# 75% Bredls Jaguar



## Yasser (Feb 16, 2009)

Was reading a previous thread on ugly Bredls Jags. I have Bredls Jags I've hatched that would make you eyes bleed....and I am not bragging lol.

Pictured are a couple of 75% Bredls Jaguars hatched here....I produced my own 50% generation and then this 75% Bredls generation....quite the departure from other Jaguar crosses. All of the babies from this clutch are very unique. 

Yasser


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 16, 2009)

Nice animals Yasser, I love the colour/Pattern on the last third of the animal in the second picture


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## Pike01 (Feb 16, 2009)

Wheres the pics of the nice ones?


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## smeejason (Feb 16, 2009)

not bleeding but watering from laughing..........


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## Parko (Feb 16, 2009)

You can't see the nice ones pike cause they make your eyes bleed, remember?


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## arbok (Feb 16, 2009)

i found the nice ones!

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/the-bredli-threadly-101618


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## redbellybite (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser have you heard of the song by the vapours"Turning Japanese".?........me thinks you may be just doing that ....


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## stuartandconnie (Feb 16, 2009)

The future of snakes in aussie


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## paleoherp (Feb 16, 2009)

dose the USA actually have anything left that isn't totally screwed up, why would you want that when you could have this.


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## paleoherp (Feb 16, 2009)

stuartandconnie said:


> The future of snakes in aussie



Not at my house :evil:


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## missllama (Feb 16, 2009)

im sorry  
but my eyes arnt bleeding...
deffinatly not stunning what so ever 

jmo tho... im sure there are others that would like them...

paleoherp... now that pic is stunning


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## herpkeeper (Feb 16, 2009)

i'd rather have a nice Darwin or Bredli over that rubbish any day !


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## arbok (Feb 16, 2009)

stuartandconnie said:


> The future of snakes *food* in aussie


 
:shock:


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## disasterpiece7.0 (Feb 16, 2009)

You do realise that no bredli x jag will ever turn out red? no matter how much bredli is in it, and even when there is 87% bredli jags etc they'll have no more red and less jaguar pattern.......

I do really like jags, but I don't see what everones obsession with crossing bredli is.


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## Kersten (Feb 16, 2009)

disasterpiece7.0 said:


> ....but I don't see what everones obsession with crossing bredli is.


It's like the old saying about the dog and his....

You get where I'm going here


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## MrSpike (Feb 16, 2009)

It's great to see the good old Aussie narrow mindedness step up to the plate.

Nice snakes Yasser, got any pics of the sire and the dam?

Beautiful, but not for me...


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## missllama (Feb 16, 2009)

MrSpike said:


> It's great to see the good old Aussie narrow mindedness step up to the plate.
> 
> Nice snakes Yasser, got any pics of the sire and the dam?
> 
> Beautiful, but not for me...




i dont think im being narrow mindded.. i just cant see anything attractive about it besides the fact its a snake all snakes are beautiful in ways but that has no colour on it that i find beautiful nothing really about it that i find stunning. the pure pythons have such amazing colours etc and i dont no why people would want to take that away from them there so much more beautiful when there pure


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## redbellybite (Feb 16, 2009)

missllamathuen said:


> i dont think im being narrow mindded.. i just cant see anything attractive about it besides the fact its a snake all snakes are beautiful in ways but that has no colour on it that i find beautiful nothing really about it that i find stunning. the pure pythons have such amazing colours etc and i dont no why people would want to take that away from them there so much more beautiful when there pure


 lama some people find "mules" attractive .....Iam a believer in either a horse or a donkey


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## missllama (Feb 16, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> lama some people find "mules" attractive .....Iam a believer in either a horse or a donkey



yes lol i love horses and i love donkeys but a cross would be rather stupid and disturbing lol


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## Bax155 (Feb 16, 2009)

*bangs head against wall* WHY WHY WHY?? They are ordinary and have nothing over a normal untampered Bredli as for Jags there just problem riddin and Jungle wanna be's!! give me a Jungle or Bredli any day!!


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## JasonL (Feb 16, 2009)

I'd agree with the general consencus so far ..with the urgument of cross breeding aside, I'd much rather look at a nice light coloured M. bredli.


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## lynfrog (Feb 16, 2009)

they are beautiful looking snakes! 
i love the markings. thanks for posting the pics- great to see what others are doing elsewhere.


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## Pineapplekitten (Feb 16, 2009)

> dose the USA actually have anything left that isn't totally screwed up, why would you want that when you could have this.
> Attached Thumbnails


 
i agree, the pure bredli both classic and hypo are much nicer.


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## Pineapplekitten (Feb 16, 2009)

> It's great to see the good old Aussie narrow mindedness step up to the plate.


 
that comment is just plain annoying and silly..


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## Yasser (Feb 16, 2009)

You just proved his point with that comment. Annoying? 
Confucious once said "sometimes the truth, it hurts.":lol:

Yasser


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## herpkeeper (Feb 16, 2009)

with the variety of stunning naturally occuring "morphs" (for want of a better word) being produced these days, i like so many other's can not see the positive side to hybridizing sub species. For every two nice looking hybrids produced, there are twenty "fuggly" clutch mates.......... where do they end up ??? what are they being sold as ? & what would 70 percent of people do, tell you the truth or take your money ??? leave the mongrel bred hybrids where they belong, OVER SEA's


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## Kyro (Feb 16, 2009)

I think they just look drab & washed out, quite boring really


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## Kersten (Feb 16, 2009)

A difference of opinion isn't narrow mindedness :lol: Nor does expressing annoyance at the ridiculousness of the assumption that a differing opinion is narrow mindedness in fact prove the narrow minded tag to be true  Especially not when the person with the differing opinion is not the person expressing annoyance at the silliness of the tag


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## redbellybite (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser said:


> You just proved his point with that comment. Annoying?
> Confucious once said "sometimes the truth, it hurts.":lol:
> 
> Yasser


 confucious also say "man who have hand on it must keep small package":lol::lol:


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## cris (Feb 16, 2009)

herpkeeper said:


> with the variety of stunning naturally occuring "morphs" (for want of a better word) being produced these days, i like so many other's can not see the positive side to hybridizing sub species. For every two nice looking hybrids produced, there are twenty "fuggly" clutch mates.......... where do they end up ??? what are they being sold as ? & what would 70 percent of people do, tell you the truth or take your money ??? leave the mongrel bred hybrids where they belong, OVER SEA's



Its because of the popularity "morphs" you mention that many of these crossbreedings happen, just think about how albino darwin carpets have been crossed with most other carpets here in Australia. Pure bred snakes can look very boring and dull its not just hybrids. IMO if you are breeding pythons to look weird and unatural you might as well hybridise them.

Anyway i think the jag bredli look very boring, maybe they will colour up nicely?


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Chris
Please show us an example of an unnatural looking line bred locality pure Australian python.


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## cris (Feb 16, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Chris
> Please show us an example of an unnatural looking line bred locality pure Australian python.



I would consider albinos to fit in that category, although they do occur naturally they are heavily selected against due to looking extremely obvious to predators. I know many have a differant opinion about this sort of thing and i dont expect others to look at it the same way i do. I personally see the breeding of snakes with mutations that would be deleterious in the wild as the same sort of thing as breeding hybrids, just as the Qld laws try to. JMO i dont expect everyone to share it.


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## megrim (Feb 16, 2009)

cris said:


> I would consider albinos to fit in that category, although they do occur naturally they are heavily selected against due to looking extremely obvious to predators. I know many have a differant opinion about this sort of thing and i dont expect others to look at it the same way i do. I personally see the breeding of snakes with mutations that would be deleterious in the wild as the same sort of thing as breeding hybrids, just as the Qld laws try to. JMO i dont expect everyone to share it.



I think I see where you're coming from on this. Pretending that heavily line-bred 'morphs' are representative in any way of wild populations is wishful thinking at best.
Humans are sometimes born with extra digits, or albino colouring..... Doesn't suddenly make it the 'standard' for the breed.


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## junglepython2 (Feb 16, 2009)

At the end of the day an albino differs from a typical wild type snake by one single gene, the same can't be said for a hybrid.


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

You can't have your argument both ways Chris, using the albino that you mentioned.
It is a natural in the wild occurrence, simple as that (as you admit).
I am sure I don’t have to remind you that an opinion is irrelevant to what is an actual fact.
Have another try, as previously requested (if possible of course) I am generally interested in seeing pictures of line bred locale pure pythons that look unnatural (not likely to ever look like a specimen naturally from the wild )


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## indicus (Feb 16, 2009)

cris said:


> Its because of the popularity "morphs" you mention that many of these crossbreedings happen, just think about how albino darwin carpets have been crossed with most other carpets here in Australia. Pure bred snakes can look very boring and dull its not just hybrids. IMO if you are breeding pythons to look weird and unatural you might as well hybridise them.
> 
> Anyway i think the jag bredli look very boring, maybe they will colour up nicely?



Unless you put a albino Darwin over another Darwin; what have you achieved?
....another hybrid; no worse then the backward efforts of those crossing any other species.
A lot of readers really don't understand the complexities of locality form pythons found in NQ;
myself included; even though I've been going bush for years...it takes more then the odd excursion up this way.
The difference is some of us have done quite a lot of field work
and have the understanding; locality forms; such as jungles; can differ considerably from one area to another....
It may be only as far as the next vally.
In any given locality; you'll see oddities; some nice; others not (unnatural? weird?)...not at all; just seldom seen.
On that note; inbreeding regularly happens in the wild....hence some of these oddities.
For example; look at the home range of a few breeding pairs of jungles that inhabitat an old shed.
No offence intended Chris...

Hey Spit fire, yeah one of the animals you posted looks ok; but the truth is, very average compared to some of locality animals we have; just my opinion of course...either way; thanks for the pictures; keep trying mate


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser is being kind enough to show us some of his animals, keep in mind that he lives in the U.S and all you people want to do is bag his animals and call them ugly.
GROW UP PEOPLE!!!! If you don`t like them Don`t reply! The majority of you seem so miserable im surprised you havn`t thought about putting a rope around your necks yet!


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## indicus (Feb 16, 2009)

Geck82 said:


> Yasser is being kind enough to show us some of his animals, keep in mind that he lives in the U.S and all you people want to do is bag his animals and call them ugly.
> GROW UP PEOPLE!!!! If you don`t like them Don`t reply! The majority of you seem so miserable im surprised you havn`t thought about putting a rope around your necks yet!



Haha...your correct Geck82; I'm sure most of us are interested to see what he and others are producing
overseas....not bagging his animals at all mate; just giving an opinion; some of which are good; some not so good. I'm off to find some rope...miserable old so and so that I am


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## bump73 (Feb 16, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Chris
> Please show us an example of an unnatural looking line bred locality pure Australian python.


 
What about patternless childrens pythons????

Ben

EDIT: Though i doubt they are locality pure...oops


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## ClareB (Feb 16, 2009)

Interesting looking snake but not my cup of tea. I prefer a good hypo or a nice brick red classic.


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Ben
What about the pattern less childreni? They have been seen in the wild by many people, even by two people participating in this thread right now, they aren't that uncommon.


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## cris (Feb 16, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> You can't have your argument both ways Chris, using the albino that you mentioned.
> It is a natural in the wild occurrence, simple as that (as you admit).
> I am sure I don’t have to remind you that an opinion is irrelevant to what is an actual fact.
> Have another try, as previously requested (if possible of course) I am generally interested in seeing pictures of line bred locale pure pythons that look unnatural (not likely to ever look like a specimen naturally from the wild )



Well you can also argue that hybrids occur naturally, who can say without any doubt that a carpet python has never ever bred with a GTP in the wild. There is constant hybridisation in many wild pythons, just as inbreeding will also occur. Goldfish are a good example to look at, they are pure but due to many generations of selected breeding many of them are hardly natural wildtype. Im not aware of any pure line bred pythons that are like this yet, but every generation they potentially get further and further away from the natural type. Breeding hybrids is just a much quicker way of messing things up.


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## bump73 (Feb 16, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Ben
> What about the pattern less childreni? They have been seen in the wild by many people, even by two people participating in this thread right now, they aren't that uncommon.


 
Sweet.. Thanks for that info

Ben


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## SnakePower (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser, some stunning animals you produce as always! 

On the subject of Bredli Jags, I personally find the 50%BredliJags to be more attractive animals than the 75% animals. I think the higher the the Bredli percentage the closer to the normal type bredli they become and as a result they are loosing the Jag qualities.

To me the 50% animals stand out in comparison. I have said this before on another forum, but I think the 75% look similar to some of the higher quality hypo Bredli being produced here in Oz. I understand the ideas you guys over there have breeding Jags into many other species and subspeies, but once the Jag traits start getting lost, is it not going backwards in your projects objectives??

I really love hypo Bredli, classics too, but I also appreciate some of the jag crosses being produced overseas. Crosses personally are not my thing, but I can still appreciate a good looking snake! After all it is seeing and appreciating the beauty in reptiles that is supposed to be what we all as herpers have in common. But at some stage why not pair a 50% to another 50% rather than further dilute the Jag gene with another generation of breeding it out? 

I love Jags, no doubt about it, that's why we are trying to breed animals similar with projects such as our RP Prossies... but at some stage it would be nice to try and work further on breeding better Jags, not consistantly further breeding them out by back crossing them. I don't understand that point...


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## QldMorelias (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser! Welcome, though I must warn you it's a tough crowd your playing too. Believe me. 
Please stick around though. You have more experience on this topic than anyone in Australia, and I for one am keen to hear your thoughts. Some of the members may get a little over excited at times, but the future of our nation is at stake. They want to keep things (kind of )pure for our children, and our childrens children.
Is it true that only 5% of hybrids are good looking and all the others need to be frozen?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Feb 16, 2009)

You are such a sarcastic bugger, QLdMorelias. Love it though. Thanks for keeping it up beat mate. Im so sick of all the wildlife warriors!! That drag a good topic into the ground.


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## QldMorelias (Feb 16, 2009)

It does get a bit repetitive, but then again so do I.
I've read alot of what Yasser has done, and though I don't agree with all of it he does know his stuff. On the "carpet crosses" debate he's someone worth listening too. 
And then after you listen you can ridicule him till he never shows his face round these here parts again.


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## Australis (Feb 16, 2009)

MrSpike said:


> It's great to see the good old Aussie narrow mindedness step up to the plate.
> 
> Nice snakes Yasser, got any pics of the *sire and the dam?*
> 
> Beautiful, but not for me...



Great to see another seppo in the making! :lol:


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## indicus (Feb 16, 2009)

Cordylus said:


> You are such a sarcastic bugger, QLdMorelias. Love it though. Thanks for keeping it up beat mate. Im so sick of all the wildlife warriors!! That drag a good topic into the ground.



Nip!.. Pow!.. Zap!...Bagman!!!
The only thing missing from that avatar is the 'cape' now :lol:

All the wildlife warriors; good stuff; Mr Irwin would be proud 

What happens overseas; doesn't effect our wildlife...
And yes; some of us do appreciate those; such as 'Spit Fire' posting.
I'm sure all of us can gain some insight in morelia genetic's;
listening to what breeders like himself have to offer...

However the hybridisation of species in Australia;
can certainly have an effect on our locality forms; regardless.
Like yourself Cordylus; we 'warriors' as you refer to us :lol:
are just as sick of those keepers; that skilfully avoid answering any questions regarding how we;
as a community can adequately control hybrid species and their impact within the hobby.
Look back through some recent threads; if your memory fails you... 
Forgive me in thinking; they care not; and wish to take no responsibility for their actions.
Tit for tat; who needs it...suggestion; take a 'minute'
Now ask yourself; what can we as 'responsible' keepers; do to ensure that 'pure' lines remain pure?
I've thought about it; and haven't a clue; other then avoiding hybrids full stop.


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## gravitation (Feb 16, 2009)

indicus said:


> Like yourself Cordylus; we 'warriors' as you refer to us :lol:
> are just as sick of those keepers; that skilfully avoid answering any questions regarding how we;
> as a community can adequately control hybrid species and their impact within the hobby.
> Look back through some recent threads; if your memory fails you...
> ...




In a nutshell.


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## taylor111 (Feb 16, 2009)

how did they make jags anyway


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## Pythonking (Feb 16, 2009)

couldn't you afford a normal one yasser?


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## AUSGECKO (Feb 16, 2009)

indicus said:


> Haha...your correct Geck82; I'm sure most of us are interested to see what he and others are producing
> overseas....not bagging his animals at all mate; just giving an opinion; some of which are good; some not so good. I'm off to find some rope...miserable old so and so that I am


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## QldMorelias (Feb 16, 2009)

indicus said:


> Nip!.. Pow!.. Zap!...Bagman!!!
> The only thing missing from that avatar is the 'cape' now :lol:
> However the hybridisation of species in Australia;
> can certainly have an effect on our locality forms; regardless.
> ...


"

.......Your never going to stop people crossing snakes. For you, It may be a nice idea but it's never going to happen. If we can all agree on that point, the next question, and the real question is how do we regulate it.
If we keep skipping back to the "yeah but ya shouldn't do it" line there will never be a solution.
So we at QldMorelias have spent alot of time in the lab trying to come up with a solution to your question.

"what can we as 'responsible' keepers; do to ensure that 'pure' lines remain pure?
I've thought about it; and haven't a clue; "

The answer my friends is to live and let live. People are going to cross their carpets with or without the all important stamp of approval from APS members. To keep lines pure those who do cross their carpets will need to feel they can be open about it without being flamed by the purists.
So purists repeat after me " I wouldn't buy them, I don't like crosses, but each to their own" 
If you can memorise that simple little line those who do go down the designer path won't need to palm them off as something else,.. if that's what's happening. As so many of these comments show there is room for both. And people if you want to keep some of your animals locale specific and some designer animals, well that's ok too.


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## arbok (Feb 16, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> confucious also say "man who have hand on it must keep small package":lol::lol:





QldMorelias said:


> Yasser! Welcome, though I must warn you it's a understanding pleasant crowd your playing too. Believe me.
> Please *go away *though. You are more of *an jack*** *on this topic than anyone in Australia, and I for one am *not *keen to hear your thoughts. Some of the members may get a little over excited at times, but the future of our nation is at stake. They want to keep things pure for our children, and our childrens children.
> Is it true that *no* hybrids are good looking and *all* need to be frozen?



finally... were getting somewere


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## QldMorelias (Feb 16, 2009)

Wow arbok. Guess I'm not the only comic genius here. That's gold....who writes your material? 

If I left it at that it would be classed as off topic and deleated,.., so...freedom of choice people. If you live in a state where it's legal ..cross your socks off.!!
Yasser I know your sleeping now pal, but when you wake up stick around. We like you.
(underbelly's starting!)


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Feb 16, 2009)

i cant see a nice snake...they look ****ty imo


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## Barno111 (Feb 16, 2009)

i cant believe american's! People from the US of A will be coming over to australia looking for australian snakes that they have never ever seen before! Even though people will be saying they have seen aussie snakes! But we all know that they will have never seen a pure blood bredli or jungle!


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## Retic (Feb 16, 2009)

What a ridiculous post.


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## PimmsPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

QldMorelias said:


> Yasser! Welcome, though I must warn you it's a tough crowd your playing too. Believe me.
> Please stick around though. You have more experience on this topic than anyone in Australia, and I for one am keen to hear your thoughts. Some of the members may get a little over excited at times, but the future of our nation is at stake. They want to keep things (kind of )pure for our children, and our childrens children.
> Is it true that only 5% of hybrids are good looking and all the others need to be frozen?



the knee pads have been strapped on.


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Cordylus and Qldmorelia, could you please refresh my memory here. Do you support the crossing breeding in a private capacity of different species, sub-species or both?


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## Nagraj (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm not a fan of crossing subspecies in Australia but please, the aesthetics argument really is stupid. They are some great looking snakes and if they were purely line bred they would be on *everyones* wish list.

And for those using the what's wrong with pure argument, well nothing. But you can have great looking Bredli, great looking Jungles aaaand the third option of great looking BrunglesTM which is why people do it.


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## ReptilianGuy (Feb 16, 2009)

send em over so we can feed em to our black snakes and bhp's!!!!


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## PilbaraPythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Some of them do indeed look spectacular and yes, many purists do not help their credibility by claiming otherwise.


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## fraser888 (Feb 16, 2009)

Nice lookers, but cross breeding isnt great


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## Nagraj (Feb 16, 2009)

I too would like to see a whole clutch and the percentage of 'average' looking animals within it.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 16, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Some of them do indeed look spectacular and yes, many purists do not help their credibility by claiming otherwise.



As opposed to some hybridisers with no name and a bag on their head Dave?


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## QldMorelias (Feb 16, 2009)

HI Dave,
Personally I'm ok with crossing sub species, but don't really get into crossing species. I think the differences between subs isn't all that great and consider them just colour morphs of the same thing.
Though if that's what your into and the laws in your state allow you to cross species good luck and all the best, but I'm not a buyer.


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## Pandora Pythons (Feb 16, 2009)

Geck82 said:


> Yasser is being kind enough to show us some of his animals, keep in mind that he lives in the U.S and all you people want to do is bag his animals and call them ugly.
> GROW UP PEOPLE!!!! If you don`t like them Don`t reply! The majority of you seem so miserable im surprised you havn`t thought about putting a rope around your necks yet!


 

Totally agree with ya Geck82...well said!

And Yasser, fantastic animals mate, I envy what you do over there and only wish I could be apart of it. And for the halfwits that have made negative comments...only shows how miserable & jealous you are because you can't produce even half an animal like that!

Phewww, that feels better


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## sarah_m (Feb 16, 2009)

QldMorelias said:


> Yasser! Welcome, though I must warn you it's a tough crowd your playing too. Believe me.
> Please stick around though. You have more experience on this topic than anyone in Australia, and I for one am keen to hear your thoughts. Some of the members may get a little over excited at times, but the future of our nation is at stake. They want to keep things (kind of )pure for our children, and our childrens children.
> Is it true that only 5% of hybrids are good looking and all the others need to be frozen?


I dont understand why any snake would be frozen reguardless of weather it is considered good looking or not.
People dont freeze their kids if they come out ugly


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## herpkeeper (Feb 16, 2009)

just as a matter of personal interest, how many of you who support cross breeding have any more than five years experience under your belts ??? i have not come across one long term keeper who support's cross breeding yet..........


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## funcouple (Feb 16, 2009)

Yasser.. my eyes arent bleeding and the only unique thing i see is butt ugly


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## krefft (Feb 16, 2009)

I've been keeping for over 20 years and I'm ok with it. I've plenty of friends who have been keeping longer than that and also don't see it as a big issue, but they can't be bothered getting on here and trying to change anyones mind. I think you may be suprised by some of the keepers who think we (you) are making a big deal over nothing


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## gravitation (Feb 16, 2009)

sarah_m said:


> I dont understand why any snake would be frozen reguardless of weather it is considered good looking or not.
> People dont freeze their kids if they come out ugly



Guess it has ALOT to do with money, and it would have to, i can't see any other reason for breeding such snakes with eachother apart from greed and as i think lector pointed out, apparently people overseas are willing to pay for these things.

If that's true shows how much actually 'breeding' means to them, more like let's make a bigger buck.



sitapythons said:


> only shows how miserable & jealous you are because you can't produce even half an animal like that



It's not that we can't, it's that we don't want to tamper with what we should'nt *pet pet*

Even if they were pure and looked like that i still would'nt go them, best looking pythons to me are olives, gtps, and carinata's.


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## herpkeeper (Feb 16, 2009)

i've generally found that the only people who are for this sort of thing are the ones who have nothing even remotely nice in their collection LOL


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## indicus (Feb 16, 2009)

QldMorelias said:


> "
> 
> .......Your never going to stop people crossing snakes. For you, It may be a nice idea but it's never going to happen. If we can all agree on that point, the next question, and the real question is how do we regulate it.
> If we keep skipping back to the "yeah but ya shouldn't do it" line there will never be a solution.
> ...



After reading your 'enlighting' reply ...thanks  I agree; we wont stop it...
Doesn't mean we'll support it


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## cris (Feb 16, 2009)

krefft said:


> I've been keeping for over 20 years and I'm ok with it. I've plenty of friends who have been keeping longer than that and also don't see it as a big issue, but they can't be bothered getting on here and trying to change anyones mind. I think you may be suprised by some of the keepers who think we (you) are making a big deal over nothing



Yes i would agree with them its a storm in a tea cup. Still it is often quite amusing what some of stuff ppl come up with, the most funny is when ppl say hybrids cant look good or when ppl dont realise that current taxonomy is most likely incorect and many names will change. I wonder how many would change their stance if the eastern carpets were lumped together, it would be quite funny i think, especially with those who are ignorant enough to think crossing something with the same name cant be an unatural hybrid. Even more funny are those that think some stupid scaleless, tripple sunset swirl hypomelanistic snake is somehow better than a hybrid and will be suitable for release to replenish wild populations.


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## indicus (Feb 17, 2009)

cris said:


> Yes i would agree with them its a storm in a tea cup. Still it is often quite amusing what some of stuff ppl come up with, the most funny is when ppl say hybrids cant look good or when ppl dont realise that current taxonomy is most likely incorect and many names will change. I wonder how many would change their stance if the eastern carpets were lumped together, it would be quite funny i think, especially with those who are ignorant enough to think crossing something with the same name cant be an unatural hybrid. Even more funny are those that think some stupid scaleless, tripple sunset swirl hypomelanistic snake is somehow better than a hybrid and will be suitable for release to replenish wild populations.



Chris I think you'll also find there's quite a lot of old time keepers that don't agree with it;
one quoted to me today 'fools that haven't a clue'...some of these keepers don't even use computers;
let alone get on APS.
Not wanting to sound rude; but I suggest you put some time in the field; it may very well help you gain a better understanding; as to knowing what your talking about.


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## horto28 (Feb 17, 2009)

sorry mate although they are real nice lookin snakes id probably prefer a hypo bredli


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## herpkeeper (Feb 17, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Chris
> Please show us an example of an unnatural looking line bred locality pure Australian python.


 
STILL WAITING 

oh that's right ...... Albino's


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## cris (Feb 17, 2009)

indicus said:


> Chris I think you'll also find theres quite a lot of old time keepers that dont agree with it;
> one quoted to me today 'fools that haven't a clue'...some of these keepers dont even use computers;
> let alone get on APS.
> I also suggest you put some time in the field; it may very well help you gain a better understanding;
> as to knowing what your talking about.



I understand where you are coming from, but you need to realise "the hobby" as ppl call it isnt really much to do with herpetology for many, but rather breeding trendy snakes that can make money. Im curious as to what sort of things i would see in the field that would change my thoughts on the matter? I doubt im going to find some population of scaleless snakes with many other trendy deleterious mutations thriving in the wild, until i see that my opinion on the matter is unlikely to change. Goldfish are a great example of what pure line breeding can do, do you really think having our native snakes go down that path is any better than hybridising them? as i said earlier its just a matter of time differance, hybridising stuffs things up real quick while line breeding takes many generations to achieve a similar level of destruction of the natural genetics.


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## Pike01 (Feb 17, 2009)

All the gold fish I put in my mums pond were fancy types,but when they bred most of the fry were wild types,even some of the gold adults turned back to green-gray. Isnt this why you can buy feeder goldfish so cheap.If they were hybrid,they will never go back to wild type, as there is no wild type.
Got any more examples?


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## cris (Feb 17, 2009)

herpkeeper said:


> STILL WAITING
> 
> oh that's right ...... Albino's



Scaleless death adders are a good example of pure bred rubbish but im quite aware they arnt pythons. Look at goldfish, dogs, drosphilia or virtually any domesticated animal, to think pythons are magically differant is just ignorant IMO. Its just that "the hobby" is young and you can only trash the natural genetics slowly by inbreeding. I dont really have a problem witht the trendy designer breeders whether they hybridise, line breed or both, but i dont see how they are achieving anything relevant to herpetology or causing any damage to anything. Thats why its just a storm in a tea cup IMO. There are far more damaging things related to keeping reptiles such as freighting reptiles and keeping species that arnt local to your area, most do both of these things, I certainly do. Others are also careless enough to let reptiles escape, i have no doubt there will be wild hybrids and transfer of new diseases as the result of captive snakes escaping, that should that be more of an issue than how ppl make designer snakes IMO.


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## cris (Feb 17, 2009)

pike1 said:


> All the gold fish I put in my mums pond were fancy types,but when they bred most of the fry were wild types,even some of the gold adults turned back to green-gray. Isnt this why you can buy feeder goldfish so cheap.If they were hybrid,they will never go back to wild type, as there is no wild type.
> Got any more examples?



Thats a great experiment to show gene expression and evolution, but i dont think you can make them go back to the ORIGINAL wild type simply by putting them in a pond. Then again maybe you are right, i just let my dogs wander free for a little bit, so look out they will no doubt soon become true original wild type wolves and start causing a rukus :lol: 

Seriously though i would like to see someone turn a labradoodle into a true wildtype wolf.


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## DerekRoddy (Feb 17, 2009)

cris said:


> There are far more damaging things related to keeping reptiles such as freighting reptiles and keeping species that arnt local to your area, most do both of these things, I certainly do. Others are also careless enough to let reptiles escape, i have no doubt there will be wild hybrids and transfer of new diseases as the result of captive snakes escaping, that should that be more of an issue than how ppl make designer snakes IMO.



Keepin it real cris....Haha.

The ones of you worried about the "state of your native animals"....what cris just stated...is way more damaging... than what someone in another country does with their animals.
Worry about yourselves first because..... this very reason cris just mentioned.... will be ( or has been) the downfall of your "pure" and "local" animals in the future.

Like I said a few post back....there's at least 2 post a month on here.... about someone losing their snake out of enclosure. Some get them back....some don't. You think because a carpet (or whatever) isn't native to the area....that they're not going to breed if they get in the bush?


D.


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## Pandora Pythons (Feb 17, 2009)

Sorry guys...but if you turn away from reptiles for a moment and look at every other animal, technology, medical, crime and even politics in Australia, wether we like it or not...we are on the same trend as America. We might be 10 years behind America, but were on the same path as them in everything you can imagine, including our pythons!

If you don't want to support Hybrids and the people (clowns) that create them...than fantastic, keep it too yourself and stop commenting on them, cause you've got know idea how old fashioned you sound with the rediculous statements you keep going on about!

So maybe you should just get with the trend and realise your fighting an up-hill battle that you will never ever win!

P.S. Well said cris


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## JungleRob (Feb 17, 2009)

bump73 said:


> What about patternless childrens pythons????
> 
> Ben
> 
> EDIT: Though i doubt they are locality pure...oops


 
Cunnanara, W.A. :lol:

Thanks for sharing Yasser.


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## JungleRob (Feb 17, 2009)

herpkeeper said:


> STILL WAITING
> 
> oh that's right ...... Albino's


 
Patternless Childreni, locality Cunnanara, W.A.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 17, 2009)

i was going to say there alright at a glace

but now at closer inspecting my eyes are bleeding cuz they hurt some much from seeing the butchery to a standard bredli you can keep that rubbish in the us thank you very much


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