# Which is the most arboreal of the carpets?



## Primo (Nov 9, 2014)

Sadly, most of the US forums are dead. I think Facebook has taken the life of so many great conversation areas that are specific to some type of hobby, but it appears this forum is still going fairly strong, at least by comparison.

I think the best place to ask this question is here, because after all,,,,, you guys live with carpets and don't just keep and breed them. The actual observations of one of the most interesting pythons in my opinion, come from what you guys see in the wild.

After that little prelude, comes my question.

What typically is the most arboreal of the carpet python species, and I guess which species is the least of the group?

The research and text I've read seems to say ALL of the carpets are semi arboreal, which is why I'm wondering if one type is more so than another.

It's interesting, on another forum I visit, the owner of a green tree python and an jungle/jag carpet says his carpet if far more busy and the most interesting of the two, making it a better display snake.

Thanks ahead of time for your responses.


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## PythonLegs (Nov 9, 2014)

I dont cont green trees as carpets, so I'd say jungles and coastals are the most arboreal, generally. Pretty broad statement though..


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## Leasdraco (Nov 9, 2014)

Yes, all of the carpet species have about the same habits in my experience.


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## Dr-Zoidberg (Nov 9, 2014)

I agree that all morelia spilota sp. spend equal amounts of time both in trees and on the ground. In captivity I've found morelia bredli to spend more time than the spilota species, on the cage floor.


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## arevenant (Nov 9, 2014)

I'd agree with Bredli being less arboreal, but the ones I keep, are more terrestrial at day and arboreal about half the night, vs other Morelia about 50/50 all round...


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## Primo (Nov 10, 2014)

PythonLegs said:


> I dont cont green trees as carpets, so I'd say jungles and coastals are the most arboreal, generally. Pretty broad statement though..




Oh yes, I agree, I was not including green trees as part of the carpet group. The keeper was just stating he found his carpet more active and not shy about using all of the perches in the cage. I was slightly surprised as I thought green tree pythons were rather busy, but I don't keep them so I wouldn't really know. He felt his carpet was a better display animal.

Thanks for the insight on the actually carpet group. I find my coastal using a ground hide for part of the day, and then coming out for the evening into the morning on the perches.


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## PythonLegs (Nov 10, 2014)

I usually only see wild coastals on the ground during mating season, when the boys like to get all macho out in the open..usually I find them sleeping up in the shed rafters or hunting in the fruit trees at night.


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## Rayleen (Nov 10, 2014)

I have a coastal carpet and the only times she's on the enclosure floor is to eat and to drink. The rest of the time she's in the upper hides or climbing branches etc.


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## Alexbee (Nov 10, 2014)

Its funny how people saying Bredli are the least arboreal, Mine thinks its a Green Tree Python.. i have literally never seen him on the floor once..


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## Primo (Nov 10, 2014)

PythonLegs said:


> I usually only see wild coastals on the ground during mating season, when the boys like to get all macho out in the open..usually I find them sleeping up in the shed rafters or hunting in the fruit trees at night.




You guys got the life! I'm up in the northern part of the US and we don't have anything special up here in my opinion.

I had a chance to snatch up a super dwarf reticulated python, but I decided a coastal carpet would be a bester choice based on the semi arboreal habits, and chatter that they are wonderful display snakes.

I have not been disappointed!


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## Snowman (Nov 10, 2014)

Leasdraco said:


> Yes, all of the carpet species have about the same habits in my experience.



Nope. 
M.s .imbricata will and does inhabbit areas of no trees just thick shrubs about half a meter high. They nest and live in the rock crevices. Mostly a terrestrial carpet python in many areas.

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Alexbee said:


> Its funny how people saying Bredli are the least arboreal, Mine thinks its a Green Tree Python.. i have literally never seen him on the floor once..



They all climb in a confined space of an enclosure. The difference would be how many bredli do you see on the ground vs trees in the wild.


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 10, 2014)

^as Snowman said, some Carpets live in rock crevices, Murray Darlings (Inland Carpet) are known for this as well, which i would think is the reason for them being a silver-grey colour, as their pattern almost replicates the granite outcrops they're often found in. That being said they do still spend time up in the trees.

Also something no-ones pointed out yet is Diamonds an their habit of basking during the day, more than other carpets anyway.
So they would be up and down the trees and rocks regulating heat a lot more.


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## GBWhite (Nov 10, 2014)

Snowman said:


> Nope.
> M.s .imbricata will and does inhabbit areas of no trees just thick shrubs about half a meter high. They nest and live in the rock crevices. Mostly a terrestrial carpet python in many areas.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...



Hi Snow,

As I'm sure your aware habitat dictates arboreal behaviour. I'm of the understanding that SW Carpets (M sp imbricata) occupy a variety of habitats including coastal dunes and Jarra woodlands south of Perth, mallee scrub country consistent with granite outcrops and areas of exposed limestone (with sinkholes) around Esperance.

The word "arboreal" refers to an animal that has the evolutionary characteristics to live OR maneuver through trees. It doesn't mean that they are confined to living in trees. Chimps are arboreal primates and koalas are arboreal marsupials. For various reasons both spend a limited amount of time on the ground but have the evolutionary ability to live and maneuver through trees. 

Imbricata found in areas deficient of trees doesn't make them any less arboreal, evolution has provided them with this ability and they will never loose it. They still use their ability to climb to move up and down outcrops and sinkholes. It's just that the landscape and habitat in these locations does not provide the opportunity to exercise this trait in trees and the snakes have adapted as a survival technique. Relocate them to an environment with plenty of trees to climb and they will take to climbing them like a duck to water. 

The ones located in tree covered areas readily take advantage of the opportunity to explore, hunt and rest amongst the tree tops.

If your interested I've attached a link I found relating to research undertaken on M sp. imbricata by Ms Gillian Bryant around Perth and south to Bunberry that acknowledges their arboreal behaviour in these locations.

http://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/7666/2/02Whole.pdf 

George.


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## Snowman (Nov 10, 2014)

GBWhite said:


> Hi Snow,
> 
> As I'm sure your aware habitat dictates arboreal behaviour. I'm of the understanding that SW Carpets (M sp imbricata) occupy a variety of habitats including coastal dunes and Jarra woodlands south of Perth, mallee scrub country consistent with granite outcrops and areas of exposed limestone (with sinkholes) around Esperance.
> 
> ...



Think we all know what arboreal means hahaha. Carpets are semi arboreal at best. 
Tree tops? You won't find imbricata that high up.
Yep I'm familiar with Gillians Uni papers.... The studies of the garden island populations are very interesting. The perth to buno aren't the habitat I was talking about though. You will notice in my first post that I said "many areas"  
The wild ones I have from the terrestrial areas spend most their time on the floor too. Occasionally sitting in a branch, but not to the same extent as the wild ones from woodlands. Also most of their food source is from lower living animals.

You'll also find the papers by Dave Pearson talk more in depth about the the limestone and island populations.

Nearly all texts and places like Snake Ranch refer to Morelia spilota as *semi arboreal*. I guess we all have different interpretations of the english language and what words mean to us.

Are you the George White that Hoser has listed as being bitten by a RBBs.?...


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## Wing_Nut (Nov 10, 2014)

Have to agree with [MENTION=16366]Snowman[/MENTION] on this, the wild caught imbricata from more terrestrial environments that I have also seem to prefer being on the floor and are awkward climbers at best. I would go as far as saying that across the distribution range and the many localities that I keep there is a general preference for them to spend more time on the ground as well. Semi-arboreal at best. Nothing I have seen in the bush would suggest otherwise either both in heavily wooded areas and less vegetated terrain. 

Wing_Nut


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## Ramsayi (Nov 10, 2014)

womas have been found in trees up to 5 mtrs above the ground.Who'd of thunk it!


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## Snowman (Nov 10, 2014)

Ramsayi said:


> womas have been found in trees up to 5 mtrs above the ground.Who'd of thunk it!


And Tiger snakes..


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## GBWhite (Nov 10, 2014)

Hi Snow,

Yeah, Gillians paper is a good read. I didn't think it was the location you were talking about. I thought you were referring to the mallee scrub, granite outcrops or the limestone areas.

I don't know if semi arboreal is quite the correct term. Maybe if anything semi terrestrial (if there is such a term...hahaha). If any animal has the ability to to live or maneuver in trees then, according to the dictionary definition it is arboreal. From personal experience with field work I'm of the opinion that besides nesting and transversing from one location to another they spend a hell of a lot more time off the ground than on it. My point in using chimps and koalas as an example was to demonstrate that even these arboreal animals also spend time on the ground. 

I've caught and observed a hell of a lot of the Morelia spilota group in the wild over my lifetime. I've collected in most habitats from the Vic border to Cairns and Darwin and from the seaside dunes of the east coast to out around Bourke and can tell you from first hand experience that on many, many occasions found them in trees, tree hollows, house rafters and rock crevices. Sure I've found them on roads and on the ground at times but the vast majority have been in situations up off the ground. I've have also spent a bit of time around Perth and SW WA. I've had the opportunity to have a look around Collie State Forest where I found a couple of imbricata, maybe not in tree tops, but at what I would class as reasonable heights, in tree hollows and the rafters of an old abandoned house.

George.

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[h=2]arboreal[/h] http://www.yourdictionary.com/arboreal# [?r b?r*?*? ?l]Use *arboreal* in a sentence

_adjective_

Arboreal is defined as something having the evolutionary characteristics of animals which allow them to live or maneuver through trees.

Same site.

Yeah I am the same George White and I've got the scare to prove it...hahaha. Why?





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I've known Steve Wilson, Jerry Swan, Rick Shine and Chris Williams of Snake Ranch personally for a long time. (I was with Steve when he caught his first Coastal back in the early 1970's) From memory I don't think any of them have had a lot to do with observing many wild Morelia personally. Like a lot of the info provided in their text their description of Morelia as semi arboreal is just duplicated from the old text of Worrell, Kinghorn. etc.


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## Snowman (Nov 11, 2014)

George I think you need to re-read the thread. hahahaha 

My first post was in response to a post claiming "All carpets have about the same habits in my experience"
I replied to that with the fact that imbricata don't share the same habits in many areas. Despite that you keep talking about imbricata you've seen in woodland around south of perth, which obviously are not the habitats that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the limestone dwellers and salt bush up to about 500mm high found on the islands and coastal areas north of Lancelin.
As Wing nut has also shared his first hand experince of keeping these imbricata you'll note that they do in fact have different habits to other carpets (my initial response and first quote). Whilst the collie and dryandra imbricata are proficient climbers we find the ones that have evolved without trees to be poor climbers and they tend to enjoy the floor mostly. 
As for arboreal, I have to wonder why so many published herpetologists refer to them as semi arboreal if in fact you insist they are arboreal based on the fact they can climb? I can only guess that we have different understanding of arboreal when it comes to snakes. My dictionary states the same as I showed a screen cap of.. saying lives in trees. Not sometimes climbs trees. By your very definition I myself am arboreal since I can and do climb trees on occasion.....


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## GBWhite (Nov 11, 2014)

Hi Snow,

I concede that I didn't read Wing Nut's post before I commented and what he has written definitely confirms what you said about their terrestrial habits in the locations mentioned. I suppose this does provide evidence toward this behaviour but it's not a species thing it's just their adopted survival technique in a certain environment. It's interesting to note that wild caught specimens held in captivity display this behaviour and I wonder if their cage environments are horizontal to accommodate for their original local. I wonder how they would adapt if caged in a vertical enclosure with hides placed above the floor. I'd be interested if anyone has attempted this and the outcome.

I suppose that we'll just have to agree to disagree on the definition of arboreal...hahaha, (makes for good discussion anyway) and yes by my definition humans are arboreal because even though modern humans don't practice living in trees evolution has provided us with the ability to live and maneuver in trees if we wished to. All the best.

Cheers.


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## Wing_Nut (Nov 11, 2014)

The imbricata I keep are all housed much the same, with a choice of a elevated hide and a ground hide at the cool side of the enclosure. The inland (Wheatbelt area), the Northern (Lancelin, Geralton areas) definitely use and prefer the ground hides. Even the animals from the Perth foothills, and the lower south (Margaret River area) seem to use the ground hide more regularly than you would think given there local habitat. I have found the animals from the terrestrial areas bask far less during the day compared with the more southern varieties, just as a matter of interest. More importantly, captive bred specimens from these same animals so far have exhibited similar behaviour. While this is not totally conclusive, it suggests to me that some evolutionary changes have occurred in different regions. It is interesting to note that when hungry, the animals from more vegetated areas will perch higher up in ambush positions while the more terrestrial animals sit on top of there hides in a similar fashion. 

Wing_Nut


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## Snowman (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes I've made similar obsevations to Wing nut as I also provide a floor hide and an elevated hide. Though some just an elevated hide, if they are from the wooded areas. 
The tracking Dave did they found the specimens fitted with trackers brumating on the ground under thick bushes. As opposed to the ones from woodland brumating in logs and tree hollows. It's fascinating to observe these animals and the small differences when brought into captivity. I've noticed the ones from limestone areas prefer to be squished in a crevice like between a hide and the side of the viv, than actually use a hide. 
I'm eagerly waiting for first gen captive bred in a year or two to see if the progeny are keen to climb or if by instinct they prefer the lower areas.


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## Primo (Nov 12, 2014)

Excellent banter!

All of this is very interesting to me for sure.

As with all snake species, we need to consider captive VS wild environments before making general conclusions.

I am quite pleased that you are all able to experience both as I can only attest to what I see in the captive environment. 

Thanks for all of the insight!


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