# Energy bills...



## pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2016)

Just wondering about the amounts members pay for heating their herps, prompted by the "Let's see herp rooms and cages" thread. This is not an issue for keepers with one or two critters, but for those with larger collections, it's something that needs to be considered. The Spencer's enclosure shown by J.Lane for example, seems to show some serious power chewing gear to keep the critter warm, and this is necessary, of course, for monitors in particular, but there must be huge loss of heat through natural convection and dissipation. On the other hand, Scott's setup looks well insulated and self-contained, so is probably as economical as it can be to operate.

What steps do members take to reduce the impact of their herps on energy bills, especially in winter, when many of our houses are not set up to retain adequate warmth 24/7 in the cooler months? Josch, I'm guessing that you have central heating in your home in Germany, this would serve to keep the ambient or background temperature at a reasonable level, which in turn would reduce the energy your enclosures consume, given your fondness for high-heat loving lizards like Frillies?

Effective insulation seems to be the single most useful tool in reducing power consumption, and would be most useful in a "whole building" approach, but I'm curious if energy costs are something that keepers consider as their collections grow, and what they do about it? 

Jamie


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## Waterrat (Sep 13, 2016)

Hi Jamie, I guess I don't qualify to comment on this topic.


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## pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2016)

Waterrat said:


> Hi Jamie, I guess I don't qualify to comment on this topic.



No Michael, you don't! I have to admit that you and your idyllic location crossed my mind as I was putting this thread together ! Deb & I saw that beautiful garden just out of Cairns on Gardening Australia last Saturday, and I almost convinced her that we need to move there asap! Any work for psychologists in that neck of the woods? We'll come up & see you in the forseeable future...

Jamie


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## Waterrat (Sep 13, 2016)

My neighbor could do with a few sessions but I think psychiatrist would be better suited for him. lol
I still pay hefty electricity bill ... aircons, swimming pool pump, etc., necessities in the tropics plus electricity is more expensive up here due to lack of competition, Ergon is the only provider.

M


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## pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2016)

Ah yes, you don't need artificial heat for your critters in the garden, but you do need to keep the environment comfortable for humans... I'm still looking for that Death Adder by the way !

Jamie


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## Smittiferous (Sep 13, 2016)

I do the pay-by-the-fortnight thing with all my utilities which ends up $119 per fortnight for power and gas combined, with fourteen enclosures varying between 25 watt to 300 watt draw. Mind you, my housemate works from home so he's home almost 24/7 with computers and central heating running (the latter aiding with heating my animals a little). Recently I've been making a few energy-conscious alterations for basking and background heating, replacing the conventional 80 degree 100 watt spot globes with 50watt mini flood light globes, and using bluestone pavers for all basking sites. Been getting better basking spot temps with these at the same distance (up to 60 degrees at 30-40cm once the bluestone warms up) and as the bluestone soaks up a ton of heat during the day, it does a great job radiating that heat back out at night. Got the idea from my aunt who lives in a hobbit house (no kidding), the daytime sun is soaked up by bluestone tiles inside which then heat the house up at night.

For my two mertens and the mangrove, I have their basking spots in contact with their water on the underside, which does a fantastic job of passively heating their water also. I only have one water heater (for the adult mertens), and it's only supplementary.


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## imported-varanus (Sep 13, 2016)

In one word, "brumation". This doesn't apply to the newly hatched, obviously, so I go low wattage heat cable/ insulation and/ or the ProHerp heat panels overnight. I've recently decided to focus on larger monitors that can all go outside, eventually, partly as a consequence of huge hikes in power bills. The sun's still free, at least for now.


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## Wally (Sep 13, 2016)

Work more overtime.


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 13, 2016)

Keeping my few lizards warm and happy is a very small part of our household energy bill (just a few 7W heatpads, 26W UBB200s and 80W par38 globes - our home is all electric, retired couple home all day most days , aircon on 24/7 in summer and winter (hey if you want to be warm in winter or comfortable in summer and especially sleep well on those very hot steamy nights - aircon is the way to go , and don't whinge about paying for the electricity. We can on our tight budget (we simply budget for it).

Most the keepers who have large collections of reptiles and lots of high wattage basking lights also operate their collections as breeding programs and "second" jobs , so they will be offsetting the costs of their electricity against any income they receive from the hatchlings they are selling each season in their annual tax returns. If they are not doing so they need to find a new tax accountant.


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## pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2016)

"Most the keepers who have large collections of reptiles and lots of high wattage basking lights also operate their collections as breeding programs and "second" jobs , so they will be offsetting the costs of their electricity against any income they receive from the hatchlings they are selling each season in their annual tax returns. If they are not doing so they need to find a new tax accountant."

That's a very sweeping assumption. I've only known a couple of keepers in 50 years who acknowledge any income from breeding reptiles in their tax returns, and that's because the make $50K+ in a year. I also know very few keepers these days who would do much more than cover costs - energy, food, housing & associated gear etc, if they're very lucky, with their breedings. I would say that if the ARE doing so, they need to find a new accountant.

Jamie


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## Nero Egernia (Sep 13, 2016)

Electricity is one of the reasons I try to seek out species and locales that live in a similar climate to the one I'm currently living in (except for the Frill Necks). That way, I only focus on the hot spot and the ambient temperatures are just left to the way they are, as that's what my lizards would experience if they were in the wild. But like my lizards, I definitely prefer the heat over the cold. I hate winters, and summer can't come fast enough.


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## Smittiferous (Sep 13, 2016)

As reptile keeping is (as far as I am aware) classed as a "hobby" then I'd imagine in the eyes of the ATO they wouldn't really consider it worthy of their attention. My old man tried to declare his earnings from selling custom modified nitro model aircraft engines, he was told it as it was a "hobby" therefore it was not genuine taxable income. Or words to that effect.


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## pinefamily (Sep 13, 2016)

Up until recently, we were still getting a $500-$600 electricity bill per quarter, even with 18 solar panels. We had the panels before our collection grew as large as it did. That bill covered 27 pythons and 18 lizards of various kinds. Even with 2 of Steve's excellent vision racks, the power bill was high.
Circumstances have brought us to move to the country shortly, with a downsizing of our collection, and several or our larger monitors moving to permanent outdoor enclosures.


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 13, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> "Most the keepers who have large collections of reptiles and lots of high wattage basking lights also operate their collections as breeding programs and "second" jobs , so they will be offsetting the costs of their electricity against any income they receive from the hatchlings they are selling each season in their annual tax returns. If they are not doing so they need to find a new tax accountant."
> 
> That's a very sweeping assumption. I've only known a couple of keepers in 50 years who acknowledge any income from breeding reptiles in their tax returns, and that's because the make $50K+ in a year. I also know very few keepers these days who would do much more than cover costs - energy, food, housing & associated gear etc, if they're very lucky, with their breedings. I would say that if the ARE doing so, they need to find a new accountant.
> 
> Jamie



If they are making $50k+ per year from their day job , then even a quite a large collection and the costs associated with this (electricity consumption especially) will be pocket change to them even if they have a quarterly household electricity bill of $1000 - $1200 .... but if they can't afford their herp room power consumption they need to really reconsider their budgeting priorities or downsize the collection.

I've known quite a few people who had hobbies that became part-time second jobs who were quite easily able to claim their costs against their total individual incomes and offset any losses made if they made a loss and legitimate deductions. This is also how negative gearing works BTW and this is considered legitimate by the ATD. So if your tax accountant isn't factoring your micro business breeding and selling reptiles into your annual tax you really need to sack the tax account and find a better one.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Sep 13, 2016)

Power cost is not something I even look at to be honest.
The bill is whatever it is, (around 1000-1200 a quarter), it arrives and gets paid.
If power costs rise will I reduce my collection?.....Probably not.
I keep reptiles because they fascinate me, its my passion. It costs what it costs and while I can afford to keep the animals I have I will continue to do so.

I breed a few each year but they don't even cover the outgoings without taking heating into account. 

On the point of the ATO, doesn't matter if it's a hobby or not guys. If you make a profit it is supposed to be declared as income. If you were hatching 50k worth of eggs every year and not declaring it/justifying the costs against the income you would be guilty of tax evasion. Just ask you accountant next time you do your tax return. The rules are quite sketchy but hobby income is still income and is taxable.


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## pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> If they are making $50k+ per year from their day job , then even a quite a large collection and the costs associated with this (electricity consumption especially) will be pocket change to them even if they have a quarterly household electricity bill of $1000 - $1200 .... but if they can't afford their herp room power consumption they need to really reconsider their budgeting priorities or downsize the collection.
> 
> I've known quite a few people who had hobbies that became part-time second jobs who were quite easily able to claim their costs against their total individual incomes and offset any losses made if they made a loss and legitimate deductions. This is also how negative gearing works BTW and this is considered legitimate by the ATD. So if your tax accountant isn't factoring your micro business breeding and selling reptiles into your annual tax you really need to sack the tax account and find a better one.



It should have been pretty clear that I was saying they earned $50K from selling offspring, not from their day job. Earnings these days are far less than the days when we could get $5-$7K each for baby GTPs, and the other common pythons are often very hard to sell at any price now. Combined with the fact that spending habits and priorities have also changed drastically in the last six years, it all makes for much reduced profits which, meshed with increasing energy & shipping costs, make it far less likely that keepers who breed moderate numbers of animals will actually turn a profit. In any event, I started this thread to enquire primarily how hobbyists manage their energy bills, not those who declare their activities a business and can thus claim their costs.

As an aside, I contacted the ATO some years ago when I was doing contract work for a number of museum-type organisations. I was at the time breeding some reptiles and had a pair of productive Blue & Gold Macaws. There was some evidence of income generated by these activities, but the ATO wasn't interested as it was regarded as hobby income - none of the costs were claimed under my ABN.

Jamie


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## imported-varanus (Sep 13, 2016)

Now I'm thankful the dingo ate a hole in my matress.


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## Josch (Sep 14, 2016)

Yes Jamie, I have central heating in my home and in the basement. In winter, this makes things easier, but I still have a monthly electricity bill over $350 in a 4 person household (9000 kw per year). But reptiles are not only my hobby but my passion. The only positive, more space is not disposal :cry:


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## andynic07 (Sep 14, 2016)

My electricity bill is about $600 a quarter and I have a 5 KW solar system on my roof. 


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