# UPDATED: Disgusting case of neglect (pic heavy)



## CamdeJong (Jul 31, 2011)

On the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] of June I gave a classmate Sean a lift from Uni to a place he was staying for a few days while moving house. The tenant of the place was a fellow student who I’d been introduced to as a reptile keeper. I won’t mention his name at this point as the whole thing is a police matter but he’d told me he kept Jungle Carpets. He was otherwise very evasive about topics such as his keeping habits which I was told was very uncharacteristic of him as he usually bragged about his animals. Sean invited me into the place to see the animals as the owner was away for the entire Uni holidays (about 6 weeks) and Sean was concerned about their welfare.


The snakes were located in the garage, with some in an adjoined study. When I stepped into the garage I was overwhelmed by the stench of snake faeces and decay. Sean described the smell as the ‘Bowels of Hell’ and couldn’t stay inside for more than a few minutes. The first thing I noticed was the number of animals in the garage. There were at least 25 snakes, most in melamine cabinets and a few in click-clacks, all living in their own filth and old sheds. The only basic necessities they had were hides and water, with not all the bowls filled. _None_ of the enclosures had substrate, heating, branches or rough shedding items. All of the snakes I could see were jungles, and those which weren’t hiding were emaciated and close enough to lifeless. They were ranging in size from hatchlings which were stunted and dying to large jungles of about 2m. There were also a number of coastal carpets which I suspect were wild. Some of these were around 3m in length and kept in large melamine enclosures, while 5 smaller coastals were in the adjoining office, in stacked click-clacks with holes in the lids which were rendered moot by the stacked arrangement, so were without any ventilation. I usually have a strong stomach but lifting those boxes apart unleashed a smell that literally had me gagging. Never in the history of suppressed Death Adder poo has there been a smell like this. The coastals were living in a mix of their own faeces and tipped over ‘water bowls’ and were close to starvation, with clearly retained sheds. At this point I had to put the lid down and walk away, I was on the verge of tears. In total I counted 46 pythons.


After regaining my composure I spoke to Sean about the situation. It became clear that the owner had left the snakes in no one’s care and had done nothing but filled up a few water bowls before leaving. How a person could stand in that room and look at those animals and do nothing is absolutely beyond me. At that point I decided to attend to those snakes which were in the most dire conditions before contacting the local Parks and Wildlife Service. Sean and I gathered the tools required to clean the enclosures and a few rodents for the most emaciated animals, as there were no cleaning supplies but paper towels and only a few bags of fuzzy rats, not suitable for the hatchies or the adult snakes. We then spent 3 days cleaning and feeding the animals and I separated the snakes that I suspected were wild from the others. I checked a lot of the snakes for signs of RI, stomatitis and mites but surprisingly few such signs were visible. After every day I went home, scrubbed myself with F10, washed my clothes and showered thoroughly before going near my animals for fear of contamination.


On Monday the 28[SUP]th[/SUP] of June I contacted Parks and Wildlife, although getting a hold of them was a struggle. I ended up calling my local ranger who found a number that wasn’t disconnected. I even tried RSPCA but they were uninterested, no doubt because the animals in question weren’t furry. The local Parks ranger instructed me to continue cleaning and that Friday I was called in to give a statement. Sean and I spent four hours conveying the story to Parks officers and I gave them dozens of photographs taken before cleaning the animals. We then went back to Uni and tried to cover the ground we’d lost in this endeavour, and spent an entire MONTH waiting for Parks and Wildlife to act, and they only acted after Sean sent them an email outlining our disappointment at the time it took to see action.

On the 26[SUP]th[/SUP] of July we were informed that officers entered the premises, took a few photographs and left again. I’ve also been told that a police officer who was present at the house is intending to ask me to continue caring for them. I find myself disheartened that after all the effort I put in and the time I sacrificed to help these animals, the authorities cannot act quickly or efficiently to save animals that are _still_ in desperate need of veterinary care. I also find myself disgusted that I might be asked to care for them again. No doubt I would not be reimbursed for the effort I have put in and that I may yet continue to do, not to mention the strain I’ve put on my studies, and the fact that it is not my responsibility to have done anything in the first place. The owner has not yet returned from his holiday and every day I wonder how many of them are still alive.


I’ve added photos of some of the animals, including 5 young jungles which were housed in one enclosure. I find it reprehensible not only that someone can keep snakes in these conditions but that the relevant authority can be so ambivalent and slow to act.


Thanks for reading,


Cam














By the way, I'm having internet troubles and probably won't be on until tomorrow. Cheers.


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## Ambush (Jul 31, 2011)

That is just shameful.


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## Grogshla (Jul 31, 2011)

so sad.


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## nagini-baby (Jul 31, 2011)

i was looking at the photos gagging.. god only knows how it smelt.. good on you for careing. shame about the department.


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## Ambush (Jul 31, 2011)

nagini-baby said:


> i was looking at the photos gagging.. god only knows how it smelt.. good on you for careing. shame about the department.



I lookeda Pics before i read.. Made me mad


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## angie90 (Jul 31, 2011)

Omg... Horrifying story & pictures.. I hope karma gets the person responsible & that you are rewarded for doing what you've done! Hopefully Someone on here a bit closer to yourself can help with supplies/assistance!I really don't understand how someone could do this to the animals they obviously have some sort of passion for....Maybe we could all write in something to wildlife act & overwhelm them so they have to help? All the best


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## vampstorso (Jul 31, 2011)

How awful  that hatchie poking its head out breaks my heart further...wish i could take him to a real home! Hope something good comes from all this, and good on you!


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## Renenet (Jul 31, 2011)

Poor creatures. If I lived in Townsville I'd offer to help you out. I hate seeing animals in such sad condition.

So frustrating that the authorities are dragging their heels. Please let us know if there are any developments.


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## Banjo (Jul 31, 2011)

That is absolutely disgrace that any animals or reptiles be kept in those conditions. I hope the owner of the snakes feels the full grunt of the law.
Shame about the RSPCA not wanting to do anything, after all they are all animals whether they have fur or not.
You have done the reptile keeping community proud, maybe the owner should be paying you for the costs while he was on holidays.


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## Kelly86 (Jul 31, 2011)

OMG.... how disturbing, im disgusted  this guy should be made to live in his own filth and see how it feels...
good on you for giving these poor guys a voice and helping them, *** is wrong with the rspca!?!?! snakes are still animals and thats just disgraceful they wouldnt do anything!! 
seriously you should be proud of yourself for doing what you could for them, i hope the "owner" gets what he deserves


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## Eddie2257 (Jul 31, 2011)

i dont see how anyone can do anything like that to such beautiful snakes. he should have nis animals taken from him and never be able to get another licence.


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## Tildy (Jul 31, 2011)

OMG! That is terrible! Good on you for doing what you had to do. I wish I was closer so I could give you a hand. The poor things. I wish I could take them home and look after them. :cry: The authorities are shocking for taking so long.


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## mxf92 (Jul 31, 2011)

good on you for putting in all that effort, and i must say, thats apsolutely pathetic that wildlife services didn't really do much about it. absolutely PATHETIC!


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## pyrodarknessanny (Jul 31, 2011)

sadly if this was puppies or kittens the athourities would have seazed the animals by now and be building a crulty case. 

RSPCA are a joke at times "for anmials grate and small" my butt!!!

hope DERM / parks and wildlife do something about this... 

if people cant look after there animals then why have them in the first place. 

i would not be suprized if many of them have vairious health isues. D:


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## spilota_variegata (Jul 31, 2011)

This is the reason why some people shouldn't have snakes - or any animal for that matter. It's also the reason why you see people in the reptile trade selling snakes for a dime a dozen. Personally, I wouldn't take any of those snakes if you paid me to take them.

Good on you for caring.


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## Black.Rabbit (Jul 31, 2011)

bloody horrible!!


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## Trouble (Jul 31, 2011)

good on you, CamdeJong. It's great to see there are still people out there who will help these creatures instead of just turning a blind eye.
I wont comment on the so-and-so who's done this, as I'll get banned. 
Keep us updated. I hope they will all get the care that they need. again, good on you for doing all the hard work.


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## graphitebeans (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey, I'm a Townsville local, and I'm at uni too - let me know if you need any help at all. You are an amazing person for doing so much, and I'll help lighten the load if i can. email me at [edit: removed email address due to paranoia]


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## IgotFrogs (Jul 31, 2011)

poor babies


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## pythrulz (Jul 31, 2011)

Thats really disgausting and sad to see I hope the persom responsible for there so called care is charged and can never keep reptiles or any animals again


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## Em1986 (Jul 31, 2011)

This is so sad and selfish of the owner, rather than neglect all his animals why couldn't he have sold them?
It is disgusting what they are living in and even worse that nobody wants to do anything serious about it! 
You should be proud of yourself for helping! If i was there i would help look after them and adopt as many as i could house and look after properly and give them the care they deserve.
Please keep us updated about this situation, it is truely a very sad and disgusting situation


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## phantomreptiles (Jul 31, 2011)

That is disgusting! I have a friend who is a vet and volunteers for the RSPCA, I have forwarded this on to him....if nothing is done remember 60mins love stories like this. Good on you for doing something


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## timantula (Jul 31, 2011)

i have no words that i can say on here about this...... the person responsible for that needs to be taught a lesson and im not talking about fines,loosing the snakes or a slap on the hand... ill be showing these pics to a mate and his blood WILL BOIL, without saying too much this guys is a psyko and will.... nar ive said enough. that makes me sick.


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## Fantazmic (Jul 31, 2011)

yep I think threatening to go public............I would be telling the RSPCA that they advertise for all animals great and small and they have done nothing about these snakes....unless they think that are treading on the toes of the wildlife service because they are animals kept under licence......I really do wonder why we are licenced when this sort of thing can happen and nobody does anything about it......

Please let us know what eventuates.......


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## SteveNT (Jul 31, 2011)

The "unpleasant people" (gotta be careful, I'm already deemed naughty) are always there mate. Goodonya, you're one of the good guys and you have my respect.

A pox on that bloke and I suggest you try and find a sympathetic ear in Parks through personal contacts, paperwork is just that, a defense mechanism for beaurocrats!


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## Renenet (Jul 31, 2011)

I hope the snakes are all rehomed with responsible keepers and have lives of luxury.


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## Necrotique (Jul 31, 2011)

Well, that just makes me want to cry.
In regards to the RSPCA, I've recently been trying to get them to act (with the local government) on a kitten mill I'd seen while searching for a new pet. I never got a call back from either after multiple emails and calls and the fraudulent seller who says she's a breeder is still selling the animals for exorbitant prices. I really think people just don't care about animals much these days.
However, good on you for doing this. It's unsung heroes like you that make this country better for its' beautiful array of animals.


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## Wookie (Jul 31, 2011)

Well done Cameron! You've done a great job. They were in truly appalling conditions, I had no idea it was quite that bad! The authorities have handled it terribly, even when presented with evidence which is hard to believe. Hopefully all the animals recover well and reach a condition where they can be auctioned or balloted out. Hopefully it doesn't come to seizure and euthanasia of the animals in question. I am sure I am not alone thinking that the owner should reimburse you for materials, travel costs and an hourly rate. You should be commended for your actions, well done.


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## Renenet (Jul 31, 2011)

Wookie said:


> I am sure I am not alone thinking that the owner should reimburse you for materials, travel costs and an hourly rate.



Someone certainly should. Now that I've cooled down a bit: well done, Cam, for caring about these animals.



Wookie said:


> Hopefully it doesn't come to seizure and euthanasia of the animals in question.



That would be awful.


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## MathewB (Aug 1, 2011)

As someone else has said if it really gets to the point were no-one is listening email ACA or 60 minutes etc. You should get a medal or a trophy, I'm thinking


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## Wookie (Aug 1, 2011)

MathewB said:


> As someone else has said if it really gets to the point were no-one is listening email ACA or 60 minutes etc. You should get a medal or a trophy, I'm thinking



I am sure Cam would settle for 46 pythons :lol:


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## $NaKe PiMp (Aug 1, 2011)

mate i have never felt sosad looking at pictures,i actually have tears ,i dont thinkive ever felt this upset over pictures of snakes living in poo land

keep this thread updated and get as many people involved

im even more disturbed about the authorities reaction


p.s your a saviour loooking after those poor creatures


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## Scalygirl (Aug 1, 2011)

This is a really nasty story - my theory is that people who abuse animals (or even other people) like that get paid back in some way in the next life. It would be wrong if they weren't.

Good you Cam, for getting straight in and starting the rescue.

Scalygirl


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## Chrisy (Aug 1, 2011)

OMFG!!!! The guy should be made to live in his own waste and not be fed for weeks, see how he likes it. My heart was breaking to read and see the pics.

Your a champion cleaning the 'enclosures', how you resisted not taking them home with you is beyond me, I would have taken them home with me.

For some one to leave them in that state and in those conditions and with no one designated to look after them while he is away having a great time, is disgracfull and pathetic. Hope that when the house mate comes home he is charged with neglect and has the licence revoked. 

Hopefully wildlife/DERMA/RCPCA does something soon instead of sitting back doing ????

Keep us updated with how you go with their care and the fate of the little guys and what happens to the scum that left them in that state.


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## D3pro (Aug 1, 2011)

That doesn't look good. Good to see that you have taken extra time from your studies to look after them.
Personally I think the RSPCA does less then it should in many situations. Are you sure this person has a licence and if so were the animals in his books?


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 1, 2011)

You are obviously a good man for having done what you did. Take heart from that.

I am absolutely appalled at the apathy shown by both organisations. It makes you wonder whether they are in for the animals or simply the power.

I would have been tried to contact the RSPCA first and get them out there before touching anything. I know that may seem a bit harsh, but it allows for a full prosecution of the person responsible. It should be up to the RSPCA to involve DERM. Failing a positive local response from the RSPCA, I would have rung their head office for the state. If they weren’t prepared to act immediately, I would have threatened to get the local paper down there with a title on the news item something like “RSPCA don’t care” and I would also have threatened to pursue one the TV news programs. All of which is academic now.

In your shoes, I would write to the state headquarters of the RSPCA telling them pretty much what you told us (plus who you spoke to or at least the phone number, date and approximate time of day) and include a printout of some of the photos. Express you concern and disgust at the lack of response on the local level and cc a copy of the letter to your local member, explaining it just isn’t good enough for locals living in Townsville. This organisation exists to service the community and the name is supposedly self-explanatory.

I would do a similar thing with DERM for their tardiness in acting. Also explain that you simply do not have the time or monetary resources to take on the “voluntary” care of 46 pythons and it is highly unreasonable of them to ask you to do so simply because you have the expertise and have demonstrate a genuine concern for the animals. In other words, taking advantage of you. Be prepared for their possible response that the alternative may be euthanasia. There may be no other practical alternative. I have no idea how DERM operates unfortunately. 

In fact – draft both letters and send them to your local member first, explaining what you intend to do.  Ask if he/she can suggest a better strategy before you send off the letters, so your local community is better serviced by these two institutions in the future. He/she may want to take it up in parliament.

The only other advice I can offer is, hard as it may seem, try not to do too much more in order to force the appropriate authorities to get off their butts and earn the wages the paid by doing what they are supposed to do.

I don’t envy you. Top effort! Good luck with resolving and I hope it can be done quickly, for your sake.

Blue


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## CHEWY (Aug 1, 2011)

Awesome and selfless work. You should be proud of you efforts.
RSPCA should have got involved as it is clearly a animal cruelty case, but may nothave been inclined to as they feel it is more under the National Parks umbrella. Either way, to take a month for any organisation to make a move (and only after you and your friend chasing them up) is just pathetic.

As usual, I totally agree with everything Blue has said. If they still haven't come around again (at least to check on the continuing health of the animals to buld a case), I think it is time to name and shame.
For a government body to ask you, a member of public to take custody and responsibility of these animals id rediculous. (A person who finds a malnourished child would be asked to adopt the child) These snakes should be in the care and custody of a vet (I'm not insinuating you can't look after them, because quite obviously you alrady have) or someone affiliated with the prosecution team. These snakes are evidence and there should be continuity of evidence. If you nurse these snaes back to health without DERM recording everything, this guy may only gat a slap on the hand for having dirty inclosures.
It's a sad picture but this is how the system is (I'm not saying works) but that is how things are done and I can't see them changing anytime soon.


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## mrkos (Aug 1, 2011)

I can smell that from here its a shame how people think it's cool to keep large numbers of snakes yet are uncapable of caring for them those photos are disgusting good on you for doing the right thing if you have no luck with RSPCA try your local health or welfare body the bacteria floating around in that room would pose a significant health risk I feel sorry for his housemates


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## Bel03 (Aug 1, 2011)

Well this definately wasnt the best thread for me to be looking at first thing in the morning........ although animal abuse is common, i am still in shock that someone would keep their animals like this.......those pics are heartbreaking! How 'lucky' they are that u turned up & CARED......i hope something changes really soon so your hard work, & their lives, doesnt to go to waste! This is one of those times where i wish i was 'in charge'.......this bloke wouldnt have any animal ever again!


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## Suenstu (Aug 1, 2011)

Good on you Cam, that's all I can say. Horrid absolutely horrid. I think you really should go public with this. ACA, 60 minutes, any of those shows. RSPCA needs to do something, DERM needs to do something, National Parks and Wildlife where are you? Is this doofus licenced?


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## snakeluvver (Aug 1, 2011)

Looking at these pics I'm furious at how anyone can keep snakes in this condition. What makes me even more furious is that the useless RSPCA did nothing at all



Suenstu said:


> I think you really should go public with this. ACA, 60 minutes, any of those shows.


Well unfortunately unless its about rising grocery prices or the "neighbour from hell" they wont be interested, anyway, I'm sure the public arent in the least bothered that some snakes arent being kept nicely


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## FlippinBirdies (Aug 1, 2011)

I didnt look at the pics. I couldnt bare to. I just know that everything happens for a reason and you being shown them was the best thing that could of happened. Seriously good work for reporting him. I really really hope this guy gets the full wrath of the law and not a slap on the wrist. Im beyond appalled and am really proud to know people like you are out there willing to make a stand. I hope the matter is dealt with swiftly.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Aug 1, 2011)

that is disgusting. thats all i can say. i am in shock. 

Camdejong- can u please email me your bank details and i will donate something towards the care of these poor pythons..


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## Snakewoman (Aug 1, 2011)

That's absolutely disgusting. I feel so sorry for those animals, I don't understand why someone would keep snakes that way. I hope that guy gets what's coming to him! Good on you for doing something about this, you no doubt saved the lives of these snakes.


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## Pamahu (Aug 1, 2011)

After reading this story i was almost in tears. OMG those pictures, words can not describe my thoughts on them.
Like many of us our hearts bleeds for these neglected beauty's.
I appauded you and your friend for taking the time to look after these animals correctly.
I am disgusted that someone can leave any animal it that type of condition. Let alone leave for 6 weeks and not have someone to care for them. 
With the poor performance of the authoritys to do something quickly about it shocks me. If it was a cat, dog or even a horse something would of been done within a few days. 
It sickens me to see that their are people in this world that refuse to care for their animals correctly. 
Our only wish is that these beautiful snakes are nursed back to full health and can live a happy life under the care of an owner that will provide them with the correct care and love.


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## Chris1 (Aug 1, 2011)

thats just disgraceful, i can smell those funky brown pools of snake pee from here. ;(

im not surprised the RSPCA did nothing, since joining this forum ive seen too many stories where they obviously dont give a hoot about anything,..i stopped donating to them after reading about the guy witnessed someone pouring petrol over a live python, and setting it alight, he got pics, passed on the offenders contact details etc to the RSPCA and they still werent interested, i dont think the guy even got fined!!

are there any numbers we can call to let them know more people are taking an interest in their complacent attitude?

man i hope the 'owner' gets some jail time and huge fines for this,.....


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## eitak (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm in Townsville and can lend a hand if you like. PM me


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## Retta4jungles (Aug 1, 2011)

If it were any other animal without food and water and heat and living in those conditions RSPCA would have taken them straight away and the owner charged with neglect. This disgusts me. I hope he gets what he deserves.


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## brisbaneboy (Aug 1, 2011)

this is disgusting and sad how can people live with them selves when they treat life like this. does anyone know what will happen to the snakes once the owner comes back i hope they go to a good home and dont get put down


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## CamdeJong (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks so much for the support and concern everyone, I'm hoping to gain access to the house today and check on the snakes. Particular thanks to those offering help and funding but at this point I think the priority is to make the relevant authorities/media/public aware of this situation and the failures of the system so that the animals get proper veterinary care. I've been able to keep the most serious cases going, apart from one hatchling who will not feed even when prompted by scenting and braining, and is so stunted and weak that I am uncomfortable force feeding. My concern from the start has been the likelihood of euthanasia, as I can't bare the thought of these poor things living such horrible lives and then not being given a chance to find a good home and live happily. I'm keen to contact ACA or 60 minutes and to forward my previous emails and letters to higher RSPCA and DERM authorities and local ministers, but unsure where to start.
I'll keep you all posted whenever I can. 
Cam


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## SYNeR (Aug 1, 2011)

That's so horrible.

And here I was thinking the RSPCA's slogan was "ALL creatures, great and small".
Yet again they show what a joke they are.


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## K3nny (Aug 1, 2011)

Not sure which is worse in this case, the guy or the authorities...Gather up all email convos, pics and msges and build up the case, thats usually a good start


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## KingSirloin (Aug 1, 2011)

Chris1 said:


> .....are there any numbers we can call to let them know more people are taking an interest in their complacent attitude?



Yes, A Current Affair, Today Tonight etc.... Sometimes people don't do anything until they're exposed on tv, especially organisations.....animal care in this case. Even ring the talkback radio stations and state the case.


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## Deb64 (Aug 1, 2011)

A very sad situation... I dont understand why some people keep animals when they have no respect for them.... This suxs


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## hurcorh (Aug 1, 2011)

It was great of you to do something about it. This is horrible.


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## Reptile_Maniac (Aug 1, 2011)

how can someone be so cruel?


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## Morgan_dragon (Aug 1, 2011)

Any reason why you can't just find his book and let him come home to no snakes? I'm sure there would be many around that would adopt them if they were free to a good home...

Be proud of yourself and good on his flatmate for alerting you to these poor guys.

This is absolutely appalling. Are there any food breeders/pet supplies up that way that could maybe help out? Perhaps if two or three of them donated some food and bedding these guys would have a fighting chance....

Didn't really think of myself as much of a snake lover but to be honest even I had tears in my eyes.....and the poor python with the massive fly sitting on it? *tears

This guy needs to be chained to a collar and locked in a bare room with nothing but a water bowl for a couple of weeks....every other day throw him some scraps and then see how he feels.


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## Royziee (Aug 1, 2011)

Call ray Hadley! It isn't pollitics but he's always willing to point out someone in the wrong


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## hustler975 (Aug 1, 2011)

I am located in townsviile and am willing too help in any way, how bout we release the name and address of this pathetic excuse for a human being, me and a few lads would love to pay a freindly visit


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## reaver (Aug 1, 2011)

Damn thats gotta be placing a lotta extra stress on your life but good on you for helping out the poor buggers. Is it possible for you to get full ownership of the snakes, if so I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would take them off your hands and care for them on here, hell I wasn't planning on getting another snake any time soon but even I'd make room for one in my house just to ensure it has a happy and safe future.


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## CamdeJong (Aug 1, 2011)

reaver said:


> Damn thats gotta be placing a lotta extra stress on your life but good on you for helping out the poor buggers. Is it possible for you to get full ownership of the snakes, if so I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would take them off your hands and care for them on here, hell I wasn't planning on getting another snake any time soon but even I'd make room for one in my house just to ensure it has a happy and safe future.



I considered playing with the paperwork and taking them all but I don't have the time, resources or money to pull it off, and I'd like to make a career in reptiles and it wouldn't look good. Unfortunately the right thing to do doesn't always fit to the law. All I can hope is that something comes of all this; a good life for the animals, some much needed policy changes and hell on earth for the owner.


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## Smithers (Aug 1, 2011)

CamdeJong said:


> Thanks so much for the support and concern everyone, I'm hoping to gain access to the house today and check on the snakes. Particular thanks to those offering help and funding but at this point I think the priority is to make the relevant authorities/media/public aware of this situation and the failures of the system so that the animals get proper veterinary care. I've been able to keep the most serious cases going, apart from one hatchling who will not feed even when prompted by scenting and braining, and is so stunted and weak that I am uncomfortable force feeding. My concern from the start has been the likelihood of euthanasia, as I can't bare the thought of these poor things living such horrible lives and then not being given a chance to find a good home and live happily. I'm keen to contact ACA or 60 minutes and to forward my previous emails and letters to higher RSPCA and DERM authorities and local ministers, but unsure where to start.
> I'll keep you all posted whenever I can.
> Cam




Mate your doing an awesome effort considering your studying, Thanks on behalf of the critters. Time and again no government action has a drastic turn around once they are exposed on ACA or the like. Go for it. Best of Luck


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## Jackrabbit (Aug 1, 2011)

I am assuming this guy sin't a member of this forum or he would never have left his animals in that state. You should try to get his email and send him a link to this thread so he can see the disgust he is held in.


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## Ozzie Python (Aug 1, 2011)

Jackrabbit said:


> I am assuming this guy sin't a member of this forum or he would never have left his animals in that state.



:shock: you sure? some of the worst collections i have seen are from members of this forum. not this filthy, but still well up there.


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## kawasakirider (Aug 1, 2011)

I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said. 

The owner of these animals is a disgrace, and it's very fortunate that someone informed you of the conditions the snakes were living in. I doubt having his license taken off him would do anything, if he shows such a blatant disregard for animals that he's supposed to care for, I wouldn't be surprised if he had reptiles off license. I also don't think ACA or 60 minutes would give a damn, unfortunately.

I used to work for DERM, and I'd say that if you went to an office and tried to tug on the heart strings of the people who work there, they may be inclined to take action and inform someone who actually cares/has the power to do something. Make up a few flyers with some details and the pics of the animals, and drop them off at the DERM office and ask for them to be passed around. It's worth a shot.

You're a fantastic person for taking the time to do this, I'd like to think that anyone on this forum would do the same. It would be very hard to turn a blind eye, but I'm sure it happens. It's heartbreaking to know that animals don't have a voice, and their quality of life is dependent on if they are picked up by someone who cares, or a prick. Good on you, mate.

In regards to the hatchling that won't eat and you're too scared to force feed, is it still alive? What about a bit of mush in a syringe if you could supply it with some adequate heating, or a rat tail or something?



Ozzie Python said:


> :shock: you sure? some of the worst collections i have seen are from members of this forum. not this filthy, but still well up there.



Have people posted pics, or you just know them?


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## Leeloofluff (Aug 1, 2011)

I would have killed him, what a scum bag for causing such conditions, and I commend you on your efforts at helping them and raising the alarm


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## timantula (Aug 1, 2011)

ive sent the info to aca...... Thank you for contacting A Current Affair.

Our viewers are a great source of information and inspiration to us. We welcome your comments, stories and suggestions.

We regularly check our email inbox, but due to the sheer volume of emails we receive, we cannot respond individually. We will be in contact if we think we can help you.


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## Australis (Aug 1, 2011)

Everyone has a mobile phone these days, how about just calling the owner?
He may want the animals dispersed.


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## timantula (Aug 1, 2011)

ill have his phone number.... but after i call him he'll be as white as a ghost and messed his pants..:twisted:


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 1, 2011)

CamdeJong said:


> …. My concern from the start has been the likelihood of euthanasia, as I can't bare the thought of these poor things living such horrible lives and then not being given a chance to find a good home and live happily. I'm keen to contact ACA or 60 minutes and to forward my previous emails and letters to higher RSPCA and DERM authorities and local ministers, but unsure where to start.
> I'll keep you all posted whenever I can.
> Cam


 
To minimise the likelihood of euthanasia, the RSPCA involvement would be your best bet. Here is some info that should help…

RSPCA emergency and complaints hotline: 
1300 852 188

Email address for reporting cruelty to animals: 
[email protected]

An RSPCA web page with a bit of relevant info on it:
RSPCA QLD

*RSPCA Qld’s Media Manager Michael Beatty call 3426 9902 (0415 386 602 after hours) or e mail* [email protected].

• Janet Gamble, State Wildlife Coordinator RSPCA Qld, 0415 385 604


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## CamdeJong (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks so much Blue. I'll make a start tonight after class, and post what I send on here. Local RSPCA weren't at all interested but hopefully state officials will make a difference.


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## Jen (Aug 1, 2011)

Just a suggestion, but have all your friends in the area - and any reptile keepers from this site in the area, also call the RSPCA. I find it beyond pathetic that they aren't interested. Call them and say something like " I have found all these ANIMALS living in their own feces, in cramped conditions and without food or clean water. Many are emaciated and in need of veterinary attention". When they ask what kind of animal, ask them why that matters. Tape the call if you can too.

I only ever donate to animal charities (and cancer, my theory is if they can cure it in humans then they may be able to cure it in animals) as animals can't take care of themselves, but will no longer be donating to RSPCA if this is their attitude. All creatures great and small my bum.


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## Waterrat (Aug 1, 2011)

Cam, I would contact your local MP and ask him to make a submission to the Minister. Also, lodge an official complaint to the QPWS regional Director. Things will move, believe me.
The QPWS is in dire straits financially due to the natural disasters, they are now even selling off vehicles, that's how bad things are, however, it's their duty to act and in deed they should act swiftly.


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## kawasakirider (Aug 1, 2011)

Why not make another thread asking members to ring the RSPCA and make a complaint? 

If you're not in a position to give out the address on a public forum, could a complaint be put in by someone who knows the finer details and a reference number be given? Then a bunch of people could just ring up and state the ref. number and complain.


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## CamdeJong (Aug 1, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Cam, I would contact your local MP and ask him to make a submission to the Minister. Also, lodge an official complaint to the QPWS regional Director. Things will move, believe me.
> The QPWS is in dire straits financially due to the natural disasters, they are now even selling off vehicles, that's how bad things are, however, it's their duty to act and in deed they should act swiftly.



Sean's planning to do that shortly as well, he said. He's just contacted the local team leader of QPWS for an update but no response yet.

I notice a few people are sharing the thread on Facebook, that's a good idea, to help get some awareness. What has the response been like?


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## timantula (Aug 1, 2011)

ive just spoken to the qld rspca on 1300 852 188. the lady pulled up this thread while i was talking to her and she was quite disgusted.... please call them again cam.....


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## WomaPythons (Aug 1, 2011)

my support is there cam i got the food if needed u know where to find me


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## Bryce (Aug 1, 2011)

I feel sick after seeing that. Those poor animals!


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## CamdeJong (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks timantula for getting through to RSPCA, they're calling me back very shortly. And thanks Matt, hopefully I'll get a chance to get in there on Wednesday, we'll sort them out.


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## timantula (Aug 1, 2011)

no worrys mate ill go any length to stop animal abuse!!! but your the king in this case, good luck with it and please keep us up to date


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## nakerz_the_herp (Aug 1, 2011)

I admire you for being able to hold a steady temperment throughout this ordeal. I would have promptly punched the owner in the face repeatedly and taken the snakes because almost any home is better than that. I am personally looking after a mate's snake that would be in those conditions if he didnt give it to be to look after. I lent him 'Care of Australian Reptiles' by John Weigel and told him sternly to read it before he sets up the new enclosure for his snake...


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 1, 2011)

CamdeJong said:


> ….I've been able to keep the most serious cases going, apart from one hatchling who will not feed even when prompted by scenting and braining, and is so stunted and weak that I am uncomfortable force feeding…. Cam


 For the one that won’t eat here are a few suggestions based on information gleaned from the APS site:


Mouse tail, lubricated with egg white or water and placed 2-3 cm into the mouth of the python. Mouse tails do not carry a lot of nutients but they are a good ‘starter’ meal.
 ‘Pinky pump’. Pinky mush injected straight down the throat into the stomach using a syringe and thin plastic tubing lubricated with egg white or water.
Use a appropriate sized syringe and thin plastic tubing lubricated with egg white or water, fill the syringe with plain regular yogurt, as this has a live bacterial culture in it and squirt it down their throat. It will jump start their gut fauna making them hungry. The next time food is offered the vast majority of animals eat without assistance. If you wish to add extra nutrition to that you can mix it with a little turkey baby food or chicken baby food or pinky mush.
 If you do not feel confident in utilising one of the methods, there maybe an APS member experienced in doing so in Townsville. If not, ring a local wildlife carer because that is a technique often utilised for rescued animals.

Hope this helps.
Blue


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## Radar (Aug 1, 2011)

Hi mate, 
Firstly, as everyone else has said, nice work. 
Secondly, if you want some free mice to feed the smaller stuff, pm me, we've got a 'few' floating around here :lol:
Thirdly, as much fun as it would be, do not go to ACA or one of those shows. They won't destroy the person in question, they will try to destroy the hobby as a whole. 
And last, PM me the owner's name. I have my suspicions. If it is who I think I have come to blows with them in the past over similar matters. 

Cheers bud.


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## ozziepythons (Aug 1, 2011)

I went to a wildlife park in SA a few months back that kept some of their reptiles in revolting, unhygenic and down right wrong conditions. This included:
1.Some of the blue tounges and bearded dragons were infested with mites, and one bearded dragon had one eye fused together. 
2. Water dragon water bowl putrid with faecal matter, and no basking or heat provided. 
3. Dried or dirty water bowls in some snake and lizard cages. Rotten food left in food bowls and about the cages, with flies all over. 
4. Over populated lizard cages, with no evident cleaning of faecal matter in a long time. 
5. Curlew dragging one wing and wallaby with massive lump on its jaw. 
I took photos documenting these squalid conditions and the suffering some of these animals were enduring, but this list is only some of what I saw. It looked liked husbandry was attended to maybe weekly. Honestly, if the managers have little money for staff it would take them just a little effort to do the husbandry themselves. Seemed all too hard and just left them like that, and what pride can they possibly muster when a professional zookeeper walks through and sees their apathy towards animals and husbandry. Don't worry, they soon closed down and its all over!


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## gus11 (Aug 2, 2011)

CamdeJong said:


> Sean's planning to do that shortly as well, he said. He's just contacted the local team leader of QPWS for an update but no response yet.



Although no response from them, they know about it, things like this can take time to respond to. check your PM.


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## RSPCAQld (Aug 2, 2011)

*Disgusting case of neglect*

]_The RSPCA is very saddened by the pictures depicting neglected snakes at a property in Townsville. The RSPCA was notified of this matter and duely followed current protocols with the Queensland State Government and immediately sent the details of the incident to Qld Parks and Wildlife for investigation._

_As the RSPCA in Queensland only has 18 Inspectors responding to more then 13,500 cruelty complaints in Queensland it is important to ensure an appropriate response to any alleged cruelty to any animal is investigated appropriately. While the RSPCA investigates matters under the Animal Care and Protection Act, ii is the Queensland Government that maintains charter and responsibility for investigations into breaches of the Nature Conservation Act, its regulations, conservation plans and codes of practice, as well as cruelty and neglect of native animals. _

_The RSPCA as a charity organisation takes all reported incidents of cruelty and neglect seriously and that is why protocols were followed in regard to this matter. It would be irresponsible for the RSPCA not to ensure that matters like these are investigated by Government Departments that have the resources to do so. _

_The incident involving these snakes is still under investigation by Qld Parks and Wildlife rangers and the police. Any inquiries should be directed to those departments for comment. Had that response not occurred, RSPCA would have acted promptly and appropriately to investigate the complaint._


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## vampstorso (Aug 2, 2011)

I don't feel this is "alleged" cruelty...there were clear photos showing it. So there was no doubt about if it was occurring.


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## shell477 (Aug 2, 2011)

They didnt say the case was 'alleged' cruelty. You're quoting out of context. 

They meant that ANY cases of alleged cruelty are investigated. If someone reports an incident, the RSCPA cant automatically assume that because it has been reported that it IS an incident of cruelty, and until the case is investigated they cant make that decision.



> _The RSPCA is very saddened by the pictures depicting neglected snakes at a property in Townsville_



This statement clearly shows that they view the snakes as being neglected.


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## kawasakirider (Aug 2, 2011)

18 inspectors in QLD, if true it's shocking.

Also, how can we be so sure this is indeed an RSPCA representative?


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## RSPCAQld (Aug 2, 2011)

Unfortunately it is true that we only have 18 Inspectors. We would love the funding to have more, however currently that's not the case. This is an official RSPCA Qld representative, and if you would like further email or clarification, please don't hesitate to email us on [email protected] - thanks all.


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## mummabear (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank gosh these sort of people are in the minority. Those poor animals. It's also a shame that these sort of people create a bad public perception of us keepers, when most of us are dedicated to our native animals captive care.


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## BigWillieStyles (Aug 2, 2011)

pyrodarknessanny said:


> sadly if this was puppies or kittens the athourities would have seazed the animals by now and be building a crulty case.
> 
> RSPCA are a joke at times "for anmials grate and small" my butt!!!
> 
> ...



I have to agree about RSPCA. I cant believe that an organisation dedicated to the wellbeing of animals has nothing to say about reptiles. I have looked at their website before and they have no set requirements for the wellbeing of captive reptiles.

As for the Parks and Wildlife. They sound like a joke.


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## Necrotique (Aug 3, 2011)

@RSPCA - would you mind telling me why the dying kittens and queens in the mill I found haven't been rescued yet or even investigated? You know, a call back would be nice, rather than the woman I talked to saying "don't be such a pussy" as a way of resolution. Just putting it out there.


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## eitak (Aug 4, 2011)

How are things going cam? Have you had any progress?


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## SeanK (Aug 4, 2011)

I am Cam's mate that worked with him to bring these snakes some justice and dignity, its been quite an unsettling ride and has really opened my eyes to how little respect some people can have for animals, and also the inadequacies of the system set up to protect animals from people like this...

With all due respect RSPCA, though I have been contacted by phone by the Chief Inspector who has allayed my concerns somewhat, your response here seems more like a bit of PR image control than an actual resonse to the situation at hand. To clarify your comment "_The RSPCA was notified of this matter and duely followed current protocols with the Queensland State Government and immediately sent the details of the incident to Qld Parks and Wildlife for investigation.", _in fact this only occured after I sent an email with a link to this thread to your organisation on Tuesday August 2nd. Our initial contact with the RSPCA consisted a bored and unhelpful woman at the Townsville shelter telling me it was nothing to do with the RSPCA and to contact QPWS/DERM. This is after I explained to her that I had spent 30 minutes online trying to find an appropriate number or contact at DERM to call and had to insist repeatedly that she find me a number for me to call. After 5 minutes of being on hold she gave me a number, which was not even connected when I tried to call it! The woman did not take down ANY details about the incident, so there is NO WAY it could have been reported at that stage... I do understand now that there is a memorandum of understanding between QPWS and RSPCA and that wildlife queries should be dealt with by QPWS/DERM but the initial response from the Towsnville branch has left a bad taste in my mouth...

As for QPWS/DERM.....I dont have anything positive to say about my experience in dealing with them over this matter. The two officers who took our statements seemed initially to be very motivated and concerned and gave us the impression that they would be acting with haste, but whether through bureaucratic BS or too large a workload the momentum seemed to drop as soon as we walked out the door. Despite me calling them at least every week to see if there had been any action to care for the snakes, it wasnt until I sent a very blunt email to them on the 25th of July threatening to go to the minister and the media if action wasnt taken did they act at all, and even then only to enter the premises with the police and take photos... No animals were seized, no animals were fed or received veterinary care, just photos...then they shut the door and left...

The supervisor of the 2 DERM officers who dealt with this initially contacted me after this and basically gave me every justification as to why they couldnt act, stating that they had insufficient evidence (despite 2 lengthy statements and a USB stick full of more photos like those posted here), the Hendra virus outbreak (not even in FNQ!!), they couldnt identify the owner or the premises (despite the statements giving the address and name of the person, and confirmation that the bloke at the centre of this was a licensed reptile keeper), that the RSPCA should have dealt with it (see above), etc etc etc. He also said that the conditions of the snakes was 'not that bad', obviously not since Cam and I had spent over a week cleaning most of the enclosures and feeding some of the smaller more emaciated snakes. Had we not done this the scene that would have greeted DERM on their eventual arrival would have been nothing short of a horror show!!

To my knowledge the keeper hasnt yet returned from holidays, the snakes are still mostly unfed apart from the ones that Cam and I fed, and some of the larger ones are still living in their own filth and stench as was requested by officers so they could see the condition first hand... Thats 7 weeks that they would have been unattended for if not for the intervention of Cameron and I, and it had been much much longer since they were properly fed and had their enclosures cleaned. I have emailed the office of Vicky Darling, the minister for DERM about this matter along with a link to this thread. We will see if that makes any difference...

On the upside to all this I have now developed a lot more knowledge about reptile keeping and am considering getting a snake at the start of next year. They are fascinating and beautiful creatures and until this incident I had not had the opportunity to be close to or hold a snake and have gone from being a bit apprehensive about them to now thinking that they are amazing creatures that deserve a lot more respect.

As for the bloke who caused all of this.....lower than a snakes belly....

Sean


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## snakes123 (Aug 4, 2011)

Thats terrible!!
You have done a great job cleaning all of them, I'm happy that you found them when you did.
Good on you 

And sean i didn't have time to read all of your post but do you think you will get into reptiles now? Or has that just completely now?


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## nakerz_the_herp (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm going to say it; There are hardly any services for rescuing herptiles. 
RSPCA: You are a joke. You don't give a rat's about these reptiles. 
It seems that the authorites only 'care' about the animals that can make a sound in distress :/


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## CamdeJong (Aug 4, 2011)

eitak said:


> How are things going cam? Have you had any progress?



Hi Katie. We've been in contact with RSPCA and learned that it is the place of government organisations to deal with wildlife and reptile-related issues like this, which makes sense as the number of calls RSPCA would get per year ragarding cats, dogs and the like would far outweigh the number of calls for reptiles which are technically under government licencing systems anyway. Haven't heard from or seen the owner, haven't got into the place yet, but hopefully I can get around there soon, at least to check on them. I'll let you know.


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## Dan40D (Aug 4, 2011)

Cam and Sean you have done an outstanding job. Document everything (keep a diary), keep and print off all emails you have sent and recieved, if you do not get any joy from the minister go higher, send it to Anna Bligh and CC a media organisation into your email and see if get a response then. You both sound like you have the motivation to get this all the way through and get a result, and i certainly you hope that you do.

Keep us updated.


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## SeanK (Aug 4, 2011)

snakes123 said:


> Thats terrible!!
> You have done a great job cleaning all of them, I'm happy that you found them when you did.
> Good on you
> 
> And sean i didn't have time to read all of your post but do you think you will get into reptiles now? Or has that just completely now?



Hi yes Im thinking seriously of acquiring an albino Darwin or perhaps a caramel. Cam's albino Dante is the sweetest wee thing Ive ever had slither down my arm and Im now mighty taken with the idea of having my own snake.

I did consider the idea of taking in one of the hatchlings from this neglected lot, but for me it would always be a tainted reminder of this sordid episode.

And as Cam has pointed out in Queensland at least it is the responsibility of QPWS/DERM to deal with wildlife issues under a MOU with RSPCA. Dont know how the other states deal with it but maybe (forgive a newbie making suggestions) a sticky thread with all the details of who to go to in these situations could be helpful.

One of my biggest complaints to DERM was that there wasnt a clear pathway for people to take to report these matters. It took Cam and I a lot of searching, many calls and false starts before we got through to the 'right' people...


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## smeejason (Aug 4, 2011)

Good work guys to keep going through all the brick walls. Good luck chipping it away but Unfortunately DERM is a gov organisation and it is all about the "process' and never about the 'result'. i work for one so i know.
RSPCA are about the money they can bleed out of the public seeing cute fluffy animals being treated badly and not many people feel much for snakes so no dollars to be bled. They had the hide to ring and ask me to buy a raffle ticket to support them minutes after i read this thread...


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## andyscott (Aug 4, 2011)

RSPCAQld said:


> Unfortunately it is true that we only have 18 Inspectors. We would love the funding to have more, however currently that's not the case. This is an official RSPCA Qld representative, and if you would like further email or clarification, please don't hesitate to email us on [email protected] - thanks all.



I used to give the RSPCA a donation every year at tax time, this is not the 1st time I have seen the RSPCA turning a blind eye to a scaled (not cute and fury) animal.
Needless to say, my donations go elsewhere now.



> ]_The RSPCA is very saddened by the pictures depicting neglected snakes at a property in Townsville. The RSPCA was notified of this matter and duely followed current protocols with the Queensland State Government and immediately sent the details of the incident to Qld Parks and Wildlife for investigation._



It looks like your protocols are a little outdated, imo.

Cam and Sean,
Brilliant work guys, 10/10.


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## noved (Aug 4, 2011)

well done boys i to am from the ville and sit here in horror i will help physically in any way i can. idont have much else to offer but i would like to buy a dozen or so mice to help with the feeds, just tell me the size ya need or i could just give you guys the cash...


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## mike83 (Aug 5, 2011)

The owner of those snakes is just scum and does not deserve to keep any reptile or any animal at all I wish some 1 would make him live in his **** and see how he likes it, Poor snakes its nice to know you are helping out and doing what you can lets hope these snakes get the life they deserve and the scum bag owner well I wont say it on here it would have to many swear words.

Keep us updated on everything mate.


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## Chris1 (Aug 5, 2011)

makes me wonder, if in 7 weeks these terribly neglegted animals still havent been cleaned up and rehomed, (by the authorities that is, if Cam and Sean werent involved a few individuals would most likely have passed in this time) whats the point in all the time theyve wasted making cage size restrictions that will need to be adhered to to the mm? are they gonna find the time/funds/interest to seize animals in much better conditions just cos the cage sizes are an inch or 2 off or is that just another great big waste of time and tax payers money?

if u guys need food money or anything PM me ur acc deets,....its disgraceful that this situation still hasnt been resolved!!


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## pharskie (Aug 6, 2011)

yeah i agree with the Chris1, if you need any help with money or anything shoot over a pm and i will help with some sort of fundage toward food and such. i also have equipment such as bowls and eletrics i can donate to you. If you need help with housing them after some sort of health is obtained, i am willing to help with a home for them as i cant stand to hear of this kind of act. I got my two coastals from a person not giving them the proper attention and lifestyle and wont hesitate to take in another creature in need.


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## Fantazmic (Aug 6, 2011)

Hi guys

Just read the whole thread.....id be looking at getting your local member of parliament involved...especially if they are in opposition......give them all the information about how badly everything has been handlled......anything to embarrass the government in parliament will be a plus to a local member in oppositon !! and will cause the government to act because they dont like being caught out !!

also try your local council they have animal officers and i know they have health and safety as a concern...smell for example and health concerns around the faecal matter and flies etc.....its a long shot but worth a try.

My hope is with the thread growing and more and more people becoming involved you will get some action !!


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## Naja_nivea (Aug 7, 2011)

Quote "some of the larger ones are still living in their own filth and stench as was requested by officers so they could see the condition first hand... " So the RSPCA asked you to keep some of them in their filthy condition so that they can see first hand whenever they get round to having a look. I would keep a record of this conversation as the RSPCA are asking you to deliberately and knowingly neglect these animals further, i am sure you can use this in court against the RSPCA, maybe this would spur them into action. 

A while ago i saw someone feeding their pet snake to their pet cat on face book. I showed the images to the RSPCA and they said they dont really deal with reptiles and are not interested. Although they do some great work and are charitable they should not discriminate as the "A" stands for _animal_s not "a select few cute fury animals". 

Keep up the good work OP.


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## BurtonReptiles (Aug 7, 2011)

im greatful that you came to help these poor animals but hope this guy rots in hell for what he done


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## Suenstu (Aug 8, 2011)

Is the "owner" back from holidays yet? :evil:


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## Andrais (Aug 8, 2011)

RSPCA, you are a disgrace. To be honest the only people that really get the job done are the local passionate people that really want to instigate change. I have no doubt that Cam and Sean have pulled off a better job than a whole silly organisation, supposably set up to care for *ALL *creatures 'great and small' (notice how on their TV add there no reptiles but all the cute fuzzy animals that 'interest' people. I had a go at a RSPCA worker on facebook (a parent of a friend) because i put forward a case a month ago about neglected horses to the worker and nothing was done and he simply said to me that they didn't have time for larger animals like horses and it would be hard to rehome middle aged geldings as mares as by this time in life they were 'usless' did he hear it from me, i dont like the RSPCA, simply because of incidents like this, this is a sham. You spend so much time naming all the animals that come into your shelter and taking in cute fuzzy kittens cause they will sell quicker than sliced bread, yet you wont take the time to rescue and find homes for animals that dont appeal to your liking. 

It doesn't matter if you have legal stuff to do, get the animals OUT of the S&*t they are in and deal with the legal matters when the owner returns, cause i doubt u'd be able to take him to court when he is on his holiday anyways! There should be a law passed that if an animal is on the brink of death and requires immediate attention any personal available at the time should step in and take action regardless, thats my opinion


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## Sofoula88 (Aug 8, 2011)

That is disgusting! I don't know what we can do,even if we see these cases of Clear neglect,nothing ever seems to be done about it.. The authorities need to step up and start putting people in jail for **** like this..it's disgraceful and they as well as this pathetic excuse for a human being who kept these poor snakes should be ashamed


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## alrightknight (Aug 8, 2011)

Thats just heart breaking, and its horrible to see such a lack of care from the environment. Down here in SA i remeber people down the road complaining about a stench from the neighbours house and noticed lots of cats comign and going. Local authorities got involved quick smart and as far as I have heard they were prosectued for all sorts of things. Lets us know who you get in contact with, or if you go through local mps etc tell us who so why can send emails in support of this.


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## anna.jc (Aug 8, 2011)

you can't rely on the RSPCA for jack, they don't deal with 'strays', stray kittens with no mother that was too even. what do they even do it makes me so angry !!!!


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## AllThingsReptile (Aug 8, 2011)

i am not going to comment further on this thread, if i do , the things i will say will get me kicked off this forum, no word in the world is hateful enough for this person, i again refer back to the cute and fluffy syndrome in the RSPCA case..................................................i really need to calm down before i write anymore


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## KaotikJezta (Aug 9, 2011)

I used to volunteer in their head shelter in Yagoona and the things I witnessed changed any desire I had to work for them. I have little to no respect for them.


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## Octane (Aug 9, 2011)

Sounds like each organisation/department this has been reported to has left it to someone else to deal with. 
I know court matters dealing with neglect of animals do happen. You just have to get someone motivated enough to do something. 
Many years ago I had to sit in court for the day to watch the matters as part of a uni course. This guy (scumbag) got six months in the big house for throwing his young dog off the back verandah frizbie style into the pole of the clothes line and 3 other similar seperate incidents of cruelty. 
His legal aid tried their hardest to get him off. 
It also felt to me like the judge was trying to find a way to not put the guy away. 
I think the only thing that nailed the bloke was the pile of evidence from the police which amounted to quite a thick file of documents and numerous witnesses on the day at court.

Oh and the thing that made me remember this so well, almost ten years later, is that the animal welfare league had removed the dog following one of the early incidents. They gave it back for the scumbag to do it again on the grounds their vet's examination couldn't conclusively verify deliberate acts of cruelty as opposed to accidental injury. ie the dog chasing a bike and coming off second best as claimed by scumbag. 

Thanks for reading this far.
Octane


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## Kelly86 (Aug 9, 2011)

Octane, that made me vomit.....


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## Foxthor (Aug 9, 2011)

Just sent a long email to the Townsville RSPCA.
Probably wont go anywhere, but i guess the more they hear about our disgust the more they may think about doing something.


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## pharskie (Aug 9, 2011)

i compleatly agree with the people on here saying its a joke no one was willing to act on the situation ie rspca, but unlike the way it has been portrayed here they do more than any of you are even willing to accept. They raise money to give out FREE desexing vouchers for the people who arnt fortunate enough to be able to afford them. They also have to deal with the drones of morons that come down there to surrender that cute puppy they got 12 month befor hand. Think about it befor you all going to town and try to destroy the RSPCA's name. I am in no doubt that less than 1% of all animal related neglect are conserning reptiles, with this said i in no way imply that they are less valued than any other animal. The rspca in your local are may be slack and may be usless, but they are not all run this way. My girlfriend works at the rspca in orange and i can tell you the local inspector in our area would be likley to hunt this bloke down on his holiday just to drag him back by his manhood. It is this reason that i go down there on a regular basis and take the dogs out for a run, give them something to lookforward to as apose to just sitting in a cage all day. ALSO FOR ALL OF YOU TO READ TWICE SO YOU DONT FORGET>>>>>> All money that is spent on your local rspca shelter is allocated by a public committe that does not work at the shelter. In other words, in most cases, its the sad old woman down the road from you that hates everyone and puts in a noise complaint cause you fart to loud for her to sleep at 7 30pm, that decides how much money is aloud to be spent and what its to be spent on. While all this is goin on the local branch here had no washing machine to wash bedding and was forced to wash blankets by hand. So next time your asked to comment on the rspca think about it, you dont blame the woman who works at the bank because your money hasnt cleared, so dont blame an organisation who has there hands bound, tied and locked from the inside.

Also it is not the responibility of the rspca to attend to a case of neglect to wildlife, direct your anger toward Nation Parks and Wildlife or WIRES.


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## Jen (Aug 9, 2011)

Are reptiles held in private homes under license considered wildlife? Is this also the case with other native animals held as pets? 
(If they are I don't think I agree with that, and will still no longer be donating to the RSPCA when I know my money will be better donated elsewhere....)


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## KaotikJezta (Aug 9, 2011)

pharskie said:


> i compleatly agree with the people on here saying its a joke no one was willing to act on the situation ie rspca, but unlike the way it has been portrayed here they do more than any of you are even willing to accept. They raise money to give out FREE desexing vouchers for the people who arnt fortunate enough to be able to afford them. They also have to deal with the drones of morons that come down there to surrender that cute puppy they got 12 month befor hand. Think about it befor you all going to town and try to destroy the RSPCA's name. I am in no doubt that less than 1% of all animal related neglect are conserning reptiles, with this said i in no way imply that they are less valued than any other animal. The rspca in your local are may be slack and may be usless, but they are not all run this way. My girlfriend works at the rspca in orange and i can tell you the local inspector in our area would be likley to hunt this bloke down on his holiday just to drag him back by his manhood. It is this reason that i go down there on a regular basis and take the dogs out for a run, give them something to lookforward to as apose to just sitting in a cage all day. ALSO FOR ALL OF YOU TO READ TWICE SO YOU DONT FORGET>>>>>> All money that is spent on your local rspca shelter is allocated by a public committe that does not work at the shelter. In other words, in most cases, its the sad old woman down the road from you that hates everyone and puts in a noise complaint cause you fart to loud for her to sleep at 7 30pm, that decides how much money is aloud to be spent and what its to be spent on. While all this is goin on the local branch here had no washing machine to wash bedding and was forced to wash blankets by hand. So next time your asked to comment on the rspca think about it, you dont blame the woman who works at the bank because your money hasnt cleared, so dont blame an organisation who has there hands bound, tied and locked from the inside.



I am not going to go into everything here but the people that work at the Sydney shelter on a whole don't care about the animals. I am not talking about the vets or the inspectors, I am talking about the staff who are generally untrained and see it as just a job. Two examples I will give, which are not even close to the worst of it: they had a woman that ran a section for dogs that supposedly couldn't be rehomed but were not destroyed. She got to choose which dogs went to this section. She lived in a unit so could not have a dog. So, she chose all the cute fluffy ones she could baby and pretend were hers. Sounds fine, except she only worked three days a week, these dogs had to live in cages seven days a week because she was too selfish to let them be released to the public for sale. This is about 30 odd perfectly healthy, loving dogs living there lives out in a prison. The other example is the section for dogs too vicious to be rehomed that they kept as guard dogs. No-one could go near these dogs as they were just too vicious. They lived there days out in cages, when their cages were cleaned out it was done with a high pressure hose while the dogs were still in them. They were released at night to guard the premises, then had to be 'recaught' the next morning and back to the cages. Could be just me, but I don't think either of these are very good examples of good animal welfare practices. I am sure there are a lot of good RSPCA outlets around as they are all pretty self sufficient depending on area but that shelter is not one of them.


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## bigi (Aug 9, 2011)

I can understand the politics in it all and the correct protocol and direction you must take to get action.
Its a real shame people are not educated or trained in putting someone in the right direction for corrective action
imagine all the time you could have saved by being transfered to the correct government department.
I would take it further, go above their heads, ruffle some more feathers
but hey thats me, i dont care if i upset people along the way if i know it is right and proper
pat yourselves on the back and dont give up
good luck


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## pharskie (Aug 9, 2011)

Without a doubt a huge pat on the back. It really looks like a huge task to try and provide for all of those wonderful creatures after so much neglect. Its just i got the vibe from this forum that alot of people have had bad experiences with the rspca, that said no one ever goes out of there way to inform the public when they got there dogs or cats desexed or had there dogs coat cut for summer for next to nothing. (and by nothing im talkin maybe $20.) It needs to be know know that i may not have out helped at rspca shelters around the country, but the one here where i have, i have to say does an outstanding job for the short leash they are given. Just out of intrest was WIRES contacted about this matter?


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## Renenet (Aug 9, 2011)

This is in Townsville. I could be wrong but I don't think WIRES is in Queensland, just NSW.


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## Chris (Aug 10, 2011)

Very sad thread.


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## wokka (Aug 10, 2011)

Another very sad example of beaurocracy getting in the way of action where it is needed. I am sure the departments concerned have budgets of millions for their staff of thousands, but with all the shuffling of paper how much is actually helping animals ?


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## starr9 (Aug 10, 2011)

Im lost for words!! Who could do this to any animal! Id like to say im shocked that the RSPCA did not help but im not. Iv reported horses and cattle etc to them over the years that were in such shocking states and they did nothing. They did tell me that the costs were to high for them to charge ppl to the full extent they should of bn so they walked away with a $250 fine..... Under staffed, underfunded and lack of support from the law was the sentence told to me over and over again by them. Better laws need to be in place and acted on to stop this! You should put this on facebook and get the word out that this is not cool! we here all the time about puppy farms etc make more ppl see what is going on!! 

Please let us know what happens!! I wish I could help in some way! Can we email/call someone somewhere to help you out?!?!! Any ideas anyone?!?!?!


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## Dipcdame (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm lost for words ...... and were I to use any that have come to mind in the process of seeing and reading all of this thread, I would most definitely be thrown right out of the Forum permanently. I would, however, love to see the sad pathetic excuse of an owner treated in the same manner, and forced to live in the same conditions.


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## albhp (Aug 12, 2011)

OMG what else can you say im a very passionate person when it comes to reptiles i would live and die for my herps . Im at present sitting her reading and wiping tears from my eyes im disgusted that any human could let any reptile live in such poor condition i applaud you cam and sean for the help you guys are trying to give to these poor un cared for snakes this honestly breaks my heart .Its even more heart wrenching to think that those whos job it is to save any animals from this sort of treatment just dont seem to care i know they would have a massive amount of work to do but you think that the reptiles in the pics would need help now not when you can get around to it .Im honestly heart broken at the thought of these snakes in that awful place just waiting to die cause thats what it comes down to . I dont know what to do or how to help being all the way down here in vic i feel a great saddness for these reptiles cause i just know that eventully these snakes that are just clinging to life will die and that is as disgusting as the manner in which these poor snakes live now cam an sean i know you have busy lives but please try and keep us updated good or bad news .To the low life that has created this problem what could i say apart from burn in hell you piece of human filth if there was any justice in the world i would one day run into this low life and his life would be done i would show the same contempt for you that you have shown for these snakes you have chosen to entrap there is no way i could say keep cause you dont keep them keep = caring and loving and giving them what they need you fail on every level .I hope cam and sean can save these poor guys from the hell they are enduring and they can have some remnents of a good life .
GOOD LUCK GUYS 

cheers al


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## Fantazmic (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi guys

just thinking of you here in freezing Melbourne and wondering if anyone in authority has done anything to help you yet ??

Regards

Elizabeth


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## WomaPythons (Aug 14, 2011)

im sure cam will update you guys soon but parks have let him keep all the reptiles


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## dragonlover1 (Aug 14, 2011)

This is disgusting how could any supposed reptile lover treat animals this way


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## damian83 (Aug 14, 2011)

Tahlia said:


> That's absolutely disgusting. I feel so sorry for those animals, I don't understand why someone would keep snakes that way. I hope that guy gets what's coming to him! Good on you for doing something about this, you no doubt saved the lives of these snakes.



i agree with you tahlia,
maybe they can share them out to us on aps when there all well (and clean) ....


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## CamdeJong (Aug 15, 2011)

*UPDATE*

Hey everyone, I have nothing but disheartening news.

I wrote up a page or more the other day and tried to save it to the uni computer to finish after class, and lost the whole thing, so I'll keep it brief this time. If I can.

The owner of the snakes returned about a week ago and was immediately visited by QPWS, the Police Officers who are already involved and and vet with wildlife experience. It's now been about 7 weeks since we first contacted Parks and the owner was away for just over 7 weeks. The vet apparently gave all the snakes a thorough examination, and proceeded to give them a clean bill of health, declaring that they were "slightly underweight, and some of the enclosures a bit dirty, but otherwise ok." When I heard this I almost had a meltdown. First of all, the snakes I fed I only fed enough to be kept alive, and they would've barely put any weight on, and secondly we cleaned nearly all of the enclosures and tubs AT THE DIRECTION OF PARKS OFFICERS and with their word that it would not affect the outcome of the case as I'd provided them with exhaustive and detailed photo evidence which wasn't even shown to the funking vet!!! We even left a few enclosures dirty so they could see for themselves because they told me that they'd get around to see them and sort them out in what turned out to be a VERY LONG few days (closer to 4 weeks). Even with this in consideration I can't see how the vet made that decision. The 6 hatchlings should be at least 6 or 7 months old based on Jungle hatch times and are no more than 15g and 30cm long (which leads me to wonder, have they EVER been fed?) The larger snakes are emaciated - look at the smaller one in the first photo - and a lot of them are weak, not striking accurately and not gripping my hand at all. I might post some more pics soon, especially of the hatchies.

We spoke to QPWS' head of wildlife division and were even more disappointed. Between accusing us of making assumptions about their actions (which we later found to be true) and trying vigorously to defend Parks, we really got no useful information or reaction from him. He even went so far as to question why Sean didn't dob the owner in a few months ago when he first saw the snakes (Sean previously had no experience with snakes and didn't know how dire the situation was). That in itself was the worst part to us because Sean had no responsibility at that point, while they, the relevant authority, sat on this thing for WEEKS and only called the police to organise a raid when we send an email higher up. He told us that they'd called the police straight after we gave statements, but we asked the Police Officer involved and he said they went in the day after being called, a month or so after we acted. He accused Sean of having a vendetta against Parks and of making "conspiracy theories" and tried at every corner to take away our resolve at getting some good out of this case. 

Parks officers told us that they've done everything as quickly as possible, but all evidence points otherwise. And basically all that's come out of this entire story is this: The owner has come home to clean, fed snakes, has been told by a vet that he's doing a good job, and Sean and I will be portrayed as the crazies who made a mountain out of a molehill while the relevant authority assures a minister that it's all sorted. The owner gets to keep all of the animals, including the ones that I believe are wild-caught, and may eventually be slapped on the wrist for not having left them in the care of someone while they were away.

We're feeling pretty beaten at this point.

I'm sorry I don't have better news,

Cam


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## phantomreptiles (Aug 15, 2011)

I am so sorry cam, I hope karma gets this person!!!!!!! I am so sick of hearing and seeing crap like this :-( it makes people think why bother....as nothing is every bloody done! I have reported several people and nothing was ever done. According to qld law I can keep my animals in filth, leave my dog on a chain24/7 as long as I throw food to her, and as cam has just proven leave my reptiles alone for 7 weeks, hmm sure it would be a different story if it was a human baby.....


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## Dan40D (Aug 15, 2011)

Really sucks Cam, agreed that i hope karma catches up to him.


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## Chris1 (Aug 15, 2011)

that really sucks, you guys put in such a huge effort,...just to get kicked in the nuts,... 

what a crappy outcome.

im pretty sure the snakes at least would appreciate ur efforts,...(as do most of us on this forum)


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## spyder6052 (Aug 15, 2011)

that is a discusting response from parks and wildlife, i hope they read this thread and i really hope they feel ashamed at their actions or inactions to be exact...


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## hugsta (Aug 15, 2011)

For future reference, take the animals and then tell the owner they all died, how they died is up to your imagination, after all 7 weeks is a long time.


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## Renenet (Aug 15, 2011)

That's so disappointing, especially after all your efforts. Grrrrrrrrr!


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## Black.Rabbit (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh man, I feel sick for you!! I can only imagine how angry, fed up and frustrated you are. I can't believe how terribly everything has been handled by the authorities who were meant to act on the Animals behalf. I am utterly disgusted, it's so unfair for you and the 'owner' can just laugh it of, meanwhile you've spent your time and money caring for these animals... I'd be planning something if I were you... so that the 'owner' no longer has the snakes... I won't write here what I would be doing, I'm sure you can use your imagination.

I wish there was something else that could be done! Bloody sucks big time!


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## Kelly86 (Aug 15, 2011)

wow, i was so disgusted and disturbed by this when you first posted this thread. now im even more disgusted....
it is clearly animal cruelty and i cant believe that scumbag is getting away with it. its not fair. we are all proud of you two guys for all the hard work you's have put into this, you guys rock. im sorry it didnt turn out the way we all had hoped maybe its time to bring it to the media...


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## hustler975 (Aug 16, 2011)

*release name and address*

*maybe its time too release the name and address of the perpitrater , i know at least 20 of us local townsville herp lads that would love to be behind some vigilanty justice , sometimes you gota take things into your own hands especially when the pathetic excuse for "authorities" would rather be out revenue raising than helping the community.:evil::evil::evil:*


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## Jen (Aug 16, 2011)

Well, lets tie this in with the facebook thread and do some good, let everyone know what a crap job the RSPCA and the other organisations involved have done, ok, it's grassroots, but every little bit helps.


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## bigi (Aug 17, 2011)

Well done at least you have helped those poor critters,
BAD, BAD, BAD officials, wake up to yourselves, the pictures and lack of supervision on the animals by the owner is pure neglect, you should be ashamed
take it further mate, because these officials have a deep rot in the ranks


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## Flanders199 (Aug 17, 2011)

It'd be too bad if the snakes just....disappeared.


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## gosia (Aug 17, 2011)

Good on you Cam! And I am soooo angry!! Why not contact the local paper or tv station and see how quickly something can be done about it! And I do agree with Flanders199 - that would be too bad if they did disappeared!!! See how quickly authorities would get there!!! 
Good luck with it all


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 17, 2011)

I have to wonder whether or not making accusations to the DEC that some of the animals are wild caught isn’t a bit over the top without anything to back this accusation up. Looking at the pics posted I can't see any critter that is on deaths door and in fact I find far worse conditioned critters in the wild at times. Besides dirty cages and some relatively thin specimens, I think the vet probably made a fair call.
Today I was contacted by this chap as he was looking at contacts to sell off his entire collection and hence I read this thread.
I asked this fellow why he fed his critters before going on holiday and he admitted it was a stupid mistake.
I asked him had he asked anyone to check on his collection while he was away and he admitted he didn't but foolishly thought that they would be okay as long as he provided water but no heat, thinking that they would sort of hibernate ( foolish considering he claimed to have fed them ). It sounds like this chap is highly upset and embarrassed over this but what I think is disturbing, is he mentions the constant hate e-mails and nasty texts constantly received by a few members here.
I suggested he mans up and replies to this thread, cop the criticism, explain himself and learn from this situation. I will point out that I actually know of this chap ( a friend of a friend of mine from Innisfail )but I didn't know about this incident with him until he rang us today. 
It also sounds like the DEC were or are, considering charges but remember they will only proceed if their legal section thinks that there is any real chance of conviction. That would be difficult considering they would need a negative report from the vet I would think. The other thing is that the QLD wildlife act only allows for specific charges from which breach have to have occurred under such act. It could be that there isn't anything that neatly covers temporary dirty cages.
Personally I don’t think this chap would ever intentionally set out to cause his animals harm and in the past I believed he was a very passionate keeper so I am somewhat surprised that he has let this incident happen. One thing clear is it is certainly time for this chap to give up keeping I think. Becoming overwhelmed is poor excuse.


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## spyder6052 (Aug 17, 2011)

he should give cam and sean pick of the lot for free

edit: spelling


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 17, 2011)

Reading the first post again, I wonder how he could not ensure ventilation or paper in the bottom of the enclosures. Thats getting very silly.


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## Renenet (Aug 17, 2011)

Interesting to hear the other side, PilbaraPythons. Even though I feel so sad for these pythons, I can't say I'm impressed to hear that their keeper is being harassed. The passion people obviously feel would be better directed - and more positively spent - urging authorities to improve reptilian rights.


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## Black.Rabbit (Aug 17, 2011)

46 pythons kept in conditions like that is beyond silly...


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## Renenet (Aug 17, 2011)

equinny said:


> 46 pythons kept in conditions like that is beyond silly...



It's an awful lot of pythons for one keeper, for sure. I'm probably stating the obvious but it's a good bet that's where the problem began.


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## misstj (Aug 18, 2011)

im in townsville as well...although im new to snake keeping id love to give you a hand if you needed it...Good on you for standing up for those that cannot speak. I had tears looking at these pics...no animal ever deserves to be treated this way:evil:


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## sagara_cp_2006 (Aug 18, 2011)

That is pathetic. If you can't look after them properly you shouldn't have them at all. I would love to have a jungle python, however I have enough sense to know that I can't afford to care for one at the moment. It is good to see someone cares and is willing to alert authorities, even if slow to react to situation.


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## Kelly86 (Aug 18, 2011)

if this guy is willing to give up these beautiful creatures we should all back off and let him do the right thing. i agree he should come on here, but i understand why he wouldnt aswell. i know alot of you guys would gladly take one or more of these fellers off his hands, i know i would if i lived closer. i think he is going to have a hard time getting rid of them all so maybe we should back off and stop the bullying so he can do it properly. i dont agree at all with how he kept them and it is so sad that it has taken something like this to make him realise he was in the wrong, but maybe its time to stop the anger and try to help him find these snakes new owners, if he is trying to do the right thing and find them new homes


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 18, 2011)

He would be best advised to front up here and see if he can't find a few willing customers despite the obvious ear bashing he will surely recieve.
There has been a few very well known reptile keepers that are members on this site that have in the past been completely over whelmed with a collection too big for current personal issues e.g depression, marriage break ups, loss of job, sickness etc.
I know it doesn't mean these things are any real excuse for poor husbandry ( as they could have made a plea for help ) but it may give a few an idea of how people can come un stuck.


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## alrightknight (Aug 18, 2011)

I like your unbiased opinion on this pilbara. At first I was angry, somehwat disgusted, but after reading your post, the book "to kill a mockingbird" came to mind, which teaches a great lesson in putting yourself in someone elses shoes. He obivoulsy had no intention on making profits from his collection, and generally I see reptile keeping as a hobby that only passionate people get into. His passion obviously got out of control, his flare for it died and he in consequence couldn't provide the optimum care they deserved. No one would keep animals in such poor condition unless they were in it purley for money not because they care for the animals, or they are just plain sick in the head (which I didnt see any abused animals, some care, even if it was minimum, had been provided). He made a lot of wrong desicions which he will have to live with now, and the least we could do is cut him some slack and help to give these animals a better lifestyle.


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## Fantazmic (Aug 19, 2011)

Everyone answers to someone. it might be useful Cam to just document what has happened....from the date you first found the collection through to the advice you did and did receive and the delay in reactions of authorities right down to the squirming that occurred at the end.

Obviously we would all have liked 'the book' thrown at the owner...but as previously said that may not have been possible....what is disappointing is that it seems nobody was clear about procedures and what was and wasnt possible and it caused a whole lot of confusion inconvenience and misconception

writing can be very cathartic....and if you send this letter through to the relevant minister the departments will have to respond and they will have to give you a formal response...which in the very least will make them all have to examine themselves and their responses and come up with proof they didnt do what you have calimed......and may lead to SOMETHING

most importantly at the end of the letter using bullet points state what you want

something like

1. and examination of current protocols regarding responsibility of the various animal authorities
2. an assurance that appropriate steps will be taken to educate animal officers so that correct information is given in the first instance particularly around what will and will not effect prosecution
3. a review of prosecutuon laws for animal cruelty to wildlife

????


Just some thoughts.

although you might get another formal reply saying nothing at least you will have a formal closure to it all and a sense that they have had to make a formal response.


I am so sorry that you feel you have been given the run around

and most of all i am sorry for the animals

Elizabeth

I guess the learning curve we have all travelled with you if ever any of us are in this situation whatever the animal is document everything with photographs and when you start to seal with authorities keep a diary with dates times and the names and phone numbers of every person you have spoken to...better still an email trail...where they have to respond in writing........this way if it goes pear shaped you have them with evidence that they have not advised/behaved correctly......VERY FRUSTRATING


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## SeanK (Aug 22, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> I have to wonder whether or not making accusations to the DEC that some of the animals are wild caught isn’t a bit over the top without anything to back this accusation up. Looking at the pics posted I can't see any critter that is on deaths door and in fact I find far worse conditioned critters in the wild at times. Besides dirty cages and some relatively thin specimens, I think the vet probably made a fair call.
> Today I was contacted by this chap as he was looking at contacts to sell off his entire collection and hence I read this thread.
> I asked this fellow why he fed his critters before going on holiday and he admitted it was a stupid mistake.
> I asked him had he asked anyone to check on his collection while he was away and he admitted he didn't but foolishly thought that they would be okay as long as he provided water but no heat, thinking that they would sort of hibernate ( foolish considering he claimed to have fed them ). It sounds like this chap is highly upset and embarrassed over this but what I think is disturbing, is he mentions the constant hate e-mails and nasty texts constantly received by a few members here.
> ...



OK I have just a few words to say in response to this, then for me thats it.

Your first line is itself a bit over the top, I know that this person has taken snakes from the wild, he has told me hinself AND I have witnessed one instance where he had a snake bagged up in the car that he was taking out to re-release, possibly to spread diseases to wild populations from that cesspit.

Secondly you have only seen a handful of pictures, there are many many more and none of them give a true representation of seeing them first hand. The snakes were living in total filth and were severely underfed, the hatchlings were born in December and are still no larger than when they came out of the egg. I have seen a similiar aged snake that is 5 times their size. And besides the conditions of wild animals are irrelevant to this situation. Nothing more needs to be said on that obvious point. The vet had seen the snakes only after they had been cleaned and fed, she did not see them in the conditions that we saw them in. The vet told me that had she seen them in those conditions she would have ordered them to be removed immediately, but sadly she was constrained by only being able to report on what she saw first hand.

I dont believe this fellow fed these snakes before he went away. They were skinny as all frik and since we saw them only days after he left them and they DID NOT produce any scats in that time, and all the scats were very old and dry. The conditions they were kept in were unclean over a VERY long time, and in the time I have known him (since the start of this year) I know that he only fed the snakes ONCE!

In response his claims to have received hate mail from members here, since he hasnt been named and noone would know his email or phone number unless they were his friend (which I am embarrassed to admit I once was) I think thats dubious to say the least. I sent him a text a couple of days before he returned advising him of the action that I took in reporting him, to which he never replied, I called him a week later to speak with him about this and he insisted that he kept his snakes properly and saw no harm in what he had done before hanging up on me, and I finally sent him an email telling how I felt about him and his actions and included a link to this page so he could see that many other people considered his snake keeping appalling and cruel. Like I said nowhere has he been identified by Cameron or myself so I think this campaign of hatemail is imaginary and probably a diversion.

As for selling his collection, considering that he IS facing charges which could result in having his entire collection confiscated, I have to wonder about his motives for selling them now and whether or not there is an effort to recoup on an investment. From my discussions with the police officer involved the charges relate to failing to make provisions for animals under his care in his absence, not to 'temporary dirty cages' (besides which the word 'temporary' is redundant - this mess was long term!). The only thing that has saved him from prosecution under more serious cruelty charges is the farcical and incompetant handling of this case by Qld parks and wildlife, not to mention Camerons and my efforts to care for these snakes in his abscence. He owes us a debt of gratitude, but I doubt he has the insight to realise this.

The only good thing is that he does seem contrite for his actions and has finally realised (mostly due to the responses on here) that he cared for these animals poorly, and that the snakes may be rehomed to someone who will care for them properly. He claims to have been 'overwhelmed' and that this led to him loseing control of his husbandry, but it seems to me that he has always kept animals in that state and saw no harm in it and thought it was perfectly acceptable. Hopefully now he has realised the error of his ways he will never again subject any animal to that sort of treatment again, or so help me I will hunt him down.....

Enuff said!

Sean


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## DaNReD (Aug 22, 2011)

If the place happened to be near to me i would have no hesitation to...lets say 'liberate' these animals.


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## SeanK (Aug 22, 2011)

Oh and thanks to everyones support and to those who have offered help and assistance. Its much appreciated but unnecessary but I hope that people please direct their anger towards Queensland Parks and Wildlife and to their minister Vicki Darling. P&W seem to have squirmed their way out of this but if enough pressure is put on the government to tighten process and accountability then maybe we have made some headway...

Minister for Environment - Queensland Government Executive Directory

Click on the above link for the ministers contact details.

Thanks

Sean


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 22, 2011)

Sean don’t you think that making accusations to the DEC that this chaps collection is in part is made up of illegally collected specimens because he once told you he had collected from the wild is taking a lot for granted? 
I can only report what has been said to me and he tells me they are all captive bred.
I have of course no way of verifying anything ( nor the interest really ) therefore have simply accepted what he has told me on face value. If he hasn't been honest to me then I think he deserves what comes to him.
I did ask him to e-mail examples of the hate mail and so far he has failed to do so. 
The relevance of the wild specimens’ condition comparison I would have thought was self explanatory.
A skinny snake does not necessarily mean it is close to death which is probably why the vet could not claim otherwise. You claim you fed the snakes and that why the vet viewed them in better health?
I can’t see the conditioning being that quick in such a small time frame, aren’t you talking a couple of weeks between feeding and a veterinary inspection? 
Don’t get me wrong here, you and your mates did what was absolutely needed but I wonder whether
emotions haven’t over taken perspective?


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## sher_khan13 (Aug 22, 2011)

maybe some sort of APS petition or somethign like that? lets casue as much of a ruckus as we can about this. so bs


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## SeanK (Aug 22, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Sean don’t you think that making accusations to the DEC that this chaps collection is in part is made up of illegally collected specimens because he once told you he had collected from the wild is taking a lot for granted?
> I can only report what has been said to me and he tells me they are all captive bred.
> I have of course no way of verifying anything ( nor the interest really ) therefore have simply accepted what he has told me on face value. If he hasn't been honest to me then I think he deserves what comes to him.
> I did ask him to e-mail examples of the hate mail and so far he has failed to do so.
> ...



Actually mate the 'accusations' made to DERM were more in the way of suspicions, its up to DERM and the authorities to prove whether or not those suspicions are correct or not, something that they will not likely do considering how little effort they have put into this so far! We had suspicions based on a number of factors which we shared with the officers taking our statements. Nothing wrong in that even if they were proven to have been captive bred. Taking snakes from the wild is illegal and irresponsible, he told me that he did it without any hesitation so do you really think its out of the realms of possibility that some of the large ordinary coastals stacked in tubs were not captive bred???

"The relevance of the wild specimens’ condition comparison I would have thought was self explanatory" Really? No its not and its totally irrelevant. A snake in poor condition in the wild has no bearing to a snake in captivity that is being kept in unholy conditions. Lets not venture any further into that one....

And the time frame between us feeding the snakes and the vets inspection was more than a couploe of weeks, it was over a month probably more like 5-6 weeks.

And yes I am emotional, I care for animals and I make no apologies for it. If I was cold and indifferent I would be too much like this bloke to give a stuff!


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 22, 2011)

Sean
What was the time period between the time this chap went away and the time that you and your mates saw these critters for the first time?


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## spyder6052 (Aug 22, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Sean
> What was the time period between the time this chap went away and the time that you and your mates saw these critters for the first time?






SeanK said:


> I dont believe this fellow fed these snakes before he went away. *They were skinny as all frik and since we saw them only days after he left them and they DID NOT produce any scats in that time*, and all the scats were very old and dry. The conditions they were kept in were unclean over a VERY long time, and in the time I have known him (since the start of this year) I know that he only fed the snakes ONCE!
> 
> Sean



quoted from seans reply on the last page


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## feathergrass (Aug 22, 2011)

wont the proof or where the snakes came from be in the log book?, i was under the impression that ANY reptile aquired had to be logged complete with info on where when who how it was aquired ...but personally as long as the person has the snakes removed into care suitable for them and he has his licence removed andnot allowed i hope this ends soon so everyone can take a step back and clam down and be the nice ladies and gents we sometimes hide


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## pharskie (Aug 22, 2011)

If your mate really wanted to make this right, he would front up with pictures of the snakes now in better health. Also with 45+ jungles he should post on here so the conserned people here can help find responsible owners. This 'chap' is as full of hot air as the terrible authorities that claim to police these kinds of neglect.


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## Megathumb (Aug 23, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> He would be best advised to front up here and see if he can't find a few willing customers despite the obvious ear bashing he will surely recieve.
> There has been a few very well known reptile keepers that are members on this site that have in the past been completely over whelmed with a collection too big for current personal issues e.g depression, marriage break ups, loss of job, sickness etc.
> I know it doesn't mean these things are any real excuse for poor husbandry ( as they could have made a plea for help ) but it may give a few an idea of how people can come un stuck.


Fair enough, but he went on* HOLIDAYS*!! He wasnt sick, or depressed or going through a break up. That is not an acceptable excuse.


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## SeanK (Aug 23, 2011)

Well a brief update, but I dare say Cam will have more to say on this...

The guy seems to have left town yesterday and we have no idea where he has gone. Cam went and visited him yesterday morning to pick up the money he owes him and to have a look at the snakes. He still had the snakes on the premises (in the same unclean enclosures) but claims to have sold them all in one lot, except for some of the larger coastals and wouldnt agree to letting Cam have a pick of any of the snakes. He also claimed not to have any cash on him when Cam visited in the morning but agreed to have it ready for him in the afternoon and made an agreement for Cam to come around after uni. When Cam returned the bloke had cleared out, the house was empty no sign of the snakes or the money he owes Cam...

So that really just confirms what a gutless and worthless individual this person is, I wouldnt trust a word he says to anyone. I wonder if the Qld police or parks and Wildlife have any idea about this latest development, I might have to make a couple of calls.

I hope Mother Karma has a surprise in store for him...


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## KaotikJezta (Aug 23, 2011)

Well I hope he did sell the snakes and he hasn't let them go or worse.


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## Chris1 (Aug 23, 2011)

well, didnt think my opinion of this guy could get any lower, but it has,...

lower than a snakes belly,....


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## herpkeeper (Aug 23, 2011)

Just so every body knows - I have PERSONALLY found GOOD homes for ALL of these animals in question ! The person in question no longer keeps animals and probably will never keep reptiles again. There is a case still pending against him, he know's he has f#*^_d up and he is going to face the music ! I am not happy about what has happened as some of those animals where animals that I have bred myself, that's why I have intervened ! BUT I can personally assure everyone concerned about the welfare of these animals, they now are in the care of very dedicated & experienced keepers !

cheers
Mark

Colin, this thread should be closed mate...


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## Renenet (Aug 23, 2011)

herpkeeper said:


> I can personally assure everyone concerned about the welfare of these animals, they now are in the care of very dedicated &amp; experienced keepers



That's good to know.


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## pharskie (Aug 23, 2011)

thats great to hear but why was he such a douch bag and skip on the money he owed and even though he was bailing still couldnt pass along one of the many he had to a bloke who obviously cared about them.


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## herpkeeper (Aug 23, 2011)

pharskie, I don't know anything about this guy owing anybody anything ? It is not my concern & I will not get involved as it has nothing to do with me. The welfare of the animals on the other hand was paramount, that's why I intervened... and that is all I have to say about it.

cheers
Mark


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## SeanK (Aug 24, 2011)

herpkeeper said:


> Just so every body knows - I have PERSONALLY found GOOD homes for ALL of these animals in question ! The person in question no longer keeps animals and probably will never keep reptiles again. There is a case still pending against him, he know's he has f#*^_d up and he is going to face the music ! I am not happy about what has happened as some of those animals where animals that I have bred myself, that's why I have intervened ! BUT I can personally assure everyone concerned about the welfare of these animals, they now are in the care of very dedicated & experienced keepers !
> 
> cheers
> Mark
> ...



Mark thanks for that info.

All we wanted was for these snakes to be cared for, even though it took a lot of effort and frustration along the way the only outcome we ever really hoped for was for these snakes to live in good conditions. Thats happened now it seems, Im satisfied with that.

Thanks to everyone who took an interest in the snakes welfare and to the people who intervened and helped rehome the snakes, its much appreciated.

Sean

Just a final update, the fellow concerned has now finalised his debt and thanked Cam and I for our intervention. The snakes are in a good home.

The matter is now concluded.

Thanks

Sean


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## RedEyeGirl (Aug 25, 2011)

I find the RSPCA to be hypocrits......."for all creatures great and small"..............pffft yeah right


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## solar 17 (Aug 28, 2011)

These reptiles are now housed in Brisbane and being fed and cared for with one in particular requiring some extra treatment but should make a full recovery.
.............solar 17 (Baden)...ps not at my place


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## Bluetonguesblack (Aug 28, 2011)

Good work buddy !!


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## Poggle (Aug 28, 2011)

Glad to see they are being looked after better. Was a shame to see them like that.


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## Delicious_Psyko (Aug 31, 2011)

:shock: my god those poor things! 

:evil: how unfair on them to treat them so badly... as someone currently doing research and on my way to owning my first snake i can't see how that person thought they were looking after them? if they were thinking at all! glad to hear that they are now being cared for and looked after  thanks to the person who shared the story. makes me think very carefully about any future ownership. personally, no matter what the animal i believe they should be housed comfortably and looked after like any member of the family. they too need to be warm, fed, and clean too! all good things for me to keep in mind, and to serve as a warning.

thanks again


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## bellbird (Aug 31, 2011)

I have no words.....just wanted to cry.... if it was me finding those animals i wouldnt have been able to help myself. I would have staged a break in and taken them home.


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## Dan40D (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for the update, great outcome in the end, only better thing now would be a prosecution.


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## captainamazin (Sep 4, 2011)

Hi my sister lives in townsville, let me know if you need a hand or equipment or anything. This guy is a creep!


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## SeanK (Mar 28, 2012)

An update on this cruelty case;

Jake Broomhall pleaded guilty to 3 charges on Monday 26th March 2012 at the Townsville Magistrates Court. The 3 charges relate to animal neglect and failing to keep records. Mr Broomhall was fined a measly $1500 but has been banned from ever keeping wildlife again for life, so for me thats the justice here.

Mr Broomhall initially pleaded Not Guilty but changed his mind at the last moment when police prosecutions told him if he was convicted they would seek costs associated with flying witnesses in from around the country, around $10k, so sadly the guilty plea isnt a reflection that he has finally acknowledged his wrongdoing.

I also want to thank Cam for all his efforts here and also Seargent Mark Hogenelst of the Charters Towers Stock and Rural Crime Investigation Squad, without Mark's efforts this case would not have ever got to court as Parks really didnt give a toss about this case and in fact the judge directed a lot of criticism of them in his sentencing remarks...

Just shows you need to persevere sometimes to get things done. Was a hard slog for us but I dont regret it one bit!

Thanks

Sean


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## Renenet (Mar 28, 2012)

As good an outcome as could be expected, I suppose. Good on you and Cam for looking after the critters and sticking it out. 

Where are the snakes now? I seem to remember they were given to someone to look after, but did they ever move on from here?


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## CamdeJong (Mar 28, 2012)

I'll back up what Sean said there, Mark Hogenelst has been in regular contact with us informing us of his progress - this outcome is thanks to him. Perhaps Parks and Wildlife will take these sorts of cases more seriously from now on.



Renenet said:


> As good an outcome as could be expected, I suppose. Good on you and Cam for looking after the critters and sticking it out.
> 
> Where are the snakes now? I seem to remember they were given to someone to look after, but did they ever move on from here?



Thanks Renenet. We were never told what happened to them except some word on here that they went to Brisbane, would like to know that they're all good.


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## Renenet (Mar 28, 2012)

CamdeJong said:


> I'll back up what Sean said there, Mark Hogenelst has been in regular contact with us informing us of his progress - this outcome is thanks to him. Perhaps Parks and Wildlife will take these sorts of cases more seriously from now on.



Let's hope so.



CamdeJong said:


> We were never told what happened to them except some word on here that they went to Brisbane, would like to know that they're all good.



Hopefully someone will know. It would be nice to know there was a happy ending for the animals.


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## Venomous_RBB (Mar 29, 2012)

That is so sad... I have wanted a snake my whole life(now nearly 20, I finally have one <3) and to see someone abuse them like this... it's really horrible.
I have just aquired my first snake and out of all my animals, she is the easiest to care for. I am baffled of how that person could of kept their pets like that???

Glad to hear they are now being taken care of but still... I really wish that there were harsher penalties for abusing animals...


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## cma_369 (Mar 29, 2012)

if they were exotics imagine how quickly police, rspca and media would respond.......
Sickening!!!
I will use this as a reason not to donate next time someone from rspca bugs me
REPTILES MATTER!!!!!!!


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## miss_mosher (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh my god... That is disgusting. The poor things. But good on you for doing your best, like you said it shouldn't be your responsibility in the first place! I currently only have a few myself and thats the financial and time limit for me at the moment, because between my dog and all the reptiles, I still have time to individually care for and handle them every day. I think some people become obsessed and lose control...

A similar thing happened to me but it was a lady around the corner who was hoarding cats and dogs. I only found out the extent of the problem myself when one of her dogs was hit by a car and I could hear it yelping so I investigated to find that her house had an unbelievable amount of cats, dogs, kittens, poo, urine stains and not to mention the scattered, rotted food, fleas and stench! Then she told me when I persisted on taking the dog to an after hours vet that she'd never seen one in her life! When I got home my family had to lock my dog in a room from me while I undressed outside, washed my clothes three times over, disinfected the car and showered. Yuk, yuk, yuk!


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## Heelssss (Mar 29, 2012)

Hopefully the animals are living a great life now!


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## Python-Lover4lyf (Mar 30, 2012)

I have never felt so angered and disgusted until reading this story :x. It's a gift to have ANY type of snake no matter what temperament and it's a disgrace to the world of herps to have someone neglect and take advantage of those amazing animals. If you can't even care for one properly why the h*** would you have over 40. That digraceful creep should be punished the way they were for who knows how long! The only thing that puts me at peace is that they are now being taken care of (PROPERLY) and those that were wild released after being attended to. Sorry for they outburst 

*the outburst*


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## Morgana (Mar 30, 2012)

This incident has certainly fired people up, as it should. Please don't think however, that it's only reptiles that receive the cold shoulder from the authorities. I own both snakes and furry critters, and in my time as a horse owner I have had the eye-opening experience of assisting in the rescue of neglected and abused horses. Often reduced to tears, my daughter and I would help care for the rescued animals whilst the relevant 'authorities' worked on the cases. IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, THE OWNERS WERE GIVEN A SMALL FINE, A LECTURE BY THE RSPCA, AND THE ANIMALS WERE RETURNED TO THEIR "CARE" !!! After much digging and worming around, I encountered an equally frustrated RSPCA officer who told me confidentially that horses were hardly ever seized permanently because the RSPCA doesn't have the room to paddock them. That's right, the morons who are supposed to be defending the helpless creatures of this world can't work out a solution to this 'insurmountable' problem. How about paying some farmer a modest fee to agist them until they are rehomed so it saves him slashing his fields? Hard, isn't it?
I would say that snakes represent the 'unsavoury' to some of the fluff and feathers volunteers at such organizations - and to some of the paid staff also - so procrastination is their first line of action.
As for Parks and Wildlife...bloody hell, I would have expected quicker action there.
Anyhow, a good outcome for the snakes and the offender has a date with his karma.
Morgana


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## cma_369 (Mar 30, 2012)

only infront of the cameras they seem to give a stuff! 
I seriously don't understand how hard it is to reverse the onus onto the accused to prove he hasn't neglected his animals, rather then force rangers to spend countless man hours chasing their tails....
Also, INCREASE! the bloody fines, like they have with traffic infringments.
It will raise even more revenue for our cash strapped governments and people might finally wake up and smell the cheese!


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## Raymonde (Mar 30, 2012)

It seems that although this case had an ok outcome (animals safe and re-homed, and owner prosecuted although only lightly fined), ULTIMATELY if you want to prove without a doubt that someone is mistreating or failing to properly care for their animal(s) you must leave all the animals alone and provide no care, even if it means they die as a result as that is the only way authorities can't question your allegations, don't buy them off the owner, don't clean them or feed them, just report it and take pictures, and watch the animals die or suffer.....

in other words the system sucks. Its a matter of deciding whats more important, providing treatment and saving the animals life OR making sure that the owner with be prosecuted and stopped from doing the same thing again

Luckily in this situation it was possible to eventually get both outcomes. But only because Cam and Sean cared enough to persist with reporting it. Well done Cam and Sean, you did a really great job in a really crappy situation

(p.s. i am not saying don't provide care for mistreated animals, i know i wouldn't have been able to stop myself if i had been in cam's and sean's position, i am saying the system wants us to not provide care IF we want any official action to be taken)


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## miss_mosher (Mar 30, 2012)

Morgana said:


> This incident has certainly fired people up, as it should. Please don't think however, that it's only reptiles that receive the cold shoulder from the authorities. I own both snakes and furry critters, and in my time as a horse owner I have had the eye-opening experience of assisting in the rescue of neglected and abused horses. Often reduced to tears, my daughter and I would help care for the rescued animals whilst the relevant 'authorities' worked on the cases. IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, THE OWNERS WERE GIVEN A SMALL FINE, A LECTURE BY THE RSPCA, AND THE ANIMALS WERE RETURNED TO THEIR "CARE" !!! After much digging and worming around, I encountered an equally frustrated RSPCA officer who told me confidentially that horses were hardly ever seized permanently because the RSPCA doesn't have the room to paddock them. That's right, the morons who are supposed to be defending the helpless creatures of this world can't work out a solution to this 'insurmountable' problem. How about paying some farmer a modest fee to agist them until they are rehomed so it saves him slashing his fields? Hard, isn't it?
> I would say that snakes represent the 'unsavoury' to some of the fluff and feathers volunteers at such organizations - and to some of the paid staff also - so procrastination is their first line of action.
> As for Parks and Wildlife...bloody hell, I would have expected quicker action there.
> Anyhow, a good outcome for the snakes and the offender has a date with his karma.
> Morgana



I have a solution to this problem... STOP BUILDING BEAUTIFUL HOUSES PACKED LIKE SARDINES ON THE PADDOCKS. I used to attend a riding school here and in the last decade, ALL of the paddocks that housed the 150+ horses have been covered in houses. One of the biggest lot of paddocks is right next to a massive water bird habitat which obviously smells a bit during Spring. So what happened when they flattened the paddocks and put hundreds of houses on them? The people living there complained about the smell so the council ripped all the natural flora from the Waterbird habitat to stop attracting birds. So now it's a fenced off creek with a bunch of sheep living happily in their houses next door... Furious! 
Oh and naturally my riding school got shut down and replaced by a woollies. The end.


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## Python-Lover4lyf (Mar 30, 2012)

:shock:


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## CaptainRatbag (Mar 31, 2012)

Can you imagine what would have happened to the snakes if cam and sean hadnt intervened? I can hardly bare to imagine it! It would have been devastating..... at least the snakes have a chance now (I hope)

Again, good onya boys


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 31, 2012)

RSPCA are a money making company now. The RSPCA have retained the name but they don't really protect anything. Last year they euthanized over 10,000 dogs and cats and managed to turn out with 18m dollars of profit , this exercise would have taken money away from their profit margin.


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## CrystalMoon (Mar 31, 2012)

I am ashamed of this poor excuse of a human  I feel the deepest sense of sorrow for the poor reptiles in this situation .... The fact the authorities have been so apathetic is disgusting. I can only imagine the feelings you are going through. All I can say is thankyou for caring enough to help these poor defenseless snakes


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?mwg3lp


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## Nes88c (Apr 4, 2012)

I feel so deeply upset and distugested by all of this. Its a big wake up call for everyone, including the authoruites. I am very new to keeping reptilies and I am aware i have no experiences in deeling with them... but surely common sense prevales here, u dont keep ur cat litter filthy as it stinks out the house and is unhealthy for ur pets, same goes with dogs, mice, rats, any aminal really doesnt it?? 

I would really like to know how these beautiful creatures are going and see how they are now, in size differences, etc, etc. 

i dont belive this thread should ever be closed, but reamin open as a constant reminder of how to help animals in need. I agree that RSPCA, P&W etc etc need to step up to the mark and do it quickly!!!! I also agree that it sucks that in order to help these animals in the long run, we need to watch them suffer and die, this needs to be stopped and stopped NOW

i would like to say thank you to Cam and Sean, you are in inspiration to all of us on here, you have done the impossible, even if the result was a little disheartening, you should hold your heads up high and know you will always have the respect of your fellow reptile keepers. well done!!!!!!


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## Manda1032 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thank you for this thread. I was thinking of wasting my time by calling the DERM morons in regards to a local issue but I will not waste my time. I have delt with DERM before in reporting a person taking wild animals and selling them on as his own collection and got nowhere because when they decided to drive the 2 hours from Toowoomba they found no one home so they went back and never followed up. I knew he was selling wild animals cause he asked me to collect and keep the ones I found in my bird cages!
I have also had the misfortune of dealing with the RSPCA on many occasions. I will no longer donate to them for all of the reasons stated in posts on this thread. I have also delt with the RSPCA in townsville. They are truely beyond hopeless! It doesn't matter what animals are abused, all the people really get is a slap on the wrist. The only real hope we have is Karma, and pray it bites their Butts soooo hard!

Cam and Sean, you went further than most would have. To go thru the stresses of trying to get justice I know is the hardest thing. To see the animals in the state they are subjected to pails in comparison to the emotions of dealing with the authorities. But the glimmer of hope the police offer in this story is so suprising, and somewhat comforting. To think the boys in blue pushed for the justice of these little scaled victims makes me smile and think there is still hope for the human race yet. Thank you Seargent Mark Hogenelst of the Charters Towers Stock and Rural Crime Investigation Squad for giving the little reptiles a voice


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## PythonLegs (Apr 4, 2012)

Once again, QLD police do what RSPCA and DERM should be doing. Funny how the representatives of both organisations (who do frequent this site, and have undoubtedly read this thread) are staying silent..unsurprising to see the brand new, amazing reptile facility the rspca rep. was shouting about is as big a waste of time and money as everything else they've attempted recently. Still think the pay leap was justified, Mr.Hornby?


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## herpaholik (Aug 30, 2012)

This made me cry. I treat my snakes like they are my babies. :cry:


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## Damiieen (Aug 30, 2012)

WOW! Just read this thread... Honestly top job mate! Done everyone proud.

Haven't read all the comment's but yeah the police and RSPCA suppose to be there for all animal's obviously could not care less :/ Hope there all doing well now and are all living a better life at a new home which they deserve. 
Again top job!


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## oOLaurenOo (Aug 30, 2012)

Unfortunately the RSPCA can only enforce the rules as the state and federal government lay them down. They (like any government organisation) are so swamped down by rules and regulations it seems impossible to do anything that isn't officially covered by a rule book. If you want change, start petitioning to your local or state government for stricter animal abuse laws. I personally agree 100% that there should be greater fines and jail time for animal abusers, but the RSPCA and national parks and wildlife can't do anything about that unless the state and federal laws change to allow them to do so. If we could get a serious petition going with ALOT of names on it then maybe we could get somewhere, but we need our frustration to be directed at the right people if we want to actually make a difference.

Unfortunately the RSPCA can only enforce the rules as the state and federal government lay them down. They (like any government organisation) are so swamped down by rules and regulations it seems impossible to do anything that isn't officially covered by a rule book. If you want change, start petitioning to your local or state government for stricter animal abuse laws. I personally agree 100% that there should be greater fines and jail time for animal abusers, but the RSPCA and national parks and wildlife can't do anything about that unless the state and federal laws change to allow them to do so. If we could get a serious petition going with ALOT of names on it then maybe we could get somewhere, but we need our frustration to be directed at the right people if we want to actually make a difference.

- - - Updated - - -

(Definitely not saying they couldn't do with some improvement by the way) Just saying if we want change, it would be more effective if it was initiated higher up the food chain.


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## MrSpike (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't know about anyone else, but I would be pissed right off if someone wandered into my herp room at their own leisure.. neglect or not.

In this case yeah, maybe the outcome of the situation etc required it to happen... whatever. But, I don't understand why people just can't mind their own fricken business.


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## oOLaurenOo (Aug 31, 2012)

Seriously? If you were hit by a bus and dying on the side of the road would you expect assistance? Or would you want people to 'mind there own business'? Why do animals not get the same right? The right to help if they are in a bad situation. If anything, we should do more for them! They can't call 000 with there mobile phones, or even call out for help. They are 100% dependent on us for everything. If you see something going on that you know is wrong, you should always do something. otherwise your just another part of the problem.


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## MrSpike (Sep 2, 2012)

I think you've missed my point. And obviously can't see my comment in which I say "maybe the outcome of the situation etc required it to happen" in my last post. What gives you the right to enter my house and go through my stuff if I don't know you? Nothing.

What if you stumbled into a herp room that is immaculate in every aspect of husbandry, housing, maintenance etc and was full of expensive snakes, and you where the one with 'dirty' animals? It's not your right to go in there, nor is it your obligation. It's the job of people like RSPCA or DECCW (if they actually give a **** about the way reptiles are kept, which is arguable in most cases) IF they get a report of neglect.

You are just being nosey and should mind your own business, realistically.


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## Leasdraco (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm not one to judge people on how clean they keep there house etc, but in this case the animals were in serious neglect.if u notice a dog chained up for days with no food/water what would u do? not enough people think of the animals welfare and act on it.


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## woody101 (Sep 2, 2012)

Update on these little critters?


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## Renenet (Sep 2, 2012)

Mr Spike, 

I agree that there are times when I wish other people would mind their own business. However, there are times when minding your own business is not an ethical option. This thread is about one of those times.

As I understand it, Sean was staying at the place for a few days with the occupant's permission. He found the neglected animals during that time. It sounds like he would have to have been wilfully blind - and probably lacking a nose - not to find them. What was he supposed to do after that? If that were me, I could not in all good conscience say, "It's not my responsibility," go back to my daily life and do nothing. 

Neither could Sean, and neither could Cam once he found out, even though they both had busy lives of their own. 

All too often "minding your own business" is used as an excuse not to get involved in an awkward situation, an excuse not to take responsibility. Sean and Cam didn't do that. They saw a problem, rolled up their sleeves, jumped in and fixed it. They deserve praise, not criticism. More of us should be like that.


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## Darlyn (Sep 2, 2012)

MrSpike said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but I would be pissed right off if someone wandered into my herp room at their own leisure.. neglect or not.
> 
> In this case yeah, maybe the outcome of the situation etc required it to happen... whatever. But, I don't understand why people just can't mind their own fricken business.


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## Hazordous-Herps (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey, I'm in Townsville to and this story is sicking to the teeth. I can't believe this would happen and it to happen in our city to. I also can't believe that the police did nothing and niether did the RSPCA. I could help you out if you want just PM me, an we could sort something out


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## Conners (Sep 7, 2012)

MrSpike said:


> I think you've missed my point. And obviously can't see my comment in which I say "maybe the outcome of the situation etc required it to happen" in my last post. What gives you the right to enter my house and go through my stuff if I don't know you? Nothing.
> 
> What if you stumbled into a herp room that is immaculate in every aspect of husbandry, housing, maintenance etc and was full of expensive snakes, and you where the one with 'dirty' animals? It's not your right to go in there, nor is it your obligation. It's the job of people like RSPCA or DECCW (if they actually give a **** about the way reptiles are kept, which is arguable in most cases) IF they get a report of neglect.
> 
> You are just being nosey and should mind your own business, realistically.



This is absolute nonsense. He came across the room in legitimate circumstances and what he discovered created an obligation to act.


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## SarahScales (Sep 7, 2012)

I believe it was the stench that drew them into the room... The scent of 47 rotting plastic containers isn't merely 'wandering in leisurely'. If they were immaculately kept, there would have been no scent and no reason to go into the room.


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## PythonLegs (Sep 7, 2012)

If you treat animals the way this guy did, the right to privacy in just one right you shouldn't have.


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## Colin (Sep 10, 2012)

please look at the date of this thread 31-Jul-11, 09:22 PM 
Im closing it as per OP request.


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