# Daddy long legs vs snake



## alichamp (Feb 12, 2016)

Hi all,

I know very little about snakes but am trying  (why I joined this forum) and this is my first post.

Found this news story:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-11/daddy-long-legs-spider-wins-battle-brown-snake/7154766

I assume the snake was already dead...? And is that really a brown snake? It appears to have a black head but no obvious patterning.

Really keen to learn from what you guys think is going on here.


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## Herpo (Feb 12, 2016)

The snake might have gotten caught in the web and over heated. I think it would've moved to much for the daddy long legs to bite. Their fangs bite inwards, not down, so it needs prey to stay still.


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 12, 2016)

I'm very sceptical about this scenario....

I think it's rigged for the photo and to go on the internet to get someone 5 minutes of fame.... I suspect the snake was killed , then it's tail conveniently placed in the spider's web and the photo taken and story spun.

My BSometer is reading high on this one.


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## GBWhite (Feb 12, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> I'm very sceptical about this scenario....
> 
> I think it's rigged for the photo and to go on the internet to get someone 5 minutes of fame.... I suspect the snake was killed , then it's tail conveniently placed in the spider's web and the photo taken and story spun.
> 
> My BSometer is reading high on this one.



Spiders have been recorded eating snakes.

Here's just a few examples that I copied from web pages. The info and id's may not be correct but the photos are genuine. It appears from the photos that the method adopted by the spider in the above photo appears consistent with that of the accompanying photos so hence I don't see any reason to question the above article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j65i5PDUeT4

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/a...es-from-likely-poisoning-20150303-13tgdf.html

http://planetsave.com/2013/07/29/spider-eats-snake-snake-eating-spider-in-australia/

Cheers,

George.


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 15, 2016)

Have to agree with kingofnobbys thjat this is clearly a set up photo. There is no way a Daddy Longlegs could lift a juvenile brown, even given that it probably one third the length estimate provided, that far off the ground. Clearly the snake, web and spider have been taken out into sunlight on unmarked sand to photograph. The web appears to have been twisted, causing the tail to be twisted, in order to transport snake and web to another location. The Daddy Longlegs has been added, possibly because it was passing at the time or maybe even checking out the ‘unattended’ prey of another spider. 

Daddy Longlegs spiders set up shop in shaded, protected areas, such as under or behind/besides furniture and in the corners of ceilings and other confined spaces. Their webs are particularly wispy, being a few irregularly placed long strands without a lot of interconnections. Given the shortness of their fangs and low toxicity of their venom, I cannot see them or their webs being a danger to a healthy young brown. 

The thicker and more densely constructed web of a Redback, or maybe several Redbacks, as they do often occur in close proximity to each other, combined with their venom, would be a different kettle of fish. The snake may have come to grief in such a web, gotten it hindquarters entangled and unable to be freed, followed by ??? bites.


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## Herpo (Feb 16, 2016)

GBWhite said:


> Spiders have been recorded eating snakes.
> 
> Here's just a few examples that I copied from web pages. The info and id's may not be correct but the photos are genuine. It appears from the photos that the method adopted by the spider in the above photo appears consistent with that of the accompanying photos so hence I don't see any reason to question the above article.
> 
> ...


But none of those species are daddy long legs. You can't just assume the same tactic would work with another species. Not attacking you by the way, just correcting.


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## GBWhite (Feb 16, 2016)

Herpo said:


> But none of those species are daddy long legs. You can't just assume the same tactic would work with another species. Not attacking you by the way, just correcting.



We're all entitled to our opinion and mine is that I see no reason for this not to be true.

It should be remembered that pholcids are predatory and venomous.

The Daddy Long Leg Spider (Pholcus phalangioides) venom may not be considered harmful to humans and of low toxicity but it is poorly studied and the effect of the venom on other species is unknown. However they are very fast and it may be possible that once an animal such as a small snake becomes entangled in a web that a number of bites in quick succession might have a more serious effect.

The tangling of the web may very well be a result of the spider and web being relocated to obtain a photo. From what I've read about them it appears that when they are disturbed they spin in a very fast motion causing their web to become twisted which might also account for twisted appearance of the web around the snake's tail.

Apparently information gleaned from articles I’ve read about spiders indicates that spider webs do not have to be densely constructed to be strong. In fact spider silk is considered to be one of if not the strongest natural fabric.

Extract from the above article

"The Australian Museum's arachnology collections manager Graham Milledge said while it was not clear exactly how the snake had died, it was quite possible the spider was responsible.
"The most likely scenario is that the snake got entangled in the spider's web. Usually what happens then is the spider will try to wrap the snake and then they'll bite it," Mr Milledge said."

Extracts from Live Science article about the same photo. 


“This daddy longlegs was likely a type of cellar spider in the Pholcidae family; the mild venom of such spiders could've been potent enough to kill the snake, one expert said. (The term "daddy longlegs"is also used to refer to harvestmen, which are not spiders, don't have venom and don't spin webs.)
"I have never seen a pholcid spider catch a snake or other vertebrate in its web, but I have seen lizards caught in the webs of other spiders," such as widow spiders, said Lorenzo Prendini, curator of Arachnida and Myriapoda at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City.”
“Though mild, "their venom may be powerful enough to subdue a small vertebrate like this snake," Prendini told Live Science in an email.”


"I guess it is possible that the spider was able to injure the snake with a bite, but it could also be that the snake just got tangled in the web and wore itself out trying to get free," Starrett,of San Diego State University,told Live Science. "I can't really say with out witnessing it."

Cheers.


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## pythoninfinite (Feb 16, 2016)

The spinning fast is interesting - we get a lot of them here, especially along cornices near the ceiling, and as soon as they get the idea that the vacuum cleaner is coming for them, they vibrate or spin very rapidly in their webs... makes no difference to their ultimate survival though ! The real problem for me is that they leave their dirty, smudgy webs all over the walls, and their droppings make a mess which is sometimes difficult to remove.

The snake looks like a juvie Dugite to me, and I think it is still very much alive, so I'd be willing to bet that it went on its way after the photo op, or it was despatched by the photographer... Another thing worth considering is that Daddy Longlegs eat Redbacks - their long legs keeping their vulnerable bits away from Redback fangs, so it's not inconceivable that the snake was caught up in the stronger Redback web and the DL was either on site at the time, or placed there for the photo. We'll probably never know...

Jamie


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## alichamp (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, and to Jamie for ID on the snake!


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