# My beef with our gay rights!!



## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

Well some already know and some may not ,I am a mother of a lovely 23 year old Gay man ,and it infuriates me that he along with other gay people ,dont have the same rights as my younger hetro sexual son&daughters have. He pays his taxes ,he votes,he obeys the general laws,basically lives a law abiding life YET is discriminated against because his sexual preference is of the same sex ,so this means he isnt allowed to have an acknowledged ceremony and a fully licenced marriage certificate . 
IT SUX ...Gay people have to abide by all laws in this country and suffer the consequences if they break them ,just like any hetro sexual ..yet gay people are still treated like second class humans when it comes to full filling their life with a partner that they want to commit to for the rest of their days ...

OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET WITH THE TIMES AND STOP ACTING LIKE THE KKK OF THE YESTERYEAR :evil::evil::evil::evil:


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Your the best mum in the world! I hope your son tells you that (if not remind him lol). The laws are slow to change, but the governments eventually weed out the draconian legislation or restrictions. It would cost many votes for our Prime Minister to say she wants to endorse gay marriage, but who would actually believe Julia thinks marriage is only for the hettys? Fat chance!


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

I can understand your frustration, Nat  I'm with you. The only consolation I can offer is that the mindset and attitude that allows that kind of discrimination to still exist is held, in large, by the Babyboomer generation... so, give it a few more years, and when Gen X & Y start to have a lot more sway in the political arena, I believe we will see a lot more balance, and a "radical" change in views. 

The other thing to consider is that it really isn't the piece of paper that makes a marriage. When I picked my partner, I did it with the understanding that he's had two awful marriages, and maybe didn't want to go through that again. If he turned around and said that he didn't want to "get married" but still wanted to live his life with me, we would still have a fantastic relationship. If we went to Bali tomorrow and eloped, we would have as good a relationship tomorrow or the day after as we did yesterday. We would still have spats, and still have adventures. Although it's a frustrating thing for you all, especially because it's not in your control, I would really encourage your son to look at what his relationship/s IS, not what is ISN'T  Hope that's not stepping on toes!


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy that is true its not the paper that is the main issue ..what you maybe unaware of is ,in an accident my sons partner isnt recognised as his next of kin ,where as my husband even if we werent married but defacto ,would still be regarded as next of kin ..so any legal things such as house and property or illness /death the gay partner that is left isnt recognised ..AND THAT IS WRONG OH SO WRONG ..When my son was in hospital and had to have an operation ,his partner had to LIE and say he was his cousin to be allowed in to see him ,as only 'FAMILY' at the time was allowed too ..thats my point.


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## kupper (Nov 17, 2010)

Don't let jay 84 see this thread :lol: there will be an epic post if he does


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## nathancl (Nov 17, 2010)

kupper said:


> Don't let jay 84 see this thread :lol: there will be an epic post if he does


 
hahaha too funny,


RBB is your son hot? lol


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## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 17, 2010)

Regardless of what law states, and even if it was changed tomorrow, there would still be discriminating towards homosexuality for the next few generations. 
This is what makes me really sad.


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## SomeGuy (Nov 17, 2010)

Pretty unfair, I feel for gay people, especially the ones who grow up in country towns, that is where people are the worst to them.

Don't worry gays, if people pick on you because of your sexuality, just threaten to put one in them  I am sure that will scare them away. Note this is a joke as well.


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Jannico said:


> Regardless of what law states, and even if it was changed tomorrow, there would still be discriminating towards homosexuality for the next few generations.
> This is what makes me really sad.


Mate some of the girliest gay guys I know are tough as nails, society has inadvertently made them that way.


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

nathancl said:


> hahaha too funny,
> 
> 
> RBB is your son hot? lol


well he is gorgeous to me  and he is in a relationship with a guy named Daniel ..they have been together for years now ...still going strong...Kupper I am sure JAY would want to voice his views and I welcome it ...any other gay person that feels that they are being held back by our primitive laws JUMP on the wagon ..


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Kristy that is true its not the paper that is the main issue ..what you maybe unaware of is ,in an accident my sons partner isnt recognised as his next of kin ,where as my husband even if we werent married but defacto ,would still be regarded as next of kin ..so any legal things such as house and property or illness /death the gay partner that is left isnt recognised ..AND THAT IS WRONG OH SO WRONG ..When my son was in hospital and had to have an operation ,his partner had to LIE and say he was his cousin to be allowed in to see him ,as only 'FAMILY' at the time was allowed too ..thats my point.



Yes, I totally agree that that's draconian and unacceptable in every way.

Hopefully, there will be changes in the next 10 years. The way I have very unscientifically analysed it, just from looking at my parent's and partner's and my friendship groups, it seems to be (again, as a rough guideline), if you're over 60, you probably discriminate whether you like it or not. In your 40s and 50s, you probably sit just either side of the fence (except you, Nat ). My partner's gen (in his mid-30s) doesn't seem to care either way, and neither does Gen X or Gen Me. So, once the 60-year olds are out of the political scene, I think there will be some changes. Even if it takes another 10 years, your son will still be young enough to enjoy those changes


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## Chris1 (Nov 17, 2010)

i dont really get peoples interest in marriage unless theyre religious anyway, but ur totally right, gay people should have exactly the same rights as the rest of us.
a friends gay sister said a while ago they can register with centrelink as gay (so one cant get benefits if the others working etc) but unless the govt can make extra cash of it theyre not interested.

i read an article in an oldish newsapaper this morning where 2 gay male vultures in a zoo were being seperated and put with females, for gods sake, gayness is as natural in all species as 'non gayness' (words are hard to find before i have my coffee, lol,..) bloody interfereing people,....


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## giggle (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I can understand your frustration, Nat  I'm with you. The only consolation I can offer is that the mindset and attitude that allows that kind of discrimination to still exist is held, in large, by the Babyboomer generation... so, give it a few more years, and when Gen X & Y start to have a lot more sway in the political arena, I believe we will see a lot more balance, and a "radical" change in views.
> 
> The other thing to consider is that it really isn't the piece of paper that makes a marriage. When I picked my partner, I did it with the understanding that he's had two awful marriages, and maybe didn't want to go through that again. If he turned around and said that he didn't want to "get married" but still wanted to live his life with me, we would still have a fantastic relationship. If we went to Bali tomorrow and eloped, we would have as good a relationship tomorrow or the day after as we did yesterday. We would still have spats, and still have adventures. Although it's a frustrating thing for you all, especially because it's not in your control, I would really encourage your son to look at what his relationship/s IS, not what is ISN'T  Hope that's not stepping on toes!



Completely agree Kristy  With both your points.

The babyboomers have a lot to answer for :/ They were the only generation to 'have it good' and have a bit of an ego because of it. How many times have I heard "At your age I had worked for ten years straight, was married and had owned my own home for 9 years!"
Thats nice... your wage used to be $24grand+, houses and land were only $40grand, you didn't need extensive qualifications to get a job and because the population had just expanded there were ample jobs to be had that weren't filled.
My wage is still on $26grand.... but houses now cost half a million, I needed to have three certificates to get this lame job and it took me some stiff competition to get it because all the babyboomers are still holding on to their high paying jobs at the top!

Bah hum bug! lol

Aaaaaanyway.... 

If you son wants to get married, there are still people who will do it  If I were you I would get him to have a ceremony and focus on his big day, rather than on the specifics of the paperwork he will need to fill out  It just gets recognized by law as a legal partnership... technically its just wording right now that is probably getting to your son. They can legalize their union.... but they have to put a different label on it.  A bit rude.... but its a decent compromise for now until the majority of our voting population are no longer baby boomers. On the other hand as bigoted as my father is, I think he would still support gay marriage  It would just take a very brave polly to get it changed especially while their 'power' hangs in the balance.


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## LizardLady (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Kristy that is true its not the paper that is the main issue ..what you maybe unaware of is ,in an accident my sons partner isnt recognised as his next of kin ,where as my husband even if we werent married but defacto ,would still be regarded as next of kin ..so any legal things such as house and property or illness /death the gay partner that is left isnt recognised ..AND THAT IS WRONG OH SO WRONG ..When my son was in hospital and had to have an operation ,his partner had to LIE and say he was his cousin to be allowed in to see him ,as only 'FAMILY' at the time was allowed too ..thats my point.



Hi Nat! This is a brilliant thread, I applaud you for bringing it up! 

I would just like to add to this particular post of yours... In some states (SA for example), the government are now FINALLY recognising De Facto relationships across the board - including same sex relationships. Although this step has taken many years (and lots of blood, sweat and tears), it is a small step in the right direction. 

I'm not gay - just very happy to have friends who are - but have been a 'quiet' advocate for gay rights for a number of years. I sincerely hope that this legislative step will induce the next one...

Best,
Carolyn


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## giggle (Nov 17, 2010)

My mother paid a fortune to import a dog... it was absolutely beautiful... and it ended up being gay LOL It happens  
The majority of animals especially female animals have at least bisexual tendencies anyway.

But its not about that, its about peoples comfort levels... and while gen x and gen y are comfortable with the idea... a lot of baby boomers are still uncomfortable with it.



Chris1 said:


> i dont really get peoples interest in marriage unless theyre religious anyway, but ur totally right, gay people should have exactly the same rights as the rest of us.
> a friends gay sister said a while ago they can register with centrelink as gay (so one cant get benefits if the others working etc) but unless the govt can make extra cash of it theyre not interested.
> 
> i read an article in an oldish newsapaper this morning where 2 gay male vultures in a zoo were being seperated and put with females, for gods sake, gayness is as natural in all species as 'non gayness' (words are hard to find before i have my coffee, lol,..) bloody interfereing people,....


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

A very wise babyboomer once told me, when complaining about the younger generation, "The older generation act as though they had nothing do with it"  

This definitely didn't come out of my father's mouth.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

RBB you are AMAZING. It was only yesterday i was considering starting a poll on here to see who was in favour of gay marriage equal rights!

I find it appalling and an absolute embarrassment that Australia is so far behind the times. So many countries now have changed their legislation to recognise gay marriage. Mexico, Argentina, Canada, UK, etc etc etc...... even CUBA has just apologised to the gay community for their treatment during the communist times!

CATCH UP AUSTRALIA !!!!!!!!

For the people who say that marriage should be between man and woman as it is stated in the bible...........

Why are athiests allowed to marry? why are buddhists allowed to marry? These people as well as many other religions DO NOT believe in the bible, yet are allowed to declare hteir relationship under the sanctity of marriage. Marriage is now so far removed from religion. I would not want to get married in a church anyway, how hypocritical they are.

The pope just came out an said only a few weeks ago that HIV/AIDS is gods punishment to gays. *** ?!?!?!?!?! Burn in hell you sadistic old man! It was also said by him that elderly priests who are found to have been pedophiles in their younger years should not be punished !!!!! Well if people are taking advice from this man then god help humanity!!!

There have been quite a few labour MP's who have now raised their voice to say they do not oppose gay marriage.... this is definitely a step in the right direction. 

For those who are interested, there are GAY RIGHTS RALLIES in many capital cities this saturday the 20th november! Go and show your support.... PLEASE.


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## kupper (Nov 17, 2010)

Told you .it was going to be epic :lol:


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

kupper said:


> Told you .it was going to be epic :lol:


AND I SAY BRING ON THE RAINBOW RIBBONS AND GLITTER BALLOONS ......go for it you guys n girls get your word out there and believe me you have some BIG HETRO SEXUAL SUPPORTERS in your corner now xxxxxxx


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## PhilK (Nov 17, 2010)

giggle said:


> My mother paid a fortune to import a dog... it was absolutely beautiful... and it ended up being gay LOL It happens
> The majority of animals especially female animals have at least bisexual tendencies anyway.


 Where on earth did you get that from?

Oh yeah.. gay rights = good, pope = fruitloop.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

YouTube - Joel Burns tells gay teens "it gets better" http://www.joelburns.com

Please watch this video....... it is because of the close minded people who will not legalise gay marriage and allow us to be equals, that then causes this bullying.

Ultimately this leads to drastic action by these poor young individuals 

PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO. IT IS VERY MOVING.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> AND I SAY BRING ON THE RAINBOW RIBBONS AND GLITTER BALLOONS ......go for it you guys n girls get your word out there and believe me you have some BIG HETRO SEXUAL SUPPORTERS in your corner now xxxxxxx



RBB i really applaud you. Your son is so lucky.

BIG HUGS to you.


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

OMG Nat this has been done to death, use the search function already!

I don't get it either. The majority of people i talk to either don't care or are in favor. So what's the problem?


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

My friend works at the UN Headquarters in New York....... this was his facebook status update from earlier this morning!!!

''Today I watched the international community endorse the summary, arbitrary and extrajudicial killing of people on the basis of sexual orientation. Who will save us?''

This was his status update from 27th Oct.

''can you guess which two nations today protested in favour of ensuring that the extrajudicial killing of people on the basis of sexual orientation is not treated as a crime?''
27 October at 15:29 · Like · Comment

And do you know who those 2 nations are ?!?!?!?!?!?!

Syria and the Holy See (The Vatican).

Oh what a lovely religion to be a part of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

People that have a sit on the fence view or even against view about GAY rights etc...wether you dont understand 'HOW ONE COULD BE GAY' or the ole classic 'THEY COULD BE STRAIGHT IF THEY TRIED" attitude /belief ..TRY it from a PARENT view imagine your beautiful loved baby son/daughter who melted your heart when their tiny little hands grabbed your finger and you were their 'hero' in their life while they were little ,How do you turn your back on your own flesh and blood because of who they are ?If your child has grown up to be a respectable law abiding person and the only difference is their sexuality ,how do you turn away from them? Their desires of being with the same sex person is the same desire as you and I have with being with an opposite sex ..it would be like FORCING yourself to be gay by asking them to be straight.You know in yourself your hetrosexual and its the norm to you ,well to gay people its the norm to them ..its not a freak feeling its not a fad ITS WHO THEY ARE and acceptence is so much more of an answer then fighting against nature..

So next time you have thoughts about gay people ,put yourself in thier shoes and although most times your rights are the same as others ,your personal right is shunned upon and looked down against ..how would you like it?

This is what was sent to me by email from my own CATHOLIC mother in law (who must have forgotten that she has a gay grandson) and my reply 

_The name of the book is Conversations with God... James Dobson talked about this book twice this week.It is devastating. Parents, churches and Christian schools need to be aware of it. Please pass this information on to church/e-mail addresses, Parents, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, friends.

Please pay special attention not only to what your kids watch on TV, in movie theaters, on the internet, and the music they listen to, but also be alert regarding the books they read.

Two particular books are,Conversations with God and Conversations with God for Teens, written by Neale D. Walsch.They sound harmless enough by their titles alone. The books have been on the New York Times best sellers list for a number of weeks, and they make truth of the statement, "Don't judge a book by its cover or title."
_
_The author purports to answer various questions asked by kids using the "voice of God".. However, the"answers" that he gives are not Bible-based and go against the very infallible word of God. For instance (and Iparaphrase), when a girl asks the question__"Why am I a lesbian?"His answer is that she was 'born that way' because of genetics (just as you were born right-handed, with brown eyes, etc.).__Then he tells her to go out and "celebrate" her differences.
__
__Another girls poses the question__"I am living with my boyfriend. My parents say that I should marry him because I am living in sin. Should I marry him?"
__
__His reply is,__"Who are you sinning against? Not me, because you have done nothing wrong..."
__
__Another question asks about God's forgiveness of sin.__His reply "I do not forgive anyone because there is nothing to forgive. There is no such thing as right or wrong and that is what I have been trying to tell everyone, do not judge people. People have chosen to judge one another and this is wrong, because the rule is "'judge not lest ye be judged."_

_Not only are these books the false doctrine of the devil, but in some instances quote (in error) the Word of God.

And the list goes on. These books (and others like it) are being sold to school children through__(The Scholastic Book Club),__and we need to be aware of what is being fed to our children.

Our children are under attack.. So I pray that you be sober and vigilant about teaching your children the Word of God, and guarding their exposure to worldly mediums, because our adversary, the devil, roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). We know that lions usually hunt for the slowest, weakest and YOUNGEST of its prey.

__Pass this on to every Believer you know. God bless! And, if you are in doubt, check out the books yourself. CATHOLICS ARE AGAINST THESE BOOKS!!! _


_my response back to this email _
As a mother of a gay son ...what am I suppose to believe? ..that #1 he was born that way and he is who he is and should be able to be true to himself and live the life he feels is just right for him ...or The devil has a hand in it and he will be condemmed to hell for being gay?
I take the 1st option ...If God loves each and everyone of us ..then he would love gays and lesbians too ...IF this is not something GOD would do ..then I dont want a part of it either ,because he is my flesh and blood and by loving him for who he is makes me as guilty as my son for being gay ....
HYPOCRISY should be added to the 10 commandments ...
The God I believe in loves not only my hetro sexual self but my GAY son too.


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> OMG Nat this has been done to death, use the search function already!
> 
> I don't get it either. The majority of people i talk to either don't care or are in favor. So what's the problem?


GORDO it hasnt been done enough cause the laws have not changed yet!!!


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

RBB - what was your mothers reply?!?!?!?


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> because our adversary, the devil, roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). We know that lions usually hunt for the slowest, weakest and YOUNGEST of its prey.



Don't forget lions hunt the OLD, ARTHRITIC, and most IMMOBILE prey, as well... Watch out, babyboomers!


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Don't forget lions hunt the OLD, ARTHRITIC, and most IMMOBILE prey, as well... Watch out, babyboomers!



Hun some of the worst gay bashers are from our gen, we need to keep working on stomping out homophobia throughout society.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree. It ****** me off that two gay guys who live together can both get first home owners grants but combined my wife and I can only get it once... Let them have the same crappy laws that hetro couples have to deal with...


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## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> RBB - what was your mothers reply?!?!?!?


ha ha it was my mother in law ...and she said sorry she didnt realise that I would take it that way !!! WHAT THE FLYING DUCK!! how else was I suppose to take it ...anyway we dont have a great relationship now ..so it was really no surprise


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> Hun some of the worst gay bashers are from our gen, we need to keep working on stomping out homophobia throughout society.



Where did I say there wasn't more work to be done?

The only place I have encountered the same bigamist attitudes in both the younger gens and the older, with the same degree of ferocity, was when I was living rural. 

The other area I see that it would be a real problem would be in school-aged kids, and I believe that is more a problem with Gen Me's lack of respect and bullying than actual feelings of bigotry towards their gay classmates. 

Of course we need to keep working towards eradicating homophobia from society as a whole, all gens included. I would still argue that the greater political damage has been/is being done by the prevailing, stubborn attitudes of the older gen.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I agree. It ****** me off that two gay guys who live together can both get first home owners grants but combined my wife and I can only get it once... Let them have the same crappy laws that hetro couples have to deal with...



I would rather have one home owners grant and equal rights thanks.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Openly Gay Student Defends Teacher at School Board Meeting

Disgusting that a teacher is suspended for disciplining a bully!


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## nathancl (Nov 17, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> Hun some of the worst gay bashers are from our gen, we need to keep working on stomping out homophobia throughout society.



i would agree with this statement also. some people who are my age are worse than people my mothers age.


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## pythrulz (Nov 17, 2010)

Australian laws are gradually changing very slowly Gays are geting more rights however because of our societies narrowmindness they will probably never be fully accepted as in parts of Asia having a brother and sister that are gay I wish for more understanding and compasion just because a person has a same sex relationship does not make him/her a strange maybe sifferent in there prefrences


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

And I'd like the same rights are the eastern state reptile keepers. Somethings just aren't fair..... As for the current topic I don't care if gay's get married or not. I do feel that "married couples" are at a disadvantage in Australian society though.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> And I'd like the same rights are the eastern state reptile keepers. Somethings just aren't fair..... As for the current topic I don't care if gay's get married or not. I do feel that "married couples" are at a disadvantage in Australian society though.



Quite easy then really.... support equal marriage rights and then you won't feel so hard done by and disadvantaged lol


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> And I'd like the same rights are the eastern state reptile keepers. Somethings just aren't fair..... As for the current topic I don't care if gay's get married or not. I do feel that "married couples" are at a disadvantage in Australian society though.


 
Or get a divorce??


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 17, 2010)

well, my dad is bi and polyamorous,so im on his side, even though he doesnt believe in huge weddings and the word "marriage", he would rather a hippy, life partner ceremony, thingo, he is "hippy marry'd' to a bi woman
and i think that, yes gays and lesbians should be able to marry, why shouldnt they, i think the main reason that they can't isnt that everyone hates them, it the bible, christian people arent allowed to be gay, it's "against gods will" or whatever, and originally marriage was, and usually still is, a christian sacrament, so they wouldnt allow a gay couple to have this sacrament, as its against there religion, just my 2 cents anyway


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## moosenoose (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't want to know what my mates get up to in bed, so why should I care what gay people do?? That's the only difference in my books. Each to their own if that's the way you swing


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Openly Gay Student Defends Teacher at School Board Meeting
> 
> Disgusting that a teacher is suspended for disciplining a bully!


thats just un cool
but i do think that kid grew up too fast, but i guess he has had to, being bully'd so much


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## PicklePants (Nov 17, 2010)

acceptance and discrimination are learned behaviours

love is universal.


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## ezekiel86 (Nov 17, 2010)

Top mum !!!


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## Scleropages (Nov 17, 2010)

You just wanted to use "Beef" and "Gay" in the same sentence!


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Quite easy then really.... support equal marriage rights and then you won't feel so hard done by and disadvantaged lol



Nope doesnt fix that defacto couples still get more benifits.


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## -Peter (Nov 17, 2010)

jeezuz Nat, If you keep this up I'm going to have to put you in my top people to know list. Can I be your Facebook friend?


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## Fireflyshuffle (Nov 17, 2010)

I also disagree with their decision. I am also gay and have been with my girlfriend now 5 years next month. At the end of the day we don't let it get the better of us. Afterall, marriage most of the time these days is a ring on your finger, with a bit of paper right?!? Either way i guess why let the government ruin it? We just keep on chugging. If we want marriage, we can always go overseas. One day Australia will wake up to themselves.


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## mungus (Nov 17, 2010)

I WAS VERY old school regarding views on Gays........ [ I could handle gay females........lol ]
Its amazing how getting married to a very special person and growing a brain can change your narrow minded views in life.....
I now do have gay male friends and dont actually think of their sexual prefrence but what good friends they are to me and my wife.


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## da_donkey (Nov 17, 2010)

ive said it before and i'll say it again....

I support gay marrige, but only if both chicks are hot.


donks


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## FAY (Nov 17, 2010)

hahaha I don't believe in marriage full stop..lol

This 'till death us do part'. I may sound mean, but if my partner becomes a cranky, nasty, demanding old man, I am walking.


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## da_donkey (Nov 17, 2010)

FAY said:


> but if my partner becomes a cranky, nasty, demanding old man, I am walking.


 

lol Fayse....what do you mean "if"


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## siouxie (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> The pope just came out an said only a few weeks ago that HIV/AIDS is gods punishment to gays. *** ?!?!?!?!?! Burn in hell you sadistic old man! It was also said by him that elderly priests who are found to have been pedophiles in their younger years should not be punished !!!!!


 
are you sure you are not just making this up and slandering the old man




Jay84 said:


> There have been quite a few labour MP's who have now raised their voice to say they do not oppose gay marriage.... this is definitely a step in the right direction.


 
there's been quite a few labor mp's who have been paedophiles, milton orkopolous, bob collins etc, this doesn't mean it should be ok for others,

very poor arguments from someone with a vested and passionate interest.


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## Jk888 (Nov 17, 2010)

im just going to say lol


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

HAhaha i've been waiting for someone like you to wade in.

It was actually Norway's Catholic Bishop who recently made the claim recently, but the pope has been conspicuous in his absence when he should be standing out against this kind of bigotry.

There's a difference between illegal activities and legal activities, comparing a peadophile to two adults in a relationship is not a fair comparison. Besides labour MP's doing whatever isn't an argument, it's an observation of one segment of our population which is usually the more conservative side of our community.



siouxie said:


> are you sure you are not just making this up and slandering the old man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

There was something on the news recently about getting an act past in NSW to let gay-couples adopt, but the only way they possibly could get it through was to allow church groups to discriminate against gay-couples... leaving non-church based adoption agencies the only place they would be able to adopt thru.

The churches have way too much control in Australia and around the world.
Even though our head of state appears to be "against" gay-marriage, having a Atheist running the country i still think gives the best chance of such reforms.

-Pope Benedict has put pedophilia on the same level as 'attempted' ordination of women to the priesthood

^ messed up!


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

as christian i do not like the idea of gay marriage, as i believe it was created for hetrosexual couples. before anyone abuses me I do not have any issues with homosexuals at all, I beleive that giving these people the right to marriage is dare i say a little insulting, what next? If i want to marry and have sex with my horse then this will be ok to?


----------



## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 17, 2010)

No...cause the horse has morally and ethically has no say in the matter. Two gay males or two gay females have that choice. Marriage or the idea of marriage pre-dates Christianity anyway. Also that was thousands of years ago when many other facets of life that where common then are now considered immoral and unethical in western society such slavery and equality (although equality is part of the debate lol). 

I am a christian as well so meh. Being christian, or having a spirituality has nothing to do with it as well unless your a fundamentalist or extremest in which case I wouldn't talk to you. Also if you are christian or religious in any way should you not be accepting of other people/cultures/beliefs including the notion of gay marriage? 

Thanks for posting in a polite way and I hope I did the same.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm going to pretend that you didn't compare gay marriage to having sex with a horse. 

Apart from that, are you trying to say that gay marriage is insulting to the christian idea of marriage?



Wallypod said:


> as christian i do not like the idea of gay marriage, as i believe it was created for hetrosexual couples. before anyone abuses me I do not have any issues with homosexuals at all, I beleive that giving these people the right to marriage is dare i say a little insulting, what next? If i want to marry and have sex with my horse then this will be ok to?


----------



## buck (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> as christian i do not like the idea of gay marriage, as i believe it was created for hetrosexual couples. before anyone abuses me I do not have any issues with homosexuals at all, I beleive that giving these people the right to marriage is dare i say a little insulting, what next? If i want to marry and have sex with my horse then this will be ok to?



In my opinion you clearly do have an issue with homosexuals. How could you even consider drawing an analogoy between gay marriage and beastiality? I realy do feel sorry for you. You are entitled to your opinion but unfortunately I think it is a very ill informed one.

For what it's worth......I was raised Catholic. Went to a Catholic primary and High School. I am well aware of the "Church's stance" on homosexuality. The issue I have is my brother is Gay, and is probably the most decent and well adjusted person I know but is seen as a sinner for *being true to himself *yet the catholic church has been protecting priests who have sexually assualted young boys for years.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I'm going to pretend that you didn't compare gay marriage to having sex with a horse.


 
to be fair on the bloke, I'd put sodomy and bestiality in the same basket too.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> waruikazi said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to pretend that you didn't compare gay marriage to having sex with a horse. QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

buck common mistake.. its not beastiality... it's bestiality...


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Why? How are they the same?


 
I just find them both offensive and un natural. But I have no problem with other people doing what they want to do with their bodies.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Jannico said:


> define sodomy lol



Anal sex


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## buck (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> buck common mistake.. its not beastiality... it's bestiality...


 
Yeah was never confident of that spelling...... though am surprised that you are.:lol:


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

buck said:


> Yeah was never confident of that spelling...... though am surprised that you are.:lol:


 
We covered it in a law class once. Ever since I've picked up most people say "beast" thinking it's correct because of the animal factor. But they are simply uneducated  :lol:


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Jannico said:


> No...cause the horse has morally and ethically has no say in the matter. Two gay males or two gay females have that choice. Marriage or the idea of marriage pre-dates Christianity anyway. Also that was thousands of years ago when many other facets of life that where common then are now considered immoral and unethical in western society such slavery and equality (although equality is part of the debate lol).
> 
> I am a christian as well so meh. Being christian, or having a spirituality has nothing to do with it as well unless your a fundamentalist or extremest in which case I wouldn't talk to you. Also if you are christian or religious in any way should you not be accepting of other people/cultures/beliefs including the notion of gay marriage?
> 
> Thanks for posting in a polite way and I hope I did the same.


 i do believe that my spiritual beliefs have eveything to do with it without me being fundamentalist as my beliefs have formed my opinions on this subject, i am accepting of people regardless of sexual choice, does not mean i agree with it. and to everyone else who wants to flame me on this this is my belief just putting it out there, not putting any one down just saying i think its wrong. probs went a bit far with the horse thing i am sorry.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> to be fair on the bloke, I'd put sodomy and bestiality in the same basket too.


 thanks snowman


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

buck said:


> In my opinion you clearly do have an issue with homosexuals. How could you even consider drawing an analogoy between gay marriage and beastiality? I realy do feel sorry for you. You are entitled to your opinion but unfortunately I think it is a very ill informed one.
> 
> For what it's worth......I was raised Catholic. Went to a Catholic primary and High School. I am well aware of the "Church's stance" on homosexuality. The issue I have is my brother is Gay, and is probably the most decent and well adjusted person I know but is seen as a sinner for *being true to himself *yet the catholic church has been protecting priests who have sexually assualted young boys for years.


 
the church you speak of isnt MY church, and has nothing to do with "sin" i just think it is unnatural. from an evolutionist view doesnt make much sense either as 2 of the same gender cant breed. also from a social science point of view a child needs a healthy example of both male and female as parents not 2 of the same gender. save your pity for some one else.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I'm going to pretend that you didn't compare gay marriage to having sex with a horse.
> 
> Apart from that, are you trying to say that gay marriage is insulting to the christian idea of marriage?


 
in a long winded nut shell yes


----------



## moosenoose (Nov 17, 2010)

Scleropages said:


> You just wanted to use "Beef" and "Gay" in the same sentence!



:lol: :lol: I was wondering the same thing myself


----------



## mungus (Nov 17, 2010)

Its amazing how religion is always bought into a debate.
No religion, no wars !! simple.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> in a long winded nut shell yes



What about Hindus or athiests who get married? DO they insult the idea of a Christian marriage?


----------



## jordanmulder (Nov 17, 2010)

mungus said:


> Its amazing how religion is always bought into a debate.
> No religion, no wars !! simple.


sorry just to pull you up on that, what about on ww1 and WW2?


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

squeal said:


> Wallypod people don't "choose" their sexuality. I am assuming that you, like myself, didn't choose to be straight
> we just are. The only thing that people can "choose" is to live a lie or be true to themselves and others.



That's a risky statement... If sexual preference is pre determend then pedophiles would be able to use that as an excuse for being attracted to minors.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> That's a risky statement... If sexual preference is pre determend then pedophiles would be able to use that as an excuse for being attracted to minors.


 
People choose not to have sex for many different reasons... Sexual preference being predetermined doesn't give pedophiles an excuse to CHOOSE to have sex with minors.


----------



## cris (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Why are athiests allowed to marry?


 
I have no idea, i think it should be banned.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

If it's not then why don't you choose to be gay?



Snowman said:


> That's a risky statement... If sexual preference is pre determend then pedophiles would be able to use that as an excuse for being attracted to minors.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Same reason I choose to barrick for collingwood  It's just a prefrence. I don't care either way as I belive in live and let live. Where is the scientific proof for being born with a certain sexual preference??? It's all irrelavant anyway, there is no restriction on gays or straight people owning reptiles so lets rejoice at that


----------



## Flaviruthless (Nov 17, 2010)

How is homosexuality unnatural? There have been many examples of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom, including a beetle species that uses it to increase the chances of fathering young (I can't remember the exact species but am happy to look up every example I can find if it's needed). 
I am an atheist myself and have never had a problem with people being gay. How would all of the heterosexual people feel if a minority of people declared that what heterosexuals were doing was unnatural when you had never known anything else? What I don't understand is why some people feel it necessary to compare homosexuality to degrading acts between people and animals and disgusting acts between adults and children. In a normal homosexual relationship, who is getting hurt? Two consenting adults wish to be together and they should be recognised. They AREN'T coming into your home and broadcasting it or molesting your children or ruining your life - they merely wish to express their own love for each other and I think it is horrible that so many people deny them this basic right - to love. Surely we as a society can only gain from accepting that people can love people of the same sex.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> People choose not to have sex for many different reasons... Sexual preference being predetermined doesn't give pedophiles an excuse to CHOOSE to have sex with minors.


 
So you think they are born attracted to minors then???? interesting


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

Well said, Rahni. I can't see the negatives of allowing gay marriage, either.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> So you think they are born attracted to minors then???? interesting


 
I honestly don't know, Snowman. It is one theory that's been put forward. But, it still does not incorporate the human ability to choose one's actions.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

squeal said:


> I am a firm believer that sexuality is, to use you word, pre determined. Why would somebody choose to be gay
> with the bigotry and hatred towards homosexuality. Also as a straight man did you have any gay thoughts before
> you chose "straightness" or have you never had to make a choice and always been attracted to the opposite sex.


 
Like I said I'm a Collingwood supporter. I CHOSE that team and never thought about following another. Was I pre determent by some unknown gene to never make the choice to follow soccer or some other AFL team??? There is to date no scientific evidence that we are born with a specific sexual persuasion.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I honestly don't know, Snowman. It is one theory that's been put forward. But, it still does not incorporate the human ability to choose one's actions.



I wasn't talking about their actions.. just their sexual preference. Not all pedafiles have had sex with a minor. Some have been found by having images on their computers etc.... But if you insist that were just born that way, can you blame them for looking at images???


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I honestly don't know, Snowman. It is one theory that's been put forward. But, it still does not incorporate the human ability to choose one's actions.



People who abuse children often were abused themsleves as children. There is alot of research that suggests that the actions by peadophiles is often more about power relationships than it is about sexuality. I'm not about to argue that it isn't about sexual gratification though. 

I despise the fact that people are comparing peadophilia to homosexuality. They are entirely different.


----------



## cris (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> So you think they are born attracted to minors then???? interesting


 
I would be suprised if it isnt partly genetic, although environmental factors would play a role, i dont think a normal person just makes a decision one day that they have a sexual preferance of children, some people call themselves animal lovers i dont think they choose to be like that either.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I wasn't talking about their actions.. just their sexual preference. Not all pedafiles have had sex with a minor. Some have been found by having images on their computers etc.... But if you insist that were just born that way, can you blame them for looking at images???



You can because they have assisted in abusing someone. You cannot compare the actions of two concenting adults in a loving relationship to someone who abuses children.


----------



## tc2233 (Nov 17, 2010)

Personally I think that gays should be allowed to be married. Its starting to become an everyday thing in life. My teacher is a lesbian, and several guys I know quite well are gay. There would be at least 10 people at school that are gay.
They do get discriminated on quite often, especially in the change rooms where there are some ********s in my year who go and partyboy them and impersonate their gay personalities and ask what anal feels like. When we do school activities where girls and boys are split up the gay guys dont usually dont want to go with the boys an the teachers wont let them go with the girls rooms they ended up being picked on when they stay with the guys. Even the teachers laugh at them when they don't know the rules for footy or cricket.

My sister is an acrobat and trains with a lot of gay guys. One of the gay guys (he is 17) announced to his family that he is gay and now his dad and brother dont speak to him anymore and dont want anything to do with him any more. I think thats a bit harsh.

Sure it is a good idea to introduce gay marriage but there still needs to be a lot to be done with the way gays are treated at school and in the public.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I despise the fact that people are comparing peadophilia to homosexuality. They are entirely different.


 
I was simply comparing peoples sexual preferences. And whether or not we are born with said preferences.
To completely rule out life experiences contributing to the end result would be impossible in my opinion.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I was simply comparing peoples sexual preferences.



You seem pretty keen to not let it be compared to heterosexuality. Why is that?


----------



## tc2233 (Nov 17, 2010)

Another thing to add. I think gay couples shouldnt be allowed to adopt children or whatever way they end up having children like this guy pregnant man | tag | HollywoodGrind


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> You can because they have assisted in abusing someone. You cannot compare the actions of two concenting adults in a loving relationship to someone who abuses children.



Not talkning about actions.. we are talking about whether they are born attracted to minors.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> You seem pretty keen to not let it be compared to heterosexuality. Why is that?


I have no problem comparing it to heterosexuality. I have gay, lesbian and straight friends and family... my point was to illustrate if you insist someone is born with a certain preference then it affects all area’s of sexual preference. I love brunettes with fair skin… was I born that way or was it only after seeing Megan Fox in transformers


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Not talkning about actions.. we are talking about whether they are born attracted to minors.



I was responding to you questioning whether people could be blamed for looking at sexualized pictures of children. That is an action and yes you can be blamed for that. When talking about peadophiles, which shouldn't even have been brought up when discussing gay rights, there is some research that says it is environmental and there is some research that says it isn't. Either way there is no research to suggest it is a 'choice.'


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> I have no problem comparing it to heterosexuality. I have gay, lesbian and straight friends and family... my point was to illustrate if you insist someone is born with a certain preference then it affects all area’s of sexual preference. I love brunettes with fair skin… was I born that way or was it only after seeing Megan Fox in transformers




I'm not insisting that sexuality is predertermined. I am insisting that it is not a choice, like you choosing collingwood.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

squeal said:


> Sorry Snowy but I still firmly believe we are. I haven't once had to wrestle with being straight or gay. I can't
> remember even making a conscious decision about being straight I just am. When the hormones kicked in girls
> just suddenly became interesting. Saying you chose Collingwood, another disturbing topic there, isn't the same.


Hahaha I can repsect you opinion Clem. And I have no problem with anyones view as long as they accept mine too. But you say when the hormones kicked in girls just became interesting. Can you tell me that absolutely none of that instinct isn't from life experience and environment. IE of seeing girls on TV, watching your parents, etc etc.
The amount of homsexual activity in US prisons is certainly a factor of environment.


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I'm not insisting that sexuality is predertermined. I am insisting that it is not a choice, like you choosing collingwood.




But me chosing collingwood is a choice otherwise I wouldn't be able to say I "chose" to barrick for collingwood


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

siouxie said:


> are you sure you are not just making this up and slandering the old man
> 
> My apologies..... it was actually the Belgian Bishop. Does this make much of a difference to my argument?
> 
> ...


 
It appears your refute is very poor???


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> What about Hindus or athiests who get married? DO they insult the idea of a Christian marriage?


all i am saying is it should be between man and women.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Rahni29 said:


> How is homosexuality unnatural? There have been many examples of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom, including a beetle species that uses it to increase the chances of fathering young (I can't remember the exact species but am happy to look up every example I can find if it's needed).
> I am an atheist myself and have never had a problem with people being gay. How would all of the heterosexual people feel if a minority of people declared that what heterosexuals were doing was unnatural when you had never known anything else? What I don't understand is why some people feel it necessary to compare homosexuality to degrading acts between people and animals and disgusting acts between adults and children. In a normal homosexual relationship, who is getting hurt? Two consenting adults wish to be together and they should be recognised. They AREN'T coming into your home and broadcasting it or molesting your children or ruining your life - they merely wish to express their own love for each other and I think it is horrible that so many people deny them this basic right - to love. Surely we as a society can only gain from accepting that people can love people of the same sex.


no one is saying they cant love each other just that they should not marry


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> all i am saying is it should be between man and women.



Yeah I think the christian view is that it doesnt fit with their plan of creation.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> But me chosing collingwood is a choice otherwise I wouldn't be able to say I "chose" to barrick for collingwood



Sorry missed out a word. 

I am insisting that it is not a choice, *not *like you choosing collingwood.

That better?


----------



## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> There is to date no scientific evidence that we are born with a specific sexual persuasion.



[video=youtube;MHDCAllQgS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDCAllQgS0[/video]

Homosexual behavior due to genetics and environmental factors | e! Science News

THE GENETICS OF HOMOSEXUALITY | Serendip's Exchange

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US researchers find evidence that homosexuality linked to genetics | World news | guardian.co.uk

Welcome to the 21st century.

I don't think religion should get much of a say in this. My partner and I are both atheists, we've been together for 5 years or so, if we wanted to get married it most certainly wouldn't be in a church, I have no interest in having my relationship "blessed" by what I consider slightly crazy people.
Marriage stopped being a purely Christian tradion a VERY ling time ago, if indeed it ever really was. We simply want the same governmental and legal protections offered to heterosexual couples. Pretty bloody simple.

My man and I would love to start a family, but right now only one of us could legally be considered the child's parent/guardian. If the legal parent dies when the child is 12 years old, that child ends up in foster care any other number of state systems, under Australian law the surviving 'parent' is a complete stranger.

And for people banging on about the 'sanctity' of marriage - So it's okay for Rush Limbaugh to be on his 5th freaking wife, but if I wanna marry my fella suddenly that's an attack on marriage?.

If I'm having an especially militant day I see 2 options.

1. Ban divorce between straight people. If you can't walk the walk don't talk the talk.

2. Me and my gay brethren get to pay lower taxes. Reduced rights for reduced responsibilities. Seems only fair.

Failing that I suppose we could move to Mexico and get married. Cheap sangria and sunny weather.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> all i am saying is it should be between man and women.


 
Whooah so your a Mormon? One man, several women?


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 17, 2010)

giggle said:


> Completely agree Kristy  With both your points.
> 
> The babyboomers have a lot to answer for :/ They were the only generation to 'have it good' and have a bit of an ego because of it. How many times have I heard "At your age I had worked for ten years straight, was married and had owned my own home for 9 years!"
> Thats nice... your wage used to be $24grand+, houses and land were only $40grand, you didn't need extensive qualifications to get a job and because the population had just expanded there were ample jobs to be had that weren't filled.
> ...



Yes,,"giggle" and how much education did you BOTHER to get ? Nearly all Baby Boomers had a job within a few days of leaving school
And the VAST majority weren't still cruzing at their parents home at 25+ making excuses how hard life is while talking on their iphone and about getting "smashed/wiped-out on the weekend...personally l believe every gen. has something to answer for....and l believe every gen. has their anti-gay set, but as a baby boomer l am "definately" NOT one of them....solar 17 [Baden]


----------



## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Yeah I think the christian view is that it doesnt fit with their plan of creation.


 
Well they should keep their pathetic myth to themselves.
And also next time there sick go pray at church and stay the "hell" out of science based medical institutions.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Whooah so your a Mormon? One man, several women?


my bad, nah one is enough for me lol, seriously though i am not hating here just sharing my opinion, just like everyone else.


----------



## kupper (Nov 17, 2010)

Told you jays posts where going to be epic lol


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> YouTube - Richard Dawkins explains how the gay gene was preserved
> 
> Homosexual behavior due to genetics and environmental factors | e! Science News
> 
> ...



None of that is scientific evidence that has been published and proven as FACT... stupid wiki


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Well they should keep their pathetic myth to themselves.
> And also next time there sick go pray at church and stay the "hell" out of science based medical institutions.



christians do not deny science, we just interpret the results differently and as for staying out of things, i have seen many atheists pray when a loved one is dying, missing, etc....


----------



## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-attributed to Socrates by Plato



Every generation seems to think the next is going to hell in a handbasket.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> christians do not deny science, we just interpret the results differently and as for staying out of things,* i have seen many atheists pray when a loved one is dying, missing, etc...*.


 
Then that makes them theists not atheists.


----------



## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> None of that is scientific evidence that has been published and proven as FACT... stupid wiki



You initially stated there was no evidence. I provided evidence. If you want undeniable facts you'll need to speak to a philosopher 

I suppose if you're willing to completely ignore evidence you'll believe just about anything.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Wallypod said:
> 
> 
> > christians do not deny science, we just interpret the results differently and as for staying out of things,* i have seen many atheists pray when a loved one is dying, missing, etc....[/*QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

so, coz i disagree with you i am wrong?


----------



## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> so, coz i disagree with you i am wrong?


 
Anyone who believes in god/s and all related junk is wrong.

Edit: sometimes just mentally ill - which isn't there fault.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Anyone who believes in god/s and all related junk is wrong.
> 
> Edit: sometimes just mentally ill - which isn't there fault.


 
.....?


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

I think manners and respect should be injected back into this thread. People are raised differently and have varied belief systems. Arguing won't make any difference just raise your blood pressure. Be kind to yourselves and just deal.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Anyone who believes in god/s and all related junk is wrong.
> 
> *Edit: sometimes just mentally ill - which isn't there fault*.



Hahaha... hahahahaha


----------



## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 17, 2010)

...we should stop with religion/belief bantering and get back on topic. 
this thread is dieing bring back some life to it.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> I think manners and respect should be injected back into this thread. People are raised differently and have varied belief systems. Arguing won't make any difference just raise your blood pressure. Be kind to yourselves and just deal.


 
agreed,


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> agreed,



Hey hey hey, fairs fair... something about horses?


----------



## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Lets face it religion is really whats hindering gay rights.
I have no real interest in gay rights - i do have a keen interest in freedom from religion.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Lets face it religion is really whats hindering gay rights.
> I have no real interest in gay rights - i do have a keen interest in freedom from religion.


 
what about freedom from religious oppression? 
starting to sound a lot like communist china?


----------



## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> You initially stated there was no evidence. I provided evidence. If you want undeniable facts you'll need to speak to a philosopher
> 
> I suppose if you're willing to completely ignore evidence you'll believe just about anything.


 
nope, I feel I'm debating with someone who hasn't got much in the way of education. You never provided evidence you simply posted links to hearsay evidence. Science has proven ability to map genes to specific human chromosomes and to define chromosomal gene neighborhoods. This in return gave us the insight to detect many characteristics that in effect predetermine various aspects of the human being. There is still no scientific proof that sexual choice is something we are born with.


----------



## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> what about freedom from religious oppression?
> starting to sound a lot like communist china?


 
I don't think many people want to deny your right to believe/practice/worship whatever/whoever you like. The problem many of us have is when people of religious leanings try to impose those values on others.

If you do not like the idea of gay marriage, don't marry someone with the same junk in their undies as you. I don't see the need to deny others based off the umbrella of various religions.

Surely between all the world religions, at some point, pretty much everything is non kosher/banned/sinful. Australia has (in theory) a well defined line between church and state. (see 'Westminster System'), myself and many like me are angry that we feel this distinction id not being enforced.


----------



## cockney red (Nov 17, 2010)

My cousin Is a choccy jockie, and an atheist, and godfearing as I am, I luv Im to bits...


----------



## redbellybite (Nov 17, 2010)

WELL WELL it honestly sadens me that some of you feel this way even though it is now 2010 ...WHY do some still compare GAY life styles with SICK ABUSERS such as kiddie fiddlers and animal rapists?????????? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO concenting adults that share the same values and views LIKE YOU AND I and if you didnt think about what went on in the privacy of their bedroom THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME HUMANS!! ...why shouldnt they have the same rights as YOU and I ? 
anal sex isnt just done with two GAY blokes ...plenty of hetro sexuals out there that do that deed ...does that make them CLOSET GAYS NOW? so if you can accept that anal is simply a sex act that ANYONE CAN DO then that blows that argument out of the water ...adopting children or lesbians and gays sharing the responsibility of a child/children together if these kids are raised in a happy and healthy household ..how can that be wrong? plenty of kiddies that have a mum n dad that live a nightmare everyday with their hetrosexual parents now ..so that argument is also GONE ...

MOST Gays might not care about the paper but as I said its all the legal rights as a couple that they miss out on ,not being recognised as next of kin or on legal adoption of children is where it peeves me the most ...I doubt my son would ever want to be married in a church now or any type of religious hype ceremony .but I would like him TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE not some backward government...

AND FINALLY PEADOFILES ALSO ARE OF THE HETRO SEXUAL KIND YOU WILL FIND THAT MOST % OF THESE SICK WARPED HUMANS ARE ACTUALLY MARRIED MEN WITH CHILDREN OF THEIR OWN NOW ....so that BLOWS that out of the water now too ...


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Lets face it religion is really whats hindering gay rights.
> I have no real interest in gay rights - i do have a keen interest in freedom from religion.


 
Shouldnt EVERYONE have the same rights. How does being gay, athiest, Jew, Christian or being anything else stop anyone from being anything other than a person. I don't see whats so hard about accepting everyone? I have stong oppinions, but they are mine. If you want to be gay I wouldn't think of stopping you and if I saw you getting beaten up I'd step in without hesitation (to help you).
That is what is wrong with people. They cant just accept and love. We DONT have to agree, we just have to give people the same respect we want in return. If someone wants to believe in God, let them. If they don't want to believe in God then let them do that. If they want to be gay then let them if they want to be straight then let them... It's not hard really!!!


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> nope, I feel I'm debating with someone who hasn't got much in the way of education. You never provided evidence you simply posted links to hearsay evidence. Science has proven ability to map genes to specific human chromosomes and to define chromosomal gene neighborhoods. This in return gave us the insight to detect many characteristics that in effect predetermine various aspects of the human being. There is still no scientific proof that sexual choice is something we are born with.



I'm not sure you understand the concepts of 'proof', 'theory' and 'evidence'. There is mounting evidence, and has been for quite some time, of the genetic links to homosexuality, along with all manner of human conditions/predispositions. If you choose to ignore that evidence I doubt I, or anyone else will have much luck in achieving meaningful discourse with you.

The links I posted were the first few of about 58,000 hits on the subject. I totally agree that nothing there is fact, in so much as the theory of gravity is also not a 'fact'.


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## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> what about freedom from religious oppression?
> starting to sound a lot like communist china?


 
Religious people are the main perpetrators of religious oppression - not the non-religious!
Wanting freedom from something isn't very communist sounding.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Hahaha I can repsect you opinion Clem. And I have no problem with anyones view as long as they accept mine too. But you say when the hormones kicked in girls just became interesting. Can you tell me that absolutely none of that instinct isn't from life experience and environment. IE of seeing girls on TV, watching your parents, etc etc.
> The amount of homsexual activity in US prisons is certainly a factor of environment.


 
How would you explain myself then?? I was raised in a very strict house. My parents started dating at 15, were married by the age of 21 and have never been with anyone else.

I was never allowed to watch trashy TV. No neighbours, no friends, nothing. I had no homosexual influence in my life. No gay friends or family or exposure in the media. 

However.... i knew from a young age i was different. This manifested to an understanding about my sexuality. So my environmental factors certainly had NOTHING to do with my sexuality.

Homosexual activity in US prisons is totally different. The majority of these cases is sexual gratification in a limited environment. There are no women to have sex with, so naturally they turn to each other. I am sure most of these men if given the chance would sleep with women. And i am also sure that if not in prison would never have had a sexual experience with another man.


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## da_donkey (Nov 17, 2010)

good on you wallypod for sticking up for what you believe in!

and you do have a valid point for the horse comment.

I mean where does it stop???? can i marry my sister??? my mum???? my Dad????? my aunt??? my uncle with benifits????

look fair enough that gay people would like to be entitiled to there partners super annuation ect ect and thats fine but marrige?? i dont think so if you want to be married by a religion that does not agree with homosexuality.


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## dpeica (Nov 17, 2010)

It's just another trend like emos, ipods and yoyos. They'll get over it when another new exciting fad comes along. The worlds a mess anyway..so I doubt a couple of blokes walking down an aisle in skirts will make much of a difference. It is pretty gross and un-natural though.

Oh stop your whinging because people dont agree with you guys.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> I'm not sure you understand the concepts of 'proof', 'theory' and 'evidence'. There is mounting evidence, and has been for quite some time, of the genetic links to homosexuality, along with all manner of human conditions/predispositions. If you choose to ignore that evidence I doubt I, or anyone else will have much luck in achieving meaningful discourse with you.
> 
> The links I posted were the first few of about 58,000 hits on the subject. I totally agree that nothing there is fact, in so much as the theory of gravity is also not a 'fact'.



 as I suspected


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> good on you wallypod for sticking up for what you believe in!
> 
> and you do have a valid point for the horse comment.
> 
> ...


 
cheers


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## cockney red (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> How would you explain myself then?? I was raised in a very strict house. My parents started dating at 15, were married by the age of 21 and have never been with anyone else.
> 
> I was never allowed to watch trashy TV. No neighbours, no friends, nothing. I had no homosexual influence in my life. No gay friends or family or exposure in the media.
> 
> ...


 
Ilove Midnight express, but If I was banged up for life, my butress would not be breeched, unless their were a hell of a lot of smokes involved...


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## Scleropages (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> WELL WELL it honestly sadens me that some of you feel this way even though it is now 2010 ...WHY do some still compare GAY life styles with SICK ABUSERS such as kiddie fiddlers and animal rapists?????????? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO concenting adults that share the same values and views LIKE YOU AND I and if you didnt think about what went on in the privacy of their bedroom THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME HUMANS!! ...why shouldnt they have the same rights as YOU and I ?
> anal sex isnt just done with two GAY blokes ...plenty of hetro sexuals out there that do that deed ...does that make them CLOSET GAYS NOW? so if you can accept that anal is simply a sex act that ANYONE CAN DO then that blows that argument out of the water ...adopting children or lesbians and gays sharing the responsibility of a child/children together if these kids are raised in a happy and healthy household ..how can that be wrong? plenty of kiddies that have a mum n dad that live a nightmare everyday with their hetrosexual parents now ..so that argument is also GONE ...
> 
> MOST Gays might not care about the paper but as I said its all the legal rights as a couple that they miss out on ,not being recognised as next of kin or on legal adoption of children is where it peeves me the most ...I doubt my son would ever want to be married in a church now or any type of religious hype ceremony .but I would like him TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE not some backward government...
> ...


 
You are forgetting most people don't even use logic in their beliefs.
Legal rights should have nothing to do with religion , at least you are cluey about it!


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> . from an evolutionist view doesnt make much sense either as 2 of the same gender cant breed.
> 
> How do you know this is not a very smart move in evolution??? The population on this earth is ever increasing, maybe being homosexual is a means to prevent even more people breeding???????
> 
> also from a social science point of view a child needs a healthy example of both male and female as parents not 2 of the same gender. save your pity for some one else.


 
Oh please.... how many children now have a stable family life? of 2 LOVING parents? Not many, speak to the kids at school and the majority will tell you of single parent life. How can 2 LOVING same sex parents be considered detrimental OR UNHEALTHY?. I am sure they will grow up to be more accepting and open minded and socially adjusted individuals.


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't know where you guys get the energy to care that other people don't agree with you! Live and let live, humanity has persevered through these issues for thousands of years. Just enjoy your lives. Chill.


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay, God just realized very early on in your life that with your hot body, chiseled jaw line and rippling abs, he (or she) had to make you gay otherwise World War Jay would erupt in all the women folk throughout the world. 

It was just easier this way and it give the rest of the guys in the world a chance.




Jay84 said:


> How would you explain myself then?? I was raised in a very strict house. My parents started dating at 15, were married by the age of 21 and have never been with anyone else.
> 
> I was never allowed to watch trashy TV. No neighbours, no friends, nothing. I had no homosexual influence in my life. No gay friends or family or exposure in the media.
> 
> ...


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Oh please.... how many children now have a stable family life? of 2 LOVING parents? Not many, speak to the kids at school and the majority will tell you of single parent life. How can 2 LOVING same sex parents be considered detrimental OR UNHEALTHY?. I am sure they will grow up to be more accepting and open minded and socially adjusted individuals.


 

I posted this link earlier, but it does have some interesting theories about why homosexuality may have been preserved through our genetic code.

[video=youtube;MHDCAllQgS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDCAllQgS0[/video]


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

you know what, i give up. it doesnt matter what i have to say, coz at the end of the day all you who get their nickers in a twist over my dislike for gay marriage are more bigoted than you think i am. just coz its 2010 and it is socially acceptable does not make it right.
you want freedom from religion i want freedom of speech. seems we cant have everything we want can we.


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## imalizard (Nov 17, 2010)

Hey everyone, just thought I would say that this topic has been very interesting for me for both sides of the argument. It's something I have never thought of before but now, as I grow up it's something I should become involved in. I'm 14 and have been gay all my life. I’ve known since I was little that I liked the same sex but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started to tell others. I have always been called gay and faggots even before I told anyone. I never take anything by those names, it happens daily and I just laugh it off. Although suicide has always popped up in my head. It would be so easy to do it. Just to leave everything and not worry. But what does that prove? It would wreck my family and friends. I could never leave those things behind, even if it's the easy way out.

I used to wish I would like girls, even if it was just for a year. I just wanted to fit in with others. I wanted to be able to make friends with guys and not just get nervous around them. I wanted to have guys as friends. Not just girls. All that would of made my life so much easier. 

I don't worry about that anymore. I have friends who are true friends, yes I may have lost some friends when coming out but I didn't care. I respect that some people disagree but I wish they would ease up on the bullying. As I have many friends, I don't get the full effect of bullying but obviously it’s horrible for others. No one should be abused so much that they have to kill themselves. Especially at a young age like me.

We all do things differently, we shouldn't be judged but that's life. People need to grow up and stop following the crowd. Start to accept people. It doesn't matter if you are white, black, fat, slim or whatever, just keep things to your selves.
Im not sure about gay rights as it is never anything I have looked into. If gay adoption and marriage was legal then it would be good. Although I don’t think I would adopt. Not with this attitude towards gays still around. Thank you for this thread, it has been a learning curve for me. 

Thanks from,
The gay 14 year old


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> I posted this link earlier, but it does have some interesting theories about why homosexuality may have been preserved through our genetic code.
> 
> YouTube - Richard Dawkins explains how the gay gene was preserved


 oh mr dawkins the man who screams at people who disagrees with him....ironic much


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> you know what, i give up. it doesnt matter what i have to say, coz at the end of the day all you who get their nickers in a twist over my dislike for gay marriage are more bigoted than you think i am. just coz its 2010 and it is socially acceptable does not make it right.
> you want freedom from religion i want freedom of speech. seems we cant have everything we want can we.



And the rest of Australia who disagree with you want *FREEDOM FROM DISCRIMINATION!*

When you want to disdriminate against someone because of their sexuality makes you the bigot. Not those of us supporting equal rights.


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Jay, God just realized very early on in your life that with your hot body, chiseled jaw line and rippling abs, he (or she) had to make you gay otherwise World War Jay would erupt in all the women folk throughout the world.
> 
> It was just easier this way and it give the rest of the guys in the world a chance.


 
Oh Gordo i do love you.... in a very homo erotic way lol


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> you know what, i give up. it doesnt matter what i have to say, coz at the end of the day all you who get their nickers in a twist over my dislike for gay marriage are more bigoted than you think i am. just coz its 2010 and it is socially acceptable does not make it right.
> you want freedom from religion i want freedom of speech. seems we cant have everything we want can we.



I think you have the right to disagree and disapprove of gay marriage all you like. You can shout it from the rooftops, from balconies in parliament if you so choose.

I do not however, think you have the right to stop Adam marrying Steve.

EDIT: Terrible analogy time!

I hate mushrooms. I despise them, I truly find them unnatural and disturbing and question the sanity of all those who willingly eat them. I even go so far as to loudly proclaim my hatred for fungi if someone should order them in my presence at a restaurant. 
The difference is I fully and wholeheartedly support your or anyone elses rights to eat the revolting things whenever they damn well please.


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Very brave post champ. I applaud you for making it. I hope the people against equal rights can read your post and learn from it.



imalizard said:


> Hey everyone, just thought I would say that this topic has been very interesting for me for both sides of the argument. It's something I have never thought of before but now, as I grow up it's something I should become involved in. I'm 14 and have been gay all my life. I’ve known since I was little that I liked the same sex but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started to tell others. I have always been called gay and faggots even before I told anyone. I never take anything by those names, it happens daily and I just laugh it off. Although suicide has always popped up in my head. It would be so easy to do it. Just to leave everything and not worry. But what does that prove? It would wreck my family and friends. I could never leave those things behind, even if it's the easy way out.
> 
> I used to wish I would like girls, even if it was just for a year. I just wanted to fit in with others. I wanted to be able to make friends with guys and not just get nervous around them. I wanted to have guys as friends. Not just girls. All that would of made my life so much easier.
> 
> ...


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## hypochondroac (Nov 17, 2010)

Artificial insemination? Mobiles? Cars? Computers?
We went to the moon for christs sake. If you're sitting at a computer and whinging about homosexuality being 'unatural' you should probably throw out your PC and start learning how to hunt for your own food.

Funny how alot of christians seem to use the term 'unatural' to describe homosexuality, didn't one of their rulers magically come back from the dead? Zombie Jesus?

I always wondered how gay marriage wasn't approved and forgotten about by now but i slowly realised that so called open minded people might not be as open minded as they claim. Alot of them keep quiet about it because they know these days gay marriage has alot of supporters so they don't want to be badgered for saying something negative. They also don't want to try and debate it because in the end they normally come out short of reasons why a man shouldn't be able to marry another man.

I've heard people use the excuse of it being a traditional christian act between a man and a woman. That's like saying i can't eat chinese food because i'm not from china. 

I can't believe that there are still people out there that care enough to be so against it, to the point where they would stand up and fight the issue when it has NO impact on them what so ever.


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

imalizard said:


> Hey everyone, just thought I would say that this topic has been very interesting for me for both sides of the argument. It's something I have never thought of before but now, as I grow up it's something I should become involved in. I'm 14 and have been gay all my life. I’ve known since I was little that I liked the same sex but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started to tell others. I have always been called gay and faggots even before I told anyone. I never take anything by those names, it happens daily and I just laugh it off. Although suicide has always popped up in my head. It would be so easy to do it. Just to leave everything and not worry. But what does that prove? It would wreck my family and friends. I could never leave those things behind, even if it's the easy way out.
> 
> I used to wish I would like girls, even if it was just for a year. I just wanted to fit in with others. I wanted to be able to make friends with guys and not just get nervous around them. I wanted to have guys as friends. Not just girls. All that would of made my life so much easier.
> 
> ...



An articulate post from an obviously mature young man. 
I to applaud you.


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## Scleropages (Nov 17, 2010)

imalizard said:


> Hey everyone, just thought I would say that this topic has been very interesting for me for both sides of the argument. It's something I have never thought of before but now, as I grow up it's something I should become involved in. I'm 14 and have been gay all my life. I’ve known since I was little that I liked the same sex but it wasn't until a few months ago that I started to tell others. I have always been called gay and faggots even before I told anyone. I never take anything by those names, it happens daily and I just laugh it off. Although suicide has always popped up in my head. It would be so easy to do it. Just to leave everything and not worry. But what does that prove? It would wreck my family and friends. I could never leave those things behind, even if it's the easy way out.
> 
> I used to wish I would like girls, even if it was just for a year. I just wanted to fit in with others. I wanted to be able to make friends with guys and not just get nervous around them. I wanted to have guys as friends. Not just girls. All that would of made my life so much easier.
> 
> ...



Awesome! just be yourself... some people at 50 haven't even got where you are mentally!
Go for gold Tiger!


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## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 17, 2010)

The two post from Hypocondroac and imalizard are great.

Kudo's goes out to the 14 old who actually thinks with his head
Takes guts.


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> I've heard people use the excuse of it being a traditional christian act between a man and a woman. That's like saying i can't eat chinese food because i'm not from china.



That's the best thing I've read all day. I just fell a little bit in love with you. <3


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Oh Gordo i do love you.... in a very homo erotic way lol



Not as much as i love you!


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## Snakewoman (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm a Christian, and I hate it when I see gay people being mistreated. I know people who are gay, one is in my family. If any idiot tried to give him that 'it's a choice' crap, I think I'd put them through the wall! People need to learn how to shut up and mind their own business!!!


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
I could be gay, but I choose not to be...


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...


The freedom from oppression


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?



I don't believe there are more, I believe most are no longer as scared to say so now. Which is a good thing in my opinion.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

so are you saying I can't decide to be gay? What if that's what I want? But I wasn't born with it?


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## hypochondroac (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...


 
Well i don't know about you, but back in the 50's i wouldn't of fancied being beaten straight.


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> so are you saying I can't decide to be gay?



You can try, but I'm not sure you'd live up to the high standards of personal hygiene and style. It's a full time hobby y'know!.


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## da_donkey (Nov 17, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> Artificial insemination? Mobiles? Cars? Computers?
> We went to the moon for christs sake. If you're sitting at a computer and whinging about homosexuality being 'unatural' you should probably throw out your PC and start learning how to hunt for your own food.
> 
> Funny how alot of christians seem to use the term 'unatural' to describe homosexuality, didn't one of their rulers magically come back from the dead? Zombie Jesus?
> ...


 
But there is nothing in Chinese culture that says that Anglosaxon people cant eat chinese food.

The christan faith clearly states it is against homosexuality.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> I don't believe there are more, I believe most are no longer as scared to say so now. Which is a good thing in my opinion.



So you are saying they have a choice now?


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> The christan faith clearly states it is against homosexuality.



With all due respect, the Christian faith, along with some other religions have a lot to answer for....

Having said that though, religion does not, and should not, have any place in this discussion. In my opinion


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> So you are saying they have a choice now?



A choice to stay in the closet or to come out. Not a choice over their homosexuality  you'll get it eventually.


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## Snakewoman (Nov 17, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> I don't believe there are more, I believe most are no longer as scared to say so now. Which is a good thing in my opinion.


 
I agree. People were simply too frightened of what would happen to them if they said anything. I've seen the struggles men go through when they're discovering who they are. Some of them try very hard to fight it and can end up suicidal or with severe mental problems, and it's all because they're afraid of what people will think and how they'll be treated.


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## Nik (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...



Because things are slowly changing and people don't have to be as scared as we have in the past. As society becomes more accepting people don't have to hide who they are.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 17, 2010)

edited


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> So you are saying they have a choice now?



Why are you hung up on choices? Gay people are just following their instincts like their hetty counterparts.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 17, 2010)

Scleropages said:


> Awesome! just be yourself... some people at 50 haven't even got where you are mentally!
> Go for gold Tiger!



Ain't that the truth! Oh that some of the other 14 year olds here had some of that common sense... and balls! The world needs more like you buddy! (imalizard that is!)

Jamie.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> So you are saying they have a choice now?


 
She's saying they now have more of a choice to say openly that they are gay. She didn't mention anything about choosing to BE gay. I'm not sure what you get out of stirring the pot so hard. Whatever point you're trying to make isn't particularly clear.


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## affroalex (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite, thank you for starting this thread its good to see so many people seem to have a positive attitude towards gay marriage. it gives me hope that one day when i want to marry the guy that i love, i might just be able to do it. i was also very lucky to have very understanding parents and a few select friends who have supported me. my grandparents, some family members and most of supposed freinds turned on me though, i have heard just about every bad thing about me being gay that you can imagine, most from my own family. To those that think its a choice, do you really think i chose to have most of my family hate me, to be called very insulting names, to be discriminated against and to have to be careful if i walk down the street by myself. i have already had many beatings because of something that i have no control over. i would like to see some of the people that give me hell go through what i have been through and see how they hold up.


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## affroalex (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...


 
because now most gay people don't have to hide who they are anymore


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## Jay84 (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...



Maybe because times are SLOWLY changing, and it is more acceptable for gay people to lead a gay life. In the past, gay people would marry, have kids.... live a lie.

Does this answer your question?


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

affroalex said:


> i would like to see some of the people that give me hell go through what i have been through and see how they hold up.



+1. Much easier to be an P.C. moral thug when you can walk down the street hand in hand with your partner without the risk of being spat on.

And spat on if you're lucky.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

LOL correct just stirring the pot... I couldn't care if they get married or not  I just entered the thread cause some guy was getting slammed for having an unpopular opinion. I like to take the the side of the under dog on most things. I'm dead bored and in an office watching the clock.
I do care about not having the same rights as the eastern states when it comes to reptile keeping. But much like the gays, the laws are out of my hands at present. At least they have numbers on their side. I find these threads interesting non the less to hear peoples views and ideas. And see those that have their own thoughts and those that follow the crowed.


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## ihaveherps (Nov 17, 2010)

I am always amused by the liberal thinkers... preaching freedoms of speach and ideals, yet vehemently arguing the same freedoms, with those that do not agree with them.... It is obviously safe to assume that such freedoms are only afforded to, for lack of a better terms, those with new and often radical ideals (when compared to more conservative, and standing outlooks). 

I dont care either way... just here to highlight, that every hypocrite has their day.


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## hypochondroac (Nov 17, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> But there is nothing in Chinese culture that says that Anglosaxon people cant eat chinese food.
> 
> The christan faith clearly states it is against homosexuality.


 
Tell that to the priests found guilty of taking advantage of little boys.

(Sorry, couldn't resist).


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## dpeica (Nov 17, 2010)

You are correct Mr herpies.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> +1. Much easier to be an P.C. moral thug when you can walk down the street hand in hand with your partner without the risk of being spat on.
> 
> And spat on if you're lucky.


 

pfft.. who hasn't spent a week in hospital because some kids took a dislike to the color of their skin. I got off easy compared to my friend Daniel who was with me and got a steel softball bat to his head and lived with brain damage for 6 years before he passed away due to complications from the bashing.
I think things are way better in 2010 than in the 1980's for all minoritys.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 17, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> Tell that to the priests found guilty of taking advantage of little boys.
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist).


 
...as well as those covering it up.

(Couldn't resist either).


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> LOL correct just stirring the pot... I couldn't care if they get married or not  I just entered the thread cause some guy was getting slammed for having an unpopular opinion. I like to take the the side of the under dog on most things. I'm dead bored and in an office watching the clock.
> I do care about not having the same rights as the eastern states when it comes to reptile keeping. But much like the gays, the laws are out of my hands at present. At least they have numbers on their side. I find these threads interesting non the less to hear peoples views and ideas. And see those that have their own thoughts and those that follow the crowed.


I knew thats what you were up too lol. That or someone had hacked into your user account


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> Tell that to the priests found guilty of taking advantage of little boys.
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist).



Don't think you better link homosexuallity with taking advantage of little boys.... back fire there buddy


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> pfft.. who hasn't spent a week in hospital because some kids took a dislike to the color of their skin. I got off easy compared to my friend Daniel who was with me and got a steel softball bat to his head and lived with brain damage for 6 years before he passed away due to complications from the bashing.
> I think things are way better in 2010 than in the 1980's for all minoritys.



Haha, now you're gonna bring race into it as well?

Obvious troll is obvious.


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> With all due respect, the Christian faith, along with some other religions have a lot to answer for....
> 
> Having said that though, religion does not, and should not, have any place in this discussion. In my opinion


 neither should atheism....guess we can all shut up then?


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## giggle (Nov 17, 2010)

PhilK said:


> Where on earth did you get that from?
> 
> Oh yeah.. gay rights = good, pope = fruitloop.



What, where did my mother get her gay dog from or where did I get the idea that a lot of female animals have bisexual tendency? You havent seen what happens when a female animal is in heat then lol xD Some things extend further than shows of dominance and slip right into pure sexual enjoyment. We humans aren't the only ones that enjoy it.  I bet your text books don't tell you that


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## giggle (Nov 17, 2010)

megrim said:


> Haha, now you're gonna bring race into it as well?
> 
> Obvious troll is obvious.



 I love obvious troll!


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> ....guess we can all shut up then?



Hmmm...there's a thought 

Just kidding 

There is nothing at all wrong with good healthy, rational argument


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Lol yeah. Sadly the story has some truth in it but stirring the pot with a racial angle. 
Guilty as charged.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> just coz its 2010 and it is socially acceptable does not make it right.
> you want freedom from religion i want freedom of speech. seems we cant have everything we want can we.



...and just because your bible states that it is wrong, that does not make it so either. 

You can have your freedom of speech - no one is debating that. The fact that religious people feel as though they have the right to impose beliefs upon others, and that homosexuals are denied rights that others are entitled to, based on your religious texts, is the problem here.

You can disagree all you like, but I am *firmly* against religion having any place within our legal system.


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## hypochondroac (Nov 17, 2010)

Back fire? What, am i supposed to be convincing people like you to become more understanding? I'm not that optimistic.

Marriage is not strictly a christian thing anymore. A man and a woman who don't believe in god are entitled to be married. Plenty of people these days have 'non christian' type weddings.

Gays arn't trying to prevent straight people from being married, they just want the same option for themselves, i don't see anything hypocritical about it.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

The local skin heads and my lovely chocolate complexion just weren't a good mix growing up.


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

i didnt put my opinion in to start a crap storm, just putting it out there because silly me thought that with all these "tolerant" people on here though it is unpopular would have at least been accepted. i am not asking for you to join me, im not forcing my beliefs or opinions on you. just sharing what i believe, what i have written was never angry or hateful, just a different way of looking at a very contentious issue. so instead of beating up people coz they have different opinions, listen, try to understand and i will do the same.


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## Wallypod (Nov 17, 2010)

xxMelissaxx said:


> ...and just because your bible states that it is wrong, that does not make it so either.
> 
> You can have your freedom of speech - no one is debating that. The fact that religious people feel as though they have the right to impose beliefs upon others, and that homosexuals are denied rights that others are entitled to, based on your religious texts, is the problem here.
> 
> You can disagree all you like, but I am *firmly* against religion having any place within our legal system.


 
large portion of our laws are biblicaly based. stealing, murder, etc......do you wish to get rid of these coz the bible says it?


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

No the backfire was someone said something like "Christians don't believe in homosexuality" and you said something like "tell that to the priests that molest little boys" which insinuated that pedophile priests are homosexuals.


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## hypochondroac (Nov 17, 2010)

The gay issue should be disregarded the same way biblical study was at public schools.


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## Nik (Nov 17, 2010)

I think people focus on the religious aspect of this debate way too much. 

I'm a gay mother of a 6 year old boy who has chosen to attend a Catholic school. My family isn't Catholic but my son started saying he'd attend a Catholic school when he was 3, I explained the Catholic system to him and for two years he told me he wanted to be Catholic, so I tried have him baptised, I was turned down by our local church and then rang the Diocese who told me to ring the Cathedral Church, they were happy to baptise my son.

I was scared when I sent him to school, although the school was aware he was from a gay family, I had to sit with him and explain the issues he might face, I guess I would have had to do that no matter what school I sent him to.

My son's school is one of the most accepting places we attend as a gay family, they include us in everything, and even sent home two mothers day presents this year. Within my sons school and the Catholic church attached to it we are treated as any other family by staff, parents and children.

As for marriage, I've never been a fan of marriage at all but I know my partner would love to get married and I think she deserves that right just like everyone else. I think things are moving in a positive direction and all we need is for our politicians to start to listen so we can live in a society that treats all people equally.


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## giggle (Nov 17, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Oh please.... how many children now have a stable family life? of 2 LOVING parents? Not many, speak to the kids at school and the majority will tell you of single parent life. How can 2 LOVING same sex parents be considered detrimental OR UNHEALTHY?. I am sure they will grow up to be more accepting and open minded and socially adjusted individuals.



It is healthier to have a GOOD example of a male and female parent... but the fact of the matter is there are few GOOD parents full stop. A good same sex pair of parents outweighs a bad pair of hetro parents... even just a satisfactory pair. 

I don't know... the whole debate seems silly to me... sorry  But people have a right to have what they want providing it is not damaging to others. It also seems silly that they aren't happy with being classed as official partners, but want marriage, when marriage is nothing more than a word once taken all other meaning from it. If marriage is no longer a religious thing... then whats the point? Im bi... if I had chosen to be with a woman that I loved dearly, it wouldnt bug me that we couldn't be 'married' by law. Im still free to have a ceremony and register us as an official couple under law. But then, Im not religious, so perhaps I dont get it  Perhaps its more for those christian gays who want to be able to lead a normal christian life and have the rights of christian marriage as other christians do?


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Wooohooo 4:20 if loggin off. See ya suckers.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> large portion of our laws are biblicaly based. stealing, murder, etc......do you wish to get rid of these coz the bible says it?


 
Ha ha, such a typical, religious response - ignorant of all the other factors involved. Can you really not predict my rebuttal? Are you really that blind that you think that laws against murder and theft are based on the same principles as not allowing gay marriage? Read that book of yours - I certainly have, and then tell me that you think everything that is stated in it should be imposed upon people.

I do not wish to continue this conversation with you, as if you cannot comprehend the flaws in the argument you just presented, then you're not going to comprehend anything else.


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Wooohooo 4:20 if loggin off. See ya suckers.



Bye Snowman! Come back before this thread gets deleted ok?

It won't be the same without you :lol:


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## nathancl (Nov 17, 2010)

I am the most judgemental hypocrate i know, im shallow, unaccepting of opinions i dont like and am happy with it.

therefore im not going to say that peoples opinions are wrong/disgusting/funny/right etc because i would be here for hours and alot of people wouldnt like what i would have to say.

seeing as though this is an open forum and we are all expressing our thoughts on the matter i will say this. as a gay person i never want to be married. gay friends of mine get into arguements with me about gay rights because i brush it off and simply just dont care about it because my way of thinking is if governments dont want to give me the same rights as others im not bothered by that because i am different and would rather be different without being entitled to certain rights, i will learn to live with the dis advantages that come with that and be happy with who i am and what i do. being surrounded by gay friends i do feel sorry for them in certain situations which suck for them and feel as though i have to defend gay rights for them, hence my comments earlier today. it does make me feel sad for them but its not for myself.

everyone has their opinions, everyone is wrong.


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## Snowman (Nov 17, 2010)

Bazinga!!! iPhone baby


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> I think people focus on the religious aspect of this debate way too much.
> 
> I'm a gay mother of a 6 year old boy who has chosen to attend a Catholic school. My family isn't Catholic but my son started saying he'd attend a Catholic school when he was 3, I explained the Catholic system to him and for two years he told me he wanted to be Catholic, so I tried have him baptised, I was turned down by our local church and then rang the Diocese who told me to ring the Cathedral Church, they were happy to baptise my son.
> 
> ...


Great to hear your enlightning experience. It is a true example that religion and homosexuality are not mutually exclusive. This is real life, blended and respectful. A lot of people on here could learn from this.


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## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> I think people focus on the religious aspect of this debate way too much.


 
Religion is the problem behind this "debate".
While your story is nice, their making money from you.
If i was running a business i doubt i would knock back catholic clients (even though i think poorly of them).


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 17, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Wooohooo 4:20 if loggin off. See ya suckers.



Must work for the Commonwealth! Lol!

J


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## Nik (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks ozziepythons, I wish everyones experience could be as good as ours. It just highlights that things are changing and one day people may just be people regardless of sexuality.


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## Nik (Nov 17, 2010)

Australis said:


> Religion is the problem behind this "debate".
> While your story is nice, their making money from you.
> If i was running a business i doubt i would knock back catholic clients (even though i think poorly of them).



The way we're treated at my sons school isn't about money, it's about people treating people in a fair way. 
I don't like grouping anything, I don't like "all gay people are like this" and "all Catholic people are like that". To say you think poorly of all Catholic people is just like saying you think poorly of all gay people.


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## ozziepythons (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> Thanks ozziepythons, I wish everyones experience could be as good as ours. It just highlights that things are changing and one day people may just be people regardless of sexuality.



I believe that many people in all the different religions over time have been understanding and accepting of same sex couples, but in modern times we all talk about it and scrutinise the church over its stance on the issue.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod - like it or not, the Christian faith has changed over the years to be more accepting of certain practices, too. When I went to church, they told me homosexuality was wrong, too. When my mum went to church, they told her that going to the movies, rock music, and dancing was The Debil. When my grannie went to church they told her that not having her head covered was The Debil. It just seems to take the Church a lot longer to face their fears and be accepting.

You said before that you had no problem with a man loving another man, just that allowing them to get married would be an insult. That in itself is a religious compromise on your part, since the bible says that homosexuality is wrong, not just the marriage part. If the Church suddenly said that they had changed their minds and gay marriage was okay, what would you think? Some in the US already have. 

My point is, some of the things that were considered right and wrong to the church-goers 50 years ago no longer apply. Times change, and everything isn't black and white, despite what religion would sometimes have us believe.

You're entitled to your opinion according to what your religion tells you to believe, and you're entitled to argue that opinion. But, it would have been silly to think your argument of "Jeebus said so..." was going to convince the OP and her gay son, or anyone else who has been through or seen a family member or friend go through the hardship of having your homosexuality accepted for what it is, that they are not entitled to the moral and legal privileges of marriage, just like the rest of us.

Why shouldn't gay people be allowed to get married? Or go to church and worship with the hetties?  

PS. The laws around murder and stealing were NOT based on the bible... do you really think that before the bible was written, it was socially acceptable to go around killing people?


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## shellfisch (Nov 17, 2010)

nathancl said:


> as a gay person i never want to be married. gay friends of mine get into arguements with me about gay rights because i brush it off and simply just dont care about it because my way of thinking is if governments dont want to give me the same rights as others im not bothered by that because i am different and would rather be different without being entitled to certain rights,



Would your view change, if, say, you were unable to see your partner in the ICU in the event of an accident - because you were not married or related?
Or, later, if you have been with your partner for many years and were not entitled to your partner's super?

No criticism intended at all, I am truly curious. 

One of the posts here said that gay people don't just want official recognition, they want to be able to 'be married'
I don't know about that, I do not think being able to get married is truly necessary, but I do believe they are entitled to the same rights married/defacto partners enjoy.

I also believe (in an ideal world) that children deserve the care and love of at least one parent, two is better. 
If those parents happen to be the same sex, so what.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> The way we're treated at my sons school isn't about money, it's about people treating people in a fair way.
> I don't like grouping anything, I don't like "all gay people are like this" and "all Catholic people are like that". To say you think poorly of all Catholic people is just like saying you think poorly of all gay people.


 
The difference is, that a Catholic will hold the belief that you are sinning, and that your sexual orientation is morally wrong. They just may not choose to voice this opinion to you.


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## Nik (Nov 17, 2010)

xxMelissaxx said:


> The difference is, that a Catholic will hold the belief that you are sinning, and that your sexual orientation is morally wrong. They just may not choose to voice this opinion to you.



Some Catholics may, but not all, I'm actually fine with people believing I'm sinning so long as they treat my family and myself with respect. I'm sure there are things they do that I wouldn't agree with too, that's just life.


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## Flaviruthless (Nov 17, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> no one is saying they cant love each other just that they should not marry


 
For some people the ultimate expression of love is marriage... Why can we as a society deem it acceptable that they shouldn't be able to do so? WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT PEDOPHILES??? People that are gay (generally speaking as always) aren't going to come into your home and influence your children or you. If anything, allowing gay marriage will teach the next generation that tolerance is the key. If we don't allow it, and stay bigoted, where will it end? If you can't accept people that love each other, we as a society will fail. Even if we take religion out of the picture, why doesn't the law broaden the rights of a same sex spouse? Surely even someone that is religious can't say they shouldn't be recognised as at least being in a relationship.


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## nathancl (Nov 17, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> Would your view change, if, say, you were unable to see your partner in the ICU in the event of an accident - because you were not married or related?
> Or, later, if you have been with your partner for many years and were not entitled to your partner's super?
> 
> No criticism intended at all, I am truly curious.
> ...




of course there are definitely dis advantages but im willing to live with them i mean i will lie cheat and do what i have to so that i get my own way but sometimes there will be things that will just suck. I couldn't possibly be bothered with it all as im far to busy wrapped up in myself.


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## Snakewoman (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> Some Catholics may, but not all, I'm actually fine with people believing I'm sinning so long as they treat my family and myself with respect. I'm sure there are things they do that I wouldn't agree with too, that's just life.


 
I admire your maturity and acceptance of those who think differently to you. I'm very glad to hear they treat you with respect


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## Rox.n.Lix (Nov 17, 2010)

For what its worth, the whole legality of recognising unwed partnerships affects my life adversely as well, but it has nothing to with homosexuality.
I was born in Australia, out of wedlock, to an english father and australian mother. All my cousins (on my dad's side) have british passports, so do many of my friends whose dad's are english. However, since i was born out of wedlock (prior to _*2006*_) I am not entitled to a british passport. (I was even conceived there!!! lol) It was only as recent as 2006 that they decided to afford "_illegitimate"_ children the right to british citizenship.
Amazingly, Britain is way ahead of Australia in the civil partnership stakes. I have a good friend over there who married his partner, and now receives all the benefits and rights a marriage would afford.


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Rox.n.Lix said:


> For what its worth, the whole legality of recognising unwed partnerships affects my life adversely as well, but it has nothing to with homosexuality.
> I was born in Australia, out of wedlock, to an english father and australian mother. All my cousins (on my dad's side) have british passports, so do many of my friends whose dad's are english. However, since i was born out of wedlock (prior to _*2006*_) I am not entitled to a british passport. (I was even conceived there!!! lol) It was only as recent as 2006 that they decided to afford "_illegitimate"_ children the right to british citizenship.
> Amazingly, Britain is way ahead of Australia in the civil partnership stakes. I have a good friend over there who married his partner, and now receives all the benefits and rights a marriage would afford.



I was born and raised in Scandinavia where the general zeitgheist tends to be a bit more progressive. I was lucky in the sense that I was able to come out in a much more relaxed society, without (much) fear of what would happen to me or what people would think.

I have been asked by friends and family why I don't simply move back. There my partner and I can marry, adopt, do everything we should be able to do as a young family. Less polite folk have suggested if I don't like it here I should 'bugger off back overseas then'.

Point is I live in Australia because I love the weather, the animals, the cheap prices on everything XD. As Australian law stands currently, my partner would have to leave his entire family, his home country and leave for an unknown culture just in order to get married and have kids.

A few posters mentioned early in this thread that ideas are changing, and I believe before too much longer Austrian law will change for the better. It pretty much has to really, you know it's bad when Mexico is more progressive than you! lol


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## Gobo (Nov 17, 2010)

The following pieces of information are from a recent, well referenced Psychology text book backed by numerous studies and in terms of being 'unnatural' and whether of not it has a biological basis...

As stated previously it is hard to say homosexuality is unnatural considering it is frequently observed in many animals. In a large part of the world, stretching from Sumatra throughout Melanesia, males almost universally participate in homosexual activities several years before they reach marriageable age, and this is considered a normal thing. So who really gets to dictate what is normal or natural?
in contemporary western societies approx 2-7% men, 1% women consider themselves homosexual. In Australia one particular study found that 1.6 % men and 0.8% women identified themselves as homosexuals but 8.6% men and 15.1% women reported some same-sex activity or attraction.

Psychologist John Money, who has conducted some of the best-known research on homosexuality argues that people no more 'choose' their sexual orientation than they select their native language or 'choose' to be right handed.
Homosexuality is probably the end result of many causes, some environmental and some biological.
atleast One study has found differences in the neuroanatomy of homosexual and heterosexual men, where it was found that one specific set of nuclei in the hypothalamus was twice as large in heterosexual men compared to women and homosexual men. Homosexual males showed a hormonal response to the drug Premarin which was in between the results shown by heterosexual men and heterosexual women.
Similarly, EEG patterns of homosexual men is more similar to heterosexual women than heterosexual men.
on a heritability basis, several studies have found a higher incidence of homosexuality among male relatives of male homosexuals than in the general population. Rates of homosexuality in the general population are estimated at 2-7%, however 25% of brothers of male homosexuals in one study were reportedly homosexual.
Homosexuality has also been found to be much higher among identical twins than fraternal twins and adoptive brothers. Concordance for homosexuality was 52% for monozygotic twins, 22% for dizygotic twins and 11% for adoptive brothers, with heritability estimated between 0.31-0.74.
heritability for homosexuality on women found 48% concordance for monozygotic twins, 16% for dizygotic twins and 6% for adoptive sisters- heritability estimates ranging from 0.27-0.76

All this data does suggest there is some influence of genetics and while it doesn't mean this is the case for all instances it obviously plays a large part for many homosexuals.


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## Mayo (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm sure I'm lining myself up to get burned here but here it goes 

I have no problem with homosexuals, but I disagree with marriage of homosexuals. I do believe they should have the same rights as everyone else but to me marriage is the bond between man and woman. Have a commitment ceremony, create something to recognise it as a bond etc, and by all means give them the same rites as everyone else. I'm sure many will disagree with my point of view but you will also find a few homosexuals that agree with me. I have actually had this discussion in a gay bar in Sydney funnily enough, with all sorts of arguements being pulled into it.

For those badgering religon, and for the record I am not religeous. Religion will always be a part of these types of arguement as there is a large portion of the population are religous wether they are practicing or not they still hold certain values. They have their belief's and some of us may think them a little nutty but as long as they don't try to force it on anyone, and they are not doing harm to anyone I don't care what they believe in.

With the rights etc being made even I think this country has gone way out of wack and they need to bring everything back to a per person basis. ie schools, the government give the same amount of money given to state schools as given to private schools, on a per student basis. Wether married or single, male or female, black white, yellow, green, I don't care, same funding, same rights.


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## megrim (Nov 17, 2010)

Mayo said:


> I'm sure I'm lining myself up to get burned here but here it goes
> 
> I have no problem with homosexuals, but I disagree with marriage of homosexuals. I do believe they should have the same rights as everyone else but to me marriage is the bond between man and woman. Have a commitment ceremony, create something to recognise it as a bond etc, and by all means give them the same rites as everyone else. I'm sure many will disagree with my point of view but you will also find a few homosexuals that agree with me. I have actually had this discussion in a gay bar in Sydney funnily enough, with all sorts of arguements being pulled into it.



Thank you for expressing your views in a polite and respectful manner  

I would argue that if you believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, then simply make sure that YOU only marry someone of the opposite gender.

I'm not quite clear as to how my marrying a man would affect you, (or anyone else) in any way shape or form.

You are free to marry a woman, or live as defacto as you please. Some of us are not being afforded all of those rights, I hope you can understand why some of us are unhappy with this.

I think what I'm trying to say is - "If you don't believe in gay marriage, don't get gay married" ^_^


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## Perko (Nov 17, 2010)

Are you sure it was arguements being pulled?????



Mayo said:


> I have actually had this discussion in a gay bar in Sydney funnily enough, with all sorts of arguements being pulled


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## da_donkey (Nov 17, 2010)

CraigP said:


> Are you sure it was arguements being pulled?????



bhahahahahahahahah nice way to drag it back down bro!!!!! top work!!!

donks


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## Wookie (Nov 17, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Well some already know and some may not ,I am a mother of a lovely 23 year old Gay man ,and it infuriates me that he along with other gay people ,dont have the same rights as my younger hetro sexual son&daughters have. He pays his taxes ,he votes,he obeys the general laws,basically lives a law abiding life YET is discriminated against because his sexual preference is of the same sex ,so this means he isnt allowed to have an acknowledged ceremony and a fully licenced marriage certificate .
> IT SUX ...Gay people have to abide by all laws in this country and suffer the consequences if they break them ,just like any hetro sexual ..yet gay people are still treated like second class humans when it comes to full filling their life with a partner that they want to commit to for the rest of their days ...
> 
> OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET WITH THE TIMES AND STOP ACTING LIKE THE KKK OF THE YESTERYEAR :evil::evil::evil::evil:


 
I agree that that homosexuals should have similar rights to heterosexual folk. I think a lot (not all) of the people against gay marriage are involved in religious groups or (from personal experience) are from less "educated" (not calling people who hate gays dumb) rural areas. I think allowing gay marriage but calling it a "civil union" or something along those lines would appease some of the resistance from the bible-bashers who believe the term "marriage" may only be applied in a heterosexual instance.


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## Australis (Nov 17, 2010)

Nik said:


> The way we're treated at my sons school isn't about money, it's about people treating people in a fair way.
> I don't like grouping anything, I don't like "all gay people are like this" and "all Catholic people are like that". To say you think poorly of all Catholic people is just like saying you think poorly of all gay people.


 
I concede your point.
For me, i have very little tolerance for religious people as a whole.
I think poorly of all of creeds, which is no different to thinking poorly of all terrorists.


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## redbellybite (Nov 18, 2010)

wow ,imalizard ,I had a few tears well up reading your post sweetie ,It reminded me of what my son has endured over his time when he TRIED to force himself to like girls even went as far as to actually have a sexual relationship with a girl and he knew deep down it felt wrong.BUT at that time in his young life was way to scared to come out for fear of being rejected by his peers and ironically his own family (how wrong was he now) ...I had a fair idea that he was gay from a young age ,but when he started dating girls ,thought maybe he was just a bit more sensitive then most guys at his age ,it wasnt till he was around 17 that I fully got to know yes my son is gay and no matter what he is still my son and I love him to bits regardless ..My husband is a blokes bloke,Luke didnt have any gay UPBRINGING believe me ..his younger brother and sisters are hetrosexual,so it wasnt an enviromental thing ,I truely believe it is a genetic makeup and accept that .Luke doesnt abuse children ,animals, rape women , do arm holdups ,beat up elderly people nor has he killed anyone,HE IS SOMEONE that I am ever so proud of and wouldnt hesitate in a blink of an eye to tell anyone that I LOVE MY GAY SON just as much as I do his siblings.
I truely hold hope that one day Luke will get the same rights as I do when it comes to the law ..THIS ISNT ABOUT GETTING MARRIED IN A CHURCH ...I am hetrosexual and never had a religious ceremony in a church or with a priest... .I got married in a backyard celebration by a celebrant with family and friends and this is what I hope one day that all humans can do regardless of sexual preference ...THANKS to all that have posted your views on this topic ,your entitled to your beliefs and hope that as time goes on your views change a little more to allow your gay brother /sister the same rights as you have ...and I truely hope that any of you that are against gay lifestyles ,if you EVER father /mother a gay child no matter what your deep set views are ,that you will learn to accept and always love your child never neglect them ..cause to me a child being neglected and ignored by their own parents is a far worse crime of life then anything else ...if a child cant rely on their own flesh and blood now ..whats that say about you as a human?


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## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Awww RBB, you can adopt me anyday


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## -Peter (Nov 18, 2010)

I married a woman on the 4th of November 1984, We both have two beautiful children. Both with our respective partners. Think about it. We are still married and only ever argued once over the wharfies dispute. 
Marriage is a sham used to obfuscate bureaucracy.


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## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

Snowman said:


> if it wasn't a choice why are there suddenly more gay people than ever before?
> I could be gay, but I choose not to be...



Or maybe you're stuck in the closet?


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

CraigP said:


> Are you sure it was arguements being pulled?????



Ahahahahaha! Love it!


----------



## jordanmulder (Nov 18, 2010)

Australis said:


> I concede your point.
> For me, i have very little tolerance for religious people as a whole.
> I think poorly of all of creeds, which is no different to thinking poorly of all terrorists.


 
I'ts also no difference to thinking poorly of Gay people mate, If you ask me you have got double standards
also by calling religeous people nutty or having mental illnesses, you have not only insulted people on the forum outright 
but you have insulted some of the greatest scientist's in history (eg. Isac Newton, Sameule morse and many others.) and
basicaly all the founding fathers of australia as about 80% of them were christians.

no hard feelings mate just feel the need to defend some people on this sight
please think about what you say. 
peace


----------



## redbellybite (Nov 18, 2010)

Can I just add one thing here alot of NON gay people that obviously have not much to do with gay people either ,have this conclusion that GAYS CHOOSE TO BE GAY ....they choose no more then we do being either female or male ...or hetro sexual ..it isnt a life style choice ,like religion where you can choose to be what ever faith you want ..those back in the days and sadly even now that are 'CLOSET GAYS' are doing this out of FEAR AND KNOWING THEY WILL BE SHUNNED by their so called LOVED ONES so they live a life of lying to themselves and all those around them and quite often end it in a manner that is so sad ..suicide is REAL ...IMAGINE A GOVERNMENT OR SOCIETY FORCING YOU HETROSEXUALS TO BE GAY ,AND BEING TOLD YOU WONT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND ARE SHUNNED UPON AND TOLD YOU ARE SICK AND PERVERTED AND TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN GOD AND RELIGION,THAT YOUR GOD HATES WHO YOU ARE ....YOUR FAMILY DIS OWNS YOU NEVER ACKNOWLEDGING YOU AGAIN ...this is a reality that alot of gay people go through every bloody day of their lives ..as if you would CHOOSE this lifestyle if your easy answer was BE STRAIGHT!!


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

HERE IS A VIDEO WHICH REALLY EXPOSES HOW ARROGANT SOME PEOPLE ARE !!!!!!


[video=youtube;QJtjqLUHYoY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJtjqLUHYoY[/video]


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Another good video hahahahha

[video=youtube;lSfFa44p96o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfFa44p96o&feature=related[/video]


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

I admire celebrities who address the issues like this.

What an amazing song. I know this will be called a ''gay song''.... but really listen to the lyrics, what a lovely message that is being portrayed.

[video=youtube;QGJuMBdaqIw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJuMBdaqIw&feature=share[/video]


----------



## LizardLady (Nov 18, 2010)

Damn it Jay, now I can't get that song out of my head! Thanks man! Love it!


----------



## SomeGuy (Nov 18, 2010)

Is that guy in the video saying it should be banned serious?


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm disgusted with the state of affairs regarding gay rights as a whole. There are many definitions of marriage; it's not secular, it's not religious, and it's certainly not something that belongs to either one "side." There are so many aspects, but when it comes right down to it, it's supposed to be a celebration of love, affection, and a community coming together to congratulate two people for making a commitment to stay together. We've gotten so large (as the human race) and so egotistical now that we forget what it's really about...


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

SomeGuy said:


> Is that guy in the video saying it should be banned serious?


 
Hahahaha.... no, it is tongue in cheek. He is being sarcastic lol


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Crystal..Discus said:


> I'm disgusted with the state of affairs regarding gay rights as a whole. There are many definitions of marriage; it's not secular, it's not religious, and it's certainly not something that belongs to either one "side." There are so many aspects, but when it comes right down to it, it's supposed to be a celebration of love, affection, and a community coming together to congratulate two people for making a commitment to stay together. We've gotten so large (as the human race) and so egotistical now that we forget what it's really about...



Very well said Crystal Discus.


----------



## Australis (Nov 18, 2010)

jordanmulder said:


> I'ts also no difference to thinking poorly of Gay people mate, If you ask me you have got double standards
> also by calling religeous people nutty or having mental illnesses, you have not only insulted people on the forum outright
> but you have insulted some of the greatest scientist's in history (eg. Isac Newton, Sameule morse and many others.) and
> basicaly all the founding fathers of australia as about 80% of them were christians.
> ...


 
I guess i offended your fantasy-belief system.


----------



## Wallypod (Nov 18, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Can I just add one thing here alot of NON gay people that obviously have not much to do with gay people either ,have this conclusion that GAYS CHOOSE TO BE GAY ....they choose no more then we do being either female or male ...or hetro sexual ..it isnt a life style choice ,like religion where you can choose to be what ever faith you want ..those back in the days and sadly even now that are 'CLOSET GAYS' are doing this out of FEAR AND KNOWING THEY WILL BE SHUNNED by their so called LOVED ONES so they live a life of lying to themselves and all those around them and quite often end it in a manner that is so sad ..suicide is REAL ...IMAGINE A GOVERNMENT OR SOCIETY FORCING YOU HETROSEXUALS TO BE GAY ,AND BEING TOLD YOU WONT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND ARE SHUNNED UPON AND TOLD YOU ARE SICK AND PERVERTED AND TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN GOD AND RELIGION,THAT YOUR GOD HATES WHO YOU ARE ....YOUR FAMILY DIS OWNS YOU NEVER ACKNOWLEDGING YOU AGAIN ...this is a reality that alot of gay people go through every bloody day of their lives ..as if you would CHOOSE this lifestyle if your easy answer was BE STRAIGHT!!


 
show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?


----------



## shellfisch (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?



oh my god, you really don't have a clue do you......

To make a statement like that, truly stuns me :shock:


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?


 
Genes + Brain Wiring + Prenatal Hormonal Environment = Temperament
Parents + Peers + Experiences = Environment
Temperament + Environment = Homosexual Orientation

There are multiple studies done on this. 

You should know better. 

Or does your faith exclude you from participating in intelligent conversation based with facts?


----------



## Scleropages (Nov 18, 2010)

I Guess some people just aint too cluey....


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?



All of them or just one or two?


----------



## olivehydra (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?



I didnt think religious folk required proof to believe??
BTW, what difference does choice make? Even if someone was able to choose their sexuality, they should still be treated as an equal.


----------



## Australis (Nov 18, 2010)

Crystal..Discus said:


> Or does your faith exclude you from participating in intelligent conversation based with facts?


 
They love to demand proof - then retreat to "oh but the bible says something else, screw you guys"


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

this explains everything

[video=youtube;1yddAJSFkEo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yddAJSFkEo[/video]


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Regarding the morality issue about gays and marriage, is it really so important to harangue the few people whom cling to their chosen beliefs that don't tolerate it, and refuse to be wrangled apart from them? Trust me on this one, in this day and age the hetties that just don't understand or tolerate gayness probably never will. Why argue in circles?


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?


 
Show us the studies that prove that it is a choice... no, you can't quote the bible. 

Alternatively, if people choose to be gay, then the rest of us must have chosen to be straight... when did you decide?

More importantly, what are you going to do if your child ends up being gay? I dread to think what will happen if baptism won't wash the gayness off.


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?


 
You DON'T need studies to prove this. Ask any gay person!!!! ASK ME !!!!

Wallypod... go and watch the video that i posted above..... you may find it very insightful.


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 18, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> ...
> Alternatively, if people choose to be gay, then the rest of us must have chosen to be straight... when did you decide?



during breast feeding


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

CodeRed said:


> during breast feeding



Nice 

That doesn't explain straight *women*, though :lol:


----------



## Recharge (Nov 18, 2010)

siouxie said:


> there's been quite a few labor mp's who have been paedophiles, milton orkopolous, bob collins etc, this doesn't mean it should be ok for others,
> 
> very poor arguments from someone with a vested and passionate interest.


 
are you linking predatory activity of the young for sexual gratification to consenting adults making a decision to live a life together under a just law???


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 18, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Nice
> 
> That doesn't explain straight *women*, though :lol:



they must have been bottle fed


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

CodeRed said:


> they must have been bottle fed


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> You DON'T need studies to prove this. Ask any gay person!!!! ASK ME !!!!



Jay if you believe your gayness isn't a choice, what is it then that could make a regular guy to everyone else a total spunky honey in your eyes??


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

ozzie, I'm not sure I even understand your question, but, to try and answer - what makes a normal looking woman to everyone else drop-dead gorgeous to you? Do you choose to see them as attractive, or does it just happen?


----------



## Snowman (Nov 18, 2010)

Seems like Christians and religion gets bashed more by society than gays, if APS is any reflection of society that is.
Just live and let live. Unless someone is bible bashing I can't see a problem with them. Some of the nicest people I have met are christians and some of the nicest people I met are gay. You cant label all groups the same as it's made up of individuals. It's sad that both groups are bashed and put down on this thread.
Sure my opinon is it's not a choice, but I still love them as much as anyother individual.


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> Jay if you believe your gayness isn't a choice, what is it then that could make a regular guy to everyone else a total spunky honey in your eyes??


 
Sorry, can you explain your question? Im not sure i understand.....


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Seems like Christians and religion gets bashed more by society than gays, if APS is any reflection of society that is.
> Just live and let live. Unless someone is bible bashing I can't see a problem with them. Some of the nicest people I have met are christians and some of the nicest people I met are gay. You cant label all groups the same as it's made up of individuals. It's sad that both groups are bashed and put down on this thread.
> Sure my opinon is it's not a choice, but I still love them as much as anyother individual.


 
I could not agree more. I do not have a problem with religious groups as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves. I do not preach my gayness or try to convert people to be gay lol.

The reason why religion has been focused on in this thread is peoples opinion that marriage is a religious thing and that is why they oppose gay marriage. My argument - dont go to a gay wedding. In no way is my gay marriage going to affect their heterosexual marriage.


----------



## Recharge (Nov 18, 2010)

marriage has been around FAR longer than any current religion.
they have no valid claim to it in any way.


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Sorry, can you explain your question? Im not sure i understand.....


 
I think they mean: what makes you attracted to certain people (read: men), even though you're gay?


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

I feel the word 'hetties' is a bit derogatory. I prefer the term 'breeder.'


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I feel the word 'hetties' is a bit derogatory. I prefer the term 'breeder.'


 
Baha. Love for the Kazi!

I got banned from a forum for calling heterosexuals "breeders."


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Sorry, can you explain your question? Im not sure i understand.....


 
I just wanted to know your type, just to make this thread more interesting


----------



## Snowman (Nov 18, 2010)

Crystal..Discus said:


> Baha. Love for the Kazi!
> 
> I got banned from a forum for calling heterosexuals "breeders."



my cousin who is Gay calls us Vagimites.


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I feel the word 'hetties' is a bit derogatory. I prefer the term 'breeder.'


 Yeah they don't like either mate, but a spade is a spade.


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Nov 18, 2010)

Snowman said:


> my cousin who is Gay calls us Vagimites.


 
Eh, could be a little more witty but still clever.


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Seems like Christians and religion gets bashed more by society than gays, if APS is any reflection of society that is.


Snowman do you think APS users being herpers, and herpetology being a branch of science, is a reason for this? Citizens with a greater appreciation of the sciences tend to understand (if not completly understand) evolutionary theory.


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> Jay if you believe your gayness isn't a choice, what is it then that could make a regular guy to everyone else a total spunky honey in your eyes??


 
Hmmmm.... so you're asking my 'type'? what i find attractve in a guy?

I like interesting eyes. Dark features. Nice prominent eyebrows. I like dimples (HOT). I like hairy guys, but not overtly hairy. Masculine but well kept. Any other details you want me to disclose? lol


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

put "love" aside as it is a man made thing. 

hetrosexual couples can have sex to carry on and continue there genetics and allow the evolution of the species.

Homosexual sex is an anamilistic primal urge that is for self gratification only and has no value to the species at all.

having said that like i said at the start, im all for gay marrige but only if both chicks are hot.

donks


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Hmmmm.... so you're asking my 'type'? what i find attractve in a guy?
> 
> I like interesting eyes. Dark features. Nice prominent eyebrows. I like dimples (HOT). I like hairy guys, but not overtly hairy. Masculine but well kept. Any other details you want me to disclose? lol


 
So basically you?



da_donkey said:


> put "love" aside as it is a man made thing.
> 
> hetrosexual couples can have sex to carry on and continue there genetics and allow the evolution of the species.
> 
> ...



It has a benfits for 5-10% of the population!


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Hmmmm.... so you're asking my 'type'? what i find attractve in a guy?
> 
> I like interesting eyes. Dark features. Nice prominent eyebrows. I like dimples (HOT). I like hairy guys, but not overtly hairy. Masculine but well kept. Any other details you want me to disclose? lol


 
Not on here lol


----------



## redbellybite (Nov 18, 2010)

Wally I have all the proof I need ...I KNOW MY SON I gave birth to him ,breast fed him ,was there when times were tough and confusing and I accept him ...it doesnt matter what anyone else wants to claim ..I know him being GAY is who he is and not a way of choice. 
This argument hetro sexuals have sex to breed MAY BE to some degree true ...BUT MANY A HETRO SEXUAL PERSON OUT THERE HAS SEX SIMPLY FOR ANIMALISTIC FUN AND PLEASURE AND HAVE NO DESIRE TO HAVE CHILDREN EVER ....so donks that is not quite right in saying so ...all I want is for my son and others sons and daughters that are gay ,to be able to have the same rights as my hetro sexual children AND AS A MOTHER THATS MY BLOODY RIGHT!


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

Good on ya, Nat


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

very true RBB there are alot of people who choose not/cant breed and those that do/shouldnt breed.

My statement was made looking at the very big picture.

i am all for equal rights for people but where do we draw the line?

If me and my daughter fell in love, should i be able to marry her and have all the same rights as hetrosexual non related couples?

anyone???? where do we draw the line???

I mean, I love lamp........but should i be able to marry lamp?

donks


----------



## SomeGuy (Nov 18, 2010)

You can't get consent from a lamp so no.


----------



## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> put "love" aside as it is a man made thing.
> 
> hetrosexual couples can have sex to carry on and continue there genetics and allow the evolution of the species.
> 
> ...


 
So you are basically saying that EVERY time you have sex it is for procreation purposes only and you are always trying to father a child?? Scary thought that one!



waruikazi said:


> So basically you?


 
Hahahaha.... why thank you Gordo.... but no lol



ozziepythons said:


> Not on here lol


 
To date.... no lol


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

Yeah, they did claim it and yet there are that many other tribes, cults etc etc that had the same idea of a bond between two people making them joined in some way.

In my opinion if you're a homophobe you may aswell be racist, it's discrimination one way or another, you're seperating society and deeming one lifestyle more appropriate than others.

Of course the goddamn government want straights, they want the world to be so over populated it pops.

I'm aware that it's not just christian culprits but that is the argument used against gay marriage, marriage being a christian ideal.

and just for the record i'm not a lesbian, nor do i ever plan on being married. I also hate religion, in my mind it was/is a way for people to escape reality and avoid taking responsibility for their actions, now it's just been passed down through the ages.

Hysterical how a book that has been altered to death can dictate our government policy. Tradition maybe, but so was sacrificing virgins?

Ozziepythons - i think so. People with a keen interest in reptiles and learning about animals in general have an understanding and belief in evolution. That's why there are so many like minded people replying to this thread, i also doubt alot of the members against gay marriage would decide to post and debate the issue.

Donkey - ew.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> So you are basically saying that EVERY time you have sex it is for procreation purposes only and you are always trying to father a child?? Scary thought that one!


 
Clap clap!


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> So you are basically saying that EVERY time you have sex it is for procreation purposes only and you are always trying to father a child?? Scary thought that one!


 
no i am not saying that at all, hetrosexual people also have the animalistic urge for self gratification.

Im just accepting of what it is.

And gay people should also be accepting that there sex is of no benifit to the human race.

Pretty simple really.

Im not being derogotory to gay people for there choices (or not choices) just calling it as i see it.

So can i marry my daughter and engage in a sexual relationship with her as consenting adults?

(P.S i dont have a daughter- im just putting the idea out there for you all)

donks


----------



## redbellybite (Nov 18, 2010)

Donks answer me this ...if you had children and as a proud dad ,you would love your children no matter what, is this true? and you would do what ever to support them,. is this true? 
NOW suppose you had a gay child do you with draw your love and support now cause they arent the same as you ?
do you stop loving them cause they arent the same as you? do you shun them and ignore them and allow people to bully them and disrespect them ?
do you wipe your hands of them and walk away ?

and how has INCEST have anything to do with TWO NON RELATED HUMANS NOW that is just crazy talk donks ...INCEST IS A CRIME DUE TO BLOOD RELATING ISSUES ...SEX WITH A DAUGHTER OR SON HAS BEEN PROOOOOOOVEN TO CAUSE BIRTH DEFECTS IN THE OFFSPRING ...not to mention the trauma of your uncle being your father and grandfather now...


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> .
> 
> Donkey - ew.




lol how or why is it anymore ew than a man putting his penis in another mans anus??

where is the line drawn??


----------



## Recharge (Nov 18, 2010)

so having children is the only benefit of the human race? wow, we sure are a limited species *rolls eyes*
sorry dude, your arguments are pure dribble.
sure, you can have a relationship with your daugher, just expect to go to jail, so as to not produce mutated children, there are genetic reasons for not inbreeding humans. (and you know this)
if one of you are desexed, then, go for it, doesn't worry me in the slightest.
more likely than not though, you'd have to have to have abused her in early childhood to create that kind of bond, or be estranged and have a chance meeting (as has happened recently in Australia)

this is still completely different from gay couples, and is a straw man arguement.

some of the arguments people bring up against are so stupid or non related it's just mind blowing.
it won't end humanity, it won't make more gay people, it won't hinder or change any other law in relation to you or any one else it will do and change NOTHING other than allow people to have the same rights YOU already have. you have no valid or real reason to be against it, not biologically and not socially. all that is left is religion and stupidity, and they surely aren't valid now we're out of the dark ages.


----------



## redbellybite (Nov 18, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> lol how or why is it anymore ew than a man putting his penis in another mans anus??
> 
> where is the line drawn??


YA didnt answer my questions DONK ....


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 18, 2010)

Donks, bit pinks are gross, no matter the combination  But a relationship between a father and daughter has very different moral and ethical connotations to a gay relationship between two unrelated, consenting adults... The comparison you seem to be making is no more relevant than the comparison made to bestiality earlier, IMO.

You and lamp can marry. But you only get one First Home Owner's Grant between you.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

People can say they don't think they should be married but don't mind them being gay all they like but the fact remains anybody against it is making a concious decision that they don't want two human beings that are in love just the same as a straight couple to be happy.

They might not be able to procreate naturally but maybe the all mighty put them here to adopt our unwanted children? Hm.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

You don't seem to be able to look passed the sexual aspect of being gay donkey.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 18, 2010)

OK, marrying your daughter. There are significant health reasons why it shouldn't happen. You are also likely to be the guardian of that child, which is effectively a power relationship, which i think means you will be abusing your position of authority in your childs life. 

Think of the children Donk, they would be there own uncle or aunty... that's just weird.



da_donkey said:


> no i am not saying that at all, hetrosexual people also have the animalistic urge for self gratification.
> 
> Im just accepting of what it is.
> 
> ...


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Donks answer me this ...if you had children and as a proud dad ,you would love your children no matter what, is this true? and you would do what ever to support them,. is this true?
> NOW suppose you had a gay child do you with draw your love and support now cause they arent the same as you ?
> do you stop loving them cause they arent the same as you? do you shun them and ignore them and allow people to bully them and disrespect them ?
> do you wipe your hands of them and walk away ?




No not at all RBB i have alot of gay friends and support them as they are Good people.

and if i ever had a gay child i would support them in whatever they needed.

im just saying its not an easy answer and the line has to be drawn somewhere and at this point in time marrige is for hetros only.

please dont take anything im saying as degogetory, i am only fueling debate.

donks


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> You don't seem to be able to look passed the sexual aspect of being gay donkey.




because i said at the start put "love" aside as it is a man made thing.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't know how someone can have plenty of gay friends and still believe they don't deserve equality.

Why do people who are against gay marriage act like they'll be forced to sit and watch the act of two men having sex if it's approved?


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> .
> 
> They might not be able to procreate naturally but maybe the all mighty put them here to adopt our unwanted children? Hm.



bhahahahah and you think my arguments are grasping at straws?????

Oh yes the big man on the cloud made gay people so they can all go around saving poor little ophan children....hahah wake me up!

donks


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> I don't know how someone can have plenty of gay friends and still believe they don't deserve equality.
> 
> Why do people who are against gay marriage act like they'll be forced to sit and watch the act of two men having sex if it's approved?




when have i ever said that i dont think gay people deserve equility or that gay men are going to be having sex all over the city streets if gay marrige is legal?????? not once!
in my first post i said that they should have equal rights to each othere super-anuattion ect ect
.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

Well.. if you had read the rest of my posts you'd understand i don't believe in the all mighty to begin with so clearly that isn't my actual opinion, it's almost as ridiculous as comparing gays with horses.


----------



## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

So why are you arguing then?


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

hypochondroac said:


> Well.. if you had read the rest of my posts you'd understand i don't believe in the all mighty to begin with so clearly that isn't my actual opinion, it's almost as ridiculous as comparing gays with horses.


 
so you post things that are not your opinion??

i think you have discredited yourself enough for me, goodnight Hypo


----------



## Laghairt (Nov 18, 2010)

I think the most surprising thing about this thread is redbellybite's liberal attitude towards the issue of gay rights which is out of step with her general approach to such issues.

Regulars on the forum will recall that she has was recently warned for making racist posts and been very outspoken in her intolerance of other members views and lifestyle choices (like vegetarianism for example). Perhaps she can begin extending this previously unseen tolerance to other areas if her life.


----------



## remington (Nov 18, 2010)

[FONT=&quot]Gay rights= to keep it a secret[/FONT]


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

i belive that RBB started this thread because she wants what her son wants, i dont think that too much thought other than that went into it.

And i am not having a go at you RBB, like you said RBB he is your child and you are supporting him.

I tell you one thing though! if i was a horses hoof i surely would not want a certificate from a religion that thinks that my lifestyle is an abomination!

donks


----------



## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

anouc said:


> I think the most surprising thing about this thread is redbellybite's liberal attitude towards the issue of gay rights which is out of step with her general approach to such issues.
> 
> Regulars on the forum will recall that she has was recently warned for making racist posts and been very outspoken in her intolerance of other members views and lifestyle choices (like vegetarianism for example). Perhaps she can begin extending this previously unseen tolerance to other areas if her life.



RBB approach to many issues is a passionate and often emphatic one, but never have I seen her give an opinion or offer advice that wasn't considered.


----------



## da_donkey (Nov 18, 2010)

its pretty quiet in here now? funny how the rainbow flag waving hippys disapear when there idealistic ideas are put to sleep.


(and yes i am stirring now with my discriptions lol)

donks


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## Laghairt (Nov 18, 2010)

A quick flick through her posts will provide plenty of examples.


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> its pretty quiet in here now? funny how the rainbow flag waving hippys disapear when there idealistic ideas are put to sleep.
> 
> 
> (and yes i am stirring now with my discriptions lol)
> ...


 
I am still at work and am struggling to write replies between working.... and planning my BIG FAT GAY WEDDING for when it is finally my right to marry.


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## ozziepythons (Nov 18, 2010)

There always has been and always will be love without marriage, and marriage without love. The world still turns and we all get on with life. 

But if the idea of not having a legally recognised gay marriage in Australia bothers you, please spare a thought for the gay people in nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia, for whom life is unbearable. The hatred and oppression they are forced to endure has to be seen to be believed. Living hell comes to mind.


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## Defective (Nov 18, 2010)

redbellybite said:


> Well some already know and some may not ,I am a mother of a lovely 23 year old Gay man ,and it infuriates me that he along with other gay people ,dont have the same rights as my younger hetro sexual son&daughters have. He pays his taxes ,he votes,he obeys the general laws,basically lives a law abiding life YET is discriminated against because his sexual preference is of the same sex ,so this means he isnt allowed to have an acknowledged ceremony and a fully licenced marriage certificate .
> IT SUX ...Gay people have to abide by all laws in this country and suffer the consequences if they break them ,just like any hetro sexual ..yet gay people are still treated like second class humans when it comes to full filling their life with a partner that they want to commit to for the rest of their days ...
> 
> OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO GET WITH THE TIMES AND STOP ACTING LIKE THE KKK OF THE YESTERYEAR :evil::evil::evil::evil:


 
here's some good news. socialscapegoat.com ? Green’s marriage equality motion passes so this will mean that hopefully all same sex relationships that wish to get married will legally be able to and wont have to go to california. hope this makes you smile for a while.


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## Snakewoman (Nov 18, 2010)

Snowman said:


> Seems like Christians and religion gets bashed more by society than gays, if APS is any reflection of society that is.
> Just live and let live. Unless someone is bible bashing I can't see a problem with them. Some of the nicest people I have met are christians and some of the nicest people I met are gay. You cant label all groups the same as it's made up of individuals. It's sad that both groups are bashed and put down on this thread.


 
Thank you Snowman, I find it very hypocritical that some people are on here complaining about how people aren't being treated equally and then put religious people down. EVERYONE is entitled to have an opinion as long as they're not being pushy with it... I hate it when people are pushy!

RBB, this is a great thread and I wish you and your son all the best. I have a family member and a friend who are gay, and they get put through unnecessary crap. They're people too, and if someone doesn't like what they do they can stay away, and shut their mouths.


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## Defective (Nov 18, 2010)

also can i just say i'm hetroflexible! and its great!


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## SomeGuy (Nov 18, 2010)

This might be a stupid question but I have wanted to know the answer for a while,

Do Gay people get turned on by themselves?


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

ozziepythons said:


> I just wanted to know your type, just to make this thread more interesting



Are you my type????


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

SomeGuy said:


> This might be a stupid question but I have wanted to know the answer for a while,
> 
> Do Gay people get turned on by themselves?


 
OMG...... this is so ridiculous hahahahahahaha-


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## Nik (Nov 18, 2010)

SomeGuy said:


> This might be a stupid question but I have wanted to know the answer for a while,
> 
> Do Gay people get turned on by themselves?



That's awesome, I'm not turned on by myself, I'm not even my 'type'.


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## -Peter (Nov 18, 2010)

Wallypod said:


> show me the studies that prove that it is not a choice?



The only way this could be construed as a valid comment is either because the person making it is gay and feels that they have decided not to be and succeeded or they have access to valid studies that show that it is a choice.


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## -Peter (Nov 18, 2010)

SomeGuy said:


> This might be a stupid question but I have wanted to know the answer for a while,
> 
> Do Gay people get turned on by themselves?



Yes they do, straight people also get turned on by themselves. Its called masterbation.


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## SomeGuy (Nov 18, 2010)

Cheers guys, that answers the question lol

I know we can turn ourselves on kinda, but I meant like how straight people check out other sex and gay people check out people of the same sex, being the same sex do they get turned on looking in the mirror if they are hot etc.


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## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

-Peter said:


> Yes they do, straight people also get turned on by themselves. Its called masterbation.



Sickburn.


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## affroalex (Nov 18, 2010)

SomeGuy said:


> This might be a stupid question but I have wanted to know the answer for a while,
> 
> Do Gay people get turned on by themselves?


 

LOL OMG are you serious LOL,


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## wiz-fiz (Nov 18, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> The pope just came out an said only a few weeks ago that HIV/AIDS is gods punishment to gays. *** ?!?!?!?!?! Burn in hell you sadistic old man! It was also said by him that elderly priests who are found to have been pedophiles in their younger years should not be punished !!!!! Well if people are taking advice from this man then god help humanity!!!
> For those who are interested, there are GAY RIGHTS RALLIES in many capital cities this saturday the 20th november! Go and show your support.... PLEASE.


 
What the ****** is wrong with the pope? if he thinks pedophiles should not be punished and he says that, imagine what he has done in his childhood?

Also imagine if the pope was gay... LOL.


Will


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## Wookie (Nov 18, 2010)

The argument of whether homosexuality is caused by environmental or physiological factors will never be solved because it is the kind of think that can't be proved either way. As a science based student, personally I believe that there is a physiological difference that contributes in a minor way to homosexuality, though I believe it is largely based on environmental factors. That said, doesn't really matter what makes you gay, as they say "we're here, we're queer, get used to it". Homosexuals may not be allowed to get married, which some will fight for and some will fight against, but being treated as equals is something everybody regardless of their sexual orientation should be afforded.


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Brodak_Moment said:


> though I believe it is largely based on environmental factors. .



I really don't understand this argument. As i have said in my previous post. My dad is a brickie. I grew up surrounded my motorbike racing. V8's. hard labour etc. RBB's sone grew up in rural QLD too.

????????????????????????


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## Scleropages (Nov 18, 2010)

About time to agree to disagree people!


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## Kurto (Nov 18, 2010)

Some muslim countries hand out capital punishment for same sex relations! I just think any gay in Australia should thank their lucky stars they were born into a westernised culture, where they have the right to rally for anything.......


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## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 18, 2010)

This thread is going in circles


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## Ships (Nov 18, 2010)

+1


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Kurto said:


> Some muslim countries hand out capital punishment for same sex relations! I just think any gay in Australia should thank their lucky stars they were born into a westernised culture, where they have the right to rally for anything.......



So because there are other countries who aren't as progressive as ours...... we should settle for unequal rights???

I really feel for other individuals who are persecuted etc..... but as the western societies bring EVERYTHING to equal, then it puts even more pressure on the more developing countries.


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## Wally (Nov 18, 2010)

Kurto said:


> Some muslim countries hand out capital punishment for same sex relations! I just think any gay in Australia should thank their lucky stars they were born into a westernised culture, where they have the right to rally for anything.......



And the gay people amongst us are asking for something. I'm listening.


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## Jay84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks Wally76


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## Recharge (Nov 18, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> I tell you one thing though! if i was a horses hoof i surely would not want a certificate from a religion that thinks that my lifestyle is an abomination!
> donks


 
religion has nothing to do with a legal licence certificate of marriage, so there for the arguement and point are moot.


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## Recharge (Nov 18, 2010)

Tahlia said:


> Thank you Snowman, I find it very hypocritical that some people are on here complaining about how people aren't being treated equally and then put religious people down. EVERYONE is entitled to have an opinion as long as they're not being pushy with it... I hate it when people are pushy!
> 
> RBB, this is a great thread and I wish you and your son all the best. I have a family member and a friend who are gay, and they get put through unnecessary crap. They're people too, and if someone doesn't like what they do they can stay away, and shut their mouths.


 
whilst everyone has a right to their opinion taglia, people DON'T have the right to suppress the rights of other consenting adults.
religious people (generalising) tend to do just this, and church groups most defiantly.
it isn't hypercritical at all to call upon the religion for their views when they themselves wish to restrict the rights of others.

pushing for equal rights isn't being pushy, it's being FAIR.
the same as you have the right to vote because there was a push in the 50's for it. it was seen as unnatural for women to be outspoken, have jobs or have a say in a man's would, would you like to go back to that era?


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## Australis (Nov 18, 2010)

For anyone wanting to use the bible / christian mythology as a justification against homosexuals marrying, do you also appose Muslims marrying in Australia?
Do you think the earth is flat? 



ozziepythons said:


> Snowman do you think APS users being herpers, and herpetology being a branch of science, is a reason for this? Citizens with a greater appreciation of the sciences tend to understand (if not completly understand) evolutionary theory.


 
Exactly!


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## hypochondroac (Nov 18, 2010)

Recharge is amazing.


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## FAY (Nov 18, 2010)

Scleropages said:


> About time to agree to disagree people!




Umm well said.


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