# Poached WA reptiles found in Vic



## RoryBreaker (May 11, 2016)

http://www.australiangeographic.com...les-poached-from-wa-outback-found-in-victoria


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## geckoman1985 (May 12, 2016)

Its things like this that make this industry look bad but it seem to happen all to often now days. its sad to see these animals were taken from a beautiful part of the world and for them not to be able to be returned.


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## Jonesy1990 (May 12, 2016)

Does this mean that the wildlife will now be euthanized? 
This is horrible. Us western Australian herp keepers have enough of a hard time getting animals already, I hate how people continue to do the wrong thing and potentially make it harder for the people doing the right thing. Good on the authorities for continuing their efforts to stop this rubbish. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BredliFreak (May 12, 2016)

I'm amazed people can get things out of WA :lol: 

It's sad that people still haven't learned and that the animals have to pay the price 

What was that monitor at the top?


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## kingofnobbys (May 12, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> I'm amazed people can get things out of WA :lol:
> 
> It's sad that people still haven't learned and that the animals have to pay the price
> 
> What was that monitor at the top?


Plenty of grey nomads and other tourists who drive to these places to have adventures, site-see, fish, 4wd and have camping/ caravanning holidays. Very easy I expect to catch and then bring back to NSW , Vic etc in tubs in the caravan or camper - no one checks what you have in the caravan / camper / boat .

If they are inclined to be make a quick $ , don't care about protecting our native animals , and are able to catch the critters , it's open slather and the chances of being caught are probably very small.


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## Dragon_77 (May 12, 2016)

It annoys the hell out of me when l hear that people have taken Reptile's from the wild illegaly without a valid take from the wild permit....and it is so sad that what ever has been taken from the wild ends up having to be euthanase or killed, or because of people who are greedy to make more money so they can live the high or luxury life or because of some greedy crooks.

l have in the pass reported people who l will not name for selling Lizard's under false sub-species names, just so they can sell then to people in states where they normally are not allowed to be kept on a private wildlife licence, l only did it because l care about the Reptile's, and l don't want new keepers to the hobby buying Reptile's and not being aware that they cannot keep that species on licence, and only then do they have to hand it over to the wildlife authorities and they risk getting a fine or having their licence cancelled or suspended.

And l will continue to report anyone l hear of taking from the wild or selling swapping local - national - international any Reptile's without a valid wildlife licence.

A true Reptile keeper is someone who has a love and passion for them, and does not take up Reptile keeping just to make money on them, l myself have loved keeping and breeding Reptile's since l was 5 years old and will continue until the day l die.


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## Wally (May 12, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Plenty of grey nomads and other tourists who drive to these places to have adventures, site-see, fish, 4wd and have camping/ caravanning holidays. Very easy I expect to catch and then bring back to NSW , Vic etc in tubs in the caravan or camper - no one checks what you have in the caravan / camper / boat .
> 
> If they are inclined to be make a quick $ , don't care about protecting our native animals , and are able to catch the critters , it's open slather and the chances of being caught are probably very small.





You're always quick to proportion blame on particular segments of society. Without any evidence I might add.

Now it's grey nomads pillaging the bush. Sheesh.........


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## GBWhite (May 12, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Plenty of grey nomads and other tourists who drive to these places to have adventures, site-see, fish, 4wd and have camping/ caravanning holidays. Very easy I expect to catch and then bring back to NSW , Vic etc in tubs in the caravan or camper - no one checks what you have in the caravan / camper / boat .
> 
> If they are inclined to be make a quick $ , don't care about protecting our native animals , and are able to catch the critters , it's open slather and the chances of being caught are probably very small.




I think you'll find that it's not so much grey nomads out to make a quick buck but people either within or that have a good knowledge of the hobby that poach target specific species themselves or have someone do it for them.

I heard from very good sources that it got that bad in Nth Queensland that the authorities had covert motion detection cameras set up in areas where poaches were know to operate.

Poaching wild specimens was one of the principle concerns and considerations of the authorities before licensing was introduced in all states and territories. Turns out that they had good reason for their concerns. It happens more than a lot of people expect and unfortunately it's not just the reptiles that suffer but habitat and micro habitat are often destroyed by ruthless collectors.

In the early days of licensing in NSW a lot of people undertook the WIRES reptile handling courses specifically with the intent to poach animals from the wild and eventually maintain them as licenced animals.

George.


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## NickGeee (May 12, 2016)

DEPI seems to be very active recently, they where at my house the other month


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## Dragon_77 (May 12, 2016)

l myself have not had any inspection by any wildlife offices here in Victoria since November 1996, why l don't know and how do they know if l am or not keeping my record book upto-date or keeping any Reptiles illegaly, if they don't come and inspect my collection of Reptiles and record book, IMO they are to slack and just don't care one bit about how beautiful wildlife.


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## Wally (May 12, 2016)

I'd rather my licence fees and tax dollars went towards policing the illegal trade in reptiles as opposed to them knocking on my door to check for compliance.

Blaming relevant government departments for their shortcomings while ignoring the politicians who hold the purse strings and form policy is also shortsighted in my opinion.


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## pythoninfinite (May 13, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Plenty of grey nomads and other tourists who drive to these places to have adventures, site-see, fish, 4wd and have camping/ caravanning holidays. Very easy I expect to catch and then bring back to NSW , Vic etc in tubs in the caravan or camper - no one checks what you have in the caravan / camper / boat .
> 
> If they are inclined to be make a quick $ , don't care about protecting our native animals , and are able to catch the critters , it's open slather and the chances of being caught are probably very small.



Actually, unless you use a back road, the chances of having your vehicles searched by Ag Dept and allied authorities when entering WA are pretty high - they have a large facility and a lot of staff at the border on the Nullarbor, looking for fruit, drugs, guns and wildlife. Similarly, vehicles are searched when entering WA from the NT in the Kimberley. The last time I drove to WA (2003) we were stopped at the border, I had reptiles with the appropriate WA & NSW permits, but still had to unload the entire car while they did their work and wait while they confirmed the validity of my permits with head office in Perth. This searching was happening to all other vehicles at the time. More of an inconvenience than a problem, but I'm guessing they might get a few herps from those who aren't really aware of the regulations - those with a serious interest in smuggling wouldn't do it by road in a private vehicle.

Jamie

- - - Updated - - -



Dragon_77 said:


> l myself have not had any inspection by any wildlife offices here in Victoria since November 1996, why l don't know and how do they know if l am or not keeping my record book upto-date or keeping any Reptiles illegaly, if they don't come and inspect my collection of Reptiles and record book, IMO they are to slack and just don't care one bit about how beautiful wildlife.



Les, it's not about your hero status with the Australian wildlife authorities - that's a topic for another thread. We all know you're the Batman of Australian herpetology, striking fear into the hearts of all Aussie keepers. I'm sure your record books are picture perfect, so no need to waste taxpayers money in sending a team to check them out!


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## kingofnobbys (May 13, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> Actually, unless you use a back road, the chances of having your vehicles searched by Ag Dept and allied authorities when entering WA are pretty high - they have a large facility and a lot of staff at the border on the Nullarbor, looking for fruit, drugs, guns and wildlife. Similarly, vehicles are searched when entering WA from the NT in the Kimberley. The last time I drove to WA (2003) we were stopped at the border, I had reptiles with the appropriate WA & NSW permits, but still had to unload the entire car while they did their work and wait while they confirmed the validity of my permits with head office in Perth. This searching was happening to all other vehicles at the time. More of an inconvenience than a problem, but I'm guessing they might get a few herps from those who aren't really aware of the regulations - those with a serious interest in smuggling wouldn't do it by road in a private vehicle.
> 
> Jamie
> 
> ...



Must have really cracked down , last long adventure 4x4 camping fishing road trip we took NSW to WA and back again (virtually circumnavigated Australia) we were never stopped and never had the Pajero searched either entering WA or leaving it , took the main roads in both cases. There were a LOT of campervans, caravaners and other grey nomads on the road at the time too.
Good thing the only reptiles I captured were those I took snaps off usually from a distance using either a 70-200mm telezoom or 300mm telephoto and were only caught on Fuji film.


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## eipper (May 16, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> Actually, unless you use a back road, the chances of having your vehicles searched by Ag Dept and allied authorities when entering WA are pretty high - they have a large facility and a lot of staff at the border on the Nullarbor, looking for fruit, drugs, guns and wildlife. Similarly, vehicles are searched when entering WA from the NT in the Kimberley. The last time I drove to WA (2003) we were stopped at the border, I had reptiles with the appropriate WA & NSW permits, but still had to unload the entire car while they did their work and wait while they confirmed the validity of my permits with head office in Perth. This searching was happening to all other vehicles at the time. More of an inconvenience than a problem, but I'm guessing they might get a few herps from those who aren't really aware of the regulations - those with a serious interest in smuggling wouldn't do it by road in a private vehicle.
> 
> Jamie
> 
> ...




Maybe Les will get in trouble for having flavirufus in captivity- considering that only gouldii is the legal subspecies accordingly to the schedules......better dob yourself in LES.


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## GBWhite (May 16, 2016)

eipper said:


> Maybe Les will get in trouble for having flavirufus in captivity- considering that only gouldii is the legal subspecies accordingly to the schedules......better dob yourself in LES.



Don't think he needs to dob himself in Scott. I've heard on the grape vine that there's plenty of dobing going on by people who are trying to get into the backsides of the authorities.

Regards 

George


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## HiramAbiff (May 16, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> Actually, unless you use a back road, the chances of having your vehicles searched by Ag Dept and allied authorities when entering WA are pretty high - they have a large facility and a lot of staff at the border on the Nullarbor, looking for fruit, drugs, guns and wildlife. Similarly, vehicles are searched when entering WA from the NT in the Kimberley. The last time I drove to WA (2003) we were stopped at the border, I had reptiles with the appropriate WA & NSW permits, but still had to unload the entire car while they did their work and wait while they confirmed the validity of my permits with head office in Perth. This searching was happening to all other vehicles at the time. More of an inconvenience than a problem, but I'm guessing they might get a few herps from those who aren't really aware of the regulations - those with a serious interest in smuggling wouldn't do it by road in a private vehicle.
> 
> Jamie



Too bad you didn't learn the difference between perthensis and stimsoni while you were there. :lol:


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## Elite_Reptiles (May 16, 2016)

HiramAbiff said:


> Too bad you didn't learn the difference between perthensis and stimsoni while you were there. :lol:



Pmsl... Oh that is GOLD HiramAbiff


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## CrazyNut (May 16, 2016)

This kind of thing really lights my fuse! I hate the idea that some people don't show any respect or decency towards our native wildlife! The only thing those people care about is making the biggest profit with the least amount of effort! This is what really slows the growth of our hobby - we get a bad reputation because of a few of these utter morons and people start to look down upon us!


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## pythoninfinite (May 17, 2016)

Elite_Reptiles said:


> Pmsl... Oh that is GOLD HiramAbiff



INCREDIBLY funny, I pmsl too! The Biffo is back! The interesting thing is that I'm a West Australian, worked at the WA Museum for most of my working life, and first kept both A. perthensis and A. stimsoni (then generally known as Liasis childreni) in 1969... It would be a fair bet that you sensitive little souls weren't even born then, let alone understand the complexities and importance of binomial nomenclature - please tell me if I'm wrong, or feel free to contact your "lawyers." But I do have trouble making an initial ID until the photos are re-coloured appropriately, especially if I can't do a scale count.

Jamie


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## BredliFreak (May 17, 2016)

Relax Jamie, we all know that you're the Christ of the hobby, you were around before all us and know everything in your omniscientness and if we sin against you we shall burn in hell 

Sorry Jamie I just had to copy your insult and use it against you :lol:

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I'm going to get some popcorn, HiramAbiff and pythoninfinite are my favourite rivals, like Batman and Superman, except more exciting and educated


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## pythoninfinite (May 17, 2016)

HiramAbiff exciting and educated??? Where on earth did you get that idea BF? I really am just kidding HA... I was led into that by BF... I couldn't resist. Probably didn't have enough red wine in the weekend. Luckily I've developed a very thick skin after years of dealing with the dregs of the reptile world...

Jamie


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## Elite_Reptiles (May 17, 2016)

Maybe he should add BC to the front of pythoninfinite 




BredliFreak said:


> Relax Jamie, we all know that you're the Christ of the hobby, you were around before all us and know everything in your omniscientness and if we sin against you we shall burn in hell
> 
> Sorry Jamie I just had to copy your insult and use it against you :lol:
> 
> ...


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## pythoninfinite (May 17, 2016)

Elite_Reptiles said:


> Maybe he should add BC to the front of pythoninfinite



How very Old Testament of you ER...

J


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## stencorp69 (May 17, 2016)

Can't understand why anyone would want to smuggle the animals in the pictures - they are readily available for interstate or for export from WA and have a street value less than the reported black market value.


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## NickGeee (May 17, 2016)

stencorp69 said:


> Can't understand why anyone would want to smuggle the animals in the pictures - they are readily available for interstate or for export from WA and have a street value less than the reported black market value.


Whoever poached them most likely was on a herp trip anyway, I suppose they might have thought it would be a good idea to plunder some herps to make a buck on the side...


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## BredliFreak (May 17, 2016)

Yeah, probably. I still haven't found out what the goanna at the top of the page is :|


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## RoryBreaker (May 18, 2016)

Yaaawn...................

I remember the days when someone would post a news article like I did and the thread would go in the direction of subtle innuendo as to who the perpetrators of the crime were. Then mates of the ones fingered would step in to promote what a good chaps they are and say its the law that's to blame.

If all the rumours floating around the hobby of late are true, the authorities have been kicking some goals lately and more headlines will follow for sure.


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## BredliFreak (May 18, 2016)

RoryBreaker said:


> Yaaawn...................
> 
> I remember the days when someone would post a news article like I did and the thread would go in the direction of subtle innuendo as to who the perpetrators of the crime were. Then mates of the ones fingered would step in to promote what a good chaps they are and say its the law that's to blame.
> 
> If all the rumours floating around the hobby of late are true, the authorities have been kicking some goals lately and more headlines will follow for sure.



Yeah, this thread got off topic sooooo quickly. It's good that the authorities are finally getting off their butts and acting, hopefully this hobby will be regulated in a fairer way in the future.

Please TRY to stay on topic because before long we will end up with another *****fight, and I know I won't stay out of it and I'll end up with some infractions :twisted:


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## BrownHash (May 18, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Yeah, probably. I still haven't found out what the goanna at the top of the page is :|


Its a _Varanus storri.
_


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## Waterrat (May 18, 2016)

For what it's worth. 
This is a pygmy stimsons from NQ 

.


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## Stuart (May 18, 2016)

Gentlemen, lets avoid the need to close another good thread please. Subtle jabs and jokes at each others expense can be tolerated as we all wear big boy pants (I hope) but ruining a thread because a point needs to be made is not necessary.

Stu


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## Bluetongue1 (May 18, 2016)

Definitely agree with BrownHash that it is _Varanus storri_. Interestingly, this species is not found exclusively in WA. So why use that reptile in the photo... I don’t know. 

What I do know is that there is certainly nothing new about WA reptiles being poached. Just look at the number of WA endemics, or locality forms, legally in the hobby over east... and the length of time they have been available. There are those who have been making regular visits to WA for many years, others who plan a one-off trip for the purpose of collecting and yet others who decide while holidaying here, to do a bit of collecting to defray costs. 

The effect of poaching of reptiles in WA is not significant in terms of numbers taken. Road-kills account for heaps more and most populations are resilient enough that this has no lasting effects. However, destruction of vulnerable habitat, most particularly that which takes tens or hundreds or more years to recover, such exfoliated slabs on a rock outcrop, can have a devastating effect on local populations. The destruction of whatever percentage of the habitat means at least an equivalent reduction in population size. The actual reduction is, in fact, a lot worse. When a habitat is fragmented, the places to take safe refuge are fragmented. Hence, the ability to safely forage for and locate food, the capacity to locate a mate, the safe dispersal of young, and the like are severely impacted. This result in a very much greater reduction in the local population and may even see the remaining animals of that population crash completely. 

I have seen a number of photos of destroyed rock outcrops in WA’s wheatbelt that were attributed to poachers. Those with basically all moveable rocks flipped over, many of which were broken, were clearly the results of unethical collectors. Others, with rocks thrown and smashed into smaller pieces (requiring considerable effort on behalf of the perpetrator) or larger slabs that had been hit with something like a sledge hammer to fracture them, are more likely the result of pure vandalism. Neither is acceptable. But when you know what lives there and what it needs to survive, and you still destroy it make a quick buck, that to me is a much more heinous crime than someone mindlessly taking out misdirected emotions or frustrations on what they consider to be ‘lifeless objects’.


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## kingofnobbys (May 18, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> The effect of poaching of reptiles in WA is not significant in terms of numbers taken. Road-kills account for heaps more and most populations are resilient enough that this has no lasting effects. However, destruction of vulnerable habitat, most particularly that which takes tens or hundreds or more years to recover, such exfoliated slabs on a rock outcrop, can have a devastating effect on local populations. The destruction of whatever percentage of the habitat means at least an equivalent reduction in population size. The actual reduction is, in fact, a lot worse. When a habitat is fragmented, the places to take safe refuge are fragmented. Hence, the ability to safely forage for and locate food, the capacity to locate a mate, the safe dispersal of young, and the like are severely impacted. This result in a very much greater reduction in the local population and may even see the remaining animals of that population crash completely.
> 
> I have seen a number of photos of destroyed rock outcrops in WA’s wheatbelt that were attributed to poachers. Those with basically all moveable rocks flipped over, many of which were broken, were clearly the results of unethical collectors. Others, with rocks thrown and smashed into smaller pieces (requiring considerable effort on behalf of the perpetrator) or larger slabs that had been hit with something like a sledge hammer to fracture them, are more likely the result of pure vandalism. Neither is acceptable. But when you know what lives there and what it needs to survive, and you still destroy it make a quick buck, that to me is a much more heinous crime than someone mindlessly taking out misdirected emotions or frustrations on what they consider to be ‘lifeless objects’.


I've been in the Pilbara and Kimberley regions and was appalled by the cowboy mentality of the miners and rural landowners (mostly cattle there) , I agree , poaching of native fauna (reptiles in particular) has a very small impact on the indigenous populations of these animals compared with the effects of feral animals (pigs, cats, dogs and soon cane toads), roadkill, and clearing and mine ops.
As does the destruction of sensitive habitat for a quick buck (mostly development of mines and mine-camps).


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## Wally (May 18, 2016)

Whether it's a snake on a plane from Europe or America or one of our own nicked from it's home the hobby will continue to provide a market for the unscrupulous. Sadly......


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## Sam123 (May 19, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Yeah, probably. I still haven't found out what the goanna at the top of the page is :|


This may be wrong but it looks like a ridge tailed monitor to me


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## Bluetongue1 (May 20, 2016)

[MENTION=42083]Sam123[/MENTION], it does look like an Ackie, which what I assume is what you are saying here. Both _V. acanthurus _and _V. storri _are 'ridge-tailed monitors' and look quite similar. However, the animal pictured in the article lacks the well defined pale-edged dark eye-stripe from nostril to forelimb and stripes on the neck found in Ackies but not in Storr's. It also has a pale band down the middle of the back, which can occur in Storr’s but not Ackies.


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## Sam123 (May 20, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> @Sam123, it does look like an Ackie, which what I assume is what you are saying here. Both _V. acanthurus _and _V. storri _are 'ridge-tailed monitors' and look quite similar. However, the animal pictured in the article lacks the well defined pale-edged dark eye-stripe from nostril to forelimb and stripes on the neck found in Ackies but not in Storr's. It also has a pale band down the middle of the back, which can occur in Storr’s but not Ackies.


 Yeah im aware :/ mind wasnt thinking when I typed, however thanks for correcting me


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## Bluetongue1 (May 20, 2016)

I wasn't meaning to correct you. It was just that I used the term ridge-tailed monitors when constructing my reply and then realised you had actually used that as the common name for ackies - which is what they called for a long, long time. I should have changed what I wrote and not just added the first line and put the inverted commas into the second. Sorry about that.


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## Sam123 (May 20, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I wasn't meaning to correct you. It was just that I used the term ridge-tailed monitors when constructing my reply and then realised you had actually used that as the common name for ackies - which is what they called for a long, long time. I should have changed what I wrote and not just added the first line and put the inverted commas into the second. Sorry about that.


Nah its all fine, we all make mistakes


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