# HYBRID (look out)



## craig.a.c (Jun 13, 2005)

Found this on another site (american), thought some of you may find it interesting. It is 75% GTP and 25% West Papuan Carpet.


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## NCHERPS (Jun 13, 2005)

That's 'Yassers' Carpondro, not as good looking as it was when it was younger, but will be interesting to see what it looks like after full colour change.
Nice snake though!

Neil


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

I find myself strangely drawn to that snake. I wonder what it will eventually look like ?


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## craig.a.c (Jun 13, 2005)

You are right Neil, been looking at his snakes on that site for a while, has some nice ones.


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## SLACkra (Jun 13, 2005)

pretty, pitty we can't make hybrids here, don't terribly understand why. hybrids are probably being made in the wild anyways. 

andrew


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

Andrew.............don't do it..............oh well too late you've said it now 

I can't understand it either, it's not like our snakes are ever to be used to restock depleted wild collections or anything like that and has been said many times not many of us know the true history of our animals past maybe the parents.


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## peterescue (Jun 13, 2005)

and the great thing is the mugs that buy them cant breed them on and spoil your prices because they are most likely sterile


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## NoOne (Jun 13, 2005)

Poor thing


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

Why are they mugs ?


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

He looks happy enough to me. 



dugadugabowbow said:


> Poor thing


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## Dicco (Jun 13, 2005)

dugadugabowbow said:


> Poor thing


I'll second that.


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

I don't get it, why is it a 'poor thing' ? Being sterile isn't a death sentence.


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## NoOne (Jun 13, 2005)

Because the poor thing doesn't know what it is, doesn't wether to be a GTP or a carpet, would be confusing instincts for it.


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## hugsta (Jun 13, 2005)

Will be interesting to see it in its adult colouration.


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

I would hazzard a guess and say it probably couldn't care less what it is, it's a snake and eats mice, I reckon that is the limit of the care factor


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## NoOne (Jun 13, 2005)

How does it know wether it needs gtp care or carpet care? Lucky they are pretty similar.


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## playwell (Jun 13, 2005)

I would love to have the money,snakes,time & the knowlegde to play around with genetics and hybridisation.

Then again I would love to have exotics as well. 8) 

Wow, thats gotta go against some of the views here  .

But at the moment I will stick to my Aussie buties and keep them pure, for now. :twisted:  

I'm sure not all will agree with my view but I dont know you, and you dont know me, so whooppee :lol:


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

It will be a Carpet python that sits around all day doing nothing and craps once a month ;-)


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## playwell (Jun 13, 2005)

boa said:


> It will be a Carpet python that sits around all day doing nothing and craps once a month ;-)



up a tree.


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2005)

Don't worry about who agrees and who doesn't Playwell, it would be a boring world if we all agreed about everything. 
I definitely plan to have a play sometime soon.


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## moosenoose (Jun 13, 2005)

*Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



SLACkra said:


> pretty, pitty we can't make hybrids here, don't terribly understand why. hybrids are probably being made in the wild anyways.
> 
> andrew



Sounds like a question you'd like to ask Browns :lol: :lol: :lol: Perhaps you should send him a PM :wink: :twisted:


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## hugsta (Jun 13, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

So if a white australian marries a black sth african and they have kids, does that mean they are caramel hybrids...... and would they be double or single hets??? LOL


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## peterescue (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



boa said:


> Why are they mugs ?



I think that about most people who are consumer addicts Boa.
Gotta have this car, that home enetertainment centre, that brand of clothing, that mule snake.


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## SLACkra (Jun 14, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



> that mule snake.



WOH!!!! ok no hybrids. who hear would want to be born into a world, looking mighty fine then findign out your sterile! who??????


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## kevyn (Jun 14, 2005)

Hybrid issues aside, Yasser (spitfirereptiles.com) produces some of the best morelia anywhere. He has amazing stock. This collection of amethystine pythons is second to none.


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## Retic (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

I can't say I am a consumer addict but I just lurve those designer snakes, gimme gimme gimme. :lol: 



peterescue said:


> boa said:
> 
> 
> > Why are they mugs ?
> ...


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## Menagerie (Jun 14, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

personally it looks a little patchy and a bit ugly


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## hugsta (Jun 14, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



> Hybrid issues aside, Yasser (spitfirereptiles.com) produces some of the best morelia anywhere. He has amazing stock. This collection of amethystine pythons is second to none.



He does have some awesome animals. Wish I had some of his stuff.


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## peterescue (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



boa said:


> I can't say I am a consumer addict but I just lurve those designer snakes, gimme gimme gimme. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well breed some. Theres the art. Not buying them.


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## Retic (Jun 14, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

Absolutely, stay tuned to this channel


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## Magpie (Jun 14, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

I tried to breed my cars, it just didn't work... cooled them and everything.
BTW, it's a 50/50 GTPxCarpet.


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## craig.a.c (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



Magpie said:


> by the way, it's a 50/50 GTPxCarpet.



I was wondering how they get 75% GTP and 25% carpet.


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## peterescue (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*



craig.a.c said:


> I was wondering how they get 75% GTP and 25% carpet.



Full GTP one parent and 50/50 other parent = 75/25

hahaha, I cant believe I wrote that


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## geckodan (Jun 14, 2005)

> and the great thing is the mugs that buy them cant breed them on and spoil your prices because they are most likely sterile



Are there any adults around to prove that they are sterile?. This fact alone should be supportive of the possibility that a chondro is just a green carpet python. Not starting an argument, just interested in knowing??


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## Greebo (Jun 14, 2005)

Second verse, same as the first.


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## The Rock (Jun 14, 2005)

I think you will find that those hybrids will be fertile. Because they are both the in the same genetic family and more of a sub-species than a different species. Plus think about it, if it came from a 50/50 gtp/carpet that animal has already proven they can breed.
Rob


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## BROWNS (Jun 14, 2005)

Yep i have no doubt at all that thhey are fertile animals for sure.


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## craig.a.c (Jun 14, 2005)

I though they were INTERGRADES, not hybrids...


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## Magpie (Jun 15, 2005)

> Are there any adults around to prove that they are sterile?. This fact alone should be supportive of the possibility that a chondro is just a green carpet python. Not starting an argument, just interested in knowing??



I'm pretty sure the reason the guy who owns this snake bought it is to try and prove that they are in fact fertile and produce a 75/25 gtp/carpet. So far I do not believe it has been done.


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2005)

I can't see why they would be sterile to be honest, they are close enough not to be affected.


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## BROWNS (Jun 15, 2005)

> Are there any adults around to prove that they are sterile?. This fact alone should be supportive of the possibility that a chondro is just a green carpet python. Not starting an argument, just interested in knowing??


Yep i've always thought of them as a green carpet and nothing more that needs a little extra care than most carpets similar to diamonds.When you think about it IrianJayas or West Papuans are very much like jungles and gtp and jungles, PNG carpets and Gtp are in similar area in Png And GTP are in similar area to jungles,so jungles being very similar to GTP being highly arboreal and have big boofy heads,predominantly bird eaters as well as the odd rodent,mammal and amphibian/REPTILE"GECKOSEG".They are both members of moelia,Gtp caudal lure which i have seen in jungles which i'm sure would do this in the wild very much the same as Gtp, so i'm with Dan which i've always said all they are is green carpet pythons to me and nothing special at all and personally the exotic ones are far more appealing than pur Aussies.


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## craig23 (Jun 15, 2005)

a intergrade is the natural evolution of one sub species to another, diamond python intergrades arnt crosses, they represent the change of the species.. The fact they consider diamond intergades as intergrades means they assume either carpets changed (evolved) into daimonds or visa vera, if they believed the sub species evolved seperately, then intergrades would be crosses. Its like in a stupid way of saying it.... apes are the intergrade between monkeys and humans... they are not the result of crossing humans and monkeys.. hahahahahaha sicko


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## craig23 (Jun 15, 2005)

does anyone have other pics of hybrids??????? aussie snakes that is


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## kevyn (Jun 15, 2005)

Here's a woma/iryan jaya capet cross produced by NERD.


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2005)

Mmmm, well I have Woma's and Bredls. Just joking before you start jumping up and down.


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## BROWNS (Jun 15, 2005)

Well that's as wrong as it gets and would have to be a muel.What idiot crossed these.....what did he think he'd get ?One really confused snake no doubt about that.Heat pits,completely differnt specis and natural diet et etc what a ridiculous thing to do....typicsl and to be expected from abroad :roll:


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## moosenoose (Jun 15, 2005)

Perhaps there is room for hybridization, but I agree with Browns on that last one. Apart from the esthetics of it, what on earth are they planning to do with it? Use it as a sideshow freak?? Next they will be trying to sucessfully breed the two headed snakes on a regular basis :roll:


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2005)

I agree there is definitely room for hybrids, I certainly have no problem with a lot of them but lets not kid ourselves that these things only happen 'abroad'.


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## BROWNS (Jun 15, 2005)

Would you buy one of these boa.I guarantee the first to cross these two species are definitely from abroad and i know hybridisation happens here too but it's not advertised as nobody would want the mongrels anyway.Not a fan of womas and that thing looks even worse...that's just my tastes before anyone jumps in :wink:


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2005)

I guess it is the way people look down their noses at overseas breeders and lump them all in together. How many times do we see 'Only in America' or 'typical Yank' ? It happens more often as there are 1000 times more breeders in the States especially.


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## craig23 (Jun 15, 2005)

hahaha thats amazing... who would have thought they would even genetically be able to reproduce... mext it will be elapids and pythons LOL


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## Retic (Jun 15, 2005)

That happens already, every farmer knows of carpet/brownsnake crosses


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## africancichlidau (Jun 15, 2005)

Ah yes, Boa, you obviously speak of the "shovel" breeds


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## herptrader (Jun 15, 2005)

*RE: Re: RE: HYBRID (look out)*

Did the original picture get moved?


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## kevyn (Jun 17, 2005)

> Apart from the esthetics of it, what on earth are they planning to do with it? Use it as a sideshow freak??



Sell it, what else would they do with them? There's plenty of people that will pay big money for them. And of course the first to breed the woma/iryan jaya cross would be from overseas, as you guys can't have iryan jaya carpets. Has it occured to anyone over there? Maybe. What this breeding has really accomplished is it has destroyed the theory that only individuals of the same genus can cross breed. Some food for thought for the biologists.

Not all hybrids are sterile either. The bornoe bateater (retic/burm cross) can breed. So can the burm/afrock. As can the JCPxDiamond pythons, and the gtp/carpets. Only time will tell for these little guys.


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## kevyn (Jun 17, 2005)

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but I just thought of something else. Boa is right, there are way more breeders this side of the ocean. The reptile industry is also a bigger money market here than over there. The competion is intense in a market where some animals comand a $100 000 USD price tag. The pressure is on to keep coming up with new things to entice an ever growing, jaded customer base with.

If exotics where open to Australian buyers, then the same competetivness would be on. The market there would be blown open. The flow of morphs into Australia would be steady. As would the oprotunity to cross animals. I'm not saying that profit minded actions are justified, just offering a bit of reasoning behind the actions themselves. In a market where people can make well over $10 000USD for some crosses, you bet there would be people there lining up to produce these hybrids.


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## Jason (Jun 18, 2005)

sounds to me like some of the breeders over seas are only interested in the money and not the animals, yer they can get alot of money for some hybrids but even if we could get exotics in australia i wouldn't want the hybrids i'd want a pure snake, i would want full blood not 50/50 or 75/25 why would i want a bit of every thing in the one snake, personaly i think the majority of hybrids are ugly i wouldn't even buy a cross in australia now unless its natural im not interested.


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## BROWNS (Jun 18, 2005)

> And of course the first to breed the woma/iryan jaya cross would be from overseas, as you guys can't have iryan jaya carpets. Has it occured to anyone over there?


Well i couldn't see any difference between an IJ cross woma or a jungle cross woma still morelia cross aspidites and same end result one confused ugly blackhead wanna be carpet woma :roll:


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## Retic (Jun 18, 2005)

Jason, there will always be breeders interested only in the money and believe me you don't have to be overseas for that to apply, I reckon, shock horror that it might even happen here :-0
In the same way there will always be people interested in good looking hybrids, I myself love a lot of the hybrids, not at the exclusion of pure animals but as well as.


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## BROWNS (Jun 18, 2005)

I don't mind hybrids of any of the Morelia and even a Amethestyne carpet cross is fine but i think there should be a line drawn somewhere and there are laws against crossing subspecies in certain states and that's just Morelia which are all carpets at the end of the day,but a completely different species with opposite instincts "ground dweller desert dry land type animals ,no heat pits mixed in with an arboreal rainforest dwelling seperate species which i'm guessing would be much like jungles/smaller carpets and i would say mainly birds small mammals and rodents as diet etc etc compared to reptiles for aspidites and all their other differences i think these types of hybrids should be the animals not to be crossed and made illegal with heavy fines or jail time for anyone that does this as it's just plain straight out WRONG messing with nature that much, but i'm not against morelia for hybridisising and would also be fine with womabhp hybrids and the bumblebeeeeeee reptile eater as opposed to bird munchers,childrens group etc but i guess the demand will dictate wether this will eventually happen or not.This is of couse just my opinion :wink:


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## kevyn (Jun 19, 2005)

> sounds to me like some of the breeders over seas are only interested in the money and not the animals,



If there wasn't a market for them here, no one would be breeding them. The bottom line is, lots of people here like hybrids.


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## Retic (Jun 19, 2005)

And here, the ones that don't are the most vocal


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## Jason (Jun 19, 2005)

i was probly a bit broad in what i said, i do realise there is people here that are only interested in the money and i think that is fine so long as the animals are looked after proply, i geuss there are some hybrids that i dont mind like jungle and coastals, but to pretty much sum it all up the way i should have said it the first time, i agree with what BROWNS said in his last post...a line should b drawn to stop the hybridisation of completely different snakes eg. womas x carpets


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## kevyn (Jun 19, 2005)

> a line should b drawn to stop the hybridisation of completely different snakes eg. womas x carpets



No one even knew this was possible until Kevin from NERD proved it witht he woma/IJ carpet.


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## BROWNS (Jun 19, 2005)

Hey check this out,i've been working on an "Australian" purple/lavender albino Ball pythons and thought i'ed have a play and throw some jungle into them and this is what i'm producing now.As you can see they keep the ball python looking head but have inherited strong jungle traits $50 k for a pair if anyones interested!!!These are what i call Aussie Spotted Bungles :wink: 











LMFAO


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## steve6610 (Jun 19, 2005)

hi andrew,
put me down for 2 pair,


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## BROWNS (Jun 19, 2005)

Sweet,no problems.Apparently there's also a rare phase of intergrades of this species found in a specific locality in the Southern parts of Antarticta and another strain found at Blackall just outside of Rockhamton,you may be familiar with the area?


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## steve6610 (Jun 19, 2005)

> another strain found at Blackall just outside of Rockhamton,you may be familiar with the area?



haven't been there for awhile, but do know the area, got to love those intergrades,


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## dee4 (Jun 20, 2005)

> Hey check this out,i've been working on an "Australian" purple/lavender albino Ball pythons and thought i'ed have a play and throw some jungle into them and this is what i'm producing now.As you can see they keep the ball python looking head but have inherited strong jungle traits $50 k for a pair if anyones interested!!!These are what i call Aussie Spotted Bungles


I herd Santa had some Albino one's already Browns, so you are a bit late with that one.


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## BROWNS (Jun 20, 2005)

He doen't have my strain i can assure you of that,these are true Bungles in every sense of the word not those intergrade things so get in quick while they last as they may be muels as the female was artificially inseminated as well as a gene isolatend and introduced from Sandfire Chameleons fom the Carribean similar to octopi where the colours morph out.Get your never ending colour phase change gtp of the hybrid world now as this is the very first clutch offered for sale to the public!


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## Stevo (Jun 20, 2005)

I want a pink one please


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## steve6610 (Jun 20, 2005)

hi andrew,
just letting you know i've got the cash for my pair, 
give me a call tonight and we can work out what dark street corner 
we can do the exchange, 
roflmgo.....

cheers,
steve........


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## BROWNS (Jun 20, 2005)

> I want a pink one please


Sill working on those stevo but you first on the list mate if you're keen.


> hi andrew,
> just letting you know i've got the cash for my pair,
> give me a call tonight and we can work out what dark street corner
> we can do the exchange


Yeah good steve,i'll pm you my account details or we can meet in Bucasia and do the deal on the sly.You know that little rest spot just near Prussia well i can arrange to meet you there, so that's one pair gone 2 pairs left...Cheers :wink:


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## steve6610 (Jun 20, 2005)

hi andrew,
thats ok, see you there.....

cheers,
steve............


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## lutzd (Jun 21, 2005)

Hey Browns, sorry I'm not interested in the snake. However, if you are interested in selling me that great blue-tinged plant in the photo, now .......  ;-)


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## munkee (Aug 2, 2005)

There is a good chance that the animal is breedable. Think about the lineage 1/4 west papuan carpet and 3/4 GTP This means one of the parents was a half:half Hybrid that bred. It means the species aren't very far removed to be able to produce viable offspring. All of the morelia's are interbreedable, The papuan carpet and GTP may be classified differently but could be the same (at least close genetically) to breed successfully at all.


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