# Pied childrens python (american of course)



## craig.a.c (Jul 30, 2006)

Found these pics on another web site and thought people would be interested in seeing what the yanks are up to.


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## craig.a.c (Jul 30, 2006)

one more


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## Snow1369 (Jul 30, 2006)

they have to go a nd wreck everything those yanks!


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## Velten (Jul 30, 2006)

what does it acctually mean by pied, i mean i know what they look like but wat acctually is it


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## Kyro (Jul 30, 2006)

It looks very odd!


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## craig.a.c (Jul 30, 2006)

Velten said:


> what does it acctually mean by pied, i mean i know what they look like but wat acctually is it



I have no idea. Maybe some more experienced people could tell us!


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## Velten (Jul 30, 2006)

any more experienced people like to shed some light on the pied mystery, personally im not too fond of the look just want to know wat makes it that way


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## junglepython2 (Jul 30, 2006)

I'm not an expert but it looks more like a developmental deformity then a genetic trait


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## AntaresiaLady (Jul 30, 2006)

I think its like 'piebald' in horses. 

Dark horse, white bum patch...at least I think thats it. Don't quote me on that!


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## Ricko (Jul 30, 2006)

they are similar obviously to the pibald ball python. how in gods name do they get all this weird stuff when these animals originally came from here.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 30, 2006)

Is that the only one craiga.c or is there others??


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## centralian11 (Jul 30, 2006)

the term ''pied'' comes from pigeon breeders . it was used to refer to mismarked birds carrying white .they were considered only fit for a pigeon pie. imo the childrens python could join the birds in that pie .i think not very attractive at all but each to thier own .it could only happen in america. they have ruined many breeds of amimals 
barry


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## Gecko_ProCs (Jul 30, 2006)

thats just retarded


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## Velten (Jul 30, 2006)

mmmm yummy children python pie, interesting


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## craig.a.c (Jul 30, 2006)

junglepython2 said:


> Is that the only one craiga.c or is there others??



I haven't found anymore pics, they are the only ones I know of.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jul 30, 2006)

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/collection/pythons/ball/piebald_ball_python.asp
im no expert either ,but imagine if you hatched a pied childrens yourself. .Ka ching


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## AntaresiaLady (Jul 31, 2006)

Agree with you African....it looks like its hurt....crazy !


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## basketcase (Jul 31, 2006)

i was going to say but it looks like snakeman has said it for me, check out the link he's posted

there's alot of potential in that little childreni


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## Reptile City (Jul 31, 2006)

I like it !
Not so much the one pictured but if they are like the ones with more white blotches like on http://www.ralphdavisreptiles, it would tickle my fancy.  
Only if its not crossed or exotic in any way that is!
If its just a childreni &amp; only a genetic trait then I be in it for sure!

Jason


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

Before people starting making silly comments like 'only in America' and 'they have ruined so many animals' they should realise that this is just a genetic abnormality that happens sometimes and before people start jumping up and down about inbreeding it can happen at anytime. 
These things don't just happen in America and believe me there are plenty of breeders in this country who would be just as happy to 'ruin many breeds'.
I'm sorry I just hate this holier than thou attitude to things.


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## indicus (Jul 31, 2006)

I agree Boa....if it's different, it must be crossed or interbred :roll:....god help it if someone produces something different....


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## Magpie (Jul 31, 2006)

Funny how when someone in australia got one (Wild caught even) that they thought might be piebald everyone was jumping up and down with glee, even though it was far far uglier than that one.


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

That's it exactly, the thing I hate the most is the fact that it MUST be in America, I think there are a lot of people in this country that would be amazed what is happening here. If you were to breed a pied whatever would you throw it in the freezer ? I don't think so.
Indicus, yes it's crazy, we see the same thing with the Jags, they can't possibly have come from a coastal/coastal breeding so they must be a cross breed.


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## AGAMIDAE (Jul 31, 2006)

oh no!!!!!!!


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

I think it's a disgusting freak of nature and should be burnt on the stake so it can be sent back to hell from where it came!!! :twisted: 

More power to the breeders! It's about time that our aussie snakes start competing with those ball pythons! I hope it proves to be genetic and we start seeing some really interesting morphs. But first that animals has to be fertile and then it has to be proven genetic, alot of if's and but's but it should be interesting to see it develop.


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## shamous1 (Jul 31, 2006)

Who spilled the bleach?


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## TrueBlue (Jul 31, 2006)

weird WA stimmie.


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## TrueBlue (Jul 31, 2006)

close up, every time this animal sheds more and more white and apricot appears. These pics were taken about 12 months ago and hes lost a lot more normal colour since then.


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## snakes4me2 (Jul 31, 2006)

You'll have to keep those pics coming trueblue, would be interesting to watch it changing.
Got any recent pics?


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

:lol: 
There is nothing to say it wont be fertile, it's just a standard childreni and it has bee confirmed as genetic already. I agree more power to him, hope he makes a lot of money out of it. 



 waruikazi said:


> I think it's a disgusting freak of nature and should be burnt on the stake so it can be sent back to hell from where it came!!! :twisted:
> 
> More power to the breeders! It's about time that our aussie snakes start competing with those ball pythons! I hope it proves to be genetic and we start seeing some really interesting morphs. But first that animals has to be fertile and then it has to be proven genetic, alot of if's and but's but it should be interesting to see it develop.


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## yommy (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm all for the local specific pure animals but i won't be upset if any of my pythons threw something like this children's, it'll be interesting to see how they develop


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## Glimmerman (Jul 31, 2006)

> But first that animals has to be fertile and then it has to be proven genetic, alot of if's and but's but it should be interesting to see it develop.



A Piebald is a genetic colour mutation - it shouldn't have any effect on it's reproductive capabilities (to my understanding anyway)

I wouldn't even let anyone know I have it - at least for a few years and have bred it to see what else follwed within the offspring :shock:


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Glimmerman said:


> > But first that animals has to be fertile and then it has to be proven genetic, alot of if's and but's but it should be interesting to see it develop.
> 
> 
> 
> A Piebald is a genetic colour mutation - it shouldn't have any effect on it's reproductive capabilities (to my understanding anyway)



Very true, but often when you have a mutation there is often some negative effects on the animal in question which often can be them being sterile... and animals with no mutations can be sterile too. 

I was just making the point that because he has a snake wih a mutation doesn't mean that he will insantly make millions, i mean it could even get RI and die tomorrow.


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## Glimmerman (Jul 31, 2006)

waruikazi said:


> I was just making the point that because he has a snake wih a mutation doesn't mean that he will insantly make millions, i mean it could even get RI and die tomorrow.



This is quite true, the poor creature could die of natural causes or have genetical defects, hence why I made the comment 



> I wouldn't even let anyone know I have it - at least for a few years and have bred it to see what else follwed within the offspring



Personally, I don't think they would make millions out of it anyway, and Why do people always go straight into the $$$ factor of an animal? 

I understand that they are rare and that people want to sell these offspring and Yes in USA they are "all for the pet trade" but I'm sure people do keep and breed reptiles, besides trying to make "millions". I think it is more about trying to stay in the fast paced loop of designer herps and to be a reputable breeder with excellent quality stock.

JMO :wink:


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

I reckon you would be right again Glimmerman. I breed (or more accurately, try to breed) for two reasons, I like the challenge and because it helps to pay for my hobby. But I would be lying if i hatched something like that out and didn't think i could make a bit of extra money out of it, lets face it, if the original breeder doesn't then someone else will.


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## Glimmerman (Jul 31, 2006)

Absolutely, but I would still keep it hush until I bred it, just to make sure it wasn't a one off friek of nature (and fertile) and without any hereditary defects. Then I could show pics and advertise with a positive conscience and that the offspring would hopefully survive the hands of time. And yes with a higher price tag but not over the top either. I would rather sell to someone would will love and appreciate the animal than think of the resale dollar factor.


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

Lets face it though, every breeder is looking at the $$ to varying degrees. I am not talking about the bloke that breeds a couple of coastals or childrens but dedicated breeders with 100 or more animals. They are all on the look out for something different that will bring them in the money and I think that is absolutely fine, it makes absolutely no difference to the animals whether it costs $1 or $1000 but it does potentially make a difference to the buyer, the more you spend on an animal the more you should be inclined to care for that animal.
Now don't misinterpret what I just said, you should care for any animal regardless of whether it is free or costs an arm and a leg BUT the it is quite obvious more effort can go into an animal if it cost a great deal of money. 
Anyway these animals are no more prone to genetic or health problems than any other, it is purely a 'fault' in it's genetics which affects it's colour nothing else.


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## Lurk (Jul 31, 2006)

It looks defected....Why why why??????


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## coastalbob (Jul 31, 2006)

why on earth would you destroy a beatifull python like that. which is effectivly what they have done. :evil: would they do it to thier partner , i think not. they cull certain animals because they cant be controlled, why not certain....


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Why do you say they have destroyed it? Do you think the same way about selectively breeding for particular traits?


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## coastalbob (Jul 31, 2006)

why on earth would you destroy a beatifull python like that. which is effectivly what they have done. would they do it to thier partner , a big coloured band around their body i think not. they cull certain animals because they cant be controlled, why not cull certain.... :twisted:


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

waruikazi said:


> Why do you say they have destroyed it? Do you think the same way about selectively breeding for particular traits?


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## serpen3 (Jul 31, 2006)

good photos


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## PremierPythons (Jul 31, 2006)

Indeed - they've gone mad breeding 'Piebald' variations in Ball Pythons.. Looks like they're starting on ours now.. Looks awful in my opinion...


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## Australis (Jul 31, 2006)

Those "weird WA stimmie" pics, remind me of pictures of BHPs that have pigment loss after each shed.


Matt


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

I agree with what people are saying, that snake will be traumatised for the rest of it's life, what was the owner thinking breeding the parents knowing it might produce these abominations ? What next ? Spotted snakes with stripes ? Albinos ? Maybe even snakes with reduced black ? Rob I assume you are going to destroy that Stimsons ?


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

No no no Boa you are getting it all wrong! estroy both the animals and the breeder!


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

Burnt at the stake ?



waruikazi said:


> No no no Boa you are getting it all wrong! estroy both the animals and the breeder!


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## mysnakesau (Jul 31, 2006)

My first thought was WOW!!! But then I thought it looked as if something could be wrong and its losing its colour.

I love pied varieties in birds, think they are pretty. But this little python needs some more white on him so it looks like a colour variant and not a piece missing. Neon Tetra fish get a disease where they develop white areas (not lesions or spots, just colour missing) like that.


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

boa said:


> Burnt at the stake ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No Fed to an albino retic!


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Hahaha how ironic would that be! :mrgreen:


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

An EXOTIC :shock: 



waruikazi said:


> No Fed to an albino retic!


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## Kersten (Jul 31, 2006)

Ummahhhh...you said the E word :shock:


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

It has just been bought to my attention that the pied Childrens is actually from Denmark and NOT America just to make a few people feel a bit silly. :lol:


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Damn dutch get all the luck!


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

The Dutch are from Holland, Danes come from Denmark :wink:


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Damn Danes get all the luck!


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## JasonL (Jul 31, 2006)

I have read an article in an old Herpetofauna (AHS journal) of a wild caught adult maccie that was semi "pied". It had about the same amount of white as the one pictured (which also looks like a maccie to me). Not all oddities come from captive bred stock.


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

That is the point, the majority of these oddities are found in wild snakes.


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## cris (Jul 31, 2006)

> That is the point, the majority of these oddities are found in wild snakes.


well we must find them and burn them too or the world will end


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

I quite agree, it's the end of the world as we know it. I feel a song coming on.


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## waruikazi (Jul 31, 2006)

Cris and Boa, you are both being silly now, it will not mean the end of the world. Just the end of our hobby, time to sell everything you have and get out while you still can :roll:


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## junglemad (Jul 31, 2006)

that snake looks ugly.
true's looks good because it has the patterning and coloration all over


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

But they are 2 very different snakes, the one Rob hasn't isn't a Piebald, it's like those BHP's that are around, more like a calico.


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## bOJOjojo (Jul 31, 2006)

I think that the pied ball python is quite pretty, but the children's python is just plain weird. If I owned it, I wouldn't burn it, though. Why would you burn it? I mean, if you had an ugly child, would you burn it? different scenario, I know, but I love my pythons, and I'd never want to hurt any of them. But why would the hobby come to an end anyway? I don't understand


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## Retic (Jul 31, 2006)

I think you might have missed the joke there. 



jOLeen said:


> I think that the pied ball python is quite pretty, but the children's python is just plain weird. If I owned it, I wouldn't burn it, though. Why would you burn it? I mean, if you had an ugly child, would you burn it? different scenario, I know, but I love my pythons, and I'd never want to hurt any of them. But why would the hobby come to an end anyway? I don't understand


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## NoOne (Jul 31, 2006)

If i hatched anything strange out of a clutch i wouldn't euth it. IMO everything that happens with snakes in captivity can happen in the wild. Same with people that feed the snakes alot, the snakes are capable of rapid grow, so it's possible to happen in th wild.
Cross breeding is a different story, yes alot of strange looking snakes are produced but thats why, it's like crossed wires which nature wasn't prepared for.
That can be said for locality crossing the same species or sub species.

Morphs are definatly the way of the futre for reptile keeping anywhere, you only have to look as far as albinos to see that.
To me morph breeding pure snakes (by that i mean not crossing species and sub species) is very interesting and always something that i hope becomes popular.
Whether people thinks it's ugly or not it's different and any new morph will be in high demand.
It's no different to hybrids really some like them some dislike them( i dislike them) they are going to be part of our hobby and are here to stay, so instead o arguing about these things why don't we allow these breeders to go about there business so they won't be scared to make people aware of what they are up to.


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## hazzard (Jul 31, 2006)

Tis is my idea of a mutant. Can you call this a piebald ?:lol: White side up!


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## herptrader (Jul 31, 2006)

cris said:


> well we must find them and burn them too or the world will end



Your world perhaps but not mine... and I am quite happy with mine ;-)


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## hugsta (Jul 31, 2006)

I think we should burn all morphs as well, I mean look at that disgusting bumblebee BHP at the snake ranch, just discusting, and those filthy albino olives, they should have been torched immediately and god forbid, the albino darwins, and people are trying to make a small fortune out of these hideous animals. Shame Shame Shame.

It will be interesting to see how this childrens progresses. I reckon they will look pretty awesome as more and more white appears on it.


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## MrBredli (Jul 31, 2006)

Bumblebee BHP at the snake ranch??


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## CodeRed (Aug 1, 2006)

well thats what John Weigel said at an AHS presentation. He must have bought it


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## kwaka_80 (Aug 10, 2006)

*brings out a shovle and digs up old trash*

i was scouring over google images "pythons" and i found this image


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## Loudenj (Aug 10, 2006)

After reading this thread. I think buring of snakes that are "different" isn't far enough. I say we, humans, have damged ourselfs... tall blonde people aren't breeding with other tall blonde people. People who don't breed with in their genetic pool (eg short people with short people) should be burnt and their off spring burnt as well.

On that note I'm off to burn my self.. mother is 5'1 father is 6'10... I'm an a confused shorty with delusions of height.


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## TrueBlue (Aug 10, 2006)

the bummble bee is still safe and sound in daves and my care, i hear the ranch has one but from what ive been told by people that have seen it, there is no comparison to the original. :wink:


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## rexs1 (Aug 10, 2006)

i dont see why people whine and whinge about people making money from herp.

I dont keep childrens or maccies, but i would love to own that snake.

People are kidding themselves if they think that designer morphs are not the way of the future. We have unlimited bloodlines to breed from and that is the way it will go. 

Some keepers will always have common sp., some will have a few morphs and a few normal snakes, but alot of herpers will only keep designer and rarer reptiles .

I would rather have a black headed like bumble bee that your average nt or qld form.

Any way,

the way i see it is that it will be hard to make a living from reptiles if you dont jump on the designer band wagon in the next few years. 

nick


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## herptrader (Aug 10, 2006)

Just wait until we start using plastic surgery to "enhance" the way our pythons look ;-)


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## Nagraj (Aug 10, 2006)

I suspect most reptile keepers do it for the love of it, not to make a living from it. Not that there's anything wrong with making a living from it if you can.


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## rexs1 (Aug 10, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> the bummble bee is still safe and sound in daves and my care, i hear the ranch has one but from what ive been told by people that have seen it, there is no comparison to the original. :wink:



Thank christ for that rob, i was devod when i read that post. I didn't think that you guys would part with it :lol: 

The ranch has enough lurks and purks of obtaining good herp as it is , we dont need everyone else selling them new morphs.

If its not the orig bumblebee or offspring from it then they shouldnt be calling it bumble bee.

If someone starts or has a new line of reptile, unless its from the same linage they should get another name for it.

 
sigh...........

nick


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## cris (Aug 10, 2006)

> If its not the orig bumblebee or offspring from it then they shouldnt be calling it bumble bee.


lol yeah get an official trademark on a wild animal :lol:


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## rexs1 (Aug 10, 2006)

wild or not i am sure that they could come up with an original name


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## cris (Aug 10, 2006)

Sorry thought it was a joke, my bad. Fair enough i suppose if its a differant morph i havnt seen it.


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## raist (Aug 10, 2006)

Hi Guys,

can someone please tell me what snake ranch is all about please? I've gathered that its a reptile breeding facility set up by John Weigel. I'm just wondering why there is so much 'ill feeling' towards this project and towards John himself. People seem pretty polarised on the subject. :shock: is he a total jerk or what?


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## rexs1 (Aug 16, 2006)

I dont know him from a bar of soap. There is no ill feelings on my behalf towards him, bedford or the ranch. I think that its a great idea.

I just didnt want rob and dave to part with bumblebee to the ranch .

nick


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## MrSpike (Aug 16, 2006)

i know its a stupid question but...

does "the ranch" have a website?

or can someone exlain to me whats happening there with weigel?

and i love that pied childreni and i would own one.


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## raist (Aug 16, 2006)

*snake ranch*

yeah, i'd like to know what the go is with the ranch as well. Can't seem to find out much on the web.. someone here mentioned that it was in nsw but was relocated to queensland. is that right?


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## triptych_angel (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: snake ranch*

What is a bumblebee? any pics? 

Cheers
Emz


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

heres a pic of the bummble bee.


ps, no ill feeling against the ranch here, with out them you wouldnt have acsess to rough scale pythons.


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

another.


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

Rob all I have to say is Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie.


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## snakes4me2 (Aug 16, 2006)

That is one fantastic looking snake TB


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## ashley_morris22 (Aug 16, 2006)

personal i link the python looks crap? its got a crap white spot


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

What ?


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## snakes4me2 (Aug 16, 2006)

ashley_morris22 said:


> personal i link the python looks crap? its got a crap white spot



Try looking at the bottom of page 6 and see if you have the same opinion as me then :wink: .. thats what i was talking about


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## wokka (Aug 16, 2006)

tb whats the history of your bumble bee. Do you know the linage or was it a lucky catch. It seems that if snake ranch have one to its a naturally occurring freak. The question is can it be reliably reproduced or will it just turn up from time to time every 1000 or so offspring?/


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

It was wild caught in WA and as far as I can tell there have been a couple found. Whether the colour is an inheritable triat remains to be seen.


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## Australis (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: snake ranch*



raist said:


> yeah, i'd like to know what the go is with the ranch as well. Can't seem to find out much on the web.. someone here mentioned that it was in nsw but was relocated to queensland. is that right?




Relocated to QLD, seems a bit odd considering high focus on morphs/mutations.



Matt


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: snake ranch*

And the fact that you aren't allowed to breed reptiles as a business in Queensland.



MattQld83 said:


> raist said:
> 
> 
> > yeah, i'd like to know what the go is with the ranch as well. Can't seem to find out much on the web.. someone here mentioned that it was in nsw but was relocated to queensland. is that right?
> ...


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## rexs1 (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: snake ranch*

thats such a rubbish rule i think.

You should be able to breed and sell as a bussiness in qld.

There must be a few rule benders in qld then.......... :lol: :lol: 
nick


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## Retic (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: snake ranch*

It's a ridiculous rule and I think the rule isn't just bent it is twisted until unrecogniseable :wink: 



rexs1 said:


> thats such a rubbish rule i think.
> 
> You should be able to breed and sell as a bussiness in qld.
> 
> ...


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: snake ranch*

Nice...i like it (to me thats all that matters!)

A piebald is an animal, (usually refered to with horse's), that has large white and black patches. The colour of the horse's skin underneath its coat may vary between black (under the black patches of hair) and pink (under the white patches). In horses this is typically a manifestation of the Tobiano gene.

Similar to the skewbald and oddbald, these colours are now no longer in common use in the UK and are more correctly referred to as Coloured. However, the term is still in common parlance in Ireland where piebald horses are popular amongst Irish Travellers. In the U.S., the more common term for this colouring is paint or pinto, with paint referring to a horse with American Quarter Horse breeding and pinto referring to a horse with any other breed, such as a pinto half-Arabian.

Dogs, cats, or pigs may also be piebald. Snakes, especially Ball Pythons, may also exhibit seemingly varying patches of completely pigmentless scales along with patches of pigmented scales.


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