# Cape York Jungles



## Vixen (Oct 29, 2007)

http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/animal.php?saleID=15494

Jungle or Coastal!?

Looks alot like a young cape york coastal to me, not accusing him or anything, just wondering. If it is indeed a jungle I might have to bag myself one. Anyone know the seller?


----------



## salebrosus (Oct 29, 2007)

VixenBabe that is a cracking animal anyway.......
I think i'd bags one too actually.

Simone.


----------



## Renagade (Oct 30, 2007)

go for it. that's hot. i say it looks like a cape york jungle


----------



## Vixen (Oct 30, 2007)

I dont know, im just getting a coastal feeling from looking at it. Plus now hes only saying there 10 months old, not yearlings, and theyre a metre long. Isnt that way to big for a jungle, doesnt look like theyve been scarfed at all either.


----------



## caustichumor (Oct 30, 2007)

looks cheynei to me.


----------



## wokka (Oct 30, 2007)

I just measured them. The 5 animals range from 500mm to 700mm in length.


----------



## Lozza (Oct 30, 2007)

are they yours wokka? they look pretty hot!


----------



## Jungleland (Oct 30, 2007)

lozza said:


> are they yours wokka? they look pretty hot!


 
I second that lozza Quite pretty.


----------



## flinders (Oct 30, 2007)

That picture is a cape york carpet - jungle, what ever you want to call it, it's the same thing. They have a similar head pattern to jungle's but different colouring .Yearling is a loosely used term for the first year or so.


----------



## wokka (Oct 30, 2007)

Yeah , they certainly act like jungles. i now have blood streaming from my arm. The things you do in the pursuit of truth.


----------



## wil (Oct 30, 2007)

will you sell me one for $500 coz theyre unsexed?


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Oct 30, 2007)

VB

the sellers description looks correct to me,

instant experts are every where these days and getting younger and younger,


----------



## wokka (Oct 30, 2007)

Last year i sold my Palmerstonsto mat at Animal Attractions. They ended up posted on APS by "S.D." as Cape tribulation B&W. I am damm sure they weren't. I dont know if they were Jungles or Carpets."Flinders" has got the right idea with the discription Jungle-Carpets.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

arrrrrrrrr i want a male to go with this girl, i have 2 the same as this one, i bought them as cape york jungles, 

wokka, are the parents close to this colour, and chance of a pic of the parents..........


----------



## wokka (Oct 30, 2007)

Ponybug that looks like my palmerstons. The Cape yorks are nowhere near as yellow.


----------



## mrsshep77 (Oct 30, 2007)

VixenBabe said:


> I dont know, im just getting a coastal feeling from looking at it. Plus now hes only saying there 10 months old, not yearlings, and theyre a metre long. Isnt that way to big for a jungle, doesnt look like theyve been scarfed at all either.


 
It's not really too big for a jungle as my girl who's just turned 1yr old is just on 1m as well so it's a reasonable size!

Hmmmm Steve.... NO MORE snakes!!! You already have enough... :lol:


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

ok, so in your opinion what would i need to pair her with? just a black and yellow jungle? i have a tully x palmerstone male jungle


----------



## caustichumor (Oct 30, 2007)

That's a nice looking python ponybug, I would have a look at the Atherton pythons for a mate for your girl, I have seen some very nice animals with similar colouration to her. (unless you want to add a splash more colour into your clutch.)


----------



## GrumpyTheSnake (Oct 30, 2007)

I don't care what anyone calls them.... I think they're a stunning Python Wokka!!!
I want one!!!


----------



## salebrosus (Oct 30, 2007)

Hey ponybug, that animal is stunning, i have one from Shane Scarff and one from Shane Black's lineand both are crackers.

Simone.


----------



## flinders (Oct 30, 2007)

VixenBabe said:


> I dont know, im just getting a coastal feeling from looking at it. Plus now hes only saying there 10 months old, not yearlings, and theyre a metre long. Isnt that way to big for a jungle, doesnt look like theyve been scarfed at all either.




Sorry , i forgot to add that cape yorks will get a lot larger than your 4-5 foot fair-dinkum jungles


----------



## Vixen (Oct 30, 2007)

Ok now im even more confused then when I made the thread. Steve I though that capey of yours was a coastal, not a jungle. 

And are those babies jungles or not. But nevermind.. probably all be sucked up by now.


----------



## caustichumor (Oct 30, 2007)

There's no doubt in my mind that they are Morelia Spilota Cheynei.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> That's a nice looking python ponybug, I would have a look at the Atherton pythons for a mate for your girl, I have seen some very nice animals with similar colouration to her. (unless you want to add a splash more colour into your clutch.)



thats very interesting, this is george who i got from mrsshep77, mell always told me he would make a great b/f from my cape york? he is an atherton, i know mell, you told me so.........:lol::lol:


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

johnbowemonie said:


> Hey ponybug, that animal is stunning, i have one from Shane Scarff and one from Shane Black's lineand both are crackers.
> 
> Simone.



hi simone, i've seen pics of some of theirs and they are stunning alright, i'm looking for a male for my 2 girls, 

i have 4 options at the moment, there is george the atherton, 

or jud my tully.........






or agro my tully/palmerston?.......






or this jungle who i'm not sure on location, but not very colourful






sorry for hijacking your thread vixenbabe, but this might help answer your question a bit as all these are different location jungles.........


----------



## Vixen (Oct 30, 2007)

Oh god, I think im gunna ignore the subject now lol. If that is an atherton, it has the same colouration as the capey hatchies. How do you possibly tell whether they are capes or athertons, because athertons dont sell for anywhere near $700 do they, or is it still dependent on their colouration as to what price they fetch.


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Oct 30, 2007)

its very simple, 
not all jungles or cheynei are created equal ,???? each is a individual in looks ??? 
each clutch has variations in patterns and colours 
some are dull, some are bright, colours vary from ivory to bright yellow, 
just as the black can vary from jet black, to dull black markings, 
the nicer the jungle the more you are likely to pay ,


----------



## ihaveherps (Oct 30, 2007)

Capeys are not that difficult to track down, so Ponybug, i dont know why you would even consider crossing them with any other locale. 

IMO, the "Cape York" monkier, covers such a large area, that I am irked by it in some ways. I respect the views of some of the forums more knowledgealbe members, such as the Stock's, Junglefreak, Indicus and co. , who really do have a grasp on local specific knowledge that can only be attained by years of experience in the area, but both the "Cape York" and "Atherton Jungle" names strike me as rather broad, considering the rather diverse python species/sub species that occur within relatively close proximity to each other up north (NB. hows that sentence for poor punctuation!). I can remember a specific post by Indicus, not that i can be bothered tracking it down, that went into some detail about the variation in general Atherton locale pythons, explaining the variations in colour/pattern/size throughout what he considered the Athertons distribution, from variagata like animals, jungle type, and even coastal like animals from different extremes of their ranges. Cape York in my opinion, would be similar due to the large geographical region that the name encompasses. 

Thats just my 2 cents....


----------



## flinders (Oct 30, 2007)

If you were to cross these different local jungles ponybug, what you sell the offspring as ? Your first pic is a cape york. i have'nt yet seen an atherton of that colour.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

ihaveherps, i agree, i was sold both my girls as cape york jungles, they are both from the same line, i was hoping the second one was a male but i sexed it as a f/m, but because i liked her i still bought her, if you go back and read wokka's post he stated that my girl wasn't a cape york but looked like his palmerston, i don't want to breed her with anything else, thats the point, i was asking wokka what his adults were like because I WANTED TO BUY A MALE CAPE YORK JUNGLE to pair with my 2 girls, then caustichumor stated that she looked like an atherton, i have been asking around to buy a male as close to what my girl looked like as possible, it was only the 2 replys to my pics that made me ask the questions about what to breed her with, 

thanks flinders, i just want to know what she is before i breed her, thats the point, i want to buy the same type of male as she is, 

but just a question for you both (ihaveherps and flinders), would breeding her with a palmerston or atherton jungle male be any different then breeding an atherton to a tully jungle? all a want is a straight answer, 

PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A HYBRID DEBATE, 

i'm asking because i DON'T want to breed her to something that will be classed as a hybrid.............


----------



## flinders (Oct 30, 2007)

I definately would'nt breed an atherton to a tully or palmerston.Some may breed palmerston x tully but i still don't think it's right.I believe in local specific breeding.It's already started where people don't really know what they are getting half the time due to cross breeding.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

flinders said:


> I definately would'nt breed an atherton to a tully or palmerston.Some may breed palmerston x tully but i still don't think it's right.I believe in local specific breeding.It's already started where people don't really know what they are getting half the time due to cross breeding.



thanks for your quick and honest reply, and please don't get me wrong, i want to buy a cape york male, i have been talking to a couple others and we are looking around to see if we can find what i'm after, i was just confused as 2 different members told me she wasn't a cape york jungle, the reason i even posted anything as i liked the ones advertised but wanted to see the parents, 

but if i bred her with a different location jungle would that make them hybrids? or just mixed location jungles? 

thanks in advance for any help you can give me.......


----------



## rockman (Oct 30, 2007)

VixenBabe said:


> I dont know, im just getting a coastal feeling from looking at it. Plus now hes only saying there 10 months old, not yearlings, and theyre a metre long. Isnt that way to big for a jungle, doesnt look like theyve been scarfed at all either.



You sound like you have gained ALOT of experience in your years of keeping herps, all that from a photo . AWESOME ! . 
Maybe i should come to you for advice . LOL 
Cheers


----------



## flinders (Oct 30, 2007)

IMO fair dinkum jungles are 4-5 foot long.Athertons will grow in excess of 7 foot and so will cape yorks.The best thing you can do is keep your eyes peeled for a male capey.There was an adult male on RDU some time ago.I would have to say breeding different locals would make them hybrids.As i said it's something i don't believe in but not only that you could'nt fetch top dollar for them if and when selling and we have a new generation of herpers coming through to set an example for so things don't go out of control.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

flinders said:


> IMO fair dinkum jungles are 4-5 foot long.Athertons will grow in excess of 7 foot and so will cape yorks.The best thing you can do is keep your eyes peeled for a male capey.There was an adult male on RDU some time ago.I would have to say breeding different locals would make them hybrids.As i said it's something i don't believe in but not only that you could'nt fetch top dollar for them if and when selling and we have a new generation of herpers coming through to set an example for so things don't go out of control.



thanks flinders, my search will continue, i guess i'll find one soon, i'm chasing a male thats over 2 years old if possible, so if anybody has one, :lol:

and thank you for giving me a straight answer, i seem to find it hard somedays to get straight answers,


----------



## method (Oct 30, 2007)

rockman said:


> You sound like you have gained ALOT of experience in your years of keeping herps, all that from a photo . AWESOME ! .
> Maybe i should come to you for advice . LOL
> Cheers



She was just giving her opinion..and if you don't remember she was asking a question as the op . Why is it so hard to think that, i woulda wondered the same thing as it sounds pretty logical. No need to be all arrogant..


----------



## wil (Oct 30, 2007)

method said:


> She was just giving her opinion..and if you don't remember she was asking a question as the op . Why is it so hard to think that, i woulda wondered the same thing as it sounds pretty logical. No need to be all arrogant..


are you here boyfriend or something?
very nice wokka
this is nearly as bad as the intergrade subject!
wil


----------



## dee4 (Oct 30, 2007)

Bit of a touchy subject isn't it?

Just to rub it in Ponybug, this is our my male. Would make a great mate for your FM but he is all spoken for....

Cheers Rob


----------



## method (Oct 30, 2007)

wil said:


> are you here boyfriend or something?
> very nice wokka
> this is nearly as bad as the intergrade subject!
> wil



lol isn't it obvious


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

thanks for the pic rob, thats what i'm looking for, anybody else????????????

yes it is a bit of a touchy subject, 

i just know if i had $700.00 spare and wokka had a male i'd be getting one of his, 

i'd love to see some more cape york jungle pics, be better then worrying about who said what.............


----------



## wokka (Oct 30, 2007)

dee4 I noticed the caption on your cape york photo omits wether it is a jungle or a carpet or a jungle-carpet. what is it and why??


----------



## dee4 (Oct 30, 2007)

I bought them as Cape Yorks from a bloke in QLD, in Vic we don't have cheynei so technically they are carpets down here. I am currently tracking down the breeder to be 100% sure and have spoken with a few others including Indicus on the matter. IMO they are cheynei.


----------



## dee4 (Oct 30, 2007)

Feel free to give me your opinion


----------



## Jozz (Oct 30, 2007)

There are some similar ones to yours, I think, at pails for scales. Here are a couple of old photos of one I got from Jungleland  He's a stripey one, and has had 2 sheds since then - he's getting yellower each time. He's an angel too


----------



## viridis (Oct 30, 2007)

Excuse the extremely terrible photo, 

This animal is a smoking hot specimen of what I call a TRUE, cape york JUNGLE.

There are way to many colour forms and colour variations found in wild occuring races, to be able to say comments like '' thats to yellow to be a cape york''

You can find an immense array of colours from typical SE QLD looking coastals, to brilliant Black and White specimens. All of these colour forms are found with in the massive thousands of square km that is Cape York.

It is such a vast area, it would be like calling a Gosford Diamond a NSW diamond. Technically its right but realisticly most people are way, way off when it comes to having the slightest clue about locales

Too many know it alls, that have not spent any time in the field:lol:

Cheers ,

Nick


----------



## caustichumor (Oct 30, 2007)

viridis isn't that a north western python. Morelia Spilota Variageta? Darwin carpet.


----------



## viridis (Oct 30, 2007)

No, It is a stand out animal from west of Cooktown. 

I was posting her as an example to show people that have not spent much time on the Cape, the huge variation found in the Morelia from Cape York.

Cheers,

Nick


----------



## SnakePower (Oct 30, 2007)

I am with you Nick, she's definitely a stand out example of a Cape Jungle!! 

There just has to be sooo much confusion here...!! :shock:

I love how the people telling others whats what are the people with the least experience and the ones that really know are mainly just sitting back and enjoying all the rambling.

As Jungle_Freak and Nick have said there is a lot of colour variation within every locality as well as in every clutch. Colour alone is not enough to catagorise an animal to a particular locality.

Further to that, mixing locality breeding within a sub species, IS NOT cross breeding. It is simply mixing two different locality animals of the same species, usually to get a desired result. Nearly every major breeder in Australia has bred mixed locality jungles. This doesn't mean they don't have pure local specific lines as well!! Sometimes a Palmerston goes well with an Atherton, or a Tully with a Milla Milla etc.

Steve, your girl looks like a Cape York Jungle to me! If you chose to breed her to another locality jungle, then that is your choice and doesn't mean you are going to make hybrids. If you bred her to a Darwin, or a MD, or Diamond then sure that's hybrids. If you want to stay local specific with your girls, hang in there and I am sure you will find a male that is suitable when the time is right. 

Also the animals on RDU look like Cape York jungles to me. In fact I sold a few last season that were very similar.

Here's a couple of different Capey's for you.... same clutch, pure Cape Jungles.
















Cheers,
Zac.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

thanks zac, thats what i thought, she is a jungle, the same as breeding a prossy coastal to a brissy coastal, they are still a coastal, 
i'd prefer to get a nice cape york male, i'm just sorry i didn't take you up on your offer last year, but i didn't have these 2 f/ms then, and i'm also careful who i get a male from, 

very nice capeys, keep me in mind if you get any nice males this season............


----------



## SnakePower (Oct 30, 2007)

Welcome Steve, yes mate, exactly the same as breeding a prossie to a brissy, both coastals, different localities.

Second pic is a male, but he's not going anywhere at the moment. 

I should have some very nice ones again this season, I may even part with a male from last year, but I am waiting to see what comes out of the eggs this season first.


----------



## steve6610 (Oct 30, 2007)

:lol: i think he would go nice with my girls, :lol: thanks mate, just let me know how you go, i'd buy a yearling or hatchy from you anyday,


----------



## DanN (Oct 30, 2007)

The coastal/jungle debate is obscured by the fact that the different forms are the same species. 
We do however, usually associate jungles with the rainforest's of north Qld (to Cooktown in the north). Therefore, anything that is not found in rainforest is not a " " "jungle" " ".

I believe there is no such thing as a Cape York Jungle as carpet pythons are not found in "rainforests" north of Cooktown. To conclude, (in my opinion) all carpets found on CYP are coastals - if we are to give them a coastal/jungle/murray darling locality type.

Viridis - do you have an exact locality for that animal?


----------



## wokka (Oct 31, 2007)

We've heard lots of opinion.is that all the difference is between jungles and coastals. If not what is the difference? Maybe Scale count or patterning??Can one of the wise old men unlock the secret?


----------



## Colin (Oct 31, 2007)

flinders said:


> IMO fair dinkum jungles are 4-5 foot long.Athertons will grow in excess of 7 foot and so will cape yorks..


So are you saying that larger atherton jungles are not 'fair dinkum' jungles?  I have a few atherton lines from different locales of the atherton tablelands. The larger ones (7 ft) come from the top of the atherton escarpment and the smaller ones (5 ft) from the side of the atherton escarpment in the ravines and rainforests. Both are 'athertons' and fair dinkum jungles. 



flinders said:


> There was an adult male on RDU some time ago


 If thats the one I'm thinking of, it was owned by Rex Stock and was damn fine animal too. 


flinders said:


> I would have to say breeding different locals would make them hybrids.



Absolutely disagree with the above statement and totally agree with SnakePower below  


SnakePower said:


> I Further to that, mixing locality breeding within a sub species, IS NOT cross breeding. It is simply mixing two different locality animals of the same species, usually to get a desired result. Nearly every major breeder in Australia has bred mixed locality jungles. This doesn't mean they don't have pure local specific lines as well!! Sometimes a Palmerston goes well with an Atherton, or a Tully with a Milla Milla etc..





Jungle_Freak said:


> instant experts are every where these days and getting younger and younger,


Roger that's hilarious and so true :lol:


----------



## Jungleland (Oct 31, 2007)

Some nice examples of capeys on this thread, as been mentioned before capes like any other morelia sub-species can be highly variable. here's one from wenlock river, dead ringer to some tiger carpets from overseas collection
hope you like.

Joel


----------



## caustichumor (Oct 31, 2007)

Wow, those are some outstanding animals snakepower. I would take that colouration over a black and gold version any-day. Beautiful.


----------



## wokka (Oct 31, 2007)

Do you mean a Black and Gold Jungle or a Black and Gold Carpet??


----------



## digdown2001 (Oct 31, 2007)

Colin said:


> Absolutely disagree with the above statement and totally agree with SnakePower below


 
Hi,
Great points  I think there is very little understanding of the perceived boundaries we as researchers,scientists,hobbyists, etc...set for these animals. There is still intense debate that rages to this day on what even defines a "species". In the past the Biological Species Concept was widely accepted, but that too was only after intense debate and nowadays we have DNA sequences to compound issues rather than solve them (well, sometimes anyway ).

Many people hate "hybridising", or crossing of one "species" to another. The same folk will accept the crossing of variants, ssp., colour forms, etc..... The fact remains, a species is only roughly defined as we see it at a given point in time (of course sp. are not static) and at best still a guess to this day. Personally, I'm trying to draw a line right now to breed locality forms as best I can, but it's a choice and who the hell am I to say that breeding one entity that is different in ANY form to another is the right or wrong thing to do. I can read a published species defintition that tells me I have a _Morelia bredli_, but is that animal as different to any other _Morelia_ sp. as the paper suggests, or is it more of what we might believe to be a subspecies (ssp.) of the _M.spilota_ complex as the group is best defined today. Next year a published and peer reviewed paper might suggest a different classification for the animals in question......in 10 years time the whole concept of the group as we once knew it may be totally different.

The best we have are the current "general" understandings of the classification system (not whether or not they are taxonomically considered correct, this is really irrellevant, as I hoped to point out) and it gives us as a group of hobbyists something to work with. Where you draw the line must surely be up to you, but I would always think, beware the wrath of those that still follow and believe in the static defintion of a species, let alone those that are messing with nucleac DNA (hope I said that right, LOL) and radical systematists! A classical taxonomist may only strangle you peacefully 

Until I could understand the group further (and I'm so far from having knowledge on the group it's just not funny), the best I think I can do is stick to locality groups to keep some form of solid genetic variation within the all important captive population, which is I think the aim of most of the breeders here in Australia anyway. In Europe it seems to be a really big problem from what I've seen, and heard it's hard t find a pure lined animal from ANY locality nowadays....some of the lines may look awesome for sure, hence I guess, the argument...

Cheers,
Steve


----------



## dazza74 (Oct 31, 2007)

what ever it is i would love to own one .


----------



## Pythons Rule (Oct 31, 2007)

ok this is my opinion a jungle has the neck pattern that continues down its neck and a coastal has a brocken pattern on its neck, ponybug your girl is a capie jungle you can tell with capies that they are by there bold cream or white patterns. stunning capie all the way. you've seen mine and mine are cape york carpets, with a broken neck pattern. as junglefreak said they all come in different patterns/colours/shades each snake is different. and what they are through there bloodline you can tell through a sertain feature that last bit is IMO.


----------



## Whisper2 (Oct 31, 2007)

they are my favorite of all snakes the cape yorks.
would love to own one and you all seem to have some specky looking animals!
very nice indeed!

: )


----------



## BIG RYANO (Nov 12, 2007)

Whisper2 said:


> they are my favorite of all snakes the cape yorks.
> would love to own one
> 
> : )


Why dont you buy some? There's quite a few getting around now. My favourites are Shane Blacks line, their more b&w than the other lines. I plan on getting some next season.


----------



## BROWNS (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes there seems to be experts everywhere doesn't there.To me a proper Cape York depending on locality can be very similar to Athertons but are a more dry inland carpet not a proper jungle or proper coastal.

In fact sorry to burst anyone's bubbles but there's been a line of Capes being bred for many many years now by many different people and i know the line that many of the animals posted are from which are not true Capes at all they are the result of a true Cape crossed with an Atherton and many people will know this to be the case.Does this make them Hybrids?I don't think so as i believe there needs to be a lot more work done on Athertons and especially Capes to be given a specific name as a sub species etc.To me coastals are found on or close to the coast,hence the name coastals,there's no coast near where many true low end capes i've seen and i'm sure the same goes for further North.They are a very very big animal and have huge boofy type heads and very thick set bodies and very different than your averagee coastal or jungle other than some Athertons depending on locality.I've not seen but have heard of the massive Chillagoe carpets which are big 10 foot thumpers but have seen many many lower end Cape Yorkers and in my books aren't proper jungles which is where i can't getthis calling them Cape York Jungles???Very similar to Athertons but differ again and the variety seems to be endless.Just did a trip up North and saw what many people could easily mistake as a black and white jungle but give it time it will turn into a huge thumping carpet nothing like a black and white but definitely similar to an Atherton which is again an area form jungle but not a true jungle in my books whichlive in the jungle and don't get much bigger than 5 foot sometimes 6 foot depending on locality such as some Mission Beach animals for example.

It's all very confusing especially when fact is many of the so called true capes posted are actually crosses of Athertons and Capes.Also that line used to sell for $350 but has gone up incredibly in price however are lovely looking animals.Some of the nicest i've seen belonged to an old member from here "nigmax" if i recall correctly,i'll try dig up a pic.

Also attached a pic of a lower end Cape from just out of Mareeba,big thickset animal with a nice tri stripe pattern.

If noone believes me regarding the Capes mentioned as being crosses maybe some people should pm the people who really do know and will give you a further explanation,however that's not to say they don't look like true Cape Yorks!

First pic is one of "nigmax's" Capes from the same line as ponybugs and a few others on this thread and a stunning animal.

Next 2 are from similar localities the striped one just out of Mareeba..


----------



## Hetty (Nov 12, 2007)

BROWNS said:


> It's all very confusing especially when fact is many of the so called true capes posted are actually crosses of Athertons and Capes.Also that line used to sell for $350 but has gone up incredibly in price however are lovely looking animals.Some of the nicest i've seen belonged to an old member from here "nigmax" if i recall correctly,i'll try dig up a pic.
> 
> If noone believes me regarding the Capes mentioned as being crosses maybe some people should pm the people who really do know and will give you a further explanation,however that's not to say they don't look like true Cape Yorks!
> 
> First pic is one of "nigmax's" Capes from the same line as ponybugs and a few others on this thread and a stunning animal.



Your post is a little confusing (paragraphing helps ). Are you saying that the snake in the first picture is from a line of Cape Yorks X Athertons?


----------



## bigguy (Nov 12, 2007)

Ponybug, nice Cape York Carpet. The ones for sale also look like Cape York Carpets, just a slightly lighter colour. If you need a male grab one of those, they look really nice


----------

