# Council just came to take my dog



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

We have three Jack Russells next door that constantly bark at my dog and hype him up. Well today the inevitable happened and the fence gave way and he killed one of their dogs. I have just surrendered him to council. I am so devastated, I feel like I have betrayed him but I really had no choice. RIP Kaeleb and my neighbors little dog, what a rotten day this is going to be. :cry:


----------



## MSD Reptiles (Oct 6, 2011)

So sorry to hear 

What sort of dog did you have? Its a shame that it was essentially provoked and leniency cant be granted.


----------



## SperO (Oct 6, 2011)

oh no im really sorry to hear that. That really sux


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

He was a Bull Arab x Bull Mastiff. At the end of the day, it was surrender him or go to court if the neighbors wanted to persue it.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

Can't you kennel him until the situation can be sorted out and the fence fixed to prevent it happening again?? It doesn't mean he's vicious, he's just doing what dogs do in circumstances like that. They just need to be kept apart.

Jamie


----------



## vampstorso (Oct 6, 2011)

funny people with little rat dogs never take responsibility for anything...
They let their dogs go and go and go, and growl their little heads off "cause it's cute"...then complain when something happens.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Too late Jamie the council has already taken him and as he is the big dog, it is most likely he broke the fence so the blame is on me and it is considered a dog attack.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

Hey... I've got two rat dogs (and a beautiful Staffy) and I'm entirely responsible for them. That's a broad statement which is entirely unhelpful at this time. KaotikJezta needs support and advice just now...

Jamie


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 6, 2011)

They aren't at fault. It was most likely unforseeen but Kaoticjezta is at fault because her dog broke the fence and went into another persons property. 

Rotten situation. Something very similar happened to me when i was house sitting for some family friends which resulted in one of their dogs being destroyed. I felt pretty terrible.



CoolDenturesBro said:


> funny people with little rat dogs never take responsibility for anything...
> They let their dogs go and go and go, and growl their little heads off "cause it's cute"...then complain when something happens.


----------



## Sel (Oct 6, 2011)

Omg.. go get him back.

Id go to court if i had to, no way id give him up..i dont think its your fault at all. 
Very sad.. go take him back!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

I have two little rat dogs as well, lol. But they don't bark their heads of all day. I'm such a mess right now and the neighbors are not home so I still have to tell them yet.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Too late Jamie the council has already taken him and as he is the big dog, it is most likely he broke the fence so the blame is on me and it is considered a dog attack.



Is there nothing you can do to stall for time? Seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to deal with it so swiftly.

Jamie


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

No Jamie, I had the choice of a) surrender straight away b) surrendere and go to court and pay for legal fees and kennelling c) ask the neighbors what they wanted to do and risk having dangerous dog charges layed.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

What are your neighbours like? If they understand dogs they won't 'blame' you - it's the nature of the beasts. It's just as much the neighbour's resonsibility to ensure a dividing fence is secure. They'll be upset naturally, but they may be understanding and not take the matter further.

There was something on TV last night about a similar incident - two JRs killed by ridgebacks which got through a dividing fence. The interviewed (and devastated) JR owners weren't apportioning blame and understod that it's just what happens when infrastructure fails...

Jamie


----------



## Sel (Oct 6, 2011)

Depends how much you love your dog..
I wouldnt care about charges


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

Sel said:


> Depends how much you love your dog..
> I wouldnt care about charges



That's not helpful either...

Jamie


----------



## elle0318 (Oct 6, 2011)

im so sorry to hear this, its really not fair sometimes, my friend had the most beautiful friendly big dog ever (actually my dogs brother) and he kept breaking the fence and killing sheep, she even tied him up with a big chain n he broke it, she had to surrender him or they were going to come take him away. its so unfair, i hope you feel better in time, id be devasted


----------



## brisbaneboy (Oct 6, 2011)

i have a staffy and a staffy x one day a cat from next door entered my yard and was killed by the staffy she is now labeled a dangerous dog and i had to do so many things to my house otherwise i couldn't keep her i wouldnt give up on it is there nothing u can do


----------



## Sel (Oct 6, 2011)

Well, i didnt mean it to sound like she doesnt love her dog, she obviously does or she wouldnt be here.. i just dont get how you can just surrender your pet so fast.


----------



## traceylee (Oct 6, 2011)

What a horrible situation for you 
I am sorry you are having to go through this.
How sickening the thought must be for you; knowing you still have to inform the neighbours  I hope they will be understanding of the situation. 
My thoughts are with you.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

I surrendered my dog because a) they have other dogs meaning it could happen again, b) Victorias new dogs laws mean if I am charged I can be jailed for it. It was by no means an easy decision to make and I still don't know if I did the right thing but it is done and I have to live with it. Pleus when the council came he said my dog looked like it had pitbull in it which means if they want to persue that and make an exapmle of the first person charged since the new laws I don't have much hope of either keeping the dog or not getting jail time.


----------



## prettypython (Oct 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear, your a very strong person making the deccision yo did. May peace be with your dog and your neighbours.


----------



## Sel (Oct 6, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> I surrendered my dog because a) they have other dogs meaning it could happen again, b) Victorias new dogs laws mean if I am charged I can be jailed for it. It was by no means an easy decision to make and I still don't know if I did the right thing but it is done and I have to live with it. Pleus when the council came he said my dog looked like it had pitbull in it which means if they want to persue that and make an exapmle of the first person charged since the new laws I don't have much hope of either keeping the dog or not getting jail time.



Fair enough. and im sorry you had to

When i was living with my parents we had a Doberman, she was soo beautiful and i loved her so much.. 
She barked alot at night, and sometimes during the day..and neighbours complained.
I had left home, and my parents were made to surrender her to council..or find another home. I had no idea about it..and didnt find out until weeks later and i was devastated. I could have stopped it..but they didnt tell me, 
Your sitch is different, because your dog killed another.. but still, i feel your pain and im sorry.


----------



## Suenstu (Oct 6, 2011)

I really feel for you, what an absolutely dreadful thing to happen. I can imagine how devastated you must feel.
You really are between a rock and a hard place, and I think in many many ways its admirable how you've dealt with it under the circumstances.
Like many others here that will read your thread, I truly wish there was something I could do to help. All I can really do is offer a suggestion to other folks - Please think before you go typing anything hyper critical on this thread. Walk a mile in her shoes.


----------



## JS974 (Oct 6, 2011)

In another similar story (wife just rang me) our neighbors dog just killed our Siamese cat. 

Looking forward to going home and dealing with the fallout from this........

He's always been an inside cat but he gets 5 min to wonder the yard when she hangs out the washing.


----------



## shea_and_ruby (Oct 6, 2011)

so sorry to hear about your situation


----------



## JS974 (Oct 6, 2011)

Yep kids where mighty attached to him. Not good at all to every lose a pet no matter what it is.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

JS974 said:


> In another similar story (wife just rang me) our neighbors dog just killed our Siamese cat.
> 
> Looking forward to going home and dealing with the fallout from this........
> 
> He's always been an inside cat but he gets 5 min to wonder the yard when she hangs out the washing.


So sorry, so devastating, I am dreading telling my neighbours, I know how much they love their dogs.


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 6, 2011)

so sad,...what a terrible thing to have happened.


----------



## Kurto (Oct 6, 2011)

Bureaucracy is always a sticky situation when it comes to neighbors and dogs. If your dog breaks through the fence and kills another the council will take it very rapidly.

Though if your neighbors dogs are constantly troubling action may not even be taken. Especially if you live in the hawkesbury and have to deal with lazy ***, middle aged, simpleton morons from the animal shelter.


----------



## grimbeny (Oct 6, 2011)

Sad times for all involved. I think you have now done the right thing. If this was a recuring problem it could have been prevented by ensuring the fence was better to start with but you cant turn back time. Im glad it was just the neighbours dog though, if it was their kids it would have been a very sad issue indeed.


----------



## nonamesleft (Oct 6, 2011)

If its just recently happened and the neighbours are not home yet, how did the council get involved so quick? did you call them?


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> Sad times for all involved. I think you have now done the right thing. If this was a recuring problem it could have been prevented by ensuring the fence was better to start with but you cant turn back time. Im glad it was just the neighbours dog though, if it was their kids it would have been a very sad issue indeed.


The fence was almost new, and it would not have happened with kids, he is a useless guard dog, people can just walk into the back yard and he'll lick them. It was definitely tricky as the actual death occurred on our property so whether or not my dog was in the wrong is open to question as we don't know which one broke the fence or whether the dog entered our property or was pulled onto our property. Also, there kids, they don't have any by the way, would not have been yapping and growling constantly through the fence so that is a completely different and hypothetical situation.



nonamesleft said:


> If its just recently happened and the neighbours are not home yet, how did the council get involved so quick? did you call them?


Yes I called them, I don't know if that was the right thing to do or not now. I am so conflicted by the whole thing. I have rung the ranger back to see if I can pursue option b instead. I know my dog is still alive as he has not returned to the shelter yet so we will have to see what happens.


----------



## grimbeny (Oct 6, 2011)

I know when I was a kid I did all kinds of stupid things and it is completely feasible that a 5 or 6 year old would yell and throw things at a neighbours dog to rile it up. But yes a hypothetical which fortunately will not happen now.


----------



## Justdragons (Oct 6, 2011)

I feel so so bad for you right now but i think you made the right choice. I have a largish staffy x ridgeback whom i adore so so much, but if she was to ever turn on someone or kill another animal, as hard as it would be and it would tear me up i would have the same thing done. Sounds like your day will get worse before it gets better but it will get better and if you had taken the court option this issue would be in your life everyday for some time and still the same possible out come. 
Remember you have umpdinks of support here  goodluck and all the best.


----------



## Grogshla (Oct 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear of this heartache.
Please try and stay positive and we are all here if you need support


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

They have a little kid on the other side and she constantly called him and he ignored her. He had no problem with children or adults, just dogs. Anyway, the ranger just came back and said that because of the state I was in when I rang and the fact that the neighbours have not been notified yet, he has a repreive until Monday morning. Then it is either put down, go to court and have him declared dangerous depending on the neighbours or release back to me.

Thanks for the support everyone, I really need it. Funny thing is, I think the neighbours are away and who ever is looking after there dogs brings their dog with them which is the dog that started all the barking and growling at the fence in the first place. Those dogs are usually inside dogs and only out with supervision and the neighbour has met my dog and talks to him over the fence. I think he is going to be pretty angry his dogs were left to go crazy and do what they wanted which led to this tragedy.


----------



## Snake_Whisperer (Oct 6, 2011)

Truly feel for you K. I hope this situation works outpositively for you.

Cheers,
A.


----------



## Smithers (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh Crap  So sorry to hear darl. Hope things get easier soon for you. I have had to put a family member down and re home another before, (dog btw) the hardest thing I have done so feel you pain and here if you need.


----------



## Vixen (Oct 6, 2011)

I would fight it as hard as I can, even if he is declared a dangerous dog - at least you will still have him with you. It would just mean you need to errect a more sturdy fence, have signs displayed and muzzle him in public if I believe?

It sounds like a terrible, unfortunate situation for both parties, I hope it works out ok. But it does sound like he was provoked more than usual with the new dog that was starting trouble, and it's not as if he has something against kids or people.


----------



## starr9 (Oct 6, 2011)

Oh im so sorry to here this. Im glad you rang and decided to try for op B. Good luck and I hope that they understand and nothing more happens.


----------



## CHONDROS (Oct 6, 2011)

A mate of mine had this happen to him all he had to do was pay a fine $800 and have his dog desexed


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

I have talked to a dog trainer today and he has advised that a) I take one of my small dogs outside and see if the dogs next door do the same thing and video tape it, b) get a letter from him (and he said he will even come to court if he has to) stating the dog was provoked and I have arranged retraining with him. He believes the attack was incited by the neighbours dogs and the fact that it happened on my property all goes in my favour. I really hope the neighbours are big enough dog lovers that they understand though, the prospect of court is not pleasant. If he is declared dangerous I need a pen with a concrete floor to keep him in but the trainer said they can't legally stop me having him in the house with me.


----------



## Mace699 (Oct 6, 2011)

We had our huskies get nextdoor and kill a few chickens completley different scenario but all the coucil cared about was that the dogs were registered and the yard was secure after they broke through we fixed it up didnt even get a fine or anything from the council we had to reimburse the neighbour for his chickens the entire ordeal cost us about $1300 as they were show quality chickens. although he had more than he was allowed on the proprty plus a rooster we decided to leave well enough alone. but i would get your dog back and offer to pay the family that have lost there dog and tell the council you and the neighbours will sort it out yourself. you may end up with the same result but at least you have then tried everything you can. comsierations to you and your neighbours. its hearbreaking to hear Jezta.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Mace699 said:


> We had our huskies get nextdoor and kill a few chickens completley different scenario but all the coucil cared about was that the dogs were registered and the yard was secure after they broke through we fixed it up didnt even get a fine or anything from the council we had to reimburse the neighbour for his chickens the entire ordeal cost us about $1300 as they were show quality chickens. although he had more than he was allowed on the proprty plus a rooster we decided to leave well enough alone. but i would get your dog back and offer to pay the family that have lost there dog and tell the council you and the neighbours will sort it out yourself. you may end up with the same result but at least you have then tried everything you can. comsierations to you and your neighbours. its hearbreaking to hear Jezta.



There's the rub, they wont give him back now without the neighbours saying it is ok. The lesson here is don't make rash decisions when not in the right mental state to think properly.


----------



## Mace699 (Oct 6, 2011)

My parents also had pomeranians when i was a child on the odd occasion the neighbours rottweilers would pull a dog through the fence or dig under and get one. mum and dad where understandably destraught but also didnt want to see the other dogs destroyed either and never got the council involved i hope for your dogs sake its owners are much like my parents and will go down the same road would be devastating to see two dogs die over an accident where nobody but nature is at fault. dogs are naturally teritorial and have a pack mentality. so he would have seen the other dogs as competition in one form or another. i would suggest if the neighbours are willing socialise the dog with the neighbours remaining dogs and that should cut out barking and any aggression he may have towards them if they get through in the future. it can be trrained out of him so dont give up hope yet.


----------



## kawasakirider (Oct 6, 2011)

So glad there is a chance you can keep him. I was going to write my sympathies (which I still have to offer obviously), but now I just want you to hang in there and tough it out for yours and your dogs sake. Hopefully both dogs don't have to die because of a stupid mistake. I hope your neighbours do the right thing, and I think it's great that the professional will be willing to go to court with you if they don't. I'm thinking of you and your dog, KJ.


----------



## marcmarc (Oct 6, 2011)

Can you try to explain your fragile state at the time, you weren't in the right frame of mind to make such a decision. It doesn't seem that the council have taken that into consideration at all. Especially when the neighbour's dog was killed on your property, and your dog wasn't invading your neighbour's yard.
All the best anyways.


----------



## Mace699 (Oct 6, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> There's the rub, they wont give him back now without the neighbours saying it is ok. The lesson here is don't make rash decisions when not in the right mental state to think properly.


 call your neighbours asap if you have their number i'm so sorry to hear this for you and your neighbour. If you have a good relationship with them although they will be devestated they should hopefully be willing to deal with it without getting council involved


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

I don't have their number, we speak occasionally but I don't really know them.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> There's the rub, they wont give him back now without the neighbours saying it is ok. The lesson here is don't make rash decisions when not in the right mental state to think properly.



There's a lesson there K, but the ranger should have counselled you rather than acting as he did. Breathing space and time to get things into perspective (difficult I know, but time is a great helper here) are enormously important in any decisions you have to make right now. If you were able to keep the dogs separate for the next few days, and assess what needed to be done to make a permanent fix, it seems more sensible to me. You'll always feel terrible about what has happened, the important thing is to make sure it can never happen again.

The ranger is right out of order in saying the dog looks like it may have "pit bull" in it - it's very subjective comment and he wouldn't ever be able to prove it. It's just feeding the stupid hysteria that's all around us at the moment. 

I hope some sense prevails and you & your dog get the support you need to get through this...

Jamie


----------



## Cockney_Red (Oct 6, 2011)

Jack Russels are the bane of anyone with a big dog, many moons ago back in Surrey, in the Motherland, I was walking my Rottie x Newfy, in the local park, while talking to a lady walking her dog, when this lady pointed at a Jack that was hurtling toward us, and said oh no, be careful, that dog has killed several other dogs over here! This poxy rat, just launched at Barnie's throat, and was shaking for all it was worth, making no headway with my 12stone dogs, thick fur.....before i could kick them apart, Barny just shook him off, grabbed him, and broke his back, in the blink of an eye....then i had the Jacks female owner on my back screaming, that my dangerous dog should be on a lead....Barny never started a fight in his life, but always finished them!
No fan of little fight starters....my sympathies are with you....


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 6, 2011)

I spent most of my life with Dobes, and acquired a stray Jack when she wandered in and wouldn't leave. She was an amazing little dog. I have two now, but I have to say I agree with C_R, they are often too big for their boots. They have huge personalities, but are way too confident for their own good sometimes. Unsupervised, they can cause trouble because they never give up...

Jamie


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks for the support guys. The neighbours still are not home. I am not holdiong out too much hope of them being understanding as they have had the dog in question since it was born. The thing is they are now also going to get fined by the council for having unregistered dogs.


----------



## pharskie (Oct 6, 2011)

this is the sort of mentality that is so sad when it comes to dogs in the modern day world. Was there any mention that your neighbours have done nothing to stop their dogs barking at the fence displaying an aggressive pack mentality? I understand that once "it" happens it cant be changed, but its just sad that because of the lack of effort from other dog owners that it has come to this for you. im so sorry to hear it.

im not sure also on how the laws differ in victoris now but here in nsw, any local council has to gove you 28 days writen notice befor they can take your dog off your property. Just something to look up or maybe ask someone in the know.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

yeah pharskie, I told the ranger they bark and growl constantly at the fence.


----------



## DexterFan (Oct 6, 2011)

*Sorry to read about your dog...*

It's sad what has happened with your dog, and as a big dog (G. Shepherd) owner I can imagine how you feel. I was glad to read that nothing is being done til Monday as that gives you and the neighbours time to settle down and think about the situation rationally, hopefully you've got decent neighbours. Good luck with it all.


----------



## pharskie (Oct 6, 2011)

have you thought about speaking to the neighbours and perhaps if you repair the fence and promis to keep your fella on a run. Although i know its not helpful at all, i have a mate who had the same problem a few years back with some jacks x malteese things, all he did was stop filling in the holes from where they where theying to dig under and attack his 35kg Mastiff x, lesson to the story, dogs that dont want to tow the line get "fixed" one way or another eventually.

what was the rangers responce?


----------



## marcmarc (Oct 6, 2011)

The Ranger saying that your dog "looked" like it had pitbull in it is really doesn't help, and should have been more understanding given the situation. Especially as you have done everything you are obligated to do. Why punish the people that do the right thing and not the other way around? 
You really should have been given more of an opportunity to have a think before surrendering your dog, I would be calling everyone possible in council informing them of your situation. 
Get some legal advice, and quickly!


----------



## kawasakirider (Oct 6, 2011)

If you decide/have to go to court to fight for your dog, why not see if APS members would donate a few bucks for the court fees. I'd throw in a few bucks if it means a dog could be saved.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

The ranger really goaded me into giving him up which is ironic, because when I first rang the council they were going to seize the neigbours remaining dog/s as they could still access my property and I told them not to as I had my dog locked in the laundry. He looked t the fence and said it was most likely my dog broke the paling but as no-one witnessed the attack it cannot be said with any certainty whether my dog pulled the dog through or the dog came through on it's own. Then he came back and said I had until Monday to work it out with the neighbors.


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 6, 2011)

i really hope you get him back,...

even if it means rocking up with a solicitor to get the whole ordeal put on hold fro longer if they dont give him back on monday,..

years ago my silky terror was attacked by a red cattle, (they had issues, always growled at each other when being walked etc) we had the option to get the cattle put down but wouldnt have dreamed of it, hopefully ur neighbours will know putting ur dog down isnt the right thing to do,...


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks Chris, my biggest concern now is whether the neighbours are going to return on time as there is no sign of them as yet.


----------



## D.E.L.E.T.E (Oct 6, 2011)

i have a bull mastiff he has attacked 3 dogs in the 2 years i have had him (saved from the pound) luckly i was their to stop him doing to much damage and just paid their vet bill but what happened to you was very unlucky sorry to hear he had to be taken away


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 6, 2011)

isnt it up to the neighbours whether or not to put him down?

how can they go ahead with it if the neighbours arent back to make the decision,...?

man i feel so terrible for you.


----------



## kawasakirider (Oct 6, 2011)

1st-stoney said:


> i have a bull mastiff he has attacked 3 dogs in the 2 years i have had him (saved from the pound) luckly i was their to stop him doing to much damage and just paid their vet bill but what happened to you was very unlucky sorry to hear he had to be taken away



How does your dog come to attack 3 different dogs in 2 years if you have him on a lead?????


----------



## bigi (Oct 6, 2011)

i am very sorry for you and everyone concerned including the dogs, i am sure it is upsetting
however you must understand it has attacked another dog and killed it.
This is not to say it will not happen again and if a person gets involved to seperate them they too could be injured
i do not like your chances considering the new laws, they will probably use it as a test case and/or example for further cases
Unfortunately some dogs do not socialise to the extent we would like them too and in these circumstances we need to take action to prevent further instances

goodluck with everything


----------



## Defective (Oct 6, 2011)

to accuse you're dog of 'looking like he has pitbull in him' all they need to do is a DNA test. as for the fence is it leaning in any direction, any signs of tampering like scratch marks around posts no where near where dogs scratch and see, if you can prove some how that the neighbours have tampered with the fence, take photos etc, anything out of the ordinary,

just trying to give 'outside the square' ideas, if provoked all dogs will attack...even pugs do, i've seen it.


----------



## slim6y (Oct 6, 2011)

I really hope you do get your dog back and that this gets sorted out in a fair and logical manner...

(I had written other stuff here about fencing laws in Australia, but I'm actually not sure it will be helpful) - so good luck.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Defective said:


> to accuse you're dog of 'looking like he has pitbull in him' all they need to do is a DNA test. as for the fence is it leaning in any direction, any signs of tampering like scratch marks around posts no where near where dogs scratch and see, if you can prove some how that the neighbours have tampered with the fence, take photos etc, anything out of the ordinary,
> 
> just trying to give 'outside the square' ideas, if provoked all dogs will attack...even pugs do, i've seen it.


If they use the DNA test that wont help as he is Bull Arab x therefore common ancestors will show up in the test, the exact reason DNA testing doesn't work. 

UPDATE: One of the neighbours is home and was very understanding but he has to speak to the other one. He said they had no idea their dogs were causing such a ruckus and that he understands these things happen, he is going to come see me when the other neighbour and he discuss it.

Well neighbour number two just came over and is understandably devastated and angry and has told me he can't think straight at the moment. He said he loves my dog but can't guarantee it won't happen again. I told him I was going to pay for metal security dog fencing and about the barking and growling and incitement in as subtle and unaccusing way as possible and he said he just wanted to bury his dog and he would talk to me after. I don't blame him, his dogs may have incited it but at the end of the day, my dog killed his dog so he is within his rights to want time to consider it. Anyway, will update when I know something new.



waruikazi said:


> They aren't at fault. It was most likely unforseeen but Kaoticjezta is at fault because her dog broke the fence and went into another persons property.
> 
> Rotten situation. Something very similar happened to me when i was house sitting for some family friends which resulted in one of their dogs being destroyed. I felt pretty terrible.


Never noticed this before but their dog was killed on my property, my dog never left the yard.


----------



## euphorion (Oct 6, 2011)

My thoughts are with you, so very sorry to hear this.


----------



## slim6y (Oct 6, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Never noticed this before but their dog was killed on my property, my dog never left the yard.



Legally that does change things... And then back come the fencing laws... What you said earlier though sounds positive - work that avenue first


----------



## DeadCricket (Oct 6, 2011)

Its actually little dogs that should be considered dangerous. More people go to hospital every year with injuries from a small dog than big dogs.


----------



## cement (Oct 6, 2011)

Yeah mate if it happened on your property you are in the clear. Don't give away your dog because you feel guilty. 

I understand the feelings you have because of the shock of the incident, and your "overwillingness' to do the right thing to make things as right as possible, but for right now... organize a solicitor, or family, friend, even the cops, because that ranger is going to be a problem and he needs to be sorted pronto. You need some sound advice.

My dog killed a yappy poodle one day after weeks of being constantly yapped at (which he ignored, until one day he just snapped and killed it) so I understand the shock at the time of the incident. shock and adrenaline make us do things which we think are right but can sometimes be just a knee jerk reaction to trying to make the situation disappear.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Update: Spoken to both the neighbours and they have decided the last thing they want is for my dog to be killed. And we discovered that one of the dogs, the one that started the barking and growling, was not even their dog, just some random that's been jumping the back fence to play with their dogs. So that really sucks. We've had Kaeleb since last August and he has never barked at their dogs or vise versa until the last couple of weeks when this dog hyped everything up. The guy said his decision was swayed in my favour because I did the right thing and didn't try to lie to them or anything and had the guts too tell them face to face. The little dog was 11 years old so he was understandably heart broken. We are going to work together to get the fences dog proofed with metal fencing. He also said that he will tell council how he talks to Kaeleb over the fence and thinks he is a lovely dog. So now, fingers crossed that he didn't do anything stupid at the pound out of fear or the council doesn't try to slap the pitbull mix rubbish on him.



slim6y said:


> Legally that does change things... And then back come the fencing laws... What you said earlier though sounds positive - work that avenue first



Yes, the fence was there boundary fence and the palings were so flimsy but both of us rent so not much we could do about that. It was a newish fence but I couldn't belive how weak the palings were when I checked out the broken one.


----------



## -Peter (Oct 6, 2011)

Glad its working out, you might want to try some socializing with your dog and the neighbour's. It will be a fair bit of work but it will change the dynamic between them.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Yes, will talk that over with the trainer when I speak to him.


----------



## Jacquie (Oct 6, 2011)

I don't think I am going to be able to sleep until I hear that your dog is safe again in your backyard!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Tell me about it, I have barely eaten and I missed my uni application cut-off, been nauseous all day.


----------



## Jacquie (Oct 6, 2011)

We have 2 foxies at our back fence that bark whenever you come into the backyard. They never stop and drive me crazy. Our dog loves other dogs but has taken exception to one of their dogs and they fight like crazy under a little gap that they have both dug. It's the only time I ever hear my dog angry. I keep thinking I need to fix that because even if their dog started it, I have an english bull terrier and I know who will get the blame if they make that gap big enough to get through. I will be going out first thing in the morning and fixing that hole and putting a concrete slab over the whole area.


----------



## matt74 (Oct 6, 2011)

Sounds like you and your best friend might hopefully be in the clear. 

When you say "metal fence" what are you referring to?, a colorbond fence or some crazy solid metal contraption?. I dont know, I'd honestly believe a fresh timber pailing fence would be stronger than colorbond. If I was forced to run and throw myself at one or the other, I think I'd chose colorbond!. And regarding the timber fence pailings, bunnings sell these for bugger all, the missus and I replaced all the rotten, flimsy ones on our fence when we moved into the house we bought last year. Turned out just like new.

Our neighbor has a JR, we have a JR x pug, a tenterfield terrior and got a mini foxie recently. The dogs used to bark and growl at each other through the rotten fence but with fresh pailings there's no gaps and a solid structure that the dogs can't see each other through. Still the odd "bark-off" or growl but nothing like it was when half the pailings were rotten and the fence had little gaps all over it.
Like I said, bunnings sell replacement pailings cheap and they are simple to replace especially if you can get hold of a nail gun.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

We had fresh palings with no gaps, it was more a case of once the random dog got into there yard and started the "game" it didn't matter that they couldn't see each other. I was talking about the stuff they use for dangerous dog yards but used as a fence as well as the palings so there is essentially a double barrier and then something like cement sleepers to stop digging under, my dog has never dug under anything but better safe than sorry. And he didn't throw himself at the fence, it was just one paling that snapped down the bottom but a big enough hole for their dog.


----------



## marcmarc (Oct 6, 2011)

I am glad your neighbours are reasonable people, it could have so gone the other way. It is awesome it turned out ok in the end. 
I would still contemplate complaining to your council about your dealings with them in regards to this, it sounds like you were treated very poorly in a very stressful situation.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

He was fully playing the "I love dogs" act as well, he then proceeded to ask if I wanted to report my neighbours for their dogs barking, I couldn't believe it. I told him, my dog just killed their dog, I don't want to report them for anything. He told me I was very brave and made the right decision, I then changed my mind and when he came back out he tried to insinuate my dog had acted viciously when he dragged it half choking into the crate. My dog was getting patted by him and wagging his tail until we tried to put him in the crate, he then used the stick and my dog freaked, but not growling still, he was choking and once in the crate he was just sad and bewildered. But despite his bad attittude at the time still gave him a reprieve until Monday morning.


----------



## marcmarc (Oct 6, 2011)

I hate their style but "Today Tonight" love this kind of story. 

Anyways, formal complaint to Council in the least as it might stop the same thing happening to someone else in the future. People like that should not have positions like that as well. Absolute bastard!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 6, 2011)

Unfortunately marcmarc with the current hysteria about dangerous dogs they would probably twist it all around so I look like the bad guy.


----------



## thelionking (Oct 7, 2011)

Sel said:


> Depends how much you love your dog..
> I wouldnt care about charges


That's a really mean thing to say. Sometimes it depends on how responsible you are, and kaotikjetza was obviously responsible enough to realize that her dog was a dangerous dog, no matter how much she loved him, and therefore needed to be able to let go of him. It is a considerate thing to do, and you have to be very strong to do it.
It does not depend how much you love your dog.

Anyway, Kaotikjetza, I wish you luck with your dog, you have certainly done the right thing. I know I would never have the strength to call the council and give up my dog. You are certainly brave. Good luck


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> If you decide/have to go to court to fight for your dog, why not see if APS members would donate a few bucks for the court fees. I'd throw in a few bucks if it means a dog could be saved.


Thanks, thats so wonderful, I never read it before.

I'd just like to say thank you to all of you that have supported me through this so far. If it wasn't for APS members I would not have changed my mind and my dog would be dead. It means a lot that people who are for the most part strangers can care so much about people and animals they don't know. I have had a gut wrenching day and I don't think I would have gotten through it nearly as well without people to talk to about it.


----------



## miley_take (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm so glad this has been resolved! I've been on the edge of my seat all night! That's awesome news


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 7, 2011)

Hmmm... you had a late night KJ! The situation is looking better today it seems, so I hope common sense prevails and a reasonable outcome can be salvaged from the events of yesterday. I'm very glad that you decided on positive action - I'd be making sure as early as possible today that your dog is OK - that no 'bureaucratic mixup' leads to the 'accidental' destruction of your dog. Are your neighbours going to be proactive with the council today, given it's Friday and you only have the weekend until Monday?

Definitely DO NOT do anything which may be seen to be critical of the ranger until you have your dog back with you - it will only complicate what is already a very emotional issue, and you don't want to antagonise him.

Please get an assurance from the pound that your dog is OK (go and see him for yourself if you can), and go from there.

Jamie


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 7, 2011)

sounding very promising,...like Jamie said, get right onto them first thing this morning so theres no 'accidents'.

so glad ur neighbours are reasonable people!

and i'll be sooo super happy once u have ur dog back at home!!
(dont forget pics of the reunion!!)


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 7, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Never noticed this before but their dog was killed on my property, my dog never left the yard.



That is good to hear. Sounds like things are on the up, i hope they keep getting better!


----------



## pharskie (Oct 7, 2011)

defs go down to the pound today to give him some treats and perhaps a blanket from home with the smell of yourself on it so he has something to help keep him calm and as happy as possible in thats crappy place. PLus to make sure he is ok, i have seen the extent of the scum like behaviour that our local rangers like to conduct, dogs "accidently" running into a fence when scared, or those "savage monsters" that they wrestle with untill the dog frets and wants to get away from the moron trying to dominate him. I am almost certain that one of the job needs to be a ranger is a small penis and a massive ego.


----------



## Sel (Oct 7, 2011)

Great news.
Hopefully your dog will be back home soon


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Just rang the lost dogs home (fancy name for pound) and they said they put him in a quieter area. They said he was fine, just a bit quiet and bewildered. We decided it is not a good idea to go see him as I will have to leave him there and it will just distress him more. He has shown absolutely no aggression to the staff or anything else so that is great.


----------



## Vixen (Oct 7, 2011)

That's super good news, i'm so happy for you. It broke my heart reading this story for the first time yesterday, so i'm glad it's turning out on a better note. It's so sad that the other dog was killed, but accidents happen and there is no use for two dogs dying over this unfortunate incident. =(


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Just found out it is going to cost around $400 to have him released, not quite sure how I am going to get that together yet but I will find a way and I have to somehow get home home from Cranbourne to Frankston with no car. Grrr. The weekend is going to suck, I wont be happy until I have him home and safe.


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 7, 2011)

SCAMMERS!!!!

but at least u get him back,...

im happy to donate $20,...send me ur acc deets.


----------



## Dragonwolf (Oct 7, 2011)

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm very happy the outcome has been positive after all the anguish. I'm with Chris1..... I'm happy to contribute $$$ to help you out. Send me details.


----------



## pharskie (Oct 7, 2011)

yeah bloody oath, i got $20 here im happy as larry to donate toward you getting your mate back. just pm the account details.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Thank you so much to the people that have offered donations, you help restore my faith in humanity.


----------



## Jay84 (Oct 7, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Just found out it is going to cost around $400 to have him released, not quite sure how I am going to get that together yet but I will find a way and I have to somehow get home home from Cranbourne to Frankston with no car. Grrr. The weekend is going to suck, I wont be happy until I have him home and safe.



What a horrible situation............. just read the thread and i couldn't think of anything worse.

Shame i am on holidays right now as i wouldn't have thought twice about coming to pick you up to collect your dog!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> What a horrible situation............. just read the thread and i couldn't think of anything worse.
> 
> Shame i am on holidays right now as i wouldn't have thought twice about coming to pick you up to collect your dog!


Thanks Jay


----------



## GeckoRider (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey if you have paypal i can transfer $18 over (Thats all i have in my account lol). What a scam.. $400 they should be paying you for emotional distress.. i didnt think they could charge you as they came to your propriety to pick him up..


----------



## Squirtle (Oct 7, 2011)

wow thats quite an experience to read so glad your getting your dog back! Hope everything goes well!

p.s if your open to small amounts I have 9$ in my account D: shouldn't of gone out last night! I would be glad to donate it to you!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

GeckoRider said:


> Hey if you have paypal i can transfer $18 over (Thats all i have in my account lol). What a scam.. $400 they should be paying you for emotional distress.. i didnt think they could charge you as they came to your propriety to pick him up..


There charging me for kennelling and a reclaiming fee and something else, I think they are just trying to bleed me cause they can. It is because I changed my mind which meant he had to be kennelled until the ranger gets back to work and speaks to the neighbours in person which could mean I am looking at Tuesday or Wednesday. And if they declare him dangerous I have to pay extra and buy their stupid sign and stupid collar, grrr


----------



## Asharee133 (Oct 7, 2011)

Aw laine D: If It wasn't so damned far away, i'd be happy to drive you!


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Asharee133 said:


> Aw laine D: If It wasn't so damned far away, i'd be happy to drive you!


Thanks Ash


----------



## GeckoRider (Oct 7, 2011)

Thats crap as... I Sent the money to your paypal


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks heaps Geckorider


----------



## GeckoRider (Oct 7, 2011)

Np At all i would have been absolutely devastated if this had happened to one of my dogs..


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 8, 2011)

Yes it is all very upsetting, I haven't eaten in days besides the odd snack here and there, and I only just got my uni application sent today, thankfully the uni was understanding as it was due today. Its the waiting that's the worst bit.


----------



## mad_at_arms (Oct 8, 2011)

Send us ya paypal account details KJ.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 8, 2011)

pharskie said:


> defs go down to the pound today to give him some treats and perhaps a blanket from home with the smell of yourself on it so he has something to help keep him calm and as happy as possible in thats crappy place. PLus to make sure he is ok, i have seen the extent of the scum like behaviour that our local rangers like to conduct, dogs "accidently" running into a fence when scared, or those "savage monsters" that they wrestle with untill the dog frets and wants to get away from the moron trying to dominate him. I am almost certain that one of the job needs to be a ranger is a small penis and a massive ego.



Aha! So that's why I didn't get that ranger's job when I applied for it... I've got the ego but...

Jamie


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 8, 2011)

Thank you mad_at_arms and Jamie.

Thought I would ad some pictures, these are from last year. Can't find where I stored the later shots so I am hoping I haven't deleted them. The first one is when I first got him and the others are at about 3 months, he still has the missing hair from his first brush with death and he had to have an oxygen mask glued on as he kept getting it off. They are a bit blurry as he wouldn't keep still. His eyes are not blue like that, that was a flash thing I think.


----------



## ToadCountry (Oct 8, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> There's a lesson there K, but the ranger should have counselled you rather than acting as he did. Breathing space and time to get things into perspective (difficult I know, but time is a great helper here) are enormously important in any decisions you have to make right now. If you were able to keep the dogs separate for the next few days, and assess what needed to be done to make a permanent fix, it seems more sensible to me. You'll always feel terrible about what has happened, the important thing is to make sure it can never happen again.
> 
> The ranger is right out of order in saying the dog looks like it may have "pit bull" in it - it's very subjective comment and he wouldn't ever be able to prove it. It's just feeding the stupid hysteria that's all around us at the moment.
> 
> ...



I think the ranger has actually given K a breather. At least her dog is safely locked up and away from the situation until the owners are informed. And being a bull arab.....well.....some of them DO have a pitty look to them. 

A nasty situation at my work a few months ago has made me realise the hard role that animal control have to play in these situations. The owner of the dog that was attacked and killed....crept over and drowned the other dog in it's own pool......then he followed these people to my work and continued getting things off his chest. Not good. Animal Control had gone to the property initially to talk to the owners of the dog that killed the other one.....and were told that they had given the dog away to someone who worked out bush. So, unable to do anything, they left, and the offending dog turned back up a week later - to the distress of the neighbours who had lost their dog....and it turned into a complete ****efest. 
K - I know you are second-guessing yourself about ringing the council - but don't. That will go in your favour.
I just hope the other owners understand and don't want to pursue it. Thats what you have to strive for.
Please know that I'm so sorry for what you are going through.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 8, 2011)

ToadCountry said:


> I think the ranger has actually given K a breather. At least her dog is safely locked up and away from the situation until the owners are informed. And being a bull arab.....well.....some of them DO have a pitty look to them.
> 
> A nasty situation at my work a few months ago has made me realise the hard role that animal control have to play in these situations. The owner of the dog that was attacked and killed....crept over and drowned the other dog in it's own pool......then he followed these people to my work and continued getting things off his chest. Not good. Animal Control had gone to the property initially to talk to the owners of the dog that killed the other one.....and were told that they had given the dog away to someone who worked out bush. So, unable to do anything, they left, and the offending dog turned back up a week later - to the distress of the neighbours who had lost their dog....and it turned into a complete ****efest.
> K - I know you are second-guessing yourself about ringing the council - but don't. That will go in your favour.
> ...



Have worked it out with the other neighbours ToadCountry, they don't want him put down. And I said to the ranger that of course he looks like he has pitbull in him as all bully type breeds are from the same ancestry, or words to that effect. I think he was just trying to catch me out because of the new laws here in Vic, he seemed happy enough to accept it when I said he wasn't but it doesn't mean he wont try pull that when I go to get him released.


----------



## ToadCountry (Oct 8, 2011)

That's good. They sound like really good people. 
I've got a Bull Arab AND a JR.  I know. I'm an idiot.  
Best of both worlds....I run them for miles of a morning, and lock them up when I'm not home. 
Left to their own devices, one will jump fair over the fence, while the other is busy digging under.

I know Vic is going through a huge change, however most of it is scare-mongering by the media.
Truthfully, I would love to see the same legislation up here in Cairns....it would make people pick up their act, and actually realise that they have to be responsible for their animals and not think it's fine to let them wander the streets day and night. 
But that's another story. 
REALLY glad you had a good outcome.


----------



## D.E.L.E.T.E (Oct 8, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> How does your dog come to attack 3 different dogs in 2 years if you have him on a lead?????


 1st time was wasking him across a bridge only had a metre gap to pass the other dog walker, and my dog broke his harness to get to the other dog. 2nd time i didnt shut the side gate properly and he got out ran up the road and got a staffy. 3rd time left the front door open than went out the back to get my surfboard when i was coming back through the back door he managed to slip past than straight out the front to attack 2 labs being walked past .... very unlucky


----------



## Dragonwolf (Oct 8, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Yes it is all very upsetting, I haven't eaten in days besides the odd snack here and there, and I only just got my uni application sent today, thankfully the uni was understanding as it was due today. Its the waiting that's the worst bit.



If I thought they'd arrive in edible condition I'd whip you up a batch of my brownies and send them down. ( They're to die for...)


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 8, 2011)

Don't say that, I love brownies.


----------



## Dragonwolf (Oct 8, 2011)

lol BROWNIES..... except they'd probably be "Furries" by the time they hit Victoria.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

I actually forced myself to eat 1/2 a burger tonight, so thats something I guess. I think I've had about 5 hours sleep in two days. The Lost Dogs Home is open in the morning tomorrow so going to ring and check on him again.

UPDATE: I just rang the LDH and she said she hadn't been down there today yet but there were no notes on his sheet so that means he is ok. She assured me nothing would happen until the ranger contacts them so I feel a little better but still not going to be happy until he's back home.


----------



## toximac (Oct 9, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> The fence was almost new, and it would not have happened with kids, he is a useless guard dog,.





KaotikJezta said:


> Well today the inevitable happened and the fence gave way and he killed one of their dogs.



Confused..?! - anyway, in my opinion, its a owners responsibility to keep their dog enclosed and not blame the fence. Ive seen it far too many times where a dog escapes, attacks, gets killed or stolen and they blame a person for leaving the gate open but don't take responsibility. Its absolute bull.. You have a dog, lock your gates and make a high enough fence it can't tackle/jump over, ESPECIALLY if its a hunter dog. If I had a dog that killed another dog, Id put it down straight away.. because in a similar scenario, the dog will do it again or worse.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

toximac said:


> Confused..?! - anyway, in my opinion, its a owners responsibility to keep their dog enclosed and not blame the fence. Ive seen it far too many times where a dog escapes, attacks, gets killed or stolen and they blame a person for leaving the gate open but don't take responsibility. Its absolute bull.. You have a dog, lock your gates and make a high enough fence it can't tackle/jump over, ESPECIALLY if its a hunter dog. If I had a dog that killed another dog, Id put it down straight away.. because in a similar scenario, the dog will do it again or worse.



Maybe you should read the whole thread before before commenting. Inevitable was probably the wrong word to use but at the time of writing the first post I was in a state. He did not jump the fence, a paling broke, right down the bottom allowing their dog entry. My dog never left the property. My dog can't jump my fence, my fence is high enough and my gates are locked. It did not tackle the fence. Please, in your expert opinion tell me why my neighbours or I would have suspected that a relatively new wooden fence with no holes or signs of damage would have a paling snap, as palings I assume are supposed to be hard wood. At the end of the day, noone but you is blaming anyone or anything, although I reacted like you initially in the heat of the moment, we are all just shocked and saddened that it happened. My neighbours don't want my dog put down, trainers that I have spoken to don't believe he should be put down, no one on this thread believes he should be put down so please share your expert area of expertise with us as to how you are so confident it will happen again.


----------



## Fantazmic (Oct 9, 2011)

There are some really good people on this list...and some that just need to be ignored. The person who wrote the ridiculouspost is in the latter category.

Please keep us up to date as to how you are going tomorrow

Take care

Elizabeth


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks Elizabeth, will do!


----------



## DHoffmann (Oct 9, 2011)

It's great to hear that people keep a level head over something that is clearly a non malicious but nevertheless tragic occurrence. 

If it's not been offered yet, I'd love to help pick your dog, I live locally (Sandy). If you want, PM me and we'll exchange numbers or work out time/place. I have to juggle around uni, but if I can I'm there to help.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks so much for that, PM sent


----------



## thelionking (Oct 9, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Thank you mad_at_arms and Jamie.
> 
> Thought I would ad some pictures, these are from last year. Can't find where I stored the later shots so I am hoping I haven't deleted them. The first one is when I first got him and the others are at about 3 months, he still has the missing hair from his first brush with death and he had to have an oxygen mask glued on as he kept getting it off. They are a bit blurry as he wouldn't keep still. His eyes are not blue like that, that was a flash thing I think.


Your dog is gorgeous  Good luck getting him back


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

Thank you


----------



## Smithers (Oct 9, 2011)

All the best in the morn  xo


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks Smithers


----------



## toximac (Oct 10, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Maybe you should read the whole thread before before commenting. (*I read all 9 pages*). Inevitable was probably the wrong word to use (*thats why Im confused*) but at the time of writing the first post I was in a state. He did not jump the fence, a paling broke, right down the bottom allowing their dog entry. My dog never left the property. My dog can't jump my fence, my fence is high enough and my gates are locked. It did not tackle the fence. (*never said you tackled the fence?!*) Please, in your expert opinion tell me why my neighbours or I would have suspected that a relatively new wooden fence with no holes or signs of damage would have a paling snap (*no expert sorry, just my opinion*), as palings I assume are supposed to be hard wood. At the end of the day, noone but you is blaming anyone or anything,(*I said people blame the fence/gate etc.*) although I reacted like you initially in the heat of the moment, we are all just shocked and saddened that it happened. My neighbours don't want my dog put down, trainers that I have spoken to don't believe he should be put down,(*trainers make the decision justified, ok.*) no one on this thread believes he should be put down(*I read all 9 pages I think people are skeptical*) so please share your expert area of expertise with us as to how you are so confident it will happen again.


(your invitation, but no expert. Id take out of it personal liability till I put my pet down, which you did first, but emotion over-ruled, and thats what I criticised. Ive known people who had cats roam/killed by dog, and seen them get the dog destroyed, which I was angry about. Or a dog who had roamed in my garden, ripped open my rabbit hutch and spread my rabbits body parts everywhere. That incident, I blamed myself for not having a fence, not the dog. And I had to put my cattle dog down for escaping and nipping at kids playing in their yard. So Im not reacting in the heat of the moment, or being heartless. I am however thinking logically with emotion separate (as its not my dog), and I try to consider everyones emotion but not let it alter my opinion. I mentioned Once a dog kills, high chance it will kill again, because it killed a dog/tasted live blood. Sympathy goes to the victim. To put a dog down who killed another dog would be hard. BUT.. In my opinion, I would have followed through, as my remorse for victim and chances of relying on a fence in suburbia with a hunter breed who killed , has high chances of killing again.

I know it was a 'small mutt dog', but it was a dog same as yours(to other comments) so I simply see it logically, considering breed of dog too. (which statistics show more care is needed and debated they should be illegal- as in singapore). Its really hard to separate emotions and you've had advice as you said, so Im happy you got what you wanted and your dog returns. Its prob. lucky you have great neighbours and everything. Although I don't agree, doesn't make me bad for opposing opinion, or someone who needs to agree, otherwise why post it and reveal gradual information. :-S ).

also




Fantazmic said:


> really good people on this list...and some that just need to be ignored. The person who wrote the ridiculouspost is in the latter category.
> Elizabeth


Thanks Elizabeth, I'll keep that in mind to ignore those people


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

toximac said:


> (your invitation, but no expert. Id take out of it personal liability till I put my pet down, which you did first, but emotion over-ruled, and thats what I criticised. Ive known people who had cats roam/killed by dog, and seen them get the dog destroyed, which I was angry about. Or a dog who had roamed in my garden, ripped open my rabbit hutch and spread my rabbits body parts everywhere. That incident, I blamed myself for not having a fence, not the dog. And I had to put my cattle dog down for escaping and nipping at kids playing in their yard. So Im not reacting in the heat of the moment, or being heartless. I am however thinking logically with emotion separate (as its not my dog), and I try to consider everyones emotion but not let it alter my opinion. I mentioned Once a dog kills, high chance it will kill again, because it killed a dog/tasted live blood. Sympathy goes to the victim. To put a dog down who killed another dog would be hard. BUT.. In my opinion, I would have followed through, as my remorse for victim and chances of relying on a fence in suburbia with a hunter breed who killed , has high chances of killing again.
> 
> I know it was a 'small mutt dog', but it was a dog same as yours(to other comments) so I simply see it logically, considering breed of dog too. (which statistics show more care is needed and debated they should be illegal- as in singapore). Its really hard to separate emotions and you've had advice as you said, so Im happy you got what you wanted and your dog returns. Its prob. lucky you have great neighbours and everything. Although I don't agree, doesn't make me bad for opposing opinion, or someone who needs to agree, otherwise why post it and reveal gradual information. :-S ).



No-one blamed the fence although I did mention I couldn't believe how thin the palings were. Both myself and the neighbours actually apportion more blame to the stray dog someone had happily let roam the street and jump into other peoples yards. Before the appearance of this dog both my dog and the neighbours dogs knew their boundarys and ignored each other. If you had read all nine pages you would see it was not a case of my dog suddenly thinking "oh, there are dogs next door, I am going to kill one". It was the dogs next door, geed up by the stray that had started barking and growling at my dog through the fence. I don't at all think next doors dogs life was worthless, he was a lovely little dog and I have cried as much for him and my neighbour as I have for my dog, just remember, I am the one that had to deal with it face to face when it happened.Also consider there was still another dog next door but my dog made no attempt to break the fence further and go after it, he stayed in my yard. You would also have read that my neighbours and I will be working together to erect metal fencing to ensure it does not happen again and now due to the realisation there is a stray dog entering their yard, they are not going to let their dog out unsupervised. As for my decision to save him being based on emotion, my decision to put him down was entirely emotion driven, the decision to save him has come from talking to people on here, trainers, the fact that he didn't have an interest in chasing the other dog and the fact that my neighbours don't want him to be put down. Don't even start me on BSL, there is a whole other thread on that where you can voice your opinion. As for your statement about revealing gradual information, not sure what you mean but the first post was written while I was completely distraught and still in a state of shock over the whole incident.

EDIT: Just read what dogs are banned in Singapore and my dog is not one of them although Bull Mastiffs have to be on leash and muzzled in public so don't know where you got that from.


----------



## ajandj (Oct 10, 2011)

are you people actual serious??
This friendly pet dog that lives with children.. has broken down a fence and killed a "ratdog" for barking...
hello?? does no one else here see the signing of whats to come?
Yes l know how attached you become to your family pet, been there done that. But l tell you, l would have serious concerns about the children that play in the yard with this animal,
You guys can think me heartless, a **$#, whatever but l tell you, coming from someone whos been there done that.. Open your eyes and see the signs before a child is killed.

We had a dog, i was 15 at the time. Most beautiful dog ever. Sheppard X Doberman. My brothe bought him home as a tiny pup and it was the best thing. We'd lost a dog to old age a couple of years yearlier. Anyway, cut a very long story short, our dog would have been 5 at the time. My brother had left home a couple of years yearlier and couldn't take the dog so l kept him. I fed him, bathed him, walked him, slept with him. He was my dog..
There was a yap yap up the street, our dog got out and killed it. We fort hammer and tong to keep our dog and did. Not 3 months later, l was in hospital after meaning attacked in our yard by our dog. There was no lead up, there was no nothing. I had not yelled at him, there was no play fighting involved. There was however a new yap yap in the street 2 doors down that had been barking constantly for a couple of hours.
I walked into our yard, called the dog and he knocked me over from behind and started biting me.. l can't tell you the pain.. the fear. i thought l was going to die.
I made the decision to put my dog down because if he would attack me.. what about the younger kids.. what about the neighbors kids..

I'm sorry for your loss, l truely am but look at the bigger picture.. it could be one of your innocent children next.. or someone elses..
I know l am going to hate mail for this, and so be it, this is purely my opinion and my experience.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

ajandj said:


> are you people actual serious??
> This friendly pet dog that lives with children.. has broken down a fence and killed a "ratdog" for barking...
> hello?? does no one else here see the signing of whats to come?
> Yes l know how attached you become to your family pet, been there done that. But l tell you, l would have serious concerns about the children that play in the yard with this animal,
> ...




Umm, I don't have any young children, no children play in the yard with him??. He didn't break down the fence, a paling snapped. The hole in the fence was less than 30cm square. Your dog got out and killed a dog barking up the street, my dog reacted to what was essentially a small pack of dogs *growling* and barking at his territorial boundary. The attack happened on my property. There are plenty of dogs that bark for hours in our street, that is not the reason this happened. My dog has never left my yard except to be walked, he has never even tried to. You just pretty much answered your own question as to why the dog attacked you. You slept with it? Did you train it to establish you were the pack leader, did you take any steps with trainers etc to modify your dogs aggression after it killed the dog as I have arranged to do. Did you take it to the vet to see if it had any medical problem that may have lead it to snap. As much as I am sorry for what happened to you, dog aggression towards other dogs does not instantly translate to dog aggression towards humans unless there is some underlying problem. We had a staffy that hated our oldest cattle dog x, he hassled her constantly from when she was a pup because he was old and grumpy and one day she snapped and attacked him. No amount of training could make them safe together, we tried everything, so, as he was pretty old we decided to separate them. The cattle dog got progressively grumpier with the Chinese Crested also, so although she attacked him, he had actually provoked it. On the flip side she was best friends with my cats and my Chinese crested and loved everyone she ever met. She also had no problem with other dogs and cats and never attacked anything or anyone again. I have spoken to three separate trainers about this incident and all agree it was incited and he is not a lost cause.


----------



## ajandj (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry, misread about the kids.
Yes, we contacted obedience training in the area and they put us in touch with a "dog whisperer" - trainer. We went thru extensive training.
Yes, we did seek advice and have testing done by a vet - something l would never have thought of (nor my mum at the time) but the trainer suggested it so we followed thru.
We were told - at the time, the dog showed no agressive trates, he was well trained, we walk (lead on after the attck of the other dog), with no problems.. cats roaming, birds, other dogs.
We walked day and night, at night he was a little different, More alert and if someone came out from around a corner or what have you, yes he would go into attack mode, but that's "normal" behaviour for any day.

I just thank god it was me and not one of the young kids in the street what would come play in our yard, with swing sets, slides, sandpits.. you know all the great playground stuff.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

ajandj said:


> Sorry, misread about the kids.
> Yes, we contacted obedience training in the area and they put us in touch with a "dog whisperer" - trainer. We went thru extensive training.
> Yes, we did seek advice and have testing done by a vet - something l would never have thought of (nor my mum at the time) but the trainer suggested it so we followed thru.
> We were told - at the time, the dog showed no agressive trates, he was well trained, we walk (lead on after the attck of the other dog), with no problems.. cats roaming, birds, other dogs.
> ...



Fair enough but it still doesn't mean my dog is the same, completely different set of circumstances and I question why any obedience trainer would think it was a good idea to let the dog share your bed, designated sleeping areas is usually a major aspect of training.


----------



## ajandj (Oct 10, 2011)

no, he slept with me prior to going to obedience. The only obedience we did was after the attack on the dog. Prior to that, he was the perfect dog. We very rarely walked with a lead, l had him totally under control. l would just have to speak or whistle our special whistle and he would fall in as in, be at my feet awaiting my affection.


----------



## Gecko :) (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow,. what an awful thing to have happen!
I am so pleased to read there is hope of getting your dog back.
I cant imagine how you have been feeling.

Is there any news on when you can pick him up?

I cant believe they are trying to charge you $400 to pick him up?!
I am happy to pitch in $20 if its still needed


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 10, 2011)

hey KJ! Hope all goes well today!! 

Ajandj, while it was unfortunate what happened to you in your case, every dog is different. Not long after we bought our Aussie bulldog home he attacked our Jack Russell, they were both full males and battled it out one day when we werent home. Our poor little fella nearly died, it turned out that he had only been bitten once but as Blocka weighed 40kgs it was enough to do serious damage. we got him fixed up and desexed to try and calm the situation.
we ended up rehoming him because even after he was desexed he still thought he was the big man around the house and continued to stir up Blocka trying to start fights. Blocka never went near him again. 
Now blocka is my 2 year olds best mate. He has never in the 5 years we have had him even so much as growled at us or Matilda and now we have a kitten that runs around the back yard with him and his mate, LuLu.
For all we know KJ's dog may have just given a warning bite and due to his size it was just to much. It doesnt mean that he is a dangerous dog, it just means he has stuffed up ONCE.


----------



## eitak (Oct 10, 2011)

I have an older large (35 kgs) dog who has not killed another dog but was locked onto another dog so tight he had to be dragged into the ocean and held under water to get him to let go. 

We have since had kids (some as young as 3) at our house and he has absolutely no issues with humans, if anything he is cowardly around humans to the extent of hiding under my bed when we have a BBQ etc. 

To say from your experience that all dogs that kill another dog will attack a human is quite ridiculous every dog is different like every human is different.


----------



## fisherjayse (Oct 10, 2011)

just read the whole thread and it was so sad. i really feel for you.
we have a JR and they are natural hunters. most people here said it wasnt ur fault and it wasnt, it wasnt the neighbours dogs fault either it was just the JR barking and growling that caused it.
i really feel for you.
Glad its turnig out well for you and your dog and beautiful dog btw
Tom


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 10, 2011)

eitak said:


> I have an older large (35 kgs) dog who has not killed another dog but was locked onto another dog so tight he had to be dragged into the ocean and held under water to get him to let go.
> 
> We have since had kids (some as young as 3) at our house and he has absolutely no issues with humans, if anything he is cowardly around humans to the extent of hiding under my bed when we have a BBQ etc.
> 
> To say from your experience that all dogs that kill another dog will attack a human is quite ridiculous every dog is different like every human is different.



The best appraoch is never give them the chance. By nature, dogs are competitive, and males especially aspire to be leader of the pack, whether it's a pack of dogs or their pack is made up of humans. NEVER leave a dog unsupervised with small children, regardless of how much YOU trust it. It's a disaster just waiting to happen, and you're simply asking for trouble... for which the dog will pay a very high price. There are HUNDREDS of stories where the owner has said "Ooooh... he's never done anything like that before!" as the animal is being taken away to be put to death... if the dog sees itself as being between you and the child/children in terms of pack seniority, then it will naturally assert its dominance to maintain the hierarchy, with catastrophic consequences for the child AND the dog...

Jamie


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 10, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> The best appraoch is never give them the chance. By nature, dogs are competitive, and males especially aspire to be leader of the pack, whether it's a pack of dogs or their pack is made up of humans. NEVER leave a dog unsupervised with small children, regardless of how much YOU trust it. It's a disaster just waiting to happen, and you're simply asking for trouble... for which the dog will pay a very high price. There are HUNDREDS of stories where the owner has said "Ooooh... he's never done anything like that before!" as the animal is being taken away to be put to death... if the dog sees itself as being between you and the child/children in terms of pack seniority, then it will naturally assert its dominance to maintain the hierarchy, with catastrophic consequences for the child AND the dog...
> 
> Jamie



I agree with you totally, neither of our dogs are ever left unsupervised with Matilda. I have friends tat have 3 massive malamute dogs that are getting old, and Tilly accidentally stood on his tail! I was horrified when he turned around and snapped at her. it was just lucky that I was standing right next to her or god knows what might have happened. All dogs have the ability to bite and we never know what may set them off.


----------



## eitak (Oct 10, 2011)

I never claimed to have left my dog alone with small children, just saying he has been around them and pays them no attention.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 10, 2011)

Our dogs are the same eitak. Theyd rather sit quietly with us than be near kids, except for tilda, she's there mate. The funniest is watching 2 big bulldogs bouncing on a trampoline with her!


----------



## eitak (Oct 10, 2011)

aaaww that is so cute, our big boy is such a sook!! The amounts of times I've had a few people over and found him hidden under my bed hahah so cute!!! I am more concerned about our staff pup who bounces off everything and everyone


----------



## grimbeny (Oct 10, 2011)

I think you are completely in denial about this KaotikJezta. If you dont see how this is your fault then you fall into the category of one of those idiots who has aggresive dogs but doesnt take the issue seriously. If you dont have the power to buy appropriate fencing because you are renting then why do you have a dog that is obviously a dangerous breed (or mix of there of)? By all reasoning even if the dog was killed on your property the fact that your dog killed another dog is sufficient, it is your fault. And thoughout this thread you have definatly suggested it was your dog that broke the fence. What warning signs would you need to be satisfied that your dog might harm a neighbours kid that is causing trouble? what if a kid climbed through your fence onto your property, does it deserve to be murdered? At the very least accept that your dog has caused this damage and that you personally as its owner are responcible. If you as someone who is such a staunch defender of dangerouse breeds cant, then I seriously beleive that no one is responcible enough to own one.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 10, 2011)

How is her dog a dangerous breed?


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 10, 2011)

My post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, just for generic dog management.

J


----------



## eitak (Oct 10, 2011)

How's it going KJ any news?


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

grimbeny said:


> I think you are completely in denial about this KaotikJezta. If you dont see how this is your fault then you fall into the category of one of those idiots who has aggresive dogs but doesnt take the issue seriously. If you dont have the power to buy appropriate fencing because you are renting then why do you have a dog that is obviously a dangerous breed (or mix of there of)? By all reasoning even if the dog was killed on your property the fact that your dog killed another dog is sufficient, it is your fault. And thoughout this thread you have definatly suggested it was your dog that broke the fence. What warning signs would you need to be satisfied that your dog might harm a neighbours kid that is causing trouble? what if a kid climbed through your fence onto your property, does it deserve to be murdered? At the very least accept that your dog has caused this damage and that you personally as its owner are responcible. If you as someone who is such a staunch defender of dangerouse breeds cant, then I seriously beleive that no one is responcible enough to own one.



I never denied responsibility, hence leaving it up to my neighbours to decide. As for the fencing, I am buying appropriate fencing, or did you miss that part. I never denied my dog broke the fence, I denied my dog broke it down and entered there yard. As stated before, just because it happened with another dog, does not mean he is human aggressive. Don't use this an excuse to attack me because you disagree with my opinion on a different thread.



Gecko :) said:


> Wow,. what an awful thing to have happen!
> I am so pleased to read there is hope of getting your dog back.
> I cant imagine how you have been feeling.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gecko.

UPDATE: Spoke to the council and he will be coming home on Wednesday. They decided to only charge kennelling until today so it is still only the initial $423 to pick him up. Will post pictures when I go to get him. Thanks everyone for all your support and help through this, I don't know what I'd have done without it.


----------



## euphorion (Oct 10, 2011)

Having a dog sleep on your bed is by no means a precursor to that dog challenging a heirachy. All my dogs have always been allowed to sleep wherever they please, conditional on moving themselves when asked. They all obey all commands given, even if it be by a stranger or child, on and off my property. They all obey commands given to them by complete strangers even at the dog park with balls flying about and other dogs to interact with (distractions) and will happily be told what to do by small children. They don't need bribery or 'treats' as rewards and never have they needed to be corrected for not listening to commands. They do this because they understand that i am the leader of their pack, i only ask of them what i expect them to do to maintain the peace and not listening to me results in 'mumma-dog' corrections such as a nip, growl or 'angry face'. I can simply change my body posture and raise my lip to them and they understand that i have not been impressed with their behaviour which results in them returning to my feet and waiting to be released again back to play.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is it all depends on the individual. My dogs are not of the nature to challenge a person or child for position in the pack. They will all happily eat out of the same bowl, even let the cat eat out of their bowl while they are there too. Originally my rotti x defended her food bowl frmo the others are growled at the cat but now she knows there is no point in it. There is no competition between them because i have taught them as they have grown that this is not needed in our family, and that by altering their behaviour to suit my desires results in much more pleasant experiences for them. I have retrained and rehomed several large-breed dogs that prior to being in my care have displayed dog on dog food oriented aggression, all they need is to be shown that is expected of them and that by complying they achieve much more desirable outcomes than by 'doing it their own way'. 

I guess i just got a bit upset by the references made to 'professional dog trainers' implying that allowing a dog(s) to share ones bed is encouraging them to challenge the structure. If you are a reliable, trustworthy and consistent 'pack' leader that provides for their family and fulfills their needs physically and mentally then why would your animal have reason to challenge you? The vast majority of dogs do not wish to be the leader of a pack, it is an unstable position that carries inherant stresses and volatility, if given the choice most dogs will happily defer to a confident and worthy human to tell them what to do. Some dogs do not have this in their nature, either by their breeding or their past experiences such as breeds like Huskies or animals treated poorly in the past. (I say Huskies simply because they are a very independant animal and in being so they can be stubborn, too smart for their own good sometimes, lol.)

Anyway, to me it sounds like your dog - ajandj - redirected his aggression onto you that day. In being stirred up by the new little dogs next door he was already in a heightened state of anxiety and by initiating a wrestling game he may have just been pushed over the edge. Its a very common thing to happen. Ever walked past a gated property with two or more dogs inside going batty about our dog passing by? And they all havea good go at the fence and sometimes leap on each other too? They are redirecting their aggressive instincts onto each other because they can't get to their target beyond the fence. Either that or some sort of neurological disease could have been the cause. I'm sorry for your experience, i'm not trying to belittle it, but if i were in your shoes i would only presume their to be something more going on.

For example, i love to wrestle with my dog but i know she is too strong for me and could do my some serious damage if she got too excited and accidentally bit too hard. I have taught her that 'stop' means to move away from me and wait for the next command. Works every time. It is especially good because i have confidence in knowing that she is always waiting for the command and so is paying attention to me constantly and therefore always waiting for the 'game' to end and turn into an obedience training session. Handy too if kids or 'non-doggy' people are visiting as wish her to leave them alone, they can simply say 'stop' or 'get out' or point to another room in the house and say 'go' and she will obey them, knowing that non-compliance generally results in her being left in the kitchen on her own (she's a sappy dog really). 

Bleh. I got my goat up over a silly comment, sorry guys, but i just had to put my two cents in. My dogs sleep where they please, when they please. All it takes for you to get them to move is a simple request and never have they shown even the slightest interest in not obeying. I guess they know that i have my reasons (more often than not thought i get them off the couch and just squish up so we all fit, they're my hot water bottles!) Oh and cat jumps up and sleeps amongst them too, ahah.

So happy he's coming home!! Please give him a hug for me.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry shooshoo, didn't mean to offend you at all and I see your point totally.


----------



## euphorion (Oct 10, 2011)

I tried not to get antsy, i really did, but i get upset when people say things that generalise all dogs when they are as varied as we are. 

I'm really pleased to hear he is coming home, i've been worrying about it all weekend. I can only imagine how distraught i would be if i had been in your shoes lately. Good you have such lovely neighbours too, only a shame your boy just went too far. It's such a shame but so true that big dogs only get one chance with such power in their jaws while little dogs are just giggled at when they're little rats. (Nothing against little dogs, just ones that stir up the big ones.) There is a little mop head (at least that's what he looks like) at my park who just barks and barks all the while he's there, very frustrating!


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 10, 2011)

shooshoo said:


> only a shame your boy just went too far. It's such a shame but so true that big dogs only get one chance with such power in their jaws while little dogs are just giggled at when they're little rats. (Nothing against little dogs, just ones that stir up the big ones.) There is a little mop head (at least that's what he looks like) at my park who just barks and barks all the while he's there, very frustrating!



Thats it exactly shoo shoo. there was a report in one of the sydney papers a couple of years ago and, not that I believe everything in the papers, Maltese were in the top 5 for "attacking" people, it was just that they were small dogs that you dont hear of these things...


----------



## atothej09 (Oct 10, 2011)

I am a dog lover...but I also have kids, so, I am very glad to see the Victorian laws changed. I don't believe I would ever get over losing a child to a dog, nor would I ever forgive the dog owner.


----------



## ajandj (Oct 10, 2011)

shooshoo - there was no play fighting/wrestling involved. I made a typo in that post it was supposed to me no instead l typed my.
As for the sleeping on my bed, that was our choice this happened for 2 years before the attack on the other dog and the trainer had no imput into that whatso ever. As with you, as long as he mpved if he was asked, then that was fine. Also as with you, the dog was not struck with anything, Verbal comand was all it took. Change the tone to get the desired response.

I NOW believe that dogs have 2 chances. The first is when you allow then to enter your home and your family. The second is the first time they bite/attack anything.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

This isn't a thread about BSL so stop trying to make it one.


----------



## ajandj (Oct 10, 2011)

what is BLS


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

Breed Specific Legislation


----------



## Red-Ink (Oct 10, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Breed Specific Legislation



I could think of another meaning for BSL but we won't go there....


----------



## JAS101 (Oct 10, 2011)

when i had my siberian husky we put cyclone wire on the inside of our fence [ as its a old woodern fence] so she could never ever get through and do any damage to the dogs next door ..... whats my point -- have u fixed the fence so it can NEVER happen again ?


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

He's staying inside except for on leash outings until the fence is fixed.


----------



## euphorion (Oct 10, 2011)

Lucky pooch! Hehe, i bet he won't mind staying inside one bit


----------



## toximac (Oct 10, 2011)

Like grimbeny said, it seems you are in denial and you did blame the fence + come up with a diff. reason why it happened or try to make justified explanations.. like trainer advice to topic change on BSL.
It was a passing comment in debate they Banned breed in Singapore. (forget that). The fact is, you have a hunter breed of dog, Are you in denial of this? simple yes or no. 
Also, if a child gets hurt, you cannot blame the fence. Id get out of it a warning, wouldn't you? Of something that could possibly be far worse where this dog would snap?

You somehow seem not responsible or acknowledge this could possibly happen again, which is scary I think.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

toximac said:


> Its not a BSL post - but like grimbeny said. You have to accept responsibility for the dogs actions and be prepared for future actions. Which it seems you are in denial of because you did blame the fence or come up with a diff. reason why it happened or a justified explanation changes from trainer advice to talking about BSL.
> It was a passing comment in debate they Banned breed in Singapore. The fact is, you have a hunter breed of dog, Are you in denial of this? simple yes or no.
> Also, if a child gets hurt, you cannot blame the fence. Id get out it a 'precaution' of whats to come, but you somehow seem not responsible or acknowledge this could possibly happen, which is scary and not right, by my opinion, of owning a killer dog.



It was other people that were trying to make this about BSL. Never once changed the reason it happened, fact is there were a number of reasons and yes I do shoulder responsibility. Bull Arab is not even on the Singapore list, Bull Mastiff is not banned. Yes it is a hunting breed, but not used for hunting, neither were its parents. There are many breeds of domestic dogs that are hunting breeds, including the neighbors Jack Russells. As for your other points, all have been answered previously so go troll someone elses thread.


----------



## euphorion (Oct 10, 2011)

toximac said:


> Like grimbeny said, it seems you are in denial and you did blame the fence + come up with a diff. reason why it happened or try to make justified explanations.. like trainer advice to topic change on BSL.
> It was a passing comment in debate they Banned breed in Singapore. (forget that). The fact is, you have a hunter breed of dog, Are you in denial of this? simple yes or no.
> Also, if a child gets hurt, you cannot blame the fence. Id get out of it a warning, wouldn't you? Of something that could possibly be far worse where this dog would snap?
> 
> You somehow seem not responsible or acknowledge this could possibly happen again, which is scary I think.



This is rediculous. A dog being capable of attacking another dog does not ultimately make it capable of attacking a human or child. You are being completely out of line to judge when you do not personally know the owner or the animal when this thread was started seeking nothing but comfort and friendly ears. You have made your point known and voiced it clearly, no point labouring it now.

ugh, it's pretty obvious Kaoti is taking this more than seriously enough.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

Way to completely edit your post toximac


----------



## GeckoRider (Oct 10, 2011)

Why has this became about attacking children... God some people have problems... Dogs fight hers was bigger it won.. i'm sure if the jack Russel was bigger it would have kill her dog.. Hell if my poodles got the chance they would kill another dog... lol... also.. i don't think kids will break thru her fence and attack her dog... What should you take from this.... EVERY dog has potential to kill if put in the right situation... Dont Just pin it on one breed...


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Oct 10, 2011)

This has become what it has because Kao voiced her opinions about PBs in a different thread, and the immature members who took it personally have come here to insult her in a stab at proving their point about being right.


----------



## alrightknight (Oct 10, 2011)

I would of told the neighbours their dog was taken by a large bird of prey, and you broke through the fence in an attempt to save the poor creature alas to no prevail.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

Went to visit my neighbour a while ago to make sure he was ok and see if there was anything I could do. He was hoping Kaeleb was home. He said the ranger had tried to put words into his mouth when he rang today and was clearly annoyed that I had changed my mind. (They must get a bonus for getting rid of large dogs). My neighbour point blank refused to buy into his goading and said he wanted my dog saved and home. The ranger then went on to harrass him about his Jack Russell puppy because in she is only 4 months old and therefore not yet desexed. He now has to join Vicdogs and register her undesexed or cop the fine. I just think it is so petty and vindictive to put this man through this just because he couldn't get his way. Thankfully it is now totally out of this rangers hands as he has already informed LDH Kaeleb is to be released. So much for the fake compassion he showed when I initially surrendered Kaeleb.



alrightknight said:


> I would of told the neighbours their dog was taken by a large bird of prey, and you broke through the fence in an attempt to save the poor creature alas to no prevail.



It was because I didn't try something like that and I did contact council that they ultimately decided they didn't want Kaeleb put down.


----------



## 10hcaro (Oct 10, 2011)

GeckoRider said:


> Why has this became about attacking children... God some people have problems... Dogs fight hers was bigger it won.. i'm sure if the jack Russel was bigger it would have kill her dog.. Hell if my poodles got the chance they would kill another dog... lol... also.. i don't think kids will break thru her fence and attack her dog... What should you take from this.... EVERY dog has potential to kill if put in the right situation... Dont Just pin it on one breed...



Could not agree with this more. I was bitten on the foot by a JR earlier this year and by god, he shook it around like a tiger shark! After the event, I was informed that he was a 'problem' dog and had done it several times before. I didn't have the heart to take action against the dog, but I couldn't help thinking that if it was a Mastiff or PB over here (was in the UK at the time), it'd be euthed immediately. I've never feared dogs before, and I've grown up around Danes and Mastiffs, but after that I was quite nervous around small breeds. I think it is so unfair that large dogs get the reputation, while aggressive terriers and such are ignored. It is about how you train and treat the dog, with a bit of consideration about the specific breed characteristics thrown in.


----------



## StimiLove (Oct 10, 2011)

i havent read everything on this blog or i'll be here all day. But i am getting the point that your dog is being given a second chance and is not going anywhere? I am a HUGE doggy (and snake) fan, and was so upset when i read of what happened. Both for your dog and the little Jack Russell. But accidents happen and i am happy to hear your dog will be fine. Shame about the little Jack Russell (i have one of those) but no one is to blame at the end of the day. We can only learn from these experiences and prevent them in the future.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 10, 2011)

Thanks StimiLove


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Oct 11, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> Unfortunately marcmarc with the current hysteria about dangerous dogs they would probably twist it all around so I look like the bad guy.


Now if you and the neighbour tell the media about the intimidating bullying ranger and the image of your dog,which seems to be very photogenic,,you need to try to control the direction they take obviously,,but if you present a united front it would make a great story forr TT..Also,if you need a hand with the fence,give me a cal,u got the number and im not far away.This is a real heartbreaker of a story and my heart goes out to u K.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks sssnakeman, as for the media thing, I don't think my neighbour would be into that, not sure I am either, haha. Also, he's already insinuated he is going to check up on me. I'd rather keep government "dogs" off my back.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 11, 2011)

toximac said:


> Like grimbeny said, it seems you are in denial and you did blame the fence + come up with a diff. reason why it happened or try to make justified explanations.. like trainer advice to topic change on BSL.
> It was a passing comment in debate they Banned breed in Singapore. (forget that). The fact is, you have a hunter breed of dog, Are you in denial of this? simple yes or no.
> Also, if a child gets hurt, you cannot blame the fence. Id get out of it a warning, wouldn't you? Of something that could possibly be far worse where this dog would snap?
> 
> You somehow seem not responsible or acknowledge this could possibly happen again, which is scary I think.



Gee... talk about the Inquisition! Judge and jury wrapped up in one package. I have a Staffy, an enormously strong and energetic dog, who is simply the most affectionate, delightful animal I've had in 40-0dd years of dog ownership, and completely unterritorial. I also have two JRs, which are what JRs are - hunting dogs. They are on the go all day in the garden from dawn to dusk. My vet of many years experience has told me more than once that if he's going to get bitten, it will be by the smaller terriers nine out of ten times - the bigger dogs with supposedly aggressive tendencies don't feature in his list of dangerous breeds.

A great number of the stories we read about and see on TV regarding dog attacks feature the Staffy/Pit Bull breeds because the press loves them to be involved in all high profile dog attacks. I remember when a diver named Bob Bartle was killed by a shark in WA decades ago (1967). I was working at the WA Museum at the time, and despite the fact that his wetsuit was retrieved, and a couple of shark teeth were found in his remains, the press to this day maintains he was taken by a Great White Shark... despite the fact that damage to the wetsuit and the teeth the shark left behind indicated it was a large Tiger Shark. Never let the truth get in the way of the natural bias of the press.

It's the same with dogs...

Sorry KJ, a bit off-topic, but I get sick of these pontificating ****ers who really need to get lives of their own.

Jamie


----------



## Snakewoman (Oct 11, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> as for the media thing, I don't think my neighbour would be into that, not sure I am either



Best to stay as far away from the media as possible. They could be on your side initially, but they'll turn on you in a heartbeat if they think it'll increase their ratings.


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 11, 2011)

JAS101 said:


> when i had my siberian husky we put cyclone wire on the inside of our fence [ as its a old woodern fence] so she could never ever get through and do any damage to the dogs next door ..... whats my point -- have u fixed the fence so it can NEVER happen again ?



That's not a point, that's a question.


----------



## eitak (Oct 11, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> that's not a point, that's a question.



bam!!!


----------



## MisssssSyrine (Oct 11, 2011)

I feel for you and your loss  the whole dangerous dogs thing is really going to get out of hand and leave many loving responsible dog owners with only option a) to choose from, it sux really.....


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 11, 2011)

Went to visit Kaeleb in lock-up today. He was very calm and well behaved, gave him a pat and he gave me some kisses through the bars (they wouldn't let me in with him). He seemed really surprised to see me at first which I guess is normal under the circumstances. Anyways, here is a picture:


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Oct 11, 2011)

whens he coming home KJ?


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 11, 2011)

Tomorrow after 3. Just PM'ed you on Facebook


----------



## euphorion (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh my goodness, so adorable! I love bully breeds, just a beautifully put together type of dog (alright, lets exclude the english bulldog...) 

YAY!


----------



## Bel03 (Oct 12, 2011)

shooshoo said:


> Oh my goodness, so adorable! I love bully breeds, just a beautifully put together type of dog (alright, lets exclude the english bulldog...)
> 
> YAY!



Oh come on u big meanie, their rolls are so cute! :lol:

KJ.....i wont say much, except im happy for you & your boy that you will be reunited! As for the people that have given you their opinions on what could happen next........well i havent read through every comment, but the ones i have read, i will say i dont exactly disagree with all that they have said. Now please dont think im attacking you or your dog, at all, cause im not! But, i wanted to say that i do believe that sometimes after a dog has been involved in a fight with another dog, something can 'change' inside them. As a child we had dobermans, they were the most beautiful, loyal, loving dogs, until one day the neighbours poodle got through the fence & our dogs 'played too rough' & killed it. 2 days later, our male bit my dad while he was putting their bowls down for dinner, a week later our girl bit me on the side of the head when i was walking out the door........these dogs had never shown any kind of aggression before the 'fight'.......i believe things can change, i seen it myself. Also, unfortunatley my brother is going through a similar thing now, my neice was attacked by a cattle dog, usually a very placid laid back dog, she has played with this dog for 4yrs now, & there has never been a problem. Just over a week before he mauled my neice though, he was also involved in a dog fight, it was a 'through the fence' fight, no dog was injured, however something changed in this dogs mind.......it can & does happen! Im not saying at all that your dog will do the same, he may very well be the same natured dog he was before this, & im sure that after what you have both been through, you will be watching him close, but i thought i would just put it out there that yes, in some cases after a dog fight, a normally good, well behaved, non agressive dog, can become one that isnt so trustworthy. Again, please dont think im attacking you, i REALLY am thankful u are getting your boy back, & i hope you never have to go through anything like this again.


----------



## Beard (Oct 12, 2011)

eitak said:


> bam!!!



And the dirt is gone


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Bel711 said:


> Oh come on u big meanie, their rolls are so cute! :lol:
> 
> KJ.....i wont say much, except im happy for you & your boy that you will be reunited! As for the people that have given you their opinions on what could happen next........well i havent read through every comment, but the ones i have read, i will say i dont exactly disagree with all that they have said. Now please dont think im attacking you or your dog, at all, cause im not! But, i wanted to say that i do believe that sometimes after a dog has been involved in a fight with another dog, something can 'change' inside them. As a child we had dobermans, they were the most beautiful, loyal, loving dogs, until one day the neighbours poodle got through the fence & our dogs 'played too rough' & killed it. 2 days later, our male bit my dad while he was putting their bowls down for dinner, a week later our girl bit me on the side of the head when i was walking out the door........these dogs had never shown any kind of aggression before the 'fight'.......i believe things can change, i seen it myself. Also, unfortunatley my brother is going through a similar thing now, my neice was attacked by a cattle dog, usually a very placid laid back dog, she has played with this dog for 4yrs now, & there has never been a problem. Just over a week before he mauled my neice though, he was also involved in a dog fight, it was a 'through the fence' fight, no dog was injured, however something changed in this dogs mind.......it can & does happen! Im not saying at all that your dog will do the same, he may very well be the same natured dog he was before this, & im sure that after what you have both been through, you will be watching him close, but i thought i would just put it out there that yes, in some cases after a dog fight, a normally good, well behaved, non agressive dog, can become one that isnt so trustworthy. Again, please dont think im attacking you, i REALLY am thankful u are getting your boy back, & i hope you never have to go through anything like this again.




Thanks Bel, I do understand what your saying and I will keep an eye on him. The thing the other comments said I didn't agree with was that it is a given. I do think the fact that he has not shown any signs of aggression with total strangers at the pound is a good sign though and he has been washed on the face by them since being there, most dogs are not too fond of that. My ex had a dog that was extremely dog aggressive and had killed a few cats in his own yard but was always a total softy with people. I definitely will take it on board though. I just spoke to the pound and it is confirmed, he is coming home at 3.30.


----------



## Bel03 (Oct 12, 2011)

Im glad u were able to see i wasnt attacking u or your boy! & i agree with what u said above, it ISNT a given, it is a possibilty. Im glad he will be home with u soon. All the best!


----------



## SperO (Oct 12, 2011)

Instinct can take over with all animals. I've heard mother cats can be playing with their kittens when the kitten does something that sets the mum on prey mode and next thing you know she killed her own kitten. It doesn't mean that she is aggressive or anything but people do need to realise that animals are in fact ANIMALS. just take precautions. Id be more worried about the humans in this world then a few dogs!

good to hear you are getting your dog back


----------



## TheRedMarmox (Oct 12, 2011)

Can't wait to see a photo of your dog back at home


----------



## hissnbits (Oct 12, 2011)

Looking forward to news after 3 that he is home..


----------



## Flanders199 (Oct 12, 2011)

Seriously....this is bad ownership i feel no sympathy for you anymore, that's just ridiculous!

Through the first 8 pages i really did feel sorry for you but after i read that it's had 3 attacks, that's ridiculous! How does that happen, sorry if it seems like i'm attacking you but i've personally been attacked on 2 different occasions from dogs not being kept under control due to poor ownership and it would break me in half if someones dog killed mine because of slack ownership!


----------



## Firedrake (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm sorry where do you get three attacks from? He's coming home after 3pm not after 3 attacks?

And congrats Kaotik I'm glad to hear he's coming home safe, he's so beautiful.


----------



## DeadCricket (Oct 12, 2011)

Pm me too. Lets see if we can get this sorted. I would hate for my bull arab x bull mastif puppy to go!


----------



## snakeynewbie (Oct 12, 2011)

Flanders that was someone elses dog that had attacked three other dogs.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Flanders199 said:


> Seriously....this is bad ownership i feel no sympathy for you anymore, that's just ridiculous!
> 
> Through the first 8 pages i really did feel sorry for you but after i read that it's had 3 attacks, that's ridiculous! How does that happen, sorry if it seems like i'm attacking you but i've personally been attacked on 2 different occasions from dogs not being kept under control due to poor ownership and it would break me in half if someones dog killed mine because of slack ownership!



3 attacks, where did you get that from??


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2011)

Flanders199... I think that's 3 PM... not 3 attacks...

Jamie.


----------



## Bel03 (Oct 12, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Flanders199... I think that's 3 PM... not 3 attacks...
> 
> Jamie.



Perhaps they read the other posts wrong also.......'1st stoney' posted a few pages into this thread that their dog had attacked 3 other dogs. (they have since been removed from this site i just noticed)


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2011)

Oh Ok...

J


----------



## nonamesleft (Oct 12, 2011)

Glad to hear your getting your pooch back, the people on the "Ban the Breed" media band wagon sure do stand out, really *****s me.

Despite the obvious, good result KaotikJezta


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

He's home, he's still a little freaked out and has curled up in his kennel. Will take some photos later on when he's settled back in. Big thanks to DHoffman for driving me and so sorry my house was such a mess when you came, bit embarassing, lol. Apparently my spotted python escaped while we were away, my flatmate found him chilling on the lounge.


----------



## Smithers (Oct 12, 2011)

Great to hear he's home in his own bed  and you can now get a good nights rest too.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Smithers said:


> Great to hear he's home in his own bed  and you can now get a good nights rest too.



And clean my house, haha


----------



## Wally (Oct 12, 2011)

Life may seem a little mundane after the whirlwind of a week you've obviously had. Great to hear he's home.


----------



## Chris1 (Oct 12, 2011)

yay!! great to hear hes home!


----------



## eitak (Oct 12, 2011)

Beard said:


> And the dirt is gone



Or in this case - bam and the troll is gone!!


----------



## euphorion (Oct 12, 2011)

Welcome home little man! 

Very pleased for you


----------



## DHoffmann (Oct 12, 2011)

KaotikJezta said:


> He's home, he's still a little freaked out and has curled up in his kennel. Will take some photos later on when he's settled back in. Big thanks to DHoffman for driving me and so sorry my house was such a mess when you came, bit embarassing, lol. Apparently my spotted python escaped while we were away, my flatmate found him chilling on the lounge.


My Pleasure, just glad I could help. Mess is no worry when it comes to the welfare of our animals, and it was great to see him home safe and sound.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

DHoffmann said:


> My Pleasure, just glad I could help. Mess is no worry when it comes to the welfare of our animals, and it was great to see him home safe and sound.


Thank you, I was so worried about the mess I forgot to show you the albino and het that were right under the CND's, haha


----------



## mad_at_arms (Oct 12, 2011)

Yay for KJ!!
Doing some of this (to the system that tried to bring us down) on the inside.


















(replace chicken bits for Kaeleb)


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Lol

Forgot to mention, on the drive home I notice a nick out of his ear so seems the little dogs must have snapped and bitten his ear. I know from ages ago when my oldest dog got into there yard (Chinese Crested) when they first moved in, they were fine and all of a sudden his dog snapped at Jezta and he told me he can be a bit funny with other dogs. At least now there is some explanation as to why it went the way it did.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 12, 2011)

Great news KJ! So glad it worked out... now to make sure it never has the chance of happening again !

Give him a squeeze for us!

Jamie


----------



## Wild~Touch (Oct 12, 2011)

Yeah give the boy a big hug from me too.

Stand up for the one you love


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Here are a few quick pics, will get some better ones tomorrow and start a new thread:


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Oct 12, 2011)

So glad he,s home..Now that fence....


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 12, 2011)

Yep, gotta buy the stuff Wednesday and then up it goes.


----------



## GeckoRider (Oct 12, 2011)

Congrats on getting him back


----------



## Fantazmic (Oct 12, 2011)

This is excellent news such a happy ending.


----------



## kawasakirider (Oct 12, 2011)

Congrats, it's great you got your pal back.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks everyone, have started a new thread with pictures:
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/animals-5363/kaeleb-like-say-thank-171923/


----------



## DexterFan (Oct 13, 2011)

Glad your dog's home. His unhappy experience opened a can of worms, didn't it? What a bunch of opinionated people-I love it!!!!Great to read what everyone thinks. Enjoy your friend, all the best.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks DexterFan


----------



## Lesa (Oct 14, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> hey KJ! Hope all goes well today!!
> 
> Ajandj, while it was unfortunate what happened to you in your case, every dog is different. Not long after we bought our Aussie bulldog home he attacked our Jack Russell, they were both full males and battled it out one day when we werent home. Our poor little fella nearly died, it turned out that he had only been bitten once but as Blocka weighed 40kgs it was enough to do serious damage. we got him fixed up and desexed to try and calm the situation.
> we ended up rehoming him because even after he was desexed he still thought he was the big man around the house and continued to stir up Blocka trying to start fights. Blocka never went near him again.
> ...



You "rehomed" (ie. got rid of) your old dog to make room for the new.... I think that's the saddest story I've read in this whole thread!!!!


----------



## marcmarc (Oct 14, 2011)

Flanders199 said:


> Seriously....this is bad ownership i feel no sympathy for you anymore, that's just ridiculous!
> 
> Through the first 8 pages i really did feel sorry for you but after i read that it's had 3 attacks, that's ridiculous! How does that happen, sorry if it seems like i'm attacking you but i've personally been attacked on 2 different occasions from dogs not being kept under control due to poor ownership and it would break me in half if someones dog killed mine because of slack ownership!



It pays to read an entire thread's contents properly before offering such a strong opinion, doesn't it. 
I'm glad to see things turned out for you K.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks marcmarc, I've started some retraining ahead of the behaviourist coming and he is so much easier to work with now. Things that took him ages to learn and obey before he does in a snap. He is so calm and willing to do what I want so maybe the week away did him some good. On the downside, I think he has picked up kennel cough and he is riddled with fleas and the recurring ear mites I thought he had is a yeast allergy/infection. So slight change of diet (pretty much confirmed my suspicion that he was allergic to corn), lots of nice healthy immune boosting food and warm olive oil and lemon ear drops and some recuperation and he'll be back to normal in no time.


----------



## MissFuller (Oct 19, 2011)

that has 2 be the best news been following the fred for awial i have asberguse sorry 4 the spelling tho im interested 2 know where u stand n wat u think about the bsl and if you are for it id like to know why


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 19, 2011)

jesus said:


> that has 2 be the best news been following the fred for awial i have asberguse sorry 4 the spelling tho im interested 2 know where u stand n wat u think about the bsl and if you are for it id like to know why


Thanks and I am totally opposed to BSL


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 19, 2011)

Ah damned fleas... our dogs rarely leave our 100 acres (vets & occasional outings) but fleas are often a consequence of going where other dogs are. Great to hear that things are smoothing out for you KJ  

What's BSL?

Jamie


----------



## KaotikJezta (Oct 19, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Ah damned fleas... our dogs rarely leave our 100 acres (vets & occasional outings) but fleas are often a consequence of going where other dogs are. Great to hear that things are smoothing out for you KJ
> 
> What's BSL?
> 
> Jamie



Thanks Jamie, just bought the fence stuff so that is next on the list. BSL is Breed Specific Legislation.


----------

