# Would you like to keep an Oenpelli python?



## Serpent_Gazeux (Dec 27, 2012)

So I've just been browsing all the various python breeders website and came a across this little beauty!!! link removed but google Gavin Bedford + Oenpelli python if interested. 

I'm sure most of you experienced keepers already know about this but I didn't. Now that I do I must say that if did have a spare 15k to donate I would be all over this.

My question to the board is, how successful do you think Gavin Bedford will be in for-filling his Oenpelli Python dream? 

Also, it's quite overwhelming how bad most of the python breeders websites are. :?


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## Variety (Dec 27, 2012)

Not sure if you're permitted to post that website,

This is a massive oppurtunity to all serious breeders and im sure most of the heavy weights would have contacted gavin personally already.
I would love to keep a yearling but they get far to big so if given the oppurtunity and lets prerent they're as common as a RSP or something i would pass, thats just me

The oppurtunity to be one of the first to own them would be the only thing that would apeal to me as a keeper,


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## fourexes (Dec 27, 2012)

> "It seems a few people have a problem with the prices tag, I say bugger off then. The reason the tag is so high is to cover expenses and also I'd say to make sure they go to the right people and not some joe blow I've got a big snake kind of person. It's obvious half of you's complaining about the price have no insight into reptiles as even morphs of common captive species often start at double that. Do your research first before you waste precious oxygen."
> *The real deal*


As much as I kind of agree, I think that's a bit of a pompous attitude, did he go out looking for the elusive snake for the sake of procreation or just to make a quick buck? Ethical breeding always presents soo many grey questions I tend to think I'll stay away from it.

It will be great to lift the numbers though.... if people can afford them & have the brains to breed them which might prove the knife in the back. It always disgusts me people that charge anywhere near or over 10k for a snake, it just doesn't take that much to set up unless your in a commercial operation in which case you will have the numbers to not charge a high one off price, thats how business works. I understand there is alot of work and heartache in breeding, particularly rare specimens but still, in such cases it's meant to be for the purpose of fauna preservation not fiscal stimulus.

I work hard to but don't charge exorbitant rates otherwise I would loose my business. Everyone is getting too greedy these days. As much as I would love one, 5 meters or not, I could buy a car for that... even a brand new one. Unless you were a rich useless so and so with more money than brains and a big show off attitude I don't see him selling many.

And yes, much rarer than an RSP.


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## saximus (Dec 27, 2012)

Variety said:


> assuming they're as common as a RSP or something i would pass, thats just me



They are nowhere near as common. There are about two in known captivity. 

Gavin's project is admirable but it will be years before it is even known if they will ever be available to the "common" hobbyist. He first needs to find a pair (I believe he only has two males at the moment) then needs to prove that he can provide suitable conditions to get them to breed in captivity. I think the offer of 15k for the possibility of maybe owning a pair in a few years isn't the right way to go about it. He should just call it what it is (a donation to his research) and have the fact that you may get to own them as secondary. The way it is now, it seems like paying for a promise that nobody can guarantee will be fulfilled.


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## Variety (Dec 27, 2012)

saximus said:


> They are nowhere near as common. There are about two in known captivity.



Which is why i said assuming, sorry it could of been percieved two different ways. Of course i would love to be among one of the first to own a type of python but if they were as common as any other snake they would'nt apeal to me as a keeper.


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## saximus (Dec 27, 2012)

fourexes said:


> As much as I kind of agree, I think that's a bit of a pompous attitude, did he go out looking for the elusive snake for the sake of procreation or just to make a quick buck? Ethical breeding always presents soo many grey questions I tend to think I'll stay away from it.
> 
> It will be great to lift the numbers though.... if people can afford them & have the brains to breed them which might prove the knife in the back. It always disgusts me people that charge anywhere near or over 10k for a snake, it just doesn't take that much to set up unless your in a commercial operation in which case you will have the numbers to not charge a high one off price, thats how business works. I understand there is alot of work and heartache in breeding, particularly rare specimens but still, in such cases it's meant to be for the purpose of fauna preservation not fiscal stimulus.



This case is special though. The money goes to his research and his expeditions to find the snakes. He doesn't actually own a breeding pair yet (as far as I know) so the costs you are assuming he has don't exist yet. I think he has sunk much more money into the project than he is asking to breed them so, in this particular case, I think your points are a bit invalid/incorrect


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## fourexes (Dec 27, 2012)

fair enough saximus, were all entitled to an opinion and lets face it, you would be more educated than I in regards to snakes lol. Been at it a fair bit longer. 

Though my point is, if I wanted to go chasing mermaids, I wouldn't expect people to pay me for siblings before I could breed them.... or found them for that matter. Your previous post was spot on.


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## abnrmal91 (Dec 27, 2012)

As far as I know Gavin only has 1 at the moment and it's a female. I haven't spoken to him in a while so don't know about him finding anymore. I hope to own one eventually.


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## fourexes (Dec 27, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> As far as I know Gavin only has 1 at the moment and it's a female. I haven't spoken to him in a while so don't know about him finding anymore. I hope to own one eventually.



As far as I've heard, which is from more sources than one, he only has males.


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## abnrmal91 (Dec 27, 2012)

fourexes said:


> As far as I've heard, which is from more sources than one, he only has males.


Quote from this thread post #102 http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...ion-42/like-buy-oenpelli-python-170775/page/7
"Hello All, After more time, energy, blood and tears than I care to acknowledge the Oenpelli Project is finally happening. I am delighted to say that a friend and I caught the very first python held legally in private hands at around 11pm on Saturday the 24th of March in the middle of Arnhemland. She is around 2.3 metres and AMAZING in every way. While not possessing the bright gold and black of a Jungle carpet, the broken brown and white pattern of the night colours were sensational. To hold it was like velvet as the scales are soft like a GTP. As many of you will know I am taking a couple of people out looking for them in May and hold high hopes that they will be rewarded with a find like this as well, not to mention seeing some of the most amazing country on the planet. If you want to know more about the trips out to Arnhemland in May 10-13 I still have one vacancy for an intrepid herp tourist. To all those who have helped and who have believed in this project you have my sincere thanks. For me it is a complete honour to work with a magical animal and the Traditional Owners from whose country this animal has come and bring it into the herp world. I hope you will all support this project and let me just say that it is still some way from becoming a breeding reality but Saturday was a huge start. Please feel free to contact me via my web site and I will do my best to respond. (Albino Python - Australia's Amazing Albino Pythons and Snakes | Albino Snakes Pythons Gavin Bedford Darwin Australia)
Cheers
Gavin Bedford"

I know Gavin personally as I went out with him looking for some Oenpelli's you may want to have a look at this thread.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...5373/oenpelli-trip-herping-photos-pic-186614/

I prefer to get the facts from the actual source.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh look a female Oenpelli


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## jedi_339 (Dec 27, 2012)

While there may only be two in known captivity, there are a few other illegal animals out there. I believe there might even be an attempted pair/trio however the success is probably similar to everyone elses historical breeding attempts. 




saximus said:


> They are nowhere near as common. *There are about two in known captivity. *
> 
> Gavin's project is admirable but it will be years before it is even known if they will ever be available to the "common" hobbyist. He first needs to find a pair (I believe he only has two males at the moment) then needs to prove that he can provide suitable conditions to get them to breed in captivity. I think the offer of 15k for the possibility of maybe owning a pair in a few years isn't the right way to go about it. He should just call it what it is (a donation to his research) and have the fact that you may get to own them as secondary. The way it is now, it seems like paying for a promise that nobody can guarantee will be fulfilled.


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## mrkos (Dec 27, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Gavin Bedford the main reason we now have Kimberly rock monitors in captivity in Australia. If anyone can introduce the oenpeli to our hobby its Gavin of course prices are going to be high to begin with personally if I had 15 grand to burn I would go for it


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## saintanger (Dec 27, 2012)

i hope they do start breeding them so we can keep them in captivity i love the way they look. i would not spend $15,000 on a python just cause its rare in captivity. i'd wait 5-8 years wen alot of people are breeding and they will be selling for under 2,000. just like albino darwins look at what they cost 10 years ago and what they cost now.


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## No-two (Dec 27, 2012)

saintanger said:


> just like albino darwins look at what they cost 10 years ago and what they cost now.



What did they cost 10 years ago? 

I wouldn't pay 15k for the potential to own them. Once the animals are available I'm sure there will be more takers at a fairly high price. You have to remember how much has gone into this project so far and what it's costing those involved, as has been mentioned, its essentially a donation with prospects to own some if all goes well. 

They can't sustain high prices for a long period though so the investors are limited. They're fairly dull animals so the price is in the rarity which won't last... 

Peter Krauss bred them years ago, I'm sure they won't be extremely hard to reproduce once the animals are of size/age and settled.


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## saintanger (Dec 27, 2012)

No-two said:


> What did they cost 10 years ago?
> 
> I wouldn't pay 15k for the potential to own them. Once the animals are available I'm sure there will be more takers at a fairly high price. You have to remember how much has gone into this project so far and what it's costing those involved, as has been mentioned, its essentially a donation with prospects to own some if all goes well.
> 
> ...



they cost more than 15k and now you can buy a hatchie for $750.


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Dec 27, 2012)

From sxr... "As I understand the story, she was originally found about sixteen years ago in a caravan park on the outskirts of Darwin. A lady was washing the dishes in her caravan when she looked up and saw a strange little python wrapped around the curtain. The find was reported to the Parks and Wildlife Commission and Blondie was saved to become a resident of the Territory Wildlife Park, about 40 minutes drive south of Darwin. Seven years later Blondie came into my possession to begin a breeding program"
Have albinos been available for ten years?


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## saintanger (Dec 27, 2012)

i have read threads on here dated back to 2003 regarding albino darwin prices thats why i said 10 years. but even if it was 9 years look at the price drop. same goes for albino olives and rough scaled pythons.

wen theirs something new for sale and no one else has it you can put what ever price on it but after 5-8 years wen others are breeding them the price dropes dramatically.


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## No-two (Dec 27, 2012)

Can you tell me where you could purchase them 10 years ago and how you know they were 15k? 

They were only released to the public in 2005 or 2006 from what I remember.

Roughies are similar to how these will be. They're not the prettiest eye catching snake and were never going to sustain the price they were set at in the beginning as the price is in the rarity. The albinos were selling at 5k for a few years. 

Albino olives will probably remain above a few k for some years to come as their harder to breed and the market isn't flooded like with carpets. They still fetch 3.5-4k each.


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## JasonL (Dec 27, 2012)

No, too big, too much heat and food.


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## wokka (Dec 27, 2012)

I will be surprised if Gavin has a pair suitable for breeding inside of 5 years. Given their size it is unlikely that any offspring will breed for another 3-4 years so it will be a fair bit different to the population explosion of rsps and carpets. I expect that Oenpellis are also intermitent breeders, taking a year or so off between clutches, and so it will be a long time until large numbers are available.


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## saintanger (Dec 27, 2012)

No-two said:


> Can you tell me where you could purchase them 10 years ago and how you know they were 15k?
> 
> They were only released to the public in 2005 or 2006 from what I remember.
> 
> ...



this thread proves they were being breed 10 years ago
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/albino-carpet-pythons-21098/

also the bloke i bought my albino off said he has been breeding them for 9 years and that his first clutch he sold for 15k each. 

now if you need to know any more PM me so this thread gets back on track. thanks


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## sniffmylizard (Dec 27, 2012)

How much where a pair of RSP's a few years ago????? 
How much are they now?

Gavin has sunk a lot of his own money into this project and has spent more than 1300 hours in the field. Regardless of price he is trying ensure this species is saved and maybe one day they can be reintroduced. Oenpelli's are obviously few and far between. If you look at the impact of bushfire, cane toads feral cats and dogs in these areas it is a race against time before they are totally gone. People like Gavin should be respected and applauded because they are the ones doing something on a large scale to ensure the survival of threatened species.
Is the government in the NT doing anything about the survival of threatened species? Not that I can see. In Darwin you don’t need to do any land studies before clearing bushland if it is going to be used for business or farming. The bull dozers come in and take out the last breeding pair of whatever animal was there. Gone just like that.
Have look at the impact on the larger monitor species and frilled neck lizards around the top end. They are almost nonexistent and are totally extinct in areas that were previously well populated. To see a frill neck in Darwin you have to drive around the suburbs near Casuarina to see one. To see a Varanus Panoptes you have to go to East Point. This is because the local people have done a great job of curving the population of the cane toad and there is cane toad fencing and traps around East Point Reserve.
I spend a lot of time in the bush and can’t remember the last time I saw either one of these species running around. A few years ago it was a very different story. 
If Gavin is successful with this program in a couple of years time Oenpelli’s will be available to everyone just like the Roughies are now. People will be able to own them for a reasonable price and that will also reduce the risk of people taking them from the wild. 
If money was available for funding these projects from the Government this would not even be up for discussion. 
So well done to the people like Gavin Bedford who dedicate their lives to wildlife and its survival.


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## No-two (Dec 27, 2012)

That thread proves nothing but my point to be honest. Perhaps you should read the whole thing. I doubt you yourself were even around when the albino carpets actually came on the market let alone 10 years ago. Unless you bought yours from Simon Stone I doubt he's been breeding them for 9 years. 

Im not trying to take anything away from what Gavin is doing, this is not the only project he has ever embarked on. 15k for a pair probably isn't a bad price for the first animals, it is however when you're not garunteed anything.


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## Harvez (Dec 27, 2012)

Looks like an interesting project, wish him the best of luck! Would love to keep one myself just not quite sure i could justify the price!


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## FAY (Dec 27, 2012)

A lot of man hours and money is needed for this project. You can only fly in to the right spots by helicopter.
I do not know why people are carrying on at the price they will be if a pair ever breeds...more than fair for the time and effort I would say.


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## Shaggz (Dec 28, 2012)

jedi_339 said:


> While there may only be two in known captivity, there are a few other illegal animals out there. I believe there might even be an attempted pair/trio however the success is probably similar to everyone elses historical breeding attempts.



If these pair/trio were illegally obtained and you know the whereabouts of them maybe the person with them needs to be dobbed in. Apart from introduced species helping to kill them off Poaching is another factor in the absolute minimal numbers out there so maybe these specimens should be taken away from the illegal owners and donated to the people that have taken the time and expense of going through the right channels.


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## Burnerism (Dec 28, 2012)

How many of these do you honestly think are been keeped in illegal collections? My bet is sweet bugger all.


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## Renenet (Dec 28, 2012)

While I couldn't afford a pair at that price, I'd certainly consider buying one when and if the price comes down. That's if their temperaments are as gentle as I've heard - I'm not sure how people know that since they've rarely been held in captivity before - and if I have the space.


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## getarealdog (Dec 28, 2012)

Just on the albino darwins, saw them for sale back in 2007 in Europe at a reptile show-e-bay gotta luv it! Wish Gavin the best of luck with this project, price doesn't matter you want it you will find the $$$. For me 15k-thats a lot of outdoor pits with Tiger snakes, RBB's & Copperheads!


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## solar 17 (Dec 28, 2012)

fay said:


> a lot of man hours and money is needed for this project. You can only fly in to the right spots by helicopter.
> I do not know why people are carrying on at the price they will be if a pair ever breeds...more than fair for the time and effort i would say.



plus 1


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Dec 28, 2012)

I would own them because they intrigue me. Just like I own rough scale pythons. They are of herpetological significance and its sad that so few realise it.


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## Firedrake (Dec 28, 2012)

At least you lot will get the choice whether or not to put money into this project, people living in WA don't even get a thought in this unless we aim to relocate as soon as he does produce anything! IMO all new species to the pet trade will be extremely costly to begin with, but without some of that money up front how do you expect the people who do go out and collect said new species to do so? They have lives as well I'm sure, and unfortunately nobody has hybridized a productive money tree yet so I'm sure every donation counts, if he's offering something at the end of it, to me that would be a bonus! How much money do people give to foreign charities and the like every year for not even a thankyou?
If I had 15k spare, provided I could get proof of what he's doing with it, I'd be more than willing to share, especially if I could go with him, I think it would be an amazing opportunity.
But that's just me, we are all entitled to our own opinions. I hope he does find what he's looking for and everybody gets to benefit from it in a few years.


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## PilbaraPythons (Dec 28, 2012)

Gavin needs to bite the bullet and get in very hardcore experienced python hunters. Call me naive but I think the project (which I think is a extremely worthy one) would steam roll ahead then.


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## abnrmal91 (Dec 28, 2012)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Gavin needs to bite the bullet and get in very hardcore experienced python hunters. Call me naive but I think the project (which I think is a extremely worthy one) would steam roll ahead then.


You do realise that Gavin is a very very experienced python hunter (I prefer herpetologist) the biggest constraint is access to the land. To gain access requires a helicopter from Jabiru at the moment. Helicopters are around $1200 a hour with the trip taking about 40mins each way, depending on people and gear it takes 2 trips (so fairly expensive not including gear and supplies). Gavin has put a lot of time and effort into this project, more then most people realise. The land he is searching is perfect but almost too perfect. You can look in the right places at the right time but you need to be lucky to find them out and about. The Oenpelli blends into its environment very well, their colour is exactly the same colour as the rock caves and crevasse which they live in/around. They apparently shelter at the base of fig trees which are silver to grey so at night they look the same. This project is not a money making scheme or a scam.


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## longqi (Dec 28, 2012)

It appears one other constraint is the relatively very small area he has to search in


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## solar 17 (Dec 28, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> You do realise that Gavin is a very very experienced python hunter (I prefer herpetologist) the biggest constraint is access to the land. To gain access requires a helicopter from Jabiru at the moment. Helicopters are around $1200 a hour with the trip taking about 40mins each way, depending on people and gear it takes 2 trips (so fairly expensive not including gear and supplies). Gavin has put a lot of time and effort into this project, more then most people realise. The land he is searching is perfect but almost too perfect. You can look in the right places at the right time but you need to be lucky to find them out and about. The Oenpelli blends into its environment very well, their colour is exactly the same colour as the rock caves and crevasse which they live in/around. They apparently shelter at the base of fig trees which are silver to grey so at night they look the same. This project is not a money making scheme or a scam.


What a great "positive" post obviously some jealous "negative" people in this thread, l wouldn't know Gavin if l fell over him but by gee l hope he's successfull, a lot of critics on this thread of the people like Snake Ranch (rsp's) at least these people advance our hobby and not just sit back and whinge about someone might make the odd dollar after a lot of time and effort WELL GOOD ON THEM "IF" and thats a big "IF" THEY DO........solar 17


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## Echiopsis (Dec 28, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> You do realise that Gavin is a very very experienced python hunter (I prefer herpetologist) the biggest constraint is access to the land. To gain access requires a helicopter from Jabiru at the moment. Helicopters are around $1200 a hour with the trip taking about 40mins each way, depending on people and gear it takes 2 trips (so fairly expensive not including gear and supplies). Gavin has put a lot of time and effort into this project, more then most people realise. The land he is searching is perfect but almost too perfect. You can look in the right places at the right time but you need to be lucky to find them out and about. The Oenpelli blends into its environment very well, their colour is exactly the same colour as the rock caves and crevasse which they live in/around. They apparently shelter at the base of fig trees which are silver to grey so at night they look the same. This project is not a money making scheme or a scam.



That may well be true, but hes only one man. Having the money to go on the trip doesn't make you the best person for the job. Let the investors invest and the herpers herp. I'm sure there's plenty of real herpers (as opposed to arm chair herpers and breeders) that would take on the job for nothing more than the experience. I know I would. I fully support what Gavin is trying to do but I'm not convinced the methods are sound. Good luck to him all the same.


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## Specks (Dec 28, 2012)

He cant just drive somewhere and spend days searching for these
At this point he only has his one permitted area to go and it is only accessible by helicopter
Having gone out on a trip with gavin looking for them it is by no means easy
Time is what it takes and for a busy man like Gav time isn't free
I have moved to darwin now and will be putting more time with gavin to hopefully find the elusive Dropbears
He only has one female and she is relatively young
They take a long time to mature from what peter Krauss has said and even with a pair they wont breed every year. They are slender snakes and wouldn't be able to sustain themselves on that kind of breeding cycle
People who don't know should sit back, shut it and let a man who is doing something do what he does. Unlike the haters he is actually doing something
Easy to have an opinion when you have no say on the matter or knowledge of it for that matter.

Thanks Scott


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## PilbaraPythons (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm talking about getting equipment and supplies in the area that last specimen was caught so that a few hardcore fit keen experienced herpers can sustain themselves in that area for 3 solid months and spot with the best gear available every night, dusk until 3am every night. That’s how I would attack it.
Commercializing this operation it may get him there eventually and this just may very well be a straight out financial necessity on his part but it sounds like it isn’t the fastest approach. Let be real, anybody with no experience could simply pay for a trip and a poke around but unless they really are fit and have a well thought out hardcore plan. I’m not so sure this is going to be quick result ( I sure hope I am wrong though). Regardless of how it’s done, I am very much looking forward to seeing these beautiful pythons established within the hobby and sincerely wish Gavin the best with it.


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## blakewilson (Dec 28, 2012)

Hey just wondering if someone can upload some HQ shots of an adult specimen


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## Specks (Dec 28, 2012)

Pilbra pythons well said might i say
With new plans that gavin has instore it may become a heap easier to spend time out there cause there is something on the horizon atm dont you worry
I myself will hope to be spending some serious time on this myself in the future
I will put myself on the podium and say this project will succeed, with time, persistence and a herpers will


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## FAY (Dec 28, 2012)

Fly Austin Stevens in, he seems to find everything and anything, no problem


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## Specks (Dec 28, 2012)

FAY said:


> Fly Austin Stevens in, he seems to find everything and anything, no problem



He would ask to borrow Gavins for the filming session and do it within 10 km of the cbd but do a fly over of escarpment in Arnhem land and dropping him off


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## JasonL (Dec 29, 2012)

Personally I think asking people to pay for you to go herping is a joke, no matter what the expense.. Plenty of people have found them, and some with little effort, but that aside, if people are willing to put up some money to help Gavin, or to take the risk of maybe one day owning a few Oens, then thats between them and Gavin, and good on them both... getting these giant pythons in the hobby will be great! but I look forward to seeing how fast they pop up OS


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## Specks (Dec 29, 2012)

yes plenty of people have found them
But permits to collect these animals cannot be obtained for those areas
That is why he must go where he goes to get them in a small selected area that he chose where he could


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## PilbaraPythons (Dec 29, 2012)

I'd like to hear abit more from the people who have been on one of these paid expeditions e.g how did you go about looking for them ,collectively or individually, what was the moon phase, barametric pressure and temperature, what time did you start and finish etc.


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## Specks (Dec 30, 2012)

Pilbra pythons
I could go into depth on here but I could not explain it well enough
A conversation over the phone would be much easier
When I return home from holidays tomorrow I would be more than happy to talk
Pm me if you want to
Cheers


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## mad_at_arms (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm sure there is people in the world that have risked more than $15K on worse odds of return.


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## thepythonguy (Jan 3, 2013)

What ever happened to the pair described in keeping and breeding australian pythons book it also pictures a captive one i think in a territory wildlife park?


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