# Changing GTP



## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

This is Green Lotus. She is 10mths old. I think she looks beautiful as is and would be thrilled if she didn't change anymore!


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## sevrum (Aug 16, 2006)

that is truly stunning,are you in australia?


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Yup


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## Hickson (Aug 16, 2006)

Is that the Mite-infested morph (or whatever it's called)?



Hix


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Cheeky Hix! The term is "mite phase", not "mite-infested"!

Not sure. Someone with a hatchy from the same clutch reported that the black dots on their's faded, but someone ELSE with yet another hatchy from the same clutch sent me some pics of their's, and the dots seem to have stayed.


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## CodeRed (Aug 16, 2006)

Good to see that the some of the American GTP morphs in Oz. The smugglers must be working overtime


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh My God... you're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding?


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## waruikazi (Aug 16, 2006)

Whoooooaaaaa! that is wild!!! are they from a line that was imported during the amnesty or are they a morph of the aussie locale?


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## MDPython (Aug 16, 2006)

Beautiful snake i would imagine you are very proud!!!!! :mrgreen: 

Cheers for the pics........Luv GTPs.......... :mrgreen:


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

Very Nice! gotta love'em, GTP's!


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## Pike01 (Aug 16, 2006)

Sorry but that is one ugly GTP . Dont like it, hope it improves for ya.


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## Kingii (Aug 16, 2006)

Interesting...

What age was it sexed?

What does she weigh?

Cheers


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## Kingii (Aug 16, 2006)

Also, who's line did it originate from???


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## MannyM (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Changing GTP*



pike1 said:


> Sorry but that is one ugly GTP . Dont like it, hope it improves for ya.



Hear hear


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I think she looks great and jealousy won't make me say otherwise. A Mitey Morph, that's what she is!!


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## Pike01 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Wrasse,jealousy didn't make me say otherwise, dont know what your implying.Different people, different opinions.Now if that was a yakka skink i would definately be jealous.


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

sorry lily, but im with pike on this one, its a bit of a duckling atm imo. But hopefully it will improve and turn out hot for ya.


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Pike1, I wasn't saying that jealousy made you or anyone else in this thread say anything other than what you thought. 
I am flattered that you think what you thought about this little snake made an impact on me, but I assure you, my comment was made purely and simply on what I myself was thinking, no one elses opinions were involved.


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## Deano (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Hix said:


> Is that the Mite-infested morph (or whatever it's called)?
> 
> 
> 
> Hix




LOL Hix, I have to agree with Pike1 and TrueBlue, sorry to say and not being nasty to you but that is one ugly snake…. but thanks for sharing.


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2006)

*re Changing*

Poor snake has been hit with the ugly stik but its a GTP and it looks healthy


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## rexs1 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: re Changing*

thats from roy pails right??????????

nick


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## Glimmerman (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Does anyone have any nappy wipes, I think it has dust on it :wink: 

Not my cup of tea, I like the solid green with white dorsal rosettes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as long as you like it then good on you.


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## rexs1 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

i have seen a few of last seasons hatchys that came from pailsy like that


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

glimmerman, you mean like this one. :wink:


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

another view.


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## tan (Aug 16, 2006)

rob is that one of yours??


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## BeardyBen (Aug 16, 2006)

im sure with age lily your GTP python will grow into a beautiful swan, no matter what it looks like


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

tan, yes its one of mine.


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## tan (Aug 16, 2006)

an absolute stunner!!!!!!! I would sooo looove one or two of them. Can i ask a question tb,??? and if you don't want to answer on forum you can pm me if you prefer, when you breed these gtps do you have lots of interest in the hatchies and sell them quickly or does the price of them limit them to be sold gradually, or do you just take orders? I have always wondered this due to their price.


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## tan (Aug 16, 2006)

green willow, i like your snake as i love pretty much any snake and i think the different ones always catch my attention, she's beaut!  however, i think when  i purchase a pair of these babies i would hope they would look like that of rob's!


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

tan, always lots of interest with greens, they tend to go like hot cakes.
I always work on the first in first serve theroy as when ever i have previously taken orders for animals ive found that more often than not most people cant wait and when the time comes have used their money on something else, ie other herps, holiday etc.

This girl is on pre-lay shed as we speak.


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## jimmyd (Aug 16, 2006)

Beaut snakes willlow and Trueblue, would love to see more pictures as time goes by.

jim.


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## tan (Aug 16, 2006)

tb she is stunning and a pair of these may not be out of the question for me eventually, however, i would like to build up my collection and gain full confidence before making this investment, when the time comes i will come to you!!


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## JEZ (Aug 16, 2006)

tan said:


> tb she is stunning and a pair of these may not be out of the question for me eventually, however, i would like to build up my collection and gain full confidence before making this investment, when the time comes i will come to you!!



I'm of the exact same opinion Tan. 8) They're absolutely stunning and when the time comes for me to add those to my collection too I will also be coming to you Rob. 

Nice pic too Greenwillow. It is a GTP after all!!


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## tempest (Aug 16, 2006)

Lily, I think she's gorgeous, very interesting indeed  .... and TB, yours are absolute stunners *drools*


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## URS (Aug 16, 2006)

Trueblue, Gee that must be a good line of GTP's you have there, they look great.

PS Lily am am not sure what line yours would have come from but at this stage of the colour change they all ways look a bit washed out and I can just about garantee you that with in a couple more months it will look like a diffent python and I am sure if you post an other picture of it then no one will think its the same GTP.

Regards URS


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Lily and many others think it is already hot so it only has to improve for people like you that don't like it. 



TrueBlue said:


> But hopefully it will improve and turn out hot for ya.


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## Glimmerman (Aug 16, 2006)

:shock: TB - Yes mate that's the S***. Now THAT is a GTP I would spend my money on.


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

I think she is divine! She is a great handler and a keen eater. She comes from Darren Boswell. 

I also have bloodlines from URS, Adrian Hemens, Stuart Barnes, a breeder in Melbourne and breeder in Wagga Wagga (not sure if they wish to be named). Included in this is a pair which look just like yours, TB. Personally I don't like the bright and green white though. I think they look like a tube of toothpaste and despite what was paid for them, when I saw the toothpaste pair I was disappointed.

I look forward to seeing how Green Lotus develops, but she has been this particular colour combination for some time now. (She is not my URS girl, by the way). Thanks for the lovely comments from some of you. And I can completely understand not everyone appreciating her, or chondros in general. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Tim/URS, the girl from you is developing very nicely! I will try to get some pics of her for you. Her name is Aurora and she is a dear little thing.

Golly, seeing as the toothpaste chondros are so popular I'm glad i decided to get them after all!


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

i dont dis like it, it could well turn out hot, some do some dont, as tim has said they all go thru a fugly stage when they change and after a few sheds will look like a completely different animal.

Yes both those animals are from your line tim. :wink:


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Damn! Does that mean Aurora is going to be a toothpaste girl?


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## Glimmerman (Aug 16, 2006)

GreenWIllow: You will have to change her name to "Colgate" :lol: 8)


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

Sadly GreenWillow, it could mean just that I guess, she too may end up common GTP. *sigh*


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Hey Wrasse, if I stop feeding Green Lotus do you think she'll remain as she is now? 

If Aurora goes "colgatey" I would be willing to negotiate a swap for a shingleback, if The Dad will let me!


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

GreenWillow said:


> Hey Wrasse, if I stop feeding Green Lotus do you think she'll remain as she is now?



You might need a little formalin and varnish to pull that off indefinately.


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## olivehydra (Aug 16, 2006)

GreenWillow said:


> If Aurora goes "colgatey" I would be willing to negotiate a swap for a shingleback, if The Dad will let me!



You said she would be loved :cry:


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

Stunning Rob, gorgeous animals. AS USUAL of course!

There are a lot of different variations of the Greens out there already, have seen a few similar to Lily's now, each to there own, I definately prefer solid green though like GM, but still its GTP and we all want one!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Sorry. Sorry sorry sorry... she is! Very much so! But, dude... a shingleback! 

By the way, she shed a week ago and it made a HUGE difference to the amount of green on her. You wouldn't recognise her now!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Changing GTP*



CodeRed said:


> Good to see that the some of the American GTP morphs in Oz. The smugglers must be working overtime



Oi Boa... did you see this??? I've got an exotic... a Yankee GTP!!!


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Yes I'm not quite sure how a common colour change has become an American morph :lol:


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## CodeRed (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



boa said:


> Yes I'm not quite sure how a common colour change has become an American morph :lol:



Its my understanding that the Aussie ones dont go through the "mite" phase. They simply loose yellow and replace it with green. I'll happily be corrected on this point, but Id prefer to know that some GTP morphs are around.


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

You are correct Codered from my understanding too, but there are different locales in Australia, there is the Australian Form (of which there are buggerall left in captivity) Tim having 1 of those, Aru, Merauke, and Biak all southern types. Which have different colours and end results, not sure how many of those types are here but at least a couple.


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

My point is that they aren't an American morph, it is just a normal colour change.


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## CodeRed (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



boa said:


> My point is that they aren't an American morph, it is just a normal colour change.



So from what you have seen or heard, do aussie GTPs go through this mite phase then?


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I didn't think Aussies did mite phase either but I long ago drew the conclusion that what chondros there were in Australia were such a blend of the various types that anything could happen during/after a change. Plus, did anyone say "red baby"? 

Like you, CodeRed, my interest is with the morphs.  (But not those yukky mustard ones!)


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

CodeRed, I have no idea if Australian GTP's go through that stage, apparently not by the sounds of it. 
I'm just not sure why it became an issue of Australian GTP's as opposed to any other ?


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## CodeRed (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Well I am glad that there are some colour varieties around. Not everyone likes the morphs, but I think they look great, much nicer than the common greens.


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## CodeRed (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



boa said:


> CodeRed, I have no idea if Australian GTP's go through that stage, apparently not by the sounds of it.
> I'm just not sure why it became an issue of Australian GTP's as opposed to any other ?



Boa, its not an issue for me. In fact I was hoping to find some of these varieties  My initial statement was supposed to be funny .. you know smugglers getting overtime and all. Next time I'll use lot and lots of smiles


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## Nome (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



GreenWillow said:


> I didn't think Aussies did mite phase either but I long ago drew the conclusion that what chondros there were in Australia were such a blend of the various types that anything could happen during/after a change. Plus, did anyone say "red baby"?
> 
> Like you, CodeRed, my interest is with the morphs.  (But not those yukky mustard ones!)



Personally Lilly, if it turns out kind of calico, I think you scored! There's not many of them in Australia, they are the ones that held their price overseas too.

Please keep posting up pics of the colour change, will be very interested to see how it turns out. Wonder if those scales will remain dark green over a lighter green?

And you're right, there's so much of blend in greens in Australia, some claim to have the real pure thing, but the water's have definately been muddied with most of them.


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

My comment wasn't in relation to the smugglers but the fact that it was referred to as an American morph when in fact it is a natural colour change. 

[Codered]Boa, its not an issue for me. In fact I was hoping to find some of these varieties  My initial statement was supposed to be funny .. you know smugglers getting overtime and all. Next time I'll use lot and lots of smiles [/quote]


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Nome said:


> but the water's have definately been muddied with most of them.



I have Chondro in my pure perfect Water Pythons ???

:shock: :cry:


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## Nome (Aug 16, 2006)

lol, I'm too used to typing about snakes obviously :roll: :wink:


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## wokka (Aug 16, 2006)

A long time ago all Chondros were brother and sister living in the same land. Over time the earth seperated and diferent islands were formed including Australia with a few of the Brother and sister Chondros on each island. They continued to breed but only within each island population as and so each island population developed particular locality characteristics.
Isn't it likely that given enough ofspring there would be the odd throw back. Whilst Aru "type" Chondros are generally the same the odd throwback may turn up which has an appearance closer to another island type. 
Even after the islands split it is likely that animals travelled between islands as driftwood of by aborigine. Locality discriptions are general and there will always be exceptions to the norm. If you like exceptions they are retained and a new color morph is bred If not all the purists out their would of course euthanase the freek.


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Now now people. No more discussion or debate. It's time to get back to doing what we do best...

give us a t...T

give us a r... R

give us a u... U

give us a e... E

give us a b... B ..........................etc!


:wink: :lol:


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## Kersten (Aug 16, 2006)

For what it's worth (and we all know it wont be considered worth much :wink: ) I think she's gorgeous Lily. But then I'm one of those freaks who thinks "boring old Coastal Carpets" are beautiful so what do I know about what's attractive in a snake of any description?


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

Oops  Sorry if I sounded a bit "sour grapish" for a moment there, TB. I was having a dig at all your little followers! I read a rule recently that says we musn't like a snake unless you've bred it. Methinks they didn't take it for the joke that it was :roll: 

If Green Lotus turns out to be a "toothpaste chondro" I'll come up north in my bikini and you can help me drown my sorrows with a few beers! :wink:


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## soulweaver (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



> This is Green Lotus. She is 10mths old. I think she looks beautiful as is and would be thrilled if she didn't change anymore!




Would be worth a lot more if it didn't change anymore then this


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Not to Trueblue! He wants it to be a colgater so that he gets to drink with me in a bikini! Right TB?


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

dam right, youve got to bring your expensive frilly lace knickers too.


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Naturally! I'd forgotten about those for a moment!


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## soulweaver (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

there for TB!!


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

any way i dont have any followers.??? thats an insult to them, they just appreciate healthy happy snakes that hate thermostats.


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

And the possibility of hybridising eh TB? I think you do have followers tho, even if you haven't noticed them yourself... or maybe they're just hangers on???

J.


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## mitchyj (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

yuk not a fan of it sorry


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



mitchyj said:


> yuk not a fan of it sorry


 Yeh mitchy its like ordering a several thousand dollar coral trout and getting served up a mullet,it looks like a weed with gravel rash,the one on your avatar is nice.


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## MrSpike (Aug 16, 2006)

> yuk not a fan of it sorry



See followers...






Joking


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## TrueBlue (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

i dont think its like that at all, some people agree with my methods but a lot dont, i think thats what it more boils down too. alot of people cant get their head around not using a thermostat because its the said way, but IMO its a bad way, as i can set up a large collection with out any thermostats and with no chance of cooking any thing and only using 2 bulbs to heat 4-7 tanks,( not just here but down south as well).
Some people can see the reasoning in this and most, since using it, would never go back to the said way.
I keep my animals different to what most people do and it works for me, and like ive said some agree with it some dont.


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I am located in Sydney and I have been using TrueBlues methods of heating my bhps/olives/jungles for a while now and as of this weekend everything else is going to be kept the same way, I have had enormous success with this method and my bhps are doing so well I have eggs on the way which is a sure sign of them being healthy and happy.


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## Nagraj (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



SNKMST said:


> ... I have eggs on the way which is a sure sign of them being healthy and happy.




Reproduction is a fundamental imperative which can occur even during advanced ill health.

I am not in any way suggesting your animals are not well kept.


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2006)

*re Changing*

How many breeders get on aussie pythons giving out imfo like True blue,the majority stay away from the forums because they think thheir poo dont stink,True blues poo stinks :lol:


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 16, 2006)

:lol:


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Nagraj said:


> SNKMST said:
> 
> 
> > ... I have eggs on the way which is a sure sign of them being healthy and happy.
> ...


 Codswollup,if they are in health they nearly always dont breed in my experience


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Nagraj: "Reproduction is a fundamental imperative which can occur even during advanced ill health."

You are 100% correct with regards to non captive animals. In captivity if an animal is not happy or healthy within its surroundings they will almost always fail to reproduce.


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## salebrosus (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Top animal Lily!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see more pics down the track,

Simone.


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Pythoninfinite said:


> I think you do have followers tho, even if you haven't noticed them yourself... or maybe they're just hangers on???
> 
> J.



Like little dags on a sheeps bum ?


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



SNKMST said:


> Nagraj: "Reproduction is a fundamental imperative which can occur even during advanced ill health."
> 
> You are 100% correct with regards to non captive animals. In captivity if an animal is not happy or healthy within its surroundings they will almost always fail to reproduce.


 Ide say its the same in the wild from what ive seen SNKMST,mostly wild snakes and lizards that are sickly are underweight it prevents the succsesful production of live young or eggs.Ive found female diamonds that are underweight with slugs,although they are mated and there was a male following they havent got health and condition to produce enough yolk from reserves of fat.


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Wrasse said:


> Pythoninfinite said:
> 
> 
> > I think you do have followers tho, even if you haven't noticed them yourself... or maybe they're just hangers on???
> ...



It is more being open to different methods of keeping and trying these different methods, which I have. I have found that not only do Robs methods work very well but they save on power and setup costs when it comes to the expensive things like thermostats.


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## junglemad (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

i liked your little gtp as soon as i saw it and i reckon it would look excellent if it grew to maturity looking just like that fruit tingle pattern.
that gtp will probably turn green all over


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## junglemad (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



TrueBlue said:


> any way i dont have any followers.??? thats an insult to them, they just appreciate healthy happy snakes that hate thermostats.



healthy happy hate thermostats...the snakes i got from you are healthy.
one out of three


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

i think it will turn in to a beautiful green colgatey color and i will be wait there when this happens with a shingleback  :lol:


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

And that's the shame of it, Junglemad. I adore her little violet patches! 

She's a bit too big to do it now, but when she was a tad smaller she used to climb up onto my glasses while I watched tv or read a book and fall asleep there, drapped over the lens and arm like a divine weed!


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



zulu said:


> Ide say its the same in the wild from what ive seen SNKMST,mostly wild snakes and lizards that are sickly are underweight it prevents the succsesful production of live young or eggs.Ive found female diamonds that are underweight with slugs,although they are mated and there was a male following they havent got health and condition to produce enough yolk from reserves of fat.



zulu: You are correct in saying that most will not breed in the wild also if ill or underweight as PilbaraPythons knows to well, as he seen last season with very little young being produced in the wild due to a bad season weather wise hence to food around for the snakes.

My comment was directed at "Reproduction is a fundamental imperative" with breeding being imperative for the continued life of the species. Most often in the wild the ill/severely underweight won't survive also due to them being easy targets for predators.


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## SNKMST (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

GreenWillow: I think you should be hoping for more black, personally I dont mind her at all more black would mean more demand.


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## Nome (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



GreenWillow said:


> And that's the shame of it, Junglemad. I adore her little violet patches!
> 
> She's a bit too big to do it now, but when she was a tad smaller she used to climb up onto my glasses while I watched tv or read a book and fall asleep there, drapped over the lens and arm like a divine weed!



Really? That's crazy! If I had any GTPs I wouldn't touch them. I thought it can cause health problems if they are handled as young? Obviously didn't hurt yours though.
A $7000 snake is worth a scary amount of money to me to risk it lol


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Brett is that really you? Your not that intelligent in person.. lol, kidding mate.

I have heard the same though, that the morph GTP's will be worth more in the future, time will tell I guess.


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## Wrasse (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I am in a gardening mood. I think I shall plant poppy's. Big tall ones that GTP's can play in amongst. Wouldn't that look pretty. 

I hope no-one has a scythe!!


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

if i had a GTP then i would most definatly handel it i don't see the difrence (just more expensive)


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Brett, I do not see her in terms of dollars. She is worth as much to me as my diamonds, my Children's, my womas... etc. If she had one eye missing, half her tail gone and a big ugly scar on her body as well as the gravel rash and the mullet features, I would love and appreciate her just as much as I do now. Her value to me is not a commercial value. She enriches my life in a much more fundamental and important way, as do all my pythons.

It has surprised and disappointed me to witness just how much people have felt the need to tell me how unattractive my snake is and how much they hate her. Would they have made similar comments to someone showing a pic of their darling Stimson, or their favourite coastal carpet? Would they have made similar comments if she did not have the market value which she has? 

Naomi, your's is the reaction most people have when they find out that I handle my GTPs, and I completely understand your alarm as it is true that they ARE fragile as younguns. But it's not like I swing them around my head by their tails, or drag them off their perches in order to hold them. I have the encouragement and endorsement of such respected herp world notaries as Gavin Bedford and Dr Mark Simpson, who have both been witness to the health and happiness of my gtps.


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Well said Lily. You are one of the lucky ones to be in the position to make that decision. As you say



> it is true that they ARE fragile as younguns. But it's not like I swing them around my head by their tails, or drag them off their perches in order to hold them.



Any more pics of the others by the way? Love to see em :wink:


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## CHONDROS (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

this is a brother to lotus


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Was just about to ask that exact thing, any pics of the others??? would love to see them!


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

oopps didn't see that he is also very nice as is Lotus, there very diferent looking imo diferent is good!


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Wow love the green... really stunning.


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Hey Chondros! He is superb! The green and violet is such an appealing combination! I still have another brother and sister (Seahorse and Gentle Fern) yet to change. All they've done so far is get lots of reddish spots, as if they are starting to rust from the dampness and humidity! :lol: 

Snow and Pugsly, I will certainly take pics of my others to show you, probably not tonight though. They are all so different, and thats what I like!


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## peterjohnson64 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Lily, obviously yours will lose its yellow and look like chondro's chondro. Your's is just taking a shed or two longer to lose it's yellow colour.

As for handling, that seems to be the major difference between "the complete chondro" and "the more complete chondro". Maxwell is now saying that chondros can be handled as pets.

I have now read two books, I've even bought a black cage to house one in. Just gotta wait I guess


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



> All they've done so far is get lots of reddish spots



Very interesting the hatchy I know of which is from that clutch also is getting those. Interesting to see how they turn out, the colour change phase is fascinating, from as little as two weeks can completely change colour. Amazing really.


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Yeah That is a stunner CHONDROS looks like it getting a kinda blue fhase happening??? 
Can't wait for those photos!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Yellow babies turn red!!!!


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

if i ever had one i wouldn't want it to change! i love the yellow with either blue violet or red markings there beautiful!


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## peterjohnson64 (Aug 16, 2006)

didnt work here pugs?????


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## Snow1369 (Aug 16, 2006)

i just copied the link into the top of my browser they look good! ther 3rd photo is fantastic! love the eyes


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

Try again, here is an 18 month old female.. Stunning isnt the word.


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2006)

Couple more, don't see many pics of these so Ill spoil you all lol. Well if Rob had a camera it would help!!


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Great little critters Lily - I can't believe the need to be a bit nasty which seems evident in some of the responses on this thread. I know that NONE of those who said unpleasant things about it would knock it back if it was offered to them. There are obviously lots of people with scythes outside the fence around the poppy field, waiting for a chance to get in and do some damage. Envy is an unpleasant sentiment at the best of times.

Chondro threads seem to elicit a frenzy of guff, opinion and ignorance on this site for some reason, whereas even the plainest looking coastals get accolades. I like them all, and after all, it's not a contest... is it?

Jamie.


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## zulu (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



Pythoninfinite said:


> Great little critters Lily - I can't believe the need to be a bit nasty which seems evident in some of the responses on this thread. I know that NONE of those who said unpleasant things about it would knock it back if it was offered to them. There are obviously lots of people with scythes outside the fence around the poppy field, waiting for a chance to get in and do some damage. Envy is an unpleasant sentiment at the best of times.
> 
> Chondro threads seem to elicit a frenzy of guff, opinion and ignorance on this site for some reason, whereas even the plainest looking coastals get accolades. I like them all, and after all, it's not a contest... is it?
> 
> Jamie.


 Thats all crap if somethings ugly its ugly,if it looked good ide say so,with gtps there is very good colors and very ordinary


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## SNKMST (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



pugsly said:


> Brett is that really you? Your not that intelligent in person.. lol, kidding mate.



Thanks Mate lol

GreenWillow: I wasn't suggesting that it would be good for financial gain, but for the people here that say they don’t like this particular GTP, in the future these will be the ones that standout as being different/sought after.


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

You're being very aggressive this morning Zulu - all you have to say is that it doesn't appeal to YOU... remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't believe any snake is "ugly" - some are just less appealing to me than others. I don't understand the appeal of black headed pythons at all, but I don't come on here and say they look like crap when people proudly post their photos. Who really cares what I (or you for that matter) think looks good? I think your avatar is one of the least pleasant I've seen here, but that's of no consequence to anyone here, so I've not raised the issue earlier than this.

Why the need to be so defensive?

Jamie.


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## Retic (Aug 17, 2006)

I agree, what benefit is there to coming onto a forum and bagging someones animal ? My feeling is if you don't like someones animals either just keep it to yourself or if you really feel the need to be negative then say it's not to your liking. I can see no reason at all to come on and say "YUK".


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



SNKMST said:


> pugsly said:
> 
> 
> > Brett is that really you? Your not that intelligent in person.. lol, kidding mate.
> ...



I see what you mean. Thanks mate. And the point you make is true, it's things that are a bit different which tend to have more worth due to their exclusivity.

Pugsly, that little beastie is a beauty!  I can never get enough of admiring these little green jewels!


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

LOL.....why do GTP threads always go OTT ??? Must be all the excitement !



Snow1369 said:


> if i had a GTP then i would most definatly handel it i don't see the difrence (just more expensive)


It’s your snake you can handle it if you want ! Personally I’ve never come across a single GTP that LIKED being handled !! 

I think it’s a lovely looking GTP Lilly, lets se more pics as the change progresses 

Whos got sharp eyes ?


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

emerald tree boa.


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

suriman form.


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

awww true.....you coulda given the kids a chance !!! :roll: :wink:


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## Retic (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I was wondering if it was a trick question, they are similar but still pretty different.


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## Retic (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Or Surinam even :wink: 



TrueBlue said:


> suriman form.


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

i was going to send the winner a cookie too !! :roll:

posted the pic to see the replies boa, it's just that some people only see green &amp; immediately think GTP !


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

sorry boa, you know i cant spell.

moreliaman,- i like chocotate chip ones.


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## pugsly (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Pretty easy to spot the difference in pattern and especially the head shape, but no idea what form it was, Rob's a machine, didn't even have a bikini on too!


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## Retic (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I think the majority would see that snake as a GTP, especially from ther side like that. Even from my comfy armchair I knew what it was though :lol: 



Moreliaman said:


> posted the pic to see the replies boa, it's just that some people only see green &amp; immediately think GTP !


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

Bikinis on boas... hehehe! :lol: Their mouths look very different from gtp mouths


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

sorry moreliaman, but you asked if anyone could tell, and i just love emeralds, if i could legally keep exotics that is what i would keep.

Pugsly,- i may well be sitting here in my hot pink bikini. :lol: (inserts image into everyones brain).


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

FINE !! next time i'll post a harder pic !! (runs off in a huff!)

(ill take a few more pics when i have my camera back ....just for you true ! :wink: but i want pics of your stunning herps (preferably without pink bikini's) in exchange!)


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



> Pugsly,- i may well be sitting here in my hot pink bikini. (inserts image into everyones brain).


Eww


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## pugsly (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*



> Pugsly,- i may well be sitting here in my hot pink bikini. (inserts image into everyones brain).



PMSL, I bet you are too.. Im guessing 36 C??


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## SNKMST (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

hahah being a bit generous there Steve aren’t you mate lol


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## zulu (Aug 17, 2006)

*re Changing*



boa said:


> I agree, what benefit is there to coming onto a forum and bagging someones animal ? My feeling is if you don't like someones animals either just keep it to yourself or if you really feel the need to be negative then say it's not to your liking. I can see no reason at all to come on and say "YUK".


 When pike said it looked a bit rough around the gills he got bagged for stating the obvious,nice snake that,is boring,and you dont get any bites :wink: :lol:


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: re Changing*



zulu said:


> How many breeders get on aussie pythons giving out imfo like True blue,the majority stay away from the forums because they think thheir poo dont stink,True blues poo stinks :lol:



Im sure most of your experinced herpers sit here watching the bickering &amp; then think "whats the point" to offer advice (and then if they do they get slated unless they are Mr/Mrs/Miss sunshinesouttabutthole)


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: re Changing*

moreliaman, but they look much better when im in my bikini. :wink:


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: re Changing*

:shock:


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## dynea (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

WOW...


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

is that youre fav word ? 

[quotes="dynea"]WOW...that look great.[/quote]


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## waruikazi (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

My fav word is awesome.


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## Moreliaman (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

I remember a thread about a reptile dealer being locked over various accusations that were being made , it was unfair because the shop employee's/owner wasnt here to defend themselves....perhaps the same level of respect should be made for private individuals !


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## zulu (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: re Changing*



TrueBlue said:


> moreliaman, but they look much better when im in my bikini. :wink:


 mmmm have to send you a pic of my gorilla in her G string TB,your sik enough to appreciate her :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## salebrosus (Aug 17, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: re Changing*

I SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, LOVELY LITTLE SNAKE YOU HAVE LILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

JUST THOUGHT I'D REMIND EVERYONE THAT THIS THREAD STARTED FOR PEOPLE TO ADMIRE A GTP, IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW IT LOOKS THEN WHY CAN'T PEOPLE KEEP QUIET..... THERE ARE PLENTY OF ANIMALS THAT HAVE BEEN SHOWN THAT I HAVENT FOUND APPEALING BUT I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T GOTTEN ON THEIR AND BAGGED THE CHRIST OUT OF IT. OBVIOUSLY LILY LOVES HER LITTLE SNAKE AND SO LILY, CONGRATS BUDDY. 

It just really narks me having people bagging out other people's animals.

Simone.


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## Nome (Aug 17, 2006)

Lilly in case you misunderstood, I never was implying you did the wrong thing by handling your hatchling- I was surprised as I had never heard of it before, and was under the impression it can encourage prolapse. As I said, it obviously didn't hurt yours. And I don't own a GTP, I was only commenting on what I have read, obviously you know more than I do about them.

The more expensive and sought after the animal, the easier they become to bag out, same thing happens with the albinos.

I think Lilly you'll find that many herpers wish to get to the 'holy grail' gtp, and most of us will never be able to due to their price, so I think some negativity you might encounter is to do with that, and in the relatively short time you've been in the hobby you've managed to reach that goal. Alot of people that do own them as well have made it there eventually after years of keeping and breeding, and here you are now, your first ones and you've got something really unusual and something that will be sort after, and something very different to what most of them have. So I reckon a few are turning green :wink: I'm not commenting on anyone in particular as 10 pages is too much to read and I'm not sure who does and doens't like it.

Like I said before, I reckon you scored!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

> Lilly in case you misunderstood, I never was implying you did the wrong thing by handling your hatchling- I was surprised as I had never heard of it before, and was under the impression it can encourage prolapse. As I said, it obviously didn't hurt yours. And I don't own a GTP, I was only commenting on what I have read, obviously you know more than I do about them.



What you said was perfectly reasonable and understandable, and also perfectly normal.  It's what most people say! And thankyou also for your kind words. There seems to be such a dichotomy among herpers. Most of you are generous, friendly and kind! 

GTPs ARE fragile when young and they DO have to be handled carefully. However they can indeed be handled if you are gentle and realise that they are not like a robust little olive hatchling or similar. I let it be known that I handle mine to try to break down the misconception that they can't be touched. 

Initially I rest my hand beside them on their perch. Then when they are used to me I move my hand right up beside them and let it touch them. They soon become accustomed to this, and will eventually climb onto my hand when I put it into their tub. This is the only way I handled them until they were a bit bigger.

My perches are able to be lifted out of the individual tubs or enclosures. These days I simply lift the perch out and sit it with me. The snake again climbs off it's perch and onto me when it is ready (then onto my glasses or around my neck for a nap. The lazy things will sleep anywhere!)


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

here you go lily, tracked a pic down of one of mine in its fugly stage, it looks way uglier than yours but still turned out ok. :wink:


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## tan (Aug 17, 2006)

omg how cute is that!!!


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

TrueBlue, you may have some lovely snakes, but you are a cruel and heartless man to say such things!  Even as is, I think that snake is beautiful! Look at that sweet little head, and those lovely golden eyes!


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## TrueBlue (Aug 17, 2006)

looks like a bird poo-ed on it i recon.


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## junglemad (Aug 17, 2006)

i wouldn't assume that because someone joined this site last week they are a newbie to keeping snakes. she keeps gtp's for goodness sake!
you can go on posting pics of ordinary snakes on here and i won't comment on how ordinary they are or if a jungle looks like a coastal or a diamond cross.
there is no way that gtp of Willow's is ugly or ordinary and if she wants to play with her snake and love it instead of treating it as an untouchable investment then that is her perogative


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## Kersten (Aug 17, 2006)

Junglemad....Green Willow is Lily. Reptililian. And you're absolutely right.


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## fishead (Aug 17, 2006)

I reckon she's real pretty Lil.
What's with the name change mate?


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

Time to consolidate all the characters under one name. Business card says Green Willow Pythons, email addy is greenwillow, farm is called "Greenlees" (and features several very lovely willow trees along the creek. We should have a herping trip up there in summer. Lots of water dragons!), my middle name is Willow. "Reptililian" was the odd one out!


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## fishead (Aug 17, 2006)

Looks like it might take a while to shake off the Lilly tag hey.
Careful with the business name thing - might be a bit too business like in the eyes of the ever hungry little Johnny and his ATO thugs. Would suck to have to pay him one eleventh of everything when those green beauties start procreating.


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

The "Lily" tag is ok, as my first name is ... Lily!

I put a thread up in chit chat to let people know about my name change... Sorry to those who didn't realise who GreenWillow is. Soulweaver will change my star status to mod soon, then there'll be no confusion.

The business card is just because I can't go anywhere without people finding out I breed pythons and asking for my number. This just makes it easier than finding pen/paper all the time!

Junglemad, didn't you recognise the syntax???


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## junglemad (Aug 17, 2006)

i was au fait with the semantic and grapho-phonic cues but failed to pick up on the syntactic


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

I have been considering a sig featuring one of my favourite poets, W.H Auden, but people might wonder exactly what/who is underneath the abject Willow!


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## junglemad (Aug 17, 2006)

fold up your map of desolation Lil


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## GreenWillow (Aug 17, 2006)

Can't  ... dark and dull is my distraction


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## zulu (Aug 18, 2006)

*re Changing*



TrueBlue said:


> here you go lily, tracked a pic down of one of mine in its fugly stage, it looks way uglier than yours but still turned out ok. :wink:


 Definately hit with the ugly stik that poor little bugger,did you have it put down


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 18, 2006)

*RE: re Changing*

Hey Lily - lovely snake as I've said before. But about those willows along the creek on the farm... hmmm...

Jamie.


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## andrew_555 (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Changing GTP*

beautiful snake, i would love one if i could afford it!


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