# Snake ID



## Djbowker (Jan 7, 2014)

Found in a CQ kitchen, on a local buy swap and sell page.
I think it's either a baby brown, or an orange nape snake.

Despite numerous calls from people that it's actually a BHP.


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Jan 7, 2014)

no expert but id say EB, either that or orange nape snake like you suggested.

black head- must be a black headed python ahhaahha


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## jase75 (Jan 7, 2014)

Its a juvenile Eastern Brown. There is so many experts out there, everything with a black head must be a bhp (-:

Sent from my XT925 using Tapatalk


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## Djbowker (Jan 7, 2014)

It was basically split three ways in the comments, a third said EB, third said nape snake, and then somehow, the other third said BHP.
Until I posted a photo of my BHPs.

Orange Nape and EB look very similar, especially without seeing the snake in person.


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## eipper (Jan 7, 2014)

Eastern brown snake Pseudonaja textilis.... Tell the other people to pull their heads in they have no idea


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## tickerbox (Jan 8, 2014)

Juvenile Eastern Brown snake. The eyes are larger than would be seen in a juvenile Orange Naped snake. The end of the snout would also be slightly more blunt and a little wider. That being said, it's easy to see how a dangerous mistake could be made. These snakes look very similar at this phase.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 9, 2014)

A definitive difference between them is the extent to which the black/dark head patch extends down the side of the head. In the Orange-naped snake it extends from the nostril backwards at the level of the bottom of the eye. In juvenile Brown Snakes, the dark head patch extends only to the level of the top of the eye, with a narrow bit extending down the side of the neck along the posterior edge of it. The eye is thinly encircled by small dark scales. This is continuous with the dark head patch. And to the best of my knowledge male and female Orange-naped look alike.


Blue


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## Djbowker (Jan 9, 2014)

I meant to say orange nape, not orange males haha.
Haven't edited it yet.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 9, 2014)

Sounds like your typing skills are on a par with mine. I have to type most everything in Word first and then cut and paste. And I still get things wrong...

Blue


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## Djbowker (Jan 9, 2014)

iPhone autocorrect hahaha, it gets the best of us.


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## eipper (Jan 9, 2014)

Furina are sexually dimorphic. Dark markings on Pseudonaja are variable. Very small snakes can loose all traces of dark markings in a couple of months while others take years. Usually in Pseudonaja the dark marking on the head and nape is bisected by a lighter band. In both Furina and Pseudonaja the dark markings can extend laterally on the head onto the supralabials. 

One of the easiest ways to spilt the two genera is that in Furina the ventral surface is immaculate while in Pseudonaja it is marked


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 10, 2014)

*Scott*, 
You know the rules as well as I do. The first sticky thread title for this forum is: “Please provide reasons for your ID’s.” There have also been numerous requests to the same effect. Yet you chose to do otherwise and then when someone else does an acceptable job you what use your superlative knowledge to try and discredit it. This I don’t understand. Would you prefer that I give you reasons here why the points you made are not valid, as applied in this particular ID, or would you prefer I do so by PM? 

I don’t mind being corrected when I have got it wrong but...

Blue


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## eipper (Jan 10, 2014)

All I did *Mike* was clarify what you had incorrectly stated. Unlike you I do not feel the the need to write an essay each time. I know what the rules are in regards to the id threads.... I was approached about it before it was on its own sub board. By all means I am happy for you to keep making id's, but you need to make sure the justification is correct too. Otherwise I will correct it. I will answer the way I wish..... If you have a problem with it, well I could careless. 


By all means you can attempt to discredit me..... I have captured and or handled all the species of both Furina and Pseudonaja. I have bred 4 sp of Pseudonaja. I kept 4 sp of Furina and 7 sp of Pseudonaja. Do you have more experience with these two genera than I.... I doubt it.


btw I have images that show each of the markers I have noted. You can argue with me but not the photos. 


You make the call Mike .....btw you should really cite your source if it's not your own work.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 10, 2014)

The use of eye-size and snout shape I consider to be unreliable. I initially considered linking to photos, such as the AROD titlepage for Furina ornata, to demonstrate this. Instead, I figured use of the term “definitive”, meaning definite and clear (not the same as “diagnostic”) would highlight the difference. It seemed your post was only directed at mine and clearly ignored this weaker prior post... “Why?” I asked myself. As a result I began my response petulantly. In the cold, hard light this is not acceptable. I genuinely apologise *Scott*. 

It would seem apparent that we are tackling separate issues. I was attempting to provide characteristics visible in the photo provided to validate a clear cut-out decision between F. ornata and P. textilis – nothing more! interpretation of my post.

It seems that you are providing diagnostic features to distinguishing between the two genera. You also incorporated the ontogenetic changes in young browns. For me, this is not relevant and Again I wondered why. Add to the fact you made no mention of ontogenetic changes and Furina. In the photo prvided the ventral surface was not visible so I deliberately omitted referring to, despite it being the best diagnostic tool. My descriptions of the extent of the head patches are my own. They are based on my collective experiences over time of personal observations of specimens and viewing photos in books and on the net. I have seen very few Furina in person. 

Being sexually dimorphic does mean that males and female can’t “look alike”. Snakes may be sexual dimorphic because different genders attain different total length, differ in adult body robustness or rate of tail taper, whether or not spurs are present etc. Such differences do not preclude an overall similarity in appearance i.e. look alike.

I hope that clarifies the situation mate,

Cheers,
Mike


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