# Don't Feed During Heatwaves...



## pythoninfinite (Jan 18, 2017)

Should have done this 6-8 weeks ago before this long, hot summer began! Pinefamily's comment in another thread prompted me to make this thread. To new keepers, do not feed your snakes before or during heatwaves, or if a heatwave is anticipated in the following few days. Regurgitation of undigested or partially digest food is a real possibility, as the food item rots faster than the snake can digest it. Even if you have AC, the chance of a power outage is real at these times. Don't risk it.

Jamie


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## HiramAbiff (Jan 30, 2017)

Do you have any proof that this actually happens or is it all anecdotal like your theory on DPS?


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## saximus (Jan 31, 2017)

HiramAbiff said:


> Do you have any proof that this actually happens or is it all anecdotal


I've had it happen multiple times in years past before I learnt my lesson (with the help of this same advice from Jamie, if I remember correctly).


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## Stuart (Jan 31, 2017)

HiramAbiff said:


> Do you have any proof that this actually happens or is it all anecdotal like your theory on DPS?


I live in the Top End and can confirm this is a real issue as it affects my reptiles 2 or 3 times each wet season when the temps and humidity rise pending the storms They have never spoken to pythoninfinite so I know they don't do it to just confirm his advice.....

Considering Jamies years of experience and the fact that reptiles can last a bit longer than most without food, I would err on the side of caution and take his advice..


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## pythoninfinite (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks guys. APS has been nicely hate-free lately... maybe it's the hot weather !

Jamie


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## pinefamily (Jan 31, 2017)

Might have to build a wall to keep the haters out....


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## HiramAbiff (Jan 31, 2017)

Thought so, there is no actual proof apart from anecdotal evidence. 
I've never had a snake regurgitate because of a heatwave, and judging by the people who have commented on the facebook group this thread was shared on, neither have they. 

Actually, I should go feed one now (40 degrees here today, 35+ for the next 4 days) and take progress shots everyday to show it's a flawed theory.


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## saximus (Jan 31, 2017)

Do you have a link for the Facebook post? I'd be really interested to read the replies. Or is it a closed group?

It certainly seems to be individual. I've got a couple of Adders, a Woma and a Lacey that were shocking for it but other snakes that have never had an issue. It's just easier to skip them all for a week or two and save the hassle.


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## westernrocky (Jan 31, 2017)

I more often than not feed in the 35-40 heat never had a problem l to would like to see the "hard" evidence rather than a theory. WR


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## Nero Egernia (Jan 31, 2017)

HiramAbiff said:


> Thought so, there is no actual proof apart from anecdotal evidence.
> I've never had a snake regurgitate because of a heatwave, and judging by the people who have commented on the facebook group this thread was shared on, neither have they.
> 
> Actually, I should go feed one now (40 degrees here today, 35+ for the next 4 days) and take progress shots everyday to show it's a flawed theory.





westernrocky said:


> I more often than not feed in the 35-40 heat never had a problem l to would like to see the "hard" evidence rather than a theory. WR



Would that not be classified as anecdotal evidence?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jan 31, 2017)

Dont most facts start out as a theory?
Seems more like a lets bash Jamie session than anything constructive. (Based on my anecdotal theory of course as I don't have evidence to support it beyond a reasonable doubt)


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## pythoninfinite (Jan 31, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Dont most facts start out as a theory?
> Seems more like a lets bash Jamie session than anything constructive. (Based on my anecdotal theory of course as I don't have evidence to support it beyond a reasonable doubt)



It's the hot weather Paul - brings the vens out in force. I saw a RBB on the driveway just yesterday afternoon. Maybe rocket science is losing it's appeal. But these guys NEVER contribute anything constructive, EVER. Morons with nothing to offer except smarmy sarcasm. APS has been pretty free of this sh!t for quite a while. 

Jamie


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## westernrocky (Jan 31, 2017)

At least from my point of view its NOT about bashing anybody. Its a straight out point of interest (question) have l been lucky or is it a husbandy issue with those that have this problem in hot weather, but my first thought was if there is problem with this hot weather feeding, how do the reptiles survive in far western Qld. and the rest of inland Oz during Oct - Feb. so l personally feel its a husbandary issue, but as soon as you ask a legitimate question (imo) you are seen to bashing someone or stirring, at the end of the day is there constructive evidence or is it a theory ?WR.


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## saximus (Jan 31, 2017)

westernrocky said:


> At least from my point of view its NOT about bashing anybody. Its a straight out point of interest (question) have l been lucky or is it a husbandy issue with those that have this problem in hot weather, but my first thought was if there is problem with this hot weather feeding, how do the reptiles survive in far western Qld. and the rest of inland Oz during Oct - Feb. so l personally feel its a husbandary issue, but as soon as you ask a legitimate question (imo) you are seen to bashing someone or stirring, at the end of the day is there constructive evidence or is it a theory ?WR.


Agreed it is most definitely a husbandry issue - the issue being someone allowing their enclosures to get too hot. 

I would argue though that this is a reasonably common and potentially unavoidable issue for plenty of keepers since not everyone has the ability to cool whatever room their animals are housed in. You probably chose the location of your enclosures intelligently whereas I stupidly put mine in a western facing bedroom which gets hammered by the afternoon sun.


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## pythoninfinite (Jan 31, 2017)

westernrocky said:


> At least from my point of view its NOT about bashing anybody. Its a straight out point of interest (question) have l been lucky or is it a husbandy issue with those that have this problem in hot weather, but my first thought was if there is problem with this hot weather feeding, how do the reptiles survive in far western Qld. and the rest of inland Oz during Oct - Feb. so l personally feel its a husbandary issue, but as soon as you ask a legitimate question (imo) you are seen to bashing someone or stirring, at the end of the day is there constructive evidence or is it a theory ?WR.



The issue with many captive snakes is that they are stuck with the environments we keep them in, so if a house heats up astronomically during a day of 42-44C, and the enclosure gets up to those temps for a sustained period of time, reptiles are at very great risk of injury from that heat. Add a large food item which will begin to rot very quickly at those temps and you can have a stressed snake trying to regurgitate a bloated, swollen rodent. In my younger years I lost animals when they tried to regurgitate bloated rats, it may not happen all the time, but I don't take the risk.

Your point about animals in very hot natural environments is well made, but wild reptiles have a much bigger choice about where to shelter when ambient temps are dangerous. Womas, for example, go deep into the sand in dune country, where temps are pretty constant and much cooler than on the surface, and they come out at night when they won't be cooked. The same goes for most wild reptiles, they have a wide range of choices when it comes to shelter. Through the hottest part of the year, many snakes choose to move around at night when temps are less threatening.

As far as evidence goes, other members here have indicated that they have suffered losses due to feeding in very hot conditions.

Jamie


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## Stuart (Jan 31, 2017)




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## dragonlover1 (Jan 31, 2017)

I am fairly new to the snake scene,I have mainly been into dragons and skinks for years.My son and I have about a dozen pythons between us and have not had any adverse reactions even though things are heating up so to speak.I don't disregard the more experienced keepers but I think it is more about husbandry.


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## alichamp (Feb 1, 2017)

Well I for one appreciate the "anecdotal evidence" too. Personally, I have always relied on research and books to learn but that only gets you so far when it comes to reptile keeping. There is so much about this that you can learn only from experience - and for those of us with comparatively little of it the next best option is information banks of those who do have experience. So I am grateful to the long term keepers who put the effort in and share their information with us. 

Unless you can think of someone out there willing to fund randomised control trials for feeding in captivity in high temperatures? And an ethics committee willing to approve it? I can think of some other priorities for scientific research...


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## pythoninfinite (Feb 1, 2017)

My only intention was to advise keepers (especially new keepers) that it is wise to err on the side of caution when feeding animals during heatwaves. I have lost animals in the dim-distant past when I have been at work on 40C+ days and the houses I was living in became too hot. I know of others who have too. Of course it may be fine most of the time, but I prefer to avoid the risk.

It's not a big deal, of course keepers can do whatever they like with their animals, I can only make suggestions based on my own experience.


Jamie


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## pinefamily (Feb 1, 2017)

No Jamie, the reason you posted it in the first place was out of good intentions. I did post a reply to one of the other posts about being better to err on the side of caution regardless, but I think it disappeared with one or two others.


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## Wokka (Feb 1, 2017)

Unfortunately most 'evidence" this hobby has is anecdotal as very little proper research is or has been done. It is so much easier that now the internet has made communication easier and quicker, we don't have to make all the mistakes ourselves and at least we can now benefit from other keepers experience. I prefer to listen to those who have made mistakes and are prepared to share their experience rather than from those who have never had a problem. ... often because they have never had a go.


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## HiramAbiff (Feb 1, 2017)

Now, back to the topic at hand. I have no problem with you having an opinion, we all have them. My problem is you're passing it off as fact without any evidence to back up the claims. I myself like to rely on factual evidence before I make changes to husbandry which has worked for 99% of people over the course of decades.
It might be prudent to add "In my opinion" or "based on what I've personally found" rather than making blanket statements.


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## Stuart (Feb 1, 2017)

Well I don't think removing the offending posts helped out with anything so final posts have been edited and the thread unfortunately closed due to pettiness.


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