# Bearded Dragon Killing Spree



## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

I had what I thought was a Male and Female Bearded Dragon pair. 
I bought them both at 8 weeks old within a week of eachother and from 2 different locations so I didnt end up with brother and sister. They are now about 2 years old, and the male is a fair bit larger then the female but I never had any problems.
About a month and a half ago I went out for the day and when I got home my female was dead. :cry: Her head seemed to be squashed at the top. :shock:
Well immediately I blamed my cat, which had a few weeks earlier jumped on top of the tank and broke one of the lid pieces, so I figured that he had gone in the tank and played with the lizard while we were out, so I punished him. :evil:
A week later I purchased another female bearded dragon that was a little bit bigger then my previous female, so she was closer to the size of the male. Well everything was going well.... Then about 2 weeks ago I was off work sick (thankfully) and I heard this strange noise, so I went to investigate, and I saw my male had the female by the head and was dragging her thru the tank :shock: So I quickly released her from his grip, only to find that her jaw is now slightly out of place, and one of her eyes had been popped from the extreme force of his bite. :cry: Well I have been keeping her seperate since and for the 1st few days I was giving her food and water thru a syringe so it gave her head a chance to heal a bit.

Well my question is.... Why is he trying to kill the other dragons? It isnt because of a lack of food as on both occasions I had crickets running around the tank and had just fed him vegies. I just dont know what to do anymore about my boy. I really want to keep both dragons but I dont want to have to have 2 seperate tanks. Help please!!


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

They ARE solitary.. Dragons SHOULDN'T be kept with eachover.. male/female will over breed, two males will fight, and two females MAY get along but its not 100% positive.. Even if there brother/sister it doesn't matter..


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## Chris1 (Sep 26, 2008)

dragons are very territorial animals, males should be kept seperate to avoid these kind of situations.

if youre happy to keep replacing females for him to kill, keep them together,..otherwise its a good idea to keep them seperate.  even if it means setting up another tank.

my boy isnt even in the same room as my females, hes so agressive he'll damage himself on teh glass.


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## Rocky (Sep 26, 2008)

biancanbobby said:


> Well my question is.... Why is he trying to kill the other dragons? It isnt because of a lack of food as on both occasions I had crickets running around the tank and had just fed him vegies. I just dont know what to do anymore about my boy. I really want to keep both dragons but I dont want to have to have 2 seperate tanks. Help please!!




Terrible to hear, but you should know that a male and female should not be kept together all year round, some cases it will work, but in others the damage can be fatal, as it was in your situation. There really is no way to keep them both in one tank, you either should sell one, or buy a 2nd enclosure.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

I always thought that they could be kept together all year round as I read about it on the internet and thru books before purchasing my dragons and from all I read it advised me that they are one of the very few lizards that can be kept together all year round... I will just have to get a second tank. :x


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

biancanbobby said:


> I always thought that they could be kept together all year round as I read about it on the internet and thru books before purchasing my dragons and from all I read it advised me that they are one of the very few lizards that can be kept together all year round... I will just have to get a second tank. :x



The sources you found are rubbish.. They are one of the lizards you shouldn't keep together... It seems monitors and blueys are a better choice if you want to house lizards together..


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Well I know now, shame I didnt know that before he killed the first female.


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## Chris1 (Sep 26, 2008)

i keep 4 females together,..well i use that term loosely, tehy share a loungeroom with no problems, even the girls fight which is why i dont lock them in a tank together,....

dont worry, heaps of people KNOW they shouldnt house their dragons together and do it anyway then get upset when things go bad, @ least u were just misinformed.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Chris1 said:


> dont worry, heaps of people KNOW they shouldnt house their dragons together and do it anyway then get upset when things go bad, @ least u were just misinformed.


 
They just shouldnt have pets then :x Kinda reminds me of my next door neighbours that houses 3 dogs together that constantly fight, then the dogs ended up killing 1 of the others.... Complete morons!

I will sort my tank out tonight... I wont buy another tank, I will just devide the current one which is large enough to do so.

Thank you all so much for your help!


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## Chris1 (Sep 26, 2008)

yeah, heaps of people shouldnt have pets,.. 

i'm really happy to hear you arent one of those people though, your dragons will be so happy with you for seperating them! (especially ur girl)


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Yeah she will be happy to be out of the other tank I think.
Poor thing though, she will never look as cute as she used to, although she still has the personality that she had before he tried killing her.


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## Chris1 (Sep 26, 2008)

so is she blind in one eye?
is her jaw back in place?

shame shes not as pretty, but at least her owner is kind enough to still love and care for her.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Chris1 said:


> so is she blind in one eye?
> is her jaw back in place?
> 
> shame shes not as pretty, but at least her owner is kind enough to still love and care for her.


 
Yeah she is blind in one eye, at the moment anyway. It seems pussy under her eyelid, but has gone down alot since the attack, so she may come good. She had both eyes shut for about 4 days when he attacked her as she is missing her 2nd eyelids on her good eye, so it must have been sore. But that eye is fine now and he can see really well, and when I put my hand in the tank she comes running up and onto it.

Her jaw is very slightly out of place still but it gets better every day as she knocks it on the bottom of the tank (like a snake sometimes does) so I think by the time the weekend is over she will be looking normal again besides that eye.

But she is still very good looking.... That picture is her maybe 1 day before she was attacked.


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## hornet (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> The sources you found are rubbish.. They are one of the lizards you shouldn't keep together... It seems monitors and blueys are a better choice if you want to house lizards together..



sounds like your sources are rubbish, beardies are normally fine to keep together, i have been keeping beardies together for a good 7 years now, not the same animals but my current trio have been together for 3 years wqith no probs and i know many others on this forum that keep beardies together with no probs.

@biancanbobby: sorry to hear bout your probs, not 100% sure why he would be doing what he is since i have never had that prob but possibly just an overly agressive individual who in the case should be kept separate. Also sure its a boy? Sexing at 8 weeks isnt really reliable.


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## Chyka (Sep 26, 2008)

We bought two dragons that we thought were male and female, til one of our mates informed us they both may be males, we have had them together in a 4ft tank for 2 years, and never once had a blue. They sleep on top, or next to each other no probs, and feed from the same bowl.
Whether the 2nd is male or female still remains to be confirmed though, dont suppose anyone can tell from the look of it?


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> @biancanbobby: sorry to hear bout your probs, not 100% sure why he would be doing what he is since i have never had that prob but possibly just an overly agressive individual who in the case should be kept separate. Also sure its a boy? Sexing at 8 weeks isnt really reliable.


 
Yeah I am sure its a boy as I had him sexed when he was about a year old. As well as when he was just a baby.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Chyka said:


> We bought two dragons that we thought were male and female, til one of our mates informed us they both may be males, we have had them together in a 4ft tank for 2 years, and never once had a blue. They sleep on top, or next to each other no probs, and feed from the same bowl.
> Whether the 2nd is male or female still remains to be confirmed though, dont suppose anyone can tell from the look of it?


 
Both my females were the same with my male, sleeping together, sitting on eachother and eating from the same bowl. I never had a single problem with them even nipping at eachother until he killed the 1st one. :cry:


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## gregcranston (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> beardies are normally fine to keep together, i have been keeping beardies together for a good 7 years now, not the same animals but my current trio have been together for 3 years wqith no probs and i know many others on this forum that keep beardies together with no probs.


I'd have to agree here, but it depends on the individual dragons, some can be more aggresive than others. I've kept beardies together all year round for years now with no problems. I love their little social interactions, and they seem so mopey and miserable when I seperate them. 
Having said that, I have heard many horror stories (like biancanbobby's) of dragons that have been together for years suddenly one day go mad and 1 ends up dead or badly injured, but it is with great apprehension that I say "I guess that is a risk I'm wiling to take", as my beardies are just such good friends!


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> sounds like your sources are rubbish, beardies are normally fine to keep together, i have been keeping beardies together for a good 7 years now, not the same animals but my current trio have been together for 3 years wqith no probs and i know many others on this forum that keep beardies together with no probs.
> 
> @biancanbobby: sorry to hear bout your probs, not 100% sure why he would be doing what he is since i have never had that prob but possibly just an overly agressive individual who in the case should be kept separate. Also sure its a boy? Sexing at 8 weeks isnt really reliable.



Sure they might be fine together, one day something might happen? It seems that most aussies say they house them together... I and many others do not recommend it. No 'probs' doesn't mean its ok either. Why risk it? Just because you and a few hundred do it doesn't mean its the right way.. more dragons die from being together then there are good cases of housing together. My sources aren't rubbish as mine have came from experienced people and many bearded dragon sites that just specialize in vitticeps.


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## JasonL (Sep 26, 2008)

It doesn't matter what your keeping together, if you have two of them, you'll increase your chances of one harming the other one, be it dragons, snakes, dogs or birds, It would be rare for Bearded Dragons to harm each other in such a way, sure it does happen from time to time, and usually from a single bad tempered animal, but it's certainly not common. The biggest problems from keeping multiple BDs together is from stress, stress effects each animal in different ways, usually going un-noticed by the keeper, but it will be there. Still saying all that, I have kept multiple dragons together for many years, breeding thousands of them in the process, and have never had a adult do any physical damage to another adult, except from the usual breeding wounds (very very minor), I have multiple enclosures, and animals get rotated between them depending on what happening within the group. I'd advise you to replace that particular male and start from scratch if you plan on breeding.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

JasonL said:


> . I'd advise you to replace that particular male and start from scratch if you plan on breeding.


 
I was thinking that this may be a better option. But he has never shown agression before, so I dont understand the sudden need to wanna drag the females around the tank via their head.


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## JasonL (Sep 26, 2008)

They drag them around by their heads for breeding, usually by the fatty tufts and spine ridge around the neck, sounds like your male is over keen, or just downright nasty..


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## Rocky (Sep 26, 2008)

biancanbobby said:


> Yeah she is blind in one eye, at the moment anyway. It seems pussy under her eyelid, but has gone down alot since the attack, so she may come good. She had both eyes shut for about 4 days when he attacked her as she is missing her 2nd eyelids on her good eye, so it must have been sore. But that eye is fine now and he can see really well, and when I put my hand in the tank she comes running up and onto it.
> 
> Her jaw is very slightly out of place still but it gets better every day as she knocks it on the bottom of the tank (like a snake sometimes does) so I think by the time the weekend is over she will be looking normal again besides that eye.
> 
> But she is still very good looking.... That picture is her maybe 1 day before she was attacked.



Did the vet give you anything to help the healing process?



hornet said:


> sounds like your sources are rubbish, beardies are normally fine to keep together, i have been keeping beardies together for a good 7 years now, not the same animals but my current trio have been together for 3 years wqith no probs and i know many others on this forum that keep beardies together with no probs.
> 
> @biancanbobby: sorry to hear bout your probs, not 100% sure why he would be doing what he is since i have never had that prob but possibly just an overly agressive individual who in the case should be kept separate. Also sure its a boy? Sexing at 8 weeks isnt really reliable.



I have heard many cases from both sides, alot of tail and toe nipping and death, but also alot of them staying together for years with out issue, In my opinion i think it differs from dragon to dragon, how they are bought up and the environment they are in.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Rocky said:


> Did the vet give you anything to help the healing process?
> 
> 
> > Nah the vet said that she will heal by herself and that the damage wasnt anything major and to just keep an eye on her and help her keep her fluids up, and I have done so and she is doing fine.


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## JasonL (Sep 26, 2008)

Was the second female the same size? , I could understand it happening if there was much of a size difference, adult dragons eat small lizards, and that includes their own kind, they may even prefer them to insects every now and then.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

JasonL said:


> Was the second female the same size? , I could understand it happening if there was much of a size difference, adult dragons eat small lizards, and that includes their own kind, they may even prefer them to insects every now and then.


 
She was smaller then him but bigger then the previous female. Maybe 5cms smaller then him.


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## MMAnne (Sep 26, 2008)

This is odd, I too have read that Dragon's are 'social creatures' and enjoy the company of other bearded dragons? I am pretty sure I read this on the Bearded Dragon Forum. I also know of many, many people that house more than one Dragon in the same enclosure together and have never had problems. Naturally, they were all of similar sizes - but still people are saying it should not be done full stop?

Well either way, would it be safer housing a female and a female together? What about two males (what about territorial probs)? I am getting a Central soon, but just one (_for now)_.

Hmm, what about ackies?


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## JasonL (Sep 26, 2008)

Be careful what you read on OS Bearded Dragon sites, after all, they think there is a need to bath desert dragon daily....... ackies tear into each other too.... and male/male reptiles of most species are best kept apart.


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## Dan19 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> Sure they might be fine together, one day something might happen? It seems that most aussies say they house them together... I and many others do not recommend it. No 'probs' doesn't mean its ok either. Why risk it? Just because you and a few hundred do it doesn't mean its the right way.. more dragons die from being together then there are good cases of housing together. My sources aren't rubbish as mine have came from experienced people and many bearded dragon sites that just specialize in vitticeps.


 
Do you have any solid proof for your statements. It seems most of your "sources" are from the internet. Believe it or not, but not everything on the internet is true.:shock:


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## MMAnne (Sep 26, 2008)

JasonL said:


> Be careful what you read on OS Bearded Dragon sites, after all, they think there is a need to bath desert dragon daily....... ackies tear into each other too.... and male/male reptiles of most species are best kept apart.



Thanks for that, I've yet to start my research on ackies yet, but again I have just seem so many kept together :S Esp at the reptile park, they keep alot of diff species together and they do fine. Then again, they have large enclosures.

I think I might just stay on the safe side and keep all my species separately (ok, except for housing multiple frogs or multiple geckos together, I have never heard of any problems on that account as long as the enclosure is big enough).

Although I still can't help but wonder - this isn't based on any kind of 'fact', but it still seems to me that more people don't have problems housing them together, than the amount of people that do. I think with the proper enclosure and a healthy dose of common sense, there is no reason Beardies can't have a house mate.


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## Rocky (Sep 26, 2008)

Dan19 said:


> Do you have any solid proof for your statements. It seems most of your "sources" are from the internet. Believe it or not, but not everything on the internet is true.:shock:




His proof would be threads like this, and other threads, ads that say "selling pair, the smaller one had nipped toes and a tail" and Hearing other stories of peoples bearded dragons. Sure, some people say that they have housed together for years with no issues, but so did the owner of this thread, and look what happened there.


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Dan19 said:


> Do you have any solid proof for your statements. It seems most of your "sources" are from the internet. Believe it or not, but not everything on the internet is true.:shock:



Do you have solid proof if you don't agree with me? I don't think anyone can fully prove either way. If you don't believe me and I showed some proof would you still disagree? probably. I don't say I;m right. I'm sure many of you house them together. From places I LEARNED this is what I found. Not all internet sites are bull. Even some books are wrong. There's many sites that show tests on uvb. Growth rates, nutritional values. It is down to the person what they believe is right. its nearly impossible to tell who is right and wrong.


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## Manda1032 (Sep 26, 2008)

biancanbobby said:


> I always thought that they could be kept together all year round as I read about it on the internet and thru books before purchasing my dragons and from all I read it advised me that they are one of the very few lizards that can be kept together all year round... I will just have to get a second tank. :x


 

I have to side with you there, I have a book that doesn't state anywhere that they cannot be kept together. Actually it tells you the requirements for keeping a number of beardies together.... from hatchie to adult!


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

Manda1032 said:


> I have to side with you there, I have a book that doesn't state anywhere that they cannot be kept together. Actually it tells you the requirements for keeping a number of beardies together.... from hatchie to adult!


 
I think we probably have the same book! I cant remember the name of my book but I know that it is green in colour....


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## Dan19 (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> Do you have solid proof if you don't agree with me? I don't think anyone can fully prove either way. If you don't believe me and I showed some proof would you still disagree? probably. I don't say I;m right. I'm sure many of you house them together. From places I LEARNED this is what I found. Not all internet sites are bull. Even some books are wrong. There's many sites that show tests on uvb. Growth rates, nutritional values. It is down to the person what they believe is right. its nearly impossible to tell who is right and wrong.


 
I was reffering to your first two post's. You have said exactly the right thing near the end of that last post. "It is down to the person what they believe is right." You do not know this person, yet you say there sources are rubbish. How do you know that they are not the biggest breeder in the country or personally know that person? I do not want to argue, pm me if you are that bored.


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## Manda1032 (Sep 26, 2008)

It's written and published for America but is sold heaps in pet shops in AUS its the guide to owning a bearded dragon, printed by t.f.h


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Dan19 said:


> I was reffering to your first two post's. You have said exactly the right thing near the end of that last post. "It is down to the person what they believe is right." You do not know this person, yet you say there sources are rubbish. How do you know that they are not the biggest breeder in the country or personally know that person? I do not want to argue, pm me if you are that bored.



"read about it on the internet and thru books" Is what she said. Some books seriously are wrong.. I wont name the book but it has way outdated information and says heat rocks are good to use and breeders use them. And internet, what you said can be wrong too.


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## Manda1032 (Sep 26, 2008)

The only thing it says in the book is to not keep little ones with larger ones


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## hydropython (Sep 26, 2008)

ddd


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## hydropython (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> "read about it on the internet and thru books" Is what she said. Some books seriously are wrong.. I wont name the book but it has way outdated information and says heat rocks are good to use and breeders use them. And internet, what you said can be wrong too.



Good to see that a person with many decades of experience keeping herps of many different types is giving out advice about what can be generally expected.

It makes me sad when so much misinformation is given out be people without knowledge.


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

hydropython said:


> Good to see that a person with many decades of experience keeping herps of many different types is giving out advice about what can be generally expected.
> 
> It makes me sad when so much misinformation is given out be people without knowledge.



I shouldn't be thanked. I have not had decades of experience. But I have learnt ALOT of things from many experienced keepers. Some from this site some from other places... I just try to help when I can lol. It seems that many keepers here though do it different ways then I have found works. But I can't say my information is fully correct.


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## gregcranston (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> I can't say my information is fully correct.


No-one can Dave, you're doing ok, I don't think age should be held against you or anyone. We all have different opinions on this matter, which is to be expected!


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## hydropython (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> I shouldn't be thanked. I have not had decades of experience. But I have learnt ALOT of things from many experienced keepers. Some from this site some from other places... I just try to help when I can lol. It seems that many keepers here though do it different ways then I have found works. But I can't say my information is fully correct.



:shock::shock::shock:You've nicely highlighted my point.:shock::shock::shock:

You were NOT helping at all. You say that the published references of some people are rubbish and fail to provide any published references to back your statements up.

Individual animals show variations in temperament and this is the major factor which should be accounted for when deciding whether or not to house animals together. 

Some humans are very social animals, some are down right anti social.

But to make a judgement that it is either ok, or not ok to keep humans together as a species generalisation based on observations made of a single pair, or on the interactions of one individual with a number of others is utter nonsense.

The only reason to not keep individuals together as a general rule is to prevent the situation from ever occurring. Some will cope well, others won't cope well at all.


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## cris (Sep 26, 2008)

Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.

As for keeping beardies together its normally fine if they have enough space and the individuals get along. Im sure there would be humans around who have killed someone who lives with them, but it is still generally safe to live with other humans. It is extremely important to watch carefully and use good judgement when putting any reptiles together.


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Sorry, I re read your last post, and I understand what you meant now. Since I haven't been keeping reptiles since I was 4 I must be wrong. I don't see why some people think young people don't know anything..




hydropython said:


> :shock::shock::shock:You've nicely highlighted my point.:shock::shock::shock:
> 
> You were NOT helping at all. You say that the published references of some people are rubbish and fail to provide any published references to back your statements up.
> 
> ...


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## hydropython (Sep 26, 2008)

cris said:


> Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.
> 
> As for keeping beardies together its normally fine if they have enough space and the individuals get along. Im sure there would be humans around who have killed someone who lives with them, but it is still generally safe to live with other humans. It is extremely important to watch carefully and use good judgement when putting any reptiles together.



Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## gregcranston (Sep 26, 2008)

hydropython said:


> You were NOT helping at all. .


Ease up Newby! :x


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## hydropython (Sep 26, 2008)

gregcranston said:


> Ease up Newby! :x



Its noob.

and new to the site is not at all the same to lacking experience.


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

gregcranston said:


> Ease up Newby! :x



LOL!

I was asked for proof once, and then he said he didn't want to argue so left? Do you really want me to post a page or so of information on why not to house bearded dragons together? I've seen 50+ people come along and say "my dragon killed the other" "my dragons keep breeding" "my dragon has lost all limbs and died" etc etc. No matter how many people say they house them together OK doesn't even compare to stories of dragons dying. In the wild they don't follow eachover around in a cage that is nothing like the wild.. They don't bask together, they wont eat together, they will only meet up to breed or fighting for territory. It is the Truth.


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## biancanbobby (Sep 26, 2008)

cris said:


> Biancanbobby, you need to keep in mind reptiles dont see other animals as friends(with few exceptions), what you show in your avatar is asking for trouble, both could kill each other very quickly.


 
Just FYI The lizard in the photo is a toy. Its not even real!


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Here you go buddy! This is a bad case that has happen. This is the story then I will post pictures of him if you don't believe me..

hello everyone. i am a new member (i created an e-mail account for the sole purpose of joining your community), and my reason is to try and give my beardie it's best shot at life. i searched your wonderfully extensive forums before starting this post as i did not want to add clutterous new topics to your agenda, but it seems i may have to... forgive me if i do not follow the correct parameters of posting, for this is my first.

i was browsing the isles of my local pet store when i noticed something wrong. in a ten gallon terrarium i observed one bearded dragon(sex unknown) far away from the other four and it was huddling against the glass in a near vertical position. all four legs had been terribly mangled by it's tank mates(i suspect during an unsupervised feeding) and it seemed to have already died. the two hind legs were reduced to un-symetrical stumps and both of its front legs seemed to be completely missing. i was deeply struck to see it open its eyes briefly only to slowly close them again. when i asked the store owner what had happened he seemed oblivious to the situation(granted it was a very fresh scene) and said it had died. i held back my anger and suggested that his assesment was incorrect. i then asked him if i could have it since it was going to die anyhow and he accepted.

(im going to use the pronoun "him" because "it" has such a cold feel) 

the first night i brought him home i really didn't think he would make it to morning. i held him in my hand as i walked to the bathroom to administer what little aid i could for the time being. i mixed a solution of 25%hydrogen per oxide(at 4% dilution) and luke-warm water in a shallow dish and gently rinsed his wounds. i'm not cirtain if he was too tired to fight back or just in shock but i was extra delicate just in case the bathing was painful or stressful. the wounds themselves were atrocious: his left arm seemed to be the only remaining limb aside from his tail but it was badly wounded and tucked tightly against his chest(appearently broken). his right arm was closer to chewed-over piece of jerky than a limb and was congeled to his torso. each of his back legs had been cropped neatly, as if with a pair of scissors... i feared gangrene or infection would take him in the night and(being a new pet owner) the best i could do was to place him in a large tupperware container (no lid of course) with a fluffy towell to rest on in a warm place. i felt dismal comfort in thinking "at least to die here will be less terrifying than to die alone in a dark, cold, smelly corner waiting to be finished like so much chinese food". when i awoke the next morning the first thing i did was go to see if he had made it, and he had.

he was awake and all of the wounds had already started to scab over. over the next few days i realized that his right arm, while fully connected to his body, would have to be removed. in the days since i brought him home the limb continued to degrade until finally i made the hard descision to amputate. i examined the limb from afar for at least ten minutes before i finally picked him up. i had heard people say that when they cut their birds nails too short they use a small amount of ash to stop the bleeding so i had a small pile of ash as well as toilet paper squares incase something should go wrong. as i held the sharpest scissors i could find in one hand and the dragon in the other, i studied the arm for another ten minutes trying to find where it was still livid and made the deciscion to cut conservativly away from that point(hoping the nerves were dead there). to my relief i was able to take it in one clean motion without a drop of blood and on closer examination found that i couldnt have removed it soon enough. it was riddled with infection and had no sign of scabs or healing. left over was a little stump about a centameter long. over the next few days i gave him subsequent bathings in the same solution and he finally ate his first cricket. another week went by when one day i was delighted to see his little left arm untucked for the first time! the hand on this limb had suffered the same fate as his now amputated arm and i reluctantly followed the same procedure as before to an identical outcome: a clean, conservative removal of only the most damaged portion. after that, it was clear sailing. considering he was almost completely immobile and totally dependant his demeanor was surprisingly sunny. he began wiggling aroung his container(kind of like when soilders crawl on their belly under barbed wire) and seemed to be coping with his disabilities quite well. 

well fast forward seven months and i've got a second-hand ten-gallon terrarium from a friend and lined it with smooth river stones under his lamp(a 30watt 7%uvb flourescent) and digestible calium sand on the dark half. since climbing is unfortunatly not an option for him(this makes me sad) i put various low profile branches around the cage for proping up on. he gets to go and bask in my back yard whenever i have an hour or so to just sit out in the sun and watch him carefully(he seems weary of any birds overhead) it took me months to finally get him to understand the concept of a water bowl(until then i was giving him a daily drink of water from my finger tip). feeding seems to be a minor difficulty, as any insect could easily out-maneuvor him. we've got it down to a routine: as sad as it may seem, i must break the back legs of the crickets i feed him or else when i place them in his mouth they jump clear out of the cage. i just recently got him eating greens(so far only romaine but im letting him try new things too).

well thats pretty much where im at right now. any sound advice would be great, for as i previously stated im just trying to give him the best shot at lifewith the cards he was dealt. sorry if this post was really long winded, and thanks for your time.


(This guy is in America though. but it still shows you what happens... somethings he did he shouldn't of though..)


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Picture when baby
















Want more stories and evidence MR? I'm sure Kirby from this site knows this case...


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## hornet (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> LOL!
> 
> I was asked for proof once, and then he said he didn't want to argue so left? Do you really want me to post a page or so of information on why not to house bearded dragons together? I've seen 50+ people come along and say "my dragon killed the other" "my dragons keep breeding" "my dragon has lost all limbs and died" etc etc. No matter how many people say they house them together OK doesn't even compare to stories of dragons dying. In the wild they don't follow eachover around in a cage that is nothing like the wild.. They don't bask together, they wont eat together, they will only meet up to breed or fighting for territory. It is the Truth.



i have only heard of a very few accounts of beardies killing eachother. Nipped tails and toes is not uncommon but is a totally different problem to what we are talking about here, nipped tails and toes normally happens when hatchies are kept together and toes or tails are mistaken as food. The problem Bianca is having is an agression problem. I have heard far more cases of people keeping their beardies together with no problems then i have of people having them bully or attack eachother. I know very well they are solitary in the wild, quite commony see them out in the field and never in the company of others but that does not mean they shouldnt be kept together, in most cases it will be fine. Only reason i will keep dragons of the same species separate is if there is a major size difference or there have been problems with stress which has only been once where i had a young cane grass dragon go off its food when kept with its clutch mate, that dragon is now back up to health and back with its clutch mate in the hope of getting young this season.


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## gregcranston (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


>


 He's beautiful!


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> i have only heard of a very few accounts of beardies killing eachother. Nipped tails and toes is not uncommon but is a totally different problem to what we are talking about here, nipped tails and toes normally happens when hatchies are kept together and toes or tails are mistaken as food. The problem Bianca is having is an agression problem. I have heard far more cases of people keeping their beardies together with no problems then i have of people having them bully or attack eachother. I know very well they are solitary in the wild, quite commony see them out in the field and never in the company of others but that does not mean they shouldnt be kept together, in most cases it will be fine. Only reason i will keep dragons of the same species separate is if there is a major size difference or there have been problems with stress which has only been once where i had a young cane grass dragon go off its food when kept with its clutch mate, that dragon is now back up to health and back with its clutch mate in the hope of getting young this season.



I realise this, I was showing what can happen before death.. Two beardies can end up like those pictures.. or even death.. I've seen adults take tails and toe nips too not only juvi's. I think I would prefer to keep seperate and spend money on another enclosure uvb etc then have things like that happen..


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## Dan19 (Sep 26, 2008)

This is a story I have found myself on the internet.

Hey everyone,
I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
Thanks.
Internet.

As i have said, if you want to keep discussing this with me, feel free to give me a pm. I do not want to disturb this thread anymore that i have.
And BiancanBobby, is there any chance a rock or something heavy could have moved/fallen onto the first bearded dragons head, as i didn't think a bearded dragon could fully squish anothers head so much?


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## gregcranston (Sep 26, 2008)

Dan19 said:


> This is a story I have found myself on the internet.
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
> ...


 
LOL!! 
Is that for real Dan, or did you just write it youreself?


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

Dan19 said:


> This is a story I have found myself on the internet.
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
> ...



.... How could I make up a story plus pictures then?  Be arrogant about it then. I was just trying to help somebody out by showing some proof? What proof do you want if I can't copy and paste something?  I don't see why just because i'm 14 means I'm a stupid idiot....


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## =bECS= (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> Want more stories and evidence MR? I'm sure Kirby from this site knows this case...



Don't tell me your another one that's going to regurgitate that American rubbish on here too 


Dan19 said:


> This is a story I have found myself on the internet.
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I am only 12 years old and I have been keeping bearded dragons for over 15 years now! But am a newby here. I live in Antarctica, and keep bearded dragons as a pet. For some wierd reason my bearded dragons that I have been getting imported here keep dying! I have optimum conditions here in Antarctica, that is the reason why I keep them in an outside Avairy. I feed them 1 cricket a day and always have fresh vegies out for them. They really love there vegies frozen! I would like to know what is happening to my precious beardies and solve this problem. I suspect rough play from the housemates.
> ...



Thats gold!!

Bianca, as its already been said, some beardies can be more aggressive than others. 
I personally keep and have kept several beardies together, but its probably best for you to separate them if you dont know what signs to look for and are new to keeping.


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

becswillbe said:


> Don't tell me your another one that's going to regurgitate that American rubbish on here too
> 
> 
> Thats gold!!
> ...



I'm sure thats why our dragons are nice and healthy then? Having no husbandry problems or health problems  It seems like Americans are far ahead of us in Dragons in captivity then us :lol:


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## =bECS= (Sep 26, 2008)

funny, i read that americans are having alot of trouble with diseases etc in beardies


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

becswillbe said:


> funny, i read that americans are having alot of trouble with diseases etc in beardies



LOL. What adeno? rofl. We seem to have diseases aswell


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## hornet (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> I'm sure thats why our dragons are nice and healthy then? Having no husbandry problems or health problems  It seems like Americans are far ahead of us in Dragons in captivity then us :lol:



actually from what i hear the americans have far more health problems with their dragons than we do.


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## hornet (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> LOL. What adeno? rofl. We seem to have diseases aswell



nothing compared to the probs the yanks have


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> nothing compared to the probs the yanks have


'

ompv? sure its not for just dragons seems to be wiping out collections though... We can't even test for that yet... Atleast adeno can be tested, the tests can come up negative even though its there but atleast there getting there... I don't see why everyone hates yanks, sure they cross every reptile they can get ahold of. But they seem to do very good keeping...


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## =bECS= (Sep 26, 2008)

*sigh* as much as id like to sit here and continue to hijack this thread, i have some candles to light then beardies to bath in rosepetals before tucking them in their little beds tonight and serenading them to sleep.I have my barry white cd already loaded and cuddles the youngest wants to watch simpsons before bed.
i learnt this on the american forums, because they are always right *sigh*.


Bianca, let us know how the little female goes


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## Black_Venom (Sep 26, 2008)

I wouldn't look at this as a species problem its obviously a individual personality problem 

this individual problem needs to be dealt with and not pushed aside to someone else
he needs to kept permanently separate and never with another dragon


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## Rocky (Sep 26, 2008)

Manda1032 said:


> I have to side with you there, I have a book that doesn't state anywhere that they cannot be kept together. Actually it tells you the requirements for keeping a number of beardies together.... from hatchie to adult!



Just because it's in a book doesn't make it correct, thats like saying everything you read in a Newspaper is Spot on haha. 



hydropython said:


> You were NOT helping at all. You say that the published references of some people are rubbish and fail to provide any published references to back your statements up.



I don't think your allowed to name names on this website.


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## hornet (Sep 26, 2008)

Black_Venom said:


> I wouldn't look at this as a species problem its obviously a individual personality problem
> 
> this individual problem needs to be dealt with and not pushed aside to someone else
> he needs to kept permanently separate and never with another dragon



wow, look its an 11yr old giving good advice. Dave its not because of your age its because your information is incorrect


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## Dave (Sep 26, 2008)

hornet said:


> wow, look its an 11yr old giving good advice. Dave its not because of your age its because your information is incorrect



How is it incorect when loads of people do it like me :S It doesn't make sense? look at kirby's dragons.. Just because its different then feeding pinkies keeping them on sand and so on... I'd love to see where you can prove im wrong when a beardie site I belong to does it aswell and there all happy healthy dragons :lol:


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## Black_Venom (Sep 26, 2008)

Hornet....................................thanks its only basic logic


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## shane14 (Sep 26, 2008)

Would this also be the same for Netted Dragons or just bearded Dragons?


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## cris (Sep 26, 2008)

biancanbobby said:


> Just FYI The lizard in the photo is a toy. Its not even real!



haha  cool toy


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## Hickson (Sep 26, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> How is it incorect when loads of people do it like me



I think it's this comment from Post#6 of this thread that has upset people:



> The sources you found are rubbish.. They are one of the lizards you shouldn't keep together...



You are suggesting that there is only one way to keep Beardies, and that is separated; that keeping them together year round is wrong. Lots of people might keep them like you do, that doesn't mean keeping them a different way is wrong, which is essentially what you're saying.

Also the fact that you're signature says you keep one female beardie, yet you're prepared to argue that people who have kept and bred hundreds are wrong in their ideas might have raised a few hackles too.

Not having a go at you, just trying to explain why a few people are upset with you.



Hix


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## dragon lady (Sep 26, 2008)

all species will have a bad apple amongst them
seeking out the problem area & fixing it ,all adds to the keepers experience...& the knowledge learned..always trying to see other points of view

ive ran my dragons together...in a colony
my son has a dragon which we would never dream of colonising..due to his temperament-personality
its a close personality watch...& husbandry suited to their needs
it can be done..buts its not for everyone

Hix... spot on


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## TheBoga (Sep 26, 2008)

I think it comes down to if you keep a few beardies together be prepared that it may end badly. Doesn't matter what the animal is either.

My two dogs have grown up together but once in a while I will have to go out and break them up as they are nearly killing each other, really nasty fights, injuries and all, and it seems for no apparent reason most of the time.


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## Miss B (Sep 26, 2008)

I keep my adult beardies singly, as well as in small groups (females), pairs, or trios. They all have their own individual temperament and some do well together, others don't. It's as simple as that.

I think the post made by Black_Venom is possibly the smartest thing that has been said in this entire thread so far, and from an 11-year old! So no, I don't think age is a factor here. People who have little experience should not be giving advice. Go out, buy a few more beardies, watch them, learn, and then you'll know what you're talking about. There's no point spouting every little bit of crap you read on the internet. I mean seriously.... beardies taking daily baths? :shock:


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## shane14 (Sep 26, 2008)

I think that if buying some buy already pairs or Trios that way they have been used to each other as youngsters


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## hornet (Sep 27, 2008)

Dave94 said:


> How is it incorect when loads of people do it like me :S It doesn't make sense? look at kirby's dragons.. Just because its different then feeding pinkies keeping them on sand and so on... I'd love to see where you can prove im wrong when a beardie site I belong to does it aswell and there all happy healthy dragons :lol:



just becuase some people keep them by themselvs doesnt mean its the only way. You said they should never be kept together which is incorrect. I'm not saying keeping them by themselvs is not the right way to do it, it will work perfectly fine but saying that its the only way is wrong


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## dragon lady (Sep 27, 2008)

Majority of mine have grown up together
it has not affected their growth....i believe it has benefited them
must be wary of individual personalities though
its up to individual keepers to see how it works for them
its very time consuming to raise & colonise dragons


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## daniel1234 (Sep 27, 2008)

MMAnne said:


> Thanks for that, I've yet to start my research on ackies yet, but again I have just seem so many kept together :S Esp at the reptile park, they keep alot of diff species together and they do fine. Then again, they have large enclosures..


 
Thats what I was thinking. Maybe a space thing? (some one will proberbly confirm if this is true as I am only up to this post on the thread)


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## Aslan (Sep 28, 2008)

Hix said:


> Also the fact that you're signature says you keep one female beardie, yet you're prepared to argue that people who have kept and bred _hundreds_ are wrong in their ideas might have raised a few hackles too.


 
..._thousands_ I would imagine in the case of a few of the breeders who have commented...


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## biancanbobby (Sep 30, 2008)

cris said:


> haha  cool toy


 
It is hey? My neighbour pinched it off her niece because she reckoned it would look good on top of my tank and would scare people :lol:


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