# Insect Sprays can be Lethal for Snakes



## Yellowtail (Nov 20, 2019)

Every time I hear the Pestrol radio commercial with it's "natural Tasmanian Pyrethrins" and "Completely safe for pets" I wonder how they get away with false and misleading advertising and how many reptile keepers know that Pyrethrins while safe for dogs, cats and birds are lethal for snakes whether inhaled or by skin contact.

From their web site:

"It's Safe"
"Pyrethrum is derived from the Chrysanthemum daisy flower, which is harvested in Tasmania. It is completely safe for people and pets. Completely biodegradable. Ozone safe."


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## nuttylizardguy (Nov 22, 2019)

I am not saying I disagree with you on their potential toxicity , but I think you need to produce some scientific proof else others will regard your claim a "scaremongering" or worse.

I don't use surface sprays or aerosol sprays in my home because I am wary of their likely effect on my pet skinks and dragons and I'm sure they will kill my feeder insects .


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## Yellowtail (Nov 22, 2019)

There is undisputed scientific proof, just do a 5 minute Google search but a lot of beginners are possibly not aware. Have you ever seen what happens if you spray it on a snake? 
A lot of people think it's safe with reptiles because it does not harm birds.


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## -Adam- (Nov 22, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> Have you ever seen what happens if you spray it on a snake?



Where would you see such a thing? Were there experiments that show the effect? (I'm guessing maybe it was an early treatment for mites with dire side effects - but am curious to know)?

I simply thought that it was lethal for cold blooded animals but I could be wrong - so would love clarification.

On that nature too - with a pest person spraying around the house for cockroaches and spiders - what's the best way to protect a snake. Not allow them to spray inside the room that is housing the reptiles, or cover up the reptile tank, or both?


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## Mick666 (Nov 22, 2019)

What about permethrin? I read that it's used for snake mites, and I've used it before for that. is that ok for them. I remove the snakes for a while to let the fumes dissipate.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 22, 2019)

Permethrin is ok when used correctly.
The horrifying example I referred to was not a video but an actual situation I witnessed when an uninformed person sprayed a carpet python with a bird spray to remove ticks.
There are no safe levels for pyrethrins whether inhaled or skin contact but higher exposure is more likely to be fatal.


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## nuttylizardguy (Nov 23, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> There is undisputed scientific proof, just do a 5 minute Google search but a lot of beginners are possibly not aware.
> .



That's not really good proof , a lot of fake stuff online.
But really , how hard is for you to give at least the URLs for these. I know the doubting Thomas's will simply roll their eyes and think this guy's is full of it, just saying.



> Have you ever seen what happens if you spray it on a snake?


No , only things I spray onto my reptiles are water ( misting them ) or occasionally HerpaShed.

I've never sprayed anything other than a fine mist from a garden hose on wild reptiles .


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 23, 2019)

Hey guys, all I will say here is that back in 2014 AFT did discover that insect sprays and flea collars used on dogs/cats are absolutely 100% lethal to freshwater turtles. A member lost several specimens in a matter of days completely unexpected and out of the blue and the only new addition in the vicinity of their turtle setups was one of those automated insect spray dispensers that fire a burst of fine mist into the air every 10 minutes or whatever the selected setting determines. Another member also lost a turtle they'd had for over 20 years on the same week they'd been babysitting another family member's dog. Turns out the dog was wearing 2 flea collars and the keeper without even realising the cross contamination risks was playing with the dog on a daily basis and then placing his hands into the aquarium to do aquarium related tasks. That turtle died within 2 days. Veterinary consultation confirmed that the insect sprays and flea collars were the causes of death in both cases. In my opinion, it is of no stretch of the imagination to conclude that insect sprays would pose the same lethal threat to snakes and or other reptiles as they do turtles. I could very well be wrong but those insect spray dispensers are something we discouraged any one who keeps turtles from having in their homes. Anyone who keeps parrots etc or probably any birds would know that insect sprays can kill them... I've heard of the same sprays being responsible for the deaths of budgies. Every 12 months I have Amalgamated pest control come and do a complete spray of my property (my area is blessed with an overabundance of red-backed spiders) and I follow those guys around like a shadow showing them where they can and cannot spray and they assist me in covering all ponds and they do not go in my reptile room at all or even spray the outside of it. Those guys are pretty adamant that their chems for crawling insects would annihilate my entire collecrion no problems at all.

I personally wouldn't risk using an insect spray or surface spray anywhere near, not even in the same room as my pythons.
[doublepost=1574451422,1574449980][/doublepost]I just remembered, a few years back my grandmother had a mouse in her bathroom which got into her empty bathtub and couldn't get out.. it was running around and hopping frantically trying to escape and poor old grandma... all she had under the kitchen sink was her trusty Black Flag insect spray.. . she sprayed the mouse with that and it died within minutes.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 23, 2019)

I take no chances, I have reptiles in every room of the house and banned all insecticides years ago. My dad used to spray so much the cockroaches almost drowned in the stuff.
I don't even like chemical cleaners, I use the Earth Choice range of natural cleaners.


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## nuttylizardguy (Nov 23, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> I take no chances, I have reptiles in every room of the house and banned all insecticides years ago. My dad used to spray so much the cockroaches almost drowned in the stuff.
> I don't even like chemical cleaners, I use the Earth Choice range of natural cleaners.



Same here. ( with the exception of baits) and very rare application of surface spray (when necessary).

Only time I've used surface sprays is when I discovered a couple redbacks had come with some furniture from my dead mum's house. Then only very localized and in areas my dragons and bluetongues are never allowed access too ( especially since the application of surface spray ).
Other than that it's baits ( for roaches and ants ) and we try to get rid of any sick or dead roach's that have been at them , and try to avoid letting the pet lizards eat any escaped rogue crickets.
[doublepost=1574491187,1574490444][/doublepost]


Flaviemys purvisi said:


> Hey guys, all I will say here is that back in 2014 AFT did discover that insect sprays and flea collars used on dogs/cats are absolutely 100% lethal to freshwater turtles. A member lost several specimens in a matter of days completely unexpected and out of the blue and the only new addition in the vicinity of their turtle setups was one of those automated insect spray dispensers that fire a burst of fine mist into the air every 10 minutes or whatever the selected setting determines. Another member also lost a turtle they'd had for over 20 years on the same week they'd been babysitting another family member's dog. Turns out the dog was wearing 2 flea collars and the keeper without even realising the cross contamination risks was playing with the dog on a daily basis and then placing his hands into the aquarium to do aquarium related tasks. That turtle died within 2 days. Veterinary consultation confirmed that the insect sprays and flea collars were the causes of death in both cases. In my opinion, it is of no stretch of the imagination to conclude that insect sprays would pose the same lethal threat to snakes and or other reptiles as they do turtles. I could very well be wrong but those insect spray dispensers are something we discouraged any one who keeps turtles from having in their homes. Anyone who keeps parrots etc or probably any birds would know that insect sprays can kill them... I've heard of the same sprays being responsible for the deaths of budgies. Every 12 months I have Amalgamated pest control come and do a complete spray of my property (my area is blessed with an overabundance of red-backed spiders) and I follow those guys around like a shadow showing them where they can and cannot spray and they assist me in covering all ponds and they do not go in my reptile room at all or even spray the outside of it. Those guys are pretty adamant that their chems for crawling insects would annihilate my entire collecrion no problems at all.
> 
> I personally wouldn't risk using an insect spray or surface spray anywhere near, not even in the same room as my pythons.
> [doublepost=1574451422,1574449980][/doublepost]I just remembered, a few years back my grandmother had a mouse in her bathroom which got into her empty bathtub and couldn't get out.. it was running around and hopping frantically trying to escape and poor old grandma... all she had under the kitchen sink was her trusty Black Flag insect spray.. . she sprayed the mouse with that and it died within minutes.



Spray on and rub on insect repellants are lethal to fish , I discovered this years ago , no RID or Aerogard on my hands or lower arms , and never spray myself up wind of the livebait tank. 

Also discovered cigarette butts will kill a tank full of yellowtail, or small tailor, or mullet in no time flat. Some FW thought my livebait tank was an ashtray / ciggy extinguisher when he walked past, 5 minutes later all my 30 livebait were belly up or dying ( so much for the 3 hours catching them for my night of jewfishing ).


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 23, 2019)

nuttylizardguy said:


> Same here. ( with the exception of baits) and very rare application of surface spray (when necessary).
> 
> Only time I've used surface sprays is when I discovered a couple redbacks had come with some furniture from my dead mum's house. Then only very localized and in areas my dragons and bluetongues are never allowed access too ( especially since the application of surface spray ).
> Other than that it's baits ( for roaches and ants ) and we try to get rid of any sick or dead roach's that have been at them , and try to avoid letting the pet lizards eat any escaped rogue crickets.
> ...


I found a very nasty bait years ago in an asian market, it kills roaches very quickly. I moved into this house about 13 years ago after it being a rental for 20 only to discover it had every species of roach known to man. Within a couple of months there was not an insect to found! And it lasts ! Once a year or so I put down a couple more and no problemo.


BUT if anyone has a cure for redbacks I would be happy to hear of your non poisonous solutions. I seem to be inundated with them lately


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 23, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> BUT if anyone has a cure for redbacks I would be happy to hear of your non poisonous solutions. I seem to be inundated with them lately



Following... I have a kajillion redbacks here inside and out.


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## nuttylizardguy (Nov 24, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> I found a very nasty bait years ago in an asian market, it kills roaches very quickly. I moved into this house about 13 years ago after it being a rental for 20 only to discover it had every species of roach known to man. Within a couple of months there was not an insect to found! And it lasts ! Once a year or so I put down a couple more and no problemo.
> 
> 
> BUT if anyone has a cure for redbacks I would be happy to hear of your non poisonous solutions. I seem to be inundated with them lately



A resident wild gecko or water skink encouraged to stay when it visits will make fast work of redbacks ( got a resident G.Dudia in the kitchen and I think one on the study too ) and usually get a water skink or two most December thro April most years ( come inside to freeload off and feast on rogue crickets and Woodies ( I've given up on woodies - too quick for me ).
Failing that , a vacuum cleaner , or bugblaster 9V vacuum roach catcher (See Ebay) or a fly swatter ( see Ebay ) , or bit of 40mm diameter timber rod (redback squisher) are what I have used in the past. Harder if the spider disappears into a tight gap behind something.

Daddy Long Leg Spiders hunt them too. Got quite a few of these "spinnys" in my house.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 25, 2019)

the trouble with my place is the enclosures are permanent fixtures with small gaps behind and between so vacuum cleaners don't fit, I don't live near water so skinks are out and no geckos in western Sydney either. I know Daddy's eat redbacks so I encourage them but sometimes my place looks like a haunted house with webs everywhere. Whenever I find a new nest I hoover it up pretty quick but the bastards are always 3 steps ahead of me. I recently found a big girl with an egg sac in a drawer full of photo's


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