# PVC/Polyethylene plastic enclosures!



## KWKW (Apr 21, 2011)

Been looking at afew international sites and am seeing so many builders of PVC/[FONT=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Polyethylene [/FONT]plastic reptile cages such as Constrictors Northwest etc but dont want to really want to buy international but they are just so much cheaper with the Aussie dollar going so strong. 
But is there any builders here in australia that can match it with quality of the US bunch??
can someone list australia's PVC/Polyethylene plastic enclosure builders?

Ok so nobody builds these type of cages in australia?


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## KWKW (Apr 25, 2011)

anyone no anybody who works in building plastic cages in Aus???


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## Snake_Whisperer (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm working on a design as we speak. I expect to hear back from my supplier this week with a quote. Once I have the details nutted out, I will launch a thread on it here!


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## -Katana- (Apr 25, 2011)

WOW!

I like those but I shudder at the thought of what they'd cost.


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## KWKW (Apr 25, 2011)

cool snake whisperer! look forward to seeing what you have on offer.

I also like the pull out draw design cages made by monster cages very smart design for arboreal species like greens


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## -Katana- (Jan 29, 2012)

BUMP!

Hey there SW. Have you got any news on your PVC enclosures?

Thanks,
~K.


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 29, 2012)

URS do some


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## -Katana- (Jan 29, 2012)

I saw those but I don't like them.


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## euan (Jan 29, 2012)

I make PVC cages, I have shown them at the Qld expos.
Biggest problem is the expense of the materials, not cheap.
Send me a PM and we can talk.
I have not used wood in any of my cages for over ten years now.
The benefits of the newer materials over wood are huge.
I also use others products cheaper than the PVC which I can flat pack and you can glue it togeather yourself.


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## -Katana- (Jan 29, 2012)

Here are some awesome US sites that show just how good PVC enclosures can look.

SENTEC - Custom Enclosures and Guarding

Plastic Reptile Cages, Tanks and Racks. Snake, arboreal, lizard and turtle light weight custom flexwatt heated enclosures.







euan said:


> I make PVC cages, I have shown them at the Qld expos.
> Biggest problem is the expense of the materials, not cheap.
> Send me a PM and we can talk.
> I have not used wood in any of my cages for over ten years now.
> ...




Thanks for that Euan but I was just curious to see how SW was going with the concept.

You should post pics of your enclosures!


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## euan (Jan 29, 2012)

I should have specified I was replying to KWKW mainly 
Will try to get up photos tomorrow.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeh, flicked that program due to costs. My experience tells me few folks are too keen to pay over $300 for a 4' enclosure, price for a 1200L x 450H x 600D was going to be over $700. Good on folks who make them though, I loved the idea, just wasn't practical for me. Only solution I found was to buy bulk, but all I could get was a shipping container full! I don't have room for a dining room table, certainly couldn't store a container full of PVC sheet!


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm actually building myself a fiberglass enclosure as we speak and it's proving hexy in my pocket I think 700 for a PVC enclosure is ok considering they will last forever. I would of bought them. 


Cheers Brenton


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## Mr.James (Jan 29, 2012)

I'll make u a black plastic enclosure for $700  give me a week!


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

Mr.James said:


> I'll make u a black plastic enclosure for $700  give me a week!



Do you take PayPal!


Cheers Brenton


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## Mr.James (Jan 29, 2012)

No i only take paynow.


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

I like the idea of plastic enclosures and considered making some until i realised how much it would cost especially compared to melamine. I did happen to find some massive tubs though which were 1200 x 600 x 600 or there about and then another size at 1200 x 900 x 600 but they were about $300 or more before freight and the effort of modifying them into enclosures so decided against it. I'm definately interested in finding out how much other people can make them for tho.


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## DanNG (Jan 29, 2012)

Cheapest price I have found for Black HDPE is $220.00 for a 2440 x 1220mm sheet - trimmed & pre-drilled... 15mm thickness. 
That would make a 4x2x2 enclosure. Add black tracks and glass and Bob's your uncle.


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

It seems hard justifying spending that much compared to the cost of a sheet of melamine... would you happen to know how much it was for a sheet in 10 or 12mm?


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

But melimine will not last forever so add up how many times you will replace the enclosure over a lifetime of a snake. 


Cheers Brenton


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## DanNG (Jan 29, 2012)

Not too much cheaper for smaller thickness.. and you get the problems of bowing & sagging.. so its worthwhile going with 15mm. 
Im working on a 4 cube GTP enclosure at the moment.. but going for a seamless/bonded finish... rather than screwed together


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

By seemless do you mean your plastic welding it or something different? I may have to give it a shot when i get a job lol


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## DanNG (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah pretty much plastic welding. Still looking at materials.. HDPE or Extruded PVC etc. 
Glass sliding doors in track.. or round corner acrylic hinged doors etc.. lots of options 

Has to be black + black perches, be able to hide a heat panel from front on viewing.. and use LED daylight and moonlighting on timers.. those are my goals.

a 4-cube set up would use 2.5 sheets.


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Sounds good mate, is plastic welding a hard skill to master? I may have to do some research and give it a shot, keep us updated with how your build goes.


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

Plastic welding will take a average person a couple years to learn how to do it properly. And if you don't know what your doing don't try on anything important because you will destroy it. 


Cheers Brenton


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## kr0nick (Jan 29, 2012)

My uncle used to own plastic fix on the sunny coast. But hasn't done it in years. DanNG where did you get those prices from as you can buy plastic welding tools off ebay but I don't know if they are the real deal or not.


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

A plastic welder will use plastic rods and a heat gun it's like oxy brazzing. 


Cheers Brenton


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## DanNG (Jan 29, 2012)

Im not going to weld myself, looking for a plastics company to do the whole thing for the right price


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## kr0nick (Jan 29, 2012)

br3nton said:


> A plastic welder will use plastic rods and a heat gun it's like oxy brazzing.
> 
> 
> Cheers Brenton


Yeh that is what they are I think
And DanNG same here I think PlasticFix has gone bust after my uncle sold it which sucks ***.


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Yeah, i've seen the stuff on ebay too wondered how good it would be being so cheap... Do you have much experience with plastic welding brenton? What specifically makes it so difficult is it just difficult to get the plastics to blend and bind without warping the plastic?


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## eipper (Jan 29, 2012)

You do realize that the sheet of hdpe will grow 24 and 12 mm respectively for every 15 degrees c above 20. 10mm per 1000mm exp rate.

This causes the the welds to snap and the sheets to warp. The additional problem of hdpe is nothing sticks hence why it is used for grease lines so you cannot use silicone or similar to provide a flexible joint to cater for expansion. It is also quite heavy. PVC lead free is a better option. Make sure you specify lead free as it does release small amounts of lead especially under heat

Cheers
scott


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## DanNG (Jan 29, 2012)

Or we could all just share the freight cost in shipping some already made from the USA lol..


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 29, 2012)

put me down for a stack of 3x2x2 



DanNG said:


> Or we could all just share the freight cost in shipping some already made from the USA lol..



make it 2 stacks, what the hell,lol


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

You'd think if we could convince a plastic company to produce them using injection moulding they could produce them at a reasonable price over here. Out of interest how much would freight costs be from the US? lol


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## kr0nick (Jan 29, 2012)

I fired an email at A company that sells plastic sheets so I will see what they say.


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

JungleGuy said:


> Yeah, i've seen the stuff on ebay too wondered how good it would be being so cheap... Do you have much experience with plastic welding brenton? What specifically makes it so difficult is it just difficult to get the plastics to blend and bind without warping the plastic?



Yes I do it's everything about it it's exactly like brazing. Looks easy but is not the most fun thing to do. 


Cheers Brenton


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

br3nton said:


> Yes I do it's everything about it it's exactly like brazing. Looks easy but is not the most fun thing to do.
> 
> 
> Cheers Brenton



No worries, i'll leave it to the experts and save the frustration.
Cheers


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## browny (Jan 29, 2012)

it's not to different in process etc to tig welding, you have to make sure there is no warping, expansion etc and is very hard to master....no I don't plastic weld btw although I have tried it a few times and very similar idea to how you would tig weld, have seen 2 very experienced tig welders take to it like a duck to water too.


as for suppliers maybe try talking to kitchen builders, they are using these types of plastics for bench tops as well as whole units now days (especially outdoor kitchens), they also have the correct adhesive for the plastic which makes it totally seamless and since it can be curved etc it makes for less joints in general


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## kr0nick (Jan 29, 2012)

I found A product called PVA coated celuka foam boards but I don't know how strong they are.


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## Erebos (Jan 29, 2012)

That's the best stuff ever. 


Cheers Brenton


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Would you be able to screw it together or would it have to be welded? I can imagine it would be significantly cheaper and lighter.


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## Hoplophile (Jan 29, 2012)

Anyone looked at black acrylic? A plastics fabricator here in Melbourne is going to make me a prototype. I'll post some pics when its ready.


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## Russ2 (Jan 29, 2012)

What about molded plastic, Ie: like a water tank or horse water trough?
You fill up a mold with granulised plastic, put it in a furnace and hey presto you got something that is UV stabilized, approved and tested to hold water for human consumption and no joins whatso ever?
Just a thought


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Russ2 said:


> What about molded plastic, Ie: like a water tank or horse water trough?
> You fill up a mold with granulised plastic, put it in a furnace and hey presto you got something that is UV stabilized, approved and tested to hold water for human consumption and no joins whatso ever?
> Just a thought



Yeah i thought about that but i figured the cost to produce the mould would make it very expensive unless you were to produce a large number of enclosures, not sure how true this is but i assume thats how it would be anyway.


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## Russ2 (Jan 29, 2012)

Give me a little time and I'll let ya know


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## JungleGuy (Jan 29, 2012)

Russ2 said:


> Give me a little time and I'll let ya know



Cheers, definately interested to see what you find out.


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## Russ2 (Jan 29, 2012)

Should be able to make a cube, rounded corners on the inside and square on the outside with an open top.
The only join would then be the roof.
Cut a hole in one of the sides for your door or sliding glass then hey presto.
Sorta light weight, strong, stack-able and easy to clean.
let ya know in a few weeks.


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 29, 2012)

Russ2 said:


> Should be able to make a cube, rounded corners on the inside and square on the outside with an open top.
> The only join would then be the roof.
> Cut a hole in one of the sides for your door or sliding glass then hey presto.
> Sorta light weight, strong, stack-able and easy to clean.
> let ya know in a few weeks.



why not just make it so the front of the enclosure is the top of the mould? save having to cut out a peice of the plastic for you glass then

would that work?


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## JungleGuy (Jan 30, 2012)

maddog-1979 said:


> why not just make it so the front of the enclosure is the top of the mould? save having to cut out a peice of the plastic for you glass then
> 
> would that work?



Yeah i'm thinking that would be better too and maybe get them to just put two strips of plastic one up the top and one down the bottom for extra strength similar to how melamine enclosures are. Hopefully that would minimise bowing especially when stacked.


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## tyson001 (Jan 30, 2012)

it would be possible to make for about $500 for a 4x2x2


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## wokka (Jan 30, 2012)

I have a lot of celluka enclosures from when i used to have a lot of gtps. I looked into importing eskies without lids, with the idea of turning them on their side and replacing the lids with sliding door track. We ended up going for celluka for the breeder's enclosures, and your standard kitab tubs on their sides with plastic track and glass doors for the juveniles. All our animals live in cool room panel buildings so heat loss is not a big problem, but in normal houses lack of insulation is a problem as plastic and glass are lousey insulators.


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## -Peter (Jan 30, 2012)

eipper said:


> You do realize that the sheet of hdpe will grow 24 and 12 mm respectively for every 15 degrees c above 20. 10mm per 1000mm exp rate.
> 
> This causes the the welds to snap and the sheets to warp. The additional problem of hdpe is nothing sticks hence why it is used for grease lines so you cannot use silicone or similar to provide a flexible joint to cater for expansion. It is also quite heavy. PVC lead free is a better option. Make sure you specify lead free as it does release small amounts of lead especially under heat
> 
> ...



This means your sliding doors fall out and your Pseudechis guttatus get loose.


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## eipper (Jan 30, 2012)

Good reason to have herps in an escape proof room Peter.


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## -Peter (Jan 30, 2012)

eipper said:


> Good reason to have herps in an escape proof room Peter.




Very much so.


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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

Lol . Also I got an email back from the plastic welder they can do what I want but I am waiting on A quote.
Russ sounds like A plan I will definitely keep an eye open for this


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## euan (Jan 30, 2012)

Here are some photos of my cages.
I find them very easy to clean and robust.
Celluka has very similar insulative properties to plywood.
If one looks at the enclosed environment we keep our animals in, in general, and compares that to our own living area it is similar.
Basically very few people keep their animal enclosures in areas of extremes.
Thus worrying about how insulative a material is for enclosure construction is not normally necessary.
Obviously how we can do things in the great state of Queensland is different to those suffering living in southern states 

Whoops I pushed the wrong button
Here are the photo captions left to right top to bottom.
1 outdoor goanna cages, made from alu profile and stainless steel mouse mesh
2 python cages 1m x .5 x .5 with different colours this rack is on wheels
3 venomous hide box under an unfinished cage. It allows the snake to be locked in the hidebox or the cage while removing the hidebox or vice versa
4 60cm cube cages
5 in floor routed heat cable
6 the same cage with astroturf over the heatcable and showing the water bowl which is also routed into the base
7 I tried building German style cages from alu and glass but the correct profiles are not availalbe in australia
8 python cages again
9 sames as 4 but with built in glass dams for using with rodents and dasyuirids
10 sames as 4


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## JungleGuy (Jan 30, 2012)

They look good euan, do you happen to know how much it would cost to make a 4 x 2 x 2 with the thickness of the materials used in the second pic?


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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

Wow Euan are those all Celluka?
I am thinking of using this, What is the strength like for stacks like yours?


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## euan (Jan 30, 2012)

The problem with using the alu skin as in pict two it flexes to much. I strengthen it with alu angle which is fine for 1m lengths. With 1.2m lengths if you drop the cage or bash it too much it can bow.
I guess it depends on how clumsy you are 
But about $350 for a 4x2x2 cage only, no heating or lighting.


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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

Lol good idea mate, I might look into that.


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## JungleGuy (Jan 30, 2012)

I may have to do some research and give it a shot


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## euan (Jan 30, 2012)

No the thin ones are alpolic which is cheaper than celluka
Pict 3.4.5 are celluka
I use celluka for some things and alpolic for others depending on spp to be housed.
Strength is good, each stack is on wheels and full as you see with substrate glass heating animals etc.. real light.
The rodent stack has sand as a substrate and you can still easily pick a cage up.
A four foot cage empty no glass you can pick up with one hand easily


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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

WOW algood thanks mate I was chasing the name of that other product.


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## Mr.James (Jan 30, 2012)




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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

Hey james, Where did your thread get moved to as I can't seem to access it ATM


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 30, 2012)

it probly got deleted cos he was offering to sell/build enclosures, but is not a subscriber



kr0nick said:


> Hey james, Where did your thread get moved to as I can't seem to access it ATM


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## kr0nick (Jan 30, 2012)

Ahh that would be it lol. Dogged


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## Mr.James (Jan 30, 2012)

Deleted by a mod. 

The price was free? Cant you make enclosures for people...? 

LOL!

I was a subscriber for years until it just ran out.


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## Erebos (Jan 30, 2012)

That looks trick james


Cheers Brenton


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 30, 2012)

the enclosure does look really good. i would never of put black track on white. Mr.James bringing the interior decorating to an enclosure near you!!!


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## browny (Jan 30, 2012)

on the topic of the molded plastic enclosures..
aren't they being made already and for some years now, whats wrong with them, high price tag or what? can't say I have looked at the price of them when I have spotted them.


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## Erebos (Jan 30, 2012)

maddog-1979 said:


> the enclosure does look really good. i would never of put black track on white. Mr.James bringing the interior decorating to an enclosure near you!!!



Black tracks break the white up thumbs up. 


Cheers Brenton


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## maddog-1979 (Jan 30, 2012)

very expensive , nothing under $500 that ive seen for a 3x2x2 , that doesnt include lights or heating, and i dont like the colours they come in, or the shape, they are not just a plain box, there are ridges everywhere



browny said:


> on the topic of the molded plastic enclosures..
> aren't they being made already and for some years now, whats wrong with them, high price tag or what? can't say I have looked at the price of them when I have spotted them.


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## Mr.James (Jan 30, 2012)

Not to mention they are weak, sag and have poor thermal qualities.


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## DanNG (Jan 30, 2012)

Looking good Mr James, but does it come in black?


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## Inkage (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone find any builders?... considering buying US..Would rather buy domestic though.


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## -Katana- (Feb 27, 2012)

Actually it looks like Greenmad is going to be importing them and selling them, Inkage.

Here is the thread.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/pvc-cages-180067/


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## Erebos (Feb 27, 2012)

Here's some I built we are producing these if anyone's interested please pm me.










Cheers Brenton


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## Shadow86 (Feb 27, 2012)

they are nice. pvc foam board is it?


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## Erebos (Feb 27, 2012)

Shadow86 said:


> they are nice. pvc foam board is it?



Thanks and Yes with CNC routed perspex doors as I will never be able to use just plane PVC here in Canberra they have very poor heat retention but PVC cages have came a long way since the ones I first looked at so maybe there better now


Cheers Brenton


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## Shadow86 (Feb 27, 2012)

i was looking to build outta this,cause mdf/particle board deteriorates abit.but they stop selling it up here so still looking for supplier.they look great, how they go with moisture retention?


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## PMyers (Feb 27, 2012)

Shadow86 said:


> i was looking to build outta this,cause mdf/particle board deteriorates abit.but they stop selling it up here so still looking for supplier.they look great, how they go with moisture retention?



Not quite Mackay, but Allstar Plastics sell it on the Gold Coast.


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## benjamind2010 (Feb 27, 2012)

I imagine these are the next step in the evolution of reptile enclosures. Being 100% plastic that does not break down with exposure to moisture and has seamless welding to keep moisture inside the enclosure it would be perfect for amphibian habitats too. I bet GTP enclosures would be the perfect application for enclosures build with these materials. You could use all sorts of different glues that would be great for use with PVC that could be used to attach various things like dowels and fake branches and even hide boxes attached to the ceiling. Much easier with chemical welding with plastics...wood tends to be a tough one, but with plastics it becomes a whole lot easier as there is no mess with nails or wood glues - and the bonus is that plastic glues are actually chemical welds so unless something was really wrong with the bond things will never come loose.

The only issue with acrylic perspex is they can craze (thousands of tiny cracks/splits) that over time can eventually destroy the structure. This happens over a lengthy period of time, but there are solutions such as using laminated anti-crack perspex panels that will not break even if they have crazed to the point of being not being able to see through them.


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## Erebos (Feb 27, 2012)

My partner and I are building our enclosures and because of there light weight we can flat pack and send them to you
















here's a few more pictures of the humidity it holds in there. 


Cheers Brenton


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## Shadow86 (Feb 27, 2012)

thanks Pmyers i'll hit them up for prices. yeah i can see they hold humidity really well.you say you guys build them. wanna pm some prices, if thats ok


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## PMyers (Feb 27, 2012)

Shadow86 said:


> thanks Pmyers i'll hit them up for prices.



2440 x 1220 sheets;
10mm $104
15mm $148
18mm $162
All including GST. Only called them myself this afternoon :lol:
Delivery would be a different matter


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## Mr.James (Feb 27, 2012)

Is that pvc foam board or integral skin pvc board prices?


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## PMyers (Feb 27, 2012)

PVC Celuka foam board. Stronger than many wood products apparently, and incredibly light weight. I don't know a great deal about it, as I haven't even started my own testing of the stuff yet. Here is the website in question PVC Sheets - UltraViolet UV Stabilised. Flexible PVC
Hope that helps.


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## Erebos (Feb 27, 2012)

My name is Brenton. 


Cheers Brenton


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## Mr.James (Feb 27, 2012)

Good prices. It is what I use for my enclosures.


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## leighroyaus (Feb 27, 2012)

PMyers and you just screw these together like you normally would melamine?


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## Shadow86 (Feb 27, 2012)

if i had the room right now i would buy some at those prices why not. *thinks of ways to squeeze them in*


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## PMyers (Feb 27, 2012)

br3nton said:


> My name is Brenton.
> 
> 
> Cheers Brenton



Haha. Yeah, whoops. Brenton is the one selling those nifty looking enclosures. Dunno what their made out of, but they look great!
Sorry mate, I thought the query was toward the cost of the sheets 



leighroyaus said:


> PMyers and you just screw these together like you normally would melamine?



I haven't worked with them yet, so I can't say for sure.


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## Erebos (Feb 28, 2012)

One of my guys enjoying his new PVC cage






Cheers Brenton


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## Chondrobsessed (Aug 29, 2012)

Hi guys just looking for this exact thing!
Not sure if this has already been discussed in another thread but I found a site: PVC Reptile Cages | PVC Reptile Cages Australia
Also Erebus, are you still creating?


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