# Gay marraige, Yay or Nay?



## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Just wondering about what people in the comunity think about this issue.


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## Inkslinger (Nov 9, 2007)

I can see no reason why not


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## PhilK (Nov 9, 2007)

As long as I'm not forced to marry a gay man, I also see no reason why not.


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Yea well i agree. Also interested in reasons for ppl that dont agree.


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## spilota_variegata (Nov 9, 2007)

What ever floats your boat. Who am I to decide that other people decide to do


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## RevDaniel (Nov 9, 2007)

Not fussed either way. The way society is going with unfair discrimination it would be best to not discriminate against any gay couple.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

I see no reason why not.

There are a lot of gay couples that wish they could have the same legal rights as straight couples.


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## bump73 (Nov 9, 2007)

all for it...

the more gay guys there are, the more single women available

And i know girls are gay too...But thats hot so it's okay:lol:


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## kelly (Nov 9, 2007)

Nay.
I'm all for gay couples being given the same rights as straight couples, but Marriage is a religious thing and in the eyes of most (if not all) religions, same sex partners are wrong.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

Marriage is not always religious. I do not have a religious bone in my body; and yet I definately plan to marry one day.


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

PhilK said:


> As long as I'm not forced to marry a gay man, I also see no reason why not.



Typical straight male attitude. 'I don't mind if he's gay, as long as he doesn't come on to me'.

And I'm yay for gay marriage, I get what Kelly is saying, but marriage isn't so much of a religious thing anymore. At least not in Australia. Marriage gives financial rights to couples, and I believe anyone should get that regardless of sexual orientation.


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## Whisper2 (Nov 9, 2007)

i have no problem with it.
gay guys are awsome and have great taste lol
people should be who they are, not who others want them to be : )


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## scorps (Nov 9, 2007)

nay


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## Renagade (Nov 9, 2007)

all for it. yay.


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

*Personally* I dont think marrage started as a religious practice some religions just took it on, a good way to have control and make money...I'm sorry if that offends some people it's not meant to. I just see some religions as greedy. *We were all created equqal* so yay for me on gay marrages..


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## Ema86 (Nov 9, 2007)

yay,
each to their own.
We are not in the 1800's so we should not live in the past and base current laws on old beliefs and ideas.

Also, interesting point about the religion/marriage issue, but maybe some gay people also hold some type of religous beliefs, and also people who are not religious still get married but there is no law against them getting married because they don't follow the bible. (I don't know, just a thought)


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## Inkslinger (Nov 9, 2007)

kelly said:


> Nay.
> I'm all for gay couples being given the same rights as straight couples, but Marriage is a religious thing and in the eyes of most (if not all) religions, same sex partners are wrong.



here is one definition
A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: _a same-sex marriage._


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## mrmikk (Nov 9, 2007)

bump73 said:


> all for it...
> 
> the more gay guys there are, the more single women available
> 
> And i know girls are gay too...But thats hot so it's okay:lol:


 
LOL, What a spot on practical assessment of an otherwise ethical minefield.


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

i agree firedragon. the fact that marraige is definatly across all major religions and ALL the religions state the otheres are wrong. Why does the law give special rights to those with faulty beleifs.


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## JoandDrew (Nov 9, 2007)

Im a wedding photographer, and every weekend I go to weddings, and I can assure you that most arent religious, they are purely a promise with a bit of paper work..


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## Inkslinger (Nov 9, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> i agree firedragon. the fact that marraige is definatly across all major religions and ALL the religions state the otheres are wrong. Why does the law give special rights to those with faulty beleifs.




Because religion and law are to different things thats why we can have a civil marriage a non religious one, for those who do not adhere to any religious beliefs.


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## Retic (Nov 9, 2007)

I have been married many years now and I couldn't be any less religious. Whatever turns you on.


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## tfor2 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yeah why not.... You love who you love.. better to do that than marry someone of the opposite sex to keep other people happy, have some kids then loose the plot and come out of the closet & fun off with your boyfriend when you have been married for 10 years ....Like a friend of ours did a couple of years ago... I say live and let live...


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## GSXR_Boy (Nov 9, 2007)

..............


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Ink, gay marraiges are not recognised by the government whether they are religious or civil etc. In a way you could only see the governments stance as that the religious bodies are right, and gay couples should not be supported in the same way straight couples are.


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

I am gay - so you can guess what I voted for 

Glad to see so many people who are supportive!!

Matt


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## MoreliaMatt (Nov 9, 2007)

i say nay... i dont see why they need to get married....

then again i dont see why anyone gay or straight needs to get married.... its just a piece of paper and it makes things difficult if you ever decide to part ways....


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## mertle (Nov 9, 2007)

Yep! each to their own as long as they aren't hurting anyone,

It goes with everything really, the do unto others rule.

I am not into organized religion and am married, it's a union between two people who love each other, doesn't matter who you are.

If you want to bring religion into it some Mormons believe it's ok to marry more than one woman but Christians don't believe that's right, 

so religions really have the wrong end of the stick these days.


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

mblissett, i had no idea. btw i am too.

It is good to see so much support, although i am interested in opinions of those who oppose.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> i say nay... i dont see why they need to get married....
> 
> then again i dont see why anyone gay or straight needs to get married.... its just a piece of paper and it makes things difficult if you ever decide to part ways....


 
So, on that logic, should we ban _all _marriages then?


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## MoreliaMatt (Nov 9, 2007)

Miss B said:


> So, on that logic, should we ban _all _marriages then?



where did i say that?


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## kelly (Nov 9, 2007)

Inkslinger said:


> here is one definition
> A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: _a same-sex marriage._



Here is another:
The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.


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## x_aussie_bloke_x (Nov 9, 2007)

gay .,,,, opps i mean nay


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## SnakeWrangler (Nov 9, 2007)

This will be an interesting thread...


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> mblissett, i had no idea. btw i am too.



Damn it - I am no longer "THE ONLY GAY IN THE VILLAGE"

But then again, I thought I was the only weird one who liked reptiles!


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

SnakeWrangler said:


> This will be an interesting thread...



Until it gets closed :lol:


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> where did i say that?



I get what u mean matt, i think if we had equal rights i would be one of those people who oppose it but we dont which i just thinks sucks to begin with.


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

mblissett said:


> Damn it - I am no longer "THE ONLY GAY IN THE VILLAGE"
> 
> But then again, I thought I was the only weird one who liked reptiles!



What about Gillsy?


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

I am very surprised to see so many "Nay" votes. Are we living in the dark ages? This reminds me of people actually debating whether aboriginals should be able to vote.


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm with you there Jonno. It's a very backward view, and it looks like it will be another ten years or so before anything happens.

It reminds me of those old laws in America, where black people weren't allowed to marry white people.


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## Inkslinger (Nov 9, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> Ink, gay marraiges are not recognised by the government whether they are religious or civil etc. In a way you could only see the governments stance as that the religious bodies are right, and gay couples should not be supported in the same way straight couples are.




They are in SA.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> where did i say that?


 
You said you don't see why gay people need to get married.

Um... maybe because they want to?

So on that logic, maybe all marriages should be banned? No-one really _needs_ to get married, right?

And while we're at it, let's ban the ownership of herps in Australia, we don't _need_ to own herps


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> I am very surprised to see so many "Nay" votes. Are we living in the dark ages? This reminds me of people actually debating whether aboriginals should be able to vote.



Same thing as

Women in the workforce

Women voting

Women getting paid less than Men

People may say this is ridiculous, but at the same rate Gay and Lesbian people are discriminated against, despite how light we make this world 

Oh well, I have support


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## kelly (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay, here's a question for the gays - Why do you want to get married?


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Yea it is interesting Jonno, I think the problem is alot of people still beleive its a choice, and that one day u decide to experiment arround and get hooked on it like a drug (I assume provided by satin). For those who dont know it is NOT A CHOICE. Being gay is somthing u are either born with or develope in your extremely early years.


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

I was interested in this topic, with the upcoming vote..... This is the response I got from Labor - Liberal yet to hear from although I sent the email 2 months ago so no high hopes!!

Dear Matthew,

Thank you for your email message regarding Labor’s policy for gay and lesbian Australians.

The Labor party is committed to equality for gay men, lesbians and same sex couples and, if elected, will remove provisions which discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

That means ending discrimination in the areas of taxation, superannuation, social security benefits, the Medicare Safety Net, immigration, veteran’s entitlements and all other areas (aside from the Marriage Act). All practical, day-to-day discrimination faced by the gay and lesbian communities will be removed from our laws.

At the party's National Conference in May, Labor formally committed to a nationally consistent system of state-based relationship recognition. The scheme will cover a range of non-marital relationships including same-sex relationships, de facto heterosexual relationships and certain carer relationships.

These schemes would simply act as a means by which any de facto couple could register their relationship for the purposes of recognition by government.

Such schemes are not civil unions or gay marriage. There is no ceremony involved, and they would not come under the marriage power in the Constitution, nor affect the definition of marriage in the Marriage Act 1961 as "a voluntary union entered into by a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, for life".

Only a Federal Labor Government can deliver on law reform that allows gay and lesbian individuals to be treated with the same justice and dignity that they not only are entitled to, but that is already afforded to every other member of the community.

Yours Sincerely,

David Bradbury


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

kelly said:


> Okay, here's a question for the gays - Why do you want to get married?



Kelly,

Do you ever want to get married???

You will get equal rights (assuming you are straight yourself) for the rest of your life......

Been in this world myself for 24 years - nothing equal about it!!!

Matt


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## MoreliaMatt (Nov 9, 2007)

Miss B said:


> You said you don't see why gay people need to get married.
> 
> Um... maybe because they want to?
> 
> ...



i said i dont see why anyone has to get married.... not ban all marriages.....

and as for being gay, i do not have anything against it at all, i have several relatives and friends that are gay and its fine, each to their own... 

however its a choice people make, and when they make that choice they know it comes with 'no legal gay marriage in australia"

so whats there to whinge about?

and dont get up me about "its not a choice" everything in life is a choice


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## ccmattyjayde (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm all for gay marriage. 
Why shouldn't they be able to marry?
Its a personal choice, and like someone already said (sorry, forgot who it was lol) its better to marry the person they love, rather than marry the opposite sex, have some kids, freak out then go nuts.. Lol 
I had a massive debate over this topic with a friend a couple of weeks ago haha it ended up with him (the non supporter) going 'oh.... well, yeah I guess you're right..' :lol: 
So yeah anyway, I think its ridiculous for people to be against gay marriage (no offence). Its not hurting anyone, they are happy, they usually stay outta your way, so theres no reason to try and stop them. 
Hopefully I'm making sense :|


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

Tell me about it mate. I'm not gay (I swear!) but I watched a mate come to the realisation that he was when we were in high school. The hell he went through with his family and mates was pretty intense, and reinforced the fact that being gay definitely is not a choice.


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## Recharge (Nov 9, 2007)

kelly said:


> Nay.
> I'm all for gay couples being given the same rights as straight couples, but Marriage is a religious thing and in the eyes of most (if not all) religions, same sex partners are wrong.



paring off for life was around LONG before religion was, so bugger them.

there's NO good reason not to allow it.
I'm surprised at you kelly.. and your leading questions thus far



MoreliaMatt said:


> and dont get up me about "its not a choice" everything in life is a choice



really? you chose to be a man then? 

sorry, it's NOT a choice what sex you are attracted too...


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## da_donkey (Nov 9, 2007)

I support gay marraiges......but only if both chicks are hot.


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## Veredus (Nov 9, 2007)

THe reigion argument doesn't really work considering marriage ceremonies have been around since a long time before modern religion even existed. I believe it was the ancient egyptians who concieved of the wedding ring. Furthermore, the argument is not whether or not people need to get married but rather if they would like to or not. I think it would be nice to see everyone with the same rights to choose as anybody else. Stating that any particular group of people doesn't need to get married is like saying that indigenous Australians don't NEED to vote, its simply discriminatory to deny a person the choice.


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## kelly (Nov 9, 2007)

mblissett said:


> Kelly,
> 
> Do you ever want to get married???
> 
> ...



No, I don't want to get married.
I believe that marriage is a religious institution and I am not religious.

I mean sure, I'll probably have a huge wedding and stuff, but only so I can wear the big white dress.


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Kelly i really think until gay people are given the same rights as others they will never be taken seriosuly as a normal facit of our society. Also marraige shows that a relationship is serious, not somthing that can be abused. Beleive it or not i dont want to just sleep arround with random men i would like the oportunity to settle down and have everyone know where in it till the end.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> however its a choice people make, and when they make that choice they know it comes with 'no legal gay marriage in australia"


 
Ummmmmmmmmmmm... being gay is a choice people make? :shock: :|


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## mertle (Nov 9, 2007)

I Just don't get it!!

How can anyone think they have the right to tell someone what they can and can't do when it comes to two consenting adults??

"why would a gay couple want to marry?"

Because like any straight couple they too have feelings of love and companionship, 

who are you, the naysayers, to tell someone else what they should and shouldn't be doing in their own lives??

mmmm I thought we wre civilized?????:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> i agree firedragon. the fact that marraige is definatly across all major religions and ALL the religions state the otheres are wrong. Why does the law give special rights to those with faulty beleifs.


 
Religion was created by man (humans are faulty) and religion dominated in the early days and created alot of laws, it had a big influence on how kings and queens and others ruled. The king, queen, ruler never really had true control, they were really just a face to the people, the advisors behind the sceins manipulated everything to have what they wanted. How do we really know the gods disaprove of homosexuality when there has only been the word of man and no proof of what god really likes or dislikes. Some of the greatest artists, musicians and actors were and are gay so if it was so bad why would god give them such awsome talent.


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## Miss B (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm sorry MoreliaMatt, but everything in life is not a choice.

Did you choose to be born male? Didn't think so.


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## da_donkey (Nov 9, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I support gay marraiges......but only if both chicks are hot.


 

hot like kelly


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

kelly said:


> I mean sure, I'll probably have a huge wedding and stuff, but only so I can wear the big white dress.



CAN I BORROW YOUR DRESS???? Or be your brides maid - OH btw I am sure Grimbeny and I can pick out the best stripper for your Hen's night!!

Matt


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## Radar (Nov 9, 2007)

Wow, we've somehow managed to offend every minority _except_ muslims. :lol:


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## Renagade (Nov 9, 2007)

i am gay, the only difference it makes to me is if i die my de facto doesn't automatically inherit my super as what would happen in a straight relationship. i can declare this in my will tho. also, if i choose to have a child, i could rought the system and claim single parent income, or... i can get her (my partoner's) name on the birth cert legally. it is tho, much harder for us to get a morgage without being married. i really have no interest in a piece of paper declaring my love for anyone, especially from a church. that's my personally opinion for myself. i do believe that any person should be able to marry whoever they would like.... and john howard should burn in hell.


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## MoreliaMatt (Nov 9, 2007)

rednut said:


> Wow, we've somehow managed to offend every minority _except_ muslims. :lol:





a thread like this will always do that.....

everyone has their own opinions and and everyone is entitled to them.....


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## method (Nov 9, 2007)

yay

I have, lets say an uncle who is gay. N i consider them both to be my uncles.

So meh, if your against it its pretty simple what it is. *Prejudice.*


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## spilota_variegata (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm going to sound like a real bigot here... At what age can you accurately decided your sexuality? I see people 15 and 16 years old stating they are gay.. Nothing against them, I have the greatest respect for anyone that age that can take a stand against convention, but at 16 I was barely able to decided whether I should shave or not


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

i've heard of kids as young as 4 & 5 feeling different they're too young to know why, i dont think theres a specifec age


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## mertle (Nov 9, 2007)

I think it's decided at conception

Would you "Decide" to go through the hell that most gay people go through???

They are just like you and me, there is no decision about what sexuality they are, 

ohh hang on! I might get a divorce and go get myself a girlfriend!!! mmmmmmmm??????


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

WOW there are more gay people on this site than I thought.

As you would all know so am I, I'm proud to be who I am and wouldn't change it for the world. 

At the same time I love mardi gras, but its now a big party.. There is no reason to parade our sexuality anymore. 

I don't personally have any thoughts of marriage, if someone wants to do it great. But I don't feel passionate about it either way. 

I feel the same way about gay parents, i personally couldn't put a child through life with gay parents, as it would be extremely hard for them.. However again i don't support it and I wouldn't stop other people doing it.

I think we need to have a gay aps night. PM me if your interested.

This thread can get out of control if we let it. Please keep all comments clean there is no need to be homophobic or rude. 

And people have rights to say nay without being yelled at. This is the point of the thread to get people's opinions.

I have two nieces who have known since they were about 7 I was gay, maybe didn't know what it was but they knew my de facto and also called him uncle. 

They have met several boyfriends, and also get upset when i brake up with them. 

So yeah, keep it clean and constructive. Its interesting to hear people's thoughts.

Kelly a little suprised by some of your comments.


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## slim6y (Nov 9, 2007)

So long it aint with me - i don't mind.

Personally lesbian relationships do nothing for me - it's just two girls I'm never going to have


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## kandi (Nov 9, 2007)

i believe in it is free world to treat people as you would like to be treated,the freedom of speech etc etc but with marriage there is usually a product of marriage and that is children, educate me on how would these children grow up besides being harassed at school because there parents are not the standard couple. i ask this question because i would like to know, better to understand than to judge.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Nov 9, 2007)

If they are happy to wed one and other then so be it it's thier right and choice to do so... Good on them!!!


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 9, 2007)

i voted nay... but not because I have a prejudice against gay people. Until I moved in with my missus 2 years ago, I lived with a friend of mine who was gay, and it didn't bother me one bit.

Probably the reson that I voted nay is becuase I simply don't see a need for _any_ kind of marriage. My missus and I have been together for 2 and a half years, living together for 2... what's the point of spending thousands of dollars on an extravagant ceremony to get a piece of paper? At the end of the day, if she decided to leave me, she still gets half my stuff anyway.

We both love each other and both don't really see the need for some pretentious ceremony to declare to the rest of the world how we feel about each other. Personally i believe marriage complicates matters. I have an actual list of friends of mine, 8 names deep, who have been in long term relationships (i'm talking 8+ years) who were happy as larry, and then got married and split up a few months later.

If you're gay, you're gay. I don't necessarily believe it's a _choice_ that people have the luxury of making, as I've seen first hand how difficult intolerant people can make things for gays.


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## dickyknee (Nov 9, 2007)

I personally have no problems with what any one does , as long as they are happy then good for them .....


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 9, 2007)

and really? people are actually _surprised_ at kelly's comments?


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

kandi said:


> i believe in it is free world to treat people as you would like to be treated,the freedom of speech etc etc but with marriage there is usually a product of marriage and that is children, educate me on how would these children grow up besides being harassed at school because there parents are not the standard couple. i ask this question because i would like to know, better to understand than to judge.


 

I agree with you Kandi, thats why I would never have children. As much as I would love to.

However I would never impose my thoughts on someone else, if it makes them happy go for it.


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## mertle (Nov 9, 2007)

My husband and I were together for 10 years before getting married, it just made us feel more connected in some way, I love it, it will be 2 years in Feb and if a gay couple would like that feeling then good on them!!!

And , no, a product of marriage isn't always children, i know of many straight married couples that never had children.


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## Retic (Nov 9, 2007)

It's hard to believe it is 2007. 



Jonno from ERD said:


> I am very surprised to see so many "Nay" votes. Are we living in the dark ages? This reminds me of people actually debating whether aboriginals should be able to vote.


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

kandi said:


> i believe in it is free world to treat people as you would like to be treated,the freedom of speech etc etc but with marriage there is usually a product of marriage and that is children, educate me on how would these children grow up besides being harassed at school because there parents are not the standard couple. i ask this question because i would like to know, better to understand than to judge.


 

G'day Kandi,

First of all, marriage and having children are two different things. Lots of have people have done one without doing the other, it's quite common.

Second of all, how is it any different to kids copping a ribbing about their parents being fat, hairy, asian, black, disabled, overprotective or driving a Volvo? Kids are going to cop a bit of crap at school no matter what.


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Second of all, how is it any different to kids copping a ribbing about their parents being fat, hairy, asian, black, disabled, overprotective or driving a Volvo? Kids are going to cop a bit of crap at school no matter what.



It really sucked having a parent with a volvo.


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

kandi said:


> i believe in it is free world to treat people as you would like to be treated,the freedom of speech etc etc but with marriage there is usually a product of marriage and that is children, educate me on how would these children grow up besides being harassed at school because there parents are not the standard couple. i ask this question because i would like to know, better to understand than to judge.


 
These days there are plenty of children being born out of marrage.. I believe it's not entirety the kids fault as to why they tease and harasse it's the parents for teaching them to judge and discriminate, and as i have noticed working with kids, mean kids usually tease anyone thats different not just kids of gay parents. I know a few gay couples and there kids are wonderful and no different to kids from a hetrosexual marrage or relationship


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

Tell me about it mate, my old man was fat AND hairy, I copped it twice as much as most.


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day Kandi,
> 
> First of all, marriage and having children are two different things. Lots of have people have done one without doing the other, it's quite common.
> 
> Second of all, how is it any different to kids copping a ribbing about their parents being fat, hairy, asian, black, disabled, overprotective or driving a Volvo? Kids are going to cop a bit of crap at school no matter what.


 

Yes but a child's parents driving a volvo wont cause issues with the P&C and other parents being small minded and pathetic about not letting their kids play with the gay parented kid.

Kids will also tease and be teased, but once gay parents come into the scene, it goes all the way up to mum and dad.

I didn't say that very well, but you get my gist.


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## falconboy (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> I think we need to have a gay aps night. PM me if your interested.



Isn't that descrimination against us straights? :lol: I can imagine if I piped up and said 'Lets have a straight APS night' :lol::lol: LOL

I will say I'm surprised and pleased that so many of you are game enough, on a herp forum of all places, with its fair share of rednecks, to publically announce your homosexuality. Good on you. 

However, I can't quite understand how anyone can resist a hot long haired blonde 18 yr old girl in a short skirt. :lol: Yummo.


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

falconboy said:


> Isn't that descrimination against us straights? :lol: I can imagine if I piped up and said 'Lets have a straight APS night' :lol::lol: LOL
> 
> I will say I'm surprised and pleased that so many of you are game enough, on a herp forum of all places, with its fair share of rednecks, to publically announce your homosexuality. Good on you.
> 
> However, I can't quite understand how anyone can resist a hot long haired blonde 18 yr old girl in a short skirt. :lol:


 

Why should I worry, I'm on the committee of two herp societies, a mod on this. 

All these people know i'm gay. Most of my straight friends are from the herp community. 

I have never had any anomosity from the herp community except one, and he was in chat. 

Only every saw him once.


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

I don't know how you can go past an AFL player,


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

falconboy said:


> Isn't that descrimination against us straights? :lol: I can imagine if I piped up and said 'Lets have a straight APS night' :lol::lol: LOL
> 
> I will say I'm surprised and pleased that so many of you are game enough, on a herp forum of all places, with its fair share of rednecks, to publically announce your homosexuality. Good on you.
> 
> However, I can't quite understand how anyone can resist a hot long haired blonde 18 yr old girl in a short skirt. :lol:



LMAO - I knew that would be in there hehehehe....

Rednecks - have not met anyone on here that is a redneck - yet lol 
I have been out of the closet for 7 years now...... No way I am jumping back in anytime soon..... people try to push you back in - just makes me act more flamboyant!!

Personally I can't quite understand how anyone can resist a hot blonde 20something yr old guy without a shirt in a fireman outfit!!!! lol


----------



## falconboy (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> Why should I worry, I'm on the committee of two herp societies, a mod on this.
> 
> All these people know i'm gay. Most of my straight friends are from the herp community.
> 
> ...




Thats good to hear.


----------



## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Tell me about it mate, my old man was fat AND hairy, I copped it twice as much as most.



But he wasn't a volvo driver! it's a whole different league.



gillsy said:


> Yes but a child's parents driving a volvo wont cause issues with the P&C



How many parents are actually involved in that kind of thing? Mine both worked, never went to meetings, never helped in the canteen.. any of that sort of stuff. And I'm no worse off for it.


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> Yes but a child's parents driving a volvo wont cause issues with the P&C and other parents being small minded and pathetic about not letting their kids play with the gay parented kid.
> 
> Kids will also tease and be teased, but once gay parents come into the scene, it goes all the way up to mum and dad.
> 
> I didn't say that very well, but you get my gist.


 
G'day mate,

I know what you are saying, but I wouldn't see it as the catalyst for a gay couple not having children. There are several circumstances where parents become involved. I remember when I was a kid, a mate wasn't allowed to ride his bike down a certain street because aboriginals lived there. You'll get small minded, ignorant people everywhere (there's over 20 in this thread!) but letting them influence life-changing decisions is only letting them win.


----------



## falconboy (Nov 9, 2007)

mblissett said:


> Personally I can't quite understand how anyone can resist a hot blonde 20something yr old guy without a shirt in a fireman outfit!!!! lol



I'm trying not to picture that, I just ate. :lol:


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## Saz (Nov 9, 2007)

Of course it should be made legal. It's ridiculous that it isn't already. 

I haven't seen one decent argument as to why not, I was thinking about countering all the 'nays', but I don't have the energy.

I will say though that plenty of people marry without procreating, and unfortunately a lot of people that should never be allowed to pass on their genes pop offspring out like a tennis ball machine. Go figure.


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

I was married once complete waste of time and money. Was a good day though, got to see some family i hadn't seen in ages


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## falconboy (Nov 9, 2007)

Saz said:


> I will say though that plenty of people marry without procreating, and unfortunately a lot of people that should never be allowed to pass on their genes pop offspring out like a tennis ball machine. Go figure.



Well said - I've been engaged to a female for 8 years (can't you tell we are in a hurry) and I couldn't think of anything worse than having ankle biters.


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> I don't know how you can go past an AFL player,
> 
> Tall toned and OMG the arms.



Rafael Nadal pwns any AFL player.


----------



## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

you know the funniest thing of all.......

I got my mum hooked on this thread - now everytime I laugh she comes in 


What did they say, what did they say lmao


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## Saz (Nov 9, 2007)

LMAO!! We have been for 12 years...soooooo can't be bothered with it, but people are really hassling us now, so we'll have to get it over with at some point.




falconboy said:


> Well said - I've been engaged to a female for 8 years (can't you tell we are in a hurry) and I couldn't think of anything worse than having ankle biters.


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## Recharge (Nov 9, 2007)

recharge said:


> yea, cause children otherwise don't get picked on right? not for being a different colour or inter racial parents or being fat or skinny or bad at sports or anything else.. right? right?
> 
> it's one of the biggest fluff arguments I've seen thus far in the anti gay parent threads I've been in.
> 
> ...


 








I don't see how that is Recharge, in the cities maybe. But there is still a very high percentage of homophobia. 

And really I don't see how your qualified to answer on the behalf of society. 

Oxford street, the gayest street in Australia, and very close to the world. We still have weekly gay bashings. How can this be tolerent.


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## falconboy (Nov 9, 2007)

Saz said:


> LMAO!! We have been for 12 years...soooooo can't be bothered with it, but people are really hassling us now, so we'll have to get it over with at some point.



Problem is mate, instead of being asked my our parents 'when are you getting married?' all the time, it will be 'when are you having kids?'. I fix that one - I just say to my parents 'before you die - when are you going to die?' LOL :lol:


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## Saz (Nov 9, 2007)

Kids are insecure, hense they feel the need to 'bully' others to ensure that there are others lower in the 'food chain'. Therefore they will find something to pick on. If you bring your child up to be confident and understanding, you're not going to have a problem. 

LOL Falconboy! I've copped my fair share of "where are my grandchildren??" lectures, at which point I usually whip out a snake.


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## Bung-Eye (Nov 9, 2007)

100th post!


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

And in gay parents, the kids are the ones that usually see past it and don't care.

Its parents of the kids that are normally the worse culprits, they've already learned the homophobia, kids can grow out of it.


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## Lozza (Nov 9, 2007)

Saz said:


> unfortunately a lot of people that should never be allowed to pass on their genes pop offspring out like a tennis ball machine. Go figure.


 
lmao :lol: soooo true :lol::lol::lol:

A kid will flourish in a safe loving family environment regardless of what sex their parents are. Think of how many straight people neglect and abuse their kids. I know which I'd prefer to have as a parent.
I dont think kids with gay parents would cop that much these days, things are slowly changing for the better. 
Like others have said, if its not that, its something else like fat hairyness or volvo drivers :lol:

I vote yay to gay marriage & parenting


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Lol wow, i went to diner and the thread has really grown. I beleive the gay marraige vs gay parenting argument as completly seperate. I am not certain that bringing up a child in a gay relationship is the right thing to do but i have definatly never heard any real evidence to suggest it is wrong. I know of atleast 3 people who have grown up with complete lesbian parents (ie they never knew their father who was just a donator). People will say that its different with lesbian parents becaus generally they are more accepted by society which is probably true. However i hope this changes in the near future. 

Lol I only told people on the forum as of yesterday but really i dont care for people I dont even know who discriminate against gays so if people have a problem they can do whatever (Which to be honest I have never been prejudised against to the face). Im not completly out of the closet, my family still dont know, uni friends dont know, most people from my school know.

ps-im up for an APS gay night :wink: lol


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## salebrosus (Nov 9, 2007)

Nay

Simone


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

Y Simone.


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## Clairebear (Nov 9, 2007)

I find it hard to believe we're in 2007 and this attitude is still out there. For those who voted nay because they don't see the point in marriage, would you let your anti-marriage beliefs affect gay people that want to get married? Just because YOU don't see the point? As numerous other have said would you ban ALL marriages? if you answered NO to that, then you should certainly not think gay people should be deprived of a right you let your normal mates have. The sooner the government makes it legal the sooner that attitude can be countered properly. Grrrrrrrrrrr.... 

And as for snake loving gay men... well come on... it is kinda phallic  (i get teased all the time cause i'm a straight chick with 9 phallic symbols in cages!)


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## HoffOff (Nov 9, 2007)

I voted Nay Because I really don't see the Point in getting Married at all


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## sockbat (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm all for it, Why should it only be the straights that have too suffer.lol


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Thinking about it now i wish i put "I dont see the point of marraige" as an option as it appears to be scewing the results in the homophobics favour even though this is probably not an ideal you actually hold.


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

it would be nice to see gay ppl have the same rights as straight ppl, its not fair too that a gay couple can be together for 10 years and not have the same rights as a straight couple who have been together for 10 years. eg defacto.
theres still a long way to go for gay couples, i hope its in my lifetime that its just accepted and not spoken about...just equal.no lables....that would be cool.


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## SwedishRodeo (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm by no means homophobic, but I can see why some people don't believe in Gay Marriage. 

Marriage, going back as far as civilized society has existed, is a traditionally religious event*. It's the union of a man and woman under the eyes of god. How can something be sanctioned such as Gay Marriage, when the foundations of the core principal are an extension of a homophobic belief system?

Sure, it's safe to say a lot of Anglo Saxon couples don't actively believe marriage is a religious event anymore, but a lot of other civilizations still see it as a holy event.

My point is, while gay people have every right to live their lives the way they choose, is it justifiable that they do not have the right to be bound under the eyes of god?

THAT SAID, the anti homosexual stuff in the bible was all old testament, from memory - and who really reads the old one anyway??

God, assuming he exists, would love all his Children regardless of the lives they lead. Or at least, he should.

We're so quick to assume we're so evolved, tolerant and enlightened - yet bigotry, xenophobia and ignorance plagues a good portion of the human race.

Who are you to cast judgment on others for how they live their lives. those of you who don't believe that Gay people have the same rights as you?

* whoops typo >_<


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 9, 2007)

Everyone playing the religous card - many things in everyday society stem from some form of religion, but most have absolutely nothing to do with it any more. Easter is about chocolate, Christmas is about presents and marriage is about two people who want to spend their lives together. Personally, I think marriage is ridiculous, but I don't see why gay people shouldn't be able to make the same stupid mistakes as straight people...and God has nothing to do with it!


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

Please keep indepth religion talk out of it, its a long dark windy road.

People have rights to their opinioins as far as i'm concerned, i think nothing different if people are homophobic. 

It's there problem not mine.


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## zulu (Nov 9, 2007)

*re Yay*

Helps if you marry a woman LOL its a fundamental pillar of society and you really understand it when youve been married and have a family,i like to have kids running around.


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

I think its more about the rights that marrage gives, not the cermony.
I know a few gay couples that have married but it doesnt mean anything to the law,,if one of them dies it doesnt go straight to the partner unless stated in the will...things like that.


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## grimbeny (Nov 9, 2007)

Also that will can be contested by the family as they are legally the next of kin.


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## PhilK (Nov 9, 2007)

thenothing said:


> Typical straight male attitude. 'I don't mind if he's gay, as long as he doesn't come on to me'.
> 
> And I'm yay for gay marriage, I get what Kelly is saying, but marriage isn't so much of a religious thing anymore. At least not in Australia. Marriage gives financial rights to couples, and I believe anyone should get that regardless of sexual orientation.


 
Firstly, I've been hit on more than once and dealt with it very well thank you. We have a gay mate who is constantly making us uncomfortable for a laugh, but its OK because we pay him out for being gay. So I'm not homophobic if that's what you meant.

And I agree that marriage is no longer religious. Plus who said because religion said it's wrong that is fact? Religion is right about very few things.. and nothing that can be proved!


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## Recharge (Nov 9, 2007)

even if it IS stated in the will, the family can EASILY contest it and win.


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

Firstly, I've been hit on more than once and dealt with it very well thank you
Philk, Maybe your going to the wrong night clubs LOL


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## gail_mac (Nov 9, 2007)

I have no judgement to make & no right to make a judgement on something Ill never no or understand properly because Im not gay......Each to there own I say.

Unless you walk in someones shoes you'll never know what its like.....


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

Oskorei said:


> *Leviticus 18:22*




Can i laugh any harder????


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## Hetty (Nov 9, 2007)

Oskorei said:


> What?


----------



## bredli84 (Nov 9, 2007)

i voted "yay".
i dont see how gay marriage could adversely effect anyone else, therefore i see no good reason to deny them the rights that heterosexuals take for granted.
it is that simple.


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## Oskorei (Nov 9, 2007)

even god says no.. and he is the king pin of everything apparently


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## Radar (Nov 9, 2007)

Recharge said:


> I don't see how that is Recharge, in the cities maybe. But there is still a very high percentage of homophobia.
> 
> And really I don't see how your qualified to answer on the behalf of society.
> 
> Oxford street, the gayest street in Australia, and very close to the world. We still have weekly gay bashings. How can this be tolerent.


 

What, recharge is arguing with himself now? Damn, someone give the boy a point of view already :lol:


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

Oskorei said:


> even god says no.. and he is the king pin of everything apparently


 
How do you know god says no, cause some humans many years ago claimed god spoke to them and said it was i think they just ate a "bad" mushroom.


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

i reckon god is a beautiful lesbian anyways 

kidding - personally i think something is out there but dunno what and religion is supposed to be out of this atm


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

Is the "except on some occasions" for the bi-sexual... I think darwin was secretly gay "sometimes"


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

I once saw a doco on gay animals....... they didnt seem evil to me... esp cute little gay swan, he was cool...


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## ari (Nov 9, 2007)

Extremelly strange & controversial topic. However anybody who even contemplated using religion as a Nay is so so so wrong........everyone sins even the really religious fanatics. Many people who get married breakup which in its self is a sin if the church has anything to do with it. The most pathetic thing about religion is that people sin go to church and ask for forgiveness & then pathetically go and sin again the next day, or a few days after.....its a cycle......hey I am extremelly religous & so is my family....but we sin all the time.

Whether you are gay, lesbian, transgender or a moraphoradite.....go on get married if you wish.......I understand the reason is based on principals & not to discriminated against & agree whole heartedly with the decision. Besides if you think about it who gives little men in the "little boys club" the rights to decide whats legal & whats not..........and what others can do.........its suppose to be a democracy.

Anyway my thoughts only but if you do decide to marry make sure its for the right reasons & not for money.


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## gillsy (Nov 9, 2007)

There are several cases of reported gay penguins


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## Oskorei (Nov 9, 2007)

yeah and for the "i am confused" types

and now i am getting threatened with hand bag (or is it man bag) beatings


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## bredli84 (Nov 9, 2007)

mich1 said:


> I once saw a doco on gay animals....... they didnt seem evil to me... esp cute little gay swan, he was cool...



that was a disney movie


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

wow pretty graphic for disney then....whats the world coming to!
good ol Walt was meant to be a pervert though..


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

Oskorei said:


> yeah and for the "i am confused" types
> 
> and now i am getting threatened with hand bag (or is it man bag) beatings


 
I don't threaten with handbags (I have a manbag) 

and it carries all my stuff!!!! I love it


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## Oskorei (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> There are several cases of reported gay penguins




anyways thought pengiuns were gay


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## firedragon (Nov 9, 2007)

gillsy said:


> There are several cases of reported gay penguins


yes i'm one of them


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## ari (Nov 9, 2007)

Homophobia ROCKS.............its the best way of in-directly seeing how a person really feels, meaning "I wanna try". The thought that a gay guy or girl cracks onto anything of the same sex is such a lame & pathetic thinking pattern..........really pathetic if people think that.


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## ari (Nov 9, 2007)

Hey mblissett didn't I see you in a drag show at the casino??LOL


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## mblissett (Nov 9, 2007)

ari said:


> Hey mblissett didn't I see you in a drag show at the casino??LOL



Yeah u were up on stage with me lol


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## moosenoose (Nov 9, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> mblissett, i had no idea. btw i am too.



Get with the program Grim! God, that's old news! :lol:

I'm leaning to nay...maybe because in some strange way I'm a traditionalist. I haven't one homophobic bone in my body and have had, and have, plenty of gay friends (FRIENDS OKAYS!!! :lol

I think perhaps if it all boils down to people being happy...I sort of don't care what happens. I wouldn't cast my son aside if he turned out to be gay, I'd stand by him no matter what! 

Call me fence sitter :lol:


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## ari (Nov 9, 2007)

mblissett said:


> Yeah u were up on stage with me lol



**** I forgot completely all about that, was I wearing fishnet stockings & stellettos...LOL

I am extremelly open minded & know what alot of gay people go through from back in the days as a councillor.


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

well....hopefully one day ppl will look back through history at all the jokes and discrimination aimed at gay ppl.
the same way most of us look back at segregation,slavery,black face minstrels, womens rights etc....with shock that society was so cruel and ignorant.


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## Oskorei (Nov 9, 2007)

we need to go back to the good old days
the world has gone stupid with all the hippys and gays around

cant even give your kid a good hit these days without getting crucified!


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## GrumpyTheSnake (Nov 9, 2007)

Wow... what a thread!!

I vote YAY!!!! Who the hell are we to tell a *human being* that they should not marry the one person/soul they truly love and want to spend the rest of their life with?? If we want to make this about tradition and religion.. then no woman should be allowed to marry unless they are a virgin, and no woman shall get married in anything other than *white*!! 

As for the kids... they're more stable than most adults when it comes to this. Most of them have grown up with "gay" being just another normal part of life. I have many friends who are gay, and my sister is too. My niece is perfectly normal and doesn't see a problem with two mums... and she know and sees her father. I have male gay friends who have a son. This young man is 14 and very much into girls, even though he has two dads. He has managed to survive primary and high school without getting beaten up or anything. He is quite mature about the whole thing, if someone says anything to him, he simply says.."well I'm just lucky.. I have two Dads, you're just jealous cause you only have one!"

If only we could learn from our children.. give them a little more credit. They're tougher than we think. If a child can understand and accept a gay marriage.. then why the hell can't *we* as adults!!


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## Adzo (Nov 9, 2007)

Oskorei said:


> we need to go back to the good old days
> the world has gone stupid with all the hippys and gays around
> 
> cant even give your kid a good hit these days without getting crucified!



Yep, thats definitely the fault of gays.


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## moosenoose (Nov 9, 2007)

GrumpyTheSnake said:


> Wow... what a thread!!
> 
> I vote YAY!!!! Who the hell are we to tell a *human being* that they should not marry the one person/soul they truly love and want to spend the rest of their life with?? If we want to make this about tradition and religion.. then no woman should be allowed to marry unless they are a virgin, and no woman shall get married in anything other than *white*!!
> 
> ...



It's because of Kevin Rudd that's why Grumpy :lol: That dumbass!!! :lol:


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## mich1 (Nov 9, 2007)

wasnt it some of the hippys that came up with the electric sound?
id give anything to see a death metal band strumming on bush band acoustic guitars LOL yoddeling


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## FAY (Nov 10, 2007)

In this world when one human being can be so cruel,disgusting etc etc to another human being, if two people love each other and want to show it..whether it be same sex couple or whatever...who cares!!!!

Make love not War I say !!!!


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## reece89 (Nov 10, 2007)

nay its feral 2 men umm yer..... ladies its ok but men yuck =D ill probly get the piss takin outa me for this!!
but i say no to gay marriage in australia.......and i dont reckon gays should me allowed to adopt either.....poor kids will get teased and be confused.


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

and what evidence do you have to support that?


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## reece89 (Nov 10, 2007)

trust me a kid will get teased if both his parents are male not that i know im proud to say my whole familly is straight wat gays do gays do, im just sayin they shouldnt make it public with kids watching it will confuse the hell out off them. lets face it gays will never be excepted no matter what im sure they're nice people just in most people eyes different from everyone else.


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

lol yea, right. have to totally disagree with you there.
it will and is now being accepted more every day.

and kids are not confused by it, it's so prevelant in society as it is, I dont' see how exactly you believe they way you do


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 10, 2007)

i TOTALLY believe in gay marriage

as long as BOTH THE CHICKS ARE HOT


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## reece89 (Nov 10, 2007)

PiMp said:


> i TOTALLY believe in gay marriage
> 
> as long as BOTH THE CHICKS ARE HOT


 
i agree %110 bahahaha lesbians are cool:lol: they make awsome dvds =D.


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## bredli84 (Nov 10, 2007)

reece89 said:


> trust me a kid will get teased if both his parents are male not that i know im proud to say my whole familly is straight wat gays do gays do, im just sayin they shouldnt make it public with kids watching it will confuse the hell out off them. lets face it gays will never be excepted no matter what im sure they're nice people just in most people eyes different from everyone else.



im not so sure about that, when i was in high school i knew of at least 5 students who were openly bi, gay or lesbian. none at any point t (that i know of) were teased more than any other student. i would think it would matter even less if the parents were known to be a same sex couple.


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## GrumpyTheSnake (Nov 10, 2007)

Grow up Reece..


> ...they make awsome dvds....


keep on track mate. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.. but keep your mind out of the gutter


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 10, 2007)

if i was a kid and had a freind who had gay mums,
aslong as they wernt bull dykes but like hot lipstick lezzos
i dont think they would be disadvantaged at all cause we would wanna go hang at there house LOL


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

Lol...

It's an issue on which I'm very torn, because, yes, I believe that everybody should be entitled to life in all its fullness, however, as someone mentioned, marriage (as we know it today) was conceived as a spiritual union of two people in the eyes of God.

I'm not saying that I know exactly of what God does and does not approve, but I can sure say that many many people who claim to be His buddies are strongly against it, and are likely to be offended by the notion.

The question that you have to ask is: is it the responsibility of the couple to refrain from causing offence to those around them, or the responsibility of the people around them to be tolerant ?

Just as someone is entitled to their beliefs, just as someone else is entitled to be utterly disgusted by them. I think it's an issue that will progress very slowly, but will eventually be allowed, whether it's a good idea or not.

I personally have been influenced culturally to be somewhat put off by gay couples, however this is not a consciously prejudiced opinion on my part, it's simply the way I've been brought up.

After all is said and done, however, I believe that: a) just because I believe something doesn't make it right b) some people really want gay marriage c) everyone is entitled to life in all its fullness.

So, after all that, I'd have to say that I am not necessarily campaigning for it, however I am certainly not campaigning against it. I cannot say for sure whether it is a progressive step, and it is certainly *not* a black and white issue. Many many shades of grey, hence the vague nature of my response.


----------



## Miss B (Nov 10, 2007)

^ You are very switched-on compared to some of the other teens that have posted in this thread! Good work.


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## Erin_Jane (Nov 10, 2007)

bump73 said:


> all for it...
> 
> the more gay guys there are, the more single women available
> 
> And i know girls are gay too...But thats hot so it's okay:lol:


 
You don't need single women Benjamin!! It's our anniversary on Monday damnit!!!


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## Miss B (Nov 10, 2007)

^ Hahaha PWNED


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

Miss B said:


> ^ You are very switched-on compared to some of the other teens that have posted in this thread! Good work.



Thanks, I try ^_^


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

i TOTALLY believe in gay marriage too

im gay and i dont choose who to be with and feel attracted too,and marraige is a speical thing were too people make a bond/just a bit of paper,doesnt matter if its 2 men or 2 girls or 1 man and 1 female

why should stright people have more right then us gay people?? they shouldnt.
everyone should have the right to get marryed to who they love most and be happy
just me 2cents


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

and yes im 16 and young and all that,but i just know! some people can work out there gay at a young age


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## ari (Nov 10, 2007)

reptilegirl_jordan said:


> and yes im 16 and young and all that,but i just know! some people can work out there gay at a young age



This is indeed a true fact, strange you know from councilling many different individuals about 5 years ago, including homosexuals & heterosexuals it is most apparent that most gay indivduals new they were different at a very young age, but at that young age were unable to determine what it actually was. Generally years prior to puberty it was known. This determination gave me the impression years before it was even announced that homosexuality is not chosen, but it is apparent in the DNA structure at the time of birth & insome instances can have a genetic link but skip many families. Basically say is that homosexuals are born homosexuals & have the DNA structure that makes them attracted to the same sex. Bisexuality is a difficult one to interpret but I believe many may choose that way of life due to lack of finding a partner, or for natural sexual needs.

What I am getting at is that from councilling numerous individuals, and I mean numerous individuals it seemed that homosexuals would be more inclined to seek councilling or social support due to mental health issues over heterosexuals which was caused by society and not being except or due to constant discrimation, verbal abuse, bashings & ridicule. This being said homosexuals can not be blamed for being homosexuals as they are born that way, which means when you are putting someone down for being gay its really quite upsetting as they can't do anything to change it....its in their makeup.

I recall once one particular individual who at the time was 25 yrs of age, who during high school years in a regional school was torment that much and ridiculed by peers due to their homosexuality that it affected them mentally into adulthood. Made them antisocial & hated mixing with other people. This individual was kicked, spat at, tormented & verbally & physically abuse nearly every day during their school life to the point that they could hardly take it anymore. What a life, and what a sheer nightmare for that individual and they couldn't mention anything to their parents because of the unknown, i.e. being disowned or kicked out of home.

So I hope this gives those individuals who don't really understand or know much about homosexuality abut of insight into what most if not all have had to enjore through their lifes.

I read a post back a few pages about how the world is mixed up by the gays & hippies. The strangest thing is that back then in the 60s & 70s there was just as many homosexuals but most were closeted to protect themselves from ridicule.

Yes being a religous fello I understand what the bible says & what the church has to say about homosexuality and how it is a sin, but hey tell me one single individual who has never commit a sin at sometime in their life. We all commit sin most days, so for the church to out law and dam homosexuality lets see if they can all stop sinning and see how hard it is for them. 

I remember as a child my mother used to go to church 2-3 times a week to be cleansed free from the sins she had committed over the days & weeks, as do most church goers. I remember saying to her as a child why ask for forgiveness if you are just gonna go and lie & think bad thoughts again straight afterwards....whats the point.

So I am all for everyone being treated equally, doesn't matter what your sexual preferences are, your race or colour, or your religion....treat others the way you would like to be treated.

Ok theres my final few words.


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## Stroppy (Nov 10, 2007)

*nay from me:x*


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 10, 2007)

Care to share your reasons Stroppy?


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

PiMp said:


> i TOTALLY believe in gay marriage
> 
> as long as BOTH THE CHICKS ARE HOT




Its so funny to see straight guys quote the above - THAT IS THE REASON THEY ARE LESBIAN'S THEY DON'T LIKE GUYS!!! Despite what you may think, oh its hot, etc They are not doing it for your pleasure.....

I believe I am normal, I was brought up with my dad (at around 18 would go gay bashing with all his mates) and my mum who taught me strength, courage and hope!

This world is hard enough, no matter whether your straight, gay or bi to find someone to love you as much as you love them. When I look in the mirror, I see a very proud guy staring back at me. 

I have been through hell and back to get where I am today but I wouldn't change it for the world. 

If its a matter of choice - do you think I would choose to be gay for a harder life - no body should be expected to put up with the crap us and many other minority groups face. 

You can all believe what you like, and I am not going to pressure you into a decision either way....

But please do not go of what has been drummed into you by generations before - times are changing and change is good - its what keeps us rolling. 

If one of your children or anyone in your family for that matter comes out to you - I hope you would be strong enough to give them courage and support - instead of petty thoughts and beliefs of your own - its not all about you - think what they may be going through.


Ps - my dad used to go gay bashing - although now he comes to the mardi gras with me and supports me 100% it didn't happen overnight, its been a good long process to get where we are now, but I am very proud of him for being so accepting of my beliefs

I hope this opens a few eyes....

Matt


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## sid94 (Nov 10, 2007)

I don't mind its not effecting me


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## MoreliaMatt (Nov 10, 2007)

$NaKe PiMp said:


> if i was a kid and had a freind who had gay mums,
> i dont think they would be disadvantaged at all



its a couple of years ago now, but i'll give you 1 guess why i dont agree with your statement and 1 guess as to why i dropped out of high school early to get a job and only see 1 person from my school days these days......

teenagers are cruel... still in this day and age.....


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## Horsy (Nov 10, 2007)

If people want to get married, let them. Stop being selfish.


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## mertle (Nov 10, 2007)

How pathetic are blokes that say I hate gay men but lesbians are hot!

Gutter thinking, 

Grow up please all the people who have this hypocritical thinking, 

These people are just like you and I , who they love is their choice,

How would you like me to say yeah your girlfriend is straight but I would love to see her do it with another man instead of you, make you feel nice?? i don't think so, 

and Gay people are NOT feral, they are better than most small minded people out there in society!

And please! Religion had nothing to do with marriage when it first came about! It was all about land and money! Do your research before bringing religion into it. The bible was brought together from many religions in ancient Greece, marriage was around long before that.


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## Mrs I (Nov 10, 2007)

Yah from me,

My sister is gay and has been with her partner for 7 years, they would love to be treated as a couple in he eyes of the government.

Funny thing is they cant adopt, but yet they are foster careers for many children !!

Where does that logic come from, they are good enough to look after other peoples kids but not 'good' enough to have their own.

Go Figure !

Mrs I


xxx


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## Shiv1 (Nov 10, 2007)

As long as the gays dont overrun straight people i really dont care


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

Shiv1 said:


> As long as the gays dont overrun straight people i really dont care



"The Gays" aren't aliens?? lol damn it - PROBING TIME LMAO


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

mmmmm i agree, Jordan I totally understand you knowing at 16, I worked it out in about yr 9, so 14. But I have always been gay. In primary school i was very 'out there' lets say and heaps of things that you could only think of as questionable. 

I dont think their is evidence to suggest homosexuality is purely genetic. ie their are identical twins that dont have the same sexuality. However it definatly a change which occurs early in life (More than likely in the wome). At some point gay people brains (or parts their of) grow in a structure more similar to that of the oposite sex making them attracted to people of the same. 

Btw in some societies marraige is not linked to religion eg buddist cultures such as sri lanka. Whithin these countries marraige is purely secular and the most religious part is that most couples will ask for a blessing before the ceremony (As they will do about most big events such as births, funerals, long holidays etc).


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## Shiv1 (Nov 10, 2007)

mblissett said:


> "The Gays" aren't aliens?? lol damn it - PROBING TIME LMAO


Didnt mean it like that lol, only meant i dont wanna join the on their * probing *


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## Isis (Nov 10, 2007)

Time for my 2 cents worth. I believe that in todays society we as the human race should have certain choices available to each and every one of us no matter what race, religion, color, sexual orientation, or financial status.
We are all individuals and have the right to chose for our selves what is right or wrong for ourselves. If you are gay you should have the choice available to you to marry if that is what you feel is right for you, same goes for straight people. I believe that people should have the same right to chose abortion, euthanasia, religious beliefs and whatever other life decisions you need to make for yourself. I believe that we do not have the right to judge. I am the furtherest from a religious person that you can get but I do believe in the whole treat others as you want to be treated bit. I dont believe that homosexuality is always a choice. If someone wants to choose to marry then it is their choice and nobody else has the right to tell them otherwise. It would be a terribly boring world if we were all the same and had the same opinion wouldnt it. I dont ell anyone how to live their lives and dont expect any one to tell me how to live mine.


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## CodeRed (Nov 10, 2007)

I dont think gay people know what they are getting into. Once you are married the sex STOPS !!!! 
So think twice before getting married 


























just kidding of course


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

that's true for a lot of people tho  (after a period that is)


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## Inkslinger (Nov 10, 2007)

Everyone seems to be underestimating children now a days my kids Godparents are all gay (as is a percentage of my client's) kids range from 13-30 never been any problems at school etc and the godparents have attended many functions at school, sports, etc as the children have go to Picnic in the park etc what it has done for the kids has given them a broader outlook a more tolerant view of what is perceived as normal.

Gays are born it is not a choice, there is far more "abnormality" in the straight scene than the gay scene.

Herp keepers how many times have you heard you are weird ? or not coming to your place I hate snakes etc.

In fact in a lot of cultures same sex relationships are accepted. The samurai's called it man love, happened in the roman legions, King Arthur was believed to be in love with Lancelot.

For those of you who a against it what if you found out your child was gay? would you want them denied the same rights that you currently enjoy?

For those pushing the religious argument (Christian) isnt your god supposed to love everyone?

Think long and hard people


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## Lockie (Nov 10, 2007)

I voted nay - and you should *ALL* vote nay as well - Australia has enough fat hairy volvo drivers... 

sorry, what's that? oh - gay marriage?! I vote yay.


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## slim6y (Nov 10, 2007)

The way I see it is... all the girls I have ever spoken to say that all the good guys are either taken or gay.. imagine if you allow same sex marriages.. that doubles the amount of 'taken people' making the rest of us guys look bad 

Vote against same sex marriages for that reason... 

Or of course.... It's ok when a gay guy splits up with another guy - because if all the good ones (boys) are either taken or gay, that leaves the gay man with at least half of them (statistically speaking).

I'd vote for a political party that was motivated to remove any legislation that discriminates against same sex couples (that was a serious comment)


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## Scleropages (Nov 10, 2007)

slim6y said:


> The way I see it is... all the girls I have ever spoken to say that all the good guys are either taken or gay.. imagine if you allow same sex marriages.. that doubles the amount of 'taken people' making the rest of us guys look bad
> 
> Vote against same sex marriages for that reason...
> 
> ...


 

hahahahahhaha

this thread is a bit tarded


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## kelly (Nov 10, 2007)

Okayyy. I'm pretty annoyed at the moment, being singled out by a few people when from what I can see, 58 other people voted Nay too.

I guess I shouldn't have posted my thoughts last night as I'd had a bit to drink :lol:

Now I'll explain myself, because I don't want anyone thinking I'm homophobic, because that is not the case at all.

I guess there should be a third option on the poll, even a forth. I voted Nay because it's the option closest to my beliefs.

I believe that Marriage is a union bonding you under the eyes of God. So unless you are Catholic/Christian etc, then you do not get Married. Yes, I know this may be considered very old fashioned to most people but that is the way I have been bought up. For this reason, I never want to be married.

So I am certainly not saying that only gay people should not be able to get married. As I said in my first post, I believe there should be a way for gay couples to be given the same rights as straight couples as we are all people and should be treated with equality.

Marriage will never be a priority to me, I don't really understand why others feel the urge and the need to get married, especially when it's really lost it's meaning nowadays with divorce and such.

If you are gay and really believe getting married is going to make you and your partner love each other more, or make the bond between you stronger, then I have no problem with that. If it was legal then it wouldn't bother me as it's each to their own.

So, as I said before - I guess I voted "nay" to voice my beliefs about marriage in general, not gay marriages.


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

I think as a election issue neither party (lib or labour) could advocate the allowing of gay marraige, as you can see on here their are still alot of people who oppose the issue and it would change their vote. But i think if the legislation was changed mid term their would be little if any motion against it. When it comes down to it neither liberal or labour have said any (real) reason why they are opposed to gay marraige other than they dont want to loose the christian vote. So far the only decent reason i have seen on here is becaus marraige isnt that good anyway, which is a seperate issue.

Ofcourse though every one need to know that they dont need to vote for one of the major parties, the greens, and the democrats both support the liberation of human rights.


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## salebrosus (Nov 10, 2007)

I certainly think if a gay couple are going to get married then the same legal rules apply to them as it does to a hetero couple. I know of gay couple who had IVF to conceive a child then split, THEN feel they shouldnt have to pay child support because the kid "isn't theirs". 

I've got quite a few gay male friends, some of them are lovely, but my own high school experience with gay girls was horrible. I was friends with some gay girls and got so alienated from the other girls because they thought i was gay - all because i had gay friends. And the butch lesbaians who hung out with the ones i actually liked seem to have the attitude that because thay were dykes so should everyone else be. So that caused me grief because they were always hitting on me and spreading the rumour around my school i was gay. In the end i had to flatten one of the girls who put her arm around me to make her realise GET THE HINT. By the time high school ended it was clear to the "normal" girls i wasnt gay but by that stage i wanted nothing to do ith any of them anyway.

So while i have gay male friends ( who totally understand my experience) i do not have anything to do with gay women- to put it bluntly i find them repulsive. Think about it, they use male toys to get themselves off, why not go for a the real thing? You like the same sex because you like females, but they are so butch they are more butch than some guys.

I don't treat gays like crap because they are gay. I treat them with the same respect they show to me, but i will avoid being personal with any of them. Thats not being discriminitive it's just my preference and my god given right not to have to associate with them. You can't help your experiences so i would much prefer to avoid being in the same situation again.

Simone.


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

I think it's important to mention that homosexuality has not been proven to be genetically linked, and I definitely don't believe that it is. It is simply another acquired characteristic - read Darwin's The Origin of Species.

However, it being not genetic does in no way make it any easier to change. Getting your arm cut off is an acquired characteristic, not a genetic one, however it's not like you can just unacquire it (to use a non-existent word).

Homosexuality is certainly a choice for some people, I think it's important to make that distinction, yes many people claim to be different from a young age, but there are also many that I know that have been too hurt by the opposite sex, and they see their only way out as being to get involved with their own sex.

I think the reason for this is that it is far easier to understand one's own sex, they have similar problems, similar thoughts. Personally this is a deterrent for me, I prefer the excitement of the unknown (cos that's what females are for a lot of guys).

There is also a lot of hype surrounding homosexuality nowadays, and being "bisexual" has certainly become something of a fad for many, a word they toss around. Not to belittle the few that actually believe themselves to naturally be this way, but I think it's important to note that it is a choice for some people.

Just one more thing:

I hear many people say things like "gay people are actually nicer than straight people", which is ridiculous really, they're a group of people like anyone else - identifying them as nicer than the rest only ostracises them further. But I think the reason why many people, and myself to an extent, feel so awkward around homosexuals is that some of them characteristically possess traits that some find off-putting in any person. For example I don't like excessive promiscuity, heterosexual or homosexual, yet I find that with gay liberation as it is progressing nowadays, it has become acceptable for homosexuals to express promiscuity in public and inappropriate to question it - anyone that criticises them for this is deemed homophobic.

As I said before, there is still a large portion of the population that has been pre-disposed against homosexuality by upbringing or cultural influence, and, right or wrong, gay marriage will take a while to be accepted.


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

Simone that's a really good point you make, that some girls are lesbians because they apparently don't like men, yet they get involved with the girls who are the most masculine.

The same goes for some gay men, and possibly why a lot of people are even annoyed by the way they behave, because one feels that if someone is a man, they should behave like a man, if someone is a woman, they should behave like a woman. I'm certainly not saying that this is the correct way to be thinking, but I think it explains somewhat the reason behind a lot of the resentment toward gays.


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## Radar (Nov 10, 2007)

I believe that everyone is entitled to their own choice, and everyone, including god (not having a shot at religion, just fundamentalists), should butt out. Isnt that what freedom is all about?


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 10, 2007)

LOL it mite sound like where making fun of th topic,but when it comes down to the truth

i believe if someone is attracted to same sex then that is how they feel and there totally allowed to feel that way and do as they choose,
if they love someone from the same sex who can stand in there way,
we cant help the way we feel
i have gay friends im quite fond of really
i dont see why some people go hating on gays


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

johnbowemonie said:


> I certainly think if a gay couple are going to get married then the same legal rules apply to them as it does to a hetero couple. I know of gay couple who had IVF to conceive a child then split, THEN feel they shouldnt have to pay child support because the kid "isn't theirs".
> 
> I've got quite a few gay male friends, some of them are lovely, but my own high school experience with gay girls was horrible. I was friends with some gay girls and got so alienated from the other girls because they thought i was gay - all because i had gay friends. And the butch lesbaians who hung out with the ones i actually liked seem to have the attitude that because thay were dykes so should everyone else be. So that caused me grief because they were always hitting on me and spreading the rumour around my school i was gay. In the end i had to flatten one of the girls who put her arm around me to make her realise GET THE HINT. By the time high school ended it was clear to the "normal" girls i wasnt gay but by that stage i wanted nothing to do ith any of them anyway.
> 
> ...



wow, simply a brilliant essay in generalising! 
so based on your small and limited interaction in school, when you were MUCH younger, female gays are 'repulsive' and they use phallic sex toys?

 you're all grown up now, with an adult mind, perhaps you should take a look at things from a new perspective? 
as you say, you can't help your experience, but you can assert logical transition from then to now.

if I went by your same rule set, I'd hate nearly every one on the planet, I was relentlessly bullied, beaten and humiliated during school, just because I was quiet and withdrawn.


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## salebrosus (Nov 10, 2007)

Recharge, the fact is i find them repulsive thats it. That won't change for me. Just as gay women are gay they wont change being gay either. Everyone on here is quick to say each to their own FINE !. Well my "each to their own" feeling is i find them repulsive. End of story.

Simone.


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

Ok johnbowmonie, i think ur experience shows that generally people are loosers, I think you would have to be arogent to not think straight guys would do just as stupid things. How must all the lesbians out there think when they have guys drooling over them, i think that stuff is filth. Sure you might get turned on by it but all this talk about lesbians being hot probably crosses the line alot of the time. 

Timotei I really think your example of someone choosing to be gay becaus they have been hurt by the oposite sex is a minority at best. I have never met or even chated to a gay guy that doesnt beleive they have always been different. Somepeople may use it as an excuse when they are coming out of the closet or watever. I think its important to note that their are still ALOT of people out their in the closet i beleive especially in the older generations. In the 'old days' it was just purely and completly un acceptable. These people felt very ostrascised by society and coming out would usually be accompanied by many 'excuses'. 

I agree though that the bisexual term is often thrown arround quite loosly I honestly beleive you are either gay or straight however again i havnt spoken to everyone. I think alot of straight woman are willing to experiment with other woman for the fun of it I also think alot of gay men are not fully able to commit to the lifestyle that is thrust upon us by society. I honestly think the lifestyle is a bit messed up and am not willing to get absorbed into it. Being gay isnt a lifestyle choice it is a psycological preference produced purely subconnsiously I really dont think its that possible to wake up one day and say I think I might try being attracted to the same sex one day.


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## waruikazi (Nov 10, 2007)

gillsy said:


> I don't know how you can go past an AFL player,



Don't forget some of those cricket players


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> I agree though that the bisexual term is often thrown arround quite loosly I honestly beleive you are either gay or straight however again i havnt spoken to everyone.
> .



now this is the part that gets me.. 
you've NEVER spoken to anyone about this subject, yet you have a firm belief in your mindset?

well, let me tell you, you're wrong, although there are many that 'play' both sides because they're just accepting of it, but there are also many that have know since they were children.

the same as a lot of gay and strait people do.

I've known since I was a child, the earliest memories I can think of (sexually) were of both sexes.
almost EVERY child experiments with their sexuality, as they grow they work out where they stand.

some just don't find the need to 'choose' a side, but they always lean more in one direction.

and JBM, it's just lucky we all don't just accept a rational as you have  or we'd still be living in caves  I don't say you HAVE to accept it, but accepting it upon the criteria as you have is a little 'sticking your head in the sand' much like people who 'just hate snakes' :lol:


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 10, 2007)

We must remember the original direction of this thread - *Should homosexuals be allowed to get married? *The question is not "should people get married?" or "what is your opinion of gay people?". I'd have no drama's with not allowing gay couples to get married, if they banned it for straight couples too. If straight couples are allowed to make silly decisions, we should make it possible for gay couples too.


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## Jen (Nov 10, 2007)

kelly said:


> Nay.
> I'm all for gay couples being given the same rights as straight couples, but Marriage is a religious thing and in the eyes of most (if not all) religions, same sex partners are wrong.



My religion does not discrimninate, so no, not all religions do. Also, many people these days go for a civil service, without religious overtones. Besides, God is love right?

Anyone ever heard of the 'rolly polly people'? Ancient Greeks had a myth that explained why you love the person you love, it goes something like this (from memory) People used to be a pair joined togther - 4 arms, 4 legs, 2 heads etc, and male/female, male/male and female/female couplings, this allowed them to move faster than the gods and the gods got jealous and separated them, removing soulmate from soulmate, so when you fall in love, with a male or female, then you have found the other half of your rolly polly person


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## reece89 (Nov 10, 2007)

i reckon that bisexuals are the worst your either one or the other lol.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

ari said:


> This is indeed a true fact, strange you know from councilling many different individuals about 5 years ago, including homosexuals & heterosexuals it is most apparent that most gay indivduals new they were different at a very young age, but at that young age were unable to determine what it actually was. Generally years prior to puberty it was known. This determination gave me the impression years before it was even announced that homosexuality is not chosen, but it is apparent in the DNA structure at the time of birth & insome instances can have a genetic link but skip many families. Basically say is that homosexuals are born homosexuals & have the DNA structure that makes them attracted to the same sex. Bisexuality is a difficult one to interpret but I believe many may choose that way of life due to lack of finding a partner, or for natural sexual needs.
> 
> What I am getting at is that from councilling numerous individuals, and I mean numerous individuals it seemed that homosexuals would be more inclined to seek councilling or social support due to mental health issues over heterosexuals which was caused by society and not being except or due to constant discrimation, verbal abuse, bashings & ridicule. This being said homosexuals can not be blamed for being homosexuals as they are born that way, which means when you are putting someone down for being gay its really quite upsetting as they can't do anything to change it....its in their makeup.
> 
> ...


 
thanks good read
i knew i was gay/lesbian from a very young age.and its good


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

Recharge said:


> you've NEVER spoken to anyone about this subject, yet you have a firm belief in your mindset?



Lol dont say i have never spoken to anyone becaus that is abit of an exageration. I have spoken to alot of people about it. I was just telling you what I think from the experiences i have had in the scene. I think your probably right in many ways alot of people experiment with the issue. I think woman have some kind of intrinsic beuaty which possibly men dont have(possibly why generally lesbians are more accepted than gay men). I find that many woman (otherwise straight) have no problem with experimenting with other woman just for the excitement. This type of thing is very rare with straight men. I duno maybe im just an ignorant idiot who ties to think that he knows everything. I dont lol


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

lol reece thats just ignorant, what is the problem with anyone having fun. I dont have a problem with anyone doing anything. My motto is if it doesnt hurt anyone then do it.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> mmmmm i agree, Jordan I totally understand you knowing at 16, I worked it out in about yr 9, so 14. But I have always been gay. In primary school i was very 'out there' lets say and heaps of things that you could only think of as questionable.
> 
> I dont think their is evidence to suggest homosexuality is purely genetic. ie their are identical twins that dont have the same sexuality. However it definatly a change which occurs early in life (More than likely in the wome). At some point gay people brains (or parts their of) grow in a structure more similar to that of the oposite sex making them attracted to people of the same.
> 
> Btw in some societies marraige is not linked to religion eg buddist cultures such as sri lanka. Whithin these countries marraige is purely secular and the most religious part is that most couples will ask for a blessing before the ceremony (As they will do about most big events such as births, funerals, long holidays etc).


 i knew at a young age i think i was like 7 and knowing i loved girls!


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Nov 10, 2007)

i am all for Gay marriage however i think now day marriage has little or no meaning how many people here have been devorced? it used to be a forever thing... But now.....

And i have no problem with gay people my boss is gay and she is lovely her partner is also a top chick
No a few really great gay guys...

However i have one bone to pick with the female gays that get all loud and proud and shave there heads and dress like men.... 

If your a gay female you like women right? so why the heck do you dress up like men and shave your heads??? you may as well get a sex change and become a man and be straight?
the hole point of being gay is you like women so why do alot of gay women act like there men???

i dont get it... i no that was a little of topic but this thread has gone a little off topic so why not


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## serenaphoenix (Nov 10, 2007)

Yay - marriage doesn't have to be religious, it's a way of declaring to the world how committed you are to a person and that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. And to say someone can't do something that every one else can is clear discrimination.

Besides, the beautiful canadians support gay marriage, how come we're so behind? Oh i love canada - they're so much more advanced at everything....

6ftpythonsgirl - that's a bit of a stereotypical generalisation isn't it?


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## ihaveherps (Nov 10, 2007)

Im against gay marriages, although i do understand that gay men may want to wear each others rings.


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Nov 10, 2007)

serenaphoenix said:


> 6ftpythonsgirl - that's a bit of a stereotypical generalisation isn't it?



No its not i didnt say they all did it i asked why the ones that do well... do it?

its seems pretty pointless if your a women and you like women why dress and act like a man??? my other half works with about 5 gay women and not one off them acts at all womenly??? like its tabo to be a women?? why???


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Nov 10, 2007)

ihaveherps said:


> Im against gay marriages, although i do understand that gay men may want to wear each others rings.



thats funny


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

Alot of gay people feel alot more like the opposite sex in more respects than just the bedroom. If you think about it logically would you dress up like a man just to suit ur partner. Im not really interested in dressing up like a woman and would rather be the hot young spunk that i am but plenty of people dont feel the same way.


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## 6ftpythonsgirl (Nov 10, 2007)

it just doesnt make sense to me if your a girl your a girl and if your a man in a girls body you get a sex change 

if you like girls why would you want to date a girl thats reminds you of a man???


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

hahaha 6ftpg thats a pretty neive way of looking at the whole situation, do you actually know whats involved in getting a sex change. Its not for the feint hearted and is never perfect. Plus if all you really want to be is yourself i dont see a problem with cutting your hair short. I hate having to tell ppl im gay it would be much easier if they could tell just by looking at me it would be alot easier. Im sure this is part of the reason.


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## pinkjess (Nov 10, 2007)

yay


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## pinkjess (Nov 10, 2007)

i've been with my gf for a coupla years and personally feel no need to have a piece of paper to prove how much we love each other. but there r people in the community that r going to fight n never be satisfied not having that equality or the same rights as a heterosexual couple


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## Jen (Nov 10, 2007)

6ftpythongirl: out of curiosity, how would you describe 'womanly behaviour'?


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## SnakeWrangler (Nov 10, 2007)

I am surprised that this thread has survived, you guys have done well. I am also surprised that the poll is so evenly split. I know it has been suggested that the poll is possibly inaccurate because there was no third option, but I think anyone who said no for a reason like "I think marriage is stupid for everyone" is just using that as an excuse to cover up their distaste for homosexuality.


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## rumpig (Nov 10, 2007)

hell no


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

Care to elaborate on why rumpig?


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> I hate having to tell ppl im gay it would be much easier if they could tell just by looking at me it would be alot easier. Im sure this is part of the reason.



R u sure they can't tell already?? lol 

Just too scared to tell ya hehe


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

haha of the people who I have told most atleast claim to be surprised (I think of them genuinly were). Although their are ppl who i would imagine r very suspicious. I think going to a christian school made me really try to hide who i am so am not as 'poofy (for lack of a better word) as alot of others. Im working on it though, i have definatly changed arround those who i am out to.


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## mertle (Nov 10, 2007)

Live and let Live

Who are you ,any of you , to think you have the right to have someone feel bad or Different about the way they are or feel.

Each to their own , gay straight, black, white, yellow, green or blue!

Get over the old way your parents thought, it's our time in the world now and it should be the same for everyone!


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## Mrs I (Nov 10, 2007)

Here here Mertle....

Mrs I

xxx


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## firedragon (Nov 10, 2007)

6ftpythonsgirl said:


> it just doesnt make sense to me if your a girl your a girl and if your a man in a girls body you get a sex change
> 
> if you like girls why would you want to date a girl thats reminds you of a man???




Hahaha, I ask that question often when i see guys with girls who have the body of a teenage boy (skinny as, no boobs and no hips, straight up and down) :lol: 

I'm sure there are others that are different to me, but i prefer my girls to be girl girls Elisa Dushku, Jessica Alba, Anjelina Jolie (before the anorexia) yum, and men to be men. I suppose it helps to be bi then you can have it both ways..


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## mindthesole (Nov 10, 2007)

nay its just wrong


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## crush the turtle (Nov 10, 2007)

:d Lol


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## Dipcdame (Nov 10, 2007)

I think it's called "Live and let live". If two people (gender non-specific) are in love, happy and want to make that commitment, then why ever not?
What people do behind their own doors is up to them, not the community at large.
I am happily married, not religiously in a church, but a civil wedding, have been for nigh on 30 years come this Feb, still as devoted to each other, and still happy to be with each other. Does it really matter if it was a guy or girl I married? The person was then, still is, and always will be, my soul mate.


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## ari (Nov 10, 2007)

Damn pillow b&%$ers.....LOL......its blasfemi I tell you, blasfemi. Just so you know I have a warped sarcastic mentally disturbed personality..............and I am about to come out of the closet..........yes thats right I am a moraphoradite...........FANTASTIC.......NOT.

Saz is a heterosexual..........beautiful thing that she is.

God I am cracking myself up now.


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 10, 2007)

Does anyone else hear that? Didn't think so, it's call *silence!*


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## Recharge (Nov 10, 2007)

I especially love how people don't get bisexuality  "YOU MUST BE ONE OR THE OTHER!!!!!" 
uh uh, no I don't 

I think it strange that people DO pick a side


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 10, 2007)

You see, I don't know how you can kiss a bloke without throwing up in his mouth, but I have gay mates who say the same thing about girls.


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## Hetty (Nov 10, 2007)

It's simple Jonno, you don't open your mouth much and when the vomit comes up you quickly close it.


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## IMSNAKEY (Nov 10, 2007)

personally it doesn't bother me as quite simply it doesn't affect me in the slightest. i think go for it in the eyes of the law thats fine. i think the problem lays in the fact that its the church that doesn't believe/approve in or of it. and really its a group, a community, a club if you will, so it itself shouldn't be forced to change the way it runs. but they should be able to have a lawful marriage outside of the church.

(now to clear things up. I'm not religious in any way, shape or form i am atheist. not that i have anything against religion im not here to start that again either. believe in what you feel is right. i just don't think its fair to force a group of people to change the way things have been done for centuries. but they should be able to be legally married and get the benefits of being married just like anyone else)


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> so am not as 'poofy (for lack of a better word) as alot of others. Im working on it though, i have definatly changed arround those who i am out to.



Hey Grimbeny, sorry, but would you mind explaining that for me for interest's sake ?

You say that you've definitely "changed" around the people to whom you have come out, can you explain the reason why and to what extend you have changed ? I have often wondered why a lot of gay men seem to take on virtually the same characteristics, the lisp, the high voice... Not saying that you have taken these on, just an observation that I'm sure all of us would have made.

If it's simply a matter of having a different orientation, then why these changes ? Surely nobody's going to tell me that they're genetic too ! Is this used as a means of showing that one is gay..?

Just interested.


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## Leigh (Nov 10, 2007)

EW, YUCK, GROSS!!!


marriage! and then the offspring!! urg, who would choose such a life?! 
yay for gay marriage, can't see a problem with all the legal rights, but no marriage in my extended family, kinship group, whatever, has succeeded, and never will.
as for children, again why would you want one? they just make smells and noises, and then people see fit to take them into public... but i know kids of gay couple who are very well adjusted, but have heard horror stories of other parents not allowing their kids to play with the little boy of a lesbian couple, which is rediculously outdated.

Josh

EDIT: also, just read the genetics bit, but historically, it hasn't always been turned away by cultures, before Christianity it was common for even married men to see either sex prostitutes.


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## grimbeny (Nov 10, 2007)

Well as i think i said earlier, being gay isnt just about your sexual orientation. (Atleast this is the way I feel about it) Being gay also affects alot of aspects of ur thought process. Evidence shows that aspects of the brains of gay people 'look' more like that of the opposite sex. Meaning that they think like them in more ways than just sexual. I dont speak with a lisp or a high voice but its not unusual for people to just be like that. I dont know their are things that i am more willing to do, like dance and stuff. Lol and its fun to get a gay walk thing happening.


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

I am a normal guy!! But then again what defines normal..... 

I eat, drink, sleep, piss, ****, have sex, shower and whatever normal people do.... I am not high maintanence!!!!!! 

I have a great sense of humour and can make most people laugh, even if it is a little off  laughing with me or at me is fine, if you can't laugh at yourself and the stupid things you get yourself into - what is there to laugh about? 

Contact me if you would like to know more 

Man I should put up a profile on APS - LMAO


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## Leigh (Nov 10, 2007)

personally i think there'd be some social conditioning in there as well. not to the extent of Brave New World, but if the idea of the stereotypical straight male changed, as it did repeatedly over the last few decades, then the same can happen with stereotypical gay men.
if it suddenly became believed that the smell of wet dog was sexy, as perpetuated by the company producing perfume d'wet dog, then people would change to fit. 
its all in our heads, everyone's insane!!!

Josh


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

Leigh said:


> as for children, again why would you want one? they just make smells and noises,



Lol, is it at all necessary for me to bring up continuation of the species as an argument for children ?


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## Leigh (Nov 10, 2007)

haha, we would all do better to evolve to asexuality, and split right down the middle... may leave more mess, but definitely less noise.


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## Reptile dude007 (Nov 10, 2007)

Yay
There is noting wrong with it.


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## Charlie V (Nov 10, 2007)

Yay. To deny such a basic service to people based on their sexual orientation, in this day and age, is simply abhorrent.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 10, 2007)

so what percentage of people on the forum are gay??

should have a poll theres people i didnt relise where gay and ones i already knew where

would be interesting to know


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## bredli84 (Nov 10, 2007)

good idea snake pimp, lets census the queers


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## Trouble (Nov 10, 2007)

Yay
I dont see what is wrong with it
Its their descision to who they want to love or not.


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## Retic (Nov 10, 2007)

I voted Yay, really why wouldn't you ? Each to their own, your sexual orientation isn't a choice. I reckon it is possible to work out roughly who voted which way. you don't have to be a redneck to be a homophobe but it helps :lol:
To those people who don't see the need for children believe they are the absolute best thing that can ever happen to you. It does help if you have good kids of course but I wouldn't be without ours for anything.


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

Grimbeny ,

I have to thank and applaud you - this thread has to be one of the best discussion topics ever placed on APS....

Your head is so screwed on!! Great to see a 20yo who is more mature than some other people on this site. 

The more people who discuss gay and lesbian topics the better - it brings it to everyones attention and when topics are talked about, it makes people think about it - even if 1 view is changed, in my opinion its worth it!!

Once again thankyou - you are a credit to the gay community 

Glad to have you as FAMILY!!

Matt


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

hookup!!! lol


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## mblissett (Nov 10, 2007)

LMAO Jordan.......

He is still only a baby (20yo) I am pushing 25 lol


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Nov 10, 2007)

mblissett said:


> LMAO Jordan.......
> 
> He is still only a baby (20yo) I am pushing 25 lol


 
5 years is ok...my gf is 2 yrs old then me


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## Law1980 (Nov 10, 2007)

Its all good to say yay or nay......who are we to decide? But what about the children?


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## kris21 (Nov 10, 2007)

All for it!
If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people...they're the ones who keep having gay babies ,lol.

Got that off a display pic 

But on a serious note, love is love and if you can get married on a tv show, get married then divorced in days like the celebs do then everyone including gay people have the right to get married.

Kristy


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## ari (Nov 10, 2007)

mblissett said:


> LMAO Jordan.......
> 
> He is still only a baby (20yo) I am pushing 25 lol



Doesn't matter get it onnnnnnn, that age difference isn't that big. Then it will be like the Love Boat.....LMAO

Oh yeh and then if gay marriage is made legal then we can all come to the wedding.


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## dentech (Nov 10, 2007)

nay, yes im homophobic, but my main problem is with the ones that cant make up their minds, one min there banging bruce the next brenda, if your gay then i can sort of deal with that as i know if your have some virus your keep it in the gay community, its the people who are willing to pass it over to the strights that really p me off.


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## Chris89 (Nov 10, 2007)

I personally don't mind, Everyone should be entitled to getting married. I'm sort of neutral about it - if it works for you then that's cool if it doesn't then that's fine lol, but there's no point in abusing someone for the way they are.

Also, bi-sexuals should make up their mind and stop being greedy lol.


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## Hetty (Nov 10, 2007)

Dentech! oh em gee!


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## Chris89 (Nov 10, 2007)

"oh em gee!" whos comment was that directed to.


lol. . . Nevermind you edited your post


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## dentech (Nov 10, 2007)

whats there to oh umm gee about its a fact the bi community along with the uninformed medical world brought the spread of hiv into the stright community, and 20 years later a large number of perple dying are strights due to a number of self absorbed death walkers


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## Chris89 (Nov 10, 2007)

someone needs to use spell checker. . . lol


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## dentech (Nov 10, 2007)

lol yep i should also read what i write so i know it makes a little more sence


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## mich1 (Nov 10, 2007)

bisexuals are the most unlucky in love....well i am LOL
i think everyone is born Bi......i think kurt cobain said that too


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## Hetty (Nov 10, 2007)

dentech said:


> whats there to oh umm gee about its a fact the bi community along with the uninformed medical world brought the spread of hiv into the stright community, and 20 years later a large number of perple dying are strights due to a number of self absorbed death walkers



throw the bigot down the well!


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## dentech (Nov 10, 2007)

how can people be born bi, for years the gays have been saying its a birth thing and not a choice bi, and i mean no offence by this are the people who cant handle the fact they are gay, so try and prove to themselfs that they are normal by going with women.


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## mich1 (Nov 10, 2007)

i was taking the micky a bit.
but i was born bi, i wish i was gay cos im a really passionate person and would get really involved...parade myself drapped in rainbow flags!
some straight ppl cant accept gay ppl.....some gay ppl cant accept someone being straight....bi ppl seem to be the coolest with everyone.

thats it, im starting a bisexual mardi gras in adelaide! YEAH


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## kris21 (Nov 10, 2007)

No, they are attracted to both sexes. its as simple as that.
Whether you are gay, straight or bi sexual you just go with the flow....Shane from TLW.

Kristy


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## mich1 (Nov 10, 2007)

Shane........yum lol


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## dentech (Nov 10, 2007)

bigot i may be, but i belive in being honest, my views on gays are the same for men and women, and yes i have lost some close friends, both to aids (blood transfusions not messing around) and because i have disowned the friends that were gay.


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## Timotei (Nov 10, 2007)

dentech said:


> bigot i may be, but i belive in being honest, my views on gays are the same for men and women, and yes i have lost some close friends, both to aids (blood transfusions not messing around) and because i have disowned the friends that were gay.



There's a point when free speech becomes deeply offensive, and I believe you're at great risk of reaching that point (if you have not already done so).

This thread has gone a good 18 pages without getting crappy (must be an APS record )

On ya Grimbeny 

Dentech I think you need to learn a few things regarding a) general courtesy b) transmission of STI's (ie, they're not limited to one sexuality) c) acceptance.


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