# crocodile`s and mice



## reptilesrkool (May 10, 2012)

gday guys just wondering at what age/size i can feed my my year old+ freshwater crocodile mice or rats with furr cheer`s


----------



## dadaman (May 10, 2012)

You own a croc?


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

Are you just showing of that you have a croc or are you seriously asking how to look after it. Why do people get animals they don't know how to care for.


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Why dont people comment with rubbish? And who cares if he doesnt know thats y his askin to learn? Im sure u wrightpython have never asked a question on these forums? 
But in relation to ur question mate i would say just give it a try if it takes it then ur all good!


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

When can I feed my pet elephant peanuts.


----------



## Manda1032 (May 10, 2012)

i was going to be a smarty bottom and say 'Um, when its hungry' but I kinda agree with Wrightpython here. Shouldn't there be some kind of screening when it comes to something that can chew off a limb or poison you to death with a bite?
To Quote Mr Mackie off South Park
"There are no stupid questions just stupid people"


----------



## snake_handler90 (May 10, 2012)

hey mate dw about these guys ive got a couple and will help with any questions you have pm me


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Ye there maybe should b but people there aint so y not just help him get prepared better laiter then never!! And wrightpython ya shouldnt feed ya elephant peanuts not to good for there digestion.


----------



## Manda1032 (May 10, 2012)

ok am i the only person here who Researches BEFORE purchase?


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Must be!


----------



## snake_handler90 (May 10, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> ok am i the only person here who Researches BEFORE purchase?


all my animals i keep have had hours of research put into them but id rather help him out now so the animal dose not suffer or have any problems down the track


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

I have a hatchy childreni and I've put a couple of adult rats in with it but for some reason it hasn't eaten them can any one help please. Should I just force feed it the rats and do I need to kill the rats before I try and force feed them thanks inadvance


----------



## Mitchell1995 (May 10, 2012)

I don't know much about croc's either, but I would say if it fits between there eye's, than you can give it to them.
But that's just my opinion.


----------



## snake_handler90 (May 10, 2012)

to me it seems that your thinking about making an idiot out of this guy instead of putting the animal first. yes it was irresponsible not to research it first but unless you have any real help to keeping the animal heathy and happy dont comment at all


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Wrightpython 608 posts on these forums i hope they all aint as pointless and in helpfull as the last few.


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

jonez said:


> Wrightpython 608 posts on these forums i hope they all aint as pointless and in helpfull as the last few.


Check the likes I believe it's 2 to 0 obviously I'm not the only one that thinks people buying an animal they don't no how to the look after is a joke. Give all the advice you like but someone's got to show how dumb it is to buy it because you think it would be a good show off piece. If he owned the animal because he loves them and has always wantedit then he would know how to look after it rather than relying on someone else to tell him how to care for it, and in a few weeks time after its lost it's wow factor I suppose a dam or creek would be a good spot for it.


----------



## Shotta (May 10, 2012)

yes you can feed a crocodile a mouse


----------



## Boidae (May 10, 2012)

I would get him onto small (furred) mice as soon as you can. 
You really want the extra nutrition and roughage that the fur, bones, and bodily organs provide. 
I wouldn't imagine a pinky or fuzzy would have very much nutritional value. 

If he can't fit them down his gob whole, then just chop them up into several pieces.


----------



## woody101 (May 10, 2012)

I dont understand how people can make stupid comments on peoples posts / asking for help if you dont have something that will help the person or something nice to say DONT COMMENT.

As for this thread i cant help you i wish i could own a freshie but not aloud in QLD  would love to see pics tho


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> Check the likes I believe it's 2 to 0 obviously I'm not the only one that thinks people buying an animal they don't no how to the look after is a joke. Give all the advice you like but someone's got to show how dumb it is to buy it because you think it would be a good show off piece. If he owned the animal because he loves them and has always wantedit then he would know how to look after it rather than relying on someone else to tell him how to care for it, and in a few weeks time after its lost it's wow factor I suppose a dam or creek would be a good spot for it.


Never once doubted it was a dumb idea but as snake handler said wouldnt u rather help out? But clearly not in ur case. Im not supportin the fact he has bought an animal that he doesnt know how to properly care for but i can say there are plenty of people out there that do buy spure of the moment pets. All im sayin is stop being so unsupporting and help him and his pet buy giving some knowledgable info that u most likely have given the range of animals u have but nope u just choose to give people usless info.


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

I thought this is what one of the reasons this website is for asking questions for help the guy needed help so he asked stop putting the guy down and maybe just don't comment at all


----------



## Darlyn (May 10, 2012)

Manda1032 said:


> i was going to be a smarty bottom and say 'Um, when its hungry' but I kinda agree with Wrightpython here. Shouldn't there be some kind of screening when it comes to something that can chew off a limb or poison you to death with a bite?



Pretty sure a freshie isn't gunna chew a limb off.
I agree with Wrighty (which would be a first) what are you doing with a freshie if you have no idea how to care for it?
To the people saying he's asking for help, he shouldn't put an animal in that predicament. Foolish and thoughtless behaviour.


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

I needed help with my elephant and my childreni why didn't you help me out



Darlyn said:


> Pretty sure a freshie isn't gunna chew a limb off.
> I agree with Wrighty (which would be a first) what are you doing with a freshie if you have no idea how to care for it?
> To the people saying he's asking for help, he shouldn't put an animal in that pridicament. Foolish and thoughtless behaviour.


We finally agree on something welcome to the dark side we have alcohol and cookies


----------



## SteveNT (May 10, 2012)

reptilesrkool said:


> gday guys just wondering at what age/size i can feed my my year old+ freshwater crocodile mice or rats with furr cheer`s



They eat fish. Feed it fish. Nuff said.


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

Maybe because your being a smart about it and maybe he knows how to care for it just didn't no when to start them off on mice/rats and you's are the ones with the foolish behavior.


----------



## Darlyn (May 10, 2012)

caleb96 said:


> Maybe because your being a smart about it and maybe he knows how to care for it just didn't no when to start them off on mice/rats and you's are the ones with the foolish behavior.



Maybe it's past your bed time Caleb, it's great that you are sticking up for the OP but at the end of the day he has been irresponsible. We hope that by telling him some home truths it may discourage him from buying an animal in the future with no knowledge of it's husbandry requirements


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

haha dam i wish i was as funny as that mate I'm 16 i don't have a bed time so why don't you and ya other friends that are having a go at this guy that is just asking for a little help so
maybe use should just back off and leave the guy alone I'm sure he wanted answers no comments that are putting him down and im sure there's a lot more people that would be backing me up mate.


----------



## JAS101 (May 10, 2012)

reptilesrkool said:


> gday guys just wondering at what age/size i can feed my my year old+ freshwater crocodile mice or rats with furr cheer`s


id stick to mice until the croc gets bigger . u could try it on hoppers - if they look to be to big then cut the mouse in half .

but really its a croc , if it thinks the food is too big then it will soon sort it out on its own .


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Stop stressin caleb these old blokes are just the same dude ya run into at the pub old heros mate thats all still stuck in the days of big notein themselves. Ye ya both quite knowledgable people but [email protected] ya to far gone boys. Good luck to yas... Im out

Ps wrighty likes are even hahaha so childish but had to be said


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

cheers for sticking up for me jonez dam straight it childish.


----------



## PythonLegs (May 10, 2012)

Aaahaha...wrightpython vs.the newb gang.

Aaanyway, to the O.P, the best way to find out if your pet crocodile is ready for new foods is to use the bodypart test- if your finger is as big as the crocs mouth, use food about that size. If you're not sure, let the croc bite you, then check the tooth marks against the size of food you wish to use. You can continue using this methpd as the animal grows- your finger first, then arm, then head, then..well, you probably wont need any more.

I have WAY too much time on my hands.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 10, 2012)

now for all those people being smart asses i no exactly what im doing the reason that i asked when they can be given a mouse with fur is because young crocodiles have been none to die from hair balls from mice im no asking when he can be up graded to a bigger mouse ive had a lot of experance with crocodilan`s


----------



## Darlyn (May 10, 2012)

caleb96 said:


> haha dam i wish i was as funny as that mate I'm 16 i don't have a bed time so why don't you and ya other friends that are having a go at this guy that is just asking for a little help so
> maybe use should just back off and leave the guy alone I'm sure he wanted answers no comments that are putting him down and im sure there's a lot more people that would be backing me up mate.



Okay, I acquiese, I bow to you with your inherent knowledge of all things. I will back off from having an opinion.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 10, 2012)

yeah for the people saying i have no clue how to look after it he has a perfict setup and also it`s no my first crocodile and i work with crocodilan`s few differen`t speacies all the time


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

Exactly some people just don't no when to shut there mouths tried to tell ya guy's he knows what he is doing


----------



## Poggle (May 10, 2012)

jonez said:


> Stop stressin caleb these old blokes are just the same dude ya run into at the pub old heros mate thats all still stuck in the days of big notein themselves. Ye ya both quite knowledgable people but [email protected] ya to far gone boys. Good luck to yas... Im out
> 
> Ps wrighty likes are even hahaha so childish but had to be said



Some of these "old" blokes have bee round reptiles for years mate. and yes while some do go over the top like wright it is to prove a point... hopefully. When keeping crocs, usually research goes into it. In Vic it is to easy now for people to keep these.... there is a lot more screening in other states. As for op having alot of experience with crocs, if this is the case and you know about stats of crocs dying from "furballs" then you should have a rough idea of age to feed them this size feed. I am not jumping on the band wagon cracking the op, but this is something people should be aware of.... similar to wright saying what should she be feeding her stimmie or what ever. It is important for people to know the correct info. Thanks to those hwo provided it for op so i dont have to but at the same time threads going this way far to often.... criticise and so on.....not all "us" oldies are oldies simply cause we know stuff.... I am only 23. But have been working with and sutdying herps since 10. So not all oldies sit in pubs mate. Some of us sit at home with our families doing what you will do in years time... so try and show some respect both ways yeh ?


----------



## caleb96 (May 10, 2012)

We would if they showed it.


----------



## Wrightpython (May 10, 2012)

jonez said:


> Stop stressin caleb these old blokes are just the same dude ya run into at the pub old heros mate thats all still stuck in the days of big notein themselves. Ye ya both quite knowledgable people but [email protected] ya to far gone boys. Good luck to yas... Im out
> 
> Ps wrighty likes are even hahaha so childish but had to be said


I hope Caleb doesn't run into mein the pub being hes 16



reptilesrkool said:


> yeah for the people saying i have no clue how to look after it he has a perfict setup and also it`s no my first crocodile and i work with crocodilan`s few differen`t speacies all the time


If you know what your doing and have so much experience then why ask the question, I'm glad you need an exhibitors license to have crocs in nsw stops the show offs how many different species are you handling regularly,


----------



## Nes88c (May 10, 2012)

Poggle said:


> Some of these "old" blokes have bee round reptiles for years mate. and yes while some do go over the top like wright it is to prove a point... hopefully. When keeping crocs, usually research goes into it. In Vic it is to easy now for people to keep these.... there is a lot more screening in other states. As for op having alot of experience with crocs, if this is the case and you know about stats of crocs dying from "furballs" then you should have a rough idea of age to feed them this size feed. I am not jumping on the band wagon cracking the op, but this is something people should be aware of.... similar to wright saying what should she be feeding her stimmie or what ever. It is important for people to know the correct info. Thanks to those hwo provided it for op so i dont have to but at the same time threads going this way far to often.... criticise and so on.....not all "us" oldies are oldies simply cause we know stuff.... I am only 23. But have been working with and sutdying herps since 10. So not all oldies sit in pubs mate. Some of us sit at home with our families doing what you will do in years time... so try and show some respect both ways yeh ?


I agree with you, but seriously? Where in the first OPs post did it say he had no experience? As far as we know he just wanted another persons experience as to when, because he wanted to be sure.... God forbid ppl posting for help! That's what this forum is about, chatting to ppl about similar hobbies and getting information and ideas on how they do things, my my, calm down, I think it's rude you just jumped into saying he had no idea, when u don't know what he knows, for all u know he has a croc who is sick n wanted to know if it was safe to put him onto fuzzies at his age!!! How bout asking questions and finding out some information about the OP and his croc before jumping down his throat. I've not been here long and I dunno if I even wanna stay if this is how u treat ppl who come for advice! If u don't have anything better to do then criticize SHAME ON YOU!


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 10, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> I hope Caleb doesn't run into mein the pub being hes 16
> 
> If you know what your doing and have so much experience then why ask the question, I'm glad you need an exhibitors license to have crocs in nsw stops the show offs how many different species are you handling regularly,


it`s one question i don`t no every bloody thing about crocodile`s so i asked a question and found the answer to be they should never get fur and i handle alligator`s and freshwater crocodile`s on a regula basis as i work at a wildlife park


----------



## Poggle (May 10, 2012)

Nes88c said:


> I agree with you, but seriously? Where in the first OPs post did it say he had no experience? As far as we know he just wanted another persons experience as to when, because he wanted to be sure.... God forbid ppl posting for help! That's what this forum is about, chatting to ppl about similar hobbies and getting information and ideas on how they do things, my my, calm down, I think it's rude you just jumped into saying he had no idea, when u don't know what he knows, for all u know he has a croc who is sick n wanted to know if it was safe to put him onto fuzzies at his age!!! How bout asking questions and finding out some information about the OP and his croc before jumping down his throat. I've not been here long and I dunno if I even wanna stay if this is how u treat ppl who come for advice! If u don't have anything better to do then criticize SHAME ON YOU!



first of all i am not jumping down the op's throat. maybe read my post. i posted from a neutral position. And i was fiar to comment on op's experience as he stated in a previous post he works with crocs, so once again not having a stab, rather repeating facts. 
So before it is SHAME ON ME for posting, i think it may be worth noting my comments in regards to everyone else's?? yeh good idea i think.


----------



## jonez (May 10, 2012)

Poggle said:


> Some of these "old" blokes have bee round reptiles for years mate. and yes while some do go over the top like wright it is to prove a point... hopefully. When keeping crocs, usually research goes into it. In Vic it is to easy now for people to keep these.... there is a lot more screening in other states. As for op having alot of experience with crocs, if this is the case and you know about stats of crocs dying from "furballs" then you should have a rough idea of age to feed them this size feed. I am not jumping on the band wagon cracking the op, but this is something people should be aware of.... similar to wright saying what should she be feeding her stimmie or what ever. It is important for people to know the correct info. Thanks to those hwo provided it for op so i dont have to but at the same time threads going this way far to often.... criticise and so on.....not all "us" oldies are oldies simply cause we know stuff.... I am only 23. But have been working with and sutdying herps since 10. So not all oldies sit in pubs mate. Some of us sit at home with our families doing what you will do in years time... so try and show some respect both ways yeh ?


Hahaha u may no ya reptiles and stuff mate but cleary cant read properly i said these old guys as in the guys jumpin down the OPs throat not to the entire group of older people. So dont start a quote and try handing something to me without even thinking about wat ur saying? Let alone wat im saying. I never once have said its right to buy when u dont have the knowledge nore have i made smart *** remarks to the OP this is because its said on every post and it shouldnt be cause its general knowledge but there will always those people who dont care about the animal as much as the majority of APS members. This all being said just give people a chance before u start claiming inexperience


----------



## eipper (May 10, 2012)

Reptilesrkool,

Simple stick to diet of fish and yabbies until about 2 ft in length. Then you start giving the odd rodent... But do it occasionally rather than a staple diet.

Cheers
scott


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 10, 2012)

thanks scott i no what to feed him just wonted to no when they could digest hair with out the chance of dieing from the hair balls


----------



## eipper (May 10, 2012)

Again once its 2 ft then start offering the occasional rodent , at that size the lower intestinal tract should have the musculature required to digest and form pellets of hair. 

Furball based impactions are usually caused by a combination of poor husbandry and too many rodents in the diet.


----------



## notechistiger (May 10, 2012)

There is really no need for all this trolling and insults. A simple answer would suffice. Regardless of how old you are or how many reptiles you own, threads like these really show who the adults are.


----------



## Tsubakai (May 10, 2012)

reptilesrkool said:


> yeah for the people saying i have no clue how to look after it he has a perfict setup and also it`s no my first crocodile and i work with crocodilan`s few differen`t speacies all the time




If you'd included a bit more information in your first post then you probably would have gotten better and more specific information earlier. As it reads, your first post can be interpreted as from someone who has very little knowledge about the animal they are keeping.


----------



## getarealdog (May 10, 2012)

reptilesrkool said:


> it`s one question i don`t no every bloody thing about crocodile`s so i asked a question and found the answer to be they should never get fur and i handle alligator`s and freshwater crocodile`s on a regula basis as i work at a wildlife park



Ha! wondered when you were going to shed some more light. Interesting responses aye? Only ever had 2 freshies, 1 from Grahame Webb at Crocodylus Park & the other from Billabong Sanctuary. Fed mine on mainly fish, with the odd prawn, calamari, strips of kangaroo & beef heart. Done the rodents when around 18inches. When I got the first 1 I got conflicking information in regard to husbandry & so got hold of Grahame Webb at Crocodylus Park-figured he knows a thing or to.


----------



## thomasssss (May 11, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> I have a hatchy childreni and I've put a couple of adult rats in with it but for some reason it hasn't eaten them can any one help please. Should I just force feed it the rats and do I need to kill the rats before I try and force feed them thanks inadvance


haha how do i quote this into my sign


----------



## CaptainRatbag (May 11, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> I have a hatchy childreni and I've put a couple of adult rats in with it but for some reason it hasn't eaten them can any one help please. Should I just force feed it the rats and do I need to kill the rats before I try and force feed them thanks inadvance



No, just stun the rats first by putting the tail in one side of a power point and its bottom teeth in the other side. Yes, force feeding is good..... suck the rat up into a bike pump then screw the pump into hatchies mouth and pump really hard. If you hear a loud popping noise... stop pumping


----------



## HoffOff (May 11, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> Check the likes I believe it's 2 to 0


Hey, check out the sites name, it's "Aussie pythons and snakes", not facebook.
You're not helping out at all, not everyone is as perfect as you, just sayin'.
To everyone saying rah rah i'm pointing out how stupid it is, but have you never done anything stupid?. 
If you were to help him, it would be one less "stupid decision", and he'd look after the animal properly.
And to the OP, no idea about crocs, but i'm sure at least someone on this site will help you.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 11, 2012)

getarealdog said:


> Ha! wondered when you were going to shed some more light. Interesting responses aye? Only ever had 2 freshies, 1 from Grahame Webb at Crocodylus Park & the other from Billabong Sanctuary. Fed mine on mainly fish, with the odd prawn, calamari, strips of kangaroo & beef heart. Done the rodents when around 18inches. When I got the first 1 I got conflicking information in regard to husbandry & so got hold of Grahame Webb at Crocodylus Park-figured he knows a thing or to.


yeah nigle guess i wont ask anyone on here again ill just call up some people like u that no what there talking about


----------



## Poggle (May 11, 2012)

jonez said:


> Hahaha u may no ya reptiles and stuff mate but cleary cant read properly i said these old guys as in the guys jumpin down the OPs throat not to the entire group of older people. So dont start a quote and try handing something to me without even thinking about wat ur saying? Let alone wat im saying. I never once have said its right to buy when u dont have the knowledge nore have i made smart *** remarks to the OP this is because its said on every post and it shouldnt be cause its general knowledge but there will always those people who dont care about the animal as much as the majority of APS members. This all being said just give people a chance before u start claiming inexperience



Jonez get off the high horse mate. I didnt even say i new my reptiles, i said i have been round them a while. I never attacked op, i said it was shame that in his posts he was saying he new about alligators and crocs but didnt know what age he should put certain things in their diet. I thanked those for offering good advice and also stated it was a shame people jump down others throats. I never claimed inexperience, more so , he claimed he had experience but was concerned about basic diets.

I never quoted you saying that you agreed with inexperience people buying some higher needs reptiles. So mate before you try and rip my thread apart saying i have no idea what i am writing... please do me a favour a read it through. I was posting from a neutral position, neither agreeing or disagreeing with either side.. as i for one am sick of the crap which is posted on threads when people are making their best efforts.



caleb96 said:


> We would if they showed it.



you may be right. But it is not a young vs old war. Not a newbie vs experience battle. All this ****, it really is pointless and ruins so SO SO SO many threads...

This whole attiutude of he did it first... well mate you dont want to sound 15 do you? You are on a forum with people of all ages. And no matter the age show respect to those who do help and ignore those who dont. makes it alot less complicated.


----------



## richardsc (May 11, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> When can I feed my pet elephant peanuts.



there would be alot less members on here if u start feeding your elephant peanuts,lol


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 11, 2012)

What are the growth rates on johnstoni? 
I've seen some make it to a size that wouldn't really be viable inside, where as others have been in a 6-8ft for 4-5 years. 

Is feeding very slowly
A) Good for their health at such an early age? (I imagine in the wild they would feed as much as they can on small fish, frogs, inverts and eventually small mammals and birds to get to a larger size and avoid being prey for larger animals including their own kind)
B) Effect their activity 
C) If you do how do you do it? Lots of small food regularly, or one or two large feeds periodically 

If you haven't kept or had with experience crocodiles please do not comment.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 11, 2012)

he`s been getting pinkie rats and pink mice every couple of days and i restock his tank with feeder fish all the time witch dissapear fast lol would give him yabbies but a bit hard at the mment to ge smaller one`s for the little guy


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 11, 2012)

....yes and what are his growth rates like?


----------



## Venomous1111 (May 11, 2012)

you blokes ***** worst then school girls. Just sayin.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 11, 2012)

34cm on 6/4/12 and 35 1/2 cm on 5/5/12 so 1 and 1/2cm in a month


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 11, 2012)

Thank you reptilesrkool. 

Considering you have been basically giving it mostly pink rodents (IMO not the most nutritious for any animal),
do you think that feeding it entirely on fish would would increase its growth rates or just give a better diet?

Also anyone else who has actually dealt with crocodiles in captivity feel free to give your opinion.

Cheers 
Mulgaaustralis


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 11, 2012)

to tell ya the truth we alway got told with our other croc to get him eating rats he wouldn`t touch em so i thourght rats mice and fish would be the best thing for him i was going to start puting calcium and vitamin`s in the rodent`s


----------



## richardsc (May 11, 2012)

if they can do it outside,why isnt it viable for indoors?

4 to 5 and still in an aquarium of 6 to 8 feet says its not being kept right to me,if anything,housing indoors with ideal conditions year round,and no shortage of food should see them far outgrow outdoors and wild ones

people jump on folk if there lil childrens python has only doubled its hatchy size in 4 to 5 years,whats different with crocs

to me thats like keeping a scrubby in a hatchling rack for 4 to 5 years and saying its ok,i rarely feed it ,its still alive so alls good

just because u keep something doesnt mean your an expert,ive never kept crocs,i couldnt supply them what they need,so im no expert,but common sense can answer alot of the questions

to the original poster,if fur concerns u,there is always the option of skinning them,pain in the butt i know but an option none the less if fur balls concern you


----------



## JAS101 (May 11, 2012)

fuzzy and even hopper mice should be ok for the croc , as the fur isnt as dence as say a wiener or sub adult . but if your worried then just feed it fuzzy mice . i have a platy breeding tank for my croc - once the small fish get 1-2 cm i put them in the croc tank , they keep growing in ther until he bumps them off .


----------



## Kareeves (May 11, 2012)

I found that keeping crocodiles is much the same as keeping turtels. If it lives in water then feed it animals that also live in water and around water.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 11, 2012)

richardsc said:


> if they can do it outside,why isnt it viable for indoors?
> 
> 4 to 5 and still in an aquarium of 6 to 8 feet says its not being kept right to me,if anything,housing indoors with ideal conditions year round,and no shortage of food should see them far outgrow outdoors and wild ones
> 
> ...


yeah that what ill once he gets bigger but for the moment he`s only small so he can have feeder fish yabbies once i can find some small one`s and pick mice and rats


----------



## Clarke.93 (May 11, 2012)

.


----------



## thomasssss (May 11, 2012)

i agree clarke.93 a . . . . . it is then


----------



## Kam333 (May 11, 2012)

Just like I pointed out in an earlier post, it appears that it is a prerequisite to flame, shoot and belittle the OP at the beginning of a post. . . then some sensible responses.


----------



## chook11212 (May 11, 2012)

they cant eat fish all the time fish dont have all the nutrients they need meat with supplement powder should help with nutrition you can get it from most pet shops for reptiles


----------



## dozerman (May 11, 2012)

Is thiaminase an issue with crocs being fed mainly fish when in captivity?


----------



## dadaman (May 12, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> When can I feed my pet elephant peanuts.


Mine ate hay from the word go. Peanuts just for a treat. My elephant was going good until my Satly Croc ate it.



CaptainRatbag said:


> No, just stun the rats first by putting the tail in one side of a power point and its bottom teeth in the other side. Yes, force feeding is good..... suck the rat up into a bike pump then screw the pump into hatchies mouth and pump really hard. If you hear a loud popping noise... stop pumping


I am laughing that hard, I am crying. This has to be the best example of force feeding I have ever read on these forums


----------



## slim6y (May 12, 2012)

I remember I asked a question once when I couldn't find the 'exact' answer from google, books or someone else local. So I decided to put it to the experts who actually owned the type of animal that was in question so they could, with experience, answer my question.

Seems ridiculous really - that in 4 pages of answers (not including mine) I only read a tiny handful of a) replies that are justified and b) that are on task. 

Good luck with ya freshy mate - I can imagine you'd got it from a breeder - were they not all too happy to help?


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 12, 2012)

i didn`t get him from a breeder just some one that was moving interstate and couldn`t take him i think the deal was and id say he didn`t no about the fur ball`s as well cause he said he wont touch mice with fur on


----------



## crocodile_dan (May 12, 2012)

After reading through this thread debating whether to reply I thought I would reply with references from primary literature.

As found by Webb (1982) the most important prey of freshwater crocodiles was aquatic and terrestrial insects, fish and crustaceans. With an increase in crocodile body size an increase in the proportion of aquatic prey was consumed. Vegetation was found in 39.9% of crocodile stomachs, parasites were present in 43.8% and 88.2% of crocodiles had stones present in the stomach.

A study by Garnett (1986) on parameters affecting growth of saltwater crocodiles in captivity concluded that diets of pork and beef were superior to fish.

Webb (1991) found that the average juvenile diet of saltwater crocodiles is characterized by 70-71% water, low fat levels 3-4.5%, high protein content 12.7-14.7% and Ca from 7:1 in animals 300-599 mm TL declining to 2:1 in animals 900-1200 mm TL. Captive crocodiles mean food conversion rate is 17-40% as compared to wild counterparts of 82.4%. Wild crocodiles require food equivalent to 4% of its body weight per week while captive crocodiles require four times that amount (16% body weight).

Now to give my personal views. A varied diet is always best, for juvenile crocs I would feed twice a week on crickets, pinky mice, beef heart, beef liver, kangaroo mince (with vitamin and calcium supplement mixed in), chicken, yabbies, freshwater shrimp, small feeder fish (rainbow fish). If you want to get more technical about dietary components then use the above references. In regards to stones, crocs ingest stones to help in mechanical digestion in the stomach. In regards to vegetation present in stomach content I would assume the majority is ingested during prey acquisition, but I have known one juvenile salty to tear up and consequently swallow two water lilly plants over the space of 6 months, whether this is relevant to diet I don't know he was just a cranky boy.

Oh and yes I do have experience in crocs 

References:
Webb, GJW, Manolis, SC and Buckworth, R (1982). Australian Journal of Zoology, 30, 6, pp. 877-899.
Garnett, ST and Murray, RM (1986). Australian Journal of Zoology, 34, 2, pp. 211-223.
Webb, GJW, Hollis, GJ and Manolis, SC (1991). Journal of Herpetology, 25, 4, pp. 462-473.


----------



## reptilesrkool (May 12, 2012)

thanks crocodile_dan that is some really good info i new about the rock and digestion but didn`t ow about that in the wild there none to eat vegetation thank mate im bout to go shoping to get some some more tuker lol


----------



## crocodile_dan (May 12, 2012)

I don't know whether they actively consume vegetation as a part of their intended diet, I would assume it is far more likely that when they strike at prey items they may inherently get a proportion of vegetation ingested. Being the study animals were juveniles and the majority of prey were invertebrates the majority would be found in and around plant matter. One issue with dietary analysis is the over representation of harder to digest items and the underrepresentation of easily digested items, all the items in the study would have relatively hard body parts (exoskeletons, scales, plant matter) when looking at the data objectively there is likely to be prey items included in the diet that would not have been detected in the study, from the date of the study we can know that modern techniques and technology were not available for this study.

Aside from the croc and water lily I observed my old manager told me a similar thing happened in an older exhibit where the croc destroyed the aquatic plants, there was no comment on whether they were ingested though.


----------



## tweety2 (May 12, 2012)

hey mate we have had our freshie for nearly 12 months now we feed him feeder fish chunks of chicken meat crushed up chicken necks and crushed up chicken wings as well as velvet rats as a treat we feed him some roo meat, but were told that if you dont want him to grow too quickly to only feed red meat every so often as red meat bulks them up quick hope that helps and enjoy ur croc mate they are great


----------



## CaptainRatbag (May 14, 2012)

Breed hairless mice or rats? Ingie on here is a genetic ace.... she might be able to help you. She has a beautiful :shock: hairless rat called Fugly (for some reason) :lol: she might know where to get (or have) a hairless strain? My local (Beerwah qld) petshop sells hairless mice, I know, because some of my mice are bald as :shock: It is like they are 'pre-skinned (skun?)

Next problem? 



reptilesrkool said:


> gday guys just wondering at what age/size i can feed my my year old+ freshwater crocodile mice or rats with furr cheer`s




How big/small is he? I for one would love to see a pic of you feeding him


----------



## Kam333 (May 14, 2012)

To the OP this is the dribble you may have to wade through to get a sensible answer. I am amazed that the usual offenders havent started screaming "troll" with the typical limited intellect, you have toughed it out this far (congrats, seen many disappear from less) there are some good responses from some knowledgeable non egotistical people.
Just out of curiosity why mice ( more expensive per kg than chicken)? I asked a friend if he fed his crocs mice and his reply was that mice would be a less likely food source for freshies than fish, crustations and small water birds. He also mentioned that yes crocs (both sp) are known to eat vegetation. Good luck.


----------



## Magpie (May 14, 2012)

crocodile_dan said:


> After reading through this thread debating whether to reply I thought I would reply with references from primary literature.
> 
> As found by Webb (1982) the most important prey of freshwater crocodiles was aquatic and terrestrial insects, fish and crustaceans. With an increase in crocodile body size an increase in the proportion of aquatic prey was consumed. Vegetation was found in 39.9% of crocodile stomachs, parasites were present in 43.8% and 88.2% of crocodiles had stones present in the stomach.
> 
> ...




I find the feed conversion rates between captive and wild crocs astounding. I have to wonder at the cause of this and whether any further research has been done.
In regards to the vegetative matter, one of the main feeding methods of freshies that I have observed it to sit in running water with their mouths open and snap at anything that enters their mouth. Obviously a lot of leaves, sticks and stems would be consumed this way.
In regards to the flaming of the OP, some things never change.


----------



## Poggle (May 14, 2012)

Magpie said:


> I find the feed conversion rates between captive and wild crocs astounding. I have to wonder at the cause of this and whether any further research has been done.
> In regards to the vegetative matter, one of the main feeding methods of freshies that I have observed it to sit in running water with their mouths open and snap at anything that enters their mouth. Obviously a lot of leaves, sticks and stems would be consumed this way.
> In regards to the flaming of the OP, some things never change.



Have to agree with you Magpie, the conversions rates are unreal.... i may be blind, if so up me for it, but this data is it acrosss the board, for both sp?



Kam333 said:


> To the OP this is the dribble you may have to wade through to get a sensible answer. I am amazed that the usual offenders havent started screaming "troll" with the typical limited intellect, you have toughed it out this far (congrats, seen many disappear from less) there are some good responses from some knowledgeable non egotistical people.
> Just out of curiosity why mice ( more expensive per kg than chicken)? I asked a friend if he fed his crocs mice and his reply was that mice would be a less likely food source for freshies than fish, crustations and small water birds. He also mentioned that yes crocs (both sp) are known to eat vegetation. Good luck.



unforunatley ya lways get dribble now days  and being slammed makes ya stronger... christ knows i have been flamed to many times :S alot of people will go mice as they see it as a varied diet, offering the whole animal and providing nutrition from hair etc.


----------



## crocodile_dan (May 14, 2012)

I mentioned the date these studies were conducted in my second post, so it is understandable to look at this study quite objectively.

Personally I think stress is a major contributor, stress and adrenaline has such a profound effect on crocs that many physiological parameters are influenced by it. My professor was C.E. Franklin who has demonstrated the adrenergic effect on crocodilian lingual salt glands and cardiac function. Whilst I have no primary literature to support such hypothesis I would initially suspect stress would play a primary role in the difference. I will try and obtain a copy of the paper to see what is mentioned in the discussion in regards to this matter.

Ok so after reading a few articles I have taken out snippets of relevant findings, but essentially the difference is not known and I can't find any remotely relevant recent publishing on the matter. Some of the possible suggestions are stress, frequent filling of the stomach, fat diet in captivity, metabolic scaling and possible clutch variation.

Direct quote (without intext references) from the discussion in Webb (1991):
"The reason food conversion rates in the wild are much higher than those reported in captivity are unknown. Conditions in captivity could be far more stressful than is generally recognized, although corticosterone levels in captive _A. mississippiensis_, maintained at low densities, suggest this is not the case. In the wild, _C. porosus_ do not appear to have the opportunity to fill their stomachs each time they feed, which usually occurs in captivity. This raises the possibility that the physiological mechanisms associated with the digestion and assimilation of food may not function as efficiently when the stomach is repeatedly filled to capacity. Captive hatchling _C. porosus_ fed daily have food conversion rates (28%) that were appreciably lower than those fed every two days (40%)."
He also mentioned the above average abundance of rats in the study site during the study which were recorded in the stomach contents of some animals.
The wild study sample attains an average 730 mm TL and 870g in one year, whereas the average farm raised individual attained 750 mm TL and 1360g in one year. So captive stock are much heavier per unit length.

From Garnett and Murray (1986):
Investigating the parameters affecting the growth of estuarine crocodile. Individuals from some clutches responded positively to stress, while those from other clutches responded negatively. It was concluded that clutch variations explained the majority of the variation in all variables in this study, it was undetermined whether the clutch-related factors were genetic or environmental.

From Garnett (1988):
Up to 92% of protein in captive estuarine crocodiles was digested but protein was adversely affected by high levels of dietary fat.


----------



## Cyann (May 14, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> I have a hatchy childreni and I've put a couple of adult rats in with it but for some reason it hasn't eaten them can any one help please. Should I just force feed it the rats and do I need to kill the rats before I try and force feed them thanks inadvance


why so harsh? thats just down right nasty, im sure youve asked questions before, so you dont have to be such a b*&$# about it? alrighty?


----------



## black_headed_mon (May 14, 2012)

maybe the childish people on this thread should take a gander at "a plea to all forum users" thread, then they might learn something


----------



## Poggle (May 14, 2012)

crocodile_dan said:


> I mentioned the date these studies were conducted in my second post, so it is understandable to look at this study quite objectively.
> 
> Personally I think stress is a major contributor, stress and adrenaline has such a profound effect on crocs that many physiological parameters are influenced by it. My professor was C.E. Franklin who has demonstrated the adrenergic effect on crocodilian lingual salt glands and cardiac function. Whilst I have no primary literature to support such hypothesis I would initially suspect stress would play a primary role in the difference. I will try and obtain a copy of the paper to see what is mentioned in the discussion in regards to this matter.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the extra info Dan


----------



## Rocky (May 16, 2012)

I see a lot of "He shouldn't own it" "he should have researched it before buying" "How can you buy an animal without knowing anything about it". Well, He shouldn't own it, but he does, yes he should have researched it, but he didn't. And he bought the animal without knowing anything about it. These are the facts. Another fact is that every comment stating this information is excessively pointless. Should of could of would of. HE DIDN'T so now we HELP the idiot learn about his unfortunate animal before it dies. 

Do we understand kids? (On a side note I cannot help in any way shape or form as I know nothing about freshies, so my post is just as irrelevant as all of yours)

When did APS become so Bitchy? Bloody keyboard warriors, unhappy with their own failed lives so they hit the internet up to flame every one. Most threads I visit now have some moron flaming away. I'll come round and douce you with a fire extinguisher next time, noobs.


----------



## Trueblueboy (May 16, 2012)

i would say that it would eat it and if it's not big enough it will probably rip it to smaller pieces


----------



## PythonLegs (May 16, 2012)

Rocky said:


> When did APS become so Bitchy? Bloody keyboard warriors, unhappy with their own failed lives so they hit the internet up to flame every one. Most threads I visit now have some moron flaming away. I'll come round and douce you with a fire extinguisher next time, noobs.



You're going to use a fire extinguisher on these keyboard warriors? I wonder which one you are, the pot, or the kettle?


----------



## JAS101 (May 16, 2012)

ok pepole lets get it back on topic , hows the croc doing ?


----------



## Rocky (May 16, 2012)

PythonLegs said:


> You're going to use a fire extinguisher on these keyboard warriors? I wonder which one you are, the pot, or the kettle?



Neither, I'm Human. The extinguisher should help the flames die down.


----------



## dozerman (May 16, 2012)

dozerman said:


> Is thiaminase an issue with crocs being fed mainly fish when in captivity?



any takers?


----------



## backyardhabitat (May 22, 2012)

*thiaminase*

Hi I too have a crocodile in QLD but mine is saltwater, as i have mine on an exchange program with the crocodile farm. I find the farm is a great place to obtain all the husbandry information you require. they are very happy to help. and i have found them invaluable. i feed mine chicken necks and kangaroo meat(no preservatives) you can private message me if i can help you more.



dozerman said:


> any takers?



Thiaminase
I think you will find this interesting as i did, a topic i had not done much reaserch
on.


----------

