# Help with a stowaway



## MathewB (Feb 25, 2012)

When we got our new boat and my Dad found this little frog, I've ID him as a Southern Orange-Eyed Tree Frog. He definitely, 100000% did NOT come from our house/area. The only frogs here are tiny little things (sedge frog or something), the boat came from a Marina. But this is a new boat and people have been working on it over the last couple of days so there are no definite's as to where it came from.

I don't want to just release due to the possible effects on the local frogs and I'm not comfortable releasing him at said Marina, so are there any options? Other then keeping him (which I would like to do but he does belong in the wild). I wouldn't think any wildlife people would take him (suggested by mum) so set up Barry in this. I realise it's not adequate and tips would be helpful. I'm aware of the legalities of keeping him but not the penalty's so if someone would enlighten me on this I would appreciate it.







What do I feed him? What is the cheapest set-up available?

Cheers


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## snakes123 (Feb 25, 2012)

Im not a frog person, but i would google the type of places it lives in and try to bring that type of conditions and environment into the tub/enclosure you have it in. But as it came from the wild, i would give it the largest possible enclosure you can get.


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## JAS101 (Feb 25, 2012)

well either way your not allowed [ legal wise] to keep it , so find out where those frogs are found and put it there ?


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## AirCooled (Feb 25, 2012)

*Mr Google says;

Southern Orange-eyed Treefrog
Litoria chloris *
Identification:
The Southern Orange-eyed Treefrog is a medium-sized frog, growing to 68 mm. It is green with reddish-orange eyes. The limbs and sides are bright yellow and the hind edge of the thigh is purple*.
Distribution:
*Found from coastal mid-eastern Queensland to Sydney, New South Wales.
*Habitat:
*Lives in rainforests, wet sclerophyll forests and riparian zones. 
*Habits:
*Spends most of its time in the trees but comes to the ground to breed. 
*Similar species:
*This species is most similar to the Orange-thighed Treefrog (_Litoria xanthomera_) which has a different thigh colour. It can also be confused with the Graceful Treefrog (_L. gracilenta_) but this species has pale markings above the eyes that are not present in _L. chloris
_


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 25, 2012)

Looks like L. gracilenta, definetely not L.chloris

They are found in your area

What you have him in is ok for now except I would empty all the water out and replace it with a water bowl, also mist once a day.

If you are positive he isnt from your area then you will need to contact a frog rescue group, I'm not sure of the ones in your area, sorry


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## Jeffa (Feb 25, 2012)

JAS101 said:


> well either way your not allowed [ legal wise] to keep it , so find out where those frogs are found and put it there ?



If this frog was found on your property than you are allowed to keep it with another of the same species. You are allowed up to 8 frogs without licence but no more than 2 of each species.



MathewB said:


> When we got our new boat and my Dad found this little frog, I've ID him as a Southern Orange-Eyed Tree Frog. He definitely, 100000% did NOT come from our house/area. The only frogs here are tiny little things (sedge frog or something), the boat came from a Marina. But this is a new boat and people have been working on it over the last couple of days so there are no definite's as to where it came from.
> 
> I don't want to just release due to the possible effects on the local frogs and I'm not comfortable releasing him at said Marina, so are there any options? Other then keeping him (which I would like to do but he does belong in the wild). I wouldn't think any wildlife people would take him (suggested by mum) so set up Barry in this. I realise it's not adequate and tips would be helpful. I'm aware of the legalities of keeping him but not the penalty's so if someone would enlighten me on this I would appreciate it.
> 
> ...



Crickets, woodies, grasshoppers, moths and insects that will easilly fit in his mouth. It would also be a good idea to dust with calcium supplements evey now and then.


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## MathewB (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, I only say 'cheapest' because I'm low on funds and parents are bit sick of all the animals haha



Jeffa said:


> If this frog was found on your property than you are allowed to keep it with another of the same species. You are allowed up to 8 frogs without licence but no more than 2 of each species.
> 
> Crickets, woodies, grasshoppers, moths and insects that will easilly fit in his mouth. It would also be a good idea to dust with calcium supplements evey now and then.



I was found on our property but not native, so to speak, to our property. Does this mean that I can keep him legally? 

I have a woodie colony so all good there, I tried to give him a baby woodie but he hasn't taken it.


Thanks for all the replys and help


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## eipper (Feb 25, 2012)

It is gracilenta and they are very common in suburbia... Release it


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## JAS101 (Feb 25, 2012)

Jeffa said:


> If this frog was found on your property than you are allowed to keep it with another of the same species. You are allowed up to 8 frogs without licence but no more than 2 of each species.


so u can pretty well poach from the wild - well up to 8 frogs anyway?
just because u dont need a license for it , duznt mean its ok to catch and keep frogs .


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## Manda1032 (Feb 25, 2012)

I was led to believe that if you currently hold a queensland license you cannot keep frogs from the wild. see my thread http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...dies-5373/new-froggy-friend-id-anyone-179858/


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## MathewB (Feb 26, 2012)

eipper said:


> It is gracilenta and they are very common in suburbia... Release it



It may be common in surburbia but it isn't common where I live on the coast



JAS101 said:


> so u can pretty well poach from the wild - well up to 8 frogs anyway?
> just because u dont need a license for it , duznt mean its ok to catch and keep frogs .



I didn't catch it from the wild, it was found in the lazarette of our new boat


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 26, 2012)

MathewB said:


> It may be common in surburbia but it isn't common where I live on the coast
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't catch it from the wild, it was found in the lazarette of our new boat



Whether it was on your boat or on a tree makes little difference


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## Kitah (Feb 26, 2012)

We live on the coast/logan type area- we see these guys around our property, they are native here.


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## eipper (Feb 26, 2012)

I used to live on the coast they are common there...


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## damo77 (Feb 26, 2012)

So long as you dont have a license you have every right to keep it and for those that want to talk about the law if you want to release it *you must do so where you found it* (in your yard). Relocation of frogs is a great way to transport diseases over distances a disease would normally not be able to travel. (it kills its host before it can get that far)

So legally your choices are let it go in your yard where you found it or keep it. Ethically if there is little chance of survival in your yard the best choice is probably to keep it.

Look at this for help http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/register/p00061aa.pdf


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## MathewB (Feb 26, 2012)

damo77 said:


> So long as you dont have a license you have every right to keep it and for those that want to talk about the law if you want to release it *you must do so where you found it* (in your yard). Relocation of frogs is a great way to transport diseases over distances a disease would normally not be able to travel. (it kills its host before it can get that far)
> 
> So legally your choices are let it go in your yard where you found it or keep it. Ethically if there is little chance of survival in your yard the best choice is probably to keep it.
> 
> Look at this for help http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/register/p00061aa.pdf



Thanks Damo. My brother and I both want to keep Barry for a couple reasons (my brother doesn't have a licsence)

1. He could easily get killed by our cats, wild birds etc.
2. He could affect the local frogs (not the same species)
3. In the 6yrs that we have lived on the coast we have never ever seen a Graceful Tree Frog, and we have a pond and everything. The pond at the park, which is 100m down the road, has heaps of little frogs none of which are Gracefuls, I can get a pic if need be.


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 27, 2012)

edit


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## MathewB (Feb 27, 2012)

..


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## jedi_339 (Feb 27, 2012)

What you do with him is really up to you, however he most likely did come from your yard or a neighbours property, L. gracilenta are difficult frogs to find at the best of times, and they often live high in the leaves of trees camoflaged very well during the day so there's a good chance that you'll find some more around if you look thorougly and in the right places


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## MathewB (Feb 27, 2012)

When it rains again I'll go 'frogging' to see if I can find another Barry just in case, until then he'll stay in his enclosure (an exo terra) for the possible benefit of the local frogs


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## jedi_339 (Feb 27, 2012)

MathewB said:


> When it rains again I'll go 'frogging' to see if I can find another Barry just in case, until then he'll stay in his enclosure (an exo terra) for the possible benefit of the local frogs



You could even try some call playback to see if you get a response

Frogs Australia Network - Australian Frog Database - Litoria gracilenta - Graceful Treefrog


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## JAS101 (Feb 27, 2012)

MathewB said:


> Thanks Damo. My brother and I both want to keep Barry for a couple reasons (my brother doesn't have a licsence)
> 
> 1. He could easily get killed by our cats, wild birds etc.
> 2. He could affect the local frogs (not the same species)
> 3. In the 6yrs that we have lived on the coast we have never ever seen a Graceful Tree Frog, and we have a pond and everything. The pond at the park, which is 100m down the road, has heaps of little frogs none of which are Gracefuls, I can get a pic if need be.


lol i love how your trying to convince yourself on what your doing [ poaching/ taking from the wild] is fine .


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## Kitah (Feb 27, 2012)

So you'll dispute what multiple experienced herpers have told you, as well as people in the general local area? Just because you don't see them, does not mean they are not there. For example, if I never see a whip snake on my property, does it mean they don't exist here? Or if I cant see a shark in the ocean, they don't exist there either? Not having a go at you, just putting it into perspective. But, if you want to use that excuse to justify keeping them, nothing we say can stop you! People have already explained that side of things to you.


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 27, 2012)

Are you following the minimum standards? (copied from the DERM website)

*A person must not take any species of amphibian from the wild without a sound knowledge of the particular requirements of that species in captivity.*
• *Amphibians should only be taken from areas where the species exists in abundant and secure populations, rather than from areas with fragmented or remnant populations.*
• Collectors must collect amphibians in a way that avoids damage to the animals themselves, their population and their habitat. In particular, collectors should avoid destructive collecting practices such as damaging, turning or lifting rocks or vegetation.
• Not all amphibians are suitable for captivity. Some individuals within a species may be more susceptible to stress than others. Subject to any specific requirements about the release of wildlife to the wild, any animal showing excessive signs of stress must be returned to the original place of collection.
• *Repatriation of Australia’s native amphibians are threatened by a pathogenic fungus, Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis, known as amphibian chytrid fungus, which causes the progeny infection known as chytridiomycosis. Keepers must be aware of this disease and its symptoms and have an intimate knowledge of the Threat Abatement Plan – “Infection of amphibians with chytrid fungus resulting in chytridiomycosis” developed by the Australian Department of Environment and Heritage under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 when considering taking wild amphibians.*


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## bk201 (Feb 27, 2012)

L0L i love how reptile keeper's cry bloody murder if someone wants to keep a frog, do they not realise all reptiles came from the wild...if you are against reptiles being taken from the wild IM0 do not keep them at all as all of them came from there some just more recently than others.
Some people need to work out the difference between what is moral and what is legal, keeping with a license is legal but not any more moral than those without a licence.


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## Beard (Feb 27, 2012)

JAS101 said:


> so u can pretty well poach from the wild - well up to 8 frogs anyway?
> just because u dont need a license for it , duznt mean its ok to catch and keep frogs .




While I'm not advocating catching and keeping animals of any description this above statement (as the same as many similar) appears slightly hypocritical. 

Every animal we (as a collective) keep is either or has originated from wild caught specimens.


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## JAS101 (Feb 27, 2012)

u know what , im done with this . the op knows its wrong [ read his first post] but yet is still going to keep it . good luck


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 27, 2012)

bk201 said:


> L0L i love how reptile keeper's cry bloody murder if someone wants to keep a frog, do they not realise all reptiles came from the wild...if you are against reptiles being taken from the wild IM0 do not keep them at all as all of them came from there some just more recently than others.
> Some people need to work out the difference between what is moral and what is legal, keeping with a license is legal but not any more moral than those without a licence.



How is legally keeping captive bred animals on the same moral level as illegally taking something from the wild?


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## Gruni (Feb 27, 2012)

When we lived at Balina we never saw one at our house but could hear their throaty call on occasion during thunderstorms but a mate who lived near the canal system used to have one that would hang off his front door. They will be around the area somewhere but it sounds like you have already decided to keep it and the rest of these posts are just a justification of that choice. You can legally keep it or you can let it go.


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## eipper (Feb 27, 2012)

Actually you cannot legally have it at the premises if you have a license. You are only allowed to have a wild frog if you do not have a permit at that address....sorry the "it's my brothers will not wash".

Cheers,
Scott


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## Gruni (Feb 27, 2012)

You know the easiest thing to do is RING your local NPWS/Licensing guys and tell them what has happened and what you should do about it. That way there is no more speculation, ifs or buts.


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## MathewB (Feb 27, 2012)

I'll contact DERM later today

I talked with my parents and they decided that we should let Barry go down at the park, there's a pond a plenty of suitable habitat. 

And that's the story of Barry the frog.


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