# Copper Pipe Perch



## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

G'day people,

A little while ago I raised a question as to wheather or not it was a good idea to make a pearch from copper pipe. I received many comments that I should cash the copper in and buy beer then find a stick and voila. Of course being the man that I am, I saw this as a challenge and thus the following project was born. I hope this gives a little insight into my process and perhaps someone may follow in my foot steps and have a little bit of fun dooing it.

excuse the iFail photos please.

First of all I made use of some 1 1/8 pipe that we removed from a decommissioned installation so it was free

I found a piece of steel that fit inside the copper nicely so that I could put it in a vice without the copper crushing or heating up and falling out.



then I got the oxy out and got plenty of heat onto the copper until it was nice and cherry red and maluable.



then I worked the copper nice and slowly ensuring to put the most heat on the outside of the bend. this is because the outside radius will have the furthest to stretch and will require the most heat.





I found that as the copper bent and kinked I could work the soft metal with a hammer and bash it into a square to keep some strength in the copper and to try and keep a branch like shape.


then I made a second "branch" to roughly the shape I thought it should be.


once home, I mocked up the mounting location with my finely calibrated instruments, electrical tape and a stubbie holder.




also with some of the scrap I mocked up a third "branch" to be made for the cool end of the tank


then I brazed the joins together with a simple butt join






in the bending process a couple of holes were torn in the copper so I quickly filled them up with solder to stop anything finding it's way in




third branch bent up and joined


I then heated a piece of copper up and bashed it flat with a hammer to form a mounting plate for the base of the perch


I then drilled a couple of holes in the plate and soldered it to the base




progress shot


I made up a couple more tabs to secure the branches to the wall of the enclosure.


final check of dimensions before coating.


getting the expanda foam to stick to the copper was the most annoying part of this whole project. I had to work it slowly or it would just fall straight off. perhaps coating the copper in pond tite would help the expanda foam stick next time.
make sure you fill the pipe up to stop any nasties growing in there or even worse, losing your pet!




next I took a hack saw blade to the foam to shape and smooth out all the rough edges and inconsistencies. 


doesn't matter if you miss some spots because the grout will cover it all up anyway.


next I coated the expanda foam with grout as we normally would. I chose to use the stuff from bunnings that is already brown in colour. I'm not sure if that is a no go or not but I figured the pond tite will seal it all up anyway.
for the last coat I added some white paint to lighten the colour and used the grout sparingly to give some depth.


then three or four coats of pond tite to make sure it's all safe




all complete ready for final installation.


with the foam and grout it was a little bit of a tight fit but being copper I could manipulate it a little to get it into position as required. don't move it too much though ot the grout will start to crack.


a coupele of hides, some substrate and a bowl and we are good to go!


I have to say though, nothing makes you happier than the first time you see your pet using the thing you have put all your time into! she seems to like it  



all in all I am very happy with the result. if I didn't have to take the perch to the office to work on it every day then I would have been able to have it done in a weekend, no dramas. The main thing that took up time was waiting for grout and expanda foam and pond tite to dry.

hope this was informative and I hope it has inspired someone out there to have a go at making a slightly less typical perch for their enclosure.

cheers.

Moses


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm not sure what that thumbnail down the bottom is or how to get rid of it so please ignore it


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## treeofgreen (Feb 4, 2013)

Thats perch dedication.


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## Skippii (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow, first time I've seen someone attempt something like this. It's always interesting seeing people try new ways of doing things. Great job!


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## Umbral (Feb 4, 2013)

Interesting idea, thanks for sharing. That little thumbnail always pops up when I post pics too not sure why.


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

I know it looks like a lot of work but really it was all a breeze. A few afternoons after work and it was done. and I have something that fits exactly where I want it and has plenty of levels so she can thermoregulate as required.


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## Shotta (Feb 4, 2013)

that looks awesome thanks for sharing


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## MyMitchie (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow!!! So impressed. You've gotta be happy with that. Well done.


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## andynic07 (Feb 4, 2013)

When bending pipe you either need a pipe bender or a spring inside the tube to stop it from collapsing. The finished product looks really good but I have a couple of questions , will the copper seep through the expander foam and would that copper be poisonous to your snake?

Andrew


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> When bending pipe you either need a pipe bender or a spring inside the tube to stop it from collapsing. The finished product looks really good but I have a couple of questions , will the copper seep through the expander foam and would that copper be poisonous to your snake?
> 
> Andrew



G'day,

thanks for your input.
there is only so much you can do with a pipe bender and it's not going to look natural. You are restricted with how tight you can make the bends and it makes it hard if you want to zig and zag all over the place as I have. and besides that nobody uses pipe benders for 1 1/8 inch pipe, in refrigeration at least. It is all done with elbows. And you certainly can't get an 1 1/8 inch spring bender.

I would imagine that copper will be fine as we use it for all our drinking water. That was one of the enquirys I made in my first post. Regardless of that though, it has all been sealed with pond tite anyway so I can't see it being a problem.

Cheers.


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## Pythoninfinite (Feb 4, 2013)

A couple of reasons why I'd not do this - copper is highly conductive of heat - it will be cold away from the heat, and could easily get very hot if overexposed, unlike "neutral" materials like wood or even PVC. It is also quite toxic itself, and whether or not this is able to be absorbed through the skin of a snake is debatable, why would you make a toxic metal such a feature of an encolsure?

To be blunt, a curiously stupid idea...

Jamie


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## Justdragons (Feb 4, 2013)

I wonder if it will produce poisons when the copper starts to oxidise?? 

Great idea though..


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## Pythoninfinite (Feb 4, 2013)

Of course it will, copper oxides are highly toxic...

Jamie


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

Pythoninfinite said:


> A couple of reasons why I'd not do this - copper is highly conductive of heat - it will be cold away from the heat, and could easily get very hot if overexposed, unlike "neutral" materials like wood or even PVC. It is also quite toxic itself, and whether this is able to be absorbed through the skin of a snake is debatable, why would you make a toxic metal such a feature of an encolsure?
> 
> To be blunt, a curiously stupid idea...
> 
> Jamie



where were you when I was asking the question a month ago?

it will be the same temperaturee as the enclosure away from the heat! it is because it is a good conductor that this is the case. the first law of thermodynamics is that heat travels from a warmer body to a colder body until they reach a state of equilibrium so the heat in the enclosure will travel into the copper until it warm up to exactly the same temperature as the rest of the enclosure. on top of that there is an insulative coating of expanda foam that will reduce the thermoconductive properties of the copper to a point where it will be less effected by the space around it.
as for the toxicity it is sealed with a water based sealant that is designes specifically for sealing ponds for fish to live in. if a fish which is constantly ingesting the water it is is swimming in can live in a pond sealed with this product then a snake can sit on it once in a while surely.

perhaps a curiously stupid judgement....


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## andynic07 (Feb 4, 2013)

Mo53sz said:


> G'day,
> 
> thanks for your input.
> there is only so much you can do with a pipe bender and it's not going to look natural. You are restricted with how tight you can make the bends and it makes it hard if you want to zig and zag all over the place as I have. and besides that nobody uses pipe benders for 1 1/8 inch pipe, in refrigeration at least. It is all done with elbows. And you certainly can't get an 1 1/8 inch spring bender.
> ...


You make some pretty good points about the bends but I thought there would be a conduit bending spring that size. All that aside it looks really good and I also think that the expander foam would provide sufficient thermal insulation and I hope the pond sealer keeps the nasty toxins in. It is good to see that you did some research before throwing it together and into your viv.


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## Gruni (Feb 4, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> When bending pipe you either need a pipe bender or a spring inside the tube to stop it from collapsing. The finished product looks really good but I have a couple of questions , will the copper seep through the expander foam and would that copper be poisonous to your snake?
> 
> Andrew



Spring benders used by plumbers actually go outside the tube as retrieval from the inside would be near impossible, they are readily available from hardware stores and plumbing suppliers and are relatively cheap, although they aren't very friendly when used together with a blow torch. I like the effort you went to and if you have the tools it could be a fun project.


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> You make some pretty good points about the bends but I thought there would be a conduit bending spring that size. All that aside it looks really good and I also think that the expander foam would provide sufficient thermal insulation and I hope the pond sealer keeps the nasty toxins in. It is good to see that you did some research before throwing it together and into your viv.



Thanks a lot. I appreciate any input. The last thing I want to do is to hurt my snake. you need oxygen for things to oxidise so it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 4, 2013)

You can also get half decent bends in copper pipe by filling the pipe with sand then seal each end of the pipe with a bit of rag,heat and bend as usual.


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## sharky (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow :shock: You are one dedicated bloke! It was all worth it though, it looks fantastic (I think the snakey likes it too ) Great job!


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## Gruni (Feb 4, 2013)

I would question how toxic it could be given the way people wear copper braclets all the time with no harm and copper pipe carries all our drinking water. I think with the pondtite and foam etc will be more than safe as an instalation.


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## SamNabz (Feb 4, 2013)

Some creativity and skill there, surely, but what's wrong with using actual branches?

A short walk through most local parks will provide many branches of all shapes and sizes...


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## jacorin (Feb 4, 2013)

jeez,stop bashing him you lot,you praise him for the effort in 1 hand,and bring him down with the other......would he have done it if there was a possibility of hurting his snake??? NOT.......nice job mate


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## fourexes (Feb 4, 2013)

Looks quite effective actually. Never tried, never known. Good on you. 

To Gruni & anyone interested, copper bracelets are popular in people with joint pain and arthritis. The reason for this is the zinc leeches through the skin along with other not so cool stuff which leads to the green ring if you wear it long enough. So no I don't think bare copper would be a great idea although I have no comment on the insulation, time will tell I guess. 

And in regards to potable & town water pipes, once upon a time it was a good idea to use gal also... now they're switching to poly.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 4, 2013)

fourexes said:


> And in regards to potable & town water pipes, once upon a time it was a good idea to use gal also... now they're all getting changed to poly.



Not because of any health concerns though.PEX is getting used more and more these days instead of copper because it is cheaper and easier to work with.


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## Mo53sz (Feb 4, 2013)

SamNabz said:


> Some creativity and skill there, surely, but what's wrong with using actual branches?
> 
> A short walk through most local parks will provide many branches of all shapes and sizes...



nothing wrong with braches I just found that to get something as sturdy as I would like it to be, with the character I would want was hard. this fits exactly where I want it to be and I don't have to worry about pests that may come with a branch found in a park.

don't get me wrong, I have used branches in the past and will again! but hey, the materials were free and I thought stuff it, let's give it a go.


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## fourexes (Feb 4, 2013)

and leaks alot more due to stupid fittings :lol: 

From a scientific standpoint I have nothing to really argue the point with you but they simply haven't been measuring enough parameters of town water contents for long enough to really make a solid comment.

However being a metalworker, I can assure you that copper pipe isn't as good for you as you're lead to believe..

Copper is toxic when ingested & can be linked to cirrhosis of the liver & degenerative brain disorders. Quick research reveals levels of 2mg/l of copper in average town water in NSW in 2004, I don't believe much research has been done on such low exposure levels over prolonged periods of time. Of course we need a certain amount of copper in our bodies to survive but how our body regulates that & what it does with it are governed by many variables. There are so many things we still don't know, one of the degenerative brains disorders it can throw out is alzheimers which is on the rise for so far unexplained reasons. 

It has recently been found that rainwater stored in plastic tanks plumbed through copper pipe can be acidic enough to cause problems with the pipe & subsequent health problems. The old concrete tanks used to leech lime into the water which neutralised the acid. This is really only a problem with stored water though & your town taps are usually flushed fairly often.

So I do know where you're coming from Ramsayi, it's not about to kill us tomorrow, I just don't think it's as safe as made out, though what really is?


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