# Handling a fiesty spotted python



## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Hi everyone,
this is my first post here so please forgive me for sounding like a twit 
Ive had my spotted caesar for just over a year now, he is around a year and 5 months old. 
i was very uneducated when i first bought him but since then have come along way. When i first got him he was like any other hatching and was just very defensive, so me thinking that this behavior was just this individual snake i stopped trying to handle him and just faced the fact that i was going to own a devils reincarnation in an enclosure in my room. its now been a couple of months since i grew up and started handling him, at first i was using gardening cloves just to build my confidence but id like to scrap those, i tried to handle him without and he squeezed my hand as if i was food and went very tense. is there any way to stop this? eg- getting bitten?? or am i destined to use gloves from now on ?


thanks guys!!


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## Snapped (Apr 6, 2018)

Darn it, just wrote out a big post and somehow deleted it.

So, welcome to the forum Chloe.
You don't sound like a twit, trust me. Asking questions is a good thing, everyone one is a beginner when they first start out (unless they've been watching someone else handling etc).

So, my advice is to get rid of the gloves. (I did use gloves when I got my first snake, but he was a fully grown 6ft Murray Darling and I was a complete beginner and a coward haha)

Most snakes restrict your hand/arm etc, firstly to feel secure, they don't want to fall off. Just let him glide through your hands, you need patience, he will soon relax if you put your other hand underneath so he can slither onto that one. A bite from a Spotted isn't going to hurt that much, just don't pull away. Most bites are defensive (quick hit and retreat) or food related, where they think your hand/arm is food and will bite and constrict. (best way to avoid that, is to wash your hands before handling with an antiseptic type handwash, one that's a bit stinky and never handle the snake if you've just patted the dog, prepared meat etc unless you've washed that yummy smell off)

Here's another thread which might be helpful https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/threads/first-time-owner-handling.218873/#post-2480581


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## Bl69aze (Apr 6, 2018)

Be a tree, become the tree. Snakes love trees.


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## Snapped (Apr 6, 2018)

Ah, found the video I was looking for, this has some great footage of handling the correct way/first time handlers etc.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

So I’ve tried to handle him today, twice. The first time he scrapped his jaw up against my palm to see if he could fit it in his mouth [emoji23] and then the second time he bit my thumb and went to coil. It is so hard to not react! But I’m getting better at it..thanks guys!!




Snapped said:


> Ah, found the video I was looking for, this has some great footage of handling the correct way/first time handlers etc.




So I should do the hand covering thing?? He is tense form the moment I pick him up till I put him down, so bring him close to me and put my hand over him??..how often a day do I do this?? If it goes badly do I leave him or try again?? 


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## SpottedPythons (Apr 6, 2018)

To get him used to it, try this method - make a sort of bowl with your hands, and make a little hollow in between. They like coiling into that, and it'll get him used to your scent.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> So I’ve tried to handle him today, twice. The first time he scrapped his jaw up against my palm to see if he could fit it in his mouth [emoji23] and then the second time he bit my thumb and went to coil. It is so hard to not react! But I’m getting better at it..thanks guys!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try not to smell edible, before necessary handling (I avoid handling my pythons unless absolutely necessary) I use a generous amount of hand sanitiser. Never once had a bite yet resembling a food response.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 6, 2018)

Could you be underfeeding him by chance and he’s hungry?

Pictures are always good and give a better understanding to people replying and knowing more about the animal


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

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chloe.j.f said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I definitely think he could go up a size, I’ll confirm the size of the mouse he is fed when I get home, I’m pretty sure it’s a hopper and he was fed on Saturday by my partner and then when I got home I fed him on Monday, he is well fed, other than that he is fed every Sunday/Saturday. He has just had a growth spurt too 


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Aussiepride83 said:


> Try not to smell edible, before necessary handling (I avoid handling my pythons unless absolutely necessary) I use a generous amount of hand sanitiser. Never once had a bite yet resembling a food response.



I had a layer of dishwashing soap on my hands [emoji31][emoji31]


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## Scutellatus (Apr 6, 2018)

The only smells that should cause issues are that of food. Rodents of course, but any meaty smells may also cause an issue.
You definitely don't need to use hand sanitiser!


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

He’s definitely mistaking me for food. Should I wait to handle him after his next feed or keep doing it throughout the week?? 


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## Scutellatus (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I definitely think he could go up a size, I’ll confirm the size of the mouse he is fed when I get home, I’m pretty sure it’s a hopper and he was fed on Saturday by my partner and then when I got home I fed him on Monday, he is well fed, other than that he is fed every Sunday/Saturday. He has just had a growth spurt too
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When you fed on Monday was there still a noticeable bulge from the Saturday feed?
If not you definitely want to go up a size or two.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> When you fed on Monday was there still a noticeable bulge from the Saturday feed?
> If not you definitely want to go up a size or two.



This photo was taken straight after feeding, is definitely say after the last feed I’ll size up but before that they were perfect for him, he’s just had a growth spurt.






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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> You definitely don't need to use hand sanitiser!


It doesn't hurt and whilst YOU may think it's not necessary, that's fine, I always use it prior to handling as it's simple, easy and effective.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Yeah, hoppers are too small for that spotted. Mine is currently on weaner Quackenbush super mice which are the size of adult fancy mice.
[doublepost=1523002425,1523002236][/doublepost]Do you keep your python on sand?? If that is sand, probably not the best idea.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

Snake snacks? Love it.
And I would recommend upsizing your food items. I would keep those hoppers for when you inevitably get another snake 
[doublepost=1523002478,1523002443][/doublepost]


Aussiepride83 said:


> Do you keep your python on sand?? If that is sand, probably not the best idea.


Why not? I assume the snake is fed on that container so it doesn't eat any sand.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Yeah, hoppers are too small for that spotted. Mine is currently on weaner Quackenbush super mice which are the size of adult fancy mice.
> [doublepost=1523002425,1523002236][/doublepost]Do you keep your python on sand?? If that is sand, probably not the best idea.



He is put into a container when it comes to feeding time, it’s shown in the photos above, it’s so he isn’t eating the sand.


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What should I size him up too?? 


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> He is put into a container when it comes to feeding time, it’s shown in the photos above, it’s so he isn’t eating the sand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Eating the sand isn't really the issue... it's an abrasive material, can get caught up in the cloaca, under the scales, etc. If your snake soaks in the water bowl than slides onto dry sand it'll be covered in it. I dunno, it's one of those much debated topics but it's generally deemed not ideal to use sand as a substrate for captive snakes.

Here's a little discussion on the topic.

https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/threads/sand-as-a-substrate.210411/
[doublepost=1523002992,1523002959][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> What should I size him up too??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Weaners at least.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Eating the sand isn't really the issue... it's an abrasive material, can get caught up in the cloaca, under the scales, etc. If your snake soaks in the water bowl than slides onto dry sand it'll be covered in it. I dunno, it's one of those much debated topics but it's generally deemed not ideal to use sand as a substrate for captive snakes.
> 
> Here's a little discussion on the topic.
> 
> ...



It’s definitely something I can’t afford to change now, but I will in the future, thank you  


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> It’s definitely something I can’t afford to change now, but I will in the future, thank you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Newspaper is cheap. My wife brings about 10 newspapers home a week from her work... I use it for my snakes, mice, bird cages... wonderful stuff.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Eating the sand isn't really the issue... it's an abrasive material, can get caught up in the cloaca, under the scales, etc. If your snake soaks in the water bowl than slides onto dry sand it'll be covered in it. I dunno, it's one of those much debated topics but it's generally deemed not ideal to use sand as a substrate for captive snakes.
> 
> Here's a little discussion on the topic.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, but I've had the same problem on some other particle substrates like Chipsi Bark.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Fair enough, but I've had the same problem on some other particle substrates like Chipsi Bark.


Mate I can't comment personally on either because I'd just never keep a snake on sand or anything it could swallow whilst eating (personal preference) it's just newspaper all the way for me once they graduate from paper towel. I'm not overly concerned with What it "looks" like. Looks and smells clean to me, I'm happy lol.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Mate I can't comment personally on either because I'd just never keep a snake on sand or anything it could swallow whilst eating (personal preference) it's just newspaper all the way for me once they graduate from paper towel. I'm not overly concerned with What it "looks" like. Looks and smells clean to me, I'm happy lol.


Fair enough, I personally wouldn't use sand for snakes though regardless.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Fair enough, I personally wouldn't use sand for snakes though regardless.


Agreed. Sand isn't for snakes in my book but is a must for turtles, River sand is the only suitable substrate for freshwater turtles.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Should I handle him in between now and his next feed? Which will be Sunday because I fed him on Monday. He seems hungry now as he is scaling the place looking for food ‍ 


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Aussiepride83 said:


> Agreed. Sand isn't for snakes in my book but is a must for turtles, River sand is the only suitable substrate for freshwater turtles.



I will definitely change it, it’s so hard when your a beginner in any hobby. So much misinformation spread around [emoji31]


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> Should I handle him in between now and his next feed? Which will be Sunday because I fed him on Monday. He seems hungry now as he is scaling the place looking for food ‍
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the purpose of handling? Because you want to?? Or??? Sorry, not having a go at you or anything, just wanting to know the point of it?? I don't handle at all, unless for a photo.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 6, 2018)

Do you know his weight by chance, should definitely be upped a size, my darwin is 200g on 60g rats, so whilst you don’t have to follow that ratio, it should give you an idea


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> What is the purpose of handling? Because you want to?? Or??? Sorry, not having a go at you or anything, just wanting to know the point of it?? I don't handle at all, unless for a photo.



Because I’d like too, I’d like him to feel comfortable. I know he will never be 100% because yes he is a snake but in the case of cleaning his tank, enclosure changes or any necessary handling. I’d prefer to get him used to it now than when he is fully grown..I’m trying to build my confidence aswell, getting used to getting bitten and just the handling of snakes


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Bl69aze said:


> Do you know his weight by chance, should definitely be upped a size, my darwin is 200g on 60g rats, so whilst you don’t have to follow that ratio, it should give you an idea



Ah I don’t know his weight as I don’t have any kitchen scales or anything I can weigh him with.[emoji21]


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Awesome, well that's fair enough. 
[doublepost=1523004433,1523004370][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> Ah I don’t know his weight as I don’t have any kitchen scales or anything I can weigh him with.[emoji21]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Weigh yourself on some accurate digital bathroom scales then weigh yourself again holding your snake. 
That's how I weigh my dogs. Works a treat.


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> Should I handle him in between now and his next feed? Which will be Sunday because I fed him on Monday. He seems hungry now as he is scaling the place looking for food ‍
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


the best time to handle is a couple of days after feeding or a couple of days before feeding.My routine is feed the snakes on Saturday and if possible handle Tuesday or Wednesday


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> the best time to handle is a couple of days after feeding and a couple of days before feeding.My routine is feed the snakes on Saturday and if possible handle Tuesday or Wednesday



Usually what I do  


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

And... avoid handling entirely if the snake is in the shed cycle. My Stimmy has been in shed for a week and a half now, eyes were blue on Tuesday and clear yesterday so must not be far off new PJ's now.


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## Stompsy (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> It’s definitely something I can’t afford to change now, but I will in the future, thank you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Woolworths Select recycled cat litter is fantastic substrate for snakes. The big 21litre bag is $15 and depending on the enclosure size, should give you a couple of refills. I find it great for spot cleaning between full cleans also.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> Woolworths Select recycled cat litter is fantastic substrate for snakes. The big 21litre bag is $15 and depending on the enclosure size, should give you a couple of refills. I find it great for spot cleaning between full cleans also.



I know this sounds dumb but are there any nicer looking options?? 


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I know this sounds dumb but are there any nicer looking options??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I'm not a fan of that stuff either, whilst it may be practical, doesn't float my boat.


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## Stompsy (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I know this sounds dumb but are there any nicer looking options??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol not dumb at all. I used to use euci mulch from Bunnings. They sell big bags of the stuff fairly cheap, however it does get dusty... but it’s a good alternative it the more expensive critters crumble. 

The snake really won’t care what his substrate looks like though!


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> Lol not dumb at all. I used to use euci mulch from Bunnings. They sell big bags of the stuff fairly cheap, however it does get dusty... but it’s a good alternative it the more expensive critters crumble.
> 
> The snake really won’t care what his substrate looks like though!



I’ll check it out, thanks! 


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## Stompsy (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I’ll check it out, thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem. Good luck with the handling!


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> It’s definitely something I can’t afford to change now, but I will in the future, thank you
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


can't afford is an easy excuse but not acceptable,you have been told sand is not a natural substrate for snakes ( good for dragons though),sure they come across it in the wild but are not forced to live on it full time.I don't like newspaper but it will do, I don't like kitty litter but it will do,these are cheap options that you could use while you have no money.Your snakes health is more important than anything else.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

dragonlover1 said:


> can't afford is an easy excuse but not acceptable,you have been told sand is not a natural substrate for snakes ( good for dragons though),sure they come across it in the wild but are not forced to live on it full time.I don't like newspaper but it will do, I don't like kitty litter but it will do,these are cheap options that you you could use while you have no money.Your snakes health is more important than anything than anything else.


Just for the record though, I know people who keep some species such as BHPs and womas on sand without issue (with adequate climbing space). 
I'm probably just gonna stay out of the sand debate.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 6, 2018)

I use Kritter crumble fine, looks good, absorbsant, easy to clean etc.

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with sand as long as they have enough climbing material to stay off it if they so desire.
I’ve seen the arguments for and against. However, there are better options + sand gets EVERYWHERE


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

Hehe... anything would be fine as a substrate if there is enough climbing material to stay off of it... even hot Coals. Lol


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## GBWhite (Apr 6, 2018)

Hi.

First off you don't need to wash your hands with any sort of sanitizer. I know plenty of people who, like myself have been handling snakes for over 50 years and never used the stuff and never had any issues. Unless you have a snake in quarantine the sanitizer doesn't serve any real useful purpose and a warm water wash is fine (soap is optional) as this will be enough to remove any scent left from any meat or snacks with meat flavouring (especially anything with chicken flavouring added) that you may have handled during the day. Try getting it out with a snake hook and placing it on your hand. Don't grab the snake as this will encourage a defencive reaction and result in a bite. Once out just let it move through your fingers and hand and up and down your arm as it feels fit. When you have both had enough then gently lift it off without grabbing it and place it back in the enclosure. Looking at the size of those mice there's also a very good chance that it's hungry and if you want you can feed it 2 or 3 of those sized mice in the one hit so you don't waist them then up the size to large adult once they're all gone. Another thing to think about is if your handling it when it's hot and you might find you'll have better success handling it before it warms up. Remember that they don't really like being handled and they don't connect with the keeper like pets such as dogs and cats. Some come around to accept it and others don't.

George.


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

I echo what GBWhite said.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Hehe... anything would be fine as a substrate if there is enough climbing material to stay off of it... even hot Coals. Lol











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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

The sanitiser just neutralises all scents that a snake may find tempting. I don't use it to "protect" the snake or myself from the 99.9% of germs it allegedly kills, the sanitiser is quicker and easier than washing hands and works. No it's not essential or necessary but it works.

I don't have a hand basin in my reptile room where my mice and birds also are... if I'm busy down there, I'm not racing upstairs every 3 mins to wash my hands... I have hand sanitiser stations around the house everywhere. Very handy for the snakes.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

GBWhite said:


> Hi.
> 
> First off you don't need to wash your hands with any sort of sanitizer. I know plenty of people who, like myself have been handling snakes for over 50 years and never used the stuff and never had any issues. Unless you have a snake in quarantine the sanitizer doesn't serve any real useful purpose and a warm water wash is fine (soap is optional) as this will be enough to remove any scent left from and meat or snacks with meat flavouring (especially anything with chicken flavouring added) that you may have handled during the day. Try getting it out with a snake hook and placing it on your hand. Don't grab the snake as this will encourage a defencive reaction and result in a bite. Once out just let it move through your fingers and hand and up and down your arm as it feels fit. When you have both had enough then gently lift it off without grabbing it and place it back in the enclosure. Looking at the size of those mice there's also a very good chance that it's hungry and if you want you can feed it 2 or 3 of those sized mice in the one hit so you don't waist them then up the size to large adult once they're all gone. Another thing to think about is if your handling it when it's hot and you might find you'll have better success handling it before it warms up. Remember that they don't really like being handled and they don't connect with the keeper like pets such as dogs and cats. Some come around to accept it and others don't.
> 
> George.



Thank you!!


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## Bl69aze (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> The sanitiser just neutralises all scents that a snake may find tempting. I don't use it to "protect" the snake or myself from the 99.9% of germs it allegedly kills, the sanitiser is quicker and easier than washing hands and works. No it's not essential or necessary but it works.


Could also say the alcohol hand sanitiser harms the snake I guess


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> I use Kritter crumble fine, looks good, absorbsant, easy to clean etc.
> 
> Personally I don’t see anything wrong with sand as long as they have enough climbing material to stay off it if they so desire.
> I’ve seen the arguments for and against. However, there are better options + sand gets EVERYWHERE



I’ll be walking the street in the morning to find some newspapers 


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I’ll be walking the street in the morning to find some newspapers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Homeless people will fight you for it so be careful.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Homeless people will fight you for it so be careful.



Damn better take my boomerang 


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> Damn better take my boomerang
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No need, just bring the snake, that should scare them off. 
Actually don't its illegal


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

What about Astro turf?? 


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## vampstorso (Apr 6, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> Could also say the alcohol hand sanitiser harms the snake I guess



Sorry for the bluntness in asking... But what do you mean? 

As an example, alcohol gel is now considered the gold standard in health care for non visibly soiled hands, and evaporates completely in seconds (I know human healthcare is somewhat irrelevant).
It won't harm the snake, but isn't a requirement either. 





I'm glad it was mentioned to just feed multiple smaller items above, that's what I've always done. Only an issue if you get a painful snake who won't eat more than one/freaks out if you try putting the second one in its mouth as it finishes the first one to alleviate it not taking it on its own. I've only had one like that...most will happily eat more. 



Wouldn't be too worried about the sand, personally. 
You could mix it with a coir/Coco peat block, just make sure there's no added fertilizer. I get mine from cheap as chips...much cheaper than Bunnings. 
I only suggest this if the sand now makes you anxious or lack of humidity is an issue. It's also cheap.


Another consideration is do not hover over or hesitate about picking the snake up. 


When you say it was rubbing it's jaw over you to size you up, what makes you say that? 
Did it go to open its mouth or anything? They don't really size up pray until it's dead, since they ambush. 

Also sometimes we forget a healthy snake is solid muscle, so holding on to you can feel a bit more "aggressive" than it is, if that makes sense. 



Apologies for spelling errors and lack of tact in this post, I am getting a baby to sleep lol. 

I mean everything in a friendly manner, just rushing. 


Goodluck


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

vampstorso said:


> Sorry for the bluntness in asking... But what do you mean?
> 
> As an example, alcohol gel is now considered the gold standard in health care for non visibly soiled hands, and evaporates completely in seconds (I know human healthcare is somewhat irrelevant).
> It won't harm the snake, but isn't a requirement either.
> ...




I’ll just stick to washing my hands with soap as I have a dog and a cat I pet regularly so just incase.

I was going to feed multiple as there is no point keeping hoppers in the freezer if I only have two snakes that eat them?? They will both be getting a size up so may aswell feed the rest right? 

I’ve found some spare Astro turf in the garage that I’ll be changing it over too  

He literally scrapped his mouth against my palm, opened it and bit there, not just scrapping his jaw if you get me?? It’s so hard to explain hahah

Ah definitely, always something I repeat to myself.

Thanks![emoji16]





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## dragonlover1 (Apr 6, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> What about Astro turf??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Astro turf is used by a lot of people but once again I am not a fan,my snakes have a somewhat natural substrate.I use chipsi mixed with leaves etc plus fake plants
[doublepost=1523013957,1523013630][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> I’ll just stick to washing my hands with soap as I have a dog and a cat I pet regularly so just incase.
> 
> I was going to feed multiple as there is no point keeping hoppers in the freezer if I only have two snakes that eat them?? They will both be getting a size up so may aswell feed the rest right?
> 
> ...


I usually just wash my hands under the tap when feeding to remove the smell of mouse to avoid snapping .
there is no problem feeding a few small items instead of 1 big item.It solves many problems when you have multiple reptiles of different sizes who might refuse a feed


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## SpottedPythons (Apr 6, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Just for the record though, I know people who keep some species such as BHPs and womas on sand without issue (with adequate climbing space).
> I'm probably just gonna stay out of the sand debate.


Well, BHPs and Womas are desert dwelling species. Anyway, I'd just also like to say that sand is probably not the best for spotteds. Even if it looks ugly, the animal's health comes first.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

SpottedPythons said:


> Well, BHPs and Womas are desert dwelling species. Anyway, I'd just also like to say that sand is probably not the best for spotteds. Even if it looks ugly, the animal's health comes first.



Of course


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## Foozil (Apr 6, 2018)

SpottedPythons said:


> Well, BHPs and Womas are desert dwelling species. Anyway, I'd just also like to say that sand is probably not the best for spotteds. Even if it looks ugly, the animal's health comes first.


Exactly my point


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 6, 2018)

Some excellent advice has been offered already and I echo George's comments.
To reiterate...........Gloves, NO. dangerous to the animal. (Teeth get pulled out if the get stuck in the gloves and can lead to a transfer of bacteria)

Sand......NO. Not a good thing from a cleanliness perspective. (There are probably comments regarding impaction from sand also) It doesn't absorb waste so bacteria grows/thrives in that environment. Might not be pretty but the best forms of substrate are the simplest, newspaper or kitty litter. There are some good commercial products out there such as chipsi, (Astro turf is ok but not one I would suggest)

The biting you describe has been identified as hunger so as has been suggested feed multiple items instead of one.
If the animal is afraid it will bite in defense, the only way to combat this is to demonstrate to the animal that there is no need to be afraid of you. Make each interaction a positive one and eventually, if fed sufficiently it will not demonstrate fear/aggression towards you.

Some of the best advice given is the 'need' to handle the animal. It gets no enjoyment from interaction with you but if treated appropriately it will allow you to handle it though handling should not be excessive just because it pleases you. If you want to handle snakes more than 5-10 minutes a day best thing to do is go buy more of them lol.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 6, 2018)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Some excellent advice has been offered already and I echo George's comments.
> To reiterate...........Gloves, NO. dangerous to the animal. (Teeth get pulled out if the get stuck in the gloves and can lead to a transfer of bacteria)
> 
> Sand......NO. Not a good thing from a cleanliness perspective. (There are probably comments regarding impaction from sand also) It doesn't absorb waste so bacteria grows/thrives in that environment. Might not be pretty but the best forms of substrate are the simplest, newspaper or kitty litter. There are some good commercial products out there such as chipsi, (Astro turf is ok but not one I would suggest)
> ...



Thanks!


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 7, 2018)

Astro turf isn't something I'd use with snakes either. It's a material often debated about in the freshwater turtle scene too when people are chasing an aesthetically pleasing material to use over the dry-docking areas of an enclosure... Instead, we steer people towards marine carpet as it doesn't fall apart like astro turf does. We recently had a case where a keeper's turtle had to be taken to a vet to have several pieces of astro turf removed from its throat. The small pieces that come away are like fine needles and they will get lodged in places you don't want them too. Marine carpet would be a safer alternative but again... I imagine it would be a nightmare to clean snake poop off of, taking it outside multiple times/per week to pressure hose off and then let dry.

As I asked/mentioned earlier... I do understand your "wanting" to handle your snake but from the snake's point of view, it's not something it wants from you. I take satisfactory enjoyment from just observing my reptile and invert pets.
[doublepost=1523041479,1523040779][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi again, I just saw this photo... If that lamp, the purple one, is a heat emitting lamp... it looks like your snake could quite easily access that simply by climbing up on the branches/plants/vines and onto it?? That would be a burn hazard/risk. I personally don't use any heat lamps with snakes but rather heat cords under the enclosure to create a hot spot, no risk of burning. This is also another benefit of just using newspaper as a substrate, the heat transfer isn't affected. You couldn't effectively use under-tank heating with such a thick layer of sand. 

Not saying you shouldn't be using the lamp, but perhaps put one of those mesh cage fittings around it to stop the snake from being able to touch the bulb.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 7, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Astro turf isn't something I'd use with snakes either. It's a material often debated about in the freshwater turtle scene too when people are chasing an aesthetically pleasing material to use over the dry-docking areas of an enclosure... Instead, we steer people towards marine carpet as it doesn't fall apart like astro turf does. We recently had a case where a keeper's turtle had to be taken to a vet to have several pieces of astro turf removed from its throat. The small pieces that come away are like fine needles and they will get lodged in places you don't want them too. Marine carpet would be a safer alternative but again... I imagine it would be a nightmare to clean snake poop off of, taking it outside multiple times/per week to pressure hose off and then let dry.
> 
> As I asked/mentioned earlier... I do understand your "wanting" to handle your snake but from the snake's point of view, it's not something it wants from you. I take satisfactory enjoyment from just observing my reptile and invert pets.
> [doublepost=1523041479,1523040779][/doublepost]
> ...



He has never once gone near the light and it’s been months now, that is something I’ll do, thanks 


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## Bl69aze (Apr 7, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> He has never once gone near the light and it’s been months now, that is something I’ll do, thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Better safe then sorry, if he does touch it, he will be in for a world of pain, also make sure to get very tight mesh, a person on fb had a problem that their snake squeezed through the gap and burnt to a crisp pretty much


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 7, 2018)

Better for now 


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## Snapped (Apr 7, 2018)

Some great advice from all.
Agree with upping the food size, a hungry snake is a snappy snake.
After the food issue is sorted, and he's quite satisfied on that size food, I'd just handle him every 2nd day, 5 minutes or so, make it a safe, calm experience (remove cats/dogs and other distractions). I always wait 24-48 hours after a feed to handle, and I don't handle my snakes while coming up to a shed (this is a personal preference but I find it best to leave them alone once their eyes have turned milky color).
What sort of temps are you getting in the hot and cool end, you said you don't see him basking under the lamp? (the heat cage is a must, a burn is very serious)
As for the substrate, yeah, the sand isn't great, you could always use newspaper until you find/can afford to change it to something more visually appealing to you. Kritters crumble or Aspen bedding look good, and from what I've heard is easy to clean/keeps down smells etc... less natural looking but still good is Breeders choice Kitty Litter....me, I just use Newspaper, but I've got lots of hanging vines/fake hanging plants that make the enclosure look nice anyway, and its great for easy cleaning.
Here's a link to some of the substrates mentioned https://www.mypetwarehouse.com.au/reptile-substrate
and a thread discussing various substrates with some pics of the Kritters crumble https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/threads/substrate-for-carpet-pythons.219462/


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 7, 2018)

One happy boy!


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So what size rat do you recommend he goes up to? He is on hopper mice right now, this is him 8 hours after 2 hoppers 


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## Bl69aze (Apr 7, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> So what size rat do you recommend he goes up to? He is on hopper mice right now, this is him 8 hours after 2 hoppers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Large rat pups (inbetween fuzzy and weaner should be good


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## Scutellatus (Apr 7, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> Large rat pups (inbetween fuzzy and weaner should be good


@Bl69aze That is what a hopper is, in between fuzzy and weaner.

Go for weaners and up the size after a ten pack or two.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 7, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> @Bl69aze That is what a hopper is, in between fuzzy and weaner.
> 
> Go for weaners and up the size after a ten pack or two.



Thanks!


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## Bl69aze (Apr 7, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> @Bl69aze That is what a hopper is, in between fuzzy and weaner.
> 
> Go for weaners and up the size after a ten pack or two.


its just a thing ive been taught, theres mice hoppers and rat pups


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 8, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> its just a thing I've been taught, there's mice hoppers and rat pups


Guess it depends where you shop, I've seen "hopper rats" in plenty of stores. 

Example.





That Spotted could easily take weaner Quackenbush super mice or adult standard mice and _I think_ the equivalent of those would be a large fuzzy to hopper rats.


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## Mick666 (Apr 9, 2018)

I don't think anyone has mentioned the time of day when handling pythons. I don't even think about getting mine out at night time, that's when they are thinking about food. even early morning can be a problem. I reached into my bredli girls enclosure to clean one morning and she smashed my hand and wrapped it up, as i tried to unwrap her she coiled around my other hand. I tried to put her mouth under a running tap but she was too big so I couldn't reach the water. luckily my daughter was up so i asked her to pour some water on the snake, but she was freaking out and could only manage a few drops, which made Rosetta adjust her grip, ouch. so i had to wake up my wife to pour water on it. She finally let go and I barely made it to work on time. Ever since my thumb has been clicking when i bend it, I think she put the knuckle out of place.


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## bluedragon (Apr 12, 2018)

I cant wait to get my spotted python

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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 12, 2018)

bluedragon said:


> I cant wait to get my spotted python
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


They're awesome.


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## bluedragon (Apr 12, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> They're awesome.


They said its a bannana blonde or something i don know











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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 12, 2018)

Blonde-phase. Same as mine.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 12, 2018)

This was Caesar after 2 hoppers 

Is he just a regular spotted??


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## bluedragon (Apr 12, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> This was Caesar after 2 hoppers
> 
> Is he just a regular spotted??
> 
> ...


Yep


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Finally got him i will try and put pics up of him but this is his setup





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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 14, 2018)

bluedragon said:


> Finally got him i will try and put pics up of him but this is his setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you using for a heat source?


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## bluedragon (Apr 14, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> What are you using for a heat source?


Mat

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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2018)

Mick666 said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned the time of day when handling pythons. I don't even think about getting mine out at night time, that's when they are thinking about food. even early morning can be a problem.



Sorry Mick but I tend to disagree.
If I have time set aside to clean enclosures or feed or change water dishes at 8am or 10pm then thats when it's happening. If you only feed/handle at a specific time of day then you are opening a whole new can of worms. Feeding & handling, (as all activities) should be at varied times/days so there is no expectation of feeding when the enclosure is opened at any time of day or night. 
We all lead busy lives and dealing with our reptile duties needs to happen when we have time available/when its required, not in line with our little tetchy animal dictating when its going to happen.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 14, 2018)

bluedragon said:


> Finally got him i will try and put pics up of him but this is his setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is this your first snake?? I’d suggest using a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat mat, make sure you are using a thermostat as heat mats get quite hot, here’s a photo I have of a snake that got burnt by one






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## Bl69aze (Apr 14, 2018)

That looks like a direct contact burn  did u have heat mat inside or out


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 14, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> That looks like a direct contact burn  did u have heat mat inside or out



Isn’t my photo  


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## Bl69aze (Apr 14, 2018)

Ah, looks more like it wrapped around a globe or che to be honest


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## bluedragon (Apr 14, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> Is this your first snake?? I’d suggest using a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat mat, make sure you are using a thermostat as heat mats get quite hot, here’s a photo I have of a snake that got burnt by one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Na this is my second snake so yea they have had the heat under for 3 years hasnt got burnt but yea i know im experienced more in snakes than lizards 

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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> I’d suggest using a ceramic heat emitter instead of a heat mat



I personally don't like either.
CHE's get extremely hot and should always be used with a cage. Add the fact that people tend to use oversized CHEs for the enclosure and they end up being on a very short period of time but very, very hot.
There are many low quality heat mats now in the market from China. And heat mats are often set up incorrectly by inexperienced people. 

Everyone screams about using a thermostat but they are not 100% neccesary unless you have an oversized heat source. I use globes in many of mine, sized to give the temp I want when they are on all the time. Only reason for a thermostat on that set up is to keep the lights off on hot days.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 14, 2018)

I wouldn't use a heat emitter. A hot spot created by a heat cord is plenty rather than using a heat emitter which is going to heat all the air in that enclosure (which is unnecessary).

I also would not use a thermostat but rather a heat cord on a timer. I don't use a thermostat for my snakes at all, the only thermostats in use are on my reptile egg incubators.


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## GhoulGecko (Apr 14, 2018)

Yeah me either. Ruff.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 14, 2018)

Hmm okay


So much information it’s hard to know what is right these days [emoji28]


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> o much information it’s hard to know what is right these days



And often the advice you receive will be conflicting which can make things even more difficult Chloe. 
I can only say that you look at all the options and listen to all the advice then make your own decision on what is best for you. (Ideally its wise to have a back up plan)

Research is always your friend, if you can find someone local who can mentor you and demonstrate/explain the reasons they do things the way they do even better. There are many ways to achieve your goal but some are less predictable/reliable than others but nothing is fool proof.


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## bluedragon (Apr 14, 2018)

Here he is sayto it means snake in another langauge whats with the yellow and orange scales apparently it banana














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## Mick666 (Apr 16, 2018)

If they crap in the water dish and it needs changing, i'll change whatever time of day it needs to be changed. but i'm not going to try to handle my jungle girl when she's snapping at the glass, I wasn't saying get them into a routine. I'm just saying they are nocturnal, they naturally hunt at night. I'm also new to this so I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, especially if i'm learning something.


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 23, 2018)

. He demolished a weaner rat!! Crazy. Mind the poo I need to clean it up  


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## Bl69aze (Apr 23, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> . He demolished a weaner rat!! Crazy. Mind the poo I need to clean it up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did u feed both of those rats?


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 23, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> Did u feed both of those rats?



Just one, I have 2 snakes 


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## Bl69aze (Apr 23, 2018)

chloe.j.f said:


> Just one, I have 2 snakes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ooh ok, was going to say there could be problems refreshing a freshly defrosted rat.

Any idea on how much they weighed?


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## chloe.j.f (Apr 23, 2018)

Bl69aze said:


> Ooh ok, was going to say there could be problems refreshing a freshly defrosted rat.
> 
> Any idea on how much they weighed?



It said it on the bag, 45g I think.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Apr 23, 2018)

Yeah... you don't think they can possibly do it when you look at the size of their heads and that's why inexperienced people always underestimate their capabilities and feed their pythons rodents that are too small.

Looks like all's going good.


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