# Lace Monitor with MBD. (graphic)



## RSPcrazy (Sep 2, 2011)

G'day everyone,

I have shown my Lace Monitor with "Metabolic Bone Disease" on some other forums and I thought it was time I showed it to everyone here.

I bought a Lace Monitor back in October 2010 (she was 7 months old then). She got a big burn on her back 2 days before I picked her up, but that wasnt a big deal for me, as I was buying her for her amazing temperament (which is still amazing today). When I picked her up, the owner talked me through how hes been keeping and feeding her. Her enclosure was a wardrobe decked out with big branches and mesh doors, her diet was lots of chicken breast from the supermarket cut into strips and 1 mouse every 2 weeks. 

Later that night and realized she was "shaking" and looked very unable to move properly, which was very confusing for me, because when I got her, she was strong and could move fine. I figured it was stress from the hour long drive when she regurgitated, so I left her till the morning. The next morning she was still "shaking" and had regurgitated again, but the main problem was, she had "BENT" her snout down from pushing on the glass doors all night. This is when I booked her into the reptile vet, which almost didnt happen because they were booked out for a couple of days, but they made a spot for me because of how bad it sounded.

The reptile vet had a look at her and told me she had "Metabolic Bone Disease" and according to there records, there hasn't been a Lace Monitor to ever have this disease before (her bones were like rubber and bent all over the place). We talked for a while and had some x-rays done, he (along with some forum people, eg. crocdoc) informed me the MBD was caused by the previous owner feeding her nothing but supermarket chicken breast, instead of hole small animals. The vet told me to give her oral injections of calcium morning and night everyday for around about a year, plus oral food injections every sencond day (because she couldnt eat on her own) and I would have to bring her back from time to time, to see how she was going and get another x-ray. 

Jumping forwards 11 months, her bones have almost fully recovered, she is now eating fuzzie rats, but I have to force the head of the rat past the bend in her jaw first. The vet has no doubt she will be eating on her own within 6 months, she also had some fractures in her upper ribs that have healed, she is just left with some deformed ribs, joints, snout and a couple of kinks here and there. She still has the most amazing, placid temperament. I can hold her, pat her, I even let her walk around outside on her own with nothing to stop her from running away.

Well I think its time you all saw some pictures of what can happen if you dont feed your reptiles the proper food.

















And the x-rays.
1st. Notice how dull the bones are, there's very little calcium there. Also she is a bit bloated. She has deformed elbow joints, kinks in her tail, fractures in her upper ribs, her snout is bent down and to top it all off, she has broken her little toe.




2nd. I was giving her calcium injections twice a day for, I think? 3 months before getting this X-ray. Notice how bright the bones are. This is how they should look. She is also still very bloated.




3rd. 6 months since last X-ray. The bloating is now gone and her stomach is at the size it should be. She will always have the kinks, deformed elbow joints, deformed upper ribs and bent snout.




4th. 1 month since last X-ray. Side view of head. First of all, LOOK AT THOUGHS TEETH! I'm glad she can't bite



Now notice the jaw bends like a boomerang, but when she opens her mouth, it bends the other way. Her whole head should be strait.





I am still amazed that this much damage was caused by simply feeding the wrong foods. Don't be cheap when it comes to the health of your reptiles, feed them properly.


----------



## JasonL (Sep 2, 2011)

Thats no good at all, though it isn't the first one I have seen. Any Lizard will get MBD if not fed calcium in some form, and meat only diets are bad, bad, bad.....


----------



## clipo38 (Sep 2, 2011)

wow!!
what were u feeding her?


----------



## CrystalMoon (Sep 2, 2011)

Moved to tears here.... So glad she came to you, well done with her.....
Crystal


----------



## JasonL (Sep 2, 2011)

Btw, her calm temperament probably has a lot to do with her health issues, had she been bought up healthy and strong she may of been a very different animal.


----------



## Nighthawk (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm glad the poor girl's in good hands. It's nice to know there are people out there with the patience to take care of animals who really need it.
Thank you for the warning.


----------



## blakehose (Sep 2, 2011)

Whole food items!! I really do get tired of people asking which mince & cat or dog foods are the best. Because the answer is none of them. Great photos though showing the progress, poor bugger.


----------



## starr9 (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh my god! I cant stop crying! I am SO glad she is with you now!


----------



## RickLeekong (Sep 2, 2011)

this reallly upset me, thank goodness shes getting better.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 2, 2011)

JasonL said:


> Btw, her calm temperament probably has a lot to do with her health issues, had she been bought up healthy and strong she may of been a very different animal.



Ya sorry, I forgot to mention that part, that's exactly what happened.



JasonL said:


> Thats no good at all, though it isn't the first one I have seen. Any Lizard will get MBD if not fed calcium in some form, and meat only diets are bad, bad, bad.....




You've seen another Lace Monitor with MBD? Did it have any deformities?



clipo38 said:


> wow!!
> what were u feeding her?



The vet gave me some mushy food, made for sick cats and dogs called a/d. It had all the vitamins that the lacie needed in her sick stage. I had to mix it up with water, freeze it in ice cube trays and when needed defrost it, suck it up with a syringe and inject it orally.


----------



## Snake-Supplies (Sep 2, 2011)

That just put's a downer on my friday....


----------



## eitak (Sep 2, 2011)

As horrible as her lack of care was (prior to you) her nose deformity is kinda cute, you should name her gonzo  

By the way i'm not saying in anyway its a good thing, I understand its terrible that she was so sick but she's in good hands now obviously!!!


----------



## Chris (Sep 2, 2011)

The poor animal, very sad. Kudos to you for your part, well done.


----------



## Reptile_Maniac (Sep 2, 2011)

Poor thing!


----------



## abnrmal91 (Sep 2, 2011)

It's a sad story but congrats on doing such a great job of caring for a very sick animal.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 2, 2011)

Not even for a second, have I ever thought I got ripped off in buying this lacie, even though she's cost me so much time and money in vet bills, because if I didn't get her, she would probably be dead. She is the most interesting and interactive reptile I have and I wouldn't get rid of her for anything.


----------



## Skyyy (Sep 2, 2011)

Good on you for taking care of her, shes beautiful.


----------



## feathergrass (Sep 2, 2011)

pooe wee girl she is beautiful and i am glad shes found someone to love and take care of her..you have done an amazing job!


----------



## nagini-baby (Sep 2, 2011)

you should be proud of your self. really really proud...


----------



## FAY (Sep 2, 2011)

RSP are they the pics of her today? Or when you first got her?

If they are today's pics..omg...would of hated to see what she was like then...I cannot believe that someone has let that happen to an animal. Thanks heavens for you.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 2, 2011)

FAY said:


> RSP are they the pics of her today? Or when you first got her?
> 
> If they are today's pics..omg...would of hated to see what she was like then...I cannot believe that someone has let that happen to an animal. Thanks heavens for you.



The 1st pic is one of the earliest ones (her jaw doesn't bend like that anymore, it still bends, but not like that), the 4th pic is from a couple of weeks ago (same time as the last x-ray).


----------



## Bel03 (Sep 3, 2011)

Wow, u learn something new everyday! (i have never looked into lizards/monitors etc so i was very interested to see this) This is a really great story, though very sad, good on u for 'getting the word out' for those that could be making the same mistakes as ur girls last owner! Even with her deformaties, she is beautiful! How sad that she had to go through all this though, & as everyone else has said, good on u for taking her in & giving her the treatment she needs!


----------



## mad_at_arms (Sep 3, 2011)

Those pictures made me feel ill.
You are a very good person for what you have done.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 3, 2011)

Thank you everybody, for the kind words, it means a lot. I just wanted to give this lacie the life she deserves. What I'm trying to do now, is share her with the whole reptile hobby, so that people can see with there own eyes, what can easily happen if you get cheap or lazy with something as simple (but important) as the right diet.


----------



## gardinator (Sep 3, 2011)

man u have done such a amzing thing for her shes such a beautiful reptile and its good to know shes now in good hands, seriously really good job mate !!


----------



## SamNabz (Sep 3, 2011)

Never get tired of seeing this story and how much you have helped this poor lacie, RSP; you are truly one-of-a-kind mate, as most people would have either offloaded it to the next person or put it in the freezer.

Job very well done mate.


----------



## Mr.James (Sep 22, 2011)

Any updated pics of the lacey?


----------



## hissnbits (Sep 22, 2011)

feeding chicken breasts from the supermarket - sounds like the previous owner was misguided. I would hope they are educated so dont do wrong again, or dont own other reptiles. This poor monitor sounds like teh result of an owner not being equiped with teh right knowledge, and I hope was not doing what was just convienient for them.

Thank you for posting what can happen with incorrect husbandry. Is good to see your efforts where many would have given up. Well done!!


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 22, 2011)

Mr.Boyd said:


> Any updated pics of the lacey?



I'll get some soon.


----------



## Scleropages (Sep 22, 2011)

How awesome you have looked after her.. Most people would of just put her down.


----------



## Serpentess (Sep 22, 2011)

My gosh... First time seeing this thread. I just felt immense sadness when I looked at those photos. That poor little lacie! I'm relieved to hear she is getting the help, attention and diet that she so badly needs. 

I'm sure that all lacie and reptile lovers around the world applaud you for your time and efforts.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Sep 22, 2011)

hissnbits said:


> feeding chicken breasts from the supermarket - sounds like the previous owner was misguided. I would hope they are educated so dont do wrong again, or dont own other reptiles. This poor monitor sounds like teh result of an owner not being equiped with teh right knowledge, and I hope was not doing what was just convienient for them.
> 
> Thank you for posting what can happen with incorrect husbandry. Is good to see your efforts where many would have given up. Well done!!



The previous owner met with David Kirshner and David gave him all the info he needed to keep a monitor health and happy. But he ignored everything David told him, beleaving he knew what was best and because of the reaction this lacie was giving towards the chicken breast, his words were "it loves it" so he stuck with the chicken breast.


----------



## Chris1 (Sep 22, 2011)

when i see things like this (and the snake with ciggy burns on its head and all over its body) i fully understand people saying reptiles shouldnt be in captivity. 

i saw this on a diff forum when u first posted it,...good on you for helping the poor thing out so much.

still makes me sad tho,....that it should have ended up in such poor condition in the first place.

sorry, but the MBD is soooo obvious, even if teh previous owner was potentially misguided (which he wasnt by the sounds) that animal should have been at the vets long before it became so deformed. Sadly, im sure there are plenty more fed on a cheap, bad diet.


----------



## crocdoc (Sep 23, 2011)

hissnbits said:


> I would hope they are educated so dont do wrong again, or dont own other reptiles. This poor monitor sounds like teh result of an owner not being equiped with teh right knowledge, and I hope was not doing what was just convienient for them.


Unfortunately, as has been mentioned (thanks Brendan), this was not the case. I saw the animal in this thread, when it was young and still owned by the previous owner, as he brought it over for me to have a look at. The first sign of trouble was when he said 'it handles well' and it was only of hatchling size, yet had hatched the previous year. I gave him a really detailed care sheet, told him to only feed it small whole animals, suggested a number of improvements necessary for his enclosure, particularly warning that having a wire mesh enclosure indoors is a really bad idea (it leads to skin burns).

After all that, he figured he knew better and did things his way, regardless. On top of that, even after he sold that monitor and Brendan (RSPcrazy) posted photos of it here in its current state, the original owner contacted me because he was upset I was speaking ill of him as he refused to admit the monitor's poor health was his fault. My favourite bit was when he kept telling me that he didn't just give it just _any_ chicken meat, but only the 'best' chicken breast available in Woollies' meat department. 

It gets worse. He contacted me again a few months ago, telling me he wanted to get back into keeping monitors and asking if I had any to sell. You can guess my reply (I can't repeat it here, for the profanities would get the post removed). I don't think he should ever keep reptiles again and pretty much told him that, in more colourful language. He then said he'd learned his lesson, had realised his mistake and it didn't matter if I refused to sell him one because he was going to get a monitor from someone else anyway. I then said if that were the case, could he please send me photos of his 'new and improved' enclosure so at very least I could give him advice to make sure he didn't repeat his mistakes. He was really happy I suggested this and said he'd send me images right away.

Still waiting for those photos, of course.


----------



## mysnakesau (Oct 15, 2011)

OMG, I missed this thread. David just mentioned it to me when I wrote in my thread that I bought roo steaks for my patient. How is your fella doing now RSP. I hope he is coming good. Poor fella  Those photos broke my heart. So sad to see animals suffer like that, specially to read further on that this guy was told to change what he was feeding him, and still didn't heed the advice. I am not going to let that happen to Ricky, thats for sure.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Oct 15, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> OMG, I missed this thread. David just mentioned it to me when I wrote in my thread that I bought roo steaks for my patient. How is your fella doing now RSP. I hope he is coming good. Poor fella  Those photos broke my heart. So sad to see animals suffer like that, specially to read further on that this guy was told to change what he was feeding him, and still didn't heed the advice. I am not going to let that happen to Ricky, thats for sure.



She is going really well actually, she acts like a almost normal lacie now (exept she is very easy to interact with, she's got the most amazing temperament). She can fully open her mouth now, without her jaw bending like crazy, and she's got the appetite of ten pigs (I still have to help her get part of the food behind the bend in her jaw though). 
She is also finally starting to shed properly. Because of the burn, her shed has been getting stuck and I've been having to bath her heaps to trying and get the shed off.

It has been the best experience bringing this monitor back to health, alot of people told me to put her down, but I beleaved she would come good and she is almost there, the vet even told me, I could probably breed from her later, because the MBD didn't affect that area of her. Just for the record, I will NEVER be breeding her.

mysnakesau, I have been following your patient (Ricky), it is a good thing you're doing, I really hope he pulls through. As David said already in the other thread, even though you may only have him for a short time, making sure he has the right diet during recovery, could make a big difference. Good luck with him.


----------



## kawasakirider (Oct 15, 2011)

Heartwarming story. Good on ya, mate. Post up some current pics if you can.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Nov 25, 2011)

I was having a play with Lacy tonight, and decided to take a couple of photos of her in a good mood, having a climb and examining my arm.



























She's come a long way, from barely being able to walk, to this


----------



## mysnakesau (Nov 25, 2011)

Wow, she is looking much better. What a beautiful lizard, and how good of you to take her in like that. I wish my fella would sit on my arm but he just wants to chew my fingers off. Maybe oneday...  Well done, to both of you.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Nov 25, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> Wow, she is looking much better. What a beautiful lizard, and how good of you to take her in like that. I wish my fella would sit on my arm but he just wants to chew my fingers off. Maybe oneday...  Well done, to both of you.



Well lucky for me, Lacy can't bite properly. So all I've got to watch for, are thoughs massive, extremely sharp claws


----------



## Pado2087 (Nov 25, 2011)

Poor thing i wish people knew how to treat reptiles instead of buying them and not treating them well


----------



## Rhaenys (Nov 25, 2011)

Poor little girl.  That was heartbreaking.
She looks so much better now though  
I hope one day I can do a good deed like that and completely turn around the life of an animal in need!
You're amazing, I hope a lot of good karma comes your way ^_^


----------



## imported_Varanus (Nov 25, 2011)

Excellent work RSP, I hope she continues to improve for you. They never cease to amaze, what a little trooper!



felidae said:


> I hope one day I can do a good deed like that and completely turn around the life of an animal in need!



You can always join your local wildlife carers group!


----------



## IgotFrogs (Nov 25, 2011)

Oh gosh i had missed this thread till just now brought tears to my eyes ..... to think someone could put anything through that is beyond me I'm so glad you have her in a loving home now .... all i can say is given what shes been through she was meant to come to you as a lot wouldn't have invested the time and effort into bringing her back to health let alone the cost ... for this little girl you are a saint! ..... i wish you and her all the best in this life time together !!


----------



## Nayla (Nov 25, 2011)

What a fantastic job you have done and are doing. She is absolutely adorable and what a transformation with some proper care. You should be very proud.


----------



## snakelady96 (Nov 25, 2011)

Poor thing!  I think everyone who read this is in tears, you are an angel thank god she is with you now.


----------



## Khagan (Nov 25, 2011)

Wow can't believe i didn't see this thread till now.. Amazing work you've done there RSP, good to see some people still have a heart.


----------



## Reptilefreak95 (Nov 25, 2011)

absolutey 100% whole hearted, kind amount of effort, i admire that, you have done an amazingly good thing, and drastically improved her quality of life. I think i speak for everybody when i say it would be nice to see some photos of her progress at this time?

whoops. didnt read the other pages :L she HAS come a very long way from what she was, do u know if there is any way of correcting her snout?


----------



## Renenet (Nov 25, 2011)

I missed this thread the first time around. Poor lizard. I honestly don't get how anyone could let another creature end up in this condition - it would have been clear something was wrong well before that.

Well done for taking her on and bringing her back to health. It sounds like you've now got a great little scaley friend for your troubles. Please keep us updated on her progress.


----------



## Dave1gsxr (Nov 25, 2011)

2 thumbs up for a stellar effort in the rehab of this little girl. Love stories like this. Really hope that the previous owner doesn't get a chance to do what he did to another animal.


----------



## Bandit05 (Nov 25, 2011)

WOW she looks so much better now..Congratulations on all your efforts...She really has the sweetest eyes...Unfortunately there are far too many people out there who want to own an animal but cant be bothered to take proper care of it, or say its too expensive to care for them the right way..The amount of snakes I see for sale that eat chicken wings/necks or that live in wire mesh cages makes me cringe...Thanks for sharing your story


----------



## RSPcrazy (Nov 26, 2011)

Reptilefreak95 said:


> absolutey 100% whole hearted, kind amount of effort, i admire that, you have done an amazingly good thing, and drastically improved her quality of life. I think i speak for everybody when i say it would be nice to see some photos of her progress at this time?
> 
> whoops. didnt read the other pages :L she HAS come a very long way from what she was, do u know if there is any way of correcting her snout?



At this stage, her snout has hardened to much to try and correct it, unless she gets a bad case of MBD again and gets a braise made (not going to happen), or undergoes major surgery (to expensive and to stressful for her). 

But she's going grate as she is, she's gotten used to where her snout sits now, so there's no need to try and fix it.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Nov 26, 2011)

That is indeed a sad case and i think you have achieved an excellent outcome given the starting condition of the animal. Take a well deserved bow!

The lower jaw is often one of the areas where MBD shows up for two reasons. Firstly it is a particularly solid bone structure in the skeleton and so ends up relatively worse off than other bones when calcium is mobilised and withdrawn from the skeleton. Secondly, it is subject to very large mechanical stress during eating.

*The Causes of MBD*
A proper understanding of what MBD is and what causes it can avoid happenings like this. 

Calcium is a major constituent of bone and gives it strength. Calcium is also also probably the most important mineral in the body, being involved in nearly all the main metabolic processes of living things. Because calcium is so crucial to so many essential metabolic processes to maintain life, it is absolutely essential to maintain the required level of calcium in the body fluids.

A certain amount of calcium is lost from the body through excretion on a continuous basis. This, unfortunately, is unavoidable, but is not a problem where normal calcium uptake from the diet occurs. When insufficient calcium is absorbed from the diet, the body will release calcium stored in bone to ensure the levels in the body fluids are sufficient to allow normal metabolic processes to occur. On an on-going basis, with no replacement of calcium from the diet, this will result in metabolic bone disease.

The absorption of calcium from food requires Vitamin D3. The active form of this vitamin allows the body to absorb any calcium available from the gut (digested food) and for the body to incorporate it into building bones. UVB light can cause many vertebrates, reptiles included, to produce inactive D3 in the skin. This is then stored in their liver until required. So animals that normally consume whole vertebrates, like monitors do, are geared to obtaining their necessary Vitamin D3 from the livers of these animals. A diet devoid of livers in such animals, cannot take up calcium, no matter how much is present in the food.

Hope that helps with the understanding.

Blue


----------



## Jk888 (Nov 26, 2011)

i actuly feel sick now..


----------



## mysnakesau (Nov 26, 2011)

Well you shouldn't jk. Yes it is sad that you can see what that animal has been through, but its even clearer now, that she is doing well. If it isn't effecting her ability to survive, or her quality of life, then to see her like she is now thrilling. The work RSP has done has paid off big time for this girl. She might not be out of the woods yet, but she certainly doesn't appear to be going backwards.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Nov 26, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> That is indeed a sad case and i think you have achieved an excellent outcome given the starting condition of the animal. Take a well deserved bow!
> 
> The lower jaw is often one of the areas where MBD shows up for two reasons. Firstly it is a particularly solid bone structure in the skeleton and so ends up relatively worse off than other bones when calcium is mobilised and withdrawn from the skeleton. Secondly, it is subject to very large mechanical stress during eating.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting this, it gives me a much better understanding of how it all works now.


----------



## RSPcrazy (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm so happy right now  Lacy just ate on her own for the first time!!! Completely unassisted.

Well, it was only a couple of pinkie mice, but she keeps dropping everything else.


----------

