# My baby Bearded Dragon keeps burrowing under his bark Help?



## 1131035 (Nov 26, 2011)

Hi, my baby bearded dragon who is 6 weeks old continues to burrow under his bark. He burrows so far down that you could not even see him until I move some of the bark to find him/her. Is this a problem, does anyone know why they may do this and what is causing it? I hope someone can help 

Thanks


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## Defective (Nov 26, 2011)

remove the bark as a start....and replace it with Terraturf or newspaper or paper towel.
what are the enclosure temps, hide locations, things for him to climb on, feeding size etc??


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## damian83 (Nov 26, 2011)

mine are near 2yo and randomly do it under branches or bark, your heart jumps thinking there gone


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## HonestPirate (Nov 26, 2011)

They do occasionally like to dig around. though check your temps- it could be that its not getting warm enough especially if you are using a heat mat or heat cord underneath/outside the enclosure... Also if you dont have enough shelter for him/her; it could be that as a young baby he's looking for a little spot to hide and feel less vulnerable.


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## Herpaderpa (Nov 26, 2011)

I had a gorgeous beardie who for a long time would constantly bury himself or sit in the hide all day. He wouldn't bask and refused food when he was like this.

I had to remove all hides. 

He would eat and bask and was happy and active without hides, the second a hide was put back in he would not come out.

He eventually became accustomed to captive life and was fine, I could put the hides back in, but I still never put full hides in, just half hides or fake plants.

I agree with defective... dont leave loose substrate in with this little guy, buy the fake grass from bunnings, I love this stuff. It does get smelly when used with beardies but I used to use litter box sanitiser on it (because of the deodorizing element) and leave it in the sun for a couple of days, rotating two pieces. 
If you want to use a hide, get a fake plant that he can partially hide under but still be seen.

I put this down to survival of the fittest. I think in the wild such guys would have perished, but being captive we are able to keep them alive regardless of their bizarre quirks. Not so many per clutch would make it in the wild... but in our captive breeding just about all hatchies make it regardless of their ability to adapt and survive. 

My guy was a fantastic outgoing lizard without a hide, he was the most outstanding of the bunch... the most colourful, cleanest markings and most handleable.


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## Defective (Nov 26, 2011)

not only that but the possiblities are endless with little ones and eye splinters


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## 1131035 (Nov 26, 2011)

Thank you all for your responses. My dragon does eat and there are no hides besides some plants that provide shade. The thermostat is on 30 and the cool end is at 27. I have another dragon of the same age that lives with him and never burrows. Thanks


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## Defective (Nov 26, 2011)

ok few things there:
1. hot end needs to be hotter and cool end should be a few degrees cooler (Hot:37-38 Cool:24-25)
2 splinters from the bark *MIGHT* come off and get in its eye so its highly recommended you change the substrate.
3 do you have room for another enclosure to put the 2nd dragon in when they are older. 2 males cannot live together, male and female cannot live together maybe possible for 2 females to live together....something to think about.


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## Herpaderpa (Nov 26, 2011)

1131035... All beardies are individuals. Your other one not burying itself doesn't mean anything. Only one of mine was a digger, the others were big fat and lazy and basked most of the day lol
They love to dig and in the wild bury themselves under logs and rocks and things to hide/brumate. Sometimes they do it for fun... sometimes they do it to hide. It becomes a problem when they spend days buried and don't come out, especially if they are sluggish asthough they are brumating through summer. If they skip meals or do not bask this will effect their growth and may contribute to MBD. If he otherwise basks and feeds daily, then everything is fine.

So, if he comes out and basks and feeds properly, then there is probably nothing to worry about. Why is your thermostat at 30degc? 

Defective is also right about the bark. I had bark and my girl got it in her eye causing a bit of an infection. I gave the bark up right away


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## 1131035 (Nov 26, 2011)

the thermostat is at 30 which keeps the hot end at 34 and the cool end at 27 as the thermostat reader is located in the middle of the enclosure. If I do not use bark what should I use as I was told that it is best to replicate their environment rather then using things such as paper


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## Defective (Nov 26, 2011)

Ha! who told you that?? I told you in a previous post what some alternative substrates are and you have clearly just totally ignored my advice...*mutters to self* why do i bother!


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## Herpaderpa (Nov 26, 2011)

Defective said:


> Ha! who told you that?? I told you in a previous post what some alternative substrates are and you have clearly just totally ignored my advice...*mutters to self* why do i bother!



Thats exactly how I felt lol Beardy help threads generally end up frustrating


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## LizardLady (Nov 26, 2011)

1131035 said:


> Hi, my baby bearded dragon who is 6 weeks old continues to burrow under his bark. He burrows so far down that you could not even see him until I move some of the bark to find him/her. Is this a problem, does anyone know why they may do this and what is causing it? I hope someone can help
> 
> Thanks



Hey 1131035!

First things first, any "particulate" substrate for young dragons is NOT recommended - the possibility of impactions is extremely high... If your dragon, when chasing his/her crickets, gets a mouthful of the substrate (which happens often, even as adults), a particulate substrate such as bark, sand etc, is quite possibly going to become a health-issue, as this stuff cannot be digested... PLEASE take this out ASAP... Defective and Herpaderpa have already suggested this, please take note...
Secondly, as others have mentioned previously, the temps in his enclosure don't seem "right" for a growing dragon... I will explain further through one of your other posts...



1131035 said:


> Thank you all for your responses. My dragon does eat and there are no hides besides some plants that provide shade. The thermostat is on 30 and the cool end is at 27. I have another dragon of the same age that lives with him and never burrows. Thanks



Okay, with this post, there are a couple of "issues" going on here... The _*most*_ important is that you have TWO dragons, irrespective of age, in the same enclosure... I could just about guarantee one will be bigger than the other, even though they're the same age... Correct? The bigger one will be the dominant one - first up to the basking site, first in for the food, first in for the hides... This behaviour will stress out the little one (which, I presume, is the one doing all the hiding?) to the point the little one WILL NOT thrive... Please make sure your dragons have separate enclosures, and can't even see one another - this will ensure BOTH dragons get everything they need, with minimal stress involved... This has also been highlighted to you previously by Defective, please take note... Bearded Dragons are solitary animals - they don't "need" company to survive and thrive...
Regarding your temps, again, as highlighted previously by others, you will need a basking site (warm end) at at least 37, with the cool end around 24 or less... Your dragon will thermoregulate him/herself quite comfortably within this range, and still be warm enough to properly digest his/her meals, therefore grow...
Could you please tell us how you are heating your enclosure? Are you using a white "spot" light/globe for basking? Do you have a good quality UV tube? What is the size of the enclosure? (I'm going to work on a process of elimination here, so please bear with me!)...


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## 1131035 (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks, I have a uvb 10.0 and a ceramic heater, the temperatures are correct and I see both self regulating at times (mouth open), when I first got the dragons the dragon not burrowing arm waved as submission and sense then there has never been a problem. They sleep together and both eat together both being feed live food twice a day and a constant plate of veg which they both eat. There food is also coated in calcium powder. They have not fought YET, and the one dragon both of which very similar in size, burrows. This is not happening all the time. There is a small reflection at times on the glass which they both show interest in at times and originally thought this was the reason to the burrowing - trying to get to the dragon on the other side being the reflection. The only reason the dragons were put together was because unfortunately their are conflicting with some sources saying that although they are not social creatures they can be housed together if from a young age and same clutch. They have a large enclosure with plenty of room.


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## ajandj (Nov 27, 2011)

hi ya and welcome. I would definately remove the bark and replace with papertowel. I know it doesn't look natural but it's very practical, easy to clean and isn't going to cause impaction. I would also bump your temps up a little. My thermostat is in the middle of the enclosure and l have mine set at about 34. This brings my hot end to about 39 and my cool end around the28 mark. 
i only had one dragon but l have heard some terrible stories about dragons fighting even when they have been housed together all their lives. Some of the photos l have seen from war wounds have been shocking. I would definately seperate unless you have a huge outdoor pit with plenty of space and hide.
I dust crickets 5 times a week with calcium and dust veg twice a week with vitamins and minerals. Just remember too much calcium is as harmful as not enough. What greens are you feeding? My Yoda loves added flowers and herbs. Goodluck and enjoy


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

Thanks, I feed them boc choy, peas, carrot, baby spinach. I mix them up however as some of these I believe are not good staple e.g. carrot as impaction. Unfortunately when doing my research I have received numerous conflicting advice from the Internet and pet shops and other bearded dragon owners. I will change the substrate but had one question, why does the melbourne zoo use sand in their reptile enclosures?


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## LizardLady (Nov 27, 2011)

1131035 said:


> Thanks, I feed them boc choy, peas, carrot, baby spinach. I mix them up however as some of these I believe are not good staple e.g. carrot as impaction. Unfortunately when doing my research I have received numerous conflicting advice from the Internet and pet shops and other bearded dragon owners. I will change the substrate but had one question, why does the melbourne zoo use sand in their reptile enclosures?



Bok Choy is good; peas are to be fed "rarely" (high Phosphorous content); carrot - "occasional" (too much Vitamin A will contribute to Vitamin A Toxicity); Baby Spinach is "questionable" as it is high in Vitamin A, very high in Oxalates and Goitrogens (binds Calcium)...
PM me for a list of what is good, and what is not!
For what it's worth, you're quite right - there is SO much conflicting information out there, but I can guarantee you, "pet shops" know very little, if anything at all!


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## BigWillieStyles (Nov 27, 2011)

Its not a science, I dont see what all the fuss is about. You have two healthy dragons and one likes to burrow? You havent provided a hide at all. Reptiles dont like open spaces with no where to hide, he is just trying to feel safe.

I find all this talk about impaction from sand pretty hard to swallow.  Bearded Dragons come from an enviornment of sandy conditons and heaps of owners keep them on it with no worries. I feed my animals in plastic tubs anyway as I dont like escapee crickets chirping all night


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## ajandj (Nov 27, 2011)

l would try a few different things with feeding, they love dandelion flowers and leaves (cheap, most people have them in their garden or lawn), nasturtium flowers and leaves, endive is great for everyday. carrot greens, beetroot greens and celery leaves are also really good and l get them for nothing from safeway and my local grocer. I also offer things like rose petals, pansy flowers, lavander, rosemary, rockets, basil and parsley.Crickets are great, just don't leave them in the enclosure when the lights go out and your beardies get cold, crickets will actually bite/eat them. Because they are cold, they don't seem to feel it. I feed crickets using a freezerbag and offer 1 at a time. Takes a few minutes but safer than the alternative. Here is a food list l use and it works well.


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## Defective (Nov 27, 2011)

BigWillieStyles said:


> Its not a science, I dont see what all the fuss is about. You have two healthy dragons and one likes to burrow? You havent provided a hide at all. Reptiles dont like open spaces with no where to hide, he is just trying to feel safe.
> 
> I find all this talk about impaction from sand pretty hard to swallow.  Bearded Dragons come from an enviornment of sandy conditons and heaps of owners keep them on it with no worries. I feed my animals in plastic tubs anyway as I dont like escapee crickets chirping all night



actually its more a clay /compacted soil environment



1131035 said:


> Thanks, I feed them boc choy, peas, carrot, baby spinach. I mix them up however as some of these I believe are not good staple e.g. carrot as impaction. Unfortunately when doing my research I have received numerous conflicting advice from the Internet and pet shops and other bearded dragon owners. I will change the substrate but had one question, why does the melbourne zoo use sand in their reptile enclosures?



Don't trust pet shops AT ALL...THEY SHOULDN"T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO SELL REPTILES!!!! and don't trust google... only ever talk to breeders or ask on a forum of this calibre! people that have been breeding beardies for 15+ years is a good start not first timers....


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## Herpaderpa (Nov 27, 2011)

Again, defective is right. They come from clay/compacted soil environments and the soft silty 'sand' on top is much much finer than any sand available to put into a reptile enclosure. Aside from this... there is absolutely no doubt at all that they die in the wild from impaction as well. So the concept of keeping them on sand just because it seems close to wild habitat and therefor they wont become impacted is just ridiculous. However, if you don't care if your bearded dragon becomes impacted then you can keep them on what ever you like. I guess by this reasoning you should also keep them with predators because their are predators in their natural environment 

Beardies are actually harder to feed than blueys and I don't like that they are always pushed as a first reptile/lizard. Their greens requirements are at times a balancing act and what is readily available in supermarkets is not suitable for beardies. I highly recommend starting your own vegie patch  You can buy things like endive on ebay in seed form, follow the instructions provided for planting and have a fresh source of beardie food in your garden 

Substrate wise... the zoo keeps them on sand because the entire thing is an educational display. Would it be as appealing as a display if it didn't mimic their natural environment? But they are a zoo, not private keepers. Zoos keep animals very differently with a wild concept being the main idea in the majority of zoos.
If you would like to mimic a wild style look you can also use rough textured tiles on the bottom of the enclosure. I used tiles very successfully and they keep nails trim as well. You can get natural rock look tiles in various colours. I personally used slate. I used baby wipes to clean up poops each day as they happened and spot cleaned particularly sloppy ones when they happened... and took tiles out once a fortnight for a thorough clean, but if you install them into the enclosure with grout you can also clean them within the enclosure as you would if they were installed in your house.


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

I appreciate all responses. Once I change substrate do you believe he will stop trying to dig? Is the act of burrowing or digging a major problem?


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## ajandj (Nov 27, 2011)

Herpaderpa - i agree about the food. My daughter (5) and l started a beardie friendly garden a few months back and it's great. We have planted endive, rocket, nasturtiums, pansies, carrots (kids eat the carrots raw from the garden and Yoda gets the greens), same with beetroot, the list goes on - it's great and the kids love going and picking Yoda's food.

1131035 - I've never had the problem because l have only ever used newspaper with papertowl over the top. Yoda hasn't dug as such but has on the occassion decided to crawl and sleep between the newspaper and papertowel. I think if you up your temps a bit, that will encourage your little fella to stay out and about. Just make sure he has a hide so if he wants to get away from the heat, he can.


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## viciousred (Nov 27, 2011)

You might find the uv light is hurting his/there eyes if you don't have a basking light to cut through to excess white light...... Ceramic heat lamps are not great for beardies, they love sun, and like having sun like light to bask under. Thats what i've been told.

Sand is fine once they are adults, but tiny hatchies only have tiny stomachs so in reality it doesn't take much to cause impaction.....


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## Defective (Nov 27, 2011)

1131035 said:


> I appreciate all responses. Once I change substrate do you believe he will stop trying to dig? Is the act of burrowing or digging a major problem?



the fact you have no hides for your beardies is probably part of the problem. Even a partial hide is better than nothing. here is a picture of my baby beardie Norbet's Enclosure







the green stuff is fake turf and is awesome!

its a natural thing for them to dig but yours are doing it to escape the heat as there are no hides available......if threatened they will quite often run into a log if they cannot take on the animal, so talk to Lizard Lady...i highly recommend that she knows her stuff and is no rookie in the game


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

the uv idea is interesting, if I replace the ceramic heater with a basking light, what should I use at night for heat?

Thanks again everyone


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## Defective (Nov 27, 2011)

they don't need night heat. but if you get worried in winter next year you can always put a 7watt heatmat in the enclosure and by then your beardie should be old enough to go onto desert sand which goes in moist and drys compact like the desert and the heat mat can go under the sand and it warms the sand up....thats what i've done with Yoda...but hes the exception, he's very spoilt!

did the picture help you get an idea at all?


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## viciousred (Nov 27, 2011)

Agreed, night heat is not needed at this time of the year, its healthier for them to have a temp drop at night anyway 
Do you have plenty of branches as well? when mine were babies they spent there days on branches and nights in hides.


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

The pictures was great thanks, what is the best temperature for night time? I do have plenty of spots for them to climb. I will upload a picture and you can point out what you think. Thanks


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## viciousred (Nov 27, 2011)

Where are you located? 
As long as your room temp doesnt go bellow 18-20 they will be fine without heat at night 
Another reason hides are a must is that it keeps them warmer longer instead of just lying on the bottom of a tank. Once they get all toasty warm and go into there hides for the night, they will stay warmer longer


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

Yeah I have got a hide now, and I live in Melbourne so it should be fine without heat


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## ajandj (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm in LaTrobe Valley - couple of hours east of the city. I don't use any heating at night as my house really doesn't get below between 16-18 degree's. Even in the colder months because of the heating in the house, l still don't run heat at night.


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## 1131035 (Nov 27, 2011)

Great thanks

Hi, just had another question, what do you all think about baby puree? I have given to my dragons once or twice before due to recommendation and they seem to love it

Hi, thanks for list it is very handy and detailed. I had one question, the small round green peas that you can buy in frozen bags at the supermarket what do they come under on the list. I noticed there were two types of peas one rare and one occasional. Thanks again


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## Defective (Nov 28, 2011)

for safety sake...just don't give it peas...and as for baby food, that should only be used as a last resource if not eating anything at all which most do go through a patch of. 6wk old beardies should have calcium every day and a multivit 5-6 times a week so nearly every day.

the puree gets them hooked like candy and then they are harder to feed crix and salad to


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## 1131035 (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks, I now know that it is the uvb globe that is causing all the problems. I purchased a screw in globe uvb 10.0 and it is too bright and I am now after a uvb tube. I have to find a fitting first though, any suggestions?
Thank you to everybody who have helped, I have learnt a lot!


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## Defective (Nov 28, 2011)

depends on your enclosure...glass with mesh top you can use an aqua one fluro box but if wood then hardware stores like bunnings should have single batton fluro fixtures otherwise give reptile stores a go...petshops will just sell the fluro not the fixture


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## ajandj (Nov 28, 2011)

i ended up going to lawrence and hanson (local electrical retailer/wholesaler). I found that the pet shop was really expensive. I have a wodden enclosure so it had to be mounted. Pet stock have the fixutre and the globes but when l needed mione, they were out of stock.
1131035 - the peas you have in the freezer would be just green - as defective says, l would just leave them out. There are so may healthier things to select from


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## Herpaderpa (Nov 28, 2011)

1131035 a fantastic staple to feed with your greens if you are looking for something easy is squash. Pretty much all woolies stores have it, you can cut it into little strips raw or softened (left in boiling water for a few minutes). Some woolies also sell endive.


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## KaotikJezta (Nov 28, 2011)

BigWillieStyles said:


> Its not a science, I dont see what all the fuss is about. You have two healthy dragons and one likes to burrow? You havent provided a hide at all. Reptiles dont like open spaces with no where to hide, he is just trying to feel safe.
> 
> I find all this talk about impaction from sand pretty hard to swallow.  Bearded Dragons come from an enviornment of sandy conditons and heaps of owners keep them on it with no worries. I feed my animals in plastic tubs anyway as I dont like escapee crickets chirping all night



I agree, I have kept beardies on and off for 12 years now and never had a problem with sand and have never fed them out of their enclosure. Maybe with tiny ones for convenience it may be easier to use a non particulate substrate, but as I said, I have never had a problem with adults or hatchies on sand. Bark on the other hand could cause problems.


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## 1131035 (Nov 28, 2011)

Squash sounds good, what about seeds do they have any and if so do I need to remove them?

Thanks


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## viciousred (Nov 28, 2011)

coil or tube, you will still get problems if you dont have a basking light to cut through it. And 10% is what they need. 5 wont cut it, uv needs to be a maximum of i think 6-8 inchs away from the dragons basking spot for the uvb to have effectivness, taking them out in the sun for 30 mins a few times a week is a good idea also.


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## ajandj (Nov 28, 2011)

Herpaderpa said:


> 1131035 a fantastic staple to feed with your greens if you are looking for something easy is squash. Pretty much all woolies stores have it, you can cut it into little strips raw or softened (left in boiling water for a few minutes). Some woolies also sell endive.


ok this is were i get confused. Is the squash you are talking about, butternut pumpkin?


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## black_headed_mon (Nov 28, 2011)

ajandj said:


> ok this is were i get confused. Is the squash you are talking about, butternut pumpkin?



no it is squash,bright yellow!!!1/10th the size of a small pumpkin lol


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## ajandj (Nov 29, 2011)

ok, like this? Sorry but l get confussed sometimes cause the americans call butternut pumpkin - squash.. just had to check


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## 1131035 (Nov 29, 2011)

Yeah, does the yellow squash have seeds, and if so do I need to remove them?


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## Defective (Nov 29, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> I agree, I have kept beardies on and off for 12 years now and never had a problem with sand and have never fed them out of their enclosure. Maybe with tiny ones for convenience it may be easier to use a non particulate substrate, but as I said, I have never had a problem with adults or hatchies on sand. Bark on the other hand could cause problems.



maybe it was the type of sand idk but yoda big mother of a boy of mine 2ft was on fine grain sand....nearly died....back on compact red desert sand after 2 weeks of being in a 2ftx2ftx2ft hospital enclosure just laying there.....and baths everyday because of severe impaction got him back. so fine grain stuff is a big NO NO


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## black_headed_mon (Nov 29, 2011)

ajandj said:


> ok, like this? Sorry but l get confussed sometimes cause the americans call butternut pumpkin - squash.. just had to check



yep,better to be safe than sorry i guess


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## 1131035 (Nov 29, 2011)

file:///Users/Tim/Pictures/Dragons/P1100419.JPG

You will be happy to know that I have found great bulk watercress and endive at safeway/woolworths. This will now be used as my babies staple. They also have a hide and a greater climbing basking spot. They seem to do be doing well, fingers crossed. I am planning on putting up pictures. 

Besides from this does anyone mist their dragons? I saw chris humphries Wild life dvd and he mists his dragons often

Thanks


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