# New Ackie & monitor UVB question



## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Hi,

The other day I got my first monitor, an ackies! I've wanted a monitor for SO long, and I'm super excited to finally have one. Its about 3 weeks old and unsexed.
Enclosure:









Also, if anyone can tell me about UVB for monitors? @Smittiferous @Stompsy

Thanks,
[doublepost=1517794899,1517787821][/doublepost]Btw - is the enclosure alright? The UV is now in a different spot and can't be touched by the monitor.


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## pinefamily (Feb 5, 2018)

UV is not absolutely necessary for monitors. It won't hurt them, but with the correct diet, not needed.
Maybe it's the photos, but it looks older than 3 weeks.


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

pinefamily said:


> UV is not absolutely necessary for monitors. It won't hurt them, but with the correct diet, not needed.
> Maybe it's the photos, but it looks older than 3 weeks.


Thank you. The breeder has been loading it with woodies so he looks a bit bigger than your average 3 week old haha.


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## pinefamily (Feb 5, 2018)

Woodies and crickets make up the perfect diet at that age, dusted with multi-cal or something similar every two to three days. Chicken mince for pets can be introduced slowly; this has the bones minced in with the meat, unlike turkey mince. When it gets older, chopped chicken necks go down well too, as do pinkies.


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Ok cool @pinefamily. So maybe if I give it some chicken mince once a week at its current age?


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## Stompsy (Feb 5, 2018)

I’ve not kept Ackies before so I’m not sure on the specifics for them but uvb is a must for all monitors. 

What temp is the basking spot?

And I agree with pinefamily in that a varied diet is best, crickets and woodies are great, but also whole foods like pinkies will benefit them. Smittiferous might be able to help more as he has kept an ackie before. 

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> I’ve not kept Ackies before so I’m not sure on the specifics for them but uvb is a must for all monitors.
> 
> What temp is the basking spot?
> 
> ...


No worries and thanks. The basking spot gets to around 50 - 60˚c, but I'm not sure how accurate my temp gun is.


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## Stompsy (Feb 5, 2018)

I’d also suggest dusting the crickets and woodies every second feed, just to ensure he’s getting everything he needs.

He’s very cute. How does he handle?


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks @Stompsy. I am dusting them every second feed as you said. He's not a biter thankfully, hes just not too confident with me yet, so a bit squirmy. I'm tong feeding him to hopefully build up his trust.
[doublepost=1517807915,1517807588][/doublepost]And at what length would/could pinkies be ok for him to eat?


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## Stompsy (Feb 5, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Thanks @Stompsy. I am dusting them every second feed as you said. He's not a biter thankfully, hes just not too confident with me yet, so a bit squirmy. I'm tong feeding him to hopefully build up his trust.
> [doublepost=1517807915,1517807588][/doublepost]And at what length would/could pinkies be ok for him to eat?


Well keep us posted on his progress. And I hope you get some more specific info!

Re pinkies: I guess that depends how big he is as it’s very hard to gauge from photos! But maybe buy some pinky mice and see how he handles them.


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> Well keep us posted on his progress. And I hope you get some more specific info!


Will do, thanks again!
[doublepost=1517808181,1517808032][/doublepost]And sorry about the bad photos lol. I have some pinkies in the freezer from when my diamond python was smaller. If they're too big could I just cut them up? If not i'll just do the chicken mince.


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## Stompsy (Feb 5, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Will do, thanks again!
> [doublepost=1517808181,1517808032][/doublepost]And sorry about the bad photos lol. I have some pinkies in the freezer from when my diamond python was smaller. If they're too big could I just cut them up? If not i'll just do the chicken mince.


Cutting them frozen is easier and then just let them defrost in the bowl. If you try cutting them thawed, you may throw up. It’s pretty disgusting. But yes, that will work.


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## Foozil (Feb 5, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> Cutting them frozen is easier and then just let them defrost in the bowl. If you try cutting them thawed, you may throw up. It’s pretty disgusting. But yes, that will work.


Ok thanks for the advice, I can see that making a mess haha. They are certainly too big on their own so I'll try cutting them up in the morning, he's already had a pretty big feed today!


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## Neil j (Feb 5, 2018)

I waiting on a mercury vapour bulb for my spencer to knock over uv and heating in one. Not sure if it’s going to work on a dimming thermostat though.


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## Richard Biffin (Feb 5, 2018)

Once any monitor get familiar with you, just take them outside into a secure area for a few hours of natural sunlight; certainly saves on UV bulbs.


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## Foozil (Feb 6, 2018)

Richard Biffin said:


> Once any monitor get familiar with you, just take them outside into a secure area for a few hours of natural sunlight; certainly saves on UV bulbs.


Sounds good. At the moment there's no way he's going outside 
[doublepost=1517862446,1517819864][/doublepost]Update: He LOVES chicken mince, although he gets it all over his chops and I have to clean it off haha


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## Smittiferous (Feb 7, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Sounds good. At the moment there's no way he's going outside
> [doublepost=1517862446,1517819864][/doublepost]Update: He LOVES chicken mince, although he gets it all over his chops and I have to clean it off haha


I recommend using pet mince (the kind you get from the supermarket in those 5-sachet packs, advertised for cats) as it has calcium added to it. Mince intended for human consumption does not.

Lenard’s also sell ground chicken carcass as pet mince, dirt cheap per kilo, good source of calcium as well. Only shortfall is it’s very pasty.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Smittiferous said:


> I recommend using pet mince (the kind you get from the supermarket in those 5-sachet packs, advertised for cats) as it has calcium added to it. Mince intended for human consumption does not.
> 
> Lenard’s also sell ground chicken carcass as pet mince, dirt cheap per kilo, good source of calcium as well. Only shortfall is it’s very pasty.


Thanks for the info! I'll get some of that too.


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## saximus (Feb 7, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> I’ve not kept Ackies before so I’m not sure on the specifics for them but uvb is a must for all monitors.


I'd have to disagree with this statement. A diet of whole animals negates the need for the UV.

I don't like the idea of mince. If you can stomach it, chopped up adult mice are the go. That way they get the fur, bones and organs - specifically the liver where they get all the Vitamin D they need without the requirement for UV. If you do it with a sharp knife while they're still frozen, it's not too difficult or gross. Once he/she is a bit bigger you don't need to chop them up any more.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

saximus said:


> I'd have to disagree with this statement. A diet of whole animals negates the need for the UV.
> 
> I don't like the idea of mince. If you can stomach it, chopped up adult mice are the go. That way they get the fur, bones and organs - specifically the liver where they get all the Vitamin D they need without the requirement for UV. If you do it with a sharp knife while they're still frozen, it's not too difficult or gross. Once he/she is a bit bigger you don't need to chop them up any more.


Thanks for the info. I'm not too squeemish so I'll try this too. 
I don't know whether to do mince or mice now haha


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## Smittiferous (Feb 7, 2018)

Foozil said:


> I don't know whether to do mince or mice now haha


Do both. Mix and match. Alternate. Nothing wrong with varying the diet as long as it’s healthy. I do with all mine, they get fed all sorts of things. Works out cheaper too, bulk rodents can cost a lot.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Smittiferous said:


> Do both. Mix and match. Alternate. Nothing wrong with varying the diet as long as it’s healthy. I do with all mine, they get fed all sorts of things. Works out cheaper too, bulk rodents can cost a lot.


Will do.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 7, 2018)

I (personally) wouild definitely provide UVB lighting for any diurnal basking reptile. Sure, yes, some D3 is acquired through the diet but there's no supplement for the sun... natural sunlight a few times/week is best but if it's not going outside regularly, the artificial UVB lighting would be good, I use Mercury vapour basking lamps. Diurnal Basking reptiles like lizards and turtles take the bulk of their vitamin D needs from the sun. Supplementing through diet may be simpler for us but why deny a creature that's evolved to soak up the rays that privilege? 

Keep the UVB I say. It's certainly not going to hurt.


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## pinefamily (Feb 7, 2018)

No it's not going to hurt, but monitors are one type of reptiles that can live without UV provided. As long as the diet is correct.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 7, 2018)

Because they can probably doesn't mean they should though right... ? It seems, to me, a lot simpler and less hassle to slap a decent UVB light in an enclosure than it does to frick about with supplements in every second feed and risk adverse health problems. You wouldn't even save any $$$ doing it that way either... 

Providing a natural varied diet and UVB without supplementations will always be better for the reptile rather than no UVB lighting and instead, cramming them full of supplementations at every second or third feed. The problem with multi vitamin and calcium powders, sachets etc is they cause a drastic and extremely rapid rise in the blood levels of whatever is being supplemented and that isn't natural or normal and has been directly linked to gout in reptiles, hypervitaminosis A, D etc and hypecalcemia. I don't dare use any dietary supplements for my frogs and turtles, have never dusted an insect. Just provide a normal natural variation in their diet, UVB lighting and some time in the sun a few times each week and let nature do what it does best.
[doublepost=1517978465,1517978228][/doublepost]Just like we can't supplement a good breakfast with 3 cans of redbull.


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## saximus (Feb 7, 2018)

Perhaps dietary supplementation should be placed in the same category as sunlight supplementation (aka UV bulbs) then 
I've never provided UV or dietary supplementation and raised plenty of healthy monitors indoors.

It's fine if OP wants to do it (these globes certainly provide a nice hue for display purposes) so long as he understands that it's about as "necessary" as providing UV for a python. I just hate seeing people hoodwinked by uneducated/dodgy salespeople with respect to these things and thinking they HAVE to do it.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Thanks for the help everyone. At this point I'm on the side of not_ needing _UVB so I understand how necessary it is, and as I said in the first place, it was put in there just to make the enclosure look nicer.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 7, 2018)

saximus said:


> Perhaps dietary supplementation should be placed in the same category as sunlight supplementation (aka UV bulbs) then
> I've never provided UV or dietary supplementation and raised plenty of healthy monitors indoors.


You could definitely do that if they get regular outdoor time in the sun.


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## Tobe404 (Feb 7, 2018)

Smittiferous said:


> Do both. Mix and match. Alternate. Nothing wrong with varying the diet as long as it’s healthy. I do with all mine, they get fed all sorts of things. Works out cheaper too, bulk rodents can cost a lot.



I'll second this. A varied diet is always good. Although mine mainly gets chopped Chicken Necks/Dusted Woodies/Whole Mice. I've also given him Huntsman, Centipedes, Some giant Cricket like creature. Never refuses anything. I'm even half tempted to cut up some Prawns we have and see what he thinks of them.


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## Smittiferous (Feb 7, 2018)

Tobe404 said:


> I'll second this. A varied diet is always good. Although mine mainly gets chopped Chicken Necks/Dusted Woodies/Whole Mice. I've also given him Huntsman, Centipedes, Some giant Cricket like creature. Never refuses anything. I'm even half tempted to cut up some Prawns we have and see what he thinks of them.



I'll often divvy up leftover bait (prawns from the deli) amongst my monitors rather than let them go to waste. They destroy them. Literally. Guts everywhere from thrashing (unshelled) or they just disappear in a flash (shelled). My mertens has a soft spot for them. Sometimes the enclosures smell a tad fishy afterwards though


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 7, 2018)

I go through about $30 worth of prawns a week thanks to the turtles. Lol


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## Murph_BTK (Feb 7, 2018)

pinefamily said:


> No it's not going to hurt, but monitors are one type of reptiles that can live without UV provided. As long as the diet is correct.





Smittiferous said:


> Do both. Mix and match. Alternate. Nothing wrong with varying the diet as long as it’s healthy. I do with all mine, they get fed all sorts of things. Works out cheaper too, bulk rodents can cost a lot.


Bang on with these quotes I was going to write this word for word. I guess they can have their time in the lime light [emoji4].. 
Mix the foods .. I treat them like my own family no one likes eating the same food day in day out.. you could also think about a small outdoor enclosure that you could place the ridgy in and that way the sun could be soaked up by him/her and also it's a stimulant for the animal.. New smells and exploration etc.. *please note once it's bigger and settled in.. I do this with my snakes and ackies and touch wood have had no issues [emoji16].. 

PS more pics also 

Instagram: murph_BTK


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Murph_BTK said:


> Bang on with these quotes I was going to write this word for word. I guess they can have their time in the lime light [emoji4]..
> Mix the foods .. I treat them like my own family no one likes eating the same food day in day out.. you could also think about a small outdoor enclosure that you could place the ridgy in and that way the sun could be soaked up by him/her and also it's a stimulant for the animal.. New smells and exploration etc.. *please note once it's bigger and settled in.. I do this with my snakes and ackies and touch wood have had no issues [emoji16]..
> 
> PS more pics also
> ...


Thanks Murph! I'll get some more pics now


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 7, 2018)

Murph_BTK said:


> you could also think about a small outdoor enclosure that you could place the ridgy in and that way the sun could be soaked up by him/her and also it's a stimulant for the animal.


Perfect.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Here you go, @Murph_BTK:


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## Murph_BTK (Feb 7, 2018)

Good stuff matey .. I love my guys they are so stupid and yet smart [emoji849]









Instagram: murph_BTK


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Cute!! Are they sexed or too young?


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## Murph_BTK (Feb 7, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Cute!! Are they sexed or too young?


Too young from my understanding.. I will have them outsife this weekend as it's to be 35+ so I will add some more pics and show off the new outdoor enclosure they can run around in.. 


Instagram: murph_BTK


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Murph_BTK said:


> Too young from my understanding.. I will have them outsife this weekend as it's to be 35+ so I will add some more pics and show off the new outdoor enclosure they can run around in..
> 
> 
> Instagram: murph_BTK


Sounds good! I'd love to make something like that for him but he'll probably escape


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## Stompsy (Feb 7, 2018)

saximus said:


> I'd have to disagree with this statement. A diet of whole animals negates the need for the UV.
> 
> I don't like the idea of mince. If you can stomach it, chopped up adult mice are the go. That way they get the fur, bones and organs - specifically the liver where they get all the Vitamin D they need without the requirement for UV. If you do it with a sharp knife while they're still frozen, it's not too difficult or gross. Once he/she is a bit bigger you don't need to chop them up any more.


Oops!

I have everyone under uv as most places say it’s beneficial! Soooo much conflicting information!

Regardless, I guess it can’t hurt, so they’ll stay under it... but it’s food for thought when the bulbs age..


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Stompsy said:


> Oops!
> 
> I have everyone under uv as most places say it’s beneficial! Soooo much conflicting information!
> 
> Regardless, I guess it can’t hurt, so they’ll stay under it but it’s food for thought when the bulbs age..


Yup I don't know who to believe haha


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## Murph_BTK (Feb 7, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Sounds good! I'd love to make something like that for him but he'll probably escape


My advice is if you think it may escape.. I am lucky I work with steel and can tinker with designs I do get nervous when the go into new cages etc.. 

Instagram: murph_BTK


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## Bushfire (Feb 7, 2018)

To be honest, you will have people arguing over uv or not long after we have all moved on. You will find people keeping monitors in both camps. I personally sit in the uv camp but understand why some dont. If you can provide natural sunlight do it, its really best.
Ive found most people don't really have a good understanding of UV requirements or supplementation so just do one or both blindly, which can end badly either way.


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Bushfire said:


> To be honest, you will have people arguing over uv or not long after we have all moved on. You will find people keeping monitors in both camps. I personally sit in the uv camp but understand why some dont. If you can provide natural sunlight do it, its really best.
> Ive found most people don't really have a good understanding of UV requirements or supplementation so just do one or both blindly, which can end badly either way.


Thanks Bushfire. Just to be safe i'll definitely get a stronger UV light.


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## Bushfire (Feb 7, 2018)

Have a read of this and then ask away.

http://www.jzar.org/jzar/article/view/150


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## Foozil (Feb 7, 2018)

Bushfire said:


> Have a read of this and then ask away.
> 
> http://www.jzar.org/jzar/article/view/150


Thanks for that! What really is there to ask?


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## Bushfire (Feb 7, 2018)

Ackies would sit in the 3 - 4 ferg. zone so I wouldnt provide over 7 on the UV Index scale at the basking site. Some UV bulbs at recommend distances can punch over 20 and yes the UV Index is the same index used to tell people the days uv rating.


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## Sheldoncooper (Feb 7, 2018)

I've provided ackies with and without uv and seen no noticeable difference. I do use uv on them now but only turn that light on over the warmer mths. Food whise. Woodies / weaner mice and a bit of roo mince. I think alot of people keep them too cold I've seen alot of fat ackies, my ambient temps are 35 to 40 + degrees and i make sure i have a 70 + basking spot and food everywhere when there in season. If there temps are right they will do well in my experience anyway.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Richard Biffin (Feb 8, 2018)

Those long termers probably recall this poor guy. The result of an all meat diet and no access to a UV source, the Sun or otherwise.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 9, 2018)

Richard Biffin said:


> Those long termers probably recall this poor guy. The result of an all meat diet and no access to a UV source, the Sun or otherwise.
> 
> View attachment 323190


Def gotta have UVB for all diurnal baskiing reptiles.


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## Foozil (Feb 9, 2018)

Richard Biffin said:


> Those long termers probably recall this poor guy. The result of an all meat diet and no access to a UV source, the Sun or otherwise.
> 
> View attachment 323190


Thats horrible


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## Stompsy (Feb 9, 2018)

Richard Biffin said:


> Those long termers probably recall this poor guy. The result of an all meat diet and no access to a UV source, the Sun or otherwise.
> 
> View attachment 323190


I almost cry every time I see this... poor little guy.


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## Smittiferous (Feb 9, 2018)

Aussiepride83 said:


> Def gotta have UVB for all diurnal baskiing reptiles.


There was a little more to that story than just a lack of a UVB source. 

I don’t use UVB on my monitors these days, just a proper diet. No adverse effects, and all growing well/healthy/normal.


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## Foozil (Feb 9, 2018)

Smittiferous said:


> There was a little more to that story than just a lack of a UVB source.


Was there a thread about it?


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## Smittiferous (Feb 9, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Was there a thread about it?


I don’t think it was on APS but there is a thread, google image search for lace monitor and you’ll find the pic above and corresponding thread.


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## Foozil (Feb 9, 2018)

Smittiferous said:


> I don’t think it was on APS but there is a thread, google image search for lace monitor and you’ll find the pic above and corresponding thread.


Found it. Thats terrible.


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## Smittiferous (Feb 9, 2018)

In fact, here is the blog by the owner of the lace in question. All answers are within.


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## saximus (Feb 9, 2018)

Foozil said:


> Was there a thread about it?


https://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/threads/lace-monitor-with-mbd-graphic.169275/


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## jasonicBlast (May 29, 2018)

Wanted to chime in real quick...

UV is as we all know a hotly contested subject, cant say for sure, but I've seen some evidence of it's benefits in coloration with other species. I bought a 40 dollar Jeweled Lacerta hatchling with very avg looking parents a while back, and over the course of two years under a mercury vapor bulb with a varied diet, it grew into arguably one of the most stunning high blue green adults I've ever seen. Following suit with my new juvenile Ackie so I guess we'll see!

Jeweled Lacerta pics..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Luym5eq6135tr3hH2


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