# What problems can you get breeding snakes?



## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

so im breeding bredlis next season how do i start to do it and what are the problems that come with breeding???


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## Ozzie Python (Nov 16, 2010)

there is a fair bit of info on here, however i recommend you get a copy of "keeping and breeding australian pythons", herpbooks will be able to sort you out. It will detail the preperation leading up to the breeding season, cooling, introduction dates, prelay shed, incubation, hatchling care etc. you are better off to get the book and get the accurate information rather than trying sort the good from bad on the net.


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

One problem is moving on all the hatchies.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 16, 2010)

The biggest problem you'll encounter breeding bredli is getting rid of the babies. I'd also suggest that you phrase your announcement in terms like 'I hope to breed bredli next season'... it doesn't sound like you have much experience, and the world is full of good intentions (although you'd be doing the world a favour by NOT breeding bredli in the near future...)

Jamie


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## scorps (Nov 16, 2010)

I dont agree with the whole cant rid of them, you probably just cant get rid of them at the prices you are chasing, It all comes down to supply and demand


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## mungus (Nov 16, 2010)

Ozzie Python said:


> there is a fair bit of info on here, however i recommend you get a copy of "keeping and breeding australian pythons", herpbooks will be able to sort you out. It will detail the preperation leading up to the breeding season, cooling, introduction dates, prelay shed, incubation, hatchling care etc. you are better off to get the book and get the accurate information rather than trying sort the good from bad on the net.



I think this is the response we should be giving an inexperienced herper.
He may want to keep the whole clutch or beter still give them to some of his mates.


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

Yes i dont have have experince with BREEDING but i have had people say they'd buy them of me and i was thinking id sell them for about $150.... but yeah.....


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

So what pythons are in Demand???


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## Cheyne_Jones (Nov 16, 2010)

Jags... Thats about it IMO...

I have struggled to get rid of stuff this year... I have been selling adults at $100 bucks each, not a drop of interest at anything higher...


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

There really isn't anything selling atm like they were a few seasons ago. Best advice you could get atm is to keep the things you enjoy and don't worry about breeding.


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

> *WANTED: Bredli and costal carpet female!*
> *or any beeding pair of snakes or pythons. *


 
Do you have any pairs atm?


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## shellfisch (Nov 16, 2010)

Ok, so people who know their stuff are trying to tell you the market is not really the greatest at the moment.
I'm listening, you should too


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

got a 2 bredli 1 spotted and 1 costal and 2 bearded dragons


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

Thanks da donky , i think ill breed the bredlis for fun 4 a while!


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## Scleropages (Nov 16, 2010)

Get deposits for all the baby's before they lay eggs. Solved!!


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

Dylan tell us a bit more information.

What kind of set up do you have, what are your temp cycles, feeding regime, animal weights, animal ages etc.


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

live in FNQ dont have temp cycles, i feed my costal every 3 days, 2 weaner mice and feed my bredli boy 2 large rats every week and girl 2 every 2 weeks and my spotted 1 fuzzie every week, dont know there weights but there deffently dont look runty, and ages costal 11 months, bredli boy 3 and girl 6 years, and spotted 10 mounths!


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 16, 2010)

dylanthomas said:


> Thanks da donky , i think ill breed the bredlis for fun 4 a while!



Part of my first post in this thread was tongue in cheek, the other part was serious - breeding large clutches of pythons 'for fun' is not a responsible attitude in these times of oversupply. Unless you have something that people want, or that is in demand at a given time. The oversupply of particular species due to uncontrolled breeding 'just because you can' is becoming a major problem for the hobby/industry. Do the hobby a favour and forget the breeding thing...

Jamie


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

sorry i meant breed them once...


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

Enclosures?


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 16, 2010)

At the moment, with the number around, do the hobby a favour... don't... even once...

J


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

Okay fine ill leave it for a couple of years!


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

@waruikazi bredli boy 4 foot tank, hes 5 foot, girl big "cat aviary" thing shes 7 foot and costal and spotted are in 2 diffrent 3 foot tanks


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## hornet (Nov 16, 2010)

if your able to keep them all or at least most of them and mayb get rid of a few to your mates for free or just dirt cheap i dont see any issue in breeding them but as others have said there is a major oversupply of pythons so dont expect to get rid of them easily or at all if your do breed


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

True ....... alot of money feeding the little suckers!


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

though she aparently had only 8 babies last time... before i had her!


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

dylanthomas said:


> True ....... alot of money feeding the little suckers!



The time is a bigger issue. First few feeds aren't unusual if they take an hour each hatchie, that could be upto 40 hours a week just feeding let alone cleaning etc etc.


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

anyone else got somthing to say???


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

Mate if you're going to do you're going to do it. Just be aware that you will more than likely have trouble moving hatchies on in the current envioronment.


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## dylanthomas (Nov 16, 2010)

okay Thanks everyone.


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## Scleropages (Nov 16, 2010)

If you think you know enough and have enough people wanting to buy the baby's go for it.Just work out all the costs etc beforehand.But centrals seem to be one of the less wanted pythons going around atm.


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## Radar (Nov 16, 2010)

Sure, you may have issues getting rid of them. May. But if you are going to get some experience and learn a bit about your animals, as well as some new skills (like how to deal with problem feeders) then there really isn't a good reason not to do it, we all have to gain experience somehow, and they are a pretty solid species to start with. Don't expect to make money from it and if you do get a bit it will be a bonus. There is people in this thread telling you not to do it that have helped 'oversupply' common species in the past.....grain of salt....


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## waruikazi (Nov 16, 2010)

So many people seem to think or imply that to become an accomplished keeper that you need to breed the stock you have. That just simply isn't the case. The only experience you get from breeding is... breeding!

If you want to learn how to deal with problem feeders (which i can't understand why
you would) then buy a fussy or non-feeder (it will more than likely be cheaper than breeding and feeding an entire clutch). If you want to learn more about your animals in gerneral, a good book on the biology of the species will be cheaper and tell you more than you could ever observe during breeding. 

There are great reasons not to do it. The major reason being the welfare of the offspring. One reason I stopped breeding was because it was becoming difficult to rehome them. 



rednut said:


> Sure, you may have issues getting rid of them. May. But if you are going to get some experience and learn a bit about your animals, as well as some new skills (like how to deal with problem feeders) then there really isn't a good reason not to do it, we all have to gain experience somehow, and they are a pretty solid species to start with. Don't expect to make money from it and if you do get a bit it will be a bonus. There is people in this thread telling you not to do it that have helped 'oversupply' common species in the past.....grain of salt....


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## cement (Nov 16, 2010)

I've had some large female bredlis for sale and haven't had one enquiry. They are both great lookers, fat as mud and BIG, easily 30 plus eggs, but no takers. I'll end up keeping them 1) because they probably won't sell and 2) I like big snakes that absolutely smash their food.

Breed them myself? no way, not now.


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## pythons73 (Nov 16, 2010)

Feeding them will cost you more then there worth.(Especially) in the last 12months ALOT of people are having trouble getting rid of last seasons-early this seasons hatchies..Ive seen some stunning snakes 4 sale recently and there still 4 sale,MOST wouldve sold quickly a few years ago,especially at the price there selling them...Bottom line is its YOUR choice,if you wanna end up with a heap,thats your problem,just remember 20+hatchies being fed every 7days is 80mice-rats x 6months+ is ALOT of rodents...


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## Bax155 (Nov 17, 2010)

dylanthomas said:


> Yes i dont have have experince with BREEDING but i have had people say they'd buy them of me and i was thinking id sell them for about $150.... but yeah.....


$75 is probably a more realistic price these days!


Pythoninfinite said:


> Part of my first post in this thread was tongue in cheek, the other part was serious - breeding large clutches of pythons 'for fun' is not a responsible attitude in these times of oversupply. Unless you have something that people want, or that is in demand at a given time. The oversupply of particular species due to uncontrolled breeding 'just because you can' is becoming a major problem for the hobby/industry. Do the hobby a favour and forget the breeding thing...
> 
> Jamie


 
Does that mean you won't be breeding anything this season Jamie? I doubt it 
Funny how people who make a good wad each season from breeding snakes like to try and convince newbies not to breed!!

I say go for it, give em away, flood the market LOL!!


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 17, 2010)

Interesting comment from you Bax155 - your insight into what I make (a good wad...???') is very cheeky of you, and quite inaccurate.

Just for your information, and to push you back into your box, I bred NOTHING this year, despite having mature pairs of GTPs (3), bredli (3), Gammon Range Carpets, and a few others...

As for your last comment 'I say go for it, give em away, flood the market LOL!!' you prove yourself to be a total goose!

Jamie


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## Bax155 (Nov 17, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Interesting comment from you Bax155 - your insight into what I make (a good wad...???') is very cheeky of you, and quite inaccurate.
> 
> Just for your information, and to push you back into your box, I bred NOTHING this year, despite having mature pairs of GTPs (3), bredli (3), Gammon Range Carpets, and a few others...
> 
> ...


 
That comment was not only intended for you but others that like to try and stop people from breeding 
Saying you bred nothing does not mean you did not try but does it?
I find it hard to believe you would not pair up your GTP's when there was a thread a while back where someone had paid you a deposit for a GTP this season, or am I getting people mixed up??
I've been called worse LMAO!!! Name calling what a classic APS tactic when things are not quite going your way!
All the best Jamie, better luck next season with your breeding efforts!

Baxter..


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

hi guys, ive read all the comments on here so dont say not to. cause ive got that... i want to breed bredli's next season for my first time my only concern is if my female isnt big enough. she is 2 years old a it rounder than a 50c coin and 1 and a half meters to 2 meters long.... i want her to incubate the eggs. will she be ok to do it?


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## Echiopsis (Jan 5, 2011)

Gay snakes can be a problem, ive got a cracker woma here thats got the sex drive of a 90 year old Eunuch.

Ah well.


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## NETTEDGURU (Jan 5, 2011)

Echiopsis said:


> Gay snakes can be a problem, ive got a cracker woma here thats got the sex drive of a 90 year old Eunuch.
> 
> Ah well.


 
ahahahaha


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## beeman (Jan 5, 2011)

snakey_boy said:


> hi guys, ive read all the comments on here so dont say not to. cause ive got that... i want to breed bredli's next season for my first time my only concern is if my female isnt big enough. she is 2 years old a it rounder than a 50c coin and 1 and a half meters to 2 meters long.... i want her to incubate the eggs. will she be ok to do it?


 
Mate you wont be breeding Bredli next season!
Bredli are late maturing carpets and generally wont breed under 3-4 years old!
Plus you snake is way under weight for the size you have given in relation to diameter!
So no she wont be ok to attempt next year!


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## Braidotti (Jan 5, 2011)

snakey_boy said:


> hi guys, ive read all the comments on here so dont say not to. cause ive got that... i want to breed bredli's next season for my first time my only concern is if my female isnt big enough. she is 2 years old a it rounder than a 50c coin and 1 and a half meters to 2 meters long.... i want her to incubate the eggs. will she be ok to do it?



Your Bredli seems abit small

How often do you feed her, as to breed she will need to be alot bigger


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## matt01 (Jan 5, 2011)

I dont get why people are against breeding snakes particularly easy to keep beginner species like childereni and morelia. The more people breed the lower the prices will fall, this will make reptiles more accessible and appealing to other non herp keepers. Whilst in the states recently I went to an expo and was shocked by the prices of quality animals but there were so many people buying. 
This is just my opinion but i reckon you should breed your snakes but i wouldn't be expecting you will get $150 for them next season unless they are exceptional bredli.


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

hi guys thanks for your input... thats what i've been concerned about whether she will have the weight needed. i feed her a small to medium rat very 5 days. but she never seems to get bigger :/


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## Braidotti (Jan 5, 2011)

snakey_boy said:


> hi guys thanks for your input... thats what i've been concerned about whether she will have the weight needed. i feed her a small to medium rat very 5 days. but she never seems to get bigger :/



When you feed her is there a good size bulge ?


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

yes, i fed her today and its plain to see that she has eaten


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 5, 2011)

Ah thank god - it'll be another 2 years before this one's ready to go.

Jamie


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

ohh ok then... but one other question im buying a hypo bredli male to go with her. can i put them in the same enclosure? they are around the same size...


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## Braidotti (Jan 5, 2011)

snakey_boy said:


> ohh ok then... but one other question im buying a hypo bredli male to go with her. can i put them in the same enclosure? they are around the same size...



I wouldnt put them together, one day you will end up with a dead pet or maybe both.

It would be alright 99% of the time but its that 1% you have to worry about. Trust me I know about the 1%


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## Chris1 (Jan 5, 2011)

matt01 said:


> I dont get why people are against breeding snakes particularly easy to keep beginner species like childereni and morelia.



in my humble oipinion the problem is that the oversupply ends up in the freezer.....just cos tom dick and harry all felt the need to breed just cos they could,..


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## Waterrat (Jan 5, 2011)

snakey_boy, I know this may sound pedantic to you but you obviously know very little about keeping snakes, having to ask such basic questions here and you're rushing into breeding?


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

waterrat: yeah i know... i dont know much, thats why i joined this site to learn and get feedback from other more experienced keepers... ive read a bunch of books and surfed the web but nothing beats past experiences of others. i came on to get the opinions of others about what i want to do cause even thought ive been keeping snakes for 5 years now i still have no idea =)... please dont jump down my throat =)


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## Waterrat (Jan 5, 2011)

OK, I stay out of it.


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## yommy (Jan 5, 2011)

dylanthomas said:


> so im breeding bredlis next season how do i start to do it and what are the problems that come with breeding???


 
Research, research, research and the major problem is heart ache when the incubation goes wrong even though you did everything right. 

Joys of this great biological hobby we love. The best thing about it is there is always something new to learn.

But you wouldn't be dead for quids


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## snakey_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> OK, I stay out of it.


 
oh no waterrat, i was just saying that your totally right and that any and all input is greatly appreciated... i want to learn


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 6, 2011)

I know I've been blunt on this thread, but my main concern is the selection of species, not the notion of a relative newbie breeding his/her reptiles. Despite the highly innaccurate comments made about me and the intent of my comments, there is no reason why a relative newbie can't succeed and gain a lot from breeding reptiles. It's the selection of bredli and the fact that they can have enormous clutches of eggs that is the problem for me. There are heaps of breeders around who have young bredli from breedings 12 months and more ago, and the increasing surplus can only be bad news for the animals in the short to medium term. I don't give a toss about the reduction in price because of oversupply, it's the welfare of the progeny which should be a major concern with some of these highly fecund python species. The 'market' just is not big enough to keep absorbing the results of poorly planned, or totally unplanned, breeding projects, with species that can produce 40+ eggs in a single clutch. And unless you are prepared to fork out very large sums of money for food, for an indefinite period of time, you end up with babies that need to be unloaded as quickly as possible, and with scant regard paid to the welfare of the babies. If you are stuck with the majority of them for any length of time, can you afford the $60-$100 per week to feed them, let alone the cost of 40-odd tubs and rack and the heating to get them going?

If you could find a species which has appeal for you, and which isn't already in huge oversupply, I'm sure that the people here who have appeared negative would happily reconsider their comments, and many, including me, would be prepared to offer whatever advice you may need.

I absolutely acknowledge that there are 'newbies'... and then there are 'newbies'... Not everyone who learns to ride a bike needs trainer wheels. Your last few words... "i want to learn" 
may just put you in the latter category...

Jamie


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## Dragontamer (Jan 6, 2011)

he could always euthanize unwanted hatchies...


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## beeman (Jan 6, 2011)

Dragontamer said:


> he could always euthanize unwanted hatchies...


 
If thats the case then WHY breed them in the first place when there is an over supply!


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## Dragontamer (Jan 6, 2011)

> If thats the case then WHY breed them in the first place when there is an over supply!


By keeping only the nicest hatchies out of a clutch you better your lines without flooding the market with average animals...its done with other animals all the time


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 6, 2011)

I can see a first time, proud breeder popping 75% of his clutch into a freezer... of course he will, that's why he breeds them! And with bredli, you'd have to keep them for at least 12 months until they start to colour up.

And that's without the ethical issues raised by your rather silly comment...

Jamie


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## Waterrat (Jan 6, 2011)

Dragontamer said:


> he could always euthanize unwanted hatchies...


 
Great! So, he breeds because he can and what he can't sell goes into the freezer. Welcome to the hobby! We are advancing by the day.


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## adderboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow, breeding to euthanase. That sounds like fun (not). 

It would be just as well for potential breeders to know that A) it is a risk to the female. Female snakes can become egg-bound - a condition which will kill the female unless quickly identified and treated by a vet (ie surgery). Doesn't happen too often, but it is a risk every breeder takes. and B) the burden of developing, carrying and laying eggs taxes the female considerably. They lose around 30% or more of their body mass in one lay - think about that.

Then weigh all of this up against the potential upside. Sure, in a normal situation, the risks are probably worth it; but if the market is flooded with bredli, then is it worth it? Either you need to be prepared to euthanase most of the young, or you need to lay out quite a lot of money to hold onto them until one day, maybe, you sell them. Neither of those is a very palatable option.


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## Dragontamer (Jan 6, 2011)

> Welcome to the hobby! We are advancing by the day.


...wasn't it you who stated the hobby was on a downwards spiral?



> And that's without the ethical issues raised by your rather silly comment...



like i said this already being done with other animals...heck even zoos are doing it.


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## snakey_boy (Jan 6, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I know I've been blunt on this thread, but my main concern is the selection of species, not the notion of a relative newbie breeding his/her reptiles. Despite the highly innaccurate comments made about me and the intent of my comments, there is no reason why a relative newbie can't succeed and gain a lot from breeding reptiles. It's the selection of bredli and the fact that they can have enormous clutches of eggs that is the problem for me. There are heaps of breeders around who have young bredli from breedings 12 months and more ago, and the increasing surplus can only be bad news for the animals in the short to medium term. I don't give a toss about the reduction in price because of oversupply, it's the welfare of the progeny which should be a major concern with some of these highly fecund python species. The 'market' just is not big enough to keep absorbing the results of poorly planned, or totally unplanned, breeding projects, with species that can produce 40+ eggs in a single clutch. And unless you are prepared to fork out very large sums of money for food, for an indefinite period of time, you end up with babies that need to be unloaded as quickly as possible, and with scant regard paid to the welfare of the babies. If you are stuck with the majority of them for any length of time, can you afford the $60-$100 per week to feed them, let alone the cost of 40-odd tubs and rack and the heating to get them going?
> 
> If you could find a species which has appeal for you, and which isn't already in huge oversupply, I'm sure that the people here who have appeared negative would happily reconsider their comments, and many, including me, would be prepared to offer whatever advice you may need.
> 
> ...


 
ok like no offense soo doesnt apply here... are you telling be that because i want to be knowledge able and experienced keeper that im a total newbie that doesnt know what to do? and quite frankly what you just said was unbelievably rude i have the money and the means to keep 60+ hatchlings and i am prepared to hold on to them for as long as it takes. so please if you have nothing other to say than "your world may put you into the latter category" then get lost...oh and btws im sure you didnt just pick up a 2 wheeler and start riding it when you were 5


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## Waterrat (Jan 6, 2011)

Dragontamer said:


> ...wasn't it you who stated the hobby was on a downwards spiral?



No, I never said that, I put it up as a question - learn to read before you dig into me!


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 6, 2011)

snakey_boy said:


> ok like no offense soo doesnt apply here... are you telling be that because i want to be knowledge able and experienced keeper that im a total newbie that doesnt know what to do? and quite frankly what you just said was unbelievably rude i have the money and the means to keep 60+ hatchlings and i am prepared to hold on to them for as long as it takes. so please if you have nothing other to say than "your world may put you into the latter category" then get lost...oh and btws im sure you didnt just pick up a 2 wheeler and start riding it when you were 5



Hey - keep your hair on snakey_boy... if you read my post properly, I was actually suggesting that you may be one of the few who can do this with few problems, who DOESN'T need trainer wheels... BECAUSE of the last few words in your post - "I want to learn" - was, I thought, a commendable attitude and onw on which I was actually COMPLIMENTING you! 

You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick lol! BUT... I was suggesting that the species choice is not a good one. Believe me, even if you have the resources and time to look after 40+ hatchies, the thrill of breeding will wear off very quickly when you have so many hard to move babies around for months or even longer.

Jamie
,


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## Braidotti (Jan 6, 2011)

You should breed Black & White Diamonds instead of Bredli.
I havnt seen them for sale for a while just the high yellow ones.


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## Elapidae1 (Jan 6, 2011)

Lol at Jamie. Even when being nice you manage to raise hackles.

Snake Boy you have been given some vary sound advice all you need to do now is decide what you wish to do with it. 
GOOD LUCK with your decision.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 6, 2011)

"Lol at Jamie. Even when being nice you manage to raise hackles."

Yup - even when filled with the warmth of the Festive Season, I still can't crack a compliment . I try soo hard to be popular too, but I have no idea where I go wrong lol!

And I totally acknowledge that it's snakey_boy's decision... but he asked for advice. And my only advice is... find another species. And don't get me wrong, I love bredli, but there are just so many very handsome bredli around looking for homes right now, I just wonder why one would add even more into the system.

But... it's not my decision...

Jamie

J


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## adderboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, yes, Jamie, I remember it well - but back then, when in the employ of the WA Museum, you were heavily under the influence of volatile preservatives, so maybe it doesn't count?


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 6, 2011)

Ahhhh.... THAT'S IT!!! Formaldehyde on the brain...

J


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## Waterrat (Jan 6, 2011)

The dehydration is taking toll though, Jamie has to top up regularly with red.


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## shortstuff61 (Jan 6, 2011)

Braidotti said:


> You should breed Black & White Diamonds instead of Bredli.
> I havnt seen them for sale for a while just the high yellow ones.



I'll be trying when the time comes. 
Adult male on my display pic, lots of black not much white. And I have similiar but not quite as good looking female.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 7, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> The dehydration is taking toll though, Jamie has to top up regularly with red.



It's the only way to keep my cheeks pink these days Michael - formaldehyde does terrible things to your complexion !

J


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## Braidotti (Jan 7, 2011)

shortstuff61 said:


> I'll be trying when the time comes.
> Adult male on my display pic, lots of black not much white. And I have similiar but not quite as good looking female.



Yeah you cant beat a nice black and White diamond.


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## snakey_boy (Jan 7, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Hey - keep your hair on snakey_boy... if you read my post properly, I was actually suggesting that you may be one of the few who can do this with few problems, who DOESN'T need trainer wheels... BECAUSE of the last few words in your post - "I want to learn" - was, I thought, a commendable attitude and onw on which I was actually COMPLIMENTING you!
> 
> You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick lol! BUT... I was suggesting that the species choice is not a good one. Believe me, even if you have the resources and time to look after 40+ hatchies, the thrill of breeding will wear off very quickly when you have so many hard to move babies around for months or even longer.
> 
> ...


 
omg im soooo sorryy... i feel like such an *** lol. thanks or the compliment


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 7, 2011)

No worries matey lol!

J


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