# Sparky help please!



## Snakelove (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey there!

I just wanted to make sure if this setup was okay to use. So I've only got 1 powerpoint on the wall in my room where I keep my snakes. Would it be okay if I was to plug in an extension cord (to be closer to the enclosure) then a power board then another powerboard then my thermostat? or would that be too much? Coz I think I read somewhere that a thermostat can't go trough too many 'points' so to speak?

Thanks in advance.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 22, 2010)

I do it.
No deaths or anything sinister in the last year or so, so I guess its ok.


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## TigerCoastal (Jul 22, 2010)

i've been doing it for more than 6 months without a problem, i think it comes down to the amount of power the other appliences that are plugged in use as most house hold power points are 10 amp and if you connect to many things in you can go over that and blow fuses, trip circuit breakers or worse burn the house down


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## Snakelove (Jul 22, 2010)

Jannico said:


> I do it.
> No deaths or anything sinister in the last year or so, so I guess its ok.


 
lol oh good my thread actually made sense. haha alright yeah, I wasn't sure if that was okay or not. lol good to know!


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## Snakelove (Jul 22, 2010)

TigerCoastal said:


> i've been doing it for more than 6 months without a problem, i think it comes down to the amount of power the other appliences that are plugged in use as most house hold power points are 10 amp and if you connect to many things in you can go over that and blow fuses, trip circuit breakers or worse burn the house down


 
So say in the second powerboard i have a 25 watt heat cord and in the third powerboard i have 2x 100 watt ceramic heat emitter. That would be okay right?


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## TigerCoastal (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm no electrician, But i would say that would be fine, i have 3x 150w ceramics, 3 day and 3 night lights (only needs one plug) and my drill charger plugged into a power board without a problem


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## Snakelove (Jul 22, 2010)

TigerCoastal said:


> I'm no electrician, But i would say that would be fine, i have 3x 150w ceramics, 3 day and 3 night lights (only needs one plug) and my drill charger plugged into a power board without a problem


 
Ah alright. Thanks a lot! haha hopefully youre not wrong. lol


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## Wally (Jul 23, 2010)

I'd suggest you actually employ the services of a qualified electrician to provide you with a qualified answer. If it didn't look just a bit dodgy you wouldn't have started a thread about it. I know of someone who lost an extensive reptile collection due to overuse of temporary power distribution.


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> I'd suggest you actually employ the services of a qualified electrician to provide you with a qualified answer. If it didn't look just a bit dodgy you wouldn't have started a thread about it. I know of someone who lost an extensive reptile collection due to overuse of temporary power distribution.


 
Oh I've actually started this thread hoping that a qualified electrician would give their opinion coz I know that there is some on this site. I haven't actually gone through with this, that's why I wanted to check first before I kill my animals or even worse burn the house down. lol


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## kizzap (Jul 23, 2010)

Just a little bit of information for you all about power boards, etc. The only real important factor that you really have to worry about is that you do not overload the powerboard or cable. 

Most powerpoints are only rated to 10A (which is generally quite a lot). some do go to 15A, but they are few and far between, and if you are using one, you probably have already talked to a sparky anyways...but back to the issue at hand:

Most equipment that you will plug into a powerboard will draw a significant amount less then 10A, for example: a 60 watt lightbulb draws 60 watts. 60 watts is basically equal to 240 volt (mains) x amperage. Therefore the amperage = 60w / 240V which is roughly 0.3A. So significantly less then 10A. I don't have any specs on a thermostat on me, but I cannot see that it would be drawing any more then 2A which would also power the heating device plugged into it.

So assuming a light, the thermostat, and the heating element combined, I dont see how it would be possible to draw more then 2.5A for a regular enclosure. The bigger issue you would need to be concerned with with power is the heat factor, as long as all the electrical components have proper ventilation, there should be no issue. 

Edit: Just as a side thought, I am not too sure on how much power a heating element would draw, as It would be rated on the wattage of HEAT output, not the power drawn in. Either way, I seriously would not recommend trying to run 4 thermostats with heaters off one powerboard...that might start causing issues. I'd only recommend two thermostats and two lights at maximum.

Going back to the Socket rating, the 10A limit is basically the reason why you are not supposed to chain powerboard onto powerboards. Same as why you are not supposed to power things such as kettles, or PCs off a powerboard - so they dont overload the socket.

Just a sidenote for those with any electrical knowledge. I do realise there is a difference between apparant, active and reactive power, but for the scope here, i dont think there is too much of an issue.

Edit: I just feel I should say, I'm not an electrician, however I have studied electrical technology classes at uni, and I hope I have remembered everything correctly.


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## Wally (Jul 23, 2010)

And I hope a sparky replies. Don't mean to put the wind up you just providing an alternate response based on my own experiences.

Cheers


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

kizzap said:


> Just a little bit of information for you all about power boards, etc. The only real important factor that you really have to worry about is that you do not overload the powerboard or cable.
> 
> Most powerpoints are only rated to 10A (which is generally quite a lot). some do go to 15A, but they are few and far between, and if you are using one, you probably have already talked to a sparky anyways...but back to the issue at hand:
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I understand what you're saying. So you're basically saying that it's okay to do it BUT it's not recommended? because you said you're not meant to chain powerboard onto powerboards but then at the end you said it's not much of an issue? Sorry if I didn't get what you said it's late! haha. could you maybe clear that up a bit for me please? thanks mate.


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> And I hope a sparky replies. Don't mean to put the wind up you just providing an alternate response based on my own experiences.
> 
> Cheers


 
lol no worries mate. Just wanted to check first of all before I do anything else.


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## kizzap (Jul 23, 2010)

I would say it is ok to power possibly two thermostats off one board plugged into one wall socket, but for the sake of safety, not more then that.

(that is, the other two points could be used for something low power drawing, such as a light fitting, or a charger)


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## Wally (Jul 23, 2010)

The piggy backing of powerboards is what concerned me in your case.


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## Toastie (Jul 23, 2010)

Personal opinion its complete stupidity to run more than one powerboard off another. hmm from knowledge from school and abit from my dad hes a chippy but has electrical experience. hmm formula i remember is watts = Volts x amps. Normal house runs 10 amp breakers usually at 240 volts which mean 10 x 240 = 2400 watts per curcuit breaker (fuse)! BUT! there could possibly be more than one powerpoint running from any one curcuit breaker. Cheap overloaded powerboards have an extreme chance of overheating and easily catching fire, if any of your cables from your heat cords or powerboards or thermostats or what ever else you have plugged in there has a warming feel to it is most likely overloading and will sooner or later trip your curcuit. My two cents it can get more technical but this is the little that i know. But personaly your a fool to plug continuous powerboards into each other even running extention cords dims the amount of power that actually reaches the powerboard.


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm a sparky.... 
The risk I see isn't overloading. That's what your circuit breakers or fuse is for. 
A lot if fires start because of bad connections. Plugs not in properly or loose. I'd never connect a power board to another power board. I would connect a power board to an extension lead no worries though. Really you just need to bite the bullet and get another outlet installed. It's the safest thing to do. Power boards often sit flat and get dusty. Dust can be conductive at times and result in fires also. 
Thermostat will work with lots of connections. Not sure what that was about lol.


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2010)

ahh, so the extension cord them power board is fine,....thanks for that Snowman! 

sorry to butt in on ur thread Snakelove,...but its sort of on the same topic,..

do safety switches (the ones on the box thingy that turn the whole house off) guarantee that there wont be a fire regardless of what u plug into where?

if so, theyre not that pricey (well, in comparison to a fire) and it might be an idea to get somethign like that installed,...


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I'm a sparky....
> The risk I see isn't overloading. That's what your circuit breakers or fuse is for.
> A lot if fires start because of bad connections. Plugs not in properly or loose. I'd never connect a power board to another power board. I would connect a power board to an extension lead no worries though. Really you just need to bite the bullet and get another outlet installed. It's the safest thing to do. Power boards often sit flat and get dusty. Dust can be conductive at times and result in fires also.
> Thermostat will work with lots of connections. Not sure what that was about lol.



Ah okay! yeah that might work too. I'll definitely won't stick a powerboard onto another powerboard. the reason why I'm doing that is because of my heat cord. Coz I don't wanna put my heat cord through the thermostat. I just want the 2x 100 watt ceramic emitters connected with the thermostat. If that made sense. 



Chris1 said:


> ahh, so the extension cord them power board is fine,....thanks for that Snowman!
> 
> sorry to butt in on ur thread Snakelove,...but its sort of on the same topic,..
> 
> ...



Oh no worries Chris, I'm interested to know as well!


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

Just to cover myself Chris.. I said I that Iwould connect a power board into an extension cord, and I do. It's not an illegal practice, but there are risks with that set up still as with all plug in appliances. It's up to you what you do though 
Safety switches DO NOT stop fires. They wont even stop you from getting electrocuted between active and neutral. All they do is trip with 30mA of leackage to earth. So in theory if you and active touches the a metal earthed frame of a flouro light fitting it will trip the breaker.
It's been my experience that fires result from bad connections, faulty equipment and incorrect wirring practices. Having 10 things plugged into a power board is going to create a bad connection eventually in my opinion. A cord will be moved or dust will get in or a faulty applience will create a hot spot etc... 
I briefly read some crap about overloading the circuit.... I think common sense needs to prevail with what you are plugging in. Mathmatically you could run 2400w off a 10A outlet...who would though? that's just stupid. You also need to keep in mind that your breaker is probably 16A and that there are other outlets running off that same circuit.
Check your boards regularly and make sure everything is plugged in tight and secure and dust free. Keep your boards away from any moisture etc too. I saw a mates fishtank become live through his powerboard once. I could stick an active in the tank and a neutral in the socket and light up a 100W globe.... The way he had ist set up was very disturbing to say the least.... He found out it was live when he touched the light fitting and the water at the same time... :8


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## Tristan (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I'm a sparky....
> The risk I see isn't overloading. That's what your circuit breakers or fuse is for.
> A lot if fires start because of bad connections. Plugs not in properly or loose. I'd never connect a power board to another power board. I would connect a power board to an extension lead no worries though. Really you just need to bite the bullet and get another outlet installed. It's the safest thing to do. Power boards often sit flat and get dusty. Dust can be conductive at times and result in fires also.
> Thermostat will work with lots of connections. Not sure what that was about lol.



i was going to add my 2cents as my dad is a sparky, but it seems Snowman beat me too it. also don't use double adapters, i was lucky to have a sparky in the family had dad change all my points from singles to doubles or more depending on the room only cost me a trip to bunnings


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

Not sure how your viv is set up snakelove. But if you run a lead with the board to the viv why cant you plug the thermostat and the heat cords into the same board?


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## bfg23 (Jul 23, 2010)

wow i have been running 2 powerboards off another powerboard in my herp/study room for nearly a year now.

Me thinks ill be getting one of my electrician mates over this weekend.


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

bfg23 said:


> wow i have been running 2 powerboards off another powerboard in my herp/study room for nearly a year now.
> 
> Me thinks ill be getting one of my electrician mates over this weekend.



Yeah it works and can work with out incident. It just increases the "risk". My analogy would be that I used to spearfish with a fish bag hanging off my side holding the fish leaking blood. I did it for years and never had shark come by. My mate on the other hand was doing the same thing and had a pesky lil shark thrashing about his side. He was lucky it was small but he still ended up a little bloody.
So all I'm saying is it works and you can get away with it, but the risk is higher.... Older and a little wiser I say "why take an unessesary risk?"


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Not sure how your viv is set up snakelove. But if you run a lead with the board to the viv why cant you plug the thermostat and the heat cords into the same board?



Oh that's coz I'm gonna be getting another enclosure soon and there's going to be 2 light fittings needed to be plugged in plus the heat cord. and I don't want heat cord to be controlled with the thermostat. I think I'll just stick the heat cord with the thermostat. Okay so my plan is now from the wall powerpoint then an extension cord then a thermostat then a powerboard and on the last powerboard there's going to be a 25watt heat cord + 2x 100 watt ceramic emitter. Would that be fine? lol please tell me it is haha. it's all too confusing! or if it's not then what do you suggest?


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

what about two extension cords and one board each cord? Best solution is to get another power point put in. I think the going rate is about $100 for an outlet.


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> what about two extension cords and one board each cord?


 
But I only have a powerpoint on the wall in the room. which is extremely annoying! ahhh!


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## bfg23 (Jul 23, 2010)

I didnt know there was a risk involved otherwise it would have been rectified already.

I have already been to the electrical wholesaler and got a new GPO and some cable so will get it all installed tomorrow.

Snowman- I used to spearfish, and with a catch bag generally half full too haha. Also without incident.


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

The power point is a single? Why do people bother with single outlets??? Can get the single changed very easily snakelover


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## bfg23 (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman, can i rip out the single GPO thats currently in my herp room, and put a four outlet GPO in its place?


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## Tristan (Jul 23, 2010)

bfg23 said:


> Snowman, can i rip out the single GPO thats currently in my herp room, and put a four outlet GPO in its place?


 

you cant but a sparky can its an easy job i had a single in my entertainment room turned into a 4 point


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## cosmicwolf4 (Jul 23, 2010)

This is what I have done with min. I have an outlet behind on tank and run a powerboard from there, the other tanks I have hooked 2 extension cables from the other sides of the room linked to different outlets. These each have a powerboard connected. All I did was make sure the extension cable was running along the edges and fastened down to minimise any trips, falls or disconnections. It hasn't failed me yet and I don't overload any of the outlets this way


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> The power point is a single? Why do people bother with single outlets??? Can get the single changed very easily snakelover



haha I have no idea! it's annoying for sure. I'll definitely look into changing it into a double. Do you recommend anyone or a company by any chance to do it?


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## Ozzie Python (Jul 23, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Best solution is to get another power point put in.


 
I'm no sparky but i think that is the best solution. I got a sparky out and put in 8 doubles in my herp room, and set up another safety switch dedicated to the herp room- if the snake room trips out atleast the rest of the house stays powered (more importantly our fridge, rodent freezer and beer fridge keep working). cost about $800 but money well spent i think, especially when you have multiple enclosures, racks & incubators running.


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Ozzie Python said:


> I'm no sparky but i think that is the best solution. I got a sparky out and put in 8 doubles in my herp room, and set up another safety switch dedicated to the herp room- if the snake room trips out atleast the rest of the house stays powered (more importantly our fridge, rodent freezer and beer fridge keep working). cost about $800 but money well spent i think, especially when you have multiple enclosures, racks & incubators running.


 
Who did you get to have yours installed mate?


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## Snowman (Jul 23, 2010)

Yes they can be replaced


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## Chris1 (Jul 23, 2010)

thanks for all the info Snowman!

great thread Snakelove, its answered a bunch of questions ive been wondering about for ages!


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

OK guys I'm a sparky and hypothetically you should not piggy back power boards, ie plug one into the other. Although again hypothetically, IF the current does not exceed 10amps which is usually the rating of the flimsy 3 core flex and plug on the cheap power boards...which equates to 2400Watts, you will be ok. This cable is rated at more BUT these are the safe guidelines to work with!
Fires are "frequently" (not always), caused by bad connections and overloading of the power boards/double adapters, WHICH when the male plug is slightly pulled out of the female socket, still connected but not fully, this causes a hot joint, or "high resistance joint"....this heats up very hot due to the bad connection and *not having* the best circuit protection, ie Circuit Breaker or RCD controlling that circuit, this could potentially start a fire...which this does on occasion.
Again as stated get a double GPO installed or run half the load from another power point in the room.
Personally I wouldn't run a whole herp room off one circuit as if the circuit trips all your enclosures go out. You need to split the load...JMO

Disclaimer: This is just a guide ONLY. The internal wiring of the premise is also a contributor to fires, ie OLD VIR cabling, faulty GPO's and of course faulty power boards and double adapters. Better to safe than sorry....so errr on the side of caution!


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Chris1 said:


> thanks for all the info Snowman!
> 
> great thread Snakelove, its answered a bunch of questions ive been wondering about for ages!


 
haha yeah it's answered my questions too! I need to get my single powerpoint converted to a double! lol haha it's just not worth it otherwise!


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> OK guys I'm a sparky and hypothetically you should not piggy back power boards, ie plug one into the other. Although again hypothetically, IF the current does not exceed 10amps which is usually the rating of the flimsy 3 core flex and plug on the cheap power boards...which equates to 2400Watts, you will be ok. This cable is rated at more BUT these are the safe guidelines to work with!
> Fires are "frequently" (not always), caused by bad connections and overloading of the power boards/double adapters, WHICH when the male plug is slightly pulled out of the female socket, still connected but not fully, this causes a hot joint, or "high resistance joint"....this heats up very hot due to the bad connection and *not having* the best circuit protection, ie Circuit Breaker or RCD controlling that circuit, this could potentially start a fire...which this does on occasion.
> Again as stated get a double GPO installed or run half the load from another power point in the room.
> Personally I wouldn't run a whole herp room off one circuit as if the circuit trips all your enclosures go out. You need to split the load...JMO
> ...


 
So you think making a whole other powerpoint somewhere else in the room is better in my case?


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## cris (Jul 23, 2010)

225 watts wont cause any harm, power boards will be fine.


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## antaresia childreni (Jul 23, 2010)

one extension lead with one power board and plug therostat into power boardin my opinion i would not double up on power boards that to me is a bit dangerous


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

cris said:


> 225 watts wont cause any harm, power boards will be fine.





antaresia childreni said:


> one extension lead with one power board and plug therostat into power boardin my opinion i would not double up on power boards that to me is a bit dangerous


 
I think I'll just get a quote from the local sparky and see what they charge. If it's not worth it then I'll just go with my new plan! powerpoint on the wall - extension cord - thermostat - powerboard - heating elements (225 watts). I think even tho the heat cord is on a thermostat it'll get hot enough to heat up a tile. so yeah better safe then sorry!


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## bfg23 (Jul 23, 2010)

Turn off the main switch from the fusebox, unscrew the GPO, unscrew the power wires, screw wires into new GPO, screw in the new GPO and vwalah?


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

bfg23 said:


> Turn off the main switch from the fusebox, unscrew the GPO, unscrew the power wires, screw wires into new GPO, screw in the new GPO and vwalah?


 
haha yeah I'm not one to mess around with electricals mate. haha! imagine if I electrocuted myself! wouldn't look good. lol


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## driftoz (Jul 23, 2010)

i have one power outlet in my room, im runing an extention cord to a 8 pin adaptor then another 6 pin off that, im running phone charger, oil heater, computer, sterio, 2 computer monitors, 2 thermostats, 2 enclosure lights,1x 100w ceramic and a 150w ceramic, cable modem, heat mat and sometimes a ps3 or xbox and plan to add another enclosure with heat lamp and light.


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## strex72 (Jul 23, 2010)

Overall you are all on the right track but at the end of the day you are overloading the circut.without getting to tech you need to know how much is coming off the circut it is unsafe to have two boards pluged into each other for 1.i know people do it but it just takes that one time and boom.if you are going to do it this way and take a chance you want to get a hpm industrial power board they have there own breaker.im a plumber /elec and this is just friendly advice.at the end of the day you should be getting a licensed electrican in to look at it and advise you cheers strex


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

driftoz said:


> i have one power outlet in my room, im runing an extention cord to a 8 pin adaptor then another 6 pin off that, im running phone charger, oil heater, computer, sterio, 2 computer monitors, 2 thermostats, 2 enclosure lights,1x 100w ceramic and a 150w ceramic, cable modem, heat mat and sometimes a ps3 or xbox and plan to add another enclosure with heat lamp and light.


 
lol wow that's a lot! haha. how long have you had that setup for?


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

strex72 said:


> Overall you are all on the right track but at the end of the day you are overloading the circut.without getting to tech you need to know how much is coming off the circut it is unsafe to have two boards pluged into each other for 1.i know people do it but it just takes that one time and boom.if you are going to do it this way and take a chance you want to get a hpm industrial power board they have there own breaker.im a plumber /elec and this is just friendly advice.at the end of the day you should be getting a licensed electrican in to look at it and advise you cheers strex


 
Yeah will do mate, I'll probably just end up getting another powerpoint!


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

Snakelove said:


> Yeah will do mate, I'll probably just end up getting another powerpoint!



Because I posted I have a duty of care here..lol
The BEST possible scenario for you Snakelove...is get a qualified Sparky to change your existing single GPO to a double and get him to install another beside it....that way you have 4 x outlets to plug into which is MORE than adequate for your needs....it SHOULD cost you less than $100! Good to see that you have actually thought about it..well done mate!


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## strex72 (Jul 23, 2010)

the other thing to remember is if there was a fire due to those power boards and insurance found it to be the cause then you arent covered not trying to be a downer but these are just the facts have a great weekend cheers strex


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## Kenshin (Jul 23, 2010)

iv been running like this wall socket-> extention cord-> thermostat-> powerboard-> extention cord-> another powerboard

this seems to be the only way i can run a wall of enclosures with a board at ither end on the one thermostat (1200-1800w thermostat capacity) all enclosures run 100w bulbs

the other setups are wall socket-> extention cord-> thermostat-> 1-2 powerboards i run that on my more expensive thermostats that only do 600w of heating which for me equates to 6 enclosures


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> Because I posted I have a duty of care here..lol
> The BEST possible scenario for you Snakelove...is get a qualified Sparky to change your existing single GPO to a double and get him to install another beside it....that way you have 4 x outlets to plug into which is MORE than adequate for your needs....it SHOULD cost you less than $100! Good to see that you have actually thought about it..well done mate!


 
Yeah I've actually just called a few people already and the price range varies a bit so I'm gonna take my time. One guy charges $96 for a double including labour and everything. and another guy charged me $157! lol haha I think I have to keep callling people. haha


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

strex72 said:


> the other thing to remember is if there was a fire due to those power boards and insurance found it to be the cause then you arent covered not trying to be a downer but these are just the facts have a great weekend cheers strex


 
Yeah will take that into account mate. I won't risk it haha.



Kenshin said:


> iv been running like this wall socket-> extention cord-> thermostat-> powerboard-> extention cord-> another powerboard
> 
> this seems to be the only way i can run a wall of enclosures with a board at ither end on the one thermostat (1200-1800w thermostat capacity) all enclosures run 100w bulbs
> 
> the other setups are wall socket-> extention cord-> thermostat-> 1-2 powerboards i run that on my more expensive thermostats that only do 600w of heating which for me equates to 6 enclosures


 
Yeah just the thought of having a house fire scares the crap out of me so I'm gonna do this proper haha.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

Snakelove said:


> Yeah I've actually just called a few people already and the price range varies a bit so I'm gonna take my time. One guy charges $96 for a double including labour and everything. and another guy charged me $157! lol haha I think I have to keep callling people. haha


Mate, if i lived in Brissy i would do it for you for the price of the GPO's...Its a 15 minute job!!! Go buy the power points yourself and PM me...


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> Mate, if i lived in Brissy i would do it for you for the price of the GPO's...Its a 15 minute job!!! Go buy the power points yourself and PM me...


 
Is that all I need to get? no cables needed? just the powerpoints? haha I don't think I wanna risk burning the house down mate! haha.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

You'll also need, 1m x 2.5mm twin + earth cable....and a "C" clip! i'll explain...


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> You'll also need, 1m x 2.5mm twin + earth cable....and a "C" clip! i'll explain...


 
I think I'm just gonna wait til I get a reasonable quote and get the professionals to do it coz I absolutely have no idea! haha. It wouldn't be a funny story to tell about the time I burned a house down lol.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

Good Idea, but to save you costs, buy the gear and get a licensed electrician to install the GPO's...they will always mark up on materials...get it?? Good luck!!


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## Snakelove (Jul 23, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> Good Idea, but to save you costs, buy the gear and get a licensed electrician to install the GPO's...they will always mark up on materials...get it?? Good luck!!


 
Ah! yeah that's an awesome idea. When I'm ready to buy the stuff i'll throw you a pm and double check again what I need. talk soon! =)


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## cris (Jul 23, 2010)

Could one of the sparkies explain why its dangerous to run such a small amount of power through a powerboard? I have read the thread again and cant see any reason why there could be a problem.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 23, 2010)

I agree cris if you read my 1st post I explain the loading on the power board and the possible ramifications. To use the analogy, it may be OK to walk across the road "NOT at the Pedestrian Crossing" most of the time ALL of us & cross safely...but many people get hit by cars crossing the road & "NOT at Pedestrian Crossings". No one can ever say that it wont happen and it would be silly to offer advice to anyone, where a proven hazzard does exist!
This example is the same mate..I agree with you BUT and wont admit that stacking and piggy backing power boards may be OK, BUT there are those cases where it cuases fires and would be irresponsible to say "Yeh go ahead and do it" without taking into consideration ALL the variables hat may make this practice a risk!...I'm sure you understand that and I hope that MY advice is not as silly as some we get on the site, as we want to get GOOD advice instead of crap...correct>?
Cheers mate...


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## kensai (Jul 24, 2010)

As long as it is under 2400 watts or 10 Amps you will be fine.


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

kensai said:


> As long as it is under 2400 watts or 10 Amps you will be fine.



As stated earlier in the thread... Fires are rarely the result of overloading the circuit. More often than not its the result of a bad connection and more oftern than not it involves power boards and double adapters. There is circuit protection for overload. There is no protection for bad connections and faulty equipment.... 
So to say everything is fine as long as you don't overload the circuit is not very good advise.


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

cris said:


> Could one of the sparkies explain why its dangerous to run such a small amount of power through a powerboard? I have read the thread again and cant see any reason why there could be a problem.



Again it's not the volume of power it the connections that make it more of a risk.


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

okay this guy is an idiot but it was all I could find.... shows a bad connection. 

[video=youtube;xOBfdChJUps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOBfdChJUps[/video]

also some frequently asked questions
http://www.a1testingandtagging.com.au/faq.html

Brochure for electrical saftey
http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/Media/doc...fety-5979159b-1e53-4ea2-8f20-72878f4b2e7b.pdfhttp://info.anu.edu.au/hr/assets/ohs/Procedure_Attachments/Electrical_Brochure.pdf


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## Kenshin (Jul 24, 2010)

kensai said:


> As long as it is under 2400 watts or 10 Amps you will be fine.


 
so is that 2400w worth of heating per wall plug or for both..... so thats all the lights wattages added together but the thermostats dont have a wattage?


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## TrevorJ (Jul 24, 2010)

In days past there would not be a real problem doing this but unfortunately these days power boards are coming out of China with a compliance plate but they are very low quality and don't actually comply. I have had them overheat at well below the 10 amp load and have had burning and melting of the plastic occur at the outlets. Even the cheap extension cords from China can be felt to be quite warm with even a moderate load. Fortunately my boards were running in a monitored situation. I wouldn't trust them to be left on while I was away these days. Get a sparky to come and fit power points where you need them. Better safe than sorry. You may find that cascading power boards in the event of a fire may void your household insurance as well.


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## Wally (Jul 24, 2010)

Sound advice throughout Snowman and thank you for steering the thread in the direction it needed to go.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 24, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Just to cover myself Chris..
> Safety switches DO NOT stop fires. They wont even stop you from getting electrocuted between active and neutral. All they do is trip with 30mA of leackage to earth. So in theory if you and active touches the a metal earthed frame of a flouro light fitting it will trip the breaker.


You have given some great advice snowman, but i need to pull you up on one thing which is incorrect....sorry to split hairs...lol That statement is NOT entirely true. An RCD (residual current device) or ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker), works by detecting a "leaked curent" or to be more technical a "difference in potential" of 30mA or more (depending on the setting of the said device) between the active OR Neutral conductor to earth..... EARTH is you! ie if you were to touch either the active OR neutral conductor and there is a "difference in potential" it will trip the RCD.  
There are definitely ways to get an electric shock through appliances etc with the correct circuit protection installed, but they are way more complex than the debate at hand. BTW no one uses 16A for power circuits anymore and haven't for as long as I can remember. 2.5mm twin+E cable is rated at 25A and is a minimum sized cable to be used as per A/NZ Standards, although it is required that a CB of no more than 20A be used, why would you use a 16A Breaker on a power circuit, we don't even use 16A on light circuits anymore??


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 24, 2010)

I just watched that you tube video and I do agree what a twit, BUT it does show you exactly what I said in one of my previous posts "high resistance joints"...that is one and you saw the ramifications...


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

Not sure what you're getting at Southside Morelia? Your above explanation is correct. I was merely giving a single example in simple terms of what can trip an RCD. Any leakage is considered to earth in laymans terms. Whether it's via a human or any other conductor. If it's not going to earth where is the difference in potential? I'm a licensed special class A grade (E) in both Victoria and Western Australia at present, and to get your a grade, as you well know you have to draw and explain how an RCD works.... 
As for 16A breakers... Everyone who is reading this have a look at your switchboard and see if you have 16A breakers for your power circuits? It's still VERY common to use them. As you stated the breaker can be no more than 20A, hence making 16A a safe option that reduces risk of overloading when Joe Blow sticks 40 power boards together to run his dope crop. Plenty of people install 20A as well but 16A is more common in "my" experience. I've been a sparky for 14 years and I'm still learning. I knew early on that I wanted to be more than a house basher....


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> Sound advice throughout Snowman and thank you for steering the thread in the direction it needed to go.




most welcome


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 24, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Not sure what you're getting at Southside Morelia? Your above explanation is correct. I was merely giving a single example in simple terms of what can trip an RCD. Any leakage is considered to earth in laymans terms. Whether it's via a human or any other conductor. If it's not going to earth where is the difference in potential? I'm a licensed special class A grade (E) in both Victoria and Western Australia at present, and to get your a grade, as you well know you have to draw and explain how an RCD works....
> As for 16A breakers... Everyone who is reading this have a look at your switchboard and see if you have 16A breakers for your power circuits? It's still VERY common to use them. As you stated the breaker can be no more than 20A, hence making 16A a safe option that reduces risk of overloading when Joe Blow sticks 40 power boards together to run his dope crop. Plenty of people install 20A as well but 16A is more common in "my" experience. I've been a sparky for 14 years and I'm still learning. I knew early on that I wanted to be more than a house basher....



I feel you read my post incorrectly OR I apologize for giving you a negative vibe, not intentional my friend and your posts were informative to say the least...Thanks for that...although I was splitting hairs as I initially said..  I live in a different state to you and possibly the trend in other states may be different, that I cannot answer. I was asking a question on the breaker size as that is perplexing to me, as in NSW we don't ever use 16A breakers. REASON: they are the same price as 20A's and as you correctly pointed out 16A limit your power load, meaning you need to have more circuits to compensate for the lower maximum demand on the circuit..... which in turn increases your costs for the installation of more circuits, means more cable, more breakers, bigger switchboards, which in turn could mean the difference to winning or losing a tender for a big project! Every job that we tender for, or work on, specs 20A minimum CB's for lights and power & 2.5mm minimum conductor size...that's the facts here in NSW snowman and I was generally inquisitive with your rationality on the 16A breakers, which again may be common place in your state.
At least we can agree on something, we are the smartest and usually the better looking out of all the tradies... hey Snowman?  ... Just a sledge to all the plumbers, & chippies out there!!!!...that's along running construction joke! LOL


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## Ramsayi (Jul 24, 2010)

Our C/Bs are rated at 16 amps except the stove circuit which is 20 amp. As far as conductor size goes isn't 2.5mm for power circuits and 1.5mm for light circuits?


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 24, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Our C/Bs are rated at 16 amps except the stove circuit which is 20 amp. As far as conductor size goes isn't 2.5mm for power circuits and 1.5mm for light circuits?


LOL I had the feeling i'd be proven wrong, although I do know that MANY houses when the switchboards were upgraded from semi-rewirable fuses to Circuit Breakers 15+ years ago, have 16A breakers installed, we even did that as well!...LMAO...
But seriously in all "NEW" residential installations that we work on, they are as i have mentioned. As far a conductor size, you are correct Rams, BUT as I said before, there are many reasons we UP the conductor size on lighting circuits and this is to reduce costs having extra circuits, breakers and bigger switchboard sizes...ie the more circuits the more breakers more cable and bigger the boards to fit the extra breakers in. With a 20A circuit you can put more lights on it, it is unlimited in certain situations, I don't have the SAA wiring rules beside me to quote the rule...lol
My Company doesn't do do 'domestic" houses, I do residential projects consisting of 250 apartments or more...so you can imagine if you project the costs of a CB here, Load Centre there...extra cable and labour to rough in and fit this all off.....it does add up substantially. 
Thats just the way it is, even if it don't make sense to some, it does to us winning or losing a potential $4M contract. FYI light circuits used to be wired in 1mm cable not all that long ago and they increased that to 1.5mm minimum conductor size...I bet my left **t, 1.5mm will be phased out as lighting cable soon as was 1mm. JMO...


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## Ramsayi (Jul 24, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> FYI light circuits used to be wired in 1mm cable not all that long ago and they increased that to 1.5mm minimum conductor size...I bet my left **t, 1.5mm will be phased out as lighting cable soon as was 1mm. JMO...


 
I've been out of the game for longer than I care to remember however going by my foggy memory 1.5mm cable was used for the light circuit except for switch wires which were 1mm cable.

I would of thought that having a lower rated breaker/fuse would be safer in that it would trip well before the cable overheated/melted,caught fire, in built redundancy.


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## Snowman (Jul 24, 2010)

Cheers SM. I thought you were having a dig. So now I appologise if my reply was harsh. LOL 
If I remember correctly a 20A breaker means you can have as many outlets as you want on that circuit. I don't do domestic anymore other than an occasional house for family members. But it doesn't get much simpler than house wiring. I can see your point with winning contracts etc and how it impacts your selection of materials.
And yes we are the best looking and smartest tradies  Though I'd probably lie about that when there is a 200kg Maori concreter standing infront of me


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 24, 2010)

Snowman said:


> If I remember correctly a 20A breaker means you can have as many outlets as you want on that circuit.
> And yes we are the best looking and smartest tradies  Though I'd probably lie about that when there is a 200kg Maori concreter standing infront of me


That's correct Snowman and the reason we use 20A breakers, same with lighting as well if you use 2.5mm cable.....
Cheers mate, take care!!
Tired of arguing electrics, this is a herp site...LOL


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## driftoz (Jul 24, 2010)

Snakelove said:


> lol wow that's a lot! haha. how long have you had that setup for?



almost 2 years minus the 2 snake enclosures ( 2xlights, heat emmiters )


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## Snakelove (Jul 25, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> That's correct Snowman and the reason we use 20A breakers, same with lighting as well if you use 2.5mm cable.....
> Cheers mate, take care!!
> Tired of arguing electrics, this is a herp site...LOL


 
lol yeah mate this thread was informative in the beginning but the last few posts were all gibberish to me! haha. lol


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## Whitey560 (Aug 2, 2010)

deleted.


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## Greenmad (Aug 2, 2010)

Whitey560 said:


> im an electrical apprentice in vic and on all domestic jobs we do we use 16a breakers for power and 10a for lighting. also 1mm cable has not been phased out and is quite common, 1.5mm cable can be used if longer runs are needed due to less voltage drop with its increased size. technically you can have as many light points or power points on the same circuit as long as the circuit is protected by the correct sized breaker.


 
Mate you can not put as many as you want lol. Read your AS3000, There is a limit.


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## Whitey560 (Aug 2, 2010)

deleted


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## Whitey560 (Aug 2, 2010)

alright table c8 in as3000 shows the max amounts but is a recommended guide only. legally you can have any number of points as long as cable is protected by correct circuit breaker.
page 375.


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## Greenmad (Aug 2, 2010)

Mate what i meant was your giving advice over a public form, and said that you can have as many as you want, you didnt say anything about cable size to suit or anything like that, thats all mate im not trying to prove anything. You are technically right but is it advice to give to people who dont have you lic. You dont want someone putting 50 gpos on one 2.5mm and burning up. I know that they are protected and cbs fail a fair bit too.


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## Snowman (Aug 2, 2010)

Whitey you are correct and a general rule of thumb is 20A breaker means no limit on number of outlets. There is nothing wrong with giving out information that comes from Australian standards on a public forum. It a relatively new rule (last decade or so) so some people may not have glued in the amendments or bought a new copy of as3000.


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## Whitey560 (Aug 2, 2010)

lol thought my teachers must have been feeding me lies for a second there.


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## Snowman (Aug 2, 2010)

In addition there is nothing wrong with unlicensed people having knowledge. You don't need a license to buy AS3000 or any other Australian standards. It is however illegal to perform electrical work without a licence. Yet bunnings still sell all the gear to the public. Clipsal took a stance on this and only sell via electrical wholesalers.


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## Snowman (Aug 2, 2010)

Hope you are enjoying your apprenticeship Whitey. There's good money to be made as a sparky. Especially in WA where $100-200k is very obtainable in the resource sector.


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## Wally (Aug 2, 2010)

Snowman said:


> In addition there is nothing wrong with unlicensed people having knowledge. You don't need a license to buy AS3000 or any other Australian standards. It is however illegal to perform electrical work without a licence. Yet bunnings still sell all the gear to the public. Clipsal took a stance on this and only sell via electrical wholesalers.



Guilty as charged.


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## Whitey560 (Aug 2, 2010)

deleted


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## Snowman (Aug 2, 2010)

Yeah best to switch from house bashing to commercial/industrial while you are still an apprentice. Site allowance and better conditions for starters! I did the same thing.


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## Banjo (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks guys this has been a very informative thread, I have enjoyed reading it.


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## TA1PAN (Aug 10, 2010)

ive got a two 75watt globes,one 100 watt globe,one 200watt fish tank heater,fish tank filter,fish tank light,tv and xbox all on one 8 outlet power board. is that safe?


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