# That other bird...



## LadyJ (Aug 25, 2010)

That other bird... really is of no interest.

My cockatiel, Koj, takes no interest at all in the mirror. I put him right up to his reflection and he glances at it, gets bored, and flys back to my shoulder... haha, why doesn't he care? 

His eyesight's fine and he's in perfect health, a gorgeous young male... shouldn't he be angry at this other bird?!


----------



## Chicken (Aug 25, 2010)

lol maybe its a smart bird and knows its a mirror..... can he talk? If yes than he's smart


----------



## Pike01 (Aug 25, 2010)

No bird recognizes themselves, the great apes are the only animals that have self awareness.


----------



## Snakeman97404 (Aug 25, 2010)

Some birds just dont care about mirrors


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 26, 2010)

Haha, he's a little smarty-pants... but how can you say birds don't have self-awareness when I've seen them sit and preen themselves to their reflection? Either way... does he not feel challanged by this other bird?


----------



## raaaa (Aug 26, 2010)

not loving the mirror is a good thing means hes hapily bonded to you and not threatened by this other bird or lonely some birds just arent interested lol.... wish i had had your problem with my ringneck lol she used to try to feed the pother bird in the mirror....


----------



## Kristy_07 (Aug 26, 2010)

raaaa said:


> not loving the mirror is a good thing means hes hapily bonded to you and not threatened by this other bird or lonely some birds just arent interested



+1. 

How old was he when you got him? It sounds as though he has imprinted on you?


----------



## PhilK (Aug 26, 2010)

My Archie used to like the mirror when we first got him from the pet shop.. he thought his reflection was a different bird (i.e. not self aware). As he bonded more to us he now couldn't care less about reflections.

When birds bond to people they don't know they are birds, so why should they care if there is a bird in the mirror?


----------



## Kristy_07 (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep, I agree with you, Phil. I raised Wokka the galah from 4 weeks, and he never really paid much attention to mirrors, either. Which makes me think Jacinta has had hers from quite a young age? Or that he's been handraised?


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 26, 2010)

raaaa said:


> not loving the mirror is a good thing means hes hapily bonded to you and not threatened by this other bird or lonely some birds just arent interested lol.... wish i had had your problem with my ringneck lol she used to try to feed the pother bird in the mirror....



Aww, that's what I want to hear! He's 8 months now, been with me since he left the nest and I'd spent hours every day with him since I received him... he's now so happily tame and constantly out and about when I'm home (to supervise) and he loves to preen me, take a nice shower with me and be with me wherever he can.

He's never been clipped and is amazingly calm and doesn't mind other people (he's not a 'one man bird', I'm happily not his mate!), but always prefers to come back to me.

Guess he must just be happy and settled - although I thought he may want to defend the territory he's established.


----------



## Kristy_07 (Aug 26, 2010)

As much as I hate to say it, be careful if you're not clipping his wings - I've seen some awful things happen with unclipped, inside, tame, friendly birds who have suddenly gotten a fright an taken off, only to smash into a wall or window! I hated clipping the wings of my birds, hated it, but, I couldn't stand the thought of what they could do if they decided to take off and run into something  

I'm sure you already know this  I'm not trying to be patronising!


----------



## 85Hickey (Aug 26, 2010)

I was doing some research in my books only two days ago about cockatiels, and it did mention that mirrors arent always the best thing for them, as much as people think they are necesary. Mirrors that are in cages, which the bird can constantly see, they can stress as they never seem to get away from the "other bird" making them sit in corners so they cant see the reflection. I wasnt aware of it untill i read it and am keeping a close eye on mine now. Not saying your having that problem, but just wanted to point out what i read in one of my books.


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 26, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> As much as I hate to say it, be careful if you're not clipping his wings - I've seen some awful things happen with unclipped, inside, tame, friendly birds who have suddenly gotten a fright an taken off, only to smash into a wall or window! I hated clipping the wings of my birds, hated it, but, I couldn't stand the thought of what they could do if they decided to take off and run into something
> 
> I'm sure you already know this  I'm not trying to be patronising!



Hehe, thank you for bringing that up - I really don't know how I'll bring myself to clipping but I totally agree with everything you're saying... this guy (Koj) is such a big part of my life and I'd hate to see anything happen to him. 

I plan on clipping one wing - but only a little, just so he can glide but not reach the incredible speeds he does currently (seeing a bird in full flight in a small space, like my room, is scary... he goes so fast and the turns he does are amazing and precise, but I can't help but wonder how easy it would be for him to get a scare and misjudge...).

Just have to bring myself to it... 



> I was doing some research in my books only two days ago about cockatiels, and it did mention that mirrors arent always the best thing for them, as much as people think they are necesary. Mirrors that are in cages, which the bird can constantly see, they can stress as they never seem to get away from the "other bird" making them sit in corners so they cant see the reflection. I wasnt aware of it untill i read it and am keeping a close eye on mine now. Not saying your having that problem, but just wanted to point out what i read in one of my books.



I totally agree with you... I don't see why anyone would put a mirror in the cage when it's common-sense that most animals tend to act out against them. 

Aside from what you mentioned you also have the flip-side, a bird that becomes obssessed with the mirror and sees it as a mate... these birds get very cranky and territorial as they think they're protected their 'mate'.

The only reason Koj sees the mirror is that he's always hitching a ride on my shoulder and when I go into the bathroom he has quite a large mirror to look at - just takes no notice in it... I should show him how hilarious he looks after we've taken a shower and then there might be a reaction!


----------



## Kristy_07 (Aug 26, 2010)

I used to clip one side, but only the secondaries, not the primaries. It seemed to be enough to slow them down around the house and put them off balance just a touch. BUT, it wasn't enough to stop them flying low to the ground and gliding quite a distance, so we still had to make sure the doors were definitely shut. When we started letting the galah come outside with us a bit, we clipped all secondaries on one side plus one or two of the primaries (to off balance even more), and some but not all the secondaries on the other side. This is just what we did - he loved being outside, but a couple of times he took off on us and nearly got over the fence or road, so had to do a bit more clipping. I hated doing it, but he wasn't an avery bird, and doing the gardening with me was one of his favourite things, so it had to be done. 

You can always clip, and if you or he doesn't like it, they'll grow back soon enough


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 26, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I used to clip one side, but only the secondaries, not the primaries. It seemed to be enough to slow them down around the house and put them off balance just a touch. BUT, it wasn't enough to stop them flying low to the ground and gliding quite a distance, so we still had to make sure the doors were definitely shut. When we started letting the galah come outside with us a bit, we clipped all secondaries on one side plus one or two of the primaries (to off balance even more), and some but not all the secondaries on the other side. This is just what we did - he loved being outside, but a couple of times he took off on us and nearly got over the fence or road, so had to do a bit more clipping. I hated doing it, but he wasn't an avery bird, and doing the gardening with me was one of his favourite things, so it had to be done.
> 
> You can always clip, and if you or he doesn't like it, they'll grow back soon enough



Thanks so much! All I'm wanting to do is slow down the little speed-demon, so I'll follow that guideline. Thank you so much!


----------



## PhilK (Aug 26, 2010)

Just a warning about clipping.. it is generally frowned upon to clip one side. This takes away your birds control and can cause serious injury. With clipping most vets agree it should be fully clipped or fully flighted.. in betweens are asking for trouble.

I have seen a cockatiel with 5 primaries on each side clipped off get a fright and do 2 laps of the veterinary surgery, so they can certainly fly when they want to. Get someone who knows what they are doing to help.

And as for you not being his mate.. just wait til he hits maturity


----------



## Scarred (Aug 26, 2010)

pike1 said:


> No bird recognizes themselves, the great apes are the only animals that have self awareness.


 

Sorry for the small derail, but you may find this article interesting; Mirror Self-recognition In Magpie Birds

Self recognition has since been proven present in other members of the corvidae family as well.


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 27, 2010)

Yeah - best bet would be for me to take them to my vet... luckily my boyfriend's mum used to work with animals so she'd be an awesome help.

Thanks for all the info - glad I haven't touched him yet! Sure I'll learn enough about it soon when I do my Cert II in animal studies at the vet hospital!


----------



## PhilK (Aug 27, 2010)

LadyJ said:


> Yeah - best bet would be for me to take them to my vet... luckily my boyfriend's mum used to work with animals so she'd be an awesome help.
> 
> Thanks for all the info - glad I haven't touched him yet! Sure I'll learn enough about it soon when I do my Cert II in animal studies at the vet hospital!


Don't count on your vet being able to help you.. unless they see plenty of birds most vets are clueless.

This website is an excellent resource - I did a week of prac there and was blown away, it has to be the best bird vet around!

Bird Care - FAQs and Handouts

Scroll down on the "Handouts" side and download the pdf "Procedure for Correct Wing Clip"


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 27, 2010)

PhilK said:


> Don't count on your vet being able to help you.. unless they see plenty of birds most vets are clueless.
> 
> This website is an excellent resource - I did a week of prac there and was blown away, it has to be the best bird vet around!
> 
> ...



Thanks a heap - that'll be a must to have printed and hanging around. Now I've just got to have my boy over to help me out and we'll get it done... poor Koj.


----------



## raaaa (Aug 27, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I used to clip one side, but only the secondaries, not the primaries. It seemed to be enough to slow them down around the house and put them off balance just a touch. BUT, it wasn't enough to stop them flying low to the ground and gliding quite a distance, so we still had to make sure the doors were definitely shut. When we started letting the galah come outside with us a bit, we clipped all secondaries on one side plus one or two of the primaries (to off balance even more), and some but not all the secondaries on the other side. This is just what we did - he loved being outside, but a couple of times he took off on us and nearly got over the fence or road, so had to do a bit more clipping. I hated doing it, but he wasn't an avery bird, and doing the gardening with me was one of his favourite things, so it had to be done.
> 
> You can always clip, and if you or he doesn't like it, they'll grow back soon enough


 

okay please dont take offence to this but you should never ever clip secondaries. it can kill your bird those feathers are there to insulate there kidneys and other organs there is only one corect way to clip a bird and that its to clip r or three of the outer flight feathers of each wing. clipping one wing strengthens one side of there chest and the othere becomes weak causing heart problems.


----------



## raaaa (Aug 27, 2010)

PhilK said:


> Just a warning about clipping.. it is generally frowned upon to clip one side. This takes away your birds control and can cause serious injury. With clipping most vets agree it should be fully clipped or fully flighted.. in betweens are asking for trouble.
> 
> I have seen a cockatiel with 5 primaries on each side clipped off get a fright and do 2 laps of the veterinary surgery, so they can certainly fly when they want to. Get someone who knows what they are doing to help.
> 
> And as for you not being his mate.. just wait til he hits maturity




+1


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 27, 2010)

Ooh... really paranoid now - in 8 months he's never seriously injured himself but I know it's just a matter of time... I want to do this right or not at all.


----------



## raaaa (Aug 27, 2010)

I have always clipped even my ringneck whos wing was damaged by her abusive first owners she couldnt fly anyway but she didnt realise that the wing cliping made her lose a little of her confidence and kept her safe but it certainly made her life better she used to get to spend hours on the back deck with us just doing her own thing wich she wouldnt have been able to do if they hadnt been clipped. follow that chart the wing gives you a guide line anyway if you pull it out there should be a row of smaller feathers running across the flight ones cut about 2 cm below that and be sure to have some condies crystals or stiptic powder available, everybird owner should have these anyway as the stop bleeding imediately and birds dont clot. failing that plain flower is a less effective substitute but it still stops the bleeding if anything does go wrong what i would do is have a professional do it and show you how before you attempt to do it yourself. most petshops that sell birds will be able to do it for you


----------



## Kristy_07 (Aug 27, 2010)

raaaa said:


> okay please dont take offence to this but you should never ever clip secondaries. it can kill your bird those feathers are there to insulate there kidneys and other organs there is only one corect way to clip a bird and that its to clip r or three of the outer flight feathers of each wing. clipping one wing strengthens one side of there chest and the othere becomes weak causing heart problems.


 
Hi, ra.. thanks, I'll keep this in mind for the future. I have been clipping wings for a long time and was initially showed by an experienced bird vet. I'm sure insulating the kidneys is important in the wild and in colder climates, but I've never had a problem with it with the birds in the house of shops I've worked in, maybe because they're inside 95% of the time and never have the chance to get cold. I'm sure there would be more than one theory on the correct way to do this. Thanks for your input, though.


----------



## PhilK (Aug 27, 2010)

Raaa you are giving out some seriously weird info here.. I would like you to tell me where on earth you got it from? About the only right thing you said was that you should clip three or four primaries from the outside of each wing.

Just to clarify for everyone else...

"Secondaries insulate their kidneys and vital organs and without them they would die." False.
"Clipping one side causes heart problems." False.
"Birds don't clot." False.


----------



## LadyJ (Aug 27, 2010)

PhilK said:


> Raaa you are giving out some seriously weird info here.. I would like you to tell me where on earth you got it from? About the only right thing you said was that you should clip three or four primaries from the outside of each wing.
> 
> Just to clarify for everyone else...
> 
> ...



Thought it sounded a bit... funny... thanks for that Phil. :|


----------



## raaaa (Aug 28, 2010)

The secondary feathers do indeed insulate not so important for indoor birds but a friend of mine was given a badly clipped bird and put it in her aviary it died of kidney failure and thats what the vet said had caused it. And yes there are different schools of thought on the wing clipping that was how it was explained to me by a qualified avian vet as for clotting i should have explained a little better if you clip a birds nails or wings to short and nick the blood vessel they dont clot at least not well, ive known birds to die fron bloodloss due to people doing wings and toe nails too short


----------



## PhilK (Aug 29, 2010)

Again raaaa I've got to say that all sounds wrong to me.. but that isn't the point of this thread.


----------



## raaaa (Aug 31, 2010)

Yeah im not saying im an expert on these things just going by what ive been told by what should have been experts.


----------

