# what is wrong with this snake (pics)



## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

here are some pics of snake i saw at a certain pet shop,
very contorted and looks t be in agony.

sam.

it relates to this post.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=57106


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## Chris89 (Jun 10, 2007)

Maybe it's burn it's self on the light bulb?
Hasn't eaten? Is sick? has a RI. Could be a number of things.


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## firefly_ (Jun 10, 2007)

i can't believe they have that snake in an en closer without protection on the light bulb!!! That's soo dangerous!


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

it doesnt need protection from the light it is never on like alot of there globes.


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## Chris89 (Jun 10, 2007)

Then maybe it's suffering from no heat then?


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Otheranimals*

What do the other snakes look like Sam. Have you asked how long they have the animal in the store. Are there other snakes showing similiar signs.

I've heard of snakes with OPMV twisting shortly before dying. Not saying this is an OPMV but the systoms you have stated appear frightingly similiar.


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## Khagan (Jun 10, 2007)

D: Doesnt look like a happy chappy, its sad these guys are not getting anything done against them..


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## freddy (Jun 10, 2007)

neurological disease?- affects the nervous system (brain and spinal)


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## junglepython2 (Jun 10, 2007)

As much as I hate to say it, it may be OPMV, which means everything else there is at risk as I doubt petshops have proper quarantine procedures.
It may not be, but that would be the worse case scenario.

Have you made a formal complaint yet Sam?


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## grimbeny (Jun 10, 2007)

neurological symptoms are indicative of opmv. If i was u i would be making sure it didnt contaminate you...


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## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2007)

sam is that pet shop on the gold coast.?


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## freddy (Jun 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> neurological symptoms are indicative of opmv. If i was u i would be making sure it didnt contaminate you...


yeah also IBD just didnt want to throw the words around.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Jun 10, 2007)

looks like something to do with nervs.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

*more*

and no it is in melbourne.

here are some more pics that were taken today,
formal complaints have been made by the dozen and nothing ever happens,
but i am building up a case.

i would like someone to do a poll on them to find out who will back me up as i dont know how to.

thanks,

sam.


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## Snow1369 (Jun 10, 2007)

They have a few things still in tact but only because there new, i see all there stuff going down hill constantly.


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## grimbeny (Jun 10, 2007)

That is absolutly discusting!!! Who in their right frame of mind would by either that monitor or those turtles in that festy pond?


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## Reptile_Boy (Jun 10, 2007)

this is just rong


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## nuthn2do (Jun 10, 2007)

Ring the DEC or whoever it is down there and tell them there is a snake at that shop showing signs of OPMV


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## Snow1369 (Jun 10, 2007)

From what i hear the owner is on the board of DSE, he gets a fine pays and one they go doing the same thing again.


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## grimbeny (Jun 10, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> Ring the DEC or whoever it is down there and tell them there is a snake at that shop showing signs of OPMV


This would definatly ruffle some feathers and bring it to their imediate attention which needs to be done. You probably wont have any luck contacting them on this long weekend though.


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Dse*

I find it hard to believe that the owner would be on the board of the DSE. Not out of the question but I doubt it.

Can someone PM me the name of the shop please?

This is wrong. Neglect and nothing else. I went to a VHS meeting where Dr.Franciscus Scheeling (Melbourne Zoo Vet) spoke about OPMV and the twisting you mentioned is 110 % OPMV.

This needs to be shut down now and quarantined to avoid a spread but unfortunately it might be too late.


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## sxc_celly (Jun 10, 2007)

Thats seriously unacceptable. I felt really sad when i saw those pictures. Im sure if you/we gathered some real evidence like the pictures youve got, especially that turtle pond, we can make a stand. Im in Brisbane, but im happy to support you. If anyone out there can make a poll, raise your hand, and we can get a petition going. We'll have a petition, photo evidence, and come up with a strong case. Im sure if we all got together in this, we can make a difference, and just keeping fighting until we do. (btw, whats the board of DSE?)


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> neurological symptoms are indicative of opmv. If i was u i would be making sure it didnt contaminate you...



Neurological problems are symptomatic of OPMV but not exclusive.


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## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2007)

Those of you that said something needs to be done, you are absolutely right. 

I dont know where you are talking about as far as the shop or whatever goes. But i tell you now if you showed those photos to any wildlife foundation, and it was only a home, they would be beating down there door let alone the fact it is obviously a shop

I personally would be keeping those photos, and going to the state wildlife officials, then the media, make afuss, jump up and down. Make some noise. Dont just stop at that, contact the council, today tonight, a current affair, WWF, RSPCA.

You make enough noise, people will listen. 

You dont need back up 

Those photos tell everything


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## Australis (Jun 10, 2007)

That Little Goanna looks like its knocking on Deaths Door! :shock: 

Good on ya Sam, i hope you get the mongrels


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## MoreliaMatt (Jun 10, 2007)

SlothHead said:


> I personally would be keeping those photos, and going to the state wildlife officials, then the media, make afuss, jump up and down. Make some noise. Dont just stop at that, contact the council, today tonight, a current affair, WWF, RSPCA.
> 
> You make enough noise, people will listen.
> 
> ...





please please please do this!!!! a few phonecalls is all it takes to get the ball rolling!


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## grimbeny (Jun 10, 2007)

Yea i think the RSPCA is actually a good place to start. I dont care who the owner is their r ppl out their with enough power to make ppl listen. You just need to find out how to contact them.


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## nuthn2do (Jun 10, 2007)

Can someone PM me a name


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Media*

Go the media straight away. That way all of the relevant authorities will have to wake up and act.

Publicly out cry cannot be ignored. The media is the powerfull tool that we can use here.


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Like wise*



nuthn2do said:


> Can someone PM me a name



I want the name too please.


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## method (Jun 10, 2007)

any part of the media would be happy to pick up this story and go with it with no worries, dooo it


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## theduclos (Jun 10, 2007)

can anyone tell me what would cause that goanna's stomach to cave in? The snakes pics arent clear enough to see much, the turtles pond is just plain filthy and disgusting. But what the hell could cause the stomach of an animal to just cave in. It looks lke a brick has been sitting on it.


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## freddy (Jun 10, 2007)

theduclos said:


> can anyone tell me what would cause that goanna's stomach to cave in? The snakes pics arent clear enough to see much, the turtles pond is just plain filthy and disgusting. But what the hell could cause the stomach of an animal to just cave in. It looks lke a brick has been sitting on it.


starvation.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

i am most certainly going to all the different authorities,
but at the moment i am printing up all the pictures i have plenty more and setting up a few folders,

but before i act i would like to get a hold of some regulations on keeping reptiles in petshops so i can specify which wildlifeact has been broken,

if i put it to them that way and there is an actual law in writing that they have broke they will be closed down.

so if anyone knows any websites or places i can obtain these laws please pm me.

also if anyone has any other info that could help this feel free to email [email protected].

thanks,

sam.


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Yep*



freddy said:


> starvation.



That would do it. The animal is feeding from it's fat supplies and obviosuly when they have none left malnutrition sets in and shortly after death


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 10, 2007)

Contact the RSPCA ,
surely they would get the ball rolling and save those poor reptiles,
to see such cruelty infuriates me


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## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2007)

I have got a commercial licence though it is a ACT one 

I would assume that the rules would be similar

The best people to check with will be the VIC envrionment people, who ever does your licences down that way

They will be most interested. 

Something like this, you would have your licence revoked on the spot, well you would in the ACT anyway


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

*pic*

this ones shows the twisting much more clearly


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## shamous1 (Jun 10, 2007)

*Name*

[Not right


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## GSXR_Boy (Jun 10, 2007)

And people wonder why here, in nsw, people are against selling reptiles in pet shops.

Makes you feel sad looking at that poor lizard with a pleading look in his eye


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

SlothHead said:


> The best people to check with will be the VIC envrionment people, who ever does your licences down that way



has been done many times and nothing ever happens but this time i want to see them in person and put this in writing.

sam.


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## javier (Jun 10, 2007)

may i ask what type of python is it the poor thing
and i thaugh opmv only got the diamonds


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## Snow1369 (Jun 10, 2007)

its a antheron jungle, opmv can affect any snake.


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## Australis (Jun 10, 2007)

javier said:


> may i ask what type of python is it the poor thing
> and i thaugh opmv only got the diamonds



It can get ANY snake.


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## hydro noun15 (Jun 10, 2007)

maybe namonia(not sure on spelling lol) if the lights never on.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

at the end of the day that snake is very sick and was showing the same signs last week,

and should have been taken to the vet weeks ago,soo should the ackie.

sam.


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## Cosmic (Jun 10, 2007)

Wow.
Words can't express how I feel right now. You have done a very good thing, Sam.

If I were you I would get hold of every email address to every animal rescue organisation and every newspaper, today/tonight, A Current Affair etc etc and SEND those pics! If this shop is local to you, go to the Mayor! EVERYONE should know.

How are their other animals? If their birds/mammals/fish are in the same state as those reptiles, get some pics of them too. The media and public will get into a huge uproar over little cute animals being neglected too, and this will help the reptiles as I know not everyone sees them in the same light as a fluffy bunny rabbit or puppy dog.
I'm not sure if there is much I can help you with as I live about 5 hours away, but feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.


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## foxysnake (Jun 10, 2007)

theduclos said:


> can anyone tell me what would cause that goanna's stomach to cave in? The snakes pics arent clear enough to see much, the turtles pond is just plain filthy and disgusting. But what the hell could cause the stomach of an animal to just cave in. It looks lke a brick has been sitting on it.



Is that lizard dead in that pic? Seriously it looks like its dead and dried out... Those pics absolutely disgust me, I can't even describe how much that infuriates me. People who do that to reptiles or any animal should be put in jail or recieve the same treatment IMO. I hope something happens to stop those people from trading.


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## freddy (Jun 10, 2007)

you might need a vets opinion on the animals so if you take the photos to a vet they might be able to give you a report/letter stating this is un-acceptable.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 10, 2007)

someone on here has told this shop that about this thread or they have been on here themselves.

because when i went there last week there cages were atrocious there was beardys with water dragons and there was masses of over crowding and when i went there today the beardys wernt with the water dragons and they had moved lizards other places which i could not find.
and they also cleaned there large turtle tank out for the first time in 2 years.

but they still had the sick snakes there the ackie and some blueys not being treated and still no heat.


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## Twiggz (Jun 10, 2007)

Someone has obviously had a word in their ear then.

Get the media involved. FORCE the regulatory authorities to act!!!!

Based on the pics id say they may need putting to sleep. The monitor especially looks like its knocking on deaths door. 

DONT let them cover that sort of stuff up- do it now before it become a matter of "he said she said" when you get your folders sorted.


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## Minty (Jun 10, 2007)

thats disgusting.... i couldnt stand around and watch that. id steal em out of there if i had to!!


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## Khagan (Jun 10, 2007)

If someone has told them then i dunno how they can sleep at night after aiding them in covering up such inhuman things and allowing them to continue on going back to mistreating these poor animals after the attention has died down, cause thats what will happen.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 11, 2007)

i am finding it hard to find the regulations on keeping them commercially, but that cant be found on the dse website, and i cant call them as they are closed fo the long weekend.

sam.


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## shamous1 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Rspca*

Hi Sam, The RSPCA is opened 24/7. The can act on blatant animal neglect and would then in-turn contact DSE, who would then look into the licensing aspects.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 11, 2007)

ok thanks,
will most certainly be in contact with them.
also i have created a poll on here peoples contribution would be great,
here is the link http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=57315

sam.


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## richardsc (Jun 11, 2007)

hey sam,jesus christ,i havnt been there for a while but that ridgey was rather obese when i first saw it 2 years ago when they first got it,they used to have 2 of them,i cant believe its gotton that bad,if u think thats bad u should have seen the storrs they had,it was that emiciated i thought it had died,then went in one time for a look and yep the poor thing had died,and the idiots still had it for sale,looked to have been dead for a while to,also that snake doesnt nessacerilly have opmv or ibd,i recently lost a darwin juvie to some strange blood viris,it was healthy appearing till i went into my herp room and saw it all twisted up and showing those symptoms,the previous day it was all fine,so rushed it to the vet,the snake died before i got there,so had an autopsy performed to make sure it wasnt ibd or opmv,which i was assured it wasnt,can think of the actual name of what it had but it wasnt contagious and hasnt ever been heard of in a reptile,so the vet,and yes hes a herp vet,sent the case off to other vets around the world,apparently when snakes are dieing they writh in pain,hence the twisting,but yeah who knows what that poor snake is suffering from,let alone some of there other stuff,i havnt ever seen that pond before,they used to keep them in a large aquarium,over crowded to the max


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 11, 2007)

they still have that aquarium for the turtles but the cleaned it out for the first tim in years some time during the week.
if you have been up the back of the store where those realy smelly birds are there are a few pond in the centre enclosure that are fluro green, about a year ago they had a few wallabies in the same cage.

sam.


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## jamesr (Jun 11, 2007)

**shakes head**
...speechless


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## Sarg (Jun 11, 2007)

About time they were named!!

To make sure no one shops there!

I pity any animal they keep.


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## Reptile City (Jun 11, 2007)

Sam Do Somthing ASAP!
Help the Reptiles by intervention!
Dob them in, & DSE will take them to a vet hopefully.
Geezs that really disgusts me so bad!!!!!!!!
How do they sleep at night?
Good luck SAM!!!!

Jason


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## Aslan (Jun 11, 2007)

*Sam* - There is no need for you to look up the exact regulations - it would be plain as day to anyone looking at those pictures that the animals are in a bad way...it is not your responsibility to track down legislation, that will be done by the relevant authorities when it comes time to prosecute....

I would initially contact the RSPCA - I have worked with them on a number of occasions and they are very keen and eager to stop this type of thing - as you would imagine...but I think you should make the complaint, in writing, with pictures attached to all relevant authorities - make your intention to go to the media also clear....regardless of who sits on what board taking your complaint to the media will force them to take action...

...in saying that though, speak to RSPCA first - the media have a knack for ruining investigations...

Please keep us informed...


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## NSavage (Jun 11, 2007)

This is just a suggestion....

Why don't you name the shop and as many members of this site that are able to go to the shop do so. Then you can all act as a group! I reckon that would sort it out quick smart. I would also suggest going to both the authorities and the media at the same time. That way there is a good chance that this shop gets shut down.


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## Ricko (Jun 11, 2007)

The guy is in the pockets of DSE, I havent been to said shop in a while now but last time i was there, there were over 15 adult beardeds in a 2 1/2 ft cage. The reptile section is just one section of that disgusting place that needs attention, along with the puppy's and kittens that are basically in a cardboard box sized cage. The place is a shambles and has been for a long time now. On more than one occasion while standing in the reptile section i have called the DSE and they said they would look into it but surprise surprise nothing ever happens. It's Like when they had a Raptor (bird of prey) there for supposed rehab it was in a very small aviary for such a bird.


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## grimbeny (Jun 11, 2007)

Naming them is not really important as people on here arnt going to make an impact. This needs to be taken to an appropriate body such as the RSPCA and quick.


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## little guy (Jun 11, 2007)

This is why in NSW they are not aloud reptiles in pet shops.They only think of the money they can make and employ young staff who know very little about how to keep reptiles.I am not saying that they are all the same but i dont like reptiles in shops. We wayed up the pros and cons and there were farr more cons. Report that shop as soon as possible they should not have animals.If it is opmv how many un knowing people have taken the virus with them.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 11, 2007)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=57315
if people could go to this link that would be great.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 11, 2007)

also i have called the rspca and there is no one there that can help today.


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## Manda1032 (Jun 11, 2007)

SlothHead said:


> I personally would be keeping those photos, and going to the state wildlife officials, then the media, make afuss, jump up and down. Make some noise. Dont just stop at that, contact the council, today tonight, a current affair, WWF, RSPCA.
> 
> You make enough noise, people will listen.
> 
> ...


 
I was gonna say something along those lines but i was beaten.

Ditto to all the above and if these people have an online store or something I to would like to know who they are via PM Please so I can warn all I meet not to go there either!

You start a petition.....send it on too!


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## shamous1 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Back-up*

I'll back you up. Count me in. The more noise the better.


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## lauraschram (Jun 11, 2007)

hi
im a vet student in melb with friends in the dpi 
pm me with the name and address of the shop and all go take a look And then get them an to it as much as possible. pretty sure i gould get them in a fair bit of trouble but would have to see for myself first.
cheers 
laura


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## DiamondAsh (Jun 11, 2007)

*PM please with the name of this place, I think I drive past it all the time, but want to be sure.*


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## shamous1 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Done*



Manda1032 said:


> I to would like to know who they are via PM Please so I can warn all I meet not to go there either!QUOTE]
> 
> Done


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## shamous1 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Done*



lauraschram said:


> hi
> im a vet student in melb with friends in the dpi
> pm me with the name and address of the shop and all go take a look And then get them an to it as much as possible. pretty sure i gould get them in a fair bit of trouble but would have to see for myself first.
> cheers
> laura




Done


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## shamous1 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Done*



DiamondAsh said:


> *PM please with the name of this place, I think I drive past it all the time, but want to be sure.*



Done


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## Aussie Python Lover (Jun 11, 2007)

No naming the shop might not do anything but the ppl who live around that area should report the discusting way the animals are being kept. People need to speak out I was almost in tears seeing how those poor defenseless animals are being kept. Im quite on the side of getting it out to the media and I know Today Tonight would love to get it out there and known that the shop needs to be shut down or have thier reptile licence taken away from them. Good on you sam....


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## Recharge (Jun 11, 2007)

what sickens me just as much, is how many people have been in that sho and never reported anything?

personally, I'd be getting as many herpers together, call the media and stand outside with sings and have it broadcast, THAT'LL get some things moving along


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## Snow1369 (Jun 11, 2007)

I went to this shop today to have another look (although, i knew what to expect from previous visits) the turtles are discusting, there were so many in the tiny green discusting pond, one was trying to move and it couldn't break its head through the top layers of slime. In the area where they were there were also wild mice running around in the big cage (people that have been there will know what i mean). Do you mind if i take these photos Sam, to send to a few people and the newspapers?


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## alex_c (Jun 12, 2007)

those pics arent from a certain large shop on springvale road are they? because everytime ive been there ive seen something wrong.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 12, 2007)

they sure are alex and there is no reason that i would mind anyone using these photos, but it would be good if could pm me and keep me updated on any response you have from them,

thanks,

sam.


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## serenaphoenix (Jun 12, 2007)

You know what - crappy current affairs prog. would love this - call Today Tonight - ASAP!


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## grimbeny (Jun 12, 2007)

serenaphoenix said:


> You know what - crappy current affairs prog. would love this - call Today Tonight - ASAP!



Yea but like the people that watch the show they will probably be happy there is 1 less snake in the world...


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## Ramsayi (Jun 12, 2007)

Complain to the EPA.Tell them if you arent satified with their response then you will take it above their heads.Forget ACA etc as well as the RSPCA.


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## grimbeny (Jun 12, 2007)

u dont think the rspca will help? Who is above the EPA's head?


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## Ramsayi (Jun 12, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> u dont think the rspca will help? Who is above the EPA's head?



Its a government dept,each and every one of them has someone higher up.For a start tell the person you lodge the complaint with that if nothing is done then you will take it to the director of that dept.Failing that to the minister that is responsible for them.Also make any complaint in writing.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 12, 2007)

dont worry we have already got the ball rolling.
thanks to the help of a few memners on here.

sam.


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## dragon_tail (Jun 12, 2007)

good to see this thread!
ive been trying to do something about this guy for years....
im not sure if anyone named the store, so i wont, but YES he is on the board, andno rspca wont do anything, because ive tried EVERYTHING! all they do (if its reptile related) is contact dse (him). its not only reptile, but dead fish on the floor, tanks with half water because they have been left MONTHS to evaporate. a yound immaciated salty no more than 8 inch, dead puppies, puppies lieing in their own food or fecal matter, kittens that cant keep their eyes from rolling, 5+ wallabies in a cage no bigger than a walk in closet, sugar gliders covered in eachothers urine (wet fur and all), and water dragons of sub adult size with the proportions of hatchies (giant heads in compariison to their immaciated tiny physiques). ive tryed everything, nothing short of a current affair or any type of TV expose' will cure this problem, SERIOUSLY.

ive never seen anything worse, this place doesnt just smell like a pet shop, it smells like deaths.


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## Nappy (Jun 12, 2007)

Might be an idea to write up an email sam and post it here, along with a list of email addys, so ppl can just copy it and shoot it off to the powers that be.

1 voice is good, but an angry mob is louder.


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## grimbeny (Jun 12, 2007)

Thats a good idea Nappy, or a letter which we can write our name and adress on, sign and send it off to an appropriate person.


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## dragon_tail (Jun 12, 2007)

who's apropriate? everyone in the industry down here knows all about this, and we have all tried- something HAS to be done, we all know it- but what else can we do without the media? we've made every possible complaint to every possible department, MANY TIMES OVER


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## Duke (Jun 12, 2007)

Submit a story to Today Tonight:
http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/contactform/30607

I was gonna submit it, but I don't have enough info.
If you mention that the owner is linked with the DSE or whatever, they'd look into it. They love stories with corruption.

*EDIT* Submit to A Current Affairs:
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/feedback/default.aspx?formid=228
They also love juicy corruption stories.

*DOUBLE EDIT (or is it triple?)*
While I'm at it, here's the link to The Chaser's War On Everything: Dob In Line
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war/contact/dobinline.htm

And yeah, about that monitor, to me it looks like it's been run over.


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## Manda1032 (Jun 12, 2007)

Thank ya muchly, I'm pretty sure I know the place....it was iffy back then it's worse now!


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## grimbeny (Jun 12, 2007)

Yea i was thinking the monitor had probably been crushed by a rock or somthing.


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## dragon_tail (Jun 12, 2007)

ive seen it before on other lizards, including dragons and skinks, the 'dinted back' is usually if not mostly due to a lack of calcium suppliment and uvb, they do look run over [email protected]!


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 12, 2007)

today tonight has already had one sent to them but i am sending one to the others now,

sam.


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## dragon_tail (Jun 13, 2007)

your a gun sam! i wish you all the best with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fingers crossed that this time he stays down!


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 13, 2007)

yeh thanks hope it all goes to plan.

sam.


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## Sammccarthy (Jun 15, 2007)

does anyone no the name of the shop owner.
could you please pm me if you do.

sam.


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## Snow1369 (Jun 15, 2007)

If you call them up and ask to speak to the owner they'll get him he'll answer with he's name, then hang up


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## Glider (Jun 16, 2007)

Sometimes beauracracy can take a really long time for anything to happen, but if you have already reported the shop to the relevant authorities, and have documented evidence of other people also reporting the shop with no action taken, write a letter to the government Minister responsible for the authorities. I work for a Govenrment Department in QLD and nothing rattles cages like a letter direct to the Minister.


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## MMAnne (Jun 16, 2007)

I hope everything goes well!


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