# Help! Which grout/cement/ mortar do i use for background???



## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

I need quick advice!

What type of cement/mortar do i use over the styrofoam of my background???
Is there a difference between types???
What did you guys use?


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## OLAY89 (Nov 6, 2011)

Use expanda foam while its wet u can shape it how u want


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## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

No to seal the background I need to render it before i paint it!


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## BigWillieStyles (Nov 6, 2011)

I believe I used tile grout. Does it really matter? Just stay clear of any with mold-inhibitors. Your going to seal it anyway though.


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## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

I don't know mine is called Mortar and its quite gritty and tried to make it slightly runny but all the gritt just stays together to its very wierd to spread??


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## nagini-baby (Nov 6, 2011)

ive used concrete (hated it) grout (loved it but bit pricey) and im using render atm (loving it) its cheap and sticks to the foam and covers well


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## Tassie97 (Nov 6, 2011)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/MudinRebels#p/u/4/cqLyxSfMRxw[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/MudinRebels#p/u/3/P3NpDkogIfg[/video]


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## Treg92 (Nov 6, 2011)

second the render, comes in a 20 kg bag for less than 20 bucks, and you just add water. nice consistency and good adhesion. failing that, go tile grout


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## J-A-X (Nov 6, 2011)

I'm with Treg, acrylic render. $10 for 20kg. It's easy to apply and gives a nice surface- not to rough.

And regarding the pondtite, it states dry overnight , so in warm weather a good 8 - 10 hours should suffice. 

Given the you are using it in a waterfall / pond situation make sure you read the instructions in regard to leaving it a week before filling with water and the cleaning of it BEFORE you use it


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## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

Would you say that the acrylic render is similar to that in the video of Lizard Landscpapes?
It almost looks like clay in that! And so easy to apply!

I attempted to "grout" a bit of my piece today but it was a horrible consistency all the grit stayed at the bottom and all the water was at the top.
I may as well have just applied wet sand.

Going to wait for it to dry cause it just dusts off with a dry paintbrush but what a pain in the ***!


Where do I get acrylic render from?
And Jax, I'll make sure it'll be washed and rewashed and rewashed numerous times before it goes anywhere near my gtp!


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## J-A-X (Nov 6, 2011)

If you've got water sitting on top then you added too much water to start with, did you follow some of the step by step threads on here regarding foam work? You need to add a bonding agent like bondall or a good PVA glue to the first few layers so it sticks to the foam and itself. Normally it's a 50:50 water : pva ratio then mix into the powder until you have a consistant mix, then the next few layers are thicker and you can decrease the pva. Think of cream LOL the first layer is normal pouring type cream, the next is thickened cream and the last is thick enough to hold on an upside down spoon 

Follow the directions on the pondtite for the rinsing regime and you will be fine

I got the acrylic render from bunnings , in the tradies area , where they keep the bags of cement. Any hardware shop should have it or be able to order it in for you


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## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

i got rid of all the excess water but from then on it was just like sand? 

If i get that acrylic render do i still need to add pva to it?

Thanks


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## J-A-X (Nov 6, 2011)

if your using mortar mix it doesn't surprise me that it's still like wet sand. 

Yes you need the bonding agent regardless of the type of coating you use, otherwise it won't stick to the foam.


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## briiiziii (Nov 6, 2011)

Ahhhhhh ok well i think I might get render cause I really dont like the mortar sandy texture!
So is the acrylic render and really smooth consistency?
Where can I get it and when i get it I'll add either PVA or bondall, which do you think is better?


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## mudgudgeon (Nov 6, 2011)

Bondall if just a brand name, it is PVA. There are different Bondall products for different purposes, so read the label.

It is also a good idea to paint the raw foam with PVA a couple of hours before grouting/rendering to prime the surface and help the grout/render bond to the foam.


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## J-A-X (Nov 6, 2011)

It's the stuff they render houses with, it doesn't dry super smooth/flat and look like a slate tile, more the texture of a bush rock, I found it easy to apply with a $2 paintbrush ( it won't be worth keeping) if you want it super smooth you could try adding a dash of dish liquid on the final coat and use some sort of trowel to smooth it off or use tile grout instead of render on the final coat, tile gout is a lot finer than the render and gives a smoother finish. If you check out my thread "on the home stretch" you'll see the look that the acrylic render gives. Make sure you get acrylic render... The 'non' acrylic stuff takes longer to dry.

I've used bondall and Woodworking glue, and I think the bondall is better in the foam to render adhesion. Bondall is designed to helps concrete bond with concrete when patching holes and applying render to brickwork


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## Tinky (Nov 7, 2011)

Render mixed with PVA, then use some oxide to get good colouration.

It can be a bit hit and miss to star off, but you will quickly get a feel for the right consistancy.

NB: One thing I always remind people starting out on making a creation. It will get poo'd on. So think about how you are going to clean it, (suggest making your rock wall/waterfall removable).


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## briiiziii (Nov 7, 2011)

Tinky said:


> Render mixed with PVA, then use some oxide to get good colouration.
> 
> It can be a bit hit and miss to star off, but you will quickly get a feel for the right consistancy.
> 
> NB: One thing I always remind people starting out on making a creation. It will get poo'd on. So think about how you are going to clean it, (suggest making your rock wall/waterfall removable).



Finally got it working for me this arvo 
I've made everything removable 
See the thread - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/huge-background-waterfall-guide-pic-173396/




Jaxrtfm said:


> It's the stuff they render houses with, it doesn't dry super smooth/flat and look like a slate tile, more the texture of a bush rock, I found it easy to apply with a $2 paintbrush ( it won't be worth keeping) if you want it super smooth you could try adding a dash of dish liquid on the final coat and use some sort of trowel to smooth it off or use tile grout instead of render on the final coat, tile gout is a lot finer than the render and gives a smoother finish. If you check out my thread "on the home stretch" you'll see the look that the acrylic render gives. Make sure you get acrylic render... The 'non' acrylic stuff takes longer to dry.
> 
> I've used bondall and Woodworking glue, and I think the bondall is better in the foam to render adhesion. Bondall is designed to helps concrete bond with concrete when patching holes and applying render to brickwork



Your DIY background looks absolutely incredible!!! I love it!
I ended up getting the acrylic render and adding PVA to it!
Worked alot better for me so it'll do 

I'm just wondering, how many layers of this do you recommend?
I dont want it to be too heavy or loose too much detail but I want it to be strong and durable and of course, waterproof once ive pondtited everything.
How many layers of acrylic render did you use on yours?


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## J-A-X (Nov 7, 2011)

4 layers in total, the trick is to not have fine detail, because you WILL lose it. I used pondtite on the horizontal surfaces for easy cleaning and tile and grout sealer on the vertical to stop pee soakage. Being what yours is just pondtite the whole thing, it will give it an all over wet look but it will still look good in yours. 

PS, thank you


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## briiiziii (Nov 7, 2011)

4 layers? 
Dammit 
Why do I see some people that dont even do the grouting stage?

I dont mind the wet look too much its just going to be wet all the time anyway haha

And no worries! Your efforts with that DIY project of yours have payed off!
Even if it did take as long as it did


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## J-A-X (Nov 8, 2011)

If you don't grout/render it there's no strength to it, for GTP you might get away with two, if your putting vines & branches in there. I've got Darwin's and they like climbing. 
If it weren't for the knee surgeries mine could have been completed quicker and I lost motivation with the continuos stop start, but I didn't want to do a dodgy job either (like you, I'm my own worst critic) 
Don't rush to get it done, you'll look at it every day and see where you went wrong like bits of it falling off because you didn't let it dry properly etc. patience is hard but it pays off


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## briiiziii (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm going to leave it a week at least for each layer of grout to dry  It doesnt have to be ready until quite a while as my little GTP is still yellow and only about 30 cm long! haha
I'm thinking by the time I have everything done, I'll only be able to put the background in there as I dont want my GTP falling/drowning in a massive water bowl (the waterfall)
So I'm not worried about time I just cant wait to see it done hahaha but I'll take it slow 
I'll do three layers.
This first one is quite thick in some spots (1-2cm thick) so I'm going to let this layer dry for 2 weeks maybe?
Then the other 2 layers will be a lot finer.

How does that sound?

Ahhh well yours looks amazing I can't fault it well done!
Your patience paid off!


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## mad_at_arms (Nov 8, 2011)

Jaxrtfm said:


> I've used bondall and Woodworking glue, and I think the bondall is better in the foam to render adhesion. Bondall is designed to helps concrete bond with concrete when patching holes and applying render to brickwork



I scored 2 4Ltr tins of Bondall for free.


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## briiiziii (Nov 8, 2011)

Dammit!
At $17 a Litre for PVA I could of used some free stuff! haha


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## J-A-X (Nov 9, 2011)

just stop and think about how much something the size you are doing and the quality that it will be, would be worth if you found it at a shop. It doesn't seem so bad then. And no doubt you'll have leftovers for the next one ! So that one will be cheaper.


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## briiiziii (Nov 10, 2011)

That's what I'm trying to think about haha!
When I really think about it, I was going to buy two of those reptile one background for $60 each!
Haha
I've probably spent much less than that to get a BAZZILLION times better result!


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