# diy tank backround



## sphag (Dec 18, 2013)

hi guys im going to make a backround for my frog vivarium out of expanda foam. any body done this before that can point me in the right direction with it by giving me some tips. i want to try and find expanding pond sealent so then i will know its ok for my frogs, then i want to cover it with black silicon when its dries then cover it in coco peat.

Cheers
Mitch


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## dragondragon (Dec 19, 2013)

If you use render and pond sealer it might be easier to seal cause silicone is anoyying to work with the way your saying just white foam i cut it with a knife i heat up with a blow torch and even blow torch the surface to get some shape into it.


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## AussieBen (Dec 19, 2013)

Hi there Mitch, I have researched the hell out of this over the last few months and had a few small shots at it as a practice before starting the big job ahead. Have to agree with dragondragon, silicone is pain in the rear to work with, it smells terrible and takes a while for it to fully cure. I rang around for the black pond foam and here in S.A it was a ridiculous price ( i think they wanted roughly $70 a can ) and expander foam doesn't stretch to far. The good thing about the white foam though is that if you do decide to use the black silicone you will see where it is covered. You have the render / pond sealer option or the other option ( the one i am trying next ) is the titebond 3 / substrate slurry mix, titebond 3 is waterproof and as far as i have read works a bit better than the silicone ( but i haven't tried yet ) so don't take my word as gospel. 

And just a small tip that i learn t. if using cork bark and you spray the expander foam around it, it get swallowed pretty easy.

AussieBen


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## James_Scott (Dec 19, 2013)

AussieBen said:


> Hi there Mitch, I have researched the hell out of this over the last few months and had a few small shots at it as a practice before starting the big job ahead. Have to agree with dragondragon, silicone is pain in the rear to work with, it smells terrible and takes a while for it to fully cure. I rang around for the black pond foam and here in S.A it was a ridiculous price ( i think they wanted roughly $70 a can ) and expander foam doesn't stretch to far. The good thing about the white foam though is that if you do decide to use the black silicone you will see where it is covered. You have the render / pond sealer option or the other option ( the one i am trying next ) is the titebond 3 / substrate slurry mix, titebond 3 is waterproof and as far as i have read works a bit better than the silicone ( but i haven't tried yet ) so don't take my word as gospel.
> 
> And just a small tip that i learn t. if using cork bark and you spray the expander foam around it, it get swallowed pretty easy.
> 
> AussieBen



Most people use silicon over expanda foam then push peat moss into it. This works very well but will need some touching up which you can do with wood glue and peat moss when the silicon has cured.
Titebond 3 is usually used in sections of a waterfall or below the water level. You will find peat moss will come off in the water when only silicon is used.
I have a number of different tanks with this setup from coastal sandy setups to tropical and woodland forrests. It is well worth the effort but a lot of planning needs to go into it especially if you are intending on making a waterfall.


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## AussieBen (Dec 19, 2013)

James_Scott said:


> Most people use silicon over expanda foam then push peat moss into it. This works very well but will need some touching up which you can do with wood glue and peat moss when the silicon has cured.
> Titebond 3 is usually used in sections of a waterfall or below the water level. You will find peat moss will come off in the water when only silicon is used.
> I have a number of different tanks with this setup from coastal sandy setups to tropical and woodland forrests. It is well worth the effort but a lot of planning needs to go into it especially if you are intending on making a waterfall.



Just out of curiosity James_Scott can the titebond be painted on the expander foam and have peat moss pressed in similar to the silicone way? i thought i read that somewhere but i wasn't completely sure.

I wasn't aware you could touch up the silicone way with titebond either, that is heaps handy to know. Would love to see some pics of your tanks .

AussieBen


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## James_Scott (Dec 19, 2013)

I have never used titebond but have heard good things. Prior to titebond people were using pva wood glue mixed in with the moss and applied but it eventually turns the water milky and comes off. Titebond 2 had similar examples but this is all meant to be rectified with titebond 3.
I dont know where to get titebond 3 in Australia so I am yet to try it. I will post some more pictures after xmas. Im sure if you browse my postings you will see some.


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## AussieBen (Dec 19, 2013)

ok cool. i know Masters home and hardware have Titebond 3 for a really reasonable price but they won't do delivery on it, but if you head to the Titebond website they should have a list of Australian distributors.


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## sphag (Dec 20, 2013)

ahh this crap is driving me nuts. i just cant see it working, well not in the long run anyway. what other easy ways are there to creat a similar effect? i want touse the faom so i can stick pots in it to have plants on the wall. the setup im imaging has to has this or i think it will look ****ty. and yes there was going to be water running down it. tinking i might have to just use the faom backround that came with the exo terra tank and just work around it.. such a shame.


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## AussieBen (Dec 20, 2013)

sphag said:


> ahh this crap is driving me nuts. i just cant see it working, well not in the long run anyway. what other easy ways are there to creat a similar effect? i want touse the faom so i can stick pots in it to have plants on the wall. the setup im imaging has to has this or i think it will look ****ty. and yes there was going to be water running down it. tinking i might have to just use the faom backround that came with the exo terra tank and just work around it.. such a shame.



My advice Sphag, is not to let it beat you so quick, i am still scared out of my pants starting a big job, that's why i practice doing little stuff first. I made a second ledge for the kids hermit crabs and the misses and her old chook were laughing there heads of at me because it looked a disgrace to start, but once it was carved, siliconed and coco peat on it, it turned out pretty good.. ( HA HA, laugh it up guys at the hermit crabs :lol: ) and they didn't laugh to hard once it was done, but it did look like a monstrosity to start with.

I checked out some of James_scott's pics like he said and they look amazing, but i bet they didn't look like when he started the project though, but the end result is well worth it.

What size tank are you looking at doing ? the tanks i am doing are 2x2x3ft and still trying to work it out and have been for months, the only thing i have is the false floor, because i am like you, i want it look the part, proper background, live plants, led lighting, misting system, all the bells and whistles.

I hear you about the pot plants though, every time i have tried to put them in they always end up taking up to much room and poking out too much, but i know it can be done because people are doing it smaller tanks than what i am working with. I have only researched, but James_scott knows what he is on about, the results speak for themselves. but what i have figured is this.

1) only your imagination is what will restrict you.
2) there is pro's and con's to any of the methods that you try.
3) some methods are more expensive than others.
4) it will all look like crap until it starts getting carved and taking shape.
5) and the only way to properly learn is to have a crack at it and learn by trial and error.
6) by the time your finished, no doubt you will be happier than a pig in ( well you know ) and it will look 10x better than any background you can buy.

That's just my thoughts on it anyway... And i am not sure if i can mention it and you might have already done it, but check out Dendroboard if you haven't already, i drool over some of that stuff they create. And there is heaps of tutorials and build threads on there.

AussieBen


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## James_Scott (Dec 20, 2013)

AussieBen is right. It is well worth the effort. My first tank was a Keelback Vivarium. I put the foam on the wall and didn't carve it because I wanted a feel of roots growing. It still looked great, but the silicon does stick better if you carve it.
My second was a forest theme and I used 3 cans of expanda foam and 4 tubes of silicon with a lot of carving. I have found that putting pots into the foam is useless on the most part and you get better results just carving holes out when you have finished with the silicon and peat moss.
My latest skink enclosure was a simple foam background carved and coated with peat moss but left room for plants to cover more area. The results are excellent and seem to last a long time. I have a few more on the go, but hope to have a couple of walls of these display enclosures over time.
I will post construction picks of the few I am doing soon.


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## dragondragon (Dec 21, 2013)

So do you do all your tanks like the way the op is saying James if so you need to do build thread next time you do one you make some awesome enclosures


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## pinefamily (Dec 21, 2013)

When using expanda foam, use gloves. Trust me on that one......


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## sphag (Dec 22, 2013)

there has to be something to use other then silicon, some thing you can just apply with a paint brush then chuck your coco peat on? like resin or something? its a 3x2 ft backround and i dont really wanna have to get silicon in everyone of those tiny little gaps and crevaces. i looked into spray can adhesives but i think its to toxic.


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## pinefamily (Dec 22, 2013)

Like Dragondragon said above, render or pondsealer (probably render), mixed with some PVA glue. Slap it on with a paint brush, and away you go.


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## AussieBen (Dec 22, 2013)

As far as i am aware Sphag the render option goes something like this.

1) buy a bag of acrylic render ( Hardware shop or bunno's should have it ) 
2) create your background out of the foam / expander foam
3) mix up render with some pva glue mixed in there and start coating ( starting with a runny sort of coat and get thicker with every coat applied to after that, let render dry between coats. what this allows is, with the first coat being a little runny, can be applied with a paint brush and also gets right into the nooks and crannys and then as the coats get thicker it starts hardening and getting stronger. )
4) you can then get acrylic paints and the artsy fartsy side stuff from bunnos to and then start painting it to your desired look. 
4) once done and dried, thats when the pond sealer will come into it, that seals and as far as i am aware waterproofs it. The one i have heard of i think is a brand called Crommelins pond tite and there is another one to, but i can't remember the name, both are at bunnos though. Here is a couple links that might clear some stuff up.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/background-help-202698/
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/diy-product-knowledge-189153/
Dendroboard

That should give you some idea's. i haven't done a render background but if you want it to be painted on i think this way is the way to go.

AussieBen


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## pinefamily (Dec 22, 2013)

View attachment 302642

This is the background we did for our bredli. It was our first attempt, but I think it came out pretty good in the end. Expanda foam sprayed onto a sheet of polystyrene, then several coats of render with a colour added. Then we brushed on a couple of coats of pondsealer from Bunnings. The sides are medium density polystyrene burned with a handheld blowtorch, and painted and sealed.
Our Bunnings has pondsealer, and we picked up pondtite from a garden place. Same stuff, but pondtite is a little less shiny.


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## sphag (Dec 22, 2013)

the attachment isnt working for me mate, im very excited to see it though.
Ben, after reading one of those links you gave, i think liquid sandstone may be the way to go?? expand foam, then just coat it with liquid sandstone? or maybe a quik render before the liquid sandstone is added? likeing the idea of a the liquid sandstone, especially if i can just chuck it on straight over the foam. ill seel it up with some pondite. Mitch


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## sphag (Dec 23, 2013)

so im going to go to bunnings tomorrow after work so i can make a start on this backround, do you guys reckon acrylic render then liquid sandstone over the top is the way to go? maybe i can put some dye in with the liquid sandtone to get the right colour or get some acrylic paints happening ontop of it once its dry. cheers


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## pinefamily (Dec 23, 2013)

Depends on how much you want to spend. You can get paints and oxide tints cheaper than the liquid sandstone. Either paint over the render or mix a bit in with it. I'll check the attachment when I get home. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## sphag (Dec 23, 2013)

i reckon the liquid sandstone would look much more natural. but then the colour turns me away. paints ok but it doesnt have that texture. its a rainforest them (red eyed tree frogs) so im still thinking about the coco peat i just dont want to have to spread silicone over the hole thing. ill have another look over everyones posts and see what my other options where hah


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## sphag (Dec 23, 2013)

so i had a good read up about titebond 3 and i think this is the way to go.. cant make up my mind.. i think ill do titebond with coco over the top, then a pond sealer. i got heaps and heaps of driftwood to add into it that can be sticking out, make it real 3d.


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## sphag (Dec 23, 2013)

here we go boys | GLUES | GLUE LIST | Gorilla Wood Glue


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## dragondragon (Dec 23, 2013)

Water resistant and water proof are two different things I saw that the other day when I was in masters


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## pinefamily (Dec 24, 2013)

Let's try the attachment thing again.
View attachment 302775


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## pinefamily (Dec 24, 2013)

Still didn't work. Bugger!


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## AussieBen (Dec 27, 2013)

Did you get a start on it Sphag? if you did how is it looking ?


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## sphag (Dec 28, 2013)

I decided against making my own backround due to the level of work and time it requires and how little time I have so I left it for a later date but I set up on awesome tank anyway, will chuck up a photo tonight.


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## sphag (Jan 1, 2014)

View attachment 303233
here is a photo of the tank I'm doing this from a tablet so not sure if will be successful..tank looks great though the photo won't to it justice. there is a waterfall in the left corner.. I plumed thr tubing behind the background, the pump sitts under the hydroton which holds up the land section.. the red eyes have been mating in there so I think they like it.. its a big tank for them like 3ft by 2ft exo Terra. but i don't know if there breeding is successful cause i know nothing about it' will have to post something about that 
View attachment 303233
View attachment 303233


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