# bluebelly nip for xmas



## baxtor (Dec 28, 2008)

who else got a little nip for xmas.


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## Kurto (Dec 28, 2008)

DAMN!! 

Does your arm feel like it's on fire? Or is a the pain in your finger?


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## Bob2 (Dec 28, 2008)

That'll make it one to remember. Ouch.


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## Mudimans (Dec 28, 2008)

And thats why my wife won't let me keep vens  Looks painfull


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## baxtor (Dec 28, 2008)

Kurto said:


> DAMN!!
> 
> Does your arm feel like it's on fire? Or is a the pain in your finger?


 
The pic was taken at about 48 hours, the finger was painful for about 24 hours with swelling only ever extending to the wrist. No other effect.


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## Danni (Dec 28, 2008)

omg thats nasty. lol


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## Kurto (Dec 28, 2008)

kinda looks similar to a red back bite I had years ago. Made me very very sick.


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## Danni (Dec 28, 2008)

Do you have a pic of the offender?

they are a gorgeous looking snake IMO

and out of curiosity was tiger snake antivenom used?


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## baxtor (Dec 28, 2008)

Danni said:


> Do you have a pic of the offender?
> 
> they are a gorgeous looking snake IMO
> 
> and out of curiosity was tiger snake antivenom used?


 
Offender is this juvenile. Was not his fault lifted the substrate to feed and he latched onto the first "pinkie" he saw.
Treatment was not sought considering the species and the size of the offender. I believe it is not common practice to administer antivenom for bluebelly and RBBS unless certain symptoms are evident.


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## moose (Dec 28, 2008)

Mmm looks nasty, i deal with these guys all the time on the farm, glad i have never been bitten! Yet!.


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## Danni (Dec 28, 2008)

baxtor said:


> Offender is this juvenile. Was not his fault lifted the substrate to feed and he latched onto the first "pinkie" he saw.
> Treatment was not sought considering the species and the size of the offender. I believe it is not common practice to administer antivenom for bluebelly and RBBS unless certain symptoms are evident.


 

oh he is gorgeous, and baxtor its never their fault lol...

I read a debate (canot remember where) about the antivenom which is why i asked.
thanks for sharing


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## foxysnake (Dec 28, 2008)

Damn, look painful, but have to agree gorgeous looking snake!!!


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## gex01 (Dec 28, 2008)

ouch i bet that wasnt on your wish list lol


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## m.punja (Dec 28, 2008)

Blue bellies would just use the black snake antivenom wouldn't they?


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## m.punja (Dec 28, 2008)

I've always understood blue belly's to be quite a lot more dangerous in toxic terms then the red bellies, is this true? I've always known the red belly's to be a not so bad bite with the collet just a little worse, then the blue belly and then the mulga more or less. Mulga being a more dangerous bite then the blue belly only because of the yeild not the venom.


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 28, 2008)

baxtor said:


> Offender is this juvenile. Was not his fault lifted the substrate to feed and he latched onto the first "pinkie" he saw.
> Treatment was not sought considering the species and the size of the offender. I believe it is not common practice to administer antivenom for bluebelly and RBBS unless certain symptoms are evident.



G'day mate,

Good work on not being shy about your bite, and explaining how it occured and what mistakes you made.

However the above advice is pretty risky - I know of at least one case where someone has been on deaths door from a _P.guttatus_ bite that occured in an almost identical situation to yours. From memory, they originally ignored the bite for about half an hour and then went downhill very quickly...

With regards to not seeking treatment because it's only a Blue Belly - drop for drop they are on par with Kingies.


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## elapid66 (Dec 28, 2008)

nice one


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## elapid66 (Dec 28, 2008)

half a dozen cans of jack is a good antivenom


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## m.punja (Dec 28, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day mate,
> 
> drop for drop they are on par with Kingies.


 

here i was thinking drop for drop they were worse then kingy's. Thanks for clearing that up Jonno


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## -Matt- (Dec 28, 2008)

Wow thats nasty! Hows it looking now? Any better?


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## itbites (Dec 28, 2008)

Nasty bite you got there baxtor, but gorgeous snake!


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## pythons73 (Dec 28, 2008)

Thats pretty nasty,i got biten by a baby Red Belly a month ago,in had intense pain in the bite finger,pins and needles,and under my arm was swollen,something about the glands were swollen,within half an hour i was vomiting,felt ok till i got home,taken to hospital by my partner.As far as im concerned it doesnt matter how little the bite,or the species of snake you should get some medical treatment....I HOPE all is well now....


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## elapid66 (Dec 28, 2008)

pythons73 said:


> Thats pretty nasty,i got biten by a baby Red Belly a month ago,in had intense pain in the bite finger,pins and needles,and under my arm was swollen,something about the glands were swollen,within half an hour i was vomiting,felt ok till i got home,taken to hospital by my partner.As far as im concerned it doesnt matter how little the bite,or the species of snake you should get some medical treatment....I HOPE all is well now....


did you get any av or just work though it


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## pythons73 (Dec 28, 2008)

At the hospital they did a venom kit,was positive for Tiger which is the same as Red Belly,i didnt get antivenom,i only had intense pins and needles in my bite finger and my glands under the arm were swollen,after 30minutes from the bite i vomited i was feelin ok,but my missus insisted i went to hospital,5 minute drive...


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## baxtor (Dec 28, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day mate,
> 
> Good work on not being shy about your bite, and explaining how it occured and what mistakes you made.
> 
> ...


 
jonno: I was only going by the CSL handbook quoted below, I was however keeping track of how I was feeling and as I said there was never anything more than very localised symptons.
"For bites by the red bellied black snake and the blue bellied black snake (=spotted black snake), antivenom is often less important, as these bites are rarely life threatening, though they may be distressing for the patient. Certainly, only cases with major systemic envenoming should be considered for antivenom therapy. As paralysis and coagulopathy do not occur, they cannot be used as criteria of envenoming. Myolysis, if present at all, is generally very mild, with peak CK of <2000IU."

Mark: apparently tiger snake antivenom is OK for the bluebellied and red bellied bites in most cases where AV is required and is suggested as a first choice because of it's lower volume and lower cost.


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 28, 2008)

G'day mate,

I was more so clarifying the point for anyone reading this thread who may cop a bite in the future and also try and ride it out. How you deal with your bites is your choice and I trust your judgement, but some people are very easily influenced...

Cheers


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## JasonL (Dec 29, 2008)

baxtor said:


> Mark: apparently tiger snake antivenom is OK for the bluebellied and red bellied bites in most cases where AV is required and is suggested as a first choice because of it's lower volume and lower cost.



"Blacksnake AV" is made from Mulga snake venom, thus why tigersnake AV is used for RBB ect, tigersnake AV being a bit of a allrounder.


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## ecosnake (Dec 29, 2008)

Note to all other keepers, specially those that are starting out with hots (venomous snakes) if you get bitten and it doesn’t matter what species or what you have heard...."go to hospital" you just may not have the same reaction as the next person. That a nasty bite and you will most likely lose you fingers.


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## snakes_666 (Dec 29, 2008)

ecosnake said:


> Note to all other keepers, specially those that are starting out with hots (venomous snakes) if you get bitten and it doesn’t matter what species or what you have heard...."go to hospital" you just may not have the same reaction as the next person. That a nasty bite and you will most likely lose you fingers.


 

i'm with you ecosnake


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2008)

*hi*



baxtor said:


> Offender is this juvenile. Was not his fault lifted the substrate to feed and he latched onto the first "pinkie" he saw.
> Treatment was not sought considering the species and the size of the offender. I believe it is not common practice to administer antivenom for bluebelly and RBBS unless certain symptoms are evident.



G'day baxtor : hope all goes well with your recovery, I heard of this guy once who took a similar bite to yours from a pseudchis guttatus and this person lost his thumb , He still was given the AV. By the way nice bluebelly, i would love one of them to ad to my collection. I dont know very many people who havent been bitten by a ven that own them in captivity. i havent ! yet:lol:
stay well.


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## waruikazi (Dec 29, 2008)

m.punja said:


> I've always understood blue belly's to be quite a lot more dangerous in toxic terms then the red bellies, is this true?



I know it has been answered already but i was under this same impression but as it turns out they both have the same LD50 rating of 0.3(*edit: Hrmmm turns out it depends which LD50 test you look at as to which is more toxic, they are either listed as the same or guttatus more toxic*). Even so i know which one i'd prefer to get tagged by. 

Anyone that gets bitten by any ven just go to hospital. It's a small price pay for your life or a limb. Baxtor i'm glad you're ok now and hope you keep your finger.


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## eipper (Dec 29, 2008)

HI all,

I was almost killed by a P. guttatus yearling about 14 yrs ago, I thought "I could ride it out" too....

Problem was I was becoming hypertensive (from the venom) causing my blood pressure to fall. about 10mins post bite.

I was well on my way to a Coma when the first load of A/V (administered 1 hr post bite) started working along with the anti histimines and adrenaline. This slowed the progress and a further 3000 units of tiger A/V was admin later and was discharged with a very nasty looking finger, bruising up my arm, and over my ribs and swelling to the elbow.

A mate tried riding one out as well and was in a Coma for 5 days.

While they are near enough on par With Mulgas in toxicity...give me same size mulga bite anyday of the week over another Blue Belly

Cheers,
Scott


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## Kyro (Dec 29, 2008)

That looks terrible, hope everything works out ok for you Baxtor. Is the swelling going down?


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## kandi (Dec 29, 2008)

WOW! that looks so nasty had to show my 7yr old jaw dropped and said that is the rude finder.


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## Scleropages (Dec 29, 2008)

Hope ya don't lose the finger ya poor bu gger!, Nice snake but I think I will stick to BTSs ( and still go no where near the sharp end!)


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## AustHerps (Dec 29, 2008)

As previously said, thanks for sharing.

Let this be a reminder to all that it's too common to see people lifting newspaper, removing waterbowls, and looking under hideboxes using their hands, without first locating the snake. The fact is, you just don't know if the head is a half inch from where you're putting your fingers. From what I've seen, using a hook as a first point of contact goes a long way. It lets the snake know you're there so that you don't spook it. 

How one handles one's elapids is up to the individual - but there's nothing to be lost by being a little more careful.

Cheers,
Aaron.


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## AustHerps (Dec 29, 2008)

eipper said:


> I was almost killed by a P. guttatus yearling about 14 yrs ago, I thought "I could ride it out" too....



I handled elapids for the first time at Scotts a while back... I was nervous enough, hook and tailing my first ever bluebelly. It was at that time that Scott decided to tell me it was the exact snake that tagged him. Boy, did I crap myself!

Cheers,
Aaron.


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 29, 2008)

One of the scariest experiences I have ever had, which was a massive wake-up call, was coming about an inch from being tagged by a Mozambique Spitting Cobra. I had become complacent, and simply leant into the top opening enclosure to place a waterbowl in. The cobra, only about 4 foot long, shot from one end of the enclosure to the other and latched onto the waterbowl, right beside my hand and sent two perfect yellow streams of venom into the water. I've never done it since.


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## kensai (Dec 30, 2008)

I use a pickup stick to remove water bowl and newspaper until I can see my RBBS, Even though they are classed as nonleathal I still give him all the respect elapids diserve, by the way if you look at the clinical toxinolgy website they are reccommending Black snake anti venom for both P. Guttatus and RBBS


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## JasonL (Dec 30, 2008)

kensai said:


> , by the way if you look at the clinical toxinolgy website they are reccommending Black snake anti venom for both P. Guttatus and RBBS



CSL advise it to be used only if Tiger snake AV is not available.


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## fishead (Dec 30, 2008)

Man that finger looks saw bro. I hope it heals up ok for you. I got a scratch from a blue belly years ago but luckily it was just a scratch. I've never kept any hots but have played with plenty in the bush. That's the only time a hotty has drawn blood on me but it don't count as a bite.

Hey Jonno, I had a big Mosambiquan spitting cobra cruise between my feet bowhunting in Zimbabwe a few years ago. The trackers eyes were near popping out! The snake was just nosing around through the leaf litter, I was stalking a nice bushbuck so wasn't doing much moving anyway so stood still and the snake kept on going about his business. I didn't know exactly what it was at the time, I knew it was a pretty mean looking elapid but didn't know it was a spitter. Glad I didn't stir him up! The trackers didn't speak much english, it wasn't until in camp that night that one of the pro hunters told me what I had between my legs. There's a got to be a joke there somewhere hey :lol:


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 30, 2008)

Haha nice story Fishhead. They are really cool snakes...I had a hatchling squirt me straight in the eyes from over 2 metres away once...lucky I had a faceshield on.


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## BlindSnake (Dec 30, 2008)

If the finger still looks like that, or worse, i would seriously seek medical advice.

I had a skin + tissue graft on my arm last year, + after i was home for a cpl days, it started looking like yr finger..
I thought it was just briusing and did nothing about it.. until it started turning black.
I ended up with a mummified graft stuck on my arm, and had to wait a cpl months for scar tissue to grow underneath it. It was pretty gross. 
I really hope yr finger is better than it looks in the pic now - if not, might be time to have it monitered by a doc.

Wish you the best of luck with your recovery.


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

BlindSnake said:


> If the finger still looks like that, or worse, i would seriously seek medical advice.
> 
> I had a skin + tissue graft on my arm last year, + after i was home for a cpl days, it started looking like yr finger..
> I thought it was just briusing and did nothing about it.. until it started turning black.
> ...


 
I have been in contact with and I am sending daily updates to a Doc at the avru. He was informed of the circumstances and timeline surrounding the bite and gave me advise accordingly.


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## redbellybite (Dec 31, 2008)

nice job Baxtor , nice snake too....But have to agree on what others have said if you recieve a bite by any ven ,please seek medical aid , tis better to be told by the meds that everything will be ok for you ,and have it recorded on your file ,so if something does go belly up they are prepared and in most cases will find out by specialists if unsure ,then presume you will be ok and find out the hard way either waking up in ICU or worse, wearing a halo and wings........everyone is different how you react to a bite differs from your buddy...on average most are ok but hey that is just a statistic not a definate positive ....


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 31, 2008)

Thanks for sharing baxtor, good luck with the recovery.
Those feeding bites deliver the goods every time huh.





> Was not his fault lifted the substrate to feed and he latched onto the first "pinkie" he saw.


 
Cheers


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## moosenoose (Dec 31, 2008)

I hope your mangled black stump gets better pronto, he's really done a number on you :lol: Thanks for sharing and all the best


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

ssssnakeman said:


> Thanks for sharing baxtor, good luck with the recovery.
> Those feeding bites deliver the goods every time huh.
> 
> 
> ...


 
I thought tigers were pigs, this guy needs to seen to be believed when it comes to food. It was not like he just bit me, he latched onto what he thought was lunch and I had to actually remove him from the finger which probably took a second or two so I think he got a bit in. I should point out to everybody though so I don't look like a complete tool is that after the bite I was monitoring myself very closely and I am only 15 minutes from hospital and apart from painful finger there was absolutely no other symptoms. There was some mild swelling that never extended past the wrist and the finger was no more than painful for 2 full days before it blistered up like it is in the pic. The pic is taken at 48 hours post bite.
All the best wishes for my finger are very much appreciated, I have them crossed for the best.


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## cracksinthepitch (Dec 31, 2008)

Merry Christmas Baxtor, hope you're not partying with him on New Years Eve. Good luck with the recovery.


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## waruikazi (Dec 31, 2008)

How's it looking now mate? A bit macabre but i don't suppose you could post an update pic?


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## dragon170 (Dec 31, 2008)

Hope all goes well for you Baxtor and nice snakey to would love to see him if your ever coming up my way again


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> How's it looking now mate? A bit macabre but i don't suppose you could post an update pic?


Gordo, Pics at 108 hours post bite, looking much the same but it is feeling as though it is getting better. It is starting to dry out a bit. Most of it just looks gross and a bit bloody, it is the small patch near the tip of the finger on the side on shot that I am concerned about as that is the actual bite site and I seem to feel more "depth" to it than I would expect. There is of course some restriction of movement because of the blistering but I do still have full movement and feeling in the finger and all the joints.


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## waruikazi (Dec 31, 2008)

Cheers mate. IF you don't mind answering can you tell us what your doctor has said about treating your finger in that state? Are you on antibiotics of flushing it with any kind of saline etc?


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Cheers mate. IF you don't mind answering can you tell us what your doctor has said about treating your finger in that state? Are you on antibiotics of flushing it with any kind of saline etc?


 
I was told to keep it elevated and as immobile as possible and I think anything further to that depends on what he sees in the pics and my reports. It is not being flushed at the moment as there is not any open wound yet, more so a lot of fluid pockets under the skin which will no doubt break out some time soon. There is no indication of any type of infection being present yet.


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## shlanger (Dec 31, 2008)

Greetings Steve (Baxtor), greetings Scott Eipper, greetings all. I have in my collection two snakes which have bitten their previous owners. Both of which were not much more than hatchies at the time. (The snakes that is!) The first, a mulga, bit its previous owner whilst he was "playing" with it on the loungeroom floor. This bite flattened him! Result an emergency ambulance helicopter flight from Bendigo central Vic. to a Melb hospital for treatment. As I understand it this guy still has no sense of smell or taste. Not so sure about a mulga bite being "better" than a blue belly bite Scott! The second was a bloke bitten by a black tiger. Result, three days in the local hospital and it took FIVE (yeah FIVE!) ampules of antivenom to reverse his envenomation! I believe alcohol played a part in both of these cases! Strange as it may seem, after both bites, the respective owners decided that the didnt want the snakes anymore and gave them over to me! Steve - this doesnt say much for the quality of the food item you were about to feed! (giggle, giggle!). All the best mate, hope you make a full recovery! Dale G.


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## gozz (Dec 31, 2008)

Hope ,all gets well for you cheers


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## JasonL (Dec 31, 2008)

shlanger said:


> Strange as it may seem, after both bites, the respective owners decided that the didnt want the snakes anymore and gave them over to me! Dale G.




I always find it funny that someone gets these animals, play's with them, then give the whole thing up after their first bite... what do these people expect??? If you plan on owning these large capable elapids, you have to plan on getting bitten one day...


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## cracksinthepitch (Dec 31, 2008)

JasonL said:


> I always find it funny that someone gets these animals, play's with them, then give the whole thing up after their first bite... what do these people expect??? If you plan on owning these large capable elapids, you have to plan on getting bitten one day...


 
Very wise words indeed

Perhaps the licencing systems should include questions like what is your bite plan?


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## waruikazi (Dec 31, 2008)

cracksinthepitch said:


> Very wise words indeed
> 
> Perhaps the licencing systems should include questions like what is your bite plan?



Up here it does.


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## Vincent (Dec 31, 2008)

JasonL said:


> I always find it funny that someone gets these animals, play's with them, then give the whole thing up after their first bite...




Hahaha. Very true. "The wife's making me get rid of them" seems to be the most popular excuse, or reason i should say.


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

JasonL said:


> I always find it funny that someone gets these animals, play's with them, then give the whole thing up after their first bite... what do these people expect??? If you plan on owning these large capable elapids, you have to plan on getting bitten one day...


 
I agree but I would say "plan on the possibility" of being bitten. I went nearly 40 years without a bite but I've been working on that score this year, so it is just as well midnight sees a new one start.
Happy and a safe new year to all


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## baxtor (Dec 31, 2008)

shlanger said:


> Greetings Steve (Baxtor)...Strange as it may seem, after both bites, the respective owners decided that the didnt want the snakes anymore and gave them over to me! Steve - this doesnt say much for the quality of the food item you were about to feed! (giggle, giggle!). All the best mate, hope you make a full recovery! Dale G.


 
Dale, No chance of me giving up the biter for something the bitee has stuffed up hey. and he didn't have any problem with your rodents in fact he scored big time. I was feeding him first before a couple of assists but after the bite I didn't bother with assists and he got their lunch as well.
steve


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## BlindSnake (Dec 31, 2008)

baxtor said:


> I have been in contact with and I am sending daily updates to a Doc at the avru. He was informed of the circumstances and timeline surrounding the bite and gave me advise accordingly.


 

Thats good, I was worried for you when I saw the pics, and Im not sure if I misread, but I had the impression that you had not sought ANY medical advice.

I think its great that you are sharing your bite on a site like this. It is both a bit of a wake up call for ven keepers, and a reality check for those contemplating keeping vens.

All the best, and hope your new year is less painful!

-Chris


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## eipper (Jan 1, 2009)

Dale,

I am just talking from my personal exp, The Mulga nips i Have had were not as bad as that bloody guttatus I reckon you know that particular snake lol.

Incidentely I am after more guttatus 

Cheers,
Scott


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## baxtor (Jan 5, 2009)

Follow-up pics at 9 days may not look much different but seems to be healing pretty well. Just starting to dry out and itch, but the finger tip is still feeling a little "dead" to the touch.


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## Scleropages (Jan 5, 2009)

baxtor said:


> Follow-up pics at 9 days may not look much different but seems to be healing pretty well. Just starting to dry out and itch, but the finger tip is still feeling a little "dead" to the touch.


 

That looks heaps better than the frist pic!


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## kel (Jan 5, 2009)

looking better but still better you than me


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## dragon170 (Jan 5, 2009)

It does look good hopefully the finger returns to normal. any idea how long that will take


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## wizz (Jan 5, 2009)

A long time...........


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## -Peter (Jan 5, 2009)

eipper said:


> Dale,
> 
> I am just talking from my personal exp, The Mulga nips i Have had were not as bad as that bloody guttatus I reckon you know that particular snake lol.
> 
> ...


Not looking that hard, I sent you a pm a couple of days ago.


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## BenReyn (Jan 5, 2009)

OHH!!
Thanks for sharing pics, i've seen anything like that before!


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## BlindSnake (Feb 1, 2009)

Just wondering if we could get an update on how the finger is progressing.. That tip looks pretty nasty in the last pics.

Really hope the improvement is continuing.

-Chris.


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## baxtor (Feb 1, 2009)

BlindSnake said:


> Just wondering if we could get an update on how the finger is progressing.. That tip looks pretty nasty in the last pics.
> 
> Really hope the improvement is continuing.
> 
> -Chris.


 
Looks real good now chris.
There is still an area on the side of the tip that lacks feeling to touch (the actual bite site) while the tip itself is extra sensitive, it's like no nerve endings in one spot and extras in the other spot but I am happy with the progress.
I have to say I thought long and hard before originally starting this thread because of the personal embarrassment at having been bitten in the way I was and because of the torrent of "abuse" and gratuitious advice that I expected to flow as a result.
How wrong I was, all the advice offered has been well founded and all the "get wells" have been very much appreciated, thank you all.


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## moosenoose (Feb 1, 2009)

Really good to see you've made a full recovery from it Baxtor


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## redbellybite (Feb 1, 2009)

well looking good now ..and to think years ago they wouldve just chopped ya finger off !............you couldve lost ya "FLIP THE BIRD"


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## krusty (Feb 1, 2009)

that photo is so cool,bet you will not be doing that again.


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## RedEyeGirl (Feb 1, 2009)

Ouch!


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## BlindSnake (Feb 2, 2009)

baxtor said:


> Looks real good now chris.
> There is still an area on the side of the tip that lacks feeling to touch (the actual bite site) while the tip itself is extra sensitive, it's like no nerve endings in one spot and extras in the other spot but I am happy with the progress.
> I have to say I thought long and hard before originally starting this thread because of the personal embarrassment at having been bitten in the way I was and because of the torrent of "abuse" and gratuitious advice that I expected to flow as a result.
> How wrong I was, all the advice offered has been well founded and all the "get wells" have been very much appreciated, thank you all.


 
Hi Baxtor,
Thanks for the update! Im so glad, your finger is looking SO much better!
Having suffered necrosis myself, I was really concerned for you, to be honest, I was expecting you to have at least some tissue loss. Im glad that you have made such a good recovery.. although you still have a ways to go, at leatst it looks as if your finger is out of danger.

The nerves will settle down, it just takes a long time.. I am still numb over the scarred graft area, but the hyper sensitivity around it is gone now. What you describe is pretty normal when you have had nerve and tissue damage.

Out of curiosity, do you get a cold/burning sensation all at the same time around the affected area? Its almost like you cant tell if its freezing or burning, its like both at once..
I found as the area healed more, I would get that sensation.. Its not really painful, more weird than anything! 

Hope you keep us posted on your recovery, looks like you still have some swelling, which I assume would hinder the use of the finger??

-Chris


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## Pandora Pythons (Feb 2, 2009)

Probably a stupid question that is easy to answer from all elapid owners and as I am still learning all about these guys....what is the difference between blue bellies and red bellies? The way I see it is that both are from the same family of black snake only a different coloured underside, so why is the venom so much more toxic in the blues? Is it just the yield produced or is something more complex?

Thanks guys and great to hear your okay baxtor


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 2, 2009)

One of the main, obvious differences (apart from colouration) is that Red Bellies are live bearing, and Blue Bellies lay eggs. This a contentious issue among some taxonomists, who cite this admittedly large difference as a major reason to split the rest of the black snakes from Pseudechis and make it a monotypic genus.


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## Pandora Pythons (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks Jonno

Strange reason as to why you would split them from the rest of the herd.

I'm still curious regarding the venom though?


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## baxtor (Feb 2, 2009)

BlindSnake said:


> Hi Baxtor,
> Thanks for the update! Im so glad, your finger is looking SO much better!
> Having suffered necrosis myself, I was really concerned for you, to be honest, I was expecting you to have at least some tissue loss. Im glad that you have made such a good recovery.. although you still have a ways to go, at leatst it looks as if your finger is out of danger.
> 
> ...


 
I can't say the feeling is as you describe chris (that might come later) but weird does cover it. Even the "dead" feeling area only seems to be so at the skin deep level. I can still feel deeper down so long as enough pressure is applied but it has a real sting to it. The weirdest feeling is the "filling with blood" feeling when the finger is used to any great extent. Use of the finger is more or less back to normal other than the nursing of it due to extra sensitivity in places.


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## Emmalicious (Feb 2, 2009)

Hmm all I can really say is OUCH!


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## 483996 (Feb 2, 2009)

Yeah ouch all rite looks nasty


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