# 5 snakes in Australia - ID requested, please



## Schapie (Feb 25, 2014)

Hi all, 

Last november, I've encountered several snakes. Could you please help me identify these creatures? I tried to catch them on camera.

Not all of the pictures are showing the entire snake, but I hope it's clear enough to analyze. 

Myself I thought that these are 
1. Eastern Brown, 
2. Juvenile Eastern Brown (due the banded stripes, green with black) or a Coastal Taipan? 
3. Tiger Snake 
4. Tree Snake 
5. Copperhead or a Tiger snake (this last one we saw in the Blue Mountains by the way). 

Thanks very much in advance!
Regards, Schapie.

1.Spot: Apollo Bay, Otway NP (VIC)




2. Spot: Apollo Bay, Otway NP (VIC)




3. Spot: Great Ocean Road, Twelve Apostles (VIC)
.


4. Spot: Airlie Beach (QLD)
.


5. Spot: Blue Mountains (NSW)
.


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## AllThingsReptile (Feb 25, 2014)

if it was in victoria, it is not a taipan

1. is an Eastern Brown
3. is a Tiger Snake
5. is a Copperhead

2 and 4 are a bit hard to tell, my guess is 2 a smaller tiger snake, but i have no idea about 4..


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## Schapie (Feb 25, 2014)

Thanks very much!


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## richoman_3 (Feb 25, 2014)

lowlands copperhead
lowlands copperhead
tiger snake
4. where is the pic taken?
highlands copperhead


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## AllThingsReptile (Feb 25, 2014)

^i did not even think about the lowlands copperhead, pretty sure your right actually!


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## Dendrobates (Feb 25, 2014)

1, 2 & 5 are all Copperheads. 3 is a Tiger Snake, and 4 I can't tell from that photo.


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## Schapie (Feb 25, 2014)

4. is taken in Queensland, Airlie Beach. The snake was about 30 cm, very slim and had a fairly big head. 

About 1. It indeed looks like the copperhead mentioned, but I thought it was more slender with a dark head and dark eyed then the Copperhead (it hasn't got very bright pupils, just dark eyes)? 

Also, it chased me, whereas no.5 was just quietly enjoying his rest in the bush. Actually, you can't see me in this picture, but I almost stepped on nr. 1 and then it went in an s-shape and rose its head. My boyfriend warned me that there was a snake, just behind my leg. Luckily I wore gaiters. I kept still and then slowly moved away and then ran, as fast as I could. Because the snake was in between my boyfriend and me, I stood still, after running uphill and after chasing me a couple of meters (it had a hard time going up) the snake decided to leave.

I would be glad to if turns out to be a Copperhead, cause this snake scared me so much, but looking at its behaviour, I guess that it is an Eastern Brown. What do you think?


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## gus11 (Feb 25, 2014)

Maybe if you were a bit more specific about where these shots were taken, people could give more reliable ID's. saying there all taken during the day at the otways victoria but turns out number 5 is in the blue mountains and number 4 is from airlie beach (probably at night) makes it fairly difficult to assess with any reliability. Image 4 is not a boomslang, if its from airlie beach, probably a brown tree snake but no one could be confident based on the image.


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## Schapie (Feb 26, 2014)

gus11 said:


> Maybe if you were a bit more specific about where these shots were taken, people could give more reliable ID's. saying there all taken during the day at the otways victoria but turns out number 5 is in the blue mountains and number 4 is from airlie beach (probably at night) makes it fairly difficult to assess with any reliability. Image 4 is not a boomslang, if its from airlie beach, probably a brown tree snake but no one could be confident based on the image.



Hi, just added the spots. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks mate.


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## Asharee133 (Feb 26, 2014)

Going off the 'big head' and colouration, I'd say it's a brown tree snake.


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 26, 2014)

The accuracy of IDs are invariably related to the degree of detail provided, primarily photographic but also written. 
1. With tan colour with dark patch on head and nape and relatively slender build, it is either a juvenile Eastern Brown Snake (_Pseudonaja textilis_) or a Little Whip Snake (_Parasuta flagellum_) in that area. Given the black head patches go down the side of the head to the ventrals and that there appears to be a pale area across the nape, it is almost certainly a juvenile brown. This fits with the defensive behaviour described, although Little Whip Snakes are known to flatten the body and form tight coils when provoked. EBs have pale brown eye colour while LWs posses a black iris.
2. Appears robust for its length and banded in colour. Rare specimens of EBs retain some degree of juvenile banding. However, based on what I can make out of the colour and width of banding and the shape of the dorsal scales, I would say it is most likely a Tiger Snake (_Notechis scutatus_) but cannot guarantee it.
3. Definitely a Tiger Snake (_Notechis scutatus_) – distinctive colour pattern. 
4. As explained by *gus11* one cannot make a definitive call on image with such low resolution. It is thin and appears to have some degree of reddish brown banding. Being taken at night in the area indicated, assuming it was a snake, it could likely be a small Brown Tree Snake (_Boiga irregularis_). If this were the case then the head would have been wide and distinct from the neck, with very large cat-like eyes. Only you are in a position to make a call on it.
5. There are three possible contenders that are very dark in colour, can display dark edging to the ventral scales and occur in the Bathurst region. The Eastern Small-eyed Snake (_Crytophis nigrescens_) can display dark banding on the anterior edge of some of the ventrals, usually no so definite. It is also a nocturnal species. That leaves the Highlands Copper Head (_Austrelaps ramsayi_) and the Red-bellied Black Snake (_Pseudechis poryphyiacus_), which can both display black edging to the posterior edge of the ventrals, although more common in RBBs. Copperheads normally have the lower lateral rows of scales a light colour in contrast to their dorsal colour. In RBBs the reddish ventral pigment usually extends up onto the lower laterals as well, the exception being those individuals which lack the red pigment on their ventrals. Bottom line, it could be either a Copperhead or a RBB in my opinion.

Blue


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## Schapie (Feb 26, 2014)

Very insightful. Thanks very much for the extensive reply. Very much appreciated, Blue. Regards, Schapie.


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## richoman_3 (Feb 26, 2014)

Bluetongue1 said:


> The accuracy of IDs are invariably related to the degree of detail provided, primarily photographic but also written.
> 1. With tan colour with dark patch on head and nape and relatively slender build, it is either a juvenile Eastern Brown Snake (_Pseudonaja textilis_) or a Little Whip Snake (_Parasuta flagellum_) in that area. Given the black head patches go down the side of the head to the ventrals and that there appears to be a pale area across the nape, it is almost certainly a juvenile brown. This fits with the defensive behaviour described, although Little Whip Snakes are known to flatten the body and form tight coils when provoked. EBs have pale brown eye colour while LWs posses a black iris.
> 2. Appears robust for its length and banded in colour. Rare specimens of EBs retain some degree of juvenile banding. However, based on what I can make out of the colour and width of banding and the shape of the dorsal scales, I would say it is most likely a Tiger Snake (_Notechis scutatus_) but cannot guarantee it.
> 3. Definitely a Tiger Snake (_Notechis scutatus_) – distinctive colour pattern.
> ...



what the hell
1,2,5 and are all copperheads,
in that area browns and little whips do not occur. infact it is the EXACT OPPOSITE habitat to what they prefer.
and what kind of little whip is nearly the size of the path?


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## Dendrobates (Feb 26, 2014)

A good look at the body shape and scale structure of 1, 2 and 5 is all that's needed to say that they are all species of Copperhead (the first two being A. superbus, and the last being A. ramsayi). 
If you take picture 4 and blow it up, the head shape of a Brown Tree Snake can be seen.


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## bigguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Richoman. I agree 1 and 5 are copperheads for sure. 3 is definitely a tiger. 4 Cant say with any confidence but would agree it is more likely a Brown Tree. However, when I look at the pic of number 2 I can only see a partial body from the leaves, but it is most definitely striped at equal intervals so I agree with Blue. This is more likely another Tiger. No mater how I look at the pic I cannot for the love of me see a copperhead


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## richoman_3 (Feb 26, 2014)

Where are these stripes???


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## bigguy (Feb 26, 2014)

The stripes are easily seen on the body. I can see four on the small section of body seen through the leaves. They are a gun metal blue colour spaced at equal intervals.


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## richoman_3 (Feb 26, 2014)

They just look like light reflection
if they were bands they would be much more prominent


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## bigguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Tigers do not always have prominent banding. I disagree that they are light reflection. Each stripe is the same width, and each stripe is spaced the same distance from the next, and each stripe is the same colour. Just to much of a coincidence that they are shadows


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## Schapie (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks for you help, all. I still not know which snakes it exactly have been (there is a lot of wisdom here!). 

I did found this list of snakes in the Otway NP. There are 4 snake types living over there, e.g., Eastern/Mainland Tiger snake, Lowland Copperhead snake, White-lipped snake and the Eastern Brown snake. 

http://www.greatoceanwalk.asn.au/general_info/otway_fauna_list/Otways_fauna_lists09.pdf

To make up my mind:

No. 1 Still don't know. Difficult snake. As mentioned by the people in this tread, it must be either a Lowland Copperhead, an Eastern Brown snake or even an Eastern Tiger snake (as mentioned in this tread, there are Tiger snakes, which are copperhead look-a-likes). See also: Tiger Snake - Australian Museum I've submitted an ID request at the Museum of Vic and will keep u posted. 

No. 2 Eastern Tiger snake. It does has bands, green and dark ones and this pattern matches this snake perfectly. I would guess?

No.3. Tiger Snake indeed.

No. 4 Brown Tree snake.

No 5. Lowland Copperhead, looking at its buff shape, dark skin with yellowish belly and shy nature. Beautiful snake!

Thanks everyone, very much!


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## GBWhite (Feb 28, 2014)

Hi Schapie,

I wouldn't put any faith in getting a positive ID from The Australian Museum. Unlike Bigguy and myself the herp staff there hardly have any experience in the field and subsequently don't see many live snakes. In fact your best chance of positive ID's are right here on this forum. I know Bigguy personally and can tell you that he has been around this game here in Australia for a long, long time and like myself has seen plenty of all the species mentioned to make a positive ID (even from the poor quality of the pics...lol) and if your going to go by anyone on here he'd be the man.

For my 2 cents worth there are no Common Brown Snakes (P. textilis) in any of these pics. 

No.1 doesn't look anything like a Common Brown Snake (P textilis) or Little Whip Snake (D. flagellum). Going by the size, dorsal colouration and head pattern it is definitely 100% a Lowland Copperhead (A superbus). By the way these snakes can be rather defensive and will have a go at humans if they feel threatened. 

Given the dorsal colour and markings in No,2 and the banding as you described in No.3, I'm with Bob (Bigguy) as Tiger Snake (N. scutatus) for No's. 2 & 3. 

If you blow the picture up and also consider the location and time at night, No.4 definitely Brown Tree Snake (B irregularis). 

No.5 looks nothing like a Red Belled Black Snake or Small Eyed Snake, as you describe it has a "buff shape", dark dorsal scales and distinct yellow belly (ventral) scales and is 100% a Highland Copperhead (A. ramsayi). You don't get Lowland Copperheads in the NSW Blue Mountains.

Cheers,

George.


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## insitu (Feb 28, 2014)

george has been around since before snakes evolved


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## Schapie (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks guys.


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