# Python ID?



## mdw00 (Mar 23, 2013)

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Hi,
Found this little guy in the garden this morning and just wondered if its native for the area. Hornsby NSW?

If its native I'll probably leave it be but if it's an escapee I might have to take it to a reptile store or Sydney Wildlife.

I've done a google and closest match is a Stimson Python but they are from WA?

Cheers

Mark


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## woody101 (Mar 23, 2013)

Coastal Carpet


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## mdw00 (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks, Does that mean its native for the area?


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## -Peter (Mar 23, 2013)

Its a diamond hatchling, they often look like that early on. It will probably develop into a bog standard Nth Shore diamond.


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## woody101 (Mar 23, 2013)

-Peter said:


> Its a diamond hatchling, they often look like that early on. It will probably develop into a bog standard Nth Shore diamond.



It does look like it has diamond in it but thats not a pure diamond if anything its a diamond x coastal intergrade or its mum or dad was.


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## Gruni (Mar 23, 2013)

I haven't seen many Diamond hatchies but that looks like a standard Coastal to me... A very nice Coastal but still one none the less.


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## glennh (Mar 23, 2013)

looks like a standard coastal to me, and yes its a native


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## Varanid (Mar 23, 2013)

Definitely a juvenile diamond python...


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## Bushman (Mar 23, 2013)

Hi Mark. There is no doubt that it's a juvenile Carpet Python (_Morelia spilota_). This species has a more or less continuous range from Victoria to Queensland and has distinct geographic variations. The form that is endemic to your area is the Diamond Python. However, this particular specimen doesn't look like a typical juvenile Diamond Python. Typical Diamonds usually have small individual rosettes rather than banding to the extent that this specimen has. Having said that, whilst I've never seen a pure Diamond Python juvenile that is banded to that extent, it's not impossible. 
In my opinion this snake is more likely to be the progeny of escaped northern form (e.g Coastal or intergrade) that has hybridized with a local Diamond or an escapee itself. Do you still have the snake?


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## Gruni (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks Bushman I figured a more experienced voice would say it. I didn't think snakes patterns would change as they mature and the banding rather than rosettes was what I based my comment on. I know the colour will develop as it mature if it is a diamond but that is really the only change I've been told of.


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## andynic07 (Mar 23, 2013)

How long is it?


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## mdw00 (Mar 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replys guys. Its about 1 foot long and currently gone to sleep at the bottom of the pot that we found it in. Sounds like some sort of carpet Python hybrid then so it most likely belongs in the area. I have seen bigger diamond pythons in the bushland around where I live before so hopefully it will head back into the bush and have a happy life : )

Cheers
Mark


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## Dendrobates (Mar 23, 2013)

Everytime people see a picture of a snake that looks a little bit different to the norm, or different to pics that they've seen on forums they instantly jump to the conclusion that it's a hybrid.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 24, 2013)

Diamonds are the only python native to the area (for several hundred kilometres). In my opinion that is certainly not a Diamond hatchling, given the size and shape of what should be “rosettes”. Here is a photo of a couple of typical Diamond hatchlings, plus a pic of the parents, so you can compare… http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/sale-snakes-43/diamond-python-hatchlings-157926/#post1914503. It does however have the markings you would expect for a straight coastal hatchling. Diamond x Coastal offspring can have similar markings. 

I would say it is either a straight Costal or a Diamond-Coastal cross hatchling.

To be a straight Coastal it would have to be an escapee from someone living quite close by as it would have had to make its own way your house. To be cross would require that an escaped adult Coastal mated with a local adult Diamond. Given adults’ capacity to travel distances versus that of a hatchling, I would say the latter is the more likely scenario. 

Blue

PS I don’t see why the “hybrid” (sic) scenario is jumping to conclusions in this particular case.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 24, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Diamonds are the only python native to the area (for several hundred kilometres). In my opinion that is certainly not a Diamond hatchling, given the size and shape of what should be “rosettes”. Here is a photo of a couple of typical Diamond hatchlings, plus a pic of the parents, so you can compare… http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/sale-snakes-43/diamond-python-hatchlings-157926/#post1914503. It does however have the markings you would expect for a straight coastal hatchling. Diamond x Coastal offspring can have similar markings.
> 
> I would say it is either a straight Costal or a Diamond-Coastal cross hatchling.
> 
> ...



Or one of the many people who are crossing carpets let one escape....


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## Manda1032 (Mar 24, 2013)

I love how it's clearly a coastal and people say it's a diamond. If people aren't 100% sure why do they say anything at all


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## nintendont (Mar 24, 2013)

Manda1032 said:


> I love how it's clearly a coastal and people say it's a diamond. If people aren't 100% sure why do they say anything at all


I love how everyone can even attempt to positively ID any Morelia Spilota sp.

In cases like this everyone will have an opinion but no-one can identify beyond reasonable doubt. No try.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 24, 2013)

Its Morelia Spilota, end of storey


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 24, 2013)

With all due respect *GeckoJosh*, I believe there is clearly sufficient grounds available to go one step further than that, even if it is a question mark between two possibilities.

Blue


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## tahniandshae (Mar 24, 2013)

IMO its a carpet. I breed them both. its 100% not a diamond. looks like many of our coastal hatchies. doesn't even look like a cross


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 25, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> With all due respect *GeckoJosh*, I believe there is clearly sufficient grounds available to go one step further than that, even if it is a question mark between two possibilities.
> 
> Blue



But we still cannot say for sure, no one can.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 25, 2013)

*GeckoJosh*, you are quite correct. The point I was getting at is that if one can further reduce the possibilities in an ID thread, then I believe one should do so.

*Tahniandshae,* I agree that it does look like a straight carpet. I have never seen a hatchling cross but I did have several photos sent to me of adult natural intergrades and they were very carpet like. I think it gets down to how close the neighbours are, if one keeps snakes and how close to natural bushland the house is, as to which is the more likely origins and type.

Blue


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## -Peter (Mar 25, 2013)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/diamond-193915/


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## Norm (Mar 25, 2013)

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this thread...but here I go anyway! 
With the number of "that's not a pure diamond" comments people get when posting pics I'm surprised that people are saying its a locally hatched wild diamond. I have intergrade hatchies here that look more diamond than that, and I know there can be a lot of variation but to me that is clearly not a pure diamond. I'm not going to speculate as to what it is because it could be anything. But I will say that I believe it is most probably escaped or the offspring of an escaped carpet.
Just another quick comment, if the op was posting that pic as his new diamond that he had bought, people would be telling him he's been ripped off because its not a pure diamond.


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## Gruni (Mar 25, 2013)

Assuming it is in all likelihood an escaped Coastal (or whatever) and not a local Diamond is there anyway to be allowed to keep it? It really is a nice looking specimen.


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## Zipidee (Mar 25, 2013)

Hi Guys. Not wanting to be controversial at all here, but I've been herping in the same area for more than 30 years and I've seen baby Diamonds of a similar pattern and colour to this, but they are usually much darker, and usually have rosettes rather than longer "stripe" type patterns. The colours in the photo - especially the one with the flash - do give it a more NNSW Coast look. Might it be better to not release it until it can be identified as definitely a Diamond? What are the rules for these things? I know it's illegal to release a captive bred animal into the wild, but what about one found in the wild that is suspected of being captive bred? We need a lawyer!!??!!:lol:


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## Norm (Mar 25, 2013)

Gruni and Zipidee, there good points. If it was a BHP or an Olive it wouldn't be allowed to remain in that area. I don't know what would happen to it but I'm pretty sure it would be collected by NPWS. I was talking to a guy who does reptile shows once and he was called to relocate a snake in the Newcastle area and when he turned up it was a jungle. I don't know how he went about it but he now has that snake. He was able to keep it because it wasn't from that area, in other words it was obviously an escapee.
I don't know the answer but its an interesting debate.


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## Gruni (Mar 25, 2013)

Zipidee, this was basically what I was just getting at. You have just said it yourself, compared to what you have seen in that time the pattern does not match to the expectation of a local diamond with the absence of rosettes. Also there is no sign yet of the scale highlighting either and I would think by the time it has reached the size it is that it should have the diamond colouring too.

If you have the means to keep it safely in a tub, give NPWS a call and explain your situation as _they are the only ones who can give you a definite answer._ They will either ask to see the animal or at the least the pictures and who knows they may offer it to you or it may go in a ballot if they believe it is not a local specimen.


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## Darwin-boy (Mar 27, 2013)

it also looks like a juvi darwin :S


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## Darlyn (Mar 27, 2013)

-Peter said:


> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/diamond-193915/


I put a far bit of weight into Peter's opinion. I'm not trying to ID it but because no one agree's with him I think he may be correct.


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## Sel (Mar 27, 2013)

Manda1032 said:


> I love how it's clearly a coastal and people say it's a diamond. If people aren't 100% sure why do they say anything at all



Are you 100% sure? Don't think so..

Id say its part Diamond at least..but who knows for sure. Just leave it where it is, be happy it is sharing your backyard..


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## -Peter (Mar 28, 2013)

Darlyn said:


> I put a far bit of weight into Peter's opinion. I'm not trying to ID it but because no one agree's with him I think he may be correct.



I may be wrong but we have found them looking like this for many years now. There is a large number of coastal genetics around that area from years of misidentification resulting in many animals being released that should not have. It is where organised volunteer wildlife rescue originated.


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## Bushman (Mar 31, 2013)

-Peter said:


> I may be wrong but we have found them looking like this for many years now. There is a large number of coastal genetics around that area from years of misidentification resulting in many animals being released that should not have. It is where organised volunteer wildlife rescue originated.


Thanks Peter. It's unfortunate that this has occurred but it's understandable I guess. I didn't know that the area where the snake was found is where wildlife rescue originated in Oz. That's interesting. 
So it's quite possible that this specimen is a wild hybrid. What do you recommend be done in cases such as these? (release or pass on to herp societies for adoption?)


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