# Australian native vivariums/ My attempt



## mattyjj (Jul 26, 2014)

Hi all, Im a new kid on the block really. I've been researching with very little luck Australian native vivariums. I've tried to create a native planted viv for my Oedura castelnaui, Underwoodisaurus milii, Christinus marmoratus and Amalosia lesueurii.

My set-up is a Exo Terra 90x45x45, lighting with a Exo Terra Large Compact Top fitted with 2 24w 6500k cfl bulbs and 2 25w night lights, also a Exo Terra Light Dome 18 cm fitted with a 150w moonlight bulb. Main source of heating is a 25w thermostat controlled heatpad. 

To help keep humidity high keep reasonable moisture levels for the plants I have installed a waterfall with fogger and a Monsoon system (helps keep droplets of water for the geckos also). 

My substrate levels from bottom to top are 2 inches of clay balls, Fly screen mesh, a layer of orchid bark then a mixture of peat, orchid bark, sand, spagnum moss and small bonsai sized stone.

Plants I have used so far include Dendrobium orchids, Bangalow palms, Soft tree Fern (dicksonia antarctia), Rock Fern, Birds Nest Fern, Baby tears, Selaginella moss, Port Jackson fig and Hoya climbers, all of which I got from Bunnings (when planting in any reptile tank make sure you shake the roots to remove all fertilizer balls and plant bare rooted)

The jungle background boards I found on ebay, their detail being 2nd to none.

I'm still wanting to introduce some lichen and mosses to really finish it off, Any suggestions or comments welcome.


----------



## James_Scott (Jul 26, 2014)

Very good start mate. As you go you will find the palms grow so well that they block the light to the rest of the viv. You may need to remove some plants from time to time and play around with what works. In the moist style enclosures watch out for mold and just pick it out when it arrives. This will stop when you have reached a balance of good bacteria. Make sure all you animals are suited to moist conditions. You should always make the enclosure to match the conditions of the animals requirements. You may also need to feed them more in this style of enclosure as it will be harder for them to find food. Good luck with it all.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Jul 27, 2014)

The tank looks awesome but there are some issues it would raise for me. 

If you are wishing to use only Australian native plants...
- Baby's Tears (Soleirolia soleirolii) is an exotic.
- Hoya's from Bunnings will almost definitely be exotics and / or hybrids.
- Selaginella moss is actually a clubmoss. From Bunnings it is most likely Selaginella kraussiana, which is exotic
- Rock Fern and Dendrobiums requires a scientific name to determine if exotic or native.
Bangalow Palms and Soft Tree Ferns will soon outgrow the viv. Minimising fertilising to what they can take up from the substrate will slow them down. Bird's Nest Ferns are slower growers but will do likewise. Is that a Platycerium species showing in photo. Some other plants to consider are some of the smaller forms of Comon Maiden Hair Fern (Adiantum aethiopicum), Venus Hair Fern (Adiantum capillus-veneris), Walking Maidenhair Fern (Adiantum philippense), Native Violets (Viola hederacea). There is a lot of information about terraiums but unfortunately nothing I have seen on using Australian plants.

For moss, find a Bonsai Nusery and talk to them as they often use it as a ground cover in their pots. Lichen is very slow growing. I would suggest using rock or timber which aready has a good growth on it or just forget about it. Liverworts might interest you. I have grown a few different species. They are often a pest in nurseries, growing in the pots around the base of plants - these are spore sown native varieties. They can be found in nature growing in damp, well shaded areas such the sides of small creeks and the bottom sections of south facing gullies in forested areas, often around the base of boulders or similar seepage areas. 

If you have not organised lighting yet I would recommend the fluorecent tubes used for planted freshwater aquariums, such as Siyvania Grolux or equivalent. T5 fluoros are apparently even better for promoting growth (which you may or may not want to do). I have not used them yet but intend to next time I have to replace a globe. They do require a separate fitting to the normal size. 

Given you are planting directly into the substrate, this will need to be kept consistently moist for the plant roots to survive. Combine that with the moisture given off by plants when photosynthesising and you are likely to have quite a high overall humidity level. I personally see no need to add a fogger on top. 

Probably the main issue for me is that your are grouping together animals from vastly different regions and conditions in the one terrarium. Temperature wise you have Oedura castelnaui from the very north of Qld and Christinus marmoratus from the bottom edge of Australia. Similarly with the levels of humidity each species would experience in its natural microhabitats. It is likely that their preferences and tolerance limits differ and this may not allow you to meet their individual requirements within the one enclosure.

Blue


----------



## pinefamily (Jul 27, 2014)

Was about to say the same as James, whether they are all suited to that sort of environment. Also, can these species all be kept together?

@bluetongue 1, you have summed it up better than me.


----------



## eipper (Jul 27, 2014)

none of those species are suited to that style viv.

the only rainforest geckos are

Oedura cf. monilis
Carphodactylus laevis
Saltuarius sp (excluding katae, wyberba and salebrosus(most pops)
Phyllurus sp (Excluding kabikabi, platurus)

You will get husbandry issues with moist terrariums with other species.


----------



## GBWhite (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi Matty,

No doubt you have gone to a lot of trouble with your vivarium but Scott has hit the nail on the head with his comment that you will have husbandry issues with the way it has been set up. It is totally unsuitable for your geckoes and you will definitely have husbandry issues if you intend to try and maintain these species under these conditions. Can I suggest you do some research on the micro habitats for all individual species and reconsider the way the enclosure is furnished.

George.


----------



## pinefamily (Jul 27, 2014)

Water skinks would love that enclosure.


----------



## mattyjj (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. so much to address but I will try my best.

My humidity is sitting between 55% to 70% percent depending on time of day. Temperature during day is peaking at 28 degrees at warm end and 26.5 degrees at cool end, but it is a gradual climb to that, very much like a natural day. At night the temperature is hitting a low of 23.5 at the warm end and between 21.5 and 19 degrees on the cool side, Ive set the heat pad up to maintain a base temperature to which the lighting does the rest. The daytime cycle starts at 7.30am and ends at 5pm to which the night time light cycle begins and shuts of at midnight. I did try to do this on purpose to mimic a more natural 24 hr cycle.

The heat pad has a thermostat control so when summer arrives I can lower the base temperature to try limit any heat stress. 

I added the fogger to increase humidity in spurts as I have it set up on a timer to come on at 6 hour intervals for 15 mins. The monsoon system comes on for around 5 seconds at 8pm and 10pm when my geckos are the most active.

From the varied info I have read I thought that the Oedura castelnaui did in fact inhabit various conditions from edge of rain forest, forest, open scrub and bushlands? The cavern they rest in is directly under the heat pad so the temperature would be a lot higher than the cooler temperatures that it falls to at night which would be more suitable for them.

As for the Underwoodisaurus milii definitely come from a wide range of environments and others keep them in alot of different conditions, all information you read is a little different from the next. They shed well and never have complications and seem very happy and active forever exploring and hunting. 

I've removed the 2 Christinus marmoratus as they are completely out of there conditions, so I now look forward to creating a new habitat for them. A question though could I keep the Amalosia lesueurii with them? I ask as the arod map has them overlapping in location?

Another question and I only ask due to my fish keeping experience do reptiles captive breed become more adaptable or tolerable to other conditions out of there natural zones over time? As a lot of tropical fish have now been able to be kept in varable conditions from there original locations. 

The hoyas I used are Hoya Dischorensis and Hoya carnosa. The Selaginella Ive made a honest mistake with as Ive seen it growing In and around Lane Cove near some fresh water streams. The baby tears I presumed was a native but I quite like your suggestion of the Viola hederacea blue. The rock fern is Cheilanthes Austrotenuifolia. Ive used dendrodium hardcane mericlones for the orchids.

I realised the palms would outgrow the enclosure, and can be easily replaced once they do, I used them to create a little shade for the Orchid and Selaginella. The tree ferns will in time grow to big but when grown in more direct sun light the frond size grows alot smaller and tighter. Once again to provide shade 

The lighting I'm using is 2 24w cfl (equivalent to 100W) colour temperature 6500k and 1800 lumens. 

I haven't witnessed any aggression among any of the geckos, and all are feeding and roaming around coming across each other. 2 of Underwoodisaurus milii have decided to shelter with the Oedura castelnaui. I have a few photos of this. 

Now that Ive better explained my set up, is that more favorable conditions for the Oedura castelnaui, Underwoodisaurus milii and Amalosia lesueurii then I first briefly explained? if Ive missed something or haven't addressed anything I apologise and again any further advice etc is really appreciated.


----------



## eipper (Jul 29, 2014)

When you go to the those rainforest edges they are actually dry forest..... There is no real transition from dry to wet. Same with the milli..... I have never seen milli in the rainforest. As I said earlier I hope you have no problems but I'd say you will have issues further down the track 

cheers
scott


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Jul 30, 2014)

Hi Matty,

Before tackling anything else I really want to say that you obviously have a natural gift for landscaping in miniature. The elements you have chosen and the way you put them together is brilliant - I love it. It takes a lot of time, trial and error and most of all, talent, to end up with something that looks that good.

Suprisingly the humidity levels are not as consistent high as I would have expected given your initial description of what was done. This and their daily variation suggest to me that you have a lot of ventilation. While not a bad thing in itself it can affect the stability of the temperature gradient. But again, it depends upon the non-moving air pockets that exist in such a complex arrangement.

Tropical fish have been artificially selected over many generations to obtain individuals with lower temperature tolerance limits than wild types. Artificial selection is one of the main processes that has produced the varied traits we now observe in domesticated animals. There is no reason it cannot also be applied to repltiles. However, be aware that a generalisation it large numbers to choose from, selective breeding and quiet a few generations to achieve the desired results.

Despite what much of the net will tell you, Hoya carnosa is not native to Australia, although it has become naturalised in some areas. It originates from southern China. H. dischorensis is not a recognised botanical name and looks like something the trade may have invented. They sometimes do that for hybrids by combining parts of the two species names. Whatever, I can guarantee it is not native. There are about 10 native species and I have only ever seen two of these in the trade - H. australis and H. macgillivrayi, both of which require good light. There are some excellent small leaved exotic hoyas available.

My own preference for lighting would be one or two full length fluoros, the same as you would use on a freshwater planted aquarium (such as Growlux). These produce more light in the red and blue ends of the spectrum than other lights, which is what the plants need. The blue end in particular will encourage bushy growth rather than lanky (etiolated) growth. 

Don't be afraid to get in there with the scissors on a regular basis. Little and often is the way to prune most vivarium plants. With those plants that have large, long leaves, take any excessively large ones off at the very base. Don't fertilise until absolutely necessary and this will help restrict growth.

If you look a distribution map for U. milii, it indicates that they are not that keen on the higher humidity areas. In dry eucalpyt forest bushland around Sydney, you may find them on north facing slopes but not on the moister south facing equivlent. From my experience they will utilise bare rock crevices or take refuge under rocks or logs on soil which almost dry but I have never found them on particularly moist soil, let alone wet soil. I would go for a drier microhabitat. 

A. leuseurii seem to prefer exfoliated rock slabs in my experience. I kept a colony of half a dozen for several years. I had a stable stack of three flatish sandstone rocks in one corner and some coarse silica sand with a few rock pieces as the substrate. Plus a couple of pieces of dry wood. They had a small water dish. Probably once a fortnight I would flick some water around off my fingers - they did not have spray bottles back then. They were fed with whatever insects, spiders, slaters and other ivertebrates I could catch in the garden, plus a few mealworms. I used to catch bushflies using a large aquarium net, put them in the fridge and then remove the wings once they were slowed down. These were very much a favoured food. Sorry about the rambling. Yeah, definitely on the drier side for these guys.

Christinus seem to have a wider tolerance as they are seasonally exposed to high humidity as well as dry periods. I would not want to keep them in continuously high humidity. Definitely not one to keep in wet conditions as they shelter in rock on rock, bark on dead trees and the eaves and ceiling areas of houses.

You could probably put together a rock (with some wood) landscaped viv that would be suitable for the A. lesueuri, U. milli and C. marmoratus, so long as they are similar in size. U. milli will eventually need to be separated before they get big enough to make a meal out of the other inhabitants. 

A drier planted viv can be made by having a thick layer of substrate, usually low in front and deep behind. Place place round plastic containers without holes, such as small yoghurt or margarine tubs, so that the top of the container is level with the substrate. Use round pots that will sit neatly into the containers. Cut the pot down to size if to fit level with the container and remove some soil from the bottom of it, if needed. You can also make your own pots to size. For example, take two small youghurt tubs, stack one inside the other and cut off the top to the depth required. remove the upper tub and cut or melt drainage holes in the bottom and use the plant pot. 

The plants should be watered by removing them placing in water for half an hour or so to saturate them. Then drain for 5 to10 minutes before replace in terrarium. Use of leaf litter around pot tops will obscure the potting soil and plastic container. Plants can be cycled with a replacement kept in a shadehouse. Simply alternate as required. In this way, plants not particularly well suited to long-term vivarium growth can be successfully used.

Some other species that have not been mentioned but that I would think should be well suited to your existing vivarium are...
Pinktongued Skink, Major Skink, young Water Dragons, Southern Angle-head Dragons, Eulamprus species other than the mentioned Water Skinks, such as tenuis and tigrinus, The *****kly Forest Skink, Carlia species such as rubrigularis and rhomboidalis, the Giant Tree Gecko, the Iron Range Ring-tailed Gecko, and smaller, less frequently kept moisture lovers such those in the genus Saproscincus.

Blue


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Aug 3, 2014)

Matty,

Forgot to mention a couple of plant things. The Rock Fern species is Australian. It is adapted to full sun so will likely bright light to do well - I don't know as I have not grown it indoors. Check the species of Denedrobiums to see if they are Aussie natives. Dendrobiums are best kept relatively dry during winter if you want the best floweriing results out of them.

For your interest: Hardcanes are a general grouping of orchids - they retain their leaves and flower from the end of the stem only. Mericlones are clones produced from meristematic tissue (by tissue culture). This tissue consist of undifferentiated (embryonic type) cells which are present in the growing tips (shoot and root tips) and in the cambium (between the phloem and xylem) in vascular bundles in the stem. 

Blue


----------

