# do you believe?



## Kaotic (Aug 18, 2006)

does anyone on here believe in ghosts or believe they have seen one?

I'll share my experienced. My parents house is haunted. It was built in the 1860's and the kitchen is the only remaining only original room. at night you can see a man standing next to the window looking out of it. at first it hought i was crazy, but my parents and friends of mine that slept over use to see it as well.


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## wil (Aug 18, 2006)

WHO YA GUNA CALL?


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## wil (Aug 18, 2006)

GHOSTBUSTERS!


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## Simple (Aug 18, 2006)

ghost busters!!! He he


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## RevDaniel (Aug 18, 2006)

I cannot say i do not believe in such things but i will say that i kep an open mind and willing to accept that it might be true


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## sevrum (Aug 18, 2006)

gfgjfjfjvbvbgfbnfgnfn :twisted: :?: :shock:


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## Parko (Aug 18, 2006)

Perhaps there is a hot female ghost walking round naked each night infront of the window next door? Bloody pervert peeping tom ghosts, have they no morals?
Don't suppose your Mum or Dad or their friends thought to take a picture of this repetative phenomena, nah ofcourse they didn't. It can't be viewed on film, it relies on ones active imagination.


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## Simple (Aug 18, 2006)

Its working for me.


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## serpenttongue (Aug 18, 2006)

I believe. Try watching reality show Most Haunted on channel W, Austar. You'll believe too!!


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## AntaresiaLady (Aug 18, 2006)

Had similar experiences. 

You're not insane Kaotic.


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## olivehydra (Aug 18, 2006)

not good with my science these days, but didnt someone once say that energy cannot be created or destroyed??? Perhaps Newton, and something to do with laws of thermodynamics?

BTW, yes.


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## Kaotic (Aug 18, 2006)

lol, i never thought i was! i thought i was at first so i said to my best friend when i was 16 "i think our house is haunted" and she goes "oh my god, the man in the kitchen"...thats when i knew i wasn't crazy!


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## cheazy (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



serpenttongue said:


> I believe. Try watching reality show Most Haunted on channel W, Austar. You'll believe too!!



Pffffffff... if ever there was a more rigged show! but saying that, i have heard alot of stories from ppl i no that really got me thinkin, so cant say that i dont believe but i am pretty sceptical


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## dynea (Aug 18, 2006)

I've never seen but i beleive...

My mum has some scarey ability to get feelings about the future.

A sad story is that one day when my mum was cleaning my friends office at work,
she felt awful and told her about her feeling and said to be carefull that something felt wrong.
That Weekend she was hit by a drunk driver and killed. It was her birthday and she left behind a son.


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## pythoness (Aug 18, 2006)

Have seen, have touched, have been touched, have spoken to . since i was a little girl about 3 i had seen them, not all the time or everywhere, but now and then,,, seen other things you just wouldn't believe even if i tolod you. and yes i have captured some on film ,,,,i will have a friend scan the pic in for me,,,, it will blow your mind,,,,, i don't have a scanner, but when i get to one i will freak you all out BIG time


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## Kaotic (Aug 18, 2006)

that is a very sad story.


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## Simple (Aug 18, 2006)

My problem is every time I think I have seen something, within a day or two I have talked myself into believing it was just my VERY overactive imagination. I've had the bad feelings and something has happened (although not to that degree) and known when someone is going to call or when a song is on the radio, but I just put it down to being a coincidence - not psychotic oops I mean psychic!


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## star11 (Aug 18, 2006)

Of course there are ghosts, where do you think the idea came from....think of all the reports, do you think they are all crazy. 

They are as real as we are.


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## Australis (Aug 18, 2006)

star11 said:


> Of course there are ghosts, where do you think the idea came from....think of all the reports, do you think they are all crazy.
> 
> They are as real as we are.




Oh yeah i did think of it from that point of view.......


And Mermaids and dragons and loch ness monster.. So many reports..
they couldnt be wrong or crazy...

And Aliens and there anal probes on poor white trash middle America, this must be true also........

Matt


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## tyrone (Aug 18, 2006)

I'm a tool

[edited by moderator, last warning about personal [email protected]]


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## Simple (Aug 18, 2006)

Oh but he's funny!


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## pythoness (Aug 18, 2006)

But mermaids and dragons ARE real,,,,,,,,,, i've seen them


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## tyrone (Aug 18, 2006)

me too .....


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## Kaotic (Aug 18, 2006)

i wish i could see mermaids, dragons ad fairies


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## steevo (Aug 18, 2006)

Ghosts are simply one of a thousand different ways that spirits can manifest or cross the line from the spiritual into the natural. I've had plenty of spiritual encounters including first hand experience in the area of "deliverance" which is the ministry of casting out demons.

The matrix is a clasic example but look at every true mythic movie or story and they all point to a much bigger picture or situation unfolding than what we percieve from our viewpoint. There is a battle goin on.


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## Australis (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



pythoness said:


> But mermaids and dragons ARE real,,,,,,,,,, i've seen them




Yeah at the Zoo...

So much pseudoscience is used to prove these things to be fact..... The real science behind why people think its real is far more intresting.



Matt


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## star11 (Aug 18, 2006)

not sure about anal probes dude....not my cup of tea but whatever floats your boat.


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## Australis (Aug 18, 2006)

steevo said:


> Ghosts are simply one of a thousand different ways that spirits can manifest or cross the line from the spiritual into the natural. I've had plenty of spiritual encounters including first hand experience in the area of "deliverance" which is the ministry of casting out demons.
> 
> The matrix is a clasic example but look at every true mythic movie or story and they all point to a much bigger picture or situation unfolding than what we percieve from our viewpoint. There is a battle goin on.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

You have got to be kiding me.

Matt


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## Veredus (Aug 18, 2006)

Aliens are a mathematical probability, probably not little green men with anal probes but it is highly likely that there are a number of planets in the universe with life on them. As for ghosts Im going to say I believe as Ive had a few strange encounters and there is no real scientific evidence to say they dont exist and some scientific evidence that supports the idea "Energy and matter can be neither created nor destroyed, it simply changes form" is one example.


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## lilith (Aug 18, 2006)

Of course i believe in them, i live with one :lol: seriously...


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## dynea (Aug 18, 2006)

my mum dreamt that my dads eye had poped out of his head, and the next day he got a cob web in it and it swelled up boodshot with infection...yuck.

she seems to do things like it all the time.


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## Australis (Aug 18, 2006)

Veredus said:


> Aliens are a mathematical probability, probably not little green men with anal probes but it is highly likely that there are a number of planets in the universe with life on them. As for ghosts Im going to say I believe as Ive had a few strange encounters and there is no real scientific evidence to say they dont exist and some scientific evidence that supports the idea "Energy and matter can be neither created nor destroyed, it simply changes form" is one example.




I dont doubt the existance of life on other planets etc...

But the lame sterotypes of little green men, dont hold up well..

Much the same as a few hunderd years ago, except they used a different image instead of the pop culture aliens


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## cris (Aug 18, 2006)

I have personally killed atleast 100 ghosts, i keep them in an empty can of beer.



> Aliens are a mathematical probability, probably not little green men with anal probes but it is highly likely that there are a number of planets in the universe with life on them.


I dont know about the men with anal probes but i have seen plenty of alien(non Australian) chicks with anal probes, on film too. It amazing stuff :lol:


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## Xenogenesis (Aug 18, 2006)

I do not belive, nor disbelive, I keep an open mind


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## Glimmerman (Aug 18, 2006)

I've had my fair share of spiritual encounters. If you think it's all BS go to the old North Head Quarantine Station in Sydney and do a night tour :shock:


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## pythoness (Aug 18, 2006)

Oh Matt so sad, so cynical, do a ghost tour of boggo rd jail, it will make you a believer very quickly.


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## snakes4me2 (Aug 18, 2006)

Hell yeah i do, have had a couple of wierd things happen.

I tell ya i will never do another one of those sayonce things or how eva ya spell it
thats very scary


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## AnteUp (Aug 18, 2006)

I believe, have yet to see for my own eyes though.


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## pixie (Aug 19, 2006)

> I do not belive, nor disbelive, I keep an open mind


sums up my opinion too,


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## AntaresiaLady (Aug 19, 2006)

I saw a glass rise two feet above our ouija board one night when we were doing a seance. 

Now that was freaky- and seen by 8 other people, some of which didn't believe in ghosts. 

Don't know how y'all would explain that one.


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## cris (Aug 19, 2006)

> I saw a glass rise two feet above our ouija board one night when we were doing a seance.
> 
> Now that was freaky- and seen by 8 other people, some of which didn't believe in ghosts.
> 
> Don't know how y'all would explain that one.


acid? mushies? nah to be honest you got me stumped :lol:


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## AntaresiaLady (Aug 19, 2006)

No acid, no mushies, not even a glass of alcohol. 

No one was high or drunk, or mentally ill.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 19, 2006)

string??, power of suggestion??


> acid? mushies? nah to be honest you got me stumped


spooky though..


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## mertle (Aug 19, 2006)

I believe in ghosts, and have done seances, some work?? some don't.

Matt, just because you don't believe doesn't mean everyone else is wrong for believing in them, each to their own opinion. They arn't stupid or irational, just have different life experience.

Go onto iTunes and look up ghosts in the podcast section, they are internet radio shows, I get about 20 of them! Very interesting stuff on there. PM me if you would like more info, instructions etc......


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## tan (Aug 19, 2006)

i didn't believe...., until i saw one and this was verified by my dad. I often have those "know something before it happens" moments. I think maybe some people are more in tune with these things than others. If we all knew it to be true, what would be the fun in that, there would be no facination with the topic.


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## shelby (Aug 19, 2006)

i do belive, having seen them, been touched on the shoulder, spun around, and had an Ouija board moving of its own accord, i think i have to belive or there are some seriously weird things going on that noone can explain


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## tyrone (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



mertle said:


> Matt, just because you don't believe doesn't mean everyone else is wrong for believing in them



Yes it does it means everyone else is wrong and weird for believing them :twisted: lol


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## Rennie (Aug 19, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Anyone here read Carl Sagan's Demon haunted world, science as a candle in the dark?

I have heard many stories and did believe but this book will make you think a lot more sceptically about a lot of things like for example some claim that there are so many stories that it must be true, well did you know that aproximately 5% of the world's population is schitzophrenic to some extent? Thats about 300 000 000 schitophrenics in the world, do you still believe all the stories?

I now only believe that there is a small possibility it may still be true, I keep an open but very sceptical mind.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 19, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Can I ask those that do believe in ghosts a couple of questions:

What do you think they are?
Where do you think they come from?


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## pythoness (Aug 19, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

they are wandering in a type of limbo that slips in and out of our dimention, and can be released to the "light" when they are ready.... some are people who don't know they are dead, some are people who have died and believed before hand that they would haunt..... with the incredible power of the human mind is it any wonder what happens to us after we die is what we expect????
it is true that energy cannot be distroyed, and our consiousness is electricall energy that is released when our 'shell' gives out. 
science is now trying to explain things like other dimentions and ghosts.... many have been captured on film, audio and electograph.
as a Hpps i have dealt with many hauntings, some are delusions of paranoid minds, but many are real manifestations from the "other side"
i have had to perform exorcisims on peoples houses that have been heavily haunted, and let me tell you, they are real, as real as you and i,,,, but like air, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.


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## Moreliaman (Aug 19, 2006)

When I was young my granny told me that if you believe in ghosts you'll see them, if you don’t then you won’t! ...Haven’t seen one yet! :wink:


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## Australis (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



pythoness said:


> Oh Matt so sad, so cynical, do a ghost tour of boggo rd jail, it will make you a believer very quickly.



Why am i sad?

Would taking a break from reality make me happy?


Matt


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## tyrone (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



MattQld83 said:


> pythoness said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Matt so sad, so cynical, do a ghost tour of boggo rd jail, it will make you a believer very quickly.
> ...




Hahahaha................... UR ALL MENTAL.................. 

/me Hands out the straight jackets :twisted:


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## Australis (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



Rennie said:


> 5% of the world's population is schitzophrenic to some extent? Thats about 300 000 000 schitophrenics in the world, do you still believe all the stories?




Are you sure, my scripter teacher told me people with mental illness were possesed ny the devil. :roll: 


Matt


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## Moreliaman (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



tan said:


> I often have those "know something before it happens" moments. I think maybe some people are more in tune with these things than others..



OMG! that is so true, its like....this morning when i woke up i thought ....."im going to go to the bathroom and have a wash and then get dressed"..........and you know what...?...i did !,,, then i thought........"im going to go into the kitchen and make a cup of tea with 2 slices of toast".....and you know what?!......i had cornflakes instead !.........just goes to show it doesnt work every time ! :roll:


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

I guess it doesn't really matter what you believe, when you have seen something it wouldn't matter if every other person on the planet didn't believe. 
I was driving along one night with my wife in the car and at the same moment we looked at each other and said 'did you see that ? ' On the side of the road was a 'woman' that appeared to be made of mist but was still very obviously a womans shape. 
We used to live in a farmhouse built in 1712 and although I never saw anything my mother and brother both saw the resident inhabitant.
Like I said I am happy for anyone not to believe but you can't deny to yourself what you have seen.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



SnakeWrangler said:


> Can I ask those that do believe in ghosts a couple of questions:
> 
> What do you think they are?
> Where do you think they come from?


Does anyone want to have a go at these?

I would also add, how can there be a living thing that can't be seen of felt and cannot be proven to exist?


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

I have no idea where they come from.
Who says they are a living thing ? I think the whole point is that they AREN'T living things.


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## newtosnakes (Aug 21, 2006)

i also believe and have had many experiences that only serve to further cement my beliefs. My 3 year old son has also been seeing the same lady in our house since he was born. i believe she is looking out for him and keeps him safe...

too many things have happened for me to be able to say that it is not true. a lot of my friends and family have also had experiences.


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## JasonL (Aug 21, 2006)

If I believed in Ghost's it would probably stop me from wandering around the bush by my self in the middle of the night, so I'm glad I don't.


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## mertle (Aug 21, 2006)

I believe spirits are our energy left here when our boddies die. 

Sometimes it is just concentrated and stays as a ghost or haunting.

If we don't believe in what we can't see then there must be no god or similar things, just because you caan't see it or havn't experienced it yourself doesn't mean it cannot possibly be true?

Look back to the old days when the earth was flat and and the sun revolved around our planet and we didn't even know about gravity, perhaps one day it will be well known about ghosts being true and we will learn to live with it like our round earth.


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## waruikazi (Aug 21, 2006)

I have seen, or thought i have anyway. The most terrifying experience of my life bar none. I didn't before i saw mine but now i think they are real, or as real as they can be.

As for what they are and where they come from, I don't know and don't really want to know. It would make no difference to me if i knew everything about them. That and i like the mysteriousness about not knowing and having to let your mind wander.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

Boa, I guess I should say "concious" rather than living things, people have been touched, taunted and also cared for by these things so they have life in some sense. If a ghost is not concious then it can not interact in a meaningful way (ie. touch things) and therefore is nothing more than an anomaly, not "real" in the sense that those who have experienced them, think of them.

Mertle, the point I was going to get to is that if you believe in ghosts, then you have everything you need to believe in God. It would be hypocritical to say that there are real and concious "spirit" beings around but no God, unless you say the "spirits" are not concious, but then you must deny all accounts of them interacting with people.

Of course it cannot be proven, but I believe I know where they come from, they come from God and it is a persons conciousness (or spirit) and lives on after the physical body dies.


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm not sure about that, I don't believe in God, never have and probably never will but I don't see why they have to go hand in hand to be honest.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

Do you believe that ghosts are concious, that they can think and act rational or irrational?


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

I have no idea, I have seen one not talked to one.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

:lol:


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## elias (Aug 21, 2006)

i am atheist and very skeptical but my girlfriend often sees spirits or feels there prescence only a couple of nites ago we where lying in my bed and i was telling her that it all coincidence and just as she was tellin me she felt sumthin my computer turned on.... this is givving me goosbumbs just writing it and after that o got up and turned the computer off ...so i said alright lets test this so i said IF THERE IS A SPIRIT AN ENERGY WHATEVER TURN THE COMP BACK ON AND that very instant it did since then i can say im a little les sceptical....


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

Seriously though, the only thing I can say with absolute certainty is that they exist and I know that because of my experience. 
I am, usually, a rational person who doesn't drink much and doesn't take mind altering drugs. I know what I saw but can't comment on the state of mind of the 'spirit'.
From what I can see belief in a God is not a prerequisite for being able to see ghosts. I am a proud devout Atheist.


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## Australis (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



mertle said:


> Look back to the old days when the earth was flat and and the sun revolved around our planet and we didn't even know about gravity, perhaps one day it will be well known about ghosts being true and we will learn to live with it like our round earth.



People will believe what they want to believe Mertle.
There are Christian groups in the USA (and also elsewhere) who dont believe in "gravity".


Sure people used to think the world was flat and the Earth was the centre of the universe, and people thought dragons ruled the skys... etc ..etc..

But the more we learn and researched the more mankind understood his world. And the Fact that it wasnt created by any of the "Gods" that though out history have been used to explain the unexplained.


Of course this fact isnt as nice as thinking being a good boy or girl will get you a place in one of the many heavens available, and live forever.. :lol:


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## mertle (Aug 21, 2006)

Hi Snakewrangler, 

God is a belief made by man, weather we believe in him or not doesn't really have much to do with ghosts as such.

We have made the connection of spirits to god but that is the christian belief, there are many beliefs that also connect spirits with a deity, and might I add, that I think we all believe in the same sort of thing, just in different ways.

I never knock someone for their belief but I do think that spirits don't need to be connected only to god in such a way.

Many peple that hve seen or believe in ghosts or the paranormal don't necicerrily believe in the christian god, I know quite a few of them and can add myself to the equasion.


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## waruikazi (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

A bit off topic but eternal life scares me more than death.... can anyone relate to that? Just curious


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*

There are plenty of women that don't believe in gravity.



MattQld83 said:


> There are Christian groups in the USA (and also elsewhere) who dont believe in "gravity".


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## Australis (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*

:shock: Thats understandable i guess




boa said:


> There are plenty of women that don't believe in gravity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## elias (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

id like to retract my previouse statment i am not atheist i am agnostic just so used to saying atheist ....... on another note i know a place where giant lizzerds still rule the earth....GO THE KOMMODOS


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## elias (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

id like to retract my previouse statment i am not atheist i am agnostic just so used to saying atheist ....... on another note i know a place where giant lizzerds still rule the earth....GO THE KOMMODOS


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## Australis (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



wil said:


> WHO YA GUNA CALL?




Myth Busters :wink:


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## peterescue (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Ok ok, I might as well confess. Kaotic, I come over at night and stand in the dark in your kitchen. Its not a ghost, its just another psychotic herper.


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## Kaotic (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

lol peterescue thought it may of been you!


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## waruikazi (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

This thread has made me think alot about the experience i had. Wether what i saw was a ghost or not i can not describe the ABSOLUTE TERROR that i felt. I wish my experience was a good as some of yours have been.


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## Parko (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Once when i was hiking through the bush i heard a beautiful though eerie sound, i was drawn to this sound like a moth to a light, i came to a river and discovered the source of the sound, 3 amazingly seductive sirens were bathing eachothers naked bodies in the water, i tried to resist but it was hopeless as by this time they had me in a state of irrational and totally uncontrollable lust. They beckoned me and when i came to them i came, they weren't satisfied by this and soon had me worked into a frenzy again, they used my body for their selfish pleasure for 3 days straight, i felt like a rag doll at the end of it, it was trully horrible and i wouldn't wish it on any of you though i would wish it on me again because such is my nature that i would suffer in place of others.


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## waruikazi (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

LOL parko. Sounds absolutely horrible!


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## Kaotic (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Oh i bet that was the most terrifing experience in your life!


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## Parko (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Thankyou for sympathising waruikazi and Kaotic, i am still traumatised by it and would really rather forget the whole darned sordid experience, i really can't talk about it anymore. Just horrible.


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## Magpie (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Parko, when hiking DON'T EAT THE MUSHROOMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BeardyBen (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

hi Everyone,
I guess its just like anything , if you havent personally seen ghosts or had any experiences with them then you are going to be a bit skeptical. I have had several encounters with spirits some harmless others that were extremely threatening. some of them are things that I will not discuss because they are personal to me. but one experience I have had recently is in my old flat in enmore NSW. I woke up suddenly with the feeling that someone was in my room i sat up in bed and to my horror there was a man standing over me at first I thought someone had broken in so i jumped up ready to defend myself, it was then that I realized it was a ghost I could not see his face but he had long dark wavey hair and a long raggy trenchcoat style jacket I tried talking to him asking him what he wanted he dit not reply but started to wave his arms around. I then asked him to leave which he did. that experience lasted about 30 seconds and there was no way i just imagined it as I was awake and stayed awake for quite some time after it was all over.. I have never drunk alcohol or tried drugs and am quite sane. this experience is just one of many I have had.


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## Kaotic (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

my dad often worked away from home. at times when mum was in bed she would feel a heavy presence lay in the bed next to her...it then used to push her out of bed. also in my old bedroom, something used to turn me stereo on during the night and tickle my feet...once we got the house blessed by a preist it stopped.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Boa, believing in God is not a prerequisite for seeing ghosts, of course. But if "spirit" beings exist and you discover that they are a concious being, then you would believe in the same thing that God is, a concious spirit being. What basis would you have to say there is no God, if he is exactly the same as something you believe in?

Matt I would like to hear these "facts" that show there is no God and he didn't create the world...

Hey mertle, I disagree that God is a belief made by man, God does not exist or cease to exist based upon what mankind think or believe. To my knowledge there is not one single culture on earth that does not have spiritual beliefs relating to something higher than ourselves, if you know of one of many please let me know I would like to read about them.

I would like to state that I USED to believe in the christian God only, I no longer do, but I do still believe that the human spirit is tied directly to God and he is its creator. I am now a universalist (not in the christian sense) in that I believe God reveals himself to each culture in his own way, God made us the way we are and could not send anyone to "hell". All people honour God wether they realise it or not, I believe there is a universal way in which God reveals himself (really it should be 'itself' but I naturally refer to it as him so there you go) and that is through nature, most call him 'mother nature' but it is still God none the less, nature has always appeared to have a sort of chaotic control about itself, things seem to work the right way, even against the odds. That is God.

I believe all people desire to honour God (and do so), you might not think of God as something personal, but when you attribute our creation to 'mother nature' you are honouring God, in fact 'mother nature' is the best concept of God because each of us are personally attached to it and at the same time it is impersonal to all of us, that is exactly what God is. People for some reason fight against the idea that God is there, but really we all see him and attribute majesty to him when we stand in awe of the creation of which we are part.

I know some people will get upset because I am saying they honour God but really they do, God is the order that brought us into being out of chaos, God is the laws that govern our world, God is 'mother nature'.

Kaotic, can you really blame the spirit from running from a preist... I would run too, I wouldn't want that holy water on me, I would sizzle like a snag on a bbq... :lol:

Flame away.


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

There is no need to flame you, I don't believe in God, there is absolutely zero proof that a God exists and until I see any.
Believe me I have no desire to 'honour God' as you put it and to ask for facts showing that God doesn't exist and facts to show he didn't create the Earth is just bizarre. 
How about you show me even one tiny bit of proof he exists or that he did create the Earth.
I am an evolutionist and unless you have some proof that no-one else seems to have I will continue to be and please don't tell me Mother Nature is in fact God, Mother Nature is a man made term that's all.
I have absolutely no problem with your beliefs but please don't tell me I actually do believe as I really don't. :wink:


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## Australis (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



SnakeWrangler said:


> Matt I would like to hear these "facts" that show there is no God and he didn't create the world...



You want to believe in what you believe, and no evidence i explain to you will change your stance. As ive tried many times with people either ignorant to science or not willing to let go the crutch that there faith gave them.
I am a Athiest, and dont have any emotional attachment to any primative myths from any of the world culture.
Im sure your right when you say each culture has its version of "god" etc.. etc..
But this hardly makes it a reality, the gods and myths of times past where used to explain things that couldnt be undestood at the time.

Even the Catholic church of all things has excepted Evolution as fact, but still holds onto God starting off..


Matt


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## mertle (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm with Boa on this one,

Snakewrangler, what you said is your belief, I have no problem with that untill you said that we all believe in god. 

I do in my own way, but not the god the christians believe in and not just one god either, there are many faccets of the god and goddess, well that's my belief anyway, 

So I could say to you that you believe in the goddess everytime you think the moon looks bright when it is full.

You wouldn't agree with me the same way that i don't agree with you. 

I also believe in evolution, how else would we have dinosaur bones? God didn't create them before man, not acording to the bible, man came first, mmmm i wonder what we tasted like to a T-Rex then? hehehhee


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## Parko (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



Magpie said:


> Parko, when hiking DON'T EAT THE MUSHROOMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Really Mags do you think the mushrooms were to blame for my 3 day sex orgy with the sirens? :lol: munch munch munch :shock: 

i believe that snakewrangler believes that Boa believes in a god that he doesn't believe in but snakewrangler does beleive in and he believes we all believe in what he believes whether we believe it or not :?


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## Retic (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Yeah that just about sums it up . :wink: 



Parko said:


> i believe that snakewrangler believes that Boa believes in a god that he doesn't believe in but snakewrangler does beleive in and he believes we all believe in what he believes whether we believe it or not :?


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## Rennie (Aug 21, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



SnakeWrangler said:


> Boa, believing in God is not a prerequisite for seeing ghosts, of course. But if "spirit" beings exist and you discover that they are a concious being, then you would believe in the same thing that God is, a concious spirit being. What basis would you have to say there is no God, if he is exactly the same as something you believe in?



Whilst I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, according to this logic, if you believe that this planet is populated by many creatures (humans, reptiles, mammals, fish, etc.) and you believe that there are other planets out there in the universe, then you have to believe that these other planets are populated in life as well. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Australis (Aug 21, 2006)

Alot of the so called "haunted" places seem to have a distory full of death and suffering, as a kid growing up on a farm, we had alot of those large mound ant nests with thew gravel on the surface. My cousin loved nothing more than stomping on the largest ant nest on the farm, this continued for a lon time before he got over it.

Thousands upon thousands of ants met there demise on that ant hill, yet no one ever saw any "ghost" ants... im baffled :wink: 


Matt


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## SLACkra (Aug 21, 2006)

Well I should be doing homework so oh what the heck,

I am agnostic, if your religious or what ever i really don't care unless it negatively affect me, thus if your a Mormon who comes to my door expect to be chased around with some sort of cross like object being sprayed with tap water while i scream "the power of Christ compels you"

In the area of spirits souls ect well my way of thinking is this; you die, you rot, you feed various animals in the food chain and end up fertilizing various plants. Chances are that that meal you just ate contained atoms that were once part of a human and part of various other living things. 

Ghost do not exist, well not in reality in your own crazy little head it may but not reality. 

well thats my 2 cents with intrest

andrew


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## hornet (Aug 21, 2006)

omg ,now u got me paranoid, i hear things and fee; a presence, damn the 'erb


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## bobthefish (Aug 21, 2006)

I lived in a house with the ghost of a little girl that had been beaten and then hung by her father about 80 years earlier, and other tihngs too. She was a real little b%^&amp;h- she used to throw stuff at us, she'd yell in your ear, and she'd call us on the phone. First she'd talk like a little girl- kinda spacey like she was confused or a bit stoned, and then her voice would go all evil, like something in the movies. Right before we moved out she even started rearranging the furntiure- and the worst tihng she'd do was lock you in a room. The place was a flat on the third floor of a subdivided house, and as it was old the doors were solid oak- when those babies locked there weren't no getting out of them. We even used to see the little brat in the house- she looked just like a normal person- you'd turn around, and she'd be there, just be looking at you with these dead, expressionless eyes. She tried to talk to other people in the house, but nothing would come out. She never said anything to me. She used to grab us on the back of the neck too- ice cold sharp fingers.

My mate was a history major at the time, and he looked the place up in the archives of the local paper, and sure enough, a girl named Elizabeth (she used to tell us her name on the phone, just before she started screaming on the phone line) had been severely beaten by her father, and then hung in the stairwell.

I will never forget laying in bed, listening to the sound of a nine-year old girl yelling "Daddy, Daddy, please don't hurt me, I love you Daddy, please don't hurt me", and then the voice going all creepy and repeating the same lines in an "exorcist" voice over and over.

Oh hell yeah, I believe LOL


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## waruikazi (Aug 21, 2006)

This thread is really starting to creep me out.... might sleep with the lights on tonight :shock: lol


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## Rennie (Aug 21, 2006)

Yeah, I think if I had bobthefish's experience I would quickly find myself believing too :shock:


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## bobthefish (Aug 21, 2006)

LOL- It's inspired me- I actually started writing about it. LOL- I'll share the first chapter with you all when I'm done LOL.


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## SLACkra (Aug 21, 2006)

i just had an idea, why have ghostbusters when you could probably just hire Trueblue to run around after the "spirit" or "ghost" in a bikini for half the price!


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## Parko (Aug 21, 2006)

My ex-wife and i used to have the lease on a really old hotel that would get snowed under in winter, at first things were okay but after some time i started seeing scary things, things which aren't to be told to the faint hearted, i used to talk to a bartender late at night, he was my companion in the lonely hours when the children were asleep. He had much to tell me, he filled my ears with the poison named hatred. Days became weeks and weeks became months, boredom set in eventually, i locked myself in a room and started writing, i typed and typed and typed, night after night i typed pages and pages, i felt bitter towards my familly and had to get my feelings out on paper. I typed over and over ''all work and no play makes Parko a dull boy'' eventually my wife discovered this and she freaked out at the hundreds of pieces of paper everywhere with those chilling words, i chased her with an axe but she locked herself in a room, over and over i chopped away at that door til it cracked and i could get my head through, i looked at her and i said ''here's Parko''. After my children killed me things got much better and i'm now considering writing a book about it. I'm going to call the book ''the Sparkling''. i'M GOING TO TYPE AND TYPE AND TYPE......


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## bobthefish (Aug 21, 2006)

Parko- don't forget your jacket if you go outside.

And if you get trapped in a hedge maze whilst carrying an axe, well.... just cut your way out.


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## Parko (Aug 21, 2006)

Ah that sounds like very sound advice bobthefish, your commonsense is shining in it's clarity, you haven't ever been a bartender in an old hotel have you?


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## bobthefish (Aug 21, 2006)

Relax Parko. You're among friends here. Your money is no good. Have a seat. Have a drink. THEY don't understand US, do they Parko?


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## peterescue (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Springs coming Parko, Video Ezy want their DVDs back now that the snows melted.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 21, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Boa, thanks for the flameless reply mate . Do you think the world is a marvelous thing? Do you not stand in awe of it? The desire to honour God is not always direct, nor is it usually percieved as honouring God. I only asked for facts from Matt because he claimed it was a fact that God had been proven false, the supposed facts were introduced, I never asked for them, I only asked that they be stated.

I can not show you or prove to you that God exists, just like you cannot prove you saw a ghost, the experience was real to you and you say ghosts are real because you have seen. I know God is real because I have seen, not in the same way you saw the ghost but in an equally real way.

Evolution could very well be the tool by which God created, believing in the possible process of creation does not negate a creator, mother nature is the term created by men to describe the unseen but apparent force working behind the scenes in nature.

I would ask that you re-read my post, I never said you believe, you yourself said you don't know if ghosts are concious, but if they were what would be your basis for saying God could not exist if he is a spirit being. That is all I said.

Matt, evolution does not rule out a creator and I do look at evidence when presented, however no evidence will go against my own personal experience, but it is the same for all people, no matter how many people tell those that have experienced ghosts, that ghosts are not real, that will not change their belief and how could it.

Mankind as a whole has an inate desire to seek out God, the vast majority of people on earth believe in a God of some kind. God is not a scapegoat to explain what cannot be understood, I strongly believe that the only reason there are so many atheists around is because they were told at some point that it was either God or evolution so they went with what could be "proven", at least to a probability that they would accept.

Mertle, to you I would ask that you re-read my post, no where did I say anything about people having to believe or that they believe wether they want to or not. You are entitled to your belief as well, I have no problems with that. I do believe in this suppossed goddess if you believe in her, she would be nothing more or less than God revealed to you, even if your God(s) have many faccets. When did I ever (in this thread or recently) oppose evolution? Evolution does not negate God, you clearly agree with me as you believe in God in your own way. I also stated that I USED to believe in the christian God only, but no longer do, why are you bringing the bible into this as though my beliefs are somehow bound to that book?

Parko, that was a good attempt at humor and it would have been funny had I actually said anything remotely like that. 

Rennie, I do believe there is other life in the universe. 



> i just had an idea, why have ghostbusters when you could probably just hire Trueblue to run around after the "spirit" or "ghost" in a bikini for half the price!


Now that is good humor. :lol:

The mistake that a lot of people make is to assume that something cannot exist unless it is provable. The problem is that we all take things we have not proven ourselves based upon the words of others all the time.


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## Jackrabbit (Aug 22, 2006)

I don't believe but I want to

I have to see before i'll believe it

Hopefully it won't scare the s#%t out of me if I do


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## JandC_Reptiles (Aug 22, 2006)

I believe in phsychic ability, infact I am able to see the future myself.

Before turning on my computer I just know there will be arguments/debates on such trivial things as the "do you believe" thread and a handful of others at any given time.


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## bobthefish (Aug 22, 2006)

Oh- this is a do you believe in God thread- I thought it was do you believe in ghosts. Pretty bloody egotistical for anyone to say they know the answer to that one. If there's a god, he's pretty urinated off with us, or he's got a pretty macabre sense of humour. After all, he did create Condoleeza Rice.


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## mertle (Aug 22, 2006)

Yeah Bobthefish, if there is a method in his madness then it's he goes about it in a strange way.

Your still saying snakewrangler that if we look at the world in all it's wonder then we are looking at a gods creation, what about the other worlds in the universe?

I believe there are other populated planets out there, how can we be the only one in millions? It just stands to reason there are more, not perhaps with humaniods like us but with some kind of life. Do they have other gods or the same one that "created our planet" 

Go the Ghosts I say! They are more sociable and don't cause as much trouble. No miriacles from them, but then again none from the other contenders for a while hey?


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## waruikazi (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



Jackrabbit said:


> I don't believe but I want to
> 
> I have to see before i'll believe it
> 
> Hopefully it won't scare the s#%t out of me if I do



Oh it will! You can count on that.

Unless someone has a good experience they want to share??? PLEASE?


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



JandC_Reptiles said:


> I believe in phsychic ability, infact I am able to see the future myself.
> 
> Before turning on my computer I just know there will be arguments/debates on such trivial things as the "do you believe" thread and a handful of others at any given time.


:lol:



bobthefish said:


> Oh- this is a do you believe in God thread- I thought it was do you believe in ghosts. Pretty bloody egotistical for anyone to say they know the answer to that one. If there's a god, he's pretty urinated off with us, or he's got a pretty macabre sense of humour. After all, he did create Condoleeza Rice.



Dictionary.com provides the following meaning:

*egotistical*
adj 1: characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance [syn: egotistic, narcissistic, self-loving] 2: characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her clothes" [syn: conceited, egotistic, self-conceited, swollen, swollen-headed, vain]

So where have I been 'egotistical'? I simply stated my belief and because you don't agree, I am being egotistical? You should learn the meaning of a word before using it.



mertle said:


> Yeah Bobthefish, if there is a method in his madness then it's he goes about it in a strange way.
> 
> Your still saying snakewrangler that if we look at the world in all it's wonder then we are looking at a gods creation, what about the other worlds in the universe?
> 
> ...


Yes mertle, I am mad and strange because I don't believe the same as you. What was the definition of egotistical again?

It makes perfect sense for me to believe that the God of our creation is the God of all other creations as well.

Again you try and push something into my beliefs that is not there, it is as if you think you are somehow making me look silly by saying that the 'other contenders' have performed no miracles recently!?! I am yet to even attempt to characterize God, I have not applied any kind of attribute to him, except for gender, but that is a habit, I always refer to things of unknown gender as 'him', most men do, just as women usually apply 'her' to the same.

If what you have portrayed in this thread is your idea of 'tolerant', then I would hate to see you being intolerant, maybe I need to provide a definition of the term 'tolerant' to help you out.



mertle said:


> Snakewrangler, what you said is your belief, I have no problem with that untill you said that we all believe in god.


Clearly this statement rings true, you are fine with my beliefs until they disagree with yours... Even though I never said all people believe in God, the point is the same, all is ok until you perceive that I am in disagreement with you, even when your perception is based upon something that has no basis in reality.

There are definately some egotistical people in this thread but I am not one of them, I have simply stated my beliefs. I never said that anyone else must believe what I believe, I say that all people desire to and do honour God wether they realise it or not, this is my belief. Do you have to believe that? Of course not, I have never and would never say you must believe what I believe.

So what of my last post? Are you just going to ignore the fact that a few of you made out as though I had said something I didn't. Do you not have the courage to openly admit that you made a boo boo, not that it matters, it doesn't take a genius to read my posts and see that I never made any claim that I have to be right or that anyone has to believe what I do.


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## Retic (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*

Actually that is exactly what you are saying, by saying you believe we all honour God you in fact are saying we must believe it, you may not realise it but you are :wink: 
I DO NOT AND HAVE NO DESIRE TO HONOUR A GOD. 



SnakeWrangler said:


> I say that all people desire to and do honour God wether they realise it or not, this is my belief. Do you have to believe that? Of course not, I have never and would never say you must believe what I believe.


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## rexs1 (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

I have seen a few ghosts

They came from my darwins..........

:lol: :lol: :lol: .

nick


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: RE: do you believe?*



boa said:


> you may not realise it but you are :wink:


I like it. :lol:

Boa, you do not have to believe in God, nor do you have to believe that you honour God, that is my belief, not yours.


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## mertle (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Perhaps it just read wrong there, But hey, if we all agreed on everything what a boring place this world would be!


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

Mertle, what a boring post, I was hoping for more action!! :lol:

I agree :shock:, I am glad we don't all believe the same things, I guess I had better shut up anyway, I am sure everyone is tired of listening to my delusions.


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## pythoness (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

oh snakewrangler, where to start with you. if your saying that ghosts are connceted to "God" as a conciousness then 'your "God" must be very busy impersonating the some 10 million gods and goddesses on the earth (3 million in india alone)
have you met your One God??? how many 'gods' have you met to be told they are all the ONE "God. what about the conciousness of the living earth? have you spoken to HER???? how can you suggest that "God" is a consiousness and then tell me there are no other similar types of consiousness, just the ONE masquerading as dozens of pantheons,,,,, give me a break,,,, if that were true, holy wars would never have happened. 
bbbbaaaaaaaaaa
just another sheep in the xian flock.


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*



pythoness said:


> oh snakewrangler, where to start with you. if your saying that ghosts are connceted to "God" as a conciousness then 'your "God" must be very busy impersonating the some 10 million gods and goddesses on the earth (3 million in india alone)
> have you met your One God??? how many 'gods' have you met to be told they are all the ONE "God. what about the conciousness of the living earth? have you spoken to HER???? how can you suggest that "God" is a consiousness and then tell me there are no other similar types of consiousness, just the ONE masquerading as dozens of pantheons,,,,, give me a break,,,, if that were true, holy wars would never have happened.
> bbbbaaaaaaaaaa
> just another sheep in the xian flock.


You can start wherever you like. 

Actually I had a beer with my God last night, oh hang on he doesn't drink, well I was drinking, maybe thats why he came to see me. 

There are plenty of other types of conciousness, we are concious, just like God, only we lack the power, which is a shame really, imagine what I could do with all that power. :twisted:

I think with all those commas you have had plenty of breaks. :lol:

Whoohoo, I'm a xian!! What the hell is a xian, it sounds pretty cool... 

Sorry if I sound like I am making fun of you, well I am but not in a mean way, I am just over this thread and defending my beliefs... :lol:


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## pythoness (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

:roll: see, this is why one should never discuss religion or politics in polite company, cause now i just don't like you. :roll: :twisted: :lol:


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## SnakeWrangler (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

:shock: With all those emoticons I can't work out how I should take that. :lol:


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## pythoness (Aug 22, 2006)

*RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: do you believe?*

lol,


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## star11 (Aug 22, 2006)

SnakeWrangler...everything you have said sounds pretty spot on to me. :wink: 

Pythoness, There may be millions of Hindu (Indian) Gods but they are all facets of he one "GOD", Brahman, which is everything and is absolute. They use these other characters to symbolize different aspects in life as it is easier than trying to wrap your head around the impossible....which is what this thread is trying to do.

I used to be an ignorant, rightous little sh#t when it came down to beliefs as I was so passionate about finding the truth and the answers as to why we are here. After 8 months in India and Nepal, living in and out of ashrams, temples, Buddhist monasteries and spending months in meditation up on mountains with "gurus", I finally found some peace of mind and I discovered that I didn't need to search or go anywhere at all. The answers are inside us all, the trouble is shutting up the mind so we can listen to them.

I know, I know...."what a fruit loop! :roll:" you say.

I believe everyone is searching, they just may not know it yet.
JMO
Jus


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