# Fireproof fluorescent tube ballast



## Rogue5861 (May 6, 2013)

I have 2 loose fit fluro ballasts and ends that i wish to install into a melamine enclosure. 

How would i go about stopping them from burning the enclosure? Was thinking a small cement board or similar to protect the melamine but couldnt track down anything in small sizes.

Has anyone gone about the same thing and found something that will suit how im installing them.


Rick


----------



## fourexes (May 6, 2013)

not sure exactly of your intentions or equipment but fibre board (for lack of a better name) is a good insulator (the replacement for the old fibro) and can be obtained from suppliers for free if you ask for their packing sheets, most bundles come with a sacrificial top sheet, which can also be layered for a substantial amount of insulation.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 6, 2013)

This is my fluro- ballast, tube end connectors, starter and tube. (Not the heat lamp).





I wish to install it into the enclosure on the ceiling. (Can see 1 clip for the tube in photo).






Rick


----------



## fourexes (May 6, 2013)

ah so it's just a fluro without a batten? I would recommend running the ballast & starter outside the enclosure to reduce the effect of humidity & you will still need a cage for the bulb. The bulbs don't run that hot but the holders are live so more of an electrocution issue than a burn issue I believe.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 6, 2013)

This is for some monitors so i wont need a cage on it, the bugs get into batten ones so i managed to score a few of these ones free . 

If i was to run the ballasts externally how would i stop them from possible causing a fire? I checked bunnings but they didnt have any metal enclosed boxes, dont want dust catching on fire on them or anything.


Rick


----------



## bigjoediver (May 7, 2013)

Go on the Jaycar website and get some plastic or metal cases.


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> This is for some monitors so i wont need a cage on it, the bugs get into batten ones so i managed to score a few of these ones free .
> 
> If i was to run the ballasts externally how would i stop them from possible causing a fire? I checked bunnings but they didnt have any metal enclosed boxes, dont want dust catching on fire on them or anything.
> 
> ...


I would not think that a ballast would get hot enough to cause a fire but as Bigjoediver said Jcar would be a good place to look for a suitable box. Maybe run your setup for a few hours and measure to temperature of the ballast with a IR gun out of interest for us to see what temperature is does reach and then we could possibly work out if it would or not catch fire.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

I think it was 140c, ill double check tho. What would be a safe temp to mount it against melamine?


Rick


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

Just go to a light wholesaler and get a better fluoro fitting. By law the exposed terminals in the ballast have to be covered with a cover that requires the use of a tool to remove. They really aren't that expensive.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

Got nothing to do with price at all, the reason i choose theses fittings is that they wont allow feeder insects to hide in them. 

They were previously installed in a display cabinet with the ballast screwed into the timber, i just dont want a fire hazard at all. Their was no cover over them or any heatshield.

Maybe i just install them as they are and not worry. All wiring will be installed by a sparky once i have it all ready to go.


Rick


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Melting point is 345degrees and autoignition point is 500 degrees but Snowman makes a good point about the accesability of the terminals. Putting the ballast in a box that requires a screwdriver or socket should cover that though.


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Got nothing to do with price at all, the reason i choose theses fittings is that they wont allow feeder insects to hide in them.
> 
> They were previously installed in a display cabinet with the ballast screwed into the timber, i just dont want a fire hazard at all. Their was no cover over them or any heatshield.
> 
> ...






andynic07 said:


> Melting point is 345degrees and autoignition point is 500 degrees but Snowman makes a good point about the accesability of the terminals. Putting the ballast in a box that requires a screwdriver or socket should cover that though.


Sounds like he doesn't have a clue about wiring to me. An exposed ballast is illegal. And further more it needs to be earthed, which they usually are via the metal fitting that the ballast is attached too. With this cheap fitting that doesnt seem to meet Australian Standards there isn't an earth wire or lug in sight....
Good luck with it... I'm off to buy some marshmallows for the fire.
A standard battern fitting with a diffuser would stop feeder insects hiding IMO.

May as well shred my Victorian and West Australian Electricians licenses.... Non-sparkies know it all...


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Melting point is 345degrees and autoignition point is 500 degrees but Snowman makes a good point about the accesability of the terminals. Putting the ballast in a box that requires a screwdriver or socket should cover that though.



Thanks mate, that is awesome. I was planning to put them into a metal enclosured box but wasnt sure if it being it there would cause too much heat build up.

I will go to jaycar an find a suitable metal enclosure for them. 


Rick


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Sounds like he doesn't have a clue about wiring to me. An exposed ballast is illegal. And further more it needs to be earthed, which they usually are via the metal fitting that the ballast is attached too. With this cheap fitting that doesnt seem to meet Australian Standards there isn't an earth wire or lug in sight....
> Good luck with it... I'm off to buy some marshmallows for the fire.
> A standard battern fitting with a diffuser would stop feeder insects hiding IMO.
> 
> May as well shred my Victorian and West Australian Electricians licenses.... Non-sparkies know it all...



Thanks mate. Never said i knew everything and this is why i asked. Would i be able to put them in a metal enclosured box?


Rick


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Thanks mate. Never said i knew everything and this is why i asked. Would i be able to put them in a metal enclosured box?
> 
> 
> Rick



The problem is (and why I am being so harsh), that when you get things like this wrong. You could kill yourself or someone else. Perhaps even your pets?
The metal ballast needs to be earthed with the appropriate lug and earth cable. To do this you need a basic understanding of electricity and how earthing metal objects works. 
Yes you could put it in a metal box. But then the box and the ballast needs to be earthed.
You could use a pvc box and the ballast still needs to be earthed, but the plastic may melt too.

This is why I said discard the fitting. Unless you are an electrician, it is very hard to make that kind of fitting conform to Australian Standards. A lot of these fittings come out of asia and though they have Australian plugs. They need to be installed correctly to conform to AU standards.

Electricity is often taken for granted. People are VERY complacent about it.... When you work with it however, you see things that are a constant reminder of what happens when things go wrong. I do not want you to be on the recieving end of when things go wrong.


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Sounds like he doesn't have a clue about wiring to me. An exposed ballast is illegal. And further more it needs to be earthed, which they usually are via the metal fitting that the ballast is attached too. With this cheap fitting that doesnt seem to meet Australian Standards there isn't an earth wire or lug in sight....
> Good luck with it... I'm off to buy some marshmallows for the fire.
> A standard battern fitting with a diffuser would stop feeder insects hiding IMO.
> 
> May as well shred my Victorian and West Australian Electricians licenses.... Non-sparkies know it all...


I did not venture into the way it would be wired or earthed as he did state that he would get a licensed electrician to do the wiring. You are dead right in what you say about the wiring and what can happen but I gave the poster the benefit of the doubt. I bet you are not looking forward if and when they unify the states electrical license, you will then need to go overseas to say you have two different electrical licences.


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I did not venture into the way it would be wired or earthed as he did state that he would get a licensed electrician to do the wiring. You are dead right in what you say about the wiring and what can happen but I gave the poster the benefit of the doubt. I bet you are not looking forward if and when they unify the states electrical license, you will then need to go overseas to say you have two different electrical licences.


Less fees sounds good to me. Now can we get a national reptile license too?


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Less fees sounds good to me. Now can we get a national reptile license too?


Try to amalgamate all the states different rules for reptile keeping , I think no chance until the rules are a lot more uniform.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

Thanks guys. I know exactly where you are coming from and i just want to get it right before a sparky comes around and i waste his time and my money. 

I do my own 12v wiring but 240v is in a totally different league, i dont ever wire up 240v as the damage that can be cause isnt something i wish to experience. I will look over my batten fix setups and see if i can find a soloution.

So i need 3 core wire and it must be earthed to the enclosure i choose using a lug.

All connections in wires must be covered as far as in away, are the little 40a connectors fine if in a junction box?

**** This is not diy wiring, no power will be installed by me****


Rick


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

You do not necessarily want to bond it to your enclosure. Earth bonding is designed to limit the voltage of any accessible electrically conductive parts in order to reduce the risk of electric shock. Your ballast will have 240 volts connected to it and has a metal conductive case, in the event of an internal fault which may cause 240 volts to contact the metal casing the earth bond is there to limit the rise in voltage and reduce the risk that you may receive an electric shock. There are many rules around how this is done and what size conductor to use , all of this should be know by the electrical contractor you engage to wire this light up.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

Alright. I might get him to come around and suss it all out with me when im about ready. 


Rick


----------



## Bluetongue1 (May 7, 2013)

I suspect you’ll find that the ballast does not get any hotter than say a 100W light globe or a 60W CHE – way too hot for the fingers but given space and air flow around it, not a fire hazard. Light globes in boxes made primarily of peg board used to heat snake cages before other heating devices were available.

Water with any solutes in it is the biggest danger in producing an electrical fault. Exposed wiring, even inside electrical connectors, if accessible to dust can be a problem. In particularly humid weather, atmospheric humidity can condense around the dust particles. If their is a continuous layer of water between different connections or something metal, then an electric current can flow if there are solutes in that water. Salt from air that has travelled over oceans is not insignificant over time. Rainfall annually deposits from 20 kg/ha inland up to 300 kg/ha in coastal areas.

The earth wire is so called because it runs from an electrical appliance directly into the earth. Where copper water pipes are used, the earth wire is often attached where they go into the ground. If plastic pipes are used, then the earth is usually attached to a star picket driven halfway or more into the ground. The earth is like a big sink that will readily absorb free electrons without building up a charge or any resistance to more. When a lightening bolt hits the earth, there is no charge remaining at the point of entry, despite the massive electrical charge involved.

Electricity takes the path of least resistance. So if it had a choice between 3 units of resistance and 1 unit, ¼ of the current would go the 3 unit path and ¾ of it the 1 unit path. A faulty electrical device allows electricity to flow to its casing. If you touch the casing, electricity will flow through your body into the earth. An earth wire provides much less resistance than the human body and so more current will flow via the earth wire and less through you. 

In a sentence: Earth wires take most of any leaking current directly to earth.

Blue

PS. You should also have an RCD = Residual Current Device. “Residual” in maths is the amount remaining when you take one number away from another i.e. the difference. An RCD measures the current going into a house and the current coming out. They should be equal. If there is a difference (a residual) it means current is leaking out of the electrical circuits within the house and all electrical power is immediately cut. The speed with which these work has saved many lives.

How’s that for a layman’s explanation *Snowman*? (apart from long-winded LOL)


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

Very good


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Blue, you are mostly correct in what you are saying but in Queensland and possibly most other states all electrical installations are to have their own dedicated earth electrode and sometimes there can be a bond (equipotential) to the copper water pipes. The earth electrode and its position has a set of rules that determine it is suitable for purpose. The earth electrode is in place as a path for electricity to return to is source as all electricity will try and get back to its place of origin and this stake does not aid in the operation of an RCD but your explanation of of the RCD is very good. As another little fact to add to your repertoire is that when a power line falls to the ground mainly high voltage you can receive an electric shock without touching the wire, this is because of phenomenon called step potential and it is due to the poor connection (high resistance) to the general mass of earth. At the point of contact there will be full line voltage and it will not reach 0 volts until a certain distance away (depending on the voltage and ground material) , as you walk towards the wire there will be a voltage difference from one foot to another providing a possible second path for electrons to flow.


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

In the cbd of Melbourne I've been told an urban legend that if you drive two earth electrodes into the ground 50m apart you can get a light globe to glow. Something to do with leaked current and difference in potential. Can't recall the full specifics, but an electrical inspector I used to work with swore it was true.


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Snowman said:


> In the cbd of Melbourne I've been told an urban legend that if you drive two earth electrodes into the ground 50m apart you can get a light globe to glow. Something to do with leaked current and difference in potential. Can't recall the full specifics, but an electrical inspector I used to work with swore it was true.


Sounds like an urban myth to me, the mass of ground is said to have zero resistance and it is the connection to earth that is of high resistance. I know practically that it can't be zero and different materials have different resistivity but generally for calculation they call it zero.


----------



## Snowman (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Sounds like an urban myth to me, the mass of ground is said to have zero resistance and it is the connection to earth that is of high resistance. I know practically that it can't be zero and different materials have different resistivity but generally for calculation they call it zero.


That was my thinking too. But apparently the different depths of earth stakes creates a potential and a wire and light between them is less resistance. We all had money bet on the outcome. But no one ever did the experiment.


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Snowman said:


> That was my thinking too. But apparently the different depths of earth stakes creates a potential and a wire and light between them is less resistance. We all had money bet on the outcome. But no one ever did the experiment.


I will have to try and get my mind around that one a bit more. Once the NBN is built we could try it between WA and Queensland, as long as it is the same across Australia as here(fibre inside and aluminium outside).


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

Spoke to a mate from work, worked an electrical apprentice (drop out yr 4 as company went under). He said as an unqualified electrician he could still give advice in what im doing.

He suggested that i crimp the earth wire (from wall plug) and screw it into the ballast mounting plate/casing, said this would be a sufficient way of grounding it. Im guessing no one qualified can answer this question but i will ask my sparky and see what he says. 

Some of you guys really know your fields, its good to see that you are willing to provide direction for us trying to wrap our heads around it.


Rick


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Rogue5861 said:


> Spoke to a mate from work, worked an electrical apprentice (drop out yr 4 as company went under). He said as an unqualified electrician he could still give advice in what im doing.
> 
> He suggested that i crimp the earth wire (from wall plug) and screw it into the ballast mounting plate/casing, said this would be a sufficient way of grounding it. Im guessing no one qualified can answer this question but i will ask my sparky and see what he says.
> 
> ...


Anyone even those without any training can give advice but whether that advice is sound or not is another story. You are best to just leave it for the sparky that you intend on getting since he will be there anyway.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Anyone even those without any training can give advice but whether that advice is sound or not is another story. You are best to just leave it for the sparky that you intend on getting since he will be there anyway.



Apparently a qualifed sparky cant give exact answers on whether it is right or wrong, ethics maybe?

Mounted ballasts and put everything in the right spots, just need to mount heat lamps and im all set ready for him to finish off.

Temps of the ballast was around 70c, about 150f so i was just reading wrong temp on my gun. I dont think this should be a drama but will insert a tile between ballasts and melamine just incase.

Thanks all for the help, next time i will know.


Rick


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

Not a good idea to give away all of our secrets or maybe I am just not qualified.


----------



## andynic07 (May 7, 2013)

If an electrician gave you a step by step guide to wiring a power point ( yes it sounds easy) and somehow you or someone else got killed I would really hate to be that electrician.


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 7, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> If an electrician gave you a step by step guide to wiring a power point ( yes it sounds easy) and somehow you or someone else got killed I would really hate to be that electrician.



Yep, thats what im saying. It really is crazy the amount of people that understimate electricity and end up with a fire or get shocked. 


Rick


----------



## Skeptic (May 7, 2013)

I've electrocuted myself twice through DIY. One time I was literally hanging onto two purlins in an industrial shed about 6 metres off the ground. Thank god for circuit breakers  You're always better off leaving it to the professionals when it comes to stuff that can kill you.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (May 9, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Blue, you are mostly correct in what you are saying but....


 Sorry but I consider that “mostly correct” is not an accurate appraisal. It was quite deliberate That I did not mention multiple earth electrodes or equipotential bonding or earthing networks etc. I could also have talked about the need for thermal throw out switches / fuses or the effects of different soles on footwear or the hazards of working in wet areas ect. I kept the example given purposely simple, and avoided use of technical terms where possible, to provide an overall uncomplicated explanation. 



andynic07 said:


> The earth electrode is in place as a path for electricity to return to is source as all electricity will try and get back to its place of origin....


This is not correct. Take lightening for example. It originates in the atmosphere and can flow back into the atmosphere (cloud to cloud discharge) or into the earth (cloud to earth discharge). RWhat What I have previously said about an “electrical sink” can be found on the net and in texts 



andynic07 said:


> ....and this stake does not aid in the operation of an RCD.....


I do not know why you made this comment. I did not link the two, even though they are linked. An RCD is essentially an earth leakage circuit breaker that works by detecting the fault current. 

Thanks for the info on Step Potential. I was aware of the danger of high voltages at a distance. I knew that current from downed high tension wire would travel some distance due to the very high emf. What I did not understand was why it entered the body. With the rate of voltage drop-off and the high voltages involved, the potential difference involved in the distance of one step could result in a fatal level of voltage. Thanks again for that.

Blue


----------



## Rogue5861 (May 9, 2013)

spongebob said:


> Post deleted



Please check title of thread and direct mod to the exact post you are refering to, no one has suggesting diy wiring at all and it was all installed by a licenced electrician.

Thread can be closed/deleted as i have my answer, ballasts are not hot enough to cause a fire (70c).


Rick


----------



## J-A-X (May 9, 2013)

The only reason this is still going is to help educate people of the potential dangers of Electrical wiring gone wrong. No where does it state that the OP should be doing it himself and the OP has said that a qualified electrician will be doing the wiring so we can only hope they stick to that statement. 
Snowman and AndyNic are qualified. So their statements stay. 

@ Spongebob. 
Your public comments against the moderation of the thread is in itself an infractable offence, but because you're trying to protect others I will not infract but just delete the post. Any objections should be submitted via a ticket to the support centre


----------



## andynic07 (May 9, 2013)

Blue, I thought you did do a very good job in layman's terms but the particular sentence that I was trying to correct was "Where copper water pipes are used, the earth wire is often attached where they go into the ground. If plastic pipes are used, then the earth is usually attached to a star picket driven halfway or more into the ground" and the reason I tried to correct it was that to me this sentence suggests that it is the copper water pipe that is used for the primary earth electrode and if unavailable then a star picket is to be used? I can understand that you were possibly using a star picket to represent the earth electrode so people would visually get a good idea of what is trying to be achieved but my main objection was that whether a copper water pipe entering the ground is available or not an earth electrode must be present by law in Queensland and possibly other states. As for your point about lightning , this is static and acts quite similar but also quite differently to the generated electricity. With generated electricity ( and I know static is also generated and electricity) it will always try to get back to its source of supply, I will give you some examples that you can google that may show you this. Firstly in rural areas of Queensland they use a type of high voltage transmission system called S.W.E.R. and this stands for single wire earth return and it is exactly as it sounds , it uses a single wire out to a transformer and uses the earth as the return path. Secondly I will use our three wire high voltage system that we use in most other parts of Queensland, most of the power transformers at our substations (33KV to 11KV) will have a winding configuration called delta/star meaning the primary windings are connected in a delta style and the secondary windings are connected in a star style. What this means is the secondary windings will be given an earth reference and this is done so we can put a protection system into place to shut off supply if a wire falls down to earth. What this does is uses the earth to provide a path back to the transformer where it comes from and this current flow can then be measured and circuit breakers tripped. Without this reference to earth at the power transformer a wire would be able to fall to the ground and nothing happen.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (May 10, 2013)

The specific requirements in NSW, Vic and WA are not the same as those of Queensland. I don’t know about the rest as I got tired of looking. This statement comes from the Western Power website: “The earth wires from power points join to a main earth wire, which is attached to a metal pipe and/or special metal electrode (metal stake) driven into the ground.” Western Power: Earth wireshttp://www.westernpower.com.au/safety/Earth_Wires.html. Clearly there are difference requirements in different states, something that neither of us were aware of.

The earth electrode is in place as a path for electricity to return to is source as all electricity will try and get back to its place of origin. Our electricity originates from power stations above ground, not the earth. I don’t dispute that electricity will readily enter and leave the earth. It does because of the nature of the earth’s surface layer not because it is wants to return to its origins. I have yet to hear of rounded electricity entering the earth wires below power stations or even transformers. I understand that the current from the secondary coil in the step-down transformer can be effectively short-circuited by grounding it, thereby allowing work on power lines. The electricity does not return to coil, in which it was induced, not the earth. Being AC, current will flow in and out of the earth.

I believe our different perspectives are related to the language used to describe electricity. The notions of a closed “circuit” and a “return path” are a hangover from Edison and direct current days. We say that an earth wire provides a “return path”. What it really means is that electricity requires somewhere to flow or all current in the given wiring will stop. The earth’s surface layer is able to provide that “somewhere to flow” and can therefore “complete circuits”.

Blue


----------



## andynic07 (May 10, 2013)

Whilst the water pipe method is still used as it is a legacy way of doing things the new standard AS 3000 does state that a dedicated earth electrode buried at a certain depth in the ground must be used. I have seen first hand the problems of an insufficient earth electrode, this electrode is there to limit the rise in potential by providing a path for current to flow in the event that there is damage to the any part of the neutral circuit and if there is a piece of corroded galvanised pipe in the ground this can provide a very high resistance, generally the primary fuse on a house will be between 30 amps and 80 amps so if the earth to electrode resistance is any more than 10 ohms the electrode will not blow the primary fuse. I do not have access to an actual AS 3000 at the moment but here is an extract that refers to the AS 3000 which I believe is right "The majority of the electrical distribution systems in Australia require a connection between thesupply neutral and the customer’s earth system at each property, known as the Multiple EarthNeutral (MEN). This provides a safety back up to protect the electrical installation should acustomers earthing system become defective. In NSW, MEN bonding became the preferentialsystem in the 1960’s based on the metallic water reticulation system.
Prior to July 1976 most properties depended on their metallic water service pipes as part of theproperty’s electrical main earthing system. Properties built after 1976 are required to conform toAustralian Standards AS/NZS 3000 (Electrical Wiring Rules) and generally have a 1.2 mvertically buried earth rod that serves as the primary earth electrode.  ". As for this statement "I understand that the current from the secondary coil in the step-down transformer can be effectively short-circuited by grounding it, thereby allowing work on power lines. The electricity does not return to coil, in which it was induced, not the earth" I am not 100% sure what you are referring to but I have the feeling that you may be confusing the permanent star point placed on the secondary side of a power transformer with what I call "line earths" which are a set of temporary wires short circuiting all three wires and bonds them to earth either through the LV neutral on a bonded earthing system or through a tested earth electrode on a separate earthing system which is put in place on a de-energised high voltage line to limit the rise in potential of that line and operate protection whilst it is being worked on in the event that the line is inadvertently energised. I think that you may be right in the fact that we are both getting caught up in industry lingo which may be confusing the intent of our statements, I know that I am guilty of this because it has been a long time since I have completed my apprenticeship so the main literature that I read now is Energex specific.

Thanks
Andrew


----------



## Bluetongue1 (May 10, 2013)

Standards introduced in 2007 do not invalidate my original comment, which applies to houses of all ages. However, it is useful to know about current trends and this can be incorporated in any future explanation of earth wiring and function. Hopefully I have addressed any shortcomings in the original with the following re-write...
“Houses used to use just their metal water pipes, where they go into the ground. This is no longer considered acceptable and nowadays a metal rod, such as a star picket, driven a metre plus into the ground, is utilised. Where there are copper water pipes, they will likely be wired up to the metal rod to give even more contact with the earth.” 

No I am not confusing the star point with the “temporary earths”. I deliberately used the term “grounded” instead of “earthed” to see what response it elicited. It has a specific meaning as applied to electricity and varies slightly to the word “earthed”.

My apologies. The following sentence was incorrect: “The electricity does not return to coil, in which it was induced, not the earth.” It such have read: “The electricity does not return to the coil, in which it was induced and therefore its origin, but into the earth.”

Blue


----------



## Snowman (May 10, 2013)

J-A-X said:


> The only reason this is still going is to help educate people of the potential dangers of Electrical wiring gone wrong. No where does it state that the OP should be doing it himself and the OP has said that a qualified electrician will be doing the wiring so we can only hope they stick to that statement.
> Snowman and AndyNic are qualified. So their statements stay.
> 
> @ Spongebob.
> Your public comments against the moderation of the thread is in itself an infractable offence, but because you're trying to protect others I will not infract but just delete the post. Any objections should be submitted via a ticket to the support centre



technically he isn't wiring it anyway. It's a pre wired light fitting. It just doesn't conform to Australian standards.


----------



## andynic07 (May 10, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Blue


Blue, you seem to have quite a broard knowledge base from the conversations with you and other posts of yours that I have read. Can I ask what formal learning you have completed and what you do or did as your occupation throughout time?


----------

