# Fake rock wall build. Some Questions



## reptileKev81 (Jul 11, 2011)

Hi guys, as some of you mat have seen on other threads, in building a fake rock wall for a 3x2x2 aquarium that I'm fixing up for my beardie. 

Just wanted to know what kind of base I should build it on. Is some cheap ply or chipboard ok? How thick should it be to support the rockwall?

Also, going to get some styrofoam sheets now, how thick is ideal? Is 25mm ok? Or should I go thicker. 

I will take lots of pics and post my process as I go. 
It won't be as nice as Tregs, but hopefully your tips and advice will help me get some decent results since my DIY skills suck lols

Cheers
Kev


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2011)

Hi Kev 

I would just stick the foam to the glass, if you dont you'll have roaches and crickets making a home behind it, or in it if you dont seal the foam properly.

adding ply isnt going to acheive anything better than sticking the foam straight to the glass, all of the edges will still need to be sealed to stop roach/cricket infestation.

the foam work is no different to what Treg has done on his 'productive evening' thread, just make sure you put down 3 - 4 layers of the render, 
dont be tempted to do one thick layer, it takes too long to dry but it needs to be thick to withstand the claws.

dont worry about lack of DIY skills, most of us can be called amatuers at best. we just slowly work our way through and ask for help as needed. 
you know where we are if you need help just ask.


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## mattyg (Jul 11, 2011)

everything sealed with clear silicone its easy and works well and nearly the only thing that will stick well to glass AND everything else


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## Stopthatsnake (Jul 11, 2011)

Gday Kev

I bought 25mm thick sheets of styro foam (from clark rubber $10 a piece) and then got other styrofoam fruit boxes and stuck them on to build it up a bit! 

The other option is to buy waffle pods (big blocks of styrofoam used for building housing foundations) which are cheaper for their size... it just depends on what you want to do! 

And im with Jaxtfm... stick it directly to the glass! it will come off nicely with a razor later on if you need it too!


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 11, 2011)

Hmmm, unfortunately I don't think I will have enough access through the top to work directly onto the glass. Maybe I can use a sheet of styrofoam as the base, not seal the back of it and glue it directly to the glass when done? What do you guys think?

I love bunnings. I've come home $100 lighter and have just realized I didn't get everything I need. Man I always get carried away in that store. At the checkout, my mrs looks at me saying "I thought this is suppose to be cheaper than buying a background, lols


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## Tinky (Jul 11, 2011)

Having it removable comes in very handy for cleaning, but you will have crickets getting in behind.

Another great source of Foam is you local dicount store. For them it is a waste product, so if you speak to their loading dock they will usually put some asside for you. I told Target that I was making a sculpture of Ularu for my sons school project and ended up with a large boot load. can't get cheaper than that.

Also there are different grades of polystyrene. personally i do not like the vegie boxes as they are too dense and hard to carve, (though they can be good for shelves).


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## Sofoula88 (Jul 11, 2011)

Hey, I'm doing something similar..I've watches lots of vids of ppl doing it on YouTube..it all depends on your design really..whether your going to stick on rocks and build it up that way,add legdges and platforms to bask or just do a simple design where u carve rocks from the foam you already have there...once you've decided ull know how much foam ull need..I'm planning to do the same to my spare tank which is the same size as ur tank that ur working with now..it's not a huge space to work with and not really ideal for a large beardie but I dunno how big ur beardie is..anyway I think ull find a wall and building it up will actually take and make te space in the tank smaller..it might look big when u start out but will look very small once u start depending what you do so I wouldn't worry bout building it up too much..again all depends on the design..for a tank that size though I would go with a more basic look possibly a legde or 2..don't go over board adding rocks coz it will jst take up too much space n then the space in ur actual tank will be significantly smaller..that's my advice to ya..good luck ad please send in pics so we can see your progress =]


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## Stopthatsnake (Jul 11, 2011)

Yeah thats what im doing with the sheets from clark rubber... they are 1200mmX600mmX25mm so they are pretty big! Cut them to size and then stick on more styrofoam and shape as needed... then once you have painted/textured your background and your all happy stick it in! 

I spent 1.5 hours wandering around thornleigh bunnings making a list of what i wanted/needed! me and my brother have been back there pretty much every week to buy things (he's working on a long board and im working on my snake enclosure) probably spent about $200 in the last month on enclosure stuff

If you look behind fruit and veg stores at night they often have huge amounts of it stacked around the bin...


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## Sofoula88 (Jul 11, 2011)

Forgot to add.. I would go with 1cm for your back part and glue it on..I think 25mm is too thick for the back because from the sounds of it you will be building it up, hope I am helping not sounding annoying it's just I thought the same thing and thought I'd need soo much thick foam and then when I started I realised how much space it actually takes up..but yeh I dunno that's jst my opinion..go with your gut mate


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2011)

reptileKev81 said:


> I love bunnings. I've come home $100 lighter and have just realized I didn't get everything I need. Man I always get carried away in that store. At the checkout, my mrs looks at me saying "I thought this is suppose to be cheaper than buying a background, lols



it does get cheaper each time you visit bunnings because you dont always need 'everything' Its getting to the point i now only go there for extra liquid nails or silicone. tell your mrs that what you have spent will last for a few backgrounds LOL.
I would still stick it to the tank, you dont want a bearded climbing up and then having the whole thing falling into the tank !
Tinky, i actually prefer the denser foam i can get more detail in it, and you're right, ask around you'll be amazed where you can find foam, if your after thinner sheets or dont mind glueing a few sheets together, ask a store that sells flat pack furniture, they often use thin sheets in the boxes to protect the contents, often quite large pieces too. 

I'm lucky, i work in IT for a large business, so there is always plenty of foam, we have a special bin for it, and the store guys call me before they call the refuse people to empty the bin, most times they dont need ot call after i've finished picking pieces I can use. i'd hate to see how much $$ i've saved the company to get the bin emptied


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## Tinky (Jul 11, 2011)

Have you thought about corner units, (rather than wall mount), they are self supporting and wont fall over.

There are some in an album on my profile, (and some castles).

and don't forget your little devil butane burner for shaping and sealing.

Cheers


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 11, 2011)

I went to Liverpool and found that Clarks rubber has been replaced by beaurepairs. Even worse, my dad has thrown away all the syrofoam bits that I have been hoarding 
Since I'm outta funds and have no base, I'll have to wait till payday 
I am SOOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED! 
Anyways, I figured I would use this tiny bit of foam I have to make a new food n water bowl for my beardie for the time being lols. 

Ive also realized that a 3x2 ft background will not fit through the top since the tank has a crossmember type going across the middle, I'll need to make it in 2 or 3 pieces 
This days not turning out like I hoped


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2011)

look on the bright side. you didnt make it and then realised you had the cross member to deal with. !
Did you let dad know that you were planning on using the foam as a back drop ? maybe then he wont be in such a hurry to clean up next time.


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 11, 2011)

I decided: Stuff it! I'm gonna use this wood as a base. I don't feed crickets in his enclosure, I always take him out, so illegal squatter colonies won't be an issue. And I found some more styrofoam 

Alright, I've decided to take a smoke break 
Here's where I'm up to.
I first cut 5cms from the top of the board to make it fit. Then I cut the board in half, then trimmed another 5cms from the side of one of the boards.






I'm now in the process of gluing the foam to the backpieces.
I found that it gave it a better texture by ripping and breaking the pieces as opposed to using a knife
I plan to fill all the little bits with expanda foam.













Any advice, tips or criticism (constructive)?
I plan on making the heavily foamed area the bottom of the wall. Or should I turn it upside down?
Anyways, back to styrofoam duty


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2011)

The only thing I'd suggest is making sure some of the lower pieces stick out enough for your beardie to sit in and under, then you have extra useable area, other than that you look to be off to a flying start


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 11, 2011)

Ive actually put a shelf on the other side with a hide under it.
Ive just stopped to egt a bit of dinner, will put pics up later tonight


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## J-A-X (Jul 11, 2011)

A hacksaw blade or a wire brush are also good for a bit of texture. WARNING don't do it inside it gets messy and it's not easy to clean up


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## Treg92 (Jul 11, 2011)

jax is right, Verrrrry Messy, took me longer to clean up than to make it  , melting with a heat gun works good also (but be careful as it melts fast and has bad fumes)

if you do use expandafoam, wait a few days for it to really set before you start grouting, and i have heard that beardys chew, so lots of grout or all your hard work may be ruined


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 12, 2011)

Its so cold, I'm gonna wait for it to warm up before I head into the garage to continue, lol.
Thanks for the advice Jax and Treg 
How many coats of render should I use so my Beardie doesnt rip it up? He doesnt chew stuff other than his food, but he scratches and tries to dig in his wooden enclosure, lols, he'll probably try to scratch and dig his way through the background too. How much do you guys reckon is enough?


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## 1woma (Jul 12, 2011)

I do three coats for snakes, so maybe 4? im not sure hopefully an experienced person can help i dont have lizards. make sure u put in pva glue in he first couple to help it stick. make the first coat very runny like milk to get in all the small spots.... then i make it thicker each time.


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## J-A-X (Jul 12, 2011)

cold ? unless you live where it snows then i have no sympathy, I do most of my work after 7pm in the shed and the Adelaide hills can get to 5c just as the sun goes down. Throw a couple of extra jumpers on and head to the shed ya big wimp 

I'd suggest a minimum of 4 coats, the first coat being a slurry mix to get into all the nooks and crannies, and get slightly thicker consistancy with the rest of them, dont be tempted to do a thick layer of any of them, they will take too long to dry. and this weather i'd give them a good couple of days to dry properly before the next coat. you can add oxide or paint to the last layer as a base colour before you start painting.

treg and I seem to both agree that the liquid component of the first coat should be 50/50 water & PVA and then add the render to it, i wouldn't go with grout for a beardie, its too soft, even with multiple layers. 

good luck now get to the shed ! !


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 12, 2011)

Jaxrtfm said:


> cold ? unless you live where it snows then i have no sympathy, I do most of my work after 7pm in the shed and the Adelaide hills can get to 5c just as the sun goes down. Throw a couple of extra jumpers on and head to the shed ya big wimp


lols, RESPECT! Its 12o in the garage, hahah, So I guess I cant complain. Just gonna have some breakfast and a shower, then I'll work on it a couple hours before my class


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## Sofoula88 (Jul 13, 2011)

I agree def start with thin layers fr the grout/render.. I used grout and put jeez soo many layers I lost count lol..it's a very repetative time consuming process..my tip would be put atleast 3-4 layers of runny almost pancake like mixture again getting thicker as you go,then maybe 2-3 thick layers..don't just slap it on thick coz it will most likely crack if u don't do it right..need to build it up like anything else..I think I put like 6 or 7 coats..


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## Tinky (Jul 13, 2011)

I put five to seven layers. Min 24 hrs between coats, but better if 48.

Start of with fairy thin mix and work up to a heavier mix for final coats. Don’t bother with color until last two coats, (unless you want to experiment with color options).

What sort of blow torch are you using? I would recommend a little devil, (in the tools section of Bunnings). About $20 and uses a refillable cigarette lighter.


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## Treg92 (Jul 13, 2011)

jax is really pretty hardcore, i don't know how she can work in that cold, i actually was working at Stirling the other day, and that was freezing!!!



> treg and I seem to both agree that the liquid component of the first coat should be 50/50 water & PVA and then add the render to it, i wouldn't go with grout for a beardie, its too soft, even with multiple layers.



good call, render is also cheaper than grout, well, for me it is anyway, not sure what bunnings charges. but definately put on as many coats as you can be bothered to, i would think 4 at a minimum (just an uneducated guess)

anyway, post some pics of your advancements


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## J-A-X (Jul 13, 2011)

Treg92 said:


> jax is really pretty hardcore, i don't know how she can work in that cold, i actually was working at Stirling the other day, and that was freezing!!!



I'll take that as a compliment......I think  although if you read one of the other threads, i've wimped out and i'm staying inside tonight, ..... i hope i'm not coming down with something, Nah, i'm just being lazy 

I prefer the acrylic render, its stronger than grout, not as crumbly as cement and dries quicker than normal render. and i agree with Treg, 4 coats minimum, 2 thin, and 2 each a little thicker than the last coat.


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 17, 2011)

Been busy this week, haven't really had a chance to work on it till today.
Gonna wait for this application of expandafoam to set, just so I can get an idea of how much it will grow (4 hours according to can) so i can make sure it will fit. Then im gonna fill in the rest of the gaps later, especially across the middle. Wheels are still turning in my head trying to figure out how I can hide the crack in the middle... 
Theres the hide on the left. Its not spectacular, but it beats the cardbox box my beardie has at the moment, lols
















Sorry bout that last pic. Needs a rotate which I'll do when I go back inside to the laptop, on the iPhone now. 

How long should I wait for the expanda foam before I can start coating it with acrylic render + pva glue?

And how long should it sit between coats?


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## Sofoula88 (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey.. Looking ok so far..your gonna need to glue that crack in the middle and make sure there are no gaps in the hide also..other than that looks fine,a little rough but will probz do the job lol.. I had the same thing/idea you had except I was gonna build a fake wall and add basking platforms because I haven't got anything to get them close to the uv.. I'm still working on that ATM it's like a 3 part project.. There's a hide box which I desperately needed coz like you my beardies hide until recently was a crappy telstra phone box lol.. Also making a pond n platforms... Here is the pic of my hide and I have vids on YouTube if ya wanna check em out but yeh here is the pic..http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/sofoula88/4e7060fd.jpg


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## J-A-X (Jul 17, 2011)

It's looks like the start of something good 

I normally give the expanda foam a couple of days to stop growing and harden up - but it's not as firm as normal styrofoam. A light mist with water as soon as you've finished your spraying helps it to grow a little faster.

Acrylic render I allow 3-4 days if you're doing it in the shed. 2-3 if you're inside with heating going. Keep us updated


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## reptileKev81 (Jul 17, 2011)

Sofoula88 said:


> Hey.. Looking ok so far..your gonna need to glue that crack in the middle


 Unfortunately, I am doing it in 2 pieces, otherwise I cant get it into the tank, theres a big crossmember thingy going across the middle of the opening. I was trying to cut the silicone out of it, but i failed due to lack of proper tools, lol
btw, the pic of your hide looks good!

As for the small cracks in the hide, I will wait for the glue to harden and set, then I'll get some expandafoam in the cracks.



Jaxrtfm said:


> It's looks like the start of something good
> 
> I normally give the expanda foam a couple of days to stop growing and harden up - but it's not as firm as normal styrofoam. A light mist with water as soon as you've finished your spraying helps it to grow a little faster.
> 
> Acrylic render I allow 3-4 days if you're doing it in the shed. 2-3 if you're inside with heating going. Keep us updated



Thanks for the info.
I've sprayed expandafoam over the crack in the middle, them I'm goon try and separate it with an undercut, so the foam from one side overhangs the other side hiding the crack. Hopefully it works, lol

Ill put another update in a few days when I continue.

Cheers
Kev


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