# breeding rats



## Se/2aph (Mar 10, 2007)

if i was to breed rats to feed my coastals is there a way im supposed to put to sleep the pinkies, or do i just bag em and freeze em?


----------



## mitchdiamond (Mar 10, 2007)

Co2 gas works best.There was a thread about making one some where.


----------



## mitchdiamond (Mar 10, 2007)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=39533&highlight=Co2+gas+chamber 
Here it is.


----------



## Se/2aph (Mar 10, 2007)

thnx mitch!!


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

ONly problem with CO2 is that you need alot of rats to make it economically viable because dry ice can be quite expensive. I spoke to a vet who said the next most humane way was to put them in a container with some tissue paper and just put them in the freezer. They just curl up with each other, get comfortable and go to sleep apparently.


----------



## Se/2aph (Mar 10, 2007)

thats wot i was originally gunna do but wanted other opinions b4 i start breedin them.

do they need to be in a certain temp environment to breed? i was gunna keep them in a cupboard in my garage.


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

Nah i just keep my trio in my laundry. Don't know what the temps would be, prolly between 26 and 30 at times. But i do keep a fan on them continuously so they don't get too hot.


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

I dont agree with the freezer method.... very painfull..... 

Should use a Co2 Chamber or just bang them on the head..... give them the quickest, most painless death possible i reckon.... poor bloody things.

Here is my Co2 setup, Its a old Soda Stream i got from the Op-shop for $5, then bought a Co2 Bottle from Kmart for $45. (you get refills for $11 on a swap and go system) 

Very simple but effective.... I havent used all my first Co2 Bottle yet, so they would last 6-12months i spose, depending on how often you use it.

Here is a picture, if anyone needs more info, PM me.


----------



## mitchdiamond (Mar 10, 2007)

That looks like a good set-up Bonustokin.


----------



## cris (Mar 10, 2007)

Se/2aph said:


> if i was to breed rats to feed my coastals is there a way im supposed to put to sleep the pinkies, or do i just bag em and freeze em?



For pinkies the best way it to hit their head with another object or to break their necks by pressing at the base of their head. CO2 doesnt work well at all for pinkies because they dont need to breathe often.


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

ah yea, ok.... i forgot we were talking about pinkies..... 
Your dead right about that cris. Glad you pointed that out, hahahahaha.


----------



## Se/2aph (Mar 10, 2007)

wot wud i hit them with? thumb, fist, hard book, small hammer??


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

I don't like to hit pinkies because it usually takes three or four goes before it actually kills them. Just seems to be because their bones are so soft they kind of bouce back. Freezing them like i said seems to be the most humane method.


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

Se/2aph said:


> wot wud i hit them with? thumb, fist, hard book, small hammer??


you grab them by the tail and bang there head on a brick or something, as hard as you can. 



> I don't like to hit pinkies because it usually takes three or four goes before it actually kills them. Just seems to be because their bones are so soft they kind of bouce back.



That is true, but the first "hit" will knock them out, so they dont feel the 3 more bangs after that.
Freezing is wrong IMO. im a person who looks at every animal equaly when euthanasing and i beleive that getting frozen to death would be most unpleasant.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

hmmm i remember getting the flame of a lifetime last year for addmitting that i freeze my rats
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

> well ya'll gotta remember they are just food!!


Not until they are dead. Until that, they are a live animal. Freezing them takes hours to die, while Co2 or banging them is quick and saves any UN-NESSESARY suffering of the animal.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

i use to freeze my rats until i learnt that this was wrong, now i smack em on the head and bag em and freeze em. much more pleasent.


----------



## Thor1 (Mar 10, 2007)

cant they be left in the garage with the car running?


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

They die in the freezer very quickly. It was a vet who told me it was a humane way to do it so as far as i'm concerned there is no problem with freezing them.

And as for grabbing their tails and whacking them as hard as you can onto some object... when was the last time you tried to do this? Their tails are so small it's hard enough to hold them using a pair of tongs! Killing them this way or trying to kill them this way will result in a tail-less pinky flying across the room still alive.


----------



## cris (Mar 10, 2007)

Apparently with pinkies up to 6 days old hypothermia is an effective means of anesthesia, even for surgery. So it would seem it would be perfectly humane to freeze young pinkies.

Not sure what happens after 6 six days but it is then considered not acceptable.


----------



## Magpie (Mar 10, 2007)

Easy way to kill pinkies is just to push down hard on their neck with a pen or screwdriver or similar.


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

I beleave there is still brain activity after 18hrs in the freezer, a VET told me. :lol:


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

What's your point? I think you will find there is alot of brain activity ofter donging both adult and pinky rats on the head. That doesn't mean they aren't dead.


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

> I think you will find there is alot of brain activity ofter donging both adult and pinky rats on the head.


Not after 18 hours......


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

My point being get a new VET buddy. Your full of yourself!


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

Bonustokin said:


> Not after 18 hours......



So you are saying they are still alive if they still have been frozen for 18 hours and feeling pain? Something weighing in at maybe 5 grams will be a solid block after 18 hours in the freezer.

If you don't agree with euthenasing them this way then don't do it no one is forcing you to. You may even take a further step and not buy any pinkies that have been killed this way. It's your perogative.


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *well ya'll gotta remember they are just food!! If you think freezing rats is inhumane, then dont feed your snakes at all, coz either way its in humane for the animal thats getting eaten!! *


I strongly disagree. Eating meat, no matter which creature is doing the eating, is not inhumane. But the way an animal is kept and killed may be. We happily eat sheep and cows, but become furious to see them suffering in countries overseas where they have been shipped for the exact same purpose. I would not eat foi gras or veal calf. I do not eat the eggs of battery hens. And while I do not expressly object to the consuming of dogs in some cultures, I am abhored by the idea of beating them to death in order to eat them.

Yes, I hold freezing rats to kill them to be inhumane. However my pythons do not starve because fortunately there are a variety of other ways to kill a rat which are vastly kinder than freezing it!

I agree with Bonustokin. Rats deserve consideration for how they live AND DIE as much as any other creature.


----------



## waruikazi (Mar 10, 2007)

MDPython said:


> My point being get a new VET buddy. Your full of yourself!



So i'm full of myself for sharing the way i kill my pinky rats? And then justifying my decision?


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

It is not many people these days who would disagree with the notion that gassing an animal or knocking it over the head to kill it is as cruel a way to bring about its demise as freezing it. 

If the only method of killing rats for my pythons to eat was to freeze them then I would not keep pythons.

I agree with you that killing something isn't "nice" but there are ways of doing it which cause much less suffering than some other ways.


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

> I agree with you that killing something isn't "nice" but there are ways of doing it which cause much less suffering than some other ways.



Took the words straight from my mouth.


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

If you would care to focus a little closer on what I am actually saying then you would not go offcourse quite so much!  It does not disturb me that rats are bred solely for the purpose of being fed to snakes. It disturbs me that people use some methods of killing them which are generally believed to be much more unpleasant for the animal than some other methods. 

I have no doubt that I am going to die some day. I would prefer to pass away peacefully in my sleep than be bashed to death, or burned to death in a horrible house fire, or mauled to death by a wild boar. I extend the same consideration of the least unpleasant death possible to all creatures whose death I have the responsibility of.


----------



## Australis (Mar 10, 2007)

Here is a picture of a rat who was alivei na freezer for 13 years!!!


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> So i'm full of myself for sharing the way i kill my pinky rats? And then justifying my decision?



IMO Yep :lol: The Frezer is not a humane way.

Just ignore me mate im having a bad day.


----------



## craig.a.c (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *Also give your coastals a livey every now and then! they love it!!*




Also a great way for your snake to get injured or worse from being bitten/attacked. Great advice. How long have you been keeping snakes??????


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> Id rather just chuck it in live and let nature take its course, as thats what snakes so out in the wild...[/COLOR]


----------



## OdessaStud (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote::: Python Gal ,,I've been breeding my rats for over a year, and i always use the same method. 
Also give your coastals a livey every now and then! they love it!! It'll save you having to freeze it!! :-D
Another so called expert giving bad advise to new owners, twelve months pftt you know nothing about culling rodents especially if you feed live to your snakes.JMO
Odie


----------



## Desert Dweller (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> there are a variety of other ways to kill a rat which are vastly kinder than freezing it!
> 
> Well please inform us of how you kill your rats for your snakes?? Knocking it over the head, isnt nice! Co2 may kill them quicker, but thats not nice either. Id rather just chuck it in live and let nature take its course, as thats what snakes so out in the wild...


 
dislocating its neck is the quickest way hold it in your hand and push in and up with your thumb on back of neck., also on your licence conditions it states: 
"no *live* vertebrate animals are to be used as food for pet herpetofauna held under this licence"

not saying don't but just becareful who you say this to as it can become a reason to have your licence cancelled.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

Origanally Posted by *Python Gal *Just freeze the pinkies, they fall asleep in the freezer. Coz they are so little they dont suffer, the faster they breathe the quicker they fall saleep. I've been breeding my rats for over a year, and i always use the same method. Just turn your freezer right up to its coldest temp and leave them over night (dont open the freezer at all). *Mine don't get 5 star care, but they get enough to keep them happy and healthy. *

Origanally Posted by *Python Gal *If you really feel for the rats, then you shouldnt keep animals that eat them!!* I take care of mine, **and they are given the best life* (while they are alive) but i only have them for one reason, and that is FOOD!! Just like we eat cows, sheep and animals like that. Coz we have arms and legs we are able to kill, cook, and eat with a knife and fork. I dont see how its "inhumane" in the different ways peeple kill them....

PYTHON GAL:
in one post you have stated that your rats dont get 5 star treatment, yet, in another post you have stated that they are given the best of life. breeding rats for over a year doesnt make you a proffesor in the rat breeding industry, i hav been breeding rats for over 4 years, and i sure as hell dont think i am qualified to make many statements regarding the quality of rats. however, you seem to be blind to the fact that what your doing is in fact illegal and wrong and VERY inhumane.... you are making it very obvious to the rest of us that you are young and shouldnt really be allowed to keep snakes as u dont understand the concept of feeding them. 
regards
melissa
__________________


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

origanlly posted by *Python Gal*

Well please inform us of how you kill your rats for your snakes?? Knocking it over the head, isnt nice! Co2 may kill them quicker, but thats not nice either. Id rather just chuck it in live and let nature take its course, as thats what snakes so out in the wild...[/QUOTE]

what a load of crap, your now saying that you only feed live if they are off there food...yet, you have said in your previous post that you prefer to "chuck them in live and let nature take its course, cause thats what snakes do in the wild"
my only advice to you is sell your snakes and dont keep animals.


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

Freezing is cruel and totally uneccessary.Feeding live is asking for trouble as well as being cruel (and dont give me any BS about it being natural etc as in the confines of an enclosure its far from it).Some people have absolutely no idea whatsoever and should research more in the first place.Then there are some who are just plain ignorant and should be limited to keeping pet rocks.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> Freezing is cruel and totally uneccessary.Feeding live is asking for trouble as well as being cruel (and dont give me any BS about it being natural etc as in the confines of an enclosure its far from it).Some people have absolutely no idea whatsoever and should research more in the first place.Then there are some who are just plain ignorant and should be limited to keeping pet rocks.



agreed 100 % with you on the pet rocks 
 mel


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

Pet rocks.nuff said


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *well that isnt very good advice. Who are you to give advice?? Yer im not saying i didnt say that. And im sure that you have done it once in your herp time, whether it be to get a hatchie to eat???? Even when i do throw a livey in, its much smaller than the snake and CAN NOT hurt the snake at all. A live rat awakens their senses, you must not know this, but yet here you are giving me advice??????*



HAHAHAHAHAHA a live rat awakens there senses and i musnt know this. oh my god. i hav been keeping snakes and other various reptiles for almost 7 years. so pls dont tell me i dont know things. but, i dont need to say anymore on the matter, as everyone on this site will agree with me, that live feeding and freezing is CRUEL and INHUMANE and IMMATURE ... grow up.


----------



## Adam (Mar 10, 2007)

Pfffffffffffttttttttttttt


----------



## Recharge (Mar 10, 2007)

i agree with mel


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

melgalea said:


> origanlly posted by *Python Gal*
> 
> Well please inform us of how you kill your rats for your snakes?? Knocking it over the head, isnt nice! Co2 may kill them quicker, but thats not nice either. Id rather just chuck it in live and let nature take its course, as thats what snakes so out in the wild...


 
what a load of crap, your now saying that you only feed live if they are off there food...yet, you have said in your previous post that you prefer to "chuck them in live and let nature take its course, cause thats what snakes do in the wild"
my only advice to you is sell your snakes and dont keep animals.[/quote]

Mel, I think that's a bit harsh. I personally know pythongal and I know she takes extreame pride in her snakes and they are given the best treatment and care. It's easy to make judgement of people on a forum, but without knowing the person or seeing her snakes in person it's not right to make such a harsh judgement. She does not feed her snakes live rats all the time, I know this as I purchase my frozen rats with her. I'm sure even yourself have made mistakes in the past and this being a forum everyone weather very experienced or nowing nothing will answer to posts, it's up to the person asking the quesiton to choose what sounds right. I know plenty of breeders that breed rats that just freeze them but u would never no cause they will never tell u. Not saying anything about it being wrong or right just pointing out a relevant issue. And lets' face it as much as we would like to belive every herp owner is a saint they are far from this, not saying that anything on this thread is right or wrong but just pointing out that people will only tell u what u want to hear, not what they actually do. And congradulations to the people who have never lied.


----------



## shellshock (Mar 10, 2007)

without sounding like a fool .... I have read that with cane toads you should put them in the fridge over night, this puts them in a sort of coma, and then in the morning put them in the freezer. Could the same be used with rats etc?? or are they two different things completely.


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *A live rat awakens their senses, you must not know this, but yet here you are giving me advice??????*


Sometimes I catch a crimson rosella or rainbow lorrikeet and shut it up in a small room with my cat. She enjoys the feeling of alertness that it inspires in her. Or I bring home a lamb for my rottweilerXbullpigwolfmastiff to chase and savage. He loves it. It really hones his hunt instinct, which he needs to enable him to eat his dinner from a dog bowl.


----------



## DameJacquie (Mar 10, 2007)

GreenWillow said:


> Sometimes I catch a crimson rosella or rainbow lorrikeet and shut it up in a small room with my cat. She enjoys the feeling of alertness that it inspires in her. Or I bring home a lamb for my rottweilerXbullpigwolfmastiff to chase and savage. He loves it. It really hones his hunt instinct, which he needs to enable him to eat his dinner from a dog bowl.



LMAO GW, yet again you show your sharp wit! Love it!!!!


----------



## shellshock (Mar 10, 2007)

I have to sat that I think they are being a bit hard on you Pythongal ...


----------



## Aslan (Mar 10, 2007)

The same people who tell that animal it is going to live in a cage...


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *thats pretty funny GreenWillow!!! I'm not here to make enemies, but on here you are judged before you even get a chance to speak...*


Thanks  

And I think you have actually been judged because you do something which a lot of other people on here feel very strongly about. Whether out of ignorance, laziness or sheer lack of empathy you indulge in a practice which most of us know to be cruel and totally unnecessary. Others before you have also done the same thing, but upon learning that it causes unnecessary suffering, cease doing it. 

There is nothing wrong with making a mistake. There IS something wrong with stubbornly defending a position that is indefensable, especially when it causes suffering for an animal. Most of us on here do not want ANY animal to suffer, no matter what that animal is. And yes, we stand in judgement on people who indulge in cruel practices, no matter WHAT they are doing it for.

You kill cane toads? Great. You do it in a slow and painful way? Shame on you.

You feed rats to your pythons? Well, naturally! You put these rats in the freezer to kill them? Shame on you.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

i wish i had your brain GW. 
mel


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *I said nohing about kane toads . And I understand the whole debate about what's cruel and what's not. I'm not saying everyone should throw out there defrosted rats and start feeding there snakes live. All I'm saying is I have a snake that has made her choice on what she wants and other than starving her (which I would call cruel) I give her live when she won't eat. Which is recomended if necessary*



so u give her live....what happens when this snake becomes fully grown, you gonna be throwing live adult rats into the enclosure....... a adult rat will do alot of damage to your snake, plus it would be a very cruel death for the rat.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

melgalea said:


> so u give her live....what happens when this snake becomes fully grown, you gonna be throwing live adult rats into the enclosure....... a adult rat will do alot of damage to your snake, plus it would be a very cruel death for the rat.


 
Just because a snake is large, dosn't mean u have to feed it a large adult rat. U can feed them a couple of mediums which is much more healthy for the snake.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

allana1313 said:


> Just because a snake is large, dosn't mean u have to feed it a large adult rat. U can feed them a couple of mediums which is much more healthy for the snake.



sure, lets all promote live feeding.... 
instead of having 1 poor rat be eaten to death whilst alive...lets add 2 to the picture....honestly


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

allana1313 said:


> Just because a snake is large, dosn't mean u have to feed it a large adult rat. U can feed them a couple of mediums which is much more healthy for the snake.


 
or just give it 50 pinkys every week, coz theyre harmless :\


----------



## DameJacquie (Mar 10, 2007)

So pythongal, does the snake eat frozen sometimes?


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

do you have to type in massive fluoro pink?


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *I said nohing about kane toads . And I understand the whole debate about what's cruel and what's not. I'm not saying everyone should throw out there defrosted rats and start feeding there snakes live. All I'm saying is I have a snake that has made her choice on what she wants and other than starving her (which I would call cruel) I give her live when she won't eat. Which is recomended if necessary*


I realise you said nothing about cane toads. I was merely using them as an example to illustrate my point. This is what people do during discussions/debates.

Further, I'm not sure you DO understand the debate about what is cruel and what is not, as a little earlier on in the debate you were advocating putting rats into the freezer to kill them, indicating that you thought this was as fine a way to kill them as hitting their head against a hard surface or gassing them. Perhaps you have forgotten that we were discussing this matter, in which case, it is fortunate that atleast one of us keeping track of the discussion. 

Feeding live, that is a second debate entirely, and one I am not going to get into with you as the details changed as they emerged... you feed live to your snakes because they like it and it keeps them alert? You only feed live when a particular snake refuses to eat? I am not sure what the real story is.


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal can you turn your pink letters off. Its driving me crazy!(hurtin my eyes)
Im having enough trouble trying to make sence of your posts.

Cheers


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

melgalea said:


> sure, lets all promote live feeding....
> instead of having 1 poor rat be eaten to death whilst alive...lets add 2 to the picture....honestly


 
 I"m not promoting eating live food. I'm also not promoting a snake starving.


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal;772751 so she wants live said:


> [/B]



You cant tell the diffrence :shock: That explains everything:lol: 

I HATE PINK:evil:


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

owie my eyes are bleeding *crys*


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *ok then is this colour better?*



Thankyou


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *ok then is this colour better?*


whats wrong with normal small unbolded black?


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

ok. good now??


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

or green, green is always good. ya cant beat green.


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> ok. good now??


well i can say you are making some major improvements! just not fully there.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

Whatever freddy, your account has been deleted. So stay outta this!!!


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> Whatever freddy, your account has been deleted. So stay outta this!!!


what? serious? since when?:? are you sure? what does it say?


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

so now you your being nice to me??? dunno if i should tell you now.... But i wont lower my standards, im not like that. It says below your name Account Deleted. serious! You should know by now that i am HONEST, look where that has got me...


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

87 posts = newbie = doesnt realise u can write what ya want beneath ure name when ya subscribe


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Yep sure is hard to find an HONEST girl these days....


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

didnt know i could do that!! thanks for sharing... How do i do that??


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

I hope your not being a smart "allec" MDPython??? Coz i am HONEST!!


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

I was always told as a child "honesty is the best policy", but if that gets you into trouble, maybe i should start lying?? hmmm.....


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

*'yeah honesty doesnt sit so well around here when you say your a <deleted> rat <deleted>'*
*now my point> you see how annoying that writing was?*


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

but then if u lied and told us u lied that would be a lie and there fore u would have to tell the truth which means it wasnt a lie which means u lied when ya told us u lied which means u were lying


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

yer, but i can live with that... im gunna have to if i keep posting on here. It doesnt worry me either way!!! sticks n stones...


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

that was tricky!! i like it!! But no "honesty is the best policy" (except on here)


----------



## Bug collector (Mar 10, 2007)

**prods Python Gal with a carrot**


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

WHAT THE....???


----------



## Greebo (Mar 10, 2007)

freddy said:


> *'yeah cruelty doesnt sit so well around here when you say your a <deleted> rat <deleted>'*
> ]



Quote modified to be more appropriate


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

i hav given up on this thread, its useless trying to give advice to someone who "obviously" knows it all...


----------



## freddy (Mar 10, 2007)

Greebo said:


> Quote modified to be more appropriate


oh i did try greebs, soz :cry:


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

melgalea said:


> i hav given up on this thread, its useless trying to give advice to someone who "obviously" knows it all...


 
like i said STICKS AND STONES (I DONT CARE)!!! Yep ima know it all, didnt you know that melgalea???  You must bow down to me!!!  Get over yourself!!! :?


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*If you remember this was about someone asking what to do about breeding rats. I answered, then the thread was totally off the subject of what this person was asking.*


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> I hope your not being a smart "allec" MDPython??? Coz i am HONEST!!



I wasnt being smart??? 

You really seem like a VERY HONEST girl.


----------



## Australis (Mar 10, 2007)

Geeez, CAT FIGHT!!


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

HEY RAT KILLER !!! what ya up to tommorow lol


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

SORRY MDPython. i was just making sure. Dont know what to believe, all the "dishonesty" and "allegations" going around... Hey allana!! I'll probably just freeze some more rats....


----------



## MDPython (Mar 10, 2007)

Thats cool, yep it gets a bit ruff around here, but just keep in mind that old saying Sticks & Stones, i prefer Water off a ducks back...


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

Yer i know, i kinda gathered that!!! I like the water off a ducks back better!!! i wont lose sleep over it!!!


----------



## rumfreak (Mar 10, 2007)

weather you knock them on the head freeze or gas, the end result is still the same, your pet has to be fed!!


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> "Further, I'm not sure you DO understand the debate about what is cruel and what is not, as a little earlier on in the debate you were advocating putting rats into the freezer to kill them"
> 
> *Maybe if you had of read earlier on you would have seen that i only freeze PINKIES, not fully grown rats (not that i am condoning freezing, geez, where has that got me). I dont think its fine, but its the way i have been shown to do it, so i do it.*


 Oh _please_, Python_gal. If I could be bothered I would go back to your posts, quote sections and demonstrate exactly where and how you were indicating in no uncertain terms that you kill *adult* rats by putting them into the freezer. However, I have better things to do. Further, it would be unfair to you as we are clearly unmatched as debate opponents. (Thought I'd try a bit of that honesty myself!  )


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*Finally!! some one who see's it the same way as i do!!!*


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

hmmm what gets me is it's bad to kill a rat by freezing, drowning etc etc. Yet it's ok for us to set out rat bate that kills them slowly and they suffer, put out rat traps that smash them and god only knows what else yet it's not ok to kill them any other way then gassing or snapping there necks . Yet what makes me laugh is if you had a room full of people that say killing rats for food in a manner other than CO2 etc is bad and had a heap of rats running around them they would be screeming to get them lol, yet while there in a cage and look all cute and cuddly you don't wanna hurt them. I think if u can't handle the fact that there are going to be snakes that on the odd occasion need live food then don't own them, there not a pet dog or cat.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

GreenWillow said:


> Oh _please_, Python_gal. If I could be bothered I would go back to your posts, quote sections and demonstrate exactly where and how you were indicating in no uncertain terms that you kill *adult* rats by putting them into the freezer. However, I have better things to do. Further, it would be unfair to you as we are clearly unmatched as debate opponents. (Thought I'd try a bit of that honesty myself!  )


 
*Well, if you READ THE QUESTION that was put on this in the first place, you will see that the person was asking about PINKIES?????!!!! So therefore i was referrring to PINKIES, i would NEVER freeze a FUZZY rat let alone an ADULT!!! Also... if you read the rules fully it states that if your snake won't eat dead and you can prove it, that it's legal to feed live because you must feed your snake and not let it starve, you will get into more trouble for starving your snake to death then feeding it a few live rodents   *


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

Why would you never consider freezing a fuzzy or adult although think its perfectly acceptable to freeze live pinks?


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

What can I say, clearly you are more intelligent, more educated and much better versed in argument technique than me.


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Python gal, you stated that you made your snake starve for a whole month..
WOW! they can go much longer without food! Leave it for 2 months and then try with a really smelly rat, im sure it would work if you were persistent! And if not.. Leave it even longer!!

And yer im not very experienced at all, but think about it, would you like to be chucked in a freezer room and freeze to death?? and suffer for hours on end??
Or would you prefer to be quickly hit over the head and not suffer at all??

I think freezing is just plainly *heartless!*


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*coz it takes longer for an older rat to fall asleep!!!! whereas a da old pinky only takes 20 minutes.*


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *coz it takes longer for an older rat to fall asleep!!!! whereas a da old pinky only takes 20 minutes.*



If you are going to use that argument why dont you word it correctly?

It should read like this.......coz it takes longer for an older rat to FREEZE TO DEATH!!!! whereas a da old pinky only takes 20 minutes


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

I can't help it. Your reasoning just makes such poor sense that I can't not respond. So, freezing to death over a twenty minute period is okay? 

There are kinder ways of killing a critter than freezing it. Therefore two minutes, twenty minutes, or longer is an unnecessarily cruel length of time, and unacceptable.


----------



## hugsta (Mar 10, 2007)

Actually they die much faster than 20 minutes in a freezer.


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

hugsta said:


> Actually they die much faster than 20 minutes in a freezer.


I was merely quoting the time Python_gal gave us as she knows more about freezing rats than I do.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

I have never found 2 snakes that are the same!! as for Ashleigh:] like you said you have no experience, and do you think that a snake that has been fed nothing but live food for 4 years of its life is gunna turn around and eat dead?!? Well pinkies dont suffer for hours on end!!!! if you read what i said earlier its only 20 mins, and they fall asleep!!! Ashleigh i thought you said you couldnt hit an animal over the head, as you said in one of your threads?!?! So why recommend it to me???

ramsayi: your twisting my words round?? they (PINKIES) fall asleep, coz they get short of breath. i have never frozen an adult and never will (coz it wouldnt fall asleep) or even "die"!! thats why i buy my adult rats already frozen off anther breeder!!! Maybe you should read my threads properly, before you make accusations?!!


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

sorry python gal but it is you twisting words to justify your lame argument.They do not fall asleep they FREEZE TO DEATH.You might be able to lie to yourself to justify your cruel attitude towards a living thing but dont lie to the rest of us.


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> I have never found 2 snakes that are the same!! as for Ashleigh:] like you said you have no experience, and do you think that a snake that has been fed nothing but live food for 4 years of its life is gunna turn around and eat dead?!? Well pinkies dont suffer for hours on end!!!! if you read what i said earlier its only 20 mins, and they fall asleep!!! Ashleigh i thought you said you couldnt hit an animal over the head, as you said in one of your threads?!?! So why recommend it to me???
> 
> ramsayi: your twisting my words round?? they (PINKIES) fall asleep, coz they get short of breath. i have never frozen an adult and never will (coz it wouldnt fall asleep) or even "die"!! thats why i buy my adult rats already frozen off anther breeder!!! Maybe you should read my threads properly, before you make accusations?!!



I didnt say I had no experience, im not as bad as a 4yo.. LOL But yer im no where near as experience as GreenWillow or Melgalea!
And yer, I myself couldnt knock something over the head as I have a soft spot for most animals, although if I was to kill a rat and I had to do it, I would gas it..
And so what if its less than 20 minutes or more.. 
Think about it as if it was you.. Dont be so damn selfish.. How would you like it??


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> sorry python gal but it is you twisting words to justify your lame argument.They do not fall asleep they FREEZE TO DEATH.You might be able to lie to yourself to justify your cruel attitude towards a living thing but dont lie to the rest of us.



Very well put, exacly right!


----------



## Earthling (Mar 10, 2007)

I knew a guy that swore by the get a pin and shove it through the skull and mash their brain with it method......sounds sort of fun too........ for the masocist.........CO2 for me, then the pin gig if still pumping blood. 
Their skull is soft when young and the pin doesnt make as much mess as the bang the head on the hard object job......

But the pin job worked and was quick so I spose not a bad death.....

"If i was a rat how would i like to die?" .........................this is the question to ask yourself before you start killing.

Buy hey...if you dont give a toss about anything but yourself, dont ask that question and try to find a true answer but instead, proceed to kill anyway you like.


----------



## hugsta (Mar 10, 2007)

Actually the rats would probably die of hypothermia before they froze to death. Much like people would. You would be unconscious before you froze IMO.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*hugsta, just to clarify and shut every one up, how long does it take for a PINKIE to fall asleep? I have seen when i open the freezer after 20 minutes that its lifeless.... *

*So greenwillow, you agree with hugsta? how would you know if you havent frozen a rat, as you say it is cruel, so unless someone has told you, you wouldnt know from experience? i dont understand? your telling me its wrong, but yet you are backing up what hugsta said?? *

*how many times do i have to say it "STICKS AND STONES" and "WATER OFF A DUCKS BACK"...*


----------



## Australis (Mar 10, 2007)

Intresting thread indeed, a few of you might not know, but brick walls dont have ears 
look for yourself!!!






Also, if Python care, and humane rodent killing isnt working out for you, like others have already suggested "pet rocks" might be a easier option?


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *hugsta, just to clarify and shut every one up, how long does it take for a PINKIE to fall asleep? I have seen when i open the freezer after 20 minutes that its lifeless.... *
> 
> *So greenwillow, you agree with hugsta? how would you know if you havent frozen a rat, as you say it is cruel, so unless someone has told you, you wouldnt know from experience? i dont understand? your telling me its wrong, but yet you are backing up what hugsta said?? *
> 
> *how many times do i have to say it "STICKS AND STONES" and "WATER OFF A DUCKS BACK"...*



Still.. No matter how long it takes and whether they do fall asleep before they freeze.. How would you like it??

Just answer oen question for me python gal.. How would you prefer to die??


----------



## Earthling (Mar 10, 2007)

I must say hypothermia would be in my top 3 ways to die........sounds like fun...................................




NOT.


----------



## hugsta (Mar 10, 2007)

Not entering this debate here, but it takes much longer fo a pinkie to be gassed IME than it does to be frozen. So what's worse? Starving them of oxygen or freezing them or feeding them alive or smashing them aganst one of those pretty rocks that australis posted? 

No one way sems particularly pleasent to me.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*ok if its gunna shut everyone (and their useless remarks) up then i'll try what earthling said and i'll put a pin through its head... Is everyone happy now?!?! (not that i care) *

*as for me thinking like and being a rat; If someone where to freeze me, i dont think i would have a choice as to whether or not thats what i want!! It was gunna happen whether i liked it or not!! *

*How come its ok for scientists to use rats as 'guinea pigs', and they end up with growths out the side of them, and discomfort whilst being kept in a small tub and needles being shoved into them all day, till they die or are killed?!?! How do you justify that??? At least mine go up to ratty heaven... you seem to like rocks so much, you should take it up...*


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *So greenwillow, you agree with hugsta? how would you know if you havent frozen a rat, as you say it is cruel, so unless someone has told you, you wouldnt know from experience? i dont understand? your telling me its wrong, but yet you are backing up what hugsta said??*


Do you actually read what anyone writes, or just scan for a few key words then make up your own version with those?? Or perhaps you have mistaken my post for someone elses? 

Next, where, in anything I have said, am I backing up what Hugsta wrote? If you actually READ and COMPREHENDED what I wrote you would realise that I was actually defering to your much greater experience and intellect.

The rest of what you say/ask I can not even respond to. It makes no sense what so ever. NO sense. I have been sitting here for ever such a long time trying to unravel it and the best I can come up with is,
1. GreenWillow does not freeze rats as she believes it to be cruel
2. GreenWillow believes this to be cruel as somebody told her this is so
3. GreenWillow does not know from direct experience that killing rats by freezing them is cruel.

Well, yes! 

So what exactly are you trying to say???


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

well no one has answered my question on why is it not ok to kill a rat any other way than CO2 or breaking the things neck. But it's ok to set traps everywere for them and feed them up with rat poisen which is a lot longer than 20 min I can assure u and proberbly much more horrid. And what's really got me is that do u all really think pythongal is the only one who freezes rat (be serious) same as eating rats live!!. I'm not saying I do it, but I can gaurantee u there are others out there that do, I know plenty of them and half of them are respected people they just don't tell u the whole truth cause they know they will get flamed by the people who just can't justify this. At the end of the day like I said were talking about a animal that is a pest and full of diseases but because it's not grey and it's white and black and fuzzy and cute we can't kill it any other way than what we consider is humane. Has anyone every asked a rat is gassing a nice way to die. We have snakes, snakes need food they don't have food that comes in a tin like our poor dogs and cats are forced to eat. We've trained snakes that they have to eat what we say which is frozed CO2 killed food and we won't have it any other way. I'm not justifying either way but my point is rats are a animal YES, it's not ok to freeze them, drown them etc, but it is ok to bait them to death if there grey and running around our house ?.


----------



## Earthling (Mar 10, 2007)

You can not justify what scientists do to rats. Its plain cruel.
Read some Peter Singer, your library will have it....very good read and easy too, may change your life.

*"as for me thinking like and being a rat; If someone where to freeze me, i dont think i would have a choice as to whether or not thats what i want!! It was gunna happen whether i liked it or not!! "*

*Think, if i was a rat, and I DID have a choice, how would I like to die? *
*You as the killer have the power to choose. The rats dont. *


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*im just running around in circles... first i am asked by ashleigh to be / think like a rat, so i did. Now i am being asked by earthling to be the killer. I am the killer so i am already being her... greenwillow thinks they are the smart one here, but cant seem to get what this is about.*

*im sick of having to wait 900 seconds to reply to these stupid remarks!! I have said im gunna put a pin in its head, so GET OVER IT!! Or is that cruel as well?!? *
*thats it problem solvered, ya'll have a nice life...*


----------



## Earthling (Mar 10, 2007)

Allana........just because society does something does not make it right. 
If you go back far enough slavery was the done thing and perfectly legitimate..if you suggested otherwise you were condemned.
Not so long ago, if you had black skin in Australia you couldnt vote......you were fauna.
Not so long ago, if you were female you were not equal to men.

Currently we still poison animals....
Currently some people still believe freezing to death an animal is humane.
Currently some people still believe its OK to kill by trapping...look how thats changed in the last 30 years(rabbit traps for an example).
Currently many things happen that with time people will realise are wrong. 
You can be a leader in that change or you can follow.
All about choice.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

hugsta said:


> Not entering this debate here, but it takes much longer fo a pinkie to be gassed IME than it does to be frozen. So what's worse? Starving them of oxygen or freezing them or feeding them alive or smashing them aganst one of those pretty rocks that australis posted?
> 
> No one way sems particularly pleasent to me.


 
Yep I agree nothing is nice about killing anything at the end of the day.


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal.. I have asked serveral times now and so has earthling.. Just answer the damn question..

If you were that rat how would you prefer to get killed??


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

Anyone who thinks its pain free to freeze a living rodent or any other mammal for that matter go and place your hand in your freezer on a bag of frozen whatever and keep it there for a lousy 5 minutes then come back and tell me that it isnt painful.The best methods are the ones that dispatch them QUICKLY,anyone who cant understand that needs some serious help.


----------



## hugsta (Mar 10, 2007)

So what do you all recomend as beng the most humane way of killing pinkies? I would like to hear this from people who actually have some experience in this and are not 'guessing' at humane ways of killing them.


----------



## hugsta (Mar 10, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> Anyone who thinks its pain free to freeze a living rodent or any other mammal for that matter go and place your hand in your freezer on a bag of frozen whatever and keep it there for a lousy 5 minutes then come back and tell me that it isnt painful.The best methods are the ones that dispatch them QUICKLY,anyone who cant understand that needs some serious help.


 
I need help......:shock:  :lol: 

But that's irrelevant to killing rats.:lol:


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

lol Daz in your case you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy past the help stage lol


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

Earthling said:


> Allana........just because society does something does not make it right.
> If you go back far enough slavery was the done thing and perfectly legitimate..if you suggested otherwise you were condemned.
> Not so long ago, if you had black skin in Australia you couldnt vote......you were fauna.
> Not so long ago, if you were female you were not equal to men.
> ...


 
That's exactly my point. And I"m not going to get into a debate about the last 100 years of our history and I"m not saying that anyway of killing a rat is nice. What I'm trying to say is that all these people are on here condeming feeding a rat live to a snake, or freezing etc. Yet I"m sure they all have rat bate around there house caues they don't want them filthy firmin inside chewing there walls out making a nest etc etc, I don't know to many that have a rat catcher and realese them back into the wild. Same as the good old kane toad how many of us catch them and realease them back somewere were they won't bother us. My point is us as humans think we have the right to make the right choice for everything reality is we dont so how can we say a snake must eat frozen, how can we say which is the right way for something to die (there's no right way unless it dies naturall).


----------



## Earthling (Mar 10, 2007)

Yes hugsta pinkies are sometimes hard to kill and to naswer your question, as I previously said I CO2 and if still alive now do the pin thing. i find however CO2 kills 90% of them.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

Bonustokin said:


> Python Gal, Im gunna have to say, you need to grow up a bit. You are losing this debate by 100/1 and you are still claiming that your method is acceptable, when its clearly not. Time to accept you are wrong and that you have been making a mistake by putting them in the freezer. It takes you 10seconds to knock them on the head before you put them in the freezer, i suggest you do it.
> Might save you alot of karma in the future too....


 
I would love to see someone wack a pinkie on the head (wouldn't be much left of it I'm sure).


----------



## Bonustokin (Mar 10, 2007)

hugsta said:


> So what do you all recomend as beng the most humane way of killing pinkies? I would like to hear this from people who actually have some experience in this and are not 'guessing' at humane ways of killing them.



IMO, grab them by the tail, and bang their head on something soild, hard as u can. This might take more then one "bang" to kill the pinky, but the first "bang" defenatly KO's them, so they dont feel the 2nd one. And you could give them a 3rd if you really wanna make sure  

They are really hard to hold and swing by the tail because they are so small, but it helps if you hold at the base of the tail, not the tip.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

Bonustokin said:


> IMO, grab them by the tail, and bang their head on something soild, hard as u can. This might take more then one "bang" to kill the pinky, but the first "bang" defenatly KO's them, so they dont feel the 2nd one. And you could give them a 3rd if you really wanna make sure
> 
> They are really hard to hold and swing by the tail because they are so small, but it helps if you hold at the base of the tail, not the tip.


 
Well I dunno but I have done a fair few this way. Pretty much u don't do it right u end up with a rat with a bad bad headache (cruelty). I have done and seen both methods, wacking, breaking necks and it isn't really pleasent and well they don't die the second u do it.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*Dramas Dramas Dramas!!! All over how a rat falls asleep / dies!! In future i am now gunna put a pin through its head then freeze it (once i know its dead), as thats what many other people have said is BETTER to do. So i am gunna give it a go. Now is there any one else who wants to continue this debate?!? Or are we finally over and done with?!?!*

*No hard feelings?!? I enjoyed this debate, i learnt not to be HONEST!! LOL!!!*


----------



## NCHERPS (Mar 10, 2007)

Please keep this thread civil and don't get into personal attacks, we all have our own opinions on the subject. THANKYOU.

My personal experience is that I lay down a flat peice of plastic sheeting on the garage floor, take out the pinkie mice or rat pups and throw them really hard onto the plastic sheeting, I have maybe 2 out of 100 split.
Most die first throw, some will be stunned and die second throw.
I believe this to be a quick and efficient way to kill them.


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Alright.. Back to the live feeding then shall we??

What things have you tried to get your snake off live??


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 10, 2007)

It is because we care how a rat "falls asleep" that we are good people. We respect life in all it's forms. We want to do what is kindest for an animal, even if it is just a "food item".


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> I have never found 2 snakes that are the same!! as for Ashleigh:] like you said you have no experience, and do you think that a snake that has been fed nothing but live food for 4 years of its life is gunna turn around and eat dead?!?


 

Ok I have to comment on this....

About 7 years ago I got an adult male coastal carpet (he was older than 4 years) of a redneck who only feed him live rats , It took me close on 12 months to get him eating frozen rats (trying once a month) , I still have him now and he never misses a meal.

As for ashleigh being new to keeping snakes , she seems understand alot more than most newbie-snake keepers seem to atm.

Sure feeding live is "natural" but snakes kept in captivity is not natural , easy.


----------



## Python Gal (Mar 10, 2007)

*Ashleigh... i have starved her, i have made the dead rat look as much alive as possible, i hit her with it, i left it with her over night, i brained it, rubbed it all over her. So many things i have tried *sigh*. She hasnt (and WILL NOT) get hurt or bitten by eating live rats, the rats i feed to her (will sound mean) but i handle them alot, so they are friendly and dont see it coming when she strikes and coils it. She is quick!! Even i dont see it coming!! (i am being nice so DONT ANYONE critisize me please) *


----------



## Ramsayi (Mar 10, 2007)

One day your snake " WILL" be injured when coiling around a live rat.As far as switching the live feeder over to FK or FT you can do it with time and patience.


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 10, 2007)

python gal
you really hav no clue
you stated awhile back in your thread you only feed your snake live pinkys, yet you have said a couple of pages back that your snake has been fed live food for the last 4 years. does that mean you have a 4 yr old snake and your only feeding it pinkies......
heres some advice for free.......
giv your animals away to someone who can look after properly and buy one of those pet rocks australis was advertising...


----------



## Ashleigh:] (Mar 10, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *Ashleigh... i have starved her, i have made the dead rat look as much alive as possible, i hit her with it, i left it with her over night, i brained it, rubbed it all over her. So many things i have tried *sigh*. She hasnt (and WILL NOT) get hurt or bitten by eating live rats, the rats i feed to her (will sound mean) but i handle them alot, so they are friendly and dont see it coming when she strikes and coils it. She is quick!! Even i dont see it coming!! (i am being nice so DONT ANYONE critisize me please) *



Well.. You said you what.. starved her for a month.. wow.. that isnt long at all!!
Like trousa, he starved his for a whole year until it took it!
It doesnt even seem like you are trying.

And how can you not expect people to critize you, look at what you are doing!

And for calling me stupid, you dont know the first thing about me!
I havent said anything peronal about you, only stated that i think what you do is wrong.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 10, 2007)

GreenWillow said:


> It is because we care how a rat "falls asleep" that we are good people. We respect life in all it's forms. We want to do what is kindest for an animal, even if it is just a "food item".


 
I disagree, we as a society call ourselves good people because we think what we are doing is ok. Us killing any animal that wasn't meant to die is cruel so we are not kind. Dosn't matter how we kill it were still killing it. Even the people who think they have never killed a thing have, think of the land your house was built on, think of the wooden furniture, think of the backburning etc etc, we kill innocent animals everyday for our own good and benifit. I don't think all those poor animals that get caught in our backburning get a choice on how nice or quick it is to get burnt alive. Like I said earlier I am not arguing which is the nicest method to kill something. What I'm saying is at the end of the day we are not nice people at all if we think we have the right to kill anything that wasn't meant to die full stop..


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 11, 2007)

Python Gal said:


> *Ashleigh... i have starved her, i have made the dead rat look as much alive as possible, i hit her with it, i left it with her over night, i brained it, rubbed it all over her. So many things i have tried *sigh*. She hasnt (and WILL NOT) get hurt or bitten by eating live rats, the rats i feed to her (will sound mean) but i handle them alot, so they are friendly and dont see it coming when she strikes and coils it. She is quick!! Even i dont see it coming!! (i am being nice so DONT ANYONE critisize me please) *


 

I'm sorry I am not having a go at you (will I am trying very hard not to) but how can you say a rat (no matter how tame ) will not fight for its life when a pyhton is going to eat it... I have seen captive snakes lose eyes from rat bites etc (none of my snakes are feed live)

Sure they eat live in the wild , but how manny snakes die from infections from geting bitten by what they have atacked in the wild.

Maybe look abit more into what people are saying to you about why not to feed live and I am sure you will understand where they are coming from.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 11, 2007)

melgalea said:


> python gal
> you really hav no clue
> you stated awhile back in your thread you only feed your snake live pinkys, yet you have said a couple of pages back that your snake has been fed live food for the last 4 years. does that mean you have a 4 yr old snake and your only feeding it pinkies......
> heres some advice for free.......
> giv your animals away to someone who can look after properly and buy one of those pet rocks australis was advertising...


 

Were did she say she only fed live pinkie's, she said she only freezes live pinkies.  . And like I said earlier melgalea, don't make personal judgement on someone when you have never met them. U havn't seen her snakes, u dont' see how much she loves them and looks after them. I can gaurantee you there's a lot more people on here that deserve pet rocks than her.:lol: . So pretty much everyone who has ever fed there snake a live rat should sell them cause they can't look after them .


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 11, 2007)

ALLANA
python gal stated that her snake only eats live rats.....she also stated that she doesnt and will not feed them live fuzzys or adults. so obviously she must be feeding them pinkies. get ya facts straight.


----------



## GreenWillow (Mar 11, 2007)

allana1313 said:


> I disagree, we as a society call ourselves good people because we think what we are doing is ok. Us killing any animal that wasn't meant to die is cruel so we are not kind. Dosn't matter how we kill it were still killing it. Even the people who think they have never killed a thing have, think of the land your house was built on, think of the wooden furniture, think of the backburning etc etc, we kill innocent animals everyday for our own good and benifit. I don't think all those poor animals that get caught in our backburning get a choice on how nice or quick it is to get burnt alive. Like I said earlier I am not arguing which is the nicest method to kill something. What I'm saying is at the end of the day we are not nice people at all if we think we have the right to kill anything that wasn't meant to die full stop..


Perhaps you should take your friend Python_gal's advice and not have any snakes. Then perhaps you should leave your house and live in a cave somewhere. Perhaps you should not drink water, it has tiny little critters in it. Perhaps you should not eat vegetables, as they are living, until you pluck them from the soil.


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 11, 2007)

GreenWillow said:


> Perhaps you should take your friend Python_gal's advice and not have any snakes. Then perhaps you should leave your house and live in a cave somewhere. Perhaps you should not drink water, it has tiny little critters in it. Perhaps you should not eat vegetables, as they are living, until you pluck them from the soil.


 



Crap youse is being a smart person Green willow  


(smart in a good way  )


----------



## cyclamen (Mar 11, 2007)

oh well, i am going to leave it at this....
python gal and allana know it all...apparantly the other 30 odd people who have posted on this thread are inexperienced in everything. so since i am so inexperienced, i hav nothing more to say...
enjoy freezing your rats, enjoy feeding your snake live rats. enjoy being a wonderful and experienced reptile keeper.


----------



## ALLANA (Mar 11, 2007)

melgalea said:


> ALLANA
> python gal stated that her snake only eats live rats.....she also stated that she doesnt and will not feed them live fuzzys or adults. so obviously she must be feeding them pinkies. get ya facts straight.


 
lol wow ok I've just gone back through every thread here and could not for the life of me see were she said she does not feed them live fuzzies or adults. And well u really think someone would feed a four year old snake a bunch of pinkies. No need to get nasty at me, won't go far.


----------



## NCHERPS (Mar 11, 2007)

I am locking this thread now, as it seems that we are starting to get personal again.
Shame that the few spoil it for the majority!


----------

