# breeding loan mix up.



## Kirby (Dec 1, 2009)

no names to be mentioned. 

my dragon, which was entrusted as a breeding loan. has been sold off. what would your course of action be?


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## wiz-fiz (Dec 1, 2009)

tell the guy he owes u a fine looking BD.


Will


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## Jason (Dec 1, 2009)

never do another breeding loan.


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## ADZz_93 (Dec 1, 2009)

go nuts at the person who did it, lol.
if it was a breeding loan, there should have been a contract? do what ever was written on that


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## JasonL (Dec 1, 2009)

Jason said:


> never do another breeding loan.



:lol: well he can't without his dragon


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## wranga (Dec 1, 2009)

thats why you dont make breeding deals with anyone. if you dont own a pair, then dont breed. guess you can only get the amount of money that your reptile was sold for, thats if you trust the person is being truthfull with the amount they tell you they sold it for. then put this down to experience and remember not to let the greed of money from breeding sway you to make the same mistake again. trust no one


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## bkevo (Dec 1, 2009)

get physical


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## Khagan (Dec 1, 2009)

I'd be demanding it back, sounds like a crock of **** to me that it would 'just happen to be mixed up'.


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## CodeRed (Dec 1, 2009)

JasonL said:


> :lol: well he can't without his dragon



well he could buy it back, then loan it out again


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## Kris (Dec 1, 2009)

Holey moley, that's no good Kirby.


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## bk201 (Dec 1, 2009)

which dragon was this, and why is it a mix up,


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## sweetangel (Dec 1, 2009)

dude that sucks!! maybe you could track down the buyer and explain what happened. i'd hate to say it but you would probably have to pay them to get it back even then only if they agreed.
I think ur stuck! maybe ask the person you lent it to to give you some free babies as compensation or at least the money they got from selling ur dragon!


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## Shmacky (Dec 1, 2009)

I'd just pop into your local cop shop and see what they have to say about the matter. Convincing them to have a little chat with the guy might just make them a little more 'helpful'.

If I buy a stolen car unknowingly, the car is returned to its owner. It's my bad luck. Same would go here, just harder proving it was yours etc.

Certainly an ugly situation to be in however.

Good luck.

Shmacky


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## Kyro (Dec 1, 2009)

Depends, if you think it's a genuine mistake then I'd be demanding they sort it out quick smart with who ever they sold it to & get back your animal, if you feel you have been conned then i'd seek legal advice & take it from there.


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## Saz (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh gees, I hope it isn't the beardie I am thinking it is. Shocking. Just one of the reasons I don't do breeding loans, you just can't trust some people.

If you have written proof of the contract, I'd definitely seek legal advice. The police won't do anything, it isn't a theft, its more of a breach of contract if in fact there was a contract.

Hope you find adequate resolution, completely sucks


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## potato matter (Dec 1, 2009)

Take it to the police. People shouldn't be able to get away with this sort of thing. How do you accidentally sell a BD???


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## Kirby (Dec 1, 2009)

i have spoken with the person who now owns the dragon, and am awaiting a reply from the person who sold it. 

i do very much feel bad for the new owner. could you imagin being in that situation?

i moved house, and had to sell up, give away or loan, my entire collection. now im stable and building it back up. and now to find this out. jesus christ, is no body decent these days with reptiles?


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## Kirby (Dec 1, 2009)

Saz said:


> Oh gees, I hope it isn't the beardie I am thinking it is. Shocking. Just one of the reasons I don't do breeding loans, you just can't trust some people.
> 
> If you have written proof of the contract, I'd definitely seek legal advice. The police won't do anything, it isn't a theft, its more of a breach of contract if in fact there was a contract.
> 
> Hope you find adequate resolution, completely sucks



yeah, she is in good hands now tho. this needs to be dealt with. 

i have a history of Private messages.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 1, 2009)

name and shame!!!!!!!


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## Mrs I (Dec 1, 2009)

Some people ! What happened to do unto others ....


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## IgotFrogs (Dec 1, 2009)

Gecko name and shame isnt the answer and it dosent help the situation ..... 


Good Luck with getting this sorted out ....


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## Brown_Hair (Dec 1, 2009)

The police wont do anything, and as bad as i feel for you it is a waste or police resources.


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## Jay84 (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh what a shame..................


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 1, 2009)

IgotFrogs said:


> Gecko name and shame isnt the answer and it dosent help the situation .....
> 
> 
> Good Luck with getting this sorted out ....


Maybe, maybe not 
at least we will know who is dodgy
I think if he does not get it sorted out as in the guy returns his bd free of charge then a naming is deserved


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## =bECS= (Dec 1, 2009)

Is that the same one advertised here for free, because it was given to them to be looked after by someone and they didnt want it back?


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## Jay84 (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm wondering how long this ''loan'' was for?


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## Brown_Hair (Dec 1, 2009)

If they needed your dragon for a loan then i would think they either only had the one dragon or wanted yours for specific colours or such. Either way how can they then accidently sell it? DODGY!


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## trickedoutz31 (Dec 2, 2009)

name the person!!!!! the public should be advised on who is untrustworthy on this forum!!!!!!!!! pluss they need a flaming!!


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## ashisnothereman (Dec 2, 2009)

trickedoutz31 said:


> name the person!!!!! the public should be advised on who is untrustworthy on this forum!!!!!!!!! pluss they need a flaming!!



i agree with this. dodgy people need to be exposed to prevent others getting ripped off in the future.


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## method (Dec 2, 2009)

Talk to your solicitor is your best option


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## geckodan (Dec 2, 2009)

Been there, done that - not much you can do once its on their permit. Written contracts mean little if they weren't witnessed and signed.


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## mwloco (Dec 2, 2009)

I dont know how you ACCIDENTALLY sell a beardie. That is so suss.

Did you tranfer the lizard to his license? I dont know how he sold it if it wasnt on his license. I hope you had something like a written deal/contract.

Does the guy admit his mistake and WANT to make it better? Or is he claiming that he thought you didnt want it back anyway?

Im sure the buyer doesnt like to be in this situation. sounds very strange. How long have they had the beardie?


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## wokka (Dec 2, 2009)

There is normally two sides to a story.I wonder if the seller might think they sold a BD which you gave them?


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## Jay84 (Dec 2, 2009)

How long did he have the animal? I was under the impression you havnt had reptiles for quite some time? Had u asked him to look after it? Had you been providing food? Had this person asked u on occasion to take the animal back?

For all this who want to name and shame, you don't know the full story?


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## Kirby (Dec 2, 2009)

Jay84 said:


> How long did he have the animal? I was under the impression you havnt had reptiles for quite some time? Had u asked him to look after it? Had you been providing food? Had this person asked u on occasion to take the animal back?
> 
> For all this who want to name and shame, you don't know the full story?



the animal was only on his licence for 6 months or less. i would assume he has made alot of money out of this...


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## FAY (Dec 2, 2009)

trickedoutz31 said:


> name the person!!!!! the public should be advised on who is untrustworthy on this forum!!!!!!!!! pluss they need a flaming!!



Be aware that is against the site rules to do this.


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## ozziepythons (Dec 2, 2009)

Jay84 said:


> How long did he have the animal? I was under the impression you havnt had reptiles for quite some time? Had u asked him to look after it? Had you been providing food? Had this person asked u on occasion to take the animal back?
> 
> For all this who want to name and shame, you don't know the full story?


 
I have to agree with Jay, from the sounds of it you moved and fragmented your collection, and after some time when again stable, wanted the dragon back. Not that I condone the selling of the dragon that wasn't theirs to sell, but its not like it was an agreed quick breeding season job and then the prompt return of the dragon. The person obviously assumed some sort of ownership after your ordeal?


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## Kirby (Dec 2, 2009)

ozziepythons said:


> I have to agree with Jay, from the sounds of it you moved and fragmented your collection, and after some time when again stable, wanted the dragon back. Not that I condone the selling of the dragon that wasn't theirs to sell, but its not like it was an agreed quick breeding season job and then the prompt return of the dragon. The person obviously assumed some sort of ownership after your ordeal?



the animal wasnt fully grown or ready to breed. it wasnt an effortless breed off job.


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## Kirby (Dec 2, 2009)

GARTHNFAY said:


> Be aware that is against the site rules to do this.



fully aware.


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## JasonL (Dec 2, 2009)

Kirby said:


> the animal wasnt fully grown or ready to breed. it wasnt an effortless breed off job.



How do you do a breeding loan with a animal that isn't an adult? You wanted them to grow it for you as well? Well thats where this kind of thing comes unstuck as often someone doesn't want to fork out more money than the animals worth in the hope that it will breed, then if the animal gets sick you may have to fork out for Vet expenses ect... It sounds like this deal was always going to go bad.


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## JasonL (Dec 2, 2009)

Did they actually sell it? or give it away to someone else to care for?


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## Colin (Dec 2, 2009)

JasonL said:


> How do you do a breeding loan with a animal that isn't an adult?



I was thinking the same thing..


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## chondrogreen (Dec 2, 2009)

Better give the other persons name.
I see the mob has an itch to scratch and they may just turn on you!


LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: LOL


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## dickyknee (Dec 2, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> Better give the other persons name.
> I see the mob has an itch to scratch and they may just turn on you!
> 
> 
> LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: LOL




Well some one has to be roasted :lol::lol:


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## Tojo (Dec 2, 2009)

Breeding loan with a bearded dragon not old enough to breed! Yeah thats logical


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## redbellybite (Dec 2, 2009)

Kirby if this was a legit deal then I am sorry it has turned sour ..but in saying that from whats been put up in the posts ..SOMETHING SMELLS A BIT SUS ...


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## CodeRed (Dec 2, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Kirby if this was a legit deal then I am sorry it has turned sour ..but in saying that from whats been put up in the posts ..SOMETHING SMELLS A BIT SUS ...



yeap, very fishy


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## =bECS= (Dec 2, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Kirby if this was a legit deal then I am sorry it has turned sour ..but in saying that from whats been put up in the posts ..SOMETHING SMELLS A BIT SUS ...



My thoughts exactly!
As for the lynch mob, remember there are always 2 sides to the story and the holes in this one are beginning to form


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## falconboy (Dec 2, 2009)

Maybe Kirby simply mis-described it being a 'breeding loan', when he really meant it was simply being cared for by someone else for some length of time and 'breeding loan' was an easier term to use.

I know _some_ of the younger ones on here aren't too sensible, but I never _really_ thought of Kirby as one of them. Maybe a little over-enthusiastic, but he's not an idiot, and I know he would not breed from an animal too young. 

So Kirby, you better not prove me wrong now young man.........


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## Jay84 (Dec 2, 2009)

As i said before to the lynch mob....... there are always two sides to every story.

It seems this ''Breeding loan'' may not have been a breeding loan at all? Not old enough to breed? As JasonL said, where is the logic in that?

Was it that your circumstances were less than ideal and the animal was offloaded onto this person? Whet were the exact arrangements if the animal was too young to breed? As i asked before, were you providing money for the maintenance of this animal as it wasn't just a quick ''breeding loan'' ? Growing a beardie is not exactly cheap.

Was there any timeframe stipulated, as to when you would be getting the dragon back from him? Have you been in contact with the other person during the time he had this beardie?


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## redbellybite (Dec 2, 2009)

Well looks like you narrowed it down to being a MALE that supposedly did this to you ...


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## ozianimals (Dec 2, 2009)

seek advice from EPA as the animal was not on lic long enough for them to sell unless approved by the EPA/National Parks and Wildlife.
They may then be able to order your animal back to the correct owner.


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## Weezer (Dec 2, 2009)

You may have no recourse to retrieve your "loaned" dragon. If the issue would go to court for example- the other party would argue that the transfer of the beardie to his licence effectively acted as a contract in that it was a mutual agreement which saw the transfer of ownership.

And if there was a misunderstanding, and you hit rock bottom, forcing you to give up your collection- and now you say the beardie is in "safe hands", isn't this a happy resolution and an unfortunate result of your previous problems. Perhaps a little swallowing of pride and acceptance that the beardie will be well taken care of may be in order, and preferable to counting the lost dollars. 

Obviously this is not like losing your beloved puppy- sounds more like a little lost cash is more the focus- no talk of sentiment or companionship- but more of financial remorse- it appears you hadn't seen the beardie for a long enough timeframe for the " breeding partner" to assume you no longer had any interest ????


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## Dave (Dec 2, 2009)

The Dragon wasn't a run of the mill dragon that is why he is upset.


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## Weezer (Dec 2, 2009)

They are NEVER run of the mill when they are ours though, are they ? Just like our children...

If there is one thing we all know- it's that there is no such thing as the ULTIMATE reptile- the for sale boards are updated hourly with reptiles that look better than the next. 

And my point was just proven Dave (not looking to flame mate ) - the issue seems to be the value of the dragon, and not it's welfare....and by OP's own admission, it seems the beardie is now being well looked after.


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## redbellybite (Dec 2, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Kirby if this was a legit deal then I am sorry it has turned sour ..but in saying that from whats been put up in the posts ..SOMETHING SMELLS A BIT SUS ...


 sorry Fayseeeeee ...SUS is more suitable for the site thanks for that :lol::lol::lol:


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## Chris1 (Dec 2, 2009)

Weezer said:


> They are NEVER run of the mill when they are ours though, are they ? Just like our children...
> 
> If there is one thing we all know- it's that there is no such thing as the ULTIMATE reptile- the for sale boards are updated hourly with reptiles that look better than the next.
> 
> And my point was just proven Dave (not looking to flame mate ) - the issue seems to be the value of the dragon, and not it's welfare....and by OP's own admission, it seems the beardie is now being well looked after.





i think i know which dragon hes talking about and it does have a pretty special mutation,....therefore is rare and probably quite valuable.

either way unless there was an exchange of $ and license deets between Kirby and the loanee the loanee should have contacted him to inform him of the impending sale,....


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## Dave (Dec 2, 2009)

It was a special animal to him, he could of sold it when he sold his other dragons. I thought he sold it to the person, he didn't tell me it was just a loan. If you knew what the animal is and you were in his shoes you would feel the same. But Kirby did dissapear for a while after he sold them (I am not sure if he kept in contact with the person about the dragon) so I assume the person sold it. The person he sold it to is a good bloke and i am sure he didn't do it on purpose to make kirby mad.

He gave it to the person with a purchase of other dragons.


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## Weezer (Dec 2, 2009)

Chris1 said:


> ......... is rare and probably quite valuable.





Weezer said:


> And my point was just proven ...... - the issue seems to be the value of the dragon, and not it's welfare....and by OP's own admission, it seems the beardie is now being well looked after.


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## CodeRed (Dec 2, 2009)

face it that beardie is goooneee.

I am sure the new owner will look after it well and produce plenty of offspring


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## Chris1 (Dec 2, 2009)

Weezer said:


>




my point was i can understand why hes peed off, not everyone keeps beardies purely for the cuddles,....


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## FAY (Dec 2, 2009)

Jay84 said:


> As i said before to the lynch mob....... there are always two sides to every story.



I always say that there are two sides to every story and the third one is probably the truth.....


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## Scleropages (Dec 2, 2009)

Kirby said:


> no names to be mentioned.
> 
> my dragon, which was entrusted as a breeding loan. has been sold off. what would your course of action be?


 
Depending on what has happend. I woulden't stop till I got my dragon back.Start with the loan guy and go from there. But I don't know the full story.



Chris1 said:


> my point was i can understand why hes peed off, not everyone keeps beardies purely fro teh cuddles,....


 
Indeed. and scratch there little white tum tums 
Edit , oh! sorry thought you said EVERYONE KEEPS DRAGONS FOR THE CUDDLES , haha
(I like there eyes... but I coulden't eat a whole one)


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## billiemay (Dec 2, 2009)

Did the person you "leant" it to try to contact you during the 6 months to let you know they didn't want it any more?if it was too young to breed did you give them In any money to care for it? Did it cost them any medical expenses?

Unless they tried to contact you for a long time then you should be able to get some money or your beardie back.


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## Weezer (Dec 2, 2009)

Exactly Fay. Sometimes even the fourth..

Some of us ALSO breed Chris, but OP's incubator wasn't exactly bursting at the hinges, and loan or no-loan; if someone is looking after your possessions, and you go off the radar for a while and then find out that your goods are now gone- _at which point_- on which _day_- does the statute of limitations cease to apply ?? In my younger years I was guilty of it myself, and paid a price. 

But ask me now what the value of the loss was, and it isn't measured in monetary terms- it is measured in what I learnt from it.

If OP is back on his proverbial feet, then now is the time to rebuild, is it not... ?

spilt milk comes to mind..

I too understand the value of money- and am aware of the herp to which we are referring, and the lovely thing about money is that it allows one the luxury of purchasing things - but I also know that every note has a different serial number- so worrying about retrieving the lost ones is kinda silly when there are plenty of others with the same queen on them....

but swearing (even if to avoid the censors Chris) and diverting blame or responsibility is not going to make expensive beardies fall from the sky. But a good financial plan, a few personal goals, and remembering what it feels like to suffer a big loss, should be enough to start climbing the mountain again.

Things come, things go- but counting a loss when you could be focusing on the next GAIN is a waste of time. 

And yeah I just love to dress my expensive beardies up in Barbie costumes and name them after princesses and talk to them like newborns...then cuddle them and stroke their pretty faces-

.......right before they copulate and start filling my incubator with hondo's. 

See the difference is, I can make decisions and analysis based on common sense, regardless of any pretense.... and the fact you think I am just a cuddler means my judgements are not obviously coated in bling. That is a good thing.

Anyone got change for a Hundy ?$?$?$?$?$?$? ?

Yeah, it sucks that kirby lost one of his prize beardies- it hurts like hell....but the reality is he lost them WAY before his buddy sold them.


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## CodeRed (Dec 2, 2009)

some people are grossly exagerating the value of this beardie
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...nsects-5371/leatherback-bearded-dragon-110845


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## Brown_Hair (Dec 2, 2009)

Well ive lernt a lesson about jumping to conclusions lol. How quick things change, kirby, you stuffed up!!
VERY wise words from weezer throught the thread, agree with ya 100% mate!


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## jamesf55 (Dec 2, 2009)

just looks like an average beardie, I have seen heaps that look the same as that....


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## Weezer (Dec 2, 2009)

Yeah it's a very pretty beardie. But i am looking at around 5-10 posters in this thread that have albums, websites, AVAILABLE STOCK, and incubators full of pretty beardies.


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## kupper (Dec 2, 2009)

Bigger of a situation but not much can be done legally as it was a transaction legitamently recorded I'm sure


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 2, 2009)

Thats looks like it has minimal colour and scale reduction 
it would take many generations of line breeding that beardy to get a true leatherback


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## ozziepythons (Dec 2, 2009)

I think poor Kirby has learnt his lesson, his lost a dragon and been roasted on here for building up a 'breeding loan mix up' scenario that seems to be part his fault. It must have been hard for him to have to break up his collection in order to move, and obviously has regrets parting with that dragon. Lets hope he rebuilds his collection now his found his feet


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## Chris1 (Dec 3, 2009)

Weezer said:


> Exactly Fay. Sometimes even the fourth..
> 
> Some of us ALSO breed Chris, but OP's incubator wasn't exactly bursting at the hinges, and loan or no-loan; if someone is looking after your possessions, and you go off the radar for a while and then find out that your goods are now gone- _at which point_- on which _day_- does the statute of limitations cease to apply ?? In my younger years I was guilty of it myself, and paid a price.
> 
> ...



wow, all that dribble to respond to 2 little sentences,..lol,..nice to see i havent lost my abilty to upset people! 

btw wasnt referring to u being a cuddler, i dont know a thing about u!!!!


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## TURBO8 (Dec 3, 2009)

Weezer said:


> Exactly Fay. Sometimes even the fourth..
> 
> Some of us ALSO breed Chris, but OP's incubator wasn't exactly bursting at the hinges, and loan or no-loan; if someone is looking after your possessions, and you go off the radar for a while and then find out that your goods are now gone- _at which point_- on which _day_- does the statute of limitations cease to apply ?? In my younger years I was guilty of it myself, and paid a price.
> 
> ...


 
Could you go anymore off topic ??? good luck getting it back Kirby !


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## mysnakesau (Dec 3, 2009)

Has he bred any dragons or have eggs cooking atm? Perhaps you can make an arrangement with the current clutch. It won't get your dragon back but perhaps you could accept some compensation with what clutches or older ones he may still have.


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## Bretsta (Dec 15, 2009)

Kirby said:


> the animal was only on his licence for 6 months or less. i would assume he has made alot of money out of this...




how would u he have made a lot of money out of this if you then go on to admit the dragon was to immature to breed from in this breeding loan. sounds like the bloke that sold this was trying to get some money out of it, after all the loses he would have had from taking care of it for so long.

cut your loses and move on kirby. good luck with rebuild, hope it works out well and you produce many nice ones in the future. maybe i could loan one, lol.


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## falconboy (Dec 15, 2009)

I'd like to hear back from Kirby, particular since I defended him!


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## Jay84 (Dec 15, 2009)

Strange isn't it...... a few holes appear in a story and the original poster disappears???


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## wiz-fiz (Dec 15, 2009)

tis very strange.


WIll


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## carpetpythongurl (Oct 2, 2010)

did he get it back?


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## bigi (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry to hear you lost the Dragon Kirby, that just sux, Its bad enough you had to hand over your animal for some one to care for, while you are in a difficult situation, that must have been horrible in itself, but then not to have it returned is shocking. There are some decent people who have reptiles, just not that person, I hope it all sorts itself out in time for you


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## giggle (Oct 2, 2010)

wow... this is an old thread. 

There is one thing I wanted to bring up that no one thought of.
Because the animal has been sold now, did not mean Kirby wanted the animal back _right now_. He may have been checking up on how the loan out was doing only to find it had been sold. The breeding loan would very logically have been for a lot longer than 6 months especially if it was immature. Further more it is not at all inappropriate to send out an immature animal on a breeding loan. Payment for the care provided as a young animal would have been received from the animals progeny. Clearly the person in question thought this was a reasonable deal... as would I!!

In breeding dogs, if I am going on a co-ownership or doing a breeding loan I will very frequently send the dogs out as pups. No one expects the dog to reproduce as a pup!! :| The loans go for a period of many years in some cases.
At least in breeding loans and co-ownerships for dogs... it is typical to send them on as young animals before breeding is possible. Any expense in the keeping of the animal is normally made up for in two parts... the mere fact they have the animal and the publicity it may acquire... and the animals it will produce at a later date. They pay no initial outlay, pay for its care and often in the end either send the animal back with offspring, or send offspring back and have the animal signed over into their name.

I dont see any reason to condemn Kirby.... and the person with the loan animal would have known full well that he would not have wanted the animal moved on.

And a new mutation... as unexciting as some may view its appearance... is a big deal especially to someone who may not produce alot. I find some of these arguements terribly offensive and feel sorry for Kirby  He was just seeking advice.

Kirby... I went through the same thing... my mother had to move house and the new house was taking a while to build... in the mean time she needed to rent. The rental people wouldnt allow her to have all her dogs at the property so her "friend" did her a deal. She would take them on a breeding loan, take care of them and have litters with them to repay any associated care costs and return them to her when she was in her new place. Four of them went to her on different basis... one was to stay with the lady in return for a pup. The other three were to be used for breeding for the 18month period and were to be returned with one extra pup. 
Time came to have the dogs back and what happened... she wouldnt give them back. They had proven to be invaluable animals to her program. She said that my mum had simply given them to her out of the kindness of her heart. RIGHT! four dogs at $1000 each, just given away, I think not!

I find it hard to believe you would give a new leatherback mutation away out of the kindness of your heart either.

My parents had to take her to court. But its not a criminal matter... its a civil matter as there was an agreement. 
So you cant go to the police. But if talking civily to them gets you no satisfaction... then you can do up a legal letter to send to them requesting your animal back or compensation. Give them a time period to contact you within and name the consequences of not complying with your request. If they do not comply, send another letter outlining your next course of action. If you are keen to have it back, then you may need to go to court.

Im sorry you had to go through this. I know there are two sides to every story... but... if this person knew this was a loan then they did the wrong thing. The legally accurate response to Kirbys disappearance would have been to send official letters in similar format to what I had just recommended to Kirby to do. The person would have needed to make a clear effort to get in contact with Kirby... and it would have been a few months without contact before the person could have reasonably moved the animal on.

Goodluck dude


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## Kirby (Oct 2, 2010)

i just dug this up as someone brought it up in a pm. to those saying it wasnt anything special, you must be very jealous. it was the beginnings of something specials. 

This dragon was offered with a purchase of some other of my dragons. under the conditions either her, or some of her offspring would be returned in the event a breeding would occur, clearly still mine. unfortunately some thing went down hill, for both of us. he sold up and failed to tell me untill i found out off the new owner. 

Im not a burning flame of anger, im upset and disapointed. i would apreceate an update on her... at least. i dont necessarily mind her being kept/bred? by the new owner, i would like some sort of recognition or at least an update or something. 

the new owner never replied to any pm's. i bet she's having fun with the dragon. 

(Please keep in mind i am posting this, PURELY as an update. dont start a warfare.


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## Kirby (Oct 2, 2010)

giggle said:


> I find it hard to believe you would give a new leatherback mutation away out of the kindness of your heart either.


 
i was in a position where i had to sell/give away my entire collection. sadly. i put her into what i had considered and discussed as good, ethical, and responsible hands. 

i dont blame him for moving her on, in his position, but i would have taken her back if he offered. i was just never told.


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## Australis (Oct 2, 2010)

Someone else is going to get the bearded dragon glory! (lolz)


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## junglepython2 (Oct 2, 2010)

Kirby said:


> This dragon was offered with a purchase of some other of my dragons. under the conditions either her, or some of her offspring would be returned in the event a breeding would occur, clearly still mine.


 
He never bred it, so the condition was never met. While he probably should of let you know what was happening I don't think you can say it was clearly still yours.


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## giggle (Oct 2, 2010)

Oops
*tries to close can of worms*
darn lid wont shut... :|

Kirby I understand, I didn't mean that to sound bad. My mother was also was stuck and thought the deal would benefit all parties. Unfortunately if things go bad one way or another in the mean time... then no one really benefits.

I was just sad that people would start to claim you were dodgy merely by talking themselves into it. 

Anyway, soz for your loss.


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## norwich (Oct 2, 2010)

i can drive to sydney to help with that i used to be a dept collector big bloke and always get what i want i think thats terible my wife is solicitor if need advice if they get nasty well then you will definatly need me regards mick


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## Jay84 (Oct 3, 2010)

giggle said:


> I find it hard to believe you would give a new leatherback mutation away out of the kindness of your heart either.



I find it all hard to believe


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

thats not cool but i would speak they get it replaced with one that is as good as you one they sold did u have it in writing on contact or just a verbal agreement? best way to keep track and make should u wont lose them


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## giggle (Oct 3, 2010)

Ha ha send Mick with a legal letter to do some door knocking ^_^

<3


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

did u have a witness as well ?


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## dickyknee (Oct 3, 2010)

carpetpythongurl said:


> did he get it back?


 
Some one give them an infraction for dragging this back up


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## giggle (Oct 3, 2010)

dont need witnesses so much. my mother got her dogs back based on emails sent back and forth. Civil matters arent like criminal matters... the judge doesnt need to have proof beyond reasonable doubt... it is common sense that tips the case in any particular persons favour. If there is email communication that shows the agreement between the two, that is enough. Of course the more proof you have the better. But if both parties walked into a court room with nothing but their own word... and kirby had sold a bunch of less significant animals to the same person and then that person claimed kirby gave him a more rare and exotic animal for nothing without any conditions... anyone with common sense would not believe that story. They are more inclined to believe that kirby gave him this animal on the condition he would get back offspring or have the animal returned after breeding is done. 
Kirby has a very good case even if he didnt have evidence. *shrugs* I hope he gets something back and doesnt end up feeling guilted by the rest of the reptile community and the person he gave/loaned the animal to. His unfortunate circumstances are no excuse for someone else to take advantage. Though it is the person that sold the animal on him that should be held responsible. The person that bought the animal in the end is not to blame, they are also a victim. And I would understand their unwillingness to talk to kirby about it.


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

soz i didnt look at the dates i just read it after someone else posted and was at the top of the forum list


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## giggle (Oct 3, 2010)

ha ha kitten Im sure he is joking ^_^ No one said anything about this being unacceptable to comment on and they would have closed it if it was off limits


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 3, 2010)

giggle said:


> ha ha kitten Im sure he is joking ^_^ No one said anything about this being unacceptable to comment on and they would have closed it if it was off limits


 No, but it is dam annoying


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

yeah i'll learn not to pay much attention to some as some do not have respected for newbies to the site ...


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## carpetpythongurl (Oct 3, 2010)

sorry for asking but there was no answer about what happen i didnt mean to upset anyone but if you dont like it maybe you shouldnt comment


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

nah its just geck as i have heard about some people on here and how they treat some newbies. i was trying to show a lawful way about it but seeing this dose make me think not to do breeding loans unless under contact. i thought i upset one not you carpetpythongurl.


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## dickyknee (Oct 3, 2010)

Tattooedkitten said:


> yeah i'll learn not to pay much attention to some as some do not have respected for newbies to the site ...


 
I have plenty of respect for newbies , i was one myself once , i was clearly joking with the person who started the thread again , and that's why i put a  after my comment .


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

was not talking about u. and thats me joking around most people take me to seriously these days cause they read every think the wrong way. i got banned from the chat room cause some cant take jokes but can only dish it out not saying names and in this thread i was trying to help thats all


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## Snakewise84 (Oct 3, 2010)

nah it was just a miss understanding thats all, all good


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## giggle (Oct 3, 2010)

hey geckoman... you dont have to read it if you find it annoying ^_^ simple.


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## snakelady96 (Oct 6, 2011)

Never have any dealings with this person EVER again. I'd be trying to make contact with the person who bought you beardie and tell them the situation and ask if
you could buy him/her back. If they say no depending on how bad you want it back (i would do anything) say you will buy it back and buy them another one.
Good Luck


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## ryanm (Oct 6, 2011)

snakelady96 said:


> Never have any dealings with this person EVER again. I'd be trying to make contact with the person who bought you beardie and tell them the situation and ask if
> you could buy him/her back. If they say no depending on how bad you want it back (i would do anything) say you will buy it back and buy them another one.
> Good Luck



The last post in this thread is over a year old, why bother commenting?


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## snakelady96 (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh crap hahaha didn't even look at the dates!


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