# Unnatural Selection - Dog Breeding



## beastcreature (Apr 28, 2014)

Thought I would share; HBO's Real Sports piece on Pedigree dog breeding has the pure blood brigade in a tizzy.
Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: AKC sticks knife in. To itself


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## Klaery (Apr 28, 2014)

Didn't see any jags. 

Oh right, dogs.


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## Vixen (Apr 28, 2014)

Haven't watched the video yet so not sure if it's shown, but I really hate what has happened to the German Shepherd. They shouldn't even be called the same thing any more - the modern dogs are barely fit to walk let alone WORK.

My dream dog, but will only be purchasing one from a German schutzhund line when the time comes.

Max von Stephanitz would be spitting in his grave if he could see the breed now.


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## beastcreature (Apr 28, 2014)

Vixen said:


> Haven't watched the video yet so not sure if it's shown, but I really hate what has happened to the German Shepherd. They shouldn't even be called the same thing any more - the modern dogs are barely fit to walk let alone WORK.
> 
> My dream dog, but will only be purchasing one from a German schutzhund line when the time comes.
> 
> Max von Stephanitz would be spitting in his grave if he could see the breed now.



Late last year I pulled this from the German Shepherd club of Victoria's website, to me it illustrates how little respect a lot of these breed fanatics have for people outside the fancy. They even go as far as insulting the veterinary profession, apparently a vet concerned about soreness present in a young puppy is immediately thinking the worst.

"Rapid Growth Problems

The problems discussed here occur in the younger, rapidly growing German Shepherd. As German Shepherds are far more angulated than most breeds, they can appear to be having serious problems when in many cases they are going through fairly normal stages of development.

Common problems are:

Excessive looseness of hocks, can be secondary to excessive depth of hindquarter angulation or increasing length of hock.
Down in pasterns (often seen with 1 above).
Flat feet (can be with both 1 and 2).
Roached backs – (often associated with 1 above).
Lameness – both perception of and real

There is poor general (public) knowledge of growth problems in the GSD. These conditions can include ligament (hocks and pasterns), bone and joint conditions including OCD (elbows, backs), panoestitis, and, less commonly these days, hip dysplasia. Due to the greater angulation of GSD’s compared to other breeds, the perception that there is a problem, particularly during rapid growth, can arise.

Many of these puppies can present as sore with roached backs, very loose in the hocks and/or down in pastern. The age they present can be as young as 12-14 weeks, however, more commonly at around 5-7 months of age. As some of these puppies can appear to be rather loose and or sore, many veterinarians will immediately assume the worst (HD etc) when it can be a relatively easily corrected problem in many cases.

The vast majority of the problems listed above are diet and weight associated, acerbated by (in some cases) the perception of excessive angulation. Most conditions arise following excessive rate of weight gain, usually secondary to the over use of high energy, high density dry foods. Breeders are generally more aware of feeding protocols, and are more likely to keep weights within desirable levels. New owners (ie. the general public) are far more likely to over feed and use expensive high end foods as the more you pay, the better the quality etc…not always so!"

Growth Disorders in Young German Shepherds | German Shepherd Dog Club of Victoria


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## disintegratus (Apr 29, 2014)

I disagree beastcreature. for the record,while I don't think the changes to the GSD's appearance are good, I can't find any fault with what's written there. 
Lots of puppies, especially large breeds which grow very quickly, can have periods of pain or lack of coordination while growing. Unfortunately, what they say about the general public being more likely to overfeed/Feed inappropriate food is also true. The average joe probably does not do a billion hours or research to find out what's best to feed their dog. They are led to believe that super-expensive means super-good, and don't understand that a growing animal can be overfed resulting in something other than just being fat.
As for insulting vets, realistically, a lot of vets these days are very out of touch, and you can't expect every vet to know everything.
Most vets have a great knowledge base on their most common clientele: mongrels and moggies. Outside of those two categories, it can be very difficult to find a vet who has a clue regarding anything else. Purebred dogs and cats are no exception, they have issues which may be fairly specific to the breed/type, such as the above example of growing pains in large dogs, but a standard vet may jump to the worst possible conclusion of hip dysplasia when in actual fact a proper discussion of diet and a slight change in it would be best. I'm not saying that vets dont know anything, just that they can't know everything.


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## beastcreature (Apr 29, 2014)

disintegratus said:


> I disagree beastcreature. for the record,while I don't think the changes to the GSD's appearance are good, I can't find any fault with what's written there.
> Lots of puppies, especially large breeds which grow very quickly, can have periods of pain or lack of coordination while growing. Unfortunately, what they say about the general public being more likely to overfeed/Feed inappropriate food is also true. The average joe probably does not do a billion hours or research to find out what's best to feed their dog. They are led to believe that super-expensive means super-good, and don't understand that a growing animal can be overfed resulting in something other than just being fat.
> As for insulting vets, realistically, a lot of vets these days are very out of touch, and you can't expect every vet to know everything.
> Most vets have a great knowledge base on their most common clientele: mongrels and moggies. Outside of those two categories, it can be very difficult to find a vet who has a clue regarding anything else. Purebred dogs and cats are no exception, they have issues which may be fairly specific to the breed/type, such as the above example of growing pains in large dogs, but a standard vet may jump to the worst possible conclusion of hip dysplasia when in actual fact a proper discussion of diet and a slight change in it would be best. I'm not saying that vets dont know anything, just that they can't know everything.



Their use of the term *perceived* excessive angulation to me speaks volumes. Sounds like their idea of 'poor general (public) knowledge is a pet owners inability to accept that their young GS presenting as sore with a roach back as a normal stage in development, they're sore with a roach back because selective breeding has given them one - would be a more accurate way of putting it.

Now, I can't speak for all vets of course but being confronted with dogs suffering from breed specific problems day in day out might lead to the preconceived notion that when a GS is having anatomical issues, it could very well be related to their conformation, adequate testing is done soon thereafter so how they can call the veterinary profession out as immediately thinking the worst on their official Victorian breed cub website makes me wonder if it's not just a slight dig at any vet who has the gall to question the way the GS is today.


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## Woma_Wild (Apr 29, 2014)

Breeders breed what the judges want.
I used to enjoy watching Crufts but I am appalled and sickened with the look of the GSD now.
Those dogs look crippled and appear to be dragging their hind legs.
All my GSD have come from breeders that still breed the traditional working dogs, not the show dogs.
That said, Australian bred dogs are certainly not as bad as dogs in the UK.


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## beastcreature (Apr 29, 2014)

“Happy, healthy dogs” | The Retriever, Dog, & Wildlife Blog


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## pythonmum (Apr 29, 2014)

You can still get working line GSDs here. I saw a gorgeous female (correct term leads to stars) in a dog trial I was helping at. She had a strong, square conformation quite different from show dogs in my club. Apparently animals from this particular breeder are highly sought by police and military. Otherwise, they seem to be switching to the Belgian shepherds which are not as extreme. I really don't like the look of most show dogs. They look good in front, but weak in back. A real shame.


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## Stuart (Apr 29, 2014)

GSDs should never have been bred as show dogs. They do and always will do much better at being working/family animals than being paraded around for the amusement of people. 

Good article, thanks for sharing.


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## beastcreature (Apr 29, 2014)

Some more on unnatural selection; I'm not fond of short legged long backed breeds but the Albany Bassets are worth seeing.

Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Crufts 2014 - Best of Breed Basset Hound

What I consider to be the dog of the moment - the French bulldog, they're like some kind of plague unleashed on the alternative city dwellers of Melbourne.

Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: French Bulldogs - an enviable life?


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## beastcreature (May 28, 2014)

Recently there was a kerfuffle over a Saint Bernard who failed her vet check at Crufts, vet was John Goodyear, an eye specialist. The same dog went on to pass another exam by a different vet 2 weeks later at the Bath championship show.

I'd like to know why loose flews & exposed eye haw appeal to some people. For those who do like the look, can you explain why it appeals to you & whether you believe it impacts a dogs quality of life?


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## beastcreature (Jun 11, 2014)

Want to revive this thread with a picture of what might be the nicest Bull terrier I've ever seen, he's reminiscent of the moderate looking Bullies bred by UK based Lyndon Ingles.

[URL=http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/AMN8914/media/DOGS/DOG%20CONFORMATION/22536_zps5d6e2b82.jpg.html]

[/URL]


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