# Lest We Forget



## soulweaver (Apr 21, 2006)

To all those who have fallen, to all those who have served.

Lest We Forget. 


Yes anzac is not until tuesday, but our service men and women should be remembered all year round, not just focused upon for one day a year.


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## krusty (Apr 21, 2006)

that is so true souly .....good stuff


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## mickousley (Apr 21, 2006)

well said i will be at dawn service in wollongong
how many other members go to dawn service
Mick


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## FAY (Apr 21, 2006)

I have so much respect for our service men and women.
I don't have any relatives or personally know anyone who has been in any war. Obviously know of friends of friends or rels of friends.
Am I alone?


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## inthegrass (Apr 21, 2006)

i go to the dawn service every year in penrith. have only missed one in twenty years.
cheers.


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## AntaresiaLady (Apr 22, 2006)

I haven't been to a dawn service since my dad stopped doing them (He was in the reserves, and they always get called to do the dawn service standing in the freezing cold for hours on end) 

Every time I hear 'The Last Post' I get teary eyed. Does it every time. 

One of these years I'll take my daughter to one, to teach her about the sacrifice those who went to war made for us and our freedoms. 
She's seen all the memorials here in 'Kings Park', but I'd like to take her to a dawn service. 

My grandfathers all fought in various wars, and my uncle went to Vietnam, so we have family history within the armed services. Its always a special time in our family.


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## soulweaver (Apr 22, 2006)

I was watching the footy last night, and the A.F.L always pays respect to the ANZACS during this round of football but playing the last post at every game before the game. What really Pi$$es me off though it when the last post is played and some tool yells out when you should be oberving a minute silence............if it was up to me, that means dis-respect and that person should be deported!!


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## yommy (Apr 22, 2006)

sacrifice is what moulded this country. 
War isn't a nice thing but some of us have to put our hands up and follow in the foot steps of our fathers. 
That's what makes Australia such a great place. 
And it's great to see all the grand kids and families marching for our lost soldiers from all 3 services, 
yes, 'Lest We Forget'


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## pythonkisses (Apr 23, 2006)

kids and i go and march with my father on every anzac day and sit around and chat to all the anzacs and listen to all there storys we love it and the kids love seeing all the pics and medals
which is great seeing the kids get into it all.


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## soulweaver (Apr 23, 2006)

BargainBucket said:


> But if all the anzacs were to get up and walk the roads of aus today, do you think they would be proud of where we are at, or do you think they would say "damn, what a waste".
> 
> Seriously, if they were to see what australia is today, i personally think they would all lay down there guns and all agree that their lives (that they lost so proudly) arent worth the country we live in today.
> 
> ...



There is a little word you need to learn, and its called respect. If you want to make bold comments like that, at least have a clue and fact to back up what you are saying. 

Yes a lot of ANZAC day is based around the country we live in today, but its more then that, ANZAC day is reflection, reflection of all who have served, from the boar war right through to conflicts today, like IRAQ. 

If you want to discuss distaste for our country today then you should actually go and talk to some R.S.L members who say we live in a great place, and are glad they served under the Australian flag. You should talk to them and realise we could easily be a Communist country, we could be part of the Japanese empire. 

If you really are of that opinion, then the best thing for you and the country in which WE live is for you to go somewhere where you are happy. Thats why man invented planes.


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## FAY (Apr 27, 2006)

I have only been overseas a couple of times and a long time ago. One of my ex bosses had (before he came to Australia) worked and lived in a lot of different countries around the world and told us that Australia was the best country to live and work in the whole world and if we had experienced what he did then we would realise this too..
The ANZACS fought for freedom and peace for Australia and this is why we don't appreciate those radical muslims dictating to us how we should live OUR lives!!


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## yommy (Apr 27, 2006)

Bucket your comments aren't even worthy of a response. 
Good on ya soulweaver.


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## Spike14 (Apr 27, 2006)

good on ya souly, and bucket what u think they would prefer the way it is now or us bieng over ruled by japan?


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## Vat69 (Apr 27, 2006)

Um, Spike14 how much war history have you done? There were no plans to invade Australia.
*Sorry to be a little off-topic but I thought that needed to be said.


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

Im sure bucket is right, i bet there are ex-service men & women out there who have that exact opinion.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

yes, but compared to some alternatives, do you think it is that bad?


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## NinaPeas (Apr 27, 2006)

My dad fought in the Vietnam war when he was 19, and he proudly marches every year.

Thankfully, it didn't mess him up as much as some other men and women, but when you hear all the stories first hand, it makes you very appreciative of what they all went through so we can live the comfy lives we do now!


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## Nome (Apr 27, 2006)

Moreliaman said:


> Im sure bucket is right, i bet there are ex-service men & women out there who have that exact opinion.



You mean where you live or in Australia?


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

I agree, you will find in every Western nation that there will be plenty of ex service people who despair at what they see now and wonder why they 'bothered'. I have heard all the talk of how the Allies fought the Japanese and how they committed such atrocities on Allied soldiers but how we happily fill out houses full of Japanese appliances, drive Japanese cars and some (not me) worship Japanese motorcycles. 
I am a firm believer in moving on but I can certainly understand how those old soldiers would feel. 



Moreliaman said:


> Im sure bucket is right, i bet there are ex-service men & women out there who have that exact opinion.


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## Spike14 (Apr 27, 2006)

> Um, Spike14 how much war history have you done? There were no plans to invade Australia.
> *Sorry to be a little off-topic but I thought that needed to be said.


 Kokoda . . . .


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

Nome said:


> Moreliaman said:
> 
> 
> > Im sure bucket is right, i bet there are ex-service men & women out there who have that exact opinion.
> ...


All over the world, but i bet america more than others !!!
If called i would have refused service in the iraq war.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

is the distaste ppl are talking about speculation? or is there some fact to it that can back-up claims?

morelia man are you referring more to the vietnam conflict, rather then say ww2? when talking about the yanks?


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2006)

> Yes anzac is not until tuesday, but our service men and women should be remembered all year round, not just focused upon for one day a year.



I totally agree SW if it wasn't for their sacrifice we would not enjoy the lifestyle that we do.. 

My father served in WW2 for Australia and my current girlfriend served in the Austraklian Navy in active duty in the middle east back in the early 1990's when that conflict began... and was proud to serve her country... and is proud to be an Australian.. 

If people don't like the way Australia is... then buy a ticket and get the hell out of our country.. we don't want the likes of you here anyway..


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## Vat69 (Apr 27, 2006)

Spike14 said:


> > Um, Spike14 how much war history have you done? There were no plans to invade Australia.
> > *Sorry to be a little off-topic but I thought that needed to be said.
> 
> 
> Kokoda . . . .



Again, how much academic study have you done? I'm yet to be informed from a number of credible sources that there was an official plan for Japan to invade and inhabit Australia.


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## Spike14 (Apr 27, 2006)

dude, it was all over the news with the guy that told the kokoda story to make the official movie , japs wanted to invaid northern australia


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## Vat69 (Apr 27, 2006)

Ok, movies aren't historical documents. They are always inacurate. Directors are not historians.*deletes rest of rant* I'm a history major at uni. I've been over the wars more than once. I can't help myself but get anal. :lol: 
I'll leave it there :lol: :roll:


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## Spike14 (Apr 27, 2006)

ok get ur point but 1 last thing to say, the directo of the movie got it all from one of the men that faught on kokoda . . so most if it is mostlikely , yes i did say most, i havent seen the movie ..


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

colin, lol that is going to open a can of worms. 

but i agree, if the values that we as Australians have built are not the values in which you hold, then wouldn't it make sense to live in a country that you are happy with?

If you talk about service men not being happy when they returned to australia after ww1, well that is a hard issue to debate, as the nation was still being built, and we were still young, as well as federation. 

as for ww2, this changed a young nation, this was a time when women and men were more involved during war times. Either on the front, or in factorys working for the war effort. This shaped nations as women where now seen in a different light, but i still don't see the 2nd world war as being something men and women wouldn't be proud of to come back too.

but what the issue rasied was, the way things are seen today. They way things have moved, and the direction, or path they have taken. If there is disgust, i think it would of stemmed from the vets returning from vietnam. A serivce which a lot were conscripted to, and a welcome home which is actually more disgusting then anything.

This attitude has adapted itself to everything now, not in the sense that service women and men are spat on returning from the gulf, but in a way where the romance of 'seeing the world' and fighting for ones honour whilst serving your country, has dwindled, and any form of conflict should be avoided.

this is not saying that ww2 and ww1 people didn't want to see an end to conflict, its just the ideals behind conflict where shaped into a different light. 

i just don't think it is as black and white as stated thats all.


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## peterescue (Apr 27, 2006)

The plan at that stage(invasion 0f Sth Eastern Papua was to islolate Australia. SE Asia had been securedby the japanesse and securing the pennisular would have given them a base for the Sth Pacific with their supply lines secure from Japan to PNG. What steps would have been taken after that are open to discussion but with airstips secured in Port Moresby bombing of Brisbane and Sydney would have been able to take place. Invasion would more than likely followed.
It should also be pointed out that nobody new that the Japanese would stop at Port Moresby.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

Vat69, i agree with you about there was no offical plan. Although my study over the last 14 years as mainly been world war one, and the only real battle i have gone into great depth during ww2 is the battle for russia, i can understand what spike means. 

Japan did set foot on Australian shores, and because of this picture is painted that they tried to invade Australia.

Spike, the bombings at darwin,a nd the conflicts north where more aimed at the U.S. Japnas enter into the war was over trade agreements with the U.S, and one there big ideas was to fight the U.S and draw up a peace treaty that got them their trade agreement back. 

but like i said, i can understand where you are coming from, and why this idea painted in Australians minds. If there is information to support it though, i would be very interersted to see.


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

Soulweaver, I wouldn’t call it speculation....ask some ex-service soldiers,...........Not sure if you can place the Vietnamese conflict in the same category as ww2 , after all that was a war that America intervened in (as they usually do.....america more than others yes, because they seem to enjoy invading small countries more than others...esp when they need oil !). 
Perhaps we should also remember the german & japanese service men & women who lost their lives too.


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## Spike14 (Apr 27, 2006)

got ya :wink:


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## NinaPeas (Apr 27, 2006)

We should remember ALL the lives that have been lost in wars! Not only the serving men and women, but all the innocent victims and children around the world.

ANZAC day isn't only about remembering Australian service men and women...


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

Indeed it isn't, by definition it is about remembering servicemen and women from New Zealand as well.



NinaPeas said:


> ANZAC day isn't only about remembering Australian service men and women...


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

errmm.....what exactly does ANZAC stand for then ??.....Australia...new zeland,...im guessing thats the first bit ! whats the rest
??
But im with the same view as nina...if your going to pay respect to people who died during war then you pay your respects to every person, regardless of race or religion. And im sure not everyone wanted to fight....faced with the choice of going to the front line to fight or being shot on the spot if you refused !!


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## NinaPeas (Apr 27, 2006)

And all the orphaned children from Vietnam (sorry, know a bit about this one, more than the rest).

A lot of the troops (from everywhere) had relations with many of the vietnemese women, who all fell pregnant but couldn't afford to look after the babies, so were abandoned. There are just so many victims of war


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Apr 27, 2006)

> errmm.....what exactly does ANZAC stand for then ??.....Australia...new zeland,...im guessing thats the first bit ! whats the rest


literaly it means an autralian or nz soldier i spose,
it stands for 'australia and new zealand army corps'
LEST WE FORGET


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2006)

> moreliaman (UK) wrote: after all that was a war that America intervened in (as they usually do.....america more than others yes, because they seem to enjoy invading small countries more than others



Not as much as England :wink: Wasn't England one of the biggest war mongering races on the planet? invading countless smaller nations and islands "in the name of the british commonwealth" much more so than America... more in line with Hitler in my opinion... and did'nt the English through their mismanagement end up sending our troops to Gallipolli to be slaughtered? Didn't Hitler get a foothold in Europe to the point that it was difficult to stop him because of the spineless actions of what was his name? Chamberlain? and then WW2 started? 

my last word on this thread is ANZAC day is for Australians and New Zealanders... and all people should show some respect to the fallen....


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## Parko (Apr 27, 2006)

Since Japan has come up in this conversation thought people maybe interested to know Japan was also at Gallipoli, as our ALLIES though. They were our Allies in WW1 and played a role to help fight the Germans, they lost around 400 soldiers in WW1. After WW1 when they wished to march alongside the allies to show respect for their fallen soldiers they were refused, they were shown great disrespect and not seen fit to march alongside the white skinned allies. Relations soured from then on.... If you dont believe this do a little research and you may be surprised.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

What is ANZAC? ANZAC means so much, on so many different levels. Like i stated earlier, WW1 was when Australia was finding itself as a nation. New to federation, and young compared to other countries. ANZAC does mean 'Australian and New Zealand Army Corp' but its much more then that. This was the first real battle that Australians had gone too since federation. Yes there was the boar war, but we were already there before 1901, so it wasn't quite the same. 

Gallipoli created the Australian icon, it painted us forever into history, it helped shaped the nation and who we are today.

ANZAC is as Australian as the Sydney Harbour bridge, or the 'snags on the barbie'. Words can not describe what ANZAC means to a nation, but its images and its men and women who served it, should never be forgotten. 

without lessons we never learn, and these men and women who paid the ultimate price, have taught us so much, and should never be forgotten.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

Moreliaman said:


> errmm.....what exactly does ANZAC stand for then ??.....Australia...new zeland,...im guessing thats the first bit ! whats the rest
> ??
> But im with the same view as nina...if your going to pay respect to people who died during war then you pay your respects to every person, regardless of race or religion. And im sure not everyone wanted to fight....faced with the choice of going to the front line to fight or being shot on the spot if you refused !!



we do show respect for all, it happens every year, in the 11th month, on the 11th day, at the 11th hour. 

i am going to go out on a limb here and say that ANZAC day probably means more to Australia then Australia day does.


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

Colin said:


> > moreliaman (UK) wrote: after all that was a war that America intervened in (as they usually do.....america more than others yes, because they seem to enjoy invading small countries more than others
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He does have a point, England has invaded more countries then America to date.

Although Gallipoli shaped us as a nation, we must remeber who it was that sent us there. It was the same man who later became your war time prime minister in ww2. 

to england at the time we were a 'colony' and its funny when you read about ww1 history how much england achieved and how much the australians did. not bad for a colony i say ol' chap


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

you could be right colin......yes 100's of years ago when the british government (like alot of other countries at that time) were responsible for many cruel things...(i think youll find the romans were worse...depends how far you want to go back !!!! ).....but it was before i was born so sorry you cant really tar me with the same brush !.......so what part of the world do your relations originate from colin ?
I was walking around whilst america/uk illegally invaded iraq !


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## Moreliaman (Apr 27, 2006)

soulweaver said:


> He does have a point, England has invaded more countries then America to date.


He does yes, im not defending the british, but if the english had'nt.......... you would'nt be where you are right now !!
..........i spose you could all move out & give the whole island back to the aboriginals ! :wink: :lol:


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

Yes indeed 100's of years ago the British did indeed invade many countries on their way to building a huge empire but to bring that into the discussion is absurd, we are talking about modern times, many things have changed over the years. 



Moreliaman said:


> you could be right colin......yes 100's of years ago when the british government (like alot of other countries at that time) were responsible for many cruel things...(i think youll find the romans were worse...depends how far you want to go back !!!! ).....but it was before i was born so sorry you cant really tar me with the same brush !.......so what part of the world do your relations originate from colin ?
> I was walking around whilst america/uk/Australia illegally invaded iraq !


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

Moreliaman said:


> soulweaver said:
> 
> 
> > He does have a point, England has invaded more countries then America to date.
> ...



There is evidence to suggest that the aboriginals weren't here first either, so now what?


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

You mean the bridge built by an English company using 75% British steel based on the Hell Gate Bridge in New York ? :lol: :wink: 



soulweaver said:


> ANZAC is as Australian as the Sydney Harbour bridge, quote]


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

that was ment more as a icon, rather then materials. Would you rather me see ayres rock?


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

I'm not much into icons, too many things seem to be given that title nowadays including clothes hoists and lawn mowers :lol: But yes Uluru is better :wink: 



soulweaver said:


> that was ment more as a icon, rather then materials. Would you rather me see ayres rock?


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## soulweaver (Apr 27, 2006)

don't knock the hills hoist, i work for hills...................on second thoughts hills sucks


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## Retic (Apr 27, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## dino (Apr 27, 2006)

am i hearing right is someone saying that they are teaching in uni that japan was not going to invade australia 
just the fact that your a history student should tell you that you have so much to learn what your taught by one side is completely different to what you would be taught if you were a student in japan 
i have studied the war for almost 20 years and there is lots of evidence to say japan even had spies in australia at the time of the war ,the island i used to live on in the hawksberry river has a net work or concrete bunkers all over it built by the army to keep the japan army out of brookllyn there are more at berowra waters as well but they won't have that in the history books like so much more.
what do they think the mini jap subs in sydeny harbour were for (they wanted to trap our ships in sydney harbour so they could do here what they did in perl harbour).but they suffocated and left their subs not to far from the harbour bridge.


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## Moreliaman (Apr 28, 2006)

soulweaver said:


> Moreliaman said:
> 
> 
> > soulweaver said:
> ...



Well its still bad news im afraid...you'll all have to leave & then the wildlife will own australia !! :wink: (no we cant go back further & give it to the dinosaurs!) :lol:


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2006)

Im very disappointed in this thread. 
My grand fathers fought in Two world wars and my father was in Korea and Vietnam.
If you had been alive then Nina you would have seen his photo on the front page of the Adelaide (and Melbourne) newspaper for his work in getting clothing and food for Viet orphans. The ordeal scarred him. Returning to the orphange would reveal children who had been there days before had simply disappeared or died. My father was a career soldier but he is still effected by this.
Anzac days is to commemorate those who have fallen in war. It is a time to reflect. Not bicker about petty point scoring issues.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2006)

I apologise if my post offended you peronally morelia man... Anzac day and our veterans is something that I hold very dear to my heart.. and it brings a lot of emotion and anger up inside me when people start to or seem to be disrespecting what it stands for. 

It is still a sore point with me that when the japanese were coming to invade Australia and that England refused to come to our aid... in my opinion if America did not stop them when they did, then we would have been invaded and overun... That is why I defend America... they are not are perfect country (none are) but I feel that they get slagged too much by everyone... and the way I see it, Australia owes a great deal to that country... 

I realise my post was kinda personally directed at you, and I apologise to you and anyone else for any offense I may have given, but ask that you realise that this issue is an extremely emotional one for myself.. 

My ancestors were mainly from Scotland by the way and I won't go into that situation with the English further... but to say my brother in laws name is William Wallace :wink: 

Anyway dude... here's the olive branch... hope you take it and theres no hard feelings..


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## NinaPeas (Apr 28, 2006)

peterescue said:


> Im very disappointed in this thread.
> My grand fathers fought in Two world wars and my father was in Korea and Vietnam.
> If you had been alive then Nina you would have seen his photo on the front page of the Adelaide (and Melbourne) newspaper for his work in getting clothing and food for Viet orphans. The ordeal scarred him. Returning to the orphange would reveal children who had been there days before had simply disappeared or died. My father was a career soldier but he is still effected by this.
> Anzac days is to commemorate those who have fallen in war. It is a time to reflect. Not bicker about petty point scoring issues.



I'm sure my mum kept all the newspapers. Her and dad had been married 2 weeks before he went. 

yes, no more bickering!


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## Retic (Apr 28, 2006)

I think there are always 2 sides to a story, I think from what I understand far from refusing to come to the aid of Australia British troops were stretched to the limit in Europe.
Colin, being Scottish it is almost inbred in you to mistrust the English and that's fair enough, I think the feeling might be mutual :wink: 
In modern times the Americans it would seem have been responsible for starting more conflicts than any other nation and they invariably don't go well. Bear in mind I am not talking about the American people but it's leaders. They went to the aid of Kuwait for one reason only.....OIL. They invaded Iraq with help from the UK and Australia for one reason.....OIL. Now they are threatening Iran because they have the audacity to want nuclear power and just maybe bombs as well, once again the World Police think it is their place to step in.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2006)

Can we agree to disagree and let this debate rest....

It's not that I want to back away from an argument, but with a lot of these issues people have definite views and I can see the thread going in a direction not in the best interests of this website.. 

I joined this site becuase I love reptiles and wanted to gain information from others with a similar interest and also help them if I can. 

Some people have definite views about certain non herp related issues and when two immovable forces meet there are problems and possible conflicts between members. I don't think anyone really wants that to happen..

So in the interests of this website and all members... can we let these issues rest. 

Otherwise whats next on the reptile website agenda? muslims, religion and politics?

I made the previous post in attempt to diffuse this emotional issue, apologise for any offence my views may have caused anyone (but not apologise for my views) and try to move on from these volatile subjects and get back on track to things herp related. 

In my humble opinion everyone else should do the same..


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## Retic (Apr 28, 2006)

I agree except for the fact that it is an argument, healthy debate I think. I've never been one to get too worked up over something unless it is a personal attack but yes as you say when people have differing views it does often become heated.
I try to keep everything light and never serious. Lifes too short to get worked up about these issues. :lol:


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## Fuscus (Apr 28, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II


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## Moreliaman (May 6, 2006)

well boas said most of what I would have replied with so no point repeating it, I have nothing against American’s , its the government that causes the problems, likewise with the excuse for a government that gets elected here , I also hope I haven’t offended anyone, I would like to add that I have the utmost respect for those who were active in any conflict and the unfortunate who lost their lives (including obviously civilians) in every country...........the comment I made came from a conversation I had with a guy that had been in ww2 , he's under no illusion who he was fighting during ww2....Hitler...not the German people, but he told me the American government ignored several pleas from Europe to help with the war, they only got involved when the Japanese government decided to attack pearl harbour, he did mention them helping Australia but thinks they helped Australia mainly because it was much closer to Japan, a perfect place to launch attacks from. 
I just feel so sorry for the poor old guy because not only has he fought in a war, lost friends & relations, to top it off he has just lost his grandson to the Iraq conflict  and he believes his grandson died fighting for the American governments gain, and not for the freedom of the Iraqi people 

boa, I don’t think anyone should trust the English government even now, bunch of liars the lot of em :wink:  

Colin, I really don’t know why the hell you guys started calling us poms !! After 2 weeks in the sun I really think a cooked lobster would have been more appropriate than a round fruit...... guess it’s easier to say pom :wink:


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## soulweaver (May 6, 2006)

think this debate is over. 

i am locking this thread.


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