# This is How it Should Be!



## rodentrancher (Apr 24, 2006)

It's a pity our jails aren't this tough.


TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER. 



THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. 

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. 

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back." 

He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. 


More on the Arizona Sheriff: 

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts. 

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 deg rees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. 

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!" 

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves. 

If you agree, pass this on. If not, just delete it. 

Sheriff Joe was just reelected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona.


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## dobermanmick (Apr 24, 2006)

I agree !


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Lol I had that sent to me ages ago and saved it because I liked it so much. Good on him I say.


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## craig.a.c (Apr 24, 2006)

Sounds like he is doing a great job!


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

Pitty our governments don't have the balls to do this kind of thing, too many do gooders and peoples right wombats around. As far as I am concerned if you break the law and are caught, you loose all your rights, end of story.


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## inthegrass (Apr 24, 2006)

should be more of them.!!!!


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## Retic (Apr 24, 2006)

Couldn't agree more, here they get TV's and 3 course meals. Bloody do gooders have a lot to answer for.


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## Nagraj (Apr 24, 2006)

This might satisfy the general public's need for revenge for but it does nothing for crime rate, number of crimes solved, or overall cost of prosecutions.

Toughest Sheriff or Average Joe?


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## Retic (Apr 24, 2006)

Yes it does satisfy the publics need for revenge and you are right it does nothing for the crime rate BUT at least the public believe the perpetrators that are caught and punished actually receive punishment.


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## peterescue (Apr 24, 2006)

People who get off on this sick garbage are as bad as the people they lock up.


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## davidfbarnes (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh what a surprise Peterescue has a negetive comment to make.

Bravo mate, bravo....

If you don't like what is being said, then don't open your mouth. Being an Administrator you should set an example.... no wonder we have such silly tiffs on this message board.....


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## MrBredli (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh my god, what's happened to APS today? I'm calling in reinforcements..


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

:lol:


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## krusty (Apr 24, 2006)

i think thats the way they all should be.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2006)

> i think thats the way they all should be.



yeah  pass that reefer :lol:


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

Pack and pass colin.......


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## MrBredli (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah man.. peace to all..


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2006)

ahhh :shock: thats better...  there you go hugsta  

see why can't we all do this all the time :wink:


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## MrBredli (Apr 24, 2006)

Colin said:


> see why can't we all do this all the time Wink



Cos..


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

Mr Bredli , is that the pic of when they caught you last time , trying to give advice !. :lol:


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## MrBredli (Apr 24, 2006)

I've never been caught :twisted: 

To be honest i hate marajuana.. i think it is an evil, evil, evil drug. Sorry if that offends any of you stoners :lol:


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 24, 2006)

:lol:


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Jesus Mary and Joseph :shock:


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## MrBredli (Apr 24, 2006)

J&C, you had me absolutely stumped there! lol


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 24, 2006)

Yea just venting lol.


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## Retic (Apr 24, 2006)

So people who actually want criminals punished are as bad as the criminals ? :shock: 



peterescue said:


> People who get off on this sick garbage are as bad as the people they lock up.


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## Parko (Apr 24, 2006)

Amazing how by giving too much power to the ''left wing'' people become ''right wing'' minded and vice versa. A good example being the right wing policies of the USA in the sixties giving birth to the hippy movement(though in the end it turned out they were too stoned for ''movement'') Personally i think it is a human condition to be a messed up species and no amount of ideological social experimentation will ever find an answer. In the future perhaps they'll just cull those with undesirable genetic traits and the human species may see some change... dunno dont really care anymore anyway.


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## cwarren72 (Apr 24, 2006)

man I would take up voting to get someone like him in lol


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

Peter , just curious , what is the reasoning behind the comment that you originaly made ? Do you think that we should make it easier for the criminals behind bars ?


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## peterescue (Apr 24, 2006)

why, thankyou rockman.
I think people like JOE ARPAIO create criminals. They take petty criminals and harden then. Inure then to pain and degredation.
Giving them a reason to hate society an d exact revenge for the treatment administered upon them by self serving sociapaths.
You get get back what you put in. Sure, a lot of his ideas would be fine but it goes to far. It is, as someone else said, revenge and that is what you will get back. 

I removed my reply tyo Mr Barnes as I felt I had lowered myself in repling to him. After reading through his posts to date I see I should heed his advice more often. If I ever need any chit chat advice he will be the first person I seek out.


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I must admit, I do like his ideas, as I said before. But I can see your point. What I'm wondering though is with all the statistics quoted in the second article about him that was posted....why were there none on the rate of recidivism? Perhaps I skimmed through them too quickly and missed it. But that's what I'd be interested in hearing. It'd give some kind of indication as to whether it really does work.


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## nigmax (Apr 24, 2006)

Funny i used to think that everyone could have an opinion and voice it, but apparently you just have to agree or shutup


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

Hey Peter , this being nice thing works , what do you think ? :lol: I do feel that the judges are a little bit to soft . My personal opinion might kill 2 birds with 1 stone . The bad cases , just bump them off , end the gene pool , see that way they don't get to hate society , may make them think about doing it before they do it , we save money . All good reasons . I feel society is so soft on criminals today , i think a judge would maybe look at things differently if it happened to one of his family . OH NO !! i think i crawled out to far from under my rock . :wink:


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Mmmm....and what about the Ronald Ryan's of the world?


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## olivehydra (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten said:


> Mmmm....and what about the Ronald Ryan's of the world?[/quote
> 
> I do agree K, but didnt he recant at the final moment and admit to shooting the warden? :wink:


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Yes Olivehemithingy I've heard he did...and I had a feeling he would be the wrong example to use. I was of the impression though that whether he did or not is a topic of debate still. I'll amend my statement though and simply ask whether or not it's acceptable to introduce a death penalty for any crime when there's even the slightest chance you could kill an innocent? (Happy now Olivesdsyndromesufferer?  )


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## olivehydra (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten said:


> Yes Olivehemithingy I've heard he did...and I had a feeling he would be the wrong example to use. I was of the impression though that whether he did or not is a topic of debate still. I'll amend my statement though and simply ask whether or not it's acceptable to introduce a death penalty for any crime when there's even the slightest chance you could kill an innocent? (Happy now Olivesdsyndromesufferer?  )



Yes happy, and in agreement


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

:wink: :lol:


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten , if something really bad happened to you or your family , do you think that you would still think along the same lines . Just curious ? If you say that you would let justice work it out and then see that person demanding all the creature comforts and not be slightly peeved , i take my hat off to you , sincerly .


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## Fuscus (Apr 24, 2006)

First off - does punishment like that work? The USA has the highest percentage of people in jail; than any other country.
Second - what crimes did the inmates commit? I ask because many US states jail people for two years for having a joint


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

rockman said:


> Kersten , if something really bad happened to you or your family , do you think that you would still think along the same lines . Just curious ? If you say that you would let justice work it out and then see that person demanding all the creature comforts and not be slightly peeved , i take my hat off to you , sincerly .



Mmmm being slightly peeved is very different to wanting any offender for any offense to be executed (sorry, I'm waiting on a new pair of glasses, I have old lady eyes, I may have misread your post?). I wont go into details but yeah I've had something bad happen to a family member and I most certainly wouldn't want the people guilty to have had all life's creature comforts (which is why I said I liked Sherriff Joe's ideas). My concern would mostly be about whether or not his method's actually do work. Hence me wondering about the recidivism rates. And I'm anti death penalty...but then I'm also a bleeding heart mummy type  

Each to their own obviously, I don't need for everyone to agree with my views, I just think it's never possible to be 100% sure that everyone is guilty, and it's been shown in the US that the death penalty is not an adequate deterrant...so what exactly IS the benefit?


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

I believe that punishment should fit the crime, if you get get cought smoking pot, most times ppl are let of with a warning or community service which I think is fair enough. However, if someone is proven guilty of rape like some of the cases that have been around lately and I am talking "proper" rape where several men have physically assualted a female or vice versa, then the penalty should be death. The rape victim suffers the rest of their life, why should the attacker go to prison for a few years and then get out to carry on a normal happy life.


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I'll be honest hugsta and say that there's a part of me that does agree with what you're saying there. I've heard about what happens to those poor women and obviously wished that things could be changed to have the punishment fit the crime more appropriately....however I keep coming back to my previous question....what about the innocent people? Let's be honest, it's not only possible to "prove" an innocent person guilty...it happens more than we'd like to think.


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## rockman (Apr 24, 2006)

I do agree hugsta , except for the proper part . If found guilty of any serious crimes like that or mucking around with kids , they should not get a second chance . Just give them the green dream , just like putting a dog down i suppose . As i have told , i see things in black & white , not grey , and apparantly the world works in lots of different shades of grey .


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

I agree Kersten, it would only really apply to those cases that were open and shut. Especially with DNA testing these days it makes things a lot easier. I am still wondering why Martin Bryant is alive. He should have been shot on the spot IMO.


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

true rockman, the proper part was refering to those cases that women "accused" men of rape, but there were no real signs of struggle. Quite easy to say "stop" when you'r in the middle of things and if you don't, it's rape, and I believe that is not fair.


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

> Quite easy to say "stop" when you'r in the middle of things and if you don't, it's rape, and I believe that is not fair.



....and while I'm sure that you certainly don't mean any harm by that statement (I absolutely am not implying that you've said anything wrong or ignorant, I think I know where you're coming from)....do you have any idea how many men who actually are guilty use that argument as a defense?


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## scotchbo (Apr 24, 2006)

hear hear way to go do the crime and do the time send them to a prison not a hotel


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm sorry...I've just reread your post hugsta...can you clarify something for me please? Are you saying that if a man is asked to stop halfway through sex and he doesn't and it's classified as rape then that's wrong?


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## olivehydra (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten said:


> I'm sorry...I've just reread your post hugsta...can you clarify something for me please? Are you saying that if a man is asked to stop halfway through sex and he doesn't and it's classified as rape then that's wrong?



ditto


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## CodeRed (Apr 24, 2006)

olivehydra said:


> Kersten said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry...I've just reread your post hugsta...can you clarify something for me please? Are you saying that if a man is asked to stop halfway through sex and he doesn't and it's classified as rape then that's wrong?
> ...



think I know what Daz is trying to say ... its that its very easy for a woman to deliberately provoke a rape situation ... bit like entrapment

BTW this does not mean that you shouldnt stop when asked to. No means no, without exception.


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## NoOne (Apr 24, 2006)

Code Red your last sentence says it all.

Unless you have intent to rape someone i don't know how you can be provoked into a rape situation, if a women says stop or now and you do as she wishes whats the problem? The problems come if you don't do what she asks.

I can't see how anyone could think otherwise.

Hasn't anyone here seen all the ads on TV about this kind of thing? Seems that it is still needed in our society.


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I'd still really like to know exactly what hugsta meant by that last post. I responded to it at first thinking that he was referring to women who don't actually try to stop it or even want to stop it, but who have consensual sex and then lie about it later, that does happen it's true and it is also wrong. But I've an awful feeling now that it wasn't what hugsta was saying :?


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## CodeRed (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten said:


> I'd still really like to know exactly what hugsta meant by that last post. I responded to it at first thinking that he was referring to women who don't actually try to stop it or even want to stop it, but who have consensual sex and then lie about it later, that does happen it's true and it is also wrong. But I've an awful feeling now that it wasn't what hugsta was saying :?



Nah, I think thats what he was trying to say. Unfortunately its too easy for woemn to do this, and very hard for the man to prove otherwise, especially considering that in rape cases it's normally "guilty until proven innocent".


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## spongebob (Apr 24, 2006)

I've gone back to the original post and as it said deleted. 
Goodnight


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## peterescue (Apr 24, 2006)

rockman said:


> Hey Peter , this being nice thing works , what do you think ? :lol: I do feel that the judges are a little bit to soft . My personal opinion might kill 2 birds with 1 stone . The bad cases , just bump them off , end the gene pool , see that way they don't get to hate society , may make them think about doing it before they do it , we save money . All good reasons . I feel society is so soft on criminals today , i think a judge would maybe look at things differently if it happened to one of his family . OH NO !! i think i crawled out to far from under my rock . :wink:



I agree, at times there are instances were people are given sentences that are far to lenient. Inverse to this there are many instances of the opposite.
Which crimes are you advocating as bad. Smack dealers?, Grass(dont forget some of the hydro around), rapists and murderers, kiddy fiddlers, recidivist fine defaulters, truckies who plough into traffic holdups, armed robbers, embezzlers, junkies, alcoholics, prostitutes, homosexuals, jaywalkers, people suspected of having links to terrorist organisations, blokes on a night out,
Sheez, mate, I know a judge whos wife was blown up.

I am upset by people who enjoy the pain, suffering, degredation and torture of other living beings including people. You have no idea how much it upsets me.
It makes me cringe in horror. I have no problem with consenting adults who indulge in it as a passtime.
Saying that there are people I would like to see rot in hell but its not down to me. 
I do not support the death penalty, I dont support degredation and torture as a form of punishment.
Keep in mind that people arent always in jail for crimes of violence. The tent jail is in all likelyhood a county jail and not dealing with major crime. 
I would like to add for those who think I talk without experience. No, I havent been to jail. Yes I have been robbed, yes I have had my house broken into, yes I have lost irreplaceable possessions, I have been badly beaten and had my teeth kicked in and hospitalised during an unproked attack. I also beat someone unconcious with a metal milk crate once after he and his mates terrorised a group of friends and I. I could have gone to jail for that. I felt I was justified. his family ceratinly didnt.


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

Kersten said:


> I'm sorry...I've just reread your post hugsta...can you clarify something for me please? Are you saying that if a man is asked to stop halfway through sex and he doesn't and it's classified as rape then that's wrong?



Yes it is wrong, you should stop, absolutely. What I mean or I'm trying to say, is that two consenting adults can do the "deed" and after the fact a women can accuse him of rape, which is not fair and hard to be proven wrong. Obvioulsy, there are two sides to this story, as men can also use this as an excuse, which is also wrong. If a female says stop, then you stop, end of story. 

I certainly do not condone "rape" in any form, if you say no, then it's all over. Besides that, I don't think I could carry on anyway if she wasn't into it, if you know what I mean. :?


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## dobermanmick (Apr 24, 2006)

If it was closer to home i bet it would make some people find the death penalty satisfying .
I would do everything in my power to make anyone who would touch my kids in a perverted way suffer for thier actions 
Kids are innocent and trusting why should the people that interfere with them get a second chance **** them !


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I see now. Thanks for that hugsta, you had me worried there for a minute. Yes it's definitely wrong for a woman to have consunsual sex and then later pretend it wasn't. It'd be naive of me to say that never happens. Unfortunately there are men out there who know this and use it as a means to cast doubt on women who they actually have raped. 

And yes I know what you mean.

Code Red, the "guilty til proven innocent" issue is subjective. It works both ways, I don't know that it's skewed in favour of either victim or perpetrator.

And (for the most part) I agree with what Peterescue has said. I'll expand on it alittle further though by saying that I'd never want to be a judge or member of a jury which had to determine the guilt or innocence of a person when the punishment for the crime was execution. I would never want the responsibility of deciding whether or not someone else lived or died....so why would I support a system which would put other people into that position?

Apparently in American states in which the death penalty is applicable there have been many cases in which a guilty person has been found innocent for the sole reason that execution would be the punishment and the jurors haven't been able to bring themselves to order it and so they look for the tiniest and most improbable chance that the person may be innocent. So then you have guilty people getting away with things they shouldn't.


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## Parko (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah i agree Doberdude, if that kinda thing hits your own home out come the axes, all the enlightened wisdom of the civil world means nothing. Some people seem to forget that humans are part of nature too, or should be, whilst a small minority may have some heavenly type of tolerance it doesn't mean we need obey their wishes.


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

Couldn't agree more with you Mick, even more so now that I have a son of my own.

I agree Kersten, but if it is proven beyond doubt, then the death penalty should be given.


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Ok then...how would it feel if a member of your family was falsely accused of rape, murder, molestation....something along those lines and was executed for it? It's not about "heavenly tolerance" it's about seeing all the arguments (where possible)

I know what you're saying hugsta...but what I'm tryibng to say is that there are times where people are convinced that a case has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt....and have been wrong. So who is it out there who could truly say they'd always know. 100% of the time?


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## hugsta (Apr 24, 2006)

It's an endless debate, you can also argue how many criminals have been let off without being punished accordingly. When I say proven beyond doubt, I mean like Martin Bryant who shot heaps of people in Tassie and was sent to prison, he should have been shot then and there, all those innocent ppl died and he goes to gaol, tell me that's fair.

I don't disagree with you, but I certainly believe the criminals are treated far better than the innocent, we have homeless ppl on the street with no food or anywhere to live, but if they go to jail, they are treated much better. They get 3 meals a day, a bed to sleep in and TV.


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## dobermanmick (Apr 24, 2006)

Our justice system is still in the dark ages, before we had all the new evidence like Dna testing !
I would feel the same if a member of my family molested my kids as anyone else probably more so if i had put my trust in them .


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh don't worry, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that I think criminals get it easy. I mentioned in an earlier post that something had happened to someone close to me and that I certainly didn't want the guilty parties to get it easy. Well they in fact got it more than easy. There's seriously incriminating evidence to say they did it and they still were never convicted. So yeah...guilty people do get off. People who go to jail do often get it easy...and you're right, there's no end to the debate.

Mick...what I actually said was what if someone in your family was FALSELY accused of a crime like that, and convicted. In other words...what if they didn't do it, but were "found" guilty and executed.


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## dobermanmick (Apr 24, 2006)

Dna testing ? is fairly conclusive evidence just as being caught red handed these people dont deserve to live IMO
Also as you stated FALSLEY accused which is not the same as a conviction .


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## Kersten (Apr 24, 2006)

I think we're mixing signals. It's possible to get a conviction for an innocent person. I'm asking what you would think if that happened to someone you loved.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 24, 2006)

I can speak from personal experience when I tell you that I have been found not guilty of an offence that I was in fact guilty of and further more have been convicted for a crime that I was not guilty of. Just because some one is found in court to be guilty, does not mean that they in fact were. It is only remains a fact that they have been convicted on a belief that they were guilty. On the prison bit, I can also speak from experience after having spent a small amount of time in maximum security. I can honestly tell you that prison is an absolute joke. I could do nothing all day if I wanted to, could watch video's, play games, play musical instruments, drink unlimited amounts of free tea or coffee, received good meals and a small income. In fact I was effectively earning an additional $100 clear a day which was coming off my fine. I was allowed to buy my own personal TV if I didn’t want to watch the main one and one inmate who I met had every thing you could ever want in his cell besides a female. Admittedly I was only there for just under two months and probably didn't get the chance to really miss freedom but it should have been an experience that I absolutely hated to become a huge deterrent.
And just incase anyone thinks I was an extremely bad person, I was sent to prison for refusing to pay a fine I received for getting caught for keeping reptiles in NSW just before they had that states amnesty for the same thing. As they say though, do the crime, do the time. It should now be said, do the crime, have a reasonably comfortable time.


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## moosenoose (Apr 25, 2006)

I really like the sound of JOE ARPAIO! He gets the big thumbs up from me. I just hope he's doing it for all the right reasons though, and not the typical media attention that part of the country seems to enjoy basking in the light of.
To all of those that say" Oh he's served his time, leave him alone', it's all CRAP! Some (and I say some) of those criminals never change! Our justice sytem lets down our public on a daily basis!Our lax laws and EASY sentences really leave many in our society wondering what the hell is going on in the minds of the judges! The cops are outraged risking life and limb bringing in the dregs of society, while our Porsche driving solicitors and judges give em the rovolving door treatment! If there has got to be a scapegoat in the system to deter would-be criminals- let it be the ones who commit the crimes!


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 25, 2006)

I can't comment on jail time in NSW as I did my small stint in Lotus Glen maximum security prison in Mareeba North Queensland. Every body back then went to maximum security because until they knew you didn’t have aids or were not likely to commit suicide you were classed as high risk. After blood tests, and interviews every few days with a psychiatrist you eventually become classified as a medium risk and if no incidents occurred, a low risk. Not until then were you eligible to be considered for prison farm placement. etc
. 
It sounds like your experience (I am assuming it is your experience) was bad.
Like I said I my experience was good and I enjoyed myself most of the time.
I will admit though, I was treated a bit differently than most as I was friends with one of the prison guards.
As far as playing musical instruments we did indeed have access to them every day if that was what you wanted to do. It sounds like N.S.W jails are a lot different.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 25, 2006)

It appears that a post I just responded to has just dissapeared.


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

Lol I was going to ask what happened there....


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 25, 2006)

He perhaps decided that he had no reason to make it known that had spent time in prison in case he was unfairly judged by it. I also thought twice about exposing my history.


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

That's understandable.


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## AntaresiaLady (Apr 25, 2006)

I have many friends who have been wrongly imprisoned, or that have gotten away with things they should have technically gone to jail for to say the system is failproof.
Its true criminals get it too easy. There's no bones about it. I also believe that rehabilitation can work, and that some people DO learn their lesson first time round. 
I've heard people make general sweeping statements about criminals re-offending...I'd say of all the criminals I've ever known, I only know of two who reoffended. 

A close friend to me was convicted and spent two years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Whilst there he witnessed many beatings, and a man stabbed to death right in front of him. He is forever scarred, and spends most of his time drunk now- he is haunted by his time in jail. It turned a good guy who hung around the wrong people into a mess. Its a crazy crazy world we live in. It truly is. 

I agree with the Sheriff in some instances, but I wonder where it ends? When someone dies from exhaustion? I would be interested to know what kind of people he is in control of- what level of criminality are they?


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## Ramsayi (Apr 25, 2006)

Prison is FULL of innocent people.Ask them they'll tell you :shock:


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## AntaresiaLady (Apr 25, 2006)

Ramsayi, was that a reply to my comment? 

I'll elaborate the cases for you if you'd like.  

And I know prison is full of innocent people- everyone there is  LOL!


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## dobermanmick (Apr 25, 2006)

> A close friend to me was convicted and spent two years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Whilst there he witnessed many beatings, and a man stabbed to death right in front of him. He is forever scarred, and spends most of his time drunk now- he is haunted by his time in jail. It turned a good guy who hung around the wrong people into a mess. Its a crazy crazy world we live in. It truly is.


And bet he told you he was innocent didnt he ?


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

So what your saying is, it wasn't him that was running around with a gun shooting , as you put it, in front of 100 running screaming people, it was someone else and he was just pretending. Sorry if I find that hard to believe.


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## Retic (Apr 25, 2006)

> I have many friends who have been wrongly imprisoned,


 :shock: 

I don't have any friends who have been imprisoned rightly or wrongly and I have been around bikers for 20 odd years. :lol:


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

You also forget to mention that he suffered Aspergers syndrome(not sure on the spelling) which is a form of schitsophrenia(?), have you any knowledge of this condition, if you did, you would realise that the people who have it, as my niece has it, go compeletely off the rails and within an hour so, somtimes longer, they have absolutely no recolection of what they did. But, I suppose they used this information to try and help pin the blame on him too. How come you know so much about it all and how do you know they are all factual. After all, there are still those that believe Buzz was not the first person on the moon - that's just speculation, not factual and still unproven that he didn't. All the eveidence is there that he did though, so does this mean he did or didn't.


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## peterescue (Apr 25, 2006)

AspergerSyndrome is a form of autism. Its pretty much flavour of the month with psychologist. Its the new ADD. Its a way of explaining away antisocial behaviour. Its a series of behavoural charateristic. Autism can be detected through genetic tests. I dont know if Aspergers can be. 
Half the people on this list could be described as having Aspergers by the way the behave. 
I dont deny the existance of Aspergis, just its over diagnosis.


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

Don't disagree Pete, there are too many kids out there that doctors say have ADD or ADHD. My neice, however, went through that many tests that it wasn't funny. The doctors used to blame the mother but couldn't explain why the other 4 kids were OK, she needs to be on medication to help control it. They can't handle any change and once in a routine can be OK. How many 13 yr old kids get excited about going to dreamworld for their first time and once there, refuse to go becasue they can't handle all their emotions and just want to stay in the hotel and not go anywhere, it is pretty sad. I am also a sceptic about ADD and the like myself, too many docotrs find it easy to blame the kids behaviour on it, but when you see it with someone that truely has it, it is a different and eye opening thing.


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## peterescue (Apr 25, 2006)

when I went to art school, we had a guy with Schizophrenia(there were several actually). totally destroyed his life but he appeared to manage well and was a pretty good artists. he gave a talk on the topic and pointed out other famous artists who had been schizophrenis. After the talk there were people walking around claiming to be a bit scizo or a bit autisitic.Thought it added a bit of colour to their artistic pretensions. Sad really.


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

My godmother's son-who is only a few years younger than me-was "diagnosed" with ADD when he was 8 or so. Overnight he'd gone from a bright, cheeky but loving boy to an absolute monster. After all of about two or three doctors visits my godmother was advised to start him on drugs for it, over the next 10 or so years they tried many different treatments for his "condition", none of which worked very well and some seemed to make him worse. When he was 19 she took him to yet another in a long series of doctors who expressed his disgust at what had preceeded in terms of his treatment and testing because (as it turned out) he'd never had ADD at all. He was schizophrenic and had been the whole time. The first doctor was way too quick to jump on the ADD bandwagon (at the time it was just starting to reach almost hysterical proportions) and subsequent doctors just assumed the initial diagnosis was correct.


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

You still haven't answered my question, how come you know so much? And if this information is correct and common knowledge, then surely this would be enough to have a royal commision entered into. Doesn't add up that ALL the evidence is pointed toards his innocence and he still went to gaol. As spoken about earlier on in this topic, if you were on the jury and had any doubt that it wasn't him or the wasn't 100% conclusive evidence, would you send him to prison for the rest of his life. The media would not have much effect on the jury once the trials started as they are kept in isolation of any media, tv, newspaper etc.


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

Well, it is certainly interesting, that's for sure.


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## Retic (Apr 25, 2006)

Are you saying that not one single person actually saw him shooting ? I don't pretend to know much about the case but I thought he was wandering around on foot shooting indiscriminately and if so surely someone would have seen him. I thought it was fairly cut and dried that he did it ?
I don't doubt that this or any other Government would do what you suggest but I must admit I have never heard anything about possible doubt as to his guilt.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~jenks/carleen.html


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## Fuscus (Apr 25, 2006)

A number of "Alternative" theories can be traced back to Joe Vialls 
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Joe+Vialls&curtab=2222_1

to see more of this gentlemans work see http://www.vialls.com/


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

Are you using the term gentleman loosely Fuscus?


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

I do notice however that the statistics in this theory differ to those offered by J and C........and I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find yet more examples of differing stories. It's the same with just about any historical event.


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound as if I'm critiscising you or something.....but how do you know this for sure? How is it different to any other story on offer? Were you there?


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

No need to be sarcastic, I'm showing you the respect and courtesy of being polite. How did you get the transcripts?


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## MrBredli (Apr 25, 2006)

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer :lol:


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

It's hardly stupid to ask if a person was there Mr Bredli, do you know the names of everyone who was? Do you know exactly who you are talking to when you chat in these threads? If so you are one up on everyone who chats online. If I had assumed he wasn't there, and had no basis for what he's saying and I'd been wrong I'd have felt horrible to be proven wrong. I don't have the need to treat people I chat with online with ignorance, if you do, then that's your choice.


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## Kersten (Apr 25, 2006)

I see. It's certainly very interesting. Thank you for clearing that up.


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## AntaresiaLady (Apr 25, 2006)

dobermanmick said:


> Quote: ?
> A close friend to me was convicted and spent two years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Whilst there he witnessed many beatings, and a man stabbed to death right in front of him. He is forever scarred, and spends most of his time drunk now- he is haunted by his time in jail. It turned a good guy who hung around the wrong people into a mess. Its a crazy crazy world we live in. It truly is.
> 
> 
> And bet he told you he was innocent didnt he ?



He didn't need to tell me he was innocent. I was WITH HIM when the alleged incident occured. I'll leave you all to imagine just what that means. I was one witness against five who were drunk, and or drugged out at the time. And for some ridiculous reason unknown to me - their 'testimony' was said to be more credible than mine, because they locked him up. 

And Boa- you must hang around with some really nice bikers. All the ones I knew (my godfather was in a bike 'club') have some people in them who have criminal records of some sort.

I don't hang out with any of my old friends anymore- I grew up and moved away- happy to say most of them grew up too!


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## Slateman (Apr 25, 2006)

My apology if some posts don't make sence, but JandC_Reptiles ask to remove his posts.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Apr 25, 2006)

Sorry about that, 
I think specific comments I made should of not been said publically.


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## inthegrass (Apr 25, 2006)

does anybody have any positive alteratives to the way sheriff joe arpaio operates.
if you do please share them with us.
cheers.


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

> Are you saying that not one single person actually saw him shooting ? I don't pretend to know much about the case but I thought he was wandering around on foot shooting indiscriminately and if so surely someone would have seen him. I thought it was fairly cut and dried that he did it ?
> I don't doubt that this or any other Government would do what you suggest but I must admit I have never heard anything about possible doubt as to his guilt.



My thoughts exactly.


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## Parko (Apr 25, 2006)

I'm suprised you guys haven't heard mention of Bryants possible innocence in conversations before, i've heard talk of this before, most of what J&C wrote is common knowledge to many people, hell i wouldn't be surprised if there's a book written about it. I have no idea what is the truth of it all but am certainly open to the possibility of foul play in Bryants case.


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

I am going to wait for the movie. ;-)


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## Parko (Apr 25, 2006)

Yeah hugsta mate, that's what almost everyone does, me included :wink:


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## Parko (Apr 25, 2006)

AntaresiaLady said:


> And Boa- you must hang around with some really nice bikers. All the ones I knew (my godfather was in a bike 'club') have some people in them who have criminal records of some sort.



Antlady, i think Boa might be referring to the chardonnay sipping weekend only type ''biker'', you know the ones that go back to their jobs as Lawyers, accountants etc on monday morning, rather than the axe weilding, drug peddling gang type bikers.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 25, 2006)

"Cue XFiles theme song" Government conspiracy,Bryant's innocent " End XFiles theme song"

Seriously its not the first time I have heard that about Bryant.Milat and Chopper told me too :roll:


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## Parko (Apr 25, 2006)

Lol Ramsayi, that's it mate there is a conspiracy theory for almost every massacre that ever happened. It didn't take long for conspiracy theories to arise after Sept 11 either, you know like Bin boy was in with Big W to bring on the next big war and that. I dont regard all of the conspiracy theories as being baloney just because there are so many of them but, though many are plainly absurd. I guess in the end we are mostly all like sheep and as long as we are all well fed who's going to do anything about anything anyway? Now pass me that hamburger...


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## hugsta (Apr 25, 2006)

Would you like fries with that Parko.


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## Parko (Apr 26, 2006)

Goes without saying Huggy, a nice cold beverage to wash it down with too please. :wink:


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