# Consequences for Killing Protected Animals



## Lewi_11 (Aug 31, 2015)

Hey guys

Looking for some feedback and thoughts. (Get comfortable, could be a long one!)

I'm really frustrated by the lack of understanding of our native snakes, and the whole 'Grab the Shovel' mentality. This afternoon, I found myself in a rather heated discussion on the Facebook.
The status (paraphrased) went something along the lines of... _'My horses we're acting strange today, keeping me away from a spot in the paddock. When I looked over there I saw a Red Bellied Black Snake.' _This was followed by the words (Direct Quote this time) "Needless to say I took care of the snake" Followed by multiple Gun emoji/emoticons.

Disgusted by the post, I couldn't help but voice my opinion on the matter.
A few years ago I went to school with this Individual, fully aware that they're employed as a vet nurse, AND THEY'RE A LICENSED REPTILE KEEPER THAT BREEDS BEARDIES!
My comment read: "A vet nurse that kills protected native animals. How ironic."

The attached pictures are the conversation that followed. (No profile pics and the other persons name is removed, wouldn't want to be rude)
Plus another comment made on the post, but not in reply to me, about "the shovel" that my mate screen-shotted after I was blocked.

I will admit I got a tad heated, but with good reason I think and in my anger, I probably could've phrased some things better or perhaps even omitted parts. Rgardless, my temper... or lack of and the things I wrote, is not what I wish to discuss.

So, the questions I pose are;
Despite the fact that the penalties (below) for such actions are clearly stated in the National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974 (Part 7 Section 98, for anyone that is wondering), has anybody ever been prosecuted? 

Maximum penalty:
​(a) 100 penalty units and, in a case where protected fauna is harmed, an additional 10 penalty units in respect of each animal that is harmed, or​(b) imprisonment for 6 months,​or both. 

​
Why is it, that despite these thing happening literally everyday, NPWS doesn't crack down on these offenders? The reality is, if people were made examples of (I don't necessarily mean imprisonment, perhaps for repeat offenders) the word would spread that it is not acceptable behavior to kill native animals.


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Aug 31, 2015)

I'm with you mate it's disgusting...... My mum owns horses and has no issues with red bellies she thinks they keep the eastern browns away. any way point is she leaves them be and has never had an issue.


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## Lewi_11 (Aug 31, 2015)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> I'm with you mate it's disgusting...... My mum owns horses and has no issues with red bellies she thinks they keep the eastern browns away. any way point is she leaves them be and has never had an issue.


Good to hear.

Funny thing about it mate, is the fact that they were going on about how horribly deadly red belly bites are to horses... 
Now, I'm off the assumption that considering there are no cases in recorded history where a red belly has killed a person, that there's quite the chance that a red belly bite to a horse would be less severe than a human. Horses after all, do have much more body mass...


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## kingofnobbys (Aug 31, 2015)

People wonder why I don't like people and do my best to avoid dealing with them - people are down right ignorant and abysmally stupid in the main and downright nasty and untrustworthy. Give me a lizard or even a dog any day - much better company.

The response = moronic and disgusting.


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## Kransky (Aug 31, 2015)

For a vet nurse to say that the snake was dealt with and to add those emotes is just wrong. Red bellies (and pretty much every other snake) are so placid and tend to move on if they have the chance to (horses and people are not their food) The fool should be named and shamed so we can harass him/her on FB.


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## Raymonde (Sep 1, 2015)

So did she actually kill the snake? I know it was implied or at least sounded like it but wasn't actually said. 

It's so sad when people kill them in ignorance. The problem is that it is very rare for anyone to get charged over killing a snake, even if it turned out to be a harmless python, as long as they say they "felt" threatened there is nothing anyone else can do about it.... the laws suck, if they were more enforceable or we educated people better we might have less 'grab the shovel mentality'. All we can really do is try to educate the next generation to not be so quick to judge snakes as evil


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## HiramAbiff (Sep 1, 2015)

Unfortunately the people who are meant to implement the fines and punishments are useless. Their time is spent annoying the licensed keepers who have an active interest in native protected animals to follow their own guidelines on the killing of said species.

The day someone is fined for killing a protected animal is the day I'll drop dead of surprise.


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## Wally (Sep 1, 2015)

HiramAbiff said:


> Their time is spent annoying the licensed keepers who have an active interest in native protected animals to follow their own guidelines on the killing of said species.



I'd actually argue the opposite here in Victoria. Pay your licence fee yearly and fill in your returns and you don't hear a peep out of DPI.


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## HiramAbiff (Sep 2, 2015)

Wally said:


> I'd actually argue the opposite here in Victoria. Pay your licence fee yearly and fill in your returns and you don't hear a peep out of DPI.


I think you missed my point, they have field officers whose only job is to inspect people's collections and go through their paperwork. None whose sole purpose is to investigate the harming of protected wildlife.

Basically you can hit a snake with a shovel and get away unscathed but if you take an animal from the wild and care for it you're up the creek.


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## Wally (Sep 2, 2015)

HiramAbiff said:


> I think you missed my point, they have field officers whose only job is to inspect people's collections and go through their paperwork. None whose sole purpose is to investigate the harming of protected wildlife.
> 
> Basically you can hit a snake with a shovel and get away unscathed but if you take an animal from the wild and care for it you're up the creek.



Perhaps it is more that I didn't make my point clear. I'm suggesting that if you comply with your licence obligations here in Victoria, you will not be "annoyed" as you have suggested.


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## HiramAbiff (Sep 3, 2015)

Wally said:


> Perhaps it is more that I didn't make my point clear. I'm suggesting that if you comply with your licence obligations here in Victoria, you will not be "annoyed" as you have suggested.


I'm guessing you don't keep elapids or anything considered rare?


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## BredliFreak (Sep 4, 2015)

HiramAbiff said:


> I think you missed my point, they have field officers whose only job is to inspect people's collections and go through their paperwork. None whose sole purpose is to investigate the harming of protected wildlife.
> 
> Basically you can hit a snake with a shovel and get away unscathed but if you take an animal from the wild and care for it you're up the creek.



I know what you mean, personally I'm shocked that our wildlife authorities don't do as much as they should. You can even get away with owning exotics if you're not too ignorant. Then they make big deals about licensing. It's frustrating. 

Another thing I was listening to (at an ACTHA meeting) was that Australia (or at least NSW) doesn't have a reptile and amphibian conservation plan. There is not enough focus on herpetofauna which is annoying. They didn't even put in Cogger's plan which was suggested AGES ago. We really need to get the authorities to fix this, as we have little knowledge about a lot of our herps and now their populations are dwindling, like the Grassland Earless Dragon (Tympanocryptis pinguicolla).

Also, I'm annoyed at the *******s who kill our native animals, or any animals (apart from ferals). It's funny how the biggest reason Australia is known for our beautiful and unique wildlife yet we are destroying their homes and exterminating them everyday. I find it hard to believe that people think they are so 'superior' to animals so they can kill them off for whatever reason they want. Personally, I don't understand why there aren't people out there who kill humans for sport and I'm almost annoyed enough to start.

I'm sorry if this made no sense, maybe I'll edit this later to make more sense

End rant.

Bredli


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## NicG (Sep 4, 2015)

This might sound really ignorant, but given that snake antivenom is derived using horses, do horses have any kind of in-built natural immunity to a 'typical' snakebite?


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Sep 4, 2015)

NicG said:


> This might sound really ignorant, but given that snake antivenom is derived using horses, do horses have any kind of in-built natural immunity to a 'typical' snakebite?



According to Equine vets red belly's rarely cause fatality's it's the browns taipans and tigers that will cause death and that's because the bite is usually to the nose/face which is a high blood flow area. Not only that it's not noticed by the owner till it's too late in most cases.


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## kittybelle (Sep 9, 2015)

I agree with you. I think offenders should most definitely receive some sort of punishment. People always seem to get away with it and it's wrong. What really gets me are apparent friends of snake owners that say to them "get the shovel!". That's someone's pet! Why would anyone think that kind of comment/behaviour is okay? 
I think everyone needs to be more educated about all of the native wildlife and that the appropriate authorities should actually take action against offenders instead of ignoring it. 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## ronhalling (Sep 10, 2015)

> Another thing I was listening to (at an ACTHA meeting) was that Australia (or at least NSW) doesn't have a reptile and amphibian conservation plan. There is not enough focus on herpetofauna which is annoying. They didn't even put in Cogger's plan which was suggested AGES ago. We really need to get the authorities to fix this, as we have little knowledge about a lot of our herps and now their populations are dwindling, like the Grassland Earless Dragon (Tympanocryptis pinguicolla).



If you look at the licensing system retrospectively is this not a conservation plan of sorts, by putting the animals into the hands of licensed collectors and fanciers is this not helping to keep the populations of Reptiles and Amphibians at a healthy level, by making these people pay a premium on their licenses i feel the animals will be looked after better with the implied threat of a random inspection than just letting people collect and keep willy nilly.

Back to the point of this thread, it is going to take a very long time before the grab the shovel mentality disappears, with all the social media hype and crap seen on TV people are never going to be able to rid themselves of a fear that is being compounded every way they look, all we can do as serious Reptile people is just keep educating the uneducated and think at least i am doing something. ......................Ron


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