# Does anyone have Australian python morphs??



## Hopper (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi everyone i was wondering if anyone keeps Australian python morphs and if you do can you put some pics up thanks.


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## miley_take (Sep 16, 2008)

i'd be careful...this will spark another debate


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

miley_take said:


> i'd be careful...this will spark another debate


 
If you dont keep them or dont have pics, just dont reply...? easy...


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## caustichumor (Sep 16, 2008)

albinos, striped, hypomelanistic, hypermelanistic, they are all commonly posted on this forum....


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## Rocky (Sep 16, 2008)

hallie said:


> If you dont keep them or dont have pics, just dont reply...? easy...



Well that was hypocritical.


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## antaresia_boy (Sep 16, 2008)

i doubt people who do keep them are going to commit the social suicide that openly owning morphs inevitably leads to

Jamie


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

Rocky said:


> Well that was hypocritical.


 
Whats hypocritical about it matey?


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## antaresia_boy (Sep 16, 2008)

if you mean the types of morphs caustic is talking about, thats a dif matter. i have no problems with people keeping hybrids, but i wouldn't do it myself.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hallie*
> 
> 
> ...


 
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## fuegan13 (Sep 16, 2008)

antaresia_boy said:


> i doubt people who do keep them are going to commit the social suicide that openly owning morphs inevitably leads to
> 
> Jamie



i fail to see how it is committing social suicide ?? many morphs are highly sought after, eg. albinoes


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## Australis (Sep 16, 2008)

Theres no social suicide in owning morphs of Australian Pythons...

I mean some of the most sort after animals in this country 
are python "morphs" albinos and the like...


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## fuegan13 (Sep 16, 2008)

caustichumor said:


> albinos, striped, hypomelanistic, hypermelanistic, they are all commonly posted on this forum....



missed this post. all these morphs are highly sought after and the breeders who produce them are usually highly respected


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## Rocky (Sep 16, 2008)

hallie said:


> Whats hypocritical about it matey?




Well you said don't if you don't have any or have pictures don't reply, and what you said didn't say anything about owning them or having pictures..


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## antaresia_boy (Sep 16, 2008)

like i said. if it is the morphs that caustic is reffering to it is a different matter to, say a jungle crossed with a bredli. I'm not sure which sort of morph hopper is talking about, but i'm just saying that I doubt people will admit to having cross-breeds (if that is what is being referred to). it would be good if hopper could clear that up lol. save the arguments.

Jamie


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## junglepython2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Morphs and hybrids are totally different things.


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## fuegan13 (Sep 16, 2008)

antaresia_boy said:


> like i said. if it is the morphs that caustic is reffering to it is a different matter to, say a jungle crossed with a bredli. I'm not sure which sort of morph hopper is talking about, but i'm just saying that I doubt people will admit to having cross-breeds (if that is what is being referred to). it would be good if hopper could clear that up lol. save the arguments.
> 
> Jamie



some overseas breeders may call crossbreeds morphs, but i doubt you will find many aussies who would. i think the OP would have assumed that.


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

Rocky said:


> Well you said don't if you don't have any or have pictures don't reply, and what you said didn't say anything about owning them or having pictures..


 
The comment was to miley about starting a debate boss.
I own a hypo bredli if if keeps ya on topic Rock.
Here she is...cheers mate.


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## cooper123 (Sep 16, 2008)

i dont see y every time some1 says hybrid every1 acts like they just started a war if u dont like them dont get them not ur disition(?)


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## miley_take (Sep 16, 2008)

I wasn't talking about me starting a debate, I was saying that because the last couple of threads that have started like this have turned into debates and name calling fights....I myself have a hypo bredli, it depends on how you classify morphs


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## miley_take (Sep 16, 2008)

cooper123 said:


> i dont see y every time some1 says hybrid every1 acts like they just started a war if u dont like them dont get them not ur disition(?)


 

which is what i meant by my first comment...sorry if it came off different than what I meant it to mean


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## Dave (Sep 16, 2008)

Why does everyone scream hybrids? Hybrids and MORPHS are two different things... you would think people would know things like this..


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 16, 2008)

Bandwagon


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2008)

I think it is time to suggest you use the search function!


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## antaresia_boy (Sep 16, 2008)

I only replied as if he were talking about hybrids because of miley's first comment about the hybrid arguments blah de blah. I have NO problem with morphs whatsoever (althought there prices are a little steep in most cases). I have no problems with people owning hybrids either, that's their choice.
Sorry if i worded my earlier posts incorrectly, i didn't mean to start any arguments or anything.

Jamie


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## nos001 (Sep 16, 2008)

i am personally interested in morphs and would love to find one inperticular known as a red hypo jaguar coastal carpet like the ones sold in the states my serpentsonline.com does anyone else find it strange that these different types of australian snakes are hardest to get right here in australia:lol:


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## Australis (Sep 16, 2008)

Red Hypo ... the things of legend eh?


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## TrueBlue (Sep 16, 2008)

Heres a couple of naturally occuring morphs.
First pic albino olives, the next few are hypo coastal carpets,


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## ravan (Sep 16, 2008)

oh i really like your coastal carpet hypo! just out of interest, how much did you pay for it??


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## TrueBlue (Sep 16, 2008)

One more of a gravid albino olive, love this pic, its such a classic pose.


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## TrueBlue (Sep 16, 2008)

raven,- nothing, i bred them.
They are three different animals.


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## Renagade (Sep 16, 2008)

Nice work true blue. far out the childish bickering on this site really kills it sometimes. what about the stiped coastals which pop up quite often on this site, they are absolute rippers. how old are those hypo coastals? they've never really appealed to me, but the 3rd pic is awesome.


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## ravan (Sep 16, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> raven,- nothing, i bred them..


oh okay, nice work! they're very pretty


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## darkangel (Sep 16, 2008)

i have owned hybrids (don't at the moment ) but plan on buying a particular hybrid if they are bred again this season. i don't plan on breeding with it just want it as a pet cos i think they are absolutely gorgeous!


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## TrueBlue (Sep 16, 2008)

Ranagade,- They are breeding this year, should have a couple or more clutches from them this season.


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

Beautiful olives TB...


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## Hopper (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks everyone hear is some pics of some i like hope you like


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## Perko (Sep 16, 2008)

That pic of the gravid Albino Olive is a pearler !!!
Good work TB.


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## zobo (Sep 16, 2008)

to try and help keep it on topic here are some different snakes I have. Striped coastals and a grey coastal. Hope to prove the lineage soon.
jas


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2008)

These are the morphs of the future- this years Albino Olive eggs


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## pete12 (Sep 16, 2008)

wokka said:


> These are the morphs of the future- this years Albino Olive eggs



is it just me or is the egg in the far left corner abnormally shaped


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## Den from Den Pythons (Sep 16, 2008)

Good job Warwick, will be tops to see more Albino olives on the market!


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

wokka said:


> These are the morphs of the future- this years Albino Olive eggs


 
Sorry if its a dumb question wokka, but how many of those eggs would you expect to be albinos themselves? Just curious...


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2008)

There are a variety of shapes and sizes in the eggs pictured . All those eggs were laid naturally. The last two eggs of the 17 in the clutch had to be assisted by massaging.


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2008)

If they came from an albino to albino mating they would all be albino hatchoes. If they came from an albino to het mating half will be albino hatchoes and half will be het hatchoes(look normal but carrying the albino gene)


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## hallie (Sep 16, 2008)

Cool, thanx mate. All the best with them...


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## Hopper (Sep 16, 2008)

Hey wokka how much will you be selling the albino olives for?


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## byby_v8 (Sep 16, 2008)

i found these on an american site for sale for $250 and they said they were diamond x jungle! i think they look cool.


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2008)

I am going to experiment a bit this year with prices to appeal to both ends of the market. I'll will offer them to experieced keepers straight out of the egg for 17K a pair but I imagine most would prefer them feeding at 24k apair or 29k at 500gram Liveweight or 32k at 1kg LW.


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## darkangel (Sep 16, 2008)

love that 2nd pic hopper! if u ever wanna sell it let me know!!!


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## MrBredli (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't know wokka, i don't know many people who would prefer to pay an extra $7000 simply for them to be feeding. Certainly, most would prefer them feeding prior to purchase, but i just can't see how it is worth an extra $7000? Olives aren't that hard to get going, nothing compared to BHP's...

Also, given the option, i believe most would prefer to buy them as hatchies (feeding or non-feeding) and raise them up themselves, rather than pay another few grand to get them up to a certain weight. Why would they when they can do it themselves at minimal cost? Granted, people may be willing to buy a pair at 1kg for $32k, but i don't think you will find anyone here now that will say "No, thanks i won't take a non-feeding pair for $17k, but get back to me in 6 months when they're 1kg and i'll pay you $32k." If a 1kg pair @ $32k is all that is on the market then yes they'll sell, but if given the option to buy them cheaper beforehand as younger animals (especially with such a large difference in price), i'm sure most would be happy to take the younger animals, and use the spare cash to buy a GTP or something.


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## dickyknee (Sep 16, 2008)

ill take mine out of the egg ....


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## Renagade (Sep 16, 2008)

wokka said:


> I am going to experiment a bit this year with prices to appeal to both ends of the market. I'll will offer them to experieced keepers straight out of the egg for 17K a pair but I imagine most would prefer them feeding at 24k apair or 29k at 500gram Liveweight or 32k at 1kg LW.


 
i'd prefer to feed a small village of starving 3rd world children.


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## mebebrian (Sep 17, 2008)

The most stunning olive i've seen so far! by a long way. But what the hell are you feeding them? Dipping the pinkies in gold dust before each feed?


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## wokka (Sep 17, 2008)

My background is farming. Ther are lots of things to consider in buying livestock. Using cows as an example the price may vary from hundreds of dollars, to hundreds of thousands of dollars. I believe as supply increases the reptile market will distinguish between different qualities of animals. Well grown animals will command a premium over those which are a little slower of the mark. Better grown animals generally have earlier breeding potential and higher disease tolerance.Personally I would rather pay a bit more to a person who gives backup advice and guidance, but many keepers dont need that which is why I have offerred the choices. If they all sell straight out of the egg that's great. I am just seeing what the market wants.


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## Camo (Sep 17, 2008)

True blue why do you always have to put pictures of your Albino olives up. Now i want one even more. I will have to ask the money manager. I am sure she will say no. 

Cameron


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## Retic (Sep 17, 2008)

To be honest I can't see many people willing to pay $7000 extra just to have a snake feeding. A feeding GTP costs maybe $500 extra, I can't see the extra value really.


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## Vixen (Sep 17, 2008)

8 month old hypo coastal.


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## Colin (Sep 17, 2008)

boa said:


> To be honest I can't see many people willing to pay $7000 extra just to have a snake feeding. A feeding GTP costs maybe $500 extra, I can't see the extra value really.



thats what I was thinking too Ash.


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## Tatelina (Sep 17, 2008)

Camo said:


> True blue why do you always have to put pictures of your Albino olives up. Now i want one even more. *I will have to ask the money manager. I am sure she will say no*.



Hahahahaha!! That's what it's like over here as well.  Except I'm not the manager! 
I think I need to never look at albino olives again...too tempting. Regardless of whether it's fresh out of the egg or established.


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## Tatelina (Sep 17, 2008)

Hopper said:


> Thanks everyone hear is some pics of some i like hope you like



Where on EARTH did you get that striped bredli?!!


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## caustichumor (Sep 17, 2008)

I think the striped Bredli live in America, with the zebras and jags...


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## Wench (Sep 17, 2008)

that light jungle carpet morph is purdy 
and in relation to buying albino's for a certain price, if he wants to sell it for that price then thats his choice yeah? 
i used to buy/sell cars and if u find someone whos gonna pay what ur sellin it for, who cares ^_^


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## Hopper (Sep 17, 2008)

Hey guys i never said the snakes that i put up were mine there of American websites and there the ones i like.
Do you think there will ever be a choice like this on the australian market??


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## sweetangel (Sep 17, 2008)

i dont think snakes like those morphs will be big in oz.
i mean sure they look good, but then they ruin the pure lines and things get crossed and it all ends up in one big mess!!
i mean i would love to have one.... but yeah just dont think its the thing here


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## wokka (Sep 17, 2008)

boa said:


> To be honest I can't see many people willing to pay $7000 extra just to have a snake feeding. A feeding GTP costs maybe $500 extra, I can't see the extra value really.



Perhaps you'd feel better getting a $7000 discount for feeding your own snake eh?


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## waruikazi (Sep 17, 2008)

sweetangel said:


> i dont think snakes like those morphs will be big in oz.
> i mean sure they look good, but then they ruin the pure lines and things get crossed and it all ends up in one big mess!!
> i mean i would love to have one.... but yeah just dont think its the thing here



And because we can't legally import them . 

I think they'll be pretty big if they ever occur here, look at how the albino gene is going. Exactly the same as the jag is going O/S.


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## caustichumor (Sep 17, 2008)

There is a couple of breeders with some interesting projects in Australia. Some of the reduced pattern coastals bred in Australia are every bit as good to look at as jags, And who was it that bred the almost zebra patterned MD a season or two ago? (fingers crossed it proves genetic). Some of the striped animals (coastals, jungles) are quite amazing as well. Axanthic BHP's as well as the line of spotted woma's solar 17 has started. Albino Olives and Darwins, (and the possibility of the hypermelanistic Darwins in the mix as well,)who know's what could happen there? then there is every other breeder pairing up animals to expand on any genetic trait and you have a big morph future in Australia.


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## waikare (Sep 17, 2008)

well if u ask me all the top breeders in oz r probaly crossing things anyway as they have the stock and money and if it dont work out hey they can just get rid of it


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## caustichumor (Sep 17, 2008)

And what are you basing that opinion on waikare?


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## waikare (Sep 17, 2008)

well if u have lots of snakes and excess ones tht u cant sell and there is a chance u cld make the next big money earner wat wld u do u cld experiment and no one wld even no


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## Perko (Sep 17, 2008)

waikare said:


> well if u have lots of snakes and excess ones tht u cant sell and there is a chance u cld make the next big money earner wat wld u do u cld experiment and no one wld even no


 

Are you sure your 32 ?????


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## hallie (Sep 17, 2008)

waikare said:


> well if u have lots of snakes and excess ones tht u cant sell and there is a chance u cld make the next big money earner wat wld u do u cld experiment and no one wld even no


 
What the???:shock:


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## waikare (Sep 17, 2008)

yeh im sure y wldnt u try look at the morphs in the us


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## notechistiger (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm confused. Waikare, WHAT are you trying to say?


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## BROWNS (Sep 17, 2008)

Well if you're sure you're 32 you should at least be able to write correctly instead of this new text language,sorry to be pedantic but it's really annoying especially coming from an adult and not a teenager!!!

I'm sure there's a few morphs that will surface sooner or later however we have already got quite a nice variety of pure morphs in the hobby now.

Here's a pic of my male albino Darwin,he's getting ligher with each shed rather than brighter,I think he's a gorgeous looking snake and so placid too...enjoy!!Also thought I'd add a tri striped/tiger bw jungle from indicus lineage!!


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## Perko (Sep 17, 2008)

Stunning snakes Browns.


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## Jungle_Freak (Sep 17, 2008)

Heres a few of my Tiger striped pattern jungles 
When i breed these together in the future i am expecting super tiger jungles with even more stripes
cheers Roger


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## Renagade (Sep 18, 2008)

i'm sorry, they are beautiful snakes, but i'd just feel a bit stupid paying that much for a freak snake to look at when people are dieing of starvation, or maleria or aids or religious extemeamism. i know i've been pushing a point, and i know this is a herp forum, and dont get me wrong i think that they are beautiful snakes, but i feel my comments/pics have been glazed over to kiss the cheek of popular line breeders when $17k (at least) could save so much suffering else ware. *steps down from soap box and scrunches face at shocking spelling*. i just feel it is a tat rediculous that anybody would pay that much for something that may or may not even be eating let alone be a few years off breeding to make livelyhood out of breeding. maybe i am from a different demographic that you guys who have them or say "i wouldn't think twice if i had the money' or maybe i'm just missing something. i cant believe i've never herd such a topical argument on 'pure' aboriginies. sometimes i thing this forum needs to take a step back and look at a slightly bigger picture.
ren


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## gold&black... (Sep 18, 2008)

Wow JF, those are fantastic Super Stripes for now.... Would really like to see that they produce.....

Lol Ren, have u ever had a situation where some one says something and it really makes sense to you??? Might have been the simplest statement but, still makes all the sense and u remember it all the time.... Guess what, what u just said did exactly that for me.... But then again, there are the rich the needy (Sellers) and the poor.... Each one has his own needs to satisfy... Saying that, I am a hypocrite cos some of the rates I have paid for the snakes I own are almost ridiculous.... Not trying to rub anyone on the wrong side... Just had to say what I thought..... Anyway, some fantastic animals guys..... Keep the pics coming...


regards


G/B........


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## melgalea (Sep 18, 2008)

i think wokkas prices are pretty reasonable. i have had almost 7 years experience with snakes, and i would still rather pay an extra 7 grand for a feeding one. at the end of the day, they are extremely sought after animals. and there are alot of people out there with alot of money to spend. and prices arnt an option. either way, i think his animals would sell like hot cakes. 
regards
mel.


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## olivehydra (Sep 18, 2008)

Renagade said:


> i'm sorry, they are beautiful snakes, but i'd just feel a bit stupid paying that much for a freak snake to look at when people are dieing of starvation, or maleria or aids or religious extemeamism. i know i've been pushing a point, and i know this is a herp forum, and dont get me wrong i think that they are beautiful snakes, but i feel my comments/pics have been glazed over to kiss the cheek of popular line breeders when $17k (at least) could save so much suffering else ware. *steps down from soap box and scrunches face at shocking spelling*. i just feel it is a tat rediculous that anybody would pay that much for something that may or may not even be eating let alone be a few years off breeding to make livelyhood out of breeding. maybe i am from a different demographic that you guys who have them or say "i wouldn't think twice if i had the money' or maybe i'm just missing something. i cant believe i've never herd such a topical argument on 'pure' aboriginies. sometimes i thing this forum needs to take a step back and look at a slightly bigger picture.
> ren



I think your heart might be in the right place but perhaps you might consider another view............... $17K buys a very cheap new car that might be worth $10k a day after you buy it. What if you spent that same $17K on a snake, breed it, and put all the proceeds from offspring toward the charity of your choice???
You might also consider that there is only ONE environmental problem in the world and that is the human population. If more people spent their days glued to a computer screen, creaming their pants over the latest super stipe starburst hypo snake, there would be less real human interaction going on, and so less gravid female humans - also helping our environment  ??


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## redbellybite (Sep 18, 2008)

olivehydra said:


> I think your heart might be in the right place but perhaps you might consider another view............... $17K buys a very cheap new car that might be worth $10k a day after you buy it. What if you spent that same $17K on a snake, breed it, and put all the proceeds from offspring toward the charity of your choice???
> You might also consider that there is only ONE environmental problem in the world and that is the human population. If more people spent their days glued to a computer screen, creaming their pants over the latest super stipe starburst hypo snake, there would be less real human interaction going on, and so less gravid female humans - also helping our environment  ??


 :evil: typical cave man comment .cause its all the females fault as to why she is now pregnant with some losers off spring now isnt it


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## caustichumor (Sep 18, 2008)

Renegade, it's a hobby, not many hobbies are cheap.. If you want to rant do so at pharmacutical companies, CEO's of large corporations, and elite athletes and Actors. Or perhaps you can assasinate a few African Despots to help the poor and suffering. I don't think you will find too many people on here sit in their mansions sipping dom, eating caviar and breed pythons to pay for it all.
Most of the members on this forum are passionate about Australian animals, and they save and go without little luxuries to afford these amazing yet expensive animals.


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## olivehydra (Sep 18, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> :evil: typical cave man comment .cause its all the females fault as to why she is now pregnant with some losers off spring now isnt it



Firstly I was not suggesting it was anyones fault, male or female. It is a shared human problem. All I said, was that it was the female who becomes pregnant. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise I would love to hear it.
I could suggest that your comment is typical of someone who is ignorant but as I dont know you I wouldnt dare. 
What I will suggest is you do some study into human population control. 
For what its worth I believe in equal responsibility between males and females in regard to achieving a negative population growth.


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## Perko (Sep 18, 2008)

Great looking stripes Roger


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## Jungle_Freak (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks for the positive feed back Craig and G&B 
cheers 
Roger


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## redbellybite (Sep 19, 2008)

olivehydra said:


> Firstly I was not suggesting it was anyones fault, male or female. It is a shared human problem. All I said, was that it was the female who becomes pregnant. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise I would love to hear it.
> I could suggest that your comment is typical of someone who is ignorant but as I dont know you I wouldnt dare.
> What I will suggest is you do some study into human population control.
> For what its worth I believe in equal responsibility between males and females in regard to achieving a negative population growth.


 IRONIC isnt it .in AUSTRALIA we get people from over seas to come and migrate here, because we dont have enough AUSTRALIANS populating our own country .....maybe if you get off the computor and copulate with a female species and get her gravid ....we may not need to get other non -species to come to our country and take up permanant residence.....


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## TrueBlue (Sep 19, 2008)

Australia is a mulit-cultural country, we all came from somewhere in the beginning.
Aboriginals are the only true aussies.


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## redbellybite (Sep 19, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> Australia is a mulit-cultural country, we all came from somewhere in the beginning.
> Aboriginals are the only true aussies.


 I agree true with you, my point was .......he claimed there was a "too many humans in the world" and there fore if people were to use up body fluids looking at morphs on the comp etc we wouldnt have a breeding problem ,was stating that in OZ we are not getting enough to populate and so our migrant numbers are up high due to this ....if more aussies did the doo dah, like you true, we wouldnt need to rely on overseas to do it ......i realise we have multi cultural people in our country and have no problems with that .as long as you become an AUSTRALIAN citizen if you were not born here all is good but I get pissed off that some claim to live here but will never become a citizen thats aload of crap in my books ...dont like it enough to become a citizen then GO BACK HOME TO YOUR PLACE OF BIRTH.....


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## wokka (Sep 19, 2008)

Perhaps a little off topic; How does breeding more Australians address the worlds overpopulation problem?


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## redbellybite (Sep 19, 2008)

it doesnt ,but why cant we populate our own country instead of relying on overseas masses to inhibit a country that when it comes to the crunch most wouldnt have AUSTRALIAS back .......thats my gripe .i welcome a vast variety and have no problems with that .....but like i said come here for a holiday most welcome ,come here as a permanant residence then become a citizen or go back to where you came from.and as far as the overseas over population its been going on since adam and it always will and I have had a gutful feeling guilty of the wonderful country I live in ,to what poor conditions they live in..while we give handouts their own government sits back and doesnt and wont do a thing ,why should it we feed and clothe and send medical aid .they spend money on fire arms and war material and fight against the ones that are trying to help their people .....I am over it ..I would rather help out an Aussie any day ..


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## Tatelina (Sep 19, 2008)

waikare said:


> well if u have lots of snakes and excess ones tht u cant sell and there is a chance u cld make the next big money earner wat wld u do u cld experiment and no one wld even no



Let's just hope you don't become a 'big breeder' with 'spare' animals then.


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## Tatelina (Sep 19, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> I agree true with you, my point was .......he claimed there was a "too many humans in the world" and there fore if people were to use up body fluids looking at morphs on the comp etc we wouldnt have a breeding problem ,was stating that in OZ we are not getting enough to populate and so our migrant numbers are up high due to this ....if more aussies did the doo dah, like you true, we wouldnt need to rely on overseas to do it ......i realise we have multi cultural people in our country and have no problems with that .as long as you become an AUSTRALIAN citizen if you were not born here all is good but I get pissed off that some claim to live here but will never become a citizen thats aload of crap in my books ...dont like it enough to become a citizen then GO BACK HOME TO YOUR PLACE OF BIRTH.....



Why can I see your posts even after I've put you on my ignore list? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?? :'( :'(  

It hurts me eyes....


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## Radar (Sep 19, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> Why can I see your posts even after I've put you on my ignore list? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?? :'( :'(
> 
> It hurts me eyes....


 


haahhaa.
Agreed. 

But back on topic: 
Has anyone seen anything resembling the zebra's in Aus apart from the MD? Legal importation aside it would be interesting to be certain about their origins and genetic lineage.


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## Chris1 (Sep 19, 2008)

oh Browns, those snakes are incredible!!


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