# Something thats bugging me



## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

I have noticed alot lately, newbies posting threads about an animal there interested in asking a lot of questions because there genuinly interested about learning about these animals and there doing there home work, then members shutting them down saying "If you need to ask these questions your not ready" or something similiar. 

Isnt that basically what this website is intended to be. A helpfull forum where members can pass there knowledge on to other members, I beleive in the end its going to come down to a point where people will be to scared to ask a question in fear of getting blasted by everyone

A silly question is better then a silly mistake and alot of questions about a herp is better then a dead animal because the member was to scared to ask


Just my little outburst

Ben


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## Sel (Oct 3, 2010)

Agree!

As long as they havent bought an animal, and then come asking how to look after it..i think thats what most people have a problem with.


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## JAS101 (Oct 3, 2010)

i agree to a point- BUT there is alot of info out there on this forum , by doing a search they could find the info they are wanting .


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## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

ZOOJAS said:


> i agree to a point- BUT there is alot of info out there on this forum , by doing a search they could find the info they are wanting .




That is true, but its human nature to want a personal responce


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## JAS101 (Oct 3, 2010)

scorps said:


> That is true, but its human nature to want a personal responce


 lol yeah , i just think its a shame when there is all that info through out the forum that duznt get used when pepole cant be bothered to search or when they just dont know to . maybe there needs to be a sticky posted asking to do a search before posting a question ?.


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## Riggsy (Oct 3, 2010)

Ya hit the nail on the head there....

This is a great site to get some info and then go from there to more in depth books and or courses etc. I too think some are too quick to jump down the throats of some that are merely asking a few question for research. Sometimes it looks like those with the experience are just show boating about how much they know....but where did they get all their knowledge? Probably by asking someone a lot of questions then doing some more research...

However...there are also a lot of newbies that will be very quick to get an animal first then start asking questions later or wait until there is a problem with the animal then post a panic "Please help!" thread. Or they get one species and keep it for a while then think they have enough experience to keep something larger and more challenging.

It's all too easy to sit behind an anonomous keyboard and have a go at someone without having to face them. And it's frustrating to see someone making the same mistakes someone else just did a few weeks earlier. 

We should all give out helpful answers to questions where needed and also suggest some constructive advice when they're not heading in the right direction.


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## Daryl_H (Oct 3, 2010)

said quite well. only point ill make is its never good to see someone with little/no exp asking about the lace monitor care cause they just brought one. (freaks me out when people get crazy animals that they should have more exp b4 owning, due to the danger) and feel they need a bit of a shake up to understand the power/danger of the animal


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree, but I do get a bit annoyed when someone has gone out and bought an animal without even bothering to find out simple things like diet and heating requirements.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't help them, they obviously need some good advice lol


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## JAS101 (Oct 3, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> I agree but I do get a bit annoyed when someone has gone out and bought an animal without even bothering to find out simple things like diet and heating requirements.
> It doesn't mean we shouldn't help them, they obviously need some good advice lol


 i agree , and then u get pepole who post in the threads who havnt even owned the animal/s in question giving advice .


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## Nighthawk (Oct 3, 2010)

Then again I believe people also need to take into account the ease in which some animals can be purchased. Simply speaking it's simple to get a license and simple to purchase a python or lizard from a pet shop, but not all sellers (particularly pet shops which don't specialise in any particular animal), take an interest or offer advice to new owners. Then, once purchased, the newb would soon discover it's not as simple as 'tank and feed'. There are quite a few people who seem quicker to lash out than advise, when a simple explanation would usually suffice, and make said newbie less inclined to ask in future. If advice had been previously given then ignored I would understand the 'not ready, what an idiot, poor animal' take, but if it had been insinuated that the animal in question was simpler to take care of than is actual fact, I rather think it's not the new owners fault and fully encourage them to come forward and ask questions. Better that, as has been said, than a dead python and somebody who has now been put off ownership because of the cliquey attitude *very few* (definitely not trying to cause an argument or offence here) seem to have in the trade.


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## slim6y (Oct 3, 2010)

C'mmon Ben - you've been here for ages - you know how it works... don't you?

Firstly - a big note must prove their worth by shooting down a little guy - that's important, it often refers to their hemi size.... (of course).
Secondly - If a 14 year old asks a question - they have to be stupid - because the search function is so adequate.
Thirdly - if an argument doesn't form then the question wasn't asked correctly - they should re-ask it till an argument forms.

I can't remember ever being new - but I've learnt not to post in the 'help' section - because it won't matter how many times I tell someone they don't need to treat their branches that only seconds later a recipe with a cocktail for destruction is posted on the same thread...

No matter how many times I refer to the killing of toads as cruel and unnecessary - that some smart alec believes torture is the only way to rid us of the pest.... Which incidentally isn't as much of a pest as once thought says R Shine.... Printed in New Scientist....

So... Ben.... This is where we're at... we either have a big hemi... and need to boast about it to feel good about ourselves... or... we just sit back and have a giggle... because that's where the fun begins...


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 3, 2010)

Lmao Slim6y


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## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

Nailed it Slimey 

how you been anyway mate?


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## the jungle guy (Oct 3, 2010)

couldnt agree any more but it is a joke how some members instantly flame down some one for asking or telling them use the search function which isnt so crash hot, this is a public forum and any should be able to ask what they want when they want dont like it dont reply yea i agree something are really annoying and is a joke but still public forum 

its the ones who buys the animal then wanting advice is the problem not the ones searching and gathering as much info as they can before they purchase a reptile we should be encouraging this not flamming them down if only more people did research

my 2 cents


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## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

Yeah, I dont really care if someone goes out buys a python then posts something along the lines of:

" I just bought a gtp, its not feeding, do they need heat?"

if someone does that feel free to flame them


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## slim6y (Oct 3, 2010)

The problem with opinions is - everyone has one.... most are useless (except for mine) and some are just outrageous or even dangerous.

My opinions however are:

1) Relevant

2) Factual

3) Correct

4) Inspirational

5) Correct

6) Divine

7) Correct

8 ) Beautiful

9) Intuitive

and...

10) Correct

So - anything I say is obviously correct...

The one thing that pees me off more than anything though - is when I say/write something which is blatantly obvious, 100% correct and totally the only possible solution - then some utter complete twink of a plonker writes something else - which is clearly 100% codswollop, useless and the only possible solution that would be completely incorrect.... 

So - reality unfortunately exists on a plane somewhere between internetland and the etheral plane of gondwindallbundypogswollopton....


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## Wally (Oct 3, 2010)

Sorry slimey all your credibility flew out the window last weekend when you got on the Saints.


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## Nighthawk (Oct 3, 2010)

slim6y said:


> The problem with opinions is - everyone has one.... most are useless (except for mine) and some are just outrageous or even dangerous.
> 
> My opinions however are:
> 
> ...



"I was only wrong once, and that was when I thought I was wrong, but in actual fact I was right" lol


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## slim6y (Oct 3, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> Sorry slimey all your credibility flew out the window last weekend when you got on the Saints.


 
All Saints credibility went out yesterday with my dreams of ever supporting them again... go the GOLD COAST!!!! WOOOOWHO!!!

(now that should have got most of my credibility back)....


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## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

slim6y said:


> All Saints credibility went out yesterday with my dreams of ever supporting them again... go the GOLD COAST!!!! WOOOOWHO!!!
> 
> (now that should have got most of my credibility back)....



Mate the real grand final starts this afternoon


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## cagey (Oct 3, 2010)

As someone who researches solutions to problems and questions for a living there are are number of reasons that people ask questions;

1) It is being asked from a genuine naive basis.
2) Knowledge which has been gained by someone with experience is unknown to the inexperienced and a preventative solution ahead of time is not considered. 
3) The person is inexperienced in running searches and does not run the search in a way that finds the available information.
4) The results of the search are contradictory and the correct solution unclear.

If you are aware of a thread or other information which can assist someone, post it rather than reacting to the question. This way all reading the new thread can benefit from the links back to prior knowledge.

While the the location and use of the search function and Wiki appear obvious to people experienced with this site it may not be so obvious to the Newbie or people not experienced with running searches. 

I know I have asked questions on this and other sites due to 4).


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## 1issie (Oct 3, 2010)

I studyed and studyed and studyed to get a beardie.most of my threads are about there diet, coz the site i used to study said lettuce and stuff which was bad,so i asked you guys and i didn't get flamed,and asking question just expands their knowledge(like mine).so flaming people just is wrong, they may have not known.


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## leighroy6 (Oct 3, 2010)

im a fair newbie to reptiles ive only had my snake bout 2 months now, i did alot of research before buying my MD but ive gotten more info off peoples answers on here than anywhere else  ive only had one flaming from someone which was annoying but everyone else has been awesome in helping


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## scorps (Oct 3, 2010)

It's also anoying though when you give someone asking for help correct advice and they dont listen at all or hope something different because they arnt happy with the truth to there question


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## PicklePants (Oct 3, 2010)

i've copped "...from looking at your previous threads, you clearly have no idea on how to look after your animals. please don't get anymore until you can take care of the ones you already have..."

this was in response to asking for some advice on a hatchy that was refusing to eat and was getting dangerously skinny. i'd done my research (books and internet) and acted on what i had found, but nothing had worked. so i thought i was doing the right thing in asking for advice on here from more experienced keepers seeing as the breeder i got him from was absolutely no help.

some people were really good and offered suggestions, but i got really upset by the rudeness of others people. i don't take the responsibillity of looking after my animals lightly and was genuinely out of ideas and was getting really worried about my baby boy.

the fact that i had started 3 threads out of curiosity, and not actually asking for help, before this one clearly means that i am mistreating my reptiles and that i should have them taken off me.

i was highly offended and it made me want to leave the forum. some people need to get off the pedestals they put themselves on and realise that they had to start somewhere too.


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## Nash1990 (Oct 3, 2010)

I always use the search function before I post something, on the rare occasion the results are close to what I want to know, the question asked is still different to the way I want to ask it. Did that make sense?

You ask the same question that has been asked a million times because you want an answer to *your *question, not that other guys.

Just my two cents

And slim6y is always correct


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## redbellybite (Oct 3, 2010)

Asking QUESTIONS like I'M thinking of getting a such n such ,can anyone give me some good care sheet facts about keeping them etc? ..is fine and a good thing to ask because you are getting the info before you go out n buy ...I dont agree with, I bought a such n such and now how do I take care of it ? This type of question/s does make the average rep keeper MAD .... 
and I have no problem with people giving opinions that have worked for them because they either own that such n such or close enough to that species.. 
BUT when you have never had that species and or never had that type of situation and are only recycling what others have said and adding more obvious ' BS' to the post that could well in truely end up detrimental to the care of that rep or just to exercise your typing skills and dictionary/thesaurus useage DRIVES me insane as well ...


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## shellfisch (Oct 3, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> BUT when you have never had that species and or never had that type of situation and are only recycling what others have said and adding more obvious ' BS' to the post that could well in truely end up detrimental to the care of that rep or just to exercise your typing skills and dictionary/thesaurus useage DRIVES me insane as well ...



Or, just to get your name in print/boost your post count.....


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> Or, just to get your name in print/boost your post count.....


 
who says I do that


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## BJC-787 (Oct 3, 2010)

the problem with doing a search is you also get alot of threds that you don't want 
example i just did a search for incubators and the first page of results is 20 threads
here are all the threds as they were shown in the list
*
Microclimate Failures*
*breeding loan mix up.* 
*no thermostat setups* 
*help!! bearded dragon egg care* 
*Where to buy hovabator incubators in Sydney?* 
* [VIC] Herpstat ND, the best thermostat by far!* 
*first season for us and its a big clutch* 
*incubator confusion...* 
*




Sticky: Gtp - Essential Info* 
*Creative Incubators* 
*Herpstat ND, the ultimate in reptile thermostats! * 
* To: Kayz09* 
*Incubator recommendations* 
*Show us your Incubator setups!!* 
*quick question on incubation* 
*To: herptrader* 
*Breeding Projects * 
*Incubation* 
* [VIC] FS: Lucky Reptile Data/thermo logger* 
*Rock Python

*so just how effective is it to do a search really


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 3, 2010)

good point!


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## JAS101 (Oct 3, 2010)

BJC-787 said:


> the problem with doing a search is you also get alot of threds that you don't want
> example i just did a search for incubators and the first page of results is 20 threads
> here are all the threds as they were shown in the list
> *
> ...


 its ^^^^^ effective , look at all the info  im not saying searching isnt fool proof . but there is a tone of info > then once u get the list go throught the ones that say incubator first


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## BJC-787 (Oct 3, 2010)

there is 6 out of 20 that relate to incubators, 30% so that meens there is 70% of stuff i didn't want
so it is just quicker to ask the question again


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## persona (Oct 3, 2010)

_I agree with you Ben. Unfortunately, people today tend to see the wonders of the www as the be all and end all, expect direct and instant information, as opposed to doing the hard yards themselves._
_Not only is much real learning, 'lost in translation' in this manner, I consider it the least_
_satisfying and most frustrating way to find information._
_Ask 10 different people a question and you'll get 50 different answers._
_You may aswell survey strangers on the street._
_The best way to learn something has always been, and imo, always will be, first hand. _
_This is something I'm sure many 'experts' here have discovered for themselves._
_Personally I would never recommend any site to anyone looking for helpful information._
_If you want to research beardys, speak directly to beardy breeder, likewise anything else. _
_You dont go to a hairdresser for financial advice!_


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## Funkstaa (Oct 3, 2010)

I think it's unfortunate newbi's are flamed as great as google and books are, getting info from people that actually keep the species you're asking about I think is invaluable.



scorps said:


> It's also anoying though when you give someone asking for help correct advice and they dont listen at all or hope something different because they arnt happy with the truth to there question



I understand where you're coming from scorps but I think it's great when a poster asks/challenges the answers given... ( lets not forget we all do things differently so conflicting answers are often given, so questioning these are great to have a better understanding) but if they're being dingus's and obviously stuffing up - go to town : p


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## gycho (Oct 3, 2010)

I think an easy Dix would be a breeders register section and the valuable member post what reptiles they are experienced in and have the admin verify the knowledge of these people in the register and get other people to rate those members as usfull or not useful information


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## MDSTIM (Oct 3, 2010)

Hi Guys,

It's good to see such a worthwhile thread started....and I'm strongly of the opinion that no-one should ever get flamed, as all this leads to is open warfare and then people get ticked off/switch off to good advice/stop using a forum which is theirs as much as anyone elses/send angry pm's/etc.....*and after all, why have any of us got the right to flame anyone ??*

Rather than just having a good whinge about this situation, why don't we all take it upon ourselves to improve the forum. The great value that the "stickies" have should be reinforced by more people being prepared to research the information and put together new "stickies" or wherever else the information can be gathered to minimise searching/time wasting/etc.

Are there any other good ideas out there to improve the forum that we can put back to the administrators ?

Another area that I have a pet peeve about is people being prejudiced against others because they have "less posts than me", or "they are too young to have the experience", or "because they are female or male they know less than someone else".....*hey give it a miss and respect everyone else equally, (besides it's part of the rules on this site).*

I can't totally agree on a comment about some peoples ideas/experiences being the only valuable ones, mainly because there are so many different ways to "skin a cat", (please don't take offence if you are a cat lover....each to their own), and hence we all have to sift information and apply what best suits our own situation.

I hope I don't get flamed too badly by some of my comments....BUT I'm sure I will as some peole can't hold back and see others opinions as worthless.


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## JAS101 (Oct 3, 2010)

BJC-787 said:


> there is 6 out of 20 that relate to incubators, 30% so that meens there is 70% of stuff i didn't want
> so it is just quicker to ask the question again


 i dont think u get it , because u asking the question again will only add to the issue u seem to have with searching[ the so called 70 % of stuff u didnt want ] .


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## cagey (Oct 3, 2010)

My second, and last comment (maybe), "How do we get the experienced people on this site to develop and contribute to the topics in the Wiki?" I have just looked at "Mites" and there is no information there yet I know the information exists here if I do a search of the posts!


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## Darlyn (Oct 3, 2010)

Why isn't there a "frequently asked questions section?"


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## slim6y (Oct 3, 2010)

Darlyn said:


> Why isn't there a "frequently asked questions section?"


 
Well there is my friend....

Frequently Asked Questions - Aussie Pythons & Snakes FAQ away


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## Alldone (Oct 4, 2010)

It is hard being new. Sometimes I used to sit & stress "should I ask this" before I post a question coz I don't want to look like a moron & get shot down in flames. The majority of people on here are very helpful but some just seem to want to fight with everyone - usually for no real reason & almost always by hijacking some innocent person's thread about a totally unrelated topic. 

Reptiles can be tricky (particularly lizards!) & some stuff you really DO need to know straight away, so the best way is to do a search on here & if you can't find the info you need then ask away. When you're new to reptile ownership it's easy to find out new stuff all the time or to realise that something you're doing may not be ideal (case in point - I was feeding my pygmy beardies diced carrot, and saw today in a thread that this isn't good, so I whipped straight over to the lizard enclosure & grabbed it out). 

Now I just figure it's better to ask the question & get experienced people's advice than to royally ***** something up & endanger one of your animals.


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## Darlyn (Oct 4, 2010)

slim6y said:


> Well there is my friend....
> 
> Frequently Asked Questions - Aussie Pythons & Snakes FAQ away


Maybe that could be more predominant. I just seem to see the same questions all the time.


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## Colin (Oct 4, 2010)

Cheynei pythons said:


> couldnt agree any more but it is a joke how some members instantly flame down some one for asking or telling them use the search function which isnt so crash hot, this is a public forum and any should be able to ask what they want when they want dont like it dont reply yea i agree something are really annoying and is a joke but still public forum


 
Its a privately owned forum and members are subject to the rules of the site owner. 

This is why we have the "Herp Help" forum where members are supposed to be able to ask questions and receive intelligent, helpful answers without put downs and flaming. unfortunately there are always some people that even try to put down and flame people on this particular forum as well.. 

what I suggest is that whenever a member flames or puts down another member in "herp help" is to flag the offending posts using the triangle icon inderneath the posts to alert the moderators to look at these posts and if warranted, infract the poster accordingly.

this is the warning from the site owner regarding flaming, posting rubbish and putting down members in this section who are asking for help and advice:



Slateman said:


> You are welcome to advice the member to take the reptile to vet, but please *DON'T CRITICIZE PEOPLE FOR NOT DOING THAT. *
> If you have no helpful advice to post here, stay out and don't post in this forum.
> 
> *From now on we will issue infractions to people posting non helpful rubbish in this forum*


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## Snake_Whisperer (Oct 4, 2010)

Sadly, it is largely due to the amount of general rudeness and stupidity that a lot of keen and experienced herpers do not use this forum anymore. Normally I am not a fan of "dobbing", but in the case of getting flamed for asking for help and advice, go for it. The more of the forum trolls that get knocked off, the better this online community will become. I've even given up posting anything meaningful as so many times things just turn into a pointless arguement based on nothing more personal opinion and, *ughh* feelings! Driving people away from the hobby will do no one any good, especially for those trolls who are complaining that there is no one wanting to buy there "pure" common macs and coastals!


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## redbellybite (Oct 4, 2010)

Dont get me wrong I think asking good general questions is fantastic and very helpful to you as the snake/rep owner ..and most cases when the members see that it is a general question and you have thought about it before asking NO-ONE gets flamed ..You may get a bit of a joke ribbing (which some people need to know what is a 'simple laugh along with you' for asking a silly question to where it is an out right flame job)..In most of these post you get great answers and usually the only ones that get a flame are the ones that posted the most stupid NON helpful and maybe even damaging answers (in my opinion THESE deserve a flame not the thread starter)

On the other hand some deserve flaming ,especially when given good advice by numerous experienced species owners all with a similiar answer to the question that was asked in the original thread ..and yet the thread starter will argue and say things like well I will do it my way anyhow blah blah ..WHY ASK FOR HELP ???? you are already set in your own mind what your gonna do any how ...YOU NEED A FLAME ..

And the final one ..If you are going to post things like 'I pulled apart my diamond pythons and a purple thing came out and it was my mates friends best mates sisters snake ..and I didnt know it was a male when i put it with my female cause my mate got it off that person and had no where to keep it ..so i said throw it in with mine ...NOW WHAT SHOULD I DO ? .............YOU NEED A FLAME ...


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## shellfisch (Oct 4, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> And the final one ..If you are going to post things like 'I pulled apart my diamond pythons and a purple thing came out and it was my mates friends best mates sisters snake ..and I didnt know it was a male when i put it with my female cause my mate got it off that person and had no where to keep it ..so i said throw it in with mine ...NOW WHAT SHOULD I DO ? .............YOU NEED A FLAME ...



+1

Do such posters not deserve to know that they are idiots and deserve a rap over the knuckles?
Or do we all just shut up and have them think that what they do is ok? :?


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## Colin (Oct 4, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> +1
> 
> Do such posters not deserve to know that they are idiots and deserve a rap over the knuckles?
> Or do we all just shut up and have them think that what they do is ok? :?



If someone feels so strongly about what a member posts and want to say something to them about it then Id advise to use the private message function and keep it off the forums (especially the herp help forum) this is a privately owned forum with rules set out by the owner of this site. the site owner put these rules there for a reason and members are expected to follow and obey them.. 

Theres some members who seem to feel the site rules dont apply to them that continually want to post put downs, post rubbish, flame others and start arguments.. If these members dont want to follow the rules.. thats fine.. but please go somewhere else then.. 

heres a few of the rules: 



> Rule 1 - Be nice to other members. Any name calling or general nastiness will not be tolerated - this applies for posts in the forum as well as visitor messages on profiles, messages in social groups as well as conversations in chat.





> Rule 2 - Be tolerant of all other users. Remember, we have members of all ages and levels of experience and enthusiasm, of different nationalities, religions and cultures. Rude or racist remarks and hurtfully sarcastic comments will be deleted and you will be penalised. Bear in mind that a sarcastic comment that an adult would laugh at may be hurtful to a young member.





> Rule 5 - No flooding of the forums. Posts must be meaningful and not waste the time of other site users.





> Rule 6 - Posts must remain on the topic of the thread.





> Rule 10 - There is a limit of one membership per person. Multiple people in the same household can have an account each (after Administrator approval), but accounts created for any other purpose will be deleted. Note that if a member is suspended, all other accounts in that household may also be suspended.





> Rule 12 - Do not post public feuds or arguments in the forums or in visitor messages. If you have a problem with another member, then PM them directly or lodge a ticket with 'Feedback/Complaints' at the Support Centre.





> Rule 13 - If you have a problem with the way the site is run or the action taken by Moderators/Administrators, then you must lodge a ticket with 'Feedback/Complaints' at the Support Centre. We will not tolerate open criticism of the site or the way it is run in any of our forums. Nor will we tolerate any criticisms of the Moderators/Administrators. In some cases we will suspend account to protect other members with out giving any reason. We do the work in running the site, so we control how it is run. If you find that objectionable, please feel free to move elsewhere. Otherwise, we welcome your input and hope that you will enjoy your experience on APS.





> Rule 17 - Members may "bump" their posts no more than once every 72 hours. A "bump" post is defined as a post added by the thread starter that does not add any meaningful information to the existing thread.





> Advertising Rule 1 - No unauthorised auctioning or selling of snakes within non "Show and Swap" forums is permitted.





> Advertising Rule 5 - Members with Regular, Subscriber or Power Seller accounts are not permitted to advertise any businesses in their signature, avatar or username. This includes the use of any graphics, links, email addresses or slogans directly associated with such businesses.




heres the link to the full site rules:
Site Rules - Aussie Pythons & Snakes


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