# Boas found in melbourne house



## Colin (Mar 5, 2009)

*Daily Telegraph* 
*Source:*
*
Two boa constrictors found in house*

March 05, 2009 11:22am

AN anonymous tip-off led police to an unusual reptilian discovery southeast of Melbourne this morning – two boa constrictors.

Officers from Victoria Police and the Department of Sustainability and Environment (DSE) executed a search warrant at the Carrum house after a call was made to the DSE contact centre. 

The male and female boa constrictors were seized at the home. 

DSE senior investigator Keith Larner said a 42-year-old woman was being interviewed. 

"Keeping boa constrictors is selfish and highly irresponsible," Mr Larner said. 

"They can spread potentially devastating diseases to our native pythons." 

The snakes can carry a virus called Inclusion Body Disease, which is fatal for native Australian pythons because they have no resistance to it. 

It is illegal under state and federal law to possess, breed or trade exotic reptiles. Boa constrictors are native to Central and South America. 

The woman faced penalties of up to $110,000 in fines and/or five years in jail. 

Mr Larner thanked the anonymous caller. 

"Their decision to assist us has removed two exotic pests that had the potential to breed more exotic pests." 

The snakes will be euthanased.


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 5, 2009)

there are lots of boas in legal collections in australia.


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## benito22 (Mar 5, 2009)

wow thats amazing


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## aoife (Mar 5, 2009)

now because of that lady's stupidity those beautiful snakes are going to die!!!


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## paul4 (Mar 5, 2009)

To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.


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## zulu (Mar 5, 2009)

*re Boas*

DSE saying that the boas are carriers of IBD is complete BS,those here are carrying no more desease than any native species in a collection,its just a waste of money and resources that could be put to better use.


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## Colin (Mar 5, 2009)

paul4 said:


> To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.



definitely agree with you there



zulu said:


> DSE saying that the boas are carriers of IBD is complete BS,those here are carrying no more desease than any native species in a collection,its just a waste of money and resources that could be put to better use.



I was thinking the same thing. the money wasted oh these "raids" would be better spent looking after animals and reptiles injured in the bushfires etc in my opinion.


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## mark83 (Mar 5, 2009)

Its a shame the snakes have to die. Its not their fault


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## Slytherin (Mar 5, 2009)

I agree, its a shame that the poor snakes have to die!  I think they should have been housed by a zoo or reptile park (after going through strict quarantine of course). These selfish people illegally import them with no regards to those animals welfare, and also the welfare of our native pythons. :x


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## TWENTY B (Mar 5, 2009)

paul4 said:


> To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.


 

Are you all serious............

IT IS ILLEGAL TO KEEP THESE ANIMALS.
it's like having someone grow weed over your back fence andjust turning a blind eye to it..

Dob them all in, if you want a snake, get a licence and get yourself a native animal.

no if's no buts, NO IMPORTS


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

paul4 said:


> To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.



i agree fully bro... i hope the annonymouse caller is happy! i hope it made their life better..grr dam hell...those Boa's were already there "so hence they had no diseases"..and irresponsible???..man u got to many ppl making rules and regulations about reptiles..that know nothing of reptiles...and euthenized??....what for :S ?????......theres not many animals in Melbourne city these boa's could affect if escaped,they would die during winter!..not gonah say anymore cos this is a touchy subject "exotics"..but i think destroying the snakes and ppl dobbing in ppl for a "LOVE for reptiles"...NOT DRUGS....is i dunno..
cheers.


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

paul4 said:


> To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.


 
Couldnt have said it better myself.


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## TWENTY B (Mar 5, 2009)

*I REALLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M READING, *

*YOU PEOPLE ARE CONDONING THE KEEPING OF ILLEGAL ANIMALS*

*sure it's a shame they wil be euthinased, but that is the fault of all the keepers of these animals*


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## Colin (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> *I REALLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M READING, *
> 
> *YOU PEOPLE ARE CONDONING THE KEEPING OF ILLEGAL ANIMALS*
> 
> *sure it's a shame they wil be euthinased, but that is the fault of all the keepers of these animals*



 maybe you should re-read whats been said. no one's agreeing with the keeping of illegal animals at all  but several including me have expressed the opinion that dogs aka: dobbers.. have no right sticking their noses in other people's business. 

If someone wants to do something illegal thats their business. and dobbing someone in doesn't make them a hero.. it just makes them a scumbag. 

I don't agree with the keeping of illegal exotic animals and have never kept any myself or never will keep any myself.. but I would not dob someone in if I knew they did.. and thats my personal choice. cheers


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> *I REALLY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M READING, *
> 
> *YOU PEOPLE ARE CONDONING THE KEEPING OF ILLEGAL ANIMALS*
> 
> *sure it's a shame they wil be euthinased, but that is the fault of all the keepers of these animals*


 
Sorry, not all of us are goodie goodies and are willing to pretend to agree with every law made. Have a cry about it.

What we said was that there are too many people who are do gooders and dobber dobbers in this world we live in today. It would be a nicer place if people minded their own business and accepted that we dont live in care bear land, deal with it.


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## TWENTY B (Mar 5, 2009)

those keeping illegaly imported animals arethe dogs.
and by turning a blind eye you are condoning it, 
read the definition of condone
*con⋅done*   /kənˈdoʊn/ 
*–verb (used with object), -doned, -don⋅ing.* 
1.to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
2.to give tacit approval to: _By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior. _


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> those keeping illegaly imported animals arethe dogs.
> and by turning a blind eye you are condoning it,
> read the definition of condone
> *con⋅done*   /kənˈdoʊn/
> ...


 
I dont keep exotics, because my collection is not worth losing to dibber dobbers, but I have no problem personally with somone who does. I wish there was an icon for somone having a cry, I'd use it here for you.


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## Colin (Mar 5, 2009)

yeah yeah twenty B  with friends like you... who needs enemies :lol: cheers


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> those keeping illegaly imported animals arethe dogs.
> and by turning a blind eye you are condoning it,
> read the definition of condone
> *con⋅done*   /kənˈdoʊn/
> ...



i agree with mayham and i have no hate to people with the love of keeping exotics,cos it just embraces the whole LOVE for reptiles..so give it a rest twenty twenty!!.can see u,v never had a drink or smoke in yur life time....ur like a little kid trying to prove sumthing!! u have had your say!..sweet..killa..sik dude!..but this isnt DRUGS or a MURDERE or RAPIST.. a lil ol lady with two reptiles,snakes animals!that no1 knew of or knew exiisted,until sum1 snitched for their well being.and now two of one of the worlds most beautiful snakes (obviosuly with NO disease)have to be destroyed kuzin...i dont understand the whole hate u have on exotics here (yer the exporting is bad n sad,but they ddint catch her exporting)..maybe ur jus jelouse uv never held a boa! and cant obtain one yurself..or maybe ur a trainee police officer..dont know bro..u sound real sensative on the subject tho..peace out twenty twenty


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## TWENTY B (Mar 5, 2009)

so if you knew someone selling vipers you wouldn'tdob them in couse it's none of your business...


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

Vipers r awsome snakes..i love them!!!...


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## Colin (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> sure it's a shame they wil be euthinased, but that is the fault of all the keepers of these animals



you can look at it that way I guess.. thats your opinion. 

but in my opinion the fault that these beautiful animals will be killed lies with the dirtbag that dobbed this lady in.. If they hadn't of done that these animals may have lived out their lives happily in the care of their owner. 

again I'm not "agreeing" with the keeping of illegal exotics animals. but if someone chooses to do so knowing the consequences.. that is their business and not mine. cheers.


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> so if you knew someone selling vipers you wouldn'tdob them in couse it's none of your business...


 

I know people selling brown snakes, whats the difference?

If somone does choose to buy a viper, or any exotic venomouse, then its their predicament if they get bitten. Its personal choice. Somthing this country has been severely lacking in recent years.

Antivenom for most international venomouse species is suprisingly well available here in Aus and alot of our native antivenoms are actually used overseas for other species because of their similarity etc.


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## Dan123 (Mar 5, 2009)

> so if you knew someone selling vipers you wouldn'tdob them in couse it's none of your business...



i know i wouldent.


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## jasonryles810 (Mar 5, 2009)

zulu said:


> DSE saying that the boas are carriers of IBD is complete BS,those here are carrying no more desease than any native species in a collection,its just a waste of money and resources that could be put to better use.


 


paul4 said:


> To many dogs in this world, i think people should just mind there own business and worry about their own problems.


 
its such relief to see some people on here with an actually thought pattern and not the mind off a flocking sheep, thumbs up imo, i dont condone the keeping of these species but the cop out that they carry all these fatal diseases is complete bs, these snakes have been here for years and years they are the offspring of many many years of australian bred boas, twentyB ur disposition is idiotic and uninformed im afraid. like i said i dont condone the keeping of these species but i dont see why people cant jsut appriciate that they are an interesting and beautiful species in there own right.

cheers


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## TWENTY B (Mar 5, 2009)

our native wildlife is something i care for greatly, 
sure these exotics are beautiful animals, and if they werelegal, then i would own quite a few exotics, 
but the point is the are NOT LEGAL, 
i am glad keepers of them are getting busted, 
i am glad people trading in native species illegaly are geting busted.
AND I HOPE MORE OF THEM GET BUSTED.


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## ihaveherps (Mar 5, 2009)

I would like to know how the majority of you have come to the conclusion that these boas are in fact disease free animals. I am hopeing for an intelligent answer here ( so seanjbkorbett, please keep your hands well clear of your keyboard). All the posts about these animals being here for ages, being disease free, is just fabricated fantasy, not fact... Its not implausable that they are imports themselves, nor that like many boas they can carry IBD without showing symptoms, as it is well documented that IBD in boas isnt as detrimental as when it appears in pythons.... spose, shouldnt let the truth get in the way of a good story though.


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## itbites (Mar 5, 2009)

Yeh sure "dobbers" aren't cool hey, 
fancy telling the authorities about exotics 
that potentially risk our native wildlife! 

What sort of low life calls in about illegal exotics 
that aren't supposed to be here
*the nerve* 

Personally them do gooders don't bother me...
If you have nothing to hide in the 1st place then it's no concern, 
if you do..too bad 

I'm with 20B 100% the real "dogs" are the ones bringing in
exotics imo


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## diprotodon (Mar 5, 2009)

i aint no dobber but i think it would suck to have more feral spieces in oz .If there kept illegally and bred under these circumstances it could lead to problems in future. I cant really see big comparison between growing drugs and keeping exotic animals unless your growing some sort of hibrid gunja that could threaten the mole populus of australia and if that was the case im sure alot of the drug underworld would put a stop to it ,any threat to our native flaura and fauna should be stopped no matter what the circumstances. Killing the animals is BS should have went to legal private collection or to a zoo.


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

I can understand completely why exotics are currently illegal to keep in this country. In saying that, I don't especially agree with said laws and thus wouldn't, and haven't, reported the exotics I've seen in private collections.
The day they become legal I'll be lining up with most of the rest of you for our corns and boas and such, 'till then I'll stick with natives.


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## della91 (Mar 5, 2009)

Twenty B... i'm with you, i dont understand why you wouldnt tell the authorities about exotic snakes- in all honesty they are doing nothing to help our native wildlife and if you havent noticed that reptile parks are full of boa's, from memory they have something like 40 snakes a clutch, thats why even the zoo's refrain from breeding them- and why should they adopt them? the quarentine is exhausting and pricey. Sure it's harsh to euthenise them but what other options are there really, we can't send them back, can't keep them without great cost- so whats the point.


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

i haveherpies..thats very fair enough..can u scientits give me one example of a "reptile" or documented case..(since exotics have been in australia for many many yrs underground) that says and proves they have spread a disease to our native wildlife or endagered our wildlife what so ever in the past and to date...and no red eared slider turtles dont count..im talking snakes and lizard...are those south east asian house geckos annyoing you people  ??...just curiouse..then ill rest my case!..and where does IBD originate from,im curiouse aswell..and if these boas have been here for many yrs,lets say bred here for yrs n yrs,and this pair r a offsrping of many yrs of breeding in australia.. then where did the IBD come from?..unless its already a australian disease..correct me please if im wrong..i dont care.


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

I like the way you goodie goodies claim your standing on "Its illegal because they take over our native wildlife" yet you've turned around in the same breath and admitted that if it _*was* _legal you would happily keep exotics, therefore negating your own argument.


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## ihaveherps (Mar 5, 2009)

I am amazed..... i knew they had sent chimps into orbit, taught monkeys to paint, even a gorilla to speak sign language.... though seanjbkorbett, you typing semi fluent sentences has blown me away.


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

cheers..ur pritty clever yahself?  and thats clever wording u got their aswell...thats kool kuz bro ..but iam not hear to pay u out or say how nerdy u are and clever...i just whanted a answer..thats all im wating for,just to answer my question since its so "primitive" and im so basic..im sure u can answer it..cos i honeslty dont know??? ..cheers i haveherpies,hope to hear back from u?


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## itbites (Mar 5, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> I like the way you goodie goodies claim your standing on "Its illegal because they take over our native wildlife" yet you've turned around in the same breath and admitted that if it _*was* _legal you would happily keep exotics, therefore negating your own argument.


 

I find it amusing that all of the people saying the caller is a dog etc 
are saying how they should leave the people with exotics alone.. 
Then in the next breath say oh but I don't condone exotics 

Also don't tar us all with the same brush :| 
I'm quite happy to stick to natives regardless of legalities ty!


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## Mayhem (Mar 5, 2009)

itbites said:


> I find it amusing that all of the people saying the caller is a dog etc
> are saying how they should leave the people with exotics alone..
> Then in the next breath say oh but I don't condone exotics


 
I've already admitted that I'd happily keep them if it wasnt for risking my collection due to do-gooders. The caller is still a dog in my eyes. 

So I dont neccesarily dissagree with your above post. 



mayhem said:


> I dont keep exotics, because my collection is not worth losing to dibber dobbers, but I have no problem personally with somone who does. I wish there was an icon for somone having a cry, I'd use it here for you.


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## No-two (Mar 5, 2009)

seanjbkorbett said:


> cheers..ur pritty clever yahself?  and thats clever wording u got their aswell...thats kool kuz bro ..but iam not hear to pay u out or say how nerdy u are and clever...i just whanted a answer..thats all im wating for,just to answer my question since its so "primitive" and im so basic..im sure u can answer it..cos i honeslty dont know??? ..cheers i haveherpies,hope to hear back from u?


 
Why even bother with punctuation when you clearly can't spell? You must have been one of the "cool kids" in school who has since dropped out and is a trainee burger flipper, or electrician. I'm sure of it. Perhaps you shoudl've learnt how to read and write, maybe then you'd be able to read up about how these exotics carry disease, rather then needing someone to explain it to you in laymen terms.


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

im not one for dobbing folks in but are u guys saying if u saw the scum that lit the recent bushfires u wouldnt dob them in????????????????????,i know its different but end of the day there the same,2 people breaking the law,oh i love a debate,lol

i love how dse also use the old ibd topic and threat to native reps,to make them look like there doing the community and native reps a service,diseases are carried by our native species,the boas are at just as much risk of catching ibd or something of aussie species,wouldnt supprise me if the powers that be dont euthanise them at all,plenty of them are just as corrupt as the people they like to gloat about taking down


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

richardsc said:


> i know its different



Indeed. One is undeniably and completely destructive and universally condemned, the other is quite hotly debated. Comparisons between the two are lewd and of poor taste at best.


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## seanjbkorbett (Mar 5, 2009)

No-two said:


> Why even bother with punctuation when you clearly can't spell? You must have been one of the "cool kids" in school who has since dropped out and is a trainee burger flipper, or electrician. I'm sure of it. Perhaps you shoudl've learnt how to read and write, maybe then you'd be able to read up about how these exotics carry disease, rather then needing someone to explain it to you in laymen terms.



haha man YOUR 17....ahaha..yeh i did drop out of school man..i was kool ...why werent u??..lol..and no ima steel roofer buddy!i work trade work..im not a Vet..,what do u do bro??....also in the next yr i hope to have my own business in Snake relocation,sall going well so far....cheers bro..im over this BS any way.i wasnt trying to diss any1....im going up to brizzy ta PARTAY!! wahoo.l8ers fellas..


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## gozz (Mar 5, 2009)

No-two said:


> Why even bother with punctuation when you clearly can't spell? You must have been one of the "cool kids" in school who has since dropped out and is a trainee burger flipper, or electrician. I'm sure of it. Perhaps you shoudl've learnt how to read and write, maybe then you'd be able to read up about how these exotics carry disease, rather then needing someone to explain it to you in laymen terms.


 More than likley that these exotics were bred from stock that has been here for a number of years, there - for dont post a threat and should be given to a zoo.


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

exotics have also been found as escapees in aus,so no one can rule out issues with exotics becoming established in the wild,we dont need any more pests,we have native species to keep,and alot of choices,more choices than we will ever have the pleasure of owning,the whole exotic topic is pathetic,i highly doubt they will ever be legalised,

megrim,so are u saying introducing pest s to oz isnt destructive,new viruses and diseases????????????

seriously guys,read what you are writing,end of the day exotics are illegal,not because the powers that be dont want you to have them,because there trying to keep unwanted pests and diseases out of australia,are u condoning animals being transported in cruel conditions into this country illegally with out quarinteen??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????how many die in transit??????????????????????????????????how many,bloody lots,euthanising them is alot more humane than you guys are condoning,so perhaps think about your arguments first,as most are laughable at best.

THERE ILLEGAL,hence if you get busted its your own stupid fault for having them in the first place,do i feel sorry for ya,nope,not in the least,i just wish the powers that be would punish them more,as slaps on the wrist dont seem to stop it happening

all i can say is we have ibd,we have other virises and diseases here,where did they come from?????look at the devastation of cane toads in northern oz,yep exoctics are harmless,red eared sliders are in our streams and lakes,god knows what else is out there,but yeah stuff the native species,lets illegally bring in exotics

what a joke,no comparison,maybe not to you


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## ihaveherps (Mar 5, 2009)

Ok.... documented case.... Australian Reptile Park, funnily enough the same one tied to Snake Ranch. Dont know if there was any scientific papers or what not, but they believe that OPMV was transferred from an imported elapid, to their venom supply animals, which were from there passed off into a number of collections where further die off occurred. 

Another scenario is also that pythons seem to have a much worse time than Boas with the reovirus IBD. Pythons seem to decline significantly quicker to IBD, than Boas, some Boas, even known to be un-affected carriers of the virus. This lends itself to the assumption that for boas, IBD may be a endemic virus, a reovirus that they have addapted to atleast survive with, otherwise such a fatal virus would all but wipe out entire populations. Seeing as Australian animals are so adversely affected by IBD, it is logical to assume that they have not previously been in contact with IBD.

Just thought of another one.... the case where some noonan got busted importing GTP's into Cairns..... the animals were confiscated and destroyed, but not before a strain of OPMV, previously undocumented in Aus was identified.



richardsc said:


> i love how dse also use the old ibd topic and threat to native reps,to make them look like there doing the community and native reps a service,diseases are carried by our native species,the boas are at just as much risk of catching ibd or something of aussie species,



Now.... Richardsc, there is a vast difference between an endemic virus, and an exotic virus.... especially when we are talking high mortality outcomes, as you are with OPMV and IBD.


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## JasonL (Mar 5, 2009)

I beleive we know squat about all these diseases / virus's, be it a frog or snake...and all the rest is just here/say. Exotic reptiles have been bought into the country for various reasons for the last 100 plus years.


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## No-two (Mar 5, 2009)

seanjbkorbett said:


> haha man YOUR 17....ahaha..yeh i did drop out of school man..i was kool ...why werent u??..lol..and no ima steel roofer buddy!i work trade work..im not a Vet..,what do u do bro??....also in the next yr i hope to have my own business in Snake relocation,sall going well so far....cheers bro..im over this BS any way.i wasnt trying to diss any1....im going up to brizzy ta PARTAY!! wahoo.l8ers fellas..


 

What's wrong with being 17? I'm sure you were at one stage, or did you 'skip dat bro, fully'.

I forgot being 21 and owning a lacey made you a profesional.


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## shane14 (Mar 5, 2009)

No-two said:


> What's wrong with being 17? I'm sure you were at one stage, or did you 'skip dat bro, fully'.
> 
> I forgot being 21 and owning a lacey made you a profesional.



this is a great thread


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

pop corns ready,fight fight fight


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## southwazza (Mar 5, 2009)

definatly a good read, i think though if you choose to have exotics or anything that breaks the laws, if it blows up in your face you made the choice, you can't blame someone for dobbing. not saying that i'm always squeaky clean but i wouldnt blame someone for my bad choices


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## southwazza (Mar 5, 2009)

not to mention i cant really get why you would go through such an effort when we have some of the most amazing snakes right here, if exotics became legal i know i wouldnt be in the line


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

excellent answer wazza,my point exactly,this topic is like the hybrid ones,very amusing to see how passionate people are on either side,but funny how it ends up going off topic,and then folk go at each other like a pack of ten year olds,lol,nice post colin


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

richardsc said:


> exotics have also been found as escapees in aus,so no one can rule out issues with exotics becoming established in the wild,we dont need any more pests,we have native species to keep,and alot of choices,more choices than we will ever have the pleasure of owning,the whole exotic topic is pathetic,i highly doubt they will ever be legalised,
> 
> megrim,so are u saying introducing pest s to oz isnt destructive,new viruses and diseases????????????
> 
> ...



I most certainly do not condone the illegal importation of foreign species into Australia. At the end of the day, they're already here. And in significant numbers. The animals that are already here, some species for three decades now at least, pose no greater disease risk than anything in your, or my, collection.
Obviously they still pose a risk of becoming feral, but so does _any_ reptile species kept in captivity outside it's natural range should it escape. Importing species into this country has always had mixed results. Cane toads, Minah Birds and Rabbits to name but a few of the bad ones. Others have established wild populations without much fuss or notice, whilst most long-kept exotics have never become feral at all.

I simply don't believe the subject is as black-and-white as you'd like to make it out to be.

I still think your comparison of reporting arsonists to reporting keepers of illegal reptiles was in poor taste, and after recent events you could've perhaps chosen a better 'comparison'.


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## dragoncrab-64 (Mar 5, 2009)

I have to agree with TwentyB exotics are illegal why threaten our native species. Yes, so far the snakes werent hurting any one BUT they could... If one escaped and caused serious issues with the native balance in the area would you still think exotics are cool! 
Also on the dobber issue - I think the person did the right thing if they are illegal they are illegal. If you knew someone was being physically, sexually abused would you do nothing to stop it? If you said or did nothing then found out that person was seriously hurt or killed how would you feel... still righteous because you "kept your nose out of it". 
If the lady keeping the boas was eaten or killed by the boas what would you think then.... stupid woman she should never of kept exotics in the first place. 
Not interested in exotics love my natives.
Just my opinion on the topic.


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

dragoncrab-64 said:


> Also on the dobber issue - I think the person did the right thing if they are illegal they are illegal. If you knew someone was being physically, sexually abused would you do nothing to stop it? If you said or did nothing then found out that person was seriously hurt or killed how would you feel... still righteous because you "kept your nose out of it".
> If the lady keeping the boas was eaten or killed by the boas what would you think then.... stupid woman she should never of kept exotics in the first place.




Another horrible comparison. Like comparing apples and oranges. Or in this case, like comparing apples and child sexual abuse I guess.

And plenty of people keep potentially dangerous animals in this country, I don't think they are especially stupid for doing so. A person who keeps an inland taipan knows what it is capable of and has a general idea of the risks involved.
If that lady had been killed by her boas, I'd have seen it as unfortunate. Nothing more.


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## Reptilian66 (Mar 5, 2009)

l agree with Richardsc in what he his saying here, those of you who decide to brake the law by keeping exotic Reptile's, deserve to be fined or go to jail, we don't want anymore exotic Reptile's brought into or breed locally here in Australia, we have alot of beautiful native Python's, that need to be protected from exotic diseases such as OPMV and IBD.
A few reptile keepers who know me, know if l ever hear of anyone keeping and selling exotic or native Reptile's without a permit, and that includes taking native Reptile's from the wild without a take from the wild permit, l will be straight onto the phone in the state its happening in, to tell the wildlife authorities.
l have reported a few things since 1995 in VIC-SA-WA, the most interesting case was to do with the Varanus Penoptes in early 1995, and those who have been in the Reptile game since 1990, would know about this.upto 8 Varanus Penoptes were being kept here in Victoria under the false name Varanus Gouldii Gouldii Sand Monitor. l know who were the ones that had the Varanus Penoptes at the time, and they were force to sell them interstate.


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## dragoncrab-64 (Mar 5, 2009)

_Another horrible comparison. Like comparing apples and oranges. Or in this case, like comparing apples and child sexual abuse I guess._

It was an extreme comparison yes, but one to make a point, too many people these days think its ok to turn a blind eye to any illegal activity. 

_If the lady keeping the boas was eaten or killed by the boas what would you think then.... stupid woman she should never of kept exotics in the first place._
That is not my personal opinion, just another example, how people can switch their opinions so quickly depending on how the media spin a story.

I dont think you can say its a grey area. If we were allowed to keep exotics in australia then it wouldnt be illegal in the first place... Introduced species to date haven't been that successful.


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

poor taste perhaps,but it was to make a point,a good mate of mine from pheasant creek lost everything in those fires,luckily he got his missus and pets out,but lost everything,i went with an extreme example and im sorry

exotics are still being imported,last year a melb keeper and member of this forum was caught trying to import gtp into the country ,its foolish to think they are long term captives,just as its foolish to say there disease free or even totally clean,some things there is not as yet a way to test for such ailments,and autopsy is the only way to diagnose

end of the day buying exotics and the sellars making money draws them to bring more in,hell why smuggle green trees into aus when u can buy them legally,mind u most are the result of illegal importation already but thats another topic,lol,the reason is money and greed,the money smugglers make far outweighs the risks of being caught,and people that knowingly buy these animals are supporting it


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## xycom (Mar 5, 2009)

I think some of you folks would benefit from reading Tim Lows book "Feral future ", you may then understand why we have these laws.

Per


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

richardsc said:


> poor taste perhaps,but it was to make a point,a good mate of mine from pheasant creek lost everything in those fires,luckily he got his missus and pets out,but lost everything,i went with an extreme example and im sorry
> 
> exotics are still being imported,last year a melb keeper and member of this forum was caught trying to import gtp into the country ,its foolish to think they are long term captives,just as its foolish to say there disease free or even totally clean,some things there is not as yet a way to test for such ailments,and autopsy is the only way to diagnose
> 
> end of the day buying exotics and the sellars making money draws them to bring more in,hell why smuggle green trees into aus when u can buy them legally,mind u most are the result of illegal importation already but thats another topic,lol,the reason is money and greed,the money smugglers make far outweighs the risks of being caught,and people that knowingly buy these animals are supporting it



I completely agree, money is the motivating factor here, and if I'm honest, I wouldn't really know where to begin in terms of fixing the current ongoing issues with exotics in this country. I'd like to see exotics that are already here put on permits. I would like to see the importation of exotics legalised so long as proper quarantine could be enforced.
If you take away the 'black' in 'black-market' reptiles you won't have much left to smuggle.

However quarantine is likely to be lengthy and expensive, meaning that, (I would imagine) it would still be more cost effective for some of these twits to smuggle them in. Though perhaps the already established exotics here could play a part in satisfying the market... I'm even talking myself around in loops  It's a complicated issue no doubt.

My stance is simply that the current system is failing, and has routinely failed in the past, or we wouldn't have exotics, or the diseases they carry in Australia. Legalising exotics obviously wouldn't fix all the problems, but it might reduce smuggling, and between reduced smuggling and enforced quarantine there would at least be a dramatically lowered risk of disease.

Of course with widespread acceptance comes a much greater risk of feral populations developing, though to be fair, that may happen anyway under the current system.

I do tend to believe the hype of ferals is a bit over-blown myself. From what I've read, many if not most exotics commonly kept in captivity have quite specific husbandry needs, and would be unable to establish feral populations in most areas. A little like releasing a GTP into the Dandenong Ranges maybe? ... I'm not so good at comparisons myself :lol:


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## junglepython2 (Mar 5, 2009)

megrim said:


> I do tend to believe the hype of ferals is a bit over-blown myself. From what I've read, many if not most exotics commonly kept in captivity have quite specific husbandry needs, and would be unable to establish feral populations in most areas. A little like releasing a GTP into the Dandenong Ranges maybe? ... I'm not so good at comparisons myself :lol:


 
Yep tell that to the people of Guam.....


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## rebeccalg (Mar 5, 2009)

Some of you have clearly stated that you condone the keeping of exotic reptiles, I wonder if you condone the aquisition of exotic reptiles as well? Is it ok to breed exotics? Is it ok to import exotics? Is it ok to illegally capture exotics? Is it ok to smuggle these exotics into the country in inhumane conditions? And is it ok to buy these exotics on the black market?

If all of that is ok, then isn't it also ok by this standard to illegally capture natives? Export natives illegally? Smuggle them out of the country in inhume conditions? And then sell them on the ever present black market? Not an unreasonble comparison..... I dont think I would turn a blind eye to any of it.


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## zulu (Mar 5, 2009)

*re Boas*



JasonL said:


> I beleive we know squat about all these diseases / virus's, be it a frog or snake...and all the rest is just here/say. Exotic reptiles have been bought into the country for various reasons for the last 100 plus years.


Yes,its a worry though,just a load of crap this quarantine,a man could handle all the reptiles in a collection and be ****e on then go to a paddock pat and kiss a horse,make wooppee with an HIV positive person then get on a plane and hours later walk off at the airport and start again.


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## edgewing (Mar 5, 2009)

junglepython2 said:


> Yep tell that to the people of Guam.....



A very, very valid comparison and these only came in as stowaways not even as kept exotics.

This paper is an excellent read on the damage that an exotic can do to the local species.

http://horticulture.cfans.umn.edu/vd/h5015/00papers/amand.htm

Regards


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## saratoga (Mar 5, 2009)

Not just Guam......what about whats happening with introduced pythons in the Florida everglades.....and yes they result from unwanted or escaped pets!!


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## zulu (Mar 5, 2009)

*re Boas*

Yeh we could end up with deseased red tails breeding out of control in the dandennong everglades,god forbid the DSE would have to call on their secret weapon,skippy the bush kangaroo to jump up and down on them.


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

rebeccalg said:


> Some of you have clearly stated that you condone the keeping of exotic reptiles, I wonder if you condone the aquisition of exotic reptiles as well? Is it ok to breed exotics? Is it ok to import exotics? Is it ok to illegally capture exotics? Is it ok to smuggle these exotics into the country in inhumane conditions? And is it ok to buy these exotics on the black market?
> 
> If all of that is ok, then isn't it also ok by this standard to illegally capture natives? Export natives illegally? Smuggle them out of the country in inhume conditions? And then sell them on the ever present black market? Not an unreasonble comparison..... I dont think I would turn a blind eye to any of it.



It's not 'ok' to do any of the things you listed. They are illegal.

I'm trying to argue that the current system hasn't worked. Isn't working. It failed. It's failing.

All I'm seeing so far is knee-jerk nonsense. 

If exotics in this country will completely destroy our native wildlife, then we'd better start doing something because, as already clearly stated over and over again, they are already here. This is not an "If they are allowed into Australia" issue.

Does anyone else have any ideas on what could feasably be done to lower disease risks and at least slow smuggling if not stop it?. I know full well it's "evil", "terrible" etc. etc. etc. I'm interested to hear something a little more progressive, not just adjectives


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## junglepython2 (Mar 5, 2009)

You will never stop it, but if the courts actually got serious with the punishments it might make some people think twice.


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## megrim (Mar 5, 2009)

junglepython2 said:


> You will never stop it, but if the courts actually got serious with the punishments it might make some people think twice.



That's an interesting point. It seems to me that outside the herping world, keeping illegal exotics isn't taken very seriously. And outside animal welfare interests it's barely seen as a crime at all.
I'm not a native to this country so perhaps I'm missing something cultural that would perpetuate these sorts of attitudes. The courts don't seem to even take much of a stand on the scum that import the poor creatures. I really do wonder why there's such a relaxed attitude to it.

_Edit: _On the subject of Guam- Australia is not a tiny isolated island with no native snakes of it's own. Guam itsself already contained 8 foreign introduced bird species before BTS got there. Those 8 exotic bird species had managed to intergrate themselves without too much trouble. Of course it doesn't downgrade the damage BTS has done to Guam, but the circumstances are wildly different. An introduced species has no garuntee of survival, let alone feral potential, but again, I ask for some ideas if folk have them, on either regulating, banning or monitoring exotics in Australia


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## hallie (Mar 5, 2009)

No-two said:


> Why even bother with punctuation when you clearly can't spell? You must have been one of the "cool kids" in school who has since dropped out and is a trainee burger flipper, or electrician. I'm sure of it. Perhaps you shoudl've learnt how to read and write, maybe then you'd be able to read up about how these exotics carry disease, rather then needing someone to explain it to you in laymen terms.


 
This is off topic but dont knock sparkies mate, heating your precious enclosures would be tough without us...

We cant all do brain surgery or build rockets for nasa like yourself...lol


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## snakesalive (Mar 5, 2009)

i think everyone needs to chill the ******* out ! seriosuly. and as for the electrician comment i am a sparky and i can tell you now its not that simple and deffinently shouldnt be compared to flipping burgers and you can make a fortune doing it.


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

another exellent example junglepython2,another classic example is florida in the u sa,they have established populations of exotics from all over the world there,guam has brown tree snakes that have decimated there bird life,even if u licenced the exotics here already,more would be smuggled in during the amnesty,and even after it,how many gtp,s are still being smuggled into australia


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## ivonavich (Mar 5, 2009)

here we go!! what the **** is wrong with cooking for a living?:lol: 


But in all seriousness I agree with the "It's illegal" side of this argument... the law is the law when it comes to exotic animals - no grey areas!!!! The reasons behind the law may be flawed in some people's veiw but that doesn't give them the right to break said law - END OF STORY!!!!


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

um the idea to curb exotics was making the keeping of them illegal,ways to stop it further would be higher penalties for illegal possession and even higher for sellers,oh and DOBBING,lol


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

oi,whos knocking us chefs,lol


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## richardsc (Mar 5, 2009)

at the end of the day no matter what strategy is put in place its going to be a failure,as with everything theres 2 sides,and they will never meet on common grounds,i couldnt care less bout keeping an exotic,even if it was legalised,i have to many aussie species on my wish list as it is


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## sarah_m (Mar 5, 2009)

She would have been aware that what she was doing was illegal.

So she was caught, too bad, so sad you do the wrong thing you pay for it.
She also would most likely have known that if she were caught the animals would be euthanised. She still chose to do it. Cant be that much of an animal lover.


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## sarah_m (Mar 5, 2009)

Anyone know where this happened? A friend told me it was Carrum and that she wondered if it was mine (since i am the only person she knows who owns a snake and lives in Carrum Downs)


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## mungus (Mar 6, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> our native wildlife is something i care for greatly,
> sure these exotics are beautiful animals, and if they werelegal, then i would own quite a few exotics,
> but the point is the are NOT LEGAL,
> i am glad keepers of them are getting busted,
> ...



Feel sorry for a few gtp keepers then............:lol::lol:


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## TWENTY B (Mar 6, 2009)

mungus said:


> Feel sorry for a few gtp keepers then............:lol::lol:


oh, they are in so much trouble... lol

i'm by no means a goodie goodie, anyone who knows my driving history can attest to that.
and i'm not a dobber either, usually.
but if you do something illegal, you know the risk you are taking, and the penalty that getting cought has.
knowing that you could get cought or dobbed in, doesn't matter that illegal activity you are doing.

If i found someone breeding exotics, i'd happily hand them over to the relevant authority.

i have told friends who planned on getting an exotic that as a friend i would not allow them to.
the risk was not worth it. 
and now they are licenced keepers of native animals. and couldn't be happier....

as for colin, mayhem and the rest of you who jumped on the band wagon...
issues like this, and hybrids, i will never back down on.
and you will never be right, 
for once, even the law will back me on this one

personaly, i'd like to see them all eradicated from this country except for zoo's and other legally approved, and responsible collections.


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## Mayhem (Mar 6, 2009)

TWENTY B said:


> i'm by no means a goodie goodie, anyone who knows my driving history can attest to that.
> and i'm not a dobber either, usually.
> but if you do something illegal, you know the risk you are taking, and the penalty that getting cought has.
> knowing that you could get cought or dobbed in, doesn't matter that illegal activity you are doing.
> ...


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## Colin (Mar 6, 2009)

whatever  go fetch the stick


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## TWENTY B (Mar 6, 2009)

lmao, so mature..


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