# Exotic reptiles



## matthew.21 (Mar 30, 2013)

I love all the species we have in Australia but why can't we buy exotic species . Like different kind of reptiles , we get exotic fish , birds , cats and dogs. So why not reptiles?


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## Bigchewy (Mar 30, 2013)

Thats why we cant have them page 2 http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/nature/hygieneProtocolSnakes.pdf


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## matthew.21 (Mar 31, 2013)

Yea diseases and stuff , but doesn't that happen from the other species that we get as I was saying . Birds ,fish so on.


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## lizardjasper (Mar 31, 2013)

matthew.21 said:


> Yea diseases and stuff , but doesn't that happen from the other species that we get as I was saying . Birds ,fish so on.



Yeah, but they're already in the country. I guess they just don't want to bring in anything else that might ruin the eco system. At least we have strict laws about keeping reptiles here. You know America have bearded dragon shelters there now? Because people dump them like they do cats and dogs. In fact, when people get tired of them, they throw them outside to fend for themselves and then they die in winter. So sad. Glad Australia isn't like that with our reptiles.


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## Venomous_RBB (Mar 31, 2013)

lizardjasper said:


> Yeah, but they're already in the country. I guess they just don't want to bring in anything else that might ruin the eco system. At least we have strict laws about keeping reptiles here. You know America have bearded dragon shelters there now? Because people dump them like they do cats and dogs. In fact, when people get tired of them, they throw them outside to fend for themselves and then they die in winter. So sad. Glad Australia isn't like that with our reptiles.



That is extremely sad..... Extremely....


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## Shaggz (Mar 31, 2013)

Unfortunately way too much of that happens here too, Just look on gumtree and see how many reptiles are being sold because the kids lost interest after a week, or a bit snappy at 3 months of age or any other rediculous reason. then they find out they need a permit to sell them and the ads disappear but never reappear. Does that mean they decided to keep them????? I think in a lot of cases they are dumped or sold illegally. Also there are already exotics here, they get found occasionally in the wild after being released and they are constantly advertised for sale on gumtree and similar sites.


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## mcloughlin2 (Mar 31, 2013)

lizardjasper said:


> Yeah, but they're already in the country. I guess they just don't want to bring in anything else that might ruin the eco system. At least we have strict laws about keeping reptiles here. You know America have bearded dragon shelters there now? Because people dump them like they do cats and dogs. In fact, when people get tired of them, they throw them outside to fend for themselves and then they die in winter. So sad. Glad Australia isn't like that with our reptiles.



You're dreaming if you think Australia isn't already there. Licensing laws implace but cannot be enforced due to a lack of resources.


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## lizardjasper (Mar 31, 2013)

Shaggz said:


> Unfortunately way too much of that happens here too, Just look on gumtree and see how many reptiles are being sold because the kids lost interest after a week, or a bit snappy at 3 months of age or any other rediculous reason. then they find out they need a permit to sell them and the ads disappear but never reappear. Does that mean they decided to keep them????? I think in a lot of cases they are dumped or sold illegally. Also there are already exotics here, they get found occasionally in the wild after being released and they are constantly advertised for sale on gumtree and similar sites.



At least there's still some enthusiasts out there. When the kids get sick of that albino green tree python, I'm so there!


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## lizardjasper (Mar 31, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> You're dreaming if you think Australia isn't already there. Licensing laws implace but cannot be enforced due to a lack of resources.



I know....but still not as bad as throwing the reptiles into the street to die in the snow.


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## matthew.21 (Mar 31, 2013)

I would love to get a chameleon , they are so cool but there exotic  . I'm sure lots of people want them


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## Chicken (Mar 31, 2013)

A large % of exotic reptiles WOULD and WILL thrive in Australia.
As 'cool' as they seem, in todays day and age it'd be one of the biggest mistakes Australia could make.
I prefer all out natives over exotics anyway, why not make use with what we've got?


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## Xeaal (Mar 31, 2013)

Well at least in Victoria we have the Lost Reptiles Home, 2 branches of it actually. Many snakes and lizards get handed in that have been found or just because the owners are moving or can't manage them, or whatever. It would be nice if all States had these, just like we have dog and cat shelters.


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## grantnjo (Mar 31, 2013)

American TV show "python hunters" gives good insight into exotic animals that are playing havoc on ecosystem.


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## apprenticegnome (Mar 31, 2013)

matthew.21 said:


> I love all the species we have in Australia but why can't we buy exotic species . Like different kind of reptiles , we get exotic fish , birds , cats and dogs. So why not reptiles?


For that exact reason. Some exotic fish have been released into Australian waterways already and in some areas survive quite o.k. so I am told. I like some exotic reptiles but you don't miss what you never had. Why not keep Australia the unique country it is and not follow others like sheep. This is just my opinion.


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## mcloughlin2 (Mar 31, 2013)

lizardjasper said:


> I know....but still not as bad as throwing the reptiles into the street to die in the snow.



Perhaps not tossing them out too the snow but the number of reptiles that would be released into the nearest water body or patch of bushland would surprise you. Many of which will be doomed to deaths.


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## Ambush (Mar 31, 2013)

Exotics are not as nice as our snakes. They seemed boring and dull when I was in the States. It was our reptiles that were popular there. I went to many different pet stores and reptiles stores. Even had a scumbag asking could I smuggle for him.. 
It was nice seen some very passionate keepers there.


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## longqi (Apr 1, 2013)

Bismarck python
Boelins Python
White Lipped Python
White Lipped Green Pit Viper
Eye lash Viper
Boiga Dendrophila
Sunbeam Snake

Any one of those is eat your heart out material
So dont think we have the best of reptiles
BUT
We do have the most successfully protected ones
When you see what happens overseas you will be thankful for our laws


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## benjamind2010 (Apr 6, 2013)

I'd take a woma or a BHP over anything exotic. 

*But*, I doubt it's hygiene that has anything to do with the severe restrictions. 

I think it's more to do with feral potential of some exotic species, which undoubtedly there is, perhaps very high feral potential in certain species. That, along with the fact that those breeding large numbers and making huge amounts of money from the trade don't want the market to be opened up for buyers which would interfere with their ability to sell animals that are currently in high demand due simply to the fact that buyers have fewer choices.

That's just my view, but I think it's pretty close to the truth. Sorry to be the bearer of hard words, but these are as good as I can come up with. To me it appears those two things are the only logical conclusion. Keeping exotics is not really a problem *with the exception of feral potential. *But, since we already have cats and dogs and other assorted species already here and in massive numbers, I doubt exotics will make much of a dent so much as a difference in the ecosystem. If I am wrong then maybe someone here could call me out on that but I doubt you're going to find anyone on here who would be willing to argue with me or indeed anyone here with experience in the politics of trade.

A perfect example of what I'm talking about is big tobacco companies trying to ban alternative electric cigarettes - they're trying to stop ex-smokers who've taken up what is known as "vaping" from being able to legally purchase nicotine-containing liquid known as "e-juice". In other words, it's not about health risks as they claim, it's simply about controlling what goes to who - in this case it's all about money.

I'm jaded, but I'm not going to insult my own intelligence here by pole-axing common sense. It is what it is and it's just a case of _tough **** what are you gonna do about it?_


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## Xanthine (Apr 6, 2013)

The problem with comparing released snakes and lizards to released cats and dogs is the niche which these animals thrive in. A cane toad does not eat the same food as a feral cat, yet you can't say it has no effect on the ecosystem. Ignoring the toad's bufotoxin, the food sources they utilise reduce food available for native species, and they take shelters that native species could occupy. I go down to the local waterway to fish up small fish for my turtle, and 95% of what I fish up are not gudgeons, but rather livebearers (indeed, I throw gudgeons back). You can not tell me that the prevalence and ease in which livebearers breed does not influence populations of gudgeons. The niches which exotic snakes would occupy would directly compete with native animals, thereby reducing their populations in the wild.

The ONLY reptiles I could think of that would not have a severe impact on native species are tortoises (not turtles) because: assuming you have chosen the correct species, they eat grasses - no competition for food due to prevalence of grasses we have no native tortoises - no comparable species; their requirements for housing are largely reduced compared to reptiles - no or little housing competition; they are not predators; they are slow - easy targets when young for predators. The largest risk factors I could see would be secondary ones, eg increase in feral cat populations due to a new, easy to catch food, which puts pressure on native species.

This is why Australia cannot, and should never allow the introduction of exotic reptiles.


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## Ambush (Apr 6, 2013)

Look at the damage the Rats of the Sky are doing.
Indian Minor is taking nesting sites. The Rosella numbers here are down big time.


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## beardedman (May 13, 2013)

no the real problem is the government just doesnt want them and i reckon over time they will even make the rules on our licenses harsher and harder to get so we dont keep reptiles in the end


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## pyalda (May 13, 2013)

I put up a petition about this few days ago... but it got removed.. awaiting reason why it was removed. 
Reptiles are imported illegally anyway - regardless of it being a crime... so is drug trade... does that mean it doesnt happen? No it just happens in an UNCONTROLLED environment. 
Snake importing happens regularly.. and they are imported in a very inhumane way, many die in transport! kept by people who know nothing about them and dont care. so risk of disease is taken anyway when importing illegally and that will happen regardless of laws in place. 
So why not legalise it and have people who are licensed and controlled - who are true enthusiasts - Take care of and appreciate these precious animals??
in relation to disease, its not the 18th century, we have QUARANTINE... why do i feel like evryone just takes whatever is given to them when it comes to discussing exotic reptiles.


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## pyalda (May 13, 2013)

And the main reason why most people on this forum hate the idea...
Think about what would happen to the price of Aussie pythons if there was exotics ?? would you pay $1500 for an albino darwin when you can have a exotic python with nicer colours?  and alot of people on this forum make decent money from breeding pythons.


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## Wiganov (May 13, 2013)

longqi said:


> Bismarck python
> Boelins Python
> White Lipped Python
> White Lipped Green Pit Viper
> ...



I'd amend that to "So don't think we have ALL the best reptiles"  But otherwise, spot on.


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## Ambush (May 15, 2013)

Telstra BigPond News and Weather The mass arrival of cane toads in the delicate Kimberley region of Western Australia is the biggest environmental disaster to ever hit the region, Premier Colin Barnett says.​
No Thanks


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## benjamind2010 (May 15, 2013)

pyalda said:


> And the main reason why most people on this forum hate the idea...
> Think about what would happen to the price of Aussie pythons if there was exotics ?? would you pay $1500 for an albino darwin when you can have a exotic python with nicer colours?  and alot of people on this forum make decent money from breeding pythons.



As much as I hate to say it, this comes fairly close to the truth of local sentiment. However, I wouldn't say that an albino darwin is less beautiful than say any exotic python. And they're not $1500 any more, if you look hard enough you can find them for $600-700.


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## benjamind2010 (May 15, 2013)

BTW, most of our natives are prettier IMHO than the vast majority of the non-natives you have generally come to know. Example - Bredli, Diamonds, Womas, Blackheaded pythons, Rough-scaled pythons, etc, are a LOT prettier to me than any Ball python.


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## Brodie (May 15, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> BTW, most of our natives are prettier IMHO than the vast majority of the non-natives you have generally come to know. Example - Bredli, Diamonds, Womas, Blackheaded pythons, Rough-scaled pythons, etc, are a LOT prettier to me than any Ball python.




Ever seen a Gabon viper? A rhino viper? A puff adder? Rainbow boas? Sunbeam snakes? Eyelash vipers? Boomslangs? Green Mambas?Australian snakes ARE beautiful but they are not top of the list, well, my list anyway!

PS - I don't think exotics should be legal.


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## andynic07 (May 15, 2013)

pyalda said:


> I put up a petition about this few days ago... but it got removed.. awaiting reason why it was removed.
> Reptiles are imported illegally anyway - regardless of it being a crime... so is drug trade... does that mean it doesnt happen? No it just happens in an UNCONTROLLED environment.
> Snake importing happens regularly.. and they are imported in a very inhumane way, many die in transport! kept by people who know nothing about them and dont care. so risk of disease is taken anyway when importing illegally and that will happen regardless of laws in place.
> So why not legalise it and have people who are licensed and controlled - who are true enthusiasts - Take care of and appreciate these precious animals??
> in relation to disease, its not the 18th century, we have QUARANTINE... why do i feel like evryone just takes whatever is given to them when it comes to discussing exotic reptiles.


Are you saying that just because it is happening we should legalise it? Does this also apply to all crimes? I think you may want to re-think your reasons and come up with something logical to state your point as to why you think they should be legalised if you want people to take you serious. Also I do not think people on this site are too worried about the price of reptiles dropping with the introduction of exotic species of snakes.


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## andynic07 (May 15, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> BTW, most of our natives are prettier IMHO than the vast majority of the non-natives you have generally come to know. Example - Bredli, Diamonds, Womas, Blackheaded pythons, Rough-scaled pythons, etc, are a LOT prettier to me than any Ball python.


[h=1]Some pictures of my collection. Check some of these out mate, some of these are just as impressive as our natives.[/h]


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## benjamind2010 (May 15, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Are you saying that just because it is happening we should legalise it? Does this also apply to all crimes? I think you may want to re-think your reasons and come up with something logical to state your point as to why you think they should be legalised if you want people to take you serious. Also I do not think people on this site are too worried about the price of reptiles dropping with the introduction of exotic species of snakes.



This concept would not apply to criminal activity that causes harm to others or the environment. Bringing in exotic animals without supervision and quarantine places Australia at serious risk of diseases and pests. Which causes harm. The same can be said for most other exotics too, especially carnivorous predators, and they do pose similar threats.

If you were talking about drugs or voluntary euthanasia (AKA medically assisted suicide), I would agree that it should be virtually completely decriminalised and available to all who wish to avail themselves of it. Unfortunately the government (or it's mouthpiece) tells us that our bodies belong to us, but I see -as do most people with any real intelligence- that only applies to abortion. It doesn't apply to drugs or voluntary euthanasia. Something I am personally at loggerheads with. But that's just how it is. I would say it's all about money and that makes sense to me. Private interests simply don't want any competition or any interruption from their profit streams to occur. Voluntary euthanasia's availability would disrupt a massive money stream to those who benefit from forcing patients to live against their will. With drugs, well, don't get me started. Big alcohol industry doesn't want the competition, neither does big tobacco, and big pharmaceutical companies want their fingers in the pie too, so they have a hand in this crap as well. Enough said? Now the irony with abortion is that it is an _enormously_ profitable business, and I guess nobody wants to discuss that because it is embarrassing to say the least. I am here if only to disseminate facts, I don't discuss religious viewpoints, but I most certainly WILL discuss facts in relation to politics if I think it's appropriate.

To sum it up, you only have "rights" that "they" want you to have. Forget the rest, you'll go to prison if you don't do as you're told, so to speak.

But for environmental risks there needs to be regulations in place. We need to regulate what happens here as well (eg. mining, and certain industries which can cause environmental damage, such as logging) as what comes in from overseas.


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## andynic07 (May 15, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> This concept would not apply to criminal activity that causes harm to others or the environment. Bringing in exotic animals without supervision and quarantine places Australia at serious risk of diseases and pests. Which causes harm. The same can be said for most other exotics too, especially carnivorous predators, and they do pose similar threats.
> 
> If you were talking about drugs or voluntary euthanasia (AKA medically assisted suicide), I would agree that it should be virtually completely decriminalised and available to all who wish to avail themselves of it. Unfortunately the government (or it's mouthpiece) tells us that our bodies belong to us, but I see -as do most people with any real intelligence- that only applies to abortion. It doesn't apply to drugs or voluntary euthanasia. Something I am personally at loggerheads with. But that's just how it is. I would say it's all about money and that makes sense to me. Private interests simply don't want any competition or any interruption from their profit streams to occur. Voluntary euthanasia's availability would disrupt a massive money stream to those who benefit from forcing patients to live against their will. With drugs, well, don't get me started. Big alcohol industry doesn't want the competition, neither does big tobacco, and big pharmaceutical companies want their fingers in the pie too, so they have a hand in this crap as well. Enough said? Now the irony with abortion is that it is an _enormously_ profitable business, and I guess nobody wants to discuss that because it is embarrassing to say the least. I am here if only to disseminate facts, I don't discuss religious viewpoints, but I most certainly WILL discuss facts in relation to politics if I think it's appropriate.
> 
> ...


So you are basically saying that you would like to choose which of the illegal activities are made legal and which ones are not instead of the government which has processes in place to deal with such decisions. I personally can see that there is a risk to our native fauna if an exotic species was to escape and establish itself in Australia.


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## johneven (May 15, 2013)

Jungle jag are they native to australia?


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## andynic07 (May 15, 2013)

johneven said:


> Jungle jag are they native to australia?


Yes


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## Bananapeel (May 15, 2013)

Who cares what's prettier or not. I think we can all agree it would be a stupid decision to allow the keeping of exotics. 
If we can't be happy with what we have then we are selfish. We have such beautiful animals here and to be allowed to keep and and such a diverse range of them (which I may add is expanding) is just amazing. This debate seems to comeuppance lot and the answers always seem to be the same. The problems to natives etc etc. there really is no reason to bring in exotics other than for our personal gain because some either don't see the beauty in what we have, need something new and exciting or want to make money etc with new bright toys. And for anyone who isn't happy nor sees the beauty in what we have, Ithink it would come as a shock if many of our natives were wiped out due to the allowance of huge numbers of exotics. Only then would we realise what we had once its gone. The many funky genes and patterns etc and new snakes that are coming into our aussie lines all the time are truly amazing. They are also something many other nationalities admire as we have STUNNING PURE lines that are ever developing but not being sent elsewhere to be messed with. Makes 'em jealous I think


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## sharky (May 15, 2013)

I agree with you BP!

Also, if people want a boa, corn, retic, ball python, etc then go move overseas!!!


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## benjamind2010 (May 16, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I personally can see that there is a risk to our native fauna if an exotic species was to escape and establish itself in Australia.



I was never arguing that point. I can see the risks too, and I would never allow something into the country if it was assessed as posing a major threat. We already have enough exotic pests that to bring in any more is senseless and unnecessary - only to satisfy certain individuals who want something because it has bright colours.

However, if, say for example, corn snakes, are found to pose negligible or no risks, then I don't see a problem. But I doubt we would ever see that sort of result from any serious assessment - the most likely outcome is that they would be assessed as a threat to biodiversity and therefore not allowed in, the same as boa constrictors.

I never argued with the government's legal processes. They appear to work fine, except for when they don't. You honestly don't think that lobbying from special interests cannot sway a government? If they have very deep pockets? They sure can. And they sure do. There is no point arguing that because you're only going to lose. Big alcohol and tobacco (and pharmaceutical) companies do not want cannabis added to the list of allowed recreational drugs because it would be serious competition for them. While I understand that cannabis has it's risks (ie, psychotic episodes, potential rage, etc) I can assure you alcohol has a much, much, much bigger risk of causing these problems. I've heard of one person becoming violent whilst using cannabis and he was using very heavily. I've heard of dozens of people becoming violent when they've had too much alcohol, and don't forget about cigarettes. Tobacco is _extremely_ addictive. I know of someone who broke someone's nose so badly that he had to have it reconstructed surgically - the reason? Someone was crazy for a cigarette and this poor guy said no I don't have any, so his nose got smashed in by someone who went psycho because he couldn't get a cigarette.


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## bohdi13 (May 16, 2013)

exotics are a big risk, humans just want more and more and im not saying i don't...everyone should take advantage of what they have but when it's coming to a risky point you should work with what you have. here in WA we are only aloud 35 odd species and 10 odd of them are on a category 5 license which takes 2 years experience and $300 yearly to get. luckily DEC decided to add 6 new species and they are adding another 6 species but im not sure if the latest six being contemplated have been approved.


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## andynic07 (May 16, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> I was never arguing that point. I can see the risks too, and I would never allow something into the country if it was assessed as posing a major threat. We already have enough exotic pests that to bring in any more is senseless and unnecessary - only to satisfy certain individuals who want something because it has bright colours.
> 
> However, if, say for example, corn snakes, are found to pose negligible or no risks, then I don't see a problem. But I doubt we would ever see that sort of result from any serious assessment - the most likely outcome is that they would be assessed as a threat to biodiversity and therefore not allowed in, the same as boa constrictors.
> 
> I never argued with the government's legal processes. They appear to work fine, except for when they don't. You honestly don't think that lobbying from special interests cannot sway a government? If they have very deep pockets? They sure can. And they sure do. There is no point arguing that because you're only going to lose. Big alcohol and tobacco (and pharmaceutical) companies do not want cannabis added to the list of allowed recreational drugs because it would be serious competition for them. While I understand that cannabis has it's risks (ie, psychotic episodes, potential rage, etc) I can assure you alcohol has a much, much, much bigger risk of causing these problems. I've heard of one person becoming violent whilst using cannabis and he was using very heavily. I've heard of dozens of people becoming violent when they've had too much alcohol, and don't forget about cigarettes. Tobacco is _extremely_ addictive. I know of someone who broke someone's nose so badly that he had to have it reconstructed surgically - the reason? Someone was crazy for a cigarette and this poor guy said no I don't have any, so his nose got smashed in by someone who went psycho because he couldn't get a cigarette.


It all seems like a big conspiracy with the drug and alcohol companies then mate, I do not think that if alcohol and cigarette companies controlled the world they would allow all the taxes and restrictions be added to their products. They would not stand for the packaging laws or the advertising laws. Can you please show me this list of recreational drugs that the big companies are trying to keep cannabis off because as far as I have heard about there isn't one and cannabis is legal for treatment when required as with other drugs. I don't know how you have turned my comments to another poster about importation onto this other rubbish but if you read my post I did not argue for or against importing exotics but told another member that he needs to have better reasons than "it is happening anyway". If you wish to continue your other discussion about drugs and alcohol please feel free to PM me rather than fill this thread up with this stuff.


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## treeofgreen (May 16, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> This concept would not apply to criminal activity that causes harm to others or the environment. Bringing in exotic animals without supervision and quarantine places Australia at serious risk of diseases and pests. Which causes harm. The same can be said for most other exotics too, especially carnivorous predators, and they do pose similar threats.
> 
> If you were talking about drugs or voluntary euthanasia (AKA medically assisted suicide), I would agree that it should be virtually completely decriminalised and available to all who wish to avail themselves of it. Unfortunately the government (or it's mouthpiece) tells us that our bodies belong to us, but I see -as do most people with any real intelligence- that only applies to abortion. It doesn't apply to drugs or voluntary euthanasia. Something I am personally at loggerheads with. But that's just how it is. I would say it's all about money and that makes sense to me. Private interests simply don't want any competition or any interruption from their profit streams to occur. Voluntary euthanasia's availability would disrupt a massive money stream to those who benefit from forcing patients to live against their will. With drugs, well, don't get me started. Big alcohol industry doesn't want the competition, neither does big tobacco, and big pharmaceutical companies want their fingers in the pie too, so they have a hand in this crap as well. Enough said? Now the irony with abortion is that it is an _enormously_ profitable business, and I guess nobody wants to discuss that because it is embarrassing to say the least. I am here if only to disseminate facts, I don't discuss religious viewpoints, but I most certainly WILL discuss facts in relation to politics if I think it's appropriate.
> 
> ...





benjamind2010 said:


> I was never arguing that point. I can see the risks too, and I would never allow something into the country if it was assessed as posing a major threat. We already have enough exotic pests that to bring in any more is senseless and unnecessary - only to satisfy certain individuals who want something because it has bright colours.
> 
> However, if, say for example, corn snakes, are found to pose negligible or no risks, then I don't see a problem. But I doubt we would ever see that sort of result from any serious assessment - the most likely outcome is that they would be assessed as a threat to biodiversity and therefore not allowed in, the same as boa constrictors.
> 
> I never argued with the government's legal processes. They appear to work fine, except for when they don't. You honestly don't think that lobbying from special interests cannot sway a government? If they have very deep pockets? They sure can. And they sure do. There is no point arguing that because you're only going to lose. Big alcohol and tobacco (and pharmaceutical) companies do not want cannabis added to the list of allowed recreational drugs because it would be serious competition for them. While I understand that cannabis has it's risks (ie, psychotic episodes, potential rage, etc) I can assure you alcohol has a much, much, much bigger risk of causing these problems. I've heard of one person becoming violent whilst using cannabis and he was using very heavily. I've heard of dozens of people becoming violent when they've had too much alcohol, and don't forget about cigarettes. Tobacco is _extremely_ addictive. I know of someone who broke someone's nose so badly that he had to have it reconstructed surgically - the reason? Someone was crazy for a cigarette and this poor guy said no I don't have any, so his nose got smashed in by someone who went psycho because he couldn't get a cigarette.



Bloody great posts brother. We need more people thinking like this IMO. If anyone strongly disagrees with these views mentioned here, I plead you to research them for yourself. It may just change your perspective... 

I would love to keep a black throat monitor, chameleons or the crazy range of geckos available but if it would hurt our environment then its a definite no. Its as simple as that IMO.


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## Skeptic (May 16, 2013)

benjamind2010 said:


> This concept would not apply to criminal activity that causes harm to others or the environment. Bringing in exotic animals without supervision and quarantine places Australia at serious risk of diseases and pests. Which causes harm. The same can be said for most other exotics too, especially carnivorous predators, and they do pose similar threats.
> 
> If you were talking about drugs or voluntary euthanasia (AKA medically assisted suicide), I would agree that it should be virtually completely decriminalised and available to all who wish to avail themselves of it. Unfortunately the government (or it's mouthpiece) tells us that our bodies belong to us, but I see -as do most people with any real intelligence- that only applies to abortion. It doesn't apply to drugs or voluntary euthanasia. Something I am personally at loggerheads with. But that's just how it is. I would say it's all about money and that makes sense to me. Private interests simply don't want any competition or any interruption from their profit streams to occur. Voluntary euthanasia's availability would disrupt a massive money stream to those who benefit from forcing patients to live against their will. With drugs, well, don't get me started. Big alcohol industry doesn't want the competition, neither does big tobacco, and big pharmaceutical companies want their fingers in the pie too, so they have a hand in this crap as well. Enough said? Now the irony with abortion is that it is an _enormously_ profitable business, and I guess nobody wants to discuss that because it is embarrassing to say the least. I am here if only to disseminate facts, I don't discuss religious viewpoints, but I most certainly WILL discuss facts in relation to politics if I think it's appropriate.
> 
> ...




Just a few points - 

There is no business in abortions. There is no company called Abortions r Us. Abortions are covered by medicare except for the theatre room costs as they are considered elective surgery. 

Voluntary euthanasia would save the public health system huge amounts of money. If the gvt had the chance to cut costs on the PBS and medicare expenses you don't think they would jump at it? I agree it's lobby groups standing in the way but it's not the pharmaceutical companies. They stand to make money from the drugs involved in euthanizing patients. They most likely wouldn't use bullets or a plastic bag. It's the Australian Christian Lobby that has prevented any advance in voluntary euthanasia.

The 'competition' to alcohol as you put it already exists. People have been doing drugs since we came down from the trees. In countries where certain drugs have been legalised there has been no increase in their consumption.

Big tobacco has no sway over the gvt and their legislative powers. If you read the actual news rather than conspiracy theory papers you might have noticed that the Australian gvt just took them on and won.


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## B_STATS (May 16, 2013)

I haven't got an interest in exotic reptiles. Good ol' Straya has all the best ones


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## kriszi (Jun 21, 2013)

--sorry I moved my post to a new topic --


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## Serpent_Gazeux (Jun 21, 2013)

.


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## Ambush (Jun 21, 2013)

kriszi u cant... unless u start a Zoo and then... Good luck


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## kriszi (Jun 21, 2013)

Some other scientific/research purpose can't work?


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## Ambush (Jun 21, 2013)

nope.


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