# Omg



## Nodrog (Nov 4, 2010)

Did anyone just watch KEEPING UP WITH THE JONES they just showed some redneck killing a baby Eastern Brown snake. She had a bucket and a shovel easy solution but no she bloody killed it and was proud about it!!!!!


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## Fangus (Nov 4, 2010)

absolutely appalling ..... two seconds after showing them with a pet turtle and baby crocs .... love those reptiles but not the snakes hey ?


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## ytamarin (Nov 4, 2010)

Yeah, way to show the rest of Australia "the best way" to deal with a snake.


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## reptilife (Nov 4, 2010)

I saw that. Couldn't believe it. NO attempt to relocate it, and as you say... she had a spade & a bucket for God's sake!


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## Nodrog (Nov 4, 2010)

I really wanna do something about this i am so pissed off. Wonder how she would like it if i took a spade to her leg!!


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## ssshazza (Nov 4, 2010)

Absolutely disgusting!!! I urge all of you to make a written complaint about the killing of native wildlife on a national television program! AND it was directly after a Veterinary program....
I hope National Parks get involved, why shouldn't they be fined for killing a native animal????

Send complaints to:

Contact Us | Channel Ten



SO ANGRYRIGHT NOW!!!!


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## lizardman59 (Nov 4, 2010)

how would she like it if i chopped off her head it is disgusting the snake should have bit her and sent her crying


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## lizardman59 (Nov 4, 2010)

put snakes down her pants in her sleep


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## snakeluvver (Nov 4, 2010)

They just showed an appalling, not to mention ILLEGAL act on TV. Awful.


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## Scleropages (Nov 4, 2010)

I am soo glad I don't watch TV.. keep in mind a good 80% of Australia would just kill the snake, narrow minded people...


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## jenene283 (Nov 4, 2010)

Damn it, I forgot it was on tonight. Im glad I didnt see it ! A word that springs to mind is "uneducated" :x


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 4, 2010)

hmmm, there goes my rspca suspicions again, why dont they do anything about??? is it allright if its on a TV show...i think not
its crap....to put it simple


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## garthy (Nov 4, 2010)

As much as I don't agree with what the young lady did, it is common practice all over the country. There is a loop hole in the law stating that it is not illegal to kill a native animal if it is endagering your family, pets or livestock!!!
My biggest beef is that (in my opinion) it was clearly not a brown snake as stated! She may well have killed a harmless snake. I didn't see enough of it to postively identify it but it certainly did not look like a brown to me. What about the turtle kept without a licence, what about the salty travelled hundreds of kms in the searing heat on the back of a cruiser????
Not good to see on TV but let's hope this does raise the issue of killing native reptile through ignorance.


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## snakeluvver (Nov 4, 2010)

Then the narrator said "If there's an Eastern Brown on your property, killing is the only thing to do." Um excuse my but have you ever heard of 
R-E-L-O-C-A-T-I-N-G?


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## thumper84 (Nov 4, 2010)

omg i just saw it dosen't a every good e.g. for that lttle kid dose it


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## WomaPythons (Nov 4, 2010)

i thought it lookd like a olive or sumthin not a browny


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## harley0402 (Nov 4, 2010)

calm down, OMG, i love snakes too but it was in the house yard and they have a little kid, they would be so many snakes there that they wouldnt want to relocate it, baby crocs and turtles cant kill a 3 year old and they sell the crocs anyway, i have snakes and i love them but i wouldnt chance it with my daughter running around the yard, surley some of you have kids.


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## Wookie (Nov 4, 2010)

You are more likely to get bitten relocating than you are killing.


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## jack (Nov 4, 2010)

this happened in the same state that some tv celebrities who ate a rat were persecuted.... hmmn


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## harley0402 (Nov 4, 2010)

thats because there is no need to eat a rat


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## dickyknee (Nov 5, 2010)

I watched it , great show too. 
So what they killed a snake , it sucks but that's life in the country .
If it was me and my kids , that far from help I'd have probably done the same , just like if i find a funnel web spider in my house, i don't try to relocate it in case it gets away and hides in my kids shoe....


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

WHAT A LOAD OF ABSOLUTE RUBBISH THINKING SOME OF YOU HAVE!!! I have raised 4 kids in RURAL bushland encountering EASTERN BROWNS and REDBELLIED BLACKS often on a daily basis EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN...DONT SHOW THEM YOUR PANIC AND INSTILL INTO THEIR OWN LITTLE HEADS TO OVER REACT!! KILLING IT ISNT THE ANSWER....teaching them to stay still and call for mummy or daddy is a way better thing or one day silly parents that show this type of behaviour may get a rude shock that their child took matters into their own hands and tried to copy what they had been shown by the redneck thinking and slam a shovel down on a snake only missing the snake cutting off a toe and to top it off get bitten ...senario is just as real as arr its a venomous snake so it must wanna automatically want to do my family harm ...YOUR KIDS HAVE MORE CHANCE OF DYING IN A CAR ACCIDENT then encountering a DEADLY FATAL BITE from a snake ...


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah it sucks the snake had to die but some snakes do pose a very real risks to human life and if it was your family would you be taking the risk? (I didn't watch the show so don't know all the details). 

Not sure what I would do if it were my nece and nephew. They are both under 3 and would not recognise a snake as being dangerous since they both love pythons. The youngest would probably try to grab it and give it to me as a present.

Still ,I would prefer not to kill the snake if there was another option, like driving 10 mins down the rd and releasing it.


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## dickyknee (Nov 5, 2010)

2-3 year old kids are not always willing to be educated


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah exactly Dicky.


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

dickyknee said:


> 2-3 year old kids are not always willing to be educated


AGREED BUT 2-3 year olds shouldnt be left unsupervised outside without adults watching them in the first place now especially on properties where DAMS and other HIGH risk factors such as rain water tanks etc are there ...SO MAYBE THE PARENTS NEED TO BE EDUCATED NOW mmmmmmm just to easy


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## nicman72 (Nov 5, 2010)

Have to say, I tend to agree with RBBS on this one... cars kill kids, we don't get rid of all the cars, we teach our kids not to run onto the road. That tv segment just perpetuated the filthy cycle of 'the only good snake is a dead snake'. 
For a country so blessed with snakes, I just can't understand why we don't have more public awareness and understanding (and compassion) for them. 
That's my 2c. 
Nic


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

Well Nic sometimes mate blaming the snakes, is so much easier then looking in the mirror and seeing an 'irresponsible' parent now


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## dickyknee (Nov 5, 2010)

nicman72 said:


> Have to say, I tend to agree with RBBS on this one... cars kill kids, we don't get rid of all the cars, we teach our kids not to run onto the road. That tv segment just perpetuated the filthy cycle of 'the only good snake is a dead snake'.
> For a country so blessed with snakes, I just can't understand why we don't have more public awareness and understanding (and compassion) for them.
> That's my 2c.
> Nic



Cars do kill kids , and we do every thing in our power to stop it , we don't just let cars drive around our front lawn where our kids are playing , so why would you allow deadly snakes , spiders or any other harmful thing for that matter ....
I am not saying its ok to kill them , but I can certainly see why some do.


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

I'm with Dicky here. Redbelly you of all people shoulld know that even a careful adult can have unexpected snake related accidents through no fault of their own. Imagine if a small child was tagged by the brown that got your husband.


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## PhilK (Nov 5, 2010)

dickyknee said:


> Cars do kill kids , and we do every thing in our power to stop it , we don't just let cars drive around our front lawn where our kids are playing , so why would you allow deadly snakes , spiders or any other harmful thing for that matter ....
> I am not saying its ok to kill them , but I can certainly see why some do.


 Yep I'm with you here Dicky for sure. 

I haven't grown up on a rural country station (and I doubt any of you have either) but have visited many farms in the last few years. There is a huge idea in the country, right or wrong, that any snake is a good snake and that's the way it is like it or not - the fact is there are so many snakes out there they aren't exactly in danger of extinction.

Why not relocate it? Because the nearest snake catcher is 100s if not 1000s of kilometres away and an inexperienced person should NOT be asked to handle/relocate a venomous snake. So you think "the snake proly wont bite ne-body leev it alone lol!!!!!!111".. that might be the case but it might also be the case they have a small child around, or it DOES bite somebody and they need to get to a hospital... which is 100s or 1000s of kms away. You can't blame them for busting out the shovel or shotgun.. and neither can I. There are 1000s of snakes on their property, probably 10s of 1000s but when one comes into house yard it's deady byes.

Not everyone has the luxury of living 10 minutes from a hospital or snake relocator, don't pass judgement without having been in their situation.


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

dickyknee said:


> Cars do kill kids , and we do every thing in our power to stop it , we don't just let cars drive around our front lawn where our kids are playing , so why would you allow deadly snakes , spiders or any other harmful thing for that matter ....
> I am not saying its ok to kill them , but I can certainly see why some do.


MR KNEE you dont really believe that now do you? 
so you take a spear gun to the beach just incase of a shark sighting? you wrap kids up in bubble wrap to play in the park ,cause ya know they could fall and end up with a fatal head injury ,you watch them eat everything carefully as they can choke to death ,no jumping on beds ,no climbing trees ,no riding bikes or things like that ,dont take them to smell flowers ARRRRRRRR BEES have venom too and have been known to kill so must kill all bees ,all dogs must be put down cause kids have been killed by them as well ,ban peanuts ,wrap cars in foam and drive at 10kms an hour ...

RISK HAPPENS EVERYDAY you teach your children to wear seat belts ,you place safety helmuts on their heads to ride bikes,you teach them to swim THEN why not teach them how to act around a venomous or even non venomous snake then?


AND PHIL what happens when the 4 year old starts to venture out into the wider spaces of his huge property KILL all those snakes as well then?


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## dickyknee (Nov 5, 2010)

Bubble wrap , bees , flowers ... really stretching it there  

Any way , i am not a snake killing red neck , nor do i care if others are , I am making the point if my kid is in danger i try to prevent it , pretty simple really. 




redbellybite said:


> MR KNEE you dont really believe that now do you?
> so you take a spear gun to the beach just incase of a shark sighting? you wrap kids up in bubble wrap to play in the park ,cause ya know they could fall and end up with a fatal head injury ,you watch them eat everything carefully as they can choke to death ,no jumping on beds ,no climbing trees ,no riding bikes or things like that ,dont take them to smell flowers ARRRRRRRR BEES have venom too and have been known to kill so must kill all bees ,all dogs must be put down cause kids have been killed by them as well ,ban peanuts ,wrap cars in foam and drive at 10kms an hour ...
> 
> RISK HAPPENS EVERYDAY you teach your children to wear seat belts ,you place safety helmuts on their heads to ride bikes,you teach them to swim THEN why not teach them how to act around a venomous or even non venomous snake then?


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## waruikazi (Nov 5, 2010)

anouc said:


> I'm with Dicky here. Redbelly you of all people shoulld know that even a careful adult can have unexpected snake related accidents through no fault of their own. Imagine if a small child was tagged by the brown that got your husband.


 
Imagine indeed. So how do you minimise the risks involved when a young child has an encounter with a dangerous snake? 

I have a higher education background in early childhood education and child psychology. I've worked with kids aging from infants right through to young adults (with the majority of my work being with 5 to 7 year olds) over the past seven years, i am an uncle and i am a current snake catcher/relocator. So i do consider myself to be able to talk with authority in this context.

Children that age will model their parents behaviour. The children, if they saw what their parent did, will learn that the best course of action is to kill the snake. If their parent stood still or walked away their children will learn that they should stay still or walk away in that situation. 

So Anouc, you tell me which of the above two scenarios is the safest option for both a child and an adult. Which scenario would more likely lead to a small child being bitten by the brown that bit Nat's husband?


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

I never said anything about doing it in front of a child, or even doing it at all if you read my posts properly. All I said was that I can understand the rationale (which I think most reasonable people would). As I said I didn't watch the show so don't know what happened. I'm at work so can't get ionto a debate right now.

Cheers


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

Dicky yeah fully can comprehend that as a parent of 4 myself ,I would go to all means of protecting my brood as well ...BUT in all honesty what does it say about a REPTILE FORUM that is suppose to have passion and respect for all reptiles including the more deadly bunch ,if say a newbe or non loving reptile person ventures on here and takes a read at the so called snake lovers site and reads its OK to kill snakes cause its better then educating your family on what is the best approach ...

How do we get that point across ,if some of our members support the act itself ?


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

anouc said:


> I never said anything about doing it in front of a child. As I said I didn't watch the show so don't know what happened. I'm at work so can't get ionto a debate right now.
> 
> Cheers


 
IF you are removing the child away from the situation so as to not kill the snake in front of him/her ...then really you have defused the danger already by taking the kid away and can walk away yourself now ...mmmmmm why kill it if the threat of it biting your child has now gone?

AND DONT YOU LOT THINK THAT THE FACT I HAVE SEEN WHAT A BITE CAN DO ...DOES THAT GIVE ME MORE OF AN EXCUSE TO KILL A EB OR ANOTHER VEN NOW ? answer is HELL NO ....I dont blame the snake and niether does my husband ...I hate spiders with a passion but would rather get someone to remove them then kill them ...its my crazy phobia that tells me to kill them BUT reality that keeps me from doing so.


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Previous post restated.



redbellybite said:


> IF you are removing the child away from the situation so as to not kill the snake in front of him/her ...then really you have defused the danger already by taking the kid away and can walk away yourself now ...mmmmmm why kill it if the threat of it biting your child has now gone?


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## PhilK (Nov 5, 2010)

I don't think anybody here is advocating the killing of snakes or saying it is OK or supporting the act? I think people are seeing both sides of the argument (as all rational people should) and trying to the put themselves into others shoes and understanding why some people act the way they do.

I have a passion for dogs too redbelly, but if one attacks a child then I will be the first to put the mongrel down... just because one is passionate about something doesn't mean we blind ourselves to reason.

If we go with gordo's explanation we cannot blame these people.. it is highly probably when they were 5-7 years old their parents killed snakes on the property, and their parents parents and so on so it is engrained within them. Is that right? Perhaps not but it is the way it is.. they don't see the situation defused until the snake is dead. If they leave it alone it will crawl off to who knows where. Perhaps under a roof tile? You can imagine the consequences that would have out there..


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## redbellybite (Nov 5, 2010)

PHIL .... some do agree in killing venomous snakes on here I am afraid to say ..
DOGs that have attacked well so be it ..but a dog that is standing there and hasnt bitten a child near by doesnt get a bullet now, yet a snake that is sunning itself in the yard and hasnt even bitten or shown threat gets the chop for the PHOBIA instilled in people ...thats my point ...not all snake encounters regardless of venomous or not need the shovel treatment ...if the snake is resting on your kids foot or about to strike a child then I can understand that action ..but just being there in the yard is hogwash and I wont budge on that type of thinking action I am afraid .


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## giggle (Nov 5, 2010)

:| I grew up in the bush...on the edge of yengo national park... where I used to run through the long grass chasing snakes and lizards. :| :| 

Common snakes in the area were red belly blacks (OMG so many of these!), carpets and tree snakes ^_^
I was never bitten by anything venomous... and my father NEVER killed ANY snakes... instead he caught them and brought them home for us to look at. 
He captured every species he could, to help us identify them. He taught us the general shapes of different species and colours... let us examine them closely including dead specimens of venomous species so we could get a real good look. 

Im not saying he did the right thing... perhaps he should have taught us to stop and calmly walk away... but his attitude was to try teach us to identify species and if it was dangerous, stop, dont move and watch as it escapes (which the vast majority of snakes do!). The snakes I used to chase were pythons and tree snakes.... the tree snakes ended up chasing me :| LOL

But... the majority of people get bitten in a couple of ways.. they didnt know the snake was there and they stood on it or within its personal bubble... or... they knew it was there and they harassed it in one way or another by trying to relocate it or destroy it. 

My father taught me the importance of life, of all kinds, whether it is a huge highly venomous snake passing through our house or a giant python that ate half our egg laying chickens and then was too fat to escape the chicken pen :| ROFL Not one was killed and not one of us was ever bitten. We were taught common sense! 

I taught my 5 year old daughter if she sees a snake to stop and be very still and quiet and let it go past until its a safe distance away and then move on. 

I personally feel like killing the snake was not the right thing to do, especially on TV. But I also understand their mindset. However... I lived in an area teeming with venomous snakes as a child and never once fell victim. We commonly had venomous snakes in our house which Dad would shoo out of the house :| Pythons lived in our ceiling beams  We were taught to check our shoes, our beds, our toy boxes. Be cautious when opening things and dont put your hand inside holes, under logs etc. 

Having aired that event... I strongly believe they did the wrong thing.  I didn't see it myself... but they have a responsibility in airing their show publicly, to make sure it is factual, legal and safe. 
Killing that snake sounds as though it was none of the above! They could have chosen not to air that particular portion and they certainly shouldn't have! It wasnt live streamed, they chose to put that out there in the public eye!
This alone may provoke a bunch of "heroes" to kill the next snake they see 'endangering childrens lives'.
Whats more... I was disgusted to see them on TV having a laugh going through the damn drive through with a croc strapped up in the back!!!!! Do they not have any consideration for the wellbeing of that animal? Its a living thing and they feel it ok to just casually drive around 'oh hey lets go through the drive through with a poor animal restrained on the back of our vehicle with no shade or shelter from the sun!'

Nope... justify these things all you like... showing the public such disregard for our native reptiles is wrong. Whether this goes on and we never get to see it is no longer the point... the point is... THE WHOLE COUNTRY HAS SEEN IT NOW... and these things will influence those that have seen it, perhaps to mimic those actions. To believe its ok to have a reptile strapped up in the back of your vehicle without shelter for however long you like :| Oh ha ha its such a laugh.


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## impulse reptiles (Nov 5, 2010)

i think your forgetting that people out there making a living on farms , arnt obsessed with with them and don't spend all there time reading about them and cruising the forums....they are out there to make a living not be sensitive and kind to an animal that could put him or his kids in hospital...however these people obviously weren't strangers to herps and putting it on national tv wasn't the best idea...so i still think it was wrong.


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## jessieJEALOUSY (Nov 5, 2010)

As soon as i saw this, i knew a topic would come up here xD
Did anyone miss the little kid standing there yelling snake?
i think he was educated and knew enough not to go near it
i have to agree, i dont approve of them killing it, or showing it on tv, but that opinion is shared by many farmers.


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## giggle (Nov 5, 2010)

Here it is  I watched the episode. It was just a bubba snake! Maybe someone with more knowledge can identify it for sure.


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## moosenoose (Nov 5, 2010)

She did relocate it...into its next life!  It's going to come back as a shovel manufacturering guy


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## Midcoaster (Nov 5, 2010)

its even smaller then i remember!!


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## giggle (Nov 5, 2010)

BTW... doing a quick search on keeping up with the joneses... I discover people are _already_ mimicing this and using what they saw to identify "baby brown snakes" and they kill them with the same shovel technique! :|

THIS is my point. There are many ENDANGERED species of legless lizard that look to idiots like 'baby brown snakes'.

The damage is done.


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## Midcoaster (Nov 5, 2010)

i guess if the people or livestock is in danger rule is out there dead snakes are going to happen!!


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## moosenoose (Nov 5, 2010)

This is the most amusing part in my humblest opinion; on one hand we have reptile enthusiasts (people who are passionate about protection and conservation of reptiles) and are expected to PAY some leech government division for the "privilage" of a relocator’s permit (not that I can be bothered getting one due to the principal of the matter) because it's illegal to interfere with a reptile (eg: moving it to prevent others protected by a legal loophole from killing it)...yet some bozo can bludgeon one to death on national television (probably to the cheers of thousands of reptile hating on-lookers) and get away with it. Yet, because I move something that someone is going to potentially kill because I haven’t fronted up (at my own personal risk) to their property to move it….I’m a target for the law? Hahahaha!


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## ezekiel86 (Nov 5, 2010)

yeahhh i am not watchin it ...thats bollocks


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah reminds me of that episode of South Park wher they use "its comin' right for us" as justification to kill anything and everything.



Midcoaster said:


> i guess if the people or livestock is in danger rule is out there dead snakes are going to happen!!


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

yes giggle you have made a lot of sense in your posts. Whatever your thoughts are on this issue it should definitley not have been showmn on national TV. Not having time to watch such garbage, I didn't realise the snake was just a hatchie.



giggle said:


> BTW... doing a quick search on keeping up with the joneses... I discover people are _already_ mimicing this and using what they saw to identify "baby brown snakes" and they kill them with the same shovel technique! :|
> 
> THIS is my point. There are many ENDANGERED species of legless lizard that look to idiots like 'baby brown snakes'.
> 
> The damage is done.


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## PhilK (Nov 5, 2010)

Has anybody done anything other than complain on the forum? Perhaps contact channel Ten and/or the relevant authority and tell them what's happened.

Make it clear to them that this is behaviour that shouldn't be encouraged, is not really very legal (snake wasn't posing a threat), shouldn't have been put on TV, misidentification is the cause of many innocent animals dying blah blah and they might put a disclaimer after the next show or something?

Probably a good idea to tell them if everyone out there tries to mimic the show people will get bitten and they can be sued for condoning the killing of native wildlife - that might make them listen... it'll certainly be better than a discussion on APS


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## tonesanlainie (Nov 5, 2010)

Without getting into the debate of the action itself, I do feel the show does not depict responsible treatment of animals. I understand reality, but not to advertise it on national TV. Putting a croc onto the back of a ute exposed to sunlight like they did would stress any reptile, let alone the incident on this thread. We all know these actions happen for what ever the reason be, but many views will think these actions are the correct action to take. I wonder if someone gets bitten by say an eastern brown if they can sue the TV station as they aired it? Usually movies have a disclaimer about the actions in a movie/etc are not represenatative of the company providing it etc. I dont think there was such a disclaimer so let the games begin!!


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Phill that was probably one of the best posts I've seen in a long time.

If people feel so strongly about it they should post a draft letter to Ch 10 and then ask for some input from APS members. There is plenty of info in this thread to get you started so it wouldn't take too much effort. You could even send a copy to the broadcasting regulator and get other herp/conservation groups in on the act.

Pointless bickering on APS will not achieve anything.


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## guzzo (Nov 5, 2010)

On the legal aspect of it_

Here is an extract from the NT government web site regarding the killing of snakes

*All native snake species are protected in the Northern Territory. For this reason, it is important that members of the public do not interfere with these animals without an appropriate permit. It is an offence to kill a snake unless; “the snake was within 100m of an occupied building; or the defendant proves that they honestly believed that it was necessary to kill or injure the snake to avoid an immediate danger of death or injury to a person or domestic livestock”.*
*



**back *

Guzzo's opinion - Though they may be lawful in their actions it is probably not the best television and very likely may send out the wrong message.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 5, 2010)

giggle said:


> BTW... doing a quick search on keeping up with the joneses... I discover people are _already_ mimicing this and using what they saw to identify "baby brown snakes" and they kill them with the same shovel technique! :|
> 
> THIS is my point. There are many ENDANGERED species of legless lizard that look to idiots like 'baby brown snakes'.
> 
> The damage is done.


 
Do you have a link to this?


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## waruikazi (Nov 5, 2010)

INteresting, my permit explicitly states that i cannot kill any reptiles.



guzzo said:


> On the legal aspect of it_
> 
> Here is an extract from the NT government web site regarding the killing of snakes
> 
> ...


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## guzzo (Nov 5, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> INteresting, my permit explicitly states that i cannot kill any reptiles.



It is Interesting that they would include this on the government site...It gives people an easy out if they want to kill a snake! 100meters from an occupied building is pretty broad.

Snake - Living with Wildlife - Natural Resources, Environment and the Arts


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## Nodrog (Nov 5, 2010)

The whole point of me starting this thread was the fact that she had a shovel a bucket the snake was 10 or so inches long and the only thing she did was to kill the snake. I know very well that there are and can be certain reasons to kill a snake and if it became a choice between a snake and my boy my boy would win every time.That bieng said my boy was 4 when he seen his first venomous snake it was a death adder in the last 4 years he has seen most types of venomous snakes including inland taipans up close and can recognise all of my snakes purely by what i have told him. This also includes down to common tigers and tassie tigers.In a time where animals are destroyed mistreated and wiped out for the pure fact of laziness ignorance and down right redneck attitudes this should not have been on tv... The best defense we have is knowledge and our ability to learn something which this show is lacking...


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

Yes but could you imagine the political backlash if people were told it was illegal to protect themselves from swarms of viscious snakes? Unfortunatley the general lack of knowledge regarding the dangers of snakes means the legislation must be worded that way to be politically acceptable. It basically means that there will always be a justification for killing snakes.

I mean the wording "they honestly believed" is a defense. So if I claim that I thougt a carpet was a Tiapan then I'm not guilty of any offence.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 5, 2010)

Viscous snakes are the worst kind!


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## Defective (Nov 5, 2010)

Ok so as much as i am Pro snake i have lived on several properties out bush (not quite as bush like the Jones') but my stepmum, dad, sister and i all together. i have gotten up to go feed the horses and in on trip have come across not 1 brown snake but 9 and i had no qualms in chopping off their heads and tossing them into the manure pile! i put my safety and my family's safety first! If that was the first 9 of the day at 8am then that was 9 less to contend with.

I ask for those that are so disgusted with this act hypothetically: if you had a young child of crawling age out the back on a property like that and a brown snake came along and was about to strike, knowing it would possibly kill your kid, would you chop or relocate?

at least reinie had the sense to put milton jr's safety first. What would have happened if that juvi had bitten him? we don't know the reprocussions so we can't judge.



ssshazza said:


> Absolutely disgusting!!! I urge all of you to make a written complaint about the killing of native wildlife on a national television program! AND it was directly after a Veterinary program....
> I hope National Parks get involved, why shouldn't they be fined for killing a native animal????
> 
> Send complaints to:
> ...


please tell me how this is any different to putting a brumby down on TV? that is a wild and native animal on large properties and are also beautiful animals.

both my brothers know how to identify different snakes as i showed them at early ages but that doesn't mean that i would say "hey Gus, EBS go relocate it", no way i'd chop its head off then mash it like mash potato so my 6yr old brother wouldn't touch its fangs!
Seriously if anyone is offended by this post tough! my family come first always, i guard them with my life. it's not illegal to kill native snakes coz ive done it most my life and am yet to be carted off in a patty wagon and go to juvi court or be fined!


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## Snakewise84 (Nov 5, 2010)

yeah my ex was the same way when he killed a brown snake was happy as ever, i was not happy about it when i got home from the hospital after having our first little girl.


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## Laghairt (Nov 5, 2010)

I think you'll find that Brumbys are not an indigenous species.


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## PhilK (Nov 5, 2010)

The law is very ambiguous. Like someone said earlier the "honestly believed" part means it's impossible for anybody to get in trouble. All they have to say is that they honestly believed it was a deadly snake going to bite them and they can do whatever they like.



Lambert said:


> hypothetically: if you had a young child of crawling age out the back on a property like that and a brown snake came along and was about to strike, knowing it would possibly kill your kid, would you chop or relocate?


What does that have to do with anything? That wasn't the scenario at all.



> please tell me how this is any different to putting a brumby down on TV? that is a wild and native animal on large properties and are also beautiful animals.


Brumbies are feral animals NOT native. They should all be wiped out.


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## Defective (Nov 5, 2010)

they may not be an indigenous species (thank you for that  ) but how still how is it any different?


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## giggle (Nov 5, 2010)

Lambert said:


> I ask for those that are so disgusted with this act hypothetically: if you had a young child of crawling age out the back on a property like that and a brown snake came along and was about to strike, knowing it would possibly kill your kid, would you chop or relocate?



Firstly... the kid isnt crawling age. Secondly the snake was no where near the kid. Of course the safety of the animal comes second to your own child... however the kid was not in immediate risk from this snake.

Having a child of my own... if I was in the same situation I personally would have praised my child for alerting me and used it as a learning opportunity to teach the child the species and what to do when they see one.

But.. this is all personal opinions aside... they should not have aired it, along with having a croc strapped to the back of the truck in the hot days sun while they go through the drive through. And my complaint has already been registered but what better place to have a debate about snakes than a snake forum. It puzzles me why some people get so cranky about on topic debates, why the heck are you guys on forums at all?


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## giggle (Nov 5, 2010)

Lambert said:


> they may not be an indigenous species (thank you for that  ) but how still how is it any different?



Brown snake is native. The implications on animals that look like brown snakes to the untrained eye but are endangered species. THATS the difference. Just because you think a pony is pretty doesn't mean it has more right to live than a snake or legless lizard.


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## SLACkra (Nov 5, 2010)

That snake would have been so incrediably easy to relocate. Seriously, all you need to get that guy safely away from people is a stick and a bucket. It always amazes me that people seem to think snakes are out to get them. I've relocated a few snakes and every time they run away from me. The last tiger I moved was docile as, the old guy whose house he was in was amazed at how easily it was to catch him. 10 seconds, snake in a bag. Also it's not hard to learn how to catch snakes! Hell my grandfather with no experience uses a garden fork to scoop up snakes and drop them over the fence into a bit of bush.


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## fugawi (Nov 5, 2010)

Firstly these people aren't city slickers thrown into the bush, they are country folk, which means they have lived with herps and should know how to handle them. The first thing they should have taught their kids, from as early age as possible, is that snakes are potentially dangerous and not to touch but to tell mum or dad. Secondly they have a croc as a pet and deal with crocs all the time, meaning they should be able to handle a simple baby brown. This would be like showing Steve Irwin killing a snake because it came onto his property.
My inlaws live out near Griffith and everybody in the area of the small town they live in knows how to ID ALL reptiles in their vicinity. My son at 4 told his Poppy not to go into a field because he saw a Brown in there (P.s WE live in Sydney). Admittedly some will kill them but most just shoo them away.
The vast majority of snake bites come from people trying to kill the snake. Attacking the snake is only going to piss the snake off more and force it to defend itself.
Personally, I blame the producers for trying to make the show more interesting (lets bring some danger in to get more viewers) It wouldn't amaze me to find out that the snake was caught and put there for ratings.
A couple of years ago there was a story in the local paper about Spot, the heroic wonder dog in Kellyville, Sydney. The vacant lot next door to their house had a Black, that gave birth to babys that started entering their yard and Spot would kill them all. I rang the paper and told them it was illegal to kill native animals and the family could be fined for this so the paper wrote a second story saying that the family should have called WIRES, the council etc to have all of them removed, not killed. This shows education can go a long way.
In the end the Joneses probably know better, and it is all just a grab for ratings. It is up to us to EDUCATE these producers and write to them telling them that these things are wrong (I am). The best way to hurt them is in the ratings.....Simply don't watch.


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## moosenoose (Nov 5, 2010)

Most people don't like snakes - fact. A good one is a dead one (regardless of legalities) in their minds...they don't care, and won't ever care. It's a simple case of eliminating a deadly hazzard. If you asked them, or they had one wish, it'd be that they never see another snake again on their property. A bite all the way out there could be lethal considering medical access, not to mention costly. 

Personally I love the show


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## omg_a_gecko (Nov 5, 2010)

they shouldnt have killed protected fauna, on film, then shown it on tv, then said its the only option


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## SnakeyTroy (Nov 5, 2010)

I had a rant about it at work today but it came as no surprise to me that all my colleagues agreed with the show and thought it was right that they killed the snake given the presence of a small child....
interesting to not that it was the child who was doing the right thing by standing away from the snake and it was quite appearent to me that Little Milton was in absolutely no danger at all however the adults who should know better are the ignorant un-educated ones who know nothing about snakes. all they had to do was move the snake 500 meters from the house yard and they would never have a problem with it again.
but ofcourse they don't understand that.


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## Wookie (Nov 5, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> WHAT A LOAD OF ABSOLUTE RUBBISH THINKING SOME OF YOU HAVE!!! I have raised 4 kids in RURAL bushland encountering EASTERN BROWNS and REDBELLIED BLACKS often on a daily basis EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN...DONT SHOW THEM YOUR PANIC AND INSTILL INTO THEIR OWN LITTLE HEADS TO OVER REACT!! KILLING IT ISNT THE ANSWER....teaching them to stay still and call for mummy or daddy is a way better thing or one day silly parents that show this type of behaviour may get a rude shock that their child took matters into their own hands and tried to copy what they had been shown by the redneck thinking and slam a shovel down on a snake only missing the snake cutting off a toe and to top it off get bitten ...senario is just as real as arr its a venomous snake so it must wanna automatically want to do my family harm ...YOUR KIDS HAVE MORE CHANCE OF DYING IN A CAR ACCIDENT then encountering a DEADLY FATAL BITE from a snake ...


 
I've noticed you only see black and white. Get in the grey . You have completely ignored half the argument, choosing to only hear yours. There is an area of compromise..... Deadly + kids + close to home + living in middle of nowhere = kill. Harmless + any situation = dont kill. Deadly + suburbia = personal choice.


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## Wookie (Nov 5, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Dicky yeah fully can comprehend that as a parent of 4 myself ,I would go to all means of protecting my brood as well ...BUT in all honesty what does it say about a REPTILE FORUM that is suppose to have passion and respect for all reptiles including the more deadly bunch ,if say a newbe or non loving reptile person ventures on here and takes a read at the so called snake lovers site and reads its OK to kill snakes cause its better then educating your family on what is the best approach ...
> 
> How do we get that point across ,if some of our members support the act itself ?


 
Simple, you just need to accept that not everybody shares your views. Move on and stop attacking people for not sharing your view.


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## redbellybite (Nov 6, 2010)

Brodak..THIS is a reptile forum which means ALL reptiles ..now majority own non vens ,this is true ,but alot also either own vens or deal with vens ..I understand the implications of FEAR ...but as it being a reptile forum ,and not only have I pointed out but as others have said as well ,killing it was totally uncalled for ..regardless of kids ,whom like myself and many on here have either sucessfully grown their children up or are living with kids in the outback/bush and have lived with snakes including vens ,never felt the need to kill ,We either took the kids away or taught them to stand still and call for help...the last thing ya want to promote on a reptile forum is its ok to kill first n ask questions later...the people that commented on NOT killing ,most have and still either own or work with vens so they're not talking through their hat ,and as I said I am a parent so protecting my kids attitude is part of my instinct too ...but allowing them to learn a better way to deal with some of our more lethal wildlife is far better to teach them ,then showing them a shovel is the only answer ...had that snake been of the non venomous type and was shown a shovel on TV ...bet ya hairys that APS outrage would have been in overkill ..but like I said ,vens cop a bad wrap because of fear and ignorance and media hype and was hoping that at least on a reptile forum this could be defused but unfortunantly its to no avail ...


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## Lewy (Nov 6, 2010)

Just have to say my little bit and its going to be little lol

The show is a joke! The owner of the property is a complete up him self cow boy ****er.. They have absolutely no respect for the animals of Australia or the land they don't deserve

Lewy


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## PhilK (Nov 6, 2010)

Yep our family friends now this family through the bush telegraph and apparently they're not so great. The wife often comes to polo meetings all bruised black and blue, so everything is not as it seems ... but then that's TV for you.

I can't believe people still don't understand why they killed the snake.. Yes, they could have relocated it but what farmer has time to take a snake and drive a few kms from home to let it go? None. They killed it because if they ignored it or moved it a small distance away the chance was there that it would be back and in the wrong place at the wrong time leading to a potentially deadly bite. Killing it negates that risk.. how is that hard to comprehend?


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## AaronR (Nov 6, 2010)

agreed to a degree but little milton is being tought how to drive a car ride a horse catch croc so to me he is well advanced for his age. if he can do the above he can surely understand snake! if you live in the bush you expect bush fires same as if you live country expect snakes. 100% wrong IMO and I will lodge a written complaint with network 109 if there link ever works(conveiently)


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## giggle (Nov 6, 2010)

riding a horse is far more dangerous than the possibility of a snake bite ^_^ If he falls... he could break his neck... and they wouldnt be able to move him... they would need to wait ages for flying ambulance. 

it isnt risk factor to them, it was just easy, so they did it. 

But that aside... the real guilty party here is channel ten... so please if you have taken the time to write here... take the time to complain to channel ten as well


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## Wookie (Nov 6, 2010)

giggle said:


> riding a horse is far more dangerous than the possibility of a snake bite ^_^ If he falls... he could break his neck... and they wouldnt be able to move him... they would need to wait ages for flying ambulance.
> 
> it isnt risk factor to them, it was just easy, so they did it.
> 
> But that aside... the real guilty party here is channel ten... so please if you have taken the time to write here... take the time to complain to channel ten as well


 
Yes but apart from not riding the horse they cant remove that risk. Killing the snake does remove the risk. I accept that MOST of the time it isn't the most appropriate action but people need to realise that on rare occasions it is the most effective method of diffusing the situation. Can we agree on this?


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## PhilK (Nov 6, 2010)

Riding a horse is a necessity for them though... setting foot outside the house at all is a huge risk - what if you break your ankle on someone's boot on the front step? Having a shower - you could slip and crack your head!! Oh my God we'd better all sit inside in bubble wrap and never bathe.

The fact is that yes, their life includes risk that are not really avoidable - driving cars, riding horses, flying choppers. But when a snake is in the yard it is very easy to reduce that risk, so they do.


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## Nodrog (Nov 6, 2010)

I don't understand some say it is a time issue some say it is a safety issue but i totally disagree this is an ignorance issue, by 1 the woman who killed the snake and 2 by the tv station that aired it this bieng channel 10. Fine they might kill 100s of snakes a year all around the country but i (we who hate it) don't get to see it and that is exactly the way i would like it i am working very hard to take the only good snake is a dead snake opinion out of my misses and my son and the people who know that i keep snakes so to see this on tv is just wrong..... WRONG I TELL YOU!!!!


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## redbellybite (Nov 6, 2010)

Nodrog said:


> I don't understand some say it is a time issue some say it is a safety issue but i totally disagree this is an ignorance issue, by 1 the woman who killed the snake and 2 by the tv station that aired it this bieng channel 10. Fine they might kill 100s of snakes a year all around the country but i (we who hate it) don't get to see it and that is exactly the way i would like it i am working very hard to take the only good snake is a dead snake opinion out of my misses and my son and the people who know that i keep snakes so to see this on tv is just wrong..... WRONG I TELL YOU!!!!


WITH YOU ON THAT ONE ........I just took a look at the episode on the website ...the killing part was done cruelly that snake is in agony and she severs it a few times,pushing the shovel down on it and trying to cut through its tiny body, no instant death here... so even if you say its ok to kill ,surely you can understand and agree that killing the way she did was barbaric and ever so cruel ...

Also I am not so sure on that being an actual brown snake the belly was plain not a speck in sight and the Pseudonaja textilis inframacula which doesnt present with specks on the belly isnt found there...someone that is more on the know about browns in that region could help out ...take a squiz at the video footage on the website and see if you can ID ...*
*


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## sneakypete (Nov 6, 2010)

I think that it is totally the wrong message to be sending out to the general population to kill a snake because it "might" be a danger to a child. As for the argument of killing snakes in the home paddock, I wonder how many snakes there are in that home paddock that are well concealed in shed's, roof's etc and not slithering across open grass where the one was that was killed. Obviously little Milton did the right thing in staying away and alerting his parents, education is the key here. What about the croc pen they have on the property, little Milton "might" climb the fence and go into the croc pen, but he would have been warned of the dangers there. Senseless killing IMO


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## PhilK (Nov 6, 2010)

sneakypete said:


> ...I wonder how many snakes there are in that home paddock that are well concealed in shed's, roof's etc and not slithering across open grass where the one was that was killed.


 Arrgghh exactly!! That's the whole point. They kill the ones they can SEE so they DON'T go hide in the shed, roof etc. They obviously aren't going to tear apart their buildings looking for a snake but if they SEE one then they kill it so it doesn't hide somewhere where it might bite someone!

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, and I wouldn't do it, and I don't think they should have aired it but come on people see both sides of the coin!


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## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 10, 2010)

great thread. 
Some good opinions and points from all views 
Back to what PhilK said.
Anyone actually do anything?


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## Glimmerman (Nov 10, 2010)

PhilK said:


> Arrgghh exactly!! That's the whole point. They kill the ones they can SEE so they DON'T go hide in the shed, roof etc. They obviously aren't going to tear apart their buildings looking for a snake but if they SEE one then they kill it so it doesn't hide somewhere where it might bite someone!
> 
> I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, and I wouldn't do it, and I don't think they should have aired it but come on people see both sides of the coin!



Well said Phil :lol:

After reading the whole thread it still eludes me to think how the 'back yard' conservationists are the total opposite to these ppl but still single minded.

They live on 1.3 million acres - it is not like in the event of a snake bite that they can drive to the hospital. I too in those circumstances, would probably do the same thing. (They went shopping to buy the young rookie some clothes to their nearest centre - 200klm away)

Of all the members of this forum from suburbia - how many of you have actually spent time in the bush, on a remote station or outside of 200km radius of a hospital??? (And I don't mean taking your city slicker 4wd on the dirt either for a weekend).

Yes it probably shouldn't have been broad casted on tv the way it did - but at the end of the day - it is a reality tv show about life on a remote cattle station in the top end. So YES! they do do things a little differently.

Send Channel 10 and email and they "might" but a blurb up at the end of the show stating that it is not best practice the "KILL" animals - but relocate where possible.

Thats my 2 cents worth - flame away :evil:


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## aussiereptilekid (Nov 13, 2010)

yer i seen keeping up with the joneses its a good show but i was angry they did that my mum was watching it to and she said they have to do that and i was like no they dont


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## garthy (Nov 14, 2010)

aussiereptilekid said:


> yer i seen keeping up with the joneses its a good show but i was angry they did that my mum was watching it to and she said they have to do that and i was like no they dont


 
'an she was lke yer... 'n I was like nahhh... lol

I actually like the show... will take the wife beating rumour with a grain of salt, I dont agree with the snake killing but am realistic enough to know that it happens, although I do not condone it.


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## dossy (Nov 14, 2010)

all the people saying that they should be fined and stuff ( i agree do not get me wrong) need to remember it is illigal to brek a law unless humman life is endangrd...you can speed if your mate cut his leg off so some thing. i do agree she could of just left it or relocate it to a better place, the other thing to remember is that they are a while away from medical help so if bitten by a snake they have a long way to medical supplys.


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