# Jags



## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

i was just wondering who would have a jag if they could purchase one legally since everyone is so against hybrids


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 8, 2007)

I have seen some hot, hot, hot jags out there!! Would love to own one!!
Cheers,
Mell


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 8, 2007)

I'm going with Mell on this one


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

here is a good link if you want to see some

http://www.acreptiles.com


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## maculosis_mandy (Oct 8, 2007)

I wouldnt


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## Tsubakai (Oct 8, 2007)

I hope to stick to locality specific animals as much as possible in the future.


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## AnteUp (Oct 8, 2007)

I would, though i wouldn't breed it. I prefer locality specific but there are some great looking jags.


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## alex_c (Oct 8, 2007)

yes as long as it was sterilised


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## Auzlizardking (Oct 8, 2007)

Again there are Aust bred Jags here and I'd say they will be available this breeding season.
$3000 to $5000 k


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

buck said:


> Since when is a Jag a hybrid? My understanding is that Jags are a genetic morph of Coastals. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong though.
> They are of course exotic though as the morph appeared in overseas collections.



Did you look at that link... some look alittle darwinish others jungle, some diamond ect


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## WombleHerp (Oct 8, 2007)

i'd prefer to see the natural animals, even though others do look great, our natural ones are how they were meant to be. so i chose no


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## Viridae (Oct 8, 2007)

Thought you were talking about the car.


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Viridae said:


> Thought you were talking about the car.



LOL


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## bitey (Oct 8, 2007)

they look great imo


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## alex_c (Oct 8, 2007)

buck said:


> Since when is a Jag a hybrid? My understanding is that Jags are a genetic morph of Coastals. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong though.
> They are of course exotic though as the morph appeared in overseas collections.


 exactly but why i say sterilize them is because you could never be 100% sure of what species are in its genetics if its coming from overseas and its better to be safe than sorry rather than have some thing thats a mixture of different species and subspecies escaping and breeding to create wild hybrids etc imo if all exotics were sterilized before they came to australia they would be fine to keep and there wouldnt be a problem


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## Vat69 (Oct 8, 2007)

I thought there were already jags here being sold under the guise of 'jag looking native carpets'? In that case you can already buy them legally.


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## Colin (Oct 8, 2007)

I agree some pics of jags look absolutely spectacular but have often wondered how many 'average looking' jags are bred in comparison to those much photographed animals.


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

alex_c said:


> exactly but why i say sterilize them is because you could never be 100% sure of what species are in its genetics if its coming from overseas and its better to be safe than sorry rather than have some thing thats a mixture of different species and subspecies escaping and breeding to create wild hybrids etc imo if all exotics were sterilized before they came to australia they would be fine to keep and there wouldnt be a problem



I understand where you are comming from but who do you know that they have been sterilized. It would just open a bigger door to people to get exotics for breeding.... If I was allowed to I would keep alot of exotics sterilized or not sterilized. I know there is no chance of any of my snakes getting out of my snake room.


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Colin said:


> I agree some pics of jags look absolutely spectacular but have often wondered how many 'average looking' jags are bred in comparison to those much photographed animals.



I do agree with you there collin..I havent seen many bad looking jags but i think there would be some.


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Vat69 said:


> I thought there were already jags here being sold under the guise of 'jag looking native carpets'? In that case you can already buy them legally.



There are true jags in australia but alot of the snakes (carpets) i think you are talking about have markings that are jagish but there not jags


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## Miss B (Oct 8, 2007)

What's a Jag? 

(yes I'm serious...)


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Miss B said:


> What's a Jag?
> 
> (yes I'm serious...)



Did you look at the link at the start of the thread


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## Colin (Oct 8, 2007)

buck said:


> You never seem to see the pics of the more drab looking offspring.



Exactly buck :lol: maybe those crackers only come along one in a clutch or two, maybe there's usually a few stunners in a 'usual' clutch ? 

Does anyone actually know this sort of information or any overseas jag breeders? I'd be very interested to know the answer. 

I know the average ones still carry the genetics and may throw some stunners, but maybe those stunner jags are harder to come by and seldom come along. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Colin said:


> Exactly buck :lol: maybe those crackers only come along one in a clutch or two, maybe there's usually a few stunners in a 'usual' clutch ?
> 
> Does anyone actually know this sort of information or any overseas jag breeders? I'd be very interested to know the answer.
> 
> I know the average ones still carry the genetics and may throw some stunners, but maybe those stunner jags are harder to come by and seldom come along. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case



On the link i put on the start of the thread he shows some full clutches. But he also shows one or 2 hachies on other pairings


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## Miss B (Oct 8, 2007)

jay76 said:


> Did you look at the link at the start of the thread


 
Yeah, but it doesn't explain what a Jag is. 

It just says "Morelia spilota mcdowelli'.


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## Neyho (Oct 8, 2007)

Not even if it was in a jar of formalum. Normal locality specific animals for me! :shock:


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## Colin (Oct 8, 2007)

jay76 said:


> There are true jags in australia




can you actually back that claim up at all jay76? Have you actually seen with your own eyes jags here in Australia? 

I'd be interested to know who has 'true jags' here in Australia as don't 'true jags' come from overseas animals?  

and how much do they want for them  Or is it all just uncorroborated 'heresay'? 

I would personally 'assume" that they 'may' be here and being bred but would be interested to know for sure  anyone? :lol:


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## alex_c (Oct 8, 2007)

jay76 said:


> I understand where you are comming from but who do you know that they have been sterilized. It would just open a bigger door to people to get exotics for breeding.... If I was allowed to I would keep alot of exotics sterilized or not sterilized. I know there is no chance of any of my snakes getting out of my snake room.


 basically i guess theyd have a vet check them or do the procedure at quarantine before they are released to their owner.and put in place serious consequences for anyone found in possession of unsterilised specimens. and really why breed them here when if that was done and they were quarantined properly the law could be changed to allow us to import and keep them. and just look at all the exotic morphs in the states already etc. and put in place serious consequences for anyone found in possession of unsterilised specimens. so really if its possible to sterilize them it could work and it would greatly reduce any environmental impact from them


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## peterjohnson64 (Oct 8, 2007)

Miss B, your questions is a good one because as you can see there is speculation as to whether a "jag" is a morph of a particular sub species of Morelia Spilota or a blended set of DNA from generations of putting little bits of each sub species into another one. And I guess thats the scary thing about buying them as a morph of a particular sub species.

So to answer your question. Apparently, it is a spectacular looking morph of the coastall carpet python (just like an albino or striped or hypo coastal would be). But as Buck said, in theory you could also get a Jag Darwin or Jungle. 

And maybe only a few of each clutch is a spectacular python. One might wonder what would happen to the rest of the clutch.

I guess this is what happens when you have an animal in captivity for many generations. Just look at Canis Lupus after thousands of years. And did anyone ever see the experiment done on the foxes in Russia. Where they only let the tamest ones survive and killed off the wild ones. They became tamer but also started deforming in a way that would turn a wolf (canis lupus) into a cocker spaniel (canis lupus familiaris). Maybe that is what is happening with our snakes?????


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

Colin said:


> can you actually back that claim up at all jay76? Have you actually seen with your own eyes jags here in Australia?
> 
> I'd be interested to know who has 'true jags' here in Australia as don't 'true jags' come from overseas animals?
> 
> ...



yes they are here in australia


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## Miss B (Oct 8, 2007)

peterjohnson64 said:


> Miss B, your questions is a good one because as you can see there is speculation as to whether a "jag" is a morph of a particular sub species of Morelia Spilota or a blended set of DNA from generations of putting little bits of each sub species into another one. And I guess thats the scary thing about buying them as a morph of a particular sub species.
> 
> So to answer your question. Apparently, it is a spectacular looking morph of the coastall carpet python (just like an albino or striped or hypo coastal would be). But as Buck said, in theory you could also get a Jag Darwin or Jungle.


 
Oh ok ... thanks Peter. I just thought they were a sort of fancy looking Jungle python :shock:


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

alex_c said:


> basically i guess theyd have a vet check them or do the procedure at quarantine before they are released to their owner.and put in place serious consequences for anyone found in possession of unsterilised specimens. and really why breed them here when if that was done and they were quarantined properly the law could be changed to allow us to import and keep them. and just look at all the exotic morphs in the states already etc. and put in place serious consequences for anyone found in possession of unsterilised specimens. so really if its possible to sterilize them it could work and it would greatly reduce any environmental impact from them



ok well than it would only be a matter of what price it would be to get unsterilised ones through quarantine same as all other animals eg fish


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## Colin (Oct 8, 2007)

Miss B said:


> What's a Jag?
> 
> (yes I'm serious...)



http://www.reptilicusreptiles.net/htm2/pythons_jaguar.htm



> The Jaguar is a rare genetic mutation that originates, oddly enough, from the Coastal Carpet Python. A private breeder from Norway produced the very first Jaguar back in 1994 while breeding a pair of seemingly normal mcdowelli together. This new trait was proven to be genetic in 1994. From that point forward, the Jaguar has generally been assumed to be of a co-dominant nature. This is because when a Jaguar is bred to normal unrelated mcdowelli, they produce an average of 50% true Jaguars and 50% "normal" appearing siblings per clutch. However, considering the complexity and extreme variability of this morph, we believe the Jaguar to be of a multi-genetic nature (capable of passing on a number of different aberrant genes).


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## Miss B (Oct 8, 2007)

So the morph occurred overseas, which is why we don't have them here in Aus...?

Or if we do have them, they were illegally imported...?

And are the Jag's pure Coastal Carpets or have they been hybridized with other subspecies?

(so many questions I know )


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 8, 2007)

Some Jags are hybrids.... Jungle Jags, Jungle x Diamond Jags etc etc...

But yes there are PURE Coastal Jags.... if they originally came from our animals I don't see why we can't have them here.... can someone enlighten me???


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## steve6610 (Oct 8, 2007)

hmmmmm jags....................yes please..................... 

not sure if they are here yet, but i'm sure we have all heard the rumours, i mean really, if they can get boa's into australia, why not a jag..............


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## alex_c (Oct 8, 2007)

jay76 said:


> ok well than it would only be a matter of what price it would be to get unsterilised ones through quarantine same as all other animals eg fish


 or how much free porn you gave them lol did ya hear about this?a heap of them got busted with porn on their work computers and got fired :lol:


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## waruikazi (Oct 8, 2007)

Auzlizardking said:


> Again there are Aust bred Jags here and I'd say they will be available this breeding season.
> $3000 to $5000 k



Again be very very careful about labelling a snake with a funky pattern a jag. A jag is a het for leucistic carpet python. Not a snake that has a pattern similar to a jag that someone puts a huge price on.


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## jay76 (Oct 8, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Again be very very careful about labelling a snake with a funky pattern a jag. A jag is a het for leucistic carpet python. Not a snake that has a pattern similar to a jag that someone puts a huge price on.



This was a point i made before. Many snakes have the looks of a jag but arent.


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## cris (Oct 8, 2007)

As if there wouldnt already be jags here in australia, ppl will just be waiting until they think its ok to start selling them publicly IMO. I really dont get why someppl dont just paint there snakes or colour them with food dye or something


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## method (Oct 8, 2007)

I want a jag, sumone sell me a (legal) jag?


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## Colin (Oct 9, 2007)

Miss B said:


> So the morph occurred overseas, which is why we don't have them here in Aus...?
> 
> Or if we do have them, they were illegally imported...?




If they are here they have been illegally imported.


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## indicus (Oct 9, 2007)

Colin said:


> If they are here they have been illegally imported.



I think you'll find that is the case Colin....
I'm suprised how many would want one; if were legal to do so...
Just food for thought...keep in mind the government in it's infinite wisdom; also allowed the importation of Cane Toads etc etc....lets not over look other imports into the country; such as Lantana, Prickly Pear etc 
Given sometime i'm sure you'll be able to add quite a few plant and wildlife species that have help change the Australian landscape for the better good  I feel we have so, so many locality morph's that are needing attention...Better still, these are genuine natives; not maybe's. Either way it's to late IMO.... each to their own


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## Colin (Oct 9, 2007)

Everyone always wants what they can't have or what's 'flavour of the month' Tremain


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## cmclean (Oct 9, 2007)

i prefer his Trempers (raptor leopard geckos). I am a sucker for a leopard gecko... I wont be a hypocryte and say that I wouldn't have one if legal, cause I would have an even dozen at least if I could get them here.. if given the opportunity.... I think the geckos have a lot more diversity than a snake when it comes to morphing.


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