# Another drive and ID lol



## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

There must be something about the weather atm that our drunk friends love (legless... get it? No? Wow tough crowd!). Another Burtons in a completely different area. This one was in Kakadu, from that side they seem to have a more prominent white stripe. 

















I also found this fella back in Arnhem land, gave me a great big cotton bo... lol. I'm really ashamed to be asking for an ID on it, i just can't pick it. I really want it to be a mulga, it looks mulgaish to me. Smaller eye, minimal markings between head scales, no streaks on the nape and a bit over 1.2m. But true mulgas are pretty rare out here now, it didn't have a mulga attitude, not all weigelis have streaks on the nape and it is about the size of a large weigeli.


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## jordanmulder (Oct 26, 2011)

to be honest I've never looked into it before but could someone explain the difference between p.australis p.weigeli?
thanks I realy appreciate it!


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## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

Two different species of the black snakes. Main difference is in the size, weigeli's are also known as pygmy king browns.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

Exciting find, you lucky bugger! Looks very much like one of my guys?!


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## jordanmulder (Oct 26, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Two different species of the black snakes. Main difference is in the size, weigeli's are also known as pygmy king browns.


Realy so that's the only difference? So if that was the only difference shouldn't they be a subspecies of Australis? judging by their scientific name they aren't, or are they? 
Sorry for the newb questions.


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## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

It really does doesn't it! I think i need an Eipper or the likes to put my mind at ease though.

No it's not the only difference. They aren't a sub species but they are most likely a species complex that still needs some work. I think they were described in the early 2000's.



jordanmulder said:


> Realy so that's the only difference? So if that was the only difference shouldn't they be a subspecies of Australis? judging by their scientific name they aren't, or are they?
> Sorry for the newb questions.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

I'd agree, the only correctly I.D'd Weigeli I've seen were from Groote and it had streaks and an olive complexion (so completely different from a mainland P W). Looks promising, though.


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 26, 2011)

I'd call that as a Mulga.


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## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks Jonno!


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

Lets hope this fella avoids the toads.


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## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

Well it's two in a bit over two months. This one has avoided the toads for a while, not sure how long they take to grow but it would have to be around the 2 year mark... hopefully they are starting to develop different taste buds!


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## SteveNT (Oct 26, 2011)

Over 6 months in the Kalkaringi area I never saw an adult KB, only a few juvies. Found 2 dead adults both with a toad in the gob.


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## Eddie2257 (Oct 26, 2011)

The p.weigeli was found by Richard Wells and Ross Welington in 1987. and the main difference is the size with a p.weigeli getting to about 5 - 6ft and the p.australis getting much larger.
Eddie...


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## waruikazi (Oct 26, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> Over 6 months in the Kalkaringi area I never saw an adult KB, only a few juvies. Found 2 dead adults both with a toad in the gob.



How big were your juvies?

And toads all the way down to kal? That's devastating!


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## kawasakirider (Oct 26, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> Over 6 months in the Kalkaringi area I never saw an adult KB, only a few juvies. Found 2 dead adults both with a toad in the gob.



There must be some savvy snakes out there if they are making it to breeding age without eating a toad. Surely they would have come in contact with them in the time it took them to mature?


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> There must be some savvy snakes out there if they are making it to breeding age without eating a toad. Surely they would have come in contact with them in the time it took them to mature?



My bet is that if they were hungry enough, I couldn't see why a toad wouldn't be on the menu, unfortunately. It would be interesting to see if these "savvy snakes" would eat a toad if offered in a captive environment. Captive bred animals seem to be real pigs. Mine even eat paper towel if for some reason I skip a feed!


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## kawasakirider (Oct 26, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> My bet is that if they were hungry enough, I couldn't see why a toad wouldn't be on the menu, unfortunately. It would be interesting to see if these "savvy snakes" would eat a toad if offered in a captive environment. Captive bred animals seem to be real pigs. Mine even eat paper towel if for some reason I skip a feed!



It's just strange that some seem to avoid them, while others gobble them up. I can't imagine the ones that make it to breeding age have never come across a toad while they were hungry. I've never been there, though. Is the toad population relatively low?

How did you get the tea towel out of its mouth? Did you have to open its mouth by hand?


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

I told him he was a bad boy and to drop! Elapids often regurge when harrassed, like pythons, I guess.


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 26, 2011)

Nice photo Richard! I'll try and dig up one I have of a Mozambique Spitting Cobra trying to eat a cloth that's soaked in methylated spirits.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 26, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Nice photo Richard! I'll try and dig up one I have of a Mozambique Spitting Cobra trying to eat a cloth that's soaked in methylated spirits.



I'd like to see that! My guess is that the Top Ender tried to swallow the paper because it had traces of blood from a prey item, but methylated spirits just sounds bizzare?!


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 26, 2011)

_*Waruikazi.*_ That definitely looks like a Mulga (_Pseudechis australis_) - the boofy head, the thick, slightly flattened body and the pale base colour to the scales. It appears to have two temporal scales but the grass obscures where the dividion would be in each picture.

The Dwarf Mulga has been split off due to smaller maximum size and differences in DNA. They have yet to look at the large number of existing museum species to ascertain which are _P. weigli_ and so determine an accurate distribution and relative abundance.

*Kawasakirider*. Because frogs (along with reptiles) are a common element in the diet of mulgas and the larger snakes can take on adult toads, which are more poisonous than the toadlets, they are one species that has dropped dramatically in numbers following toad invasion of their habitat. However, if the toads manage to get away from a snake that is attempting to eat it and the snake survives, it can learn not to eat toads. This has been observed with a number of different species. The downside, of course, is that this behaviour is not passed on to the young.

Blue


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## Eddie2257 (Oct 26, 2011)

quick fact the p. weigli is named afer John Wiegle who owns the Australian Reptile Park and Snake Ranch
Eddie...


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 27, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> My bet is that if they were hungry enough, I couldn't see why a toad wouldn't be on the menu, unfortunately. It would be interesting to see if these "savvy snakes" would eat a toad if offered in a captive environment. Captive bred animals seem to be real pigs. Mine even eat paper towel if for some reason I skip a feed


Unbelievable! A snake with table manners... actually wipes its mouth after eating. Very impressive!


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## Nephrurus (Oct 28, 2011)

If you picked it up you would have been able to check if the sub-caudals were all single or divided. 
Single: weigeli
some divided: australis. 

Unfortunately it's not exactly hard and fast, although just about all "weigeli" (kimberley species) i've seen have minimal divided sub-caudals and the australis have quite a few divideds. COmbine that with observations on colour, size, etc and you've got a pretty good idea which species it is. 

I'd call it australis. Nice one!

Here are some kimberley mulga (north Kimberley) to compare. 

Pseudechis australis-8660.jpg photo - Henry Cook photos at pbase.com

Pseudechis australis-8657.jpg photo - Henry Cook photos at pbase.com

and a freshly roadkilled one

_DSC5913.jpg photo - Henry Cook photos at pbase.com


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## waruikazi (Oct 28, 2011)

I usually make a point of not touching the dangerous ones unless i have too. 

I was always leaning more to the mulga side of things, to have a few others agree confirms it for me. 

Pretty stoked to have found the little blighter, my herping career is almost complete in the top end now. Only 2 more species to find!


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## SteveNT (Oct 28, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> How big were your juvies?
> 
> And toads all the way down to kal? That's devastating!



About half a meterish.

They are into the desert country now, long way south of Larjamanu, so they are into the central catchment. 

The folk in Kalkaringi/ Dagaragu have a use for them. If cockroaches are overwhelming the house they bring in a couple of toads. Two days later no cockies! Last step bash and release toads.

Which 2 species?


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm guessing Taipans and Oenpelli's as his last two species...


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## SteveNT (Oct 28, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> I'm guessing Taipans and Oenpelli's as his last two species...



I'll wager he hasn't found all the blind snakes yet. There are big mobs of types.

And he lives in Oenpelli, surely he's come across one by now! 

And now is definately NOT the time to find taipans, they're breeding, they're large and they are very territorial. I've been chased twice (once over a considerable distance) and I dont recommend it!


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## waruikazi (Oct 31, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> I'll wager he hasn't found all the blind snakes yet. There are big mobs of types.
> 
> And he lives in Oenpelli, surely he's come across one by now!
> 
> And now is definately NOT the time to find taipans, they're breeding, they're large and they are very territorial. I've been chased twice (once over a considerable distance) and I dont recommend it!



I've seen 14 of those pythons and 2 tais, but they were all at Darwin museum in barrels of spirits lol. 

Maybe one day i'll find some live ones.


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