# I love a good debate



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Over the last few months I’ve noticed a real improvement in my writing (typing?) skills and my ability to articulate ideas, especially in arguments/debates. This seems to correlate with when I first started becoming a real addict on this site. I’m noticing more and more that I look for debates (some could call it picking fights) to practice my skills and I think it’s a shame we can’t talk about religious topics on here because it’s one that I’ve become really passionate about lately. I really enjoy having access to so many people with so many differing opinions. I’ve found this is currently one of my best resources to have reasoned, rational conversations with so many people at once. It’s unfortunate that a lot of them turn into full blown arguments but I guess you just have to take the good with the bad.
Anyway, has anyone else made discoveries like mine or do I just need to get out more?

PS I realise it’s probably ironic that a post about improved writing abilities is so poorly written but I’m still learning.


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

I completely agree. Whilst my ideas on this site are scattered, and written poorly due to them being rushed, the debates are thoroughly enjoyable. I've always enjoyed a good debate, though. Writing is something I love, I found it amusing that in high school I got the highest marks out of year 12 for English, and didn't write anything until the night before, or even improvised on the spot for my oral assignments.

I just wish I passed art, because I only had 4 subjects (due to a business traineeship) and my art teacher failed me, so I didn't get the OP required to pursue journalism at uni. I was voted most likely to become a political activist at the formal, lol.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha that's fairly impressive. I'm an engineer and we aren't generally known for brilliant writing ability. So this has been a really fun, surprising way to improve it


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

I could never be an engineer, apart from monetary maths, I get lost.


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## SamNabz (May 31, 2011)

I heart grammar.


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## MSD Reptiles (May 31, 2011)

Agreed... part-taking in forum based discussions is fantastic for increasing skills and vocabulary. 

Maybe try an actual debate/discussion forum which is more specific to what you are wanting. That way you are also engaging people who are looking at things on the same wave length. Im sure you'll have some very interesting and informed 'discussions' on there.  

Here is one - People's Forum - Australia | Respectfully debate anything. In the open.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Oh awesome thanks Wanted. Do their discussions usually end in arguments or do they stay civil? I think there should be a general consensus on here that if you're going to get all sensitive and emotional you shouldn't get involved. There are a lot of members here who can stay civil and rational but unfortunately it only takes one knob to get offended and get a thread shut down. I could name about three members who do this on a regular basis and it really frustrates me.


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## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

i bet you do!


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## CrystalMoon (May 31, 2011)

I love debates, specially about religion and politics(I am not an expert but have strong opinions)I follow a very different spiritual path than most which 
can create interesting discussions to say the least. I am not as articulate as most on here, however I try not to come across as too dim  I had a private school education but left in
year 10 as that was the age when most apprentice Hairdressers were employed. Since, I have worked and travelled raised a family gained/lost a couple of Husbands and been generally too busy to concentrate on spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence construction. I am studing mental health at the moment and have found that nowwww I am having to pay more attention to these very things so I can achieve higher results in the theory side of my chosen career. I have veered off topic a tad  I enjoy reading the debates on this site, Most are very well articulated. Sometimes topics do become heated....But that is not neccessarily a bad thing, as long as it doesnt get to personl insults etc. To me a debate has to be passionate and heated as well as articulate  And I do feel the site is a great place to hone afore mentioned writing/debating skills.
A big "like" for debates :lol:


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha Crystal I love your "unique" additions to a lot of discussions around here. 
It really does frustrate me that I can't talk religion on here and I've flirted with the line more than once but I know of at least one guy who got suspended for stepping over it. So I'll just have to be content with my Facebook arguments instead


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## MSD Reptiles (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Oh awesome thanks Wanted. Do their discussions usually end in arguments or do they stay civil? I think there should be a general consensus on here that if you're going to get all sensitive and emotional you shouldn't get involved. There are a lot of members here who can stay civil and rational but unfortunately it only takes one knob to get offended and get a thread shut down. I could name about three members who do this on a regular basis and it really frustrates me.


 
Not a problem at all 8)

Ive never used the site, i only did a google search to see if their was something out there better suited, so im not sure how people on there are. It does say that its a site to 'respectfully' discuss/debate... but we all know how that can still end up. Maybe just trawl a couple of threads that interest you to see how people approach things. 

Let us know what its like if you have a crack at it! 

Cheers,

Matthew


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## lace90 (May 31, 2011)

Haha who doesn't?

I think you should stop being so hard on your writing skills, Sax. Your posts are some of the more enjoyable to read.


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> I could name about three members who do this on a regular basis and it really frustrates me.


 
LOL, am I one of the 3? Don't worry, I won't get pissy 



lace90 said:


> Haha who doesn't?
> 
> I think you should stop being so hard on your writing skills, Sax. Your posts are some of the more enjoyable to read.



I agree.


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## Tristan (May 31, 2011)

i must admit a good debate is quite enjoyable, unfortunately for most i see end up with people just stating their opinion (that's great) but they don't back it with any reason or evidence and that usually leads to people trying to debate opinions, and then people get offended and it becomes a fight  and thread gets closed 

i don't tend to partake too much in debates on this site as my knowledge on the topics is still growing and i don't have enough to be able to backup what I'm trying to say. tho i must admit i know a hell of a lot more now than i did a year ago


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Aww thanks guys.
KR I've seen you get upset at times but at least you stay rational...most of the time


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## fugawi (May 31, 2011)

Sax......mate........you REALLY need to get out more. Now I think about it......so do I.
I have to agree with you and add that I learn a hell of a lot during these debates. I find that I start to research things just to keep up and learn more and more about the subject. Because a debate can last for weeks online, I find I can learn a lot from tv, radio, internet, books, magazines etc then I can bring something new to the next post. 
Aargh....religion, it's funny, there are 3 taboo subjects I was taught not to discuss, politics, money and religion. We openly discuss politics and money on a daily basis here but religion is still a taboo. I don't understand. Most debates here have a "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" philosophy.........except religion. I can discuss drowning cats, using a cane toad as a golf ball but I can't bring up the subject of religion, why? Because it offends? But drowning cats doesn't? I just don't get it.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha very well said Fugawi


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## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Over the last few months I’ve noticed a real improvement in my writing (typing?) skills and my ability to articulate ideas, especially in arguments/debates. This seems to correlate with when I first started becoming a real addict on this site. I’m noticing more and more that I look for debates (some could call it picking fights) to practice my skills and I think it’s a shame we can’t talk about religious topics on here because it’s one that I’ve become really passionate about lately. I really enjoy having access to so many people with so many differing opinions. I’ve found this is currently one of my best resources to have reasoned, rational conversations with so many people at once. It’s unfortunate that a lot of them turn into full blown arguments but I guess you just have to take the good with the bad.
> Anyway, has anyone else made discoveries like mine or do I just need to get out more?
> 
> PS I realise it’s probably ironic that a post about improved writing abilities is so poorly written but I’m still learning.


 
I woold debate moore on hear butt I have vrry bad spilling and a limited vokabulary. My limited vokabulary limits me in the discusion, and i can only make limited sentence. I wishd my vokabulary was more unlimited but i gues i know my limits there four i'm limted in discusing unlimited debates....


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## NotoriouS (May 31, 2011)

I too love a good debate, however the topic of Religion tends to turn sour really quickly. I am always open for a good conversation in regards to religion (or football ), PM away and we can have our own little debate behind the scenes!


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol Red I love just about everything you post.

Haha they're not as fun when you only have one perspective for each side of the argument though.


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## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> lol Red I love just about everything you post.
> 
> lol Thanks mate... I do try.
> 
> Haha they're not as fun when you only have one perspective for each side of the argument though.


 
Arguments are the fundamental breakdown of a conversation or in this thread a debate. Aruguments come about when neither side of opossing view no longer listen to the logic being put forward. Therefore closing themselves to the idea that there may be a factor or variable they have not considered in their belief or opinions. The whole conversation ultimately breaksdown into the colloquial "urination contest" where the objective is no longer to conversate, absorb/exchange information and considerations of variables; rather the objective is to ultimately prove your point regardless of logic.


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## CrystalMoon (May 31, 2011)

I know there are specific sites and forums that are just for debating...But this site sorta feels like a "virtual family"(maybe I should get out more too LOL)
I wonder if it were possible to have a thread just for debating? even the taboo topics? just a thought I thunked?


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> Arguments are the fundamental breakdown of a conversation or in this thread a debate. Aruguments come about when neither side of opossing view no longer listen to the logic being put forward. Therefore closing themselves to the idea that there may be a factor or variable they have not considered in their belief or opinions. The whole conversation ultimately breaksdown into the colloquial "urination contest" where the objective is no longer to convesate, absorb/exchange information and considerations of variables; rather the objective is to ultimately prove your point regardless of logic.


 Sorry my definition of argument was meant to be read as you would probably define "debate" but you're absolutely right. Nobody learns/gains anything when they descend into that sort of "argument"


CrystalMoon said:


> I wonder if it were possible to have a thread just for debating? even the taboo topics? just a thought I thunked?


 I'd vote for that! Although I reckon it would keep Colin and Fay pretty busy


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Sorry my definition of argument was meant to be read as you would probably define "debate" but you're absolutely right. Nobody learns/gains anything when they descend into that sort of "argument"
> 
> I'd vote for that! Although I reckon it would keep Colin and Fay pretty busy


 
What if to post in the thread you had to click an agreement stating that you understand it could get messy, and the rule is no personal insults? If personal insults arose, the mods shouldn't have to delete it, one of the rules could be the post must be reported for action to be taken.


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## Crystal..Discus (May 31, 2011)

Wouldn't happen. There are younger members who would click away regardless, and then the mods would have to put up with parents frothing at the mouth because diddums clicked on something they shouldn't have... 

Also, if you keep it up Sax, you could become a Master-debater :d


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol someone had to say it Crystal


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## serpenttongue (May 31, 2011)

Religion and racism are topics I'd like to voice my opinions on. Fortunately I am able to let loose on another non-herp forum.


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## fugawi (May 31, 2011)

I don't get it......Why IS religion soo taboo?


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## Australis (May 31, 2011)

There are a few skeptic/atheist forums around, even a couple of Australian ones i think.
Dawkins had a forum, not sure if its still going though.


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## longqi (May 31, 2011)

There is only one real reply to this this thread

Simply think of a subject that may be interesting to other members and post it

I tend to agree that religion has very little to do with reptiles??
But possibly "Animism and its connection to reptiles" could be a very interesting discussion


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## Trouble (May 31, 2011)

I agree with you, Sax. My writing/typing has become better since being on this forum & chatting to a few friends who don't use 'txt tlk' .. My debating skills have become better, too! I am able to sit back and come up with a resonable argument before jumping in. 
It would be worth having a debate section on here. But as Crystal..Discus said, even if people agreed to whatever rules were in place, there would still be people who would get offended in the end :? which sucks for the rest of us.
Keep it up though, guys. I love reading through the discussion posts that aren't deleted after 4 pages lol.


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## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

We can start a group of APS debaters and have it buy invite only... I am not the most tech savy when it comes to things like this on forums. Dan, this may be an idea you would wish to follow? I'll definitely have things to say on it having done theology and philosophy at university.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I love that idea! Are APS groups moderated by the mods or by the founding member? 
Invite only group where anything goes unless it's personal and I have control over deleting and keeping posts. Time to start researching.


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## longqi (May 31, 2011)

How can you possibly have a great debate if its invite only???
Any debate requires at least two points of view
Selection of debaters to the exclusion of others is not an open debate and bound to failure

As a simple example look at that debate I accidentally started
It was only good because everyone was welcomed in there regardless of their point of view

Open debate is worth reading
Closed debate is simply boring


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## CrystalMoon (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> lol someone had to say it Crystal


 I was sitting on my hands for that one errrrrr now that sounds just plain BADDDDD:evil:
ROFLMFAO


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

You may be right but we won't know unless we try. It wouldn't deliberately exclude anyone on the basis that they may have a different view. I love talking to people with different views (that's kinda why I started this thread). I am mostly interested in who has control over the posts. If it can be kept to good debating and leave out the nastiness then that leaves it open to taboo topics and would be much more open than these forums


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## CrystalMoon (May 31, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> We can start a group of APS debaters and have it buy invite only... I am not the most tech savy when it comes to things like this on forums. Dan, this may be an idea you would wish to follow? I'll definitely have things to say on it having done theology and philosophy at university.


"Loves" that idea


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Ok I looked into it and it seems like it would be feasible. I'm going to ask a mod first to make sure then go from there


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

If it's invite only, who gets to send out the invitations? I want one...


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha there's an intermediate option where anyone can join but the moderator (me) has to approve them. If it gets approved it will probably just be the young ones and the ones I know from experience are overly sensitive that get rejected


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## CrystalMoon (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> If it's invite only, who gets to send out the invitations? I want one...


Ohhh has hand up, promises not to be too naughty LOL(kkk I might have stretched the truth LOL)


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha there's an intermediate option where anyone can join but the moderator (me) has to approve them. If it gets approved it will probably just be the young ones and the ones I know from experience are overly sensitive that get rejected


 
Has the group been made yet?


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

It has but I don't want to kick it off until I hear back from Colin. It may only have a short life if he rejects it


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Fair enough.


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

Won't work purely because unlike anything that can be quantified religion is personal and people will get upset and will talk crap and will insult regardless of who you are. Arguing religion is like arging what clothes you wear, it's individual to the person. So IMO it's a waste of time even trying to debate it, better just to discuss it, very close but different concepts)
Politics is a good one, abortion, the burka in modern day society (some would say it's religion but I think it's more to do with Culture), euthanasia, capital punishment, immigrants, climate change...the list goes on about what would be interesting. But I don't think that religion should be one.

I've been thinking about making my own forum for it, but I'm a Uni student so I lack any morals or initiative


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Snakeluvver2 said:


> Won't work purely because unlike anything that can be quantified religion is personal and people will get upset and will talk crap and will insult regardless of who you are. Arguing religion is like arging what clothes you wear, it's individual to the person. So IMO it's a waste of time even trying to debate it, better just to discuss it, very close but different concepts)
> Politics is a good one, abortion, the *burka in modern day society* (some would say it's religion but I think it's more to do with Culture), euthanasia, capital punishment, immigrants, climate change...the list goes on about what would be interesting. But I don't think that religion should be one.
> 
> I've been thinking about making my own forum for it, but I'm a Uni student so I lack any morals or initiative


 
I love that one. I'd be very keen to debate it.


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## bigfella77 (May 31, 2011)

Brilliant idea fellas, hope it works out. I spend many an evening reading along with these debates, I dont usually jump in coz my ham fists dont type to good. I just hope the debate by invitation idea doesnt get ruined by people claiming discrimination because they are not allowed to join.
Best of luck people.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Yeah you might be right on the religion point Jann...I mean Batman . I guess even that one will have to be off limits if it doesn't work. The good thing about it being in a group though is if we try it and see it isn't working I can delete the whole thread. The difference being that it wouldn't even be given that much of a chance in the forums


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (May 31, 2011)

im with bigfella,i enjoy reading all the discussions/ disagreements etc but dont usually get involved as i feel i have nothing new to add. will we be able to read these debates without actually contributing anything?


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

bigfella77 said:


> Brilliant idea fellas, hope it works out. I spend many an evening reading along with these debates, I dont usually jump in coz my ham fists dont type to good. I just hope the debate by invitation idea doesnt get ruined by people claiming discrimination because they are not allowed to join.
> Best of luck people.


 
Perhaps anyone over the age of 18 should be able to join, but if they don't follow the rules (personal insults, getting teary, etc) they get kicked out on the first instance, no going back. That way there's no discrimination.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Perhaps anyone over the age of 18 should be able to join, but if they don't follow the rules (personal insults, getting teary, etc) they get kicked out on the first instance, no going back. That way there's no discrimination.


 That's exactly how I'm hoping it will work.


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

Yer it is annoying when that happens. 

Talk to me on facebook about this (inbox) maybe we should make this forum, my aunty would love to have her say same with a few of my non retard friends. 

Nationalism is one I would love to get freaky on. 

I love to have it that you have to make references as well so people arn't just pushing random crap that they thought of without a legitimate reason.



> Perhaps anyone over the age of 18 should be able to join, but if they don't follow the rules (personal insults, getting teary, etc) they get kicked out on the first instance, no going back. That way there's no discrimination.



Really? I was thinking about these topics a few years ago. 
A few of my arguments come from when I talked about this in ethics and religion. 
I think it should just be benifit of the doubt till your a tool and then whack bam or banned from posting or every post will be reviewed by 2 moderators.

Or peers on the forum in private (similar to uni assignments)


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I don't know if I can do that but there is an option for the moderator (me again ) to approve messages before they are posted. Hopefully I can moderate others to help out if it goes ahead


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

Lets just make our own forum


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Snakeluvver2 said:


> Really? I was thinking about these topics a few years ago.
> A few of my arguments come from when I talked about this in ethics and religion.
> I think it should just be benifit of the doubt till your a tool and then whack bam or banned from posting or every post will be reviewed by 2 moderators.



I was thinking about them years ago, also. I wrote a high school speech on the burqa and immigration laws (that has been put up here) that I am quite proud of, I wrote it way before I was 18. It was the night before the assignment was due actually,  

I suggested the age limit because I thought it would be more likely to receive the go ahead from the mods.


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## bigfella77 (May 31, 2011)

Well this isnt much of a debate!! everyone is agreeing its a good idea.hahahaha


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Yeah maybe you were just ahead of your time. Would you like input from your "cousins" in this sort of debate?


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

I suggest we kick out Bigfella... he's on to us! 
Subtle 
Well everyone deserves a fair input, regardless, like I said if they post anything bigoted (references, data, rah rah) then it would be different.


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> I don't know if I can do that but there is an option for the moderator (me again ) to approve messages before they are posted. Hopefully I can moderate others to help out if it goes ahead


 
There goes your engineering assignment time, LOL. That would be quite a task.

What if the benefit of the doubt is given (like jannico said), *perhaps* an age rule imposed, and then if a post is out of line, it should be up to the members to report it. A mod should look at it, and if it's deemed unacceptable, the poster shouldn't be allowed to post in there anymore.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Yeah I agree that would be the better option (and that's how it's set up at the moment). Anyway this may all be moot until I hear back about letting it go ahead


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

Hahaha this would be a good topic. 
What is right and wrong - how are they defined in society, individually and within sub-cultures.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Ah, the old absolute morality topic. See this is one that I think teeters on the religion line and probably wouldn't get far in the main forum.


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 31, 2011)

Really? I think it's social pre-constructs (unwritten laws) 
and how a person brains works? 

I mean if a rapist has a unbalance of chemicals and he thinks violating a womens body is ethically right? How does punishing them help? What should we do?


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I guess that's what mental hospitals are for. Not for punishing someone who genuinely has different brain chemistry but it needs to be acknowledged that it wouldn't be safe for the person or the greater community to allow them to be out with the rest of the populace


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

I wouldn't bother with that topic. Too many grey areas, plus I'm probably a bit debauched.


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## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

Snakeluvver2 said:


> Hahaha this would be a good topic.
> What is right and wrong - how are they defined in society, individually and within sub-cultures.


 
Morals and ethics are societal construct... right and wrong depends on the norms of a society and morality on subjective level depends on the immediate want, desire or need of an individual.

The only unethical thing is to push societal construct and concepts on a society that already holds their own social norms and ethics, no matter how abhorent it is on a subjective level or in the confinds of a social norm in which the individual lives in.

That is all for now..

We shall get into this more if the group succeeds.


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## Snowman (May 31, 2011)

I've always thought some of you enjoyed a mass debate.....


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## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Snowman said:


> I've always thought some of you enjoyed a mass debate.....


 
It's better when it's mutual


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I was given a tentative but concerned "yes" for the group. It's here: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/groups/aps-debaters-242/
Be aware that the mods will still be watching so you can get infracted and banned if you aren't sensible. Religion will be off the table because it seems that a lot of people agree it can't be discussed in a civil manner. If it doesn't work out I'll just delete the group and we'll find something else to keep us amused


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## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> I was given a tentative but concerned "yes" for the group. It's here: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/groups/aps-debaters-242/
> Be aware that the mods will still be watching so you can get infracted and banned if you aren't sensible. Religion will be off the table because it seems that a lot of people agree it can't be discussed in a civil manner. If it doesn't work out I'll just delete the group and we'll find something else to keep us amused


 
Sweet, nice work Sax


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (May 31, 2011)

well done saximus!


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## sesa-sayin (May 31, 2011)

lace90 said:


> Haha who doesn't?
> 
> I think you should stop being so hard on your writing skills, Sax. Your posts are some of the more enjoyable to read.


 couldn't agree more..Sax has been most articulate from the very first time i read his postings. he posts a lot, and i always read many of them.


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

sesa-sayin said:


> couldn't agree more..Sax has been most articulate from the very first time i read his postings. he posts a lot, and i always read many of them.


 Thank you


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## PythonRob (May 31, 2011)

Hi Saximus,
Being the religeous man that I am, I did receive a message from god last night.
He said "Robert come forth..........but I tripped and come fifth" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lace90 (May 31, 2011)

Sounds great!
It's strange because I get encouraged to debate religion/cultural ideas/morality every day (my supervisor's aim in life is to challenge every 'belief' and thought that my lab group has). Interesting topic was brought up today, which has been briefly mentioned in this thread. Would be nice to share the concepts that are brought up in our lab meetings, as I am sure you all can give me a few ideas on challenging my supervisor!


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

That's why I wanted to do this. I was asked why I wanted to make a group just to argue with people but I think it's good to question and learn from perspectives of other people around here


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## Crystal..Discus (May 31, 2011)

Aww, I'm not part of the cool kids club


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol join and I'll approve you. It isn't invite only so you should be able to see it if you click the link


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## zack13 (May 31, 2011)

Invite me please I don't know how to join but love discussing different topics. The more taboo the better.


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## mmafan555 (May 31, 2011)

Add me...Would love to discuss Americans compared to Aussies( and America compared to Australia)
Kiwis compared to Aussies( and New Zealand compared to Australia)..Nationalism and Bias, Comparing animals from different continents( Lol probably should hold off on that topic for a while)

Politics, biology...snakebite studies, mma, kickboxing, boxing, etc etc.


Would love to discuss American and Australians and New Zealanders and Australians.


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## fugawi (May 31, 2011)

How do you know if you are added?


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I'd assume it would be when you can see the group and add to the discussion. Just to make it easy though I'll tell you - You're added .


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## fugawi (May 31, 2011)

Thaaaaank Yoooooooo


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## Cockney_Red (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha there's an intermediate option where anyone can join but the moderator (me) has to approve them. If it gets approved it will probably just be the young ones and the ones I know from experience are overly sensitive that get rejected


 
I didn't want to play with you lot anyway...


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## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol you guys need to read more. Anyone can join. I won't be rejecting anyone over 18. Cockney I'd love a bit of your sarcastic input


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