# Cat thread



## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

Come on guys, this is getting a bit silly if we can't even talk about cats without a whole thread being deleted. Either that or it has been moved under a rock somewhere. I think this is moderation taken a little too far.


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## Gilleni (Mar 28, 2006)

cant the mods delete bad posts?

Seems like laziness to me, lol


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

was that my bad? wasn't trying to start an argument, just being diplomatic, sorry boa!


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## NoOne (Mar 28, 2006)

Well lets start talking about it here then  
I was just about to post this but it was deleted.

Before people start spouting off about being animal lovers and that all animals are great blah blah blah i have a question......how many people here step on spiders if they find them in their house?
Bex do you squash spiders? I know thats an extreme but i think talking about white man coming here is off the planet considering this thread is about cats killing wildlife.

I don't hear anyone crying about foxes, cane toads and rabbits being killed for the same reasons, if we had feral populations of snakes or some kind of reptile (which we do in some places) if i got the chance i would knock them off as well.
If this persons cats has gone feral then it's a pest regardless of which way you look at it.
If i was in the traders situation i would be doing the same thing. I can't see anything wrong with it.
Provided feral animals are killed humanely then i don't have a problem with it.


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## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

We are mostly all adults here and we should at least be able to talk about these things and as gilleni says why not just delete offensive posts ?


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

I am severly allergic to bees, but if I see one drowning, I rescue it, with bare hands if need be. I cry for all 'feral' animals everywhere being killed. It's not their fault they are exotic, if only we could time warp back to stop it all from happening.

Every animal has a right to be here


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## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

I certainly make no secret of the fact I hate cats, if people want to keep one then fine BUT keep it inside or in a large cat run. I will say again if a cat comes onto my property it will quite likely die, humanely.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

Not every animal has a right to be here... cats are one


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## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

Nina, I respect your opinion but please there must be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. I hate killing Cane Toads but I kill everyone I can find. Every animal does not in fact have a right to be here, every animal deserves to be treated humanely and if that means killing them then that should be done humanely.


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## NoOne (Mar 28, 2006)

You know by saving feral animals your just killing more of our natives, I lived in Mudgee for 14yrs and fishing was my main past time, when you see all your native fish being over run with dirty european carp it's very sad.
I must have kill thousands of carp over the years but it had no effect at all.

It's not their fault they are ferals but it's not the native animals fault they have been invaded by ferals, which we did by settling here, so the way i see it is why not right the wrongs of our settlers.


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

I dont mean 'here' as in australia, I mean globally. 

I do agree that feral animals need to be exterminated, but it should be very quick, and humane. NOT by throwing bricks at them, possibly injuring them, and then them dying a slow, painful death.


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## alby (Mar 28, 2006)

hehe i love wen things get heated it makes my day...i cant say im a fan for cats either....sorry any cat lovers out theere


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

topic "today is a nice day"

no its not! debate debate debate!

We should all join debating teams (not me though, I just get angry!)


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't see the point in keeping them all they do is sleep,eat,crap,leave fur everywhere,kill natives,spray everywhere.
Atleast dogs are loyal and can be used as guide dogs.

As i said send them back to where they came from


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## Jason (Mar 28, 2006)

i want them gone, along with rabbits mice, rat, foxes, camels and all the other exotics unless they can live sustainably in the environment then get rid of em.


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## alby (Mar 28, 2006)

hehe u just keep on pumping yayo :mrgreen:


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

the white race?


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

Are you on the same planet as us or are you spacing out or something?


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## OuZo (Mar 28, 2006)

> Not every animal has a right to be here... cats are one



You are another.

Sorry couldn't resist :lol:



> Provided feral animals are killed humanely then i don't have a problem with it.



Bricks ain't nice though don't you think?  I have slowly come to terms with the idea of killing feral animals but I will never agree with throwing things at them or deliberately trying to harm them. If people feel they must try to save the world do it humanely at least!


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## trader (Mar 28, 2006)

NinaPeas said:


> I do agree that feral animals need to be exterminated, but it should be very quick, and humane. NOT by throwing bricks at them, possibly injuring them, and then them dying a slow, painful death.



:cry: :cry: :cry: I find it really very, VERY sad when I watch the birds or that poor lil ringtail dieing a slow and painful death too...by being tortured by the cat (as I watched yesterday, my heart still aches for that beautiful adult possum now with a broken back) minding his own business sleeping in the tree as they do during the day.. :cry: 

Judy


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## NinaPeas (Mar 28, 2006)

I used to rescue, and rehabilitate all these animals, I know how painful it is.

Bottom line, my FINAL point: I dont think throwing BRICKS at an animal is the answer. Catch it, have it put down, whether its native, feral or an alien from mars.


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## Kersten (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh pmfsl Ouzo :roll: I agree with you, it's one thing to have a problem with feral animals and state your reasons logically and show your justifications (such as Boa or Duga). It's another thing entirely to talk about torturing animals needlessly. If you feel you have to do it, do it humanely. Carrying on about killing them in an inhumane manner just because a person doesn't personally like them just makes people sound bloodthirsty and to be honest, childish. I don't like dogs much, but I don't go around throwing bricks at them. And even when I hear of them mauling people, I know I'd prefer to know that the poor animals were put down humanely.


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

dugadugabowbow said:


> Bex do you squash spiders? I know thats an extreme but i think talking about white man coming here is off the planet considering this thread is about cats killing wildlife.



Funny you say that Steve and Nome - nope, I don't kill ANY spiders.
Luke will vouch for me in this. He is scared of them and I pick them all up on the cobweb broom and relocate them on the trees outside. 
I love all animals - even though spiders are insects 

And no, my point is VERY relevant. White people bought across cats, foxes, cane toads, rabbits, rats, even those nasty star fish that hitch-hike under our boats. We're to blame full stop.
And since the name of the thread was 'cats don't belong here', I think that saying 'white people don't belong here either' is a pretty good observation 
Bex


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## peterescue (Mar 28, 2006)

cat thread my a_rse. More like catty thread.


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## AntaresiaLady (Mar 28, 2006)

I am white, and I agree with BeknLukes post 



> I think that saying 'white people don't belong here either' is a pretty good observation



We white people, (well not mine personally) invaded/conquered/whatever you want to call it - this country we now call home....much like all the animals (and illnesses for that matter). I think the 00,000's of years the indigenous people we here beats 200 odd years. I don't believe their post was meant to be racial, just an observation. 

I may be wrong and your mileage may vary.


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## zulu (Mar 28, 2006)

*re Cat*

Thought herp trader was too considerate and nice about these cats,they should have been whacked before they could break the possys back


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## peterescue (Mar 28, 2006)

ok, any reponse to those statements will automatically be construed as racist wont they. Do I lock it now or do you want to go the jugular.


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## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

What would be construed as racist ? We as white people are all to blame for what is happening to some degree or another, there's nothing racist about it.


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm white - so it's definately NOT racist :lol:
Damn it's funny how people interpret things LMAO
They're welcome to go for my white englishxirishxfrenchxgerman jugular :lol:
My point was that we ARE to blame for these things. And I DO have a problem with foxes, rabbits, and kangaroos being killed. Difference is, people aren't on here talking about it all the time. It's always cats. I don't even keep cats and I just think that it's wrong that people can think that it's 'ok' to hurt them or kill them because they have come into their backyard. It's sad for those people really.
Either way, I just thought that I would throw out a different perspective. Looks like it sparked some interest.
I didn't get to see any responses to my post in the old thread - did I miss anything juicy


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## Kersten (Mar 28, 2006)

I think Peters point may have been that anyone arguing against the idea that we are to blame for it would be considered racist.
Did that make sense? :?


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

BTW - thanks AntaresiaLady


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## Nome (Mar 28, 2006)

good on ya, Bex, I'm happy to hear that 

Ninapeas, the same question....what do you do if you find a spider in your house?

I really get sick of people saying that they love all animals, but in reality, they only love the cutesy ones. When I used to post on this site regularly, there were many mean comments about my spiders, how all they needed was a can of baygon...blah blah. Now, I really really hate cats, I don't like even being in my parent's house around there's, but it helps me to understand that the way I feel about cats, is actually the way most people feel about my spiders. Cats are the only animal I truly hate, I like cane toads more, and the reason is that they kill the wildlife, and they way they tortuously kill it. They are relentless, they can survive a phenonamol amount of circumstances, and the more they kill, the worse they get. They really should be licensed, only people that can keep them indoors can own them, but better still, have them irradicated altogether. 

Yet after all the damage cats have done, it's still not acceptable to kill them. I have baited cats on my property before, I'm sure they were pets of someone, but night after night, they were knocking off the sleeping local wild king parrots that roosted in my backyard. They didn't even eat the birds, just seemed to like killing them and ripping them up. Once the cats responsible were gone, I found no more dead things lying around.


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## dino (Mar 28, 2006)

i used to live on a island swarming with cats (do cats swarm or herd maby a school of cats ) it was a major problem they would break into the house and defecate everywhere a new aluminium fly screen would only last a few nights the problem was caused by a natural lagoon that would fill up with fish in high tide and leave them traped in low tide this was a seasonal thing during times of no fish the cats would besiege the house like something out of cremlins, you would wake up to the sound of glass smashing in the kitchen and find three or more cats standing their ground looking like they are going to pounch at any minute they wouldn,t simply run away just because your there swearing at them you need to throw something at them ,the way they were delt with is with a length of steal trace loaded with gang hooks baited with fish and secured to a tree or something a bell should be used so you know when you have to go put down the cat and this method could catch a goanna or something so consider that first if your going to do this .if everyone is keeping there cats inside like they say then their cat will be fine .i don,t hear that its not the cats fault crap its just doing what comes naturally(well so am i) or this i don,t even kill spiders crap .if there was a paralis tick,leech,botfly,etc on your face would you leave it there to do what comes naturally did you not take worming tablets when you were a kid do you drive a car and somehow avoid hitting all the bugs.(oh i see something s just have to die, is this logic based on a size scale you need to be this tall to have a right to live ) morbo hates cats they give me gas


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## peterescue (Mar 28, 2006)

its is racist by the mere fact that the arguement is based on race. That is the first point. The second is that to argue that white invasion was not a bad thing will be construed as racist. The concept of race is by its very nature racist.


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## Retic (Mar 28, 2006)

Nome, good for you. I love spiders by the way. :lol: 

As a property owner I consider I have every right to kill a cat if it comes into my yard to kill an animal. I wouldn't of course kill a fruit bat or possum or womabt as they have every right to be here. I have found half eaten remains of various birds, small animals and even pink tongue skinks. It is a waste of time telling the owners as it is never their cat that kills the animals. They come in, they die.


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

- EDIT!! Just to clear things up, this smiley is at Nome, not at the above post 
Luke HATES that I give all young spiders asylum here until they're big enough to fend for themselves outside lol.
I just can't bring myself to kill them because we built our house here, you know?? That's just the way that I feel about - Luke doesn't agree :lol:
I too am ALL for cat runs and cats being kept indoors, and people walking their cats on leashes. I think that it's the responsible way to keep them because they DO kill other animals. God - my dogs would have a very sore bum if they ever killed anything and that's my cute fluffy furry puppies-dawgs lol
Sorry if anyone misinterpreted ANY of my postes as racial, again I can assure you that they're not lol. My apologies 
Bex


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## peterescue (Mar 28, 2006)

thankyou


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

You're welcome my cutesy voutsey fluffy wuffy Peter


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## sevrum (Mar 28, 2006)

can cats transfer disease if fed to pythons? :?


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## purplefunkything (Mar 28, 2006)

Where did the first part of the thread go?? I'm assuming it was deleted eh?

I used to work in outback Cloncurry, Qld where we had these cool little lizards we called Ta Ta lizards (dunno what their real name was), because they 'waved' their feet in the air. They were really friendly little critters. One such wee chap befriended my ex (who isnt an animal person), and not me which made him feel rather chuffed. After a couple of months of regular visits he didnt turn up but a number of cats were seen in the area. As the lizard was too little to breed the sums were easy to figure out. Within 6 months of setting traps Rob had caught (and humanly put down) 60 feral cats and there were plently more seen at night. It is sad all-round. :cry:


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 28, 2006)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> can cats transfer disease if fed to pythons?


if the cat is healthy it shouldnt be a prob,,ferals would have just about everything possible though i should think
baz


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## Samma3l (Mar 28, 2006)

I think people taking the law into their own hands is wrong. If you see a any animal in your yard that obviously could be a pet i.e specifically a cat or dog, then it should be handed into the animal impounding authority in your area. They have the means to determine if the animal has an owner or if it is (likely) feral through the magical wonders of RFID microchipping. 

It is not your responsibility to destroy these animals simply because they venture on your property, in most towns and cities it is in fact illegal to do so. Heavy fines and prison seneces have been handed down, especially in cases where the perpetrator has killed the animals in an inhumane manner, such as a brick to the head.

This mostly applies to people who live in fairly populated areas, in further outback areas then culling practices for feral animals should be employed similar to those already being used for the control of feral cats and dogs.



While people are getting caught up in the whole predatory nature of domestic cats, I remind you that Australia once had its own predatory native wildlife (tassie tiger, native cats spring to mind) so it is not as if the native fauna havent ever had predatory stresses, although I do acknowledge that introduced species may have a more widespread effect. I think that it can be attributed to a higher concentration of numbers, not just of the animals themselves but of human population as well, however.


On the issue of the exotic nature of the animals, I argue that it all comes down to a matter of time. After all, the dingo is an introduced animal though we consider it native and there are many people here who are of non-indidgenous origin who consider themselves native to Australia. Alas, even those called indigenous migrated here at some time, after Gondwana had disintegrated.


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## NoOne (Mar 28, 2006)

Reminds us but that was a long long time ago, you can't tell me that things are the same as they were 40 000-60 000 years ago, It's a tiny bit different now :lol: Hell we had large lion like cats roaming around the joint.
The tassie tiger lived in tassie (yes there were others way back) besides all that they were native part of the enviroment that could sustain it's self, feral animal numbers rise becuase they find a habitat where they can thrive without predators.


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## purplefunkything (Mar 28, 2006)

dugadugabowbow said:


> feral animal numbers rise becuase they find a habitat where they can thrive without predators.



sounds like humans eh....


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## dino (Mar 28, 2006)

During routine fieldwork, fresh regurgitated stomach contents are occasionally
found. One feral female cat* had the following undigested and partially digested
contents in her stomach when found at 7:25 AM on 14 April 1995:
1 western pigmy possum, 3 thicktail geckos, 1 New Holland
Honeyeater, 1 Cricket, 1 Eastern Spine bill, 4 mice, 6 skinks, 1 tiger
snake and the remains of a wallaby.
*This individual was first observed drinking at waterhole. She was having convulsions and
died shortly after. Death was symptomatic of snakebite.
Fig 5.
Fresh regurgitated material from feral cat 16 September 1997. Contents include thick tail gecko, native
bush rat, and cockroach.
Food diversity
Food species used by feral cats on the Pelican Lagoon Peninsula
* determined from fresh scat using bone, hair, scale, feather or body parts
# identified from observed predation / carcass remains
= prey species brought to domestic cat owners by pets from other parts of the island
+ introduced species
Common name
Scientific name or group
Mammals
Aitkens dunnart = (1979)
Sminthopsis aitkenie
brown rat *# = +
Rattus norvegicus
5
Page 6
brushtail possum *#
Trichosurus vulpecula
bush rat *# =
Rattus fuscipes
goat *# + (scavenging)
Capra hircus
house mouse *# = +
Mus domesticus
lesser long-eared bat *
Nyctophilus geoffroyi
little pigmy possum *# =
Cercartetus lepidus
sheep*# + (scavenging)
Ovis
short beaked echidna *#
Tachyglossus aculeatus multi-
aculeatus
southern brown bandicoot *# =
Isodon obesulus
wallaby *
Macropus eugenii
western grey kangaroo *# (scavenging)
Macropus fuligninosus
fuliginosus
western pigmy possum =
Cercartetus concinnus
Birds
black tail native hen #
Gallinula ventralis
brush bronze wing pigeon *#
Phaps elegans
buff banded rail #
Rallus philippensis
cresent honeyeater *
Phylidonyris pyrrhoptera
eastern spine bill * =
Acanthorhynchus tenuirostris
grey fantail * =
Rhipidura fuliginosa
grey shrike thrush *
Colluricincla harmonica
hooded plover #
Charadrius cucullatus
house sparrow * = +
Passer domesticus
little blue penguin *# =
Eudyptula minor
masked Lapwing #
Vanellus miles novaehollandiae
peacock # +
Pavo cristatus
purple gaped honeyeater *
Lichenostomus cratitus
rainbow lorikeet # =
Trichoglossus haematodus
red browed firetail * =
Aegintha temporalis
red watyle bird * =
Anthochaera carunculata
restless flycatcher *
Myiagra inquieta
richards pipit # =
Anthus novaeseelandiae
rock parrot *#
Neophema petrophila
scarlet robin * =
Petroica multicolor
silver eye * =
Zosterops lateralis
spotted pardalote *
Pardalotus punctatus
spotted turtle dove * # = +
Streptopelia chinensis
striated pardalote * =
Pardalotus striatus
striated thornbill *
Acanthiza lineata
stubble quail * =
Coturnix pectoralis
superb fairy wren *# =
Malurus cyaneus
thick knee curlew *#
Burhinus grallarius
western whipbird #
Psophodes nigrogularis
white browed scrubwren *
Sericornis frontalis
white eared honeyeater *
Lichenostomus leucotis
willie wagtail *# =
Rhipidura leucophrys
yellow wing honeyeater
(New Holland) *# =
Phylidonyris novaehollandiae
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Page 7
Reptiles
four toed skink *
Hemiergis peronii
lined worm lizard*
Aprasia striolata
marbled gecko *
Phyllodactylus marmoratus
pigmy copperhead * =
Austrelaps sp
Rosenberg’s goanna *# =
Varanus rosenbergi
thick-tail gecko * =
Underwoodisaurus milii
three toed skink *
Hemiergis decresiensis
tiger snake *# =
Notechis ater niger
Whites skink *
Egernia whitii
Amphibians
brown frogglet *
Ranidella signifera
marbled frog *
Limnodynastes tasmaniensis
Insects
cockroach *
Blattodea
cricket *
Grylloidea
grasshopper *
Acrididae
walking stick *
Phasmatidae
Feral cat in live trap
Remains of cat killed echidna.
Cat kills are characterised by the
body being turned inside out.
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Page 8
8
Predation
Research with Rosenberg’s Goanna (Green, Rismiller, McKelvey) has shown that feral cats
are persistent predators. They frequently catch subadult goannas, opportunistically kill adults
and in two cases have been documented to deliberately stalk and kill adult goannas. “…At
1600 hrs on 27 March 1996 we were radio tracking a female goanna which had been known
in the study population for seventeen years. The signal came from an area that she seldom
used. She was tracked to the entrance of a cat den in a mallee root burrow. The freshly killed 
carcass was found with six other dead goannas. All animals had been dead less than six
hours. All had been killed with a single bite in the back of the head. Five were known
individuals with implanted identification microchips. Using daily tracking records and home
range maps for each individual goanna it was calculated that the greatest distance of probable
catch from the cat den as approximately two kilometres. Circumstances suggest that the
female cat had prior knowledge of each goannas activity pattern (at this time of year, many
goannas have a daily foraging circuit) and had deliberately stalked, killed and brought the
prey back to her kittens. The female cat was trapped and over the next five days six kittens
were trapped or shot at the den (unpublished data, PLRC 1996).”
From the study sites on the Pelican Lagoon peninsula feral cats have killed about 10% of the
Rosenberg’s goanna study population. Since 1991, feral cats have killed six radio
transmittered adult echidnas from one study site. In the same study site up to 20% of each
years burrow young echidnas were killed by feral cats. This is in addition to the natural
predation from goannas of 10%.


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## nathanbrisvegas (Mar 28, 2006)

i agree with boa if the animal is on your property and it ferral i think u should be aloud to kill it humanely and that sux about ripped up natives on ur property


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## herptrader (Mar 28, 2006)

In the interests of clarity I think I should repost the original post from the original thread that got "moderated".



> A Cats don’t belong in Australia rant…
> 
> If you think that cats make good pets for Aussie families it is probably best you skip to the next thread now.
> 
> ...


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## herptrader (Mar 28, 2006)

nathanbrisvegas said:


> i agree with boa if the animal is on your property and it ferral i think u should be aloud to kill it humanely and that sux about ripped up natives on ur property



I agree that there is some middle ground on this issue.

Yes the situation needs to be handled as humanely as possible. In this instance we are talking about a rogue animal that has killed and maimed by my estimates over a hundred animals and birds. We have tried manyu humae options and got nowhere. As the ranger indicated this animal has probably been caught in a trap before and is basically imune to trapping. We have talked with the owner and the ranger so the option of throwiong a rock at it had become a last resort. It is unlikely to kill it or alas even harm it but with a bit of luck, given a good hit will discourage it from our yard in the future.

If it were a human criminal necesary force is often used to aprehend them... once they have been caught they get the humane treatment. Resisting arrest they may gat pepper spray, zapped with a tazar or a bullet in the brain.

I agree it is not the best option but it is legal and if one maimed cat can save hundreds of maimed animals that have little defence against it tossing a rock in its general direction is something I am willing to try.


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## Magpie (Mar 28, 2006)

C'mon, we need cats, where would we get kitty litter from if we didn't have cats to make it with?


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## herptrader (Mar 28, 2006)

NinaPeas said:


> I am severly allergic to bees, but if I see one drowning, I rescue it, with bare hands if need be. I cry for all 'feral' animals everywhere being killed. It's not their fault they are exotic, if only we could time warp back to stop it all from happening.
> 
> Every animal has a right to be here



Native bees get that treatment.

Honey bees also get that treatment being a domesticated farmed food animal... (hard call)

Spiders etc. We usually let roam free. Kind of like seeing huntsmen in our house the seem to keep the daddy long legs in control.

European wasps I have found the if you flick them hard while in flight they are not hard to hit and usually are dissabled.

I think that I see the ecosystem, maintaining genetic diversity and preserving environments and habitat as far more important than allowing any feral animal to roam where it does not belong.


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## zulu (Mar 28, 2006)

*re Cat*

We had a cat that kept spewing and the vet couldnt fix him so my brother and i drew straws on who would wack the cat and he got wacked with a .22 in the head,didnt feel a thing


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## SLACkra (Mar 28, 2006)

> even those nasty star fish that hitch-hike under our boats.



if you are saying the crown of thorns starfish THAT IS A NATIVE SPECIES!!! the reason for them become some what of a plague is because of extremely low quality run off causing more algae which increase the chance that the baby crown of thorns will survive and get big and start eating corals. 

i was very much on the kill on sight thing for some species of spider now adays well lets say i found a huntsman in our house who had dady long leg cobwebs on him. i carefully removed the debris and fed him a grasshopper and sent him on his way. 

however for example where i work at a stockfeed spider killing is fairly on sight depending on species. huntsmans i relocate, daddylonglegs are killed on sight(there are thousands of them, good stomp on em and instant death what i consider humane) so are redbacks. i found some weird light coloured spider a couple weeks back so i relocated it as i had no idea what it was and it was the first one i had ever seen.



> I think that I see the ecosystem, maintaining genetic diversity and preserving environments and habitat as far more important than allowing any feral animal to roam where it does not belong.



i agree, and i wreckon after having to deal with some maimed birds and dieing possums i would definatly be hucking small stones at em to get them out of the yard while i design a better trap.

andrew


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## AntaresiaLady (Mar 28, 2006)

Well we have cats, but they are inside ALL THE TIME- they are never allowed outside. When we move to a larger property, they will have a special 'outside' cat room. It will be made of net, be escape proof, and predator proof. They will have access to it through a 'hatch' in a door (or wall) depending on where we end up putting it. Its hard to explain how it will be built....

I don't advocate any cat owners allowing their cats to roam free (we have about four neighbours cats who prowl around here at night). I'm tempted to catch them and send them to the pound to teach the owners a lesson, however I then worry that the cost to retrieve them will deter their owners, and they will be put down. Many of you will say thats a good thing- but personally I don't like the thought of any animal being put down because their owners are MORONS. 

But I also need to weigh up the cost to native animals everynight these cats are allowed to roam free, so I think I'm going to put out a flyer in my neighbourhood to encourage them to bring their cats inside (if not all the time, then at least at night time), and to make sure their animals have bells on to help alert any native animals to their presence.


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## Fuscus (Mar 28, 2006)

SLACkra said:


> ...if you are saying the crown of thorns starfish ...


SW, being Victorian, is proberly talking about these
http://www.cetec-foray.com.au/RiskeNews/Special11.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/starfish/default.htm


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## zulu (Mar 28, 2006)

soulweaver;


> hows that even close to being funny?


Not meant to be funny ime serious it happened,when they gotta go they gotta go.


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## nathanbrisvegas (Mar 28, 2006)

herp trader try tackling it  and then putting it in the gas chanber for the rats  its humane and give u a workout  


good luck with it hope no natives get hurt in the meantime  

thanks
nathan


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## Spike14 (Mar 28, 2006)

after you gas it and freeze it for 6 weeks u have urself feed ofr a big olive :twisted:


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

Fuscus said:


> SLACkra said:
> 
> 
> > ...if you are saying the crown of thorns starfish ...
> ...



Thanks Fuscus - it's that yellow one that I am talking about. I had no idea of what it was called though... I just remember that afew years back when in Hobart, I hardly saw them in the waters there. Now they're EVERYWHERE!!!
And common Slacky - you should know me better then that!! :lol:
Bex


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## SLACkra (Mar 28, 2006)

mmm instant brain distruction is pretty human me things. when i went to a ceminar about rescueing native animals we had a couple sheets with pictures of animals and where to shoot them! for snakes you step on their heads intantly crushing the brain. 

andrew


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## TrueBlue (Mar 28, 2006)

here pussy pussy pussy


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 28, 2006)

> SW, being Victorian, is proberly talking about these


we pull heaps of pacific stars out of the water around mornington pier,100s,
problem is some fisherman think the nativeones are the pests and kill them to..
pacific stars have 5 arms and you kill them when you see them,,the native have between 7 and 11,these are the good guys.,.
ps .a brick would be a quick death for a cat but you would want to be up close :wink:


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## purplefunkything (Mar 28, 2006)

The truth about cats and dogs....are you a dog person or a cat person or neither?

Diary of a Dog and Cat

As seen in a dog's diary :

7 am - Oh boy! A walk! My favourite!

8 am - Oh boy! Dog food! My favourite!

9 am - Oh boy! The kids! My favourite!

Noon - Oh boy! The yard! My favourite!

2 pm - Oh boy! A car ride! My favourite!

3 pm - Oh boy! The kids! My favourite!

4 pm - Oh boy! Playing ball! My favourite!

6 pm - Oh boy! Welcome home Mom! My favourite!

7 pm - Oh boy! Welcome home Dad! My favourite!

8 pm - Oh boy! Dog food! My favourite!

9 pm - Oh boy! Tummy rubs on the couch! My favourite!

11 pm - Oh boy! Sleeping in my people's bed! My favourite!



As seen in a cat's diary:

Day 183 of my captivity... My captors continued to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects.
They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction that I get from clawing their furniture.
Tomorrow I will eat another houseplant.

Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded - must try this at the top of the stairs.

In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favourite chair. I must remember to try this on their bed.

Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body in an attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear in their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat Iwas. Hmmm, that did not work according to plan ...

There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the food. More important, I overheard that my confinement was due to my powers of inducing "allergies." I must learn what this is and how I mayuse it to my advantage.

I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The
dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit.

The bird, on the other hand, has got to be an informant and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room, his safety is assured. But I have patience, I can wait, it is only a matter of time...


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## Fuscus (Mar 28, 2006)

Well done PFT


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## Dicco (Mar 28, 2006)

I couldn't care less what the animal is, if it is causing damage to the environment or our wildlife it should be done away with. Indian Mynahs are almost the most common bird here now, most of the Natives have dissapeared in a few years alone, I'm organising a trap soon and all feral birds caught will be euthanised.

If a cat comes into my yard and starts killing Native wildlife I'll give the owners a warning, but if it isn't resolved the animal will be disposed of. Cats should not be allowed to destroy our Native fauna, Cats are one of the worst intoduced species and I will not hesitate removing one to save the countless natives it would destroy unsustainably, un-nessicarily and in some cases quite cruely.

If there were feral snakes I would dispose of them too if needed, as with any other feral animal damaging our country, they're all the same.


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## SLACkra (Mar 28, 2006)

yes i must agree quite comical, well down purplefunkything!

also i would like to stress the point that as far as i am concerned no cat is a demesticated cat, they all have the killer instinct which you can't train out of them! dogs however you can train to leave other animal alone and to make them see that they're not food or toys.

andrew


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## Sdaji (Mar 28, 2006)

If cats have nine lives, why do I only need to squash them once? It even works on newborn kittens; try it for yourself, as many times as it takes to be sure.... then do it a few more times...each day.


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## peterescue (Mar 28, 2006)

jeezuz Dino, thats an astounding piece of information.
See, its fun being good isnt it?


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## herptrader (Mar 28, 2006)

I am pleased that the mods have allowed this thread to continue until both sides of the argument... and the grey bits in the middle have settled enough to try and understand each other on a difficult subject.

(Though I am quite happy for offence posts to be edited or removed.)

I am hopeful that I will get the opportunity to report back on this thread the outcomes of our current cat delema with our neighbours.


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## Parko (Mar 28, 2006)

The thing people who say ''it isn't cats fault for having been brought here by people'' must realise is the people who brought cats here are people like you, cat lovers, people like us who wish to see feral animals erradicated wouldn't bring them here. 
I believe people who do live in this country have an obligation to look after the native wildlife here, part of that is by erradicating whatever threats they face whenever possible. Feral cats are a huge part of the problem and to suggest they should be left alone as it's not their fault they are here is absurd, by not killing them because you think it's cruel you are advocating cruelty to the native species cats themselves often torture then kill slowly.


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## Dicco (Mar 28, 2006)

Why is it wrong to accurately shoot a feral cat?


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## moosenoose (Mar 28, 2006)

I feed my cat an array of native wildlife, I think it gives my moggy a shinier coat and stronger teeth  That whiskers rubbish is all filler and has no nutritional quality at all damnit! I think possum meat is also pretty lean, so I'm not supersizing the cat  :wink: :lol:


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## Sdaji (Mar 28, 2006)

Well, if they hit them in the head first shot it's no fun, which upsets some people, if they don't, the sooks complain. It's not possible to keep everyone happy all the time, but as long as they're being shot, we should all be happy about it, head shots or not.


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## kahn_10 (Mar 28, 2006)

its not dicco!!! lol good point thought !! i am not a fan of cats  ill leave it at that


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## NoOne (Mar 28, 2006)

Well if no one is a good shot then what way do we control these problem cats? Do you think 1080 fox baits are a nice way for a fox to die?

Why aren't people putting up a fight for foxes? Because no one cares what happens to foxes.
I dare any cat lover to find something nice about a large feral cat :shock:


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## moosenoose (Mar 28, 2006)

Because Foxes suck! Oh, all except that poor little one in the Fox & the Hound


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

Like I said earlier Steve - I don't think it's that no one will put up a fight for the foxes. I know that I for one would be just as vocal in a fox thread as I would a cat thread. But it's that fox threads aren't being posted on here - nor kangaroo, nor rabbit etc etc


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## NoOne (Mar 28, 2006)

I have a soft spot for any animal but i also see things realistically something needs to be done about feral cats, no doubt about it.
We owe it to our wildlife to protect them from the stuff ups that our settlers brought with them.

How many people lock their cats inside and NEVER allow them to go outside?


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## Kris (Mar 28, 2006)

rotfl Moosenoose

I'd gladly put up a fight for the foxes to be killed humanely if I thought it would get anywhere and not end up in a thread similar to this one, with people sharing their "oh so funny" stories about what the most fun way to kill a cat is (legendary folks, really, you're hilarious :? ) :wink: 1080 is a horrible way for any animal to die. A friend of mine recently lost his four working dogs to a 1080 bait which as far as the local council were concerned didn't exist (well they said there were no 1080 baits on private properties). His dogs were (like most working dogs) very well trained and wouldn't have wandered far enough away to have come across the baits in an area where they were supposed to be. 

It's necessary to kill feral cats, I'm not arguing that point. However, it should be done humanely.


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## Parko (Mar 28, 2006)

duga i was just about to mention the so called ''humane'' methods that are used by the authorities, my own dog was killed by 1080 and i can tell you if the dog would have had to be shot twice to kill it it still would have been better off. People think farmers and people in rural areas that are being hit hard by feral cats have the time to go round setting traps and then driving feral cats to the vet for a supposed ''humane'' death? Rural property owners can however invite shooters onto their properties for a bit of feral cat hunting and it helps the problem, each cat they shoot saves the lives of thousands of native animals, that is the important thing.
I had feral cats in my backyard, parents and kittens running around everywhere, they all met their end with a bullet in em, other than one which i killed very quickly and humane enough with a sharp blow to the head. Now a few years later i have blotched bluetongues and dozens of birds returning to my front and back yard. Should i feel bad because we used a gun instead of a needle? Bugger that.


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## dino (Mar 28, 2006)

im surprized cat people are so selfish the reason cats are hated so much in my opinion is because of the needless killing of all our wildlife not what they need to survive but the animals they just toy with when you see a possum attacking its own intestines because its never seen them before and thinks its something attacking it the more they bite the more it hurts etc to see an animal turned halfway inside out and eating its self is just wrong cats do this for fun .even ants have learnt to farm aphids you would think the cats would realize that what they kill today they can,t hunt tomorrow left on their own they would just kill every thing and starve to death.the only other animal i know that will play with another is a gorrillar i saw this doc on them the leader was teaching the young how to locate and destroy snare traps it would just rip the tree the snare was attached to strait out the ground like picking a flower then later they found a owl with a broken wing and they were so gentle with the thing it could of been a butterfly they had it perched on an outstretched finger and was passing it to each other this way without actually touching the bird it was so human they would slowly try and get there free hand closer for a pat and would stop when the bird panicked .im not sure what impressed me more their strenghth or gentlness. all cat people should see "the ghost in the darkness" true story of a pair of tigers that deliberatly hunted people just for fun.


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## Sdaji (Mar 28, 2006)

The trees must be pretty hugged out around some of your places. I suppose you could damage a tree if you hugged it enough. Does that mean you guys are eco-terrorists? Destroying our trees, shame on you. :roll:

Someone might miss if the fire a gun, I suppose we should ban the shooting of anything. People might crash if they drive, let's outlaw cars. People slip in the shower and break their necks, better ban showers too. Someone allergic to peanuts might eat one, we'd better eliminate them from existance. How many people get electrocuted each year? We'd better ban that too....

Hang on, cats eat (and slowly torture, sometimes without bothering to eat) many, many animals every year of their life, so aren't we being cruel by not shooting them, even if sometimes we accidentally miss the head shot?
Maybe driving cars, which being dangerous, actually helps us more than it hurts...
Maybe it's actually worth taking the risk and having a shower (especially if you're a hippy).
Baning electricity would kill people who depend on it! Argh! Paradox! Let's all bang our heads on the ground! :roll:


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2006)

I would pat a fox before i would pat any type of cat.


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## moosenoose (Mar 28, 2006)

yayo said:


> I would pat a fox before i would pat any type of cat.



Really?


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

I agree Kris.
It was the whole 'throw bricks' thing that got me started in the first place. 
If it wasn't for people thinking that it was ok to take it into their own hands with whatever tool they first lay their eyes on, I wouldn't have posted in the first place.
Lukes cousins live out bush where there are heaps of kangaroos. The kids think that it's a hoot to shoot the poor things and chase them down. Talking to them is like talking to a brick wall. Yes, if the animal is destroying the natural balance of things, it may be necessary to consider options clearing those animals from the area. But there are right and wrong ways to go about it.
The key word here is 'humane', and if people find it fun to hurt an animal and watch it die slowly, I shudder to think of what karma is heading their way :?
I think the same about rabbits, foxes, cats, kagaroos, and dare I say it?? Cane toads. Again, the key word is 'humane'.
As more or less the highest ranking predator in the food chain, I think that we have an obligation to look out for those below us and to do what's right by them.
'Do un to others as thou wish others to do un to them' (or whatever the exact quote is lol) is something that applies to all things that live FOR ME PERSONALLY. Heck, I even feel guilty about having to pull out a plant that is living just because it's growing out of control or is inviting unwanted wasps or something :lol:
Yes I'm a COMPLETE sook when it comes to hurting ANYTHING, but damn it, I am happy to be this sook because I am happy with myself this way 
Oh, and before anyone asks - yes, I am practically a vegetarian becuase I have seen too many doccos lol
Bex


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## MrBredli (Mar 28, 2006)

This is the first time i've had a look at this thread.. am i correct in presuming this is where yayo earned his short holiday? :lol:


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## Nome (Mar 28, 2006)

This is Jewel, a photo of her tonight, she says 'hi!' She's about the size of my hand, legspan a little bigger.







Most people (self confessed 'all animal lovers') who've seen her, don't like her. Animal lovers squash many of her kind all the time, this is what I don't get...why is it not okay to kill feral cats, but people kill beautiful spiders like this all the time  .


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## purplefunkything (Mar 28, 2006)

dugadugabowbow said:


> How many people lock their cats inside and NEVER allow them to go outside?



my friend does. its some expensive/pampered brat furball that you just want to slap. he's also very very clever.... :twisted:


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## beknluke (Mar 28, 2006)

Hey - I think she's cute Nome. Honestly I do!!
My ex used to keep bird eating spiders (no idea what sp. as he bought them from a pet shop :roll: ) and one of them was such a quiet thing that he would run away when you'd open the tank to feed him. He was sweet.
But Luke is terrified so I've never breached the subject.
I used to keep a huntsman as a kid too and fed him the crix that I was meant to feed to my frogs lol
And I think that it's important for everyone to understand that everyone here will have different opinions based on their life experiences. I have never lived on a farm and faced financial ruin from rabbits, nor have I lived in QLD and seen cane toads everywhere etc etc. People will never see eye to eye on these sorts of subjects and that's fine, but as long as we all RESPECT that whole 'each to their own' thing


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## Sdaji (Mar 28, 2006)

Some cat owners are responsible. Some of the responsible ones even cut them up before putting them into the freezer, but we shouldn't hold it against those who keep them in one piece, as long as they're kept cold enough.


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## Parko (Mar 28, 2006)

Wicked spider Nome! Wish we could line breed ''bird'' eating spiders to become ''cat'' eating spiders.


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## purplefunkything (Mar 28, 2006)

Parko said:


> Wicked spider Nome! Wish we could line breed ''bird'' eating spiders to become ''cat'' eating spiders.



great idea parko but then we'd end up in the hybrid/intergrade brick slinging threads


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## Kersten (Mar 28, 2006)

Oh very good guess Mr Bredli....shame it apparently didn't work :lol:


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## Scale_Addiction (Mar 29, 2006)

i own a pair of indoor cats, cats are quite fine kept indoors. it ****s me a little to see then running free though.

i have a huge spanner to throw in the works though...

If my cat, tortures and kills, followed by eats an asian house gecko, do cats still suck?

cause my cats take out heaps of them (indoors obviously)


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## AntaresiaLady (Mar 29, 2006)

Personally I don't have anything against the shooting of cats if they are feral. But killing someones pet because they're irresponsible, or their pet escaped isn't a nice thought. And doing it with a brick is just not acceptable. I think thats just cruelty and brutality. 

Look how psycho people go when someone chops a perfectly good snake in half because they thought it was going to kill their kids (recent thread about this). In this instance he killed it out of ignorance- but think of all the people who just kill them for the hell of it...Shotguns or Shovels is the motto I believe. It disgusts me when people are just cruel because they can be. It shows a sinister side to their personality- one that isn't attractive, or pleasant. 

You can kill something humanely if you have to kill it- there is no need to be cruel (makes you no better than the cat you condemn for its cruelty to native animals. The cat doesn't have a choice in how to behave- it is instilled in them, last time I checked we humans have the ability to choose our behaviour).

Again, this is just my opinion. 

And Sdaji- the peanut thing is insane- kids can't even take peanut butter sandwiches to school anymore!


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## AntaresiaLady (Mar 29, 2006)

hey Nome...she's pretty! I know NOTHING about spiders, so please excuse my ignorance- but what is she?


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## Parko (Mar 29, 2006)

How would you defend foxes SW? By typing your opinions in some pointless debate on an internet forum? You aren't really defending anything, or are you? Are you out lobbying for the use of 1080 to be stopped? Are you out lobbying for the shooting of ferals to be banned? And if so are you providing any realistic options to these methods?


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## da_donkey (Mar 29, 2006)

Cats are Great :roll:


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## Gilleni (Mar 29, 2006)

WOW, Da_Donkey how long have you had him?


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## da_donkey (Mar 29, 2006)

Gilleni said:


> WOW, Da_Donkey how long have you had him?



Not much longer after that photo was taken :lol:


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## cris (Mar 31, 2006)

And i thought this thread would just be a list of reciepes :lol: 

I only ever shoot cats once since they have nine lives i consider that more than fare.
If they have a collar they go to the pound.
Giveaway kittens make a good food source for most larger reptiles, some are even wormed already :wink: (I have never actually done this as i can be a bit weak but now that i think of it...) If it says to good home, um i am building a cage perfect for a kitten I might leave out that there will be reptiles in it tho. :wink: 


I have a habit of killing feral animals. I think its a very good habit and if we all did it our land would benifit greatly.

I understand some ppl are to _____ (some word other than weak but similar) to kill any animal and thats fine with me just dont think any of your arguements will have any credit with me.

While some feral animals can have a minimal effect or even help in some cases, cats have no place in Australia unless locked in a cage or as an item of clothing.

Its not the animals fault thats why any animals killed must be killed as quickly and humanely as possible bang!!!.
Killing an animal is never cruel if done humanely how simple is that.
The way i see it if you let a cat live you are responsible for all the animals it kills and tortures. The cruelest ppl are those defending and keeping free roaming cats.

I am not a fan of cruel and partially indiscriminate methods such as using 1080 but considering the way firearms seem to be on the way out we have no choice. :cry: 

I would only kill a cat with a brick if it was the most humane option available.

Any cat killing wildlife in my back yard is taking a big risk and will only live if it has a collar(I dont make the collars slip off as im a bit weak)  

Oh yeah im proud of the fact i have never let any animal get away wounded.

*(I removed this because I believe antogonist ic reactionary views on the subject of race from any pesrpective have no place on this site. If you have a problem with this contact me directly- Peterescue)*

Also cats are far different to any predators that have ever lived here thats why they can exploit and torture and destroy our animals so effectively.

I am actually guilty of stopping for a cat but only out of my selfishness, thinking of the possible damage to my car but now i have to live with it for the rest of my life. Note to self- dont buy low cars and use tyres or bull bars.

Possum traps with meat in them work great and allow you to determine if the animal is a pet. I have honestly never caught a pet cat but if i did i would take it to the pound so they could do the dirty work.

In case you didnt work it out i really like cats, the other white meat.

cheers 
cris


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## Kersten (Mar 31, 2006)

:shock:


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## Magpie (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm racist.
Very fast over the 100 and not to bad over the 200m.


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## Kersten (Mar 31, 2006)

Oh it's just way too early for jokes that bad Magpie :shock: :lol:


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## zulu (Mar 31, 2006)

*re Cat*

Bring back fat cat!!!!!


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## cris (Mar 31, 2006)

I should add if I only had a brick to kill a cat I would only use it if i knew the cat would not escape hurt. As i said the cruelest thing would be to leave it alone.

What makes a cat jump 6 foot in the air?
shotgun
What makes it come down?
lead :lol:


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## herptrader (Mar 31, 2006)

In the continuing saga of our neighbours cat that kicked off this thread not much has happend but things have changed.

We are still waiting to hear if the poor possum but presume it has been put down.

From the noises on the other side of the fence it seem that the cat is now confined to indoors which is the only sensible outcome if the cat owners do not want the cat to meet the same end as the poor possum. The ranger never got to speak to them as far as we know but what ever he wrote on the card he left at the door must have got there attention. This animal has a pretty wild temprament so I am guessing it is only a matter of time until it sneaks out the door and goes hunting birds and possums again.

We still have our cat trap baited and set so it will be off to the pound if it finds itself in there!

As an aside the name of the cat is the same as a frequent poster to this forum. I won't mention it because this thread does not need any more fodder to be taken off at a tangent. We must have heard the name called 10,000 times in the last couple of months. (Our back doors face each other at the side of the house.)

As another aside if we wished to look after injured wild life we could get a "carers licence". In Victoria apparently this is straight forward and can be done in about 5 days.

Again I will report back if and when there are further developments... provided the thread does not get canned. I am very pleased that it has maintained itself in a fairly sensible shape.


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## Retic (Mar 31, 2006)

Why would anyone call a cat Boa ? :lol: 



herptrader said:


> As an aside the name of the cat is the same as a frequent poster to this forum. I won't mention it because this thread does not need any more fodder to be taken off at a tangent. We must have heard the name called 10,000 times in the last couple of months. (Our back doors face each other at the side of the house.)


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## herptrader (Mar 31, 2006)

I suppose if you skun it properly you could wear the hide as a fur boa?



boa said:


> Why would anyone call a cat Boa ? :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## zulu (Mar 31, 2006)

*re Cat*

Why anyone would want to call there pussy browneye or afrocat beats the hell out of me :?


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## Retic (Mar 31, 2006)

I know of a certain breeder down south with a very fetching ginger tom hat. :lol: 



herptrader said:


> I suppose if you skun it properly you could wear the hide as a fur boa?


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## Snoozie (Mar 31, 2006)

:shock: :cry:


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## zulu (Mar 31, 2006)

*re Cat*

Oh no  are we talking about a black pussy by any chance trader


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## Retic (Mar 31, 2006)

No really, it's very nice and tastefully done. :lol: 



Snoozie said:


> :shock: :cry:


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## Snoozie (Mar 31, 2006)

His lack of taste in hats upsets me :lol:


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## Retic (Mar 31, 2006)

This particular cat was just always meant to be a hat, lovely colour.


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## Snoozie (Mar 31, 2006)

Couldn't he have made the cat into a mat instead of a hat? Then he could've passed it off as a tiger pelt.....(miniature of course)


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## TrueBlue (Mar 31, 2006)

cat in the hat.


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## Retic (Mar 31, 2006)

Well Cat as a Hat at least ;-)


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## cris (May 23, 2006)

I have a picture here for any of you who still think it is OK not to kill cats that are roaming free 

This poor little ringtail was smaller than a full size rat  

Seeing a dead animal doesnt usually bother me but seeing what a horrible thing had happened to this guy really got to me :x 

*Please foward this picture to any cat owners you may know.*


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## buck (May 23, 2006)

Yes that is disturbing and yes I agree something needs to be done. There seems to be too many irresponsible cat owners out there that let their cats roam around and undoubtedly have a huge impact on local populations of other animals. 
My problem with your post is that with your "Please foward this picture to any cat owners you may know." comment you seem to be tarring all cat owners with the same brush. I own a cat who NEVER goes outside partly because she has pink pigmentation and partly because of the effect she may have on local populations of native fauna. 
If I was to use your logic I could just as easily post a horrific picture of roadkill and tell people to post it to everyone they know who owns a car.I mean let's face it some people purposely go out of their way to run things over so surely that means everyone does ... right??


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## kwaka_80 (May 23, 2006)

i have a cat and it kills things... i have only EVER seen it kill something to eat... he doesnt kill and leave (well not that i have seen "and i have seen a few killings" :mostly housemice: ) but how i see that is EXACTLY like giving a mouse to a snake... the cat just eats 10 times more than the snake


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## peterescue (May 23, 2006)

why has that ringtail got a crush injury to its head?


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## Guest (May 23, 2006)

I hate cats... they disgust me.. 
every wandering cat thats not contained in a cattery is a feral cat that kills wildlife in my opinion... kill them all


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## Kris (May 23, 2006)

Maybe the cat was driving a car Peter.


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## kwaka_80 (May 23, 2006)

it also looks like something has attacked it though... abdominal bleeding (cats mouth maybe) or being just a baby and his hands in a clentched position he could have been holding on to his mother who got hit??


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## SLACkra (May 23, 2006)

that pic is rather disturbing, but it dose look like it got its head crushed, so unless teh cat was carrying a brick, driving a car or had a shovel i doupt a cat did that. 

andrew


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## cris (May 23, 2006)

> My problem with your post is that with your "Please foward this picture to any cat owners you may know." comment you seem to be tarring all cat owners with the same brush. I own a cat who NEVER goes outside partly because she has pink pigmentation and partly because of the effect she may have on local populations of native fauna.


Yes should have wrote any cat owner who doesnt keep their cat/s locked up at all times  I think most ppl would have worked out thats what i meant.

It was almost definately a cat, 
- where it was found would be difficult for a dog to get to and a dog would most likely have eaten it or atleast carried it away. 
- I saw a cat nearby
- when i found it it was freshly killed no ppl where around and it would be unlikely a person would chew its face off.
- it wasnt crushed in anyway, apart from being chewed.
- i say again it was smaller than a full grown rat, a brick would have completely flattened it.
- cats do this sort of thing for dare i say it fun and thats why its wasnt eaten.
- if it was hit by a car there would have been alot of glass and metal from where the car landed, it was nowhere near a road.
- when i looked closely at it it appeared to have bite marks of a size that would indicate a large cat(about the same size that i saw nearby).


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## moosenoose (May 23, 2006)

I let my UN-DESEXED male cat out every night  He also eats parrots


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## OuZo (May 23, 2006)

> I saw a cat nearby



Lmao well that's proof than :lol: :lol: :lol:



> i say again it was smaller than a full grown rat, a brick would have completely flattened it.



Perhaps the cat threw a brick but he was kind enough to make sure he hit it in the head so it died instantly?



> cats do this sort of thing for dare i say it fun and thats why its wasnt eaten.




I'm actually starting to find it hilarious how people think that cats actually sit around devising evil plans about which animal they should kill next (native wildlife only - don't want that feral scum) and how best to torture it before it dies :lol: :lol:. I'm not denying that cats kill wildlife, but the fact is.....it's an instinct. That would be it my friends.


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## Parko (May 23, 2006)

Cats are well known for cruelly tormenting prey before killing it, perhaps they are just honing their skills, or perhaps they are simply enjoying themselves, who knows. I have seen cats bring back small animals to their owners homes and dump them without eating them many times. It is simply not true that cats only kill to eat like most predators, some animals are cruel it's just a fact of nature, ever seen footage of killer whales tossing seals up in the air like a game of volley ball? They could kill the seal easilly yet they sometimes dont, they play with it in their cruel game. Some animals are cruel by nature, they may have reason to be cruel but they still are simply put ''cruel''. Not as cruel as people with their pot plants though.


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## krusty (May 23, 2006)

apart from my reptiles i love my cat........


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## moosenoose (May 23, 2006)

No nibbles??? damn it! :lol:


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## Guest (May 23, 2006)

> I'm not denying that cats kill wildlife, but the fact is.....it's an instinct.



:roll: thats my defence to all the "cat lovers" when I've had chance meetings with feral cats in a dark alley with a lump of 4 x 2 in my hand... It was just instinct I tell you :lol:


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## krusty (May 23, 2006)

moosenoose said:


> I let my UN-DESEXED male cat out every night  He also eats parrots



at least you dont have to feed him...lol and leting make more little cats.

is that a good nibble for you....


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## OuZo (May 23, 2006)

> I have seen cats bring back small animals to their owners homes and dump them without eating them many times.



That's because theyre bringing it back to their owner as a trophy...kinda like when your child does a nice drawing and brings it back to show you cos they're proud of it.

I'm still laughing though Parks lol. Hard :lol: 

LET'S ALL KILL THE WHALES!!! THE WHALES ARE EVIL!!! :lol:



> thats my defence to all the "cat lovers" when I've had chance meetings with feral cats in a dark alley with a lump of 4 x 2 in my hand... It was just instinct I tell you



Wow what a turn on..you're the ultimate man. Tough and brave (to take on an animal 1/10 the size of you) and with a *lump* of 4x2 OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (May 23, 2006)

> Wow what a turn on..you're the ultimate man. Tough and brave (to take on an animal 1/10 the size of you) and with a lump of 4x2 OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH



thanks :lol: the way I see it Im saving the lives of small native animals by ridding the bush of disgusting feral vernin...

there was a guy Harry Butler who was at one time the patron of the Australian Herp Society and a renowned naturalist... Harry used to dispose of every feral cat he could find for similar reasons... feral cats are as bad maybe worse than cane toads on our wildlife... anyone thats rids the country of this filth should get a medal in my opinion...


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## cris (May 23, 2006)

> No nibbles??? damn it!


you need to hide the hook, i think anyone could see that one a mile away.
maybe say something like "its perfectly natural for my cat to kill native animals, i think its good for them to get out and have exercise, its not like one cat is going to do anything". Because some ppl are actually stupid enough to think like that.

Im quite sure many of u would still say it wasnt a cat if i had video footage of the cat doing it :roll: grow up kids.


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## OuZo (May 23, 2006)

> Im quite sure many of u would still say it wasnt a cat if i had video footage of the cat doing it



No because that would be stupid.


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## orsm (May 23, 2006)

I find this thread rather hilarious yet disturbing at the same time. It's so easy to point the finger at something so insignificant such as cats when we, as humans, have been the worst offenders when it comes to killing native wildlife for many many years. Sounds ironic. Maybe we should start culling humans too?


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## herptrader (May 23, 2006)

Yesterday the council came and collected one moggy we trapped in our yard. Alas it is just one down which leaves about 10 problem felines to go.


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## herptrader (May 23, 2006)

> > thats my defence to all the "cat lovers" when I've had chance meetings with feral cats in a dark alley with a lump of 4 x 2 in my hand... It was just instinct I tell you
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what a turn on..you're the ultimate man. Tough and brave (to take on an animal 1/10 the size of you) and with a *lump* of 4x2 OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH :lol: :lol:



It would probably ensure a pretty swift kill making it very humane.


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## theplantguys (May 23, 2006)

orsm said:


> I find this thread rather hilarious yet disturbing at the same time. It's so easy to point the finger at something so insignificant such as cats when we, as humans, have been the worst offenders when it comes to killing native wildlife for many many years. Sounds ironic. Maybe we should start culling humans too?



i have to agree here, i have seen cats do nasty things, but then i have seen people do worse, where do we start and end and who decides who or what is wrong? i know of a cat eaten by a snake in a surban home, not in the yard the home, so should we stop the snakes too ? i also know of a 6 week old puppy eaten by a snake....... those nasty terrible snakes we sould get rid of them ? what about the poor cow i had for dinner, or perhaps the kangroo i had last week, or the pig on sun, same thing sure they were only there to be food vs a wild animal, dont think they would se it that way if they had a choice but !

particular pets are not to blame, owners are to blame in most cases i feel. I have many pets 14 snakes, 3 lizards, 2 dogs, 4 cats, 3 birds and everyone gets along together (well the cats are scared of the snakes but they dont hurt each other anyhow) birds and dogs and cats all live inside, the cats are never out but then also dont even look at touching our birds that are also insdie ond often free in the house, dogs dont chase the cats etc etc etc. bad owners not bad pets. (with saying that there are some hard to control lik ekids really, i have seen good owners with bad pets, but hey they were trying unlike many )

just my 2 cents anyhow


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## SLACkra (May 24, 2006)

mmm 



> but then i have seen people do worse



true, like catching a blue tongue and messing around with it and throwing small pebbles at it ect...(and this was in year 10)

also if you look at our closest relative the chimps well their just like us! they kill chimps in other groups, they invade other chimps territories they fight with one another over supremecy ect ect! 

food for thought.


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## Guest (May 24, 2006)

I feel theres a place for domestic pet cats, but also feel that they should be confined to a cattery enclosure when outside. Too many "domestic" cats slaughter native animals including lots of birds, small mammals as well as reptiles. When I lived on acreage at Kenthurst in Sydney, I saw this first hand with my neighbour telling me his domestic cat which was allowed to run wild 24/7 used to kill and leave at their back door at least 10 kills per day (mainly lizards and birds) I"ve heard these sort of stories all too often... The "city cats" may not do as much damage as the semi rural or rural cat, or cats near bushland, but still cause problems. 
For those wondering :roll: I never touched that neighbours cat.. but it did tresspass into my property after my aviary birds.. and had an unfortunate mishap with my rottweiler :lol: 

Feral cats are just that feral... and the fault belonbgs straight back on "cat lovers" who undoubtedly dumped the things in the bush instead of taking them to the RSPCA or animal refuge. In my opinion feral problem animals should be dispatched in the quickest and most humane way (I don't support cruelty to any animal) but dispatched none the less.. 

If cat people don't like the culling of feral cats.... maybe they should'nt dump them in the bush in the first place...

"If its feral... Its in peril"


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## instarnett (May 24, 2006)

> I must have kill thousands of carp over the years but it had no effect at all.
> 
> It's not their fault they are ferals but it's not the native animals fault they have been invaded by ferals, which we did by settling here, so the way i see it is why not right the wrongs of our settlers



And you could kill thousands of cats and acheive the same result in the long term, possibly even do harm with your god intentions. (no typo)

Righting the wrongs is just not as simple as you put it, particularly where the ecosystem is involved. Ferals have change the balance of the food chain entirely and simply removing ferals may cause just as much disruption and problems as they have caused in the first place.
too many heroic 'eco-warrior/rambos' out 'saving' our wildlife imo. 
Interference by man caused the problem and further well intentioned interference wont fix it, just make it worse.


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## Henchwench (May 24, 2006)

I've had cats for nigh on four years now; two cats. For most of their lives they've been kept indoors; one has only once been outside (when he managed to fall out an open window), the other spends probaby equal time outside and inside (he's sitting on my lap at the moment) - he's desexed, and microchipped, too.
I live in a very suburban area almost underneath a motorway overpass; minutes from the centre of Sydney. Where I live, no native species visit except Brushtail possums that use the roof of next door as a thoroughfare, and are about twice the size of the cat that is allowed outside. He never touches them - actually, he runs back inside when they're in the area. The only thing he's ever killed are the rats that live in the gutters in the back alley behind this block of flats.
To me, that's acceptable. My cats have next to no impact on the environment.
However, I can see the other point of view, too. I grew up in the mountains, and our neighbours seemed to all have cats that they didn't bother keeping tabs on and would just roam through the bush. None were desexed, so sometimes there were kittens everywhere.
I'd regularly wake up in the morning to find the corpses of beautiful Bluetongues, Crimson Rosellas, Magpies, and, once, a baby Brushtail Possum. This devastated me as a kid (I loved all the native wildlife), and I'd talk to my friends about keeping their cats indoors - they never listened. It was just easier for them to let their cat roam, they said. 
It makes me sad that, as a pretty responsible cat owner, there are other cat owners out there really doing damage to the reputation of being a cat owner through sheer negligence. If people are going to take on a pet, they should be fully aware and prepared to accept the responsibilities that go with pet ownership.
I used to chase all cats out of my yard in the mountains; usually throwing water at them. I'd never advocate killing another person's pet, though - never. That's illegal. Calling the council is a great alternative, though.
I do, howver, advocate shooting feral cats with no owners, which are the biggest problem in rural areas. So long as it's done quickly and humanely. I'm all for getting rid of feral cats, cane toads, goats, foxes, pigs, all feral animals - we introduced those species, so we should be the ones to make sure they don't get out of hand.
So while I do think that cats can pretty easily be kept in check and not decimate wildlife, I think that steps have to be taken to eradicate the feral problem.


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## Guest (May 24, 2006)

You seem a really responsible cat owner Henchwench and I totally applaud that. I wish more cat owners showed responsibility for their animals and kept them inside or when outside in a cat run... at the least desex them and put a bell around their necks.. If that were the norm... there would not be such a problem, but sadly in my opinion, most (not all) cat owners don't behave responsibly or care about any native wildlife. In my experience, its rare to see or even hear about a responsible cat owner that actually has a cat run etc... most moggies just seem to run wild where ever they choose day or night.. and thats not the cats fault.. its the owners.. 

As previously said... I think the main reason there is a feral cat problem is because irresponsible cat owners dump animals in the bush instead of taking them to the RSPCA, welfare league or actually find them a home... The fact that the majority of these dumped animals are probably not desexed is just asking for an environmental disaster... 

I find it ludicrous that certian cat lovers try to then take a stand against the culling of these pests when their fellow cat owners are mainly responsible for this mess in the first place :roll: maybe they should spend their efforts more productively trying to educate their fellow cat owners on the meaning of responsible pet keeping , desexing etc. instead of voicing their ill informed opinions.


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## moosenoose (May 24, 2006)

cris said:


> > No nibbles??? damn it!
> 
> 
> you need to hide the hook, i think anyone could see that one a mile away.



Surely it wasn't that obvious?


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## cris (May 24, 2006)

> i have to agree here, i have seen cats do nasty things, but then i have seen people do worse, where do we start and end and who decides who or what is wrong? i know of a cat eaten by a snake in a surban home, not in the yard the home, so should we stop the snakes too ? i also know of a 6 week old puppy eaten by a snake....... those nasty terrible snakes we sould get rid of them ? what about the poor cow i had for dinner, or perhaps the kangroo i had last week, or the pig on sun, same thing sure they were only there to be food vs a wild animal, dont think they would se it that way if they had a choice but !


Firstly become a vegan, oh no wait thats cruel to plants... become a fifth level vegan :lol: 

If someone doesnt look after their animals and protect them from the local wildlife it is their fault, atleast the snake got a good feed. When we have a puppy we keep it in a snake proof house until its too big for a carpet snake to eat, pretty simple really.

Some ppl are worse than cats, irresponcible cat owners for a start. However many ppl such as myself try there best to fix up damage caused by such ppl so we are good 8) 



> particular pets are not to blame, owners are to blame in most cases i feel.



yes good point 



> Righting the wrongs is just not as simple as you put it, particularly where the ecosystem is involved. Ferals have change the balance of the food chain entirely and simply removing ferals may cause just as much disruption and problems as they have caused in the first place.
> too many heroic 'eco-warrior/rambos' out 'saving' our wildlife imo.
> Interference by man caused the problem and further well intentioned interference wont fix it, just make it worse.


Although there is some fact in what you say, to put it in such a general statement like that is just stupid, cats dont play an important role and are very differant from the quolls and devils u suggest they replace, thats why they are so bad. 
Why some ppl constantly put this macho slant on anyone who actually cares about wildlife is beyond me. Im so tuff because i protect sugar gliders, yeah dont mess with me im hardcore :lol: 
I have heaps of frogs and tree snakes in my yard partly because i kill any toad i see on this level being a hardcore "ecorambo" :lol: it is highly effective. If more ppl didnt the same instead of taking your defeatest attitude our wildlife would be alot better off. Unfortunately the neighbours often call the police after all the m60 fire and rambo style yelling :roll: dam im so tuff oooahhh!!!!! :roll:


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## orsm (May 24, 2006)

> Although there is some fact in what you say, to put it in such a general statement like that is just stupid, cats dont play an important role and are very differant from the quolls and devils u suggest they replace, thats why they are so bad.



I am not sure what this statement is supposed to mean. Are you trying to say that cats *do* play an important role? Otherwise this statement is contradictory.



> Why some ppl constantly put this macho slant on anyone who actually cares about wildlife is beyond me. Im so tuff because i protect sugar gliders, yeah dont mess with me im hardcore :lol:



I think the point being made here is that cats don't generally go round killing native wildlife *IF* they are not given the opportunity to do so. Without sounding too much like a cat advocate (which I can tell you I am not as I prefer dogs), surely it must be obvious by now most cat-related _issues_ stem from irresponsible pet owners?

A lot of the ideas being put forward eg. putting bells on cats to warn native wildlife, restricting roaming access etc are good suggestions and should be mandatory (imo).


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## reptililian (May 24, 2006)

I've been absent for nearly two months. I am astonished to come back and find the same old arguments raging on. Really people, like cats or not, can't you just get over it?


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## herptrader (May 24, 2006)

reptililian said:


> I've been absent for nearly two months. I am astonished to come back and find the same old arguments raging on. Really people, like cats or not, can't you just get over it?



Hey Lilly, you will find it is the same thread... continuing into a deeper and more meaningful discussion.


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## cris (May 24, 2006)

> Are you trying to say that cats do play an important role?


Definately not, what instarnett said was a general statement about all feral animals which may be true regarding some animals but definately not cats(thats what i was trying to get across).
1 e.g. our current rabbit population would have minimal negative environmental impact and have proven to be a good source of food for quolls where bushfires have burnt off all the possums.
It is a very complex issue and its hard to know exactly what is and isnt good, but cats do not fit in here.

From what i have heard bells just make cats develop better stalking skills so the bell doesnt ring. Snakes arnt well known for their hearing ability either.


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## trader (May 24, 2006)

In a very small article on *Cats and Koalas* in the latest _"Australian Womens Weekly"_ speaking about '*Cat enclosures' *it states: "Cats live longer. It has been estimated that enclosed cats can live up to twice the age of free roaming cats." 

and it goes on to say "An enclosure prevents cat fights and* feline AIDS* that can be spread through bites-important now that up to *30%* of cats in some areas are *FIV positive*" 
It also brings the reader's attention to a website: www.catmax.com.au where it states: "In a _perfect_ world every cat would have a Catmax." :wink: :wink:


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## OuZo (May 24, 2006)

First of all can I just say LILY BILLY!!!!! WHERE YA BEEN!?!?!?  

And now that that's out of my system, on to the quote battle :lol:



> and the fault belonbgs straight back on "cat lovers" who undoubtedly dumped the things in the bush instead of taking them to the RSPCA or animal refuge



You'd probably find that it was a "cat hater" who took someone's pet cat and dumped it in the bush actually lol. Why would someone who loves them do that? :?



> In my opinion feral problem animals should be dispatched in the quickest and most humane way (I don't support cruelty to any animal) but dispatched none the less..





> and had an unfortunate mishap with my rottweiler :lol:



Hmmmmmmm.....


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## cris (May 24, 2006)

> You'd probably find that it was a "cat hater" who took someone's pet cat and dumped it in the bush actually lol. Why would someone who loves them do that?


maybe because they couldnt look after it and didnt want to kill it :? If someone hated cats wouldnt they just kill it and chuck it in the bin rather than going to some effort to dump it :? and if the hate cats why would they would they want to create or add to the feral population :? hmmm maybe im thinking too much about what i say :lol: 

That feline aids thing sounds good once it spreads through most of the feral population all that is need is a feline virus or 2(or more) and with abit of help from us "ecorambos" :lol: their all gone


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## OuZo (May 24, 2006)

> If someone hated cats wouldnt they just kill it and chuck it in the bin rather than going to some effort to dump it



No most cat haters (at least on here) seem to like to torture before killing because "they're feral and it's what they deserve" blah blah blah. Taking a domestic cat and putting it into the wild where (before the feral population started) they would have no idea cats would survive so well, they may have thought that they'd get eaten by some native animal while teaching their irresponsible owner a lesson :roll:


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## africancichlidau (May 24, 2006)

> It has been estimated that enclosed cats can live up to twice the age of free roaming cats."



That's because APS members can't get IN not because the cats can't get OUT


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## cris (May 24, 2006)

> That's because APS members can't get IN not because the cats can't get OUT


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Ouzo who here tortures cats?


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## africancichlidau (May 24, 2006)

> who here tortures cats?



No names, no pack drill, but there ARE a few! Some don't even realise that what they are doing constitutes torture.


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## africancichlidau (May 24, 2006)

My God, here's another thread that has got to over 10 pages before I've been bored enough to read it, lol, it must be a bad night for me tonight


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## herptrader (May 25, 2006)

The council animal control officer will be collecting the second cat in a week from our household this morning. We believe this one to be one of the two main culprits killing and maiming possums and birds in our yard.

If their owners were responsible enough to keep them indoors the native animals would be happier and they would not have the greif of losing a pet.


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> That feline aids thing sounds good once it spreads through most of the feral population all that is need is a feline virus or 2(or more) and with abit of help from us "ecorambos" their all gone



roll on feline aids :lol: :lol: thats sounds the best disease I've heard of :lol: 

but once the current feral cats are wiped out... it wont take long for these irresponsible cat people to dump more of their feline trash in bushland and we will be back to square one...


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

Ouzo I don't think anyone on here likes to tortue animals (even feral cats) what planet are you on? 
I suppose you would like to see feral cats multiply and kill thousands of native mammals, birds and reptiles in our bushland? :roll: Because if they aren't controlled, thats whats likely to happen and is already happening...

And as was said previously... its not cat haters that dump cats in the bush... a cat hater would kill the thing... its the cat lovers who wont take animals to the RSPCA or other organisation and think by dumping them that they have a chance of survival (at the expense of our native fauna) that dump them.. 

There is definitely a place for cats as pets in responsible households (with a cat run) there is no place for them running wild in our bushland.. 

I suppose you support the spread of cane toads as well? :roll:


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

> Ouzo no one likes to tortue animals (even feral cats) what planet are you on?



Jesus are you living in fairy land? I thought that was just me until the aps cat haters/torturers brought me into the real world! :lol:

I was wondering something last night and I'd love an honest answer to this question (but doubt I'll get it). Correct me if I'm wrong about locations but I think there's a wild population of Burmese pythons in Florida which came about due to animals getting too big for owners and them releasing them into the wild. They've survived quite well and are breeding I believe. Do you guys believe that it's the RIGHT thing to do to be killing off Burmese pythons in the wild in Florida because they don't belong there? Is it ok for "snake haters" to joke about chopping off their heads with shovels, swerving on roads to try and run them over deliberately, to talk about how all disgusting dirty feral Burmese Pythons should suffer because they're killing any native wildlife and taking over the area? (I don't know any of the specific circumstances so please excuse me if those examples are incorrect/irrelevant but you get my point). Would you guys feel 100% percent happy that people over there are killing reptiles because of the EXACT same conditions as feral cats here or is it different because it's a snake?

I'd say most people will claim they agree to prevent looking like a hypocrit but I don't think I'd ever believe that anyone's telling the truth


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

ok what I "mean't to say was


> I don't think anyone on here likes to tortue animals (even feral cats)


 yes I realise there are many individuals that like to tortue animals including cats... but I thought the standard of member on here would be above that (maybe I"m naive) anyway thats what I meant.



> Do you guys believe that it's the RIGHT thing to do to be killing off Burmese pythons in the wild in Florida because they don't belong there?



Being a snake lover its sad and hard to answer that question but the honest answer is yes... they are feral to the native fauna of that country and if they are causing a problem with that native wildlife they should be controlled. Just because they are snakes (and I love snakes) they have been dumped by irresponsible snake owners just the same way as the cats have been dumped here... so as hard as it is to say it... I think the burmese in that situation should be culled. 



> Would you guys feel 100% percent happy that people over there are killing reptiles because of the EXACT same conditions as feral cats here or is it different because it's a snake?



tough question... and my honest answer is yes. If it was dumped burmese pythons in the australian bushland killing our native fauna.. i would feel the same. Feral cats or feral snakes... they don't belong in our bushland... So yes personally I am 100% happy with that, because as you point out.. that situation is exactly the same as the feral cats... (but it would still make me sad that there were such irresponsible snake owners that would do such a thing as dump an animal in the bush rather than try to relocate it with another owner) 



> I'd say most people will claim they agree to prevent looking like a hypocrit but I don't think I'd ever believe that anyone's telling the truth


Beleive what you want... personally I think that last statement is a real cheap shot at trying to validate your argument... very sad that you had to resort to that one :roll: 
and for your information... Im not saying the above "just to not look like a hypocrite" whether you believe that or not I don't give a rats... but I would like to inform you that some of us here have principles and try to stick by them...


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## cris (May 25, 2006)

> Would you guys feel 100% percent happy that people over there are killing reptiles because of the EXACT same conditions as feral cats here or is it different because it's a snake?


yes its a good idea to cull pest animals even if they dont have legs. I would be doing it myself if i lived in florida.

Are the ppl who dump these pythons python haters? would make sence to me :lol: 



> I'd say most people will claim they agree to prevent looking like a hypocrit but I don't think I'd ever believe that anyone's telling the truth


Yeah your right i would never kill a notorious pest if it was a herp :lol: 

Still waiting to hear who here tortures cats, send me a pm if you dont want to name them in here.[/quote]


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## Kris (May 25, 2006)

Well said Ouzo.


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

It's not a cheap shot Colin, it's an extremely frustrating fact that people on this site (yes I know it's a reptile site not a cat one yada yada) are generally very hypocritical regarding the cat issue. No respect is shown towards people who like cats (ie: comments like "it had an unfortunate run in with my rottweiler :lol:") but then people post up copied threads from other websites where people have talked about killing snakes and they've been so upset/angry/frustrated that people still act barbarically towards herps (ie: "the only good snake is a dead snake"). I get sucked into arguing this point almost every time cos it's so annoying fighting with people who refuse to view the other side of the story that I just can't resist lol. Nobody puts themselves in other people's shoes...why don't you think about how some of your comments like the rottweiler one would make a cat lover feel and wonder why the general public (probably mostly cute cuddly cat lovers) think we're a pack of freaks who are cold and unfeeling like our animals :lol:.



> yes I realise there are many individuals that like to tortue animals including cats... but I thought the standard of member on here would be above that (maybe I"m naive) anyway thats what I meant.



Fair enough, but have you been a member long enough to see this argument come up time and time again? And to read all the lovely ways people like to kill cats on here? I was making that comment based on past posts, not guessing lol.



> tough question... and my honest answer is yes.



I hope you are being honest because there's no reason why feral snakes should be treated differently than feral cats just because we're reptile lovers :?


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## Kris (May 25, 2006)

yep , you even get "toughies" wanting to wait in dark alleys for cats with a piece of 4x2.....but that wasn't on this site.....was it???


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA thanks for that Kris...I have a maximum 3 post memory :lol:


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## soulweaver (May 25, 2006)

i understand what you guys are fighting for, as i have done the same........but when it comes to this issue, i think a brick wall is needed to beat your head against.


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> No respect is shown towards people who like cats (ie: comments like "it had an unfortunate run in with my rottweiler ")



FACT.. this cat should have been inside or in a cat run and not alowed to run riot through semi rural bush. Our property (5 acre bush block) actually backed onto a nature reserve as well which this cat used to kill animals from daily. 

FACT:: "an unfortunate run in" does not mean my dog killed it or even attacked it... thats your spin on what was actually said. The truth of the matter was the cat tresspassed onto my property (and the neighbour knew I had a large and expensive collection of aviary birds and actually used to come and admire them) and should have had his cat in a cat run or inside their house at night... My dog chased it and almost grabbed it... but the cat got away... (if he had grabbed it and started to rip into it I would have stopped it) your inference of my dog ripping it to shreds is in your mind only..

I have repeatedly said there is a place for domestic cats with responsible owners, there is no problem there. There is however a problem with (the majority) of irresponsible owners who allow there cats to roam unrestrained especially in bushland areas. There is also a problem with cat owners who dump there unwanted animals in our bush to become ferals. Its with these cats and these particular irresponsible owners I have issue wth not the responsible ones. But I do kind of understand your point about people saying "the only good snake is a dead snake" situation and can understand your frustrations. 



> I hope you are being honest because there's no reason why feral snakes should be treated differently than feral cats just because we're reptile lovers



I am being honest here Ouzo... and agree with you 100% on this point. Feral is feral and it makes no difference with its a snake, a cat, a dog, cane toad or whatever. If its feral and is is causing problems with native wildlife it should be removed (as humanely as possible) as soon as possible, full stop - no exceptions.


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## Magpie (May 25, 2006)

> Nobody puts themselves in other people's shoes...why don't you think



Ever tried it yourself Zoe?
How can you compare someone pouring boiling water over a native snake that merely happened to be passing through and was spotted by a herp hater to someone poutting a bullet through a cat that was living purely off murdered wildlife?
Yes, the burms should be killed, humanely, just like the cats should be. Incidently, I think being run over is probably one of the most humane ways of killing a mammal.
So should the Inian Mynahs.
So should the Cane Toads (oops, they are a herp, did you forget about them?)
I've come under fire for saying this before and I'm sure i will this time, but if one of my snakes escaped and was in the neighbours yard, I would expect them to kill it. would I be upset? Ropable! but I know that is what would happen. 
Why should cat owners be the only ones allowed to let their animals roam into other people property?
It's called being responsible for your own actions. Dog owners aren't allowed to do it. What other animal would be expected to crap in some kids sandpit, spray unrine all over someones car interior and be allowed to get away with it?
BTW as a confirmed cat HATER one thing I see no place for in the torturing of any animal.


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> yep , you even get "toughies" wanting to wait in dark alleys for cats with a piece of 4x2.....but that wasn't on this site.....was it???



no one inferred it was "tough" except yourself and maybe Ouzo. thats your spin on it to try to substaniate your point of view (typical female tactic I might add :roll: ) In my experience every thing seems to degenerate to "toughies" "macho's" or "rambos" etc :roll: when females run short of logical argument :roll: :lol: 

I don't think it tough or otherwise... just necessary. and as was said in a prior post by Herptrader... its an extremely humane and fast way of dealing with this feral problem...


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## instarnett (May 25, 2006)

What I was referring to by 'further well intentioned interference by ecorambos' 
was that all ferals were introduced in the first place by well intentioned eco heros beleiving they were right.
cats were released in the 1800's 
after their original introduction by the dutch traders in the 17th centurury, they had already established colonies
but this wasnt enough.
The clever eco heros decided in the 1800's that further releases of feral cats would help eradicate the 
earlier intoduction of rabbits.
one mistake after another. by 1930's we still hadnt figured out it wasnt such an easy proposition to eradicate pests. we introduced cane toads aswell.
still screwing up. 
now that ferals have found a confy niche in the ecology here, due to many factors
including, lack of predation, the right climate etc etc, these are exabeerated by human enroachment on habitat and other continuing interference.
habitats are fractured in many areas, leaving isolated pockets of the original ecosystem. 
this may mean (E>G) that within a given pocket, there may exist a tenuous balance now between surviving natives and ferals, each now dependant on the
existance of each other for survival, perhaps due to forestation, human habitat etc.
wiping out a feral species in these areas may seem a simple solution
but may infact do more harm to surviving natives.
wipe out foxes and cats and rabbits may boom, further pressuring natives through destruction of habitat (burrows) compition
for for food etc.wipe out rabbits and another species previously kept in check by their numbers
now fills the niche with perhaps the same effect for another.
Its just no longer as simple as 'kill-em-all'.
this was my point. In everyday terms, your efforts are probably better spent
lobbying for compulsary sterilisation of non natives and effective legislation to back it up.
killing your neighbours cats is like bailing the sea with a coffee spoon.
educate them instead. put your4x2's away and pick up a pen.
organisations like the rspca are just not seeing the bigger picture.
welfare of all creatures is to be applauded, but when your slogan is 'all creatures great and small'
it clearly needs to go beyond finding new homes for lost pets.
rspca has the clout and vote power to see in legislation to compulsarily sterilise non natives.
They should have been working to this end years ago.
the literal few thousand dogs and cats my husband personally euthanised during his employ there made not a scap of difference, nor did the untold
thousands before that or those that continue.
Bandaid treatment including well intentioned cat murders are just not enough nor will ever be.
we need to stop the flood at its source.


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## Kris (May 25, 2006)

Last time I looked I wasn't a female. Also, you think that females have to have "tactics" to put their point across....... I don't think that OUZO has run short of logical argument Colin.And since I am not a female , you mustn't be talking to me......


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> RSPCA has the clout and vote power to see in legislation to compulsarily sterilise non natives. They should have been working to this end years ago.




Good point and I totally agree with the sterilisation of domestic pets (dogs and cats) that are not to be used for breeding purposes, by a licensed breeder.

Also maybe it should be compulsory for cat and dog owners to keep their animals restrained on their property, whether this means keeping them inside or in a closed in run or both. This should be a mandatory requirement of dog and cat ownership. All animals should be mandatory microchipped, so if a feral animal was captured (either dead or alive) it could be traced back to the owner/dumper and if a case was found of dumping a sizeable fine imposed. 

These measures could have a dramatic influence on the feral cat problem.. Once the existing feral animals were removed... this feral situation would probably not be as commonplace as it is today... and we would not be arguing about it on here anymore


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> Last time I looked I wasn't a female. Also, you think that females have to have "tactics" to put their point across....... I don't think that OUZO has run short of logical argument Colin.And since I am not a female , you mustn't be talking to me......



:lol: yeah I assumed you were both females actually.. my mistake then :wink:


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> put your4 x 2's away



okelly dokelly :lol: geez I'll never live that one down... :lol: 

Be warned people :twisted: don't mess with me or I"ll come after you with my trusty 4 x 2 and whammo.. 
lights out :lol: :lol:


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## instarnett (May 25, 2006)

> Also maybe it should be compulsory for cat and dog owners to keep their animals restrained on their property,



I beleive it already is in many areas, however such legislations come within the duristriction of councils locally who often seem to enforce or fail to enforce such things on a whim.
In general enforcing such legislation has its own problems and isnt as simple as it would seem either.


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## Magpie (May 25, 2006)

Yes, our coucnil brought in registration for cats, then went on public TV and said they would not be enforcing it at all.


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> In general enforcing such legislation has its own problems and isnt as simple as it would seem either.


probably not, but I think it's still a step in the right direction at least.

compulsory sterilisation of non breeding dogs and cats would also be another step in the right direction IMO, also microchiping them to identify (if needed) animals that were dumped or causing a problem... their owner's could then be held accountable..


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## cris (May 25, 2006)

> I don't think that OUZO has run short of logical argument Colin


Unless i missed something there never was any logical arguements for thinking its good to leave cats to kill and torture our wildlife. Apart from some apparently baseless accusations(or blatent lies) about cruelty and the regular poorly thought out bleeding heart BS. By allowing a cat to live roaming free(if its yours or not) you are responcible for all the animals it kills and tortures, removing/killing free roaming cats is very good karma or whatever.

Do you fail to understand that killing an animal can be benificial in some circumstances?
some ppl seem to have a problem with ppl who kill cats to save our wildlife, you are the cruelest ppl.

If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem, Ouzo an Co. you are part of the problem.



> put your4x2's away and pick up a pen.


OK, Im typing is that close enough, a possum trap works better than a 4x2 anyway IMO

Rabbits are not and never have been effectively controled by cats, mixomatosis? and calicy?(hmm spelling) and possibly fences are the only things that have been effective in controlling rabbits. Cats are not needed for anything in our bush and they are causing alot of damage. What you are saying about feral animals is partly true for some species but not at all for cats, canetoads and probably many others.



> but when it comes to this issue, i think a brick wall is needed to beat your head against.


I will continue to bash my head against this brick wall till it softens up and these ppl see logic(if that is possible).


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## Kersten (May 25, 2006)

I live in an area where (once upon a time) it was not only legal, but legally required to kill feral cats (haven't checked the laws lately so it may or may not be the case now). Not the use of the word FERAL please. FERAL cats are obviously a problem, that goes without saying. What also SHOULD go without saying - but apparently doesn't here - is that there is just something fundamentally wrong with wanting to beat something to death. It's one thing to argue that there is a need for something to be humanely killed, it's another thing entirely to skyte about wanting to bash the life out of another living being. I don't care how you run rings around logic trying to argue that it's necessary to kill something in that fashion. The only time I have ever heard a justification for doing anything like that which rang true and made sense was Hugsta last night or the night before, talking about the cat in his yard that was dying a slow and horrible death.

I must agree with Zoe and the person who up until this point was my husband to be....who apparently is my wife to be :shock: :lol: I've always wondered what being a lesbian was like 


> Do you fail to understand that killing an animal can be benificial in some circumstances?


Do YOU fail to understand that most of us "cat lovers" or "bleeding heart women" have actually made the point that we DO agree with the humane killing of feral cats, or are you simply ignoring that point? :lol: 

I personally would rather be "part of the problem" (especially since in this case I'm actually not) than someone who would take pleasure out of killing another living being in a manner as brutal or sadistic as bashing.


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## Guest (May 25, 2006)

> I've always wondered what being a lesbian was like



don't forget to post some pics ok


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## Kris (May 25, 2006)

Of all the things to reply to in Kersten's post....you chose that? Not going to say anything about the points she made which were relevant to the topic at hand?


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## moosenoose (May 25, 2006)

With a title like this it was always going to be trouble :lol: This is a reptile site damnit!........:lol:


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

> Do YOU fail to understand that most of us "cat lovers" or "bleeding heart women" have actually made the point that we DO agree with the humane killing of feral cats, or are you simply ignoring that point?



Lmao THANK YOU KERSTEN!!!!! You understood it because you're a woman :lol: 



> Apart from some apparently baseless accusations(or blatent lies) about cruelty and the regular poorly thought out bleeding heart BS.



Cris, in your whole month and a half of membership here on aps the cat fight hasn't been anywhere near what it has in the past. I couldn't even count the amount of times that people have spoken about how they hate cats (which is fine) and want them all to die suffering (which isn't fine). I'd appreciate if you didn't call what I'm saying BS unless you actually have a clue what you're talking about.


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## Kersten (May 25, 2006)

Ummm Zoe....I think Kris is starting to feel a little "insecure" about his "manhood"....he understood it too.... :lol:


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

> don't forget to post some pics ok



But Colin, I thought you didn't like pussies? :shock:


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

Kris is a SNAG though Kersten :lol:


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## soulweaver (May 25, 2006)

Kersten said:


> Ummm Zoe....I think Kris is starting to feel a little "insecure" about his "manhood"....he understood it too.... :lol:




Don't worry Kris, i have a box of tissues for us both, as i understand too


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## Kersten (May 25, 2006)

Well he's either that or the hairiest woman I know :shock: :lol: 

He says thanks, he needed to have a weep and get further in touch with his feminine side. I personally think he's embracing it TOO much :shock:


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## ricky (May 25, 2006)

*YUM YUM*

I am sure that the people who are saying that they hate cats cause they kill birds and other wild life are probably saying so at the same time as munching down on roast chicken for dinner YUM YUM. Humans kill more wild life than any other animal in world. We all need to be cocerned about the bigger picture. Cant we all just get along man????


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## soulweaver (May 25, 2006)

at least kersten calls you feminine kris, all i get is called gay


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## Kersten (May 25, 2006)

Actually...what I call Kris can't be posted here but yeah, it's not gay :lol:


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## OuZo (May 25, 2006)

I know!!! I know!!!


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## herptrader (May 25, 2006)

OuZo said:


> Do you guys believe that it's the RIGHT thing to do to be killing off Burmese pythons in the wild in Florida because they don't belong there?



Definitely! They do not belong there anymore than cats belong here... and they have great capacity to destroy Florida's native wild life.


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## Rennie (May 25, 2006)

*YUM YUM*



ricky said:


> I am sure that the people who are saying that they hate cats cause they kill birds and other wild life are probably saying so at the same time as munching down on roast chicken for dinner YUM YUM. Humans kill more wild life than any other animal in world. We all need to be cocerned about the bigger picture. Cant we all just get along man????



Most of the meat I eat is "farmed" life not "wild" life technically, I can't speak for everyone though. I do know what you're saying and yes we, as a species, are responsible for more (by far!!!) extinctions than any other species, but most of what we eat now days is sustainable.
I once read about a species of small ground dwelling bird on a small island off New Zealand that was completely wiped out in 6 months because a lighthouse keeper moved in with his cat. NOTE, I say its the owner's fault, but a single cat wiped out an entire species in 6 months!


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## Dicco (May 25, 2006)

Eating chicken has absolutely nothing to do with cats killing wildlife. The problem with cats is that Australias environment *cannot* support cats, this is why they have caused the diminsihing of wildlife, not only the small animals, but they also out compete things like Quolls, a beautiful Native mammal that is often reffered to as the Native Cat, and has been wiped out in many areas due to factors including competition with cats(although that is not always the only reason I must add).

It's because it's not susstainable for cats to be out in the bush that they are such a problem, our environment can't handle them. I do not support the cruelty submitted to cats, but I believe it is nessicary to cull feral cat and also, that irresposibly kept cats should be dealt with. When I say dealt with, I don't mean immediately kill the animal, but communicate with the owner and try resolve the matter so that the animal is kept secure both Night *and* Day. If this cannot be resolved, and the animal/s continue to enter your premisis or reserve land, then it should be sent to the council or dealt with appropriately.

In relation to the chicken comment, if killed in a humane and _sustainable_ manner, I see no problem with the consumption of other animals.


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## NoOne (May 26, 2006)

Where did Colin's posts go?


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