# truth about pet-stores



## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

i bought a pak of 6 frozen mice for 20 dollers at pet barn......hey iam a steel roofer but i have been trying to get out of that lin of work and get into working with animals and all i can say is I HATE THESE BIG MAJOR PETSTORES and ill happyily name ones that have disgusted me....let u guys on a lil secret i applied for a job at PET-HYPERMARKET at homeworld helensvale on the goldcoast!..i'll state one question of many BS qeustionss they asked us during the trial there and it was "whats our main concern?"...i said " the care of the animal and making sure the animals husbandy of the animal is right"..she said "no! our customers!"..then i replied "but what if the animals cage is dirty or the animals have not been fed or have water"..the woman goes "no,see to our customers first them attend to the animals if you have time"..okay now that made my jaw drop,since i had neevr applied at a pet shop,and in the reptile section wich i whanted to work in they got some new zeland chick who just moved here,who had never kept a snake in her life trying to tell me how to keep reptiles(we ended up nealry getting into a arguement)... i know the customers are important,but doesnt anyone think if anyone is selling or keeping animals,the animals care should come first no matter what!?? so i never even bothered to call back the next day,that really annoyed me what they said....3 weeks ago i applied at PET BARN NERANG!-desperate to get into a line of work that involves reptiles... i whent for the interview,it was going well with what i had on my resume until they whipped out the wak questions,ill give you one of the many BS scenerios he put me in.... this idiot goes to me! "okay if i come into the store with only a certain amount of money and i approach you and say,okay well i have a 5ft costal carpet at home and i need a enclosure for it,but i ONLY have enough money for this enclosure wich is 4ft long and 2ft high...what do u tell them!..i said "firstly iam going to tell them this a aboreal species mainly and they going to need a bigger enclosure"..then he goes,"but they only have enough money this one small enclosure"...so i said " well id suggest them to come back and get a bigger one when they have the right money!and we'll hold it for them or i would tell them to make their own enclosure and give them some tips of how to do that"..."WRONG!" he says.." YOU have just lost me a sale!..you should of said to them that the 4ft enclosure was fine and still sell it to them! and if you whant inform them they might need a bigger cage l8er!!..that made me soo angry!..THIS IS THE SAME PET-SHOP I BOUGHT MY 2 MURRY TURTLES OFF! AND THE ONLY REASON I BOUGHT THEM IS BECUASE THE WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM HAD FUNGUS SPREAD ALL OVER THE FEET AND LEGS,AND THEY HAD LOST ALL THEIR LITTLE CLAWS BECUASE OF THIS...I LAY A COMPLAINT and i bought the 2 turtles..he must of remebered me and thats why i did not get the job..i dunno,wich iam kind of glad! i dont think i whant to work in some pet-stores now! cos itll jsut anger me the way they treat their animals...there is never any water either in their enclosures ( and im talking majority reptiles) their lack of information and care for reptiles is appauling!! and i have learnt that pet shops do not care REALLY about their reptiles and know nothing...How many of yous have walked into a pet shop for a reptile or for your reptile and u end up telling the SELLER at the pet-shop what you need,..i have walked into so many and i have had to be the one telling the pet-shop whant i need..i also think its wrong that i have over heard & seen pet-stores selling 5yr old kids turtles(wich is def not a kids pet),snakes,lizards just bcos their parents got a lisence for them ( oh but the parents dont know n e thing about reptiles,but its okay..they have a lisence)..sorry about the long story...but if any of you have had a pet shop story like these,please share!..iam interested to hear..if not! this is whats i have learnt from some major pet stores,all they care about is the MONEY!!


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## Renagade (Jul 21, 2009)

The woman at pet whatever-it's-called at marrickville metro tried to charge me $15.70 for ONE medium frozen rat yesterday. needless to say i just laughed in her face and strolled out.


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah its appaling at how the owners of shops think first about money then about the welfare of animals. I work at an aquarium and recently we had a middle aged man come in with 1000 dollars cash to buy an arowana we had for sale, so i engaged in converstation about his other fish and how many years he had kept them he then let slip that the three foot fish was going into his 6 foot tank i told him that i wouldnt sell him the fish untill he got a bigger tank, he was pretty angry. 
I hope you find a good shop to work at where you will encourage customers to buy whats good instead of whats expensive.


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## azn4114 (Jul 21, 2009)

not surprising!everyone knows its all about money first,the amount of times i have heard of them suggesting a full size oscar can live in a 2 foot tank for its entire life


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## Khagan (Jul 21, 2009)

Wall of text... Tldr.


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## discomat (Jul 21, 2009)

hmm maybe it's a qld thing I was in one recenlty and a customer was interested in the snakes they had, he had no licence and new nothing but thought they were cool. they wanted to sell him a spotted python (regular not blonde) for about 450 by itself no click clack. the salesperson was rambling on about how these pets are expensive but are really worth it, and even gave him a website to get his rep licence. they spotted was tiny for his age and didnt look like it was from any impressive bloodlines etc. as soon as the salesperson walked away to get the man a piece of paper with details of the rep licence website I told him to the salesperson is full of **** spotteds are cheap as, walk away and go to APS and get HEALTHY FAIR PRICED SNAKES from, actual breeders who know what they are talking about. and he did. the salesperson didnt like me much after that


Having said that though there is a pet shop at the HYPERDOME which sells reptiles, I was speaking to the guy there he seems to really care about them and know some stuff about them and kept his reptiles in good nick.


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

azn114 thats a valid point as well, a few years ago i was setting up my first fish tank, a small tropical when i saw some tiger oscars they were cheap and looked cool so my dad asked the guy if they could go with my serpae tetras and small rainbow and red tail sharks, he said definately, i went home and looked around on the internet and found out how large they get and they really arnt community fish. When i went back and questioned him he said all tropical fish can live together because they do in the wild!!


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## azn4114 (Jul 21, 2009)

pet country has healthy snakes,i know the dude that takes care of them and he is one of us(animal lover)he actually does look after the snakes and birds(there his specialties)spotted go for $290 there,so a bit up there but better than $450


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## discomat (Jul 21, 2009)

yeah once I losted 3 out of 4 oscars because one of the feeder fish I bought was diseased. could only save one. and another time we were sold a breed of sucker fish that only lives on algae as a juvinile, but when they get older (they will try) and suck the mucus off the other fish's skin like a parasite. Unfortunately the slowest fish in the tank died from it. looked it up on the net and sure enough there it is. but the fish shop said they are fine.


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

discomat said:


> Having said that though there is a pet shop at the HYPERDOME which sells reptiles, I was speaking to the guy there he seems to really care about them and know some stuff about them and kept his reptiles in good nick.



yeah dont get me wrong there are those pet-shops who sell reptiles who know all about their requirments and love them and wouldnt sell them to just any-one!! but those r the smaller private owned pet-stores..im talking about these big undustry major pet-stores..they r corrupt n use-less,alos they double the rpice of everything they sell....also there isnt enough aktual reptile pet -stores in QLD, like they have in VIC or in ADEL and SYD..i think it is mainly a QLD thing! and its sad...


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## azn4114 (Jul 21, 2009)

reptilefan95 said:


> azn114 thats a valid point as well, a few years ago i was setting up my first fish tank, a small tropical when i saw some tiger oscars they were cheap and looked cool so my dad asked the guy if they could go with my serpae tetras and small rainbow and red tail sharks, he said definately, i went home and looked around on the internet and found out how large they get and they really arnt community fish. When i went back and questioned him he said all tropical fish can live together because they do in the wild!!


 that why its good to research instead of impulse buys,im not sure if there liers or just dumb but i couldnt give someone bullshit info,


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## discomat (Jul 21, 2009)

azn4114 said:


> pet country has healthy snakes,i know the dude that takes care of them and he is one of us(animal lover)he actually does look after the snakes and birds(there his specialties)spotted go for $290 there,so a bit up there but better than $450


 
at logan central? My mum loves that place gets her fish from there.


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## azn4114 (Jul 21, 2009)

discomat said:


> at logan central? My mum loves that place gets her fish from there.


 yep thats the one


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

azn4114 said:


> that why its good to research instead of impulse buys,im not sure if there liers or just dumb but i couldnt give someone bullshit info,


 
Yeah I for one have been known to reaserch well i advance but we get some people that randomly decide that we want to buy the pretty one even though it might out grow some people.


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## Cheyne_Jones (Jul 21, 2009)

The only pet stores I will even walk inside on the Gold Coast are Pet Crazy at Robina or Gold Coast Pet Centre in Burleigh. 

Both of these places have staff that have a bit to do with reptiles (which should be a must), you still get the odd fool that has no idea and only wants to upsell you with stuff you dont want or need, but on the whole IMO they are great.

Most pet shops only have dollars on their mind (I have worked at a few, including the one your talking about), so I personally wont go near any shop that has low standards for care or shops that employ minimum wage twits that are forced to annoy customers until they buy stuff that is unsiutable.


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## Colin (Jul 21, 2009)

none of this surprises me.. shops have to make money and have overheads etc.. but when dealing with live animals they should offer more accurate advice and look after them correctly. 

why would anyone ever deal with a pet shop in the first place for live animals when superior quality can always be sourced from private breeders? pet shops would also be a russian roulette for things like OPMV, disease, mites, worms etc 

and as far as rodents go.. pet shops are rip offs.. rodents can be sourced from private breeders much cheaper and superior quality and freshness in my opinion.

and moving on to accessories, enclosures etc.. these can also be obtained from specialist online stores like URS and Herpshop etc and delivered usually within a few days.. enclosures can be custom made by blokes like dickyknee from this website and are fantastic quality, excellent value and professionally made.. and Im sure theres others in other states too for enclosures. hatchie tubs and hides (inverted plant water dishes etc) can be sourced from K-mart, nurseries, bunnings, $2 shops etc.

why would anyone want to be ripped off by pet shops that basically dont care about their animals, dont really care about their customers, dont give accurate advice and just want to fleece you of your hard earned money as quick as possible? :lol:


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## ShaunMorelia (Jul 21, 2009)

what he said....


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

Yep


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## miss2 (Jul 21, 2009)

yes a lot of owners are dollar hungry but some of the staff generally care.
i used to manage 2 big chain stores, now our main source of income was our puppy sales, my boss got them from a " breeder" (puppy farm), one day we had a very sick bunch come in. they ended up having parvo virus - those of u who know about pups would know how deadly this is. anyway parvo virus lives in the ground for up to 10 years. long story short 3 of the 6 pups died after extensive vet treatment, but yet my boss still insisted on buying from this " breeder" over the next 2 years i had up to 200 pups get ill with the virus and another stomach issue- giardia. the boss wouldnt pay for the approiate saintiser from the vet that would remove this disease, he also started refusing to let me get the nimals vet care.
i put nurmous complaints into the RSPCA and i ended up making a deal with The vet and paying for the animals treatment out of my own pocket. 
he also wasent paying me my wages on time nor was he paying tax or super.he wasent paying the suppliers or his rent.everyone used to say to me " y dont u leave" i could though, if it wasent for me and some of my staff so many animals would suffer.
eventually i got work place relations to listen to my plea and it all came to a stop - hes now serving a jail sentence.
oh, i also used to get in trouble if i denied people a sale but i sure as hell wasent going to sell themt he wrong product or sell them an animal they were not caipable of looking after.


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## Lewy (Jul 21, 2009)

Colin said:


> none of this surprises me.. shops have to make money and have overheads etc.. but when dealing with live animals they should offer more accurate advice and look after them correctly.
> 
> why would anyone ever deal with a pet shop in the first place for live animals when superior quality can always be sourced from private breeders? pet shops would also be a russian roulette for things like OPMV, disease, mites, worms etc
> 
> ...


 

Couldn't agree more


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## tonesanlainie (Jul 21, 2009)

I think the main issue is that shops have a duty of care for the welfare of the livestock they sell. I think at the same time that not all pet shops are the same. Whilst there are examples of very poor shops there are also some very good shops. At the end of the day responsible pet shops have their place. And a responsible pet shop is one that has morals (this also costs money) and so they may also charge for this so expect to pay a price premium. I have read comments on how sometimes pet shops rip people off by charging over inflated prices, well this is what may be necessary for a shop to act responsibly. Of course some are irresponsible and charge too much as well. But what I am trying to say is if you dont like the shop, or their practices then obviously dont buy from them. Those that do act responsibly should be supported wherever possible. If someone whom is unaware to walk into a pet shop, let it be a supported and ethical shop, that has high standards. Those that dont will overshone by those that do. Unfortunately customers are often dollar consious as well, and many will want bargain prices to compete with thise shops that can afford to cut corners. In an ideal world all customers would put dollars with ethics. I am not saying we should all buy from pet shops, just that they have a place. My first python came from a pet shop, if I need a replacement ceramic in a hurry I buy one, and dont complain about the price. If I am thoughtful I have a spare. 

BTW I am in no way employed or own a livestock business, just dont like people complaining about prices, unless it involves irresponsible practises.


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## Mangles (Jul 21, 2009)

Colin said:


> none of this surprises me.. shops have to make money and have overheads etc.. but when dealing with live animals they should offer more accurate advice and look after them correctly.
> 
> why would anyone ever deal with a pet shop in the first place for live animals when superior quality can always be sourced from private breeders? pet shops would also be a russian roulette for things like OPMV, disease, mites, worms etc
> 
> ...



Could not agree more. I just lost a sale of a Stimsons hatchling to a Pet Store and the person paid $220 more from the pet store than what I was selling for. It was their first snake and they feel safer dealing with a large Pet Store than somebody they do not know. I have been into this store many times and quite often when I am in there the snakes cages are dirty with stale faeces and no water. I know the manager there, and she is very knowledgable about reptiles, but I doubt any of the other staff are, and they are just too busy to look after all the animals properly like most (not all) breeders would.

I did not say anything to this person, as they had already decided and it would have sounded like sour grapes on my behalf, and I hope it all turns out well for them. 

I just hope they did not get ripped off with all the other accessories and food. Whenever I sell a snake to a Novice, I tell them where they can buy products from on line and put them on to some private rodent breeders, plus I am always available to answer any questions. I would even be prepared to help these people out if they have any problems with the hatchling they just bough even though it was not from me.


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

tonesanlainie said:


> I think the main issue is that shops have a duty of care for the welfare of the livestock they sell. I think at the same time that not all pet shops are the same. Whilst there are examples of very poor shops there are also some very good shops. At the end of the day responsible pet shops have their place. And a responsible pet shop is one that has morals (this also costs money) and so they may also charge for this so expect to pay a price premium. I have read comments on how sometimes pet shops rip people off by charging over inflated prices, well this is what may be necessary for a shop to act responsibly. Of course some are irresponsible and charge too much as well. But what I am trying to say is if you dont like the shop, or their practices then obviously dont buy from them. Those that do act responsibly should be supported wherever possible. If someone whom is unaware to walk into a pet shop, let it be a supported and ethical shop, that has high standards. Those that dont will overshone by those that do. Unfortunately customers are often dollar consious as well, and many will want bargain prices to compete with thise shops that can afford to cut corners. In an ideal world all customers would put dollars with ethics. I am not saying we should all buy from pet shops, just that they have a place. My first python came from a pet shop, if I need a replacement ceramic in a hurry I buy one, and dont complain about the price. If I am thoughtful I have a spare.
> 
> BTW I am in no way employed or own a livestock business, just dont like people complaining about prices, unless it involves irresponsible practises.



blah blah blah..what?? the hell r u on about!?? my post was hardly and not really directed on prices being to high! but they do over price some of their products mate...thats besides the point..i metioned a lil bit of over -pricing but this thread was AIMED at the way SOME of them treat their animals badly,sell them to just any-one and just dont know anything about the product they are selling! so enough with the mathematical crap! also i have stated not all shops are like this!....only some! mainly the big PET SUPERSTORE chains!...thats all the pricing in pet shops is another issues,maybe u can start a thread about it.


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## DragonOwner (Jul 21, 2009)

We have 2 pet stores here ones called krazy critters where i got my bearded dragon i should say rescued. Well they housed 4 3 month old 6 inche long babies in a 4ft tank with just an undertank heat mat. They had a compact bulb in there enclosure but don't think it was a uvb one as it was thin and small. When i went in my beardie wasn't very active just laid there probably due to the fact that it wasn't warm enough and weren't feed properly. Just found out they were only feeding them 4 crickets a day one day,next day veggies,then the next day 4 mealworms. We all know that young bearded dragons need protein everyday and eat as much as they can in 10 minutes 2 to 3 times a day and offer veggies everyday too. They weren't giving calcium powder either, just offered water in bowl no spraying to lick up droplets of water. Said that my girls dad is a red phase mum is normal not sure if i believe this. Thank god Safira was only there for a couple of days till i got her enclosure set up and got paid.
The other pet store is called fish an things there a bit better but not by much there turtles are kept in a 2ft tank all water with just one rock sticking out of the water, Theres like 6 to 7 turtles in this tank so they fight over the rock that is sticking out of the water. One of there green tree frogs has a lump on its back which they will not do anything for it. One of there mexian walking fish had wounds all over it and had fungus growing on it, it ended up dieing. They reckon my bearded dragon is going to die at 6 months of age. 
We have got a petstock here too which also sells some reptiles,fish and birds. There no better there bearded dragon they have in there is 6 months old and is only 6inches long.. They only feed it like 8 crickets every other day,veggies everyday. All these pet stores here care for the money, out of all of them fish an things is the best. Price wise bearded dragons from krazy critters go for $105each,petstock $110each fish an things $90each. They all give out the wrong advice to people.


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

agreed sean and mangles sean was only saying that it troubles him that people in petshops only care about selling there products or livestock even if they know its not right, he didnt say anything except they do have very high prices most of the time and why would you pay a premium price for a subpar specimen??


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## discomat (Jul 21, 2009)

it's a wonder how any pet shop manages to sell pets. these days, there are plenty of breeders around for just about any animal. Breeders are almost always cheaper, more knowledgable and usually cared for better. the only thing i can see pet shops are good for are specialty items and impulse buys. plus if a private breeder rips you off or something you can always go back to their house late at night and egg their house and wrap glad-wrap over their car.


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## chondrogreen (Jul 21, 2009)

What do you expect being argumentative to the boss lol.
Oh and a 4ft long x 2ft high enclosure is perfectly fine for a 5ft Coatal. 
Business is business. In any business venture sales come 1st, stock 2nd & customers 3rd.
When there is overheads, mark ups, wages and other commodoties involved money usually takes priority. 
Not saying it is right or wrong but thats how it goes in ALL facets of business although some have higher standards of morals then others.


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## miss2 (Jul 21, 2009)

pricing for fish where i worked was cost price x 3 plus 10 %


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## reptilefan95 (Jul 21, 2009)

miss2 thats alot! infact way too much where did your shop buy holesale??


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> What do you expect being argumentative to the boss lol.
> Oh and a 4ft long x 2ft high enclosure is perfectly fine for a 5ft Coatal.
> Business is business. In any business venture sales come 1st, stock 2nd & customers 3rd.
> When there is overheads, mark ups, wages and other commodoties involved money usually takes priority.
> Not saying it is right or wrong but thats how it goes in ALL facets of business although some have higher standards of morals then others.



where does it say i was arguementative to the "boss!"..i NEARLY got arguementive to a "STAFF" member telling me "YOU CANT USE HEAT-MATS WITH REPTILES ANYMORE"...umm and on the coastal part!coastals do get BIGGER.. it was ment to b a trick question by him!!..he obviosly was saying a small enclosure to see what i would say about it....or why else would he ask that..u sound like u work in a place that has good work ethics..ahaha..must be a BOSS yourself or one of those boss butt sniffers for you to defend against what i posted this thread about.


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## chondrogreen (Jul 21, 2009)

seanjbkorbett said:


> where does it say i was arguementative to the "boss!"..i NEARLY got arguementive to a "STAFF" member telling me "YOU CANT USE HEAT-MATS WITH REPTILES ANYMORE"...umm and on the coastal part!coastals do get BIGGER.. it was ment to b a trick question by him!!..he obviosly was saying a small enclosure to see what i would say about it....or why else would he ask that..u sound like u work in a place that has good work ethics..ahaha..must be a BOSS yourself or one of those boss butt sniffers for you to defend against what i posted this thread about.


 
No need to get all narky about it.
And I am as far as they come from a butt sniffer as you will find.
As for being a boss, sure I run several businesses and understand the concept of making money (something you just don't learn on the dole)

BTW, I am not defending anyone. Just pointing out the obvious so you may actually find employment in the future. You were argumentative with the boss by insinuating that the animals care should be priority one even after he stated the customer comes 1st. You were nearly argumentative (what did you just think about your debate to yourself lol) with another staff member & you made it clear to the employer that you have concerns regarding the way the shop prioritise or runs. This is why you don't work there or any other Petshop atm. I agree with you that their priorities suck, as do most bussinesses. As I said before some have better morals then others but ALL are going to be about the money JMHO.

And regardless of the size of snake, a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal Carpet. 
And they are not full Arboreal, they are only semi arboreal. The height is not as important as it would be for GTP's for example.
IMO the height & length would suit an adult carpet. I have used the same size enclosure for all carpet species (smaller for Jungles)


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> I am not defending anyone. Just stating the obvious so you may actually get employment in the future lol. You were argumentative with the boss by insinuating that the animals care should be priority one even after he stated the customer comes 1st. If you wanted the job you should of kept your mouth shut. Regardless of size a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal carpet. And they are not Arboreal, they are semi arboreal. The height & length would suit an adult carpet.
> 
> No need to get all narky about it.
> I am far from a butt sniffer lol or a boss.
> But I do run several businesses and understand the concept of making money (something you just don't learn on the dole)



the dole..iam employed (dam for a guy that runs businesses u cant read very well,ahaha)....no i think u got it wrong! HE put me in a SCENeRIO mate!..cos i was applying for the job! he said to me "okay now ill put you in a scenerio and tell me what you would say)..so i told him what I would say! and no a 4ft long by 2ft high would not be okay for a 5ft coastal carpet and defintly stunt its growth and i will not change my opinion on that..that guy BOSS u call it,whanted to hear what i would say..so i told him..it wasnt a argeument,it was a normal interview shook hands talked etc..but he is still a D i K for the way he runs that store,turtle fungus,no water for the reptiles...etc..and this thread was AIMED at BAD PETSTORES not on me not getting the job at NERANG PETBARN..ahaha..after meeting a BOSS like that,thank god dude! you probably wouldnt whant to work with him either...andthe part where u say i said the animals priority is number one! That was a FEMALE..not a him and i ddint argue with her either..it was my trial day and she asked me what came first basically..and i said animals.iam sorry i said animals...but i cannot work happy if i knew i lied to them to get the job...animals always should come first..as most rela animal lovers and breeders would know...any way enough of that,u just mis-read the post,and u and me have differnt opinions on what size a coastals carpets enclosure should be.. thats all.
cheers.


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## jessb (Jul 21, 2009)

seanjbkorbett said:


> yeah dont get me wrong there are those pet-shops who sell reptiles who know all about their requirments and love them and wouldnt sell them to just any-one!! but those r the smaller private owned pet-stores..im talking about these big undustry major pet-stores..they r corrupt n use-less,alos they double the rpice of everything they sell....also there isnt enough aktual reptile pet -stores in QLD, like they have in VIC or in ADEL and SYD..i think it is mainly a QLD thing! and its sad...


 
In NSW reptiles aren't allowed to be sold in pet shops at all, and can only be displayed if the shop holds a display license. 



seanjbkorbett said:


> blah blah blah..what?? the hell r u on about!?? my post was hardly and not really directed on prices being to high! but they do over price some of their products mate...thats besides the point..i metioned a lil bit of over -pricing but this thread was AIMED at the way SOME of them treat their animals badly,sell them to just any-one and just dont know anything about the product they are selling! so enough with the mathematical crap! also i have stated not all shops are like this!....only some! mainly the big PET SUPERSTORE chains!...thats all the pricing in pet shops is another issues,maybe u can start a thread about it.


 
Sean, perhaps you should be a bit more respectful of someone who has taken the time to include a thoughtful, well-punctuated, spell-checked post on your thread and at least read it properly before you flame them! tonesanlainie was pointing out that if you demand a high level of care for the animals in a pet shop, then you can also expect to pay higher prices which many people are unwilling to do. As far as I can tell it was completely on topic and I found it quite interesting!

As far as the topic goes, surely any good businessperson knows that a single sale with no repeat business is worth next to nothing. It costs about 3 times as much to recruit a new customer than it does to retain an existing one (not too much mathematical crap for you is it, Sean?) They should be focusing on creating repeat business by proving that their products (ie their animals) are healthy, well-kept and of top quality and their additional services like advice and customer service are also excellent. And as customers we should be willing to pay a slightly higher price for this service and support the businesses that are doing the right thing.


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## miss2 (Jul 21, 2009)

reptilefan95
we were obligied to use AI but sometimes i would sneak in bay order. lol it was stupidly a lot... that was one of the things we didnt have a choice in, it was written in to the contract from being a franchise store.
if a comet cost us $1.10 each then i would have to x 3 it and plus 10 % = $3.65


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## miss2 (Jul 21, 2009)

i think, lol ben a while since i have done that maths LOL


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## Lewy (Jul 21, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> No need to get all narky about it.
> 
> 
> And regardless of the size of snake, a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal Carpet.
> ...


 

WOW I'm glad I'm not a carpet snake living with you!!!!


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

jessb said:


> In NSW reptiles aren't allowed to be sold in pet shops at all, and can only be displayed if the shop holds a display license.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



start a thread about it love!.....this was about pet-shops i thought did not do the right thing........im over it!.hate back n forth arguements.each to their own...iam annoyed with the way some large pet-stores run!...thats all.
cheers Sean.


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## seanjbkorbett (Jul 21, 2009)

sorry to all if i came across rude or did not spell words correct enough for you!as i did not create this 2 be a arguementative thread,sorry if it came across that way..all opinions and views should be respected then,this is my last post.


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## chondrogreen (Jul 21, 2009)

Lewy said:


> WOW I'm glad I'm not a carpet snake living with you!!!!


 
Opinions will vary, but the average size (that is AVERAGE size) of Coastals is 8ft. 
Some will grow a bit bigger, some alot bigger and others smaller but on average 8ft seems to be common ground not just IMO but also in many writings on Herpetology. 
As a rule of thumb for housing Pythons you can use the following to find the minimum dimensions of enclosure to use. 

*Terrestrial & semi arboreal Python* = 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/4 the body length = 4x2x2ft for an 8ft Python.
*Arboreal Python* = 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/4 the body length = 4x4x2ft enclosure for an 8ft Python.

Of course the bigger the better in any situation but as a minimum a 4x2x2 would be perfectly fine for a Coastal. 
BTW I havn't read anything on the NPWS enclosure standards but I am pretty confident they would probably use the same rule of thumb as reference for minimum standards (But I am sure to be corrected if wrong lol)


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## Lewy (Jul 21, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> Opinions will vary, but the average size (that is AVERAGE size) of Coastals is 8ft.
> Some will grow a bit bigger, some alot bigger and others smaller but on average 8ft seems to be common ground not just IMO but also in many writings on Herpetology.
> As a rule of thumb for housing Pythons you can use the following to find the minimum dimensions of enclosure to use.
> 
> ...


 

I'm so glad you told me the average size of a coastal as I would never of known this 

You can stick to those sizes if that's what you think is good


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## chondrogreen (Jul 21, 2009)

Lewy said:


> I'm so glad you told me the average size of a coastal as I would never of known this
> 
> You can stick to those sizes if that's what you think is good


 
As I said opinions will vary.
BUT umm where did I say it is good?
I said "minimum size" and I stated that it was "perfectly fine" which it is according to hundreds of keepers that currently use 4x2x2's lol.
I also said "of course bigger is better" which is the case with any captive situation, pretty obvious huh. But your the 1 arguing over it.
And to think some people even use tray rack systems. OMG lol


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## Andrais (Jul 21, 2009)

I hate the god damn place called pet paridise!!! there's so many of them, there like rats!
Never bought anything off them (becasue their so pricy i can't afford too!!) but i hate the way they give infomation and try and sell something to u, like its a market in the busy streets of New deli, India. And they keep changing owners its really annoying. There was this guy who owned the place on time who was a reptile guy like us, yeh his staff were alright, and he toned the prices down a bit, keep the piece, i was happy with the store in that day, but them this bi*th came along and took or the place and now its all gone down hill again. She has no idea of how to run the place, let alone know anything about animals, and she has this silly teenager working for her, whos a thick a a 1000 year old willow tree. Ahhhhh!!! were have all the good pet stores gone these days....arn't there anymore decent people around...or have they all taken a rocket ship to mars to find a better place to set up there loving, kind, clean pet stores..well never know


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## WombleHerp (Jul 21, 2009)

I have recently started in a pet shop for about 3-4 weeks now, the conitions of the reptiles was TERRIBLE. I took the job because i needed the money, and i felt sorry for all the reptiles that are there.

NOT ONE staff member knows anything about them, and i came in there, major problems i found. I do not like pet shops either, im just one of those who comes in, gives good advice to customers and doesnt sell just because its a sale. 
I make sure i know what im selling, if its the right thing to sell, etc. so i guess i could say there are us out there who bring something out of the dirt so to speak haha.. although i might not be there for too much longer! we'll see how it all plays out.


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## bk201 (Jul 21, 2009)

a few years back i did some work experience in a petshop at plumpton which didnt open until the basic needs of all the animals were met.

nice people family owned same as alot of older good petshops , unfortunately like many other small good shops it closed down....who can compete with scammers at these new shops...

when i was up on holidays in qld i walked into a petshop which unlike nsw had reptiles for sale... a guy tryed to sell me a tiny spotted python like <15cm for $300 and tryed to tell me i can buy it and go to the government department up there and get a permit to take it home...i walked out straight after...the reptiles looked healthy and was kept clean etc but stupid advice trying to make a sale


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## wokka (Jul 21, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> Opinions will vary, but the average size (that is AVERAGE size) of Coastals is 8ft.
> Some will grow a bit bigger, some alot bigger and others smaller but on average 8ft seems to be common ground not just IMO but also in many writings on Herpetology.
> As a rule of thumb for housing Pythons you can use the following to find the minimum dimensions of enclosure to use.
> 
> ...



Just for the record NPWS dont use that as a rule of thumb. I would hate for yet another internet opinion to be considered correct just because it is written.


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## derekm (Jul 21, 2009)

It isn't just pet shops, it's all types of businesses. Mobile phone shops staffed by people that know nothing more about phones that what the brochure says, computers shops staffed by people that can't even spell CPU, etc, etc, etc. The business model for many of these places is based on a small business owner working their butts off for long hours for less than they'd earn in wages, employing minimum wage staff, doing as much cash business as possible, and affording to live by disguising as many of their personal expenses against the business's book earnings as they think they can get away with.

IMO the only way to deal with this type of business environment is to make sure that, before you enter a shop, you know more about what you want to buy than any salesperson you are likely to meet . Alternatively, search for a supplier whose love for what they are selling, not just the money, is obvious. (They're out there and when you find one, you'll know.) Helping people find those suppliers is one of the ways in which forums like this really provide value.


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## Andie (Jul 21, 2009)

A response from the other side... Please note that this is NOT directed at any particular poster but at the commonly held ideas which I see time and time again in my animal fora.

Not all pet shops are bad. Pricing is one thing animal care is another. If the prices are too high then go somewhere else. If the animals are not cared for, there is no excuse. I love my work.

This is such a difficult topic. Hobbyists are very passionate about their particular kind of animal. What I have seen consistently across fish, bird and reptile fora is that hobbyists dislike pet shops and think that the people who work in them are useless and money hungry. This of course is a generalisation because like all businesses there are good ones and bad ones.

I have worked in a privately owned (ie not Pet's Purgatory) for almost 4 years now. When I started I knew nothing but learned quickly. We try our best to talk people out of buying goldfish for bowls because we know they will die. We tell people not to buy more fish that day because their water quality is off. They appreciate this and come back because we have shown them that we actually care. Nothing is more satisfying than catching up with a customer who we have helped solve a problem.

Yes the markup is high. But consider the fish stock that arrive diseased and sick and need to be humanely put down. Not anything our fault but costs $$$. Consider that we do very little business during the week, it is all about Sat and Sun, but still staff are needed every day. Consider that sometimes we have juvenile reptiles for months because people don't want to pay for the heat and the uv and the things they need so we don't sell them the animal. It is just the way of retail. At the end of the day, it is a business and the costs of operating have to be covered with some profit left.

I personally like to look and hold and feel things that I buy for my pets and prefer to pay pet shop prices rather than online. That is my choice though.

My conclusion on what to do is don't go to pet shops if you don't like them. If you see dodgy goings on in a pet shop, talk to the manager and if they blow you off get ecoaccess involved. Let's want petshops to be better. 

If you MUST tell the customer to go to a breeder instead, please follow them to their car and don't do it in front of me. I can't control the prices in the store I work at and it is a rude and disrespectful thing to do to me. I would not walk into a jewellery store and do it. 

Besides, breeders, how many of you sell snakes to people who saw a spotted in a pet store and fell in love and now want the snakes which we can not sell. You've not got much competition from us (unless you are a spotted breeder).

Finally, I just want to say that not everyone in a pet store knows everything about every animal the store sells. If you overhear a salesperson who appears lost, respectfully offer a suggestion and help us be better members of and animal community.

*gets off soapbox*


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