# why some people shouldnt have kids



## Mr feegle (Jul 10, 2007)

hope its a venomoid


[video=youtube;79Al2VD-Kvw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Al2VD-Kvw&NR=1[/video]


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## scam7278 (Jul 10, 2007)

what the hell ?????


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## Love_snakes (Jul 10, 2007)

i agree i found that clip to be sickning i feel like punching that babies parents n the head don't you?
<3sarah(love snakes)


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## 0_missy_0 (Jul 10, 2007)

Disgusting. Poor snake!


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## Recharge (Jul 10, 2007)

probably had it's fangs removed... or that kid would be frying it's eyes out, then dead..


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## cement (Jul 10, 2007)

Yeah its defanged, probably got no glands and their teaching the kid to not fear cobras, so it grows up to be a part of the family act. Poor state of affairs all round.


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## Tatelina (Jul 10, 2007)

Fantastic! I love seeing a snake that not only has it's venom glands/fangs/whatever-they've-done-to-make-it-not-poisonous but is stressed to the max cause some stupid infant is being taught to have no fear or respect of animals. Perfect!
I love Australia.


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## MoreliaMatt (Jul 10, 2007)

they sew their mouths shut.....


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## Bung-Eye (Jul 10, 2007)

it's had it's mouth sewn shut, this has been posted plenty of times, i'm surprised so many haven't seen it. It's shot in india, seemingly the father is a snake charmer passing knowledge from father to son.


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## Horsy (Jul 10, 2007)

That's so nasty. How does it eat if it's mouth is sewn? Do they just unsew it after it's done with the kid?
I hope at the end when it started wrapping that it kills that damn baby.


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## krusty (Jul 10, 2007)

lol,lol.


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## Nikki. (Jul 10, 2007)

why? and poor snakie too :cry:


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## reece89 (Jul 10, 2007)

there is some sick people in the world


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## nook171 (Jul 10, 2007)

it's mouth is sewed shut


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## Horsy (Jul 10, 2007)

How does it eat?!!! Do they just let it starve or unsew it? Ahh I hate people.


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## Nikki. (Jul 10, 2007)

yeah poor snakie :cry:


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## nook171 (Jul 10, 2007)

we have seen it been done before and i went rank at the people sewing the snakes mouth shut


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## Nikki. (Jul 10, 2007)

rank ?


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## nook171 (Jul 10, 2007)

mental


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## Hickson (Jul 10, 2007)

I'll remind everyone that, as has been pointed out, the footage was shot in India. And while we might find the behaviour of the parents to be anathema to our own ideals, we should also remember that India is another culture with a completely different set of values.

I'm not saying what they have done is OK - personally, I found it disturbing - just that they do things differently over there, and that kind of behaviour and set of values is obviously acceptable to some extent.



Hix


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## Pythons Rule (Jul 11, 2007)

yeah I was told that the snakes mouth was taped shut, if it where de fanged it would have its mouth open and the baby would be crying everytime it strikes. no matter what the parents need to be shot and the kid taken away.


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## prettyinmetal (Jul 11, 2007)

*what the crap!*

that is damn disgusting, i dont care what country they come from and what different values they have there! 
Thats a venomous snake, thats a baby, regardless of if its had its fangs removed, venomous snake and little baby that can cause damage is not a good mix!!!!!

what if that kid as a toddler sees a wild cobra and it whacks him a goodin woops, parents should have thought about that scenario before they played fire with fire!

Parents should be shot, and poor snake had to endure getting its fangs removed, and who knows how they did it! 

Respect nature or it wont respect us, isnt that what most people stand by!!!! far out that has just made me so cross, watching that was so yuk!


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## junglered-e (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks a lot for that Hix..... Obviously some people on this thread haven't seen the thread where this video was posted b4 this.......... Let me try and enlighten them abt this video and the Indian culture.... Hope that's ok with u.........

For a start, I'm Indian and these people come from a tribe called the Irulas ( South India ) who for generations have been snake charmers and that's the only profession they know........ Unfortunately for them, India is a developing country and doesn't have the resources to educate or provide facilities like dole so these people are expected to fend for themselves... The kind of money that these people make charming snake is less then a few $$ a month and they are expected to survive on that....... They can’t even afford proper food and clothing let alone medical aide and even more anti-venom if they get bitten........ 

The Indian culture accepts snake charming but definitely not the cruel practices that the Irulas resort to, to charm snakes and trust me most Indian's don't even know abt the fact that the snakes venom gland's are removed. All that they see is a snake dancing to the tune of the charmers flute.... 

Around ten years back, some of the Indian herp lovers and the government realized what was happening and banned keeping snakes as pet's....... So that's a good start......... Now all that these tribes are encouraged to catch snakes for is to supply them to institutes where these snakes are milked for their venom and then released back into the wild.... That way both the Irulas and the snakes are benefiting.... Hope this makes u guys happy, sure doe’s make me happy... 

As for this video, it's a demonstration of how these tribes have introduced their children to snakes just so they over come the fear of snakes at a young age.... For them their child is more important then the snake and am quit sure that would be the case any where in the world....

As for some of u'r question, yes the mouth was sewed so that it doesn't bite the kid....

Yes the snake most probably died because if just the fang's were removed then they would grow back but if the gland's itself were removed then the snake can never grow them back and it needs it's venom to digest it's prey...... 

I do feel sorry for the snake but feel even more sorry for the conditions these people live in(since I’m human too)........ I personally along with heap's more Indian herpers hate what happened to these snakes but if u ever get a chance to go to India and see the living conditions of these people, u will surely feel bad for them too........ 

Guess I have said too much already....... Let me shut up.......... 

By the way, if u get the time, do a quick search on youtube on snake charmers or even google for that matter......... cheers

JR...........


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## junglered-e (Jul 11, 2007)

sorry prettyinmetal, had to ask........... When was the last time u went hungry. if fact have u gone more then a day hungry??? Cos if u have, then u would probably realize that u'r life is a lil more important then the life of a snake (hobby)........ Shoot is a pretty drastic word and it probably proves that speaking is easier than trying to find out why people do what they do......... Anyway, don't mean to offend u......... Just trying to make a point here......... cheers

JR.......


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## Scleropages (Jul 11, 2007)

Nikki_elmo10 said:


> rank ?


 

Smelly yucky


He went "smelly yucky" @ the people.


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## hazzard (Jul 11, 2007)

And they call Australia a tolerant country! 

I thankyou for your input junglered-e. I myself have been to India several times and the poverty and desperation can be sickening. We sometimes assume that the whole world goes through schooling like us and should no better. Hopefully one day these peole will travel and half understand the cultural differences you elude to.


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## moosenoose (Jul 11, 2007)

Good read junglered-e, thanks  

If anyone is to blame it's the tourist throwing them money! Sadly poverty like that can only bring sympathy in the form of throwing money at a busker, and let's face it, not too many people out there care to much for snakes anyway to be overly concerned about it.


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## prettyinmetal (Jul 11, 2007)

junglered-e said:


> sorry prettyinmetal, had to ask........... When was the last time u went hungry. if fact have u gone more then a day hungry??? Cos if u have, then u would probably realize that u'r life is a lil more important then the life of a snake (hobby)........ Shoot is a pretty drastic word and it probably proves that speaking is easier than trying to find out why people do what they do......... Anyway, don't mean to offend u......... Just trying to make a point here......... cheers
> 
> JR.......





junglered-e said:


> sorry prettyinmetal, had to ask........... When was the last time u went hungry. if fact have u gone more then a day hungry??? Cos if u have, then u would probably realize that u'r life is a lil more important then the life of a snake (hobby)........ Shoot is a pretty drastic word and it probably proves that speaking is easier than trying to find out why people do what they do......... Anyway, don't mean to offend u......... Just trying to make a point here......... cheers
> 
> JR.......



Hey Junglered, thats ok you havent offended me, after reading your post and doing a bit more research on the matter i do apologize for saying they should be shot, i over react when im angry, but thankyou for pointing that out to me, it has taught me a bit of indian poverty.
And not to jump to conclusions so quickly.

As for you question have i ever gone a day hungry. Yes i have several days actually, not from the poor poverty that the Irulas have to endure. But i was homeless for a long time which meant no food no home, no nothing. it makes you appreciate things alot more, so jumping down the indians throats after watching that video was wrong of me. And as Hazzard stated they do not have the same education that the majority of us have, which is also a big factor i think. 

My point is that yes i have starved, yes i have been homeless, and yes i still do not accept animal cruelty in any form, so in that factor i think we will have to agree to disagree.


But i do thankyou Junglered and Hazzard for pointing out facts that i took for granted before, and jumped to a conclusion.

Have an awesome day, and lets hope not to argue about this anymore, as i have learnt my lesson as im sure you have learnt to accept hot headed people lol.


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## Veredus (Jul 11, 2007)

Weren't there some nasty threats from India over the killing of sick cows?


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## junglered-e (Jul 12, 2007)

Hi prettyinmetal, everyone overreacts when angry, lol including me.... Sorry I even asked that stupid question, good to know that everything is sorted and all's well for u now...... Hope times only keep getting better for u and everyone...... 

Also hazzard, If u ever come to India again then do get in touch with me cos I'd me more than happy to show u, moosenoose and everyone else around, glad I didn't offend anyone and even more good to see that what I posted did help explain a little about my culture and the poverty stricken communities that live there....... Also if there's anything u would like to find out about my country and even more the SNAKES of India please feel free to ask me...... Will b more than happy to contribute....... cheers

JR.........


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## urodacus_au (Jul 13, 2007)

What did the whole act actually achieve? Im still confused. Are there people that will pay to watch a kid antagonise a cobra and vice versa? Regardless of their living conditions its still a stupid thing to do.
As far as using a mutilated snake to cure the childs fear goes, be far safer for the kid if it did fear the snake, considering the fact that an intact cobra will more than likely kill it....

Is this common place and whats the financial and/or cultural reasons behind it?


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## SLACkra (Jul 13, 2007)

> Now all that these tribes are encouraged to catch snakes for is to supply them to institutes where these snakes are milked for their venom and then released back into the wild.... That way both the Irulas and the snakes are benefiting.... Hope this makes u guys happy, sure doe’s make me happy...



I saw a doco about that on animal planet a while back, they had professional snake handlers come in and teach the locals how to milk the venom. they would catch the snakes and keep them in a large jar for a week or so and milk them a few times then release them i believe. It always brings a smile to my face when i see people in developing countries changing the way they do things in a way that is not only better for themselves better for the wildlife.

also i'd have to say if i was starving and really needed money to feed my family and i had to be cruel to an animal to get it, i would. Its a terrible thing for the poor cobra but what about the guys family and that baby. the baby needs food, food costs money and snake charming is just another job.

Andrew


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## Sdaji (Jul 13, 2007)

I really don't care what culture you're talking about, that's just sick. Maybe the people don't understand that what they're doing is wrong, I'll accept that perhaps they are naive enough not to be considered 'bad', just ignorant. I'm a very cold-hearted person in a lot of ways, but all the same, that made my stomach turn  The baby is probably safe enough and probably just thinks the snake is a toy, but the snake will die painfully


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## prettyinmetal (Jul 13, 2007)

junglered-e said:


> Hi prettyinmetal, everyone overreacts when angry, lol including me.... Sorry I even asked that stupid question, good to know that everything is sorted and all's well for u now...... Hope times only keep getting better for u and everyone......
> 
> Also hazzard, If u ever come to India again then do get in touch with me cos I'd me more than happy to show u, moosenoose and everyone else around, glad I didn't offend anyone and even more good to see that what I posted did help explain a little about my culture and the poverty stricken communities that live there....... Also if there's anything u would like to find out about my country and even more the SNAKES of India please feel free to ask me...... Will b more than happy to contribute....... cheers
> 
> JR.........



Ok I do have one question, if the snake charmers only get a couple of dollars a month for charming, is there anything better they could do? I dont mean that in a nasty way im just curious is all? 

And also what sort of snakes do you have show us pics! I would love to see pictures of indian snakes, im new to all this reptile stuff!


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## sk17zn (Jul 13, 2007)

would love to see the parents of that kid would love to punch the **** out of them


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## SLACkra (Jul 13, 2007)

> would love to see the parents of that kid would love to punch the **** out of them



honestly i think thats a pretty stupid statement. the parents are doing that to make sure their child has a job in the future. not to mention so they have a place to sleep and food to eat. So your going to beat the crap out of them because they are doing something to make enough money purley to survive? you want to do something go over there and teach them how to succesfully capture and milk venomous snakes so they can sell the venom for a profit or teach them some other skill so they can make some money.

andrew


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## prettyinmetal (Jul 13, 2007)

SLACkra said:


> honestly i think thats a pretty stupid statement. the parents are doing that to make sure their child has a job in the future. not to mention so they have a place to sleep and food to eat. So your going to beat the crap out of them because they are doing something to make enough money purley to survive? you want to do something go over there and teach them how to succesfully capture and milk venomous snakes so they can sell the venom for a profit or teach them some other skill so they can make some money.
> 
> andrew



thats actually a great idea! going over there and teaching them how to do that! i wonder if alot of people actually do that, cause i know that junglered was saying that the indian government and herp lovers were actually trying to teach some of the tribes how to do exactly that, i wonder what percentage of charmers have actually started doing that? it would be interesting to find out exactly wouldnt it. do you think there is a way you could find out?


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## junglered-e (Jul 14, 2007)

Hi all, just thought I should try my best to answer some of u'r questions...... 

The Irula tribes had no where to go once the ban on keeping snakes as pet's came into affect...... These people were forced to get other job's but since they didn't know anything else except catching snakes for their skin or for charming they found it really hard to find work, even more since India has a larger population and not enough job's..... Fortunately a few well know herpetologists like Rom Whitaker who is an American but has grown up in India, has done a lot to help these people..... They are now either still catching snakes to supply to these institutes or even Rom uses them to track snakes for the International herpetologists who come from all over the world to India... Here's a link that will give u an idea abt Rom's work with Indian snakes and the Irulas... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Whitaker I would guess that this is just a small percentage of the tribe... As for the woman, other self help groups have started to train them on breeding fish and other such things to get them started.... I have attached a link explaining this in a lil more detail.... Also the money they save is in Rupees and so to get a better idea of how much they make in AU$ the exchange rate of one AU$ = 35 Rupees........ http://www.hindu.com/2007/06/27/stories/2007062759360200.htm

urodacus_AU good question... I really don't know how old this video is cos if it is recent then obviously someone has asked the family to demonstrate how they introduce their children to snakes...... Also they would have had to pay for it.... As for the Irulas, any extra money is good money........ 

Andrew, I saw that doc too and thought it was done quit well explaining these people and how things were being done to help them and the snakes..... Like u mentioned in the next post, I recon some of u guys who would much rather beat the parents up, should go to India or other developing and third world countries to help and educate these people abt snakes and respect for life cos if u were punching them then u'r no different from them........

Sdaji, that is true that no culture can be excused for any cruelty……… Unfortunately in India it’s snake charming (now ban) in Spain its bull fighting, and so on………. I was told that u breed and sell a lot of animals each season, so I reckon u should spend a lil of that money to go to India and see or meet these people who put money and their family’s wellbeing b4 the animals pain......... Also if u do decide on doing that let me know cos I’d be more than happy to take u herping with the help of the Irulas in India………. 

Prettyinmetal that is an interesting point….. Even I would like to know how many of the Irula’s have changed their ways and how many haven’t cos illegal snake skin trade still happen’s from India and the Irula's population numbers is not exactly small……. I will speak to Rom and other herpers who are trying to make a difference and let u know what they make of it…… Will add u to my buddy list just so I don’t forget………. 
Like I mentioned in the Introduction forum, I have just come to this country and haven’t brought the pic’s of the snakes I had……. Or even the pic’s of the wild one’s……… What I had back in India, were heaps of sand boa’s, common vine snakes, keelback’s, a few cobras that me and my mate’s rescued from snake charmers and a few more……..



Hope this answers some of u'r questions.......JR.........


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## Python Gal (Jul 14, 2007)

sk17zn said:


> would love to see the parents of that kid would love to punch the **** out of them


 
Thats a harsh statement to make!! If you have read Junglered-e's reply and still think that way, you obviously dont care that people do have to make a living some how. Whether you think its cruel or not. Maybe you should go to india and see what its like to work for stuff all to get stuff all, and worry if you'll be able to feed your family...


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## brandon- g (Jul 14, 2007)

I wonder what kinda cobra it was?


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## gold&black... (Jul 15, 2007)

brandon- g said:


> I wonder what kinda cobra it was?



It's a spectacled cobra(Naja Naja)...... the most common cobra species found in India.... Kills more people each year than any other snake in India.... .......


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## stary boy (Jul 15, 2007)

awww its a happily ever after thread


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## gold&black... (Jul 15, 2007)

.................


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## stary boy (Jul 15, 2007)

I youtubed snake charma and i dont get it - what are the snakes meant to do? just stay still? cause thats all they were doing.... and also someone needs to not only teach them how to milk venom but also how to play the recorder cause omg they suck!


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## stary boy (Jul 15, 2007)

and what the??? what is this one all about 

YouTube - Snake "Charmer" in Thailand


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## gold&black... (Jul 15, 2007)

That's Thailand for u and no, no charmer expects a snake to be docile, so that explain why they sutcher the mouth up......


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## gold&black... (Jul 15, 2007)

would like to know what JR makes of it though...........


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## Stealth_Raptor (Jul 15, 2007)

It depends on the snake charmer. Some have no regard for the health of the snake since they can always get another, others realize that they depend on the snake for a living and they can be trained. The "others" I described, if I remember correctly, usually take exceptionally good care of their cobras and sit on the edge of striking range so they don't get hit. 

I know a few hot herp keepers that said cobras can be trained not to strike at the person caring for them, although I don't know how.


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## junglered-e (Jul 15, 2007)

Stealth_Raptor said:


> It depends on the snake charmer. Some have no regard for the health of the snake since they can always get another, others realize that they depend on the snake for a living and they can be trained. The "others" I described, if I remember correctly, usually take exceptionally good care of their cobras and sit on the edge of striking range so they don't get hit.
> 
> I know a few hot herp keepers that said cobras can be trained not to strike at the person caring for them, although I don't know how.



that is true S-Raptor....... Like any where in the world, there is the good and the bad........ Not all snake charmers in India de-fang the snakes they have and not all snake charmers actually know how to charm a snake.............

I personally don't think a snake can be trained but what I do know is, a snake can be understood......... If u have spent all u'r life around a snake or snakes then u would most probably know what the striking range of a cobra or any other snake is and like I mentioned b4 snake charming is a hereditary thing and the forefathers of these people have done it for ages so I would have to agree with u on what u said............

Python Gal, thank u for saving me the trouble of having to explain my self all over again…. Cheers

JR……..


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## Stealth_Raptor (Jul 15, 2007)

junglered-e said:


> that is true S-Raptor....... Like any where in the world, there is the good and the bad........ Not all snake charmers in India de-fang the snakes they have and not all snake charmers actually know how to charm a snake.............
> 
> I personally don't think a snake can be trained but what I do know is, a snake can be understood......... If u have spent all u'r life around a snake or snakes then u would most probably know what the striking range of a cobra or any other snake is and like I mentioned b4 snake charming is a hereditary thing and the forefathers of these people have done it for ages so I would have to agree with u on what u said............


 
I have seen many snake charmers in my life, and not all of them use venomoids. A lot of them just know how to put the snake into a defensive position and keep their distance far enough so that they are not threatening enough to the snake get tagged.

I never really understood the whole concept of trained cobras. I know they are one of the smartest species of snakes, however like you, I woud think it is more that the cobra's nature is understood by the keeper rather than the snake being trained to recognize the owner.


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## oxyranus (Jul 17, 2007)

Seen that one before totally agree that some parents shouldnt have kids.P


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## lil_ben (Jul 20, 2007)

man i feel like punching his parents right in the head


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