# What wood to use/not use for tank



## Porkbones (Dec 13, 2012)

I have a fish tank that i will be using for a spotted python, but to help keep it warm an not lose heat through all the glass I was going to stick (on the inside of the tank) 6mm MDF board along both sides and back, but have seen that there are certain types of wood not to use.will MDF board be ok for what I had planned??


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## Mo53sz (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm no expert but I believe Mdf in particular is formed together into boards using a glue that has arsenic or aspartame in it. I would think this would cause your pet some issues, especially in the long run. A lot of people use melamine for their enclosures. 
Otherwise If you need to use the Mdf then perhaps put it on the outside. Your other option is to make yourself a nice styrofoam background to line all three walls. Will give a great effect and is really easy to do. Have a look through the forum and on YouTube for plenty of tutorials 

moses


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## dragonlover1 (Dec 13, 2012)

I think you will find MDF,particle board,chip board and melamine coated MDF all use arsenic or formaldehyde in their construction which is why I avoid them completely


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## Porkbones (Dec 13, 2012)

Well lucky I asked.thanks for that


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## rack_one (Dec 13, 2012)

If you are looking to hold heat use tinfoil looks ugly but does the job or Styrofoam sheets work really well


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## Porkbones (Dec 13, 2012)

Mo53sz said:


> I'm no expert but I believe Mdf in particular is formed together into boards using a glue that has arsenic or aspartame in it. I would think this would cause your pet some issues, especially in the long run. A lot of people use melamine for their enclosures.
> Otherwise If you need to use the Mdf then perhaps put it on the outside. Your other option is to make yourself a nice styrofoam background to line all three walls. Will give a great effect and is really easy to do. Have a look through the forum and on YouTube for plenty of tutorials
> 
> moses



styrofoam background?? Sounds good,Yes would def have to google to see how that's done. After reading the 2 replies MDF is now outta the question,I even thought of using plywood after I had varnished it

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rack_one said:


> If you are looking to hold heat use tinfoil looks ugly but does the job or Styrofoam sheets work really well



Thanks.yea tinfoil would do the trick but like u said it would be a tad ugly lol really keen on looking how to do it with styrofoam


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## Shaggz (Dec 14, 2012)

for hints on how to make styrofoam background just search this DIY forum, there are lots of builds here that show you step by step process of building them.


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 14, 2012)

The main trouble with using fish tanks for reptiles is the obvious lack of ventilation, if you have to use the fish tank, definately styrofoam would be best for heat insulation, and make sure the finished tank is in a place where there is a bit of a breeze, so some air can get into the bottom of the tank. If you were going to make the sides and back with timber panels, maybe think about making a bigger enclosure with mellomine or ply with vents, then cut the glass out of the fish tank (separate it into its 5 panels) and use the front and back glass panels as sliding front doors? You can get the glass track from bunnies. Just make the woodwork to suit the size of the glass?

Where mellomine is better than mdf, is even tho they both use nasty adhesives, mellomines plastic laminate outer panels keep the nasties inside, where mdf (especially if it gets wet) tends to continuously shed dust and therefore adhesive particles..... 
all just my own opinion


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## Porkbones (Dec 14, 2012)

Shaggz said:


> for hints on how to make styrofoam background just search this DIY forum, there are lots of builds here that show you step by step process of building them.


 Yea thanks saw a couple of great ones tht show u step by step

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CaptainRatbag said:


> The main trouble with using fish tanks for reptiles is the obvious lack of ventilation, if you have to use the fish tank, definately styrofoam would be best for heat insulation, and make sure the finished tank is in a place where there is a bit of a breeze, so some air can get into the bottom of the tank. If you were going to make the sides and back with timber panels, maybe think about making a bigger enclosure with mellomine or ply with vents, then cut the glass out of the fish tank (separate it into its 5 panels) and use the front and back glass panels as sliding front doors? You can get the glass track from bunnies. Just make the woodwork to suit the size of the glass?
> 
> Where mellomine is better than mdf, is even tho they both use nasty adhesives, mellomines plastic laminate outer panels keep the nasties inside, where mdf (especially if it gets wet) tends to continuously shed dust and therefore adhesive particles.....
> all just my own opinion




Thanks.only using th tank coz it was spare and laying around.quarter of the lid is mesh the rest is wood.i think next time I will build my own


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## -Peter (Dec 14, 2012)

MDF does not contain arsenic. The "harmful" agents it contains are softwood dust, urea/formaldehyde resin, paraffin wax and ammonia.


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## J-A-X (Dec 14, 2012)

dragonlover1 said:


> I think you will find MDF,particle board,chip board and melamine coated MDF all use arsenic or formaldehyde in their construction which is why I avoid them completely



these chemicals are only an issue if you inhale the dust while sawing/drilling etc, or if heated. you shouldnt have any timber (branches not included) in an enclosure unsealed. An unsealed timber enclosure will smell of urine pretty quickly.

formaldehyde is a naturally occuring substance found in a lot of fruit/veg and plants exrete it as a normal process. 
As with anything which produces a dust, even 'real' timber, you should wear the appropriate mask. I've recently started wearing masks, and i'm pretty amazed at what i was breathing in before. 

I'm not a fan of using fish tanks for reptiles long term, short term is fine (quarantine/hospital tank) but long term i suggest making one that will suit better.

As for fake rock building head over to the DIY group - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/groups/diy-enclosures-backgrounds-furniture-225/foamwork-430/


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## Porkbones (Dec 14, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> these chemicals are only an issue if you inhale the dust while sawing/drilling etc, or if heated. you shouldnt have any timber (branches not included) in an enclosure unsealed. An unsealed timber enclosure will smell of urine pretty quickly.
> 
> formaldehyde is a naturally occuring substance found in a lot of fruit/veg and plants exrete it as a normal process.
> As with anything which produces a dust, even 'real' timber, you should wear the appropriate mask. I've recently started wearing masks, and i'm pretty amazed at what i was breathing in before.
> ...



Thanks I will go and look, ok jus looked lol. I see for ur bonding agent u say PVA or bondall.wen u say bondall are u meaning pondtite?? I use bondcrete to seal and stick 2gther hebel blocks after I carve them.i see pondtite is mainly for around wet areas.
bondcrete says its non toxic and I know it sticks and seals really really well.do u see any problems if I was to use bondcrete to glue styrofoam 2gther in layers and then using it as a final sealing coat?


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 14, 2012)

Been using melamine for many many years with no problems.
As stated above there are only problems if continually breathing in the dust.


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## J-A-X (Dec 14, 2012)

I use pondtite on any area I've rendered, yes it dries shiney but some fine grade steel wool (not the stuff under the kitchen sink) will quickly knock any unwanted shine off - no heavy pressure required. 
I use pva/bondall in the first couple of layers of render to help it stick to the foam, I don't use it as a sealer. 
I've seen some people say the use sealer on the foam and then render but that makes no sense, water isn't going to bother the foam. I seal the last layer of render, after I've painted highlights on it, mainly to stop urine soaking in and stinking the place out, it makes cleaning a lot easier. 
I've only ever used a 'liquid nail' that is polystyrene friendly - and they state that on the tube, never had any drama.


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## Porkbones (Dec 14, 2012)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Been using melamine for many many years with no problems.
> As stated above there are only problems if continually breathing in the dust.




Ok,is it correct to say any wood can be used (MDF board or even treated Pine) as long as its sealed with say varnish


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## J-A-X (Dec 14, 2012)

Treated pine no, that leaches some nasty stuff - arsenic being one. The normal pine you get from bunnings isn't treated, it's only the landscaping timbers that are treated and they no longer uses the arsenic product as far as I know, I'm pretty sure they banned creosote (? Spelling) 
The normal construction timbers are fine, just mask up when cutting it and seal the inside with a waterbased polyeurethane if not rendering, for the same reasons I seal timber.


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## Porkbones (Dec 14, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> I use pondtite on any area I've rendered, yes it dries shiney but some fine grade steel wool (not the stuff under the kitchen sink) will quickly knock any unwanted shine off - no heavy pressure required.
> I've only ever used a 'liquid nail' that is polystyrene friendly - and they state that on the tube, never had any drama.



Sorry for going on bout pondtite/bondcrete but wen I googled our local bunnings shop nothing came up for pondtite hence why I was asking ur thoughts on bondcrete,it says its non toxic/non staining. Pondtite seems to be used in and around wet areas.i use bondcrete to seal and sumtimes stick 2gether my hebel carvings before they get put outside as it repels the water,don't want to go driving around for pondtite if the bondcrete I already have is just as good, also Bondcrete can be added to render etc...

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JaxRtfm said:


> Treated pine no, that leaches some nasty stuff - arsenic being one. The normal pine you get from bunnings isn't treated, it's only the landscaping timbers that are treated and they no longer uses the arsenic product as far as I know, I'm pretty sure they banned creosote (? Spelling)
> The normal construction timbers are fine, just mask up when cutting it and seal the inside with a waterbased polyeurethane if not rendering, for the same reasons I seal timber.



Great, this is a huge help thanks


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## J-A-X (Dec 14, 2012)

A lot of bunnings ( including my local) don't seem to stock it any more, I know mitre 10 still does. Crommelins (again not sure on the spelling) do a pond sealer that some other members use and say works well. Bondall makes bondcrete and pondtite,


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## Porkbones (Dec 14, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> A lot of bunnings ( including my local) don't seem to stock it any more, I know mitre 10 still does. Crommelins (again not sure on the spelling) do a pond sealer that some other members use and say works well. Bondall makes bondcrete and pondtite,



yea after i googled pondtite i saw bondall were the makers of both. i wonder if anyone has tried bondcrete?? thanks


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## -Peter (Dec 14, 2012)

Well, I see our DIY mod is fully up to the task.


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## J-A-X (Dec 15, 2012)

fully up to what task Peter? I've been the DIY guru/tragic around here for a few years, nothing's changed except now I have minor name change. I've always been happy to jump into DIY threads. 

I can't help with the bondcrete as sealer, I've never used it. Maybe it just comes down to wether or not you're happy to use it


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## RedFox (Dec 15, 2012)

Bunnings in Vic don't stock pondtite anymore. For some reason it is quite hard to find down here. I use the crommelin clear pond sealer. It works just as well. I then just lightly scratched the surface with steel wool like jax said. I found I only needed a small tub so itwirked out quite cheap.


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## Porkbones (Dec 15, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> fully up to what task Peter? I've been the DIY guru/tragic around here for a few years, nothing's changed except now I have minor name change. I've always been happy to jump into DIY threads.
> 
> I can't help with the bondcrete as sealer, I've never used it. Maybe it just comes down to wether or not you're happy to use it



thanks for all your answers.


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## -Peter (Dec 15, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> fully up to what task Peter?



? y o u a r e t h e n e w D Y I m o d.


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## Porkbones (Dec 15, 2012)

RedFox said:


> Bunnings in Vic don't stock pondtite anymore. For some reason it is quite hard to find down here. I use the crommelin clear pond sealer. It works just as well. I then just lightly scratched the surface with steel wool like jax said. I found I only needed a small tub so itwirked out quite cheap.



yea my local dont have it either (went in and looked yesterday).


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## J-A-X (Dec 15, 2012)

-Peter said:


> ? y o u a r e t h e n e w D Y I m o d.



 yes I'm one of them, Peterwookie is the other, knowing DIY isn't a prerequisite though, we're only here to make sure people adhere to the rules and play nice with each other. 

We seem to have diverted a little from the original query, so lets keep this one timber related


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## RedFox (Dec 15, 2012)

Having an interest in DIY would be beneficial to the DIY mods because you are more likely to spend more time looking through the threads.  From what I've seen so far Jax spends a lot of time,in the DIY forum. It is just a bonus to have such a helpful, passionate mod. 

As for the original question. If you are looking at covering three sides with wood you might as well just build a new enclosure. Bunnings have cheap melamine sheets 1200x595x16 for about $20ea. I spent under $150 on materials and it took a couple of hrs to build to build a 4x2x2. My python was exploring his new home a couple of days later once the silicon had aired.


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## Jacknife (Dec 15, 2012)

Melamine is fine, majority of enclosures are made out of the stuff.


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## Ramsayi (Dec 15, 2012)

MDF is fine as well.All my enclosures are made with MDF and are over 12 years old,they still are in very good condition.None of our snakes have developed cancer or anything else in that time.

As far as the OPs question goes yes you can use 6mm mdf to line the outsides of the tank.


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## Porkbones (Dec 18, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> MDF is fine as well.All my enclosures are made with MDF and are over 12 years old,they still are in very good condition.None of our snakes have developed cancer or anything else in that time.
> 
> As far as the OPs question goes yes you can use 6mm mdf to line the outsides of the tank.




Thanks, it's very hard as I hear different answers .most of what I heard was no dont use MDF,but here u are with no probs with the stuff at all.i wish I had seen this reply earlier as I've already made styrofoam backgrounds,thanks anyways


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 18, 2012)

.


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

At least now you'll have more choice if you decide to make one.
So where's the pics of the background ? Haven't you heard the unwritten rule of APS ? 
Pics or it didn't happen


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 20, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> The main trouble with using fish tanks for reptiles is the obvious lack of ventilation, if you have to use the fish tank, definately styrofoam would be best for heat insulation, and make sure the finished tank is in a place where there is a bit of a breeze, so some air can get into the bottom of the tank….


 There is a alternative to this, using the convection current generated by the heater…


Blue


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 20, 2012)

.


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## slim6y (Dec 20, 2012)

I haven't read everyones replies here - so if this has been said I apologise. 

I was in the tropics, Cairns, so heating wasn't usually an issue - however, I used a fish tank for my adult spotted python and she loved it. The tank I got was slightly defective, so not for water, so I got it cheap. As for heating, in the bottom, over my fake grass (I actually used marine carpet or shade cloth depending on my mood) I had bricks down the hot end. On the underneath of the glass I had a heat mat attached to a thermostat. Surprisingly it used to get a tad cold in Cairns from time to time.

The bricks would hold the heat for ages and the snake would bask on the bricks for long periods at a time.

The roof to the enclosure was Tasmanian oak frame with mouse wire - so it was completely open. 

During the hottest months I had a set of 4 computer fans wired up to a 12V transformer that moved air efficiently out of the tank and kept the tank much cooler. 

On the outside on the back wall and one of the side walls, I had the option of gluing some polystyrene - because it was on the outside of the tank it made no difference to the snake, no chemicals, no urine on it etc etc.

Plus I painted the polystyrene with water based paint, in blue... 

Personally, even if I do say so myself, it looked awesome!

Unfortunately, when I moved I broke the polystyrene and I never replaced it.

Make sure with the heat mat you use the feet provided to lift the tank off the ground to allow some air flow. 

This is the advice I can give to you from previous experience. 

Good luck


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 20, 2012)

*CaptainRatbag*,
I think you would be surprised at how efficient at moving air the set up in the diagram is. It is really easy to demonstrate for yourself. Get an empty fish tank and place a lit tealight candle inside at one end. Cover the middle two thirds of the open top with a piece of glass or wood or a towel or whatever. Allow a few minutes for it to establish then place a smoking incense stick in the open top, opposite side to the candle.

Using aquariums as enclosures presents problems with ventilation, heat retention and an escape proof lockable lid. Those who know what they are doing can overcome these problems. However, I would certainly not recommend it to any without a few years of keeping experience under their belt. Whilst there are always exceptions to the rule, I consider it a clear no no for any novice just starting.

Blue


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 20, 2012)

.


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## Gruni (Dec 20, 2012)

I didn't look where the OP is but I'm in northern NSW and I use a 2ft tank quite well for my Mac. I have covered three of the outer walls with fishtank background. It has worked well as an insulator but also because it sits in my wall unit. The temps have proved quite constant. And ventilation doesn't seem to be an issue.


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## Porkbones (Dec 21, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> At least now you'll have more choice if you decide to make one.
> So where's the pics of the background ? Haven't you heard the unwritten rule of APS ?
> Pics or it didn't happen



ummmmm lol shame .ill see if I can post sumthing up

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Bluetongue1 said:


> There is a alternative to this, using the convection current generated by the heater…
> View attachment 274754
> 
> Blue



thanks for that

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slim6y said:


> I haven't read everyones replies here - so if this has been said I apologise.
> 
> I was in the tropics, Cairns, so heating wasn't usually an issue - however, I used a fish tank for my adult spotted python and she loved it. The tank I got was slightly defective, so not for water, so I got it cheap. As for heating, in the bottom, over my fake grass (I actually used marine carpet or shade cloth depending on my mood) I had bricks down the hot end. On the underneath of the glass I had a heat mat attached to a thermostat. Surprisingly it used to get a tad cold in Cairns from time to time.
> 
> ...



Hey thanks heaps for tht.i have already made styrofoam walls well tried too for 3sides.am using a heat lamp not a mat.i have also made a wooden frame with mouse mesh but have covered the mesh on the lamp side with wood so the doesn't escape straight away and left the cool side just mesh

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Gruni said:


> I didn't look where the OP is but I'm in northern NSW and I use a 2ft tank quite well for my Mac. I have covered three of the outer walls with fishtank background. It has worked well as an insulator but also because it sits in my wall unit. The temps have proved quite constant. And ventilation doesn't seem to be an issue.
> 
> View attachment 274781
> View attachment 274782
> ...


oh looks good

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View attachment 274951


Hope this works.1st attempt at syyrofoam anything lol


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## ronhalling (Dec 22, 2012)

*Mdf msds*



Mo53sz said:


> I'm no expert but I believe Mdf in particular is formed together into boards using a glue that has arsenic or aspartame in it. I would think this would cause your pet some issues, especially in the long run. A lot of people use melamine for their enclosures.
> Otherwise If you need to use the Mdf then perhaps put it on the outside. Your other option is to make yourself a nice styrofoam background to line all three walls. Will give a great effect and is really easy to do. Have a look through the forum and on YouTube for plenty of tutorials
> 
> moses



Hey guys, i have seen in quite a few posts in the DIY section where there is confusion as to the pro's and con's of using MDF because of it's composition, Having been an interstate truck driver for all of my adult life i made a habit of getting the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for everything i carted just in case of fire or spillage in the case of an accident so the emergency services had on hand everything they needed on the products.
You can find the link (in pdf form) here http://www.chhwoodproducts.com.au/files/msds/MSDS-COLOURpyne-MDF-LPM-MSDS-43.pdf so if there is any problem in your minds about the safety of using MDF or HDF you will find all you need to know in the MSDS
Hope this helps

Ron


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## J-A-X (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks Ron, 
Ive read through it and these would be the two main points of concern
"Exposure: 
Eye: Due to product form and nature of use, the potential for exposure is reduced. Product may only present a hazard if dust is generated. Contact may result in mechanical irritation.
Inhalation: Exposure considered unlikely. An inhalation hazard is not anticipated unless cut, drilled or sanded with dust generation, which may result in irritation of the nose and throat. If heated, over exposure to fumes may result in irritation of the nose and throat, with nausea and headache. Formaldehyde is classified as a confirmed human carcinogen (IARC Group 1) and respiratory sensitiser. Repeated chronic exposure to uncontrolled wood dust increases the risk of nasal cavity cancer and lung fibrosis (scarring). "

Use common sense and use eye protection and a suitable mask, seal it well and be mindful that it can produce toxic fumes when heated.


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## Porkbones (Dec 22, 2012)

Hmmmm don't think that pic worked lol


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## Porkbones (Dec 31, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> Thanks Ron,
> Ive read through it and these would be the two main points of concern
> "Exposure:
> Eye: Due to product form and nature of use, the potential for exposure is reduced. Product may only present a hazard if dust is generated. Contact may result in mechanical irritation.
> ...



Hey there, since u know a bit about tanks an stuff.can u give me ur thoughts. I'm thinking about building a tank now for a 2nd snake.(picked up my little hatchie a couple days ago, so thr was no rush to do the styrofoam walls since its going b living in a click clack).ur thoughts on vents.... well actually placement of vents.have looked around and also on here an seen a few different ideas,(vents high an low on the cool end only,vents high on hot end,low on cool end,then also low on hot end a high on cool end lol,back wall only for vents,sides only for vents and every1 swears thr way is the right way, the tank will only be small as i will prob go for another spotted or sumthing so maybe around size of a 2foot fish tank like the 1 I converted.i had thought about 2or 3 of those little round vents down low at the cool end an then 2 or 3 up high at the warm end.then I read all this other conflicting stuff.so now asking on ur thoughts, cheers


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## J-A-X (Dec 31, 2012)

You've kind of hijacked your own thread LOL first it was what wood, now it's turned into vents  this might help you out and there are another couple I'll see if I can track down for you 

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/airflow-problems-new-enclosure-197245/[


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## Porkbones (Dec 31, 2012)

Didnt want to start another, thought ild just ask u on the existing thread lol if I start another I'm bound to get 50 different answers lol.my fish tank I converted had a good stable heat at 1 end an cooler at the other.just thought ild build 1

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JaxRtfm said:


> You've kind of hijacked your own thread LOL first it was what wood, now it's turned into vents  this might help you out and there are another couple I'll see if I can track down for you
> 
> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/airflow-problems-new-enclosure-197245/[



Yea had a read.actually read it a few days ago.interesting what diff people do and how they set up thr tanks


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