# keeping Exotic animals in Australia



## Kit_fox (Oct 31, 2015)

Hi guys, one thing that has always really anoyed and confused me is to why we're allowed to keep all sorts of exotic birds and sea creatures, but not one exotic reptile or amphibian (other than axolotls). I mean, it makes perfect sense when people say that exotic imported reptiles and amphibians could become invasive and what nort, but why then doesn't this aply to fish and birds? finally, what makes axolotls except from this exotic amphibians and reptiles ban (not criticising axolotls, I love them)
sorry if someone else has already asked this somewhere, I couldn't find anything on it


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## Shotta (Oct 31, 2015)

[h=1]exotic reptiles[/h],


[h=1]Exotic species[/h]


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## Dopamel (Oct 31, 2015)

i think its because axolotls are critically endangered....and I'm an american who moved here only five years ago and i'm upset with the species allowances, seriously :T while the USA exotic species trade has gotten way out of hand i still think Australia needs to be relaxed with most banned species. Mostly because I had to leave my very beloved Ball Python behind and she died while i was overseas, really wish i had been with her during her final days. 

I also find individual state reptile laws pretty funny....you can go to Victoria and just pick up a Shingleback from the wild, you do that in the ACT where I live and you'll get in ALOT of trouble....and you cant advertise selling snakes in the ACT but if you're not advertising its okay, fffttt. what?


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## Dragon_77 (Oct 31, 2015)

No you cannot just go out and pick up a Shingleback - Trachydosaurus Rugosa Asper from the wild here in Victoria, you must have a basic or advance wildlife licence to keep these in Victoria.

You must be thinking of the Blotched or Eastern Blue-Tongues that you don't need a wildlife licence to keep in Victoria, this does not mean you can just go out and take them from the wild it is illegal to do without a valid take from the wild permit.


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## Dopamel (Oct 31, 2015)

ahh sorry i might have been confused thanks for clarifying. The local reptile keeper said it like that but i realize he meant that Best Friends Pet Store just goes out and picks them up.....at the same time i'd be pretty easy to have a basic wildlife license if they're anything like the ACT licenses, so it bothers me either way.


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## Herpo (Oct 31, 2015)

Dopamel said:


> i think its because axolotls are critically endangered....and I'm an american who moved here only five years ago and i'm upset with the species allowances, seriously :T while the USA exotic species trade has gotten way out of hand i still think Australia needs to be relaxed with most banned species. Mostly because I had to leave my very beloved Ball Python behind and she died while i was overseas, really wish i had been with her during her final days.
> 
> I also find individual state reptile laws pretty funny....you can go to Victoria and just pick up a Shingleback from the wild, you do that in the ACT where I live and you'll get in ALOT of trouble....and you cant advertise selling snakes in the ACT but if you're not advertising its okay, fffttt. what?


This is what I'm talking about when I say I hate people attempting to impose their own laws into another country. I come from France, and the rules there are much like in America regarding reptiles. But when we came here, I had to adapt to the laws, just like other foreigners. This may sound harsh, but don't come to a country if you are unhappy with it's laws. The rules are in place to protect our native fauna from irresponsible owners.


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## stimigex (Oct 31, 2015)

Dopamel said:


> ahh sorry i might have been confused thanks for clarifying. The local reptile keeper said it like that but i realize he meant that Best Friends Pet Store just goes out and picks them up.....at the same time i'd be pretty easy to have a basic wildlife license if they're anything like the ACT licenses, so it bothers me either way.



NO pet store in the eastern states are allowed to take native wildlife to sell in their premises ! This is classed as poaching.


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## vampstorso (Oct 31, 2015)

Just because we have other exotic and invasive species already doesn't mean we should throw in the towel and make it a free for all. 
How silly.

We should be doing more to protect our natives and their ecosystems, not less!


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## Kit_fox (Oct 31, 2015)

For me, I'm mostly content fine with the reptiles we have here (though the regulations are really harsh). I'm just confused to why birds and fish can be imported but not reptiles or aphimphans (and at the very least why we aren't allowed to import/export the native reptiles/aphimphans that we do have, like you can do with dogs, cats and the like)


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## pinefamily (Oct 31, 2015)

I think you will find that most, if not all, exotic species of birds and fish are banned now. That doesn't mean that they can't be bred and kept.


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## kingofnobbys (Oct 31, 2015)

Want to know why ?

- cats (feral and pet)
- rats 
- mice
- dogs 
- foxes
- buffalo
- pigs
- rabbits
- feral goats
- indian minor birds
- cane toads
- carp
- gold fish
- trout
- fire ants
- argentine ants
- European wasps
- camels
- horses
- cattle and sheep (over grazing and destruction of native habitat for their ease of farming)
I'm sure there are lots of other exotic animals brought in as pets, to hunt, to farm, accidentially, that can be brought up. 

We don't need more exotic animals introduced (just to line the pockets of some breeders).


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## mad_at_arms (Nov 1, 2015)

Dopamel said:


> ....you can go to Victoria and just pick up a Shingleback from the wild



I think your thinking of Tasmania



Herpo said:


> This may sound harsh, but don't come to a country if you are unhappy with it's laws.



So many levels.


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## Kit_fox (Nov 1, 2015)

Just thinking out loud, has there ever been one introduced animal (both accidentally and on purpose) that has had a positive impact on the local environment?


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## Kopeht (Nov 1, 2015)

The import/Export of birds in Australia has been severed for many years now, not to mention the damage that most exotic birds could do to our wildlife is nothing compared to what an invasion of exotic reptiles and amphibians could do. Australia already has the worst extinction rate of mammalian species in the world- Image what an infestation of yet another foreign species could do?
There are so many good reasons in why bringing exotic reptiles and amphibians to Australia is a bad idea, don't get me wrong I reckon some of the exotics you can find in the US are absolutely stunning animals and I would love to get my hands on some- But they don't belong here, where our local wildlife is already under threat.


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## pythoninfinite (Nov 1, 2015)

Australia has almost all climate and habitat types wrapped up in one country, so there are niches for just about all introduced species to become established. Many of the European countries and the more northern parts of the USA have relatively cool to very cold climates which preclude the establishment of almost all exotic pest species - they might live a few months in the warmer part of the year, but winters invariably knock them off. They can survive only as pets in a managed environment.

Jamie


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## HiramAbiff (Nov 1, 2015)

That's all we need. 
Especially since there is a large percentage of people that can't even keep natives ethically or correctly.


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## Waterrat (Nov 1, 2015)

The mentality of "possession of reptiles" is a dangerous phenomenon and it usually comes from people who least understand ecology. The argument "they're already here" (exotics) is as good as those dozens if not hundreds of released or escaped Corn snakes.


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## BredliFreak (Nov 1, 2015)

Well mate, it's fairly easy to get illegals...
Once you get past the scamming, avoid the authorities and find an actual seller, if you have about 1 zillion dollars for a corn snake (though they are like 20 bucks in america lol) then sure! lol

Get a zoo, great way to educate people too (as long as it doesn't have the word reptile to scare shovel-weilders and wusses off... actually call it a reptile zoo and rednecks will be evicted from society lol)

And as many have said, Australia is a big place with about every habitat on Earth, so no matter whether it's a corn snake, iguana or horned viper, they WILL survive!

Bredli


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## HiramAbiff (Nov 1, 2015)

BredliFreak said:


> Well mate, it's fairly easy to get illegals...
> Once you get past the scamming, avoid the authorities and find an actual seller, if you have about 1 zillion dollars for a corn snake (though they are like 20 bucks in america lol) then sure! lol



They are worth about $50-$200 here..................


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## Kit_fox (Nov 1, 2015)

It's very understandable why we can't import exotic species, but why can't we import/export our native animals. Like if I was to leave Australia for say America, then I'd have to leave all my reptiles and aphimphans here, but I'd be allowed to take my dogs, cats etc along with me, What's with that?


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## Stuart (Nov 1, 2015)

Kit_fox said:


> It's very understandable why we can't import exotic species, but why can't we import/export our native animals. Like if I was to leave Australia for say America, then I'd have to leave all my reptiles and aphimphans here, but I'd be allowed to take my dogs, cats etc along with me, What's with that?



It encourages poaching in a nutshell. Why earn $100 for a captive bred specimen when you can earn more for a wild specimen. Not everyone is as ethically bound as we would all like to wish.


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## reptinate (Nov 1, 2015)

While I love our natives and I'm happy, I can't say I wouldn't love certain exotics. 

One thing I don't understand though. Couldn't native reptiles being kept outside their natural range potentially do the same damage as well? Could anyone explain how it's different? Curious.


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## BredliFreak (Nov 2, 2015)

Hi reptinate,

I know of one aussie species doing damage in other countries:

BTS in guam are wrecking the bird population

Also another reason why biosecurity is important; not just things getting in but things getting out

Bredli


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 2, 2015)

The reasons Australia has the exotic animals is does are essentially historical. Some are the result of early pet and domesticated species going feral, while others were deliberately released by acclimatization societies in an attempt to establish wild populations, or by authorities to try and control insects or other pests. In terms of pets, keeping mammals, birds and fish are long established hobbies. They managed to get an early foothold and have not been keen to relinquish any of it.

It is not just about avoiding invasive species but also about keeping out diseases. Australia is relatively disease free compared to many other regions of the world. Trying to enforce quarantine regulations is a lot harder than simply banning species of insufficient established economic importance to warrant the extra effort and risk of regulation. Whether that is fair or not is another issue entirely.

The question is whether Australia is overly restrictive? While not every introduced animal is capable of establishing and not all those that do establish spread, it is important to bear in mind that if they do begin to spread, we lose control of their numbers and then they cannot be eradicated. If you get it wrong, you are stuck with the problem forever... 

We have examples like North America and Europe, similar cultures to our own, where exotic reptiles and amphibians are readily available in the pet trade, to draw from. I came across this list of 82 invasive exotic reptiles for North America: http://www.invasive.org/species/reptiles.cfm. Even the UK, with its often bitter climate, is not exempt. There are some 13 species of exotic reptiles and 17 species of exotic frog known to have established breeding populations in the wild there.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 8, 2015)

reptinate said:


> One thing I don't understand though. Couldn't native reptiles being kept outside their natural range potentially do the same damage as well? Could anyone explain how it's different? Curious.


It can and does happen. In the US, for example, there are a number of native reptiles and amphibians that have escaped or been deliberately released outside their natural distribution and are having a negative impact on the locally occurring species. The Red-eared Slider turtle and the American Bullfrog are two causing quite serious problems. 

We seem to have fared much better in Australia, so far at least. However that is definitely not grounds for complacency. We have examples of native birds released outside their natural ranges that have become established and invasive. Kookaburras, for example, were deliberately introduced into Tassie and the SW corner of Western Australia and are now widely established in both regions. Rainbow lorikeets have gone through a huge population explosion in Perth in recent years and are currently spreading into surrounding areas.


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## butters (Nov 8, 2015)

Black swans aren't native to the east coast either.


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## Dopamel (Nov 12, 2015)

i'm not sure what you mean as the leading member of the States reptile sanctuary told me Best Friends picks them up in the wild in Victoria

- - - Updated - - -

geez sorry guys i didn't think my comments would be taken so negatively...

and yea the comment about me just needing to leave the country if i dont want to support the laws is way too brutal. Just because I dont agree with one law doesn't mean I disagree with every law and its not like I've not purchased a home and had to spend $10,000 in fees to become a citizen. I cant just go back. That I volunteer for two places and work 1 job also makes me a more productive person then most citizens. You also said it during the holidays, a time when i'm very emotionally vulnerable and missing my family, as an immigrant yourself i'd thought you'd be more empathetic.


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## arevenant (Nov 12, 2015)

Dopamel said:


> i'm not sure what you mean as the leading member of the States reptile sanctuary told me Best Friends picks them up in the wild in Victoria



They either have a collectors license(doubtful) or he is meaning in reference to rescues to him perhaps...
There are enough established breeders of SB in the state, that DEPI issuing someone a collectors license for them is highly dubious...


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## pinefamily (Nov 12, 2015)

If you have a citizenship certificate that's good enough for me Dopamel. 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## Eddie2257 (Nov 12, 2015)

the way I see it we have done enough damage over the years to ecosystems all over Australia and allowing exotics into Australia on a private level is to much of a risk to take, i love our natives we have some of the most stunning reptiles in the world, couldn't really ask for much more!


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## Ryan-James (Nov 12, 2015)

In relation to previous comments I think its a bit yes and no, on one hand its ok to still import live tropical fish (google it) into australia (almost every paradise fish in aus petshops is an import).
Poultry are still imported from the usa for commercial and more recently (google australian poultry import syndicate) purebred "show" style poultry are being imported as eggs and hatched in quarantine.
So there is still organic imports coming into aus every year including dogs, cats, plants, chooks, fish and assorted livestock etc etc.

I love what we have over here wildlife wise, but on the other hand I would still give six months wages for a pair of chameleons or iguanas or maybe tokay geckoes or even some awesome little tortoises that I can feed lettuce to!!


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## brandosmith (Nov 13, 2015)

Ryan-James said:


> In relation to previous comments I think its a bit yes and no, on one hand its ok to still import live tropical fish (google it) into australia (almost every paradise fish in aus petshops is an import).
> Poultry are still imported from the usa for commercial and more recently (google australian poultry import syndicate) purebred "show" style poultry are being imported as eggs and hatched in quarantine.
> So there is still organic imports coming into aus every year including dogs, cats, plants, chooks, fish and assorted livestock etc etc.
> 
> I love what we have over here wildlife wise, but on the other hand I would still give six months wages for a pair of chameleons or iguanas or maybe tokay geckoes or even some awesome little tortoises that I can feed lettuce to!!


What I wouldn't do for an iguana!! [emoji6] 

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