# Can anyone ID this frog??



## karasha (Jan 28, 2012)

We found this frog after heavy rain, in Avenel (15km north Seymour, Vic). My Field guide key suggests it to be Litoria tyleri, however its distribution doesn't come this far south. Would it more likely be a Litoria peronii?? Any thoughts?? 
Greatly appreciated


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## Aussie-Pride (Jan 28, 2012)

I have no idea what it is as I'm not really into frogs but that one looks sweet, love the eyes on it and the green specs.


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## dihsmaj (Jan 28, 2012)

peronii probably


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## JordanG (Jan 28, 2012)

looks like the perons i get here  so id say peronii 
Jordan


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## GeckPhotographer (Jan 28, 2012)

I'd say it's Lit.peronii what feature did the key use to say it was Litoria tylerii? Also if you want absolute surety a photograph of the leg stretched out showing the groin and thigh region from above is necessary.


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## vicherps (Jan 28, 2012)

Definitely a Peron's Tree Frog (Litoria peronii)


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 3, 2012)

+ 1 based on locality and eye, apart from colour and pattern.

Blue


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 3, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> + 1 based on locality and eye, apart from colour and pattern.
> 
> Blue



Emerald spots + diamond pupil, dead give away of L.peronii



GeckPhotographer said:


> I'd say it's Lit.peronii what feature did the key use to say it was Litoria tylerii? Also if you want absolute surety a photograph of the leg stretched out showing the groin and thigh region from above is necessary.



I am really, really surprised you weren't certain of this ID, it has now made me curious, what other spp. were you considering?


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## GeckPhotographer (Feb 3, 2012)

Josh, Litoria tylerii almost always have diamond spots and can also have a diamond pupil although usually less pronounced. Neither are key identifying characteristics and the diamond spots shouldn't even be considered. Because the shot is taken in the day it's colour is of no help as both frogs turn the same colour in the day. Due to locality it should be L.peronii but I prefer to see a key identifying characteristic before being sure, especially since frogs are so good at being transported to places they shouldn't.


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 3, 2012)

GeckPhotographer said:


> Josh, Litoria tylerii almost always have diamond spots and can also have a diamond pupil although usually less pronounced. Neither are key identifying characteristics and the diamond spots shouldn't even be considered. Because the shot is taken in the day it's colour is of no help as both frogs turn the same colour in the day. Due to locality it should be L.peronii but I prefer to see a key identifying characteristic before being sure, especially since frogs are so good at being transported to places they shouldn't.



Ok thanks, I thought you would have a good reason, that why I asked.
Thanks for the tip!!!


I had no idea until today that L.tylerii looked so alike, I was always under the impression the eyes + spots were unique to L.peronii, it no makes me wonder if I have come across this frog before thinking it was a Perons?
I will always check the inner leg area now to be 100%.

Cheers Josh


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## GeckPhotographer (Feb 3, 2012)

There's also a difference between the body shape but I can only notice that when I have the animal in the hand, at night time they usually look totally different.


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 4, 2012)

*Geckophotographer*, 
There are a number features visible I wouls consider diagnostic... 
The skin fold from the eye to the forearm is black in colour. It is never black in _L. tyleri_.
The iris, in particular the upper iris, is golden in _L._ _tyleri_ but not in _L. peroni_.
_L. peroni_ has varying degrees of yellow between the digits, which does not occur in _L. tyleri_. 
_L. peroni_ has varying degrees of yellow on the inside arm opposite the elbow, not seen in _L. tyleri_. 

Blue


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## vicherps (Feb 4, 2012)

Bluetongue1 the skin fold is known as the supratympanic fold which is edged with black in L. peronii which L.tyleri lacks.

I also believe that L.tyleri has yellow armpits, groin and back of the thighs but in L.peronii is a stronger yellow marbled with black (I have seen pics of tyleri with black specs on the groin region but it's not as vibrant nor extensive.


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## froggyboy86 (Feb 4, 2012)

Its a Litoria peroni. L. tyleri doesn't occur in central Vic.


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## GeckPhotographer (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks blue I'll be sure to look for those in future pictures. In the hand I find Tyler's and Peron's to have a hugely different shape so I have never particularly needed to know all of the key characters. 

Micah, Tyler's actually have more yellow on their groin and thigh but it is not as bright as perons and the deliniation from the colouring on top of the leg to the yellow groinal colour is not as sharp. In Peron's the deliniation is rather defined and there is sharp black marbling in the groin as apposed to the 'dirty' markings in the groin of Tyler's. I've also favored this as the best characteristic. 



> Its a Litoria peroni. L. tyleri doesn't occur in central Vic.


I take your point, and I do consider distribution (although I actually didn't look till after my first post here cause they said they keyed it to Tyler's leading me to assume it was withing range), but Lit.peronii aren't supposed to occur around Melbourne and they certainly do.


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## vicherps (Feb 4, 2012)

totally agree there's no doubt that it's a Peron's

Tyler's Tree Frogs have yellow coloring on their groin armpits thighs and webbing but I have notice a number of specimens with faint black markings but it ain't as vibrant as the Peron's Tree Frog. Also Peron's do occur around Melbourne naturally in the northern and eastern suburbs. However there are a few records on the peninsula (south of Melbourne) that they persist which are few and far between. This could of been an hitched hiked population from wood collected in the box ironbark region where a lot of wood has been transported throughout Victoria. but they probs have always been present in Melbourne where they do occur

they are less common around Melbourne than other places such as central, northern and eastern Victoria. But there have always been pops in northern parts of Melbourne or places approaching Melbourne.


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## froggyboy86 (Feb 4, 2012)

GeckPhotographer said:


> I take your point, and I do consider distribution (although I actually didn't look till after my first post here cause they said they keyed it to Tyler's leading me to assume it was withing range), but Lit.peronii aren't supposed to occur around Melbourne and they certainly do.



Who or what says that L. peroni doesn't occur in Melbourne? 

The silver iris, cross-hair pupil, black edging to supratympanic fold and distribution indicates it cannot be anything other than L. peroni...


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 5, 2012)

vicherps said:


> Bluetongue1 the skin fold is known as the supratympanic fold which is edged with black in L. peronii which L.tyleri lacks.


I am a little uncertain what you are correcting here... that I did not state that the skin fold is only EDGED in black? or are you saying _L. tyleri_ lacks this fold entirely? ....


vicherps said:


> .... I also believe that L.tyleri has yellow armpits, groin and back of the thighs but in L. peronii is a stronger yellow marbled with black (I have seen pics of tyleri with black specs on the groin region but it's not as vibrant nor extensive.


We deliberately did not discuss colours on the proximal region of limbs and associated trunk areas as these were not visible. Also, I have very deliberately steered away from the use of comparative terms as these are dependent upon an individual's experience and interpretation. I trust you will forgive me if I rephrase the colouring information in more absolute terms...

_L. peroni_ has the groin, armpits and backs of the thigh are yellow and black. In _L. tyleri_ the groin, armpits and backs of the thigh are yellow with some brown mottling in the groin and on the backs of the thighs.



froggyboy86 said:


> ....The silver iris, cross-hair pupil, black edging to supratympanic fold and distribution indicates it cannot be anything other than L. peroni...


 As *Geckophotographer* pointed out in an earlier post, _L. tyleri_ also has a cross-shaped pupil, though generally not as distinct as _L_. _peroni_. So the question was, if we ignored distribution, what other features could we use to distinguish between _L. peroni_ and _L. tyleri_? Unfortunately that question was tacitly understood rather than explicitly stated. I suspect this accounts for the efforts to ensure the correct identification. None-the-less, the input is definitely appreciated.

Blue


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## karasha (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks for ur thoughts, im using A Field Guide to Frogs of Australia by Martyn Robinson. now re going over the key i agree that its a peroni not a tyleri. it was mainly the eye colour and the thigh colouring that i wasnt sure about its not clear in the pictures but i didnt remember any bold yellow and brown/black thighs.


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## vicherps (Feb 6, 2012)

Bluetongue1 when you were going through diagnostic characteristics u said skin fold. About the fold I said that the Peron's Tree Frog has black edging to the fold whereas L.tyleri doesn't have the black edging. You just called it skin fold And I said that the skin fold is known as the supratympanic fold I said this because I was unsure if u were certain of the true name of the fold above the tympanum. By the looks of the mottling, specs or markings what ever you want to call it that are located on the armpits, groin and thighs are mostly yellow in tyleri and a little mottling which is dark brown to black in coloration. The webbing in tyleri can be yellow but in peronii it is mottled with yellow and dark brown/black. Now regarding the status of wheather iTt's a Peron's Tree or a Tyler's which u guys should no by now due to the diagnostic features listed throught the thread that is a Peron's Tree Frog. Its highly unlikely for Tyler's to get displaced in Seymour in central Vic and I have heard no reports of Tyler's displace around seymour nor the rest of Victoria there. It's not on the normal dse private wildlife licence to keep as pets so not many people would keep them making nearly impossible for it to be a Tyler's. I no its definitely a Peron's.


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