# Northern long neck turtle queries



## Stuart (Jan 5, 2013)

Today I had a Northern Long Neck Turtle dropped off to me for some care while the owners are away. After they left I got a phone call from them saying that if I wanted him, I could have him as they discussed it and were going to release him in the wild if I didn't want him. Now, before I say yes, I have a couple of quick queries that I'm hoping the turtle keepers out there could help with. By common sense standards, the guy was not housed properly but never having owned a turtle, I can't say for certain. Pics will follow shortly on what he was housed in. 

First thing I'm checking is if they had him on license of course and then it should be easy to transfer him across to mine even considering we don't need a license for Northern Long necks in the NT. Secondly, I will need to confirm that he 100% Northern long neck (pics up shortly). If neither of these tow are confirmed then he will be surrendered to Land & Resource Management. But, could I get your opinions on the below too?



Are turtle shells meant to be "soft"? This guys shell can flex with the push of a finger.
This guy is obese, his fat bulges out of his shell in the turtle version of a muffin top. How often do they eat and what can be done to bring him back to a healthy weight?
Are outdoor garden ponds ok for housing a single turtle and what sort of land to water radio are we looking at?
Do they have a preferred substrate?
what are their UV requirements if they need to be housed inside?
What should they eat? He had rolled up mince balls about the size of a golf ball.
Are they "social" animals? As in, do they needs turtle friends?

Cheers in advance, I'm already looking up care sheets etc, but I'm hoping for the more personal opinions. Please bear in mind that I'm remote and do not have the luxury of popping into the nearest pet store to buy everything.

Cheers
SC


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## Gonemad (Jan 5, 2013)

If his shell is soft it could mean that he doesnt get enough uv? Trips out side in the sun could help this along with a uv lamp. Lots of owners don't replace there globe every twelve months as they lose their uv. I keep mine in a large tank with a really good filter with rocks for turtles to rest out of water with the uv lamp over the top of the rocks I also have so water plants and drift wood for them to explore. Where we got our turtles they had them outside in a pond with a sand pit where was a log out of the water for them to climb out of water with tin fence area.


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## Stuart (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks Gonemad. 

This guy never got the option to sit out of water


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## Gonemad (Jan 5, 2013)

It's a wonder he didn't drown. Poor little guy get him some sunshine for now. He sounds like he is fed to much so back that off a bit maybe add some gold fish or dam guppies crayfish to make him work a little bit for his supper.


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## oOLaurenOo (Jan 5, 2013)

Gold fish are bad for turtles , Sounds like this guy needs some serious tlc. Go to the Australian fresh water turtles forum. It's a fantastic site an has heaps of people with fantastic knowledge on turtles, tey will be able to help. There care sheets there are also amazing. Goodluck!


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## eipper (Jan 5, 2013)

Adam Elliott's turtle book covers rugosa among others. Pm Geckodan on here about it


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## Gonemad (Jan 5, 2013)

oOLaurenOo said:


> Gold fish are bad for turtles , Sounds like this guy needs some serious tlc. Go to the Australian fresh water turtles forum. It's a fantastic site an has heaps of people with fantastic knowledge on turtles, tey will be able to help. There care sheets there are also amazing. Goodluck!



Sorry guys I didn't know goldfish were bad. What about carp?


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## Stuart (Jan 5, 2013)

eipper said:


> Adam Elliott's turtle book covers rugosa among others. Pm Geckodan on here about it


Appreciate that Scott thanks. Doing that now.

And thanks for the additional advice guys


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## geckodan (Jan 5, 2013)

oOLaurenOo said:


> Gold fish are bad for turtles , Sounds like this guy needs some serious tlc. Go to the Australian fresh water turtles forum. It's a fantastic site an has heaps of people with fantastic knowledge on turtles, tey will be able to help. There care sheets there are also amazing. Goodluck!



On what basis are goldfish any different to other commonly offered feeder fish??


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## oOLaurenOo (Jan 5, 2013)

They are fatty as well as having very little in the way of vitamins and minerals in them but more importantly they contain high levels of thiamesse. This stops turtles absorbing the vitamin b1. This can cause a deficiency which can result in neurological problems and cardiovascular problems.


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## geckodan (Jan 5, 2013)

oOLaurenOo said:


> They are fatty as well as having very little in the way of vitamins and minerals in them but more importantly they contain high levels of thiamesse. This stops turtles absorbing the vitamin b1. This can cause a deficiency which can result in neurological problems and cardiovascular problems.


Unfortunately your information overlooks several important facts. Inactivated Thiaminases are present in ALL lower level benthic feeding fish (including most australian native fish commonly consumed by turtles). The activation of thiaminases is AN ARTIFICIAL SITUATION MOSTLY OCCURRING IN FROZEN THEN THAWED FISH. Activated thiaminases are not present in most live or fresh killed fish. So goldfish can only be an issue if fed as thawed frozen fish. Nutritionally there is also limited evidence that they differ from catfish or Rainbowfish in their fat or nutritional levels.
There is no justified evidence for not feeding standard feeder goldfish to turtles as opposed to rainbowfish/barbs/Gambusia etc.


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## oOLaurenOo (Jan 5, 2013)

Hmmmm. Interesting. I will do some more enquiring into it then. It is something I have always been taught but I am always open to more information.


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## geckodan (Jan 5, 2013)

oOLaurenOo said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting. I will do some more enquiring into it then. It is something I have always been taught but I am always open to more information.



The building blocks of the thiaminases are present in these fish types but perform no major role in normal fish metabolism. It is a purely accidental chemical reaction during the thawing process that converts these innocuous chemicals into the high levels of activated thiaminases that can cause issues when fed in this way. Just one of those wrong place, wrong time things. The reason we humans don't suffer from thiamine deficiency is that thiaminases are heat sensitive and are subsequently destroyed by cooking. The only way to get thiaminase issues from live fish is if a high risk species is fed as the exclusive diet.


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## oOLaurenOo (Jan 5, 2013)

'Thiaminase is not destroyed by freezing, and over time will break down whatever Vitamin B1 is present in the frozen fish. The longer the fish is stored, the less Vitamin B1 it will contain. Furthermore, any fish fed such frozen fish will be consuming the thiaminase, and that will destroy some of the Vitamin B1 it already has. Making things even worse, freezing and thawing both break down some of the Vitamin B1 content of food as well.

While freezing does not destroy thiaminase, heating it will. This is why cooked fish is not dangerous with regard to thiaminase for human or animal nutrition. From the perspective of a fishkeeper, the big drawback to cooking food is that heating destroys a lot of the useful nutrients as well. While omnivorous humans compensate for that by eating a varied diet containing both raw and cooked plant and animal foods, piscivorous fish have no such option." 

So it is not created by freezing, freezing breaks down the vitamin B leaving it behind therefore worsens the effects. I have also attached a video of a documentary on the effects of alligators eating carp. It is a long video, but very good if anyone is interested enough to watch it. (Hope thats ok) 
Nat Geo Predator CSI - Zombie Alligators - YouTube

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/thiaminase.html


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## Stuart (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the assistance so far and the PMs all. Here's some snaps of the fellow. The enclosure is yet to be cleaned so he is chilling in the bath tub at the moment, but you can see what I mean about him being fat. 

On a side note, can anyone identify him as 100% Northern Long Neck? Might try that part before contacting licensing on Monday so I don't waste anyone's time


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## notechistiger (Jan 5, 2013)

That's what he was living in? =/ Little fatty! hehe


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## Stuart (Jan 5, 2013)

notechistiger said:


> That's what he was living in? =/ Little fatty! hehe


Yup, and feel free to guess when the last time it was cleaned? Im not sure you are meant to wash algae off a turtle, but feel free to let me know. 

Poor fella


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## eipper (Jan 6, 2013)

That does not look like a fat turtle, I have feeling that might be fluid retention, which means a vet trip. It does look like Macrochelodina rugosa

cheers
Scott


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## Stuart (Jan 6, 2013)

eipper said:


> That does not look like a fat turtle, I have feeling that might be fluid retention, which means a vet trip. It does look like Macrochelodina rugosa
> 
> cheers
> Scott



I appreciate the feedback Scott and the ID, I have never considered having a turtle due to my interest in other reptiles but this presents new and interesting challenges. 

I'll do some research and learnings to see what I can do in the interim as unfortunately a vet trip is a 750km flight from here right at the moment until I can get a trip sorted but I really appreciate your keen eye helping out.


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## Shotta (Jan 6, 2013)

SniperCap said:


> Thanks for all the assistance so far and the PMs all. Here's some snaps of the fellow. The enclosure is yet to be cleaned so he is chilling in the bath tub at the moment, but you can see what I mean about him being fat.
> 
> On a side note, can anyone identify him as 100% Northern Long Neck? Might try that part before contacting licensing on Monday so I don't waste anyone's time
> View attachment 276204
> ...



he kinda looks like a broad shelled turtle but its most likely a northern


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