# Gut Loading



## jason haskins (Dec 22, 2016)

hi guys I'm new to the forum and wondered what people are using to gut load crickets etc..?


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## pinefamily (Dec 24, 2016)

Fruit and veg mainly, with occasional lizard pellets. Dust their food with multi-cal powder a couple of times a week, saves dusting the crickets before feeding them to your lizard.


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## jason haskins (Dec 24, 2016)

Ok cheers buddy. I know everyone dusts the crickets but what are the monitors or lizards in general not getting in captivity that they are getting in the wild? It's been an ongoing discussion back in the uk? Reptiles have survived millions of years without anyone dusting there food. Lol and they seemed to of done just fine.


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## pinefamily (Dec 24, 2016)

Crickets, woodies and chicken or turkey mince for juveniles, with occasional pinkie rats. Pet chicken mince is the best IMO, as it is the only one that has bone minced in with it.


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## Wokka (Dec 24, 2016)

I am no lizard expert but i think there is a relationship between vitamin D and calcium. Excess calcium is not a problem and since crickets are relatively low in calcium dusting occurs just to on the safe side. i believe there is also temperature to consider. I have heard it said that if animals have access to sufficient heat and adequate diet then UV is unnecessary.


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## dragonlover1 (Dec 24, 2016)

jason haskins said:


> Ok cheers buddy. I know everyone dusts the crickets but what are the monitors or lizards in general not getting in captivity that they are getting in the wild? It's been an ongoing discussion back in the uk? Reptiles have survived millions of years without anyone dusting there food. Lol and they seemed to of done just fine.


the difference between wild animals and domesticated is the wild eat everything they can see or catch,whereas in captivity they only get what we give them which means they have limited variety so we add calcium with D3 to ensure their good health.
I give my crix & roaches carrot,apple plus leftover veg the dragons don't eat plus they get lizard pellets and herpa grub or dog biscuits


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## dragonlover1 (Dec 24, 2016)

Wokka said:


> I am no lizard expert but i think there is a relationship between vitamin D and calcium. Excess calcium is not a problem and since crickets are relatively low in calcium dusting occurs just to on the safe side. i believe there is also temperature to consider. I have heard it said that if animals have access to sufficient heat and adequate diet then UV is unnecessary.


I think that mainly refers to snakes who don't require UV because they eat whole animals including internal organs, bone & skin thus getting more nutrient.
My dragons all get calcium with D3 plus they have UV


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## jason haskins (Dec 24, 2016)

Uv is definitely needed I'm seen reptiles without it suffer bad with bone issues. And other problems. My question was just on the dusting of insects. I believe as keeping reptiles in captivity then there are hopefully from there owners getting a much better and varied diet than they would get from the wild so even less of a reason to dust insects.


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## kingofnobbys (Dec 24, 2016)

I gut load my crickets with RepCal adult beardie pellets (dry straight from the bottle) + fresh carrot chunks (also source of water) + buk or puk choi greens.

Works well.

Discovered the crickets like the pellets when I dropped a pellet on the floor once and an excaped cricket discovered it and grabbed it and was seen dragging it across the floor. The crickets love them.


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## Nero Egernia (Dec 24, 2016)

jason haskins said:


> Uv is definitely needed I'm seen reptiles without it suffer bad with bone issues. And other problems. My question was just on the dusting of insects. I believe as keeping reptiles in captivity then there are hopefully from there owners getting a much better and varied diet than they would get from the wild so even less of a reason to dust insects.



As dragonlover1 mentioned out in the wild lizards have the choice to acquire all that they need for a complete diet. They're choice is not just limited to food either. Lizards have been known to acquire additional minerals via the consumption of soil and water.

My lizards usually get bush crickets, not pet store crickets. But I do keep and breed cockroaches and they are fed a mixed diet of vegetable/fruit scraps and cat biscuits. A few times I have even thrown in a rejected mouse and it was soon stripped to the bones.

A few members on here have said that UVB may not be needed at all for both lizards and snakes as long as they have a complete diet and an adequate supply of Vitamin D3 and Calcium. But if you're not sure it's best to stick with UVB, or better yet, direct sunlight. One day I may carry out an investigation so I can see the results myself.


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## jason haskins (Dec 24, 2016)

I have a friend that owns a reptile shop in the uk. He keeps crocs. Ven snakes and helps a lot of zoos out also does a lot of educational shows with schools and runs lots of courses he's been keeping, breeding and importing for over 30 years and knows a lot of zoo keepers all over the world and from his knowledge and experience he says reptiles must have uvb. Can give the complete run down to what he told me as lots of big words I can remember lol but he made it clear that it's a must full stop no exceptions.


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## Smittiferous (Dec 25, 2016)

Re: UV

I'm not sold either way. Plenty claim it's an absolute necessity, plenty swear it's a gimmick. A few experienced breeders I have spoken to argue that they've never used UV, it's all about the right diet. Some on here will claim the same, even as far as stating the UV requirement is a gimmick designed to create sales in products (UV bulbs). 

Begs the question of who you believe, and whether or not you want to risk it. 

Personally I've only ever had one animal suffer from calcium deficiency in my care, shortly after I purchased it. In retrospect, i feel it was a combination of neglect prior to purchase (pet shop) and poor diet on my behalf. Had a uv bulb but it was old. 

I have UV on most of my animals. Because it can't hurt. 

However I have three gillens without UV, on a diet of crickets (dusted) and finely chopped rat, with no adverse effects, all growing well. 

Poor diet + questionable UV bulb = Issues

Poor diet + good UV = Issues

Good diet + good UV = No adverse effects

Good diet + no UV = No adverse effects (in my own personal experience here only)

Your mate with his reptile shop in the U.K. has an agenda in arguing for the provision of UV. It makes him money. I wouldn't trust anyone with an agenda on this subject, regardless of how correct his argument turns out to be.


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## jason haskins (Dec 26, 2016)

He doesn't make money off the lighting only the vivs they make and the reptiles he breeds


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## dragonlover1 (Dec 26, 2016)

jason haskins said:


> Uv is definitely needed I'm seen reptiles without it suffer bad with bone issues. And other problems. My question was just on the dusting of insects. I believe as keeping reptiles in captivity then there are hopefully from there owners getting a much better and varied diet than they would get from the wild so even less of a reason to dust insects.


I dust my bugs because it is well known that crix are very low in calcium,I know a lot of keepers/breeders who say they use no supplements and have had no problems.
I continue to use supplements as I have done from the beginning even though we now have better quality lights etc. I like to think I am doing the best I can for my reptiles so they can have the best life possible even though they live in a box.


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## Smittiferous (Dec 26, 2016)

jason haskins said:


> He doesn't make money off the lighting only the vivs they make and the reptiles he breeds


He doesn't have to, they still attract customers who will often buy other things also. Stocking sought-after products drives sales in other products.

Anyway I don't want to come across as picking on your mate or singling him out, I'm not trying to. What I'm saying is, use it or don't, it can't hurt, plenty have had success without it, but I wouldn't blindly state it's a necessity. Correct, healthy diet seems to be the key, an ultraviolet globe won't do squat for fixing poor husbandry.


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## pinefamily (Dec 26, 2016)

UV is not necessary for snakes and monitors, but won't hurt them either. As Smitti said above, with the right diet and heat UV is not necessary. Dragons and skinks benefit more from UV, as it is difficult to give them the right amount of Vitamin D3 and calcium with diet alone. Get the mix wrong and you have other potential health issues.
The only monitor we own that gets UV are our 2 flavi's, and that's because they live outside.


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