# Snake ID Illawarra



## Stormanne (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi all this is my first posting!! We live on the Illawarra escarpment and while not a snake lover or keeper we like to be able to identify the snakes we come across. One small snake is making this dificult. They? appear under the dog kennel grey in colour cream under belly? Never longer than 30 to 40cm. We relocate them but they keep comming back. If harmless we will stop relocating them! We have one in a bucket and will take some photos which may assist the ID!


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*Bit hard without a pic mate  ... go take a pic and you'll get an answer in no time (poor doggy's!) *


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## Stormanne (Feb 16, 2008)

Here is the photos of the small grey snake, can it be identified?


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## moloch05 (Feb 16, 2008)

It looks like an Eastern Small-eyed Snake to me. I can't see any pattern on the head that should be obvious if it was a Golden-crowned Snake. Eastern Small-eyed Snakes seem to be the most abundant elapid on the escarpment. Golden-crowned Snakes are also common.

Here are a couple of pics:
Eastern Small-eyed Snake:










Golden-crowned Snake:









Regards,
David


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## AdhamhRuadh (Feb 16, 2008)

Small eyed maybe?? Just a random guess...


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## AdhamhRuadh (Feb 16, 2008)

Guess thats two votes for small eyed hey moloch? :lol:


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*hmm if it is an eastern small eyed snake they are DANGEROUSLY VENOMOUS....is it a glossy black colour? also small eyeds only grow max 1metre ...it wouldn't be a tiger would it? or some type of brown? sorry i don't know very much at all about venomous snakes....either way i'de be very carefull when relocating them....*


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## Stormanne (Feb 16, 2008)

Cheers for the info


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## Stormanne (Feb 16, 2008)

They hiss alot but I am able to pick them up by the tail since they are slow moving and put them in a bucket to relocate. We get about one a week in summer under the kennel so we have become familiar with relocating them by hand. It's the quickest without hurting them. Never seen one over 40cm so I agree with the small eye ID.


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## AdhamhRuadh (Feb 16, 2008)

Guess it goes without saying- be very careful moving them by hand as they are fairly dangerous.


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## dazza101 (Feb 16, 2008)

They could be marsh snakes or swamp snakes which are also slightly venomous and they grow to around 40-50 cm.


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## Paliadon (Feb 16, 2008)

Hmmn, small eye, big bite...


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## moloch05 (Feb 16, 2008)

Hello Dazza,

I don't think that it is a Marsh Snake due to the lack of white on the face. Here pics of two Marsh Snakes from Mt. Kiera:










Regards,
David


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## AdhamhRuadh (Feb 16, 2008)

Aswell as the eye lines, I think marsh snakes also have a darker belly.


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## Stormanne (Feb 16, 2008)

Looks like I'll have too review my safety plan for relocating the SES. Thanks for everyones help..Stormanne


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*hmm i just read..that eastern small eyed snakes havea glossy black colour with cream to pale pink belly's sometimes flecked and blotched with black. also it isaid venom toxicity appars to vary geographically, and some populations may be considered dangerous *


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## AdhamhRuadh (Feb 16, 2008)

itbites said:


> *hmm i just read..that eastern small eyed snakes havea glossy black colour with cream to pale pink belly's sometimes flecked and blotched with black. also it isaid venom toxicity appars to vary geographically, and some populations may be considered dangerous *



lol, gotta love "A Complete Field Guide To Reptiles Of Australia" :lol:


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## moloch05 (Feb 16, 2008)

They certainly vary in colour and size by locality. I have seen many here in the Illawarra but none were very large at all. In contrast, those from the Mt. Glorious area (west of Brisbane) are often much larger and the red is more pronounced. Here are a few Small-eyed Snakes from Mt. Glorious area:













Regards,
David


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

KrimenuL said:


> lol, gotta love "A Complete Field Guide To Reptiles Of Australia" :lol:


 

hehe 2nd edition also thanx for those pix david


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## dazza101 (Feb 16, 2008)

Ye Dave I see what you mean. I didnt even enlarge the pic provided. I should have, and then I would have identified it as a small eyed aswell


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## Nephrurus (Feb 16, 2008)

itbites said:


> hmm if it is an eastern small eyed snake they are DANGEROUSLY VENOMOUS....



Why say this?




> sorry i don't know very much at all about venomous snakes........




And then say this?


Small eyed snakes from southern areas in their range are generally very innocuous. Some very large specimens are regarded as dangerously venomous (these tend to be QLD animals). The pictures you've posted look alot like a small eyed snake. They are generally about, but seldom seen. They are nocturnal skink eaters so are seldom seen moving around and are generally encountered at night (on roads) or under cover (tin or even dog kennels!). 

All that being said, be careful relocating/molesting them. Rather than relocating them it might be better to just leave it. A bite could cause an allergic reaction and possible anaphylaxis (sp?). 

-H


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## $NaKe PiMp (Feb 16, 2008)

small eyed


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*Hmmm...i didn't just post those replies on a whim ok, those are facts published in a book to quote "Eastern small eyed snake cryptophis nigrescens TL 500mm (rarely 1m) Glossy black,without pattern. Ventral surfaces cream to pale pink, sometimes flecked and blotchy with black. Ventral pigment is wholly confined to ventral scales (not extending up onto lower flanks) Nasal scale contacts preocular scale. E. coast and ranges,from just w. of Melb, Vic to Cairns, QLD. Habitats inc RF and WSF, woodlands, heaths and rock outcrops. Frequently encountered beneath bark on fallen logs. In addition to skinks and frogs, other snakes (inc it's own kind) are recorded as prey items. Venom toxicity appears to vary geographically, and some pops may be considered DANGEROUSLY VENOMOUS. One recorded fatality. And no i don't know much about elapids ...thats why i have books...to learn LOL (written any books lately?  so i can learn you're theories?) *


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## Nephrurus (Feb 16, 2008)

Why i meant was "don't post on topics you openly admit you've no idea about". 

Nothing is stopping you reading the threads and learning. I understand you want to help Stormanne, but it might be better to leave it to those who can give advice that will mediate damage. Posting "IT'S DANGEROUSLY VENOMOUS" can elicit an irrational response like "off with it's head". 

No offence was intended, but please be aware of the possible repercussions of what you post. 


-H


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*understood Nephrurus  how ever if i wish to post i will,  i don't say i'm an expert... and i really don't feel that my comments alone would cause a massive negative impact on their thoughts toward the snakes (thats why they keep removing them) also they ARE said to be venomous and therefore should be left to professionals to remove. JMO... but thanks for the advice *


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## WombleHerp (Feb 16, 2008)

theres a second edition? :shock:


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## itbites (Feb 16, 2008)

*yes there is  i ordered mine through this site from Jason of reptilepublications and being a APS member you get a 10% discount as well! it's a great book and has been updated to add a further 20 species.*


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## Armand (Feb 16, 2008)

yeh thats defs an easern small eyed snake mate..


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## Stormanne (Feb 18, 2008)

Great to see the intrest among you herps on how to answer an new members question. Too be fair once I had the snake ID I was able to read up on the net and better prepared to deal with them safely, for the snake and us. We welcomed all responses including ibites who was quick to respond. Thanks


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## Ryan93 (Feb 18, 2008)

it looks like a eastern small-eyed snake. they are not a little friendly snake either because we had 1 at midnight on australia day in our house that i had to relocate


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## natrix (Feb 19, 2008)

It's nice to see people that aren't particularly 'snake fans' bothering to check-out what the snake
is & how to relocate it etc ---hats off to you.


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## -Peter (Feb 19, 2008)

Has anyone pointed out its a female yet?


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## wheatus (Feb 19, 2008)

morinin all, 

garanteed it is a small eyed, and just to add to this thread on the topic of venomous, only one person has died, from memory was back in the 60's, but keep in mind (in the NSW licensing system,) whilst the RBBS and all the Hoplocepalus sp. are all class2 catagory 1, the eastern small eyed is class2 catagory2, therefore in with the tigers, death adders, western browns etc... hence they are not a snake to be bitten by. after all they might seem slow but can move very fast when they want and have a tendency to bite repeatedly and go mental once they start.


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