different lifestyle etc..
If someone engages in an activity you find objectionable then don't deal with them simple.
Euan




QUOTE=Cristina;856427]Just a little info on Kara and Kevin at NERD...They are the foremost unethical breeders here...They have been at the forefront of basically ALL morphs here in the States..They use venomids at shows and let children play w/ them.

The Purists (ppl like me ) believe snakes should be as they are..this is a HUGE debate here...Purists and morph lovers...HUGE! 

Many ppl I know who have many decades in Herpetology are trying to stop this disgrace to herps.

So please dont think its ALL of us..We are very passionate about stopping this..but money talks

Check out Snakehook.net..Brett Gardin owns the site and has decades of experience..(he was the 1st to speak up about them when nobody would) and theres a thread all about NERD..check it out [/QUOTE]


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## Horsy (Jun 16, 2007)

Here here, Euan.


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## Khagan (Jun 16, 2007)

euan said:


> Kevin has never been into wildlife for the money, because he makes money from wildlife does not mean he is in it for the money. He earns a living from wildlife and there is nothing wrong with that.



If hes not into it for the money then why not just breed pure snakes? He could make a living still off that, without all the stupid crossbreeding and crap. You can go on all you like that people don't purposely make these crossbreeds etc for money, but imo higher demand and money than an average reptile is the only reason i see for making crossbreeds etc..

No one would go to the trouble of making some weird ass crossbreed or something if it didn't benefit them in some way, whether it be money or 'recognition'.


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## rodentrancher (Jun 16, 2007)

Well I think that having a snake like that is nearly as bad as breeding labradoodles, beagadoodles etc etc. Why not keep them pure??? That is really bad taste stuff in my book. Cheers Cheryl


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## Cristina (Jun 16, 2007)

Khagan said:


> If hes not into it for the money then why not just breed pure snakes? He could make a living still off that, without all the stupid crossbreeding and crap. You can go on all you like that people don't purposely make these crossbreeds etc for money, but imo higher demand and money than an average reptile is the only reason i see for making crossbreeds etc..
> 
> No one would go to the trouble of making some weird ass crossbreed or something if it didn't benefit them in some way, whether it be money or 'recognition'.


 

EXACTLY!

Thier are so many ANTI-NERD Herpslovers here....showboating venomoids in front of children... what kind of message does that send? If u have a true love for Herps than it isnt about $...NERD makes hundreds of thousandsof dollars...YEA hes not in it for the $$$

NERD will crossbreed ANYTHING it can...


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## theduclos (Jun 16, 2007)

I don’t really have enough experience to comment on the snake. But do all you people not agree with cross breeding anything at all? For example look at the dog world you have all sorts of crosses. Rotty x boxer, lab x retriever, staffy x ridgeback (which happens to be my favourite cross) my ignorance will probably spark a debate but I just wanna ask. Crossing a dog doesn’t lead to anything that will cause the dogs life to be led in any way different to a pure, is it the same scenario with snakes? If so and crossing 2 breeds of snakes cause nothing more then an ugly/great looking pattern then why bother getting upset? 

Don’t bag me out for being ignorant, if it is a different story with snakes then it is with most other domesticated animals (assuming that the reptiles in captivity are ‘domesticated’) just say so.


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## Miss B (Jun 17, 2007)

^ I think the difference between dogs and snakes, is that man has already modified dogs to the point where most of them are absolutely nothing like their original natural form ... the wolf. We've got bulldogs with breathing difficulties, many breeds with hip dysplacia, etc - man has bred some pretty poor traits into dogs throughout the various domestic breeds available these days.

The thing with these snakes is that they are currently mostly in their naturally occuring form, and these hybrids would have an almost zero chance of ever occuring in the wild. The canine equivalent, for example, would be like crossing a dingo with a wolf, or crossing a wolf with an african wild dog (etc). That just wouldn't happen naturally, and it's bound to cause problems in the subsequent offspring of these pairings.

Oh and when they are selling their hybrids for US$15,000 I find it very hard to believe that they are not in it for the money. I personally don't agree with it, myself.


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## theduclos (Jun 17, 2007)

Miss B said:


> ^ I think the difference between dogs and snakes, is that man has already modified dogs to the point where most of them are absolutely nothing like their original natural form ....


 
A much better response then I expected. Those problems you describe also happen quite often in the purebred dogs. According to some vets it is actually more common that purebreds suffer from weak heart/lungs, and have those hip problems over a mixed blood dog. You are correct in as far as a dingo never normally breeding with a wolf, but if the resulting dog has no physical abnormalities and is totally healthy then why should it be a problem? At the end of the day is it that important what blood your animal has so long as it is healthy and a great pet?


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## gold&black... (Jun 17, 2007)

never really cared for hybrids but after seeing some of the various mixes I'm actually starting to like them......... Do agree it's wrong but sooner or later it is gona happen....... For a start, there is a guy in AU who is already mixing his albino with every single form of Morelia pythons and u will be seeing the results soon...........


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## stencorp69 (Jun 17, 2007)

rodentrancher said:


> Well I think that having a snake like that is nearly as bad as breeding labradoodles, beagadoodles etc etc. Why not keep them pure??? That is really bad taste stuff in my book. Cheers Cheryl


 
????? Think about what your saying? How do you think poodles came about as a breed? They didn't occur naturally in the wild.


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## Rennie (Jun 17, 2007)

theduclos said:


> I don’t really have enough experience to comment on the snake. But do all you people not agree with cross breeding anything at all? For example look at the dog world you have all sorts of crosses. Rotty x boxer, lab x retriever, staffy x ridgeback (which happens to be my favourite cross) my ignorance will probably spark a debate but I just wanna ask. Crossing a dog doesn’t lead to anything that will cause the dogs life to be led in any way different to a pure, is it the same scenario with snakes? If so and crossing 2 breeds of snakes cause nothing more then an ugly/great looking pattern then why bother getting upset?
> 
> Don’t bag me out for being ignorant, if it is a different story with snakes then it is with most other domesticated animals (assuming that the reptiles in captivity are ‘domesticated’) just say so.



Also, domestic dogs are all the same species, so cross breeding leads to fertile offspring. There are many different species of snake, and cross breeding these leads to infertile offspring, like mules (with the exception of cross breeding subspecies, like carpets, which still produce fertile offspring). A woma X carpet would not be fertile, therefore IMO, unnatural.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 17, 2007)

pure breed dogs are NOT naturally occurring, they are pretty much all man made if im not mistaken. Quite a bit different to snakes i think.


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## Miss B (Jun 17, 2007)

^ That's exactly what I mean, almost all dogs (including purebreds, crossbreds, mongrels etc) are the way they are because of selective breeding by humans. They do not occur naturally. "Dogs", in their most un-modified form include wolves, dingos, and african wild dogs. Purebred dogs have many health problems thanks to us humans.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jun 17, 2007)

Those pics of that juvy are nearly 3 years old.
Is there any photos of an adult coma? or do they die early?..was it n.e.r.d.that crossed a scrubby with retic or burmese python?


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## S.D. (Jun 17, 2007)

Rennie said:


> Also, domestic dogs are all the same species, so cross breeding leads to fertile offspring. There are many different species of snake, and cross breeding these leads to infertile offspring, like mules (with the exception of cross breeding subspecies, like carpets, which still produce fertile offspring). A woma X carpet would not be fertile, therefore IMO, unnatural.


 
Fortunately it seems the same thing happens with tarantulas as a lot of breeders (especially in Europe) have tried very hard to cross various species for colour and pattern reasons. However it seems that the vast majority of offspring do not hatch, the survivors die soon after and the very VERY few (if any at all) that survive until breeding age, are infertile.

I have also heard that this occurred in Australia recently, apparently by total accident. Two varying species were put together for mating, but at the time they were thought to have been the same species of tarantula. When the mortality rates were beyond disastrous for no apparent reason, the owner sought help and after providing information and pictures, it was revealed that the parents of the few remaining offspring were in fact of differing species and thankfully the few remaining offspring that survived through until breeding size were infertile also.

If that’s not a friendly reminder from Mother Nature, then I don’t know what is?


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## S.D. (Jun 17, 2007)

Miss B said:


> ^ That's exactly what I mean, almost all dogs (including purebreds, crossbreds, mongrels etc) are the way they are because of selective breeding by humans. They do not occur naturally. "Dogs", in their most un-modified form include wolves, dingos, and african wild dogs. Purebred dogs have many health problems thanks to us humans.


 
Yeah I agree. The reason for most of these health problems and defects occurring in Purebred dogs is due to inbreeding allowed to occur by (us) humans. It’s a long cycle in most breeds to create a Purebred line of dogs and without going into too much detail, in most cases this was brought about by a lot of inbreeding. But by repeatedly breeding the best looking animal with it’s offspring and creating better looking animals with a greater frequency, not only are you getting the good looks being passed on to all the further generations of the line, but also the health problems contained within this dog at the time due to the aforementioned inbreeding and these problems will be further magnified by continuing to keep the bloodline of these animals as “pure”. 

So basically: a) the animal will have it’s own, sometimes unique health problem and/or defect and b) this health defect can not be bred out of the breed as this would break the Purebred line (therefore you’re basically breeding an animal with health problems and defects to and animal with health related problems and defects and making these problems worse essentially). For example Labradors are very prone to hip and skin problems, Jack Russell’s have a high degree of joint and eye related problems and Cocker Spaniels are prone to hip and ear infections which can become quite severe.

What a lot of people fail to realise is that cross-breeding species is basically a means to overcoming the health related problems of Purebred dogs as not only will a cross “clean” the bloodlines so to speak of the particular breeds, but it also negates the particular health problems related to the particular species. A Labrador bred with a Poodle for example is much less like to experience hip joint and skin problems than a Purebred Labrador.

Therefore I think you could argue that cross-breeding in dogs is actually beneficial and should not be compared to the situations occurring in snakes at all. “Mongrel” dogs have less health problems, they’re able to breed and like previously mentioned, did not occur naturally where as snakes do obviously. The only reason people want Purebred dogs is for looks, personality and basically the degree with which the looks and personality of the dog can be guaranteed to the owner. Here we have two types of different animals – Dogs, a domestic animal and Snakes, a non-domestic animal. You just can’t compare the two.


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## oxyranus (Jun 25, 2007)

different thats for sure.


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## MrSpike (Jun 25, 2007)

That thing is sweet. I might make me my own.


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## mysnakesau (Jun 26, 2007)

Not my cuppa tea - its an offense to our womas and our carpets


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## krusty (Jul 12, 2007)

it will be interesting to see how it turnes out when its an adult.
this sort of thing will start happening here soon and there will be a big market for it
because every one wants some thing that looks different.im not saying its right i just think it will start here soon and will take off.......jmo.


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## PhilK (Jul 12, 2007)

Woah wait a minute... I didn't even KNOW two species could interbreed... That's biologically impossible. Unless the offspring is infertile

The definition of a species is that it can interbreed to create fertile offspring no? So if a Woma and a Carpet can interbrede and produce fertile offspring... that makes them the same species :S? Confused..


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## Retic (Jul 12, 2007)

Different species of many types of animals can interbreed, some are fertile and some aren't. I'm not sure if it has been proven one way or another with Comas.


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## PhilK (Jul 12, 2007)

Blood & Studdart's Veterinary Dictionary defines species as "...capable of interbreeding to produce fertile or viable offspring"

It confuses me that this therefore means womas and carpets are the same species?! Argh!!


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## junglepython2 (Jul 12, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Blood & Studdart's Veterinary Dictionary defines species as "...capable of interbreeding to produce fertile or viable offspring"
> 
> It confuses me that this therefore means womas and carpets are the same species?! Argh!!


 
That defintion is a bit simplistic, seperate species can produce fertile offspring.


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## PhilK (Jul 12, 2007)

I didn't know that... Phew good hahaha


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## Frozenmouse (Jul 13, 2007)

is the huge biological difference between a woma and a carpet any smaller than the difference between a say mulga snake and a woma or a black snake and a carpet scary possibilities


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## cement (Jul 13, 2007)

I had no idea that Aspiditis was able to breed with morelia. That has just unlearned what i thought i knew about different species.
All in all, though as far as snakes go its not a bad looking unit.
Maybe he invitro fertilised it, testube method or grew it in a petrie dish!!


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## oxyranus (Aug 23, 2007)

nice snake though im not a fan of cross breeding.


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## dentech (Aug 23, 2007)

i think there great, i want one i want one, so yes they are a crime amount nature, but so are half the poeple in the world, and we cant sent them off to some god forsaken place can we ?????


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## dentech (Aug 23, 2007)

sorry should have been crime against nature, send me there 2 for my spelling n grammer


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## Midol (Aug 25, 2007)

Someone mentioned cross breeding dogs, that is generally bad for the dogs as those who cross breed are doing it for the money and do not carry out genetic testing, not to mention bone structures usually differ greatly.

I will not ever support cross breeding dogs and will give anyone who does it a mouthful. I do not respect it and I would drop friends instantly if they did it.


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## Midol (Aug 25, 2007)

stencorp69 said:


> ????? Think about what your saying? How do you think poodles came about as a breed? They didn't occur naturally in the wild.



Labradoodles are a dog filled with genetic flaws. It is irresonsible to breed them and just as irresponsible to buy them. If you buy them imo you are responsible for the suffering of hundreds of dogs which pump out these designer mutts. I find the act repulsive.

Go onto any true dog website and try and tell them designer dogs (crosses) are a good idea.


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## Midol (Aug 25, 2007)

S.D. said:


> Yeah I agree. The reason for most of these health problems and defects occurring in Purebred dogs is due to inbreeding allowed to occur by (us) humans. It’s a long cycle in most breeds to create a Purebred line of dogs and without going into too much detail, in most cases this was brought about by a lot of inbreeding. But by repeatedly breeding the best looking animal with it’s offspring and creating better looking animals with a greater frequency, not only are you getting the good looks being passed on to all the further generations of the line, but also the health problems contained within this dog at the time due to the aforementioned inbreeding and these problems will be further magnified by continuing to keep the bloodline of these animals as “pure”.
> So basically: a) the animal will have it’s own, sometimes unique health problem and/or defect and b) this health defect can not be bred out of the breed as this would break the Purebred line (therefore you’re basically breeding an animal with health problems and defects to and animal with health related problems and defects and making these problems worse essentially). For example Labradors are very prone to hip and skin problems, Jack Russell’s have a high degree of joint and eye related problems and Cocker Spaniels are prone to hip and ear infections which can become quite severe.
> What a lot of people fail to realise is that cross-breeding species is basically a means to overcoming the health related problems of Purebred dogs as not only will a cross “clean” the bloodlines so to speak of the particular breeds, but it also negates the particular health problems related to the particular species. A Labrador bred with a Poodle for example is much less like to experience hip joint and skin problems than a Purebred Labrador.
> Therefore I think you could argue that cross-breeding in dogs is actually beneficial and should not be compared to the situations occurring in snakes at all. “Mongrel” dogs have less health problems, they’re able to breed and like previously mentioned, did not occur naturally where as snakes do obviously. The only reason people want Purebred dogs is for looks, personality and basically the degree with which the looks and personality of the dog can be guaranteed to the owner. Here we have two types of different animals – Dogs, a domestic animal and Snakes, a non-domestic animal. You just can’t compare the two.




I take great offense to this post.

Cross breeding does NOT 'clean' the blood lines of pure dogs. Selective breeding and genetic testing does. 

Both a labrador and a poodle is prone to HP, how will crossing two dogs prone to the same issue help it?

The reason people want a purebred dog is for looks, a GAURANTEED personality, a HEALTH GAURANTEE (All reigstered purebred breeders MUST take back dogs if the owner can not keep them) and the GAURANTEE that they have been genetically tested and the test relevent to the dog carried out (like in labs, testing of the hips).

A crossbred dog will not have a gauranteed personality/temperment and you have no idea how it'll behave, how its coat will grow, whether it will be a decent dog for a family, whether it will be obedient.

Cross breeding in dogs is not beneficial and I find you trying to justify it disturbing, but let me guess, you either own a cross bred mutt or you breed them. I am involved in dog rescue and I have NEVER seen a purebred papered dog (If the dog lacks papers, it isn't pure).


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## mr black (Aug 28, 2007)

Midol said:


> I take great offense to this post.
> 
> Cross breeding does NOT 'clean' the blood lines of pure dogs. Selective breeding and genetic testing does.



I don't think you understand his post. When he refers to 'cleaning' a blood line, he is referring to diluting the gene pool with new genes to lower the frequency that the genes responsible for defects occur. As a result the chances your dog will have of developing unfavourable traits that were unintentionally line bred into the gene pool will be lowered. 

It is basically putting back some of those genes that breeders have selected out in the past because they didn't like them.

It is simple probability . Also I doubt too many breeders spend the money on genetic testing to ensure their breeding dogs don't pass on unfavourable inheritable conditions, and I doubt, but do not know as a fact, that the genes or sets of genes that cause some of these traits have actually been isolated and/or recognised, allowing for them to be screened for.

Also I apologise for continuing the 'off-topicness' of this thread


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## craigryan (Aug 28, 2007)

Those snakes should be euthanased, it is not there fault but the should not be available for commercial gain and a fine should be imposed to the breeder, we sholuld not be hybridising different species like this.


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## croc_hunter_penny (Aug 28, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> you know Im sure the owner would make alot more money if he breed pure womas!!!
> But that would be woma X bredli.....how would ya get a woma to breed with a bredli?!!



maybe they used a blindfold :lol:


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## bjbk18 (Aug 28, 2007)

Well done Mr Black you no your biology ive just been learning the same thing


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## mr black (Aug 28, 2007)

bjbk18 said:


> Well done Mr Black you no your biology ive just been learning the same thing


 
Well at least the Chemistry/Biology degree I am doing is not going to waste


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## Moreliaman (Sep 4, 2007)

Not in it for the money.........earns a living !!!!...........:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: 
Jeez i havent laughed that much since my mum slammed her tit in the car door !


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## SlothHead (Sep 4, 2007)

Moreliaman said:


> Not in it for the money.........earns a living !!!!...........:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> Jeez i havent laughed that much since my *mum slammed her tit in the car door *!



No picture no proof :lol::lol::lol:


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## mrmikk (Sep 4, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Viridae (Sep 7, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Please let it be sterile.



To be declared a distinct species in zoology, a species must not be able to produce fertile offspring with another species - ie a hinny or a mule. However given the discussion I have seen on this forum about interbreeding between species, I am not sure how well this rule holds up?

(Botanists work differently, the special boundaries are a little more blurred than that)


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## notechistiger (Mar 6, 2008)

I think it's a wonderful looking snake, and I wonder what it looks like now (three years later).

I'm probably going to be internet-flayed, but I have absolutely no problem with hybridising/intergrading, because it's where herp-culture is going to go. It'll be the same things with the dogs. The "pure" lines will start to have problems due to inbreeding, and eventually people won't be able to catch snakes from the wild to freshen up these "pure" lines.

Anyway, how can someone GUARANTEE their snake is pure? There is natural intergrading between snakes (most noteably, diamond x coastal crosses), and if someone was to capture one of these snakes from the wild and sell it to a breeder as "pure", then that goes that entire line. Who knows what all of your snakes are. It practically common knowledge that all four of the Antaresia species have been bred together. One of my friend's spotted looks EXACTLY like a stimsons, and he got it from a well known (one with positive remarks) breeder that SWORE it was a spotted. My point is that you can never be absolutely sure.

Hybridising/intergrading is another one of those emotional debates, like religion, cloning and stem-cell research. People are always going to have different point of views, and others are just going to have to accept this and get over it.


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## Minka (Mar 6, 2008)

Notechistiger... i was actually going to reply to your post...But then (Luckily) i realised only a fool argues with an idiot


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## Jungletrans (Mar 6, 2008)

Ok l admit it l have cross bred a coastal with a pitbull . l would post some pix but he ate the camera .


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