# Snake Handler Bitten by Death Adder



## Surfcop24 (Jul 30, 2008)

A snake handler was bitten by a Death Adder this afternoon......

As far as I know he is now in Safe hands at the Hospital and is Okay....

Due to my job, all I can mention it was on the Southside of Brisbane, and I cannot mention any details that might pinpoint who the person is (even though I know it name, age address etc.)..... But if they so wish to disclose how it happened etc...Feel Free....

Basically this is put up by myself as a freindly reminder of our Hobby.....

Venemous Snakes Can and Will Bite..... 

Learn First Aid.... And Call for the Ambulance ASAP....

Take Care All...!!!


----------



## WombleHerp (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL this all sounds too familiar!!! xD

(personal joke sorry to those that don't understand)

Nat


----------



## fraser888 (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, I wonder how it happened? Sometimes you may think why are they licenced if they are careless enought to get bitten. Lucky it wasn't something more deadly.


----------



## Vincent (Jul 30, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Lucky it wasn't something more deadly.



???


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL Sdaji all over.


----------



## callith (Jul 30, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Wow, I wonder how it happened? Sometimes you may think why are they licenced if they are careless enought to get bitten. Lucky it wasn't something more deadly.



Yeah cause a Death Adder isn't deadly, theres what 7 snakes that are deadlier in the world?


----------



## Surfcop24 (Jul 30, 2008)

Yeah Cant Say its the best to be bitten by.....

But definately not the worst.... I think the name scares people the most....

Check this site out if you like... Toxicity levels of Aussie Snakes...

http://www.snakerescue.com.au/index.php?link=venom


----------



## urodacus_au (Jul 30, 2008)

If you want to support the hobby, keep incidents like this to yourself. Remember that not everyone who reads this forum is a snake lover......the more people hear of 'deadly snake attacks' the more restrictions end up put on us as keepers.....

Not meant in an agro way, just something to think about.
Jordan


----------



## Surfcop24 (Jul 30, 2008)

Jordan it wasnt a "deadly snake atack" as you state..... 

the handler got correct first aid instructions and called for Medical assistance...... 

All is good......

Venemous Snakes are not Deadly unless you are miles away from Medical Assistance.... Chill!!!


----------



## urodacus_au (Jul 30, 2008)

Surfcop24 said:


> Jordan it wasnt a "deadly snake atack" as you state.....
> 
> the handler got correct first aid instructions and called for Medical assistance......
> 
> ...



Preaching to the converted bud :lol: "Deadly snake attack" was said sarcastically, i thought it was obvious. My point is, spreading the word of snake bites in no way helps the hobby, if anything it makes life more difficult for people like myself when it comes to Elapids. The less people hear about envenomations the better......so Chill!!!

Jordan


----------



## fraser888 (Jul 30, 2008)

> Yeah cause a Death Adder isn't deadly, theres what 7 snakes that are deadlier in the world?


 
I think you need to do a little reaserch. Death Adders, despite their name, are not as deadly as you think. Lets say he got bitten by a Tiapan, or a Tiger Snake. Then his time would be alot more short. If you don't really understand what you are saying, don't say it.......


----------



## fraser888 (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh and I didn't sayit wasnt deadly, I just said that there are alot more deadly snakes out there than a Death Adder.


----------



## Sdaji (Jul 30, 2008)

Man, some people can't come up with an original gimmick! :lol:


----------



## MrSpike (Jul 30, 2008)

Your a trend setter Sdaji...


----------



## DragonKeeper (Jul 30, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Man, some people can't come up with an original gimmick! :lol:



Hahaha!
I saw you on the news.
I want an autograph!!
Recovering well?

That sucks, I'd hate to be him, at-least he has bragging rights.


----------



## BT (Jul 30, 2008)

DragonKeeper said:


> Hahaha!
> I saw you on the news.
> I want an autograph!!
> Recovering well?
> ...


 
What bragging rights,why would you "brag"about being bitten


----------



## DragonKeeper (Jul 30, 2008)

BT said:


> What bragging rights,why would you "brag"about being bitten


Surviving a near death experience, I'm sure people who don't know much about herps would love it.


----------



## BT (Jul 30, 2008)

no it would just give another bad rap to snakes and elapid keeping


----------



## dpeica (Jul 30, 2008)

DragonKeeper said:


> Surviving a near death experience, I'm sure people who don't know much about herps would love it.



But according to the other expert, they aren't that deadly..who should I believe?


----------



## cooper123 (Jul 30, 2008)

like some guys where saying b4 dont say stuff like that it scares ppl away....
b4 they get a pet snake they should know they are not a toy and some are very dangerous


----------



## junglepython2 (Jul 30, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Oh and I didn't sayit wasnt deadly, I just said that there are alot more deadly snakes out there than a Death Adder.


 
If it can still kill you what difference does it make?


----------



## DragonKeeper (Jul 30, 2008)

cooper123 said:


> like some guys where saying b4 dont say stuff like that it scares ppl away....
> b4 they get a pet snake they should know they are not a toy and some are very dangerous



I hate it when people impulsively buy reptiles, I did work experience in a pet shop, and a guy came in, didn't know a thing about snakes, he asked me what they eat, then when I told him he asked "can't they just eat dog food" and 10 minutes later he walked out with a python.


----------



## caustichumor (Jul 30, 2008)

Death Adders are dangerous??? I guess that's why they arn't called snuggle sticks.....


----------



## callith (Jul 30, 2008)

dpeica said:


> But according to the other expert, they aren't that deadly..who should I believe?



lol


----------



## fraser888 (Jul 30, 2008)

> If it can still kill you what difference does it make?


 
It makes a differance because it will not kill you as fast, or do anywhere as much damage as some other snakes such as a Thaipan. For example, if bitten by a Eastern Tiger snake you may get long term, life changing, muscler damage, while the Death Adder may only be deadly over a period of time.

Im not saying that is fine to be bitten by a Death Adder, im just saying it could of been alot worse. Why can't people understand that?


----------



## caustichumor (Jul 30, 2008)

Thaipan's are very dangerous, you don't want to rub up against a thaipan the wrong way...


----------



## alex_c (Jul 30, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Wow, I wonder how it happened? Sometimes you may think why are they licenced if they are careless enought to get bitten. Lucky it wasn't something more deadly.


Anybody can make mistake's all it take's is a split second and yes Adder venom can be very nasty and extremely painful imagine your arm swelling up till the skin almost split's and feeling like it has just been smashed with a sledgehammer among other effects.Most venom's can kill but they all have different propertie's and effect's. So saying its lucky it wasn't something more deadly is foolish and very misinformed,Because a lot of venom's will effect different people differently.


----------



## DragonKeeper (Jul 30, 2008)

caustichumor said:


> Thaipan's are very dangerous, you don't want to rub up against a thaipan the wrong way...



http://www.thaipan.com/

yeah the one in the middle looks like she would kill.


----------



## ttaipan (Jul 30, 2008)

[_quote=urodacus_au;1208580]If you want to support the hobby, keep incidents like this to yourself. Remember that not everyone who reads this forum is a snake lover......the more people hear of 'deadly snake attacks' the more restrictions end up put on us as keepers.....

Not meant in an agro way, just something to think about._ 
Jordan[/quote]

And the day that we aren't allowed to keep elapids is getting closer!!


----------



## Tatelina (Jul 30, 2008)

Surfcop24 said:


> Due to my job, all I can mention it was on the Southside of Brisbane, and I cannot mention any details that might pinpoint who the person is (even though I know it name, age address etc.)..... But if they so wish to disclose how it happened etc...Feel Free....



Do you feel better now that you've told APS and you've been the sharer of news?

If you can't mention details 'due to your job' then why mention anything at all?
You could have just made a thread reminding people about the respect needed for animals.


----------



## skunk (Jul 30, 2008)

iv already got sdaji to sign my deathie...i figured it may be worth a fair bit when i put it up on ebay for sale.


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Jul 30, 2008)

Sorry guys and girls, it wasn't me...I spent the morning in Dalby doing awareness seminars and the afternoon in the Brigalow herping


----------



## callith (Jul 30, 2008)

DragonKeeper said:


> http://www.thaipan.com/
> 
> yeah the one in the middle looks like she would kill.



haha lol


----------



## moosenoose (Jul 30, 2008)

BT said:


> What bragging rights,why would you "brag"about being bitten



I think it's a fair call...plenty seem to whinge about being bitten  Those keepers who do manage to get on the receiving end of a bite are just balancing the ledger! :lol:


----------



## Surfcop24 (Jul 30, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> Do you feel better now that you've told APS and you've been the sharer of news?
> 
> If you can't mention details 'due to your job' then why mention anything at all?
> You could have just made a thread reminding people about the respect needed for animals.




Ummmm... Thats what this thread was meant to be....Heance...First Aid..Call Ambulance...And Take Care All!!! 

Thats all it was meant to be.... Not a bagging session about people keeping Elapids.... I too would like to one day....Missus permitting of course.....


----------



## Sdaji (Jul 30, 2008)

DragonKeeper said:


> Hahaha!
> I saw you on the news.
> I want an autograph!!
> Recovering well?
> ...



Everyone keeps asking me if I'm recovering well! :lol:

I'd fully recovered by the time it had been reported  Thanks 

An autograph? :lol:


----------



## moosenoose (Jul 30, 2008)

Well we're all glad you recovered Sdaji  Must have been terrible in that induced coma!


----------



## gillsy (Jul 30, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> It makes a differance because it will not kill you as fast, or do anywhere as much damage as some other snakes such as a Thaipan. For example, if bitten by a Eastern Tiger snake you may get long term, life changing, muscler damage, while the Death Adder may only be deadly over a period of time.
> 
> Im not saying that is fine to be bitten by a Death Adder, im just saying it could of been alot worse. Why can't people understand that?


 
Well lets be worse, if I eat a peanut tomorrow I die. Are you saying that's worse than a taipan bite. But it must be because I can wrap a taipan bite and that will give me a few hours. But if I eat a peanut i've probably got 1-2 mins before my airways close up and I suffocate. 
Any snake that bites you is the worse one.

Can't believe i'm standing up for sdaji here, however it wasn't the venom that got him it was an illergic reaction (correct me if i'm wrong here) to the venom so a bite is a bite doesn't matter what it is from.


----------



## gillsy (Jul 30, 2008)

But that's ok... because we know you love THAIPANS.


----------



## Sdaji (Jul 30, 2008)

moosenoose said:


> Well we're all glad you recovered Sdaji  Must have been terrible in that induced coma!



I like the way the paramedic told the news that on arrival at hospital I was still in an altered state of mind! Hehe, maybe we should show him that Gorgeous Tiny Chicken Machine thread, and several of the ones I made before the bite. That way he'll understand it was just me being normal :lol: I still can't understand why he would say that :lol: I suppose it wasn't quite as inaccurate as the reports that I had died  I loved the looks on the faces when I walked into the local lab after the bite :lol: They all went pale! They thought I was dead :lol:


----------



## Sdaji (Jul 30, 2008)

gillsy said:


> Can't believe i'm standing up for sdaji here, however it wasn't the venom that got him it was an illergic reaction (correct me if i'm wrong here) to the venom so a bite is a bite doesn't matter what it is from.



Yes, that's right. If 99.99% of people took as much venom as I had they'd have nothing more severe than a bit of an itchy, stinging end of their middle finger. I wouldn't have taken the same risk with anything other than a tiny little baby. As gillsy says, and as I pointed out in many interviews last month, the type of reaction I had (anaphylaxis) was the same thing many people get from peanuts. Potentially you can get anaphylaxis from anything at all.

Since I've said that tiny baby Death Adders aren't too dangerous (allergic reactions aside), I should say that Death Adders are extremely dangerous snakes. I don't know why anyone is suggesting that they're not all that venomous. Many people consider them to be the fifth deadliest in the world (behind Tigers, Coastal Taipans, Eastern Browns and Inland Taipans, in that order). That may not be perfectly accurate, but they're certainly up there with the deadliest.


----------



## moosenoose (Jul 31, 2008)

I always say to people...be careful when crossing the road, it's always the car that lashes out and hits you that is the deadliest!  Those evil machines!!!


----------



## Danda_Reptilia (Jul 31, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Everyone keeps asking me if I'm recovering well! :lol:
> 
> I'd fully recovered by the time it had been reported  Thanks
> 
> An autograph? :lol:





Glad all is ok Sdaji....Didn't want you suffering any lasting effects while chasing tigers down here.....LOL


----------



## Sdaji (Jul 31, 2008)

Haha, no, certainly not! I'll most certainly be carrying an epipen though, as every good field herper should! I'm sure no one will bother though. I know I thought it was silly when I was out with other people who carried them until I'd landed in a situation where I needed one!

Chasing Tigers sounds like lots of fun


----------



## snakehandler (Jul 31, 2008)

I always have to laugh at LD50 values for the potency of venom....testing is typically on mice....how many beaked sea snakes eat mice? Venom is designed to assist in the immobilization and killing of prey items, so it is prey specific, yes other organisms are affected by it but as it is not the intended prey item, the effects will vary....and the statement deadly implies the number of human fatalities.....with an average of only 2 snake bite deaths in Australia each year this would imply that we do not have many deadly snakes....perhaps some of the most potent venom in the world but not the deadliest.


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

i think i lean towards shane on this one.........................mmmmmmmmmmm you compare the death adder with the likes of taipan...........if you had said something like white crowned or even yellow whip (fair enough, these snakes are not to much of a bother to be bitten by ) ,,,,,,,,,but dont under estimate a adder bite for goodness sake.........


----------



## snakehandler (Jul 31, 2008)

Never underestimate any of the venomous bites, some people have allergic reactions, or complications due to medication they are currently on.....


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

more people have been known to be allergic to the anti- ven,because of the horse product.,bad thing is you wont know that untill it happens to you .............(is praying her time if ever she wont be allergic to the horsy stuff)


----------



## junglepython2 (Jul 31, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> more people have been known to be allergic to the anti- ven,because of the horse product.,bad thing is you wont know that untill it happens to you .............(is praying her time if ever she wont be allergic to the horsy stuff)


 
Much better being allergic to the anti-venom then the venom itself.


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

mmmmmmmmm thats a hard one I just hope I never get tagged to be put in that predicament................but as a catcher i play with fire ,and as the saying goes PLAY WITH FIRE ONE DAY YOU WILL GET BURNT..heres hoping I only get a blister...


----------



## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

snakehandler said:


> I always have to laugh at LD50 values for the potency of venom....testing is typically on mice....how many beaked sea snakes eat mice? Venom is designed to assist in the immobilization and killing of prey items, so it is prey specific, yes other organisms are affected by it but as it is not the intended prey item, the effects will vary....and the statement deadly implies the number of human fatalities.....with an average of only 2 snake bite deaths in Australia each year this would imply that we do not have many deadly snakes....perhaps some of the most potent venom in the world but not the deadliest.


 

We have low death rates due to our healthy system, and how we respond to bites.

True adder bites in Africa kill 1000's every year, but not because they're even in the top 10 but because the have no access to medical help and I would even say have no idea bout first aid.


----------



## snakehandler (Jul 31, 2008)

We defiantly have some of the most venomous snakes in the world, however as you have stated....we have a low death rate...also read the comments on venomdoc about LD 50 values and their reliability....if we want to look at what the venom potency is like then that is much more relevant.


----------



## jessb (Jul 31, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Man, some people can't come up with an original gimmick! :lol:


 
:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

The venom toxicity, the venom yield, the injection equipment and the readiness of the snake to bite are all relevant when assessing how dangerous a snake is. However the reluctance of the reptile keeper to respect any or all of these points is what makes for a dangerous situation. What i am basically saying is that if you choose to keep elapids in your collection or if , as i am, you are involved wild reptile capture and release/relocation work, be well aware of the risks involved and make every effort to look after yourself and the animal. A point that was made very early in this thread was that, the last thing venomous snakes and snakes in general need is anymore bad publicity. I am sure we here all love our reptillian mates and it is up to us to help dispell the massive amount of ignorance and uncertainty that surrounds these wonderful critters.


----------



## -Peter (Jul 31, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> more people have been known to be allergic to the anti- ven,because of the horse product.,bad thing is you wont know that untill it happens to you .............(is praying her time if ever she wont be allergic to the horsy stuff)



Its pretty easy to find out and I usually urge people who have allergies to other things to find out first before moving in rescue and relocation.


----------



## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

I have my rescue course this weekend


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

ERRRRRRRM .........if you obtain a permit to keep vens or have a damage mit permit then YOU SHOULD know the risks and be able to take every precaution known when handling vens, what alot of non ven keepers think is ridiculous.......we dont do it to get bitten we are not thrill seekers and certainly do not go in blind when either catching or keeping vens ,we are aware that they can kill us.....BUT its our own interests and pashion that keeps us doing it and we dont need some halfwit commenting on a subject that they know nothing about .......if keeping vens are not your idea of a hobby thats your choice ,but dont make stupid comments about us that do ......as I have seen more stupidity done with pythons then any other snake .you would never get a elapid keeper asking HAS ANYBODY BEEN BITTEN ON THE EYEBALL....... think before you make a statement especially if you have not got a clue what your talking about.......


----------



## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> ERRRRRRRM .........if you obtain a permit to keep vens or have a damage mit permit then YOU SHOULD know the risks and be able to take every precaution known when handling vens, what alot of non ven keepers think is ridiculous.......we dont do it to get bitten we are not thrill seekers and certainly do not go in blind when either catching or keeping vens ,we are aware that they can kill us.....BUT its our own interests and pashion that keeps us doing it and we dont need some halfwit commenting on a subject that they know nothing about .......if keeping vens are not your idea of a hobby thats your choice ,but dont make stupid comments about us that do ......as I have seen more stupidity done with pythons then any other snake .you would never get a elapid keeper asking HAS ANYBODY BEEN BITTEN ON THE EYEBALL....... think before you make a statement especially if you have not got a clue what your talking about.......


 

My sediments exactly


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

I hope that wasnt aimed at my statement dude, if you are keeping dangerously venomous snakes and you get bitten then you are doing something wrong, you dont have to be an intellectual to understand that. 

I deal with venomous snakes everyday of my life and i dont think that you should pass me off as somebody that doesnt know what he is doing or talking about.

FACT: If you keep venomous snakes and you get bitten you are doing something WRONG!!!!


----------



## oddball (Jul 31, 2008)

WELL!
I just hope the mystery man (or woman) is ok.
For the people having a go at Mystery Snake Bite Person for being careless, or keeping vens without knowing what they're doing, If you read the post, it was a snake HANDLER, which could mean anything from breeder to the rescue guy. If a rescue dude had to remove an irate death adder from an awkward place, i'd assume that there is the risk that he/she is going to get bitten, no matter how safe and professional they acted.

I'm not an expert on handling vens (or an expert at anything really ), but safety precautions for _anything _are risk minimisation techniques, they do not make you bulletproof and invincible, they just reduce your liklihood of getting shot .

So IMO it's innocent until proven guilty; he/she might have been doing everything right and just got bad luck. 

I think the real message we should be taking from this, is that first aid works if the worst case scenario plays out, and is an important tool in keeping you alive. We should all know what to do in the event of a snake bite.


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

Scutatus,firstly I am FEMALE so not a dude , and secondly not aimed at you ,I AM A PERMIT HOLDER WITH QLD PARKS AND WILDLIFE........I catch vens too .....I dont agree with your doing something wrong its more like accidents happen even to the best and as long as you have put safety 1st ,sometimes ****e happens.my comments were made to people that make statements about this subject and have not got a clue what they are talking about ok.....


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

My original statement was not aimed at blaming anybody, i personally dont care about people being bitten by snakes, what i do care about is any adverse reaction that wild populations suffer from the over hyped media kick back that results from these incidents.
I know what people have to go through to get dangerously venomous snake licensing. I am aware of that.

I also would correctly admit that i took my eye off the ball if i was to ever get bitten. I am not so arrogant as to assume that it wouldn't be my fault.
Snakes bite people when they feel it necessary to defend themselves, its not something they do for fun. Different species react in different ways and different individuals react differently again. There is no abosolute in this game, so one must cater for every eventuality. 
The crux of what i am saying is that the unpredictable nature of what all of us are involved in should be foremost in all of our minds before, during and after undertaking any activities that involve being in the proximity of dangerously venomous snakes. I am not pointing the finger at anyone.


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

So accident implies that nobody is to blame and there was absolutley no way that the incident could be prevented whatsoever?

I am sure if we were to investigate every incident you would find that there are very few if any true "accidents"

sorry about the dude thing.


----------



## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

well thats where we differ I DO CARE ABOUT BEING BITTEN......and try as I will not to be in that predicament,but as a catcher myself and every situation is different I am at a high risk of being bitten either because I have dropped the ball or it was just something that unfortunatly happend....I do agree the media hype puts a dark cloud over us but every call out I go to ,I try and educate the people about the snake and how and why and what to do for further encounters..thats all I can do ..........


----------



## Tatelina (Jul 31, 2008)

gillsy said:


> I have my rescue course this weekend



Your signature has grammatical errors.


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

Well thats all settled then......... anyone fancy a pint?


----------



## snakehandler (Jul 31, 2008)

Accidents do happen, it can be a simple misjudgment, no-one should ever believe that they can stop all incidents of captive vens biting....however any person who keeps vens should, and most likely would accept the fact that bites happen, you need to do everything you can to prevent it, and prepare for a bite. 

We have procedures in our ven areas to minimize risk of bite, but as with pythons, something can go wrong and bites happen (so far we have had none)......you just work hard at making sure it doesn't happen to you. In no way should a person think that it is always a case of poor skills or wrong attitude when ven keepers get bitten.


----------



## jessb (Jul 31, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> Your signature has grammatical errors.


 
where???


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 31, 2008)

Adders lovely little Adders.


----------



## urodacus_au (Jul 31, 2008)

scutatus said:


> The venom toxicity, the venom yield, the injection equipment and the readiness of the snake to bite are all relevant when assessing how dangerous a snake is. However the reluctance of the reptile keeper to respect any or all of these points is what makes for a dangerous situation. What i am basically saying is that if you choose to keep elapids in your collection or if , as i am, you are involved wild reptile capture and release/relocation work, be well aware of the risks involved and make every effort to look after yourself and the animal. A point that was made very early in this thread was that, the last thing venomous snakes and snakes in general need is anymore bad publicity. I am sure we here all love our reptillian mates and it is up to us to help dispell the massive amount of ignorance and uncertainty that surrounds these wonderful critters.



Well said. Less bites or atleast keeping the bites quiet and without media hype is better for the animals and Elapid keepers in the long run.

Jordan


----------



## ttaipan (Jul 31, 2008)

_


urodacus_au said:



Well said. Less bites or atleast keeping the bites quiet and without media hype is better for the animals and Elapid keepers in the long run.

Click to expand...

_


urodacus_au said:


> I spent 7 days in Intensive Care & 7 days in General Ward, 4 blood transfusions with 5 weeks Kidney Dialysis ( Acute Renal Failure) from a Notechis Scutatus bite Oct. 2007.
> It took 29 years to take a bite from a Ven. then it only happened when i picked the "bagged" tiger snake up with thumb under knot instead of picking it up above the knot; can you believe that? I tell you now it is truth! Beautiful/placid snake i'd had for 4 years but very food conscious.
> My incident did not even make the local paper (that is because my wife took me to hospital, not Ambo's) if i'd gone to hospital by Ambo it wouldve been in the news for 2 weeks. It was the sole reason why i didnt use Ambo's to go to the hospital. Venomous or non venomous dont need bad media publicity.
> My hospital stay did draw a number of medical authourities from Melb. on numerous occasions to monitor me as a case study thou.
> If you keep vens. sooner or latter you will get nailed!! The probable cause will be lax in concentration or over confident.


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

Good on you guys (and girls!!!!), its all about staying alive, enjoying the hobby and taking care of the interests of the animals.


----------



## moosenoose (Jul 31, 2008)

snakehandler said:


> Never underestimate any of the venomous bites, some people have allergic reactions, or complications due to medication they are currently on.....



....ain't that the truth


----------



## scutatus (Jul 31, 2008)

This is Ebsy, has been in care for quite a while, was a cat attack with extensive wounds to it's neck. I had to administer subcutaneous antibiotics/fluids and clean up the wounds every other day for two weeks........ that had me sweating at times. Doing really well now and will be rejoining the wildlife in Waroongha NSW in early summertime.


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 1, 2008)

Peter, I am allergic to bee stings,and suffer from asthma, I did bring that subject up when my son was getting allergy tests done for his problems and asked about the epi -pen and was told that I wouldnt know my resistance towards venom untill it happend,so basically he told me dont worry about a pen as they can do more damage if used and not having a anaphalactic(spelling) attack .just to keep my puffer on hand which I do .......reckon I should see another doctor ???????


----------



## snakehandler (Aug 1, 2008)

The question I have to ask is: Don't we as the general public have a right to privacy....why should the ambo's be allowed to give out details of the purpose of the ride......and in some cases the address of the victim?


----------



## gillsy (Aug 1, 2008)

Exactly it's breaking doctor/patient confidentiality.


----------



## snakehandler (Aug 1, 2008)

I thought we all had a right to pay for a service (ambulance membership is a must when owning vens or working with them) and that our details were private......


----------



## -Peter (Aug 1, 2008)

Redbellybite, I'd be wanting a bit more reassurance than lets see what happens. Sdaji, you talked with Williams so I'm guessing you have up to date info on this subject.
Snakehandler, there are people monitoring the emergency frequencies. They give out the private information, not the ambos. Lay off the ambos, I'd trust their judgement over most people on this site anyday.


----------



## gillsy (Aug 1, 2008)

I think this topic is dead, lets all agree to disagree.


----------



## snakehandler (Aug 1, 2008)

In the case of Sdaji it was the ambo's making comments on the TV....clearly this is not keeping peoples information private, and yes of course there are people monitoring the frequencies, this is how they get news....so what are we to do as keepers of vens? Get our loved ones to drive us to hospital?.....this may not always be the best option, there are privacy laws, these should have some impact on the details that can be given out by the media!


----------



## waruikazi (Aug 1, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Wow, I wonder how it happened? Sometimes you may think why are they licenced if they are careless enought to get bitten. Lucky it wasn't something more deadly.



With correct first aid and medical treatment how deadly it is matters little. There's stuff all difference between a fierce snake and a gwardar bite, left untreated they both can and will kill you.

I don't remember who said that catching vens isn't about the adrenalin rush... I'll put my flame suit on but for me that's a huge part of it. I love the rush of fear that i get, i compare it to extreme sports. I'll never forget the buzz i got when i tailed my first angry western. That doesn't mean i take unnecessary risks, I think having a healthy fear of things that can kill you is very very important.


----------



## ttaipan (Aug 1, 2008)

Its solely an individual decision by what means you go to hospital. If you go by Ambo's i dont think anyone would criticize you for it. I sincerely hope they wouldnt. Ambo's have my full respect. I have nothing but praise for them. The Media listening in on emergency services radio traffic is the problem!


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 1, 2008)

I was under the impression that the ambos made statements ect after sdaji had gone public with bite..
I might be wrong...
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt...-b0adeadb590d&fg=rss&from=imbot_en-au_general
Im sure they are not allowed to contact papers everytime they have an interesting story, 
i may be wrong here to.
The headline of "SNAKEBITE" is an attractive one for journos because it's a bit different and evokes a lot of emotions,,A bit like a dog attack..
Im sure you forfiet your right to privacy when you agree to media interviews.


----------



## Rocky (Aug 1, 2008)

junglepython2 said:


> If it can still kill you what difference does it make?


 
So inhaling smoke, from a ciggarette can kill you. But slowly. But inhaling toxic fumes, which can kill in no time at all... But hey.. what difference does it make?

Is this what you mean?


----------



## Bouncer (Aug 1, 2008)

I wish people would either tell the whole story or shut up.
NO it was NOT John from Just Reptiles either.
How many other snake handlers are having their name bandied about with all the rumours.


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 1, 2008)

-Peter: I haven't spoken to Williams about epipens, but as you'd expect, I've spoken to quite a few people about them lately. If you keep venomous snakes or have anything to do with them, get yourself an epipen and keep it handy, including when you're in the field. You're mad not to. If you go into anaphylaxis you can be dead within 10 minutes. If I was with someone who was going into serious anaphylaxis and I knew medical help was more than 5-10 minutes away (which is almost always going to be the case in the field), I wouldn't hesitate to use the epipen on them. Sure, there's a chance the epipen might kill them, but it's a heck of a lot smaller than the chance of them being killed by anaphylaxis, and you're highly likely to save their life. If it's clear the anaphylaxis is going to kill them, why wouldn't you give them (or yourself) the shot?

As for the paramedics, yes, they do sometimes unethically give our peoples' information, which is absolutely disgusting. When you've just been through something which is serious enough to make it into the news, you and your loved ones are probably going through a pretty traumatic time and the last thing you want is the media exposure, let alone people knowing about the details of your symptoms, especially when they are not even correct. In my case it wasn't all that bad as I made a full recovery extremely quickly and wasn't concerned about my own health or safety by the time the reports were out. The media reports were the most difficult thing for me and my loved ones to deal with, especially when the paramedics who were on the scene exaggerated the story in front of the television camera, presumably so they'd look 'cool' ("Look at me, I was there when something interesting happened!"). When someone exaggerates a story about the fish he caught while talking to his mates at the pub, it really doesn't matter. When he exaggerates your symptoms on national television, your friends and family go into panic. When I see paramedics on the news now, talking about peoples' personal details, I understand the problem in a way which had never before ocurred to me, and I see how serious it is. 

Contrary to popular belief, I didn't want to be in the spotlight, I was refusing to communicate with the media for hours, until the reports were going out about me being close to death/soon to die after being "attacked" by a snake, etc etc. At that point I saw that it was necessary to show people that I was completely fine, happy to bounce around, joke and laugh with camera crews, and that the bite was my fault entirely, rather than me being the poor helpless victim of a monster we should all fear and kill.

The vultures who listen to the emergency frequencies and give out personal details are worse, but sometimes the paramedics are deplorable. I'm sure it's only a very few bad apples spoiling things though, and most of them are brilliant people doing a brilliant job, out of the spotlight.

If not for anaphylaxis, if I was in the same situation again I would drive myself to hospital rather than get an ambulance, partly to save taxpayer dollars and partly to prevent the story escaping. Not only is the media attention damaging to people, but giving them a reason to fear calling 000 is a serious safety issue. I certainly would never, ever criticise someone for choosing to take an ambulance though. At the end of the day, staying alive is the most important thing.

Gillsy: I see you still can't spell, but it's good to see you're capable of letting other people help you with it


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 1, 2008)

ssssnakeman said:


> I was under the impression that the ambos made statements ect after sdaji had gone public with bite..
> I might be wrong...
> http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt...-b0adeadb590d&fg=rss&from=imbot_en-au_general
> Im sure they are not allowed to contact papers everytime they have an interesting story,
> ...



Watch the news, this happens every week. Often the paramedics talk to the television crews while the victim is still unconcious, or even if they died. It's not unusual to see the actual victims on the television before they've even regained consciousness, while their loved ones are still in tears and unaware of their surroundings. Sometimes you even see people on the news completely in shock or in tears, screaming or sulking requests/demands for the cameras to be taken away. Compared to that, my story is nothing, and those people have my deepest sympathies.


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 1, 2008)

sssssnakeman: Yes, the paramedics did talk to the media after I had done so, but they also did it while I was still refusing to speak to the media, and before I even knew the media had heard about it. My choice would have been for the media to get none of the story, but that choice was taken away from me. After it became necessary for me to deal with the media I still don't think it's okay for the paramedics to talk to them about the symptoms I experienced. What I do and don't want people to know about the symptoms I experienced is my business, not theirs; if I saw a few words about the story it doesn't give them the right to give out more information than I've told, and I certainly didn't want exaggerated versions being told - nothing excuses that.

Perhaps it's worth saying that many of the media folks I met that day were a lot of fun, I quite enjoyed working with most of them. They're not all bad either


----------



## waruikazi (Aug 1, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> sssssnakeman:
> Perhaps it's worth saying that many of the media folks I met that day were a lot of fun, I quite enjoyed working with most of them. They're not all bad either



But they all have bad streaks in them and nearly all of them would stab their own grandmother in the back for a good story. Doesn't mean they aren't likable people though.


----------



## junglepython2 (Aug 1, 2008)

Rocky said:


> So inhaling smoke, from a ciggarette can kill you. But slowly. But inhaling toxic fumes, which can kill in no time at all... But hey.. what difference does it make?
> 
> Is this what you mean?


 
No it's not what I mean, an adder bite can kill you much quicker then slowly.


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Aug 1, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> ERRRRRRRM .........if you obtain a permit to keep vens or have a damage mit permit then YOU SHOULD know the risks and be able to take every precaution known when handling vens, what alot of non ven keepers think is ridiculous.......we dont do it to get bitten we are not thrill seekers and certainly do not go in blind when either catching or keeping vens ,we are aware that they can kill us.....BUT its our own interests and pashion that keeps us doing it and we dont need some halfwit commenting on a subject that they know nothing about .......if keeping vens are not your idea of a hobby thats your choice ,but dont make stupid comments about us that do ......as I have seen more stupidity done with pythons then any other snake .you would never get a elapid keeper asking HAS ANYBODY BEEN BITTEN ON THE EYEBALL....... think before you make a statement especially if you have not got a clue what your talking about.......




Here here. Not currently licenced for vens, but am studying hard and will be undergoing courses throughout the remainder of the year. What a lot of people (not necessarily herp loving or understanding) is the fact the ven keepers do not just do it for a hobby. I know my interests are scientific/educational. The more we can learn about our venomous snakes and animals the better we will be as a community.

Do't forget it is the dangerous nature of our venomous snakes and the unfortunate victims in the past which have caused the current attitude towards all snakes by our uneducated community. 

What we need, and I keep saying this in these sorts of threads is an education campaign designed for school kids before they are taught the message all snakes are dangerous. I know I will cop flack for that remark, but what I mean by it is a healthy understanding learned by our children in schools at a young age.

My daughter is six and if ever asked by any person what to do if she ever sees a snake in the wild she will respond calmly "Stop, stand like a tree, assess what the snake is doing and carefully retreat away from it and inform an adult". 

If more kids grow up learning a snake is not out there to hunt down and kill everyone they see, then maybe we can improve the reputation of our hobby.

In relation to ven keepers getting bitten. I would love to see the statistics on how many people own ven, how many vens are actually owned and how many bites occur. Per capita and based on the number of ven keepers I can only assume that it is no where near the amount killed and injured in motor vehicle accidents.

Well, that is my two-cents worth guys, flame as you see fit, but that is my opinion.

Cheers

FNQ_Snake


----------



## whatsup (Aug 1, 2008)

not all is private anyway. not much is missed with a good uhf police scanner with all 20 emergency service channels : ).


----------



## urodacus_au (Aug 1, 2008)

ttaipan said:


> _
> 
> 
> urodacus_au said:
> ...


----------



## -Peter (Aug 1, 2008)

-Peter said:


> Lay off the ambos, I'd trust their judgement over most people on this site anyday.


 
I just realised that this may have been misconstrued, It was a statement of support for ambulance officers in general not at any particular member of this forum.


----------



## moosenoose (Aug 1, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> but sometimes the paramedics are deplorable.



I know a few who attend the local footy who I'm sure hang around the morgue looking for their next date  They aren't all roses 8)


----------



## moosenoose (Aug 1, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> ERRRRRRRM .........if you obtain a permit to keep vens or have a damage mit permit then YOU SHOULD know the risks and be able to take every precaution known when handling vens, what alot of non ven keepers think is ridiculous.......we dont do it to get bitten we are not thrill seekers and certainly do not go in blind when either catching or keeping vens ,we are aware that they can kill us.....BUT its our own interests and pashion that keeps us doing it and we dont need some halfwit commenting on a subject that they know nothing about .......if keeping vens are not your idea of a hobby thats your choice ,but dont make stupid comments about us that do ......as I have seen more stupidity done with pythons then any other snake .you would never get a elapid keeper asking HAS ANYBODY BEEN BITTEN ON THE EYEBALL....... think before you make a statement especially if you have not got a clue what your talking about.......




Hahaha as someone mentioned earlier! This is sooo on the money! Brilliant RBB!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## ttaipan (Aug 2, 2008)

urodacus_au;
[I said:


> _Thats the way to play it, keep a low profile. I can believe it, had tigers latch onto the inside of bags in the past, most often under the knot trying to get out :lol: Tigers have copped a lot of flack in the past, truth be known they can be some of the most placid, easy to handle snakes around.
> _
> Jordan[/i]
> 
> ...


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 2, 2008)

well Peter and Sadji,thanks for the info will be seeking a epi-pen after reading that .I think the docs theory was that me suffering asthma ,might give me the wrong sign if having a reaction or just a plain attack if you know what i am trying to say BUT either way I still cant breathe ,so all pre-cautions shall be taken .....and yeah sadji most of my call outs are from 55kms to 10kms away from the hospital.......so bit scary .......we do get care flight choppers when needed in my local town as the nearest hospital being Gympie is at least 55kms away.,,,but if in Gympie at a call out, well a ambo would come........


----------



## urodacus_au (Aug 2, 2008)

ttaipan said:


> urodacus_au;
> [I said:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BrownHash (Aug 2, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> well Peter and Sadji,thanks for the info will be seeking a epi-pen after reading that .I think the docs theory was that me suffering asthma ,might give me the wrong sign if having a reaction or just a plain attack if you know what i am trying to say BUT either way I still cant breathe ,so all pre-cautions shall be taken .....and yeah sadji most of my call outs are from 55kms to 10kms away from the hospital.......so bit scary .......we do get care flight choppers when needed in my local town as the nearest hospital being Gympie is at least 55kms away.,,,but if in Gympie at a call out, well a ambo would come........



I've been trying to get an Epipen, but for some reason they just wont hand them out. I even went to my doctor and asked for one, he told me that since I don't have any record of severe allergic reaction that I'm unable to get one. I think this is rubbish because sometimes I can be 2 or 3 hours away from the nearest hospital when I work. 

Does anyone know what is the best way of obtaining a epipen. Also how do you go about finding out if your allergic to snake bite?


----------



## junglepython2 (Aug 2, 2008)

I enquired you can get them without an Rx and costs around $105. If you have a health care card and an Rx you are looking at around $5.

For an anaphylatic reaction you need prior sentisation so if you haven't been bitten before you should be safe for the time being. (From an allergic reaction that is not from the venom itself.)


----------



## nuthn2do (Aug 2, 2008)

BrownHash said:


> I've been trying to get an Epipen, but for some reason they just wont hand them out. I even went to my doctor and asked for one, he told me that since I don't have any record of severe allergic reaction that I'm unable to get one. I think this is rubbish because sometimes I can be 2 or 3 hours away from the nearest hospital when I work.
> 
> Does anyone know what is the best way of obtaining a epipen. Also how do you go about finding out if your allergic to snake bite?


You could be allergic to a lot of things you haven't experienced yet, doesn't mean they'll give you a epipen for the hell of it. These things are $130 each and only last about 8 months


----------



## ttaipan (Aug 2, 2008)

urodacus_au said:


> ttaipan said:
> 
> 
> > What exactly was wrong about what i posted? I havent bagged too many wild tigers and had them bite due to feeding response :lol: Settle down, merely pointing out that i have had experience with tigers biting through bags. Like i said, im dealing with wild animals that are being relocated, strangely enough they arent generally in the mood for a quick lunch after being caught and bagged up :? And yes it was your mistake, not doubting it, maybe you should be more careful in future :lol:
> ...


----------



## waruikazi (Aug 3, 2008)

junglepython2 said:


> I enquired you can get them without an Rx and costs around $105. If you have a health care card and an Rx you are looking at around $5.
> 
> For an anaphylatic reaction you need prior sentisation so if you haven't been bitten before you should be safe for the time being. (From an allergic reaction that is not from the venom itself.)



There are other ways of being exposed to snake venom other than being bitten. It is quite possible for dry venom to become airborne and inhaled (obviously non-lethal ammounts). Do the horses that are used for anti-venom production ever have allergic reactions to the venom?


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 3, 2008)

I am able to get a pen as being allergic to bee stings is good enough for the docs to prescribe me one....will def get one ,hope its never put to use and as far as lasting 8 hours would certainly be in a hospital before that ........


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2008)

check out www.allergycentre.com.au or www.epipen.com.au . has all the info .
cheers steve


----------



## eipper (Aug 3, 2008)

Just on epi pens..they don't give you 8 hours of protection.....It is suggested that use of anti histimines first and then if required use an epi pen.....however they need to be prescribed by doctor for good reason. I only got mine after going into mild anaphylactic shock (trouble breathing, swelling of lips and throat, rashes, itchyness, ears and sinus blocking, eyes running etc) after a bite from a "medically insignificant " species in the field.

Adrenaline makes the heart beat faster, in snake bite first aid you want to remain still, calm and relaxed...this is to slow the spread of the venom by slowing down the rate of the body.....by the administration of an epipen you are counter acting these effects and causing the venom move faster through your body.

Cheers,
Scott Eipper


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 3, 2008)

Waruikazi, I admit I get a big RUSH when catching but not in a meathead thrill seeker way was what I meant when I made that comment,I think you need that rush its what keeps you on your toes ,especially when catching Eastern Browns ,they usually keep my ring tight and a knot in my gut but for all good reason..I did get a bit laid back when catching a rbbs it was behind a hotwater system ,I had hooked her and was pulling her back towards me, managed to tail her then seeming relaxed as she was I turned my head to see where my bag was and WHAM she flew up at me missed my hand by about 10cm,I had new coloured undies on after that!! and the look on my face was a dead give away.the dear old biddy that called me said "Are you ok dear,I would love to help but I am nearly 80" so I have learnt never be laid back in any situation not even when it comes to the quiet rbbs...


----------



## Tatelina (Aug 3, 2008)

snakehandler said:


> The question I have to ask is: Don't we as the general public have a right to privacy....why should the ambo's be allowed to give out details of the purpose of the ride......and in some cases the address of the victim?



Quoted for emphasis.


----------



## beeman (Aug 3, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> I am able to get a pen as being allergic to bee stings is good enough for the docs to prescribe me one....will def get one ,hope its never put to use and as far as lasting 8 hours would certainly be in a hospital before that ........


 
If you do get a pen check the dates on it as a lot of them in the pharmacys are very low on shelf life[Close to expiry]. We carry them as well as vials of adrenalin in our first aid kits
for work. They need to be kept cool as well.


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 3, 2008)

thanks beeman , how long is a normal shelf life for a pen?


----------



## beeman (Aug 3, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> thanks beeman , how long is a normal shelf life for a pen?


 
When we redo our kits we get them to order in new ones, and as long as they are kept cool 
you should get 12 months.
We have found if we dont get them to order in new one the ones on the shelf may only have 1 or 2 months on them and its not a drug to mess with in regards to shelf life


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Aug 3, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> Waruikazi, I admit I get a big RUSH when catching but not in a meathead thrill seeker way was what I meant when I made that comment,I think you need that rush its what keeps you on your toes ,especially when catching Eastern Browns ,they usually keep my ring tight and a knot in my gut but for all good reason..I did get a bit laid back when catching a rbbs it was behind a hotwater system ,I had hooked her and was pulling her back towards me, managed to tail her then seeming relaxed as she was I turned my head to see where my bag was and WHAM she flew up at me missed my hand by about 10cm,I had new coloured undies on after that!! and the look on my face was a dead give away.the dear old biddy that called me said "Are you ok dear,I would love to help but I am nearly 80" so I have learnt never be laid back in any situation not even when it comes to the quiet rbbs...



Bang on the money there RBB, if not for adrenalin concentration levels could lapse at the most inopportune time. Well brought up.


----------



## BrownHash (Aug 3, 2008)

eipper said:


> Adrenaline makes the heart beat faster, in snake bite first aid you want to remain still, calm and relaxed...this is to slow the spread of the venom by slowing down the rate of the body.....by the administration of an epipen you are counter acting these effects and causing the venom move faster through your body.
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott Eipper



Can't this be countered by proper first aid? Doesn't snake venom work through the lymphatic system and not the blood?


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Aug 3, 2008)

BrownHash said:


> Can't this be countered by proper first aid? Doesn't snake venom work through the lymphatic system and not the blood?



That is correct. The lymphatic system also uses movement of the human body to "flow". But then again, there are a hell of a lot of different venoms out there and different ways in which they affect the body.


----------



## waruikazi (Aug 3, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> Waruikazi, I admit I get a big RUSH when catching but not in a meathead thrill seeker way was what I meant when I made that comment,I think you need that rush its what keeps you on your toes ,especially when catching Eastern Browns ,they usually keep my ring tight and a knot in my gut but for all good reason..I did get a bit laid back when catching a rbbs it was behind a hotwater system ,I had hooked her and was pulling her back towards me, managed to tail her then seeming relaxed as she was I turned my head to see where my bag was and WHAM she flew up at me missed my hand by about 10cm,I had new coloured undies on after that!! and the look on my face was a dead give away.the dear old biddy that called me said "Are you ok dear,I would love to help but I am nearly 80" so I have learnt never be laid back in any situation not even when it comes to the quiet rbbs...



I had an experience similar to that. I was out releasing a large western when i was first getting into snake catching. I hooked it out of the plastic tub it was in then it flew off the hook and over my shoulder. It flew a good ten meters further when i launched the hook away from me as fast as i possibly could. It was a genuine wake up call that i certainly don't know everything.


----------



## darkangel (Aug 3, 2008)

glad to hear your ok! my goodness ur girlfriend must have been scared to. hope she is doing ok as well!


----------



## baxtor (Aug 3, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> I am able to get a pen as being allergic to bee stings is good enough for the docs to prescribe me one....will def get one ,hope its never put to use and as far as lasting 8 hours would certainly be in a hospital before that ........


 
You may have confused the quoted shelf life of 8 MONTHS, not 8 hours


----------



## eipper (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes venomous does travel through the lymphatic system but the speed at which the lymphatic system operates is controlled by the heart rate.

Cheers,
Scott


----------



## gonsnaken (Aug 4, 2008)

Shane black is right qand hed be one person who would know 
right shane


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 4, 2008)

lol so I did ..........baxtor thanks for picking that up lol.......i read it wrong ......


----------



## urodacus_au (Aug 4, 2008)

ttaipan said:


> urodacus_au said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan, i sincerely apologise for the way my text came across. I'm still getting use to computer language.I've only just realised i was yelling when i wrote: WRONG!  I assume that is what upset you?
> ...


----------



## prettyinmetal (Aug 4, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Everyone keeps asking me if I'm recovering well! :lol:
> 
> I'd fully recovered by the time it had been reported  Thanks
> 
> An autograph? :lol:



fly that out the window! thats crazy im so glad your ok! I think ill just stick to my good ole non venomous species myself!


----------

