# Boa Constrictor in Geelong



## cagey (Apr 29, 2014)

Boa constrictor seized from Geelong residence


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## Ramsayi (Apr 29, 2014)

All with no mention of drugs,guns or motorbikes! Amazing!


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## critterguy (Apr 29, 2014)

What an idiot, all those native snakes you can keep and he goes and gets a introduced that could help spread new diseases to the wild ones if it got loose etc.


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## Jacknife (Apr 29, 2014)

Folks from Geelong aren't generally considered that bright anyway [MENTION=39804]critterguy[/MENTION].

When we saw it on the tv I said to my partner they should cut it's head off and she looked at me wierd hehe.
She didn't know they were illegal or that now seized it'd be put down, and was a bit shocked that me a snake lover would say that.


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## Blocka89 (Apr 29, 2014)

Hopefully it goes to a zoo if vet check comes back clean


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## Jacknife (Apr 30, 2014)

Spoke to a friend working at Melbourne Zoo a few hours ago about this. They won't take it(have no need), and nowhere else in Vic is authorized to take it. For what it is it's too exy to send interstate and quarantine, house ect. Much cheaper to introduce it to a brick.


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 30, 2014)

Blocka89 said:


> Hopefully it goes to a zoo if vet check comes back clean



That scenario generally only happens with rare species, this guy will be euth'd almost certainly


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## 00Scales00 (Apr 30, 2014)

That's really sad. What a waste of a beautiful animal.


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## moosenoose (Apr 30, 2014)

GeckoJosh is on the money sadly. 

This animal would pose absolutely no health risk whatsoever...undoubtedly it was bred here. My suggestion is: Why not quarantine it for supposed "health" reasons & seek a genuine license holder who is willing to take it in for the remainder of its days? Chipped etc etc ...and at that rate the person knowingly & illegally keeping it can be dealt with (fined/punished etc) under the wildlife act, and an innocent animal isn't euthanized because of its former keepers stupidity. That's a workable win/win ....it's not something that can be manipulated by private reptile keepers wanting to obtain an exotic reptile because the criminal punishment is still being applied. That makes the most sense to me....and if i was elected PM.......8)


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## Jacknife (Apr 30, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> GeckoJosh is on the money sadly.
> 
> This animal would pose absolutely no health risk whatsoever...undoubtedly it was bred here. My suggestion is: Why not quarantine it for supposed "health" reasons & seek a genuine license holder who is willing to take it in for the remainder of its days? Chipped etc etc ...and at that rate the person knowingly & illegally keeping it can be dealt with (fined/punished etc) under the wildlife act, and an innocent animal isn't euthanized because of its former keepers stupidity. That's a workable win/win ....it's not something that can be manipulated by private reptile keepers wanting to obtain an exotic reptile because the criminal punishment is still being applied. That makes the most sense to me....and if i was elected PM.......8)



The money and resources required to do this - for ONE illegal, not rare, and not particularly wanted animal - is entirely, ridiculously unwarranted.
If it's in this country it shouldn't be alive, it's that simple.
As I stated above, it's getting euth'd as no society whatsoever is willing to take it and gov't will never put it in private hands.


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## treeofgreen (Apr 30, 2014)

Badsville said:


> The money and resources required to do this - for ONE illegal, not rare, and not particularly wanted animal - is entirely, ridiculously unwarranted.
> If it's in this country it shouldn't be alive, it's that simple.
> As I stated above, it's getting euth'd as no society whatsoever is willing to take it and gov't will never put it in private hands.



I think moose's idea is to deal with this type of issue(exotics). Not just this one particular boa 

It's a shame it will be euth'd, such wonderful animals


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## Ramy (Apr 30, 2014)

treeofgreen said:


> It's a shame it will be euth'd, such wonderful animals



I think law enforcers have to be harsh in these situations. The more deterrents you introduce, the fewer buyers. Well, it works in theory better than in practice.

Animals brought in illegally have a high mortality rate in transit. If there's also the risk of the animal being found and euthanised, then hopefully prospective buyers will see that it's not in the animal's interests. People will keep smuggling animals and breeding them here for as long as there are buyers, and smugglers don't care about the animal's well being. It's easier to appeal to the potential pet owners. Sure, most people who want to keep illegal reptiles are people who do it to thumb their nose at police... but they're also people who don't want to understand the environmental risks they're taking.


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## treeofgreen (Apr 30, 2014)

Ramy said:


> I think law enforcers have to be harsh in these situations. The more deterrents you introduce, the fewer buyers. Well, it works in theory better than in practice.
> 
> Animals brought in illegally have a high mortality rate in transit. If there's also the risk of the animal being found and euthanised, then hopefully prospective buyers will see that it's not in the animal's interests. People will keep smuggling animals and breeding them here for as long as there are buyers, and smugglers don't care about the animal's well being. It's easier to appeal to the potential pet owners. Sure, most people who want to keep illegal reptiles are people who do it to thumb their nose at police... but they're also people who don't want to understand the environmental risks they're taking.



Definitely agree with you. It has just always bugged me that the animal pays the ultimate price for other people's wrong doings 

The authoritah could possibly legally ship the animal overseas to accepting parties who can then onsell to a customer. The human offender should pickup the tab for shipping + some sort of nominated quarantine cost and also pay the relevant fine. Overseas reciever gets a free animal to sell, the offender gets their dues and the animal gets a home(hopefully). Just throwing an idea out there!


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## moosenoose (Apr 30, 2014)

Badsville said:


> The money and resources required to do this - for ONE illegal, not rare, and not particularly wanted animal - is entirely, ridiculously unwarranted.
> If it's in this country it shouldn't be alive, it's that simple.
> As I stated above, it's getting euth'd as no society whatsoever is willing to take it and gov't will never put it in private hands.



The trouble is they are in this country - by the bucketload. Captive bred, illegal & rarely found in collections by DEPI/police for those "not on the grid" (ie: registered keepers). Usually they ONLY way they are found is via a drug bust or some other illegal activity that has warranted a police search.

I've had the DEPI do a paperwork/book check on my animals, but not once did I have to show them the room with the 12 boas & 5 spitting cobras in it? They didn't search the house because I haven't been accused of something illegal. Other than being searched for that reason, the possibility of them ever finding one of these exotics (which there are craploads out there) is the equivalent to winning the lotto. 

But why put down a perfectly good animal? Sure the zoos don't want to take them...but I would.


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## Blocka89 (Apr 30, 2014)

It's a shame their a nice snake I got to hold one at Australia zoo a few years ago it was about 2.5 m


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## junglepython2 (Apr 30, 2014)

A boa is no greater than a fox, rabbit, feral pig, mouse or cane toad, I see no issue whatsoever with it being euthed.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 30, 2014)

The people who smuggle the animals in should be the ones getting euthanasia!
Animal should be returned to a country where it can be legally kept.


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## Jacknife (Apr 30, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> The trouble is they are in this country - by the bucketload. Captive bred, illegal & rarely found in collections by DEPI/police for those "not on the grid" (ie: registered keepers). Usually they ONLY way they are found is via a drug bust or some other illegal activity that has warranted a police search.
> 
> I've had the DEPI do a paperwork/book check on my animals, but not once did I have to show them the room with the 12 boas & 5 spitting cobras in it? They didn't search the house because I haven't been accused of something illegal. Other than being searched for that reason, the possibility of them ever finding one of these exotics (which there are craploads out there) is the equivalent to winning the lotto.
> 
> But why put down a perfectly good animal? Sure the zoos don't want to take them...but I would.



Just because it's here and in numbers doesn't mean it should get a free pass. Laws are laws and they're in place for a very good and very specific reason.
Heroin is prevalent within our communities and has been for a long time, should that mean it should become legal? Hell no.
Don't try and say that these are two separate arguments(drugs & fauna) because they aren't. The whole point is to protect what this country from things, that when left unchecked can destroy it.


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## Retic (May 1, 2014)

It's what makes it so ridiculous everytime they trot out the disease risk line each time an animal is found, that snake is probably the absolute minimum 4th generation Australian bred but I guess the 'disease, disease, wipe out all our animals' line is more sensational. Finding one snake every 6 months or whatever is going to make absolutely no difference whatsoever. It is mind boggling how many of these and 100's of other species are in the country already and their numbers just keep growing.



moosenoose said:


> GeckoJosh is on the money sadly.
> 
> This animal would pose absolutely no health risk whatsoever...undoubtedly it was bred here. My suggestion is: Why not quarantine it for supposed "health" reasons & seek a genuine license holder who is willing to take it in for the remainder of its days? Chipped etc etc ...and at that rate the person knowingly & illegally keeping it can be dealt with (fined/punished etc) under the wildlife act, and an innocent animal isn't euthanized because of its former keepers stupidity. That's a workable win/win ....it's not something that can be manipulated by private reptile keepers wanting to obtain an exotic reptile because the criminal punishment is still being applied. That makes the most sense to me....and if i was elected PM.......8)


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## solar 17 (May 1, 2014)

Boas have been in the Geelong area since the early 90's that l am aware of and they had been bred then so there will be a few out there. solar 17 ~B~


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## moosenoose (May 1, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Just because it's here and in numbers doesn't mean it should get a free pass. Laws are laws and they're in place for a very good and very specific reason.
> Heroin is prevalent within our communities and has been for a long time, should that mean it should become legal? Hell no.
> Don't try and say that these are two separate arguments(drugs & fauna) because they aren't. The whole point is to protect what this country from things, that when left unchecked can destroy it.



Actually that is a dumb argument :lol: We’re taking about a living creature that can potentially be taken in by a 3rd party (zoo, sanctuary etc) & most probably without risk to native fauna/fauna – but because there is no option “these days” for a private keeper to take it in, that’s the end of the line for it – what a waste! To compare heroin as an inanimate drug that destroys lives & promotes criminal activity is a real stretch.

International license holders in this country, and I know a few, can keep boas etc in private collections without a problem. It can be regulated and it is regulated. There are strict rules on these license holders. The animals they have were undoubtedly bred in this country & are potentially 10th generation captives.

I am a fox shooter. I have major issues with feral animals in this country. Actually I shoot anything that’s feral. But in Sydney they have the Sydney Fox Rescue program. Foxes are taken in under legal regulation by private individuals. They have to meet x-y-z criteria & the animal is desexed, microchipped & has to be contained in an escape-proof cage/house etc. I think these people are a little misguided in their efforts as there are plenty more native animals that need rescuing, but then I am also compassionate about their goals, as I feel the same thing should happen in regards to confiscated exotic pythons etc. As long as the authorities know where they are (as opposed to not knowing where they are – which is the majority of the time), and they aren’t a venomous species, I don’t see the issue with it. They aren’t finding hundreds a week (but they should be) & I believe there is a more viable result available for the animal. 

Ps: no one is out there injecting or snorting snake


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## eipper (May 1, 2014)

Boas were being legally kept and bred in Victoria pre amnesty. Ignoring a problem will not make it go away nor will seizing the odd one here or there. Exotic birds..... Which are much more mobile and an escape risk are keep here by thousands of people. They are a direct analogue for reptiles there is no reason that you should be able to keep exotic fish or birds and not Herps. They are here no point sticking a head in the sand.

As for reasoning for someone keeping exotics .......I don't thumbing there nose at the police was a reason that would come to mind of most exotic keepers......Most people let alone police would not be able to tell a ball python from a woma or a boa from a carpet. They are keeping a snake in a box nothing more or less


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## jahan (May 1, 2014)

In the early 90`s there was alot for free.


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## moosenoose (May 1, 2014)

They should hold another amnesty, the result will undoubtedly frighten them with the figures out there, and up the penalty for people caught with them. I still know people with legally held boas. I just think there can be another option. I don't breed anything (generally), or usually by accident, so it'd just be sitting in the bottom of one of my tanks - alive.


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## Jacknife (May 1, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> Actually that is a dumb argument :lol: We’re taking about a living creature that can potentially be taken in by a 3rd party (zoo, sanctuary etc) & most probably without risk to native fauna/fauna – but because there is no option “these days” for a private keeper to take it in, that’s the end of the line for it – what a waste! To compare heroin as an inanimate drug that destroys lives & promotes criminal activity is a real stretch.
> 
> International license holders in this country, and I know a few, can keep boas etc in private collections without a problem. It can be regulated and it is regulated. There are strict rules on these license holders. The animals they have were undoubtedly bred in this country & are potentially 10th generation captives.
> 
> ...



A laws a law.
They don't belong here, and the government and most responsible keepers/breeders don't want them here.
Brick them all end of story.


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## moosenoose (May 1, 2014)

Plenty of dumb laws out there, and what a nice black & white opinion you have  ...and well done tossing in the word "responsible" which has nothing to do with it. How about the words "ignorant" and "clueless" bureaucrats who somehow think whilst they are feeding their cat, dog or African ringneck that a confiscated reptile wouldn't be better off going to a regulated private keeper. I suppose you believe in your wisdom that zoos shouldn't have any exotic species either?

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of dumb laws, does anyone still know that you're breaking the law if you change a lightblub & aren't a qualified electrician? You're all bloody crooks! :lol:


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## eipper (May 1, 2014)

Or a tap washer


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## solar 17 (May 1, 2014)

"moosenoose" post #21 of this thread, what a great point of view while l am not into these exotics they are here in plague proportions (well almost) lets face the situation rather than sweep it under the carpet like Badesville suggests which gets us to where we are now and for those that have been around a while, was the last amnesty such a bad thing and lets face it where $$$ are concerned ppl will always try to bend the rules. solar 17 ~B~


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## AUSHERP (May 1, 2014)

If the authorities were serious about the problem they would hold another amnesty. One exotic snake every 6 months by pure chance is hardly "law enforcement"


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## -Peter (May 1, 2014)

solar 17 said:


> Boas have been in the Geelong area since the early 90's that l am aware of and they had been bred then so there will be a few out there. solar 17 ~B~



You may want to extend that back quite a decade or more.

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eipper said:


> Or a tap washer



I can change the washer but I have to get it inspected by a licensed plumber afterwards...


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## solar 17 (May 1, 2014)

"Peter" l thought after l posted that l should have put "that l was aware" and only after a friend took pics with a Melbourne newspaper in the background. solar 17 ~B~


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## eipper (May 1, 2014)

-Peter said:


> You may want to extend that back quite a decade or more.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Not anymore as it is part of the potable water supply it can only be worked on by a licensed plumber or an authorised person such as an apprentice being supervised.


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## Retic (May 1, 2014)

I hope those saying 'they shouldnt be here' are vegetarian, actually make that vegan BUT only eat native green stuff. OK that might seem extreme but you cant say something doesnt belong but still have a dog and eat steak


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## Jacknife (May 1, 2014)

I'm not saying, trying to or advocating 'brushing them under the rug'.
I'm all for an amnesty, flushing them out and seeing how many there really are out there.

And bricking the lot of them.

I'd throw in the Indian Ringnecks, The Indian Miners, the Terrapins that appear here and there, the Cane Toads, the foxes, the rabbits.
Burn the lot of 'em, keep this country safe for and proud of the amazing fauna we have.

For me it is black and white, I love where we live and what we have and would do anything I could to preserve it.

Here's a photo of me about ten years ago holding a beautiful Boa in Costa Rica.







This was one of the best experiences of my herp life.
In Costa Rica. Where it belongs.
If I came across this gorgeous beast here, you bet I'd be doing everything I could to find the nearest freezer.


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## junglepython2 (May 1, 2014)

An amnesty is a total waste of time, only a tiny fraction of exotic keepers would come forward. They either don't know they are illegal or don't care.


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## Retic (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Here's a photo of me about ten years ago holding a beautiful Boa in Costa Rica.



That's a Reticulated Python.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> I'm not saying, trying to or advocating 'brushing them under the rug'.
> I'm all for an amnesty, flushing them out and seeing how many there really are out there.
> 
> And bricking the lot of them.
> ...



Are you going to add cats and dogs to that list or just keep it as it is?
Cats destroy more wildlife in this country than any other feral species including cane toads but we still bring then into the country day after day.


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## Retic (May 2, 2014)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Are you going to add cats and dogs to that list or just keep it as it is?
> Cats destroy more wildlife in this country than any other feral species including cane toads but we still bring then into the country day after day.



Yes it's strange some animals are thought of differently, I have to assume he doesnt have a dog or cat or indeed eats beef or pork or lamb, chicken.


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## zulu (May 2, 2014)

junglepython2 said:


> An amnesty is a total waste of time, only a tiny fraction of exotic keepers would come forward. They either don't know they are illegal or don't care.



Your right ,the majority of exotic keepers are not interested in amnesties or licensing for that matter .


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## moosenoose (May 2, 2014)

Maybe they could have a drugs amnesty too  I'm sure that'd work.

Pretty hard for a reptile enthusiast to know they're surrendering something "harmless to native wildlife" to get euthanized. 

As an interesting comparison, I understand registered snake catchers are obligated to "put down" any exotics they find....and to step it up further: put down any native snakes they cannot relocate within the regulated distances they're allocated. I can bet that most snake relocators are reptile enthusiasts primarily, and their conscience would ensure the latter scenario happens very, very rarely. 

So hypothetically If I was handed a boa by someone, the right thing would be to hand it in to get euthanized. Common sense tells me its not doing any damage under my care. Legally I'm up crap creek if I'm caught. The chances of getting caught are slim to zero. I love a risk.

Oh, and I'm not condoning keeping exotics


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## beastcreature (May 2, 2014)

Moosenoose, you've mirrored my point of view. I'm pro hunting, I feel vegetarianism is a cute concept though flawed in it's logic but these psychopaths that openly brag about the fulfilment they get from torturing feral animals is a really sick display.


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## Jacknife (May 2, 2014)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Are you going to add cats and dogs to that list or just keep it as it is?
> Cats destroy more wildlife in this country than any other feral species including cane toads but we still bring then into the country day after day.



If I was around 150+ years ago I would have damn well tried.


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## beastcreature (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> If I was around 150+ years ago I would have damn well tried.



So for you dog & cat numbers are at a point of no return while exotic reptiles are not here in any kind of mass, is that what you're saying? 
I'm sure 150 years ago us caucasians would have struggled without the help of domestic animals hence why we utilized them in the first place.


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## champagne (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> A laws a law.
> They don't belong here, and the government and most responsible keepers/breeders don't want them here.
> Brick them all end of story.



couldn't the same be said about jags, zebras, albino bhps? These were all smuggled back into the country... and we already can keep exotic reptiles.... exotic gtps?


out dated licensing system with out dated laws

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Badsville said:


> keep this country safe for and proud of the amazing fauna we have.
> 
> For me it is black and white, I love where we live and what we have and would do anything I could to preserve it.



keeping local fauna outside of its natural range in Australia is still an exotic reptile to the area and poses the same risk of establishing feral populations as ''illegal'' exotics, actually they probably poses a higher risk due to chance of cross breeding.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> If I was around 150+ years ago I would have damn well tried.



While you are sorting through that one don't forget the Camels and the Dingo's. The latter having been here 18,000 years but still ferral. Animals don't come here by choice they are brought here by the other ferral species.....US. 
Why should the animal suffer the death sentence when the people who bring them in walk away to do it all again? 
Maybe the person bringing the Boa into the country misidentified it as a Retic??


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## Jacknife (May 2, 2014)

Oh how I'm giggling to myself today : )


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## Gaboon (May 2, 2014)

How many articles do you see of boas and exotics being found? Almost zero. How many exotics do snake catchers find? They do pop up but not many. I think Australia is doing well when it comes to exotics. go for a bush walk and you don't see exotics, that's a good sign. People on here make out like its an out of control problem. It's pretty funny. What ever you have that's controlled people any where on the planet will still deal them. 

Most of the exotic keepers iv seen keep their exotics in perfect condition, the animals look healthy and they never lose any animals. Other people on the other hand keep natives by the law with no exotics and their enclosures are messy they just leave them and their animals aren't that healthy. I'm not encouraging keeping them and I wouldn't keep any because iv got animals on books I don't want to loss them. But marble and albino children's look just as good and there is some money in them at the moment, so I won't be keeping any corns or boas but the people iv seen keeping them, keep them in great condition and respect the animals, they aren't going any where. 

But like I said I think Australia is doing well when it comes to everything prohibited. drugs, guns everything is here but it's not that bad and we are dealing human beings and you get people breaking the law. You can't expect a country to be Completely honest and pure when human beings are involved. But Australia is doing as well as can over all I think. If you think it's too corrupt here maybe you'd prefer a less corrupt place, like... i don't know brazil? Or maybe England, in the next 50 years I'm sure will be awesome for you...


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## eipper (May 2, 2014)

Badsville said:


> I'm not saying, trying to or advocating 'brushing them under the rug'.
> I'm all for an amnesty, flushing them out and seeing how many there really are out there.
> 
> And bricking the lot of them.
> ...




thats a retic from Malaysia not a boa and not where it belongs


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## Retic (May 2, 2014)

eipper said:


> thats a retic from Malaysia not a boa and not where it belongs



Oh the irony


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## damoztishfank (May 2, 2014)

Only one in Geelong?.. Oh the horror


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## Jacknife (May 2, 2014)

boa said:


> That's a Reticulated Python.





eipper said:


> thats a retic from Malaysia not a boa and not where it belongs



Well done! You picked up on my sneaky!

It's actually me and a Retic from the KL Zoo taken in early '09.

It's good to know that while some people are fear mongering and hyping up already misinformed, unproven, and never documented imaginary figures to advocate for some new citizenships; that there are some people who actually know what is what and from where.

The last two days on this forum have made me smile like never before

*insert evil villian laugh*


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## Retic (May 2, 2014)

damoztishfank said:


> Only one in Geelong?.. Oh the horror



Well one found anyway


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## Cold-B-Hearts (May 6, 2014)

treeofgreen said:


> I think moose's idea is to deal with this type of issue(exotics). Not just this one particular boa
> 
> It's a shame it will be euth'd, such wonderful animals



I see the logic behind this unfortunately once someone is legally owning an exotic, and they post photos etc the demand for this species will increase and more exotics will be brought into the country


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## champagne (May 6, 2014)

Cold-B-Hearts said:


> I see the logic behind this unfortunately once someone is legally owning an exotic, and they post photos etc the demand for this species will increase and more exotics will be brought into the country



most exotics are actually bred here but a few probably came in with the jags and zebras but that's ok they are native, right?


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## Jacknife (May 6, 2014)

champagne said:


> most exotics are actually bred here but a few probably came in with the jags and zebras but that's ok they are native, right?



Thats a bit of a different argument. If you break it down, yes the gene is exotic, but the breed is native. The original Coastals the jag gene came from - even though it was overseas - is a native species. 
Boa's and Corn Snakes simply do not belong in this country.
Release a snake carrying the jag gene into the environment, and aside from changing a few locale paint jobs - the eco system will suffer no negative impact as the are a native species. OR they will simply not survive.
Release a bunch of Boa's and you've got an entirely severe problem with your eco system.

Just because yes they are here, it doesn't mean there should be any reason to reconsider a legal stance on their existence in the country.
Deciding to legalize them is just going to give a green light to every other smuggler bringing in every other kind of exotic species.
It's telling them that if they flood the market, we'll cave and change laws. That is eco-terrorism my friend.

"The snake is the one who suffers" is not a valid arguement. It shouldn't exist in the first place so taking it out changes nothing.


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## moosenoose (May 6, 2014)

Saying it gives smugglers the green light to bring in other animals is another stretch. Do you think they have an unwritten code on what they might be currently bringing in?

BTW I'm glad we have exotic reptiles banned here, as long as they don't start banning Macaws & some of those exotic fish species I keep, but when people continue to harp on about biosecurity & reptiles being the problem....then I start to wonder where this rant is coming from.


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## treeofgreen (May 6, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Thats a bit of a different argument. If you break it down, yes the gene is exotic, but the breed is native. The original Coastals the jag gene came from - even though it was overseas - is a native species.
> Boa's and Corn Snakes simply do not belong in this country.
> Release a snake carrying the jag gene into the environment, and aside from changing a few locale paint jobs - the eco system will suffer no negative impact as the are a native species. OR they will simply not survive.
> Release a bunch of Boa's and you've got an entirely severe problem with your eco system.
> ...



The snake has just as much of a right to be here as you do 

What do YOU think would actually happen if boas were released into the Aussie bush? (I'd bet this has happened before anyway, still waiting for a "retics in the Everglades" type situation)


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## champagne (May 6, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Thats a bit of a different argument. If you break it down, yes the gene is exotic, but the breed is native. The original Coastals the jag gene came from - even though it was overseas - is a native species.
> Boa's and Corn Snakes simply do not belong in this country.
> Release a snake carrying the jag gene into the environment, and aside from changing a few locale paint jobs - the eco system will suffer no negative impact as the are a native species. OR they will simply not survive.
> Release a bunch of Boa's and you've got an entirely severe problem with your eco system.
> ...



I was just saying the whole bio security argument is bs as most are from c/b animals that have been in Australia for multiple generations. If exotics don't belonging here and we shouldn't be allowed to keep exotic reptiles because of the ''risks'' then why are we legally allowed to keep exotic GTP? has that given every smuggler a green light?


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## Jacknife (May 6, 2014)

champagne said:


> I was just saying the whole bio security argument is bs as most are from c/b animals that have been in Australia for multiple generations. If exotics don't belonging here and we shouldn't be allowed to keep exotic reptiles because of the ''risks'' then why are we legally allowed to keep exotic GTP? has that given every smuggler a green light?



Take that argument of "oh bio security is all a bunch of b/s" to DECC/DERM/NPWS/DEPI and see what they say.
Bio security is all about not letting things into the natural system - such as from captive collections. Where numbers are far more concentrated.

Exotic gtp's are legally kept here, as unless you see them as hatchies about the only way to tell where one is from is through DNA - I'd love to turf them out of this country too btw...

- - - Updated - - -



treeofgreen said:


> The snake has just as much of a right to be here as you do
> 
> What do YOU think would actually happen if boas were released into the Aussie bush? (I'd bet this has happened before anyway, still waiting for a "retics in the Everglades" type situation)



According to Australian law; No, no they don't.

I would think the biggest impact they would have would be habitat displacement, competition of food source and and adverse impact on eco-chains(ability to take bigger prey key to local biocycles ect.)

- - - Updated - - -



moosenoose said:


> Saying it gives smugglers the green light to bring in other animals is another stretch. Do you think they have an unwritten code on what they might be currently bringing in?
> 
> BTW I'm glad we have exotic reptiles banned here, as long as they don't start banning Macaws & some of those exotic fish species I keep, but when people continue to harp on about biosecurity & reptiles being the problem....then I start to wonder where this rant is coming from.



No of course there's no code, but if they realize we don't care about one exotic species whats to stop them bringing in ANY other en masse?

And I agree that reptiles aren't the only problem, but they're in there with mammals, birds, fish, the whole lot.


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## champagne (May 6, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Take that argument of "oh bio security is all a bunch of b/s" to DECC/DERM/NPWS/DEPI and see what they say.
> Bio security is all about not letting things into the natural system - such as from captive collections. Where numbers are far more concentrated.
> 
> Exotic gtp's are legally kept here, as unless you see them as hatchies about the only way to tell where one is from is through DNA - I'd love to turf them out of this country too btw...



yes the bio security argument of bring in new disease is all a bunch of bs because most exotics available are from animals that have been here for multiple generations...

Clearly you know very little about GTPs but legalising them hasn't open a huge flood gate of smuggled animals, no feral populations of exotic GTPs? no new diseases introduced? yes some exotics could have devastating effects ie green iguanas but some would pose very little if any risk varanus prasinus for example.


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## treeofgreen (May 6, 2014)

Badsville said:


> According to Australian law; No, no they don't.
> 
> I would think the biggest impact they would have would be habitat displacement, competition of food source and and adverse impact on eco-chains(ability to take bigger prey key to local biocycles ect.)



Law does not always mean right or well thought.

I have been wondering about the actual implications for awhile now, my views have changed abit, but I am currently sitting on "very little impact"

0.5% of Aus is Rainforest (assuming they are all suitable for boas)
We have large pythons here anyway.
If they are even able to compete, they would have to compete with our locals who been evolving here for xxxxx years in their own habitat. Same food, same predators while having to adapt to their new home.

I just don't see boas having anything "special" to out do our natives. Mind you I don't know how the live birthing aspect would change the game? Similar time from ovulation to hatchlings, but unsure if external is less of an advantage or not. Our native's current system seems to be doing the job though.

Always open to more input!


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## junglepython2 (May 6, 2014)

champagne said:


> yes the bio security argument of bring in new disease is all a bunch of bs because most exotics available are from animals that have been here for multiple generations...
> 
> Clearly you know very little about GTPs but legalising them hasn't open a huge flood gate of smuggled animals, no feral populations of exotic GTPs? no new diseases introduced? yes some exotics could have devastating effects ie green iguanas but some would pose very little if any risk varanus prasinus for example.



1. Plenty of GTPs were smuggled in a number of years ago, hence all the new locales that became available and the massive price drop in GTPs we saw.
2. Of course they haven't established feral populations there is only limited suitable habitat available in Australia most of which is already occupied by native GTPs. 
3. No one even knows what diseases are here let alone which ones have come in from smuggled animals.

And I agree that some exotic species would pose no threat what soever if adequately quarantined however some have effects that are not initially realized or easy to predict. In which case it is far easier to have the blanket ban we currently do.


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## Jacknife (May 6, 2014)

champagne said:


> yes the bio security argument of bring in new disease is all a bunch of bs because most exotics available are from animals that have been here for multiple generations...
> 
> Clearly you know very little about GTPs but legalising them hasn't open a huge flood gate of smuggled animals, no feral populations of exotic GTPs? no new diseases introduced? yes some exotics could have devastating effects ie green iguanas but some would pose very little if any risk varanus prasinus for example.



Bio-security isn't just prevention of diseases - of which I never even made mention.
Clearly you know very little about law. Once something is legalized it is no longer smuggled, it is imported. And GTP's are a terrible example as they have been here since forever, muddled in with Aus types. To most people - even snake enthusiasts, they'd struggle to at a glance tell the difference between GTP's from anywhere as adults. (as I stated).

And my point would be if they were bringing in things in numbers such as green iguanas, nile monitors ect. then we would have an ecological disaster on our hands much like the Florida Everglades.

Just look at these lists of species currently wreaking havoc and irreversible destruction to the Southern US.
Nonnative Species
It's a serious problem.
Would you want Australia to EVER be anywhere near this bad? I don't. And we have to take a hardline stance now, while there isn't a problem so we never do.
Australia and New Zealand have the toughest quarantine laws in the world apart from The Galapagos, and it's to protect our endemic native wildlife from the outside worlds hazards, this includes its animals - of all kinds.
I love how unique our nation is and have absolutely zero desire to see it populated by the animals of others.


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## Retic (May 6, 2014)

Except dogs, cats, sheep, cattle, horses, goats, Llamas, Alpacas, Ostriches, rats, mice, Guinea Pigs, rabbits, ferrets, camels, donkeys, numerous exotic birds and fish and no doubt lots more I have forgotten. The toughest quarantine laws in the world havent stopped the influx of exotic reptiles over the years. I have no interest one way or the other as far as legalising exotics BUT people need to look at what is out there. The species I listed are just the legal ones. It's amazing that the most destructive invasive species in the world (next to man), the cat, is virtually uncontrolled. I have lost count of how many times someone has told me that their cat doesnt kill native animals, maybe the odd mouse but nothing native or that their cat has a bell around it's neck so everything can hear it coming. I cant take a ban on exotic reptiles seriously while an animal 1000 times more destructive is allowed to roam free virtually everywhere.


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## beastcreature (May 6, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Bio-security isn't just prevention of diseases - of which I never even made mention.
> Clearly you know very little about law. Once something is legalized it is no longer smuggled, it is imported. And GTP's are a terrible example as they have been here since forever, muddled in with Aus types. To most people - even snake enthusiasts, they'd struggle to at a glance tell the difference between GTP's from anywhere as adults. (as I stated).
> 
> And my point would be if they were bringing in things in numbers such as green iguanas, nile monitors ect. then we would have an ecological disaster on our hands much like the Florida Everglades.
> ...



Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.


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## junglepython2 (May 6, 2014)

beastcreature said:


> Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.



Any amnesty that would legalise exotics already here would cause a massive flood of smuggled animals into the country.


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## Jacknife (May 6, 2014)

beastcreature said:


> Legalizing what is already here doesn't have to come hand in hand with allowing more exotic species into the country.



It sets a precedent. You can't deny it in any way.

- - - Updated - - -



boa said:


> Except dogs, cats, sheep, cattle, horses, goats, Llamas, Alpacas, Ostriches, rats, mice, Guinea Pigs, rabbits, ferrets, camels, donkeys, numerous exotic birds and fish and no doubt lots more I have forgotten. The toughest quarantine laws in the world havent stopped the influx of exotic reptiles over the years. I have no interest one way or the other as far as legalising exotics BUT people need to look at what is out there. The species I listed are just the legal ones. It's amazing that the most destructive invasive species in the world (next to man), the cat, is virtually uncontrolled. I have lost count of how many times someone has told me that their cat doesnt kill native animals, maybe the odd mouse but nothing native or that their cat has a bell around it's neck so everything can hear it coming. I cant take a ban on exotic reptiles seriously while an animal 1000 times more destructive is allowed to roam free virtually everywhere.



Couldn't agree with you any more mate. It it were up to me I'd string the lot of them up.
Sadly with Livestock being the foundation of this country, its a little hard to ever go back on that.
Most everything you've mentioned there aside from foxes, rabbits, camels, have been brought over for stock trade rather than private pet trade, it sucks but it's in a different bucket.
The rats and mice came with civilization, and the naivety of our forefathers brought the rest(foxes, rabbits, ferrets for sport/hunt).
These days we know better. It's safer to keep the doors locked and try to deal with whats already in instead of handing the prison over to the inmates as I see.


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## Cold-B-Hearts (May 7, 2014)

champagne said:


> most exotics are actually bred here but a few probably came in with the jags and zebras but that's ok they are native, right?



yeah mate that has nothing to do with the argument? a big statement not knowing where i stand with jags and zebs etc.....


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## champagne (May 7, 2014)

People who want to keep exotics will and people who don't won't. Destroying a few pets here and there has very little effect on numbers being bred each year and with the laws getting tighter on caging ect within the licensed system more people are moving off license...


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## fallenfeathers (May 7, 2014)

Badsville said:


> It sets a precedent. You can't deny it in any way.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Kind of off topic but the fact you said you'd have ferrets strung up bothers me & I
Can't agree with you, it's been proven they aren't able to establish a wild population here. A long while ago they tried to establish a wild population to control the rabbit plague but they couldn't survive & establish in the wild so they pose little to no threat. Sorry to everyone else for going off topic but as a ferret owner I have to put that out there.


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## Jacknife (May 7, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> Kind of off topic but the fact you said you'd have ferrets strung up bothers me & I
> Can't agree with you, it's been proven they aren't able to establish a wild population here. A long while ago they tried to establish a wild population to control the rabbit plague but they couldn't survive & establish in the wild so they pose little to no threat. Sorry to everyone else for going off topic but as a ferret owner I have to put that out there.



Do you have any proof of this? I'd love to give it a read if you did, sound interesting.
My point isn't specifically just about Boas though, it's about any exotic species really. They all hold the potential to be destructive.
I find it interesting my inclusion of ferrets bothers you more than me advocating the eradication of certain reptiles.
And you don't get to pick and choose which introduced species you beleive shouldn't be here. All or nothing my friend, it undermines your argument entirely.

- - - Updated - - -



champagne said:


> People who want to keep exotics will and people who don't won't. Destroying a few pets here and there has very little effect on numbers being bred each year and with the laws getting tighter on caging ect within the licensed system more people are moving off license...



Yeah this could be the case, doesn't mean we should just let it slide. These people need to know they are breaking laws and there are repercussions to it even if not all are caught. Take away the punishment what is the point of law at all?


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## fallenfeathers (May 7, 2014)

I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.


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## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.



Picking and choosing seems to be what our permits are about, basic and advanced licenses for different native species.

I think we really have enough species as it is so would prefer we destroyed any non-native reptiles or other animals. Im sure we dont want burmese pythons establising a colony up in the tropics, it really wont do our natives any good. 

The main thing is we have nothing to gain by introducing these exotics into the country, maybe fatten a few peoples wallets though. If it was tightly monitored and people werent gonna let them escape im sure they could allow them on licenses, but we already have such a nice selection of pet species we can keep.


Rick


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## Retic (May 7, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> I'll see if I can find where I read it & I'll give you the link. I don't agree that ALL exotic species are destructive & your inclusion of ferrets bothers me equally as much as your reptile argument but their are more misconceptions about ferrets than there are reptiles (and you're obviously fairly knowledgeable on the latter anyway). I don't believe in all exotic species being harmful to the environment, some species should be able to be kept (with the correct permit & inspections of where the reptile/amphibian *cough* pacman frog *cough* would be kept to ensure it is escape proof). Why would picking and choosing be off the cards? it's certainly not the case with exotic fish.



Yes it is foolish to think that all non native species are harmful to the environment but you have an overworked underfunded wildlife authority so nothing will change, it's easier to just blanket ban everything and leave all the exotics underground. I used to sell rats and mice to a bloke in Brisbane and the 2nd delivery I made he was offering me all sorts of Cornsnake morphs, Iguanas and other things. Some people would be amazed at what is out there.


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## Becceles (May 7, 2014)

I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?


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## Jacknife (May 7, 2014)

Becceles said:


> I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?



This.

- - - Updated - - -



Rogue5861 said:


> The main thing is we have nothing to gain by introducing these exotics into the country, maybe fatten a few peoples wallets though. If it was tightly monitored and people werent gonna let them escape im sure they could allow them on licenses, but we already have such a nice selection of pet species we can keep.
> 
> 
> Rick




This is also a big thing for me - it benefits this country entirely zero to allow them here except to make a few people a lot of money.


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## Bushman (May 8, 2014)

Interesting discussion guys. 

I feel quite strongly that we can't afford to take any risks whatsoever (no matter how small) by having exotic species in this great land. Our wildlife is unique and priceless and we as custodians and caretakers cannot afford to do any more harm than we've already done. We should _at the very least_ be trying to minimize any harm done. 

It's really not necessary to have any more exotics in the country than we already have and we should remove the ones that are here. We have plenty of wonderful herps in this country already. Let's be happy with what we've got and not risk losing what we've got because we want more. 
People who want exotics in this country remind me of the story of a dog with a bone in it's mouth, that sees its reflection in the water. The dog tries to grab the bone in the reflection and loses the bone it already had.


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## Gaboon (May 8, 2014)

I think we should be more concerned about politics of England and what type of law is starting to take over the current laws there, eventually effecting Australian laws. Exotic reptiles are the last of this country's concerns unlike extreme law systems becomeing Australian law, the government won't care about Exotic reptiles at all and protecting Australia's environment and animals in 50 - 60 years because it will simply will not be our goverment. All the native animals won't really matter and it will be all about the exotics. I'm just being realistic and if you want to talk about what will happen and what you would like to happen with use of logic, well that's two diffirent things.


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## moosenoose (May 8, 2014)

Becceles said:


> I think one thing that everyone forgets is the currently Australia has the highest rate of extinction in the world, with 22 species in 200 years (that we know of anyway). Why would anyone think it's a good idea to allow more exotic species in and further threaten our already devastated wildlife. Or is it because it's happening anyway what's a few more extinctions on the list?




I think the point being made is that they'd still be illegal, but the ones found don't have to be euthanized if they can go to private collections. If they can't find a suitable licensed keeper to take them in, then put them down by all means. Perhaps the main problem is they'd still have to be quarantined & that costs departments money. Perhaps the money required can be additionally funded by those caught with the animal? 

Hell, if you can have a flipping Fox Rescue program, you can have an exotic snake program. I still can't believe they've got a legalized fox rescue program operating up in NSW - even though there are the benefits of active removal.

- - - Updated - - -

Plenty of people out there currently who are actively seeking an end to the shooting of feral animals...go figure!


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## Retic (May 8, 2014)

Gaboon said:


> I think we should be more concerned about politics of England and what type of law is starting to take over the current laws there, eventually effecting Australian laws. Exotic reptiles are the last of this country's concerns unlike extreme law systems becomeing Australian law, the government won't care about Exotic reptiles at all and protecting Australia's environment and animals in 50 - 60 years because it will simply will not be our goverment. All the native animals won't really matter and it will be all about the exotics. I'm just being realistic and if you want to talk about what will happen and what you would like to happen with use of logic, well that's two diffirent things.



What? Does this make sense to anyone?


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## fallenfeathers (May 8, 2014)

boa said:


> What? Does this make sense to anyone?



Not at all


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## Retic (May 8, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> Not at all



Thank goodness, thought it might have just been me


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## Gaboon (May 8, 2014)

boa said:


> What? Does this make sense to anyone?



Alot of people understand it.


maybe Pat condell on utube can help you understand.


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## Retic (May 8, 2014)

Gaboon said:


> Alot of people understand it.
> 
> 
> maybe Pat condell on utube can help you understand.



OK, thanks  Its as clear as mud now LOL


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## fallenfeathers (May 8, 2014)

Badsville said:


> This.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



If you really wanted to look at it from that angle it could potentially benefit the economy & pet industry as a whole. I know a few people who would be right into reptiles if they had access to what people in the U.S & UK have access to


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## Gaboon (May 8, 2014)

boa said:


> OK, thanks  Its as clear as mud now LOL



Itl take a while but youl get it eventually. Things are about to get very interesting in the uk.


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## Retic (May 8, 2014)

Gaboon said:


> Itl take a while but youl get it eventually. Things are about to get very interesting in the uk.



Again, thanks for that but I dont do cryptic


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## Jacknife (May 8, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> If you really wanted to look at it from that angle it could potentially benefit the economy & pet industry as a whole. I know a few people who would be right into reptiles if they had access to what people in the U.S & UK have access to



Like I said, making a few pockets fat.
And I have issue with people who would chose to have exotics over the stunning array of natives this land has given us.


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## Retic (May 8, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Like I said, making a few pockets fat.
> And I have issue with people who would chose to have exotics over the stunning array of natives this land has given us.



Why would you assume they would choose one over the other if they were legal ? I have stunning animals from practically every continent on Earth. I see no reason to choose one over another although I do favour South America


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## Jacknife (May 8, 2014)

fallenfeathers said:


> If you really wanted to look at it from that angle it could potentially benefit the economy & pet industry as a whole. *I know a few people who would be right into reptiles if they had access to what people in the U.S & UK have access to*





boa said:


> Why would you assume they would choose one over the other if they were legal ? I have stunning animals from practically every continent on Earth. I see no reason to choose one over another although I do favour South America



You've said it right there yourself, people you know aren't interested, but would be if exotics were available. That statement directly implies they've got no interest in legally kept natives whatsoever.


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## champagne (May 9, 2014)

Badsville said:


> You've said it right there yourself, people you know aren't interested, but would be if exotics were available. That statement directly implies they've got no interest in legally kept natives whatsoever.



Exactly and that's why those people just keep exotics illegally...


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## Owzi (May 9, 2014)

Interesting topic & one that isn't going to be resolved any time soon!
It's had me thinking lately- what exactly is an exotic species? Where do we draw the line? Most state laws allow animals native to Australia. Some only allow native to their state. Will a captive bred python really cause havoc in Tasmania? What about species that occur in both Australia & Papua New Guinea? GTPs have been brought up, White-Lipped Pythons have been debated lately. With roughly 50 species of reptiles, amphibians, birds & mammals shared between Cape York & PNG (probably more), why not allow a species list of the 'continent of Australia' which includes New Guinea? After all, PNG was a territory of Australia as recently as 1975. People on the mainland keep Tasmanian species- Tassie at its closest point is 240kms from the mainland. PNG at its closest point is 150kms from the mainland. I would consider this option because the land masses have been connected for the majority of their time & 'due to the spread of animals, fungi and plants across the single Pleistocene landmass the separate lands have a related biota' (thanks Wikipedia!). Due to the conflict in PNG also, I could see a benefit in some captive breeding of PNG species in Australia. I remember seeing the great John Cann talk about his trips to PNG & him saying "its basically Australia anyway". From memory he brought at least one endangered species of turtle back to Australia for a captive breeding program. I'm sure many private breeders would love the chance to help with captive breeding programs of endangered species from the 'Australian continent'- but that comes back to Gavin Bedford & Greg Miles Australian representative herp body which the hobby already seems to have destroyed. I'll stop thinking out loud now


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## Jacknife (May 9, 2014)

champagne said:


> Exactly and that's why those people just keep exotics illegally...



And now I say you're a bad person for not alerting the authorities of these peoples actions.


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## The_Phantom (May 9, 2014)

this is a great thread. very interesting.


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## champagne (May 9, 2014)

...


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## moosenoose (May 9, 2014)

Makes you wonder why Axolotls are legal? Imagine any other amphibian species being allowed into the country to become a potential bio-hazard! About as much a bio-hazard as a bred-here, grown-here corn.

You could also ask the question as to why in recent times the Magnificent Tree frog & File snake is allowed into Victorian collections, and what I call "State Exotic" snakes like taipans, adders & various other species have been given the green light?

It's like the wipe-off 5 commercials. It's all about consistently hammering out the untruths often & enough to get the vast majority to consume it.


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## champagne (May 9, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> Makes you wonder why Axolotls are legal? Imagine any other amphibian species being allowed into the country to become a potential bio-hazard! About as much a bio-hazard as a bred-here, grown-here corn.
> 
> You could also ask the question as to why in recent times the Magnificent Tree frog & File snake is allowed into Victorian collections, and what I call "State Exotic" snakes like taipans, adders & various other species have been given the green light?
> 
> It's like the wipe-off 5 commercials. It's all about consistently hammering out the untruths often & enough to get the vast majority to consume it.




Do hospitals carry all anti venoms or just local species?


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## fallenfeathers (May 9, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> Makes you wonder why Axolotls are legal? Imagine any other amphibian species being allowed into the country to become a potential bio-hazard! About as much a bio-hazard as a bred-here, grown-here corn.
> 
> You could also ask the question as to why in recent times the Magnificent Tree frog & File snake is allowed into Victorian collections, and what I call "State Exotic" snakes like taipans, adders & various other species have been given the green light?
> 
> It's like the wipe-off 5 commercials. It's all about consistently hammering out the untruths often & enough to get the vast majority to consume it.



That's an interesting point, I was on Gumtree last night & saw 3 Salamanders for sale (similar but not the same as an axolotl!) & I found myself wondering how they came across them. I've seen them for sale in petshops as well.


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## Retic (May 9, 2014)

moosenoose said:


> Makes you wonder why Axolotls are legal? Imagine any other amphibian species being allowed into the country to become a potential bio-hazard! About as much a bio-hazard as a bred-here, grown-here corn.
> 
> You could also ask the question as to why in recent times the Magnificent Tree frog & File snake is allowed into Victorian collections, and what I call "State Exotic" snakes like taipans, adders & various other species have been given the green light?
> 
> It's like the wipe-off 5 commercials. It's all about consistently hammering out the untruths often & enough to get the vast majority to consume it.



Ah the uncomfortable truth


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## kenny1 (May 10, 2014)

Blocka89 said:


> It's a shame their a nice snake I got to hold one at Australia zoo a few years ago it was about 2.5 m



Yes I have to agree with you there, I have had the opportunity to handle a big boa from st lucia island in the carribean and you have to have a mutual respect with the animal due to its shear size and temprement (st lucia boas tend to be big and cranky!).

One thing I do not agree with is the laws from keeping these animals.... yes I understand the concerns with diseases etc, but I have spoken to a couple of people that "illegally keep them & its a fact that over 90% of these animals have been bred in this country from animals that have been here for many generations, simply due to the penalties of getting caught smuggling animals in.

Surely there must be a way to legally keep these exotics? Perhaps another level of licencing like the endangered/venomous native category that we already have.
Even if it cost a bit more to fund the policing of keepers and how/where the animal is obtained, and even a veterinary check with costs charged to the buyer/seller 

I know this reply will ruffle some feathers but too bad, we all have the right to an opinion, its no different to keeping exotic birds, cats, dogs etc 
cheers kenny


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## Jacknife (May 10, 2014)

kenny1 said:


> Yes I have to agree with you there, I have had the opportunity to handle a big boa from st lucia island in the carribean and you have to have a mutual respect with the animal due to its shear size and temprement (st lucia boas tend to be big and cranky!).
> 
> One thing I do not agree with is the laws from keeping these animals.... yes I understand the concerns with diseases etc, but I have spoken to a couple of people that "illegally keep them & its a fact that over 90% of these animals have been bred in this country from animals that have been here for many generations, simply due to the penalties of getting caught smuggling animals in.
> 
> ...



Heres the major flaw in this argument. All environmental departments nation wide are already extremely underfunded and the government certainly won't give them a bigger budget for something like this.
And I'm ok with that.


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## kenny1 (May 10, 2014)

Yes I won't argue there, it would have to fund itself but if you knew how many "exotic" collectors were out there it would shock you.
I have seen some awsome collections out there in normal suberbia, and most of the keepers would have been more than happy to jump through the hoops to legalise they're hobby.
If it was monitored and developed by national parks along with the assistance of experienced volunteers it could be done and would lower the number of badly run black market crooks.
Just food for thought, we don't all see it the same but we all have a soft spot for reptiles, does it really matter what part of the globe it came from?


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## Jacknife (May 10, 2014)

kenny1 said:


> Yes I won't argue there, it would have to fund itself but if you knew how many "exotic" collectors were out there it would shock you.
> I have seen some awsome collections out there in normal suberbia, and most of the keepers would have been more than happy to jump through the hoops to legalise they're hobby.
> If it was monitored and developed by national parks along with the assistance of experienced volunteers it could be done and would lower the number of badly run black market crooks.
> Just food for thought, we don't all see it the same but we all have a soft spot for reptiles, does it really matter what part of the globe it came from?



Sounds harsh but for me, it does.

- - - Updated - - -



moosenoose said:


> It's like the wipe-off 5 commercials. It's all about consistently hammering out the untruths often & enough to get the vast majority to consume it.



Are you suggesting lowering your speed by 5kph WON'T reduce the severity of an impact or the distance required to stop?
Do you have any comprehension of physics?


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## Snakewoman (May 11, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Folks from Geelong aren't generally considered that bright anyway



So people from Geelong aren't generally considered bright by people making a sweeping generalisation? How ironic.


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## Jacknife (May 11, 2014)

Snakewoman said:


> So people from Geelong aren't generally considered bright by people making a sweeping generalisation? How ironic.



Yeah, but it's ok, people from Geelong don't really understand the words 'sweeping generalization'. 
And look up irony in the dictionary, a sweeping generalization can be true.


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## Snakewoman (May 11, 2014)

I love boa constrictors but I'd rather go to wildlife parks or zoos to see them in this country. Hopefully that fine will make this person think twice before making that mistake again.



Badsville said:


> Yeah, but it's ok, people from Geelong don't really understand the words 'sweeping generalization'.
> And look up irony in the dictionary, a sweeping generalization can be true.



Yes generalisations can be true, but you made the positive claim therefore you have to prove it. Got anything credible to offer?


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## Retic (May 11, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Yeah, but it's ok, people from Geelong don't really understand the words 'sweeping generalization'.
> And look up irony in the dictionary, a sweeping generalization can be true.



I'm sure lots of them know generalisation doesnt have a z in it


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## Snakewoman (May 11, 2014)

boa said:


> I'm sure lots of them know generalisation doesnt have a z in it



Exactly, the z is American spelling. Oops!


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## Jacknife (May 11, 2014)

boa said:


> I'm sure lots of them know generalisation doesnt have a z in it





Snakewoman said:


> Exactly, the z is American spelling. Oops!



I completely agree, but according to autocorrect and spellcheck on this website it does. So take it up with the website builder not me 




Snakewoman said:


> Yes generalisations can be true, but you made the positive claim therefore you have to prove it. Got anything credible to offer?



Take a trip to Geelong some time...

Oh this is fun.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 11, 2014)

Have been to Geelong many times but I don't know why you insist this is important.
Should I be seeing Boa's, Retics & Burms in the street??


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## beastcreature (May 12, 2014)

A lot of petty squabbling going on here.


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## Jacknife (May 12, 2014)

beastcreature said:


> A lot of petty squabbling going on here.



It wouldn't be a proper herp community without it.


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## Snakewoman (May 12, 2014)

Badsville said:


> Take a trip to Geelong some time...Oh this is fun.



Burden of proof not met. That was indeed fun, I do like stirring now and then.


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## Jacknife (May 12, 2014)

Snakewoman said:


> Burden of proof not met. That was indeed fun, I do like stirring now and then.



I hate when my finely crafted, peer reviewable experiments don't give me the results I want...


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