# All may not be as it seems



## longirostris (Jul 1, 2018)

Is it me or am I just paranoid. Has anybody else noticed the number of new threads that seem to be being started by new members that ask questions or make statements about Wildlife laws or other licensing issues, whether certain snake species are available and other what I would call suspicious queries and comments that you would not normally expect from new members to the forum. This activity seems to have really taken off over the last few weeks, funnily enough right in the middle of 2 of the most important reviews for wildlife management in Australia that have taken place in the last several years. 

All you need to do is go back through the recent posts and have a look at the number of posts started by new members on topics either directly or indirectly related to the licensing, regulations, species availability etc. All posts you would not really expect from first time posters. 

I have been told that certain wildlife management authorities are actually monitoring these types of forums and facebook pages to look for illegal activity amongst the hobby. I have no issue with that and a big hello to NPWS and DES whilst I think about it. However what I think is happening and I hope I am wrong is that the forum may be actually being used to proactively solicit information by having people under the guise of "new members" get on here and post leading or questioning posts that may or may not result in information being generated that could be used against individuals on this forum and probably more importantly for me the reptile keeping community generally. 

I am not sure about the legality of this behaviour but if it is happening then this activity must be considered highly unethical and lacking in any decency at the very least. I think the Americans call this activity entrapment and I believe it is illegal in the USA. These people need to be called out. If you see these sorts of posts don't respond. Just ignore them. Hopefully they will get the message and just go away. 

Mark Hawker


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## Dragoon (Jul 1, 2018)

Oh, I did make a post asking about licenses last week, its was just a simple question about the changing OLD licenses due to the fact I'm hopefully getting a snake soon but the fact that lots of people are doing it and its looking suspicious is quite worrying


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jul 1, 2018)

Have had the same thoughts Mark.
Though for me the biggest problem is the respondent's to those posts are what really create the concern. Some of our members dive in without forethought or 1st hand knowledge. May be this thread will serve as a reminder to get those individuals to think before they post uneducated responses.


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## Scutellatus (Jul 1, 2018)

Firstly I would like to say, I am not trying to discount the issue in case you are correct Mark.
It is possible though, that these 'New Members' could actually be existing/suspended member 'troll' accounts, that have picked up on your suspicions and are muddying the waters for no other purpose than to get their little kicks.

Hopefully neither of us are right and they are just ill-timed questions from genuine New Members.


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## Tony B (Jul 1, 2018)

As a new member but not new to keeping reptiles I feel that the whole idea of a wanted to buy section would be for people looking. How does one find the reptiles they seek unless they ask?? The species I was looking for is hard to locate. I would think you would only be worried and paranoid if you were doing something illegal.


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## longirostris (Jul 1, 2018)

Tony B said:


> As a new member but not new to keeping reptiles I feel that the whole idea of a wanted to buy section would be for people looking. How does one find the reptiles they seek unless they ask?? The species I was looking for is hard to locate. I would think you would only be worried and paranoid if you were doing something illegal.



Let me assure you and everybody else on this forum including DES and NPWS I have too much at stake as far as my collection is concerned to be conducting or involved in any type of illegal activity. However I get your point and no doubt some of these types of inquiries will no doubt be genuine as indeed appears to be the case with you. Just as a matter of interest though and clarification for you personally, your posts were not ones I was specifically referring to, having not even seen them until you responded to my post above. I could equally come back and suggest that perhaps I touched a nerve or hit the spot with you given the fact you felt the need to respond to me with a suggestion I might be doing something illegal.

The bigger issue for me though as I said in my earlier post is that there are people from various wildlife authorities and animal welfare groups monitoring this and other forums and I find it incredibly coincidental that there seems to be much larger than usual new member activity and that the nature of some inquiries are curious to say the least. As I said in my opening post I take exception to people who may be using this forum for the purpose of gathering information in a way that as I said can only be regarded as entrapment. There is a big focus (albeit misguided as far as I am concerned) at DES and NPWS on poaching and illegal take of native animals from the wild and the nature of some of these new member questions suggest an underlying intention to seek and identify if possible any commentary that may lead to the opportunity for further investigation by the authorities.

Everybody on this forum and elsewhere including the Minister responsible in QLD for DES knows my position on the massive beat up that wildlife authorities and animal welfare groups everywhere like to engage in when it comes to the taking of wildlife from the wild whether legally or illegally. At the end of the day the total number of animals involved in this activity is tiny in comparison to the real causes of wildlife populations decimation. That there is even a focus at all through the medium of wildlife licensing, keeping regulations and species lists etc for the tiny numbers of individuals held and collected for and by private keepers is ridiculous in the absolute waste of resources employed. The efforts that wildlife authorities go to, to fabricate and overstate the existential impact of wildlife keepers activities on wild populations and totally ignore and underplay the real issues of land clearing, predation and ingestion by and of introduced non indigenous animals particularly feral cats and cane toads, hazard reduction burns, insecticide use, road kill etc, is brain snapping and needs to be highlighted to the public generally. The activities of native animal keepers for the most part are only beneficial in the outcomes achieved including, enhancement of knowledge, establishment of rescue populations, education of people keepers come into contact with, etc. Yet we still have to put up with wildlife authorities and animal welfare groups even more so treating us like pariahs that need to be managed and controlled and treated like paroled criminals in order to do the right thing. 

Mark Hawker


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## Tony B (Jul 1, 2018)

Did I hit a nerve with you if it was directed at you I would have put it as a reply directly to your post. Your post was not the only one stating the points you raised my post was in general. I have nothing to hide all my reptiles are from reputable breeders the only type I purchase. I unlike most buyers sight the sellers licence and request a receipt of sale never buy in carparks either. I have in the past reported sellers for illegally poached reptiles. I was merely stating that people do post wanted ads to obtain animals for themselves. And not all enquires are genuine but the way you worded your post all new members were in the same group. I was a member of this group in 2009 but closed my account so had to re join. A lot of people obtain their licences to easily without firstly doing any research. They then obtain a reptile from a breeder again without researching the keeping of the animal first.


I am personally interested in my snakes and the survival of rare species hence why I was chasing what I was. The fact member numbers has increased could as you say be because of what you state who knows. They should stick to Facebook and Gumtree as these sites have the activity they need to monitor.


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## Buggster (Jul 1, 2018)

I think there is currently a fair bit of confusion (which is to be expected) with all the new proposed changes in various states.
Heck, I’m not even sure what the new NSW policy is going to be at this time- I’ve heard things will be taken off the system, or classed up/down or that the whole thing is being revamped.

Generally any question that can be answered by a quick Google search annoys me to no end (ie: do I need a license? Can I keep this animal?) but right now I don’t blame people for it.


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