# green tree snakes vs green tree pythons



## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Hey sorry in advance to all the people that are going to say this question has already been asked as I m sure it would have been but I m new and just suck at digging up old post (I don't know how to do it as it never seems to work for me even post I have read before I can never seem to find them again) anyway the question. What is the difference between green tree snakes and green tree pythons I aways thought it was two names for tje same python but got told today there totally different. . By the way I don't keep snake's or pythons thats why I know close to nothing about them. . . .thanks in advance guys. . .Ed


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## princessparrot (Jan 3, 2014)

One is a colubrid(Dendrelaphis punctulata)and one is a python(Morelia viridis). Totally different families. 
Just look them up and I'm sure you'll see the difference!


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

princessparrot said:


> One is a colubrid(Dendrelaphis punctulata)and one is a python(Morelia viridis). Totally different families.
> Just look them up and I'm sure you'll see the difference!



Ok thanks since there not a python does that mean they would have fangs and venom??


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## someday (Jan 3, 2014)

No they aren't venomous but they can give off a bad odour and bite when feeling threatened, they are a long and slender snake that is more active throughout the day look them up and you will see the difference it would of been faster.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

someday said:


> No they aren't venomous but they can give off a bad odour and bite when feeling threatened, they are a long and slender snake that is more active throughout the day look them up and you will see the difference it would of been faster.



Yeah looked them up as soon as I got given there proper names when I put in green tree snakes in my phone on Google it was showing me green tree snakes and green tree pythons so I didn't know which was which but now I do so thanks

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The Common Tree Snake*Dendrelaphis punctulata*(also called Green Tree Snake and Australian Tree Snake) is a slender, large-eyed, mildly venomous (essentially harmless to humans), diurnal snake found in many parts of Australia, especially in the northern and eastern coastal areas, and into Papua New Guinea.This common snake is harmless, readily recognised as it is an agile snake with a very slender head, body and tail. The body colour varies from green to olive-green to black dorsally in some parts of Queensland. They often have a pale to bright yellow throat and belly but other pale colours have been noted, with blue visible between the scales, especially anteriorly when agitated. Eyes are larger than in most snakes. Found in a variety of habitats ranging from rainforest to woodland and also inhabits some urban areas, where it preys on fish, frogs and small animals.


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## Firepac (Jan 3, 2014)

As to whether Green Tree Snakes are venomous or not this thread makes a good read . http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/tree-snake-whip-snake-129685/


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## Rlpreston (Jan 3, 2014)

someday said:


> No they aren't venomous but they can give off a bad odour and bite when feeling threatened, they are a long and slender snake that is more active throughout the day look them up and you will see the difference it would of been faster.



Don't know where you've heard that but they most certainly are venomous. 
They are Not considered dangerous to humans however.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Firepac said:


> As to whether Green Tree Snakes are venomous or not this thread makes a good read . http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/tree-snake-whip-snake-129685/



Hey firepac thanks for the link really appreciate it


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## someday (Jan 3, 2014)

Rlpreston said:


> Don't know where you've heard that but they most certainly are venomous.
> They are Not considered dangerous to humans however.


I don't believe so that's a brown tree snake that is mildly venomous


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

someday said:


> I don't believe so that's a brown tree snake that is mildly venomous



In that thread firepac posted seems to explain it the best I've find so far some really good info on whether there venomous or not it seems to be mixed

- - - Updated - - -

And the wiki on this site also says there mildly venomous


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## princessparrot (Jan 3, 2014)

Not all snakes beside pythons have fangs and are venomous. Most colubrids aren't to dangerous besides the boomslang.May have rear fangs(but I'm pretty sure these guys are fangless)


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Yes apparently these guys are fang less but mildly venomous although shouldn't harm humans I m not to sure as the information I keep finding changes from site to site


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## Firepac (Jan 3, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> Yes apparently these guys are fang less but mildly venomous although shouldn't harm humans I m not to sure as the information I keep finding changes from site to site



I would go with the information by Bryan Fry in the link to venomdoc forum.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Firepac said:


> I would go with the information by Bryan Fry in the link to venomdoc forum.



Yes well he also says they are venomous unless I m just reading it wrong. . 
For anyone not waiting to track it down them selfs his what bryan fry wrote about them being venomous i have just coped and pasted what he wrote hope thats aloud as i didnt know how to put in the link (not the best with comptuers) While the*Dendrelaphis*species, like virtually all other 'colubrids', are venomous, the venom gland for a 2 meter specimen would be around 25 millimeters long. The venom drop for drop is as toxic as comparative elapid venoms, however the quantity delivered is small (about a milligram or less) and the venom delivery not hugely efficient. They can deliver enough to help settle down a frog but not enough to cause symptoms in a human. Pop open the mouth of a roadkill or live one and you'll see some enlarge teeth in the back. Not as big as in Boiga but they are there


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## NicG (Jan 3, 2014)

I believe that it is socially irresponsible to label Common Tree Snakes as being venomous ...

With regards to venomous / non-venomous, the point I'm trying to make is that there is a stigma associated with the phrase "venomous snake" and rightly or wrongly, people see us keepers as experts. If we start saying that these common-in-backyard snakes are venomous - regardless of the qualification, people are increasingly alarmist and hear what they want to hear - then it could mean that many of these fascinating and beautiful snakes meet with an untimely death.

In this case, being 'right' may come with a cost.

[Full discussion in this thread: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/common-tree-snakes-venomous-tag-143636/]


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## Rlpreston (Jan 3, 2014)

someday said:


> I don't believe so that's a brown tree snake that is mildly venomous



I'm not sure how the rules work around posting screen shots instead of links but I'll give it a shot.









That's pretty reliable testimony there for the affirmative. 

Judging by his experience I would have to believe that they are venomous. Whether their venom has any effect on a human is of no consequence to that fact.


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## Rlpreston (Jan 3, 2014)

NicG said:


> I believe that it is socially irresponsible to label Common Tree Snakes as being venomous ...
> 
> With regards to venomous / non-venomous, the point I'm trying to make is that there is a stigma associated with the phrase "venomous snake" and rightly or wrongly, people see us keepers as experts. If we start saying that these common-in-backyard snakes are venomous - regardless of the qualification, people are increasingly alarmist and hear what they want to hear - then it could mean that many of these fascinating and beautiful snakes meet with an untimely death.
> 
> ...



I see your point and understand it but a fact is a fact. If there is any venom there (which I would believe there is at this stage) then they are venomous.

This is, unfortunately, an issue of trying to remove the link between the word 'venomous' and the word 'deadly' to the general population. In my opinion, describing things incorrectly is not the way to address that problem though.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

NicG said:


> I believe that it is socially irresponsible to label Common Tree Snakes as being venomous ...
> 
> With regards to venomous / non-venomous, the point I'm trying to make is that there is a stigma associated with the phrase "venomous snake" and rightly or wrongly, people see us keepers as experts. If we start saying that these common-in-backyard snakes are venomous - regardless of the qualification, people are increasingly alarmist and hear what they want to hear - then it could mean that many of these fascinating and beautiful snakes meet with an untimely death.
> 
> ...



I believe you are more right then i would like to admit as to people over reacting. .but I believe people should be given the right information and not just the information others believe they can handle or is "best" but that is just my opinion not looking to change your opinion just putting out both sides


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## andynic07 (Jan 3, 2014)

Rlpreston said:


> I see your point and understand it but a fact is a fact. If there is any venom there (which I would believe there is at this stage) then they are venomous.
> 
> This is, unfortunately, an issue of trying to remove the link between the word 'venomous' and the word 'deadly' to the general population. In my opinion, describing things incorrectly is not the way to address that problem though.
> 
> ...


I think that us "experts" need to use the correct terminology so not to confuse matters. I also think that it is our job to explain the difference between venomous and dangerous to humans. Many people realise that a daddy long legs is venomous but not dangerous to humans so with education the same can be achieved with snakes.


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## Newhere (Jan 3, 2014)

Q. Are green tree snakes venomous?

A. They are not as venomous as a green ant.

Then you guys can still say they are venomous without having to worry about making people fear them. Although I just want to say that most people that kill snakes don't identify them first.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Newhere said:


> Q. Are green tree snakes venomous?
> 
> A. They are not as venomous as a green ant.
> 
> Then you guys can still say they are venomous without having to worry about making people fear them. Although I just want to say that most people that kill snakes don't identify them first.



I agree alot of people that attack and kill snakes don't care what it is python, redbelly, tree snake, they just see its a snake and think its evil and try and kill it the uninformed are the most dangerous to snakes


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## Newhere (Jan 3, 2014)

Yeah but I can understand why they do it, I kill huntsman spiders when they come in my house because they creep me out, I know they only sting like a wasp but I still do it.


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## eddie19 (Jan 3, 2014)

Newhere said:


> Yeah but I can understand why they do it, I kill huntsman spiders when they come in my house because they creep me out, I know they only sting like a wasp but I still do it.



Yes I guess your right I never really thought off it like that a guess everyone is kinda biased in one way or another snakes creep me out which is probably a weird thing to be saying on a snake forum but I would never kill one no matter how venomous as I respect them to much but soon as I see a red back spider I can't get the shoe quick enough to kill it something I guess I should really think about nexy time I see one


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## dragondragon (Jan 4, 2014)

Venom gland = venomous.


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## jedi_339 (Jan 4, 2014)

dragondragon said:


> Venom gland = venomous.



Where do you stop? Venom glands are generally modified salivary glands, therefore shouldn't all land snakes have some gland to aid with digestion whether it be venom or saliva.

But if most venoms are proteins I secrete a protein from glands in my mouth.

Does that make me venomous to potatoes and other starchy foods?


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## Rlpreston (Jan 4, 2014)

jedi_339 said:


> Where do you stop? Venom glands are generally modified salivary glands, therefore shouldn't all land snakes have some gland to aid with digestion whether it be venom or saliva.
> 
> But if most venoms are proteins I secrete a protein from glands in my mouth.
> 
> Does that make me venomous to potatoes and other starchy foods?




You stop when they have saliva glands but not venom glands. Our saliva is not venom, it is not toxic. 







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## Radar (Jan 4, 2014)

Everyone loves showing how smart they are with a few technicalities in front of friends, doesn't always achieve the desired result amongst people that are already afraid


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## dragondragon (Jan 4, 2014)

jedi_339 said:


> Where do you stop? Venom glands are generally modified salivary glands, therefore shouldn't all land snakes have some gland to aid with digestion whether it be venom or saliva.
> 
> But if most venoms are proteins I secrete a protein from glands in my mouth.
> 
> Does that make me venomous to potatoes and other starchy foods?


Lmfao


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## Flexxx (Jan 4, 2014)

Nothing wrong with spiders hanging around your property, snakes too. Gives you somthing to look at, I only kill to eat with an exceptions for rats/mice to stop them eating my fruit and veg, flies/mozzies and foxes to stop them from atacking and eating our livestock

Lucky for the snakes around hear everyone is pritty switched on and dont kill the snakes, eather calling me to relocate them to a dam a bit further down the track or doin it there self if its safe to

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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

Well as to venom glad = venomous I m not sure I agree as I have read that bearded dragons have venom glads and they are not venomous?


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## BrownHash (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> Well as to venom glad = venomous I m not sure I agree as I have read that bearded dragons have venom glads and they are not venomous?



I'm interested in what makes you believe that they are not venomous?


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

BrownHash said:


> I'm interested in what makes you believe that they are not venomous?



I've got a question mark after "they are not venomous" so I wasn't stating that they are not venomous but opening it up for opinions although from what I have read and what other tell me I do not think they are but feel free to tell me other wise as I m always happy to learn


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## dragondragon (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> I've got a question mark after "they are not venomous" so I wasn't stating that they are not venomous but opening it up for opinions although from what I have read and what other tell me I do not think they are but feel free to tell me other wise as I m always happy to learn


 you didn't know the difference between a gts and gtp at start of thread what make you think there not venomous if they have a venom gland that should mean they're venomous it doesn't mean that they can kill you just means they can inflict some sort of pain mainly infections


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

dragondragon said:


> you didn't know the difference between a gts and gtp at start of thread what make you think there not venomous if they have a venom gland that should mean they're venomous it doesn't mean that they can kill you just means they can inflict some sort of pain mainly infections



Thats right I didn't know the difference between a gts and a gtp thats why I asked and did research and thats why I continue to ask things and the main reason for joining this forum . 
As I have said I was asking not stating thats why there was a question mark and I m not asking if they can kill humans just if they are venomous if it has evolved maybe it has the glands but no longer the venom??

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As to make the venom and not be able to inject it would be a waste of its energy so evolved as to not waste the energy on something that is no longer effective?


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## dragondragon (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> although from what I have read and what other tell me I do not think they are


Ok


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## Rlpreston (Jan 4, 2014)

It's not a matter of opinion or debatable.... If something has a gland that produces venom then, by definition, it is venomous. I'm not sure why that would be so hard to understand?! 





Radar said:


> Everyone loves showing how smart they are with a few technicalities in front of friends, doesn't always achieve the desired result amongst people that are already afraid



It is technically correct, just like it is technically correct that the earth is not flat. What's the use in dumbing things down for people? Better to teach them the reality of the situation than hide the facts so as not to scare them.


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## andynic07 (Jan 4, 2014)

BrownHash said:


> I'm interested in what makes you believe that they are not venomous?


Their venom gland is described to only develop to an incipient state, do you know if this means that it does not produce venom? I would imagine that the presence of venom rather than just the gland would dictate whether an animal was venomous or not.


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

Yes if it has a gland that produces venom I agree that it would have to be venomous but just because it has a venom gland doesn't mean it still produces venom. .now I m not saying it doesn't produce venom but saying what I have tead lead me to believe it doesn't I thought there would be more information about stuff like this since they are so common as pets now-a-days


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## BrownHash (Jan 4, 2014)

jedi_339 said:


> Where do you stop? Venom glands are generally modified salivary glands, therefore shouldn't all land snakes have some gland to aid with digestion whether it be venom or saliva.
> 
> But if most venoms are proteins I secrete a protein from glands in my mouth.
> 
> Does that make me venomous to potatoes and other starchy foods?



I differentiate venom from saliva by venom containing proteins, peptides and enzymes that interfere with specific chemicals in the victim, affecting the way cells and organs function. I see saliva as only aiding the the break down and digestion of cells.

As you've pointed out, it could be argued that the effect of ptyalin in saliva on potatoes and starchy foods is similar to that of venom, but I have yet to hear of any potatoes supporting this point of view, and until they do I feel it is moot.


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## Rlpreston (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> Yes if it has a gland that produces venom I agree that it would have to be venomous but just because it has a venom gland doesn't mean it still produces venom. .now I m not saying it doesn't produce venom but saying what I have tead lead me to believe it doesn't I thought there would be more information about stuff like this since they are so common as pets now-a-days



There's something to be said here for differentiating vestigial 'venom' glands from developed glands. 

In a Beardy it is suggested that there is a rudimentary (under developed) gland present, if I am understanding so far? 


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

Rlpreston said:


> There's something to be said here for differentiating vestigial 'venom' glands from developed glands.
> 
> In a Beardy it is suggested that there is a rudimentary (under developed) gland present, if I am understanding so far?
> 
> ...



Well I m probably not the best person to be asking as I was only asking myself but yes I have read that they have glands that no longer get used to produce venom I have also read a page or two that say they still have venom beinh made but lack a way to effectively inject it and that it is the venom that give of a throbing pain if you let a breaded dragon bite you . .the information I choose to believe is that they no longer produce venom I only choose to believe this because the site I read it on I deem more reliable then where I read the other but that is why I bought it up out of the hope someone would know the correct information and point me to the source


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## Radar (Jan 6, 2014)

Rlpreston said:


> It is technically correct, just like it is technically correct that the earth is not flat. What's the use in dumbing things down for people? Better to teach them the reality of the situation than hide the facts so as not to scare them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



I'm going to have a hard time explaining why people need things dumbed down without getting into a religious or political argument, so I'll just agree with you.


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## Shotta (Jan 6, 2014)

gtps aren't venomous, and i was told gts have a mild venom


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## NicG (Jan 14, 2014)

Rlpreston said:


> It is technically correct, just like it is technically correct that the earth is not flat. What's the use in dumbing things down for people? Better to teach them the reality of the situation than hide the facts so as not to scare them.



Two reasons:

1) Despite the fact that I typically believe in education over prohibition and ... well, anything really. In this case you are likely to be dealing with an irrational fear based on a person's upbringing. And it's not only them, it's everyone that they're likely to (mis)inform with incomplete facts. The most likely outcome is that you are providing snake-haters with a reason to kill them.

2) Despite all my research in the past few years - and I've done quite a lot - I haven't been able to find anyone (or even a story about someone's mate!) that has had even the slightest reaction to a CTS bite.


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## ryanbichel (Mar 7, 2014)

green tree snakes a well as brown tree snakes are mildly venomous. I was also in disbelief of this fact when I read my field guide. I've now researched a lot and observed a fair bit and The fact is both species of tree snakes have venom, but this venom is harmless to humans. Will post pics of the field guide soon. As soon as I get time.


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## PythonLegs (Mar 7, 2014)

I've never seen anything have any reaction of any kind to a cts bite thats anymore pronounced than a reaction to being bitten by something else.
but hey, first hand experience and logic means nothing in the face of long winded scientific jibba jabba..


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