# Cichlids! I hardly knew yee!



## Naxx (Oct 30, 2007)

Any one here keep fish? I Had a 3.5 foot tank approx 85 litres with a healthy group of 3 Blue dolphins, 3 Red amps, and 5 electric yellow cichlids. In the course of 3 weeks im down to 3 electrics. Something has been killing off the fish one by one, they start swimming funny and not eating and then they die in the course of about 2 days. Only one dies at a time and ive been treating for fungis and parasites just incase. Ive done water changes appropriately and they are still dieing off thus far.

Anyone got any ideas????? Ive been keeping fish for a few years and learned from my dad and ive never seen anything like this.

Also in the last stages before they die Ich starts to apear, but its too late to be the cause of death and I believe is just a side effect due to the stress of watever is kiling them.


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## junglemad (Oct 30, 2007)

have u ruled out the electric yellows as murder suspects?

what is the temp?

how hard is your water?


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## fishbot (Oct 30, 2007)

Fish die from water conditions or other fish...usually water conditions.

Are they burning? ie is there a film on them or white stuff?

If yes then you have pH or ammonia problems. pH should be over 8.0 for Africans and ammonia at zero.

What size water changes and how frequent?


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## Tsubakai (Oct 31, 2007)

You need to check your pH, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels and probably your general and carbonate hardness levels first to exclude a water problem. If your pH bounces due to inadequate buffering (low carbonate hardness) that can cause significant stress.

What are you using to treat the possible fungal/bacterial causes?


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## Naxx (Oct 31, 2007)

heat is normal for cichlids, hanging just below 30 as they like a bit warmer, Ph is fine, few plants etc and a log to help with the acidity. No tannins in water, No film on them, ruled out the burning and not the other fish killing each other, they completely leave one another alone, and it was the larger fish dying off first, the dominant ones in the tank to start. 

Water changes are standard of 1/4 montly to 2 months and a large 2/3 change every 4-6 months. I considered ammonia as a problem but the plants are doign fine as are the other fish (pleco and a cory catfish) and i have been cleaning the rocks thouroughly to get any waste out. But i havent been overcleaning as to destroy positive bacteria.


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## Tsubakai (Nov 1, 2007)

..................


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## cuddlykylie (Nov 1, 2007)

too many fish in a small tank, remember those fish are all big growers,


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## chrisso81 (Nov 1, 2007)

You should be doing 1/3 water changes weekly, or fortnightly at the least if ya lazy. You really should get your water tested to determine whats really goin on as well. Just because things look fine, doesn't mean that they are. You say ich turns up before they die? A clear indicator of stress, an unhealthy environment and a weak immune system. Bullying will also increase stress levels leaving them open to attack from infection. Don't just go treating your tank willy nilly either, you say you've treated for fungus but is fungus even present? 

In regrads to temp I keep all my cichlids at 26 degrees, IMO 25-27 is the ideal temp range. 

Bloat could also be the issue, what are you feeding them? Malawi cichlids will only tolerate a certain amount of protein in their diet. Symptoms include going off their food, retiring to a quiet corner, white stringy poo, gasping and death....the funnny thing is sometimes they never even look bloated, so many people are quick to dismiss it and don't end up treating for bloat.

I suggest getting in contact with your local aquarium and joining up to some fish forums like ace forums or addicted2fish to get some more info and advice.

All the best.


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## Mork (Nov 1, 2007)

Naxx said:


> Ph is fine, few plants etc and a log to help with the acidity.



Erm by log i'm assuming u mean drift wood. That will cause the water to lower in pH. Rift lake cichlids like hard alkaline water. Get rid of the log. Throw in some shell grit or limestone.



Naxx said:


> Water changes are standard of 1/4 montly to 2 months and a large 2/3 change every 4-6 months.



Is it just me or does that seem to be ridiculously low for the number of fish in the tank?

Corys/plecos and rift lake cichlids like completely different water parameters. Do some more research on the fish and you will see what i mean.


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## Gecko_ProCs (Nov 1, 2007)

a mass of fish suicides :shock:
you bought a bunch of emo's! 
and you know what its like when a group of them get together


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## Naxx (Nov 1, 2007)

lol the water changes are only at that now, i did more when there were more fish. Overcrouding isnt an issue cuz there were only about 6 of them in there when the real problem started. And when i said i was treating for fungus i was using an ICH med that treats for 3 different kinds of things, a fungus being one of them. But i will try a fish forum anyways


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## Mystery (Nov 1, 2007)

Everytime you treat your water for a fungus or other problem you are killing off your beneficial bacteria. The information you have been given is right. You should be doing a 25% water change once a fortnight with a gravel cleaner.
What size are these cichlids? How long has your tank been set up? I would be trying to put some Aqua Cycle or something in there to increase your healthy bacteria. Like the others said - you really need to get your water tested, especially for ammonia!


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## chrisso81 (Nov 1, 2007)

Yeah mate, a fish forum, a good one anyway, will be the source of a lot of valuable information. Hunt out the two I've mentioned, they're good value.

Seriously though, water changes are vital to the health of your aquarium, even with 3 fish in a tank I would still only leave it for a fortnight. Its like saying, I only change my snakes water every 6 months because he only takes little sips. The harsh reality is that fish do not enjoy swimming around in their own waste and come from a lake that is millions and millions of litres and where waste is diluted to nothing. I would be doing some extra water changes or using activated carbon to remove the residual medication from the water as well.

Just an example, I have a 350l tank with about 30 adult fish in it. Despite weekly 100l water changes and 2 1500 lph canister filters my nitrites got up to around 300ppm at one stage, not good for fishies at all. 

I re-read your post, and the fact that the fish are swimming funny and not eating sounds like bloat to me, thats what happened in my display tank. I've never seen fish with white spot / ich swimming funny, they act the same, but get covered in the stuff. You can use metronidozal or a Waterlife product that i can't think of right now to treat bloat. 

Sorry for the rambling, I really could go on forever!


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## Mystery (Nov 1, 2007)

Naxx - keep us posted mate. Would like to know the end result.


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## morgs202 (Nov 1, 2007)

I would be changing water mor regularly. Every fortnight would be safest. Also, ammonia doesn't hurt plants, and plecos and corys are far less affected by it than many cichlids


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## Mystery (Nov 1, 2007)

Naxx - what is your tank in cm's - height x length x width. 85litres doesn't seem right for a 3 1/2 footer. It should be around 140ltrs.


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## Naxx (Nov 1, 2007)

um its 3.5 wide, 1.5 deep, and about 2.5 high i forgot the actual litres


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## Renagade (Nov 1, 2007)

did you tip the fish in with the water that came in the bag with them, are they new did you say? sometime you can pick up a bug that way.?.?.?


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## darkangel (Nov 1, 2007)

did you let the tank cycle before you put them in the tank? if not that could be your problem. and as mentioned before maybe lower the temp to around 26 degrees.


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## Brettix (Nov 1, 2007)

Sounds like an amonia spike,and bacteria levels are very low.
I also keep myne at 26 its perfect temp,dont get any more fish yet and do a 10cm water change every 2 days for two weeks or until amonia levels drop.
Then get some more filter media (matrix) is the best and holds alot more bacteria.
Then continue with a quater water changes every 2 weeks.
What filter did you say your running?


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## Naxx (Nov 1, 2007)

they have been in it for months its not due to new water or new fish or anything like that. I keep my smaller tank at 26 but the cichlids are quite happy around 29, this wouldnt be killing them anyways its only a few degrees difference


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## Renagade (Nov 1, 2007)

i keep mine at 26.


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## Brettix (Nov 1, 2007)

Naxx said:


> they have been in it for months its not due to new water or new fish or anything like that. I keep my smaller tank at 26 but the cichlids are quite happy around 29, this wouldnt be killing them anyways its only a few degrees difference


Only 4 months ,it does sound like a amonia spike then.
As the tanks is new it hasn't built up enoughf bacteria yet to balance the nitrate and amonia levels and has created a spike.
Follow the steps i said above,and if kept a little cooler like 26-27 fish stress less 29 is fine but on a hot day could creep up to 30 or higher and could be deadly.There is i big difference in a couple deg.


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## Naxx (Nov 1, 2007)

its an ehiem canister filter, powerful enough for a tank my size, has sponge medium inside. i thought it might be ammonia so ima keep an eye on it and change water as suggested. they seem to be doin alot better since i did the 1/2 water change.



> Only 4 months ,it does sound like a amonia spike then.
> As the tanks is new it hasn't built up enoughf bacteria yet to balance the nitrate and amonia levels and has created a spike.
> Follow the steps i said above,and if kept a little cooler like 26-27 fish stress less 29 is fine but on a hot day could creep up to 30 or higher and could be deadly.There is i big difference in a couple deg.


 
nope, the tank and filter were used, i cleaned the filter in tank water to keep bacteria.


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## Brettix (Nov 1, 2007)

Good, sounds like your on track,i would add some matrix to your canister it will help 100% its expensive but well worth it,1 litre will do ya cost about $20 a litre.


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## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2007)

Ph and hardness are not an issue. Since most fish wholesalers keep all tanks at a neutral ph and a low hardness. Temp is not an issue unless you live down south. I've kept and bred fish on the coast with no heaters for many years now no problem. The main killer is over-breeding. 1 batch a year is all is normal in nature. What is their diet.


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