# Diamond just started doing this



## NickD (Apr 6, 2016)

Hey Everyone,

1st post...wooo...

I've got a 7ft Diamond Python that's just started to squash himself up against his glass... is this common behaviour or is he trying to tell us something?

He came from a zoo and was handled a lot, so we are trying to get him to relax a bit now he's retired....

He's my first Diamond - any good advice appreciated  thanks!

Nick


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## alichamp (Apr 6, 2016)

Hi! Do you have a good temperature gradient in the enclosure? What are your warm and cool end temps?


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## NickD (Apr 6, 2016)

alichamp said:


> Hi! Do you have a good temperature gradient in the enclosure? What are your warm and cool end temps?



Hey alichamp,

Yes it's around 28-30 under the lamp and 23 at the other end...


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## Norm (Apr 6, 2016)

Temperature related was my first thought too but really don't know. How bigs the enclosure? How many hours of heat are you giving? Very nice diamond by the looks


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## Iguana (Apr 6, 2016)

Lovely looking Diamond, congrats! 
My diamond will do this when he's hungry, what prey size is he eating? and how often is he being fed? 
Also does he have enough hiding spaces?


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## NickD (Apr 7, 2016)

Hey guys thanks - we are going to put him in a bigger enclosure soon - we're just fixing one up now. 

I hope it's cos he's hungry iguana - he hasn't eaten since we got him (coming up to four months) but apparently that's not unusual and we're letting him settle in.

He's 7'6" with a bit of his tail missing - very placid - likes helping me in the office...


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## NickD (Apr 7, 2016)

Norm - we have the heat lamp on a thermostat so it runs 24hrs. I've heard some people turn heat off at night ... 


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## hulloosenator (Apr 7, 2016)

NickD said:


> Norm - we have the heat lamp on a thermostat so it runs 24hrs. I've heard some people turn heat off at night ...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you live in Sydney , then you would not need heating at all during the night , summer / winter .


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 7, 2016)

NickD said:


> Norm - we have the heat lamp on a thermostat so it runs 24hrs. I've heard some people turn heat off at night ...



Hey Nick. I'm in Melbourne & only provide heat 4hrs per day.


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## NickD (Apr 7, 2016)

Yeh the lamp is not on that much really cos it's on the thermostat and he's got plenty of room to get away from it 


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## NickD (Apr 7, 2016)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Hey Nick. I'm in Melbourne & only provide heat 4hrs per day.



Hmmm interesting ... Ok so what's the diurnal range right now and do you turn it up in winter?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 7, 2016)

I provide a hot spot around 32 during spring, summer and early spring 4hrs a day. In late spring reduce to 3hrs. Mid winter down to 2 hrs.
Other than that its ambient indoor temp.
Daylight in line with seasonal periods. 

I'm sure you will find this is not unusual with Diamonds. When I saw the pic I like others immediately thought it was heat related and while your hot spot is ok if you are providing heat 24/7 it might suggest this to be the problem.


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## NickD (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks Paul - we might try this and put the lamp on a timer as well 

He has stopped squashing himself up against the glass. He's lying next to the edge of the tank a lot more now and seems to be taking more interest in what's happening around him


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## saikrett (Apr 7, 2016)

You really wanna turn the heat off for most of the day and all night,
Do a bit of reading about Diamond Python Syndrome, there's quite a few people that think it's caused by prolonged heat exposure,


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## africancichlidau (Apr 8, 2016)

saikrett said:


> You really wanna turn the heat off for most of the day and all night,
> Do a bit of reading about Diamond Python Syndrome, there's quite a few people that think it's caused by prolonged heat exposure,



I am one of these people, I have no proof but believe it to be caused by too high a temp and lack of UV light.


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## NickD (Apr 8, 2016)

Ok will do that today thanks - it's great to hear some of this stuff - it helps a lot 


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 8, 2016)

africancichlidau said:


> I am one of these people, I have no proof but believe it to be caused by too high a temp and lack of UV light.



This how urban myths start - you have no proof but you "believe..." What does that actually mean, and how is it helpful to the OP? Your theory is simply a theory without any evidence whatsoever, and not something that needs to influence the OP. Diamonds can indeed encounter very high temperatures through the warmer months, throughout their range. They will bask (usually mornings and late afternoons), reach an optimum temperature and then retire until the heat of the day has gone. Like all pythons, they DO NOT need UV, it won't cause them any harm, but it is not necessary for good health.

From what the OP has said, I would be concerned that it either has not fed, or not been offered food, for more than four months during the time of the year when it should be feeding ravenously. In most cases Carpets & Diamonds which are well adapted to captivity, as this one should be, will feed as soon as food is offered, even on the first day in its new home. It looks like there are husbandry issues - too cool, and not enough heat for long enough during the heat cycle. A basking spot of around 34, with sufficient space in the enclosure for the animal to remove itself from heat when it has reached that optimum temperature. If the perforated metal sheet in the picture runs right across the bottom of the enclosure, it will keep the lower levels of the enclosure from getting suitably warm - convection will draw large amounts of cold air into the enclosure right across the bottom. In my experience, whenever Carpets are reluctant to feed, the first thing to look at is temperature. This is clearly a well acclimatised old-timer, and should need little or no time to "settle in." Unless there is some underlying health issue, the problem will be related to temperature. Four months without food during the period of peak activity, while it won't damage the animal in the long-term, shouldn't have gone unremarked for as long as it has.

Jamie


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## NickD (Apr 8, 2016)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I provide a hot spot around 32 during spring, summer and early spring 4hrs a day. In late spring reduce to 3hrs. Mid winter down to 2 hrs.
> Other than that its ambient indoor temp.
> Daylight in line with seasonal periods.
> 
> I'm sure you will find this is not unusual with Diamonds. When I saw the pic I like others immediately thought it was heat related and while your hot spot is ok if you are providing heat 24/7 it might suggest this to be the problem.



Yeh I really appreciate all the feedback guys 

There is a lot of consistency with all of your advice so I've turned the heat off and will give him 3-4 hrs a day - probs on a smaller lamp as well

He generally seems to be a happy snake - he gets a run in the backyard regularly for some sun.

We just need to get him to start eating now - I'll be going through the threads to see what's on here but it's great to see so many other Diamond owners and chat to you guys!


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## alichamp (Apr 8, 2016)

Ok NickD, so the plot thickens. I'm trying to get my head around it myself as I'm on here to learn as much as I can if I should get a snake one day. 


So it seems that [MENTION=32852]Pauls_Pythons[/MENTION] and [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] recommend a hot spot of 32-34, which is 2-6 degrees higher than yours currently.
 

 [MENTION=32852]Pauls_Pythons[/MENTION] and others suggest reduced day/night heat exposure.
 

 [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] says your diamond not feeding is a problem and indicates it may not be hot enough for your diamond to be tempted.
 
That's what I got from it. All of which is consistent and can be integrated together.

Is that how others see it?


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 8, 2016)

32...34... won't make a lot of difference - temperatures fluctuate a lot more than this in their natural habitat, but it's probably better to err on the warmer side as long as the snake can move when it wants too. There seems to be common belief that Diamonds need generally cooler temps day and night throughout the year. This may be erroneous, because as I've said, daytime temps even in the southern part of their range can frequently exceed 40C during the summer months, while overall the averages are cooler for the year. This is important because many keepers therefore believe that cooler max daytime enclosure temps are appropriate even in summer for their Diamonds. Most Carpets will thrive if heat is turned off for 14-16 hours a day year-round, and maybe longer during the cooler months - allowing 4-5 hours heat daily through winter is probably quite enough especially if you're planning on breeding.

It is likely that Diamonds do better if they are kept ON AVERAGE cooler throughout the year cooler, but that probably shouldn't mean denying them a decent heat gradient through the summer, for 3-4 months. DPS may or may not exist, and the reasons we cite for its existence may or may not be the right ones (except the UV myth). I know anecdotally that they don't thrive long-term in the tropics, and will decline in health after several years of warmer than their usual environmental temps. Why this should be seems to be a mystery yet to be solved, but a few months exposure to "normal" Carpet summer temps won't harm them at all.

Jamie.


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## Norm (Apr 8, 2016)

I believe theres a lot to be learnt from Jamies (Pythoninfinite) two posts. Any new keepers out there would do well to tap into his posts.

I`d say Jamie has hit the nail on the head with this one, those glass tanks are crap. Get him into a wooden enclosure with a proper heat gradient and basking spot and he should start eating again.


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 8, 2016)

Thanks Norm . The main problem I see these days is with keepers who have access to these animals but who have no context for them anywhere but in a cage. To fully understand them (or as much as we can hope to) we need to understand how they function in their natural world and adapt it as we see fit. Information can be rather formulaic - as in "Diamonds should be kept cooler than other species..." but unless you can adapt this information with an understanding of how they go in the bush year-round, you just don't understand what is really needed for their long-term health. Average cooler temps may not mean cooler summer temps, it may, and probably does, mean a shorter period of full-day summer heating, and shorter periods of heat in the winter. The same with the UV thing - we hear less of that myth these days, but it still crops up from time to time to distort the understanding of new keepers.

Jamie


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## NickD (Apr 10, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> Thanks Norm . The main problem I see these days is with keepers who have access to these animals but who have no context for them anywhere but in a cage. To fully understand them (or as much as we can hope to) we need to understand how they function in their natural world and adapt it as we see fit. Information can be rather formulaic - as in "Diamonds should be kept cooler than other species..." but unless you can adapt this information with an understanding of how they go in the bush year-round, you just don't understand what is really needed for their long-term health. Average cooler temps may not mean cooler summer temps, it may, and probably does, mean a shorter period of full-day summer heating, and shorter periods of heat in the winter. The same with the UV thing - we hear less of that myth these days, but it still crops up from time to time to distort the understanding of new keepers.
> 
> Jamie



Thanks Jamie - we have a wooden enclosure so we're going to swap him into that as soon as the current resident sheds.

We'll give him 4 hrs a day of 32c and then turn it off for the rest -

good plan?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 10, 2016)

Thats a *hot spot* at 32-35. The animal needs to have the option to get away from that heat if they wish.
You need to measure the temp of the surface closest to the heat source. (Most rep keepers these days use a non contact thermometer)
No good relying on the temp shown on the thermostat.


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