# Culling Camels



## Rhaenys (Nov 10, 2011)

It all started out with this article: Thousands of camels culled in the Northern Territory - Australian GeographicThere was a whole bunch of people commenting about how cruel it was and how it was a "Damn disgrace".. I decided to jump right on in there with this:



> Just to clear some stuff up - that article for one is ridiculously biased. These Camels are wild animals, meaning they've probably never had any human contact before. Could you imagine the stress it would cause them to be 'humanely' wrangled, tossed onto a big truck, shipped off to an abattoir and forced down a raceway to their 'humane' death, all the while being able to smell the blood and hear the distress of the camels in front of them? And who is he to say that they were wasted? Their carcasses are being returned to the Australian environment. Those carcasses would serve as food for so many animals! I think he's just cranky cause he didn't make any profit out of exploiting them. Australia has the worst extinction record on the planet because of introduced species. While it is sad that these animals have to be killed through no fault of their own, people should understand that it's got to be done to preserve what we've got left.



Then I got called an names for supporting animal cruelty 
Since then the discussion has died down - but I'm still fired up. What are your views on this



This one was a doozy


> I agree with the station owner, it's cruel! If it was whales or dogs and cats there would be an uproar!


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## viciousred (Nov 10, 2011)

I think its necessary. Its unfortunate that they have to be killed, but its the way it is, we introduced them, and now we have to clean up the mess. 
And I agree, Being caught and shipped off to be slaughtered would cause an awful lot of stress, and if a few don't die instantly, its still better than all of them being completely terrified for hours and hours before they get killed. Not to mention the man power it would require to round them all up! 
In the end you have to weigh up the situation, cull one species, or loose a hundred...?


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## marcmarc (Nov 10, 2011)

I'm with you on this one.


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## mattyg (Nov 10, 2011)

unfortunate but necessary.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

Now that would be a good size leg roast


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## Ambush (Nov 10, 2011)

Don't like it.But has to be done. Indian Mynah is an example of the destruction of our native animals. Has to be removed.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

I love that last comment you put in, obviously that person has no clue that feral dogs and cats ARE killed :lol:


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## hugsta (Nov 10, 2011)

Interesting reference to whales and cats and dogs and there being an uproar. I mean, if it were feral goats, rabbits and foxes people wouldn't care as much either as they are feral animals. No different to camels.


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## -Katana- (Nov 10, 2011)

A man made problem that requires a man made solution.


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## Rhaenys (Nov 10, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> I love that last comment you put in, obviously that person has no clue that feral dogs and cats ARE killed :lol:



Hahah it was the first comment posted and it had a couple of likes on it as well!!
I couldn't believe it xD biggest facepalm on earth. 

A lady said that all life is sacred and that there's other ways... but really? I'd like to see someone actually come up with an alternative rather than just blast the people who are trying to control them now.


We have a lot of issues here at the uni with people studying Equine and the whole topic of culling the brumbies. There was a petition sent around by a few people to stop it - but like Akwendi said it's a man made problem and it needs to be fixed. That along with culling bats because of Hendra virus, now that's a whole new topic in itself. Very controversial!


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## hugsta (Nov 10, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> A man made problem that requires a man made solution.



Too true, so to solve the problem, shoot the whingers and grizzlers and then shoot the camels. No one will complain at all then.


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## GeckPhotographer (Nov 10, 2011)

God some people don't understand the devastation wrecked by introduced animals on the country. I believe the main problem with culling wild horses was that when it was attempted in Guy Fawkes NP in NSW, there was an uproar that the animals were believed to be direct descendants of culturally important horses that were used to fight in war times. DNA eventually proved they weren't but not before the RSPCA got the government to say that no horse in NSW would be legally shot again. This turned around in the end because the main method of euthanasia for horses used to be a shot to the head.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

Its simple isnt it, if all life is sacred the other way is that you ask the camels politely to stop destroying our ecosystems. They'll do that right?


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## Rhaenys (Nov 10, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> God some people don't understand the devastation wrecked by introduced animals on the country. I believe the main problem with culling wild horses was that when it was attempted in Guy Fawkes NP in NSW, there was an uproar that the animals were believed to be direct descendants of culturally important horses that were used to fight in war times. DNA eventually proved they weren't but not before the RSPCA got the government to say that no horse in NSW would be legally shot again. This turned around in the end because the main method of euthanasia for horses used to be a shot to the head.



How is that even grounds to not shoot them in the first place? I'm sure there are more culturally significant things left over from a war than a couple of "maybe descendants" from war horses. The again I couldn't shoot a horse myself :/ ...I support it, but definitely couldn't do it.



snakeynewbie said:


> Its simple isnt it, if all life is sacred the other way is that you ask the camels politely to stop destroying our ecosystems. They'll do that right?



I wish the cane toads would do that


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

Get rid of all the camels. Then the horses.

Maybe our wildlife will have a shot at recovering. Damn cafe late mob will never get their shoes dirty up here seeing what is actually happening. They seem to think these are some sort of fluffy toys that float around looking cute. Get a grip.

A camel can drink 100 litres in a single sitting. In a desert!! What do you think that leaves for the locals? The bigger guys like red roos and emus can travel to a distant water source but not the smaller guys. This is why we have the worst record in the world for medium sized mammal extinctions. 

Horses drink a lot too but worst of all when they are dying they like to lie down in water, fouling it for anything else needing to drink there.

Death to the ferals, the whole rotten lot!


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## BrownHash (Nov 10, 2011)

I see it as an unfurtunate necessity. In the long run culling camels will benifit the native animal and plant populations. Those people that don't want these things to happen should foot the environmental bill of having feral animals like the camels wondering around. They should be the ones paying for the conservation efforts in the areas affected.

Also, I see making a profit from the process as benificial. This is because it gives an incentive for its continuation. Nobody is going to want to have tax payers money spent on something that could possible support itself economically. To get people out there culling these animals cost money, why not make it worth while.

Another thing +1 to what SteveNT said.


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## saximus (Nov 10, 2011)

I can't see the comments section (either because I am meant to register or the uni computers just suck) but the commenters just sound like typical "activist" hippies. They have never spent time in the real world and if it were up to them we'd all be living in mud huts eating nuts and berries and being "one with the land". You're never going to change their minds because, like Steve said, you will never get them out there to see what is actually going on


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## Rhaenys (Nov 10, 2011)

saximus said:


> I can't see the comments section (either because I am meant to register or the uni computers just suck) but the commenters just sound like typical "activist" hippies. They have never spent time in the real world and if it were up to them we'd all be living in mud huts eating nuts and berries and being "one with the land". You're never going to change their minds because, like Steve said, you will never get them out there to see what is actually going on



Oh it was on a group thing on facebook, someone had shared it xP
YES!! This is the problem with all of these 'animal-loving' people... they never, ever see the big picture. 
It makes me so mad. And even after I posted some reason into their grizzling I was shut down!
I study this stuff for a living, this is my life's passion - while they sit back with a cup of tea and tell me I support animal cruelty because I think camels should be culled :evil:


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## Jeannine (Nov 10, 2011)

*like it or not culling off all over populated animals, regardless if they are rabbits, foxes, etc is necessary 

people dont realise if you dont cull they will run out of food and starve to death anyway, so which is the better option?

same as its necessary to cull roo's or would they rather see animals starving to death?

besides arent some of those camels exported to Arab countries because of their purity? 
*


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

I beleive so jeannine. But as with brumbied it would come down to which ones are suitable for breaking, if they dont nhave the temperament to be broken and trained they are useless as an export


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## outbackstorm (Nov 10, 2011)

Very interesting thread and some very interesting dicussion. I am very passionate about feral animals and their removal and working within Landcare have inner knowledge of certain things. One such interesting thing is with the newly passed Carbon Tax camels are in a bit of a difficult situation. See Camels produce methane and methane is a greenhouse gas, so by killing camels you will be saving methane being released into the atmosphere, hence slowing climate change/global warming. Currently there are methodologies being developed so that people can get paid to shoot camels to avoid their production of methane.
From studies it is shown that in the wild camels live to be approx 30 years old which puts the average age to be 15, if a camel is shot it is expected to be an average of 15 years old hence you are saving 15 years worth of methane. roughly this equates to approx $300+ for shooting a camel under the carbon tax. The idea is that it becomes a commercial enterprise for aerial shooters and camels are exterminated. Sounds good in theory!


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

Here here. 

The Indigenous Rangers I work with generated a million dollars last year as carbon offset. This is achieved through applying early Dry season burning which, as shown by rigorous scientific scrutiny, reduces greatly (and measurably ) the amount of carbon released opposed to a late Dry season (massive fuel load) burn. When you consider 1/3 of the NT burns every year this is a significant outcome. 

The revenue in turn pays for full time Rangers which is a rare and highly regarded employment outcome in remote Communities. It also allows the Rangers (and thus the Community) to do imporant resource management, conservation programs and cultural recording and protection work. The Rangers themselves are directed by a committee of Elders from their region and they have full Community support. 

Many of our Ranger groups have become independant of Govt funding now and have contracts with Fisheries, Parks & Wildlife, Customs, Quarantine, mining and pastoral companies, research organisations and so on.

If shooting farting ferals can generate income that is another string in their bow, and gets what needs to be done, actually done. Helicopters, fuel and ammo are not cheap.


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## slim6y (Nov 10, 2011)

It's funny, no one seems to kick up a fuss when they kill several million locust... 

The billions of flies that are sprayed needlessly to death....

Would love to see Australia (and other countries) get rid of all their ferals. I agree 100% with SteveNT because liking just wasn't enough!


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## kat2005dodi (Nov 10, 2011)

The issue here is introduced species. Who introduced these species?????? HUMANITY!! Maybe we are the problem!


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

kat2005dodi said:


> The issue here is introduced species. Who introduced these species?????? HUMANITY!! Maybe we are the problem!



maybe?


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## solar 17 (Nov 10, 2011)

Here in QLD. a private company has been given the rights to use a mobile abbattoirs for feral horses, so they are shot but then processed in the mobile setup and nearly all the meat recycled for different purposes at least this way there is no waste.
........solar 17 (Baden)


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

Yep that's good where you have access to refrigeration. 

It's just not realistic (except near all weather roads) with the vast distances here. The Wet season cuts ALL roads here to varying degrees and that makes the human consumption/ pet meat trade seasonal. It is difficult to find seasonal workers with the skills required for this line of work.

I'm not in favour of waste either but you have to be realistic about this. In 90% of culls here it is not viable to collect the carcasses.


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## AUSHERP (Nov 10, 2011)

I always find it interesting that we can commit these sort of atrocities against animals under the banner of preservation and need but to cleanse the land of an unwanted group of humans that are seen by many to be wrecking our country is a hate crime or racism? 
What do they do with the dead camels?


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

They leave them there as food for the scavengers, plenty of well fed scavenger birds and monitors around there i reckon


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

??????


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

Yeah i just ignored the weird racial stuff and answered the question. :lol:


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> They leave them there as food for the scavengers, plenty of well fed scavenger birds and monitors around there i reckon



Fear not, not a molecule of those culled animals goes to waste. The nearby animals, plants and even the soil get benefit from the body. Nutrient recycling.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

Thats my theory too, even when my kids pet rabbit died of old age they asked where he would go now and i told them he would go into the soilto make the earth more beautiful, i think its a lovely way to think of death.


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## SteveNT (Nov 10, 2011)

And it's true. There are , in all probability, molecules that once were part of a dinosaur in your body now.

Water, minerals, biology it's recycled. I find that good and proper.

I'd love to know what amazing creatures my molecules will be part of 20 million years from now!


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## Rhaenys (Nov 10, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Thats my theory too, even when my kids pet rabbit died of old age they asked where he would go now and i told them he would go into the soilto make the earth more beautiful, i think its a lovely way to think of death.



That's beautiful


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 10, 2011)

Friends of mine who are christian think its sad that i dont believe in heaven and a life after death, etc but i think knowing that evrything around us is as beautiful as it is because of all of those animals and plants who lived before us is much nicer.


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## Rhaenys (Nov 11, 2011)

I couldn't agree more


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## SteveNT (Nov 11, 2011)

They set themselves apart from the world. They believe they are "chosen" and "special"and "right".

They are wrong. On all counts

But that's their business.

I just want to see this country restored to health. 

To do that we need to cull camels, horses, donkeys, goats, rabbits, etc, etc

Let's deal with the ferals first. Then we can do the philosophical naval gazing exercise.


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## Rhaenys (Nov 11, 2011)

Ha, kind of amusing that that was your 666th post Steve! :lol:


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## DeadCricket (Nov 11, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Too true, so to solve the problem, shoot the whingers and grizzlers and then shoot the camels. No one will complain at all then.



Shoot ALL the humans and this planet lives happily ever after


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## Kitah (Nov 11, 2011)

DeadCricket said:


> Shoot ALL the humans and this planet lives happily ever after



only after the ferals are shot first... try and reverse some of the damage we've done first


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## Jeannine (Nov 11, 2011)

*wouldnt the hundreds of cows we have here produce as much, if not more, methane then camels? so should we go around and shot all the cows while were at it?*


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## -Katana- (Nov 11, 2011)

Because Steak is my favorite animal.


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## slim6y (Nov 11, 2011)

Jeannine said:


> *wouldnt the hundreds of cows we have here produce as much, if not more, methane then camels? so should we go around and shot all the cows while were at it?*


''

Not just cows but agriculture in general. 

Anyway - we're trying to kill the cows and we're disposing of their bodies thoughtfully, on the BBQ. It just appears there's too many tasty tasty cows.... And they just keep reproducing more and more tasty offspring.

Never tried camel - I assume it's semi palatable.

I have an idea... We should release lions to control the camels!


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## -Katana- (Nov 11, 2011)

slim6y said:


> ''
> 
> Not just cows but agriculture in general.
> 
> ...



But only if we could train them to eat those truly obnoxious American tourists as well.


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## slim6y (Nov 11, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> But only if we could train them to eat those truly obnoxious American tourists as well.



You'll need to import cougar/mountain lion for that.


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## outbackstorm (Nov 11, 2011)

Jeannine said:


> *wouldnt the hundreds of cows we have here produce as much, if not more, methane then camels? so should we go around and shot all the cows while were at it?*



Indeed they would produce more, but at this stage, cows are producing a resource essential for human survival. Never fear though, some cow breed produce less methane than others and under particular management regimes produce less again, there are methodologies being developed along these lines too. Also methane capture off piggeries is being worked on.
It is a shame that cane toads/ carp/ indian myna etc dont produce methane so that we could get paid to remove them too!


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 11, 2011)

Just start eating more roo and that will help immensely. Low methane production, very lean and high in iron. Its the ultimate meat if you ask me, hence why i enjoy it as often as possible


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## waruikazi (Nov 11, 2011)

AUSHERP said:


> I always find it interesting that we can commit these sort of atrocities against animals under the banner of preservation and need but to cleanse the land of an unwanted group of humans that are seen by many to be wrecking our country is a hate crime or racism?
> What do they do with the dead camels?



I find it interesting that you can't fathom the difference between animals and people. 

Please, if you are genuine about your feelings, be the first to give up your home and return it to the ecosystem, give up all processed materials, medicine and your computer! It's not a hate crime if you start with yourself...


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## -Katana- (Nov 11, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Just start eating more roo and that will help immensely. Low methane production, very lean and high in iron. Its the ultimate meat if you ask me, hence why i enjoy it as often as possible



Truth!

The local supermarket sells a line of kangaroo sausages that I first blanch in boiling water for a few moments and then place into a casserole dish and cover with Passata Di _Pomodoro Rustica_ and mozzarella cheese. Bake in the oven until the sauce is bubbling and the cheese is beautifully molten.

Fabulous with a Shiraz and lots of crusty bread.


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## SteveNT (Nov 12, 2011)

felidae said:


> Ha, kind of amusing that that was your 666th post Steve! :lol:



Thanx for the heads up.! had no idea I was so satanical!
What is the true significance of post 665 and 667?


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Was thinking that its almost a pity we couldnt find some way to put them on a ship amd send them over to areas currently suffering from famine, we already send some camels to the middle east to become beasts of burden, there are areas over there particulary in afghanistan where they are suffering through severe droughts and man people are facing starvation. A camel is a large animal with i can only imagine a pretty good a,ount of meat on it.


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

Comparing camels with whales? Big difference, whales are not introduced nor do they (at least to my understanding) cause severe environmental damage
The validity of their arguments is null the second someone said agriculture practices 
And yea they ARE eaten quite regularly in the middle eastern countries, why not here?
Free range protein source & environmental preservation? win-win 
better start making out a big flame pit and a bucket of marinade


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Id happily eat them but i have a regular supply of food here so they would not be of as much benefit to me as they would be to others


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## Rhaenys (Nov 12, 2011)

Yeah, imagine if Australia sent food for the hungry instead of soldiers, not that I know all that much about what's going on over there. It seems it would go a little futher :?


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Dont know that it ould make that much difference, the area suffering at the moment is in a fairly peaceful part of afghanistan, sadlyx for them it will be a tough winter without adequate food, temps of 10 degrees in lower areas and down to the minuses in the higher altitudes.


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## K3nny (Nov 12, 2011)

felidae said:


> Yeah, imagine if Australia sent food for the hungry instead of soldiers, not that I know all that much about what's going on over there. It seems it would go a little futher :?



actually pretty sure we have hungry people living just around the corner


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## Rhaenys (Nov 12, 2011)

K3nny said:


> actually pretty sure we have hungry people living just around the corner



Now that you mention it I'm actually pretty hungry right now. 
Brb, gonna go munch on a camel 8)


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## nikki84 (Nov 12, 2011)

I spent 2 weeks in the N.T. during july and the carcasses that are culled are used to make food for tour groups. I ate kangaroo steaks and camel sausages. YUM!


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Too true, but the question is would they eat camel. Sme peole wont open their minds even if its the best thing for them.


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## Rhaenys (Nov 12, 2011)

Not to mention first world vs third world solutions.

But this is definitely getting a bit out of my knowledge comfort zone.


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## SteveNT (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Was thinking that its almost a pity we couldnt find some way to put them on a ship amd send them over to areas currently suffering from famine, we already send some camels to the middle east to become beasts of burden, there are areas over there particulary in afghanistan where they are suffering through severe droughts and man people are facing starvation. A camel is a large animal with i can only imagine a pretty good a,ount of meat on it.



Hey cobber, I'm on the piss with a bunch of boys who just returned from Afghanistan. They're just boys, well trained and no shortage of guts but I hurt for the whole mob, It's an evil business when both sides put their kids in the firing line, but it has to be addressed and they are doing it.

Lest we forget.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 12, 2011)

My hubby is in the forces so its pretty close to home for us too. The thing that concerns me is that its already hard to raise money for food aid, etc how much harder must it be to raise money for a countrry that doesnt have the luxury of having the sympathy of much of the population.


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## Rhaenys (Nov 12, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> Hey cobber, I'm on the piss with a bunch of boys who just returned from Afghanistan. They're just boys, well trained and no shortage of guts but I hurt for the whole mob, It's an evil business when both sides put their kids in the firing line, but it has to be addressed and they are doing it.
> 
> Lest we forget.



Tell them they're doing a damn fine job,
I'm glad their families get them home for christmas. x


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## Darlyn (Nov 12, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Was thinking that its almost a pity we couldnt find some way to put them on a ship amd send them over to areas currently suffering from famine, we already send some camels to the middle east to become beasts of burden, there are areas over there particulary in afghanistan where they are suffering through severe droughts and man people are facing starvation. A camel is a large animal with i can only imagine a pretty good a,ount of meat on it.



The logistics and cost in moving these animals, be it as carcasses or live meat is ridiculous. We are taking 1000's of Km's in transportation. Be great if it was a logical solution, but at the end of the day they are using their common sense and getting rid of a feral pest.


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## JasonL (Nov 13, 2011)

Wild camels are just that, wild, and they are very large and generally not happy animals to work with, which makes them dangerous.... sending one anywhere costs a lot of money and man hours.... on the other hand a 308 bullet costs about 50 cents and takes less than a second to deploy.


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## snakeynewbie (Nov 13, 2011)

Yeah i know, hence why its a pity there isnt some simple way to do it... Sigh, just pipe dreaming about ways to solve all the worl issues


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## mysnakesau (Nov 14, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Interesting reference to whales and cats and dogs and there being an uproar. I mean, if it were feral goats, rabbits and foxes people wouldn't care as much either as they are feral animals. No different to camels.



That's it. And ppl are still releasing domestic rabbits into national parks without any concern for the poor rabbit, or the impact it can potentially cause.

I thought the same snakenewbie. I guess not everyone has heard of 1080.



JasonL said:


> Wild camels are just that, wild, and they are very large and generally not happy animals to work with, which makes them dangerous.... sending one anywhere costs a lot of money and man hours.... on the other hand a 308 bullet costs about 50 cents and takes less than a second to deploy.



And if done properly, no pain inflicted on the animal.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 14, 2011)

I used to think that animal liberationists were good people basically standing up for what they believe in. Experience has caused me to alter that view. I now see them as misguided zealots who will stop at virtually nothing to get their own way. They are savvy and have infiltrated the halls of power in order to further their own ends. Perhaps ‘rat cunning’ would be an appropriate simile. 

Donkeys, feral pigs, rabbits and kangaroos are all culled through shooting. With kangaroos this has been going on for over a century. So why is this suddenly cruel? Cattle, sheep and pigs are dispatched at the abattoir with a bullet. The numbers killed there are huge compared to culling. If those histrionically carrying on about cruelty to animals are really genuine, surely they should be trying to do something about slaughter houses first? Yhen again, maybe it makes for boring reading and it’s all been approved by animal ethics boards and govt. policy, so there is no percentage in beating it up.

... I reckon their arguments stink of methane!

We export a limited number of camels to the Middle East because ours are the healthiest camels on the globe. All are broken in before export, which only takes a day or two. We also export some wild caught horses, also broken in before they go.

Cows actually belch out more methane than fart it out. Around two-thirds to three-quarters comes out the front end.

Blue


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## mysnakesau (Nov 15, 2011)

I worked one day, in a rabbit abbitoir and was never asked to go back. I did my job well, and rang them every couple of days to find out if I could go there, they'd say they didn't have enough work. But I reckon they didn't ask me back because I was too sentiment as far as how the rabbits were treated. Their attitude was, "Who cares, they're only going to die anyway". My attitude was, "So, doesn't mean they have to be treated like that in the meantime." The guy unloading them from the trucks would grab four at a time, by the ears, and stand about 10ft away from where they were going, and throw them  There was that many in the pens they were sitting on top of each other and peeing on each other, and god knows what was happening in the culling room. One now and then would let a squeal out.


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 16, 2011)

I have broken in wild camels and was owner/operator of my own small tourism business for a while involving camel treks of varying duration, amazing animals with very distinct personalities. When I hear people say they stink and spit, I equate that to "the only good snake is a dead snake", just ignorance or parrot fashion repetetivness ,really.They have played a significant role in the past, both in exploration and transport, when nothing else would do (the original semi-trailer). And, although I know culling is the only appropriate action at this time, It still saddened me to see D-double load after D-double load pass through the city of Alice Springs on the way to the meat works.


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## SteveNT (Nov 16, 2011)

All the ferals (even toads) have endearing qualities but they are in the wrong part of the world. 

As I see it there are two options, 

Accept the redistribution of species worldwide, via the human agency, as a natural part of the evolutionary process and accept the inevitable displacement and extinction of some endemic species....or...

....do what is possible to protect the existing environment and the species evolved as integral parts of that environment from disruption and replacement by invasive species whose effect is clearly detrimental to the local biotas.

I choose the latter.


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 16, 2011)

I'm certainly an advocate for the latter, but I fear the former will be the more likely outcome. We seem to be very haphazard (?) about our solution to the whole situation, at best. I really wish there were a viable option for the Cane Toad, as my heart and soul belong to The Kimberley, but people are the ultimate determiners of what and when. It seems like removing indigenous populations from the land management equation (certainly in the Kimberley) is having just as much, if not more, detrimental impact than that posed by feral animals.


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## SteveNT (Nov 16, 2011)

Here here cobber. There will be action on toads when Canberra mob wake up to find their pet dog dead with a mangled toad nearby. 

The upside is that the frillies and the mertens monitors are staging comebacks. Most raptors and kingfisher mob seem to have learned to avoid them. Bhp numbers have definately boomed (they musn't eat them because their paths certainly do cross).

But the quolls are gone, the dwarf escarpment freshies are gone (there is no egg laying in the usual places, none!), king browns and western browns are hen's teeth these days. 

I kill the ferals as the opportunity presents itself, I get no joy in killing these animals, it's hardly their fault. However it is necessary to sort out our priorities and I know where mine lie.

I organise humane feral animal destruction and ariel culling training for Indigenous Rangers up here and their efforts will make a big difference to the impact on the country here by large ferals. If there is an abotoir within realistic reach the animals will be recycled. But there are so many of them and so widely dispersed that it is usually not viable to transport them.

But toads will take another solution entirely.


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## jedi_339 (Nov 16, 2011)

Has anyone heard of the research being done on the cane toad and genetic modification?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard they are trying to generically modify the males to produce only successive generations of males eventually trying to breed them out?

If this is happening and I've heard the rumors correctly it sounds like a very promising and hopefully effective method for either eradication or long term control

As for camels, I support culling all ferals and hope to become more involved in it soon 


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 16, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> I organise humane feral animal destruction and ariel culling training for Indigenous Rangers up here and their efforts will make a big difference to the impact on the country here by large ferals. If there is an abotoir within realistic reach the animals will be recycled. But there are so many of them and so widely dispersed that it is usually not viable to transport them.



I like it!! Perhaps you could send some trainers or some of the boys over to take care of all the Donkeys currently enjoying the laid- back Kimberley lifestyle?!


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## SteveNT (Nov 16, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> I like it!! Perhaps you could send some trainers or some of the boys over to take care of all the Donkeys currently enjoying the laid- back Kimberley lifestyle?!



That's a given as the Rangers gain experience. The issue of funding in the NT is becoming less of an issue because as the Rangers gain the necessary training and hands on time they become a commodity. There are several independant Ranger groups now and that is the aim with all of them. 

Our guys have contracts with customs, quarantine, military, mining, fisheries, pastoral, retail and research organisations. They are ideally located to respond to issues in remote Oz provided they have the training. That's my job.

And theirs!


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## hugsta (Nov 16, 2011)

I just realised this threa was still going, I haven't read it since my last post, so can anyone tell me if all the camels are dead yet? And if not, how come??


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2011)

SteveNT said:


> But the quolls are gone, the dwarf escarpment freshies are gone (there is no egg laying in the usual places, none!), king browns and western browns are hen's teeth these days.



Sorry to take this off topic Steve but i'm interested to hear your thoughts and experience on how toads and nuchalis interact. I never got into the feild with any gusto until my early 20's which was after the toads moved through my area, so i may have missed an initial drop in numbers. That said I've never seen a nuchalis that has eaten a toad and i think they are still in strong numbers across the toad effected areas. In all of my callouts and herping adventures they easily represent as the ven species with the highest encounters.

I've been wrong before about toads though. I've seen pictures (and the animal) of an NT tai that died after swallowing a toad right down to its stomach and (even though i never saw it and didn't beleive it) carpets will prey on toads.


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## SteveNT (Nov 17, 2011)

No first hand observations but Graeme Gow opened up a lot of dead ones and found a toad in most. We used to come across them very often (5 in an afternoon at Pollen Face Creek 1 day!) but they are a very rare sight these days. Black whips on the other hand seem a lot more common than they used to be.


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## waruikazi (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks Steve. 

Just looking at my little black book of herping, if i look for them which means going at the right time to the right place, i can easily find those kinds of numbers of nuchalis. Maybe the species has bounced back?

I tried earlier in the year to get the snake relocation data from parks for the last however long they have been keeping them, to look at drops in numbers after toads etc. But they had managed to lose ALL of that data.


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## SteveNT (Nov 17, 2011)

Let's face it, they never recorded the data in the first place!

I was stunned to discover that in the two Parks they have in the southern outcropping of the Depot Creek Sandstone (a region I have been exploring/ researching for 25 years), Umbrawarra Gorge and Butterfly Gorge, there has never been a single flora, fauna or cultural site survey undertaken in the 20+ years they have operated there!

And now they want to open the area up for a flood of unregulated tourists when they no idea what is even in the area.
They tried 10 years ago and I fought it up to ministerial level and I will do the same again. This zone is a critical dry season refuge for animals from the east (granite) and west (limestone) country which holds no water at all.


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## Firedrake (Nov 17, 2011)

Good luck Steve I really hope you can prevent the tourists from gaining access to places they really don't need to be. I hate the fact that every time we find an untouched place with rare or strange critters in it that we have to ruin it by advertising or letting people into it. The best way in my eyes to prevent distruction of habitat and the loss of beautiful places and creatures is to shut the hell up about it and leave it alone unless there are plans to destroy it already ie. mining or clearing for construction. Much as we think it's our God given right to go where we want and see everything, it simply isn't and I think people need to start realizing this. There are some things that should just be left alone.

On the subject of culling, I think it's sad but necessary. These animals should not be here and as cute as most of them are they need to be controlled. I love animals but feral ones destroy the habitats of many more native critters that don't live anywhere else in the world and they need to be protected. The fact that they do recycle some of the culls is just a bonus, and the ones that can't make it for human or canine consumption are still doing their jobs out in the bush feeding natives and the earth.


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## SteveNT (Nov 17, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> Truth!
> 
> The local supermarket sells a line of kangaroo sausages that I first blanch in boiling water for a few moments and then place into a casserole dish and cover with Passata Di _Pomodoro Rustica_ and mozzarella cheese. Bake in the oven until the sauce is bubbling and the cheese is beautifully molten.
> 
> Fabulous with a Shiraz and lots of crusty bread.



Thanks cobber! I love macropod but never worked the snags out. Goodonya!


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