# Womas class 1



## dickyknee (May 7, 2009)

Any one seen the new species list ???
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/nature/CurrentSpeciesList.pdf


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## ShaunMorelia (May 7, 2009)

When was it due out?


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## dickyknee (May 7, 2009)

its out , see the link .


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## ShaunMorelia (May 7, 2009)

Just DL'd it.
Woma is class 1 wooo!!!


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## Bonustokin (May 7, 2009)

wow good find dicky!!! basic lic is all ya need to get a woma. thats gunna make alot of people happy i reckon.


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## benmcalpine (May 7, 2009)

Finally, I knew it would happen like this. I got my class 2 a few months ago!


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## dickyknee (May 7, 2009)

Better get in quick before the prices rise .


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## TWENTY B (May 7, 2009)

any other changes?


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## nat0810 (May 7, 2009)

Thanks for the link mate. I didn't even know it was out.

Woma are definately listed as R1 (basic reptile)

Time to call Snake Ranch


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## itbites (May 7, 2009)

Wow the coding system over their is confusing lol

Why are there so many different codes for each species?

eg; woma's R1, R2, R3, R4, R5....

Also great news for you guys I can only hope that the DSE

will follow suit eventually, woma's should def be up-dated to basic.


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## mark83 (May 7, 2009)

I got class 2 a week ago and bought two womas on saturday. oh well guess I'll have to buy some roughies


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## abbott75 (May 7, 2009)

Soooo.... anyone have a pair of NTs they wanna sell?


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## Vassallo2008 (May 7, 2009)

so can i buy a woma now? considering there on the class one? i have only got a class one.


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## ShaunMorelia (May 7, 2009)

they have a few hybrids listed....childreni x maculosa, childreni x stimsoni, spilota x cheynei etc etc
pg 20


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## Slateman (May 7, 2009)

Finally it happened.


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## MrBredli (May 7, 2009)

abbott75 said:


> Soooo.... anyone have a pair of NTs they wanna sell?



I do!!!


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## nat0810 (May 7, 2009)

itbites said:


> Wow the coding system over their is confusing lol
> 
> Why are there so many different codes for each species?
> 
> ...


 
Refers to what class can keep that animal. 

so Woma R1, R2, R3, R4, R5 can be kept by anyone with basic lic. or above.

Broad Headed R3, R4, R5 can only be kept by people with Advanced , Venemous cat 1 lic.

Make sense?


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## itbites (May 7, 2009)

Ahh yes it does lol

Us Mexicans only have 2 codes basic/advanced..

Thanks for clearing that up nat.

Also I hope this makes the woma market get back some of it's value!

Seeing them go for $300 is disturbing :shock: they are worth far more than that imo


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## nat0810 (May 7, 2009)

Good stuff.

I wasnt sure if my explanation skills were up to scratch.


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## nat0810 (May 7, 2009)

The prices will probably rise. Basic supply and demand. The demand will increase, and for the next few years i cant see the supply stepping up too much. Who knows though. Can't say i've kept a close eye on Woma prices, as untill now i couldnt have one.

I can upgrade in Oct anyway, so i wasnt terribly worried that they were on Class 2.


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## hodges (May 7, 2009)

Thank god for the woma change.

Only thing i don't like is the hybrids,


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## swaddo (May 7, 2009)

pfft, I wouldn't go out and buy up just yet ... it could well be a stuff up

childreni, maculosa and perthensis are antaresia, yet stimsoni are listed liasis?? jewelled gecko scientific name has changed, the class 1 woma could well be a typo too

I think NPWS need a good a proof reader ...


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## abbott75 (May 7, 2009)

swaddo said:


> pfft, i wouldnt go out and buy up just yet ... it could well be a stuff up
> 
> childreni, maculosa and perthensis are antaresia, yet stimsoni are listed liasis?? jeweled gecko ascientific name has changed, the class 1 woma could well be a typo too
> 
> I think NPWS need a good a proof reader ...



I'll be taking it while I can get it!!


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## ShaunMorelia (May 7, 2009)

abbott75 said:


> I'll be taking it while I can get it!!


 Make sure you have a copy reptile class then, just to prove to them that it was a class 1 when you got it.


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## snakehunter (May 7, 2009)

Is it just me, or are there no monitors on that list?


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## Gecko :) (May 7, 2009)

Yay!. Bout time!


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## Ned_fisch (May 7, 2009)

What about qld?


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## swaddo (May 7, 2009)

snakehunter said:


> Is it just me, or are there no monitors on that list?



nope, no monitors ... the list is still a beta i think. Might wait for SP1 before i touch it


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## BenReyn (May 7, 2009)

Alright!
Bout bloody time though
I thought I'de have to wait till im 18 before I'de get one.
Thats great news


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## boogeralby (May 7, 2009)

What happened to Rough scale snakes??????


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## FAY (May 7, 2009)

Best news I have heard for a while.


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## palmej (May 7, 2009)

now all they have to do is change it to class one in victoria


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## No-two (May 7, 2009)

It'd be great if dse would do several things with the list, add a few things bring a few thigns down etc, hope they're inspired by NSW doing it.


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## Duke (May 7, 2009)

What was removed from the Cat 3 vens? Weren't there more than three?


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## PythonRob (May 7, 2009)

Checked with DECC (NPWS) today and now shows on their website.

Womas are now available for Class R1 licenses in NSW.

(In my opinion) Excellent pythons with great temperment, much easier to care for than most other pythons and should have been Class 1 years ago.

I will be listing my 5 Womas for sale now, was awaiting the Class 1 changeover so hope whoever buys them will get to see how good they are to keep (Bought them to the Expo and lots of people showed a lot of interest in them).

Rob


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## Rainbow-Serpent (May 7, 2009)

Congratulations New South Welshham's's


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## snakes_666 (May 7, 2009)

snakehunter said:


> Is it just me, or are there no monitors on that list?


 
no i cant see any either


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## Gonzo (May 7, 2009)

*P. Mitchelli now class 1*

Pogona Mitchelli now class 1


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## snakes_666 (May 7, 2009)

Duke said:


> What was removed from the Cat 3 vens? Weren't there more than three?


 Rough scaled snake


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## chondrogreen (May 7, 2009)

De Vis banded snakes are class 1 too.
Dissapointed to see hybrids being legalized and condoned.

Good time to sell up and start a worm farm.


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## -Matt- (May 7, 2009)

Hybrids still arent legal, theyre just trying to keep track of whats out there.

Wish they released this list a week ago


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## chondrogreen (May 7, 2009)

Well they must be legal to keep track of them.
If keepers are admittedly open about keeping/breeding them on record without fear of fines or imprisonment, and the government officials supply the record keeping material for these Hybrid keepers then it must be legal.


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## -Matt- (May 7, 2009)

It says at the top:

Some hybridised animals are recorded in this list. The Department does not support native animal keepers who breed between animals of different​species.

But I cant actually find anything that says that it is illegal.


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## chondrogreen (May 7, 2009)

I guess they realized they couldn't control it so they decided to put them on licence to avoid them all being placed on record under pure. Pretty sad affair anyway, but what can they do.


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## bump73 (May 7, 2009)

As much as people like to say that hybrids are illegal in NSW without checking the facts, they are perfectly LEGAL, i don't agree with this but also don't like people filling the internet with BS..
This is a quote from DEC who is a member on this site...

*In NSW as it currently stands it is an offence to cross breed native and domestic waterfowl. This does not go further than that. In QLD and VIC it is an offence to breed hybirds. While there is no NSW law or regulation prohibiting the breeding of hybirds, it is not encouraged and when it does occour (as some of the codes for animals in NSW show) it is recomended that the animals not be used for breeding. That is the limit of the NSW legislation at the moment.
*
Ben


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## FAY (May 7, 2009)

UUmmm....what about lowbirds????


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## hilly (May 7, 2009)

Whats the story with the companion class license? its listed after some of the beginners pythons like childrens n carpets n diamonds but not after spotteds/stimsons..........


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## Jason (May 7, 2009)

bout time for thr change. i give it two seasona and the suplly will once again be too high imo. alot of people didnt breed there womas last season and now ALOT more wil be breed... my point is i cant see much change in the price.


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## hodges (May 7, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> De Vis banded snakes are class 1 too.



Always have been


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## John_lisa (May 7, 2009)

hehe now my 2 most fave snakes (except my spotted that i already have) are in the class 1 YAY


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## sweetangel (May 8, 2009)

where are they monitors?? did they leave them off or are we not allowed them anymore ??


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## John_lisa (May 8, 2009)

they must of left it out i cant see them in there and they cant stop us from keeping them not with out a good reson anyway can they :s??


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## Ishah (May 8, 2009)

No offence (to the NSWer's and the DEC), but that is like the most dodgey-est listing I have ever seen! Missing a fair bit of stuff...like missing out the monitors completely, and it doesn't give a description for "Companion" type licence down the bottom with the rest, nor does it explain what an actual "companion" licence is properly anywhere else, unless I missed that part, and like someone else said, it is listed as ok on companion type licences for pure Antaresia (excl. perthensis), but not the (Antaresia) crosses and some others I think... I'm sure there were other things I picked out, but can't remember, looks like it was a very rushed job they did! Fair few what appear to be typo's for something that is suppose to be a legal type thing... Might just be me who thinks this though... 

Hahaha Nice one btw Fay, jovial mood again?  lol I picked it up too lol. :lol:


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## Bushfire (May 8, 2009)

I found this to be interesting

"If the animal species you want to keep isn’t listed, you generally cannot keep it, although the department might consider requests to keep
unlisted species of reptile, bird or amphibian. If you are applying for a licence for an unlisted species, you will need to supply details of the species and​numbers you are proposing to keep, the legal availability of the species and its husbandry requirements in captivity."


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## Australis (May 8, 2009)

_Suta suta_ seems overly restricted, whats the story.


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## adbacus (May 8, 2009)

Isn't it nice of NPWS to raise this, just four days after the Frog and Reptile Show where there was a petition for Womas to go up to class 1.

NPWS could have boosted their revenue if they had brought this up during the show and sold Class 1 licences on site (as a few other APS members have already commented on).

But more importantly, they should have had a stall at the show to advise people on licence, the changes in the licencing, and scope of practice for keeping reptiles - husbandry, specialist vet practices.

There were quite a few parents who had gotten licences in order to for their kids to have a reptile that were asking the breeders questions about basic husbandry and care.


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## Lozza (May 8, 2009)

Ishah said:


> ...it doesn't give a description for "Companion" type licence down the bottom with the rest, nor does it explain what an actual "companion" licence is properly anywhere else, unless I missed that part...


 
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/parks/CompanionKeepersApplicationForm.pdf

You can only keep ONE animal on a companion licence. So if you only want to keep one blue tongue etc you can get a cheaper licence.


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## krefft (May 8, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> Well they must be legal to keep track of them.
> If keepers are admittedly open about keeping/breeding them on record without fear of fines or imprisonment, and the government officials supply the record keeping material for these Hybrid keepers then it must be legal.


 
Imprisonment :shock: What is the standard sentence at the moment? I bet your cell mate would be worried when he found out what you were in for.


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## Herc (May 8, 2009)

lets see if DEC bother to actually write to us and let us Offically know of the change...


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## zulu (May 8, 2009)

*re Womas*



johno799 said:


> they must of left it out i cant see them in there and they cant stop us from keeping them not with out a good reson anyway can they :s??



Youll have to return your goannas to the DECC office at hurstville straight away or your house could be raided by the swatt team,they are determined to drink the blood of every man woman and child with an outstanding goanna.


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## gillsy (May 8, 2009)

We had a chat with NPWS at the expo and they never mentioned anything.

The only thing as keepers we have to be worried of is minimum size enclosures eg 4ftx2fx2ft for each stimson's and this is going to be legally inforced.

Monitors would just be a screw up by the npws by not putting them on.


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## grimbeny (May 8, 2009)

Yes i tend to think this is just a sweetener for the new legislation they are bringing out on housing requirements, plus sales in pet shops is probably not too far off either.


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## swaddo (May 8, 2009)

a little OT, but are there any draft proposals in print regarding the new enclosure sizes? i wouldnt mind having a read


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## hawkesbury reptiles (May 8, 2009)

PythonRob said:


> Checked with DECC (NPWS) today and now shows on their website.
> 
> Womas are now available for Class R1 licenses in NSW.
> 
> ...


 
I agree.....much more interesting, calmer, and funny at times than morelia...
Much better for a first snake I think, size and temperament wise.....hopefully I should have a first clutch this season....great timing DECC...

Kelly


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## grimbeny (May 8, 2009)

There are several people involved in the discussions with npws, im not going to name them here. No information has been released from npws themselves.


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## seumas12345 (May 8, 2009)

Can I ask why Woma's were ever a class 2 animal?


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## hawkesbury reptiles (May 8, 2009)

grimbeny said:


> There are several people involved in the discussions with npws, im not going to name them here. No information has been released from npws themselves.


 

I wouldnt jump to conclusions just yet either....
It could all still be a typo.....I hope not though. 

Why doesnt someone give them a call? Before 12.00pm though.


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## gillsy (May 8, 2009)

seumas12345 said:


> Can I ask why Woma's were ever a class 2 animal?


 
Woma's were put on class 2 because they were rare in captivity and in the wild. 



hawkesbury reptiles said:


> I wouldnt jump to conclusions just yet either....
> It could all still be a typo.....I hope not though.
> 
> Why doesnt someone give them a call? Before 12.00pm though.


 
It's not a typo, but the new enclosure sizes are in discussions now.


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## Eylandt (May 8, 2009)

Just spoke to the ladies on the phone and theyre as confused as we are. Going in to see them this afternoon so will seek further clarification.


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## Eylandt (May 8, 2009)

I can however confirm that Monitor's should be on the list.


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## spongebob (May 8, 2009)

gillsy said:


> Woma's were put on class 2 because they were rare in captivity and in the wild.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Not my understanding. I've been led to believe that there were a variety of reasons for class two classification. In the case of womas was because they are considered a threatened species in NSW. It's a bit idiotic though as it kind of indicates that becasuse they are threatened in the wild in NSW this classification will somehow protect them. Even more idiotic when most of those in captivity are forms found in other states. Anyway it's all sort now


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## Jason (May 8, 2009)

the size requiurments is a large issue that we ALL need to be conserened about!

on a side note i love the first page with all the animal pictures... even more so i love that they have chosen a jag to put on there...haha


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## Duke (May 8, 2009)

Jason said:


> the size requiurments is a large issue that we ALL need to be conserened about!
> 
> on a side note i love the first page with all the animal pictures... even more so i love that they have chosen a jag to put on there...haha


LOLOLOLOL 
I didn't notice that!

I suggest they replace that with a Chameleon, or perhaps a rattlesnake.


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## gillsy (May 8, 2009)

spongebob said:


> gillsy said:
> 
> 
> > Woma's were put on class 2 because they were rare in captivity and in the wild.
> ...


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## outbackstorm (May 8, 2009)

Am I right in reading that you now need a class three to have RBB?


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## Jason (May 8, 2009)

Duke said:


> LOLOLOLOL
> I didn't notice that!
> 
> I suggest they replace that with a Chameleon, or perhaps a rattlesnake.



some star tortises,chameleons, boas and corns would color up the page a bit. does that make jags legit now...

those with jags you can come out of the closit now and show them off... i want one


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## Vat69 (May 8, 2009)

Jason said:


> those with jags you can come out of the closit now and show them off... i want one



Thay haven't already? I coulda sworn I saw some at the expo.. 

:lol:


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## Slateman (May 8, 2009)

Jason said:


> the size requiurments is a large issue that we ALL need to be conserened about!
> 
> on a side note i love the first page with all the animal pictures... even more so i love that they have chosen a jag to put on there...haha



I would think that npws will discuss this with leading herp keepers and people who are experts on reptile keeping in captivity.
Looks like they have draft proposal from some animal liberating organisation. 
In my opinion, npws will look at this proposal and make up they mind after proper consultation.


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## Eylandt (May 8, 2009)

Just got back from Ballot collection. Species list is being removed for review. Womas are 100% Class 1 though. List was released before they could organise a media release.


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## sweetangel (May 8, 2009)

I'm a bit concerned, they took the list of animals down....... will they change the woma back to class 2?? if so i'm in the ****e cos i've already bought one lol!


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## Eylandt (May 8, 2009)

sweetangel. I went to the office today to collect a ballot item. List is down for review to readd Monitors and such but I confirmed with them that Womas are infact on Class 1 now.


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## sweetangel (May 8, 2009)

oh phew!! i was a bit scared there. yay so excited about finally getting my woma!!


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## adbacus (May 8, 2009)

gillsy said:


> We had a chat with NPWS at the expo and they never mentioned anything.
> 
> The only thing as keepers we have to be worried of is minimum size enclosures eg 4ftx2fx2ft for each stimson's and this is going to be legally inforced.
> 
> Monitors would just be a screw up by the npws by not putting them on.



Gillsy - where was the NPWS -I didn't see a stall?


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## MrBredli (May 8, 2009)

outbackstorm said:


> Am I right in reading that you now need a class three to have RBB?


 
You need an R3, which was previously known as Class 2 - Category 1... they haven't changed.


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## hawkesbury reptiles (May 8, 2009)

adbacus said:


> Gillsy - where was the NPWS -I didn't see a stall?


 
NPWS guys were walking around most of the 2 days, no uniform though.


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## dottyback (May 8, 2009)

I used to think NPWS sucked, taking 3 weeks to do permits but after reading that list you guys are very lucky!


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## Jason (May 8, 2009)

Vat69 said:


> Thay haven't already? I coulda sworn I saw some at the expo..
> 
> :lol:



bugger i missed them... some absolute screamer RP carpets though on zacs table!

as for jags though i dont see why people who haved them are so secretive about them? they will be just as excepted todayu as the day they are finally out in the open. and now with NPWS making it clear that its not illegal to hybridise, the future of jags will take off for sure here


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## John_lisa (May 9, 2009)

hey guys i have a question with the enclosure size um im kinda lost what do u mean they will be legally inforcing it and is that only for stimson's cuz from what im gathering ur meaning is that the smallest the enclosure can be is 4ftx2ftx2ft for a stimson and if its any smaller ur un crap 

and if thats correct is that only for the stimson or will all snakes have a size regulation and if its not to much truble can some one explain why they are enforcing this 

cheers


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## Ishah (May 9, 2009)

johno799 said:


> hey guys i have a question with the enclosure size um im kinda lost what do u mean they will be legally inforcing it and is that only for stimson's cuz from what im gathering ur meaning is that the smallest the enclosure can be is 4ftx2ftx2ft for a stimson and if its any smaller ur un crap
> 
> and if thats correct is that only for the stimson or will all snakes have a size regulation and if its not to much truble can some one explain why they are enforcing this
> 
> cheers


 
Not sure on what other species it would be enforced on or how this will be enforced, but I'm guessing it would be for all reptiles.... This would be an animal welfare reason/issue and to do with the 5 freedoms that all animals are suppose to get as "rights" if you like... All animals have the right to the 5 freedoms... From memory, they are:

1. Freedom from hunger and thirst
2. Freedom from pain, illness and disease
3. Freedom from discomfort
4. Freedom to express normal behaviour
5. Freedom from fear or distress

The main one that the NPWS would be trying to ensure is the freedom to express normal behaviour by ensuring that they have sufficient space and proper facilities....

This is all just my assumption of course... But I'd say it would be for every reptile with different size requirement minimums for each species etc.

Thank you Dr Tribe! My uni course came in handy! Woooo! Hope you're proud! lol:lol:


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## adbacus (May 9, 2009)

hawkesbury reptiles said:


> NPWS guys were walking around most of the 2 days, no uniform though.



I didn't see anyone on Sunday. I woud've been better for a stall


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## LullabyLizard (May 9, 2009)

Finally


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