# Do Brown Snakes Kill Cattle



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 4, 2011)

> Snake Catcher,
> After some advice, in the area I am in as I may have mentioned before the common brown snake is the predominant snake in these parts, I have been hearing that there has been a number of cattle deaths and inparticular on one property whereby four head in one paddock died, on further inspection by local vet snake/snakes have been the culprit, I also have had one unexplained death of a otherwise healthy heifer.
> I have only once seen this happen once before when mustering on horse back cattle in Kenya Africa, the cattle as a mob passed over a large ants nest, the ants then in turn took to a 14 foot black mamba as a result the mamba killed 16 head of cattle in a matter of 5 to 20 minutes.
> So is this normal or abnormal behaviour for a brown?



This is from a worried M.O.P.

I cant imagine 1 snake would have enough venom to kill 16 cattle in 20 minutes??
Mamba or not.

This guy dosnt want to kill them but obviously will if he thinks his cattle will be affected.

As with the other M.O.P question I posted about wetlands near schools, 
I will link this thread to the guy who asked the question.

So he will be able to read first hand what you write here.

Thanks


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## bullfrog (Nov 4, 2011)

hey i have never heard of it happening and i work on a farm, lots of snakes, cows and sheep we have never had any problem, maybe a snake if it diod bite a cow would kill it but no four. and besides that snake will save there venom for pray they can eat cause there is no point in biting a cow cause it cant eat it. i have heard of a horse getting bitten by a tiger snake that it stood on. the horse had to be put down. um i hope this helps u out.

ps. my boss thinks thats a load of rubbish 3 generations on one farm never heard of that


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 4, 2011)

I know snakes can and do kill livestock when thay bite them as a result of being stepped on or startled during grazing.

Cattle and horses graze peacefully and quietly and sometimes when they have their head down will surprize a snake, resulting in a bite to the soft snout or face of the animal.

Unexplained death of cattle is usually blamed on a snake but there are many things that could kill livestock and sometimes the snake is like a scape goat.(is that how you spell it).


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## longqi (Nov 4, 2011)

I know a big brown can definitely kill 3 horses within one hour
Was stepped on
Hit one on the fetlock
Other on the side


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 4, 2011)

That must have been a big brown Peter. 
Do you would think by the time it got around to envenomating the 3rd horse it would be almost dry?


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## souldoubt (Nov 4, 2011)

For an animal with venom as potent as the eastern brown I'm sure it's possible, but it would take a hell of a lot of venom to take down a full grown cow. Most deaths I've heard of in cattle due to snake bites (which aren't many) were in younger animals.

The vet shouldn't be making such presumptive and damaging (to an already unpopular species) diagnosis unless it can be confirmed with toxicology tests - which I would recommend having done if they werent because it is hard to find a snake bite on an animal and you may very well have a different issue to worry about. Sudden death is definitely consistent with an eastern brown snake bite, as is large amounts of bleeding (which can obviously both be assessed post mortem), but so are many other diseases.

I dont think you need to worry too much if it was a snake bite though, because snakes are usually quick to retreat. The snake would not be actively envenomating cattle even if these cases were snake bites, it would be likely that a cow/bull has stepped on the snake. I would say it's not abnormal for an eastern brown to defend itself, but it really couldnt imagine cattle death due to snake bite being common.


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## moosenoose (Nov 4, 2011)

From what I have heard about horses (and I'm not sure if this is true) their eyesight isn't the best at close range? And that being inquisitive they often get bitten on the nose by snakes which (so I believe) leads more to breathing difficulties/failure more so than invenomation and renal failure. I've been told the best way to keep a horse alive after it is bitten is using a garden hose stuffed down the nose of the animal to clear the airway until such times anti-venom is administered which relieves the swelling.

Perhaps a vet, or toxinologist on here can burst a few bubbles in my story. I'd be appreciative on hearing their professional opinion, or anyone else with an informed view on this. I presume cattle would be in the same boat (roughly the same size?) Although browns are far more potent than tigers - this might be another issue.


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## hugsta (Nov 4, 2011)

ssssnakeman said:


> That must have been a big brown Peter.
> Do you would think by the time it got around to envenomating the 3rd horse it would be almost dry?



Well they reproduce venom like we do saliva, so it would be fairly quick, especially if there are a few seconds in between bites.


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## miss2 (Nov 4, 2011)

i lost a calf and a young mare in one week to a brown at our place.


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## PimmsPythons (Nov 4, 2011)

its not a cow ,but here is a horse that died via a bushmaster bite in Brazil when i was there. there was a stablehand riding it when it was bitten and he said the horse either stepped on it or almost stepped on it at dusk.
cheers
simon


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## starr9 (Nov 4, 2011)

My dad lost a bull to a snake bite. Then Vet try to save him but it was no good.


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## snakeluvver (Nov 4, 2011)

Youd assume by the time a snake was stood on 3 times it would be in no condition to bite another 10 or so cattle...


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 4, 2011)

An example of the age old debate - POSSIBLE versus PROBABLE. It is definitely possible but is highly improbable. As *Souldoubt* wisely points out, the answer is available through proper testing and only through proper testing. Without toxicology to confirm the occurrence of snake bite in each animal, it will forever remain mere presumption. And that’s how old wives tales get started. 

A bit like the mamba story - one has got to wonder how many animals were actually involved and how long they really took to die... 
It just happened to be an absolute maximum sized snake (uncommon!). Mambas are the fastest moving ground snake but use their speed to avoid conflict and will flee every time if given the chance. They will bite if trapped or cornered and are known to deliver large amounts of venom per bite. They commonly deliver multiple bites (like a Taipan) and seldom produce a dry bite. Death of humans can potentially occur within 20 minutes (if unlucky) but normally it is between 30 to 60 minutes or up to 3 hours (from absoluteastronomy.com). Their venom is primarily neurotoxic and the larger the animal the longer it takes to work... All up - a good example of ‘Chinese Whispers’ I’d reckon!

Blue


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