# Keeping a Varanus acanthurus in outdoor enclosure with supplemental heating (Sydney)



## mcloughlin2 (Sep 11, 2013)

A similar thread to another posted but I didn't want to hijack the other one.

Has anyone kept ackies outside in Western Sydney year round with supplemental heating? I'm not talking a pit, more an enclosure similar to a rabbit hutch off the ground. So excessive moisture isn't an issue and no one better tell me humidity is too high as I can't see how it will be any higher then it will be in an enclosure in a well ventilated room (like a loungeroom). 

Reason I ask is I don't like keeping reptiles inside anymore due to smell and excessive heat during summer with all the heat lamps. I don't see any issues with it but would be good to get confirmation.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 11, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> A similar thread to another posted but I didn't want to hijack the other one.
> 
> Has anyone kept ackies outside in Western Sydney year round with supplemental heating? I'm not talking a pit, more an enclosure similar to a rabbit hutch off the ground. So excessive moisture isn't an issue and no one better tell me humidity is too high as I can't see how it will be any higher then it will be in an enclosure in a well ventilated room (like a loungeroom).
> 
> Reason I ask is I don't like keeping reptiles inside anymore due to smell and excessive heat during summer with all the heat lamps. I don't see any issues with it but would be good to get confirmation.



I would have thought the amount of rain we get may create health issues.


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## mcloughlin2 (Sep 11, 2013)

But with 1/3 the enclosure an enclosed box and a purpose built cover to go on the top during extended rainfall I can't see how, although I do not have prior experiance with them? The enclosure has been built with drainage in mind, water will literally flow off as quick as it falls.


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## Stevo2 (Sep 11, 2013)

I would have thought that the increased humidity than that of their natural habitat would equal a heightened risk of RI. They dont naturally occur there for a reason.

Have you measured and compared the humidity levels between outside and in an indoor enclosed habitat? 

A way around the smell is to clean more often. 

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## Grogshla (Sep 11, 2013)

if its too much hassle I wouldn't bother to be honest. You could do it but it would take some custom work to make a good pit with shelter.


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## SteveNT (Sep 11, 2013)

There are plenty of accies in the Kalkaringi region and that is subject to typical Top End conditions, 6 cool dry months and 6 of Wet season, 100% humidity and heavy rain daily. They seem to do fine. The temps would be my concern.


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## Stevo2 (Sep 11, 2013)

SteveNT said:


> There are plenty of accies in the Kalkaringi region and that is subject to typical Top End conditions, 6 cool dry months and 6 of Wet season, 100% humidity and heavy rain daily. They seem to do fine. The temps would be my concern.



Good to know, cheers 

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## champagne (Sep 11, 2013)

I think temps would be an issues but give it a go! just make sure you keep a close eye on them and I would have an enclosure inside set up just in case it wasn't working

- - - Updated - - -

Also id go more on the lines of a pit with insulated hide boxes


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 11, 2013)

I'd be more concerned with humidity as Ackies are essentially a dry land adapted species. I know Shinglebacks suffer under humid coastal conditions. Though you can get Ackies in coastal areas in northern Oz, you'd have to be familiar with your particular Ackies locale to be on the safe side...IMO.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 11, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> But with 1/3 the enclosure an enclosed box and a purpose built cover to go on the top during extended rainfall I can't see how, although I do not have prior experiance with them? The enclosure has been built with drainage in mind, water will literally flow off as quick as it falls.



That wont stop the humidity in the air.


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## mcloughlin2 (Sep 12, 2013)

> Originally Posted by *Stevo2*
> 
> I would have thought that the increased humidity than that of their natural habitat would equal a heightened risk of RI. They dont naturally occur there for a reason.
> 
> ...



I understand your line of thinking but I come from a different angle. Having looked at some climate data for other inland/arid climates and comparing that to Sydney. Aside from some differing humidity levels the main difference is the fact that Sydney tends to get colder faster and takes longer to warm up. Temperatures are usually within comparable range of each other, although summer peak temperatures are obviously hotter in arid regions. This is where my idea of supplemental heating comes into play. I struggle to see how humidity will be their downfall, providing they have a warm and dry area to retreat to.

I have measured some humdity levels in the past, nothing recently. Levels were often the same in the reptile one style enclosures and could be either higher or lower in your typical melamine enclosure depending on water source. Yes cleaning frequently is something I do, this isn't practical though when your talking large skinks (which is what I keep now). Which don't just go once a week, or at the same time and when they do it stinks. 



> if its too much hassle I wouldn't bother to be honest. You could do it but it would take some custom work to make a good pit with shelter.



Being able to keep them outside means the difference between me keeping them or not keeping them. The enclosure has already been designed and built by myself so no issues there. It's actually quite easy.



> There are plenty of accies in the Kalkaringi region and that is subject to typical Top End conditions, 6 cool dry months and 6 of Wet season, 100% humidity and heavy rain daily. They seem to do fine. The temps would be my concern.



Thanks, exactly the sort of information I was after! I will check out some climate data to see how off the temps are.


> I think temps would be an issues but give it a go! just make sure you keep a close eye on them and I would have an enclosure inside set up just in case it wasn't working
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Also id go more on the lines of a pit with insulated hide boxes



Yeah the idea is the 1/3 of the enclosure which is covered will have the heat lamp in there providing a warm and dry hide. 



> I'd be more concerned with humidity as Ackies are essentially a dry land adapted species. I know Shinglebacks suffer under humid coastal conditions. Though you can get Ackies in coastal areas in northern Oz, you'd have to be familiar with your particular Ackies locale to be on the safe side...IMO.



I'm curious, have you yourself or anyone you personally know kept shinglebacks and found them to suffer from RI when kept in Sydney in enclosures which are warm and dry? Most cases I've seen or heard of have been when people keep them in typical outdoor pits. Which are usually just areas of ground with a fence around it, which lacks proper drainage and often don't have an area which will stay completely dry in torrential rain (like the underground pipes/bunkers which are commonly used). 



> That wont stop the humidity in the air.



No it won't but you said you thought the higher amount of rain Sydney gets would be a problem, not humidity lol.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm curious, have you yourself or anyone you personally know kept shinglebacks and found them to suffer from RI when kept in Sydney in enclosures which are warm and dry? Most cases I've seen or heard of have been when people keep them in typical outdoor pits. Which are usually just areas of ground with a fence around it, which lacks proper drainage and often don't have an area which will stay completely dry in torrential rain (like the underground pipes/bunkers which are commonly used). 


I've personally kept Shinglebacks from the Grampians (Western Vic) outdoors in Melbourne and had all die within months due to RI's. This was years ago, before reptile licencing and no amount of dry retreats/ heat offered any relief...very tragic outcome. Why not just keep the Ackies indoors where you know they'll be fine?


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## mcloughlin2 (Sep 12, 2013)

As said, out of personal choice I want to avoid keeping reptiles indoors. So I'm thinking outside the box to see if I can push the limits (without negatively impacting on the reptiles health). I appreciate your input, especially regarding the shinglebacks.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 12, 2013)

What about "Sunning enclosures"? I do this with my elapids over the warmer months with good results.

I also know someone who kept a Perentie outdoors in Canberra that suffered RI's then tragically froze to death over winter, despite being offered a warm, insulated retreat. Many tropical/ desert herps don't seem to have the natural instinct that local cooler climate species aquire to avoid hazardous weather.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 12, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> No it won't but you said you thought the higher amount of rain Sydney gets would be a problem, not humidity lol.



The issue with the amount of rain is the dampness and humidity it causes, I thought that would be obvious.



I am wondering why you bothered posting this thread if you had already made your mind up?


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## AirCooled (Sep 12, 2013)

imported_Varanus said:


> I'd be more concerned with humidity as Ackies are essentially a dry land adapted species. I know Shinglebacks suffer under humid coastal conditions. Though you can get Ackies in coastal areas in northern Oz, you'd have to be familiar with your particular Ackies locale to be on the safe side...IMO.


mcloughlin2 as already stated that ackies might not be suitable, have you researched anything else that would cope better outside? Or can anyone post any alternatives to consider


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 12, 2013)

Suitable lizards for outdoor enclosures in the Greater Sydney area include:
Lacies
Eastern Beardies
Jackys
Heath Dragons
Water Dragons
Cunninghams
Eastern Bluetongues
Eastern Water Skinks
Land Mullets

There are a bunch more but that list should give you a decent idea.


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## champagne (Sep 13, 2013)

Deadpan said:


> mcloughlin2 as already stated that ackies might not be suitable, have you researched anything else that would cope better outside? Or can anyone post any alternatives to consider


 "might not be suitable"
Has anyone tried and failed to keep ackies outside in western Sydney? Then how does anyone know they won't thrive? I know a guy keeping native green tree pythons outside all year round on the central coast queensland, that are thriving and breed every year but if someone posted a thread asking this the "experts" would say its not possible... Old world thinking. 

Setup up an enclosure inside just in case they can't thrive outside in your area and give it a go but keep a very close eye on them. Then if it does or doesn't work post it on here but be prepared to still be told it doesn't work by the experts tho


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## fishbot (Sep 13, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> "might not be suitable"
> Has anyone tried and failed to keep ackies outside in western Sydney? Then how does anyone know they won't thrive? I know a guy keeping native green tree pythons outside all year round on the central coast queensland, that are thriving and breed every year but if someone posted a thread asking this the "experts" would say its not possible... Old world thinking.
> 
> Setup up an enclosure inside just in case they can't thrive outside in your area and give it a go but keep a very close eye on them. Then if it does or doesn't work post it on here but be prepared to still be told it doesn't work by the experts tho



Exceptions (such as Green Tree Pythons outside of normal range) don’t prove or disprove rules, they’re just exceptions. 

You’re riding a fine line between experimental husbandry and animal cruelty when you suggest that any animal should be tried under any circumstances. It’s good to promote discussion but your suggestion that experimentation should take preference to further research is a little odd.


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## champagne (Sep 13, 2013)

fishbot said:


> Exceptions (such as Green Tree Pythons outside of normal range) don’t prove or disprove rules, they’re just exceptions.
> 
> You’re riding a fine line between experimental husbandry and animal cruelty when you suggest that any animal should be tried under any circumstances. It’s good to promote discussion but your suggestion that experimentation should take preference to further research is a little odd.


Really? It has already been said that ackies are found in area that do have high humidity similar to western Sydney. I would doubt that people keeping this locality of ackie would be keeping it any different to other localities. Do people that have a vic locality of Lacie keep them different to a North Queensland locality? Keep googling mate....


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## fishbot (Sep 13, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> Really? It has already been said that ackies are found in area that do have high humidity similar to western Sydney. I would doubt that people keeping this locality of ackie would be keeping it any different to other localities. Do people that have a vic locality of Lacie keep them different to a North Queensland locality? Keep googling mate....



I'm not questioning the possibility of “animal X living in environment Y”, I'm questioning your logic. You seem to think that because something is theoretically possible, that it's fact; that's not how the real world works.

You can’t make a determination based on a single factor such as humidity. To do this would discredit Darwin’s theory of evolution, all current theories on ecology and generally disprove science in general. You can certainly discuss the idea, but to suggest it as certain is misleading and false.


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## champagne (Sep 13, 2013)

fishbot said:


> I'm not questioning the possibility of “animal X living in environment Y”, I'm questioning your logic. You seem to think that because something is theoretically possible, that it's fact; that's not how the real world works.
> 
> You can’t make a determination based on a single factor such as humidity. To do this would discredit Darwin’s theory of evolution, all current theories on ecology and generally disprove science in general. You can certainly discuss the idea, but to suggest it as certain is misleading and false.



I'm not basing my opinion on a single factor but on experience first hand (not google) of reptiles being kept successfully outside in localities that they are not found in in the wild. Sometime an animal can thrive in a different locality but the reason they aren't found in this area is because there are unsuitable conditions/ natural barriers that prevent them from getting there. People have kept ackies in pits in Brisbane with no problem so I believe the humidity isn't a problem


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## Blinky (Sep 13, 2013)

Yes Ackies can be kept outdoors. Jesus still same old APS.


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## mcloughlin2 (Sep 13, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> The issue with the amount of rain is the dampness and humidity it causes, I thought that would be obvious.
> 
> I am wondering why you bothered posting this thread if you had already made your mind up?



I figured you meant the high levels of rain which yes does cause dampness could be an issue, which is why I described the enclosure design so you would see that isnt a problem. Steve has said they are found in areas with 100% humidity, so wouldn't that suggest to you that temperates are the problem? Hence why I was curious regarding supplemental heating. 

I am wondering why you bother commenting in a thread when you don't have experiance keeping ackies outside and don't appear to know much about there requirements outside of what the general forum consensus is.



> Has anyone tried and failed to keep ackies outside in western Sydney? Then how does anyone know they won't thrive? I know a guy keeping native green tree pythons outside all year round on the central coast queensland, that are thriving and breed every year but if someone posted a thread asking this the "experts" would say its not possible... Old world thinking.



That's why I'm looking into it, I agree with your way of thinking. There's such a strong pack mentality on forums like APS that as soon as someone reads something a so called APS "expert" says it becomes gospel and anything contrary to that opinion is completely impossible.

I think the biggest issue is overcoming the temperatures. I looked at climate data for Kalkaringi and temperatures are already nearing 40c during the day. So I would need to provide some fairly significant heating for it to be plausible. 



> mcloughlin2 as already stated that ackies might not be suitable, have you researched anything else that would cope better outside? Or can anyone post any alternatives to consider



Yes I have, to throw fuel on the fire most other species are from areas which are over the great dividing range, so typically from arid environments. However plenty of research and experimenting will be taking place before hand and there will be fall back plans if they look like they are not thriving. I already keep a few local species outside but want to push the boundaries.


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## phatty (Sep 13, 2013)

I had my ackies in an out door pit in Darwin I used to hose the pit down every now and then they not saying it is right 

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## GeckoJosh (Sep 13, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> I
> I am wondering why you bother commenting in a thread when you don't have experiance keeping ackies outside and don't appear to know much about there requirements outside of what the general forum consensus is.



I am only trying to help.


Have you thought about installing a shed with installation to house your reptiles? Although that would also require some sort of cooling during summer.


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## mcloughlin2 (Sep 13, 2013)

The thought has crossed my mind and it's something I might look into more especially if I keep heading towards the "non Sydney" species like I have been!


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