# A little warning for all DIY'ers



## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

Got a call from a friend who asked me to look at why the down light wasn't working in their enclosure.
This is what I found after taking it apart: 





Hopefully this serves are a reminder for those who build there own enclosures to be _extremely careful_. Thankfully the inhabitants are all ok and there was no further damage done. 

Hope this servers as a bit of a warning and prevents someone else from making the same mistake.


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## Trimeresurus (Sep 2, 2013)

What kind of wood is that?


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

Melamine for the enclosure, and i'm not sure what wood was used to mount the globes in.


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## AirCooled (Sep 2, 2013)

Did you ascertain the cause? faulty wiring,poor quality components,incorrect components/materials used,etc


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

I think it was because there wasn't enough ventilation for the halogen light, it was in a box with some holes drilled in the sides for ventilation there just wasn't enough holes to keep the heat down.


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## phatty (Sep 2, 2013)

Doesn't look.like the was any ventilation to allow heat to escape

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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

phatty said:


> Doesn't look.like the was any ventilation to allow heat to escape
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk 4


Yup, there was some holes in the side of it, but wasn't enough. Just lucky nothing else happened.


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## phatty (Sep 2, 2013)

These light have a lot of heat when you buy them they normally have a cage to go over the top to allow heat to go into the roof and keep unwanted materials out of contact 

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## killacoastal8u (Sep 2, 2013)

There was def no where for the heat I use down lights and they are well ventilated so I've never had that issue 


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah it was a bit intense, its a silly mistake that could of been easily avoided. Just thought I'd share it just in case anyone else was thinking about doing the same thing. Never know.


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## lizardwhisperer (Sep 2, 2013)

When I installed my 35W or 50W halogens/dichrotics I used a pendulum style all ceramic e27 fitting and proper all ceramic (imported !) gu10-e27 adapter and suspended it all about 1" from the ceiling of my enclosure (all inside a wire cage), this way there was lots of air circulating around and past the hot globe and fittings and there was no direct physical contact with the ceiling of the enclosures and the reps had no way of coming into contact with the very hot globe / gu10 and e27 fittings).

The guy who had the faulty installation (would have to have been a dodgey job = faulty -= DANGEROUS) was lucky not to have incinerated his pets and burn his house down IMO judging from the images seen above.

At the very least he should have had a sparky check it over BEFORE turning on the lamp, and he should have used ceramic wall or floor tiles as a thermal barrier between the fitting and roof - NOT wood.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

I think they under estimated how hot they really get.


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## Stuart (Sep 2, 2013)

Good on you for helping out and especially for sharing mate.


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## Snowman (Sep 2, 2013)

Great example of someone installing something without any knowledge of the Australian standard pertaining to lighting.


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## Ephemera (Sep 2, 2013)

Lucky escape for him & the animals. What did he have in there?


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 2, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Great example of someone installing something without any knowledge of the Australian standard pertaining to lighting.



Exactly why I wanted to post it, so people don't make the same mistake they did and not to go a sparky in the first place.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 2, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Great example of someone installing something without any knowledge of the Australian standard pertaining to lighting.



What is the standard with regard to space around halogens in enclosed areas?


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## Snowman (Sep 2, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> What is the standard with regard to space around halogens in enclosed areas?


Couldn't tell you without looking it up. But there is a minimum hight above the fitting and the distance next to it varies depending on installation, and things like fireproof covers. Halogens using normal house downlights can not be used to code most times in a viv because of the distance from fitting to roof of enclosure being too close. I think it's 200 or 300mm above a halogen minimum. But like I said Id have to check.


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## OldestMagician (Sep 2, 2013)

From AS3000 (it's Amendment 1, Amendment 2 has just come out so there may be changes)


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## Snowman (Sep 2, 2013)

OldestMagician said:


> From AS3000 (it's Amendment 1, Amendment 2 has just come out so there may be changes)
> 
> View attachment 296076



Woohoo.. I guessed 200 or 300mm above. It's 200mm  Also 200mm side clearance is says. So who has a 200mm square box and a heat resistant mount for their halogens? I'm guessing not many DIY's...


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## andynic07 (Sep 2, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Woohoo.. I guessed 200 or 300mm above. It's 200mm  Also 200mm side clearance is says. So who has a 200mm square box and a heat resistant mount for their halogens? I'm guessing not many DIY's...


It would be interesting to see how some of the "professional" enclosure builders that use down lights in their builds stack up to the rules. Surely they can not sell a product that does not meet electrical safety regulations. I will not mention names because the thread will be deleted but we all know the main players involved in the latest enclosure debacle.


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## Gruni (Sep 2, 2013)

Got lucky there, that why I use a fully fledged heat safe down light and not just a globe and fitting. DIY is one thing but it still needs care to make sure you don't cut corners.

I use something similar to this but as a 12v power supply...


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## Snowman (Sep 2, 2013)

Gruni said:


> Got lucky there, that why I use a fully fledged heat safe down light and not just a globe and fitting. DIY is one thing but it still needs care to make sure you don't cut corners.
> 
> I use something similar to this but as a 12v power supply...


you will find that the regulations are the same.


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## Wing_Nut (Sep 2, 2013)

There is a product called Timbersafe. Its a natural product designed to treat timber. It is used to protect against wood rot, fungii, wood borer, termites as well being a fire retardant. The fire retardant testing results were quite amazing. Perhaps a safe, economic way that could be utilised to prevent these kinds of things occurring. 

Kind regards

Wing_Nut


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## Red-Ink (Sep 2, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Woohoo.. I guessed 200 or 300mm above. It's 200mm  Also 200mm side clearance is says. So who has a 200mm square box and a heat resistant mount for their halogens? I'm guessing not many DIY's...



Some of us figure out a way around it...


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## Snowman (Sep 3, 2013)

Red-Ink said:


> Some of us figure out a way around it...



the one on the left is illegal because of the exposed terminals. The one on the right doesn't apply to the standards we have been talking about as its not a recessed fitting. It is metal though so still has to be earthed to the relevant standards with an earthing conductor of relevant size.
its a much better light fitting though and good to see its not a recessed down light


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

Snowman said:


> the one on the left is illegal because of the exposed terminals. The one on the right doesn't apply to the standards we have been talking about as its not a recessed fitting. It is metal though so still has to be earthed to the relevant standards with an earthing conductor of relevant size.
> its a much better light fitting though and good to see its not a recessed down light



The one on the left, isn't that wired up the same as most other enclosures purchased at say pet shops etc.. ? I've seen plenty of them wired up like that. So is that actually illegal? If so, how are they still able to sell it? When im in a shop next time i'll take a photo and have a closer look, but im fairly sure the wire's are exposed.


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## Snowman (Sep 3, 2013)

Skitzmixer said:


> The one on the left, isn't that wired up the same as most other enclosures purchased at say pet shops etc.. ? I've seen plenty of them wired up like that. So is that actually illegal? If so, how are they still able to sell it? When im in a shop next time i'll take a photo and have a closer look, but im fairly sure the wire's are exposed.


Yep completely illegal. You can not have exposed terminals. It looks like this kind if fitting to me. (See bellow). Terminals can only be accessed by use of a tool. IE an enclosed box that you need a screw driver to access.
A lot of the light fittings sold are not to Australian standards. It's up to the elecrtical installer to ensure the fittings are installed to the Australian standards and not all fittings can be made to comply easily. I would refuse to install these types of fittings.

The only acceptable ES base has no exposed terminals. IE...

Typically the first fitting I showed are meant to go into a casing. (Though this isn't an es fitting its the same principle)


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## Moreliavridis (Sep 3, 2013)

Not only is it dangerous, if your house catches fire your house insurance will be void.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

Moreliavridis said:


> Not only is it dangerous, if your house catches fire your house insurance will be void.



WoW that's crazy. I just assumed if they're able to sell it in a pet shop then it cant be illegal. Wonder why nobody's put a stop to this?


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## Moreliavridis (Sep 3, 2013)

If its a pre wired light with a moulded plug light those exoterra lights and they can also sell the fittings. But you are responsible for getting it wired. 
It's the same as bunnings they sell power cable but technically your not allowed to install it.


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## Snowman (Sep 3, 2013)

It's what the DIY don't know about wiring that makes them confident. Electricians are licensed for a reason and most DIY by unlicensed people is not only illegal but dangerous. Most people have the best intentions. But it's their ignorance in a field that they are not specialized in that let's them down. 
If you have a license to keep snakes, respect the need for a license to wire up enclosures.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

Moreliavridis said:


> If its a pre wired light with a moulded plug light those exoterra lights and they can also sell the fittings. But you are responsible for getting it wired.
> It's the same as bunnings they sell power cable but technically your not allowed to install it.



Ah sorry, didn't explain myself well enough I was referring to the whole pack, the ones that are sold already pre-wired and installed into the enclosure, with the glass etc.. just add reptiles. Like below:


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## Snowman (Sep 3, 2013)

I can't see the terminals. If they are exposed its illegal. What is also illegal about that viv above is the thermostat is 240v and is installed in a situation where it could get wet (via a python pooping on it). It's not made for such a situation as liquidcan easily enter via the top and should only be installed on a wall in an environment where it will never come into contact with liquids.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

Well that picture was just copied from a sponsors website.. So how are they still able to sell it then?
Not trying to be defensive or argue, its just got me flustered as to how companies can sell something like that, and expect everyone to turn a blind eye to it.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 3, 2013)

Thanks for the info Snow and OldestMagician.

Skitzmixer looking at that pic I can see a few potential issues.
The first being that there doesn't seem to be an heat protection on the ceiling directly above the fittings.The second is that it looks to have been wired with 2 or 3 core flex which after a while would result in the insulation becoming brittle along with the potential problems that would create.Lastly like Snow has already written the termination on the fitting you have circled doesn't seem to be covered.

Much better to have all wiring inside enclosures done with high temp rated wire,the type they use in ovens etc.Run that through to a junction box on the outside of the enclosure and connect it to normal flex from that point.Maybe those issues are not really issues at all with regard to standards but I would be surprised if they weren't.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> Thanks for the info Snow and OldestMagician.
> 
> Skitzmixer looking at that pic I can see a few potential issues.
> The first being that there doesn't seem to be an heat protection on the ceiling directly above the fittings.The second is that it looks to have been wired with 2 or 3 core flex which after a while would result in the insulation becoming brittle along with the potential problems that would create.Lastly like Snow has already written the termination on the fitting you have circled doesn't seem to be covered.


 
As I said in my above post, the picture was taken from a sponsors website, so how are they legally able to sell something that's not compliant and potentially illegal?


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## andynic07 (Sep 3, 2013)

Skitzmixer said:


> As I said in my above post, the picture was taken from a sponsors website, so how are they legally able to sell something that's not compliant and potentially illegal?


I think that things like this slip through the cracks because it isn't really fixed wiring and it isn't really an appliance even though it can be plugged into a socket outlet and moved around. If you reported a manufacturer of one of these enclosures to the ESO (electrical safety office) I am sure some action would be taken. I am also sure that as a consumer with no electrical experience if you bought one of the said enclosures in good faith and it burnt your house down the insurance company would pay out but go after the manufacturer for compensation. Also if the worst happened and someone died the company would be in real trouble and someone would be facing jail time. I think liability wise you are somewhat protected because you have no training but that does not stop the heart ache of losing property or life.


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## Skitzmixer (Sep 3, 2013)

ahhh ok, well that makes sense then. Just seemed strange that if its so bad to those who are electricians then how are they still on our shelves? I would of thought qualified electricians would of wired them up in the first place anyway..


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## Snowman (Sep 3, 2013)

What not to DIY with plumbing and electrical


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## Ramsayi (Sep 3, 2013)

Skitzmixer said:


> As I said in my above post, the picture was taken from a sponsors website, so how are they legally able to sell something that's not compliant and potentially illegal?



No idea maybe ask the seller.



Skitzmixer said:


> ahhh ok, well that makes sense then. Just seemed strange that if its so bad to those who are electricians then how are they still on our shelves? I would of thought qualified electricians would of wired them up in the first place anyway..



Maybe they don't get wired by qualified people.I wonder if they would issue a compliance certificate along with the product? 


While on the subject does anyone know if you can buy perforated MDF? Same as pegboard but MDF


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## Virides (Sep 3, 2013)

The enclosures we made for our shows had 40mm Laptop Fans installed that extracted the heat from the cavity. Easily wired in and cheap as. Highly recommended if you are ever using down lights and have an enclosed space (ceiling cavity).


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## marcus0002 (Sep 22, 2013)

Reading all this has got me worried about my enclosure. Its a homemade one that I got off gumtree. Its melamine with a standard bayonet socket screwed onto it with the thermostat probe next to it. Do I need to change anything on it or add heat shielding?


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## Snowman (Sep 23, 2013)

marcus0002 said:


> Reading all this has got me worried about my enclosure. Its a homemade one that I got off gumtree. Its melamine with a standard bayonet socket screwed onto it with the thermostat probe next to it. Do I need to change anything on it or add heat shielding?



Keep an eye on the light fitting. It's plastic so wont last for ever. And never use a ceramic heat emitter with it.


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## Newhere (Sep 23, 2013)

I have an enclosure thats very similar to the black one in post #33. It has two lights wired together and another one wired to its own plug. They are very dodgy and the cable between the light fittings feels loose and the light fittings are crooked so when you screw a bulb in its not in the centre of the fitting and the bulb or che can come in contact with the fitting itself. 

The people that sold it to me are lucky it was so cheap or they would be in trouble. I googled the enclosure and they go for over $300 in the shops and for the quality it is a total rip off. I got it for 130 and I'm going to take the lights out and put a heating panel in and remove the wall mounted thermostat (with holes in the top to allow water in) and just get a proper dimming thermostat for the heat panel. I thought I was buying a ready made enclosure but I wont put my house or my familys lives in the hands of the clowns that made this.


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## andynic07 (Sep 23, 2013)

Newhere said:


> I have an enclosure thats very similar to the black one in post #33. It has two lights wired together and another one wired to its own plug. They are very dodgy and the cable between the light fittings feels loose and the light fittings are crooked so when you screw a bulb in its not in the centre of the fitting and the bulb or che can come in contact with the fitting itself.
> 
> The people that sold it to me are lucky it was so cheap or they would be in trouble. I googled the enclosure and they go for over $300 in the shops and for the quality it is a total rip off. I got it for 130 and I'm going to take the lights out and put a heating panel in and remove the wall mounted thermostat (with holes in the top to allow water in) and just get a proper dimming thermostat for the heat panel. I thought I was buying a ready made enclosure but I wont put my house or my familys lives in the hands of the clowns that made this.



I would not bother with the extra expense of a dimming thermostat if you intend on using a heat panel, I would use either a pulse proportionate or on/off thermostat. Good on you for fixing it up and not just using it like some would.


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## kr0nick (Sep 23, 2013)

*Hey*



Snowman said:


> the one on the left is illegal because of the exposed terminals. The one on the right doesn't apply to the standards we have been talking about as its not a recessed fitting. It is metal though so still has to be earthed to the relevant standards with an earthing conductor of relevant size.
> its a much better light fitting though and good to see its not a recessed down light



Exactly what I have been looking for to use in monitor enclosures. 
Can you pm me A link or where you brought this fitting? And also A rough price thanks mate


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## Newhere (Sep 23, 2013)

Thanks andynic, I had a read about the habistat pulse proportionate thermostats and I understand they would be better but I've found a dimming one that has an extra socket and a timer for a day viewing light so I'd prefer to get that one. Its not too expensive and you can get an on/off version for about $20 cheaper. I'm not worried about the 20 bucks so do you think the dimming one would be better than the on/off one? 

I'm just asking because I've read that the dimming ones are more accurate.


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## andynic07 (Sep 23, 2013)

Newhere said:


> Thanks andynic, I had a read about the habistat pulse proportionate thermostats and I understand they would be better but I've found a dimming one that has an extra socket and a timer for a day viewing light so I'd prefer to get that one. Its not too expensive and you can get an on/off version for about $20 cheaper. I'm not worried about the 20 bucks so do you think the dimming one would be better than the on/off one?
> 
> I'm just asking because I've read that the dimming ones are more accurate.


They have slightly less temperature fluctuations due to the nature of how they work but nothing to worry about. You could probably buy a good quality on off mat thermostat for the same price as the cheap thermostat that you are talking about and it will last longer but the dimming thermostat will give you the flexibility to use a light in the future if you like.


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## Snowman (Sep 23, 2013)

kr0nick said:


> Exactly what I have been looking for to use in monitor enclosures.
> Can you pm me A link or where you brought this fitting? And also A rough price thanks mate


Wrong person. Not my set up...


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## Newhere (Sep 23, 2013)

Fair enough I might aswell get a habistat on/off or pp thermostat and just get a timer from bunnings for a viewing light. I just liked the fact that the cheaper one has it all in the one unit and I've only seen good reviews about them so I thought they might be ok.


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## andynic07 (Sep 23, 2013)

Newhere said:


> Fair enough I might aswell get a habistat on/off or pp thermostat and just get a timer from bunnings for a viewing light. I just liked the fact that the cheaper one has it all in the one unit and I've only seen good reviews about them so I thought they might be ok.


They should be fine to use if that is what you want and a lot of people use them but I don't think they have stood the test of time yet. Saying that I had two microclimate B1 dimming thermostats that were faulty, I got a mate to fix them and they both had a $3.20 part fail and I bought him a bottle of scotch for helping.


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## Newhere (Sep 23, 2013)

Thats true you never know with electrical things even the expensive ones can be faulty. You're lucky you were able to get them fixed, if anything electrical stops working for me I throw it out and for a $3.20 part and a bottle of scotch you saved heaps.


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