# newbie vegetarian



## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

hi 
i have decided that i want to become a lacto-ovo-vegetarian. that means i don't eat meat but still eat dairy products, eggs, milk that kind of stuff.
i just want to know if there are any other vegetarians out there  if so
can anyone give me some yummy recipes or advice !?
i love pretty much EVERY food you could think of. so any suggestions would be great
ive finally opened my eyes to what a disgusting business the meat trade is. not only do i find killing animals wrong, the meat trade also hurts our environment and powers 3rd world country slave trades.
i have wanted to be a vegetarian for ages and am not at the age where i can cook for myself so i am not dependant on eating mum's food not that i don't love it but i believe that animals are friends not food 
anyone with me?


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## Asharee133 (Sep 2, 2009)

um not at the age O_O your 17?! i cook for myself all the time, and the family


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## TahneeMaree (Sep 2, 2009)

Asharee133 said:


> um not at the age O_O your 17?! i cook for myself all the time, and the family


 

probably different circiumstances Asharee... I'm 20 and I'm not allowed to cook meals (mother if highly possesive of her kitchen)... I have never been taught and get taunted by my own parentals if they DO actually let me have a try at it...


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

Maybe you should research the dairy and egg trade, get outraged at what you read on dumb sites, and become a vegan instead? Being only a vegetarian is a bit of a cop out, really.


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## webcol (Sep 2, 2009)

I was for a while, my sister was for a long time. Remember to keep your health up. As for food, Tofu, fruit and vegies, Nuts etc


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## Asharee133 (Sep 2, 2009)

ah, sorry my mum loves me cooking because she doesn't have to do it


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

If you honestly like meat, then there is no reason that you cannot buy from butchers that source their meat from local farms. This way, no animal cruelty (at least, definitely not like what you've seen in factory farming) and you are helping to fund our farmers 

Never buy eggs or milk (preferably don't buy any kind of milk unless it is specifically organic) from supermarkets or petrol stations. These are also farmed (and I have to say that I think dairy farms are some of the worst factory farms out there- look them up).

If you do decide to go vegetarian, please go see your GP or something similar so that they may assess if this diet is right for you (you may not have enough iron, protein, etc., and so vegetarian diets which do not have as much of these vitamins/minerals may not be good for you). They can also give you tips on where to get the vitamins or minerals that you need to remain healthy (eg. which vegetables, etc.).

Good luck


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

i cook for myself alot but i mean now i have a lot more potential to cook the foods i WANT rather than just settle for mum's cooking. im really confused. i dont want to eat meat but humans are omnivours and we're meant to eat it. but i believe killing animals is wrong. im contemplating doing what my younger cousin does, she only eats chicken and occasionally fish. then maybe over time i can stop eating this all together. im concerned that while im a growing teenager eating no meat will have some affects on my development. dont comment unless you are trying to help or have CONSTRUCTIVE criticism . thank you


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

As I said, go your see doctor  He/she'll be able to tell you if a vegetarian diet is okay for _your_ body's needs. Everyone is different.


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## ihaveherps (Sep 2, 2009)

hahaha.... started being a cop out vego by still doing dairy and eggs..... now dairy, eggs, chicken and fish..... what a hard line activist you are... full credit for you half heartedness.... way to stand for half your convictions.... its just too bad you cant be half a hypocrite.


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

didnt you hear what i said when i said only reply if you're trying to help. and your comments are certainly not constructive criticism. it is no concern of mine wether or not you agree with it or not. sorry that i have a passion for animals and would rather eat as little of them as possible but while i am 17, still living at home and still growing, it is very hard to avoid eating meat, even if it is just chicken. and vegetarians do eat dairy products. it's vegans that don't. id appreciate it if you kept your unneccessary remarks to yourself


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## ravan (Sep 2, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> As I said, go your see doctor  He/she'll be able to tell you if a vegetarian diet is okay for _your_ body's needs. Everyone is different.



this is a good start, they'll be able to help you with what foods and stuff you need to focus on to keep your health up 
but as a vego, i find that you can still get all the sort of meaty products, but in a vego alternative...
you can get vego sausages, mince, burgers, bacon rashers, roasts and lots of other yummy things that are made from vegetable products and are high in iron and b12 
have a look in coles (i find that they have the best range) next time you go shopping 
and imo, peanut satay tofu is to die for! *drools*


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

thankyou ravan and notechistiger .  and i will take that into consideration ravan i completely forgot about vegetarian meat. im assuming you're a vegetarian? and as for the tofu.. you had me at peanut. haha


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## ravan (Sep 2, 2009)

fritzi2009 said:


> thankyou ravan and notechistiger .  and i will take that into consideration ravan i completely forgot about vegetarian meat. im assuming you're a vegetarian? and as for the tofu.. you had me at peanut. haha



indeed i am 
haha, i could eat peanut satay all day and all night, and still not get sick of it, its so damn good!


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

the only thing is that i would probably still be eating chicken a couple times a week. this is something i cannot avoid at the moment. to me this isnt a problem because at least i would not be eating any red meat and i dont eat much fish anyway. nor do i care what any other people on here have to say about that because at least i am cutting down my meat intake as much as i possibly can.


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## ravan (Sep 2, 2009)

you can also buy vege chicken fillets.... maybe you could get your mum to cook them for you if you really dont want to eat them. or try and convert the rest of your family lol


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

good idea. nahh my famnily wouldnt  my mum doesnt want me to stop eating meat alltogether she said she would feel much better if i at least ate chicken. such a mum thing to say.


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

fritzi2009 said:


> ...she only eats chicken and occasionally fish. then maybe over time i can stop eating this all together.


That honestly makes me see red.. What the hell makes a chicken or fish's life less valuable than a cow or sheep? Who are you to decide what animal deserves life more... Argh!



fritzi2009 said:


> ... i have a passion for animals


Except chicken and fish right? 



> but while i am 17, still living at home and still growing, it is very hard to avoid eating meat, even if it is just chicken.


Red meat is more important for a growing teenage girl. Much more important.

Yes, not eating meat mucks your body up - seeing as humans have spent millions of years evolving as omnivores. As notechistiger said, go see a doctor as they will ensure you become a vego properly for your body, unlike so many other teenage girls.

EDIT:


ravan said:


> ...you can get vego sausages, mince, burgers, bacon rashers, roasts and lots of other yummy things ...


I have never understood this either. If you're a vegetarian why do you want to eat things like sausages, bacon and roasts? Isn't the whole point of being a vego NOT to eat that stuff? Not to mention, how the hell can bacon be made out of anything but pig meat?!


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

Quote 1 - I do not think that chicken or fish are less valuable. But I eat less of these animals than red meat so if I cut down my red meat intake by 100%, I will be eating hardly any meat at all, given the fact I hardly eat white meat in the first place. I did not say their life is less valuable. Also while I am living at home I want to give my mother some peace of mind that I'm still eating meat. People are omnivours by the way. 
Quote 2 - What is that supposed to mean "unlike so many other teenage girls"?
And quote 3 - it's a meat subsitute, you can cook with it and have a meal that will fill you up. Instead of eating 3 almond nuts for dinner.
Ugh.


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

fritzi, PhilK was referring to how many teenage girls turn vegetarian because of something they've seen on tv or the internet (eg. factory farming videos), but have not researched proper vegetarian diets or been to see their doctor. Because of this, they often lack vital vitamins and minerals, and sometimes because deficient in certain things, such as iron. This can lead to all sorts of problems (including lack of energy, illness, etc)

At least you're starting to go about it the right way.


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sorry but i used to work in an abattoir and its far from cruel! The animals are humanly killed, they dont feel a thing! Trust me, if i thought it was cruel there is no way i would be able to work there! They are also extremely Clean, as i was a cleaner there b4 i started work on the kill floor, and you can not miss a single drop of blood, they have ohs workers come in and inspect your area and if you missed anything you have to go over it again! But thats just my opinion!!


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## anntay (Sep 2, 2009)

Asharee133 said:


> ah, sorry my mum loves me cooking because she doesn't have to do it


 thats me i let my 11 yr old cook and my 8 yr old help me makes my life easy and they are learning something as for being a veg my dad was for years so i had to be when around him i eat meat now but not much and as for killing animals some ppl have to kill the ones they call pests. i used to go shooting on weekends were a guy let us shot anything from rabbits to wild goats, roos never had dogs do it.look at what happens to the chooks were you are getting your eggs from what about fish you eating that??? google vegitarian recipes and see were that takes you. good luck with it


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

Jess, that may be true but in general I don't think killing animals is humane at all. But that's just my opinion!


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> fritzi, PhilK was referring to how many teenage girls turn vegetarian because of something they've seen on tv or the internet (eg. factory farming videos), but have not researched proper vegetarian diets or been to see their doctor. Because of this, they often lack vital vitamins and minerals, and sometimes because deficient in certain things, such as iron. This can lead to all sorts of problems (including lack of energy, illness, etc)
> 
> At least you're starting to go about it the right way.



Thank you for clearing that up. I have been researching vegetarian diets all day.


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

Jessica85, not all abattoirs are ethical or hygenic. And indeed, I can find no evidence that factory farming is a humane practice at all (which what, I suppose, the issue is here).


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

Ok, in saying that are you also going to put ur snakes on a veg diet? :lol:


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

apart from the fact of that being impossible...


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

Jessica95 said:


> Ok, in saying that are you also going to put ur snakes on a veg diet? :lol:



What on earth does that have to do with vegetarian diets for _people_? Please stick to the topic at hand.


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

I understand that not all are clean but most are! In saying that neither is anywhere else that produce food for consumption! Have you seen the conditions that hens live in that produce eggs for our consumption? I think that is far worse than a sheep getting a quick electric shock to the back of the neck or a cow getting a quick bolt on the head??


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

I only eat free range eggs in the first place. Anyway I don't see how ANY of this is ANYONE else's problem but my own so maybe all BACK OFF and the people with positive & helpful suggestions about ways to stay healthy etc, are more than welcome to post. Otherwise I would appreciate it if you didn't waste any of your superior time on my obviously unimportant and ridiculous threads  Thanks.


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

We visit farms, dairies, piggerie, abattoirs, beef farms etc etc all the time in the course of our uni degree... I was pleasantly suprised by each abattoir I have been to. I have found them to be excellent and much more humane than I envisioned.. Not for the squeamish, I'll admit, but no animal suffering there. 

The same goes for piggeries and dairies - they are strictly regulated and while from the outside people think they are cruel (usually people with NO idea by the way) they adhere to strict guidelines and are regulated very severely, especially these days. Keep in mind, too, that what is "cruel" in a human's eye doesn't often reflect the same with animals. Just because you wouldn't like to live the way they do, it doesn't mean they're unhappy. Scientific studies are done all the time on farming and you will be suprised at the results of how animals "feel" about many of the situations PETA etc think are crimes against nature.

Furthermore, not all meat you're not eating is raised in a "cruel" way.. much of Australian beef (and essentially ALL sheep) are raised on large extensive properties. The animals live free except for twice a year when people see them for shipping/management reasons... That is far from a cruel life. Remember that just because you love animals doesn't mean you can't eat them. I wouldn't be studying vet if I wasn't mad keen about animals, but I'd eat any animal there is (circumstances permitting).

I understand I cannot sway you back to the meat eating way of life, and I don't mind (more meat for me!) but it is important to know you cannot believe everything you see or read - especially 99% of the pro-vegetarian stuff on the internet. Do your own decision making!

Good luck anyway!

EDIT: free range chooks typically have WAY more health issues than caged chooks do, just for your information


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

I understand completely what you are trying to say but I would personally feel better, spiritually, as a person if I was to stop eating most o my meat intake. I also have no grudges against people that do eat met. It is a personal choice everyone makes in their life. Thanks.


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

Sorry about my spelling I just wrote a one thousand word biology report and my fingers cant take much more


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

I do agree with you, PhilK, I was just wondering if you knew how much of the meat we eat is imported from overseas?



fritzi2009 said:


> Sorry about my spelling I just wrote a one thousand word biology report and my fingers cant take much more



One thousand words is nothing


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> I do agree with you, PhilK, I was just wondering if you knew how much of the meat we eat is imported from overseas?


Not off the top of my head mate, but I could look up my meat science notes and see if they cover it there for you.. Just buy Australian beef and you'll be right, it's the best there is anyway!

I can't find anything on how much beef is imported here, sorry. Not even on Google - it mustn't be much haha. It is interesting though that Australia is the 9th biggest beef growing country in the world, but the second biggest beef exporting country, after Brazil, but I think we may have overtaken them now. 65% of Aussie beef is exported


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

I will have to totally agree with you on that Philk, most ppl don't have the slightest clue on what actually goes on in those industries, all they do is believe what they see, hear or read! So until you have been inside of these industries I really don't think you have the right to say its cruel when in actual fact you have no idea! 
But anyway good luck with it all!!


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

Australia does not Import red meat we export it!! We do however import Fish...


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> I do agree with you, PhilK, I was just wondering if you knew how much of the meat we eat is imported from overseas?
> 
> 
> 
> One thousand words is nothing



for grade 12 tafe it sucks


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## webcol (Sep 2, 2009)

1000? Wow thats easy. I got 3000 to do


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 2, 2009)

Okay let's not start arguing about essays =.= I'm ending this thread if you guys wanna keep fighting be my guests.


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## Kitah (Sep 2, 2009)

If I were to stop eating something in particular, it would probably be eggs and chicken, imo they are the worst of the animal industries, but I won't go into details. disease prevalence in caged chooks is far lower, but the way some of the staff handle them etc makes me mad. I know I'd rather be a steer wandering around a paddock for a long time, and then very humanely used for meat 

As others have mentioned it would be your safest option to go see a doctor; there are a lot of nutrients you get from meat that you'll have to ensure you get with your new diet, otherwise your body will go haywire. 

goodluck with it, but as has been said, don't trust what the media and websites say, I'm a vet student as well and have also seen the various industries in action


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## notechistiger (Sep 2, 2009)

Can I ask why the vet students were required to see abattoirs and farms in action?


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## tooninoz (Sep 2, 2009)

PhilK said:


> That honestly makes me see red.. What the hell makes a chicken or fish's life less valuable than a cow or sheep? Who are you to decide what animal deserves life more... Argh!
> 
> 
> Except chicken and fish right?
> ...



Phil, with all due respect, you are a young uni student (based on the loud announcement in your sig) that is studying vet science. You are not a GP. You aren't even a vet.
You are not qualified to make the statements you made.
Not eating meat doesnt "muck your body up", and there is no utterly compelling evidence that suggests same. It's the usual emotive rubbish perpetuated by the same dullards and swallowed by the same stupid people that began it.
The childish crap at the end kinda backs that up Phillip. You need to get the head out of the dogma/textbook and think for yourself mate!


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## whcasual79 (Sep 2, 2009)

i used to be vegetarian for 4 years ... then i sold out ha... try em vege sausages and bacon from sanitarium ... ave alot of tofu (mmmmmmake tofu) in ur stirfries and stuff and take vitamins too ....

indian and chinese food are the best for vegetarians ... lotsa varieties and they taste beautiful 

have fun


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## trippz (Sep 2, 2009)

ROFL im glad im not ur age any more. i did the whole dont eat red meat thing for 2 years when i was 13 because we breed beef cattle( i think i was just rebelling against my parents). now i love nothing more than a blue steak!!! try this cook book The Clean Eating Diet by Tosca Reno has some great recipies with for foods without meat.


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## moosenoose (Sep 2, 2009)

Show me a cow, and I will eat it!


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

:lol:


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

tooninoz said:


> You are not qualified to make the statements you made.
> Not eating meat doesnt "muck your body up", and there is no utterly compelling evidence that suggests same.


I don't need a degree to tell you that teenage girls need a lot of iron.. it's a pretty well known fact. The fact that almost every vego I know is anaemic (apart from those that take iron supplements) points, to me, to the fact that not eating meat (and not adjusting your diet obviousyl) leads to issues, and I've heard the same many times over. It makes perfect sense, and I don't have to be a doctor or a qualified vet to understand it.. There are nutrients present in meat, or present at levels in meat, that are not there in vegetables. Fact.

You'll be happy to know my comments aren't groundless - my brother is a human doctor and my cousin has a degree in nutrition and is always whinging about vego's. Always good to get a character assessment from a bloke on the net who knows nothing about me except my degree and pets, though. 

Notechistiger - it is part of our curriculum. We also need to spend time in abattoirs in 5th year on our rotations to learn about public health and safety etc. Vets are at the interface of animals and humans so are heavily involved in animal food production. The farm stuff is also required for "preclinical prac work"

Cheers


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## Kitah (Sep 2, 2009)

To be honest, so long as people go about it the right way I don't see a problem with being a vegetarian. So long as you consult with a qualified GP or nutritionalist, you should be right. Yes, meat has a lot of valuable nutrients in good levels for your body, but having said that certain veggies have these nutrients as well; with a bit of knowledge and by eating the right things you'll be right. And there is a huge range of supplements that can be used, but should ONLY be used as directed by a GP! (everyone seems to think you can't overdose in vitamins and minerals, but the fact is that you can, and all too easily; you can create more problems for yourself if you take supplements when they're not needed).


Fritzi, I hope you can get some valuable information and recipes in this thread, and I'll stop taking over now, just wanted to try and back up the veggos a bit


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## moosenoose (Sep 2, 2009)

PhilK said:


> I don't need a degree to tell you that teenage girls need a lot of iron.. it's a pretty well known fact. The fact that almost every vego I know is anaemic (apart from those that take iron supplements) points, to me, to the fact that not eating meat (and not adjusting your diet obviousyl) leads to issues, and I've heard the same many times over. It makes perfect sense, and I don't have to be a doctor or a qualified vet to understand it.. There are nutrients present in meat, or present at levels in meat, that are not there in vegetables. Fact.



Absolutely 100% correct!

Human beings, believe it or not, aren't designed to be a vegetarians. Your teeth are proof enough to this fact.

Admittedly, eating less red meat has been proven to be more benefitial (eg: less cases of bowel cancer etc), but to completely drop it form your diet......I dunno....you might as well dump eating chocolate hehe. It's more trouble than it's worth IMHO...but that is your choice, and good luck with it. I admire people sticking to their guns.

Quite frankly I think a balanced diet is hard enough to achieve without throwing a serious spin-ball into the mix. If you are deadset keen, I'd go and have a quick chat to a dietician or someone within that profession for advice - not here 

On a separate note, and a bit of a Clint Eastwood fan :lol:...he's a vego, and look how good he's turned out! 

Also: I'd go vegetarian for Tofu...how good is that stuff!!! :lol: :lol:


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## PhilK (Sep 2, 2009)

I never meant to imply it's BAD to be a vego, and I'm sorry if I did Fritzi. I was just trying to say make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, and backing up those who say make sure you do it properly, by going to a doctor/professional for the advice you need as everyone's body is different. Sorry for getting up on my high horse and sounding like a jerk!


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## TheDarkRose (Sep 2, 2009)

sorry to crash the thread but it makes me think of a simpsons quote
"im a level 5 vegan....i dont eat anything with a shadow"


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## tooninoz (Sep 2, 2009)

whcasual79 said:


> i used to be vegetarian for 4 years ... then i sold out ha... try em vege sausages and bacon from sanitarium ... ave alot of tofu (mmmmmmake tofu) in ur stirfries and stuff and take vitamins too ....
> 
> indian and chinese food are the best for vegetarians ... lotsa varieties and they taste beautiful
> 
> have fun



Yeah, meat-eater myself too. Just get tired of the mongs jumping on the lets-bash-vegos because it fits the current status quo with whats happening on APS....
Even the budgie stitchers support it!


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## ravan (Sep 2, 2009)

i havent read the most of the last two pages, but why must every conversation about vegetarians have to turn into some sort of slanging match about how being vegetarian?
its her body, and she has the right to choose what she puts into it.. so why does everyone else give a f*@#? 
its not you're body so dont worry about it. 
all she asked for was some recipes for christ sake.


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## Australis (Sep 2, 2009)

People (kids) really think small country/farm butchers are more humane than commercial meat works...? :shock:


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## da_donkey (Sep 2, 2009)

hahahha wake up to yourself.... What do you feed your snake, carrots? no.... rodents and what do you feed your dragons, crickets??? yeah. your family dog????? tofu??? no MEAT.....thats right.

Why because they are designed to.....just like us, have a look at your teeth...mmmmmm yes we are omnivores.

dont be un healthy and make yourself sick just to try and save the world.

and this is coming from a ex vego

JMO

donks


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## moosenoose (Sep 2, 2009)

Australis said:


> People (kids) really think small country/farm butchers are more humane than commercial meat works...? :shock:




No!! I know them farmers strangle their produce with their own hands!!! .......8)...........


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## ajdixon (Sep 2, 2009)

i dont eat red meat purely because i can't stomach it, and haven't been able to do so since i was about 13. i'm completely healthy even though i dont consume it, and i'm a female. i went through my teens without red meat and am no worse off for it. so long as you're smart about what you're eating you'll be fine. 

Vegetarian Recipes - Recipe collections - Taste.com.au

hit up this website, they have some tasty recipies! the four cheese gnocchi rocks!

make sure you eat lots of other things that are high in iron. lots of leafy greens! beans work a treat too.


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## jessb (Sep 2, 2009)

ravan said:


> all she asked for was some recipes for christ sake.


 
If she wanted recipes she coud have Googled them. She obviously wanted to talk about becoming vego and get some opinions on the topic...


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

sorry but i never said she couldn't become a vegetarian all i was trying to get across was that abattoirs, which is where most of our meat comes from are actually not as cruel as ppl think! they humanely kill the animals not like some places around the world! your right they may not all be great but most are, especially the one i worked at! sorry if it came out wrong! that's all is was trying to get at!


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## Puddlefish (Sep 2, 2009)

i'll eat pretty much anything.. with the exception of mushrooms.... I don't like mushrooms eww
My partner on other hand is a vegetarian, who doesn't eat eggs Pumpkin or sweet potato. and loves mushrooms hahaha
I have no issues with eating vegetarian..I just have issues cooking vegetarian without eggs pumpkin or sweet potato.....................
I make him do the cooking 
If i feel i need a hit of red meat
i get a burger when he's not around ehehhehe


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## grizz (Sep 2, 2009)

If killen stuff is so wrong what the heck do you feed your snakes?


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## grizz (Sep 2, 2009)

grizz said:


> If killen stuff is so wrong what the heck do you feed your snakes?


 
and when I have a steak sanga i cut out the carbs in the bread by placing my nice piece if scotch fillet between 2 pieces of cross cut blade... wowzas gotta go there is a feed of koala walking passed the front door!


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## Sdaji (Sep 2, 2009)

jessb said:


> If she wanted recipes she coud have Googled them. She obviously wanted to talk about becoming vego and get some opinions on the topic...



:lol:

So Google is for answers and posting on APS is a war cry? Ahhh, sad but true :lol:


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## moosenoose (Sep 2, 2009)

Puddlefish said:


> My partner on other hand is a vegetarian, who doesn't eat eggs *Pumpkin* or [/B]sweet potato[/B]. and loves mushrooms



Ahhhhh!!!! You see!! Those two exact things put me off EVER becoming a vegetarian! :lol: I have this sickly hatred of pumpkin and sweet potato!!! I mean...what is that!!!! They are ghastly!! Roasted pumpkin is the work of Satan!


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## Jessica85 (Sep 2, 2009)

i cant stand pumkin either, if i even try to eat it, i will always dry reach no matter wat! lol, it has got to be the most foul tasting veg i reckon!!


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## TahneeMaree (Sep 2, 2009)

oh I LOVE pumpkin and sweet potato, if I didn't get cravings for red meat (vitamin b deficiency problems) I'd live on veggie stir fry or roasted veggies...


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## cosmicwolf4 (Sep 2, 2009)

Just a comment here. I can't tolerate much meat, it makes me ill, but I have a teenager daughter and insist on her eating some meat, simply because it's the only thing that we can actually metabolise properly to get the nutrients that we otherwise have to get from pills and super huge serves of veggies. 
If you wish to become vegetarian, wait till your body stops growing and developing, at least that way, you will be less likely to develop problems later in life. You do need the natural vitamins and minerals etc that can only come from meat, your body only casts out what it doesn't use, some supplements can and do build up in your tissues and cause other problems. Please consider all the options before you take any further steps. This is the advice I gave my daughter when she was considering it and she has decided to wait till she has stopped growing to decide what she wants to do.
Good luck >:0)


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## Lesa (Sep 3, 2009)

Sdaji said:


> :lol:
> 
> So Google is for answers and posting on APS is a war cry? Ahhh, sad but true :lol:




 No way - can't beleive that....


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## redbellybite (Sep 3, 2009)

YOU KNOW VEGIES SCREAM WHEN BEING PICKED YOU JUST DONT GET TO HEAR THEM ......you know your farts will get that swampy grass smell ...serious though if you plan on getting pregnant down the track ..I would be speaking to your GP and getting all the information you can prior ..as even us meat tearing animal loving steak eaters get iron problems when pregnant ....


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 3, 2009)

i dont plan on having kids :|


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## redbellybite (Sep 3, 2009)

fritzi2009 said:


> i dont plan on having kids :|


At 17 sweetie I didnt plan on having kids either ,but play with fire and one day you may just get burnt


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## moosenoose (Sep 3, 2009)

I've got 3 and still have no idea where they came from :lol:


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## TahneeMaree (Sep 3, 2009)

LOL I wanted kids... buut I dunno if I can aford them cause of all the herps I'm collecting lol


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

lol, i'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian, but I rarely eat eggs. The way I look at it is, if an animal is carnivorous, then i'm fine with it eating meat, as it has to to survive. But I beleive that if an animal is omnivorous, and can survive without eating meat, then we shouldn't eat meat. of course, everyone has the right to their own opinion.


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## notechistiger (Sep 3, 2009)

Just curious, but would you say the same for a bear, vege_head?


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## moosenoose (Sep 3, 2009)

"Nothing my dog likes better than a great big plate of steaming tofu!"

http://vegetariandogs.com/VDWebsite/vd.htm) 8)........... :lol:


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

hmm...I don't know much about bears. If the animal can survive without eating meat, then I beleive it shouldn't...mmmm...Tofu!!!


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## notechistiger (Sep 3, 2009)

Bears, I believe, primarily eat roots, nuts, berries, etc. Would you then say that they _should not_ eat any kind of other animal, despite the fact that they have evolved for millions of years to be opportunistic feeders, and eat whatever they can (I'm being specific to a few species) to build up fat for hibernation.

Just curiosity. It's an interesting topic


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

If the bear needs it to survive, then i'm fine with it.


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## 5potted (Sep 3, 2009)

I decided to be vegetarian when I was 6 and due to iron deficiency around the age of 15 my dietitian recommended I started eating some form of meat so I've been eating chicken. I moved out at 17 and coming on 20 have been cooking for myself for the past 3 years so if you want any food ideas send me a pm. I agree with going to the doctor to have a blood test then see a nutritionist to get some ideas about what food can substitute red meat (they have really good ideas) then go back for another blood test 3ish months down the tract to see if there has been any changes. I'm currently on iron tablets daily and have blood tests every 3 months and i'm healthier than most people my age


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

I have blood tests occasionally, and all my iron levels etc. are above average.

I love nothing more than the sanitarum vegie products. My faves is the vegie bacon, and deli slices!!!


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## 5potted (Sep 3, 2009)

haha typing this as eating vegie bacon... nothing better


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## jessb (Sep 3, 2009)

5potted said:


> haha typing this as eating vegie bacon... nothing better


 
'cept real bacon :lol:


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## Kitah (Sep 3, 2009)

Just a question, how are you classed as a vegetarian if you eat chicken? or fish for that matter... theres no difference between chickens, fish, sheep and cattle, they're all animals...


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## moosenoose (Sep 3, 2009)

vege_head said:


> I love nothing more than the sanitarum vegie products. My faves is the vegie bacon, and deli slices!!!



So you eat stuff that tastes like meat? Kinda funny don't you think? :lol: ....it'd be exactly like a meat-eater biting into a rump steak and thinking "my god this tastes like delicious broccoli!!" ....... ...I mean, don't hold back on something you'd like to eat :lol: ....Nothing better in this world than a 3inch thick rump steak washed down with a terrific beer!


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

I get your point...but I couldn't live with myself if I bit into a dead animal...And there are lots of types of vegetarian. i personally wouldn't classify someone who eats meat or seafood, but tachnically...


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## moosenoose (Sep 3, 2009)

I bet if your rotting carcass lay on the footpath for a few days a stray dog would come along and nibble on your ears   ...first in best dressed I reckon :lol:


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## 5potted (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't class myself as vegetarian... I decided to be vegetarian and lasted 10 years until I was told that I had to eat meat... so now I just clasify myself as someone who "the only meat I eat is chicken". And with the vegie bacon or not sausages it was an easy alternative for my mum so that when they had hotdogs she could just chuck a not sausage in there so I didn't feel left out as a child and have grown up to love the stuff... I cant remember the taste of red meat but most people think my fake alternatives taste like rubber so it doesn't try to mimic the taste of real meat (i think it tastes great but ).


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## potato matter (Sep 3, 2009)

I can't remember the taste of any meat anymore...and if I die, a dog probably would come and eat me.


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## vrhq08 (Sep 4, 2009)

i have been a vegetarian for about 7 years now. i dont see the point in going half way and eating chicken... if you honestly care for animals it shouldnt matter if its a chicken or a cow. if you are wanting to be a good little vegetarian be prepared to read every single food packet out there kiss lollies goodbye. if you look on the vegie delights website they email you once a month with decent recepies. eat lots of spinache mushrooms kidney beans tofu and all that good stuff. and soy milk mmmmm... i have blood tests every 2nd year and have never had a problem. you need to think this through more. animal products are in alot of medication and addedtives in food. and if your not prepared to go the full distance dont claim to be one. their are many good products out there to subsitute eggs and cheese and most of them taste pretty good. if you do need any help feel free 2 chuck us a message. vegetarian food is alot of fun you wont regret making the change


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## Puddlefish (Sep 4, 2009)

tehehe
thats the best thing about havin another half thats a full blown vegetarian.. All tho he will eat cheese as long as it doesn't contain animal rennet, and he will drink organic milk..
The lollies n chocolate
I never have to share hehehe


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## mrmikk (Sep 4, 2009)

TahneeMaree said:


> probably different circiumstances Asharee... I'm 20 and I'm not allowed to cook meals (mother if highly possesive of her kitchen)... I have never been taught and get taunted by my own parentals if they DO actually let me have a try at it...


 
Geez, that's a bit tough, you have to learn somewhere and best place to do it is at home.


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## PhilK (Sep 4, 2009)

vrhq08 said:


> i have been a vegetarian for about 7 years now. i dont see the point in going half way and eating chicken... if you honestly care for animals it shouldnt matter if its a chicken or a cow. if you are wanting to be a good little vegetarian be prepared to read every single food packet out there kiss lollies goodbye. if you look on the vegie delights website they email you once a month with decent recepies. eat lots of spinache mushrooms kidney beans tofu and all that good stuff. and soy milk mmmmm... i have blood tests every 2nd year and have never had a problem. you need to think this through more. animal products are in alot of medication and addedtives in food. and if your not prepared to go the full distance dont claim to be one. their are many good products out there to subsitute eggs and cheese and most of them taste pretty good. if you do need any help feel free 2 chuck us a message. vegetarian food is alot of fun you wont regret making the change


..I think you are confusing vegan and vegetarian?


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## vrhq08 (Sep 5, 2009)

how so my suggestions for cheese alternative? alot of cheese contain rennet. geletine is another one in alot of food. i suggested the egg subsitute only because eggs freak me out.


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## whcasual79 (Sep 5, 2009)

i gota to admit in the 4 years i was a vego, i only got sick once... that too was just a cold that lasted 2 days... spose now im paying the price for eating meat ha... i just can't resist it ha


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## snake_lover (Sep 5, 2009)

i tried to go vego last year i spent a week researching recipes. i think i lasted like 4 hours until my mum slammed a blue steak down in front of me and i just couldnt resist, my willpower isnt that strong


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## potato matter (Sep 5, 2009)

I read every food packet before eating the contents, and i'm careful about animal rennet. The rennnet is intestines right??


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## jessb (Sep 5, 2009)

vege_head said:


> I read every food packet before eating the contents, and i'm careful about animal rennet. The rennnet is intestines right??


 
It's not exactly intestines, it is an enzyme derived from the stomach lining of cows/sheep. 

Apparently it was discovered when Arabic traders put their milk supply into bags made of sheep's stomachs to transport them on long journeys. After a day sloshing about in the hot sun, mixing with the rennet, the milk had turned to cheese - hence the discovery of cheesemaking! Then that knowledge travelled up through North Africa to Southern Europe, and eventually to the French who perfected it!


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## Brianna (Sep 5, 2009)

I think the difference between bears eating meat and humans eating meat is that humans have the capacity to reason about ethics and have greater access to a wide variety of foods that can fulfil their dietary requirements. Yes this might require some initial effort to educate yourself about what to eat to stay healthy, but this is really quite easy. I am vegetarian and have been since I was very young, and I am healthy and play sport at an elite level. The illnesses and diseases suffered by people eating way too much meat are far more serious than the illnesses caused by people not eating meat at all. 

Regarding abattoirs, the killing of animals is in some instances adequately regulated, but the living conditions of animals certainly are not adequately provided for in legislation (if they are provided for at all). 

You are wrong PhilK, there is not enough regulation. Most regulation basically leaves it up to the industry to create codes of practice, and of course the industry does whatever reaps the highest profits. Look at Voiceless.com which is an animal protection group with many lawyers as members, and their reports... these people actually know about the legislation and its interpretation.

Farm animals are generally exempt from animal welfare legislation. Pigs have their tails cut off without anaesthetic, sheep and pigs are sterilised (male ones) without anaesthetic...I can't believe that that doesn't hurt. They scream and cry when it happens, and their stress levels have been shown to be very elevated for a long time afterwards. Pigs are kept in cages so small they can barely move. Veal calves are kept in very small cages so that they don't develop muscles to make the meat too tough, and are given artificial diets lacking in what they need, just to make the meat taste better. Male chicks in chicken farms are often put straight into shredding machines. 

Many animals used in the meat industry are social animals and animals that fossick or graze. Keeping them segregated in tiny enclosures and preventing them from behaving naturally is very cruel. 

Even though she is still eating some meat, at least she is doing her bit to prevent cruelty. Better than nothing. 

The majority of meat available for sale in Australia is meat that comes from animals that have been treated in a cruel way. That is a fact and it is sad that so many people convince themselves otherwise and tell their wrongly held opinions to others, further prolonging the existing ignorance on these issues. Yes there are a small number of farms producing meat that do not treat their animals that way, but they are a very minute minority.


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## redbellybite (Sep 5, 2009)

I think in all honesty and with all due respect when I say this ...VEG HEADS its all ok if that is what you choose to do and your ethics might be 'because you love animals " but gimme me a break !!!!!!!! just because I dont fully rely on vegetable matter for all of my nutrients doesnt mean I am a barbaric human either ...you state your rights as a human and your beliefs and you live by those choices but dont be throwing stones at us meat eaters because we have differant ideas then you lot ...


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## Retic (Sep 5, 2009)

Just cut off it's horns, wipe it's butt and slap it between 2 pieces of bread 



moosenoose said:


> Show me a cow, and I will eat it!


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## potato matter (Sep 5, 2009)

boa said:


> Just cut off it's horns, wipe it's butt and slap it between 2 pieces of bread


 
exactly something a meat eater would say, lol.


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## PhilK (Sep 5, 2009)

Brianna said:


> Look at Voiceless.com which is an animal protection group with many lawyers as members, and their reports... these people actually know about the legislation and its interpretation.


An animal welfare group is saying the industry is doing things wrong???!?! NO WAY!! That can't be biased at all!




> Farm animals are generally exempt from animal welfare legislation. Pigs have their tails cut off without anaesthetic, sheep and pigs are sterilised (male ones) without anaesthetic...I can't believe that that doesn't hurt. They scream and cry when it happens, and their stress levels have been shown to be very elevated for a long time afterwards


You obviously haven't read the studies about stress hormone elevation with regards to various farm animal procedures, as they say very different things to what you are claiming... I've cut off many a testicle and many a tail. When done properly, and when the animals are of proper age, there is very little complaining. With regards to "screaming and crying".. you do realise they scream and cry (especially piglets) even if you just pick them up? You can't judge screaming and crying to equal pain. Animals aren't humans. You're right - the procedures do hurt. Just like desexing dogs under anaesthetic hurts when they wake up, just like injections and especially microchipping dogs hurts, but nobody complains about that.



> Pigs are kept in cages so small they can barely move


Farrowing sows are kept as such to prevent them crushing their piglets to death. The cages adhere to animal ethics guidlines and the pigs are not stressed (according to blood hormone levels). 



> Veal calves are kept in very small cages so that they don't develop muscles to make the meat too tough, and are given artificial diets lacking in what they need, just to make the meat taste better.


Not true, mostly. They are usually sent from the dairy farm to the meatworks straight away. Not many 'veal farms' around.




> Many animals used in the meat industry are social animals and animals that fossick or graze. Keeping them segregated in tiny enclosures and preventing them from behaving naturally is very cruel.


Apart from farrowing pigs that is not true. Cattle sheep and goats are all kept in big groups. Pigs are kept in large pens unless they are farrowing.




> The majority of meat available for sale in Australia is meat that comes from animals that have been treated in a cruel way.


I'm sorry that is rubbish, and you have no way to back that up.. Jut because you think something is cruel, it doesn't mean it is. Did you know that PETA protest against keeping animals as pets because it's cruel? Case in point.


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## Retic (Sep 5, 2009)

Absolutely 



vege_head said:


> exactly something a meat eater would say, lol.


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## redbellybite (Sep 5, 2009)

Pigs have their tails cut off without anaesthetic,..as you quoted ...WELL NEWBORN MALE CHILDREN have their socks cut off without anaesthetic !!!!(that so called numbing gel dont relieve the pain as some would think!) 

inside our mouths ..our teeth prove we are meat eaters...


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## Hooglabah (Sep 5, 2009)

simple solution to your problem get a gun licence a single shot .22 learn to shoot well buy book on cooking rabbit. Theres your meat killed quick, clean and your doing your bit for our envirnoment. may i also add shot meat is much much healthier for you than any meat purchased anywhere. and the animal will have led a good free range life.

jmo tho


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## potato matter (Sep 5, 2009)

Biological control!!!


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## notechistiger (Sep 5, 2009)

Biological control? Where did that come from?


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## jdonly1 (Sep 5, 2009)

I would struggle with out eating meat,some times I think Im a meataterian:lol:
Tonights spit roast


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## jessb (Sep 5, 2009)

mmmm jdonly1, looks awesome! Ate a vego dinner tonight because my 4yo daughter doesn't eat much meat, but tomorrow for father's day we are taking my husband out for the biggest hamburgers we can find!


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## bk201 (Sep 6, 2009)

carnivores eat meat
omnivores eat meat and vegetables etc
herbivores eat vegetables fruits etc

humans are omnivores.

ps. if anyone knows anything vegetarian that tastes exactly like Italian meatlovers pizza il become a hippy with you all.

also 50% of the replies in this thread are false and misleading, people should research farming practices before spouting nonsense they read of a site like PETA (have a look into there owners and youl think twice next time)


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## poguebono (Sep 6, 2009)

Happy, healthy Vegetarian since 2001


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## jamesbecker (Sep 6, 2009)

[video=youtube;_9SuABGeeb8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9SuABGeeb8[/video]


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## potato matter (Sep 6, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> Biological control? Where did that come from?


 
sorry, wrong thread.


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

xshadowx said:


> Just a question, how are you classed as a vegetarian if you eat chicken? or fish for that matter... theres no difference between chickens, fish, sheep and cattle, they're all animals...


 

not correct. Im Vego and i have been for more than a year now, i did an ethics assignment on it in year 11 and made my up my decisoin from there. Fish don't have the same nervous system as say a cow or pig or any mammal for that matter, fish are in a different category and don't have the same nervous system to handle the pain as do cows etc. 

a pig for example has the same intelligence of a 4 year old kid.....thats murder
what i dont get is people like phil and that other chick who worked in an abbatoir think its ok to eat meat, ofcourse they can have their own opinoins but they are narrow minded.
eating meat is so fu**ed up! you can get your nutrients from other vegetables and sources.. infact there have been several studies prove that eating meat is prone to causing many severe health issues...not only this but it screws the environment and like the chick who started this thread said...it contributes to fu**ing 3rd world countries up-creating more poverty...GREAT just what we need

why should you have to eat meat then? because it tastes good?? give your self an uppercut. 
people are so ignorant that they think eating meat is what we are designed to do?? are you kidding me? god didnt create animals to be eaten. he said "i give you these seeds to grow your food" or something along that meaning not "here take these cows and eat them they taste bloody good!"

why should we be the ones to decide to eat meat? 
think about the bad karma you bring yourself!!??

since ive been vego i have had ALOT of good karma, its great for the environment and great for your body! get protein from beans, lentils, etc etc
iron from mushrooms spinach etc etc
there is an abundance of foods you can eat to supplement the nutrients in meat!

excuse me but i know a bloke who works in an abbatoir and he tells me for a fact that the animals are treated like ****!
he told me that often the gun that the cows are hit with through the head often miss and they are left alive for a few minutes untill they shoot it again with the pressure gun. once they are killed they rip the eyes out chop the legs off rip open the stomach and pull the guts out-is that really how we should be treating other living things??

paul mcartney said "if abbatoirs has glass windows everyone would be vego"
what happened to the days of the hippies where everyone was vego?
such a peacful place. so really the question still stands...

WHY DO YOU EAT MEAT? 

is it just because it tastes good? how about you have a think about what effects it has on the world and yourself.

thanks


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## JaxxO_o (Sep 14, 2009)

how about you have a think about what effects it has on the world and yourself.
thanks[/QUOTE said:


> do you care about the little kids dying over in other countries like you do for these live stock..like do you help them out in anyway (sponsorship) ,like you do with live stock .


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

Oh God!
Simple fact is that you will more than likely die a more horrible and painful death than any meat product you eat!!
Cattle is killed using a bolt gun which causes instant death, Chicken is killed by shocking and bleeding, fish is killed by freezing.
So sick of people sprouting off false information that they see on a today tonight special, No the cattle in Australia are not mistreated and nor are any primative methods of death used.

I think you will also find that plants also have DNA and have been proven to be very intelligent organisms so how can you say your doing it for the animals sake when your just going to do the same to a plant? If you say that they are different circumstances than your doing nothing but contridicting yourself.

I just don't understand why I have to waste my tax dollars on people who will just end up in hospital to be treated for malnutrition,anemia, iron deficiencies etc all because they suddenly grew a heart.
Grow up!


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

JaxxO_o said:


> do you care about the little kids dying over in other countries like you do for these live stock..like do you help them out in anyway (sponsorship) ,like you do with live stock .


 
sure do mate recently did the 40hour famine and raised over $200 
that will feed a large family for 6 months

also sponsor a kid through world vision costs me about $2 per day 

i am very proud of myself and i see it as generating good karma


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> Oh God!
> Simple fact is that you will more than likely die a more horrible and painful death than any meat product you eat!!
> Cattle is killed using a bolt gun which causes instant death, Chicken is killed by shocking and bleeding, fish is killed by freezing.
> So sick of people sprouting off false information that they see on a today tonight special, No the cattle in Australia are not mistreated and nor are any primative methods of death used.
> ...


 
your the sort of person im referring to....you take an ignorant stand on this topic...you are not wasting your tax dollars on vegetarians anway and what a load of bullshit your talking about, your the one that needs to grow up and become a little more open minded. 

i hope you get bought back as a cow in your next life. :x


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> once they are killed they rip the eyes out chop the legs off rip open the stomach and pull the guts out-is that really how we should be treating other living things??


 
Don't we also do that in medical science to save peoples lives? Don't we also perform autopsys on dead humans to find the cause of death?

And sorry to tell you but due to fact that our eyes are at the front of our heads we are predators which means we eat meat, so maybe you can share those facts next time your dancing around naked at woodstock


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> Don't we also do that in medical science to save peoples lives? Don't we also perform autopsys on dead humans to find the cause of death?
> 
> And sorry to tell you but due to fact that our eyes are at the front of our heads we are predators which means we eat meat, so maybe you can share those facts next time your dancing around naked at woodstock


 
good one mate, whatever makes you feel like a decent human being, go on go sacrifice a living creature so you can get some enjoyment for your tastebuds, Hope you enjoy it as much as i will enjoy knowing you being reincarnated as an animal that your kids will kill so that they can enjoy their steak while attaining heart disease. and while they are at it they may aswell completely **** up the environment, who cares seriously, why should we? its not going to affect you is it? Nope!

**** the drought! did you know it takes 10 000 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef? 
as long as you have your steak hey bud!  even though we are not in a drought atm what about the land that is damaged by the production of beef? who cares? not you!



and yes if woodstock was still on id be the one protesting for animal rights-here we come woodford folk festival


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> your the sort of person im referring to....you take an ignorant stand on this topic...you are not wasting your tax dollars on vegetarians anway and what a load of bullshit your talking about, your the one that needs to grow up and become a little more open minded.
> 
> i hope you get bought back as a cow in your next life. :x


 
Maybe you need to do some real research on how animals that are used for human consumption are treated, and that doesn't mean on the "PETA pack-me-another-cone website".
Actually why don't you go and have little look at where the stock is rased and how they slaughter 
the animals, a lot of places will allow you to do so and i'm sure you will stop tooting your own horn once you have done so.

You also didn't answer my question of how it's wrong to eat meat because it's a living organism but fine to eat plant matter which is also a living organism? Do the rules just apply to suit you so you can't point your finger at others and judge them because they eat meat? 
A good example of this is how vego's don't want to be judged for not eating meat yet will try to lobby any company which supplies/slaughters meat.....a little contradicting?
I have seen how animals are kept and killed commercialy and it's nothing like you vego's make it out to be, they are clean,healthy and happy animals.


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> good one mate, whatever makes you feel like a decent human being, go on go sacrifice a living creature so you can get some enjoyment for your tastebuds, Hope you enjoy it as much as i will enjoy knowing you being reincarnated as an animal that your kids will kill so that they can enjoy their steak while attaining heart disease. and while they are at it they may aswell completely **** up the environment, who cares seriously, why should we? its not going to affect you is it? Nope!
> 
> **** the drought! did you know it takes 10 000 litres of water to produce 1kg of beef?
> as long as you have your steak hey bud!  even though we are not in a drought atm what about the land that is damaged by the production of beef? who cares? not you!
> ...


 
Okay so your saying we shouldn't eat animals because we need to kill them to do so BUT your also saying they are destroying the land by being alive? Make up your mind!! 
If your so pro-environment why do you keep reptiles in captivity? Isn't that going to give you bad karma because you keep one of mother natures creatures in a cage? Or are you just setting rules to suit yourself?
You are still yet to answer a single one of my questions and I can only guess it's because you know I am right, That or the fact you have so little iron in your body it's making you a little dopey.


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> Maybe you need to do some real research on how animals that are used for human consumption are treated, and that doesn't mean on the "PETA pack-me-another-cone website".
> Actually why don't you go and have little look at where the stock is rased and how they slaughter
> the animals, a lot of places will allow you to do so and i'm sure you will stop tooting your own horn once you have done so.
> 
> ...


 
haha what good is an internet argment!
its wrong to eat meat because it is sacrifising a livng organisms life for one purpose only....for your satisfaction, as for your stupid question about the plants, mate they are plants and have no nervous system you fool! would you eat your dog? the only difference is your dog is domesticated...what difference would it make if it was "humanely killed? 
your attached to it just like if it was a human. did you know snake is a delicasy in asian countries? how about you kill it humanley free of pain and eat that? whats the difference??

and actually you will find alot of true vegos will judge people on if they eat meat or not, they are on a much higher level according to kohlbergs 7 stages of moral development. you will find you are still at a pre conventional level and vegos...well post conventional! 

from seeing that a person refrains from eating meat you can instantly tell so much about them, how they care for the planet, for their health.....other vegos associate with other vegos because they are like minded but seriously i am not trying to make ou become vego, by all means i encourage you to take your own opinion but i don't want to hear your **** anymore


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> haha what good is an internet argment!
> its wrong to eat meat because it is sacrifising a livng organisms life for one purpose only....for your satisfaction, as for your stupid question about the plants, mate they are plants and have no nervous system you fool! would you eat your dog? the only difference is your dog is domesticated...what difference would it make if it was "humanely killed?
> your attached to it just like if it was a human. did you know snake is a delicasy in asian countries? how about you kill it humanley free of pain and eat that? whats the difference??
> 
> ...


 
So your sayin plants can't feel pain? Again perhaps you should research that!!
You seem to keep sprouting a lot of crap without answering any questions or even showing ay facts!
If your so pro-planet why are you on a computer which has parts that will never bio-degrade? Why are you on a computer that is run on power which is non renewable?
Why do you live in a house which also has parts which can't be reused or broken down?

Your nothing but a hypocrite!
If you want to practice what you preach than go and throw your computer out, live in a hut, don't buy food with any packaging, don't use any forms of transport which uses fuel, don't use electricity which isn't solar or hydro!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> Okay so your saying we shouldn't eat animals because we need to kill them to do so BUT your also saying they are destroying the land by being alive? Make up your mind!!
> If your so pro-environment why do you keep reptiles in captivity? Isn't that going to give you bad karma because you keep one of mother natures creatures in a cage? Or are you just setting rules to suit yourself?
> You are still yet to answer a single one of my questions and I can only guess it's because you know I am right, That or the fact you have so little iron in your body it's making you a little dopey.


 

ok firstly, the fact that commercial farming is a trade is what is devastating the land, its because of the huge numbers of cows who are farmed solely for this purpose that cause this destruction to the environment. you see if this was not a trade then the small number of animals such as cows wouldnt be nearly as big of a strain on the environment. 

and your second comment about keeping reptiles- how is this going to create bad karma? i am treating it with respect and dignity, probably a better life than what it would have in the wild. fed regularly etc etc. given enormous amounts of space to live in, regularly handled, no predators etc 

and trust me mate there is no way in the world i would even consider you to be right IMO. 

also how do you feel about the farming of chickens, how do you think they are treated


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> So your sayin plants can't feel pain? Again perhaps you should research that!!
> You seem to keep sprouting a lot of crap without answering any questions or even showing ay facts!
> If your so pro-planet why are you on a computer which has parts that will never bio-degrade? Why are you on a computer that is run on power which is non renewable?
> Why do you live in a house which also has parts which can't be reused or broken down?
> ...


 

all i can say to that is i am only doing my bit to help the planet be a better place, and don't call me a hypocrite please. i am a student and there is no way i could do well without using computers etc etc. there is a level here where i am doing my but but there is a level that is going to a whole new extreme.

what are you doing to help the environment? and mate i dont need facts about any of my argument its all about morals and common knowledge something you obviously lack. 

i will hold my opions firm and will never change, but seriously man im just doing my bit and at the end of the day i feel a better person than i once did, i feel as though i have made a positive step forward to help the environment, although not everything i do is perfect for the environment i try wherever possible to make the world a better place for all.


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> ok firstly, the fact that commercial farming is a trade is what is devastating the land, its because of the huge numbers of cows who are farmed solely for this purpose that cause this destruction to the environment. you see if this was not a trade then the small number of animals such as cows wouldnt be nearly as big of a strain on the environment.
> 
> and your second comment about keeping reptiles- how is this going to create bad karma? i am treating it with respect and dignity, probably a better life than what it would have in the wild. fed regularly etc etc. given enormous amounts of space to live in, regularly handled, no predators etc
> 
> ...


 
So your reptiles have more room than they would in the wild? And to let you in on a little secret reptiles don' get handled in the wild
And yes I am sure the cows are having a far greater impact on the land than you are like I know cows usually drive cars,generate tons of rubbish and use electricty and all:lol:

Either get with the food chain or go live in a remote villiage, because until then your exactly like us meat eaters but you just think your better.


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## webcol (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> ok firstly, the fact that commercial farming is a trade is what is devastating the land, its because of the huge numbers of cows who are farmed solely for this purpose that cause this destruction to the environment. you see if this was not a trade then the small number of animals such as cows wouldnt be nearly as big of a strain on the environment.
> 
> and your second comment about keeping reptiles- how is this going to create bad karma? i am treating it with respect and dignity, probably a better life than what it would have in the wild. fed regularly etc etc. given enormous amounts of space to live in, regularly handled, no predators etc
> 
> ...



because a snake being handled will better its life?
I didnt realise enclosures were better then the natural habitat?


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> So your reptiles have more room than they would in the wild? And to let you in on a little secret reptiles don' get handled in the wild
> And yes I am sure the cows are having a far greater impact on the land than you are like I know cows usually drive cars,generate tons of rubbish and use electricty and all:lol:
> 
> Either get with the food chain or go live in a remote villiage, because until then your exactly like us meat eaters but you just think your better.


 

i said they have alot of room to roam free anyway.
you really are a dumbass- i was stating that reptiles are handled by their owners which is a positive. 

and don't be a smartass mate, know one thinks your funny except your mum. 




_Global warming. Overexploited natural resources. Deforestation. Wasted land. Water and air pollution. The most serious environmental problems of our time are all directly linked to eating meat.

__

_*A 2006 United Nations report summarized the devastation caused by the meat industry by calling it "one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global.*


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## notechistiger (Sep 14, 2009)

vinny74, you're reminding me of one of those hippy, god-loving people whose arguments make no sense and seem to deprive humanity of yet more logic.

Please look at your statements and rethink them with a logical view... not a spiritual/karma one. You are not going to be winning anyone over by spouting how ignorant people are (and implying how superior you are).

Instead, educate yourself a little more about the topic. Most of the videos you'll find about factory farming have come from overseas. Look for Australian based videos and organisations. Please do not support PETA. They started with a good idea and took it too far.

Humans have _evolved_ to eat meat (and plants, of course). This is going to count for a lot more then what you have been saying. If you want to look up some more solid reasoning for why it is bad to eat meat, look up Peter Singer, the founder of Animal Liberation (and author of the same book). He is an Australian philosopher and quite noteworthy.

I would disagree with you on your point that the slaughter of meat is the reason why developing nations are poor. You need to look further into the political, social and economical reasons for this is so. Currently, our slaughter of meat does nothing to or for them.

As for the nervous system comment. Didn't you just say that fish have an nervous system, so they don't really count... then base your reasoning for why eating meat is a negative around this point? Your logic is flawed (again look at Peter Singer for better reasoning).


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> vinny74, you're reminding me of one of those hippy, god-loving people whose arguments make no sense and seem to deprive humanity of yet more logic.
> 
> Please look at your statements and rethink them with a logical view... not a spiritual/karma one. You are not going to be winning anyone over by spouting how ignorant people are (and implying how superior you are).
> 
> ...


 

you know i honestly dont give a hoot what you think about it, and really im not making myself sound superior to anyone.....its just my opinion that its really very wrong both from a ethical perspective and spiritual perspective. 

do what you want but eventually it will come around to get you. no matter how you justify it! 
there is simply no valuable reason why humans need to consume meat. 
my logic is obviously flawed! you like to eat meat and my reasoning is just bullshit, donlt listen to me!


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## vinny74 (Sep 14, 2009)

and as you stated i am a god loving hippy, i am 
but there is no reason to state that my arguments make no sense and that they seem to deprive humaity of yet more logic? for if everyone was vego the world would be a better place for everyone, jst look at the 60s and 70s.. any other vegos out there please have some input on this topic as it is very biased


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## vinny74 (Sep 15, 2009)

also i stated that fish dont have the same nervous system as mammals and they have a completely different neuorological design thus they have different receptors to pain and different emotions to that of a human a cow or a pig for example.


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> i said they have alot of room to roam free anyway.
> you really are a dumbass- i was stating that reptiles are handled by their owners which is a positive.
> 
> and don't be a smartass mate, know one thinks your funny except your mum.
> ...


 
I consider my self a bit of an environmentalist, but i dont think meat is the blame for that much?
Deforestation is cased by eating meat? You should re think the direct links to de forestation, when your are sitting in your timber house with timber furniture. the timber industry focuses more on the timber products then it does meat....
What about global warming and air pollution, wouldn't your transport and electricity for living also be a factor? 
Hypocrite..


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> also i stated that fish dont have the same nervous system as mammals and they have a completely different neuorological design thus they have different receptors to pain and different emotions to that of a human a cow or a pig for example.



So you wouldn't save the whales then?


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## vinny74 (Sep 15, 2009)

untouchables said:


> I consider my self a bit of an environmentalist, but i dont think meat is the blame for that much?
> Deforestation is cased by eating meat? You should re think the direct links to de forestation, when your are sitting in your timber house with timber furniture. the timber industry focuses more on the timber products then it does meat....
> What about global warming and air pollution, wouldn't your transport and electricity for living also be a factor?
> Hypocrite..


 
as i said before i am nly doing my bit to help the earth be a better place
as soon as i finish school i will live in my kombi and use as little electricity as possible. 

if you consider yourself an environmentalist and you eat meat also then that makes you more of a hypocrite doesn't it?
YES,

please refrain from posting immature responces to this thread. grow up


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> as i said before i am nly doing my bit to help the earth be a better place
> as soon as i finish school i will live in my kombi and use as little electricity as possible.
> 
> if you consider yourself an environmentalist and you eat meat also then that makes you more of a hypocrite doesn't it?
> ...



Yes but do my bit in a more suttle and less forcing my views down on people way. 
I dont go to the extreme and dictate to people how they should live. I only said " a bit" meaning minor..


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## notechistiger (Sep 15, 2009)

Your arguments don't make sense. It is not based on sound logic (please, I do philosophy and regularly study good arguments). I said that you're "eople whose arguments make no sense and seem to deprive humanity of yet more logic". Please don't take what I say out of context. I was not calling you that.

If you want more people to become like you (that is, vegetarian and morally superior), then I suggest you find some better reasoning other then "it is bad on an ethical and spiritual perspective" rather then acting like a teenager and not "giving a hoot about what people think". Believe it or not, but some people study these issues as a profession, and know a hell of a lot more then you do.

Your attitude is doing nothing for you, other then deterring others away from becoming vegetarian.


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> firstly you have no idea what you are talking about....whales are mammals
> and yes i am against whaling, i am an activist for teensagainstwhaling.com



Yes but at a social level they are considered similar to fish, as they are ocean dwelling. Thats they are hunted the same as fish. Im not saying to change your ways, but i think your the one with the problem as you are judging everyone who eats meat. Im just having a friendly debate, im not the one calling people names. NO one said to change your 'ways' , just dont make everyone change theirs...


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## vinny74 (Sep 15, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> Your arguments don't make sense. It is not based on sound logic (please, I do philosophy and regularly study good arguments). I said that you're "eople whose arguments make no sense and seem to deprive humanity of yet more logic". Please don't take what I say out of context. I was not calling you that.
> 
> If you want more people to become like you (that is, vegetarian and morally superior), then I suggest you find some better reasoning other then "it is bad on an ethical and spiritual perspective" rather then acting like a teenager and not "giving a hoot about what people think". Believe it or not, but some people study these issues as a profession, and know a hell of a lot more then you do.
> 
> Your attitude is doing nothing for you, other then deterring others away from becoming vegetarian.


 
im not at all saying that i know as much as the philosophers. and also not saying that im superior to anyone! 
and no i dont care if people become vegetarian or not, its their choice. quite frankly i dont care what other people think about this because IMO their reasoning is stupid and unethical. what better reasoning is there other than its unethical, that should be all it takes, and i doubt my opinion is deterring people from becoming vegos because 2 of my closest mates are now vegos, they have seen what crap this industry is and i hope you see it as well


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## vinny74 (Sep 15, 2009)

untouchables you are talking rubbish, and i am not saying to everyone to change their ways


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

also i never said to change your ways, be a vegetarian if you like, i tried it once.
But dont try and tell everyone not to eat meat. In the end we are just beast with big brains, We are designed to hunt, thats why we have hunting teeth, and frontal vision. If we were to purely eat vegetables why would our appendix be so small and insignificant?


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> untouchables you are talking rubbish, and i am not saying to everyone to change their ways



You may not have said to change our ways directly, but you did in an in direct manner by saying things such as that eating meat is unethical.


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## notechistiger (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm afraid your age is showing, vinny. Your attitude since coming onto this thread has been nothing but insulting and insisting upon arrogance and ignorance. You have not looked at the wider issue here (including things such as the economical and social justification for factory farming), and where you have, you have failed to grasp the bigger points and instead focus on childish and insignificant points that mean nothing.

I think it's absolutely great that you're trying to do something to better the animals and environment, but I think you're going about it in the wrong manner. One of the biggest criteria for being able to debate ethics and philosophy is humility and the ability to see the flaws in your own arguments, and of course, to remain impersonal about it. You have insulted members of this forum, given a very nonchalant and rude attitude to those who understand the issues a little better than you do (as indicated by your responses), and have insisted that there is no greater alternative to your view then your own. Here is where you are wrong.

You do not go to the basis of why you think it is wrong. You do not question _why_ it is unethical, why being unethical makes it wrong, etc., etc. Once you understand these, then you can start preaching to others (and that is what you have been doing, whether you know it or not). Until then, you're only appearing to be an uneducated fool.

As I previously suggested, perhaps you should read some of Peter Singer's work. He is an excellent philosopher and a very clever thinker. I can even link his works on animal liberation and factory farming if you wish. This will, I hope, broaden your scope of thinking. Philosophy (as this is indeed philosophy) is extremely interesting. You are simply going about it the wrong way


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## Crystal..Discus (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> not correct. Im Vego and i have been for more than a year now, i did an ethics assignment on it in year 11 and made my up my decisoin from there. Fish don't have the same nervous system as say a cow or pig or any mammal for that matter, fish are in a different category and don't have the same nervous system to handle the pain as do cows etc.
> 
> a pig for example has the same intelligence of a 4 year old kid.....thats murder
> what i dont get is people like phil and that other chick who worked in an abbatoir think its ok to eat meat, ofcourse they can have their own opinoins but they are narrow minded.
> ...


. 

Last year I had some rather nasty health problems, and after several consulations with a nutritionist, I'm on my way to being relatively healthy  During our chat time, she told me that the human body was designed with specific needs that need to be filled on a daily basis. 

Our teeth are designed for the process of chewing/cutting flesh, while our molars are designed (much like herbavors) to deal with leafy greens. There are valuable minerals, vitamins and supplements to be found in both, but when it comes down to it, eating meat is "natural" occurance. We are omnivorous by nature. How is that a bad thing? 

I'm not saying vegetarians are wrong by any means - I even considered it for the dietary reasons once (red meats were making me feel ill - that's been fixed though with a major overhaul to my diet). The right balance with nuts, fruits, lentils, and greens can be just as beneficial  Choosing that lifestyle choice should be made with a great deal of consideration. A friend's mother put her on a vegan diet that had been poorly researched, and as a result, she's a frail little thing who got no where NEAR the right amount of nutrients she needed while growing up.

As for the slaughtering issues - read up on Australian Trading Practices. I'm not going to go any further then that, because I've dealt with people like you too often to say anything more then "Google it" now. 

You're the type of vegetarian that gives others a bad name. The type that spouts moralisitic jargon in an attempt to make us all feel bad about ourselves. Instead of highlighting the major draws and leaving people with that, you have to bag their way of life in an attempt to feel more secure about your choice. 

Thanks.


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## whcasual79 (Sep 15, 2009)

all the poor girl asked for was for recipes and now she gets all this bicker .... ahhhhhhhhhhh


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## vrhq08 (Sep 15, 2009)

ARGH its people like this that give us vegos a bad name. if that’s your opinion keep it to yourself. if people choose to eat meat that’s up to them. Do you enjoy Mormons coming and trying to sell their religion? Your trying to force your views onto other people and failing miserably. Its good that you have made the choice for yourself but leave others be. It’s no use bickering over whose side is right honestly I think there’s valid points to both sides. It’s a personal life style choice there is no right or wrong thing. Yes the meat industry produces a lot of emissions but as will your kombi

//end rant


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## redbellybite (Sep 15, 2009)

Your arguments about stop eating meat ..for the sake of the enviroment and the cruelty of animals ...well if this went ahead ..and not a cow was touched nor a sheep or pig, goat, camel ,chook ,duck or turkey ....In this country alone ,the amount of domesticated farming animals alone is huge ..so what happens to these animals ? they continue to breed ,they continue to roam free as you seem to want for them and they squeeze out all our native animals eat their food ..what are your suggestions to do with all these animals if we are to all give up meat ...? you dont mind arguing your point but how do you solve all the unwanted meat left over from your ideas?


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## vinny74 (Sep 15, 2009)

i am sorry if i offended anyone, im very passionate about this topic and got worked up last night very easily.

cheers


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## webcol (Sep 15, 2009)

vinny74 said:


> i am sorry if i offended anyone, im very passionate about this topic and got worked up last night very easily.
> 
> cheers



Thats alright mate, atleast you didn't come back on for round to. Just be a bit more mindful next time.
I know what you mean i can get passionate also. I have a great interest in the environment and wildlife. I have even sent an application for Environmental science and management at uni neext year


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## twylaskye (Oct 18, 2009)

I know that this thread stopped a little while ago but would just like to add a few things. I am vegetarian. I do not eat eggs or very much dairy. I have had a child and throughout that pregnancy had no problems with lack of nutrients. On the contrary i have an above average level of iron even through said pregnancy. While yes i agree that humans are omnivores i choose this life based on an ethical and health basis. While humans of long ago hunted and gathered for there food i believe this diet was fine. They were extremely active and it would have been highly unlikely that humans fed on meat every day. For the society of today where the meat industry is impacting so greatly on environmental, health and ethical issues i do not believe it is an approriate diet. This is only my opinion. You have your own. 

But please if you call yourself vegetarian, do not consume chicken and fish. By doing so you are giving the greater community the wrong idea. A vegetarian does not eat animal meat products. I am sick of asking for a vegetarian option on a menu and being told they have chicken or fish. Good luck if you have decided to become vegetarian. I find it a highly fulfilling lifestyle. There are many, many different delicious dishes available.


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