# ID? Skink from Kanagra Walls, Blue Mountains.



## Gruni (Nov 11, 2014)

*ID? Skink from Kanangra Walls, Blue Mountains.*

Was at Kanangra Walls recently in some fairly rough patches and found a few nice snake and lizard specimens but having trouble getting an ID on this fella. It was suggested that it was a Cunningham Skink (Egernia cunninghami) but the tail doesn't look right to me as the ones I have seen always have the small spikes.












Unlike these two specimens which were in the New England, the pretty one at Mt Yarrowyck and the drab one in Inverell...





















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I also found a 'black' snake up on the plateau, I couldn't make out any signs of red on the belly and he wouldn't show his head. I don't really expect an ID from these two pics but he was in and out of the leaf matter and a better pic wasn't an option. The ranger suggested a juvenile Tiger as the Red Belly Blacks are generally found down in the valleys of Kanangra-Boyd NP. All up he was a bit over 2ft and about an inch wide, black and very shiny.


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## AllThingsReptile (Nov 11, 2014)

The Skink looks like an Eastern Crevice Skink (Egernia Mcpheei)
Because of location/distribution, Head shape, Tail shape, and the fact it was found in a crevice


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## Gruni (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks for that.

As for the snake I just zoomed in on my original high rez image and as I thought the scales where the belly starts are pretty much white rather than the red or pink I've seen on RBB's.


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## baker (Nov 11, 2014)

Its an _Egernia saxtilis, _Black rock skink. Kanagara falls are to far south for _Egernia mcpheei_. It is right in the distribution of _E. saxtilis._ Head shape, body shape, colouration, habitat and distribution point to _E. saxtilis._
The snake you found is a red belly _Pseudechis porphyriacus. _The distinguishing red flanking can just be seen on the top image. Its not bright but it is present. Red bellies vary quite a bit in how red the side actually, can be any where from bright red through to pale pink close to white.
Cheers Cameron


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 11, 2014)

AllThingsReptile said:


> The Skink looks like an Eastern Crevice Skink (Egernia Mcpheei)
> Because of location/distribution, Head shape, Tail shape, and the fact it was found in a crevice



Hate to put a dent in your location theory but according to Harold Cogger's latest (Reptiles and Amphibians 7th ed) distribution is "coastal NSW,north of Hunter River to south-eastern Qld";whereas Kanangra Walls is near Oberon 200 km southwest of Sydney although I do agree it looks similar,but I think it is a black rock skink which I have caught there.


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## GBWhite (Nov 11, 2014)

Cameron is right Joerg, it's Egernia saxatilis - Black Rock Skink. The white upper lip gives it away. 

It's a bit hard to tell from the pic and I can't blow it up but believe it might just be a Highland Copperhead (Austrelaps ramsayi). I don't know if it's just me but I think you can see its head under the log and it appears to have the typical white barring on the lip. I did a lot of collecting around that area when I was younger and caught heaps of both Copperheads and RBB's. The Copperheads are usually jet black with a cream or whitish edge on the belly and the RBB's in that area have a very distinct bright red belly.


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## Gruni (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks George, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'll have a closer look at the high res image and try to make out it's head, on the day I was sure that the side scales looked like they had no pink to them at all and was fairly sure it wasn't an RBB but I wasn't about to disturb it with a stick to get a better view and the guys I was with were nervous enough that I was getting so close to have good look at it. :lol:

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Here's the part of the picture you were talking about George, this is right under the log about where the head should be and there is a lot of white scales to be seen.


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## eipper (Nov 11, 2014)

Egernia saxatilis intermedia
Austrelaps ramsayi


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## GBWhite (Nov 11, 2014)

Not black enough to be intermedia Scott.


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## Gruni (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks Eipper, you were the other person I was waiting on. 

Do you mind sharing why you are confident on the ID of the A. ramsayi? I was expecting people to say the pic wasn't clear enough to make a good call.


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## zack13 (Nov 12, 2014)

I just found about 4 copperheads in that area on a mates farm and none of them were black. Not saying that isn't one, though none that I found in that area looked like that.


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## Gruni (Nov 13, 2014)

If you read the description for them they can vary significantly in colouring, as can brown and tiger snakes.

Given the extensive background George has, and the fact I have never caught him out on an ID, I am happy between him and Scott that it is what they say.


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## jase75 (Nov 13, 2014)

All the Copperheads I have Seen up on the plateau have been darker like the one in the pic. Also Tigers Browns and White Lipped snakes up there. I have never seen red belly blacks up there, they are usually around the rivers and creeks.


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## eipper (Nov 13, 2014)

George,

It has to be intermedia- all populations of saxatilis other than those at the Warrumbungles are intermedia.

Gruni,
In the lower pic (on my screen in a straight line above (title in the edit comments) You can see the lower lateral/ edge of ventrals and that is clearly copperhead- as there are no superbus or labialis anywhere near the Blue Mts I will run with ramsayi. The colour of the snake is quite matted- straight away ruling out shiny Pseudechis and Cryptophis.


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## GBWhite (Nov 13, 2014)

Sorry Scott, my bad, I thought it was the other way around and saxatilis were those outside the Warrumbungles. I've got all my reference books packed away ready for the big move back to the coast to annoy farma.


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