# Why has my Diamond Python's eyes turned green?



## Gaz67 (Nov 9, 2013)

I have a 6 year old diamond whose eyes have turned grass green in color. Is this something to be concerned about? What should I do? I don't have a vet who knows about reptiles.

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## hayden123113 (Nov 9, 2013)

Take a picture of it and post it, people might have a better idea of what it is.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 9, 2013)

*Photo of her eyes*



hayden123113 said:


> Take a picture of it and post it, people might have a better idea of what it is.


 here is a photo. I have had her go through many sheds and yes her eyes get cloudy but never ever green. I have spoken to reptile vet but they have no idea. this photo doesn't really capture how green the eyes are. They are grass green and not the usual hazy look at all.


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## Trimeresurus (Nov 9, 2013)

That does not look healthy.

Bumping for more experienced opinions.


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## Wing_Nut (Nov 9, 2013)

Does your snake have any discoloured, rough or otherwise odd scales on it's body? The only thing I have seen that comes to mind would be a fungal infection. Definitely need a higher authority for a concrete diagnosis.

What are your enclosure parameters? Humidity, temps etc?


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## cement (Nov 9, 2013)

Does this only happen when its going into a shed, and clear up after, or are they always like that?


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## Gaz67 (Nov 9, 2013)

Wing_Nut said:


> Does your snake have any discoloured, rough or otherwise odd scales on it's body? The only thing I have seen that comes to mind would be a fungal infection. Definitely need a higher authority for a concrete diagnosis.
> 
> What are your enclosure parameters? Humidity, temps etc?


 okay, glass tank, 4 foot by four foot. Large tank. Newspaper substrate. temp warm end around 30-32 and cool is about 24 degrees. Humidity is around 60%. I have 5 pythons and all others are healthy. This one I got as an adult from newcastle and has been sickly ever since I got her. I have had a number of reptile vets take a look and they have done xrays and extensive blood work in the past due to repeat respitatory infections. What they do think is that she was originally wild caught and her blood work shows evidence of parasites. Not treatable. They think that she has a very poor immune system and possibly pre leukemic.

I wondered about a fungal infection. She has some rough and discoloured scales on her belly that appeared over several days a week ago. I have been giving her a second daily diluted betadine bath since and it does seem to be clearing a bit. She has only come of antibiotics a month ago for a resp infection. I have consulted on two vets, one in WA and one at the National zoo and both were happy with her enclosure. Perhaps it is fungal. How the heck do I treat that.

- - - Updated - - -

No, never looked like this before


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## Riffherper (Nov 9, 2013)

I have never seen this before. I'm just thinking, do you check skins for the eye caps? Could it possibly be something related to a retained eye cap?


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## Wing_Nut (Nov 9, 2013)

It sounds like you have your answer in all of that. 60% humidity would be sufficient to encourage fungal growth. Eye issues are associated with respiratory problems, couple that with a reduced immunity it sounds like the writing is on the wall.


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## Thyla (Nov 9, 2013)

I would be keeping her away from your other healthy snakes.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 9, 2013)

Riffherper said:


> I have never seen this before. I'm just thinking, do you check skins for the eye caps? Could it possibly be something related to a retained eye cap?


I always check and she was fine after her last shed. She was okay until last Sunday

- - - Updated - - -



Thyla said:


> I would be keeping her away from your other healthy snakes.


 Iwork in health and so have always kept her in isloation and been very careful.


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## NickGeee (Nov 9, 2013)

Green eyed diamond python morph?


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## Darlyn (Nov 9, 2013)

Is she going blind? Or is it just the colour changing?


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## Bushman (Nov 10, 2013)

Interesting... I've never seen this before. 
It could be bacterial, so a course of antibiotics may help.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 10, 2013)

Bushman said:


> Interesting... I've never seen this before.
> It could be bacterial, so a course of antibiotics may help.


I took a photo of her belly. Here tis. Any thoughts


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## Gusbus (Nov 10, 2013)

scale rot on her belly


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## Gaz67 (Nov 10, 2013)

I know that looks like scale rot. I have had her with it before. I have been treating it as though it is with betadine baths. But her enclosure is very clean. I clean it once a week and it in no way explains her eyes. Scale rot doesnt turn eyes bright green etc. Rather than repeat myself, I will just direct you to read the detail from further above and get back to me with further info if u can. 

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## Gusbus (Nov 10, 2013)

I looked at all of the thread, never seen or herd of green eyes but have had scale rot before. i suggest no water or baths just let it be dry.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks. I agree. I just don't know what is going on with her though. She is really just sick all the time and always on antibiotics. If I was a newby, had no other reptiles or had unhealthy other reptiles, I would understand. The other thing is the parasite she has comes from frogs but diamond pythons don't typically seek out frogs in the wild. In addition her immune system should easily keep parasite numhers down. But instead her white blood cell count is sky high,parasite numbers high, reoccurant skin ulcers, RI etc. Now the green eyes. Her tank is kept very clean. Everything washed and treated weekly. Substrate changed after every bowel motion and I wash my hands and disinfect for handling. Temps are good and her tank a good size. I just am at my wits end. Not only is she sick. That is aweful for her. But also I cannot tell u how much i have spent on antibiotics, creams, bloodtests,xrays, swabs and vets. I have consulted vets from western aust to qld. Universities from sydney to the act. Now with this new thing, the skin and her eyes. I just no longer know what to do with her. How to get her better. I am going to ask for a script for ivermec and start injections. See if that helps the underlying infections. 

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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 10, 2013)

PM sent.


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## serpenttongue (Nov 10, 2013)

The green fluid may be caused by a blocked/enflamed lachrymal duct which was brought on by a respiratory infection. Is the snakes palate healthy? That green fluid looks nasty. I would suggest antibiotics, and you may also need the fluid drained by a vet.

The scale rot on the stomach is in it's early stages. I would lower the humidity, make sure the enclosure floor is warm and keep the snake on clean newspaper until the problem goes away.


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## SxcAy (Nov 10, 2013)

hmm this is something have never seen or come across before, a symptom where the snakes eye colour has changed not due to it shedding, its intriguing that i couldn't find any information regarding this situation, i myself have a diamond and I have done a fair amount of research on diamonds and never seen anything like it. You may have of just come across a rare disease in snakes or diamonds sorry about your snake


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## izzys1 (Nov 10, 2013)

Is it maybe time to consider the quality of her life? Constant infections and medications must be taking there toll on her. There comes a point in every pets life when we need to consider if we are keeping them alive for our benefit or theirs?


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## Obywatel_Snejk (Nov 12, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> okay, glass tank, 4 foot by four foot. Large tank. Newspaper substrate. temp warm end around 30-32 and cool is about 24 degrees. Humidity is around 60%. I have 5 pythons and all others are healthy. This one I got as an adult from newcastle and has been sickly ever since I got her. I have had a number of reptile vets take a look and they have done xrays and extensive blood work in the past due to repeat respitatory infections. What they do think is that she was originally wild caught and her blood work shows evidence of parasites. Not treatable. They think that she has a very poor immune system and possibly pre leukemic.
> 
> I wondered about a fungal infection. She has some rough and discoloured scales on her belly that appeared over several days a week ago. I have been giving her a second daily diluted betadine bath since and it does seem to be clearing a bit. She has only come of antibiotics a month ago for a resp infection. I have consulted on two vets, one in WA and one at the National zoo and both were happy with her enclosure. Perhaps it is fungal. How the heck do I treat that.
> 
> ...




We have from time to time a small discussion popping up about newspapers as substrate. There are a few chemicals which can harm your animal (lead for example), that come from the printing dye. 

I would support the concept of some sort of infection which may be related to the harm done by the newspapers and simply decrease the immune system protective capacity.


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## Norm (Nov 12, 2013)

If your suggesting that using newspapers as a substrate may be the cause I would think we would be seeing a lot more of it due to the number of people using newspaper.


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## Djbowker (Nov 12, 2013)

izzys1 said:


> Is it maybe time to consider the quality of her life? Constant infections and medications must be taking there toll on her. There comes a point in every pets life when we need to consider if we are keeping them alive for our benefit or theirs?



I'm inclined to agree with this, there comes a time when enough is enough, and the humane solution is needed, some things can't be fixed.


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## Obywatel_Snejk (Nov 12, 2013)

Agreed, but I am suggesting that the newspaper problem may have induced what was already around that particular specimen. Let's presume that there was a particular bacterial strain or fungy around which than hopped in when its immune system went down. That may be a differential factor due to different environments we may have in our terrariums.


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## andynic07 (Nov 12, 2013)

Obywatel_Snejk said:


> Agreed, but I am suggesting that the newspaper problem may have induced what was already around that particular specimen. Let's presume that there was a particular bacterial strain or fungy around which than hopped in when its immune system went down. That may be a differential factor due to different environments we may have in our terrariums.


I am not saying that you are 100% wrong about there being lead in the in but I am pretty sure that there would be none. The amount of people that would lick their finger and then turn the page would suggest that the probability of harmful chemicals being in newspaper ink would be low or there would be warnings and quite a few sick people.


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## bdav70 (Nov 12, 2013)

ooh poor thing  looks nasty


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## Gaz67 (Nov 12, 2013)

Thanks for mentioning the ink in newspapers but news printers no longer use lead in their inks and the toxiticity relating to inks when papers are used as a substrate has been tested and the inks are not toxic. Even when wet, ink does not become toxic. 
http://ohioline.osu.edu/cd-fact/0122.html

To give an update, I am liaising with the National Zoo reptile specialist and we are awaiting the delivery of antbiotics short term. Long term we are trying to identify a likely diagnosis for the underlying issue. If it does turn out that she has a chronic condition like leukemia impacting on her immune system, I will suggest euthenasia to the vet. 

But I am not willing to do it without exploring all options first. I am committed to my belief that animals are entitled to the same standard of medical care as a human, therefore I will treat her until such time that either, I have a diagnosis of a condition not curable or if I do not have a diagnosis but I have done my best to seek one AND she is suffering. 

Thank you for your help. Please feel free to put out feelers among your networks. There may be someone out there who knows what is wrong. 

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## Bushman (Nov 12, 2013)

Someone has contacted me that may be able to help. I'll try and put you in touch with them. 
PM sent.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 12, 2013)

Thank you

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## cement (Nov 12, 2013)

The problem is, that it isn't a single problem. Your tank is in my humble opinion not good.
keep the snake at a constant 30 degrees body temp and dry, in a small opaque tub until recovery is evident. keep it in fairly dark and only disturb to administer medicine. make sure you can look in on it through a peephole so that it's being looked at ,it doesn't know. Use the anti-biotics with her body temp kept up at 30 constant.
Wild diamonds will target frogs, they will also target other snakes and reptiles that also eat frogs, its not uncommon to find wild diamond with skin worm. Is the parasite identified?.
Why is the parasite problem not treatable? Parasites are more easily dealt with by snakes in the wild then in captivity. Also the white blood cell count is not surprising considering the infections.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 13, 2013)

Can you say more about what is wrong with the tank. The humidity is usually between 40-60 this time of year in her natural environment. The zoo vet said lower humidity would cause her problems. This is the humidity she advised. Other than that a gradiant of 24 - 30 degrees is good. I have done exactly what the reptile vets tell me to do. 

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## dendrelaphis (Nov 14, 2013)

G'day, this seems quite bizzare, but a blocked lachrymal duct as mentioned earlier may be the case, coupled with an infection of Pseudomonas aeruginosa. P. aeruginosa is a common culprit in lower respiratory infections, and in conditions where it is able to thrive, forms bright green colonies. The fluid around the eye may be heavily infected. Suggest this to your vet, and see what they think about a course of IM ceftazidime, probably every 3 days for 15 days.
Cheers.


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## junglepython2 (Nov 14, 2013)

This may or may not be of assistance.

Snake Bullous Spectaculopathy - WikiVet


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## Gaz67 (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks to all for your help. I am slowly following up on your replies while I wait for more info from the zoo vet. She has an idea. 

One person asked what the parasite is and why it isnt being treated. The parasite is blood borne and there is no treatment yet. It is a parasite that is common in the wild and the reptiles immune system usually keeps it well in check and they usually present without any ill effect. It is only identified via a blood test and is incidental information. However in her case her immune system is not controlling it. If we find the underlying reason for her suppressed immune system we can move forward, treat or make a decision. The vet thinks at this stage she has three infections; RI, scale rot and conjunctivitis. All due to her immune system being not functional. 

I would like to reinerate that my enclosures are cleaned weekly with an antibacterial and any soiled material is removed. All my other animals are in robust health.

She has been kept isolated from them. I work in infection control and all my training skills are being put to use with her care. The infections are a symptom of another problem. If it does turn out that she has leukemia, that is not treatable and I will have her euthenased. 

She is a lovely girl with a lovely nature, but there is something very wrong systemically. If reptiles became this ill, as readily, we would have no reptiles. 

I am going to hold off treating her myself due to awaiting a diagnosis. The vet is concerned that I may use something that then will delay the giving of a drug once we have a diagnosis. It may interact and need to clear her system. 

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## andynic07 (Nov 14, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> Thanks to all for your help. I am slowly following up on your replies while I wait for more info from the zoo vet. She has an idea.
> 
> One person asked what the parasite is and why it isnt being treated. The parasite is blood borne and there is no treatment yet. It is a parasite that is common in the wild and the reptiles immune system usually keeps it well in check and they usually present without any ill effect. It is only identified via a blood test and is incidental information. However in her case her immune system is not controlling it. If we find the underlying reason for her suppressed immune system we can move forward, treat or make a decision. The vet thinks at this stage she has three infections; RI, scale rot and conjunctivitis. All due to her immune system being not functional.
> 
> ...


Sometimes healthy people get sick and it is sometimes the same for reptiles.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 14, 2013)

Healthy people don't have multiple infections one on top of the other year in and year out, they don't have a consistently high white blood cell count and and abnormally high levels of blood borne parasites usually controled by the immune system. Nor do animals. Healthy people actually respond to antibiotics and don't spend most of their time on antibiotics and if they do something is wrong. Healthy people and reptiles do get sick, but if normally healthy, they are not sick with various infections 8 months out of every 18. When I got her she was no healthier. She had 4 ulcers and an RI. In 18 months she has been sick the majority of the time. That is not an indication of health. She has never ever not had an ulcer somewhere on her. Does that sound like a typically healthy animal to you? 

I work with people with chronic and terminal conditions. One thing I do know is that a pattern of repeat infections is a sign that there is an underlying issue compromising health. 

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## Bushman (Nov 14, 2013)

Your poor Diamond obviously has some serious health issues. You've been given some good advice and some sensible suggestions have been made. You also sound like you're doing your very best to help her, including seeking veterinary consultation. Is your vet very experienced with reptiles, as it sounds like you really need a reptile specialist? 
I gather that you're awaiting the results of pathology. In the meantime, you might want to try increasing the temperature gradient, as you stated that she was being kept at 26-30 degrees. Wild Diamonds have access to a much greater range of temps, including relatively high and surprisingly low. If she doesn't have the opportunity to get her body temp to optimal or preferred body temps then her metabolism and therefore immune system may be running sub-optimally.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 14, 2013)

I just wanted to update. The results arrived this evening from the vet for the current problem. She has septicaemia. I take her in tomorrow. She will be sedated while they take a further sample from her eyes and clean them. Antibiotics for the septicaemia. Further investigations due to being aneamic and other abnormal blood work. 

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## Bushman (Nov 15, 2013)

Thanks for the update. It's good to hear that they've identified and started treatment on her current health issues. Professional specialist reptile veterinary treatment is certainly your best option in a case such as this.


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## Trimeresurus (Nov 15, 2013)

I feel sorry that this snake has to continue to be kept alive.


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## Gaz67 (Nov 15, 2013)

I feel sorry when people are being judgemental. If any vet thought that euthensaia was the best option then i would go with it. At this time they all say that we should try to find the underlying problem. If we can, and it is cured...she will be well. If it is not curable i will put her down. I am responsible and take the advice of my reptile specialists. Do you? 

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## Performa (Nov 15, 2013)

Well said Gaz67. I feel sorry for those reptiles that dont have keepers that try all avenues to find cures and treat illnesses. Its always a easy option just to euthanasia


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## Trimeresurus (Nov 15, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> I feel sorry when people are being judgemental. If any vet thought that euthensaia was the best option then i would go with it. At this time they all say that we should try to find the underlying problem. If we can, and it is cured...she will be well. If it is not curable i will put her down. I am responsible and take the advice of my reptile specialists. Do you?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk





Performa said:


> Well said Gaz67. I feel sorry for those reptiles that dont have keepers that try all avenues to find cures and treat illnesses. Its always a easy option just to euthanasia




Too often I see pets kept alive that are suffering simply because the owners don't want to let them go. Euthanasia isn't the easy option, you don't just kill it off out of inconvenience, the animals don't understand what's going on, they're just in constant pain and discomfort not knowing they may pull through it. 

Gaz67 I do applaud you on trying, this is just the way I see it.


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## caliherp (Nov 15, 2013)

First off im sorry you and your snake are going through this. Second I commend you for dishing out all this money to figure out and treat this snakes problems. I also wanted to thank you for being so open and willing to update us on everything that is going on. I encourage you to keep us updated, as this is the first time I have seen this problem and id like to know everything I can about it. Im curious to see how the meds will effect the snake and its condition. I am also concerned about the snakes strength and ability to recover. We will see how it goes in good time. Again thank you for being so open and willing to divulge the information. I hope the snake pulls through. 


Regards, Patrick


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## littlemay (Nov 15, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> I just wanted to update. The results arrived this evening from the vet for the current problem. She has septicaemia. I take her in tomorrow. She will be sedated while they take a further sample from her eyes and clean them. Antibiotics for the septicaemia. Further investigations due to being aneamic and other abnormal blood work.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk



What antibiotics are they going with for the septicemia?


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 15, 2013)

Interesting discussion, and a commendable amount of care and concern you are showing. It may sound a bit cold-hearted, but I believe that persisting with the investigation of this snake's condition, quite apart from the concern for the individual animal, is important for future reference, and may contribute significantly to our understanding of any final and conclusive diagnosis, and treatment possibilities. To simply go for the euthanasia option without trying to find what is causing the problem may alleviate the discomfort of this individual animal, but precludes the chance to learn potentially significant information from this case.

I'm sure from what I read here that if the animal was in desperate and immediate distress, that the OP would take whatever course of action was recommended by the consulting veterinarian.

Jamie


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## NicG (Nov 15, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> It may sound a bit cold-hearted, but I believe that persisting with the investigation of this snake's condition, quite apart from the concern for the individual animal, is important for future reference, and may contribute significantly to our understanding of any final and conclusive diagnosis, and treatment possibilities.



I concur. A conclusive resolution here may help other keepers (and their animals) in the future, especially with such an obvious symptom.


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## champagne (Nov 16, 2013)

Thank you for posting this a lot of people hide these sort of things not wanting or people to know especially when it comes to a snake dying of symptoms similar to sunshine virus. I think everyone should try to treat diseases and infections, so that it can improve diagnosis techniques and treatment. I also think every reptile that dies should also have a necropsy done.


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## Darlyn (Nov 23, 2013)

How is she going?


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## caliherp (Dec 19, 2013)

Any updates?


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## Gaz67 (Dec 19, 2013)

Sorry, this time of year is very busy for me. Very long hours at work. She was diagnosed with septicaemia. She has improved considerably due to systemic antibiotics and she resumed eating. Her eyes are clear again. The vet said that he thinks she is just a 'bad snake' as he put it. He said in the wild natural selection would have killed her but due to being captive and having access to vet care, she has survived. Survival of the fittest and all that. However, she is still pre leukemic. Should she become leukemic I will put her down. But right now her quality of life is quite good. 

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## andynic07 (Dec 19, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> Sorry, this time of year is very busy for me. Very long hours at work. She was diagnosed with septicaemia. She has improved considerably due to systemic antibiotics and she resumed eating. Her eyes are clear again. The vet said that he thinks she is just a 'bad snake' as he put it. He said in the wild natural selection would have killed her but due to being captive and having access to vet care, she has survived. Survival of the fittest and all that. However, she is still pre leukemic. Should she become leukemic I will put her down. But right now her quality of life is quite good.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


Firstly , I am glad your snake is on the mend but I have a question. I do not know a lot about reptile illness or septicaemia either but I was under the impression that it showed itself as bleeding under the belly scales. Did your snake also have this and can anyone else clarify this at all.


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## Gaz67 (Dec 19, 2013)

Yes she did have that also

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## andynic07 (Dec 19, 2013)

Gaz67 said:


> Yes she did have that also
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


Sorry I just read the whole thread and realise that you stated about the belly scales and even posted a picture.


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## ellab1ack (Jan 3, 2014)

So how is it all going now? 


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