# Airflow problems with new enclosure



## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey guys just wanting some opinions on ventilation in this tank it has one vent in the middle of the back wall that is 15cm X 20cm. Im thinking that this is not enough as when i turn the lamp off at night it takes ages for the temp to drop. Im thinking this could be a nightmare on really hot days like today. In my exoterra tank it had the whole top, and just under the front doors there was a vent for air flow. i know i wouldn't be able to do this in the new tank as it has a heat lamp and that would waste a lot of electricity, but i was thinking on putting a rectangle vent 3-5cm under the glass doors to maintain structural integrity with 15-20cm clearance either side maybe a little more clearance on the hot side to maintain ambient temp. And another on the cold side or the lid of the cold side. And is there anyway to securely hide the old vent. I'm thinking a fake rock wall. Anyway enough questions for now lol here are the photos.

One million thank yous

Blake.


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## Gonemad (Dec 18, 2012)

It doesn't look like there is any airflo vents in your new enclosure which is your problem IMO! Air gets hot with no air flo will only increase in temp.


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## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

Yea there is one if you look for my reflection in the glass where my head is there is a vent there.


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## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

Just looking for some opinions i know this vent that was installed by the maker is useless lol. what do you think of my idea on where i would place them, and if you don't like my ideas where would you place them and how big. For optimum ventilation, don't worry i love constructive criticism.


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## Cypher69 (Dec 18, 2012)

I agree the back vent does not really create an airflow.

I suggest maybe just drilling some holes on the bottom left side of the enclosure & then a couple on the top right side of the enclosure.

This, in theory, would make air flow in from the left, rise up as hot air due to your heat light & then flow out of the right side instead of just building up trapped inside.

Keep the back vent too, instead of trying to cover it up.


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## RedFox (Dec 18, 2012)

One air vent isn't going to create airflow. When I built mine I put air vents on either side to promote air flow. What I would probably do is pick up the little round vents from bunnings and put a couple of those along the bottom under the glass. Or using the same little round vents do something like in this thread.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/diy-zone-5392/building-enclosure-194895/

They cost about $3 I think for a pack of two in Bunnings.


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## Snowman (Dec 18, 2012)

It will create air flow if you have one high and one low. The hot air rising will escape out of the top vent while sucking in fresh air in the low vent.


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

Cypher and snowman have it. Drill some holes on the front, top and bottom diagonally opposite each other. 
Depending on what you are putting in there, size the holes accordingly. 
If your putting a hatchie in there just drill a few 3mm holes in a group. I've just drilled mine, it's housing adult Darwin's so mine are 10mm each. A small group of holes won't affect the structural integrity as much as one large hole you have to plug with a vent. When you've drill make sure you totally seal the raw timber. The slightest bit of moisture will make it swell. 
And I wouldn't cover the back one, a bit of cross ventilation is a good thing


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## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> Cypher and snowman have it. Drill some holes on the front, top and bottom diagonally opposite each other.
> Depending on what you are putting in there, size the holes accordingly.
> If your putting a hatchie in there just drill a few 3mm holes in a group. I've just drilled mine, it's housing adult Darwin's so mine are 10mm each. A small group of holes won't affect the structural integrity as much as one large hole you have to plug with a vent. When you've drill make sure you totally seal the raw timber. The slightest bit of moisture will make it swell.
> And I wouldn't cover the back one, a bit of cross ventilation is a good thing



Thanks for the response on the other topic  

I organised to borrow my dads cordless drill tomorrow. and was thinking on going with the 1" grommet style vents, and using 2 on the bottom of the hot side and 2 on the top of the cold side what do you think of that?


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## Serpent_Gazeux (Dec 18, 2012)

From my understanding one option I have been told is low at the cold end and top at the hot end.


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

The positioning is right, I'd suggest some small screws to hold the vents in. Don't rely just on glue, it weakens over time. And snakes have a habit up push on anything that flexes when they push on it. And don't forget to seal the hole edge


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

Serpent_Gazeux said:


> From my understanding it should be low at the cold end and top at the hot end.



Ah the great debate  it's all personal choice, I prefer low at heated end high at the cold then the occupant should always have a warm corner. In the end it's what ever works for your occupant


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## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

Whats the best sealer? and how long should i let the enclosure sit for until i get my snake in there?


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

Use whatever you have handy, a smear of silicon, varnish , several coats of paint at a push


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## blakewilson (Dec 18, 2012)

JaxRtfm said:


> Ah the great debate  it's all personal choice, I prefer low at heated end high at the cold then the occupant should always have a warm corner. In the end it's what ever works for your occupant



I might try both  ill just get some blank grommet screws and use the little plastic plugs to screw into so ill never have to worry about stripping the wood out. Then i have all the available options and never have to be annoyed because my tank cant face a certain way. Kills two birds with one stone XD


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## J-A-X (Dec 18, 2012)

See - problem solved


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## blakewilson (Dec 19, 2012)

Ok put the vents in today it looks real nice, put three down the bottom of the hot side. And three on the top of the cold side. Really happy with the temp readings I've collected today  it only varies by .3*c 'sorry there was no degrees button on my iPhone' XD

31.1 starts heating
31.4 dims and cycles down


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## J-A-X (Dec 19, 2012)

did you remember to seal inside the holes ? dont think for a minute that there wont be fluid getting though those small holes LOL. 
It looks like you've done a good job, looks neat and professional. well done.


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 20, 2012)

This might help explain... The role of convection currents in ventilating enclosures is important. So what is a convection current? Put simply, air over a hot surface gets hot. Hot air rises. Air pressure moves unheated air in to take its place. This air then gets heated and rises. This moving and rising current of air is known as a *convection current*. 


For any given enclosure, the degree and effectiveness of ventilation can be controlled by the size and placement of vents in relation to the placement and nature of heating elements.


Blue


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## nintendont (Dec 20, 2012)

quick question, if the holes were in melamine what would you seal with and how long before its safe to put the snake back in the enclosure and a proper seal job is done...also I have some little holes in the enclosure roof from the old light cage...are these at risk of water damage?


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## mad_at_arms (Dec 20, 2012)

nintendont said:


> quick question, if the holes were in melamine what would you seal with and how long before its safe to put the snake back in the enclosure and a proper seal job is done...also I have some little holes in the enclosure roof from the old light cage...are these at risk of water damage?



A couple of coats of acrylic paint will suffice. 
I would no more gaps the drill holes.

As soon as the smell from the paint/sealer is gone.


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## caliherp (Dec 20, 2012)

.


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## J-A-X (Dec 20, 2012)

mad_at_arms said:


> A couple of coats of acrylic paint will suffice.
> I would no more gaps the drill holes.
> 
> As soon as the smell from the paint/sealer is gone.


Looks like mad beat me to it. 
If you've got some silicone/no more gaps open then just a smear of that in the vent holes, with your finger - remove the vents it's easier to smear and make sure it's sealed


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## smileysnake (Dec 21, 2012)

with your airflow problem vents shoulb placed down low on hot side and up high on the cold side to create proper airflow and to get your ambient temps right one vent in middle not gonna do jack....easily fixed mate like cypher said bunnings is great even buy some sink drains they do the trick bunnings have heaps of those plastic vents in all different sizes just got to find the right size for your enclosure.....good luck...


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## buffcoat (Dec 21, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> This might help explain... The role of convection currents in ventilating enclosures is important. So what is a convection current? Put simply, air over a hot surface gets hot. Hot air rises. Air pressure moves unheated air in to take its place. This air then gets heated and rises. This moving and rising current of air is known as a *convection current*.
> View attachment 274737
> 
> For any given enclosure, the degree and effectiveness of ventilation can be controlled by the size and placement of vents in relation to the placement and nature of heating elements.
> ...



So, what that diagram is showing me, and tell me if I'm wrong, the vents need to be on the same side, one high one low? Then the heat source should be on the opposite side, correct? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## blakewilson (Dec 21, 2012)

I think there are many various ways of doing it, the main thing is one up high and one down low it all depends on where windows are situated in your house. The low side should be facing the window IMO. I put my vents on opposite sides and it is working really well. My enclosure keeps a steady temp within .4 of a degree


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## mad_at_arms (Dec 21, 2012)

The configuration and size of your vents will depend on whether you are trying to increase ambient air temp as well as a basking spot, hold humidity etc.


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 21, 2012)

*Buffcoat*, 
*Mad-at-arms* and *Blakewilson* (although I do not agree with the window comment – plenty of herp rooms do not have one) have got it right.

What the diagram is showing is the flow of air as a result of convection. The placement of the vents will, in simple terms, affect how much air in an enclosure is exchanged in a given period of time. The diagram shows how to get the maximum amount of air exchanged. Minimum would be both vents on the hot side. 

Say you wanted to have a section with high humidity, you wouldn’t want that air to be constantly exchanged. By putting both vents at the hot end, most of the air in the cool end stays put and you can build up the humidity there. 

Say you have a carpet enclosure and you want warm air in the top section because that’s where it likes to hang out a lot. Set up the vents as per the diagram, except the top vent would be positioned only 2/3 to 3/4 of the full height. This would result in a layer of warm air being trapped in the top section of the enclosure. As it cools off it is constantly being replaced by the rising warm air.

The thermodynamics of enclosures is not simple to dissect and explain. It involves the size, shape, construction material, surrounds and positioning of an enclosure. It also involves the type of heating, the wattage thereof, the position and how long it runs and if controlled by a thermostat. It is also influenced by the position, size and nature of vents plus any incidental openings, such as sliding door gaps, which allow airflow in or out.

Thank goodness, so long as we have a few basics in place, the temperatures can be fine tuned by playing with the wattage of heating elements and using a thermostat.

Blue


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## buffcoat (Dec 22, 2012)

Thank you Blue! I watch the Big Bang Theory. You explained that like Leonard would to Penny. /highfive

Seriously though, thank you. I'll be building an enclosure that will need higher humidity soon. That explanation helped tons. Thank you.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 22, 2012)

That's good to hear *Buffcoat* (my many years in the classroom werenot wasted).

You will find that with a top and bottom vent and some bottom heating, it really is very easy to get good ventilation and the size of the vents donot have to be very big. Due to designs that were inefficient at ventilating, there has been a tendency to over-play its importance. So you have had people suggest all sorts of things. For example, you can do the same using a computer fan - buy why go to all the extra effort if you do not have to? You can get good ventilation having a wire grid at the entire top of an enclosure. But it will usually require a higher wattage of heater and it becomes difficult yo maintain a high level of humidity, dependening on where you are etc. An understanding if convection currents should make life simpler and easier in achieving the conditions you want in an enclosure.

Good luck. And feel free to PM me if you ever have a question you think I might be able to answer. 

Cheers,
Blue


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