# Southern Cross Reptiles comp. updates



## Slateman (Dec 14, 2005)

*Post from doc after judgement.*

All in all, that was a good effort. When you give out the scores could you point out that I rewarded points for picking the differences and for pointing out the exceptions to the rule as well (e.g. snakes have forked tongues and lizards don?t ? except goannas; snakes have no eyelids ? neither do geckoes etc etc).


Results are:-

J&amp;C Reptiles 3 points

Junglemad 3

Olivehydra 2.5

Southy 2

Robbo 2

Soulweaver 1.5

Stuff Rules 1.5

Dicco 1.5

*score after 5th round.
*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 7 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 6 and half
staffsrule 3 and half
Dicco 7 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 7
junglemad 8
westaussie 1
olivehydra 7 and half
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo4
Kahn_10 3


Here you are people. We have 4 leading man and many people who are not far behind. This are scores after 5 th round. There is another 25 to go.

Feel free to post here any related comments.


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## buck (Dec 14, 2005)

Looks to me like there is one person leading and 3 coming second....


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## junglemad (Dec 14, 2005)

shucks


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## Slateman (Dec 15, 2005)

This comp will run right through holidays, No time off. Just remember, you don't have to end up first in this 30 question maraton.
3 best people from this round will get the oportunity to have a go to win the snakey.


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## Slateman (Dec 18, 2005)

Just to reming you again that question 6 is on. Please answer before Monday evening.


*question 6*

Your snake have to be force fed. Your vet told you to use small rodent. Tel us how you will do this?

Please email your answer to [email protected]

Remember question is how to forcefeed *small rodent*
not how to f.fed hatchling.


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## NoOne (Dec 18, 2005)

> remember question is how to force feed small rodent
> not how to f.feed a hatchling



Force feed a rodent? Or a snake?


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## lutzd (Dec 19, 2005)

I would have thought the first sentence would have provided the answer : "Your snake have to be force fed". If you can't figure out what that means....... :roll:


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## JandC_Reptiles (Dec 19, 2005)

I provided 2 answers to the question simply because there was no description of the snakes size, age or weight. I also emailed my answer before Slatemans additional info " that the snake WAS NOT a Hatchling". So can you take that on board when deciding the winners.


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## zen (Dec 19, 2005)

May I ask what the point of all this is? :? :roll:


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## kahn_10 (Dec 20, 2005)

a bredli python from southern cross reptiles


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## Slateman (Dec 20, 2005)

This are the answers I received for question 6
Competitors please check if Your answers are there.

staffsrule
From: staffsrule To: Slateman Posted: Dec 18, 2005 - 11:00 PM Subject: Southern Cross reptiles comp. 
Ok here goes !! 
Kill the small rodent, and gently stick the head inside the snakes mouth, using the nose of the rodent (or some other small dull object) to open the snakes mouth. When the small rodents head is inside the snakes jaws, gently apply pressure on the outside of the upper and lower jaws of the snake with fingers, while very gently pulling back on the small rodent. This will stick the rodent in the snakes teeth and make it more difficult to spit out. 
Wait till the snake is not struggling and gently put it down in its cage and dont move !!!!!!!! You may have to repeat this several times, but often snakes will accept the rodent. 
If this fails after a couple of attempts, start the small rodent down the same way, and GENTLY shove the rodent down the snakes throat using a very dull object. Gently massage the rodent down the snakes throat to about one quater or one third of the snakes length. 
Hoping I never have to do this myself lol, if the snake has stopped eating and needs to be force fed WHY ????? A trip to a herp specialist before trying force feeding might be the go, to find out why it has stopped eating. 
Force feeding should only ever be done in an attempt to save a snakes life. 
Staffsrule.



Soulweaver 
Force feeding is something that I would first get shown by someone experienced. It is not the easiest thing to do, and can put a lot of stress on yourself and the animal. After being shown how do to do it, this is how I would go about it. 
First of cut off a tail from a rat or mouse, The si z e of the tail you want is dependant on the si z e of the animal you are try to feed. In this case we will assume it is a hatchling snake that hasnt fed since being hatched from the egg. 
The si z e of that tail I would use would be around the 3cm mark. The hairs on the tail will help keep the tail down the snakes throat if you put in backwards. Meaning that the mouse tail needs to go into the mouth starting from the base of the tail where is would have been cut off the rodent. The hairs are reversed if you do this, and if the snake tries to push the tail out, it will work against them and slowly work itself down the snakes mouth. 
Once the tail is almost down, I would grab a pinkie mouse and try and get it to follow the mouse tail down the throat. Once the initiation of feeding as started, the snake may continue to eat the pinkie if it has gone into feeding mode. 
If this fails and a pinkie mouse needs to be fed, the best way to do this is to put ky jelly on the pinkie first (lubricate) using a small pair of feeding twee z ers grab the mouse directly behind the neck, if you are lucky the snake will strike out and hit the mouse on the nose, if done correctly this causes the snake to continue feeding, similar to the mouse tail, as it has hit the snakes feeding reflex. 
During all of these procedures, the snakes mouth may need to be opened. I have found that if the snake was an adult python, then using a pen which has a soft rubber grip is a great idea, but since I have talking about a hatchling snake then the item used needs to be smaller, a small probe works well for this. The idea is not to break any teeth if it can be helped, although this may almost be impossible. You need not worry if you do break teeth as snakes shed teeth, but if bleeding occurs you may need to check the snake over the next few weeks to make sure that infection hasnt set in. 
Before the mouth can be opened the snakes head needs to be grabbed. To do this you need to place your thumb under the snakes chin, index finger then sits on top of the snakes head, and your middle finger down along side the snakes head just to stop it from pulling out. I have only ever seen one snake that didnt mind this happening to it, so you have to be prepared for a struggle. The grip that needs to be held has to be firm enough to hold the snake still, but not so tight as to harm the snake from squee z ing. 
You must remember that force feeding a snake would be like someone ramming a hotdog down your throat with a fist. It is defiantly not a pleasant experience, and should only be tried as a last resort. 
The last and final way to force feed a snake is the most unpleasant of the lot. Basically you have to do what the question describes, and that is force the pinkie down. After opening the mouth you can either use our hand or a small pair of twee z ers, I have found a decent pair of twee z ers to be the best way to do this. You then force the head of the rodent down the snakes throat. And basically continue to stuff it down the snakes throat. If the prey item you chose should be small, so that the snake has no problems getting this down, I have seen ppl use large prey items when doing this, and it hasnt been a pleasant experience, far worse then using a small prey item. Once the prey item is inside the throat a little ways, you need to continue to force the rodent down the throat, whilst massaging the snakes throat and assisting the mouse down. The massage should continue until the mouse is in the snakes stomach. 
All attempts to feed listed above are a lot easier done with two ppl helping. Some smaller snakes i.e hatchling childrens pythons may be too small to do this. Especially as a first attempt, and experienced person is recommended to do this, to limit stress to the animal. 
Last of all, if the vet has recommended you do this, then the vet should show you how it is down. Technically this is a surgical procedure that should be done with someone with this medical knowledge. By no means try this on your own for the first time, if the snake is in that much trouble the vet should be able to help you. The use of pinkie pumps maybe another way you can force some food into the snakes mouth, but make sure you know how the pump works. David and Tracy barker have done research and offer a care sheet on how to use the pinkie pump, get in touch with them and they are happy to help you by sending the information via email. Not many ppl in Australia are experienced enough to use the pinkie pump, and animals have died as a result. Defiantly dont take any information off the net on how to use this, as most of it is wrong, and the ppl offering the information on how to use it, have animals die as a result. 
Last of all.good luck! 
Soulweaver 

southy
i hope i make enough sense from this 

force feeding a baby snake can be stressful for both the owner and the snake if incorrectly done, i must say from my personal experience force feeding, it is much easier with the assistance of another person. firstly the rodent should be as small as possible so it will be easier to force into the snakes mouth.it is much better to feed 2 or 3 smaller items rather than 1 large item as stress to snake may occur and with be more dangerous to the snake due to the size. gently but firmly having a grip hold the snakes head . using a very small amount of vegetable oil and rub it over the pinky mouse to make it lubricated to help it slide into and down the snakes throat easier. using a blunt, rounded side not tip of a teaspoon, gently open the snakes mouth by nudging the lips of the snake and then using a rounded blunt pair of tweezers, grab the pinky behind the head as shown in picture added, and slowly place the pinky head first in the snakes mouth carefully pushing further down taking care not to put the pinky in the snakes trachea (larynx). if a some time durnig the feeding the pinky gets caught or is harder to push down, check to see you haven't got the pinky caught on anything and remove the pinky and try again, or if the tweezers slips of during pushing the pinky down the oesophagus, reposition them. when the pinky is far enough in to remove the tweezers from the snakes mouth, do so carefully, then by squeezing the end of the tweezers together, push genlty on the pinkys butt to push it further down until its about 10-15mm behind the back of the snakes head or out of sight and using your thumb, gently massaging down the ventral surface with your forefinger on the dorsum to help stop reguritation, massage the pinky down to about 1/3 of the way down the snakes body into the stomach. then gently place the snake down and slowly release your grip on the snakes head and watch closely, if it doesn't attempt to reguritate straight away and starts moving around, place the snake back into its cage. 

southy 


APS comp #6 by JandC_Reptiles
There is 2 ways of force feeding a snake. Which 1 you will use depends on the size & weight of the animal.
For small animals 8-20g the use of a pinkie pump is in-valuable. For larger animals the only option is manually force feeding tham.


THE PROCESS OF FORCE FEEDING WHOLE PREY ANIMALS:
Firstly I would use a fresh killed rodent of the size needed over thawed/frozen as the later may become a mushy mess. I would dip the head of the rodent into water for lubrication. If the snake has gone some time with out feeding I would use mutton oil. 
Secure the snake behind the head, making certain it has no way of turning its head and sticking its teeth into you. Now carefully introduce the prey item head first to the mouth of the snake. Sometimes, the snake may be reluctant to open its mouth, in which case gently inserting a sterile metal probe will usually do the trick. At this point, some speciemens will decide to swallow the prey without any further help. I would insert the prey item into the snakes mouth & allow the snake to close its jaws. This way the snakes teeth will grab hold of the prey item & make it harder for the snake to spit it back up. I would continue trying this method inserting the rodent deeper & deeper each time untill the snake decides to consume the prey item of its own accord.However, this is not always the case, and you may have to actually have to push the prey item into the throat of the snake.Be very careful and gentle when doing this, as the risk of injury to both the snake and the keeper i!
s not insignificant. Once the prey item is half way into the throat of the snake, use a steril metal metal probe or similar tool to carefully push the prey item all the way in. It is advantageous to push it a bit past the throat towards the stomach, as this makes it less likely that the snake will immediately regurgitate the prey in defiance and discomfort. You may also massage the ventrals of the snake, which will encourage transport to the stomach. With some few specimens, you may be forced to push the prey item all the way into the stomach, as the snake will otherwise regurgitate the prey item right away. By the way, one way of keeping a snake from regurgitating is to place it into a tub with water immediately afterwards. It seems that the snakes tend to become more occupied with searching for a way out of the water than regurgitating the prey, thereby essentially retaining it. This does not always work, but it has proven to be quite effective. 

THE PROCESS OF FORCE FEEDING USING A PINKIE PUMP: (snakes 8-20g)
Load the pumps barrel with the amount of pinkies you wish to feed (2-3max) of 1-4 day old hairless pinkies. It is best if you use frozen/thawed prey items for this method as it will pass easier. Once the pinkies are loaded, fasten the inner cap on the plunger into the cap of the barrel assembly before placing any pressure on the plunger. Failure to do so will provide the plunger with too much side-side movement which will break the glass barrel. Once the inner cap is secured into the cap squeeze the plunger untill you start to see pink coming from the tip. This will remove all air out of the tip before proceeding with force feeding. Just like a syringe the pump has markings along the side of the plunger that measure CC units of volume. Set the volume that is to be fed to the snake. 
Again secure the snakes head. Pry open the snakes mouth using the tip of the pump and insert the tip into the snakes throat untill the mouth of the snake is against the bevel of the tip. Gently put pressure on the plunger to insert the food. 
NOTE: It is important that the fore finger & thumb are used to seal off the throat of the snake while the tip is withdrawn due to vaccume. Again manipulate the food down the esophagus & stomache. A few strokes should be enough to get the food right down.

Olivehydra
G'day Slatey, 

Question 6 How to force feed...... 

Firstly I would make sure the vet is correct in his suggestion. Force feeding should be a last resort as it is very stressful to the snake. If force feeding is required I would start by getting some help to restrain the body of the snake as spinal injury could result if the snake is writhing in its attempt to escape from this invasive procedure. When the snake is properly restrained, open its mouth by pulling down on the skin of its lower jaw.This may be assisted by introducing a blunt object across the mouth such as a pen or "paddle pop" stick (make sure it is clean and avoid damaging the teeth). Introduce the small rodent head first and gently push it beyond the rear line of the jaw. The snake has a swallowing reflex which should begin when the food item is at this point. If the snake begins swallowing, gently release the snake and allow it to finish. Lubricating the food item may help and this can be done by wetting the rodent with water or vegetable oil. If the snake doesnt begin swallowing on its own, the prey item can be pushed further down the gullet (gently) using a lubricated blunt "probe". Further manual massaging of the food item down the gullet can be done in extremely difficult cases. 
Liquid food sources can also be administered, but as the question states a "small rodent" so I will end here. 

Cheers, 
Olivehydra 

robbo 
hi slateman

my answer to question 6 is


firstly if i had no experience with force feeding ( which i don't ) , i would be asking for a demonstration from the vet of how to do it and would not attempt to do it myself till i was confident that i would not harm the snake.
but a way to force feed a non eating snake is to hold their body under an arm or have someone else hold it for you
holding it behind the head gently open its mouth and put the head of the rodent in its mouth , gently pushing it in.
hook the rodent onto the snakes top teeth and see if it will continue to swallow. if not gently push the rodent down with a blunt object till it is all the way in . then hold the snakes mouth shut and gently massage the rodent down to the snakes stomach


junglemad
HI Slatey.

I find it a little odd that the vet wouldn't attempt to force feed the snake with a tube and some sort of protein. I would probably lose faith in the vet if they wanted me to do their job for them and try another with more experience. But if the vet told me to force-feed a rodent then this is how I would do it.

If the snake is large, and the hint was that the snake was large and not a haytchling then i would get an assistant to hold the snake with me, in particular the tail because it is easier to force-feed if the snake is stretched out straight rather than colied around your arm.

Firstly i would soak the rodent in water, this will allow it to slide down the snake's throat easier.Holding the snake firmly behind the head as though it was a lizard or a poisonous snake and holding the rodent with some blunt forceps use the rodent's head to open the mouth of the snake wide enough for the head of the rodent to enter the mouth hopefully in as far as the teeth so the snake's teeth . If the snake won't open its mouth using the rodent i would use a chopstick or a kebab skewer and roll it up the snake's chin until the snake opened its mouth. I would then roll the stick along the inside of the mouth until it is holding the mouth open. Then i would jam the rodent's head into the mouth and have my assisitant slide the stick out.

Then i would push the rodent further into the snake's mouth tucking each of the front legs into the snake's mouth one at a time pressing my index finger on the top of the snake's head to stop it spitting the rodent out. With my free had i would continue to push gently on the forceps to slide more of the rodent into the mouth.

If the snake's swallowing response doesn't kick in i would tickle it under the chin to stimulate the response. It is important to keep pressure on the mouth to keep it from opening up and spitting out the prey.The rodent may have to be pushed down the throat manually if the tickle doesn't work properly. This should be done very carefully so as to not damage the mouth and throat with the rodent and/or the forceps.Once the rodent is past the back teeth hold the mouth shut and rub under the chin to again help it to swallow
Do not relax until the rodent is at least 5 inches past the snake's mouth otherwise the snake may regurgitate the rodent and you will have to start all over again.


dicco
Ok, it's good to have another person present when force feeding a snake, one person to restrain the snake(taking care not to harm the animal) and the other to do the actual force feeding, it makes it more practical than one person holding the snake whilst forcing a rodent down it's throat.
Prior to the feed the rodent the rodent should be wet/moistened so make it go down better, some like to use oil, some dip them in eggs and others just use water. Oil is not that good due to the fats, water is effective.
The snakes mouth should be opened sometimes it just needs to be coaxed a bit but otherwise it will need to be opened using flat blunt object and then place the head of the rodent in the snakes mouth.
What to do next can vary, sometimes if left the snake will consume the rodent on it's own from there, otherwise you can use a blunt soft object to push it down. The instrument should be smaller than the snakes throat and very blunt and soft incase it slips off the rodent and scrapes the throat. Forceps can also be used but they can tear the throat if the scrape against it and if they have soft rubber grips they can come off.


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## zen (Dec 20, 2005)

> a bredli python from southern cross reptiles



Thanks Kahn


Slatemans last post of contributions is interesting & informative.


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## Slateman (Dec 20, 2005)

Thank you all for participating. This scoring was done by peterrescue. I am trying to get scoring done by different people to keep it as fair as possible.

Score for question 6.
hi Jan, this was hard. they are all deserving.
but here goes 
Staffsrule 1.5.
Soulweaver 3
Southy 2.5
JandC 3
Olivehydra 2.5
Robbo 1.5
Junglemad 3
Dicco 2

*score after 6th round.
*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 10 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 9 and half
staffsrule 5 
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 9 and half
junglemad 11
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10 
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 5 and half
Kahn_10 3


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## soulweaver (Dec 20, 2005)

any chance of putting up this weeks question earlier? just cos of xmas day and everything?


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## Slateman (Dec 20, 2005)

Good idea I will put the question erlier.


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## Slateman (Dec 24, 2005)

Just reminder that question 7 is on for some time.

this 7th question is easy becaose christmas holidays.
this time we are erly for question during the holiday season.

*Question 7.*

Your snakes was infestated by mites. Snake just shed his skin. *What you should check after shed* in this situation.



Please answer by Monday evening to email [email protected]


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## Slateman (Dec 27, 2005)

*This is the answer i Was looking for*


_Ensure that the snake had a complete full shed. Mites attack skin and some parts can retain on snake.
Check the snakes underside, tail and head for any skin remaining.To many animals get shed skin still left on their tails and end up with amputation and stumpy tails. 
check headpeice of shed and look for both eye caps (brille) are there. 
_


*This are your posted answers.*
staffsrule
I think what you should check for when snake has shed after having mites is that it is a complete shed. Cause mites cause damage to the snakes scales it may cause problems in shedding. Mite infestation can also cause shedding as well.
I guess another thing to check for would be the presence of mites still on the snake as well. Particuarly in under the chin and around the mouth, under the anal plate etc. Mites have cycles and often one treatment is not enough to completley rid the snake of mites. There still my be mite eggs in the enclosure etc, that can hatch and re infest the snake.
infestations of mites are known as acariasis and can be one of the gretest killers of captive snakes.
Staffsrule.

Junglemad

First thing i would do is wrap the shed skin up and burn it or put it in the garbage bin after spraying it with insecticide.
http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/thewaragainstsnakemites/Mites-TheBattlePlan.htm
here is where i found my answer.
Mites were around before the invention of these chemicals and they will be around for years to come. In the old days mites were controlled with water. It still works today. Mites drown in water so soak the snake until all the mites drown in soapy water. The soap is the key, it reduces the surface tension of the water and makes the water and the snake wetter so the mites drown quicker.
Place the snake in a container with water just deep enough that the snake can barely submerge when resting on the bottom. An inexpensive five or ten gallon aquarium will work great for most snakes. A plastic 30 or 39 gallon trash can is good for fairly big snakes. RubberMaid makes a great inexpensive 50 gallon plastic storage box thats adequate for snakes up to 14-17 feet in length. Remember, were not talking very much water for a small snake. When soaking snakes, dont make the water so deep that the snakes have to swim to be able to breathe; they may become exhausted and drown. Its important to regulate the temperature of the bath of the snake so that it does not chill below the normal temperature to which the snake is accustomed. For most snakes, water temperature of 80-84 0F is a good range. Dont guess the temperature, measure it. 
After the period of soaking, we check around the eyes of snakes to see if there are any mites surviving there--they may have been high and dry throughout the soak if the snake has kept his head out of the water. If we feel there may be mites high and dry around the eyes of a snake that is soaking, we will wipe some dilute soap around the margin of the snake's eyes. With a cotton swab, one also can wipe a little Vaseline into the space around the margin of the eyes of a snake; the "grease" of Vaseline will asphyxiate any mites present or that wander in later. 
Soaking may not be possible if the snake is ill or uncoordinated, or for any reason seems at risk for drowning. Soaking may not be a good idea if the snakes are in their wintering period and are at cool ambient temperatures when the mite are discovered. 
Treating a Snake Cage for Mites
Getting mites off a snake is easy. But it requires some effort to exterminate the mites in the cage of the snake. It is necessary to consider two points to successfully get rid of mites from an infested cage. First, all five life-stages of mites are probably in the snake cage, while only two of the life-stages are on the snake. Mites take nourishment from snakes in the form of blood meals. But then mites usually drop off a snake and go walking around to find a mate or some suitable other place to lay eggs. Often mites climb up the cage sides, stopping at the first corner, knothole, or seam to deposit eggs.
The second point to consider is that mite eggs may be more difficult to find and kill than the mites. In fact, when battling mites it's best to assume that some eggs will survive all your efforts and hatch out. Its no big deal as long as you realize the eggs usually hatch in 1-4 days and you take appropriate measures to be ready for them. 
Now put on your latex gloves and get to work while the snake is soaking. Use a 1.5% Neguvon spray to wet the area around the infested cage, where you are about to work. Clean every thing out of the cage. If youve been using aspen bedding, bark chips, mulch or some similar substrate, dump it or carefully scoop it into a trash can, making as little dust as possible. [Any dust you create will possibly carry with it nymphal mitesdont spread your problem.] Put a moth ball in the trash can, tie the trash bag shut and get it as far from your snake collection as you can. Throw away everything thats not plastic, glass, metal or ceramic. Take everything that you are saving to reuse in the cage, such as the water bowl and hide box, and soak it in a strong disinfectant solution. We use Basic G as our disinfectant. A 10% bleach solution will work just fine. 
Wash out the cage with a strong disinfectant solution, scrub it thoroughly top and bottom, every corner and nook. Most good disinfectants regularly used in cage maintenance will kill mites of any age on contact. We use Basic G (from Shaklee) mixed at oz per gallon. A 10% bleach solution can be used. Then, while the cage is still wet, take a soft bristled brush and scrub the inside and the outside of the cage. Carefully scrub the corners and seams and other possible egg laying sites. On a light-colored surface, the eggs of one female mite will appear as a tiny, tan smudge, almost invisible to the unaided eye. Often many female mites will lay their eggs in the same location. The first wash may not dislodge the eggs and the disinfectant may not kill the eggs, but the eggs are easily scrubbed free with some elbow grease and a brush. They can then be washed out of the cage. 
Rinse and dry the cage. No mites should be present in your cage or on your snake at this point in your treatment. When the snake has completed his soak, put him back in his scrubbed cage. But, making the conservative assumption that, no matter what, a few mite eggs may remain behind, place the appropriate amount of pest strip in the cage for at least a week. In actual practice, we keep pest strips in the cage for three weeks. At this time, according to the battle plan, there are no mites on the snake or inside the cage--what were trying to do is block the return of any mites that may return from outside the cage. It only takes a single virgin female mite to start another infestation. 
REMEMBER, snakes exposed to too high concentrations of fumes from pest strips will suffer a variety of problems, including anorexia, convulsions and death. 
Treating the Snake Room for Mites
There is that last set of mites that you must consider to effect the total eradication of mites from your collection. If your snake has mites, then your snake room likely has mites. Mites, even pregnant female mites, sometimes leave your snake cage and walk around. A pregnant mite can travel dozens of feet in an hour. At that rate a mite can probably walk several times around your snake room in one night. They're certainly capable of changing cages on their own power.
When mites travel, they tend to avoid light, climb upwards, and move toward the scent of snakes. They have an amazing chemosensory ability to detect the odors of snakes. If they have gotten out of the cage with a known infestation, they likely are headed toward another one of your snake cages like tiny little black vampire bloodhounds. 
Here are some suggestions for treating a mite problem in your snake room: First, protect any non-snake animals that may be sensitive to some of the chemicals youve used. Take out of the room any tarantulas, scorpions, hissing roaches, food crickets, birds, fish, small frogs, or small lizards. Remain vigilant and be on the lookout for the mites to crop up in other cages. Carefully check your other snakes' water bowls, looking for that single little fleck of black pepper that tells you the enemy is there. You will almost always find a soggy mite or two drowned in a water bowl before you see them on a snake. 
After you have cleaned your infested ages, bring in your vacuum cleaner or wet/dry vacuum, first suck up a couple of moth balls into the dust bag, and then carefully vacuum the entire snake room. Carefully vacuum around each snake cage. This is especially important if you have a carpeted snake room (better known as a spare bedroom.) Vacuum the room every day for a week. 
After the first vacuuming session, spray a fine mist of 1.5% Neguvon all around your room, around the infested cage(s), the baseboards, the tops of cages and racks, the undersides of shelves, all over any carpet, and especially around other snake cages. We use a 1-gallon or 2-gallon garden sprayer. Just the lightest spray will do, you don't have to soak the carpet. Neguvon smells like pesticide and I don't know that I would use it in a bedroom/snake room--but it works. Repeat the spraying in three days, and then again in a week. Put one moth ball in your snake room trash container, take out the trash in sealed garbage bags every day. 
You can spray 1.5% Neguvon in the snake cages nearest to the infested cages, even spraying the snakes in their cages. However, be careful, some snakes may react badly to Neguvon; don't get carried away. Put appropriate-sized pieces of pest strips in those cages, and keep them fresh for three weeks. 
We have heard from friends and read on the forums that some of the new commercially-available mite sprays and treatments are effective. We have experience with only a few and found them to be ineffective. Some are very dangerous to snakes when used inappropriately. 
There's nothing particularly difficult about getting rid of mites, which is not to say that it's fun or quick. Snake mites are well-designed to thrive in captive snake collections, so it takes a good battle plan, some work, and some disciplined follow-through to eradicate them. Anyone who's had mites in their collection has learned the value of proactively treating new snakes for mites and then quarantining them for at least a couple of weeks.


Southy
ensure that the snake had a complete full shed, check the snakes underside, tail and head for any skin remaining, if not complete shed, soak the animal in water, not enough for the snake to accidently drown in and snake should be watched as too much water could lead to skin rot down the track, then genly peel excess skin off, to many animals get shed skin still left on their tails and end up with amputation and stumpy tails. also check headpeice of shed and look for both eye caps (brille) are there, if not, remove most of the stickiness from a piece of tape by pressing and removing it from a clean surface,then lightly touch the snake's eye with the tape, trying to grab the brille cap and remove it,moistening the eyecap with water or mineral oil first may help. if the eye piece is left, blindness and infections could become of this.
southy


robbo
my answer to qustion 7 is
once the snake has shed you should check the shed skin for any mites than check the snake especially around the eyes and anal scale for them
then i would carry on with the treatmet i am using to get rid of the mites til their breeding cycal has been broken
robbo


Soulweaver
Your snakes was infestated by mites. Snake just shed his skin. What you should check after shed in this situation.
After your snake has shed, you should check to see the eyes have shed as well. Mites burrow into the cavities around the eyes, causing the eye skin not to shed with the rest of the body.
Also check the cage for mites that maybe still alive and can jump back on the snake. They often hide in small dark places within the cage make-up. 



JandC_Reptiles

QUESTION: Your snakes was infestated by mites. Snake just shed his skin. What you should check after shed in this situation. 
ANSWER: I presume the entire collection, enclosures &amp; the Herp room itself have already been treated than? We will assume that the above have in-deed been treated using EG: Top Of Descent or Orange medic &amp; the animals have been quaruntined:
After an animal has shed (in this case 1 snake) I would be looking for signs of any straggling mites that may have been retained or new mites that may have hatched from their eggs that were not removed earlier. Majority of the the harder to get mites or freshly hatched mites may well of been sluffed off along with the shed skin, However it is better to be safe than sorry so I would do this treatment regardless. A final inspection is well worth the effort also. If there is any retained mites they will be at the surface of the new skin in easy to get spots &amp; may be seen. A liberal rub down of the animal with a towel moistened with mineral oil should eradicate them. Once finished rubbing the snake down I would return it to its enclosure in the Quaruntine room (disinfected &amp; sterile condition) After another 10 days in the quaruntine enclosure I would rub down the above mentioned snake once again, completely disinfect its vivariums (collection &amp; quaruntine) then repeat the origin!
al treatment for mite removal (whether you used Top of Descent - Orange medic etc on the animal, &amp; its quarters) Once this has been completed &amp; assuming you have treated the enclosures in both the Herp collection room &amp; the Herp quaruntine room whilst treating the infected snake, it will now be safe to return the animal back to the Herp room.



*Score for question 7*

Staffsrule 2 and 1/2
Junglemad 1
Southy 3
robbo 1/2
soulweaver 2 and 1/2
JandC_Reptiles 1/2


*score after 7th round.*

steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 11 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 12 
staffsrule 7 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 12 and half
junglemad 12
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 6
Kahn_10 3


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## Slateman (Dec 28, 2005)

*Question n.7*

_The tips of snakes ribs can separate widely to alow a large prey item to move down into the body.

Tel me why is this possible, is there something different in snake bone structure to allowe that happen?

_


Please answer by Monday evening to email [email protected]


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## Slateman (Jan 2, 2006)

Just reminding to people that this question should be answered tonight. I think that we should keep it till tuesday evening during new year celebrations.

*Finilize your answer by tomorrow.*


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## Slateman (Jan 4, 2006)

*Question 8
The tips of snake?s ribs can separate widely to allow a large prey item to move down into the body. 

Tell me why is this possible, is there something different in snake bone structure to allow that happen? *
*
Right answer for this question was:*
Snakes do not have a sternum, the ribs are hinged at their base and joined at the tips by ligaments, allowing the passage of very large prey into the gut.

*Your posted answers:*
The reason a snakes ribs can *stretch* so far is because snakes dont have a sternum, the ribs are hinged at their base and joined at the tips by ligaments, allowing very large prey to be swallowed. 
To allow the snake to breathe when swallowing large prey the reinforced windpipe is pushed forward to the front of the lower jaw while they are feeding. 
Staffsrule 


quite simply the snakes atonomy is missing a sternum, which in turn gives the snake the ability to swallow large prey items and allows the ribs to expand to accomodate the meal. if snakes had a sternum, their prey size would have to be much more precise because if the meal was to big, the ribs wont expand and the snake would go hungry until it found something that is suitable. evolution has showed that snakes adapted better to the environment without a sternum so it can swallow larger prey items and the ribs can seperate to accomodate any meal swallowed. 
southy 



Snakes do not have a sternum, the ribs are hinged at their base and joined at the tips by ligaments, allowing the passage of very large prey into the gut. There are tremendous advantages in being able to consume large meals as snakes can (and do) go for many months without feeding.
By JandC_Reptiles


Snake bone structure is different in that snake ribs are not connected to a sternum bone like us for example so the tips can spread widely. The ribs are joined in pairs to the backbone by ligaments which allow the ribs to pivot further than many animals allowing them to swallow large prey items and also to coil tightly. 
Junglemad


Yes. Snakes have backbones, they are classified in the same group (vertebrates) as fish, mammals, birds, and people. The snake?s skeletal system is unique. Snake bones are very light and highly movable. The lower jaws and skull are connected by a piece of stretchy material (ligament). This allows the snake to open its mouth very wide and move each jaw independently. Thus, a snake can swallow prey much larger than its head by ?walking? its mouth around the food from side to side in a forward movement. 
Soulweawer
*
Points for this question;*
Staffsrule 3
southy 2
JandC_Reptiles 3
Junglemad 3
Soulweawer 1



*score after 8th round. *

steve6610 1 
JandC_Reptiles 14 and half 
craig.a.c 1 
OuZo 3 
soulweaver 13 
staffsrule 10 and half 
Dicco 9 and half 
danep 5 
munkee 1 
newtosnakes 2 
jonno 1 
southy 14 and half 
junglemad 15 
westaussie 1 
olivehydra 10 
BUCK 1 
Memphis_Tank 1 
robbo 6 
Kahn_10 3


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## Slateman (Jan 4, 2006)

*Question n.9*

_please name parasites you can find on or inside of snake body.




Please answer by Wednesday evening11.01.06 to email [email protected]_


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## Slateman (Jan 7, 2006)

I have only one answer for this one so far.


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## staffsrule (Jan 7, 2006)

Did you get my answer Slateman ?


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## Slateman (Jan 8, 2006)

Ihave only 2 answers for this question so far. Here is the chance for some people to catch up. Don't forget we are just on begining of this comp, and price is nice bredli from Southern Cross reptiles.

Yes Stafsrule, I have your answer now. Thanks.


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## soulweaver (Jan 8, 2006)

just letting you know i am dropping out, don't have the time to answer these questions anymore.................good luck everyone else in the running!!


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## southy (Jan 9, 2006)

mine will be in on wed arvo slatey


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## Slateman (Jan 9, 2006)

No problem.


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## Slateman (Jan 12, 2006)

*Answers for question n. 9*

JandC_reptiles
Pin-worms
round-worms
hook-worms
whip-worms
tape-worms
lung-worms
protozoa
Ticks
Mites
Flukes
Trypanosomes
Trichomoniasis or Trichomonas
Amebiasis
Bacteria
Malaria
Dracunculoidea
Ascaridida
Spirurida
Oyurids
Dracunculoidea
Filarioidea
Kalicephalus
Capillaria
Bothridium
Ophiotaenia
Rhabdias
Hirudinea
leeches
Helminths.

As the question was "please name parasites you can find on or inside of snake body" The answers should not be held for AUSTRALIAN ANIMALS ONLY, but snakes worldwide.

Robbo
internal 
- amoebae 
- flagellates
- protozoa
- round worms
- tape worms
- flukes

external
- mites
ticks


Junglemad
Inside a snake may have a varity of protozoa

Flukes will effect the repiratory and urinary tract
Tapeworm in the digestive system
Roundworms in the digestive system as adult and other organs when in the juvenile stage of growth, particularly the lungs
Amoeba from contaminated food and water cause Amoebiasis
Trichomonas from rats and mice result in a condition called Trichomoniasis

The outside of a snake can harbour mites and ticks. 



Southy
internal parasites 

Protozoan infections: 
Amoebae- death can be the first systom shown of an infection. signs to look for are lethargic muscles, reguritation of meals or not interested in feeding, unseemingly endless thirst for water, and watery-green or bloody diarrhoea or constipation. if a constipational blockage, it can be felt as a very large, hard lump usually between 3/4 to cloaca down the snake. also snakes tend to coil loosely. if any of these other symptoms dont stand out, faecal examination can be determine amoebae and flagyl is the antibotic given orally. the most comman way these infections start is through feeding infected food items. it is highly contageous and animal should be isolated immediately. 

Flagellates: 
can cause such diseases as necrotic enteritis. outbreaks of intestinal flagellates are often prompted by inadequate cage conditions or stress. some flagellates eg trichomonads, are that contagious that if introduced into a collection, will spread regardless of cage condition. the symptons are that simialar to amoebae. treatment involves oral administration of emtryl. if the reptile can be trusted to drink regurarly, the drug can be added to the water. 

round worms: 
round worms or nematodes are unsegmented and cylindrical in cross section. some round worms inhabit the digestive tracts and can reach dangerous numbers. because some worms attach themselves to the gut wall, local ulcerations that become infected can occur secondarily. you may see some ascarid worms in the faeces if in moderate numbers.worm eggs can be detected by a vet by faecal eximination. ascarid nematodes are elimated with piperazine given orally at a dosage rate of 110mg/kg. hookworms are treated with mebendozole at 50-100mg/kg. 

tapeworms or skinworms: 
tapeworms are parasitic flat, ribbon like worms. adult worms live in the gut and their long ribbon like body consists of a chain of segments. in this adult stage, they are usually detected in the digestive tracts. like round worms, numbers in capivity can become extremely high and cause ulcerations. they also sap the energy out and can cause malnutrition or intestinal blockages. faecal eximination again will determine the presence and will be treated with droncit at 2-7mg/kg given orally with smaller animals given higher dosages. the larvae of some tapeworms are found as cysts beneath the skin particually frog eating snakes.they cysts are harmless but for aesthetic reasons are removed by a small skin incision, then squeezed partially out then grasped by foreseps and pulled out. 

flukes: 
flukes are parasitic flatworms also known as trematodes. adult may live in the liver, gut, lung or blood vessels where they cause serious disease. swamp inhabiting snakes usaully have lung flukes. treatment can be difficult since the killing of the flukes can result in a more serious problem when they ldoge in respiratory tracts. 

external parasites: 

ticks: 
ticks are usually found on wild animals. can be removed with dabbing alcohol on them, with tweezers carefully making sure not to inject poisen in. found under the scales, if not removed, will drop off eventually then may lay eggs or move onto another host. 

mites: 
the snake mite ophionyssus natricis is believed to be an exotic species coming with exotic imports. often the most common yet can be fatal parasite known to captive snakes, it is one parasite that all reptile owners don't want. mites like the warmth and darkness. by day the hide, while at night get under the snakes scales and sucks blood. under good conditions, they will breed when a few weeks old. a mite full of blood can fast for more than 14 days or more . the nymphs hatch out at 10-35 days, depending temperature. in no time an entire collection can be infested before you know it. they are particually dangerous to small or juvenile specimens and could end up in the death of the snake. some spectulations has it that they also carry diseases but not yet proven. once in a collection are very hard to erradicate, often with outbreaks from time to time. they can be controlled to an extent, by keeping cage conditions clean, putting new snakes through a "quarantine" process. they are so small to the naked eye are very hard to see. eye inflamination, inflamination beanth body scales, blood gorged mites and cage floor or soaking in water bowl for long periods of time. usually if soaking in water, the mites can be seen at the bottom presumably drowned. if no water bowl, may be constantly on the move rubbing against cage furniture. be careful if your snake soaks in water too long as scale rot, canker or respirartory infection may occur and make problems more serious. there are many ways to treat mites through "fogging" rooms with d-phenothrin, shelltox pest strip, dri-dir 67 powder, top of decent spray or neguvon spray. most if not all of these require the animal not to be in the room when treating and ALL food, water bowls and water sources removed. ive used top of decent before, found best used at night when the mites are active and sprayed every 3-5 days for about 6 weeks to ensure any eggs that were laid, are killed when hatched so that don't get old enough to breed and cause new outbreaks. i would meantion the other methods but i would be here till next week. 

Stafsrules
Ok, on the outside of your snake you can get mites and ticks. Both of these little nasties will embed themselves under scales and around eyes ect. 
Internal parasites - Roundworms, tapeworm, lungworms and flukes. These little nasties actualy live off the food your snake is trying to ingest, robbing him of much of his needed nutrients. 

Both internal and external parasites can be easily passed from one reptile to another. 

*
Points for this question;* 
Staffsrule 1.5
Southy 2.5
junglemad 2.5
robbo 2.5
JandC_reptiles 3

*score after 9th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 17 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 12
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 17 
junglemad 17 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 8 and half
Kahn_10 3


----------



## Slateman (Jan 12, 2006)

*Question 10*

Can freshly killed female stimulate male to mate?
If yes, why?
If not Why?


Please answer by Wednesday evening18.01.06 to email [email protected]


----------



## Rennie (Jan 13, 2006)

I hadn't really paid much attention to this comp before, my woman says we have too many pets as it is. Man half of these answers are like essays! Its very informative but I'm glad I'm not the judge LOL
Keep up the good work Slateman and good luck people!


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## Slateman (Jan 13, 2006)

It is informative and people who are in comp do learn lot by finding the right answers.
I understand that not all people have time for it or don't like this type of activity.
There is not always essay to be written. If you look at question 9. 10 worlds would be fine. But if people like to come with complex answer like southy, it is great for all of us. I learned bit by reading his answer.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 13, 2006)

Slateman,
Funily enough I answered the same as the others with the added info below: 

Pin-worms
round-worms
hook-worms
whip-worms
tape-worms
lung-worms
protozoa
Ticks
Mites
Flukes
Trypanosomes
Trichomoniasis or Trichomonas
Amebiasis
Bacteria
Malaria
Dracunculoidea
Ascaridida
Spirurida
Oyurids
Dracunculoidea
Filarioidea
Kalicephalus
Capillaria
Bothridium
Ophiotaenia
Rhabdias 
Hirudinea 
leeches
Helminths. 

As the question was "please name parasites you can find on or inside of snake body" The answers should not be held for AUSTRALIAN ANIMALS ONLY, but snakes worldwide.

EDIT:
I just checked my email sent box & it seems I sent the email as question 8 not 9, is this what effected my answer?


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## Slateman (Jan 13, 2006)

You have got me there mate. I was thinking only local.


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## Slateman (Jan 14, 2006)

I am sorry J and C but I did not received any answer from you under question 9. *You put there question 8 by mistake. *That is why I missed your answer. That is why you did not haqve any points counted. I am correcting this mistake right now and apologize for that.


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## Slateman (Jan 15, 2006)

You have all till Wednesday eavning to answer question n.10


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## Slateman (Jan 19, 2006)

*Answers:*
Answer for APS comp #10 by *JandC_Reptiles*
The answer is YES provided she had been releasing FEREMONES.
Even a shed skin of a female that had been producing feremones can stimulate a male.

Answer from *Southy*
Yes, If shes in season as she produces pheramones during this period to attract males. You can even use a fresh shed skin off a female that males are interested in to get them to mate with females they are not by rubbing it over them.
The dead snakes dont have to be that fresh as theres reports of male snakes trying to mate with a dead female for a few days in a row.

Answers from *Staffsrule*
I think a freshly killed female would be able to stimulate a male to mate. Mating (from what I beleive) is triggered when the male cops a smell of a female. Females when ready to mate release pheromones, wich the males smell and that tell him she is ready to rock !! If the female was receptive to males when she was killed she would be emitting pheromones, therefore he would still be able to smell them and would prob have no clue she was dead.

Answers from *Junglemad*
My answer is Yes, a freshly killed female snake can stimulate a male snake to mate. I refer to studies by Shine 1986 that have discovered that female file snakes can exude a pheromone from their skin to attract up to 12 males at a time. A freshly killed female in breeding condition and in oestrus should still attract a male.

Shine et al 2003 conducted further experiments with garter snakes whereby the skin lipids extracted from females in breeding condition stimulated males to begin courtship behavior with a towel - chin pressing etc.

In a later experiment a freshly killed (by crows apparently cough cough bullshit cough cough) female snake garter snake was tied to a fishing rod and lowered into an outdoor enclosure within range of a male.The females used were less than 24 hours dead and stimulated the males to align along the dead female with their bodies in 12/12 cases of male snakes caught within a den agregation and 9/12 of the males that were caught free ranging.

*
Points for this question;* 
Staffsrule 3
Southy 3
JandC_reptiles 3
Junglemad 3

*score after 10th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 20 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 15
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 20 
junglemad 17 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 8 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. JandC_Reptiles 20 and half
2. junglemad 20 and half
3. southy 20
4. staffsrule 15
5. soulweaver 13



PS. I had to change this result as Junglemad sent me the answer with proof of right date. (Problem with internet)


New questions:


*Question 11*

Why males have usually thicker tail base than females?
Please answer by Wednesday evening 25.01.06 to email [email protected]



*Question 12*

Which female snake lay more eggs in general: King Brown or Eastern Brown? and explain why.
Please answer by Wednesday evening 1.02.06 to email [email protected]


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## FAY (Jan 19, 2006)

HEHE
I think that it would be much easier to save up the money and buy your own bredl!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Slateman (Jan 20, 2006)

Only differenc would be that you miss all the fun and learning about reptiles. Some people who are involved in this comp did e-mail me and ask if they can donate the snake in case they win.
Looks like few people are playing to have fun and learn bit about our hobby. Price is not the main target here.


----------



## Slateman (Jan 29, 2006)

*Answers question11:*
From: staffsrule To: Slateman Posted: Jan 21, 2006 - 02:17 PM Subject: Southern Cross Reptile Comp 
I think male snakes have a thicker tail base because of the 2 Hemipenes, the male reproductive organ.

APS COMP #11 by JandC_Reptiles
The base of a males tail is more thicker than a females due to its hemipenes.
The buldge of the hemipenes makes the tail slightly broader &amp; curve in the first 5 sub-caudal scales in comparison to a females tail which is finely tapered at an evenly distrubution.

 robbo
hi slateman 
my answer for question 11 is
males usually have a thicker tail base than females because that is where the hemipenis is
robbo

Junglemad
Here is my answer to question 11
Many male snakes have a thicker tail base than females because the hemipenes make the tails of males longer and thicker than the tails of females. It is easier to look at a few to see the differences though it is not an infallible method of sexing snakes like probing or popping.
When viewed in profile male tails are generally 50% as thick in the middle as at they base. Female tails are usually 25% as thick a quarter of the tail's length from the base.
These differences are more pronounced in adults of the same species 
Junglemad

Southy
male have a thicker tail base due to the 2 hemipenis they have, and id want that extra room too if i had 2 
Southy

*
Points for this question;* 
Staffsrule 3
Southy 3
JandC_reptiles 3
Junglemad 3
robbo 3

*score after 11th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 23 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 18
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 23 
junglemad 20 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 11 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. JandC_Reptiles 23 and half
2. junglemad 23 and half
3. southy 23
4. staffsrule 18
5. soulweaver 13


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## Slateman (Jan 31, 2006)

Please don't forget that question 12 is due tomorrow.
So far I have answer from Junglemad and J and c Reptiles.


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## Slateman (Feb 4, 2006)

Question 12

Which female snake lay more eggs in general: King Brown or Eastern Brown? and explain why.
More eggs?-eastern Brown
Why?-King Brown have large eggs

*Answers question12:*
Stafsrule
The Eastern Brown Snake (or common brown) lays more eggs than the King Brown Snake (or Mulga ). 
The Eastern Brown laying clutches of 10 - 35 eggs and the King Brown laying clutches of 7 - 20 eggs. 
The reason for this is that the King Brown snake is not a brown snake at all but in fact it is a black snake. 
Black snakes having smaller clutches in general than Brown snakes. 

Southy
eastern brown snakes lay more than the king brown or mulga snake due to the egg size the king brown lays. hatchling easterns avg snout-vent length of 19cm, kings avg snout-vent length of 25cm. 


Junglemad
Eastern Browns lay more eggs than King Browns. The Eastern Brown average clutch is around 16 eggs and the King Brown usually lays around 9.
The reason for this are the different reproductive strategies used by both species.Eastern Brown evolution has resulted in a strategy of producing more eggs than King Browns but King Brown hatchlings are twice the size of an Eastern Brown hatchling. The breeding energy of each species has been used either on producing more individuals or on producing fewer larger individuals.

Jand C_Reptiles

The Eastern brown snake averages larger clutches than the King brown snake.
The Eastern brown lays between 10 - 35 eggs while the King brown only lays between 9 - 16 eggs 

This is because of the size differences between the eggs.
The king brown lays larger diameter eggs than the Eastern brown. 

Of course hatchlings are also larger at birth. 
King browns average 25cm in length at hatching while Eastern browns average only 19cm in length at hatching. 

*
Points for this question;* 
Staffsrule 2.5
Southy 3
JandC_reptiles 3
Junglemad 3


*score after 11th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 26 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 26
junglemad 23 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 11 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. JandC_Reptiles 26 and half
2. junglemad 26 and half
3. southy 26
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. soulweaver 13

*
Guestion 13
*
name australian snake with recorded largest difference between male and female able to mate sexesfully
*Please answer by Wednesday evening 8.02.06 to email [email protected]*


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## Slateman (Feb 11, 2006)

Question 13
name australian snake with recorded largest difference between male and female able to mate sexesfully

Only two answers this time.

The most extreme size difference that I could find was in a mating pair of filesnakes. The female was ten times larger thatn the female. The male weighed 400 grams and the female was 4 kilograms!
junglemad


I recently submitted my answer being:
The file snake - Arochordus arafurae - has been recorded with the largest size/weight difference between sexes that has successfully mated. The male weighed 400g while the female weighed 4000g.
JandC_Reptiles

score;
Junglemad 3 points
JandC_Reptiles 3 points

*score after 13th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 29 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 26
junglemad 29 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 11 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 29 and half
2. JandC_Reptiles 29 and half
3. southy 26
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. soulweaver 13

Guestion 14

Is there known reason for colour variation in australian snakes?
*Please answer by Wednesday evening 15.02.06 to email [email protected]*


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## africancichlidau (Feb 14, 2006)

yes.


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## Slateman (Feb 20, 2006)

*Our question was:*
*Is there known reason for colour variation in australian snakes?*

This question was bit tricky. Our authorities agree that our Australian snakes do have great variety of colour, but the significance of this variation is unnown.
Example is Brown tree snake. range from being brown with blackbands to whitewith red bands.
Sometimes considerable variation is seen even with in a single population.

So there is no definate answer to this question. Yes or No would be same.
Some reason for colours of our snakes are known and many reasons are mystery.

*Answers from contestants:*

By JandC_Reptiles

I would say yes for several reasons.
.
In captive bred animals it is possible for breeders to mutilate genes to get different variation. 
Many specialised morphs are produced this way as has been seen over the years.

In wild populations colour variation may occur for the following circumstances.
CAMOUFLAGE: (for either predation or safety)
Death adders for eg: Have different banding/markings and colour which is determined by thier locality.
Evolution has helped them blend in to thier enviornment. This helps with predation as the death adder is an ambush predator. Other snakes may camoflauge for safety reasons. Some hatchlings for eg: start of rather drab in colour in their early years and do not colour up untill they are alot older &amp; larger.
HEATING: Diamonds for eg: In colder enviornments these snakes exhibit more black than animals from warmer climates which may display more yellow or white etc. This is to help attract warmth from the sun &amp; retain this heat for longer (much like a radiator of an automobile)

Southy 
yes there is a reason, these colours camoflage (spelling) well in their environment 

Junglemad
Is there any known reason for colour variation in Australian Snakes?

One reason for colour variation has to do with habitat.The greens of tree snakes and the earthy tones of ground dwelling snakes help to camouflage the animal from predation.

Richard Shine noticed in Bandy Bandys that the bright colours act as an optical illusion in the near darkness to confuse a predator. He calls this illusion 'flicker fusion' and explains it as being similar to the way in old movies the spokes of wagon wheels appear to be travelling backwards instead of forwards.He released a Bandy Bandy in his room and treid to catch it without turning on the lights The jerky motions of the snake made it difficult to tell whether the brightly moving bands were travelling forwards or backwards.

Stripes on fast moving snakes can be confusing too for if you focus on the stripe instead of the animal it can seem like the snake is still even though it may be moving along quickly.

Brown Snakes, Taipans and Woma tend to be darker in the winter months than they are in the summer to assist in heating quicker while basking in colder weather.

The Oenpelli python changes from a brown colour in the daytime to a silver grey at dusk to assist with hunting in the moonlight.

The only variation in colour due to sexuality occurs in some seasnakes. The Female Shark Bay seasnake is a dark purplish brown whereas the male is brown without the purple.

Dark colours absorb radiant heat better than lighter colours. The further south you go the blacker diamond pythons become compared to the high yellow of the northern boundary of their range.Tiger snakes found in the southern regions of australia are often black for the same reason.


*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 2
JandC_Reptiles 2
Southy 1


*score after 14th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 31 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 27
junglemad 31 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 11 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 31and half
2. JandC_Reptiles 31 and half
3. southy 27
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. soulweaver 13

Guestion 15

Please name the bone to which the fangs are attached
*Please answer by Wednesday evening 22.02.06 to email [email protected]*


----------



## Slateman (Feb 25, 2006)

*Answers for question 15:*



By JandC_Reptiles
A snakes fangs are attached to a bone called the Maxilla (maxillary bone)

Some also call this the dentary bone but this would be politically in-correct.

Robbo 
my answer to questio 15 is 
the name of the bone to which the fangs are attached is the maxilla , which also support oter small teeth in most elapids

Junglemad
The bone that the fangs are connected to is called the Maxillary Bone. 


*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 3
JandC_Reptiles 3
Robbo 3


*score after 14th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 34 and half
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 27
junglemad 34 and half
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 14 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 34and half
2. JandC_Reptiles 34and half
3. southy 27
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. Robbo 14 and half

Guestion 16

Why is snake windpipe able to supply air during feeding of large pray. One should think that windpipe will be squeezed during feeding? Why is always maintaining its shape?
*Please answer by Wednesday evening 01.03.06 to email [email protected]*


----------



## JandC_Reptiles (Mar 2, 2006)

Just wondering when the answers are being posted and the next question submitted?


----------



## Slateman (Mar 3, 2006)

Usual dedline is wednesday and new question is launched latest by Sunday.


----------



## Slateman (Mar 3, 2006)

Guestion 16
Why is snake windpipe able to supply air during feeding of large pray. One should think that windpipe will be squeezed during feeding? Why is always maintaining its shape? 

*Right answer:
A snake can still breath while feeding on a large prey item because the windpipe is strengthened by cartilaginous rings to keep shape and the glottis which can extend from the end of the windpipe out under the food item to keep suppling air to breath*

People posted answers with lot of right informations, but I was looking for answer why windpipe don't get squeezed. and cartilaginous rings are the reason.

*Answers received.*

Junglemad
Snakes are able to breath when eating large prey items because their windpipes are fitted with a snorkel named the glottis or epiglottis which is a muscular extension that extends forward under the prey item. The windpipe doesn't collapse because it is reinforced with cartilage.

Southy
cartilidge around the trachea (breathing tube) of the snake mouth protect it and keep its shape and the tube can move to either side of the mouth or underneath the food to breathe while feeding.The trachea can be pushed forward over the tongue and out the mouth so that the snake can breathe while swallowing. 

By JandC_Reptiles
Snakes have a movable windpipe which aids in breathing while eating by moving the glottis/windpipe past the food source so it may still inhale/exhale air. This is also why it holds its shape & is never squeezed or squashed while feeding.
When a snake opens its mouth wide and pulls its tongue back, you 
can see a hole down at the bottom of the mouth. This hole is called the 
glottis, which is the opening and valve to the trachea, or windpipe. When a 
snake breathes, it pulls air into the trachea lung by expanding its rib 
cage, and pushes air back out of the lung by contracting its rib cage, 
because snakes have no diaphragm (the diaphragm is the large muscle below 
our lungs that help us breathe). When a 
snake eats large prey its mouth is totally filled and its airway can be 
blocked. In order to still breathe, snakes can extend their glottis outward 
to the edge of the mouth beneath the prey. This means the snake basically has a 
snorkel that it can stick out below its meal so it can still breathe while 
eating large food. 

Robbo
hi slateman my answer to question 16 is
a snake can still breath while feeding on a large prey item because the windpipe is strengthened by cartilaginous rings to keep shape and the glottis which can extend from the end of the windpipe out under the food item to keep suppling air to breath

*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 2.5
JandC_Reptiles 1.5
Robbo 3
Southy 2.5

*score after 16th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 36
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 29 and half
junglemad 37 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 17 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 37
2. JandC_Reptiles 36
3. southy 29 and half
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. Robbo 17 and half


----------



## Slateman (Mar 3, 2006)

*Question 17*

name australian snake which changes colour from brown by day to silver gray by night.
Please answer by Wednesday evening08.03.06 to email [email protected]

Don't post answer here please


----------



## Slateman (Mar 8, 2006)

Don't forget question 17 today.


----------



## Craig2 (Mar 8, 2006)

who won the snakie


----------



## Slateman (Mar 9, 2006)

Comp is only on question 17 magic. we have long time to go.


----------



## Slateman (Mar 10, 2006)

Question 17

name australian snake which changes colour from brown by day to silver gray by night.

We have 3 right answers from:

Junglemad
the snake that changes colour is the Oenpelli Python Morelia Oenpelliensis of the Kakadu escarpment.
It is a drab brown in the day but it fades to a silver-grey colour at dusk 

Southy
oenpelli python 

robbo
hi slateman 
my answer to question 17 is
the oenpelli python / morelia oenpelliensis changes from brown by day to silver grey by night

*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 3
Robbo 3
Southy 3

*score after 17th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 36
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 32 and half
junglemad 40 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 20 and half
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 40
2. JandC_Reptiles 36
3. southy 32 and half
4. staffsrule 20 and half
5. Robbo 20 and half


New question 18.
Name living family of Australian lizards which are closest relatives of snakes. And name most obvious anatomic feature they have which resemble snakes.


Please answer by Wednesday evening15.03.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Don't post answer here please


----------



## Slateman (Mar 20, 2006)

*New question 18.*
Name living family of Australian lizards which are closest relatives of snakes. And name most obvious anatomic feature they have which resemble snakes.

I have this 4 answers to judge. I Just wanted the family which is closest and that should be goannas and the one obvious feature, fork tongue. The answers are more complicated and its starting to become very controversial now. I had to ask for help to judge this 4 answers.

Docrok help was needed this time. This is his answer:
The origin of snakes is very poorly understood and a topic of hot debate by scientists today. There are two general theories; that snakes evolved from terrestrial burrowing lizards; that snakes evolved in the marine environment and migrated back onto land. The first theory is probably the most popular and basically says that snakes evolved from marine reptiles like the mososaurs which are related to the varanids and hence snakes and goannas are closely related. A forked tongue would be the obvious likeness between the two.
It is a generally held view that the pygopods are most closely related to the geckos and I am unaware of a significant body of research that would put them as a close relative of the snakes.


Junglemad
The family of lizards that are the closest relatives of snakesis PYGOPODIDAE.
The obvious anatomic feature is the slender elongated body shape and the absence of forelimbs. The back legs are mere vestiges or flaps.
AS a result of more research later in the week I found that this is perhaps not the totally correct answer. A team from Melbourne led by Bryan Fry (2005)suggests that venomous snakes and lizards share the same ancestor based on DNA analysis. The family outlined in this study as the closest relatives of snakes are the Iguanians. The classic rattlesnake venom toxins are found in the Bearded Dragon!
So i am hedging my bets...if the question is strictly about outward anatomical appearance then my answer is Pygopodidae and the obvious features they share are leglessness and body elongation. If we are talking about molecular phylogeny such as venom and egg teeth then my answer is Agamidae.
Junglemad

Robbo
hi slate man my answer to question 18 is
the closest living family of lizards to snakes in australia is the Varanidae ( goannas ) family
the most obious way they resembale snakes is that they have a deeply forked tounge
robbo


APS comp #18 by JandC_Reptiles
The living family of Australian lizards that is closest related to snakes are Monitors.
The most anatomic feature they have that resembles snakes is their forked tongues.


Southy
family Varanidae. forked tongues resemble snakes the most

-- 


*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 0.5
Robbo 2.5
Southy 2.5
JandC_Reptiles 2.5

*score after 18th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 38.5
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 20 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 35
junglemad 40 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 23 
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 40.5
2. JandC_Reptiles 38.5
3. southy 35 
5. Robbo 23
4. staffsrule 20.5



New question 19.
Tell me aproximately age of snakes when they stop Growing.

Please answer by Wednesday evening22.03.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Don't post answer here please


----------



## Slateman (Mar 21, 2006)

New question 19.
Tell me aproximately age of snakes when they stop Growing.

Please answer by Wednesday evening22.03.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Don't post answer here please


just reminder.


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## MrBredli (Mar 21, 2006)

Is that a trick question?


----------



## Slateman (Mar 21, 2006)

Mr Bredli question is a question. I can't tell you till Wednesday. 8) :lol:  :wink:


----------



## Slateman (Mar 26, 2006)

New question 19.
Tell me aproximately age of snakes when they stop Growing.

This are the correct answers

Junglemad
Snakes never stop growing, they grow fastest when they are young. This growth rate slows down as the snake gets older but it doesn't stop.


Robbo
hi slateman my answer for question 19 is
snakes stop growing when they die as they usually keep growing throughout there lives just slowing down as they get older


JandC_Reptiles
It is my understanding that snakes never cease growing.
Their growth may slow but they will never completely stop growing.

Staffsrule
I dont think there is an approx age. I have been led to beleive that they (well pythons at least) never stop growing. Their growth rate does slow down as they get older though. 

Southy
newer cease growing.


*Points for this answer:*
Junglemad 3
Robbo 3
staffsrule 3
JandC_Reptiles 3
Southy 3

*score after 19th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 41.5
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 38.5
junglemad 43.5 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 26 
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 43.5
2. JandC_Reptiles 41.5
3. southy 38.5
5. Robbo 26
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 20.
Which Australian snake is the most cold-adopted

Please answer by Wednesday evening29.03.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Don't post answer here please


----------



## Slateman (Mar 27, 2006)

Please make sure when using email to use option return receipt to see if your e-mail arrived safely to my inbox. 
It is no good to complain that e-mail was sent and did not arived. I can understand if that happen once and adjust score, but not second time.


----------



## Slateman (Mar 31, 2006)

*Question 20 answer
White-lipped snake is the most cold-adopted of all our snakes and occurs above the winter snowline at Mount Kosciuszko.*


Junglemad 
The snake most adapted to the cold is the Black Tiger Snake, also known as the Island Tiger Snake latin name Notechis ater niger of Reevesby and Roxby Islands south of South Australia.


robbo
my answer for question 20 which australian snake is the most cold-adopted is
white - lipped snake ( drysdalia coronoides ) 


southy
tasmanain tiger snake 


JandC_Reptiles

My answer is the Broad headed snake (Hoplocephalus bungaroides).


*Points for this answer:*

Robbo 3




*score after 20th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 41.5
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 38.5
junglemad 43.5 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 29 
Kahn_10 3
This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 43.5
2. JandC_Reptiles 41.5
3. southy 38.5
5. Robbo 29
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 21.
What snake is named after defensive posture it adopts when alarmed?

Please answer by Wednesday evening05.04.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Don't post answer here please


----------



## Slateman (Apr 4, 2006)

Just reminder Wednesday is close


----------



## Slateman (Apr 6, 2006)

*My question was: What snake is named after the defensive posture it assumes when alarmed. *

*I had in mind our australian curl snake as right answer, but after thinking it ower when your answers came , I must say that there is many snakes named after they defensive posture.
I decided to give each player ½ point for each right answer. And 1 extra point for participating. Well done.
*

Robbo
my answer for question 21 is
curl snake / myall snake ( suta suta )


By JandC_Reptiles.
My answer would be the hooded cobra which displays its caped hood when in a defensive pose.

Also the following 2 animals are also named after their defensive actions but I am not sure if these would qualify to your question of posture.

Rattle snakes use their tail rattle when in defense mode.
Spitting cobras spit venom when in defense mode.

AntaresiaLady
After some searching, I located information that lead me to the answer below:
The Cottonmouth Snake- Agkistrodon piscivorus, is named after the posture it takes when on the defense- it opens its mouth to reveal the inside of it, which led to them being called cottonmouth.
They are quite aggressive by nature, and are a large aquatic venomous snake. They’ve been recorded as getting to approx 6 foot in length. 
I’m not sure how good the picture will be- I had to resize it. 

junglemad
The Ball Python is named because it curls up into a ball when alarmed
The Rattlesnake is named after the way it rattles its tail when it is alarmed
ThePuff Adder is named after the way it puffs itself up when alarmed
The Cotton Mouth is named after the white inside coluration of its mouth which it opens when alarmed. 


Southy
a rattlesnake? 

*Points for this answer:*

Robbo 1.5
JandC_Reptiles 1.5
Antaresia Lady 1.5
Junglemad 2.5
Southy 1



*score after 20th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 43
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 39.5
junglemad 46 
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 30.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 1.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 46
2. JandC_Reptiles 43
3. southy 39.5
5. Robbo 30.5
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 22.
 Name main reason why hospital staff wait before they actually treat the bite from venomous snake?

Please answer by Wednesday evening12.04.06 to email [email protected][/size]*

Please don't post your answers here.*


----------



## TrueBlue (Apr 6, 2006)

slatey, you forgot the most obvious, The brown snakes, pseudonaja, meaning false cobra.


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## Slateman (Apr 6, 2006)

There is quite few I forgot. I would get only 1.5 point my self. 
Junglemad blow me off.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 6, 2006)

Shouldn't I of got 2.5 points for my 3 answers?


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## MrBredli (Apr 6, 2006)

Slateman said:


> Junglemad blow me off.



:shock: :shock: :shock: 

Fight! Fight! Fight!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 6, 2006)

Hold on.. are thems fighting words..? ... i hope so cos i don't like the other alternative :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## NoOne (Apr 6, 2006)

:shock: that was a bit random :shock: 

Bloody funny though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Slateman (Apr 7, 2006)

JandC_Reptiles said:


> Shouldn't I of got 2.5 points for my 3 answers?



I don't know, I could not decide if spiting is posture. That is why I did not included spiting cobra. Question was *named after the defensive posture* If I am wrong, I will corect the score, please feel welcome to put your opinion on that, I will take advice on this from any 3th party.


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I agree with you Slateman, spitting is not a posture, it's a defence mechanism. Sorry J&C.


----------



## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 7, 2006)

Yes that was my opinion also.
Displaying a cotton mouth, rattling a tail, rolling into a ball etc are all defensive actions also. A snake making a puffing noise or rattling its tail to make a noise isn't so much a position of posture either. Points were awarded for those answers so I don't see why not


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I agree with you re: ratlling.. the Rattler is named after the noise it makes when alarmed, not the posture it takes. The other two i believe are correct though. JMO.


----------



## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 7, 2006)

The cobra does take on a posture in order for its defense mechanism though, that being to stand erect & to spit at its attacker. I don't know if they can spit while at ground height on their bellies so I assume it may infact take on that posture for that reason?

So I may be semi right?


----------



## junglemad (Apr 7, 2006)

stop crying...pass me my bredli. Why wasn't my answer right last week or the week before???


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I think spitting and rattling fall into the same category. They are usually accompanied by a certain posture, but 'spitting' and 'rattling' can't be considered a 'posture' in themselves. Whereas rolling up into a ball, or displaying a cotton coloured mouth are obviously types of postures. JMO.


----------



## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 7, 2006)

NP, I agree.
Thats why I mentioned in my answer that I was unsure.
I guess it is more of a threat posture with a defense action involved. 

Remove points for rattlers & puffers & I will stop crying lol.


----------



## junglemad (Apr 7, 2006)

you don't think rattling a tail is a defensive posture? you don't think puffing yourself up is a defensive posture??? what would you call it?

this Bredli better be a hypo


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I was thinking along the lines of posture meaning "position of body" rather than what the animal actually does (i.e. rattles, spits). Good point though junglemad, i'm going to refer to the dictionary..


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## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

a position the body can assume, for example standing, sitting, kneeling, or lying down

a position, attitude, or stance that is intended to deceive

the way in which somebody carries his or her body, especially when standing


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 7, 2006)

I think rattling & puffing are defensive actions. 
Both species (rattlers & puffers) emit noise by an action, neither actually take on a posture that defines its name. Same as spitting cobra's, they take on a posture of standing erect & spitting venom yet that answer is not valid. Standing erect is a mere threat posture & spitting is a defensive action. 


Puffing isn't the adder inflating itself, it is a loud hissing noise the species makes.


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I stand by my above comment..i believe the question was asking for snakes named after "a position the body can assume"


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

I'm with you on that one too J&C.


----------



## junglemad (Apr 7, 2006)

so the body assumes a posture without the tail?


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

The tail is part of the posture, but the sound it makes isn't. JMO


----------



## junglemad (Apr 7, 2006)

get ready for a ten page answer for the next one


----------



## MrBredli (Apr 7, 2006)

Haha.. the best i could do is one sentence and 9 pages of pics.


----------



## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 7, 2006)

Ok Puffers, Rattlers & spitting Cobra's is incorrect.

I'll be happy to lose 1/2 a point off my score for rattlers
along with southy's 1.5 points for rattlers & bonus point
& junglemads 1 point for rattlers & puffers


----------



## Slateman (Apr 9, 2006)

OK. You all can't get me clear answer, so poor me Knowing only Slatemans Englisch opened dictionary mof english language. (N.G.Garmonsway)

Stating this:

POSTURE.....Manner of holding the body,attitude,pose,

On that bacis I am ruling out spiting and ratling. Puffing the body I concider as pose, so I will leave puff as corect answer.
Anyway people don't get to exited, we talking only about .5 point here.

I hope that nobody get upset with me, I had to rule something out.


----------



## southy (Apr 9, 2006)

im not too worried the final 4 or 5 get a shot at the winning question don't they??


----------



## Slateman (Apr 9, 2006)

3 best will get shot on last task for snake.


----------



## Slateman (Apr 13, 2006)

*I asked only for Main reason why hospital staff wait before they actually treat the bite from venomous snake *

*This main reason is: hospital staff wait before they treat a bite from a venomous snake with antivenom is to make sure an envenomation has occurred so that antivenom does not have to be given if there is no need and risk the possible side effects of serum sickness
*

Robbo
my answer to question 22 is
the main reason why hospital staff wait before they treat a bite from a venomous snake with antivenom is to make sure an envenomation has occurred so that antivenom does not have to be given if there is no need and risk the possible side effects of serum sickness

By JandC_Reptiles.
Hospital staff wait before treating venomous snake bites in order to see what symptons occur in the patient. This way they can determin what species may be responsible and give the appropriate anti-venom treatment.


junglemad
The reason that medical staff wait before they actually treat a venomous snakebite are many. Some bites may be what is called a dry bite where no venom was injected. Some bites may only be a scratch. Some bites may not be a hit from both fangs.Some snakes inject more venom than others, for example an old or sick snake may not inject as much venom as a vital younger specimen. Also this varies from species to species

The main reason I suppose is that patients may have an adverse reaction to snakebite treatment. This is why medical staff observe patients carefully before aggressive treatment. Some people may have an allergic reaction to antivenin, particularly treatments made from injecting a horse. People allergic to horse products may go into anaphylactic shock. This too is rare but not worth the risk on a bite that may not be serious. People who have been treated with antivenin in the past will more than likely be sensitive to horse products for life. Hospitals need to administer a skin test to establish those sensitive and indeed hyper sensitive to antivenin.

Snake bites need to be treated on an individual basis. Signs like pain, swelling and bleeding, along with more complicated reactions such as ecchymosis , necrosis , low blood pressure, and tingling of lips and tongue are symptoms that show the seriousness of a snakebite. Patients exhibiting these symptoms are treated promptly. 

Southy
they wait to make sure they don't treat a victim that had a dry bite as that can invenomate them, they also swob the area and do tests to make sure that the snake that bit them, that they get the correct antivenom from the correct snake to treat them 
*Points for this answer:*

Robbo 3
JandC_Reptiles 1
Junglemad 3
Southy 3



*score after 22th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 44
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 42.5
junglemad 49
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 33.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 1.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 49
2. JandC_Reptiles 44
3. southy 42.5
5. Robbo 33.5
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 23.
 Do snakes cast off they tails like lizards?

Please answer by Wednesday evening19.04.06 to email [email protected][/size]*

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## southy (Apr 13, 2006)

slatey, you have done a typo i think, i understand its just an error but i thought id bring it to your attension, this is what you had for last question

Leaders of comp so far: 

1. junglemad 46 
2. JandC_Reptiles 43 
3. southy 39.5 
5. Robbo 30.5 
4. staffsrule 23.5 

and this question

Leaders of comp so far: 

1. junglemad 49 
2. JandC_Reptiles 44 
3. southy 32.5 
5. Robbo 33.5 
4. staffsrule 23.5 

i lost 10 points


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## Slateman (Apr 14, 2006)

You are right mate, it is just typo. All fixed.


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## MrBredli (Apr 14, 2006)

junglemad said:


> get ready for a ten page answer for the next one





> junglemad
> The reason that medical staff wait before they actually treat a venomous snakebite are many. Some bites may be what is called a dry bite where no venom was injected. Some bites may only be a scratch. Some bites may not be a hit from both fangs.Some snakes inject more venom than others, for example an old or sick snake may not inject as much venom as a vital younger specimen. Also this varies from species to species
> 
> The main reason I suppose is that patients may have an adverse reaction to snakebite treatment. This is why medical staff observe patients carefully before aggressive treatment. Some people may have an allergic reaction to antivenin, particularly treatments made from injecting a horse. People allergic to horse products may go into anaphylactic shock. This too is rare but not worth the risk on a bite that may not be serious. People who have been treated with antivenin in the past will more than likely be sensitive to horse products for life. Hospitals need to administer a skin test to establish those sensitive and indeed hyper sensitive to antivenin.
> ...



What happened? :wink:


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## junglemad (Apr 14, 2006)

sorry mate..i will write a single word answer for the next one.


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## MrBredli (Apr 14, 2006)

Haha.. i'd rather see you give a ten-paged answer on this one!


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## Slateman (Apr 20, 2006)

There are no chages after question 23. Nobody have the answer right.
There is one aussie snake which cast his tail. It is freshwater snake. Keelback

for referance look at: http://lamington.nrsm.uq.edu.au/Documents/Rept/keelback.htm

*New question 24*
*Name 2 most widespread Australian snakes from Blacksnake family. *


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## junglemad (Apr 20, 2006)

re-mark please


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## Slateman (Apr 30, 2006)

* question 24
Name 2 most widespread Australian snakes from Blacksnake family.*

Answers:

JandC_Reptiles
The Red bellied black snake & the king brown snake AKA mulga

robbo 
the two most widespread australian members of the blacksnake family are the king brown (mulga snake) and the red-bellied blacksnake 

southy
the black snake family is known as the genus Pseudechis. so the most widespread is the mulga/king brown ( pseudechis australis), and second is the red-bellied black snake ( pseudechis porphriacus). 

Junglemad
The most widespread of the Australian blacksnake family are Pseudechis australis and Pseudechis porphyriacus - the Mulga or King Brown and the Red Belly Blacksnake. 

Robbo 3
JandC_Reptiles 3
Junglemad 3
Southy 3



*score after 24th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 47
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 45.5
junglemad 52
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 36.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 1.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 52
2. JandC_Reptiles 47
3. southy 45.5
5. Robbo 36.5
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 25.
 Why is Woma often found with scarring on the body?

Please answer by Wednesday evening03.05.06 to email [email protected][/size]*

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## Slateman (Apr 30, 2006)

We have only 5 questions to go and 3 best will have dual to win snake donated by Southern Cross Reptiles


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 30, 2006)

Hot sand burns them 
Pick hot sand lol :lol:


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## Slateman (May 4, 2006)

*Question 25
Why is Woma often found with scarring on the body?*
Answers:

Southy

There has been speculation that these snakes often subdue their prey by pressing it against the wall of a burrow when space will not allow it to constrict in the normal manner. most of the wild caught adults have extensive scarring possibly form prey retaliation. 


Robbo

my answer to question 25 is 
womas are often found with scarring on their body because of the way they capture their prey in narrow burrows . they try to suffocate it by squashing it against the burrow walls and the prey scratch's and bites the snake trying to get away causing wounds which heal and form scars 


By JandC_Reptiles

Womas catch prey in burrows where they push a loop of its body against the animal so it is crushed to death against the side of the burrow. They are scarred from retaliating rodents as this technique doesn�t kill prey as quickly as normal constriction would.

Antaresia Lady
Woma’s are often found with scarring which is thought to be from prey fighting back. It appears mostly in wild caught animals for obvious reasons. 

Junglemad 
The reason that wildcaught Woma are often found with scarring is that they may suffer from prey retaliation. This is the theory anyway and it makes sense. 

Robbo 3
JandC_Reptiles 3
Junglemad 2
Southy 3
Antaresia Lady2


*score after 25th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 50
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 48.5
junglemad 54
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 39.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 54
2. JandC_Reptiles 50
3. southy 48.5
5. Robbo 39.5
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 26.
 Why is Carpet python more efective to keep rat or mice in the house under controll than cat?

Please answer by Wednesday evening10.05.06 to email [email protected][/size]*

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## NoOne (May 4, 2006)

more effective than what slatey?


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## Slateman (May 4, 2006)

Sorry, than cat. I will fix that


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## Slateman (May 14, 2006)

*Right answer 26 is; 
A carpet python would be more effective in controlling rodents because a python can access more areas of the roof cavity and inside walls while a cat may not be able to access as many areas. A carpet python will eat every rodent in the nest*



By JandC_Reptiles

Pythons have a great sense of smell due to their forked tongue & jacobson organ so I assume they would track & find a mouse alot better than a cat ever could considering a cat would rely mostly on sight. 

Stalking ability I would also have to choose a python over a cat, a cat is a great stalker however a python is lower to the ground casting virtually no shadow to spook the rodent as oppossed to a feline that stands alot taller. They also don't have any feet so they do not make any noise by stomping like a cat may (a cat will also crawl to approach its prey at times) Pythons also breath alot less than cats which also enables them to approach prey in a stealthy manner. Pythons can also stalk mice/rats where cats cant EG: ontop of or underneath a wardrobe etc.

Camouflage MAY BE a possibility with a carpet python species, especially if the question is referring to Coastal carpets as the colours & markings may blend into the floor coverings of a home.

Carpet Pythons have heat sensing pits which would aid in making perfectly aimed strikes at its prey. Again the cat would rely on sight only.


IF THE STRIKE WAS UNLUCKY
A snake could follow the rodent due to it releasing chemicals from stressing/being scared and have another attempt at catching the prey item. A cat would lose sight of the rodent and the game would be over for it.


Southy

carpets are better than cats because they will kill faster( they dont play with the mice like cats do), they can reach areas the cat isn't able to get to due to its size eg a snake can get between the walls and in the roof through little holes, cats can only kill what they can get to.snakes kill more than one mouse at a time and i have seen it done where it contricts the one its bitten and contricts another at the same time. another reason why carpets are more effective is most snakes will eat and eat until there is nothing more to eat. 


Robbo
hi slateman 
my guess for question 26 is 
a carpet python is more effective to keep mice and rats under control because it only kills what it eats and dosnt kill anything just for fun like a cat will 


Junglemad
A carpet python would be more effective in controlling rodents because a python can access more areas of the roof cavity and inside walls while a cat may not be able to access as many areas. A carpet python will eat every rodent in the nest then return to an ambush position. It will do it quietly without ringing bells.

A carpet python can live in a roof cavity with no need of the running costs of a cat - from food to supplement the rodent intake to vet bills and kitty litter. 

I hate cats so i have to add that the python won't scratch your lounge or try to sleaze onto your lap when it feels like it. You won't know that the python is even there. It won't cough up furballs or crap in the garden. It won't bring the dead rodent to you like some absurd sporting trophy, it will dispose of it nicely without playing with its food.



Robbo 1
JandC_Reptiles 2
Junglemad 3
Southy 2



*score after 26th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 52
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 50.5
junglemad 57
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 41.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 57
2. JandC_Reptiles 52
3. southy 50.5
5. Robbo 41.5
4. staffsrule 23.5



New question 27.
 In the wild, you can see hatchlings from same clutch with completely different colouring. Sometimes some of them are intergrades and some of them not. What can be reason for this? 

Please answer by Wednesday evening17.05.06 to email [email protected][/size]*

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## Slateman (May 19, 2006)

b]Question 27[/b]
In the wild, you can see hatchlings from the same clutch with completely different colouring.Sometimes some of them are intergrades and some are not. What is the reason for this?
*Right answer 27 is; 

Southy
the reason is that many australian pythons overlap one another, eg you won't go to gosford area and just find diamonds, coastals are there aswell, childrens and macs overlap aswell. what happens is when it comes to breeding, they are in many ways apart of the same family and will happily mate with each other. thus giving us intergrades but with some looking more diamond, some more carpet and some mixed togther.
people wanting to keep colours that there snake has will breed it to pass those genes on, the growth of albino carpets and olives in austrlia over the years started with one albino. if in the wild an albino and a normal coloured snake mated. some come out like one parent and the others cross between both parents. 

robbo
hi slateman
my answer for question 27 is
i am guessing you are talking about carpet and diamond pythons , so my answer is some can be intergrades and some not because the female python can retain sperm from multiple partners to fertilize her eggs

junglemad
The reason for this is that the hatchlings share genetic material from both parents and indeed genetic history from the forebears of both parents. If for example one parent was a coastal carpet and one parent was a diamond python then the clutch would include snakes that appear carpet or diamond or a mixture of both. If one parent was coastal or diamond and the other was an intergrade then the resultant progeny would be mixtures even more complicated and so forth. If a grandfather was an intergrade perhaps his characteristics skipped a generation.
To further complicate things some female snakes have multiple partners, particularly diamond pythons. A gravid female may contain eggs fertilised by different fathers.




Robbo 3
Junglemad 3
Southy3



score after 27th round.
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 52
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 53.5
junglemad 60
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 44.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

Leaders of comp so far:

1. junglemad 60
2. southy 53.5
3. JandC_Reptiles 52
4. robbo 44.5
5. staffsrule 23.5



New question 28.
 Why we call Children python Children Python?

Please answer by Wednesday evening24.05.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## JandC_Reptiles (May 19, 2006)

Frig it I missed the last question


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## Slateman (May 29, 2006)

b]Question 28[/b]
Why we call Children python Children Python?
*Right answer 28 is; 

junglemad
John Gray named this python in honour of his former mentor and superviser John George Children. It was discovered by Gray in 1842.
Popular belief is that they recieved the name Children's Python because they are a widely kept pet due to their small size and ease of keeping.

By JandC_Reptiles
The first discovered species was named after the finder naturalist John Children 
(I think that was his name). The name is now incorrectly used to describe several species in this genera due to antaresia species being a small snake suitable for begginners & young children.

southy
The name does not come from a relationship to children, but in honor of J. G. Children, curator of the zoological collection at the British Museum in the 19th Century.

robbo
childrens are named after john george children who was the first person to describe them




Robbo 3
Junglemad 3
Southy3
JandC_Reptiles3


score after 28th round.
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 55
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 56.5
junglemad 63
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 47.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

Leaders of comp so far:

1. junglemad 63
2. southy 56.5
3. JandC_Reptiles 55
4. robbo 47.5
5. staffsrule 23.5



New question 29.
 Name the different ways snakes can travel .

Please answer by Wednesday evening07.06.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## Slateman (Jun 10, 2006)

b]Question 29[/b]
Name the different ways snakes can travel 
*

Robbo
snakes have four main ways of travel
lateral undulation 
rectilinear locomotion
concertina crawling
side-winding


Junglemad
Snakes can move in the following ways:

Horizontal Undulatory Progression
Rectilinear Progression
Concertina Progression
Sidewinding
Side-Pushing
Climbing
Burrowing
Swimming
Jumping
Flying ( more gliding than flying IMO)

Southy
crawl, slither, swim, burrow, climb, fly, sidewinding 

By JandC_Reptiles

Serpentine - moving muscles in waves, squiggling side to side

Sidewinding - moving belly first, the head and tail lift while the body moves sideways to make a forward movement

Rectilinear - moving the body up and down, lifting the body forward and then back down, like a caterpillar

Concertina - pushing the front end down and moving forward, over and over again, like a spring 

Slateman think that snakes can swim also


Robbo 2
Junglemad 3
Southy3
JandC_Reptiles2


score after 28th round.
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 57
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 59.5
junglemad 66
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 49.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

Leaders of comp so far:

1. junglemad 66
2. southy 59.5
3. JandC_Reptiles 57
4. robbo 49.5
5. staffsrule 23.5



Last question 30.
 One australian snake is able to separate pray body (pull the pray a part) to be able to eat it, if the pray is large. Name this Snake .

Please answer by Wednesday evening14.06.06 to email [email protected][/size]

Please don't post your answers here.*


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## Slateman (Jun 15, 2006)

b]Question 30[/b]
 One australian snake is able to separate pray body (pull the pray a part) to be able to eat it, if the pray is large. Name this Snake .

Robbo
my answer for question 30 is

white-bellied mangrove snake (fordonia leucobalia)



Junglemad
The White-Bellied Mangrove Snake ( Fordonia leucobalia ) is the only Australian snake to dismember its prey before it swallows it. It does this with crabs which it bites and envenomates and then loops around the crap and tears it apart. It prefers moulting crabs which are softer apparently


Robbo 3
Junglemad 3


*score after 30th round.*
steve6610 1
JandC_Reptiles 57
craig.a.c 1
OuZo 3
soulweaver 13
staffsrule 23 and half
Dicco 9 and half
danep 5
munkee 1
newtosnakes 2
jonno 1
southy 59.5
junglemad 69
westaussie 1
olivehydra 10
BUCK 1
Memphis_Tank 1
robbo 52.5 
Kahn_10 3
Antaresia Lady 3.5


This people are leading Southern Cross Reptile Competition on APS

*Leaders of comp so far:*

1. junglemad 69
2. southy 59.5
3. JandC_Reptiles 57
4. robbo 52.5
5. staffsrule 23.5

*
Our questions are finish. We have 3 finalists whoo will compeet in special task to win the snake from Southern reptiles.*

Last task for our finalists Junglemad, Southy and JandC_Reptiles.

*Please write caresheat on one of the species below. The caresheat should obtain as many informations as possible, and should not be subject to copyright confrontation. Articles you submit for this competition will remain property of APS Southern Cross Reptiles and author. We will publish them on our site and Your name as author will be maintain.*
*
Woma
any of Carpet python
Olive python
Brown tree snake*

I hope that you will be familiar at least with one of this species to do great job.

Answers should be answered to email [email protected][/size]*

We would like to have them by 5.07.2006 
They will be judged by Simon from Southern Cross, becaose my knowledge is not good enough and I asume that you guys will do great job.

Thank you to all contestants and congratulation to Robbo for getting so close.*


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## Slateman (Jun 16, 2006)

This e-mail below from Junglemad put smile on my face .
This is reason we run the competition in first place. There is not important whoo is the winer, but how much you gain by trying to find the answers.

From Junglemad:
ps. this competition initially frustrated the crap out of me but now win or lose i have learned a great deal about snakes since it started.
cheers mate


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## southy (Jul 5, 2006)

well since this competition is at a close, i would like to thank slatey for the time he has put in making up questions etc and like junglemad said, help learn more about our cold-blooded friends. thanks to everyone involved and good luck to junglemad and jandc reptiles, this had been a fun and painful at times experience


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