# what venomous snakes can i keep?



## AshMan (Jan 14, 2011)

hey guys, i am fairly new to aus and i was just wondering if you guys could give me a list of the venomous snakes i can keep as a pet? im aware of certain elapids avaliable such as death adders but i am having trouble finding a list of all which are avaliable. also, can i keep venomous snakes on a normal recreational wildlife licence? and is there an age restriction on keeping venomous snakes? cheers guys


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## Pike01 (Jan 14, 2011)

You can keep any elapid, you need a restricted licence and have to be 18 I think
.


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## ozstriker (Jan 14, 2011)

Ive been looking into this also there seem to be lots of topics on the subject but no one willing to give up information,

Seriously can anyone give a straight forward answer on how to keep elapids i.e what courses you have to do then how to go about applying for a licence


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## thals (Jan 14, 2011)

You'll find that certain species and the application processes vary from state to state. Depending on where you live, contact your local wildlife licensing dept for more info or ask an experienced member from your area on here who keeps vens, am sure they'll be happy to point you in the right direction.

Cheers.


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## AshMan (Jan 14, 2011)

yeah, also alot of people used shortend versions of the names of the snakes and sometimes even just the first letters of the names for example RBB = red bellied black. this doesnt help me when im trying to find out what i can keep! and cheers thals! will look into it


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## hornet (Jan 14, 2011)

on your rec licence you can keep any elapid that is not classed as dangerous so your fine to keep things like marsh snakes, curl snakes, whip snakes etc on your rec permit. To keep anything like red belly's, browns, adders etc you will need to upgrade


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## najanaja (Jan 14, 2011)

you can not keep any on a rec licence...

as for what you can keep when you have the appropriate licence the list is long,,

tiger snakes,
brown snakes,
black snakes
taipans
death adders
rough scales
golden crowns
stepthens bandits

so on and so on...

to get this licence in QLD you must either do the appropriate course through a registered trainer so to speak, ( not sure if a certain rec licence period applies these days)
another approach is to get referances off these people if the personally (who already hold this licence) know your capabilities.


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## whyme (Jan 14, 2011)

ozstriker said:


> Ive been looking into this also there seem to be lots of topics on the subject but no one willing to give up information,
> 
> Seriously can anyone give a straight forward answer on how to keep elapids i.e what courses you have to do then how to go about applying for a licence


Get on the DEC website and You'll get all your info and your list of species. Aint that hard! How to keep and handle is a different story.


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 14, 2011)

why do you want a venomous snake?

Just wondering...


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## hornet (Jan 14, 2011)

najanaja said:


> you can not keep any on a rec licence...


 
not true, there are a number of species that can be kept on rec licence here in qld. I had another member here disagree with me on that so i got in contact with DERM and got the documents stating black and white that its only the dangerous species that need a specialist permit and nowhere does it say otherwise. If you wish i will put up the link to the legislation tomorrow if i can find it. I also have friends who keep elapids such as curl snakes, marsh snakes, bandy bandy's on a rec permit. I'm not sure if they want to chime in as they have been through this all before but i can assure you there is nothing that says that you cant keep the "safe" elapids on a rec permit


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## Dannyboi (Jan 14, 2011)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> why do you want a venomous snake?
> 
> Just wondering...


Why wouldn't you?


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 14, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Why wouldn't you?


 
I value my life.


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## hornet (Jan 14, 2011)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> why do you want a venomous snake?
> 
> Just wondering...


 
same reason why you want to keep pythons

---------- Post added 14-Jan-11 at 11:55 AM ----------




JoshuaAtherton said:


> I value my life.


 
and elapid keepers dont?


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## Dannyboi (Jan 14, 2011)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> I value my life.


With the proper training and skills along with the correct setups and experience there is not that much chance of getting bitten. Look at Steve Irwin he handled wild snakes that would have been terrified most of the time.


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## AshMan (Jan 14, 2011)

thanks everyone, you have been very helpful, and why wouldnt you want a venomous snake? the danger just adds to the thrill of observing these amazing animals! and hornet, do you know if what your saying about "safe elapids" also means you can purchase them under the age of 18?


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## Dannyboi (Jan 14, 2011)

In SA I know you can do the courses for vens under 18. I'm doing a course this year actually.


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 14, 2011)

Least I can show people, and let them handle them. (pythons)

Hey, I have a tiger snake but don't touch it.

Oh, I also had a red belly, but it got out...

Steve Irwin...

yeah, he may have... but he died by a stingray... 

one of the more placid creatures...

bad example.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 14, 2011)

Steve Irwin never got bit by a extremely venomous snake. 
People go to training courses or get trained up personally because they value their life. 

To the original poster. 
I know for a fact and like most people have said that you have to get some sort of training, wether it be personal or though a course to keep your deadly elapids. 

I've been told by different people about small non deadly elapids, so I don't know what to think. 
Although I would get some training anyway. You wouldn't keep them the same when it comes to husbandry.


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## cris (Jan 14, 2011)

hornet said:


> not true, there are a number of species that can be kept on rec licence here in qld. I had another member here disagree with me on that so i got in contact with DERM and got the documents stating black and white that its only the dangerous species that need a specialist permit and nowhere does it say otherwise. If you wish i will put up the link to the legislation tomorrow if i can find it. I also have friends who keep elapids such as curl snakes, marsh snakes, bandy bandy's on a rec permit. I'm not sure if they want to chime in as they have been through this all before but i can assure you there is nothing that says that you cant keep the "safe" elapids on a rec permit


 
While that seems to be what the law says some people at DERM (and others claiming to know) think all venomous snakes are restricted(pure BS), i have been told they are OK on a rec permit as many times as i have been told all venomous snakes require the expensive endorsed licence. Would be well worth getting some written approval if you want to keep less dangerous elapids on a recreational licence.

If you have a the expensive endorsed licence you can keep any native Elapids that are legally obtained. The only native venomous snakes you cant keep are sea snakes.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 14, 2011)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> Least I can show people, and let them handle them. (pythons)
> 
> Hey, I have a tiger snake but don't touch it.
> 
> ...


You ever been up close to a wild sting ray? there are stingrays that jump into boats and attack they aren't placid. Sting Rays set of drag like mad and well hang on a second






---------- Post added 14-Jan-11 at 10:46 PM ----------

Thats a mate that caught one just getting them onto the beach is hell trust me I have tried.


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## cris (Jan 14, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> You ever been up close to a wild sting ray? there are stingrays that jump into boats and attack they aren't placid. Sting Rays set of drag like mad and well hang on a second
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think if someone impaled me on a hook while trying to kill me i would be a bit aggitated too :lol: I reckon birds and snakes are better game with a fishing rod


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## Dannyboi (Jan 14, 2011)

It wasn't impailed untill it was on the sand. th gaff would have bent if it had to haul it in while swimming. hence me saying they are fighters


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## eipper (Jan 15, 2011)

back on topic here for a sec....for starters....there is number "harmless" that have caused big health concerns.....Small eyed Snakes, Little Whip Snakes and Black Whips have killed people and they were not regarded as deadly at the time of the bite.

Secondly you can keep a number of the apparently "Less Dangerous" elapids in QLD on a rec permit without endorsement

thirdly....There are more than 40 species of elapid and colubrid being kept privately with a further number of colour morphs and one offs ranging from Taipans to burrowing elapids

fourthly read up, ask questions and get experience before jumping in at the deep end....might be worth researching what these snakes can do before hand.....I do wonder if there would be the amount of elapid keepers around today if they knew what and how badly the effects of venom can have on the body, not just while in hospital but for years afterwards.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 15, 2011)

> fourthly read up, ask questions and get experience before jumping in at the deep end....might be worth researching what these snakes can do before hand.....I do wonder if there would be the amount of elapid keepers around today if they knew what and how badly the effects of venom can have on the body, not just while in hospital but for years afterwards.



Word. 
Was talking to a mate who's been bitten a few times to many. He has lost alot of feeling in his hands.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 15, 2011)

eipper said:


> back on topic here for a sec....for starters....there is number "harmless" that have caused big health concerns.....Small eyed Snakes, Little Whip Snakes and Black Whips have killed people and they were not regarded as deadly at the time of the bite.
> 
> Secondly you can keep a number of the apparently "Less Dangerous" elapids in QLD on a rec permit without endorsement
> 
> ...



People seem to think that if you 'survive' a bite from a dangerous snake, that all is well and things go back to how they were beforehand. Many times this is not the case - nerve damage, kidney damage and other debilitating side effects may be with you for life following a bite event. The chances of dying from a bite may be slim if proper action is taken at the time, but the prospect of life with half your sight, uncoordinated movement or even a shortened life because your kidneys don't work properly is not so great either.

Jamie


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## gillsy (Jan 15, 2011)

AshMan said:


> thand why wouldnt you want a venomous snake? the danger just adds to the *thrill of observing* these amazing animals!


 
That's a recipe for distaster if I have ever heard one, you shouldn't get a thrill out of an animal you handle correctly... can someone say drunken bite


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## cadwallader (Jan 15, 2011)

i can deffently see why keepers would want a elapid but i dont think mum would like a tiger in the house


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## stephen (Jan 15, 2011)

Gotta luv venz even when u pick em up & thay try taggin ur arm what a rush.


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## moosenoose (Jan 15, 2011)

I said for a few years prior to Irwins death that he wouldn't get taken out by a snake or a croc, all along though I said it'd be some kind of marine creature. Sadly he just looked out of his depth with them (no pun intended), but not with the critters he was really familiar with. Sometimes better the devil you know!


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## hornet (Jan 15, 2011)

eipper said:


> back on topic here for a sec....for starters....there is number "harmless" that have caused big health concerns.....Small eyed Snakes, Little Whip Snakes and Black Whips have killed people and they were not regarded as deadly at the time of the bite.


 
Small eyeds do require specialist endorsement but yes, black whip snakes which do pack a punch can be kept on a rec licence so people still need to do their research before going for something like that.

---------- Post added 14-Jan-11 at 10:59 PM ----------




AshMan said:


> thanks everyone, you have been very helpful, and why wouldnt you want a venomous snake? the danger just adds to the thrill of observing these amazing animals! and hornet, do you know if what your saying about "safe elapids" also means you can purchase them under the age of 18?


 
yes you could purchase an elapid as your first reptile in qld even if you were 13years old (not that most would considering the price, difficulty of feeding with most species and their lack of availability)


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## Snake-Supplies (Jan 15, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> You ever been up close to a wild sting ray? there are stingrays that jump into boats and attack they aren't placid. Sting Rays set of drag like mad and well hang on a second
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Let me put a hook in your mouth and see if you're placid...
yet, another bad example.

Don't get me wrong... I think adders are beautiful, but why would you wanna risk it?
for a thrill?

I get a thrill when I get a day off...
I get a thrill when my girlfriend comes over wearing no undies...

I don't need a kiss off death from something that could kill me easily for a thrill...

That's my view... 
=D

It's your choice, go for it if you wan't to do it.
Just don't yell at me when you can't move your arms or what not.


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## hornet (Jan 15, 2011)

do a bit of research, talk to ven keepers, there is very minimal risk if you dont be stupid with them. I keep funnelweb spiders, the deadliest spiders known on this planet, am i "risking it", no, i'm sensible with my interactions with these species and i house them appropriately. Same with elapids, be sensible and you will have no problems


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## crikey (Jan 15, 2011)

you have to relize the risks with owning vens i was doing a venomous course last year and one guy got taged by just one fang it only hang on for 1 sec and he ended up in hospital for a 4 days lost all tast in his mouth for the rest of his life dosent have much feeling in his arms and a number of other side affects. but vens are great snake and with propper training thay are just as easy to handle as a python only with a hook but you should always be ready to react in case it does try to bite you and get as much traing as possable be for you buy your first snake
i have asked my local vens snake catcher and keeper peter carter and he told me that it took him 7 years before npws approved him the license and he had to have a fraind with a vens licence that could come over if he was ever bitten to put the snake away and a number of other precautions that i cant remember


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## butters (Jan 15, 2011)

Its not so much that you can't keep dangerous species (elapids, whatever) on a rec permit it is more that you can't keep restricted species on a rec permit. Some of the species allowed to be kept on a rec permit could still be classed as dangerous. Myall's and Black Whips are classic examples. I would class a Lacie as dangerous too.

You can keep non restricted elapids on a recreational permit which in effect is anything not on the restricted list. If someone at epa says that you can't ask them to show you exactly where in the legislation it says that.
Invariably they will go to the clause relating to restricted species. This only applies to restricted species.

Many non restricted elapids though are not easy to keep being specialist feeders so aren't for everybody.
Best IME are yellow faced whips or marsh snakes here in Queensland as they can be trained to rodents and if not, are happy to eat AHG's of which there is an abundance.


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## najanaja (Jan 15, 2011)

hornet said:


> not true, there are a number of species that can be kept on rec licence here in qld. I had another member here disagree with me on that so i got in contact with DERM and got the documents stating black and white that its only the dangerous species that need a specialist permit and nowhere does it say otherwise. If you wish i will put up the link to the legislation tomorrow if i can find it. I also have friends who keep elapids such as curl snakes, marsh snakes, bandy bandy's on a rec permit. I'm not sure if they want to chime in as they have been through this all before but i can assure you there is nothing that says that you cant keep the "safe" elapids on a rec permit


 



yeah i know...

i ment any of these (as in the bad bite ones i listed),, just examples..

i meant with the appropriate licence,,like a rec,, the list is long, like whips, marshs and so on


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## AshMan (Jan 15, 2011)

gillsy said:


> That's a recipe for distaster if I have ever heard one, you shouldn't get a thrill out of an animal you handle correctly... can someone say drunken bite



keeping snakes is a thrilling expierience. i didnt mean an adrenaline rush, dangerous kind of thrill lol. and besides at this stage, im meerly researching, i would never even consider purchasing a dangerous animal without doing some kind of handling course first.


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## baxtor (Jan 15, 2011)

crikey said:


> you have to relize the risks with owning vens i was doing a venomous course last year and one guy got taged by just one fang it only hang on for 1 sec and he ended up in hospital for a 4 days lost all tast in his mouth for the rest of his life dosent have much feeling in his arms and a number of other side affects. but vens are great snake and with propper training thay are just as easy to handle as a python only with a hook but you should always be ready to react in case it does try to bite you and get as much traing as possable be for you buy your first snake
> i have asked my local vens snake catcher and keeper peter carter and he told me that it took him 7 years before npws approved him the license and he had to have a fraind with a vens licence that could come over if he was ever bitten to put the snake away and a number of other precautions that i cant remember



You can't really say he has lost taste for the rest of his life until the end of his life. It generally varies between not at all, short term and long term.


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## whyme (Jan 15, 2011)

JoshuaAtherton said:


> Let me put a hook in your mouth and see if you're placid...
> yet, another bad example.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I think adders are beautiful, but why would you wanna risk it?
> ...



Pal, I really think your looking at this all wrong!


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jan 15, 2011)

So who cares :S 
Let him look at it like that. More snakes for us. 
If he dosent feel comfortable with vens then I don't there for him, regardless of his "odd" way of thinking about it.


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## crikey (Jan 15, 2011)

well thats just what docs have siad and well he got prety crook after the bite so i belive what the docs are saying in this case
and now he is sue the guy that owns the snake. and i hate people that sign up for a course and know the risks involved and than when thay are bit go and sue the person that owned the snake if it was your own snake or a snake in the wild you cant go and sue your self its just people trying to get as much money as posable and during the course he told us he goes searching for browns at night bye him self and the place he told us he goes is a few ks out of town and than he tells us he doesent take a bandage so shows you how stupid some people really are


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## cris (Jan 15, 2011)

This is sort of relevant to the subject, does anyone have any footage of handling dangerous snakes in risky situations? I have never ever seen someone handling something like a brown snake or taipan in a tricky situation does anyone have any clips or even youtube of others doing this?

From everything i have heard being able to safely handle dangerous snakes is a myth, would anyone disagree with that (excluding shotties)?


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## stephen (Jan 15, 2011)

whyme,dont worry about it mate check out his avatar mate he's still playing with troll toys thats the only reason he cant handle venz mate & its most likely the same 4 his purple head python hahaha.


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## micksta9 (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow! this thread got a bit off couse horses for courses people, i will also add that venomous snakes are amazing especially the one's we have in Oz, keep them but also respect them. Can't see there being any problem then


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## baxtor (Jan 15, 2011)

crikey said:


> well thats just what docs have siad and well he got prety crook after the bite so i belive what the docs are saying in this case
> and now he is sue the guy that owns the snake. and i hate people that sign up for a course and know the risks involved and than when thay are bit go and sue the person that owned the snake if it was your own snake or a snake in the wild you cant go and sue your self its just people trying to get as much money as posable and during the course he told us he goes searching for browns at night bye him self and the place he told us he goes is a few ks out of town and than he tells us he doesent take a bandage so shows you how stupid some people really are



I can't imagine there was no disclaimer signed before undertaking the course


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## Australis (Jan 15, 2011)

Searching for browns at night isn't very productive. (yes, ive seen them at night)


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## cris (Jan 16, 2011)

Australis said:


> Searching for browns at night isn't very productive. (yes, ive seen them at night)


 
Would be safer than playing with them annoyed on a warm day, which is what i would love to see someone doing. I have seen redneck shows with pretty rough handling and stepping on them with complete protection, but never seen any competant snake handler in a tricky situation excpet when that guy got bitten by a taipan on 60 minutes posing for a show(not knocking him as he does good work there).

I have looked up snake handling on youtube and it was completely sad, without a doubt the best snake handler i found was Ray Hoser he could handle bites from dangerous species without a flinch, is there no one around with better snake handling videos than him?  (jokes etc.) but i would love to see some tricky elapid handling, none of that cobra crap either.


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## gillsy (Jan 16, 2011)

cris said:


> the best snake handler i found was Ray Hoser he could handle bites from dangerous species without a flinch, is there no one around with better snake handling videos than him?  (jokes etc.) but i would love to see some tricky elapid handling, none of that cobra crap either.


 
Without opening another can of worms, his are all venomoids.


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## hornet (Jan 16, 2011)

gillsy said:


> Without opening another can of worms, his are all venomoids.


 
note the sarcasm in that comment from cris lol


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## gillsy (Jan 16, 2011)

OH... I thought Cris should of known better .... 

It's far to early for me to get sarcasm.. and I haven't had my coffee


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## whyme (Jan 16, 2011)

It's pretty simple. If you wanna keep vens then keep 'em. If you don't, then don't make retarded comments to the people who do. If you do your homework, a course or two, and give the snake the respect it deserves, then there should'nt be a problem!


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## eipper (Jan 16, 2011)

depends on the species of brown australis......I have seen many aspidoryncha and mendgeni on roads at night

Cheers,
Scott


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## -Matt- (Jan 16, 2011)

eipper said:


> depends on the species of brown australis......I have seen many aspidoryncha and mendgeni on roads at night
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott



I have seen nuchalis crossing the road at midnight.


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## Radar (Jan 16, 2011)

Also depends if people are referring to Mulga's as 'King Browns', as they often do. Around here they are regularly found very early morning (3 or 4am) before the sun is up out on the roads. Admittedly I haven't found a few hundred like some on here but I have found more on the roads at this time than I have in 15 years of bushwalking and hunting in their habitat.


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## Bradchip (Jan 16, 2011)

Oh man...did someone just say that "Stingrays attack"

Just like those box jellyfish that attack people!


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## waruikazi (Jan 17, 2011)

cris said:


> Would be safer than playing with them annoyed on a warm day, which is what i would love to see someone doing. I have seen redneck shows with pretty rough handling and stepping on them with complete protection, but never seen any competant snake handler in a tricky situation excpet when that guy got bitten by a taipan on 60 minutes posing for a show(not knocking him as he does good work there).



You mean the ABC Foreign Correspondant story 'Dangerous Liaisons'? Was about the Papuan taipan with David Williams (Toxinologist on this forum).


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## AshMan (Jan 17, 2011)

Bradchip said:


> Oh man...did someone just say that "Stingrays attack"
> 
> Just like those box jellyfish that attack people!



Thankyou so much lol  its such a ridiculous myth that stingrays jump into boats and attack people, no animal would ever purposly maroon itself like that, its ridiculous.

---------- Post added 17-Jan-11 at 09:08 PM ----------

so, can someone tell me of a vens handling course for under 18's in QLD? preferable the brisbane area but im willing to travel to an extent lol! also, what kinda prices are we looking at for a vens handling course?


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