# New Orca BHP



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

How this for a new line of Orca BHPs


----------



## Retic (Dec 4, 2008)

Looks nice but can't see the similarity to a Killer Whale to be honest.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Can't you see the reduced black and orange markings on the sides of the head Boa ?


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry I meant to call it a ochre BHP Boa (not a whale), it just shows you how much notice I took of that line in the first place.

Cheers Dave


----------



## ad (Dec 4, 2008)

Congrats on a pilbara ochre linage Dave, :lol:


----------



## Bearded_Lady (Dec 4, 2008)

Beaut snake! I must admit I thought killer whale also when I saw the title!


----------



## ad (Dec 4, 2008)

Orca Pythons is a cool name, 

Especially since they are unique to the other lineages of ochres out there,
Congrats again Dave on bringing something new to the hobby


----------



## fine_jungles (Dec 4, 2008)

PilbaraPythons could you please post some head shots if possible.


----------



## snakecharma (Dec 4, 2008)

bloody noice looking python you have there Dave 

love the colouring cant wait to see it after its hatching shed will really show some awesome colourings


----------



## Retic (Dec 4, 2008)

Yes I think Ochre is more appropriate unless you plan on feeding it seals. 



PilbaraPythons said:


> Sorry I meant to call it a ochre BHP Boa (not a whale), it just shows you how much notice I took of that line in the first place.
> 
> Cheers Dave


----------



## TWENTY B (Dec 4, 2008)

that's a very attractive snake. 
What's the going price for one / pair of them. 
I think i've found my next pet


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Dec 4, 2008)

Interesting Dave 
can you post pics of the parents and sibs ?
was there any others in the clutch similiar ?
Roger


----------



## Ramsayi (Dec 4, 2008)

wow


----------



## pythons73 (Dec 4, 2008)

Very nice,but i think all BHP are awesome.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Here is another view of another sibling


----------



## Viaaf (Dec 4, 2008)

*Are you sure that's in Australia?*

I always thought that sort of thing magically appeared in Holland or somewhere, you know? Truth be told, I'm not sure if I'm joking with that or not.
That is really an incredible looking snake. I had to remind myself that the second photo was a BHP and not a woma, never seen one with so much color. Really a smokin' snake!


----------



## ad (Dec 4, 2008)

another nice little orca there Dave


----------



## DerekRoddy (Dec 4, 2008)

Yeah...that's sick Dave. Like that A LOT!!!
Did it hatch from wild Caught animals?...Or captives, you've held on too?
Very Cool!!!

Cheers,
Derek.


----------



## Den from Den Pythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Very nice snake Dave, WA animal I assume? 
Pretty head on the last one posted


----------



## TrueBlue (Dec 4, 2008)

Hmmm, strange looking bhp, looks like a woma to me


----------



## snakecharma (Dec 4, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> Hmmm, strange looking bhp, looks like a woma to me



hhehehehe thats why i said "nice python"


----------



## The Reptile Outlet (Dec 4, 2008)

Well done Dave. 
Cheers
Joy


----------



## SnakePower (Dec 4, 2008)

Awesomely cool Dave, looks like the Ochre gold is spreading nicely! Congrats  Pretty soon, another gen and you will have Ochre gold "woma morph" BHPs


----------



## Den from Den Pythons (Dec 4, 2008)

C'mon Rob, no inside hints



TrueBlue said:


> Hmmm, strange looking bhp, looks like a woma to me


----------



## Retic (Dec 4, 2008)

We don't agree often 



TrueBlue said:


> Hmmm, strange looking bhp, looks like a woma to me


----------



## Gecko :) (Dec 4, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> Hmmm, strange looking bhp, looks like a woma to me


 My thoughts exactly


----------



## LullabyLizard (Dec 4, 2008)

I would prefer to have a woma than a woma look-a-like BHP  If it _really_ is a BHP....


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Guys, it is now time to apologize.
I started this thread as a bit of fun and for a thought provoking exercise.
These are not black-headed pythons, they are unusually marked Woma’s.

It interesting how we over look things because we are already in a particular mind set.

The father of these woma’s is an unusual specimen that displays excess black and some may argue (hyper melanistic). In fact many punters were of the opinion that the Woma father represented a natural hybrid of both species which I discounted based on maximum adult size , ventral and mid-body scales counts, temperament etc. Obviously this logical approach does not prove that I am right though and DNA would be interesting to look at. 
Clearly as these hatchlings haven’t had their first shed yet they will look darker than they will actually be but the body markings do look interesting.
Unexpected specimens like these, are some of the reasons I prefer wild caught reptiles.

I hope you had fun with this thread.

Cheers Dave


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Here is a link to a pic of the father
http://www.pilbarapythons.com/womapython.htm

Cheers Dave


----------



## Retic (Dec 4, 2008)

I certainly wouldn't discount the chances of it being a woma/bhp intergrade.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Dec 4, 2008)

Only a closed minded person would Boa. 

Cheers Dave


----------



## Retic (Dec 4, 2008)

There's plenty of them around.


----------



## TrueBlue (Dec 4, 2008)

Den, not an inside hint at all. lol.
Morphologically it screems woma at first glance.


----------



## Den from Den Pythons (Dec 4, 2008)

I must admit, the first pic had me going, I even sent Dave a pm. The second pic was the give away (that and Ads pm)....

Good one Dave.


----------



## pythons73 (Dec 4, 2008)

Had me going when i first seen the 1st pic,looked at 2nd i wasnt convinced,good try thou...


----------



## TrueBlue (Dec 5, 2008)

I must admit i did have a fair idea what Dave was up to as he asked for my opinion on the animal in the first pic.
What i ment to say was not an inside hint "needed" at all. (As you all know my typing sux. lol).
Ive hatched out enough bhps and womas over the last few years to make the difference seem very obvious to me. 
A future dna test may prove me wrong, but i highly doubt it.
I truely believe, and have told this to Dave, that they are pure womas. I believe that he has found a very unusual form/morhp of woma that looks to be a co-dominant trait when bred.
Exciting times ahead for the Boodarie woma breeding program.
Imagine one of the black headed forms bred with an albino woma. A white headed woma, now that would be cool.


----------



## BenReyn (Dec 5, 2008)

I've never even heard of an Orca BHP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Defenitelyt on the xmas list WHat are the prices going for these babes?


----------



## BenReyn (Dec 5, 2008)

Aww You got me, lolol, I just read through the whole forum then.


----------



## Retic (Dec 5, 2008)

I guess we may never know, like me others seem to think they could be a naturally occuring hybrid. They do look a bit messy but I like them.


----------



## TrueBlue (Dec 5, 2008)

Boa, other than the bit of black on the male/father, it looks to have no bhp influence at all morhpologically.
He scale counts out as a pure woma, is smaller infact than some other womas found in the same area. If it was infact a natural cross bettween the two their would certainly be obvious traits to suggest such, yet there are none.?
What makes you think it is an intergade/hybrid.?

The link to the other animal Dave posted on the other thread is most likely an intergrade/hybrid, but this animal looks to be nothing more than a pure woma of an unusual morhp.


----------



## Retic (Dec 5, 2008)

Sorry, confused my threads.


----------



## Nagraj (Dec 5, 2008)

Here's one from Tanami parents.


----------



## Pythonking (Dec 5, 2008)

i'm with rob on this one guys, interesting snake


----------



## smeejason (May 12, 2009)

any updated photos on the these little fellas Dave ?? 
did they keep the black


----------



## biggie (May 12, 2009)

ever since i saw first bhp with orange coming though i thought hybrid


----------



## PilbaraPythons (May 12, 2009)

It has lost a tinge of black in its head area which is typical for woma's.
I will see if I can take a fresh pic as soon as it has shed.


----------



## links (May 13, 2009)

damn!!!!!!!!! i was all excited about a whale looking snake


----------



## Rainbow-Serpent (May 13, 2009)

links said:


> damn!!!!!!!!! i was all excited about a whale looking snake


 Hahaha, I share your pain


----------



## bigguy (May 13, 2009)

If the father of these hatchlings was indeed a hybrid between a BHP X Woma , and as these are distinct species, you would think it would be muled, and incapable of producing offspring. 

So is the father just a weird colour mutation, or are Womas and BHP's just subspecies to each other.


----------



## Jonno from ERD (May 13, 2009)

G'day Bob

I'm no taxonomical expert, but I am fairly sure that the ability (or inability) to interbreed has no relevance with regards to the viability of a species. Take for example the _Antaresia_ complex, _Morelia spilota_ and _Morelia viridis _or even some of the cross-genus stuff such as _Python regius _and _Aspidites ramsayi._


----------



## pythons73 (May 13, 2009)

Considering they are the same sub-species,whats or whos to say theirs no Intergrades between these two.Theres not a huge difference between them,Womas have a orange coloured head,Blakheaded have black heads obviuosly.There was a speciemen caught in the past that did die before anything could be detemined.


----------



## Jonno from ERD (May 13, 2009)

They aren't the same subspecies - do you mean genus?


----------



## PilbaraPythons (May 13, 2009)

It needs to be remembered that both species being closely related, also share ancestral traits, it may be that this line has simply re expressed a part of it ?.


----------



## Selene (May 13, 2009)

BHP... my dream snake... this one (even if it's not really a whale) is stunning... love it... *sigh* *drool* lol


----------



## PilbaraPythons (May 13, 2009)

Selene, you do know its a woma ?


----------



## Selene (May 13, 2009)

really? So I won't find one at the local aquarium then??? ...uummm yes I know it's a woma


----------



## pythons73 (May 13, 2009)

Jonno from ERD said:


> They aren't the same subspecies - do you mean genus?


 I actually did Jonno,i was thinking of another thing at the same time...Thanx for correcting me...


----------



## JasonL (May 13, 2009)

If you end up breeding the best possible Ochre BHP available, all you end up with is a woma


----------



## Jonno from ERD (May 13, 2009)

But they won't have the pattern of some of them Ochre BHP's Jason...blow any Woma out of the water, regardless of what colour their chins are


----------



## iceman (May 13, 2009)

jonno the Ochre BHP's line is not worth the money ppl pay for them IMO, i've seen more hotter looking normal BHP's .


----------



## Jonno from ERD (May 13, 2009)

I didn't realise that you had seen them first hand mate. I'm the last one to jump on bandwagons, but I'm definitely a big fan...and they don't even have venom!


----------



## PilbaraPythons (May 13, 2009)

Yes I am a fan of the pattern on some of the ochre specimens as well. I can't say I have seen any very strange patterns on Woma's yet.


----------



## pythons73 (May 13, 2009)

iceman said:


> jonno the Ochre BHP's line is not worth the money ppl pay for them IMO, i've seen more hotter looking normal BHP's .


 I double that,imo there isnt anything special at all with them,yes they have a orange chin,yippeee.Paying that sort off $$ i can think off a few snakes i would rather spend my $$$ on.To all those breeding them Congrats,but too me their not as great as others.


----------



## Retic (May 13, 2009)

Absolutely, I can only assume people haven't actually seen them in the flesh, the orange chin is a very small part of their look. 



Jonno from ERD said:


> I didn't realise that you had seen them first hand mate. I'm the last one to jump on bandwagons, but I'm definitely a big fan...and they don't even have venom!


----------



## Kimmy_88 (May 13, 2009)

have to agree with boa,absolute stunning animals in the flesh. heres a thread with clearer info on the gold chin or "ocre" chin animals.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...fusion-over-our-golds-and-others-ochres-91408


----------



## shane14 (Jan 23, 2010)

Hybrid i guess? looks like both haha


----------



## Serpentor (Jan 23, 2010)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Guys, it is now time to apologize.
> I started this thread as a bit of fun and for a thought provoking exercise.
> These are not black-headed pythons, they are unusually marked Woma’s.
> 
> ...



have you done a scale count?


----------



## Perko (Jan 23, 2010)

You might just want to check out the thread by Den " white girl offspring "

If there not your cup of tea thats fine, but im sure theres a few people eating there words that Ochres/Golds are no big deal, not worth the money etc etc.




pythons73 said:


> I double that,imo there isnt anything special at all with them,yes they have a orange chin,yippeee.Paying that sort off $$ i can think off a few snakes i would rather spend my $$$ on.To all those breeding them Congrats,but too me their not as great as others.


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Jan 23, 2010)

CraigP said:


> You might just want to check out the thread by Den " white girl offspring "
> 
> If there not your cup of tea thats fine, but im sure theres a few people eating there words that Ochres/Golds are no big deal, not worth the money etc etc.



I was thinking that the other day mate. It's like the people who keep saying that the Dan Gilbertson line striped Diamonds are actually intergrades - just makes them look silly


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Jan 23, 2010)

Serpenter
No scale count necessary on this critter, as the fathers scalation is all Woma.


----------



## BARRAMUNDI (Jan 24, 2010)

Dave
Do you have any updated pictures, the one in the first post was taken early December, would be good to see the progression of this animal after a couple of sheds. 

Geez it still looks very Bhp like, the body pattern looks just like a Pilbara Bhp. I remember seeing one of Matt Y's animals that looked like a Woma/Bhp cross, I cant remember what the scale count worked it out to be, but maybe you should have a chat with him.


----------



## ssssmithy (Jan 24, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> I was thinking that the other day mate. It's like the people who keep saying that the Dan Gilbertson line striped Diamonds are actually intergrades - just makes them look silly


 
:lol: well said mr lucas 

i agree with BARRAMUNDI,id like to see some updated shots dave


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Jan 24, 2010)

Barramundi
The pic of this little guy was taken prior to his first ever shed (hence dark) and was posted as a joke, not because it was anything amazing. The female of this specimen has a very ordinary smoky brown upper body base colour as this has been inherited in this youngster and not particularly a trait I desire and the male an unusual specimen, because of its excess amount of black pigment. 
The breeding however, simply proved that the black pigmentation could also be passed through and even more pronounced in the offspring. I will post up a pic shortly and you will see a strange but in my opinion a less than handsome development. For the compulsive line breeders out there though, I think with the introduction of a yellowish specimen in the mix, it would be possible to end up with a bumblebee looking Woma down the track.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Jan 24, 2010)

Up dated pic


----------



## BARRAMUNDI (Jan 24, 2010)

I think you are wrong. It is amazing and certainly worth the effort to work on in the future. 

I understand it was a joke, but as I was saying Matt had/has an unusual looking Aspidites (cant remeber if it was ramsayi or melanocephalus) that would be a great addition to this line providing his snake is a woma. 

Can you post some current pics of these hyper womas, even if you think they are ugly, many of us would take on such projects.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Jan 24, 2010)

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, take my girlfriend for example, everyone thinks shes ugly but I think she is..... wait a minute, who am I kidding, she is ugly.


----------



## BARRAMUNDI (Jan 24, 2010)

No need to talk about TRUEBLUE like that


----------



## BenReyn (Jan 24, 2010)

Looking good 
It's great to see that we can achieve morphs in AUS too 
There's quite a few upcoming.
Ben.


----------

