# Extinct aussie reptiles?



## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

Was just looking up extinct Aussie animals and came across these, I have never heard of any of them, can someone please fill me in on them?

_Liasis burtoni_ Southern Australia Python *SA, QLD* Last wild specimen recorded in 1981
_Talalihous ater_ Harlequin Lizard *TAS* Last wild specimen recorded in 1985
_Chelodina buxtoni_ Queensland Snakenecked Turtle *SA* Last wild specimen recorded in 1997
_Varanus loi_ Norfolk Island Monitor lizard *Norfolk Islands* Last wild specimen recorded in 1979


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

I don't think the first 3 are even real? I googled them and got no results, never seen them in any books. Does that mean wikipedia is not always right :lol:


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## MannyM (May 17, 2010)

Liasis burtoni, Burtons Legless Lizard, Australia

Thought for sure this was still alive.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

Liasis is genus that includes water pythons and olive pythons.

Burton's legless lizard is Lialis burtonis, not liasis burtoni


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## zoolander (May 17, 2010)

MannyM said:


> Liasis burtoni, Burtons Legless Lizard, Australia
> 
> Thought for sure this was still alive.


 
Liasis? read it before you start thinking.


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## MannyM (May 17, 2010)

Ahh righto. Blame google, there seem to be plenty of legless lizard hits for Liasis burtoni.


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## -Matt- (May 17, 2010)

H.bitorquatus said:


> Does that mean wikipedia is not always right :lol:



Try telling that to some members of this site that love to quote it every chance they get :lol:

Would be interesting to hear if those first three ever did exist.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

:lol:, I know APSers love wikipedia!

I googled the 4th, again it sounds like its made up....


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## -Matt- (May 17, 2010)

It makes them sound clever 

I can't find info on any of them...Liasis _burtoni _and _Lialis burtonis _sound too similar which makes me think that the first one is a fake, but you never know.


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## slim6y (May 17, 2010)

So here you are dissing wiki (a perfectly good resource hehe) and all you're relying on is google search???? Hmmmmm pot calling kettle....

Best to chat to the good folk of a natural museum (for the liasis try somewhere in SA where it was or wasn't discovered).

It's a fine line between whether wiki can provide facts or fiction - but never the less - it's a resource that if you use wisely is a very powerful tool - rather than the tool that just quotes wiki without looking at the references first... 

Your topic is interesting but warrants far more than a 'googling' - good luck - let us know how you get on.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

you have me there slim, I might have to look into it. I just thought at least someone might know, or google might have results


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## slim6y (May 17, 2010)

H.bitorquatus said:


> you have me there slim, I might have to look into it. I just thought at least someone might know, or google might have results


 
Kinda looking forward to hearing what you come up with - you should see the endangered list!!! There's a fair few reps and amphibs on that one!!! And Australia really has a disproportionate amount of endangered animals - something really worth looking into.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

Should I just email the museum? The closest one is about 4 hours away. Yes, have seen the list, its a very nice one, we are doing a good job at the endangered, I think some Australians are not trying hard enough to extend the list though which is a shame.


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## slim6y (May 17, 2010)

give them a call


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## syeph8 (May 17, 2010)

H.bitorquatus said:


> Should I just email the museum? The closest one is about 4 hours away. Yes, have seen the list, its a very nice one, we are doing a good job at the endangered, I think some Australians are not trying hard enough to extend the list though which is a shame.


 
..... ok i must be misinterpreting this quote... 

and in reltion to closest museum being 4 hours away. it will give you some quality bonding time betwen you and your vehicle


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## -Matt- (May 17, 2010)

syeph8 said:


> ..... ok i must be misinterpreting this quote...



Sarcasm


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

I hate talking on phones, I am not *that* curious as to if they are real or not, maybe someone else is keen enough to ring a museum?


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## slim6y (May 17, 2010)

syeph8 said:


> ..... ok i must be misinterpreting this quote...
> 
> and in reltion to closest museum being 4 hours away. it will give you some quality bonding time betwen you and your vehicle


 
And more of a chance to help add to the endangered list too - drive at night for more chance of amphibians.


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## syeph8 (May 17, 2010)

shouldnt be too hard considering there is no daylight savings.. you could leave early 


slim6y said:


> And more of a chance to help add to the endangered list too - drive at night for more chance of amphibians.


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## QLD4800 (May 17, 2010)

Reptiles - Australian Museum


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

I was just on the Australian museum site, I gave up 5 minutes ago, if I can't find it on the internet or in any of my reptile guides, then it must not be real


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## syeph8 (May 17, 2010)

QLD4800 said:


> Reptiles - Australian Museum


 
well there was _a _liasis.... none of the same as the list though on that particular museum


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## slim6y (May 17, 2010)

No mater what tho syeph8 - that liasis was immense:

Liasis dubudingala - Australian Museum

"Estimated to have been about 9 metres in length. "


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## angieb (May 17, 2010)

*Liasis burtoni*


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## angieb (May 17, 2010)

i think the second one _Talalihous ater_ Harlequin Lizard .... closest thing i got was a bird... hmmm


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## syeph8 (May 17, 2010)

angieb said:


> *Liasis burtoni*


 
hahahaha (assuming it is a joke)


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (May 17, 2010)

_Varanus loi_ Norfolk Island Monitor lizard *Norfolk Islands* Last wild specimen recorded in 1979 ------ would have no natural predators in wild - norfolk island -only humans who may have killed due to livestock - why would this monitor become extinct ?? whilest food to be consumed would be -birds bats - insects which norfolk has quite alot of ? you also believe that it would be galapagos land iguana


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (May 17, 2010)

galapagos land iguana - i mean that it would have adaptd the same way ?


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## naledge (May 17, 2010)

slim6y said:


> So here you are dissing wiki (a perfectly good resource hehe) and all you're relying on is google search???? Hmmmmm pot calling kettle....


 
It's even worse than that, anyone could get anything indexed in Google. Right now I could make a website saying that the Green Tree Python is an introduced species and was originally an Emerald Tree Boa. And I could have it indexed in Google in under 24 hours.

But if I was to put that in Wikipedia I would need to include a credible reference, if I don't it'll be deleted. If the reference doesn't check out, or if the moderators can't find any evidence proving it, it'll be deleted.

Wikipedia is as credible an information source as an encyclopedia. You just need to check the references. 

I know that the Queensland Snake Neck Turtle (Chelodina Buxtoni) and the Harlequin Lizard (Talalihous ater) are extinct.


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## Kenshin (May 17, 2010)

extinct aussie reptiles................... the southwest woma! hasent been seen in years bloody cats and development have wiped them out


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## danandgaye (May 17, 2010)

one eyed trouser snake..lol..mine is pretty much extinct


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## AllThingsReptile (May 17, 2010)

ok im pretty sure ive heard of the queensland snakenecked turtle somewhere but i cant remember where


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## syeph8 (May 17, 2010)

lizardboii said:


> ok im pretty sure ive heard of the queensland snakenecked turtle somewhere but i cant remember where


 
are you sure it was QLD snakenecked turtle? because i've heard the eartern longnecked turtle reffered to as the snakeneck turlte.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

naledge, since you know of those two being extinct, maybe you can fill us in with info, pictures or something?


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## nathancl (May 17, 2010)

egernia obiri has not been recorded in many years


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## H.bitorquatus (May 17, 2010)

thats the one from arnhem land hey? Add retro slider to the list.


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## eipper (May 20, 2010)

Extinctions in recent years are suspected for a few Australian species or populations they are off the top of my head...

Lerista allanae, Hemiergis sp (near Perth), Egernia obirii, Victorian population of Tympanocryptis pinguicolla and the South West Population of Woma's.

Whether or not Oxyuranus microlepidotus was naturally occuring in Victoria is unclear (its thought that they may of been washed in via flooding of the coopers creek drainage via the darling river or a mislabelled locality on the holotype).

Similar localised extinction around Lake Boga for Acanthophis antarcticus. 

Cheers,
Scott


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## H.bitorquatus (May 20, 2010)

Plenty of localised extinctions I would think. Shame about the stuff you mentioned, But you never know they might still be out there, there is hope. I don't like the chances for some of them though.

Do you know if the original 4 species posted on the thread are actually real?

Thanks


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## boogeralby (May 20, 2010)

Hi there,
Egernia obirii hasn't been 'officially' recorded... Doesn't mean a few haven't been seen. The original locality might be a little away from where you can see them.
As for Lerista allanae, its probably a little hard to establish if a primarily fossorial species is extinct, though i realise that some very experienced herpers have spent a lot of there time searching for them.


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## AllThingsReptile (May 20, 2010)

syeph8 said:


> are you sure it was QLD snakenecked turtle? because i've heard the eartern longnecked turtle reffered to as the snakeneck turlte.


 no im pretty sure it was the queensland snakenecked turtle but anyways it was a while ago and i cant remember where it was sooo...........i dunno


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## H.bitorquatus (May 20, 2010)

boogeralby said:


> Hi there,
> Egernia obirii hasn't been 'officially' recorded... Doesn't mean a few haven't been seen. The original locality might be a little away from where you can see them.
> As for Lerista allanae, its probably a little hard to establish if a primarily fossorial species is extinct, though i realise that some very experienced herpers have spent a lot of there time searching for them.



I thought they found a dead one last survey or something? (Egernia that is)

Have you seen them up there Col?


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## -Peter (May 20, 2010)

The Wiki list is bogus.
The turtle does not exist, the monitor does not exist and Liasis burtoni isnt a python, its a spelling mistake. On that I am assuming the other is bogus as well.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 20, 2010)

thought so peter.


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## boogeralby (May 21, 2010)

H.bitorquatus said:


> I thought they found a dead one last survey or something? (Egernia that is)
> 
> Have you seen them up there Col?



I may or may not have seen them up there, but no where near the type locality. I didnt know about the dead one showing up in the survey. Would be interesting to see where that was.


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## -Peter (May 21, 2010)

Bellatorius obirii was collected as another species quite some time ago. Live specimens have been captured in several adjacent locations though it hasn't been found again in Arnhem Land on several recent surveys. Believe it or not but this information is all available on the WWW.


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## H.bitorquatus (May 21, 2010)

Arnhem Crevice Skink photo - Alexander Dudley photos at pbase.com that was from 2004 according to info.

I am not up to date with all taxonomy and species sorry, You two would be right!


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## Jonno from ERD (May 23, 2010)

eipper said:


> Similar localised extinction around Lake Boga for Acanthophis antarcticus.



Is there any confirmed, verifiable recordings of Adders in Victoria? I remember having my infamous "we deal in facts, Jonno!" chat with Mike Swan and he seemed to believe they'd never been found in Victoria.


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## eipper (May 23, 2010)

The 2 recorded specimens came from the diary of Gerrard Krefft, with line drawings of the head scalation and Tail Tip, the locality listed was from Lake Boga, Victoria. As for A. antarcticus in Victoria.....the border country in far east gippsland is quite probable, they have been recorded in the adjacent NSW National park which the border is the Southern Edge. They have not been recorded in Victorian side...yet.


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## nevtalath (May 29, 2010)

lizardboii said:


> no im pretty sure it was the queensland snakenecked turtle but anyways it was a while ago and i cant remember where it was sooo...........i dunno



Only ones i can find are eastern snake necked turtles aka long necked turtles


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## eipper (Jun 8, 2011)

Just a side note in the past 6 months both lerista allanae and a south west woma have turned up 

Cheers
Scott


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## Tassie97 (Jun 8, 2011)

pygmy blue tongues were extinct but now they not again 
sorry if you have talked about this in your Latin jumble but i talk English lol


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## prettypython (Jun 9, 2011)

eipper said:


> Just a side note in the past 6 months both lerista allanae and a south west woma have turned up
> 
> Cheers
> Scott


 That is Amazing, why hasn't this made the news? I would love to know where? But I suspect that is a secret, and most likely best kept that way, I can just see a massive poaching problem! Who disscovered the sw woma again?


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

> That is Amazing, why hasn't this made the news? I would love to know where? But I suspect that is a secret, and most likely best kept that way, I can just see a massive poaching problem! Who disscovered the sw woma again?



Not that I disagree with you but on the count of the Retro slider. 
A) If it took so long for one to turn up good luck poaching them.
B) Not so many people like keeping Lerista.


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## prettypython (Jun 10, 2011)

Your probally right geckphotographer, but the devistation poachers leave behind is probally a big concern, imagine all the womas natural habbitat taken too with block splitters whilst out looking, it won't just be those species effected, but all the other animals and plant life around that area, I'm just so happy that they are not compleatly extinct, I hope turning up two species like this puts their natural habbit as a do not touch consevation area.


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## Jeffa (Jun 10, 2011)

And I hope you are right pretty python. Lets just hope the authorities give these endangered/rediscovered species the protection they deserve, as opposed to the typical snake who cares scenario.

Please keep us all updated as we are lucky to have a second chance.


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## Elapidae1 (Jun 10, 2011)

Most of the remaining habitat is protected problem is theres bugger all left and what is left is under pressure and for the most part small scattered pockets


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

As I said I did not disagree with you and particularly with the Woma I think poaching may become a huge problem. In fact if they are in protected habitat I think it will be the biggest problem. 
Environments can recover from the devastation of people looking for reptiles otherwise all the scientists out there (meaning the reptile ones) would be out of job. But the poaching of reptiles is indeed carried out in terribly scaring ways in terms of environmental impact.


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## Elapidae1 (Jun 10, 2011)

I don't think poaching will be a problem for the woma because there is probably so few left over such a massive area people will give up before finding them. I'm not sure they would have much visual appeal.


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

Guess we will find out, I hope you are right.


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## Jeffa (Jun 10, 2011)

then it should be up to the government to do everything in their power to protect and bring any animal into captivity to protect this rare and threatened species (just like the oenpelis species) to ensure their continued existence.


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## prettypython (Jun 10, 2011)

That's a nice idea jeffa, athough I'm sure something is still classed as extinct when they don't live in the natural habitat. Also in the wrong hands cross breeding from say a sw woma and a pilbara woma would be sad but more than likely reality. Steve1 I hope your right, I must just be very untrustworth, I wouldn't put it past anyone that collects reptiles unlawfully that they aren't going to look and cause a path of devistation. Kt.


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

No doubt some of these will be collected. If they are gone in the wild they are called extinct in nature. In talking about this however they would only be locally extinct as they are only a isolated location of a species not a full species.


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## Elapidae1 (Jun 11, 2011)

prettypython said:


> Steve1 I hope your right, I must just be very untrustworth, I wouldn't put it past anyone that collects reptiles unlawfully that they aren't going to look and cause a path of devistation. Kt.


 
That path of destruction has already been made through land clearing and much of the intact habitat has been raped for other species, yet it would seem Womas still rarely popped up even if only as a bi-product to other taking/poaching.
I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that the area they occupy is losing and has lost species at a higher rate than anywhere else in the world. the excisting threats are more or less irreversible and don't stem from illegal collectors. I don't think their situation can be accurately compared to that of M. _oenpelliensis_

Furthermore there is nothing stopping the legal collection of them as a massive percentage of the land is privately owned. I have heard of them in private collections.

Thats my personal take on the situation

Scott, what condition and approx age was this snake? Reptiles and Frogs of the Perth Region states that all but one of the specimens observed in recent years (taking into account the book was reprinted in2002) were all old adults.


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## eipper (Jun 11, 2011)

Steve,

It was an adult in good condition.

Cheers,
scott


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## mysnakesau (Jun 12, 2011)

I would like to know where to find out more information about the aussie pygmy carpet python. I've only ever heard brief mention of it in a Reptiles Australia magazine. I am going to go dig out my magazines so I can quote the Issue and page. Why has nobody ever followed up research into these guys, or if they have, what's the secret?

I am not talking about pygmy pythons. RA mentioned a pygmy CARPET python. Anybody else know what I am talking about? I'll go check my books and come back later


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## Jeffa (Jun 12, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> I would like to know where to find out more information about the aussie pygmy carpet python. I've only ever heard brief mention of it in a Reptiles Australia magazine. I am going to go dig out my magazines so I can quote the Issue and page. Why has nobody ever followed up research into these guys, or if they have, what's the secret?
> 
> I am not talking about pygmy pythons. RA mentioned a pygmy CARPET python. Anybody else know what I am talking about? I'll go check my books and come back later


 
Try morelia macburniei on google called a pygmy carpet python found on st francis island. Also check out morelia mippughae it was mentioned as well, not to sure how outdated the info was but keep us posted on another possible sub species.
Hope this helps


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 12, 2011)

These are Morelia spilota imbricata living on St Francis island.


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## Jeffa (Jun 12, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> These are Morelia spilota imbricata living on St Francis island.


 
Five new Australian Pythons.

Seems very outdated. but there is a mention about two thirds of the way down. Must have been reclassified as imbricata with slight differences.
Oh well


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 12, 2011)

As far as I am aware no actual work has been done to show that the M. spilota imbricata on St Francis island are different although this may be found in the future. 
That stands based on the only work I have heard of describing new Morelia from the spilota clade are in relation to bredli and *all* imbricata. 

To be honest I found what the ones on St Francis are through another Aussie Pythons thread, http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...ssion-42/smallest-breed-carpet-pythons-78865/


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## Jeffa (Jun 12, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> As far as I am aware no actual work has been done to show that the M. spilota imbricata on St Francis island are different although this may be found in the future.
> That stands based on the only work I have heard of describing new Morelia from the spilota clade are in relation to bredli and *all* imbricata.
> 
> To be honest I found what the ones on St Francis are through another Aussie Pythons thread, http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...ssion-42/smallest-breed-carpet-pythons-78865/


 
good read, some food for thought.


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## Elapidae1 (Jun 12, 2011)

Jeffa said:


> Five new Australian Pythons.
> 
> Seems very outdated. but there is a mention about two thirds of the way down. Must have been reclassified as imbricata with slight differences.
> Oh well


 
The section of this paper regarding M. _macburniei, _I think is an unaccepted attempt to seperate the St Francis Island population from M. _imbricata._


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## Jonno from ERD (Jun 13, 2011)

All of the "species" and "subspecies" in that "paper" will never be accepted by anyone other than the author.


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