# Goanna kills dog and bites elderly couple



## RoryBreaker (Aug 16, 2019)

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-16/queensland-couple-attacked-by-goanna-dog-killed/11420144


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## dragonlover1 (Aug 16, 2019)

biased reporting once again, the dog (with small man syndrome ) attacked the goanna who defended itself ,the people interfered trying to save the dog.You know what happens when you interfere in an animal fight !
Sorry the people were injured but the dog got what it deserved. The dog should have been on a leash to start with.


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## Tobe404 (Aug 16, 2019)

Does it say any where what sort of Monitor it actually was? Guess would be Lace but could of possibly been a Yellow Spotted or Sand also?


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## dragonlover1 (Aug 16, 2019)

Tobe404 said:


> Does it say any where what sort of Monitor it actually was? Guess would be Lace but could of possibly been a Yellow Spotted or Sand also?


definitely a lacie


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## nuttylizardguy (Aug 17, 2019)

I suppose it's open season up there now on all BIG lizards.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Aug 17, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> biased reporting once again, the dog (with small man syndrome ) attacked the goanna who defended itself ,the people interfered trying to save the dog.You know what happens when you interfere in an animal fight !
> Sorry the people were injured but the dog got what it deserved. The dog should have been on a leash to start with.


Jack Russell Terriers, even ones depicted in the story that aren't pure bred should never be walked off leash... they are a genuine hunting breed right to their very core and will readily attack anything and everything regardless of its size, they have a bonafide No fear mentality. I'm 100% with you on this one that the elderly couple were in the wrong and the dog initiated the altercation... it's what JRT's do and do very well. My own Jack's admittedly and unfortunateky have dispatched several reptiles, snakes and monitors that have made it into my immediate house yard but whenever I'm out and about with them in the bush they are kept on a very short leash until our target (wild dogs) are acquired.


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## cement (Nov 17, 2019)

Dogs are mammals and they have emotions unlike reptiles. We lose around 5-10 dogs here on the central coast every year to snake bite, and it is always the dog attacking the snake because of protective or territorial instinct. They can be trained not to attack snakes and I have done it successfully with a Jack Russell in the past. I do know of a couple of food response attacks by pythons on puppies though.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 17, 2019)

Next to impossible to train the drive out of a purebred Jack Russell. Generations of line breeding have instilled it in them and to be honest, I wouldn't change it. My Jack's have saved my life a few times now from snakes.


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## cement (Nov 17, 2019)

well I guess I achieved the impossible. Saved your life from snakes? A few times? Really?
Ive been relocating snakes for long enough to have ended up in positions where a bite on the face from a large ven could easily have occurred if the snake chose to, from being under cars to other tight situations where all you can do is remain still and hope for the best. I've had two bites from only mildly venomous species in 15 years and one of them was because I accidentally pinched the tail in a porta cot mechanism as I tried to get it out, therefore hurting the animal, which made it bite out of pain.
Never in all this time have I ever needed a dog or anything, or anyone to "save me" from a species of animal that wants nothing to do with us, regardless of how an encounter occurs. This includes dealings with large eastern browns and oversize blacks, large tigers, Stephen's, adders and also multiple sea snake encounters. The ONLY reason a snake will bite is out of defence or for food, so seeing that we aren't their food, that only leaves defence in your case, so you are obviously doing something wrong.
You should be very careful about your dogs taking on snakes, quite often they kill each other.

Ive also had plenty of dogs over the years and I have a pretty good understanding of their psychology, and looking at your photo it wouldn't be to much to say that at a guess with more than one dog they would act with a pack mentality when it comes to reptiles. Also read a post you put up about your dogs making chop suey from snake, which smacked of a proud little dog owner who couldn't give a #[email protected]% if their dogs killed wildlife.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 17, 2019)

Yeah man honestly don't really give 2 ****s what you think. I stepped straight on a brown right on my back door step after getting home from work. I'm not a snake handler or experienced snake catcher and nor will I ever aspire to be, my dog is my go to ven snake handler and he is way more competent at it than I'll ever be. I live in the middle of suburbia in the concrete jungle and have 2 pre-teen daughters that play in our back yard. If there's vens that come onto my block and my dogs destroy them then they've earned their keep. Simple as that. Dead snake or dead daughter, real hard choice. Also my Jack's will act solo on a snake and tear it to pieces, pack mentality comes into play when they're hunting foxes or wild dogs. You wanna argue psychology and **** be my guest, changes nothing. I work with blokes that actively go out and shoot brown and black snakes 3 times a week around here with shot guns, I don't go looking for snakes to kill, never have never will, but my own back yard is a snake free zone for obvious reasons. Don't like my attitude or view on that, tell someone who cares. And I'll never worry about my dogs, they're Jacks, the most competent breed on the planet for snake handling other than a damn mongoose.

I also have about half a dozen resident blue tongues in my yard that have lived here well before I did and large green tree frogs that frolic around the back patio most summer nights... my dogs seem to know the difference between a harmless skink, frog and a deadly snake, they've never attacked a blue tongue or tree frog, they've never been trained to not do so. They make a hell of a racket and bail them up though but have never hurt one. So your pack mentality psychological analysis is complete BS. Don't act like you know me or my animals and experiences.... because, you don't have a ****ing clue.



And if a cat comes in the yard... better call the fire brigade.

And no I'm not a redneck who hates snakes and tries to kill them at every opportunity, I actually stop to get them off the road before some idiot swerves to run them over. So call me what you want, yep, my dogs killed a ven in my back yard... saved me and possibly my daughters a trip to emergency... and I am a proud little-big dog owner. Any other dog would be dead.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 17, 2019)

My German Shepherds will draw my attention to a snake and keep a safe distance till I come and remove it, they also herd people and other animals away from the danger and no I did not train them to do this but they have watched me removing snakes and are aware of my parrots or even wild birds calls when a snake is present.
That is intelligent behaviour not mindlessly attacking any snake, venomous or not.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 17, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> My German Shepherds will draw my attention to a snake and keep a safe distance till I come and remove it, they also herd people and other animals away from the danger and no I did not train them to do this but they have watched me removing snakes and are aware of my parrots or even wild birds calls when a snake is present.
> That is intelligent behaviour not mindlessly attacking any snake, venomous or not.


I have always had German shepherds, my dad was a huge fan of them and I grew up with shepherd's, getting another one in 2 months time, comparing them to other breeds, especially hunting breeds is like chalk and cheese. Shepherds are just that, shepherds, not hunters. Your dog is acting just like the breed was bred to, as are mine... Just like shepherd's are not sled dogs and beagles aren't guide dogs. Greyhounds aren't airport security dogs, farmers don't use daschunds to herd sheep and cattle... Every breed has its own unique traits.
If you want to talk intelligence when it comes to dogs, the top 15 most intelligent breeds on the planet, Jack's come in at #15 and shepherds come in at #3. Like I said, chalk and cheese in that department but when it comes to boldness, bravery, assertiveness, dominance and downright fearlessness, Jack's are #1.


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## GBWhite (Nov 17, 2019)

cement said:


> Dogs are mammals and they have emotions unlike reptiles. We lose around 5-10 dogs here on the central coast every year to snake bite, and it is always the dog attacking the snake because of protective or territorial instinct. They can be trained not to attack snakes and I have done it successfully with a Jack Russell in the past. I do know of a couple of food response attacks by pythons on puppies though.



Hi Cement. Been a while. I hope you're keeping well. Yeah I've bred and sold pure bred Jacks for the past 30 years and the ones I've kept have all been trained not to go any where near snakes or lizards (or our free range chooks for that matter). Not that hard really if you want to put in the time. I get plenty of RBB's, Common Tree Snakes, other small elapids, Carpets, Blue Tongues, Water Dragons & Lacies here pretty regularly and when one shows up they just stand off and bark.

There was an interesting project run by the University of Melbourne a couple of years ago where data collected showed around 70% of dogs bitten by snakes happened in the owner's yard and 1 in 10 bites happened to Jack Russell Terriers. Also have a lot of friends on properties around Inverell that keep them as snake and rodent catchers that have lost plenty over the years from snake bite. Seems that as good as they are they usually end up getting bitten.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 17, 2019)

Lol classic. They breed 'em tougher up here even trained mine to fly in the back yard pool.. easy enough.


Seen a few foxies and Tenterfield Terriers wind up on the wrong end of a snake in these parts but no Jack's yet and don't know anyone here bitten by an RBB either.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 17, 2019)

sounds like a lot of he said she said, I'm not gonna get involved. I know that jacks are great rat killers, it's part of their DNA so that is probably part of their problem as well


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## cement (Nov 18, 2019)

Wow, I'm not really sure what made you arc up so much there, FP are you feeling a bit sensitive today mate?Don't remember calling you anything except a proud little dog owner?? Redneck?? Thats your words, and if your not one then your work mates definitly are. Fark me, I'll tell you what though its pretty obvious you don't understand snakes, so all I'm doing is hopefully enlightening anybody who wants to listen about their instinctive behaviour. I'm not bullshitting when I say they kill each other, I have had Jack Russell killed here only last year, and as far as training them being near on impossible, it isn't. It also took me a week to catch the snake the dog didn't injure it at all in any way, so be warned. Thanks George.,... Yep I been well and had more fun doing the broad headed survey last month. Some very positive results.

Anyway, for you FP, I'll ignore your rant, though I did get a laugh so by all means keep em coming, but in the interest of doing the RIGHT thing, I'll even give you (and anyone else who cares) a few tips on how to be snake wise around the house, because I don't care how inflated your opinion of your dogs are, one day sooner or later if they attack vens
there's a pretty good chance they will die. Little dogs don't do very well at all with venom, and a RBBS will kill a Jack Russel no problem at all, and they aren't even considered that toxic. So if a brown gets a fang in, your dog will not survive, even if you get it to the vet alive, very unlikely... they will not be able to save it. The smallest dog I have seen survive a bite (and from only a 3ft RBBS) was a staffy, but it was a huge staffy (biggest I have ever seen) but it was touch and go and spent a week in at the vets costing the owner not hundreds but thousands. Ive always trained my dogs not to attack reptiles because I care about my dogs AND wildlife, and my wallet to be honest.

A brown snake that comes into your yard, and is at your backdoor is there for a reason. Food. Now if you feed your dogs in the back yard or have water bowls out for them, or even if you don't, (our houses breathe, and air comes in and out of them dragging the smell of food with it, under doors etc, depending on different air pressure inside and out. You can trust me on this I am actually a fully lic builder and chippy for over 30 years) Rats and mice know theres a water bowl, or tiny little food scraps, bones maybe and even if not they can smell what's in your house, and they want in. They do laps around our houses at 2-3am when no-ones around and leave a scent trail. The snakes follow this trail and that's why you have a snake at your backdoor. It is beneficial for people (especially if you know theres a ven hanging around, or a python for that matter, because they all work the same way) to hose down around your paths, decks, doors and even lower half of the walls (if its a grippy surface like bricks or cedar cladding that a rodent can climb) and wash away any scent. I would hate to hear of one of your daughters getting tagged, or your dogs, but you.......well ...yeah ok even you
Your daughters are old enough to know to give them a wide berth, and my advice is also to keep a Tupperware container with the correct type of bandages, or go online and buy the First Aid Kit for Bites and Stings from St Johns, and keep it where everyone knows and teach everyone how to apply. With the correct first aid there will be no deaths.
Even for dogs, the first aid is the same, but in the case of little dogs like yours it won't help, they just don't have the body mass, and dogs get bitten on the face usually the lips so it's hard to manage.

I don't know if there ever been any studies done on this but it may not be too wild a stab to say there could possibly be more snakes in suburbia and around housing then in the bush.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 18, 2019)

Good on ya, I read the 1st 3 lines of that and skipped to the end. Hardly need help regarding my dogs or snakes in the yard, not like it happens every day. But, it will happen again and I'll back the dog/s every time, regardless of your doubts/worries/opinions/superstitions/etc. Not our 1st rodeo, won't be our last. 

There's one reason that snake was here... water. We're in drought, obviously, it's as dry as it's ever been and I keep turtles, my property has a pool and ponds. Water is the ONLY reason it was here and I'm not getting rid of them any time soon am I, so when the snakes come a calling, the dogs will do what they're here to do, serve and protect. If that upsets you in any way shape or form, well hey, this isn't Utopia.


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## cement (Nov 19, 2019)

Your a classic horn blower. You don't know sand from clay when it comes to snakes,.... except your own redneck fear.
Go back to your Jack Russell forum and talk your tough guy crap over there, at least you'll get the recognition you crave. You got all upset being proven wrong, don't like that aye?Can't train a Jack Russel..... shows how much you know about your favourite dog.

Upset me?? You couldn't rattle my cage if you beat it with a lead pipe you small minded imbecile. If I put my daughters heart in your chest it would rattle you to death.

I'm posting info for people who want to learn about snakes, if you want to go to a personal level, fine, but if your going to post crap like this it's pretty disrespectful to everyone who actually comes on here to learn about snakes or appreciates them. 

Too the newbies out there that read these posts - This guy and his ideas are nothing but fear based and detrimental with a total lack of true care or responsibility towards wildlife or his own dogs. These ignorant, uneducated, fearful people are out there, but hey this ain't Utopia.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 19, 2019)

Cement, you are 100% right about food being the attraction, I live on 5 acres of mostly rainforest and surrounded by a nature reserve. I have aviary birds plus a large rodent breeding set-up that are a constant attraction to the local snakes of all types plus the odd lace monitor. I've stopped counting but the first year here I relocated over 30 snakes, mostly carpets but a few elapids including EB's and pesky Stephens that have a habit of getting under doors of my rodent areas and hiding under or in anything on the floor. I also have ponds, bird baths etc that attract plenty of wildlife but not snakes and I have not sighted a RBB so possibly the cane toads got them, locals tell me they used to be prolific.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Nov 19, 2019)

cement said:


> spent a week in at the vets costing the owner not hundreds but thousands.



Not wrong there. Mate of mine had a Staffy that was bitten by an EB. Cost him 14k in vets bills.


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## cement (Nov 19, 2019)

Cheers,
The truth has a way of coming out sooner or later!
Unless the snake followed the scent trail of the water as it crawled down the street and into his pool...... oh nah that wouldn't be right.....snakes don't drink pool water
Think I'll leave it at that.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 19, 2019)

cement said:


> Your a classic horn blower. You don't know sand from clay when it comes to snakes,.... except your own redneck fear.
> Go back to your Jack Russell forum and talk your tough guy crap over there, at least you'll get the recognition you crave. You got all upset being proven wrong, don't like that aye?Can't train a Jack Russel..... shows how much you know about your favourite dog.
> 
> Upset me?? You couldn't rattle my cage if you beat it with a lead pipe you small minded imbecile. If I put my daughters heart in your chest it would rattle you to death.
> ...


Can't train a Jack Russel?? LMFAO More BS from you.. I was training them in Baghdad while you were still in your dad's bag. My dogs are working dogs not lap companions so you are way off... Why would I want a Jack Russell that does't go near a snake?? Makes a lot of sense. Might as well have a Chihuahua. You haven't proven me wrong at all... All you can say is "your dog will get bitten and die"... WRONG. How many Jacks have I lost to snake bite?? 0. I've seen 3 "little dogs" in the last 5 years bitten by browns... 2 foxies and 1 was a dachshund in Oakey and it was taken to a vet 3 hours after the bite when it started looking off, cost the bloke $900 and it was right as rain. The foxies were taken 45 mins and 1.5 hours after their bites and both survived. Looks like you think you know more than you do. And saying snakes aren't drawn in by water... LMFAO, You win the internet today for that ridiculous comment. FYI I could rattle you with a length of dental floss and my 7kg Jack Russell would have a bigger heart than your daughter, put it in her chest and she'll grow balls and be a more competent snake handler than you. I think you need to go and cure a little longer... Cement. LOL


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## cement (Nov 21, 2019)

if you were older then me your basic comprehension skills would be a lot better, and you would have found a remedy by now for your verbal diarrhoea. How old are you? 
I could taunt you a lot more, its like shooting fish in a barrel getting a rise out of a bloke with little dog syndrome, but I've got more important things to do bicker with a sensitive young boy, who needs a pack of dogs for his protection and servitude. gee, I could have fun with that one alone, "yes master", 

but its a family forum and out of respect for the site owner and moderators who have done a great job since the early days, Have a nice day.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 21, 2019)

cement said:


> if you were older then me your basic comprehension skills would be a lot better, and you would have found a remedy by now for your verbal diarrhoea. How old are you?
> I could taunt you a lot more, its like shooting fish in a barrel getting a rise out of a bloke with little dog syndrome, but I've got more important things to do bicker with a sensitive young boy, who needs a pack of dogs for his protection and servitude. gee, I could have fun with that one alone, "yes master",
> 
> but its a family forum and out of respect for the site owner and moderators who have done a great job since the early days, Have a nice day.


Yeah yeah. Thanks for the laughs buddy, in future, perhaps think before taking unwarranted digs at people you don't know about things you know nothing about and don't bite off more than you can chew. Grab another teaspoon of yourself and harden up. Have a good one.
Cheers.


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## cement (Nov 21, 2019)

Oh hullo again snake killer. 

Who needs to be hard to talk tough on a computer? This all started because you didn't like being called a proud little dog owner......pretty obvious that's not BS, look at the lengths you've taken to talk them up. I'll take digs at anyone who I try to extend the olive branch to by explaining the right way to deal with snakes. Only to have it thrown back in my face followed by a torrent of dribble.

I don't care about you or your dogs, I care about getting the right message out there to help conserve our NATIVE wildlife. You are a wildlife killer, a pussy, the worst kind of pussy actually, because you'll happily send a another animal in to do what everyone else on here knows is the wrong thing. 
I know enough about dogs, to know their stupid blind loyalty to their "master" or "leader" or whatever you want to call it, can mean their death. I'm no stranger to living in the bush, and I know exactly how some folk see their dogs. I've been around longer then you but that doesn't make me a better person. 

We can run a forum poll and see who thinks which of us is right. The snake killer or the snake relocator. Would you be up for this?
[doublepost=1574291367,1574291144][/doublepost]I'm up 8-2 on the post likes, pretty good odds in my favour.


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## danyjv (Nov 21, 2019)

Lucky we don’t have an end of year Xmas party for this forum hey guys . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 21, 2019)

cement said:


> Oh hullo again snake killer.
> 
> Who needs to be hard to talk tough on a computer? This all started because you didn't like being called a proud little dog owner......pretty obvious that's not BS, look at the lengths you've taken to talk them up. I'll take digs at anyone who I try to extend the olive branch to by explaining the right way to deal with snakes. Only to have it thrown back in my face followed by a torrent of dribble.
> 
> ...


Oh hello again bestie.... Bla bla bla... snakes come into suburban back yards every day, seen half a dozen stories alone already of where domestic cats were killed and consumed by coastal carpets... what's your response to that?? Let me guess ... sh*t happens... well guess what buddy, that's right, sh*t does happen and the snakes don't always win and call me what you want, pussy, wow original... LMFAO... my back yard, my rules and the rule is no vens. I'll happily let the dogs tear every brown to pieces if it means my kids won't end up bitten by one while innocently playing in the back yard. You're acting like I'm taking the dogs bush to hunt snakes and have a big free for all... you sound like a half-baked effing idiot...in these encounters snakes die and pets can die... as long as no innocent children die.... such is life. Get over it. You don't care about me or my dogs.... Fantastic! I don't care equally about your whining, bitching and sooking.. sticks and stones eh. The Jack's are MY snake repellers that actually work.... not yours or anyone else's problem is it. So.... have at it. I live in the middle of the 2nd biggest inland city in Australia.... where should I relocate it to, over the fence so it can be my neighbour's problem and risk my own life doing so?? Lol thanks for the stupid advice, think I'll pass and I Couldn't care freaking less what you think. 

If it makes you feel better, I did actually take the brown to the vet with my dog when he had his snake venom test... unfortunately there was nothing the vet could do to save him/her.

Wow 8-2 to you... I work with 700+ blokes that see it otherwise, except they use firearms on rural properties and feedlots not a dog so Nice try. I'm hardly going to discharge any of my firearms in the middle of suburbia.

Oh crap, I just squashed a redback spider that was under the BBQ on the patio.... come on lay it on me!!!!


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## cement (Nov 21, 2019)

Yap,yap,yap, suburban redneck wildlife killer. Don't try and preach to me about what happens in your stories you goose, I'm out there doing it for real A-hole. I know exactly how it works, I'm in the feild bagging them everyday and have been for 15 years. 

YOUR TOTAL LACK OF EXPERIENCE in this feild is why you ARE a full baked redneck f-wit. I might sound like like one but you trump that by sounding and acting like one.

Hey, your furry little four footed friends are over there with their bondage harnesses in their mouths killer, it is the end of the week, time for you to give them all their loyalty tugg.

Your kids could get tagged wether the dogs are there or not, have you even bothered teaching them what to do? Probably not. If you don't like being ridiculed have some farkin respect, this is snake forum D-head. People here don't like "C you next Tuesdays" killing ANY snake, at ANY time, because theres NO [email protected]#KING need to. 

Let's do a poll on it you troll... see what the people who do know snakes say.

On the respect note (a word you don't know), plenty of dedicated people have, and do, put their lives on the line to actually learn about these animals. And they'll give freely the knowledge they have. They're not all relocators, some are scientist, biologist, venom extractors, zoo keepers, wildlife surveyors, demonstrators, hobbyists etc, so if you want to bang on about how great your dogs are at killing snakes do it on your pathetic fox terrier dog tugger web site, not here. Cause I do have respect for all these people, the time they put in, and the bites they have weathered. I'm friends with many and not one would be happy to hear of your pseudo macho bullS%$#. 

Get over it?? Not likely ..... F%$# OFF clown!!


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 21, 2019)

Waaahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha... As expected you couldn't answer me, just more name-calling.

Triggered.

Gimme your number and I'll put you on speed dial for next time but you're gonna have to be here quick. 



You're gonna keep this going how long?? Agree to disagree and leave it at that. I broke no laws, My family is priority #1 and you're basically taking ALL the time in the world now to dissect something that literally unfolded in 30 seconds - I literally stepped out my back door, barefoot in boardies right onto a brown snake that went ape-sh*t. So whatever, be my guest, as I said, I couldn't care less what you call or think of me - "wildlife killer" well thankfully the endangered wildlife I bring into the world every year more than makes up for the piddly amount I'm responsible for "killing" so I have no problems sleeping at night. Conscience is clear. FYI I'm not a member of ANY "dog forum/s" so you can keep banging that line 'til the cows come home.
If you don't like what you saw, do as all the others on here who may not have liked it and say NOTHING. No one started any sh*t until you came along all high and mighty. This happened like 6 weeks ago! 

PS I've never disrespected the qualifications of any of the people in the fields you've mentioned above, I've NEVER once claimed to be an experienced snake handler, catcher/relocater so your insults are pointless as it's true so yeah kinda just supports my angle... YOU however are disrespecting MY right to act accordingly on MY own property (within the LAW might I add) and within MY own means and that is where this all started. YOU, no matter how excellent you are, do NOT get to preach to ME and lecture ME or ANYONE else for that matter that doesn't see eye to eye with you regardless of how you feel about that. It's that simple.


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## Blighty (Nov 21, 2019)

Talk about timing:



Was just scrolling through when I saw that one. I'm obviously not going to get into it, it was just a sad irony to read that when this topic is going on here at the moment.


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## RoryBreaker (Nov 22, 2019)

Wow this thread has got some legs!

I'm sitting on the fence with this one.

The forum needs a bit of emotional banter like this from time to time.


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## mrkos (Nov 22, 2019)

Been around many forums long enough to know both you guys have some cred in the reptile world but seriously shut the **** up with the personal digs on each other you have both taken it too far that’s why no one is on here anymore and agree to disagree in saying that nothing better than an old fashion aps argument


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## Yellowtail (Nov 22, 2019)

I know there are rednecks out there that disagree and I have had this argument here before but the facts are it is illegal to harm protected native animals including all snakes so to promote any behaviour including keeping "snake killing dogs" is not what we should be doing here, it is a bad example to the young people on this site.
I live on a property crawling with snakes and I happily coexist with them, my dogs leave them alone, my birds are in snake proof aviaries and I move any that are a problem as I did with one last night that was annoying my Yellowtail girl. My dogs are very good at protecting any visiting children without killing any snakes.


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## -Adam- (Nov 22, 2019)

Hi Yellowtail...



Yellowtail said:


> I know there are rednecks out there that disagree and I have had this argument here before but the facts are it is illegal to harm protected native animals including all snakes so to promote any behaviour including keeping "snake killing dogs" is not what we should be doing here, it is a bad example to the young people on this site.



Given the nature of this thread so far I want to first start off with this is a humble and honest question - I mean no disrespect and am not promoting one or the other side in this - I only post this question to find out actual facts:

It was my understanding that some states have an exemption to the law for snakes within a certain distance of an occupied property. Is this no longer the case?

It was also my understanding that there were exemptions for life threatening situations (such as standing on one)? (Honest question - I'm not promoting nor discouraging nor looking for a debate as to what is considered life threatening or what options are available - just looking for clarification on _legal_ facts).

Finally - I was of the understanding that intentionally killing one (outside of the exemptions if there are any) is illegal - but having a cat or dog kill one is not illegal. Think of (shudder) cats killing native wildlife in people's own backyards. If this was not the case - I would image almost every cat owner could be charged quite considerably for their cats damage, let alone a dog who kills a snake.

Again - to clarify - I an neither promoting nor discouraging - just trying to find clarification of what is illegal and what is not for the above situations.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 22, 2019)

It is absolutely illegal to go out into the wild to seek out and recklessly and senslessly kill any snakes or reptiles, it is however NOT illegal to dispatch any dangerous snake which poses a direct threat on private property, whether you destroy it personally yourself or have a pet do it. That is the facts. And what constitutes a "direct threat" varies greatly across the board and is not subject to scrutiny by any formal criteria.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 22, 2019)

Snakes do not attach humans, they only bite as a defensive reaction. Accidentally stepping on a snake is no excuse to kill it and humans should be smart enough and educate their children to take care where you step especially when moving bins etc. Probably the only unavoidable situation is stepping on death adders in the bush but that is a rare occurrence and care should be exercised when stepping over logs etc where snakes may be basking.
Killing a snake because it is near your property is a bit like shooting an intruder because you feel threatened and the latter is probably more justified.
This is a forum for snake lovers and to encourage any behaviour that harms snakes is a bad example.
Keeping any pets that harm any wild life is to be discouraged, why would you want a cat or dog that kills native animals?


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 22, 2019)

We can do this all day Ken, just agree to disagree. A snake killing dog is a far better option than a suburban yard potentially crawling with dog and child killing snakes. Through no fault of the snakes or kids, contact would be inevitable and the consequences dire. That's a risk as a parent I'm not prepared to take. As mentioned previously, It's not at all illegal to dispatch any snake deemed as a threat on private property. What constitutes a threat varies drastically depending on any given person's knowledge, experience And living arrangements all of which between yourself, myself and person's X,Y & Z are very different. No disrespect to yourself or anyone else, Those are just the facts of life.


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## -Adam- (Nov 22, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> Snakes do not attach humans, they only bite as a defensive reaction. Accidentally stepping on a snake is no excuse to kill it and humans should be smart enough and educate their children to take care where you step especially when moving bins etc. Probably the only unavoidable situation is stepping on death adders in the bush but that is a rare occurrence and care should be exercised when stepping over logs etc where snakes may be basking.
> Killing a snake because it is near your property is a bit like shooting an intruder because you feel threatened and the latter is probably more justified.
> This is a forum for snake lovers and to encourage any behaviour that harms snakes is a bad example.
> Keeping any pets that harm any wild life is to be discouraged, why would you want a cat or dog that kills native animals?



Hi Yellowtail,

My apologies - I get the feeling you took my question as argumentative - but that wasn't my intention at all. I completely understand all you have mentioned above, but my question was just seeking more information on your statement about it being illegal, nothing else. 

As to your question why would anyone want to have a cat that kills native animals - I don't know. I'm baffled as well - I'm personally not a fan of cats, but I was trying to keep my own personal bias out of the questions and keep my question above was from a neutral point of view. 

Because - while I'm not a cat lover - I know that there are hundreds of thousands, if not more Australians are and have cats - and the majority that are let outside (of which there are many) do kill native wildlife, from birds to lizards, to snakes. Your statement raised something I thought I understood wrong (the law) that may impact them and I was chasing clarification if I was wrong about it, that is all.

I hope you have a great weekend!

Cheers

Adam


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## cement (Nov 22, 2019)

Flaviemys purvisi said:


> Waaahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha... As expected you couldn't answer me, just more name-calling.
> 
> Triggered.
> 
> ...



Yeah thats rich coming from you,
Like I mentioned earlier you do have some major comprehension issues. This started (not that care now, all you gotta do is read the first few posts between us ) and its pretty solid who fired the first shot. I'll answer any question you want, make a list. 

Wildlife authorities don't prosecute anyone for killing snakes wether its accidental, on purpose or whatever, any law regarding this has probably never been used, except in the odd case where its blatantly obviously done in front of someone who could do something about it. It's a paper tiger.

POLL - WHAT IS THE BEST AND SAFEST WAY TO DEAL WITH A BROWN SNAKE IN YOUR BACKYARD?
A) Lock up your dogs, keep an eye on it, alert people and call a relocator.
or
B) Sic your dogs onto it.

Obviously as I've been told, I know nothing about them or their behaviour so now even after 15 years of bagging them, and the adamant , rude know it all attitude of the wildlife killer, I am forced to seriously consider my viewpoints on these animals. I also am forced to reconsider my viewpoint on what I said about snakes and dogs, as it has been so adamantly thrown back in my face, not with any real evidence other then hearsay mind you, that a small dog will survive a venom rich bite from an eastern brown. So all the cases I have been personally involved with obviously now are null and void. Thank you Blighty for putting up the recent case, It is as I said earlier, "they quite often kill each other".
Its not a rare occurrence , like I said here on the coast we lose anywhere from 6-12 a year, but what would I know?

The problem with your way of dealing with it, and making these claims on an open snake forum is that others might get the idea that its the best way,..... plenty of young impressionable people come on here to learn this EXACT THING. How many come on here who want to learn what's best but don't sign up???

Anyone worth their salt that actually knows these animals has spent the time dealing with them, to work this out. We do it to save lives, pets and people. So lets put it out there in a poll and see what the people think.

Wether you keep killing snakes (well, hang on it's not you personally doing it is it?) or not, I don't care. Your super dogs will always be 100% on the ball, fit as f%$# and ready for action on the ODD occasion you get one come in, so no worries there. They probably don't age either, or suffer any ailments that might affect their performance when you so bravely send them in. The odd dead EB isn't the end of the world.

Ill make it fun too, if it turns out that your way is best,
I'll hang up my bag, I will make my last post on this forum ever, a solemn heartfelt apology to you. Any public snake calls or goanna calls I get from then on I will refer to your way of dealing with it and I'll even give them your number so they can buy their dogs from you if your the breeder, or off your breeder.

If your way isn't (in the general forum public view ) the best way, then all I ask is that I get to pick your username for the next 12 months, and you never give advice on snakes again. Keep to your turtles.

You've dodged this twice...................

No new memberships here are counted though, its only who is a member here now at this day at this time.

So no more name calling, no more BS or made up stories.

I like your new signature, I'm a viking descendant and have the dupredons to prove it, are you?


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 22, 2019)

Go your way I'll go mine. I was called a lot of things by you and that's great, bottom line is I'm in the field every week of every month of the year, trapping Indian mynas - 162 this year alone, feral cats and my dogs are taking down foxes, pigs and wild dogs every month and when that front gets quiet we switch to rabbits and hares, want pics, I'll post them. So since my "super dog" killed 1 brown snake 6 weeks ago, he's since taken down 5 adult foxes, 3 fox pups And 3 feral cats. I daresay he and I do as much if not more for wildlife conservation than anyone who's commented on this thread. How many native animals do cats and foxes take every night?? Again, our positive footprint is far greater than our negative one regarding native wildlife.  So whilst I've fielded your misguided insults of being a suburban redneck wildlife killer, they're simply meaningless and hold no merit whatsoever. I actually like snakes and keep a few pythons myself. 

Please refer back to post #37... simply calling a snake catcher is not always an option... it makes perfect sense if a snake was encountered in the shed, one could simply back out, shut the door, take all the merry time in the world call someone to come remove it, happy days. When there's kids being kids in a suburban back yard playing ball, crashing through the garden beds etc there's a HIGH risk of them being bitten totally unawares and not even realising. You're not gettimg my point, this isn't about calmly finding a snake in the yard and safely removing it, this is I don't want an EB in.the yard period. The only way for me to ensure the kid's safety is to lock them inside 24/7 or have the dogs do what they do best and keep the yard free of potentially hazardous wildlife. If you can't see that then we'll never settle this. I'm not having my kids terrified to go outdoors cos there's possibly a snake hiding in the bushes that could bite them if they stepped on it or put their hand on it while retrieving a ball etc. We're not in the bush we're in the middle of suburbia, I'm pretty amazed we even had an EB all the way in here... the snakes can have the rest of the damn country, this is my small piece of ground and it's declared snake free. If the situation panned out differently like the brown was encountered in the shed, there's no way the dog would have been put on it, but that wasn't the case, I literally stepped on it. The rest is history and I'd do the exact same thing again.

You know very well I'm a gambling man, I let one of my most prized animals take on one of Australia's deadliest snakes... I know when the odds are in my favour and when they're not so no I will not be rolling the dice and partaking in your loaded poll in which the terms you've stipulated ensure that all of your buddies get a vote and none of mine do.  I wasn't born yesterday. Thankfully I don't need to worry about or concern myself with your opinion or anyone else's on here, I simply have to do what's best for me and my girls. 

As for your final question, I believe you're talking about Dupuytren's....?? Yes I'm a direct Viking descendant, my family lineage goes back to Scandinavia as does Dragonlover's - (we've discussed that topic previously.) If you're mocking me or being skeptical, then whatever it doesn't bother me either way. If you were being genuine, I apologise for my tone but given the nature of this thread thus far, I would be forgiven for assuming you were being passive aggressive.

Have a great weekend, I hope you don't get too many call outs regarding snakes. (That is sincere.)
No more name calling and there's been no made up stories. My life's exciting enough without having to unnecessarily trigger you lot.

Take care.


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## cement (Nov 22, 2019)

I don't mind burying the hatchet, even if its in each other backs , but not over an issue like this.

Ive put up here why I took offence at your method of dealing with an EB, and I tried to extend the olive branch of friendship post 15.

I've kept it up for a couple of reasons (as immature as my method may have been) not because I want to get involved in your life, but because people read this stuff.
There's quite a bit of duality in your arguments like for eg, your post saying the dogs have saved your life a few times from EB's, but now you talk of one EB encounter in the yard.
You didn't bother to read my post 15, because you preferred to try and belittle me again, yet you refer back to it..... There's others, but water under the bridge.

Put it this way - if I want to learn about turtles, I'll find someone with experience like you to ask. 

Quote - "Please refer back to post #37... simply calling a snake catcher is not always an option...(it doesn't have to be, more often than not I attempt to talk the people into not having me come out) it makes perfect sense if a snake was encountered in the shed, one could simply back out, shut the door, take all the merry time in the world call someone to come remove it,( Not necessarily, only if the snake thinks you didn't see it and it is curled up resting, otherwise because of the flighty nature of EB's it will vacate the way it came in and it will be gone before I get there.) happy days. When there's kids being kids in a suburban back yard playing ball, crashing through the garden beds etc there's a HIGH risk of them being bitten totally unawares and not even realising.(There is a risk I'll give you that, it isn't high risk, it's relatively low. If you are concerned that it really actually is a HIGH risk then before you go letting them "crash through the garden beds", go through the garden yourself with a rake or a hose, because the truth is snakes are coming and going anyway, the fact that you see one, one day doesn't mean they haven't been and gone many times.) You're not gettimg my point, this isn't about calmly finding a snake in the yard and safely removing it, this is I don't want an EB in.the yard period.(Normal thought process, please refer to my previous comment) The only way for me to ensure the kid's safety is to lock them inside 24/7 or have the dogs do what they do best and keep the yard free of potentially hazardous wildlife.(this is incorrect, There is no reason whatsoever for you to stop your kids being kids. The ONLY way to ensure they survive a snakebite is Teach your kids about snakes - Have the proper first aid on- site easy to reach- and teach them how to apply it. You can do this with them as often as you like, have them remove any jewellery because of swelling, apply the bandages, splints, mark the bite site, time of bite... to each other in a mock up scenario, drum it into them if that makes you feel better. I honestly don't know why we don't do this at school. Teach them to make a "mock" call to 000.. teach them to remain calm and sit and wait for the ambulance. Done correctly this will buy you 5-8 hrs of time, which is plenty in suburbia. The only risk and the reason why a bite is fatal is because the person who got bitten, and the people around doesn't know the correct first aid)  If you can't see that then we'll never settle this.( guess we'll never settle it then) I'm not having my kids terrified to go outdoors cos there's possibly a snake hiding in the bushes that could bite them if they stepped on it or put their hand on it while retrieving a ball etc.(Then don't teach them to fear snakes then, I have had three kids, all are now adults, they grew up in semi-rural area with plenty of bush and they led a childhood just like me , charging through the bush playing armies , paintball etc with a heap of other local kids. I am the local snake catcher, I would remove snakes from their backyards and ours occasionally and still do, sometimes from inside houses too. Having a snake turn up in a yard or a house is pretty common, but rare the same house or yard on a regular basis. Truth is most of my call-outs are only ever to new places, not re-visiting the same, This only occurs occasionally ) We're not in the bush we're in the middle of suburbia, I'm pretty amazed we even had an EB all the way in here (In my opinion - Learn't over many years there may be actually more snakes in suburbia then in the bush. My reasons for this thinking is that we provide the perfect habitat for us and for rodents. We can't seperate ourselves from them, it's impossible, we supply rodents with absolutely everything they need to thrive. The bush will only ever supply enough for a certain volume of species. Don't write me off here, you said I never answer your questions earlier.)... the snakes can have the rest of the damn country ( They already do, in fact they have the rest of the whole planet, for a creature that has only got a mouth, an **** and a limbless body between, I find it fascinating that it has colonised every inch of this planet, except for the very deep oceans and the permafrost areas they are everywhere, no other species come close except for maybe birds, but they can fly) , this is my small piece of ground and it's declared snake free.(They don't recognise fence lines, or any human ideas, like the word drought. They are simple, dumb animals that are only interested in survival. The EB came to your yard on the smell of rodent, snakes don't know if we are in a drought or not, and trust me in suburbia they will get a drink if they want one. If it drank from your dog water bowl, or pond it was a secondary reaction to why it was there. If a snake dies in a drought it will be from lack of food and they die where they lie. I have personally found and heard from other snake men about finding snakes curled up as if asleep but dead next to what was once a water filled billabong full of life. They don't go in search of water as far as I know, If George or someone else, Sdaji or another long term herper wants to weigh in here please be my guest) If the situation panned out differently like the brown was encountered in the shed, there's no way the dog would have been put on it, but that wasn't the case, I literally stepped on it.(you weren't bitten. The snake went ape sh$# because you scared the hell out of it, and the only thing it can do is bung on a threat response. It was amazing you weren't bitten,...but on one hand I have more true encounters where people weren't bitten then they were.From stepping or bumping a snake Unfortunately, the extreme toxicity of an EB certainly makes it one you don't want to get bitten by. But EB's are one of the fastest snakes to get out of our way, most people never see them , if anything its a tail disappearing ) The rest is history and I'd do the exact same thing again.( It is no more then unfortunate that you see it that way, but like I said I don't put this up here to get involved in your life, but your reaction, wether you want to believe me or not, is a fear based reaction. My advice, take it or leave it, is to learn as much about the animal as possible and you will negate the fear, and your kids will grow up without it as well. I don't fear snakes because I know them and how they react, I have the utmost respect for them though, especially Taipan, brown, death adder, tiger, black, all hoppo's,and just about every other species that has the potential to hospitalise me, and to be honest if I get tagged it is my fault, just like it isn't the snakes fault if it ends up in your backyard. Your kids have much more to fear in life than snake bite, but that doesn't mean be blaze'. Trust me ,I have bagged animals that afterwards I have had to sit down and calm myself because of the act of catching some large elapids. I'm no hero. But all the snake wants is to get away from me, it is me stupidly trying to catch the animal, never the other way around, it is my fault if I get tagged. 90 odd % of bites are from people trying to catch or KILL the snake, the other 10% are accidents. There are much more common ways of ending up in hospital and I know what its like to be a father, if you've got daughters like mine, snakes are the least of concern, education is the best way but as you have demonstrated not the only way.

Enjoy your weekend, I hope you never have to send the dogs onto another snake, period. 
Sincerely.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 22, 2019)

Thank you Cement (I feel ridiculous calling you that - if I knew your actual name, I'd use it now) for taking the time to reply. Believe me, I'm not a heartless ven destroyer, I do have a very healthy respect for all Aussie vens and it's based on a generous dose of fear. I'm not at all ashamed to admit that. I don't have a phobia of snakes, I just prefer those that could end my life to give me as much distance as I give them. I do not go looking for trouble... I am an adrenalin junkie but I don't have a death wish. I'll pick up T's, scorps, pedes etc no worries but I'm not playing back yard hero like many do trying to pick up or beat a snake with a rake or whatever and film in in the process. In the field when I see a ven, I don't even approach it for a photo, I'm heading the other way. Holding that dead EB just behind the head was the closest I ever want to get to one again and the pic does not show how much my hand was shaking. I probably didn't sit still for 3 hours after that after having returned from the vet with my dogs and I kept looking over my legs trying to reassure myself that no it didn't tag me, it's all in your head, it's not an exercise I wish to repeat. Whilst a lot of what you said makes sense in reality it's just not practical... I.mean who is literally going to comb a 1000 square metre block every time the kids head outside? By the time I was done they'd be over it and playing Nintendo.. . Kids today, attention spans of moths. Not having a go at you I mean it's just not practical.. mine are 8 and 10... they're not thinking "beware of snakes" they're thinking wow I'm going to catch that butterfly, running blindly tripping over **** as they go. However High low medium the risk is doesn't matter to me if my daughter's got tagged by a brown there's a chance they might not even realise it... just think they got a scrape from one of their mum's rose bushes and I find them dead in the sand pit half hour later... I don't want to even think about it...

Again, thanks for the time you've taken out of your evening. 
All the best.


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