# snake ID Darwin



## TheReptileben (Apr 10, 2013)

my friend sent me this what could it be sorry for bad photos.


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## Bushman (Apr 10, 2013)

Where was it found?
The long head suggests a tree snake i.e _Dendrelaphis_ sp.
Unfortunately, the photo is not good enough for a positive ID.


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## TheReptileben (Apr 10, 2013)

palmerston NT


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 10, 2013)

Bushman said:


> Where was it found?
> The long head suggests a tree snake i.e _Dendrelaphis_ sp.
> The photo is not good enough for a positive ID



The title suggests Darwin.


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## Bushman (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks for the locality. Is that a coca-cola can underneath the tub. If so, then it must be tiny. It looks like a neonate. Did your mate mention how big it was?


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## GeckPhotographer (Apr 10, 2013)

Headshape doesn't look like a tree snake to me, more like a neonate Liasis python. Clearer pictures would help and don't touch it just because I cried 'python' it could still be a venomous sp.


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## TheReptileben (Apr 10, 2013)

nah its a towel


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## TheReptileben (Apr 10, 2013)

aparently it is pure black no patern at all


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## Bushman (Apr 10, 2013)

OK then, but still small it seems and patternless black. 
I considered a neonate Olive Python due to the long head of that species as well.
However, the slender whip-like tail of this specimen, suggested _Dendrelaphis punctulatus_ to me.
It's really just an educated guess though, for want of a better photo.


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## snakebag (Apr 10, 2013)

Maybe a juvenile Demansia Papuensis???


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## Bushman (Apr 10, 2013)

How did it move/handle? Was it fast and thrashy or relatively slow and wrappy like a python?

Good guess Snakebag. The whip-like tail could easily belong to a Demansia. It could be a _Demansia papuensis_ (Greater Black Whipsnake).

So we have three contenders. Can anyone think of any more?
Take your pic mate. I doubt that anyone would put money on this.


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## i_am_snake (Apr 10, 2013)

Its likely a slate grey neonate, i found 4 last week around my work. Most were dying or dead unfortunately.

Dan


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## Barrett (Apr 11, 2013)

The head shape looks too long to be a Demansia species. My (uneducated) guess would be a python neonate because it doesn't have the 'bulge' you often see with Dendrelaphis species eyes, though that could just be due to the quality and angle of the photo.


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## TheReptileben (Apr 11, 2013)

the lucky bugger escaped thankfully, I just found out that she was keeping it till tomorrow because she was to scared to go into the shed and get her machete at night, good thing it excaped


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## Paintbrushturkey (Apr 11, 2013)

TheReptileben said:


> the lucky bugger escaped thankfully, I just found out that she was keeping it till tomorrow because she was to scared to go into the shed and get her machete at night, good thing it excaped


you may want to tell her that most snakebites are a result of people trying to kill snakes, or otherwise mess with them....


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## Fuscus (Apr 11, 2013)

Paintbrushturkey said:


> you may want to tell her that most snakebites are a result of people trying to kill snakes, or otherwise mess with them....


While I tell this to people all the time, it is almost certainly a waste of time.


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## saratoga (Apr 11, 2013)

My guess would be a skinny juvenile Water Python, but that is just a guess; rally need a better image


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## -Peter (Apr 11, 2013)

GeckPhotographer said:


> Headshape doesn't look like a tree snake to me, more like a neonate Liasis python. Clearer pictures would help and don't touch it just because I cried 'python' it could still be a venomous sp.



Liasis mackloti(fuscus) by th e looks but as you rightly say could be a ven.


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 11, 2013)

The obvious issues are the quality of the photo and the fact that is likely a neonate, which can display features to the adult. Hence I have seven possible contenders… _Demansia papuensis_; _Demansia vestigiata_; _Liasis mackloti_; _Liasis olivaceus_; _Stegonotus cullculatus_; _Cryptophis pallidceps_; _Dendrelaphis punctulatus__.
_ 
The head shields appear to extend as far behind the eyes as they do in front and the discernable scales on the dorsal surface would indicate no more than maybe 20 mid-body scales. On that basis I would rule out the pythons.

The head is long in comparison to its width. Than rules out _C. pallidiceps_ which has a broader head in comparison to its length.

We are told it was black, so that rules out _D. punctulatus_.

_D. papuensis_ is quite robust for a whip snake and therefore an unlikely contender. The head shape is what really rules out both whips, as their heads are barely wider than the neck and taper quickly back in where as the significantly wider head and gentle taper back to the neck is much more a characteristic of _S. cullcullatus_.

I’d reckon you are looking at a neonate Slaty Grey.

*I_am_snake* how similiar were the neonates you saw, to the one in the photo, including the skinny last third of its length?

Blue


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## i_am_snake (Apr 11, 2013)

well heres a pic of one of the specimens (i preserved it!) the final third of the body is fairly slim.


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## saratoga (Apr 11, 2013)

i_am_snake said:


> (i preserved it!)



Why kill it???

Front of the head now looks more blunt and Slatey-grey like from this image


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## i_am_snake (Apr 11, 2013)

i didn't, a few were found already dead and others we're dying. five were found only one was healthy and it was released at a safer location. i work at a uni and had some stuff on hand to preserve them so i did.

i have some queries as to why they were dying, and i have a few more pics of the specimens. but i'll make a new thread shortly.


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## GeckPhotographer (Apr 11, 2013)

> i didn't, a few were found already dead and others we're dying. five were found only one was healthy and it was released at a safer location. i work at a uni and had some stuff on hand to preserve them so i did.
> 
> i have some queries as to why they were dying, and i have a few more pics of the specimens. but i'll make a new thread shortly.



Be careful about the legalities of preserving animals, I'm not trying to discourage it, but be careful that authorities do monitor these sites and unless you have a license allowing you to do so I'd encourage not to preserve specimens, or at least not talk about it.


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## i_am_snake (Apr 11, 2013)

Cheers for the heads up Geck', i should have realised its illegal in some way, (like owning a crocskull without permits ect.) it was a spur of the moment type thing. i'll see to it they're disposed of correctly. 

Dan


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 12, 2013)

The head shape threw me also. So I went hunting and found a pic of a yearling Slaty Grey in a ‘for sale ad’…





While I am not fully comfortable with the outcome, is does seem the most likely species given the available information.

Blue


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 12, 2013)

*I_am_snake*, I am not familiar with the Territory's specific laws in this regard. You can be assured is that each state or territory will have legislation governing it, as *Geckphotographer* pointed out. To take an example, freeze dried Thorny Devils would make a very popular momento of a trip to the NT. To say I found it dead might wash with one individual but if someone was dealing in multiples of 10...

So there is good reason for prohibitive legislation. However, I warrant that every country primary school and high school will have a bottled collection of roadkills and similarly collected dead specimens along with skulls and bones. The same is likely to be true of any local naturalists clubs. Despite the potential illegalities, to the best of my knowledge no educational institution or environmental oriented group have ever been prosecuted in any state or territory for such offences. The authorities do seen to acknowledge that that bottled specimens, irrespective of their condition, are not particularly saleable items and in the context of providing an educational resource they are happy to turn a blind eye.

While that is my perception of how the system tends to operate it remains your responsibility Dan to do the homework needed to bring you up to scratch on the local legislation and how it is implemented. I would suggest you make enquiries as to want is a required to legalise collection and preservation of specimens under your authorities. That will put it beyond doubt.

Blue


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## Stuart (Apr 14, 2013)

If it helps, as per the NT wildlife act, you need the appropriate permit to hold any protected wildlife. They define "protective" as any animal living or deceased or part of an animal. 

Being that you work at the uni and these could be use for training or identification purposes, have a chat to the ladies at NRETAS and see if they can help.


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