# Reptile Sales In Shops In NSW



## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

This really annoy me, so i'd though i'd post and see how many people this annoys to.

Why is it not legal to sell reptiles through pet stores in NSW. I mean, there are private breeders out there, but it is hard to find the right reptiles your looking for. If reptile could be sold in pet stores in NSW, it would be so much easier.

Any thoughts people?


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## Deano (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeh but it would be much more expensive to purchase a reptile in a pet shop, I would just stick with the private breeders JMO…………


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

Sure finding certain reptiles would be easier for those not willing to look hard enough; but pet stores are notorious for distributing the wrong information out. Not only that, but their prices are generally something to be laughed at. I'll stick to private breeders with ongoing after sales help anyday thanks!


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

Thats true, but you can look so hard you finally find one, but i find some to be kinda dodgy


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## hornet (Feb 15, 2007)

and petshops are not dodgy?


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

I wouldnt know, i live in NSW where they dont sell


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Well coming to Newcastle from Victoria where I could walk to any of a number of pat shop and buy a reptile was great and most of the shop owners knew what they where talking about.
Like Amazing Amazon sold gts- But have never seen or heard of one in NSW.
You could get your reptile from the shop and if there was anything wrong or you had a question about the reptile you could just go back to the shop.
Can't always do that here.
Every person on APS and NSW should make a protest. Letters or we all meet at the steps of the NSW Gov


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## FAY (Feb 15, 2007)

You have to be VERY careful to buy from any petshop as far as I am concerned. JMO
In our experience people who have bought reptiles from us have a lot of ongoing questions that they would like to be answered....who in a pet shop will give you that back up service or will actually know anything about most of the reptiles, you are much better buying from a breeder who has known the animal from day one, you just have to make sure that you buy from a reputable breeder???


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

EXACTLY king, thats what we need here, reptile stores in NSW where u can buy, chat, ask for help, or even just the casual browse for the curious eye.

The NSW government need to set the sights straight, and change the laws to allow NSW reptile stores.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Everyone who is in NSW so fare has said "You have to be VERY careful to buy from any petshop as far as I am concerned" Where they don't have a shop that is selling reptiles (what the)


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

Well dont pet stores breed there own reptiles too sell, so they would know the reptile from hatching


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## hornet (Feb 15, 2007)

Auz, people do travel and when herpers travel they look at other pet stores, and no, most buy them from breeders


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

So in NSW I am to say "You have to be VERY careful to buy from any breeders as far as I am concerned" We both know that both can lead you a stray


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## RevDaniel (Feb 15, 2007)

i think i would become very annoyed if they ever permitted reptiles to be sold in petshops across NSW.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Any way given QLD shops have only been able to sell reptiles from shops in the last year. There still got a lot to learn - but in Vic they have been selling reptiles for same time and all the ones I got to know would buy there reptile from guess where Breeders so no one would lose out.


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 15, 2007)

So your saying that you would also be annoyed if you lived in another state where they do sell reptile in stores?


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

RevDaniel said:


> i think i would become very annoyed if they ever permitted reptiles to be sold in petshops across NSW.



Why Daniel?


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## FAY (Feb 15, 2007)

What do you mean 'what the' about being VERY careful..............you can go on pet shops history of selling birds, cats and dogs etc.........................there is no way I would buy them from a pet shop....and I don't care what anyone says....reptiles are much more fragile to look after!!!!!!

How many dogs and cats get stress related diseases....and stop eating??????????

How many puppies and kittens will stop eating from over-handling??? Stress out because of wrong temps?????
I am not saying ALL pet shops are bad...but a lot only think of the almighty dollar and not the animals welfare!


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## Carnie (Feb 15, 2007)

I am in SA and we have specific reptile shops. This is where I bought my python from (Reptile City at Christies beach) and you couldn't ask for better service. I bought my python 18 months ago and rang up only last week for some advice and they were only too happy to help. I think it migh be a case of some of you are hapy with the current situation in NSW and therefore don't think a change is needed. Just because you can buy a snake from a pet shop doesn't mean you have to.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

There's good and bad in everything.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> Any way given QLD shops have only been able to sell reptiles from shops in the last year. There still got a lot to learn - but in Vic they have been selling reptiles for same time and all the ones I got to know would buy there reptile from guess where Breeders so no one would lose out.





GARTHNFAY said:


> What do you mean 'what the' about being VERY careful..............you can go on pet shops history of selling birds, cats and dogs etc.........................there is no way I would buy them from a pet shop....and I don't care what anyone says....reptiles are much more fragile to look after!!!!!!
> 
> How many dogs and cats get stress related diseases....and stop eating??????????



And this doesn't happen with some breeders?
There is good and bad in any part of this and all i'm saying is we should have a choice.
Or should we just sit here like little kids and be told to do what the NSW Government tells us to do.


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## Charlie (Feb 15, 2007)

I just think it's annoying that we have a restriction that provents us from becoming "commercial" breeders.where pretty much every where else you can


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Bad shops don't last long as too bad breeders


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## Chris1 (Feb 15, 2007)

after reading about the conditions reptiles are kept in in american shops, i'm glad i dint have to see that here. bad food, no UV, no heat, bad substrate, and ya know when u see a dead fish in teh fish tank in a pet shop, well, some of them have dead beardies just lying there, or some getting eaten by their siblings cos theyre so hungry.
i'm so glad i'm not confronted by stuff like that when i go to a petshop, i'd be the busiest person in the world trying to get places shut down,..!!!

i'm not saying it would be like that here, but it sounds horrible how theyre mistreated in petshops over there!!!


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## FAY (Feb 15, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> And this doesn't happen with some breeders?
> There is good and bad in any part of this and all i'm saying is we should have a choice.
> Or should we just sit here like little kids and be told to do what the NSW Government tells us to do.



And did I not say ' Make sure you buy from a reputable breeder' !!!!!!


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

Chris1 said:


> after reading about the conditions reptiles are kept in in american shops, i'm glad i dint have to see that here. bad food, no UV, no heat, bad substrate, and ya know when u see a dead fish in teh fish tank in a pet shop, well, some of them have dead beardies just lying there, or some getting eaten by their siblings cos theyre so hungry



Thats horrific!!!


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

since i have started working in my mates shop which sell reptiles iv told them to upgrade all the enclosure's so recently i have been putting in UVB/UVA lights in for all the reptiles cleaning there enclosures more often then what they did and giving all the lizards a mixed diet aswell as snakes shop we care alot about or reptiles in our shop i have told them to bring prices down and we have had alot of reptiles sold within a couple of weeks of reciveing them so not all pet shops are bad


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## hornet (Feb 15, 2007)

but thats coz they got a herper working there now, most dont


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

So ok 1 we shut down all pet shops and only buy from reputable breeder' !!!!!!
How many people know a reputable breeder' !!!!!!
Why can we also buy from a reputable shop? !!!!!!


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## Chris1 (Feb 15, 2007)

also, having them in petshops promotes impulse shopping without doing the research first,..i'd much rather people have to research stuff and track down an appropriate breeder themselves, theres nothing more exciting than counting down the days to when u get to pick up ur new pet having made susre everythign is ready fro it!!!


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

hornet said:


> but thats coz they got a herper working there now, most dont


 
well every pet shop should lol


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## NCHERPS (Feb 15, 2007)

Pet shops will eventually be allowed to sell reptiles in Petshops here in NSW, but the consultative committtee and NSW NPWS want to make sure that all the mistakes made by other states are not repeated and that the welfare of the animals can be the No.1 priority over the profit.

This may mean that only certain species are allowed to be sold, like QLD and certain cage display requirements, size, UV etc...
Until it has all been worked out to everyones satisfaction it won't get signed off, that coupled with elections etc means realistically I reckon it will be at least 2-3 years before the minister signs off on it.

So, no amount of protesting or petitions will make any difference, it will happen, they will allow it to happen, theres just alot of red tape to get through until it does.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

hornet said:


> but thats coz they got a herper working there now, most dont



Funny thing so did all the Victorian shops because you need to know what your selling to keep up with the next shop - but hay that will never be aload to happen in NSW i guess.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

nook171 - do you get a lot of ppl coming in asking how to look after reptiles that are wild caught, eg, beardies? There are soooo many ppl where I come from that just go out and catch hatchling beardies, carpets etc - it's a real problem.


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## dickyknee (Feb 15, 2007)

I was in a pet shop last week and over heard the guy telling a lady that she needs to put one teaspoon of "baking soda " in her aquarium to raise the ph levels ..not sure what that will do to your fish ....but i do know the advice is wrong .
And this happens all the time with young , inexperienced people working in pet shops .
( i worked in an aquarium for 5 years and heard some shocking stories about advice given in other shops )
If they are sold i think reptile only shops , not common "pet" shops should be allowed , that way you may have more chance of the people working or who own the shop being more informed as they only sell reptiles .


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

As I said from the start - if you can;t be bothered in nsw to find a reputable breeder and do your research, you shouldn't be getting reptiles at all. Pet stores for the most part are just businesses trying to make profit. No matter how friendly they claim to be , most give out the wrong advice or give out advice that panders to you buying their products. 

Wouldnt the consumer/hopeful herp owner to be want to be treated with quality aftersales service, knowing that their chosen herp has not been contaminated by a plethora of variables that you would encounter in the less than ideal conditions of a pet store?

Thats not to say the stores in Vic or SA or even QLD are by and by shonky - I'm sure they're probably run quite well (some on the other hand...But then again the same can be said for anywhere) - but there is an undeniable pattern in the conditions and so on of NSW pet stores, and I'm not talking about the happy ambience.

I would firmly vote NO on reptiles to being sold in pet stores. Were that to happen, any joe bloggs off the street (presumably with a license though I'm betting some pet stores would turn a blind eye (one store in particular recently tried to sell me firebellied newts and corn snakes under the counter) just to make a quick buck. 

And then all of a sudden we have a boom of people buying these snakes, being spoon fed misinformation, then piling into this site screaming WHY ISNT MY SNAKE EATING, or even worse, people that just buy these pretty animals at the store, without doing any research into them whatsoever, and creating monsterous hybrid abominations.

Anyone else feel like standing on my soapbox? I'll make room...


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

Mystery said:


> nook171 - do you get a lot of ppl coming in asking how to look after reptiles that are wild caught, eg, beardies? There are soooo many ppl where I come from that just go out and catch hatchling beardies, carpets etc - it's a real problem.


 

we get heaps of people we had a guy bring in a 7ft carpet asking if we would buy it off him but we done a tally one week and we had 27 people saying they had caught and kept the reptiles:x


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

The only way i think it could work is if there was an accreditationn system setup were a pet shop could sell reps as long as they passed certain criteria . M aybe have some sort of course they could do to get a reptile trade licence then have a condition that NPWS can do spot checks at any time unnanounced and if there are any issues bye bye rep trade licence.I would be more than happy to see us join the other states that allow it . As Auzlizardking says bad shops wont last long as im sure we'd all be on here telling everyone if we came across anything untoward.Why can i by a native bird from a shop but not a reptile? As long as the person purchasing is licensed the shop meets its criteria i9 cant see any reason that it cant be properly enforced.


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

dickyknee said:


> I was in a pet shop last week and over heard the guy telling a lady that she needs to put one teaspoon of "baking soda " in her aquarium to raise the ph levels ..not sure what that will do to your fish ....but i do know the advice is wrong .
> And this happens all the time with young , inexperienced people working in pet shops .
> ( i worked in an aquarium for 5 years and heard some shocking stories about advice given in other shops )
> If they are sold i think reptile only shops , not common "pet" shops should be allowed , that way you may have more chance of the people working or who own the shop being more informed as they only sell reptiles .


 

we tell people to put such an such in to stop amonia and to lower the ph levels but never herd of baking soda to raise the ph thats stupid


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> The only way i think it could work is if there was an accreditationn system setup were a pet shop could sell reps as long as they passed certain criteria . M aybe have some sort of course they could do to get a reptile trade licence then have a condition that NPWS can do spot checks at any time unnanounced and if there are any issues bye bye rep trade licence.I would be more than happy to see us join the other states that allow it . As Auzlizardking says bad shops wont last long as im sure we'd all be on here telling everyone if we came across anything untoward.Why can i by a native bird from a shop but not a reptile? As long as the person purchasing is licensed the shop meets its criteria i9 cant see any reason that it cant be properly enforced.


 
the guys who own the shop tony/martin had to do courses ect ect to be able to sell reps


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

Those of you in states that allow shop sales are they diseased ridden overcramped knowledgeless dumps ? Or a worthy addition to the hobby ?


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

Whats even more ludicrous is that Kellyville pets already DOES allow you to purcahse reptiles, though only after participating a "How to keep" 1 hour class or something. Then a few animals (direct from breeders) are available to be purchased. This isn't the stupid part though, the really sad part is that Kellyville Pets labels certain snakes in an interesting fashion. For example: "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles"....


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> Those of you in states that allow shop sales are they diseased ridden overcramped knowledgeless dumps ? Or a worthy addition to the hobby ?


 
if youm are talking to about the pet shop i work at they are all worthy addition to any ones hobby


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## Tatelina (Feb 15, 2007)

Why would you want to go to a shop where they concentrate on add on sales and the profit margin when you can get to know local breeders who adore their animals and breed for the love and excitement of it?


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

it's not always about profit well with us it isnt


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

gaara said:


> Whats even more ludicrous is that Kellyville pets already DOES allow you to purcahse reptiles, though only after participating a "How to keep" 1 hour class or something. Then a few animals (direct from breeders) are available to be purchased. This isn't the stupid part though, the really sad part is that Kellyville Pets labels certain snakes in an interesting fashion. For example: "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles"....



And sending of a form and a cheque for a licence is adequate ? The whole nsw system needs an overhaul. A country wide system is what is really needed each state with the same laws and systems in place


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

then as a business you fail, which is why I hate pet stores because profit making and the love of animals never really mix


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Tatelina said:


> Why would you want to go to a shop where they concentrate on add on sales and the profit margin when you can get to know local breeders who adore their animals and breed for the love and excitement of it?



So what is a ad on sale with a snake?


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

Tatelina said:


> Why would you want to go to a shop where they concentrate on add on sales and the profit margin when you can get to know local breeders who adore their animals and breed for the love and excitement of it?



And theres no breeders about chasing dollars ?


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

some breeders do it for the money


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> And sending of a form and a cheque for a licence is adequate ? The whole nsw system needs an overhaul. A country wide system is what is really needed each state with the same laws and systems in place


 

You want to go there? Ok lets open that seperate can of worms. Who wants to discuss the flaws in the NSW licensing system - my main gripe is the ability for identity theft. Other than that, the thought of a possible spot inspection is ok, somewhat.


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## NCHERPS (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> The only way i think it could work is if there was an accreditationn system setup were a pet shop could sell reps as long as they passed certain criteria . M aybe have some sort of course they could do to get a reptile trade licence then have a condition that NPWS can do spot checks at any time unnanounced and if there are any issues bye bye rep trade licence.I would be more than happy to see us join the other states that allow it . As Auzlizardking says bad shops wont last long as im sure we'd all be on here telling everyone if we came across anything untoward.Why can i by a native bird from a shop but not a reptile? As long as the person purchasing is licensed the shop meets its criteria i9 cant see any reason that it cant be properly enforced.



Unfortuantely, there are a fair few badly run pet shops in NSW, and the authorities don't appear to be on top of the challenge of policing them properly. The consultative committee want to come up with a list of guides lines and rules that have to be followed and hopefully it will work.

There will almost certainly be a training course for shop staff and a qualification of some sort as the authorities recognise that reptiles have specialised needs.

Unfortunately, you will always get the bad apples, wether Private breeders or Pet shops, and it is upto the public to report the shops that keep animals poorly, as the once a year inspections just aren't enough.

I would hope that the vast majority will do the right thing, I am sure they will, and it will open up the hobby to alot more people than ever before, because alot of people are just not aware of the reptiles available privately.


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## gaara (Feb 15, 2007)

with strict supervision and enforcement I can see it working, but what's the likelyhood of that? Do you southerners from SA and Vic find that pet stores and private breeders compete with each other for prices, or does one or the other remain dominant?


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## Hickson (Feb 15, 2007)

For those of you that earlier argued that NSW people don't have pet shops selling herps, so how can we say they are bad? This thread is typical of threads like this that have been cropping up periodically on APS since it's inception a few years ago.

This is how we know what some pet shops selling reptiles are like. And some of us have travelled and visited them.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=35655



Hix


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> The only way i think it could work is if there was an accreditationn system setup were a pet shop could sell reps as long as they passed certain criteria . M aybe have some sort of course they could do to get a reptile trade licence then have a condition that NPWS can do spot checks at any time unnanounced and if there are any issues bye bye rep trade licence.


 
That is how it works in Qld - commercial license for pet shops is a compulsory six week course. National Parks comes and checks the shop before you add reptiles to make sure everything is satisfactory and can do random spot checks at any time.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

Again why shop at Woolies - why not buy from the grower how loves growing his veggies and so on so on
It's the covenants


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

Hix - it's like floggin a dead horse.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> Again why shop at Woolies - why not buy from the grower how loves growing his veggies and so on so on
> It's the covenants



Well said.


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## zulu (Feb 15, 2007)

*re Reptile*

reptiles were protected in NSW in the first place because of shonky pet shops,the system we have now is good,if petshops were to be granted rights to sell we would have to have dealers in NSW and theres GST registration and tax tax taxs,no one actually pays tax now do they?


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

Mystery said:


> That is how it works in Qld - commercial license for pet shops is a compulsory six week course. National Parks comes and checks the shop before you add reptiles to make sure everything is satisfactory and can do random spot checks at any time.



It's the only way it can work and we as enthusiasts need to blab as soon as any thing untoward pops up.And Hix thers no breders with sub standard conditions about ? 1 bad pet shop and its curtains for all ?


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

last year the pet shop that i work at had 3 spot checks in the year


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

Zulu - have they ever been allowed to sell reps in NSW Pet Shops? I didn't even know they weren't allowed to.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> It's the only way it can work and we as enthusiasts need to blab as soon as any thing untoward pops up.



I agree totally. There's nothing wrong with blabbing for the love of an animal - no matter what it be. I did it not so long ago and National Parks was there the next day.


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## zulu (Feb 15, 2007)

*re Reptile*



Mystery said:


> Zulu - have they ever been allowed to sell reps in NSW Pet Shops? I didn't even know they weren't allowed to.


Hi Mystery,before they were protected in about 74 or 1975 they were just collected and sold,i remember cabramatta pet shop in sydney with alpine blotcheys crowded into wire bird cages,carpets and diamond kept in atrocious conditions.They used to sell diamonds and carpets etc at petersham petshop and the same bloke sold them at a stall in Paddys markets,common blueys 1$ blotchys 2$ capets10$ diamonds 20$ and sometimes theyd charge buy the foot for the really big ones.The bloke that sold them at paddys and petersham was actually a great bushman and he caught many of the diamonds down south coast NSW,i knew a few old bushys that knew him.Reptiles were also often sold in the free adds section of the sunday telegraph,used to be fun seeing what was going on sundays.


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## Hickson (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons75 said:


> It's the only way it can work and we as enthusiasts need to blab as soon as any thing untoward pops up.And Hix thers no breders with sub standard conditions about ? 1 bad pet shop and its curtains for all ?



Of course there are bad breeders around. But that's no reason to allow petshops to sell reptiles. The bad breeders are a problem, so why make the situation worse?

All I'm saying is that we hear bad stories of petshops, and yet we still want to start that here. Over the years here I've seen threads of Petshops that have dead animals in tanks, cages that are filthy as they haven't been cleaned for ages, and gross mis-advice - salespeople selling Children's Pythons with UV lights because it's essential, or telling the new python owner to vary the snakes diet from mice to include woodies, crix and vegetables.

A friend I work with in Sydney tried to buy a small heatmat for her Hermit crabs recently, and the petshop told her it was illegal for them to sell a heatmat without a thermostat. This is a shop that I know is keen to sell herps. 

But it will happen in NSW. Unfortunately.



Hix


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## Aslan (Feb 15, 2007)

I wouldn't buy a dog from a pet store - I certainly wouldn't buy a reptile...

There are very few that I would buy any animal from whatsoever....

...and there are stores in Sydney that have reptiles advertised in their stores (I would imagine one of the employees breeds them) and they are horrendously overpriced animals...


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## Hickson (Feb 15, 2007)

One other thing some of you might want to consider -

It's often said in APS "I have no problem with you having a Diamond X Coastal, as long as you tell people that's what it is when you sell it".

If you sold one to a petshop, and told them what it was, and it looked like a Diamond, what do you think the Petshop will sell it as (espec. when purebred Diamonds usually command a higher price than crosses).

Just something to think about.



Hix


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah your right hix and thats why the policing of it needs to be so heavy. i was talking to this fella recently and when i explained the current process involved in buying reps his response was "it's a lot of work much easier to just go bush and grab your self a snake "


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

It is a shame for the honest ones that are busting their butts to try to do the right thing. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.


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## zulu (Feb 15, 2007)

*re Reptile*



Hix said:


> One other thing some of you might want to consider -
> 
> It's often said in APS "I have no problem with you having a Diamond X Coastal, as long as you tell people that's what it is when you sell it".
> 
> ...


Yeh Hix,thats how it goes,if it looks like a rat it an eats cheese its a rat,some big dealers do exactly what your saying,very few crosses go onto the books as crosses.


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## Jason (Feb 15, 2007)

dickynee-
"I was in a pet shop last week and over heard the guy telling a lady that she needs to put one teaspoon of "baking soda " in her aquarium to raise the ph levels ..not sure what that will do to your fish ....but i do know the advice is wrong."

some fish thrive and live much better in a higher ph! discuss fish for instance breed much better at a ph around 6 with some people keeping them as low as 5.6, not having a go just thought you may find it interesting.


gaara-
Whats even more ludicrous is that Kellyville pets already DOES allow you to purcahse reptiles, though only after participating a "How to keep" 1 hour class or something. Then a few animals (direct from breeders) are available to be purchased. This isn't the stupid part though, the really sad part is that Kellyville Pets labels certain snakes in an interesting fashion. For example: "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles"....

hi mate just thought i would mention that do little farm are the ones running the reptile courses through shops. the honey jungles are just an atherton jungle which he sells for 600 and the Psuedo jungles are just a natural interegrade (port macs) which he believes to look like a jungle, they are also roughly 600. his animals are nice but well over priced!!!!! it really anoys me when i see poeple bying athertons for 600 cause they are "honey jungles" i would consider giving 200 but dont rally want them anyway.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

dragons said:


> i was talking to this fella recently and when i explained the current process involved in buying reps his response was "it's a lot of work much easier to just go bush and grab your self a snake "



And this is what peevs me off to no end!! Then you get into the live feeding - no UV for the beardies etc. They are too tight to go out and spend a couple of hundred dollars, get a license and do it the right way.


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## Troy 1000 (Feb 15, 2007)

yeh it maybe easier from a pet shop, I don't know other states but the chances of getting a stressed out HErp would significantly increase. As you would have kids tapping on glass and wanting to handle a lot. Our petshops are in shopping centres so it would be loud also .So anyone just starting out may get tagged quite a lot and would turn them away from this style of pet.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Feb 15, 2007)

i would rather buy from private breeder anyday!


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## Lozza (Feb 15, 2007)

I don't think a lot of pet shops in NSW should be able to sell any animals let alone reptiles.
Just look at the conditions they keep their other animals in -they're dodgy as.
Bad pet shops don't shut down, coz they're all about as bad as each other here. At one my local petshops there's a guy claiming to be a reptile specialist and he donsn't know squat about them or products -they're just in it to make a buck and will try to pull the wool over your eyes to do it. Trouble is most of their customers don't know any better so follow their advice.

I'm not bagging out pet shops in other states that do sell reptiles coz I haven't seen them but all the ones here are that I've seen are dodgy and shouldn't be allowed to.


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## Jason (Feb 15, 2007)

i work at a pet shop and i wouldnt by a herp from a shop even if it was from my shop!! at the end of the day the herps that shops would buy would be the cheapest things they could find!!! and they would sell them for heeps more then they are worth and they wouldnt move at those prices! i personally think its a terrible idea and as i said i work at a pet shop and imo one of the best and cleanest well maintained shop around!!!! and still my answer and opinion is NO!!!


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## whiteyluvsrum (Feb 15, 2007)

nook171 said:


> last year the pet shop that i work at had 3 spot checks in the year



3 checks out of 365 days is not much.


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## Troy 1000 (Feb 15, 2007)

there is a pet shop at Kellyville that you can buy but it is through a breeder, they also do a course where you can learn to care and handle it who it is also the same breeder.


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## Mystery (Feb 15, 2007)

lozza said:


> I don't think a lot of pet shops in NSW should be able to sell any animals let alone reptiles.
> Just look at the conditions they keep their other animals in -they're dodgy as.
> Bad pet shops don't shut down, coz they're all about as bad as each other here. At one my local petshops there's a guy claiming to be a reptile specialist and he donsn't know squat about them or products -they're just in it to make a buck and will try to pull the wool over your eyes to do it. Trouble is most of their customers don't know any better so follow their advice.
> 
> I'm not bagging out pet shops in other states that do sell reptiles coz I haven't seen them but all the ones here are that I've seen are dodgy and shouldn't be allowed to.



It does sound like there are some bad ones in NSW by what everyone is saying.


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## dickyknee (Feb 15, 2007)

Jason said:


> dickynee-
> "I was in a pet shop last week and over heard the guy telling a lady that she needs to put one teaspoon of "baking soda " in her aquarium to raise the ph levels ..not sure what that will do to your fish ....but i do know the advice is wrong."
> 
> some fish thrive and live much better in a higher ph! discuss fish for instance breed much better at a ph around 6 with some people keeping them as low as 5.6, not having a go just thought you may find it interesting.
> ...


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## nook171 (Feb 15, 2007)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> 3 checks out of 365 days is not much.


 
some shops down the road didnt get on visit at all


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## whiteyluvsrum (Feb 15, 2007)

cool dude


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## Oxyuranus microlepid (Feb 15, 2007)

hmm.... it is a bit strange....


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## sengir (Feb 15, 2007)

*For All You Who Reckon You Know*

I have seen this sort of debate before. You all say pet shops are bad there so bloody bad. Quit your bloody winging and open one where you supply that service that is so good and exceptional same as a private breeder. There has been people who have had bad dealings with private people to. Get over it. If you did your research properly spent the time to look around and really research, then you would find maybe not in NSW but in other states there are pet shops that actually do supply you with that after sales help and ongoing support, ready to answer all your questions. I know of a pet shop that gives out an A/H number so if you have any questions you can call them. Why do you say Auzlizardking that QLD shops have a lot to learn, yeah they maybe only have been able to sell reptiles through the shop for a while but doesn't mean they have only had any interest or knowledge on them for the same amount of time. And as for pricing you all winge. I saw spotted pythons advertised in a pet shop for $195 the other day. Correct me if I am Wrong and I sure as hell don't think I am, But 95% of spotteds I see advertised on the various forums on the net including this website, have them advertised for $200. May only be a 5 dollar difference but still is actually cheaper, cimbine that with the shop that is willing to help with any after sales questions, etc, then I would have to say, You obviously have a better deal buying from a pet shop.
I agree it is not always so, not all pet shops are helpful and reasonably priced, but they are only giving the good ones a bad name, and people who complain about these pet shops who are bad then wreck it for the ones that don't do the wrong thing. Don't make a general assumption if you or a friend have had a bad experience wiht a pet shop name the bloody shop don't just go and say Shops in general.
Would be a lot nicer that way, and that way people could make up there own mind with the junk that so many people speak. Don't mean to get up anybodies nose, but JMO

Cheers


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## whiteyluvsrum (Feb 15, 2007)

na, haven't converted me sengir! no pet stores for me!


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## sengir (Feb 15, 2007)

Not tryin to convert anyone, just wish people would bad mouth the shops they have had bad dealings wiht not all shops as not all shops are bad. People with shops have to feed their families to you know.

Cheers


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## Tatelina (Feb 15, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> So what is a ad on sale with a snake?



This fantastic heat rock that provides heat which they need dispite that they often burn animals, these mice that may or may not have worms or been killed humanely, this ridiculous water dish that you don't need but they have too much stock off, this vitamin powder stuff which the label says you need to get them to eat lots of, this budgie that you'll need to kill later to vary its diet, ofcourse this additional tank aswell to feed it in, and oh dont forget these books about herps that have been printed in the states about exotic reptiles so you know what you're doing.. and hey why you're at it why don't you just buy a fantastic new enclosure for your pet from us considering its all oh-so-conveniant for you all in one store!!

I am NOT saying that all pet shops are like this and that ALL breeders know what they are doing and aren't in it for the profit... I'm trying to show that IMO more often than not petshops don't gaf about learning about the necessary things or simply don't have the time or resources to research and know what they are selling.
Keeping animals in overcrowded cages with hardly enough room to excersise doesn't install a sense of confidence in myself that they are going to learn and provide all the necessary needs for reptiles.
And don't even get me started on buying from backyard breeders just to keep their supply of animals up...


dragons75 said:


> And theres no breeders about chasing dollars ?


Read above reply.


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## Tatelina (Feb 15, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> Again why shop at Woolies - why not buy from the grower how loves growing his veggies and so on so on
> It's the covenants



Oh for goodness sake! That is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day.
We are not talking about the *convenience* of buying something that is dead. We're talking about living, breathing creatures!


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## IsK67 (Feb 15, 2007)

gaara said:


> Whats even more ludicrous is that Kellyville pets already DOES allow you to purcahse reptiles, though only after participating a "How to keep" 1 hour class or something. Then a few animals (direct from breeders) are available to be purchased. This isn't the stupid part though, the really sad part is that Kellyville Pets labels certain snakes in an interesting fashion. For example: "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles"....



So does "My Best Friend" at St Mary's. The courses are run by a member of this site. It is his descriptions "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles" that are being used.

IsK


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## Troy 1000 (Feb 15, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> So does "My Best Friend" at St Mary's. The courses are run by a member of this site. It is his descriptions "Psuedo Jungles" and "Honey Jungles" that are being used.
> 
> IsK


You do not have to do the course to purchase the reptile you just pick up on the SAt after every one is finished. I am doing the course on the 25th. It is $70 for about 3 hours. Yes the names are bloody ridiculus


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## whiteyluvsrum (Feb 15, 2007)

sengir said:


> Not tryin to convert anyone, just wish people would bad mouth the shops they have had bad dealings wiht not all shops as not all shops are bad. People with shops have to feed their families to you know.
> 
> Cheers



are you a pet shop owner???
i hear violins!


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## wood_nymph (Feb 15, 2007)

i work in a pet shop and have asked this myself before. the answr i got was that because in nsw indivuals are licensed to keep reptiles every single person who worked there and in theroy would be caring for them would have to be licensed. i think there are also laws against commerical breeding and selling in nsw. 
at one point we were just looking at having a shop reptil of some descrption and we couldn't even do that.


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## wood_nymph (Feb 15, 2007)

oh and also yes animals in pet shops are more expensive but keep in mind we don't breed the animals ourselves. we pay what everyone else would pay for them we then take the risk that they have some kind of defect we pay for all they're vet work and the customer walk away with a garentee that the animal they've purchased is 100% and legal areegment that if they're not they can get compension or return.
sorry the pet shops charge too much thing really annoys me, we're a shop we have to make a profit on top of everything.


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## Aslan (Feb 15, 2007)

A good breeder will also give you a health guarantee...and in the case of most dogs that health guarantee covers genetic problems for life...

...and we all understand pet shops are out to make a profit, but common sense should tell you that customers are out to not get ripped off...


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## dragons75 (Feb 15, 2007)

Aslan said:


> A good breeder will also give you a health guarantee...and in the case of most dogs that health guarantee covers genetic problems for life...
> 
> ...and we all understand pet shops are out to make a profit, but common sense should tell you that customers are out to not get ripped off...



So why do so many get sucked in on pet link ?


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## Aslan (Feb 15, 2007)

...the same reason pet stores still manage to sell animals...some people do no research and don't care where there animal comes from...


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## zulu (Feb 15, 2007)

*re Reptiles*



sengir said:


> Not tryin to convert anyone, just wish people would bad mouth the shops they have had bad dealings wiht not all shops as not all shops are bad. People with shops have to feed their families to you know.
> 
> Cheers


Worry about your own state,dont need petshops selling in NSW,the states too big for the job of policing by the NPWS,better for people to buy at expos and society days that allow selling like the one planned for this sunday by Macarther Herp Society.They have had permission granted to sell by the NPWS,thats a very good thing,dare i say an extremely positive thing by parks and wildlife and the society,peop-le can come along and look and buy those that are for sale by showing their license.The concept is a step forward in the right direction for sure by the most proggressive herp society in australia.


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## Auzlizardking (Feb 15, 2007)

After thinking about it - I have decided No Shops in Nsw should sell reptiles - But I feel places like Gosford reptile park should- One it would help keep a great park open and you would be getting a reptile from people who care about the animals.
And I sell enclosures to people cheaper then what they can from the shops - so I understand people objections on shop prices. And yes I sell to shops as well.
There are some really great shops in Melbourne and some really bad shops that should be closed down and also some here in NSW that need to be closed down - anyone been to Cardiff would know who im talking about.


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## sengir (Feb 15, 2007)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> are you a pet shop owner???
> i hear violins!


 
You know what you can do with your violin, And no I don't own a pet shop I know people that do. Like I have stated before I am not saying all pet shops should be allowed to sell reptiles but there are some that should and who do look after there reptiles and give the right advice.


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## sengir (Feb 15, 2007)

Aslan said:


> A good breeder will also give you a health guarantee...and in the case of most dogs that health guarantee covers genetic problems for life...
> 
> ...and we all understand pet shops are out to make a profit, but common sense should tell you that customers are out to not get ripped off...


 
Yeah they are out to make a profit and different pet shops have different mark ups on their animals, not all of them are out to rip their customers off.


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## Troy 1000 (Feb 15, 2007)

Tryhubaberry said:


> This really annoy me, so i'd though i'd post and see how many people this annoys to.
> 
> Why is it not legal to sell reptiles through pet stores in NSW. I mean, there are private breeders out there, but it is hard to find the right reptiles your looking for. If reptile could be sold in pet stores in NSW, it would be so much easier.
> 
> Any thoughts people?


 
Looks like you started a good one here.


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## Hawk (Feb 15, 2007)

Worry about your own state hey Zulu :shock: 
I thought this site was called Aussie Pythons and snakes, not NSW pythons and Snakes


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## sengir (Feb 16, 2007)

Hawke said:


> Worry about your own state hey Zulu :shock:
> I thought this site was called Aussie Pythons and snakes, not NSW pythons and Snakes


 

Nicely Put.


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## Hickson (Feb 16, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> After thinking about it - I have decided No Shops in Nsw should sell reptiles - But I feel places like Gosford reptile park should




The Reptile Park would have a very hard time being able to sell reptiles to the public, considering they are a Federally approved Quarantine premise.

That's why the Snake Ranch is a separate entity.



Hix


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## zulu (Feb 16, 2007)

*re Reptile*



Hawke said:


> Worry about your own state hey Zulu :shock:
> I thought this site was called Aussie Pythons and snakes, not NSW pythons and Snakes


Theres no democracy round here LOL go play with your toads!


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## zulu (Feb 16, 2007)

*re Reptile*



sengir said:


> Nicely Put.


Tell someone that cares!


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## FAY (Feb 16, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> After thinking about it - I have decided No Shops in Nsw should sell reptiles - But I feel places like Gosford reptile park should- One it would help keep a great park open and you would be getting a reptile from people who care about the animals.
> And I sell enclosures to people cheaper then what they can from the shops - so I understand people objections on shop prices. And yes I sell to shops as well.
> There are some really great shops in Melbourne and some really bad shops that should be closed down and also some here in NSW that need to be closed down - anyone been to Cardiff would know who im talking about.



Well, what a turn a round???

We tell all the people who buy beardies off us NOT to feed them mealworms until they are adults.....they go to the pet shop ('cause they think what the pet shop tells them is kosher) the pet shop tells them...oh you can feed them mealworms (just for a sale).....bingo one dead or very close to dying hatchling beardie!! Yeah...they know what they are talking about!!


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## Twiggz (Feb 16, 2007)

For it to work successfully (ie Pet shops selling repts in NSW), they would need to be solely orientated around reptiles- a specialty shop. But even still with this said any old joe could set one up with no idea of the products they were selling nor idea of the hobby itself, there would still be alot of doubt, sales pitching, mis information and so on.

It would take, someone in the hobby, with a fair bit of experience in a vast range of species to successfully accomplish this i feel.

JMO


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## Bryony (Feb 16, 2007)

I never have and never will buy any animal from a pet shop.


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## Twiggz (Feb 16, 2007)

And thats probably the safest thing to do Bryony.

Going straight to the breeders has far to many advantages. You get first hand advice from someone in the know (most of the time), and IMO this is something pet shops will never rise to.


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## wardy (Feb 16, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> There are some really great shops in Melbourne and some really bad shops that should be closed down and also some here in NSW that need to be closed down - anyone been to Cardiff would know who im talking about.



That shop is horride and defently needs to be shut down my sister reported it but nothing has happened i mean i walked in there and there was goat crap all over the floor dogs running free birds every were i even seen a dead rat in the dam fish filter?.


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## pedro (Feb 16, 2007)

Paying import/export license fees, organizing & paying freight, getting to the freight drop off point on a certain day is a real hasstle especially if you don't live near the designated airports in regional NSW when you buy interstate. You can't always buy what you want locally. I'm sure selling in pet shops would overcome a lot of acquisition problems.


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## zulu (Feb 16, 2007)

*re Reptile*



pedro said:


> Paying import/export license fees, organizing & paying freight, getting to the freight drop off point on a certain day is a real hasstle especially if you don't live near the designated airports in regional NSW when you buy interstate. You can't always buy what you want locally. I'm sure selling in pet shops would overcome a lot of acquisition problems.


Its very easy for the average person in sydney,wollongong,central coast to get the type of species such as beardys,bluetongues,carpets,childrens pythons etc that would be sold in petshops,unless they live in woop woop where they wouldnt have a pet shop anyway.Its good for the average person to go to a herp meeting or do a little searching on the internet,with the more common species there is mostly a breeder nearby.


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## Tryhubaberry (Feb 19, 2007)

Gee i never realised how many people had thoughts on the exact same topic as me, be it good or bad


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## snake351 (Feb 20, 2007)

*petshops*

I reckon you should be allowed to sell them in shops. I have brought animals when I first started and had problems and the BREEDER would not help at all and told me i was on my own . When i purchased my first bh and had trouble getting it feeding i rang the breeder for advise and he said it will be fine for 16 weeks without food ha ha it died .
I now go to a reptile shop in liverpool and they have been more then helpful. they have not claimed to know it all but they have gone out of there way to help not like the breeders i have dealt with.
so i reckon that petshops should be allowed anyway if there is a problem you still will have the same legal rights if it was a dog or cat. The department of fair trading didn't care when i approached then about my bh and told me they couldn't do a thing. so i say yes to petshops I don't thing that prices will drop I think everyone would be happy


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## Chris1 (Feb 21, 2007)

snake351 said:


> I reckon you should be allowed to sell them in shops. I have brought animals when I first started and had problems and the BREEDER would not help at all and told me i was on my own . When i purchased my first bh and had trouble getting it feeding i rang the breeder for advise and he said it will be fine for 16 weeks without food ha ha it died .
> I now go to a reptile shop in liverpool and they have been more then helpful. they have not claimed to know it all but they have gone out of there way to help not like the breeders i have dealt with.
> so i reckon that petshops should be allowed anyway if there is a problem you still will have the same legal rights if it was a dog or cat. The department of fair trading didn't care when i approached then about my bh and told me they couldn't do a thing. so i say yes to petshops I don't thing that prices will drop I think everyone would be happy



wow, that must have been the worlds worst breeder!
i rang Roy Pails @ least 5 times when i got Loki,...not for a problem with the snake, but to get advice on finding him after he escaped his tank the first night. he was such a nice concerned and helpful guy and didnt make me feel stupid or try to get me off the fone or anything, he even asked me to call back and let him know when i found him.


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## Chimera (Feb 21, 2007)

I think you'll find overall it will depend on the individual breeder/petshop.

After reading some of the horror stories posted on this site about the condition reptiles are kept in pet stores I'm quite happy for things to stay the way they are.


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## snake351 (Feb 21, 2007)

i Spoke to roy pails in melb and brought some things from him too he is great but the breeders i refer to are here in nsw


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