# Pit Bull Viciously Attacks Baby



## da_donkey (Dec 27, 2007)

great vid


http://youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw&feature=related


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## slim6y (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't care what anyone says donk... but if the owners treat their dogs like crap then the dog will attack.

Though - as far as pitbulls go - media gave them a bad name from people who treated the dogs poorly, used them for fighting etc.

I do wished the law could change to allow us to put down the owners not the dogs!

Interesting vid - but it doesn't make me consider a pitbull anymore than another breed of dog


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## Herc (Dec 27, 2007)

i am amazed how many people are unaware that one of the most common reasons ANY dog attacks a child is due to aggression from the child. In animal behaviour, if you make eye to eye contact with a dog that hasn't be "broken" and by that I mean taught as a pup its place in the family pack, ie the bottom that eye contact is an imediate dominace challenge. unfortuantely kids are at eye level to most dogs and are not taught to avoid direct eye contact, therefore leading to the dog advancing on that challenge leading to a bite etc....
I have kept a pitbull and would trust him more than any other dog. But I never leave any animal and child alone with each other. EVER


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## Zdogs (Dec 27, 2007)

That's a great Vid, here Is one I did, BSL through my eyes

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj7DpaLyjoc

sad to see so many innocent dogs being killed purely on looks alone


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## Frozenmouse (Dec 27, 2007)

my pit bull is a sook with people but he does have a overwelming urge to kill anything mamalian weather it be a mouse - cow -whatever (reptiles and birds are safe for some reason). need less to say he has had a very restricted life the problems occur when people treat them like a normal dog.


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## kakariki (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a real problem with aggression.. be it from animals or their idiot owners. People breed dogs with aggressive natures with other dogs with the same temperment. You will not get a good pet doing that. I had an argument with a cattle judge once. He didnt like my bull down cos he wasnt "tough" enough! I had worked hard with my cattle so they werent aggressive. They were Jerseys and my argument was I was breeding for good temperment NOT aggression. Who wants to milk a cranky cow? Same with dogs IMO. If you breed for aggression and sell to idiots the breed gets a bad name. Other breeds have gone thru a similar thing. Shepherds, Rotties, Dobies etc .People are the real problem!


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## Helikaon (Dec 27, 2007)

kakariki said:


> I have a real problem with aggression.. be it from animals or their idiot owners. People breed dogs with aggressive natures with other dogs with the same temperment. You will not get a good pet doing that. I had an argument with a cattle judge once. He didnt like my bull down cos he wasnt "tough" enough! I had worked hard with my cattle so they werent aggressive. They were Jerseys and my argument was I was breeding for good temperment NOT aggression. Who wants to milk a cranky cow? Same with dogs IMO. If you breed for aggression and sell to idiots the breed gets a bad name. Other breeds have gone thru a similar thing. Shepherds, Rotties, Dobies etc .People are the real problem!


 

i aggree. artificial selection for certain traits is a very good way to retain traits expecially in behaviour. although there is also a large influence form external pressures as the animal grows. so yes i aggree fully expecially about people being idiots


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## herpie boy (Dec 27, 2007)

those vids are a bit of a tear jerker. 
i use to work for victorian animal aid and various boarding kennels and have had no real fear of pit bulls and have only had one small issue with 1 which had fear aggression,what upsets me is almost everytime somone came in to pick one up they were some dropkick dero who could barely string a sentence together.


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## Clairebear (Dec 27, 2007)

well said herpie boy!


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## Clairebear (Dec 27, 2007)

What does BSL stand for? You made my eyes well up...


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## Zdogs (Dec 27, 2007)

Breed Specific Legislation is a draconian law which restricts or prohibits ownership of certain dogs due solely to their breeding or the way the look,

In 1991, after lobbying for 4 years, the *RSPCA* and other smaller vocal lobbyists managed to have four breeds of dogs declared dangerous and banned from further importation: 

* Dogo Argentino
* Fila Brasiliero
* Japanese Tosa
* American Pit Bull Terrier or Pit Bull Terrier
* Presa Canario

The Presa was added In 2005



South Australia, New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria and Western Australia have already introduced some form of Breed Specific Legislation.


ETA: “Pit bull dogs are just dogs. Four legs, two eyes, and one heart.” 




 .​


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## Nbates (Dec 27, 2007)

I know i will probably hear a lot of whinging from all of you but personally I think that pitbulls are one breed of dog that should be completely exterminated, I know that its all a big "I own a pitbull" macho type thing for their owners but what you all fail to see is that pitbulls were bred for one reason and one reason only.......To fight.

What type of moron would let a baby/child of any age near any type of dog is beyond me, I find it funny how someone can piss about with a snake and be called an idiot but when somebody puts a baby near dogs which have had numerous human fatalities its all "goo and garrr".

Im not a dog hater by any means and I have owned German shepards and rottie x and even though they never showed signs of aggression I was NEVER allowed to go near them as a child.....oh btw when a pitbull tries to bite a child see what part of the body they bite


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## Zdogs (Dec 27, 2007)

> I think that pitbulls are one breed of dog that should be completely exterminated


I'm sorry you feel this way, But I will fight for their rights, just as thousands do each and every day,
Don't judge a breed soley on what you read about In the news, there Is more to It that that, :|
and I don't really want to start a debate on it here, I do that in other more suited places.
But that comment Is "offensive"


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## Midol (Dec 27, 2007)

What the hell.

That is such an ignorant comment Nbates. Do you realise Pitties aren't even the most common dog to bite?

It's always morons who don't understand dogs who spout this crap.

Rotties and GSDs are next, then any dog thats over 20cm.

This crap has to end, but with people spouting ignorant crap about dog behaviour it won't be stopped.

Geez, if you honestly believe that I hope you NEVER own a dog again.


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## kakariki (Dec 27, 2007)

Lots of breeds were bred to fight and they arent banned. To add more fuel to an already blazing fire, I have had more trouble with blue heelers than any other breed ! My son was attacked by a heeler when he was 15 mths old and I was standing right next to him. He did nothing to provoke the dog. The dog was owned by a "macho type" . The dog went for sons face and chest. 10 yrs later the scars have faded but are still visible. Ban heelers? No. Pity the macho idiots cant be banned! There should be a register with the names of people who have owned aggressive dogs. Anyone who repeatedly has dogs which bite should be banned from owning dogs much like the cruelty act does for cruelty. Can that be done ?:evil::x


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## Midol (Dec 27, 2007)

Then there is also the test used to check if a dog is an APBT.

[video=youtube;jaK2nbi-NTM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaK2nbi-NTM[/video]

It's a load of crap. Sorry, anyone who supports it IS an idiot. There is no justification for supporting BSL or the 22 point test. It is illogical.

The owners create the problems so an entire breed gets punished. The APBT is banned, have overall attacks and fatalities gone down? Hell no.


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## Nbates (Dec 27, 2007)

Midol said:


> What the hell.
> 
> Do you realise Pitties aren't even the most common dog to bite?
> 
> ...


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## sockbat (Dec 27, 2007)

I've had dogs most of my life and the worst one was a blue healer, It started getting snappy when i was first pregnant. So we had it put down. Didn't want to risk me or my kids or anyone eles for that matter getting attacked. It was one of the hardest things i've ever had to do.


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## kakariki (Dec 27, 2007)

Nbates, I agree with one thing you have said. "Some dogs are born aggressive." Responsible owners recognize that and have the dog put down. But it is not a breed thing, it is a people thing. The same "born aggressive dog " in the wrong hands would be bred from. THAT is wrong. People dont always own up to having a pittie. A friend had one and told everyone it was a staffy cross! I had the council here one day asking about my dog.:shock: He is a Dane X Bull Mastiff! Someone had told the council he was a pittie. Doesnt look anything like one IMO. [His pic is posted on tell us about your other pets for anyone interested.] I say again DO NOT BAN THE BREED! BAN THE "MACHO IDIOTS " THAT OWN THEM!!!!!!! :evil:


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## da_donkey (Dec 27, 2007)

Nbates said:


> Midol said:
> 
> 
> > I know that im not a tough guy cause I don't own a mighty pitty but I think I would rather go for a dog which won't decide to turn on me and try to rip my throat out.... The sooner they are banned the better, You can sit there and say what you will about the owners turning them into aggressive dogs but Im pretty sure like snakes that some are just born aggressive and will never change.
> ...


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## Peterwookie (Dec 27, 2007)

Any dog can be trained to fight be it a Pit Bull or a Fox Terrier the fact that human ignorance can justify singling out just a few breads of these beautiful dogs is insane as many of you have said it is the human owner and surroundings that make these animals the way they are it sickens me that these so called humans are the ones that get away with the cruel treatment and the animal has to pay the price


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## =bECS= (Dec 27, 2007)

Nbates said:


> Midol said:
> 
> 
> > What the hell.
> ...


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## Kali7 (Dec 27, 2007)

pity animals have to pay for their owners stupidity.


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## Hetty (Dec 27, 2007)

becswillbe said:


> For the record, pittys and staffys pass the companionship/temperament test with higher than average pass results than golden retrievers etc, and other more commonly kept dogs.



I'm not saying this isn't the case, but I'm very surprised by it. Have you got any articles or anything on this?

Golden Retrievers are generally really gentle dogs (not saying Pit Bulls aren't) and I can't picture most of them not passing a temperament test of any kind with flying colours.


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## =bECS= (Dec 27, 2007)

for those of you who dont know much about keeping the breed, have a look here, they are letters from owners opposing BSL and giving their experiences with the dogs:

http://pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21565


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## =bECS= (Dec 27, 2007)

> American Temperament Test Society results 2002
> 
> - Boarder Collie 78.8%
> - Cocker Spaniel 81.5%
> ...



http://ilovemypitt.150m.com/breed_specific_legislation%20in%20canada.htm

if you google it you will find alot more


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## Midol (Dec 27, 2007)

Keep in mind that temperament testing involves small animal tests and breeds with strong prey drives (hunting breeds) are far less likely to do well but as long as you are prepared for it you're fine.


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## Frozenmouse (Dec 27, 2007)

read a book called "The Truth about the APBT. it will enlighten most of the people about this breed .
APBT s have been selectivly bred for hundreds of years for their fighting ability . human agression has been bred out of them in a pit bull fight their is three people in the pit with the dogs any agression shown to any of these people by the dogs during the match was instant disqualification, which normaly led to the animal being destroyed.

Myth- pitbulls are a mixture of modern breeds,

Myth-good fighting dogs are agressive toward humans

Myth- you can train any dog to fight


Myth- you can tell a dog is a pitbull by its physical traits- pitbulls were bred on ability not to a 
standard some have the physique of a kelpie some more robust like the media representation.

I completely detest dog fighting ,pigging and any other dog activity that puts the animals at risk.


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## ihaveherps (Dec 27, 2007)

Its a waste of time trying to educate people whos opinion is soley driven by media hype. The same people who are against pit-bulls, will also praise breeds such as German shepherds, Rottweilers and Dobermans which were specifically bred as man-hunters. Why dont the fighting dog haters, ever have a swipe at the oldest breed of fighting dog, the Sharpei? Why do they just take aim at pittys, the only difference between a pitty and a staffy is a divergence in the line, or the Amstaff, which is only a seperate breed to to a registration problem, so the owner bred with enough conformation to establish his own breed... but I suppose, as the old saying goes, "ignorance is bliss!"


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## kakariki (Dec 27, 2007)

Shepherds, rotties and dobies were not bred as manhunters. They were bred to protect sheep and tradesmen. But back to the debate at hand....


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## kirstys (Dec 27, 2007)

any dog big or small will attack if not brough up correct i keep big dogs just logs one christmas eve rip abbi but we still have a malamute who is 55kgs and if he wanted to kill some one he could.
the number one keys is dogs should not be left with kids unsupervised 
treat the dog right no matter what breed and you wont have a problem
there is nothing wrong with pit bulls at all its the owners who neglect them


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## Bung-Eye (Dec 27, 2007)

i have a real soft spot for dogs, and I don't believe that any dog should ever be discriminated against (including the breed specific legislation). All dogs can and will be trained if they're given the chance to. They're like kids, you have the kids with disfunctional families, abuse occurs, little discipline etc and chances are they're going to turn out like an animal. 

It's the same for dogs, if given the opportunities in life that they're entitled to, you'll have a more loyal friend in them than you will in any human. No dog will ever turn its back on its master for its own gain.

That being said, the first video was great, but ruined by the absolutely crap soundtrack. U2 are selfish and it infuriates me that people think they're wonderful humanitarians.... whatever. It's all for show, if they really cared about humanitarian rights they wouldn't be flying the world in their private jets and bono wouldn't have over *a billion* dollars in the bank for his own personal use. gah.


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## jake61 (Dec 27, 2007)

did anyone here the one about the two poodles killing and eating a baby? i saw on 60 mins when i was a kid i think they were trying to ban the english bull terrier [i have one and she is the sweetest thing]. i get a littlle upset when people are terified of her then the next thing they say is "but shes a pitbull" proving they have no knowledge of either breed.
i work at a pet store and my bully comes to work everyday. i am happy to say most open minded individuals are won over by her sweet nature.
DONT BAN THE BREED. CHANGE THE NAME.
as long as dog breeds have the word BULL they will be a scape goat for societys losers.


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## ihaveherps (Dec 27, 2007)

kakariki said:


> Shepherds, rotties and dobies were not bred as manhunters. They were bred to protect sheep and tradesmen. But back to the debate at hand....



Ok, for the lenght of the post I did attempt to keep the point short, but I was trying to convey the message, that in the late 1900's Rottweillers were all but extinct, yes the breed was originally a livestock orientated breed, but the very existence of the breed today revolves around the effort the Germans put into the breed as a dog of war and security, and were without a doubt bred for their agression directed towards humans combined with their loyalty to thier owner. The German Shepherd has much the same history, although more profound in numbers pre-war, both of these dogs linage that is available today is derived from, and consistantly bred for these traits in the recent history of the breeds. The doberman, as a breed is very recent, and pretty much totally security oriented breed. Fair enough "man-hunters" may have been a bit over the top.


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## Nagraj (Dec 27, 2007)

About half way down this "special report" compiled by medical professionals you will find a couple of charts which clearly place "pit bull-type" dogs at the top of the fatal dog attack list.

Make of it what you will.

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/dogbreeds.pdf


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## foxysnake (Dec 27, 2007)

I have to say, that I've literally had a pitbull hang off my neck. However, I still don't condemn the breed. I know for a fact exactly how the particular dog that attacked me, was abused - like getting hit over the head by a shovel etc.
(and yes, I had reported the abuse, but nothing was able to be prooved)


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## foxysnake (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh, and Id just like to add, my dog is breed for pig-hunting - chasing whatever moves really. However, shes never hunted, (other than the odd wallaby), and I have 2 kids and have never had a problem. Her nature is unbelievable and in fact she has protected my kids on several occasions, and is a fantastic guard dog. But, than again, shes had a great upbringing and lotsa of training. Regardless of ppl think, I still firmly believe that it really is the way the dog is reared and not the 'breed' what so ever.


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## honga05 (Dec 27, 2007)

good vids, they killed mine as soon as the law came in.


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## snakes4me2 (Dec 27, 2007)

Kali7 said:


> pity animals have to pay for their owners stupidity.


 

very well said, we dont have have a dog and the main reason is because we have young children, youngest is 3 and i dont trust any kid around dogs by themselves. I could say that i wouldnt leave my kids around the dogs by themselves but all parents know that a kid can open a door and walk outside and it only takes that one tme you accidently dont lock the door and the kid will go out and COULD get bitten.


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## kakariki (Dec 27, 2007)

Excellent link Nagraj. That article clearly stated that banning a particular breed would be ineffective because people who want big aggressive dogs would just choose another breed! Exactly. It also states that with the wrong training any breed can be aggressive. It is common sense really. Had to chuckle at the thought a fatality was caused by a Yorkie!? :lol: How? The mind boggles!!!!!!!:shock::lol:


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2007)

*How many people on here own a Pitbull?*

I am looking for pitbull owners in NSW to start a lobby group. I am the owner of a Pitbull and am currently going through court. Anyone who owns one and would like to help please pm me. The breed needs all the help it can get.

They are not pure "fighting dogs". If anyone has done some research on Pitbull fighting they would know that the dog is bred for dog on dog aggression only. The owners of the dogs stand in the pit with their animals whilst they fight. Any instance of human aggression in a "fighting dog" and the dog is put down. In saying that in no way do i condone dog fighting. My dog has never even looked like biting. As already stated most dog bites on children are not the dogs fault. If a kid has their finger in a dogs eyes or mouth or even bum. The dog can't just say can you stop that. All the know is they don't like it and the only defence is to bite. Also the statistics on dog attacks hardly justify the bans. Considering Cattle, kelpie, border collie all come before pitbulls on the attack register and by a great margin at that.

PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED


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## snakes4me2 (Dec 27, 2007)

just to add to my last post........and actually stck up for dogs, hows the 2 stories the other day.
one dog grabbed a baby and threw it out of the way of a snake and took the bite itself, now that dog was only picked up from the dogs home about a week before that (soi heard), then i heard on the news that a dog dragged a kid out of the water and saved its life.


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## da_donkey (Dec 27, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I am looking for pitbull owners in NSW to start a lobby group. I am the owner of a Pitbull and am currently going through court. Anyone who owns one and would like to help please pm me. The breed needs all the help it can get.
> 
> They are not pure "fighting dogs". If anyone has done some research on Pitbull fighting they would know that the dog is bred for dog on dog aggression only. The owners of the dogs stand in the pit with their animals whilst they fight. Any instance of human aggression in a "fighting dog" and the dog is put down. In saying that in no way do i condone dog fighting. My dog has never even looked like biting. As already stated most dog bites on children are not the dogs fault. If a kid has their finger in a dogs eyes or mouth or even bum. The dog can't just say can you stop that. All the know is they don't like it and the only defence is to bite. Also the statistics on dog attacks hardly justify the bans. Considering Cattle, kelpie, border collie all come before pitbulls on the attack register and by a great margin at that.
> 
> PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED


 
I used to be a member of the Pit bull association of NSW, i heard that they are no longer going. heaps of great people were in it supporting the breed.

Ive been out of those circles for a long time now, allthough i could probbaly dig up some ph numbers for you, if you wanted.

donks


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2007)

For anyone interested this is enclosure requirements for owning a Pitbull. Do you think they are fair? Before you answer think of it this way. You own a property and your tenant comes to you and asks if they can build this. What would you say. I think i know what most landlords would say.
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/DLG/DLGHo...cted_and_Dangerous_Dogs_in_NSW_-_Brochure.pdf


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2007)

*This is a proposal to a change of Restricted Breed Laws.*

If you are the owner of a restricted breed, at your cost your dog is assessed by an animal behaviouralist to find its aggression level. This test is carried out every year or sooner if the is any issues. If your dog is found to be of a non-aggressive nature the control requirements stated in my previous post could be relaxed. The enclosure would not have to be built, desexing not done. Over 18 should still apply and muzzling if need be. If at any time your dog is found to have been aggressive then enforce all the requirements.
I have written this letter and just need to start getting signatures. I will have something sorted out in the next couple of days. If you would be willing to sign keep an eye out for it. The State Government is having a review on the laws in about 9mths. Hopefully something can be done to stop these draconion laws.
Cheers Ragin


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## bump73 (Dec 27, 2007)

There's nothing better than taking your dog to a park and letting it socialise with other dogs, it's good for there health and they love it.....

That's the main reason i would never own a pit bull or a lot of other breeds such as a blue heeler for that matter. I just don't think they can be trusted with other animals, let's face it pit bulls AREN'T bred to hunt humans but they WERE bred, over many generations so the charecteristics are strong, to attack other dogs....

Why you would want to own one is beyond me, but then again i probably would never own a venomous snake for the same reason, it's just not safe IMO..

Would the owners trust there animals to be off leash in a dog park with other dogs???


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## Midol (Dec 27, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I am looking for pitbull owners in NSW to start a lobby group. I am the owner of a Pitbull and am currently going through court. Anyone who owns one and would like to help please pm me. The breed needs all the help it can get.
> 
> They are not pure "fighting dogs". If anyone has done some research on Pitbull fighting they would know that the dog is bred for dog on dog aggression only. The owners of the dogs stand in the pit with their animals whilst they fight. Any instance of human aggression in a "fighting dog" and the dog is put down. In saying that in no way do i condone dog fighting. My dog has never even looked like biting. As already stated most dog bites on children are not the dogs fault. If a kid has their finger in a dogs eyes or mouth or even bum. The dog can't just say can you stop that. All the know is they don't like it and the only defence is to bite. Also the statistics on dog attacks hardly justify the bans. Considering Cattle, kelpie, border collie all come before pitbulls on the attack register and by a great margin at that.
> 
> PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED



Contact the EBDA and join dogzonline and they have a BSL section.



bump73 said:


> There's nothing better than taking your dog to a park and letting it socialise with other dogs, it's good for there health and they love it.....
> 
> That's the main reason i would never own a pit bull or a lot of other breeds such as a blue heeler for that matter. I just don't think they can be trusted with other animals, let's face it pit bulls AREN'T bred to hunt humans but they WERE bred, over many generations so the charecteristics are strong, to attack other dogs....
> 
> ...



Actually off leash dog parks are one of the worst places you can take your dog to. Most cases of dog aggression are caused from off leash parks.

I know a number of people who have well adjusted dogs but are now dog aggressive because small dogs kept biting their faces and such.


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## Tsubakai (Dec 28, 2007)

I don't take my dogs to off leash areas because of other people's dogs. They are my and my wife's companions and protectors, socialising with other dogs is not relevant as far as I'm concerned. 

Breed specific legislation is a load of rubbish. I'm just thankful that the American Bulldog has not made the list. 



bump73 said:


> There's nothing better than taking your dog to a park and letting it socialise with other dogs, it's good for there health and they love it.....
> 
> That's the main reason i would never own a pit bull or a lot of other breeds such as a blue heeler for that matter. I just don't think they can be trusted with other animals, let's face it pit bulls AREN'T bred to hunt humans but they WERE bred, over many generations so the charecteristics are strong, to attack other dogs....
> 
> ...



No one comes into my yard or house uninvited. Which is safer for me or my wife when I'm not home?


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## Midol (Dec 28, 2007)

Socialisation is incredibly important.

If you walk past another dog what does your dog do?
How will you ever attend obedience classes?
How will you ever place your dog into a kennel?
What do you do at the vets?
What happens if your dog escapes one day and gets into a fight?

We all like to claim our dogs would never fight another dog but given that many dogs these days don't know how to read body language it is very easy to occur.

----------------

Ohhh, and 99.9% of offlead dogs in parks shouldn't be offlead. It is a condition of using an offlead park that you maintain effective control which requires a 100% recall, if your dog runs up to another dog in a dog park and you didn't call it back or ask its owner if it was alright and they get into a fight you are liable as your dog was not under your control.


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## Tsubakai (Dec 28, 2007)

I meant socialising in the context of off-lead parks.


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## [email protected] (Dec 28, 2007)

My Pitbull lives with a cattle cross both males both not de-sexed. Yes they have they occansional scuffel but there has never been any injuries. As for the fact they cannot be trusted with other animals, the last house I lived in i went to the backyard to find my Pitbull and Cattle x playing with two beagels they had never seen before. These two beagels had snuck under a small gap in the fence. Before anyone has a go at me for the gap in the fence, my dog was three years old then and had never tried to escape. Even with a one metre fence. As for the charecteristics being so strong. That does depend entirely on the dog in question. When fighting dogs are assessed by their owners for fighting there is a thing called game. Game means that a dog wants to fight. Not all Pitbulls or any fighting dog for that matter has game. Some have it some don't. Same in humans. Some people are dominant some are submissive. I know i keep referring to dog fighting. I don't like having to it is just that there is not much other information on their temperment. Saying you would never own a pitbull is ridiculous. I have two questions to all that have posted negative things about Pitbulls. 1. Have you ever seen a Pitbull in the flesh? 2. Have you ever spent some quality time with a Pitbull?


bump73 said:


> There's nothing better than taking your dog to a park and letting it socialise with other dogs, it's good for there health and they love it.....
> 
> That's the main reason i would never own a pit bull or a lot of other breeds such as a blue heeler for that matter. I just don't think they can be trusted with other animals, let's face it pit bulls AREN'T bred to hunt humans but they WERE bred, over many generations so the charecteristics are strong, to attack other dogs....
> 
> ...


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## Midol (Dec 28, 2007)

Tsubaki, Yeah, I thought that's what you meant but thought I'd clear it up incase someone came along and thought that it was alright not to do any socialisation.

I actually consider it responsible dog ownership if you stay out of off leash parks. I'd never let me dog enter an off leash park with unknown dogs. All it takes is one dog to go yours and your dog is going to have issues 

I actually consider it important to keep dogs strong, sure, remove their desire to fight BUT everything else should remain identical. IF we remove all the physical attributes that make a pitbull a pitbull do we really have a pitbull? Pitties were never bred to be aggressive, I oppose dog fighting but the decent dog fighters were skilled and their dogs did not attack random dogs.

It is the same as a security dog. I'd rather have a police trained K9 with my kids than a family pet, the trained dog has been taught it can ONLY bite when the master gives the command. The family pet hasn't.


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## kakariki (Dec 28, 2007)

The bull terrier went thru a similsr thing 2o years ago. My partner was saying that bullies got a reputation [unfairly in his opinion ] for attacking other dogs on sight. He said that while he never had any start a fight, [he used to breed them] a bully would certainly step up and finish it! He is not a fan of pitbulls but he agrees that a dog is only as good as the training it receives. Big dogs scare people, bottom line. And there are some people who take advantage of that! Most of the big, solid breeds have had trouble at one time or another. It is the pitties turn. Although I have no interest in owning a pitbull, I would sign against banning them.


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## tfor2 (Dec 28, 2007)

I just cant believe we are fighting over dogs on a Reptile forum.
Before you know it we will have all the anti bsl people on here from the dog forums and then we will see the riots begin...
But i guess nothing surprises me now.


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## slip_phreak (Dec 28, 2007)

Please, I own a Staffy and she is by far the friendliest dog on the face of the planet. She doesnt bark at anything except bugs on the carport floor or vapour trails left by passing jets/ sky writers lol. I wouldnt trust her with small children on her own (you'd be silly to with any breed of dog) because she jumps but i take her up to my godfathers place up the road and she plays with his jack russel unattended with no worries.
Whereas my old cattledog was extremely aggresive to anyone outside of my direct family, people walking past the back gate would be enough to set him off and he recieved no "attack" style training from anyone he was just that way.


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## Midol (Dec 28, 2007)

tfor2, we're on off topic. I am presuming you can read since you are on an online forum and usually writing comes after reading but perhaps you don't understand the concept of off topic?

Off topic is where discussions not related to the forums subject are discussed. Dogs are considered off topic, go and whinge to someone else.

BTW, I am an anti-bsl person from a dog forum who just happens to enjoy keeping reptiles as well.


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## Nagraj (Dec 28, 2007)

kakariki said:


> That article clearly stated that banning a particular breed would be ineffective because people who want big aggressive dogs would just choose another breed!



That's not quite the conclusion I would draw from the paper .... but, whatever.


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## coskun89 (Dec 28, 2007)

They are the most amazing dogs... so loyal and protective of there owners.. i have a 1 year old blonde and his dad is a the biggest softy... just need to watch out for 2 boyz together that is all...other wise from that as long as you show who is the boss.. they wont dare not listen to you.. pitbulls are also much more tougher then the average dog... a scream just isnt enough for them.. a real nice hard slap on the backside is the way to go, i know this because my cousin has bred pitbull terriers and i have there pick of the litter..she has selectively picked the people she sold them to, only the best owners..she gave me the pick of the litter, the only blonde boy. My dogs father was trained this way and is very loyal and obeys every command.. somtimes you need to be tough on them and also show them affection. Turn around when they dont listen to you, then they will try get you attention, they still act like pups when there older haha ;D


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## tfor2 (Dec 28, 2007)

> BTW, I am an anti-bsl person from a dog forum who just happens to enjoy keeping reptiles as well.


[/QUOTE]

Well that explains your attitude then....

I was simply joking about arguing about jokes on a reptile forum... But peoples sense of humour just isnt what it used to be....lmao....lmao and again...


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