# illegal snakes??



## junglejane (Aug 5, 2006)

Just wondering how common are illegal snakes in Australia?? A friend of mine has a bright orange corn snake, and i was thinking if he has one i wonder how many other people in Australia have exotics, coz i'm pretty sure my friend wouldn't even have a licence?? I know if you have one ya not gonna tell me which is fine but just curious if people come across them much?


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## cam (Aug 5, 2006)

alot


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## cam (Aug 5, 2006)

i mean nothing 8)


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## junglejane (Aug 5, 2006)

sorry its probably a pretty sensitive subject :? Anything anyone posts in here means nothing but their opinion.... :wink:


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

There is a hell of alot of exotics available.
I have been offered red tailed Boas, Chameleons, An alligator (which I really wanted) Corns &amp; Milk snakes in the past.

Be aware that soon you will be reading several posts telling you to roll over on your friend &amp; inform NPWS &amp; RSPCA on them. It is the right thing to do after all. (no sarcastic smile incase its taken as a snide remark lol)


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

Whoa, lucky i spotted this one early.... Hang on for a minute guys, i've gotta go down stairs and grab my beer.... Just wait a minute


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## cam (Aug 5, 2006)

popcorn?


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

hehe my fault my fault


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

Ok i'm back! Go for your lives!  

No popcorn ran out on the carpondro thread.


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## raist (Aug 5, 2006)

*exotics*

Perhaps informing yr friend of the penalties of owning an exotic might suffice as a deterrance (not keen on dobbing someone in, personally). I've read on various threads, a whole multitude of opinions on the subject but just out of curiousity, where do people get offered these 'exotics'? Dodgy pet stores?


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## hugsta (Aug 5, 2006)

waruikazi said:


> Ok i'm back! Go for your lives!
> 
> No popcorn ran out on the carpondro thread.



You bring the beer, I've got the popcorn...... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## CodeRed (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: exotics*

If its a nice corn snake, then confiscate it and tell him your doing him a favour


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## MoreliaMatt (Aug 5, 2006)

this could get quite good!


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## MrSpike (Aug 5, 2006)

gess here we go again, this is going to turn into another sh*t fight... alot of people have them, alot of people hate them, personally if i could legally keep them i would because there are some blody beautiful exotics out there... what NPWS dont realise is that there probably just as common as uassie herps. IMO there should be a license outn there for exotics, but iwth very very very strict guidlines, like if one dies you must provide NPWS with the body to confirm it has no excaped, and if it does escape you get fined, and the license should be worth a few hundred for say 3 years (maybe $100 a year?)

Juts my opinion


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## tyrone (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: exotics*



raist said:


> just out of curiousity, where do people get offered these 'exotics'? Dodgy pet stores?




Depends u could offered it becase a friend of a friend knwos u own herps... or a mate get soffered one and he doesnt want it and offers it to u.....

Or yes it could be a dodgy pet shop (i knwo of a few that have been "busted" trying to sell red eared sliders, red tailed boas and corns

And to answer JJ question there are thousands of them floating around....... hell those boas that were handed in, in Vic was only a very small perportion of an actuall Boa clutch.....What happened to the rest of them ?? &lt;&lt; I dont think DSE relised if someone hands in say 10 juv boas what happened to the other possible 15 juv's :roll: 

But these days the Government bodies (DSE, QPWS whatever they r) are setting plenty of traps and doing searches all the times so there is every chance u will get caught.


And 10yrs jail or a $110,000 doesnt sound inviting to me :wink:


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## krusty (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: exotics*

And 10yrs jail or a $110,000 doesnt sound inviting to me :wink:[/quote]

any one who belives in that crap needs there head red.nobody gets those sort of fines..........JMO.


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## tyrone (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: exotics*

Yes i know Krusty but that is the maximum.....hell u could be the unlucky one who does get the first every $110,000 fine lol


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: exotics*

How's your beer going Hugsta? :?:


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: exotics*

Beer would be warm at this rate.
Bring back the biff! lol


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: exotics*

People who keep exotics are just like cat owners! It is bringing in an animal that if it escapes could reap havoc on our native wild life, spread diseases and cause irrefutable damage to our hobby :!: Just like the cat owners, cats and the hybrid breeders and hybrids, exotics and the breeders/importers of exotics should either be locked up in prison for at least the ten years that is on offer or be hung, draw and quatered :!: 

How's that JandC :?:  :twisted:


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## krusty (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: exotics*



tyrone said:


> Yes i know Krusty but that is the maximum.....hell u could be the unlucky one who does get the first every $110,000 fine lol



a lot of pepole i speak to think that is what every one with exotics gets.
and i do know that is the MAXIMUM.


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: exotics*

But it is still a possibility Krusty, you can not deny that.


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## hazzard (Aug 5, 2006)

I was offered this once and I'm definitely in OZ. It's one of many I get offered every year.

I heard on the grape-vine that he surrended it with 50 hatchlings and a mate (no fine)

The most exotic things I have in my collection are rats


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

Did he get in trouble for the zebra skin?


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## krusty (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: exotics*



waruikazi said:


> But it is still a possibility Krusty, you can not deny that.



i dont deny that.


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## hazzard (Aug 5, 2006)

There was a zebra skin about a dozen head trophies of African Animals. He obviously had contacts. I went there looking for nice Woma hatchlings. they were not on paper either.


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## waruikazi (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: exotics*

That is good because other wise you would be living in denial LOL  :lol:


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## raist (Aug 5, 2006)

*exotics*

I believe enforcement needs to get tougher if there is to be ANY impact on the trade of exotics in Australia. Authorities need to get creative in terms of discouraging the public from even considering owning an "illegal" animal. The current laws and policing practices being what they are, it would be easy to keep an exotic pet without the autorities ever finding out you had one. Or two. Or three. From what i gather from various other threads on this forum, controlling the exotic population and its growth has become somewhat of a farce (no disrespect to the staff of relevant agencies, many times its a matter of faulty policy or lack of resources). 
Hell, i'd risk owning an exotic, but if they start including mandatory jail time (however short) or banning herp ownership for life as a penalty i might reconsider.


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## Australis (Aug 5, 2006)

hazzard said:


> There was a zebra skin about a dozen head trophies of African Animals. He obviously had contacts. I went there looking for nice Woma hatchlings. they were not on paper either.



I dont know if you really need "contacts" to get yourself exotic animal products, you can legally buy them from time to time.

Not too long ago, well a couple of years maybe :? there was a big auction of exotic animal goods in QLD i think.. one intresting item was a pair of African wart hogs (i think) that had been converted into drink dispensers thru the anus :shock: 

it was on the news, so im sure a few people hear would remember it.


Matt


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## junglejane (Aug 5, 2006)

Jeez didn't realise this was gonna be a dramatic topic!!! I didn't know there were that many illegal snakes in Australia, and all the people wanting to stand up and scream at me to tell the authorities, I don't know his address so i honestly can't help and besides that hes not the type of person you get into trouble :wink: Damn don't know if this topics gonna end up good enough to bring out the beers and doritos and salsa....... :lol: 
Sorry for stirrin up the pot......
 Jane


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

Why appologize for a valid question?
You wern't to know how pedantic the mob are about wildlife laws.


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## tyrone (Aug 5, 2006)

Yes dob em all in .... bwahahahahahahaha


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## raist (Aug 5, 2006)

*exotics*

hey Junglejane don't apologise! we all love a good s**tstorm  freedom of expression. Don't dob your mate in! just MY opinion


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

*RE: Re: exotics*

God damit, this is where the black market needs a shop front....


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## MrSpike (Aug 5, 2006)

why would you dob your mate in? anyone who says " dob him/her in there keeping illegal reptiles" just think, would you dob in your parents or siblings if they bought a chameleon for 200 cause it looked good?


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

lol alot of non dobber innerers here now.
Get a few of the mob against them though and they will either go silent or agree to dob them in lmao. Get a backbone.

Besides you can't just turn a blind eye to illegal activities like this regardless if its friends or family. Just ask the passionate 1's


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## triptych_angel (Aug 5, 2006)

I know u can get them through certain people in the rebels. Other than that No idea.


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## Australis (Aug 5, 2006)

Yeah you would wont to end up in max security JCR :lol: 


Matt


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## newtosnakes (Aug 5, 2006)

hee hee Jane, it's all good, you are just giving J&amp;C something to do and something to amuse the rest of us by readin..... :lol:


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 5, 2006)

Thats right


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

I think there would be heaps of members here from Qld keeping illegal exotic pest species without even knowing it, check this link Magpie posted in the wolf pup thread
http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/pests/legislation/pdf/animal_permit_education.pdf
Unless there are relevant exemptions(there could be but i havnt seen them) anyone keeping species that dont live in Qld are keeping pest species that can only be kept with a public education permit :? 

As for exotics from overseas well there are always going to be ppl around who can get you "anything". Generally its easier to get illegal things than legal things for eg. illegal reptiles dont require a permit and you can get anything, illegal drugs dont require a prescription and you can get anything, illegal guns dont require a licence and permit and you can get anything etc.

I personally think exotics should be legalized to eliminate the very real threat of exotic disease. Permits for all potentially destructive exotic animals(including cats etc) should be available and regulations and inspections should be regular and comprehensive to virtually eliminate the chance of release/escape. Cost for this monitoring and regulation should be covered largly by permit fees and supplemented with tax.
Licences to keep native animals should be free and keeping native animals should be encouraged over destructive exotic species.
end of rant


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## krusty (Aug 5, 2006)

junglejane said:


> Jeez didn't realise this was gonna be a dramatic topic!!! I didn't know there were that many illegal snakes in Australia, and all the people wanting to stand up and scream at me to tell the authorities, I don't know his address so i honestly can't help and besides that hes not the type of person you get into trouble :wink: Damn don't know if this topics gonna end up good enough to bring out the beers and doritos and salsa....... :lol:
> Sorry for stirrin up the pot......
> Jane



it's all good we need something like this every now and then.


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> I know u can get them through certain people in the rebels. Other than that No idea.


Mate they are a fully legit organisation of motorcylce enthusiasts its pretty stupid to suggest otherwise IMO :|


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## Australis (Aug 5, 2006)

cris said:


> > I know u can get them through certain people in the rebels. Other than that No idea.
> 
> 
> Mate they are a fully legit organisation of motorcylce enthusiasts its pretty stupid to suggest otherwise IMO :|



So is the Mafia :lol: 

Matt


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

cris said:


> > I know u can get them through certain people in the rebels. Other than that No idea.
> 
> 
> Mate they are a fully legit organisation of motorcylce enthusiasts its pretty stupid to suggest otherwise IMO :|


Very well said, mind you theres always the few black sheep, which give the flock a bad name.

Just like theres crooked cops in out police force, but those type of things are usually quickly swept under the carpet before the media gets their hands on it, but things like "Outlaw bikies" is something the police usually make sure the press is there for, its called position justification


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

MattQld83 said:


> cris said:
> 
> 
> > > I know u can get them through certain people in the rebels. Other than that No idea.
> ...


Yes, some of their operations are legal, but usually stem from an illegal source of money... theres far more "black sheep" in this flock then normal ones

However *Un-hijacks thread*


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## x.RandomHero.x (Aug 5, 2006)

i know a guy from the rebels


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## AntaresiaLady (Aug 5, 2006)

Don't say Mafia in front of my ex husband.....you'll have a bunch of dudes in black suits on your door step. Scarey crap!! :shock:

You can keep illegals if you want, heck you can keep what you like....but I think you should be trying to help conserve and respect our native species by helping those who are fighting the influx of exotics into Australia, not polluting our ecosystems with species that have the potential to become prevalent and wipe out our wonderful native flora and fauna. 

Personally I would NEVER keep an exotic reptile, regardless of how beautiful they are, as I for one respect the laws of this country as is directed to me by my personal religious beliefs, and I believe that Australias flora and fauna should be preserved for the generations to come. We've lost and are losing so many species every day- we as Australians should be helping to stop it happening. 

Heres a thought: Once all the people who just want to sit by and allow our country to be over run with exotics sit on their asses for long enough, and the country is over run with exotics...then no one will have to worry any more about these kind of topics. 

I deleted this paragraph because I felt it useless to speak- because no one gives a crap. 

JM $2 Worth.


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> i know a guy from the rebels


We got escorted by about 6 of them while going to the school formal in a limo plenty of d cars got excited :lol: :lol: :lol: 
but yeah this thread is about illegal snakes and stuff not bikies

I personally will probably keep exotic herps in the future, Im thinking about keeping parasite free AHGs as a food source and i have always been interested in axolotls especially getting them to metmophasize.


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

^ lol now THATS style, pull up at a school formal in a limo escorted by rebels


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> ^ lol now THATS style, pull up at a school formal in a limo escorted by rebels


Made more noise than anyone else too LMAO should have seen the face of the year 12 coordinator :lol:


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

Apart from the introduction of diseases (of which some are already here), how much damage can these exotic snakes inflict?? I mean have a look at the amount of damage that dogs, pigs, cats, foxes, toads etc etc have done to the native population! I am sure that if the SENSIBLE introduction of exotic reptiles is legalised and the quarantine side of things is adhered to, then a lot of the inherent problems will be minimised dramatically. At the least it's another money making machine for the government. 

It took quite a while for me to speak up but there you go... my two cents worth.

P.S. Hi all!! :wink:


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

Hi Ags welcome to the site, i agree 100%


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## AntaresiaLady (Aug 5, 2006)

I guess my worry Ags is that exactly like you said- look what these other animals have done. 

I hate to think what the red eared sliders are doing to the environment out east somewhere (I'm sure someone has the details)
I was also told there is an established colony of corn snakes in the wild in NSW somewhere too....

So they do have the potential to cause chaos. People have licences to keep Australian reptiles, and if you go through the archives on this site, and any other sites like it- you'll find hundreds, if not thousands of posts saying :'HELP! I LOST MY SNAKE.....HELP MY SNAKE ESCAPED'....and so on. If people who are licenced to keep Australian animals can lose them/accidentally let them out...the only way that introducing illegals as keepable would be to create robot keepers who would never leave an enclosure open, or build a shoddy escapable enclosure. 

So long as there are humans...there will be human error. And when it comes to species being released into the wild that are NOT native- human error is something the environment can't afford.


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

Thanks cris, 
I guess what I am trying to say is... we didn't think things through when we brought all those domesticated animals to Oz, but we have the opportunity to be grown up and sensible about bringing some of these beautiful animals in - with minial (further) effects on the environment. Heck who wouldn't want an albino red tailed boa?? Ohter than someone who already has one!! :shock:


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## peterescue (Aug 5, 2006)

no interest what so ever


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

Fair point AntaresiaLady, perhaps make it an advanced license like the restricted one here in QLD. That way you are assured (hopefully) that the person is experienced and capable of keeping an exotic. I know my proposal has holes, but to me it is a way of regaining some control of the animals that are brought into Australia and therefore reduce the lucridity (is there such a word) of black market imports. I would think that the NSW amnesty was aiming along the same lines.


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

Yeah, they thought toads would be great, they didnt take into account the sugar cane bug spends most of its time more then 1m off the ground.
They thought that the bird dubbed the "flying rat" was going to be great to fight grasshoppers (or whatever it was), but they didnt take into account that it was a bird that stayed in the cities where it originated.

I think ANY exotics should only be kept under close supervision, with many things preventing it from comeing in contact with the outside world.


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

You have to admit though Peter, People are funny creatures... they always want whats rare or what they can't have. I am sure there is some species out there that yu look at and think "Damn i'd like to have that!"


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

What you say is true AntaresiaLady but if legalized properly the chances of escape can be minimal compared to the current situation, who would release an animal if they could easily sell it or take it to a petshop without commiting a serious offence.

The release of red ear sliders and possibly corn snakes is proof that what we have now doesnt work.

If proper laws regarding the exotics are properly implemented enclosures would have to be up to a particlur stanard etc and fines or jail time could be implemented if you try to conceal the event of a escapee. Im am dreaming to think that such a sensible approach could be taken but oh well.

I would also suggest keeping exotic animals should require previous experience keeping non destructive species first in a similar way to how keeping dangerous elapids is restricted in most states, I dont often hear of ppl saying "help help my tiger snake has escaped".


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## Rennie (Aug 5, 2006)

Well cris, now that you mention it, has anyone seen an inland taipan around the Bankstown area?


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

hit the nail on the head cris! besides when it comes down to it people will ALWAYS get what they want if the want it bad enough... some people obviously don't think that the harsher penalties will ever be realised either that or the just dont give a...


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## Boxing_pelican (Aug 5, 2006)

Ags said:


> Thanks cris,
> I guess what I am trying to say is... we didn't think things through when we brought all those domesticated animals to Oz, but we have the opportunity to be grown up and sensible about bringing some of these beautiful animals in - with minial (further) effects on the environment. Heck who wouldn't want an albino red tailed boa?? Ohter than someone who already has one!! :shock:



Im sure people thought the same thing when alot of other exotic animals were brought out to Australia.


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

So rather than fight the inebitable impement a system that will limit any further damage!!


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

great spelling huh??


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

And i've scored a promotion. egg to snakelet.... it only took 7 odd months!


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## MrSpike (Aug 5, 2006)

> I dont often hear of ppl saying "help help my tiger snake has escaped".




Your right, thats because those people have strict guidlines to keep venomous snakes, so that by any chance one does escape, it should still be in the concealed room that the rest of the venomous snakes are in. And one thing that peeves me of the most if people saying "But we will get all these bad diseases from imported animals" MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN BRED IN AUS! sure they ,ay be able to have a dieses not in aus but unless its gone through several generations there isnt much of a risk!


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

I think you are right MrSpike. I've not kept venomous before nor do I keep in contact with people who do, but if you are right in that those animals are kept in a controlled room then there is no reason that the same idea can't be adopted for exotics. If people want them that bad legally, then they would follow those guidelines - I know I would.


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## MrSpike (Aug 5, 2006)

One main condition i would think there should be on an exotics license is that you have to have several years experience with keeping native reptiles and a hefty fine if one is lost. But i say if we can only keep native reptiles, bird keepers should only be able to keep natie birds, same with fish keepers dogs cats etc etc etc


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> Im sure people thought the same thing when alot of other exotic animals were brought out to Australia.


I dont think there is any link between the two myself, most(not all) feral animals we have today were introduced into the wild intentionally for a specific reason we are not talking about releasing animals into the wild or lettting them roam free as cats currently do. Its about letting ppl keep/import exotic herps in a controlled situation order to reduce the negative impact keeping them illegally has.


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

Then again we could just ban illegal reptiles :lol:


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> great spelling huh??


http://www.aussiepythons.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-22320.html
You have only been here a few hours and you have already entered the elite team welcome to the elite group of those challenged with english skills and not speaking their minds :lol:


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

I am truly honored!


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## Reptile City (Aug 5, 2006)

I hope it never happens!
NPWL told me one reason is &amp; the most reason why, is it will affect the live stock industry. 
The cost to our primary producers &amp; government will allways win before a few herpers that want them as pets.
There is heaps of risk with disease &amp; parasitics &amp; worms plus many other nastys.
Sure I would love a few Exotics to keep but comensence says no way.
We dont need them anyway.
I keep 21 differant species of Australian reptiles &amp; would love to keep heaps of the other NATIVE species, but I can only keep so many at a time.

What would some off you guys do next?
Breed Red-Tailed Boas with Carpets?
Corns snakes with Childrens?

Jason


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 5, 2006)

People want what they can't have, or what is rare, or what is hard to get.
When these people have money, that means there is a market for these things.
I belive this new licence you speak of which is only given to the most experianced, with enclosures within enclosures (like inside a sealed room) would be great, but its never going to close this market, only make these snakes avaliable to the people who wish to legitametly obtain one. its never going to close the market, or stop these non-native reptiles being bred in oz, just like the whole class 1 licence doesn't stop people who shouldn't have snakes and whatnot, obtaining them, but it gives us the chance to legally obtain one.


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## Ags (Aug 5, 2006)

I can see your point Jason. You're basically saying that it isn't cost effective for them to implement it. 

Which means that no matter how much a freaky snake keeper jumps up and down they won't do it cause it is no benefit to them. With the outwards message of sorry we can't do it due to effect on native flora and fauna.


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## cris (Aug 5, 2006)

> There is heaps of risk with disease &amp; parasitics &amp; worms plus many other nastys.


Yes there is now while no imported animals are quarantined(except for zoos).


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## MrSpike (Aug 6, 2006)

> Breed Red-Tailed Boas with Carpets?
> Corns snakes with Childrens?



WTF Thats like breeding apes with humans, AINT GOING TO HAPPEN!


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## Rennie (Aug 6, 2006)

I'd start importing GTP's if they made exotics legal, just think how much you could make before the price rapidly drops to the $300 they're worth everywhere else.


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## MrSpike (Aug 6, 2006)

screw the gtp's, get the jags!!!


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## cris (Aug 6, 2006)

> screw the gtp's


that would make an interestin hybrid :lol:


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## MrSpike (Aug 6, 2006)

:shock: :lol: *imagins a green human walking and starting giggling*


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## raist (Aug 6, 2006)

*exotics*

Its as simple as the principle of supply and demand. As long as there is a market for something, someone somewhere will find the means get it and make a buck out of it. The moral question of whether to own an exotic or not, based on the variety of reasons given, cannot be forced onto anybody who simply won't listen. People want what they want and will usually find a way to get it. Most of the world isn't idealistic enough to do the right thing. Educating people on why NOT to own exotics can help but i think the allure of owning something labeled "exotic" would still be far too tempting for some people out there.

MrSpike - Green human walking around - wonder if he needs to coil around a pole at night to sleep :lol: be a shame if he could only mate in spring, through spurs in his a**se


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