# Discriminated @ Pet Store Over Buying Mice



## toximac (Mar 9, 2010)

My Bf went to buy some mice, at a inner city pet store, and asked for female mice TODAY, this is what happened *In script form*


_(My Bf walks into the store, looking at mice, and approaches a woman with short blonde hair and pink streaks)_

BF: Hi could I buy these 4 females, and one male? _(points to enclosure)
_
PET STORE WOMAN: What do you want them for?

BF: To breed them.

PET STORE WOMAN: _(she smiles and casually asks)_ For snakes?

BF: Yep

PET STORE WOMAN: I can't sell them to you, its illegal to sell them to you, I wouldn't do that

BF: Oh, Im just breeding them, not feeding them at all.

PET STORE WOMAN: It doesn't matter

PET STORE WOMAN: The worming medication and mite spray will stay in the mouse and off spring for 6 months.

BF: Thats no Concern, I just want these mice.

PET STORE WOMAN: Im sorry I cant sell them to you _(smiles sycastically)_

Theres another shop down the road that sells mice that are alive for feeding.

Im only thinking of the interest of the animals.

BF: Your only thinking from your ignorance.

Key Point : He was buying mice for breeding, a Pet Store Owner shouldn't discriminate him just because he owns snakes and deny his purchase over breeding them.

QUESTIONS:


1. Do you think its Logical for her to not sell them to my Boyfriend just because some of the offspring may be used as food at some point down the track?

2. If this is happened to you, let me know by posting on this thread & what the resolution was.


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## Poggle (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok well i do believe it sounds like she is discriminating, and really it is her job to just sell the mice. Although in some cases they are being asked to ask if being fed as some of the products on the mice will kill the snakes. 

Even so she had told him, there for he had been informed and still wanted to buy. I really dont understand as to why she wouldnt after that point.


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## JAS101 (Mar 9, 2010)

just go buy some somewhere else  i wouldnt even bother wasting any time thinking about "the pet shop in question "


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## schizmz (Mar 9, 2010)

She just doesnt like snakes by the sounds of it....


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## aprice (Mar 9, 2010)

To me it sounded like she wouldn't sell the mice as they have been recently treated for mites, and if fed to snakes this can be toxic. I'd like to know that if I were buying mice...


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## Radar (Mar 9, 2010)

schizmz said:


> She just doesnt like snakes by the sounds of it....



This made me laugh.....so many of them....

I don't tell the shops what Im buying them for. Don't give them any info and they can't discriminate.


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## grimbeny (Mar 9, 2010)

aprice said:


> To me it sounded like she wouldn't sell the mice as they have been recently treated for mites, and if fed to snakes this can be toxic. I'd like to know that if I were buying mice...



It was me that went to the pet shop. The problem was not that these mice could have insecticides because i asserted to her that the mice i was buying would not be fed to the snakes but that apparently the offspring of these mice will be forever tainted by the insecticides because it flows from milk to offspring. This was her claim. According to her once the mouse has been treated you cant then breed them for snake food....


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## morgs202 (Mar 9, 2010)

Having worked in pet shops, I'd say shes being an idiot. If some derelict bogan came in to me and asked for live mice for snake food ( which happened quite a lot, usually followed by the idiotic 'hurhurhur' laugh), I'd explain they were mite sprayed ect ect. If someone came in wanting to by breeders so the offspring could be frozen and fed off down the track, then I can't see why this should be a problem!


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## Sel (Mar 9, 2010)

I guess its good to know if they have been treated etc, but really, she has no right to ask you what you want them for...its none of her business

Its like cucumbers...its not our business what people want them for


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## JrFear (Mar 9, 2010)

Hahahaa Tox thats funny!

I work in a pet shop and im told by my manager i cant sell live mice for food or n e other animal eg: quail!
in all honesty i dnt care i have costomers come in and are like can i have 10 mice yeah sure! 
then i ask what type of snakes they have and they just laugh and ask how i knew!!!
but yet ill still sell them to him!


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## morgs202 (Mar 9, 2010)

Main reason we were careful (other than the cruelty factor) was that we had an incident of a customers snake dying from live food, and they were back in the shop in quick order demanding we pay for a new snake ect ect. Really not worth it, but I'm out of that industry now, so I no longer have to worry!


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 9, 2010)

morgs202 said:


> Main reason we were careful (other than the cruelty factor) was that we had an incident of a customers snake dying from live food, and they were back in the shop in quick order demanding we pay for a new snake ect ect. Really not worth it, but I'm out of that industry now, so I no longer have to worry!


How did it die from live food?


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## Joemal (Mar 9, 2010)

I had the same problem at one of the local pet shops here .The snot nose upstart told me they do not sell rats/ mice for snakes and then started to give me a lecture on feeding rodents to snakes .Asked him why they had a tank full of feeder fish and he couldn't answer the question .Called him a clown and walked out and went to another pet shop that had no dramas selling me the rats .


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 9, 2010)

They dont have to do business with you if they dont want to.
I never tell them its for feeding, i always use my nephews or nieces as an alibi.


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## morgs202 (Mar 9, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> How did it die from live food?


 
Mite spray I'm pretty certain. We'd had an argument with the boss about mite spray being toxic. Boss claimed it wasn't, we said it was. Then this incident occured, we rang the company who supplied the spray, and they confirmed that yes it was toxic, for at least ten days after application


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## pythonmum (Mar 9, 2010)

I just walk into my favourite pet store and ask for an ugly, smelly mouse. They know what it is for and sell to me. I buy fresh when they are cheaper than frozen and I kill them before feeding. Tried to get one in the mall petstore once and they wouldn't sell it. Idiots.​


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## matt86 (Mar 9, 2010)

So a pet store can sell you frozen mice/rats, but they aren't happy to sell you live ones so you can breed your own supply... what a joke...

Some people just aren't worth the time or effort... clearly she/her manager was an idiot.

It is inhumane to live feed, and dangerous for the snake, but there is no legal/ethical issue in breeding mice or rats for the purpose of feeding them to snakes - you just co2 them and freeze them first.

Lol :lol:


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## richardsc (Mar 9, 2010)

i dont think its bad for shops to not sell u mice for snakes,you have to understand they are a pet shop,to some shops u might as well ask to buy puppies for snake food,i say good on the shop,least it shows they care about the well being of there stock,i would have just gone up the road and thanked said shop for the info


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## toximac (Mar 9, 2010)

Sel said:


> she has no right to ask you what you want them for...)


 Your right, and on those grounds she discriminated my bf! If someone asked at coles what are you using those condoms for, she'd be fired instantly, but pet stores have this power to judge a person and discriminate... similar to the cucumber example you made , lol ridiculous.



JrFear said:


> I work in a pet shop and im told by my manager i cant sell live mice for food or n e other animal eg: quail!!


These people shouldn't manage pet stores. Im not the kind thats gonna walk away and forget it, I was waiting all day for mice and this woman... *edited* lmao ...Im going back.



Poggle said:


> y. I really don't understand as to why she wouldnt after that point.


Me either, whatever happened to the customer is always right. 



ssssnakeman said:


> They dont have to do business with you if they dont want to.
> I never tell them its for feeding, i always use my nephews or nieces as an alibi.


Isn't there some kinda regulation to sell to ALL people, not just children who look like they'll keep it as a cuddley pet?Cause I feel I have to do that too!! lol Bring a kid in and say its for him or Lie, I shouldnt have to.. its like ageist....like Sexism or Racism.


morgs202 said:


> Mite spray I'm pretty certain. We'd had an argument with the boss about mite spray being toxic. Boss claimed it wasn't, we said it was. Then this incident occured, we rang the company who supplied the spray, and they confirmed that yes it was toxic, for at least ten days after application


I had a friend ring a company too and they said the same thing. Why isn't this studied so we know what agents last on rats/and what to steer clear from that have LONG TERM EFFECTS, I haven't heard of one that lasts more than 6 months/ Or heard of one that effects their babies in a chemical way so you cant feed em off / a myth


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## toximac (Mar 9, 2010)

matt86 said:


> It is inhumane to live feed, and dangerous for the snake, but there is no legal/ethical issue in breeding mice or rats for the purpose of feeding them to snakes - you just co2 them and freeze them first.
> 
> Lol :lol:


Exactly, spot on.



richardsc said:


> i dont think its bad for shops to not sell u mice for snakes,you have to understand they are a pet shop,to some shops u might as well ask to buy puppies for snake food,i say good on the shop,least it shows they care about the well being of there stock,i would have just gone up the road and thanked said shop for the info



The sales person has no right to deny his sale for breeding them. If she wants to reject him based on his stance as a reptile keeper then thats discrimination. Why would you thank someone if they told you to go down the road, even if it was the shop next door Id Be offended their rejecting my sale for no legitimate reason, and I wanted THOOSE mice and he couldn't get them.


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## chondrogreen (Mar 9, 2010)

In all fairness I think you will find that these people are just doing as their employer has instructed.
There are plenty of petshops with the same view. Ignorance? perhaps but it there shop to do as they please.

Also I agree with it to an extent as the hobby expands daily we don't want the young & naive feeding live.
However buying them to breed for future fodder should be acceptable, can't see what the prob there was except she was just doing as she was told (although a bit anal).


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## jdwango (Mar 9, 2010)

Mate, $20 says if you did go buy those mice, and your snake did die for whatever reason you'd be kicking up a stink on here that the shop killed your snake! 
I seriously think the shop attendant was covering all bases so she doesn't have any possible dramas like the one I just mentioned.
At least she was courteous enough to point you in the right direction of a shop that would sell you live mice for breeding/ future feeding.
Just my opinion trying to be positive about the situation.


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## noidea (Mar 9, 2010)

Some pet stores here in bris have paperwork you have to fill out to purchase a mouse/rat. Basically a contract saying you won't hurt or use as food for another animal at all. Has to do with the RSPCA animal cruelty act or something. What I cant understand is how are they to know what you do with it once you get home..... are they going to come visit????


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## townsvillepython (Mar 9, 2010)

i've been knocked back from buying live rats, funny thing was the same person was having a sook about me buying frozen one...... I just told her that kittens give my snakes gas paid and walked out (ps I dont feed them cats LOL)


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## kavsreptiles (Mar 9, 2010)

*baha*

thats gold!!!!!!!


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## cosmicwolf4 (Mar 9, 2010)

In South Australia they have to ask if they are being used as snake food. I was asked this in Pets Paradise at Marion when I went to get mine. I said no they were for breeding the food and not for the actual food.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Mar 9, 2010)

gotta love the pet shop where i go to get my rats no questions asked as most the people who work there own snakes so all is good


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## GSXR_Boy (Mar 9, 2010)

So what is in the cans of dog or cat food that they sell? Couldn't possibly be another animal could it? What is the difference?


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## milli (Mar 9, 2010)

Hi there, 
i work in an aquarium shop and we sell frozen mice but we are unable by rspca law to sell live mice , but they should have explained this to him better .when we explain it to people they understand ,the only way around it would be not to metion the snake if they dont know that they are for food then they cant say no. :lol:


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## cosmicwolf4 (Mar 9, 2010)

I think their concern is not that they are being used as food, it's that they may be live fed to snakes


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## Zoltag (Mar 9, 2010)

milli said:


> Hi there,
> i work in an aquarium shop and we sell frozen mice but we are unable by rspca law to sell live mice , but they should have explained this to him better .when we explain it to people they understand ,the only way around it would be not to metion the snake if they dont know that they are for food then they cant say no. :lol:



I've had the same explanation from a well known reptile store here in Sydney. They operate a "dont ask, dont tell" policy and if someone tells, they have to refuse to sell them the animals.


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## Jasspa (Mar 9, 2010)

It is against the Animal Welfare Act for live animals (other than fish and insects) to be fed to snakes. So the pet shop is just protecting itself in that area... However, they should sell the mice if they are going to be bred and properly (humanely) killed prior to feeding. After all there is no difference between pet mice and the mice in their freezer.
The pet shop staff can refuse the sale if the animals welfare is a stake, but in your case, I think she was just being an arrogant snake hater 
I personally wouldn't want to sell to someone knowing that they would feed it live, not for the mouses sake, but the snakes... I've seen some horrible bite marks and infections from a mouse bite on a snake... 
But like I said... she's just an arrogant snake hater...


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## BJC-787 (Mar 9, 2010)

it is up to the shop who they sell to and they don't have to sell them to you, also for all vertebrates they have to keep a animals sold register with your name, adress and phone number.
i work in a pet shop and i have no problem selling them for breeding for food.


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## bundysnake (Mar 9, 2010)

i had the same issue as the original poster, the store asked what i wanted them for and i said breeding and they refused to sell them to me. I went back to the same store one week later and the same lady asked me the same question and my reply was "they are pets for my kids, can i please have 3 females and 1 male" she replied with "no problems". 

Hahaha i think that is just hilarious.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 9, 2010)

So what happens if you have no option but to feed live (the snake is refusing frozen)
I know that you can legally do it if the snake will die if not fed but how can you if its illegal to buy it live?


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## Jasspa (Mar 9, 2010)

Buying it is not the illegal part, its the actual feeding live part that is illegal. The exception is there that if the snake will die if it is not fed live food.

"The feeding of live vertebrates to a snake is an offence under the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001, unless it is absolutely necessary for the snake's survival..."


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 9, 2010)

Jasspa said:


> Buying it is not the illegal part, its the actual feeding live part that is illegal. The exception is there that if the snake will die if it is not fed live food.
> 
> "The feeding of live vertebrates to a snake is an offence under the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001, unless it is absolutely necessary for the snake's survival..."


Sorry but when u said the pet shops are covering them selves you gave me the impression that they were breaking the law as well


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## cris (Mar 9, 2010)

:lol: what a funny thread, just tell them what they want to hear. These sort of humans are very stupid and its easy to avoid conflict if you go about it the right way. Its just like picking up give away kittens


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## Jasspa (Mar 9, 2010)

There was a time about 6 months ago where some agents from RSPCA and Animal welfare league etc who are employed to regulate the codes of practice and the animal protection acts were sent out to 'test' pet stores to see if they were selling mice to people with snakes and were able to fine shops that were selling to customers knowing that the mice were going to be fed live. Basically the pet shop is responsible for refusing the sale of the animal if they believe the animals will suffer anything against the animal protection act, otherwise fines could result. 
As a buyer, it is against the act for them to actually feed live.
So it kinda depends on whose side you are looking from, if you know what I mean?


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 9, 2010)

But just because your buying for feeding purposes does not mean that you are going to live feed it, so pet stores should not make that assumption


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## SnapKitten (Mar 9, 2010)

Hahaha, my pet shop has a sign on the chickens that says "not wormed or vaccinated, recomended for snake food". And almost never have live rats or mice because they sell out all the time.


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## cris (Mar 9, 2010)

Jasspa said:


> So it kinda depends on whose side you are looking from, if you know what I mean?



Do they do the same with fish and crays? They are covered buy the same laws in Qld. Its all good in the deluded ideology of the RSPCA to feed cats on endangered fish species that die slowly as bycatch or for them to kill heaps of animals that could be used as food and throw them out as rubbish.

Funny thing i saw on an RPSCA show was them showing a turtle being live fed a noxious fish species. Apart from being an offence worth up to a years jail to feed live fish to a turtle they also were promoting the illegal use of noxious fish which also has severe penalties.


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## grimbeny (Mar 9, 2010)

FROM TOXIMAC - (grim was logged in) ..
I think its obvious that you cant live feed, most snake people know this, the FACT IS.. 

Pet store owners shouldn't assume someones going to LIVE FEED when they never said they would. If a kiwi bought a sheep i wouldnt assume the worst and not sell it to him, that would be discrimination. 
There is nothing wrong with breeding an animal, there is no law as someone commented before about if their conditions are well kept ect. The Mite/Lice insecticide thing was just a throw in so she could deny his sale. 
I really couldn't care less if her Employeer told her to say what she said. She lied as if she was cool with it, then caught him, and then acted like a sycastic B...She wasn't doing it to 'save his reptiles'..or 'help him out'... the place she gave him was useless & far. AND I WANTED THOSE MICE SO EXCUSE ME IF I HAVE TO BE A KID THAT SAYS I HATE SNAKES AND WANNA CUDDLE MICE BECAUSE I NEED NEW FRIENDS IF A PET STORE PERSON PRETENDS TO BE INTERSTED... Im going there tomorrow and getting them all ... Im gonna laugh in her face afterwards...and I'll let you all know what happened!


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## Jasspa (Mar 9, 2010)

> But just because your buying for feeding purposes does not mean that you are going to live feed it, so pet stores should not make that assumption



You're right, they should not make that assumption, and in this situation the woman in question was. 
What I'm saying is that the pet shop is responsible by law to refuse the sale _*if *_they _*know *_it will be fed live by the person buying it. In this situation, they buyer (toximac) was not doing anything wrong. If in another situation a buyer told the pet shop assistant that they were going to buy a mouse to feed it live to a snake, then in order to protect themselves from being fined, they can rightfully refuse the sale. 
I'm just highlighting that this senario can go different ways, but there are laws regulating what people can and can't legally do.


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## Jasspa (Mar 9, 2010)

> Do they do the same with fish and crays? They are covered buy the same laws in Qld


Live feeding is only covering invertebrates in this 'animal protection act'... 
Different laws I imagine, in using native and noxious fish and crays - perhaps to do with wildlife governing bodies...


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## Jungletrans (Mar 9, 2010)

When l have to buy live l like to start with un related rats . l go into one store and ask for some pet rats , and ask to make them all females so they wont breed . Then get the male from somewhere else . Tell them what they want to hear , makes life easier .


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## toximac (Mar 10, 2010)

I hear laws on rats/mice are different to any other mammal, in experimentation/research...you could cut it alive and still be within the law.
Id never feed live, nor should pet store people assum.. isn't there a customer watch dog thing


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## RemoverAccount (Mar 10, 2010)

a tea spoon of concrete may help - life must be pretty sweet if this is as bad as it gets


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## Vincey (Mar 10, 2010)

grimbeny said:


> FROM TOXIMAC - (grim was logged in) ..
> If a kiwi bought a sheep i wouldnt assume the worst and not sell it to him, that would be discrimination.
> Im going there tomorrow and getting them all ... Im gonna laugh in her face afterwards...and I'll let you all know what happened!


 
Haha. Love it.

On-topic, though. I agree with you entirely about how it's lame you were denied sale of the mice and what-not. But if i were in her position and the animals i was selling had a chance to have toxins on them, I'd consider it covering myself, not helping him, not saving the mice, none of that. Simple, selfish, smart. Saving your own tail from possible future baddies!


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## WombleHerp (Mar 10, 2010)

When I worked in a pet shop, I wasnt supposed to sell mice/rats for snake food... (I did anyway, cause I really didnt care about the shop at that stage)
I just made it noted that not only is it illegal to feed out live, but is considered very dangerous to the snake if it decides to retaliate. Other then that I personally had no problems!

They said we werent aloud to sell them to people owning snakes because they were apparently all 'hand raised' and only used for pets because of that.. (they bred in-store and were not hand raised at all....!)

I even had a chuckle with a few of the customers trying to hide the fact they 'werent for snake food' saying that im not supposed to but i dont care as i own snakes anyway and hate my boss...
some people must have thought I was an absolute idiot with the stories they were coming up with to 'trick' me.. but as soon as i would mention i would sell them anyway despite snakes they opened right up lol

hahaha I left that place as soon as I could...


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## bronsoneggbeater (Mar 12, 2010)

doesnt matter what her reasons are a person in that position (who works in a pet store) has the right to choose what animals they sell to who. not saying its right or wrong just that, thats how it goes. if they dont think you can or will look after an animal they are not obliged to sell it to you.


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## tooninoz (Mar 12, 2010)

What a load of rubbish. You are buying rodents from pet stores/chains. 

Why whinge? 

You are only making your own path anyways yeah?


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## toximac (Mar 13, 2010)

[deleted]

And tooninoz...
Why am I buying mice from pet stores? um... because I'm not in contact with mouse breeders and there happened to be a pet store close to my partner to buy mice, is there a problem? 
I'm not making a path, I'm making a thread :-S

Its fine if you both wanna turn a blind eye - problem never really goes away if you read back many have experienced this - Im dealing with it on sunday - will update my serve of justice & perhaps it will enspire pet store keepers to be more open to all animals OR have reptile owners lie to pet stores & buy a kitten for crocodile food.


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## mouse_has_faith (Mar 13, 2010)

I know it's good to get stuff off your chest, but the fact is that the pet store is allowed to refuse to sell their animals to you. It's not discrimination, because there was concern for the welfare of the mice and the snake.


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## redbellybite (Mar 13, 2010)

WOW ...I have never had a drama ever ..sometimes I get that awwwwww really look ..but that was usually due to them asking "oh what colours would you like ?" and the reply was " oh they dont care about colour.." then it gell'd with the petstore keeper what they were for ...but never told NO ...


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## Pythonking (Mar 13, 2010)

I think your blowing it out of proportion, seriously is it a big deal? Look in the for sale section of this site to me it looks like there are plenty of breeders of mice around sydney,


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## dadaman (Mar 13, 2010)

Which pet shop was it?


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## junglecarpet (Mar 13, 2010)

She sounds like a b!tch to be honest lol

Shops should have signs up stating that their rodents are not to be used for reptile food. There is a Pet Shop in Brisbane that does it and its a very good idea


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## mebebrian (Mar 13, 2010)

The way i see it, if it is advertised for a set price them that is the price she MUST sell them for. Otherwise its false advertising IMHO. Call Department of consumer affairs. Yes its her job to inform you of any treatments and toxic chemicals and what the effects are. But she still must sell said mice for quoted price. Simple.


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## mebebrian (Mar 13, 2010)

And people, if you are buying mice for feeding to reptiles it your job as a keeper to ask about any treatments the mice may have been given. Its your job to ensure you are providing a good safe meal everytime you feed any pet.


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## mouse_has_faith (Mar 13, 2010)

Department of Consumer Affairs? Isn't that a bit much? And anyway, they wouldn't give two hoots over some mice! I mean, is it worth raising your blood pressure over? Just go to another pet store.


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## Kristy_07 (Mar 13, 2010)

I might be one of the few that stand out, but I say, cut the girl some slack. When I worked in a pet shop, we didn't sell anything as food. We didn't sell mice, rats or quail for snake food, no feeder fish, and definitely no kittens as crabpot bait. Yes, plenty of people wanted the kittens (morons, crabs don't eat kittens in the wild  ). 

It was our responsibility to find those animals a good home, and she obviously sees it the same way. She's looking out for the animals in her care, not your feelings. We used to explain that yes, insecticides can kill your snake, and secondly, our mice were priced to be pets, not food, so going down the road to the shop that sold pets & food was the better option for everybody. They are allowed to ask what the mice are for if they are suspect, same as you would be asked if you were buying a big tough puppy dog and dropped a comment about dog fighting. 

I don't think she's discriminating against you, or an idiot for not liking snakes. Maybe she really likes mice  If someone came to your place and wanted to buy all your hatchies because their mongoose was hungry, what would you say? Don't get worked up, just find another shop that's happy to cater for your needs.


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## Jasspa (Mar 13, 2010)

> Maybe she really likes mice  If someone came to your place and wanted to buy all your hatchies because their mongoose was hungry, what would you say?



Very true...


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## mebebrian (Mar 13, 2010)

Fair call but put up a sign saying they are not for food. No sign then they gotta sell for the advertised price.


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## toximac (Mar 13, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Maybe she really likes mice  If someone came to your place and wanted to buy all your hatchies because their mongoose was hungry, what would you say?


If it was a private breeder they have the right to say no, and Id respect that.
But because Its a commercial pet store they are advertising to everyone. We shouldn't have to lie or be silenced because we KEEP SNAKES?? It is legal to breed animals!! LEGAL! Maybe my partner really like snakes, doesn't give her any right to deny his sale! I think you need to read all comments posted, she discriminated & there was no sign to say "we dont sell to snake owners".. If she really liked mice then I don't care, And neither should she about snakes! 



mouse_has_faith said:


> Department of Consumer Affairs? Isn't that a bit much? And anyway, they wouldn't give two hoots over some mice! I mean, is it worth raising your blood pressure over? Just go to another pet store.


You among others have said this, and like I said, I wanted those mice, not from any other pet store, and my bf couldn't get them because he keeps snakes, its discrimination whatever you say, and its happened to MANY people - read back to see for yourself. There is no point of me going to consumer affairs, I will buy the mice, have my word, and if Im not apologised to I will take it to consumer affairs.



mebebrian said:


> Fair call but put up a sign saying they are not for food. No sign then they gotta sell for the advertised price.


Yeah I used that line at myer once with a food processor, the guy wouldn't accept the price advertised, its the law perhaps or based on an old myth? lol I don't know. 

The fact is these mice weren't going to be used for food, so if a sign or something was up, it would be disregarded, I was going to use their babies for food. If the pet stores cared about them so much, then they should desex them! - if they cant, then they cant complain!


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## Colin (Mar 14, 2010)

mouse_has_faith said:


> Department of Consumer Affairs? Isn't that a bit much? And anyway, they wouldn't give two hoots over some mice! I mean, is it worth raising your blood pressure over? Just go to another pet store.



I agree with mouse_has_faith... but if its that important to you maybe you could call current affair or sixty minites to investigate this injustice


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## SNAKEBOY33 (Mar 14, 2010)

pet stores i used to frequent on the Central Coast would get 80 to a 100 mice in at once and all would be pre sold this went on weekly. I would guess 99.9% were not for pets.


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## antaresia_boy (Mar 14, 2010)

> If a kiwi bought a sheep i wouldnt assume the worst and not sell it to him, that would be discrimination.


Ohhh I just cracked up laughing :lol: thanks


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## cris (Mar 14, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> If someone came to your place and wanted to buy all your hatchies because their mongoose was hungry, what would you say? Don't get worked up, just find another shop that's happy to cater for your needs.



In a hypothetical case where it was legal, if they treated them humanely i would let them buy food at around $10 000-250 000 a KG or whatever the average hatchy price is. Although in reality i woudnt because its illegal to use native fauna as food (with a few exceptions that arnt relevant) and to keep mongooses and other weasels in Qld.


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## reptilefan95 (Mar 15, 2010)

At the shop i work at we go through 4 cages of mice in about a week. Even if they are for snake food, she had no way of knowing that you werent going to cull them humanely, so she could not stop you. You are allowed to buy mice for breeding and snake food, as long as you do not feed them to your snake live, and disopse of them humanely.

P.S was it burwood pets?


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## mouse_has_faith (Mar 15, 2010)

Geez, whatever happened to the good 'ol Aussie, "she'll be right", attitude?

Discrimination is generally when people are denied equal rights, opportunities or even liberties based off things like religion, ethnicity, gender, or age. Somehow a woman in a pet shop not selling you some mice doesn't quite fit the bill. But do whatever you feel you must do.


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## Pythonking (Mar 15, 2010)

mouse_has_faith said:


> Geez, whatever happened to the good 'ol Aussie, "she'll be right", attitude?
> 
> Discrimination is generally when people are denied equal rights, opportunities or even liberties based off things like religion, ethnicity, gender, or age. Somehow a woman in a pet shop not selling you some mice doesn't quite fit the bill. But do whatever you feel you must do.


 

Everyones gone soft?!?!? :lol:


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## shane14 (Mar 15, 2010)

mate maybe u yourself go any buy them for your bf?


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## baxtor (Mar 15, 2010)

seems like a mountain out of a mole hill.
There is no contract for a sale until a price is agreed and the payment is accepted by the seller. They can refuse to sell to you and then turn around and sell to the guy behind you and there is nothing you can do about it.


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## jessb (Mar 15, 2010)

toximac said:


> I hear laws on rats/mice are different to any other mammal, in experimentation/research...you could cut it alive and still be within the law.


 
There are incredibly strict ethics protocols around animal experimentation though. It has to be proven that any experimentation is absolutely necessary and it takes place within very strict guidelines.


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## toximac (Mar 16, 2010)

missed out last weekend to go to city but will this weekend lol yes jessb but the guidelines are pretty free into what you can do to rat/mouse when its under a targeted study isn't it?


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 9, 2011)

cris said:


> :lol: what a funny thread, just tell them what they want to hear. These sort of humans are very stupid and its easy to avoid conflict if you go about it the right way. Its just like picking up give away kittens


Posts like this make me really angry, if someone is giving an animal away under the pretext of it going to a good home then it should go to a good home. Plenty of people have giveaways that they say are for meat or pets so why go pick up pets just so you can get a free feed for your snake. I know now never ever to give away any mammals or birds that I don't want to see ending up as food.


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## vampstorso (Apr 9, 2011)

Funny how people bait and kill mice etc in their homes....drown them, crush them; anything to get rid of them.

They eat cute cows etc...

But then its unethical to feed mice to snakes? To put them to use? 

Ahhh people are fun! 

At my high-school, all the year 8's had to breed mice to monitor their traits being passed down. All the offspring were always fed to the biology teachers snakes. Still are now. We never complained.

I agree that once you were warned of the mite treatment it was your choice...plus, its all about how you say something not what you say (the sarcastic smile damning any chance of you understanding her position)


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## Red-Ink (Apr 9, 2011)

I don't understand where the discrimination is?? It is illegal for them to sell live rodents for food. Fair enough they were going to be used for breeding instead of food directly but she did not believe your boyfriend therefore have the right to refuse the sale. It's just like bars having the right to refuse service to people they believe are intoxicated, it doesn't matter if they are or not. That's not discrimination that's just facts....


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## Hoyle00cdn (Apr 9, 2011)

People just go to another pet store that doesn't ask questions. Why make a big deal of this. It's not discrimination, owning a snake is not the same as being black. People value different animals in their own way, and if a pet store chooses to value the sanctity of their mice that's their right.

It's no different than a guy walking onto a horse ranch with a shirt that says "Glue Factory" asking to by a few horses. The owner has the right to refuse.


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## vampstorso (Apr 9, 2011)

^ to be fair, horses don't naturally become glue 

Mice naturally become food though


I do see your point though, so I'm not taking a stab


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## junglepython2 (Apr 9, 2011)

She should be commended, most petshop don't give a hoot about the welfare of there animals. Get over it and find another petshop.


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## spotlight (Apr 9, 2011)

they all end up snake food in the end !!!,that is what god made them for ,otherwise they would not have a long tail for holding onto like a tea bag.

your boyfriend needs to think quicker he should of replied " ok! do you have any small kittens instead?" lol


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## Australis (Apr 9, 2011)

toximac said:


> I hear laws on rats/mice are different to any other mammal, in experimentation/research...you could cut it alive and still be within the law.



Stop watching PETA videos


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## Darlyn (Apr 9, 2011)

This thread is 12 months old, do you think she has her mice by now?


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## spotlight (Apr 9, 2011)

yes i think the mite spray has died off by now!!,its safe to use as snake food lol


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## saximus (Apr 9, 2011)

I know it's an old thread but what made me laugh was people talking about the welfare of them being a concern. I reckon my rats and mice get treated better than most pets. Happy, healthy rodents are good producers so I reckon some of the best looked after rodents belong to reptile owners


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## Dannyboi (Apr 10, 2011)

Maybe the rats were sold to the store under the condition that they were to be pets? Some people say that when they sell/give animals away and maybe the lady was honoring an agreement. If it is discrimination then I don't really see it. I can see both sides here. I will note that I buy quails/mice/rats all live occasionally as I breed Quails and my siblings keep mice/rats and never have I been asked what the purpose was. She may have been covering all bases but once you had given her the information that they weren't going to be live fed she had no legitimate reason to refuse sale.

But really next time just get them elsewhere. Clearly not worth the hassle.


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## Hoyle00cdn (Apr 10, 2011)

It becomes pretty obvious what you're buying it for when you ask for a mouse, any one will do, and you don't need to hold it before buying it.


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## sookie (Apr 10, 2011)

i hate rats so decided to do the breeding rabbits thing to fill up our snake freezer.had a whole arguement that the rabbits i was buying today will be pets and the bubbys will be food.not live food,dead.oh the whoopie doo she made about the cruelty of donging the bubs,pain,anguish and basic torture she expects the rabbits to go thru.but its cool to keep paying $30 odd bucks per feed from her store per fortnight for rats.how does the stupid lady think they got in the bags.......died of their own free will,bravely gave up their lives so that snakes could live on.....mmmmmm.....not likely.


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## mje772003 (Apr 10, 2011)

This is just typical with the retail industry crying poor after the GFC and people not buying as much and businesses are either downsizing or closing down or buying online. Most of these petshops would be small businesses so you would think it would be in their best interests to sell what ever they can. In the end it will be their own fault if they don't do well with the inflated prices they push onto the consumer.

Well all i can say is karma will get em

If this happens to rats/mice this would also happen to baby chickens if you were starting a farm or something and wanted chickens to breed and the babies you would fatten up to eventually consume ourselves?


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## Darkhorse (Apr 10, 2011)

cris said:


> :lol: what a funny thread, just tell them what they want to hear. These sort of humans are very stupid and its easy to avoid conflict if you go about it the right way. Its just like picking up give away kittens



I seriously hope you're joking about the kitten part!


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## wokka (Apr 10, 2011)

mje772003 said:


> This is just typical with the retail industry crying poor after the GFC and people not buying as much and businesses are either downsizing or closing down or buying online. Most of these petshops would be small businesses so you would think it would be in their best interests to sell what ever they can. In the end it will be their own fault if they don't do well with the inflated prices they push onto the consumer.
> 
> Well all i can say is karma will get em
> 
> If this happens to rats/mice this would also happen to baby chickens if you were starting a farm or something and wanted chickens to breed and the babies you would fatten up to eventually consume ourselves?


 It is nice to hear of people who dont compromise their ethics for money.


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## Grogshla (Apr 10, 2011)

they are player haters


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## mje772003 (Apr 10, 2011)

wokka said:


> It is nice to hear of people who dont compromise their ethics for money.


 
I hope that wasn't in a negative way but also people on here could use their networking skills with others on here as to find shops that are reptile keeper friendly that will sell live rats or mice for humane purposes.


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## ingie (Apr 10, 2011)

.


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## Torah (Apr 10, 2011)

Would not have taken no for an answer , probably would have walked out and then walkesd back in , "hi id like those mice " when she said "what for " " my kids " " but you just told me your were ....... " " i lied gimme the mice " !


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## cris (Apr 11, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> I seriously hope you're joking about the kitten part!


 
If they wernt supposed to be food a machete wouldnt cut them in to snack size portions


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 11, 2011)

lol discrimination , try being a smoker, or gay or a reffo or black just go somewhere else and get ya mice....


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## mje772003 (Apr 11, 2011)

NatoRey said:


> lol discrimination , try being a smoker, or gay or a reffo or black just go somewhere else and get ya mice....


I am in one of those groups that gets discriminated against


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## Hoyle00cdn (Apr 11, 2011)

Discrimination against smokers? :?


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## LadyJ (Apr 11, 2011)

Me: Do you have any feeders?

Manager at the counter: "Feeders?"

Me: Yeah, like, rats and mice and *stuff*

Manager: Feeding to WHAT?!

Me: Snakes?

Manasger: I have to ask you to leave right now

Me: No freezies then?

Manager: NO!

Me: *Points to cage* how about those rats? How much?

Manager: *Smirks* $50 for you!

Me: Bull-poop... *turns to boyfriend* this had better be the best damn rat Diab's ever tasted *pulls out wallet*

Manager: *Starts yelling random three-figure numbers and boyfriend tries to grab my wallet, other customers are watching*

Me: Eventually walks out laughing

--

I've also had people call me up and tell me to go to hell because I advertised on Gumtree I wanted a local rat breeder to supply to me. No joke.


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## fugawi (Apr 11, 2011)

Go back and ask again....When they ask just say I got a new recipe for Rat Kebab or rat on a stick. Tell them you need it live because the stick goes in easier when they wiggle.:lol:


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## toximac (Dec 18, 2011)

That's hilarious LadyJ lol


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## dylan-rocks (Dec 18, 2011)

dam greenies


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## K3nny (Dec 19, 2011)

all i can say in this matter is pity their ignorance

oh and surely there must be more stories like this since 8 months ago?


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## cwebb (Dec 19, 2011)

BJC-787 said:


> it is up to the shop who they sell to and they don't have to sell them to you, also for all vertebrates they have to keep a animals sold register with your name, adress and phone number.i work in a pet shop and i have no problem selling them for breeding for food.


 sorry im just excited that someone else on here lives in bx hahahaa what pet shop are you at?


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## r3ptilian (Dec 19, 2011)

Sounds silly but happens alot, So does that mean its ok to offer feeder fish to an oscar or cichlid etc but wrong to feed it to your tree snake, turtle or croc?


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## mysnakesau (Dec 19, 2011)

toximac said:


> My Bf went to buy some mice, at a inner city pet store, and asked for female mice TODAY, this is what happened *In script form*
> 
> 
> _(My Bf walks into the store, looking at mice, and approaches a woman with short blonde hair and pink streaks)_
> ...



I haven't read all the replies yet but I don't believe she did discriminate against your BF. It is the law. Pet stores are not allowed to sell mice intended for feeding to snakes, owls or whatever. Your BF shot himself in the foot by being so blunt. He should not have given her the hint that they were for breeding for snake food. Its only the big headed keepers that gloat and rant, and request live mice to chuck it in for a snake, that have encouraged the laws to be this way.


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## JAS101 (Dec 19, 2011)

r3ptilian said:


> Sounds silly but happens alot, So does that mean its ok to offer feeder fish to an oscar or cichlid etc but wrong to feed it to your tree snake, turtle or croc?


id be interested to know as well


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 19, 2011)

ssssnakeman said:


> They dont have to do business with you if they dont want to.
> I never tell them its for feeding, i always use my nephews or nieces as an alibi.



Just about sums it up... walk out & get over it...

Jamie


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## BrownHash (Dec 19, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> I haven't read all the replies yet but I don't believe she did discriminate against your BF. It is the law. Pet stores are not allowed to sell mice intended for feeding to snakes, owls or whatever. Your BF shot himself in the foot by being so blunt. He should not have given her the hint that they were for breeding for snake food. Its only the big headed keepers that gloat and rant, and request live mice to chuck it in for a snake, that have encouraged the laws to be this way.



Which law are you refering to. I'm aware that it is illigal to live feed your snake, but I was unaware that selling mice that are to be bred then killed for feeding purposes was illigal. I realise that it may be a difference in laws between states but I find the logic behind it a bit strange. I agree that he should have been smarter and just said they were for something else. He was probably fishing for a reaction anyway.

At the end of the day it is the shop's decision who they sell their product too. As mentioned by others in this post, the OP should just move on.


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## baxtor (Dec 19, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> I haven't read all the replies yet but I don't believe she did discriminate against your BF. It is the law. Pet stores are not allowed to sell mice intended for feeding to snakes, owls or whatever. Your BF shot himself in the foot by being so blunt. He should not have given her the hint that they were for breeding for snake food. Its only the big headed keepers that gloat and rant, and request live mice to chuck it in for a snake, that have encouraged the laws to be this way.



You can't be serious. Please reference the statute covering the legalities mentioned.


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## longqi (Dec 19, 2011)

One of the strangest things I ever had anything to do with happened at Orimbah on the Central Coast
Called into a pet shop to buy rats
Owner wasnt there
Just a young girl must have been on work experience
Asked for 5 big live rats
"What colour do you want? We have some lovely ones"
Doesnt matter
"How many males and females?"
doesnt matter
"Would you like to pick them out?"
No just toss some in a box
"Why dont you care about them?"
Just snake food
"Sorry all the rats are ordered. Cant sell them to you"
OK give me guinea pigs
"Sorry All ordered too"
OK Ill just take those kittens in the window

Her mouth dropped open that wide she could have swallowed an orange
She actually followed me out to my car and wrote down the licence number
So I gave her a card to make it easier


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## dylan-rocks (Dec 19, 2011)

longqi said:


> One of the strangest things I ever had anything to do with happened at Orimbah on the Central Coast
> Called into a pet shop to buy rats
> Owner wasnt there
> Just a young girl must have been on work experience
> ...




bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## mysnakesau (Dec 19, 2011)

I can't remember where I saw it but I know from when I had my pet store, and any pet store would tell you the same, selling mammals for the intention of feeding to other animals was prohibited. This did not include insects or fish. I will keep looking for my reference. I thought it was written under National Parks & Wildlife code of practice but it may have been the RSPCA. Selling animals intended for breeding, where offspring would be used for food was not the issue, but selling live mammals which were intended as food items was not allowed. But as many pet store workers would tell you, so much as mention snake in their shop, and they will not sell you a mouse.


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## waruikazi (Dec 19, 2011)

What if a person was going to eat them?



mysnakesau said:


> I can't remember where I saw it but I know from when I had my pet store, and any pet store would tell you the same, selling mammals for the intention of feeding to other animals was prohibited. This did not include insects or fish. I will keep looking for my reference. I thought it was written under National Parks & Wildlife code of practice but it may have been the RSPCA. Selling animals intended for breeding, where offspring would be used for food was not the issue, but selling live mammals which were intended as food items was not allowed. But as many pet store workers would tell you, so much as mention snake in their shop, and they will not sell you a mouse.


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## mysnakesau (Dec 19, 2011)

Ok, after searching the RSPCA's website, I did find that such laws aren't enforcable, and are recommendations only.

However, every pet store worker I have spoke to have told me the same thing - they claim they can lose their business if it they were caught selling animals such as mice and rats, as intended live food items. One pet store even went to the extent of telling me that they were required by National Parks laws to take mouse buyers, reptile license details when such ppl were buying mice or rats, rabbits or guinea pigs.

Gordo - you still should not tell them. Our local rabbit farms will not sell you a pet rabbit if you let them think you are taking it home to eat.


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## paultheo (Dec 19, 2011)

i work in a pet store, and we are required by law not to sell live animals of any description(exept fish) if we KNOW that the critter is going to be used for live food, however there is no requirement to not sell to people who are breeding for pet food. However on a different note with the amount of kittens being abandoned i think that we should be able to c02 them and use them for snake food, im getting at least 30 a week at the moment, would be doing the enviroment a favour too, feed cats to native animals instead of the other way round. Sounds fair.Lol


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## the_tzr (Dec 19, 2011)

Wow, i neva new people could have so much trouble, where i live i just went in to enquire about rats, and mice to breed and the ladys there were telling me everything about how to breed and ways to co2 them. they all know i have a snake cause i have brought some frozen ones from them before. but they did say the same thing about cant sell live ones to feed, but breeding them so the offspring cant be feed is fine..


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## baxtor (Dec 19, 2011)

paultheo said:


> i work in a pet store, and we are required by law not to sell live animals of any description(exept fish) if we KNOW that the critter is going to be used for live food, however there is no requirement to not sell to people who are breeding for pet food. However on a different note with the amount of kittens being abandoned i think that we should be able to c02 them and use them for snake food, im getting at least 30 a week at the moment, would be doing the enviroment a favour too, feed cats to native animals instead of the other way round. Sounds fair.Lol



Again, please reference the statute. Can't because it does not exist. I have no real problem with pet shop owners/ operators not selling to whoever they choose for whatever reason they choose, that is their right but do not dress it up as THE LAW.


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## sezzle1 (Dec 19, 2011)

Can I just say that I used to work in a pet store about 2 years ago and our bosses MADE us sell live rodents to people that we KNEW were going to feed them ALIVE to snakes. Staff were also instructed to feed live pinkies to the snakes we were trying to sell to customers. It was terrible  Everytime I had a customer ask for a rodent I knew was for food, I made them choose an individual, because I am a lover of all animals and didn't want to play God and decide which one would meet that fate. That's how I got my pet rat back in the day. She was a kids pet and the family got sick of her, so sold her to the petshop I worked in. Because she had previously been a pet, she was super friendly. She was also alot bigger then the baby rats we had for sale, so snake people always wanted to buy her. I kept lying and saying she had just been wormed and kept waiting for a customer that actually wanted a pet. Three days passed and all i had were snake people asking about her. I ended up buying her and all the gear because I was so worried another staff member would sell her as food. We were inseparable for two years until she passed away from old age  I have snakes as pets as well and understand that we need to feed them rodents, but they should be humanely euthanaised first, for the safety of the snake and also for the benefit of the poor rodent. I'm vegetarian by the way so you can't say anything about me eating animals myself.


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## toximac (Dec 19, 2011)

I finally found a big pet store that sells feeder mice/rats in a reptile section in Sydney. I asked for 10 mice, some were preggas, so bonus. I also prefer to buy my other gear from there, if I can't wait for online purchases. It's the pet stores loss, been a long while since I wrote this thread, and it's funny how people comment as if to say "it's the law, why winge". Its not right for a pet store owner to interrogate/judge and discriminate someone by giving no valid reason why they won't sell. That's the part I have a problem with, also punishing honesty with sycastic poor behavior - these staff are ruining business - point made. Lol


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## littlemay (Dec 19, 2011)

I believe it's a grey area and should be determined on a case by case basis. I work in a pet store and probe a bit when live mouse/rat sales seem a bit off, this way i can find out exactly why the customer needs live food. IMO poorly educated customers re. the unnecessary cruelty and dangers of live food, customer with a problem feeders, customers wanting to begin breeding their own food should be dealt with differently to someone who knows it's unnecessary but prefers live food for the 'fun' of it.


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## longqi (Dec 19, 2011)

I can fully understand a reluctance to sell any animal if the pet shop knew it was going to be used as live feed

But very few reptile owners percentage wise would risk live feeding


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## icedmice (Dec 19, 2011)

It's not discrimination and they don't have a legal obligation to sell them to you. Read up on consumer law.

Funnily enough I own both a pet snake and exhibition rodents so I can see both sides of the coin.
Some people are very sensitive about what happens to small and fluffy animals, it's no different than asking for any other animal. The attendant probably thought she saved those mice, that's just her perpective - right or wrong. You often read about people 'rescuing' rodents from similar situations.
Luckily snakes aren't typically used as fodder but if the shoe was on the other foot it might be a little easier to understand.

Best thing to do is not tell them what it's for, it saves a lot of hastle. Just tell them it's a surprise for the kids.

I'm 100% certain they aren't the only mice in the country and that getting them specifically from that store is of little consequence. It's not worth getting upset over, just go elsewhere. You may even find a better source, pet stores are notorious for dodgy quality rodents.


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## paultheo (Dec 19, 2011)

baxtor said:


> Again, please reference the statute. Can't because it does not exist. I have no real problem with pet shop owners/ operators not selling to whoever they choose for whatever reason they choose, that is their right but do not dress it up as THE LAW.


 well the RSPCA guy that came when we first opened our doors sure had a different veiw, he stated that it was an offence and that if we were caught out then we could be prosecuted under the crulety to animals act, so are you sure that its not THE LAW? Im sure im not the only person who has heard of that particular law, and a mouse is a pest but it is still an animal and is protected under that law, the same as a snake, lizard, koala and every other animal. I'll sell you breeders and you do what you please but i have to cover my own *** at the end of the day.


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## waruikazi (Dec 19, 2011)

paultheo said:


> well the RSPCA guy that came when we first opened our doors sure had a different veiw, he stated that it was an offence and that if we were caught out then we could be prosecuted under the crulety to animals act, so are you sure that its not THE LAW? Im sure im not the only person who has heard of that particular law, and a mouse is a pest but it is still an animal and is protected under that law, the same as a snake, lizard, koala and every other animal. I'll sell you breeders and you do what you please but i have to cover my own *** at the end of the day.



Most inverts and fish are not covered under those laws.


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## GellyAmbert (Dec 20, 2011)

I did it.. I read the whole 9 pages and I still dont know if u finally got THOSE 4 MICE that u promised us u'd get and tell us all about it..?? a little dissapointed to be honest.... but its good to hear u eventually moved on and found a store your happy with..


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 20, 2011)

PythonApprentice said:


> I did it.. I read the whole 9 pages and I still dont know if u finally got THOSE 4 MICE that u promised us u'd get and tell us all about it..?? a little dissapointed to be honest.... but its good to hear u eventually moved on and found a store your happy with..



Aaaarrrgghhhh... at long last! I can't believe that this thread has gone to 9 pages!!! When the simple response should have been - the petshop can refuse to sell you whatever it likes for whatever reason, and if they do, just go somewhere else... so simple. What's the big deal?

Hopefully this thread will be closed and buried early today!

J


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## mysnakesau (Dec 20, 2011)

paultheo said:


> well the RSPCA guy that came when we first opened our doors sure had a different veiw, he stated that it was an offence and that if we were caught out then we could be prosecuted under the crulety to animals act, so are you sure that its not THE LAW? Im sure im not the only person who has heard of that particular law, and a mouse is a pest but it is still an animal and is protected under that law, the same as a snake, lizard, koala and every other animal. I'll sell you breeders and you do what you please but i have to cover my own *** at the end of the day.



I must admit that I am very gullable. I believe anything I am told......

......until I go look at the black and white print. What the RSPCA will tell you, compared to what is written in their 'rules' or whatever they call it, are, in this case, two different things. They don't want live animals being fed to predators so they will sound very encouraging that you could be penalised for doing do. But all I could find on their website was that this is a law that could NOT be enforced, but have recommendations in place for the safety of the snake as well as the welfare of the poor little prey.
Can I feed live mice to a reptile? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase


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## Hoyle00cdn (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't know, I sympathize with the defenders of rodents, but I have a hard time sympathizing with pet stores.

I used to breed dwarf hamsters before I got into reptiles.

Cross breeding and hybrids were a major problem, and the biggest/worst culprits were major pet store chains. If you're familiar with the animal, there's two main species of dwarf hamsters and cross breeding them is like cross breeding a lion and a tiger. Major pet stores ignore this genetic fact and constantly cross breed the two. It's resulted in very sick dwarf hamster lines, and has tainted the purity of them. They're often mislabeled in pet stores and sold as pairs to customers. 

The Reptile community often complains about the misinformation pet stores carry on snakes and lizards, the same is true with rodents.

If pet stores are going to go on animal rights crusades when it comes to feeders, perhaps they should practice what they preach and start breeding them right.


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## littlemay (Dec 20, 2011)

Lucky for us you can't keep hamsters in Australia then!


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## Hoyle00cdn (Dec 20, 2011)

So I've heard.


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## FAY (Dec 20, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Aaaarrrgghhhh... at long last! I can't believe that this thread has gone to 9 pages!!! When the simple response should have been - the petshop can refuse to sell you whatever it likes for whatever reason, and if they do, just go somewhere else... so simple. What's the big deal?
> 
> Hopefully this thread will be closed and buried early today!
> 
> ...



Sounds good to me....


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