# Highest Youth Suicide Increase in 15 Years!



## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

This is very sad...

12 Males in every 100,000 in the age group of 15-19 commit suicide...

See the story/stats here.

God I hate suicide.


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## bjbk18 (Sep 11, 2007)

it is sad. One kid in this age group done this at my school. It is really sad and effected everyone


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 11, 2007)

it's selfish and I have no sympathy for people that take the easy way out.


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## nuthn2do (Sep 11, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> it's selfish and I have no sympathy for people that take the easy way out.


You obviously have never dealt with depression


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 11, 2007)

actually I have, my partner suffered with it for years. 

everyone has problems, there's no need to top yourself is all i'm saying. i think it's a selfish and cowardly way out.


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## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> it's selfish and I have no sympathy for people that take the easy way out.



not meaning to make fun of the matter, but i dont really think dead ppl really care much for sympathy.

Suicide is illegal dont do it(unless you think you will go to heaven like a suicide bomber).


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> actually I have, my partner *suffered with it for years. *
> 
> everyone has problems, there's no need to top yourself is all i'm saying. i think it's a selfish and cowardly way out.



Does that mean they "got over it?"

I wouldn't say that kind of crap if I were you...

Obviously you know *nothing* about depression or suicide...

And I find it sickening that you would say that...


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## nuthn2do (Sep 11, 2007)

You would know then to take your own life is an irrational decision. That's the whole point, no person that does this thinks any further than their illness.


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## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

suicide is only worth contemplating if you are smart enough not to do it.

Unless you are deeply religious and it sits well with your god it is logically flawed on many levels.


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

cris said:


> suicide is only worth contemplating if you are smart enough not to do it.
> 
> Unless you are deeply religious and it sits well with your god it is *logically* flawed on many levels.



Logic has nothing to do with it...


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## ari (Sep 11, 2007)

Unfortunately the main cause of suicide is infact society & other people and how they effect others.

I did a bit of social work years ago & its interesting to know that many people with mental illnesses are infact gay oriented, meaning mental illness is brought on by unaccepting parents, friends & society in some cases.

Next is loneliness, drugs etc etc


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## sockbat (Sep 11, 2007)

my older brother gassed himself in a car when he was 21 didn't stop to think of anyone but himself>If only he'd reach out for help! Mabay that was the poblem he didn't know how to ask.


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## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

DragonKeeper said:


> Logic has nothing to do with it...



BS If i thought it was logical and smart to do i would do it, but it simply isnt.

essentially if you die you rot, if you live you can do fun stuff.


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## Mrs I (Sep 11, 2007)

The availability of drugs these days has to play a part in the higher suicide rate of teenagers.

Mrs I

xxx


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

cris said:


> BS If i thought it was logical and smart to do i would do it, but it simply isnt.
> 
> essentially if you die you rot, if you live you can do fun stuff.



If you have a serious mental illness like Manic Depression and you are having a breakdown nothing is logical anymore...

You can't expect someone with Autism to think Logically all of the time just like you can't expect a person with Depression to think logically all of the time.

It is a serious illness that effects you thinking ability...


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## Dodie (Sep 11, 2007)

I doubt the drugs available to younger 'kids' has much to do with suicide, maybe a very small percentage but not many.

I think ari hit the nail on the head, it's society and it's pressure's that cause this, also being gay isn't accepted in alot of circles and many deaths would be due to this.


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## Dodie (Sep 11, 2007)

Dragonkeeper has some very valid points, I knew a manic depressant only briefly and he was rarely smiling, you could take presciption drugs but then risk turning into a zombie or even escalating the problem instead of facing it.


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## twodogs (Sep 11, 2007)

Suicide is (by the norm) the cowards way out. But, some times people feel so alone, so afraid, so hepless, that all they see is ONE way to fix their problem. You can all the freinds and family there is, yet still be the lonliest person. At the end of the end of the day you will always stand alone.
Death is forever. Understanding in order to curb the suicide rate will go a lot further then just calling them cowards or quiters.


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## Mrs I (Sep 11, 2007)

i have had depression and was on medication for it, this was 10 years ago now. When I was 21.

The thing with most the medication they put you on is it takes away the depression yes but it also takes away most other feelings. IMO.

It took me 2 years to realise that the medication may well be helping the ill feelings but did not help at all with any positive feelings either.

I still get bouts of depression every now and then and IMO it is a mind thing.

You should all come and read the back of my toilet door one day..... It is full of positive affirmations. Everytime anyone goes in there they cant help but read them.

People even say they stay in thee longer to read them and when people re visit my house it is like ... i must go to the toilet and see what new sayings are up on the wall.

Its my way of staying positive. 

I think helping my mum deal with cancer for the past 10 years and being diagnosed terminal nearly 4 years ago has made me realise how short life really is. Live for today cause you never know when your time will be up.

Yesterday is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery
Today is a Gift
Thats why its called the Present.


Mrs I

xxxx


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## Sidonia (Sep 11, 2007)

I don't think suicide is overly selfish. I guess if you think you'll be happier dead don't let anyone stand in your way, only you can make your own happiness.

I have no sympathy for anyone weak enough to even contemplate it though. 

IMO people say it's selfish of the person because I guess they don't want to deal with the thought that they were too blind to realize what a bad way the person was in to do anything about it. I mean come on, if you can't see a person is so depressed that they want to kill themselves there has got to be something wrong with you.


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## ari (Sep 11, 2007)

With some major mental illnesses & a very slow self esteme abit of sneaky indirect discrimation at work, add to that a slap in the face at the shop on the way home and no friends or partner - sometimes thats all it takes.

People have to becareful these days as their actions will & do effect others even pathetic little things sometimes. It is a selfish act but thats not thought about when the decisions made. Sometimes things just get to much for some people - you have to remember everyone thinks, acts & contemplate things differently.


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## sockbat (Sep 11, 2007)

i'm sorry i know first hand what killing yourself dose to a family it is the cowards way out There is nothing that you cant talk about if not to family or friends ther are always trainded people who will listen Lifeline for one kids helpline.


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 11, 2007)

Mrs I said:


> i have had depression and was on medication for it, this was 10 years ago now. When I was 21.
> 
> The thing with most the medication they put you on is it takes away the depression yes but it also takes away most other feelings. IMO.
> 
> ...



Pretty much exactly the same thing that happened with my partner. She was on Zoloft for around 18 months and while it "took the edge off" it also totally changed the way she was. After a while she thought the drugs may well be contributing to the problem, and we slowly weaned her off it and she's never been better.

Sure everyone has their down time but jeesus, suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem.


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

Mrs I said:


> i have had depression and was on medication for it, this was 10 years ago now. When I was 21.
> 
> The thing with most the medication they put you on is it takes away the depression yes but it also takes away most other feelings. IMO.
> 
> ...



Really?

My mum has had Manic Depression nearly all of her life, her medication doesn't take away any feelings other than depression...

It really helps her.


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## cement (Sep 11, 2007)

I have done work with the suicide awareness program on the central coast in an effort to secure some funds for the guys that go way above and beyond their normal duties of counselling. I am talking about men's suicide, not youth, it is the biggest group of suiciders. On the central Coast of NSW is the largest contingent of mens suicide in the world except for Sweden(or Switzerland, i forget now who no 1 is). But I can tell you having been through the process and seeing the end result, there can be many, many factors. For you who think that it is cowardly, thats your opinion, but it would pay to be a little more open minded when you hear of someone who has or is considering ending their life. One of the biggest reasons is that blokes don't have any one to talk to. You know a REAL friend. And for us who were brought up in a man's man world you don't go around telling anyone your problems, because you feel awkward and soft, admitting that your not quite on top of things.
If everyone opened their minds a little and realised that there is more to this world then your own opinions, then there would be a lot less suffering.
There is nothing more heartbreaking then taking a rope off your best mates neck, and saying goodbye for good.


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 11, 2007)

That's sad news about your mother DragonKeeper. Manic depression is a bit different to your "garden variety" depression that every adolescent thinks they have these days.

I agree it's a horrible condition and defintely is something that should be addressed seriously, but you would be naive to think that _*everyone*_ who has has been diagnosed with depression actually _has_ it.


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## Mrs I (Sep 11, 2007)

Most manic depressives are lacking a hormone in there body called Ceratonin?.

This is the drug they give them, very different to your average depressed person.

I agree with Bung Eye.

Mrs I

xxx


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## Dodie (Sep 11, 2007)

Serotonin? The chemical produced by your brain? There's also melanin and dopamine, different levels of all affect your mood


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## Mrs I (Sep 11, 2007)

What I was trying to say was ... If there is a chemical imbalance in your brain it is treatable by drugs but a lot of people that have depression do not have a chemical imbalance.

My mum has every right to fall in a heap and be depressed but she chooses not to.. Every now and then she has a bad day but she chooses to not be depressed. Yet she has a friend in the same situation who is very depressed no amount of drugs can fix her depression.

My apologies dodie i did mean to say chemical not hormone.

Lack of Serotonin runs in my family (although i do not have a lower level) and i have 3 aunties 2 cousins and a sister that all take drugs to keep their levels 'normal'. Although my sister still has bad times and gets 'admitted' until she calms down.

Mrs I

xxx


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## Dodie (Sep 11, 2007)

No need to apologise! I was just a bit confused


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 11, 2007)

Mrs I knows the score


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## RevDaniel (Sep 11, 2007)

This topic, so close to home. But at the end of the day i now see my reasons to live. My children i adore. My fiance and my reptiles. Beside that i enjoy life mostly.
I lost my best friend than 6 months later his father to suicide and i can say that i have never gotten over it but somehow have accepted that they are not here. Although i see it as a reasonable feeling to be angry at them but rather i do wish that i had of been there at the time.


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## theduclos (Sep 11, 2007)

No sympathy for anyone who kills themselves say what you will about people being depressed but at the end of the day i believe it is the most selfish move you can make, especially if you have a family to support. the only time i would ever even contemplate killing myself was if i was given life imprisonment without the chance of parole or if something along the lines came up like killing yourself to avoid torture then death. not that i have much chance of that happening in suburban melbourne.

I am not totally ignorant to the dangers of being depressed, i have an aunty and an uncle who has been on anti depressants for years. what mean by saying suicide is selfish its the 17yr old who broke up with his girlfiend, the 35yrold who lost his job/cant deal with the kids etc.


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## RevDaniel (Sep 11, 2007)

As most members of APS may know i have a brain injury caused by a freak car accident on the 10/12/02. My body and brian was severly damaged. the Serotonin in my brain was damaged to the point it could not balance itself out and as a result i will be on anti depressants for the rest of my life. This is me who hates taking tablets but sure as hell know that i need them. It has taken me so many years before i would allow brain injury doctors to increase the dosage where infact the moods and behaviour i had when undermedicated affected me badly. One minute i would be happy as anything and the next minute i would be contiplating how to take my life. I have been on two different occasions to a phsyciatrick hospital because of my moods. I am engaged now and am ever so careful about my medication and moods. The last thing in the world i want would be to loose my partner. She is very understanding of my brain injury and life situations. She suffers a light depression herself so we are able to help each other along the way. Although i have my depression i try to make the most of each day.


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

theduclos said:


> No sympathy for anyone who kills themselves say what you will about people being depressed but at the end of the day i believe it is the most selfish move you can make, especially if you have a family to support. the only time i would ever even contemplate killing myself was if i was given life imprisonment without the chance of parole or if something along the lines came up like killing yourself to avoid torture then death. not that i have much chance of that happening in suburban melbourne.
> 
> I am not totally ignorant to the dangers of being depressed, i have an aunty and an uncle who has been on anti depressants for years. what mean by saying suicide is selfish its the 17yr old who broke up with his girlfiend, the 35yrold who lost his job/cant deal with the kids etc.



You have to realize that people don't kill themselves just because they broke up with their girlfriend etc.

That would just be the straw that broke the camels back, some people have to put up with alot of pressure, maybe that "17yr old who broke up with his girlfriend" was also being molested?

And maybe the 35 yr old who lost his job/cant deal with the kids, just found out his wife was cheating on him, or his mate had cancer...

People just don't do it for petty crap like that, it all builds up over time... It is not cowardly, and you should show sympathy, for those people and their friends and family...

Because it is really hard to deal with suicide if it has touched your life, and can you imagine what was so bad that troubled these poor people that kill themselves...

Show sympathy, those people would have gone through a hell of alot more crap than you have!


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## Possum (Sep 11, 2007)

I used to think it was the cowardly way out but sometimes I think they feel they have no choice.

Are you married duclos? Has your partner ever walked out for no apparent reason and said he doesn't love you anymore and is not sure why and then a week later you lose your job and then you wonder what your purpose is.

Not everyone has the luxury of having someone to go home to to talk about how crumbie their day was. And yes there are drugs but they only help calm anxiety, they don't stop the screaming monkey in the back of your brain they just suppress the feelings and give you no place to vent.

I don't think suicide is an option for them it is something that is just done, they think it would be better for everyone if no one had to worry about them anymore.


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## RevDaniel (Sep 11, 2007)

Dragonkeeper you hit the nail on the head my friend


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## cement (Sep 11, 2007)

theduclos said:


> No sympathy for anyone who kills themselves say what you will about people being depressed but at the end of the day i believe it is the most selfish move you can make, especially if you have a family to support. the only time i would ever even contemplate killing myself was if i was given life imprisonment without the chance of parole or if something along the lines came up like killing yourself to avoid torture then death. not that i have much chance of that happening in suburban melbourne.
> 
> I am not totally ignorant to the dangers of being depressed, i have an aunty and an uncle who has been on anti depressants for years. what mean by saying suicide is selfish its the 17yr old who broke up with his girlfiend, the 35yrold who lost his job/cant deal with the kids etc.


 
You are right on one account. It is selfish, ie they do it for them self. They don't do it to annoy you, or to burden you, though this may be your reaction. (maybe your selfish so you project that onto others eh?)

But having no sympathy, in time you will.
Compassion and sympathy for fellow beings, or even having a genuine concern for someone's well being is natural. 

Don't become a machine, open your mind.


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## spilota_variegata (Sep 11, 2007)

Very sad, but people in the 25-44 years age group had the highest rate of suicide (23 suicides per 100,000 persons). People in the 15-24 years age group (17 suicides per 100,000 persons). These stats were from the bureau of statistics in 1998. Numbers are still about the same (though it looks like numbers have actually dropped in the younger age group). It has always amazed me why people feel saddened and disgusted when they hear of young people comitting suicide when they constitute a small percentage of those who actually kill themselves. There are a lot more older men killing themselves but you never hear a thing about them.

I honestly feel the Child Support Agency and Family Law Court played a very big role in the number of men who comitted suicide in the 25-44 year age group. Having been through a broken marriage before and seeing how little support is offered to men and the lack of support groups (there are none in Alice Springs), I can see why a lot of men kill themselves.

Still that was a long time ago.. I'm lucky I had a job that I could absorb myself in to get over the pain. 

Please don't get me wrong, any suicide is a sad event. Just don't close your eyes to the fact that all age groups sometimes choose to end their lives unnecessarily.


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## Clairebear (Sep 11, 2007)

i think it's easy to forget that a lot of the people who commit suicide haven't got supportive families like some do as well. Some of the crap kids deal with amazes me (and since doing some primary teaching I have left schools absolutely freaked out). But even those with supportive families can feel pain and the whole logic thing goes to crap.

I used to have no sympathy for people who committed/contemplated suicide as i had a friend who ALWAYS threatened it... it was like her way of getting me to listen only it was the stupidest and most hurtful thing to do to someone..... then i realised she was never going to do it , it was just for attention (although i'm sure she was hurting), and it just made me feel mad, but reminded me that there are people who do feel that low... and i find it sad and i can only pray to whichever god they choose that something will go right for them. Life can really suck.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Sep 11, 2007)

hmm ill stay outta this one


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## Clairebear (Sep 11, 2007)

The Vietnam veterans were a classic example of it being present everywhere... on Vietnam Vets day I played the last post, and the guest speaker was fantastic! He was an old vet and he was talking directly into the hearts of everyone, esp the other vets, saying that they need to take care of themselves and not be embarrassed to talk about it... well i can't even begin to describe the speech properly but i was nearly crying by the time i had to play! You forget that it's not only the working people/students that suffer.


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## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

reptilegirl_jordan said:


> hmm ill stay outta this one



a bit late you have just posted, tell us what you think.


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## Mrs I (Sep 11, 2007)

Said well Dragon Keeper.

Mrs I

xxx


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Sep 11, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> it's selfish and I have no sympathy for people that take the easy way out.


 here goes then

u must be a real heartless person
when a kid is in there darkest hour they need help not some peron saying thats the easy way out,
when a teenage get it into there head they cant stop wat there gonna do,they just think its the best thing to do


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## 0_missy_0 (Sep 11, 2007)

Been down that path before... Was constantly bullied at school, I was too nice to fit into an all girls school lol... Then my dad cheated on my mum and when given a choice between his family or his mistress, well guess which he chose... He left us just like that.. Mum didn't even have a job, no qualifications etc.. Then I had to move schools cause my mum couldn't afford to pay for mine, and everyone who's moved schools knows how stressful that can be.. Didn't fit in that school either (another all girls school).. By then I was deeply depressed, with no friends to talk to, and to top it off my family was hardly supportive at all, telling me to "get over it" every time I tried talking to them, they treated me like ****... Changed schools again, even more stressful than the last time. I was about to kill myself. What stopped me? Friends. I started making heaps of good friends in my new school, and they were all there for me during my hard times. 

So, although I agree that suicide is selfish, when you're in that kind of situation, with people always bringing you down and you have no one to talk to, it doesn't really cross your mind that killing yourself may be selfish. It does open people's eyes, and they realise what bullying does to people, what they've been doing to people.


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## bouncn (Sep 11, 2007)

Mrs I said:


> The availability of drugs these days has to play a part in the higher suicide rate of teenagers.
> 
> Mrs I
> 
> xxx



surely drugs have always been readily available.

I think the difference now is that society is unfairly oriented towards 'cool' and those who aren't 'cool' enough try drugs, stealing cars, or whatever to fit in, and when they realise that they still don't, they hit rock bottom.

Whatever the answer is, I used to have no sympathy for suiciders until a friend hung himself. Then someone else did it. Then a friend of dad's did it, he left behind two kids. Anyone desperate enough to kill themselves and leave their kids behind, should have had proactive ecouragement to seek help.


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## spilota_variegata (Sep 11, 2007)

bouncn said:


> surely drugs have always been readily available.
> 
> I think the difference now is that society is unfairly oriented towards 'cool' and those who aren't 'cool' enough try drugs, stealing cars, or whatever to fit in, and when they realise that they still don't, they hit rock bottom.
> 
> Whatever the answer is, I used to have no sympathy for suiciders until a friend hung himself. Then someone else did it. Then a friend of dad's did it, he left behind two kids. Anyone desperate enough to kill themselves and leave their kids behind, should have had proactive ecouragement to seek help.




Was the friend of your father who killed himself going through a marriage breakup at the time? Looks like you've had your fair share of sadness  I feel for the kids.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Sep 11, 2007)

this thread is stupid and should be closed!


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## bouncn (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah his wife left him and the next day he hung himself.

In actual fact, as sad as it was to have friends take their own lives I look at it like this.

there are somewhere in the range of 6.6 billion humans on this earth. Now, if you are born in Australia, one of the best countries in the world, you are doing better than 6,580,000,000 other people on the planet. FURTHERMORE, if you are born with good health, and all your fingers and toes, and a voice to talk with, and ears to listen and eyes to see our beautiful country, then you must be one of the luckiest people on Earth. So every time i feel a little down, I just have to think about the people who aren't so lucky as I...


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## bouncn (Sep 11, 2007)

reptilegirl_jordan said:


> this thread is stupid and should be closed!



???


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 11, 2007)

reptilegirl_jordan said:


> this thread is stupid and should be closed!



Not really, It is actually very informative for those who have not experienced suicide in their lives, it might make a few people care a bit more, and if it does that would be great!


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Sep 11, 2007)

im sorry i have been through this and find it hard,its all good
sorry


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## spilota_variegata (Sep 11, 2007)

Don't apologise Repile Girl and there's no need to explain. You were voicing your opinion and we all respect you for that. If any of us felt the same way, we would have said exactly the same.


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## bouncn (Sep 11, 2007)

in my limited experience on the topic, i think its best discussed, the attitude of ignoring it always makes problems worse


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## dodgie (Sep 11, 2007)

I hope this is not to dramatic.
You people say that it is selfish for people to take there own lives but as a man who has suffered from a severe disability from birth i think society in general are selfish.I have lost count the times when people give me that look or have a bit of a laugh at me being a little different,this has caused my depression.So many times i have felt very much on my own,not everyone has people thay can talk to like family or close friends that will listen. Youll be right or get over it what alot of people say but it doesn't always work.I am grateful for medication that helps alot.
If you hear that some one has taken there own life just remember that life is so different for every one.
I am not saying that i am suicidal,i love life,but i can understand how some people feel at times.
Now where is my violin.


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 12, 2007)

reptilegirl_jordan said:


> here goes then
> 
> u must be a real heartless person
> when a kid is in there darkest hour they need help not some peron saying thats the easy way out,
> when a teenage get it into there head they cant stop wat there gonna do,they just think its the best thing to do



Just because I don't support the idea of someone killing themselves doesn't make me heartless. I've already said in this thread that I feel depression is very real and very serious, but I still don't think that _anything_ warrants taking your own life.

all it does is hurt other people around you, and if you're too self absorbed thinking about your own problems to care what other people might think if you go through with it, then that's messed up.

I have had a very close friend of mine from school kill herself last year. You never really quite understand why they do it. She'd had a little bit of a bad run for 12 months, broken up with her boyfriend and her parents got divorced.... but to this day although my heart aches for the pain that she must have been going through, i'm still mad at her for taking the easy way out. Walking into her house after trying frantically to reach her on a phone after she told me what she was going to do, and finding her bloated, bleeding body in the bathtub with her wrists cut is something that I don't think will ever leave me.

There are _always_ better options than killing yourself imho, you just need to look.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

I've been sitting here for half an hour trying to find the words to explain my oppinion. But I can't. 

Recently my ex's best friend committed suicide. I myself, and someone that I am very close to, have struggled greatly in the past to deal with suicidal feelings. 

I have to say, without fully knowing the motives behind his suicide, I understand how it came to that.

I am incredibly fortunate. I have wonderfully a loving and supportive boyfriend, family and friends. Without these people I would not be here. I have learnt to know when I need help and to not be scared to ask for it. But it took me years to get to that point.

I am in two minds as to whether it is a selfish choice. It probably is, but at the same time, in my darkest times it has often seemed like the only options.


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## hornet (Sep 12, 2007)

i was suffering depression the last couple of years, i could never fit in, was always basicly just tagging along, i felt like totaly crap. had a few attempts, even had to get the cops round one day to get me into the ambulance. I'm alot better these days, my collection is growing and now i have so many things i want to achieve in life. I understand why people would want to leave this life but things do get better.


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## GravelRash (Sep 12, 2007)

hornet said:


> i was suffering depression the last couple of years, i could never fit in, was always basicly just tagging along, i felt like totaly crap. had a few attempts, even had to get the cops round one day to get me into the ambulance. I'm alot better these days, my collection is growing and now i have so many things i want to achieve in life. I understand why people would want to leave this life but things do get better.




*Very true hornet.
I'm struggling atm along with my partner with the worry n depression that goes along with JUST ONE of our many daily freak-outs, Parental Alienation.... Its a hard one for me to sit and watch how much it hurts....
BUT, 
One Day at a time, One Problem at a time and You'll find that issues DO get easier.

Time heals ALL wounds....
*


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## cmclean (Sep 12, 2007)

Good on you DragonKeeper. I was about to say the same line.

Remember, there are a lot of young people on here, who have not had the life experience or problems to know what depression is, or what mechanisms or behaviour it brings to the table.

Hopefully, none of you will be faced with this dilemma, and if you are, there is someone to listen to you or help.
Depression is a serious illness, one not too be dismissed so lightly.


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## Niomi (Sep 12, 2007)

I have dealt with Depressiion for years and in my darkest times sat there and contemplated suicide (never tried though) I have always managed to bring myself back up with thoughts of my family and friends and i would feel selfish leaving them. Its at the dark times that they simply arent a good enough reason to live. My Depression has always made me stop eating, i just dont get hungry. In high school, my best friend was bulimic and would cry at recess sitting there with me forcing me to eat when i weighed 42kg. (I dont have an eating disorder) and i didnt even think how it was affecting her. Although now looking back i feel guilty i never thought about it at the time. I can sympathise with anyone who has suffered depression or been affected by a suicide. My boyfriend has no sympathy for me when i feel down and while that hurts me deeply, i know his Dad suffered from Depression that affected the way he brought his kids up so i try to be understanding. Now i look forward to little things some people would probably find silly like reading a chapter of a book when i get home from work, or seeing a TV show i like.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to go through depression without the support of the people I love. I couldn't do it.


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## lilmissrazz (Sep 12, 2007)

well where do i start lol so my brain doesnt make "happy beans" so i've been on medication from about 16yo.... was in counseling when i was about 8 coz i had some sleeping probs etc.... medication is the only way i can function on a "normal" level basically, it was a very long few years trialing medications... as people who have had anti's before would know its a frustrating situation lol you just want to be "normal" and you think this lil pill will fix everything.... until you realise that its just to take the edge off... i'm very lucky i have a close supportive family and i know that with out them i probably wouldnt be here... I got to a point where i was sick of swapping meds trying to find one that didnt have side effects etc... was on one that sent me crazy.... self harm etc which ripped my mum up pretty bad but i felt as tho i wasnt real and that i couldnt feel.... the only thing that registered was pain... wasnt a high point in my life lol so i guess what im saying is..... its generally not a choice as to weather to be on medication..... one side of my family is the "suck it up and deal" kind of people but after seeing everything i went thru have since changed there opinions. So yes i agree suicide is selfish but its the only light in the dark when u feel like u are stuck inside a cell covered in barb wire and even your own thoughts are against you.... and in a moment of madness you have no one to tell you it will be ok and that they love you.... i dont think suicide is as cut n dry as the media makes out.... anywho thats just my 2 cents... i am no expert and dont ever want to feel like that again.... i guess what im saying is just be there.... knowing what its like to feel the whole world is against u and u cant even trust yourself..... i would bendover backwards to help anyone in that state coz its a lonely place.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

Couldn't have said it better myself Lil Miss Razz.


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## Niomi (Sep 12, 2007)

Very well said Lilmissrazz  It is indeed a very lonely place to be


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## hornet (Sep 12, 2007)

lilmissrazz said:


> well where do i start lol so my brain doesnt make "happy beans" so i've been on medication from about 16yo.... was in counseling when i was about 8 coz i had some sleeping probs etc.... medication is the only way i can function on a "normal" level basically, it was a very long few years trialing medications... as people who have had anti's before would know its a frustrating situation lol you just want to be "normal" and you think this lil pill will fix everything.... until you realise that its just to take the edge off... i'm very lucky i have a close supportive family and i know that with out them i probably wouldnt be here... I got to a point where i was sick of swapping meds trying to find one that didnt have side effects etc... was on one that sent me crazy.... self harm etc which ripped my mum up pretty bad but i felt as tho i wasnt real and that i couldnt feel.... the only thing that registered was pain... wasnt a high point in my life lol so i guess what im saying is..... its generally not a choice as to weather to be on medication..... one side of my family is the "suck it up and deal" kind of people but after seeing everything i went thru have since changed there opinions. So yes i agree suicide is selfish but its the only light in the dark when u feel like u are stuck inside a cell covered in barb wire and even your own thoughts are against you.... and in a moment of madness you have no one to tell you it will be ok and that they love you.... i dont think suicide is as cut n dry as the media makes out.... anywho thats just my 2 cents... i am no expert and dont ever want to feel like that again.... i guess what im saying is just be there.... knowing what its like to feel the whole world is against u and u cant even trust yourself..... i would bendover backwards to help anyone in that state coz its a lonely place.



spread the love, i lost so many friends in my darkest hour, i was smoking weed alot, even coming to school high, i did it to get away from my everyday life but it lost me friends.


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## Niomi (Sep 12, 2007)

Hornet you know you always have friends on APS  I came very close to smoking weed to escape reality and it was my friends who stopped me when i was in high school. I am thankful beyond belief to them for that!


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## hornet (Sep 12, 2007)

yea, i had some great friends but lost a few of them still got awsome mates these days tho. So many thing i was to do in life and hopefully will have done one in a month or so, discover a new species


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## natrix (Sep 12, 2007)

It's very sad for sure ; But it's also worth remembering that 99,988 out of 100,000 young men from
age 15-19 don't take their own lives .


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## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

hornet said:


> spread the love, i lost so many friends in my darkest hour, i was smoking weed alot, even coming to school high, i did it to get away from my everyday life but it lost me friends.



EVEN at high school :? isnt that the normal place to smoke weed :lol:
Dissapearing in a cloud of smoke for a bit here and there can be good for depression IMO but only if you live in SA or Amsterdam obviously.


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## hornet (Sep 12, 2007)

lol, not the best place at our school, i knew a heap of guys that got kicked out for it, suprised my ict teacher didnt catch on when i was randomly giggling in class, every1 else noticed on the way there when i was laughing at the roof.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

natrix said:


> It's very sad for sure ; But it's also worth remembering that 99,988 out of 100,000 young men from
> age 15-19 don't take their own lives .


 
Of course, but society needs to remember that there are huge numbers of people who struggle with suicial tendencies and need help and support.

There is a really fantastic book written by Kay Redfield Jamison called 'Night Falls Fast - Understanding Suicide'. It's the type of book which I can only read when I'm in the right frame of mind, but it is not only full of a large amount of quantative data regarding suicide rates and the effect upon the surrounding community, but also personal stories from a numberc of people. I really believe it gives such an accurate view on suicide and its effects upon the family and friends who are left behind. I find some parts of it giving me the strength to go on, and otheres reducing me to tears and leaving me feeling as though I have been torn open and there is nothing left.


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## Mystery (Sep 12, 2007)

I lost my mother and brother to suicide. My mother spent the majority of her like in mental institutions - back in the days when they were rat and cockroach infected. She had shock treatment many, many times. She was on every medication possible - she finally took her life in an institution. Call that selfish!!! She lived her life of hell - she just wanted to go to sleep and never wake up. My brother started to go through the same thing - was institutionalised a few times, he knew he was going down the same track as my mother - he was on meds, they weren't working. He used to tell me that it was like living in a black tunnel and there was no light at the end of it. Try living your life like that!! Not just for a couple of days - for years!!!! For those who call it selfish - You have no idea!!!!!!!!! He thought he was doing everyone a favour because he was a burden to us - I would give up everything tomorrow to have him back.


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## Miss B (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't think it's fair to say that suicide is "the easy way out". 

I think, to someone seriously contemplating suicide, it seems to be "the only way out", not "the easy way out". 

I myself struggled with depression (and still do, just not to the same degree I once did). I don't even know why... there doesn't seem to be any real reason. I have had a great life, wonderful upbringing with supportive parents, great friends. That was one of the things that made it so frustruting, I really couldn't pin the way I was feeling onto any real cause. Although I never attempted suicide, I do know what it feels like to not want to live anymore and it's pretty scary. Like you lilmiss, I was harming myself and did a pretty good job of keeping that hidden for a while - eventually my parents found out and cracked it big time, they were so upset. But luckily I have a very supportive family and without them, I don't know where I'd be today.

My Dad almost committed suicide when I was two years old, and someone else who I am very close to suffers from manic depression as a result of being molested as a child. It's funny, when the topic of suicide and depression comes up - everyone seems to know someone. It's obviously an issue that effects many, many people.

I can see why some people say that it's selfish or cowardly to commit suicide, but if you've ever been in that situation (not wanting to live) you would understand that it's really not that simple.


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## expansa1 (Sep 12, 2007)

theduclos said:


> No sympathy for anyone who kills themselves say what you will about people being depressed but at the end of the day i believe it is the most selfish move you can make, especially if you have a family to support. the only time i would ever even contemplate killing myself was if i was given life imprisonment without the chance of parole or if something along the lines came up like killing yourself to avoid torture then death. not that i have much chance of that happening in suburban melbourne.
> 
> I am not totally ignorant to the dangers of being depressed, i have an aunty and an uncle who has been on anti depressants for years. what mean by saying suicide is selfish its the 17yr old who broke up with his girlfiend, the 35yrold who lost his job/cant deal with the kids etc.



So what you're saying is that your excuse is better than others that commit suicide! ALL I can say is that unless YOU have personally suffered from major depression YOURSELF then you really don't have the right to judge people that have had or do have the illness. It is like persecuting someone with Cancer or Diabetes.


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## Mystery (Sep 12, 2007)

expansa1 said:


> So what you're saying is that your excuse is better than others that commit suicide! ALL I can say is that unless YOU have personally suffered from major depression YOURSELF then you really don't have the right to judge people that have or do have the illness. It is like persecuting someone with Cancer or Diabetes.



Well said - walk in their shoes for 1day!!!!


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## Niomi (Sep 12, 2007)

Miss B i know what you mean, i had a great upbringing and have nothing to complain about, i used to get angry at myself alot when i felt down cause i had no reason to feel that way! Now i just come to terms with it. Well Said Expansa you have no icea what it is like until you have personally lived it


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## expansa1 (Sep 12, 2007)

Mystery said:


> Well said - walk in their shoes for 1day!!!!



I have been for 6 years now and can fully understand BOTH sides of the story. You sometimes feel that there are NO other options and are blind to the fact that a new day is a new beginning. All you can focus on is the end!

1 in 4 people in Australia suffer from depression which is an awful lot!


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## Mystery (Sep 12, 2007)

expansa1 said:


> I have been for 6 years now and can fully understand BOTH sides of the story. You sometimes feel that there are NO other options and are blind to the fact that a new day is a new beginning. All you can focus on is the end!



I know the feeling - I have been there to after my brother took his life.


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## Miss B (Sep 12, 2007)

Niomi said:


> Miss B i know what you mean, i had a great upbringing and have nothing to complain about, i used to get angry at myself alot when i felt down cause i had no reason to feel that way!


 
Yup, it's hard. I used to think, "I have a great family, good job, great friends, supportive boyfriend - so why do I feel like this?" which in turn, would only frustrate me further.


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## lilmissrazz (Sep 12, 2007)

thats the same as me miss b.... but my brain is broken!! lmao nah i just dont make enuff "happy beans" and yea some **** has happened in my life which triggered it to bad point.... yea weed was my answer for a long time which made me worse (as it does), so i was taking uppers (anti depressants) and havein a downer (weed) lol great combo so i'd basically be where i started from ... just with a hour or so of hysterical laughter and about 30 mins of paranoia then about 15mins of feasting. Its a very hard cycle to break (depression) and honestly at your worst point you make the decision to either get help or... i don't know the other coz i got help... i'm lucky that my mum stood by me and basically pushed me to regain my life..... it felt like it wasnt "me" that i was just being dragged along by all this crap.... the emotions are bigger than you could imagine and for me all of those emotions where bad ones... i didnt have ups and downs i was just down.... i had better days but none where i wasn't totally depressed.... i use to hide it really well tho.... i'm generally the one to make people laugh and get told all the time how funny i am..... after i got a grip i realised that making people smile made me smile so i guess its a good combo.... so i just try and surround myself with happy people.... and if they're not i try and make em happy lol coz we are all connected so your bad day pretty much effects everyone you come in contact with. i know that sounds lame but if someone is laughing and your watching them you'll realise that you are grinning. so yea spread the love! hehehe whoa flash back to the 60's *drops keys in a bowl and winks at the hot guy in the corner* lmao


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

of course suicide is selfish!
but thats hardly the point....

everything just crushes you, anything good your head makes bad, anything bad justifies the hurt....
and in the end it becomes just about stopping the pain...
and people the so sanctimoniously sit there and say "it selfish i have no pity blah blah" well.... we don't want your pity, but your condemnation makes it harder for people to break their cycle and get help...
again making suicide the only viable end to the pain.
so yes, it is selfish...
but when EVERYTHING, and i mean everything, hurts to the point where the effort in getting out of bed drains you for the entire day, then yu kind of have a right to be selfish about wanting it to stop.....



that said, philosphical suicide is a noble endeavour


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

dulcos, you said you'd only ever consider suicide if you had a life sentance no parole....

you do realise for most people with severe depression that is life....
constant pain, not being able to leave your head, and knowing there is no way out.


but suicide done properly makes you god


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## Niomi (Sep 12, 2007)

Geez Forensick you do things with words i didnt believe existed! Well said


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## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

Forensick said:


> that said, philosphical suicide is a noble endeavour





Forensick said:


> but suicide done properly makes you god



This has gone over my head what does it mean?


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

its a existentialist absurdist philosophy.

that only somene truly considering suicide is true philospher... as only someone truly prepared to end life is REALLY looking at whether despite everything is life worth living....

it extends to, that if there is a creator god, then only he has the power to create... but destruction has to be the equal of creation.
so if thats the power of a god.... if you kill yourself you assume the supreme power of destruction, and by default creation too....

thus giving you the power of a god.... making you god....

paraphrasing ALOT... but i hope that explains it


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

there are many similar points around...

like dostoyevskis Kirilov, in a search for freedom, proves that there is no god, through his suicide


but all that said,,,
an existentialist has to reject suicide, despite its potential nobility....
even negative emotions are a postive things as they belong to you, 


its worth noting that the philosphies that glorify suicide, and yet at the same time reject it (that is absurd, that is the point), is what saved me

My heart within me I can feel, and I judge that it exists. This world I can touch, and I likewise judge that it exists. There ends all my knowledge, and the rest is construction.


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 12, 2007)

Forensick,

There's a big difference between pity & condemnation. I don't think anyone here is _condemning_ anyone for having depression or contemplating suicide. Of course people with depression don't _want _pity, but by the same token you'd again be naive to think that everyone who thinks they have depression actually HAS it, instead of just looking for attention.


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## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

oh okies, been through that sort of thinking about 10 years ago(i think it is logically flawed).


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## sxc_celly (Sep 12, 2007)

I agree with Bung eye here. Its very hard to deal with depression - i know. My best friend went through it for years. Shes as happy as can be these days now. Suicide i agree is a cowardice easy way out - which leave other depressed and heartbroken.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> Forensick,
> 
> There's a big difference between pity & condemnation. I don't think anyone here is _condemning_ anyone for having depression or contemplating suicide. Of course people with depression don't _want _pity, but by the same token you'd again be naive to think that everyone who thinks they have depression actually HAS it, instead of just looking for attention.


 
I spent a very long time dealing with depression without the support of my family and trying to cover it up from them because I was always the good child, never the trouble maker like my step brothers. I believed that if I said anything to my parents they would think that I was only saying it because I was constantly being over looked because my problems involved a silent struggle, not taking drugs, abusing family and destroying property.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that perhaps it is better to pay attention even if you might not think it's serious just because you think the person is incapable of such thoughts.


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

bung eye, i went to a catholic high school.... condemnation fits...
a friend of mine commited suicide and they would let her funeral even be at her church of 16 years.

and cris, its a logically sound as any religion/philosphy

and 1 thing often has 2 opposite meanings anyway....


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## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

Forensick said:


> and cris, its a logically sound as any religion/philosphy


Yeah i consider every religion i have knowledge of to be logically flawed too, i used to think way too much about these sorts of things JMO others can follow whatever they want alslong as they dont try and drag me down too.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

sxc_celly said:


> I agree with Bung eye here. Its very hard to deal with depression - i know. My best friend went through it for years. Shes as happy as can be these days now. Suicide i agree is a cowardice easy way out - which leave other depressed and heartbroken.


 
The rate of cluster suicides is quite high too I believe. Apparently the average person spends 4 years greiving when they lose a loved one and the chances of those left behind committing suicide is greatly increased within this period.

A few years ago I did a large project on the effect of suicide on the bereaved. The project itself was an incredible eye opener and a very emotional experience, especially at a time when I was struggling with my own issues. The statistics continue to amaze me, but stats pale in comparison to speaking to the people who have been directly affected by the suicide of a loved one. It's absolutely heartbreaking.


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 12, 2007)

I've said numerous times in this thread that I believe depression to be something very serious Erin, and indeed something that needs attention.

Forensick, I too attended a primarily catholic school, and I too had a friend kill herself (look on about page 3 for the story). They wouldn't have her funeral @ her church either. because she killed herself. That's condemnation from the church, but at the end of the day I find all religion to be funamentally flawed just the same as many do, and therefore if the church didn't want to have her funeral there then that's their own loss as far as i'm concerned.

What my previous posts were putting across was not condemnation from myself, more pity and heartache for the families of those that have topped themselves and left grieving families behind.


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## Erin_Jane (Sep 12, 2007)

Bung-Eye said:


> I've said numerous times in this thread that I believe depression to be something very serious Erin, and indeed something that needs attention.quote]
> 
> I never mean to imply that you didn't think it was serious. I was merely saying that I believe it deserves more attention perhaps?


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Sep 12, 2007)

Mystery said:


> I lost my mother and brother to suicide. My mother spent the majority of her like in mental institutions - back in the days when they were rat and cockroach infected. She had shock treatment many, many times. She was on every medication possible - she finally took her life in an institution. Call that selfish!!! She lived her life of hell - she just wanted to go to sleep and never wake up. My brother started to go through the same thing - was institutionalised a few times, he knew he was going down the same track as my mother - he was on meds, they weren't working. He used to tell me that it was like living in a black tunnel and there was no light at the end of it. Try living your life like that!! Not just for a couple of days - for years!!!! For those who call it selfish - You have no idea!!!!!!!!! He thought he was doing everyone a favour because he was a burden to us - I would give up everything tomorrow to have him back.


 weel said,thats what i was trying to get across,im like that now on med and all the crap,iv have been institutions many times and when i was that deep i thought i was doing the world a favour,i have self harmed for years now and i thought i was really doing the people around me the biggest favour,then one day in my darkest hour i did try and kill myself at the time i didnt think it was selfish i thought i was doing the best thing for everyone,i really did wanna die.

anyone on this site that need a talk about anything,im here,i dont want people to go through all that


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 12, 2007)

I feel the worst thing is that it happens in people so young...

Even though severe depression clouds judgment, most adults have the wisdom to seek help.

But teenagers think they are weak, they think that they can't talk to anyone, last year my best friend committed suicide (he was only 14) none of us knew why, obviously it was something deep, but I know that I wouldn't have gotten help, if I was in the same position as him I definitely wouldn't have seeken counseling, I don't know why, even though I know that it is the most logical think to do I just wouldn't have.

The school was great though, they provided excellent counseling for everyone who needed it.

And even worse is that if one person commits suicide people around them who are grieving tend to have the same thoughts, I had suicidal thoughts after he killed himself, but I quickly got over it... but others don't.

I think instead of spending thousands of dollars on obesity the government should provide better, and more accessible counseling services.

And also for anyone here that has felt like they had no-one to turn to, you do. You have friends and family, even if you don't think so, they do care...


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## Mystery (Sep 12, 2007)

DragonKeeper - you seem very mature for your age, you also seem like a very caring person and a good friend - it's a shame he didn't confide in you. Everything you say is true. A lot of males don't like to admit they have a problem, especially at 14. Until suicide personally touches you, you don't realise just how bad it is and how many people it affects. It's like dropping a pebble into the water - the ripples just keep going.


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## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

I have been to counselling once(school made me) i thought it was pathetic and a waste of time, i wasnt really to keen on being brain washed and in the end i just told him i would say whatever he wanted me to.

He got me to say crap like i will never get drunk or smoke etc. :lol: thats likely to happen.

Im sure it would help plenty of others though, differant ppl deal with things differantly. This sort of thing definately isnt a "one size fits all" scenario.


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## Mrs I (Sep 12, 2007)

Mystery said:


> . It's like dropping a pebble into the water - the ripples just keep going.


 

Well said Mystery

Mrs I

xxx


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## Mrs I (Sep 12, 2007)

I think this post has done very well for the people int his forum that do have problems.

Noone should ever feel that they are alone and sometimes you will find friends in the most unlikely places.

We may not all know each other very well but sometimes people you dont know too well are often the best people to talk to.

Dont ever judge a book by its cover because inside the cover is always a surprize or two.

Enough said on this subject from me ... but if anyone ever feels they need to chat about anything good bad or indifferent. If you have no one else pm me !! I would rather you talk to someone than no one.

Mrs I

xxx


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## DragonKeeper (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh, and also...

If this thread is upsetting anyone just PM me and I will ask one of the mods to close it...


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## Bung-Eye (Sep 12, 2007)

yes in the spirit of all this, nothing i've said was meant to be in spite, just trying to put my point across, and I'm not very eloquent with words.


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## spongebob (Sep 12, 2007)

If anyone who is reading this thread feels they need help or if anyone you know may need help please reach out.............

http://reachout.com.au/home.asp

another good organisation is 

http://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au/

Depression is treatable. Unfortunately those who suicide cant be. The best solution is not to turn away but reach out...................

Bob
(I'm in the business of helping those who need help and I've lost two close friends to depression)


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## nuthn2do (Sep 12, 2007)

I think most people contributing to this thread have been hit in some way by this insidious disease, it doesn't discriminate.
A neighbor (17 years as an ambo) and recently a family member (counseling/mental health for 25 years) have both attempted suicide, sadly one was successful. Point is both were happily married with what most would think close to a perfect life. Certainly with their experiences they were fully aware of the ramifications to friends and family but it made no difference, reality at that stage of depression is non existent. 
It's an illness like any other and without the correct treatment it's more than likely going to be terminal.


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## Forensick (Sep 12, 2007)

someone said a few pages back it affect boys more....

i'm afrain i have to disagree, the difference in #s between male and female suicide rates is because of method, not intent...
males tend to go for more violent DEFINATE ways, whereas females tend to go for "cleaner" painless ways (ie pills)
the "cleaner" methods have a much higher fail rate

when you include male and female attempts and suicides together the numbers are very similar


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## elle_carlisle (Sep 12, 2007)

I have clinical depression and I can see where both sides are coming from. Mrs I, drug abuse has always been a problem, from marijuana to opium to alcohol. But the increasing availability in pharmaceutical drugs is a huge step in the right direction for people with depression. Anti-depressants are getting to be a bit over-diagnosed but they really do save lives. My friend's father abused drugs shortly before committing suicide, but I think that was just part of his downward spiral. I got so angry at my friend for attempting suicide after the death of his father, because he had seen what that had done to his family. I thought he was selfish and stupid. I empathise with him now that I've gotten over the anger and betrayal I felt at his attempted suicide. It's not worth it, if you love the people around you don't so it. And if you don't love the people around you then you just haven't found the right people yet.


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## Forensick (Sep 13, 2007)

i actually became WORSE on antidepressants...

a mis diagnois of depression, when somene is manic depressive, can be a very very bad thing


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