# And we pretend we care about animals???



## longqi (Sep 27, 2013)

India Bans Captive Dolphin Shows as 'Morally Unacceptable' | Environment News Service

While western countries like Aus pretend that we care about animals by talking the talk
it takes a third world country to put words into actions and walk the walk


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## wildthings (Sep 27, 2013)

Wow thank you Lonqi, that actually made my cry, hard to believe it's finally beginning and that it has taken so long for someone/country to do the right thing..


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## zulu (Sep 27, 2013)

Its wrong coming from a country that uses child labour.


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## PythonLegs (Sep 27, 2013)

Yeah..anyone who has heen to india can probably think of more pressing concerns they should have than dolphin welfare. Still, good to see someone addressing it.


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## redbellybite (Sep 27, 2013)

There are two sides to a coin ,we in Australia do put on the 'animal shows' this is true ,but to get support of the public in recognizing animal welfare and financial support for the animals,shows that are put on seem to have a better impact then a filmed docco. Most times in our country the animals ,although constricted with space (which is an obvious issue)overall the welfare of our captive animals are of a very high standard...unlike in a lot of overseas places,where the animals are just a commodity and the welfare of them isn't high on a priority list. Don't get me wrong ,I'm glad that India ,has taken a stand in 'animal' concerns and protection but I can't move past the hypocrisy because we all know what values they place on humans over there and have seen it sadly...


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## Jacknife (Sep 27, 2013)

"Quick! Everybody try and find a way to still take the moral high ground!"... Sheesh...


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## thomasssss (Sep 27, 2013)

whilst i can see how some dolphins may not take captivity very well i do encourage you to check out the pep porpoise pool in coffs harbour , then come tell me that those animals are distressed in a captive life


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## ingie (Sep 27, 2013)

He wasn't saying it as a joke, he was saying it is a joke that the country is prioritizing this animal law, over the safety of their women. Any step in the right direction is better than no steps though!


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## bdav70 (Sep 27, 2013)

I wish we would do the same for shows with Orcas in it. There is just the most damning documentary about Seaworld (or similar) in America. Those poor whales suffer terribly


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## Tesla (Sep 27, 2013)

ingie said:


> He wasn't saying it as a joke, he was saying it is a joke that the country is prioritizing this animal law, over the safety of their women. Any step in the right direction is better than no steps though!



So you think rape is legal? Jesus, we really have no hope whatsoever.


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

As someone who is half Indian and has a lot of family over there, I really think that you all need to get informed and stop relying on sensationalised mass media to form your opinions for you.


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## Trimeresurus (Sep 27, 2013)

Tesla said:


> So you think rape is legal? Jesus, we really have no hope whatsoever.



What are you even on about? Yes rape is no joke but the conclusions you're drawing from these posts are crazy.


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## redbellybite (Sep 27, 2013)

Tesla said:


> So you think rape is legal? Jesus, we really have no hope whatsoever.



Tesla,I think you need to re read Zulu's post ...you've taken it the wrong way !


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## andynic07 (Sep 27, 2013)

Lawra said:


> As someone who is half Indian and has a lot of family over there, I really think that you all need to get informed and stop relying on sensationalised mass media to form your opinions for you.



It is the stereotypical profile that people base a lot of judgement on and not actual experience. Yes it is unfortunate but it is a part of life. As you may know from speaking to some of your Indian family Indians also stereotype Australians. Not saying this makes it right but that it just happens.


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## andynic07 (Sep 27, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> whilst i can see how some dolphins may not take captivity very well i do encourage you to check out the pep porpoise pool in coffs harbour , then come tell me that those animals are distressed in a captive life



I love that place.


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> It is the stereotypical profile that people base a lot of judgement on and not actual experience. Yes it is unfortunate but it is a part of life. As you may know from speaking to some of your Indian family Indians also stereotype Australians. Not saying this makes it right but that it just happens.



Stereotypes don't worry me, it's people who blindly believe what they hear on the news then parrot it back as fact that I can't stand - regardless of subject matter.


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## myusername (Sep 27, 2013)

I think you're taking what he said the wrong way. Poor choice of wording on his part perhaps but I certainly didn't feel as though he was making a joke about rape. 



Lawra said:


> As someone who is half Indian and has a lot of family over there, I really think that you all need to get informed and stop relying on sensationalised mass media to form your opinions for you.



As someone with a mate from India and some family friends who regularly travel to India for extended periods I think you need to be a bit more realistic about India's safety situation. While I agree that the media is sensationalised India fares poorly in just about every reputable quality of life or safety index that I've come across and they're generally from reasonably unbiased sources. 

I don't mean to be disparaging about the nation of your heritage but I'm just being realistic - you're not going to hear me trumpeting Australia's awesome treatment of our indigenous people or refugees.


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## ingie (Sep 27, 2013)

Tesla said:


> So you think rape is legal? Jesus, we really have no hope whatsoever.



I am not saying anything on the topic of Indian laws, I am merely pointing out that you have grossly misinterpreted a comment, and have replied in an incredibly rude and shallow manor. You have jumped straight into telling people they have a low IQ and shouldn't breed, when you yourself have just flipped your nut and began petty personal insults because someone has voiced an opinion you don't like. Grow up and take some chill pills.


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## thomasssss (Sep 27, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I love that place.


do the animals that they keep captive long term appear to be in anyway distressed to you ? , i say long term captives as they do also take in wild animals to be rehabilitated (mostly turtles i think) , those understandably wouldnt always be as relaxed but that is apart of rehabilitating animals at times isnt it


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## Tesla (Sep 27, 2013)

ingie said:


> I am not saying anything on the topic of Indian laws





ingie said:


> he was saying it is a joke that the country is prioritizing this animal law, over the safety of their women



I rest my case.


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

myusername said:


> As someone with a mate from India and some family friends who regularly travel to India for extended periods I think you need to be a bit more realistic about India's safety situation. While I agree that the media is sensationalised India fares poorly in just about every reputable quality of life or safety index that I've come across and they're generally from reasonably unbiased sources.
> 
> I don't mean to be disparaging about the nation of your heritage but I'm just being realistic - you're not going to hear me trumpeting Australia's awesome treatment of our indigenous people or refugees.



Perhaps you misunderstood my post, or I didn't say it right. 

I have no misconceptions about India and am not wearing rose coloured glasses. I am well aware of the very real situations over there but I think people need to gain a bit more knowledge and insight before making stupid statements. 

It was discussed on another thread that it is unwise to make generalised blanket statements. 

Just an aside... The OP is talking about dolphins. Say what you will but any little win is still a win. The safety situation won't change overnight but it isn't stopping people from still making small changes where they can. I think that's more important than focusing on the woman on the bus which is the only thing people seem to be aware of. Thank you mass media.


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## ingie (Sep 27, 2013)

Tesla said:


> I rest my case.



What I said was interpreting someone else's opinion. It is not a topic I have any knowledge about personally. Good luck with this "case" and future "cases"


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## wokka (Sep 27, 2013)

It's often the case that authorities create a rule thinking it will fix a problem. I am sure the Ganges River Dolphin and Snubb Finned Dolphin have more to worry about than captivity. Perhaps a few captive Dolphins might create public awareness of the consequences of pollution in the Ganges. rules are easy to Make. Environmental remediation is not!


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## myusername (Sep 27, 2013)

Lawra said:


> Just an aside... The OP is talking about dolphins. Say what you will but any little win is still a win. The safety situation won't change overnight but it isn't stopping people from still making small changes where they can. I think that's more important than focusing on the woman on the bus which is the only thing people seem to be aware of. Thank you mass media.



I agree. It is definitely important that people continue to strive for positive change and every little baby-step counts. You must admit, though, the media coverage that the case has received in India has helped to bring the issue to a head, somewhat, in a nation that really does need a push in the direction of improved women's rights. 

Obviously the media coverage outside of India does become very sensationalised but we can't discredit it entirely. Like our Government the media serves its purpose but it does so far from perfectly.


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## princessparrot (Sep 27, 2013)

now this I like. does that include orcas(probably not), largest member of the dolphin family? now they just need to do this with other animals and stuff. (in shows anyway)


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## Newhere (Sep 27, 2013)

I think tesla was pointing out the fact that they don't just "let" people get raped over there and its still illegal. 

We care about our animals here in Australia. Think of all the conservation areas and national parks and programs dedicated to studying and protecting our native animals shows that fact. Then you have to think about all the legislation in place to protect our wildlife and the fact that you can't keep exotics and you have to pay a licence and keep a record of every single native animal you own, sell, breed, trade, give away or anything else. Thats all in place to protect our animals and our ecosystems.

I thought the dolphins in seaworld are captive bred like all of our reptiles and to be fair if you think they should release all the dolphins from our tourist attractions then you should release all of your captive bred native reptiles. Lead by example if you are that serious about the issue


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## AmazingMorelia (Sep 27, 2013)

Think very carefully about clapping too hard about this and trying to look good by decrying anything that some left wing group calls animal cruelty. These same groups say its cruel to keep a snake in a wooden box. Becareful what you wish for, as you might just get it.
Now sits back and waits for accusations that I must support torturing of kittens cos I hate organisations like peta.


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## longqi (Sep 27, 2013)

Popcorn is great for threads like this

Regardless of anything else a third world country has now protected cetacions
Western countries talk about it
They raise millions of dollars every year to fund the discussion papers
But India has done it


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

AmazingMorelia said:


> Now sits back and waits for accusations that I must support torturing of kittens cos I hate organisations like peta.



I don't think I've read enough about PETA to hate or love them but I certainly support their stance opposing animal testing. There are plenty of humans we could test on instead  

Why do you hate PETA?


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## longqi (Sep 27, 2013)

Lawra said:


> I don't think I've read enough about PETA to hate or love them but I certainly support their stance opposing animal testing. There are plenty of humans we could test on instead
> 
> Why do you hate PETA?



If PETA has their way no animals, including all reptiles will be kept in captivity anywhere
In fact their stance if taken to the nth degree must include cats and dogs


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

longqi said:


> If PETA has their way no animals, including all reptiles will be kept in captivity anywhere
> In fact their stance if taken to the nth degree must include cats and dogs



Oh. That sucks.


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## wokka (Sep 27, 2013)

longqi said:


> Regardless of anything else a third world country has now protected cetacions


have they?? The way I read it they had made a rule prohibiting keeping Dolphins in captivity in India! I think its going a little far to suggest that all Dolphins are now protected. What about the other 20 million Dolphins that weren't destined for captivity?


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## AmazingMorelia (Sep 27, 2013)

longqi said:


> If PETA has their way no animals, including all reptiles will be kept in captivity anywhere
> In fact their stance if taken to the nth degree must include cats and dogs



If that was the craziest of their ideas. They ran a campaign on their website a few years ago telling people to boycott eating Honey, as bees were been enslaved by humans to produce things (honey) for them.
They are a dangerous and wacky organisation who has been caught amongst other things of donating money to ALF and ELF who are both listed as domestic terrorists in the USA. They think animals are better off dead than been owned by humans. Heres another article of their handy work.

TWO PETA EMPLOYEES ARRESTED FOR CRUELTY: CAUGHT DUMPING DOGS THEY ‘RESCUED’ FROM SHELTERS | National Animal Interest Alliance
So I do laugh when I see stupid and dumb celebrities getting nude for a peta poster when they have no idea what this organisation is really about. 
If they got polictical power say goodbye to eating meat or anything that comes from animals. You would all have to be vegan by law. No pets, n9 fishing or hunting. No leather, no wool and so on.


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## Tesla (Sep 27, 2013)

AmazingMorelia said:


> I hate organisations like peta.




I think most people do mate. I'm all for animal rights but PETA are the biggest hypocrites, their shelters in America kill more animals than they re-home.

Edit: I just read the article you posted, it touched on the above point I just made. 10,000 out of 13,000 were killed.:?


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## longqi (Sep 27, 2013)

wokka said:


> have they?? The way I read it they had made a rule prohibiting keeping cetacions in captivity in India! I think its going a little far to suggest that all cetacions are now protected. What about the other 20 million cetacions that weren't destined for captivity?




If you google
india cetation law
there are many more articles with a much better description of what has happened
cetacions are now 'honorary humans' and cannot be killed caged captured or used for entertainment anywhere in India


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## wokka (Sep 27, 2013)

longqi said:


> If you google
> india cetation law
> there are many more articles with a much better description of what has happened
> cetacions are now 'honorary humans' and cannot be killed caged captured or used for entertainment anywhere in India



My appology for my ignorance, i assumed Cetacions was an alternative term for dolphins so please read Dolphins instead of cetacions.


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## Red-Ink (Sep 27, 2013)

That's great and (a positive step forward) all but we probably should ask the thousands cobras without fangs dancing to stay alive how they feel about the dophins... Maybe they walk the walk with a gangster lean hey? Not so straight....


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## Jacknife (Sep 27, 2013)

PETA are nothing more than a glorified domestic terrorism cell. Thats how even the FBI, CIA and Homeland Security see them.
Protection of animal rights is really pretty low on their list of priorities...


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## ronhalling (Sep 27, 2013)

Damn i ran out of popcorn  ..................................Ron


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## longqi (Sep 27, 2013)

Red-Ink said:


> That's great and (a positive step forward) all but we probably should ask the thousands cobras without fangs dancing to stay alive how they feel about the dophins... Maybe they walk the walk with a gangster lean hey? Not so straight....



Red
Cobra shows with defanged snakes are now prohibited in India
Also using traditional healing on snake bite results in murder one charges if the victim dies

For a third world country they are improving things all the time

ps disclaimer... I have zero interest in returning to India
Every business deal I made there failed
Been ripped to the max there
I think their attitude to women sucks big time

- - - Updated - - -



wokka said:


> My appology for my ignorance, i assumed Cetacions was an alternative term for dolphins so please read Dolphins instead of cetacions.



Sorry
lousy spwelling
by cetacean it means all member of the whale or dolphin family are now totally protected


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## redbellybite (Sep 27, 2013)

So longqi,what your saying is that dolphins are the new cow now !


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## wildthings (Sep 27, 2013)

longqi said:


> If you google
> india cetation law
> there are many more articles with a much better description of what has happened
> cetacions are now 'honorary humans' and cannot be killed caged captured or used for entertainment anywhere in India


 and that's what made me shed a tear or two, that someone has finally recognized what they truly are, and done something that the rest of the world is going to talk about, take notice that " They Are Not Just Animals" and to keep them in captivity for entertainment to make money is sickening, keeping them because of injury is the only time they should be in captivity.


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## Justdragons (Sep 27, 2013)

Some of this thread has border lined on racist and some posts just stupid, The only reason its still here is because longqi brought up a good issue and there have been some good responses. cummon APS your better than this. FAMILY REPTILE FORUM remember that.. 

Have nice day.


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## zulu (Sep 27, 2013)

They are cetacions swimming in water that is like soup, address that and they may survive.


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## Sdaji (Sep 27, 2013)

I'd ask someone to pass the popcorn but I'm sure it's all gone. I'll cook some more up.

So, some people on a forum dedicated to serving people who keep animals as pets, are happy that animals in India have been banned from captivity, while their natural habitat is being destroyed and they face extinction. Hands up who thinks animals never belong in captivity? I'm sure most, perhaps all of us have met people who say snakes should never be kept as pets, or in captivity at all. I've certainly met countless people who tell me that, sometimes fiercely. Having been in these shoes, I am reluctant to jump up and down against someone else keeping animals in captivity, especially a blanket ban.

I can remember in the 80s and 90s when the 'The only good snake is a dead snake' mentality was far more common than it is today, and meeting people who were sympathetic to snakes was something which almost never happened, unlike today, where it is pretty common. Back in the 80s extremely few people kept snakes. Today there are lots of them in captivity, and captive snakes are the way most people get exposed to them. If you get no exposure to something you won't care about it. Captive dolphins in a zoo would work as ambassadors for their species, creating public awareness and love, and thus a desire to keep them alive and well. If no one knows or cares, a lot of wild dolphins are going to suffer for the lack of a small few in captivity.

Things like this may seem nice on the surface, but they're not well thought through.

I hope you enjoyed your popcorn


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## cement (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm sure I saw a show once where these guys went to a PETA place and there were some really weird stuff going on....PETA people hybrids, like this half human half ostrich thing lying on the ground saying "kill mee, kill mee"................


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## andynic07 (Sep 27, 2013)

cement said:


> I'm sure I saw a show once where these guys went to a PETA place and there were some really weird stuff going on....PETA people hybrids, like this half human half ostrich thing lying on the ground saying "kill mee, kill mee"................


Next they will try and stop freemason rituals.lol


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## princessparrot (Sep 27, 2013)

Sdaji said:


> I'd ask someone to pass the popcorn but I'm sure it's all gone. I'll cook some more up.
> 
> So, some people on a forum dedicated to serving people who keep animals as pets, are happy that animals in India have been banned from captivity, while their natural habitat is being destroyed and they face extinction. Hands up who thinks animals never belong in captivity? I'm sure most, perhaps all of us have met people who say snakes should never be kept as pets, or in captivity at all. I've certainly met countless people who tell me that, sometimes fiercely. Having been in these shoes, I am reluctant to jump up and down against someone else keeping animals in captivity, especially a blanket ban.
> 
> ...


. If it wasn't for their habitat being destroyed and them facing extinction, I'd be happy for all these guys to be out in the wild in their natural habitat. I much prefer to see animals in their natural environment in the wild but unfortunately it isnt overly safe or the best option for their well being and survival these days


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## marcus0002 (Sep 27, 2013)

cement said:


> I'm sure I saw a show once where these guys went to a PETA place and there were some really weird stuff going on....PETA people hybrids, like this half human half ostrich thing lying on the ground saying "kill mee, kill mee"................



It was south park


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## Lawra (Sep 27, 2013)

ronhalling said:


> Damn i ran out of popcorn  ..................................Ron



Here you can share mine


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## cement (Sep 27, 2013)

Ohh ?.......looked pretty real to me.!


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 27, 2013)

*Newhere*, 
I think you will find that it was not the intent of *Tesla’s* comment that was objected to but Rather his manner. We all understand the sarcasm utilised. However, in our language, to overstate something said, to the point of the rephrasing being ludicrous, and then add a blasphemous, derogatory assessment of it, is to imply that the initial comment was incorrect to the point of warranting ridicule and perhaps even imbecilic. In a phrase... Over the top.

Unfortunately the performance of our national parks does not necessarily meet the PR they churn out. You would have to know someone on the inside to know for you to know that. Otherwise you make a reasonably valid point.


*Sdaji*,
I would have thought you were more up on your cetacean biology than that. Dolphins are amongst the most intelligent of mammals have specific needs that are very expensive to meet properly. So there are just two dolphinariums left in Australia. One contains the largest sandy lagoon built in the world. The other has extensive facilities, helps wild dolphins to breed, and uses only captive bred animals and wild rescues that are unsuitable for release. 

It has nothing to do with not keeping animals. It is about meeting their needs in captivity. If you cannot do that for reptiles, then you should not keep them either. 

*Longqi’s* news includes protection of wild animals. It is a first step and should not be written off before it has even had a chance to take effect. How many of you are aware of the real improvements that have been brought about as a result of changing the legislation in Indian with regards the capture, use and treatment of snakes, in particular cobras and ‘snake charmers’? If India’s government could do something about their massive over-population, I am sure they would. The place is changing but the complexities of many different religious and cultural groups, the lack of widespread access to the media, inadequate transport infrastructure, the immense lack of literacy, etc means that the implementation of any are necessarily going to a lot of time to see the effect. 

My personal opinion is that I am amazed that they have made the progress they have to date. That is not to deny that the road ahead is still very much uphill with a long, long way to go.

Blue


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## Sdaji (Sep 27, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> *Sdaji*,[/SIZE][/FONT]
> I would have thought you were more up on your cetacean biology than that. Dolphins are amongst the most intelligent of mammals have specific needs that are very expensive to meet properly. So there are just two dolphinariums left in Australia. One contains the largest sandy lagoon built in the world. The other has extensive facilities, helps wild dolphins to breed, and uses only captive bred animals and wild rescues that are unsuitable for release.
> 
> It has nothing to do with not keeping animals. It is about meeting their needs in captivity. If you cannot do that for reptiles, then you should not keep them either.



I'm not sure why you'd expect me to be greatly knowledgeable about the biology of fish such as dolphins and whales, or why you would say understanding their intelligence/happiness is a 'biology' type thing, or why any of that is relevant anyway. If they're getting wiped out in the wild, and the ones in the wild are unhappy because the habitat is no good, and that is happening on a large scale, surely a few ambassador animals in captivity which raise awareness and make things better for the wild population would be a good thing as a whole. Call it biology or common sense, but it seems to be in the best interests of the species to expose them to the public and make the public like them. You can disagree if you like, and that's fair enough, not everyone is happy trading one animal's wellbeing for the wellbeing of many others or the entire species, but that's not an understanding of biology, that's it's philosophy.

*sits back and waits to see if he catches any *fish*


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## princessparrot (Sep 27, 2013)

Sdaji said:


> I'm not sure why you'd expect me to be greatly knowledgeable about the biology of fish such as dolphins and whales,


Whales and dolphins aren't fish!!!


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## Lawra (Sep 28, 2013)

princessparrot said:


> Whales and dolphins aren't fish!!!



BURN!!!!!!!

+1 

Lol


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## Newhere (Sep 28, 2013)

Fair enough blue, I don't know anyone on the inside but we do so much to protect our animals and lots of people across the country dedicate their lives to studying and protecting them and I don't think we just pretend to care about them like the title of the thread. Yes we could do better but nobody is perfect and we can't expect our government to be either, we are still doing a lot more than nothing.


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## longqi (Sep 28, 2013)

Newhere said:


> Fair enough blue, I don't know anyone on the inside but we do so much to protect our animals and lots of people across the country dedicate their lives to studying and protecting them and I don't think we just pretend to care about them like the title of the thread. Yes we could do better but nobody is perfect and we can't expect our government to be either, we are still doing a lot more than nothing.



Yes
We are doing a lot more than nothing????
BUT
Is that really true??

We permit the slaughter of whales within our territorial waters
We permit various groups to collect millions of dollars every year to protect cetaceans but see little sign of the money being well spent except in the Sea Shepard case and even then the Government does not back the wishes of the community

India has huge problems
Yet it has taken a big step in the right direction in this case
Western countries talk about things
But where are the similar steps?

I am NOT just including Australia


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## andynic07 (Sep 28, 2013)

Not sure why everyone has to take something good like this and ruin it by judging them , us and others on the bad things that happen. Just realise that India has done something good and say well done.


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## wokka (Sep 28, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Dolphins are amongst the most intelligent of mammals have specific needs that are very expensive to meet properly. So there are just two dolphinariums left in [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]Australia. One contains the largest sandy lagoon built in the world. The other has extensive facilities, helps wild dolphins to breed, and uses only captive bred animals and wild rescues that are unsuitable for release.
> 
> ]


So are you saying that the dolphinariums in Australia should be prohibited? I believe dolphinariums keep Dolphins in the public eye and whilst there are some costs to the individuals housed the overall benefit to the dolphin population makes it worthwhile. Its so easy to ban keeping a particular animal in captivity and think that will fix all the problems. People are selfish; They are more likely to care about something that is in their immediate community than a dream which lives off in the distance. I would like to see "wild" animals kept as pets, rather than dogs and cats so as to make people aware of what else lives on this planet. Sure it would be hard setting and maintaining appropriate keeping standards but to continually say NO! lets the decline in the wild happen while the majority of the public remains unaware .
The plight of dolphins would be better served by having a few in properly maitained Dolphinariums rather than examining corpes along the shores of the Ganges!


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## redbellybite (Sep 28, 2013)

Yep yep yep totally agree Wokka.


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## Newhere (Sep 28, 2013)

I know what you are saying longqi, isn't it illegal to capture or kill a dolphin in Australia? As for keeping them in captivity I think it does more good to keep a few rescued animals that are not suitable for release so we can raise awareness and I'm sure the two places that do keep them in captivity have strict rules and regulations they have to follow. 

You have to start somewhere and we are doing more than nothing. If we were doing nothing I could legally keep a dolphin in my swimming pool and then go for a stroll in the bush and collect some carpet pythons and turn them in to wallets.


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## longqi (Sep 28, 2013)

Newhere said:


> I know what you are saying longqi, isn't it illegal to capture or kill a dolphin in Australia? As for keeping them in captivity I think it does more good to keep a few rescued animals that are not suitable for release so we can raise awareness and I'm sure the two places that do keep them in captivity have strict rules and regulations they have to follow.
> 
> You have to start somewhere and we are doing more than nothing. If we were doing nothing I could legally keep a dolphin in my swimming pool and then go for a stroll in the bush and collect some carpet pythons and turn them in to wallets.



I love how Australia usually tries to protect its wildlife
We are far in advance of most other nations in that regard
But we give millions every year to save the whales and wwf and greenpeace etc and yet a poor third world country
actually goes all the way and protects them??
As for keeping a fairly intelligent herd based animal as a solitary 'display pet' earning its owners money???
Most sea side areas have places and or boats where anyone can watch cetaceans living free
Isnt that far more educational than watching one balance a ball on its nose??

- - - Updated - - -



wokka said:


> So are you saying that the dolphinariums in Australia should be prohibited? I believe dolphinariums keep Dolphins in the public eye and whilst there are some costs to the individuals housed the overall benefit to the dolphin population makes it worthwhile. Its so easy to ban keeping a particular animal in captivity and think that will fix all the problems. People are selfish; They are more likely to care about something that is in their immediate community than a dream which lives off in the distance. I would like to see "wild" animals kept as pets, rather than dogs and cats so as to make people aware of what else lives on this planet. Sure it would be hard setting and maintaining appropriate keeping standards but to continually say NO! lets the decline in the wild happen while the majority of the public remains unaware .
> The plight of dolphins would be better served by having a few in properly maitained Dolphinariums rather than examining corpes along the shores of the Ganges!



Actually agree with a lot of what you said
BUT
Cetaceans in captivity live shorter lives than wild ones
Plenty of places to see and closely observe wild ones too
Is it ok to keep an fairly intelligent herd animal in solitary for the term of its natural life?

I did NOT specify Australia
I include the entire western world


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## Newhere (Sep 28, 2013)

I thought dolphins are protected in Australia like every other animal its illegal to catch one or kill one. If we protect magpies and crows I'm sure we would have laws in place to protect dolphins too. The only difference is we let places like seaworld keep them. Seaworld does train them to do tricks but its a part of keeping them stimulated and having to work for their food like they would in the wild, I'm pretty sure they are animals that can't be released and I think they might breed them there aswell. They do shows for the public and you can even go swimming with them, the money raised goes to funding the park and rescuing other marine animals and rehabilitating them and releasing them if possible. 

How would they get money to rescue wild animals if they released all their animals and closed the park?

And no they should never be kept by themselves.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 29, 2013)

Sdaji said:


> ...Things like this may seem nice on the surface, but they're not well thought through....


You make a supercilious statement like this indicating your authoritativeness yet plead ignorance when challenged. Allow me to correct that short fall by expanding your biological knowledge first. The study of intelligence is part of the behavioural sciences (Pavlov’s dog or Skinnerian boxes ring a bell?) and the behavioural sciences are part of the biological sciences. Q.E.D. So as not to put too fine a point on for you, I take exception to being patronized.

The issues facing the river dolphins have nothing to do with them being popular or not. The sort of popular interest and support to which you are alluding, works well in a place like Australia where the media can disseminate information and alter attitudes in so doing. India does not have the capacity to replicate that due its huge level of illiteracy and the extent of abject poverty, both of which preclude access to mass media. The dolphins have already been accorded a high level of protection but it is estimated that poaching and use of gill nets remove around 100 each year. This has been happening year after year while the dolphinariums operate. The environmental issues they face are dams, pollution and the turbidity and silting from sand mining and deforestation. 

If elevation of their status and protection helps to reduce the direct killing by humans, that is a positive for a species with low fecundity. We cannot say what will happen. But at the very least there is a chance of bringing more pressure to bear on those who currently are involved in their deaths.

The other side of the coin is that other countries may reconsider at least the captive environments that are provided for cetaceans and whether they are appropriate or not. I will also point out that not all animals are suited for captive culture, so you need to call the individuals or groups as you see them, rather than make all-embracing statements.

Blue


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## wildthings (Sep 29, 2013)

Nicely said Blue


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## mmafan555 (Sep 29, 2013)

redbellybite said:


> There are two sides to a coin ,we in Australia do put on the 'animal shows' this is true ,but to get support of the public in recognizing animal welfare and financial support for the animals,shows that are put on seem to have a better impact then a filmed docco. Most times in our country the animals ,although constricted with space (which is an obvious issue)overall the welfare of our captive animals are of a very high standard...unlike in a lot of overseas places,where the animals are just a commodity and the welfare of them isn't high on a priority list. Don't get me wrong ,I'm glad that India ,has taken a stand in 'animal' concerns and protection but I can't move past the hypocrisy because we all know what values they place on humans over there and have seen it sadly...



In India many reptiles/animals pose a real *legitimate* threat to people...So the villagers many kill them on site without mercy...This is understandable since some Indian snakes kill thousands of people each year and pose a real danger....Everyone on here would be doing the exact same thing if they lived in that situation but with snakes/reptiles only killing several people a year in the first world it is impossible to compare.

Yes the occasional snake/croc/bear will kill someone in Australia/The US/Canada/Europe but the situation is just not comparable to a place like India or Sri Lanka....India has a huge amount of animals that kill tons of people each year. Venomous snakes are often killed immediately in South Asia as they pose a real danger to people.

Rape happens throughout the world sadly....Often at very shockingly high rates.


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## Sdaji (Sep 29, 2013)

Sdaji said:


> *sits back and waits to see if he catches any *fish*



Well I'll be! I actually did catch a couple! :lol:

Hey blue, you're obviously pretty passionate about the issue, I won't argue with you


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 3, 2013)

Thank you *Sdaji*. I am passionate about Biology but I discuss and argue with my head rather than my heart. Rational use of logic with the known facts is a lot more convincing. 

Blue


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## Darlyn (Oct 6, 2013)

mmafan555 said:


> In India many reptiles/animals pose a real *legitimate* threat to people...So the villagers many kill them on site without mercy...This is understandable since some Indian snakes kill thousands of people each year and pose a real danger....Everyone on here would be doing the exact same thing if they lived in that situation but with snakes/reptiles only killing several people a year in the first world it is impossible to compare.
> 
> Yes the occasional snake/croc/bear will kill someone in Australia/The US/Canada/Europe but the situation is just not comparable to a place like India or Sri Lanka....India has a huge amount of animals that kill tons of people each year. Venomous snakes are often killed immediately in South Asia as they pose a real danger to people.
> 
> Rape happens throughout the world sadly....Often at very shockingly high rates.



Can't see how this is relevant, what are you trying to say? BTW no deaths in Australia from bears


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## longqi (Oct 8, 2013)

Darlyn said:


> BTW no deaths in Australia from bears



Maybe no actual deaths yet

But drop bears have caused a few changes of knickers when one drops into the middle of a group of tourists huddled around a dim torch listening to stories about Aussies dangerous beasties


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## Trimeresurus (Oct 8, 2013)

longqi said:


> Maybe no actual deaths yet
> 
> But drop bears have caused a few changes of knickers when one drops into the middle of a group of tourists huddled around a dim torch listening to stories about Aussies dangerous beasties



Not only that, some of the noises they make are terrifying.


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## Cypher69 (Oct 8, 2013)

Darlyn said:


> BTW no deaths in Australia from bears



That's because they have smart lawyers & good alibis.


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## princessparrot (Oct 10, 2013)

longqi said:


> Maybe no actual deaths yet
> 
> But drop bears have caused a few changes of knickers when one drops into the middle of a group of tourists huddled around a dim torch listening to stories about Aussies dangerous beasties


Aren't dropbears koalas or am I thinking of something else?


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## sharky (Oct 10, 2013)

Drop Bear - Australian Museum


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## princessparrot (Oct 10, 2013)

sharky said:


> Drop Bear - Australian Museum


Sorry, but I am having quite difficulty believing that


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## andynic07 (Oct 10, 2013)

princessparrot said:


> Sorry, but I am having quite difficulty believing that


But it has the museum logo on it.


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