# kids and Nth Korea



## jacorin (Apr 5, 2013)

how many ppl have teenage kids?? how many have spoken to or heard their kids talking about Nth korea and its nuclear war talk???

i ask these questions because i own a local take away shop and just had 4 boys from the local high school sitting around talking about it.1) they are very worried and concerned there will be a war 2) who our allies are? they thought CHINA was an ally of ours 3) will there be conscription and at what age? 4) where was Korea??

i spoke to them using information to the best of my knowledge about the subject. needless to say,we as parents need to talk to our kids about this,if i can have 4 boys talking about it in my shop,how many others are talking about it with their friends and not having the knowledge to tell themselves the true facts(as much as they can).

ask yourselves question you would like answered and i can bet they are the same questions your kids want to ask. find out the information and sit your kids down and talk to them,with the best information you can gather

thx for reading

Shane


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## borntobnude (Apr 5, 2013)

where is the problem?:lol:


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## Virides (Apr 5, 2013)

As far as I understand it, NK is basically being starved through UN sanctions as a means restrict their weapons production (primarily). Of what they claim to have already, they are at this point targeting their taunts towards the US and not necessarily the US' allies.

Of what capability they claim to have, they could only strike SK, Japan or Guam (being countries with US military bases). The US have placed anti-missile weapons in the region as a precautionary measure.

At this point they are taking it seriously, trying to not accidently escalate the situation, but if anything occurs, nuclear wise, the US would take action possible with nuclear action. Given that however, NK surely knows it isn't upto the task of taking on the nuclear power of the US - so most likely this is all bravado from NK, but with such a young leader and the international community not having any real experience with how he responds, it is very uncertain what will happen in the coming days/weeks/months.

Experts are also saying that despite their reactivation of a Plutonium reactor, it will take atleast a year to get the system running to produce weapons grade material, and then several years to attain enough material for a sizable collection of bombs. Saying this, they intend to diffuse the situation so they have time for that.

This is as much as I understand it, given recent news sources.

Basically it is all talk at this point with some provocative action. But keep in mind this is a younger perhaps more aggressive version of the late Kim Jung-Il.

I myself hope it doesn't eventuate to anything because in August and December of this year I have to go to Japan for my wedding... when I say I want it to go off with a bang...i don't mean that kind of bang lol


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## jacorin (Apr 5, 2013)

yeh thx m8..... hopefully we can get the info to our kids and try to calm their fears over this by talking to them,thats what i was hoping for anyway


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## sharky (Apr 5, 2013)

All the kids at school are talking about it....seems like a hot topic for some reason :?


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## sharky (Apr 5, 2013)

...except we aren't as dumb as the kids described above :lol: We actually know what is going on...that's a fancy college for you


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## borntobnude (Apr 5, 2013)

I have given my kids a little chat and explained that he is basicly trying to big note himself , as is a family trait . Dad was lead singer in the worlds best rock band , played he best round of golf ever , and also bought the most Whiskey or Brandy of any purchaser in the world 

Maybe he is trying to get more followers on twtter or likes on facebook that daddy . If he really is going to do anything he isnt looking at the repercussions 

just my thoughts not wanting to offend or upset anyone sorry in advance :facepalm:


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## bohdi13 (Apr 5, 2013)

know a lot of people from my school and haven't heard anything about it what so ever, only heard about it on the news.


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## montysrainbow (Apr 5, 2013)

my boys have heard bits and bobs from the news and we have explained the best we can. Its a bit confronting when your 9 yr old says straight out 'mum is that korean guy gonna nuke us all and take over the world?' :shock: i was like no....and then got my husband to explain the rest.


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## Skeptic (Apr 5, 2013)

NK is most certainly not being starved by the UN sanctions. The latest round of sanctions were only agreed upon after China insisted on revisions removing requirements for economic sanctions beyond those targeting luxury goods. Not too many of the general population have luxury goods. NK is still receiving vast amounts of aid (estimates are 80% of their consumer goods and 45% of their food) from China which admittedly gets funnelled straight into the military but this leaves the aid given by the world food aid for the general population. This is a rather clever way of getting around foreign aid policies of other countries and still maintaining their own 'military first' policy as China calls their aid 'economic development' and 'humanitarian aid' but enforces neither.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 6, 2013)

Well I was talking to my dad about it after reading about Kim Jong and his BFF NBA dude in the newspaper. I have little concern. I mean yeah there's always the little thing in the back of your mind especially being a teen and its a serious topic. But overall, I see it as a threat display. He's like a bloomin BHP or Texty! He'd be a complete idiot to start a war. He's got few allies and they don't want a war. And come on. He's up against America. He can't hardly even reach America and if he does, they have missile things to counteract his missiles. My only real concern is for Sth Korea, Japan etc.

Maybe I'm being optimistic about the situation but at least I've still got the sense to know that yes, it could turn ugly.

he's just a fat ugly show off with a really sexy haircut.


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## Tempest404 (Apr 6, 2013)

we've got nothing to worry about, if we're really that concerned just park the USS Missouri on their doorstep and open up. NK hasn't got anything to deal with what the western nations have technology wise. even if they were to send off a nuke it would be shot down and the launch facility destroyed, we don't even need to nuke them back. the conventional weapons the US have on hand are more than enough to quell any **** they try to stir up


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## treeofgreen (Apr 6, 2013)

NK produce their own weapons. They can reach the states with their missiles too.

Talk is very cheap tho


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## jacorin (Apr 6, 2013)

and lets remember...China is their ally,not ours..... and they have the capability to hit Aust if they want....... i also think its a case of "me top dog of country now,got to show me better than dad" and this haircut cost me 3 bowls of rice...verry expensive


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## littlemay (Apr 6, 2013)

treeofgreen said:


> NK produce their own weapons. *They can reach the states with their missiles* too.



You are kidding, surely?


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## montysrainbow (Apr 6, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> he's just a fat ugly show off with a really sexy haircut.



lol my 7yr old thought he was the singer of that song Gangnam style :lol:


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## SteveNT (Apr 6, 2013)

There's a 50% chance their missile would go straight up and down and they'd nuke themselves.


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## justin91 (Apr 6, 2013)

jacorin said:


> and lets remember...China is their ally,not ours..... and they have the capability to hit Aust if they want....... i also think its a case of "me top dog of country now,got to show me better than dad" and this haircut cost me 3 bowls of rice...verry expensive



China is allied with America isn't it? Me and a few mates from work always chat who we think the next world war will between and the only possible answer is China and America. 

The only cool thing about North Korea is how there soldiers march. I saw it on the news the other day and HOLY FLYING BANANAS it was awesome haha. Reminds of the Lion King when the hyenas were Marching for Scar. (Haven't seen it for like 10 years but still a awesome movie when I was a kid).


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## fourexes (Apr 6, 2013)

I think we can all blame the media for the scare mongering and hype once again, then when this fizzles out and something else happens to grab peoples attention it will all be forgotten. 

This is what the majority of todays society has become, lemmings fed by social media who believe anything that someone on the TV says. What happened to people being proactive? Doing research for themselves & forming their own opinions? They may not be right but that's what makes a diverse society. 

The US positioned a destroyer off the SK coast to act as a localised ballistic shield against North Korean missiles, if they do push the button, they will be the only significant thing destroyed. They simply don't have the technology, the best they _could_ have is short range 'dirty bombs' which would be enough to stage a full forced nuclear attack from the west, leaving a crater where NK once was. The main threat is Chinas loyalties and in my opinion, they have advanced themselves in the world order so far that sticking with NK would wind their evolutionary clock back about 60 years. NK has already carried out three nuclear tests against Chinas wishes, also re-opening the reactor was another defiant act. They simply aren't making any friends. They only ties left are funding and they are under much speculation.

This is probably the best and most accurate quote I've heard from the media so far: 


> Gillard said she would be personally asking Beijing to put pressure on North Korea, though it’s hard to imagine the dead-PM-walking having any influence on the world superpower except in trade matters.



She is our biggest threat at the moment. She needs a leash, a very short one.


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## nintendont (Apr 6, 2013)

justin91 said:


> Me and a few mates from work always chat who we think the next world war will between and the only possible answer is China and America.


I always thought it would be Israel versus (most of) the rest of the middle east. Then hopefully Kurdistan would put their hand up to help Israel (not that Israel would probably need it, being tight with the US and all) in the hope of becoming an independant state. I want to see Kurdistan involved because from the little I know, the Kurds dont discriminate between man and woman like other Islamic countries and are a really forward-thinking type of non-extremist people that deserve a country to call their own.


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 6, 2013)

littlemay said:


> You are kidding, surely?



North Korea does posses KN-08 inter-continental ballistic missiles, which are more than capable if functional of hitting the American mainland. For all their stupidity, North Korea are still not foolish enough to target the America's. The US has demonstrated their ability to defend against a long range missile attack, however these missile defense systems are restricted to US interests. North Korea's one bargaining chip is that not all of the US allies or interests are protected by a missile defense system. This is why the international community is treating this threat very seriously and the US and its allies are moving military resources into place. Having said that, the North Korean military is obviously aware if its shortcomings in military might, which makes them all the more dangerous. It is likely in the advent of any military aggression, they would target a soft target, including non military targets. 

In spite of the above, the rhetoric from the North Korean's is likely postering so that the UN give concessions and lift some of the sanctions to broker a peace deal. 

My thoughts.

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## Skeptic (Apr 6, 2013)

fourexes said:


> I think we can all blame the media for the scare mongering and hype once again, then when this fizzles out and something else happens to grab peoples attention it will all be forgotten.
> 
> This is what the majority of todays society has become, lemmings fed by social media who believe anything that someone on the TV says. What happened to people being proactive? Doing research for themselves & forming their own opinions? They may not be right but that's what makes a diverse society.
> 
> ...




The only media that is obviously scare mongering is the state run North Korean media. As far as our own media is concerned, the real and open threat of a nuclear war can't really be over sensationalised. As for this fizzling out, Kim Jong-Un can't afford for that to happen. He will need to fire something to avoid looking stupid and a possible regime change. The best case scenario for this is for NK to fire a missile into the sea over Japan. Worst case scenario is doing precisely what he's threatened. I still doubt that this would end in a nuclear response from the US. They have the capability to utterly destroy NK with conventional weapons.


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 6, 2013)

NK refuses to be bullied by America and there ability to retaliate with nuclear weapons is probably the only thing that has kept them safe from American invasion in more recent times.


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## Skeptic (Apr 6, 2013)

Elapidae1 said:


> NK refuses to be bullied by America and there ability to retaliate with nuclear weapons is probably the only thing that has kept them safe from American invasion in more recent times.



The US isn't bullying them, in fact they have provided Billions of dollars in aid to north Korea. The US was simply carrying out their annual military exercises with their allies South Korea as they have every right to do. North Korea have spent the past six decades bullying the south and have always gotten away with it, e.g the sinking of a South Korean ship in 2011 killing 40 odd people on board with no retaliation from the south.
Also, it's not their nukes that have kept them safe, it's the fact that China are their allies.


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## Crazycow232 (Apr 6, 2013)

Do you work ata frozen yogurt place...? Me and my friends where talking about it and there was 4 of us!!


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## Elapidae1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> The US isn't bullying them, in fact they have provided Billions of dollars in aid to north Korea. The US was simply carrying out their annual military exercises with their allies South Korea as they have every right to do. North Korea have spent the past six decades bullying the south and have always gotten away with it, e.g the sinking of a South Korean ship in 2011 killing 40 odd people on board with no retaliation from the south.
> Also, it's not their nukes that have kept them safe, it's the fact that China are their allies.




Hmmm I thought you were a Skeptic.

A different perspective.
ZCommunications | North Korea and the United States: Will the Real Aggressor Please Stand Down? by Kevin Zeese | ZNet Article


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 6, 2013)

We have discussed this as a family but my kids are in their 20's. i amsuprised that every schoolchild is not aware. I would consider it important enough to discuss in a classroom because schooling is just about learning facts and figures - it is should be about preparing kids for the real world outside of school. It does not get any more 'real' than this.

It is easy say that it is all posturing. But that is based on him having a rational mind. The US are taking it seriously and you would have to put that down to assessing the individual's capacity to follow through on his threats. Being a military dictator, despite the team of advisors he would have, the decision to 'push the button' is his alone and could happen against all the best advice given him. I would not too dismissive of the reality of this threat.

As for China, it may have idealogical ties with North Korea but when push comes to shove, I believe they will go by the wayside in deference to maintaining its economic relationships with the western world, which underpin their current economic prosperity.

The last thing the US wants is a nuclear engagment. They know full well the ramifications of it and the need to avoid it at all costs. If the worst happens, then the conflict will be fought with conventional weapons. The US will seek to take out all of NK's missile launch facilities and then see where NK wants to go from there.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Blue


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## champagne (Apr 6, 2013)

China owns over 2 trillion dollars worth of us bonds.... If the us has to go war against NK, the us economy will go further into debt meaning chain can buy more bonds at a lower price. Therefor china owns the us without going to war. NK is just a puppet in china's games. Also it is fact that NK has a missile that can reach us soil but it doesn't have to hit the us if the launch it into the outer atmosphere the emp pulse will shut the us down, how will they fight back then...... Do some searching before stating facts that aren't true.


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## champagne (Apr 6, 2013)

And it's about time someone puts the USA in it place..... They don't own the world as much as they like to think otherwise.


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 6, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> Well I was talking to my dad about it after reading about Kim Jong and his BFF NBA dude in the newspaper. I have little concern. I mean yeah there's always the little thing in the back of your mind especially being a teen and its a serious topic. But overall, I see it as a threat display. He's like a bloomin BHP or Texty! He'd be a complete idiot to start a war. He's got few allies and they don't want a war. And come on. He's up against America. He can't hardly even reach America and if he does, they have missile things to counteract his missiles. My only real concern is for Sth Korea, Japan etc.
> 
> Maybe I'm being optimistic about the situation but at least I've still got the sense to know that yes, it could turn ugly.
> 
> he's just a fat ugly show off with a really sexy haircut.



The US couldn't stop 9/11, do you really think NK could not successfully perform a covert missile strike?


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## Skeptic (Apr 6, 2013)

Elapidae1 said:


> Hmmm I thought you were a Skeptic.
> 
> A different perspective.
> ZCommunications | North Korea and the United States: Will the Real Aggressor Please Stand Down? by Kevin Zeese | ZNet Article



A left of left perspective. The article opens by saying that the US nuclear program is more dangerous than that of the North Koreans. I don't think any rational person can agree with this. The US has had nukes for the past 70 years and has refrained from using them in every single war they've been in since WW2. The north Koreans are threatening to use them in retaliation to military exercises. There's a slight difference. And Bluetongue, as far as china is concerned, I agree with you but it goes even deeper than political and economical affiliations with the west. A war between the Korea's would send a flood of hundreds of thousands of refugees into China and the destruction of the north would almost definitely result in a unified Korea that was allied to the US. China most certainly doesn't want that.


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## Dutchy88 (Apr 6, 2013)

If defence has tough me anything as a few ppl would know on this site no one is really going to know wats going on something this serious is all gunna be pretty under raps as far as the actual truth and whats really happening the media will tell whatever sounds good and scary


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## champagne (Apr 6, 2013)

Dutchy88 said:


> If defence has tough me anything as a few ppl would know on this site no one is really going to know wats going on something this serious is all gunna be pretty under raps as far as the actual truth


Just like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq....


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 6, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> And it's about time someone puts the USA in it place..... They don't own the world as much as they like to think otherwise.


You may not like the US for whatever reasons but to express the quoted sentiments indicates the most appalling of attitudes that one can only classify as war mongering and completely bereft of consideration of the death and injury caused to innocents. I really do struggle to find the most miniscule justification for someone articulating the sentiments you have put forward given the gravity of the situation and its very real capacity to escalate and involve many other nations. 

As for you emf scenario, a few quotes from the available literature…

“In written testimony delivered to the United States Senate in 2005, an EMP Commission staff member reported:
The EMP Commission sponsored a worldwide survey of foreign scientific and military literature to evaluate the knowledge, and possibly the intentions, of foreign states with respect to electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack. The survey found that the physics of EMP phenomenon and the military potential of EMP attack are widely understood in the international community, as reflected in official and unofficial writings and statements. The survey of open sources over the past decade finds that knowledge about EMP and EMP attack is evidenced in at least Britain, France, Germany, Israel, Egypt, Taiwan, Sweden, Cuba, India, Pakistan, Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Iran, North Korea, China and Russia.
. . .”

“Many foreign analysts–particularly in Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia–view the United States as a potential aggressor that would be willing to use its entire panoply of weapons, including nuclear weapons, in a first strike. They perceive the United States as having contingency plans to make a nuclear EMP attack, and as being willing to execute those plans under a broad range of circumstances.
Russian and Chinese military scientists in open source writings describe the basic principles of nuclear weapons designed specifically to generate an enhanced-EMP effect, that they term "Super-EMP" weapons. "Super-EMP" weapons, according to these foreign open source writings, can destroy even the best protected U.S. military and civilian electronic systems.”

“It has long been known that there are many ways to protect against nuclear EMP (or to quickly begin repairs where protection is not practical); but the United States EMP Commission determined that such protections are almost completely absent in the civilian infrastructure of the United States, and that even large sectors of the United States military services were no longer protected against EMP to the level that they were during the Cold War. The public statements of the physicists and engineers working in the EMP field tend to emphasize the importance of making electronic equipment and electrical components resistant to EMP — and of keeping adequate spare parts on hand, and in the proper location, to enable prompt repairs to be made.”

You might also like to have a read of:
“Report of the Commission to Assess the
Threat to the United States from 
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack

Critical National Infrastructures

April 2008” …available on the net.

The US have military bases stationed around the world for a reason. They want to be able to neutralize any attack on the US before it gets to US soil. They want the capacity to take retaliatory action well before things get anywhere near their country. Should NK launch a missile in the direction of the US, then the probability is that the US will intercept it some considerable distance before it reaches its target. 

If you would like me to address your financial argument in a similar vein, please let me know. 

Blue


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 6, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> The US couldn't stop 9/11, do you really think NK could not successfully perform a covert missile strike?


There is a world of difference between terrorist attacks and military attacks. Commandeering commercial airliners versus firing off missiles are just not on the same page. I don’t believe there are any comparisons to be drawn here.

Blue


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 6, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> There is a world of difference between terrorist attacks and military attacks. Commandeering commercial airliners versus firing off missiles are just not on the same page. I don’t believe there are any comparisons to be drawn here.
> 
> Blue



So are you saying the NK couldn't smuggle operatives and/or WMD's onto US soil in the same way Al-Qaeda did (with the people not the WMD's)?

The US borders are full of massive loopholes, early warning systems aren't going to do a damn thing when a WMD is driven into a major city in the back of a family SVU.


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## jacorin (Apr 7, 2013)

jeez...... all i wanted was for ppl to look at information and talk to their kids abouts whats happening,not start this fight....... mods close this thread please


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## =bECS= (Apr 7, 2013)

When the media hype up something like this, the ones who are awake look beyond it to see what they are hiding or covering up and diverting our attention from


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## =bECS= (Apr 7, 2013)

The current war in Syria with interests from Turkey, Israel, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia for example...... something going on there that is not simply about a struggle against a dictator, control of gas lines I think...... Look at what happened in Egypt.
NWO are the ones to be watching, not North Korea IMO


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## dintony (Apr 7, 2013)

I thought this was a fantastic read,... the whole lot!! no fights?? I actually prefer the 'ignorance is bliss' approach my self though


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## borntobnude (Apr 7, 2013)




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## champagne (Apr 7, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> You may not like the US for whatever reasons but to express the quoted sentiments indicates the most appalling of attitudes that one can only classify as war mongering and completely bereft of consideration of the death and injury caused to innocents. I really do struggle to find the most miniscule justification for someone articulating the sentiments you have put forward given the gravity of the situation and its very real capacity to escalate and involve many other nations.
> Blue



when did I say anything about going to war???? I said put in its place so clam down...... As for not liking USA the fact that any Australian does is a joke. how many Australian have died in the Iraq war? A war that was started because of weapons of mass destruction, weapons that didn't exist.... But not one talks about that anymore just ''love America they saved us all''


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## champagne (Apr 7, 2013)

As for the EMP attack America is very venerable and it would take time to repair which would give NK an advantage if they were wanting to go to war.... will this happen? not unless gun hoe America does something stupid and kim jong il thinks that he will lose NK, in which case what would he have to lose....


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## Dutchy88 (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> Just like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq....


Exactly, given that North Koreas weapons capability is properly a bit more than Iraqs but y becoz the media says so.


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## champagne (Apr 7, 2013)

Dutchy88 said:


> Exactly, given that North Koreas weapons capability is properly a bit more than Iraqs but y becoz the media says so.



Judging by your statement you haven't looked into the matters apart from reports on the local news, I suggest if you are interested in the matter do some more research. Iraq had no weapon capability..... and north Korea defiantly has nuclear weapons and missiles to launch them.


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 7, 2013)

Since when do weapons of mass destruction only include nuclear arsenal? Iraq had a chemical arsenal, and had used it on it's own people. While the second war with Iraq did not uncover any stockpiles, history had shown they did infact posses them. What happened to the equipment and manufacturing technology is very much a million dollar question. The deposition of the Iraqi dictator was not simply an American decision, it certainly was the result of Saudi influence. Involvement in the Middle East to bring stability to the region has far greater repercussions than WMD. 

As for it being a joke that any Australian likes the USA, how soon do you forget. The freedom that exists in this country is the direct result of the contribution of the lives of hundreds of thousands American soldiers. Stability in the whole pacific region following the Second World War can be directly contributed to the ANZUS treaty that was signed in 1951. Australia has an obligation to support it's greatest ally and protector and it would be abhorent to shirk our obligations. I would counter that Australia's close ties to the USA is not only nesessary to Australia's long term sovereignty, but has the general support of the Australian people. 

For all the reported shortcomings that the media critics like to profess to the world a definite state of communist anarchy would exist in the world today without the influence of the ideological Americans. Freedom is something to many of us take for granted.

Regards 

Wing_Nut


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## thomasssss (Apr 7, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Since when do weapons of mass destruction only include nuclear arsenal? Iraq had a chemical arsenal, and had used it on it's own people. While the second war with Iraq did not uncover any stockpiles, history had shown they did infact posses them. What happened to the equipment and manufacturing technology is very much a million dollar question. The deposition of the Iraqi dictator was not simply an American decision, it certainly was the result of Saudi influence. Involvement in the Middle East to bring stability to the region has far greater repercussions than WMD.
> 
> As for it being a joke that any Australian likes the USA, how soon do you forget. The freedom that exists in this country is the direct result of the contribution of the lives of hundreds of thousands American soldiers. Stability in the whole pacific region following the Second World War can be directly contributed to the ANZUS treaty that was signed in 1951. Australia has an obligation to support it's greatest ally and protector and it would be abhorent to shirk our obligations. I would counter that Australia's close ties to the USA is not only nesessary to Australia's long term sovereignty, but has the general support of the Australian people.
> 
> ...


wells said wingnut , especially the part regarding Australia's alliance with America


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> As for the EMP attack America is very venerable and it would take time to repair which would give NK an advantage if they were wanting to go to war.... will this happen? not unless gun hoe America does something stupid and kim jong il thinks that he will lose NK, in which case what would he have to lose....



An EMP on US mainland would in no way hinder its response to a threat from
NK. It is a known fact that NK does not posses sufficient nuclear capability to significantly effect the whole of the American military defense structure. An EMP attack of the US mainland would be no REAL affect to it's capacity to respond to NK. 

Likely the only thing that could be gained from a EMP attack on US soil would be an end to social media hype 

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## champagne (Apr 7, 2013)

While the second war with Iraq did not uncover any stockpiles, history had shown they did in fact posses them. What happened to the equipment and manufacturing technology is very much a million dollar question. They did not have chemical weapons which was the lie that the USA sold to the world to try to justify the war. Germany had chemical weapons in the past, so it would be ok for the USA to go to war with them??? As for ''Involvement in the Middle East to bring stability to the region has far greater repercussions than WMD.'' you mean to stability of USA oil supply right? So its ok to kill thousands to make sure you can still feed your country? so its ok what north Korea is doing then...


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## champagne (Apr 7, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> An EMP on US mainland would in no way hinder its response to a threat from
> NK. It is a known fact that NK does not posses sufficient nuclear capability to significantly effect the whole of the American military defense structure. An EMP attack of the US mainland would be no REAL affect to it's capacity to respond to NK.
> 
> Likely the only thing that could be gained from a EMP attack on US soil would be an end to social media hype
> ...


the social media hype that runs their food delivery network??? do some research you are making yourself look very....


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## Dutchy88 (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> Judging by your statement you haven't looked into the matters apart from reports on the local news, I suggest if you are interested in the matter do some more research. Iraq had no weapon capability..... and north Korea defiantly has nuclear weapons and missiles to launch them.


Of course they do but to wat extent is unknown


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> the social media hype that runs their food delivery network??? do some research you are making yourself look very....



Could you please explain how the food delivery network of the general population would effect a possible military response. All military bases have alternative communication arrangements that can be used in the event a primary communication function is removed. As a example there is an American communication base on the Australian mainland that is used in this exact circumstance. These installations are not localised even to the point that an aircraft carrier has the capacity to act as a FOB and would be sufficient to command a swift and appropriate response to any military threat to the US. It is known fact that NK does not have the capacity to target even a small percentage of the US assets, and this is not even taking into consideration it's allies. In the event of this type of attack, the repair you speak about are likely to take place well after a military response from the US is over. 

Perhaps if a look at the over all distribution of the US military assets was taken you would see that there is certainly an isolation of it's assets in terms of operational practicality and NK simply does not have the resources to disable even a portion of these. 

Furthermore, a first response from the US is certainly not coming from the US mainland and is beyond the reach on any of NK's military hardware. It is likely that NK is not even aware of there presence and these unit are under no threat of EMP or conventional nuclear attack. 

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> While the second war with Iraq did not uncover any stockpiles, history had shown they did in fact posses them. What happened to the equipment and manufacturing technology is very much a million dollar question. They did not have chemical weapons which was the lie that the USA sold to the world to try to justify the war. Germany had chemical weapons in the past, so it would be ok for the USA to go to war with them??? As for ''Involvement in the Middle East to bring stability to the region has far greater repercussions than WMD.'' you mean to stability of USA oil supply right? So its ok to kill thousands to make sure you can still feed your country? so its ok what north Korea is doing then...



The Iraqi government may or may not have possessed WMD at the commencement of the second war, however there were many other reasons to justify the war, WMD's were one reason that the media isolated. The fact that the dictator of Iraq authorised a assassination attempt of the president of America, which was thwarted in it's latter stages, showed a prepensity to use aggression against a country allied with the US, has used chemical weapons previously are justification enough for the second war. Not to mention the horrific humanitarian atrocities which ultimately led to the dictators death. 

Germany, has not proliferated or used chemical weapons since the end of the Second World War and has abided by the conditions of the treaty signed to end the war. The comparison is rediculous to make and reeks of intentional scare mongering that mass media implements. 

As stated previously the stability and on going stabilising effect of the US on the world as a whole has been a benefit to the freedom we all have today. Iraq made an attempt to destabilise the US by it's invasion of Kuwait, a sovereign country that requested the assistance of the US. The second war in Iraq was to prevent this threat from further destabilising the region. 

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## Stevo2 (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> when did I say anything about going to war???? I said put in its place so clam down...... As for not liking USA the fact that any Australian does is a joke. how many Australian have died in the Iraq war? A war that was started because of weapons of mass destruction, weapons that didn't exist.... But not one talks about that anymore just ''love America they saved us all''



No Australian soldiers died in Iraq from enemy action. Two died in accidents, one from a vehicle accident and the other from an accidental discharge of his weapon. What's your point???? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Bananapeel (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> when did I say anything about going to war???? I said put in its place so clam down...... As for not liking USA the fact that any Australian does is a joke. how many Australian have died in the Iraq war? A war that was started because of weapons of mass destruction, weapons that didn't exist.... But not one talks about that anymore just ''love America they saved us all''



This is an extremely ignorant comment to make. America have done some fantastic thing whilst in alliance with Australia. What kind of generalisation is it to say the fact that any australian likes the US is a joke? That's ridiculous.


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## J-A-X (Apr 7, 2013)

Keep it civil or the thread gets closed !


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## Cougar2007 (Apr 7, 2013)

ff to. Tt


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## jacorin (Apr 7, 2013)

well that IS WHAT i asked for earlier JAX


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## J-A-X (Apr 7, 2013)

Unless it gets nasty there is no need to close it. This ADULT discussion gives more info for parents to talk to their children about. But if it deteriorates into name calling I will close it


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 7, 2013)

Thankyou *JAX*.
*jacorin*, you asked a simple question about whether or not you have discussed it with your kids and the next thing you have a full blown discussion on global military and economic interactions. Somebody opened Pandora’s box… Whilst is it not what you were expecting, it not inappropriate for members to suggest likely scenarios and to give reasons for same, which includes looking at the previous military engagements of the current protagonists. It is a worthwhile exercise to go through because realities of the past are often over dramatised or simply left out completely in painting a picture of the entities involved in this potential conflict. 

Blue


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 7, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> And it's about time someone puts the USA in it place.....


You have indicated that I have misinterpreted your meaning here. Can you please explain what you had in mind by “put in their place”, so there is no further misconception?

Blue


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## Snowballlz (Apr 9, 2013)

My cousin the other day showed me some info on the Korea's nuke crisis and baisicly all NK have done is done a press release saying that if any military action is taken against them they would use all force necessary including nuclear to defend themselves and the media has spun it so all of a sudden they have threatens the world with nuclear strikes.


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## treeofgreen (Apr 9, 2013)

=bECS= said:


> The current war in Syria with interests from Turkey, Israel, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia for example...... something going on there that is not simply about a struggle against a dictator, control of gas lines I think...... Look at what happened in Egypt.
> NWO are the ones to be watching, not North Korea IMO


+1

All of these comments and the NWO is only mentioned once. What a sad sad state the sheeple are in hey =bECS=? haha

Sort of like the war on Libya... 
"we must kill this evil tyrant!!"
"ok fellow rebels (USA sponsored) we have killed the evil leader, the first thing i think we should do is create a privately owned federal reserve right?" 
"that job is done! who else needs our country take over skills?" 
"I hear Syria, Iran, North Korea and Cuba still need our help! they dont have our superawesome, controlled, country destroying banking system!"

Sit back and argue over what NK can or cant do... it doesnt really matter when the world is being raped by the "good guys" in front of your faces.


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## Stuart (Apr 9, 2013)

When or if something happens, it would be cause for concern. Until then I'll let the pretend soldiers in politics make the calls. 

Jacorin, best advice I can offer to pass onto your youngsters mate is just make sure they have all the facts and that they understand it. As they used to say, "Hope for the best, plan for the worst"


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## jacorin (Apr 9, 2013)

thx cap,have done that already, certainly wasnt my intention of all this ^^^^^^^ other crap carried on


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 10, 2013)

treeofgreen said:


> ….Sit back and argue over what NK can or cant do... it doesnt really matter when the world is being raped by the "good guys" in front of your faces.


You seem keen to defend an anti-US attitude. I think we are all aware that the Kuwait involvement, for example, was strongly motivated to protect US oil supplies from that country. I don’t see that as in anyway unacceptable given the circumstances. Imagine you had a mate that supplied you with quality reptiles at a value-for-money price and another seller muscled in and tried to take over his business and do who knows what with the prices. If it were within your capabilities to do something about it, I am sure you would.

The US may well have realised that they were too lenient the first time around and should have removed Saddam Hussein permanently. He continued to be a threat to neighbours and stability as well as organising terrorist attacks. Remember that we are talking here about someone that had his own family members executed if he thought they were a negative influence to his dictatorship. So it does not take a lot of neurones to work out what happened to Joe Citizen that was remotely critical of his regime, its methods or its decisions. The changes in Iraq have not been smooth but no-one could sustain an argument that the country is worse off.

There is no question that the US looks after its own interests. So what? Doesn’t every country to the best of their capabilities? The US has clearly realised it has to work in cooperation with other nations of the world to achieve its aims, be they military or economic. The resultant benefits to each country involved are clear for all to see.

Blue


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## Skeptic (Apr 10, 2013)

It should probably be pointed out that this whole conversation would be impossible in North Korea. In fact it would carry a death penalty, most likely a public execution. There is NO freedom of speech in North Korea, any criticism of the regime is a political crime and the best you could hope for would be a long term stay in a re-education camp. There is also no freedom of religion. Any unauthorized religious activity is a political crime. There is no freedom of the press. ALL television and radio sets are distributed by the state and are only capable of receiving media that is produced by the state. Attempting to alter a tv or radio set to receive foreign media is... you guessed it, a political crime. There is no freedom of movement. You can't even move around the country let alone leave it. Only top political figures can own a car and even then the petrol is doled out by the state as the country is constantly in short supply of ALL resources. The 1990's famine which was directly caused by the policies of the regime cost 1 million lives. NK is the ONLY country to suffer a famine since industrialisation. It's true that the fish rots from the head first. 

This is from the Office of The United Nations High Commissioner For Human Rights:

"Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, public executions, extra judicial and arbitrary detention, the absence of due process and the rule of law, imposition of the death penalty for political reasons, the existence of a large number of prison camps and the extensive use of forced labour;Sanctions on citizens of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea who have been repatriated from abroad, such as treating their departure as treason leading to punishments of internment, torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or the death penalty;
All-pervasive and severe restrictions on the freedoms of thought, conscience, religion, opinion and expression, peaceful assembly and association and on access of everyone to information, and limitations imposed on every person who wishes to move freely within the country and travel abroad;
Continued violation of the human rights and fundamental freedoms of women, in particular the trafficking of women for prostitution or forced marriage, ethnically motivated forced abortions, including by labour inducing injection or natural delivery, as well as infanticide of children of repatriated mothers, including in police detention centres and labour training camps." 

Human rights don't exist in NK, yet we in the west defend the very people torturing, killing and denying these rights to their own people en masse and criticise our own governments in the same breath. People accusing the west of 'raping the world' from the comfort of their computers ought to step back to appreciate the irony in their own statements. Unless you're comfortable with a regime like this having nuclear weapons that they are openly threatening to use then make no mistake, The regime in North Korea ARE THE BAD GUYS.


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## Jacknife (Apr 10, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> So are you saying the NK couldn't smuggle operatives and/or WMD's onto US soil in the same way Al-Qaeda did (with the people not the WMD's)?
> 
> The US borders are full of massive loopholes, early warning systems aren't going to do a damn thing when a WMD is driven into a major city in the back of a family SVU.



Re-read what you've written here, have a good think about it, then walk away.

A bunch of guys commandeering commercial planes is quite different to getting an enriched uranium warhead and its carrier across international borders and into the US.
Stop watching James Bond and go get a good education into military nuclear capabilities before you make comments like this.


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## treeofgreen (Apr 10, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> It should probably be pointed out that this whole conversation would be impossible in North Korea. In fact it would carry a death penalty, most likely a public execution. There is NO freedom of speech in North Korea, any criticism of the regime is a political crime and the best you could hope for would be a long term stay in a re-education camp. There is also no freedom of religion. Any unauthorized religious activity is a political crime. There is no freedom of the press. ALL television and radio sets are distributed by the state and are only capable of receiving media that is produced by the state. Attempting to alter a tv or radio set to receive foreign media is... you guessed it, a political crime. There is no freedom of movement. You can't even move around the country let alone leave it. Only top political figures can own a car and even then the petrol is doled out by the state as the country is constantly in short supply of ALL resources. The 1990's famine which was directly caused by the policies of the regime cost 1 million lives. NK is the ONLY country to suffer a famine since industrialisation. It's true that the fish rots from the head first.
> 
> This is from the Office of The United Nations High Commissioner For Human Rights:
> 
> ...



I never defended them at all. Never said what they were doing was right. I also have every right to criticize our gov and the USA. The problem isnt really the gov either. Its the puppetmasters that control them - if you want to refute this, go do some research first.

There is no irony in my statements, just the truth that i have come to learn. All the mainstream media fed chumps will only ever see what they want them to see 

Again... sheeple


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## treeofgreen (Apr 10, 2013)

Badsville said:


> Re-read what you've written here, have a good think about it, then walk away.
> 
> A bunch of guys commandeering commercial planes is quite different to getting an enriched uranium warhead and its carrier across international borders and into the US.
> Stop watching James Bond and go get a good education into military nuclear capabilities before you make comments like this.



You serious? What GJ said is very possible. There are tonnes of weapons/amuntion/drugs coming from Mexico to the US each day....

Just so its easier for you... Make bomb (even if its dirty as) --> get it to mexico (a myriad of ways to do this) --> drive into the US.


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## jacorin (Apr 10, 2013)

come on guys....this was started to get ppl to talk to their kids and try to allay their fears and answer their questions,due to some young kids coming into my shop and talking about whats going on and conscription.... you lot really need to get a grip on yourselves....or loosen your grip,your constricting the blood to your brains


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## Skeptic (Apr 10, 2013)

treeofgreen said:


> I never defended them at all. Never said what they were doing was right. I also have every right to criticize our gov and the USA. The problem isnt really the gov either. Its the puppetmasters that control them - if you want to refute this, go do some research first.
> 
> There is no irony in my statements, just the truth that i have come to learn. All the mainstream media fed chumps will only ever see what they want them to see
> 
> Again... sheeple




Of course you have the right to criticise our government. That was kinda my point 
Also, who are the puppet masters you speak of? It sounds a lot like you're a conspiracy theorist. I guess if I did try to refute your premise, anything I could offer would be part of the conspiracy, right? 

Joacorin, this has been an adult conversation. Why are you so desperate to get the thread closed? I've seen a lot worse on this forum


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## champagne (Apr 10, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Human rights don't exist in NK, yet we in the west defend the very people torturing, killing and denying these rights to their own people en masse and criticise our own governments in the same breath. People accusing the west of 'raping the world' from the comfort of their computers ought to step back to appreciate the irony in their own statements. Unless you're comfortable with a regime like this having nuclear weapons that they are openly threatening to use then make no mistake, The regime in North Korea ARE THE BAD GUYS.


so water boarding prisoners, who are being held without charge for years then either released as they couldn't charge them with anything or charged with new laws put in place after the act had taken place.... But this isn't against human rights?
The USA killed the Japanese soldiers that used waterboarding on USA pow but then uses it on pow themselves..... Why hasn't anyone been charged with these war crimes?


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## champagne (Apr 10, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Of course you have the right to criticise our government. That was kinda my point
> Also, who are the puppet masters you speak of? It sounds a lot like you're a conspiracy theorist. I guess if I did try to refute your premise, anything I could offer would be part of the conspiracy, right?



Open your eyes, The people that control the government are the super rich... Why would the give millions to get a person power if they weren't able to control them and get what they wanted?


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## =bECS= (Apr 10, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Also, who are the puppet masters you speak of?



Rothschilds / Illuminati / NWO

One government, one currency, one elite, one banking system, total control over the worlds population.


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## SteveNT (Apr 10, 2013)

I was born in the 50's and growing up in the 60's it was just common knowledge that the Yanks, Soviets, Poms, French etc were going to blow the world to hell. Nuclear armagedon was the accepted norm. Happily it didn't happen and now seems unlikely. (not impossible) When I was 12 I had worked out that I would go to the Boneparte Archipelligo because (by my reckoning) I could live off the land and sea there and ecape all the loonies . Still a bit sad that a 12 year old thinks along those lines really.

These days I think the end of the world is more likely to be a germ (probably one we invent ourselves).

"This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but with a whimper"


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