# celebrity dolphin protest



## KWKW (Nov 2, 2007)

How can the Japanese be doing this in this day and age!

Watching this video makes me want to do anything to stop these Japanese killing our marine life as its not theres cos its in there waters.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=313615

quite graphic


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## Retic (Nov 2, 2007)

I do agree I think it's barbaric in this day and age BUT this small group of villagers have been doing the same thing for 100's of years. To me it's no different to Aboriginals killing Dugongs and turtles, there was a link posted on here in another thread which detailed how these animals were killed and it isn't good reading. Look also at the outrage overseas to the mass slaughter of kangaroos but we see people here telling them to mind their own business. 
Like I said I think it is barbaric but as they say let he among us who is without sin cast the first stone.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 2, 2007)

theres no excuse for making animals suffer so badly in this day and age


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## KWKW (Nov 2, 2007)

Yes i understand! 

But Aboriginals killing Dugongs and turtles are for them to eat themselfs (tribe) and they only kill what they need where as the japanese dolphin cull is for the markets. if they the japanese where only allowed to kill what they themselfs can consume the number being culled would be 1/10 if not less. but thats the way i see it.


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## Veredus (Nov 2, 2007)

The difference between a Dolphin and a Kangaroo is a massive gap of intelligence, aside from the fact that we dont allow kangaroos to drown in their own blood but rather shoot them in the head.


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## Retic (Nov 2, 2007)

Yes I agree, I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, my personal feeling that in this day and age it is wrong to kill these animals because it is traditional.


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## JoandDrew (Nov 2, 2007)

Any killing of any animal, that is done inhumanly is wrong. We have laws on how animals slaugtered for meat, must be treated, and there should be the same laws in all countries. The problem being, that dolpins are trainable, and likeable and harmless and animals like that, are more likely to have people trying to stop the killing of them. Animals that can be percieved as harmful, not so cute, or untrainable, arent cared about so much. We protest waling, killing of dolpins and turtles, but only a small group worry about our beautiful sharks. Arent they all equal? And then you have the history factor, when I was in Alaska a couple of years ago, I saw a seal with a spear sticking out of its head and still alive, the eskimo can still hunt, seals and whales because they have done for hundeds of years. but they must use original weapons, like spears. Im not sure if this is humane, but they think it gives the seal a better chance to escape than using a gun. Maybe if we took away the boats and modern netting, and gave them the tools of hundreds of years ago, it would be different. they couldnt cull that many. Surely when the practise started hundreds of years ago, they only took what they could eat. Why not apply the same rules to the dolpin catchers, a row boat, and spears, no motors, no nets. I would love to see it stopped altogether, and refuse to go to Japan, until the whaleing and dolphin killing stops, maybe if it effects their economy, because tourism stops something might be done. Vote with your feet, visit another country.


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

They have been doing it for 1000s of years, so they don't really understand why all of a sudden it's a big deal. It'd be similair to people going into remote Aboriginal communities and protesting that they eat Olive pythons or something. It's what their culture has done for a veyr very long time and all of a sudden, the West says it's bad. What do you think they'd do?

These protesters annoy me... A dolphins life is worth no more to me than a cows life. People shouldn't be able to decide what is allowed to live and what's allowed to die. As long as they don't severely reduce the population of dolphins (i.e. as long as it is a sustainable practice) I don't mind one bit.

A number of people have said they're 'more intelligent' and 'more likeable' than other animals and so deserve to live... What the hell?! So if something isn't as smart as something else that means it deserves to die more? Come off it. Killing stuff for food is never pretty, but it is necessary. And yes, they _could_ get by without eating dolphin... But _I_ could get by without eating steak.. And that's just not going to happen.


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## HoffOff (Nov 2, 2007)

As long as it doesn't Make them Endangered Species I'm fine with it


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## Veredus (Nov 2, 2007)

Phil, if I were to kill your cousin or your child to eat and claim it was sustainable practice because there are plenty of other people around I don't think you would be too happy. The argument many protesters against dolphin slaughter have is that they have an intelligence level comparable to our own and it unacceptable to kill a human in todays society based n our intelligence level, therefore by that logic the same should be said for a dolphin. 



> Recent research has shown that dolphins are capable of comprehending numerical values. In an experiment where a dolphin was shown two panels with a various number of dots of different size and position, the dolphin was able to touch the panel with a greater number of dots, much more rapidly than many human beings could do.


 
Surely this level of intelligence places this remarkable creature high above a cow, and the fact that they do not wage ravishing wars across the world nor destroy their environment for furthering their own selfish purposes places them above us in the importance of life forms. In an educated world there is no excuse for murdering such an intelligent creature that we have so much to learn from. 

I am not arguing that other animals deserve to feel the pain they do at the slaughter....even the least intelligent of animals should be protected from undue harm, but simply arguing that by our logic of protecting humans and their rights to their tradition that it is completely immoral and should not be allowed to slaughter an animal capable of cognitive and logical judgements and the formation of cultural groups and traditions.


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## serenaphoenix (Nov 2, 2007)

i think i'm going to vomit.....


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## lazybuddha (Nov 2, 2007)

Veredus said:


> Surely this level of intelligence places this remarkable creature high above a cow, and the fact that they do not wage ravishing wars across the world nor destroy their environment for furthering their own selfish purposes places them above us in the importance of life forms.


so because they dont have the ability to wage wars means they are higher than us in importance? that just sounds ludicrous


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## KWKW (Nov 2, 2007)

As long as they don't severely reduce the population of dolphins (i.e. as long as it is a sustainable practice) Quote

But thats the problem its not sustainable practice in asian countrys thats why there fishing out our waters too.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/12/061214-dolphin-extinct.html


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## KWKW (Nov 2, 2007)

read the above link about chinas native dolphin now extinct

It comes down to education as well but there populations so large they cant get the message across!


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## pugsly (Nov 2, 2007)

Its an unfortunate part of society..

Look at the Canadians who slaughter the seal cubs...


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## Colin (Nov 2, 2007)

Veredus said:


> Surely this level of intelligence places this remarkable creature high above a cow, and the fact that they do not wage ravishing wars .



Flipper used to wage wars on the poachers in Coral Key Park and Marine Preserve


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## bump73 (Nov 2, 2007)

Colin said:


> Flipper used to wage wars on the poachers in Coral Key Park and Marine Preserve


 
And if for some reason we went to war against america, dolphins could be the enemy as i'm sure the navy have trained ones they use :lol:


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

Veredus said:


> Phil, if I were to kill your cousin or your child to eat and claim it was sustainable practice because there are plenty of other people around I don't think you would be too happy. The argument many protesters against dolphin slaughter have is that they have an intelligence level comparable to our own and it unacceptable to kill a human in todays society based n our intelligence level, therefore by that logic the same should be said for a dolphin.


 
Dolphins aren't people. Period. We don't eat people because that is cannibalism, illegal, and they are people. Animals aren't people. People are better than animals. Evolution.

.. Referring to later in the post do you honestly think they are 'higher' life forms than us because they don't ruin their environment and have wars? ...If so, and given the chance between a dolphin being killed and a human being killed you would choose the human..? That's pretty messed up.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 2, 2007)

dude why spew hate on animals for?

now go cuddle your pet python


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## Dodie (Nov 2, 2007)

PhilK said:


> These protesters annoy me... A dolphins life is worth no more to me than a cows life. People shouldn't be able to decide what is allowed to live and what's allowed to die. As long as they don't severely reduce the population of dolphins (i.e. as long as it is a sustainable practice) I don't mind one bit.


 
Couldn't agree more.

Re: clubbing baby seals, So many people protested about it, then they passed a law that they can't club baby seals but can kill the adults.

Now to get the same amount of money from the adults they have to kill twice as many as the adult fur is too old. 

Food for thought


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

Thanks abbott. I don't hate animals, in case people think it sounds like it (I'm studying to be a vet - how much can I really hate them?)

I'm just being realistic here. I hate the fact that as soon as an animal is clever, or cute, or interesting it becomes taboo to kill it for food.

If the dolphin population is in serious danger of dying out, then I agree, stop the dolphin killing. But if they can deal with losing the amount they are losing and not be adversely affected, throw me a dolphin burger.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 2, 2007)

its not the actual killing for food thats the prob,its the cruelty in the way its done
thats what most people are disturbed by

animals do matter ,if they didnt well no one would join a forum like this one
devoted to a group of animals


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

They matter, but we can still eat them

Like I said earlier, killing things is never pretty. Knowing the media, they've sensationalised this beyond the moon. What could be easier than a media story on how the Japanese kill dolphins cruelly?

To me it looked like they hoisted them out of the water and off'd them..

As for cruelly killing, the amount of fish I've dragged out of the water via a metal hook impaled in their face is pretty high. But I'm not about to stop fishing. Unless fish became endangered


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## cement (Nov 2, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Dolphins aren't people. Period. We don't eat people because that is cannibalism, illegal, and they are people. Animals aren't people. People are better than animals. Evolution.
> 
> .. There are plenty of tribes out there ,Say Papua, who were cannibals not that long ago. It wasn't illegal to them, If they started eating people again, it could very well be argued that it is sustainable.
> 
> ...


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## Oskorei (Nov 2, 2007)

not many people here has seen sheep being slaughtered have they?

held and their throats ripped open with a knife and bleed, cows get a bolt in the head to knock them out and then their throats slashed. pigs gased with CO2 the their throats slashed. chickens stuck upside down in a cone so the blood rushes to their heads then the throat is slashed.

so get over it! its the way of the world

also 

"The eco-friendly stunt ended in a violent confrontation at sea with Japanese fisherman taking part in the annual dolphin cull."

notice is says ANNUAL as in ONCE A YEAR!

and from what i seen in the clip its nothing more then your avarage fisherman does... in fact its more humane. fisherman usually just let their fish suffercate in a bucket so Harden Up!


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

cement said:


> You seriously think your life is more valuable than an animals. Hah, maybe in your eyes, definatly not in the animals.


Of course I think my life is more important than an animal's! You're trying to tell me you don't think _yours_ is? Somehow I think that if someone was to say "you have a choice cement.. We either kill you, or we kill this dolphin" you'd choose the dolphin. Humans are higher than animals.. I don't get how people can argue that?! No way would you put yourself before an animal if it came to that. No way, no how.

Oskorei.. slaughter isn't that bad. We went to a few abattoirs and they're all pretty humane. Only one in every thousand or so cattle need to be re-stunned.


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## Oskorei (Nov 2, 2007)

yeah i know that mate (i'm a butcher)

wasnt saying it was bad, was saying that its no different then what they are doing to the dolphins and what happens in a slaugherhouse.

its just that there is are to many hippys with there god like dolphins and frangapannies!


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## HoffOff (Nov 2, 2007)

My dad is also a Bucther and We sometimes Go to the Abattoir < Spelling? And it Is the same as that


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## firedragon (Nov 2, 2007)

why dont they farm the dolphins the same way cattle and chooks etc are farmed then maybe it would be looked at differently. I agree it looks sick and the media will use shock tactics, celebrity faces/names and only show you what they want you to see, leaving alot out. If it's annual and they're not killing too many dolphins then why not let it happen. Atleast they will use almost every part of the animal unlike the waste alot of other countries throw away. IMO Every living thing animal, plant or human is equal, if i was in a country where human was still on the menue i'd try it (think i'm sick if you like meat is meat). And we don't eat people only because we have the voice to speak up for ourselves to say it unacceptable.


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

Hahaha I'd probably try human too. Apparently we're delicious.

Anyway, they don't farm dolphins because the animal lovers would have a _massive_ cry. About how it's cruel to farm such beautiful and intelligent creatures (because we all know that if you are beautiful, cute, captivating and intelligent, you deserve to live more than those that aren't as smart... Or so the animal lovers would have us believe haha)


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## firedragon (Nov 2, 2007)

but calf and lamb are sooooo cute and they eat them


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2007)

But they aren't as intelligent... or something...
I'd eat dolphin if it was farmed. Hell I'd eat it as long as it isn't about to become extinct.


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## JoandDrew (Nov 3, 2007)

Hmm..What a difficult topic.
I must admit seeing a seal with a spear in its head, that would probably die painfully from infection, doesnt seem so good, but if they were allowed to use guns, would they cull more, because its easier. I must agree, and I love dolphins, as long as they arent becoming extinct, and they dont waste any of the animal, like they do when they remove shark fins. I cant see too much a problem, I saw a worse clip a year ago, where the Japanese left the dolphins on a concrete floor to die, now that is inhumane. If it has to be done, make it fast and efficient, and waste nothing.


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## Jen (Nov 3, 2007)

Waste nothing? The Japanese may not waste any part of the dolphin - i don't believe this for a second - but look at their track record with sharks, they use ONE part, the fin, and toss the rest, they have hunted many types of whales close to extinction simply to provide rich tourists with a taste of a 'traditional' food. imo, if its marketed as a traditional food, it should be caught using traditional methods, lets see how many sharks and whales, and dolphins are caught using traditional boats and harpoons


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## Retic (Nov 3, 2007)

I think you will find that shark fins are used mostly by CHINESE not Japanese.


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

PhilK said:


> People are better than animals. Evolution.quote]
> 
> If that the case why are humans the only animal on earth that distroys other animals habitats and pollutes the enviroment! you call that evolution it cant be its not sustainable!


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## Jen (Nov 3, 2007)

boa said:


> I think you will find that shark fins are used mostly by CHINESE not Japanese.



So it's ok then?

wiki quote: Hong Kong handles at least 50% and possibly up to 80% of the world trade in shark fin, with the major suppliers being Europe, Taiwan, Indonesia, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, United States, Yemen, India, Japan, and Mexico.


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## waruikazi (Nov 3, 2007)

I'm so sick of the Jap bashers around the world. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing if it is environmentally sustainable. I didn't see that being anymore cruel that what goes on in sheep and cattle slaughter houses. OMG they have curtains up to stop people seeing them butchered!! What do you expect? no one like seeing any animal butchered, they do it like that in any slaughter house.

Now for my most controversial statement. I think i would prefer to eat a humanely killed wild animal than a humanely killed captive animal. Atleast when they are wild they get to live like they are meant to, eating what they are meant to and breeding like they are meant to. Wild populations (in their native habitat) do not damage biodiversity like sheep and cattle farms do. How much more cruel is it to breed and raise animals in a pen, fatten them up as quick as possible and then kill them than to allow them to live life they way they always have and then use them for food?


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## waruikazi (Nov 3, 2007)

Jen said:


> So it's ok then?
> 
> wiki quote: Hong Kong handles at least 50% and possibly up to 80% of the world trade in shark fin, with the major suppliers being Europe, Taiwan, Indonesia, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, United States, Yemen, India, Japan, and Mexico.



No, rape and pillaging of the environment is not OK. Sustainable harvest is,


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

abbott75 said:


> the life of a human is infinitesimally more important than an animal.


 
Mate im sure you dont seriously beleave that. Especally when theres Murderers and pedifilles around.


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## Jen (Nov 3, 2007)

i agree totally with sustainable harvest, but, and i know this is off topic, shark fin is not harvested in a sustainable or responsible manner. I have no problem with slaughter houses, i eat meat and we sometimes slaughter our own, but to cut off an animals fin, then let it just slide back into the water to die by drowning is inhumane


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## alex_c (Nov 3, 2007)

its unfortunate that this happens but its their tradition and part of their culture. so due to certain people that have made the worlds leaders afraid to step in due to fear of being called a fascist etc its going to keep happening its an unfortunate drawback of giving people freedom of speech.


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

Everyones talking about environmentally sustainable!

I lived in china for a year and the main consumed animal was infact the pig nosed turtle to which babys sold for 50c australian and full grown adults for $7 australian now how can that be environmentally sustainable when in fact they are taking every single one fromNew Guinea and from my understanding they are yet to be bred in captivity.


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

No im saying there are people out there who dont need to be taking up space! 
To which id rather a mouse take there spot!


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

abbott75 said:


> So you're saying you would die to save something like a mouse?


 
It wasnt a crack at me was it? 

dont think you read it right! read it again

To even think about putting someone you dont know in the same bracket as those people i mentioned in insane!


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## JoandDrew (Nov 3, 2007)

Jen said:


> i agree totally with sustainable harvest, but, and i know this is off topic, shark fin is not harvested in a sustainable or responsible manner. I have no problem with slaughter houses, i eat meat and we sometimes slaughter our own, but to cut off an animals fin, then let it just slide back into the water to die by drowning is inhumane


Im with you on that, why waste the rest of the animal, for goodness sake, they should use the meat, or export it to countries that would. I hate the waste..:cry:


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## JoandDrew (Nov 3, 2007)

This is a very controversial topic, and as humans we will all have our own opinion, and it would take quite a bit to convince me to change my thoughts on the topic. I think we could argue this forever and never all agree. So I think we should do our best, to do the right things by the animals in our lives, and show respect to any we encounter on our journeys. Never support the killings we personally dont believe are right, and pray that the stupid human race, doesnt bring any more animals to extinction..


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

There is a simple fact that stops this argument in its tracks: if it is environmentally sustainable, there is nothing more wrong with dolphin slaughter than with cattle or sheep slaughter. 

For those that think because they are intelligent and loveable killing them is wrong, it is not up to you to decide what deserves to live and what doesnt. Much less based on intelligence and cuteness.

KWKW you have some odd views (odd to me, this isn't a personal dig), but if you honestly think that humans aren't the top of the species... I guess that is up to you, isn't it? Most humans will agree that animals lives are simply not as important as a human life. I'd be in that boat for sure.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

so if your studying to become a vet ,why bother?animals lives arent important.
become a doctor dude


but also if people want to eat dolphin go for it
if you can deal with the controversy theres nothing stopping you


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

Please quote where I said animal lives aren't important? I never said that, and I don't believe that to be the case. I love animals, hence making my whole life about them. But that doesn't mean I think a dog/cat/snake/dolphin's life is more important than the bloke down the road's.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

well your prob best becoming a doctor,
your very passionate about humans
and you think animals are sort of ok but not that important but you would like to save them for something to do 
its ok dude no ones gonna hate on you for your opinion


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## Aussie Python Lover (Nov 3, 2007)

*yawns* this crap has gone on for centeries do you really think it is going to stop now???? No other wise it wouldve been done by now... Im over with the drama of it all is quite pathetic really....But personally imo I wouldnt eat dolphin..


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## kelly (Nov 3, 2007)

I'm vegan and I have exactly the same views as Phil. So are you saying I'm not passionate about animals either?
As long as an animal is not endangered or protected, what is the problem in killing it for food? Yes, I agree that it should never be done in an inhumane way - but you can't place a higher value on an animal just because it is "cuter" and "more intelligent" than others.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

no i dont think its gonna stop
and i wouldnt eat it either
we can only look after whats goin on in our waters


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## kelly (Nov 3, 2007)

Why wouldn't you eat dolphin?


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## Radar (Nov 3, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Now for my most controversial statement. I think i would prefer to eat a humanely killed wild animal than a humanely killed captive animal. Atleast when they are wild they get to live like they are meant to, eating what they are meant to and breeding like they are meant to. Wild populations (in their native habitat) do not damage biodiversity like sheep and cattle farms do. How much more cruel is it to breed and raise animals in a pen, fatten them up as quick as possible and then kill them than to allow them to live life they way they always have and then use them for food?


 
This I totally agree with, on one condition, it IS DONE HUMANELY. Putting cattle and sheep onto our land is the single BIGGEST ecological mistake we have ever made, especially when we have things like 'roos that are much healthier to eat and show populations growth capable of maintianing a sustainable harvest, but that is not the issue here. 

The fact is that these animals _are being slaughtered in the same way that we slaughter our introduced domestic livestock, which is NOT humane._ Yes, it is amazingly cruel how these dolphins and whales are killed, and it makes me want to beat the living $H1T out of the people responsible, but we do the same things to our livestock. How many people have seen the mass chains of pigs being bled out in slaughter houses? Or the bogus 'slice the throat then drop in boiling water' method used to kill the battery hens, no longer able to lay, when its time for them to turn into 'McNuggets' or 'Popcorn chicken'?. It wasnt so long ago cattle were done with a sledgehammer, a bloke standing over the crush, swinging a 9 pound sledgehammer down into the cows forehead to knock it out before it had its throat cut. Now they just use stun guns so powerful that some of the brain material is blown down the spinal cord into the body cavity. :?

Yes, its amazingly cruel what these dolphins are going through, but we need to stand up and raise best practice standards in the meat production industry, not just for dolphins. Personally, I prefer to only eat what I've killed if I can, at least that way I know it died in a humane way.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

yeah i dont put value on cuter or nicer animals either
and im not hating on any one
i just thought people whos lives where heavily invloved with animals
wouldnt get annoyed by people who are very passionate about them.
but you can feel any way you like
your opinion is up to you


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## Radar (Nov 3, 2007)

Kelly (this is not a shot btw, just curious), why are you a vegan if you dont mind animals being killed for food? :|


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## kelly (Nov 3, 2007)

rednut said:


> Kelly (this is not a shot btw, just curious), why are you a vegan if you dont mind animals being killed for food? :|



Of course I mind animals being killed for food. Honestly, I think it's disgusting the amount of meat that westerners consume nowadays. But I also know it's not realistic to think that everyone is going to become vegan and stop relying on animals for food.
My main problem with things like this is - I just don't see how someone who consumes other animals can judge a culture just because they eat something that isn't considered "okay" to eat in Australia.


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## Radar (Nov 3, 2007)

kelly said:


> As long as an animal is not endangered or protected, what is the problem in killing it for food? Yes, I agree that it should never be done in an inhumane way - but you can't place a higher value on an animal just because it is "cuter" and "more intelligent" than others.


 
Im so confused right now, but I had a very big night last night, so I'll just accept that something was lost in translation as always seems to happen over the net/text messages :lol:


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## kelly (Nov 3, 2007)

:lol: Okay I should have re-phrased that and I have not slept so bear with me here while I explain myself.

I was really asking that as a question to the people on here who eat other animals, but say they wouldn't eat dolphin or think that it's disgusting that others cultures eat it. We kill other animals for food so why should it be any different for dolphins?
I don't believe in double standards when it comes to animals, meat is meat.


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## RevDaniel (Nov 3, 2007)

That is aweful. I would love to have been one of the people on surfboards stopping the butchers.


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## Radar (Nov 3, 2007)

Alright, I get it now, fair point.


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## Radar (Nov 3, 2007)

RevDaniel said:


> That is aweful. I would love to have been one of the people on surfboards stopping the butchers.


 
Have you heard of "Sea Shepherd"?

Seriously, go to this link (wikipedia) and read this, its amazing what these boys get up to, and If you've got the necessary bits, it might be right up your alley......not for the feint hearted though. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Shepherd


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

PiMp said:


> well your prob best becoming a doctor,
> your very passionate about humans
> and you think animals are sort of ok but not that important but you would like to save them for something to do
> its ok dude no ones gonna hate on you for your opinion


Must.. resist... infraction... Get out of it you goose, just 'cause you've read a few posts on an internet forum means you know who I am or how I feel . You have no idea who I am or how I feel about anything, and you seem to conveniently ignore that I keep telling you I _am_ passionate about animals, but would not put a human before one if it came to kiling one or the other. Who would?!

The funniest bit is "you think they're OK but not that important and want to save them for something to do" hahaha. I can only tell you that I would not be using 5 years of my life at uni, and my weekends studying to save animals 'for something to do'. I _am_ passionate about animals, and in my life I will probably save more animals than anybody who is against dolphin slaughter, or doesn't eat meat.

Anyway, back onto the argument, as some have said, just because we don't see eating dolphin as "OK" doesn't give us the moral highground to try and stop it. I don't see the people of India rallying around our abattoirs to stop our beef industry?


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## KWKW (Nov 3, 2007)

PhilK said:


> KWKW you have some odd views (odd to me, this isn't a personal dig), but if you honestly think that humans aren't the top of the species... I guess that is up to you, isn't it? Most humans will agree that animals lives are simply not as important as a human life. I'd be in that boat for sure.


 
I never said humans where not the top species! 

becouse look at all the damage we have done to the world no other animal on earth can do that!

as for animals lives not as important as a human life generally speaking i agree.
But what i was saying and you can look back and re-read them is that there are people out there that should not be here like people who take another persons life ect to which i beleave they should not take up any space and if that means an animal takes that place so be it!

im sure you have wondered why some of these people in jail for the rest of there lifes are receaving (wasteing) good food and water to which could be used to help other starving people and or animals that have done no wrong.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Must.. resist... infraction... Get out of it you goose, just 'cause you've read a few posts on an internet forum means you know who I am or how I feel . You have no idea who I am or how I feel about anything, and you seem to conveniently ignore that I keep telling you I _am_ passionate about animals, but would not put a human before one if it came to kiling one or the other. Who would?!
> 
> The funniest bit is "you think they're OK but not that important and want to save them for something to do" hahaha. I can only tell you that I would not be using 5 years of my life at uni, and my weekends studying to save animals 'for something to do'. I _am_ passionate about animals, and in my life I will probably save more animals than anybody who is against dolphin slaughter, or doesn't eat meat.
> 
> Anyway, back onto the argument, as some have said, just because we don't see eating dolphin as "OK" doesn't give us the moral highground to try and stop it. I don't see the people of India rallying around our abattoirs to stop our beef industry?




dude how can argue with you,you are now my moral guardian
i will look to you in times of need to offer counsel,
you are my rock,
my foundation
i now have no doubt you are passionate
cause you told me so









LOL


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

Sweet comeback mate. Instead of arguing with logic and any facts, you resort to sarcasm. What a valuable addition to the world.

KWKW I agree about murderers/rapists etc


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 3, 2007)

im serious


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

Except of course nothing of what I said had anything to do with moral councel or the other drivel you spouted. But righto.


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## Oskorei (Nov 3, 2007)

i wonder wnat dolphin tastes like?

and how come no one is standing up for the thousands of tarantulas that are killed (by just being put on a kebab stick and fried alive) to be eat.. .is it because they are not intelligent and look scary?

and what about prawns boiled alive?

bunch of hippy hipocrates (sp?) on here


also if we all start to eat dolphin, then we will need less cattle and lambs.. thus giving the farmland back to nature for herps to live in... so in fact eating dolphins can save our herps!


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## Magpie (Nov 3, 2007)

Tastes like tuna anyway.


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## Tatelina (Nov 3, 2007)

Regarding the video:
If dolphins are just like fish to them and they saw nothing wrong with the slaughter...then why would they care if cameras were filiming them. Bah. I hate people.


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## Oskorei (Nov 3, 2007)

cool i love tuna! next trip over there i am getting me a meal

cause the people filming are hassling them. and would you want some people comming to your work and filming you? i wouldnt.. i would be threating a stabbing if they came my way


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## cement (Nov 3, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Must.. resist... infraction... Get out of it you goose, just 'cause you've read a few posts on an internet forum means you know who I am or how I feel . You have no idea who I am or how I feel about anything, and you seem to conveniently ignore that I keep telling you I _am_ passionate about animals, but would not put a human before one if it came to kiling one or the other. Who would?!
> 
> The funniest bit is "you think they're OK but not that important and want to save them for something to do" hahaha. I can only tell you that I would not be using 5 years of my life at uni, and my weekends studying to save animals 'for something to do'. I _am_ passionate about animals, and in my life I will probably save more animals than anybody who is against dolphin slaughter, or doesn't eat meat.
> 
> Anyway, back onto the argument, as some have said, just because we don't see eating dolphin as "OK" doesn't give us the moral highground to try and stop it. I don't see the people of India rallying around our abattoirs to stop our beef industry?


 
You really like the sound of your fingers clacking the keyboard don't you , young lad.
I don't know where anyone here, me included, says that we would give our live to save an animal.
When you have some more life experience under your belt, you will realise that your life is no different then anyone or anything elses. The Homo Sapien is nothing more then a species of planet earth. Sure we are clever, and oh so important, but dead or alive, no more important then a fly.

And stop harping on about how we don't know anything about you, you goose. You are the biggest serial poster on this site, we've seen the photos and read your posts and your psyche and personality comes through. Your a 19 yr old, with an ego you can't jump over, uni-student who thinks he knows the way of the world. But your in the right trade mate, because vets don't get scutinised when they bury their mistakes.


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## PhilK (Nov 3, 2007)

I'll just ignore the personal stuff. The only reason why I posted about him not knowing me is that he immediately assumed he knew what my values etc were. Just not true.

The only reason I got so deep into this is because it's one of the things that annoys me when people get up in arms about something like this for reasons that aren't totally legitimate. Yeah, it sucks they're being killed, but no more than it sucks anything else gets killed.

I however, happen to think Homo sapiens are a fair bit more important than flies.. but that's just me. Anyway, this is getting a little icky so I'd say I should probably duck out of this one.


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## waruikazi (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm gonna kill and eat the next cute little thing i see. As long as it is legal of course!


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 4, 2007)

Whilst I do not particularly enjoy what the Japanese are doing with the dolphins, I do think that the whole stunt was a big cop out. Why are they not passionate about the less gruesome yet far more destructive happenings here in Australia? Why don't they paddle up the Mary River or hang out in some of Sydneys National Parks to ward of bush rock collectors?


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## kelly (Nov 4, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> I'm gonna kill and eat the next cute little thing i see. As long as it is legal of course!



Lets hope you're not seeing any cute women tonight :lol::lol::lol:
Because thats DEFINITELY illegal.


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## waruikazi (Nov 4, 2007)

kelly said:


> Lets hope you're not seeing any cute women tonight :lol::lol::lol:
> Because thats DEFINITELY illegal.



Alright i change my statement... I'll just eat the next cute thing i see :lol:


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## Veredus (Nov 4, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Dolphins aren't people. Period. We don't eat people because that is cannibalism, illegal, and they are people. Animals aren't people. People are better than animals. Evolution.
> 
> .. Referring to later in the post do you honestly think they are 'higher' life forms than us because they don't ruin their environment and have wars? ...If so, and given the chance between a dolphin being killed and a human being killed you would choose the human..? That's pretty messed up.


 
You say you are studying to be a vet but if you truly think that "people are better than animals" I think you missed something in basic biology because people ARE animals, unless you would rather class us as a species of plant, or perhaps we aren't even a eukaryote organism. 

So we have gone a long way to destroying the only known planet that can support us in order to build upon a society based around such a foolish concept as a monetary economy. I fail to see how sky scrapers and hydrogen bombs make us better. 

Cannibalism is a widely practice trait in nature and was an acceptable practice in many human cultures until forceful inclusion of certain religious moral values upon these cultures. Your argument of its illegality is illegitimate. You state that the Japanese fishermen have been killing dolphins for years as justification for the continuation of the practice. By that logic cannibalistic cultures should be allowed to continue and thrive for as long as it is environmentally sustainable to eat human beings (I imagine a fairly long time if cannibal groups remain relatively small and select.)


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## brettmo (Nov 4, 2007)

my opinion?
survival of the fittest (smartest).
BUT... in a humane way ffs...
a bullet to the head.. lethal injection etc.
what the japanese are doing is just wrong.


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## PhilK (Nov 4, 2007)

Veredus said:


> You say you are studying to be a vet but if you truly think that "people are better than animals" I think you missed something in basic biology because people ARE animals, unless you would rather class us as a species of plant, or perhaps we aren't even a eukaryote organism.
> 
> Cannibalism is a widely practice trait in nature and was an acceptable practice in many human cultures until forceful inclusion of certain religious moral values upon these cultures.


Oh you're right... I forgot people aren't plants. Thanks for reminding me mate, I'll ace my final exams now :lol:. When I refer to animals, I refer to those animals that aren't human. Thought that was pretty evident.

I completely agree. I think it is wrong that cannibalistic tribes and cultures have been forced to change their ways. I agree that if it's what they've been doing for 1000s of years, they shold be able to do it. I just won't go visit them for tea.

I think that it is fine for the Japanese to fish for whales and dolphins, until it impacts negatively on the wild populations. Then it should be reduced/stopped. I would also support the farming of whales and dolhpins for human consumption, as this is much better than harvesting from nature in my opinion.


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## Dodie (Nov 4, 2007)

Speaking from an ecological point of view, humans are worth less compared to most animals.


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## Veredus (Nov 4, 2007)

Speaking from a purely statistical standpoint any hunting/fishing of wild animals has a negative impact as it reduces the population. In any case IF cannibals were allowed to eat people it would be a considerably different situation and I may not be as opposed to the Japanese choice of foods but considering our reasons for not killing humans I think it is hypocritical to condone or participate in the mass slaughter of a near equally intelligent creature to ourselves. There needs to be some consistency with why we do things.

And abbott75, you must be joking....spouting rubbish from an outdated book in a debate of modern scientific origin, next I suppose you will tell us that the earth is flat as well as the centre of the universe.....oh and we(humans) certainly as a race can not possibly be descended from apes in an evolutionary sense as god certainly wouldn't allow things to happen THAT way.

Don't get me wrong I support a persons right to choose their religion but use some common sense in recognising that the bible was written thousands of years ago by less knowledgeable beings than your average joe of 2007, to apply it literally to a world infinitely different than that which it was written in is folly.


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## SnakeWrangler (Nov 4, 2007)

In all honesty it is no different to fishing, just on a larger scale. I have no problem with it so long as it is sustainable. Before you guys get the flamethrowers out let me know so I can make a run for the fire suit. 

Abbott75, I applaud your attempt to bring the bible into it. I have a spare fire suit for you.


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## rodentrancher (Nov 4, 2007)

If natives are going to eat Dolphins, Whales etc for food(NOT FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH), not the Japs, I think that might be ok? But not killing just to put on Restaurant Plates, no Way!


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## PhilK (Nov 5, 2007)

Veredus said:


> And abbott75, you must be joking....


Seeing as the first part of his thread suggesting I minor in botanyw as a joke, I would say that is exactly what he was doing, Veredus. Very astute.


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## scorps (Nov 5, 2007)

makes me wanna get a gun and just shoot them all


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## Veredus (Nov 5, 2007)

PhilK said:


> Seeing as the first part of his thread suggesting I minor in botanyw as a joke, I would say that is exactly what he was doing, Veredus. Very astute.


 
For someone who attacks sarcasm as an approach to an argument in some of your earlier posts in this thread you sure do seem to use it alot.


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## KWKW (Nov 5, 2007)

Veredus said:


> Speaking from a purely statistical standpoint any hunting/fishing of wild animals has a negative impact as it reduces the population. In any case IF cannibals were allowed to eat people it would be a considerably different situation and I may not be as opposed to the Japanese choice of foods but considering our reasons for not killing humans I think it is hypocritical to condone or participate in the mass slaughter of a near equally intelligent creature to ourselves. There needs to be some consistency with why we do things.
> 
> And abbott75, you must be joking....spouting rubbish from an outdated book in a debate of modern scientific origin, next I suppose you will tell us that the earth is flat as well as the centre of the universe.....oh and we(humans) certainly as a race can not possibly be descended from apes in an evolutionary sense as god certainly wouldn't allow things to happen THAT way.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I support a persons right to choose their religion but use some common sense in recognising that the bible was written thousands of years ago by less knowledgeable beings than your average joe of 2007, to apply it literally to a world infinitely different than that which it was written in is folly.


 
Couldnt agree anymore!


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## Midol (Nov 5, 2007)

PhilK said:


> There is a simple fact that stops this argument in its tracks: if it is environmentally sustainable, there is nothing more wrong with dolphin slaughter than with cattle or sheep slaughter.
> 
> For those that think because they are intelligent and loveable killing them is wrong, it is not up to you to decide what deserves to live and what doesnt. Much less based on intelligence and cuteness.
> 
> KWKW you have some odd views (odd to me, this isn't a personal dig), but if you honestly think that humans aren't the top of the species... I guess that is up to you, isn't it? Most humans will agree that animals lives are simply not as important as a human life. I'd be in that boat for sure.



Sustainability isn't the only important thing. 

Humanely killing is, and don't even bother bringing up the inhumane slaughter of cows, pigs and sheep as I don't support ANY inhumane killing.

This is NOT sustainable, and never will be. Farming them will never be right as it is to hard to create a humane method of raising large quantities of dolphin.

I also don't agree with the method aboriginals use to kill turtles and dugongs. I don't care if its tradition, cutting the fins of turtles whilst they are alive is a horrible practice.


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