# Snappy jungle python



## GaryL (Apr 21, 2021)

Hey guys new to the hobby, I have a young jungle python maybe 30cm ish long and is super defensive and snappy, basically always wants to bite and some times deficates when picking up and will continue to bite, will easy up a bit after holding for few mins but not much, any tips ?


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## cagey (Apr 22, 2021)

Many snakes are snappy. Leave it alone to settle in for starters. With my snakes I open the enclosure door and let them come out and use my hands to support them as they exit the enclosure.... seems to work the majority of the time.


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## Sdaji (Apr 22, 2021)

GaryL said:


> any tips ?



Get something other than a Jungle or treat it like a fish (enjoy looking but don't think of it as a handling animal).

If I had a dollar for every newbie I've encountered who bought a Jungle because Jungles are pretty, then lamented it being bitey... ?


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## Pythonguy1 (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree with Sdaji and cagey. Just leave it alone for now, or get something with a more placid nature. A Jungle is certainly not a great choice for beginners.


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## CF Constrictor (Apr 22, 2021)

Not all jungles are like that ! Just be patient and gentle with it and im sure it will calm down in time. Besides , a bite from a python that size is not going to do anything. Most young snakes reguardles of breed think anything bigger than them is a potential predator and will act acordingly. If kept apropriatly, it should soon realize you are not a threat, and should settle down. But they are all different so time will tell. I personaly wouldn't give up on it yet, they are beautiful critters. Good luck.


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## Sdaji (Apr 23, 2021)

CF Constrictor said:


> Not all jungles are like that ! Just be patient and gentle with it and im sure it will calm down in time. Besides , a bite from a python that size is not going to do anything. Most young snakes reguardles of breed think anything bigger than them is a potential predator and will act acordingly. If kept apropriatly, it should soon realize you are not a threat, and should settle down. But they are all different so time will tell. I personaly wouldn't give up on it yet, they are beautiful critters. Good luck.


Not all Jungles are like that, but we all know that Jungles are very prone to it, many don't grow out of it, and we've all heard countless stories of newbies lamenting their purchase of a Jungle because of the frustration they experienced trying to be patient while getting bitten for a year or two then giving up.

I am not saying they're bad to keep or that this person or anyone else should not keep Jungles. I keep my snakes like fish (they're for looking at and I rarely handle them) even though pretty much all of them handle very well if you do want to pick them up (and incidentally, since very few of them have ever been routinely handled but they all handle well, it's a good demonstration that handling isn't necessary to make snakes calm handlers). What I'm saying is that if you have a snake which is bitey, accept that it's bitey, and if it's a Jungle, accept that while it might calm down, it is likely that it never will, so be at peace with this reality, and if your heart is absolutely set on having a calm handling snake, a Jungle isn't the best choice. In fact, it's probably the literal worst among the common options (Carpets and Antaresia) if you don't want a snappy snake.


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## Wolfgang5 (Apr 23, 2021)

Sdaji said:


> Not all Jungles are like that, but we all know that Jungles are very prone to it, many don't grow out of it, and we've all heard countless stories of newbies lamenting their purchase of a Jungle because of the frustration they experienced trying to be patient while getting bitten for a year or two then giving up.
> 
> I am not saying they're bad to keep or that this person or anyone else should not keep Jungles. I keep my snakes like fish (they're for looking at and I rarely handle them) even though pretty much all of them handle very well if you do want to pick them up (and incidentally, since very few of them have ever been routinely handled but they all handle well, it's a good demonstration that handling isn't necessary to make snakes calm handlers). What I'm saying is that if you have a snake which is bitey, accept that it's bitey, and if it's a Jungle, accept that while it might calm down, it is likely that it never will, so be at peace with this reality, and if your heart is absolutely set on having a calm handling snake, a Jungle isn't the best choice. In fact, it's probably the literal worst among the common options (Carpets and Antaresia) if you don't want a snappy snake.


So just for clarification, 

If you ask different people, they will say that this or that breed of dog is inherently more "aggressive or dangerous" than others, where as the reality is some breeds of dog are inherently more dominant or strong minded than others and therefore require a more knowledgeable approach to raising them in order to control those dominant behaviours and raise a well mannered and well behaved animal, 

Ignoring the fact that snakes and dogs are completely different animals but drawing the same conclusion that all dogs are of the same canine family and all Morelia are too, could it be said that those behaviours could come down to the owners in some respects or do we believe that jungles are the exception? 

Do we know what causes Jungles behaviour to be so assumingly different from other morelias?


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## Ramsayi (Apr 23, 2021)

Jungles hatchies/juvies, in general are way more highly strung than other carpets. Why I don't know but it is a fact that they are, having bred hundreds of them over the years. All small carpets operate on a flight or fight response as they perceive everything as a threat, jungles lean way more toward a fight response. 

The majority will calm down with no help from their keeper as the vast majority will become more laid back once they achieve a bit of size. My advice for dealing with the little chainsaws is to feed them and grow them quickly. Only handling for cage cleaning etc as all that is achieved by handling is exacerbating their stress which in turn could turn them into a handful as adults.


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## Sdaji (Apr 23, 2021)

Wolfgang5 said:


> So just for clarification,
> 
> If you ask different people, they will say that this or that breed of dog is inherently more "aggressive or dangerous" than others, where as the reality is some breeds of dog are inherently more dominant or strong minded than others and therefore require a more knowledgeable approach to raising them in order to control those dominant behaviours and raise a well mannered and well behaved animal,



Anyone who knows dogs well will know that some breeds of dogs are more prone to aggressive/dangerous behaviour than others. Dogs have been specifically and successfully bred to have different character traits, and this includes aggression. Okay...



Wolfgang5 said:


> Ignoring the fact that snakes and dogs are completely different animals but drawing the same conclusion that all dogs are of the same canine family and all Morelia are too, could it be said that those behaviours could come down to the owners in some respects or do we believe that jungles are the exception?



Huh? If anything, this just reiterates the fact that some groups of animals are more aggressive or intelligent or keen to eat or active etc etc than others. Yes, animal behaviour also includes environmental influences, but you're going to have a lot more difficulty taming down a wolf than a golden retriever. You're going to have more trouble finding a calm Jungle than a calm Murray Darling. You're going to have more trouble finding a calm Eastern Brown Snake than a calm Red-bellied Black. You're going to have more trouble finding a gentle Chimpanzee than a Bonobo.



Wolfgang5 said:


> Do we know what causes Jungles behaviour to be so assumingly different from other morelias?



Genetics. For whatever reason, presumably that type of attitude is more beneficial in their habitat than in other Carpet Python habitats. The niche they live in favours it, just like it also favours their different colours, being more arboreal, having higher thermal requirements than Diamonds and Murray Darlings, etc etc. They come from different places, occupy different niches, and are different. Why are Eastern Browns more high strung than Copperheads and Red-bellieds? Why are Jungles smaller than Coastals? You can speculate about the why as much as you like, but there is still an objective reality that this is the way it is.


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## Wolfgang5 (Apr 24, 2021)

"Anyone who knows dogs well will know that some breeds of dogs are more prone to aggressive/dangerous behaviour than others. Dogs have been specifically and successfully bred to have different character traits, and this includes aggression. Okay..."

All I will say to that is that I am a formally trained canine behaviourist with a background in protection and guard dog training, both military and civilian security dogs so let's leave this topic here as we clearly have different areas of expertise.

My original point was that the way a domestic animal is raised plays a major role in their behavioural outcome as an adult, I was asking if we are saying Jungle pythons tend to be more snappy than other pythons in their younger life and if so does the way we treat them, ie interaction, feeding, and or handling, play a role in the overall outcome of the adult python, or irrespective of the way we act, are jungles just the exception with the majority being more naturally prone to "issues"?

My young coastal was snappy and defensive when I first adopted him, through following your advice and leaving him be, he has now settled and become a much more relaxed and calm animal.
If I had continued to try and calm him through handling and "well intended harassment", I may not have achieved the same result.

Are we saying that a jungle will not "outgrow" this snappy or defensive type behaviours regardless of how we interact with them or like my coastal, can our interaction or lack of, assist in the adult behaviour of the reptile?

Where I was/am getting lost is understanding the differences between morelias, besides colour, 
I think being a newer keeper its easy to misunderstand that they are actually completely different animals not just different colours of the same.

But, ey, we're learning and that's a positive.


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## CF Constrictor (Apr 24, 2021)

Logic tells me that the way they are baught up must have some influence on their behaviour. But i believe they are all individuals, and while most morelia will calm down with age and gentle handling , some just don't. It seems jungles are less likley to calm down than other morelia. I have also heard that morelia from northern australia tend to be more nervous, agressive than their southern cousins. I have 2 coastals , one is part jungle , and a bredli that have all been handled gently but not harrased all their lives , and they are all very calm and never seem to act agressivly ?


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## Benno87 (Apr 24, 2021)

It’s the exact reason I love jungles. Love they’re attitude lol. Still get tagged occasionally but I rarely handle my 6


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## Sdaji (Apr 26, 2021)

Wolfgang5 said:


> All I will say to that is that I am a formally trained canine behaviourist with a background in protection and guard dog training, both military and civilian security dogs so let's leave this topic here as we clearly have different areas of expertise.



Are you suggesting that there is no genetic difference in behaviour between different dog breeds? The single most important aspect of domestication is to genetically alter animal behaviour, especially in animals such as dogs. This has been researched extensively in modern times and understood for literally thousands of years. If you want to have this conversation at all, you need to understand that genetics play a massive, fundamental role in determining behaviour, and there are massive differences within species, and there are plenty of natural and artificial examples of this.



Wolfgang5 said:


> My original point was that the way a domestic animal is raised plays a major role in their behavioural outcome as an adult, I was asking if we are saying Jungle pythons tend to be more snappy than other pythons in their younger life and if so does the way we treat them, ie interaction, feeding, and or handling, play a role in the overall outcome of the adult python, or irrespective of the way we act, are jungles just the exception with the majority being more naturally prone to "issues"?



Jungles are more predisposed, on average, to being snappy, than are most if not all other types of Carpets. Of course there is also environmental influence.



Wolfgang5 said:


> My young coastal was snappy and defensive when I first adopted him, through following your advice and leaving him be, he has now settled and become a much more relaxed and calm animal.
> If I had continued to try and calm him through handling and "well intended harassment", I may not have achieved the same result.



That sounds like what I'd expect, you did the right thing, and it goes against the most common advice you'll get from most people.



Wolfgang5 said:


> Are we saying that a jungle will not "outgrow" this snappy or defensive type behaviours regardless of how we interact with them or like my coastal, can our interaction or lack of, assist in the adult behaviour of the reptile?



Not every individual is the same. Some Jungles will never grow out of it, some will always be calm almost regardless of what we do. Typically they're snappy and difficult to change. The typical methods people recommend usually make things worse.



Wolfgang5 said:


> Where I was/am getting lost is understanding the differences between morelias, besides colour,
> I think being a newer keeper its easy to misunderstand that they are actually completely different animals not just different colours of the same.



People referring to Morelias in this way is inappropriate. There are multiple species in Morelia, though people sometimes incorrectly use Morelia as a synonym for Carpet Pythons, and even that is not clear or universally agreed upon. It's not a case of them being either identical or radically difference. The amount of difference exists on a broad spectrum. Some types are quite similar to each other, some are quite different. There are significant behavioural differences, thermal preferences and tolerances, dietary preferences, size differences, etc. The behavioural differences are far more than how defensive they are with humans. Just as one example, some of them are genetically programmed to go up trees, especially over winter (bredli perhaps being the best example), others will try to find ground or below ground shelter for overwintering. Some of them come from tropical environments where it is never particularly hot and never cold, others come from areas where they'll see snow and have to avoid ground temperatures of around 70-80 degrees celcius (which obviously explains why they would have different behavioural patterns, because what works in one area will be completely lethal in another). Some populations need to deal with certain predators which others don't, and if you're genetically programmed to interact with potential prey and predators in the wrong way, getting the behavioural response correct can make the difference between getting a feed or not getting a feed, or being eaten or not being eaten.

Morelia is a genus. Like, say, Varanus. Saying 'they are all Morelia' is a little like saying 'They are all Varanus' - consider that Varanus vary in size by orders of magnitude and include species which eat insects or large hooved mammals, living in the desert or tropics or wetlands. Carpet Pythons live in Mediterranian climates, deserts, tropical rainforests, woodland, swamps... just about everywhere. They have a massive and extremely diverse distribution.



Wolfgang5 said:


> But, ey, we're learning and that's a positive.


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## Pythonguy1 (Apr 26, 2021)

CF Constrictor said:


> Not all jungles are like that ! Just be patient and gentle with it and im sure it will calm down in time.


I have a friend who did just that with their jungle. Now It's gone from a snake that would bite me repeatedly, to a snake that hardly bites at all. And It's still a juvenile.


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## CF Constrictor (Apr 26, 2021)

As they say "anything is possible" ☺


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## Dustproof (May 25, 2021)

My Jungle bites but calms down after 5 or 10 mins of handeling, he is quite big and would do damage if I didn't wear Riggers Gloves and a jacket. I show him my hand with glove on holding my hand flat and upright position and he understands that I am going to handle him. The last few times I get him out, he doesn't try to bite. Some might say that you can't teach them, well I told my wife what to do and he doesn't bite her either. Unfortunately I haven't held him for a few months because I had a serious accident and have been in hospital and because he is so big and heavy, I don't have the strength to hold him until I am more mobile so it will be interesting to see if he remembers.


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