# The First Sunglow Carpet Python in the World



## discountreptile (Jul 13, 2012)

This was produced by precision reptiles this year.

Hopefully all going well i will produce some of these bubs next season


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## Snake-Supplies (Jul 13, 2012)

is it gonna stay that colour??


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## Goth-Girl (Jul 13, 2012)

Great colour..Awsome carpet!!


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## ghosts (Jul 13, 2012)

discountreptile said:


> View attachment 259043
> 
> This was produced by precision reptiles this year.
> 
> Hopefully all going well i will produce some of these bubs next season



what is a sunglow? caramel x albino?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...sion-42/caramel-albino-carpet-pythons-117393/


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## Skelhorn (Jul 13, 2012)

Wow...what a colour!


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## thomasssss (Jul 13, 2012)

looks like a normal albino got really bad sunburn i like it , im interested aswell if they stay that colour


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## Grogshla (Jul 13, 2012)

very cool stuff mate. Thanks for sharing!!!
Keep us updated if you can!!


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## kr0nick (Jul 13, 2012)

WOW!
That colouring is stunning. I am first in line for offspring if they turn out looking like this Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AzUqjB1lGyg/TWQrN8sVZwI/AAAAAAAAOKw/nfiCFJwNGq4/s1600/sunglow%2Bboa.jpg but A carpet 
I will beat you all off with sticks lol


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## Stevo2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Shame it's not in Aus


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## Raddy318 (Jul 13, 2012)

cant say i am a fan to be honest. intresting tho


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## Bez84 (Jul 13, 2012)

Be nice when and if these pop up in australian clutches, they have some awesome stuff overseas.


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## ghosts (Jul 13, 2012)

Caramel albinos will be breed next season if they turn out like the sunglows overseas? Who knows


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## discountreptile (Jul 13, 2012)

Stevo2 and bez84, they will be here next season. The genetics are here. Caramel hets crossed back to each other should produce a super form also and fingers crossed for the sunglow jag.
If all going well they should be forsale in 2014 early


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## Mo Deville (Jul 13, 2012)

Yesssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Stevo2 (Jul 13, 2012)

discountreptile said:


> Stevo2 and bez84, they will be here next season. The genetics are here. Caramel hets crossed back to each other should produce a super form also and fingers crossed for the sunglow jag.
> If all going well they should be forsale in 2014 early



I'm sure they will


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2012)

sexy


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## Asharee133 (Jul 13, 2012)

Yuck >.<.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 13, 2012)

Stevo2 said:


> Shame it's not in Aus



Haha! I was going to say, before reading more posts... that there will already be strategies being developed to justify it's arrival in this country ... Forgive my cynicism...

It will be called something else for a year or two, then...

Jamie


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## Icarus (Jul 13, 2012)

that is one sexy snake. it'll cost a pretty penny. how many sunglows were in the clutch?


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 13, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Haha! I was going to say, before reading more posts... that there will already be strategies being developed to justify it's arrival in this country ... Forgive my cynicism...
> 
> It will be called something else for a year or two, then...
> 
> Jamie



They can & will be bred without new arrivals.
Cheers
Ian


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## MonitorMayhem (Jul 13, 2012)

looks nice to me


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## Icarus (Jul 13, 2012)

Asharee133 said:


> Yuck >.<.



didn't your mumma ever teach you, "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"


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## DanN (Jul 13, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Haha! I was going to say, before reading more posts... that there will already be strategies being developed to justify it's arrival in this country ... Forgive my cynicism...
> 
> It will be called something else for a year or two, then...
> 
> Jamie



And I note the large shield-like head scales - very uncharacteristic of carpet pythons. Scale anomalies typical of deleterious inbreeding..


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## Darlyn (Jul 13, 2012)

Icarus said:


> didn't your mumma ever teach you, "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"




Looks like a lower intestine


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## junglepython2 (Jul 13, 2012)

What combination of morphs make sunglow?


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## Stevo2 (Jul 13, 2012)

junglepython2 said:


> What combination of morphs make sunglow?



Being the first in the world and rather exclusive I find it highly unlikely (and foolish in financial terms) that they would disclose the make-up of this morph.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 13, 2012)

Stevo2 said:


> Being the first in the world and rather exclusive I find it highly unlikely (and foolish in financial terms) that they would disclose the make-up of this morph.



It is the first carpet sunglow, certainly not the first sunglow though.


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## snakebag (Jul 13, 2012)

Sunglow is hypo albino

moonglow is hypo axanthic albino (hypo snow albino)


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## junglepython2 (Jul 13, 2012)

snakebag said:


> Sunglow is hypo albino
> 
> moonglow is hypo axanthic albino (hypo snow albino)



I thought the albino would totally overide the hypo? Wouldn't it be something like hypererythism albino?


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## snakebag (Jul 13, 2012)

No the colour is what is shown in albinos blacks and whites are white in albinos so if you have a hypo which is increased and brighter colour (reduced black) you get brighter colour and more of it in your albino hence sunglow


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 13, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> They can & will be bred without new arrivals.
> Cheers
> Ian



Of course they will.... 

Jamie


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## rvcasa (Jul 13, 2012)

kr0nick said:


> Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AzUqjB1lGyg/TWQrN8sVZwI/AAAAAAAAOKw/nfiCFJwNGq4/s1600/sunglow%2Bboa.jpg



That sunglow boa is fab!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Bez84 said:


> they have some awesome stuff overseas.



Check out Prehistoric Pets on YouTube...
You'd need an A3 page just to write down one of those morphs looong names!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CHONDROS (Jul 13, 2012)

a true sunglow is a hypo albino that one is a caramal albino so not a true sunglow


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## ghosts (Jul 14, 2012)

overseas hypo is reduced melanin pigment and is co dom, caramels in australia are reduced melanin pigment and is co dom. are they the same genetically? only time will tell....


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## discountreptile (Jul 14, 2012)

Gidday mate, I think you will find its the other way around, the colouration is what tells the difference. 
It seems to be the same colours as corns than boas and balls


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## SamNabz (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't know what to make of this thing.. At the moment I agree with Darlyn that it looks like an intestine lol but I'm sure there will be more pics of it once it has had a few sheds.



MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> They can & will be bred without new arrivals.
> Cheers
> Ian



lol, coming from the same guy who still believes/preaches that "RPMs" are not founded on O/S stock...


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## junglepython2 (Jul 14, 2012)

So am I right in saying it is a super caramel, albino?


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> Don't know what to make of this thing.. At the moment I agree with Darlyn that it looks like an intestine lol but I'm sure there will be more pics of it once it has had a few sheds.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, coming from the same guy who still believes/preaches that "RPMs" are not founded on O/S stock...



You need to get your facts right.
One does not need new arrivals to breed this. LOL.
Cheers


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## dangles (Jul 14, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> You need to get your facts right.
> One does not need new arrivals to breed this. LOL.
> Cheers


Nowhere did he say new arrivals were needed.


Just he said u believe rpm are not founded on imported stock from o/s


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## discountreptile (Jul 14, 2012)

Junglepython2, I don't know if this is a super form or just caramel het cross albino.

I would think it might be as in to get more from the clutch as only a quarter would turn out like this when trying for a super form with het cross het you are reducing your ratios to an eighth and that is if it works out.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

dangles said:


> Nowhere did he say new arrivals were needed.
> 
> 
> Just he said u believe rpm are not founded on imported stock from o/s



Maybe you should reread the thread to see where my comment was made & then taken into a new meaning.LOL.

Cheers
Ian

I am a bit confused anyway, or someone is, as i do not preach what is alledged.
Cheers again.


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## dangles (Jul 14, 2012)

Hangovers are a bitch...... Missed the sarcastic lol.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> Don't know what to make of this thing.. At the moment I agree with Darlyn that it looks like an intestine lol but I'm sure there will be more pics of it once it has had a few sheds.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, coming from the same guy who still believes/preaches that "RPMs" are not founded on O/S stock...



I am still confused, could you please elaborate how & when you came up with this untrue statement. I believe that i have never made such a statement, let alone preach it.

But i will stick to my original comment on this thread that you do not need new arrivals to do this breeding.
Cheers


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## ghosts (Jul 14, 2012)

It is all speculation about these new morphs. just because the super caramel albino looks like that overseas does mean our lines (if different to overseas lines) will produce the same.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

I am still waiting to find out where my supposed statement came from? who said it? & where?
Or is it all just behind the computer screen?

Cheers
Ian


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## SamNabz (Jul 14, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> I am still waiting to find out where my supposed statement came from? who said it? & where?
> Or is it all just behind the computer screen?
> 
> Cheers
> Ian



Ian, as much as I'd LOVE to go through old threads and pick out comments, I have no time to do so + have a life... The threads would be at least a year old at the time when there was a jag thread starting every 10mins or so...

There's really no point dwelling on what I said because I really don't care enough to prove it to you - I know what I (and others) saw at the time. Just let it go, and go pet your snakes.

By the way, as dangles pointed out, I never mentioned that 'new arrivals' were needed to create this morph. I was however, insinuating that new arrivals will be brought in to speed up the process by those who are lazy/money hungry.

Have a good weekend, I hope you don't lose sleep over my comment(s).


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## Jande (Jul 14, 2012)

You know I think it looks different. Not pretty but definitely attractive in its own right. It's not my cup of tea but that's purely personal taste. 
Hope it all goes well with the breeding. I'm sure people will be lining up to nab some when they're readily available.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> Ian, as much as I'd LOVE to go through old threads and pick out comments, I have no time to do so + have a life... The threads would be at least a year old at the time when there was a jag thread starting every 10mins or so...
> 
> There's really no point dwelling on what I said because I really don't care enough to prove it to you - I know what I (and others) saw at the time. Just let it go, and go pet your snakes.
> 
> ...



Mate you don't have to worry about me loosing any sleep as i sleep well. You are right there is no piont dwelling on any BS that anybody says. I just like to protect my reputation by getting the facts straight. So if you can find anywhere where I have said what you said i did, i will give you $100 for your effort.
Front up or get lost.
Cheers


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## SamNabz (Jul 14, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Mate you don't have to worry about me loosing any sleep as i sleep well. You are right there is no piont dwelling on any BS that anybody says. I just like to protect my reputation by getting the facts straight. So if you can find anywhere where I have said what you said i did, i will give you $100 for your effort.
> Front up or get lost.
> Cheers



I wouldn't get out of bed for $100 let alone go through old threads for it... Keep your money - your "reputation" is sweet, don't worry.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> I wouldn't get out of bed for $100 let alone go through old threads for it... Keep your money - your "reputation" is sweet, don't worry.



Mate i know my reputation is sweet, but what i do worry about is that others try to take it down for whatever reason.
My offer still remains to anyone at all, the first person to come up with where i said & Quote " where i believe/preaches that RPMs are not founded on o/s stock".
Knock yourselves out.

Cheers
Ian


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## SteveNT (Jul 14, 2012)

What's the diff? Just looks like a hatchy alb Darwin. (photos by Pythonmum)
My favourite lower intestines


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 14, 2012)

SteveNT said:


> View attachment 259107
> View attachment 259108
> 
> 
> ...



Steve i have the same thoughts as you, but it is when the young start to colour up i think is the difference.
It will be interesting to see how they colour as they get older.

Cheers
Ian

So not even all the nerds that have looked at this thread connot even come up with what i have suposed to said?
That is great I said it or not? Just another BS line from someone on APS.

Cheers
Ian

So find it or FO & leave me alone & get your facts straight. You person.


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## snakes73 (Jul 16, 2012)

junglepython2 said:


> So am I right in saying it is a super caramel, albino?



Just a normal caramel albino, maybe an albino super caramel would be even better. Be intersting to watch but a true sun glow I think should be a hypo albino not a caramel albino.

Intersting to watch develop to see if it turns out much different to a normal albino as many caramels do not look much different from normal coastals when adults.

Btw you guys should be able to breed better As you have true hypos which we do not (or do not publicly have) which you should be able to produce a much better form of hypo albino with.


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## ghosts (Jul 16, 2012)

Can someone please explain the difference between a true hypo and a caramel? Do we even have co Dom hypos in Australia?


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 16, 2012)

junglepython2 said:


> So am I right in saying it is a super caramel, albino?



Yes you are.

Has anyone come up with the quote or preeching that i have suposedly done yet? LMAO


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## thomasssss (Jul 16, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> i believe/preaches that RPMs are not founded on o/s stock".
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Ian


:lol::lol: i found it , i found it :lol::lol: can i have a $100 now? :lol::lol:

ian dont take this to heart just having a joke with you and everybody else, people should realise that anyone can just chop bits off your quote to make it sound like your saying something your not


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## Cockney_Red (Jul 16, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Yes you are.
> 
> Has anyone come up with the quote or preeching that i have suposedly done yet? LMAO


Heard you the first 5 times......


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 16, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> :lol::lol: i found it , i found it :lol::lol: can i have a $100 now? :lol::lol:
> 
> ian dont take this to heart just having a joke with you and everybody else, people should realise that anyone can just chop bits off your quote to make it sound like your saying something your not



Thanks mate, at long last, please PM me the preeching & comments along with your account number & i will send the money.

Cheers
Ian


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## Asharee133 (Jul 16, 2012)

Icarus said:


> didn't your mumma ever teach you, "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all"


Since when does anyone listen to their mothers?


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 16, 2012)

Asharee133 said:


> Since when does anyone listen to their mothers?



I did, & she told me not to tell lies. LOL.

Cheers


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## snakes73 (Jul 16, 2012)

Originally Posted by *junglepython2* 


So am I right in saying it is a super caramel, albino?


MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Yes you are.
> 
> Has anyone come up with the quote or preeching that i have suposedly done yet? LMAO



It is just a caramel albino as it was bred with a male caramel het paired with an albino female. Had it been a super caramel the only way this year to have produced a super caramel albino would have been a caramel het to a caramel het but the females here are not old enough to breed yet for this.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Jul 16, 2012)

snakes73 said:


> Originally Posted by *junglepython2*
> 
> 
> So am I right in saying it is a super caramel, albino?
> ...



So now it is not a Sunglow?
Cheers
Ian


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## snakes73 (Jul 17, 2012)

MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Yes you are.
> 
> Has anyone come up with the quote or preeching that i have suposedly done yet? LMAO





MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> So now it is not a Sunglow?
> Cheers
> Ian



As it is a first time for breeding this morph mix it can be called a sunglow or whatever the person naming it wants to call it. It is just not a SUPER sunglow.

I am surprised there are no post shed pictures yet? Hopefully they will come soon and then we can see how it develops over time and see if it is worth making some in the future .


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jul 17, 2012)

So going back a bit, want to explain what a caramel Het is? What is it, a paternless or rpm Het or something?


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## snakes73 (Jul 17, 2012)

SpilotaFreak78 said:


> So going back a bit, want to explain what a caramel Het is? What is it, a paternless or rpm Het or something?



Caramel het is a caramel het albino.


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## jenno (Jul 17, 2012)

Great looking snake but get on you tube and all the overseas herpers esp in the states would love to be able to get their hands on our natural run of the mill true blue aussie snakes, its a personal preferance and each to their own but i personally prefer our snakes in their naturally occuring state, would hate to end up like the states and the only thing herpers are keeping are the weird and wonderful morfs....whats the long term future hold for our own breeds if we go to that extreme....ie the life span or health issues that they dont currently have....this is just my opinion coz i prefer my colection to look like what you may find as a general rule out in the wild, we are hobbiest not scientist....i got my licence by handing over $60 and giving the DSE my personal details...im not a genetic scientist.....dont get me wrong i love looking at the wild stuff some of our herpers are achieving their beautiful but should we be playing god?


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## Nighthawk (Jul 17, 2012)

SpilotaFreak78 said:


> So going back a bit, want to explain what a caramel Het is? What is it, a paternless or rpm Het or something?



Whoops; 3 hours sleep + distractions + misreading/understanding terminology = misinformation 
Don't mind me, just go about your business :lol:


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## ghosts (Jul 17, 2012)

Nighthawk said:


> Caramel albinos are Tyrosinase + albinos, like T+ Childreni. Caramel het is heterozygous for T+ albinism.
> The Learning Center - Mutations



Sorry mate the information you put up is right but we are talking about a caramel carpet which is co dom (het for superform) and it was het for t- albino which is rec.


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## TheCheshireCat (Jul 17, 2012)

And so we enter the new era of the hobby, the part where we screw it from the inside out.....well done.


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## ghosts (Jul 17, 2012)

Don't worry miss read it same old bs


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## nervous (Jul 17, 2012)

jenno said:


> Great looking snake but get on you tube and all the overseas herpers esp in the states would love to be able to get their hands on our natural run of the mill true blue aussie snakes, its a personal preferance and each to their own but i personally prefer our snakes in their naturally occuring state, would hate to end up like the states and the only thing herpers are keeping are the weird and wonderful morfs....whats the long term future hold for our own breeds if we go to that extreme....ie the life span or health issues that they dont currently have....this is just my opinion coz i prefer my colection to look like what you may find as a general rule out in the wild, we are hobbiest not scientist....i got my licence by handing over $60 and giving the DSE my personal details...im not a genetic scientist.....dont get me wrong i love looking at the wild stuff some of our herpers are achieving their beautiful but should we be playing god?



And what does this have to do with a sunglow????


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## Mulgaaustralis (Jul 17, 2012)

"reputation"? It's a forum. Get over it.


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jul 17, 2012)

snakes73 said:


> Caramel het is a caramel het albino.


That doesn't really tell me much, I know what a Het for Albino is, as I have one myself. Exactly what is a caramel Het, what does it look like, how is it created, what kind of genetics are involved, thats the sort of info I meant. I only ask as my Het is caramel/orange coloured and is an rpm or hypo if you want to use that word. If there is a possibility she may have these caramel Het genes then I'd like to know a little more about and it would explain to me why I paid so much for her from Snake Ranch.


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## saximus (Jul 17, 2012)

SpilotaFreak78 said:


> That doesn't really tell me much, I know what a Het for Albino is, as I have one myself. Exactly what is a caramel Het, what does it look like, how is it created, what kind of genetics are involved, thats the sort of info I meant. I only ask as my Het is caramel/orange coloured and is an rpm or hypo if you want to use that word. If there is a possibility she may have these caramel Het genes then I'd like to know a little more about and it would explain to me why I paid so much for her from Snake Ranch.



Caramel is co-dominant so, unlike albino which is recessive, a het will show the trait. That means that there is also a homo form (aka super) which looks different again. This can be compared to jags where the hets are the jags we all know and love and the supers are leucistic. So it is created by breeding a caramel (het) with either another caramel or wild type. 
When you said "rpm or hypo if you want to use that word." I think you are confused (or I've misinterpreted). Hypo and jag are two different morphs. Caramel is another name for hypo (I think) but neither have anything to do with jags. From reading this thread, I've gathered that the "sunglow" morph is a combination of both the caramel morph and albino morph. So it could be albino (homo) + caramel (het) or albino + super caramel (homo). I'm sure someone will correct me if that's wrong though.
I hope that helps and hasn't just confused things even more.


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks for that! this was what I was after. In terms of hypo/rpm, I was using the fact that hypomelanistic and reduced patterns can visually seen and was comparing that to the patternless animal in the first post. The only info I had on caramels was told to me by Simon Stone of SXR, but those were Coastals and this is a Darwin, different animal. Good luck with future breeding projects. How much you think they will retail for?


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## Wrightpython (Jul 17, 2012)

When will someone produce a super caramel het albino rpm jag bumblebee hypo melanistic green tree python, I'll pay good money for it.


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jul 27, 2012)

You know, not trying to nitpick, but I always thought that 'sunglow' was a type of Coastal carpet morph, because as far as I knew only Coastals had the appparent caramel gene. I know someone has explained what the caramel gene in Darwins in here to me before, but I'm still hung on the whole coastals caramel gene thing.


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## K3nny (Jul 27, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> When will someone produce a super caramel het albino rpm jag bumblebee hypo melanistic green tree python, I'll pay good money for it.



you do realise a combination of the morphs above would probably produce the normal color form? well not for a GTP anyway but you get the idea


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