# GTP's stolen at gunpoint.



## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

*Here we go again... another robbery*

Just had a call from my flatmate (as you do at 5.30am lol)... he just heard on the news that a woman here in Hewitt, SA, was home invaded last night and had her 9 GTPs stolen... her and her son were apparently bound and held at gunpoint while they took them. Again, someone knew exactly what they were after and where to find them. Thankfully I don't think either the lady or her son were hurt.... but as Marc would know, how devastating.... :cry: :cry: :x :x


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Oct 5, 2006)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1755783.htm
wow

Print 

Email 
*Last Update:* Wednesday, October 4, 2006. 10:43pm (AEST)
*Family tied up in armed snake robbery*

South Australian police are investigating a bizarre armed robbery from a house in north Adelaide, in which 12 valuable, one-year-old snakes were stolen at gunpoint.
Police say a woman answered her front door to be confronted by a man holding a black pistol in the outer northern suburb of Hewitt about 2:30pm ACST.
He demanded 12 non-poisonous green-tree snakes, worth $9,000 dollars each, that were being kept in the house.
After placing the snakes in a duffel bag, the man tied the woman and her two children up before leaving.
Police are looking for the man, aged in his 30s, with a solid build and a deep voice.
He had a dark coloured goatee beard and wore dark blue trousers and a shirt.
He was also wearing a brown broad-brimmed hat and sunglasses.


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## nightowl (Oct 5, 2006)

This is getting beyond pathetic. There is some real losers out there!!


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## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

Thanks ssssnakeman, I was just going to say I heard a different report on another station that said it was 12 x 80cm GTPs....

It's a sad world we live in


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## Retic (Oct 5, 2006)

It doesn't matter what security system you have it doesn't stop a man with a gun. As has been said it's a very sad world we live in. :-(


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## adbacus (Oct 5, 2006)

That wasn't the only one, someone broke into a house and stole a 9 yr old's blue tongue yesterday too. Pathetic low lifes. I hope someone catches them


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## AustHerps (Oct 5, 2006)

very sad news indeed


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## Linus (Oct 5, 2006)

crumbs. armed robbery of snakes. 

whatever happened to people just stealing jewellery and tvs.

really raises questions about the risks of having a valuable collection i guess.


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## Mayo (Oct 5, 2006)

This is getting bad, what do they think they are going to do with these snakes. No one with a licence would buy them so there goes most of your market, where do they plan to sell them.


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## kwaka_80 (Oct 5, 2006)

blackmarket, or even keep them himself ... makes me think of getting taipans and painting them green and call them pythons if anyone breaks in to steal them ill gladly unlock the enclosure for them


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## Nagraj (Oct 5, 2006)

South Australian police are investigating a bizarre armed robbery from a house in north Adelaide, in which 12 valuable, one-year-old snakes were stolen at gunpoint.


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## alumba (Oct 5, 2006)

what the hell is this world coming to?
people desperate enough to steal snakes
hope they where microchiped


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

I won't comment about the common theft here compared to NZ for fear of upsetting you Aussies. Rest assured it is a little disappointing - as an example when I flew over here from NZ for this job interview..I was in the interveiw for 90 minutes and when I came out my best mates car I had borrowed had been broken into and my wallet and cell were gone!

The best thing is it was in the work carpark...and my best mate works here!!


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## NRE-808 (Oct 5, 2006)

that's just plain *****  there's nothing i hate more than thieves.... i hope they find them and that they are ok and the perpetrators are given the maximum possible penalty for it.


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## slim6y (Oct 5, 2006)

Not to be nit-picky but aren't there a few editorial errors in that commentry... for one.. I wouldn't pay $9000 for a green tree snake, maybe a GTP!!! Secondly, all snakes are non-poisonous... Some are venomous... but that doesn't make them poisonous (hehe - im in a bad mood obviously - hate hearing about animals being stolen - any animal!).

Surely to sell these pythons there must be some sort of process to go through... or are they all pre-sold??? It makes me sick that people do this for money, and not the love and passion of snakes. 

To be honest, if that guy stole them and kept them for himself I could 'understand' it. But it's all greed. Makes me sick sick sick sick... Hence the bad mood.

Well, the next wish I make is that those 12 GTP are returned alive and unharmed. The man who stole them is jailed for 15 years and dirty things happen to him and his bottom and then finally one of his finger nails gets festy.

Up yours theif!


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Oct 5, 2006)

put them it a room full of hungry brown snakes and copper heads black bellys and cover them in rat sent!!! Bast$$ds!!! poor family!!


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2006)

It is not hard to fudge permits/licences for illegally obtained snakes. all you need to know is someone with a pair and write them up as stock that has been bred. Alot of people also keep there permoits for animals that have died, just incase one falls into there lap. 

And slimy... I think you are being a bit nit picky. I hope that all the animals get returned in a healthy state. But something tells me that that wont be happening.


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## slim6y (Oct 5, 2006)

I just put my 2 cents worth on the same topic in a different thread... http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=40615 feel free to read it.. and I am backing up my comment in hoping the at least one of the thieves fingerneails turns festy... Sick sick sick sick....


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*9 year olds blue tongues*



adbacus said:


> That wasn't the only one, someone broke into a house and stole a 9 yr old's blue tongue yesterday too. Pathetic low lifes. I hope someone catches them



Yeah that's right. They stole the 9 years olds blue tongue and his mum's violin that was dated at 1760 was taken from their Port Melbourne house. The violin alone would have beenw orth $$$$$$$$$$$ and probably covered by insurance. The bluey however would not have been covered. The poor kid had everything done right in his tank set-up. All prefect and now his herping hoppy has been ruined.

This sucks big time. This is not herp people taking this course of action. This would be poachers keeping an eye on who has what animals and then taking them and shipping them off on the black market. To resort to gun toting thuggery they need to be hung if caught.:twisted:


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## slim6y (Oct 5, 2006)

Kiwicam said:


> I won't comment about the common theft here compared to NZ for fear of upsetting you Aussies. Rest assured it is a little disappointing - as an example when I flew over here from NZ for this job interview..I was in the interveiw for 90 minutes and when I came out my best mates car I had borrowed had been broken into and my wallet and cell were gone!
> 
> The best thing is it was in the work carpark...and my best mate works here!!



Aweee Kiwi.... the amount of times my car got broken into or stolen really doesn't add up to my 'pets' going walkies with another owner without my consent.... Well, atleast you didn't keep your GTPs in your car then... lucky (not to mention the fact that if they were in NZ you'd be having troubles with customs as well as the police... which brings me to my next question.. I wonder if anyone has inadvertantly, or on purpose, ever imported a snake illegally into NZ???) Not hijacking this thread.. just thinking while typing... Go catch those ********$


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Nasty little kwaka*



kwaka_80 said:


> blackmarket, or even keep them himself ... makes me think of getting taipans and painting them green and call them pythons if anyone breaks in to steal them ill gladly unlock the enclosure for them



That's just plain nasty, dangerous and really really good. Great idea Kwaka.


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

slim6y said:


> Aweee Kiwi.... the amount of times my car got broken into or stolen really doesn't add up to my 'pets' going walkies with another owner without my consent.... Well, atleast you didn't keep your GTPs in your car then... lucky (not to mention the fact that if they were in NZ you'd be having troubles with customs as well as the police... which brings me to my next question.. I wonder if anyone has inadvertantly, or on purpose, ever imported a snake illegally into NZ???) Not hijacking this thread.. just thinking while typing... Go catch those ********$


 
Agreed, and as I mentioned I have ALOT more examples but won't go into detail here - just really ****es me off and as I mentioned is very disappointing having ppl liberate you of anything, let alone pets. i just meant it seems much more prevelant and noticeable here, which is a shame


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## slim6y (Oct 5, 2006)

waruikazi said:


> And slimy... I think you are being a bit nit picky. I hope that all the animals get returned in a healthy state. But something tells me that that wont be happening.



But they are editorial errors  it's common for newspapers to misprint information... and that poisonous thing bugs me... sorry... but snakes just AREN'T poisonous! Toadstalls and mushrooms (of various varieties) are poisonous... Snakes are venomous - huge diff! But to detract from the point... Go catch em... Hope the police/customs or whoever else catches those crimms and they get what's coming to them!


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2006)

Lol sorry mate. Think i just woke up on the wrong side of the bed.


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## slim6y (Oct 5, 2006)

waruikazi said:


> Lol sorry mate. Think i just woke up on the wrong side of the bed.



Haha... well to put it in to persepective... atleast your 12 most valuable children weren't ripped from you at gunpoint yesterday.... 

Wishing for that festy fingernail on the crim... if we all wish it hard enough it will happen (my mumy said so).

So really, you're having a GREAT day


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2006)

Yeah you're right. My day isn't that bad at all.


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Oct 5, 2006)

this is sick what is wrong with people?? Its a sad day when nothing is safe anymore... i used to worry about my tv and car no i have to add my herps to it???

i shouldnt be suprised my staffy was stolen when i was a kid (and i got him back!!!) i stopped it happening again by getting him desexed.. there is only 2 things a male staffy is stolen for fighting and breeding more fighting dogs and its sick. i No that you cant fight snakes and its a money making thing but what is wrong with the world?

Were is all the bloody respect?? for anything???

the poor kid having his bluey taken!!! its pathetic


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## peterjohnson64 (Oct 5, 2006)

This is why I dont like seeing 38 Guests online here. I would much prefer that this be a closed forum. Why do so many people need to read these posts anonymously? Sign up or go to petlink!!!


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 5, 2006)

Lol sorry mate. Think i just woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I don't think so... Slimy's contribution to this very important matter is absolutely pointless. This is a thread about a VERY serious crime, not a stage for him/her to nit pick about the vagaries of journalism. In this thread, who cares about what he/she thinks of the difference between poisonous/venomous etc... etc...etc... I certainly don't.

Jamie.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*No offence*



Kiwicam said:


> Agreed, and as I mentioned I have ALOT more examples but won't go into detail here - just really ****es me off and as I mentioned is very disappointing having ppl liberate you of anything, let alone pets. i just meant it seems much more prevelant and noticeable here, which is a shame




But is it more prevalent and noticeable here because your actually over here and not over there.:lol: 

There are parts of NZ that have excatly the same problem. Most of the problems over here are caused by the Kiwi's that are coming over here in the first place.:shock: :lol: 

Only joking about the Kiwi's causing the problems. Flam suit on and ready for Kiwicam


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*True*



peterjohnson64 said:


> This is why I dont like seeing 38 Guests online here. I would much prefer that this be a closed forum. Why do so many people need to read these posts anonymously? Sign up or go to petlink!!!



You are a man of wisdom Pete and never a truer word could be spoken.


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## pythoness (Oct 5, 2006)

Man i just can't believe this **** just keeps happening. That poor woman, not just for having her bubs stolen, but to be tied up and held at gun point is just terrifying for her and her kids, they will have nightmares for years now, thoes poor kids, and all for a few bucks worth of scales. Their lives will never be the same now.
I for one will never post in a thread started as "what have you got" not telling scum what i have, even tho i have nothing of great value, and at this rate i never will. Why would i work and slog my guts out to get a wonderfull GTP or BHP or woma etc, only to know that the chances of some scum holding me and my girls at gunpoint to get to them is raising everyday. This is the 3rd big theft in as many weeks, and i am shattered to hear about it. This time it has just gone to far, thoes poor kids. 
Man, almost makes me not want to let ANYONE know i have snakes. This is just too much.


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## Glimmerman (Oct 5, 2006)

That's an excellent point Pete. 

This is becoming an absolute joke. It makes our hobby / passion polluted. How can you trust anyone anymore? Even the fact of posting pics of your animals laying a clutch that you are proud of and would like to show all your community buddies..... But at what price?

It's a bloody damb shame. 

Something is seriously wrong with this F&*^ up world. (Sorry, I'm a bit irrate today. My wifes friend died on Tuesday night after buying a bunch of &*^%ers a pie on the weekend and then got bashed over it and put in a coma.)


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## popeye (Oct 5, 2006)

low lifes everywhere, we r all proud of our collections whether small ,medium or large, i would like to be able to show mine to the world. im proud of the reptiles ,improud of the condition they r in and im proud of the conditions they r keeped in, but i have to hide them away like im some kind of dv8, a young fella from where i live knocked on my door the other day wonting to see my babies ,ihad to tell him that i had gotten rid of them,bloody thieves have now turned me into a lier.


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## moosenoose (Oct 5, 2006)

Terrible news, and sadly it's becoming more and more common.


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## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

Apparently, as reproted in the Advertiser today, the same house had a $20,000 1 metre long GTP stolen from it back in 2004, I remember hearing about it on the news at the time. If the paper realised how common stealing people's herps was they wouldn't be calling it "bizarre". I was only thinking earlier it wouldn't be too hard to make stolen herps look legal on paper in most instances... only thing is, with GTPs, I doubt anyone who had saved up to buy a pair would be willing to lie for a "mate" who stole some saying they bought a clutch from them... 

The poor kid that had his blue tongue stolen too... the violin would have been worth a small fortune, why take the blue tongue too?!

I really don't understand people...  and if the law doesn't catch up with whoever is responsible (in all cases) I hope karma does...


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Soory to hear Glimmerman*

Sorry to here that Glimmerman. Give my condolences. More crap happening in the world. 

On a further point of exotics, stolen herps, smuggling etc etc. This is where I get upset.

People have openly bragged about having Corn Snakes and other animals and having no license at all. This is where the problems arises. If these people do not buy stolen animals, if these people do not buy exotics then there will not be a market for them. It's like anything stop the need and you stop the supply.

I guess most of the stolen animals from this country will most definately be heading over seas to foreign collections. Sorry guys but you have to admit it. If the exotics can come in to our country you can bet your *** they can get out.


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## cris (Oct 5, 2006)

boa said:


> It doesn't matter what security system you have it doesn't stop a man with a gun. As has been said it's a very sad world we live in. :-(



That isnt exactly true a man with a gun isnt much of a threat if he has a enough holes in him 
If i had over $150000 worth of snakes i would be ready to protect them. Sadly these days if anyone has that amount of valueable herps it seem like its just a matter of time before someone finds out you have them 
Its a real shame how there are so many dodgy criminals in the herp world.


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## dynea (Oct 5, 2006)

OMFG, I cant believe this.....
What is our hobbie coming too?
there not drugs, there snakes. why in the world..... you cant blame this on a need to get high, or being high. I'm discusted that our herping comunitie is under threat by some loosers that cant control there f/witt lives.
Was this woman a APS member?
*lightbulb moment* it only just occured to me that NPAWS know everything that we own, who's to say that there isn't a rouge person that works there stealing all of these snakes.*slams fist on desk*


Glimmerman i heard about that on the news, I'm sorry to hear that he was a mate of yours. 
my condolences too you, and your family.

dynea


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Because*



tempest said:


> The poor kid that had his blue tongue stolen too... the violin would have been worth a small fortune, why take the blue tongue too?!QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Because they do not have a heart. They would have been able to clearly see that it was a young boys bed room. The kid had it set up just opposite his bed. These people deserve the 3 strikes and your out rule.:twisted:


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## pythoness (Oct 5, 2006)

*GRAB YOUR TORCH AND PITCHFORK *


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## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> These people deserve the 3 strikes and your out rule.:twisted:



I wouldn't even give them 3 strikes after all of this going on. Heartless is right Shamous... that's the tragedy of it and why thefts like these keep happening. It really does make you question your faith in humankind. 

Glimmerman, I'm ever so sorry to hear about what happened to your wife's friend, my condolensces to you and your wife :cry:


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> These people deserve the 3 strikes and your out rule.:twisted:


 
I would prefer to go with "The three strikes to the head with a baseball bat and your outta here" rule personally.
But I am not a violent person...really the military only taught us to kill bad people, by any and all means necessary. :twisted:

As far as having a gun - even Bruce Lee said no one is faster than a bullet, and I wouldn't have even taken him on with three guns myself.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Yes Tempest but you misunderstood me. I did'nt mean 3 strikes and in the lock-up. I meant three strikes with an axe, or 3 strikes with a sword or 3 strikes .......well you get my point. Bodily harm and yes Pythoness pitchforks and Torches all round.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

You beat me to it Kiwicam.


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## Retic (Oct 5, 2006)

As I have said before, no-one is going to try and smuggle these animals out of the country when they are freely and cheaply available overseas. 



shamous1 said:


> I guess most of the stolen animals from this country will most definately be heading over seas to foreign collections. Sorry guys but you have to admit it. If the exotics can come in to our country you can bet your *** they can get out.


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## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> Yes Tempest but you misunderstood me. I did'nt mean 3 strikes and in the lock-up. I meant three strikes with an axe, or 3 strikes with a sword or 3 strikes .......well you get my point. Bodily harm and yes Pythoness pitchforks and Torches all round.



That's my non violent nature which made me think the more innocent of the options Shamous... but hey, I think with all of this going on that might be a thing of the past... *sigh* maybe I should train my bullmastiff to become an attack dog on command...


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## 6ftPython (Oct 5, 2006)

Not to Hijack, but as noted this (stealing of Herps) is becoming regular. As most people have stated, it must have been done by someone who knows where and what snakes are available. 

Would it be impossible to think that perhaps the National Parks and Wildlife data base has been compromised some how? If you think about it they would have all the information, addresses and types of herps kept there??

Not dissing the NPW, but it's an idea....???


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## moosenoose (Oct 5, 2006)

boa said:


> As I have said before, no-one is going to try and smuggle these animals out of the country when they are freely and cheaply available overseas.




I agree. Surely like having security stickers on the outside of your home to help deter thieves from "choosing” your home as a target, Micro-chipping the odd larger animal (not all) would act in the same way??? It might not aid in catching them in the immediate future, but sometime down the track someone, somewhere, will probably take that animal to a vet, and I’m not talking about the callous thief who stole it in the first place because obviously they couldn’t give a rats! Sadly it’d be some poor sucker who’s dished out his hard earned for a stolen animal, but now you’d have the link! 

For all those who deal from carparks etc to sell their animals, this should also serve as a "buyer beware" warning!


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*New Zealand*

Just a question regarding New Zealand if anyone can answer. Maybe Kiwicam is he's still on. Are GTP's Woma's, Blackeads etc etc available over there on license?


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## tebz (Oct 5, 2006)

thats just stupid, some people in this world they just annoy me so much!!! tebz


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## RevDaniel (Oct 5, 2006)

I am very sorry to hear that. i hope the crooks get caught.


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## 6ftPython (Oct 5, 2006)

Does anyone think my theroy about the National Parks and wildlife data base?


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## Nome (Oct 5, 2006)

Someone knew he had 12 yearlings, I'll bet a potential buyer.

This person also must have had the house under survellience knowing when the owner was out and to go in when it was just the wife and kids at home. Much easier threatening women and children with a gun than going through a secruity system.

If it's the same guy as in 2004, that's just doubly bad.

It's scary what lengths people will go to...we've been talking about getting greens for a while, but this is the whole and sole reason why I don't want to, it's bad enough now living in secrecy of not wanting people to visit at all, I can't imagine how things would have to be like if we had greens or the like.

People in my area talk about taking wild diamonds, for some reason the general public thinks they are worth thousands! No reptile is safe when people think this, as is shown by the bluetongue story. 

It's really depressing, and I'm really sorry for the poor family who that happened to.


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## steve6610 (Oct 5, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> Just a question regarding New Zealand if anyone can answer. Maybe Kiwicam is he's still on. Are GTP's Woma's, Blackeads etc etc available over there on license?



hi shamous,
i might be wrong, but there are no snakes in nz, i'm not certain but i'm guessing the only snakes in nz would be illegal, i know i spent 3 months there and thats one thing you don't have to worry about, getting bit by a snake in the long grass, pmsl..........


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

If the snakes I mentioned are not available on license in NZ then would'nt that be a good avenue for smugglers? If they are not available in NZ then there would have to be adefinate market, would'nt there?


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## moosenoose (Oct 5, 2006)

6ftPython said:


> Does anyone think my theroy about the National Parks and wildlife data base?




Yeah I love a good conspiracy story, but I think I'll wait for the movie :lol:


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## jessop (Oct 5, 2006)

tempest said:


> Apparently, as reproted in the Advertiser today, the same house had a $20,000 1 metre long GTP stolen from it back in 2004, I remember hearing about it on the news at the time. If the paper realised how common stealing people's herps was they wouldn't be calling it "bizarre"



Quite true Tempest, herp theft is becoming more and more common each day...
I think what makes this news story "bizzare" is the fact that it was done at gunpoint, like a bank robbery or store hold up. That truely amazes me as all of the herp thefts i have read about (most from this forum) are usually non confrontational ie. a break in whilst owners are away or asleep. To think that someone would threaten with a gun... OMG what is the world coming to?:x I hope they get caught. The charges laid against the offender/s would be huge!


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> Just a question regarding New Zealand if anyone can answer. Maybe Kiwicam is he's still on. Are GTP's Woma's, Blackeads etc etc available over there on license?


 
NZ law prohibits any type of snake in NZ, even for zoos! - strict biosecurity laws. Though it is possible to import aussie lizards for display in the zoo.

So yea I had never seen a live snake for real before I came over here 

http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/publications/primarysource/september-2003/primary-source-0903-8.htm


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## jeramie85 (Oct 5, 2006)

i feel really sorry for the people who have lost there animals  

id rather loose every item in my house before loosing any one of my animals

although my house is under constant serveilance and a few items i leave around the house in case someone tries it doesnt mean it cant happen


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

If this is the same house as 2004 then most of us know who this person is and my thoughts are certainly with them. This incident was definitely only about the snakes unlike many others. Last time (in 2004) was a break in that was disturbed and they only got one snake.


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 5, 2006)

Armed robbery would attract a potential jail sentence of up to 10 years I would imagine, Oh hang on, who am I kidding, our judicial system is too lenient.


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## jeramie85 (Oct 5, 2006)

Pilbara
i agree in one way about it being to lenient but then again sometimes i think it is too harsh where it shouldnt be


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Armed robbery would attract a potential jail sentence of up to 10 years I would imagine, Oh hang on, who am I kidding, our judicial system is too lenient.


 
I wouldn't go too hard on your judicial system or police etc as they have heaps more respect than NZ police.
Case in point a chick called 111 from someones house and reported being assaulted and followed etc out at Piha beach (west of AKL) one night not long ago...so the police sent a taxi out. She was never seen again. :shock:


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## Nagraj (Oct 5, 2006)

peterjohnson64 said:


> This is why I dont like seeing 38 Guests online here. I would much prefer that this be a closed forum. Why do so many people need to read these posts anonymously? Sign up or go to petlink!!!




I'm curious as to how you think registering removes anonymity?


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## Jakee (Oct 5, 2006)

Lately there have been alot of herps stolen like Agamdae, The people with the 9 GTP and a little kid got his blue tongue stolen over night  
Sad very sad. i hope they catch them.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

SO. Let me get this right. No snakes in NZ at all. I guess that would be an excellent market for snakes to be smuggled to, would'nt it guys.

Don't go telling me that there are not people in NZ that do not have beautiful exotic animals in their private collections.

After all how easy would it be? They are our closest neighbour so don't tell me it can't happen.


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## Earthling (Oct 5, 2006)

The licencing authority have your address.....
the people you buy reptiles off have your details(QLD Lic papers have residential address of buyer).......
the company you buy retile products online have your address.....
All of these databases could be viewed by friends/family/work experience people/cleaner the list goes on. 
Even APS wants address and the like....

you could be found very easily.

Post Office box always.


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## Tsidasa (Oct 5, 2006)

tempest said:


> The poor kid that had his blue tongue stolen too... the violin would have been worth a small fortune, why take the blue tongue too?!


 
Unfortunately at a guess considering blue tongue's aren't worth that much in a monetary sense, i wouldn't actually like to speculate the reason for it actually being taken.
Just saying considering what people do to each other and animals it wouldn't surprise me if the abduction of the lizard was just for fun's sake.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Address*



Earthling said:


> The licencing authority have your address.....
> the people you buy reptiles off have your details(QLD Lic papers have residential address of buyer).......
> the company you buy retile products online have your address.....
> All of these databases could be viewed by friends/family/work experience people/cleaner the list goes on.
> ...



Maybe people can gain access????

APS does not require your address. They only require a valid e-mail and a contact phone number


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## Kiwicam (Oct 5, 2006)

> Posted by *Shamous1*
> _SO. Let me get this right. No snakes in NZ at all. I guess that would be an excellent market for snakes to be smuggled to, would'nt it guys._
> 
> _Don't go telling me that there are not people in NZ that do not have beautiful exotic animals in their private collections._
> ...


 
I actually think Papua New Guinea is *Australias*P ) closest neighbour - but I am just being pedantic  

Of course ppl would have them, but I would say it certainly aint easy getting it there. MAF are pretty good, which is why NZ still doesn't have snakes and poisonous spiders (bar the Katipo) in numbers in the wild.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Scumbags*



Tsidasa said:


> Unfortunately at a guess considering blue tongue's aren't worth that much in a monetary sense, i wouldn't actually like to speculate the reason for it actually being taken.
> Just saying considering what people do to each other and animals it wouldn't surprise me if the abduction of the lizard was just for fun's sake.



It would be a scumbag knocking off the violin. Probably one that wanted to look good in front of his own kid by giving him a lizard as a present.


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## jeramie85 (Oct 5, 2006)

from memory aps wants the town or suburb you live in


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*No it's not*



Kiwicam said:


> I actually think Papua New Guinea is your closet neighbour - but I am just being pedantic
> 
> Of course ppl would have them, but I would say it certainly aint easy getting it there. MAF are pretty good, which is why NZ still doesn't have snakes and poisonous spiders (bar the Katipo) in numbers in the wild.



I'm in Victoria. So NZ is my closest neighbour not PNG. Now I'm being pedantic:lol:


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## NoOne (Oct 5, 2006)

Apparently now APS asks for your pretty specific location. I never have nor ever will answer anything other than general area of where I live in a huge kilometer radius. Nor do I give out my home phone number to anyone, only close family has it, I just like when the phone rings that I don't have to worry about who it is because I know it's usually someone I want to talk to.

Yep, silent number and PO Box is the way to go. So many people don't realize just how anyone can find out your name and jsut look it up on whitepages.com and find out where you live. I've had a silent number for the past 10 years now.

Tsaida, the general public really does think that reptiles are worth way more than what they are. LIke I mentioned before, locals around here reckon the wild diamonds are worth thousands. Have to say I was surprised on how cheap snakes were when I first got into the hobby.


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## Nome (Oct 5, 2006)

Whoops, the above post was me^^^, I didn't realize duga was logged in.


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## JEZ (Oct 5, 2006)

Terrible news!!

I can't beleive what's happening to our hobby!!


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Maybe we should run our own politicl party. Rights for reptiles and their owners. I reckon we could geta seat in the upper house.


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## Jumala (Oct 5, 2006)

OMG I can't believe how these large scale incidents are becoming more common!
Just goes to show that you can't have faith in everyone. 
We are also not listed in the phone book for security reasons ......


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Silent numbers are worth it. I've had one for over 10 years for past job reasons.


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## cris (Oct 5, 2006)

Wouldnt it be very likely that the person who stole them knows or is someone who holds legal GTPs?
Or is there a massive black market for animals that can easily be obtained legally?


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Both*



cris said:


> Wouldnt it be very likely that the person who stole them knows or is someone who holds legal GTPs?
> Or is there a massive black market for animals that can easily be obtained legally?



I think there could be a bit of both. Very destinct possibility.


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## junglepython2 (Oct 5, 2006)

If they bothered to crack down on the exotic black market this crap would become so much rarer.


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## OzGecko (Oct 5, 2006)

Putting 2 and 2 together from the articles I am fairly certain I know who the victim is. Cant say I know him well, I have only met him briefly at a BBQ last year. But If you happen to read this, I hope your family are okay mate, this is a terrible thing to happen.
Unfortunately incidents like this can make a person give up on the hobby.


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## OzGecko (Oct 5, 2006)

6ftPython said:


> Does anyone think my theroy about the National Parks and wildlife data base?



I have questinoed NPWS regarding this in the past with examples, but they say that no one would risk their job.
I guess we only have their word on that though.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

OzGecko said:


> I have questinoed NPWS regarding this in the past with examples, but they say that no one would risk their job.
> I guess we only have their word on that though.



Any government data base can be hacked into or money paid for info on collections. It happens in all sorts of life where money is paid for reutrn of information. I'm not saying that there is rampant abuse by DSE, or NPWS etc etc are crooks but there would have to be flaws somewhere along the line.


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## cris (Oct 5, 2006)

junglepython2 said:


> If they bothered to crack down on the exotic black market this crap would become so much rarer.



please explain :? I dont see how this has anything to do with exotics. 
I would be suprised if these animals dont end up in someones record books IMO a illegal herp would be worth less than a legal one.


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

Well folks, it has already been posted on another forum so I guess I am not letting anything out now. It is confirmed as Darren Boswell's collection. He is no longer keeping herps.

Now, didn't someone make some rather disparaging remarks about Darren's collection recently? If those comments were correct lets get the message out. 

Also, Darren had recently posted adds for some chondro's for sale on an internet herp site (or number of). Mmm.


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## shelby (Oct 5, 2006)

It would depend weather they are sold in Aust or if they are imported over seas


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## herptrader (Oct 5, 2006)

It is indeed a sad state of affairs. It is likely that the trauma of being held at gun point and tied up will haunt the victims for the rest of their lives. They have my complete sympathy.

I would have thought there would be a reasonable chance of tracking down the culprits. If you are going to steal 9 of them in a well planned crime then you must have a way of selling them. On that basis the person(s) who now has these animals is probably a licensed keeper (probably also in SA), would have at least a pair of GTP’s on their books so they can pass off the extra numbers as ones they bred themselves. This would severely limit the number of possible perpetrators to the extent that they can all be thoroughly investigated. IMHO, given the violent nature of the crime it is also likely that the perpetrators have form and would have been investigated previously. If the authorities correlate all this information I doubt they would come up with more than one or two suspects.

It is not the first time that GTP’s have been stolen in violent fashion and in this part of the world.

[FONT=&quot]A very sad state of affairs indeed. [/FONT]


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## Coils (Oct 5, 2006)

*GTPs stolen at Gunpoint*

Some of you may know me as you have purchased snakes from me. I can assure you that no amount of GTPs is worth having your family terrified and tied up waiting to see if they are going to be shot.

I can also assure you that this person who carried out the crime was NOT a snake person (I cannot give any further detail on why)

I can also tell you that my permit number which was posted as per SA law on the herp trader with my ad for 2 yearlings was the link that confirmed to the theif that I had the animals. The ad went up on the 3/10. 

Therefore, at least the information had to come from someone I have had transactions with as the ad did not mention my name or location and I used a new mobile phone number. He also knew my name.

This person does not yet fully realise the gravity of what he has done, he will soon.

I will leave no stone unturned for however long it takes to solve this.

As for the snakes, Im glad he got them all, as now we can not isolate ourselves as we have in the past due to fears of this kind of crime. 

I am happy to email photos of these snakes to anyone who is interested. CIB also have a disc containing them all, along with all of my permit records.

Quite frankly, I will not miss all the bickering, jealousy and tall poppy chopping that goes with keeping and breeding GTPs. Who ever has them, hope you enjoy them, its just a pity you didnt have the dedication to raise and breed your own. You piece of ****.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Not sure*



cris said:


> please explain :? I dont see how this has anything to do with exotics.
> I would be suprised if these animals dont end up in someones record books IMO a illegal herp would be worth less than a legal one.



If GTP's are not allowed in NZ would they not be classed as an exotic? What is native to us is not native to NZ for example and in the hands of a private collector (whom I'm sure would pay a pretty penny) they would be highly sort after would they not? JMO


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## junglepython2 (Oct 5, 2006)

Coils my condolences

From what you said sounds like you have a lead and with the media involved you may have a happy ending. All the best, I hope they get the @#$%@#


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## junglepython2 (Oct 5, 2006)

Maybe put the pics on here as well, that way you will have plenty of people to keep an eye out, thats if their dumb enough to try and move them so quick.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Sounds like hired thugs not snake people. I wish you all the best coils and I'm sure if any of APS people can help you they will. I hope that you all recover from your ordeal and that justice will be done.

Need a hand in any way PM me.


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## tan (Oct 5, 2006)

Sorry to hear! Some people have more balls then brains - what a disgrace. Hope your children are recovering from the ordeal.


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## TOMatoPASTE (Oct 5, 2006)

sorry to hear about the loss and in such a terrible fashion coils!

pics are a good idea, there are loadsof people on here who quite frankly, are going to be of more help than what police seem to be doing in the issue. as you said, you dont need to worry about any more being stolen. good luck on finding them

i really hope the next person to try something like this really gets the $#!+ kicked out of him/her. i mean really beaten! to the point that there is widespread media coverage and a big fancy court case, maybe that might raise some public awareness.

im so ****ed off about the situation of things that god help anyone who tries to do something to me. who knows, i might be the one to spark that court case. the whole thing is just F*&^%$!!!


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## TOMatoPASTE (Oct 5, 2006)

p.s.

anyone up for posting a thread with all the best snakes on the site and giving them the address of a police station or prison. the people involved in these crimes are obviously thick enough to try it anyway !!!


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Glimmerman said:


> Something is seriously wrong with this ****** up world. (Sorry, I'm a bit irrate today. My wifes friend died on Tuesday night after buying a bunch of &*^%ers a pie on the weekend and then got bashed over it and put in a coma.)



R.I.P. Peter Dando. Just saw the footage on the news. Whats wrong with people?:|


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## shelby (Oct 5, 2006)

No possesion is worth your familys life or even your own. I feel for you I realy do. It is sad that it has stopped you from doing what you love, but I fully understand why. I hope they catch the b*****d, and they throw the book at him, and beat the s**t out of him with it.


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## Zeus_the_beardie (Oct 5, 2006)

im so so so so so angry not just the fact that people are stealing (robbery) which happens every single day but taking an animal from people at gunpoint is just friken rideculous

:angy


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## Coils (Oct 5, 2006)

*Stolen GTPs*

Here are photos of some of the GTPs stolen. One was still yellow as it was slow to feed on its own and one is an adult.


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## Retic (Oct 5, 2006)

I saw the news story on it a few minutes ago. Apparently they are much in demand in the States and can fetch $100,000 each over there. Never let facts get in the way of a good story.
They also mentioned a possible link to local bikie gangs.
I can't blame anyone for not wanting to be a part of the crap that goes on amongst keepers in this country.


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## tempest (Oct 5, 2006)

Coils, I too am extremely sorry firstly for what the [email protected]@hole put your family through, which would have been traumatic and devastating enough on it's own..... but to loose your collection which you obviously had invested a great deal of time and money into, there really are no words... just know that you have a lot of support from a lot of people out here on this forum, and I'm sure others too, and we will help you in anyway we can should that be remotely possible. My thoughts are with you and your family...


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*channel 10*

on the news now channel 10. A hell of a lot of info given and a really good, long news story, not the short crappy one I expected.

They mentioned that a bikie gang might be involved. How does the old story go? Don't mess with the bikies!

oooooh. The new one is - DON"T MESS WITH OUR HERPS.


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## da_donkey (Oct 5, 2006)

The unfortuanate thing is that anybody who has a large amount of Any valued comodity will allways be a target for thieves, be it cash, drugs, jewlery, art, automobiles and in this case pythons.

If anyone found out that you had $150,000 cash sitting in a glass enclosure, how long do you think it would be before some fcukknuckle lowlife came looking with a gun.

The key to keeping anything valuble is Silence and it is almost immposibe to keep things a total secret.

I hope all these thieve scumbags get whats coming to them.:evil:

Donkeyboy


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## Coils (Oct 5, 2006)

*More photos of stolen GTPs*

Here are some more.


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## bredli84 (Oct 5, 2006)

the real tragedy in my opinion (aside from the suffering of coils and his family) is that now people who are passionate about their herps and love nothing more than showing them off and educating the uninitiated, will now be too cautious to invite others to see and experience their collections. this will possibly result in a worse educated public and a lot of nervous keepers who used to be happy and relatively care free. 
to someone thats new to this world l am left with a bad taste in my mouth. 
hope the scum FRY!!!


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Have a beer*



bredli84 said:


> the real tragedy in my opinion (aside from the suffering of coils and his family) is that now people who are passionate about their herps and love nothing more than showing them off and educating the uninitiated, will now be too cautious to invite others to see and experience their collections. this will possibly result in a worse educated public and a lot of nervous keepers who used to be happy and relatively care free.
> to someone thats new to this world l am left with a bad taste in my mouth.
> hope the scum FRY!!!



Don't worry about that bad taste. We'll meet up one day and have a beer. VIC people VHS meeting tomorrow night - I'll be there with the red Aussiepythons.com hat on with 2 kids hanging off me.

Same at the Melbourne Zoo on Saturday.


We can't let this beat us everyone. We have to figure out ways that we can work with the relevant authorities to try and combat breaches or leaks of our details. Maybe we need to only have the license number written down instead of the address etc.


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## krusty (Oct 5, 2006)

O MY GOD.things are geting real bad.


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## Coils (Oct 5, 2006)

*Stolen GTPs*

Thank you Peter and I am glad I was able to get some of my gtps out there before this happened. Unfortunately a the few sales we made went into unrelated juveniles which also got stolen. All I say is keep everything to yourself and take every precaution you can as this will not stop I am sure.

If anybody heres anything no matter how insignificant they think it is please let us know.


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## dragons75 (Oct 5, 2006)

what a bunch of aholes


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## Retic (Oct 5, 2006)

I hope you get all or at least some of your animals back. It just makes me so disillusioned.


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## chilli (Oct 5, 2006)

sorry to hear,
coils, did you breed these yourself? DNA might be needed to obtain a conviction ( and to get them back )


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Dna*

I think Pete has already offered the DNA point of view.


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## NoOne (Oct 5, 2006)

dugadugabowbow said:


> Apparently now APS asks for your pretty specific location. I never have nor ever will answer anything other than general area of where I live in a huge kilometer radius. Nor do I give out my home phone number to anyone, only close family has it, I just like when the phone rings that I don't have to worry about who it is because I know it's usually someone I want to talk to.
> 
> Yep, silent number and PO Box is the way to go. So many people don't realize just how anyone can find out your name and jsut look it up on whitepages.com and find out where you live. I've had a silent number for the past 10 years now.
> 
> Tsaida, the general public really does think that reptiles are worth way more than what they are. LIke I mentioned before, locals around here reckon the wild diamonds are worth thousands. Have to say I was surprised on how cheap snakes were when I first got into the hobby.



That was posted by my partnet Nome lol


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## gillsy (Oct 5, 2006)

They are absolutely beautiful.

I never realised how beautiful they are, 

I'm sorry to hear, its on the front page of www.smh.com.au


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## gillsy (Oct 5, 2006)

Can I ask, why are they so expensive.

I'm sorry if this is inappropriate.

Is it colouration, rarity(?) or breeding ease.


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## bredli84 (Oct 5, 2006)

yes, yes and yes i believe.


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

Coils said:


> Thank you Peter and I am glad I was able to get some of my gtps out there before this happened. Unfortunately a the few sales we made went into unrelated juveniles which also got stolen. All I say is keep everything to yourself and take every precaution you can as this will not stop I am sure.
> 
> If anybody heres anything no matter how insignificant they think it is please let us know.



coils I can see your issue there but I would imagine that someone will try to report these as captive bred from their own stock. There can't be too many people doing that this year (actually, would have been last year) so with a bit of committment the authorities could do some dna comparisons of parents to babies and see if they really were bred.

I would be careful about buying a snake if I thought that one day I could expect dna samples to be done and if they didn't match the parents then my snake would be confiscated as either stolen goods or a smuggled exotic.


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## fishead (Oct 5, 2006)

Just like to add my condolences Coiled. Wouldn't you love to get hold of the dog!
I know the following might not prove effective against a drug head with a gun and I hope I'm not out of line right now but if anyone would like tradesman built burgle proof locking enclosures eg powder coated 2mm steel or 3mm aluminium body (vented of course) and door frame enclosing 10mm toughened glass front, provision to mount to existing structure etc, they can pm me for a quote. 
Bye, Steve.


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## Reptile City (Oct 5, 2006)

Coils (Darren Boswell) wrote I can also tell you that my permit number which was posted as per SA law on the herp trader with my ad for 2 yearlings was the link that confirmed to the theif that I had the animals. The ad went up on the 3/10. 

I thought you were on a 12 month self imposed quarantine??????????????
I feel very sorry for your wife & kids though!

KAMA KAMA KAMA


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## wicked reptiles (Oct 5, 2006)

dont mean to sound dumb but what is a GTP


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## freddy (Oct 5, 2006)

green tree python worth anywhere from $5000 up


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Green Tree Python. Just like BHP - Black Headed Python. GTS - Green Tree SNake.

Not a dumb question if you did'nt know it. Pays to ask.


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## Serpant_Lady (Oct 5, 2006)

Repulsive foul beings walk this earth. The only way to get through it IMO is to believe in karma....


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

Is karma the same as revenge?


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## gillsy (Oct 5, 2006)

Karma = what goes around, comes around.
You only get back what you give.

That sorta thing


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

I meant to type is'nt karma the same as revenge. hence the wink


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

OK folks, this is going off track. The only benefit to be gained here is to warn people that those animals MAY have been in quarantine and if they buy them then they MAY be in big trouble and not from the law. It migh tend up costing you a lot more than the purchase price of the snake. Especially if you own others!!


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## bredli84 (Oct 5, 2006)

can anyone else say karma? though it would be a shame if other animals suffered due to possibly diseased animals being introduced into collections


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Do say*



Rastass said:


> OK folks, this is going off track. The only benefit to be gained here is to warn people that those animals MAY have been in quarantine and if they buy them then they MAY be in big trouble and not from the law. It migh tend up costing you a lot more than the purchase price of the snake. Especially if you own others!!



How is it going off track?


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## orsm (Oct 5, 2006)

Theft happens all the time, why should the news of someone getting their snakes stolen at gunpoint deserve any more attention than other thefts? Hmm...


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

I cant see why this should be a post hosing Darren for selling his snakes. I cant believe that this happend to him because of Karma and I personally dont think that he needs to here from us that that is the reason that it happened. Isn't he going through enough at the moment?

If, however, there is in inkling of OPMV in the collection then lets let everyone know that the stolen GTP's may be inefected. Who'll buy them then???


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## Rastass (Oct 5, 2006)

orsm said:


> Theft happens all the time, why should the news of someone getting their snakes stolen at gunpoint deserve any more attention than other thefts? Hmm...



Orsm (love teh avator btw), personally I would muich rather soemone steal my herps than some of my other things (as lang as they wer looked after). Te difference here is the use of a pistol. This is an armed robbery of herps. That doesn't happen too often. sure, armed robberies do, but this is a herp site, so we only discuss herp robberies if you know what I mean.


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## pythoness (Oct 5, 2006)

Also the person whas known to a few, and his wife and kids were tied up and held at gunpoint,,,, now THAT doesn't happen every day, at least not in australia, and not for reps :O


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Are you serious*



orsm said:


> Theft happens all the time, why should the news of someone getting their snakes stolen at gunpoint deserve any more attention than other thefts? Hmm...



Anything that happens at the point of a gun deserves all the attention it deserves. Have you ever had a gun pointed at your person? I doubt it.

News stories are featured every day of our lives where someone has been held up and cash or goods taken. The fact that this case involves herps being taken is different and yes the news will grab at it. And why not.

P.S. Byt the way it's not theft. Theft is when you go into a shop or other premises and remove property unlawfully (that does not belong to you and for which payment has not been made.

This is aggravated robbery. The term will vary in every state. It traumatises those who are involved.

Not sure if you have your flame suit on but I'd get it ready.


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## shamous1 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Now are you serious*



Rastass said:


> Orsm (love teh avator btw), personally I would muich rather soemone steal my herps than some of my other things .




Your other personal property can be insured. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see G.I.O., RACV, AAMI etc etc covering our herps if they are stolen.


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## Linus (Oct 6, 2006)

not to mention the sentimental value shamous. 

Orsm perhaps you have never had a bpet for long enought o become emotionally attached to it. Snakes may not have much of a perosnality but I love mine like a member of the family.

I think you are being a little callous under the circumstances.


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## slim6y (Oct 6, 2006)

Kiwicam said:


> I actually think Papua New Guinea is *Australias*P ) closest neighbour - but I am just being pedantic
> 
> Of course ppl would have them, but I would say it certainly aint easy getting it there. MAF are pretty good, which is why NZ still doesn't have snakes and poisonous spiders (bar the Katipo) in numbers in the wild.



Sorry cutting in on this smugglers reign... But I don't know Kiwi dude.. I don't reckon MAF are that good... Customs have the most power in NZ followed by IRD then maybe Police... But I think properganda leads you to believe that MAF is good... Well, just the other day my daughter pulled plant material out of her poket which she inadvertantly smuggled out of NZ into Aussie. Ok, not her fault... But... Customs here and Customs there (NZ) would be much of a muchness. 

My guess is for every one that gets caught there would be 18.3 that get through!

Hence, I agree, NZ would be a good place to smuggle too for snakes. However, climate, food sources and the unusual ability for someone to say something to someone else and not long the entire country knows, would mean that NZ is a difficult place to keep such animals. 

On the other hand smuggling out of NZ - such as Tuatara, Kiwi and other exotic birds would be suprisingly easy when you go about in the right channels. 

All I can say is there's a market and that's what needs to be stopped... If there's no market, there's no trade for smugglers and thieves alike. 

I would say that the bigger market would be the Asian market - they probably want the GTP bones to make an aphrodisiac for some impotent wee man in Beijing.

This is my rant... over and out!


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## Kiwicam (Oct 6, 2006)

Jesus what the hell is with all this kiwi bashing...and why the hell do people automatically assume kiwis want snakes over there..sheesh!

Why would NZ be a good place to smuggle too? Most ppl don't even think about owning snakes.......because we don't have any! Where is proof of this 'market'?
And yes the climate etc. is no good for them so no worries they would die in the wild anyway...a hot summers day in AKL is 28 deg.

MAF DO do a good job, which is why NZ is one of the most bio-secure countries there is...I kinda know as I lived there for 30 years.....do you see cane toads and other destructive exotic crap running around in NZ...I don't think so.

For the record..MAF had the MOST power over anything not human comming into the country I can assure you, after years working at the AKL Intl Airpoprt.

Also nothing personal but I don't think some pocket lint really equates to mass exotic animal smuggling..but each to their own I guess.

Like I initially said...if someone want sit bad enough then they will make it happen, but just have a good think about what is actually involved and the specific implications.

My rant over...Kiwicam out.


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## slim6y (Oct 6, 2006)

Kiwi... I am too but of the same blood, doing 32 years in Aotearoa... 

2000 - Snakeskin discovered in Auckland Central.... hmmmm.. 2 months before someone owned up that it was infact part of a fancy dress costume...

Ants... ants and more ants... from argentina...

Spiders in supermarkets selling grapes.. 

Ahhh... the black widow.... I saw it with my own two eyes in Lincoln!

A scorpian stung a british tourist at Akld International....

Biosecure??? hehe... Im not dissing it I promise Kiwi.. I love my homeland as much as any other... I'm just saying it's not infallible... It's a disaster waiting to happen... Sorry dude... i really aren't cutting in on what a sterling job you would have done for MAF... And over non-human Customs and MAF did the greatest job... but it's not perfect...

Ahhh... recall the apple stealing incident the chinese delegates were walking out of NZ with apple cuttings... hehe.. they got nabbed...

Education... it's all about education.. And hopefully we can give it to them...

Sorry Kiwi.. wasn't trying to upset you (forgive???)

Talk later... over a nice cool Macs... ahhh.. Nelson, home of the greatest...


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## shamous1 (Oct 6, 2006)

My rant on. (you got my PM I hope) Cam you can't tell me that there would not be, in any way, shape or form any privately held collections in NZ. Of course there would be.

my rant off


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## Rastass (Oct 6, 2006)

Shamous, yes you are right, my cars and other items of household goods are insurable. However, there are specific items like jewellery and artwork that are not covered and are worth far more than MY herps. You can insure these items, just as you can insure your herps if you are willing to pay a hefty premium (like 10% plus of the value of each item). I have had most of these items for more than 10 years so I am in front and but would still certainly not want them stolen. There are also many sentimental items that just could never be replaced.

I was really trying to point out that if someone turned up at my house with a pistol and all they wanted was my snakes they could help themselves to them. And then I would probably also follow Darren down the path of leaving the hobby. But I dont have 9 GTP's at my house.


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## Kiwicam (Oct 6, 2006)

slim6y said:


> Education... it's all about education.. And hopefully we can give it to them...
> 
> Sorry Kiwi.. wasn't trying to upset you (forgive???)
> 
> Talk later... over a nice cool Macs... ahhh.. Nelson, home of the greatest...


 
*Slim6y* - Make it a Speights and it's all good. Don't worry i didn't work for MAF - AirNZ, but NZ is holding up pretty well to exotic crap taking hold. Yea you get the odd incident...but hey i think it is going pretty well, ppl can agree to disagree :lol: .

*Shamous1* - rgr, received. And I have said from the start that if ppl want it bad enuf then it will happen, so yea some pple will have private collections...doesn't mean that MAF, customs, police et.c won't be looking for them!!!!


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## slim6y (Oct 6, 2006)

Macs is brewed in Nelson.. Speights.. Dunedin beer brewed in.. hehe... I like the agree to disagree thing... Well... imagine what a GTP could do in NZ, in the Waitakere ranges.... would desimate the rat population.. and the flightless birds...


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## shamous1 (Oct 6, 2006)

*Change insurance cover*



Rastass said:


> Shamous, yes you are right, my cars and other items of household goods are insurable. However, there are specific items like jewellery and artwork that are not covered and are worth far more than MY herps. You can insure these items, just as you can insure your herps if you are willing to pay a hefty premium (like 10% plus of the value of each item). I have had most of these items for more than 10 years so I am in front and but would still certainly not want them stolen. There are also many sentimental items that just could never be replaced.
> 
> I was really trying to point out that if someone turned up at my house with a pistol and all they wanted was my snakes they could help themselves to them. And then I would probably also follow Darren down the path of leaving the hobby. But I dont have 9 GTP's at my house.



I'd be changing insurance cover as our bling bling is all covered and so are our pictures, figurines etc etc. 

When you find an insurance company that has the experience to deal with reptiles and to value them etc etc let me know. Cos there is none around that I know of.

I might start up my own insurance company for herps. :shock:


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## Kiwicam (Oct 6, 2006)

slim6y said:


> Macs is brewed in Nelson.. Speights.. Dunedin beer brewed in.. hehe... I like the agree to disagree thing... Well... imagine what a GTP could do in NZ, in the Waitakere ranges.... would desimate the rat population.. and the flightless birds...


 
Ooooh it's on now..you got something to say about Speights...huh..huh..do ya :twisted: ...Lol. There is no other beer!! (check my forum label) Although Macs certainly is nice, Speight treats me well after 2 dozen or so, and I can still buy it over here! Sweet.

GTP in the waitaks - it wouldn't last a week I would say from what I have read! 
There is an ocean of difference between 'Tropical Forest Region' and 'Waitakere Ranges', I wish there wasn't for all the times we were tramping through them! See may GTP's in Tasmania by the way?
But hey this isn't an 'Aussie Snakes in NZ' thread


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## Rastass (Oct 6, 2006)

Shamous, ring your insurer and thell them you have a $25,000 piece of artwork and ask if it is covered. I work very closely with insurance brokers and can guarantee you that items like that are not covered in general policies. They are restricted to values of a couple of thousand per item. As for herps. A post was made here a few months ago asking for expressions of interest in going to Lloyds to get insurance. Only two people replied. And yes, it is available but you need to be insuring at least $10k worth of herps and the premium will be over $1,000 for a $10k collection. Did you PM the person who wroite that thread? I dont know much about airlines mate but I do know insurance


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## shamous1 (Oct 6, 2006)

*Stop*



Kiwicam said:


> Ooooh it's on now..you got something to say about Speights...huh..huh..do ya :twisted: ...Lol. There is no other beer!! (check my forum label) Although Macs certainly is nice, Speight treats me well after 2 dozen or so, and I can still buy it over here! Sweet.
> 
> GTP in the waitaks - it wouldn't last a week I would say from what I have read!
> There is an ocean of difference between 'Tropical Forest Region' and 'Waitakere Ranges', I wish there wasn't for all the times we were tramping through them! See may GTP's in Tasmania by the way?
> But hey this isn't an 'Aussie Snakes in NZ' thread



Can you guys stop talking about beer please. It's just correct at this time of the morning.:evil: 

especially when I am stuck in the house and have none.


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## Coils (Oct 6, 2006)

*Stolen GTPs*



ReptileCity said:


> Coils (Darren Boswell) wrote I can also tell you that my permit number which was posted as per SA law on the herp trader with my ad for 2 yearlings was the link that confirmed to the theif that I had the animals. The ad went up on the 3/10.
> 
> I thought you were on a 12 month self imposed quarantine??????????????
> I feel very sorry for your wife & kids though!
> ...



And thought I explained to you that my GTPs were never in any question when it came to that issue. You are a class act Lapins theres no doubt about it. How can you make statements like this knowing what we had been through. Ask any of the people on here who have my babies what they think of them. Youre making me feel much better about no longer being a part of this ridiculous scene.
How do I now cancel my subscription to this site? Can anyone let me know please? I only wanted t alert other keepers and get the information about what happened out there to the people who matter but I will not take this.

To the decent people on this list, thank you for your comments and thoughts, to the rest of you, I hope this never happens to you.

Darren.


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## shamous1 (Oct 6, 2006)

Look after yourself Coils. I don't know you or the full details but no one deserves to be held up at gun point by a coward with too much testosterone.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Oct 6, 2006)

i agree shamous1.
it is no fun looking at a gun pointed at you.good luck in the future darren


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## Retic (Oct 6, 2006)

I agree Darren , it was a low comment to make. All the best for the future.


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## olivehydra (Oct 6, 2006)

Kiwicam said:


> MAF DO do a good job, which is why NZ is one of the most bio-secure countries there is...I kinda know as I lived there for 30 years.....do you see cane toads and other destructive exotic crap running around in NZ...I don't think so.
> 
> .



I was always lead to believe that NZ had no native mammals whatsoever (except for a small species of bat). Last time I was there, the place was crawling with warm blooded beasties, so to say it is "bio-secure" is hardly a "choice" term??

Sorry to add to the off-topic debate, and I hope Darren and his family recover from such a horrible event.


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## greyfox (Oct 6, 2006)

*mother ********

those scumbags should be excuted at gunpoint.


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## richardwells (Oct 7, 2006)

I once had 30 funnel web spiders stolen...I had just finished collecting them for a venom researcher and had them loose in damp leaf litter and moss in the panniers of my motor bike...neither the spiders or the bike were ever recovered...and the police were absolutely no help at all...

Richard Wells


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## shamous1 (Oct 7, 2006)

*??????*



greyfox said:


> those scumbags should be excuted at gunpoint.



Why tell your mother that those scumbags should shot at gunpoint?


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## herptrader (Oct 7, 2006)

Darren,

You might be interested to know that there was an email from the DSE read out at last nights VHS meeting with specific details on what was stolen and what to do if you thought you were being offered any of the animals. The committee of the VHS added that if anybody wanted to anonymously provide information that they could do so through them and thy would pass it on.

I really hope that these guys do get caught. There is no room in this hobby for people of that ilk!


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## shamous1 (Oct 7, 2006)

herptrader said:


> Darren,
> 
> You might be interested to know that there was an email from the DSE read out at last nights VHS meeting with specific details on what was stolen and what to do if you thought you were being offered any of the animals. The committee of the VHS added that if anybody wanted to anonymously provide information that they could do so through them and thy would pass it on.
> 
> I really hope that these guys do get caught. There is no room in this hobby for people of that ilk!



It was really good the way the VHS team informed everyone last night. They stressed the importance of either contacting DSE in VIC or even the VHS directly.


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## orsm (Oct 7, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> Anything that happens at the point of a gun deserves all the attention it deserves. Have you ever had a gun pointed at your person? I doubt it.
> 
> Not sure if you have your flame suit on but I'd get it ready.



No, I have never had a gun pointed at myself or my family. If I was in that position however, I would give up these snakes in a heartbeat as 9 GTPs ($45k++) is nothing compared to life itself. It doesn't mean however that I don't feel sympathy for Coil's family - who must feel very traumatised by this event.



Linus said:


> Orsm perhaps you have never had a bpet for long enought o become emotionally attached to it.
> I think you are being a little callous under the circumstances.



Sorry if I sounded a little callous to some people. I certainly didn't intend to downplay the trauma that Coil's family had experienced. If anything, I wish Coil & his family a speedy mental/emotional recovery from this event.

What I was trying to highlight was of the 16,000+ reported armed robberies last year (some ending in violent deaths), only a handful _eye-catching_ ones gets reported to the news. Again, I am not trying to take away any condolences or sympathies for Coil's family but it just seems a bit unfair (to me) that "snake thefts" (or aggravated robbery as Shamous correctly pointed out) would hit the news stand and spread out like wildfire.  In this instance, noone was hurt (physically) so in my glass-half-full view, this news was insignificant.

Sorry if this view offends anyone. Hope the perpetrators get caught.

PS. I am attached to my giant gourami - which I have had for more than 8 years. 
PPS. Rats, I like my avatar too. :lol:


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## pythoness (Oct 7, 2006)

Coils, i hope for all the best for your family in the future. My deepest sympathies go to your wife and kids, i (for one) know what it's like to have a gun pointed in your face and it's something you never get over. your poor kids will be traumatised for years, and that is the real crime here. Loosing your snakes is one thing, but to cause your kids anguish and terror, that is the most deplorable thing ever. You will be in my prayers, and even more than i wish for the return of your snakes, i wish for a speedy recovery from the terror for your poor kids..
To thoes who would state that this was coils karma, you should be ashamed of yourselves, does anybody's karma deserve having your kids held at gunpoint? i think not.!!!
All the best Coils. No one deserves this and i hope the catch the [email protected]!!!!!


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## shamous1 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Cost*



orsm said:


> No, I have never had a gun pointed at myself or my family. If I was in that position however, I would give up these snakes in a heartbeat as 9 GTPs ($45k++) is nothing compared to life itself. It doesn't mean however that I don't feel sympathy for Coil's family - who must feel very traumatised by this event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I could buy a GTP for $5,000 I'd buy 10. You are looking at more like $10,000 each


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## shamous1 (Oct 7, 2006)

*Unsure about you.*

No offense but on one hand you are kind of apologizing if you offended people then on the other hand you say that one one hurt physically and that this news was insignificant.

How can you justify those comments? No one was hurt physically. Do you think what happened to them is a walk in the park, mental scars can last a lifetime. The reason why I guess that the media took it on board as they did is due to the fact that it is uncommon (well in the eyes of the general public).

The news media does not print up a big song and dance story about someone's aunt having cancer or Joe Smith down the street having a car carsh, but if Peter Brock (R.I.P. Brocky) has an accident and dies or Sam Newman has his house broken into it's big news. 

It is things that sell news stories that get the publicity and I believe that if this can get the story out there in some way and make things hard for the people who are now attempting to offload these animals then it is, no has to be a good thing.

Just like the little kid that had his Blue tongue stolen from Port Melbourne. It sells.

Any publicity that people can get when it comes to getting their stolen herps back is fine by me.

Sorry about the rant but I for one am glad that these thefts got the publicity that they deserve.


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## Rastass (Oct 7, 2006)

shamous1 said:


> If I could buy a GTP for $5,000 I'd buy 10. You are looking at more like $10,000 each




Done. I should have a few early next year mate and you are welcome to as many as you want at $5k each. I reckon that will be the standard price anyway.


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## shamous1 (Oct 7, 2006)

I think, personally, that the price you are talking about will be at least 2 years away. IMO


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## herptrader (Oct 7, 2006)

orsm said:


> No, I have never had a gun pointed at myself or my family. If I was in that position however, I would give up these snakes in a heartbeat as 9 GTPs ($45k++) is nothing compared to life itself. It doesn't mean however that I don't feel sympathy for Coil's family - who must feel very traumatised by this event.



With a background in psychology and very close experience with those that have suffered post traumatic stress associated with armed robery I can tell you that an event is likely to screw you up for years. Different people deal with it in different waysbut the combination of a gun in your face and having it happen in your own home is not good.

Think of this this way. When you recognise that you have done some thing really stupid you tend to feel really embarrased, those that watched you do what ever it was get a laugh but do not have the emotional response. In the case of armed robbery the perpetrators feel bugger all but the victims suffer greatly. This is a severe injustice.

I really feel for the victims in this particular instance.


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## pythoness (Oct 7, 2006)

herptrader said:


> With a background in psychology and very close experience with those that have suffered post traumatic stress associated with armed robery I can tell you that an event is likely to screw you up for years. Different people deal with it in different waysbut the combination of a gun in your face and having it happen in your own home is not good.
> 
> Think of this this way. When you recognise that you have done some thing really stupid you tend to feel really embarrased, those that watched you do what ever it was get a laugh but do not have the emotional response. In the case of armed robbery the perpetrators feel bugger all but the victims suffer greatly. This is a severe injustice.
> 
> I really feel for the victims in this particular instance.


 



For the very first time we agree on something HT


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## Isis (Oct 7, 2006)

Coils,
My heart goes out to you and your family. I have been on the wrong end of a gun during a home invasion and know first hand how devastating that can be for a very long long time. I hope that you and your family can get through this and that it will only bring you all closer. I am also so sorry to hear about the snakes you have lost to this lowlife. A double blow to you all. They are stunning. 
Keep strong and dont let the *******s get you down.


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## snakeeyes (Oct 7, 2006)

very sorry for what has happened to you and your family

on another note, i for one had a gun shoved in my face when i was 8 months pregnant with my first child which was almost 13 yrs ago and to this day i still have nightmares about it, so saying that no one was hurt is an understatement


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## Mayo (Oct 7, 2006)

Having a gun in your face stays with you for life, for those that have had it happen you can only imagine


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