# What Israel/US Bombs do in Gaza. Raw.



## Earthling (Jan 5, 2009)

YouTube - gaza 2009 0101


YouTube - Raw footage of the Gaza Massacre 12 27 08


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## jessb (Jan 5, 2009)

I haven't watched this (it's a bit early for death and devastation) but I firmly believe that every party in this conflict, including the US, has blood on their hands, and as long as the US is supporting Israel's right to act as it wishes "at any cost" the fighting will continue.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

They are all as bad as one another, including these Arabs.


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## waruikazi (Jan 5, 2009)

How the hell can Israel expect to have support for any war, not matter who the aggressor is, if they have so much civilian collateral damage. They're killing kids!


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## redbellybite (Jan 5, 2009)

WAR IS WAR ................no matter what or which country/countries are involved ...innocent lives are always lost ....the sadder part is in most of these middle eastern countries , their own government doesnt really give a crap about civillian loss...we are focused alot on the middle east at the moment ..but years ago it was the civil wars in IRELAND ...or african countries or asian countries ...all my life there has been wars , we just are more aware of the carnage due to more exposure ...in reality this is no different then the wars that either your grandads or dads fought in .....


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## Earthling (Jan 5, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> WAR IS WAR ................no matter what or which country/countries are involved ...innocent lives are always lost ....the sadder part is in most of these middle eastern countries , their own government doesnt really give a crap about civillian loss...we are focused alot on the middle east at the moment ..but years ago it was the civil wars in IRELAND ...or african countries or asian countries ...all my life there has been wars , we just are more aware of the carnage due to more exposure ...in reality this is no different then the wars that either your grandads or dads fought in .....


 
If it was exposure we would be blase every time death comes up...we just get blase now 2 weeks down the track...

I would argue it is different to the past wars. Not as of more exposure, but as of INFORMATION.

The world wide web has really made information accessable to anyone with a computer. Even if you dont have a computer the TV and Radio can get the information and diseminate it so much quicker then years ago.
With this increased information, we can make better judgements as to what is better quality and what is low quality.
Many people judge this Israel Gaza War as very low quality for any number of reasons.


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## urodacus_au (Jan 5, 2009)

Let them kill each other, if there was no war what would they do for fun? War is so ingrained in these people, i cant see it stopping until one completely wipes the other from the face of the earth.

Jordan


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## The Devil (Jan 5, 2009)

They have been killing each other for a 1000 years and will continue for another 1000 years.


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

urodacus_au said:


> Let them kill each other, if there was no war what would they do for fun? War is so ingrained in these people, i cant see it stopping until one completely wipes the other from the face of the earth.
> 
> Jordan



Scary to think the Israelis are a nuclear power... thats a nuclear power that blames homosexuals
for natural disasters, scary stuff.


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## andyscott (Jan 5, 2009)

Seeing twisted liveless bodies of children is sickening.
Although the people of Gaza will seek retribution, and it goes on and on.
Its sad but wont stop until one wipes the other out.


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## Jewly (Jan 5, 2009)

The Devil said:


> They have been killing each other for a 1000 years and will continue for another 1000 years.


 
Due to the fact that our government has allowed so many middle eastern people to move to Australia, they will no doubt bring their hatrid and love of conflict with them, which slowly is seeping into our way of life. You only had to watch the news to see all the people protesting to see how many there are here.

I'm not saying they are all like that, cause I know some lovely middle eastern people but it only takes a few fanatics to stir things up.


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## redbellybite (Jan 5, 2009)

Earthling said:


> If it was exposure we would be blase every time death comes up...we just get blase now 2 weeks down the track...
> 
> I would argue it is different to the past wars. Not as of more exposure, but as of INFORMATION.
> 
> ...


 when comparing to granddad and dad was meant as due to less "information"and "exposure" we didnt really get a birds eye view of the carnage that was happening ..hence the older generations that fought witnessed in FULL COLOUR ...whilst as a child , I saw mostly war pictures, and in black and white....now due to more film coverage and media exposure we do get to see the carnage and all the while it is sad and disturbing I am afraid its not really a shell shock to the system to me.. another you tube vid doesnt really peak me , I know it sounds awful but its true...put a vid of animal cruelty and you would get more of an outcry then middle eastern war crimes.....


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

Jewly said:


> Due to the fact that our government has allowed so many middle eastern people to move to Australia, they will no doubt bring their hatrid and love of conflict with them, which slowly is seeping into our way of life. You only had to watch the news to see all the people protesting to see how many there are here.
> 
> I'm not saying they are all like that, cause I know some lovely middle eastern people but it only takes a few fanatics to stir things up.



Yes the government has allowed Middle Easterns into the country as well as Americans, Greeks, Asians, Indians, British, French and Africans etc etc.

Thats all part of living in a Multicultural society.

Years ago, it was people hating on the Greeks, next it will be the Africans that are being allowed refugee status.

Speak to majority of Middle Easterners and they will tell you they are just as much against the hatred, attacks and terrorism as you are.
Its only a few that make a display that make the rest seem bad, have a look at those videos again and tell me who could have a love for conflict like that?

Palestinians are fighting for what was originally theirs in the first place, and Israelis are slowly chipping away at the borders and taking more and more of their land!


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## jessb (Jan 5, 2009)

The Devil said:


> They have been killing each other for a 1000 years and will continue for another 1000 years.


 
Israel has only existed for about 50 years...


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

jessb said:


> Israel has only existed for about 50 years...



But they've been playing the victim since the dawn of time.


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## cris (Jan 5, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> How the hell can Israel expect to have support for any war, not matter who the aggressor is, if they have so much civilian collateral damage. They're killing kids!



Do HMAS have special guidance systems on the rockets they fire so they miss children? as far as i know they just hope to kill as many civilians as they can and try to use things like children and relgious buildings as shields. Its a pretty stupid situation im glad it has nothing to do with me.


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## Dodie (Jan 5, 2009)

Jewly said:


> Due to the fact that our government has allowed so many middle eastern people to move to Australia, they will no doubt bring their hatrid and love of conflict with them, which slowly is seeping into our way of life. You only had to watch the news to see all the people protesting to see how many there are here.
> 
> I'm not saying they are all like that, cause I know some lovely middle eastern people but it only takes a few fanatics to stir things up.


 
I know what you mean, anyone that comes from a dusty place just wants to rape and burn our country... we should stop anyone that doesn't look white into OUR country, after all, we stole it fair and square - didn't even hurt noone...

Those evil evil middle easterners...

These are the problems religion creates. If humans truely want peace then we must abolish religion. 

"When there's one you're bound to divide it, right in two"


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## Mavrick (Jan 5, 2009)

The Devil said:


> They have been killing each other for a 1000 years and will continue for another 1000 years.



So very true. Someone equally wise  also said once that only the dead have seen the end of war.

On another note, perhaps someone should point out how crappy a piece of land these people are fighting over. I wouldn't want to pitch a tent on it, let alone kill people over it.


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## moosenoose (Jan 5, 2009)

I think you all need to get over it - nothing will change! It hasn't and won't for generations to come! That's life... Sadly!


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## Jewly (Jan 5, 2009)

I couldn't care less if they kill one another in their own country, but I HATE when they come to our country and start it all up again.


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## Dodie (Jan 5, 2009)

You're a wise one Jewly :lol:


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## Vat69 (Jan 5, 2009)

Mavrick said:


> On another note, perhaps someone should point out how crappy a piece of land these people are fighting over. I wouldn't want to pitch a tent on it, let alone kill people over it.



I think you might be missing the point of the conflict. Aesthetics and agriculture are hardly the crux of this issue.


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

Jewly said:


> I couldn't care less if they kill one another in their own country, but I HATE when they come to our country and start it all up again.



I cant recall the last time I saw or heard of an Israeli F-18 firing rockets in Australian airspace, nor Hamas launch rockets on our soil?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> Yes the government has allowed Middle Easterns into the country as well as Americans, Greeks, Asians, Indians, British, French and Africans etc etc.
> 
> Thats all part of living in a Multicultural society.
> 
> ...


 

Clearly you have no education nor know the history.

Israel is taking back what is theres and was stolen from them many many years ago.

The land the "pallestinians" reside on is actually Israeli land if you go back in history and look at the facts.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

jessb said:


> Israel has only existed for about 50 years...


 

Israel was around for thousands of years it only reclaimed its land 50 + years ago.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Australis said:


> But they've been playing the victim since the dawn of time.


 

They are the victim look at what hitler did to the jews. 

Your comments are antisemtic! And are offensive to anyone of the Jewish faith.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> I think you all need to get over it - nothing will change! It hasn't and won't for generations to come! That's life... Sadly!


 

I agree.

This will never end. 

The muslim palestinians will continue blowing up school buses with suicide bombers and Israel will righty so retailiate.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

I suggest you all look at this site 

http://www.levitt.com/misc/israel_history.html

This gives you an idea of what Israelis, Jews and Zionists believe.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

My best mates from Israel, and all the Israelis iv met, I love them, they are the nicest people ever. And know how to cook!
I used to basically live at my mates house when we lived near each other, now opposite sides of the country.
So obviously id take Israel's side, but not only because of that, but because they don't go around the world killing people like the bloody Arabs do!


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> My best mates from Israel, and all the Israelis iv met, I love them, they are the nicest people ever. And know how to cook!
> I used to basically live at my mates house when we lived near each other, now opposite sides of the country.
> So obviously id take Israel's side, but not only because of that, but because they don't go around the world killing people like the bloody Arabs do!


 

I agree.

Israel only ever retailiates to the terror inflicted on them.

One could argue there methods are not correct but one can not argue its the arabs who start the problem.

What is Israel supposed to do when a school bus full of kids or a restaraunt full of familys is targetted by a suicide bomber? 

They have to defend themselfs.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

And yes I agree they won't stop until one wipes the other out, hopefully its the Arabs that go, no more problems for the rest of the world then.
No more suicide bombers etc.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> And yes I agree they won't stop until one wipes the other out, hopefully its the Arabs that go, no more problems for the rest of the world then.
> No more suicide bombers etc.


 

Lol true.


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## method (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> They are the victim look at what hitler did to the jews.
> 
> Your comments are antisemtic! And are offensive to anyone of the Jewish faith.


 
That is a very one sided point of view here, exactly how can you call Israel the victim in this conflict. Fair enough the war between these two people have been going on for centuries but you have to look at the Palastinians located in the gaza strip's point of view. Israel and Egypt have turned these people into nothing more then prisinors, you can almost compare it to what the Germans did to the jews in WW2. 

Israel has slowly been stripping the Palastinian's of their rightful land since then became a country in the 1940's(If my memory recalls correctly), and how did they do this, by nothing more then using their ridiculously more powerful armed forces. They are the cause of this situation and Australis is right they have been playing the Victim ever since this war began. They were the ones who forced palastinian refugees into the gaza stip and who have now locked them in as prisinors. They arn't free to cross the borders both Egypt and Israel at the risk of being slaughtered like sheep and then look what Israel does by cutting of all aid/resources from entering the stip. And its not like they can hop on a boat and simply seek refuge elsewhere as Israels navy has watch over Gaza's waters like a watch tower in a prison.

This is a ridiculously one sided fight and the Palastinians (allthough i don't support their tactics one little bit) are doing what they can to fight for what little land and rights they have. And this is done with their home made rocket launchers and suicide bombers. What else would you expect them to do in a situation where they are being suppresed as all hell, Israel is the Military super power in the middle east and that is why you havn't seen one surrounding country rush to the Palastinian's aid.

Just look what happened when Egypt and Sudan invaded Israel years back, unprepared and outnumbered the Israel military absolutley obliterated the oposing forces in less then a week. And now with nuculear weaponry and the US backing them there is no way the Palastinians are getting out of this situation until Israel has had their way and eliminated every single last one of them.

I'm not defending or supporting either sides by the way, but calling Israel the victim here is acting a little oblivious of the entire situation here. Good luck to Palastine anyway from holding of their attack.. they will certainly need it.


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> They are the victim look at what hitler did to the jews.
> 
> Your comments are antisemtic! And are offensive to anyone of the Jewish faith.



It's taking it a bit far to accuse someone of having no education and then accuse someone else of being "antisemtic".
The Jewish nation has been despised by some quarters for a lot longer than the state of Israel, and the Holocaust. Rightly or wrongly, it's not the point. Instead of trying to draw on emotional argument, have a look at the big picture - Israel is simply the vital outpost for the US in the Middle East. 

It may also pay to look at more independent news sources too. You may see that Palestine has been blockaded for many months, with little in the way of food or medical supplies getting through. Red Cross and the UNHR are aggressively dealt with by the Israeli forces...something's got to give at some stage?

Best thing I ever did was travel. Fullstop. I can't understand the mindset of people who haven't.
Opens your mind.


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## method (Jan 5, 2009)




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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

Jewly said:


> I couldn't care less if they kill one another in their own country, but I HATE when they come to our country and start it all up again.



Don't forget the circumstances seen Europeans settled in Australia 

If people didnt come into other countries and bring some of their culture along with it, we would all be living in the bush, barefoot, covered in ochre paints telling and dreamtime stories etc.

The thing that puzzles me is how alot of 'Australians' seem to forget the massacre of the Aboriginals done by White European settlers to make this "THEIR or OUR" country.
Kev did say sorry afterall, so finally the government have admitted to it 

Its not that different to whats going on in the Middle East now.
Israelis were told they could have Israel after the war, all of which was originally Palestine.

Imagine someone came along and destroyed say Japan, then said 'here have the East Coast of Australia' to make up for it. Would you protest and fight for your rights or would you just give it up?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Israel has slowly been stripping the Palastinian's of their rightful land since then became a country in the 1940's *ITS ISRAELS LAND THEY ARE SIMPLY RETAKING WHAT IS THERES* (If my memory recalls correctly), and how did they do this, by nothing more then using their ridiculously more powerful armed forces. They are the cause of this situation and Australis is right they have been playing the Victim ever since this war began. *WRONG THEY ARE THE VICTIM AND HAVE BEEN FOR MANY YEARS I SUGGEST YOU LOOK AT HOW MANY SUICIDE BOMBINGS THERE HAVE BEEN* They were the ones who forced palastinian refugees into the gaza stip and who have now locked them in as prisinors. *WRONG THEY CAN LEAVE THEY CHOOSE NOT TO THEY COULD ALWAYS GO TO JORDAN WHICH IS THE TRUE PALESTINE!* They arn't free to cross the borders both Egypt and Israel at the risk of being slaughtered like sheep and then look what Israel does by cutting of all aid/resources from entering the stip *THEY ARE NOT FREE TO CROSS BECAUSE THEY ARE A THREAT TO THE ISRAELI PEOPLE*. And its not like they can hop on a boat and simply seek refuge elsewhere as Israels navy has watch over Gaza's waters like a watch tower in a prison.

This is a ridiculously one sided fight and the Palastinians (allthough i don't support their tactics one little bit) are doing what they can to fight for what little land and rights they have. *THEY HAVE NO LAND RIGHTS MUSLIMS STOLE JEWISH LAND AND JEWS ARE SIMPLY TAKING BACK WHAT WAS THERES RIGHTFULLY* And this is done with their home made rocket launchers and suicide bombers. What else would you expect them to do in a situation where they are being suppresed as all hell, Israel is the Military super power in the middle east and that is why you havn't seen one surrounding country rush to the Palastinian's aid. *ISRAEL HAS TO BE A SUPER POWER IN THE MIDDLE EAST IF IT WASNT IT WOULD BE DESTROYED* 

Just look what happened when Egypt and Sudan invaded Israel years back, unprepared and outnumbered the Israel military absolutley obliterated the oposing forces in less then a week. *YES THEY DID LOOK AT HOW SMALL ISRAELS POPULATION IS COMPARED TO THOSE COUNTRYS* And now with nuculear weaponry and the US backing them there is no way the Palastinians are getting out of this situation until Israel has had their way and eliminated every single last one of them. *ISRAEL WILL LEAVE THEM ALONE IF THEY LEAVE ISRAEL ALONE*

I'm not defending or supporting either sides by the way, *YES YOU ARE TAKING THE SIDE OF THE TERRORIST PALESTINIANS* but calling Israel the victim here is acting a little oblivious of the entire situation here. Good luck to Palastine anyway from holding of their attack.. they will certainly need it *THEY DONT NEED LUCK THEY BROUGHT THIS ON THEMSELFS*


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

tooninoz said:


> It's taking it a bit far to accuse someone of having no education and then accuse someone else of being "antisemtic".
> The Jewish nation has been despised by some quarters for a lot longer than the state of Israel, and the Holocaust. Rightly or wrongly, it's not the point. Instead of trying to draw on emotional argument, have a look at the big picture - Israel is simply the vital outpost for the US in the Middle East.
> 
> It may also pay to look at more independent news sources too. You may see that Palestine has been blockaded for many months, with little in the way of food or medical supplies getting through. Red Cross and the UNHR are aggressively dealt with by the Israeli forces...something's got to give at some stage?
> ...


 

This issue is a religeous one and not a political one.

That is why it will never be resolved.


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## Veredus (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> This issue is a religeous one and not a political one.
> 
> That is why it will never be resolved.


 
You're certainly right about that...a religious issue started by those who invented the violent monotheistic abrahmic religions. So you so lovingly quote history...who was it that first suggested that anybody who did not follow Jehova should be slain? That would be the ancestors of the "Israelis". Perhaps the worst insult ever dealt to the human race was when the Jews invented the religion that has fractured into so many hateful fractions, all killing each other in the name of the same god.

As well you surprise me horsesrule....for someone who is always screaming government conspiracy you have a very ignorantly American government style view of this situation.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

*TOP 10 TIPS ON HOW TO BE AN ARRAFAT "PALESTINIAN" SUPPORTER*



[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #1 – Imagine that the Palestinians are fighting for a homeland that was taken away from them by the evil Jews.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]That’s right. The foundation to becoming and remaining a faithful pro-Arafat enthusiast is to intoxicate yourself with the belief that the Palestinians actually once owned a homeland that was, in turn, stolen by the greedy and parasitic Jews. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]While trying to convince yourself of this fantasy, ignore the historical fact that the Palestine Mandate was never a nation, let alone even a political entity of any kind. It was a "mandate" that was created by the British from the remnants of the Turkish Empire after World War I. 10% of it was given to the Jews and 90% was given to the Palestinian Arabs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The key here is that you should never worry about where 90% of Palestine actually is. Just obsess with the miniscule tiny bit of land that the Israelis "occupy" now. It’s not important that this land was never officially "owned" by anyone in the first place. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should also never reflect on whether all of your rage and hatred on this issue is proportional to the fact that Israel consists of 1% of the land in the Middle East.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Just get really angry that Israel is on territory that you think should be given to the Palestinians. And because you think this, then it automatically makes it right and historically correct.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should never wonder how your moral indignation on this issue fits with your complete indifference to the fact that Jordan occupies 80% of the land that made up the original Palestine Mandate. So if you really cared about the Palestinians, you would obviously be focusing your energy on protesting the crime being perpetrated by the Jordanians against the Palestinians. But the key here is that, well, deep down, you don’t really care about the Palestinians -– and neither should you. You must never admit this, but the Palestinians are only there for you to cynically exploit as pawns in your contributory effort to finish off what Adolph Hitler started.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]That’s right. You know what I’m talking about. And even the Palestinians are in on this with you. I mean, think about it: if the Palestinians themselves really cared about getting a homeland, don’t you think that they would be screaming about -- and fighting for -- the land that Jordan occupies? Don’t you think it is somewhat curious that Jordan has never, even for a second, been the target of a Palestine liberation movement? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Don’t you think it is a little bit curious that, in 1948, the Palestinian Arabs rejected an international resolution that would have established a Palestinian state, and instead focused all of their energies on destroying the new Jewish state?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You’re starting to get the picture now, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So be a smart and clever Arafat apologist. The overall objective of your life should be facilitating the killing of Jews and destroying the state of Israel. The last thing you should be doing is worrying about the Palestinians. At the same time, however, in terms of what you actually say in public, you must always discuss the Middle East "problem" on the assumption that you are agonizing over the Palestinians’ plight and how their entire "homeland" somehow lies in tiny little Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is also a very good idea that you always refer to the myth of how the Jews "stole" the Palestinian "homeland" in passing, because then it makes its reality appear to be a given. You can’t believe how effective this ploy can be, especially in the midst of people who know nothing about Middle East history. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So believe in yourself and just do it![/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #2 – Never question the cause of Palestinian terror.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Every time that a Palestinian blows himself up along with innocent Jewish civilians, including babies in carriages, you should shake your head in despair and say things like, "That poor Palestinian. But he simply had no choice. The Israelis have pushed his people beyond their means." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should always say things like this with a tone that implies that the "Israeli occupation" is the most oppressive reality in the world. Say things like, "The Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to them." Follow this up with sentences like, "The Jews have obviously forced the Palestinians into terrorism." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When you mouth these slogans, make sure to have a serious and sincere look on your face, otherwise the asininity of what you are saying might become more easily discernable. Maintaining a sober facial expression can be made easier if you convince yourself that the wars of 1973 and 1967 are irrelevant to the subject at hand.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Before Israel was attacked in 1973, it occupied less of the land that is now in dispute, and before 1967, it occupied none of it. In other words, the Arab terror that was unleashed against Israel in 1967 had nothing to do with the Israeli "occupation" of the West Bank and Gaza Strip because the "occupation" did not exist. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]From 1949-1967, Jordan had occupied the West Bank while Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip. But instead of the Arabs using terror against Egypt and Jordan to get them off of the Palestinians’ "land,", an Arab war of terror against Israel was launched in 1967. Israel won that war and grabbed both the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a security measure.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So why is it, you think, that Jordan’s annexation of the West Bank and Egypt’s annexation of the Gaza Strip from 1949-67 didn’t trigger any emotions in the Palestinians who lived in those territories? Why is it that not once, in all of those 18 years, was there even a sentence of indignation uttered by the Palestinians or by their "liberation" organization about the injustice done to the inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza Strip? Why did other Arab states say nothing about it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You know why. And this means that the terror against Israel has always been, and still is, caused by something other than Israelis being on any kind of "territory." I’ll give you six hints about what the real cause is connected to:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #1:* Hitler formulated the Final Solution because of it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #2:* it has something to do with why Israel cannot be found on a map in Palestinian geography classes. It’s also connected to why Palestinian textbooks teach Palestinian children that Jews are evil thieves who have taken Arab land and who must therefore be killed. The textbooks also tell the kiddies that suicide bombing is what Allah loves most, since that noble and holy activity is the most effective way of murdering Jews and "liberating" Palestine. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #3:* it’s why the Palestinian Authority has published the Arabic translation of _Mein Kampf_, and why that tract has reached number six on its best-seller list.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #4:* It is connected to why, in 1960, when the Israelis captured Adolph Eichmann, the government-run Saudi Arabian newspaper ran a story headlined: "Arrest Of Eichmann, Who Had The Honor Of Killing Six Million Jews."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #5:* it has something to do with the great honor and respect that is bestowed in the Middle East upon anyone who succeeds in killing Jews. For instance, if you blow yourself up along with some innocent Jewish mothers and babies, your picture will be plastered on posters throughout your hometown. Your family will acquire a revered place in society and will also receive $25,000 in American currency from Saddam Hussein. You, meanwhile, will get to fulfill all of your wildest and repressed sexual fantasies with 72 virgins in heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hint #6:* the whole matter is related to why Hashemi Rafsanjani, the eminent representative of "Iranian moderation," has boasted that once the Muslim world gets a hold of nuclear weapons, which he assures will be very soon, the Jewish "question" will be solved forever.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Now that you know what the real cause of Palestinian terror is, make sure to always deny it. Instead, consistently maintain to others that it is the result of Israelis being on "Palestinian territory."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #3 – Ignore the words of Palestinians.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]When you make your arguments for the Palestinian right to a homeland, always make sure to emphasize that the Palestinians acknowledge the right of Israel to exist. To make sure this works effectively, never mention, or ever even think about, what the Palestinians actually say themselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]For instance, never talk about the Palestinian Covenant of 1968, because it embodies the philosophical principles of the Palestinians themselves and says things that would shatter the foundation to all of your arguments. For instance, Article 19 affirms that, "The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of Israel is fundamentally null and void, whatever time has elapsed, because it is contrary to the wish of the people of Palestine and its natural right to its homeland." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Article 15 states that, "The liberation of Palestine, from the Arab viewpoint, is a national duty to repulse the Zionist, Imperialist invasion from the great Arab homeland and to purge the Zionist presence from Palestine."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Also ignore Articles 20 and 22, because they reject even the historical and religious ties of Jews to the Holy Land itself. And that is precisely why Palestinian children are yet to find the state of Israel on any maps in their geography classes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You also shouldn’t worry that Arafat has never repudiated the Articles in the Palestinian Covenant of 1968. This explains why, when speaking English to Western audiences, he always talks about how he acknowledges the right of Israel to exist. But when he speaks Arabic to Arab audiences, he does little else but boast about his successes in working toward the Palestinians’ most ambitious goal: to destroy the state of Israel. One only has to briefly listen to the Arab media, mosque sermons, and classroom and cafe conversations to gauge that this disposition represents a wide consensus in Arab society in general and in Palestinian society in particular.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thus, when you are trying to persuade someone about the good intentions of Arafat and the Palestinian Authority, and how they accept the existence of Israel, never mention what the Palestinians themselves talk about. You should most definitely stay away from the subject of the 1968 Palestinian Covenant, because this could cause you problems. If someone else brings it up, change topics immediately. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #4 – Imagine that Palestinians were, and are better off without Israel and the Israeli "occupation."*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should be constantly angry about the suffering of Palestinians and be convinced that it is the fault of Israel. Palestinian suffering should always be equated with Israeli responsibility. These two notions must be inseparable in your mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Palestinian suffering is definitely not the fault of Arafat or of all the Arab states – even though they have done everything in their power to make sure that the Palestinians do not receive a homeland. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]That’s right. So try not to reflect too much on why the Palestinians of the West Bank are barred from becoming citizens in the Arab world. When the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian administration, for instance, the Palestinians there were denied Egyptian citizenship and thereby remained stateless. This is exactly why the Palestinians are known as "refugees." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Arabs love their Palestinian brothers. It’s just that, well, they love them from a distance.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In any case, you should try your hardest to convince yourself that the Palestinians’ life under the Israeli "occupation" is the worst experience of any people under any regime in the history of the human race. The first step to believing this notion is to ignore the fact that Palestinians are much worse off in occupied Lebanon, where they are denied basic rights to employment, healthcare and government services –- unlike the Palestinians in Israel and in the "occupied" territories. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should also avoid the subject of how Kuwait ethnically cleansed all Palestinians (about 300,000 of them) just a decade ago, and how Jordanians slaughtered thousands of them after the 1967 war. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Try to imagine that all of this isn’t very relevant. And neither is the fact that the world community never said too much about these Arab atrocities. It’s okay when Muslim Arabs practice genocide against Palestinians. It’s only wrong when the Israelis oppress Palestinians in the effort to defend themselves from terror. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You also shouldn’t stress yourself about the racism against Arabs that this whole double standard implies. Indeed, by holding Jews up to a higher moral accountability than Arabs, the view that lets Arabs off the hook for oppressing their own brethren implies a civilizational inferiority to them -- and a civilizational superiority to Jews. But don’t think through this too much. You might get depressed after realizing that, deep down, just like a Leftist despises the "underclass" people for whom he purports to speak, so too you have smug contempt for the Arabs that you believe you represent in your self-alienated imagination. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The key, in general, is that you should just avoid the whole issue of how the Jews have treated the Palestinians much better than the Arabs have.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is also a very good idea for you to ignore the fact that Israel has given birth to an Arab citizenry inside Israel of more than one million people. This way you won’t have to wonder how it is that, as Israeli citizens, Arabs have more rights, privileges and opportunities than the citizens of any Arab state in the Middle East. Unlike their Arab brothers and sisters, Arab citizens in Israel vote in free elections and are themselves elected to the Israeli parliament. In other words, the only place where Arabs know democracy and a high standard of living is in a Jewish nation.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This is a hard pill to swallow for a person like you, who aspires to demonize Israel and to glorify the Arab world as the embodiment of true democracy and stupendous progress in world civilization.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]So what you have to do is visualize images of how Israel is the most evil nation on the face of the earth and how Arabs and Palestinians have endured unspeakable suffering because of it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #5 – Imagine that Israel controls the "occupied" territories for some bizarre, vague and sinister reason.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]That’s right: imagine that Israel controls the "occupied" territories because Jews have nothing better to do than to inflict pain. They think it’s in their interest to trigger terrorism against themselves, as well as to ignite the hatred of a large portion of the world’s population.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]With great moral indignation, you should say things like, "the Israelis need to get out of the occupied territories." Say this as if it is a really easy, simple and safe thing for the Israelis to do.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Never consider that the Israeli "occupation" of the territories in question might actually not be the greatest crime in world history. It might also not deserve immediate rectification. Sometimes land is confiscated when aggressive and terrorist states repeatedly attack their neighbors -- and lose. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]But this should not be your concern.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]What should be your concern is to say things that make Israel look as if it controls areas like the West Bank because Israelis need to fill the void of no longer being allowed to sacrifice and eat gentile babies in their religious rituals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #6 – Say that Arafat isn’t a terrorist.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should always say things like: "One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom-fighter." After that, say things like, "Arafat is a freedom-fighter."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You must always ignore that Arafat has provided sanctuary and support to Palestinian suicide bombers and terrorists of all stripes. Be very open-minded about how he has personally endorsed suicide bombings rhetorically and celebrated the cult of "martyrdom" and other forms of homicide.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And always make sure to announce things like, "Arafat has imprisoned militants." When you say this, don’t worry that the Palestinian "jails" that Arafat places "militants" in are notorious for their bars in the front and revolving doors at the back. Just tell people that Arafat is really trying to get terrorism under control. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Don’t lose any sleep over the fact that explosives of the specific type used by Palestinian suicide bombers have been found in Palestinian police stations all over the "occupied" territories. Also don’t concern yourself with the fact that 500 Palestinians were just recently arrested in and around Arafat's compound and that dozens of them were on Israel's lists of most-wanted terrorists. Arafat was obviously still trying his best to track these people down. The reason he couldn’t find them was that they were cleverly hiding in his office while he was desperately patrolling the West Bank looking for them.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]And by all means, deny to others, as well as to yourself, that connections between the Palestinian Authority and international Islamic terror organizations, including al-Qaeda, have now been established beyond any reasonable doubt. If you accept this reality, then your whole belief system will come crashing down.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Just look really sure of yourself and say things like, "Arafat isn’t a terrorist. He is a freedom fighter."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #7 – Imagine that Arafat has the interests of his own people in mind.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This is the key to being an effective apologist for Arafat. You must always tell people that your hero truly cares about his own people –- even though the history of his every move negates the possibility of this being the case.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A person that truly wanted the best for the Palestinian people would have embraced an offer that accepted 95% of the Palestinians’ negotiating demands and would have given the Palestinians their own sovereign state in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, more than 90 percent of the West Bank, and a capital in Jerusalem. That’s what Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered Arafat in 2000. But Arafat rejected the proposal, demanding, instead, the flooding of Israel with millions of Palestinians. He knew, as Israelis did, that such a development would destroy Israel as a Jewish state. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Arafat shrewdly understood that Israel could not, and would not, engage in self-destruction and this is how he succeeded in his main objective: to avoid the creation of a new Arab state and to annihilate the only Jewish one. That’s what the "Palestinian uprising," after all, is really all about.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is obvious, therefore, why Arafat has consistently stifled all Israeli efforts to improve the prosperity of the Palestinian people. He wants his people to bleed in misery and destitution. That way their suffering can be exploited in the Arabs’ suicide wars against Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Now the key for you, therefore, is to deny the obvious.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You know that the "Palestinian problem" is far more useful to Arafat than its solution will ever be. Arafat knows that peace with Jews is his own political suicide at best –- and his own death warrant at worst.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]What you have to do is look people in the eyes as honestly as you can and say things like, "Arafat is really trying to help his people." Say this as if you yourself have been talking to Arafat and that he tells you things that he wouldn’t confide in most people.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #8 – Say that Arab terrorism has nothing to do with jealousy.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is absolutely crucial that you consistently tell anyone you talk to that Israel is vehemently hated by the Arabs because of something that Israel has done to the Arabs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Never consider what the Arabs of the Middle East would do with all of their time if there were no Israel. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Never suspect that Middle Eastern Arabs spend such an inordinate amount of their daily life hating a nation that takes up 1% of land in the Middle East because they might have a little problem with envy and jealousy.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It might not be the easiest thing for Arabs to reconcile themselves with the reality that their culture has yet to produce one prosperous, functional and democratic society. Yet they see that the Jews have accomplished exactly that – in a tiny piece of land that was a desert fifty years ago. Indeed, the Jews have built the most powerful economy and the only industrial and democratic nation in the entire Middle East.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This is a very painful truth for Middle Eastern Arabs to accept. So as an Arafat apologist, your job is to completely ignore this phenomenon. You must fantasize that when Arabs jump up and down with ferocious rage for hours on end every day screaming "Death to Israel," that the solution to their rage is definitely _not_ to get a job, let alone a life of any kind. The solution lies in the Jews smartening up and stopping being so evil. If they did that, then obviously Arabs would find better things to do than spend ten hours a day, seven days a week, hollering at the top of their lungs and foaming at their mouths in the middle of the barren deserts that they have lived in for centuries.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You see: Arabs don’t fail in making progress because of any serious pathology in their personal lives and culture. No, they mope around in long robes and headscarves in medieval societies because of what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians. And yes, ok, these same Arabs never lifted a finger or mouthed a word of protest when the Palestinians received much harsher treatment from Arabs. But don’t think this through. Actually, if anyone ever points this out to you, just say that the Arabs _did_ protest the persecution of the Palestinians by other Arabs but that the Western press just didn’t report it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #9 – Say it’s in Israel’s interest to pursue "peace".*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should constantly say that it is in Israel’s interest to pursue "peace," even though all of the evidence suggests the exact opposite. More Israelis have died from terrorism since the signing of Oslo in 1993 than in the four decades before it. There have been more than 80 suicide bombings against Israel since the "peace process" began. Before Oslo, suicide bombings were almost non-existent. Each new atrocity against Israelis since 1993, meanwhile, has been hailed by the Palestinian media and the Palestinian Authority that controls it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]You should ignore facts such as these and make it a daily habit to say things like, "The Israelis should really try to make peace with Arafat. It’s in their interest." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Tip #10 – Shed yourself of any integrity you might have ever had.*[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In order for you to practice the previous nine tips successfully, you need to make sure that you rid yourself of any personal dignity or integrity that might ever have been a part of your character and personality. You have to be absolutely shameless and live by absolutely no ethical or moral standard of any kind. Otherwise you will not be able to lie to others, and to yourself, the way I instruct you to. Arafat supporters have done it effectively before you. But now you can do it the best. Be the best liar you can be. That way, you might yet become the best Arafat apologist on earth. You can do it![/FONT]


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> They are the victim look at what hitler did to the jews.
> 
> Your comments are antisemtic! And are offensive to anyone of the Jewish faith.



More non-jewish people died because of Hitler than jewish people,also last time i checked
the gays and gypsies didn't get their own country out of it... who's worse off..?

My comments aren't anti-semantic,and don't seem to be too offensive to "anyone of the jewish faith".
i don't have any real dislike for either the Israelis (which aren't just jewish btw) or Palestinians.
Comments posted that aren't in favor of Israel aren't automatically "anti-semitic" ... however
you do seem very "anti-arab" but thats ok yeah....their all just people.

I do however feel the Palestinians have been royally screwed, imagine the up roar if 
Australian Aboriginals just took land by force.. you wouldn't mind losing your home 
and see your whole family lose theirs.. i mean with your logic that would be fine right
considering the thousands of years of prior ownership the Aboriginals have here.


Why do you bother flooding threads with blatant propaganda? Cant you think for yourself.

Method makes some excellent points (in his own words no less), but you address none?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Veredus said:


> You're certainly right about that...a religious issue started by those who invented the violent monotheistic abrahmic religions. So you so lovingly quote history...who was it that first suggested that anybody who did not follow Jehova should be slain? That would be the ancestors of the "Israelis". Perhaps the worst insult ever dealt to the human race was when the Jews invented the religion that has fractured into so many hateful fractions, all killing each other in the name of the same god.
> 
> As well you surprise me horsesrule....for someone who is always screaming government conspiracy you have a very ignorantly American government style view of this situation.


 

You are being anti semetic

My view on this is a historical one and a religeous one. 

I believe the land belongs to Israel.


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

Why flood us with propaganda?


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

Aaahh gotta love APS debates!


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## hallie (Jan 5, 2009)

People kill people...

Unfortunately it is in our nature...

As long as there is good, there will asways be bad...

horserule, you are ranting...

people are entitled to their point of view, agree with it or not...


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Australis said:


> More non-jewish people died because of Hitler than jewish people,also last time i checked
> the gays and gypsies didn't get their own country out of it... who's worse off..?
> 
> My comments aren't anti-semantic,and don't seem to be too offensive to "anyone of the jewish faith".
> ...


 

I have no problem giving the Aboriginals back the land that was stolen from them.


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> But they do it all over the world as well, those double decker buses that got blown apart in London wasn't to get back at the Israelis was it? How about the twin towers?
> They are a barbaric bunch, all thanks to their ridiculous religion. That's why I back Israel.



Islam (what you refer to as the 'ridiculous religion' ) is actually a peaceful religion if practiced as intended. Have you actually looked into the teachings of Islam or are you just basing your opinions on what the media tells you?


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## tattoolizzie (Jan 5, 2009)

I doubt anyone on this board is sufficiently aware of the intricacies of this conflict - myself included - to comment on who's right or wrong. 

The people involved her on BOTH sides are all human beings who deserve to live their lives without fear of persecution. Violence and loss of life, on either side is tragic. 

I am surprised that APS is prepared to allow some of the outright racist posts appearing in this thread.


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## method (Jan 5, 2009)

Your view on this situation is quite mature isnt it Horsesrule, like i said I'm not supporting Palastine. If anything I am leaning more towards Israel's side but i was simply telling it like it is so theres no need to act like a child. You seem to be all for obliterating the Palastinians so I can see why you are so defensive about my comments, calling either side the victim will be and endless debate that will never end just like this war. If you don't like my comments please harden up and stop acting so one sided in something that has so many sides and reasons for what is happening.


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I have no problem giving the Aboriginals back the land that was stolen from them.



Even if that means everything you have ever known, and owned and several of your family members are wiped out.
All your left with is the clothes on your back? You would happily do that??


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> Islam (what you refer to as the 'ridiculous religion' ) is actually a peaceful religion if practiced as intended. Have you actually looked into the teachings of Islam or are you just basing your opinions on what the media tells you?



I thought their religion was that one where they claim you get so many virgins if you blow up a bunch of people? I obviously dont know what im talking about lol


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> This issue is a religeous one and not a political one.
> 
> That is why it will never be resolved.



What about Lebanese Christians? They were supporting Lebanon/Hezbollah too? 
As for not being political - surely you are kidding! The Jews are doing the US' bidding pure and simple. Israel has only slightly a larger population of Jews than the US. It's political Horsesrule.

As for the comment suggesting that Palestinians should go to Jordan... you'll find that hundreds of thousands have over the past 7 years in particular, and Jordan hasn't received the appropriate UN funding to support _those_ refugees. 

Israel will only be happy when Palestine is extinguished.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Israel takes up under 2% of the land in the midde east 

Or you could look at it like this arab land mass occupies 640 times more than the tiny little country of Israel.

But Israel is being greedy because they want to retake there holy land??

lmao


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> Islam (what you refer to as the 'ridiculous religion' ) is actually a peaceful religion if practiced as intended. Have you actually looked into the teachings of Islam or are you just basing your opinions on what the media tells you?


 
I have Mohommod the prophet married a child.

What would that make him ?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

tooninoz said:


> What about Lebanese Christians? They were supporting Lebanon/Hezbollah too?
> As for not being political - surely you are kidding! The Jews are doing the US' bidding pure and simple. Israel has only slightly a larger population of Jews than the US. It's political Horsesrule.
> 
> As for the comment suggesting that Palestinians should go to Jordan... you'll find that hundreds of thousands have over the past 7 years in particular, and Jordan hasn't received the appropriate UN funding to support _those_ refugees.
> ...


 

Palestine = Jordan look at history.

Jordan will always exist.


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

tattoolizzie said:


> I am surprised that APS is prepared to allow some of the outright racist posts appearing in this thread.



Muslim bashing is one of those 'OK' things to do. It makes you more truly Australian. That and forming your beliefs from what news.com and wikipedia spoon-feed you.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

tattoolizzie said:


> I doubt anyone on this board is sufficiently aware of the intricacies of this conflict - myself included - to comment on who's right or wrong.
> 
> The people involved her on BOTH sides are all human beings who deserve to live their lives without fear of persecution. Violence and loss of life, on either side is tragic.
> 
> I am surprised that APS is prepared to allow some of the outright racist posts appearing in this thread.


 

Islam is a religeon not a race therefor no one has made any "racist" posts.


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## method (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> Israel takes up under 2% of the land in the midde east
> 
> Or you could look at it like this arab land mass occupies 640 times more than the tiny little country of Israel.
> 
> But Israel is being greedy because they want to retake there holy land??


 
That makes it ok to obliterate an entire society of people including innocent civilians and children?

(Yes I know each side has masses of civilian casualties so dont get all uppety on that comment), but really how would you react if all Aboriginal people rose up in arms and slowly attempted to take back their rightful land and this was done by stomping on the white population, eventually till we were sqeezed into a tiny strip of land on the coast where we were unable to leave. Would you not fight back if it even included throwing rocks and fighting back with anything you can. (Again not supporting palastine, I'm simply debating your statements.)


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> I thought their religion was that one where they claim you get so many virgins if you blow up a bunch of people? I obviously dont know what im talking about lol



Unfortunately that is the impression given to majority of people via media outlets movies and tv shows etc.
The Quran is written in older style Arabic where one word can have several meanings. Extremists like use this to their advantage when translating, Islam is actually a humble religion, based on SUBMISSION and PURITY

http://www.1islam.net/dawah/islam.asp?c=53648


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

I guess if Aboriginals wanted to take there land back i would support them.

As long as they dont harm me id be ok with it.

I cant see Aboriginal people AND OR non aboriginal Australians turning themselfs into suicide bombers.


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> Islam is a religeon not a race therefor no one has made any "racist" posts.



And Israel is a COUNTRY not a RELIGION or RACE... so no one has made any anti-semantic posts either..?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Australis said:


> And Israel is a COUNTRY not a RELIGION or RACE... so no one has made any anti-semantic posts either..?


 


ANTI SEMITIC
"a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews."

Israel is a jewish country.


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## method (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I guess if Aboriginals wanted to take there land back i would support them.
> 
> As long as they dont harm me id be ok with it.
> 
> I cant see Aboriginal people AND OR non aboriginal Australians turning themselfs into suicide bombers.


 
Yes but they are fighting with what they can, it isnt like the palastines can build or receive tank support so they are doing what they can. But put yourself in a situation where you were forced into a strip and they were harming you, your family and everything you stood for. That is what is happening there, even if you supported their actions say you lived next door or down the street from another family of white Australian's who were part of an organisation or a cause to fight for what they believe is right (aka their freedom), one day an attack on that house by an air strike occurs killing everyone within the house and surround areas (remember how densley populated they are) and it just so happens one of your family members are killed in the attack (innocent and supportive of the cause just like you).

Tell me you would support their cause then? (Again extreme example but it helps put it in perspective, all religion and politics aside)


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I have Mohommod the prophet married a child.
> 
> What would that make him ?



The age of Consent to Marriage in Islam as well as as in the Christian bible is Puberty.

If a childs parents agree to the marriage of a child who wishes to be married at a younger age, consumation of the marriage must not occur until the girl reaches puberty and has had her menses, she is then seen as an adult.

That may not be the laws we have within our country, but it is the religious law.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> The age of Consent to Marriage in Islam as well as as in the Christian bible is Puberty.
> 
> If a childs parents agree to the marriage of a child who wishes to be married at a younger age, consumation of the marriage must not occur until the girl reaches puberty and has had her menses, she is then seen as an adult.
> 
> That may not be the laws we have within our country, but it is the religious law.


 

The girl was 6 years old!

Would that not make him a pedophile?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

method said:


> Yes but they are fighting with what they can, it isnt like the palastines can build or receive tank support so they are doing what they can. But put yourself in a situation where you were forced into a strip and they were harming you, your family and everything you stood for. That is what is happening there, even if you supported their actions say you lived next door or down the street from another family of white Australian's who were part of an organisation or a cause to fight for what they believe is right (aka their freedom), one day an attack on that house by an air strike occurs killing everyone within the house and surround areas (remember how densley populated they are) and it just so happens one of your family members are killed in the attack (innocent and supportive of the cause just like you).
> 
> Tell me you would support their cause then? (Again extreme example but it helps put it in perspective, all religion and politics aside)


 

They blow themselfs up in the name of "allah" they believe they will get 72 virgins in heaven.

They are not doing it for the land.

So to compare aboriginals is futile.


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## Earthling (Jan 5, 2009)

I originally posted this thread to show the graphic footage of people dieing, including children, hopeing that people would show some compassion and understanding of world events and be against the random wholesale blowing up of children and other innocents. 
I was obviousy wrong with so many of you. 

After reading some of your comments, Im so ashamed to call myself an Australian.

For those who do know what compassion for your fellow man means, I thank you for contributing to this thread.

Now I just have to wait for the mods to put this thread where it belongs.


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> The girl was 6 years old!
> 
> Would that not make him a pedophile?



No she was 9!
Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to the Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. 

People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

I feel for all the children who are dying over there but there parents could get them out of there. 

And there parents most likely support Hamas.

The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

Israel would not be attacking if Hamas had not been firing rockets into Israel towns and suburbs just like the one you and i live in.

So lets keep it in perspective.

Yes its sad that civillians are dying.

However it wouldnt be happening if those childrens parents never supported Hamas.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> Unfortunately that is the impression given to majority of people via media outlets movies and tv shows etc.
> The Quran is written in older style Arabic where one word can have several meanings. Extremists like use this to their advantage when translating, Islam is actually a humble religion, based on SUBMISSION and PURITY
> 
> http://www.1islam.net/dawah/islam.asp?c=53648



Then what do they blow themselves and others up for?
In Israel I know, but why over sea's? And is it true that they say (mind the spelling) "Allah achbad"
which means "glory to Allah" before they become flying mince?


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

becswillbe said:


> No she was 9!
> Aisha's parents were the ones who married her to the Prophet, and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced.
> 
> People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.


 

6 , 7, 8 , 9 Its all the same lol


He is a pedophile and if he had lived today in this country he would be in jail.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 5, 2009)

mmmm Homus


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> Then what do they blow themselves and others up for?
> In Israel I know, but why over sea's? And is it true that they say (mind the spelling) "Allah achbad"
> which means "glory to Allah" before they become flying mince?


 


Yes they do it actually means god is good or great or something like that.

The day will come when we have suicide bombers in Australia.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 5, 2009)

Ramsayi said:


> mmmm Homus



Hahaha, that's what I was thinking reading all of that.


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## =bECS= (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> 6 , 7, 8 , 9 Its all the same lol
> 
> 
> He is a pedophile and if he had lived today in this country he would be in jail.



Like i said, it was widely practiced in those days, it was considered normal.
He didn't live *today *in this country, he lived in Arabia hundreds of years ago.

Its a waste of time trying to get you to see both sides of the argument, you are clearly set in your ways.

I can see the point of view from both sides, but i dont agree with Israels heavy handed tactics, and blocking aid etc


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## Ishah (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> 6 , 7, 8 , 9 Its all the same lol
> 
> 
> He is a pedophile and if he had lived today in this country he would be in jail.


 
Well technically not really... a 6 or 7 year old is unlikely to have hit puberty, but an 8 or 9 year old... its not so rare for them to have hit puberty by then. And hence still abiding by their religious laws of consent etc... My nan got her menses (or what ever you want to call it) at 8 or 9years old...and I know a few others who have hit puberty as early as that too...

Not saying that its right to do so or anything tho...Merely pointing something out...


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## Renagade (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> 6 , 7, 8 , 9 Its all the same lol
> 
> 
> He is a pedophile and if he had lived today in this country he would be in jail.


 
He is only a pedophile in western culture's eyes. that doesnt make hime a pedophile. 


watching those vids makes me wonder how hard it must be to NOT be an athiest. I just cant imagine believing in a god who lets that happen.


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## tattoolizzie (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> Islam is a religeon not a race therefor no one has made any "racist" posts.


 
So to vilify Arabs is not racism?

Any way, it's all semantics (pardon the pun). 

Whether derogatory comments are based on religious orientation or ethnic group makes no difference. Both are abhorrent.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Renagade said:


> He is only a pedophile in western culture's eyes. that doesnt make hime a pedophile.
> 
> 
> watching those vids makes me wonder how hard it must be to NOT be an athiest. I just cant imagine believing in a god who lets that happen.


 

God doesnt let it happen.

If you read the teaching of religeon God gave man the choice. 

Man can do extremely good and kind deeds. Man can also commit evil deeds.


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## Earthling (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I feel for all the children who are dying over there but there parents could get them out of there.
> 
> And there parents most likely support Hamas.
> 
> ...


 
It truely amazes me how some people are so ignorant of the facts.
If someone came on APS and said all temps for snakes should be 45c, they would be shot down in flames. However, you come on here and state obvious untruths as truths, that even a basic read from Wiki will tell you are untrue, yet a few people will support you! And you stick to your guns!

Hamas is a political party. Because Liberals lost here in Oz, does that mean I support labour? Obviously not! 

Theirs a friggin great wall built around your country and if you try and get out you get shot. Yet you say they should get out if they have children.....ignorance is not bliss.

Lets keep it in perspective, you know very little about the situation and have been spoon fed Pro Jew Rot as many westerners have. 
Open your eyes and look!


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Earthling said:


> It truely amazes me how some people are so ignorant of the facts.
> If someone came on APS and said all temps for snakes should be 45c, they would be shot down in flames. However, you come on here and state obvious untruths as truths, that even a basic read from Wiki will tell you are untrue, yet a few people will support you! And you stick to your guns!
> 
> Hamas is a political party. Because Liberals lost here in Oz, does that mean I support labour? Obviously not!
> ...


 

Hamas is a terrorist party and is listed as a terrorist group by most of the world.

They can flee to Jordan.

My eyes are open and i see whats going on.

I believe the land belongs to the Jews i believe the Muslims simply want to exterminate the Jewish State of Israel.

Why is it that there is only 1 Jewish county in the world and they are not left alone? That says something in iteself.

Also Judism was around well before islam.


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> Israel is a jewish country.



Its just a country, your the main one here, on this thread defining
and judging people by their race and or religion... or even what
side of a fluid border they reside.

Your only retort is calling people anti-semitic :lol:

Also you make out Arabs as super terrorists... theres plenty of Israel terrorists
jewish terrorists, Christian terrorists Caucasian terrorists, Asian terrorists 
probably terrorists for most races and creeds... brace yourself there might even
be Australian Liberal Party terrorists.... :shock: :lol: .. theres certainly communist
terrorists.. theres even Israel terrorist who will assassinate people trying to bring
peace to the region!


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Australis said:


> Its just a country, your the main one here, on this thread defining
> and judging people by their race and or religion... or even what
> side of a fluid border they reside.
> 
> ...


 

I dont remember the last time i heard about a christian or jewish or caucasian terrorist being a suicide bomber.

I guess though its the evil media hiding the truth.

I should say many of these posts are anti semetic and blatantly breach the forum rules.

Rule 1 "Rude or racist remarks and hurtfully sarcastic comments will be deleted and you will be penalised. "

As a zionist and supporter of the jewish people i find many of these posts anti semetic and anti jew.


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## waruikazi (Jan 5, 2009)

Australis said:


> Its just a country, your the main one here, on this thread defining
> and judging people by their race and or religion... or even what
> side of a fluid border they reside.
> 
> ...



Mate you need to remember that Horsesrule has a very keen and passionate interest in politics and religion. She likes to take the side of the people who are most like her in a religious and racial sense. If the had some conflict with the Christians she'd be attacking the Jews. 

War is bad, i don't believe it is ever necessary. Palestinian terror attacks are abhorrent, Israeli military action is abhorrent. And accepting civilian collateral is absolutely disgusting.


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

Renagade said:


> He is only a pedophile in western culture's eyes. that doesnt make hime a pedophile.
> 
> 
> watching those vids makes me wonder how hard it must be to NOT be an athiest. I just cant imagine believing in a god who lets that happen.



And there's no suggestion that he had sex with them either I may add. He just married them.

Having said that Renegade, being an atheist is almost the perfect way to live. It's a freedom that you gave yourself. You are your own 'god' that determines your own destiny. If you die tomorrow, then that's it. What you do tomorrow is of your own free will.

Freedom of thought, the freedom to understand that there is no god and no crippling expectations, no need to donate money to extremely rich, tax-avoiding corporations (Catholic church, Anglican church etc). The downside is that we atheists have to put up with Pentecostal christians and their warmongering, anti-humanity ways (Bush, Peres, Howard, Rudd et al) and are forced to vote! 

Best of all, no guilt. No baby Jesus, no Mohammed, no rubbish. It gives you the chance to live your own life ethically and humanely. It gives you the chance to live as a human, not an ignorant hater, nor a supporter of inhumanity, nor a foolish sheep that accepts everything because they are told too...
You get to sit back and watch all the dullards p*ssing in the wind....
We're all gonna end up in a worms belly anyway


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## waruikazi (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I dont remember the last time i heard about a christian or jewish or caucasian terrorist being a suicide bomber.
> 
> I guess though its the evil media hiding the truth.
> 
> ...



As a supporter of multiculturalism and acceptance *I find you and your hateful attitudes xenophobic!*


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> As a supporter of multiculturalism and acceptance *I find you and your hateful attitudes xenophobic!*


 

hatefull?? bizarre.

I dont hate anyone.


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> I dont remember the last time i heard about a christian or jewish or caucasian terrorist being a suicide bomber..



Terrorism is terrorism, it doesn't have to be a suicide bombing, which isn't an exclusively terrorist act itself.

Christian extremest groups who plot and carry out terrorist bombings on abortion clinics are still terrorists.
Lavon Affair where jewish terrorists planted bombs in Egypt (including American buildings) and tried to
blame Arabs, a few more incidents like this were Arabs were framed (no doubt this goes both ways).
Caucasian terrorists, well theres a lovely little place called Ireland, you''ll find your fill there...



.


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## horsesrule (Jan 5, 2009)

Oh dear.

So you find a few examples and compare it to hundreds of examples.


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## Australis (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> So you find a few examples and compare it to hundreds of examples.



I'm not comparing it to anything.


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## elapid66 (Jan 5, 2009)

bahahahaha:lol: :lol: there is no god only space ships


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## tooninoz (Jan 5, 2009)

horsesrule said:


> As a zionist and supporter of the jewish people i find many of these posts anti semetic and anti jew.



Ah ok... so you had a vested interest all along, yet only now you choose to disclose it. (we all knew it but didn't want to be accused of the usual jew-hating bile that your ilk trots out on a regular basis).
Hopefully you'll extend your compassion as far as the children that were killed by Israelis? I mean, marrying one and killing one wouldn't be that far removed from your sensibilities would it? :?


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## Kersten (Jan 5, 2009)

It's interesting (read: ignorant) to read that the fact that people are suicide bombers makes them "worse" than any other terrorist or relgious zealot. Dead is dead is dead. The fact that the person who killed these people also killed themselves in the process doesn't make it worse at all.

So Zionism and Judaism are the cause du jour now, that's great. Tomorrow it'll be animal rights, later tonight no doubt it'll be something else again. Must be great to be so passionate and knowledgeble. Well.....passionate anyway. Or is that just loudmouthed and in need of a worthwhile occupation.

I don't even know why I'm bothering. You can't argue logic with someone who's not interested in doing anything other than read their own words on a screen.


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## FAY (Jan 5, 2009)

I feel that this is a very passionate subject and people get offended by other peoples comments.....so I think best to close it...


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## Slateman (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree


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