# Unlicensed Reptiles



## saikrett (Feb 25, 2003)

A certain someone (person Y - NOT ME!!!!) i know has aquired a pair of jackies off someone (person X) that caught them from the wild.

He traded them to someone (person Z) for a pair or gecko's.

In his license person Y wrote that he purchased them off Mr X, but person X didn't write anything in his license.

What do you suppose will happen when the record books will be collected?
Fines, removal of reptiles/license?


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## Administrator (Feb 25, 2003)

Methinks person Y did a big boo boo.


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## Alexahnder (Feb 25, 2003)

Interesting.... Something will have to happen because the licencee has to have a true and accurate record in their licence


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## saikrett (Feb 25, 2003)

do you think i should contact NPWS?
i don't really want to because i good friends with his brother.
Do you think NPWS will pick it up?


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## dan_lizard (Feb 25, 2003)

I think person y will have to prove that he got them of person x, and person x will have to prove he didn't give them to person y.

Either way, i think someone's (if not both) in for a lot of questions from the NPWS.....


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## almaron (Feb 25, 2003)

Oh what a tangled web we weave..............

You've got me. I would suspect that if it's found that person Y knew that these were not legit, then he would be in trouble. Chances are person X will get in trouble no matter what. Person Z might even lose said reptiles. 

Please note that this is all speculation on my part, as I wouldn't know. But I kinda' doubt that gov is going to be particularly sympathetic to XY or Z. :?


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## saikrett (Feb 25, 2003)

i don't believe that person Z knew that they were illegal
But i know tha persons X and Y knew they were illegal


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## dan_lizard (Feb 25, 2003)

Person Z may not have known, but the NPWS will still probably remove them from him.... They were wild caught, and as such, they will remove them and re-release no doubt.

I know what you mean about not wanting to dob people in, but what's more important..... a friends brother, or our native herps?


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## almaron (Feb 25, 2003)

As for turning in these guys, that'd have to be you're call. Me, I'd probably let the gov figure it out, but if it bothers you, do what you gotta' do I guess. 

Without starting a debate, if I had been raised under such laws, I'd still be locked up. I swiped more than one critter outta' the backyard, ditch, woods, etc. growing up, and put them in cages. Mind you, this was somewhat before the enviromentalist nazis took over the general mindset, but hey. I do have a lot more respect for nature nowdays, but I think a lot of that respect was learned from the nature and animals I kept in my room. :? 

Your call mate.


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## saikrett (Feb 25, 2003)

i see where your coming from
If we let one person get away with it then it may snowball to everybody catching reptiles and just writing it on there license.


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## saikrett (Feb 25, 2003)

i was telling his brother about the diamond living in my backyard and i got a phone call from his bro to see if he could try and catch it.

The only reptile i've caught after i realise it was illegal was a lace monitor that wondered through our campsite and got a plastic bag caught around his leg.


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## almaron (Feb 25, 2003)

Oh yeah. Please note that it's not illegal to catch stuff here in the US unless it's endangered or protected for some reason. Varies place to place, but generally ok, legally speaking of course.


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## stretch (Feb 25, 2003)

I guess es each country does what it needs to do for itself in most circumstances. 

I have noticed however that there are huge inconsistencies in the system.
For example, how come it is okay to catch and eat wildlife in the bush, but not catch and keep them?

How many times do we see some weird looking bloke in safari gear and long songs parading around talking of delicacies to eat in the bush!

I have to admit to knowing what I know about lizards from catching and keeping bearded dragons when I was a kid. I would not do it now for various reasons, two primarily being that a) It is against the law and b) to ME, wild is wild and captive is captive and I am happy to keep it that way.

I know of a chicky in my town who is about to have two blue tongues without a licence, and I am going to dob her in for sure. This is because she is flat out caring for her children let alone an animal!

Usually what someone else does is their business as far as I am concerned, unless they flaunt it stupidly to me (And therefore put me in the position of knowing, therefore jeapordising my career if I keep quiet) or endanger the lives. 

Good old Karma has a way of fixing those who do wrong.....eventually.


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## Greebo (Feb 25, 2003)

Log books have to be submitted in April.
Wait and see if npws pick it up.If they don't...then dob him in.


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## jmbrimer (Feb 26, 2003)

Posted: 25 Feb 2003 11:22 am????Post subject: 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
i see where your coming from 
If we let one person get away with it then it may snowball to everybody catching reptiles and just writing it on there license.

Saikrett - Let it be, they'll get busted. You say if 'we' let one person get away with it, but the number of people who try and get caught, or do it anyway is amazing. Parks'll catch on to your friends, they clearly haven't thought through it very well. They probably think they;re the first people to ever try it


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## Magpie (Feb 26, 2003)

I gotta agree with jm. NPWS should catch them, after all that is the whole point of the RK system. Just curious though, did Y keep them for the required 6 months (are we talking NSW?)


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## Hawkeye (Mar 9, 2003)

But as usual do you think that NPWS really looks at the books? I am a little bit sceptical about NPWS actually picking this up and often they need a little bit of help (try maybe an anonymous suggestion?). In fact you should have a little word to Z that his/her licence is in serious permanent danger for possession and that will flow back through Y and X eventually (X seems to be the one who needs to be narced). The subtle suggestion about licence loss and technically a $3300 fine may help this.

Cheers Hawkeye


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## Barney (Mar 9, 2003)

Just threw my expereinces ,
I known of people that have kept there books upto date . When it came to sending in the book it wasnt correct / complete due to HUMAN ERROR !
NPWS picked it up the mistake which warrented a inspection of premise &amp; reptiles to make sure there books balanced . 

As far as I understand they didnt get fined as they had all the other documentation to show where &amp; when aquired the reptiles !

On that note who has had a inspection by NPWS ?
For wat ever reason ! I recall somelast year warning us to make sure books where upto date as random inspections where being done for wat ever reason !


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## sarahbell (Mar 9, 2003)

in qld it is legal to catch certain reptiles and keep them with out a licence but you cant sell them and you can only keep 2 of each type 


dont know about nsw laws though


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## Pinkie (Mar 10, 2003)

Can I just add that I have previously told NPWS about someone who took some reptiles from the wild under the guise of being a member of a wildlife group (NOT wires) and then was advertising them for sale.

They were very professional and respected that I did not want to be identified. I am unsure of how the situation was handled in the end, but I feel I did the right thing to report the person and then let NPWS do something about it. 

Imagine if he/she did catch the diamond in your backyard... How stressed it would be in captivity when the only life it has known is in the wild. I only know in my experiences catching/relocating wild reptiles through Wires that they do get very stressed and defensive in the short time they are held in captivity and in the long term this could lead to the deterioration of the animal.

Saikrett, I would tell NPWS. It is not just for the reason that this person is doing the wrong thing, but for the well-being of the animals that he/she is catching. I could go on about maintaining the diversity of the gene pool as well but I will stop now. :wink:


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## roadkill5000 (Mar 10, 2003)

hey pinkie if your with wires can you catch an injured animal and keep them on surtain technicalities or do they have to be let go :?: 
by the way nice to hear from you


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## Pinkie (Mar 10, 2003)

Hi Rk and thanks  
No you can't keep an injured rescued wild animal with Wires. In most cases they are 'put to sleep' if they cannot survive in the wild. 
It would be against our policy to keep them captive and everything we stand for: "Rescue, Rehabilitation, Release".

In a couple of circumstances however, I know of people who have had blind possums and then applied for PC (permanent care). In this case you have to pay for a special license with NPWS and *give reason *as to why you want to keep them and let an officer come and inspect where they would be kept (the space, etc would need to be sufficient, the environment similar to that in the wild, etc). In this case the lady has a blind adult male and female and she uses them as surrogate parents for her orphaned possums.
I dont know of many people who do this type of thing. It involves a lot of paper work and a lot of inspections by NPWS, and most people in Wires are against it.


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## jmbrimer (Mar 11, 2003)

It's interesting that wild caught animals can be distributed to keepers in NSW by ballot without too much paperwork but there's so much red tape through wires.....


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## saikrett (Mar 11, 2003)

Hey JM
We don't really know where the reptiles for the ballot came from.
When i picked up my 2 BT's ben said that they couldn't release any information about them at this stage, just that they were seized reptiles, he didn't say if they where stolen, smuggled, e.t.c.
he said if taronga Zoo doesn't want them they usually get 'put to sleep'.

I thibnk it is a good idea to have a ballot for them because they were all given the A-OK form taronga.


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## jmbrimer (Mar 11, 2003)

Hi Saikrett - Sorry, I didn't mean the NPWS ones. If you're a member of the AHS for example, you can be put on a list which allows you, in a certain order or by ballot, to claim a reptile that's been rescued by one of their members for no cost. I think this still exists - i actually found my way onto the list even though I'm not a membet and someone called me asking If I wanted a diamond python - as I wasn't a member I had to decline ) I think the herp societies have been allowed to do this for years which is why there was annoyance from some quarters about the NPWS ballot...

Cheers,

J-M


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## Pinkie (Mar 15, 2003)

JM: I think the all the red tape is because I am mainly referring to native mammals, more specifically nocturnal mammals (possums, gliders) that have highly specialised nesting/feeding requirements, etc. And you can't have a licence to have these as pets in the first place (unless you own a zoo)! I think thats why NPWS are extremely careful about it.

I haven't yet heard about anyone in Wires keeping a reptile on as PC (permanent care), if they overcome their injuries they are usually releasable as they can adapt to their injuries better than mammals. If we get an exotic in (and believe me, we get many), then we notify NPWS immediately and it is either taken to a zoo or put to sleep. We get a lot of escaped illegal corn snakes apparently although I'm yet to rescue one.


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## cyber_crimes (Mar 15, 2003)

If anybody went to the Hawksburry herp society meeting last night they would of heard of certain kids from the club caught red handed by NPWS officials catching eastern water dragons.Upon being caught they remarked that they thought owning a RK licence they could do such.When further questioned they then dropped certain peoples names from the club thus giving the society a bad rep as not educating there members. It is there on your licence in black and white that you cannot catch wild stock. As a child I caught and kept the odd blue tongue and bearded dragon etc as im sure we all did,But now educated on NPWS regulations I know better. These people especially those that hold a rk licence and should be well informed on the rules of reptile keeping should face strict consequences for there actions.


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