# Brian Barcyzk - My opinion



## LittleButterfly (Apr 8, 2019)

Hello Aussie Pythons community,

So recently I have taken a lot of interest in the way Brian Barczyk actually handles and houses his animals. I know this is a topic that has been talked about a lot already but I just wanted to put in my opinion.

First things first, his handling. 
Brian normally handles his small to medium sized snakes with one hand, with his other hand occupied with his camera. Now for small pythons this may be somewhat okay, I hold my 14 month old stimmie with one hand when I'm cleaning my enclosure, in Brian's case when he is handling baby ball pythons. The bigger problem is when he is handling large ball pythons or any size of colubrid. With the larger ball pythons, sometimes he doesn't support their bodies well enough, because he sometimes wants to show you the length of the animals. I don't like this because ball pythons have a large body and it is more comfortable for them when they are supported. 
Secondly, when he handles his colubrids, he often holds them quite tightly, especially the babies because they are faster moving snakes majority of the time. This stresses the snake out and isn't a good way to handle animals. He also handles animals that do not like handling, like his tree boa, which results in him getting bitten most of the time, which translates to the viewer that snakes like to bite.
Also, just a quick note, Brian sometimes handles venomous snakes irresponsibly

Second, his husbandry. 
I touched on this (as well as some of the people who replied to my article) in my Reptiles by Mack Post.
I don't mind the rack method as long as it's done correctly and doesn't affect the animal in a negative way. Brian provides his snakes little to no substrate (ie his ball pythons, only paper towel) and a water dish. No hides and no other sources of enrichment. This is a problem because this means the snake has no mental stimulation and no place to feel secure. Brian had said that he doesn't use hides because the enclosure is sort of like a hide because it is dark and covered majority of the time. But then how does the snake have a day/night cycle? Also, that means that the snake probably only gets a small amount of time outside it's enclosure. This may mean that by the time the snake is shipped to it's owner, it has had very little human interaction. 

Thirdly, the way he runs his business.
Brian has a lot of snakes and other reptiles. And a smaller crew by the looks of it. Now Brian has never actually said how many animals he has, possibly from fear of getting hate. A small crew mixed with lots of animals isn't a great combination. Also, according to articles I have read, Brian does not quarantine his animals and has had quite a few deaths within his collection. He also doesn't respond well to hate and has had a track record of calling out viewers.

Now this whole thing is my opinion, feel free to correct me on anything or add your own opinion.
Thanks for reading,
LittleButterfly


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## Sdaji (Apr 8, 2019)

Sounds like the post of someone who recently got their first snake, probably has very little experience, and has an axe to grind for some reason.

I'm not going to endorse his handling, but I think we're just getting a little bitchy if we attack a foreigner because we don't like his handling technique. There are better things in this world than how someone else handles. Some are better, some are worse, some are just different, whatever. I am certainly more gentle than the average keeper, he is probably a bit more rough, but his animals thrive, we can't argue with the results. They can't be too stressed. Don't lose sleep over it. The medical system over there is not socialised like in Australia, so if he's bitten it's his problem. Much more than in Australia, his body, his choice. And yes, some snakes are more prone to biting than others. If him getting bitten by tree boas gives people the message that tree boas are not a good snake if you want something to handle without being bitten, I'm struggling to see a problem.

Snakes don't need human interaction. They don't benefit from it. Don't lose sleep over this. After keeping snakes for most of my life (I'm 40 next month, ouch!), dealing with a wide range of species from elapids, pythons, boas, colubrids, vipers (no, none of the exotics have been in Australia) I've been surprised at what works best for most species. My first enclosure had rocks and wood and fancy substrate and three heat sources etc etc, and it worked really badly. Of all the different methods I've tried, the one which snakes get feeding best in, which presumably means the snakes are happiest in, is even more simple than what Brian uses! I don't even generally describe it to people, partly because they'll think I'm lying and partly because it does take a little more skill to get right, but the next best thing is a small tub (smaller than recommended so they feel secure), a water bowl, paper substrate and yep, no hide. For newbies who don't fully understand the situation and for whom I don't have an hour or two explaining things to, a larger tub with a hide usually works okay. And also, this is what everyone else recommends so if I don't say anything unconventional I can't be blamed when things go wrong. But if my goal is to make a snake as happy as possible to get it to feed as well as I can, I will use a setup similar to Brian's but slightly more simple.

I'm not sure about his quarantine situation. I personally think it's important to quarantine, but in all the years I've been interacting with reptile people, I've met maybe half a dozen who actually do practice quarantine. Many many claim to, but most of them only pay lip service, most of the rest try but don't actually achieve anything (very few people understand what genuine quarantine involves), and just a very few actually practice it. I personally put a huge amount of effort into quarantine, but if Brian doesn't it just means he's like virtually everyone else.

Obviously someone with thousands of animals will have had animals die. You won't find anyone in the world who has kept thousands of animals and had none die. I've had thousands of snakes and I've had snakes die. I've never had a disease outbreak.

He doesn't respond well to haters? Wow, unlike everyone else who sends them chocolates and flowers and gift hampers? C'mon, what do you expect? He's actually a really lovely guy. He's not perfect, neither am I, neither are you, no one is.

As Brian would say, make today awesome and please do something kind for someone today


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 8, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Sounds like the post of someone who recently got their first snake, probably has very little experience, and has an axe to grind for some reason.
> 
> I'm not going to endorse his handling, but I think we're just getting a little bitchy if we attack a foreigner because we don't like his handling technique. There are better things in this world than how someone else handles. Some are better, some are worse, some are just different, whatever. I am certainly more gentle than the average keeper, he is probably a bit more rough, but his animals thrive, we can't argue with the results. They can't be too stressed. Don't lose sleep over it. The medical system over there is not socialised like in Australia, so if he's bitten it's his problem. Much more than in Australia, his body, his choice. And yes, some snakes are more prone to biting than others. If him getting bitten by tree boas gives people the message that tree boas are not a good snake if you want something to handle without being bitten, I'm struggling to see a problem.
> 
> ...



I see your point. I do not that much experience, that's true but everyone has opinions. Depends on what you classify as recent, does 5 months classify as recent. This is just the opinion of a teenager who has a bit of information on reptiles. Also, this the opinion of a owner vs a breeder, so my opinions may seem a bit extra.


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## Sdaji (Apr 8, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> I see your point. I do not that much experience, that's true but everyone has opinions.



True, it's just a shame that people without valid ones still insist on having them.



> Depends on what you classify as recent, does 5 months classify as recent.



Is 4" small?



> This is just the opinion of a teenager who has a bit of information on reptiles. Also, this the opinion of a owner vs a breeder



You said it


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## Southernserpent (Apr 8, 2019)

I really enjoy Brian's videos and think a lot more people could benifite from being more positive including myself. I believe he does a lot of good for the reptile community and I take a lot of inspiration from him and his attitide. He is a big breeder and it's often hard for people to come to terms with the sheer size of his facility. But going by his videos alone he seems to care a lot about his animals and has a lot more experience than me.


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 8, 2019)

Southernserpent said:


> I really enjoy Brian's videos and think a lot more people could benifite from being more positive including myself. I believe he does a lot of good for the reptile community and I take a lot of inspiration from him and his attitide. He is a big breeder and it's often hard for people to come to terms with the sheer size of his facility. But going by his videos alone he seems to care a lot about his animals and has a lot more experience than me.



He is positive and before I got my snake I enjoyed watching his videos. I just don't agree with some of the things he does


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 8, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> He is positive and before I got my snake I enjoyed watching his videos. I just don't agree with some of the things he does


I don't agree with a lot of things he does, but you can't deny his passion and his love of reptiles. He clearly loves reptiles and wouldn't deliberately do anything to harm them. His methods might not appeal to all of us but he is a breeder and tubs are arguably the best way of doing this. Permanent enclosures should be better.


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 8, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> I don't agree with a lot of things he does, but you can't deny his passion and his love of reptiles. He clearly loves reptiles and wouldn't deliberately do anything to harm them. His methods might not appeal to all of us but he is a breeder and tubs are arguably the best way of doing this. Permanent enclosures should be better.


He is passionate about his animals but he can be impulsive when purchasing animals and doesn't have space for them sometimes


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## Bl69aze (Apr 8, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> With the larger ball pythons, sometimes he doesn't support their bodies well enough, because he sometimes wants to show you the length of the animals. I don't like this because ball pythons have a large body and it is more comfortable for them when they are supported.


You can hold any snake by the end of their tail, and still, be "supporting it" - no, it's not the best extended periods of time, he only does it for a couple of minutes at most for the camera. No harm, No foul.



LittleButterfly said:


> No hides and no other sources of enrichment. This is a problem because this means the snake has no mental stimulation and no place to feel secure.


 Reptiles date back to the time dinosaurs roamed. I don't think they care about a new smell or whatever. As long as they are alive, they are doing the best they could ever hope for. their form of a day-night cycle is heating.



LittleButterfly said:


> This may mean that by the time the snake is shipped to its owner, it has had very little human interaction.


SOMEONE has to handle the animals during enclosure cleans/tub changes. ball pythons are as boring as a rock IMO, they roll up and do nothing even bite you, they just look cool with all their morphs. Sure, if you have 5000 5ft tanks, be my guest 




LittleButterfly said:


> Brian has a lot of snakes and other reptiles. And a smaller crew by the looks of it. Now Brian has never actually said how many animals he has, possibly from fear of getting hate. A small crew mixed with lots of animals isn't a great combination. Also, according to articles I have read, Brian does not quarantine his animals and has had quite a few deaths within his collection. He also doesn't respond well to hate and has had a track record of calling out viewers.



Pretty sure he has said he has a couple of thousand animals (snakes, geckos, etc). Try and keep that many animals without some Dying, from what I've seen they have been babies, malformed (2 heads etc)

as far as I'm concerned, he is doing the best quarantine he can by not having any of the animals interact, have yet to see a vid saying "MY SNAKE COLLECTION ALL GOT SUNSHINE VIRUS!"



I feel like you have been seeing all the hate vids against Brian recently, regarding the Spider gene and his reticulated python with the weird mouth rot/overbite/whatever u want to call it and gone with it
 Supporting Brian

 Using classic media skills to show all the negatives (dirty tub must = doesn't clean tanks: eyeroll


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 8, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> He is passionate about his animals but he can be impulsive when purchasing animals and doesn't have space for them sometimes


he is a breeder and when he comes across a new morph (which seems to be important in the US) he grabs it.And if you look at his vids, he has plenty of room.Stop looking for reasons to complain.We don't all like his systems but we don't whine and complain


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 8, 2019)

dragonlover1 said:


> he is a breeder and when he comes across a new morph (which seems to be important in the US) he grabs it.And if you look at his vids, he has plenty of room.Stop looking for reasons to complain.We don't all like his systems but we don't whine and complain


Sorry if I came across as that because thats not what I meant.


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## Sdaji (Apr 8, 2019)

Good comments for the most part.

I think one of the most consistent aspects of the people in our hobby is that they like to bitch and complain, but it's nice to see here that most people are being pretty level headed.

Especially when you just recently got your first and still only snake, you really don't stand in a position to be abusing others, especially those with far, far more experience than you will ever have.


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 9, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Good comments for the most part.
> 
> I think one of the most consistent aspects of the people in our hobby is that they like to bitch and complain, but it's nice to see here that most people are being pretty level headed.
> 
> Especially when you just recently got your first and still only snake, you really don't stand in a position to be abusing others, especially those with far, far more experience than you will ever have.


That is a fair point, I am not trying to abuse others but again it’s my opinion. Just because I have little experience doesn’t mean I can’t see some things that others can’t
[doublepost=1554765664,1554759929][/doublepost]You guys are mainly looking at the economical and 'practical' side. I am looking at the ethical and humane side. It is not that hard when you have lots of money, to just add some substrate and some enrichment to those enclosures. Snakes don't just eat, hunt and poop. They need enrichment to thrive.


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## Wokka (Apr 9, 2019)

How do you tell if a reptile is thriving?


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## Sdaji (Apr 9, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> That is a fair point, I am not trying to abuse others but again it’s my opinion. Just because I have little experience doesn’t mean I can’t see some things that others can’t
> [doublepost=1554765664,1554759929][/doublepost]You guys are mainly looking at the economical and 'practical' side. I am looking at the ethical and humane side. It is not that hard when you have lots of money, to just add some substrate and some enrichment to those enclosures. Snakes don't just eat, hunt and poop. They need enrichment to thrive.



If it's my opinion that you're wrong, or someone else's opinion is that you're stupid, or someone else's opinion is that you should shut up or be killed or whatever, does "It's their opinion" hold any validity? No, it does not. "It's my opinion" is this meaningless statement made almost exclusively to baselessly defend bad ideas.

What can you see that others can't?

As Wokka says, how do you know if a snake is thriving? What is the measure of 'thrive'? Absolutely, captive snakes would be much worse at evading predators. Should we put kookaburras or cats with them to give them a few scars and teach them how to fear and avoid predators, or should we accept that if they are never going to be faced with a challenge that they don't need to learn how to deal with it?

You've literally only ever kept one snake and only for a short time. I think that while you claim you can see things others can't, perhaps you can see that there are people who have been keeping many many thousands of snakes of a wide range of species and kept them 'thriving' for many generations over several decades, who perhaps can see things you can't.


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## nick_75 (Apr 9, 2019)

Harsh treatment guys. I've read many posts from most of you in the past where you have been helpful and gentle in the giving of advice to new and inexperienced people. What has happened to that tone this time?

I don't like Brian myself for many reasons, but I would not condemn the overall well being of the animals in his facility. Their basic needs are met in order to survive.

But I also agree with LittleButterfly on the subject of environmental stimulation for our captive reptiles. I am not saying that positive stimulation is essential to keeping a healthy reptile and if you don't provide it, you are a bad keeper. As pointed out above, many animals are kept in tub systems with no hides, branches etc without any adverse effect on the animal. I understand why large collections are kept like this. It is a stream lined system that saves space and cleaning time. I, personally won't do it.

I will never have a large collection because I personally like to provide enclosures with lots of environmental stimulation and that takes up space and a lot of time cleaning.


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## Sdaji (Apr 9, 2019)

nick_75 said:


> Harsh treatment guys. I've read many posts from most of you in the past where you have been helpful and gentle in the giving of advice to new and inexperienced people. What has happened to that tone this time?



What happened? Basic concept: If you're a newbie who opens an attack on a veteran, and your justification is 'I have no experience,I don't know what I'm talking about, but it's my opinion and I want to attack anyway', you kinda can't complain if you cop a little criticism yourself in the responses.

If you're a newbie (or veteran or anywhere in between) and politely ask a question rather than launching an attack, you'll probably get a more friendly response.


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## nick_75 (Apr 9, 2019)

I don't think the original post was an attack, just a statement of personal opinion. With a view to starting an open discussion about the housing and care of animals in large commercial collections.


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## Wokka (Apr 9, 2019)

My observation is that snakes seek food and temperature, and sex at the right time of year. Given these the snake is usually healthy , grows and breeds which is my measure of thriving. The enrichment appears to benefit the keepers rather than the animals.
[doublepost=1554779716,1554779562][/doublepost]I think in these sort of discussions it is fairer to talk about "large scale reptile keepers" rather than naming individuals.


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 9, 2019)

@Sdaji Brian puts himself out there and that's why people say stuff about him. It wasn't an attack on him and I used him as an example because he is the only large scale breeder I am very familiar with

And the way you started your original reply was straight away on the attack


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 9, 2019)

Agree with Sdaji 100% here.
Another one on the BB hate campaign. 
I dont know how the guy gets out of bed every morning when every "wanna be" reptile keeper around the globe takes pot shots at him.

There are plenty of dicks out there who deserve attention but everything Brian does is scutinised to the point of insanity...
When you have had 20 years or so of keeping different species and done as much for this hobby as Brian has then feel free to be critical. (If you can support that criticism with some evidence to back it up).


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## Sdaji (Apr 9, 2019)

nick_75 said:


> I don't think the original post was an attack, just a statement of personal opinion. With a view to starting an open discussion about the housing and care of animals in large commercial collections.



If I state my opinion, and my opinion is that you are stupid, doing something wrong, doing something others should disrespect, my opinion is that people should disapprove of you, or anything similar, it's fair to say that my statement of my personal opinion is an attack on you. Negative criticism is a form of attack. I don't mean to play that up, but if you want to cry that you're being treated harshly after being harsh to someone else, it doesn't really hold weight.

This whole "It's just my opinion" nonsense is meaningless and just used as an empty decoy strategy or to justify being wrong as being okay.
[doublepost=1554788589,1554788135][/doublepost]


LittleButterfly said:


> @Sdaji Brian puts himself out there and that's why people say stuff about him. It wasn't an attack on him and I used him as an example because he is the only large scale breeder I am very familiar with
> 
> And the way you started your original reply was straight away on the attack



You also put yourself up there by starting this thread. You are happy to attack someone else from a position of basically no experience or knowledge, but cry foul when being called out yourself.

Yep, he puts himself out there, people talk about him, that's what we're all doing here. I don't think he has a problem with that, I don't fear for his feelings. He's a nice guy with clearly thicker skin than you have.

You make a clear attack on someone and defend that.

Hey, here's my opinion, and it's not an attack, it's just a statement of opinion. You don't know what you're talking about, you're being silly, you should learn more before criticising, your assertion that having kept one single snake for 5 months doesn't mean you only just recently got into snakes is completely stupid, you made an attack, you are a hypocrite for happily dishing it out buy sooking when being called on it, you are cowardly by hiding behind the pathetic 'it's just my opinion' nonsense.

All of my words in this post are my opinion, thus, by your standards, they are not attacks.

Haha, when I phrase it in your terms it even actually reads like an angry attack!


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## Bl69aze (Apr 9, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> @Sdaji Brian puts himself out there and that's why people say stuff about him. It wasn't an attack on him and I used him as an example because he is the only large scale breeder I am very familiar with
> 
> And the way you started your original reply was straight away on the attack



With respect, if he is the only large scale breeder you're familiar with, I don't think it's fair to say his husbandry is wrong.

He makes videos for the love of his hobby (yes as well to advertise his reptile building, good on him.)

the only evidence you have shown on your claims are some "articles", and if I know which articles you're talking about, they're made by his competitors/ other people who want to get attention.
as you can see by this thread, posting your opinion of this scene gathers a lot of attention. I don't think I have seen Brian name and shame, anyone?

The hate against him started with him defending The spider gene and as you say it's his "opinion", let him have it and move on, look up some primary articles, from people actually going to his reptile zoo whatever thingy, go for yourself even. Lots of vids are picking out the negatives to make him seem all negative
[doublepost=1554789154,1554788614][/doublepost] This video is one of the biggest reptile morph creators and suppliers to America. Go find something to attack him about.

 I post this one again Because it stands to my point that a lot of people are picking and just talking willy nilly, and people like this guy can debunk those statements in half a second.


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## Kyle Hamilton (Apr 9, 2019)

Poor old brian B ,everyones into him ,next thing the vegans will be walking away with his snakes because they know better .


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 9, 2019)

Kyle Hamilton said:


> Poor old brian B ,everyones into him ,next thing the vegans will be walking away with his snakes because they know better .


Okay, vegans are a bit extreme with their views
[doublepost=1554803081,1554802077][/doublepost]You guys are saying things that benefit yourselves. Snake tubs are more cheaper for breeders, and saying that snakes don't need human interaction or mental stimulation and just tolerate handling is actual bull in some cases. Ive seen and heard many cases of snakes interacting with their environments and using objects placed inside by the owner for mental simulation. I have also seen snakes that actually like being handled, they want to come outside and be with their owner. They also treat their owner differently to other people


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## Bl69aze (Apr 9, 2019)

People also say tubs are better to feed in outside their normal enclosure >_<

Here is a 35yo snake that lived in a tub. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1400192776791982&id=630815550396379


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## Imported_tuatara (Apr 9, 2019)

i don't really care about tub systems, they can be done well. him stressing his animals out so they bite him for views, the time he let his monitor drop down 2feet? from it's arm(luring it out from it's enclosure, waiting until the monitor had it's frontal body down half way from the enclosure, then luring that part of the body back up just to lure back away from the enclosure to let it fall, all while recording when he could've either just not done it, or put his camera down and guide the monitor properly up himself, his lack of any regards towards the fish he brought other than the factor that they're "cool" without caring about how big they get (getting a common pleco for a very small enclosure when it was a baby, not knowing that it was capable of getting 2+ feet) keeping bluetongues in imo horrible conditions for breeding, letting his retic get mouth rot dating back over 3 years ago and denying any sorts of neglect to such an animal and then when more than a quarter of the jaw was off just saying "a little accident", ect.
him breeding the spider morph and defending the breeding with his example being miniscule while knowing that the spider gene can get MUCH worse than what he showed and can lead to the snake not being able to keep itself onto something, barely being able to eat and at times needing assistance eating and so on.
i don't necessarily like his rack systems either though, anacondas, tree boas, etc shouldn't be kept in the dark with no uvb, and i'd definitely either call such neglect or abuse. (i'm not against rack systems in general, a lot of species thrive with racking systems, and well made rack systems with uvb etc are able to hold even more animals, but his are not a prime example of a good, or even decent racking system.)


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 9, 2019)

Imported_tuatara said:


> i don't really care about tub systems, they can be done well. him stressing his animals out so they bite him for views, the time he let his monitor drop down 2feet? from it's arm(luring it out from it's enclosure, waiting until the monitor had it's frontal body down half way from the enclosure, then luring that part of the body back up just to lure back away from the enclosure to let it fall, all while recording when he could've either just not done it, or put his camera down and guide the monitor properly up himself, his lack of any regards towards the fish he brought other than the factor that they're "cool" without caring about how big they get (getting a common pleco for a very small enclosure when it was a baby, not knowing that it was capable of getting 2+ feet) keeping bluetongues in imo horrible conditions for breeding, letting his retic get mouth rot dating back over 3 years ago and denying any sorts of neglect to such an animal and then when more than a quarter of the jaw was off just saying "a little accident", ect.
> him breeding the spider morph and defending the breeding with his example being miniscule while knowing that the spider gene can get MUCH worse than what he showed and can lead to the snake not being able to keep itself onto something, barely being able to eat and at times needing assistance eating and so on.
> i don't necessarily like his rack systems either though, anacondas, tree boas, etc shouldn't be kept in the dark with no uvb, and i'd definitely either call such neglect or abuse. (i'm not against rack systems in general, a lot of species thrive with racking systems, and well made rack systems with uvb etc are able to hold even more animals, but his are not a prime example of a good, or even decent racking system.)


These were my points as well


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## Imported_tuatara (Apr 9, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> These were my points as well


rereading your post and some points definitely align, guess we do indeed have similar opinions


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 9, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> You guys are saying things that benefit yourselves. Snake tubs are more cheaper for breeders



I dont see any difference in the cost of keeping in enclosures or racks and I have several of each to compare. (And I actually breed in nothing but enclosures just for the record) And while on the subject, without breeders finding ways to absorb/reduce costs you would never be able to buy that little noodle of yours that you paid peanuts for.
Get sick to death of hearing this argument from people who argue the toss over $20 when buying from a breeder.

It will be appropriate for me to use a quote of Brians here. If i put as much time and energy into anything else I would make a **** load more money than i do from breeding snakes.
Very few people make decent money from breeding snakes and unless they breed decent numbers they wont even cover their costs.


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## TheRamiRocketMan (Apr 10, 2019)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I dont see any difference in the cost of keeping in enclosures or racks and I have several of each to compare. (And I actually breed in nothing but enclosures just for the record) And while on the subject, without breeders finding ways to absorb/reduce costs you would never be able to buy that little noodle of yours that you paid peanuts for.
> Get sick to death of hearing this argument from people who argue the toss over $20 when buying from a breeder.



I think this is a key point. Lets be honest, reptiles are too cheap. They're living things and selling them off for $20 each is poor statement for the health of the market and the health of the animals being sold. 

I'm not proposing a solution, the reality is breeders probably wouldn't make any more money raising their prices (due to demand falloff) so we're stuck in this situation.


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## Varanid (Apr 10, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Sounds like the post of someone who recently got their first snake, probably has very little experience, and has an axe to grind for some reason.
> 
> I'm not going to endorse his handling, but I think we're just getting a little bitchy if we attack a foreigner because we don't like his handling technique. There are better things in this world than how someone else handles. Some are better, some are worse, some are just different, whatever. I am certainly more gentle than the average keeper, he is probably a bit more rough, but his animals thrive, we can't argue with the results. They can't be too stressed. Don't lose sleep over it. The medical system over there is not socialised like in Australia, so if he's bitten it's his problem. Much more than in Australia, his body, his choice. And yes, some snakes are more prone to biting than others. If him getting bitten by tree boas gives people the message that tree boas are not a good snake if you want something to handle without being bitten, I'm struggling to see a problem.
> 
> ...


Good response John.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Sdaji (Apr 10, 2019)

You know people know what they're talking about when they decide to attack a foreigner and include lack of UV for pythons in their reasoning.

Trying keeping thousands of animals and see if you never have a single case of any health problem. He doesn't have to share his experience with a mouth rot issue, but he's brave enough to share a warts and all version of his experience so others can see it. Virtually no one does that. I sure wouldn't, because despite what people would learn from it, I'd either make some trivial mistake or some two week expert would bitch because I didn't give calcium powder to a Children's Python and start threads like this.

Enclosures and racks are the same price and efficiency? Are you even trying to kid me or just trolling yourself? How far from reality can you get and still type it out in a post?


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## Imported_tuatara (Apr 10, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> You know people know what they're talking about when they decide to attack a foreigner and include lack of UV for pythons in their reasoning.
> 
> Trying keeping thousands of animals and see if you never have a single case of any health problem. He doesn't have to share his experience with a mouth rot issue, but he's brave enough to share a warts and all version of his experience so others can see it. Virtually no one does that. I sure wouldn't, because despite what people would learn from it, I'd either make some trivial mistake or some two week expert would bitch because I didn't give calcium powder to a Children's Python and start threads like this.
> 
> Enclosures and racks are the same price and efficiency? Are you even trying to kid me or just trolling yourself? How far from reality can you get and still type it out in a post?


you know people know what they're talking about when they call boas pythons. he *denied* mouth rot for multiple years and then when it had eaten off most of the lower jaw he still didn't except it as mouth rot, and said something along the lines of "just a little accident" i wouldn't mind how bad of a keeper of most of his animals he is if it wasn't for the fact that he is a huge role model for a lot of people into reptiles and was their first time seeing snakes etc as pets, was the first person that made them want a reptile, etc, but he is that, and him showing bad care and publically agreeing with bad care about so many animals just leads to animals being miskept by people who don't do their own research, and while the point that that's their fault is valid, that still doesn't mean he should continue to share bad info. i never mentioned anything about prices and efficiency of enclosures being comparable? i said that a lot of animals can thrive in rack systems similar to his with tub, and meant that a lot he has in those tubs shouldn't, and that there's also "rack" enclosures instead that would be able to hold a lot more animals, including the majority of the animals he keeps in tubs. yes, it would be expensive, but it would also be a step further in good easily available examples of better keeping, and i'd say he'd be able to afford at least one for the afore mentioned reptiles, considering how much he definitely earns from youtube alone...


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## PythonLegs (Apr 10, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> @Sdaji Brian puts himself out there and that's why people say stuff about him. It wasn't an attack on him and I used him as an example because he is the only large scale breeder I am very familiar with
> 
> And the way you started your original reply was straight away on the attack



Welcome to the world of reptile keeper elitism, where you’re automatically right if you’ve been doing it for a long time or banging on about it enough.


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## LittleButterfly (Apr 10, 2019)

PythonLegs said:


> Welcome to the world of reptile keeper elitism, where you’re automatically right if you’ve been doing it for a long time or banging on about it enough.


Yup, I gathered


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## Sdaji (Apr 10, 2019)

Imported_tuatara said:


> you know people know what they're talking about when they call boas pythons. he *denied* mouth rot for multiple years and then when it had eaten off most of the lower jaw he still didn't except it as mouth rot, and said something along the lines of "just a little accident" i wouldn't mind how bad of a keeper of most of his animals he is if it wasn't for the fact that he is a huge role model for a lot of people into reptiles and was their first time seeing snakes etc as pets, was the first person that made them want a reptile, etc, but he is that, and him showing bad care and publically agreeing with bad care about so many animals just leads to animals being miskept by people who don't do their own research, and while the point that that's their fault is valid, that still doesn't mean he should continue to share bad info. i never mentioned anything about prices and efficiency of enclosures being comparable? i said that a lot of animals can thrive in rack systems similar to his with tub, and meant that a lot he has in those tubs shouldn't, and that there's also "rack" enclosures instead that would be able to hold a lot more animals, including the majority of the animals he keeps in tubs. yes, it would be expensive, but it would also be a step further in good easily available examples of better keeping, and i'd say he'd be able to afford at least one for the afore mentioned reptiles, considering how much he definitely earns from youtube alone...



He obviously knows a boa is not a python. You obviously don't have much substance when attacking someone if you pick on them having accidentally used the wrong word. I asked for a spoon when I wanted a fork, not because I don't know the difference, I was just distracted.

I'm not familiar with the mouth rot incident. If he got that one wrong then hey, he got that one wrong. By all means discuss that particular incident, try to do it nicely if he hasn't been nasty to you (surely you can agree he is a pleasant fellow, regardless of what you think of his keeping skills).

I never said you'd said anything about racks and enclosures. It should stand to reason that was in response to the person who made the comment relevant to the response (It was Paul's Pythons who made that sterling comment).
[doublepost=1554875157,1554875108][/doublepost]


PythonLegs said:


> Welcome to the world of reptile keeper elitism, where you’re automatically right if you’ve been doing it for a long time or banging on about it enough.



I really don't see anyone having made that claim.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 10, 2019)

LittleButterfly said:


> saying that snakes don't need human interaction or mental stimulation and just tolerate handling is actual bull in some cases.



Give me one example of a snake that needs human interaction?
Tell us a bit more about this mental stimulation theory?


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## Imported_tuatara (Apr 10, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> I never said you'd said anything about racks and enclosures. It should stand to reason that was in response to the person who made the comment relevant to the response (It was Paul's Pythons who made that sterling comment).



my mistake on the rack/enclosure bit, as you didn't reply to anybody in specific but most of that message was aimed at me, i also thought that that was.[/QUOTE]



Sdaji said:


> [doublepost=1554875157,1554875108][/doublepost]
> 
> I really don't see anyone having made that claim.





Sdaji said:


> You've literally only ever kept one snake and only for a short time. I think that while you claim you can see things others can't, perhaps you can see that there are people who have been keeping many many thousands of snakes of a wide range of species and kept them 'thriving' for many generations over several decades, who perhaps can see things you can't.





Sdaji said:


> Good comments for the most part.
> 
> I think one of the most consistent aspects of the people in our hobby is that they like to bitch and complain, but it's nice to see here that most people are being pretty level headed.
> 
> Especially when you just recently got your first and still only snake, you really don't stand in a position to be abusing others, especially those with far, far more experience than you will ever have.





Pauls_Pythons said:


> Agree with Sdaji 100% here.
> 
> When you have had 20 years or so of keeping different species and done as much for this hobby as Brian has then feel free to be critical. (If you can support that criticism with some evidence to back it up).


i can definitely see how the thought of there being elitism driven by how long you've been in the hobby for exists, and people seem to usually use it to defend their's or other peoples actions or husbandry("oh well you've been in the hobby for less than me or this person, your opinion is less valid") but i don't see it as being done too much here, and i'd say half of the messages that could make somebody think that are valid here.


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## Sdaji (Apr 10, 2019)

Imported_tuatara said:


> my mistake on the rack/enclosure bit, as you didn't reply to anybody in specific but most of that message was aimed at me, i also thought that that was.



Easy mistake to make, no worries.



> can definitely see how the thought of there being elitism driven by how long you've been in the hobby for exists, and people seem to usually use it to defend their's or other peoples actions or husbandry("oh well you've been in the hobby for less than me or this person, your opinion is less valid") but i don't see it as being done too much here, and i'd say half of the messages that could make somebody think that are valid here.



I don't think it's unwarranted elitism to say that someone who just recently bought their only snake has no clue compared to one of the most experienced reptile breeders in the world. Of course the number of years and tangible amount of experience a person has had is not the only measure of skill and knowledge, but it's a fair, rough indicator. I mean, I certainly meet 25 year olds with more wisdom and knowledge than many 50+ year olds, so age doesn't correlate perfectly with wisdom or knowledge, but excluding cases of retarded people etc, you'll very rarely meet a 15 year old more wise than a 50 year old, and senility etc aside, you'll never meet a 5 year old more wise than a 70 year old. What we have here is a comparison between an absolute beginner with a grand total of a few snake months, complaining about someone with one of the highest snake year counts in the world! It's even more extreme than the 5 year old vs the 70 year old in a contest of wisdom.

Incidentally, if anyone reading is unfamiliar with the snake experience unit 'snake year', it's something snake legend Dave Barker came up with, or perhaps he adopted it from someone else and went with it. It's a pretty nice rough yardstick. Obviously not something particularly tangible or practical, but a nice conceptual idea.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 10, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Enclosures and racks are the same price and efficiency? Are you even trying to kid me or just trolling yourself? How far from reality can you get and still type it out in a post?



I really dont know why I waste my time.
All depends on individuals set up Sdaji and as you have no idea as to my set up how can you even begin to contradict?
My racks are not home made and cost twice the price of building my enclosures to house a similar number of animals. 

Oh, and by the way, I didnt state cost and efficiency. My statement was "I dont see any difference in the cost of keeping in enclosures or racks and I have several of each to compare".


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## ColourBombReptiles (Apr 10, 2019)

I think Brian is just very misunderstood at times. Snakes can have weird issues from birth defect, neurological issue, or even just look weird! Spider balls will continue no matter what. I do however get a bit iffy about the 2 sunrise theory, and the fact that Lucy’s sore was from escaping as later in the video she was fine, but daisy for example, she has always had an overbite, and the saliva came with it, and it looked bad because it sticks to the substrate which she didn’t used to have. 

Brian is just an ordanairy guy, sure he has tonnes of money, but that comes from a lifetime of hard work, sure he has the best job on earth, but he isn’t Brian the god or superhero, just Brian.


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## nick_75 (Apr 10, 2019)

I have been watching some of his videos on youtube to get a better understanding of him and his care. I've been aware of him for a long time but I've never bothered watching his videos in the past as his idea of the hobby is not mine.

After watching as much of the over dramatised crap that I could handle, I agree with some of the statements made by some of his detractors. The facility looks like a breeding farm, he could be banging out kittens, puppies or reptiles there. I think he is primarily focused on the income rather than anything else. This is the type of breeder I avoid.

I especially enjoined his video defending the Spider morph Ball pythons. I think he has taken some cues from the NRA's scare tactics. DON'T TAKE ME GUNS/SNAKES!!!!!!!!!! Typical of him to be defending his income.
I support the restriction that IHS has imposed, hopefully the restriction will be placed in other parts of the world. Should that restriction be placed on other morphs that are known to have health issues?

As to the questions placed about mental stimulation and UV provided to captive reptiles. They get both in the wild, why not provide both in captivity? I'll head off anyone here that may respond with sarcasm, with statements like 'why not provide ticks etc, they have them in the wild'. UV and mental stimulation are positives and beneficial to healthy life. Are they an absolute must? Maybe not, but I provide them anyway.


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 10, 2019)

I have been watching this thread and I wont enter the argument on a broad scale., but personally I don't like rack systems except for hatchlings. I prefer some sort of stimulation for my reptiles and yes I provide UV. I know that goes against lots of peoples opinions but they get it in the wild so why not in captivity.For clarity I keep several species of dragon,a few Antaresia and a pair of Varanus varius


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## Sdaji (Apr 10, 2019)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I really dont know why I waste my time.



+1



> All depends on individuals set up Sdaji and as you have no idea as to my set up how can you even begin to contradict?



Because regardless of any design you can imagine, it's simply not possible to make an enclosure as cheaply as a rack, or one as fast and time efficient to use as a rack, or one as space efficient as a rack.



> My racks are not home made and cost twice the price of building my enclosures to house a similar number of animals.



Congratulations on spending extra money? Um... good job! ...?
[doublepost=1554899995,1554899389][/doublepost]


nick_75 said:


> I have been watching some of his videos on youtube to get a better understanding of him and his care. I've been aware of him for a long time but I've never bothered watching his videos in the past as his idea of the hobby is not mine.
> 
> After watching as much of the over dramatised crap that I could handle, I agree with some of the statements made by some of his detractors. The facility looks like a breeding farm, he could be banging out kittens, puppies or reptiles there. I think he is primarily focused on the income rather than anything else. This is the type of breeder I avoid.



I don't think it's any secret his primary goal is breeding for profit, is there? It's literally a farm. Was there some sort of misunderstanding?



> I especially enjoined his video defending the Spider morph Ball pythons. I think he has taken some cues from the NRA's scare tactics. DON'T TAKE ME GUNS/SNAKES!!!!!!!!!! Typical of him to be defending his income.
> I support the restriction that IHS has imposed, hopefully the restriction will be placed in other parts of the world. Should that restriction be placed on other morphs that are known to have health issues?



I've defended him here, but I partially have to agree. I actually do agree that there is a slippery slope and if you allow them to take the spiders it sets a dangerous precedent for the hobby, and it's concerning you can't see that, but he definitely went a bit disingenuous when defending spiders, and took the whole thing too far, which partially validates your comments.



> As to the questions placed about mental stimulation and UV provided to captive reptiles. They get both in the wild, why not provide both in captivity? I'll head off anyone here that may respond with sarcasm, with statements like 'why not provide ticks etc, they have them in the wild'. UV and mental stimulation are positives and beneficial to healthy life. Are they an absolute must? Maybe not, but I provide them anyway.



Too right! They get predators and parasites in the wild, why not give them? They get starvation, live prey which fights back and leaves scars, etc. Nature kills the vast majority of snakes in their first few months - in captivity we can do better! This clearly shows that something existing naturally doesn't mean it's good, so you've shot down your own argument. UV doesn't give them benefits and can do them harm in various ways (over the years I've come across a fair number of cases of pythons being freaked out by UV lights making them stressed and refuse to feed, and normal behaviour resumed when the UV was removed, and UV does have negative effects even on species that benefit from it, so if something doesn't benefit from it, it makes sense not to give it to them). Mental stimulation doesn't give them better health, longevity, reproductive success, etc. It does probably develop their brain to some extent and if that makes you happy that's great and I don't think anyone is trying to stop you from doing it. Likewise, there's no reason to attack someone else who doesn't give them something unnecessary.
[doublepost=1554900317][/doublepost]


dragonlover1 said:


> I have been watching this thread and I wont enter the argument on a broad scale., but personally I don't like rack systems except for hatchlings.



I don't think anyone is going to tell you off for not using racks, and likewise, you shouldn't make an attack on someone else even if it's a passive aggressive attack.



> I prefer some sort of stimulation for my reptiles and yes I provide UV. I know that goes against lots of peoples opinions but they get it in the wild so why not in captivity.



Because it's expensive, potentially harmful, and unnecessary (some arguable exceptions, but certainly this is true for pythons, Varanids, etc). 'They get it in the wild' is not a valid reason to give them anything. Replicating wild conditions means the vast majority of your animals will die in a short amount of time. On average, of all snakes born/hatched in the wild, only two per female will grow up and manage to reproduce. The rest, all of them, die, most in their first few months. Clearly we don't actually want to replicate nature, because nature is a really, really harsh, horrible set of conditions which literally kills most individuals.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 10, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Because regardless of any design you can imagine, it's simply not possible to make an enclosure as cheaply as a rack, or one as fast and time efficient to use as a rack, or one as space efficient as a rack.



And again missed the point completely as there was no mention of building, time efficient or space efficient.
I have a very mixed set up including vision racks which while expensive are very easy and quick to put together. My hatchie racks are home made, cheap and simple but cant compare running costs as they run 24/7.




Sdaji said:


> Congratulations on spending extra money? Um... good job! ...?



Please remind me what gives you the right to criticise what others spend their money on. 

Im done.


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## Sdaji (Apr 11, 2019)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Please remind me what gives you the right to criticise what others spend their money on.



I wasn't criticising anyone on what they spend their money on, but we all have the right to do so because we have freedom of speech at least to that extent. Not that I'd have brought up the topic of our right to criticise, but you asked the question, strange as it was, that's your prerogative, so there's your answer 

I was facetiously congratulating you, which while clearly not really a heartfelt congratulation, wasn't criticism either. It was just bemusement at why you'd bother talking about how your racks were so expensive. Not that I care, not that I have a problem with it, I just... don't see the point or relevance in that context in bringing up that your racks were more expensive than alternatives. But again, you obviously seem to love them, so congratulations (genuinely minus the facetiousness this time).


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## LilithLeChat (Apr 11, 2019)

I’ll just leave this video in here. As an insomniac who spends a lot of time in the snake room in the middle of the night watching my snakes, I could not in good conscience keep them in tubs.


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## Herpetology (Apr 11, 2019)

I don’t think any arboreal species such as diamonds should be kept in tubs.

Apart from arboreal species, I don’t have a problem as long as food and water is offered, and they’re free from harm and danger


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## nick_75 (Apr 11, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> I've defended him here, but I partially have to agree. I actually do agree that there is a slippery slope and if you allow them to take the spiders it sets a dangerous precedent for the hobby, and it's concerning you can't see that, but he definitely went a bit disingenuous when defending spiders, and took the whole thing too far, which partially validates your comments.



Have no concern, I see the potential of what could develop. I have been at the loosing end of a similar situation in the past. I am a country boy and grew up hunting and fishing. We supplemented our diet with wild duck, pheasant, pigeon, goose, quail, rabbit, venison and various fresh water fish. A few of my favorite fire arms were semi-auto, which after the incident in Tasmania we had to hand in to be destroyed. The guns were purchased legally, registered, stored safely and always used responsibly but because of the negative actions of one person, we lost them. Even though I had never done anything irresponsible with a firearm I understood that this was for the greater good. It is the same situation with any morph/breed in the pet trade with known health issues. 

Buyers are more focused on having the eye candy rather than being fully aware of the risks to the well being of the animal and breeders take advantage of this. Does the breeder explain the potential health risks that the animal has? If mentioned, the severity is played down as Brian did. Don't risk the income.



Sdaji said:


> Too right! They get predators and parasites in the wild, why not give them? They get starvation, live prey which fights back and leaves scars, etc. Nature kills the vast majority of snakes in their first few months - in captivity we can do better! This clearly shows that something existing naturally doesn't mean it's good, so you've shot down your own argument.



I thought that I had headed off the sarcasm with my earlier quote........... I don't think I need to restate my stance here.



Sdaji said:


> UV doesn't give them benefits and can do them harm in various ways (over the years I've come across a fair number of cases of pythons being freaked out by UV lights making them stressed and refuse to feed, and normal behaviour resumed when the UV was removed, and UV does have negative effects even on species that benefit from it, so if something doesn't benefit from it, it makes sense not to give it to them).



What are the negative effects of UV? Do wild animals suffer these same effects?
Of course an animal had never been exposed to a UV light would be stressed and potentially go off it's food for a while after being blasted with a bright light. I'm sure if the UV was left in place, normal behavior would resume after the period of adjustment. My snakes are used to the UV lights. The lights have been in place since the snakes were very young. The lights turn on for an hour during the day, which does not alter the day/night cycle.



Sdaji said:


> Mental stimulation doesn't give them better health, longevity, reproductive success, etc.



Is not having mental stimulation detrimental to life? In reference to a reptile, probably not. Is there a possibility that mental stimulation in captivity has positive effect? I believe so.



Sdaji said:


> Likewise, there's no reason to attack someone else who doesn't give them something unnecessary.



There was no attack involved. I though we were debating. If you consider this an attack, I applaud your innocence of not knowing what a real attack entails.


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 11, 2019)

I personally don't agree with Brian's keeping methods. I like his proclivity to manhandle his reptiles in an attempt to gain more views on YouTube even less. But it's his hobby, his animals. What he does is his business, not mine. I find this to be a growing trend among reptile keepers. They like to criticize others. Perhaps it makes them feel superior. Or perhaps they genuinely dislike their target. Whatever the reason, I personally believe this reptile keeper elitism is an ugly stain on the current hobby and appears to be growing still. I admit I have indulged in it myself on a few occasions. I try my best not to do it anymore because it really serves no purpose other than spreading negativity. Life's too short to worry about what others are doing. 

The other day I took all my large carpet pythons outside to have a stretch, drink from the pond, and to doze in the sun while I was watering the garden. Was it necessary for their health and longevity? I don't know. All I know is that they "appeared" to enjoy their outing and it brought me pleasure. To me, there's more to reptile keeping than farming snakes and lizards for the next new and exciting morph at the bare minimum cost in stark easily sanitized enclosures. But that's my hobby. Am I going to impose my beliefs and my own ways of doing things on others? No. I really don't see the point. As far as I'm concerned people are free to do as they please, as long as it's not harming someone else.


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## LilithLeChat (Apr 11, 2019)

@Nero Egernia, agree 100%. I like watching my snakes’ behaviour, I like watching them interact with their environment, I like handling them. I’m trying to figure out their likes and dislikes and act accordingly. They’re alert and inquisitive and I believe they have a good quality of life.


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## Sdaji (Apr 11, 2019)

nick_75 said:


> Have no concern, I see the potential of what could develop. I have been at the loosing end of a similar situation in the past. I am a country boy and grew up hunting and fishing. We supplemented our diet with wild duck, pheasant, pigeon, goose, quail, rabbit, venison and various fresh water fish. A few of my favorite fire arms were semi-auto, which after the incident in Tasmania we had to hand in to be destroyed. The guns were purchased legally, registered, stored safely and always used responsibly but because of the negative actions of one person, we lost them. Even though I had never done anything irresponsible with a firearm I understood that this was for the greater good. It is the same situation with any morph/breed in the pet trade with known health issues.
> 
> Buyers are more focused on having the eye candy rather than being fully aware of the risks to the well being of the animal and breeders take advantage of this. Does the breeder explain the potential health risks that the animal has? If mentioned, the severity is played down as Brian did. Don't risk the income.



I quite disagree here, but it's getting a bit off topic, so I'll leave it.



> I thought that I had headed off the sarcasm with my earlier quote........... I don't think I need to restate my stance here.



But your reason was utterly invalid, you see?



> What are the negative effects of UV? Do wild animals suffer these same effects?



I already described some of them. Stressing out, not feeding, skin/eye damage, etc. Yes, wild animals do sometimes suffer from some of them. Humans also suffer from UV - Natural UV-caused skin cancer is a major killer of people in Australia. This naturally occurred in humans too, although to a lesser extent. Again, you seem to be missing the big concept that natural does not equal good. Natural temperature cycles are not perfect for reptiles. Natural feeding regimes are not perfect. Nothing about nature is optimal. Nature provides a harsh environment living things must cope with. In captivity the problems with UV can be worse because there's a UV light right up close in an enclosed space (as a conceptual explanation, try going outside on a bright sunny day, it generally is comfortable enough, but get a bright light 30cm from your face and it doesn't feel the same even if the measured intensity is less than the sunlight outside. Now imagine being stuck in a small box with that light never being more than whatever distance from your face). Now consider that artificial UV is not the same as natural UV and can in some cases be more harmful.



> Of course an animal had never been exposed to a UV light would be stressed and potentially go off it's food for a while after being blasted with a bright light. I'm sure if the UV was left in place, normal behavior would resume after the period of adjustment. My snakes are used to the UV lights. The lights have been in place since the snakes were very young. The lights turn on for an hour during the day, which does not alter the day/night cycle.



Mostly I've seen it with young snakes. It's not always a problem and not all problems are obvious enough for humans to be able to notice, but since no one has ever demonstrating pythons benefiting from UV, and it can be a problem, and it is an expense and effort etc, it makes sense not to use it. If you want to, hey, your animals, your choice, but it definitely makes no sense to complain about anyone else not using it.



> Is not having mental stimulation detrimental to life? In reference to a reptile, probably not. Is there a possibility that mental stimulation in captivity has positive effect? I believe so.



Depends what you mean by 'a positive effect'. Again, no one is going to complain about you doing it your way.



> There was no attack involved. I though we were debating. If you consider this an attack, I applaud your innocence of not knowing what a real attack entails.



See, right there, that was an attack. I'm not saying it hurt me, I'm not saying I care, I will say that it failed to do what you hoped, but it was an attack. A dweeby little passive aggressive attack, you made a cowardly and pathetic attempt to pretend it wasn't an attack, but it was an attack. I don't expect my counter attack to hurt you or anything, I don't think it's a big or strong or heartfelt attack, but it is an attack and I won't lie and say it wasn't.
[doublepost=1554967399,1554967187][/doublepost]


Nero Egernia said:


> I find this to be a growing trend among reptile keepers. They like to criticize others. Perhaps it makes them feel superior.



This is it, it's virtue signaling. It's saying "Look at me, I found someone I can attack in order to feel better about myself and look better to you. If you wish you may join me and we can attack this person together, making him a common enemy allowing us to feel superior together"

This is a basic human trait which has always existed, but is becoming a more common trend across almost all demographics because of the social dynamics of the modern world.


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## nick_75 (Apr 11, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> I quite disagree here, but it's getting a bit off topic, so I'll leave it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is going around in circles with no clear end in sight. You believe I am not understanding your point of view, I believe you are not understanding my point of view.

Yet I will state one more time. I am not complaining, I am adding to a discussion. I am not attacking you or anyone, I am adding to a discussion. I find your comment below pathetic and am growing weary of communicating with you and your defensive, overly sensitive and arrogant demeanour. I ask you to act like a clear headed, responsible adult and cease the petulant outbursts when ever someone disagrees with you and accuse them of attacking you. If you've ever been truly attacked physically or verbally you would understand the difference and realise that I am not attacking you. I have found communicating with you frustrating but I have never felt that I was under attack from you. We are having a discussion not squaring up against each other in a bar. I come and go on this site, spending periods where I really can't be bothered logging on. Namely because of over bearing, over opinionated people like you that ruin what could be interesting discussions.
If you don't like what someone is posting, or you think you are under attack, try this. Turn off your computer instead of screaming blue murder.
I will now be going into self imposed exile for a period of time as I have had enough of people like you. I will be back though, please improve your disposition. 


Sdaji said:


> See, right there, that was an attack. I'm not saying it hurt me, I'm not saying I care, I will say that it failed to do what you hoped, but it was an attack. A dweeby little passive aggressive attack, you made a cowardly and pathetic attempt to pretend it wasn't an attack, but it was an attack. I don't expect my counter attack to hurt you or anything, I don't think it's a big or strong or heartfelt attack, but it is an attack and I won't lie and say it wasn't.


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## Sdaji (Apr 11, 2019)

nick_75 said:


> This is going around in circles with no clear end in sight. You believe I am not understanding your point of view, I believe you are not understanding my point of view.
> 
> Yet I will state one more time. I am not complaining, I am adding to a discussion. I am not attacking you or anyone, I am adding to a discussion. I find your comment below pathetic and am growing weary of communicating with you and your defensive, overly sensitive and arrogant demeanour. I ask you to act like a clear headed, responsible adult and cease the petulant outbursts when ever someone disagrees with you and accuse them of attacking you. If you've ever been truly attacked physically or verbally you would understand the difference and realise that I am not attacking you. I have found communicating with you frustrating but I have never felt that I was under attack from you. We are having a discussion not squaring up against each other in a bar. I come and go on this site, spending periods where I really can't be bothered logging on. Namely because of over bearing, over opinionated people like you that ruin what could be interesting discussions.
> If you don't like what someone is posting, or you think you are under attack, try this. Turn off your computer instead of screaming blue murder.
> I will now be going into self imposed exile for a period of time as I have had enough of people like you. I will be back though, please improve your disposition.



Quite an ironic post, don't you think?


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 11, 2019)

It would seem ironic that you Sdaji choose a turnip as your avatar because you seem to be the most bitter and sour individual to grace the internet. It doesn't matter what anyone says or how they say it ,you find fault.I simply said I personally don't like tubs but you somehow turned that into a passive aggressive attack ??? and you did a similar thing to virtually every respondent to this thread. Originally you took umbrage with the OP(with some degree that had sympathy with readers) but then denigrated almost every other person who dared to reply.
I'm pretty sure you have no friends but then you probably don't want any as you are happy in the company of your multiple nasty personalities.
Goodbye and good luck .


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## LilithLeChat (Apr 11, 2019)

OP has freely admitted that she’s both very young and very inexperienced as a snake keeper. She has found online two opposing camps, Brian’s and his critic’s. With no experience to accurately judge either side’s point of view, she has gone with her gut and decided she doesn’t like Brian’s methods, and expressed it here.
If she’s wrong about her opinions, this could have been a teachable moment where it could have been explained why she’s wrong. Instead she was attacked immediately. And for what? For not liking a YouTube celebrity who doesn’t know and couldn’t care less about a teenage Australian girl who doesn’t like his methods?

For the record, I’ve only seen a few of his videos, and nothing from his critics. His videos pop up on my YouTube feed because of whatever algorithm YouTube uses. I’m not interested because he’s a breeder in US dealing with snakes we can’t have in Australia, but I’ve watched a few vids because of clickbite-y thumbnails. I find that he manufactures drama and sensationalism for the views, rather than actually try and educate.
And yeah, I don’t like his methods either. But it’s no skin off my nose how he, or any other breeder, keeps his snakes. All I care about is that when I buy a snake, it is healthy, doesn’t have any hidden genetic or congenital problems, and that the breeder is approachable for any post-sale advice, tips and hints.
How they treat their breeding stock is on their conscience. And I’ll happily pay more if that means the breeder is investing money in better living condition for their snakes.


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