# The death of Kevin Budden



## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Long story, but a good one none-the-less. 

http://www.barefootbushman.com/budden.htm


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

I have read that before,
it is a great story, always touches me, people like that are true herpers, he died doing what he loved, and saved lives in the proccess.

I have just decided, that when I one day get Taipans, I will name one after him.

Good on you, for posting that sherm.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

"Ow ow, stop biting me Budden, ow stop it"

Brodes last words.....lol


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

what i don't understand is if you are going after a deadly snake why go alone? i wouldn't call this guy a true herper, rather an idiot!


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

jesus christ dude,
you just called the man many herpetologists respect more than god.
Why couldnt you just keep your mouth shut man!


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## NoOne (Jul 30, 2004)

never heard of him


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## Fuscus (Jul 30, 2004)

While we all owe him a debt, he still let his enthusiasm could his judgement. Grabbing a fatality venomous snake when there is no antivenin available is not a smart act. Its not as if the taipan is a rare snake, there would have been other opportunities.


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## spottedpython (Jul 30, 2004)

i heven't heard of him either


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

So what? People are supposed to leave snakes, because there is no anti-venin for them?? How do you think anti-venin was first made.

Also how many taipans have you seen fuscus, Im not sure if they are 'rare' but they are extremely hard to find, poor Johnny Weigal is having trouble finding them!


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

maybe cos he thought he was god he wouldn't get biten!! brought him down a peg or too...

still shouldn't of gone on his own.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

ahh, I never said anyone thought he was god, or he respected himself more than God, read my post and then comment.

How much herping do you do? I go out everyday and nearly always go alone. I handle elapids, whats wrong with it? If he didnt go alone, he would never have found that snake, and people may have had to wait longer for antivenom.

This guy is a hero. Get used to it.


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## spottedpython (Jul 30, 2004)

sorry to say but if people just left the bush alone and don't go in there then they most likely won't get bitten. on the farms you have no choice but people in towns and cities do the reptiles are best left alone not disturbed or picked up. it brings stress on them exspecialy being wild. and they say while bush walking or camping never go alone just in chase you get bitten or something dangerous happens. brodie if you got bittin you wouldn't be thought of a hero you will thought of an idoit who dicided to go alone and died because of it. yeah antivenom was produced by the snakes they needed the snakes venom to make the antivenom thats what i heard and read. no ones a hero i don't think no guy that goes out there and gets themselfs killed just for that is an idoit. maybe if people just stood still the snake would move on. and then maybe they should of just not go in the bush or where there are snakes and that is less chance of getting bitten.


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## Fuscus (Jul 30, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Also how many taipans have you seen fuscus,


3 Maybes, 1 very likely (98%). They are a fast shy snake so you generally don't get a good look at them.


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

he's not a hero, a hero isn't someone that kilsl themselves for self glory. after reading that article it sounds like he didn't ahve a intelligent bone in his body.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Oh ok,
I have seen a quite a few, but I lived up that way for 6 years hehee


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## dobermanmick (Jul 30, 2004)

> maybe cos he thought he was god he wouldn't get biten!! brought him down a peg or too...
> 
> still shouldn't of gone on his own.


I agree


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Soulweaver
what the hell would you know?
How many venomous snakes have you caught?
have you even handled a taipan? 
he caught it for a reason, and you must remember things were different back then.

he has indirectly SAVED LIVES, so how the hell could he not be a hero?

Also, for the record: I do not agree entirely with what he did, it was his fault, he made a mistake, but he IS a HERO and is respected!


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

exactly things were different, you may say i've caught this and that, but there is also alot more known abt them now. you no more of what to expect. 

and no i haven't handled a taipan, i have more common sense unlike the 'hero' you keep referring too


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

ah, so you are now saying everyone who has handled taipans have no common sense???


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

if the shoe fits


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

huh??? can yoe please elaborate?
me no understand


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## Fuscus (Jul 30, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Oh ok,
> I have seen a quite a few, but I lived up that way for 6 years hehee


And the 98% was a wild fierce snake near cullamulla, about 1500 km inland on the QLD/NSW border. Didn't live up to his name.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Im totally with you Brodes. 

These people disputing him are just clowns. You dont find cures and what have you for diseases by just stumbling on them. 

I think if his heart was in it and it surely was, then this man is a Hero, if it wasnt for him starting the anti-venime chase of the taipan, how many people would be dead today. 

You wouldnt call the guy that founded penicillin an idiot, so dont call this legend an idiot either. 

Respect is and easy thing to have, i suggest you should get some Soulweaver.


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## Fuscus (Jul 30, 2004)

Teamsherman said:


> ...You dont find cures and what have you for diseases by just stumbling on them. ...


 I think you should read on how they discovered penicillin


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

Well said shermy, Im rasing my beer to ya mate.

fuscus, have I told you i hate you?  I have seen fiercey's (ithink) not 100 percent so I dont put them on my lists of animals I have seen! I have never been more than 70 percent sure, my principal back in Quilpie, told me the snake I caught was a fierce snake, dunno if he was right though...hope not!


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## Fuscus (Jul 30, 2004)

Baritji said:


> fuscus, have I told you i hate you?


Well, the little blighter didn't give me a chance to photograph him which stilll annoys me. Hope that makes you feel better.



Baritji said:


> my principal back in Quilpie, ...


Where the heck is that? The current known range of fierce snakes is around the SA/QLD/NSW border area with isolated populations south and west. According to Swan and Wilson old records say that specimens have been found at the junction of the murray and darling rivers. 

As it is a shy and cryptic snake, I think that it is possible that its range may be greater than is recorded.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

hehehe oh well, at least you saw it!

I cant remember anymore lol, it is western QLD, near simpson dessert...that was when I was 6


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## sobrien (Jul 30, 2004)

Yea brodie and shermy, I'm with you guys.
'nough said.


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## sxereturn (Jul 30, 2004)

What I don't understand, is what this other person would have done if they had gone with him?


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## hey_im_sam (Jul 30, 2004)

SW, he "kill[ed] himself for self-glory"??? WTF?!? This guy DID save lives by what he did; which was something more worthwhile than what most people accomplish in their lives. I can't get over how disgusted I am by your attitude in this... get over yourself mate, shermy has the right idea. This man's to be respected, not belittled.


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## ackie (Jul 30, 2004)

spottedpython said:


> sorry to say but if people just left the bush alone and don't go in there then they most likely won't get bitten. on the farms you have no choice but people in towns and cities do the reptiles are best left alone not disturbed or picked up. it brings stress on them exspecialy being wild. and they say while bush walking or camping never go alone just in chase you get bitten or something dangerous happens. brodie if you got bittin you wouldn't be thought of a hero you will thought of an idoit who dicided to go alone and died because of it. yeah antivenom was produced by the snakes they needed the snakes venom to make the antivenom thats what i heard and read. no ones a hero i don't think no guy that goes out there and gets themselfs killed just for that is an idoit. maybe if people just stood still the snake would move on. and then maybe they should of just not go in the bush or where there are snakes and that is less chance of getting bitten.



I am with brodie on this all the way. I mainly go herpin alone and i am not gonna stop doing it. U say that snakes get really stressed out once cort, hmmmm, that must be why on a few occasions i put the snake down and it goes and eats a frog with me still in its presence. Unless people handle the snake really roughly and are hurting it they are not going to get overly stressed and recover quickly.
I reckon kevin deserves a lot more recognition than wat u ars*holes have been giving him. Just because he died while doing sumthan dangerous, in the long run has helped save lives of a lot of people and for all u know it could save u one day.
Soulweaver, u truly are a Warning, This is unexceptable swearing


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## hey_im_sam (Jul 30, 2004)

before it gets deleted ackie, i wanna say you rock dude  and brodes for your posts that exist, and those that are no longer with us


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## NoOne (Jul 30, 2004)

i've never heard of the bloke, but i also do most of my herping alone and i still play with brown snakes etc, wouldn't stop either.


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## Parko (Jul 30, 2004)

LMAO Ackie, always straight up eh mate!?


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## ackie (Jul 30, 2004)

lol, depends wat its about. they shouldnt be ripping credit away from people who deserve it. I would like to see them do a better job.


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## Parko (Jul 30, 2004)

Yeah he chose his own path for better or worse, he would have known the risks and good on him for living as he pleased regardless of peoples judgements.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2004)

yeah Deleted whatever some dicks think about him, this guy was a champion, and I am in his debt..having almost lost a good mate to a taipan just yesterday... he would be dead if it wasnt for the anitvenom.... he would be gone... you Deleted who are talking **** about kevin budden get STUFFED
Brodie

PS from admins. If you guys will not fix your language, we will start deleting messages instead editing. No time to edit all the time.


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## soulweaver (Jul 30, 2004)

at least i can put my arguement foward without the insults, insults prove you no little about what you are talking about. espically in regards to penicillin.

as someone else said there are plenty of other snakes out there, he didn't have to give his life on that day for that particular snake. he could of waited until he had the right equipment to capture a snake for the research he was after.

it easy to say that you would go out there and handle a taipan, but you also know whilst your doing this that there is anti-venom available to you if the same situation was to come up.

sorry if my comments upset everyone, but at the end of the day it is silly and now proven pointless to go out there and capture a animal that is dangerous ill-equiped.

SW


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

soulweaver said:


> at least i can put my arguement foward without the insults, insults prove you no little about what you are talking about. espically in regards to penicillin.
> SW



you are referring to me in that statement and not once did i insult you mate. 

And as for not knowing what i am talking about, all i can say is that i know disrespect when i read and see it. 

Alan.


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## ackie (Jul 31, 2004)

ill-equipped...wat do u mean by that. because of him, we r now equipped. Any taipan he would hav tried to catch had the potential to kill him in any situation. I think the main reason people reacted the way they did is the way u were bagging him out coz he died while doing sumthing more dangerous than u would have.


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## ackie (Jul 31, 2004)

by the way, wasnt penacillen discovered by accident wen mould grew on sumthing in the Lab.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

Teamsherman said:


> you are referring to me in that statement and not once did i insult you mate



if you didnt insult him then what makes you think he was talking about you lol 



ackie said:


> Soulweaver, u truly are a fuking wanker



oh grow up :roll: . you dont have to insult to get a point across kids :?


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## ackie (Jul 31, 2004)

i do


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## hey_im_sam (Jul 31, 2004)

Zoe, TS was talking about the penicilling comment being used in the same context as people wo have insulted him. So yes, he was talking about him.
And ackie's speaking his mind as much as he is insulting, no probs with that! 


> Soulweaver:
> at least i can put my arguement foward without the insults, insults prove you no little about what you are talking about.


What??!?! How often have you heard of this man before tonight?? I'm pretty damn sure that brodie ad ackie have a MUCH better idea what he's talking about than you do


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

ok i think it has kinda been blown out of context just a teensy weensy bit...i think the point SW was trying to make is that it doesnt really seem like it was necessary for this dude to go out alone to catch it. especially when there is no antivenin around. dont get me wrong, i know nuthin about this dude or the situation but it does sound a tad silly to me :?

there hasnt been enuf fighting around here recently has there lol. its all been building up


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

zoe, did ya read the thing this was the first one caught in 30 years
it was a BIG thing


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## hey_im_sam (Jul 31, 2004)

> zoe:
> i know nuthin about this dude or the situation


There you go.


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

actually this article has been around for years and its not the first time i've read it. it's also not the first time its been posted on aps.

ackie, ever heard of safety in numbers?

and the article says the snake was milked, it doesn't say that particular snake was used to create the first anti-venom. Therefore he might not even be responsable for creating the anti-venom for that particular species.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

Hey_Im_Sam said:


> Quote:
> zoe:
> i know nuthin about this dude or the situation
> 
> ...



ok ok whats the point in trying to be nice and not get uncontrollably EDITED if everyone else keeps throwing crap back at ya? i thought maybe you could have been mature enough to not take something NICE that i said and make a nasty comment back.


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

after reading my initial post it would seem it came across a bit heartless. Sorry if i offended anyone who holds kevin budden in high regards. My point was it seems silly going after a species which little was known about by yourself.

sorry if you are offended.

SW


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Good stuff SW.

Cheers, Alan.


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## spottedpython (Jul 31, 2004)

like they say if you haven't got anything nice to say don't say it.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

soulweaver said:


> exactly things were different, you may say i've caught this and that, but there is also alot more known abt them now. you no more of what to expect.
> 
> and no i haven't handled a taipan, i have more common sense unlike the 'hero' you keep referring too



I think that we can thank to people like him that we know more about them 
I think that Lot of comments here in this topic is made by people who have no Idea. It is hard to do reserch and drag somebody with you each time. Lot of great herpers do work solo.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

spottedpython said:


> i heven't heard of him either



Yes we know. :wink: 
About time to get some information about him. 

It is easy to call him Idiot if you do not know much about the guy.
I think SW that at that point you upset many people. I am glad that you realize that.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

hey_im_sam said:


> SW, he "kill[ed] himself for self-glory"??? WTF?!? This guy DID save lives by what he did; which was something more worthwhile than what most people accomplish in their lives. I can't get over how disgusted I am by your attitude in this... get over yourself mate, shermy has the right idea. This man's to be respected, not belittled.



I totaly agree with sam.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

is that why u didnt edit ackie's comment slatey?


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

soulweaver said:


> and the article says the snake was milked, it doesn't say that particular snake was used to create the first anti-venom. Therefore he might not even be responsable for creating the anti-venom for that particular species.



slateman there is no actual proof that kevin did anything other then catch the snake. i am looking into this more but with the evidence submitted how was he any different from any other person who goes out and catches snakes?

he may of caught the first taipan that has been recorded in history, but was it worth his life if he didn't actually gain anything form this rather then being able to say he was the first to catch one?


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

actually, if you read down the story the snake produced something like 118mg of dry venom. which is a hell of a lot.

Also if you read more of it, it is actually not the first taipan recorded in history.
Or was it too much to read at once?


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

we'll just agree to disagree, no point dragging this on any further/


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

Dear Zoe. I did edited ackies coment and issued warning to him on PM.
I did this before your sarcastic post here. I demand apology.
I am finding your post insulting . Looks like you are trying to acuse me, to suport ackie in bad language and insults.
I am noticing that you like to argue with anybody who do not like your opinion lately. Please do controll your attitute against me. Many more people did not liked SW to call the great man Idiot.

I did edited the posts as soon as i red them zoe. We work here on site in our free time and sometimes things do not happen straight away.
You are only enjoying our site and that is why you should be more suportive to people who do all the work. We moderate as best and quick as we can.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

well it wasnt edited when i looked.



> I am noticing that you like to argue with anybody who do not like your opinion lately.



everybody likes to argue with somebody that doesnt have their opinion slatey, look at how SW was attacked on the first page.



> I am finding your post insulting



i am finding a lot of posts here insulting.



> You are only enjoying our site and that is why you should be more suportive to people who do all the work. We moderate as best and quick as we can.



i have never had a problem or complained about mods or this site slatey have i?


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Luke deserved it, he asked for it.
after all Luke, made horrible comments about someone who is awesome. I think he is jealous, knowing that people will never look up to him, in the same way.

Luke deserved what he got, I say good on you ackie, sam and sherm, good stuff Kevin, you are truly a hero mate.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

zoe said:


> is that why u didnt edit ackie's comment slatey?


I am still waiting for apology. I did edited his comment and isued warning.


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## Greg (Jul 31, 2004)

I don't give a toss either way about some bloke killed 50 years ago. 
What bothers me though is that this thread has turned into the usual singling out of someone who has voiced an opinion that differs to the majority.
It happens time and time again (usually to me but I've got big shoulders :wink: ). I think it's unfair to bag Luke just cause he thinks the bloke got what he got. I'm not saying I'm agreeing with Luke, I'm just standing up for his right to voice his opinion.




Gregory.


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## PilbaraPythons (Jul 31, 2004)

Although Kevin took an obvious risk in catching a wild Taipan with his bare hands my understanding was that he simply took advantage of the fact that the particular snake in question had a rat in its mouth. This made it easy to catch and would have significantly lowered his chance of recieving an immediate bite. I think most experienced snake catchers would have done the same. However what I do consider extremely dangerous is, holding on to a wild caught taipan in your hands for any more than a few minutes. Experience of tailing taipans in the wild and holding them in my hands has shown me that taipans exert a constant pulling back pressure with thier neck and are very strong in that area. This is some thing that Ram Chandra had always warned me about years ago. After a while they ease this pressure off but ever so slowly and you don't seem to notice it. When you least expect it they quickly exert this pressure again and if your not maintaining a strong grip you could easy have its head loose and of course recieve a bite. I guess I will never know for sure if this is how poor Kevin got bitten but I feel that it was highly likely.
My own experience in catching wild taipans is very limited and I have only ever caught four which is nothing compared to people like David Williams who do this very regularly and he has possiably caught more taipans than any body ever. It would very be interesting to hear some of David's experiences here.

Cheers Dave Mackintosh 
Pilbara Pythons


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

> after all Luke, made horrible comments about someone who is awesome.



just because YOU think he's awesome doesnt mean we all have to. or does it somehow??? :?



> I am still waiting for apology. I did edited his comment and isued warning.



slately i will apologise to you if you apologise to me for agreeing with people who attack someone for having a differing opinion...as greg said, thats ALL it was. arent you supposed to be a sort of arbitrator here? and try to cool the fights rather than add fuel to them? :?


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

Luke have different opinion and nothing is wrong with that.
He called kevin Idiot and many people do get upset. Nothing wrong with that.
Greg think that SW is right and kevin is Idiot. Nothing wrong with that. Greg changed his post and do not agreeing with SW about kevin to be idiot. Fine with me.
Some people agree and some do not. Nothing wrong wit that
Ackie attack another member here. I issued warning that is wrong.
Zoe's sarcastic comment about me not taking action, and I did take it(she just mist that) Not nice at all.
I did not received apology from ZOE I asked for and that is wrong.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

slatey, trust me, the comment was still there when i looked before posting what i did.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

I can agree with anything I like.I did not isued unfriendly sarcastic comment against you. I still demand apology Zoe.


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## Greg (Jul 31, 2004)

Slateman said:


> Greg think that SW is right and kevin is Idiot.





I never said I agreed with Luke. In fact what I said was that I couldn't give a toss about some bloke dieing 50 years ago.

Facts need to be adhered to here as often times things can be too easily twisted into fiction.




Greg. (Not in the firing line for a change) :shock:


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

> I did not isued unfriendly sarcastic comment against you.



well apologise to SW then


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

zoe said:


> slatey, trust me, the comment was still there when i looked before posting what i did.


Impossible 
It is recorded , Editing done 6 minutes before my post to topic.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

well i'm off to the optometrist then. i'll post piccies of the new frames .

oh and i saw the editing of my post and not ackies before you added to the thread i believe.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

no zoe you dont have to think he is awesome
People with no knowledge, or, those who are purely ignorant in the world of herps, will never be able to understand how important this snake was to science.
he is a hero, you dont agree? well thats fine by me, just dont publically slander someone who isnt even around to defend himself. you are HORRIBLE PEOPLE


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

Baritji said:


> Luke deserved it, he asked for it.
> after all Luke, made horrible comments about someone who is awesome. I think he is jealous, knowing that people will never look up to him, in the same way.
> 
> Luke deserved what he got, I say good on you ackie, sam and sherm, good stuff Kevin, you are truly a hero mate.



Debate the topic all you want, thats fine, but this above comment is uncalled for.


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## zoe (Jul 31, 2004)

> you are HORRIBLE PEOPLE




geez whats next? death threats? i'm sure you have bagged someone before that wasn't in the room :?


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

You are wrong zoe I just checked all the times. Last time I do asking for apology here. I did nothing wrong to be judged by you in that maner.


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## NoOne (Jul 31, 2004)

I must say Greg i'm with you, i don't give a rats about it, i still cant see why this is being argued.


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

......or why zoe has been deleted....don't you get a warning?


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## BROWNS (Jul 31, 2004)

zoe deleted?


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## NoOne (Jul 31, 2004)

WTF?


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## soulweaver (Jul 31, 2004)

she can't sign in thats all, and the rest of us seem to be able too okay.


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## BROWNS (Jul 31, 2004)

I wouldn't normally get involved in something like this but i read comments more worthy of being deleted for last night that's for sure.

Come back zoe.........


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## spottedpython (Jul 31, 2004)

thats just wrong zoe being deleted she is a nice person. 
everyone has a right to there say just because people don't agree this guy is a hero doesn't give the people the right to get on there back about. just like the steve irwin thread just cause i didn't like him they all started being mean. and now it is happening again with this thread. all i am saying why agrue over this when the person is dead. and don't bother writing back if your going to say something mean or to tell me off.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Are we all friends here? arn't we ment to learn and profit from knowing eachother. isn't that the purpose of sites like this. y is so much time and effort spent on arguing when there are so many things that "we" don't know. y not learn and then share what u've learn't?
This is y i think that "Interesting Weblinks and Stories" was created. Fuscus seems to be on the right track. y not follow his lead.


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## Alexahnder (Jul 31, 2004)

What on earth are you arguing about. Kevin Budden caught a taipan that helped in the development of taipan antivenom. When your're on the recieving end of a taipan i'm sure you'll thank some of the pioneering Australian herpetologists like Eric Worrel, Kevin Budden and Ram Chandra, David Flea, the Canns etc. If it wern't for people like these there would be many more deaths from snake bite every year. It is really arrogant to say things like that to people who like this who have devoted their whole lives to herpetology and their work has consequently saved many many lives.

Alexahnder


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

re;ZOE
I only ask her to say sorry to me about the comment against me regarding not deleting somebody's comment becaose I like what he is saying.
Acusation was not true and simple apology I asked 5 times from her did not come. Insted of it just smart comments which I am not interested in.
I did my job as admins properly and edited all posts as soon as I red them, before I started post in to this topic. 
I can't work and run this site with member who have such a low opinion about me, that simple sorry slatey is to hard for him.
This action of mine have nothing to do with this topic and peoples opinion on the meter.
I just think that I should have little of respect or all my involvment in running this site is pointles.


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## spottedpython (Jul 31, 2004)

haven't heard of all them people you just mentioned alexahnder.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Yeah man i can understand that.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Alex man might as well leave it alone now. its over.


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## Slateman (Jul 31, 2004)

Well said Alexahnder
I have same opinion on the subject.
If people feel differently about Kevin Budden, that is fine with me, but I think that the man should have respect from people devotet to herpetology. If he make some mistake in the past, he paid for it ultimate price, but I do not think he should be called idiot on our site.


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## bigguy (Jul 31, 2004)

I have just read this thread with interest. If it wasn't for people like Kevin Budden, Eric Worrel and Ken Slater we would not have a Taipan antivenom today. These were very brave men who had only one thought on their minds. To help save human lives. They knew the risks that if they made a mistake, they would die, but they took it anyway. Kevin unfortunately made a mistake and did pay. Taipans were considered rare in those days and only thought to be found around Cairns.

To call Kevin an idiot is just wrong and disrespectfull. These men were heros risking their lives to save others. There is no difference to what they did as to a fireman pulling someone from a burning house, or a livesaver dragging a swimmer from a shark attack. Would you call the fireman who died this week trying to save a childs life an idiot. I hope not.


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## Alexahnder (Jul 31, 2004)

thats a great analogy Bob. I find it really rude that people who risked and lost their life to taipans for the sole purpose of saving other peoples lives to be criticised and insulted. 

Alexahnder


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## africancichlidau (Jul 31, 2004)

Well said Bob, nicely put.


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## Sdaji (Jul 31, 2004)

> sorry to say but if people just left the bush alone and don't go in there then they most likely won't get bitten. on the farms you have no choice but people in towns and cities do the reptiles are best left alone not disturbed or picked up. it brings stress on them exspecialy being wild. and they say while bush walking or camping never go alone just in chase you get bitten or something dangerous happens. brodie if you got bittin you wouldn't be thought of a hero you will thought of an idoit who dicided to go alone and died because of it. yeah antivenom was produced by the snakes they needed the snakes venom to make the antivenom thats what i heard and read. no ones a hero i don't think no guy that goes out there and gets themselfs killed just for that is an idoit. maybe if people just stood still the snake would move on. and then maybe they should of just not go in the bush or where there are snakes and that is less chance of getting bitten.



If I left the bush alone (ie, never went there) I'd never be able to appreciate it. To say we shouldn't go there is absurd. Often I go by myself, and I'm always on the lookout for snakes. Perhaps one day I'll die from snake bite, perhaps it'll be a car accident, going by stats it'll most likely be heart disease or cancer. Whatever the cause, I know I'll die and it could be any day. If we are to attempt to completely eliminate all our risk taking we shouldn't be driving cars, drinking alcohol, eating new types of food, talking to new people or using high voltage electricity in our houses. Risk taking is unavoidable and some people wish to take bigger and/or more risks than others, that's their choice and if they die, it's only them who die (unless they risk others' lives, which I agree is deplorable). Today I handled deadly snakes, went skydiving, smoked a ciggarette and drove hundreds of kilometres in a car, any could have killed me and if I had died (or die tomorrow) I'd prefer people said I died living as I saw fit rather than calling me an idiot, I'd be content dying and I think our friend with the taipan was too. It's thanks to people like him who people like me who owe their lives to antivenom are alive.


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## africancichlidau (Jul 31, 2004)

> Perhaps one day I'll die from snake bite, perhaps it'll be a car accident, going by stats it'll most likely be heart disease or cancer.



Well said. In my case I hope it's from cigarrettes and whisky and wild wild women


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## bigguy (Jul 31, 2004)

Africa, I am getting worried about you again.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2004)

Well said guys,
I think its awesome what these guys did, and I'm glad that pretty much all members on this site agree with me. Nice to hear you comments too Bob, excellent analogy mate.
Brodie


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## NoOne (Jul 31, 2004)

So slatey you banned Zoe for not apoligising to you?


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## Sdaji (Jul 31, 2004)

Bring back Zoe!


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## africancichlidau (Jul 31, 2004)

> Africa, I am getting worried about you again.



AGAIN mate? My missus reckons it's easier to STAY worried


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## obee (Aug 1, 2004)

there is know doubt this man contributed to saving lives and for that we should all be indebted.but experience would tell you what is smart and what is not when it comes to a situation.in this particular case it was perhaps a lack experience or a choice made that wasn't to smart[poor bloke was only 20]not smart to end up dead,he had his whole life ahead of him imagine what he could have contributed further to saving lives if he had of done things differently[what a waist].i don't keep elapids but remove many on occasions.i am amazed at the amount of elapid keepers who tell me about the hits they have taken over the years like i should be impressed,if you cop a heap of hits you are obviously doing things wrong.does this make them a good herpetologist?or does it make them a bad one?[to be biten more than once].a good experienced herpetologist[in my eyes]isn't one who ends up dead.
slatey as far as respect i think that must be earnt.because you tell somebody they have to opolgise,they should.i am not here because of you slatey,but because of your good site, does that mean i have to respect you?you admit you have said some dicky things in the past and for that i have very little respect for you.thats just my opinion.i think this last deletion is an overkill.


obee


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## NoOne (Aug 1, 2004)

Very well said Obee, couldn't agree more.


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## Greg (Aug 1, 2004)

It's Jan's absolute right to be able to ban whom ever he wants to. It's his site. He pays for it out of his own pocket and he sets the rules. If you don't follow his rules then you have to pay the price.




:shock: 
Gregory.


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## obee (Aug 1, 2004)

i agree totally with you greg i just didn't see in the rules where you had to apologise because the administrator said you do,you can't have a differing opinion and you must respect.people get upset over the smallest things and nobody can tell someone who they are supposed to respect,like or what there opinion should be.i've seen a hell of a lot worst said on this site than what zoe said and those ppl are still here.if you are going to open your mouth in public and put yourself out there ppl are going to disagree and critize.the biggest disrespect i see is towards zoe.just my opinion.lets discuss the thread.


obee


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## Stevo (Aug 1, 2004)

I have only just read this post as i had all ready read the story on barefoot site and what a shock i got after reading thread. Arguments -no worries, swearing- was edited, but someone got deleted -"absolutely flabbergasted". Zoe might respect what u do for site slatey, but she doesnt have to respect your opinions does she? Does she have to apologise when she doesnt agree with anything u say? I love this site but zoe's deletion was imo not called for. What ever happened to thick skinned aussie debating?
I was just wondering when she was deleted were other moderators consulted or was it just your decision?
Cheers Stevo


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## ad (Aug 1, 2004)

Sw, your original comment was disrespectful and ignorant, regardless, you then continue to try and save face - pointlessly and with zero creedence to your arguement. You were a big enough person to realize this and posted accordingly. Zoe came to your defence without any intention of the thread or topic itself - more so for her 'rights' of opinion.
Yes you both have opinions - yes you are both able to have them - think how ridiculous they are before shouting them as loud as you can. if you made that statement in a room full of herps you would have still got shouted down and called an idiot as you were here. Yes you would still be able to voice your ' opinion' but if your opinion is so far from peer perception, be prepared to back it with substantial process - not defending your right to an opinion being the basis of your arguement.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

Dear Obee. Thank you for nice comment about me. 
I must ask you to read topic and find right reason why I suspended ZOE.
She accused me of something what I did not done at all. And That is why I demanded apology. Just for that one accusation.
I asked 5 times.
Regarding Respect, Maybe you do not respect me but many do. I do respect you same as the other member of this community and you do not hear me to saying accusation about people.
I did few wrong things in past and when They have been pointed to me I apologized. I Apologized to you obee regarding chondro thread, and if somebody else did simeler thing, I made them apologize to the other person.
You can ask Instar and some others about it.
I do demand same for me.
I know that many people do hate my guts here and I can live with them. If they do not cross the line and do not attack me for no reason.
ZOE did exactly that and failed to admit it after I explained to her that she is wrong. Not much I can do.
Obe I really do not like what you said about me, but I must live with it. Maybe I feel bit sad that after all hard work people think that about me, but it is your choice to dishonor me that way and have this opinion.
If you accuse me as ZOE of dishonesty with out any reason, I would delete you to. I would delete anybody who will treat me that way. It is just not right to use and enjoy site and talk to owner in this manner. I did not provoke her in any way.

And yes, it is against the forum rules what she did. But I was ready to ignored that for simple sorry, I make mistake slatey .Just apology from her to let me know that she understand that I did not let other to abuse forum rules because I like them .Instead of it I had more smart comments.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

Stevo said:


> I have only just read this post as i had all ready read the story on barefoot site and what a shock i got after reading thread. Arguments -no worries, swearing- was edited, but someone got deleted -"absolutely flabbergasted". Zoe might respect what u do for site slatey, but she doesnt have to respect your opinions does she? Does she have to apologise when she doesnt agree with anything u say? I love this site but zoe's deletion was imo not called for. What ever happened to thick skinned aussie debating?
> I was just wondering when she was deleted were other moderators consulted or was it just your decision?
> Cheers Stevo



Just one thing.
Zoe was not deleted for not agreeing with me.
Please red the thread before you acuse me of it.

You all have opinion and no intention to read what is this all about.
You are saying that you read this topic.
Where I am saying that she is deleted for her opinion.

*She was deleted for acusing me to be dishonast by fallowing my moderating duty with personall interest and refusing to apologise later.*


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## Stevo (Aug 1, 2004)

I did read post slatey and thats why i was flabbergasted. 
Zoe wrote: 
is that why u didnt edit ackie's comment slatey?

This is when u demanded apology and obviously Zoe didnt agree with your "opinion" that it warranted an apology.
Slateman wrote:
She was deleted for acusing me to be dishonast by fallowing my moderating duty with personall interest and refusing to apologise later. 


Where on earth she accused u of dishonest has got me beat.
Cheers Stevo


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## instar (Aug 1, 2004)

Crikey what a sad thread. Hero or idiot, is beyond the point, The poor bloke died trying to acheive something that would eventually benefit many, cudos for that! Its pretty distastful to be so disrespectful to someone who has died ,full stop. Privatly, i thought he must have had big ones to try it without equipment, but i never knew him or his reasoning so i kept it to myself.
Freedom of thought it a great thing, you can think what you like, when you like, where you like,
there is no need to always involve the mouth(or fingers), (lesson learnt by yours truley) Please try to be just a little bit tactful folks, life's too short, as Kevin Budden himself would tell you if he could. Fairwell K.B. (whoever you were)


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## craig23 (Aug 1, 2004)

MAN, i havent read any of this post until today. And I feel ashamed for all you people that have no respect for someone that was a pioneer for snake reseasrch and died in the name of it.
I havent read all of this thread cause its too long for me, but I get the idea.
I have to laugh at all the new people with a carpet python or two, that think they even have the right to make a ignorant comment. Back then, most people would think you were stupid if you wanted to go catch snakes, let along keep them, and use them for research. I have, and alot of others go herping for venomous snakes all the time by our selves.... and even if he went with others, what do you think they are going to do????????? there was no antivenom, thats the point.. you get bitten, you die! someone had to take the risk. and he did, for all of our sake. 
I think some of you people need to be taken down a "peg or two" as someone commented before. sitting back from your city home on the internet, commenting about a person, a snake, and a time you know nothing about at all. There is some seriously ignorant know it all people around.... just keep playing with the maccys, and childreni, and pretend that people only do things for self glorification.... hope you never need the antivenom people like kevin helped create. cause you dont deserve it!


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## NoOne (Aug 1, 2004)

Why would you feel ashamed of people?

I'm happy to admit i've never heard of him and i'm happy to admit that i don't give crap about it.
If that makes me a bad disrespectful person or a bad reptile keeper then thats what i am, it doesn't worry me.
He had nothing to do with my interest of reptiles, i admire other herpers who imo have done more than him.


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## craig23 (Aug 1, 2004)

dugadugabowbow, its fine never to have heard of him, and its fine not to care...no problem there at all. But its a different thing to read the artical and to start making remarks that he was an idiot, he thought he was god, and only did what he did for self glorification. And to add insult further, most of the people that were making these comments are all but new to the snake keeping hobby, and as far as im concerned just dont have any idea about anything. Just the comment themselves shows how much maturity they have. ZERO. And by insulting what someone else did, for the sake of science, antivenom, and research with such disrespect, makes me think they are just trying to make themselves feel better about there lack of achievment.

craig


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## soulweaver (Aug 1, 2004)

did everyone miss the part where i apologised for my offending anyone?

For all those who found the need to insult to get there point across, don't see how your really any different from me. You felt insulted for what i said about someone you see as a icon and you demand respect, but to insult me just shows you are just as capable of disrespect. Maybe i will never be anything in the herping world, thats fine i can live with that.

Slateman felt disrespected for what zo said to him, i think some of what has been said about me is far worse, so should i have the right to start banning people? or do i need to be site owner to get the same privileges first? :? 

This thread just proves that unless you agree with the majority there is no point offering a different opinion on this site.

Once again i will apologize if you didn't like what i said, but what has been said has been said now and its time to start moving on.

this is my last post on the topic.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

Stevo you would have to paste my post to which her comment refered. No point to discussed this
If you go back to the place where she posted this, you can clearly see the reason why she is asking me that.
Anyway, i will not answer any more on this subject. I know and she know what is the problem.
I can't work here to be underminded all the time in that maner. I would like to enjoy my self here same as you all do. If that will be not possible, I would have to stop it all. 
What is the point to run this site if people who join do talk to me like that. Specially young people. All this started only becaose I did not red this topic soon enough to edited bad language.
I do not need anybody to tell me that I did this on purpose becaose I do like Kevin Budden and SW do not. Who ewer do not like mods work or think that we do bad job can say this in different maner.
To write after I say that I suport wiew that Kevin is a good bloke and not Idiot comment as 
Zoe"Zoe wrote: 
is that why u didnt edit ackie's comment slatey?
It is highly disrespectfull and I will defend my self always. 
Specially when I edited the ackies post and isued to him warning before I expressed my opinion on this Topic.
Zoe only wanted to stir the trouble, and this time I refuse to cope that.

And to Obees post about not respecting me.
You are in title to think that way. But if you like to enjoy community I created and sponsor, I wish you do not act and write in disrespectfull way forward to me. You say that I do not earn your respect, That is fine, But I will not stand and receive abuse from anybody.
I understand that I did suported Bigguy view in chondro thread and that did not plesed you. Specially when I stated that I think more about Bigguy,s way how he argued about it. And I said that I think that he vin the argument. I apologized after to you about saying this in forum. I just say that time what I believed in and I still support bigguys theory.
But I never insulted you on personall level. I always shown respect to you as I do not know you enough to do atherwise.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

Soluweaver I did noticed that and I respect that.
I noticed that some of other members did compliment your change of wiew.
But you have to realize that if you call somebody Idiot, you will cope same from people who love him.
I tried to edit this thread best I could. It was extremely dificult.


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## spottedpython (Aug 1, 2004)

i don't know the guy and i don't really care about him either it is pointless agruing over a guy that has been dead for 54 years and people still talking about this reminds me of princess diana no one is willing to let go and move on. yes he might have done good but it is pointless to keep talking about it. there is alot more people out there that have done a hell alot more then this guy. i don't really care he doesn't have anything to do with my interest in reptiles either. sorry if i offended anyone.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

OH Spotted.
People usually talk about personalities from past. Some of the people did many brave things in the past to make live easier for me and you. They should newer to be forgotten.


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## craig23 (Aug 1, 2004)

well we dont talk about him everyday. the post came up. I havent seen a thread about him in ages. The whole thread wasnt even really about him, it was more about the fact that people can have such a strong, negative opinion about someone they dont even know from a bar of soap. Someone who clearly loved the same thing we all loved, in a time where you were ridiculed for it, and loose your life over it very easily. I repect him for his passion, effort and apparent selflesness.
As i said, i didnt read the whole thread cause it was so long. So i missed alot of appologies and all the heated stuff by the sounds of it. I really just wish people wouldnt be so fast to judge and be negative... Im NOT pointing fingers, it just is a common attitude on this site. Lately I think alot of people have made more enemies around here than friends, and isnt that the opposite of what this site is all about?

craig


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

I think we should delete whole thread and forget about it.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

i don't think thats the best idea because 4 future reference if someone wants to refer back to how and y zoe is gone then they can without having to bring the whole topic up again. and its also an example for other pplz.


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## Slateman (Aug 1, 2004)

All the reasning about Zoe is taking care about. Zoe have my E_mail and nobody else then Zoe can change the decision. So I do not see point for you liberated or anybody to bring anything up.
Only people who can do anything about it is Zoe or Admins. 
End of story and I am locking the topic now.


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