# Newbie to monitor



## Teamls (Aug 7, 2011)

Hey guys i just bought a yellow spotted monitor today.
this is my first reptile and just wanna know abit more about it.
Iv been told to grab him everyday for half an hour or so and he will be very tame.

what i wanna know is
at the moment i have terf but can i put him on sand or is he like bearded dragons where they cant go on sand till after a year? at the moment he is about 20 weeks i think.

do they like to swim in water?

any other news would be awesome cheers guys


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## MathewB (Aug 7, 2011)

You've done research haven't you?


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## cadwallader (Aug 7, 2011)

WOW i suggest you dont sleep and read as much as you can!!!! dont grab him just give him many hides and read untill you have at least a little knowledge on these monitors...

how are you heating his enclosure?


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## Kimberlyann (Aug 7, 2011)

I agree, do some research, you dont just go buy a pet with out learning about what they need :\


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## saximus (Aug 7, 2011)

This thread should be interesting...

Who told you to "grab him every day"? This is poor advice


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## dihsmaj (Aug 7, 2011)

DON'T grab him every day, monitors apparently have to learn to trust you, which takes a while.


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 7, 2011)

saximus said:


> This thread should be interesting...Who told you to "grab him every day"?


 Don't want to steal the thread but how are your blackheads going.


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## cadwallader (Aug 7, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> Don't want to steal the thread but how are your blackheads going.



Thats so random ever heard of a pm...


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## BurtonReptiles (Aug 7, 2011)

the dude trying find out some information now so how about everyone stops being smart and helps him.


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## thomasbecker (Aug 7, 2011)

What size is your enclosure and the temps for starters....


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## jordanmulder (Aug 8, 2011)

ok mate you obviously haven't done any reserch ok, here we go
first you should have an enclosure at least 3-4 foot as a hatchling as he growws you should then get something around 5-6foot.
you should have basking temps that are around 60 degrees this can be achieved by building a rock stack up two the basking light, make sure that everything is secure and touches the bottom of the enclosure, here is a good thread that discusses substrate to use http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-lizards-5383/substrate-monitors-167508/ 
feed the little guy cricets or woodies every day supplemented by roo or turkey mince.

please note this is just a basic run down.


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## HoffOff (Aug 8, 2011)

xDragonx said:


> the dude trying find out some information now so how about everyone stops being smart and helps him.


We're not being smart, just saying usually it's good to research a animal before buying it.
But nah, hold it everyday mate it'll be fine.


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

All my friends have deagons and monitors and snakes. So I know enough to look after one I just want to find out more about this breed. 
Yes I have done research but can't find answers to my questions.
I bought him from a well known reptile store here in Adelaide who have had them for over 20 years. 
They told me to handle him everyday to get him to trust me. Iv held him about 4 times in the past day and he doesn't put up a fight or anything. He just crawls my hands then falls asleep while I watch tv. When I go to out him back he doesn't want to get off my hand.
I know there are all sorts of keyboard warriors on here but all I wanna know is if they like to swim and if he cab go on sand yet.
He is in a 4'x1.5'x3 fish tank. He has a large heat mat and has a nice hot spot of 32 degrees and a cold spot up the other end of 20 degrees. Has lots to climb and heaps of places to hide


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## Chris1 (Aug 8, 2011)

since when are they on a basic license?

i was under the impression had to keep a class 1 monitor like accies before i could get them,....


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

Well you clearly think you know more the you actuarly do hahaha. 
You can have any reptile you won't in Adelaide as long as it's not a frilneck. Once you have more then one you need a license

Can I ask why you think your not suppose to handle them everyday. Either you guys are scared of them or your being fed some bull story. How's it ment to learn to trust you? Just talk to it and try convince it your a top bloke, then once you think you have it's trust pick it up hahaha


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## jordanmulder (Aug 8, 2011)

mate listen to these peoples advise they no what they are talking about, if you continualy grab a monitor out of an enclosure they will not trust you and they will put you through hell to just simply get them out of the cage, if you want to tame a monitor you must gain there trust by slowly by hand feeding them, once they have gained your trust lure them on to your hand to feed him (make sure you have a glove on when they grow older there claws are massive get them used to the smell and feel of the glove) and that is just a basic idea, do not underestimate a monitor, yellow spotted monitors can grow to be rather large (1.5 m) and they have the potential to give you a rather painful bite when they are older.


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

Well I know I fair few people with monitors and they pick them up everyday and they just sit on there shoulders after 6 months of holding them everyday. Even the guy at the reptile store told me to do this everyday and they will love you like a dog


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## vampstorso (Aug 8, 2011)

Uhm no dude, you cant own one of any rep you want in SA unless its a frilly. You can own one of any of the BASIC list reptiles. And the reason Cris doesnt know this is because theyre in NSW where the rules are different. Dont come ask for advice, be rude to members, then not even listen to advice from the people being nice to you. Just because your friends have reps doesnt mean you know anything either. E.g. your basking spot is wrong.


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## Robo1 (Aug 8, 2011)

First thing first, you need to increase the basking temperature. 32°C is ok for a dragon, but a monitor will need something between 40°C-60°C.

With regard to handling, it all comes down to the monitor. Some are extremely shy and will avoid contact. 'Grabbing' and holding monitors like this will only stress them out and make them fear you more. You need to build up trust with these by cleaning, feeding, etc, without trying to pick up the animal itself. On the other hand, with a monitor who is happy to be handled, like yours, picking it up every day is going to maintain this attitude. Though, if at any stage the monitors looks like it doesn't want to be picked up don't force it.

I'd strongly recommend learning about monitors in general as most of the husbandry will be similar. Despite the young age, it should be fine on sand. I don't know a lot about _panotes_, except they are one of the larger species, so I can't answer the swimming question. Hopefully someone here has more experience with them and can answer that for you. In the mean time, if you can give it a large water bowl and see if it likes to swim... just make sure that it can get in and out easily so it doesn't drown.


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## SamNabz (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls,

The reason you shouldn't handle young monitors is because when they are small they consider everything to be a threat including the big human reaching in to grab it from it's home.

What people mean by a monitor '_learning to trust you_' is not that you physically tell it that you are a "top bloke", but instead giving it time to realise you are not a threat to it - this is achieved by the lack of handling and a lot of patience which sometimes ends in a lengthy process that can take anywhere from a couple of months to a year +. If you don't have the patience to earn its trust then you shouldn't own one in the first place.

32 degrees is *WAY *too low for a basking spot for *any* monitor. You will not be able to achieve the necessary 70+ degrees with a heat mat or heat cord so you need a much better heat source - e.g spot globe.

*Note: *The reason you are able to handle your monitor is most likely due to it's body temperature being way too low for it to be active enough to flee from you.

Going by what you have written so far, it is evident that you have not done any research on how to keep these monitors & if you have friends that keep monitors, snakes etc. why haven't they already told you that what you are doing is wrong?..



Chris1 said:


> since when are they on a basic license?
> 
> i was under the impression had to keep a class 1 monitor like accies before i could get them,....



That's in NSW only, Chris.


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## HoffOff (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> Well I know I fair few people with monitors and they pick them up everyday and they just sit on there shoulders after 6 months of holding them everyday. Even the guy at the reptile store told me to do this everyday and they will love you like a dog


My god, are you serious?
If they took meth, and said it was a good idea, would you?



Teamls said:


> All my friends have deagons and monitors and snakes. So I know enough to look after one I just want to find out more about this breed.
> I bought him from a well known reptile store here in Adelaide who have had them for over 20 years.
> They told me to handle him everyday to get him to trust me. Iv held him about 4 times in the past day and he doesn't put up a fight or anything. He just crawls my hands then falls asleep while I watch tv. When I go to out him back he doesn't want to get off my hand.
> I know there are all sorts of keyboard warriors on here but all I wanna know is if they like to swim and if he cab go on sand yet.
> He is in a 4'x1.5'x3 fish tank. He has a large heat mat and has a nice hot spot of 32 degrees and a cold spot up the other end of 20 degrees. Has lots to climb and heaps of places to hide


Nice, maybe you need to research a LITTLE more.


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

60 degrees you guys are dreaming. Every single reptile store in Adelaide even say that even breeders, it doesn't even get that hot in there natural habitat. Well clearly I have come to the wrong place for advice as you all seen like keyboard warriors. I think I'll just stick with what the store tells me as there monitors have been bred and kept at 30 degrees and are as active as anything. His monitor follows him around his shop and his smaller ones sits on his shoulder and is only a year old. All I wanted to know is if I can put him on sand and of they like to swim. But clearly you guys know nothing. Probably a bit silly on my behalf asking people o. A python forum


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

yer much more research is needed, for a start, for panoptes sand isnt the best substrate, it is dry and doent hold enough humidity, mulch is better or mixed with some sand they dont like a lot of himidity but like some so mulch hold the right amount, they like to burrow and as juveniles they are very secretive, give them plenty to hide climb and even dig, dont grab him as you'll stress it you just need him to stust you and that is NOT by grabbing him, after he is a few months old and he trusts you try feeding from your hands or tweezers, if you keep them with lots of hides and they trust you they'll take to hand feeding much quicker, and then maybe start letting him come to you when he trusts you, dont go to him he must go to you, basking spot of 50-60 degrees is needed, they like a soak so large water bowl is good, ive got 5 of them real large adults about five foot all the way down to 25cm, 2 of the large ones are tame, another is not handlable but not scared one bit, the babys and subadults arn't handleable but dont run of when you first walk in, they're great monitors but wasnt the best first lizard, good luck and he'll out grow his tank very soon so have back up ready.


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## JAS101 (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> Well I know I fair few people with monitors and they pick them up everyday and they just sit on there shoulders after 6 months of holding them everyday. Even the guy at the reptile store told me to do this everyday and they will love you like a dog


i have a question if u know a few pepole with monitors then why arnt u asking them ?
rather then arguing with pepole who are giving u good advice ?


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## SamNabz (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> 60 degrees you guys are dreaming. Every single reptile store in Adelaide even say that even breeders, it doesn't even get that hot in there natural habitat. Well clearly I have come to the wrong place for advice as you all seen like keyboard warriors. I think I'll just stick with what the store tells me as there monitors have been bred and kept at 30 degrees and are as active as anything. His monitor follows him around his shop and his smaller ones sits on his shoulder and is only a year old. All I wanted to know is if I can put him on sand and of they like to swim. But clearly you guys know nothing. Probably a bit silly on my behalf asking people o. A python forum



Mate how about you stop being a keyboard warrior yourself and read to what people have written; this isn't a 'python forum', it's a reptile forum.

It may not get to 60C weather wise, but rocks etc. reach temps in excess of 60C when exposed to direct sun light.

As monitordude has said, mulch is a much better substrate than sand, and they do like to soak/dip in water.

This is your *first* reptile in general, yet you sit here and question peoples advice? Wake up to yourself mate.


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## JAS101 (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> 60 degrees you guys are dreaming. Every single reptile store in Adelaide even say that even breeders, it doesn't even get that hot in there natural habitat. Well clearly I have come to the wrong place for advice as you all seen like keyboard warriors. I think I'll just stick with what the store tells me as there monitors have been bred and kept at 30 degrees and are as active as anything. His monitor follows him around his shop and his smaller ones sits on his shoulder and is only a year old. All I wanted to know is if I can put him on sand and of they like to swim. But clearly you guys know nothing. Probably a bit silly on my behalf asking people o. A python forum


 this has to be a wind up , but if its not . then u now know that u wont find answers YOU would like to HEAR on this forum .


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## vampstorso (Aug 8, 2011)

Theyre telling you the BASKING spot should be 60 degrees, not the tank. Goddd this is painful.


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

teamls, your above comment is stupid! they need a basking spot over 40 degrees! um clearly you dont no anything them cause in theyre natural habitat the ground temps get to 50-60 degrees, so maybe you should listen to the right advise and stop being so ignorant. maybe 30degrees air temp but not likely, they need over 40degrees, and preferably 60, talk to Sonia Dewdney, im good mate with her shes in SA and shes bred them for years she'll tell you the exact same as us, contact her if you dont beleive us but she'll tell you the same at Sonia Dewdney [[email protected]] and you've been talking to the wrong people. your asking advice and not taking it, its your FIRST LIZARD! you need to listen to the wright advise mate we all have more experience them you and you need to listen for the write care for you monitor.


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## vampstorso (Aug 8, 2011)

Im sure in a week or two there's gonna be a "help my monitor isnt eating" or "whats the clicking noise coming from my monitors mouth?" Thread.


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

definaterly if he dosent listen to the right advise.


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

your all wrong you guys know nothing about monitors. 
I put my hand in my tank and he runs over and climbs up my arm if I wanted I could have him sit on my shoulder but I like to pat him so I hold him and he falls asleep. Anyway good luck with your monitors guys.


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

what is this is this a joke or something?


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

Why would I be joking. Are you jealous my monitor loves me and comes to me so easily. While you guys try train yours to love you. Maybe there good at sensing people's personality and they realize your all **** blokes


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

ok have fun with your monitor being kept at 30 degrees when its hotter than that in Winter in there natural habitat. hey im not a "bloke" cause im not an adult!


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## JAS101 (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> Why would I be joking. Are you jealous my monitor loves me and comes to me so easily. While you guys try train yours to love you. Maybe there good at sensing people's personality and they realize your all **** blokes


 lol your funny your monitor lovves u looong time .


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## Chris1 (Aug 8, 2011)

SamNabz said:


> Teamls,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



cool, well, i did do my research right tehn cos that was the monitor i was after,..!! 
(in finding that i also found how to care for them, lol,....so i wouldnt have had to ask questions i should have known the answers to before i made a purchase,.)

Teamls, if you want people to know the rules for ur state, maybe state what state ur in,,...duh!!

And i have read that monitors can be handled jsut like beardies, feed and heat them incorrectly, and by the time theyre badly affected by MBD you should be able to sit him on ur shoulder and go shopping! 
so keep heating him to 32, feed him a whole lot of mince, grab him for 30 mins a day to make sure he he's plenty stressed to go with the bad heat and food and he should be dog tame, (and sick as one) in no time!


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## JAS101 (Aug 8, 2011)

monitordude said:


> ok have fun with your monitor being kept at 30 degrees when its hotter than that in Winter in there natural habitat. hey im not a "bloke" cause im not an adult!


 dont bother with that person because its clear to see they are an expert and we are all newbies . Teamls can u post something tomorrow as well ? cause a joke a day can keep the frown away :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## saximus (Aug 8, 2011)

Trollololol

I knew this would get interesting


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 8, 2011)

saximus said:


> TrollolololI knew this would get interesting


Beat me too it. I think the comment about being in the wrong forum gives it away. Definetly smells of troll


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## Schnecke (Aug 8, 2011)

EDIT: The below was written before the OP became too much of a (insert insult here) to bother giving a reply to. So for anyone else wanting this information in the future, as this thread will be closed off shortly no doubt) then they will have access to it. For the OP, just go away and trust your pet shop mates. No-one here needs your know-it-all attitude, as you can't take a bit of flack appropriately (hell, we're new, we need to suck it up sometimes!!)

Okay, the info for people who ACTUALLY want to listen:

The problem with newbies (like myself) is we ask so many questions without reading enough first; or understanding what we are being told. If I had listened to all the advice I got from friends with reptiles - and family with reptiles and done as they had done, I really wouldn't be doing the right thing.

I think a lot of people get confised about basking spot temps. I thought measuring air temp was always the right thing to do, forgetting about what the reptile would actually be sitting on. That's the important bit. From what I have read (remembering I'm also new) is the thermo probe needs to be resting ON the basking spot to get a proper temp read. Even a few cm above it, will cause the air temp to be lower, thus not giving a correct read.

To break it down in plain terms as I understand it.... Outside, even if the air temp is 30 degrees, the rocks that are out in the sun are almost burning temp (eg. on a 38-40 degree day, there is NO WAY I'm going to walk on concrete outside, as it's 60-70 degrees +) so that's what people are talking about with a hotter basking spot.

There was a study done, to test surface temps in the middle of summer on concrete paths and they were reaching temps of 90 degrees + (so, almost hot enough to fry eggs, but not quite enough) and that was on mid 40 degree days... So before you go off on people telling you to keep a 60+ hot spot, they are NOT talking about air temp (naturally, we gon't get those temps here) they are talking about where the monitor will be sitting. If you have a heat lamp overhead with nothing to heat up underneath it, you will never get a basking spot that's truely hot enough.

I've found this to be a great forum and although your mates keep their reptiles a certain way, it doesn't mean that it's right. I found sometimes as well, if I was given the right information, I wasn't told how to put that into practice, which disn't help either....


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## pythrulz (Aug 8, 2011)

Ita very hard to dind information on monitors a good book is keeping and breeding austalian monitores I think its called 
You where told the wrong thing if you grab it everyday your monitor will hate you forever It can take about 2 years or so before you can handle him/her without 
being scratched or bitten or hissed at


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## HoffOff (Aug 8, 2011)

well i now i just feel dumb for falling for a troll


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Aug 8, 2011)

if this douche isnt a troll i can see the headline now "Reptile keeper clawed to death and then eaten by the pet that "loved" him." 

Why bother coming on here if you know it all already.

And I thought i asked too many annoying questions when I was a newbie.


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## Schnecke (Aug 8, 2011)

In defense of handling daily, I don't see an issue with it if a reptile is happily doing so. As long as it isn't kept out for too long at any one time, if it is happy to come out, then I think it should. The issue here is _attitude_ towards handling.

Teamls - You seem to think the pet shop keeping the monitors out on shoulders etc is because it's "the done thing," well, hate to break it to you champ, A PET SHOP IS A BUSINESS > if the monitors were locked away under key and they didn't handle them at all, had basking temps of 60 degrees (which would make the monitors more active than they are and LOTS more agro) I doubt as many people would purchase. See the math here?

Everyone has a different opinion on handling reptiles, one extreme is handling for several hours a day and the other end is never handling, so I don't think there is an issue with that. Each to their own - as long as the animal eats and behaves normally (and by normal I mean NATIVELY normal) I dont' feel there is an issue, unless the reptile is being used as an accessory (which I believe is going to be the case here, the whole reference to shoulder riding and watching tv is a dead give away - the monitor probly seeks people due to their body temperature, not the desire to be friendly)


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## jordanmulder (Aug 8, 2011)

ok mate you are obviously not listening to reason, but for your information your monitor (in the wild) comes from aroud the Darwin springs area, where it commonly reaches 40 degrees, and just incase you don't know the rocks heat up during the day and attain a tempature considerably higher than the air, and just in case you don't know these animal are durinal which means they are active in these temps, Savy? the reason why he is so "tame" is because he is so cold and can not operate or become active enough to do anything apart from Sit in your hand. I think you will find your monitor dead or very sick befor a year is over.
is this clear?

Edit: just realized I fell for a troll!


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

btw panoptes arnt from alice springs.


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## jordanmulder (Aug 8, 2011)

monitordude said:


> btw panoptes arnt from alice springs.


your right for some reason i had it in my head he had perchased a V.gouldii


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## GeneticProject (Aug 8, 2011)

Surely it's time for this troll thread to be shutdown mods?


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## MathewB (Aug 8, 2011)

Troll or not it'll be the monitor that pays for his ignorance. I don't understand people that ask for advice and then accuse people of wrong doing....:|


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## Boidae (Aug 8, 2011)

Oh dear...

1. Increase the basking temperature, unless you want your monitor to die. Monitors *NEED *a hot basking spot. 
Yes, I realise that it never gets that hot in the monitors natural habitat, but we're not in its habitat are we? 
Keep the hot spot at 50 as a minimum, keep the cool end at about 30. 

2. *DO NOT HANDLE THE MONITOR!!!! *If you care about your monitor you will not handle it!!! It will overstress and may quite possibly die. On this forum are some of the countries most experienced monitor keepers and breeders, do not ignore them when they tell you not to handle it!!

3. Respect the members on this forum. You have been given plenty of helpful advice by many knowledgable members, a lot of which you have simply dismissed as incorrect and misleading, just because you dragon keeping mates have told you differently. 

Read this care sheet... An Argus Keeper's Tricks


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## dihsmaj (Aug 8, 2011)

Your last post reeks of troll.


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## Wally (Aug 8, 2011)

[email protected]


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## calebs92 (Aug 8, 2011)

your going to either kill you monitor or make it very sick.
why dont you ask if your friends they seem to know every think ,and everyone on this site is wrong?
an why are you calling everyone keyboard warriors when your the biggest one here?


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## mkwak (Aug 8, 2011)

people please, he may have been a bit arrogant but this is supposedto be a kind forum where we give each other helpful advice not punish peoplefor mistakes, be kind!


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## MathewB (Aug 8, 2011)

mkwak said:


> people please, he may have been a bit arrogant but this is supposedto be a kind forum where we give each other helpful advice not punish peoplefor mistakes, be kind!



It's a two way street


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## Teamls (Aug 8, 2011)

put my hand in my tank tonight and he ran straight over to me and up my arm.
he sat on my shoulder while i changed his tank around, i gave him a pool i can change the height of for him and heaps to climb. once i had finished i sat on my couch and he jumped off and walked over to his cage and hopped in. so i dunno what all you dreamers are on about :shock:


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## Schnecke (Aug 8, 2011)

This seriously has to be a piss take??


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## codysnake (Aug 8, 2011)

What reptiles store did you buy him from? I live in Adelaide


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## noah2112 (Aug 8, 2011)

yeah what store? i am in the HOLE they call adelaide aswell


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## Wally (Aug 8, 2011)

noah2112 said:


> yeah what store? i am in the HOLE they call adelaide aswell



Don't worry, Melbourne's housing sprawl will make it over that way eventually, then you can call yourself a Victorian.


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## Tristis (Aug 8, 2011)

poor monitor, give it to someone who will look after it the right way before its to late


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## monitordude (Aug 8, 2011)

id adopt him wouldnt mind a sixth one.


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## MathewB (Aug 8, 2011)

Pics of your Monitor and setup?


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## Boidae (Aug 8, 2011)

Teamls said:


> put my hand in my tank tonight and he ran straight over to me and up my arm.
> he sat on my shoulder while i changed his tank around, i gave him a pool i can change the height of for him and heaps to climb. once i had finished i sat on my couch and he jumped off and walked over to his cage and hopped in.



Just a quick question mate, are you all there in the head?


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## codysnake (Aug 8, 2011)

Its ok guys i have a spare vivarium! and im in Adelaide! 
Ill save this little guys life he will be happy in a nice and warm (50-70c) vivarium with nice rocks and plenty of food!


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## Tsubakai (Aug 8, 2011)

Why did you ask for advice? All you've done is act like a twat when anyone has replied with the information you've asked for. Your ignorance and lack of manners is colossal.


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## Jen (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd like a troll, I'd squish him and squeeze him and call him teamls. I'd keep him in a cold enclosure and grab him to play with a few times a day. I'd go on a reputable reptile forum and tell everyone how much I know about keeping dead monitors.


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## Jesse_H (Aug 9, 2011)

This guy's probably the same troll who hit the freshwater turtle forum the other week, had everyone up in arms, member attacking member, until a wise admin deleted the entire thread...


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## jordanmulder (Aug 9, 2011)

Man this is painful, please delete this thread mods


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