# Exotics- Making a Difference!



## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 12, 2011)

Hey Everyone,

I am itching for a difference, for a difference in the policy of disallowing exotics reptiles in Australia, to us reptile owners... It is definitely a long shot however it is possible! Many other exotic pets are aloud in Australia such as birds, dogs, cats ect the list is endless, so why not reptiles? I am planning to use the poll above as an important argument in our case! I can express all of your concerns on your behalf to the wildlife trade group! If you would like me to express your concerns feel free to PM me... We can make a difference!!! Its up to us...

Thanks,
James


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## rreptiless (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm with you ALL the way mate ! I'll send you a PM shortly!


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## reptilegirl2000 (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm with you as well ! There is some absolutely amazing exotic reptiles out there!!!


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## Fuscus (Nov 12, 2011)

You won't even get a majority on APS


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## Echiopsis (Nov 12, 2011)

I can honestly and whole heartedly say i hope you fail miserably. Thankfully people with higher brain function than yourself put these regs in place.


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## cypptrkk90 (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> Many other exotic pets are aloud in Australia such as birds, dogs, cats ect the list is endless, so why not reptiles?


 
This!


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Good luck with it, but I don't like your chances. Considering WA rep keepers can't even keep some of the reps found locally in WA, let alone reps from other states. To get the law changed is above the state level of government and needs changes to the Australian environmental act at a national level. 

Sorry but I don't think a poll is going to change much. By the way I voted No I am happy with the amazing reptiles we already have.


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## cypptrkk90 (Nov 12, 2011)

Echiopsis said:


> I can honestly and whole heartedly say i hope you fail miserably. Thankfully people with higher brain function than yourself put these regs in place.



too far..ouch.


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## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 12, 2011)

Echiopsis said:


> I can honestly and whole heartedly say i hope you fail miserably. Thankfully people with higher brain function than yourself put these regs in place.



No wonder you don't have any friends on APS !


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2011)

What is your plan to make this difference?

You don't need friends to be right lol.



Reptile_Maniac said:


> No wonder you don't have any friends on APS !


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## Ramsayi (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I am itching for a difference, for a difference in the policy of disallowing exotics reptiles in Australia, to us reptile owners... It is definitely a long shot however it is possible! Many other exotic pets are aloud in Australia such as birds, dogs, cats ect the list is endless, so why not reptiles? I am planning to use the poll above as an important argument in our case! I can express all of your concerns on your behalf to the wildlife trade group! If you would like me to express your concerns feel free to PM me... We can make a difference!!! Its up to us...
> 
> ...



Who is this wildlife trade group? A poll of randoms on an internet site hardly constitutes an important argument.Lastly on what grounds do you think it may be possible,if it's because many other exotic pets are allowed you are sadly mistaken.


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## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 12, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> What is your plan to make this difference?



Put forward different opinions on why they should be allowed... I've already received quite a few PM's in favour of the proposal!


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## Tassie97 (Nov 12, 2011)

we should have Australian reptiles in Tasmania first


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## Ramsayi (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> Put forward different opinions on why they should be allowed... I've already received quite a few PM's in favour of the proposal!



Put it forward to who exactly?


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2011)

That's pretty one sided. Who are you going to put them forward to (who is this wildlife trade group)? 



Reptile_Maniac said:


> Put forward different opinions on why they should be allowed... I've already received quite a few PM's in favour of the proposal!


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## Kurto (Nov 12, 2011)

have fun with your plan!... we're on our own down under! Aussie government thinks local, not global! Unless your sleeping with or related to cabinet minister you chances are slim to none.

Not that I advocate illegal activity, but if you want to keep exotics.. It's your only shot.. Other than owning your own zoo of course!


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## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 12, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> That's pretty one sided. Who are you going to put them forward to (who is this wildlife trade group)?



A group which has a huge part to say in allowing exotics into Australia.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

I am sorry but you just ******* into the wind.


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## Ramsayi (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> A group which has a huge part to say in allowing exotics into Australia.



Do they have a name?Who are they? etc


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2011)

Why haven't i heard of them until now?

Did you make it up?



Reptile_Maniac said:


> A group which has a huge part to say in allowing exotics into Australia.


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## reptilian1924 (Nov 12, 2011)

l to don't like your chances of us ever being allowed to keep and breed exotic Reptiles, we don't wont anymore pest getting into our natural environment and doing so much harm to native wildlife, just like the Cane Toads have done here in Australia.

l personally hope we are never ever allowed to keep & breed exotic Reptiles legally on permit or specialist licence. each and everyone to their own opinion good luck.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> A group which has a huge part to say in allowing exotics into Australia.


So you say, but who is this mystical group.

Starting to smell alot like troll


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## Reptile_Maniac (Nov 12, 2011)

Okay... Here is a link to the group: Keeping exotic (non-native) animals - Wildlife trade and conservation in Australia


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## longqi (Nov 12, 2011)

Anyone who understands ecological balance must oppose anything like this
Exotics are banned for very good reasons

Show me any valid reason why they should be permitted??
"I want a pretty reptile" is not a valid reason


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## Kitah (Nov 12, 2011)

We already have too many ferals such as cats, dogs, cane toads, camels, pigs, horses, red eared sliders. People on here may be more responsible than a lot of members in the general public, however look at how many 'escapee python threads' have been posted on here over time. Regardless of how 'careful' keepers may be, irresponsible people will still release them into the wild and there will still be escapees. Also, if you allow the importation of exotics, it poses a significant disease risk to both reptiles in captivity, and more importantly, our wild populations. 

Sure, I love a lot of the exotic species, but personally I think we have enough ferals, and we don't need any more diseases- the risk of both is too significant. 


Summary = risk >>> benefit


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## waruikazi (Nov 12, 2011)

According to that link Wild Life Trade is not a group or a department. It looks more like a policy or information page...


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## saximus (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> Okay... Here is a link to the group: Keeping exotic (non-native) animals - Wildlife trade and conservation in Australia


lol I think you'll find that's not the "wildlife trade group". They are the ones responsible for upholding/making the laws against keeping exotics


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## Tassie97 (Nov 12, 2011)

but the people that are saying no, you are also saying if they where imported legally you wouldn't keep them?

who doesn't want a chameleon? c'mon...


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Haha that's your plan. You got no chance you realise that the in the name of the link it say "conservation" you do realise that conservation means you don't go introducing exotic species.


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## Australis (Nov 12, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> but the people that are saying no, you are also saying if they where imported legally you wouldn't keep them?



I can say i wouldn't... i can obtain legal exotic birds and fish.. but i just always went for the natives for various reasons ive always had this mentality. 



Tassie97 said:


> who doesn't want a chameleon? c'mon...



I dont.. but i would love some Nangur Spiny Skinks.


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## longqi (Nov 12, 2011)

Thats not an import support group
Thats the Government Department that helps block exotic imports


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## Ramsayi (Nov 12, 2011)

Groundhog day yet again.No amount of discussion on the subject will make one bit of difference.It would have as much of a chance as a snowflake in hell .


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

I keep trying to figure out why everyone wants to be like America. I don't mean that in a rude way, but for all those aussies that want to keep exotics, don't they have any idea as to what they have done to us? I mean to me, Australia has the best reptiles in the world. Carpet pythons, Womas, Black-headed pythons, Frilled Lizards, Blue tongue skinks, I mean what more do you guys want? I for one can tell you how bad exotics can get. Just look at Florida, Texas and California over here in America. They all have exotics but Florida is the worst out of any of them. Florida is the number one place in the world for non native species. We have exotics and sometimes I wish we didn't. I mean we can get anything in the world from Gaboon Vipers to Green Anacondas to Carpet pythons to monitors and look what it has done to us. 

Just be careful with what you want. To me, no other place has the amazing diversity of reptiles like Australia does. Why ruin that like we did?


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## Tassie97 (Nov 12, 2011)

I just want Australian reptiles in Tasmania that is all I ask :cry:


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## Carnelian (Nov 12, 2011)

I think we should focus more on getting the laws to be universal Oz wide rather than different in every state in regards to what we can have than introducing legal exotics which has the potential to be very damaging to the environment. Everything else we have introduced has had disastrous effects, majority of people are just to dumb to think about how their actions effect more than themselves.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Couldn't agree more morelia4life.


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## Tassie97 (Nov 12, 2011)

Carnelian said:


> I think we should focus more on getting the laws to be universal Oz wide rather than different in every state in regards to what we can have than introducing legal exotics which has the potential to be very damaging to the environment. Everything else we have introduced has had disastrous effects, majority of people are just to dumb to think about how their actions effect more than themselves.


hell yes! *high fives*


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## Wally (Nov 12, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> I keep trying to figure out why everyone wants to be like America. I don't mean that in a rude way, but for all those aussies that want to keep exotics, don't they have any idea as to what they have done to us? I mean to me, Australia has the best reptiles in the world. Carpet pythons, Womas, Black-headed pythons, Frilled Lizards, Blue tongue skinks, I mean what more do you guys want? I for one can tell you how bad exotics can get. Just look at Florida, Texas and California over here in America. They all have exotics but Florida is the worst out of any of them. Florida is the number one place in the world for non native species. We have exotics and sometimes I wish we didn't. I mean we can get anything in the world from Gaboon Vipers to Green Anacondas to Carpet pythons to monitors and look what it has done to us.
> 
> Just be careful with what you want. To me, no other place has the amazing diversity of reptiles like Australia does. Why ruin that like we did?




It's more the urge in some to want what they can't have. A futile exercise not always reserved for the younger generation.


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> It's more the urge in some to want what they can't have. A futile exercise not always reserved for the younger generation.



I understand what you mean. Everything comes with risk though. Have you ever asked yourself what would happen if the Aus government said "you can have any exotic you want"? I know there are people there who wouldn't keep them but what about the millions that would keep them? I don't know how sensitive the environment is there so I can't say what type of damage would result in exotic species. I just know from experience here with exotic species. 

You have to take into account the exotics you want. Does Aus have an environment like the exotic's environment? Would predators eat them or would they eat native predators? For ex... not many Aussie animals will be able to kill a 15 foot Burmese Python or a 20 foot Reticulated python. Hell not many animals there can kill the Cane toad. What affects has the Cane toad alone had there? Just questions you have to ask yourself.


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> we can make a difference!!! Its up to us



you could always start a "we need 1,000,000 people to "like" this page to bring in exotic reptiles to australia" Facebook Group and then you can show the government dudes to impressive them.. 
just a thought anyway..


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## saximus (Nov 12, 2011)

By our powers combined!


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## MesseNoire (Nov 12, 2011)

How does Australia benefit from keeping exotic reptiles?
Why should they be kept legally in Australia?


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## Wally (Nov 12, 2011)

The diverse range of native species we can keep (WA & Tas exempt) have always been enough to satisfy my reptile curiosity.


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## hrafna (Nov 12, 2011)

captain saximus, he's our hero. going to help keep exotics down to zero! ((can i be fire?)

but seriously op i voted no, even with your very convincing secret government fbi/mib/asio group being mentioned.


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## dihsmaj (Nov 12, 2011)

Too many likable posts in this thread...


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## junglepython2 (Nov 12, 2011)

Is it school holidays already??


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## Boidae (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry mate, never going to happen..


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## Crystal..Discus (Nov 12, 2011)

I love these threads. The icing on this cake was the link. 

Classic.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok reptil_manic. Why do you think Australia should allow exotics in? Not just because of exotic fish, bird, cat. What would your reasoning be to get them allowed?


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

It's not only in America, back in my hometown in Asia i've seen everything from falcons, sea turtles, green anacondas, crocs, leopard cats and slow loris'

The second regulations get lax everyone seems to have dollar signs on their eyes, and honestly its sickening especially when all anyone cares about is profits gained from the wildlife trade.
Its so big even the regulating governmental bodies can't keep up, either that or they get bribed, it's small money anyway compared to what they actually gain from it, not to mention whats legal and whats illegal has ben blurred as a result.

And don't even get me started with when they lose interest with whatever they're keeping and starts dumping them.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> No wonder you don't have any friends on APS !



Yes he does. I am standing with him. Keep the exotics out.


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

I think reptile_manic should come over here to America and stay in Florida for a few weeks and then see how much they want exotics in Aus. When you walk around Florida and you see Chameleons (from Africa and Madagscar), Nile Monitors (from Africa), Burmese Pythons (from Southeast Asia), and a lot of other non native animals just living the life in Florida like it is their home, maybe it will open up your eyes. Exotics are no joke. They can prove fatal to native wildlife under the right conditions.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> Who is this wildlife trade group? A poll of randoms on an internet site hardly constitutes an important argument.Lastly on what grounds do you think it may be possible,if it's because many other exotic pets are allowed you are sadly mistaken.



Agree! How many exotic pets are now feral pests effecting our wildlife.


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## hrafna (Nov 12, 2011)

actually on second thought maybe there is some merit to this, i mean who wouldn't want to have a komodo dragon theft prevention system in place? just setup twin fences around your property and let the komodo roam freely between the 2 fences! yeah, while we are at it can we work on getting them flying monkeys imported from the land of oz?


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

"I have a dream that one day, down in Australia, with it's vicious exotic laws, that one day right in Australia that little black exotics will be able to join hands with little White exotics as brother and sister"

I think that's what Martin Luther King thought about Australia's exotic laws. Lol


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> A group which has a huge part to say in allowing exotics into Australia.



I am sorry, but I hope there is a group with an even HUGER part to say keep them out. They are pretty to look at, but leave them where they are.


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## Recharge (Nov 12, 2011)

it saddens me that such silly and selfish people think they should just be allowed to do what every they want and be damned the consequences.

you should be ashamed of yourselves, you have no regard for our wonderful native wildlife or the environment grrr makes me so gosh darn angry.


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## lizardloco (Nov 12, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> we should have Australian reptiles in Tasmania first



I wish I could like this way more than once!!!!!

And I don't even live in Tasmania...


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

Kitah said:


> We already have too many ferals such as cats, dogs, cane toads, camels, pigs, horses, red eared sliders. People on here may be more responsible than a lot of members in the general public, however look at how many 'escapee python threads' have been posted on here over time. Regardless of how 'careful' keepers may be, irresponsible people will still release them into the wild and there will still be escapees. Also, if you allow the importation of exotics, it poses a significant disease risk to both reptiles in captivity, and more importantly, our wild populations.
> 
> Sure, I love a lot of the exotic species, but personally I think we have enough ferals, and we don't need any more diseases- the risk of both is too significant.
> 
> ...



Is there somewhere overseas that is having big problems with burmese? pythons. Those snakes grow huge. Can you imagine them getting into our wildlife, we'd have no small - moderately large native species of any kind left if the likes of these pythons got out.



Tassie97 said:


> I just want Australian reptiles in Tasmania that is all I ask :cry:



And I would put my hand out for a tassie devil before a exotic reptile, any day.


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

Recharge said:


> it saddens me that such silly and selfish people think they should just be allowed to do what every they want and be damned the consequences.
> 
> you should be ashamed of yourselves, you have no regard for our wonderful native wildlife or the environment grrr makes me so gosh darn angry.



now now, i wouldn't say selfish, more likely misinformed, and personally there does not seem to be any ill intentions on his part is there?
theres nothing wrong with wanting stuff now right? At least from the posts (and the poll) we learn some new things, after all, isn't that what discussions are for anyway?


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

Carnelian said:


> I think we should focus more on getting the laws to be universal Oz wide rather than different in every state in regards to what we can have than introducing legal exotics which has the potential to be very damaging to the environment. Everything else we have introduced has had disastrous effects, majority of people are just to dumb to think about how their actions effect more than themselves.



But even the states have their laws for good reason. WA seems to be the most strict as far as I have read, not just with overseas stuff, but animals from other states gettng loose into their wildlife could be detrimental to their wildlife populations, too. Even plants. You look at the listings on Ebay for native trees, and see how many state "Not for WA or Tasmania".


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> Is there somewhere overseas that is having big problems with burmese? pythons. Those snakes grow huge. Can you imagine them getting into our wildlife, we'd have no small - moderately large native species of any kind left if the likes of these pythons got out.



Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason why the Burmese python does so well over here in America is because Florida's climate is almost that of Southeast Asia where the Burms are from. I doubt Aus has a climate like S.E Asia. Burms like it pretty warm and humid. Is the climate of Aus like that of S.E. Asia? If not then you really have nothing to worry about. 

Besides just like over here, Aus does have a predator that can kill a pretty large burm.... the Salt water croc. They are way more aggressive and larger then the American Alligator. Pretty sure the BHP's would kill a small to med size burm, also you have Perenties, Dingos, Native cats, other monitors and other predators.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)




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## Carnelian (Nov 12, 2011)

Far enough but what reason is there for not letting people keep natives that are endemic to where they live though? In QLD we can't have gliders which are native to the state. I just think the laws should be the same, I'd be devastated if we had to move to WA for example & had to give up all my babies because of the various differences from one state to another.



Morelia4life said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason why the Burmese python does so well over here in America is because Florida's climate is almost that of Southeast Asia where the Burms are from. I doubt Aus has a climate like S.E Asia. Burms like it pretty warm and humid. Is the climate of Aus like that of S.E. Asia? If not then you really have nothing to worry about.
> 
> Besides just like over here, Aus does have a predator that can kill a pretty large burm.... the Salt water croc. They are way more aggressive and larger then the American Alligator. Pretty sure the BHP's would kill a small to med size burm, also you have Perenties, Dingos, Native cats, other monitors and other predators.



Far North QLD would be prime habitat for the Burmese I think & I think it is already pretty fragile up that way. 

Oh we don't have native cats just feral introduced cats.


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## TheDriver (Nov 12, 2011)

Another one of these threads, cracks me up each time. Here is my two cents worth.
The main reason that people shouldn't be allowed exotics is because without excellent quarantine facilities set up we are at a huge risk of introducing diseases in larger numbers then the black market is responsible for. 

That being said, to all the people that talk about how nice our local stuff is, and it is, how many people try to throw jags over it to pretty it up? Where did those jags come from? What has been potentially introduced with them, as well as supporting the black market?

I am not anti jags I just find it funny when people are so anti exotics that a lot of them would happily keep Jags knowing their origins.

Cheers


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## Fang101 (Nov 12, 2011)

The way I see it is if you want exotics then why not go to whatever country thier from, quit complaining that Australia should change its laws to allow potentially dangerous animals to Australia's natives. Besides Australia has much better reps so having more is not needed. We should consider ourselves lucky to have these amazing reptiles.


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## FAY (Nov 12, 2011)

I have a solution....
The OP can move overseas. That will solve his problems and ours...LOL


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## Wally (Nov 12, 2011)

TheDriver said:


> Another one of these threads, cracks me up each time. Here is my two cents worth.
> The main reason that people shouldn't be allowed exotics is because without excellent quarantine facilities set up we are at a huge risk of introducing diseases in larger numbers then the black market is responsible for.
> 
> That being said, to all the people that talk about how nice our local stuff is, and it is, how many people try to throw jags over it to pretty it up? Where did those jags come from? What has been potentially introduced with them, as well as supporting the black market?
> ...




Don't tar everyone with the same brush.


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## Robssp (Nov 12, 2011)

For those who want exotics......hope you all have nice big fat wallets! Could only imagine what any legitimate imported reptile would cost to the regular punter.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Bugger my phone is about to die from reading this thread instead of working lol.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 12, 2011)

23 years ago my parents imported 4 bunny rabbits for me, from UK. It cost them $2000 back then.


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## XKiller (Nov 12, 2011)

If you rely want a exotic live somewhere elese.


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## Ramsayi (Nov 12, 2011)

Recharge said:


> you have no regard for our wonderful native wildlife or the environment grrr makes me so gosh darn angry.



Golly gosh,gee willikers and jumping jehosephats I agree :lol:


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## Colin (Nov 12, 2011)

It would be cool to have a "Name my Gaboon Viper" thread though


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## Tassie97 (Nov 12, 2011)

haha sure would be Colin!


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## Pazzy (Nov 12, 2011)

We in Australia have some of the best reptiles in the WORLD!!! and we where ever aloud to have exotics the same thing that has happened in other countries would happen here they would be released into the wild and compete with our own native animals!! We have enough of that already with wild cats and dogs..


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## Kitah (Nov 12, 2011)

I can't believe 30% (so far) actually want exotics here. Think it through- would you like to risk your entire collection due to disease? Do you enjoy seeing our native healthy reptiles in the wild, and seeing other wildlife (birds, mammals, amphibians- almost everything) that could be decimated by disease, predation and competition for resources which is a very likely moderate to long term scenario if exotics were introduced. Look at how cane toads took off. 

Australia is fragile enough already compliments of foolish mistakes by humans.

Stupidity and insanity is making the same mistakes repeatedly, yet expectng a different result each time. 

"Oh, none will escape or be released, and quarantine will prevent _all _diseases- theres no risk" /


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

Colin said:


> It would be cool to have a "Name my Gaboon Viper" thread though


Geoffrey the gaboon viper


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 12, 2011)

Colin said:


> It would be cool to have a "Name my Gaboon Viper" thread though





abnrmal91 said:


> Geoffrey the gaboon viper



i would call it Ted


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

While we may already have exotic birds breeding in australia it is actually now illegal to import birds, quarantine regulations have been tightened more in recent years, homestly i think you are kidding yourselves


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## hiranbags (Nov 12, 2011)

Good Luck, Australia has some amazing animals but for those of you against it... spend some time with a Fijian Crested Iguana and you'll want exotics in Australia too.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

We have an iguana at work, hes a nasty bugger and i can honestly say he does nothing for me, nor do the corn snakes or the burmese. I much prefer the wonderful reps that i have at home


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 12, 2011)

i'm happy with the aussie natives, the only thing that bothers me about import/export laws is that so many of our animals are over in america, so every time you look at something on youtube 99.9% of the time it's some teenage yank showing off his brand new woma pie-thorn


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

Lol. You guys want to see my Coastal? Lol. Sorry I couldn't resist. Aussie reptiles are just so awesome. Even us Americans have to have them. Why would we want a boring corn snake when we can have a Coastal or Jungle carpet or a Woma?


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## Recharge (Nov 12, 2011)

K3nny said:


> now now, i wouldn't say selfish, more likely misinformed, and personally there does not seem to be any ill intentions on his part is there?
> theres nothing wrong with wanting stuff now right? At least from the posts (and the poll) we learn some new things, after all, isn't that what discussions are for anyway?



you wouldn't call it selfish wanting to import animals into the country with all the risks associated to the environment? wow..

there's a saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" so intention or not, there is well known and discussed risks from multiple vectors, that in it's self screams "selfish" at least to me. 

and no, there's nothing with wanting stuff, it's fine to state you'd like to have something, but when you start discussing your cause for your own gain over the known risks, then it starts entering a grey area.

and yes we do learn new things all the time, it's those people who argue against all logic that annoys me.

we know there are a myriad of reptile diseases outside our country, we know some of these reptiles would, without ANY doubt cause monumental environmental damage if they escaped ( and they would without doubt, heck, most people on these forums have lost reptiles at least once, and many will yet) the risk is simply far too great (do you want another cane toad issue? rabbits? cats? the list is as long as your arm as it is) 

so yes, it's selfish and reckless in any way you put it forth.


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## ozziepythons (Nov 12, 2011)

For those reptile keepers in Australia burning with desire to work with exotic reptiles, a nice and legal way to get your fix is to become a zoo or wildlife keeper at a zoo or wildlife park. Some of the species you can get your hands dirty working with on a daily basis is both exciting and rewarding (which I can personally recommend). At the end of the day you can then go home to your cherished aussie natives and by comparison see just how lucky we are to have them in the first place.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree OZziepythons, quitely frankly the aussie natives in the collection at work are far more interesting. Can you really go past death adders, broad headed snakes and tigers for interestand beauty, not to mention scrubbies and all our amazing monitors and soon hopefully well have thorny devils in our colection as well, the burmese python and corn snakes and even the iguana really havent got anything on those guys (although i must admit a soft spot for tortoises  )


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## waikare (Nov 12, 2011)

why is it that all the our pyhons are avaliable in usa and europe then, when we have a no native wildlife export rule , i find kind of funny, if like a import bird and kept in a cage why cant we have snakes as they are caged aswell.


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## jordanmulder (Nov 12, 2011)

Do you people read threads? 
Read this... 
Some people realy don't think for instance " we already have exotic pets why don't we alow exotic reptiles (something along those lines anyway)" 
That's just like saying theft happens why don't we just legalize Piratism, are you people are aware of the damaged caused by cats, dogs, cane toads? We would only further that problem by the introduction of exotics (dah) 

In the last thread I posted this question
"I'm going to ask all exotic lovers a question

biring in all exotics and possibly destroy many of our native creatures?

Be safe and enjoy what we have, and have the privelige of having our native animals all around us?

Before the next exotic lover posts.... answer my question."



The thread died shortly after And I place this same question again to the next Pro exotic lover to post....


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## hiranbags (Nov 12, 2011)




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## waikare (Nov 12, 2011)

well heres a question why are so may ozzie snakes overseas


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

Recharge said:


> you wouldn't call it selfish wanting to import animals into the country with all the risks associated to the environment? wow..
> 
> there's a saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" so intention or not, there is well known and discussed risks from multiple vectors, that in it's self screams "selfish" at least to me.
> 
> ...



ok, the point has been made, but have you considered pure ignorance or misinformation on the OP's part? There's yet (at least from skimming) to be a substantial argument for exotics(and for good reason, as my previous post)

Heck the website linked, in all intents and purposes was the government's website listing whats legal and whatnot, so i'd say thats a pretty good indicator on the miss(or lack of)information on his part. 

Now i'm not defending importation of exotics, let's make that very clear, not by a long shot, but to jump the gun and accuse a poorly thought through notion as being purely selfish and for personal gain is stretching it abit no?

Perhaps this is a topic very close to your heart, and i respect that, but please don't take it out on people who may still be going through their learning curve, as perhaps we lack the same experience or insight as you do.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Waikare you CANT import birds. Laws were less strict in the oast because we didnt always understand the dangers of carting animals al over the world. W now know better and so birds can no longer be brought into the country yes we already have alot of exotic bird species here but that comes down to the horse having bolted as they say, too latet change that now and in some areas theynhave gone feral is is the situation with indian ringnecks in WA. Here we have an opportunity to close the gate and keep it closed BEFORE the horse bolts.

We have exotics birds, dogs, cats, farm animals and larger critters like camels all brought here with good intentions and without fail a large proportion of them have created a feral prblem in one way or another, why would we be silly enough to take that risk again?


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## cypptrkk90 (Nov 12, 2011)

all i want is a freakin tortoise, theyre so cool!


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

I like popcorn


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Just because other countries are less strict with their import regs doesnt mean we should be. We are very much cut off from the rest of the world in terms of animal and plant diseases and as such we have a responsibility to protect our precious creatures from imported diseases


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## snakeluvver (Nov 12, 2011)

I actually have zero interest in exotics, and I hope theyre never allowed here, and I doubt they will be.
When you think about it, people who want exotics are overlooking our amazing wildlife and becoming greedy for other things, but thats just human nature. We'll naturally want what we cant have. 
I believe the consequences would be too devastating if it was allowed, and for what? Just so some people can keep a ball python? 
The last thing we need is another invasive amphibian or reptile to stuff up our unique ecosystem.


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## lazylizzy (Nov 12, 2011)

do we want our own australian everglades story?


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## cypptrkk90 (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I actually have zero interest in exotics, and I hope theyre never allowed here, and I doubt they will be.
> When you think about it, people who want exotics are overlooking our amazing wildlife and becoming greedy for other things, but thats just human nature. We'll naturally want what we cant have.
> I believe the consequences would be too devastating if it was allowed, and for what? Just so some people can keep a ball python?
> The last thing we need is another invasive amphibian or reptile to stuff up our unique ecosystem.



You have got to be the most sophisticated 12 year old, ever.


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## jordanmulder (Nov 12, 2011)

waikare said:


> well heres a question why are so may ozzie snakes overseas


That's a dumb question what has that got to do with it? 
For your information Green anole are now threatened by exotic anoles... There are Burms in florida the are Cane toads here how much more proof do you want?
and if you want to post again answer my question in the previous post before you post.


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## Recharge (Nov 12, 2011)

K3nny said:


> ok, the point has been made, but have you considered pure ignorance or misinformation on the OP's part? There's yet (at least from skimming) to be a substantial argument for exotics(and for good reason, as my previous post)
> 
> Heck the website linked, in all intents and purposes was the government's website listing whats legal and whatnot, so i'd say thats a pretty good indicator on the miss(or lack of)information on his part.
> 
> ...



can you point out anywhere I've "taken it out" on anyone? no, you can't because I haven't, I've used firm language to get across the seriousness of the issue, but I've attacked no one in the slightest.
you're far more likely to get worse for getting pulled up for a speeding ticket


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I actually have zero interest in exotics, and I hope theyre never allowed here, and I doubt they will be.
> When you think about it, people who want exotics are overlooking our amazing wildlife and becoming greedy for other things, but thats just human nature. We'll naturally want what we cant have.
> I believe the consequences would be too devastating if it was allowed, and for what? Just so some people can keep a ball python?
> The last thing we need is another invasive amphibian or reptile to stuff up our unique ecosystem.



your not really 12 are you?


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## jordanmulder (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I actually have zero interest in exotics, and I hope theyre never allowed here, and I doubt they will be.
> When you think about it, people who want exotics are overlooking our amazing wildlife and becoming greedy for other things, but thats just human nature. We'll naturally want what we cant have.
> I believe the consequences would be too devastating if it was allowed, and for what? Just so some people can keep a ball python?
> The last thing we need is another invasive amphibian or reptile to stuff up our unique ecosystem.


Hit the nail on the head Alex!


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## waikare (Nov 12, 2011)

im not for allowing exoctics im just wondering how so escaped the country


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## saximus (Nov 12, 2011)

waikare said:


> im not for allowing exoctics im just wondering how so escaped the country



The same way the exotics that are here now got here...


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## cypptrkk90 (Nov 12, 2011)

in before the OP announces that he trolled everyone by making this thread just to cause havoc and start huge fight leaving everyone dumbstruck and confused haha.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

America allowed their importation in the same way we used to allow it for birds, im sure they have some regrets now though


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 12, 2011)

waikare said:


> im not for allowing exoctics im just wondering how so escaped the country



asylum seekers....i know a guy who knows a guy who is brother to a guy who can get any aussie python a seat on a boat for about $500


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## jordanmulder (Nov 12, 2011)

waikare said:


> im not for allowing exoctics im just wondering how so escaped the country


ok then sorry mate, my apologies...


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## dihsmaj (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Waikare you CANT import birds.


http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/wildlife-trade/lists/import/pubs/live-import-list.pdf



Incorrect.


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

There are aussie snakes over here in America because there weren't always such rules and regulations in place. Just about every reptile Australia has, America has. We have Beardies, Blue tongue skinks, Carpet pythons, Scrub pythons, Ackies, and so on and so on. Hell, in some zoos, we even have Perenties. I don't think I have ever seen one for sell though. I believe that is why we have so many Australian reptiles. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Aus stopped exporting and importing wildlife in the 1970's? There are so many people over here breeding Morelia and other Australian snakes that it isn't even funny. Right now I can go buy an Inland Taipan for $5k.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Its not quite that simple though, the ones you can import are pigeon and fowl, in terms of exotic pet birds the inly way you can import one is for it have been your pet for a minimum period(think its either 1 or 2 years iff the top of ky head) you need to prove its a household pet and you can only import ONE. So no one will be able to bring over their aviary full of breeding birds. 

So yes there is a loophole but its not designed to allow for people from aus to order animals from oerseas, its for people making a permanent move to aus who want to bring a pet with them.


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## Fang101 (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I actually have zero interest in exotics, and I hope theyre never allowed here, and I doubt they will be.
> When you think about it, people who want exotics are overlooking our amazing wildlife and becoming greedy for other things, but thats just human nature. We'll naturally want what we cant have.
> I believe the consequences would be too devastating if it was allowed, and for what? Just so some people can keep a ball python?
> The last thing we need is another invasive amphibian or reptile to stuff up our unique ecosystem.



Agree completely with you snakeluvver. I especially find that "We'll naturaly want what we can't have" common in people. 

With the way things are going in OZ allowing exotic reptiles is never going to happen (which is a good thing) so quit trying, native oz animals are already suffering from the imported animals people have already introduced.


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## snakeluvver (Nov 12, 2011)

maddog-1979 said:


> your not really 12 are you?


I'm actually a 48 year old man living in my mothers basement


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

Recharge said:


> can you point out anywhere I've "taken it out" on anyone? no, you can't because I haven't, I've used firm language to get across the seriousness of the issue, but I've attacked no one in the slightest.
> you're far more likely to get worse for getting pulled up for a speeding ticket



ahh glad we got that cleared, then i believe i do owe you and apology 



snakeluvver said:


> I'm actually a 48 year old man living in my mothers basement



totally doesn't make you sound like a predator


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## snakeluvver (Nov 12, 2011)

Fang101 said:


> With the way things are going in OZ allowing exotic retiles is never going to happen (which is a good thing) so quit trying, native oz animals are already suffering from the inported animals people have already introduced.


Yeah, no offense to the OP and people who agree with him, but the people who're pushing for exotics to be legalized generally have no authority, so it wont happen. Its just an idea that theyre trying to push for and have to solid plan or reasoning to do so.


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## maddog-1979 (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I'm actually a 48 year old man living in my mothers basement



aaahh shoot.....no good offering you a lift home from school then,lol

please done arrest me secret nazi police, it was a joke


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

Nonnative Reptiles

That is just a list of the non native reptiles in Florida because of the fact that someone thought they were cute and then didn't want them any more or someone got greedy and wanted to breed them and no one else wanted them so they let them go into the wild. 

Florida Wildlife Extension at UF/IFAS

That is just a little article letting you know about how much it cost each year to deal with non native plants and wildlife. 

Like I said before. Do we have exotics over here in America? Yes. In the end is it really worth all the damage to the native wildlife and ecosystems? I don't really think it is. If you want something be prepared for the trouble that it brings with it.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 12, 2011)

There still hasn't been one good reason why exotics should be allowed. The only reason the supporters for it, have come up with it is that exotic birds are sometimes allowed. There needs to be a better excuse if you really want them to be allowed. 

I think the only reason people want exotics is that they are small minded & are probably amazed by shiny things.


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## Recharge (Nov 12, 2011)

shiny? where WHERE!!! I WANT IT NOW!  

oh look! a puppy!! he he he he heeeeee!


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## Morelia4life (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't understand why some people have so much determination when it comes to getting exotics. I mean I grew up with exotics as a kid. I have had everything from Chameleons to Carpet pythons to Ball pythons to Sudan Plated lizards so exotics are really what I know. If you have never had exotics before why is there such a deep passion or whatever it is to own them? I mean on one hand I am telling those people to be happy with what they have but on the other hand, all I have is exotics. Right now all I own is a Coastal Carpet and a Leopard Gecko native to Pakistan. 

Being an American, do I even have a right to voice my opinion on this thread? I just don't want to see Australia become like America. I grew up reading about Australia and always wanting to move there, I guess that is one of the reasons why I love the Morelia and Aspidites genus so much. If I can't live there at least I can have a few species from there to call my own. Like me, I could have King snakes and Rat snakes and other native colubrids but I choose carpet pythons because they have an awesome personality, they are beautiful in their natural colors, they get a good size without being too big and they are smart snakes.


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## PhilK (Nov 12, 2011)

This thread lost all its interest when the OP stopped posting - now it's just a bunch of people agreeing with each other *yawn*.

There's no need to legalise exotics, they are already here. Maybe the OP has the same mind frame as people who want to legalise marijuana - it's already here in bulk, people are using it left right and centre so why not make it legal? Maybe he is thinking there are already illegal exotics here, and plenty of legal exotics here (birds etc) so why not legalise it?

Either way I voted no because it's never going to happen... though I would like a panther chameleon..




Morelia4life said:


> I mean on one hand I am telling those people to be happy with what they have but on the other hand, all I have is exotics. Right now all I own is a Coastal Carpet and a Leopard Gecko native to Pakistan.



So you're contradicting yourself and making a redundant point? Or am I missing something?


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## GeckoRider (Nov 13, 2011)

PhilK said:


> \
> 
> 
> So you're contradicting yourself and making a redundant point? Or am I missing something?




I think what there trying to say is Australia should stay pure and that if you live overseas Australian reptiles are the Exotics that everyone wants... 

I think its just another case of we want what we cant have... And trust me i want what i cant have... I still don't get why people have against owning exotics legally... Everyone by now should know that Exotics are here in Australia as we speak... Its not really a question of should Australia get these animals its now about making rules and regulations for them.. if it was legal We would have rules and restrictions But since it's out right banned People are going to own them without any rules, Restrictions, Ect.... That is the problem at hand...

Dont Be flaming me That's my opinion if you disagree that's great.. Where would we be without Debates...


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## elogov (Nov 13, 2011)

You are so ungrateful appreciate what we have & be thank-full.


Ps, Tassie love you're work totally agree to allowing tas to keep pythons.


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## GeckoRider (Nov 13, 2011)

elogov said:


> You are so ungrateful appreciate what we have & be thank-full.
> 
> 
> Ps, Tassie love you're work totally agree to allowing tas to keep pythons.



How is it ungrateful? noone has said that Australian Wildlife is not good enough...


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## elogov (Nov 13, 2011)

GeckoRider said:


> How is it ungrateful? noone has said that Australian Wildlife is not good enough...




Well you're either Ungrateful or GREEDY, given you're trying to import you're own lovely idea of owning something from foreign lands whilst domestic species can't even go 240km to tasmania which is left with almost nothing (compared to us) & isn't nececciary complaining either.

Appreciate you're cup being half full & good luck.


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 13, 2011)

Still waiting on a compelling argument as to why we should allow exotics into Australia. I will say though if you are having a hard time convincing reptile enthusiasts to allow exotics in, you will have a lot more trouble convincing the government. Atleast we like reptile, they don't. Yes I think exotics look great but I would much rather preserve what we have then risk destroying it. 

Can I ask all those that voted Yes to explain why they said Yes?


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## elogov (Nov 13, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> Still waiting on a compelling argument as to why we should allow exotics into Australia. I will say though if you are having a hard time convincing reptile enthusiasts to allow exotics in, you will have a lot more trouble convincing the government. Atleast we like reptile, they don't. Yes I think exotics look great but I would much rather preserve what we have then risk destroying it.
> 
> Can I ask all those that voted Yes to explain why they said Yes?



Because apparently our breeders aren't keeping it interesting enough to satisfy the growing needs of something new.


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## GeckoRider (Nov 13, 2011)

elogov said:


> Well you're either Ungrateful or GREEDY, given you're trying to import you're own lovely idea of owning something from foreign lands whilst domestic species can't even go 240km to tasmania which is left with almost nothing (compared to us) & isn't nececciary complaining either.
> 
> Appreciate you're cup being half full & good luck.



So you don't want exotics to preserve the environment.. But yet you want to send mainland pythons to Tasmanian?

here's a solution's how about we make all reptiles illegal you Know to "Preserver The Environment" A snake from the north being wild in the south... End of the world Situation there.... Same thing as having pythons from another Country do you think there going to grow wings and fly around eating everything in sight? no.. They will eat mice like all other pythons (small pythons I'm talking about) 

Why have a Glass half full if you could fill it....


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## abnrmal91 (Nov 13, 2011)

I really think it is a case of people want what they can't have. Unfortunately people don't seem to realise what short sighted ideas can lead too. Atleast DEC or what ever it is, got it right for once. It's not often I agree with their laws/polices/stupid ideas but banning exotics is a good one. 

Yes I am sure most people know someone who keeps exotics if it's a friend or a friend of a friend. We all know someone. We have to understand that they are here illegally, I accept that. We can only hope these people get caught and brought to justice, however this shouldn't mean that more are brought in. 

Please be happy with what we have. 

I would hope that if the sad day come where Australia let's exotics in legally, that licensing would pick up the slack. I think the biggest problem with the epidemic in america is that exotics of any kind are too freely available. One only has to look on a American reptile website to see king cobras for 200-400 dollars with minimal licensing if any. It seems that an understanding of the skill required to keep such species is lost in the whole idea of "oh look what I have got". Not only is it the case with venomous snakes it's the same for retics. In all seriousness as a general rep keeper, why does one needs to keep a retic/boa/anaconda?These species are definitely underestimated, they are sold to inexperienced keepers who don't realise their full potential as a dangerous animal. 

Hell I don't trust my Bredli and he is only 1.6m let alone something 4m+ weighing in excess of 30kg

I would also ask those that think exotics should be allowed what would you allow in and what would remain banned. Would it be a case of everything or a more limited selection. From my understanding a problem that seems to be occurring in America is due to the exotic venomous snakes kept by the average keeper. When they get bitten it creates a problem of which antivenom to use if any. Antivenom is normally kept for the snakes that may be found in the local area. They don't generally keep black mamba antivenom for a snske which is found halfway around they world incase some idiot gets bitten by their so-called pet.


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## kawasakirider (Nov 13, 2011)

elogov said:


> You are so ungrateful appreciate what we have & be thank-full.
> 
> 
> Ps, Tassie love you're work totally agree to allowing tas to keep pythons.



Makes no sense to be an advocate for pythons in Tasmania when you aren't one for exotics in Australia. They're (pythons and other reptiles) exotic to Tasmania and would have an effect on the environment down there if they escaped and flourished.


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## mad_at_arms (Nov 13, 2011)

Conserve what we have.


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## GeckoRider (Nov 13, 2011)

It would definitely have to be limit I think it should be made very difficult just to get a exotic python and near impossible to get a Venomous snake... say 5 years of venomous snake keeping and a mandatory Class an test... 

Also if exotics where livable i think they should have there own license... Also with a test to make sure we are capable to take care of them and to make sure they don't escape... I stand by my Opinion of Exotics being legalized in Australia... But in saying that it should be no easy task in obtaining one... The amount of effort that should need to get an "Exotic License" would weed out the people who just want it to show it off then get bored with it...


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## RickLeekong (Nov 13, 2011)

As much as i love looking at the exotics, i think there big trouble, we have gorgeous reptiles native to our country, there's no need, and besides, for me it would feel very unnatural having an exotic over something native that has evolved in this country for millions of years. It annoys me people have already imported them here illegally.


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## uromastyx (Nov 13, 2011)

Good Luck mate! Its gonna be something if you can get ppl to move an inch from this campaign. Im from canada and we've had ppl trying to implement a venomous license, like the one you have here, for years... but to no avail. But heaps of ppl still keep them, just under the govs noses. Anyways, while aussie has a vast collection of wild life, it wouldnt be so bad to have some legal foreign animals, given ppl just don't release them into the wild.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 13, 2011)

We already have corns snakes regularly popping up all over the place, imagine how much worse it would be if exotic keeping became common place amongst reptile keepers.

Mind you though I think illegal species are more likely to be released as the people who keep them already lack certain morals and its not like its easy for them to sell it when they are sick of it.
I don't want any exotics in the country but as they are already here maybe having a licensing system will reduce the amount being released????????


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## Colin (Nov 13, 2011)

these sort of threads have been done to death and after 10 pages Im putting this one to rest.
R.I.P.


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## Colin (Nov 28, 2011)

the thing is no matter how many species are/were available we wouldn't be happy or satisfied and would want more.. especially the stuff we couldn't have.. maybe there's a lesson in human nature there somewhere?


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