# Redback spider bite question...



## Pythoninfinite (Jun 24, 2013)

I had the misfortune to be bitten on the little finger by a redback yesterday, around lunchtime, and by mid-afternoon the pain was so intense I took myself off the the ER at the local hospital (Poisons info told me the pain could last for days, and my finger felt like it was being crushed in a vice!!!). Was given Nurofen, and although I had a restless night, it helped quite a bit.

Now the pain in my finger has subsided quite a bit, but my hand and arm are sweating constantly, and I'm getting sharp pains (maybe 4/10) in my feet...

Has anyone else here had experience with redback bites? How long before these irritating effects go away? This was maybe the most consistently painful thing that's ever happened to me and I don't like it one bit!

Jamie


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## Ambush (Jun 24, 2013)

couple of days// I was violently sick but only a little pain.. drink water and take some Nurofen again.... Or Lots of bourbon.. 
Feel for u


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 24, 2013)

Mmm, I had no nausea, just excruciating pain. They said if I felt nauseous I probably should get antivenom, but it hasn't happened. Wasn't even a big spider!

J


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## andynic07 (Jun 24, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Mmm, I had no nausea, just excruciating pain. They said if I felt nauseous I probably should get antivenom, but it hasn't happened. Wasn't even a big spider!
> 
> J


My mate was bitten by a redback and he too had nausea. He was bitten in the afternoon at work and had a really restless night with sweating and nausea and went to hospital the next day, they said he was over the worst so did not administer any antivenom. He did not mention anything about pain in his feet and was bitten behind the knee. Hope you feel better and are you positive it was a redback?


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## Snowman (Jun 24, 2013)

My father was bitten by a redback some years ago. He said it felt like someone holding a hot soldering iron permanently on his finger where he was bitten. No mention of pain anywhere else. Better to be safe than sorry Jamie. Another trip to the ER or even a GP to see about the referred pain to your feet might be a good idea.


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## Wing_Nut (Jun 24, 2013)

I've had the unfortunate experience of being bitten a few times. I certainly feel for you Jamie, the pain is terrible, and I am glad to hear things are on the improve. The worst of the symptoms were over after 3 days for me however other than sweating and localised pain I didn't experience any other reactions. You may however be experiencing pain in other regions of your body and this is a normal reaction. If you are experiencing pain that you believe is related to the bite occurring in other parts of your body that worsen or symptoms recur/develop then I would suggest seeking medical attention. If analgesics are effective in relieving the localised pain and generally you feel you are improving any negative effects of the envenomation should disappear if due course. Sweating, local pain, malaise are quite normal reactions, however I have never experienced pains in my feet, but venom from the Red Back spider has been known to cause tetany which causes muscle contraction in your abdomen, back and legs. If these symptoms persist, then you will most definitely need further medical treatment. 

I hope you get well soon.

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for that Wing_Nut - gee bitten a few times - it's my intention never to be bitten again!!!

I did go to Port Macquarie Base Hospital yesterday afternoon, and was assessed by the emergency medical staff as being a candidate for antivenom, as the symptoms were becoming generalised and analgesics weren't effective. So I was given an IV infusion of 2 ampoules of antivenom at 5.30, and monitored for 2 hours to ensure no serum reaction, and by 7.30 all symptoms had resolved - no pain or discomfort anywhere - quite remarkable!

My thanks to the staff at Wauchope and PMBH - they were all great! This morning is very different to yesterday morning !

Jamie


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## Bluetongue1 (Jun 25, 2013)

Hi Jamie,

Hey! Really pleased to hear that mate. You had me worried there for a while. Did a little research and was all set to send you the results but could find your email. Then I realised I had not checked the times on the posts. So I thought I’d best do that and was greeted by your good news. I was going to say that despite the occurrence of very few other symptoms it sounded like you were developing a systemic reaction, which may well warrant administration of the antivenom... so take Snowman’s and Wingnut’s advice. Fortunately, no need. 

My Grandpop used to grow plants using fruit and jam tins with the lids cut off. When not in use they sat under the house where they copped the afternoon sun. You could be assured of 20 plus redbacks when it was time to clean them up for use. We used to squish them with our thumbs. I would definitely have to question the wisdom of that technique.

Am really glad you are OK. Hopefully never to be repeated.

Cheers mate,
Mike


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## Norm (Jun 25, 2013)

Just be mindful that you might start climbing vertical walls and develop a craving for flies and other small insects.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 25, 2013)

Norm said:


> Just be mindful that you might start climbing vertical walls and develop a craving for flies and other small insects.



Ha! I think my front teeth are already changing shape and the stripe down my back is going from yellow to red already! It was horse serum, so I'm hoping for a few bits to become more horse-like as well...

J


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## Norm (Jun 25, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Ha! I think my front teeth are already changing shape and the stripe down my back is going from yellow to red already! It was horse serum, so I'm hoping for a few bits to become more horse-like as well...
> 
> J



Just be careful what you wish for!!


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## andynic07 (Jun 25, 2013)

Glad to here that you came good. Just goes to show that you can never be too careful when dealing with venom. While we are on the red back subject I can't really think of the last time that I have seen a red back. I used to see them a lot up until about 10 years ago, I wonder if the Asian house gecko has something to do with that?


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 25, 2013)

Speaking of Asian House Geckos, I was working in a psych practice (as a receptionist!!!) last week in Port Macquarie, and I heard an AHG chirping in the building. The first I've heard down here - does anyone know if they're well established here?

J


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## Skeptic (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't know how well established they are here but I have found one in my house before.


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## BeZaKa (Jun 25, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Glad to here that you came good. Just goes to show that you can never be too careful when dealing with venom. While we are on the red back subject I can't really think of the last time that I have seen a red back. I used to see them a lot up until about 10 years ago, I wonder if the Asian house gecko has something to do with that?



Unfortunately I have recently come across them... fortunately didn't get bitten. Now, where do I get my hands on an Asian house gecko


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## princessparrot (Jun 25, 2013)

I got bitten in yr6 when I was just helping the little kids(kindy, yr1) found it next to the sandpit and one of the curious little kids was going to touch it, so I went to squish it, then it got me..... was rather painful and when I told my teacher she said "it couldn't have been a redback cause if it was id be laying on the ground dead..." lol!!! I did start to feel abit sick later and it did hurt... alot! it was sore for a few days, but I best remember it from what my teacher said!!!! doubt i'll ever forget that!


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## Wild~Touch (Jun 25, 2013)

Norm said:


> Just be careful what you wish for!!



One must be specific when .... wishing/hoping.... as one could end up with the udder of a broodmare


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## Wild~Touch (Jun 25, 2013)

Years ago I was bitten by "something" on the sole of my left foot and I will always remember the fearsome pain....

bite site was horrific....aches all over....sweating....hot rushes/flushes...absolutely R.S. like the flu without breathing difficulties.

Tim Nias thought it was def. a redback spider bite and told me to get to the doctor...asap....LOL 

I am still here thanks to fresh air and faith....next time I won't ride it out

I couldn't wear any type of foot wear for months as my ankle joint took ages to return to normal and stumbled around like peg leg Pete.

If you get bitten by anything just go and get it checked out


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## Dragonwolf (Jun 25, 2013)

In 2001 I was bitten on the left side of my neck by a Redback whose abdomen was half the size of a grain of rice.The initial bite was terrible (7/10) but then the pain spread out - up to the midline of my scalp, forward to my nose and down to mid chest level just on the left side... lasted for 4 days. The pain changed from the initial acute localised pain to a 'burn' over the whole area.
If I had known to apply ice to the bite (not known then) I reckon I could have saved myself the agony. I lived 100+ kms from the nearest medical treatment so just took painkillers and waited it out.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 25, 2013)

Wild~Touch said:


> One must be specific when .... wishing/hoping.... as one could end up with the udder of a broodmare



Eww... I didn't think of that... I hope my serum came from a stallion lol!

The doctors say that the symptons can be almost anything from severe pain to sweating to other wierd pains, and rarely is there any sign of a bite - no red marks, no swelling, nothing... And to think I put it on a stick and took it outside to let it go when I found it... I think a burnoff of the area is in order!

Jamie


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## OldestMagician (Jun 25, 2013)

I was bitten by something when I was cleaning out the garage, never saw what it was but ended up having palpitations for the rest of the day...


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## Dendrobates (Jun 25, 2013)

I was bitten on the back of the head by a redback, the pain was excrutiating and I suffered really bad nausea, sweating, etc. I decided to ride it out but ended up taking myself to the doctors a week later when the bite site just wasn't getting better and was looking a bit infected. Antibiotics fixed it up and after another week it was all fine. Fun fact though - my hair now grows white out of the bite site.


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## andynic07 (Jun 25, 2013)

aspidorhyncha said:


> I was bitten on the back of the head by a redback, the pain was excrutiating and I suffered really bad nausea, sweating, etc. I decided to ride it out but ended up taking myself to the doctors a week later when the bite site just wasn't getting better and was looking a bit infected. Antibiotics fixed it up and after another week it was all fine. Fun fact though - my hair now grows white out of the bite site.


Since you also live in Queensland I was wondering if you had noticed a decline in the redback spider numbers or is it just me?


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## Dendrobates (Jun 25, 2013)

To be honest I don't think I've ever seen a redback on the coast in Queensland! I've seen plenty out west, and it was in NSW where I was bitten. I really can't think if I've ever seen one locally.


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## saintanger (Jun 26, 2013)

my chihuahua who weighs 1kg got bitten on the neck by a red back a few years back, i busted her chasing it and attacking it, trying to bite it ect and took her inside, within 30 min her neck swelled up, she felt really hot, beathing fast and wouldn't move much so i rushed her to the vets they gave her anti biotics and quartazone cream and was sent home to recover, took 2 weeks for the site to heal. this has now happened 3 times in the 9 years i have owned her, the last 2 times i dunno what spider bit her but was the same reaction. she will never learn!


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## Bluetongue1 (Jun 26, 2013)

Norm said:


> Just be mindful that you might start climbing vertical walls and develop a craving for flies and other small insects.


*Norm*, I must admit that the same joke also came immediately to mind when reading that comment.

*Jamie*, an interesting quote from book called The Silken Web: “The absorption of the venom in the lymphatic system can then cause the patient to experience intense pain in the lower limbs. Intense shivering may follow, accompanied by profuse perspiration of the bitten limb while the rest of the body remains dry. This symptom is only seen with the bite from a Red-back Spider.”

AHGs are now included in the literature as established as far south as Port Macquarie. 

Red-backs prefer warm, dry areas and will put up with plenty of light if the other conditions are met. Human habitation suits them well as the electric lights and food scraps also attract their insect prey. Thankfully they are very unaggressive spiders, normally dropping to the ground in a ball if threatened. Bites normally occur when squeezed or rolled against human flesh or brushed with a hand. 

I am truly amazed at the number of people who decided to “ride out” a bite. OK, the venom is very slow acting but spreading symptoms, particularly intense pain, is your body telling you there is something very wrong happening. There have been no fatalities from either Funnel-webs or Red-backs since the introduction of antivenom for each. Bites from Redback are a lot more common, but you still need to bear in mind that Red-backs are responsible for an equal number of recorded fatalities to Funnel-webs. That is a serious track record! Clearly, major symptoms should not be trivialised. 

*Sainthanger*, it would have been a Red-back each time. Apart from the fact that the reaction was identical each time, most bites from Australian spiders produce localised symptoms only. I would have thought more than Cortisone was required to address the venom’s effects. Could be it works differently on dog’s body chemistry.

Blue


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## Skeptic (Jun 26, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> AHGs are now included in the literature as established as far south as Port Macquarie.
> 
> I would have thought more than Cortisone was required to address the venom’s effects. Could be it works differently on dog’s body chemistry.




I remember reading awhile back that AHG's were found in a transport company warehouse in Canberra. Presumably hitching their way south.

It wouldn't surprise me if redback venom worked differently on a dog vs a primate. I know that funnelweb venom has almost no effect on dogs, cats and most mammals for that matter. The fact that humans and other primates are particularly sensitive to one out of the forty odd proteins in funnelweb venom is purely bad luck. We didn't evolve alongside one another and we obviously aren't a significant threat or a food source. However, that one peptide is particularly lethal to insects as well, the spiders main food source.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks Mike, the lower limb thing (sweaty shins(!) and feeling like I was walking on broken glass)) and the shivering while having a normal body temp were what drove me to get further help, and hospital staff immediately said I meet the criteria for antivenom - basically generalised symptoms far from the bite site. It was an easy process, requiring about 15 mins for the IV infusion, and a 2 hour observation period following that to make sure there was no anaphylaxis. After 2 hours I was entirely pain free and all evidence of a problem had vanished before I went to bed that night.

Why would you not seek the quickest way to resolve what can be a problem that can last weeks if not attended to asap?

Jamie


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