# Keeping several pythons together in one enclosure



## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

I got my 4 new snakes - and they are huge! They are two pairs, one pair of Bredli and one pair of Murray Darlings, between 5 and 8 years old, and really big. I have got two fully equipped enclosures, about 5 feet (150cm) high and 2-3 feet wide and deep, and two water tanks, about 4 feet wide, and all these enclosures appear too small to me. I have also a fully equipped large cattery cage outdoors, and so I risked to put the snakes together in there. First the two females together, and they were friendly and loved the place. There are hiding boxes and cat trees to climb on, wind-protected basking places, etc. I also put a bathtub with water in there and mounted a heat lamp on the ceiling for the night (outdoor temperatures go down to 6 degrees these days). After a few hours, I added the MD male, and he was friendly with the girls and happy there, too. Over night, the girls chose to sleep in cat tree boxes, the boy cuddled himself underneath a blanket near the heat lamp. Today, I took the MD boy out and put the Bredli boy in. He also was friendly with the girls and happily explored everything. All these pythons have been kept separately by now and have never met anyone of their own kind before.

My question: Can I dare to put the second male back into the large enclosure, so two males share the same enclosure with the females? I read that, during breeding season, males tend to fight and would bite each other. What about outside of the breeding season? The Bredli male is the only one out of the four who by now showed aggression - he tried to bite me several times (and then bit me indeed into my worker's glove when I took him out of his small enclosure). I fed him a rat yesterday to calm him down (the other ones refused to eat yesterday), but today he was just as aggressive towards me when I took him out. However, with the female snakes he is fine. Could it be dangerous to expose him to the other male? What do I do when they start fighting? Is it difficult to separate fighting snakes? As I said, they are huge, fully grown pythons. Even the males are about 3 metres long.


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## Riffherper (Apr 18, 2013)

With the temps described and coming into breeding season I would think the males would combat so I wouldn't advise it. In saying that I personally don't like keeping more than one snake in each enclosure but that's just me.


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## sharky (Apr 18, 2013)

DON'T! Why do you want to risk it? Yes, the males will fight if put in the same enclosure. Why are you even considering it!? You are only harming your snakes! If you can't provide seperate enclosures for the snakes then you really shouldn't be owning them. Sorry, but that is just the way I see it.

I keep my male bredli in a 180x100x60cm enclosure and that will last him his whole life. (Up to just over 3m-ish)

Also you shouldn't be keeping 2 different species in the same enclosure, no matter the gender.

EDIT: I also agree with the above post. I don't like keeping 2 snakes in the same enclosure. Too many risks :?


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## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

Riffherper said:


> With the temps described and coming into breeding season I would think the males would combat so I wouldn't advise it. In saying that I personally don't like keeping more than one snake in each enclosure but that's just me.



"Coming into breeding season?" I thought breeding season starts in September - here in Australia. Am I wrongly informed?


I should add that the cattery cage is about 2.5 X 2.5 x 2 metres large and that I expect the snakes to hibernate over winter, from about beginning of May until September. I will definitely seperate the species before they wake up again, so not to create hybrids.


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## Snowman (Apr 18, 2013)

Aussie pythons don't hibernate.... I think you have a lot to learn and you need to read a few books on keeping and breeding Australian pythons. Many breed through winter. Though SWCP breed October November.


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## Brodie (Apr 18, 2013)

Both Bredli and MDs are late breeders. MDs around September and Bredli as late as November. Having said that i have had MDs mate as early as July. I would advise against keeping them in the same enclosure though. Many people have done so successfully but it is just not worth the risk. Buy some more cages or sell some snakes.


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## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Aussie pythons don't hibernate.... I think you have a lot to learn and you need to read a few books on keeping and breeding Australian pythons. Many breed through winter. Though SWCP breed October November.



Perhaps I have used the wrong term when I wrote "hibernate". But all the websites I read say that, although indoor pet snakes can be kept awake throughout winter, to prepare them for breeding you have to cool them down from May to September and not feed them during this time, while they sleep and hardly ever even move.


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## Snowman (Apr 18, 2013)

They are still active and bask when the sun is out... Keeping in an aviary is only advised if the species occurs naturally in your area / climate. As stated above. If you can't cage them properly you need to get rid of some our build suitable enclosures.


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## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

Brodie said:


> Both Bredli and MDs are late breeders. MDs around September and Bredli as late as November. Having said that i have had MDs mate as early as July. I would advise against keeping them in the same enclosure though. Many people have done so successfully but it is just not worth the risk. Buy some more cages or sell some snakes.



This sounds like sound knowledge and advice. I have now taken the male out (as i can't watch them 24/7) and put both males, separately, into the two bigger enclosures that I have got: 155 cm and 160 cm tall, and each about 65 cm deep and 70 cm wide. The water tanks are definitely too small for either of the snakes. For the females who are bigger than the males (about 3.5m each) I may need to find another solution. For the time being, the outdoor cattery seems ideal. But I guess when they lay eggs, they may become protective = aggressive. I don't know. With regards to mating - doesn't it happen only around the time of ovulation? I thought as long as I don't see the females underbelly swell up (showing the presence of eggs), no mating could be expected. Or am I wrong again?


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## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

Snowman said:


> They are still active and bask when the sun is out... Keeping in an aviary is only advised if the species occurs naturally in your area / climate. As stated above. If you can't cage them properly you need to get rid of some our build suitable enclosures.



The Murray Darling Carpet Pythons do actually occur naturally in our area (Riverland, SA). So, I am very happy to hear that - I may keep at least the MD girl where she is now and let her look after her eggs "in her (almost) natural homelands".
But what would be the perfect enclosure for Bredli Pythons? Also called Centralian Carpet Pythons, they occur in the centre of Australia, in the desert mountains near Alice Springs, where it is a bit hotter at daytime than here and just as cold at night. While MDs love climbing on trees, Bredlis rather love slithering on rocks and hiding in caves. So, there are a few differences. Most of all, what size of enclosure is ideal for them, and indoors or outdoors?


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## Snowman (Apr 18, 2013)

Inside you could get away with 1800L x 1000H x 600D. But I'd only put one animal in that. That's if they are 3.5m snakes.


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## stimigex (Apr 18, 2013)

I for one would like to see these 3.5m pythons !! (nearly 11.5 foot)


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## Starter (Apr 18, 2013)

stimigex said:


> I for one would like to see these 3.5m pythons !! (nearly 11.5 foot)



OK, that was just an estimate and perhaps a bit over the top, but I haven't had the chance yet to measure them completely stretched out. They are definitely longer than 2 metres each, and the girls about 30% larger than the males and much fatter in the middle.


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## Jungletrans (Apr 18, 2013)

There are people out there that would keep pythons that big in tubs [ not me ] so why put them all together when you have suitable housing . If you insist on putting them in together set up a video camera . When you have no snakes left you might be able to sell the vid on utube .


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## Paintbrushturkey (Apr 18, 2013)

if i were you i wouldn't put a bredli male with the md girl, or vice versa... you can get into some trouble for hybridising species... also your males will probably kill each other during mating season if you put them together (as they will have no retreat options in an enclosure), they can do a surprising amount of damage in a relatively short amount of time....


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## nintendont (Apr 18, 2013)

Paintbrushturkey said:


> you can get into some trouble for hybridising species...


isnt Bredli X MD called a cross breed because theyre both carpets? Im not into crosses or hybrids (an example of a hybrid to my understanding would be Water python X Carpet) but I am curious to know more about this trouble you speak of? Which states?


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## RedFox (Apr 18, 2013)

nintendont said:


> isnt Bredli X MD called a cross breed because theyre both carpets? Im not into crosses or hybrids (an example of a hybrid to my understanding would be Water python X Carpet) but I am curious to know more about this trouble you speak of? Which states?



Generally on our species lists jungles, diamonds, coastals, MDs, SWCP, darwins, etc. are all classed as carpet pythons (Morelia spilota). Therefore it is legal to cross the different subspecies of Morelia spilota in all states. As bredli (Morelia bredli) are not of the same species even though they are of the same genus, it is illegal for a MD and a Bredli to reproduce in some states.


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## Snowman (Apr 18, 2013)

RedFox said:


> Generally on our species lists jungles, diamonds, coastals, MDs, SWCP, darwins, etc. are all classed as carpet pythons (Morelia spilota). Therefore it is legal to cross the different subspecies of Morelia spilota in all states. As bredli (Morelia bredli) are not of the same species even though they are of the same genus, it is illegal for a MD and a Bredli to reproduce in some states.


Not all states. WA it is certainly illegal to cross sub species. And sub species are listed as such.


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## RedFox (Apr 18, 2013)

I stand corrected. Most states then.


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## champagne (Apr 18, 2013)

ok both md and bredli would do fine outside in Riverland, SA. I wouldn't keep to different species in together and defiantly not two males. Don't just do want the ''experts'' on here say but rather take their advise on board but do your own research.... just because something hasn't worked for them doesn't mean it wont for you a visa versa.


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## champagne (Apr 18, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Not all states. WA it is certainly illegal to cross sub species. And sub species are listed as such.


 it is illegal to own any of the east coast sub species in wa, so it doesn't matter if its legal or not....


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## Snowman (Apr 18, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> it is illegal to own any of the east coast sub species in wa, so it doesn't matter if its legal or not....


Come on mate. We have NWCP and SWCP. Some people have both under the right licenses.... Two sub species of Morelia spilota occur in WA.


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## Paintbrushturkey (Apr 18, 2013)

RedFox said:


> Generally on our species lists jungles, diamonds, coastals, MDs, SWCP, darwins, etc. are all classed as carpet pythons (Morelia spilota). Therefore it is legal to cross the different subspecies of Morelia spilota in all states. As bredli (Morelia bredli) are not of the same species even though they are of the same genus, it is illegal for a MD and a Bredli to reproduce in some states.



Correct, also be aware that keeping a male and female snake in the same enclosure is classed as "intend to breed". personally i like to keep my lines "pure" (as far as that is possible) even though i think there have been reports of spilota subspecies crosses in the wild, ultimately i guess it comes down to personal preference...


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## nintendont (Apr 18, 2013)

RedFox said:


> Generally on our species lists jungles, diamonds, coastals, MDs, SWCP, darwins, etc. are all classed as carpet pythons (Morelia spilota). Therefore it is legal to cross the different subspecies of Morelia spilota in all states. As bredli (Morelia bredli) are not of the same species even though they are of the same genus, it is illegal for a MD and a Bredli to reproduce in some states.


Im confused now. So the Centralian Carpet Python is not even a carpet python? I thought it was Morelia Spilota Bredli...according to my searches you are correct and it is Morelia Bredli (seperate species) so is Central Carpet just a case of the wrong name sticking like King Brown?


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## Paintbrushturkey (Apr 18, 2013)

that is why common names suck, it looks like a carpet but isn't a "spilota carpet" the problem is that Morelia species are commonly refered to as carpets, but spilota are also refered to as carpets, e.g bredli (centralian carpet), amethystine (scrubby), viridis (green tree). to my knowledge all of these can interbreed, but are not spilota. to my knowledge kind brown was originally classed as naja and then as pseudoechis, whilst bredli were once morelia spilota bredli, but DNA typing has actually shown them to be a distinct species, but i haven't done detailed research on the taxonomy


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## champagne (Apr 18, 2013)

Paintbrushturkey said:


> Correct, also be aware that keeping a male and female snake in the same enclosure is classed as "intend to breed".



where did you find this information? I have never heard of that before.


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## saintanger (Apr 18, 2013)

i keep 2 adult bredli's together in a large enclosure male/ female. alot of people are against keeping any species together but some species can be found in the wild sharing the same hide ect. i put alot of time and effort into introducing my pythons and making sure there was no agression between them. i have never had a fight or death between snakes kept together. as long as they are feed well and not agressive to the other python they are fine.

i don't recomend a newbie keep pythons together, best off building 2 indoor enclosures for the bredli's and is it possible to half the outdoor enclosure or extend it and make it 2 separate outdoor inclosures for the MD's.

i would never keep 2 males together, and i would not mix species.


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## Starter (Apr 19, 2013)

Paintbrushturkey said:


> that is why common names suck, it looks like a carpet but isn't a "spilota carpet" the problem is that Morelia species are commonly refered to as carpets, but spilota are also refered to as carpets, e.g bredli (centralian carpet), amethystine (scrubby), viridis (green tree). to my knowledge all of these can interbreed, but are not spilota. to my knowledge kind brown was originally classed as naja and then as pseudoechis, whilst bredli were once morelia spilota bredli, but DNA typing has actually shown them to be a distinct species, but i haven't done detailed research on the taxonomy



Lots of terms to learn, but what struck me here is the term 
*"DNA typing"*​
*I know from my dog and cat breeding that DNA testing has hugely progressed over the last decade. What can it do for snakes? Perhaps we should open up a new thread for that, because I believe that this is an extremely interesting means of science. 
*
I recently picked up a leaflet about our local Murray Darling Carpet Python from our local Wildlife Protection Office and it says, "We don't know much about this species and their behaviour ..." Well, I guess, if hobby snake breeders put some funds into DNA tests and other lab work and keep logbooks and records about what their snakes are doing, we might even be able to become national heroes!


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## Starter (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi mates, I wish to express a HUGE THANK YOU to you right here. You have taught me so much in this one, single thread!

By now, I didn't even know that the two python species which I have acquired could possibly "interbreed". I thought - two different species? Well, then it is just like dog and cat, or cat and fox, or dog and hyena - they cannot produce offspring because they are too different. But obviously, in pythons, the term "species" must be interpreted rather as "variety" or what dog and cat breeders call "breed". So, thank you for the education that they could produce some sort of unwanted mix-bred offspring which in snake lover's languange is called "hybrids". 
Now, I will definitely keep both species apart. Especially, as someone mentioned that it is even "illegal" to allow interracial boy and girl sex to happen! 

I have followed your advice and have put both males away from the cattery cage into separate enclosures. However, I gave them the enclosures which formerly belonged to the females, because I think that the water tanks in which the boys were before (is that what some of you call "tubs"?) were/are absolutely inappropriate for such large snakes. In the enclosures which I bought with the females, the boys now have 3 levels to change from cool (with a water bowl) to medium (with a blanket to hide under) to warm (with a heat lamp and a UV lamp), so I'd say this is sufficient to start with. Further, I think that the smell of the respective female who lived in there before (and the carpet floorings haven't been washed since) may give the boys the right dreams for their winter sleep ... 

The two big girls, however, are still in the large outdoor cattery cage - together. If I find a way how to post pictures here, I will show it to you. I believe it is a real "paradise" for snakes, featuring everything they find in their natural habitats and with lots of hiding places. With this size and quality of habitat, I believe that the two females can live together peacefully. I will screw on a stronger heat lamp tomorrow which I just bought, together with other snake acessories, so there will even be two basking platforms. 

Python breeding is a very expensive hobby, isn't it? Just spent another $350 today only on cage accessories. But I love the idea anyway. I hope it will work out in spring and give us some snake babies!


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## Paintbrushturkey (Apr 19, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> where did you find this information? I have never heard of that before.



Information was obtained from the QLD licencing FAQ, regarding restricted species on a recreational licence, ie you may own to womas (restricted species in QLD) but not place them in the same cage if they are male and female unless you have an advanced licence


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## Irbz_27 (Apr 19, 2013)

Mate don't take offense to this, but you sound quite inexperienced in the hobby. And probably very under researched... You've only just got the snakes and you're talking breeding? I'd probably hold off on that a bit if I where you. Continue with more research, constantly learning. I'd be getting all my husbandry practices right first and foremost. So much to learn bud. I'm no expert, far from it but that is my opinion. It's not just a matter of snakes having a nap, waking up and chopping then 9 months later a little baby one comes out and mummy snake breast feeds til it's ready to look after itself then happy days...
My suggestion to you, get some books, use Internet searches... Learn more


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 19, 2013)

Starter said:


> Hi mates, I wish to express a HUGE THANK YOU to you right here. You have taught me so much in this one, single thread!
> 
> By now, I didn't even know that the two python species which I have acquired could possibly "interbreed". I thought - two different species? Well, then it is just like dog and cat, or cat and fox, or dog and hyena - they cannot produce offspring because they are too different. But obviously, in pythons, the term "species" must be interpreted rather as "variety" or what dog and cat breeders call "breed". So, thank you for the education that they could produce some sort of unwanted mix-bred offspring which in snake lover's languange is called "hybrids".
> Now, I will definitely keep both species apart. Especially, as someone mentioned that it is even "illegal" to allow interracial boy and girl sex to happen!
> ...



I think, from your conversation here, that you have a lot to learn before even considering breeding these snakes, especially if you keep them in an outdoor enclosure. Just because the accommodation appears to you to be OK doesn't mean it will suit them, especially through a very cold winter. Snakes have access to a far wider range of microclimates in the wild than we can ever provide them with in captivity, and they know what they need to stay alive through the winter. I suggest your animals run a very great risk of dying from a respiratory infection sometime thorough the winter once their immune systems slow down along with their metabolism, and you won't even know they are ill before it's too late because once they shut down, you will not be able to disturb them to check on them.

Similarly with egg-laying and incubation, the female will find a niche with the correct range of temperatures and humidity (very important) for the 8 week + incubation period... if your "cattery" exceeds the maximum temps for even a few hours, and is too dry during the summer period, the eggs will die, or she will desert them. What do you propose to do when (or if) the eggs hatch and the babies have disappeared out of the cattery before you know it?

You've got a long way to go...

Jamie


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## RedFox (Apr 19, 2013)

Keeping and breeding Australian pythons- by Mike Swan is a great book and a good starting point for learning basic husbandry let alone breeding. 

http://www.herpbooks.com.au/cms/hus...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=73&category_id=17

The complete carpet python is meant to be good as well. 

http://www.herpbooks.com.au/cms/hus...age=flypage.tpl&product_id=178&category_id=17

I agree with the others, sort out your husbandry first then think about breeding. There is no rush. And make sure all your lights have cages around them so there is no chance of your snakes burning themselves.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 19, 2013)

Starter said:


> I have followed your advice and have put both males away from the cattery cage into separate enclosures. However, I gave them the enclosures which formerly belonged to the females, because I think that the water tanks in which the boys were before (is that what some of you call "tubs"?) were/are absolutely inappropriate for such large snakes. In the enclosures which I bought with the females, the boys now have 3 levels to change from cool (with a water bowl) to medium (with a blanket to hide under) to warm (with a heat lamp and a UV lamp), so I'd say this is sufficient to start with. Further, I think that the smell of the respective female who lived in there before (and the carpet floorings haven't been washed since) may give the boys the right dreams for their winter sleep ...
> 
> 
> Python breeding is a very expensive hobby, isn't it? Just spent another $350 today only on cage accessories. But I love the idea anyway. I hope it will work out in spring and give us some snake babies!



snakes dont need blankets!!

if you think its expensive now wait until you have a crapload of hatchies to house and feed.


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## andynic07 (Apr 19, 2013)

Sezzzzzzzzz said:


> snakes dont need blankets!!
> 
> if you think its expensive now wait until you have a crapload of hatchies to house and feed.


Not to mention the possible need for either freshly killed or live pinkies if there are any difficult starters.


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## Jungletrans (Apr 19, 2013)

And when you cant sell them due to everyone breeding unwanted snakes [ they all want albinos ] you will be drowning in snakes . Have fun :]


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## champagne (Apr 19, 2013)

Jungletrans said:


> And when you cant sell them due to everyone breeding unwanted snakes [ they all want albinos ] you will be drowning in snakes . Have fun :]



you can pick up most if not all the sub species for $100 or less, so should they not be breed unless its a morph?



Pythoninfinite said:


> I think, from your conversation here, that you have a lot to learn before even considering breeding these snakes, especially if you keep them in an outdoor enclosure. Just because the accommodation appears to you to be OK doesn't mean it will suit them, especially through a very cold winter. Snakes have access to a far wider range of microclimates in the wild than we can ever provide them with in captivity, and they know what they need to stay alive through the winter. I suggest your animals run a very great risk of dying from a respiratory infection sometime thorough the winter once their immune systems slow down along with their metabolism, and you won't even know they are ill before it's too late because once they shut down, you will not be able to disturb them to check on them.
> 
> Similarly with egg-laying and incubation, the female will find a niche with the correct range of temperatures and humidity (very important) for the 8 week + incubation period... if your "cattery" exceeds the maximum temps for even a few hours, and is too dry during the summer period, the eggs will die, or she will desert them. What do you propose to do when (or if) the eggs hatch and the babies have disappeared out of the cattery before you know it?
> 
> ...



keeping snakes outside is not for someone that is new to keeping reptiles and hasn't done any research but carpet pythons can be kept outside successfully if you know what you are doing..... I have a friend that lives in Brisbane that keeps gtp outside all year round and they breed every year.


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## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

Sezzzzzzzzz said:


> snakes dont need blankets!!
> 
> if you think its expensive now wait until you have a crapload of hatchies to house and feed.



But they are warm blooded.. So the heat they produce under a blanket will be trapped and that together with the heat they are producing will keep them warm... Oh wait, they are cold blooded arent they! So under the blanket will be just as cold as above without a heat source. Hmmmmm


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## andynic07 (Apr 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> But they are warm blooded.. So the heat they produce under a blanket will be trapped and that together with the heat they are producing will keep them warm... Oh wait, they are cold blooded arent they! So under the blanket will be just as cold as above without a heat source. Hmmmmm


It is surprising how many people have trouble getting their head around that concept.


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## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> It is surprising how many people have trouble getting their head around that concept.


Yet no doubt the same people have experienced hopping into a cold bed that warms up in a few minutes with body heat... Makes you wonder.


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## andynic07 (Apr 19, 2013)

I usually let my snake go to bed an hour before me to warm up my bed for me.


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## champagne (Apr 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> But they are warm blooded.. So the heat they produce under a blanket will be trapped and that together with the heat they are producing will keep them warm... Oh wait, they are cold blooded arent they! So under the blanket will be just as cold as above without a heat source. Hmmmmm


Isn't wool an insulator? so it would hold the residual heat.... so if a warm python climbed under a blanket the heat would be trapped for longer?


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## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> Isn't wool an insulator? so it would hold the residual heat.... so if a warm python climbed under a blanket the heat would be trapped for longer?


How is the python going to get warm when it's cold outside? If it was already warm it wouldn't need a blanket (if indeed the blanket provided heat).


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Apr 19, 2013)

Pretty sure he said blanket to HIDE under, not to keep warm. Way to grab the ball and run with it again but aye guys...


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## Starter (Apr 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> How is the python going to get warm when it's cold outside? If it was already warm it wouldn't need a blanket (if indeed the blanket provided heat).



Actually - not a bad idea! Does anyone of you use electric blankets for their snakes, as many people have in their beds to warm up? 
I looked at heat mats for snakes in the pet shop recently and they are all very small and very expensive (I would have to connect at least five of them for each of my snakes, to make a mat that would accommodate their whole bodies). As I wrote before (BTW, I am female), at least one of my new snakes seems to love hiding underneath of blankets.


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## montysrainbow (Apr 19, 2013)

hmm....if I were u I would house them all separately do a bit more research and consider breeding them next yr. As for the blankets I would never use electric, y not stick to bulbs? or heat cords? just a thought.


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## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

Starter said:


> Actually - not a bad idea! Does anyone of you use electric blankets for their snakes, as many people have in their beds to warm up?
> I looked at heat mats for snakes in the pet shop recently and they are all very small and very expensive (I would have to connect at least five of them for each of my snakes, to make a mat that would accommodate their whole bodies). As I wrote before (BTW, I am female), at least one of my new snakes seems to love hiding underneath of blankets.


They would be hiding under the blanket because it makes them feel secure. A hide where three sides of the snakes body is touching a surface feels very safe. Especially in a new outdoor enclosure. Likewise a rock they could squeeze under would give the same feeling of security. 
People have used electiric blankets before. After all its basically a heat cord. I know if at least one person who places click clacks on electric blanket cords he gets from salvo shops. 
Heat mats won't heat a 3 meter python. You really need a lage heated tile using a heat cord or a globe/Che in a vivarium. Providing outdoor heating is not very practical. 
At present I kind of feel sorry for the snakes you have. It sounds like you are struggling to grasp some of the basic husbandry skills to allow a snake in captivity to thermo regulate its body temperature.


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## andynic07 (Apr 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> They would be hiding under the blanket because it makes them feel secure. A hide where three sides of the snakes body is touching a surface feels very safe. Especially in a new outdoor enclosure. Likewise a rock they could squeeze under would give the same feeling of security.
> People have used electiric blankets before. After all its basically a heat cord. I know if at least one person who places click clacks on electric blanket cords he gets from salvo shops.
> Heat mats won't heat a 3 meter python. You really need a lage heated tile using a heat cord or a globe/Che in a vivarium. Providing outdoor heating is not very practical.
> At present I kind of feel sorry for the snakes you have. It sounds like you are struggling to grasp some of the basic husbandry skills to allow a snake in captivity to thermo regulate its body temperature.


Electric blankets are about 75-100 watts for a single and cost about $30, a 6m heat cord will be around 50 watts and cost about the same plus a couple of tiles at about 30c each. The initial costs are about the same but it would be cheaper to run the heat cord and the heat cord with tiles will almost never catch on fire but electric blankets have the blanket part to catch fire and do quite regularly especially if they are in an outdoor environment. Hopefully this will get the idea of using electric blankets out of peoples heads and may also help the poster.


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## Trimeresurus (Apr 19, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Heat mats won't heat a 3 meter python. You really need a lage heated tile using a heat cord or a globe/Che in a vivarium. Providing outdoor heating is not very practical.



I agree with you on the rest of your points, but do you mean heat mats won't heat a 3m python in an outdoor enclosure or just in general?

I have a 9ft, very chunky bredli and she goes just fine with a 28x43cm heatmat under her tank.


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## Snowman (Apr 19, 2013)

Trimeresurus said:


> I agree with you on the rest of your points, but do you mean heat mats won't heat a 3m python in an outdoor enclosure or just in general?
> 
> I have a 9ft, very chunky bredli and she goes just fine with a 28x43cm heatmat under her tank.



Open outdoors. Sounds like she wanted to combine a few and make a hot plate. 
I basically meant combining was a bad idea. One with a decent tile or something to spread the heat should be fine. A 80w cord would be just as easy to set up under a large tile and no worrying about the mat burning (like some brands do without air circulation). To heat outside I'd try and heat a hide box.... And make sure it is electrically safe from rain and other water. Probably want to earth the aviary too if its got 240v anywhere inside it.


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## Trimeresurus (Apr 20, 2013)

Snowman said:


> Open outdoors. Sounds like she wanted to combine a few and make a hot plate.
> I basically meant combining was a bad idea. One with a decent tile or something to spread the heat should be fine. A 80w cord would be just as easy to set up under a large tile and no worrying about the mat burning (like some brands do without air circulation). To heat outside I'd try and heat a hide box.... And make sure it is electrically safe from rain and other water. Probably want to earth the aviary too if its got 240v anywhere inside it.



Yep, thought so - was just making sure, I agree a single heatmat wouldn't work too well outside for such a big snake.


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## JrFear (Apr 20, 2013)

I've kept and still keep bredli pairs and MD pairs housed together! 
MDs in one tank bredli in the other! They do have separate enclosures but I like to think they enjoy the company!

ive also have had snakes eat each other!

your call!!!


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## Darlyn (Apr 20, 2013)

JrFear said:


> I've kept and still keep bredli pairs and MD pairs housed together!
> MDs in one tank bredli in the other! They do have separate enclosures but I like to think they enjoy the company!
> 
> ive also have had snakes eat each other!
> ...


Well I guess if they eat each other that is the ultimate "enjoying the company"


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## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

Darlyn said:


> Well I guess if they eat each other that is the ultimate "enjoying the company"


I would call that "dinner and a date" or is that the other way around?


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## montysrainbow (Apr 20, 2013)

I had my coastal outdoors 0ver summer however I got him back in 4 winter 4 the heat reason. I didn't want to risk him becoming anti social while brumation occurred lol and I didn't want to risk using electricity with the rain etc. I did have a solar panel idea lol but in the end it wasn't 4 me. Speaking of eating each other lol isn't that what prey mantas do when they mate the female eats /kills the male when its all done :shock:


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## Starter (Apr 20, 2013)

Starter said:


> OK, that was just an estimate and perhaps a bit over the top, but I haven't had the chance yet to measure them completely stretched out. They are definitely longer than 2 metres each, and the girls about 30% larger than the males and much fatter in the middle.



Yesterday I had the chance to measure and weigh my snakes - the biggest girl (a Bredli python) is 2.7 metres long and weighs 8 kg.


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## Starter (Apr 20, 2013)

Just for general information, regarding the outdoor enclosure - last night, I took my two girls indoors, as the weather report predicted a temperature drop to 3 degrees C, and will leave them here most of the time. I have a large vacant ferret cage with two compartments, each about 1.5mx1.0mx1.0m, and I put a heater next to it and the snake girls have been happy here over night. Today I'll add a cord for UV lights. I've put plastic boxes filled with Aspen snake bedding into the enclosures, but they also have a second raised platform each to lie on. I guess, also for brumating the spot is good: it is in a very quiet corner in my study. The outdoor cage will be rather their playground on warmer days, so they can get some natural sun, too, but it is definitely too cold outdoors now. And the best thing is: Now, all snakes are separated from each other. Thank you very much for all your good advice!


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## stimigex (Apr 20, 2013)

How about you forget the UV lights for a start they dont provide heat, They are not needed! Next step would be to set up proper heating , wether it be in the form of heat cords, lights, etc with a good quality thermostat to make sure the heat levels are right.

Next step would be to forget trying to breed these critters untill you have a much better and clear understanding of the pythons needs.
The females need to be conditioned before breeding as the process is taxing on thier bodies. The brumation procees if not done correctly can and will result in causing health problems for the snakes. etc etc etc......


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## traceylee (Apr 20, 2013)

Starter said:


> Hi mates, I wish to express a HUGE THANK YOU to you right here. You have taught me so much in this one, single thread!
> 
> I have followed your advice and have put both males away from the cattery cage into separate enclosures. However, I gave them the enclosures which formerly belonged to the females, because I think that the water tanks in which the boys were before (is that what some of you call "tubs"?) were/are absolutely inappropriate for such large snakes. In the enclosures which I bought with the females, the boys now have 3 levels to change from cool (with a water bowl) to medium (with a blanket to hide under) to warm (with a heat lamp and a UV lamp), so I'd say this is sufficient to start with. Further, I think that the smell of the respective female who lived in there before (and the carpet floorings haven't been washed since) may give the boys the right dreams for their winter sleep ...
> !



Are you cleaning these enclosures out between all this too-ing and fro-ing?
I'm guessing that there has been no quarantining done at all?


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## andynic07 (Apr 20, 2013)

traceylee said:


> Are you cleaning these enclosures out between all this too-ing and fro-ing?
> I'm guessing that there has been no quarantining done at all?


Not sure it would make any difference if they have all been together at one stage or another.


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## champagne (Apr 20, 2013)

montysrainbow said:


> I had my coastal outdoors 0ver summer however I got him back in 4 winter 4 the heat reason. I didn't want to risk him becoming anti social while brumation occurred lol and I didn't want to risk using electricity with the rain etc. I did have a solar panel idea lol but in the end it wasn't 4 me. Speaking of eating each other lol isn't that what prey mantas do when they mate the female eats /kills the male when its all done :shock:


coastal's occur in your area and can be kept outside if the you know what you are doing....


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## montysrainbow (Apr 20, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> coastal's occur in your area and can be kept outside if the you know what you are doing....



yeah I know. I wasn't too sure hence the reason I didn't leave him out there


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## andynic07 (Apr 27, 2013)

I found this on the net and thought it was funny


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