# Asian honey bee is the new cane toad



## News Bot (Mar 2, 2011)

EXPERTS warn honey bee is simply a "cane toad with wings" and could one days threaten Australia's food supply.

*Published On:* 02-Mar-11 06:54 PM
*Source:* AAP via NEWS.com.au

*Go to Original Article*


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## slim6y (Mar 2, 2011)

Don't get me wrong, I can see it is a pest, especially to the European Honey Bee - but our 'entire food industry'?

Surely not a chance... Plus doesn't it add a new 'pollinator' to the mix...?

And to top this off - the European Honey Bee - by its very name is also an 'introduced pest' - maybe not for human consumption, but definitely for native flies, bees and other pollinators. Plus their sting!!!

They should have eradicated the Asian Honey Bee as soon as they could, for sure, but claiming these outrageous scenarios of our entire food industry - it's a bit much!


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## mattmc (Mar 2, 2011)

meh, its only an insect, what harm could it do? >.<


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## syeph8 (Mar 2, 2011)

mattmc said:


> meh, its only an insect, what harm could it do? >.<


 
Isn't the mosquito responsible for more deaths per year than any other animal on the planet?


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## grimbeny (Mar 2, 2011)

I think there is a goldilocks level that scientists have to use with these fear campaigns. If they use no fear no one will care but if they use too much they will appear over the top.


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## beeman (Mar 2, 2011)

slim6y said:


> Don't get me wrong, I can see it is a pest, especially to the European Honey Bee - but our 'entire food industry'?
> 
> Surely not a chance... Plus doesn't it add a new 'pollinator' to the mix...?
> 
> ...


 
Here we go, As a commercial beekeeper/pollinator here is a point of view that might make you change your uneducated statment.

Every 3 out of 4 mouth fulls of food is a Direct result of honeybee pollination!

Over 85% of the vegies you eat are dirived from a seed bank pollinated by Honeybees, 95% of the fruit you eat is a result of honeybee pollination.
The lucerne/clover crops that our livestock industry use in meat and fibre production are 100% reliant on honeybee pollination!

The spread of Apis Cerana is of concern as its a species thats extreemly invasive
and provides very little pollination value to the prodominatly European food crop
that we all eat!

It will cause the down turn of the Australian honey production/ pollination sector.
and as such the production of the food we all eat will deminish!


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## Australis (Mar 2, 2011)

Im curious if the problem bee in the article would be able to survive in the southern states, anyone know?


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## beeman (Mar 2, 2011)

Australis said:


> Im curious if the problem bee in the article would be able to survive in the southern states, anyone know?



Apis Cerana has the ability to adapt to most environments, In answer yes it will.


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## slim6y (Mar 2, 2011)

beeman said:


> Here we go, As a commercial beekeeper/pollinator here is a point of view that might make you change your uneducated statment.
> 
> Every 3 out of 4 mouth fulls of food is a Direct result of honeybee pollination!
> 
> ...


 
I don't call me uneducated - however - European Honey Bees were imported - (and into New Zealand to pollinate clover I hope you realise - so much for my low education). 

To add to this - The Asian Honey Bee is believed to also be a pollinator and a competitor.

To fill the gap - I have watched native bees out compete euro bees on every level... The Asian Honey Bee will also pollinate... As do native flies, hover flies, bees, some wasps, some butterflies, birds, bats etc etc etc...

I'm sorry, but the problem will NOT wipe out our *entire* food industry and it is not about an education level (of which I have gained sufficient enough I am sure). If it was, surely Asia where the Honey Bee is native would have incredible food shortages... would they not?

Now beeman - I respect what you're saying, but to be perfectly frank, where the honey bee is not able to WIPE OUT OUR ENTIRE FOOD INDUSTRY - the same way Cyclone Yasi didn't knock down every house in Mission Beach, Tully and Cardwell... 

I still find it funny we introduced a bee to rely on, and now another bee is going to take its place....

Feral honey bees were almost wiped out entirely because of the mite in North Island NZ - yet, some strange reason NZs food industry is still booming - in fact, so much so (remember clover is the main reason to introduce the european honey bee) that live stock is in record amounts. 

All I am saying is - it will NOT wipe out our entire food industry.

I must edit this post - because I was so busy reading wiki and other documentation on the net that I became really surprised at how many honey bees have actually been wiped out to things like pesticides, weather conditions and phenomena, other diseases, and finally pests like the mites. 

In one case they're saying honey bees have become almost absent in the US. 

"From 1972 to 2006, there was a dramatic reduction in the number of feral honey bees in the US, which are now almost absent.[3]"
Watanabe, M. (1994). "Pollination worries rise as honey bees decline". Science 265: 1170. doi:10.1126/science.265.5176.1170

After several years of research and concern, a team of scientists headed by Jerry Bromenshenk published a paper in October 2010 saying that a new DNA-based virus, invertebrate iridescent virus or IIV6, and the fungus nosema ceranae were found in every killed colony the group studied. In their study they found that neither agent alone seemed deadly, but a combination of the virus and N. ceraneae was always 100% fatal. Bromenshenk said it is not yet clear whether one condition weakens the bees enough to be finished off by the second, or whether they somehow compound the other’s destructive power. "They're co-factors, that’s all we can say at the moment. They’re both present in all these collapsed colonies."[5][6][7] (all references remain unchecked however).

And I must also add bumble bees are cool - and I've never seen them here.

German wasps are a pain - and they're highly invasive in NZ - but honey bees survived - although management is in place in beech forests.


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## beeman (Mar 3, 2011)

slim6y said:


> I don't call me uneducated - however - European Honey Bees were imported - (and into New Zealand to pollinate clover I hope you realise - so much for my low education).
> 
> To add to this - The Asian Honey Bee is believed to also be a pollinator and a competitor.
> 
> ...


 
LOL you are confusing a strain of bee Apis Cerana, with a virus Nosema Ceranae!

The early demise of the Honeybee that you quoted in the USA was from Varroa mite and by the way this is still a major problem with mites resistant to most chemicals! Throw Nosema Ceranae on top of it and it compounds thier issues!

Mate i have worked in the bee keeping industry both here in Australia and in the USA for over 25 years, Have worked with All the major pathagens and pests of the Honeybee. I have also been involved with queen bee improvement programs within this country.

Our own operation provideds in excess of 6000 pollination units anually and produces approx 90 tonnes of quality Australian honey anually so i think i am a little more in touch with how and what this incursion will do to this country.

Now on the bumble bee side you do realise they are endemic to Tassie! 
They are very invasive, they do sting (hurts a lot more than a normal sting)


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## slim6y (Mar 3, 2011)

Sorry beeman, I'm not sure I confused anything there... I was merely pointing out that other than Asian Honey Bees there were many other potential threats for the bee.

I am really concerned why you're so het up and wanting to flame me for suggesting something you know is true - it will NOT destroy our entire food industry.

For example... Sugar cane... How is that pollinated then? By magical fairies??? Nope... The wind (sorry about the tone, I'm feeling like you're talking down to me, so a hint of sarcasm should lighten the mood).

What about pineapples and bananas.... What about vanilla beans in the Daintree? 

What I am pointing out is the Asian Honey Bee could have a dramatic and devastating effect on food production - I've never denied that. But the sun will rise, chickens will lay eggs, sugar will make rum, and vanilla ice cream will be made with synthetic milk.

I absolutely agree that you're far more in touch with bees than I am... I never doubted your highest qualification - but for some reason you did doubt mine... and with just cause...

But I stand... and I rest my case... That we can still have rum even if the European Honey Bee is wiped off the face of this planet... But don't expect that rum to go nicely with a good crop of Lucerne... 

PS - thank god potatoes can be grown vegatatively - so long we don't get any blight... I'll enjoy chups (yes, I'm a kiwi) for as long as I live... And no need for bees!!!

PPS - I looked at my plate tonight to see what required bee pollination... I had nachos... We had corn chips (made of corn and some oil I guess - we'll say canola), we had chicken, chillies, chilli beans, corn, tomato salsa (we'll just call it tomatoes)... 

Starting with corn... Wind pollinated. 
Canola - I think that requires the bees... So we'd have to change to rice bran oil in the futurel.
Chicken - Without saying they could live entirely without pollinated foods - which they could - we'll say they needed bees.
Chillies require insect pollination - but as far as I am aware it's not bee exclusive - I think chillies could survive
Tomatoes - Pretty convinced they require no insect as a vector for pollination - though in their native lands they did - but cultivation has required less and less.

Again, I just reiterate - although completely disastrous if the euro bee was wiped out, it would not stop me from eating nachos!!!


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## Markus (Mar 10, 2011)

*Another issue for growers*

Im a registered beekeeper too, although only couple of hives and just starting out, but ive been following this debate/argument both in Aus and overseas as best I can. Without getting defensive or abusive, id like to make a couple of points.

Theres really two issues here as I see it,

1/ the Asian bees

2/ the mites and other problems they bring with them.

If im not mistaken, I believe at this stage we are still free of varoa mites in Aus, so we may have dodged the bullet there so far, but asian bees are host to these mites, and having asian bees around would vastly increase the chances of mites entering Aus.

As far as the bees go (from what ive read and been told), asian bees are not as good pollinators as european bees and more likely to rob other hives(spreading disease in the process).

While neither of these things is really going to make us starve, as you make the comparison to the US, id point out they now have a billion dollar bee industry soley to pollinate agricultural crops. THIS COST GETS PASSED ON to the consmer in the end, so although the statements made are probably not totaly acurate and exagerate (as usual in the press) they do make a point. *

Maybe we could agree on this(following) statement of the reality of this incursion?

"It is understood that if Asian Bees and veroa mites become established in Austraila we too will need to actively manage bees to pollinate crops, therby adding another expense to food production in this country, and further difficulties to primary producers."

I dont think anyone is arguing that our European bees arnt introduced, but allowing a species to enter that is known to be problematic and destructive is a diferent matter. 

The millions it costs to stop them now balanced against the many more millions in future years and the impacts and practicalities of the situation is what the debate and the article in question is all about. At this stage there are many areas of research going into the variuous problems facing bees at the moment, and not that many answers as yet, so Id rather see the Asian bees kept at bay for a few years longer yet, so we can at least know what the results are likely to be and come up with a management plan. But rarely do we get this choice in the real world.


* Im refering here specifically about the practice in the US of producers paying bee keepers to manage hives for pollination purposes. Often, these hives produce much less honey, or honey that is not suitable for consumption. There are often othen problems associatted with keeping bees for pollination, including much higher exposure to chemicals, that lead to greater effort and cost involved.


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## slim6y (Mar 10, 2011)

That was a good read, thanks Markus.

Can I ask - is there evidence that the bee brought in the mites?

If not, and there's lets say an establishing colony, then they could effectively be free of the mite??? Therefore they'd just become a pollinator and competitor rather than a disease spreader?

Or is there a risk other diseases may be associated with the Asian Honey Bee?

If that was the case then the risk is gained when the bees enter into another hive of the European Honey Bee and they infect other bees with this disease.

But tell me - do the mites kill off the Asian Honey Bee the same way it does to the European Honey Bee???

It does seem a shame to see the bee entering Australia - I recall many incidences of moths (painted apple moth) being accidentally introduced into NZ and the consequences are deemed to be disastrous - yet, we still seem to have the world's best apples in NZ (sorry Aussies, but apples here just don't quite reach the cut of a crisp NZer).


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

I would assume that the Asian honey bee would be better at pollinating Asian native plants and the European better at pollinating European plants but from reading up I can see that this is not the case. What I would like to see more of would be Australian honey bees no stinger, native (so more native plants yay).


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## Dannyboi (Mar 10, 2011)

Beeman have you any experience with native bees?


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## beeman (Mar 10, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Beeman have you any experience with native bees?


 
Yes i do have a limited experience with them !

I had typed a more detailed reply to the quiries above but as usual this [email protected]#$%ing site logged me out and i lost it all.


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