# female apbt...



## vinny292 (May 13, 2012)

. do enybody have a male:lol:


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## cbw001 (May 13, 2012)

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## Frozenmouse (May 14, 2012)

Your dog looks like a Visla cross staffy any way , no true Rednose line dogs made it into the public hands in Australia most have visla or dogue de bordeaux in their heritage .
The Rednose line of dogs were an old southern American blood line that was superseded 50 years ago buy the more powerful Jeep and Colby line APBTs.
Just incase anyone wants to stud their dog to this guy you should know it is illegal to own an entire APBT in Victoria let alone breed.
Now why would you want to produce a litter of pups where most will end up euthanized under the new breed specific laws ?
Not on my high horse , i just have seen many innocent dogs being euthanized. 
I am a supporter of the breed and anti backyard breeding of any kind , if you want to breed dogs buy some pedigree papered animals and learn a bit about the breed, instead of breeding mutts , it is bogan backyard breeders like you that have put this breed on the restricted list , end of rant. there is some good reading on this site. Bull Breeds in Need ? there's no bad dogs, only bad owners


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## JrFear (May 14, 2012)

i thought it was illegal to own pittbulls in australia?


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## Mo Deville (May 14, 2012)

nice dog man, i love pitty's too but i gotta agree with frozenmouse, i would't be advertising ur beloved APBT on this forum or anywhere knowing what the outcome could be for it, not meaning anything bad by it man, i just hate it when then council put down dogs when there is nothing wrong with the individual animal.


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## Vixen (May 14, 2012)

It's one thing to own a pit bull ( they are lovely family dogs, i'm not disagreeing ) but it's another thing entirely to backyard breed, no matter what sort of dog you have.

I have NO tolerance for backyard breeders, what's the point? You are introducing more puppies into the world, that is already filled with animals needing good homes from PREVIOUS people like you, not thinking before they do something like this. Don't be so irresponsible. If you want another puppy, go and adopt one already in need of a home.

Would you be getting the your female hip, elbow, temperament tested, and whatever else pitbulls may be prone too? Are you making sure the male will have the same testing done? Getting all the puppies full vaccinated, micro chipped, and wormed? Do you know how much money goes into to properly rearing a litter?


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## vinny292 (May 14, 2012)

yes i under stand that vixen but i never said im a breeder


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## Red-Ink (May 14, 2012)

I thought it was illegal to breed APBTs in Vic now?


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## notechistiger (May 14, 2012)

Poor puppies. Now is not a good time to breeding anything remotely pit bull looking, especially not in Victoria.


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## Crystal..Discus (May 14, 2012)

The posts, age and location speaks for itself, really. 

The sad thing is he'll find someone.


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## Tsubakai (May 14, 2012)

Man you're hardcore. Frozenmouse is most likely petrified now and currently on the run to go into hiding interstate.


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## CrystalMoon (May 14, 2012)

I can understand People wanting to own a Pitty, they are a beautiful breed when *bred* and brought up properly. I feel it was very unkind to speak to FM in such a way, he was only trying to be helpful.


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## Frozenmouse (May 14, 2012)

They are not banned they are on the restricted breed list.


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## slim6y (May 14, 2012)

Is an APBT the dog equivalent of corn snakes?

I know very little about the subject - and only from what I have been told by others (and seen in the media, and they sure are over represented in the media) - but as a dog, are they social? Are they fun? Are they cute and cuddly? Are they able to work with other animals?

Ok - just for example, my dog, he'd be an able duck dog, capable of being a sheep dog (except he'd have needed training at a young age). He plays with the children, other dogs and is curious about other animals (but not vicious - he even made friends with a hedgehog). He curls up at night and sleeps with the girls in their bedroom and protects them. He just thinks he's one of us...

So this long winded point... What is it someone can see in an APBT? I'm not saying they're a bad dog - I'm just asking what's their point (coming from a very uneducated dog owner myself). 

And on top of all this - why breed them? 

Is it for financial reasons?

To start an APBT army?

Or to be a corn snake owner?

Sorry for the questions, they're not unreasonable though.


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## JrFear (May 14, 2012)

i believe in roman times and before that they used to use pitbulls and mastiffs as war dogs! suit them up in armor and spikes and send them on there enemy!
they also tryed doing the same in ww2 but failed horribly and then just rapped them in explosives and sent them at tanks!


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## Red-Ink (May 14, 2012)

slim6y said:


> Is an APBT the dog equivalent of corn snakes?
> 
> NO
> 
> ...




Hope that helps...


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## slim6y (May 14, 2012)

Red-Ink said:


> Hope that helps...



Thanks - it is true about the socialising - I've seen labs that are as evil as (insert any evil dog name here) - and that's because their owners didn't socialise them. And labs are a big dog!

But it does appear that pitbulls, staffies and mastifs have a shorter fuse than most dogs - personal experience only - though, a beautiful hunterway didn't tolerate my wee boy when he was just a puppy - so I guess it goes without saying - any dog can be unsocial... But I think some dog breeds just have a lower tolerance than others (even when trained).


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## gemrock2hot (May 14, 2012)

I dunno about Vic but in Qld they are a restricted breed and that means a $220 rego fee every year and have to be double micro chipped and have to be muzzled when out of their yard which I'm pretty sure has to be approved. Which if u ask me is stupid that are no different than any other dog. We have 2 pittys and I completely trust them with my 18 month old daughter she can take food off them jump on them and they love her. In America any dog can be used in a dog fight anything from poodles to labs.... I tend to find smaller dogs usually have the shorter fuse.... But that being said with the right training and attention any dog can be your best friend. I think I will always have a pitty as long as I live as they are amazing dogs


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## Python-Lover4lyf (May 14, 2012)

pittys are gorgeous animals and defs my fav dog.


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## Vixen (May 14, 2012)

Noone is saying they aren't nice dogs, it's the fact of irresponsible backyard breeding (whether pitbull or not)


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## Python-Lover4lyf (May 14, 2012)

Yeh Vixen i totally agree i was just saying pittys are gorgeous lol because they are


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## bk201 (May 14, 2012)

Here is a real animal, anything else is just some inbred mutt from a backyard breeder.


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## Frozenmouse (May 14, 2012)

oh dear we have wolf pack people on aps


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## MrSpike (May 15, 2012)

Sooooo much wrong information/history/advice in this thread it's actually quite sickening. No wonder there are so many misconceptions about these dogs in the public eye.


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## notechistiger (May 15, 2012)

I think people are really just concern for future puppies being bred in Victoria where the councils are specifically targeting dogs that look like pit bulls. No one wants to see dogs destroyed because someone makes a bad decision.


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## dannydee (May 15, 2012)

Anyone that wants to truly educate themselves about the dog behind the hype should read, 'THE WORKING PIT BULL' by Diane Jessup. The woman is a legend, she's been working with dogs for years and years. She is a true advocate for the breed and speaks the truth. The pit bull needs more people like her, because sadly, they are in big trouble.

Do this breed a favour and read this book. Afterwards you still may not like the breed but at least you will have a better understanding of it. 

Diane Jessup also has a website dedicated to the pit bull and here's the link Official Pit Bull Site of Diane Jessup

Too many people think they know this breed but in all actuality, few do.


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## Tsubakai (May 15, 2012)

JrFear said:


> i believe in roman times and before that they used to use pitbulls and mastiffs as war dogs! suit them up in armor and spikes and send them on there enemy!
> they also tryed doing the same in ww2 but failed horribly and then just rapped them in explosives and sent them at tanks!



Pitties didn't exist in roman times. Their war dogs were most likely mastiffs similar to the current day Neapolitan mastiff.


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## slim6y (May 15, 2012)

MrSpike said:


> Sooooo much wrong information/history/advice in this thread it's actually quite sickening. No wonder there are so many misconceptions about these dogs in the public eye.



Can you help me out here and tell me what information/history/advice in this thread that is quite sickening or leading to misconceptions?

The Roman one may have been answered above... But what else?


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## Frozenmouse (May 15, 2012)

MrSpike said:


> Sooooo much wrong information/history/advice in this thread it's actually quite sickening. No wonder there are so many misconceptions about these dogs in the public eye.


May be you could get a thicker collar for your dog , that might help with public misconceptions.


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## Mo Deville (May 15, 2012)

MrSpike said:


> Sooooo much wrong information/history/advice in this thread it's actually quite sickening. No wonder there are so many misconceptions about these dogs in the public eye.



nice looking dogs you got there!


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## MrSpike (May 15, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> May be you could get a thicker collar for your dog , that might help with public misconceptions.



Maybe you should learn yourself a few facts about the dog in the picture, the circumstances behind the picture and the brand of collar used before you run your mouth. There's nothing wrong with that brand of collar and at the time of that picture it was ideal for that dog to be in that exact collar, not necessarily anymore though. It's not as if she was being walked by a bunch of "sick ******s" with a spikey collar at the end of her lead being taught to bark at other peoples dog to be a 'full sick red nose pitty' like the rest of the idiots who own these dogs think they should be behaving. And FYI incase you didn't notice the dog WASN'T in a public place and was the only dog collared up in the yard at that time.

Slim - Red Ink's post is pretty spot on answering your questions, the only thing I don't agree with is the ROM comment but if I go into that topic the hippies would probably set their sights on me .

Frozenmouse's first comment re: the lines of the APBT/rednose is so false it isn't funny. Reminds me of this time I was at a dog show and an amstaff owner/shower/breeder from a certain kennel literally thought that a 'pitbull' was just a nick name given to any dog bred out of ridgeback x amstaff parents. He couldn't seem to comprehend the fact that his breed of choice actually stems from the true APBT itself. On that note thought pitbull is a very loose/broad term used by a lot of people, mainly the media to label dog attacks from dogs that have a certain type of appearance or a 'pitbull type'. Dogs that can fall under this category are anything from hunting mix's, boxer mix's, staffies (amstaff and english), english bull terrier etc etc.. the list goes on. Hence why a lot of people who know what they are on about refuse to just call their dogs "pitbulls" or "pittys".

Vixen's first post is a fair point and I see where she is coming (and I do agree re:backyard breeders of this breed of dog) from but her comment re: testing for health I don't agree with in the case of breeders breeding TRUE, papered working type APBT... in vinny's case, yeah it could be relevant as I doubt his dog is papered or it's bloodlines actually known (probably bought her as a mix of and of the chinaman, jeep, redboy, colby strains of dogs (or a mix of any of those dog lines).. but every idiot and their cousin moey sell dogs under this title. 

The thing people don't understand is that dogs like the APBT are 100% a working breed in their true form. They are bred for their working ability, gameness and TEMPRAMENT.. not their colour/size/weight. Much like most of the hunting breeds we have here in Aus today. Bularabs, NQ bullhound, bullygrey just to name a few. If you wan't a dog that looks good and will tire out after a walk and is probably just as affectionate as any staffy/APBT can be then get an amstaff. If you want a dog with true working ability, never ending courage and stamina (in the case of a well conditioned dog) that can be sociable with all other animals/people after adequate training then get an APBT. Certain things that these dogs have gone through in their history is what makes them such a suitable choice for a companion dog. And it's why many people choose these dogs as companion animals because, realistically a well bred, trained, socialised, exercised and fed APBT is the most versatile breed of dog today that is capable of doing literally ANYTHING (without trying to sound like I like the breed that much - which maybe be difficult for you to believe after this post haha).

I could literally go on about this topic for days but your best bet if you want to learn more about these dogs is buy the books and read like mentioned above. Jessup's book is OK but to get a true understanding of this breed any of the Stratton or Colby books are probably the best to read and ofcourse if you can bear it any of the books from wildside kennels about how they did things when they used to fight their dogs are a good isn't into the mind of the people that brought us this breed today.


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## slim6y (May 15, 2012)

Thanks Spike... I am learning plenty from this thread - still... "is the most versatile breed of dog today that is capable of doing literally ANYTHING" is a pretty big call...

PS - I'm not overly interested in learning about pittys, staffies or any of that 'kind' of breed. What I need to know I can learn from here 

I have got this idea of investing in a cattle prong - a male mastif tried attacking my dog when we were walking in the river, he escaped by jumping through the water (he can out swim the best of them) but then the mastif decided I was a better target....

The problem is I had no way to protect myself and the owner was screaming her head off at 500m away - the mastif didn't care he wanted a piece of me... But I stood my ground (while looking for a big stick) and it did back down... Luckily... there was no big stick...

Again - I understand it's the owners of these animals that are more at fault - I get that. But I could have not socialised my dog and he would never have had that temperament of that mastif... I guess if I gave him regular beatings eventually he'd 'Cujo' up - but in reality, even now, his fuse is so ridiculously long that he wouldn't know what to do if he actually got angry at a human or another dog. 

BTW - the cattle prong wasn't to attack a dog - to attack the stupid owners!


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## MrSpike (May 15, 2012)

I forgot to menton that there is a few posts in the thread I decided not to comment on because it probably would of doubled my last post in length.

As your your comment re: learning all you need to know right here, well just remember this is APS most of the stuff people post is crap 

As for the mastiff owner I understand where your coming from. The only time i've had an issue with mine or my friends dogs is when someone else's dog came up and started to attack us whilst my dog was on lead... yet I still got the blame for their dog starting a stink. It's the kind of territory that comes with these dogs - much like P platers, they are always at fault regardless of the actual situation..

Re: my comment on them being the most versatile breed, it still stands . Feel free to send me a PM and I can send you a number of links to different dogs doing different jobs in society today.

All owners of any breed of dog should know their dogs history and always carry a breaking stick or something along those lines to stop a dog fight. They do happen, and will happen to you regardless of the breed of dog you have so it's better to always be prepared.

God luck with your dog slim - I've seen a few pics and it is very cute


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## slim6y (May 15, 2012)

He's a big boy now... and still very playful....

Breaking stick... meh... Cattle prod... Electricity = fun! Plus... I live rural so cattle prods are a dime a dozen - can get one that'll send a dog the other way and flatten their owner as well - the mastiff freaked me a hell of a lot. I'm not sure of the legal requirements of cattle prods yet... I'm investigating. But as it happens, right now my lad and his girlfriend (a German Shepard) hang together - and she's one tough cookie, she's training him up and she has no troubles defending him either. So I just hang with her all the time 

But what you say all makes sense - and you know me - I don't take everything people on here say for truth - I generally investigate


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## TheCheshireCat (May 15, 2012)

I always love seeing people's "pitbull" pictures and having a giggle at them thinking they own actual pitbulls


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## Jeffa (May 15, 2012)

The original poster's post and attitude towards Frozenmouse's help regarding the breeding of this breed makes the overall opinion of this type of dog and owner very negative. 
Seems to be the sterotypical case unfortunatly for this breed.
As a typical person of the general public who does know little (and do not really care to) I appreciate Mr Spikes passion and info that he has provided. Cheers

If you want the overall breed to start getting a more positive feel to the general public, then you have to get rid of the Backyard, redneck breeders that want to only breed the most aggressive, strong and unsociable animal.

I know it has a certain stereotypical ring to it, but when I hear pit bull dogs mentioned I automatically think dangerous. If I found out that a owner had a dog that was a pitbull that moved next door I would automatically fear for my young childrens safety.

Again not having a dig, and I know I have a typical general uneducated attitude towards the breed, you just need to hear some good stories as opposed to the bad ones that this breed has attached itself to. 

I hope this breed starts getting a better reputation and the dodgy "I want the Angriest most visious dog" owners need to be phased out for this to happen.

Cheers


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## richardsc (May 15, 2012)

its not just the owners fault if dogs go skewif,any breed of dog can just snap,its a foolish person that thinks otherwise,how many he/she wouldnt hurt a fly dog attack stories are out there

only takes one bad moment for something to go wrong


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## Frozenmouse (May 15, 2012)

I haven't seen 1 real APBT in this thread yet , people have no idea what a real APBT looks like and if it has a "red nose" and you live in Australia you can dam sure bet your bottom dollar it aint a real APBT.


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## MrSpike (May 15, 2012)

So a papered GDBR dog from a line of Ch, Gr. ch, and ROM dogs bred right here in Aus isn't a APBT to you? Then what is, a blue amstaff?

Just throwing this out there aswell - I don't necesarily like the red with red-nose coloured type APBT like I posted in my last picture. And I would never intentionally seek to own a dog like that considering the stereotype that; that particular colour brings from a certain age bracket of males who have something to prove to god knows who. But there are sure as hell a-grade pure dogs with this look here in aus. As you should know frozenmouse, these dogs should never be bred physical appearance or colour - so it is very likely for ANY colour to appear in this breed. Some a lot rarer then others though.

Jeffa, I understand where your coming from and I don't disagree with what your saying. There are too many dogs out there these days bred to the 30-40kg+ wieght range that are red with a red nose that a lot of people seem to have and they label them as a red-nose, pitty etc... but I can assure you that one day if you do come across someone who does own a legitimate dog with a rock steady attitude and you get to experience what they have to offer to the full extent, you will never doubt a true APBT ever again. They are remarkable dogs and IMO worth their weight in gold.


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## Frozenmouse (May 15, 2012)

I own a double bred grandson of grand champion Jeep.


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## richardsc (May 15, 2012)

i wouldnt call them the most versatile dog,are they legitamittly even a working dog?


i would have thought something like a heeler would be more versatile


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## MrSpike (May 15, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> I own a double bred grandson of grand champion Jeep.



Better then a red nose.


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## Frozenmouse (May 15, 2012)

richardsc said:


> i wouldnt call them the most versatile dog,are they legitamittly even a working dog?
> 
> 
> i would have thought something like a heeler would be more versatile


Heelers are to narrow minded and stubborn to be as good as an al-rounder
APBts were bred as an al-rounder initially and excel at pretty much anything they are used for from tracking to herding to trials obedience there are dogs that are better than them at individual tasks of course but no dog comes close to their versatility.
My male dog is 14 years old and still does 5 kms full sprint next to the pushbike a 14 year old heeler would be lucky to still have use of it's back legs let alone still be alive.


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## Vixen (May 16, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> but no dog comes close to their versatility



I think a German Shepherd does! They are all the ultimate do everything kings.


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## Mo Deville (May 16, 2012)

Vixen said:


> I think a German Shepherd does! They are all the ultimate do everything kings.



dutch shepherds, they are the ultimate all roung dog IMO, never new they existed till my mate got one by accident, which lived with me most its life and OMG, its worth checking them out on youtube, originaly came from german shepherd x belgian shepherd from holland, the brains and agility on these dog are second to none, up ladders onto rooves of houses, insane guard dogs, family dog, police dog, farm dogs, they do it all, i like the short haired breed, easy grooming and they look kinda like hyena's to me which is cool, very clever extremely strong dogs and when im ready i'll be getting one. here's a pic from google, there a few different colours and coats mostly brindal, iv had a few dogs and these are top on my list, if anyone owns this breed please correct me if im wrong and more info would be awsome!


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## Frozenmouse (May 16, 2012)

Dutch shepherds are pretty awesome the malenois belgium shepherd is pretty much the same dog only a couple of kgs lighters here is some dutch shepherd puppies for sale in qld Dutch Shepherd Puppies for Sale from Dutch Shepherd breeders, Australia.


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## Mo Deville (May 16, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> Dutch shepherds are pretty awesome the malenois belgium shepherd is pretty much the same dog only a couple of kgs lighters here is some dutch shepherd puppies for sale in qld Dutch Shepherd Puppies for Sale from Dutch Shepherd breeders, Australia.



i'v reserched some breeders around in the past but won't be getting one just yet tho, i might even get one thats already trained around 12 months old or a bit older even and skip the the puppy stage, which is always a big bonus haha!


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## Frozenmouse (May 16, 2012)

That will save you some shoes , shepherds are destroyers until they mature , my APBT on the other hand was perfectly trained and well behaved from 8 weeks of age ,disclaimer i may be a bit one eyed.


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## Mo Deville (May 16, 2012)

hey frozenmouse got any pics of your APBT you can throw it up on man best friend thread?


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## disintegratus (May 18, 2012)

I can't be bothered ranting right now, so I'll summarise:

Pitbulls = awesome, gorgeous dogs, often touted (by people who know what they're on about) for their fantastic temperament and stability. Only problem is their weight for size/power. Try having one of those things run into your shins at full pelt. New shins anyone?

Media hype about pitbulls = Terrible, shameful disgrace, and is nothing more than uneducating the mindless masses. However, we live in hope that one day it will pass. GSDs made it through, as did the Rotties. Hopefully there are enough passionate people to see this through until it passes, and one day commonsense prevails.

Legislation resulting from said media hype = Even worse than the media hype. An abomination. May all those responsible have their throats torn out by raging Shih Tzu x Chihuahuas.

Backyard breeding = Bad. No matter the breed. Nuff said.


BK201: Those are the most god-awful examples of pitbulls I've ever seen

Slim6y: I think most of the problem is not that staffies, mastiffs, pitties etc have a "shorter fuse", it's that they a) have extremely powerful jaws, so when they do retaliate, it can be worse; and b) have a tendency to be more tenacious. They might not start something, but they'll sure as ****** finish it. That said, not every dog is like that, but the tendencies are there.

MrSpike: thank you for some commonsense. I have 3 large dogs, all "scary looking", so it's always our fault, even if we're just standing there minding our own business and not retaliating at all.

Jeffa: easier said than done. Out of all the media reports of "pitbull" attacks, I would like to know exactly how many of them were actually pitbulls. Hell, the dog that killed the little girl that started all this BS was never even proven to be a pitbull. Not only that, but all the information is there if people want to look for it; look at how under represented pit bulls are in the bite stats compaqred to how over represented they are in media. A while ago, I think it was last year sometime, A grandmother was killed by a labrador, but there was no front page new story about that because it wasn't a pitty. Breed specific legislation DOES NOT WORK. It's been proven in countless places many time. What has been proven to work is education. 

One of my dogs is a dobe x kelpie. Kelpies have a reputation of snapping and biting. Mine has the absolute best bite inhibition of any dog I've ever met, and that was not trained into him. He sprained his tail a couple of years ago, and was obviously in a lot of pain. When I was touching it to find the most painful part so I could put an ice pack on it, I accidentally bumped his tail, he snapped at me, and actually stopped with his mouth around my arm, teeth around 2mm from the skin. 


To the OP: Don't breed your dog. It's not pure, and besides that, most if not all of the puppies will end up dead, probably due to this ridiculous Bull ****** Legislation.

And will you look at that, I actually got some ranting in there after all


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## graffix (May 18, 2012)

Backyard breeding = Bad. No matter the breed. Nuff said.


What's the difference between someone wanting a litter of pups and the countless people breeding snakes, just because they can ?

I'm not singling you out and don't take it that way as there have been numerous coments saying the same thing.

As for the purity argument, any dog owner that doesn't own a Russian wolf has a hybrid, regardless of papers.

Some native of Mexico once said something along the lines of ..... There are no bad dogs, only bad dog owners ........... and he happens to love pit bulls. He goes by the name Cesar Milan, love him or hate him he has some idea what he's doing.

I own a GSP (a gun dog breed) and he is well trained, obedient and is fit as a fiddle, he also lives with 4 pet ducks and 3 cats. Point is it's not the breed, it's all in the education of the individual dog.


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## disintegratus (May 18, 2012)

I don't technically have a problem if someone has two dogs, breeds them just coz they want to and keeps all the pups. It's the part where they do it just to make a quick buck, or some other ridiculous reason that I have an issue with. I also don't agree with people breeding snakes (or anything else for that matter) just because they can. IMO it contributes nothing to the betterment of either species, and results only in more substandard animals being available.

As for purity, a dog is not a wolf, it is a domesticated animal, and that argument is like saying someone is only an Australian if they can trace their ancestry in its entirety back to the first transportations. I could be wrong, but I thought a breed is considered a breed when it breeds true to type, as such, if I get two pugs and breed them, they will all look like pugs. If however I get an APBT and a "pitbull" of unknown heritage, they will not all look like APBT. 

Although I disagree with a lot of what Cesar Milan does, I do agree with that quote, and commend his work with pit bulls.

I completely agree with you that it's not the breed but the individual dog, however, the fact of it is that different breeds are bred to do different things, and as such have different tendencies. GSP's were bred to be gun dogs, Dalmations were bred to run all day every day, poodles were bred to be water retrievers. Every dog will be different, but inherent breed traits are going to be there. Which is eactly why a Kelpie will generally be a super excited nutcase dog, whereas a Pulli is more content to chill all day.


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## Frozenmouse (May 18, 2012)

rottweilers have much more powerful jaws than pit bulls , the thing that governs jaw strength in canines is the size of their head full stop , wolf 500psi, rotweilers about 400psi, shepherds about 350psi pit bulls about 300 psi.
The only thing that makes pit bull potentially more dangerous than any breed is nothing physical. The thing that makes them dangerous is their willingness to carry out their owners will with no thought or hesitation , which once again comes back to the bad owner behind the dog, not the breed.


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## Pythoninfinite (May 18, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> rottweilers have much more powerful jaws than pit bulls , the thing that governs jaw strength in canines is the size of their head full stop , wolf 500psi, rotweilers about 400psi, shepherds about 350psi pit bulls about 300 psi.
> The only thing that makes pit bull potentially more dangerous than any breed is nothing physical. The thing that makes them dangerous is their willingness to carry out their owners will with no thought or hesitation , which once again comes back to the bad owner behind the dog, not the breed.



Have to absolutely agree with that last sentence. Over the years various dog varieties gain then lose popularity as fashions dictate - back in the early seventies Afghans were popular, but rarely seen now, then Dobes, then Rotties. I've had dogs for decades, they are all house dogs, allowed inside to share our lives, and we have NEVER had any temperament problems, starting with Dobermanns in the 70s (until about 4 years ago) and now we have 2 Jack Russells and a Staffy/Pitty thing which we rescued from a petshop in Kempsey about 4 years ago (the pet shop was run by a member of APS, and we didn't "rescue" from the shop, just from the potential of life in Kempsey if a local bought her...) She is the most outgoing, affectionate and demonstrative dog we've ever had, but immensely strong and quick - just a ball of muscle with a lovely personality! We consider every dog we've ever had to be a family member.

There is potential for any dog to go off the rails in the wrong hands - there are as many people who shouldn't have children for just the same reasons - dim-witted ego-driven idiots can do just as much damage to their child as they can to a dog, but it's only the poor dogs that get put down when the owners stuff up. In many cases the best solution would actually be the reverse...

Jamie


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## Mo Deville (May 18, 2012)

these are getting pretty popular, can't wait till mine arrives, in quarantine at the moment!!!:lol:


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