# unknown lizard species



## billbrooks (Nov 4, 2011)

Can anyone help to identify this species?


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## 69blottfilms69 (Nov 4, 2011)

Hard to tell from a top view but a skink of some kind


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## ianinoz (Nov 4, 2011)

My first impression based on just the top of the skink is it's a common garden skink.
Garden Skink (Lampropholis delicata)

It's location and estimated length (S(nout)TV(ent) or STT (end of tail)) would help.

They are great little skinks to have about your garden.


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## HonestPirate (Nov 4, 2011)

Yeah I reckon it's your standard garden skink...we have millions of the little champs in our yard- I am guessing you are in SEQ ? They look almost identical to the critters we have around here... They are fun to watch - wrestling each other and sunbaking in the weirdest of places- wherever the sun touches and they feel safe.


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## Australis (Nov 4, 2011)

Ian :lol:

Eulamprus ... probably quoyii. "Eastern Water Skink.


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## notechistiger (Nov 4, 2011)

That is just gold.


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## billbrooks (Nov 4, 2011)

*Length and Location*



ianinoz said:


> My first impression based on just the top of the skink is it's a common garden skink.
> Garden Skink (Lampropholis delicata)
> 
> It's location and estimated length (S(nout)TV(ent) or STT (end of tail)) would help.
> ...



Hi, I would estimate about 15cm. The location was in the swampy boardwalked area, just south of Trener Reserve on the coastal path running south of Coogee beach.


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## Australis (Nov 4, 2011)

Its not a Garden skink.


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## billbrooks (Nov 4, 2011)

Based on the suggestion of Eulamprus quoyii above, I checked other photos of this species, and tend to agree. Thanks for your help guys - much appreciated


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## serpenttongue (Nov 4, 2011)

It's a water skink. God knows how that could have been mistaken for a garden skink.


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## snakeluvver (Nov 4, 2011)

Eastern Water Skink

Lizzy would be ashamed Ian


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## ianinoz (Nov 4, 2011)

OK , I didn't spot the spots on the side of the lizard in question at my first glance at the image - I had to copy and paste and enlarge the image to see them clearly on my laptop screen. A better view of it's side would have made easier to see - maybe I need a new set of reading/computer use glasses . as you get older you loose your razer sharp vision.  

Yep - it's an EWS.


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## Wally (Nov 4, 2011)

Nice to see a wild one in a natural setting.


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## ianinoz (Nov 4, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> Nice to see a wild one in a natural setting.



More often than not when bushwalking you'll hear them in the undergrown but wont see them.
Suburbian ones seem less shy. Probably used to seeing people around and just keep their distance of people.


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## HonestPirate (Nov 4, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> God knows how that could have been mistaken for a garden skink.



I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure God owns an iPhone too and would understand the concept of screen resolution


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 5, 2011)

I am not sure where the criticism comes from or why a person should feel they need to defend having mad an ID mistake. Looking at animals in real life in its given natural or regular surrounds and looking at a single aspect from an image frozen in time, with no points of reference, are NOT the same thing by a country mile. If you are already predisposed to seeing something in a picture which is in anyways similar, you mind is quite capable of altering you perception so that you see what you are expecting to see. It requires a good measure of practice and consciously being open-minded – like looking for distinguishing features and general characteristics before mentally going through the species checklist. 

Said without all the waffle – easily done.

Blue


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 5, 2011)

> If you are already predisposed to seeing something in a picture which is in anyways similar, you mind is quite capable of altering you perception so that you see what you are expecting to see



Is that why everything is getting ID'd as a keelback, they see gecko, they make keelback...


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## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm thinking its not a skink! I'm leading towards a frog of some sort!!!!


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 5, 2011)

I see you are still playing your game of belittling others. I trust you are aware of what they say about sarcasm – that it is the lowest form of wit. I wonder if you understand why?

The point I was making, that you have either failed to comprehend or have arrogantly chosen to ignore, is that negative comments directed at people rather than the content of their posts are not acceptable. Users do not have a right to make up reasons why someone else got an ID incorrect. Nor do they have a right to belittle others in any way for getting it incorrect. It is an ID thread. Passing judgment on other users has no place in it, or any other thread. I have seen some horrendous errors made in respect of identifications but if the poster happens to have lots of “mates” or is relatively unknown, it just gets a simple correction and is glossed over. And that is how it should be!

If you have an issue with what I have stated, then I am more than happy to discuss it civily and rationally, with logic and intellect. I would very much appreciate hearing your point of view given your apparent desire to “throw stones” at my earlier statement. I trust I am not being too presumptuous in assuming there is a point of view, and that your motivation was not merely a thoughtless act of random rudeness designed to amuse an audience that holds similar generic values.

Blue


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 5, 2011)

Not at all trying to belittle anyone, whenever I ID I simply give the ID regardless of what has been said before, I was simply wondering how so many keelbacks seemed to end up. 

Actually I would sort of appreciate if APS both had an ID section and some specific rules to go with this forum, rules like: 
-People in ID threads are not to make misleading comments, calling an animal something you know it is not, or trying to ID something even though you have very little idea of what it is leading to misleading information will result in such and such. 

One day someone is going to put up a Tai, the first reply is going to be "Keelback they are harmless" and it has the potential to go down hill rapidly.


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## snakeluvver (Nov 5, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I see you are still playing your game of belittling others. I trust you are aware of what they say about sarcasm – that it is the lowest form of wit. I wonder if you understand why?


I dont think the post above you was directed to anyone, I think it was just a general lighthearted joke.
Or was your post directed to GeckPhotographer?


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## HonestPirate (Nov 5, 2011)

popcorn time !


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 6, 2011)

Firstly, I will admit to being overly reactive here. I had not long before read the “Chased by a Brown Snake” thread and was appalled and saddened by the carry-on, from both sides. I thought we may have made some progress in this area with the awareness-raising we did. Unfortunately, viewing that and numerous other threads over the past few weeks, it would appear that it has not lasted. 

If you put the apparent “gentle ribbing” of a couple of comments from this thread into the context of the recent personal exchanges between the same individuals in the thread mentioned, then it would seem their intent was somewhat more sinister. I would be happier if I am wrong on that one. Irrespective, there was derogatory personal comment made, even though it was dressed up as a general “How could you get it wrong?” My initial response answered that question as well as addressing the inappropriate comment. 

_*GeckoPhotographer*_, your comment was clever and in another context I would have been laughing with you. However, in direct reference to a serious statement about a wide-spread problem, humour takes on a different effect. _*Snakeluvver*_, it is not the comment or who it was intended for that I take issue with – it is the timing. The foregoing comment applies here equally. 

Blue

PS. I find the issue sufficiently off-putting to be reluctant to utilise APS. No doubt that will please those who are here to argue rather than find out answers.

Hardly worth opening the popcorn for...


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## ianinoz (Nov 6, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Firstly, I will admit to being overly reactive here. I had not long before read the “Chased by a Brown Snake” thread and was appalled and saddened by the carry-on, from both sides. I thought we may have made some progress in this area with the awareness-raising we did. Unfortunately, viewing that and numerous other threads over the past few weeks, it would appear that it has not lasted.
> 
> If you put the apparent “gentle ribbing” of a couple of comments from this thread into the context of the recent personal exchanges between the same individuals in the thread mentioned, then it would seem their intent was somewhat more sinister. I would be happier if I am wrong on that one. Irrespective, there was derogatory personal comment made, even though it was dressed up as a general “How could you get it wrong?” My initial response answered that question as well as addressing the inappropriate comment.
> 
> ...



You are correct. 

I believe the mods call it flooding, it's a form of trolling. Some of these people have been put on notice by the admins I believe.

Seems some here get their amusement by piling it on and trying to pointscore and by rediculing others. And when they are challenged they then try to make out it was all in fun. (Not for the person on the recieving end it isn't especially if it is constant / harassment/stalking).

And you right, that thread turned into a circus and the behaviour displayed therein was terrible. How that thread avoided being "moved" / closed is a mystery.

That is all I have to add to this tangent.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 7, 2011)

I suggest you check with the moderators what term they would use rather than speaking on their behalf.

As I stated earlier, there was clearly fault on both sides. There are ways to address such occurrences but “giving as good as you get” is not one of them. I shy away from using names wherever possible but I am about to make an exception. Far too many posters in that thread were derogatory of another person, what they said or hat they did. That is what is unacceptable. And contrary to what some have maintained, it is neither warranted nor necessary. You have only to look at Longqi’s posts. He had the bulk of posters as adversaries. He did not resort to be derogatory or rude. There was obviously plenty of emotion behind his beliefs and corresponding statements but they were consistently rational rather than emotive and he was not put off by reference to him being too anthropomorphic (a comment I consider had to be based on other threads because it was not really warranted by what he was saying). He simply countered it with logic – re-phrasing and providing a better example. I apologise for not seeking his permission first even though I am comfortable that he would mind.

Please, take the following point on board. It is not up to the moderators to cleanup or close such threads. It is up to APS users. When someone is clearly out of line, then there are options available. You tell explain to the poster why what they have done is not appropriate. You can stop posting in that thread – hopefully with a brief note as to why. If two or three people did that to a given poster (all it takes is an “agree with X” after the first one), then it would get the message across loud and clear. 

The option that people seem most loathe to use is to report the comment to the mods. This I don’t understand. It is protecting something that is yours and you are entitled to. Those that adhere to the site rules should have the pleasure of using APS without seeing themselves, their friends or acquaintances, newbies or even total strangers personally attacked, abused or belittled. 

I know of several people who have left APS permanently because of it. I know of number of newbies who are loathe to post for the same reason. There members who were very regular but are now occasional visitors for this reason. There is a sticky thread that opens up with the OP saying, before I start, please don’t flame. And he repeats that request again at the end of hi opening post. Yet he has thousands of posts to his name and many years of membership behind him. I came across some almost identical examples in past threads I was browsing. I find this is a very sad commentary.

I had hoped to contribute something positive in this area but it would seem too many are entrenched in their old ways. It no doubt displeases that percentage of users who are here primarily for their entertainment – usually to argue and throw stones and certainly not for answers. I accept my failure and logical dictates that it is time to throw away the soapbox and leave you to it.

Blue


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## ianinoz (Nov 7, 2011)

^^ Agree.

If someone is being nasty or derrogatory or baiting or flaming you or trying to derail your thread by trolling in it. There is nothing to be gained by responding to them, that just plays their game, report them and let the moderators deal with them.
If they are repeat offenders - add them to your ignore list,

And to the posters who engage in this kind of cyberbullying and trolling, grow up, if you aren't interested in someone's threads, don't bother posting in them. If you disagree with what are saying, you don't need to be derogatory or nasty to them when saying you disagree.

I was in that thread and abandoned it when it became a troll/flaming fest. I come here for fun and to talk about reptiles and to see other people resident wild and pet reptiles. There was no call for how several posters behaved in that thread and it was inexcuseable. (I even had one person persue me with nasty PMs !! which I promptly reported, his behaviour was entirely out of order).

Being a long term member or someone with a high post count does not give you a licence to be abusive or harass other members (or n00bs). Perhaps some enforced absences from this board would help adjust their behaviour since they add nothing worthwhile to it and has the potential to turn off new members and discourage them from joining and participating in these boards.

The report button is there to be used when needed, the moderators will be blissfully unaware of thread derailments and flaming and harassment if no one tells them it's happening.


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## crocdoc (Nov 7, 2011)

To what thread is all of this in reference?

edit: no worries, found it.


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## saximus (Nov 7, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> To what thread is all of this in reference?


I would assume it's the one with the Brown Snake video


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

Chased by a brown i would think
It got closed down because i bunch of "keyboard hero's" thought it would be a good time to bring out their expertise and give tony a good ol spray about a video a young fella posted of tony doing a photoshoot with a brown
Of course these people were speaking nothing but the truth and a bunch of tony's mates including myself got up and gave the ****e stirrers a good talking too



ianinoz said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I believe the mods call it flooding, it's a form of trolling. Some of these people have been put on notice by the admins I believe.
> 
> ...



Ian, i believe you were one to give tony a bad wrap with your disgusting comments, he is not even present on this forum yet you talked crap to talk down his reputation
Did you get a notice from the Mods ?


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## CHEWY (Nov 7, 2011)

I understand that tiny screens and bad photos make it hard to ID some animals, but I did have a chuckle at Ian's first attempt, because looking at his avatar (unless it is freshly changed) they have some striking similarities.

No offense mate,

JD


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## ianinoz (Nov 7, 2011)

Specks said:


> Did you get a notice from the Mods ?



No.

I was ticked off by the mods for *colloquial* terms I used elsewhere which was fair enough - wont use colloquial terms here again.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 9, 2011)

CHEWY said:


> I understand that tiny screens and bad photos make it hard to ID some animals, but I did have a chuckle at Ian's first attempt, because looking at his avatar (unless it is freshly changed) they have some striking similarities.
> 
> No offense mate,
> 
> JD


Here are the two photos to which you are referring...
View attachment 225470
View attachment 225471

Despite the fact that I know they are photos of the same species, I for one fail to see the “striking similarities” between them. They are completely different aspects and you would be lucky if there was 5% visual overlap between the two images. Even the toning of the same colours comes up differently. 

You use this as an excuse to publically laugh at someone’s misidentification. And you then claim to intend no offense. This clear indicates that you are aware that what you have done is likely to cause offense. 

Surely if you genuinely meant no offense, then you would not have made the offensive comment in the first place. 

This is exactly one of the issues I addressed in this thread. It is comments like this and those who make them that will ensure that personal derision remains alive and well in APS. 

Blue


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## CHEWY (Nov 9, 2011)

As I read this from my phone, I can't make out the stripes on the dorsal view without zooming in. An easy mistake which I mentioned in my post about small screens. 
I mentioned striking similarities as they are the same species, something Ian would have easily known if he had viewed the photo on a large screen in the first place. Not his problem, people are allowed to view this site on phones. 
It was the irony that I found humourous, not the mistake. 
Sorry about that sheriff, won't happen again.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 9, 2011)

Thankyou for the reply and explanation _*CHEWY*_. 

Perhaps it would have been better to have PM’d Ian rather than post on the net? Without the additional information/comments you have provided above, the post comes across as making fun of another person’s shortcomings. I had taken exactly that example, amongst others, to task in earlier posts, explaining why they are not appropriate posts to make.

“Won’t happen again.” You have got to love that phrase. I know you will keep your word. You cannot do anything else but. There is no statement of “what” won’t happen.

“sheriff”... an enforcer of laws. Experience tells me very clearly if you were genuinely contrite, you would not see me ‘an enforcer’. You would view it as help to correct something. Your use of the term stems from an underlying belief you are being corrected and coerced to change again your will. This is because you believe you have done nothing wrong and should be entitled to do such things. All I can say is if you haven't got it by now...

It might surprise you to know that I am not interested in controlling what anyone on APS does. Every individual is responsible for that. The message I have endeavoured to get across is simple... remove the personal attacks from posts. It requires a little bit of thought, some judgement and sometimes, some self-restraint. The payoff is an APS were all users can engage in vigorous discussions or arguments or general silly buggers etc, without fear of being personally attacked or derided.

APS has the potential tobe to be a guaranteed pleasant place to spend some time. Unfortunately, I have had to accept the sad reality that there are far too many selfish individuals entrenched in APS that will not let that happen.

Blue


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## HonestPirate (Nov 9, 2011)

*Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. *[Confucius]


Humour is subjective. Live by the sword.....


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 9, 2011)

“He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.”

In this particular instance, I don't recall mentioning humour as an issue.. Feel free to point out where you believe I did so. On the subject of, it is of no concern if the mistake had him rolling in the aisle. I am fully cognisant of the background and why it would fill some with glee. Again, this is not a concern. The issue is publically posting something that is negative and personal. I am tiring of that broken record...

I stated earlier, that sometimes self-restraint is required. You may be well justified in taking another individual down a peg or two. But that does not vindicate doing so by personal ridicule in a post. We all like to see those that we consider a pain get their comeuppance. It can be highly amusing – but that does not justify breaking of the site rules. 

If the comment were not at someone else’s expense there would not be a problem. Is that put simply enough to absorb?


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## Khagan (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't get the big fuss, wrong identifications have always had fun poked at, does no one remember "Mate, that's definitely a keelback."?

Personally i think if you decide you know enough to go around identifying things you should expect criticism if it is wrong, especially when you supposedly spend so much time with said species... I personally don't go around trying to identify things i know i don't know enough about, i'd expect other people to use the same train of thought if they are so sensitive of criticism.


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## HonestPirate (Nov 9, 2011)

You are right. 

EDITED POST TO AVOID WINNING !!!!!!


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## hnn17 (Nov 9, 2011)

blue: how do you attack the argument and not the person ? the way i see it people stand behind their words and opinions and by attacking their arguments you are attacking them. where is the line separating the two ?


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## Sel (Nov 9, 2011)

3 pages for a water skink! 

Take some..


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 9, 2011)

_*Sel*_, I give you credit for more intelligence and sensibility.

_*Hnn17*_. This could be the root of your problems, if you cannot distinguish between arguing between a point of view put forward and slagging off the person who said it.

*Honest Pirate *– I’m am undecided whether that comments is born out of ignorance or arrogance or an over-active imagination. You yourself said that humour is subjective, I would have thought the rational and logical consequence of that was that before one posts a “humorous” comment that one exercises their sensibilities and judgement to ensure that it cannot be seen as anything but humorous... clearly not the case here.

_*Khagan*_, if your ignore the context then I would have to agree that it is all a storm in a tea cup. However, I clear framed my comments in a context – that being the bun fight of a preceding thread, where people were after blood and clearly, certain posters on both sides of the fence both sides were at fault. If you bother to read my posts, you would clearly see what the fuss is all about. When you have the same posters who a day or two before were being vindictive, I do not see it as a bit of good natured ribbing. I singled out this specific issue. We then have some post on the pretext of indicating what the previous thread was about but who then goes on to continue the argument. Immediately following that we have the comment that sparked this discussion – exactly what I had been talking about 2 and 4 posts previously. 

Tell me, did you not bother to read that or did you just choose to ignore it so you could put up your post. “Don’t see what the fuss is about”. You would have to be incredibly obtuse not to. 

Friendly ribbing for making a blue and comments about Keelbacks have no relevance to what we are talking about here. I will add, that the keelback comment was humourous the first couple of times I read it but it is used inappropriately as often as not and has cause more than one OP to question what is going on. Anyone post that comment. You don’t need to know squat. So where is the cleverness in that?

Looks like you have a few questions to answer...

Blue


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## Khagan (Nov 10, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> _*Khagan*_, if your ignore the context then I would have to agree that it is all a storm in a tea cup. However, I clear framed my comments in a context – that being the bun fight of a preceding thread, where people were after blood and clearly, certain posters on both sides of the fence both sides were at fault. If you bother to read my posts, you would clearly see what the fuss is all about. When you have the same posters who a day or two before were being vindictive, I do not see it as a bit of good natured ribbing. I singled out this specific issue. We then have some post on the pretext of indicating what the previous thread was about but who then goes on to continue the argument. Immediately following that we have the comment that sparked this discussion – exactly what I had been talking about 2 and 4 posts previously.
> 
> Tell me, did you not bother to read that or did you just choose to ignore it so you could put up your post. “Don’t see what the fuss is about”. You would have to be incredibly obtuse not to.
> 
> ...



I'm well aware of the previous threads and happenings in them i also have read some of them, but i still don't see it, because he acts in a manner that paints a big giant target on him. He has rubbed people the wrong way since day one, and instead of changing his attitude he has gotten worse so i don't blame the wave of 'attacks' following him everywhere.

I also don't see why you need to be some righteous crusader coming to the defense of a "poor innocent victim" when he gives as good as he gets, he baits people into arguments just as much as he receives. We have mods for a reason, if people are out of line the mods deal with them like for example.. Hey look at that Ianinoz is suspended? Jeez, must be a wrongful conviction there, surely he is innocent!


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 10, 2011)

We get to the real reasons at last.

You presume too much. You have absolutely NO idea of my personal views on the man or his actions or how I feel about his suspension, because I have never disclosed any of these publically. Nor have said anything that directly or indirectly implied my attitude. 

I challenge you to show me anywhere that I have “come to his defense”. I have said there is no justification for personal abuse in posts. That includes towards him, by him, towards you, by you, etc. I am not quite sure how one manages to misconstrue this as being supportive of the very behaviours I am opposed to. 

Let me spell it out for you. If any individual has been personally offensive to others in any of his/her posts, then I condemn that behaviour. Has Ianinoz?.. Can I hand in my crusader’s badge now?

Because it is such a highly emotive issue I already addressed the concerns that you raise here. I have a lot of empathy for the way you and other experienced herpers feel. I have discussed the matter openly and at length with one of the most respected members of the forum, who contacted me several days ago to express his concerns. This is what prompted my clarification of the issue plus a few other statements – like I know it’s not the best example to be using, but the priniciple is still sound. I will say that the other member and I have a lot in common in the way we view what has been happening. He also has a consistent and appropriate response to such problems. Bear in mind this is a small excerpt of a much more extensive discussion. If and when someone posts something that is either incorrect or based on observations that are clearly not applicable, he will say: “Well actually, what happens is...”. He is extremely polite and does state straight out: “ You’re wrong. ...”. 

To avoid these issues that culminate in blood letting, there are several things people should be doing. Deal with each incident as it occurs, then and there, appropriately. Do not give any recognition or credence to statements that you disagree with but cannot refute with facts. Just completely ignore him or her, otherwise you will be drawn into an argument based on opinions, which neither party can win. If there is an inappropriate exchange, report it – the moderator’s will make a judgment and delete it if they agree. 

Enough said. Do you think perhaps we can put this one to bed now?

Blue


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## saximus (Nov 10, 2011)

Looking at his profile page, his avatar and many options are gone. From my understanding this generally means banned rather than suspended. I agree people attack each other a little too much around here (me included) but I've never seen someone come and piss off just about everyone on the entire forum the way he did. I think this may just be a special case and I don't see the point in arguing between ourselves over it any more. If Mr Ian was in fact a troll, he certainly did his job well. His impact has outlasted his banning - a feat many trolls would only dream about.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 11, 2011)

I was hoping someone else might do this. If he were banned that is what would show against his name, for he length of time it remains. if you are banned the account is deleted. The adjustments to his profile simply mean he has packed his bags.

Seeing as how he obviously won’t be returning, I shall give you my personal opinion on these matters. I don’t believe he set out to do anything but to establish himself in a group. The man clearly has issues. What he needs, without being to explicit, is a good therapists who can bring him into the real world through appropriate social interactions. For the most part, I suspect it would be a lonely existence to be where he is at most of the time. Irrespective, I hope he is able to learn something positive from his APS experiences and not make the same mistakes elsewhere. Without some assistance in the meantime, however, I suspect that history is most likely to repeat itself.

Blue


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## Bloomster (Nov 11, 2011)

Please, all listen to yourselves. 
ID thread, not a debate, talk about it elsewhere


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