# How to love an unloved python



## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Hi,
I've taken on a 6 ft, 5 year old coastal carpet python who has not been handled since he was tiny and is very, very aggressive.
As much as I've always loved reptiles and handled friends snakes and lizards, this gorgeous monster is the first I've been able to have as my own.
Maybe I bit off a bit more than I could chew, but his previous owners just wanted to 'get rid of him'.
I've had him about a year now. For a while I thought I'd just make his tank interesting and feed him up well and let him get used to me, and maybe he'd love me as much as I love him.
He was fed twice a year apparently and his tank was just two shelves and a water bowl.
But alas, no. It's unrequited love.
I'm not worried about getting bitten. He's bitten me quite a few time and although it bleeds like a bitch, it doesn't hurt.
I just don't want to make him so scared he feels he needs to bite me.
I need some tactics on dealing with an emotionally stunted old boy.
I've tried so hard with him I'm feeling like I just want to stick my arm in his cage and let him go at it. Let him get it out of his system?
Thats probably a crap idea. I'm not sure what to do.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

Accept the fact that snakes are cold-blooded, cold-hearted emotionless creatures completely incapable of feeling what you feel for it. Anthropomorphism is common in the hobby.


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Obviously  but by now, between me and the boyfs, we have quite the menagerie. I want him to be a part of it and I feel he would have a happier life if he were comfortable enough to even be touched.
It's not for my sake. Well maybe a little.. But more for his. I mean, how stressed would he have to be to lash out every time a person came near him?
I want to get him used to people so he lives a more relaxed and interesting life.


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## Herpetology (May 2, 2020)

maybe hes having a early mid life crisis?


but for real, what are you feeding him (its possible hes hungry)? what are your temperatures? some snakes are just Arseholes and you just have to accept it with a hook to get him out,

give him a nice fat rat 3-400g

"aggressive"? or defensive? when he bites does he hold on and wrap up? or bite and retreat immediately

i'm afraid you're giving this animal a lot more "personality" than there is to it, hes a snake, he doesnt care if you want to make him comfortable or cuddle his little danger noodle self, all he wants is: heat, food, comfy place to hide away

provide all these things, and bring him out for short handling every couple days, 30seconds-1minute to start for a little bit then start extending


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

Every snake, like every creature and person has their own personality / disposition... it is what it is.


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Okay. I waffled on a bit in my post. The main point is, I got him as a 5 year old, fully grown python that just hadn't been loved at all (handled at all. He was just in a hallway, ignored his whole life.)
My assumption is, and please tell me if I'm mistaken, that since he pretty much lived his whole 5 years in a plywood box with just a water bowl at the bottom and no human interaction besides people walking by, that he could somehow be a rescue where he's able to learn to live with people and interact, and learn to be a part of a family. 
He really is a beautiful snake. He's just scared. It's complete defensiveness that makes him aggressive.
My question is, how do I make him comfortable with me?
I know how to keep a snake happy and fed and warm etc but this was the first snake I took on. I dont know how to deal with traumatized snakes.
[doublepost=1588420285,1588420095][/doublepost]Oh, the feeding question. I spend more on what he doesn't eat. I offer rats, quails, hamsters and baby chicks. He only likes rats.
[doublepost=1588420516][/doublepost]All I want to know is, how to tame a big nasty snake.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

KrystalBallz said:


> All I want to know is, how to tame a big nasty snake.


.410


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Flaviemys purvisi said:


> .410


You're so helpful. Thank you


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

I just don't think you're getting it. But anyway.


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

What makes you reply to someone asking for help when you don't want to help?
[doublepost=1588423700,1588423659][/doublepost]How about you contribute something useful or just... Don't???


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

KrystalBallz said:


> What makes you reply to someone asking for help when you don't want to help?
> [doublepost=1588423700,1588423659][/doublepost]How about you contribute something useful or just... Don't???


I did, I explained to you that your wanting to change your snake's personality to suit you is anthropomorphism. That's useful. You didn't want to listen. You have a notion that because of the way the previous owner kept the snake, that must have created its behaviour.. you haven't even considered that the previous owner wanted to just "get rid of it" because it was like that all along. Snakes are reptiles, reptiles have no desire to please you, they have pre-programmed instincts for survival that have existed for millennia. Snakes like all reptiles have vastly varying levels of tolerance. Your coastal obviously has minimal tolerance for what it deems unnecessary human interaction. So if you want to give it a happy life... leave it alone. Accept your snake for what it is... or just... don't and keep forcing your hands onto it and pissing it off.


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Yep. I'm no Freud but im pretty sure that environment shapes personality. Yes Freud was about humans blah blah, before you get onto that. Blah.
But pretty sure, if I hurt a snake every day for its whole life, it wouldn't be a great pet.
Which is almost like my adopted snake is. He was negleted and ignored and now he's unmanageable for me. Pretty sure if he got loose I'd have to worry about my 1 year old daughter surviving the night.
I don't want that. Okay?
I want to tame him. Okay?
I know he a handful but I'm asking, can I do anything to help him. Okay???
Can you help??


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## Sdaji (May 2, 2020)

I think our friend Flavi is just somewhat frustrated because you two are on extremely different wavelengths. You seem to think he will be happy by being accepted by a family which loves him and he will appreciate this, and Flavi is aware that snakes just don't think like that. They are naturally solitary, they don't seek any sort of affection, they don't have anything like love for anyone else and don't want or need love from anyone else. From day 1 they are on their own other than for mating or when females care for eggs. They find shelter alone, they prefer to shelter alone (will share if there is insufficient space for everyone to be alone, but given the choice would opt for solitude), they hunt alone, they eat alone, if they have any problems they don't seek or want help from anyone else like wolves, rats, dolphins or other social animals do. They can become familiar enough with humans to know they are no thread and be relaxed about being handled, but they just see humans as part of the environment, a bit like a tree to climb on. The may even have a favourite tree or burrow which they quite like, but don't form emotional connections to them in the same way social animals form connections with each other.

Snakes which are never handled generally handle very well. Most of the thousands of snakes I've worked with haven't been handled other than for cleaning and inspection, and the vast majority handle very calmly. They've had a lifetime of never being attacked by anything, so they don't fear anything. They see humans (even if just me) and I'm a familiar sight in their comfortable life, always present and never dangerous, and even if it's only when cleaning, they get picked up for a moment and it's never harmful, so it doesn't worry them.

I don't know if yours is just an inherently cranky animal or if someone previously hurt it deliberately or accidentally, or if it is just hungry and bites you because it wants to eat you and thinks maybe it can.

I do agree with you that he may be a bit happier if he understands that you are not dangerous. If he is biting you because he is scared, just leaving him alone other than for feeding and cleaning will make him most happy, and in time he should calm down. A common mistake is to force an angry/scared snake to be handled. In his mind, you are trying to kill and eat him. He attacks you in defense, and eventually escapes (you put him back in his cage) and he figures that he did a good job with self defense and saved his life and must do it again next time. Once an adult snake is bitey it can be a difficult behaviour to change. If he is biting because he wants to kill and eat you, it just means you need to feed him more and/or establish a routine that lets him see and understand the difference between human animals and feed animals. To be honest I actually enjoy having a few snakes which routinely attempt to kill me, I find it very cute and funny and am often in hysteric during feeding time or when they try to attack me during cleaning/watering (yeah, I'm probably warped in the head, but I love enthusiastic snakes). If they're fearful and biting to scare people, I don't like it, I feel a bit sad for the snake and I don't find them pleasant to work with.

Your snake will be absolutely, perfectly happy living alone with no interaction with humans. The only interaction they have an instinct to want (other than killing and eating animals) is mating. Males will also combat if they come into contact with each other, but I don't think this is something they particularly want or benefit from.

I agree with Flavi in that you're worried about things which aren't problems and seeking things which aren't of any benefit to the snake. I can see your valid point about the snake being somewhat stressed if it is fearful enough of people to try to bite them and it has to see people walking around (or worse still, they pick him up). I'm not sure if that's why he is biting. If you describe the way he attacks you I can tell you whether he is being aggressive or defensive, which changes the best way to deal with the situation.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

Get rid of the snake. You're not going to "tame it" get a Guinea pig instead or perhaps... a pet rock.


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## Southernserpent (May 2, 2020)

All you can do is provide what the snake needs which like has been said is an appropriate temperature gradiant, food, water and somewhere safe to hide.
It is easy to handle a larger carpet python without getting bitten just continue to do that and with time he will become tolerant enough that he will calm down


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## KrystalBallz (May 2, 2020)

Sdaji, you know what you're talking about. My snake bites out of fear. He just bites quickly and let's go. I'm trying to find a way to make him comfortable with me. Any way it takes. He's old and stuck in his ways so I don't know how to do that.
[doublepost=1588425878,1588425726][/doublepost]Flaviemys, where do you suggest I 'get rid of him'?
That's the same crappy attitude that made me adopt him in the first place.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 2, 2020)

"Made you adopt it" lol OK. Your attitude isn't what's in the best interest for the snake... you just want what's best for you. Any other snake keeper that doesn't want to be "loved by their snake" would be a better option for it.
Have you tried setting the mood... you know... dimming the lights, a few scented candles... some soft music...
Why be sceptical? Nothing else you're doing is working... the snake won't give a damn either way but you will and that's all that matters hey so give it a whirl.
Enjoy.


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## Sdaji (May 3, 2020)

KrystalBallz said:


> Sdaji, you know what you're talking about. My snake bites out of fear. He just bites quickly and let's go. I'm trying to find a way to make him comfortable with me. Any way it takes. He's old and stuck in his ways so I don't know how to do that.



For an old, adult snake with that established attitude it's likely to be difficult. This is a great example of a snake which doesn't suit the standard advice everyone will give you (keep persisting with handling until he gets used to it). The standard advice is most of counterproductive in these cases, as I described above, and in the mean time the snake is being traumatised and you're being frustrated and bitten. It will occasionally work, but you've already tried and found it not to (which is what you'd expect 9 times out of 10 in a case like this), so it's best to go with what's more likely to work.

Stop handling. Reduce interaction to the minimum you can. If there's anything which upsets him (going near the cage making him react fearfully, picking him up to clean the enclosure, whatever it might be), don't do it, or do it as little as possible. Now the big monster (you) has stopped trying to kill him (gently interact with him). Hopefully over time he'll get used to you and lose fear, now that you're just a part of the scenery and not something which tries to kill him. Then you can very slowly start to increase interaction. To do this properly takes a lot of effort and understanding, and to gain the experience which would make it easy, you'd need to work with a lot of snakes for a reasonable amount of time, and by then you wouldn't be interested in taming a snake like this anyway. In reality, a snake like this is best off with someone who will treat it like most people treat fish - look but don't physically interact. If you're happy to do that, great, and that's also the most likely way to get him to change. You might find that in a different person's care, the new person's attitude and different style may quickly or even immediately calm him down, and if you're going to get him to change, you'll have to change yourself. If you do have your heart set on an interactive snake, you're probably better off finding this one a new home. Probably a difficult snake to rehome though; people like me who can do it won't generally want to, and people who would want to generally can't do it. Whether you keep this snake for a short time or long time, cut out the interaction for the foreseeable future, and never opt for any interaction which is at all stressful to the snake.


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## KrystalBallz (May 3, 2020)

Okey dokes. Either one of you can take him if you're keen? Give it a go
[doublepost=1588436400,1588434745][/doublepost]Sdaji, this boy is apart of my life now. I took him on because I knew he was taken on as a cute little novelty and the novelty wore off. He was too big to be cute anymore.
He is old and boring now.
But I'm not a about to give My boy to anyone else. No Way in Hell. I wouldn't sell him for anything.
.i just want to know ways to tame him, to make him feel comfortable with me


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## Flaviemys purvisi (May 3, 2020)




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## Richard Biffin (May 3, 2020)

If it's at all useful, I employ the same strategy mentioned above when raising Lace and Heath Monitors (i realise they are not pythons but I think the same applies). Some take longer (females up to 5 years in one case), to other individuals, I'm basically a piece of furniture within a few months of hatching, BUT, they all get there in the end with a hands off approach as John has made reference to. Time's on your side, I think. Even if it doesn't completely "play the game" it will likely improve.


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## -Adam- (May 3, 2020)

KrystalBallz said:


> Okey dokes. Either one of you can take him if you're keen? Give it a go
> [doublepost=1588436400,1588434745][/doublepost]Sdaji, this boy is apart of my life now. I took him on because I knew he was taken on as a cute little novelty and the novelty wore off. He was too big to be cute anymore.
> He is old and boring now.
> But I'm not a about to give My boy to anyone else. No Way in Hell. I wouldn't sell him for anything.
> .i just want to know ways to tame him, to make him feel comfortable with me



Hi KrystalBallz,

I don't have much experience with snakes so take this post with a grain of salt. But if I may (and I humbly post this as respectfully as I can - please correct me if I'm wrong) - as I understand it your current position is:

a) You've acquired a snake that has little handling in the past
b) You've acquired a snake that is highly defensive
c) Your attachment to this snake is one where you won't pass it on for any reason
d) You don't want to accept the snake's current state (highly defensive) and want to change it's behaviour.

I have no problems with what you're seeking - I just have one question to ask you and that is "what if it ends up that the snake is one where it's nature is not going to change and it will never become familiar and comfortable with you?" Are you willing to accept that, and if so - what evidence or point do you need to get to a point to realise that? Or is that too not an acceptable outcome - and will you choose to continue to try for the rest of he snake's life - even if it means that it ends up making the snakes existance more stressed?

I don't think you're at that point at present. I think @Sdaji has given some real sound advice for you to try, and if it were me - I'd be just like you - wanting to learn what options are available as well to try - to see if it is possible. However in saying that - you have placed some tight conditions on possible outcomes - so I would encourage you to ask yourself and answer the question as to whether you are willing to accept the snake for where it is now if change is not possible.

If it was me - I would try to work on the snake following @Sdaji's advice - and be very patient - but if I continued to fail I would consider making it a breeder (or moving it onto someone who would), so it has a life that doesn't require much handling and accept that it will be defensive, and acquire something else for more handling. But that is me - I don't see snakes like I do a dog where there is a two way bond that occurs and remains for life. Snakes are very different animals with very different needs.


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## Sdaji (May 3, 2020)

-Adam- said:


> If it was me - I would try to work on the snake following @Sdaji's advice - and be very patient - but if I continued to fail I would consider making it a breeder (or moving it onto someone who would), so it has a life that doesn't require much handling and accept that it will be defensive, and acquire something else for more handling. But that is me - I don't see snakes like I do a dog where there is a two way bond that occurs and remains for life. Snakes are very different animals with very different needs.



I would never use this snake as a breeder. Temperament has a large genetic component, and since there is no shortage of Coastal Carpet Pythons in the hobby, it makes little sense to be reproducing this one. You'd have great difficulty finding anyone who was going to do a quarter decent job of breeding and had any interest in using this one anyway. Unless it was being done as a favour you'd struggle to find any experienced breeder willing to take him for free.

If someone wants to make this their behavioural project animal that's their choice. It will hopefully be a big learning experience in this case (and if not the snake and owner will both suffer!). 

Krystal, just understand that right now, this snake does not want interaction with humans. It is terrified of them. It can not comprehend the concept of 'lets just gradually get you used to what you're scared of by increasing your dose of it', and even in humans which can understand that concept, it is counterproductive if the exposure is enough to illicit an instinctive fear response, and the snake is going to make no attempt at deliberately controlling that fear, because it doesn't think there is any reason to. As someone else said, this is likely to take years to resolve (if it's possible at all), so be prepared for this to possibly be a lifelong 'look but don't touch' pet, which is what would be ideal for the snake in any scenario.


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## Susannah (May 3, 2020)

Sdaji said:


> For an old, adult snake with that established attitude it's likely to be difficult. This is a great example of a snake which doesn't suit the standard advice everyone will give you (keep persisting with handling until he gets used to it). The standard advice is most of counterproductive in these cases, as I described above, and in the mean time the snake is being traumatised and you're being frustrated and bitten. It will occasionally work, but you've already tried and found it not to (which is what you'd expect 9 times out of 10 in a case like this), so it's best to go with what's more likely to work.
> 
> Stop handling. Reduce interaction to the minimum you can. If there's anything which upsets him (going near the cage making him react fearfully, picking him up to clean the enclosure, whatever it might be), don't do it, or do it as little as possible. Now the big monster (you) has stopped trying to kill him (gently interact with him). Hopefully over time he'll get used to you and lose fear, now that you're just a part of the scenery and not something which tries to kill him. Then you can very slowly start to increase interaction. To do this properly takes a lot of effort and understanding, and to gain the experience which would make it easy, you'd need to work with a lot of snakes for a reasonable amount of time, and by then you wouldn't be interested in taming a snake like this anyway. In reality, a snake like this is best off with someone who will treat it like most people treat fish - look but don't physically interact. If you're happy to do that, great, and that's also the most likely way to get him to change. You might find that in a different person's care, the new person's attitude and different style may quickly or even immediately calm him down, and if you're going to get him to change, you'll have to change yourself. If you do have your heart set on an interactive snake, you're probably better off finding this one a new home. Probably a difficult snake to rehome though; people like me who can do it won't generally want to, and people who would want to generally can't do it. Whether you keep this snake for a short time or long time, cut out the interaction for the foreseeable future, and never opt for any interaction which is at all stressful to the snake.



This is good advice. 

Plus, don't feel guilty about not playing with your snake if he's not receptive to it. *They* don't need it. They're not cats or dogs or dolphins. They need water, food, heat and somewhere to hide. And occasionally they *want* a mate. That's it. That's all. Like humans, snakes will have personality. Some bite more than others. Some are more introverted than others. This guy might like to be alone? If he's not hungry or cold, he's probably happy. It really is up to what *you* want in a pet. If you have the energy to attempt to tame him, it'll be a long and slow process and possibly still not 100% effective. 

Good luck!


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## reptileandsodaz (May 14, 2020)

IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SNAKE AND YOU GUYS ARE ON DIFFERENT LENGTHS OF STRING THE SNAKE IS BETTER OF IN A DIFFERENT HOME [also did u know when an animal is unloved it doesnt live its best possible life] get the guts and make the right choice which i know you will do.........well it seems you disagree now i shall say that taming a snake that is not young and doesnt like its owner it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get any improvement but i would say that their are a few things that may help your relationship with your snake------ DO NOT THINK ABOUT GETTING BITEN THE SNAKE CAN SENSE YOUR NERVES------- HANG AROUND THE SNAKE LIKE READ A BOOK RIGHT NEAR YOUR SNAKE TO GET IT USED TO YOUR PRESENTS.....these are the main things but ((taming also mean handling and making your snake and your relationship better)) here are a few things you can do ----gently stroke your snake---- AND BEFORE HANDLING LET IT KNOW YOU ARE THEIR---- if you want to tame your snake here is basicly all you could know CHECK OUT THESE VIDEOS ---WATCH THIS IF YOUR SNAKE IS STRESSED = WATCH THIS FOR GENERAL TAMING=  have a good day


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## -Adam- (May 14, 2020)

I thought about posting that video of Snake Discovery as well - but I think @Sdaji hit the nail on the head when he said (and I quote)



Sdaji said:


> This is a great example of a snake which doesn't suit the standard advice everyone will give you (keep persisting with handling until he gets used to it). The standard *advice is most of counterproductive in these cases*



As a result - I think that the video would be more misleading to the original posters situation than otherwise.


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## Herpetology (May 14, 2020)

reptileandsodaz said:


> IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SNAKE AND YOU GUYS ARE ON DIFFERENT LENGTHS OF STRING THE SNAKE IS BETTER OF IN A DIFFERENT HOME [also did u know when an animal is unloved it doesnt live its best possible life] get the guts and make the right choice which i know you will do.........well it seems you disagree now i shall say that taming a snake that is not young and doesnt like its owner it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get any improvement but i would say that their are a few things that may help your relationship with your snake------ DO NOT THINK ABOUT GETTING BITEN THE SNAKE CAN SENSE YOUR NERVES------- HANG AROUND THE SNAKE LIKE READ A BOOK RIGHT NEAR YOUR SNAKE TO GET IT USED TO YOUR PRESENTS.....these are the main things but ((taming also mean handling and making your snake and your relationship better)) here are a few things you can do ----gently stroke your snake---- AND BEFORE HANDLING LET IT KNOW YOU ARE THEIR---- if you want to tame your snake here is basicly all you could know CHECK OUT THESE VIDEOS ---WATCH THIS IF YOUR SNAKE IS STRESSED = WATCH THIS FOR GENERAL TAMING=  have a good day



make sure to touch a 7ft python on the bonker to let it know you're there itll tell you, maybe not in the way you expect though


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