# Pure Vs Jags, Morphs, etc.



## pythoninfinite (Apr 16, 2018)

Whilst not condoning any smuggling activities, either in or out of Oz, it's interesting that some members here conflate cruelty with smuggling and almost demand the death penalty for offenders... and yet many of those same members hang out for the newest or rarest morph to become available so that they can be the first on the block with something different. Many, if not most, of the morphs available in this country originate in far away places like Europe and the US, and find their way here by way of swaps or money with locals here. I don't see much difference between this activity and the state authorised shipment of livestock, in horrendous conditions, to places in the world where animal welfare is not even on the radar. We KNOW that sheep and cattle will be brutalised in the most appalling ways by the barbaric practices of the end processors in these countries, the Middle East and Indonesia come to mind, but Aussies will do anything for a dollar, and governments, both state and Federal, turn a blind eye. We have no control over what happens to most of these animals when they reach their destination, despite the constant and pathetic assurances of those who are making money from this disgusting, miserable trade. Off topic I know, but there are parallels...

Jamie


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## Yellowtail (Apr 16, 2018)

pythoninfinite said:


> Whilst not condoning any smuggling activities, either in or out of Oz, it's interesting that some members here conflate cruelty with smuggling and almost demand the death penalty for offenders... and yet many of those same members hang out for the newest or rarest morph to become available so that they can be the first on the block with something different. Many, if not most, of the morphs available in this country originate in far away places like Europe and the US, and find their way here by way of swaps or money with locals here. I don't see much difference between this activity and the state authorised shipment of livestock, in horrendous conditions, to places in the world where animal welfare is not even on the radar. We KNOW that sheep and cattle will be brutalised in the most appalling ways by the barbaric practices of the end processors in these countries, the Middle East and Indonesia come to mind, but Aussies will do anything for a dollar, and governments, both state and Federal, turn a blind eye. We have no control over what happens to most of these animals when they reach their destination, despite the constant and pathetic assurances of those who are making money from this disgusting, miserable trade. Off topic I know, but there are parallels...
> 
> Jamie


Mate that's one of the reasons I only keep and breed pure animals, no jags, granites. I can produce better looking animals by selected line breeding.


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## Mick666 (Apr 16, 2018)

A week ago I would have been skeptical of your statement Yellowtail, but last week someone here passed my details to a breeder who called me. This person was making similar claims that they could produce animals better than the jags and crosses, but with pure lines. They then sent me some pictures, and everything that this person had said was backed up with proof. I have never seen anything like it before, absolute perfection. Unfortunately this person is very private so I won't be sharing any pics or naming names, sorry guys. But after seeing what this breeder has achieved, my whole outlook on breeding has changed.


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## Yellowtail (Apr 16, 2018)

I'm sure I know who you mean


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 16, 2018)

Yellowtail said:


> Mate that's one of the reasons I only keep and breed pure animals, no jags, granites. I can produce better looking animals by selected line breeding.



I'm absolutely with you on that one Yt - a good friend of mine (a zoo based academic herpetologist) recently and generously gave me a young pair of 3rd generation captive-bred Sydney Basin Diamonds, and at 18 months I have to say I think they're stunning... and yet they arouse almost no interest from the general pet keeping community. For me they have context, because there is a possibility that you could find animals like these in their natural habitat, and for me that gives them a relevance that the mixed gene morphs don't have.

Jamie


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 16, 2018)

I'm all for polymorphic breeding but totally 100% against genetics that lead to animals that are less than perfect.
I'm not wanting to start that whole jag debate again but I'm glad I have nothing with that genetic trait. (And they call it progress)


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 16, 2018)

pythoninfinite said:


> I'm absolutely with you on that one Yt - a good friend of mine (a zoo based academic herpetologist) recently and generously gave me a young pair of 3rd generation captive-bred Sydney Basin Diamonds, and at 18 months I have to say I think they're stunning... and yet they arouse almost no interest from the general pet keeping community. For me they have context, because there is a possibility that you could find animals like these in their natural habitat, and for me that gives them a relevance that the mixed gene morphs don't have.
> 
> Jamie



Any pictures Jamie? Never get enough of seeing Diamonds. I'd love to photograph them some day.


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## Bl69aze (Apr 16, 2018)

Nero Egernia said:


> Any pictures Jamie? Never get enough of seeing Diamonds. I'd love to photograph them some day.


Grumpiest diamond you ever done see.


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## pythoninfinite (Apr 17, 2018)

Nero Egernia said:


> Any pictures Jamie? Never get enough of seeing Diamonds. I'd love to photograph them some day.



I'll see what I can do today!

Jamie


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## Mick666 (Apr 17, 2018)

After what I saw last week, the jag gene looks like it's unnecessary anyway. The same (or better) reduced patterns can be made with pure lines. Even in my own clutch from my first ever breeding season, I had a hatchie that could pass as a jag, but it's just a stripe that he got from his dad that turned out really nice.

this is a (poor quality) photo of the jag that isn't a jag



[doublepost=1523923755,1523923412][/doublepost]this is the parents, dad is suspected axanthic with a stripe, mum is "caramel/hypo?"


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## Yellowtail (Apr 17, 2018)

These are pure Darwin


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## Chipewah (Apr 17, 2018)

The Jag gene is way over rated, in my opinion. Some look really good like the Hypo Bredli's, Albino's, Sunglow's and fluro Zeb's but even then it's only some of them. 
The best Carpets I have seen have been line bred. I have nothing against Morphs and love some of them but nothing beats some of the great line bred pure's. That coupled with not being able to handle the thought of some animals having nero and being put down just to get a couple of good looking one's.


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## Yellowtail (Apr 17, 2018)

Just took these, from the same clutch of pure Darwins as the one above, 18 of them all different.


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## Neil j (Apr 18, 2018)

I don’t mind abit of jaguar in the mix. Gives them that mutant appearance. I got a baby het ax hypo jag female. She’s amazing.
[doublepost=1524012230,1523958770][/doublepost]75% jungle


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