# Snake bite?



## peteman9 (Nov 7, 2011)

I believe I may have been bitten by a snake on the weekend.

At the time I was lying in the grass of a paddock near Seymour Vic under my hang glider. I felt a bit of pain on my thigh but ignored it as I was concentrating on keeping my glider level in the wind. The pain was sharp and minor, more annoying. I remember feeling my leg a minute later through my pants and feeling some slight bumps. In the shower that night (10hrs later) I noticed 2 blood spot sores, 20 mm apart, slightly elevated, yellow bruising around the area (I generally dont bruise). Obviously if it was a snake I wasn't envenomed as I didn't feel any ill effects.

Is it likely that I was bitten by a snake? I'm curious

Thanks in advance,

Pete


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 7, 2011)

Certainly looks like it, as you haven't had any ill affects I would imagine something non venomous, maybe a python of some sort at that size.


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Certainly looks like it, as you haven't had any ill affects I would imagine something non venomous, maybe a python of some sort at that size.



Snake newbie, have you ever been bitten by a python
Do you know the anatomy of snakes

Pete, i would say it could be a possiblity or you sat on something that had two sharp piece sticking out
Mind you if its 20mm apart it would have to be a pretty big snake, thats a big head for the fangs to be 20mm apart
Not sure though but would like to see what others think


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## Poggle (Nov 7, 2011)

Specks said:


> Snake newbie, have you ever been bitten by a python
> Do you know the anatomy of snakes
> 
> Pete, i would say it could be a possiblity or you sat on something that had two sharp piece sticking out
> ...



Hahah i completely agree about the anotomy... you will get mis matched punctures from Pythons as they do not have "pronounced" fangs. 20mm is a decent bite. i found a RBB qith a 18mm bite, it was a big snake and it hit like a hammer, so you would know if it bit you i would think.


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

a pythons bite is like a an oval of just teeth marks and thats if he if he gets you with the top and bottom
Definetly a big snake and maybe some people have some stats about jaw anatomies
And yes if you got bit you would know about it not to mention seeing one cause a baby wouldnt give you a bite that big

Im now thinking you just sat on something sharp and it coincidentally had that shape


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## Wally (Nov 7, 2011)

No pythons in Seymour, unless they're escapees.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 7, 2011)

I have infact been bitten by a python yes, however as I am writing this on my iPad maybe others are seeing better images of the photos. I only know that the bites I get from my spotted python are quite literally two puncture marks about a cm apart, nothing from the bottom teeth at all.


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## Poggle (Nov 7, 2011)

omg thats not a spotted python it is a *Suta punctata*


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

does she actually bite you or just nip
when mine "bites" that means the full deal, bite hold on and coil around my hand and not letting go for 10-20 minutes. thia leaves behind a mark for every tooth she has
first of all he would of felt any kind of bite and something that was very small and pointy that he sat on may have just pricked him and as he said he felt a little bit of pain but just ignored it


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 7, 2011)

I would be more suspicious it could be a bite from a spider, however not many Victorian spiders are big enough to give that sort of spacing. It sounds very far apart for a snake bite to me.


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## waruikazi (Nov 7, 2011)

It is quite easy to be bitten by a ven and not know about it. I've met people who have even been tagged by mulgas and not noticed.



Specks said:


> a pythons bite is like a an oval of just teeth marks and thats if he if he gets you with the top and bottom
> Definetly a big snake and maybe some people have some stats about jaw anatomies
> And yes if you got bit you would know about it not to mention seeing one cause a baby wouldnt give you a bite that big
> 
> Im now thinking you just sat on something sharp and it coincidentally had that shape


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## mattyg (Nov 7, 2011)

or possibly hit twice with the same object/stick or whatever.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 7, 2011)

Nah they are angry warning snaps, she's like a semiautomatic, she'll bite you ten times in a few seconds before you even realize she bit you the first time :lol:


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> It is quite easy to be bitten by a ven and not know about it. I've met people who have even been tagged by mulgas and not noticed.



yeh i know you can be bitten but what classifies a bite, full fang penetration or a scrape of the skin enough to drop some venom along it
A friend of mine was envenonmated and sent to hospital from one fag scraping his knuckle, not actually penetrating it
There are some discrepancies



snakeynewbie said:


> Nah they are angry warning snaps, she's like a semiautomatic, she'll bite you ten times in a few seconds before you even realize she bit you the first time :lol:



yeh thats what i was thinking, not really a bite just nipped, get her to bite and hold on then you will see what a "bite" looks like
easy way to do this, rub a mouse on the side of your hand or arm and see what she thinks of it


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## waruikazi (Nov 7, 2011)

Specks said:


> yeh i know you can be bitten but what classifies a bite, full fang penetration or a scrape of the skin enough to drop some venom along it
> A friend of mine was envenonmated and sent to hospital from one fag scraping his knuckle, not actually penetrating it
> There are some discrepancies



To me a bite is when something puts its mouth around something.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 7, 2011)

Fags are more likely to burn your knuckles.


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## richoman_3 (Nov 7, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> I would be more suspicious it could be a bite from a spider, however not many Victorian spiders are big enough to give that sort of spacing. It sounds very far apart for a snake bite to me.



really only mouse spiders would be that far apart...

my guess would be a little whip snake or white lip snake?, espicially if wasnt too many symptoms


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## nico77 (Nov 7, 2011)

I think you would have noticed a snake when you moved the glider , maybe 2 seprate bites from a small spider ?

cheers Nico


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

richoman_3 said:


> really only mouse spiders would be that far apart...
> 
> my guess would be a little whip snake or white lip snake?, espicially if wasnt too many symptoms



just contradicted your self there buddy, you said on mouse spiders would be that far apart then you say maybe a whip, whips have tiny heads along with white lips


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## richoman_3 (Nov 7, 2011)

Specks said:


> just contradicted your self there buddy, you said on mouse spiders would be that far apart then you say maybe a whip, whips have tiny heads along with white lips


yeah but i didnt say mousies were there, was just answering his question 
wolf spiders, huntsmans and maybe trappies there

plus i only said lil whip and white lip coz they would be the only snakes round melbournish that dont kill you (not too sure they are found in seymour though)
maybe its a bat


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## Tassie97 (Nov 7, 2011)

staple? lol


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## longqi (Nov 7, 2011)

Firstly You would have to say it is definitely not a python bite

Secondly 90% of bites from Aussie snakes are dry bites
That means no venom was injected
Knew you were too big to eat and was just telling you to go away

Plenty of decent size brownies could have a gape that width

Absolutely agree with wairakusi that lots of snakes are not felt


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 7, 2011)

Tigers are known for dry bites and they are found in and around Seymour, 
they have wide heads and 20ml gap wouldnt be unusual.
Could have been a tiger letting you know he was there.
Youll never know now though i think.


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## SteveNT (Nov 7, 2011)

Lucky. You might not have ever known anything again.


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## kal777 (Nov 7, 2011)

id say given that it is that far apart and the two holes like they are, as well as your not sick (or dead, i would say if it was a king brown that is fairly common in Victoria and you left it this long you would be pretty sick or worse) it is most likely a spider bite and by spider i mean a huntsman spider or even a large wolf spider. these are the only two spiders in Victoria that are large enough and non-venomous. 

however i am slightly concerned why your asking for medical advice from a forum and not a emergency ward?


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 7, 2011)

Did he ask for medical advice? Pretty sure he was just wondering what may have made a bite of that type, horse has probably bolted at this point as far as going to the emergency department!


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## Specks (Nov 7, 2011)

kal777 said:


> id say given that it is that far apart and the two holes like they are, as well as your not sick (or dead, i would say if it was a king brown that is fairly common in Victoria and you left it this long you would be pretty sick or worse) it is most likely a spider bite and by spider i mean a huntsman spider or even a large wolf spider. these are the only two spiders in Victoria that are large enough and non-venomous.
> 
> however i am slightly concerned why your asking for medical advice from a forum and not a emergency ward?



the op said he had no ill effects


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## kal777 (Nov 7, 2011)

Specks said:


> the op said he had no ill effects



yea, but do you have a sever car crash and manage to get out of the car with no cuts and go home thinking youll be fine? thats how people die from internal bleeding and trauma.


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## longqi (Nov 7, 2011)

if he had envenomated by a tiger black or brown he would certainly have known about it within a fairly short time span

As there were zero effects he is now asking what it could have been

Very different to any severe car crash


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 7, 2011)

Just had a thought, another thing that would be close to 2cm apart is the prongs on a single twist of barbed wire, something which would be fairly common laying around in many paddocks, given there is some bruising it occurs to me that maybe its more likely to be something a bit more blunt, snakes teeth are pretty sharp and I would think that other than being due to venom? it would be unlikely for themt cause bruising like that from a simple bite(as opposed to a chomp and chew) A good whack on to the ground which happened to connect with some barbed wire opn the other hand could certainly cause a puncture as wel as a bruise.


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## noved (Nov 7, 2011)

um peteman9 asked the question a few hours ago then nothing... hope it was just barbed wire and not a delayed reaction to something a bit nastier..


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## waruikazi (Nov 8, 2011)

Snake saliva can cause bruising that you wouldn't expect from a normal puncture wound. I used to notice it alot with carpet and BTS bites. I would bruise and swell up significantly.



snakeynewbie said:


> Just had a thought, another thing that would be close to 2cm apart is the prongs on a single twist of barbed wire, something which would be fairly common laying around in many paddocks, given there is some bruising it occurs to me that maybe its more likely to be something a bit more blunt, snakes teeth are pretty sharp and I would think that other than being due to venom? it would be unlikely for themt cause bruising like that from a simple bite(as opposed to a chomp and chew) A good whack on to the ground which happened to connect with some barbed wire opn the other hand could certainly cause a puncture as wel as a bruise.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 8, 2011)

Interesting waruikazi, ive never bruised but i would imagine it would depend on the snake itself and also how reactive you were persopnally to the saliva.


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## waruikazi (Nov 8, 2011)

It certaintly does.



snakeynewbie said:


> Interesting waruikazi, ive never bruised but i would imagine it would depend on the snake itself and also how reactive you were persopnally to the saliva.


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## richoman_3 (Nov 8, 2011)

kal777 said:


> id say given that it is that far apart and the two holes like they are, as well as your not sick (or dead, i would say if it was a king brown that is fairly common in Victoria and you left it this long you would be pretty sick or worse) it is most likely a spider bite and by spider i mean a huntsman spider or even a large wolf spider. these are the only two spiders in Victoria that are large enough and non-venomous.
> 
> however i am slightly concerned why your asking for medical advice from a forum and not a emergency ward?



there are bigger non venomous spiders in vic than wolfies and huntsmans .
it would not of been a wolf spider coz the only ones there are lycosid godeffroyi and they dont get big, 6cm max...
and it could be a huntsman but do doubt it, would be badge huntsmans and social huntsmans there, could of been a larger one of each but they still cause nausea etc


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## Specks (Nov 8, 2011)

im betting on barbed wire now


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## PicklePants (Nov 8, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Interesting waruikazi, ive never bruised but i would imagine it would depend on the snake itself and also how reactive you were persopnally to the saliva.



Personally, I am extremely sensitive to it. If one of my pythons drops a rat and I pick it up and get the saliva on me, I get a red spot on my skin and it itches slightly. You can imagine what a bite does to me. It burns, itches, stings and throbs all at once. Not to mention the swelling lol, and they tend to scar for about 3 months before fading. As for bruising, it depends on where they get me.
I have been bitten by spotted pythons, darwins and a scrubby.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Nov 8, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Snake saliva can cause bruising that you wouldn't expect from a normal puncture wound. I used to notice it alot with carpet and BTS bites. I would bruise and swell up significantly.



Certainly a valid consideration. I have also experienced significant bruising from larger python bites, I always chalked it up to force. I had a water python that would launch hersef, full bodied, into her strikes and it always bruised. Also have a few adult jungles that tend to leave bruises and localized swelling when they get ya, but again, they strike hard enough to rip the tail off an adult rat.

As far as the OP goes, could be a dry elapid bite, just as likely though to be a two pronged pointy stick wound.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 8, 2011)

If it was a snake it was an elapid as you only have two puncture marks. As _*Specks*_ astutely pointed out, a snake with that distance between its fangs is going to be a reasonable size. The width of the head would be at least 25mm wide or 1 inch in the old measure measurements. So Death Adders aside, you are looking at something between 40cm and 1m in length. It would be an abnormally large whip snake to have a bite of that width, so I think to you discount that, although the bite from a whip can produce the symptoms described. Basically you are left with your dangerously venomous elapids as possible culprits.

As_* GeckoPhotographer *_pointed out, it is not a spider – the fangs of spiders are relatively close together and there are none in Victoria large enough to achieve the separation of those punctures.

Another possibility is a large centipede. They do produce a painful bite that subsides after a few minutes. Given you were bitten through clothing, the effects of the bite would have been ameliorated. Carefully check the puncture wounds. If they are directed down but towards each other, then that would confirm it was a centipede. The fangs are sharp tipped but become very thick, very quickly, in contrast to the needle like fangs of an elapid. This, combined with the strong muscle that pulls then together so they enter the flesh, causes a pincer like effect on the intervening tissue. So mild bruising, particularly between the puncture marks, is usual. The fact that there were raised lumps indicates that you were injected with venom and your body is developing a localised reaction to that. Again, this is more typical of a centipede bite than a snake bite. 

Blue


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## mysnakesau (Nov 8, 2011)

Snake_Whisperer said:


> Certainly a valid consideration. I have also experienced significant bruising from larger python bites, I always chalked it up to force. I had a water python that would launch hersef, full bodied, into her strikes and it always bruised. Also have a few adult jungles that tend to leave bruises and localized swelling when they get ya, but again, they strike hard enough to rip the tail off an adult rat.
> 
> As far as the OP goes, could be a dry elapid bite, just as likely though to be a two pronged pointy stick wound.



Like this...This was the day after a bite. The following day it went very black and didn't start to fade for a week..


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## richoman_3 (Nov 8, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Another possibility is a large centipede. They do produce a painful bite that subsides after a few minutes. Given you were bitten through clothing, the effects of the bite would have been ameliorated. Carefully check the puncture wounds. If they are directed down but towards each other, then that would confirm it was a centipede. The fangs are sharp tipped but become very thick, very quickly, in contrast to the needle like fangs of an elapid. This, combined with the strong muscle that pulls then together so they enter the flesh, causes a pincer like effect on the intervening tissue. So mild bruising, particularly between the puncture marks, is usual. The fact that there were raised lumps indicates that you were injected with venom and your body is developing a localised reaction to that. Again, this is more typical of a centipede bite than a snake bite.
> 
> Blue



it will not be a centipede mate.
only pedes in seymour are cormocephalus aurantiipes (110mm) and cormocephalus esulcatus (70mm). they will not have big enough fangs and if so they would hurt so much, a bite from an average size pede burns for a week.
only pede that could produce 2cm gap are larger ethmostigmus rubripes in NQLD


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## mysnakesau (Nov 8, 2011)

A centipede would leave a track, too, wouldn't it? Or not necessarily? My mother was stung/bitten by a centipede and she had a track of inflammation from her wrist to elbow.


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## Specks (Nov 8, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> Like this...This was the day after a bite. The following day it went very black and didn't start to fade for a week..



Wow
do you get that from most bites ?


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## mysnakesau (Nov 8, 2011)

From feed bites you would, specially from a snake this big, and he is only 8ft. This was a feed bite and boy does he have a strong pair of clamps  He got my opposite hand too so the back of my hand had a lump that looked like those you see on cartoons when they bump their heads, and the back of my hand was black, too but not as dark as this one.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 9, 2011)

richoman_3 said:


> it will not be a centipede mate.
> only pedes in seymour are cormocephalus aurantiipes (110mm) and cormocephalus esulcatus (70mm). they will not have big enough fangs and if so they would hurt so much, a bite from an average size pede burns for a week.
> only pede that could produce 2cm gap are larger ethmostigmus rubripes in NQLD


Please do not call me “mate”.

It is my understanding that _Scolopendra moristans_ is well established through Victoria. I disagree that only _E. rubripes_ is large enough to deliver that bite. A large specimen of _S. moristans_ would be capable of opening its jaws to that extent. Irrespective, an examination of the wound would quickly give a definitive answer. I will say that from what I can see in the photo it does not look like a centipede bite but I cannot be sure.



What the OP has not said, and is critical to determining the potential source of the punctures, is the orientation of the bite sight in relation to the ground and how soon after him landing there did it happen. Was it underneath and in contact with the ground? Was it just above ground? Or was it significant distance from the ground? For example, if it happened where his leg was contacting the ground, then plant thorns are the most likely explanation. Also, if he had been in that spot for 5 or 10 seconds or more, then it is highly unlikely to be a snake. The movement and noise would frighten it off. He would virtually have had to land on top of it. 

I am assuming he felt only one lot of pain, such that both punctures occurred simultaneously. Even though wasps do not normally leave a puncture wound, I would otherwise consider this an outside possibility. I discounted Bull Ants for a similar reason – you’d need two, simultaneously stinging at the same time and only once. They normally bite first to get a good purchase and then proceed with multiple stings. 

Blue


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## richoman_3 (Nov 9, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Please do not call me “mate”.
> 
> It is my understanding that _Scolopendra moristans_ is well established through Victoria. I disagree that only _E. rubripes_ is large enough to deliver that bite. A large specimen of _S. moristans_ would be capable of opening its jaws to that extent. Irrespective, an examination of the wound would quickly give a definitive answer. I will say that from what I can see in the photo it does not look like a centipede bite but I cannot be sure.
> 
> ...



only only morsitans are in NW vic in the mallee...  and they too only reach a maximum of 115mm.
so no populations around where he is  , like i said, only cormocephalus aurantiipes and cormocephalus esulcatus are widespread through victoria. (also ive been finding some cormocephalus turneri specimens which were only recorded in the mallee aswell so thats weird)
morsitans vary HEAPS (so do rubripes) in australia and i estimate there to be about 200 forms (most of those in WA)
average size for them is about 90mm.
the ones that could attain a 2cm gap bite would probably be some around Cqld, biggest ive seen/have (3 forms), all 16cm in length.
never seen or heard of any bigger morsitans in australia 

and although everyone reacts differently to invert bites ive never heard of anyone saying that pede bites are not painful for a long time , most people say they burn like hell for over a week - thats just with average 100mm specimens


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## mysnakesau (Nov 9, 2011)

noved said:


> um peteman9 asked the question a few hours ago then nothing... hope it was just barbed wire and not a delayed reaction to something a bit nastier..



Its now two days. Hope all is good peteman


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## richoman_3 (Nov 9, 2011)

yep lets hope nothing bad has happened !


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 9, 2011)

Probably just a one post wonder id say


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## richoman_3 (Nov 9, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Probably just a one post wonder id say



so what?
still hope they are ok...


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 9, 2011)

I wasnt having a go, geez touchie much. I was just saying that given he didnt even start the thread until well after any negative effects were likely to have been experienced its much more likely that he started the thread git a coupe of responses and then wandered off into the ether of the interwebs never to be seen again. Of course i wasnt wishiong any ill on him.


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## moosenoose (Nov 9, 2011)

I suspect a vampire bat


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## GSXR_Boy (Nov 9, 2011)

Maybe bitten twice by a chubacubra.


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## richoman_3 (Nov 9, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> I wasnt having a go, geez touchie much. I was just saying that given he didnt even start the thread until well after any negative effects were likely to have been experienced its much more likely that he started the thread git a coupe of responses and then wandered off into the ether of the interwebs never to be seen again. Of course i wasnt wishiong any ill on him.



haha fair enough


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## dekisha (Feb 5, 2012)

this is the picture of my hand after boa, it's really near look like spider bites...
i had expedition few years ago and i suffered that horrible bite in the middle of jungle without any medical help, just my supplies.


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