# Opinions



## PDM_Pythons (May 16, 2014)

Is it just me or is this forum lacking people posting lately and the forum numbers viewing is taking a downward spiral...just after some thoughts to y?:?


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## baker (May 16, 2014)

Facebook is the main reason. So many people are going to the reptile groups there instead of bothering to come to a separate forum. Plus this forum has a bad reputation to a lot of people so they are also steering away. 
Cheers Cameron


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## saximus (May 16, 2014)

I disagree Cameron. I’ve been on this forum for about five years now and people have been going on about the apparent waning popularity of the site for that whole time. Facebook has had an effect on forums but from my experience, every year there is a fairly typical posting cycle:

Over the previous month or two you get the posts from people wondering why their snakes aren’t eating because things are cooling down and the animals are naturally switching themselves off. 
Then about this time, things are really slowing down with animals so the posting also slows down to probably the least amount for the whole year. 
In a month or so, you will get the people talking about and showing off photos of pairings and then following that, photos off clutches being laid. 
Then you will see the posts about new hatchies arriving, followed by a wave of newer breeders asking how to get their neonates to feed.
After that, breeders will be selling their hatchies so you will get the flood of generic noob posts to aggravate the old hats.
Then, we’ll be getting into summer again and animals are in their highest activity period and there will be plenty more posting activity again.

This is obviously a fairly generic overview but that’s been my observation of the yearly cycle on here.


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## PDM_Pythons (May 16, 2014)

Yer the good ol FB... Tried it lately and was not greatly impressed with people sharing stuff ( but was still working the settings out lol).. And people advertising on your own advert ( quite Rudd IMO) also the usual know it alls that feed live bla bla bla... I prefer forums and agree there is a cycle there Sax,,, it just just seem to be as lively as it used to be buts that's just my view for the moment... Hope things change as it's been a busy place last few yrs


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## saximus (May 16, 2014)

Like I said, it's always really quiet this time of year. Even the field herpers and catchers won't be getting as much so there's just not much to talk about


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## Kurama (May 16, 2014)

Facebook is a cancer killing forums everywhere.

Another reason that this forum isn't as popular any more is because of they way its moderated.


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## Jacknife (May 16, 2014)

Kurama said:


> Facebook is a cancer killing forums everywhere.



Careful careful...

See...


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## Norm (May 16, 2014)

I had noticed the same thing about there not being much activity lately. And I agree with the cycle thing but I still think things are definitely slower than usual. Shame because its a great time waster!


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## andynic07 (May 16, 2014)

I think that it is quieter than usual.


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## DarwinBrianT (May 16, 2014)

I had a motorbike forum for years, it was awesome fun. I put a lot of my time/money into it but in the end facebook got the better of it. I just hope the people that run this site keep doing what they have been doing, if its not broken don't try to fix it. You will never keep everyone happy, I say quality should win over quantity every time, that's where I went wrong. Just my 2c worth.


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## PDM_Pythons (May 16, 2014)

andynic07 said:


> I think that it is quieter than usual.


Don't sit on the fence mate ... Just say what's on ya mind


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## Norm (May 16, 2014)

I look at the lack of activity on here and think I probably should comment on more threads, after all its simple really, the more people commenting, the more activity.


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## andynic07 (May 16, 2014)

I haven't really found many threads that I am interested in so feel it would be just commenting for the sake of it. I am not sure about the moderators doing what they do having anything to do with the drop in popularity. Whilst I don't always agree with how the moderators do their job I think that you get the same or worst on Facebook. I am sure Facebook has had a lot to do with the decrease in activity but more because there is the same number of people or maybe more spread over more sites. I am not sure what the site can do to increase popularity but think something needs to be done.


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## Norm (May 16, 2014)

I think I need to choose my words carefully here but I agree the new batch of moderators seem to be quite strict and the drop in activity has to a point coincided with their appointment. It seems changes were made to stop people being driven away but it seems to have come at a greater cost. At the same time I applaud the moderators for doing what is a thankless, time consuming, difficult job. I certainly have no desire to do it.


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## Stuart (May 16, 2014)

There a couple of intresting perspectives put forward on your question PDM and I only wanted to try and address one side of the lower numbers thought pattern if I may?

Being a mod on APS (or any forum) isn't easy as before we have even submitted our first post as a moderators a few individuals have already pinned us down as power hungry individuals, idiots, suck ups and all sorts of unpleasant words I won't share here. In saying that, we give up our time and effort in order to try and ensure a level of pleasantness and assemblance of order across all the forums. Sometimes we make unpopular decisions and sometimes we make incorrect decisions however we are ordinary people who for the most part will acknowledge our mistakes.

A couple of individuals have made reference to the way the site is moderated or that its percieved we are too strict or over moderate which is interesting as no one to date, since the new moderators were chosen, has submitted a ticket, sent a PM or made mention of the fact except on an open forum where the comment is left open ended with no specifics. 

As such, Im extending an open invitation to all members that if you have an idea on where we are being too strict or overmoderating, have made a bad decision or just have some questions, concerns or ideas, to please PM me. By PMing me there will be no risk of Rule 13 breaches and I will make sure that each PM is addressed and no judgment will be passed. It's not something I am aware of thats been done before, but Im willing to offer up the opportunity to listen and take things into consideration if you are willing to share your thoughts.

Have a pleasant evening
Stuart


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## CrystalMoon (May 16, 2014)

SC, that may just open up a whole new can of worms lol (meant in jest)For the most part I think you all do a pretty good job. You cant please all of the people all of the time. I have moderated on a few forums, it can be a thankless job that consumes a lot of time. I dont know? I reckon it does just ebb and flow(comments/members on this site etc) I had a break from the internet for awhile, the site does seem a tad more serious? but that is not always a bad thing. My sense of humor can need reigning in at times  I still enjoy the forum and learn so much from the experienced members on here  
Kindest regards Crystal


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## pinefamily (May 16, 2014)

We have probably been a bit quiet ourselves lately, due to a number of reasons (some personal). Managing our reptile collection, and upsizing some enclosures have taken a lot of our spare time.


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## Senator358 (May 16, 2014)

Every where's quiet in the rep world atm, even fb. This is the time of the year when breeders can take a bit of a break and there's no hatchies to show photos of.


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## junglepython2 (May 16, 2014)

I've been a member for nearly 8 years and there has definitely been a steady decrease over the last 3 or so years and this is the quietest it has ever been by a long shot. The over moderation doesn't help and is probably the reason chat died some time ago but it has been much worse at times in the past and activity was still high so I think facebook is the main culprit.


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## ReptileGirls (May 16, 2014)

Lots of people (and most) strive on getting there questions answered on Yahoo Answers. Some answers aren't correct but you do get your occasional expert, you'd really hope so.


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## Jacknife (May 17, 2014)

I blame Masterchef.


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## whiteshadow (May 17, 2014)

I find this forum very busy compared to another I am on. Being a Noob as put in one of the comments, I am the one asking silly questions that an experienced person may find annoying. However if I am asking the questions here I am asking because I want to learn. I do not expect to be belittled or harashed. So for the expericed ppl and the Noobs this is a great place to lean and share. 

Anthony
aka White Shadow


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## borntobnude (May 17, 2014)

Its cold , or at least cooler now so I go to work in the dark -- come home in the dark cook dinner for the family they watch CRAP on telly ( my opinion of ALL of the "reality" shows ) I look on the computer and go to bed early 

Repeat this all week and there's not much brain power left for coming on here and posting


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## Woma_Wild (May 17, 2014)

I read but don't post much because in the early days, a few times I got told " google it" which defeats the purpose of this forum. 
Since then, I read here, read my books or talk to people that are happy to share their knowledge and experience. 
My pythons are great, healthy and all is good.
I do have new babies - 6 chicks in a brooder. Want to help me name them ?


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## DarwinBrianT (May 17, 2014)

Woma_Wild said:


> I read but don't post much because in the early days, a few times I got told " google it" which defeats the purpose of this forum.
> Since then, I read here, read my books or talk to people that are happy to share their knowledge and experience.
> My pythons are great, healthy and all is good.
> I do have new babies - 6 chicks in a brooder. Want to help me name them ?


I think you hit the nail on the head right there. When people do ask a question they get told to buy this book and use the search button. That covers just about everything right there. I guess you get/got what you asked for and the result is no need to post unless you want to show off a pic or have a really technical question. just my 2c


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## pinefamily (May 17, 2014)

While we have kept reptiles for a while, we have expanded our collection into species that we haven't known as much about. That's how we came to find APS in the first place . Reading through old threads helped a lot, and what we couldn't find, we posted a question. Now, we see that a lot. Someone will post a question, and get told to use the search button. It's not necessarily the wrong answer, but it does make for fewer new threads. Maybe a short reply to help out these new questions, and then point them in the direction of other threads.
Also, as much as newer members might become annoying asking the same things over and over, maybe some of the long term members need to stop and think before posting sarcastic and negative comments. Everybody has to start somewhere, even if they don't use the common sense approach of reading through older threads on the forum first. Similarly with younger members, who in their youthful enthusiasm may post some dubious things (snakes with hats comes to mind), we need to stop and take the time to explain and educate, rather than burn or crucify them.
Lastly, this great hobby of ours has so many variables and variations, and sometimes there is more than one "right" way to go about things, so let's keep an open mind if someone does suggest something different. Yes, there will always be some no-no's, but sometimes other ways might also work (choices of substrate as an example).

Just our two cents worth.
Cheers.


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## Norm (May 17, 2014)

Seeing people told to google it is a pet hate of mine about this forum, here we are discussing ways to increase the activity on this site and we continually direct people away from it! Sounds like something a politician would do! And I`ve mentioned before that I don't find the search function easy to use or gives me the info I`m looking for. Let people ask their stupid question and if it doesn't interest you or you cant be bothered to reply because its been covered hundreds of times, ignore it. Someone will eventually help them out.


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## jacques92 (May 17, 2014)

Just my 2 cents worth.
aps is a great site with a hell of lot good information and helpfull people!
Butt
i have seen time again where newbies got burned for asking something silly.
That yes maybe they could have google it or should have bought this book or that book.
and there is a lot of bashing each other when it comes to hybrids,cross breeds jags zebras and a whole list of others things and quickly become personal insted of making valid pionts .
it might be a good idee to do some more adevertising for aps on other forums and facebook to get a few new members.
Maybe a couple more stickys would keep the basic questions at bay.


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## apprenticegnome (May 17, 2014)

Generally I find APS a great site but I do feel that there is over deleting of trivial posts. I am reluctant to post these days because there is a holier than though attitude held by some of the so called mature people on here that want to draw imaginary lines in the sand as to what class you belong. Apparently theres even a class called a melamine keeper who does not love reptiles. No wonder newbies and people who don't distinguish themselves as a higher being are driven away or reluctant to post. The being told to use the search button and not be spoon fed is another deterent on here also. If any posts need deleting it would be these sort of posts so people would not be discouraged from this site.


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## MissDangerous (May 17, 2014)

I have learnt so much from this forum, and access it several times a day, yet I don't post much at all. Often it is because I simply do not have the knowledge or experience to contribute anything useful! I have used the search function and google both as ways to answer most of my questions, and find that sometimes the search function doesn't quite bring up what I want.. Especially in the case of a specific thread I've seen before and am trying to access again. However, usually where search fails, Google will bring it up eventually. 

I think the issue of retaining members may in part come down to the way posts are directed and received, especially from experienced keepers to newbies. As newbies, it can be hard to understand why a reasonable question is met with disdain or abruptness. From their perspective they are trying to seek help from those in the know, and can help them look after their reptile in the best possible way. To play devils advocate here, and I could be ENTIRELY wrong, but for the experienced keepers who have been passionate about herps longer than some of the newbies have been alive, these repetitive questions about basic reptile needs and functions are not just irritating due to their prevalence, but also their content. It may feel like these newbies are just playing around with a 'pet' they know nothing about, which is potentially putting an innocent animal at a high risk or illness, discomfort or even death. I think this may be the cause for some of the abruptness that can be perceived as rudeness, when really it all stems from concerns about animal welfare. 

I did a lot of research before I bought my snake, both on here and speaking with other keepers. I still sought general opinions on my initial set up, and was given a huge amount of help from people on here. Changing substrate and tweaking temps, as well as buying a thermostat, were things I did directly in relation to the advice I received here. 

I am very grateful for what I have learned, and will continue to stalk this site. I have read all sorts of interesting debate ranging from the breeding of specific reptiles and the history of the herp hobby, to intense political debates and photo sharing threads of people's collections. APS is wonderful due to its diversity, both in topics and the people who post them. There will always be conflict, disagreements, and criticisms on how things are run, but overall I love this forum. Personally I think the mods do a great job in eliminating the name calling, swearing and unnecessary posts from what can become a long winded thread. I don't think the problem lies there. 

Ultimately, I think some people leave this site because they take the advice they receive as a personal criticism, instead of seeing an opportunity to better the life of their reptile. Unfortunately this can't really be changed. We can all try and treat each other with respect and be courteous, but as an online Internet forum drawing together such a wide variety if people, there are bound to be social clashes. 

If you receive some advice and think "gee that's a bit harsh, why are they being so rude?", maybe stop to think about why this may be the case. If it's that the welfare of your animal has been compromised, instead of being offended, be grateful that someone has helped to make you a better keeper. 

I enjoy my time on APS, and though I've only been here since the start of the year, I know I'll be sticking around. 

OP, you did ask for opinions, I'm sorry mine became an essay!


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## PDM_Pythons (May 18, 2014)

One thing I noticed is the conflict between the purists and the morph breeders...other sites etc openly show off and talk about them but NOT HERE... Shame really as I keep ants carpets and yes I do own a morph!!... And at times feel like I'm looked down at... But these people don't know me... Some accept and some don't... It's a hobby and an enjoyable one and we should all get on...it's to late to go back so we should go forward... JMO


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## FAY (May 18, 2014)

I have a bit of a laugh on FB. The ones that get on there and bag out APS...are admins on FB groups...doing exactly to group members that they were whingeing about being done to them on here.


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## insitu (May 19, 2014)

people take too much offence on here to bother posting most of the time, gone are the days you could have a stir with your mates without having posts deleted, and its generally not worth your while correcting someone or offering advice as everyone jumps strait on the defensive, plus no one likes ackies anymore


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## pinefamily (May 19, 2014)

Who doesn't like ackies? Lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## eipper (May 19, 2014)

Over policed, an argument or three is good for the soul. It's an Internet forum thick skin is a requirement. Stalkbook has take away some traffic but has generated it too.

ch


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## Stuart (May 19, 2014)

I've been pleasantly surprised at the responses I have been getting via PM, thanks all who have taken the time out to fire something through.

I am still interested to hear more on the deleted posts or over moderation issues so please PM me as I wouldn't mind reviewing things to see where we could have done something different.

Regards
Stuart


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## andynic07 (May 19, 2014)

SniperCap said:


> I've been pleasantly surprised at the responses I have been getting via PM, thanks all who have taken the time out to fire something through.
> 
> I am still interested to hear more on the deleted posts or over moderation issues so please PM me as I wouldn't mind reviewing things to see where we could have done something different.
> 
> ...


On the over moderation part I do not have specific examples and don't really want to go through numerous threads to find any so this is why I have not PM'ed but find that very often a thread is posted and discussed and the natural progression of the discussion takes it off topic to the original subject but quite relevant and these are sometimes deleted as off topic. Lately these topics are being broken away to new threads for discussion which is a step in the right direction.


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## junglepython2 (May 19, 2014)

insitu said:


> people take too much offence on here to bother posting most of the time, gone are the days you could have a stir with your mates without having posts deleted, and its generally not worth your while correcting someone or offering advice as everyone jumps strait on the defensive, plus no one likes ackies anymore



Agreed. To many experienced members have been banned or discouraged from posting, in fear or upsetting a few thin skinned newbies. There are still plenty of newbies, but the experienced members are now lacking.


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## Inkage (May 19, 2014)

I think people that have been in this hobby long enough mostly despise other people and cant be bothered communicating anymore.. Forums..Facebook..Telephone calls…Eh..


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## andynic07 (May 19, 2014)

junglepython2 said:


> Agreed. To many experienced members have been banned or discouraged from posting, in fear or upsetting a few thin skinned newbies. There are still plenty of newbies, but the experienced members are now lacking.


I think that you are probably right to some extent but not sure if you are aware that if people leave on their own accord that it puts there membership as suspended.


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## Jacknife (May 19, 2014)

I'd say what I felt was wrong with this forum, but it'd probably be deleted and I'd get infractions/banned.


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## Stuart (May 19, 2014)

Jacknife said:


> I'd say what I felt was wrong with this forum, but it'd probably be deleted and I'd get infractions/banned.



Thats why you have been given an open door option to voice it via PM.


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## andynic07 (May 19, 2014)

Jacknife said:


> I'd say what I felt was wrong with this forum, but it'd probably be deleted and I'd get infractions/banned.


It obviously isn't that bad or you wouldn't use the forum but you as many probably have aspects that you don't like and this is a chance to b constructive about what you think is wrong and have some input to how you would like it so it would be good if you choose to take this chance to improve our forum.


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## montysrainbow (May 19, 2014)

I don't always post or comment but I read on here lots. I go through stages with real life being so busy it's hard sometimes. I have found my time on here quite pleasant lol I got into a bit of trouble at the start but mods weren't too harsh on me.


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## Jacknife (May 19, 2014)

PM'd...


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## CrazyNut (May 20, 2014)

To be honest I think facebook is a great sorce of info especially in the larger groups like Inverts & Herps but I rather the forums simply because its a lot more concentrated and there seems to be a wider and larger ammount of extremely knowledgable people. As for the activity, I haven't been on here for that long but if there is a slow then it's probably due to reptiles preparing to shutdown for winter or have already shut down and are waiting for warmer weather to role in.


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## marcus0002 (May 23, 2014)

I have noticed a slowdown, a lot more than last year. Just look at he number of unread topics on the main page.
A lot of people have moved over to facebook groups because they are sick of people on here getting easily offended and jumping up and down over nothing. 
The Australian Representative herp body thread is a classic. For each post someone puts that is constructive someone writes something retarded in response and then kicks up a stink when they get called out on it. A few thin skinned and easily offended individuals on here are pushing people away.


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## Mr.Self-destruct (May 26, 2014)

Most of my more serious herping friends scoff at me being on this board. It doesn't have a good reputation and I've seen some of the reasons why as Marcus0002 already described. Lots of people wait to pounce on folks for any reason. People seem to behave in a more "adult" manner on FB because it is less anonymous.


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## marcus0002 (May 26, 2014)

Look at the name for aussie reptile keepers association thread for more of this

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## CrazyNut (May 26, 2014)

marcus0002 said:


> I have noticed a slowdown, a lot more than last year. Just look at he number of unread topics on the main page.
> A lot of people have moved over to facebook groups because they are sick of people on here getting easily offended and jumping up and down over nothing.
> The Australian Representative herp body thread is a classic. For each post someone puts that is constructive someone writes something retarded in response and then kicks up a stink when they get called out on it. A few thin skinned and easily offended individuals on here are pushing people away.


Doesn't that sort of thing violate the rule that states be tolerant of other members? And assuming this forum has this option, but do they not know what an ignore list is and how to use it? Call me ignorant but I don't see why people have such a problem with this forum and why they take things to heart. I see more of that sort of thing on Facebook then on here. I did see a while ago someoen on Facebook black listed this forum, maybe this is another reason why you are seeing a slow down. People tend to act like sheep in the fact that they follow each other and believe everything they read


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## marcus0002 (May 26, 2014)

I don't know what am ignore list is

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## longqi (May 27, 2014)

I think its a huge mistake not permitting links from facebook or other sites
It automatically removes a huge percentage of possible members

I dont post much now
Anything remotely controversial or critical gets slammed or deleted so whats the point

Example sponsors can say whatever they like without a shred of proof
But dare to ask for proof or categorically prove them wrong and instant deletion


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## CrazyNut (May 27, 2014)

marcus0002 said:


> I don't know what am ignore list is
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Ok I checked and yes this forum has it. If you have a problem with a member, you go to their profile and click add to ignore list on the side, whoever is on that list can not see your post (I think you can't see theirs either)


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## PDM_Pythons (May 27, 2014)

So .... People that enjoy this site.... What we guna do?.... I also agree that the sponsors r protected more so than just Tom dick and Harry on here ... Just saying


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## jacques92 (May 27, 2014)

They have to protect thier sponsers 
if they decide to leafe aps .
then aps would probs start asking membership fees if that happens everyone is gona go over to facebook


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## Kurtis (May 27, 2014)

I think everyone is on facebook. Just an easier setup with instant answers as you can chat directly. So active too, could spend hours everyday in reptile related groups. Way easier for selling, more audience. ect.


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## Norm (Jul 21, 2014)

So I`ve been having an SMS chat with [MENTION=40163]PDM_Pythons[/MENTION] and it prompted me to bring up this thread again. Surely the lack of activity on this site is starting to concern people, especially the Mods and sponsors. Something has to be done to get members actively using this site again.


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## RedFox (Jul 22, 2014)

A few things over the last year or so that have slipped. It sucked not having a calendar. We have/had quite a few talented people posting some stunning photos. The voting process was great as well and must have created interest in the site. The lack of footy tipping this year was a bit of a let down as well. There were some great prizes up for grabs last year. 

Maybe some competitions and links to social media would be good and attract people back to the forum. This forum still has plenty of reach with being near the top of most reptile related google searches but maybe creating an accompanying facebook page to promote the forum would help increase the range. 

APS doesn't have the best reputation so it would take a fair bit to change people's minds and get some of the great members we have lost posting again.


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## MrVic (Jul 26, 2014)

I too ran a large motorcycle forum and no matter you do, Facebook is easier as it integrates with what the user is currently doing, surfing Facebook. 

The sponsors are the lifeblood of a forum. They need to be protected to a degree but not to the detriment of its members. 
I've no idea of the sites history but I have made some observations. 

Ok so I posted that I wired stuff up and was slapped with an official warning. As a newbie to the site a simple PM could have sufficed. 
Strict moderation is needed to keep the site "content safe" for mass consumption. Moderators are the first to be slammed no matter what they decide to do, be it positive or negative. You can't and never will keep everyone happy. 

I use the "New Posts" link to get the latest posts however some 90%of the results are for sale items. There is far too much noise to sift through. This can be achieved by customising that particular search omitting the for sale posts. Otherwise it resembles an online bazaar. 

The disallowing of links is a bad call in my opinion. It limits reach and it akin to stunting ones growth. 
Use google adwords to drive extra revenue so the site can run competitions with prizes. 

The means of attracting members is fairly simple, retaining them is, well, an entire different set of challenges. 

Good luck with it all. 

Vic


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## apprenticegnome (Jul 26, 2014)

I agree with MrVIc's suggestions even the ability to cull out certain results in searches like Ebay does in its advanced options although I am not sure how hard it is to achieve. A few competitions certainly should generate new interest and also regular traffic. A very good definition of a ****zu by the way, should be on Wikipedia.


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## -Peter (Jul 26, 2014)

I went to a zoo, it only had a dog... it was a shih tzu.


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## MrVic (Jul 26, 2014)

I once sold a $20,000 sponsorship deal a few years ago for my previous site  
You need to be able to attract serious sponsorship dollars in order to get the site some dollars to play with.
Not saying that the goal needs to be 20k but the sponsors need to give up more than just banner ads. 

I don't know the mechanics of the site and what it hopes to achieve so will refrain from posting improvement suggestions


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jul 26, 2014)

PDM_Pythons said:


> So .... People that enjoy this site.... What we guna do?.... I also agree that the sponsors r protected more so than just Tom dick and Harry on here ... Just saying



Its stupid how sponsors are protected over the members. Without the members there is no site and nothing to sponsor.


While I do try to advise the noobies from time to time and I do get frustrated by them giving advise that is wrong, dangerous and stupid. What I find worse still is the level of advanced keepers who give their advice and demand that their way is the only way to do things right. Some of us have been around long enough to know there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Also PM'd


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## AussieBen (Jul 27, 2014)

As a new comer to the site this is were i see it from. Some people will no doubt disagree, but this is only my opinion.

1) A persons experience status on here is by the post count, it is almost like if you don't have a large post count, then who are you to give advice.
2) when a person questions someones advice, then the posse comes out with " well they have been doing this for XX amount of years, so you better listen to them."
3) Chit chat threads get more attention than actual herp related threads.
4) If someone does a ask a basic question, it seems the end result is " well you shouldn't have reptiles, Just give it to someone who does"

What some people need to understand is this. They were only beginners at one stage to, they started were everyone starts. In a new hobby that can be overwhelming. And when their advice is questioned, I don't think it's to be a smart a$$, I think it's that you learn more when you understand the reason behind the advice.

I am only new to the hobby, but there was a lady that came one here to ask some questions and for some guidance and she got absolutely slammed, it was disgusting really. I PM'ed her and passed on very little that I knew and what had been working for me, explained the reasons behind the advice, tried to help her track down a rat breeder in her state, suggested some books that might help her and so on. I'm not sure if she has been back, but after her first experience I wouldn't blame her if she hasn't. But just because I am new, have a post count under 100, that doesn't make me fit enough to give advice and I certainly wouldn't have in the main thread, but no else was helping. After the last email she sent me explaining what she was doing, her enclosure and a few pics of her pet, I reckon she'll be doing ok, and her pet Coastal will probably live a great life now. But what she was doing was wrong in my eyes and without that little bit of advice and guidance I am not sure if her pet would have been happy and healthy.

Facebook is another factor. I wasn't using facebook when I joined up here, I would jump on the partners and look around the reptile pages. But now I have joined back up and use it solely for herp related stuff, and that is about it really. But you seem to get a larger, quicker response on there than you do a forum, and people seem less judgmental ( Don't get me wrong, I have still come across some well know herpers that think they are the mighty god of herpers ) but it is less overall. Not only that, it is a bit more specific on Facebook as in you can search groups from your state, or specific species groups, so on so on.

I mean, I still have questions in regards to why has one of my snakes gone off food when I haven't prepared her for breeding, or changed any routine, but I would ask them somewhere else, mainly because of the amount of replies I would get, and the quality of the replies that I would get ( if that makes sense ) I just wing it, and if I feel that concerned I will just take her to the vet. 

Like I said, this just my view on it, and my opinion... Oh and I haven't seen a problem with the mods and the way they do things, I could be wrong, but I have never personally been affected unless they were trying to help.

Cheers,
Ben


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## Leasdraco (Jul 27, 2014)

I agree with what you're saying Ben. If I have a question or anything I'm now far more likely to ask people on Facebook, most of whom I know in real life anyway. I do find a lot of valuable information on this site but I don't get involved in many discussions. My favourite threads are the 'show us your ...'


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## PDM_Pythons (Aug 2, 2014)

Awaiting some form of moderator response to some very good replies


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## MrVic (Aug 2, 2014)

The responses need to come from the Admin crew not the moderators. 
The lack of response speaks volumes.


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## DarwinBrianT (Aug 2, 2014)

The Admin and Mod's can only do so much, they are treated a lot like the police. People jump up and down when they get moderated but then call out for them when things aren't going their way. ( from my experience owning and running a forum for many years ) 
It's up to the people posting to make the site what it should be. It is only a few that ruin it for everyone else, these people need ask them self before they post is my post going to be helpful, am I being tactful if I am posting something negative, could the person take what I have said the wrong way ( maybe rewrite it? ) and don't pick on the small stuff let it go ....
All common sense I would of thought... Just my 2c


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## Stuart (Aug 2, 2014)

PDM_Pythons said:


> Awaiting some form of moderator response to some very good replies



What sort of response are you after PDM? While there are some great suggestions I agree, unfortunately some are not feasible due to site mechanics and certain individuals more interested in being a hindrance than a help. 

I personally have implemented a couple of suggestions from the folks who took the initiative to act on my offer of PMing me. I have no need to highlight these changes or offer any further comment on it but I have noticed that they (those who contacted me) are posting more frequently and that in certain areas we are having more intellectual discussions. The moderators work as a team and while we may not be "seen" on the forums much and what is seen is more often than not an action that a particular group of folks would see as "a bad decision". 

We will never be able to please everyone all of the time and to most people we are just a name on screen but all I can suggest is that if you see or think that something needs to be actioned or changed, call it out so it can be looked at. Just be aware that while it may be a good suggestion to some, it needs to benefit the entire forum and not cause waves or issues.

Regards
Stuart




MrVic said:


> The responses need to come from the Admin crew not the moderators.
> The lack of response speaks volumes.


Thats incorrect, we work as a team. I would suggest you take your own advice on the site mechanics before offering insight based on just your own experience.


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## MrVic (Aug 2, 2014)

SniperCap said:


> Thats incorrect, we work as a team. I would suggest you take your own advice on the site mechanics before offering insight based on just your own experience.



Really? Such a nice and abrasive response from a moderator. So you prefer I post based on other people's experience instead? 

I stand by my comment. If, as you claim, you work as a team then your output needs to be questioned. 
After 5 pages of discussion, I can see a common denominator but your "team" holds its constituents in contempt. 

Hey, it's your party, run it how "you" see fit and you keep on treating your members this way. I'm sure the sponsors appreciate the treatment of their potential customers.

Way to go champ


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## Stuart (Aug 2, 2014)

Actually, I was suggesting you looked at the bigger picture rather than post an open ended comment in a public forum. 

My comment was not meant to be abrasive and I will openly apologise if it was perceived as such however my point was only that a week ago you commented you did not know much about the site mechanics and today you make a bold statement of how a moderator/admin team should run based on only your experience as a former site admin.


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## PythonLegs (Aug 2, 2014)

Judging by some of the reptile keeprs I've met recently, I'd say the biggest impact on the number of site users is adult literacy.


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## Senator358 (Aug 2, 2014)

Judging purely on the posts in the last two days letting arrogant, rude and illiterate little *****s post multiple threads with multiple user names won't help the forum either


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 3, 2014)

Senator358 said:


> Judging purely on the posts in the last two days letting arrogant, rude and illiterate little *****s post multiple threads with multiple user names won't help the forum either


 Have you flagged these alleged abuses of the forum with the moderator's? If not, why not?

Your use of the term "let" clearly indicates that you consider that these alleged abuses occurred with the knowledge and sanctioning of either one or more moderators or administrators. Would you be please explain what information you base that contention on?

Answers to these questions are needed to address the alleged issues, to rectify the situation that allowed this to happen (as stated) and to determine the most effective course of action, particularly if other forum users should encounter a similar situation in future. 

Can we just ignore rule infringement of using of using inappropriate language this time around for the sake of dealing with the much more serious claims made. 

Blue


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## Senator358 (Aug 3, 2014)

All good mate. His multiple accounts have now been stopped and some of his threads deleted. I don't feel I need to flag these issues with moderators as its pretty plain to see.


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## Senator358 (Aug 3, 2014)

Just to add I did not use in appropriate language. Some filters are just set a bit high.


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 3, 2014)

[MENTION=36803]Senator358[/MENTION]

I am still curious about a couple of things you did not address...

You used the plural to indicate there was more than one? A typo or otherwise? 

You clearly indicated that the mods had knowing let it happen. It that still your contention? Could this be the actual reason you did not report it to the mods? 

Blue


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## MrVic (Aug 3, 2014)

SniperCap said:


> Actually, I was suggesting you looked at the bigger picture rather than post an open ended comment in a public forum.
> 
> My comment was not meant to be abrasive and I will openly apologise if it was perceived as such however my point was only that a week ago you commented you did not know much about the site mechanics and today you make a bold statement of how a moderator/admin team should run based on only your experience as a former site admin.



Apology accepted. I was commenting on the lack of response. 
However, that was then, today is a sunny Sunday.


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## Senator358 (Aug 3, 2014)

[MENTION=20726]Bluetongue1[/MENTION]

I used the plural as it is not the first time that multiple threads asking basically the same question, from one user, have been allowed to continue. 
In this instance there were so many threads that it would have been impossible for them to not be noticed by a mod so I didn't feel the need to report it. Since most of the threads were allowed to continue I assumed it must be OK by moderator standards. 
I just come here to read and sometimes offer advice if I feel it is wanted. I'm not here to report people.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Aug 4, 2014)

I left this site for about about two years, and now that I've returned I have noticed the site is much less active than it used to be. It probably is mostly facebook and twitter that have contributed to that, not to mention the decline in the hobby itself.


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## Norm (Aug 12, 2014)

If you think APS has some idiots spend some time on some of the facebook sites!


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## apprenticegnome (Aug 12, 2014)

I find Facebook so limited especially due to the inability to search posts. I looked at a buy swap and sell site once, was completely useless when I wanted to look for a specific item rather than the item joe blogs has just posted. APS has a lot to offer in comparison.


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