# Feedback on my turtle tank please?



## rekauq (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi Everyone,

First, can I say that I have already learned so much from these forums. I am preparing to be a turtle owner and although I have kept freshwater fish in the past, it is clear that turtles are a whole other level of aquarium care. I should also say that I am a scientist, and so doing things by the rulebook, is second nature to me. 

I would love some feedback and input into my aquarium and adoption plans. Today I ordered a tank + stand - 122x46x51cm (48x18x20") - the turtle ramp is to be built at 350mm from the bottom. By my calculations, this will give the little guy around 200L to swim in. I have also ordered a Dalbarb light with a single 'Repistar' tube and a 300W heater. I plan to fill the tank with rainwater from my tank and the fellow making my tank recommended I use Amrite Down from start-up, which I will do.

Now, filtration is my big unknown. I had planned on purchasing a Fluval 305 after reading the forums here, but I am concerned that it might not be big enough for the volume. I read elsewhere that the Fluval 405 shouldn't be used for less than about 200L due to turbulence. I'm looking at $175 for the 305 and $249 for the 405 online, so my wallet wants the 305 to be sufficient, although I feel these are both excellent prices and I won't scrimp on efficiency.

Please can I have some feedback on the filter, and also if you think I have overlooked something? I will send off my permit application tomorrow, and hope to be ready for my new family member in about 3 weeks. 

Thanks for producing an excellent site here folks... you've already helped me more than you know.

Cheers,

rekauq (that's quaker backwards... I am also a parrot enthusiast)


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## cris (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi welcome to the site 

Everything sounds ok. Not too sure on the filters, though im sure the smaller one will be fine it would just mean slightly more cleaning. Also brissy tap water is fine for turtles so you dont need to worry about using rain water. What is "Amrite Down" ?

One thing to keep in mind is that the turtle will out grow the tank and need a pond(or very large tank) in the future(probably a few years at least though)

If you havnt done so already read this care sheet http://www.aussiepythons.com/wiki/index.php/Chelidae_(by_Craig_Latta)

Im also guessing quaker has something to do with parrots rather than the religion?


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## ldheav (Oct 29, 2007)

all sounds good mate

305 should b ok 
but for the sake of only 50 bucks ild go the 405


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## rekauq (Oct 29, 2007)

Thankyou all for your responses and welcomes 

Cris - thanks for the heads-up on the brissy water. I looked up "Amtrite Down" (oops, typo in my first message). Here's what I got: *Biotec Amtrite Down:* Instant Bio Starting with two nitrifying bacteria groups, reduces toxic ammonia and nitrate, protects fish with slime coat. I'm guessing from your comment that it's not a usual turtle tank additive. I don't have any other tanks running which I could use to seed the new one with, but I do have friends with healthy cichlids so maybe I should get a couple of litres of water from their tank. Point taken on the pond - definitely in the plan for me, and I upsized the tank width and depth a little from the off-the-shelf model, so that the turtle would be more comfortable for longer indoors. A much bigger tank may not be out of the question either, but I was figuring on having 2-3 years to decide on the next step. Thanks for the link to your care sheet. I had already read much of it and I'm sure I will refer to it more and more in the coming months. And finally, yes, it's quaker parrots, not the religion. Not sure how uncool it is to have a parrot pic for my tag on a reptile board, but I might load it up until I have something more reptilian.

Sounds like either filter will suit - and yes, Idheav, I agree... for a few bucks, I might as well have less work. Just as long as I don't recreate the East Australian Current in my tank 

Cheers


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## rekauq (Oct 29, 2007)

Hit enter too soon!

I meant to say... Cheers Guys... thanks for your help and patience... I'm glad you are here and I'm glad to be joining you!

rekauq


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## reptilelover (Oct 29, 2007)

*hey guys*

Yeah tap water should be fine cause unless it goes directly into the rain water tank you dont know what might be in it cause if it comes off a roof for example birds do there bussiness and there is alot of other crap also i would agree go for the 405 it wont create a massive whirl pool compared to most other canister filters fluvals dont have a massive flow rate not a massive fan of fluval but the do the job working in a aquarium its a shame your not in melbourne have 5 fluval canisters that i dont use could have done you a deal its always good to put some bacteria aids in breaking down the waste and lets face it turtles can produce some waste have 5 of them but everything else sounds good and you have done your homework before you buy so well done and good luck


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## rekauq (Oct 29, 2007)

Thanks for you comments reptilelover. You've sealed my decision to use tap water... as well as the bird issue, I have a zincalume roof and I imagine that could cause major strife. Anyway, I don't drink my rainwater so I shouldn't expect my turtle to drink it. I'm going to investigate the nitrifying/probiotic bacteria additives some more... extra homework


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## richardsc (Oct 29, 2007)

turtles will dirty the water 100 times more than the fish ever would so id be leaning towards the larger filter


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## BJC-787 (Oct 29, 2007)

the amtrite down helps start the biological cycle so you won't get ammonia and nitrite in the water which is bad , one thing you haven't mentioned is the fact that you will need to test the ph level of the tap water as the turtles need it neutral (7).


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## rekauq (Oct 30, 2007)

Well, that's settled... I'm getting the message it's the Fluval 405 or something equivalent in flowrate and/or better in quality... I do love consensus... thanks richardsc for reinforcing that decision

absolutely, I will test the pH is neutral, casho_b. Your comments remind me of two more questions (speaking of additives): firstly, does the addition of aquarium salt affect the 'good bacteria'. I'd be effectively adding 100g of salt to the tank. Secondly, I have heard about a calcium block which is added to the tank. Is this effective, or should I stick with the calcium and vitamin supplements for their food (as recommended in Craig's caresheet?

Sorry to open up even more questions...

Many thanks,

rekauq


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## Tsubakai (Oct 30, 2007)

My advice (based on what's worked for us) - 

Turtles won't care about tapwater but I still use a dechlorinator to take out the heavy metals. 

I also use Seachem's Malawi/Victoria buffer (gives a pH about 7.8 to 8 which can help prevent fungal infections and I wanted to stay away from the phosphate-based buffers) There are neutral buffers around but they all seemed to be phosphate-based which would decrease the bioavailability of calcium.

Some aquarium salt will help prevent disease as well, just don't use it if you are going to get the turtle species that are cloacal respirators. Is fine though for your standard eastern long necks or macquarie short necks. 

I don't bother adding calcium to the water anymore as it was precipitating out all over the glass. Preferred to have the higher buffering capacity of the water and add calcium to the food.

Either filter will be fine. If you get a little hatchy and it can't handle the current, rig up a flow disperser of some sort. Once he's bigger he can handle more current. I used two 1 year old short necks to cycle my new 6 foot tank and they easily handled (and loved) the current coming out of the Fluval FX5 I put on that tank. Its much bigger than the ones you're looking at. If you're only getting one turtle and don't overfeed it, the 305 should easily handle the load once its cycled.

I think Seachem's 'Stability' is the best for cycling the biological filter, however its not essential to use anything as it will cycle itself, just much slower. The turts won't even notice the couple of weeks the ammonia & nitrite levels are elevated. If you want to seed the tank from your friends, use a bit of their filter media (not the water) as that's where the bio filter is established.

Make sure your ramp is not paved with gravel or anything rough which will abrade your little guys shell when he clambers out to bask.

That's probably enough rambling from me but we love having our turts and are as passionate about them as we are about our other herps. PM me if you want any more help. I'm not an expert by any means but have learnt a lot over the past year.


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## Tsubakai (Oct 30, 2007)

Forgot a couple of things - you can probably get away with a 200W heater if you haven't already bought the bigger one. Look at investing in a heater protector (like a mesh cage) to stop the little fella resting on it/wedging himself behind the heater and risking getting burnt when it switches on.

The UV tube is a good idea, my turts don't bask during the day (at least not when we're home) but it can't do any real harm. Just remember to take out the plastic/glass protector sheet that many aquarium reflectors have in as it will absorb a significant amount of the UV.


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## rekauq (Oct 30, 2007)

*Turtle Tank Chemistry 101*

Hi Tsubakai,

Many thanks for your detailed response... I hadn't thought the chemistry through properly yet so I'm pleased you offered that advice upfront. I'll learn more as I go (ie. unsure but I am presuming calcium binds phosphate making it insoluble so carbonate buffer preferable, but then excess calcium in water precipitates as calcium carbonate which I agree I would like to avoid on the glass too). I may take you up on your offer to PM with questions. 

Will definitely dechlorinate, and go the Malawi/Victoria buffer plus aquarium salt (I intend keeping a macquarie short neck) and I will investigate the Seachem 'Stability' too. 

I think I will go with the 405 (6.5 water changes per hour cf to 5 changes for the 305) and feed in a separate container.

The ramp the fellow is installing is paved with gravel  but if that is going to make him more prone to infection, it's removable so perhaps I should consider some driftwood and a plastic turtle dock. Good to know - thanks. The heater is easily changed and I'll be sure to investigate a cage for it too... another thing I hadn't thought about.

Not sure if the Dalbarb light comes with a cover - don't think so, but I will check and modify if need be. The tank guy tried to tell me that leaving the glass lid in place was OK but I plan to remove at least one panel above his basking area. In my experience working with UV, there are very few kinds of glass/plexiglass/plastic that let UV through. 

If you are reading this - can I also ask - is gravel an OK substrate to use? I had read that some turtles ingest it. 

This forum is making everything so much clearer for me, and undoubtedly so much better for my turtle 

Thanks heaps for your time,

rekauq.


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## Tsubakai (Oct 31, 2007)

I used gravel early on but changed to larger black pebbles - looked better and easier to clean. If you are feeding him separate it shouldn't be as much of a problem re: ingestion but I'm not 100% sure.

You're correct about the chemistry. CaPhos is not very bioavailable either which is why I went for carbonate buffers.

expansa1 from this site lives close to you (Sunshine Coast region I think) and really knows his stuff. There's also a few others from further south who might be helpful. Some of the turtle gurus aren't online everyday but will probably find this thread sometime in the next week or two and give any further advice if needed.

One other question - Where are you getting your turtle from? I only ask as I'm a little biased towards buying from breeders as I think petshops may not always sell you the best animals and their advice can be very misleading at times (to sell more products rather than what's best for the turt)


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## Midol (Oct 31, 2007)

The bacteria in a bottle stuff is crap and a huge waste of money.

Throw a dead prawn in, takes a few weeks for the bacteria to establish itself.


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## rekauq (Oct 31, 2007)

I'll keep an eye out for substrate alternatives. Larger stones sound appealing.

I do like to buy straight from the breeders where I can. At least that has been my preference for my birds and dogs. I like to see how passionate the breeders are, to view the parents and to learn whatever I can straight from the horses mouth. I must admit though, I have been recently watching the turtle stock at a store (Pet City in Brisbane). The turtles look energetic, healthy and inquisitive and they are in a range of sizes (measuring shell only) from about 5 to 9cm. And to the reptile staff's credit, when I asked about the tank size requirements, they readily let me know the extent of the commitment you make when you take ownership of a turtle. I guess they have people coming in thinking they can buy a 2ft tank and the turtle will be AOK :shock:

Maybe somebody reading this will know who the breeder is who supplies Pet City, and hopefully they can reinforce the health and genetic vigour of these turtles. Or maybe I’ll hear from a breeder with stock? In the meantime, I'll look back through threads I saw regarding turtle size and mortality and start swotting up on diet and maintenance too.

Well... I have ordered my filter (Fluval 405), I pick up the tank on Saturday and I have lodged my permit application. My kids are looking forward to the turtle tank too and I’m sure it will test their patience for a few weeks as the tank cycles and we await the permit. Perhaps I will throw that dead prawn in there Midol… for the bacterial load, and also to give the kids something to watch 

Cheers,

rekauq


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## ldheav (Nov 1, 2007)

mate just buy of expensa 

hes going to have better turtles than any pet shop


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