# Yearling & Hatchling Albino Dragons



## Gonzo (Feb 16, 2010)

Here is a pic showing a yearling and 3 hatchling albino Pogona Mitchelli. 
They are a small dragon breed (the size of a pygmy or dwarf). I've seen them referred to as Pilbara Dwarf bearded dragons, but their common name on the NSW species list is North West bearded Dragon.

They are now listed as class 1 on the 2010 list.

There is also a pic of the parents, the normal looking hatchlings from the same clutch, and a normal yearling male.

As you can see, the normals develop quite nice colours. I think they are the best looking, of the Dwarf/Pygmy size dragons.


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## ShaunMorelia (Feb 16, 2010)

very nice


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## Scleropages (Feb 16, 2010)

Cool , hope they survive! , selling any?


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## Renagade (Feb 16, 2010)

My dragons are pushing obese compared to yours.


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## ravan (Feb 16, 2010)

wow, very nice


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## Sturdy (Feb 16, 2010)

How do you go raising these guys? 
the feedback from other people is they are diffcult to keep alive is this true?

Cheers
Sturdy


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## greeny1 (Feb 16, 2010)

WOW, i want one soooo bad. very, very, very nice gonzo. hope they all survive.


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## James..94 (Feb 16, 2010)

Congrats Gonzo. Great looking dragons you have there
Hope the albino's go well.


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## Gonzo (Feb 16, 2010)

Scleropages - yes, if someone is prepared to buy one, knowing that they will have to assist feed for its entire life. See below.

Sturdy - The only difficulty I have encountered while raising the yearling, is that it requires assist feeding. It cant see well enough to feed itself. The hatchlings are the same.
Assist feeding hatchlings is a pain in the A. It gets easier (but is still difficult) as they get bigger, but these things are Dwarf/Pygmy sized dragons, and the babies start out tiny.
I have started the three hatchlings on hills ad, using the smear technique. It's time consuming, but they are eating it.
It's really frustrating at times. You know they want to eat, because they gulp it down when you get it in their mouth, but they don't always cooperate. They wriggle around and move their head all over the place, but once the food is in their mouth they eat it. Sometimes, when the yearling knows that there is food in front of him, he will lunge in all directions. I hold the cricket directly in front of his mouth, but he is all over the place. I hope that one day he will just open his mouth and keep his head still so I can put the cricket straight in.
I'm still hoping that I will get one that will feed on its own, but it seems that Albino = Blind, when it comes to Bearded Dragons.

Gonzo


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## bundysnake (Feb 16, 2010)

hmmm seems like a PITA.


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## bundysnake (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for the info Gonzo.


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## Renagade (Feb 16, 2010)

wow that does sound like a pain in the a. and also points out why my two who spend all day every day begging for food... and winge if they don't get meal worm pupae look like they are nearing obese in comparrison. Like fat kids at Maccas.


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## HOM3L3SS (Feb 16, 2010)

y cant they see?


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## Bricked (Feb 16, 2010)

lol in the first picture the mini one in the top right looks like a pinkie mouse =)


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## Gonzo (Feb 16, 2010)

HOM3L3SS - this is from wikipedia.

Eye conditions common in albinism may include:

* Nystagmus, irregular rapid movement of the eyes back and forth, or in circular motion.
* Strabismus, eye misalignment ("crossed eyes" or "lazy eye").
* Refractive errors such as myopia or hyperopia and especially astigmatism are more likely[14]
* Photophobia, hypersensitivity to bright light and glare.
* Macular hypoplasia, underdevelopment of the fovea, the center of the retina
* Optic nerve hypoplasia, underdevelopment of the optic nerve
* Abnormal decussation (crossing) of the optic nerve fibers in the optic chiasm[15]
* Amblyopia, decrease in acuity of one or both eyes due to poor transmission to the brain, often due to other conditions such as strabismus.


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## HOM3L3SS (Feb 16, 2010)

kool thanx


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## CodeRed (Feb 16, 2010)

Have you tried feeding in dim light? It may be they just cant see well in bright or normal lighting conditions.


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## dottyback (Feb 16, 2010)

amazing! thats great dedication that you are feeding them! well done.


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## nagini-baby (Feb 16, 2010)

and any of those eye conditions you also can find in people with abinoism


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## spide279 (Feb 16, 2010)

Howdy, i have started using the Hills a d a few days ago myself. He seems to like it .Have attached a pic of an albino which did not survive from the previous clutch he was 11 days old .cheers


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## Namn8r (Feb 17, 2010)

Very nice lizards Gonzo, hope they survive and get stronger. I would suggest trying dimmer light also as someone else has already suggested.

HTH

Nam


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## Gonzo (Feb 17, 2010)

CodeRed & Namn8r - they have been offered food in low light, and it didn't make any difference.
Spide879 - what breed of dragon are they?


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## Jay84 (Feb 17, 2010)

Gonzo they are beautiful lizards, the normals are also lovely colours. 

Such a shame that the little albinos are affected by poor sight. It must be draining having all those babies to handfeed. Good on you for having the dedication and patience. Hopefully, in subsequent clutches you may get some without this problem and start establishing them.


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## spide279 (Feb 17, 2010)

The parents are centrals suppose to be red phase.More like orange we think.The first clutch had 3 albinos and 7 normal .1 albino survived for 11 days ( earlier pic) .Second clutch 6 albinos and 9 normal .I have one albino surviving for approx 2 weeks at the moment.( this one seems to be the strongest of the albinos so far).when he wants he can be as quick as the normal hatchies and dosent have his head down all the time and slow as previous ones ! All normal hatchies are doing very well. cheers


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## Gonzo (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm posting any replies that I make to question that I receive by email or pm here.
This is the first.

How much?
I'm going to wait a few days and let the market set the price. I don't know their value either, and I don't want to sell them for $??? and then find out that the person that I sold them to re-sells for double, triple or more. 

Long term survival?
Albinism in snakes doesn't seem to cause any problems, and the snakes are no harder to keep than the non albino variety. With bearded dragons, it's a totally different situation. Whoever buys an albino bearded dragon, is buying something with a major defect. It will require constant assist feeding. It may have a shortened lifespan. It may be incapable of breeding. Whoever buys one of these is going to be taking a risk.
What are my experiences with long term survival? From what I have heard, my yearling is the longest living albino bearded dragon. Albino bearded dragons have been bred in Australia for years . So Where are the adults? The fact that there aren't any, supports the view that they are difficult to keep alive, and could possibly have have shortened lifespans regardless of how well you attempt to look after them. Or perhaps people are keeping quiet about their successes?
This yearling that I have is not the only one that I've bred. Some died while I was learning how to take care of them. Others, I gave up on, because I thought that the assist feeding was too invasive, and that it wasn't a pleasant experience for the lizard to be continually put through.
The yearling had an albino sibling for about the first three months, but at that point I decided to focus just on the stronger or more developed of the two. I don't have all the answers and I'm not making any promises, or giving any guarantees with these lizards. They could die tonight or live for 10 years.

I can now feed the 3 albinos hills ad using a small syringe in 5 min. much easier, cleaner and quicker than the smear technique that i was using initially.


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## richardsc (Feb 26, 2010)

i dont get the albino trend,people go on about cruelty with other stuff,yet breeding animals that light hurts there eyes ect and they generally are difficult to raise and need to be assist fed for there entire lives,give me a normal apearing one any day,no offence,its just a shame they dont thrive i guess


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## euphorion (Feb 27, 2010)

very interesting, im keen to see how they turn out.


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## jimtaylor (Feb 27, 2010)

Hey Gonzo do you still put a uv light on these guys in there tank most of the stories ive read the albinos tend to hide from it cause its too bright if so what type do you use or do you hit them with the vitamin d suppliment


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## Gonzo (Feb 27, 2010)

The yearling was raised without any artificial light. It has floor heating and is taken out into sunlight as often as possible.
gonzo


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## Renagade (Feb 28, 2010)

were you trying to breed albinos? that is a question for both gonzo and spide 279 I can only guess by the % of albionos hatched out of a clutch that it was your intended goal. were both the parents hets? I don't understand how with such a shab survival rate that breeding was so possible. has anyone bred with an albino dragon in aust?
ren


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## Splitmore (Feb 28, 2010)

Renagade said:


> were you trying to breed albinos? that is a question for both gonzo and spide 279 I can only guess by the % of albionos hatched out of a clutch that it was your intended goal. were both the parents hets? I don't understand how with such a shab survival rate that breeding was so possible. has anyone bred with an albino dragon in aust?
> ren



I've hatched dozens of albino viticeps and mitchelli and never had a single one last more than a few months. That one of Gonzo's would probably be the longest known lived albino beardie. There is obviously something well and truly missing in the albino dragons that prevents them thriving. They aren't blind, mine would react to sudden movements but they just refuse to eat.
I'd be very cautious about paying anything for an albino, they have been hatching in this country for years but no one has managed to get them established


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## antaresia_boy (Feb 28, 2010)

Isn't it cruel deliberatly breeding them, knowing they are going to have eye problems and unlikely to survive? seems like human greed to me. Pretty animals at the expense fo their happiness and health. Correct me if I am wrong because this thread is all i've read of albino beardies.


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## Gonzo (Feb 28, 2010)

I agree. I've said the same thing in my earlier post.



Gonzo said:


> Long term survival?
> Albinism in snakes doesn't seem to cause any problems, and the snakes are no harder to keep than the non albino variety. With bearded dragons, it's a totally different situation. *Whoever buys an albino bearded dragon, is buying something with a major defect. It will require constant assist feeding. It may have a shortened lifespan. It may be incapable of breeding. Whoever buys one of these is going to be taking a risk.*
> What are my experiences with long term survival? From what I have heard, my yearling is the longest living albino bearded dragon. *Albino bearded dragons have been bred in Australia for years . So Where are the adults? The fact that there aren't any, supports the view that they are difficult to keep alive, and could possibly have have shortened lifespans regardless of how well you attempt to look after them.* Or perhaps people are keeping quiet about their successes?



The only reason anyone should buy one of these, is if they like things that are unusual. Raising the Yearling was difficult, but I'm glad that I put in the effort, and that I have him. I've learned from the experience. At the same time anyone who is considering buying one needs to understand that the thing that makes these animals unusual (albinism) also causes health problems. 

I agree that they aren't totally blind. In some posts I've written that they can't see well enough to eat, other times when I'm lazy or in a rush, I write that they are blind. Maybe they can see something the size of your hand or the shadow it makes. But when it comes to hunting something the size of crickets, their eyes aren't up to the task, so they are functionally blind.
gonzo


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## richardsc (Feb 28, 2010)

i made a comment on the issue of it being possably cruel breeding for the albino trait when it appears so far that they struggle to survive,thats one thing i dont like about albino lines,as with alot of folk its the albino they are after not the animal,and its the limelight and potential profits to be made,not the animals best interest,by no means am i having a crack at folk who breed them,maybe one day the eye issues will be able to be worked out,other albino lizard species dont seem to suffer it,but i guess skinks have the benifit of smell and taste to find food,where dragons rely alot on visual cues,are the albino water dragons suffering the vision issues the beardys are

hopefully one day they eye/feeding issues will be sorted,and with out future breeding trails,its hard to fix

good luck to all working with them


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## Renagade (Feb 28, 2010)

The culinary extravagance known as _foie gras_, the “fatty liver” of male ducks and geese, is created by grossly manipulating an animal’s body to provide a fleeting gustatory pleasure to the palate. The _foie gras_ industry uses an invasive technique to force-feed ducks and geese until they have become so obese their livers are engorged with fat. The diseased livers of the slaughtered birds are considered a delicacy in many high-end restaurants, which have attracted protests from outraged activists who regard _foie gras_ as a frivolous appetizer inseparable from the egregious abuse of animals. 







I fail to see how this differs. You are creating something that is visually interesting as oppose to tastes interesting. I can't believe you haven't had animal rights activist slam you. Is this not the exact reason that it is 'illegal' to knowingly breed animals with defects?


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## Renagade (Mar 2, 2010)

Wow, I have to say I'm a tad underwhelmed at all the pro animal rights members rushing in with support here.


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## spide279 (Mar 3, 2010)

We bought this pair of dragons just over a year ago.Albinoism didnt even come into the picture.My son wanted a pair of red centrals. Breeding season came and they didnt know what to do and we were told by a friend they were too immature,so we thought next year we will try.They did end up having three clutches ,the last is due in a week or so.We were very surprised when the albinos were hatching alongside the others.This is hardly a breeding program trying to pump out albinos.Just a fluke and while they are some in the clutches we will try and get them to survive . My son was getting a little upset when any albino didnt survive ,but he is getting used to it. .All the rest of the clutches are as healthy as and growing quite rapidly and if anything should happen to one of those im sure he would be just as upset. We paid just under $400 for the pair and am sure if the previous owners knew what the were capable of producing they would not of been up for sale, or at that price anyway.We have had snakes for a few years and these are our first dragons.cheers


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## Reptile_Boy (Mar 3, 2010)

i was talking to a breeder and he said something that they are only aloud to eat sweet potato only ????? i didnt think it was true but idk


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## Renagade (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for responding spide279, I understand your scenario. It's a shame that with feeding and husbandry requirements the efforts a seemingly futile. Is it a slow always a slow decline or do some deaths take you by surprise? how much hope do you have for any surviving to maturity? what was the % of the clutch that was albino? was there any/many well developed hatchies that never made it out of the egg? cheers.
ren


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## pythonsrule888 (Mar 3, 2010)

now what i don't get is how a forum about albino beardies changes to a forum about ducks????


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## elle_carlisle (Mar 4, 2010)

lol, methinks PETA had a hand in it Pythonsrule888
no offence to PETA people, but they can get kinda insane.
we breed mice and rats knowing that we're going to gas them and feed their corpses to our pets renagade, have you protested that on any threads lately?

anyway, as for the dragons - they look awesome.
now we just need UWS to get a grant to find out how to make them healthy =P


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## Renagade (Mar 5, 2010)

elle_carlisle said:


> lol, methinks PETA had a hand in it Pythonsrule888
> no offence to PETA people, but they can get kinda insane.
> we breed mice and rats knowing that we're going to gas them and feed their corpses to our pets renagade, have you protested that on any threads lately?
> 
> ...


 
No, I didn't realise that the mice you breed were sickly and force feed and purely groomed like that for human pleasure.


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## Bez84 (Mar 5, 2010)

Lol how did we go from albino dragons to obese force fed birds?
Yes i breed and raise wood roaches, lull them into a false sense of security and then scoop them up and drop them into the gauntlet where i watch them flee for there lives as they watch there fellow family members torn apart one by one by the dragon referred to in hushed whispers as meeka the cute!


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