# Night time heating for beardys.



## the_chap (Apr 1, 2013)

Hey guys, I am looking at purchasing my first lizard (a black soil beardy) later this month after years of vested interest. One thing I am still unsure about is what to do for night time heating. I live in Newcastle (NSW) and see a lot of other members are from here as well. 

I've heard that heat mats aren't the best option, so maybe a ceramic heater? What are your opinions and what suits our area. Cheers


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## rednut90 (Apr 1, 2013)

the way i look at it is why do they need heating at night, they survive fine in the wild without any heat during the night why would it be any different just because there kept in an enclosure at home


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## Jacknife (Apr 1, 2013)

My beardy gets a 12 hour heat cycle, no heat at night.


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## Tobe404 (Apr 1, 2013)

rednut90 said:


> the way i look at it is why do they need heating at night, they survive fine in the wild without any heat during the night why would it be any different just because there kept in an enclosure at home



^^^ This
And in most cases it would be a LOT colder at night outside than inside.


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## the_chap (Apr 1, 2013)

Great guys, yeah it gets a bit chilly in winter in Newcastle but nothing too serious. So no heat source for night, and just a good hide, is recommended?


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## gregcranston (Apr 1, 2013)

Who says they all survive in the wild at night, a percentage would probably die or get sick, you dont want that happening to yours. Also pretty sure Newcastle is well outside its natural distribution range, they are from north central QLD. I would not let their temps drop too low (under 13 degrees) for an extended period of time. I would invest in either a ceramic heat emitter (on a thermostat) or another type of night globe, the thermostat doesnt need to be set very high.


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## gregcranston (Apr 1, 2013)

http://www.reptileone.com.au/caresheets/Black Soil Bearded dragon.pdf
This recommends not letting the temps drop below 16 degrees at night


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## Dutchy88 (Apr 1, 2013)

I don't heat mine at nyt and they are fine just a 12 hour day cycle is fine they will more than likelyburmantate through winter anyway its not a big issue it gets a hell of a lot colder of a nyt time in central Queensland then it does in newcastle


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## andynic07 (Apr 1, 2013)

gregcranston said:


> Who says they all survive in the wild at night, a percentage would probably die or get sick, you dont want that happening to yours. Also pretty sure Newcastle is well outside its natural distribution range, they are from north central QLD. I would not let their temps drop too low (under 13 degrees) for an extended period of time. I would invest in either a ceramic heat emitter (on a thermostat) or another type of night globe, the thermostat doesnt need to be set very high.


I am sure the overnight temperatures in central western Queensland would drop below zero. I would think as long as you have the right daytime heat it would not require night heat in Newcastle. My little bearded dragon doesn't get night heat but I am up in Brisbane.


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## Jacknife (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm down in Melbourne and give mine no night heat, like most folk down here, and they all survive just fine.


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## bigjoediver (Apr 1, 2013)

In the wild they don't stand around in the cold night air so natural ambient air temps are irrelevant. More important is the temp inside the hide.


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## gregcranston (Apr 1, 2013)

I've had friends beardies die from respiratory infections after being left outside over winter with temps around 6-7 on a fairly consistent basis. I wouldn't risk it, but just monitor the temps, you may find that inside their hides, in their enclosure which is inside your house, the temp hardly ever gets below 12 degrees anyway and even then not for long.


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## gregcranston (Apr 1, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I am sure the overnight temperatures in central western Queensland would drop below zero.


Cloncurry in North-West QLD is a hot-spot of their natural distribution and average minimum temps are in the 10-12 degree range, never been below zero there. Get your facts straight guys before you start giving health advice. Is everyone talking the black-soil beardies (_Pogona henrylawsoni)_ when they talk about what they do with their beardies. As they have a much more restricted range and therefore different care requirements than your centrals or easterns.
I'd be following the care sheet, better to be safe than sorry!


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## andynic07 (Apr 1, 2013)

gregcranston said:


> Cloncurry in North-West QLD is a hot-spot of their natural distribution and average minimum temps are in the 10-12 degree range, never been below zero there. Get your facts straight guys before you start giving health advice. Is everyone talking the black-soil beardies (_Pogona henrylawsoni)_ when they talk about what they do with their beardies. As they have a much more restricted range and therefore different care requirements than your centrals or easterns.
> I'd be following the care sheet, better to be safe than sorry!


I did not give any health advice, I was just stating that within the central bearded dragons range I thought the temps would drop below zero. I also stated that I do not provide night heat for my bearded dragon who is in an enclosure in my house and near Brisbane.


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## dragonlover1 (Apr 1, 2013)

I have both central and black soil (pygmy) bearded dragons,I live near Sydney and DO NOT use night time heat.It almost never gets below 15C here,if it did I use a heater to warm the room. In the more than 6 years I have lost 1 dragon to heat stroke & 1 eggbound so excess heat is more of a worry than cold


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## bigjoediver (Apr 1, 2013)

I wasn't giving any health advice, I was pointing out the fact that most diurnal reptiles wouldn't be outside breathing cold night air, they would be nicely tucked away in a burrow or hide or underneath dry leaf matter etc conserving body heat. This makes the statements that "the night temps drop to so and so in their range" a little pointless as they are not out in it. A better piece of info would be " the overnight temp in their burrow/hide is x degrees C or is not usually below x degrees C ". Where this info can be found I'm not sure but would be helpful in the to heat at night or not debate.


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 5, 2013)

I know for a fact central bearded dragons are found in one area of Western NSW where tenperatures regularly get to 0 during winter. I can also vouch to having found eastern bearded dragons in trees in night asleep relatively exposed to the elements.


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## 33s152e (Apr 5, 2013)

My 3 x 6 month old CBDs have had 24/7 heating in their rearing 110L tubs since we bought them at 6 weeks old.

The 24/7 heating is via 7W heatpads (sandwiched between 2 layers of tiles) and these are controlled by on/off thermostats set at 37oC. They have overhead heating / UV A+B during the day too. And if the o/head heating fails they still have access to their heatpads and sufficient heat to digest their food.

They love them. They can crawl off and cool off in the cooler areas of their tubs overnight if they want but seem to prefer to sleep on their heatpads.

They are also in the warmest room in the house so never experience temperatures under 24oC.

IMO opinion, there's no harm in providing o/night heating, it helps the beardies digest and metabolise their food overnight , mine usually wake up hungry in the morning.
If they spend the last of their night off the heatpad , they take a while get going in the morning .


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## gregcranston (Apr 5, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> I know for a fact central bearded dragons are found in one area of Western NSW where tenperatures regularly get to 0 during winter. I can also vouch to having found eastern bearded dragons in trees in night asleep relatively exposed to the elements.


Centrals and Easterns, we're talking about the pymgy's!!!!!


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## 33s152e (Apr 5, 2013)

^^ yes , don't their territories in the wild overlap. 

Smaller dragons will cool off faster so probably need night time heat even more so - if you want them to survive in cooler locations .


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> My 3 x 6 month old CBDs have had 24/7 heating in their rearing 110L tubs since we bought them at 6 weeks old.
> 
> The 24/7 heating is via 7W heatpads (sandwiched between 2 layers of tiles) and these are controlled by on/off thermostats set at 37oC. They have overhead heating / UV A+B during the day too. And if the o/head heating fails they still have access to their heatpads and sufficient heat to digest their food.
> 
> ...



That is an excessive amount of heating and the heatpad is not a wise choice for a bearded dragon. I live in Melbourne and none of my lizards dragons with the exception of my frilly, get heating overnight. Most peoples houses do not get cold enough overnight. They also shouldn't need to digest overnight as they should be fed early in the day.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> That is an excessive amount of heating and the heatpad is not a wise choice for a bearded dragon. I live in Melbourne and none of my lizards dragons with the exception of my frilly, get heating overnight. Most peoples houses do not get cold enough overnight. They also shouldn't need to digest overnight as they should be fed early in the day.


 Probably correct for ADULT dragons who are fed only a few times a week. 

Mine are not ADULTS and need feeding in the am and in the pm and so need access to a source of heat to aid overnight digestion (IMO) so they get it.

You are welcome to heat your dragons in any way you choose.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> Probably correct for ADULT dragons who are fed only a few times a week.
> 
> Mine are not ADULTS and need feeding in the am and in the pm and so need access to a source of heat to aid overnight digestion (IMO) so they get it.
> 
> You are welcome to heat your dragons in any way you choose.


Yours are 6 months old, they do not need feeding am and Pm. I have dragons of all ages and also work with dragons of all ages.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Yours are 6 months old, they do not need feeding am and Pm. I have dragons of all ages and also work with dragons of all ages.


Ref Bearded Dragon Manual , I can cite the page if you want ( p58 ), you are incorrect. At 6 months old 2 live food feedings per day are indicated.

Starve your dragons if you want and for your own convenience..


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> Ref Bearded Dragon Manual , I can cite the page if you want (p58), you are incorrect. At 6 months old 2 live food feeding per day are indicated.
> 
> Starve your dragons if you want.


The Bearded Dragon Manual is American, I have plenty of Australian books and experience with dragons, I'll stick with that thanks. Contrast the beardie on the front with the one on the cover of Keeping Bearded Dragons (or similar) by Darren Green if you want to see the difference between a healthy beardie and an overweight one. Feel free to look at my albums, none of my dragons are starving.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> The Bearded Dragon Manual is American, I have plenty of Australian books and experience with dragons, I'll stick with that thanks. Contrast the beardie on the front with the one on the cover of Keeping Bearded Dragons (or similar) by Darren Green if you want to see the difference between a healthy beardie and an overweight one.



When people say they have lots of experience as their reason for disputing something, it's worthless as often the experience includes years of thinking misinformation is right or factual , bad habit propogation and is simply wrong. You'll have to do better than that.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> When people say they have lots of experience as their reason for disputing something, it's worthless as often the experience includes years of thinking misinformation is right or factual , bad habit propogation and is simply wrong. You'll have to do better than that.


Seriously, don't take a tiny bit of a post out of context. You can think what you want but stop hijacking peoples threads. The OP asked about night time heating, as you do not even have correct day time heating you are not in any position to offer advice. Many people answering this thread have a wealth of experience and advice to offer so let them do it.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> I know for a fact central bearded dragons are found in one area of Western NSW where tenperatures regularly get to 0 during winter. I can also vouch to having found eastern bearded dragons in trees in night asleep relatively exposed to the elements.


Queensland university recently did a study on womas and they found womas 10 metres up trees snacking on sleeping beardies.:shock:


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Seriously, don't take a tiny bit of a post out of context. You can think what you want but stop hijacking peoples threads. The OP asked about night time heating, as you do not even have correct day time heating you are not in any position to offer advice. Many people answering this thread have a wealth of experience and advice to offer so let them do it.


I answered on topic . YOU TOOK IT OFF TOPIC at post 21.


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## JasmineZ (Apr 8, 2013)

You can't say "oh they're fine out in the wild and it's freezing". Our job is to make sure we are giving them the best life in captivity possible. Many dragons in the wild would not survive during the winter months and those that do have to option to look for the best place to keep warm while in our case our pets are in a confined space. 
Once upon a time I had a similar view but the vets at Brisbane Birds and Exotics as well as many other people changed my opinion on this quite a while ago once I started doing my research.
I guess it is a personal choice, no your beardie won't die but to me It's not that much work for me to make sure it's a little warmer at night.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

Most peoples homes do not drop below the preferred range, ie 15C overnight as most people don't like to be cold and have heating on until they go to bed in winter in cold states. If you have a nice rock basking spot that can heat up all day the lizards would not experience minus temperatures overnight. If they are in a shed or similar maybe.


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## Wally (Apr 8, 2013)

Straight out of the egg mine get no night time heating. And I'm in Melbourne.


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 8, 2013)

JasmineZ said:


> You can't say "oh they're fine out in the wild and it's freezing". Our job is to make sure we are giving them the best life in captivity possible. Many dragons in the wild would not survive during the winter months and those that do have to option to look for the best place to keep warm while in our case our pets are in a confined space.
> Once upon a time I had a similar view but the vets at Brisbane Birds and Exotics as well as many other people changed my opinion on this quite a while ago once I started doing my research.
> I guess it is a personal choice, no your beardie won't die but to me It's not that much work for me to make sure it's a little warmer at night.



While I agree in order to have the highest success rate with animals in captivity means merely replicating their natural environment is often not enough I disagree with your point. See you need to look at it from a view point which includes no anthropomorphic views what so ever. What you're not considering is that I (for instance) was stating average winter minimum temperatures taken over decades that these animals have evolved to handle. While yes some would die because they are not strong enough to survive it is likely this wouldn't be because it was simply too cold, more likely there would be a deformity or issue which prevented it from gaining enough condition before the cold set in. Remember these animals have evolved for THOUSANDS of years. 

So if these animals are exposed to temperates of <5 C on a regular basis and are restricted to hiding under a fallen log then your bearded dragon kept inside, often in a wooden enclosure that has a hot spot of 40-50 C during the day and an ambient temperature of 25 C, has hides provided within the cage which is kept in an INSULATED house should have no worries handling whatever temperature winter can throw at it considering almost every house will have some form of heating during winter and even those who don't are unlikely to ever get much below 10 C.

So no providing heating overnight is not going to harm them but in a lot of cases it isn't neccessary and is a cost some people would not be able to justify. 

I am talking about CENTRALS here, which while slightly off topic is still relevent to the direction the thread has headed.


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## JasmineZ (Apr 8, 2013)

mcloughlin2 said:


> While I agree in order to have the highest success rate with animals in captivity means merely replicating their natural environment is often not enough I disagree with your point. See you need to look at it from a view point which includes no anthropomorphic views what so ever. What you're not considering is that I (for instance) was stating average winter minimum temperatures taken over decades that these animals have evolved to handle. While yes some would die because they are not strong enough to survive it is likely this wouldn't be because it was simply too cold, more likely there would be a deformity or issue which prevented it from gaining enough condition before the cold set in. Remember these animals have evolved for THOUSANDS of years.
> 
> So if these animals are exposed to temperates of <5 C on a regular basis and are restricted to hiding under a fallen log then your bearded dragon kept inside, often in a wooden enclosure that has a hot spot of 40-50 C during the day and an ambient temperature of 25 C, has hides provided within the cage which is kept in an INSULATED house should have no worries handling whatever temperature winter can throw at it considering almost every house will have some form of heating during winter and even those who don't are unlikely to ever get much below 10 C.
> 
> ...



I understand that, but as I stated it is a personal choice of mine. I don't feel like it's much of an effort for me to provide them with a bit more heat but as you said everyone's situation is different but for me it works and for where I keep my beardies I am more comfortable providing them with some night time heat. I don't push this on anyone and I don't have anything against those who choose not to use night time heat because, well, the majority of people don't. I don't provide night time heat for my water dragon but he is kept somewhere else and in a different type of enclosure etc. different factors influence this choice.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

^^ As per JasmineZ's comments. Costs virtually nothing and is no effort to keep 3x 7W + 1x 5W heatpads running 24/7 and my beardies and ESW benefit in many ways.
BTW - I keep our split rev/cycle a/c running 24/7 to keep the entire house warm in the cooler months , power to do this is not enough to worry about.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

Not even going to start on the constant metabolising that happens when lizards aren't able to cool off. Maybe you should watch Lizards of Oz, its a bit dated but it shows exactly how much time dragons that live in arid areas actually spend out in the heat before they seek cool retreats again. Nothing likes to be hot 24/7


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 8, 2013)

33s152e said:


> ^^ As per JasmineZ's comments. Costs virtually nothing and is no effort to keep 3x 7W + 1x 5W heatpads running 24/7 and my beardies and ESW benefit in many ways.
> BTW - I keep our split rev/cycle a/c running 24/7 to keep the entire house warm in the cooler months , power to do this is not enough to worry about.


Please explain the many ways they benefit from this.


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## 33s152e (Apr 8, 2013)

KaotikJezta said:


> Not even going to start on the constant metabolising that happens when lizards aren't able to cool off. Maybe you should watch Lizards of Oz, its a bit dated but it shows exactly how much time dragons that live in arid areas actually spend out in the heat before they seek cool retreats again. Nothing likes to be hot 24/7


They can cool off and do , simply by crawling off the heatpad and even sitting in their water (they do this sometimes during the day and probably also at night ) , 2/3 of their area is cool (room ambient temp) only 1/3 occupied by their heatpads .... time to drop it mate . I will not be second guessing my practices on this as I know it works.


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## matt_oakford (Apr 9, 2013)

With my CENTRALIAN bearded dragons (i have 3) I like to leave my heat mat on 24/7 and I have a uvb light on for about 11-13 hours a day an it's off overnight my lizards seem to cope great and there digestion is aok they still live in Alice springs with my sister sadly an I miss them lots but I had to move. That's centralians though I'd do some research an find what they need but I find its a bit of a mixed idea on what is "right" but I think there is plenty of ways to do it an it's your preference 
as for lizards being outside in winter. The centralians bury them selves an things like that or even climb into piles of leaves an foliage an the rotting an decaying leaves actually give off just enough heat to keep there body slightly warm the piles of leaves one I can't remember that well but it's something like that. In Alice springs the temperature drops well below 0 degrees Celsius an I remember once going to work in the morning an riding a horse an it was minus 7 Celsius an I actually got a snotsicle hanging out my nose it was frozen! So I can back that it gets cold but again as has already been stated the animals that Do die have some sort of problems or disorder that make them die poor little things please don't yell at me people if I have written any wrong info please just correct me

Sent from my LG-P705 using Tapatalk 2


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## mws4life (Apr 9, 2013)

We have always provided night time heat for hatchies until about 9 months old. You do not want them brumating through there first winter, theyre not big enough. We have a heat mat under 1 end of the tank and find they sleep on it more often than not. When theyre a bit bigger, they get put in melamine tanks with no night time heating. Find the melamine holds the heat way better than a glass tank.


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