# Availability of rodents for snake food



## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

I notice more and more wanted adds for rodents particularly in Queensland. As the numbers of snakes requiring feed grows with the hobby, where will the feed come from?Not only are snake numbers rising but the snake sizes are rising as they get older so overall food requirements in Aus are trippling each year.. 
Clearly rodent prices are too low so there is no incentive for serious growers to enter the market at current prices. Next year expect to see a lot of thin snakes!


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree Wokka. I am very used to "cheap" rodents, especially considering I have previously bred my own and made a reasonable amount of money from onselling the excess. Now that I am living in a place where breeding rats isn't viable, I have come to the conclusion that I will need to shell out the big dollars to sufficiently feed my reptiles. To offset this, I am getting serious about breeding a lot of my snakes, something that hasn't been too much of a priority for me in the past.

Expect an email soon mate.

Cheers


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## Serpentor (Feb 11, 2009)

We have begun a massive rodent breeding project for this exact reason. I'd probably only ever consider breeding for my own reptiles though. It helps that we've gotten a few of the snakes onto hatchling chicks. Better for them I'd dare say too.


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## Hsut77 (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't think that the same problems are felt here in Vic, I am having to sell my excess to pet shops as I can't get rid of them to the general herping public. People down here seem to like to pay the 400% mark up the shops put on them.


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

I sell most of my surplus to petshops and a few regulars. Its alot easier than the inconsistent dealing with a lot of quibling keepers who argue over 10 cents hereor there.


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## scorps (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah I have been finding it difficult to source cheap good rodents so have started breeding them myself, Im starting off with 8 rat breeding tubs so should be more then enough to supply myself and y excess will go to the locale herp community with a good price just to cover costs.


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> We have begun a massive rodent breeding project for this exact reason. I'd probably only ever consider breeding for my own reptiles though. It helps that we've gotten a few of the snakes onto hatchling chicks. Better for them I'd dare say too.



How massive is massive? Why do you suggest chicks are better than rodents as feed?


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## Troy K. (Feb 11, 2009)

I have a lot of people ask me whether they should start breeding rats for their own snakes. My answer to them has been " work out what you want to be, a rat breeder or a snake breeder. If you want to be a snake breeder than get yourself an extra breeding female snake and the money that you make from selling her hatchlings will more than pay your rat bill " 
Some days while I'm working down with my rats I often think to myself " why the **** didn't I take my own advice"


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## pythoness (Feb 11, 2009)

I feed 90% chicks, and the other 10% i grow my own rodents. with the rat shortage, chicks are perfect for me and mine. They are not everyone's cup of tea, but to each their own.


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## Vincent (Feb 11, 2009)

I live in Sydney and have no problems getting rodents and i keep around 60 snakes.
The only problem i have is the way rodent breeders call the sizes of their rats. Medium rats are really small rats, large rats are really small-medium rats etc. It's a joke.
If rodents get too dear, rodent breeders might find keepers start buying cheaper alternatives like quails or chickens. Or alternating like rodents one week, birds next two weeks.


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## scorps (Feb 11, 2009)

wokka said:


> How massive is massive? Why do you suggest chicks are better than rodents as feed?



I agree do you have any fact that chickens are better or are you just going off your experience or just opinion?



And pythoness obviously your going to be bias as you run a business selling chicks, dw I would be the same if I had my hands on 1000's of chickens though.


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## No-two (Feb 11, 2009)

Hsut77 said:


> I don't think that the same problems are felt here in Vic, I am having to sell my excess to pet shops as I can't get rid of them to the general herping public. People down here seem to like to pay the 400% mark up the shops put on them.


 
Perhaps we all just thought to breed our own aswell. I like your thinking troy, My girlfriend takes care of all the rodents,cleans, feeds ect. All I have to do is say "tell me when theres this many of those, I need some" Then cull.


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## Justdriftnby (Feb 11, 2009)

Up until recently I have been lucky to feed with rodents that I have bred but I have had a bad season due to A: the heat and B: updating those females that breed badly. I am feeding only 4 adult snakes fortnightly (plenty of smaller snakes weekly) and its $50 each time but in saying that suppliers must have had a bad time with it as well because supplies are drying up.
However I have heaps of pinky mice through to adult mice if anyone in Vic is having trouble


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## Pythonking (Feb 11, 2009)

I feed all my snakes quails and chickens, was selling surplus but decided its a waste of time


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## Mudimans (Feb 11, 2009)

i have 14 breeding tubs set up with 3 females to 1 male in each, unfortunately my founder stock have myco so i'm now thinking of culling the lot and starting again. The pet shops around here sell XL Rats for $15, it costs me only around $40 a month to feed my collection breeding my own, would easily cost over $100 to buy them


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## Renagade (Feb 11, 2009)

i have noticed that in sydney inner city, there in little to no reptile food breeders. occationally i'll go out west and pick up a large stock for cheap prices and share amongst local herp friends. I dont have the room or the time (or the neighbours) to supply my own, but that is as good as it gets. It's dam expensive to feed large snakes, but recently i have notice an increase in the supply of frozen rabbits to this area. again, not cheap, but cheaper than Xlarge rats from the regular suppliers of pet shops in this area. If anyone is interested in rabbits as snake food in the inner west sydney, pm me for details.
ren


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## Serpentor (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't have fact to support my theory, just a bit of common sense. For rats or mice to be of adequate size to match up to a chick's size, then it follows that they must be older. If they are older, then they are likely to be carrying more fat. They will also have had more meals and more exposure to the environment around them. They might be more likely to be carrying trace amounts of chemicals or metals that have passed through feed, or any other number of areas. These are likely to be stored in said fat. Make sense, or does somebody have an opposing theory or fact?


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 11, 2009)

Troy K. said:


> I have a lot of people ask me whether they should start breeding rats for their own snakes. My answer to them has been " work out what you want to be, a rat breeder or a snake breeder. If you want to be a snake breeder than get yourself an extra breeding female snake and the money that you make from selling her hatchlings will more than pay your rat bill "
> Some days while I'm working down with my rats I often think to myself " why the **** didn't I take my own advice"



Haha, I just show up, load my Ute and walk away whistling....lol

Although our rodent bill is over the $10k mark per year (yes, we do charge ourselves), as Troy said, one extra trick BHP pretty much covers that. No time wasted cleaning bloody rat tubs, more time to concentrate on the joys of keeping and breeding reptiles....

With more sheds going up this year Troy should be able to take some of the pressure off the Brisbane and surrounding areas early next year.


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## Serpentor (Feb 11, 2009)

Den said:


> Haha, I just show up, load my Ute and walk away whistling....lol
> 
> Although our rodent bill is over the $10k mark per year (yes, we do charge ourselves), as Troy said, one extra trick BHP pretty much covers that. No time wasted cleaning bloody rat tubs, more time to concentrate on the joys of keeping and breeding reptiles....
> 
> With more sheds going up this year Troy should be able to take some of the pressure off the Brisbane and surrounding areas early next year.


ouch. While I'll probably always have some rodent breeding going, I'd have to agree with you and say that I don't know if I'll ever want to have enough food bred by myself for all the snakes I plan to have. Does put it into perspective though, doesn't it?


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## licky (Feb 11, 2009)

Rodents prices too LOW??????
You guys ever walked into a petshop???
Its quite possible that people looking for the cheap rodents in all the wanted ads.
But i have found my own place that sells cheap rodents. just got 15 adult rats for $40
I think thats cheap considering


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 11, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> ouch. While I'll probably always have some rodent breeding going, I'd have to agree with you and say that I don't know if I'll ever want to have enough food bred by myself for all the snakes I plan to have. Does put it into perspective though, doesn't it?




Sorry Serpentor, not sure what the ouch was about. I was chatting in general, Troy is my brother by the way.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 11, 2009)

Ahhh Serp, ouch to the $10k? Sorry, you lost me there for a sec...

I know a few people that spend double that each year. Worth it though...


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## Vincent (Feb 11, 2009)

I generally pay around $3.50 for a genuine medium rat 250+grams, and a $1.20 for a full grown mouse.


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## Serpentor (Feb 11, 2009)

Den said:


> Sorry Serpentor, not sure what the ouch was about. I was chatting in general, Troy is my brother by the way.





> Although our rodent bill is over the $10k mark per year



ouch


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## The Reptile Outlet (Feb 11, 2009)

Den said:


> Haha, I just show up, load my Ute and walk away whistling....lol
> 
> Although our rodent bill is over the $10k mark per year (yes, we do charge ourselves), as Troy said, one extra trick BHP pretty much covers that. No time wasted cleaning bloody rat tubs, more time to concentrate on the joys of keeping and breeding reptiles....
> 
> With more sheds going up this year Troy should be able to take some of the pressure off the Brisbane and surrounding areas early next year.


 

lol Denver. Just be honest. You were never meant to be a rat breeder were you?  Just thinking too, I hope you pay wholesale and not retail prices. lol.


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## Serpentor (Feb 11, 2009)

oh, and massive ain't massive for a rodent breeder who services other snake owners, just massive in terms of a private collection. I'm not too sure how many females we have going at the moment, but the boys can't seem to get around quick enough! 

I seriously considered breeding quails the other day. Least with quails you can do it on residential property (no roosters)


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## Pythonking (Feb 11, 2009)

yummy  KFC

just culled half of these


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## Den from Den Pythons (Feb 11, 2009)

Haha Joy, remember that night with the blood and my pretty white training gear? I was all set, Dave had the video ready and I thought "I'll just clean this rat tub first"..... Nailed on the finger, blood all over me, backhand for ruining the video...

We both know Troy is the better breeder out of the two of us.....Well, in the rat game anyways....hahahahaha


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## Hsut77 (Feb 11, 2009)

Vincent said:


> I generally pay around $3.50 for a genuine medium rat 250+grams, and a $1.20 for a full grown mouse.



250 gms a genuine medium?? Most of my breeding females top out at 300 gms and they are the old fat rats.


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## Magpie (Feb 11, 2009)

It's increasingly an issue.
I used to breed rats about 4-5 years ago for sale. From memory a pink rat was $1 and a large (250g) rat was around $4. I only ever paid for 30% of the feed and bedding, my Father in law paid for the rest on barter card. At those prices I reckon I got about a 50-100% profit - on MY expenses, about break even over all.
To be doing it at todays prices... well people have to be willing to pay more, it's that simple. 
Up here in FNQ, the rats from petshops are so dodgy I simply won't go there. There are a few small time breeder who I suspect are barely covering costs. Most people have to breed their own.


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## orsm (Feb 11, 2009)

Have you tried chicken wing instead? They cost about $3-$4/kg and my snakes seem to like them. They are certainly much cheaper than rats/mice.


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## caustichumor (Feb 11, 2009)

I have to agree, If you plan on having any type of sizeable collection you either need to breed your own rodents or be prepared to pay petshop type prices, But I find that I spend more time cleaning rat cages then python enclosures....


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

orsm said:


> Have you tried chicken wing instead? They cost about $3-$4/kg and my snakes seem to like them. They are certainly much cheaper than rats/mice.



What about sawdust , you can get that for free.


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## Pythonking (Feb 11, 2009)

wokka said:


> What about sawdust , you can get that for free.


 
hehe


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## caustichumor (Feb 11, 2009)

wokka said:


> What about sawdust , you can get that for free.



you only supplement with sawdust Wokka


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## MatE (Feb 11, 2009)

I will probably have to go back to breeding my own,as its getting rather expensive to buy them.Ill see if i can con my sister into breeding them,as she is on property.I have a good supplier,but when you have to feed a few pairs of adult animals it starts to add up.Its much cheaper to breed your own,but what a pain in the butt as it takes away from looking after your animals.


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

On average you feed a snake about 30 times a year. At say $5 a feed that only $150 per year. Hardly a fortune compared to the cost of a pet dog ,cat or horse. My kids cost me 100 times that and they dont even breed!


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## adbacus (Feb 11, 2009)

Has anyone approached any of the chook farms. Generally young roosters are humanely killed off and binned, with only hens are kept. I'm just wondering on what kind of prices we'd be looking at to purchase the carcasses instead of them being binned.


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## yommy (Feb 11, 2009)

adbacus said:


> Has anyone approached any of the chook farms. Generally young roosters are humanely killed off and binned, with only hens are kept. I'm just wondering on what kind of prices we'd be looking at to purchase the carcasses instead of them being binned.



50c ea from pythoness


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## Pythonking (Feb 11, 2009)

I think you would find with meat chickens they wouldn't bin them, but I suppose you never know.


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## mungus (Feb 11, 2009)

orsm said:


> Have you tried chicken wing instead? They cost about $3-$4/kg and my snakes seem to like them. They are certainly much cheaper than rats/mice.



Agree'd.
I also buy 100g Quail's for $1.35 each & 150g for $2.00.
Rabbits would also be a very good food source.
I also now breed my own rats, and only buy mediums when I need to.
The rat prices in QLD are more realistic than than NSW.
Some NSW breeders charge an arm and a leg for their rats, and reckon we winge for a few cents,
but if a few cents does'nt mean much to them, then they should drop their prices............
Its human nature to try and get the best deal you can so that both parties walk away happy.


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## MatE (Feb 11, 2009)

You must have skinny snakes lol.At $5 a feed.An adult bhp will eat 3-4 adult rats in a sitting and im paying $4 a rat.And i dont have kids as they cost to much lol.


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

You can get cull chooks or turkeys for nothing but I think theres a fair risk of salmonella as theres a lot of poo on the feet. If you have the time you can wash them. I got a couple of garbage bags full for my mates monitors and they survived but its too much of a risk for me.


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## adbacus (Feb 11, 2009)

My understanding from the butcher was that as soon as chicks are sexed, the roosters were identfied and were disposed off. It was also reiterated to me a year or so later when watching Jamie Olivers Foul Dinners.

Originally Posted by orsm 
Have you tried chicken wing instead? They cost about $3-$4/kg and my snakes seem to like them. They are certainly much cheaper than rats/mice.

==>I thought the advice some months back was that the necks were ok to use only occassionally as they did not contain as many nutrients. Is that now proven false?


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## wokka (Feb 11, 2009)

adbacus said:


> My understanding from the butcher was that as soon as chicks are sexed, the roosters were identfied and were disposed off. It was also reiterated to me a year or so later when watching Jamie Olivers Foul Dinners.



Thats what happens with laying ckickens and you can get them for nothing as long as you take a reasonable amount with no hassles (say 1000). Meat chicken die and are culled all the time throughout their growth and are also available for nothing.


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## cris (Feb 11, 2009)

Using chicken or rodent parts is a great way to reduce the number of rodents you need. Apart from that you would have to breed your own if you cant buy enough.


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## shonny (Feb 11, 2009)

*kids do the breeding*

I agree my kids cost me more too. But now my kids do the breeding of the rats I have teenagers and they love breeding them to feed the snakes. So the kids are kept busy learning the breeding cycle and life cycle of a rat... ur born,ur grow up, u breed if ur not lucky enough tobe keep to breed ur not ur snake food lol.





wokka said:


> On average you feed a snake about 30 times a year. At say $5 a feed that only $150 per year. Hardly a fortune compared to the cost of a pet dog ,cat or horse. My kids cost me 100 times that and they dont even breed!


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## mungus (Feb 11, 2009)

shonny said:


> I agree my kids cost me more too. But now my kids do the breeding of the rats I have teenagers and they love breeding them to feed the snakes. So the kids are kept busy learning the breeding cycle and life cycle of a rat... ur born,ur grow up, u breed if ur not lucky enough tobe keep to breed ur not ur snake food lol.



I knew I should of had Kids...........:cry::cry:


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## MatE (Feb 11, 2009)

My sister used to work at a produce store and she was saying that the crumbles that are fed to baby chickens have antibiotics in them,as she breeds her own chickens she feeds hers different food.Im currently trying chicken necks as a supplement,is anyone else trying them?


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## inthegrass (Feb 11, 2009)

i have about 50% of my snakes taking chicken legs and necks and i am working on the rest, they do not get chicken all the time. the rest of the time they get rats and quail.
cheers


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## KaaTom (Feb 11, 2009)

I will be breeding rats in large quantities to supply my own snakes and the surplus of snake owners that are fed up with paying rediculous prices from the stores....


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## shonny (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey Nic u said ur breedin rats to supply food for ur own snakes u forgot to post there to supply MY snake food too remember u have to look after family.. lol....



KaaTom said:


> I will be breeding rats in large quantities to supply my own snakes and the surplus of snake owners that are fed up with paying rediculous prices from the stores....


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## KaaTom (Feb 11, 2009)

shonny said:


> Hey Nic u said ur breedin rats to supply food for ur own snakes u forgot to post there to supply MY snake food too remember u have to look after family.. lol....


 
But you have twice as many snakes as me, oh how am I gong to cope :lol::lol::lol: You know I will, what's family for


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## beeman (Feb 11, 2009)

The statment of i am going to breed large quantitys of rodents to supply my own
needs and sell off the excess to other herpers is a huge joke!
Unless you are turning out rodents in the 1000s its not worth the effort as the costs
of rodent husbandry will bring the idea to a grinding holt!
Yes you have to take into account the breeding setup [tubs etc] , the feed costs, bedding costs,waste control, climate control costs and the most important cost of all labor!
We do breed rodents in these numbers and believe me its no walk in the park, and we arnt cheep as far as most other suppliers prices are concerned, but we are still a lot cheeper than the pet supply trade.


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## scorps (Feb 11, 2009)

beeman said:


> The statment of i am going to breed large quantitys of rodents to supply my own
> needs and sell off the excess to other herpers is a huge joke!
> Unless you are turning out rodents in the 1000s its not worth the effort as the costs
> of rodent husbandry will bring the idea to a grinding holt!
> ...




So me breeding rats for my collection or reptiles, then selling some extra rats localy to cover my costs (I dont consider my labour a cost more time I put into my hobby of reptiles) a joke beeman?


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## KaaTom (Feb 11, 2009)

scorps said:


> So me breeding rats for my collection or reptiles, then selling some extra rats localy to cover my costs (I dont consider my labour a cost more time I put into my hobby of reptiles) a joke beeman?


 
Thats right scorps we little uns are just laughable because apparently we dont know what we are talking about


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## beeman (Feb 11, 2009)

scorps said:


> So me breeding rats for my collection or reptiles, then selling some extra rats localy to cover my costs (I dont consider my labour a cost more time I put into my hobby of reptiles) a joke beeman?


 
Scorps, Breeding a few for ones personal collection is fine if thats what you want.
What i am trying to point to as soon as you start selling and dont include all of the 
cost associated with the production of the excess you are not fully realising the cost
of production or cost recovery


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## caustichumor (Feb 11, 2009)

Come on Beeman, we all know you bloody rodent breeders wear Gucci suits and a Rolex while cleaning cages....


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## pythons73 (Feb 11, 2009)

I currently breed my own,ive got 12-16 females and 3-4 breeding males,ive been breeding alot more than i need,so ive been selling what i dont need,if i had thousands i could get rid off them too.I admit to start up,with the cost of tubs,water drinking bottles etc,it can set you back a bit,but within the first month your well and truely covered cost.The ones i sell i only sell for a few $$$ and im still kicking butt.


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## scorps (Feb 11, 2009)

beeman said:


> Scorps, Breeding a few for ones personal collection is fine if thats what you want.
> What i am trying to point to as soon as you start selling and dont include all of the
> cost associated with the production of the excess you are not fully realising the cost
> of production or cost recovery




Ok beeman lets look at costs,

Say I feed my snakes fortnightly (most are fed more often then that but will stick with that to include if the snakes in shed or jsut not feeding for whatever reason,)

So I own 25 adult snakes all needing an adult rat, now theirs 52 weeks in a year, will half that to make it fortnightly  so now where left with 26 weeks meaning each snake will have 26 feeds a year, (yes I no theirs cooling and everything where they wont eat but lets say I'm not breeding this year) 

So 25x26=650

So that's on average 650 adult rats I'll go threw a year.

Now we need to decide where I buy my rats from, If I get from a petshop selling prices rodents I'll pay over 8 bucks each I think I was quoted 9.50 last time I looked. Even If i get them for a good price I'm looking at paying about 5 dollars each.

So:
650x9.50=6175
650x5=3250

So now we have come to the conclusion I will be paying between $3250 to $6175 for my personal collection yearly (this isn't including my hatchies, yearling and snakes that just arnt big enough to eat adult rats.)

Ok so here we are at your argument saying I wont make money, I highly highly doubt it will cost me 3-6k a year to run 8 tubs of rats.

According to my calculations you saying I lose money would be wrong, the way I see it is if I sell one pinkie rat for 50 cents I will still be alot higher up then If I where to just buy my own. 

Scorps


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## caustichumor (Feb 11, 2009)

I used to sell off my excess, which would have been enough to pay for the rodent feed, but now I breed only enough to feed my collection of pythons , Which suits me better, but If you have regular buyers then you can easily cover the costs of breeding and keeping your own rodents, effectively feeding all your animals for free (rodents and reptiles)


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## shlanger (Feb 11, 2009)

What happened to your Gucci suit and Rolex?


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## dickyknee (Feb 11, 2009)

mungus said:


> I knew I should of had Kids...........:cry::cry:



You want one , i got few lying around ......


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## mungus (Feb 11, 2009)

dickyknee said:


> You want one , i got few lying around ......



Are they cheap to run.......?
If not, then buying the rats would be the most cost effective way to go.......:lol::lol:


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## dickyknee (Feb 11, 2009)

mungus said:


> Are they cheap to run.......? :lol::lol:



No......one just gave me a $769.00 phone bill to pay :shock:



I used to buy all my sutff , then started to breed as it was gettign way to expensive for me ....i some times need to stock up from other breeders , but there is no way I can afford to buy all my rodents off some one else any more .


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## Boney (Feb 12, 2009)

your right wokka there is a huge shortage of rodents at the moment .why else would people be asking me to ship them to all states of australia .

alot of people get into rodent breeding untill they find out the work involved . also it tyes you down you cant go anywhere . . then when they go out of it and have to buy them in again they think they can get their rodents for cost price but without the work this time. what a joke . people want to pay bugger all for their rodents knowing all well what they cost to raise and the time involved . but then when they sell their snakes they want top dollar . when in alot of cases 1 clutch will pay for their years worth of rodents like has already been stated . breeding snakes is easyier then breeding rodents . well less time anyway ... the best 1 is blokes ask you for a price .you tell them and they say i can get them off joe blow for half that . next week they have another wanted add up for rodents :lol:


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## scam7278 (Feb 12, 2009)

***** insert plug***** if any one want quality rodents from andy (ANTARESIA1) and you live in sydney or brisbane i can pick them up for you and de;iver them to a drop off point for $50 for a Large poly box. A little cheaper for 2 or more


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## blackthorn (Feb 12, 2009)

I've been breeding my own rodents for about 1.5yrs, from the start I've recorded all expenses(excluding my time) and I've also recorded all sales of excess stock so that I can keep track of my costs. So far I have not made any profit from breeding my own rats and I haven't covered my costs yet.

I mostly only breed to feed my own snakes. I sell to 3 regulars when I have spare rats and can't even supply them with as many as they want. Though I must admit, I started the whole process badly and it has cost a lot more than if I had figured out how to set it up properly to begin with.

To date I have made back about 1/3 of my total costs.


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## blackthorn (Feb 12, 2009)

blackthorn said:


> To date I have made back about 1/3 of my total costs.



I forgot to include that I also 'charge myself' so I that I count what I feed to my own snakes as having saved that money. If I include the amount I've saved by not buying rodents, then I've made back just over 2/3 of my costs. 1/3 of my total costs have been covered by selling excess stock either frozen or as pets.


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## [email protected] (Feb 12, 2009)

what would a rat this size be worth?:lol:


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## cockney red (Feb 12, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> what would a rat this size be worth?:lol:View attachment 79393


10 bucks, to an Anaconda keeper.


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## OdessaStud (Feb 12, 2009)

alot of people get into rodent breeding untill they find out the work involved . also it tyes you down you cant go anywhere . . then when they go out of it and have to buy them in again they think they can get their rodents for cost price but without the work this time. what a joke . people want to pay bugger all for their rodents knowing all well what they cost to raise and the time involved . but then when they sell their snakes they want top dollar . when in alot of cases 1 clutch will pay for their years worth of rodents like has already been stated . breeding snakes is easyier then breeding rodents . well less time anyway ... the best 1 is blokes ask you for a price .you tell them and they say i can get them off joe blow for half that . next week they have another wanted add up for rodents 
__________________
I agree with the above comment 100% after 20 years of breeding rats commercially and for our own snakes ive given up and now only breed for ourselves.Any excess go into the freezer,needless to say my freezer is full,but to be honest id rather throw them away than have to deal with delivering, price adjustments, size conflicts and wasting time trying to keep everyone happy only to get abused or accused of selling dodgey rodents.My opinion is if you keep snakes and cant get feeders for the price you want to pay or the size you want or frozen or fresh or live or black, or white or 250grm not 240grm ,or just cant be content with whats around breed them yourself.JMO
Odie


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## fishead (Feb 12, 2009)

Yeah Wokka there's wanted ads but there's also for sale ads for frozen rodents with "hundreds packed ready to go".
The only reason that scenario could exist is that people, as mentioned, need the rodents but don't want to pay for example $4 for a rat or 70c for a fuzzy mouse. I can see both sides of the fence there but we all try to save a buck no matter which side we sit. Rodents are a lot of work to keep clean and there's all of the associated costs of maintaining them. I'm messing with mine every afternoon but it's just part of being a herper I think. Just buying them makes a lot of sense if you're selling a few animals, everyone will have an opinion on that and everyone has different circumstances, priorities etc. For me I think ten minutes down the rat shed each arvo is just a little part of the overall husbandary of my herps so no big deal. 
Consistancy of supply and sizing are major issues for buyers too. Size by weight I reckon.
At the moment I'm buying in 500 fuzzy mice per month, maybe not a big deal to some but with only two enquiries I'm saving $100 per hit. 
My spin on the rodent pricing for what it's worth is that I can see the costs in producing advanced / grown on stuff but fuzzies? You get a dozen or more out of a mum mouse, you don't even feed them, only hold them for a week or whatever and that's it. Say you have 100 mums doing that once a month and you're selling fuzzies for 50c each that's $600 per month for maintaining only a dozen tubs. The costs involved, about a bag of pellets $20, a bale of hisorb $20, plus throw in $20 for other stuff like your initial set up costs etc. You work a max of 15 minutes each day and one hour weekly to clean, that amounts to 8.5 hours per month so for your labours your making $63.50 per hour cash. What's wrong with that? Not too shabby but not enough apparently. 
Maybe we should look more seriously at alternatives. For the last year or two I fed my breeder jungles and bredli about 70 % quails and they seemed to jam the condition back on after laying. They are around half the price of rats by weight and a lot less fat. So win win.


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## funcouple (Feb 12, 2009)

fishead said:


> Yeah Wokka there's wanted ads but there's also for sale ads for frozen rodents with "hundreds packed ready to go".
> The only reason that scenario could exist is that people, as mentioned, need the rodents but don't want to pay for example $4 for a rat or 70c for a fuzzy mouse. I can see both sides of the fence there but we all try to save a buck no matter which side we sit. Rodents are a lot of work to keep clean and there's all of the associated costs of maintaining them. I'm messing with mine every afternoon but it's just part of being a herper I think. Just buying them makes a lot of sense if you're selling a few animals, everyone will have an opinion on that and everyone has different circumstances, priorities etc. For me I think ten minutes down the rat shed each arvo is just a little part of the overall husbandary of my herps so no big deal.
> Consistancy of supply and sizing are major issues for buyers too. Size by weight I reckon.
> At the moment I'm buying in 500 fuzzy mice per month, maybe not a big deal to some but with only two enquiries I'm saving $100 per hit.
> ...


 $20 for a bag of pellets. what size bag would that be? i normally buy 2, 20kg bags at a time. they were $28.80 a bag, now $35.30 for the same bag. im in south west sydney and only wish their was someone selling at $20 a bag. i think everyone that complains about the price of rodents sould try breeding their own. then they would see the costs, the cleaning, and the time it takes to grow them. if everyone started using weights insted of small, medium, large, there wouldnt be any confusion through different peoples sizings. all weights would be the same.


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## Boney (Feb 12, 2009)

after all costs are taken out eg food ,shavings,, equipment racks, tubs ,bottles. petrol to drive them to blokes that dont leave their homes , bags, freezers , electricity to run fans and freezers , phone calls , waste managment , renting gas bottles ,the gas then you got extra things to buy like regulators , things that break , just bought a small cryovac machine . some blokes rent sheds .. then you got to answer texts ,pms , emails ect think it worked out at $10.00 a hour profit . when you can get $28 as a labourer in a factory.

if you breed a pair of half decent pythons the time and costs involved to do that ? . you would be on about $1000 a hour ? :lol:

i love breeding stuff so i aint going to give up. but hey im going to maximize profits where i can . and sell my stuff at the true going rate just like everyone does in every game no matter what it is .


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## mungus (Feb 12, 2009)

Funcouple, there 20 kg bags & their $18.50 per bag.
Best I've used on my mice or rats.
The rats and mice are always pregnant and healthy.
Win, Win situation for us.
Good to have mate's with connections...........lol


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## stuartandconnie (Feb 13, 2009)

i have started breeding rodents because there is a short supply in my area 1 rodent breeder has gone under though miss management i do not plan on makeing the same mistakes[have lent WHAT NOT TO DO LOL]


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## Drazzy (Feb 13, 2009)

Rodents stink I would rather pay the price less worry


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## dickyknee (Feb 13, 2009)

funcouple said:


> $20 for a bag of pellets. what size bag would that be? i normally buy 2, 20kg bags at a time. they were $28.80 a bag, now $35.30 for the same bag. im in south west sydney and only wish their was someone selling at $20 a bag. i think everyone that complains about the price of rodents sould try breeding their own. then they would see the costs, the cleaning, and the time it takes to grow them. if everyone started using weights insted of small, medium, large, there wouldnt be any confusion through different peoples sizings. all weights would be the same.



I only pay $22 for a 20KG bag .


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm probably going to start getting mine from Petcity or Barry's Rodents...not sure.....


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## KaaTom (Feb 13, 2009)

Ive just started breeding rats again after having a few months off and sorting things out. I can say so far it has cost me $850 to set it up right and there ae still things I will need but in saying that I also have the space to expand (size of a 4 bay garage), I WILL make some money off it but it will take time and alot of effort. 
I have 4 kids that are also putting in time to help as this is a amily thing and they will get paid for it too. I prefer to breed my own for my snakes as it is cheaper. If I was going to buy from the shops I would be paying $100 a fortnight and I certainly would not be paying out that much to upkeep my rodents.
I guess it just depends on the individual as to whether they are willing to spend the time breedng them or whether the cost of buying them in the shop is just a more convenient way.


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## Crazy_Snake08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Serpentor said:


> We have begun a massive rodent breeding project for this exact reason. I'd probably only ever consider breeding for my own reptiles though.


 
same with me. i can't keep shelling out the $$$. I haven't got many snakes, but I fork out ~$250/month just in food. That's excluding the chickens/quails as treats


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## stuartandconnie (Feb 13, 2009)

*beeman*



beeman said:


> Scorps, Breeding a few for ones personal collection is fine if thats what you want.
> What i am trying to point to as soon as you start selling and dont include all of the
> cost associated with the production of the excess you are not fully realising the cost
> of production or cost recovery


 
get on with breedin rats


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree its worth growing rats for your own consumption but once you grow them for sale you should incurr the costs of gst,income tax, insurances and administration. As "Anteresia " said there is about $10 an hour left if you do it on a cash basis at current prices which doesn't cover the costs I mentioned.
Growing rats is the opposite to keeping snakes in that one is 24/7 and one isn't. To me it changes the pleasant flexable, pet of snakes into a demanding 24/7 job of rats.
As the character of snake keepers changes from enthusiast to pet keepers I notice the new keepers are less willing to want to play with rats and so more inclined tobuy rats which I believe is the reason for the shortage.


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## CodeRed (Feb 13, 2009)

So what would you consider a fair price for rats assuming you have to make a realistic hourly rate of say $40/hr ?


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

CodeRed said:


> So what would you consider a fair price for rats assuming you have to make a realistic hourly rate of say $40/hr ?



That will depend upon the economies of scale. At the moment demand is very inconsistent. We produce about 100,000 rodents a year mainly for our own use which consumes about 5000 hours of labour a year. (We have automatic water but not automatic feed). To increase 5000 hours by $30 an hour would cost $150,000 plus on costs, so say $200,000 which spread over 100,000 rodents is $2 a head.
If the production was raised to say 500,000 rodents a year you could probably warrant bulk feed and automatic packaging, feeding, watering, and more efficient delivery systems, which would reduce costs so prices wouldn't need to increase much.
Is the demand there?


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## coz666 (Feb 13, 2009)

my competitors have x large rats @ $18, i sell em for $12 and prices are quite low. through out.
if i had enough room i would breed more. but also legislation in brisbane has changed.
you are only allowed to have 1000 head of rat/mice per house hold (something like that) but up until about 5 yr ago it was double.
that includes babies. , so when you havea heap of babies and you are growing out your sizes it is hard to keep the numbers down, and produce enough to satisfy orders.


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

coz666 said:


> my competitors have x large rats @ $18, i sell em for $12 and prices are quite low. through out.
> if i had enough room i would breed more. but also legislation in brisbane has changed.
> you are only allowed to have 1000 head of rat/mice per house hold (something like that) but up until about 5 yr ago it was double.
> that includes babies. , so when you havea heap of babies and you are growing out your sizes it is hard to keep the numbers down, and produce enough to satisfy orders.



In residentialy zoned land animal breeding establishments is generally not a permissable use. I think the threshold of 1000 rodents per houshold is pretty generous. I supposed in a nut shell all these isues relate to the change from a hobby to a business. Hobbies survive because they often dont take into account many of the issues and costs that businesses have to. A lot of hobbiest push the boundaries which results in lack of consistency or unreliability when they get caught out.
That why we breed our rats , because we get a reliable supply. I am not prepared to rely on fudging council zoning, uninsured labour, or mates rates for feed; just because it produces cheap rodents. In the long run reliability is far more important than price.


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## smeejason (Feb 13, 2009)

i live in a residential area and just built a new house so as far as the wife is concerned i am lucky to put rats in her freezer. i am destined to pay for them and i am happy to do so . i buy a couple months supply and when i have a months left i pm barry and give him the time to have them ready rather than rushing last minute.. after seeing all the threads of the heat knocking rats off i am glad i have just had to worry about keeping my snakes cool and not rats as well.


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## chilli (Feb 13, 2009)

if it is so labour intensive, so cost ineffective, why do they only cost about 20cents each in the US? i'm sure if they cost that here, everyone could keep 10 times as many animals.


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

chilli said:


> if it is so labour intensive, so cost ineffective, why do they only cost about 20cents each in the US? i'm sure if they cost that here, everyone could keep 10 times as many animals.



Economies of scale and Mexicans


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## caustichumor (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> Economies of scale and Mexicans


:lol:


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## coz666 (Feb 13, 2009)

there is only a few real "business " breeders you probably know them anyway warwick.
personal pet services gold coast, 
piscies (barf)
and kelly ( ricki rats rodent shack ) in bundaberg.
i have been getting supplies of kelly for a while now
i guess if your thinking of producing enough to supply to brisbane and coasts you would have to match their prices and would have to combat the ever rising freight issues.
if you want their prices pm me. if you rang them i am sure they would send you pricelist


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

coz666 said:


> there is only a few real "business " breeders you probably know them anyway warwick.
> personal pet services gold coast,
> piscies (barf)
> and kelly ( ricki rats rodent shack ) in bundaberg.
> ...



I am not about to start trying to buy markets. Freight is another reason why our prices dont match the US. I send a few to Queensland now for a few regulars but as soon as I can find a reliable supplier I am out of messing around with rodents. Do you know anyone who would contract to garantee to supply say 1000 per week with penalties for non supply? I continually get enquiry from buyers who have been let down by their usual supplier.


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## CodeRed (Feb 13, 2009)

You'll pay a massive premium for the penalties :shock:


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## mungus (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> I am not about to start trying to buy markets. Freight is another reason why our prices dont match the US. I send a few to Queensland now for a few regulars but as soon as I can find a reliable supplier I am out of messing around with rodents. Do you know anyone who would contract to garantee to supply say 1000 per week with penalties for non supply? I continually get enquiry from buyers who have been let down by their usual supplier.


 
" Penalties for non supply " - :lol::lol: Your kidding are'nt you big fella :lol::lol:


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

CodeRed said:


> You'll pay a massive premium for the penalties :shock:



Maybe but reliability is important. You cant sell what you haven't got. It is common practice in bussiness but maybe not in hobbies.


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## CodeRed (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> Maybe but reliability is important. You cant sell what you haven't got. It is common practice in bussiness but maybe not in hobbies.



Reliability is very important but convincing a breeder to sign up to a penalty clause isnt likely to happen without a big price incentive.

BTW I love penalty clauses .. pays my company $150k per day because some idiot signed up to an unrealistic contract


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## The Reptile Outlet (Feb 13, 2009)

Warwick, I agree that it's really difficult to guarantee supply for sure.

When I used to work out with Troy (KBE Reptiles & Accessories), he would get the same queries as you do each and every week up here in Qld too. Phone calls from people who've been let down by their regular supplier. I know he has an extremely long waiting list of people who want a guaranteed supply and know that once on his list of regular customers, that will happen. He also has pressure from retail outlets, because when he knocks back the people who aren't his regular customers, they of course go to usual retail outlets, who then put pressure on Troy by increasing their orders. Even with adding a new shed to further expand, and another one on the agenda, it's still difficult to keep up with the demand. 

Like has been said though, it's 24/7. You don't get a break even for a day or two. Rodents don't realise it's a public holiday or the weekend and that you want to go visit and hang out with friends. You've still got your work to do. Can't just down tools because it's the weekend. To be honest, the poor old 'rat farmer' doesn't make much profit for all his long hours of work, and can say goodbye to the social life he once knew. 

Jason, there's probably a few more legitimate rodent businesses as well. I know you've listed 3, but I know of several more. KBE Reptiles & Accessories of course, and also Livefoods Unlimited come to mind quickly. Good on the people you mentioned as well. I know personally what damn hard work it is. I wish we had some of that good old 'mexican' labour up here. lol.

Cheers
Joy


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## OdessaStud (Feb 13, 2009)

Im just curious to ask all you 100,000 rodents per year breeders are you registered for GST?Do you have a registered business and how do you recoup your outlays when most snake breeders do not have an abn number? If you have to charge 10% on every rodent you sell be it a 50c pinkie or a $10 large rat. After being in that position and having a registered business and paying GST the amount of paperwork and extra costs involved not only to me but to the buyer starts to make things very complicated. Stock lossess have to be recorded, births, sales, rodents on hand be it live or frozen, feed outlays working out what items are inclusive or exclusive of tax the list is never ending. When does a hobby become a business???.
As for the penalty clause no rodent or animal breeder in their right mind would sign one we are dealing with living animals not material items that we can 100% control, things happen beyond our control just look at the fires down south, good luck finding anyone silly enough to take that contract on.JMO>


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 13, 2009)

If you have a rodent colony that is geared towards maximum efficiency, you will already be recording deaths, births, litter sizes etc anyway. You will also have worked out food consumption etc so you can price your rodents, as food is one of the biggest expenses.


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## FAY (Feb 13, 2009)

Troy K. said:


> I have a lot of people ask me whether they should start breeding rats for their own snakes. My answer to them has been " work out what you want to be, a rat breeder or a snake breeder. If you want to be a snake breeder than get yourself an extra breeding female snake and the money that you make from selling her hatchlings will more than pay your rat bill "
> Some days while I'm working down with my rats I often think to myself " why the **** didn't I take my own advice"


I don't want to be a rat breeder as such......but having the availability of them for your own snakes is so much more stress free than trying to find some to buy (esp in the peak eating season)and at the right SIZE!


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## gozz (Feb 13, 2009)

Isnt it funny that all the breeders are saying that theres no money in it , Kiss your social life
goodbuy. If its such a time consumming ,$10/hr not much money in it ,why do it ?
Heres the answer, you do make money from breeding , or you wouldnt do it
cheers


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## blackthorn (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm not as much concerned about the costs involved, I only sell excess rats every so often. But I'm willing to put in the work to breed a few rodents if only to have the knowledge that I have rats in the freezer that are the right size. It's also good to know what condition they're in, how long they've been sitting in the freezer for, and that I know what's still growing out in the shed for later. 

I have even told some of my regulars(which aren't so regular) that I can't supply them on a regular basis, and they keep trying to get rats off me because they can't find a reliable supplier and won't go to pet shops.


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## Boney (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> I am not about to start trying to buy markets. Freight is another reason why our prices dont match the US. I send a few to Queensland now for a few regulars but as soon as I can find a reliable supplier I am out of messing around with rodents. Do you know anyone who would contract to garantee to supply say 1000 per week with penalties for non supply? I continually get enquiry from buyers who have been let down by their usual supplier.


 

wokka, i think you may just have to pay a bit better mate . higher rewards means more reliablebilty .. if your getting paid bottom dollar its pretty easy to lose commitment fast . not saying you dont treat people right . but i know what it is like to work for people that treat you just like a number . if i died today it would say on my grave ANDY NUMBER 41 WELL TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF WORKER .... dont even think they would right the date or my age either :lol: ill work for $10 a hour but not $8.50:lol:


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## CodeRed (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> That will depend upon the economies of scale. At the moment demand is very inconsistent. We produce about 100,000 rodents a year mainly for our own use which consumes about 5000 hours of labour a year. (We have automatic water but not automatic feed). To increase 5000 hours by $30 an hour would cost $150,000 plus on costs, so say $200,000 which spread over 100,000 rodents is $2 a head.
> If the production was raised to say 500,000 rodents a year you could probably warrant bulk feed and automatic packaging, feeding, watering, and more efficient delivery systems, which would reduce costs so prices wouldn't need to increase much.
> Is the demand there?




So if the production cost is $2 per rodent (after paying someone else to clean them  ) why are some breeders asking $8 each? I can see an average wholesale price around $3 (ex GST) being pretty fair. You still make $100k and only have to manage the operation and provide the capital.

My own rodents cost an average of 29 cents each to produce (not counting my own labour costs and amortising the captial costs over only 3000 rodents). It actually got down to 16.7 cents each at one point when things were at their optimum and most of my production was mice pinkies/fuzzies for hatchies.


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## Aslan (Feb 13, 2009)

gozz said:


> Isnt it funny that all the breeders are saying that theres no money in it , Kiss your social life
> goodbuy. If its such a time consumming ,$10/hr not much money in it ,why do it ?
> Heres the answer, you do make money from breeding , or you wouldnt do it
> cheers


 
This does not seem relevant - everyone who has posted thus far breeds with the PRIMARY purpose of supplying their own collections...

...they sell off the excess which recoups SOME of the cost they have outlayed...

The reasons you have mentioned above are why there are very few rat breeding businesses established - and as Wokka has stated, in order to make a business of it you would need a astronomically large setup in order to buy your food etc in sufficient bulk, therefore increasing profit and making it feasible as a business...


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## Ramsayi (Feb 13, 2009)

Even at 5 bucks a rat thats $20/kilo.Too bad my snakes won't eat steak or venison.


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## zulu (Feb 13, 2009)

*re Availability*

You needa the bigga bunny rabbit Mr Ramsayi.you pat him you kill him snake eat him.


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

CodeRed said:


> So if the production cost is $2 per rodent (after paying someone else to clean them  ) why are some breeders asking $8 each? I can see an average wholesale price around $3 (ex GST) being pretty fair. You still make $100k and only have to manage the operation and provide the capital.
> 
> My own rodents cost an average of 29 cents each to produce (not counting my own labour costs and amortising the captial costs over only 3000 rodents). It actually got down to 16.7 cents each at one point when things were at their optimum and most of my production was mice pinkies/fuzzies for hatchies.



I was saying that to increase the labour rate to your requested $40 would require an increase in the price of $2per rodent in our operation. That would put pinkies at $2.50 each which is unachievable so in reality a grower would increase the larger rodents more and the smaler one less. These are very ballpark figures but what it does show is that there is very little profit in growing rodents so many people do it for reasons other than a normal business profit, or in an unsustainable environment such as the cash economy or subsidised with social security and the like.


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

Ramsayi said:


> Even at 5 bucks a rat thats $20/kilo.Too bad my snakes won't eat steak or venison.



At $20/kilo thats less than $1000 a year to feed a pair of Albino Carpet and progeny. The progeny are worth 10 to 100 times that ( if you were in it for the money). $1000 is probably the cost of feeding the average dog for a year.


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## CodeRed (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> I was saying that to increase the labour rate to your requested $40 would require an increase in the price of $2per rodent in our operation. That would put pinkies at $2.50 each which is unachievable so in reality a grower would increase the larger rodents more and the smaler one less. These are very ballpark figures but what it does show is that there is very little profit in growing rodents so many people do it for reasons other than a normal business profit, or in an unsustainable environment such as the cash economy or subsidised with social security and the like.



Ahh, that changes it quite a bit


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## KaaTom (Feb 13, 2009)

Jonno from ERD said:


> If you have a rodent colony that is geared towards maximum efficiency, you will already be recording deaths, births, litter sizes etc anyway. You will also have worked out food consumption etc so you can price your rodents, as food is one of the biggest expenses.


 
I already work my personal rats this way, I have several books noting different things ie 1 book for purchases, 1 book for sales & 1 book for recording births/deaths etc, I think it allows me to see what is coming and going and hence I can make a decision on what to charge people when I go from hobby to business. I already have an ABN registered for GST so just finishing the setting up.
There are alot of things I didnt consider which have now been rectified, so up up and away for ME :lol::lol::lol:


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## fishead (Feb 13, 2009)

Hey Andy, obviously there's the associated stuff and costs with grown on rodents. I was talking specifically about those fuzzies. 
Anyhow to the rodent breeders in general, urinating and moaning on here about customers and the way you run things doesn't seem like good business sense to me. Just shut your cloaca and fix what ever is broken :lol:


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## OdessaStud (Feb 13, 2009)

fishead said:


> Anyhow to the rodent breeders in general, urinating and moaning on here about customers and the way you run things doesn't seem like good business sense to me. Just shut your cloaca and fix what ever is broken :lol:



I hope you breed your own rodents its remarks like this one that make us moaning rodent breeders stop supplying customers with cloaca's like yours.

I rest my Case


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## wokka (Feb 13, 2009)

fishead said:


> Hey Andy, obviously there's the associated stuff and costs with grown on rodents. I was talking specifically about those fuzzies.
> Anyhow to the rodent breeders in general, urinating and moaning on here about customers and the way you run things doesn't seem like good business sense to me. Just shut your cloaca and fix what ever is broken :lol:



I think rather than moaning and groaning experienced breeder are sharing their experiences so that everyone doesn't have to make the same mistakes. There are heaps of wouldbe rodent breeders who have a go and give up. Its a lot easier to learn from others.


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## ihaveherps (Feb 13, 2009)

wokka said:


> Economies of scale and Mexicans



huh? Its cheaper to breed rodents in Victoria?


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## pythoness (Feb 13, 2009)

wow, according to these figures i should be putting my prices up


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## Vassallo2008 (Feb 13, 2009)

NO Probs Up Here.  Prices are ridiculous tho.. Orwell what can i say EXPENSIVE HOBBY


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## fishead (Feb 13, 2009)

More moaning odessa :lol:


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## Boney (Feb 13, 2009)

hey fishhead why dont you have a real go ?you cant even breed enough for your own animals let alone someone elses . cant believe your buying them in at all since there is so much money to be had and to be saved and theres only 15 minutes aday involved . :lol: . if you want to get personal mate dont hide behind your keyboard .


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## fishead (Feb 13, 2009)

:lol::lol::lol:
Who's hiding mate? You know where I'm at. 
Lighten up little fella.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 14, 2009)

wokka said:


> At $20/kilo thats less than $1000 a year to feed a pair of Albino Carpet and progeny. The progeny are worth 10 to 100 times that ( if you were in it for the money). $1000 is probably the cost of feeding the average dog for a year.



Thanks for that Wokka I feel better now.
Seriously though on the scale that you are doing rodents what does it cost you to produce a rat to 250grms? If you don't want to answer could you at least let us know what an acceptable profit margin on your turnover?


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## wokka (Feb 14, 2009)

I am involved in land development and for that we normally allow for 25% profit after GST but before tax. 
The exit point (the point at which you dispose of rats) would determine the price. I would guess than it would be profitable to sell 2000 of 250 gram rats live per week, ex cage with payment on delivery; for say $4 each. Once you start gassing , packing, freezing, storing, selling, invoicing, delivering, garanteeing and administering those 2000 rats a week the price probably doubles. 
We dont even try to grow 250 gram rats. Our average weight would be c;oser to 70 grams with most used as 
MR100 (medium rats) or PR5 (pinkies) or FR15 (fuzzies)


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## mungus (Feb 15, 2009)

I'd buy live rats if they were sold cheaper than the frozen ones.


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## funcouple (Feb 15, 2009)

wokka said:


> I am involved in land development and for that we normally allow for 25% profit after GST but before tax.
> The exit point (the point at which you dispose of rats) would determine the price. I would guess than it would be profitable to sell 2000 of 250 gram rats live per week, ex cage with payment on delivery; for say $4 each. Once you start gassing , packing, freezing, storing, selling, invoicing, delivering, garanteeing and administering those 2000 rats a week the price probably doubles.
> We dont even try to grow 250 gram rats. Our average weight would be c;oser to 70 grams with most used as
> MR100 (medium rats) or PR5 (pinkies) or FR15 (fuzzies)


sorry wokka i wont be raising my rats for 12-16 weeks till their 250g and selling them at $4 each, i dont care if their alive at that price and havent cost any extra to kill, bag, and freeze. theres no way i could even break even at $4


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## stuartandconnie (Feb 15, 2009)

rainbow__serpent said:


> I'm probably going to start getting mine from Petcity or Barry's Rodents...not sure.....


 
good luck with barry havent seen him 4 months i used to work there lol


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## yommy (Feb 15, 2009)

stuartandconnie said:


> good luck with barry havent seen him 4 months i used to work there lol



They are still up and running just got rats this afternoon. good prices too.......


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