# Help, baby murray darling



## Bjrainbow (Feb 2, 2022)

First time snake owners. Thought we were doing really well, now not eating and has patch of broken scales near neck. Here's her history... dob 19/12/21. Shed 5/1/22. Pinkie fed by breeder Jan 6, 9, 16, 18, 19. We picked her up 21 Jan. Breeder gave us the tub she had been using. Took pinkies from us 23 and 25 with no problems. Has not taken anything since, and appears stressed (heavy breathing, constricting, urinating on us...) Tried feeding her again tonight, totally uninterested. Noticed missing scales on side of neck. A few days ago we thought maybe change of character may be because of shedding, but has not had cloudy eyes, or pinkish belly or any other "signs" we've read. So has been a week since last eaten. Tub has water, heat mat under approx 1/3 with thermostat, a warm and a cold hide. At what point do we start worrying? We are in SEQld, very warm and humid. Should I be getting scales to monitor weight? Or am I over worrying...


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## CarlosTheSnake (Feb 2, 2022)

Bjrainbow said:


> First time snake owners. Thought we were doing really well, now not eating and has patch of broken scales near neck. Here's her history... dob 19/12/21. Shed 5/1/22. Pinkie fed by breeder Jan 6, 9, 16, 18, 19. We picked her up 21 Jan. Breeder gave us the tub she had been using. Took pinkies from us 23 and 25 with no problems. Has not taken anything since, and appears stressed (heavy breathing, constricting, urinating on us...) Tried feeding her again tonight, totally uninterested. Noticed missing scales on side of neck. A few days ago we thought maybe change of character may be because of shedding, but has not had cloudy eyes, or pinkish belly or any other "signs" we've read. So has been a week since last eaten. Tub has water, heat mat under approx 1/3 with thermostat, a warm and a cold hide. At what point do we start worrying? We are in SEQld, very warm and humid. Should I be getting scales to monitor weight? Or am I over worrying...


send photos of her missing scales if you can. could be heat stress which would explain her acting weirdly, but not to sure about the scales. Get her to a reptile vet soon


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## Vixen. (Feb 2, 2022)

Sounds like in shed or stuck shed. You won't see 'signs' for yourself until they've had a few sheds in your care so you can pick up on them on your particular snake. One might have very obvious cloudy eyes, another you might only just be able to see that they're slightly different in just the right light. So the not feeding and adood sounds like shed. Not sure on the urinating in you or the heavy breathing. Would check there is temp gradient so can cool off when need to. Take to a vet just incase but don't overstress going off food for couple weeks and being ****ty mood, usually because in shed and over time will get better and better with the moods (get used to the fact that you're not a threat) and will possibly end up eating whether in shed or not, but that's more a personality thing.


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## Bjrainbow (Feb 2, 2022)

Vixen. said:


> Sounds like in shed or stuck shed. You won't see 'signs' for yourself until they've had a few sheds in your care so you can pick up on them on your particular snake. One might have very obvious cloudy eyes, another you might only just be able to see that they're slightly different in just the right light. So the not feeding and adood sounds like shed. Not sure on the urinating in you or the heavy breathing. Would check there is temp gradient so can cool off when need to. Take to a vet just incase but don't overstress going off food for couple weeks and being ****ty mood, usually because in shed and over time will get better and better with the moods (get used to the fact that you're not a threat) and will possibly end up eating whether in shed or not, but that's more a personality thing.


Thank you, I've just read so much conflicting info on the Web, one site saying they will start to starve after a week, others saying they can go a few weeks. I was hoping shedding, but yeah never saw any obvious signs. The "missing scales" this morning looks like shedding, but not starting in the right place? Like literally on her side past her head. I'll attach a photo, it's not a great shot because didn't want to handle her and upset her anymore (the blood spots were from trying to feed her last night and has been changed!) Should I put anything else in the tub to help facilitate a shed if that's what it is? She has 2 plastic Tupperware hides and water bowl. She goes between the hot and cool hide often. Not in a hide here because it was just after taking photos. Do we just leave her be for a week or so? I feel so helpless, really just want to make sure we're doing the right thing! Thank you so much!



CarlosTheSnake said:


> send photos of her missing scales if you can. could be heat stress which would explain her acting weirdly, but not to sure about the scales. Get her to a reptile vet soon


Hey, thank you! I attached photos above, not great shots because didn't want to handle and stress her more... does kind of look like just skin sloughing off, bit no other signs of a shed? I just feel so helpless!


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## Vixen. (Feb 2, 2022)

Oh they can go MONTHS without food, and some snakes (again not just breed but personality) often will each year go months without eating. Most young ones don't want to eat when in shed, some grow out of it, others don't. Especially first shed with you guys. No expert but looks like shed but yeah didn't start at nose, everything in tub is smooth, put a small rock in there so she can rub on it to start shedding process, if she hasn't she more by tomorrow you could soak her. Fill a container with water and pop her in it, she'll try and escape but eventually will calm down, let her soak in there for half hour or so, helps soften the shed.


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## Herpetology (Feb 2, 2022)

Well for one pinkies are useless, might aswell consider it starving, they spend more energy eating and digesting compared to what they get out of it

I would up the size of food to hopper mice

Secondly, put more of the mat under the tub, for hatchlings you want about 1/3-1/2 of the enclosure heated

3, the probe placement is no good it’s measuring air temps not surface temps as it is currently, you can either silicone it to the bottom of the tub or place it between the mat and tub and set the thermostat accordingly so you get 32-33c inside the tub on the hot end surface

4, yea that is stuck shed, you can put her in a tub of 1cm ofwarm water and paper towel, after about 30minutes of her soaking, you can try rub it off by letting her move through your fingers, or you can use paper towel to get a bit of grip

5, where did u read they starve after one week/ a couple weeks lol!!!they need to be shutdown…

I’ve had hatchies go 5months without having a single feed and still end up healthy as any other snake, and I’ve read of snakes going a year+ but I’ve never ever read about a week/couple of weeks they starve

tldr: up the size of feed, fix probe placement, put a bit more of the mat under the tub (while still providing a hot/cool end)

definitely let her settle a bit before messing around with her and handling and feeding, put a towel over her tub for a week and let her just chill


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## Bjrainbow (Feb 2, 2022)

Herpetology said:


> Well for one pinkies are useless, might aswell consider it starving, they spend more energy eating and digesting compared to what they get out of it
> 
> I would up the size of food to hopper mice
> 
> ...


So helpful, thank you! The heat mat is usually further in, probs just under half the tub, the tub was moved out a bit to take the photo. I'll move the probe! We are having 38 deg days with 60%+ humidity at the moment, it's horrible! The breeder we got her from said mice were empty calories, and to only feed her rats, so we were feeding her a pinkie rats... is this true? 

Such a relief to read it is possible for her to go longer without food. You say to give her a week before messing with her, should I try the bathing first, then leave her be? Or try the bathing in a week. You are all so helpful, I've been trying to research as much as I can, but like I said, so much conflicting info, even from the breeder!


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## Herpetology (Feb 2, 2022)

Bjrainbow said:


> So helpful, thank you! The heat mat is usually further in, probs just under half the tub, the tub was moved out a bit to take the photo. I'll move the probe! We are having 38 deg days with 60%+ humidity at the moment, it's horrible! The breeder we got her from said mice were empty calories, and to only feed her rats, so we were feeding her a pinkie rats... is this true?
> 
> Such a relief to read it is possible for her to go longer without food. You say to give her a week before messing with her, should I try the bathing first, then leave her be? Or try the bathing in a week. You are all so helpful, I've been trying to research as much as I can, but like I said, so much conflicting info, even from the breeder!


the only thing thats empty calories is pinkies, mice or rats.... both are fleshy jellybeans , I would go through the sizes of mice before switching to rats, you should get to adult mice being too small before swapping to weaner rats

seeing as its only a small amount of retained shed and isnt around the body (just scales up top), i wouldnt worryt about it too much, if it went further or around i would definitely recommend getting that sorted

If you want to spray down the tub to increase humidity while u cover her up, that can work too!


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## Bjrainbow (Feb 3, 2022)

Vixen. said:


> Oh they can go MONTHS without food, and some snakes (again not just breed but personality) often will each year go months without eating. Most young ones don't want to eat when in shed, some grow out of it, others don't. Especially first shed with you guys. No expert but looks like shed but yeah didn't start at nose, everything in tub is smooth, put a small rock in there so she can rub on it to start shedding process, if she hasn't she more by tomorrow you could soak her. Fill a container with water and pop her in it, she'll try and escape but eventually will calm down, let her soak in there for half hour or so, helps soften the shed.


Such a relief to know can go longer without food...


Herpetology said:


> the only thing thats empty calories is pinkies, mice or rats.... both are fleshy jellybeans , I would go through the sizes of mice before switching to rats, you should get to adult mice being too small before swapping to weaner rats
> 
> seeing as its only a small amount of retained shed and isnt around the body (just scales up top), i wouldnt worryt about it too much, if it went further or around i would definitely recommend getting that sorted
> 
> If you want to spray down the tub to increase humidity while u cover her up, that can work too!



Hey everyone, I am gonna sleep so much better tonight, I couldn't sleep last night, googling all sorts of sh**... she shed! I got home from a shocker of a shift, and went to spray the tub and put rock in with my son, and I was "oh look, she's out and about, and done a massive poop!" And then I saw the shed! I think it looks good too... seems to be intact, apart from the small abrasion/hole that was at the neck, and I can't see anything left on her or around her eyes or anything! Omg such a relief! So we'll leave her for a few days or a week before trying food again? You guys have been great in keeping me semi calm, so thank you! Like a worried mother I was, and now a prod mummy! Looking back at photos when we first got her, and the last photos that i took and posted here, I can see that her pupils were like slits, and now they're back open wide again, is that a possible sign for me to take notice of next time? Lol, I can't explain how much better I feel, thank you everyone for your help and listening to my raving!


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## Vixen. (Feb 3, 2022)

Awesome news! You can feed her now if you want, they're usually starving just after a shed, and also empty, as you see they often hold that last poo until shed as well (another way to tell if they might be in shed if they haven't pooed when they were meant to). You'll slowly get used to what her signs are before shed, and like I said some snakes the whole cranky moody thing goes away over time as they realize you're not going to hurt them so they stop being so defensive when they're at their most vunerable.


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## Dustproof (Feb 4, 2022)

Who told you this is a Murray Darling Python? I have a Murray Darling and looks a very different animal. The Murray Darling will handle cool climates and can survive just under the Snow line, they have gold lace work along their sides and grey with dark spots some have a very dark chocolate inside black markings. They have great personalities and are wonderful to handle. They do breath heavy which can sound like a hiss but that is common for most Carpet Pythons.


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## Bjrainbow (Feb 4, 2022)

Dustproof said:


> Who told you this is a Murray Darling Python? I have a Murray Darling and looks a very different animal. The Murray Darling will handle cool climates and can survive just under the Snow line, they have gold lace work along their sides and grey with dark spots some have a very dark chocolate inside black markings. They have great personalities and are wonderful to handle. They do breath heavy which can sound like a hiss but that is common for most Carpet Pythons.View attachment 332812


A breeder sold her to us as "het albino Murray darling", which doesn't mean anything to me!  He had other breeds hatching, but yes recommended the MD as a food first snake because if their personality



Vixen. said:


> Awesome news! You can feed her now if you want, they're usually starving just after a shed, and also empty, as you see they often hold that last poo until shed as well (another way to tell if they might be in shed if they haven't pooed when they were meant to). You'll slowly get used to what her signs are before shed, and like I said some snakes the whole cranky moody thing goes away over time as they realize you're not going to hurt them so they stop being so defensive when they're at their most vunerable.


Well, she wouldn't eat!  she almost seems scared of it! Wouldn't even strike at it, kind of try to run away from it! I was trying a pinkie rat we still had, ill go to the pet store today and go up a size and try again in a couple of days...


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## Wolfgang5 (Feb 4, 2022)

Hey @Bjrainbow

From the pictures shown I would be leaning towards agreeing with @Dustproof _in saying your little mate does have a different appearance to our MD's, see first two pics are my 13yr old MD, note tthe break in patten and horizontal "stripe" along the side of both @Dustproof 's MD and mine.

the last two pictures are of my coastal python when he was young, he seems to have more closely related patterning to yours.

that said, if your animal was sold as a "het albino" it's possible that it is a cross breed with say an MD and another such as a Darwin which would explain the pattern, either way, who really cares. 

I love each and every one of my animals regardless and if my boys want to be called girls or my Darwin python wants to be called an olive, who am I to judge.

aside from Diamonds who definitely need cooler temperatures, they all live in pretty much the same environment and so what does it matter. 

it is a great looking animal and you clearly care about it so I say coastal, MD, cat, dog, who cares, let it live and be happy. _


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