# Bruce doesn't like to bask? (Bearded Dragon).



## SarahScales (Oct 6, 2012)

So after fiddling around with theromostats, lights, temp guns, heat mats and lamp clamps, I finally managed to get the heat gradient in my tank perfect. High thirties in the basking spot down to mid-high twenties in the cool end. Great right? This was before I even purchased Bruce and has been checked thoroughly since. 

I get Bruce home, he's been home for three weeks now. At first when he didn't spend much time basking, I just thought it was because he was shy of his new environment. However, it's been a few weeks now and he still prefers to just sit on his log in the cooler end of the tank (coloured up slightly). So I thought he may prefer the log to his rock, move the light fixture down to the log end and he shifts on back up to the opposite end. He just doesn't seem to like the high temperature. 

I also have an outdoor enclosure (to let him get real UV) which is half full sunlight and half full shade. He will spend about 20 minutes sitting in the full sun, turn bright yellow and then move into the shade and not go out to bask again.

P.S I took him to the South Penrith Reptile Vet on Friday to have him wormed and a check up, the vet said he was in good condition. I mentioned the issue but he just said my temperatures would be wrong. But they aren't... 

He also said that I shouldn't be handling him at all (Apparently Bearded Dragons should be treated like goldfish, look but don't touch) because it takes him away from his optimal basking temperature and he could get very sick. Is this true?

The only reason I am worried is, I want him to digest his food properly and if he isn't basking he cannot do that? Right?

Why doesn't my beardie like the heat?

Also, what SHOULD a beardies poop look like? Just so I know that everything is going alright in his bowels.

Sorry for all the newbie questions but I love my Bruce and I want to spend as many years with him as I possibly can, and that means getting his conditions perfect...


----------



## someday (Oct 6, 2012)

umm i dont own a beardie so i may be wrong but i wouldnt worry bout him not basking unless his not getting any heat at all aslong as he is warm enough to digest his food he should be fine maby you could try turning off the the thermostat and leaving the basking light on and see if he shifts over??


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 6, 2012)

basking temps would be better in the low 40's,...are you sure hes not basking while ur not home or something?


is his poo digested looking, or are you finding whole undigested bits on stuff in there?

is he eating well?

try taking everything out of the cool side, so all his furniture is on the basking side for a while, if theres nothing cosy to sleep under on the cold side it might encourage him to use the heat. (once hes using it you can furnish the cool end again)

handling really depends on age, i dont really handle hatchies since theyre really nervous, but by around 4-6 months they seem less skittish and stressed. by the time theyre adults they hang out on the lounge with us at night, sit on window sills all afternoon etc, one sits on my head for hours while in working!! in my experience beardies love being handled and hanging out with their pet humans


the occasional drop in temps when taking them out doesnt hurt them, no beardy spends all day every day in the hottest part of its tank, they cold side should be room temp anyway, so whats the difference if they get cool in or out of the tank. (as long as it doesnt seem stressed by it ofcourse)

beardy poo has a white part (urate), and a brown part (poo) if the food isnt digested properly you'll be able to see exactly what was eaten in the brown bit.


----------



## treeofgreen (Oct 6, 2012)

my beardies spend 80% of their time "near" the basking spot. They only really bask for short stints to charge up, then go go about their business. In the wild they dont sit in the sun all day.. they would burn. They do the same, charge up in the sun, they get their energy then go their thang. If you are providing him with the correct temps, he is eating etc, even the vet said he was fine. I really wouldnt worry.

Agree with Chris1, my beardies also seem to like attention. They will sometimes even come over and start to climb my arm when i go to get them out. Very chilled and seem very content to sit and watch tv.


----------



## dragonlover1 (Oct 6, 2012)

first question is what type of beardie do you have?most people don't realize there are 8 different types.
Easterns (pogona barbata) don't like to be as hot as centrals (pogona vitticeps) nor do pygmies (pogona henrylawsoni).
I agree with Chris1 and treeofgreen most beardies love to be handled,I handled my centrals from day 1 but my pygmies were very skittish (still are a bit nervous).My central would go to sleep on a shoulder or on your chest soaking up body heat.
next question do you have your light sitting on mesh?mesh cuts UV by up to 50%
I also think you need to up your temps to low-mid 40's
and that you should dump your thermo and use a timer
can you put up picture of your setup?that will show us better than words can


----------



## 007_lizards (Oct 6, 2012)

My two Pogona henrylawsoni (pygmy beardies) loved being handled and explore what they can, running around the place. After three weeks I think he should have gotten used to the cage setup. Also, do you have any other animals near his cage that might scare him so he doesn’t want to go to the hot end?
We had our temps around mid 30's, and for this species that was enough, as they do change to a lighter body colour. If your beardie prefers the cooler end of the cage, what I can think of is that maybe you should lower the temp a little bit and see how he reacts.
What do you feed him, because if he is only young he can only eat things around the size from eye to eye (aprrox., but maybe go to a smaller size because of his age).
As dragonlover1 said, a pic would help.


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm not keen to turn the temperatures up as he hates it in the high 30's as it is. 

Bruce is unknown age but he is fully matured perhaps on the older side.

And I'm positive he doesn't bask when I'm not home, I'm home almost every day. 

I don't think he's scared as he is very active in his cage , just up in the cool end. He zooms around all over the place, chases his crickets all afternoon

But I'm so glad to hear other people handle their bearded as I love having him out of a night with me.

I just realized in his previous home (before the person I got him from) he wouldn't have had adequate heating as he was a rescue, could it just be he is used to lower temperatures and needs time to adjust?


----------



## Grogshla (Oct 8, 2012)

dude dragons need their temps higher so they can digest food and grow properly. 
If you don't want to take our advice and turn the temps up then don't post on here and ask for help. 
I feel sorry for your dragon.


----------



## Justdragons (Oct 8, 2012)

he NEEDS his high basking spot and dragons dont need to bask all day. You have seen what he does with natural sun?? this is all a dragon needs. charge the core temp to what they need and then go about their day. he will go to the cool end if he has had enough basking.. what uv are you using??


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 8, 2012)

Grogshla said:


> dude dragons need their temps higher so they can digest food and grow properly.
> If you don't want to take our advice and turn the temps up then don't post on here and ask for help.
> I feel sorry for your dragon.



No need to be so aggressive, that was not warranted. I am obviously trying to work this situation out myself and implying that I would behave in any manner to endanger my animal is ridiculous. I have him in high temperatures, only 2-3 degrees lower than those suggested. However, my concern was his refusal to spend any time in said basking area. I have literally kept an eye on him all day and whilst he has been active, he has not once basked even after eating. 

If I brought up temperatures in the basking area, that would still not change the fact that he does not spend any time in that spot itself. How dare you say you feel sorry for my animal that I am obviously trying to take due care of.

- - - Updated - - -



justdragons said:


> he NEEDS his high basking spot and dragons dont need to bask all day. You have seen what he does with natural sun?? this is all a dragon needs. charge the core temp to what they need and then go about their day. he will go to the cool end if he has had enough basking.. what uv are you using??



I'm using the Reptisun 10 UVB fluro that I had flown in from the United States as we weren't able to purchase them here and I had read they are the best choice for captive reptiles. It has only been on for three weeks and he gets daily UVB from the sun as he spends 3-4 hours in the midday to afternoon sun.


----------



## Grogshla (Oct 8, 2012)

SarahScales said:


> No need to be so aggressive, that was not warranted. I am obviously trying to work this situation out myself and implying that I would behave in any manner to endanger my animal is ridiculous. I have him in high temperatures, only 2-3 degrees lower than those suggested. However, my concern was his refusal to spend any time in said basking area. I have literally kept an eye on him all day and whilst he has been active, he has not once basked even after eating.
> 
> If I brought up temperatures in the basking area, that would still not change the fact that he does not spend any time in that spot itself. How dare you say you feel sorry for my animal that I am obviously trying to take due care of.



mate. Dragons act by instinct. Your temps are not only a few degrees cooler they are much cooler (you stated he hates it in the high 30s) so it must be cooler than that which is a good 5-10 degrees minimum cooler than what they need. The proper temp should be 40-45, that way he can decide where he wants to be. If he feels that your light is not hot enough he will not bask. It is all about providing the closest possible temps to what he needs in the wild. Your setup is currently not correct. I am sorry if you think I am being aggressive I just felt sorry as you think you know what your dragon likes but in reality you are doing him more harm. I hope he starts to show more normal signs soon. Perhaps he is slow in coming out of brumation but once again this could be a heat issue also.


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 8, 2012)

Grogshla said:


> mate. Dragons act by instinct. Your temps are not only a few degrees cooler they are much cooler (you stated he hates it in the high 30s) so it must be cooler than that which is a good 5-10 degrees minimum cooler than what they need. The proper temp should be 40-45, that way he can decide where he wants to be. If he feels that your light is not hot enough he will not bask. It is all about providing the closest possible temps to what he needs in the wild. Your setup is currently not correct. I am sorry if you think I am being aggressive I just felt sorry as you think you know what your dragon likes but in reality you are doing him more harm. I hope he starts to show more normal signs soon. Perhaps he is slow in coming out of brumation but once again this could be a heat issue also.



Well that would have been a more sensible reply then simply implying I am an idiot and saying that you feel sorry for my pet. Bruce is my only dragon and is a very much beloved pet, I want to take the best possible care of him. By high thirties, I mean they are between 38-39 and during the middle of the day when my house heats up (as his cage backs onto a wall that takes full brunt of the sun) I am sure it may creep into the low forties, but he still doesn't bask.

Regardless of what he has been doing, I have kept his basking spot on all day in hopes he may use it. I am within 2-7 degrees (On your 40-45 degree proposal) at worst. 

In future I would be wary about responding in that manner again, this forum works as a support base for many of us who are new to reptiles. One could easily be put off asking for help if they are going to be attacked for trying to riddle out an issue. And if in future their reptile behaved unusually and nothing was said, it could come to a much worse off fate.


----------



## littlemay (Oct 8, 2012)

Grogshla said:


> Your temps are not only a few degrees cooler they are much cooler (you stated he hates it in the high 30s) so it must be cooler than that which is a good 5-10 degrees minimum cooler than what they need. The proper temp should be 40-45, that way he can decide where he wants to be. If he feels that your light is not hot enough he will not bask.



Is this true? If an animal required heat it seems odd they would stay away from the heat source completely simply because it wasn't quite the optimum temperature - i would think that if it wasn't warm enough they would be spending _all_ their time there trying to get as much heat as possible..? This is an honest question, I have never kept dragons so i'm not meaning to come off as confrontational, it just seems counter intuitive?


----------



## Grogshla (Oct 8, 2012)

Like it or not. You asked for help and help was offered. You chose to ignore it. 
End of discussion.


----------



## Snowman (Oct 8, 2012)

SarahScales said:


> In future I would be wary about responding in that manner again, this forum works as a support base for many of us who are new to reptiles. One could easily be put off asking for help if they are going to be attacked for trying to riddle out an issue. And if in future their reptile behaved unusually and nothing was said, it could come to a much worse off fate.



I think your reading too much into the "agressive" nature of peoples posts Sarah. If you dont like it, just ignore it and move on. You can even select not to have certain peoples posts come up if you dont like them. I'm always blunt and to the point myself. After being here for a few years it can become a bit frustrating when the newer members ask for advice then refuse to take the advice given. I think this leads to the gruff nature of some of our burly members  You cant control what people do and say, but you can control what you let get to you. 
I have to disagree with people being put off asking for help. There are more questions here each day, some the same that were asked the day before, certainly more new members asking questions than there were when I started on here back in 2009. I think the site has got more friendly since then too.... 
Anyways, I dont know anything about dragons... But I do know that you need to just ignore anything that you personally find agressive  Like with anything, you have to sift through the advice and work out what is relavent to you. Advice can be good and bad. There is nothing to stop someone who doesnt even keep dragons giving you advice. Use the search functions and google and research, research, research. Then you can weigh peoples advice against the knowledge you have obtained and also what seems like comon sense to you.
Good luck with everything!


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 8, 2012)

littlemay said:


> Is this true? If an animal required heat it seems odd they would stay away from the heat source completely simply because it wasn't quite the optimum temperature - i would think that if it wasn't warm enough they would be spending _all_ their time there trying to get as much heat as possible..? This is an honest question, I have never kept dragons so i'm not meaning to come off as confrontational, it just seems counter intuitive?



This was my thoughts and I was wondering why my bearded dragon was avoiding the heat source all together. Regardless of if I put the temperatures up, he still won't be benefiting as he is not spending time beneath it, rather specifically avoiding it. 

I genuinely am seeking advice on this matter but 'Put the heat up' isn't relevant and I was trying to gain further information.

- - - Updated - - -



Snowman said:


> I think your reading too much into the "agressive" nature of peoples posts Sarah. If you dont like it, just ignore it and move on. You can even select not to have certain peoples posts come up if you dont like them. I'm always blunt and to the point myself. After being here for a few years it can become a bit frustrating when the newer members ask for advice then refuse to take the advice givin. I think this leads to the gruff nature of some of our burly members  You cant control what people do and say, but you can control what you let get to you.
> I have to disagree with people being put off asking for help. There are more questions here each day, some the same that were asked the day before, certainly more new members asking questions than there were when I started on here back in 2009. I think the site has got more friendly since then too....
> Anyways, I dont know anything about dragons... But I do know that you need to just ignore anything that you personally find agressive  Like with anything, you have to sift through the advice and work out what is relavent to you. Advice can be good and bad. There is nothing to stop someone who doesnt even keep dragons giving you advice. Use the search functions and google and research, research, research. Then you can weigh peoples advice against the knowledge you have obtained and also what seems like comon sense to you.
> Good luck with everything!



Thank you for your response Snowman and thankfully I am able to simply look over the needlessly 'gruff' nature of some of the replies. However, young members especially could well be put off. Other issues I have found to be common ones, i.e lack of appetite when shedding and I found my answer without starting a thread. But a bearded dragon specifically avoiding his basking lamp and hovering only in the cooler end of his enclosure was something I had not found through google or a thread search so I put it to the vast experience of the members here. I have the utmost respect of those who spend their time here helping out fellow herp keepers, which is why I put so much faith in your answers.


----------



## crocodile_dan (Oct 8, 2012)

Disclaimer: This comment is not in support of the OP nor is it disagreeing with other members advice, however SarahScales raised an interesting question that wasn't addressed and may be interesting for some people.



SarahScales said:


> I just realized in his previous home (before the person I got him from) he wouldn't have had adequate heating as he was a rescue, could it just be he is used to lower temperatures and needs time to adjust?



There is an ecophysiology principle known as phenotypic plasticity, for direct relation to this topic there is thermal phenotypic plasticity, for further study look at journal articles discussing climate change (global warming) and organisms ability (or lack of) to adapt. Where an organism exposed to long term temperature change can shift their temperature dependent performance curve. This shifting of the curve highlights thermal plasticity with changing temperatures to optimize performance at the environmental temperature. This is called thermal acclimation when it occurs naturally (it is called thermal acclimatization when it is induced under experimental conditions). So hypothetically it is not unjustified to assume under a controlled situation there is the possibility to acclimate a bearded dragon to a new optimum performance temperature of 32 degrees celcius if one person so desired, however unlikely.

Again this is not what I think is occurring here, it was just a point of interest that had some validity. Please don't use this information to rationalize the behaviour your seeing from your bearded dragon, take the advice previously given.


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 8, 2012)

crocodile_dan said:


> Disclaimer: This comment is not in support of the OP nor is it disagreeing with other members advice, however SarahScales raised an interesting question that wasn't addressed and may be interesting for some people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting principle, I was unaware of it so scientifically. All I thought about was when I went on holidays to the Pacific Islands for a month, I got acclimatised to the heavy, sweaty heat. When I came back, I felt cold all of the time and my skin dried out, it was a few weeks until I was feeling normal again. I figured because Bruce has not lived with artificial heating or basking spots before it could feel very hot to him for a little while until he adjusts to the new temperatures.


----------



## crocodile_dan (Oct 8, 2012)

I was just providing information on the principle as a general topic not specifically to this scenario. I don't believe it is the likely reason for your beardies activity, I just thought it was useful information that may be applicable to other less specific situations.


----------



## Snowman (Oct 8, 2012)

I'd suggest putting a picture up of your enclosure. How are you measuring the hot spot?


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 8, 2012)

Snowman said:


> I'd suggest putting a picture up of your enclosure. How are you measuring the hot spot?



Ill post a pic in the morning when there is a bit more light. I am measuring the hotspot with a thermostat and a temp gun.


----------



## SarahScales (Oct 17, 2012)

Just an update for anyone that was interested:

I dropped the temperatures down in his basking spot down to low thirties for a few days and he has actually started to bask now. I have been gradually bringing up the temperature by a degree or two with my thermostat and he has continued using his basking spot. I'm going to slowly bring it up until it is in the forties and see how we go.


----------

