# Huge Dog dilemma



## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

Ok, i believe i jinxed myself about dogs being taken to the pound blah blah, on the 'is keeping snakes as pet cruel' thread, Because i woke up this morning to find my boys gone. They are border collie x and a purebred bull terrier, about 4 yrs.
I completely freaked out as there is no way our dogs can get out of the yard, we have 6 foot solid fencing all round. And the other day a friend observed some guys getting out of a car and walking to our fenceline, we are in the midle of a park so i didnt think twice, but now im wondering if those guys had stolen my dogs.
Anyhue i rang the RSPCA and found that they had them there, i was sooooo relieved. There fully registered so no problems picking them up, besides the $43 release fee each. Or so i thought.....

Apparently they were found on the opposite side of town in the railway station, and had gotten themselves into a dog fight with another persons dog.
He tried splitting it up and evidently got his hand bitten by my bull terrier tony.
Tony is one of those dogs that would never hurt a soul, so this was a huge blow.
Im terrified as now i will have to go through court crap to ge able to keep my dogs. I could just sign them over but that is NOT a option....
I dont know what is going to happen, i have been quoted $1500 in fines and possibly require caging them permanently, unless i appeal - which i will.

Has anyone ever had a problem same as this? And what was the outcome? My dogs are not vicious, and im talking about a bull terrier not a pit bull, so no throwing the vicious breed comments at me. Bull terriers are family dogs and are well trusted around small children.


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Jul 20, 2008)

fight it all the way and start doing lots of training with your dogs so you can help prove they are good dogs and i would report the people ur friend saw to the cops and say you believe they r the ones letting dogs out


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh im gonna fight it. 
I have no way to proove those guys stole them, he didnt get a good look, and like i said, im on a park so hundreds of people have walked around my house.
I will leave it for a little bit and sit here and observe the dogs like a hawk, perhaps they know a way out that i havnt found....


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## Bonustokin (Jul 20, 2008)

spewin mate, hope everything works out for the good.

best way to find out if your dogs can escape is, go outside of your yard and yell "C'mon, lets go for a walk" or "A drive in the car", whatever gets your dogs attention and see if they can get out to you. :lol:


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## kirstys (Jul 20, 2008)

my sister was in a very bad relationship so moved back home with her blue staff who was 16 weeks. My mum already had 2 dogs so we put up fencing to keep them seperate mothers day mum, dad and the rest of the family had a 50th birthday on the other side of town and the ex knew about it that morning we got home and 2 of the dogs were gone. The staff adn mums pug the other dog was kicked in the head and is missing 2 teeth, we rang all the councils and punds put flyers up and nothing we got told we would never see the staff again being a blue and worth a bit of money. The people that took the dogs went through 3 fences and 2 padlocks. Six weeks later nothing my sister feeling bad about my parents looking there dog so bought them a black pug, we found out last week the pug was found hit by a car and now need ops to take his leg of and all over 3000.00 in vet bills. this has been very hard for my parents and sisters who still live at home. I feel for you and what you are going through but it is a reminder that we can not trust people at all and thats sad.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

There chained up at the moment cos it is raining real hard out there, i will do that tomorrow if the weather clears a bit. I have my suspicions about the side fence though as it is wood and I noticed earlier it has some woot rot.
It seems to be intact, but im not taking chances. The weather has been quite wet here so maybe its caused the fence to break somewhere.
My yard is split in 2 where theres the frount yard and the back, there out the back with the secure tall fence and the frount also has a pretty high fence, but i generally dont close the gate behide the car.
It is most probably the wooden fence, therefore it is most likely my fault. I just dont understand why they wouldnt have harrassed the rabbits and rats and stuff in the fround yard, they love tormenting little critters. (They dont deliberately kill them though)


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

*The face of evil?*

Tony with the Boss's son. Big smootch

View attachment 58291


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## Hetty (Jul 20, 2008)

You have to remember that they're animals. My beautiful, friendly, never-hurt-a-fly Golden Retreiver Henry got into a fight with a Boxer when he escaped and the other dog apparently had quite bad injuries (I didn't see the other dog). When the owner of the other dog came to me I was like 'Er.. that can't have been Henry, he would never do that'. I talked to a neighbour who saw the fight happen, and my dog was not only in a fight with the Boxer, but he attacked it!

Good luck, sounds like a bit of a mess


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

I wouldnt doubt they got themselves into the mess, they havnt been socialized with many other dogs. I just hope the guy that got bitten doesnt make out like he is a evil brute of a dog.
Chances are i probably know the guy that got bitten, if only they would give me his number or something. Ill ring and ask for it again tomorrow.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

BTW - I have a scar on my scalp from a labrador, so i understand. But i kept that secret to myself so the dog didnt get put down.


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## coatesy (Jul 20, 2008)

That is really sad. Especially when there are people out there who DO steal dogs! The only suggestion i can make is make sure the fence is ok. Padlock any openings. Since you don't have neighbours it is hard to get them to watch out for you. We had problems with our dogs digging out at our new place. We were lucky in that they both have ID tags and we were called before they got to the pound. Failing that if it is the dogs getting out invest in a Pet Safe fence. Costs around $500 (expensive I know) but they only take about 2 weeks to train and our dogs have not dug out since. As for the court - good luck - maybe get your vet's opinion about your dogs temprament. No one knows what happened out there with the other dog - he may have started it or the guy may have hot your dog. Good luck


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

Dunno, I know for a fact that they dont dig or jump, and i can promise that. As i have always disencouraged that behaviour. At our last house though, tony used to get a good run-up and simply plough himself through the flimsy farm fencing and play with the cows. Which was quite annoying cos the cows got quite fond of the dogs and forced their way into our backyard and relax with them.
This fencing on the other hand is that really thich metal wire fencing, like the security stuff, concrete at the bottom. Only for the wood fence on the side. Thats why im thinking the wood one is where they got out if they did escape on their own.....


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## Glidergirl (Jul 20, 2008)

Staffies can jump very high, higher than you would expect, was the other guys dog on a lead?
anyone knows you dont put your hands into break up a dog fight or you will get bit.
Staffies dont normally go looking for a fight but if provoked they will finish one.


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## FAY (Jul 20, 2008)

I have known a lot of dogs that just love people and would never attack a person...but another dog..it is a different story.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

I think the other guys dog was on a lead. And i cant doubt they didnt start it, cos they probably did. But they didnt target the man who owned the dog, but chances are considering the breed and no-one seems to be able to distinguish 1 breed from another, he will probably cry 'dangerous dog' 
I really hope he doesnt, but the councellor/ranger said his hand was a mess, and so was his dog.
I so wish i had his number to make sure his dog is ok.


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## mebebrian (Jul 20, 2008)

Glidergirl said:


> anyone knows you dont put your hands into break up a dog fight or you will get bit..


 
Damn straight!

Sounds like your in for a rough ride. I have 3 dogs, two staffie x pit bulls and when we moved they escaped from the new yard. Now my dogs are very people friendly but dont really like other dogs. it was a stressfull few hours i can tell you!

Hope it all works out for ya


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

I bet the guy is a rich snooty guy with his poodle or something, he will kill me if he sues. Im too poor.


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## swampie (Jul 20, 2008)

Although bullys are great family dogs you have to remember they were originally bred to be a fighting dog so once they get in to a fight, even though they may not have started it instinct takes over. And no i'm not throwing vicious dog breed comments at you i'm just stating the facts. I love bull terriers and have had them for over 15 years, they are the only dog i'll keep. I have been through a few similar situations with my dogs so i know how you feel, they can be worse than kids sometimes. 
You will have to keep an eye on your boy now as once they start fighting it can be a hard thing to stop unfortunately. Its a bugger that he bit a person as that can really go against you in court. I hope everything works out for you though and you don't lose your boy.


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## BHPMAD (Jul 20, 2008)

Midnight i feel very bad for you - am sorry to hear the news. I have dealt with these sort of cases a bit while working with one of the animal welfare organisations in SA (we had to hold these so called viscious dogs for the council). I am unsure of the legalities in your state and they do vary quite a bit. Unfortunately the bottom line is that your dogs were "wondering at large" which is an offense no matter what. A few things i can suggest for the best possible outcome. 
1. Take your dogs to your normal vet immediately for a general health check. 
2. Ask them to recommend a behaviourist (preferably somebody delta-accredited - they should know of someone if not PM me & i will be able to track one down for you) and get your dogs behaviourally assessed by this person and immediately undertake any and all training/behaviour modification recommended.
3. Rectify the cause of escape (which i know u are already doing)
4. Ask anyone and everyone who knows your dogs well to write letters/statements regarding the dogs' previous behaviour. Anyone with animal knowledge especially.
5. Immediately start looking into caging ideas so that if that is the ruling made you can get it done immediately. Remember that caging does not mean small crates. They can be half the size of your yard 

I hope that helps a bit  Most of these things turn out ok so try not to worry too much ok 

Best of luck.

Corrie.


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## Jewly (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about all this, you must be so worried. I just had a thought ...if the dogs were found at the railway station have you approached the station itself to see if you can view the video survelliance footage to see if your dogs were taken there by someone or whether they just wandered in on their own? Might be worth a shot.


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## sockbat (Jul 20, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> There chained up at the moment cos it is raining real hard out there, i will do that tomorrow if the weather clears a bit. I have my suspicions about the side fence though as it is wood and I noticed earlier it has some woot rot.
> It seems to be intact, but im not taking chances. The weather has been quite wet here so maybe its caused the fence to break somewhere.
> My yard is split in 2 where theres the frount yard and the back, there out the back with the secure tall fence and the frount also has a pretty high fence, but i generally dont close the gate behide the car.
> It is most probably the wooden fence, therefore it is most likely my fault. I just dont understand why they wouldnt have harrassed the rabbits and rats and stuff in the fround yard, they love tormenting little critters. (They dont deliberately kill them though)


 
I lived in Orange for 3yrs and there was a dog fighting ring being run by a couple of brothers, My neighbors dogs were taken.We had a beautiful dingo bullie X and a blue cattle, I'm sure the only reason my dogs weren't taken was because they lived inside.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

Jewly said:


> I'm sorry to hear about all this, you must be so worried. I just had a thought ...if the dogs were found at the railway station have you approached the station itself to see if you can view the video survelliance footage to see if your dogs were taken there by someone or whether they just wandered in on their own? Might be worth a shot.


 
Thats a good idea. But if someone would steal them, they wouldnt take the boring old border collie as well. Ive had alot of people ask if they can borrow tony for breeding with their pit bull etc. But they get really peeved when i tell them they cant, plus he's desexed.
If they did steal tony the bully, the collie whould have gone crazy to follow, and tony would have went crazy as well to get away, so i thought maybe they wouldve dropped him cause of his wriggling and left, leaving the dogs out and free.

Also, like i said i dont doubt they attacked the other dog, im not even going to claim they wouldnt. Quite frankily i reckon they would attack any other dog that looked at them cross-eyed, plus they seem to think there indestructable when there a team together.
But they didnt hunt a person down, and im glad he didnt claim so, but who knows. Perhaps he was bitten by his own dog.


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## Jewly (Jul 20, 2008)

It's only natural that if you go putting yourself in between 2 dogs fighting that you are going to be bitten and that doesn't mean that your dogs are vicious. I've owned Bull Terriers in the past and they are very loving and usually have very good natures. The ones that don't have usually been trained to be that way by being mistreated by their owners.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

Haha, well tony is always showing off, and prances around with a ball, he squeeks with happiness and never really barks. If he hasnt got a ball he chases his tail, but i stop him from doing that.
On the drive home from the pound he was rolling over and wriggling himself onto my parner lap, with toungue hanging out. In fact he would be the dumbest dog youve ever met. 
He reminds me of Billy from 'grim adventures of billy and mandy', - stupid. Hahaa, he's so cute though
Im feeling a little better now. Relax now and lots of phonecalls tomorrow..


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## antaresia_boy (Jul 20, 2008)

what moron would try to break up 2 dogs? especially big dogs like that...
he seems to be lacking common sense.as well as taking your dogs to a behaviouralist, maybe you should take the man who got bitten to a doctor to see if he has any brain injuries previous to this incident...


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## Jewly (Jul 20, 2008)

He sounds adorable. 

I had this gorgeous Staffy x Red Cattle Dog called Sam and he was such a big sook. If I ever tried to cuddle my partner, he would shove himself up in between us, so he didn't miss out on a group hug ...lol If we couldn't find him, you could bet that he was in our bed and he'd be lying flat on his back, under the covers with his head on the pillow and he wouldn't even disturb the covers much. How he managed to do it, I have no idea cause he was a big dog.


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## Noongato (Jul 20, 2008)

antaresia_boy said:


> what moron would try to break up 2 dogs? especially big dogs like that...
> he seems to be lacking common sense.as well as taking your dogs to a behaviouralist, maybe you should take the man who got bitten to a doctor to see if he has any brain injuries previous to this incident...


 
Hahaha, true true. Considering he is also a Orange local its very probable

Jewly - Yeah, the bigger they get the more they are like big babies. Tony cried so much when i left the pound. But he was so happy when i came back and got him.


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## Noongato (Jul 21, 2008)

Ok, today i can pretty much confirm the side fence was the problem, one of the wooden planks was loose at the bottom, it doesnt look like a big enough gap for them to fit but anything is possible. I fixed the dodgy peice by replacing some of the wooden planks as theyre all weather worn. Also, i told the real estate that the fence is slowly rotting away.


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## Nekhbet (Jul 23, 2008)

hmm if your dogs were roaming at large, tried to fight another dog on lead and bit the hand of the owner then you're in a bit of trouble.

And Delta accredited .. umm yeah. Try K9 Force in Sydney to recommend someone for you, he has a website.

You can appeal but since a persons hand was allegedly involved then get ALL the information you can - witness statements, photos of the guys hand, a vet report from the guys dog, council ranger report etc to be able to put up a valid argument.

If the other dog has injuries, he has medical bills etc then you will be liable to pay them.
Fix the fence yourself and make sure they can't get out or you may not get them back at all. With the dog laws in NSW I dont think breed is going to make much difference.


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## Noongato (Jul 23, 2008)

Well, i secured the fence good n tight so no getting out of there again, but the collie was out this morning and got a mans small terrier dog. Didnt hurt it too bad though, but he reported it to the ranger and now i have to decide on surrendering them to the RSPCA or relocating to a out-of-town house.
So im not the greatest right now since my dogs have to go.....


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## weet-bix (Jul 23, 2008)

Unfortunately moving out of town will not solve your problem. Out of town you have less secure fences, livestock and wildlife. Euthing is the only resposible thing to do Im sorry to say. The dog has got it in him now and it will never leave. How would you feel if was a child next time........


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## RedEyeGirl (Jul 23, 2008)

poor guys don't worry midnight ull get over it.That happened with my Jack-russel X maltese Bozo he got out and got in a fight and had a tear in his ear and heaps of scratches.


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## euphorion (Jul 23, 2008)

wow, never realised i could get so worked up over something so quickly, i was absolutely seething by the time i finished reading your post!

agree with much of what has been said already, fight it all the way and report the sods who may have released your dogs. take loads of training to prove their good and loyal family pets and fight the 'bite' case with the fact that the idiot tried to break up the fight in the first place. HULLO SELF DEFENCE ON TONY'S SIDE!??! 

lucky that you actually got them back though, i would be lost without my dogs.

goodluck and stay positive!


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## Noongato (Jul 23, 2008)

Ok, well the family property has proper dog cages on it, so i just striked a deal with the rangers that we house them on the property for a while in cages, while we make a fully secure dog cage thats suitable for the dangerous dogs act. So they have to wear special collars, be muzzled at all times in public, blah blah blah.
Right now i have them on chains that are from bunnings (thick!) and connected with 'D' Clips and there wearing double x 2 heavy duty collars. They arnt going anywhere.


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## Noongato (Jul 23, 2008)

BTW, the dogs have always been around kids, they arnt aggressive at all towards people, just other dogs.


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## RedEyeGirl (Jul 23, 2008)

i know it is so annoying and my dog didn't even start the fight the stupid jackrussel did


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## weet-bix (Jul 23, 2008)

You stated earlier that they attacked another dog that was on a lead.......hmmmm
You can not guarentee anything with you dogs anymore, they have proved to have a nasty streak unfortunately. Yes they are dangerous dogs and god help anything they decide to attack. Dont take the risk as it will only mean heartache in the future. I have been there done that with a dog that "wouldnt hurt a fly"....it cost me big time both financially and emotionally. I know its hard but I think euthing is the kindest and safest from all sides.


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## Noongato (Jul 23, 2008)

Sorry weetbix, but thats not a option. I will be spending many $$ to provide the ultimate caging requirements as i refuse to condemn my dogs for their instincts.


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## BHPMAD (Jul 23, 2008)

Hi Midnight - had to come back and see the updates re your babes. Sorry to hear that its not going too well for you. Good on you for doing what you are though  In my experience dogs know the difference between other dogs/cats & people. Just because they have attacked other animals they will rarely attack people, unless they already had that "streak" in them. Many people do not understand the bond we can share with our animals and tell us we should euth them because thats the best thing as people are at risk. You know your dogs better than anyone and i think you are doing the most responsible thing for all concerned by getting the required caging. That said....always be careful of these dogs with kids. I have a "Staffy x" () who is the most beautiful, loving, sooky dog i have ever had - but i do not trust her 100% with kids. The other thing for you to remember is that as dogs age they become less tolerent of "things" eg kids pulling tails, ears etc and they are more likely to bite as they simply don't tolerate what they once would have. Unfortunately as they have bitten once before (regardless of how or why it occurred), it now becomes an option they will consider again if they need to. Not sure if that makes sense (trying to describe years of dog behaviour knowledge in a few sentences) - please remember i'm not having a go at all. Support u and ur dogs 110%  Best of luck.

Corrie.


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## Dipcdame (Jul 24, 2008)

"One mishap does not a vicious dog make", or something like that, good luck, I would be out of my mind if in your position! You seem to be doing all you can to avoid an unwanted end to all this, just stand your ground and be open and honest with the authorities, surely, and hopefully, justice will prevail.
Just a thought......... do you attend a regular vet that could vouch for them and their nature/behaviour? Maybe they could provide you with some sort of documentation to validate your dog's behaviour as pets and not fighters.
I wish you all the best, and a happy outcome.


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## Chris1 (Jul 24, 2008)

i say if someones stupid enough to stick their hand in a dog fight they probably deserve to get bitten.



not that that helps you though, sorry to hear that, sounds really messy. Hope it all turns out well in the long run,....


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## Noongato (Jul 24, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your support, ill keep you all updated on what happens...


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## euphorion (Jul 24, 2008)

just chucking in my support again  thinking of you and yours!

oh and weetbix, we're all entitled to our opinion, so fairs fair that you have yours. but that was obviously not the suggestion midnight was looking for... wouldn't matter to me what my dogs had done were i in midnight's position, i would fight for them. as far as i'm concerned all dogs will be vicious with other dogs given the right circumstances, just a shame the bloke that got bitten was silly enough to get in the way. 

good luck good luck good luck!


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## Noongato (Jul 24, 2008)

Thanks again. The odds of my dogs biting/attacking anything is about the same as everybodies dogs. And the rangers told me that since its been raining alot lately they are working overtime to deal with dog attacks on dogs, as they are all able to dig out of the yards.
My side fence is just been constantly wet enought to have it rot away.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok, Another update....and its more bad news...

Since all this stuff happened and the dogs have been chained, Cheif (Border Collie) had a complete additude change and was going hey-wire every time he heard a dog back (even in the distance), He was to the point where he would be tugging on the chain and flipping around when a dog was nearby, which even scared me. So, i made the most toughest decision to surrender him to the pound, where unfortunately he was euthanised. IMO there was no sure way i could guarantee i could contain Cheif when he reacted so badly to other dogs and was so determined to get to them. Therefore, i chose to be better safe than sorry and hand him over. 

Tony (Bull Terrier) is his usual self and is happily to tolerate other dogs, when the two were together Cheif called the shots and he is simply a follower. He is next to me right now and i am going to have to take him to the vet to treat for kennel cough, as he was coughing pretty bad earlier.

So, sad sad day. My Little Cheif is gone forever..........


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## oddball (Jul 28, 2008)

Oh midnightserval that's awful! I hope you're ok!
Makes me wonder what happened to the poor boy when he was out.
I really hope everything is ok with your Tony now.


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## Brigsy (Jul 28, 2008)

So sorry to hear that. I spend as many hours as i can in a day with my dogs around people and other dogs, livestock so i hope i can trust them. they did get out a few months back and i was a mess for about 6 hours as they are pig dogs i knew if anything went wrong i would to be blame. found them in the park where i do most of their training having a great old time. Again i feel for your loss i dont know what i would do without my dogs,


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## Tatelina (Jul 28, 2008)

Gawd...that sucks.
Bull terriers are restricted breeds so you're going to have a huge battle on your hands...

Good luck with everything!


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Bull terriers arnt restricted, thats pitbulls.
Tony should be fine now, as Cheif was at fault for both times.
Yes its really hard, but i dont think it has truely sunk in yet....
I dont know how im going to tell the family etc.


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## Brigsy (Jul 28, 2008)

Dont know how far it is in nsw yet but the list of restricted breeds is getting longer and longer and way out of control. There was talk of even corgies bein restricted go figure that one.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Serious? Thats rediculous. I believe cross-breeds pose the biggest threat to people, especially if theres chihuahua in there somewhere, those buggers are psychotic.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok, Tatlina, i take it back. Just in case im wrong.....


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## Tatelina (Jul 28, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Ok, Tatlina, i take it back. Just in case im wrong.....



You are. Bull terriers are 100% restricted. This stupid BSL (breed specific legislation) crap has German Sheperds, and Rottis in it's sight as well...it's ridiculous. 
If I was you, I would research all that I could about BSL and how it affects your loved pets. It can seriously turn around and bite you on the ***. 

http://www.edba.org.au/
http://www.victimsofbsl.com/
http://www.dogslife.com.au/dogs_life_articles?cid=9446&pid=146514


If you get any of your dogs declared a dangerous dog you'll have to make an enclosed run at your place for them to stay in when you're not home. So be careful and put padlocks on your gates so no idiots can let them out again. 

P.s. I haven't read the whole thread so don't know what's been going on in your situation.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Well, since Cheifs gone they wont be classed as dangerous, but i am going to cage Tony properly anyway, to avoid any future crap


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok just read up on the BSL thing, what a absolute crock of *&^&*!!! Next theyll be banning coloured kids from going to school cos they risk injuring the other students.....


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## Dipcdame (Jul 28, 2008)

Midnight, that is sooo sad, I'm sorry for your loss, I know what it's like tohave to make a decision like that, it's the worst thing in the world. 
Good luck with Tony and his cough, hope it's not a drawn out expensive visit for you, you've really not had a good week. Hope it gets much better.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks to everyone.......
I will survive, i lost my first dog to the pound too, but that was cos of a money issue that i couldnt bail her out. To this day i dont know if she was adopted or put down.


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## kirstys (Jul 28, 2008)

so sorry for your loss we went through it a few years ago when our malamute killed a little dog and then a girl tried to break in and he bit her. He was never the same and we hade to have him put to sleep.
Its not easy


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

*I still have one to spoil...*

View attachment 59056
View attachment 59057


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## cracksinthepitch (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok middy sorry to hear this sad news. 
Did the said attack happen at the railway station where there is possibly CCTV footage. This maybe an avenue to pursue just in case this bloke walks over and lays the boots in to your dog them gets bitten. Just a thought , might provide a decent defense.


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## Noongato (Jul 28, 2008)

Yeah, i thought that. But the guy hasnt even contacted me yet, so i dont think he will. But i could be wrong.
At the moment if i take tony out to the property and then build a cage here the rangers are going to drop the charges and the case as ive been very co-operative.
But if the so-called "victim" wants me to pay vet bills and whatever i will have to fork over the $$, But thats fine.


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## zyzemup (Jul 28, 2008)

This is such a sad thing to happen & people don't understand that dogs are just dogs. They still have that flight or fight instinct. Bronson was the nicest Dachshund in the world until he was attacked by a mastiff at a show, I still like mstiffs, this was just a bad one. He now will fight before he gets attacked. 

He also loves people very much but again, on a night where there was a car crash & I did lots of yelling to get people out of the road of a run-away driverless car, he bit a lady on the leg who got too close to "his children", my youngest 2. 

The same thing happened on a cold windy day where someone just wandered into my yard with a hammer to fix my roof without letting me know they were there & surprised my dogs. Lucky he had a hammer because he also got bitten on the leg after I yelled at him to stay out until I locked up Bronsons grandmother who hated men but loved any other stranger. 

When I take my dogs to show, they can be very nasty to anyone or anything if there is a bitch on season too. If they are scared or someone rushes at them, it can worry them. These dogs are mixing with strange dogs and people all the time but sometimes another dog can look at them with intent & the hackles go up.

I now have electric fences all around the top & bottom of my fences just to keep them from getting out. My gates are locked with padlocks & chains very tightly. 

Dachshunds are cute & small but my smallest mini smooth hair I have at 4.5kgs can kill a half grown lamb & my biggest standard longhair (Bronson pictured here) can kill a fully grown sheep on his own. I have lost too many rats, mice, rabbits & now lambs not to have them in electric fences with solar power as they know when the mains power goes out. Cute & cuddly but still have that instinct to kill. 

I love bullies & my friend breeds mini bullies, they really are great natured but like staffies, they may not start a fight but they sure will finish it. I had staffies myslelf & this is so true even to the nices dog. My staffie was at the bottom of the pecking order in my yard & I had 7 mini longhair dachshund & 6 pups. 

Get a hold of those images from the train station if you can just to see what happened there. You sound like you are very strong & you need to be with dogs you really have to be. I also lock my guys up in pens now when i go out as I have a very nasty man living next door & I have come home to unlocked gates in the past. I'm now buying 300 acres to build my dogs a home where no one can hurt them or bother them. I love my dogs & you keep loving yours & doing the best by them.

Good luck
Kerry & Zyzemup Daxi's 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zyzemup/


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## zyzemup (Jul 28, 2008)

This is such a sad thing to happen & people don't understand that dogs are just dogs. They still have that flight or fight instinct. I had the nicest Dachshund in the world until he was attacked by a mastiff at a show. He now will fight before he gets attacked. 

He also loves people very much but again, on a night where there was a car crash & I did lots of yelling to get people out of the road of a run-away driverless car, he bit a lady on the leg who got too close to "his children". 

The same thing happened on a cold windy day where someone just wandered into my yard with a hammer to fix my roof without letting me know they were there & surprised my dogs. Lucky he had a hammer because he also got bitten on the leg after I yelled at him to stay out until I locked up another dog. 

When I take my dogs to show, they can be very nasty to anyone or anything if there is a bitch on season too. If they are scared or someone rushes at them, it worries them. 

I now have electric fences all around the top & bottom of my fences just to keep them from getting out. Dachshunds are cute & small but my smallest mini smooth haired one at 4.5kgs can kill a half grown lamb & my biggest standard longhair (pictured here) can kill a fully grown sheep on his own. Cute & cuddly but still have that instinct to kill. 

I love bullies & my friend breeds mini bullies, they really are great natured but get a hold of those images from the train station if you can just to see what happened there. You sound like you are very strong & you need to be with dogs you really have to be. I also lock my guys up in pens now when i go out as I have a very nasty man living next door & I have come home to unlocked gates in the past. I'm now buying 300 acres to build my dogs a home where no one can hurt them or bother them. I love my dogs & you keep loving yours & doing the best by them.

Good luck
Kerry & Zyzemup Daxi's 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zyzemup/


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## BHPMAD (Jul 28, 2008)

Really sorry to hear the news midnight. A sad day indeed. I must say that the pics of Tony made me smile though. Just remember that u gave Chief the best life possible and he loved u for it. Hold those happy memories in your heart. :cry:


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## zyzemup (Jul 28, 2008)

sorry about the doulbe message, its my first post.


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## Noongato (Jul 29, 2008)

Odd_ball, dont be rude.

Thanks everyone, and yes im going to fight for Tony as much as possible, everything should be fine. He is so spoilt at the moment as he's all i have (dog wise) and he has Kennel cough from being in the pound. He is such a baby.

And no, im not a strong person at all. Not with the animals, im a flake.


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## carinacat (Jul 29, 2008)

we had our american bulldog girl get out and attack another dog. im not going to bore u with detail but i will say that if u are cooperative the consequences will be less. we modified our fencing, paid all vet bills and we even now dont let our dog outside unsupervised just in case. good luck  im sure everything will work out great in the end but i understand first hand how stressful this is.


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## oddball (Jul 29, 2008)

> Odd_ball, dont be rude.


 Sorry? I didn't mean to be rude at all. I really do feel for you and your poor dogs. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.
Best of luck with tony!


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## Nekhbet (Jul 29, 2008)

Bull terriers are NOT a restricted breed. The following breeds are

Fila Brasiliero
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Presa Canario
APBT
crossbreeds
anything identified as such.

These are different to COUNCIL IDENTIFIED DANGEROUS DOGS which you are dealing with. THe dogs above are non negotiables, your dogs can go through an appeals process and have the DD listing revoked by the court.

http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Residents/documents/Animals/dandogs11.pdf

Here are NSW state guidelines.

If anyone has behavioral issues re: aggression they should see a qualified trainer who is realistic in their approach. I train aggressive, difficult and out of control dogs you would be suprised how a dog can actually be fixed or at least well managed.


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## Noongato (Jul 29, 2008)

oddball said:


> Sorry? I didn't mean to be rude at all. I really do feel for you and your poor dogs. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.
> Best of luck with tony!


 

Nononononono. It wasnt you, im sorry. There was a Troll on here last night posing as Oddball, im sorry. And i was slow to realize it was actually a troll..


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## Noongato (Jul 30, 2008)

*Sleepies*

View attachment 59189


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## Br3ndo (Jul 30, 2008)

cool photo. so how are things? :shock:


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## Noongato (Jul 30, 2008)

Ok, im coping alright. Havnt heard anything from the rangers, and Tonies too sick to go anywhere at the moment...
Im sure people are sick of seeing this thread, but i put piks up for Ms Kakariki in chat, hahaha


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## Br3ndo (Jul 30, 2008)

i hope tony gets well, and it all gets a lil brighter for ya. best of luck aye.


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks again. I appreciate it people


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## callith (Jul 31, 2008)

Good luck with everything


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## Chris1 (Jul 31, 2008)

love the sleepy pic, what a gorgeous doggy!!

not sick of the thread @ all, keep us updated!


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

He seems to be clearing up from the Kennel Cough buisness, but as soon as i get a day off work i will take him to the vet, which isnt till Monday. Believe it or not, im at work right now......


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## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

midnight not being nasty BUT if you ever decide to get another dog SOCIALISE it with humans and dogs alike,the biggest down fall a dog can have is to have a owner who THINKS that my dog would never do that........take some responsibility and do whats best for all dogs alike....you are all blaming the other person that interveined in the fight ,maybe he was doing what he thought was best and SAVING his best mate as you all seem to be siding with midnight as these were her best mates ...its sad that one of your dogs had to be put down but take it as a lesson learnt (the hard way )and improve your animal skills..........if the shoe was on the other foot midnight and someone elses dog had attacked your TONY you would want something done about it ............


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## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

redbellybite said:


> midnight not being nasty BUT if you ever decide to get another dog SOCIALISE it with humans and dogs alike,the biggest down fall a dog can have is to have a owner who THINKS that my dog would never do that........take some responsibility and do whats best for all dogs alike....you are all blaming the other person that interveined in the fight ,maybe he was doing what he thought was best and SAVING his best mate as you all seem to be siding with midnight as these were her best mates ...its sad that one of your dogs had to be put down but take it as a lesson learnt (the hard way )and improve your animal skills..........if the shoe was on the other foot midnight and someone elses dog had attacked your TONY you would want something done about it ............


 

Agreed, simply point it attacked someone therefor it has consquences.


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## TELDAC (Jul 31, 2008)

gillsy said:


> Agreed, simply point it attacked someone therefor it has consquences.





It didnt attack someone, a ******** with no brains got in between them and tried to pull them apart!....

Everyone knows you dont get in between 2 dogs that are fighting without getting hurt and risking getting hurt!...... 
Dogs have a mind of their own when they are in a dog fight!....They block everything happening outside it out basically.... Its not like the dog just launched at the guy for no reason!

So don't *JUST* blame the dog!.....


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

I havnt put blame on anyone or anything, its just pure bad luck, and every dog in the world will get into a fight under the right circumstances. 

And BTW, I never ever ever ever plan to get ANY more dogs, i am not going through the heartbreak without learning my lesson people.......


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## Chris1 (Jul 31, 2008)

TELDAC said:


> It didnt attack someone, a ******** with no brains got in between them and tried to pull them apart!....
> 
> Everyone knows you dont get in between 2 dogs that are fighting without getting hurt and risking getting hurt!......
> Dogs have a mind of their own when they are in a dog fight!....They block everything happening outside it out basically.... Its not like the dog just launched at the guy for no reason!
> ...



couldnt agree more,...its as silly as trying to cuddle a snake while its in feeding mode!!!


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## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

ok so he was an adult acting in self defense towards a dog/s that were attacking his pet .yes he put himself in between the fighting dogs but as was commented midnights dogs attcked 1st .and I know I would do anything to get another dog off my pooch .I couldnt just stand back and watch it happen .....and what couldve of been worse was it may have been a child who was walking the pet dog so lower to the ground and a tragedy couldve evolved...dont blame the man for stepping in .......midnight like i said sorry about your dogs and am glad you realise that at the moment you are not ready for another animal....


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

I never will be, i can guarantee that. No more dogs.........


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## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

TELDAC said:


> It didnt attack someone, a ******** with no brains got in between them and tried to pull them apart!....





TELDAC said:


> Everyone knows you dont get in between 2 dogs that are fighting without getting hurt and risking getting hurt!......
> Dogs have a mind of their own when they are in a dog fight!....They block everything happening outside it out basically.... Its not like the dog just launched at the guy for no reason!
> 
> So don't *JUST* blame the dog!.....




So your saying someone who was protecting a member of their family is to blame. Dogs fight yes, but you cant’ say every dog is the same by getting in the middle of them. 

Ok lets not blame the dog, lets blame who is actually responsible the owner.


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

Heres hoping this exact predicament doesnt get cast onto you.......
Everything i have done for my dogs i was a responsible owner, we had just moved back into town 6+mnths ago, so the dogs havnt seen very many other dogs for a good while, and over the wet weather the side fence had rotted away.

If i had let the dogs out myself, or they were only contained by a tiny little fence, yes i would be at complete fault, but for the circumstances, it was a plain old accident. Who here patrols their fenceline every day to check for wood rot????


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## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, unfortunately an accident that ended up with someone being attacked.

This is the same line of thinking in the adder bite thread, accidents are almost always avoidable.


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## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

So we have three suspects to blame: the dog, the owner or someone trying to protect his own dog.

I know the only one i'm not blaming.


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## redbellybite (Jul 31, 2008)

yeah but midnight your dogs got out more then once ...thats why you had to surrender chief...........so you as the human owner need to be the responsible one ..taking self blame is the hardest medicine it goes down with a bitter taste but it makes you remember for next time .........


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## gillsy (Jul 31, 2008)

Just think if a taipan and gotten out bitten someone and they died, the snake wouldn't get put down... but the owner would be more than likely up for negligence charges.


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## Noongato (Jul 31, 2008)

Well, a week is almost gone, and here i thought id be in the clear and wouldnt have to fall in a hole from guilt.......thanks


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## TELDAC (Jul 31, 2008)

Gillsy Give d poor girl a break!!!....Shez just lost her best friend!!

Like she wouldn't feel bad enough as it is without you laying more blame on her and making her feel worse!!


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## gillsy (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm not blaming her I know ACCIDENTS do happen, however putting ANY blame on the guy that tried to break it up is just STUPID.

I feel sorry for her I would defend my dogs if they bit someone to, but saying a comment like 'he woudn't hurt a fly' when it's attacked someone is like saying the sky isn't blue.


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## Moreliaman (Aug 1, 2008)

skys never blue here.....usually overcast & raining !!!


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