# Pure Gosford Diamond



## SnakeRanch (Apr 5, 2013)

Pure Gosford locale Diamond Python with its next brightest sibling. 

What will it look like when it matures?


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 5, 2013)

my god, thats amazing!!!


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## bohdi13 (Apr 5, 2013)

Wow, looks amazing. Is it hypomelanistic?


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## Barrett (Apr 5, 2013)

Just saw your photo on facebook. That is one amazing snake, you get all the best!


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## Albino93 (Apr 5, 2013)

Wow, now thats something u dont see everyday.
Would love to see how this little one turns out.


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## spongebob (Apr 5, 2013)

Not bad. Not bad at all. Got to be pleased with that one


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## Norm (Apr 5, 2013)

Very interesting, especially for a diamond lover!


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## JezJez (Apr 5, 2013)

That is going to be an amazing looking animal in years to come! Very impressive.


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## Reptilefreak95 (Apr 5, 2013)

wow wee!!


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## Shiresnakes (Apr 5, 2013)

stunning indeed, congrats!


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## Bananapeel (Apr 5, 2013)

Been admiring it ever since I saw the FB post. Still can't get over it!


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## Cougar2007 (Apr 6, 2013)

Wow, what a beautiful animal. God I love diamonds


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## benjamind2010 (Apr 6, 2013)

Looks like it has reduced black pigmentation, or hypomelanistic. I hope this one becomes an adult and is able to breed for you. This one will be a stunner!


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## FAY (Apr 6, 2013)

Very, very nice. Be very interesting how this turns out.


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## Umbral (Apr 6, 2013)

Wow that looks amazing!! You must be over the moon!


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## Hamalicious (Apr 6, 2013)

Whats with the patterns? Doesnt look like a diamond.


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## borntobnude (Apr 6, 2013)

Hamalicious said:


> Whats with the patterns? Doesnt look like a diamond.



Wow what a cool looking snake !!

It does have coastal carpet type markings , but not being expert??? 
Is it a throwback from a natural intergrade? or is gosford to far south for that type of thing to happen ?

I know its from the net so i am not %100 sure but this one is a coastal carpet I am just interested and confused .


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## Smithers (Apr 6, 2013)

Insane, Grats interesting to see what it produces in yrs to come.


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## Bushman (Apr 6, 2013)

That's an interesting specimen. Can you post up some pics of the parents?


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## emmalene_bunny (Apr 6, 2013)

Oh wow!!! Looks amazing!


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## Hamalicious (Apr 7, 2013)

borntobnude said:


> Wow what a cool looking snake !!
> 
> It does have coastal carpet type markings , but not being expert???
> Is it a throwback from a natural intergrade? or is gosford to far south for that type of thing to happen ?
> ...



That "coastal" probably has some diamond in it as well. Definitely not a 100% coastal. I think both of these snakes are some level of intergrade. Not that it's a bad thing. But neither of them look like a diamond or a coastal.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 7, 2013)

I would very much doubt that snakeranch would label an intergrade as pure Gosford locale. 
Then again, they always happen to produce the out-of-ordinary specimens... Black womas... Jokes. A really beautiful animal.


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## ronhalling (Apr 7, 2013)

All i can say is where is the line i have to get into to get 1..............................................Ron


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## syxxx (Apr 7, 2013)

Hi snake Ranch, I hate to sound like an internet expert but if you post a photo such as this with minimal information then I guess you expect to provoke discussion more so calling them pure gosford diamonds. My thoughts are that if you out crossed to a coastal to introduce the hypo gene into Diamonds then good on you, if you do it responsibly and get the diamonds back to an acceptable percentage, these are not wild animals and you do breed snakes for profit I have no problem with that. The light snake in the photo does show a much wider cross band along the back and if you did not call it for a diamond I would have called it for a coastal. As another has said i too would love to see the parents and the other siblings.


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## Reptilia (Apr 7, 2013)

check this out...

Sydney Roosters prop Martin Kennedy a keen snake breeder | thetelegraph.com.au


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## thomasssss (Apr 7, 2013)

a few wild assumptions going on as i kinda expected , the animal does look to have some sort of intergrade thing going on , but to my knowledge isnt gosford still in the "intergrade zone" so to say although it is very close to diamond country ? ive never herped there so can only go off what ive been told , i thought the real pure diamonds (ie the ones with tiny rossetts and a nice black and white colour) started a little further south anyway 

so so to me there doesnt seem to be any crossing going on here , just a pure locality animal as its been labelled that is a little different to the norm 

i am curious though snake ranch how do you know/ get your hands on a pure locality carpet in nsw , im guessing that the lines been kept pure since they where originally wild caught years ago , or that you guys have been granted some sort of permit to catch them at some point , not having a dig just curious really


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## Perko (Apr 7, 2013)

Going by the non perfect rosettes this must be a intergrade then
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/.../todays-rescue-relocate-beautiful-7-a-203069/

All you internet experts should get out in the bush more often.
Stunning Diamond SR, the best ive seen.


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## Reptilia (Apr 7, 2013)

If we could see the parents, then it would be alot easier to tell


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## congo_python (Apr 7, 2013)

Stunning...... absolutely stunning is all I have to say.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 7, 2013)

Intergrade or not, it's certainly a magnificent snake!


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## Bart70 (Apr 7, 2013)

I have seen pictures of Gosford locale Diamonds that have been reported to be found in the Gosford area with patterns along the lines of some of the intergrades seen a little further north than Gosford ( I recall one being posted not that long ago on this site?)

I do see a resemblance of this pattern in this yellow snake. The yellow looks more like 'banana' yellow than the 'gold' yellow your see on high yellow diamonds, but can be hard to pick colors from a photo.

A very nice specimen.


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## Bart70 (Apr 7, 2013)

Hamalicious said:


> That "coastal" probably has some diamond in it as well. Definitely not a 100% coastal. I think both of these snakes are some level of intergrade. Not that it's a bad thing. But neither of them look like a diamond or a coastal.



I would agree....definitely some level of intergrade in this 'coastal'.


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## Hamalicious (Apr 8, 2013)

Perko said:


> All you internet experts should get out in the bush more often.
> Stunning Diamond SR, the best ive seen.




When was the last time you saw a "diamond" like the yellow one, out in the bush? And the diamond in your video may well have been on the bottom end of the intergrade scale. Hence the very slight difference in markings.


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## Perko (Apr 8, 2013)

1. I have seen plenty with that pattern, not colour
2. I dont have a video
3. The diamond in that link is from Springwood, no where near intergrade territory.



Hamalicious said:


> When was the last time you saw a "diamond" like the yellow one, out in the bush? And the diamond in your video may well have been on the bottom end of the intergrade scale. Hence the very slight difference in markings.


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## Cockney_Red (Apr 8, 2013)

The coastal strip between Sydney and the central coast Is the heartland of Diamond Pythons, where anything from very dark, to gold can be found, and any patterning, from tight rosettes, to banding....the sibling shot just proves that anything can be thrown up in a clutch. If that came up In a clutch of mine, the next 10 years would be interesting....wonder what SR will call this new line


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## -Peter (Apr 8, 2013)

Cockney_Red said:


> The coastal strip between Sydney and the central coast Is the heartland of Diamond Pythons, where anything from very dark, to gold can be found, and any patterning, from tight rosettes, to banding....the sibling shot just proves that anything can be thrown up in a clutch. If that came up In a clutch of mine, the next 10 years would be interesting....wonder what SR will call this new line



I'd extend that a bit further south but thats pretty much what I have found.


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## FAY (Apr 8, 2013)

Actually they are found as far down as the Victorian border, according to the books.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 8, 2013)

If this was the only one like that then I would not say it's an intergrade otherwise its fellow clutch mates would likely have some degree of different appearance however the other one shown looked very pure diamond. In saying this, I am yet to see the parents or the rest of the clutch. I must also add the whole diamond locales, intergrades and gosfords being intergrades according to some I find very confusing and am still learning whats what.


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## Cockney_Red (Apr 8, 2013)

Was not commenting on distribution, was more a reply to the misinformed post, putting Gosford In the Intergrade zone......hence "heartland"...


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## Bananapeel (Apr 8, 2013)

...The rosettes resemble more of a normal diamond - tight rosettes. Interesting though. And diamonds do occasionally show the more banded pattern. Less common but it does happen.


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## JordanA (Apr 8, 2013)

Great looking animal but it does not look like a pure diamond going by the pattern on the animal. Looks like it has a % of coastal in it.


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## Khagan (Apr 8, 2013)

Glad we have so many diamond experts on this site.


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## saximus (Apr 8, 2013)

Khagan said:


> Glad we have so many diamond experts on this site.


And it would obviously be advantageous for a company who has such a strong reputation in the community to come onto a public forum and tell lies.

Cracker animal fellas. I hope it turns out to be something good for you


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## andynic07 (Apr 8, 2013)

I wonder if the one Vixen has on her thread will turn out like this one? Very nice looking snake. And I know one is said to be an intergade and one is said to be pure diamond but they have a similar colour but the intergade does not have the black flecks.


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## zack13 (Apr 8, 2013)

...
It's no wonder big breeders stop frequenting this site when they have to deal with all these experts with their single snake in their room.


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## Bushfire (Apr 8, 2013)

In reality it could be anything, we will in all likelihood never know. The same with most diamonds really. Maybe keepers with their escaped coastals have had an influence over many populations around Sydney. I can remember a post awhile ago of someone posting a pic of a wild diamond mating with an escaped coastal that they found. The question would be to what extent does this happen and the influence this has on the genetic pool. Is the diamond python population around Sydney fairly intact or is it now polluted due to keeper's escapees? Who knows for sure. Given that the Diamond is so closely related to coastals genetically I guess its reasonable to expect some level of bands in so called diamonds but we will never know.


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## Norm (Apr 8, 2013)

I think part of the problem is that as far as diamonds are concerned, whenever someone breeds something unexpected or out of the ordinary people refuse to beleive it could have been an act of nature because of the common beleif that a "true" diamond must have tiny rosettes of no more than 5-7 scales and minimal head patterning. Anything that doesn`t fit this very tight description gets labelled an intergrade or a cross.


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## Justdragons (Apr 8, 2013)

cannot wait to see how this one develops as time goes by. Great work SR.


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## Shotta (Apr 8, 2013)

is there any other difference between intergrades and diamonds other than pattern or colour ,such as scale count etc? and wouldnt there be some sort of polymorphism or environmental influence that would make thier colours and patterns change? eg darker snake colder areas, brighter snake hot areas? sorry lol im starting to get real confused....


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## borntobnude (Apr 8, 2013)

^^^ just dragons i know you mean it but that could fit into the "sarcastic " thread teaching of a deflective tool !!

Yes i questioned the snake !!!! thats how you learn -- by asking questions . I do not have a reply yet , instead it is a lively discussion so far . thanks Perko I have no diamonds yet , i think everyone selling them at castle hill and newcastle saw my face and probably answered my questions ,one or two i wanted to purchase but by the time i had found the Boss and returned they were gone 

Over easter we went down the coast and met a fellow who rescues and has a few diamonds two of which are almost all black , just interspursed single yellow scales , so yes I know how different they can be


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## Hamalicious (Apr 8, 2013)

Nilesh said:


> environmental influence that would make thier colours and patterns change? eg darker snake colder areas, brighter snake hot areas?



All morelia are genetically the same. Their looks are determined by their environment. This is why we have intergrade zones, because the Morelia changes as the environment changes.


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## Justdragons (Apr 8, 2013)

@borntobenude no I was being serious. Im very interested to see how this one grows up . I ment no disrespect to anyone at all. 

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk 2


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## FAY (Apr 8, 2013)

From one end of the colour scale to the other......


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## andynic07 (Apr 8, 2013)

FAY said:


> From one end of the colour scale to the other......


Wow Fay another beautiful snake from you.


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## Venomous_RBB (Apr 8, 2013)

Wow, that seriously is an amazing snake. Will be interesting to see this guy develop.


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## Jeffa (Apr 8, 2013)

SR, that is an unusually unique great looking snake and good luck with it. Fay that snake is an absolute stunner and is something that makes my mouth water! Please keep us updated with what you pair it with and what the outcome is as that is seriously smokin!!!


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 8, 2013)

Interesting mutations are popping up all the time, why is this one so hard to believe?


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## syxxx (Apr 8, 2013)

Well this thread has achieved it's aim, throw out the bait and let them bite, so far it has been healthy, I think we can all agree that all Carpet pythons vary in colour from individual to individual, and diamonds are most likely the most variable and the animal in question is likely a pure diamond. 
Snake Ranch why don't you just share information in regards to the history of this hatchling, pics of the parents and other siblings. By not doing so you open yourselves up to rumors and people making their own judgements and eventually mud sticks, surely not good for business? Is starting a thread to stir up passionate hobbyists (your customers) the best way you can find to promote your business? My advise to snake ranch utelise the forums to promote yourselves in a healthy way


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## Bananapeel (Apr 8, 2013)

syxxx said:


> Well this thread has achieved it's aim, throw out the bait and let them bite, so far it has been healthy, I think we can all agree that all Carpet pythons vary in colour from individual to individual, and diamonds are most likely the most variable and the animal in question is likely a pure diamond.
> Snake Ranch why don't you just share information in regards to the history of this hatchling, pics of the parents and other siblings. By not doing so you open yourselves up to rumors and people making their own judgements and eventually mud sticks, surely not good for business? Is starting a thread to stir up passionate hobbyists (your customers) the best way you can find to promote your business? My advise to snake ranch utelise the forums to promote yourselves in a healthy way


 
If you are implying that snakeranch have promoted their business in a bad way I have to disagree. Any hobbyist who has done the slightest bit of research will likely know snakeranch and the quality animals produced. IMO they don't have to go shoving heaps of photos of parents, siblings etc (despite how nice it would be ) for us to work out that they are not scamming us and calling an intergrade a diamond. Diamonds vary a lot. To be able to comment you must understand this s as not to go making yourself look like a fool insulting a renowned breeder. They have not stirred up their customers. We have stirred one another up by being so ignorant to a highly regarded breeder and other very experienced members. 

These have occurred before. Not on such a dramatic scale but as I mentioned earlier, Cutting Edge Morelia show a similar (darker) pure Gosford diamond on their site under the available diamonds. (It's actually a holdback and rightly so) 

This specimen is simply another stunning creature that was produced (maybe by fluke) by snakeranch. 
IMO this does not put them in bad light but rather shows the sheer beauty and quality of their animals and excites us hobbyists and keeps us keen for what's to come in the future of captive reptiles in Australia.


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## Reptilia (Apr 9, 2013)

I want to know how you can say its of 'pure gosford' locality.
You see snakes passed off as various locales all the time with no proof.
It could be a diamond, integrade or coastal.

But, it's a very pretty snake.


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## borntobnude (Apr 9, 2013)

FAY said:


> From one end of the colour scale to the other......



This has more colour than the ones i saw over easter !!


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## FAY (Apr 9, 2013)

The SR one has pattern on yellow, this has pattern on black. That was what I was meaning.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 9, 2013)

Reptilia said:


> I want to know how you can say its of 'pure gosford' locality.
> You see snakes passed off as various locales all the time with no proof.
> It could be a diamond, integrade or coastal.
> 
> But, it's a very pretty snake.



Yes but the people giving them more respected labels are not breeders like Snake Ranch. SR have no need to be putting sought after labels on animals that arent what they say they are.


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## Jacknife (Apr 9, 2013)

Reptilia said:


> I want to know how you can say its of 'pure gosford' locality.
> You see snakes passed off as various locales all the time with no proof.
> It could be a diamond, integrade or coastal.
> 
> But, it's a very pretty snake.



Passing this off as something it's not cannot possibly benefit SXR in any way. For such an established and well respected breeder it can do nothing but damage a shining reputation in this hobby.
There is no need for them to do it and they are at a point of respect and standing in the industry that, if they call a spade a spade you can put all your damn money on it being a spade!


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## littlemay (Apr 9, 2013)

^ *Snake Ranch


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## Shotta (Apr 9, 2013)

maybe its a hypo diamond?


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## Umbral (Apr 9, 2013)

Nilesh said:


> maybe its a hypo diamond?


Learn to read, it's a spade!


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## FAY (Apr 9, 2013)

There is NO Way in the world that SR would say something wasn't what it is. Why do you feel that it is hard to beleive that it is pure Gosford Diamond? Has anyone seen EVERY Diamond that is out there in the wild to know what one should look like?? They are TOO respected and have too much to lose through lying.


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## andynic07 (Apr 9, 2013)

To the people who say it is not what SR say it is I have one question. What would SR have to gain from calling a snake something different than what it is? If they have a beautiful snake of what ever species people will buy it no matter what it is called.


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## nintendont (Apr 9, 2013)

Reptilia said:


> I want to know how you can say its of 'pure gosford' locality.
> You see snakes passed off as various locales all the time with no proof.
> It could be a diamond, integrade or coastal.
> 
> But, it's a very pretty snake.


my way of thinking is: SR are basically the Australian Reptile Park so having a zoo licence their foundation breeder animals would have all been wild caught so they know exact locales. thats why I got my wheatbelts from there. i hope my way of thinking is right...


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## Bananapeel (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm sick of people trying to question a very renowned, high quality breeder. Just suck it up. You're all jealous that they produce beautiful animals with pure localities without needing to intentionally label them incorrectly.


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## Cockney_Red (Apr 9, 2013)

nintendont said:


> my way of thinking is: SR are basically the Australian Reptile Park so having a zoo licence their foundation breeder animals would have all been wild caught so they know exact locales. thats why I got my wheatbelts from there. i hope my way of thinking is right...


saved me a long winded


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## treeofgreen (Apr 9, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> I'm sick of people trying to question a very renowned, high quality breeder. Just suck it up. You're all jealous that they produce beautiful animals with pure localities without needing to intentionally label them incorrectly.



Nothing against SR, but NOONE is above question. People think its not what they say, so they ask. If SR doesn't want to comment or provide some more info, that's their choice. Blindly following something because they have a rep is foolish. No, im not saying SR are lying, this is just general advice 

Its like we have a new conspiracy.... forget the Bilderbergs and Rothschilds.... SR's very yellow diamond is much more important


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## Norm (Apr 9, 2013)

As I`ve said before, the only reason this is causing such a stir in my humble opinion is because of two words, "pure" and "diamond". If it was a pure coastal, jungle, darwin, stimmy etc. people would be congratulating them on an awsome looking snake, waiting with anticipation for the day they can get thier hands on one for thier own collections. But there seems to be this stigma that a diamond can only ever look a certain way and that anything else isn`t merely a freak of nature but rather a deceitful effort by the breeder to rob people of thier hard earned. Diamonds and intergrades are by far my favourite snake but it makes me wonder if its worth getting involved in breeding them because of the constant bickering and finger pointing that goes on around them. 
That feels a little better


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## karll (Apr 9, 2013)

nice snake mad colour


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## thomasssss (Apr 9, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> a few wild assumptions going on as i kinda expected , the animal does look to have some sort of intergrade thing going on , but to my knowledge isnt gosford still in the "intergrade zone" so to say although it is very close to diamond country ? ive never herped there so can only go off what ive been told , i thought the real pure diamonds (ie the ones with tiny rossetts and a nice black and white colour) started a little further south anyway
> 
> so so to me there doesnt seem to be any crossing going on here , just a pure locality animal as its been labelled that is a little different to the norm
> 
> i am curious though snake ranch how do you know/ get your hands on a pure locality carpet in nsw , im guessing that the lines been kept pure since they where originally wild caught years ago , or that you guys have been granted some sort of permit to catch them at some point , not having a dig just curious really


just thought id make it clear that my above post i was in no way questioning the snakes purity , i was merely offering an explanation to the doubters although as its been pointed out i was under the wrong impression 

i was led to believe that gosford was sort of the cross over point so to say , kind of like how they say coffs is the other end of the intergrade zone and that most of what youd find there would be diamonds but that there was still the odd intergrade looking specimen floating about (please no stupid comments about how they must just know they cant cross the invisible line in the bush , its getting old ) 

just thought id make it clear though that i was i no way saying it where a cross or anything else cheers


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## Norm (Apr 9, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> just thought id make it clear that my above post i was in no way questioning the snakes purity , i was merely offering an explanation to the doubters although as its been pointed out i was under the wrong impression
> 
> i was led to believe that gosford was sort of the cross over point so to say , kind of like how they say coffs is the other end of the intergrade zone and that most of what youd find there would be diamonds but that there was still the odd intergrade looking specimen floating about (please no stupid comments about how they must just know they cant cross the invisible line in the bush , its getting old )
> 
> just thought id make it clear though that i was i no way saying it where a cross or anything else cheers



I wouldn`t feel too bad about making this mistake as there was a sponsor of this site selling "Gosford Diamond Intergrades" a while ago. I know a lot of the old timers on here get sick of the intergrade debate but is it any wonder it keeps coming up when its such a confusing subject that depends largely on opinion rather than scientific fact.


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## thomasssss (Apr 9, 2013)

Norm said:


> I wouldn`t feel too bad about making this mistake as there was a sponsor of this site selling "Gosford Diamond Intergrades" a while ago. I know a lot of the old timers on here get sick of the intergrade debate but is it any wonder it keeps coming up when its such a confusing subject that depends largely on opinion rather than scientific fact.


thats it , the person who told me that was a family friend who comes from wollongong and he is a keen herper himself , so it was info i took on board as he has spent time there himself , whether its correct or not i cant be sure


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## Bart70 (Apr 9, 2013)

nintendont said:


> my way of thinking is: SR are basically the Australian Reptile Park so having a zoo licence their foundation breeder animals would have all been wild caught so they know exact locales. thats why I got my wheatbelts from there. i hope my way of thinking is right...



Not disputing what you say about their animals ( I also own one of theirs), I am not sure the zoo licence thing is still applicable since SR was sold off last year. As far as I am aware, ARP and SR are no longer owned by the same people. Happy to stand corrected though.


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## cement (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't call myself a diamond expert but I have probably seen more wild diamonds then anyone else on this thread. I have been doing my own research on this subspecies for years and have many photos of wild diamonds, especially their head patterns as this is what I use to identify ones that I know are in an area and I re-catch. 
I am licenced to catch and release in the Gosford shire, so I deal with Gosford locality diamonds on a regular basis. 
The "pure diamond" look that many people believe is the norm (or what makes it pure) is the small perfect rossettes, neatly lined up, Fay's photo shows that.
This "look" is the exception rather then the norm (around Gosford). But I have never seen a banded diamond either. At best they are very weakly banded, with clusters of rossettes that form little cross body stripes (across the body, not parrallel to it). In my experience Gosford diamonds do not have any striping parrallel to the body or any marking that could be called banding. This type of pattern does occur further north of Gosford, and to my knowledge starts somewhere around the Treachery Beach area and goes north.
I see no reason to doubt Snake Ranch on this animal, and to be honest I asked them to sell it, but they declined!

If you take a look at this one mid body you will see the little cross body bands that are the norm for pure Gosford locality wild diamonds that I mentioned.


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## Reptilia (Apr 9, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> Yes but the people giving them more respected labels are not breeders like Snake Ranch. SR have no need to be putting sought after labels on animals that arent what they say they are.



Snake ranch is a large breeder of snakes no doubt and a highly reputable one, but I'm sure you will agree that there collection is not comprised of all wild snakes caught under permission.
These stock animals have come from many different sources from individuals and breeders all around australia (some captive, some wild caught and some with locales attatched. some true, some false). Unfortunately you cannot guarantee that these snakes are from specific locations nor can they be identified as specific sub species in the range of coastals, diamonds and integrades.

If the python was wild caught from gosford then its fair to say its more than likely a diamond, but unfortunately there is no real evidence to say that it is. Can anyone say with any certainty that my rhd womas, my normanton bhps, my elcho island childrens and my iron range gtps are from those specific locations. (not to mention the 100's of other labels that have been attached).


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 9, 2013)

nintendont said:


> my way of thinking is: SR are basically the Australian Reptile Park so having a zoo licence their foundation breeder animals would have all been wild caught so they know exact locales. thats why I got my wheatbelts from there. i hope my way of thinking is right...



Actually many of their foundation animals have been captive bred


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## Norm (Apr 9, 2013)

Cement, 
you are exactly what this and other threads like it need, people with real experience who know what they are talking about. Speaking for myself, that's why I'm here, to learn from people withe the years of experience that I can never have because I got into it later in life. I wish more people like cement would contribute.


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## nintendont (Apr 9, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> Actually many of their foundation animals have been captive bred


captive bred from known wild-caught specimens? Or captive bred from foundation animals sourced from your average Joe-Blow? How can anyone put a locale on an animal unless they are completely sure of its' origin?


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## Umbral (Apr 9, 2013)

How do I know my tinned corn is corn at all. You can't just live your life thinking everything you are told is false. Sure you should question things that don't make sence but if someone tells you something and it looks like it might add up why would you enter a debate about it?

SR have a lot to lose and little to gain by saying its a Gosford diamond when they could have said it was from further north. I've seen a Gosford diamond (Found in my family's shed in Holgate.) with similar markings. Are all the experts going to come out and tell me it must be someone's pet that escaped now? If an aapple looks like an apple and tastes like an apple why ask the farmer to prove its an apple?


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## Norm (Apr 9, 2013)

Because it might be a nashi


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## nintendont (Apr 9, 2013)

Im really only thinking about my situation (having bought 2 SR wheaties) and not the original diamond, but the general consensus from this thread seems to be that there is NO GUARANTEE that my snakes actually did originate from the wheatbelt region. 
Why does it matter? Because wheaties look better and cost more. I want what I paid for and thats what I expected from SR and had no reason to believe otherwise until this thread.


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## cement (Apr 9, 2013)

Hey thanks Norm for those kind words, just trying to make things a bit less muddied for others.
There are still a great many pure gosford diamonds in captivity. It is a matter of knowing who is who and history of the area. Lots of older guys here on the Central Coast have been breeding for donkeys years, from days when you could take a walk into the big paddock and take and keep whatever you wanted.
A lot of clutches from those days ended up in Vic pet shops, because at the time you could get big dollars selling down there. This was long before jags, sub species crossing and the morph scene.
Pure diamonds certainly aren't rare in captivity, but like the blurry line between diamond-integrade, and integrade -coastal country, there will always be a blurry line between what is considered diamond, and what is considered an integrade.
Even colour is very variable around here, ranging from very black, to very yellow, and even the yellow can be pale or bright or a cream colour. There are ones with white rossettes and others with yellow rossettes. I have even caught one (and put the photos up on this site i think) that was both black and yellow, and black and white in big patches down its body.
This photo is a pure locality Gosford high yellow diamond, check out the long cross body rossettes, just like the Snake ranch hatchy has. This one has what I call 'weak' banding, and is as close to banding as you would find on a Gosford diamond.


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## borntobnude (Apr 9, 2013)

Yes thankyou cement , a lot of good usefull info there


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## Norm (Apr 9, 2013)

Cement I remember that diamond that had both yellow and white! Very unique. As a diamond lover I don't miss much that posted in regards to them or intergrades for that matter.


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## SnakeRanch (Apr 9, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your interest in this little guy, we contribute to forums such as Aussiepythons to update fellow keepers on projects or interesting animals we have. In this instance we never intended to start such a heated debate on what constitutes an Intergrade or Diamond and hope this post does not reignite that same debate. We certainly never expected to have our honesty or reputation questioned over the origin of a single animal. 

This hatchling was bred from a pair of quiet boring looking Diamond's originating from Gosford, they are known to be pure and posses no visual variance to suggest an animal from any other locality or subspecies was introduced in previous generations. 

For arguments sake however, if it were to be an Intergrade or Darwin or Bredli, would it make this particular animal any less impressive? Would its colours be any less yellow? or lack of pattern any less intriguing? Ultimately, probably not. So then why would we represent it to be anything other than what it actually is? If we did in fact hatch a bright yellow Intergrade(not that we even breed Intergrades), there would be nothing gained by calling it a 'Gosford Diamond'.

There is so much about it that we are unable to explain and can only speculate along with everyone else. Its eye, skin and tongue colour, size of 'rosettes' and head pattern are all traits that contribute to it looking remarkably "un-Diamond", but does that mean it cannot be a Diamond? It is a one-of-a-kind animal that we hope will never look anything like a wild type Diamond as it matures! The less it looks like a Diamond the better! 

The exciting prospect is that know one really knows how it will develop, only time will tell.


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 9, 2013)

nintendont said:


> captive bred from known wild-caught specimens? Or captive bred from foundation animals sourced from your average Joe-Blow? How can anyone put a locale on an animal unless they are completely sure of its' origin?



You would have to ask them, all I know is many of their lines were not started from wild caught animals and that they were purchased from other breeders, this does not mean that the localities they sell are false!


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## borntobnude (Apr 11, 2013)

Thankyou S/R for those words . It is an amazing snake and therefore no wonder that questions were asked . As with other projects there will be many awaiting further developments and I /we are sure you will keep us posted , when you feel it necessary .


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## cement (Apr 12, 2013)

Norm said:


> Cement I remember that diamond that had both yellow and white! Very unique. As a diamond lover I don't miss much that posted in regards to them or intergrades for that matter.


Gday Norm, yep it was, and still is the only one I have seen like that. And being a wild snake, it raises a lot of questions that will never be answered. Like was it hatched like that, was it losing pigment etc. I am assuming that it was always and always will retain that pattern, otherwise I would probably expect to see more diamonds like that if changing colour was possible. Where I released it, I could go back every couple of days and see it still there basking, until the weather warmed up and it got hungry and took off for good. Diamonds are just as open to morphing like any other carpet snake.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Apr 16, 2013)

Most unusual coloured Diamond (usually brown) hatchos turn out to be the highest and brightest yellow. You would have to think this example would turn out super bright.......

absolute cracker.....


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## aussie-albino (Apr 19, 2013)

Spectacular SR an another awesome project for the future, I am keen to see what you produce from it in years to come guys good luck.

cheers
Scott


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## Cockney_Red (Apr 19, 2013)

cement said:


> Hey thanks Norm for those kind words, just trying to make things a bit less muddied for others.
> There are still a great many pure gosford diamonds in captivity. It is a matter of knowing who is who and history of the area. Lots of older guys here on the Central Coast have been breeding for donkeys years, from days when you could take a walk into the big paddock and take and keep whatever you wanted.
> A lot of clutches from those days ended up in Vic pet shops, because at the time you could get big dollars selling down there. This was long before jags, sub species crossing and the morph scene.
> Pure diamonds certainly aren't rare in captivity, but like the blurry line between diamond-integrade, and integrade -coastal country, there will always be a blurry line between what is considered diamond, and what is considered an integrade.
> ...


I would say most of the wild Diamonds I have seen, between the Royal and the Watagans, are banded this way.

Was meant for Cements picture!


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## Cockney_Red (May 9, 2013)

Any more on that little anomaly SR?


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## Tesla (Aug 19, 2013)

cement said:


> I don't call myself a diamond expert but I have probably seen more wild diamonds then anyone else on this thread. I have been doing my own research on this subspecies for years and have many photos of wild diamonds, especially their head patterns as this is what I use to identify ones that I know are in an area and I re-catch.
> I am licenced to catch and release in the Gosford shire, so I deal with Gosford locality diamonds on a regular basis.
> The "pure diamond" look that many people believe is the norm (or what makes it pure) is the small perfect rossettes, neatly lined up, Fay's photo shows that.
> This "look" is the exception rather then the norm (around Gosford). But I have never seen a banded diamond either. At best they are very weakly banded, with clusters of rossettes that form little cross body stripes (across the body, not parrallel to it). In my experience Gosford diamonds do not have any striping parrallel to the body or any marking that could be called banding. This type of pattern does occur further north of Gosford, and to my knowledge starts somewhere around the Treachery Beach area and goes north.
> ...



Banded diamonds have definitely been found in Gosford. There was a herper who used to live on up here on the coast who found one and posted the pic around.


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## Moreliavridis (Aug 20, 2013)

Wow it's threads like this that made me stop coming to this site. 
Not even a quarter of the people in this thread would even live in the gosford area. 
As cement has said the "pure diamond" is most certainly not the norm in gosford I have seen several like the one cement posted a pic of. 
I have even seen a few like this





In the area. 
A lot of the wild hatchies I have found have also ranged from light brown (not as light as the SR hatchie) to dark brown almost black.
As stated many times before SR have no reason to claim it as pure if it was not the would be no gain in saying it was.
Snakes don't come from the Internet the come from the wild so with out people like cement doing their research with wild specimens most of the people on here would know anything about snakes.


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 20, 2013)

can we get a updated pic snakeranch?


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Oct 8, 2013)

bump :lol:


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## ronhalling (Oct 8, 2013)

Norm said:


> As I`ve said before, the only reason this is causing such a stir in my humble opinion is because of two words, "pure" and "diamond". If it was a pure coastal, jungle, darwin, stimmy etc. people would be congratulating them on an awsome looking snake, waiting with anticipation for the day they can get thier hands on one for thier own collections. But there seems to be this stigma that a diamond can only ever look a certain way and that anything else isn`t merely a freak of nature but rather a deceitful effort by the breeder to rob people of thier hard earned. Diamonds and intergrades are by far my favourite snake but it makes me wonder if its worth getting involved in breeding them because of the constant bickering and finger pointing that goes on around them.
> That feels a little better



Lol Norm, that is not really correct, i made the mistake of calling my big girl a pure Coastal and the forum went wild saying that Port Macquarie was the heartland of Intergrades so my girl could not be pure Coastal so it had to be an Intergrade, now i just call her an Intergrade so the hollier than though within the forum don't throw rocks at me again. I think we here at APS are doing ourselves a great disservice calling into question the locale and heritage of every python that gets posted within our hallowed pages and soon enough groups such as Snake Ranch are not going to post pics or info of the next good thing for fear of their word being questioned, if Snake Ranch say it is pure Diamond then why are so many questioning it, as Andy said what have they got to gain from missrepresentation.  .................................Ron


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## Gusbus (Oct 8, 2013)

Thats a cracker, be good to see it as it gets bigger


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## tripnotyzm (Oct 13, 2013)

Would love to see an updated picture <3


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## shaunyboy (Oct 21, 2013)

Cold-B-Hearts said:


> can we get a updated pic snakeranch?



i to would love to see an updated picture

cheers shaun


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## Norm (Oct 21, 2013)

Lots of people asking but still no pic, come on, give us a look!


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## SnakeRanch (Nov 4, 2013)

Sorry for the belated response everyone, we will get some updated photos soon.


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## shaunyboy (Nov 16, 2013)

SnakeRanch said:


> Sorry for the belated response everyone, we will get some updated photos soon.



sorry to hassle you mate......

but how long are you going to keep us in suspence over these pic's ? 

cheers shaun


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## thomasssss (Nov 17, 2013)

maybe if we keep bumping up the thread we will finally get some new pictures , please snake ranch let us see him once more


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## joelly116 (Nov 26, 2013)

Comparing this to my diamonds I dose look extremly close to my Gosford diamonds


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## shaunyboy (Dec 30, 2013)

shaunyboy said:


> i to would love to see an updated picture
> 
> cheers shaun





Norm said:


> Lots of people asking but still no pic, come on, give us a look!





shaunyboy said:


> sorry to hassle you mate......
> 
> but how long are you going to keep us in suspence over these pic's ?
> 
> cheers shaun





thomasssss said:


> maybe if we keep bumping up the thread we will finally get some new pictures , please snake ranch let us see him once more



any chance you could post some up dated pictures please mate

cheers shaun


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## shaunyboy (Feb 10, 2014)

looks like we're not getting updated pic's mate (not being cheeky)

pity as i would have loved to see updated pics 


cheers shaun


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## Norm (Feb 10, 2014)

Yeah, If you don't want to show new pics, just say so! )


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## Newhere (Feb 10, 2014)

I heard that they sold it and its no longer at the ranch.


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## The_Geeza (Feb 10, 2014)

It's a shame that they make a thread and tease people at times yet r pretty forthcoming when they selling something HA...can't knock the quality of there snakes tho as I have 4 snakes from them


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## champagne (Feb 10, 2014)

With all the stories and misconceptions coming out at the moment I'm not surprised....


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