# Alternative Reptile Care



## longqi (Aug 10, 2011)

Dont get me wrong about this
Good reptile vets are worth their weight in gold
But sometimes they cannot be contacted or an emergency situation crops up

What can be done then??
For most reptile medical problems, as with most human medical problems there are often natural alternatives
Because of my location I have had to learn a lot of these and use them

I didnt invent most of these cures but have tried them with varying amounts of success
The level of success ranges from 'not much difference' to 'oh wow'

If anyone is interested I can put together a few of the things I know work very well and drop them in here


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 10, 2011)

Yer extra ideas are always good.


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## splat868 (Aug 10, 2011)

Hey longqi,

Would love to see you ideas.

thanks


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## Twitch_80 (Aug 10, 2011)

I think thats a great idea.


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## thexbluexfairy (Aug 10, 2011)

I would love to hear about it. anything that is new and could help in a situation is always valuable.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 10, 2011)

A home 1st aid kit for reptiles is a great thing to have,
Ideas for the contents of such a kit??


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 10, 2011)

Bloody longqi comes on here gives us a teaser then logs out. Lol looking forward to hearing them


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## feathergrass (Aug 10, 2011)

a first aid kit for snakes and lizards would be kinda cool and helpful if vets arent open or away or something


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## sandman1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Bring it on longqi . Anything that can help is always a good thing


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## cement (Aug 10, 2011)

ssssnakeman said:


> A home 1st aid kit for reptiles is a great thing to have,
> Ideas for the contents of such a kit??



Betadine (spray on)
tubes
tweezers
water bottle
tissues/paper towel
sharp scissors
hammer
antiseptic hand wash
Bandages for the human who loses control!

Need much more then this and you probably need a vet.


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## shellfisch (Aug 10, 2011)

cement said:


> Betadine (spray on)
> tubes
> tweezers
> water bottle
> ...



Ok, I'll bite. What's the hammer for?

Or maybe I don't want to know...


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 10, 2011)

What's the hammer for? That's how I fix stuff at work not the herp room


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 10, 2011)

*I borrowed this..

The Basics*
Most of this is fairly straight forward. I prefer to do things as sterile as possible but it is a must when treating open wounds. 



Sterile and non sterile gloves
Scissors
Tweezers
Thermometer - for checking vivarium temperatures.
Probes
Tapes
Bandages
Gauze
Clingfilm - for burns, after applying flamazine cream clingfilm can be secured in place.
Cotton wool & Cotton buds





*Extra Basics*
These are a little more specialised. If you need to give antibiotics (only under veterinary supervision) you will need sterile equipment, always use a new syringe and needle. 



Stethoscope
Forceps (different kinds) - removing retained eye caps.
Various size sterile syringes- injecting, tube feeding, flushing wounds.
Various size sterile needles - injecting
Sterile Swabs
Scalpel blades & Stitch cutters
Tick Remover
*Ointments & Solutions*

KY Jelly - probing, softening retained skin




Povidone Iodine Solution - skin cleaner
Hibiscrub - skin cleaner (milder than above)
Alcohol Hand Gel - sterilising hands between animals
F10 - nebulising, disinfectant
Eye and Skin Ointment - minor wounds
Eye Drops/Vicotears - retained eye caps
Mayuka Honey - wound treatment
Euculiptus oil - can be used for alternative treatment of respiratory infections.
Vasaline - softening retained skin, protecting wounds
Spirit - skin cleaner, cleaning equiment
*Nutritional Support* 



Poweraid or Rehydration Powder - used for rehydration, usually the reptile is bathed in a diluted solution. Poweraid is readily available. Royal Canine offer an electrolyte powdered solution that works in the same manner.Carnivore Vitamin Paste
Repti-boost - probiotic combination of bacteria, enzymes, electrolytes and vitamins
Avipro Plus - prebiotic and probiotic blend enhanced with vitamins A, C & E, useful for animals undergoing veterinary treatment as it boosts the immune system
Zo-Cal D - Liquid Calcium and D3, used for treatment of nutritional hyperparathyroidism (MBD)
Critical Care Formula - emergency feeding of ANY SPECIES
Emeraid - Full nutritional support for the long term management of none feeding animals.
*Other*





Frontline spray - Mite treatment
Panacur/Drontal - Worming treatment
ARDAP - Mite treatment
Nebulizer - RI treatment
*Specialised *
These can only be obtained from a veterinary practice and should not be used without the direction of a suitably qualified vet. 



Fluid - Saline/Hartmans/Glucose Saline - Nutritional support, nebuslising, wound cleaning
Flamazine - wounds, burns
Antibiotics - Fortum/Amakin/Marbocyl
Metacam - anti-inflamatory


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## longqi (Aug 10, 2011)

Pretty good start here

Probably the most under-utilised one anywhere on those lists is PowerAde
AWESOME STUFF
It contains all kinds of goodies that work better on reptiles than they do on people
For rehydrating snakes there is nothing better
AND
Its a great stimulant for fussy or non feeders

If we get in crook snakes that is the first thing we do
We dilute it 1 water to 3 Powerade for bathing but if they are in a bad way also syringe some straight down their throats
With the bathing I just put slitherer in a click clack [see they can be useful] and have the liquid about 2c above normal viv temperatures for that type of snake
Keep an eye on it and remove it after about 10 minutes into a damp tea towel etc for a few hours
Within 24hrs the slitherer will be fine and active
The results are really good especially for mummy snakes after laying and hatching
Ive mostly used this on snakes and not so often on lizards
But I have used it on Comb Dragons to great effect too
Combs are very similar to Boyds being a bit fussy and tricky to get healthy and feeding

Now I recently had a problem that thankfully was fixed
One suggestion made was Cuttlefish bone
Subsequently have played with this on a couple of chondros and retics with Stomasis
Stomasis is both nasty and just the final evidence of another hidden problem
Not easy to cure and often results in mouth operations to remove infected gums etc etc
I syringed one chondro and one retic with powdered cuttlefish bone [stuff budgies play with]
then also added the powder to all their water
All of the snakes showed very rapid improvement and they were all feeding within two weeks
No scalpels and no heavy medication 
Zero signs of any return so could be worth investigating more

Sometimes a snake will get constipated
Often a bath in warm water cures this
Sometimes it doesnt
Powerade Prune Juice and Water in equal amounts clears out the worst blockages usually within 48 hours
Simply mix it up and syringe it straight down their throats
You dont need to use much so dont try to fill the whole gut cavity with the liquid

RI or respiratory infection is just plain yucky
Usually arrives because your temps were too low for too long
Basically your snake has the flu
Similar symptoms and it can kill snakes fairly quickly
One of the biggest problems with RI is the type of medication
Baytril works well either injected or orally 
BUT
Afterwards vets usually tell you to avoid any form of stress for the snake and that often includes breeding
Snakes treated with Baytril etc are very susceptible to RI in the future and second treatments of Baytril dont seem to work very well
This method I will describe is pretty time consuming but well worth a try as it clears up RI extremely well

Get a click clack type thing [plastic box with plenty of ventilation holes]
Get a bigger plastic box like a Woolworths storage box without holes
Get a plastic kitchen jug
Ingredients
1 litre boiling water
10 drops oil of eucalypt
Half [1/2] tespoon of Vicks vapour rub

Slitherer in ventilated box
Ventilated box into bigger plastic box
Jug of hot water Vicks and Eucalypt into the bigger box but not in direct contact with the small one
Put the lid on the bigger container and have a beer
Leave snake alone for about 10 minutes then back into its viv
Here is the bit that lots of Aussie vets disagree with [they normally recommend less humidity]
Up the humidity by 15% and temps by 2 or 3 Degrees Celcius
Repeat this twice a day for about 3 weeks
Has never failed yet even on snakes blowing bubbles and gasping etc

You have just made a steam bath for your snake
Exactly the same treatment our grannies used on us

Once again I am not trying to replace vet treatment here
Simply offering a few things up that have worked for me


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## Chris (Aug 10, 2011)

This thread should be made a sticky, some great info already in here, keep it building guys.


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## sandman1 (Aug 10, 2011)

Half of this stuff is so basic . It really makes me want to smack myself in the head , For not thinking of it myself


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## slide (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks for the input its good to know that there are little things that we as caregivers can do to ease our mates ailments especially if the problem is nipped in the bud.Any other positive tried and true methods out there? Keep 'em coming guys


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## Renenet (Aug 10, 2011)

Please make this a sticky!


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## alrightknight (Aug 10, 2011)

The RI treament is such a no brainer why have I not thought of that, I have a flu now and wouldnt mind sticking my head in one of those boxes thats for sure.


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## Schnecke (Aug 10, 2011)

We used LOADS of home remedies on my horses when I was younger. Which I also carried across to my dogs. Things like potato pultice's for bruising and swelling, copper sulphate (bluestone I think we called it) for large wounds to avoid proud flesh (permenant fleshy scaring) Granugen for drying out infections (not available anymore, but it was a people/pharmacy thing, have no idea what it was used for with people but it was sooooooo good for the horses)

There's so much out there that helps that's not vet prescribed. i'm one that is VERY thankful when people share :-D

PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT USE THESE ABOVE PRODUCTS ON REPTILES


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## longqi (Aug 10, 2011)

As you think of them keep adding bits in here and please feel free to question things
Natural remedies are NOT the answer to everything
But sometimes they can work pretty well

Ive got loads more buried away in that mush inside my head so questions might make me remember more

I havnt tried this yet on reptiles but in New Zealand there is a flax plant similar to the flax in Australia
If you pull out a few fronds there is an opaque jelly like substance there 
Better than Manuka Honey for open wounds
Both me and my dogs used to get cut up a bit when we went out to get pigs
That stuff was better than any medication

Manuka Honey and savlon... Great for open wounds on snakes


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## Twitch_80 (Aug 11, 2011)

This is awesome, sticky be good. You should cover feeding problems, change of food, info you keep on snakes, things you should look for as early warnings and what they mean, also be interesting to know different methods people use for cooling. I really like that people know so much on here and dont mind sharing.


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## Firedrake (Aug 12, 2011)

Longqi are you talking about aloe vera plants? They will grow with almost no care at all and the jelly can be used for anything from burns to open wounds, it's amazing stuff.


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## Waterrat (Aug 12, 2011)

Longqui, can you please explain what exactly you mean by "I *syringed* one chondro and one retic with powdered cuttlefish bone [stuff budgies play with]
then also added the powder to all their water"

How do you syringe dry powder? Or have I got it wrong?

Thanks
M


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## feathergrass (Aug 12, 2011)

no not aloe vera its a new zealand flax ( harakeke) dont know its english name
you split the front and the sap/gel that seeps out is great folr open wounds cuts and alsort my nana used it on us kids growing up and i used it straight from the garden on my son ( hes 17 and in nz) for spots cuts and scrapes and stuff its great 
will ask my dad if there is the same kinda flax here in aussie


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## S&M Morelia (Aug 12, 2011)

hmmmm, raising humidity when a snake has RI.....I personally wouldn't do this myself.
If it was a virus, yes, but being an infection, the drier it can become the better/quicker it will fix itself.


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## SYNeR (Aug 12, 2011)

Interesting.. Given the list(s) above, would anyone be able to recommend which I should use for some minor scarring?

I think my woma has got scarring from baytril injections 
I'm hoping with a few sheds it will clear up and not be so noticable, but in the mean time would like a suggestion as to what I should rub on it.


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## Firedrake (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok so different plant, they must belong to the same sort of family though. It's amazing what some plants can do, just with the sap or other parts. There should be a list of natural remedies and instructions on how to use them, anyone want to volunteer their expertise? Especially seeing as we probably have most of them living in our gardens already.


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## longqi (Aug 12, 2011)

Flax has been explained now
Cool
I dont know the big names for most of this stuff

Waterat
sorry mate should have explained that better
I sat there for about an hour crushing the Cuttlefish bone into as fine a powder as I could
Then mixed it with water and let it sit over night
Used that for both the syringe and the drinking water but the syringe lot was stronger as they were both pretty crook
None of the snakes were keen on drinking the water but I didnt give them a choice as that was the only water I gave them 
Tried it myself and didnt taste too bad

SM Morelia
Thats the thing that is so different about this RI treatment
Most Aussie vets get horrified when you say you up the humidity for this RI treatment
But it works extremely well
Best thing is that there are no residual chemicals left and zero side effects
Bactrim and Baytril are basically the same stuff
One for kids with throat infections etc
One for snakes
Anyone with kids knows Bactrim pretty well
Once kids start on it they need bigger and stronger doses next time


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## Leeloofluff (Aug 12, 2011)

Thank you so much for this thread! And what perfect timing! A vet has just put my two jungles back onto their second round of baytril, which I'm hoping will work. But I'm going to do the steam bath as well, I'm at my wits end with r.I.


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## Mister_Snakes (Aug 12, 2011)

Don't want to hijack the thread, but anyone who has or does use flamazine on wounds, do you have any methods of covering the wound once applied to prevent it rubbing off straight away?


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## feathergrass (Aug 12, 2011)

for scarring if i am wrong please correct me but wouldnt a vitamin E cream/ oil (with no perfume or nasty chemicals or scents) work i know it works on humans as i used it for a scar down my leg and when i was preggo with all three of my kids also used it on a cat and a dog once for helping soften and reduce scar tissue


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## kawasakirider (Aug 12, 2011)

I know for burns zinc cream doesn't go astray.

longqi, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post with the powerade tip and all the others.


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## longqi (Aug 12, 2011)

Lee
I most definitely would NOT mix the two treatments
Baytril is used then the snakes humidity is usually dropped
Maybe Baytril needs that to work properly???

After the course of injections if the Baytril has not worked would be the time to use the bath


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## SYNeR (Aug 12, 2011)

Vitamin E for scars is a myth, unforunately.


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## Chris1 (Aug 12, 2011)

paw paw ointment is great to help shedding, i use a petroleum free one,..


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## Leeloofluff (Aug 12, 2011)

Thank you longqi, the humidity is nil with the two being treated. They have five more days of injections, then we'll see how they go. Thanks again for all. The advice  Glad you caught me on that


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## SYNeR (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm skeptical of Baytril now.. Seems to have scarred my Woma. And I'm pretty sure I injected it deep enough - intramuscularly, not subcutaneously..

I'll be very uneasy about using it in the future if I need to.

EDIT: perhaps skeptical is the wrong word. Of course it works, it's a medicine.. It just makes me uneasy with the scarring.


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## kawasakirider (Aug 12, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Vitamin E for scars is a myth, unforunately.



I snapped 3 bones in my hand clean in half and it needed to be reconstructed with a TI plate. The vitamin E turned a horrid scar into a barely noticeable one.


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## Serpentess (Aug 12, 2011)

Some pretty decent ideas in here. I assume these will be very handy for the herpers who are more isolated.


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## feathergrass (Aug 12, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Vitamin E for scars is a myth, unforunately.



i had 46 stitches on from ankle to knee on the inside of my leg the vitamin e cream turned it from a nasty as looking thing to a i can look at it and not want to be sick scar also help scarring on my mums foot after her op to not become hard and stiff and made it heal bettter an retain flexibility


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## longqi (Aug 12, 2011)

Syner
baytril saved your snake
A few scars is better than a dead slitherer


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## Smithers (Aug 12, 2011)

Another great read first retained eye caps this morning now this, thanks Longqi and the others who have contributed very useful info.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 12, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Vitamin E for scars is a myth, unforunately.


I have had numerous doctors and even scar removal clinics tell me that it helps encourage the healing of scars.
If what you say is true can you please show me some evidence that supports what you say?



SYNeR said:


> Interesting.. Given the list(s) above, would anyone be able to recommend which I should use for some minor scarring?
> 
> I think my woma has got scarring from baytril injections
> I'm hoping with a few sheds it will clear up and not be so noticable, but in the mean time would like a suggestion as to what I should rub on it.


If you managed to give your Woma scars from injecting it then I fail to see how the Baytril had anything to do with it, needles cause damage regardless of what they are injecting.
Im sure any damage a the tiny needle may have caused will heal very quickly, Iv had to regularly inject juvenile beardies and you could not see any marks after they shed


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## SYNeR (Aug 13, 2011)

On my phone at the moment. I'll dig up some studies when in front of a computer. Basically Vitamin E can retard the healing of scar tissue and cause dermatitis.It's a bit silly using anecdotal evidence and saying ' but it healed my scar real good'. Double blind studies show otherwise.



Goldmember;2019678
If you managed to give your Woma scars from injecting it then I fail to how the Baytril had anything to do with it said:


> It's got nothing to do with the needle. The needle shouldn't be a problem if you aim between scales. The issue is Baytril is considered highly cytotoxic and actually burns the animal..
> Not to mention, Baytril for reptiles is actually an off-label use.
> 
> Common Reptile Drugs and Dosages (includes references)
> ...


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 13, 2011)

Well that gives me something to think about next time I hit the pavement at high speeds, thanks Syner


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## cement (Aug 14, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> What's the hammer for? That's how I fix stuff at work not the herp room



For those of us that rescue and care for reptiles, you occasionally get one that is past help and in excruciating pain.
I am not trying to provoke anybody here,and i realize that doing the act of euthing by hammer is probably making the cup of tea too strong for a lot of people that frequent this site.
Its a sad moment for me too, and the absolute worst part of this type of work, but it is quick and extremely effective for releasing a dying animal from earthly pain.


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## Seraph (Aug 19, 2012)

Thank you so much for this thread. 
There is some amazing information here. 
I never thought that power aid could be so versatile.


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## Robynne (Aug 19, 2012)

I agree with cement about putting a snake out of its misery. Nothing worse than watching an animal suffer.


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## wylie88 (Aug 20, 2012)

Great thread, lots of good advice.


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## JrFear (Aug 20, 2012)

ssssnakeman said:


> frontline spray - Mite treatment



can you use this on reptiles?


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## RiPPle (Aug 20, 2012)

SYNeR said:


> Interesting.. Given the list(s) above, would anyone be able to recommend which I should use for some minor scarring?
> 
> Iodine is good for scarring on reptiles. I had a coastal that had burn scars on it and i was recommended to wipe iodine on the scars a couple of times a day with cotton wool. I think it still has to grow out with sheds, but it speeds up the process...
> feel free to correct me if im wrong.....


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## longqi (Sep 29, 2012)

Just had a VERY interesting talk with a breeder in Jakarta today

He had 6 IJ Carpet hatchies that would not feed for over 3 months
He is a great bloke and had tried everything including braining etc etc

His answer was try something he heard of but never done

Mixed plain yoghurt with chicken flavoured baby food and syringed a gobful down the throat
3 days later 5/6 took pinkies

Theory behind it is simple
Some hatchies dont absorb all the egg yolk
Maybe they miss out on some enzymes/bacteria?? that promote feeding
Yoghurt promotes enzymes/bacteria?? in the gut and so they feed 

Would probably also work on adult snakes after egg laying if they are in poor nick

Any comments on this are very welcome as it would be a lot less stressful on hatchies than force feeding???


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## Endeavour (Sep 29, 2012)

longqi said:


> Just had a VERY interesting talk with a breeder in Jakarta today
> 
> He had 6 IJ Carpet hatchies that would not feed for over 3 months
> He is a great bloke and had tried everything including braining etc etc
> ...



Very interesting thanks for posting this and all your other top tips.


Kindest regards

Endeavour


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## longqi (Nov 8, 2012)

If anyone out there knows a vet please get them to drop us a line
[email protected]

For minor infections burns and cuts etc we do ok here with our remedies
But if the infection is bad we are losing too many in my opinion
We dont have the luxury of free treatment for native animals that you have in Aus
So I have to euthanise reptiles too often that I know we could have saved

There are various triple antibiotics etc out there that can help us such as neosporin/equate florazine silverzine Baytril [enrofloxacin] Piperacil (piperacillin), and Amikacin (amiglyde sulfate) etc etc etc
Most are not available in Indonesia or are horrendously expensive but can work well on bad infections
In Aus these all have a use by date and after that have to be dumped
If any is due to be dumped soon we would love it to get dumped in our direction

example
We have a 3metre retic that came in with a golf ball sized ball of pus and yuck on the back above the vent
I opened it and removed as much as I could before treating it by washing it out
Ive had to go back 3 times now to do the same thing and if I am honest I think its possibly getting worse because we cannot kill the infection itself


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## -Peter (Dec 9, 2012)

longqi said:


> Just had a VERY interesting talk with a breeder in Jakarta today
> 
> He had 6 IJ Carpet hatchies that would not feed for over 3 months
> He is a great bloke and had tried everything including braining etc etc
> ...



I have been using a vetinairy probiotic for many years now, its been useful on all types of reptiles Ive had in care and recalcitrant young non feeders.


- - - Updated - - -



SYNeR said:


> I'm skeptical of Baytril now.. Seems to have scarred my Woma. And I'm pretty sure I injected it deep enough - intramuscularly, not subcutaneously..
> 
> I'll be very uneasy about using it in the future if I need to.
> 
> EDIT: perhaps skeptical is the wrong word. Of course it works, it's a medicine.. It just makes me uneasy with the scarring.



Ive always wondered about theis. The makers of Baytril recommend it begiven orally, not by injection.

- - - Updated - - -



RiPPle said:


> SYNeR said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.. Given the list(s) above, would anyone be able to recommend which I should use for some minor scarring?
> ...


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## Bushman (Dec 9, 2012)

This is an excellent thread. It's been suggested that we make it a sticky and I agree. 
Thanks to everyone involved.


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## geckodan (Dec 9, 2012)

longqi said:


> Flax has been explained now
> Cool
> I dont know the big names for most of this stuff
> 
> ...



Crushed Cuttlefish bone is just Calcium carbonate powder - I fail to see what major role it has in treating bacterial stomatitis (if thats what you were referring to) other than bone repair.
Bactrim and Baytril are most definately not the same thing - not even the same class of antibiotics.
Higher doses are not required at subsequent treatments. The recommended dose is based on the dose required to achieve therapeutic levels.


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## Stuart (Dec 9, 2012)

Bushman said:


> This is an excellent thread. It's been suggested that we make it a sticky and I agree.
> Thanks to everyone involved.



I second it, the info shared is brilliant.


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## Justdragons (Dec 10, 2012)

Great thread guys,  cheers for all the info.


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## longqi (Dec 12, 2012)

geckodan said:


> Crushed Cuttlefish bone is just Calcium carbonate powder - I fail to see what major role it has in treating bacterial stomatitis (if thats what you were referring to) other than bone repair.
> Bactrim and Baytril are most definately not the same thing - not even the same class of antibiotics.
> Higher doses are not required at subsequent treatments. The recommended dose is based on the dose required to achieve therapeutic levels.



gecko
cuttlefish bone has been used for 2000 years by chinese for treating open wounds and mouth and stomach ulcers
I agree that in theory it shouldnt work
But that can said of many other things as well such as manuka honey
it works but nobody can explain exactly why

My kids were on bactrim for years
Dosages increased every few months until tonsils were removed


Any decent reptile vet will tell you this
Baytril works. But the snake will always be more susceptible to RI afterwards
Plus the RI will be worse each time requiring a higher dosage

So although for the same ri the treatment will be the same
If the snake gets another ri the subsequent dosage will be higher to fight the same infection


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## cement (Dec 12, 2012)

longqi said:


> gecko
> cuttlefish bone has been used for 2000 years by chinese for treating open wounds and mouth and stomach ulcers
> I agree that in theory it shouldnt work
> But that can said of many other things as well such as manuka honey
> it works but nobody can explain exactly why



No matter what the treatment, no matter what or who the patient.
All anyone or any medicine can ever do, is provide an environment whereby the organism can heal itself.

Drugs, massage, doctors, vets etc,etc do not heal people or animals. They only provide/or attempt to provide conditions to promote self healing.

Reptiles are very fast healers when given the right conditions. I hear of many treatments for burns and wounds etc, that are spoken of highly, but do they really work any faster then if they were left alone? How would we know? How can you tell if a burn has scarred less with a certain medicine or not?

We use ways to keep infection at bay, and provide restful peace, while the tissues regenerate. Much more than that is debatable.


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