# feeding rats vs quail



## tahnia666 (Apr 2, 2014)

What are peoples thoughts on varying meals for snakes? Ive only ever fed rats to my snakes, mostly cause theyre easy to source and contain what my guys.need to be healthy. 
But, today I bought some.quail don't know why really, just curious as to whether people think variety holds any importance to snakes health?


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## pinefamily (Apr 2, 2014)

Hi Tahnia,
Some people on here in the past have said you shouldn't change what you feed a snake, but that was more in relation to swapping between rats and mice. However, we've successfully given some of our yearling pythons day old chickens when they were otherwise on weaner rats. We were given the chickens to tempt a problem feeder, but it came good with rats anyway.
We've been toying with the idea of quails ourselves.


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## tahnia666 (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks [MENTION=38465]pinefamily[/MENTION] I'd love to give loki a go on quail but I m frightened he won't go back onto rats lol.


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## Snowman (Apr 2, 2014)

I feed rat's chickens and mice... Never have any problems with them and like giving them variety.


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## Focus (Apr 2, 2014)

tahnia666 said:


> Thanks @pinefamily I'd love to give loki a go on quail but I m frightened he won't go back onto rats lol.



Plenty of captive snakes have lived long healthy lives on nothing but rodents. Variety certainly shouldn't hurt them, whether it's of any benefit isn't locked in but it may well be.

Having said that, if your snake was ever a fussy eater, I wouldn't recommend changing up the diet. If it decides it likes quail and quail only then that'll be that and you'll have to be able to source quail consistently. Or it might refuse quail, and then refuse rats for awhile too, because why not I'm a snake and I do what I want. But if it's been a machine with food you should be right. 

Just stuff worth considering.


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## tahnia666 (Apr 2, 2014)

Awesome [MENTION=16366]Snowman[/MENTION] i always feel bad giving them the same thing  thanks [MENTION=23064]Focus[/MENTION]


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## pinefamily (Apr 2, 2014)

That's a good point about whether they are fussy eaters or not. Our Gammons and our MD are all great feeders, and there hasn't been a problem with them refusing food. Funny though, two of our best feeders, our bredli and our adult jungle, both refused the day old chicken.


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## Snowman (Apr 2, 2014)

pinefamily said:


> That's a good point about whether they are fussy eaters or not. Our Gammons and our MD are all great feeders, and there hasn't been a problem with them refusing food. Funny though, two of our best feeders, our bredli and our adult jungle, both refused the day old chicken.


Yeah some animals don't like them. I have a few stimis that will eat DOC and some that wont. The ones that eat them seem to eat anything though, so they are the ones I give variety to.


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## tahnia666 (Apr 2, 2014)

So, it took him a while to figure out how to go at it but he certainly seemed to enjoy.it....


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## 86JAP (Apr 2, 2014)

I have recently started feeding quail to my 13 month old bredli and she didn't have any trouble taking the first one offered, apart from eating it backwards lol. I have since been alternating between quail and rats with no dramas at all, she had her 2nd quail on monday night after a rat the monday before.

The only thing I have noticed with the quails is they seem to be larger then rats when compared by weight. I just fed a 29g quail which was the same physical size a the 37g weaner rat the week before.


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## baker (Apr 2, 2014)

There is nothing wrong with varying what you feed your snake. If anything the snake will be better off because each different prey item will have different amounts of nutrients the snake needs. So if one prey item is low in a particular nutrient another sort may have more than enough to balance it out. Plus it will be more stimulating for the animal having a change every so often.
Cheers Cameron


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## Bart70 (Apr 2, 2014)

I have sourced and breed selective bred meat quail, mainly due to the lack of cost effective, reliable and regular supply of quality rodents (particularly in the larger sizes) in my area. My animals love them and have shown no ill effect - not that I would expect it. I am yet to have one refuse them, and they will continue to eat rodents if I offer them one so it does not appear to have put them off their food.

They are 'broader' across the breast than a rat of the same weight....so I find I have to feed a slightly smaller weight than I would a rat, but analysis of selective bred meat quail suggest they are slightly leaner in fat than rodents (moreso as you get into larger rodent sizes) and provide approx 10% more protein by weight than a rodent so it could be argued they pick up a bit of the lost size in added protein. Any nutritional data is very subjective as a rat's nutritional value varies significantly depending on how it is fed/raised and its geneology (in much the same way as quail do from species to species and also nutritional regime). The quail I have are like picking up a shot-putt.....They are very solid for their size. I have had poultry fanciers show surprise at the solidness when picking up one of my birds.

The bonus for me is that in terms of cost per gram they are more cost effective to produce than rodents although the initial outlay in incubating and brooding equipment can be significant. An extra bonus is I have bird fanciers chasing some of my nicer colours to add to their collections, and the kids love eating the quail eggs (hard boiled in their lunch boxes) so it has a couple of bonuses as opposed to rodents as the old 'rat in the lunchbox' does not seem to be so popular at school lunch times these days.....

I see a lot of benefits from feeding a quality meat bird to snakes....but like rats, if they are not a quality product to start with the results will reflect the same. I guess if you have a good reliable supply of rodents at reasonable costs, then stick with it. If you can source good quality meat birds and rats are hard to come by I would not hesitate.


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## 86JAP (Apr 2, 2014)

^^^^ This bloke knows his quail  I feed my snake the birds [MENTION=36726]Bart70[/MENTION] breeds and after a 5 Min chat with him about it I was convinced to make the switch.


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## Bart70 (Apr 2, 2014)

86JAP said:


> ^^^^ This bloke knows his quail  I feed my snake the birds @Bart70 breeds and after a 5 Min chat with him about it I was convinced to make the switch.



Thanks Mate.....I figure if I can eat it myself they are good enough for my snakes!......and I never was able to breed a rat that was as tasty as my quail


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## pinefamily (Apr 2, 2014)

What type of quails are you breeding, Bart70? And how significant is the equipment cost?


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## adz83 (Apr 2, 2014)

i feed mine a variety...rats, quails and rabbits...i like mixing it up for em


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## HAMISH_NOAH (Apr 2, 2014)

Is feeding only one bad though?


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## tahnia666 (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks [MENTION=36726]Bart70[/MENTION] 
I usually give Loki (coastal carpet) 2 sub adult rats per feed, today he got one of each, it was funny to watch lol!!
I'm happier giving the snakes a varied.diet, I'm one of those, who home cooks the dogs and cats food cause I don't like feeding them the same old every day  good to know I can give the scaled pets a bit of variety too


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## Bart70 (Apr 2, 2014)

Pinefamily, 

I am breeding Jumbo Jap Quail....but that is a little subjective because there is no definition of a 'Jumbo' Jap quail. Basically any Jap quail that grows bigger than a standard Jap Quail (140-160g) can be called a Jumbo Jap quail. Quail meat producers selectively breed their lines to develop a fast growing, dense, heavily built bird that is desired for the culinary market. These are the birds to get - lean high protein animals. Anybody who says quail are all 'feathers' have never seen quality meat birds.

Mine are selective bred from lines originally sourced from a large commercial quail meat producer. They grow to around 290-300g full grown, and hit the 230-270 gram mark in around 5 and a half to 6 weeks. I will be introducing new bloodlines soon from another non related meat producer as Jap Quail suffer badly from inbreeding - These lines actually produce a larger bird (350g+) so will hatch some of their eggs and keep some roosters initially to mix with my hens. There are 'Mammoth Jumbos' that have just been released - 600g+ birds. They are still expensive and too large to house in conventional quail brooding equipment.

In terms of cost, $1000 - 1200 will get you a fairly reasonable setup...this may vary depending on exactly how you end up doing it and your individual needs and circumstances. Mine are all raised indoors & off the ground where light, temperature (to a degree), and parasites can be controlled/eliminated. I would have difficulty doing what I do if I had to do it outdoors, but it is not impossible. 

HTH


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## critterguy (Apr 4, 2014)

I had a large italian that would have been called a jumbo, she weighed about 360 grams I think and had a poor little 100and?gram english that would try to mount her, was like watching a bull ride at a rodeo, he eventually took to the other smaller brown jap.

The main point the others haven't bought up that I'd seen mentioned in the past numerous times on reptiles in relation to feeding snakes birds is that they produce alot sloppier and stinkier poos, so long as your prepared for that than go ahead.

I've also heard the argument against it a few times too, am on the fence on that one, some say it's fine to vary the diet, others say there's risk they'll favour the new food and not go back to their normal food. 

We haven't varied the diet of ours except when she had mouth rot and we were stressing over her losing too much weight (she wasn't and the vet said her weight loss was in normal amounts and she could stand to lose a little anyway, but it was our first time with her catching anything, so we were stressing out and tried feeding her small stuff like chook hearts etc that would be easier to get down).


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## Bart70 (Apr 4, 2014)

critterguy said:


> The main point the others haven't bought up that I'd seen mentioned in the past numerous times on reptiles in relation to feeding snakes birds is that they produce alot sloppier and stinkier poos, so long as your prepared for that than go ahead.



I hear this a lot....but to date I have yet to see it in any of my snakes. I had one exception recently where a snake that I was feeding more regularly than normal over a month produced a runny poo.....I am not convinced this was as a consequence of the quail she has been eating or whether her system was reacting the to the increased frequency of feeding given that she has been on quail for months and never done one like it previously. My Bredli actually 'compresses' his and you can see the broken up feather segments in it....much like the fur in the stool when fed rabbits.

There is another keeper in my area that feeds all his snakes quail and it not getting the 'runny poo' syndrome. 

I know that some people have reported that it happens......I am just not convinced it is the quail itself. Maybe some animals adjust differently to a change of food source. I have enough snakes here on quail producing normal stools to be convinced it is not a sole consequence of being fed quail.


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## critterguy (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, good to hear from someone that's been feeding theirs quail a bit longer, good to hear the runny poo is a irregular thing and not common like reading around made it sound.


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## PythonLegs (Apr 4, 2014)

My guys has been eating nothing but quail and pigeon from Baden, hasnt made any difference to their waste.


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## Becceles (Apr 4, 2014)

My stimmie was alternating between mice and quail until he decided he didn't want quail anymore. He now feeds exclusively on mice.


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## pinefamily (Apr 4, 2014)

Wouldn't say runny, but when fed the day old chickens, our pythons have had a different consistency to their poop. Not a problem by any means.


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## cwtiger (Apr 4, 2014)

I must have missed the thread re not swaping from Rat to mice why is this. In the wild snakes don't always get to fed on the same diet. My snakes eat rat,mice,quail and chicken all feed well breed well and grow well. I have done this for many years I have had no ill effects on my snakes and they have always been given great bills of health from their yearly vet checks. I own 15 snakes and amongst them I have 4 breeding pair. Two pairs are proven breeders who self incubate and two are a new pairing that I haven't breed.


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## Becceles (Apr 4, 2014)

I think it has more to do with the reluctance to take rats after being offered mice. I know my snake won't go near a rat but loves his mice.
In saying that I didn't persist too much as I have no real need to change as he is only a stimmie.
Can anyone with more experience in this comment?


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## cwtiger (Apr 4, 2014)

I can't answer that for you in regards to your stimmie preferring his mice. I have bredli, carpet pythons, childreni and different locals of stimmie's. I can feed rat today and then mouse the next week or I can give rat and if they seem still alittle hungry follow up with mice or vice versa. I can also give my darwin carpet a rat xlarge, then quail then chicken he can tend to me a little bit of a piglet at times.


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## Gizmo101 (Apr 5, 2014)

I have one snake who won't take anything but rats, but he has been a major fuss pot from the beginning.
Then the other guy gets chickens, rats, rabbits and he nearly got himself a magpie once when we had him on the lawn in the backyard. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tahnia666 (Apr 6, 2014)

So all  Loki has since crapped out his quail and
All seems normal on that front . Lol
Perhaps it could be the quality of the quail that causes sloppy crap? I feed him a 3 week old quail too if anyone was curious. [MENTION=38465]pinefamily[/MENTION] at this stage I'd say it you were thinking to give them a go, its worked out fine here


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