# please id found this in my pool today



## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)




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## fourexes (Nov 17, 2012)

baby ackie? nor eal idea just having an early stab.. lol


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

in the first pic he was under the water just chillin luck iam baby sitting me little cousin and see wanted me to come for a swim as it is hot here today i though why not


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## saximus (Nov 17, 2012)

Varanus tristis would be my bet. What a find!


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## spongebob (Nov 17, 2012)

It's a goanna of some sort. Looks more like a scalaris to me than a tristis which would fit with your location. The heads a bit like a storrs but the spots look more scalaris.Yes nice find


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## Monitors_R_Us (Nov 17, 2012)

Has a spencers pattern, that is cool.


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## saximus (Nov 17, 2012)

Monitors_R_Us said:


> Has a spencers pattern, that is cool.



Nothing like a spenceri pattern champ


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## MonitorMayhem (Nov 17, 2012)

agree with spongebob at first sight was thinking tristis but the pattern and colour look like scalaris possibly either way very nice find very cute


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## Chris (Nov 17, 2012)

All I find in my pool is dead rats, frogs & the occasional blue tongue... nice find


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 17, 2012)

Pattern on the back certainly suggests tristis or scalaris but the head and neck not so much. I do not know the pattern of juvenile V.mitchells but I'd consider it an option seeing as it was found in the pool.


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

View attachment 270922

here is one more pic


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## Monitors_R_Us (Nov 17, 2012)

saximus said:


> Nothing like a spenceri pattern champ


 Are you joking or? I have a spencers with very similar patterning.

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CHRI5 said:


> All I find in my pool is dead rats, frogs & the occasional blue tongue... nice find


I find lady beetles and backswimmers and the occasional duck


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## bohdi13 (Nov 17, 2012)

great find , looks to me like a Varanus tristis !

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great find , looks to me like a Varanus tristis !


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

i have added a pic with a different angle of the head if that helps


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## spongebob (Nov 17, 2012)

Can't see this photo.

There's a pic of a baby Mitchell's in this thread

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/field-herping-reptile-studies-5373/aussie-monitors-191019/

I don't think the head shape is right.


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## Bushman (Nov 17, 2012)

It looks like it could be _Varanus scalaris_ based on pattern. Was it found in Darwin?


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

yea in Howard springs area


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## Bushman (Nov 17, 2012)

My best guess is _Varanus scalaris _then, based on colour, pattern and location.


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

what about [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Myriad Pro, Helvetica]Varanus tristis tristis i fond a pic on the net what look very similar
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what about [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Myriad Pro, Helvetica]Varanus tristis tristis i found a pic on the net what look very similar
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## spongebob (Nov 17, 2012)

Tristis and Mitchell's have pointy snouts. Yours is more blunted like scalaris


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## Pseudo (Nov 17, 2012)

It's a hatchy V. scalaris


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

true dont know much about monitors at all just looked similar to me 

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do they dig holes cos I have a few large holes around me yard I am on 5 acres

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is _Varanus scalaris_ the spotted tree monitor ???


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## CamdeJong (Nov 17, 2012)

Varanus scalaris. Prominent ocelli comprising *dark-centred* pale spots, sometimes overlaid with reddish-brown bands. Tail dark with irregular narrow pale rings. _Wilson & Swan, A Complete Guide to Reptiles of Australia_.


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## eipper (Nov 17, 2012)

It is Varanus cf scarlaris until it is split up.


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## phatty (Nov 17, 2012)

ok vanranus scarlaris is the scientific name what is it comon name is it spotted tree monitor


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## Albino93 (Nov 17, 2012)

Yep spotted tree monitor.


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## HerpAddict (Nov 17, 2012)

Keelback...

_Do NOT reply if you have no idea and are wild guessing. Don't post rubbish, stupid comments etc or you will be infracted under General Rule 5: Posts must be meaningful and not waste the time of other site users. We would like this to be a serious and educational forum with no fighting, nastiness or stupid comments.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/reptile-identification-5396/reptile-identification-forum-please-read-193502/_


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## Bananapeel (Nov 17, 2012)

judging by the pattern, I'd say a V.tristis but that nose is unusually blunt for it to be a V.tristis so based on the head shape I'd go a V.Scalaris.
Maybe it's a crossbreed...? i don't know, that's a hard one. pretty fella though!

and apparently the answer to most snake ID's are 'it's a keelback' so people just say keelback for any ID. probably get a good percent of ID's correct too.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 18, 2012)

Albino93 said:


> What is the go with keelbacks these days? lol


If you read the introductory stickies to using this forum, you would know that moderator responsible for establishing it, did so to provide a serious identification and educational forum. A major motivation was to obviate the potential for disaster through flippant comments made with respect to snake IDs in particular.

The guidelines for use speak for themselves. Yet we have individuals who know better but insist on under-mining the forum’s integrity with the done to death “Keelback” comment or similar. (I will make the personal observation that there are not a lot of neurones required to generate that as a post.)

Perhaps people vindicate their actions on the basis of it being an isolated comment. If so, please note that the line is very clear and this action is on the wrong side of it. Such ‘isolated’ comments are the thin edge of the wedge, as others follow the example set.

A responsible individual should exercise a little self-control and refrain from making such comments when the “opportunity arises” or they simply get the urge. This is what has been asked of you (ref: Site Rule 5) if you wish to utilise this particular forum. 

The ID Forum will only work if we, the users, make it work. For those that are not interested in doing that, there are lots of other forums you can go and play in. For those who may have succumbed to temptation, without thinking about the likely ramifications… there is the delete button.

Blue


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## thomasssss (Nov 18, 2012)

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Bluetongue1 said:


> If you read the introductory stickies to using this forum, you would know that moderator responsible for establishing it, did so to provide a serious identification and educational forum. A major motivation was to obviate the potential for disaster through flippant comments made with respect to snake IDs in particular.
> 
> The guidelines for use speak for themselves. Yet we have individuals who know better but insist on under-mining the forum’s integrity with the done to death “Keelback” comment or similar. (I will make the personal observation that there are not a lot of neurones required to generate that as a post.)
> 
> ...


well put blue , also people making wild stabs at snake ids are pretty much in the same category imo if your not reasonably experienced with vens just sit back and learn


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## SteveNT (Nov 18, 2012)

Looks like a hatchie V. panoptes to me, the back markings are circular as opposed to spots.


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## Albino93 (Nov 18, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> If you read the introductory stickies to using this forum, you would know that moderator responsible for establishing it, did so to provide a serious identification and educational forum. A major motivation was to obviate the potential for disaster through flippant comments made with respect to snake IDs in particular.
> 
> The guidelines for use speak for themselves. Yet we have individuals who know better but insist on under-mining the forum’s integrity with the done to death “Keelback” comment or similar. (I will make the personal observation that there are not a lot of neurones required to generate that as a post.)
> 
> ...



Yeh im aware of the new identifiction part of the forum, i just havn't read many of the threads in it so i wasn't sure why alot of people call things keelbacks when they clearly are not. I understand alot of people jump at the chance to identify something when they have no clue. With venomous snake id's i will not answer, i will sit back and read the thread because i do not know much about vens let alone identify them, but with python id threads i am able to identify most of them but i still dont jump at the chance if i am unsure. Thanks for ur post Bluetongue1, their always very informative and helpful.


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## thomasssss (Nov 18, 2012)

Albino93 said:


> Yeh im aware of the new identifiction part of the forum, i just havn't read many of the threads in it so i wasn't sure why alot of people call things keelbacks when they clearly are not. I understand alot of people jump at the chance to identify something when they have no clue. With venomous snake id's i will not answer, i will sit back and read the thread because i do not know much about vens let alone identify them, but with python id threads i am able to identify most of them but i still dont jump at the chance if i am unsure. Thanks for ur post Bluetongue1, their always very informative and helpful.


well im not to sure to be honest , its been going on for as long as ive been on the forum not sure who or what started it but it has been done to death as blue said , id be interested if an older member does know the reasoning behind , who and why


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## saximus (Nov 18, 2012)

Bananapeel basically got it. Go back through old id threads and you'll notice the most common answer is usually Keelback. I guess it's probably because they are one of the most commonly occurring snakes that most "normal" people can't identify. Everyone knows what an RBB, EB or Carpet looks like so nobody is gonna ask for an id on one of them. The next most common one that I've personally noted is probably Golden Crowneds. Maybe we should start a trend to take shotgun guesses using that instead


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## Albino93 (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeh ive only recently started noticing people identifying everything as keelbacks either as a joke or just guessing with no knowledge, ive seen many photos of keelbacks but i still can never identify them, i always get confused with vens cause to me alot of them look similar. The only vens i could probably identify correctly are EB's and RBB's.


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## saximus (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeah they can be tricky. It's especially problematic because they are pretty similar to rough-scaled snakes so a misidentification between those two can be the difference between embarrassment and death.
In threads like this I don't think people should get in trouble (especially once the positive id has been established) because a baby monitor isn't going to kill anyone, regardless of the species. Unfortunately since people are too stupid to understand when things like that are and aren't appropriate though we need to have blanket rules like the ones implemented on the new forum.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 19, 2012)

*Albino*, the “Keelback” response actually goes back to a specific incident, which I have seen talked about on a couple of occasions but was not interested in enough to ask about. Anyway, as a result of that incident, it became an “in joke” amongst those in the know to deliberately misidentify a snake as a “Keelback”. Other forum users could see that this response was viewed as particularly humorous, so without really understanding why, many jumped on the bandwagon. It was soon being used in other than snake threads. In some cases it has initiated a competition as to who could come up with the most ridiculous ID e.g. Anaconda, Tyrannosaurus etc. 

“*1. Please note only sensible posts that are on topic to the related ID thread.*”… the very first line of how to use this forum and the only separately stated rule. *Saximus*, whilst clearly there is an additional safety facet involved in snake IDs, a reading of the "Guidelines for use of this forum” clearly indicates the need for more than just taking snake ID threads seriously. These guidelines are about changing attitudes to all ID threads so that they may be utilised as the excellent educational vehicles they have the potential to be.

Someone went to a lot of effort to make this all happen and put it together, in response to lots requests and concerns from forum members. The rules just couldn’t be any clearer. If someone breaks them, me included, why shouldn’t they be punished? They were told they would be infracted!

It is not up to any individual user to change the rules to suit themselves or others.

Blue


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 19, 2012)

> i could probably identify correctly are EB's and RBB's.



Considering the Brown Clade I'd consider EB's and all other browns the hardest Australian Elapids to identify. In fact I can't think of any I personally have more trouble with. 

As Blue says the keelback goes back specifically to an incident where Jonno posted a picture of a captive Taipan specifically calling it a Keelback as a joke, somebody who obviously didn't get the joke asked if he could be wrong and it might actually be a taipan followed promptly by someones response "Mate that's definitely a keelback" I think it's even in a couple signatures on here. 

It was very funny originally, and if used sparingly and with wit I'm sure it could have remained funny, but it's been done to death. Time to get over it.


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## phatty (Nov 19, 2012)

well i think i might have found it mother/ father my dogs dug a hole out and got a monitor  
they are normally in a pen but the last couple of day i have left them out. i will put some pics up tonight that will probably give us a def id


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## Colin (Nov 19, 2012)

thanks bluetongue1 for your post explaining the situation about keelbacks. your comments are always appreciated mike.
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posting "keelback" as an ID for a monitor or a reptile not remotely like a keelback is just not funny guys and just makes you look like an idiot trying to be a comedian. I will infract you for it and if it persisits boot you permanently from this forum. I hope this is crystal clear. I wont have this forum turn into the usual chit chat rubbish on here. 

"Do NOT reply if you have no idea and are wild guessing. Don't post rubbish, stupid comments etc or you will be infracted under General Rule 5: Posts must be meaningful and not waste the time of other site users. We would like this to be a serious and educational forum with no fighting, nastiness or stupid comments."

*Please read this
*http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...tile-identification-forum-please-read-193502/


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## Albino93 (Nov 19, 2012)

GeckPhotographer said:


> Considering the Brown Clade I'd consider EB's and all other browns the hardest Australian Elapids to identify. In fact I can't think of any I personally have more trouble with.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 19, 2012)

Finally, I get to post what I want… 

*Phatty*, I think you already have your positive ID from Spongebob & others… a form of _V. scalaris_. The group is very variable (therefore a pain identification-wise) and has long been considered to contain a number of subspecies, and more recently, species.

Allowing for the fact that it is a hatchling, the snout is still not sharp enough for _V.tristis_ – compare the side-on view with one of the hatchling _tristis_ shown side-on in the tub. The bands around the base of the tail in _tristis_ are not continuous whereas in _trisitis_ they are. Young _trisitis_ invariably have a well developed dark eye streak which is most often absent in _scalaris_, as it is here. I do not find the pattern on the back useful as it can be virtually identical for both species.

*Steve NT*, the stand out difference with _panoptes_ is this one’s lack of a dark eye streak sharply bordered above and below with white or cream. It also lacks black dots. Superficially, quite a few hatchling monitors do look quite similar.

GeckoPhotographer, Found in a swimming pool is not any indication of aquatic preference. I have retrieved a drowned Marbled Gecko from our pool. Whether they are attempting to access water to drink or just checking it out, I suspect they just cannot cope with the smooth sides and they loose their footing.

Blue

PS. Thanks Colin.


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