# What will the hatchy's be like?



## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

*Hi guys, I have two Coastal that I hope to be breeding next season, and im just wondering what the hatchlings will look like. I am hopeing they will get Dad's colours, and mum's patterns. We will have to wait and see. But what do you think?*

*This is the female:*








*This is the male:*





*Thanks guys tell me what you think*
*P.S. sorry about the female pic. Will get better ones later.*


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

Oh and does anyone think that the line in the middle of the female will develop to make a complete stripe?


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

Oh and im scared the female will be to young to breed, how old do they need 2 be 2 breed?


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

hello anyone?


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## Ramsayi (Oct 25, 2008)

I think you will be going backwards.The idea of selective breeding is to improve/enhance a certain look.By producing offspring from those two you are improving nothing.


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

Yeah, um, Im not doing selective breeding? I have a male and a female that I want to breed, I was trying to get a picture in my mind of what they will look like.


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## Vixen (Oct 25, 2008)

How old is the female..? She looks like a yearling if that. They should be at least 3 years old and have significant condition on them, usually 6+ foot and over 2 kilo.

Also, no one can say for sure what any hatchlings will look like just from the parents, even within single clutches there can sometimes be huge variations.


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi, yes it is only a year old. I thought they could breed at 2 years, if they are large enough. So leave it another year?


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## No-two (Oct 25, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Hi, yes it is only a year old. I thought they could breed at 2 years, if they are large enough. So leave it another year?


 
Yes they can breed at two years, if they are big enough, which your female, at least, looks nowhere near.


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## Vixen (Oct 25, 2008)

There have been some people who have successfully bred by the age of 2 - 2.5 years, however getting a snake to that size to be able to breed in 2 years is ridiculous IMO.

Just wait until whenever she nears the size I wrote above, even if takes another 2 or 3 years.


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

OK, will do. I will see how she goes, but man is my boy gonna be big! He is about 3 years now and about 7 foot, will he grow much longer?


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## disasterpiece7.0 (Oct 25, 2008)

They might be able to, it depends on the size of the animal. That female looks like she'll be 2 years off at least. 

As has been said, there can be enormous variation in coastals. You could get any clour/pattern from those two, it's impossible to tell. 

I'd suggest you get some books and do some researching. There's alot of information out there for you, just have good look and you'll find it.


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## No-two (Oct 25, 2008)

VixenBabe said:


> There have been some people who have successfully bred by the age of 2 - 2.5 years, however getting a snake to that size to be able to breed in 2 years is ridiculous IMO.
> 
> Just wait until whenever she nears the size I wrote above, even if takes another 2 or 3 years.


 
Snakes have bred at 1.5 years. Nothing ridiculous about it. If the snake is happy to eat the amount to be up to breeding size at 1.5 years I, personally, don't see a problem with it. The snake will know when it's ready.


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

ok so you suggest to feed as much as she will eat? Or will she get overweight and cause health problems?


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## Vixen (Oct 25, 2008)

No-two said:


> Snakes have bred at 1.5 years. Nothing ridiculous about it. If the snake is happy to eat the amount to be up to breeding size at 1.5 years I, personally, don't see a problem with it. The snake will know when it's ready.


 
I don't think snakes have the common sense to be able to judge when they are eating too much that it may cause health problems. They are opportunistic feeders yes, but I highly doubt they are always going to stumble across so many prey in the wild.

Plus majority of cases I have heard about of snakes being overfed, they have not lived very long lives. I heard a story the other day about a 5 year old snake ( which is still very young ) that had been overfed while young and had suddenly passed away. They didn't know why until an autopsy was done and revealed the sheer amount of fat in the body and clogging the organs was the cause of death.


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## fraser888 (Oct 25, 2008)

So how do I feed her alot but not too much. Maybe insted of a meal a week, a meal every 5 days? Plus slightly larger meals?


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## No-two (Oct 26, 2008)

VixenBabe said:


> I don't think snakes have the common sense to be able to judge when they are eating too much that it may cause health problems. They are opportunistic feeders yes, but I highly doubt they are always going to stumble across so many prey in the wild.


 
I don't know about your snakes but all my animals have shown they know when to stop, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a place full of water pythons that are breeding at 1.5 years of age due to the massive population of rats in the area?



VixenBabe said:


> Plus majority of cases I have heard about of snakes being overfed, they have not lived very long lives. I heard a story the other day about a 5 year old snake ( which is still very young ) that had been overfed while young and had suddenly passed away. They didn't know why until an autopsy was done and revealed the sheer amount of fat in the body and clogging the organs was the cause of death.


 
I don't find a problem with feeding them all that they can eat in their first year, it's overfeeding them after that that I've heard causes problems. Hasn't there been a study done on this recently with no problems resulting after a year of feeding each snake 30% body weight?


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## Vixen (Oct 26, 2008)

I will be happy and rest my case when studies are done on 20+ year old snakes that have been scarffed and are still healthy, enough said.


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## fraser888 (Oct 26, 2008)

I see both points here, but I would like to hear a thrid opinion, anyone?


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## Helikaon (Oct 26, 2008)

VixenBabe said:


> I will be happy and rest my case when studies are done on 20+ year old snakes that have been scarffed and are still healthy, enough said.




thats a completely different thing though. persistent high fat meals over long periods of time will of course cause massive health risks/problems in snakes. but during the time in which the snake is growing, therefore putting the majority of the energy from its meals into growing. it is unlikely to affect its health. after it has finished the major part of its growth feeding should be reduced by a decent amount. either one large meal fortnightly or monthly.


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## fraser888 (Oct 26, 2008)

Ok, Ive got it, feed it up until its a good length and weight, then take it easy from there. We will see how it goes thanks guys!


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## hodges (Oct 26, 2008)

Well mate, i can tell you now if you paired those two together they would produce some nice looking keelbacks.


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## fraser888 (Oct 26, 2008)

Haha yeah maybe


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## zulu (Oct 26, 2008)

*re What*



Ramsayi said:


> I think you will be going backwards.The idea of selective breeding is to improve/enhance a certain look.By producing offspring from those two you are improving nothing.



What would you know ramsayi,let them breed,at Mt Druitt everything just breeds and it dont do any harm, much.


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## Renagade (Oct 26, 2008)

VixenBabe said:


> I will be happy and rest my case when studies are done on 20+ year old snakes that have been scarffed and are still healthy, enough said.


 good point vixen.


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## Ramsayi (Oct 26, 2008)

zulu said:


> What would you know ramsayi,let them breed,at Mt Druitt everything just breeds and it dont do any harm, much.



Hahaha old Zulu mate.Yes I forgot about the MtDruitt scenario.


fraser888,you asked how others would think any offspring would turn out and I offered my opinion.You then said you are not selective breeding but you are.You have selected two animals that you would like to breed.At the end of the day like Zulu wrote it will do no harm obviously but don't expect anything too special out of them.


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## Renagade (Oct 26, 2008)

either way, you have quite some time to wait for her to be up to speed. i'm personally not at fan of feeding your snake as much as it will eat, hence i buy the other half of my pairs at age i feel according. i dont see how anyone can want to rush maturity at any level. glad to see you must have won your ma over with the large snake issue, may i wish you the best of luck for the process regardless of what you are matching as a pair, i'm sure the outcome will be beautiful with the effort you put in. and the experience an even greater reward. make sure you keep us up to day with all your progress.
ren


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## fraser888 (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Yes, mum has finally given in, and now I have two! I also have a larger enclosure coming so all is good. I can't wait and I will keep you all up-to-date, thanks again.


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## cjpossum (Oct 26, 2008)

Patience...........Patience
If you push something it is bound to break.
If you want healthy snakes then go the old traditional and proven way. 
If you want to speed things up then ok BUT remember this - "It worked for the other snake so why wont it work on this snake". Animals are individuals just like us, some will and some wont. So the question is are YOU willing to put a snake at risk for a few eggs sooner.
We have a 4yo male and a 3yo female Albino NT carpet. We did not try to breed this year so we can get another year of prime condition for hopefully a good result for next year.
Patience can be a blessing rather than a nusance (spelling?) especially when reptiled are concerned.
IMO


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## DanTheMan (Oct 26, 2008)

That female definatley wont be ready to breed next season, way to small.


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## jaih (Oct 26, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Hi, yes it is only a year old. I thought they could breed at 2 years, if they are large enough. So leave it another year?





fraser888 said:


> OK, will do. I will see how she goes, but man is my boy gonna be big! He is about 3 years now and about 7 foot, will he grow much longer?



UMM, id like to know how old it actually is.


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## scorps (Oct 26, 2008)

Fraser how old is your snake and how much does she weigh?


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## sasquatch001 (Oct 26, 2008)

i have a male that lookes exactly the same as this one and he has bred with the semi-hypo that is my avitar. i will let you know how they go.

P.S. if someone could tell me how to post a bloody picture that would be great.


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## fraser888 (Oct 26, 2008)

Hi, it is just comming up to a year old now, and I don't know how much it weighs. It is about 2 foot long.


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## channi (Oct 27, 2008)

jaih said:


> UMM, id like to know how old it actually is.


 jaih if you look closely you will see one age is for the female and the other indicates the age of the male.


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## Cheyne_Jones (Oct 27, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Hi, it is just comming up to a year old now, and I don't know how much it weighs. It is about 2 foot long.


 
You will be struggling to breed her at 18 months, I would consider that to be rather small for a 1 year old coastal carpet...


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## macaisme (Oct 27, 2008)

*Mutton bird oil*

Try and get mutton bird oil, grows them out that bit quicker. every second third feed. also makes them very shinny and conditioned. The tiger snakes of tasmania only gorge 6 weeks of every year on mutton bird and heaps bigger than the main land tigers.


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

No-two said:


> Snakes have bred at 1.5 years. Nothing ridiculous about it. If the snake is happy to eat the amount to be up to breeding size at 1.5 years I, personally, don't see a problem with it. The snake will know when it's ready.


 
Personally I have a problem with people who over feed their snakes just so they can breed them early and get money!, Let them grow as theay naturally would dont stuff them for personal gain - just mine and a fair few other peoples personal view.
Im pretty sure TrueBlue did a post on this which maybe you should look up and have a read.


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

No-two said:


> *I don't know about your snakes but all my animals have shown they know when to stop*, and someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a place full of water pythons that are breeding at 1.5 years of age due to the massive population of rats in the area?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't find a problem with feeding them all that they can eat in their first year, it's overfeeding them after that that I've heard causes problems. Hasn't there been a study done on this recently with no problems resulting after a year of feeding each snake 30% body weight?


 
my BHP would eat every 2 days if he could as it is I think he eats too much but is just a guts so NOT all snakes were born with common sense - cause my boy sure ain't got it.

As for the water pythons - there are anomalies through out the world of too much prey for the predators, but it the minority NOT the majority in most cases there is not enough food, I wonder if these water pythons are healthy or don't live full live?


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## No-two (Oct 27, 2008)

There's plenty of them water pythons in fog dam readily breeding they're doing fine.

Have you tried feeding your bhps "every 2 days"? Cause I highly doubt he'd keep it up for very long. Aspideties are very strong feeders usually they'll eat alot until they reach a certain weight. If you haven't done it then you can't really expect your comment on it to be taken serious. 

All so how's saying it's for money that people grow snakes? Obviously it would be for some but aren't people allowed to just want to get snakes to a nice size? I'd mch rather get out a 1m childrens python if I were going to play with it then a 20cm one. 

Or maybe you've got something special and you've just found a nice male to go with her. It's not for money that you grow him, you grow him to see the babies he has with that particularly nice girl. 

I belive a few year ago Sdaji fed up a water python, it was absoloutly huge. Bigger then one of my 2year old when it was a year. That snake is in perfect health and has breed.


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

I would not feed him every 2 days cause he would get over weight and that does cause problems in any animal whether you want to admit it or not. look what obesity does to humans?
He would easily eat and has easily eaten 2 large adult rats a weeks! 
I would rather watch my snake grow at a nice normal rate and enjoy the growing process with him than have him at adult size 2 or 3 yrs before he is ready.
Whether its for money or cause you want to pair him with a nice female its still for your personal gain not his. 
It may happen in the wild but rarely!
You dont see us power feeding babies do you? just so they can get to todler size quicker?
maybe we should start to do this as I would rather a todler than a baby!! hahahaha cruel me thinks






No-two said:


> There's plenty of them water pythons in fog dam readily breeding they're doing fine.
> 
> *Have you tried feeding your bhps "every 2 days"? Cause I highly doubt he'd keep it up for very long. Aspideties are very strong feeders usually they'll eat alot until they reach a certain weight. If you haven't done it then you can't really expect your comment on it to be taken serious. *
> 
> ...


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

*All so how's saying it's for money that people grow snakes? Obviously it would be for some but aren't people allowed to just want to get snakes to a nice size? I'd mch rather get out a 1m **childrens python** if I were going to play with it then a 20cm one.*

Dont buy a hatchy buy a ready made play toy


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

No-two just for curiosity how big do you think my 6month old stimmie should be and what should ?I be feeding him?
Any one else feel free to answer - it would be interesting to see what peoples expectations are.


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## jasontini (Oct 27, 2008)

Sorry, but Im getting confused here...
so IF the snake is eg.18mths old but hes big (breedable size), does that means hes able to breed?
or
IF hes 3+yrs old (breedable age), but hes on the small size, does it means he cant breed cos he is not at his breedable size..??


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## bundy_zigg (Oct 27, 2008)

jasontini said:


> Sorry, but Im getting confused here...
> so IF the snake is eg.18mths old but hes big (breedable size), does that means hes able to breed?
> or
> IF hes 3+yrs old (breedable age), but hes on the small size, does it means he cant breed cos he is not at his breedable size..??


 
I think thats what there saying but who knows - im guessing if its size then it can breed


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## wokka (Oct 27, 2008)

VixenBabe said:


> I will be happy and rest my case when studies are done on 20+ year old snakes that have been scarffed and are still healthy, enough said.



Have there been any studies, over 20 years, of animals which have not been "scarfed".to allow for comparison?


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## Helikaon (Oct 27, 2008)

the thing i find funny is that most people argueing against "scarfing" will feed their snakes weekly and will continue this for the snakes life. this is still overfeeding.


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## wokka (Oct 27, 2008)

Helikaon said:


> the thing i find funny is that most people argueing against "scarfing" will feed their snakes weekly and will continue this for the snakes life. this is still overfeeding.



Agee. Before a feeding regime can be determined keepers need to determine why they are feeding. For survival ? For growth ? For breeding? For body weight maintenance? All these require different feed regimes! The sex of the snake is probablyone of the major considerations in breeding.


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## Pythons Rule (Oct 28, 2008)

your female should be at least 3 years before she is bred with due to possibilities of her not making it through a rough prenancy, coastal eggs can be quite large and for a first time mum that isn't only enouph to breed she can die, her eggs could go hard inside her, or if you over feed or power feed her she could develope too much fat glands that make it difficult to lay the eggs and may need surgury. which will cost you an arm and a leg and you could still loose her and her eggs. so yeah I'd wait till she is at least 3 years and big enouph. do you think it would be wise to play god to try get her at breeding size asap when it could cause damage and you could loose them all in the process. I don't think its worth it, loosing such a stunning animal to a careless decission to fatten her up so she will grow large real quick, but in doing that she won't have matured and she'd still be unable to breed with, but if she does then you could have one or more serious cases to watch for.

if you over feed and power feed your snake it will get pin head sindrome and will have a very short life span, compared to what a healthey and responsably fed snake would. they could even find it hard to shed when need be and her mood will change quite drematicly. 

your concerns should always be for your snakes health and well being before anything else, then think about breeding latter on after your snake had grown at a proper rate at it's own rate, you shouldn't be thinking of getting a young snake to adult size asap, your male will still breed with her when she is old enouph. if you really want a snake to be ready for breeding then why bother buying a baby just to stuff there life up so you can get good resolts with colour and pattern. seriously!!!

have you bred before or are you new at the hole thing? its not as easy as having a snake that is at breeding size and wala, sometimes it just doesn't happen they may mate but thats it, they may just cuddle and thats all you see and they don't produce. you could be waiting for up to 3 years for something to happen just because there not old enouph and there not at the right size. or you may even find that your supossid pair is infack 2 females.

there's no way you can say for absolute surton that just because she is at breeding age or size that They will give you some resolts!!! 

just so you know I've been keeping for 5 years and been trying to get my cape yorks to breed for 3 years, works out its quite hard to breed snakes and I have 2 females instead of a pair, and I got about 5 probes done to one that everyone said it was male, all I could think dueing that time was, I fed him way too much earlier on and he is just way too big to breed now. I thought carefully on buying a new male this year and made sure he had bred before and he is 7.5 years old and 6-7foot. he's done his job and I should be exspecting eggs on the 9th dec. 

all I am trying to say is breeding has it's downs before its ups, and just to get a snake for its patterns is perfectly fine, but it's when you start playing god with it and power feed such a young snake so you can breed then. just doesn't sound like you really know what your in for with breeding and what the hole process involves. and I don't understand why you just didn't go for an adult in the first place if you really wanted to breed next year.. 

My big coastals are over 9 foot and they are 4.5years old now I did feed them 1 rat a week up untill they got to 2 metre's in length then up'd the size of the rat to at least the size of its gutt and gradually now feed them 2 large rats each fortnight - a month.

thats my 2 cents

cheers


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## gman78 (Oct 28, 2008)

nice looking female.
nowhere near breeding age though


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## Pythons Rule (Oct 28, 2008)

ok most of mhat I was saying up there was ment for everyone that thinks over feeding and power feeding is the way to go to get her ready next year. but the first part and odd other parts are ment you. 

sorry if it shoved all together and your confused but I am soo tired and just about to go to sleep. so hope it made sence.

but what vixenbabe said the first few posts are worth believing she knows her stuff...


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## fraser888 (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah thanks I undrestand. That why I wanted to know!


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## No-two (Oct 28, 2008)

I still don't understand why everyone gets so worked up about people feeding regeim. Have any of you even tried it? 

Helikon is totally right, you all complain about feeding something that is growing but you probably feed your old snakes once weekly aswell which is over feeding. A young python uses it's food for growth not to store as fat like an old snake does. 

I was under the impression "pin head syndrome" was deemed a myth. Seems to be alot of those in herps.


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## fraser888 (Oct 30, 2008)

bump


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## Pythons Rule (Oct 31, 2008)

I've had pin head sindrome in 2 of my snakes in the 5 years of keeping and it was from over feeding but I soon started feeding them properly with good advice from here and other sites. and they where younger snakes at the time of accuring. my cape york has had it happened 2 times one when yearling and once at 2.5 years. but she is a very fussy eater and I have to feed when I can other wise she could go off eating for another 3 months. she wasn't like this all the time not eating she devaloped it once she got older. my NT BHP got pin head sindrome when he was about 5 -7 months old was so far back I can't remember the exact age but he was much younger then a year though, I was feeding him too much and too often so I had to down his food to 1 pinky rat a week instead of thinking 1 wasn't anough. but when he got a bit bigger I uped the size of the rat and spread the wekk out to a fortnight.

so ya I'm sure everyone almost has done it as a learning curve and they've most probably had the same resolts or similar or maybe something else has happened that has changed there thought's on this subject and with good intention for the health of there snakes. most of us have been in the site for over 5 years or more we've seen and fought for our believes and been there done that and learnt from our mistakes and most of us are just passing our exsperiance to you newer people thats all. not to start an arguement just to tell you what you shouldn't do and why. 

in the end it is your desission and you'll probably do it anyways and when something happen's the first thing you will do is come online and ask people in here why and what did you do wrong.

it happen's all the time.

I'm just over the bickering and people asking for advice and either not taking it from people that are very exsperianced and know what there talking about and instead doing the complete oppersit and doing something that some person that is all new to the hole aspect of keeping herps. 

If you want the advice I'd not over feed and let her grow at her own pase this might meen you are waiting 2 -3 more years for her to be ready but at least there is far less chance of something bad happening and this way you can enjoy her time and company and get to enjoy the time while she's a baby and have a clearer idea what you'd be breeding towards when it come's along. 

good luck with them and what ever your desission may be, and please remember to post pic's of her when she get's older and bigger, she is just addorable.

cheers


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## Pythons Rule (Oct 31, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> OK, will do. I will see how she goes, but man is my boy gonna be big! He is about 3 years now and about 7 foot, will he grow much longer?



hey he doesn't have to be just feed him once every fortnight - month he's and adult now and its best to keep your males small if you can, my cape york male is 7 years and he is only 7 foot and he did his job. I feed him 1-2 medium's every month. my female that is gravid now is 4.5years and 9.5 foot, 

she grows roughly half a metre every year.


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## Australis (Oct 31, 2008)

Pinhead syndrome - how about some photos of this reversible syndrome?


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## fraser888 (Oct 31, 2008)

Australis said:


> Pinhead syndrome - how about some photos of this reversible syndrome?


 
bump. Agreed


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## rufus (Nov 17, 2008)

cjpossum said:


> Patience...........Patience
> If you push something it is bound to break.
> If you want healthy snakes then go the old traditional and proven way.
> If you want to speed things up then ok BUT remember this - "It worked for the other snake so why wont it work on this snake". Animals are individuals just like us, some will and some wont. So the question is are YOU willing to put a snake at risk for a few eggs sooner.
> ...


 

VERY well put


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## batcho101 (Nov 20, 2008)

been reading through this thread and it has me concerned that i may be feeding my snakes to much...the 2 coastals are abotu 2 years old and both 6 foot and will eat 1 sub-adult rat a week but still seem to be growing really fast. and my spotted python is 6months and eats a pinky rat a fortnight(was feeding it a pinky mouse a week but i breed rats so switched to them)


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## fraser888 (Nov 20, 2008)

Since you python is still young, it will use all of this food to grow. You will only have a problem if it gets older and you over feed. When its growning slows down, don't feed it as much. Simple.


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## itbites (Nov 20, 2008)

:lol::lol::lol:

Ah what a pisser!...


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## fraser888 (Nov 20, 2008)

itbites said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Ah what a pisser!...


 
???


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## fraser888 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh btw, whom ever reads this thred, I am not buying this female anymore so yeah lol.


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## itbites (Nov 20, 2008)

omg what a time waster! 
Oh & good idea considering you have no idea 
what is required to keep them & all


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## Perez (Nov 20, 2008)

itbites said:


> omg what a time waster!
> Oh & good idea considering you have no idea
> what is required to keep them & all


 
I agree and i was the seller... oh well she is sold now to a nice couple as their first snake...


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## Renagade (Nov 20, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Oh btw, whom ever reads this thred, I am not buying this female anymore so yeah lol.


 
? after 5 pages, i thought you already had her? oh... take off the kicking shoes fraser.


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## fine_jungles (Nov 20, 2008)

*itbites*



itbites said:


> omg what a time waster!
> Oh & good idea considering you have no idea
> what is required to keep them & all


 leave him alone


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## itbites (Nov 20, 2008)

No I won't this is just another way of forum flooding!!! 
& for what? 1st he's selling the snake then he's breeding them 
then he's not sure what enclosure he's supposed to have. 
Sorry but to me that cries someone who un-experienced 
& doesn't pay any attention what so ever! 
But keen to breed with a small yearling (that never eventuated!!)

What I would like to know is...
Is this male 3yr old still in the same cramped enclosure?????


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## Aslan (Nov 20, 2008)

...a forum kicker, thats a new one...

It's annoying enough for the seller to handle tyrekicking let alone an entire forum! 

...where's my red pen? 'fraser888' - i'll remember that one...


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