# Anery carpet python ???



## Perko (Jul 31, 2014)

Over the last few years there has been a few coastal's that have been called "possible anery's"
I was under the impression that snakes that lacked/reduced yellow pigment ( coastal's, jungles, ball pythons etc) were called axanthics and snakes lacking red pigment ( corns, boas etc) were called anery's .
A anery Bredli would make sense to me, but I'm at a loss over anery coastal's as I've never seen a adult with red pigment.
Anyone care to enlighten me?


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## lexy1 (Jul 31, 2014)

Hmmmm very interesting, good point perko..


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## junglepython2 (Jul 31, 2014)

I see where you are coming from and I suspect they are just using it as a marketing ploy, though without seeing the animal its a bit hard to know. 

Maybe the browns in the coastal are cleaned up to some degree?


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## Perko (Jul 31, 2014)

Regardless of seeing a particular animal, I'm yet to see a red adult coastal.
So how could a Coastal be anery? I'm not having a dig at anyone that claims to own one, just interested to know why it wouldn't be called a possible axanthic


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## Rogue5861 (Jul 31, 2014)

Perko have you every looked at a colour wheel? It doesnt have to be a red animal to have red in it, red yellow and blue are the base colours everything is made up of.

I may have over simplied it but thats how i understand colours, im not entirely sure if this is true for animals but it sounds logical too me... 


Rick


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## kitten_pheonix (Jul 31, 2014)

junglepython2 said:


> I see where you are coming from and I suspect they are just using it as a marketing ploy, though without seeing the animal its a bit hard to know.
> 
> Maybe the browns in the coastal are cleaned up to some degree?



Kind of like the "paradox hypo coastals" that I seen advertised the other day?


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## Colin (Jul 31, 2014)

Perko here's a copy and paste from vmsherp genetics that explains some of the terms and may help. I find it all a bit confusing myself.

[h=2]Xanthophores[/h]These chromatophores produce red and yellow pigments known as pteridines. These may vary in color from pure yellow to pure red, as well as intermediate shades. Xanthophores possessing a predominantly red coloration are referred to as erythrophores.

Xanthophores also retain yellow to reddish pigments contained in the diet in the form of carotenoids. Carotenoid retention continues throughout life, and intensity of pigmentation varies based on the quantity and types of carotenoids contained in the diet. Additionally, the animals' genetic predisposition towards and ability to store carotenoids will affect appearance.
​[h=2]Traits which affect the xanthophores:[/h]The reader is advised to remember that any trait affecting the xanthophores may also affect the erythrophores and vice versa, since the two are interrelated.

[h=3]Axanthism[/h]This genetic mutation slightly more difficult to comprehend. Red and yellow pigmentation is not synthesized by xanthophores. There is no red or yellow pigmentation present in these animals at all. Axanthic animals typically appear as black and white, with intermediate shades of gray.
However, in some axanthic specimens, yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids may be retained in the xanthophores. Additionally, certain iridophores may reflect light in such a manner as to appear yellow. Ordinarily, the iridophores are located in the same areas as the melanophores and are masked by the presence of the black pigment. This condition may cause dark areas to appear brownish, rather than a pure black. It is certain that multiple alleles are at work here, each uniquely influencing the appearance of the specimens involved.
[h=3]Hypoxanthism[/h]Yellow pigmentation is greatly reduced in the xanthophores. However, yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids may still be retained in the xanthophores. This accumulates with age and may be a major contributing factor in the overall appearance of some animals. It would be expected that red pigmentation would also be reduced in these animals. There are most likely several morphs of captive reptiles which are hypoxanthic masquerading around under other 'genetic labels'. Few herpetoculturists have access to the technology required to ascertain the exact nature of the mutations in today's collections. Fewer still would be willing to sacrifice specimens for examination! Myself included!
[h=3]Hyperxanthism[/h]Hyperxanthic animals develop intense amounts of yellow pigmentation as they grow, most likely as the result of extreme carotenoid retention. Occasionally, the extreme yellow coloration may be accentuated into an orange coloration where none would normally be present.
Additionally, they seem to have reduced amounts of red pigmentation present. This would most likely be malfunctioning of erythrophores, and perhaps this mutation would more properly be called anerythrism. Unfortunately, this term has already been applied to another mutation (see Anerythrism 'Type A'). Perhaps much of the confusion surrounding cornsnake genetics is simply the result of inappropriate naming of the earliest mutations, leading to confusion over the mechanics involved.

[h=2]Traits which affect the erythrophores:[/h][h=3]Anerythrism[/h]Red pigmentation is not synthesized by xanthophores. Yellow pigmentation in the xanthophores is still present. Additionally, yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids are still retained in the xanthophores. This accumulates with age and may be a major contributing factor in the overall appearance of some animals. Typically, anerythristic reptiles appear as black and white animals, with varying amounts of yellow present.
[h=3]Hypoerythrism[/h]Red pigmentation is greatly reduced in the xanthophores. Yellow pigmentation in the xanthophores is still present. Additionally, yellow pigments in the form of carotenoids are still retained in the xanthophores. This accumulates with age and may be a major contributing factor in the overall appearance of some animals.
[h=3]Hypererythrism[/h]The exact opposite of anerythrism, this trait causes excessive amounts of erythrophores to be present and enabled. The result is an animal with extensive red pigmentation.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 31, 2014)

Perko said:


> Regardless of seeing a particular animal, I'm yet to see a red adult coastal.
> So how could a Coastal be anery? I'm not having a dig at anyone that claims to own one, just interested to know why it wouldn't be called a possible axanthic



There are "red phase" coastals around, and while the term may be a bit of a stretch and they are not a pure red like a bredli I'm sure they still contain red pigments mixed with others. I'd post some links if it wasn't considered taboo here but a google search should reveal a few.


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## Perko (Jul 31, 2014)

I understand what you mean about the colour wheel, but I'm talking about naming a possible new coastal morph on visual appearance. Unless the snakes had red adult parents, why would you think the red has been removed from a snake that's grey? 




Rogue5861 said:


> Perko have you every looked at a colour wheel? It doesnt have to be a red animal to have red in it, red yellow and blue are the base colours everything is made up of.
> 
> I may have over simplied it but thats how i understand colours, im not entirely sure if this is true for animals but it sounds logical too me...
> 
> ...



- - - Updated - - -

The "red phase" refers to the neonate colour, not adult colour, I've hatched 100's of red hatchies. Not one adult showed any red.
A lot of the brooks line axanthics are hatched red, but they are still axanthic.



junglepython2 said:


> There are "red phase" coastals around, and while the term may be a bit of a stretch and they are not a pure red like a bredli I'm sure they still contain red pigments mixed with others. I'd post some links if it wasn't considered taboo here but a google search should reveal a few.


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## arevenant (Jul 31, 2014)

Just because there is no red pigmentation visible, does not mean it isn't there, it's simply held within another colour. Think of it as a base colour. The absence or red pigmentation affects the other colours, though not necessarily in a way that is obvious to the eye.
Easiest way to tell would be to put an anery or possible anery side by side with a non anery sib or similar sp and note your differences.


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## Perko (Jul 31, 2014)

How would you tell the difference between a anery & a axanthic in a coastal?



arevenant said:


> Just because there is no red pigmentation visible, does not mean it isn't there, it's simply held within another colour. Think of it as a base colour. The absence or red pigmentation affects the other colours, though not necessarily in a way that is obvious to the eye.
> Easiest way to tell would be to put an anery or possible anery side by side with a non anery sib or similar sp and note your differences.


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## arevenant (Jul 31, 2014)

ask it?


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## Gaboon (Jul 31, 2014)

You could always throw it over a Bredli.


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## saximus (Aug 1, 2014)

I've only ever seen one and it was in a recent video from some fairly famous Aussies. When they first said it I thought the same as you but the actual animal looked pretty yellow meaning you can't really call it axanthic. So maybe they are thinking/assuming/hoping it's anery not so much because of a "lack" of red but because of the amount of yellow remaining?


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## Perko (Aug 1, 2014)

Good point Sax, but there's plenty of axanthic's that show shades of yellow, Precision reptiles coastals and Rogers Jungles spring to mind. Can you send me a link to the video, id love to see it.
Sax just emailed me the link, Wow! impressive animal, good luck with that Troy & Den. Any chance of chiming in on this thread Troy?


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 1, 2014)

Have a look a K brothers new episode.
-Liam


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## Troy K. (Aug 2, 2014)

Sax pretty well summed it up. The animal that we've got for the next couple of years isn't proven out as an Anery yet but with the amount of yellow that it displays along with the lack of red does point to the animal being Anerythristic IMO. At the moment we aren't running the boy over a heap of females as we are more interested in trying to prove him out. For those of you that know us know that there is no marketing ploy in place as we already work with jags, zebs, zeb jags, caramels & caramel jags, sunglows, alb olives, bhps, gtps and more. We've also got Axanthics and Ghosts in the collection so we aren't trying to say that these Anerys are going to be bigger or better than the Axanthics, just trying to prove out a new mutation for the carpet guys and girls to play with and wanting to keep everybody up to date on our progress over the next couple of years. This animal also might be nothing more than one hell of a sexy carpet but either way it'll be a fun project. Gaboon said about crossing it over a Bredli, while I agree this would be one of the better ways it's still to taboo so if such a cross ever happened no findings could ever be made public. Hoping the people that seen the ep. enjoyed it and here's hoping for some pos. double hets this year.


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## champagne (Aug 2, 2014)

Troy K. said:


> Gaboon said about crossing it over a Bredli, while I agree this would be one of the better ways it's still to taboo so if such a cross ever happened no findings could ever be made public.



Why couldn't it be made public? Didn't you guys have a hypo caramel Bredli and a Bredli jag at the expo and also show them in one of your episodes? And you just said you work with sunglows... I think the cats out of the bag everyone has Morelia crosses. I personally think the only taboo thing is crossing with gtp, womas ect IMO no one sees a Bredli cross any different to a jungle coastal or coastal Darwin.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 3, 2014)

champagne said:


> I think the cats out of the bag everyone has Morelia crosses. I personally think the only taboo thing is crossing with gtp, womas ect IMO no one sees a Bredli cross any different to a jungle coastal or coastal Darwin.




Lots of keepers and breeders have and want nothing to do with crosses.You have set an arbitrary line with regard to gtp,woma etc crosses however lots of others wouldn't have their lines set so loosely.With regard to bredli crosses again lots of keepers/breeders also see plenty wrong with crossing them with other Morelia.


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## PythonLegs (Aug 3, 2014)

Everytime I see this thread, the grammar cop in me is itching to change anery to angry. Sooo frustrating..


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## champagne (Aug 3, 2014)

Ramsayi said:


> Lots of keepers and breeders have and want nothing to do with crosses.You have set an arbitrary line with regard to gtp,woma etc crosses however lots of others wouldn't have their lines set so loosely.With regard to bredli crosses again lots of keepers/breeders also see plenty wrong with crossing them with other Morelia.



I haven't set any lines, I was just stating that those types of cross are seen as taboo not Bredli crosses as most jag breeders have them. I personally dont have a problem with any of the cross including gtp, womas hybrids ect because they are all just pets not wildlife...


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## RedFox (Aug 3, 2014)

I find it a bit strange that M.Bredli x M.spilota being "taboo" has come into it especially as the K brothers currently have Bredli/Mixed carpet jags and sibs advertised as excess stock. 


I see there being a lot more potential with the anery gene in species and subspecies crosses than with pure coastals if it proves out. After all coastals only have so much red in them.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 3, 2014)

I was just responding to you writing that 'everyone has Morelia crosses' and 'no one sees a Bredli cross any different to a jungle coastal or coastal Darwin'.

You are entitled to have a personal opinion but please don't make out that you know what everyone else thinks as well.


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## Perko (Aug 3, 2014)

You're worried about grammar on a reptile forum? Get a life



PythonLegs said:


> Everytime I see this thread, the grammar cop in me is itching to change anery to angry. Sooo frustrating..


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## PythonLegs (Aug 3, 2014)

Perko said:


> You're worried about grammar on a reptile forum? Get a life


That's called a joke, champ. Get..nevermind.


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## champagne (Aug 26, 2014)

Gaboon said:


> You could always throw it over a Bredli.



and that's what they did...

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/moreli.../troy-kuligowski-from-co-dom-carpets-joins-us 53:35


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## Snow_Wolf_Black (Aug 27, 2014)

Hello, whilst talking about the genes, does anyone know of a good source(s) for a list of carpet and aspitides morphs with images? I have been having a look around, but haven't found much. I have found a couple of lists of proven coastal morphs, but my brain struggles to distinguish some pattern differences so I wanted to see if there was something with the images so I can see them side-by-side.


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## junglepython2 (Aug 27, 2014)

The complete carpet python book has quite a good section on morphs.


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