# A bit sad !!!!



## solar 17 (Nov 12, 2010)

We went through the lists [members] last night and found 32 but its probably a lot more than that. Experienced herpers who haven't been on this site for a fair while and the general consensus of opinion is this is a "herp" forum/site which is great but in recent months it appears to be dominated by dog / cat / fish and other animal threads/posts while a lot of people might think this is good this site "appears" to have lost a lot of very experienced herpers which l believe is/was the basis of this site and which is obvious in some of the answers/replies in the help section.....solar 17 [Baden]


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## Norm (Nov 12, 2010)

I have to agree. I havn`t found the discussion as interesting as when I joined last year. Maybe its because I know a bit more now and am looking for a higher level of discussion than basic care info. Maybe people get scared off from asking questions for fear of being ridiculed. Maybe with the hatching season coming up it will pick up.

Still my favourite site though!


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## Kurto (Nov 12, 2010)

I really like APS and I'm on here pretty much everyday. So dont take this the wrong way (Mods I'm talking to you), Possibly the biggest python breeder out Europe was banned for having an opinion! What the! And I can think of at least 10 other members off the top of my head that would have a vast wealth of knowledge that are indefinitely suspended!


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## giggle (Nov 12, 2010)

I agree Norm... there is a lot of ridiculing going on  The second someone posts they get bagged for SOMETHING. Those that may be experienced keepers who are left are often times impatient and if they answer, they dont do so in a nice way.

Maybe reptile people are most likely to be under a heap of stress than others ^_^


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## giggle (Nov 12, 2010)

The most popular and successful forum (of any description) in the world has little to no moderation. But it also has a lot of porn posted ROFL


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## Norm (Nov 12, 2010)

I`m all for if you want to know something, ask. If everyone just searched through the old posts to find what they need there would be no forum. You see alot of " do a search and you`ll find heaps of posts about that...'. This does nothing to create discussion, all it does is make APS a big online encyclopedia of often old, outdated info and opinions.


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

the site can only be as good as the input from its members.. theres too much garbage in forums like "chit chat" that members keep posting up in my opinion.. 

If you guys want a better site with better discussions then do something about it.. like posting some decent herp related topics and LESS of the garbage and pointless dribble that gets regularly posted in forums like chit chat.. THINK before you post something and try to make it relevant, topical and informative (instead of just "lol" posts etc)


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## giggle (Nov 12, 2010)

But Im the biggest culprit for "lol" posts! 

You are right Norm... the new members want to have discussions that the old members are over already and don't mind saying so ^_^

I don't know how we can change any of that though... Im certainly not experienced enough myself to have any *good* input... I try to answer peoples questions when I think I can share something I have researched... but it doesn't replace the help of an actual experienced member. How can we encourage our experienced members to stop hating and start helping?


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 12, 2010)

I agree, Colin. "Be the change you want to see in the world" and all that. But, back to Baden's original post, that also goes for the more experienced herpers, also. Perhaps part of the reason there are so many rubbish threads is because the more experienced guys aren't STARTING many threads themselves about topics that younger or less experienced people know much information on. Therefore, the threads are mostly about basic care tips, or "lol" posts, or "name my snake", or "what python next?" threads.

That's not to say people or younger guys shouldn't think before they post, but I think the theory goes both ways.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 12, 2010)

giggle said:


> How can we encourage our experienced members to stop hating and start helping?



Exactly.


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

you cant blame them... the most respected herpers wouldnt use this site or very rarely... sorry but to many 'know it alls' & fighting going on... you try to be 'upfront' & you get flamed... you ask for help.. you get laughed at.. thats just the way it is.. im on here every day, yes, i like looking at pretty snakes.. but will stay out of the thread from now... you want to talk to me PM me... my 2 cents...


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## SamNabz (Nov 12, 2010)

I gotta agree, I used to be on this site a lot more than I am now.

There was always a fair few interesting reads a day. But lately as Colin mentioned it is all 'lol' and 'dribble' threads.

The odd funny/non-herp thread is alright here and there but now it seems there are 4 threads about nothing compared to 1 thread about something *slightly* herp related.

Seeing as it's hatchie season the site should have a lot more threads going. Should be over-flowing with breeding season stories, let downs, successes, failures and weird/wonderful hatchies people have produced.

Just my 2 cents


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2010)

It's a bit unrealistic to hope for every thread to contain ground breaking ideas and opinions. Especially when you consider that the majority of members probably couldn't even be classed as ametuer herpetologists. Most people on this forum, i think, are here to look at pictures of others snakes and dream of making millions from breeding.

But every now and then we do get an absolute doozey of a thread which does bring in new and ald members that could be considered world authorities on said topics. I remember a few years ago there were a couple threads on taipans and also the http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-discussion-42/rock-python-139166/ of june this year. Threads like that can have and are having a tangeable effect on herpetoculture and biodiversity. They're what i hang out for!


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## Waterrat (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> .. but will stay out of the thread from now... you want to talk to me PM me...


 

+1


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 12, 2010)

No, I don't think it's a matter of blame, Tony. Giggle said it fairly well - the older guys look at the topics that they don't want to talk about and the flaming, and switch off or log out, but it's probably only the higher-level discussion that they could help start and encourage that will lift the level of discussion!


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm a grumpy old man, lucky not to have been warned, suspended or banned... But I'm tenacious as well, and I like to contribute what I know if it helps. I have been shocked by few things here, but I was truly gobsmacked by a very recent thread, and the support a member got from some others for shockingly unethical behaviour.

I generally think that the quality of the traffic on this site has improved hugely in the past 12 months, the mods do keep a good eye on things, but it's important to stop the fools in their tracks, before they get too entrenched.

Jamie.


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## Snake-Supplies (Nov 12, 2010)

I like it the way it is, 
I ask a question as I am new to the world of snakes and I get answers back.

In chit chat and so on, you can have a laugh with people who share a common interest...
If you don't like it, move on.

That's my view, don't yell at me for it.
I haven't seen many dog, cat or fish related stuff...


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## FAY (Nov 12, 2010)

Kurto said:


> I really like APS and I'm on here pretty much everyday. So dont take this the wrong way (Mods I'm talking to you), Possibly the biggest python breeder out Europe was banned for having an opinion! What the! And I can think of at least 10 other members off the top of my head that would have a vast wealth of knowledge that are indefinitely suspended!



I agree with Colin 1+
The biggest breeder in Europe totally abused us, that is why he got banned. Just because he is the 'biggest' in Europe does not give him the right to do that. Ummm bet he failed to tell you that?


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 12, 2010)

So called intelligent people should also be able to hold there tongues online ?
We all know site rules .
Play nice etc 
But some peoples egos deserve to get a kick in the butt occasionally.
I have had 2 warnings on here , the next time i loose it , ill be gone too .
Site rules are just that , you follow them or bye bye ??
And the windging threads are my favourite LOL
The prices are going up and down its not fair to my bank account . 
We all affected by price variation and no one has the right to manopolise a market like our hobby .
We can all buy and choose ? what we pay? and what we sell for ? .
Simple supply V demand .
Its a free country lol
my 2 cents
Roger


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## Wild~Touch (Nov 12, 2010)

Respect, Respect, Respect..... it's all about *respect and good manners* towards your fellow keepers. Experienced or otherwise.
Remember you are bound to meet up some day, so BE RESPECTFUL please
Cheers
Sandee 

By the way respect must be earned, it's NOT free


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

I dont mean to offend anyone.. and apologise for being blunt..

but threads like (no offence intended) "One Word Association" have gone over 346 pages of pointless meaningless posts..

maybe these sort of threads should be deleted and discouraged? whats your opinions on this?

Im all for the site getting back to a more "reptile orientated feel" but its up to you guys to stop posting up the rubbish on here.. 

Just because someone hasnt posted an interesting herp thread up isnt an excuse for someone to post dribble up is it? maybe members should go and read some of the older interesting threads on here or a herp book etc and then post up a thread asking some decent questions concerning some of these subjects? 

a newbie can still post up some great questions and start an informative thread if they take the time to read and research some subjects and then ask some questions..


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## SamNabz (Nov 12, 2010)

You got my vote...

Vote 1 for deleting pointless threads even though I've posted on them, usually cause there's not much else to do on here


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## Australis (Nov 12, 2010)

Jungle_Freak said:


> The prices are going up and down its not fair to my bank account lol



I totally agree on that point.


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> I dont mean to offend anyone.. and apologise for being blunt..
> 
> but threads like (no offence intended) "One Word Association" have gone over 346 pages of pointless meaningless posts..
> 
> ...


 
I agree with you about people starting more informative threads. I think the danger in discouraging all threads that aren't reptile-oriented is that people WITHOUT a desire to research a topic before posting a thread about it will fall away from the site, and that the traffic will decrease considerably. I've been on plenty of forums where there simply isn't enough traffic or threads been posted per day that it is worth continuing to visit them.


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> I dont mean to offend anyone.. and apologise for being blunt..
> 
> but threads like (no offence intended) "One Word Association" have gone over 346 pages of pointless meaningless posts..
> 
> ...


 
I absolutely agree with this.

I don't even think the Chit Chat section should be here TBH - 90% of it is absolute garbage ("One Word Association" being a perfect example), and racist jokes are popping up more often too, which makes us look like a bunch of uneducated idiots. Also, too many people arguing about issues they have no idea about. We have the Chat Room and PM for stuff like that.

I think the reason so many choose not to start informative threads is because most of the replies are rubbish - it appears people don't want to research and learn. Too many users are just here to talk crap and it should be done elsewhere. It's mainly garbage threads or basic husbandry that's discussed here.

It's a shame - so many knowledgeable people on here too, but I can understand why so many stay quiet. I would hate to see what an outsider would think of us all after browsing this forum...and people think "harsh" replies are the only problem here


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## Kurto (Nov 12, 2010)

FAY said:


> I agree with Colin 1+
> The biggest breeder in Europe totally abused us, that is why he got banned. Just because he is the 'biggest' in Europe does not give him the right to do that. Ummm bet he failed to tell you that?


 
Fay I realise there was probably more too it, but it's a shame to have someone at the forefront of herptocultrue banned for petty arguments.


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2010)

Col we've both been here long enough to know that even the idea behind this thread is a repeating theme. I haven't noticed one for a while but the requests to delete the 'chit chat' forum has been made several times in the past and the main defender to keep it has been Slateman. 

I tend to agree with him and the argument that makes to keep it, which is that this is a very social forum. Alot of members have become friends and i'm pretty sure we even have APS babies. 

But i do agree with you. We would have much better herp related chats if people were more inclined to buy AND read books.



Colin said:


> I dont mean to offend anyone.. and apologise for being blunt..
> 
> but threads like (no offence intended) "One Word Association" have gone over 346 pages of pointless meaningless posts..
> 
> ...


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> you cant blame them... the most respected herpers wouldnt use this site or very rarely... sorry but to many 'know it alls' & fighting going on... you try to be 'upfront' & you get flamed... you ask for help.. you get laughed at.. thats just the way it is.. im on here every day, yes, i like looking at pretty snakes.. but will stay out of the thread from now... you want to talk to me PM me... my 2 cents...



tony I can understand you being very upset over the loss of your eggbound female jungle.

Instead of staying off the forum why dont you start a thread and discuss this issue and what happened in answer to the people on here who questioned your dealing with the incident? Im sure we can all learn something from this sad situation and Im sure it would be of immense benefit to others..


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 12, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I have been shocked by few things here, but I was truly gobsmacked by a very recent thread, and the support a member got from some others for shockingly unethical behaviour.



...because too many people are on here to make new internet-friends.


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## MDSTIM (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi all,

I still consider myself really new to this forum, you can probably see by the number of threads I've started and posts that I've made...but I'll throw in my $2 worth, (inflationary change).

I jump on this forum to glean useful information and learn, (as well as researching books etc), BUT I too get frustrated by petty threads and posts that are just "LOL" or "+1" or "naming snakes" or "which snake to buy next" or "which snake is better" which don't add anything to the thread, (only adding to peoples "post count").....maybe starting up some new subheadings in the forum to capture these threads separately might help, (for those that still want to post things like these items).

I also get very dissappointed at some of the rude and arrogant replies that some people feel the need to send....mainly based on their ego and the need wield some power. They also selectively pick on people because they see they are new, or different, or not posted much, or are young, or are the wrong gender....I think you get my drift.

On the "veterans corner" section of the forum....I keep looking there for these new and informative threads that come from our "more experienced herpers" and am left wondering where they are and whats changed in the herp world that is astounding and interesting. I thought this was the perfect spot for people to post this material and not be interrupted by "others" and get good debates happening.

On a good side I would like to thank those who persevere AND I have seen some very good, positive and useful replies coming from quite a few users of the forum....THANKS....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE....PAT YOURSELVES GENEROUSLY ON THE BACK.

Looking forward to being flamed for an opinion....but I'm big enough and ugly enough to take it.

Good point above Sandee...about respect. I thing Jungle_Freak nails about 10 good points, the relating to "prices" is classic and shows where people are at and it's always nice to think we may make millions, but the reality is we are in it mostly cause we love snakes, (sorry reptiles).

Cheers
Ron


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I agree with you about people starting more informative threads. I think the danger in discouraging all threads that aren't reptile-oriented is that people WITHOUT a desire to research a topic before posting a thread about it will fall away from the site, and that the traffic will decrease considerably. I've been on plenty of forums where there simply isn't enough traffic or threads been posted per day that it is worth continuing to visit them.



Im not suggesting to discard all non herp related threads, some of them can be really interesting.. Im taking about the garbage threads that are pointless dribble.. 

If people that are too lazy to reseach about the herps they keep or want to keep then in my opinion it shows their lack of interest in the hobby and general laziness.. this would probably be the same attitude they have caring and looking after their animals.. and if thats the case... good ridance from the hobby is all I can really say.. sorry for being blunt.. 

I have all the time in the world for serious and enthisuaistic new keepers.. and have tried my best to encourage and help them if and when I can.. 

But if were "in danger of losing" all the people that are too lazy to research things, too lazy too ask decent questions or for help and just want to post rubbish on here.. then I wont be shedding any tears to see them leave..


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## Kristy_07 (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> If people that are too lazy to reseach about the herps they keep or want to keep then in my opinion it shows their lack of interest in the hobby and general laziness.. this would probably be the same attitude they have caring and looking after their animals.. and if thats the case... good ridance from the hobby is all I can really say.. sorry for being blunt..



I certainly agree with you on this point, but I'm (as in, me, JMO) probably not convinced that scrapping ALL social threads would achieve what you are hoping it will achieve in raising the calibre of the discussion.

I, for one, wouldn't have much to contribute on daily basis if you take out the social aspect of the site. I don't have any husbandry issues, health issues, I can deal with my feeding issues on my own, I don't have any ground-breaking research to offer, and I don't have any fantastic breeding projects happening at the moment. I would be able to answer people's basic husbandry questions, even if it means looking it up in my books as opposed to them doing it themselves. But, other than that, I would be waiting for stories, pics, discussions, successes and failures from more experienced herpers, who, for the most part, are on the quiet side... 

What one person considers a "rubbish thread" might not be to others... You suggested that Tony open a new thread discussing what happened with his jungle and to address the people that criticised his actions - but couldn't he have done that from the original thread, which was shut down? Not meaning to be critical of the fact that it was shut down. But, from someone who is only beginning to dip their toes in the shallow end of the "breeding reptiles" pool, I was finding that thread enormously informative, and a perfect example of how things can go wrong, despite your best efforts and others' good advice...


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2010)

The majority of the time the newbies dont want to hear the advice from experienced keepers, they seem to know everything already anyway regardless of weather or not they just asked a question about it.

I also see that breeding something throws you strait up into professional status, and alot of people think the advice from the guy they just bought a spotted python off that bred them for the first time that season is as good as the advice from someone that has been keeping and breeding reptiles for over 15 years

the difference between asking all your questions on a forum from the safety of behind a computer screen and reading a book is you cant argue with a book if you dont like what you hear! 

I think lately the experienced members of our hobby dont see the value in sharing their information they have developed over years of hard work in the hot seat to a bunch of people that are only going to argue with comments like "Iv done my research I know what im talking about" when they dont get the answer they were looking for! 
Iv been keeping reptiles (of all sorts) since before the amnesty and I still ask questions 

I think it will take alot more than just deleting the chit chat section to bring the old boys back!


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

Farma said:


> Ive been keeping reptiles (of all sorts) since before the amnesty and I still ask questions
> 
> I think it will take alot more than just deleting the chit chat section to bring the old boys back!


 
me too josh.. Im always learning new stuff all the time.. 
If you have been keeping since before the amnesty mate, you ARE one of the old boys  
so it would be great to see some more threads from you please josh.. thanks mate


PS.. I dont know about you lot.. but Im finding this thread interesting  cheers


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## buck (Nov 12, 2010)

I've been here for a while and have seen many come and go and Baden is right, there are quite a few experienced guys who no longer post on the forum. For mine it seems to relate to the amount of flack that more experienced keepers get on here for giving advice. Most people will freely offer advice if asked but most get sick of arguing with people who 6 months earlier were asking which snake they should get as their first snake. Not trying to make that sound elitist but that is the fact. 
Many on here seem to judge experience by the post count - more fool them I guess. 

I think the other reason why some no longer post or frequent the site is that at times the forum seems to be over moderated. Infractions for voicing an opinion about things that really should be in the open. I have witnessed threads that have been started in relation to a sponsor(one in particular who was ripping people off with enclosures) that were heavily moderated and any post naming the sponsor was removed and infractions issued. All this does is lead to this person being able to continue to rip off more unsuspecting people. Yeah ok sponsors help pay the bills but at times I think the $$ are seen as being more important than the reputation of the site.

generally though I have to say that the site has improved a little from where it was a couple of yeas ago. The whole desperate and dateless phase was shocking!!!!!

Mick


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## pythons73 (Nov 12, 2010)

I no a few people that have keeped-breed reptiles for 30+years,even these people still say they learn new tricks of the trade (so to speak).IMO theres just too much useless threads that go on-on-on 5pages later,without any useful answers...BUT there is some they are GREAT,with useful information...Ive meet some really AWESOME people that use this site (others) and have learnt so much over the years...For the more experienced herpers the majority of the time they look at the site,without posting anything...or if they do its great advice...The site is ALOT BETTER then a few years ago thats for sure....


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## Snakeluvver2 (Nov 12, 2010)

I've joined this forum just this year, it has been amazing help in all facets of my herp knowledge but there is a lot of rubbish out there. I mostly learn new facts from old threads many two or three years old. I'm not sure if it's because the state of discussion has gotten worse recently. There has been some threads that really opened my eyes such as the rock python thread which has been mentioned already. So while there is a lot of crap in here and I have contributed to them still think there is great information and discussion going around. So that's why I'm here checking threads most days.

That being said a lot people need to think about their post, the amount of aggression and rudeness is staggering. That's my primary issue really. I bought some herps off one of those people who have been collecting for many years and have a bounty of information. His direct words are I don't post much anymore because I don't like it when some 15 year old brat starts telling me how to do things.


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## Tristan (Nov 12, 2010)

a few suggestions i can think of would be things such as, 

the ability to Edit your post (saves double posting etc)
make the minimum post count 10 char (reduces the ability to just reply with +1)

If a post is deleted leave the post box delete the content and add a comment to state why the post was deleted, if i make a post and its deleted with no comment i wont learn (or even know) what i did wrong and if i don't know i cant ensure i don't do it again.

don't delete threads close them with a comment stating why it was closed again so people learn why.

this community is not large enough to permanently suspend users for minor infractions, 

users need to remember to take every thing on a forum with a pinch of salt.
challenge arguments NOT people.

provide some factual evidence to back up your argument link to a gov website or a vet paper what ever.

SEARCH before posting and on that perhaps make the search easier for new people to find i dunno perhaps you could title the search bar with SEARCH so its a little more obvious  

respect the other people even if you don't respect their methods.

chit chat stuff is necessary to help keep a forum active with traffic and users, but limit the game threads to a few pages, then delete and recreate if its popular.if the forums is filled with only technical data that will only appeal to a minority group you will loose people.

make a few sticky threads with titles that cover the most common questions (what should i feed my dragon) (is my animal gravid) (how often do i feed) (what temps do keep blah)

this wont stop people making those threads any way BUT you can simply hyperlink the sticky in a reply and close that new thread (with a reason why it was closed)

just a few ideas ill think of more im sure


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

i asked fay to delete my jungle thread for the reason that i was being called an animal abuser...by a certain person, i would of continued the thread but couldnt tell the whole story because of others involved & it wasnt fair to 'tar' them with the same 'brush' as i was being 'tarred' with... this is the first reptile that has ever died in my care... thanks for the PM's from the experienced herpers that helped... tony


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks to those who PMd me too.

Col, I agree that this is an interesting thread indeed. I think it's easy to nip a few of the 'what's your favourite hybrid combination?' and 'Can I keep my Coastal with my Lacie?' threads in the bud (god knows I try!). One of the problems (for me!) is that there are many here who believe that all questions are deserving of a considered answer, I'm not one of those... I do certainly believe there are some very stupid questions.

There is a fundamental problem with the licensing systems in most states, in that people can acquire reptiles without a jot of knowledge, and basically do with them whatever they want. Sites like this are hopefully more helpful than problematic, but they can present a few problems with regard to the information members provide, and the way in which it is used by those with not much knowledge. This is where the experienced herpers can step in and try to ensure that the info is accurate and timely, and also interpreted correctly.

It's no secret that I have strong views on many things, and I'm not shy about expressing my views where the wellbeing of animals is concerned. All of us with experience MUST do what we can to ensure that animnals are treated ethically at all times. The future of our hobby depends on it.

I haven't really noticed that there has been any increase in 'other animal' threads, but maybe it's because I don't really bother to look at them. I contribute to a few of them - a current one where a member has a dog with a life-threatening health issue is one - but I'm a dog person...

Chit chat - meh - never go there, never will... it's not what I'm on APS for...

Jamie.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 12, 2010)

I can see knowledgeable people being turned of when they answer a question with accurate information only for 5 newbies to give BS answer straight after, then offcourse the OP thinks the masses must be right.....


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## ShaunMorelia (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> but threads like (no offence intended) "One Word Association" have gone over 346 pages of pointless meaningless posts..



Thanks Colin.....hahahah
Surely thats a record length thread tho hahah


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## longirostris (Nov 12, 2010)

If I can be blunt most of the posts in any forum on any website are crap or time wasting. But as Waruikazi rightly points out every now and then a post that at first glance appears ridiculous may end up becoming a thread of really interesting and thought provoking ideas. See the post Waruikazi refers to earlier on Oenpelli pythons started earlier this year. This post was allowed to run its course even though at times it wondered off track and had the potential to become very opinionated and divisive and possibly denigrate into abusiveness. It didn't. Instead it beame one of the best threads I have seen in the several years I have been watching this website.

Well done to Solar 17 who has inadvertantly started another thread with the potential to be as good or better then the Oenpelli Python thread. For most of us who consider ourselves experienced keepers there is usually a common thread regardless of our many stations in life and differences. We are generally all time poor. This means that most of us who suffer with this problem would generally not even take the time to look at these forums let alone participate in them. I trawl these websites fairly regularly however, because I am constantly on the look out for new species of Dragon lizards to add to my collection. I must admit that I rarely come across anything but every now and then something like this pops up. 

A criticism if I may regarding the operators and moderators of this site. There appears to be some unnecessary censorship taking place at times that may be the cause of some of the reluctance of the more experienced of us among the herp community to actually make any comments about anything online via these types of websites.

I notice with some interest that another thread referred to in this one was stopped dead in its tracks before AM Pythons had the right of reply to some interesting allegations and judgements about his character which I believe could have been handled better by the moderators. I don't personally know either of the protagonists, so I have no vested interest either way. However, you should have either let the thread flow or delete the offending post and then stop the thread. Normally I would not even open this type of thread and indeed I didn't until I was alerted to it by this one. What I find disappointing is that the thread was actually quite interesting for its content about the way AM Pythons tried to handle his situation with his egg bound python. Whilst I am not particularly against people making the comments about the animal being taken to a vet, I am very much against the ridiculous comments made by one thread poster which are entirely opinionated and added little value to the discussion and even more alarmed at the fact that the post has been allowed to stand and the right for AM Pythons to defend himself has been taken away from him (although apparently reinstated in this one). 

How many times do I see the comment "take it to the vet" when someone asks a simple question about why an animal has such and such a condition. I actually don't have a problem with these types of questions because I see these types of questions as what this forum should be all about. What I do have a problem with is people imposing their values and beliefs onto somebody else. I have animals die on a fairly regular basis. Certainly 1 or 2 every month sometimes more. Thats what happens when you maintain a large collection of shortlived animals, they eventually die. Do I take my animals to a vet? Only once in the last 10 years. Why? Because it becomes a matter of personal judgement, expediancy and economics. Let the naysayers rain fire and brimstone down upon the head of longirostris for his blasphemy. Even then the diagnoses provided by the so called expert reptile/dragon vet was wrong and in spite of Xrays taken the animals affliction was not identified. 

After 35 years as a keeper and with a collection numbering hundreds of individuals I am constantly looking for new information that will allow me to improve my husbandry. To do this I research the problem or the issue I may have and build up a set of information which I will then evaluate and if necessary make a decision about a course of action. If most people at least followed some of this path then the commentary in the posts in these threads would be of a much higher standard. Several people have already said it, "do some research first". 

I have a very interesting topic that I have been researching for some time that I could bring to this forum in a new thread that I would love to get some experienced keepers comments on but to be perfectly honest I am very reluctant not only because of the censorship issue, (which I very much doubt would be a problem with my item unless it degenerated in some way into a slanging match), and/or fielding the ridiculous comments and statements made by ill informed people who have opinions about everything but very often know very little about what they have an opinion of.

Final comment if I may and please don't flame me for stating the obvious, again, which has already been said in other posts. "Veterans Corner", I don't think so. With great respect, 2 years as a member of this forum does not qualify that person as someone that can be relied upon to espouse vast amounts of facts or pearls of wisdom regarding the hobby of Herpetoculture or any facet thereof. To be perfectly honest I am not sure what does. Is it years of keeping and experience? Is it the number of times you have published something, Is it the number of peers you have as friends? Is it the number of animals you have in your collection and how many times you have bred them? Who knows?

The question is subjective in my view and therefor no right or wrong answer. I believe everyone can bring something of value to a discussion so long as it is informed, truthful and does not demean or belittle another person. The critical element in all of this discussion is censorship. The less of it the better, although I acknowledge and agree that some is absolutely vital, ie porn related content etc. The site is the most frequented of all the herp sites in Australia, it is a good site. Yes, there is a large amount of rubbish and people who are clogging up the site with said rubbish, but in the end it is most likely the censorship of these people that will drive your target market (experienced herpers making contributions) away.


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

The_S_Word said:


> Thanks Colin.....hahahah
> Surely thats a record length thread tho hahah


 
sorry mate  no offence intended


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## Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2010)

I have been viewing this site for over 5 years now (You can pretty much do the same as a guest as you can as a member ,except post).

One of the biggest problems I see with the forum is the fact that some members seem untouchable no matter what they do while other newer members would receive an infraction/suspension/banning. It is usually the same few members who turn threads in to a joke or can't seem to help themselves but say something "witty" to a serious question or thread. 

There are many instances of "Double standards" here, I went in to the chat room last night when I first registered and was shocked to see what/how members were talking. There was even a moderator in there getting in with the conversation with the same vulgarity. I understand that the members in there probably knew each other well and that it was quite late (10.30pm) but you can't advertise the forum as "child/family friendly" when such things are going on in a section that is accessible by all members no matter what age they are.
It would probably be a good thing to lead by example, I can only imagine what would happen to a regular member if they posted the same kind of stuff in a thread that the moderator was saying....It doesn't really seem fair and and I am pretty sure the moderator broke site rules by doing so.
So if that isn't a double standards or "the rules only apply to most" I don't know what is.

All I see is newer members asking questions being spoken down to and treated like idiots because they asked a question which other keepers may know but the poster may not, How great it must feel knowing you came in to a hobby as a newbie knowing everything. I have a fair bit of knowledge when it comes to reptiles but I am not afraid to admit that I don't know everything...Seems like a lot of members on here are though.

Also if there were threads started which didn't replicate others the forum might have a total thread count of 1000.


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## The_Dreaded_Pets (Nov 12, 2010)

agreed baden when i joined over 1 yr ago i could make a post anytime day or night and get good informational help within no time these days i can post questions and not get a single reply not even a retarded 1 lol. whiloe im happy to do my own resurch (which i usually do anywyas) with so much doiversity in how things are done between people and countrys it can get very very confuseing for people like me who are beginners and makeing posts for confirmation on "am i doing this right " ect is very useful to beginers aswell as there confidence in what there doing.

there are still alot of great experienced herpers /breeders ect on this site that are active but everybody has a life outside the internet and with the lower amount of those people active it certainly shows in the responces given

just my opinion from what i have seen since joining it may not be correct or whatever but it is what i think.

also the price of alot of reptiles have gone down aswell as the "kool" factor so some of those people may have gotten out breeding and just keep a few pets meaning they dont really need to be on this site as often


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> i asked fay to delete my jungle thread for the reason that i was being called an animal abuser...by a certain person, i would of continued the thread but couldnt tell the whole story because of others involved & it wasnt fair to 'tar' them with the same 'brush' as i was being 'tarred' with... this is the first reptile that has ever died in my care... thanks for the PM's from the experienced herpers that helped... tony



it was a very sad situation with your jungle. why dont you start a thread to explain the incident, what happened and why you chose the actions you did etc? the reason I suggest it is so you have a chance to respond and describe what happened as it my help someone in a similar situation know what to do and what not to do.. you can post in this thread if you like.

longirostris -
thanks for the detailed post.. as Im at work will only comment breifly.. as far as censorship on this site goes.. Its a privately owned website and the rules are made by the site owner. moderators such as myself are just volunteers on here and we dont make any of the site rules. But being moderators we have been asked to try and uphold the site rules and try and keep the place friendly.. theres a huge turn over of threads and posts on here on a daily basis.. all we can do is our best. cheers


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## Troy K. (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm not saying that I'm one of the more experienced keepers and breeders but I have been doing it for a while and I am guilty of not starting any new threats in a while. I just put a new thread up in the General section that I find interesting and would love to see some of the other point of views on the matter of culling off weak reptiles from both the experienced and inexperienced keepers and breeders. 
Troy K


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## Brodie (Nov 12, 2010)

Why is everyone suspended?


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

Kalashnikov said:


> There are many instances of "Double standards" here, I went in to the chat room last night when I first registered and was shocked to see what/how members were talking. There was even a moderator in there getting in with the conversation with the same vulgarity. I understand that the members in there probably knew each other well and that it was quite late (10.30pm) but you can't advertise the forum as "child/family friendly" when such things are going on in a section that is accessible by all members no matter what age they are.
> It would probably be a good thing to lead by example, I can only imagine what would happen to a regular member if they posted the same kind of stuff in a thread that the moderator was saying....It doesn't really seem fair and and I am pretty sure the moderator broke site rules by doing so.
> So if that isn't a double standards or "the rules only apply to most" I don't know what is



Fay is in charge of chat and probably best to answer your question.. I dont have anything to do with chat.. but chat is moderated under some different guidelines that the normal forums on here.. the owner of the site sets the rules and is happy with the way the site is moderated.. 

If your unhappy here and by the way its run then your most welcome to go troll somewhere else for the next 5 years.. thanks for the feedback


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

Troy K. said:


> I'm not saying that I'm one of the more experienced keepers and breeders but I have been doing it for a while and I am guilty of not starting any new threats in a while. I just put a new thread up in the General section that I find interesting and would love to see some of the other point of views on the matter of culling off weak reptiles from both the experienced and inexperienced keepers and breeders.
> Troy K


 
Thanks troy.. much appreciated.. and grab that brother of yours too please mate and toss him in here with some pics and interesting stuff to post up.. cheers


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## Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> If your unhappy here and by the way its run then your most welcome to go troll somewhere else for the next 5 years.. thanks for the feedback



Sorry I just didn't expect to join a chatroom on a reptile forum and be subjected to talk around how a members sexual organs are going.


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## FAY (Nov 12, 2010)

Kalashnikov said:


> I have been viewing this site for over 5 years now (You can pretty much do the same as a guest as you can as a member ,except post).
> 
> One of the biggest problems I see with the forum is the fact that some members seem untouchable no matter what they do while other newer members would receive an infraction/suspension/banning. It is usually the same few members who turn threads in to a joke or can't seem to help themselves but say something "witty" to a serious question or thread.
> 
> ...




2010-11-11 21:55:21 [Login] Kalashnikov
2010-11-11 21:55:21 [IP] Kalashnikov: 210.84.39.78
2010-11-11 21:55:21 [Join Room] Kalashnikov -> Chat Lobby
2010-11-11 21:55:31 [Message] Nephrurus -> Chat Lobby: is this the scales and tails expo?
2010-11-11 21:55:43 [Message] ihaveherps -> Chat Lobby: yeah
2010-11-11 21:55:45 [Message] RoryBreaker -> Chat Lobby: yes
2010-11-11 21:55:49 [Message (Priv.)] Nephrurus -> ihaveherps: yes, I understand. I know all that. 
2010-11-11 21:56:12 [Message (Priv.)] Nephrurus -> ihaveherps: Hopefully things pick up for him
2010-11-11 21:56:18 [Message] Kalashnikov -> Chat Lobby: hey
2010-11-11 21:56:18 [Message (Priv.)] Nephrurus -> ihaveherps: you never know
2010-11-11 21:56:30 [Message (Priv.)] Nephrurus -> ihaveherps: the might hatch out some kind of mutation 
2010-11-11 21:56:39 [Message] ihaveherps -> Chat Lobby: there are a few people i want to catch up with.... but bosses father died last week, so i have to pick up the slack
2010-11-11 21:56:53 [Disconnect] Kalashnikov
2010-11-11 21:56:59 [Message] ihaveherps -> Chat Lobby: any other time I could have gone....
2010-11-11 21:57:17 [Message (Priv.)] ihaveherps -> Nephrurus: hope so...

This was said when you were in the chat room last night. Real vulgar? Please do not say things that are not true at that time.
Yes, we may get a little out of hand in the chatroom, it is NOT moderated like the forums.


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## Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2010)

Why don't you post a little bit more of what was said before that?


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## FAY (Nov 12, 2010)

I won't because there were a lot of private convos..oh I think I called Gex a d..head in fun...still real vulgar?


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## Kalashnikov (Nov 12, 2010)

Nice one.

I really couldn't care less but i don't think people want to read a discussion that is based around someones genitals....I could be wrong though


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## pythrulz (Nov 12, 2010)

I agree with all the above people often post non related reptile adds in the for sale section this is a great forrum site i hope it stays that way I have learned a great deal about caring for my snakes


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

Brodie_W said:


> Why is everyone suspended?



huh? for breaking the rules usually..


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## moosenoose (Nov 12, 2010)

I'm trying to post a little more...so it should get better :lol:


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> I'm trying to post a little more...so it should get better :lol:



luke.. I would really love to see you post some informative threads about vens and other reptiles you have experience with. your a knowledgeable bloke mate and it would be fantastic to see you share some of your knowledge.. thanks


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## Brodie (Nov 12, 2010)

Colin said:


> huh? for breaking the rules usually..


 
G;day Colin,

Not trying to have a dig mate, being genuine here. I first joined the site (under a different UN) in '03, when I stopped coming here in late '05, there were many experienced and professional herpers on this forum.. Looking through the member list, these people have been suspended? Obviously there are a lot of NEW pro's on here, but what about all the original guys? Did their accounts become inactive, or did they change usernames, or? Just seems like a huge proportion of members from that period are suspended? Did I miss some big riot, lol?

so what username did you used to be brodie? people usually get banned on here for breaking the rules..


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## nathancl (Nov 12, 2010)

welcome back brodie! most of the guys around back then are no longer here because of all the BS rarely see them around anymore. i re signed up a few years back after being banned not long after you left the scene.

simon archibald pops his head up every now and then.

you keeping any monitors these days?


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Nov 12, 2010)

Discussion on APS has gotten significantly less interesting since I joined.


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## cement (Nov 12, 2010)

Kill the chit chat thats what facebook is for.

It takes too long to trawl through the garbage to find something readworthy. So its too easy to miss the GOOD herp threads.

I detest reading about how someone mutilates their body,, or what tat should i get, or what video games are unreal.

I'd like to see AM Pythons put up his reasons for doing what he did.... now that would be good.


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## byron_moses (Nov 12, 2010)

yeah i havent been on here as much in the last few weeks as am sick of the bickering and the constant put downs of people who are new and asking questions. its amazing how many people were instant experts and never asked a question before


may also be the fact that as a power seller i can not get online because there are so many non members online clogging the server, this really annoys me


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 12, 2010)

byron_moses said:


> yeah i havent been on here as much in the last few weeks as am sick of the bickering and the constant put downs of people who are new and asking questions. its amazing how many people were instant experts and never asked a question before
> 
> 
> may also be the fact that as a power seller i can not get online because there are so many non members online clogging the server, this really annoys me


 Alot of those non-members are trolling the for sales looking to buy their first snake or whatever, I would prefer too many of them than none at all


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## byron_moses (Nov 12, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Alot of those non-members are trolling the for sales looking to buy their first snake or whatever, I would prefer too many of them than none at all


 yeah fair enough mate but i have been trying to get online for atleast 20min and is saying to busy


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 12, 2010)

byron_moses said:


> yeah fair enough mate but i have been trying to get online for atleast 20min and is saying to busy


 Today?
I have noticed it happening sometimes, and it can be frustrating, but its pretty rare


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## Sel (Nov 12, 2010)

I agree the chit chat section is full of alot of crap, but i think that every forum.. reptile, cars, birds, computers, whateverrr.. need a Miscelaneous section. 
If you dont want to read it, just dont read it... i also think, that if you scrap the chit chat section, then the main reptile sections will get flooded with the chit chat "crap"


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## waikare (Nov 12, 2010)

*hhahahhahahahaha*

to think a while back when i bagged out about people discussing other animals on here i got a infraction all because i said i thought this was a reptile forum mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm good to see some people agree.


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## Wookie (Nov 12, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Thanks to those who PMd me too.
> 
> Col, I agree that this is an interesting thread indeed. I think it's easy to nip a few of the 'what's your favourite hybrid combination?' and 'Can I keep my Coastal with my Lacie?' threads in the bud (god knows I try!). One of the problems (for me!) is that there are many here who believe that all questions are deserving of a considered answer, I'm not one of those... I do certainly believe there are some very stupid questions.


 
Yes, completely stupid questions, I agree whole heartedly. But **** I'm glad they asked before they did it


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

maybe i'll explain myself when i can be calm about it in a few days...


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## mungus (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> i asked fay to delete my jungle thread for the reason that i was being called an animal abuser...by a certain person, i would of continued the thread but couldnt tell the whole story because of others involved & it wasnt fair to 'tar' them with the same 'brush' as i was being 'tarred' with... this is the first reptile that has ever died in my care... thanks for the PM's from the experienced herpers that helped... tony



Tony,
I do agree that some of the photo's might have been a bit graffic, but you certainly opened peoples eye's to some of down sides to breeding etc.
I find people are quick to dump crap in other peoples backyard, but should clean theirs thoroughly first before they comment.
Again, sorry for your loss.
Aleks.


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## waikare (Nov 12, 2010)

and i agree newbies get treated like they are dumb, when i first joined 3 or so years back i got so much help from people about snake care, its like this site is stale, all everyone ever does on here is put poeple down on here because they are new, i think i even got slammed about the cross breeding and hello 3 yrs later everyone is trying to pass them off as rpm, lets just call them what the are, or atleast say which halve is which. Know dont get me wrong i do like this site and has help me heaps and if the mods look into my account history i am on here everyday, but most days there is just nothing good on here to read.


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## FAY (Nov 12, 2010)

cement said:


> Kill the chit chat thats what facebook is for.
> 
> It takes too long to trawl through the garbage to find something readworthy. So its too easy to miss the GOOD herp threads.
> 
> ...



Cement, why are you even going near the chit chat to read about tats or video games if you don't like those threads?


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

thank you Alek, i agree maybe the pics were a bit full on for some, but my first thought was if someone can learn from this, im doing the right thing... it was a nightmare for me mate.. i went with the advice of the most experienced herper i knew.. this was not my first eggbound snake, i dealt with a friends last year with great sucsess.. my desicion to try & save some off the eggs, may have been wrong but when you are faced with losing mother & eggs you have to make a decition one way or the other.. but being made feel like a total failer is not going to help... all ppl learnt from that is 'if i make a mistake.. i just want tell anyone' who learns from that? no-one that who...


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## giggle (Nov 12, 2010)

I just wanted to ad... I don't feel qualified to answer a lot of peoples questions... but I see them go completely unanswered or worse... someone will answer with something not only incorrect but sometimes dangerously incorrect. And occasionally the experienced keepers give an answer that is far too brief leaving much too much open for interpretation. Those that do complain about the drop in prices might want to consider that encouraging newbies into keeping may improve prices as demand could increase.

I agree some questions seem stupid to experienced keepers... but you have to understand that the general populace dont know and perhaps couldn't see the problem with housing two species together that would seemingly share the same habitat... or two animals of the same species. 
I dont think you should write them off or be aggravated by their question... it is good that they asked at all. Every body has to start somewhere... and some people have an interest but start off with even less knowledge than others. 

I think that also some people really do take debate to heart... or they begin to get aggressive or personal during debate. But debate is good, I certainly do find it interesting  

I am going to be getting my first snakes soon and I have ALOT to learn!!! I'm going to need to ask a lot of questions... and I am really hoping that I can get some good involved answers from experienced keepers and not have my lack of knowledge ridiculed. Also... I always do a thorough search of the internet and forum before posting a question... but ALWAYS get the same responses "do a search". Well not everything is covered, thats why I ask.


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## giggle (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> but being made feel like a total failer is not going to help... all ppl learnt from that is 'if i make a mistake.. i just want tell anyone' who learns from that? no-one that who...



There was a thread a little while ago about a member who was force feeding a hatchie and they accidentally pierced its neck... they were unable to take the animal to the vet so did a home stitch up job... they shared their story along with photos etc. Not only did I learn a lot from that thread... but I really respected the person for braving the embarrassment and possible ridicule to help others not make the same mistakes. If you do feel up to posting about it, I know I would respect you for it. At the same time, I completely understand the difficulty and would not think poorly of you at all for choosing not to. And I am sorry for your loss.


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## junglepython2 (Nov 12, 2010)

Most of the interesting threads seem to get closed as soon as some healthy debate starts. If everyone agreed it would be a very boring place.


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## cement (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> thank you Alek, i agree maybe the pics were a bit full on for some, but my first thought was if someone can learn from this, im doing the right thing... it was a nightmare for me mate.. i went with the advice of the most experienced herper i knew.. this was not my first eggbound snake, i dealt with a friends last year with great sucsess.. my desicion to try & save some off the eggs, may have been wrong but when you are faced with losing mother & eggs you have to make a decition one way or the other.. but being made feel like a total failer is not going to help... all ppl learnt from that is 'if i make a mistake.. i just want tell anyone' who learns from that? no-one that who...



Can you tell us what you have learnt from your experience?


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## cement (Nov 12, 2010)

FAY said:


> Cement, why are you even going near the chit chat to read about tats or video games if you don't like those threads?


 
Because i am lost , lonely and don't have a meaningful life.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> thank you Alek, i agree maybe the pics were a bit full on for some, but my first thought was if someone can learn from this, im doing the right thing... it was a nightmare for me mate.. i went with the advice of the most experienced herper i knew.. this was not my first eggbound snake, i dealt with a friends last year with great sucsess.. my desicion to try & save some off the eggs, may have been wrong but when you are faced with losing mother & eggs you have to make a decition one way or the other.. but being made feel like a total failer is not going to help... all ppl learnt from that is 'if i make a mistake.. i just want tell anyone' who learns from that? no-one that who...



The thing I find curious about your thread, AM Pythons, is that you have not explained why you didn't take the animal to the vet in the first place.

1. There is more than one reptile competent vet at Sugarloaf Animal Hospital, so they would have told you over the phone that the situation was not urgent, and made a time to suit.
2. Eggs recovered following Dystocia are never viable
3. The procedure for removal of eggs, either by massage or surgery, is a specialist process, not to be undertaken on a dirty laundry (?) floor by someone without experience.
4. At the first sign of difficulty, you should have stopped and sought professional help
5. The amount of blood and the gut of the animal hanging out following your 'procedure' defies your comment that 'not much force was used'.
6. At no time were you EVER justified to intervene in the manner you did
7. It is a bizarre notion that by posting those disgusting photos, you may actually be providing anything useful for fellow herpers.

I'll be blunt about this, because you PMd me and mentioned something about people in glass houses, and referred to a 'number of people' PMing you about my 'mite collection'. I doubt very much whether we know 'a number of people' in common... Regardless of your bleatings about caring for your animals, the fact is that your beautiful Jungle Python died because of your inept intervention, in a situation where you should have sought professional asistance. You intervened because you wanted to salvage the eggs, and as a consequence, the female died a horrible death, and the eggs you recovered will die as well. I can see from you comment that you offered her a rat after the procedure, and were surprised that she didn't eat it, because such reluctance was uncharacteristic for that animal... just what planet have you come from? Since when would a dying snake with its guts hanging out be interested in a rat?

You haven't explained why you didn't seek veterinary intervention at the outset, and you comments about taking the advice of others is simply blame-shifting. Please don't PM me again telling me about what other people have been telling you about me or my animals - like everybody who keeps livestock, I'm under pressure sometimes, but faced with a situation like yours, I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER take the course of action you did.

In fact, you weren't faced with losing the mother and the eggs - as I said somehere else, dystocia is rarely an urgent problem for snakes - you could easily have waited for however long it took to get professional help, days or even a week or two if need be. A vet could have told you that over the phone.

Jamie.


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

cement said:


> Can you tell us what you have learnt from your experience?



yer mate i can.... 'say nothing & that you have never had a problem with an animal in your life'... & why would i now Jamie? you dont deserve an explanation...


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## xxMelissaxx (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> yer mate i can.... 'say nothing & that you have never had a problem with an animal in your life'... & why would i now Jamie? you dont deserve an explanation...


 
I don't think Jamie is the only one that would like to hear your explanation...


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## AM Pythons (Nov 12, 2010)

edit..


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 12, 2010)

Edit


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## Greenmad (Nov 12, 2010)

its funny how a thread about the crap in this site turns to crap


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## Minka (Nov 12, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> yer mate i can.... 'say nothing & that you have never had a problem with an animal in your life'... & why would i now Jamie? you dont deserve an explanation...



Dismount from your exceptionally high horse. 

'Where you have live animals you have dead animals' i think the saying goes, every person who keeps livestock will suffer loses for various reasons. The way your jungle suffered at your hands can NEVER be justified though.


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## dpeica (Nov 12, 2010)

solar 17 said:


> We went through the lists [members] last night and found 32 but its probably a lot more than that. Experienced herpers who haven't been on this site for a fair while and the general consensus of opinion is this is a "herp" forum/site which is great but in recent months it appears to be dominated by dog / cat / fish and other animal threads/posts while a lot of people might think this is good this site "appears" to have lost a lot of very experienced herpers which l believe is/was the basis of this site and which is obvious in some of the answers/replies in the help section.....solar 17 [Baden]


 You went through the member list? Thats really sad.


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## Crystal..Discus (Nov 13, 2010)

I introduced someone who was willing to contribute to the site with a wealth of knowledge about "beginner" snakes and didn't have a bad bone in her body. There was a thread months ago about someone keeping a snake in less than favourable conditions, she got upset, posted, and was suspended despite someone posting something almost identical (but with more name calling.) She's made it clear what she thinks about some of the members and moderation on this site. 

We punish people for giving blunt truths that could save an animal's life, and encourage stupidity like "why is feeding cheese to my snake bad???" threads. We all went through phases of amateurish glee, and posted stupid things, but (the majority) grew up. I choose to stay away from herp chat now, simply because any input I give is mocked by other members, regardless of circumstance or authenticity.


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## SomeGuy (Nov 13, 2010)

People whinge that the forum is going downhill, that all the experienced people have left....

*BUT*, people have been saying that for years. Nothing has really changed, yes there is a LOT of rubbish threads, a lot of stupid people giving stupid advice but there is occasionally some very informative threads, some helpful people, some excellent keepers and herpers. 

It seems the same as it was 5 years ago, people usually look back and only remember the good stuff, if you do a search of old threads, you will find lots of rubbish too. People come, people go. There is always a lot of crap, but there is always good stuff mixed in, just ignore stuff if you don't like it.

I am a reader these days because a lot of people post stuff that makes me want to post a reply, but being a guest stops me having to waste my time looking like an idiot arguing over the internet over petty things or because someone said something moronic or because I am in a bad mood.

Peace ☮.


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## moosenoose (Nov 13, 2010)

I've said for a long long time now, that virtually every single topic has been covered at least 5 times over! Reptile keeping is not rocket-science, like some on here would like people to believe! Use the search feature and stop delisting the same old questions over and over and over again  :lol:

If it wasn't for the Chit Chat threads, the photo threads and the plenty of people on here who I've met and enjoyed the company of over the years I wouldn't bother being here! APS to me has always been a bit of slap, giggle and tickle... It's a social site for like-minded people IMHO, and in all honesty, what's wrong with it being simply that?


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## Colin (Nov 13, 2010)

thanks for all the input.. I personally feel that this thread should be now closed. some will agree other wont.. Im sorry but I feel a lot of things have been gotten off people's chests now and the best thing for the site would be to close it and move on.. 

rather than all of complain about the site, the threads, arguing all the time, putting people down etc etc.. can we all please try to get along? can we all try to make the site a better place for all of us to enjoy? we're all here because of our love and interest in reptiles.. lets get back on track and try and contribute something positive on here.. and try and leave the fighting and negative stuff behind us.. 

one last thing.. the moderators on here do our best.. we make mistakes the same as everyone. but its a damn hard job and we are up against a mountain of threads and posts every day.. it would really help if people tried to stick to the site rules so we have less decisions to make and less moderating to do.. I think that would suit us all.. 

thanks guys.. best regards


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