# Evolution works



## Chimera (May 15, 2008)

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/still_just_a_lizard.php

In 1971, scientists started an experiment. They took 5 male lizards and 5 female lizards of the species _Podarcis sicula_ from a tiny Adriatic island called Pod Kopiste, 0.09km2, and they placed them on an even tinier island, Pod Mrcaru, 0.03km2, which was also inhabited by another lizard species, _Podarcis melisellensis_. Then a war broke out, the Croatian War of Independence, which went on and on and meant the little islands were completely neglected for 36 years, and nature took its course. When scientists finally returned to the island and looked around, they discovered that something very interesting had happened.


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## Retic (May 15, 2008)

Interesting stuff, I thought evolution was just a crazy rumour


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## Kirby (May 15, 2008)

i wonder if this is purely adaption over evolution. did the original species never ever have the capability to section off for digestion, even tho they were ALWAYS omnivorous.. they seem to be simply adapting to the diet, and their body, skull etc. is changing due to dietary change. 

although the shorter legs etc. has me puddled. perhaps underuse.. they no longer need to chase down food, so they aren't acting fast. 

i'd say the first time an introduced species has done well..


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## Veredus (May 15, 2008)

boa said:


> Interesting stuff, I thought evolution was just a crazy rumour


It is, don 't you realise that this was all God's divine will. He needed Lizards with cecal valves for the apocalypse!

On a serious not though, very interesting article, its a shame that one of the lizard species became extinct on the island, I wonder if other populations exist. I personally cannot fathom any reason as to why certain people still strongly deny evolution when so much evidence to support it exists in the world around them. Evolution does not disprove the existence of a God, rather it damages the credibility of a book written a few thousand years ago which surely must be outdated by now with all the knowledge with have aqcuired....


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## Chimera (May 15, 2008)

Kirby said:


> i wonder if this is purely adaption over evolution. did the original species never ever have the capability to section off for digestion, even tho they were ALWAYS omnivorous..



No they didn't, the article stated that the cecal valves don't exist in the ancestral population and are an adaptation to a diet that has a higher percentage of vegetable matter (34-61% as opposed to 4-7%).

On your first question, I think adaptation can be considered changes in behaviour brought on by environment changes. This is evolution which extends adaptation to include morphological changes in the biology of the species.


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## Hsut77 (May 15, 2008)

Evolution pfffttt. I'm sure The Lord looked down upon them and said, 

'Give forth the little lizard a Cecal Calve, and shorten his running legs as he will now chow on the bounty of the islands trees and grasses' and he saw that it was done and that it was good.


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## anguskennedy (May 15, 2008)

Small adaptations such as these, continuously, over a long period of time, IS evolution. Eventually all those small changes add up to what has become a big change over time and the population is so different it can no longer interbreed with the population it originally came from. This is speciation.

What an awesome experiment!


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## Kirby (May 15, 2008)

Chimera said:


> On your first question, I think adaptation can be considered changes in behaviour brought on by environment changes. This is evolution which extends adaptation to include morphological changes in the biology of the species.




so you would say morphing an axolotl through lowered water is evolution, not adaption... 

i understand either way.


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## JasonL (May 15, 2008)

Kirby said:


> so you would say morphing an axolotl through lowered water is evolution, not adaption...
> 
> i understand either way.



Thats metamorphosis, adaption is part of the grass roots of evolution


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## moosenoose (May 15, 2008)

Hsut77 said:


> Evolution pfffttt. I'm sure The Lord looked down upon them and said,
> 
> 'Give forth the little lizard a Cecal Calve, and shorten his running legs as he will now chow on the bounty of the islands trees and grasses' and he saw that it was done and that it was good.



Exactly what I was thinking!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: It's like, have you noticed that most people who use hand-guns are slightly cross-eyed???


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## Hickson (May 15, 2008)

The legs and the skull changes I can appreciate, but I think 30 generations for something like a caecal valve to appear is an extremely short time, and lends weight to the "Hopeful Monster" theory.



Hix


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