# Urgent Help!!!!!!!



## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

I just found my baby bluetongue in his cage and it seems like his front legs are powerless, and isnt regualy sticking out his tongue. He is around 1 month old and we just started givind gim little chunks of mince. We have another baby blue in the same cage and he is fine.

Please can some one help:cry: :cry: :cry:


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

take him to a vet

what heating are you using ?
cheers
brad


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

im using a normal heat mat with kitty litter as the base and occastionaly i put the light on


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

and how old is your other bluey ?
as in young blue tongue's they will need uv light as they can die without it
cheers
brad


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

they are from same clutch and the breeder that i got it off recomended not giving it to much u.v light


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

yes but thats as they age 
but when there young i would use it 
cheers
brad


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

ok so what suld i do now its 5:57 pm and the vet is closed suld i turn the light on or wat?


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

what colour are his eyes ?


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

puple iz black and aound puple brown normal. It is weird tho it seems his hole front part of body is paralized his back legs are fine but front legs are powerless


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## serpenttongue (Jan 22, 2007)

Has he swallowed a pellet of cat litter that has become caught in the thoat? Were they exposed to higher temps than usual in this hot weather we've had?

I doubt it's anything to do with UV light. For years i've raised my blueys to sub-adults without UV light without any problems.

How does his spine look? Does he climb the walls often?


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

he may have some mince caught in his throught. Is there a way 2 remove it


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> Has he swallowed a pellet of cat litter that has become caught in the thoat? Were they exposed to higher temps than usual in this hot weather we've had?
> 
> I doubt it's anything to do with UV light. For years i've raised my blueys to sub-adults without UV light without any problems.
> 
> How does his spine look? Does he climb the walls often?



i have :S
i didnt think i would need it either
but they(i had 2 babie blueys) got realy sick so i rang the bloke who i bought them of and he told me what to do and then one of them died a week or two later
cheers
brad


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

his spine looks fine, culd this problem resolve its self?


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## hodges (Jan 22, 2007)

not to sure
my bluey's eyes went white (so i used warm salty water to wash them)
it didnt work every well
take him to a vet tomorrow 
cheers
brad


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## brad12212 (Jan 22, 2007)

ok i will take him 2 the breeder i got it from he is an expert when it comes 2 reptile. He comes on this site GARTHNFAY he will know wat 2 do


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## FAY (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Brad,
If his front legs aren't working....sounds like something has happened to his spine.
Have any children been handling it?????
Has something happened to injure the spine???
Garth


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## timthevet (Jan 22, 2007)

Usually the rear legs are affected first with spinal problems. Would be concerned that you aren't using UV lighting and are feeding mince meat - sounds like a combo for metabolic bone disease. Would get it to the vet.


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## FAY (Jan 22, 2007)

timthevet said:


> Usually the rear legs are affected first with spinal problems. Would be concerned that you aren't using UV lighting and are feeding mince meat - sounds like a combo for metabolic bone disease. Would get it to the vet.



Hi Tim,
The bluies are only about two weeks old......surely the bones wouldn't be affected so soon.......?


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## timthevet (Jan 22, 2007)

Young animals have higher requirements for calcium and vitamin D due to bone growth and are therefore more susceptible to deficiencies.


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## brad12212 (Jan 23, 2007)

today his back legs arent working and has a lump near his back legs. i am really worried. it seems like he carnt even see me


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## salebrosus (Jan 23, 2007)

I'd pass on the mince.....they like it but mince is usually made of meat that's not far from going off and they put chemicals in it to make it look red......stick with fruit and veg. what else have you been feeding it?

Simone.


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## cuddlykylie (Jan 23, 2007)

take him to the vet, he has a calcium defeciency


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## OdessaStud (Jan 23, 2007)

Brad take him to the vet.It can be very dangerous for people to diagnose problems without seeing the animal.An overdose of calcium can do just as much damage as a defeciency I understand the good intentions of others but taking the advise of new herp owners can be more trouble than its worth.
Unfortunatly too often people asking for help and advise are given it by kids with very little experience and this on its own can cause a multitude of problems.
Id like to see a section that only experienced keepers ie J and C, can answer questions related to the health concerns of herps. JMO


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## Isis (Jan 23, 2007)

What is it with people on here. If there is something not right with your reptile take it to a vet. I think it is cruel if you dont and could be classed as abuse. Especially if it something like paralysis. Its not rocket science, the longer you leave it the more chance there is of it getting beyond help. Dont waste time with asking questions here and waiting for replies, people on here are not vets.
If you truly respect and love your herp get it to a vet. If you cant afford the bills then you should re think having pets.


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## Chris1 (Jan 23, 2007)

natural sunlight will help if it is a calcium deficiency, and calcium rich foods,...but ofcourse he'll have to see a vet to see if thats really whats wrong,...


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## salebrosus (Jan 23, 2007)

Giddy up...Odie, i hear that!!!!!!!

As for getting animals to vets i know i'd rather wait a week to get in to see Terri Bellamy or drive to Crows Nest to see David Vella than take my animals to a local dog/cat vet. I worked for a vet that was as useless as [email protected] on a rug. Unfortunately some of thse kids don't have the luxury of being able to drive their animals to a vet.

Simone.


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## Isis (Jan 23, 2007)

I understand that a lot of the people on here are kids, as a parent though I woild not let any of my kids get a pet of any description unless I was prepared to take responsibility for getting them to vets when needed and covering costs if needed. I live 3hrs from the closest herp vet and if any of mine need i take the 3 hr drive. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination and I work full time but I have agreed to having pets and take full responsibility for their welfare.You wouldnt make a person wait until it was convenient for you if they had something potentially serious wrong with them.Taking on pets brings with it the responsibility of taking care of them and their welfare at any time needed. As I said if you dont have the means to take proper care then dont get the pet.
The lizard in this post is deteriorating and you have a go at me. This is neglect.

And yes Odessa what a good idea. A lot of these kids give advice that makes me cringe. Perhaps there is a vet among us that could reply to queries.


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## Mystery (Jan 23, 2007)

Isis said:


> I understand that a lot of the people on here are kids, as a parent though I woild not let any of my kids get a pet of any description unless I was prepared to take responsibility for getting them to vets when needed and covering costs if needed. I live 3hrs from the closest herp vet and if any of mine need i take the 3 hr drive. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination and I work full time but I have agreed to having pets and take full responsibility for their welfare.You wouldnt make a person wait until it was convenient for you if they had something potentially serious wrong with them.Taking on pets brings with it the responsibility of taking care of them and their welfare at any time needed. As I said if you dont have the means to take proper care then dont get the pet.
> The lizard in this post is deteriorating and you have a go at me. This is neglect.
> 
> And yes Odessa what a good idea. A lot of these kids give advice that makes me cringe. Perhaps there is a vet among us that could reply to queries.



Well said - I agree totally!!!!! TAKE IT TO THE VET


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## brad12212 (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks every one for your help i now know it was constipated from a little 2 much overfeeding


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## timthevet (Jan 24, 2007)

How did you diagnose constipation? And has it recovered? Weird signs (paresis of forelimbs) for constipation.


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## HerpDoc (Jan 24, 2007)

Totally agree with Tim, this is a very unusual presentation for constipation. The most common thing to see in animals with this condition are bloating, inappetance and cloacal prolapse not forelimb paresis. There are a multitude of conditions that may present like this and MBD would be high on the list especially given the husbandry conditions you listed.
As far as taking animals to the vet a little common sense is required. If you were sick (ie paralysed) would you wait a week to see the doctor?? The earlier animals are seen by a professional the greater the chance of diagnosis and resolution of the problem.


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## Mystery (Jan 24, 2007)

HerpDoc said:


> Totally agree with Tim, this is a very unusual presentation for constipation. The most common thing to see in animals with this condition are bloating, inappetance and cloacal prolapse not forelimb paresis. There are a multitude of conditions that may present like this and MBD would be high on the list especially given the husbandry conditions you listed.
> As far as taking animals to the vet a little common sense is required. If you were sick (ie paralysed) would you wait a week to see the doctor?? The earlier animals are seen by a professional the greater the chance of diagnosis and resolution of the problem.



Well said herpdoc - good to have people like you and Tim around.


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## serpenttongue (Jan 24, 2007)

HerpDoc said:


> There are a multitude of conditions that may present like this and MBD would be high on the list especially given the husbandry conditions you listed.


 
I dont think he listed the husbandry conditions, did he?


Brad, hard to believe that it's constipation. Mince is something that digests easily, even in cold weather. Its more likely to be a blockage caused by swallowing a foreign object (like a cat litter pellet), rather than constipation.

I also dont believe it's Metabolic Bone disorder, not yet. 2 weeks old is too young for a bluey to get it in my opinion.

You sure the spine is okay? No obvious dents or humps in the back?

So anyway Brad, has the Bluey passed a motion? How do you know it's constipation? 

Just interested, that's all.


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## Isis (Jan 24, 2007)

Serpant tongue, your questioning a vets opinion........where did you get your degree in vet science from?????? Grow up people and start to listen to the real experts that are trying to help. The neglect and cruelty shown in some peoples attitudes here is really frightening.
To the vets that are trying to help good luck breaking through the ignorance shown by a lot of people on this forum.


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## brad12212 (Jan 24, 2007)

Thank you every body but i found my baby bluey dead this morning the lump was gorn but he was dead


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## debaig (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey Brad, sorry too hear the poor bluey died. Have a good look thru the posts in this thread. hopefully you'll realize that this site is fantastic for general advice and help in non life threatening situations but will never help a sick and / or dying animal. Only a vet or very experienced herper face to face with the animal will help sometimes. I really hope you learn from your mistakes. And please don't think I'm having a go, just encouraging.


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## serpenttongue (Jan 24, 2007)

Isis said:


> Serpant tongue, your questioning a vets opinion........where did you get your degree in vet science from??????


 
No i'm not!! What makes you say that??:?


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## da_donkey (Jan 24, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> No i'm not!! What makes you say that??:?


 

im with you ST,

Your advice was sound and not questioning the other members posts.

donk


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## FAY (Jan 24, 2007)

Isis said:


> Serpant tongue, your questioning a vets opinion........where did you get your degree in vet science from?????? Grow up people and start to listen to the real experts that are trying to help. The neglect and cruelty shown in some peoples attitudes here is really frightening.
> To the vets that are trying to help good luck breaking through the ignorance shown by a lot of people on this forum.



ST may not be a vet....but has had heaps of experience....which a lot of vets don't have!
I personally value his opinions greatly as with TB and other experienced keepers on this site that aren't vets!!! Experience is more than any degree!!
And yes....my experience with some vets, I WOULD question them!!!

And practically every post that you make Isis is to have a go at someone or another, why don't you just chill out!!


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## tommomotto (Jan 24, 2007)

im with serpenttongue on this one sounds like he knows his stuff ,from personal experience i agree with everything said including the bit about u.v. light reqs.


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## Isis (Jan 24, 2007)

Sorry Garthandfay if my concern for an animals welfare offends you. I never said that ST wasnt experienced but there are times when experience has to be pushed aside for an experts qualified opinion. And yes I do realise that not all vets are experienced or qualified to treat or diagnose reptiles but I would thing that Dr Sheeling is more than amply qualified to make the statements he did. I know whos opinion I would be listening to.


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## MrBredli (Jan 24, 2007)

Isis said:


> Sorry Garthandfay if my concern for an animals welfare offends you. I never said that ST wasnt experienced...


 
No you didn't, but you did accuse him of questioning a vet's opinion...? We're still waiting for you to point out where he did this? :?


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## jordo (Jan 24, 2007)

Maybe some of the vets and other keepers in the know could create some articles on MBD, calcium defficiency (sp?), impaction etc. to put in wiki, I've been seeing a lot of these types of threads lately and with detailed notes on these problems we wouldn't have a shat fight everytime one of these "whats wrong with my lizard" threads is started.
jmo


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## salebrosus (Jan 25, 2007)

Isis said:


> Serpant tongue, your questioning a vets opinion........where did you get your degree in vet science from?????? Grow up people and start to listen to the real experts that are trying to help. The neglect and cruelty shown in some peoples attitudes here is really frightening.
> To the vets that are trying to help good luck breaking through the ignorance shown by a lot of people on this forum.



Ease up mate. I've had non specific reptile vets look at my animals...one said he was riduclously overweight, he was 10ft and 5 kilos. Terri Bellamy checked him out said there was nothing wrong with him and he was perfectly healthy. I had one animal that managed to dig it's way out of an enclosure that later got a small nip from my staffy who wanted to play with it. He didn't hurt her just scratched her tail. I couldn't get in to see Terri Bellamy for two weeks. Saw another vet who treated her for mites as her scales were slightly raised. It didn't get any better in a week and the vet told me to treat her every day till the scales went back down. I refused to treat her, i didn't trust this opinion and after the two weeks got into see Terri. Terri took a swab of the tail- turned out my Land Mullet had gotten a staph infection from the scratch off the dog. she lost half her tail. Simple fact is unless it is a fully qualified HERP vet i would much rather message serpenttongue or TB or anyone else on this site who has had the experience and also get a second opinion. If i'd left my Land Mullet to the first vet i would have lost the placid and very 'infamous" Marcia all because of somone's degree.

Simone.


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## OuZo (Jan 25, 2007)

Isis said:


> Serpant tongue, your questioning a vets opinion........where did you get your degree in vet science from??????


 
Over 20 years keeping reptiles maybe. Where did you get your attitude problem from lol :lol: 

Nothing personal against vets as I'm the first one to take my animals there as soon as I discover there's something wrong with them, but half the time I'd be just as happy if not happier if a trusted and experienced herper was to see my animal and give me advice. I think it's pretty hard to beat experience when it comes to reptiles as these people have been there, done that. Vet's can be great and also have access to the meds you'll sometimes need but I wouldn't necessarily take their word over a long time herper. As far as I'm aware there's no real in depth degree available for reptiles is there? Even when studying vet science? Don't herp vets learn a lot through research etc?

Either way, I think as long as people know who they're talking to they can decide whose advice they wish to take


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## timthevet (Jan 25, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> I dont think he listed the husbandry conditions, did he?


Husbandry = management in the care of animals which includes diet (mince meat in this case), and environment (no UV lighting).
In terms of qualifications on top of the veterinary degree - some vets will state an interest in herps which means they have undertaken extra study on reptiles (conferences, literature etc.). These vets will definitely be more experience to treat your herps. There is a specialization in reptile medicine & surgery but this degree isn't available in Australia.

johnbowemonie: In terms of your problems with vets, not saying whether anyone is right or wrong, but often a diagnosis will be incorrect initially and response to treatment is sometimes used to eliminate causes. Just watch 'House' on TV - great example of how they think one thing is the cause and treat that but later find out it was something else.


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## timthevet (Jan 25, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> Its more likely to be a blockage caused by swallowing a foreign object (like a cat litter pellet), rather than constipation.



Would be weird for a blockage to cause forelimb paresis aswell.



serpenttongue said:


> You sure the spine is okay? No obvious dents or humps in the back?



Also would be weird for a spinal problem to cause forelimb paresis cos the hindlimbs are usually affected first. Maybe a cranial (head) injury.


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## Christine (Jan 25, 2007)

would anyone here not recommend the newspaper pellets for blueys? i knew that pebbles could cause problems but didn't know about the pellets being a problem, is that what could have caused this problem for this bluey?
And also I just want to pass on my condolences and best wishes for the future for the animals that have passed in the last few days....this bluey and dymbacks 2 snakes and also frogger that died...can't remember the name of his owner, I am very sorry I don't mean to be rude...anyway I really feel for all of you and just want you to know that I feel terribly bad for all of you...if there is anyone else that has posted threads about their pets passing on I am really sorry to have missed it, but I feel bad for you too.


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## Christine (Jan 25, 2007)

Can ticks cause paralysis in bluey's the same way they do in dogs?
Don't shoot me down if that's a silly question I am new to reptiles.


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## timthevet (Jan 25, 2007)

Christine,
Any substrate which has objects small enough to be swallowed can cause intestinal obstructions even if the animal is fed in a separate area. Interesting question about ticks. Haven't heard of any cases but ticks can parasitise several species so it may be possible that the paralysis tick found on the east coast could also affect reptiles. Again, usually starts with hindlimbs.


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## Oxyuranus microlepid (Jan 25, 2007)

GARTHNFAY said:


> Hi Brad,
> If his front legs aren't working....sounds like something has happened to his spine.
> Have any children been handling it?????
> Has something happened to injure the spine???
> Garth


 
that makes no sense, the front legs cant be paralyzed without the back 1s as well


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## ben1200 (Jan 25, 2007)

on the talk of ticks on the way to my farm in goulburn NSW my dad picked up a blotch blue tongue from the road and moved it to the scrub and on closer inspection he found the poor blue was covered in ticks, which he removed in total 6 near its front limbs i think and on behind its head. just thought i would pass that on. sorry to hear about ur bluey.
regards ben


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## salebrosus (Jan 26, 2007)

timthevet said:


> Husbandry = management in the care of animals which includes diet (mince meat in this case), and environment (no UV lighting).
> In terms of qualifications on top of the veterinary degree - some vets will state an interest in herps which means they have undertaken extra study on reptiles (conferences, literature etc.). These vets will definitely be more experience to treat your herps. There is a specialization in reptile medicine & surgery but this degree isn't available in Australia.
> 
> johnbowemonie: In terms of your problems with vets, not saying whether anyone is right or wrong, but often a diagnosis will be incorrect initially and response to treatment is sometimes used to eliminate causes. Just watch 'House' on TV - great example of how they think one thing is the cause and treat that but later find out it was something else.



That's fair enough Tim, but in the case with my Land Mullet (the friendliest one in the world) if i had waited much longer on incorrect treatments my animal would have been dead. Not blaming the vet as he admitted he had no knowledge of reptiles and a particulare vet i worked for use to get me to diagnose what i thought might be wrong with reptiles then he would only forward them on to Terri Bellamy but charge them $40 for my consultation. I know there are some fantastic vets out there but those experiences have got me rather paranoid. I often go to Joe at Heathcote who is undertaking a reptile course and he seems pretty good too. 

Simone.


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## DA_GRIZ (Jan 26, 2007)

sorry to hear about your bluey brad, but i think mince is more for adult blueys


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## Christine (Jan 26, 2007)

timthevet said:


> Christine,
> Any substrate which has objects small enough to be swallowed can cause intestinal obstructions even if the animal is fed in a separate area. Interesting question about ticks. Haven't heard of any cases but ticks can parasitise several species so it may be possible that the paralysis tick found on the east coast could also affect reptiles. Again, usually starts with hindlimbs.


Thanks Tim, that information is useful.
And about the ticks...every single bluetongue that my son has every seen in the wild (backyard...next door neighbours...park...road...) has had ticks on it...usually in the ears but also in the creases around the front and back legs. We always take them off as well with tweezers...doesn't seem to bother the lizards at all when we do this, but I like to think that they are much happier when they go again without the ticks....and we always kill the ticks too.
We lost a dog a few years ago to tick paralysis and it was the most terrible thing, I hate the things and will always remove them off any bluey's.


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