# Id please



## braids (Oct 29, 2011)

What is this one called?


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## mysnakesau (Oct 29, 2011)

Looks like one of them pretty ornaments you can get from gift shops to hang on walls.


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## Eddie2257 (Oct 29, 2011)

were did you find it?


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## Jeffa (Oct 29, 2011)

gecko.


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## gillsy (Oct 29, 2011)

keelback


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## braids (Oct 29, 2011)

Finley.. nsw


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## NaughtyByNature (Oct 29, 2011)

Maybe a Lesueur's Velvet Gecko, but I am no expert lol


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## dihsmaj (Oct 29, 2011)

Looks like a Bynoe's (but I'm most likely wrong)
Was gonna say Phyllurus sp. but the tail is too thin


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## Tsubakai (Oct 29, 2011)

That one I'm pretty sure is called 'Keith'


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## -Peter (Oct 29, 2011)

Bynoe's_ Heteronotia binoei_


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

Its pattern and shape are consistent with that of a Beaked Gecko (_Rhyncoedura ornata_), however its range is slightly further East than I would expect for one of those. I certainly is not a Bynoes Gecko, nor a Leseurs Velvet. 

Another option that could look similar to a Beaked Gecko is a species of _Lucasium_, however its pattern looks inconsistent with what I would expect from a Lucasium. Not that that picture is the best for ID.

I conclusion I am relatively happy but not entirely positive the gecko in question is a Beaked Gecko (_Rhyncoedura ornata_).


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 30, 2011)

Tessellated Gecko (_Diplodactylus tessellatus_). 

It makes it difficult, if not impossible, to give a positive ID on something when you have only one angle or aspect and it is out of focus. So that represents my best guess.

Blue


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## -Peter (Oct 30, 2011)

I'll stick with Bynoe's till someone can come up with something more likely. Tesselated, maybe but not beaked.


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## richoman_3 (Oct 30, 2011)

its not a bynoes


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

It is most definitely not a Bynoes and I find it extremely unlikely it is Tessellated or any Diplodactylus. I see no other Lucasium that it could be. 

Why do you say not Beaked?


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## snakeluvver (Oct 30, 2011)

I agree its definately not a bynoes.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh by the way if you can get good quality photographs including the whole body, a side on view the head and side on view of the whole body, I do believe we could confirm 100% what this is.


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## Wally (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't know what it is. 

What would be good is if people explain what they're basing their judgments on rather than just saying it's not ' that '.




> Oh by the way if you can get good quality photographs including the whole body, a side on view the head and side on view of the whole body, I do believe we could confirm 100% what this is.



Agreed.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

> What would be good is if people explain what they're basing their judgments on rather than just saying it's not ' that '.



Ok here are the relatively possible options. 

Bynoes Gecko- Almost always and especially in that part of the range maintains some form of banding, white splodges would not be oval shaped but more roughly edged, does not have smooth skin and general body shape is different.
Tessellated Gecko- Rather similar, tail is usually shorter and thicker, also has small raised scales on the end of tail (which would be past what is visible in this picture), pattern is usually rather bland made of several tones with little to none localized stand out patterning (such as large oval white blotches). It can however have smaller white flecks over parts of its body. Pattern is highly variable in this species, but you can go and look up some pictures this patterning is different. 
Lucasium byrnei- The only gecko in this area I am still considering. Casually patterning is similar to a Tessellated but can sometimes have larger splodges or areas of more prominent patterning. The head of this species is relatively rounder than other species listed here.
Rhyncoedura ornata- Range is well away from where this was found. However charecteristic patterning of this species is a series of large white blotches, with other various patterning over body. Head is fairly thin with a sharp beak like snout. Tail shape is very similar to pictured.


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## Mr.James (Oct 30, 2011)

Just a guess based on where it was found..marble gecko.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

> Just a guess based on where it was found..marble gecko.



Well you are in fact the first person in this entire thread to suggest a species the NSW Atlas of Wildlife lists as occurring in the broad area around Finley NSW. However the toe pads on this gecko are far far too small for it to be this species.


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## BrownHash (Oct 30, 2011)

I think its a Rhync. Its natural distribution isn't far enough away to rule out a slight range extension or an individual that has hitch-hiked.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 30, 2011)

> I think its a Rhync. Its natural distribution isn't far enough away to rule out a slight range extension or an individual that has hitch-hiked.



Exactly my thinking. Thank you for addition to the discussion.


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## Wally (Oct 30, 2011)

> Ok here are the relatively possible options.
> 
> Bynoes Gecko- Almost always and especially in that part of the range maintains some form of banding, white splodges would not be oval shaped but more roughly edged, does not have smooth skin and general body shape is different.
> Tessellated Gecko- Rather similar, tail is usually shorter and thicker, also has small raised scales on the end of tail (which would be past what is visible in this picture), pattern is usually rather bland made of several tones with little to none localized stand out patterning (such as large oval white blotches). It can however have smaller white flecks over parts of its body. Pattern is highly variable in this species, but you can go and look up some pictures this patterning is different.
> ...



Thanks.


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 30, 2011)

Braids,

Did you look at the ventral surface? If so, was it pure white or white with blotches of grey?

Blue



I certainly would not rule out _Rhynchodeura_ as a contender. It was in fact the first possibility that I selected. Only after re-considering the patterning and what I could see of the toe pads, plus distribution, did I opt for _Diplodactylus tessellatus_. The reality, in my opinion, is it could be either of the two species mentioned – flip of a coin! Even a photo showing all of the tail would allow me to make a firm call. Long tail = _R. ornatus_; shorttail = _D. tessellatus_.

I do not feel that _Lucasium byrnei _is not a contender as it lacks the rough banding normally apparent in that species. The distribution of _D. tessellatus_ covers the area in question while _L. byrnie_ is found further afield that _R. ornatus_ according to my references. 

Blue


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## braids (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry my mate found it while he was working down there. He said there were two. And they were soft as. I'll ask him if he remembers an more info.


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks,

Blue


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## -Peter (Oct 31, 2011)

I thought you were referring to Rhynchoedura. The Lucasium sp proposed has a dorsal stripe.

Which genus are you getting beaked gecko from, Rhyncoedura or Lucasium? Neither appear to be similar. Why do you discount Heternotia?


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 31, 2011)

Peter I am saying I think it is a _Rhyncoedure ornata_, which is a beaked gecko. I was also holding consideration a species of _Lucasium_ but Blue has discounted that. _Lucasium byrnei _does not in many cases have a dorsal stripe. 
I have put in an above post some of the reasons I rule out _Heteronotia_ but the first clue was that it looks absolutely nothing at all like this in the slightest.

Blue, the NSW Atlas of Wildlife shows _Lucasium byrnei _as occuring much much closer than _Rhyncoedura ornata_, but this may be incorrect. I do not feel I need to flip a coin either as I do not think the patterning on that gecko is at all consistent with Tessellateds and I think distribution aside if it looks exactly like a _Rhyncoedura_ and not much like a Tessellated, go with a _Rhyncoedura._


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Geckophotographer*,
I give your argument every credence. It has the lateral series of white or cream spots typical of Rhychs and the typically shorter, sharply rounded snout. (Oh for a side shot to see if it overlaps?) Given that the animals both felt soft and Tesellated Geckoes have that file like feel to the tail, I am given to wonder. 

According to the distribution information I have available, D. tessellatus extends into Victoria about mid-way along the NSW border. In the absence of further information I will stick with it could be either. Haven’t quite said I agree with you but am not far off it. LOL.

*Peter*,
I can appreciate why you would be thinking Bynoe’s gecko. They are very variable and sometimes you can a pattern of spots rather than short bands or strips. The area is in fact outside the know distribution. The snout of the Bynoe’s tends to be longer and sharper, the eyes protrude less and the digits are all long and thin. While the poor quality of the photo makes it difficult to assess individual attributes, I believe that if you take the above “en mass” you can discount Bynoe’s as a potential contender. Why I hate do IDs with crap photos!

Blue


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## njb432 (Nov 1, 2011)

Maybe some sort of marbled gecko?


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## richoman_3 (Nov 1, 2011)

njb432 said:


> Maybe some sort of marbled gecko?



no its not christinus or oedura


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## Beard (Nov 1, 2011)

Maybe its a plot by the Tajikistanian Government. It could have been planted in the hope that someone would find it, upload photo's on the internet thus creating an argument as to its species therefore bringing down the democracy of Australia.


Just a thought!


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 1, 2011)

If the safety of democracy rested on arguments over the internet, well APS would probably come out like a shiny ball of non-argument compared to some areas.


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## -Peter (Nov 1, 2011)

My plumping for Bynoe's is based only on the assumption that any ID attempt is fraut and speculative. The information given with the photo is subjective so should be discounted. Thus it is as valid as any other guess. I have collected specimen within 100k of Finlay. They are not striped or banded like the Qld form but have erratic spotting. That there are only a couple larger splotches and the reasons you stated I agree that ir isn't a Bynoe's
Based on the photo alone I cannot make an ID but I would venture that the specimen is not in prime condition. This coupled with the focus and no corroboration makes it impossible. As to this the use of common names, Rhyncoedura is known as beaded gecko and the Laucasium as beaked. Thus my initial question to GP.


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 1, 2011)

Peter the Greek root for nose is Rhyncos, thus the name Rhyncoedura is referring to the animals nose which is shaped similarly to a beak and the most commonly accepted common name for Rhyncoedura ornata is the Beaked Gecko, not Beaded. 

Lucasium damaeum is by some references called the Beaded Gecko.

If you wouldn't overly mind I would much like to see photos of those Bynoes specimens you collected from near this locality.


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## jordo (Nov 1, 2011)

Nice, a bit of debate 
For my opinion...
It's definitely not a Heteronotia. Although I'm with GeckoPhotographer, I'd love to see a photo of one like this 

It does have the typical pattern of a Rynchoedura, however the snout doesn't have the beak like look of a termite specialist (maybe it's just the angle and quality of the photo).

Another option that I don't think has been suggested yet is Lucasium byrnei. I've only seen one specimen but from what I know they're highly variable in pattern and can have large white blotches, the distribution also fits a bit better than a Ryncho.


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 1, 2011)

> Another option that I don't think has been suggested yet is Lucasium byrnei. I've only seen one specimen but from what I know they're highly variable in pattern and can have large white blotches, the distribution also fits a bit better than a Ryncho.



My mentioning of byrnei was that it was the one species other than Rhyncoedura I was still considering, Blue listed some reasons against it being this gecko, and I have accepted his reasoning and thus in my opinion the only option is Rhyncoedura. 

Personally I believe the angle of the photo contributes significantly to the look of it being beaked as I find this more appreciable from a side on view, but I agree that the snout seen in this gecko is not convincing. 

Peter has said the image does not provide many details but I am inclined to disagree. I believe it shows enough detail to strongly suggest against all the important species as strong contenders for this gecko, I.e. Heteronotia, Lucasium, Diplodactylus. In this way I apply Occam's Razor, that Rhyncoedura is the best and simplest fit to what we have been provided. If new evidence came to light I would happily re-evaluate my position.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi _*Peter*_, 
I understand the problem now. You have simply remembered them the wrong way around. _Lucasium damaeum_ is commonly known as the Beaded Gecko. _Rhynchoedura ornata_ is called the Beaked Gecko because it rostral scale juts out forward of the lower lip, looking a bit like the upper beak of a baby bird.

I agree that ID’s can be fraught with difficulty and crap photos certainly do not help. Any ID that lacks a clear view of needed diagnostic features is automatically problematic. The only reason I put down one species was that my second alternative had been offered already. I did, however, point out the shortcomings and therefore described it as “my best guess”. 

_Rhynchoedura ornata_ and _Diplodactylus tessellatus_ are both highly variable in colour and patterning across the full breadth of their range. Rather like _Heteronotia binoei_ in that respect. So any judgment made has to take that into account. The best you can do is eliminate possible contenders and hope you only have one left standing. This time around, for me at least, there are two and I can see arguments for both. So that is where it stops.

Cheers,
Blue

A couple of posts late - they were not there when I started lol.


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## jordo (Nov 1, 2011)

Sorry GP, I missed those few posts in the middle! Yeah it's a tough one, I'm not convinced either way.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi *GeckPhotogapher*,
If it makes you feel any better, if one ignores the distribution data I would definitely lean towards R.o. - that tail does look long and thin rather than terminating abruptly. As _*Peter*_ mentioned, however, the animal looks in poor condition, which is one of the factors I took into account when assessing the shape of the tail. 

Cheers,
Blue


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## -Peter (Nov 1, 2011)

GP, I do not own any photos of Bynoe's let alone many of any subject but a quick Google search will give several examples. Unfortunately they dont appear to be locality specific.

Truth is, I am not overly interested in taking photos, never have been. A failing I know.


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 1, 2011)

I've seen a lot of Bynoes, I just looked up some pics using google, I've seen Bynoes in places near Hay so not that far from there. All I saw in that google, all I have seen have banding to some degree, they don't just have spots.

If you could point me to a picture of a Bynoes with no banding I would appreciate it. (Although I admit I'd be surprised.)


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## gemrock2hot (Nov 1, 2011)

well i dunno what kind of gecko it is but looks like a boy to me


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 3, 2011)

Here’s a couple of Bynoe’s that are not particularly banded..
Bynoe's gecko | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Bynoe's gecko (Heteronotia binoei) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

It is definitely looking like a boy.

Blue


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## -Peter (Nov 3, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> I've seen a lot of Bynoes, I just looked up some pics using google, I've seen Bynoes in places near Hay so not that far from there. All I saw in that google, all I have seen have banding to some degree, they don't just have spots.
> 
> If you could point me to a picture of a Bynoes with no banding I would appreciate it. (Although I admit I'd be surprised.)



Look, I give up, ok. You win.


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## -Peter (Dec 13, 2011)

I found this old photo, the tail is obviously banded.


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## waruikazi (Dec 13, 2011)

Sure that's a bynoes peter? I didn't think they could climb. 

I've seen plenty bynoes without banding but.

This one was from Gapuwiyak in East Arnhem Land.





And this is from Oenpelli in West Arnhem.


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