# Exotics



## Tristis (Nov 4, 2006)

is anyone else sick of seeing exotics for sale or people asking for them?
i was at wildlife world last week and over herd someone say they got a corn snake as there first snake. give it 5 -10 years and we will have exotics everywhere. corns are staring to turn up on snake removals. i think corns and slider (slider are already a problem in some parts of oz) will be a big problem if nothing is done about them. 
what happens to the people that try and sell exotics on petlink? probabley a slap on the wrist.
anyone care to comment.


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## ex1dic (Nov 4, 2006)

yeah as for corns, what happens when they don't want them anymore? let them go.. when they should really be either euthanising them or chopping their heads off, hard to say whether more are
being smuggled into australia or the current snakes/turtles that are in australia are re-producing?


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## Tristis (Nov 4, 2006)

most are bred here.


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## junglejane (Nov 4, 2006)

I know of a person who has/had (dunno if they still got it) a corn snake, and i don'y know a great deal bout this sorta thing, but this is my opinion: beautiful friendly snakes, they do make great pets, i don't think they would do too much damage to the environment when compared to somethings that have been legally imported, its not as if they're poisonous, so its not as if we are in danger of death if one does bite. The only thing i think sux about this is, proper responsible snake ppl don't get to own these snakes after we've done all the right things, and idiots who know nothing keep them when really they don't deserve to own one. Um, i think i wouldn't mind seeing a few exotics allowed in Aus, America are going in leaps and bounds with colour morphs and crap even with our own bearded dragons!! We get left behind paying the same for a plain reptile as they do for a brightly coloured one and we can't even import our own native reptiles back from America, so that we can further our knowledge and experiment with different colour morphs. 
Please don't shoot, this is JMO, and i don't really know that much about this subject, these are just my own personal thoughts.
Jane


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## Slateman (Nov 4, 2006)

yey lets import them they friendly and not venomous. Mabe we can get some intergrades in future like woma x cornsnake.
Just joking people. I think that experts taking care of our wildlife protection do know what they doing.


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## ex1dic (Nov 4, 2006)

LOL woma x cornsnake! disaster! I agree Slateman, but the main problem is that wildlife protection don't know WHOs doing it.. makes it hard.


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## junglejane (Nov 4, 2006)

Don't bag me out, as i said JMO, i said i know nothing on the subject, they were just my thoughts, bet 1/2 the people here would own a corn if they were legal. Doesn't anyone think its unfair that americans get to use our natives and end up with better and brighter versions than us?


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## adbacus (Nov 4, 2006)

We do have our own form of native corn snake from my understanding - Boiga Irregulariris - The Brown Tree Snake. Correct me if I'm wrong. Why import when we have our own beautiful species?

Do we need another cane toad, slider turtle, mynah bird, asian house gecko or rabbit in our already fragile eco system?

We are already starting to reap the rewards of having exotics in private collections in previous years with the introduction of OPMV and IBD into Australian Collections. So introduce another species? - IMHO - I don't think so.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Nov 4, 2006)

Exotics are fine.
Mine are doing well


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## gillsy (Nov 4, 2006)

is the asian house gekko,exotic. If so are they the little ones found in every home in qld.

The little light coloured pinkish gekko.

If they are exotic why are they on the NSW reptile keepers species list.


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## Australis (Nov 4, 2006)

Yes AHG are exotic pests


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## adbacus (Nov 4, 2006)

They are allowed on the species list, but are meant to be kept under strict conditions from my understanding. AHG's are an introduced species that have established themselves in Northern Australia. 

I remember living as a kid overseas and these were everywhere and I used to catch and keep them in little glass jars for a few days, release them and get new ones.


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## SlothHead (Nov 4, 2006)

Why we are extoics, 

Does anyone care to divulge the exotic species that they have seen in Australia in personal collections, 

i.e. like the bloke in Western Sydney with the green anaconda

Anyone else


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## Jungletrans (Nov 4, 2006)

I know nothing about the person in Melb inner suburbs with the Boa . [ its not me ]:shock:


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## SlothHead (Nov 4, 2006)

There is someone that used to live in Cambletown i think it was, they had some Chameleons two pair.

Actually there was a Reptile shop, liverpool i think, the guys name was Manny or soemthing he had corn snakes etc, i dont think he is there any more

D


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## Tristis (Nov 4, 2006)

you can almost get anything you want . i was offerd hatchling cobras a few weeks ago at a pet shop in cambletown


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## SlothHead (Nov 4, 2006)

Which shop????

Things like this should probably be reported for the reasons as stated above


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## Tristis (Nov 4, 2006)

one of the bigger ones.


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## SlothHead (Nov 4, 2006)

Maybe some that was offered this, and has seen proof of this should make this known.

People can look at it as 'dobbing' or what ever, the simple fact of the matter is it is wrong, if people did the right thing to start with, there wouldnt be this issue with Corns, Sliders, 

Australia is under enough pressure without adding to the problem.

D


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## Slateman (Nov 4, 2006)

I know one fella who live with Comodo dragon.
She ocasionally cooks for him also. Truly exotic creature she is.


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## SlothHead (Nov 4, 2006)

Slate, 

i didnt realise you had been over lately 

D


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## Slateman (Nov 4, 2006)

Lol I am not talking about my exotic wife. My exotic is in beautiful gentle butterfly family not lizard.
Sexslatina is different cup of tea but.


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## hornet (Nov 4, 2006)

as far as i know nothing is done to sellers on petlink, i chucked up a false advert a while back to see what would happen, i got heaps of people wanting them but no1 telling me it was a bad thing


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## bug_collector (Nov 4, 2006)

false advert my *** lmao


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## Jason (Nov 5, 2006)

its getting very bad imo!!! iv had guys come in to the pet shop i work at telling me they have and breed like 5 different corn morphs boa ect....they tell me they sell like hot cakes and they make alot of cash so who cares about them being illegal! i have only have 2 people that havecome into the shop that breed on licence native, the rest just keep and breed exotics cause they are nicer. imo its getting to the point where it may be a good idea to allow NSW pet shops to sell herps this would make them more readily available and there for people wouldnt need to get exotics and more people would be aware of the laws ect. either way somthing has to be done, but what? nothing is really feasible! as for the people coming into the pet shop. i dont know them or there details so i cant dob them in opr do anything about it!


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## Reptilian (Nov 5, 2006)

talking about boa's, i know someone with 2 of em...****in huge too...lol


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## Tristis (Nov 6, 2006)

i bet most people no someone with at lease one exotic. if you can sell them and no one is saying anything whats the point of them being illegal? if no one gets fined theres no deturent for people


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## BeardyBen (Nov 6, 2006)

I went to a mates place i hadnt seen for years, her ex kept a corn snake and she accidently let it escape. Lets just say she now knows the impact exotics can have after me lecturing her for half an hour.  its all too common I have been offered corns and chameleons before but why would you risk your legal collection for a couple of exotics when there are so many awesome natives. im just stoked we can keep them as pets as im from new zealand originally and its always been my dream to keep reptiles.


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## fullysicklids (Nov 6, 2006)

I use to work for a pet shop in Campbelltown, the owners of this place were breeding corn snakes on a fairly huge scale ,and selling them throughout the shop.....I did the right thing and reported them , However besides me losing my job , nothing else happened to them.Till this day i am still aware that they own and breed these reptiles , however on 2 separate ocasions, i have reported them , and 3 other people I know of had reported them...but no consequence for their actions.


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

It's sickening to know that these thing happen. It's strange that NPWS haven't acted on these people and have had their collection taken.


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

IMO the only real option to minimise the impact they will have/have had is to legalise exotics. Either that or have a minimu 10 year jail term for anyone caught with them and that obviosly will never happen.

In reality i dont think either will happen so i guess we will just have to sit back and watch feral populations form and exotic diseases destroy our wild and captive animals


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

cris said:


> In reality i dont think either will happen so i guess we will just have to sit back and watch feral populations form and exotic diseases destroy our wild and captive animals



A shocking truth but I hope it doesn't come down to that.


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## ex1dic (Nov 6, 2006)

when i used to work at a wildlife park, had a few people from the public bring in snow corns, as they didn't want them anymore.. was strange.


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

hornet said:


> as far as i know nothing is done to sellers on petlink, i chucked up a false advert a while back to see what would happen, i got heaps of people wanting them but no1 telling me it was a bad thing



I got an idea put up an ad like that and just do freight orders send them a cutout of a picture and a note telling them what you think of them. Then they go to the cops and say "I was trying to buy some illegal animals but the guy just sent me a piece of paper":lol:


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

cris said:


> I got an idea put up an ad like that and just do freight orders send them a cutout of a picture and a note telling them what you think of them. Then they go to the cops and say "I was trying to buy some illegal animals but the guy just sent me a piece of paper":lol:



And then use the money that they pay you to fund herp conservation and research into OPMV.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

Good ideas there Cris and Adbacus, might be worth a shot.


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## Vincent (Nov 6, 2006)

I dont keep exotics nor do i wish to, but your kidding yourself if you think there's anyway it can be stopped.I dont know why the NPWS dont have an amnesty and get it all out into the open and make some money out of it themselves with lisences etc. Because no matter what fines you impose, people are always going to keep,breed and sell exotics.


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

I think NPWS already had the amnesty a few years ago. It certainly shows that not evrythying was brought in.


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## Vincent (Nov 6, 2006)

adbacus said:


> I think NPWS already had the amnesty a few years ago. It certainly shows that not evrythying was brought in.


Yeah but theres a lot more different species here now. The reason a lot of people never declared their stuff last time was because they werent allowed to breed them and sell them. They need to be fair dinkum and realise that exotics are here to stay. Again, i'm not an exotic fan,even if it was legal i wouldnt own one. There's nothing out there that interests me.


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## moosenoose (Nov 6, 2006)

So why are reptiles targeted and tarred with the "exotics" brush?? Plenty of Cats Dogs, Fish and Birds that don't come from this country, yet are fully and freely available in literally any pet shop you walk into! I find it annoying how it's considered "disgusting" that someone has a corn or a burm. Talk about herd mentality!  It's a little like driving and talking on your mobile phone these days- 10 yrs ago it was the norm, now people look at you like you have 10 heads because of how it's been subconsciously beaten into them!! :lol: 

I can understand the concerns and banning of exotic venomous reptiles due to lack of anti-venin here for those particular species, but the harmless herps that have obviously been raised and bred here pose no threat when it comes to the topic and argument of disease!


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

OPMV and IBD were both bought into the country, dog's cat's and fish were bought into the country before they knew what sort of damage they would do. Reptiles like cane toads have been bought into the country and look what they have done. Like all things laws have had to adapt. there is no need to legalise forign reptiles in Aust it will just cause more probems in the long run.


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## Vincent (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree. In a perfect world they wouldnt be here. But the fact is they are very popular and there are heaps here. It's no good hiding your head in the sand and pretending they dont exist. I believe it's better to legalise them and bring it all out into the open. That way the NPWS can keep some control of it, plus make some money out of it as well.


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## Splitmore (Nov 6, 2006)

Mayo said:


> OPMV and IBD were both bought into the country, .



Mayo,
there's absolutely no proof of that, one theroy is it may of originated here and thats how it's ended up overseas.
Keeping exotics under the table has been going on forever, and will continue to do so. It's obviously a problem, especially if things escape etc but with all thats happening in the world if the only problem is someone keeping and breeding a few corn snakes then life must be pretty good


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

ShaneBlack said:


> I dont keep exotics nor do i wish to, but your kidding yourself if you think there's anyway it can be stopped.I dont know why the NPWS dont have an amnesty and get it all out into the open and make some money out of it themselves with lisences etc. Because no matter what fines you impose, people are always going to keep,breed and sell exotics.



Yes i agree, i think all reptile keepers should untite and try to push for the legalisation of exotics its the only realistic way to fix the problem IMO. Unless someone has another idea that will work and is possible?
Although it isnt going to happen i think severe punishments would really limit the number of ppl wanting them i cant imagine too many ppl would want a corn snake if it could land them in jail for 20 years but with the current system of limited to no punishment why wouldnt you keep them if you really want to. I personally think this would be a better option as far as protecting our ecosystem but im dreaming to think it could happen.




adbacus said:


> A shocking truth but I hope it doesn't come down to that.



Well its already happening we have feral populations of sliders near brisbane and possibly in other places and who knows if some of the diseases we are seeing are from overseas.

I know asian house geckos were accidentally released here but they do show how well some species can just explode in numbers very quickly with no way of stopping them. Oh well at least they make good food for animals.


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## Squamata (Nov 6, 2006)

I live in WA, and being in the herp industry, it is amazing what we have been offered - Chameleons, Iguana, Corn snakes and even a boa, of course we had to knock them back and told the people to hand them in. I love the exotics but get really p*****d off with people who have brought them into our country, without a thought to our native species. Being in the industry over here CALM makes it very difficult for you to deal, farm, keep our natives and will penalise you if you have anything not on their LIST even if it is a native species. 
Exotics belong in Zoos. Not in our selfish, want, want world!!! Think of our natives, if we want them to survive we have to be dinkum and only keep our natives.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

Would rather see them cop a $5000 fines and a criminal record. I'm not sticking my head in the sand there are a lot of international species available around Aust, but that doesn't mean that we should give in and let people keep them. As has been mentioned, snake catchers have had callout's to catch international species already. If it is made legal that number would increase rapidly. Wild populations have it tough enough already with out having to compete with more international snake breeds.


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

I agree Moosenoose, for some reason reptiles have been singled out for special treatment and demonised. I will say it again, we are allowed to have a dozen cats, breed them without restriction and give them away free to good homes but someone mentions a corn snake and you would think they had just opened a bottle of anthrax. It really does make me laugh.
I do agree also with Mayo in a way, there is no point in legalising them, there are so many here illegally and are breed in such numbers legalising them wont make any real difference. 
Also I am not aware of any evidence to show IBD or OPMV were introduced, there are many who think it has always been here in one form or another but that is a different thread altogether.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

I think OPMV was first found in a californian zoo, and the second in an english zoo. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Yes I no that people have been breeding exotics for years but it doesn't make it right.


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

Splitmore said:


> with all thats happening in the world if the only problem is someone keeping and breeding a few corn snakes then life must be pretty good



Well life is pretty good in Australia and at the moment we do have time to have some concern for our ecosystem. Just because there are much bigger problems in the world such as global warming and global jihad doesnt mean that it isnt a very important issue. Also i think its something that we can do something about if we work together.

Is anyone against the legalisation of exotics? keeping in mind that unrealistic solotions wont happen.


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

I don't find exotics disgusting. It's keeping them in private collections illegally despite Australian laws. Yes, there can possibly be a place for them in the future as they way things are going now isn't too good with their illegal trade. It's when you hear stories of 'my corn snake got away', and 'slider turtles taking over SE Qld waterways' that really gets people. 

The sale and trade of these illegal animals are and have been going to a lot of inexperienced herpers. Ones that have little to no understanding of the basic husbandry and care of reptiles. So what happens; little Johnny can't look after his corn snake, who dumps it in the bush, or puts his slider turtle in the nearby creek. These exotics released are already in a fragile ecosystem. Natives are already having a hard time dealing with us, now they have to compete with exotic animals, with a possibility of disease. 

Look at what's happened with Carp introduced into our rivers; rabbits, foxes, wild dogs and feral cats taking advantage. Cane toads heading for WA taking advantage of our roads to head to WA. Mynah Birds in our cities. JMO though


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

Well said adbacus


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## junglepython2 (Nov 6, 2006)

Nothing is going to happen with the current penalties that are enforced, people have numerous complaints against them and nothing is done about it.

Authorities need to catch 20+ breeders and fine them the maximum amount, which I'm sure they could find in a day if they bothered looking. Get the media involved then have an amnesty. After that period start fining and confiscating collections of anyone found with exotics and actively hunt them out.

Nothing will totally eradicate exotics, but hopefully it will stop the 15 year old kid from buying one that will get bored and release it in a years time.


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## henric (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Guys,
It´s an interesting discussion you have regarding the exotics and I can understand both sides in this matter. My opinion is that you should be able to keep exotics, and I hope you will be able to some day.

However, I would like to ask a totally different thing(but similar in some aspects). Whats your thoughts about not beeing able to export animals legally?! I mean, what can be the reason for not letting you guys export to, for example, Europe where I live?!

I know that we can get a lot of your ozzie reptiles over here(mostly pythons), but for me, that is interested in knowing more about the animals, for example locality, its hard. You cant really get that kind of info on the animals over here. Also, I am very interested in your elapids, and you dont really find many of them over here. 
I would love to have the opportunity to get animals directly from a breeder in your end, and I cant understand why it´s not possible.

Let me know, what you all think, and sorry for "stealing" the thread!

Regards
Henric


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

I definitely agree that this should happen. Awareness needs to be raised in a large scale. What's the bet that a good percentage of these exotic keepers don't even know the legalities of what they are keeping.


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## fullysicklids (Nov 6, 2006)

For example say the average corn snake sells for 250 , how likely is it that someone would just let go something into our bush that they payed good money for???and even if they did i dont need to remind ppl but you need two to breed.

Someone mentioned the whole Cane toad thing , toads were purpously introduced , so its really a different ball game.


Boa i agree with you 100%


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

O.K I take back the Toads and replace it with Slide Turtles then. Sold as pet's not cheap released by kids all it took was a few to find each other and now we have a problem.


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## Jungletrans (Nov 6, 2006)

Laws and fines do nothing but drive prices up on anything illegal . Look at handguns and drugs . You will always be able to buy anything worth a lot of money . Only if things are legaly available cheaply will criminals lose interest in selling them .


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

fullysicklids said:


> For example say the average corn snake sells for 250 , how likely is it that someone would just let go something into our bush that they payed good money for???and even if they did i dont need to remind ppl but you need two to breed.



Yeah but if more than one person released that animal in a locality - i.e. slider turtles, indian mynahs - look at what you get. 

Paid good money - is that also the reason why so many dogs and cats are at the RSPCA after christmas?

CSIRO in the 1950s was totally against the introduction of the cane toad I might add.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

Force the price up far enough and people will not release exotics into the wild but it is my understanding that most can be picked up quite cheaply.


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## Hickson (Nov 6, 2006)

Just gonna make a couple of salient points here:

1) NPWS can't hold an amnesty. It is Federal Law that prohibits exotics, so it is DEH (formerly Environment Australia) in Canberra that can make changes, and they aren't gonna do that.

2) It might be 'safe' at present for people to keep exotics, and the fines for those caught might be small - but as soon as someone dies from a Cobra or Puff Adder bite that situation will turn around overnight.

3) Legalising exotics will only make the problem worse, as people will want what they can't have and so more exotics will be smuggled in, with the attendant risk of disease.

And in case anyone doesn't know ......... I'm against them. Lovely creatures, but only in zoos.



Hix


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

Henric, I can see absolutely no reason why licensed breeders can't sell legally bred offspring overseas. I have thought about it and I really can't see a single reason why not. To be fair many of our laws are somewhat hard to understand. All it does is promote illegal import and export.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

How many snakes would die in the transport oversea's there is 1 reason for you. Movement of diseases would be another.


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

I guess no more would die being transported overseas than would die being transported within this country. 
Like any other animal quarantine would have to be observed.


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## ldheav (Nov 6, 2006)

*Ezotics*

I read in my local paper that a guy got busted last month with an American snapping Turtle at his house 

$110.000 fine :shock:


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## adbacus (Nov 6, 2006)

Whilst the occassional newsreport is good, we need to hit these people big time, especially the breeders. Not only a fine, and a lifetime ban from keeping reptiles, but publicly be shown on TV, so others know we mean business. They need to catch a good number at one time to get the message to hit home and get public awareness at the same time IMHO.


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

$110,000 WOW, are you sure ? $110 would be more usual.



ldheav said:


> I read in my local paper that a guy got busted last month with an American snapping Turtle at his house
> 
> $110.000 fine :shock:


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## Australis (Nov 6, 2006)

No fine at all would be more usual..lol


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

Transported within the country and transport outside the country are no where near the same Boa. Be realistic, yes quarentine would be observed but many more would die on a trip overseas than would die being moved around the country.


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

I wonder if it was paper talk or that they were talking about maximum fines possible.
Mayo, there is absolutely no reason to assume animals would die in transit, I'm being very realistic. I'm not talking about shipping wild caught stressed animals crammed into little bags a 100 to a box. Reptiles are routinely shipped between breeders all around the world.


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## Splitmore (Nov 6, 2006)

Mayo said:


> Transported within the country and transport outside the country are no where near the same Boa. Be realistic, yes quarentine would be observed but many more would die on a trip overseas than would die being moved around the country.



how would that happen? Reptiles and all animals are shipped around the world every day without problems so why would sending something overseas be any different than shipping interstate?


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

There is an expected loss in sending animals overseas. Shipping sheep they expect that only 60% will make it alive, never seen the stats on reptiles but I'm sure that losses would occur more regularly sending them overseas than sending them around the country.


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

You are comparing sticking 3000 sheep on a ship for X number of weeks to a reptile carefully packed in a suitable box on a plane for maybe 24 hours ?


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## Magpie (Nov 6, 2006)

I reckon exotics are great, those girls down at the pink pussy cat club... phwoar!!!!!


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## Australis (Nov 6, 2006)

Mayo,

Smuggled animals die in transit in high numbers, but animals being ship above board arent really a problem, Zoos all around the world exchange animals including reptiles...


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## Retic (Nov 6, 2006)

That's right, we aren't talking about sticking a snake in a postal tube and trusting it to the Post Office.


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## Australis (Nov 6, 2006)

I think exporting Natives reptiles would only serve to reduce the value of illegal smuggled animals and are constantly leaving the country anyways.


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

I disagree, animals are always dying in transit, there is no need to send our snakes overseas, and no need to breed or import exotics in the country. Those cought doing so should be paying high fines and recieving criminal records. Yes it will probably continue but it would put many off getting caught with exotics in there collections. JMO


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## Australis (Nov 6, 2006)

Mayo,

You do know Australian Zoo/Fauna Parks etc..

Do currently export Australias Native Reptiles, to some small degree.

While i kinda agree that no "need" exists to export our reptiles, but then i dont think a "need" exists for private reptile keeping either.

Within a period of 20 hours a reptile could with ease be exported DOOR to DOOR, from Australia to say North America.

I in no way want t see things imported into Australia, but im very sure large sums of money would be paid for locality known animals in the USA and Europe


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## Mayo (Nov 6, 2006)

I worked at Sydney Aquarium for a while I no full well that it happens and I no that not all will make it alive, and see no point in sending them for someones personal collections. But once again everything is about money to be made. Not saying you Australis but let's face it, it comes down to greed and money. Zoo's I can understand, and I have no problem with zoo's doing it. All just my opinion but I would prefer that we kept Aust species in Aust, and heavily fined those caught with exotics, and gave them a criminal record. It may still continue but they would be far more carefull and I think fewer people would purchase them if the consequences were heavier


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

The only reason i could see that a reptile would die in transit i gross neglect in packing and transport or an existing problem. Ppl get transported in a similar way and not many ppl die on planes.

I would prefer if it was legal to export animals for one reason, because its better for the animals.
Other reason i dont really care for are the destruction of the criminal export trade and the ability for ppl overseas to enjoy our beutiful wildlife(well what they dont have already).

Back onto the topic of the thread ppl are already legally keeping heaps of animals that arnt native to their area and these can have the exact same effects as exotic species when they get into the wild although not to the same extent.

Does someone want to start a petition for legalising exotics? and/or opening up legal import and export of selected herps?


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## Hickson (Nov 6, 2006)

It has been shown in the international trade arena that any legalised international trade in a commodity increases the illegal trade in that same commodity. If the Australian Government allowed the export of native reptiles, what makes you think it would only be breeder's exporting one or two snakes to other breeders in the USA? What's to stop one of the petshops we here the Melbournites complaining about from acquiring 40 Jungles and shipping them to an animal dealer in Germany? If the petshop can't keep one or two animals healthy, how do you think they will package and send their exports?

What if the shipment gets offloaded for 24 hrs in Bangkok? It may be left on the tarmac (in the sun) for 4 or 5 hours before being loaded onto another flight.

What scares me is where they would get the animals from. If they get an order for 30 diamond pythons, and they can only source 20, where do you think they would get the other 10. The wild, perhaps?

I know people will say I'm painting the worst scenario picture, and that not everyone behaves like that, but the fact is some people/businesses do behave like that and the picture I've painted is not an unrealistic one.



Hix


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## moosenoose (Nov 6, 2006)

Hix said:


> 1) NPWS can't hold an amnesty.



You know me Hixy and you know this next paragraph isn't designed as a sniping nasty thing  

But.... they've done the amnesty thing here before, definately throughout Victoria, and I know of someone with a male and female Boa who has been able to keep them legally, under one of those rare and unobtainable "international" licenses they dished out  I know the DSE and NPWS have to deter people bringing more and more into the country, but to discourage Australian bred and raised exotics really doesn't hold any water for me  (I guess I'm a going against the grain kind of guy :lol


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## Hickson (Nov 6, 2006)

What you're refering to is amnesties held in the 90's by the State Authorities. The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act was gazetted in 1999 and is a federal Act that bans exotics. Because it is federal, it supercedes any state laws. The last amnesty in 2004 was a legal requirement of making an amendment to the act whereby they incorporated a "reverse onus of proof" clause. It was run by DEH in Canberra through the state authorities.



Hix


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## moosenoose (Nov 6, 2006)

Hix said:


> What you're refering to is amnesties held in the 90's by the State Authorities. The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act was gazetted in 1999 and is a federal Act that bans exotics. Because it is federal, it supercedes any state laws. The last amnesty in 2004 was a legal requirement of making an amendment to the act whereby they incorporated a "reverse onus of proof" clause. It was run by DEH in Canberra through the state authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> Hix



Ahh cheers Hixy  Whilst I knew it happened, I wasn't aware of the legalities of it. Cheers!


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## ldheav (Nov 6, 2006)

I read in my local paper
A guy smuggled a American snapping turtle into Australia using a box holding christmas gifts 


He got busted Lol


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## junglepython2 (Nov 6, 2006)

Anything happen to him?


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## cris (Nov 6, 2006)

ldheav said:


> I read in my local paper
> A guy smuggled a American snapping turtle into Australia using a box holding christmas gifts
> 
> 
> He got busted Lol



I guess it would be better than strapping it to the inside of you leg with its head facing up, like some idiot did with bluetounges(maybe stumpys?) that was ages ago though and those guys have amazing jaw pressure :shock: :lol:


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## Hickson (Nov 7, 2006)

And that's not as stupid as strapping four woollen bags made out of socks to your thighs, putting in them 4 Emerald Tree Boas and 4 King Cobras, then getiing on a long flight from Europe to Australia .......



Hix


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## Retic (Nov 7, 2006)

The recent 'amnesty' in Victoria achieved next to nothing because of the restrictions placed on anyone coming forward. I actually sat in on some of the discussion with NPWS and it was fairly obvious they were merely going through the motions for appearances. They fully realised the scale of the problem in Victoria and their answer was to introduce this 'amnesty' but it wasn't in fact an amnesty because they could accept or reject applications, the result was that only a handful of people came forward because of the fear of losing their animals. I have a couple of friends down there with legal exotic animals but once they came forward they were left in limbo for months at a time waiting to hear if they would actually be successful. 
In the end it was a PR exercise that accomplished nothing.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Nov 7, 2006)

Exotics rule!
No need to pay an anual fee for licensing


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## Retic (Nov 7, 2006)

Good point.


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