# Will eastern dwarfs breed with northern dwarfs?



## dkir7979 (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi all, just a question thats been on my mind for a while... would a northern dwarf tree frog breed with a eastern dwarf tree frog? thankyou


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 7, 2012)

Genetic similarity comes about by having a common ancestor not so far back. Genetic radiation (the splitting up of that ancestor into different species) comes about by the exposure to each species-to-be to a different set of environmental circumstances that drive natural selection in different directions. The correct term is actually "adaptive radiation". Different sub-groups evolve to adapt to different environmental circumstances. In short, you would actually expect the frog to look different (as a generlisation).

Different frogsin widely separated regions can evolve to occupy somilar ecologicalniches. so a reed dwelling frog in Victoria and a reed dwelling frog in WA can end up looking almost identical. This is known as convergent evolution. However, given the stock from which the two species evolved were far apart terrestrially,they are not likely to be very closely related. So you can end up with two species of frogs that look almost identical but are genetically very unalike.

It's not the looks that count, it's the genes. Check out a phylogenetic chart (diagram showing genetic lineagesI for Oz frogs and that will show you how closely related or otherwise that the two species are. Without seeing one first, my guess would be NO. 

Hope that helps rather than confuses.
Blue


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## JasonL (Nov 8, 2012)

They would however certainly try... the males at least.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 8, 2012)

You're not wrong! There is a photo in the "Reptiles and Frogs in the Bush SW Aus." Bush et al of a male Motorbike Frog (_Litoria moorei_) in amplexus with a Western Banjo Frog (_Limnodynastes dorsalis_).


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## JasonL (Nov 8, 2012)

I have seen plenty of mis matches in the wild, my favourite was a triple decker, two dumerilii at it with a citropa male on top, trying his luck with a vastly different looking Banjo male...


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 10, 2012)

Something says I should refrain from comment on that Jason... ROFL. I do have a photo somwhere of a female Motorbike Frog clasped by two males, one from above and one from below. 

Dkir, I realised I may have given you the wrong idea by excluding all possibilities. If an existing population becomes separated but occupies similar ecological niches, they may become genetically differ enough over time to warrant being an alternative species. The differentiation can begin with a non-representative group being divided off (called the Founder Effect) and then continue with the introduction of different mutations between the separate groups (i.e. random genetic drift). 

Sorry about that.

Blue


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## Renenet (Nov 11, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> The correct term is actually "adaptive radiation".



Yes! I got a multiple choice answer correct in my exam today.


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## CaptainRatbag (Nov 11, 2012)

[HELP][/HELP]


Bluetongue1 said:


> You're not wrong! There is a photo in the "Reptiles and Frogs in the Bush SW Aus." Bush et al of a male Motorbike Frog (_Litoria moorei_) in amplexus with a Western Banjo Frog (_Limnodynastes dorsalis_).



So what was the outcome?? Tadpoles riding harley's whilst playing the theme to 'deliverence'?


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## dkir7979 (Nov 11, 2012)

What depth of water do you guys recoomend for the eastern and northern dwarfs??? still or moving?


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## CaptainRatbag (Nov 11, 2012)

You could prolly ask the same question if you went to the local pub at closing time?:lol:


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