# Substrate for Monitors



## saximus (Aug 5, 2011)

Do many people use kitty litter for monitors? I know heaps of people seem to use sand almost exclusively with them but I'm finding it difficult to clean and it gets smelly pretty quick. I use Oz pet for my snakes and I was thinking about maybe using that when my tristis upgrade to their new, bigger enclosure. Are there are issues with doing this or is it just that people prefer the look of sand?


----------



## Kenno (Aug 6, 2011)

Substrate is the major husbandry consideration for monitors in captivity. It can cause no end of problems if its incorrect. Plain play sand is not ideal but it is certainly better than newspaper or kittylitter. The latter two materials will equate to a very unhappy and unhealthy monitor. The best substrate is a blended mix of sand and bioactive soil(garden dirt!) with minimal Detritus and clays. The subrate should hold a burrow and varied levels of moisture well. It's often hard to get the blend just right if you haven't seen or felt it before. There are some great overseas monitor forums, I suggest you look them up (varanus dot net is a gooden) or even try YouTube or google. Regards


----------



## ozziepythons (Aug 6, 2011)

I have used paper pellets in the form of kitty litter as substrate for monitors. It is dessicating and the monitors would end up with shed skin fused to the scales. I use for sand monitors and knob tailed geckos sand I source locally from the mallee scrub. If its dry it shouldn't become smelly and I've found it quite easy to spot clean with. Always have a sieve (kitchen strainer) handy for partial or total clean outs.


----------



## Reptile_Lover (Aug 6, 2011)

when i had my ackie mate i used a mix of coco-peat and reptile sand, she was happy and it holds together well for digging, she had made a nice burrow in a hill of it i made her, kicking myself for selling her.


----------



## saximus (Aug 6, 2011)

Ah yeah I didn't think of the desiccating thing. Thanks for the replies guys. I'll try mixing it with some dirt and/or coco peat. They are Tristis so not sure if they like digging but I suppose it's always nice to give them the option


----------



## sesa-sayin (Aug 6, 2011)

KENNO!! can you please say, in your opinion, as to why newspaper is not a good substrate for small mons.. certainly, easy to replace, and therefore clean, and provided there are 2 or more layers, easy for them to go under for protection and security


----------



## crocdoc (Aug 6, 2011)

sesa-sayin said:


> KENNO!! can you please say, in your opinion, as to why newspaper is not a good substrate for small mons..





ozziepythons said:


> I have used paper pellets in the form of kitty litter as substrate for monitors. It is dessicating and the monitors would end up with shed skin fused to the scales.


Same goes for newspaper.

Not Kenno, but I agree that newspaper is not a good substrate for monitors. What ozziepythons said about paper pellets goes for newspaper, too. It doesn't hold humidity and small/baby monitors have a high surface/volume ratio so they dehydrate easily, especially with the hot basking spots required to keep monitors healthy.


----------



## sesa-sayin (Aug 6, 2011)

CROCDOC so glad you informed re the "no humidity in newspaper" certainly, i raise a few juvies every year on newspaper, but i provide a container of clean, fresh, moist spagnum in the enclosure, which they sometimes sit in...am acutely aware of (lack of humidity ) with juvies/hatchies, because in the beginning i lost a few in Jan/Feb...will use something else this summer


----------



## cadwallader (Aug 6, 2011)

what are where do you get blended sand from??? and just top soil from the nursery? mixit 50/50 is that roughly how you do it???
Cheers


----------



## Tristis (Aug 6, 2011)

I use sand, it's the best I've tried.
News paper will make your monitors toes and tail tip fall off.


----------



## Kenno (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks for the comments crocdoc and Tristis, 

Bernard, how do you propose the monitors deposit their eggs on/under newspaper? Burrows? if they aren't happy with the available nesting sites they often hold onto the eggs, this causes massive issues. Keeping them on newspaper is fine for the short time after they are born but i cannot see what advantage it serves to keep them on anything other than proper bioactive substrate? 

enlighten me


----------



## SamNabz (Aug 31, 2011)

Bump...

Thought I would bump this thread instead of starting a new one.

I was wondering if any one uses a bio-active substrate in their indoor monitor enclosures?

I did a search and found one thread where Southside Morelia has done this for his _Hypsilurus_ species.

Looking for anyone who does this in their monitor set ups, and if so, please share what materials/methods were used.


----------



## saximus (Aug 31, 2011)

lol you fool.
I know very little about it Sam so I won't be much help but if you look here: Bio-active Substrate | Gecko Time
There is a picture of an ackie so I'd guess it could be used for them. I'm now using a mixture of coco peat and sand for both my tristis and ackies. It seems to hold the moisture a little better at the cool end than straight sand. I'd be interested to look into how to promote microbe growth to create this type of bioactive setup


----------



## SamNabz (Sep 1, 2011)

lol why am I a fool?? 

Cheers for the link and info.

I'd like to set it up and start a little bug breeding ground to do as they explained in that article. Just looking for some insight into which bugs etc. to put in there...


----------



## cadwallader (Sep 1, 2011)

i was keeping my ridge tails on aspen bedding, i found it great they could burrow, and they held their shape much better then expected... never had a problem with sheding and the woodies breed in there, but i am now using sand and dirt and they havent seemed to dig at all yet (2 weeks)


----------



## pythrulz (Sep 1, 2011)

Tea tree mulch is good or fresly mowed grass but it does hold to much humidity untill it dries out but my monitor seems to like it


----------



## crocdoc (Sep 1, 2011)

I wouldn't recommend freshly mowed grass. If it's piled too high and starts to decompose, it will reach extremely high temperatures.


----------



## SamNabz (Sep 1, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> Freshly mowed grass is one of the worst substrates you can use. If it's piled too high and starts to decompose, it will reach extremely high temperatures.



Cheers for the info, Dave. To be honest I've never heard of any one using mowed grass as substrate...

Anything to add regarding bio-active substrate?


----------



## crocdoc (Sep 1, 2011)

I've used all sorts of substrates for my lace monitors, from leaf-litter, to assorted mulches to pine shavings. If they were a real burrowing species I'd probably be going a dirt/soil/leaf litter mix. I presume by bio-active substrate you mean one containing natural microbes? I find that with a large enclosure that is spot cleaned, it becomes bio-active all on its own after a while!


----------



## jinin (Sep 1, 2011)

I use Brikkie Sand, it holds the burrows well.


----------



## mister3 (Sep 4, 2011)

do you guys have access to Cypress Mulch? holds moisture GREAT and doesn't decompose or mold/mildew. really good for reptiles that need high humidity environments


----------



## saximus (Sep 4, 2011)

At my Big W we have pine bark mulch. I was going to try that but wasn't sure about the whole pine resin issue


----------



## mister3 (Sep 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> At my Big W we have pine bark mulch. I was going to try that but wasn't sure about the whole pine resin issue


 Pine Bark would have too much oil in the bark and would probably mold/mildew in the high humidity. we have pine here and it's NOT recommended for reptile bedding use.

coco fiber and cypress mulch are the 2 best substrates for reptiles in need of high humidity substrate with cypress being the better of the 2.

i'm on the West Coast in the US and all the cypress mulch production over here is on the East Coast (3K miles away) so even i have a difficult time getting it. can order around $8,000usd for a truckload to get it for $6.00usd a bag delivered (2 CU FT) or buy it from someone who trucks it in for anywhere from $10.00 per bag (80 minimum) to $21.00 per bag (individual). i generally stock up with 80 bags at a time and sell some off to friends and such


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 4, 2011)

Tristis said:


> I use sand, it's the best I've tried.
> News paper will make your monitors toes and tail tip fall off.



Do you use normal beach sand or something else? I have a lacy on breeders choice but have been informed to change it. I am not sure what to change to.


----------



## serpenttongue (Sep 4, 2011)

Kathy, go to Bunnings and buy 2-3 blocks of coco-peat. Follow the instructions and you'll have a nice moist substrate that creates some humidity in the enclosure.


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 4, 2011)

Too easy Serpenttongue. Thanks  Is that all? Don't need to mix it with dirt?


----------



## saximus (Sep 4, 2011)

I've mixed mine with sand and it has made a fairly nice consistency. I would also suggest you don't put as much water as the packet says. The ones I got said to put 4.5L per block and when I tried that first it made a very wet mush. I only did 2.5-3 in my next set and it seems much better


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 4, 2011)

Thank you Nick and Saximus. I have two books on monitors, too, I forgot I had and did some reading up. I think I can fix his floor up to get him nice and happy.

I read in my book that sick or injured ones require the humidity to prevent dehydration because they won't go to water to drink. I haven't seen him move in the last three days apart from shifting position so am probably confident he hasn't been drinking. Should I dribble some water into his mouth or just start pumping the humidity? I don't want him going downhill because of something I've done wrong? Also, his enclosure is inside my shed. He gets plenty of natural light but no direct sun. Will that matter for now? I don't want to handle him un-necessarily but if I need to move him out for some sun I have a portable dog kennel that I use for giving my snakes sun.


----------



## mister3 (Sep 4, 2011)

if he isn't drinking then you can use a mister and mist him and he should lap that up or take the water dropper to help hydrate him.

also getting direct sunlight is GREAT but if ot available get some good strong UV lighting


----------



## crocdoc (Sep 4, 2011)

I wouldn't put it in direct sun until you know it is active and well enough to get out of the sun before cooking itself. Indoors you can control its environment better until it is healthy. There is no cypress mulch here but I've used tea tree mulch in the past and it is excellent. Wood shavings from Pet Barn will even work as long as you spray it down with water a bit to keep the dust down.


----------



## sesa-sayin (Sep 5, 2011)

Is there any waay one can save this thread to" Favs ". I will need it soon, and would like to keep it as a good reference.. ?


----------



## saximus (Sep 5, 2011)

Just add it to your browser bookmarks

Or copy the hyperlink and email it to yourself. That's how I keep track of stuff that I plan to use in the near future


----------



## Robo1 (Sep 5, 2011)

sesa-sayin said:


> Is there any waay one can save this thread to" Favs ". I will need it soon, and would like to keep it as a good reference.. ?


Add this thread to your subscriptions.
Up the top there are three drop down menus on the right just above the 1st post. The left most one is "Thread Tools". Under this menu select "Subscribe to this thread...". It will then appear in your subscribed threads list, which works like the normal forum and shows threads with new posts up the top in bold. You can also add it so that you get e-mail notifications, but I find through the forum plenty.


----------



## sesa-sayin (Sep 6, 2011)

Thx ..Guys. appreciated


----------

