# Western Bearded Dragon or baby Eastern?



## Guadalupe (Oct 21, 2012)

I got my son a western bearded dragon last Christmas. Some time in January or February he escaped. There was a bit of skin in the garden, so I assumed the cat got him. 

This afternoon we went outside and there was a lizard identical to him sitting on his old pen. It is very skinny, and made no effort to run away when we picked it up.

The problem is, we have a lot of eastern bearded dragons here and to me the babies look just like western bearded dragons. How do I tell the difference?? Would a baby eastern beardy show aggression or try to run away?


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## Supra_man87 (Oct 21, 2012)

Post some clear pics and I'm sure someone will be able to help you out...


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## Guadalupe (Oct 21, 2012)

Well this is the lizard we lost... http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-lizards-5383/lizard-id-177696/

I will get pics of the lizard we found as soon as the kids finish dinner (I can't get my arm in behind the rock it's hiding behind now)

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I uploaded a pic of the found lizard but can't get it here- can anyone help?


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 22, 2012)

If you were able to approach the lizard and pick it up and it was healthy, it is odds on this is a prevoiusly captive lizard. A totally wild and healthy bearded dragon would not allow you to do that. The differences between the two species involve the size of the beard, the total length (neither of which is useful with sub adults) and the arrangement of spines on the head and neck. I have a set ofdiagrams somewhere so I shall have a look and see if I can get back to you in a day or so.

Blue


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

Western Beardeds have spines arranged in roughly a straight line across the back of the head (so do vitticeps) whereas eastern Beardeds have these scales that are arranged in a backward curving arc. But minor don't have a well developed beard and the spines seem to be around the back edges of the jaw which is not the case with vitticeps and barbara where the spines are found on these areas where minor has them and widespread on the throat (squarish shaped beard in barbata and beard more round in vitticeps which is evident when erect). Both species look more robust than minor.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 22, 2012)

What's the colour of the mouth lining?


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

GeckPhotographer said:


> What's the colour of the mouth lining?



Almost white... Pinkish with yellow around the very edges of his mouth


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 22, 2012)

White. :? Ok that's weird, but even young easterns usually have a yellow interior mouth lining. (Though that can be fuzzy where they overlap with centrals), anyway. I'd say that's more evidence it's a Western not and not an Eastern.


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

GeckPhotographer said:


> White. :? Ok that's weird, but even young easterns usually have a yellow interior mouth lining. (Though that can be fuzzy where they overlap with centrals), anyway. I'd say that's more evidence it's a Western not and not an Eastern.



I edited with more detail. I wish I could figure out how to upload pics. Is there someone I can SMS some to?


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## treeofgreen (Oct 22, 2012)

here is a pic of the found beardie



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2nd pic


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

White is more evidence with minor (although they can have yellow), vitticeps has pink mouth interior and barbata has yellow. Looking at the photo I would say a western but I'm not to great with dragons.


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## Jarrod_H (Oct 22, 2012)

How cool would it be if it is the dragon Guadalupe lost all those months ago. I would be stoked! Fingers crossed for ya


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

Jarrod_H said:


> How cool would it be if it is the dragon Guadalupe lost all those months ago. I would be stoked! Fingers crossed for ya



It would be seriously cool. I'm starting to have doubts though. It's pretty feisty now it's warmed up and he won't feed.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 22, 2012)

I reckon it's and eastern beardy but I'm pretty bad with my dragons too.


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

So it's one all so far  oh the suspense!


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## Jarrod_H (Oct 22, 2012)

Guadalupe said:


> So it's one all so far  oh the suspense!



You won't get any work done today mate, you will be to busy refreshing the page. I know thats what ill be doen Click, click, click.


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

See what bluetongue thinks he would have a good idea.

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Is this a different bearded from the one on this thread http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-lizards-5383/lizard-id-177696/.

The one in the 2 photos posted on this forum could be an eastern beardy. Are the spines on the back of its had in a backward curving arch?


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

vicherps said:


> See what bluetongue thinks he would have a good idea.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



thats what I'm trying to figure out... If the lizard in this thread and the other thread are the same lizard. Yes- he has spines on the back of his head in a backward curving arch.


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

Guadalupe said:


> thats what I'm trying to figure out... If the lizard in this thread and the other thread are the same lizard. Yes- he has spines on the back of his head in a backward curving arch.


Then it is a Eastern Beardy (western beardies cant erect their beards) that person posted photos of on this thread. What about the other thread did that lizard have a spines on the back of it's head that are straight or were they to in a backward curving arch.


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## Echiopsis (Oct 22, 2012)

Animal in the pics doesnt look like minor minor, too much beard. P minor mitchelli have stronger beards and often the paler mouth lining, what did you originally buy?

The fact that you could just pick it up doesnt mean much, most of the minor I see here are easily approached and handled if you feel the need.


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

Echiopsis said:


> Animal in the pics doesnt look like minor minor, too much beard. P minor mitchelli have stronger beards and often the paler mouth lining, what did you originally buy?
> 
> The fact that you could just pick it up doesnt mean much, most of the minor I see here are easily approached and handled if you feel the need.



But minor mitchelli don't have the the backward arch curving spines on the rear of its head the lizard in the pics on this thread is a barbata.


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## Grogshla (Oct 22, 2012)

mate to upload pictures click on go advanced then go to manage attachments.


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## Echiopsis (Oct 22, 2012)

vicherps said:


> But minor mitchelli don't have the the backward arch curving spines on the rear of its head the lizard in the pics on this thread is a barbata.



No arguements here. I have minimal experience with barbata but a lot with minor/ mitchelli. Pilbara mitchelli dont always show a dead straight line of spines at the base of the skull, it can vary into a slight curve.


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

mmk interesting but does it curve to the extent as seen in barbata (some pics on google should show you).


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

vicherps said:


> mmk interesting but does it curve to the extent as seen in barbata (some pics on google should show you).


This is all totally confusing me. In e pics of the original dragon I bought I don't see a line of spikes across the back of his head at all.


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

You told me it does....


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## Guadalupe (Oct 22, 2012)

vicherps said:


> You told me it does....



Ok... The lizard I found has spikes on the back of its head in a curved pattern. I can't look at the lizard I lost (because its lost  ) but in the pics I don't see spikes- are you able to open the thread I referenced in the first post here?


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## vicherps (Oct 22, 2012)

Yeah I can't see any either in the "other" thread but the pics are too far away so I cn see anything in specific detail.


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 23, 2012)

That looks like a _P. barbata _to me. The spines on top of the head are very similar to those of _P. m. minor_. It’s the beard and the spines along the edge of the body that are different. Of course adult P. barbata differ in numerous other ways. If the photo renders its true colours, the black beard that is developing is symptomatic of a male. The black throat is typical and the mouth lining and gums will gradually develop a deep yellow colour to them as it matures.

I should have qualified what I said about picking up wild _P. barbata_. You can get within about two or three metres of an adult and they will bolt off into the undergrowth and suddenly stop. The hatchlings tend to rely more on camouflage. Once they get a bit bigger they too will bolt off but only if there is protective cover to jump into. If they are on an exposed branch with say nothing but dirt underneath, they will tough it out. But if you touch them, they will jump and run. An adult in a tree will move away from you but in my experience they are reluctant to jump.

To not have the animal struggle when picked up is not normal. At the very least you should cop a full display of the beard and I can assure you from experience that they are more than capable of leaving decent scratch marks. I can only wonder if it was still cold and torpid or possibly ill or, as I suggested, previously captive.

Blue


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## Guadalupe (Oct 23, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> That looks like a _P. barbata _to me. The spines on top of the head are very similar to those of _P. m. minor_. It’s the beard and the spines along the edge of the body that are different. Of course adult P. barbata differ in numerous other ways. If the photo renders its true colours, the black beard that is developing is symptomatic of a male. The black throat is typical and the mouth lining and gums will gradually develop a deep yellow colour to them as it matures.
> 
> I should have qualified what I said about picking up wild _P. barbata_. You can get within about two or three metres of an adult and they will bolt off into the undergrowth and suddenly stop. The hatchlings tend to rely more on camouflage. Once they get a bit bigger they too will bolt off but only if there is protective cover to jump into. If they are on an exposed branch with say nothing but dirt underneath, they will tough it out. But if you touch them, they will jump and run. An adult in a tree will move away from you but in my experience they are reluctant to jump.
> 
> ...



Thanks blue tongue. I will release it this morning before it warms up too much. It must have been cold when we first found it, because it definitely lets us know what's what now.


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## eipper (Oct 23, 2012)

Barbata... You east coasters need to get out and Herp more that is a stock standard Barbata sub adult


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