# Anyone a criminal defense lawyer?



## Maseface (May 4, 2013)

Just curious if anyone is a criminal defense lawyer on here?
Need some advice :S


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## Tempest404 (May 4, 2013)

I don't know of anyone on here but I did study a little at uni. And my mates qualified... Though he pretty Jewish with his time perse


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## montysrainbow (May 4, 2013)

im not but ive watched enough cop shows to know all about it lol whats up?


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## thomasssss (May 4, 2013)

montysrainbow said:


> im not but ive watched enough cop shows to know all about it lol whats up?


who needs qualifications when you have tv  all the knowledge you need right there


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## Maseface (May 4, 2013)

Ok, heres the run down. 
I blew .106 BAC the other day, thats mid-range, lost license on the spot.
Its my first offence, i haven't even had a parking ticket before.
I honestly felt sober, i only had 3 schooners. But the fact is, this was around 4pm and all i had eaten was 2 wheetbix that morning, im also quite a small build.
we started drinking around 1:30, and stopped at like 3:30, i gave myself an extra hour. I thought that'd be plenty. Apparently not.
If i lose my license, i lost my job. My girlfriend also wont be able to pay the 670 a fortnight rent by herself, so we'd lose the lease. 
I'd literally have nowhere to go.
I have a court date on the 22nd to appeal the suspension, and HOPEFULLY just get a bond or somthing, probably do a traffic offender course also.
The only penalty i really need to avoid is the suspension, a fine, bond or anything else im fine with. The suspension is really gunna tear stuff up though.
I just need some advice, maybe off anyone whose been in a similar situation or preferably a aussiepythons criminal defense lawyer haha.

Theres no point in judging me, i know i messed up. You saying it again makes no difference whatsoever.


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## MrFireStorm (May 4, 2013)

I'm no lawyer but have you enquired about a restricted licence (or equivalent) for work purposes??

I had 1 many many moons ago, which allowed me to drive from my residence to work and back again. I was also a courier driver, so it allowed me to drive a company vehicle.


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## saintanger (May 4, 2013)

fight it, its your first driving offence and for mid range alcohol level you should not lose your license. are you a P plater or fully licensed? 

good luck


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## Rogue5861 (May 4, 2013)

Not sure mate but maybe you could opt for an interlock system in your car, no drinking an driving at all and can only drive that vehicle (could possible get 2 systems in work and person vehicle but they do have calibration fees) Being first offence could sway this in your favour, hopefully someone educated can enlighten us on it but if not call a lawyer on monday and see if they can help.

Even a court appointed laywer may be able to help, may be able to move up the date on your court day so you can get back to work.


Rick


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## Rowie (May 4, 2013)

What is your job? 
And what state are you in? 
In QLD, if you just need your license to go to and from work they might be able to offer you a work suspension or something. Means you still keep your license but the fine is doubled and so is the time you're on suspension, BUT you can drive your car along a set route to and from work. Immediate loss of license for double the period though if you're caught driving outside that route or get any other traffic offense during the time period.
If you need your car for travel over a large area, such as if you're a sales rep etc, you might also be eligible for a special hardship order if you can prove that losing your license will result in extreme hardship to your or your family by depriving you of the means of earning a living.


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## sd1981 (May 4, 2013)

Appeal it (the suspension) based on the grounds of requiring a licence for grounds of employment. Admit your mistake via statement tendered to the court and if you were on any medication at the time of incident, that helps as meds and alcohol can effect your BAC.If you have held a licence for more than 10 years with no prior convictions in a similar situation, you can apply to get a section 10- no conviction recorded, and placed on a conditional licence ( means that you must not incur a single demerit point for a term set out by the presiding magistrate - usually 12 months ). If you breach those terms, the original penalty may apply or even be extended. You will end up paying a monetary fine either way... I am not a solicitor, however my best mate was in a higher range DUI category and faced court 6 weeks ago and did the aforementioned, and is still allowed to drive. He is on a tight leash though....


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## TheChondroCharm (May 4, 2013)

Pm me if you want. I've had a lot of licence issues and done a lot of digging to find loopholes. Only know qld law though.


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## Maseface (May 4, 2013)

Im in NSW, and im a boilermaker for Westrac. I do 5 10hour shifts a week.
I travel about 400kms a week.
Im have my full lisence.
As for an interlock i don't really think they'd impose that for a single offense, especially one that wasn't high range,



Rowie said:


> What is your job?
> And what state are you in?
> In QLD, if you just need your license to go to and from work they might be able to offer you a work suspension or something. Means you still keep your license but the fine is doubled and so is the time you're on suspension, BUT you can drive your car along a set route to and from work. Immediate loss of license for double the period though if you're caught driving outside that route or get any other traffic offense during the time period.
> If you need your car for travel over a large area, such as if you're a sales rep etc, you might also be eligible for a special hardship order if you can prove that losing your license will result in extreme hardship to your or your family by depriving you of the means of earning a living.


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## andynic07 (May 4, 2013)

Don't stress mate, I would imagine from my experience (in Queensland) that you would be able to get a work license. In Queensland if you get a letter from your boss saying that you need your license for work or that you without your license there is no public transport options and the judge can not put you in a position of financial difficulty.


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## montysrainbow (May 4, 2013)

Happened to someone I know and they were able to get a work license, try not to stress too much I'm sure u will be able to do the same.


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## Pizzalover (May 4, 2013)

*go alone*

look heres some advice from a noob, I lost my licence for sppeding, and unfortunately was unregistered, ok not DUI. Heres the oil on it, if you pay lawyer your out of pocket straight up, when your represented the judge sees you as a well healed punter (lawyer representing you ) . BOOM he hits you regardless, go it alone, you go to a smaller court room where the judge will be a little more privy to you standing up there stating your case, get the poor kids from the neighbour hood to be with you crying etc (jokes) but seriously ive seen it done, I pleaded my case although I could of lost my licence for 3 months I was given a $100 fine, didn't lose it either. just tell them you had an error in judgement when you drank more than you thought was legal, you hadn't eaten etc which made you appear over, you need your licence etc state why. Tell them your struggling with finances and are trying to keep out of bankruptcy, its almost like your about to die, lol you need to have an academy award display going on there my friend.  dress nicely too don't look like a bum


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## Pollycarl (May 4, 2013)

Hi. I am a criminal defence lawyer and have been for 15 years. Not good news unfortunately. You will lose your licence for at least 6 months (the minimum period for mid range drink driving) the maximum period is 12 months. That's for a first offence. You will probably also be fined and or be placed on a bond. The chances of getting a section 10 (no conviction so no disqualification) are pretty slim for a midrange .106 but no harm in asking. The appeal you have on the 22nd sounds like it is just an appeal against the on the spot suspension the cops issued you with. The court will not deal with the drink driving charge on that date. You run the risk of getting your licence back on the 22nd (I think its highly unlikely the court will grant the appeal) only to lose it again when the matter is finally dealt with. There is no such thing as a work licence (trust me it does not exist). Go see legal aid they can give you free legal advice. Of course I have to say that this advice is general only and I don't know all your circumstances so you really get some proper legal advice to discuss your exact situation.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Pollycarl said:


> Hi. I am a criminal defence lawyer and have been for 15 years. Not good news unfortunately. You will lose your licence for at least 6 months (the minimum period for mid range drink driving) the maximum period is 12 months. That's for a first offence. You will probably also be fined and or be placed on a bond. The chances of getting a section 10 (no conviction so no disqualification) are pretty slim for a midrange .106 but no harm in asking. The appeal you have on the 22nd sounds like it is just an appeal against the on the spot suspension the cops issued you with. The court will not deal with the drink driving charge on that date. You run the risk of getting your licence back on the 22nd (I think its highly unlikely the court will grant the appeal) only to lose it again when the matter is finally dealt with. There is no such thing as a work licence (trust me it does not exist). Go see legal aid they can give you free legal advice. Of course I have to say that this advice is general only and I don't know all your circumstances so you really get some proper legal advice to discuss your exact situation.


My father-in-law was able to drive between nominated hours of the day for work purposes only , this was in Queensland. I am not sure what it is called it but this is the arrangement that I refered to as a "work license" and I am not even sure that this is available as it was around 12 months ago. I am pretty sure that legal aid is not available for DUI offences in Queensland either, this is drawn from my own experience many years ago (approx 15) and it was a reading of .176 which in Queensland is a criminal offence and this may have been the reason that legal aid was not made available to me.


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## B-Bear (May 5, 2013)

I've never gone for over limit myself but have friends whop have. I live in SA so not sure how much of this first bit will apply to you.
Here we have the option to get a second reading done by a doctor of our choice as long as it's done within 24 hours. Now some may think it a little extreme being given 24 hrs but Mr/Mrs/Ms Judge takes into consideration if you've taken an overly long time and all they really let slip is reasonable time for the defendant to get to any Doctor. The cops even give you a little showbag to assist in this happening.
Next pieces of advice goes for all states.
(1)It is law that when questioned/pulled over by the police all you have to state is "your name" and "your address". Many convictions are at least made easier, if not made possible by people not knowing or forgetting this. This canb be a tatic not for the faint hearted since being a hard with this may see you playing sleep out for the night or till the next working day. After saying this it will save days inside later and make life far easier for your legal representation to the point of saving your butt later. In court the cops will try to scare you for you exercising your RIGHTS by saying nasty things like "the defendant was extremely unco-operative upon questioning". Fortunately this accounts for nothing to the Judge.
(2)You must also follow ALL "lawful" directions of the officer which in this case (and all motor vehicle cases) is to present your drivers licence and participate in any test that you are "healthy" for (it's too late for you sorry buddy but others may want to look at these reasons and have a Dr. confirm these but you would basically need to have emphasema (sp?????), heamophilia and bladder problems to avoid all their tests).
(3)Good lawyers are like fast cars, the more you spend the faster/better they are (for want of a better metaphor). If you are willing to stay in debt for the next couple of years and sign over your first born to the Devil (for a basic type of charge, bigger the charge and you'll stay in debt for a bit longer and sign over a couple more of your kids) you can almost get away with murder (especially if all you state is name and address).
(4)Times are hard for everyone now, even legal representation, so you can usually take it with a grain of salt when you hear on radio etc. that this firm or that firm "specialises" in any particular area of law, especially when it comes to criminal law of which drink driving is covered. There are the exceptions ie- injury claims and business law but as stated before criminal lawyers are happy and capable to defend all us baddies.
(5)If I had access to an amount of money that could end up being as much as $30,000-$40,000 my first call would be to a Q.C's office for about a $200 phone call. For this call you should get directed to extremely competent legal representation. Now don't faint when this next person ends up asking for $10,000 straight up which will be put in a trustee account of which they (legal representation) can access when needed.
These last 5 points apply to anyone in legal strup so if your that way inclined make sure you know the rules before you play the game.
Maseface, good luck and maybe instead of wasting it up next time save up for that next snake/lizard you want!!!
PS- I think now is a good time to recite a couple of lines of a song (Rolling Stones:Sympathy for the Devil)
-every cop is a criminal
and all the sinners saints


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## dangles (May 5, 2013)

My brother in law got a suspended sentence for hist first offence of mid range. Similar circumstances to yourself ate nothing had a couple, then left for work a couple of hours later. He got done a second time 4 months later and received 6months disqualification. Tell it as it is, also state that from this incident even if you have 1 drink you wont get behind the wheel in future as you have seen how easy it is to be over. Good luck with it alll


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## Luvbuz (May 5, 2013)

If you blew .106 after only drinking three schooners over a three hour period then you have miscalculated the number of beers you drank. A standard drink (375ml schooner of mid strength beer) will load you up with approx .02%. The body metabolises alcohol at a rate of about .02% per hour. Therefore if you had three standard drinks in three hours your BAC should be close to .02% or lower. If you blew .106% after three hours your standard drink intake was more like 8 or 9 schooners. Not eating more than a few weet-bix has nothing to do with the final reading, as food merely slows alcohol absorption, it doesn't increase it. Being a smaller build also means the alcohol is absorbed more quickly giving a higher reading faster, but it doesn't alter the fact that .106 is NOT 3 schooners!!! I'd be talking to a drink drive lawyer because if you try and tell the magistrate you only had three beers and had a final reading of .106%, they all use the same calculations I just provided and will KNOW you have had more drinks than you're saying and will call you a liar and have no sympathy to your cause. How do I know? Been there before and seen it first hand!!!!


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## wokka (May 5, 2013)

If you are a boilermaker working 50 hours a week you could afford a taxi or a bus, maybe car pool or get someone to drive you. The whole idea of the community spending money to police the rules, is to discourage and catch those who are endangering society. Hopefully any hassle and expense will remind you next time.


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## Umbral (May 5, 2013)

I got done at .062 a while ago, went to court, put on a bond and got no fine as I had a clean record. I explained that I need my licence as part of the job and the judge was understanding. I think to some degree it comes down to having an understanding judge and presenting your self well, don't go in and cry that it's unfair, go in and admit you did the wrong thing and made a bad judgement call.


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## Maseface (May 5, 2013)

they were 3 full strength schooners, nsw a schooner is 425ml.



Luvbuz said:


> If you blew .106 after only drinking three schooners over a three hour period then you have miscalculated the number of beers you drank. A standard drink (375ml schooner of mid strength beer) will load you up with approx .02%. The body metabolises alcohol at a rate of about .02% per hour. Therefore if you had three standard drinks in three hours your BAC should be close to .02% or lower. If you blew .106% after three hours your standard drink intake was more like 8 or 9 schooners. Not eating more than a few weet-bix has nothing to do with the final reading, as food merely slows alcohol absorption, it doesn't increase it. Being a smaller build also means the alcohol is absorbed more quickly giving a higher reading faster, but it doesn't alter the fact that .106 is NOT 3 schooners!!! I'd be talking to a drink drive lawyer because if you try and tell the magistrate you only had three beers and had a final reading of .106%, they all use the same calculations I just provided and will KNOW you have had more drinks than you're saying and will call you a liar and have no sympathy to your cause. How do I know? Been there before and seen it first hand!!!!


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## Maseface (May 5, 2013)

Thanks for your feedback, I'm just wondering what you mean by this below? If they don't deal with the charge on that date, then when does it occur - would I have to go to court again? I thought it was all said and done on the court date (unless a provision must be met under a Section 10 dismissal, such as completing the Traffic Offence Intervention Program)



Pollycarl said:


> The appeal you have on the 22nd sounds like it is just an appeal against the on the spot suspension the cops issued you with. The court will not deal with the drink driving charge on that date. You run the risk of getting your licence back on the 22nd (I think its highly unlikely the court will grant the appeal) only to lose it again when the matter is finally dealt with.


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## Ramsayi (May 5, 2013)

Over double the legal limit you will be put off the road without a doubt,job or not.


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## Irbz_27 (May 5, 2013)

Luvbuz said:


> If you blew .106 after only drinking three schooners over a three hour period then you have miscalculated the number of beers you drank. A standard drink (375ml schooner of mid strength beer) will load you up with approx .02%. The body metabolises alcohol at a rate of about .02% per hour. Therefore if you had three standard drinks in three hours your BAC should be close to .02% or lower. If you blew .106% after three hours your standard drink intake was more like 8 or 9 schooners. Not eating more than a few weet-bix has nothing to do with the final reading, as food merely slows alcohol absorption, it doesn't increase it. Being a smaller build also means the alcohol is absorbed more quickly giving a higher reading faster, but it doesn't alter the fact that .106 is NOT 3 schooners!!! I'd be talking to a drink drive lawyer because if you try and tell the magistrate you only had three beers and had a final reading of .106%, they all use the same calculations I just provided and will KNOW you have had more drinks than you're saying and will call you a liar and have no sympathy to your cause. How do I know? Been there before and seen it first hand!!!!




I think you're a fair way off the mark there mate, there are many circumstances that can contribute to what you blow. Size of a person and how much has been eaten are two of them... I got done a little while ago and blew .075. I was blind. I'd had 26 bourbons over two and a half hours, and six double bourbons in the 5 hours before that. There isn't an exact rule that says if you drink x amount you will blow .y
There is a rough guideline that really means nothing because of all the additional factors that need to be looked at. The only safe way to guarantee being under is to not drink before driving

To the op, don't like your chances of keeping license mate. These days there are mandatory sentences on a lot driving offenses and the best lawyer in the country can't help you. Couldn't say how long for, but I'd say you'll be spending a bit of time off the road. How long is the question. Exemptions for work, as someone else has said, don't exist. Also as far as legal aid goes, Here in Victoria it isn't available for driving offenses anymore. Don't know about other states. Good luck anyway mate


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## FAY (May 5, 2013)

If you have no points lost or fines in 5 years, do you get your licence for half price when you renew it in NSW?
Seeing we are talking about fines etc thought I would ask


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## cma_369 (May 5, 2013)

If its in nsw i know of 2 people who were able to obtain these licences for work between certain hours.....
Even know of one who has had "Silent p's" i think he called it, instead of a 3 month suspension.
If you incur any demerit points in that time, you instantly lost your licence for 6, or 12 months.

Don't know if you can qualify for these as they wern't done for drink driving offences, however i am pretty sure a mid range reading doesn't seem promising (first offence, or not).....


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## cma_369 (May 5, 2013)

FAY said:


> If you have no points lost or fines in 5 years, do you get your licence for half price when you renew it in NSW?
> Seeing we are talking about fines etc thought I would ask



I think so.
Wish it was for cheaper rego though, just recieved my green slip and rego renewal.....
Just had a minor heart attack! its a joke how we get taken for a ride in nsw.....


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## thomasssss (May 5, 2013)

cma_369 said:


> I think so.
> Wish it was for cheaper rego though, just recieved my green slip and rego renewal.....
> Just had a minor heart attack! its a joke how we get taken for a ride in nsw.....


rego isnt a joke , it has its reasons for being in place you just have to open your eyes and look past the $$$ to see them

FAY- yes you do get that in nsw , my sister has one but why do you have to ask , your location is listed as sydney ?


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## cma_369 (May 5, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> rego isnt a joke , it has its reasons for being in place you just have to open your eyes and look past the $$$ to see them
> 
> FAY- yes you do get that in nsw , my sister has one but why do you have to ask , your location is listed as sydney ?



No where did i say its not needed.....
We are however being taken for a ride, you just need to see how much cheaper it is interstate........


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## wokka (May 5, 2013)

cma_369 said:


> I think so.
> Wish it was for cheaper rego though, just recieved my green slip and rego renewal.....
> Just had a minor heart attack! its a joke how we get taken for a ride in nsw.....


I doubt that the cost of green slips goes anywhere near covering the cost of injuries caused by car accidents- even if the drivers are not under the influence. Just another case where society pays for the consequences of individuals who know better than to follow the rules!


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

wokka said:


> I doubt that the cost of green slips goes anywhere near covering the cost of injuries caused by car accidents- even if the drivers are not under the influence. Just another case where society pays for the consequences of individuals who know better than to follow the rules!


I bet that if rego was cheap and people had to pay personal insurance for such accidents it would be a lot more expensive. In Queensland we do not have to get a roadworthy certificate every year like down in NSW and we have a lot of s$%t boxes on the road that have passed a roadworthy 5 or 10 years ago and have had no maintenance done in this time.


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## FAY (May 5, 2013)

I have to ask as this will be the first time in my life I have ever had to renew my licence...



thomasssss said:


> rego isnt a joke , it has its reasons for being in place you just have to open your eyes and look past the $$$ to see them
> 
> FAY- yes you do get that in nsw , my sister has one but why do you have to ask , your location is listed as sydney ?


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

wokka said:


> I doubt that the cost of green slips goes anywhere near covering the cost of injuries caused by car accidents- even if the drivers are not under the influence. Just another case where society pays for the consequences of individuals who know better than to follow the rules!



Roughly 5.5 million vehicles registered in NSW. That's roughly $2.2 billion in revenue from green slips. I doubt the cost of injuries caused by car accidents in NSW is that high. Insurance companies aren't charity organisations and only have their profit margins in mind.


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## thomasssss (May 5, 2013)

FAY said:


> I have to ask as this will be the first time in my life I have ever had to renew my licence...


oh my bad , i thought you may of had your location listed wrong for some reason


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Roughly 5.5 million vehicles registered in NSW. That's roughly $2.2 billion in revenue from green slips. I doubt the cost of injuries caused by car accidents in NSW is that high. Insurance companies aren't charity organisations and only have their profit margins in mind.


That $400 per "green slip" is partially put back into the roads and administration fees. It is slightly inflated but as you stated the insurance companies need to make money as well and the rest of the fees go into roads and government fees. I guess the insurance companies play the numbers game and work out roughly how much they will pay out per annum and how many customers they have and then add the profit margin in.We have all seen recent times in Queensland where the insurance companies were caught out by the recent floods.


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## moosenoose (May 5, 2013)

saintanger said:


> fight it, its your first driving offence and for mid range alcohol level you should not lose your license. are you a P plater or fully licensed?
> 
> good luck



And if you do fight it, make sure you bring in a good barrister. I took a winnable matter to court... stupidly thought I'd handle it myself, and was torn a new one by the police prosecuter :lol: Even the judge asked me why I didn't bring in help :lol:


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> That $400 per "green slip" is partially put back into the roads and administration fees. It is slightly inflated but as you stated the insurance companies need to make money as well and the rest of the fees go into roads and government fees. I guess the insurance companies play the numbers game and work out roughly how much they will pay out per annum and how many customers they have and then add the profit margin in.We have all seen recent times in Queensland where the insurance companies were caught out by the recent floods.



Compulsory third party insurance is privatised in NSW so none of that money goes back to infrastructure. We then pay registration on top of that to the RTA. To register my car this year cost over $1k and I'm 30 and have never had an accident. That's $700 to the state gvt and $400 to an insurance company.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Compulsory third party insurance is privatised in NSW so none of that money goes back to infrastructure. We then pay registration on top of that to the RTA. To register my car this year cost over $1k and I'm 30 and have never had an accident. That's $700 to the state gvt and $400 to an insurance company.


Fair enough but I am sure that the insurance company still does it's sums and makes it's profit on top. I am also sure that some see it as excessive profits except the share holders who are demanding more.


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> I think you're a fair way off the mark there mate, there are many circumstances that can contribute to what you blow. Size of a person and how much has been eaten are two of them... I got done a little while ago and blew .075. I was blind. I'd had 26 bourbons over two and a half hours, and six double bourbons in the 5 hours before that. There isn't an exact rule that says if you drink x amount you will blow .y
> There is a rough guideline that really means nothing because of all the additional factors that need to be looked at. The only safe way to guarantee being under is to not drink before driving
> 
> To the op, don't like your chances of keeping license mate. These days there are mandatory sentences on a lot driving offenses and the best lawyer in the country can't help you. Couldn't say how long for, but I'd say you'll be spending a bit of time off the road. How long is the question. Exemptions for work, as someone else has said, don't exist. Also as far as legal aid goes, Here in Victoria it isn't available for driving offenses anymore. Don't know about other states. Good luck anyway mate




If you honestly believe you can metabolise 26 bourbons down to a blood alcohol reading of .075 in 2 1/2 hours then you're still drunk  It's not physically possible. 




Luvbuz said:


> If you blew .106 after only drinking three schooners over a three hour period then you have miscalculated the number of beers you drank. A standard drink (375ml schooner of mid strength beer) will load you up with approx .02%. The body metabolises alcohol at a rate of about .02% per hour. Therefore if you had three standard drinks in three hours your BAC should be close to .02% or lower. If you blew .106% after three hours your standard drink intake was more like 8 or 9 schooners. Not eating more than a few weet-bix has nothing to do with the final reading, as food merely slows alcohol absorption, it doesn't increase it. Being a smaller build also means the alcohol is absorbed more quickly giving a higher reading faster, but it doesn't alter the fact that .106 is NOT 3 schooners!!! I'd be talking to a drink drive lawyer because if you try and tell the magistrate you only had three beers and had a final reading of .106%, they all use the same calculations I just provided and will KNOW you have had more drinks than you're saying and will call you a liar and have no sympathy to your cause. How do I know? Been there before and seen it first hand!!!!




Reminds me of a mate who wrote his car off. He was so drunk he was throwing up at the scene when the cops arrived. On his statement he wrote that he'd had one schooner and one middie of beer  Needless to say he lost his licence.




andynic07 said:


> Fair enough but I am sure that the insurance company still does it's sums and makes it's profit on top. I am also sure that some see it as excessive profits except the share holders who are demanding more.



Agreed. That's what I was saying


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## reptalica (May 5, 2013)

Maseface said:


> Ok, heres the run down.
> I blew .106 BAC the other day, thats mid-range, lost license on the spot.
> Its my first offence, i haven't even had a parking ticket before.
> I honestly felt sober, i only had 3 schooners. But the fact is, this was around 4pm and all i had eaten was 2 wheetbix that morning, im also quite a small build.
> ...



OK, here goes maseface.

A little insight into my past......I was a cop for almost 5 years Melbourne (20 years ago) and have worked in a jail for 5 years. Maybe doesn't make me qualified but I have a reasonable idea and insight.

Before I get jumped on for what I used to do anyone, don't. It was a job....it put food on the table and paid the rent (at the time). This was 20 or so years ago. The job has changed a lot.....a real lot. Not much respect there for those in blue. I wouldn't like to be doing it now.

With regards to your situation, what state are you in, what licence do you hold and how old are you????

IMHO, .106 even for a first offence I would be honest if u got off even with just a fine. The only way you can fight it at court would be due to a technical issue or wrongful proceedings etc. U can get a solicitor/barrister and what happens is that u would front up to court, plead guilty but get the solicitor/barrister to explain your situation i.e. needing licence for work.

Unfortunately these days the courts r fairly heavy handed with drink driving. 

At the end of the day u have to be as sincere and apologetic as u can.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

reptalica said:


> OK, here goes maseface.
> 
> A little insight into my past......I was a cop for almost 5 years Melbourne (20 years ago) and have worked in a jail for 5 years. Maybe doesn't make me qualified but I have a reasonable idea and insight.
> 
> ...


Cops do a good job most of the time. As with all walks of life there are the bad ones and the good ones. I have seen both ends of that spectrum and been that end of the spectrum for some cops but as you said they are just people and are doing a good job in most parts.


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## Irbz_27 (May 5, 2013)

I do honestly believe that I blew .075 I still have the certificate from the reading. I still have the police brief. it is physically possible i can assure you. I never said I wasn't drunk. I was blind drunk. Choose to believe it or not, I'm not sitting here bragging saying I'm great cos I drank so much and had such a low reading. It was a very stupid thing to do and I was very lucky to get away as well as I did. My point was that a lot of factors come in to consideration. I'm sure at 130kgs my reading after 5 drinks would be lower than that of someone that weighs in at 65kgs...


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> I do honestly believe that I blew .075 I still have the certificate from the reading. I still have the police brief. it is physically possible i can assure you. I never said I wasn't drunk. I was blind drunk. Choose to believe it or not, I'm not sitting here bragging saying I'm great cos I drank so much and had such a low reading. It was a very stupid thing to do and I was very lucky to get away as well as I did. My point was that a lot of factors come in to consideration. I'm sure at 130kgs my reading after 5 drinks would be lower than that of someone that weighs in at 65kgs...


You can drink pretty well if you can drink 1.74 standard drinks every 10 minutes for 2.5 hours and still be able to drive.


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## Irbz_27 (May 5, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> You can drink pretty well if you can drink 1.74 standard drinks every 10 minutes for 2.5 hours and still be able to drive.



Mate I can hold my booze well, but I was really in no condition to drive.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> Mate I can hold my booze well, but I was really in no condition to drive.


I can imagine but I think either your blood alcohol reading wasn't up to where it should have been or your sums are out.


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> I do honestly believe that I blew .075 I still have the certificate from the reading. I still have the police brief. it is physically possible i can assure you. I never said I wasn't drunk. I was blind drunk. Choose to believe it or not, I'm not sitting here bragging saying I'm great cos I drank so much and had such a low reading. It was a very stupid thing to do and I was very lucky to get away as well as I did. My point was that a lot of factors come in to consideration. I'm sure at 130kgs my reading after 5 drinks would be lower than that of someone that weighs in at 65kgs...




I say again, not possible. 26 drinks in 2 1/2 hours to blow .075??? That is literally a lethal amount of alcohol. Look it up if you don't believe me, there's calculators online that take weight into consideration.


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## reptalica (May 5, 2013)

More like 7.05.


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## Irbz_27 (May 5, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> I say again, not possible. 26 drinks in 2 1/2 hours to blow .075??? That is literally a lethal amount of alcohol. Look it up if you don't believe me, there's calculators online that take weight into consideration.



Mate I'm not here to debate the fact. I don't need you to believe me. That wasn't the point of what I was saying. I'm sure there are calculators that take everything in to account. And they'd be 100% accurate. Forgive me, I was wrong. You're right


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> Mate I'm not here to debate the fact. I don't need you to believe me. That wasn't the point of what I was saying. I'm sure there are calculators that take everything in to account. And they'd be 100% accurate. Forgive me, I was wrong. You're right




I don't believe the story as a whole. Could be a dodgy breath tester or a dodgy recollection due to too much alcohol. Either way...


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Usually when someone drinks they start off slow and then come home blazing all guns. It also takes alcohol time to be absorbed into the body so it could be that the story may be slightly exaggerated and the reading was not quite up to where it should have been due to the way it was consumed.


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

Only takes 15 minutes for it to take affect.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Only takes 15 minutes for it to take affect.


It might start to take effect after 15 minutes but it will keep rising after that. I know that when I was a young teenager that a mate and I went halves in a bottle of bourbon and it was while we were at a boarding school and only had a large slurpee cup to drink out of so we poured a quarter of the bottle into the cup and added coke which I skulled then he did the same then I finished my other quarter and I was still getting more inebriated than I was 15 minutes after I finished my first drink.


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## Skeptic (May 5, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> It might start to take effect after 15 minutes but it will keep rising after that. I know that when I was a young teenager that a mate and I went halves in a bottle of bourbon and it was while we were at a boarding school and only had a large slurpee cup to drink out of so we poured a quarter of the bottle into the cup and added coke which I skulled then he did the same then I finished my other quarter and I was still getting more inebriated than I was 15 minutes after I finished my first drink.



Sorry, my bad. 15 minutes was a figure I thought was right. Just did a little research and you're right. The highest BAC (blood alcohol concentration) is usually achieved 30 minutes after completion of consumption but it can take up to 60 minutes when high levels of alcohol have been consumed over a short time period or a large volume of food is consumed at the same time. 

I still say the story is impossible though.


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## wokka (May 6, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Roughly 5.5 million vehicles registered in NSW. That's roughly $2.2 billion in revenue from green slips. I doubt the cost of injuries caused by car accidents in NSW is that high. Insurance companies aren't charity organisations and only have their profit margins in mind.


my recollection is that NSW green slips used to be part of reigistration administerred by the Government. By putting it out to private market it means user pays, ie the car owners pay for the damage their cars do. Previouslythe whole community had to cover the cost of those injured by car accidents. I supposed a further improvement would be to link the Greenslip to those driving the car instead of those owning it but that may be a practical nightmare. My opinion is that private enterpise (insurance companies) are generally more efficient with administration than the government as they have accountability whereas government exspenses often get muddied with other departments. I think the profit margin from Greenslips may be limited by legislation.


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## Ambush (May 6, 2013)

Drink Drive. Pay the crime.


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## Pollycarl (May 6, 2013)

*The Appeal on the 22nd*

When you got done for the mid-range, the cops would have given you a Court Attendance Notice and a copy of the Blood Analysis Reading (looks like a shopping receipt attached to a certificate). They also would have given you the Licence Suspension Form. There is a date on the Court Attendance Notice telling you which court and on what date to attend. That date is where you turn up to court and enter either guilty (and get sentenced) or not guilty. You can also ask for an adjournment so you can complete the Traffic Offenders Program if you want. It can't hurt and it may help your application for a section 10.

You said on your original post that you had an appeal against the suspension on the 22nd. I assume by that you must have filled in a form at the court registry to lodge the appeal. That appeal is only against the cops suspending your license on the spot and nothing else. Unless of course the court put it on the same date as the drink driving charge. That doesn't happen very often because they usually like to get the appeals on ASAP because until you plead guilty and are sentenced/disqualified you are entitled to a presumption of innocence (even for drink driving). As I said before even if the Court upholds your appeal (unlikely) it only means you can drive until the drink driving matter is finalised. It might be helpful if you do the traffic offenders program because that takes at least 6 weeks (if you can get in) and you can drive during that period. I keep on reading about work licences. THEY DO NOT EXIST. I have done 100's if not 1000's of drink driving and other traffic matters over 15 years. I have never seen or heard of one (other that people saying they know someone who got one - I've never even met anyone that's got one) and there is no provision in the law for them.

Good luck





Maseface said:


> Thanks for your feedback, I'm just wondering what you mean by this below? If they don't deal with the charge on that date, then when does it occur - would I have to go to court again? I thought it was all said and done on the court date (unless a provision must be met under a Section 10 dismissal, such as completing the Traffic Offence Intervention Program)


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## andynic07 (May 6, 2013)

Pollycarl said:


> I keep on reading about work licences. THEY DO NOT EXIST. I have done 100's if not 1000's of drink driving and other traffic matters over 15 years. I have never seen or heard of one (other that people saying they know someone who got one - I've never even met anyone that's got one) and there is no provision in the law for them.
> 
> Good luck


Not sure about the state you live in but this is in Queensland
I have never seen an electron in the 17 years of being an electrician but it does not mean they do not exist. lol
http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/publ...uides/Work-licence/Documents/work_licence.pdf


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## Ambush (May 6, 2013)

It's NSW and yes it does not exist,, did in the 70's 6 am to 6pm


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## Maseface (May 6, 2013)

reptalica said:


> OK, here goes maseface.
> 
> A little insight into my past......I was a cop for almost 5 years Melbourne (20 years ago) and have worked in a jail for 5 years. Maybe doesn't make me qualified but I have a reasonable idea and insight.
> 
> ...



thanks for the reply man.

Im in NSW, i've had a license for 7 years ( next week) and i've never even got so much as a parking ticket.
Unfortunately im a 23 (next week) year old male driver, so statistically this is not working in my favor.
I am already pleading guilty, and i've written my speech.
Its really up to the magistrate, it could go either way. Im thinking its going to go towards the worse direction though,

It really sucks, a suspension won't really effect me. Its everyone else that its going to inconvenience.


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## Bluetongue1 (May 6, 2013)

*Maseface*,
I don’t intend to labour the point but the issues brought up by others regarding your BAC reading are valid. Something is definitely incorrect. I have gone through it several times to ensure accuracy and the amount of alcohol you consumed would give a maximum possible reading of 1.01 g% if added directly to your blood stream, with no time allowed for the liver to break it down. Yet you blew 1.06 g%. 

There are only three possibilities here... 


The breath testing unit was faulty – highly unlikely as I would imagine they are regularly checked and recalibrated. But still a possibility.
You already had a residual amount of alcohol in your body. As you had nothing since breakfast that, that cannot be the case. However, if you did consume something like an “Up and go” drink, it has been reported that these can give a positive alcohol reading on a breathalyser. You’d have to research it if you did. 
You drank more alcohol than you thought. You stated you are certain you only had three 425 mL glasses of full strength beer. (I worked with 5% alcohol.) The only way you could take in more alcohol then is if someone deliberately spiked your drinks. Is this possible?

On your information, you consumed 50.3 g of alcohol [= 5 1/3 standard drinks] and were tested 2½ hours later (1:30 pm start and 4 pm test). A normal functioning liver breaks down about 7.5 g of alcohol per hour, which would be about 18.75 g in that time, leaving about 31.55 g of alcohol in your system. Given 5L of blood in the body that equates to a BAC of 0.063 g%. This does not take into account absorption of alcohol by lean muscle, which would reduce that. Even if you were very small and only had 4L of blood, the BAC reading would be 0.079 g%. These expected readings are way under what you blew.

I would be working on determining why the difference between the breathalyser and the expected outcome. If you have behaved exactly as stated then you have been far more responsible than the breathalyser indicated. Get some advice from legal aide, as suggested. I cannot advise you as to whether it is worth pursing but if it were me, I would be leaving no stone unturned.

If you want to check the calculations, you need to know that BAC is measured in grams of alcohol per 100 mL of blood. Alcohol in beverages is measured in volume as a percentage i.e. number of mL of alcohol in 100 mL of drink. The alcohol is ethanol and 1 mL weighs 0.789 g. I can PM a copy of the full calcs if you decide to look at it.

Good luck, whatever.

Blue


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## Bluetongue1 (May 6, 2013)

I know we all love to hate someone but it disappoints me that there are still some out there with an archaic attitude towards police in general. Some of the crap they have to deal with, you could not blame them for becoming hard nosed. They are the target of people’s anger when they pull them up fordoing the wrong thing. Yet who do we want and expect when our house has been broken into or our car stolen or some thug has assaulted us... etc, etc. If people did the right thing, there would be little need for police.

I can remember driving past a nasty accident one time and the ambulance had just left the scene. We had to slow right down and I watched as a young officer walked away from the tangle of vehicles to a bushy part of the median strip. He then proceeded to heave his heart up. We had to move then but it was enough to bring home the reality that they are just as human as anyone else. It is tough job and I don’t think they get paid enough to do it. 

Blue


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## Ambush (May 7, 2013)

I smell battery acid or smell radiator fluid I have trouble not throwing up. What I have seen will never be forgotten. 
If I could put on film what runs through my mind at times. Maybe people would not drink and drive or maybe have a bit more respect on the roads. Even some sounds I still hear are haunting.


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## Maseface (May 7, 2013)

I think i've found out why the reading i got was higher than it should have been.
I suffer from anxiety and as a result, also acid reflux.
I failed my frist two attempts of blowing into the breath testing unit because i was suffering from acid reflux ( the reason i hadn't eaten all day)
Then as i was looking for answers i came across this.
_
"But GERD can cause alcohol to travel from the stomach back to the throat and 
mouth. When this happens, the DUI suspect blows this "mouth alcohol" (rather 
than alveolar air alcohol) into the breath machine. The machine then provides a 
reading higher, often times dramatically higher, than the DUI suspect’s true 
BAC. A person with a true BAC of .05 can read .20."

"If you are suffering from *Gastroesophogal Reflux Disease (GERD)*, acid reflux or heartburn, the condition may cause a false high reading in breath analysis for blood alcohol content (the BAC test). While a blood test directly measures blood alcohol concentration, the BAC measures the amount of alcohol in the subject’s breath"

"Acid reflux, or gastroesophageal reflux disease, can greatly exacerbate the mouth alcohol problem. The stomach is normally separated from the throat by a valve, but when this valve becomes herniated, there is nothing to stop the liquid contents in the stomach from rising and permeating the esophagus and mouth. The contents—including any alcohol—are then later exhaled into the breathalyzer."

_All of the above were taken from different sources and could possibly explain as to why my reading was abnormally high?
Im going to the doctors ASAP to get my condition in writing.


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## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Maseface said:


> I think i've found out why the reading i got was higher than it should have been.
> I suffer from anxiety and as a result, also acid reflux.
> I failed my frist two attempts of blowing into the breath testing unit because i was suffering from acid reflux ( the reason i hadn't eaten all day)
> Then as i was looking for answers i came across this.
> ...


Wow that is something new to me. I have had really bad reflux from when I was about 19. Hope you are being monitored with that. Both my father and his mum died from stomach cancer that was triggered from acid problems in the oesophagus.


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## Maseface (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Wow that is something new to me. I have had really bad reflux from when I was about 19. Hope you are being monitored with that. Both my father and his mum died from stomach cancer that was triggered from acid problems in the oesophagus.



Damn man that sucks.
I've never gone and had it diagnosed, never needed to try and prove it to anyone else before. 
I usually just chew heaps of quick-ez and it makes it managable.
Now that you've said that im a bit worried because i've been having bowel problems for a while now.


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## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Maseface said:


> Damn man that sucks.
> I've never gone and had it diagnosed, never needed to try and prove it to anyone else before.
> I usually just chew heaps of quick-ez and it makes it managable.
> Now that you've said that im a bit worried because i've been having bowel problems for a while now.


Check it out mate!!!! My dad and his mum had really bad heartburn for years and it was blown off by doctors for a long time, my dad around 20 years ago collapsed at work and was found to have a low blood count due to stomach ulcers and through subsequent test they found cancer. He had a massive operation to remove 1/3 of his stomach and 10cm of his oesophagus, they cut all his cancer out but it took years to recover and went through very big lifestyle changes. He then had monitoring (cameras) every 6 months for years and then was reduced to one a year until recent times where they had gone to every second year. He started to have problems eating recently and was admitted to hospital for tests, he was in there for two weeks before the tests found his cancer had returned, they started radiation this time and he died about a week later, this all happened maybe 4 months ago. The reason I have put all of these details up on a snake forum is to highlight to you the importance of getting tested.


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## Darlyn (May 7, 2013)

Interesting stuff the last few posts. Thanks


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## reptalica (May 7, 2013)

Maseface - just another thing when u appear at court say in Melbourne for example, in the courts we have what's called Legal Aid......the role they play is to assist those that have offended to be represented, pro-bono (free of charge) and what they will do is speak a few words on your behalf.

Well worth it...just depends how busy they are.

Good luck with it.


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## Irbz_27 (May 7, 2013)

reptalica said:


> Maseface - just another thing when u appear at court say in Melbourne for example, in the courts we have what's called Legal Aid......the role they play is to assist those that have offended to be represented, pro-bono (free of charge) and what they will do is speak a few words on your behalf.
> 
> Well worth it...just depends how busy they are.
> 
> Good luck with it.



Not anymore mate... Not for driving offenses. You can chat to them but they won't jump up in front of the magi for you


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## wokka (May 8, 2013)

Irbz_27 said:


> Not anymore mate... Not for driving offenses. You can chat to them but they won't jump up in front of the magi for you


Isn't legal aid means tested and so a fully employed boilermaker would not qualify?
Mase face, It does sound as though there may be a way that you could cast doubt on the accuracy of the breath test. It will probably be more costly to prove than to ware the charge , however it may set precidence for others. Is there a 'Gastric reflux association" who may assist with legal representation or evidence, as it would seem to be an unknown side effect to people effected by this complaint.


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## Wing_Nut (May 8, 2013)

Skeptic said:


> Roughly 5.5 million vehicles registered in NSW. That's roughly $2.2 billion in revenue from green slips. I doubt the cost of injuries caused by car accidents in NSW is that high. Insurance companies aren't charity organisations and only have their profit margins in mind.



I have no doubt the cost of injuries caused by traffic accidents that are covered by MMA would exceed these sorts of figures. Firstly the average 396 fatalities on NSW alone would account for a one off expense in the range of 200 million dollars. For every fatality there are multiple long term rehab and spinal type injuries. The on going cost of rehabilitation for these injuries is astronomical. An example of this is a close friend of mine who was severely injured in a collision with an intoxicated driver. The expected life rehabilitation and on going care will be in excess of 10 million dollars. Given there are considerably more near fatal crashes than fatal crashes the life long liability of a scheme like this is huge and the cost of this type of insurance has premiums the average person could not afford to pay. The cost to the consumer for schemes like this will always cop criticism until you have seen first hand the real cost that is felt by the innocent victims of road trauma. 

Kind regards

Wing_Nut


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## Wilfred (May 8, 2013)

Ask for a section 10 I do not know if they will do it for a driveing afence but it's worth a try


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## Bluetongue1 (May 8, 2013)

Maseface said:


> I think i've found out why the reading i got was higher than it should have been.





Maseface said:


> I suffer from anxiety and as a result, also acid reflux.


That is both good and bad to hear. It does provide a logical explanation without changing the facts as they stand. Ask your GP to refer you to a good gastric specialist for assessment and treatment. Take the articles along to to the specialist and you can request a letter verifying the potential effects of your ailment on a breath test. At that point you can decide whether to involve legal representation. I would expect that this has been used as a defence before but it is the outcomes that are important. I know absolutely nothing about how it all works. They may still hit you. They may cancel this charge on the stipulation you must be blood tested instead of breathalysed in the future. They may even want manually estimate you BAC from what you drank in what time period. I do not know. Only someone with court experience in this area can answer those sorts of questions.

Good luck with getting it treated.
Blue


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## Luvbuz (May 9, 2013)

Maceface, sorry to hear about the reflux condition which may have contributed to your higher than expected reading, but if the instrument used to take the reading and produce the court certificate was a Draegar or similar instrument they refuse inconsistent breath tests. The reason you are made to blow for so long is to take air from the smaller cells in your lungs. Mouth alcohol "floods" the instrument initially and then "lung" air (for want of a simple description) goes through the instrument. As the two will be inconsistent the reading should fail. You would then be asked to sit for twenty minutes to allow the mouth alcohol to dissipate. The instruments are so sensitive that if you "burp" (ie reflux), "Nose breath (like didgeridoo players) or "suck in" instead of blow the instrument shuts down that test. If you are continually unable to produce a specimen for analysis the police would take blood which gives a slightly higher reading anyway. As you seem to have been issued a breath analysis certificate stating your BAC % range either the instrument malfunctioned or the reading was deemed correct. Time for some bucks to hire a traffic expert solicitor maybe?


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## marleehorne (May 14, 2013)

Fully licensed, no prior traffic offences apply for a SECTION 10 dismissal of charges, which means you are admitting guilt but charge or criminal conviction is not recorded. MEANING NO CRIMINAL RECORD. This charge on your criminal record is a pain in the bum it will following you for the next ten years until you can apply to have your record cleared.

You can also ask by way of punishment that your willing to attended a traffic offenders program run by your local PCYC (lawyers will usually ask to adjourn your sentencing hearing to complete this, is about 6 week program). Adjourning may not be ideal for you as you will have no license until you are sentenced.

The judge is hit or miss depending on the time of day and the number of people they have had for PCA (percentage concentrated alcohol) charges.
You should definitely give a statement of regret as you have already mentioned and raise the impact it will have on your financial circumstances.

The judge will take it into account your years of driving and traffic record. Being your first Major offence, the impact it will have on your job it may be ok.

Hiring a lawyer will cost $1500 as a minimum. A lawyer will always tell you “ the penalty is maximum fine of $2200 and or imprisonment for 9 months” 

Multiple offenders don’t get prison time this is just to give you the worst case scenario and make you happy that the result they get you is the best that could have happened.

Your fine will be $1000 or less
What your hoping for is no disqualification period. 

You need to make sure that if you are disqualified from driving, you request the time to start from the date of initial suspension.


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## Maseface (May 22, 2013)

For those still interested.
i went to court today without representation.
Got a section 10, no fine or conviction.
I didn't even bother mentioning the reflux or anything.
I was very well prepared and presented and the judge ruled in my favor.

forgot to mention I was also on the phone at the time.


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## Umbral (May 22, 2013)

Lucky, welcome to the good behavior club. You are welcome to sit next to me and hang your head in shame like the rest of us.


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## sd1981 (May 22, 2013)

Very lucky... Just a word of warning, the likely hood of receiving more than 1 section 10 in your life holds worse odds than winning lotto, or to be more precise, the Wests Tigers (my team) have more chance of winning the Grand Final this season....


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