# Salamanders



## Ewan (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi all I have been reading all the salamander threads on this site tonight trying to I'D it. Someone who replied to my For Sale add told me that it is either a Santa Cruz Black Salamander or an Alpine Black Salamander but I have a feeling its just a local morph. Does anyone know how I can tell if its a forced morph or infact a locale specific species. I have 2 females of the same type.


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

Can anyone help me identify these salamanders?


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## Miss B (Mar 11, 2008)

Erm :|

Where did you get those from? Salamanders are illegal.


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

I got them from a pet shop last year.


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## Miss B (Mar 11, 2008)

Weird. What were they sold to you as?


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## arbok (Mar 11, 2008)

lol


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

Miss B said:


> Weird. What were they sold to you as?


Salamanders!


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## W.T.BUY (Mar 11, 2008)

was it sold to u as morphed axolotl as there legal.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 11, 2008)

Looks like a morphed axalotl, could be wrong though..
These were for sale at living hell last year


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## W.T.BUY (Mar 11, 2008)

how much did they set u back?? have u breed them???


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## Miss B (Mar 11, 2008)

I dunno about that, W.T.BUY. I'm pretty sure it's also illegal to force Axolotls to morph.

Morphed Axo's aren't true Salamanders, anyway.


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## Scleropages (Mar 11, 2008)

Its an axolotal. poor thing


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## Daniel_Penrith (Mar 11, 2008)

i didnt think salamanders were illegal, ive also seen them for sale in pet shops


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## Miss B (Mar 11, 2008)

They were probably just morphed Axo's then. Salamanders are definately illegal.


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

W.T.BUY said:


> how much did they set u back?? have u breed them???


 
They were 200 bux each. The Mrs wanted them so we compromised and got them. haven't breed them no. i wouldnt know how, besides i think i have 2 females.


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## jack (Mar 11, 2008)

i have seen both newts and salamanders for sale, in fact i was in a pet shop yesterday that was selling them... and for a lot less than $200!


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## arbok (Mar 11, 2008)

does it hurt for them to morph?



Trousa_Snake said:


> Its an axolotal. poor thing


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

i need someone to tell me what they were not another legallity or morality thread. there is 2 or 3 of those already. does anyone know for sure or can you not tell if they are morphed or true?


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## arbok (Mar 11, 2008)

soz ewan im not trying to turn it into morality, just curious. never even heard of axolotls morphing!


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

no no i wasnt accusing anyone in particular.


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## mcloughlin2 (Mar 11, 2008)

Guys grow up. Axolotls naturally morph into salamanders in the wild. In their natural habitat there is a mineral/chemical/salt that causes them to morph. In other water it isn't possible, hence the reason for axolotls maturing and breeding.

I'm guessing they are morphed axolotls.


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## Kenshin (Mar 11, 2008)

they look like black turds


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## Ewan (Mar 11, 2008)

mcloughlin2 i was under the same impression. i guess reading all the other threads and having people reply to my for sale add asking if they are morphed axies or true sallies i got myself confused.


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## Scleropages (Mar 11, 2008)

arbok said:


> does it hurt for them to morph?


 

doult it , they have evolved to stay in the larval form , but can morf if you stuff with them ( got nothing to do with how much water they live in) 


google them:shock:

http://www.axolotl.org/

walkin slugs... haha


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## urodacus_au (Mar 11, 2008)

mcloughlin2 said:


> Guys grow up. Axolotls naturally morph into salamanders in the wild. In their natural habitat there is a mineral/chemical/salt that causes them to morph. In other water it isn't possible, hence the reason for axolotls maturing and breeding.
> 
> I'm guessing they are morphed axolotls.



Think you need to do a little more research before taking the high ground.

Jordan


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## Renagade (Mar 11, 2008)

i like them, how big are they?


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## Trouble (Mar 11, 2008)

:shock: looks like an axolotle in a wet suit :lol:


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## Ewan (Mar 12, 2008)

They are about 5 or 6 inches long.


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## Sdaji (Mar 13, 2008)

It's a metamorphosed Axolotl, and yes, these do very much count as true salamanders. Axolotls don't metamorphose in the wild. The ability to reproduce as a sexually precocious larvae evolved (devolved?) as a way to speed up reproduction and avoid an unnecessary reliance on dry land. It is extremely rare for Axolotls to spontaneously metamorphose in captivity, but using hormones it's pretty easily induced. Most people do it in a bad way (I'm not going to describe good and bad methods for risk of encouraging people to do it) and the metamorphosed animals typically have poor health and don't live for long. If done properly they can be healthier and live longer, but still won't thrive as well as natural neotenic larvae. The salamanders are also pretty boring pets compared to the natural type. 

Axolotls are legal to keep and breed in Australia. Not so long ago you could keep other amphibians, but Axolotls are now the only one.


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## Timotei (Apr 10, 2008)

mcloughlin2 said:


> Guys grow up. Axolotls naturally morph into salamanders in the wild. In their natural habitat there is a mineral/chemical/salt that causes them to morph. In other water it isn't possible, hence the reason for axolotls maturing and breeding.



Noo.. Axolotls are neotenic salamanders - they attain sexual maturity in a quasi-larval form, eliminating the need to metamorphose into terrestrial salamanders.. Physiologically, however they could in theory be capable of doing so, but the fact is they already have 2 pseudo-larval stages when the paired appendages grow.. and adding another stage isn't in their nature.

As Sdaji said, hormones might do the trick, but it'd be pretty much like pumping high oestrogen levels into a man - pretty stressful for the system, and just not natural!



Sdaji said:


> Axolotls are legal to keep and breed in Australia. Not so long ago you could keep other amphibians, but Axolotls are now the only one.



And frogs of course


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## HoffOff (Apr 10, 2008)

Ewan said:


> i need someone to tell me what they were not another legallity or morality thread. there is 2 or 3 of those already. does anyone know for sure or can you not tell if they are morphed or true?


it is a Morphed you can tell by the Pics cecause there is a Left over gill On it


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## nickvelez (Apr 10, 2008)

how big are they Ewan?
morphosed axolotls would be much larger than alpine salamanders. plumper individuals may well be females. mature males would have larger swollen cloacae than females(vent area)
heres a link to some pictures of the alpine salamander
http://www.herp.it/SpeciesPages/SalamAtra.htm

looking at some pics of the Santa Cruz Black Salamander, they appear to be more long bodied than your girls.


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## Ewan (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi guys thanks for joining the thread and helping me out. Nickvelez they are approx 20cm long and are both female (no swollen vent). I have had many equiries about them but still no takers.


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## Ewan (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi guys thanks for joining the thread and helping me out. Nickvelez they are approx 20cm long and are both female (no swollen vent). I have had many equiries about them but still no takers.


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## Pike01 (Apr 10, 2008)

Miss B said:


> I dunno about that, W.T.BUY. I'm pretty sure it's also illegal to force Axolotls to morph.
> 
> Morphed Axo's aren't true Salamanders, anyway.



There have been plenty of these for sale in QLD,Miss B, what makes you think axolotls aren't true salamanders????


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## snakkko (Apr 17, 2008)

wat r the difference between salamanders and lizards. yes i know....stupid question


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## Retic (Apr 17, 2008)

Salamanders are amphibians like frogs, lizards are of course reptiles.


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## Kirby (Apr 17, 2008)

i read up on morphng them a while ago. they explained a very stressful method of lowering water etc. which eventually kills most individuals. 

if pet shops are selling morphed individuls in multple amounts, i would assume hormones are used.. 

if it is infact true that naturally they can morph.. then why would is be so harmful to allow them to do so with the help of hormones etc. that apparently occur naturally. 

ive kept axo's before, but the salamander moprh looks much more fun. they do still swim and live in moist habitats. i would be left gobsmacked to see how gills turn into lungs tho..


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## Kirby (Apr 17, 2008)




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## AlexB (Apr 30, 2008)

I have bred axolotls by the bucket load, cool creatures

BUT it is not stressful for them to metamorphosis some just choose to do it and can even start to change but dont complete the morph and just change back. 

Usually they morph when the salts in the water get high this causes the axolotl's thyroid to produce higher levels of thyroxine which will induce metamorphosis. i kept mine in a bath outside and when i went away some times the water would evaporate to about 6 inches and id usualy come home to a salamander :shock:

This can also be achieved by adding the CORRECT amount iodine to the water, Not medical iodine BUT Iodine used in SW aquariums. Tthere is no real need to do this though spawning them as salamanders is alot harder and they produce less eggs.


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## Hooglabah (May 8, 2008)

found a thing on wikipedia that explains all about axolotls heres the link for you perusing pleasure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl


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## Timotei (May 8, 2008)

AlexB said:


> I have bred axolotls by the bucket load, cool creatures
> 
> BUT it is not stressful for them to metamorphosis some just choose to do it and can even start to change but dont complete the morph and just change back.
> 
> ...



Iodine seems risky to me, could bust the thyroid if you added too much.


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