# Hundreds flee from snakes on a train



## News Bot (May 30, 2011)

CHAOS ensued on a packed Vietnamese train when ticket collectors spotted dozens of killer snakes smuggled aboard a passenger car. 












*Published On:* 30-May-11 08:20 PM
*Source:* NewsCore via NEWS.com.au

*Go to Original Article*


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## mad_at_arms (May 30, 2011)

"


> Samual Jackson declined to comment"


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## SnakeyTroy (Jun 3, 2011)

I am always amused by the language used by reporters in news articles regarding snakes or crocodiles. "Killer Snakes"...... "Can kill a human within 30 minutes"
Where do they get this stuff from???


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## moosenoose (Jun 3, 2011)

Just a glimpse from some of the deadlier ones are enough :lol:


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## pythrulz (Jun 3, 2011)

Interesting article snakes on a train should be called


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## longqi (Jun 3, 2011)

One of the biggest problems throughout Asia is lack of knowledge about snakes
Every kid in Australia knows about compression bandages and keeping calm/still
Here a cobra bite can kill you very quickly
Reason
Most treatments include cutting wound open and bleeding it
Several treatments include fast excercise
A witch doctor is easier to find than a Doctor
Anti Venine is in short supply and rarely matches the one required for that particular snake

At the biggest reptile site in Indonesia Snake Bite Kits containing a scalpel and tourniquets etc sell like hot cakes
When I show Compression Bandaging most local people just shake their heads and walk away


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## SnakeyTroy (Jun 3, 2011)

That is scary longqi. 
The hardest thing is getting people to listen and realise that there is a better way.
I have actually been conducting a survey on facebook and I have found so far out of all the people surveyed about 47% do not know the correct first aid for snake bite. This worries me quite a bit.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jun 3, 2011)

> Every kid in Australia knows about compression bandages and keeping calm/still



No they don't...don't know why your so contempt on comparing east verse west. They're completely different like oranges and apples.


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## dihsmaj (Jun 3, 2011)

Snakeluvver2 said:


> No they don't...don't know why your so contempt on comparing east verse west. They're completely different like oranges and apples.


 
Australia isn't west... we're east.


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## longqi (Jun 3, 2011)

I live in Asia and love it to pieces
I would never show any contempt for the people here
They have very few of the advantages we had yet they have survived 

I was simply pointing out why venomous snakes are treated with such fear here
In Australia if you get bitten you wrap up and drive to hospital and if you dont know what snake bit you; I think they hit you with basically all purpose anti venine
In Asia there is no all purpose anti venine because there are so many different varieties/types of venom
Add the fact that hospitals are much fewer and time to walk to help can be many hours and you can begin to understand


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jun 3, 2011)

thats why thousands of people die in asia from the effects of snake bite


BTW there are many asian species you would most certainly NOT use a compression bandage on,

particularly viper species


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jun 3, 2011)

longqi said:


> I live in Asia and love it to pieces
> I would never show any contempt for the people here
> They have very few of the advantages we had yet they have survived
> 
> ...


 
I'd say it goes further than that, 
I didn't say you didn't like Asia, btw. I think it's one of the better places in the world

Plimpy don't be stupid, Australian is a predominately Western Culture.


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## dihsmaj (Jun 3, 2011)

I thought you meant geographically.


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## longqi (Jun 3, 2011)

$NaKe PiMp said:


> thats why thousands of people die in asia from the effects of snake bite
> 
> 
> BTW there are many asian species you would most certainly NOT use a compression bandage on,
> ...



THAT is where the biggest problem lies
There is no one treatment that can be used with any certainty of success
Most people just say A SNAKE BIT ME
No idea of what it was 

One poor bugger died of a Boiga bite
Very low toxicity but they flare their throats when angry
He described'" flared neck" so they topped him off by using cobra anti venine


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## snakeluvver (Jun 3, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> I thought you meant geographically.


 
*Facepalm* 
Itf funny watching the snakeluvvers watch.

I find it funny how scared people were when they werent even on the loose, also i love how the reporter has hyped it up as always with "KILLER SNAKES"


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

SnakeyTroy said:


> I am always amused by the language used by reporters in news articles regarding snakes or crocodiles. "Killer Snakes"...... "Can kill a human within 30 minutes"
> Where do they get this stuff from???


 

Cobras depending on the species can kill a human in 30 minutes...That is an exageration for most types of cobras but not all

As for killer snakes...well different types of cobras are vastly different in terms of toxicity/danger...And they kill tons of people...So


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

longqi said:


> One of the biggest problems throughout Asia is lack of knowledge about snakes
> Every kid in Australia knows about compression bandages and keeping calm/still
> Here a cobra bite can kill you very quickly
> Reason
> ...



That is not true for India/Sri Lanka...Antivenom is in for the most part plentiful supply in both countries...The main problems are A.) Delay in getting to the hospital/ receiving antivenom( Poor quality roads etc, use of witch doctors etc) and the fact that in asia snake venom varies greatly regionally even for the SAME snake...Meaning if you get bitten by a russells viper in western india....You need antivenom from the western indian localities of russells viper...

The biggest problems is like I said antivenom does not reverse already existing damage...Meaning if you are bitten by a snake and don't go to a hospital for awhile you may very well die even if you do recieve antivenom..

Most cobra bites should NOT be bandaged or tourniquet in any way... Many types of Cobras cause necrosis and local effects as bad as a rattlesnake...so to do such a thing would cause horrible local damage....A pressure bandage should be applied to a Krait bite..

If you do pressure bandage a cobra bite it should be extremely LIGHT....Anything that constricts the venoms movement will produce disasterous results...Of course this varies between the different types of cobras.


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

SnakeyTroy said:


> That is scary longqi.
> The hardest thing is getting people to listen and realise that there is a better way.
> I have actually been conducting a survey on facebook and I have found so far out of all the people surveyed about 47% do not know the correct first aid for snake bite. This worries me quite a bit.


 

Their is no "correct aid for snake bite" only correct aid for a particular snake...Using australian techniques on a viper or cobra bite would be disasterous and probably do more harm than good...So teaching the local people these techinques would be the WRONG thing to do.


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

longqi said:


> In Asia there is no all purpose anti venine because there are so many different varieties/types of venom



That is completely untrue...The standard antivenom given in India and Sri Lanka is called the polyvalent antivenom which consists of a combination of antivenoms from the 4 most medically important snakes in the 2 countries( indian cobra, common krait, russells viper, saw scaled viper)..it is both effective and ineffective...Krait bites in general rarely respond to antivenom....Use of a respirator for a Krait is FAR more important than antivenom use...Antivenom is more effective for other snakes but by no means a definite lifsaver...Their have been plenty of people who have gotten antivenom quickly and still died.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jun 4, 2011)




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## Waterrat (Jun 4, 2011)

Her he goes again. 
All you Aussies know nothing, whatever you say is wrong, completely untrue, you shouldn't even comment .... just sit back and listen what the American expert tells you.
That goes for you Bali fella too.


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

Here is a good paper on the types of snake bites you see in Sri Lanka
*

For Russell’s viper* (_D. russelii_) bites (319 cases), local swelling and regional lymphadenopathy developed in 307 (96%) patients. Incoagulable blood (20-minute whole blood clotting test) occurred in 244 (76%). There was persistent bleeding from bite (46%) or venipuncture (38%) sites. Spontaneous bleeding manifested as hematuria (47%), gum bleeding (34%), hematemesis (34%), vaginal or rectal bleeding (2%), and ecchymosis and bruising (11%). Acute renal failure that required peritoneal or hemodialysis developed in 60 (19%) patients. Fifty-seven percent showed neurotoxic signs, 24% showed generalized myalgia, and 2% showed respiratory failure that required mechanical ventilation.


*For hump-nosed pit viper* (_H. hypnale_) (302 cases), 276 (91%) patients had local swelling and 186 (62%) had blistering. Incoagulable blood and spontaneous bleeding occurred in 117 patients (39%). Acute renal failure that required dialysis developed in 30 (10%) patients. None had neurotoxic signs. 
*


For saw-scaled viper* (_E. carinatus_) (1 case), local bleeding, swelling, incoagulable blood, and spontaneous bleeding developed in one patient. He did not develop acute renal failure or neurotoxicity. 
*


For cobra *(_N. naja_) (45 cases), these patients often had severe neurotoxic signs and/or local envenoming (swelling, pain, blistering, necrosis). Local swelling developed in 91% of patients, blistering in 84%, and necrosis in 67%. Thirty-four patients (76%) required wound debridement and 16 (36%) needed skin grafting. Eight (18%) required amputation of limbs, fingers, or toes. Thirty-six (80%) developed neurotoxic signs, of which 35 (78%) had ptosis, 29 (64%) had ophthalmoplegia, 6 (13%) had dysphagia, and 9% had respiratory failure that required mechanical ventilation. No patient developed spontaneous bleeding, incoagulable blood, or acute renal failure. 
*


For common krait* (_B. caeruleus_) (88 cases), symptoms or signs of local envenoming (minimal swelling, pain, paraesthesiae) were recorded in 9% of the patients. Typical neurotoxic signs, such as partial or complete ptosis, external ophthalmoplegia, and difficulty in breathing, which were identical to those observed in cobra bite victims, developed in 84 (95%) patients and respiratory failure that required mechanical ventilation developed in 64%. Abdominal pain and/or vomiting were reported in 80 (91%). No patient had spontaneous bleeding or incoagulable blood. 
*


For sea snake* (_Hydrophis spiralis_) (1 case), one bite victim had no signs of local envenoming. Multiple fang marks were observed at the site of bite. He had severe myalgia, muscle tenderness, and neurotoxic signs but did not develop respiratory failure or acute renal failure. 
* 

For green pit viper* (_Trimeresurus trigonocephalus_) (6 cases), four patients (67%) had local swelling. One complained of abdominal pain and vomiting. None had signs of systemic envenoming.

Syndromic Approach to Treatment of Snake Bite in Sri Lanka Based on Results of a Prospective National Hospital-Based Survey of Patients Envenomed by Identified Snakes


And the scariest thing of that article is that antivenom was used...Like I said it is not the lack of antivenom supplies that is the problem...It is the delay in getting the antivenom and the fact that it does not reverse damage already caused by the venom...and then it also appears to be rather ineffective in dealing with krait bites. Had you just given antivenom to common krait patients....56 of the 88 patients would have died...Luckily ventillators are available in Sri Lanka
*
"Antivenom was used in 77% of bites by Russell’s viper, 78% of bites by cobras, 95% of bites by the common krait, 19% of bites by hump-nosed vipers, and all bites by green pit vipers."*

Syndromic Approach to Treatment of Snake Bite in Sri Lanka Based on Results of a Prospective National Hospital-Based Survey of Patients Envenomed by Identified Snakes


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## snakeluvver (Jun 4, 2011)

I thought there was a system stopping you posting twice in a row, how come mmafan managed to post his stuff no one cares about 4 times in a row?


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Her he goes again.
> All you Aussies know nothing, whatever you say is wrong, completely untrue, you shouldn't even comment .... just sit back and listen what the American expert tells you.
> That goes for you Bali fella too.



Classic Aussie misquote....Go ahead teach the locals to pressure bandage a cobra bite "because of course it works with Australian snakes!" and see how that works for you....



Waterrat said:


> Her he goes again.
> All you Aussies know nothing, .



Well certainly the ones who think the Box Jellyfish is the "worlds most venomous animal" know nothing...


Bali and the entire country of Indonesia barely has any snakebite deaths....So I don't even consider it to be really a point of discussion in this topic...The main countries discussed should be India, Sri Lanka, Burma, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh and maybe the Phillipines....Indonesia does not have many snakebite deaths at all....


And I respect longqis opinion...He is to me one of the most credible posters on here.




​


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## thefridge71 (Jun 4, 2011)

Why are people so unkind.... Can't we all just get alonggg


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

thefridge71 said:


> Why are people so unkind.... Can't we all just get alonggg



I don't think Australians like Americans to much lol


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## thefridge71 (Jun 4, 2011)

mmafan555 said:


> I don't think Australians like Americans to much lol


 
[video=youtube;DJ3RrqBqk14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3RrqBqk14[/video]

A little bit of Australian satire from a few years ago. 

I have no idea why Australians dislike "North Americans" so much. I know a lot from university who are nothing like this.


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## Wally (Jun 4, 2011)

He studies other countries so intensely as doing the same to his own may be slightly confronting.


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## thefridge71 (Jun 4, 2011)

Haha


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## mmafan555 (Jun 4, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> He studies other countries so intensely as doing the same to his own may be slightly confronting.


 

Lol very cute...The real lol of this statement is that I am not and have never even argued anything that has to do with America...I in the past argued Asian animals vs Australian animals....how does me being American have to do with that? It doesn't and its just a cheap way of dismissing my points which have nothing to do with America or anything related to any country being better than another

"Studies other countries"... I am pretty sure my comments were directed at snakes from different continents....not countries..I don't recall ever claiming that America was better/worse/ etc than Australia and in fact I didn't even bring up American animals at all... or that any country was better/worse than any other...So why this fixation on me being American when it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the comments that I have made on this board.

If I wanted to troll Australians and play the ignorant "America is superior card"....I wouldn't be talking about snakes from Asia and Africa lol that would be the absolute last thing I would be talking about...But like I said I don't care about snake on one continent vs snakes from another continent...It is an endless debate that goes nowhere...The only reason I am even discussing it now is because instead of contributing to the discussion a poster decided to complain about America...


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## longqi (Jun 4, 2011)

Cobra venom is mainly neurotoxic
Immobilising the wounded limb is the first consideration if you are more than 30mins from a hospital
Most Asian/African people are more than 30 minutes from hospital
Whether immobilisation is done with splints or light compression bandage it helps either way
40% of bad cobra bites result in death without immobilising
22% with immobilising
Necrosis is better than dying even if it is nasty


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## Wally (Jun 4, 2011)

mmafan555 said:


> Lol very cute...The real lol of this statement is that I am not and have never even argued anything that has to do with America...I in the past argued Asian animals vs Australian animals....how does me being American have to do with that? It doesn't and its just a cheap way of dismissing my points which have nothing to do with America or anything related to any country being better than another
> 
> "Studies other countries"... I am pretty sure my comments were directed at snakes from different continents....not countries..I don't recall ever claiming that America was better/worse/ etc than Australia and in fact I didn't even bring up American animals at all... or that any country was better/worse than any other...So why this fixation on me being American when it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the comments that I have made on this board.
> 
> If I wanted to troll Australians and play the ignorant "America is superior card"....I wouldn't be talking about snakes from Asia and Africa lol that would be the absolute last thing I would be talking about...But like I said I don't care about snake on one continent vs snakes from another continent...It is an endless debate that goes nowhere...The only reason I am even discussing it now is because instead of contributing to the discussion a poster decided to complain about America...


 
Whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## saximus (Jun 4, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I thought there was a system stopping you posting twice in a row, how come mmafan managed to post his stuff no one cares about 4 times in a row?


 In the News section you can post multiple times and it doesn't combine them. Maybe they figured most of the time people wouldn't be posting multiple times in a row in this section


thefridge71 said:


> A little bit of Australian satire from a few years ago.
> 
> I have no idea why Australians dislike "North Americans" so much. I know a lot from university who are nothing like this.


 To be fair I had to Google one or two of these but wow. Just...wow. I agree though, I know heaps of awesome Americans. I guess it's just the stereotype, like we are all stereotyped as a bunch Crocodile Dundee or Steve Irwins
I think MMAFan is probably a pretty smart dude and just likes getting bites from you people now


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## Wally (Jun 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> I think MMAFan is probably a pretty smart dude and just likes getting bites from you people now



If, as you say saximus, that he is an intelligent creature, he'd soon realise that most aren't debating the information he posts.


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## Cockney_Red (Jun 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> In the News section you can post multiple times and it doesn't combine them. Maybe they figured most of the time people wouldn't be posting multiple times in a row in this section
> 
> To be fair I had to Google one or two of these but wow. Just...wow. I agree though, I know heaps of awesome Americans. I guess it's just the stereotype, like we are all stereotyped as a bunch Crocodile Dundee or Steve Irwins
> I think MMAFan is probably a pretty smart dude and just likes getting bites from you people now


Know what you mean Sax....My teeth are all falling out, I use my shower as an enclosure, and I dont stop f###ing whinging......:lol::lol::lol:


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## Cockney_Red (Jun 4, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> If, as you say saximus, that he is an intelligent creature, he'd soon realise that most aren't debating the information he posts.


 
He's standing his ground, and pretty well at that....fair play to the fan


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## Wally (Jun 4, 2011)

My post was about as close to a compliment as I'll give at this stage.


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## mmafan555 (Jun 16, 2011)

longqi said:


> Cobra venom is mainly neurotoxic



No it isn't...Many spitting cobras have no (or almost no) neurotoxic components to their venom..The most common cobra bite in many regions of Africa is the Mozambique Spitter...which is quite cytotoxic and has barely any neurotoxic component...A pressure bandage for a bite from this snake would be ridiculous and do far more damage than good for a bitten person.

Regular( non spitting) cobras have varying degrees of neurotoxicity and cytotoxicity depending on the type of cobra...The Phillipine cobra is extremely neurotoxic and only barely cytotoxic...Therefore it would make sense to use a pressure bandage for a bite...Same applies for a Cape Cobra..The Indian Cobra is also extremely neurotoxic but also can give very bad cytotoxic symptoms in many regions( Like Sri Lanka)..So it really all depends.

Spitting cobra bites should not be immobilized...For non spitting cobras it depends on the cobra...The most diffucult to treat would be for the Indian Cobra as in some regions it is both extremely neurotoxic and also causes horrible tissue damage( Sri Lanka, some parts of India etc).




longqi said:


> Immobilising the wounded limb is the first consideration if you are more than 30mins from a hospital
> Most Asian/African people are more than 30 minutes from hospital



No the first consideration should be trying to identify the type of cobra that bite you...as Cobras more than maybe any other snake have huge variations in venom composition between the species/subspecies etc.

Even through Cobra venom is very fast acting...30 minutes still seems like an unusually fast time for it to progress to complete paralysis( through it can and does happen)..If you are in the phillipines...you should pressure bandage immediately as the cobras their are extremely lethal and neurotoxic and don't usually cause much if any local symptoms..



longqi said:


> Whether immobilisation is done with splints or light compression bandage it helps either way



Not if its a spitter or a type of non spitting cobra that causes severe cytotoxicy...Your views are way overly simplistic on this issue...Cobra venom varies alot in the SAME type of cobra across different regions( ie Indian Cobra from Sri Lanka compared to Indian Cobra in northern India, Nepal etc) let alone different types of cobras.

Like I said it depends on the type of cobra and the local people should be educated on the most common types of cobras that bite and the proper method of first aid for each( as they could be vastly different)



longqi said:


> 40% of bad cobra bites result in death without immobilising
> 22% with immobilising
> Necrosis is better than dying even if it is nasty



For what type of cobra? That is just a general statement ..Spitting Cobras have like a 1-5 percent fatality rate for bites regardless of what you do as their venom pretty much just destroys the area around the bite site but does not cause systemic symptoms or systemic neurotoxicity....For non spitting cobra it varies tremendously between the different types of cobras with some having much higher untreated fatality rates than others....40 percent seems high with medical treatment for even the most venomous types of cobras....Without treatment...their are some types that probably exceed 50 percent and maybe even 60 percent( untreated fatality rate) of course this is talking about actual envenomations...Dry bites I am not including


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## Fuscus (Jun 16, 2011)

SnakeyTroy said:


> I am always amused by the language used by reporters in news articles regarding snakes or crocodiles. "Killer Snakes"...... "Can kill a human within 30 minutes"
> Where do they get this stuff from???


 Standard Jorno stuff, some nouns require certain adjectives, eg a person is never missing in the sea, rather they are missing in shark-invested waters.


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (Jun 16, 2011)

thats some funny ---- !!!


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