# Need hands-on experience with lacies in Melbourne



## Jesse_H (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi there. Yeah yeah another lacey thread, I know... But I need help so I do the right thing.

I'm a 29yr old male, live in Melbourne and have been researching my next herp for about 12 months now. Initially looked at snakes, then dragons, and now think I've found my ideal, dream herp, a Lacie. I've been reading as many lacie threads as possible, especially any with input by crocdoc, as well as ordering several monitor books and reading them cover to cover. One major theme I'm picking up from the experts is patience and hands-on experience. I think I'm ready for the level of commitment, but I lack the hands-on experience. I know there are a few keepers around the Melbourne/surrounding suburbs, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to let me come by to watch a feed and get some first-hand advice in person? At present I have already decided I really want to do this, but I am pretty big on not making emotional purchases, and want to make sure that such a beast is going to be right for me and my lifestyle, and ensure that I indeed can look after it. 

Thanks for your time everyone, hope to hear from someone soon!


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## hurcorh (Aug 13, 2011)

Hey mate, cant offer any hands on experience but its great to see that you have done plenty of research. In saying that, i think being your first reptile by the sounds of it, you might want to opt for something smaller like a bearded dragon or water dragon or even an ackie. (smaller species of monitor). Ps, Reptiles are highly addictive!


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## Jesse_H (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi Hurcorh!

Thank you so much, you've made my day! In terms of research I've read bennett's book on monitor husbandry as well as a few others, also some snake books and spent the last year on this and other forums. I've emailed a few doctors on biology/breeders and pestered authors of VHS Odatria atricles to no end! Also spoke with some heads of biology at la trobe, they do research with lacies occasionally. At present I own a turtle which, while it's no monitor, does require quite specific care and very regular maintenance. I'm still a few months off any purchase and intend to take my time finding out more about what's REALLY involved in long term lace monitor care, warts (and scars!) and all. I have read enough now to fully appreciate all advice to start with ackies instead. So far, I think I am in a position to raise a juvenile into adulthood and beyond, but I want to be 110% sure. In short I need opportunities to meet with local keepers for a chat and discuss logistics. If you'd be kind enough to meet with me, please pm and we'll go from there. Many thanks again for the opportunity!


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## ollie (Aug 13, 2011)

Jesse

You'd be welcome to come around and meet my lacies. Wouldn't recommend them as a first herp though they can be quite a handfull at times. Having a hungry 1.5 metre lace monitor come running at you when you open the aviary door can be quite intimidating and they have the potential to cause some serious injuries. They start off young and cute but in 12 months time they start tearing apart a three foot enclosure and you really need to get them outside!! Anyway happy to have a chat to you about them and show you my clan. Think you have my number - did you get the article in the mail?


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## snakehandler (Aug 13, 2011)

Get some medium monitors first, make mistakes with the smaller stuff before taking in such a difficult monitor, go for a sandy or mertons first and graduate up!


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## Jesse_H (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi Ollie! Didn't realize it was you! Thanks so much for your mail. That's a very kind offer to let me visit your lacies. I do have some method to my madness going straight to a lace- I live in Melbourne and don't have room indoors for a monitor enclosure (only for maybe a year for a lace hatchie) so I want an outdoor enclosure. I can see from other keepers that the lace is about the only large monitor that will handle Melbourne climate. I know it's not just a 2m bluey or a cuddle toy, I'm approaching the idea with the mindset that it will be a non-touchie feely pet, and to be enjoyed from a distance, with respect and caution. I really appreciate and understand everyone's suggestions and input, and rest assured that during my research if I have even the slightest doubt that I might be getting my ambitions mixed up with my capabilities, I'll abort the notion immediately. I don't do things half-arsed and want only the best for every herp I see.


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## crocdoc (Aug 14, 2011)

Jesse_H said:


> rest assured that during my research if I have even the slightest doubt that I might be getting my ambitions mixed up with my capabilities, I'll abort the notion immediately.


Jesse, try not to take this the wrong way but, rest assured, you *ARE* getting your ambitions mixed up with your capabilities. Abort the notion immediately. Do not get a lace monitor if all you've ever kept is a turtle. There is no comparison beyond them both being reptiles. It isn't about specific care and regular maintenance, it's about a large, fast moving reptile with sharp teeth that will injure you permanently if you misread the cues and stuff up. All of the research in the world isn't going to give you the experience you need in gauging reptile behaviour. Heads of biology at universities aren't the people you should be speaking to, either. Even their field assistants, who are probably doing the hands-on work, will be trapping and or catching wild lace monitors rather than looking after captives. Captives have a much greater potential to cause damage than wild monitors because people working on wild monitors tend to restrain them to prevent injury. Even the understanding that your captive is not going to be a 'touchy-feely pet' doesn't take away from the fact that you'll still have to enter its enclosure for feeding and cleaning and even really 'tame' monitors will sometimes switch into 'food-brain' mode at inappropriate times. They'll catch you off guard if you've had little reptile experience and that's where the injuries happen. As you read this, take a good look at your hands and ask yourself if you can afford to risk losing functionality of one or more digits, for that's pretty much what's at stake with a bad bite.

I repeat, do NOT get a lace monitor. This is coming from someone that has very 'tame' lace monitors and has been breeding them for years (and is also a trained biologist, if that's important to you). This is not a personal attack, but someone giving advice on the basis of experience with the animal in question.


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## reptilian1924 (Aug 14, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> Jesse, try not to take this the wrong way but, rest assured, you *ARE* getting your ambitions mixed up with your capabilities. Abort the notion immediately. Do not get a lace monitor if all you've ever kept is a turtle. There is no comparison beyond them both being reptiles. It isn't about specific care and regular maintenance, it's about a large, fast moving reptile with sharp teeth that will injure you permanently if you misread the cues and stuff up. All of the research in the world isn't going to give you the experience you need in gauging reptile behaviour. Heads of biology at universities aren't the people you should be speaking to, either. Even their field assistants, who are probably doing the hands-on work, will be trapping and or catching wild lace monitors rather than looking after captives. Captives have a much greater potential to cause damage than wild monitors because people working on wild monitors tend to restrain them to prevent injury. Even the understanding that your captive is not going to be a 'touchy-feely pet' doesn't take away from the fact that you'll still have to enter its enclosure for feeding and cleaning and even really 'tame' monitors will sometimes switch into 'food-brain' mode at inappropriate times. They'll catch you off guard if you've had little reptile experience and that's where the injuries happen. As you read this, take a good look at your hands and ask yourself if you can afford to risk losing functionality of one or more digits, for that's pretty much what's at stake with a bad bite.
> 
> I repeat, do NOT get a lace monitor. This is coming from someone that has very 'tame' lace monitors and has been breeding them for years (and is also a trained biologist, if that's important to you). This is not a personal attack, but someone giving advice on the basis of experience with the animal in question.



Crocdoc, Well said in regards to keeping large monitors as a pet, such as the risk envolved with them and what could happend to you when you enter their enclosure, like you say they can catch you off guard l could not have said it better myself.

We need people like you who have years experience in keeping and breeding medium & large Monitors, to get the message across to those who a new to the herp community, to teach them the risk in keeping large Monitors before they rush out and get hold of one as their very first pet Monitor thank you.

You can keep Sand Monitor's outdoor all year around here in Melbourne as long as you provide a enclosure with a enclosed area for them to escape the cold wintery wet weather, you must also provide a basking spot with temperatures set between 35'c to 55'c only in the basking spot, and keep the sand pit area dry during the cold and wet wintery months.View attachment 213744


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## dangles (Aug 14, 2011)

reptilian1933 said:


> Crocdoc, Well said in regards to keeping large monitors as a pet, such as the risk envolved with them and what could happend to you when you enter their enclosure, like you say they can catch you off guard l could not have said it better myself.
> 
> We need people like you who have years experience in keeping and breeding medium & large Monitors, to get the message across to those who a new to the herp community, to teach them the risk in keeping large Monitors before they rush out and get hold of one as their very first pet Monitor thank you.
> 
> You can keep Sand Monitor's outdoor all year around here in Melbourne as long as you provide a enclosure with a enclosed area for them to ascape the cold wintery wet weather, you must also provide a basking spot with temperatures set between 35'c to 55'c only in the basking spot, and keep the sand pit area dry during the cold and wet wintery months.View attachment 213744



love that setup, quick question, do those pvc pipes run down into boxes ,or just buried into the sand?


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## reptilian1924 (Aug 14, 2011)

The pvc pipes a attached to pine timber that is used to make the hide boxes on each side of the sand pit, thanks for your reply and for the feed back on what use to be my large Desert Sand Monitor outdoor enclosure, that l sincerely miss not having here anymore at my place.


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## RSPcrazy (Aug 14, 2011)

This is a video of my mates lacies being fed and grabbing his mates hand in the proses of trying to get the chicken from him. It shows you just how fast a big lacie can be and how dangerous they can be at feeding time.He still can't move his fingers properly.How Not To Feed A Big Monitor Lizard - YouTube


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## crocdoc (Aug 14, 2011)

*now THAT'S hands-on!*

Thanks for that link! Now THAT'S 'hands-on' experience. 

That's a good video for showing 1. the speed of lace monitors at feeding time and 2. how not to feed lace monitors. I'm amazed his don't rip each other apart at feeding time!

Strange enclosure - looks like the inside of a barn. How many lace monitors does he keep together in there?


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## r3ptilian (Aug 14, 2011)

"DAMN" thats gotta hurt.


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## Laghairt (Aug 14, 2011)

Holy *****, that was mental. 



RSPcrazy said:


> This is a video of my mates lacies being fed and grabbing his mates hand in the proses of trying to get the chicken from him. It shows you just how fast a big lacie can be and how dangerous they can be at feeding time.He still can't move his fingers properly.How Not To Feed A Big Monitor Lizard - YouTube


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 14, 2011)

I notice he gets his mate to do the "hand feeding". I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it! Thanks for sharing.


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## Jesse_H (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi all!

First, can I please thank everyone for taking the time to provide input in this thread, I greatly appreciate it. After hearing everyone's words (and watching that great YouTube clip!!) it has finally dawned on me that I have indeed been getting my ambitions and capabilities confused. I'd be a fool not to listen to you guys, so I've decided to start small and get an ackie and watch it grow. I love herps so much I'd be just as happy with a blue tongue as a lacey, so that in itself is reason why I should just probably stick to something basic and let my experience grow. Thank you again for your very justified concerns and subsequent input, hopefully this thread will be around for a while for others in similar situations to read and help make a considered and sensible decision. Thanks again everyone, especially crocdoc!


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## Laghairt (Aug 14, 2011)

Crocdoc,

What kind of experience would you recommend before taking the plunge and keeping lacies? I hope to keep them one day but certainly don't want to bite off more than I can chew. I currently keep V. acanthurus and V. gilleni but after seeing that vid I don't think experience in keeping the pygmy varanids would prepare you for that kind of feeding response. Is there an 'in between' species you would recommend?


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## saximus (Aug 14, 2011)

I've heard sandies are decent because they get big like lacies but a bit friendlier


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## abnrmal91 (Aug 14, 2011)

That would hurt just a little lol. I want one eventually but not for a couple of years. I think I need practice juggling chainsaws first.


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## crocdoc (Aug 14, 2011)

Your _acanthurus _and _gilleni_ probably have the same feeding response, just without the size and consequent noise that goes with it! There are plenty of medium sized species out there - _gouldii, gouldii flavirufus, spenceri_ (although I've seen the odd male get huge) and _mertensi_, for example. The good thing about those species is that the bite isn't going to do as much damage if you do get bitten, so you don't have to learn the hard way. However, even raising the smaller species you've got now will give you some idea of monitor behaviour, so if you eventually decided to start with a young lacie you should be ready for it by the time it reaches adult size.

In NSW lace monitors require an advanced licence and I think there's good reasoning behind that.


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 14, 2011)

I know this is really a question for crocdoc, but I had Spencer's for a few years prior to Lacies and found they had a similar feed response in terms of speed/ agility, but seemed more timid and less inclined to go that one step further, though generalising about any larger monitors feed response is fraught with danger. Spencer's also tend to be more terrestrial than Lacies which helps.

Apologies, I was still typing while you were responding.


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## Laghairt (Aug 14, 2011)

OK thanks, my male acanthurus is actually quite aggressive so I guess that's good practice. I'm always amazed at how sharp his teeth are when he tags me, which hasn't happened for a while now.

I have noticed that some of the behavior is the same for the Pygmys and for the lacies. For example the way they nudge food (or fingers) before going for a bite. I guess being able to interpret monitor body language will be important. Can't wait until I have one of the big guys.


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## pythrulz (Aug 14, 2011)

Very good advice from crocdoc as well as others I bought a lacie of him about a year ago you cant really get any hands on exsperience because there very shy and timid creatures as hatchies all the way up to adult and they do run mighty fast and you better get out of there way quick or you have seen what happens that guy was very lucky if all those lacies ran for him hed be sliced up very quickly as long as your always mindful and repect of what they can do they are very impressive but you can never pick it up and pat it like a cat or even a snake


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## Jesse_H (Aug 14, 2011)

pythonrulz, if I may point something prudent out to you that will assist you with your future posts my good man! Observe....

"Let's eat Grandma!"
"Let's eat, Grandma!"

^^^ Punctuation saves lives!


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## RSPcrazy (Aug 14, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> Thanks for that link! Now THAT'S 'hands-on' experience. That's a good video for showing 1. the speed of lace monitors at feeding time and 2. how not to feed lace monitors. I'm amazed his don't rip each other apart at feeding time!Strange enclosure - looks like the inside of a barn. How many lace monitors does he keep together in there?


He made this masive "barn style" enclosure in the back of his garage. I beleave he keeps 4 in there, but I don't know for sure.


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