# Culling questions.....



## KaaTom (May 9, 2009)

I picked up a heap of mice today and was wondering what the most humane way of culling pinkies is? I have heard that using co2 doesnt work as well with pinkies opposed to the others (cant see why) and was wondering what everyone else thinks on this?


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## Vixen (May 9, 2009)

They do take alot longer to die using CO2. What I do is gas them in a bag, then place the bag ontop of a frozen freezer block, theyre usually out within minutes.


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## Lewy (May 9, 2009)

I think that c02 is not a good idea for pinky's the simplest way is to just throw them on to a tile floor dead every time fast and humane

Pleases dont use Co2 for pinky's and please dont just put them in the freezer

Lewy


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## Mudimans (May 9, 2009)

Not the most pleasant but i find throwing them on a concrete floor quite hard works a treat. I've tried gassing, breaking necks and clonking pinkies but there is to much room for error those ways where as the throw works first time and is very quick


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## brycehf (May 9, 2009)

i Use a soda stream and chinese container for a c02 gas chamber. Cheap to make and works in a humane manner


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## Lewy (May 9, 2009)

Me I hate co2 I think its not a very nice way to do it BUT if you can't do it by clonking then its the next best thing 

But should NEVER be used on pinky's!!!!!!!!!


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## Vixen (May 9, 2009)

Lewy said:


> But should NEVER be used on pinky's!!!!!!!!!


 
Care to explain why instead of just saying don't do it?

I just gave a method that kills them as quickly as any other sizes, and I know alot of people who do the same thing. Its no less humane than gassing an adult rodent. 

I didnt say to put them straight in the freezer, I said to gas them first which pretty much makes them unconcious within seconds, then place them on a cold block until they stop breathing.


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## australia09 (May 9, 2009)

hmm i would go with co2 as a humane way although concrete would be good.. downside is the guts,blood ect that can possibly happen.


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## australia09 (May 9, 2009)

i just thought of something ive seen people do this with chickens, get a metal or so tray put a bit of water in it and stick some live pinkieso n it and get an electric current and zap the water, will fry their brain instand and is very humane. thats how they kill chickens in the industry


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## abbott75 (May 9, 2009)

australia09 said:


> downside is the guts,blood ect that can possibly happen.



Concrete used to be my method. I never had one pop.

Nowadays I old by the tail, press down on the neck and pull on the tail. Very quick. I'd probably still use the throw at floor method on pinkies.


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## Lewy (May 9, 2009)

VixenBabe said:


> Care to explain why instead of just saying don't do it?
> 
> I just gave a method that kills them as quickly as any other sizes, and I know alot of people who do the same thing. Its no less humane than gassing an adult rodent.
> 
> I didnt say to put them straight in the freezer, I said to gas them first which pretty much makes them unconcious within seconds, then place them on a cold block until they stop breathing.


 

Ummm I never said that you said to put them in the freezer you should read my post again 

Killing rodents with co2 is not a fast way to kill them its slow and distressing IMO 

I think the best way to kill them is by clonking them, works every time and they are dead in a split of a second they also do not spoil themselves witch stinks


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## daniel1234 (May 9, 2009)

abbott75 said:


> Concrete used to be my method. I never had one pop.
> 
> Nowadays I old by the tail, press down on the neck and pull on the tail. Very quick. I'd probably still use the throw at floor method on pinkies.


 
What size rodent you doing this to?


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## Vixen (May 9, 2009)

Lewy said:


> Ummm I never said that you said to put them in the freezer you should read my post again
> 
> Killing rodents with co2 is not a fast way to kill them its slow and distressing IMO
> 
> I think the best way to kill them is by clonking them, works every time and they are dead in a split of a second they also do not spoil themselves witch stinks


 
Sorry I thought it was directed at me, was just making sure.

But if done correctly I dont think its that distressing at all. Of course if you go and pump 100% straight CO2 it would be, but if done slowly and gradually its fine. Of course there are better gasses to do this with but not that we can freely get our hands on and that wont leave residues in the tissue.

Some of us arent that strong of heart that we can throw something against the ground to kill it, or break their necks etc.


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## Lewy (May 10, 2009)

VixenBabe said:


> Sorry I thought it was directed at me, was just making sure.
> 
> But if done correctly I dont think its that distressing at all. Of course if you go and pump 100% straight CO2 it would be, but if done slowly and gradually its fine. Of course there are better gasses to do this with but not that we can freely get our hands on and that wont leave residues in the tissue.
> 
> Some of us arent that strong of heart that we can throw something against the ground to kill it, or break their necks etc.


 

LOL that's cool!!! and yer I no its not easy to kill the way I do It took me some getting use to and I would never say I like doing it I hate ending any animal's life 

Happy mothers day every one 

Lewy


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## jack (May 10, 2009)

i dont know why people with a small collection to feed mess about with CO2, there is nothing as quick as throwing them at the floor.


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## Fireflyshuffle (May 10, 2009)

funny how you are all talking about what is and isnt HUMANE here, which you have to sit back and think, why are you all saying throwing it on the ground is humane? BE FOR REAL! its cruel, and inhumane lol you cannot throw an animal on the ground in front of an rspca officer could you? So gassing is the most LEGAL and HUMANE way id say. I mean hell, i throw babys on the ground lol but dont go saying its humane.. i think the majority of you just tend to belive it becasue thats all you know. or all you have ever done.


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## jack (May 10, 2009)

schnakey, you clearly have a different opinion as to what is "humane". As far as I am concerned, "Humane" is to show compassion toward an animal, and I do that by killing it as quickly and painlessly as possible.


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## cris (May 10, 2009)

jack said:


> schnakey, you clearly have a different opinion as to what is "humane". As far as I am concerned, "Humane" is to show compassion toward an animal, and I do that by killing it as quickly and painlessly as possible.



Yeah but if you slowly suffocate or freeze them, you see them alive, walk away and when you come back they are dead like you get from the shop. Apparently its more humane to pretend you arnt killing them.


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## euphorion (May 10, 2009)

CO2 and freezer for pinkies, CO2 for fuzzies or bigger. Have clonked them on the head before but i'm too weak to keep doing it, CO2 seems the best compromise. Has anyone tried breaking the neck by pulling the tail? I was advised to hold them down by placing a pencil/stick over the neck and then give the taila sharp pull, it breaks their neck and their dead straight away. Takes longer than just throwing them at the ground, but much less mess involved.


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## Barno111 (May 10, 2009)

The easiest way for me and the most humane way, i find is a simple flick to the back of the head! with adult mice and rats just a bonk with a pair of tongs or a old pan just on the head usally kills them pritty quick! and you dont have to do it hard if you hit the right place! They only time would set up a co2 system is if i had about 20 rats to cull at once! even then i would find it much easier just to throw them at a all! Sorry to anyone whom thinks that sounds mean but i dont discourage they way you take the word humane!


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## abbott75 (May 10, 2009)

shooshoo said:


> Has anyone tried breaking the neck by pulling the tail? I was advised to hold them down by placing a pencil/stick over the neck and then give the taila sharp pull, it breaks their neck and their dead straight away.





abbott75 said:


> Nowadays I hold by the tail, press down on the neck and pull on the tail. Very quick.


...


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## Lewy (May 10, 2009)

jack said:


> schnakey, you clearly have a different opinion as to what is "humane". As far as I am concerned, "Humane" is to show compassion toward an animal, and I do that by killing it as quickly and painlessly as possible.


 


cris said:


> Yeah but if you slowly suffocate or freeze them, you see them alive, walk away and when you come back they are dead like you get from the shop. Apparently its more humane to pretend you arnt killing them.


 

Couldn't agree more!!!!!!!

Lewy


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## KaaTom (May 10, 2009)

I guess not everyone is going to agree and have the same ideas....


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## Barno111 (May 10, 2009)

no one will ever agree on what is humane for culling becuase everyone has different points of view! And really they way epa see's it, there is no humane way to kill a animal! So pritty much everyone is breaking the law even with gasing! So whatever works best for you, and what you feel is the most humane way of culling then go ahead becuase its really no one elses business on how you feel and how you cull the food sorce for your snakes/reptiles!


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## Bax155 (May 10, 2009)

BLAH BLAH BLAH they are food for gods sake who cares whats more humane and whats not as long as the job gets done!!


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## Vixen (May 10, 2009)

Bax155 said:


> BLAH BLAH BLAH they are food for gods sake who cares whats more humane and whats not as long as the job gets done!!


 


Lots of people care including me, they may be destined for snake food but that doesnt mean they arent entitled be treated like the living feeling animal they are. If anything it makes them MORE entitled as without them we wouldnt be able to KEEP any snakes as easily as we do.


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## abbott75 (May 10, 2009)

Bax155 said:


> BLAH BLAH BLAH they are food for gods sake who cares whats more humane and whats not as long as the job gets done!!



Comments like that are what turn the general public against reptile keepers.


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## Noongato (May 10, 2009)

When i get the mouse pinkies i cant simply throw them on the floor as theyres oil and stuff from the bikes. So i just flick them hard and fast in the head and they die pretty quick.
Rats i just cant bring myself to kill as theyre so much bigger and tougher and smarter.
I still feel for the mice i kill, and try and have them dead as fast as possible, even if it ends up being messy, im sure i can just do a cleanup rather than having them slowly suffer cos i dont want a bit of nose blood splatter.


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## asis (May 10, 2009)

I used to be a clonker, but its a pain wacking 30 or 40 mice and rats a week and even more of a pain culling 50 or more fuzzies. I already had a CO2 cylinder sitting in the shed for my keg set up :lol: so it was an easy choice to use CO2 for culling.


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## mckellar007 (May 10, 2009)

i was out culling rats yesterday and was working at a rat of about 20 wpm(wacks per minute) quick, easy, effective. pinkies are easier, hold their head and flick them in the brain, dead in seconds. i find using a brick is more humane then co2, and ffaster, if i have 70 rats to cull, i can take 5 mins smacking them on a brick, or i can spend 4 mins setting up a gassing chamber and another 3-5 mins waiting for the little buggers to die. then doing it all over again because the gass chamber isnt big enough.


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## asis (May 10, 2009)

Only reason I use gas is because its there and easy. Ive got a fair size chamber with a ball lock quick disconect post the same as my kegs.


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## Lewy (May 10, 2009)

Bax155 said:


> BLAH BLAH BLAH they are food for gods sake who cares whats more humane and whats not as long as the job gets done!!


 

You no Its people like you who shouldn't have the right to own reptiles as you are oviestly just a pore cruel little boy


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## GTsteve (May 10, 2009)

australia09 said:


> i just thought of something ive seen people do this with chickens, get a metal or so tray put a bit of water in it and stick some live pinkieso n it and get an electric current and zap the water, will fry their brain instand and is very humane. thats how they kill chickens in the industry


 

This sensible reply seems to have been missed or ignored. It sounds like a viable alternative - especially if its how we kill our own food. I would think/hope it has been decided it is the most humane way to cull. Can you elaborate anymore?


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## trento (May 10, 2009)

have to agree with the throwing them at the floor method and with older ones i found co2 not as fast as a grab on the neck and a good shaking crack 3/4 times they seem to panic to much with co2


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## Vixen (May 10, 2009)

trento said:


> they seem to panic to much with co2


 
If done correctly there should be no panicking. You are probably introducing too much CO2 too quickly. It should be done at a rate of 30% the volume of the container every minute.


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## theduclos (May 10, 2009)

im only going to weigh into this argument on one point. 

if all living creatures are the same and feel the same amount of pain. whats the difference between throwing a mouse/rat at the ground for a quick kill and feeding my ewd 20 live insects. arent i being inhumane by live feeding crickets/woodies?

you need to kill the animal. i would rather die a crude efficient death then a drawn out asphyxiation


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## Goodoo (May 10, 2009)

GTsteve said:


> This sensible reply seems to have been missed or ignored. It sounds like a viable alternative - especially if its how we kill our own food. I would think/hope it has been decided it is the most humane way to cull. Can you elaborate anymore?


 
The electrocution method sounds dangerous and unreliable. If you are not an electrician you would be more likely to kill yourself.

As for what you would do in front of a RSPCA inspector, some are probably sensible but as the RSPCA is now controlled by animal liberationists they would do all they could to stop you killing any animals if they had their way. That organisation now has lost all credibility in the ability to say what is humane and what is not, and I would not be game to do anything in front of them.

I believe the most humane is the quickest and that would be a sudden impact. (eg. cement floor)


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## jessb (May 10, 2009)

GTsteve said:


> This sensible reply seems to have been missed or ignored. It sounds like a viable alternative - especially if its how we kill our own food. I would think/hope it has been decided it is the most humane way to cull. Can you elaborate anymore?


 
Don't think it is wise to be encouraging people to start messing about with water and electric currents... :shock:


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## GTsteve (May 10, 2009)

You have both dismissed this without thinking it through. If an electrician or electrical engineer could set the system up in a way that could be safely used by us/the consumer why couldn't this work? Again, if this is how we "humanely" kill our own food in what I assume must be a safe & controlled manor which OHS requirements etc would dictate, is there not some reasonable application of the same technology to this problem many herp keepers face?


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## GTsteve (May 10, 2009)

Goodoo said:


> The electrocution method sounds dangerous and unreliable.


 
If it is regularly used for massed produced poultry how dangerous & unreliable can it be? I don't own a reptile yet and I see this being one of the harder tasks associated with keeping them in larger numbers. If there is a clean, efficient way to do it I am all for it. Till this idea came up I liked the sound of the CO2 chamber.


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## theduclos (May 10, 2009)

lol, yes you could electrocute your mice but i think that idea has so many inherent flaws that it isnt worth trying. and any 'experiments' trying to work out a safe way would more then likely brand you as an inhumane person.

im not saying to try these but 1 'safe' (as i will only give you a nice little shock but not actually kill you, eg ive played drinking games with mine) way of testing out if you could kill a mice would be to use a megger (ir tester) on the 1000v scale. I doubt these have the current capacity to deliver the blow to the heart but 1000V through the mouse if effective would prove a very quick and efficient kill. if i owned snakes id give the megger a shot on oa mouse. just to see if its an effective way of killing them.


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## GTsteve (May 10, 2009)

Sounds promising Michael.


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## GTsteve (May 10, 2009)

[video=youtube;ZWojN2hNuiA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWojN2hNuiA&feature=related[/video]


If it can do that to a bloke...


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## abbott75 (May 10, 2009)

There are electronic mouse traps on the market. But I think I'll stick to breaking necks for now.


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## theduclos (May 10, 2009)

to the uninitiated an ir tester or (megger) is an insulation resistance tester. sparkies use it to test out the insulation of the cables in an electrical installation. how it works is by forcing a large voltage (3 scales, 250v, 500v and 1000v) down a cable to test for any insulation breakdown. if there is a dead short for example it is found using this test. they are a great little tool to have. 1000v gives you a great shock and i reckon it would be just the ticket to knocking off mice quickly. especially you rigged up a little holder that held the 2 prongs so you could simply press it on a mouse to give it a quick whack.

this is only me thinking out loud. i dont keep snakes so i have never had to think of ways to knock off a mouse.


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## theduclos (May 10, 2009)

lol, just the same as that video. we played a drinking game one night. each time you lost you had to cop a blow of the megger. it started out at 250 and in the end it went to 1000v. that guy lying on the floor is a bit of overkill. yes it gives you a huge whack but its not lying down material.


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## Beardieboy (May 11, 2009)

I did an assignment on chicken slaughter at uni last month, and the electrocution method is only used for stunning - it will not kill all chickens outright, some will die due to heart attacks from the current but others can regain some degree of consciousness after a few minutes (wouldn't be able to live but will have some pain perception and so will suffer). So all chickens electrocuted are then killed by having their throats cut so they bleed out, as soon as possible after their time in the bath. 

So I suppose in theory, you could use electrocution to stun your rodents, and then some other method to make sure 100% of them die. Otherwise you would probably end up with rats and mice waking up in the freezer or something which would be a welfare concern, the odds would be there if you're doing it regularly. Plus the systems used for chicken slaughter are automated with the chickens hung by the legs on a conveyor, so no human goes anywhere near the electrified water. Which would be difficult to achieve for mice and rats - unless you can get some sort of tiny conveyor system which is insulated to avoid shocking yourself and will restrain the rodents...

My opinion - possibly a good idea in theory but wouldn't be safe or humane in practice. It would be hard to design a system that's completely safe for the user. Plus unless we're getting into the practice of stunning then killing the little guys there would likely be some humane issues...


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## Beardieboy (May 11, 2009)

Note - I am referring only to an electrified bath. I don't know about the insulation testers - no idea so no opinion! Also, I am only talking theoretically, as I only have one snake (Stimmy ) and don't cull my own rodents. Cheers.


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## GTsteve (May 11, 2009)

Thanks Beardieboy, that's good info. Awesome first post to I see, welcome.


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## theduclos (May 11, 2009)

yeah good post mate. now im not 100% on this but i think most meat places use the throat slitting as the final blow to meet halal requirements (im not 100% sure if chicken needs the same prayer/blessing as beef/lamb) 
also its obviously done to bleed them out.

if anyone here is a sparky and owns a megger id suggest you give it a go. the worst that could happen is one mouse suffers a bad death. if its succesfull then it means many more mice may get quicker and cleaner deaths. i have an industry rdo tommorow. happy to bring the megger around to anyone local to dandenong if they want to have a shot.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 11, 2009)

How many mice is in a heap?
Id go with throwing them on the concrete. It,s easy to use the gas because you cant see the struggle ...unless you use a see through chamber.
Having a see through chamber is good for a few reasons.One is you can observe and control ratios of gas to try to provide the quickest kill (still a hundred times slower than the concrete floor).
.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jack*
> 
> 
> ...


What these guys said..
Cheers


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## Beardieboy (May 11, 2009)

Cheers guys. I try not to post unless I actually have something worthwhile to contribute! 

The halal thing's a bit different btw, it varies by species but chickens for halal/kosher are generally just throat cut to bleed out without stunning (and yes the prayer is needed) - if they're stunned they don't get certified. So electric stunning and then bleeding out is probably used for all the chicken at your local supermarket! Most animal species for human consumption are killed by bleeding out in Australia, with stunning except for kosher/halal which is generally without stunning. But that's off topic so I won't go into it!


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## theduclos (May 11, 2009)

not that its particularly related to the topic on hand but i know a few blokes who work in the meat industry, one of em is in an abby. he said that the blokes who are there dont do the prayer for every kill, instead they do the first couple of the day and then the basically just stay there and observe/administer the kills. whilst its solely for religious reasons i have no problems with them not doing the prayers when a single line at an abby may kill 300+ lamb an hour.


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## Crystal..Discus (May 11, 2009)

I've watched my Dad - he prefers gassing and throwing them on the ground (Pinkies). I couldn't do it - I don't like the sound they make when they connect with the floor (the crunch makes me a little sick). But really, when you think about it, the pinkies/fuzzies/rats won't care - they're dead.


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## KaaTom (May 11, 2009)

theduclos said:


> not that its particularly related to the topic on hand but i know a few blokes who work in the meat industry, one of em is in an abby. he said that the blokes who are there dont do the prayer for every kill, instead they do the first couple of the day and then the basically just stay there and observe/administer the kills. whilst its solely for religious reasons i have no problems with them not doing the prayers when a single line at an abby may kill 300+ lamb an hour.


 
I had no idea that they did a prayer for the animals at the abby's... i guess it depends on the preferred method of the person culing as to what is best. I personally couldnt throw a mouse/rat on the floor or knock them unless there is some visual problem with them.

Thanks to all those who have responded and the many answer given to culling pinkies, Im still not 100% sure which way Im going to go bt Im leaning towards CO2

Cheers guys


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## Bax155 (May 12, 2009)

VixenBabe said:


> Lots of people care including me, they may be destined for snake food but that doesnt mean they arent entitled be treated like the living feeling animal they are. If anything it makes them MORE entitled as without them we wouldnt be able to KEEP any snakes as easily as we do.


 


abbott75 said:


> Comments like that are what turn the general public against reptile keepers.


 


Lewy said:


> You no Its people like you who shouldn't have the right to own reptiles as you are oviestly just a pore cruel little boy


:lol::lol: People jumping in as usual before reading the post properly!!! :lol::lol:
Im saying WHO cares what way its done  We breed these for food, not to worry about which way they prefer to be killed!! If someone wants to gas em well so be it, if some one likes to clonk em so be it!! My whole point was who cares "AS LONG AS THE JOB GETS DONE" meaning as long as they are killed as quikly as possible the way YOU pefer to do it :lol::lol: 
And Lewy Im I cruel little boy hey, check my age my balls dropped years ago :lol::lol: Cruel maybe, but certainly never to herps!!
This is just another great example of people just wanting to have a go at someone and make themselves out to be the greater keeper :lol::lol:
Thanks APS for yet another fantastic laugh!!


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## Vixen (May 12, 2009)

Well maybe you should be a little clearer in your communication to get the message across, if you had of said that in the first place it would have been better. The way you worded it sounded like you were one of the people who would just throw them in the freezer to die and laugh about it, or some other cruel way.


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## Bax155 (May 12, 2009)

VixenBabe said:


> Well maybe you should be a little clearer in your communication to get the message across, if you had of said that in the first place it would have been better. The way you worded it sounded like you were one of the people who would just throw them in the freezer to die and laugh about it, or some other cruel way.


Nah Vix just a lazy post as Im sick of this debate, personally Im a gasser!! CO2 that is :lol::lol:


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## Lewy (May 12, 2009)

Bax155 said:


> Nah Vix just a lazy post as Im sick of this debate, personally Im a gasser!! CO2 that is :lol::lol:


 

Well if you would have said that in the first place I would of not said what I said so I'll take back my comment about you

Cheers Lewy


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## Bax155 (May 12, 2009)

Lewy said:


> Well if you would have said that in the first place I would of not said what I said so I'll take back my comment about you
> 
> Cheers Lewy


Yeah i try to post in the least amount of words as possible as i hate typing!!
Cheers
Baxter


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## No-two (May 12, 2009)

If I've only got a very small number of mice to cull I'll break necks by using "the pen method" but I generally don't like messing about with rodents and only cullwhen theres sufficent need for the gas chamber, in which case I generally allways gas, gas is much easier as I can have a tub of rodents in the gas chamber and continue on with what I was doing in the rodent shed.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (May 12, 2009)

I can see this may get a little argumentitive, but heres my opinion.....

I think you *should *try to kill them humanely, I mean, they are living, breathing creatures, shouldn't they be able to die quickly and painlessly? I would prefer to break the law and do something illegal if it meant the creature died as painlessly as possible. 

Sorry, the only methods I've really heard of is gassing them, but yeah, another method I did hear of from a woman who bred her own food was she put them in water, then put the water in the freezer, she said it made them unconsciouss, then they just died in their sleep. then she would put them into bags and leave them sitting on the counter to defrost, then she would put them back into a bag and shove it into the freezer. Just what I heard though.


Cheers, 
Jordo.


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## Vixen (May 12, 2009)

rainbow__serpent said:


> another method I did hear of from a woman who bred her own food was she put them in water, then put the water in the freezer, she said it made them unconsciouss, then they just died in their sleep. then she would put them into bags and leave them sitting on the counter to defrost, then she would put them back into a bag and shove it into the freezer. Just what I heard though.


 
:shock::shock: That does NOT work on warm blooded creatures. I have heard its a good way for fish but im not even sure on that, ive never researched it.

Do that to rats and mice, and they will be swimming around for HOURS trying to escape, then will be too exhausted to keep their heads above water and will drown. They will not just fall unconcious, thats a terribly cruel thing to do.


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## ShaunMorelia (May 12, 2009)

Just feed live...let the snake to the job for you

<Puts Flame Suit on>


Hahaha, I dont really feed live I buy frozen and defrost in water.


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