# Help please? Baby snake/legless lizard, black head with white stripes, brown body??



## compliKate (Mar 18, 2013)

I just found this little guy on my driveway in Townsville (north QLD). Problem is, I've never come across one before. I am absolutely clueless as to whether he's a snake or legless lizard, and he's so small! Please help.

Description: ~15cm long, brown body, black head with 4 white stripes on head. Creamy underside. Very quick, very 'thrashy'.

I even thought he was a worm at first from how he was thrashing- until I saw those perfect little scales. Thank you!


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## levy_john (Mar 18, 2013)

I believe its a (delma torquata) a legless lizard


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## compliKate (Mar 18, 2013)

Thank you so very much! It's pretty far out of its alleged range according to the government site. Thanks again, have a great day!


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## GeckPhotographer (Mar 18, 2013)

Definitely a Delma, pretty sure D.tincta it's definitely not torquata.


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## compliKate (Mar 18, 2013)

Ah, that has a more likely range for sure. Thanks!


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## Bushman (Mar 18, 2013)

I agree that it's definitely a legless lizard or Pygopod of the genus Delma and probably _D. tincta_.
You have to be very careful not to confuse these with juvenile brown snakes (Pseudonaja sp.) which are highly venomous as you no doubt know.
I can see that you're a vet science student, so I don't want to assume that you don't know how to handle herps, however I should advise that it's best not to handle an unknown species and although you're restraining its head, there's still a risk of being bitten. 

Identifying features that distinguish legless lizards from snakes is the very long tail of the former, compared to the latter. The tail starts at the vent, which is clearly seen in your photo. Snakes like Pseudonaja sp. have a relatively short tail (~20% of snout-vent length), whereas Pygopods have relatively long tails that are always longer than the body (if it's the original tail i.e not regrown) in all species that I know of. I don't know D. tincta but other closely related Delma sp. tails are around 200-250% of S-V length. Look for the point where the body noticeably tapers, which approximates where the vent is.
There are some other features to look for, like a single dark nape band in brown snakes compared to two in Delma. Also look for tiny ear holes that are present in all Pygopods but not in snakes.
Pygopods also have hind flaps of varying sizes but they are always present and clearly visible and are located beside the vent.
I hope this helps you tell the difference between Pygopods and Elapids in future.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 18, 2013)

A pygopod (legless lizard) because it has a visible ear opening, limb flap is visible at the side of the vent, the tail (from vent back) is longer than the snout-vent length (which results in a long, slow tapering of the animal to the tail tip) and the ventral scales are paired (not single).

Definitely an Excitable Delma (_Delma tincta_). _D. torquata_ has a dark reticulum under the throat and neck and the tail is 1 – 1½ the body length. In _D. tincta_ the tail is 2 – 2½ times the body length. 

_D.tincta _and _toquata_ look almost identical, until you know what to look for. The head colours fade with age in _tincta_ but are generally retained in _torquata. 

_Blue

EDIT: Sorry Bushman, I had the window open so I did not know you has posted.


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## GeckPhotographer (Mar 18, 2013)

> Definitely an Excitable Delma (_Delma tincta). D. torquata has a dark reticulum under the throat and neck and the tail is 1 – 1½ the body length. InD. tincta the tail is 2 – 2½ times the body length._



Those may be literature values but my limited experience of D.tincta within the distribution of D.torquata is that they have much shorter tails than other areas of their geographic range, closer to 1 1/2 their body length.


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