# NBN roll out



## thomasssss (Apr 16, 2013)

so as plenty of us would know there is a bit of talk going on about whether or not the NBN roll out should continue 

as i work on the upgrade it affects me a fair bit and has been the topic of discussion lately (every one wants to know if the cable they are putting in there house will ever be used  

so i figured i might see what people on here think about the upgrade 

should it go ahead or should we switch to this other cheaper method instead 

interested to see peoples views on this so please all input is welcome (by me anyway  ill save my thoughts on this for a little later 

cheers thomas


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## andynic07 (Apr 16, 2013)

You should never build a road that only just copes with the traffic at that point, you always build it for future traffic flow so why should the NBN be any different.


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## Virides (Apr 16, 2013)

Australia is effectively in the dark ages tech wise compared to other countries despite Australia being in a better economical position than others. We also pay for downloads rather than connect speed. In the US you pay for being connected at a certain speed, like ADSL, ADSL2, ADSL2+, etc. Here you pay for 20gb, 50gb, etc.

The NBN is essential infrastructure that may not suit everyone's needs now, but in 10 or 20yrs, will be essential for growth even in remote areas.


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## thomasssss (Apr 16, 2013)

i may not need to put my thoughts in


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## thesilverbeast (Apr 16, 2013)

Virides said:


> The NBN is essential infrastructure that may not suit everyone's needs now, but in 10 or 20yrs, will be essential for growth even in remote areas.




It's actually getting to the standard of the rest of the developed world. When its finished, we'll already be behind everyone again.

Also I think its vital in remote areas now! I'm stuck with really slow internet when I only live one street past "suburban" boundaries for Melbourne. I'd hate to see how bad it is for some others further out!


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## treeofgreen (Apr 16, 2013)

God i want NBN so bad.... 

I say roll it out. We need it to even start keeping up with the rest of the developed world like thesilverbeast said.

4g would be pretty promising if it was all over the country aswell... since we are throwing around tens of billions for the cable roll out, whats a few more on an epic 4g network?


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 16, 2013)

What NBN? Isn't that just reserved for those living east of the Western Australian border? There is nothing national about it. It's poorly designed, it is not going to deliver on it's promises and our grand children will still be paying for it. 

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## thomasssss (Apr 16, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> What NBN? Isn't that just reserved for those living east of the Western Australian border? There is nothing national about it. It's poorly designed, it is not going to deliver on it's promises and our grand children will still be paying for it.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Wing_Nut


what do you mean its reserved for those east of WA ? ill admit that i dont really know whats going on that side but a quick google and using the nbn roll out map thingy it appears that WA have services and are underway ? be it that they may not be turned on yet 

please elaborate , how is it poorly designed ? what promises will it not deliver on ?


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 16, 2013)

The NBN is being rolled out last in WA. It is not going to offer affordable high speed broadband that it originally claimed. It will be over 60% more expensive than adsl2 prices initially. A lot of WA iS only going to be covered by wireless with substantially slower speeds. Yes they have started construction in some areas but it's unlikely to be operational fully until 2019. 1/4 of the NBN is funded by WA GST revenue and we will be the last to see the benifit. 

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 16, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The NBN is being rolled out last in WA. . A lot of WA iS only going to be covered by wireless with substantially slower speeds. Yes they have started construction in some areas but it's unlikely to be operational fully until 2019.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Wing_Nut


Surely if this is the case you will not be paying the higher prices for a faster internet until you get the faster speeds? Where has this information come from? I have not really looked too much into it yet.


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## andynic07 (Apr 16, 2013)

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/nbn-builder-drops-nt-focus-044447849.html
This article states that a contractor has dropped work from NT to concentrate more on WA and SA.


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## Jackrabbit (Apr 16, 2013)

Wy not just build a more affordable wireless network everybody. Go to be cheaper than laying 000s of kms of cable. We have too few people and too much ground to cover which is why we pay so much more than the rest of the world.

I live in Sydney and don't expect to see it for a couple of years yet, so I doubt WA is missing anything.


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## Renenet (Apr 17, 2013)

I vote for the NBN as it stands.

The problem with wireless is that it chokes up when you get high traffic. I know - I am using a 3G/4G wireless modem now and it drops out a lot more than is forgivable for the price I pay for it. As a result, it's not a very reliable solution.

There are things to criticise about Labor's NBN, but those same criticisms apply three times over to the Coalition's version. Even the supposed cheaper cost of the latter is doubtful because they intend to retain copper wiring that's already nearing the end of its useful life and will require a lot of maintenance.


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## jack (Apr 17, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> You should never build a road that only just copes with the traffic at that point, you always build it for future traffic flow so why should the NBN be any different.



rubbish, a road is built for current traffic, and then needs upgrading in a few years: this upgrade boosts employment during the roadwork and makes money for the directors of the private company that get the gig and cushy future jobs for the pollies that award the tender to friends who are the directors of said construction companies...


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## andynic07 (Apr 17, 2013)

jack said:


> rubbish, a road is built for current traffic, and then needs upgrading in a few years: this upgrade boosts employment during the roadwork and makes money for the directors of the private company that get the gig and cushy future jobs for the pollies that award the tender to friends who are the directors of said construction companies...


Yes that seems to be actual case most of the time but there was a "should" in there.


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## Fuscus (Apr 17, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> You should never build a road that only just copes with the traffic at that point, you always build it for future traffic flow so why should the NBN be any different.



agreed



thesilverbeast said:


> It's actually getting to the standard of the rest of the developed world. When its finished, we'll already be behind everyone again.


Completely and 100% incorrect. Fibre optic to the premises is absolute fastest possible until we develop FTL technologies. Unless you are talking about the oppositions version, in which case it is like building a Sydney harbour bridge which can only carry one horse at a time.




thesilverbeast said:


> Also I think its vital in remote areas now! I'm stuck with really slow internet when I only live one street past "suburban" boundaries for Melbourne. I'd hate to see how bad it is for some others further out!


Then you have four choices
1/ Wait for the NBN.
2/ Ask Telstra to be nice to its rural customers 
3/ Shift to a better location.
4/ Suffer. Preferably in silence. 




Jackrabbit said:


> Wy not just build a more affordable wireless network everybody...


Whenever the alternative suggestions involve the words wireless or copper, you know the suggestion is either political or completely lacks technical knowleadge


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## Snowman (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't even have ADSL 2


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## Sawowie (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm lucky enough to be living in Armidale and using NBN, and now I'll never be able to go back. the internet speed back at my parents place nearly kills me when I visit


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## thomasssss (Apr 17, 2013)

some good points , most of which id agree with 

RENENET- you have touched on a very good point , one that i didnt think anybody here would think about (unless they to are in the industry or know a bit about it 

the alternative suggested , as you pointed out also involves using the existing lines , this IMO is one of the biggest flaws , as you said alot of the old lines are buggered and need replacing 

now that sounds easy enough doesn't it , replace the line bobs your uncle , THIS IS NOT THE CASE new trenches to houses will still need to be done in alot of cases , why?

A) alot of the old lines run up inside the house and are not very accessible , this is still ok in some houses but some it would be a very time consuming costly process anyway and digging a new trench can be quicker and easier 

B) if you have ever worked in an industry that involves you trying to use these old underground lines you will know that there is a very low success rate in some areas , this is because some areas when the pipes are old the ground may have moved slightly over the years or something else has happened to break the existing lead in (the pipe taking cable to the house ) making it very difficult/impossible to use 

C)they also leak at the joins and become clogged with mud and that causes a similar problem to the above 


to all those out there who are whining about how long it will take , you have no idea , Rome wasn't built in a day , maybe you should take up a job on an underground crew doing the lead ins to peoples houses (which is what i do ) then you can see first hand what we deal with 

im not saying i have the hardest job in the world but there are alot of things hidden beneath the ground that you dont know about until you find it and face the problem , by then the trench is dug and you can only divert coarse the slightest bit as the like the line to be as straight as possible 

yesterday we got about halfway through a lead in , only to find that some fool had gone and buried about 20 railway sleepers stacked up on each other at 700mm deep and about 10m long 
then theres the builders , im begging to form a grudge on builders , , so if theres any builders on the site STOP BURING YOUR CRAP AT THE JOB SITE :evil:

one of the other big things that is slowing the project down IMO only is a lack of communication and organisation throughout both the head honchos and government all the way down to the guys like me

cheers for reading if you made it through that 
thomas


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## Renenet (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Thomas. Very interesting. I can only imagine how ropable you and the crew were when you ran into those sleepers. Maybe you'll find buried treasure one day instead?


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## Ambush (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm all for it.
As for wireless its ok for some things but on a whole. It's rubbish.


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## thomasssss (Apr 17, 2013)

Renenet said:


> Thanks for sharing your perspective, Thomas. Very interesting. I can only imagine how ropable you and the crew were when you ran into those sleepers. Maybe you'll find buried treasure one day instead?


cheers , it was a little annoying but youve gotta do what youve gotta do  we have joked about finding gold , maybe one day


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## RedFox (Apr 17, 2013)

Are there many people on here with firsthand experience using the NBN? The up take seems to be quite low for a service that is meant to be securing Australia’s future and ensuring our competitiveness on the world stage. When our Government decided to go ahead with the NBN they did not run cost-benefit studies. Now the NBN is the biggest single investment of taxpayers’ funds in our history, it is normal for cost-benefit studies too be undertaken for smaller expenditures but for some reason not this policy. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

I worry about how much, when it is all completed (if it is ever completed), we will be paying for this service. Also our current phone lines will be disconnected meaning if you want a home phone you need to be connected to NBN. This leaves two choices sign up and pay up or do without a home phone. This is not a big deal for a lot of people who just use their mobiles anyway. But if more people decide to go mobile doesn’t that make some of the cables going into our homes redundant and a waste of taxpayers’ money? 

While I think it is good that something is being done, I can only see this as being one of those projects that run over time and over budget. It is definetly interesting to see what approaches other countries have taken and what they have budgeted.


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## andynic07 (Apr 17, 2013)

It is being built and run by a GOC. Many would say that a GOC would have high running costs and cause higher prices to the retailer who then pass on the costs to the consumer. I my experience with the electrical industry in Queensland and from what I have heard about places like South Australia while the electricity networks were owned and run by the government electricity prices were a lot lower than what they are now. The government promised that the sell off would introduce competitive retail prices but we have seen nothing but increase after increase and everybody is pointing there finger at everybody else. I see it as a good thing that the government is taking back the telephone and internet network and providing us with an up to date and reliable service.


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## Virides (Apr 18, 2013)

Everyone worries about the cost now, the delays, etc.

Think what it would be like in 20yrs had we not undergone the change over, still on copper, with ADSL speeds capping at around 20Mbit (techincally less with most people beyond the butter zone of high end speed). In 20yrs you will all be complaining "Why wasn't this done years ago?!". Sure it costs alot now, but it is national infrastructure - future infrastructure. It will all make sense in years to come. Like it or not, Australia is amongst the strongest economies in the world and we need infrastructure that supports that into the future.

When the NBN becomes available in my area (mid this year I think), I will personally be staying with my ADSL 2+ service since the cost to speed benefit isn't enticing enough to change. But that's just because the cost of the NBN service available to me is too expensive for now. If the price comes down to half or under of what it is now, I will likely switch. But it is good to know there is a better option available in the future.


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## thomasssss (Apr 18, 2013)

Virides said:


> Everyone worries about the cost now, the delays, etc.
> 
> Think what it would be like in 20yrs had we not undergone the change over, still on copper, with ADSL speeds capping at around 20Mbit (techincally less with most people beyond the butter zone of high end speed). In 20yrs you will all be complaining "Why wasn't this done years ago?!". Sure it costs alot now, but it is national infrastructure - future infrastructure. It will all make sense in years to come. Like it or not, Australia is amongst the strongest economies in the world and we need infrastructure that supports that into the future.
> 
> When the NBN becomes available in my area (mid this year I think), I will personally be staying with my ADSL 2+ service since the cost to speed benefit isn't enticing enough to change. But that's just because the cost of the NBN service available to me is too expensive for now. If the price comes down to half or under of what it is now, I will likely switch. But it is good to know there is a better option available in the future.


to right , do it now why wait for when we desperately need it 
personally i think the talk from Abbott about dropping fibre is nothing but a political ploy to put crap on Gillard , if he does drop it it will be one of the biggest mistakes of his career , time will tell 

sawowie- the company i work for actually started up it armidale , network infrastructure services -NIS the had the contract doing lead ins to houses and bit of other stuff , i have to ask just how good is your connection can it compare to any sort of wireless system ?

also anyone thinking of having it in the future should be smart and get the wires installed when it comes to your town and is still covered and paid for by the government , otherwise when it becomes the only option available you will miss out whether you like it or not and will have to pay for it yourself just because you where a stubborn old fart , think of that people


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## ginji (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The NBN is being rolled out last in WA. It is not going to offer affordable high speed broadband that it originally claimed. It will be over 60% more expensive than adsl2 prices initially. A lot of WA iS only going to be covered by wireless with substantially slower speeds. Yes they have started construction in some areas but it's unlikely to be operational fully until 2019. 1/4 of the NBN is funded by WA GST revenue and we will be the last to see the benifit.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Wing_Nut



Maybe you should change your name to Right_Wing_Nut?

You can find the NBN plans available already, and they cost the same, or less for effectively more because you get the guaranteed speed. http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/isp-9-16/internode-nbn.htm (And have a look at some of the other ISPs)

A lot of WA is empty space, so of course a significant portion is going to be covered by wireless, it's sparsely populated with few exceptions.

As for 1/4 of the funding being from WA GST, what a load of bollocks. The GST collected, is distributed back to the states, all of it.


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

ginji said:


> Maybe you should change your name to Right_Wing_Nut?
> 
> You can find the NBN plans available already, and they cost the same, or less for effectively more because you get the guaranteed speed. http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/isp-9-16/internode-nbn.htm (And have a look at some of the other ISPs)
> 
> ...



I have guarenteed speed currently from my ISP, and not only will the NBN be more expensive (based on written quotations from ISPs as I investigated a move in this direction) is will not be available for at least another 18 months, however there is no guarentee here either. 

The NBN is funded by debt, which is really just a fancy way the government has moved to protect the bottom line of the budget. In reality the money that will be funding the interest payment on the debt incurred will come from GST REVENUE. The NBN is forecast to be self funding by the government however this make many assumptions. Firstly it assumes a deal will be made with Telstra which will move 3-4 million customers onto the network. This deal is still yet to be struck. Secondly it is reliant on a 70% take up of NBN network, which even the government has been forced to admit is unlikely. Any shortfall in these estimations will incur a increased cost to the government which will cause a massive blowout in costs. The funding for the interest repayments on the network until it operational is funded to the tune of 9 billion from the WA economy. Do some research. 

The reality is the rollout of the NBN was motivated politically. WA has once again been forgotten by the federal government much like the new schooling policy and the mining tax. 

Regards

Right_Wing_Nut and proud of it


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Firstly it assumes a deal will be made with Telstra which will move 3-4 million customers onto the network. This deal is still yet to be struck.
> Right_Wing_Nut and proud of it


I thought this deal had been struck?


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Extract from the Telstra site.
On 23 June 2011, Telstra reached agreements with NBN Co and the Australian Government to participate in the roll-out of the NBN. The agreements are dependent on various pre-conditions including approvals from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and a majority of Telstra shareholders.At our October 2011 Annual General Meeting, 99% of Telstra shareholders who voted strongly supported the Board’s recommendation to participate in the roll-out of the NBN. This vote was an important step in the process we commenced more than two years ago. There’s one further step before we can participate in the NBN roll-out – and that’s the ACCC’s approval of our Structural Separation Undertaking and Migration Plan.If the agreements are implemented, NBN Co has agreed to use, and pay for, access to parts of Telstra’s infrastructure as it rolls out the NBN. We’ve agreed to progressively stop providing fixed line services, including phone and broadband services over our copper and HFC cable networks, and migrate services onto the NBN as it’s rolled out. We’ll continue providing Pay TV services on our HFC cable network.Customer relationships and contracts will stay with Telstra and we’re committed to providing our customers with superior value through our market-leading products.Detailed information on the Definitive Agreements can be found on Telstra's Investor Relations website.​


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

The ACCC is still fine tuning the migration plan. 

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The ACCC is still fine tuning the migration plan.
> 
> Wing_Nut


Surely the "deal" as such has been struck and the ACCC will be a formality?


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

Yes, that's why it's been going and back and forth for 10 months. It goes against the fibre of the ACCC to reduce competition in the market which is precisely what this deal will do. 

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Yes, that's why it's been going and back and forth for 10 months. It goes against the fibre of the ACCC to reduce competition in the market which is precisely what this deal will do.
> 
> Wing_Nut


How will it reduce competition?


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

Telstra is going to lease it's infrastructure to NBN Co, however will automatically be awarded lease of the NBN network at a subsidised rate compared to other retailers. This is regardless of actual retail figures. It will simply create another vertical monopoly that existed decades ago. 

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Can you confirm the rates that Telstra and other retailers will be charged? I think that there was a monopoly while Telstra owned the entire network and it isn't much better that optus has limited network around the place. That is why the ACCC is the watchdog to regulate this. Energex was forced to sell off their retail side of the company because the ACCC saw it as unfair that they sell power to themselves and other retailers and now Energex does not buy or sell power at all and only rents their lines out to whoever wants to use them. This is probably a very similar model that they are using for the NBN.


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

The whole premise the NBN was based on that it will wholesale to all retailers equally. This is what the ACCC is trying to ensure happens, but with NBN Co paying Telstra 11 billion dollars, they are concerned that a little corporate favouritism might take place. And that's never happened before has it? 

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The whole premise the NBN was based on that it will wholesale to all retailers equally. This is what the ACCC is trying to ensure happens, but with NBN Co paying Telstra 11 billion dollars, they are concerned that a little corporate favouritism might take place. And that's never happened before has it?
> 
> Wing_Nut


I think that this is too big an issue in the publics crosshairs for the government to let that happen. The only way this may happen is if the Liberals get in. LOL Just kidding don't want to turn this into a political discussion.


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

The whole preface is political, which is the biggest failing of the current plan. It the NBN had been independently costed and scrutinised and a independent body put in place to oversee the rollout and construction, with transparency, then we wouldn't need this discussion. My issue is that the NBN budget will blow out, it won't deliver services fairly over the entire nation, and the cost to the consumer is very uncertain in the long term. Initially the NBN was going to be privatised upon it's completion however this is no longer the case, effectively lumping the government with an asset that may or may not be profitable. The NBN Co his already over budget and behind schedule. If the NBN delivers all it's promises I will be surprised and eat humble pie.

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The whole preface is political, which is the biggest failing of the current plan. It the NBN had been independently costed and scrutinised and a independent body put in place to oversee the rollout and construction, with transparency, then we wouldn't need this discussion. My issue is that the NBN budget will blow out, it won't deliver services fairly over the entire nation, and the cost to the consumer is very uncertain in the long term. Initially the NBN was going to be privatised upon it's completion however this is no longer the case, effectively lumping the government with an asset that may or may not be profitable. The NBN Co his already over budget and behind schedule. If the NBN delivers all it's promises I will be surprised and eat humble pie.
> 
> Wing_Nut


You are probably right saying that the budget has blown out and not everyone will get equal service but I feel it is a service that the country needs and the best way to guarantee this is to have it owned and run by the government to start with. If you look at all services that we use at the moment there is staggered levels of service dependant on a range of factors. For example in my shire (Logan City) people with a reduced service level (trickle feed) of water supply pay a higher line rental due to the fact that they live in a rural area and therefore the cost of the extra meters of pipe is passed onto them whereas the urban areas get full supply of water and pay less. Another example is the service level that rural electricity customers get is a lot lower and rural KPI power restoration times are slower to these customers for the simple fact that there are a lot less customers per km of line and therefore less revenue.


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## T0ken (Apr 18, 2013)

I want it now and would even pay for the lead in.
I pay about $250 a month for phone, internet and foxtel. The NBN would save me a fair bit each month. Foxtel would be dumped and no more line rental.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

The reason the government has to build the NBN is because it is simply not profitable enough to encourage private investment. I don't suggest that we dont need a network to be built to replace our aging infrastructure, however the current system is intrinsically flawed. 

Wing_Nut


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## andynic07 (Apr 18, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The reason the government has to build the NBN is because it is simply not profitable enough to encourage private investment. I don't suggest that we dont need a network to be built to replace our aging infrastructure, however the current system is intrinsically flawed.
> 
> Wing_Nut


So you agree that the network needs to happen but just not funded by the government?


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 18, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> So you agree that the network needs to happen but just not funded by the government?



There is little doubt that to solidify Australia's economic position Australia had to make serious communication investment and advances. I certainly agree that Australia is lagging behind the world in terms of technical investment and a overhaul of our communication network is needed. If the NBN delivers on all it's promises, it will be a great outcome for Australia. IF. 

Wing_Nut


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## thomasssss (Apr 19, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> The NBN Co his already over budget and behind schedule.
> 
> Wing_Nut


sick and tired of hearing this behind schedule crap (the crew i run is actually ahead of schedule by a month but thats cos i run a tight ship  and where organising to do jobs that arnt booked in for weeks just so we have work)

to the people who say its taking to long , you guys have no idea like i said Rome was not built in a day , to be honest i couldnt tell you when it will be finished as a job that should only take 2-3 hours can suddenly turn into a day and a half job , and with the way things are set up that only has to happen 3 or 4 times and your behind by a month 

there are so many hidden problems that the NBN and the government dont know about and they are the ones who have made this (imo) tight schedule , 

they have said coffs harbour should be finished in 12 to 18 months ....... there dreaming , the only way this will happen is if they employ double the people , so there goes the budget again


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 19, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> sick and tired of hearing this behind schedule crap (the crew i run is actually ahead of schedule by a month but thats cos i run a tight ship  and where organising to do jobs that arnt booked in for weeks just so we have work)
> 
> to the people who say its taking to long , you guys have no idea like i said Rome was not built in a day , to be honest i couldnt tell you when it will be finished as a job that should only take 2-3 hours can suddenly turn into a day and a half job , and with the way things are set up that only has to happen 3 or 4 times and your behind by a month
> 
> ...



Totally agree. Its certainly not the workers who are causing the NBN to run behind schedule, or over budget. The NBN has not been planned properly, and you are right in saying they are not going to meet the deadlines they have proposed. If they had liaised with industry professionals like yourself thomasssss, then there would be no need to hear about things being behind schedule and over budget. 

Wing_Nut


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## champagne (Apr 19, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Totally agree. Its certainly not the workers who are causing the NBN to run behind schedule, or over budget. The NBN has not been planned properly, and you are right in saying they are not going to meet the deadlines they have proposed. If they had liaised with industry professionals like yourself thomasssss, then there would be no need to hear about things being behind schedule and over budget.
> 
> Wing_Nut



its a government job, double budget and time frame....


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## Wing_Nut (Apr 19, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> its a government job, double budget and time frame....



They obviously need more union involvement. That's bound to speed things up! 

Wing_Nut


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## champagne (Apr 19, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> They obviously need more union involvement. That's bound to speed things up!
> 
> Wing_Nut



defiantly and keep it on budget


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## thomasssss (Apr 19, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Totally agree. Its certainly not the workers who are causing the NBN to run behind schedule, or over budget. The NBN has not been planned properly, and you are right in saying they are not going to meet the deadlines they have proposed. If they had liaised with industry professionals like yourself thomasssss, then there would be no need to hear about things being behind schedule and over budget.
> 
> Wing_Nut


yes , but the workers can only work so quick and hard AND still stay safe ( as im sure we all know how pedantic oh&s are now) 

as i said earlier in the thread , the project needs more communication and organisation , and yes as you said they need to communicate with those in the field like me , my supervisor and his etc 

another thing is getting people who are qualified to do the work , i started out as a general labourer with nothing but my oh&s coarse , within months they had me running my own little crew of 4 guys because the owner had to expand but had no one who could run more crews so the people out of the existing crew where split to run their own 

im only 20 , i kinda feel like ive had to much responsibility dumped on me at times , some people dont want to deal with me (mainly oldies , no offence to the over 40's out there  ) and instantly ask if theres someone older they can talk to and i can tell that its because im too young 


there are so many simple things that could of/be done to speed the project up purely in my job (the lead ins) things like splitting multi ports ( these things that the house lines connect to ) in half so they only service 6 houses , as a result we could eliminate having to haul so much cable through the underground network , which at times when its blocked can be one of the biggest things that slows us down when weve got to haul 120m of cable through 5 pits that are blocked with mud 

Edison didnt make the light bulb in one go though did he , no it took him many many attempts before he got it right , hopefully it doesn't take so long for this project to get underway but you get my drift , theres just some hickups that need sorting and im sure it is being done


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## RedFox (Apr 19, 2013)

My understanding of it is that the delays aren't because of the workers more the unrealistic deadlines that were set. Proper consultations were not undertaken so the deadlines were pretty much a guess. A bit like the surplus that we were meant to have. 

From talking to people who work for testra, the communication between NBN Co and testra is lacking leading to stuff ups and delays. 

Thomassss I do have to correct you on one thing, Edison didn't create the light globe. He did work on creating a long lasting electric globe with a guy called Swan, who he eventually screwed over and took all the credit for himself. This is what he is known for.


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## andynic07 (Apr 19, 2013)

I do not know why so many people are stuck on the notion that the NBN is a failure because it is running behind schedule or will run behind. If it is quoted to take 5 years and it takes 10 years a lot of people comment negatively, what if they said it will take 15 years to roll it all out then only take 10 years to complete is it then a raving success? Who really cares how long it takes , it is an essential part of or country to take us into the future and enables us to compete with the rest of the world. #The important part of the equation is price and you will always get unexpected costs on such large projects and it is the Governments and ACCC's job to make sure this doesn't really blow out or there will have to be subsidies to make the product affordable to the end user.


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## Ships (Apr 20, 2013)

There will be a liberal government come september which will apparently spell the end of the nbn in any case


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## Magpie (Apr 20, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> sick and tired of hearing this behind schedule crap (the crew i run is actually ahead of schedule by a month but thats cos i run a tight ship  and where organising to do jobs that arnt booked in for weeks just so we have work)
> 
> to the people who say its taking to long , you guys have no idea like i said Rome was not built in a day , to be honest i couldnt tell you when it will be finished as a job that should only take 2-3 hours can suddenly turn into a day and a half job , and with the way things are set up that only has to happen 3 or 4 times and your behind by a month
> 
> ...



So if one little city is going to take over 2 years to complete, what's your estimate for the whole country?
For those who think that other countries already have something like this, you are dreaming.
There are a few medium cities with similar infrastructure, all paid for by private companies and often very expensive to access.
I'm not against it, i just think it was /is done very poorly.


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## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

Magpie said:


> So if one little city is going to take over 2 years to complete, what's your estimate for the whole country?
> For those who think that other countries already have something like this, you are dreaming.
> There are a few medium cities with similar infrastructure, all paid for by private companies and often very expensive to access.
> I'm not against it, i just think it was /is done very poorly.


There are multiple work crews working around the country in different places. I would think that the larger cities would be allocated more resources and if you want to google there is a roll out plan and time estimation on the NBN website. Admittedly it may not be very accurate time wise but surely it can be used as a guide. As for it being no where else in the world if this is the case is there a problem with that? Why can Australia be at the leading edge of technology? If there are major cities with similar technology won't it just be a matter of time before the rest of the country follows? I agree that the roll out may not be the best but they have paid a lot of people with a lot more experience than us to come up with the plan and I would imagine there are a lot of factors to take into account and a lot that are unseen to us to consider.


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## Dutchy88 (Apr 20, 2013)

Personally I think this country's got other pressing issues I could be using the money for.


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## Jungletrans (Apr 20, 2013)

Leave the NBN and the Desal plant alone . They may be expensive now but as our population increases they will make sense . Your kids will thank you for it one day :]


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## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

Jungletrans said:


> Leave the NBN and the Desal plant alone . They may be expensive now but as our population increases they will make sense . Your kids will thank you for it one day :]


Dead right, how many people have been complaining about the Government not building more dams 10 years ago when we were in the middle of the drought?


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## champagne (Apr 20, 2013)

Ships said:


> There will be a liberal government come september which will apparently spell the end of the nbn in any case



do some research.....


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## champagne (Apr 20, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> yes , but the workers can only work so quick and hard AND still stay safe ( as im sure we all know how pedantic oh&s are now)
> 
> as i said earlier in the thread , the project needs more communication and organisation , and yes as you said they need to communicate with those in the field like me , my supervisor and his etc
> 
> ...



they get unqualified people in because its cheap to pay labours then trades people.... typical sub contracting, everyone under cutting the next guy then doing the work with unskilled labour.... but then again you're only pulling in cable, not rocket science.


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## thomasssss (Apr 20, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> they get unqualified people in because its cheap to pay labours then trades people.... typical sub contracting, everyone under cutting the next guy then doing the work with unskilled labour.... but then again you're only pulling in cable, not rocket science.


i do relise that goes on , but i believe my boss genuinely couldn't find anyone to do the job 

but yes what i do isn't rocket science , but common sense is required imo , little more to it than pulling cable  

MAGPIE − i couldnt give you an estimate as ive said there are so many hidden problems that absolutely NO ONE knows about until it is found , like my example of the railway sleepers and i only know what problems their are on my side of the job , i can only imagine the problems that people face through out the entire project 

REDFOX - cheers for the correction although i actually had heard that , i just used it as its a good analogy that most people will know of


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## moosenoose (Apr 20, 2013)

Everything will probably be accessible via wifi at massive speeds anyway soon enough. Probably a gigantic waste of money. But them again I'm not knowledgable enough on the topic to give a watertight debate


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## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

VenomOOse said:


> Everything will probably be accessible via wifi at massive speeds anyway soon enough. Probably a gigantic waste of money. But them again I'm not knowledgable enough on the topic to give a watertight debate


Wireless speeds will increase but fibre will always in our lifetime be faster in my opinion.


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## apprenticegnome (Apr 21, 2013)

I remember fibre optics being a big topic in my computer class in 1990 and how it was going to change the future. 23 years later Australia still runs a hell of a lot of outdated copper wire so I would say go for it with the NBN. Build for the future because at the rate our lines are being changed we need to be a close to up to date as we can get when its all done.


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## moosenoose (Apr 22, 2013)

It's playing havoc with my MW3 scores!! :lol:


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