# Skinny Bearded Dragon. Please help me!



## Shelly13 (Apr 1, 2013)

Hello!
I only just signed up on AussiePythons but I have an issue with my two Bearded Dragons!

I'm not 100% sure on the age of both of them but one is around 3 1/2 inches and other around 4 inches. One is quite a decent size, and the other is a bit smaller and looks alot skinnier then the longer beardie. Although the head on the smaller beardie, is smaller than the other, as confusing as that sounds.
They are both seperated from each other, not being able to see one another. I did have them both in the same enclosure when i first got them, but i noticed alot of arm waving going on and seen that the smaller bearded dragon was smaller than the other so i decided to seperate them. But when i first bought them, the smaller one has always been skinnier/smaller then the other!
I am feeding them carrots, kale, cucumber, banana, pear and apple with calcium power mixed through as well as crickets with calcium sprinkled over them. They have their 10.0 UVB lights on all day and their heat on and off throughout the day if it isn't hot. I currently don't have a thermometer in there to check the temperature or a thermostat. I'm not sure that they are both eating enough as i don;t have a cricket feeder for the crickets to be in, and i think they are starting to hide in the enclosure. I'm also not sure if they are eating enough crickets? They also haven't been eating much of their vegetables either. 
I have also noticed that both of them haven't grown that much. I just moved to Sydney and have asked my mum to take care of them while i've been up there but she has been doing everything i have done except handling but i will be taking them to my new place tomorrow so i can take care of them again. But when i go to handle both of them they have started opening their mouths and running away from my hand and the bigger one even bit me today! 

I'm really worried that i'm not doing something right and i'm just constantly stressing over them. I love them so much and don't want to lose them!

Please, any advice would be fantastic. Heelllpp!


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## mummabear (Apr 2, 2013)

You really need to get a thermometer to check their basking spot temps. Incorrect temps is the 1st thing to look at. You want over 40.


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## saintanger (Apr 2, 2013)

you need to get a thermostat asap, the temp might be to cold or to hot and could kill them. also if its to cold they can't digest their food so it could mae them sick or go off their food. also could be since its starting to get colder and they might be brumating. 

i would also cut back on the amount of fruit and offer more veg e.g they love bok choi and also gut load all crickets and woodies with gut load before feeding them.


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## ReptileMad_98 (Apr 2, 2013)

like the others said you need to get a thermometer, when you feed them try to keep the basking spot on so they can get heat and feed, and feed less fruit and veg and more crickets!


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## =bECS= (Apr 2, 2013)

Feed them in a seperate container outside the enclosure, that way you knkw hiw much they are eating and rogue crickets wont munch on them. 
Crickets and woodies no bigger than the space between their eyes. Try feeding baby woodies.
I wouldnt give them cucumber, apple and the like. Mostly asian greens like bok choy etc and grated carrot.

I used to get the babies feeding on greens by taking a small plate and paint the edges with fluon. Then put all the finely chopped greens on it and a few baby woodies. They would try and catch the woodies and get a mouthful of veggies, never took them long to figure that was food too 

Personally I never used a thermostat with my hatchies but I knew a 50w halogen globe was sufficient for the basking spot (with several different levels) in the 2ft tank I used.


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## scorps (Apr 2, 2013)

Mine have hot spots around 35-38 degrees, UVB 10 bulbs above them and are fed woodies and veggies daily, misted every second day and givin calcium powder twice a week.

There really easy to keep if you follow basic guidelines.


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## Shelly13 (Apr 5, 2013)

Ok, so i bought a thermometer yesterday and the temperature is around 38 degrees during the day and i turn the heat off at night and their enclosure stays around 20 degrees. They don't pay any attention to their fruit that much now and they are running after their crickets once i put them in. 
When i try to feed them in a seperate enclosure they don't pay any attention to the crickets at all. Which is really strange.
So you all just recommend feeding bok choi/kale/grated carrot instead? How many crickets should they be consuming each day. Everywhere i look for woodies they are way to large for them, so i can't feed them woodies at the moment!

I'm using a 50w basking heat light for them. Is that the correct globe i should be using?

Thanks!


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## mummabear (Apr 5, 2013)

I would up the globe to at least a 60 -75w globe to get a few extra degrees. You can buy woodys online from livefoods unlimited. I use Asian Leaf Blend from Woolworths, it has Bok Choi, Wombok, Pack Choi, Tatsoi and carrot.


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## =bECS= (Apr 5, 2013)

Try wriggling the greens around with a long pair of tongs so it looks like its 'alive' to them.

Depends on the size of crickets but enough to notice their bellies looking more rounded after a feed


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 5, 2013)

it really depends on the size of enclosure to what size lamp you use,if in a 3' tank probably a 75w-100w.and to keep up the heat put a lid/or partial lid on it(when my kids lived in Newtown the houses were so much colder than out west)
feed them as many crickets as they can eat in 5 minutes,then stop
are you using a flouro tube or CFB for UV?
better to have a flouro 30cm above because it gives better coverage than CFB
hope this helps


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 5, 2013)

scorps said:


> Mine have hot spots around 35-38 degrees, UVB 10 bulbs above them and are fed woodies and veggies daily, misted every second day and givin calcium powder twice a week.
> 
> There really easy to keep if you follow basic guidelines.



in Sydney we give them basking spots of 40-45C with 10.UVB at 30 cm above them and calcium every second day with vitamins twice a week


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## Shelly13 (Apr 6, 2013)

At the moment i have a three foot tank, which is separated halfway (1.5 feet each side) and i have the heat on either side of the enclosure so the 'cool side' meets in the middle for both of them. i'm feeding them small crickets each day. They seem to be having around 5 - 10 each. is that a good amount? What vitamin supplement do you recommend? i can't seem to find any around here. i'm living in Stanmore at the moment and the apartment is quite warm at night with the windows and doors closed.
i have a screw in UVB light for them in both sides.


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## 33s152e (Apr 7, 2013)

At 1 - 2 months old my babies were taking 10 - 15 small crickets each 2 times a day (all dusted with ReptiCal , would eat more if I offered) + some mealworms (treats) + a leaf of bok or Puk Choi greens + grated/processed veg mixture + some softened juvi beardie pellets + lizard pellets (mixed together).
Basking 37oC (24/7) + UVA10B10 CFB (15cm from basking spot 14hrs per day - surprising how much heat these 13W CFBs throw off as well as white light + UVA and UVB) all in 110L tubs.


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## 33s152e (Apr 7, 2013)

re carrots, kale, cucumber, banana, pear and apple

= cucumber is worthless from a nutritional standpoint (just gives water)

= banana, pear and apple only as treats from what I've been told nd been able to findout.


The veg mixture the breeder I bought my babies off is as follows 
1/2 a sweet potato skinned and grated
1c frozen green beans
1c frozen green peas
3 - 4 carrots skinned topped and grated
1 whole bok chol or puk choi (green leafs and white parts of leafs) 

Into the food processor and blitzed to chop the beans and peas and choi and to mix it all together..

Makes enough to feed 3 baby or juvi beardies for about 1 month , I put the mixture into big icecube making mold trays and freeze it, removing one cube of mixture as needed.

I give my guys ReptiCal on all their worms (now giving them medium - large silkworms daily + crickets (not on medium and large crickets at 6 months old) and I also dust their veg mix and softened juvi beardie pellet / lizard pellet mix with Ca powder daily, 2x per week the crickets and veg + pellets mixes are dusted with a mixture of 0,2g Ca + 0,2g ReptiVite powder.

To be sure , I weigh the veg+pellets+shredded choi greens before I give it them and again when they go to bed. My 3 regularly eat 10g per day each of their greens and vegs and pellets + their worms and crickets.

All the crickets my guys get are gut loaded for at least 2 days before they are offered.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 7, 2013)

33s152e said:


> At 1 - 2 months old my babies were taking 10 - 15 small crickets each 2 times a day (all dusted with ReptiCal , would eat more if I offered) + some mealworms (treats) + a leaf of bok or Puk Choi greens + grated/processed veg mixture + some softened juvi beardie pellets + lizard pellets (mixed together).
> Basking 37oC (24/7) + UVA10B10 CFB (15cm from basking spot 14hrs per day - surprising how much heat these 13W CFBs throw off as well as white light + UVA and UVB) all in 110L tubs.


Mealworms should not be fed to beardies that young and why would you leave the basking light on 24/7


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## Shelly13 (Apr 7, 2013)

33s152e said:


> re carrots, kale, cucumber, banana, pear and apple
> 
> = cucumber is worthless from a nutritional standpoint (just gives water)
> 
> ...



Thats really smart actually! I've never thought of doing that. 
I'm still really confused with giving them the crickets as they can't find them all. I don't know how i can feed them without the crickets running away. And i just feel like they aren't eating as much as they should and half of the time i'm not home during the middle of the day so i can't see how well they are feeding. I think they are only having mouth full of veggies and thats about it, if any. And then the crickets when they can be bothered. how long should i wait before i turn the lights on before feeding them the crickets?


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## 33s152e (Apr 7, 2013)

^^ I never put more than 2 or 3 crickets in the tub at any time. Takes longer to feed the dragons and skinks, but they catch and eat nearly all of them and after 2 weeks I usually only find 4 or 5 crickets which had hidden when I'm replacing bedding and cleaning / F10ing the tub and the stuff inside.

My skinks and beardies have a luxourious life , they have access to 24/7 heat (heat pads set at 37oC for the beardies ). They wake up hungry usually and greet me when I get up.

Little jeweller's assay pocket scale (does weights +/- 0.005 g) are pretty cheap on Ebay , weighing the static food before they get it and after they go to bed takes the guess work out of working out who's eating how much.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 7, 2013)

33s152e said:


> ^^ I never put more than 2 or 3 crickets in the tub at any time. Takes longer to feed the dragons and skinks, but they catch and eat nearly all of them and after 2 weeks I usually only find 4 or 5 crickets which had hidden when I'm replacing bedding and cleaning / F10ing the tub and the stuff inside.


You also shouldn't leave crickets in with juvies.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> You also shouldn't leave crickets in with juvies.



I leave some left over softened pellets and greens in the tubs overnight, any "
rogue" crickets who escape the lizards have something other then soft parts of the lizards to nibble on overnight and if I happen to see any crickets roaming about in the tubs after the lizards have gone to sleep, I catch them and remove them.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> I leave some left over softened pellets and greens in the tubs overnight, any "
> rogue" crickets who escape the lizards have something other then soft parts of the lizards to nibble on overnight.



Fair enough but IMO it is better to feed them out of the tubs for a number of reasons. Most keepers don't leave the basking light on 24/7 so it isn't good to have them eating too late in the day, you can also monitor how much each one is eating and you don't get crickets left in the tub/enclosure. And again, you don't feed mealworms to juvies. And heat pads, what.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Fair enough but IMO it is better to feed them out of the tubs for a number of reasons. Most keepers don't leave the basking light on 24/7 so it isn't good to have them eating too late in the day, you can also monitor how much each one is eating and you don't get crickets left in the tub/enclosure. And again, you don't feed mealworms to juvies. And heat pads, what.


 No lights on in their tubs overnight , just their 7W heatpads (sandwiched between layers of tiles).


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> No lights on in their tubs overnight , just their 7W heatpads (sandwiched between layers of tiles).


Heatpads are not a good idea for beardies and again, they don't need constant heating at 37C 24/7. I know your beardies are older now but telling her to feed a skinny beardy mealworms is not good advise.


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## =bECS= (Apr 8, 2013)

If you want to feed mealworms to juvies, make sure they are small ones and crack their heads first so if swallowed whole they wont eat their way out


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## animal805 (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Heatpads are not a good idea for beardies and again, they don't need constant heating at 37C 24/7. I know your beardies are older now but telling her to feed a skinny beardy mealworms is not good advise.



Save your breath, there is no convincing him, he wont even set up a basking light.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Heatpads are not a good idea for beardies and again, they don't need constant heating at 37C 24/7. I know your beardies are older now but telling her to feed a skinny beardy mealworms is not good advise.


Their pads take up only about 1/3 the tub space, my beardies love them and often sleep all night on them, but also regularly sleep in the cool unheated area under their fake rock ledge.

It's their choice, and having access to a nice toasty heat pad helps them digest their 2nd live insect (crickets) meal of the day (they are only juvis and need feeding 2x per day).

I'll soon be testing some 35W dichrotic halogen lamps and imported fully ceramic RS-GU10 adapters, 50W is too hot for my tubs . If these give an acceptable temperature at the UV basking spot I'll use these during the day along with the existing heat pads and 13W UV10A10B CFBs over winter. 

They'll be in full size individual enclosures in spring with MVBs.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

=bECS= said:


> If you want to feed mealworms to juvies, make sure they are small ones and crack their heads first so if swallowed whole they wont eat their way out


....an urban myth.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

They need a basking spot, why don't you put them in an actual enclosure. Why are new keepers so cocky these days. You may be happy with your questionable techniques but you should refrain from giving advice until you actually know what your doing. Keeping a heat mat in a plastic tub regardless is a bad idea, aside from the fact it is for a basking lizard.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> ....an urban myth.


That may be an urban myth but the fact that they have little nutritional value and a very hard exoskeleton is not


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## Wally (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> Their pads take up only about 1/3 the tub space, my beardies love them and often sleep all night on them, but also regularly sleep in the cool unheated area under their fake rock ledge.
> 
> It's their choice, and having access to a nice toasty heat pad helps them digest their 2nd live insect (crickets) meal of the day (they are only juvis and need feeding 2x per day).
> 
> ...



Ianinoz
Rob
33s152e

I'll let you decide..........


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## =bECS= (Apr 8, 2013)

I have seen a juvie beardie that was fed on meal worms dead with the hole in its stomach...... explain that. 

It was my cousins and the only explanation we could come up with is the meal worms, unless theres a better one.



33s152e said:


> ....an urban myth.


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## Brodie (Apr 8, 2013)

Ive see it happen too Becs.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

I know of a clutch of Angleheads being dragged under the substrate and devoured by kingworms as well, they can be nasty. My little dragon species always grab the kingworms by the head and kill them before they eat them.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

Wally76 said:


> Ianinoz
> Rob
> 33s152e
> 
> I'll let you decide..........



I'm going with Ianinoz


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## Wally (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> I'm going with Ianinoz



I'll take any 3.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

=bECS= said:


> I have seen a juvie beardie that was fed on meal worms dead with the hole in its stomach...... explain that.
> 
> It was my cousins and the only explanation we could come up with is the meal worms, unless theres a better one.



More likely rogue (hiding) adult crickets had a go at him in his sleep. Those buggers can do serious damage to anything edible and soft including each other.


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## 33s152e (Apr 9, 2013)

class="wysiwyg_dashes" border="1"
|- class="wysiwyg_dashes_tr"
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" |
*Mealworm*

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" |
Ca/P
1:25​

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="7%" |
Protein
20.3%​

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="6%" |
Fat
12.7%​

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="6%" |
Fibre
1.7%​

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="6%" | 
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="6%" |
H20
62%​

| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="38%" | Low calcium, high phosphorus & fat, hard chitin shell
|-


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## 33s152e (Apr 9, 2013)

Mealworms - Not entirely empty calories , OK as treats.


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## =bECS= (Apr 9, 2013)

It was fed outside its enclosure in a separate tub, it was the meal worm plain and simple, and it seems I'm not the only one who's seen it...... 

This could go on forever..... but im not a noob, the dragon is one I bred and gave to him, then he followed someone elses advice instead of listening to me when I said exactly what I said here...... dont feed them mealworms, if you do feed the smaller ones and crush their heads

Why is it when people get young beardies everyones an expert? 
The amount of times i had someone call after getting one saying somethings wrong only to find out they followed either a pet shop or an overnight experts advice and the beardie had heat stroke, impaction or was too cold on only a heat mat... 



33s152e said:


> More likely rogue (hiding) adult crickets had a go at him in his sleep. Those buggers can do serious damage to anything edible and soft including each other.


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## Chris1 (Apr 9, 2013)

if a lizard isnt at the right temp for digesting i do believe its possible for worms to eat their way out, i only ever feed them freshly shed worms (soft and pure white) when they lizards are at optimal temps.

mealworms are like hot chips in my opinion, yummy, but pretty much empty calories.

superworms are especially nasty, they can eat a each other from the tail end all the way to the head and the few mms of head end is still very much alive.


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## Shelly13 (Apr 12, 2013)

Ok so by the looks of everyones comments. I definitely shouldn't feed mealworms? (Not that i was considering that option anyway because those things creep me out haha)
Now that they have been at my apartment and set up for around 2 weeks now with me constantly checking on them and feeding them and just stepping up my keeping skills they seem to be going a lot better. Still not really interested in their greens until i feed them it on my fingers. I actually made the vegetables in a blender (not so its impossible for them to eat but its alot smoother) and they seem to love that instead of chopped up chunks. Is that ok to be feeding to them? All i'm thinking is 'at least they are eating their vegetables'. 
They have been eating alot more crickets now, and seem to be putting on weight. I will invest in some scales that will actually read their weight though so i can definitely tell if they are.
I'm hoping that everything i'm doing is good so i can make sure they are happy and healthy.

Although one thing i have been noticing is the smaller bearded tends to scratch at the glass alot trying to escape it looks like. Is there a reason behind that? Usually once i turn the heat off it calms down so could it be the fact it is too hot? although the temperature is at 39 degrees?


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## Shelly13 (Apr 12, 2013)

oh.. and the smaller one just decided to eat a fly that was trapped in its enclosure. Is that bad?


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## 33s152e (Apr 12, 2013)

Shelly13 said:


> oh.. and the smaller one just decided to eat a fly that was trapped in its enclosure. Is that bad?


how would it harm him unless it has fly spray or surface spray on it ?

What do you think in on their diet in the wild ?


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## mad_at_arms (Apr 15, 2013)

Wally76 said:


> Ianinoz
> Rob
> 33s152e
> 
> I'll let you decide..........



Haha you have a knack for this, don't you Wally?

I should have picked up on this bit:



33s152e said:


> (sandwiched between layers of tiles).


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## Snakegirl55 (Apr 15, 2013)

=bECS= said:


> Try wriggling the greens around with a long pair of tongs so it looks like its 'alive' to them.
> 
> Depends on the size of crickets but enough to notice their bellies looking more rounded after a feed


Try dropping the veges in as that seems to get their attention and some harder veges bounce too so the lizards try and catch them. This works for me and seems to get them more interested that just still veges on a plate


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