# albino eastern water dragon



## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

hi all my friend has a albino eastern water dragon .. any idea on how muche he would worth ?
i can get soom photos if needed


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## Australis (May 27, 2007)

njlocksmith said:


> hi all my friend has a albino eastern water dragon .. any idea on how muche he would worth ?
> i can get soom photos if needed




Yeah, they will be needed...lol


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## MrSpike (May 27, 2007)

Photo's please, I'll give you $100 for it, not worth more than that :lol:

Kane


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## Sammccarthy (May 27, 2007)

dont be stingy mrspike ill give you $110.
sam


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## MrSpike (May 27, 2007)

Sammccarthy said:


> dont be stingy mrspike ill give you $110.
> sam



Okay I was trying to get a small bargain, they actually are worth around $110-$120, But I would be willing to pay $150 including freight costs? :lol:

Kane


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## Oskorei (May 27, 2007)

bugger you all... $300 here


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## hornet (May 27, 2007)

$500


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

i will post some photos in the next day or 2 when i can get some photos


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## MrSpike (May 27, 2007)

This reminds me to much of Wednesday night's herp meeting, I got outbid on most of my items


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## Oskorei (May 27, 2007)

its like ebay with reptiles!


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## Forensick (May 27, 2007)

$15,000











in gift vouchers for various stores in various countries


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## da_donkey (May 27, 2007)

Hahaha everyone is taking the pi$$ out of you but i bet your getting bombarded with PM's:lol: .

Where is your mate located?

Donk


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## Oskorei (May 27, 2007)

actully i would quite readily give $300 for one


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

nsw


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

we think it is a male its 2-3 years old


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## da_donkey (May 27, 2007)

i'll give you $1000 just send me the pic 

Donk


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## Australis (May 27, 2007)

njlocksmith said:


> we think it is a male its 2-3 years old



Where did you catch it


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## spilota_variegata (May 27, 2007)

If you're telling the truth he'd be worth a packet. If your friend is willing to sell him, try auctioning him off here and see how much he's really worth. That way your friend would not be ripped. Having said that, the lizard would be worth a lot of money


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## junglemad (May 27, 2007)

interesting thread...come in spinner!!


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## roach911 (May 27, 2007)

Your mate has a small goldmine and he barley knows it.
That is if its actually real, remember pics or it never happened:lol: .

He needs to decide if he wante to keep or sell something like that 
and if so, c'mon:lol: .

I knowsomeone that will ...... give a charity of some sort a large donation 
in your name for it. Lol Honest,


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

jungle mad if you think i am full of **** i will post a pic in the next day or 2... as i said b4!!!!!!!!... the lizard was in a photo comp at the last replile expo .. my friend and i were at expo to try and see if it was worth our time to breed him.. (i am not a leg puller) we are going to breed this lizard just trying to find out if its worth the $2000 i was quoted to buy a 2nd encloser that will be needed to breed this lizard


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## hornet (May 27, 2007)

mate, keep him and breed him


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## Australis (May 27, 2007)

I look forward to the photos.


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## Auzlizardking (May 27, 2007)

A free enclosure for a hatchie


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## cyclamen (May 27, 2007)

i have never heard of one being in captivaty. so i am interested to see if it turns out to be true.


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## roach911 (May 27, 2007)

If you decide to keep and breed him you will make that money back eventually.
If you want to, go for it.
Breed it and then sell, you can sell the young and stll have the male for yourself.


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## Australis (May 27, 2007)

njlocksmith said:


> jungle mad if you think i am full of **** i will post a pic in the next day or 2... as i said b4!!!!!!!!... the lizard was in a photo comp at the last replile expo .. my friend and i were at expo to try and see if it was worth our time to breed him.. (i am not a leg puller) we are going to breed this lizard just trying to find out if its worth the $2000 i was quoted to buy a 2nd encloser that will be needed to breed this lizard




IF you want to stop the doubt, perhaps you would like to share with us, what "expo" you had it in?

I just would of thought if it was entered into a photo comp, a photo would be around already, just seems strange is all.


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## MrBredli (May 27, 2007)

Yes, keeping and breeding yourself would be the best option financially, but i would expect to have similar problems raising the young as seen with the albino Beardies, so it wouldn't be an easy task. It would be a gamble but if you can pull it off you will come out on top.


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

the frog and sanke expo forgot what was called .. it was in casle hill nsw sydey


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## roach911 (May 27, 2007)

Id have to agree with Australis.
It does seem a bit strange that nothing has come up and under the circumstances
there is bound to be at least one photo around somewear.
Not saying you are full or ****** at all.
I just cant wait to see the pictures. and that will also give some closure for anyone 
that has any doubts.

If you do decide to keep it and breed it , good luck. It will be an experience.


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## MrSpike (May 27, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> Yes, keeping and breeding yourself would be the best option financially, but i would expect to have similar problems raising the young as seen with the albino Beardies, so it wouldn't be an easy task. It would be a gamble but if you can pull it off you will come out on top.



I don't believe it would. If it has lived this far that should mean that the it is a strong and healthy animals, which would produce a strong and healthy line. There will be albino beardies on the market soon enough, not necessarily from Bob Withey's line...


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## njlocksmith (May 27, 2007)

we wlll see the photo will say it all....let me just say that


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## Forensick (May 28, 2007)

did you name it casper....

i am imagine i totally pale white water dragon here...


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## MoreliaMatt (May 28, 2007)

here is my albino ewd!


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## cyclamen (May 28, 2007)

LOL @ MATT thats a dodgy pic matt.


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## scam7278 (May 28, 2007)

matt i'll give you 500 for your albino EWD lol


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## cyclamen (May 28, 2007)

i have searched high and low and there is no records of any albino water dragons kept in captivaty. 
SO..............if your friend does have one. he is special..
but...there is a saying around here.......
PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN


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## Davo66 (May 28, 2007)

PMSL Matt,
But I think the logs are fake!!


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## Davo66 (May 28, 2007)

PMSL Matt,
But I think the logs are fake!!
Davo


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## nvenm8 (May 28, 2007)

njlocksmith said:


> hi all my friend has a albino eastern water dragon .. any idea on how muche he would worth ?
> i can get soom photos if needed



Mate play your cards close to your chest! You do not have to prove anything to anyone! Even a normal Eastern Water Dragon has a $$ value, so yours is certainly worth somewhat more when you decide to sell the offspring. Wait till you have bred it then post photos, sit back and watch them all froth at the mouth, then name a price and then see that all the kafuffle caused here was mostly caused by jealous tyre kickers :lol: :lol:


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## peterjohnson64 (May 28, 2007)

Firstly you need to remember that this animal will almost certainly need to be paired with a normal EWD. That will produce a 100% clutch of hets. If the only two dragons you have (unless you have a male with a couple of females) are the albino and another you can probably sell a number of each of those het cluthces off. I say if it is the only two because otherweise who would know what they are buying.

Then you need to raise some of the hets until they are able to breed. Then if you put a young female with the albino male you will get 50% albino and 50% het young.

So.... assuming you will be able to breed this coming spring you will still need to wait another three years to get albino babies.

But you could probably get $200 each for the het babies if you know how to sex them. And YES it CAN be done visually.

Firstly though you need to determine if you have a male. Good if you do because he will happily service a number of females if kept correctly. If not then get yourself an adult male and work out how to breed them. Its not hard. They are like rabbits.

Good luck!!


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## Tiliqua (May 28, 2007)

Umm... guys,
I think he may be indeed telling the truth as there was actually a photo in the main hall of the expo of an albino eatern water dragon. Me and my mates were amazed by it.
Weather its his friends or not, i wouldn't know.


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## herpie boy (May 28, 2007)

where is this pic


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## JasonL (May 28, 2007)

I think it should be forum rules that no claims are to be made about new albino Sp. unless photo's are supplied!


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## Twiggz (May 28, 2007)

JasonL said:


> I think it should be forum rules that no claims are to be made about new albino Sp. unless photo's are supplied!


 

I agree.
For all the discussion about something we have not yet seen- proving to exist- really we need to see pics.

I have heard of an albino EWD existing in NSW, not sure of the sex of it though, and believe it to be a few years old. I'm only going off something that was discussed a while back with a pretty respected breeder and have no idea of the accuracy of his statement.

Please post at least one pic for verification.


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## Tatelina (May 28, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> Yes, keeping and breeding yourself would be the best option financially, but i would expect to have similar problems raising the young as seen with the albino Beardies, so it wouldn't be an easy task. It would be a gamble but if you can pull it off you will come out on top.



What problems do you get with raising albino beardies?

I'm waiting for a pic of this water dragon too.


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## Tatelina (May 28, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> here is my albino ewd!



I'll give you $10!


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## Chimera (May 28, 2007)

JasonL said:


> I think it should be forum rules that no claims are to be made about new albino Sp. unless photo's are supplied!



Hey, give the guy a break, he knows how to make an entrance 

njlocksmith, I'd say you'd better make with the photos, your credibility is on the line here


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## Tristis (May 28, 2007)

ive seen a hatchling albino ewd, two young boys found it and tryed to sell it to the pet shop.
the shop didnt want it so they took it home. the lizard was pure white with tiny bits of yellow but it was very very small.


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## chickenman (May 28, 2007)

well it would be awsome to see, if it is infact real, so i cant wait till you post these pictures!


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## dragon_tail (May 28, 2007)

i would LOVE to see this..... and id be happy to purchase it if it goes up for sale?


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## hornet (May 28, 2007)

and what would you offer dragon_tail, if it did go up for sale it could sell for $5000 or more


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## Magpie (May 28, 2007)

I've got hundreds of em running around on my ceiling. Dwarf Albino Climbing Water Dragons.


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## chickenman (May 28, 2007)

lol


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## hornet (May 28, 2007)

lol i'll take 10 mags. The guy would be a fool to sell if he is legit


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## dragon_tail (May 28, 2007)

hornet:i dont get the point of that post mate? not to be rude at all, but if i did purchase it would i have to publicly throw figures around for others entertainment, or better still have to answer to you all and prove i can afford it before discussing it with the person who hasnt even offered it for sale yet? dont get me the wrong way, i dont know you at all and dont want to argue, but i just thought that was a bit silly man. and i dont think if he decides that in his position he would need the money more than the animal, it makes him a fool..... it's just what he needs more hypethetically.... we all have differnt fianacial situations, preferances, needs, personalities, and altimately - lives.


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## hornet (May 28, 2007)

no offence intended mate but i know alot of n00bs say they want an albino something and tell someone they will buy it, then they realise how much they are and have 2 pull out, just making sure you do know what it could go for if it was sold


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## dragon_tail (May 28, 2007)

so based on my post count on an internet site you assume im a noob when it comes to dragons, which i guess most people would do. no offence taken hornet mate, like i said i dont want to argue with someone i dont know, you could be a top bloke for all i know man. But your speculation on price is just exactly that, and so is the existance of the reptile anyways.... ok good luck guys, ill check in for the pic when it crops up, cya!


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## Jonny (May 28, 2007)

njlocksmith,

I was the guy on the AHS stand you were talking about your albino water dragon. I recall you approached a reptile dealer at the show and they showed no interest in it at all.

Yes I saw the pic in the photo competition at castle hill and can verify that it does exist. 

cheers

Jonny


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## da_donkey (May 28, 2007)

NJ where did you get this dragon from??????? if you found it mate and im guessing you might of, i would be very carefull.

Donk


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## herpie boy (May 28, 2007)

what happens then if you are out herping and come across an albino speices, and how do these blokes out their aquire there albinos legitimatly from the wild.


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## chickenman (May 28, 2007)

well (this is just a guess) I would think that you would have to contact national parks and wild life asking for permission to take them out of the wild because they wont be able to survive because of their white colour. Seeing as it would make it almost impossible to camouflage so it would make it easier for them to be eaten, or something like that, correct me if I am wrong.


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## JasonL (May 28, 2007)

"Legitimately" and "from the wild" are not normally seen together, sometimes the words "loop holes" are seen with "from the wild" or mostly no words are used at all and it just came to be.


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## da_donkey (May 28, 2007)

I dont think they would let the average joe do that at all.

There would be dodgy ways to do it, if you dont mind a little law breaking and fraud 

Donk


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## Chimera (May 28, 2007)

herpie boy said:


> what happens then if you are out herping and come across an albino speices, and how do these blokes out their aquire there albinos legitimatly from the wild.



They could take it from the wild, determine sex and buy the other sex to create hets (obviously they would "breed" one less then they actually bred). They would probably keep this quiet over a few generations to avoid suspicion.

I do not advocate this as it would be breaking forum rules, however there are very few avenues for enthusiasts to remove animals from the wild in NSW at least. This would be the likely one to explore as your chance of spotting the albino once would be low, let alone twice.


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## njlocksmith (May 28, 2007)

only a few more hours to go .. till i have you all eating out of my hands...


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## W.T.BUY (May 28, 2007)

We want Pics


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## liasis (May 28, 2007)

come on then pics


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## stringbean (May 28, 2007)

c'mon show us some pics all ready.


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## chickenman (May 28, 2007)

come on its got to be a few hours by now hurry up and take some pictures


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## Splitmore (May 28, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> I don't believe it would. If it has lived this far that should mean that the it is a strong and healthy animals, which would produce a strong and healthy line. There will be albino beardies on the market soon enough, not necessarily from Bob Withey's line...



Kane,
I'd be very surprised if albino beardie ever become established. I've had several in my care over the years and they have all died and so has Bob and a few others. None have even come close to surviving long term. They are probably the most commonly bred reptile in the world so you would assume that if albinos were to survive they would of done so by now.


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## dragon_tail (May 28, 2007)

arent iguanas and turtles more common i mean globally? i dont mean to post this to correct you man, but im interested to know if beardies being australian are so common all over the world? its amazing to me that we are so protective of our wildlife yet we export it with no problems>?!?! weird right? or is it just me?


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## chickenman (May 28, 2007)

well any show i watch that shows some ones reptile collection from over seas they alwas seem to have a beardy.


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## snakesrule (May 28, 2007)

Splitmore said:


> Kane,
> I'd be very surprised if albino beardie ever become established. I've had several in my care over the years and they have all died and so has Bob and a few others. None have even come close to surviving long term. They are probably the most commonly bred reptile in the world so you would assume that if albinos were to survive they would of done so by now.



I thought the subject was about albino eastern water dragons not beardeds


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## Tsidasa (May 28, 2007)

snakesrule said:


> I thought the subject was about albino eastern water dragons not beardeds


The beardies were used as an example of breeding albino animals earlier in the thread, it's just a continuation of that and the logistics of albino ewd offspring surviving.


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## reptyle (May 28, 2007)

cmon, lets see some pics. lol


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## grimbeny (May 28, 2007)

Your running out of times for pics, im already full of doubt


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## eladidare (May 28, 2007)

we want pics we want pics we want pics!


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## mines bigger (May 28, 2007)

eladidare said:


> we want pics we want pics we want pics!


 come on plz give us pics it would be an awesome sight


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## snakesrule (May 28, 2007)

come on ??? either come good with the evidence or just say tricked ya's


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## MrBredli (May 28, 2007)

Patience is a virtue.


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## Tsidasa (May 28, 2007)

especially since the guy ain't online


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## PilbaraPythons (May 28, 2007)

Talking about albino bearded dragons, A good friend of ours who is in charge of the Pogona mitcheli project for True Blue has just asked me a few minutes ago if he can euthanase three of the albinos because they are clearly not responsive enough and have to be forced fed, sometimes lay on their backs and can not get up right unassisted and are generally lethargic. We have agreed that these should be euthanased. Sad, but such is life.

Cheers Dave


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## Splitmore (May 28, 2007)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Talking about albino bearded dragons, A good friend of ours who is in charge of the Pogona mitcheli project for True Blue has just asked me a few minutes ago if he can euthanase three of the albinos because they are clearly not responsive enough and have to be forced fed, sometimes lay on their backs and can not get up right unassisted and are generally lethargic. We have agreed that these should be euthanased. Sad, but such is life.
> 
> Cheers Dave



Dave,
Thats the same way all the albino vitticeps went that I had here. A shame but obviously something that just isn't meant to survive. BTW are those from the same lineage as the ones you gave me?


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## scam7278 (May 28, 2007)

pics please


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## theduclos (May 28, 2007)

Nice one matt. Had me going until i clicked to see the larger image lol. Should really look closer next time.


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## cruester (May 28, 2007)

its true ,albino ewd do exist.there is a population of easterns in the sydney area where albinos do turn up every now and then,and yes i have seen a real live animal from this area about 4 years ago. it was the first and last i saw of this animal and it was in the hands of a non herping father and son who found it while walking in the bush near there house. it was only a hatchy but seemed to be fairly active and healthy looking, so hopefully its a strong line and someone can get them up and breeding. cheers troy


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## Forensick (May 28, 2007)

found online at another aussie reptile forum, by a guy who entered it in a reptile comp.

so assume its the same guy/lizard


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## PilbaraPythons (May 28, 2007)

Cris 
I am not quite sure and you may want to clarify that with Troy. Our friend hatched out 4 albinos with three showing negative traits or problems. The fourth one is a lot more active but not as active as the normal siblings. It does actively thermoregulate its self but still needs assist feeding. Hopefully we can produce a few more like this one but clearly it is going to be a difficult long term challenge to produce a healthy problem free line of albinos and maybe we can’t.

Cheers Dave


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## da_donkey (May 28, 2007)

So is that the one?

Donk


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## Reptile_Boy (May 28, 2007)

if it is the bloke that i train with at KMA then i can vouch that he has it but unsure if it is.....if it is...... he is a realy nice lizard nice red chest and white body with read eyes heis a mad lookin lil boy!


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## Forensick (May 28, 2007)

suprised no one googled it.

was the second result when i searched albino eastern water dragon. in aust

is the guy who owns it called "addy" online, and house it with a turtle?

found it on another forum too (third in google)

"adam" says its male, not ready to breed, not for sale.
and he sold the parents before the egg hatched


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## junglemad (May 28, 2007)

junglemad said:


> interesting thread...come in spinner!!




tails you lose!!


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## Ricko (May 28, 2007)

aka wild caught?? ay forensick? lol


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## GSXR_Boy (May 28, 2007)

Still no pics huh?Damn!!!


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## cuddlykylie (May 28, 2007)

still nothing


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## Forensick (May 28, 2007)

there are pics.
i posted on last page (6)
guy is obviously a member of another site


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## cement (May 28, 2007)

the one inthe picture looks pretty wild


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## cuddlykylie (May 28, 2007)

yes but the guy said he would post pics, thats what we all waiting on


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## njlocksmith (May 28, 2007)

*Lizard with my ugly mate*

This is the photo as promised, the young problem free male albino eastern water dragon. The other photo you see is also the same lizard as posted by Forensick on page 6 (thank you forensick).


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## njlocksmith (May 28, 2007)

Both these photo's are about a year old, So how much do you guys think he is worth?


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## chief (May 28, 2007)

ha ha ha u sure showed every 1 on this site lol


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## MrBredli (May 28, 2007)

Perhaps $10000-25000, hard to say really.


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## Australis (May 28, 2007)

njlocksmith said:


> Both these photo's are about a year old, So how much do you guys think he is worth?




If its legit, and not wild caught, it would be a case of naming your price i imagine.

I reckon in excess of 10k wouldnt be out of the question.


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## cyclamen (May 28, 2007)

wow mate if i ever see you in real life i will apologise without a doubt . you sure showed all of us. and good on your doing it too. great stuff.


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## aurea23 (May 28, 2007)

*ESD price*

Hes a nice animal..... An i am sure the photos do not do him justice......

He is Rare in captivity.....

AS to what he is worth..... As much as someone is prepared to pay..............

SO the average joe/jill would miss out as there are too many people willing to mortgage there house to get one in the hope of a quick dollar from his matings........

I know it doesnt give you a dollar vaule,but i certainly would be buying a green tree python before one of those.... For me personally albino or not its an eastern water dragon. Readily available . Now if it was an albino knobtail..... whooaaa...

LOL.

cheers and good luck 
Michael


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## MrBredli (May 28, 2007)

True it's only an EWD, but the melanistic blueys are only blueys (normally cheaper than EWD) and i'd happily pay $2000+ each for those.


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## Chrisreptile (May 28, 2007)

wow mate hes a nice little dragon


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## Magpie (May 28, 2007)

Can I ask why you think it is a male?


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## Oskorei (May 28, 2007)

SNAP! everyone just got showed up.. excellent EWD there mate, seems your mate has himself a deposit on a house arte a car or 2 either buy sellign it or breeding it


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## njlocksmith (May 28, 2007)

My mate adam (addy, the owner of the lizard) is joining the forum now, just having trouble activating his account, apparently. I guess he'll tell you why he thinks it's a male.


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## Reptile_Boy (May 28, 2007)

i told ya it is true lol the bloke in the pic is my m8 from martial arts he is a decent lookin dragon he has better pics n his phone hehe lol i think 10k up


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## MoreliaMatt (May 28, 2007)

took a few days to get the pic up, were you having troubles with photoshop?

lol 

nice EWD mate!


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## peterjohnson64 (May 28, 2007)

The reason for this post was to find out what this guy is worth. If its a male then it is obviously worth 3 times as much as a female. I say that because he will easily throw 3 times as many het babies this season.

BUT..... I doubt people would tell you what they would be willing to pay for it.

Sure, there are lots of speculators on here that will say what they think it is worth but I would doubt that any of them would hand over the cash if it was offered to them at their stated price. Because of that, I wont tell you what I think it is worth. After all I am unlikely to be a potential buyer so my opinion is worth squat.

If you think that it is worth $10,000 and at that price you would prefer to sell it (one in the hand sort of thing) then offer it for sale. If at $10,000 you would keep it then put it up at $20,000. If no one replies then you know it is worth less than 20k. If you sell it then maybe you didn't ask enough.

But whatever you do either sell it or breed it.

And dont post adds saying things like "urgently wanted - 2 to 3 female water dragons"


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## Hickson (May 28, 2007)

Herpie Boy said:


> what happens then if you are out herping and come across an albino speices, and how do these blokes out their aquire there albinos legitimatly from the wild.





chickenman said:


> well (this is just a guess) I would think that you would have to contact national parks and wild life asking for permission to take them out of the wild because they wont be able to survive because of their white colour. Seeing as it would make it almost impossible to camouflage so it would make it easier for them to be eaten, or something like that, correct me if I am wrong.



NSW NPWS will NOT give you permission to take an albino from the wild. If its mutant colouring will result in a premature death, then so be it. That's natural selection at work.



Hix


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## cma_369 (May 28, 2007)

This is probably not a ewise thing publicising this lizard. You may end up losing loosing this lizard if it does get found out by npws that its illegal, and next think you know snake ranch will have albino easties

But if i were you two i would keep and breed it and not tell anyone that asks where you live...........


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## cma_369 (May 28, 2007)

Hix said:


> NSW NPWS will NOT give you permission to take an albino from the wild. If its mutant colouring will result in a premature death, then so be it. That's natural selection at work.
> 
> 
> 
> Hix


What will happen now with this lizard if the npws get their hands on it?


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## Twiggz (May 28, 2007)

I wonder how many PM's your mate will receive in the first few hours he's online???

Very nice EWD none the less.


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## Hickson (May 29, 2007)

I haven't seen anything to say that this lizard was taken from the wild.

I was simply responding to some statements made by members who were thinking about what would happen if you saw one in the wild.

I'm certainly not suggesting that NJLocksmith or his mate Addy have done that.



dragon_tail said:


> i dont mean to post this to correct you man, but im interested to know if beardies being australian are so common all over the world? its amazing to me that we are so protective of our wildlife yet we export it with no problems>?!?! weird right? or is it just me?



We don't "export with no problems" - you cannot export native wildlife. Only zoos can do that, and only to send to other zoos. Beardies were exported a long time ago before the current laws were in place. And they are very popular in the States and also in the UK. They've been breeding them for years.



Hix


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## method (May 29, 2007)

That is one awsome dragon  wouldn't be prepared to pay an arm or a leg for it though.. well would if i had plenty of spare $ lying around. One can only wish


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## junglemad (May 29, 2007)

junglemad said:


> tails you lose!!



heads you win!!


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## Chimera (May 29, 2007)

Well, I guess you did show everyone 

If you've got all the paperwork in place to show that this is legitimately on license then it will be a case of "name your price", the fact that you have a strong healthy albino dragon will draw interest from at least a few large breeders.

I would also be keeping your address a secret for now too


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## nvenm8 (May 29, 2007)

Chimera said:


> Well, I guess you did show everyone



Not everyone!  



nvenm8 said:


> Mate play your cards close to your chest! You do not have to prove anything to anyone! Even a normal Eastern Water Dragon has a $$ value, so yours is certainly worth somewhat more when you decide to sell the offspring. Wait till you have bred it then post photos, sit back and watch them all froth at the mouth, then name a price and then see that all the kafuffle caused here was mostly caused by jealous tyre kickers :lol: :lol:


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## Morelia_Hunter (May 29, 2007)

As far as I know, from working in the reptile industry in other countries. There are no albino water dragons anywhere else in the world. And i'll be honest, I dont have any problem in telling you how this morph business works. People will tell you its worth nothing only because they would want to knock your price down later or they can see you as a threat to their own business. That animal is invaluable, its the only one of its kind and in most states you would be able to sell its offspring on a basic license. It looks healthy and as far as dealing with albinos and morphs, I can vouch that they are as tough as natural occuring types. You would have to breed it and hold on to all the offspring for a few years though before it can be a financially viable project. Waterdragons aare hardy, big and impressive lizards and I think there would be a much bigger market for them than any blue tongue, or unstable albino bearded dragons! That would make them the safe and attractive and ONLY bet for people who would want to own an albino lizard. The first albino Green iguana was sold for $100000 US. So dont let anyone tell you that one of a kind animal is worth nothing. Its value does not lie in itself but in the potential of it to become established in the market. And fo God sake dont be swayed by petty cash to sell it on. Regards
MH


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

DO NOT SELL!!!

Keep it and start your own breeding project. You are the only person in the world with this type of animal so you have nothing to lose. You wont be able to prove it is a genetically inheritable trait until you cross two siblings or a sibling back to the parent so IMO to reap the full rewards from it you would need to wait a few years yet. 

As to what the off spring are worth, you can set your own price you are the only person with this bloodline. You could even look at auctioning them when the time comes, that way you could definatley get a good price for them. But i would think they would be worth slightly less than albino snakes just because there is a bigger market for snakes than lizards.

But you sure put a few noses out of joint here! Good onya mate!!!


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## nvenm8 (May 29, 2007)

I thought i said that Morelia_Hunter? just without the typers cramp :lol:


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## grimbeny (May 29, 2007)

I would just suggest here that it is imperative you do not release your personal details. Their are people out their that will do crazy stuff for money.


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## geckodan (May 29, 2007)

Lovely little guy. Good luck with the project.

BTW is it you advertising desperately wanting female eastern water dragons on petlink ???


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## Jungle_Freak (May 29, 2007)

thats one cool looking dragon ,
love to see more pics of him or her to help confirm what sex it is 
i hope this eastern water dragon is fast tracked into a breeding programe so dragon lovers have a chance to own such a unique dragon


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## JasonL (May 29, 2007)

It would be worth a stack now, but with the way those things breed, it won't last long, so plan your sales carefully. Good Luck!


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## Morelia_Hunter (May 29, 2007)

Typers cramp!!!! Yes, dont add my 2 cents worth much these days anymore. And no need to prove its genetic, albinism is genetic. Just dont let that bloody georgeous thing die!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant believe the snake ranch did not snatch that up. Im sure you could take better pics too. Just my opinion!!!


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## slim6y (May 29, 2007)

Im just writing here to attach myself to this thread and too see what actually happens in the future of this pretty fly white guy... 

Good luck!


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## Hickson (May 29, 2007)

I would also be breeding the parents again until the albino is big enough to breed - and then breeding him back to one of the parents (for guaranteed hets and albinos).



Hix


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> Typers cramp!!!! Yes, dont add my 2 cents worth much these days anymore. And no need to prove its genetic, albinism is genetic. Just dont let that bloody georgeous thing die!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant believe the snake ranch did not snatch that up. Im sure you could take better pics too. Just my opinion!!!



Not all forms of albinism is genetic. All albinism that i have heard of in reptile so far has been, but there have been forms of non-inheritable albinism, like the albino gorilla i think it was in Sweden?
__________________________________________
Snowflake the gorilla - Barcelona Zoo

Hix


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## -=Surflifesaver=- (May 29, 2007)

Nice lookin EWD !


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## Duke (May 29, 2007)

If I were you, or Adam, or whoever is in charge, I'd get in contact with a respectable breeder who knows their **** quite well.
Then cut a deal with them that you split the earnings from it one way or another.
You get a steady income from the offspring, and the breeder gets boosted up in the hierarchy of known breeders.
Both of you win.

But yeah, like mentioned numerous times, be careful who you deal with.
People have had pythons and other animals stolen because of their value, and most were your common varieties.
Not this one of a kind that's worth thousands.
Make sure your security system is up to scratch.


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

its worth as much as someone is willing to pay,definatly wild caught if u r looking for females to breed with it,lol,now on another thread about albino bredlis, here we have the same case in point,we have an animal,no one gives 2 hoots about,all u are thinking what u can make off of it,ive got no probs with that ,if they sold for the same price as normals,bet the little tyke still b running free,anyways nice looking eastern,be interesting to see what he looks like when mature,how old is it supposed to b,looks quite yoing still,and i cant see it taking to long to flood the market with them,they r prolific breeders and hardy as well,oh i do like the look of some of the albinos,dont get me wrong,wouldnt catch me paying that coin thats all,all the best with the little one,just remember the animal,THE ANIMAL,not what u can get for it,and im curious as to why a reptile dealer would knock it back,sounds odd to me,something to think about,are u licenced to keep?
just my 2 cents


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

I think you would benefit greatly from a couple of full stops and capital letters lol.


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

This is the net,not an assignment my friend.But how does this catch u,lol.

Now do i get better grades,i deserve an A now,pmsl.


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

Well you gat a pass  maybe not an A though.


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

OH,and we will have albino gippsand waterys to before long me thinks.


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

OH,and we will have albino gippsland waterys to before long me thinks.


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

Had to correct my grammer,now im all paranoid.


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

Haha lol a little paranoya goes along way


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

THAT warrants a B at least,surely.


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## Chris1 (May 29, 2007)

i reckon u could pimp him out fro a fair bit to a fair few people, and still get to keep him!!


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## spilota_variegata (May 29, 2007)

I always thought the correct spelling for paranoya was paranoia ... could be wrong


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## dragon_tail (May 29, 2007)

you wont get him back! dont be surprised to see the barrel of a 22 at the door when you go to get him back! (judging by stories on this forum!) just keep it, and move its location and dont tell ANYONE where it is, not even your mates. biggest mistake you can make here is telling your mates what is worth, or bragging- just cause someone may not be into lizards, they still might be into 5-10k


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

spilota_variegata said:


> I always thought the correct spelling for paranoya was paranoia ... could be wrong



I never picked on anyones spelling... just grammar


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## spilota_variegata (May 29, 2007)

*lol*



waruikazi said:


> I never picked on anyones spelling... just grammar



I can't spell and my spelling is atrocious  Not having a dig, I'd be the pot calling the kettle black


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## Inkslinger (May 29, 2007)

richardsc said:


> its worth as much as someone is willing to pay,definatly wild caught if u r looking for females to breed with it,lol,now on another thread about albino bredlis, here we have the same case in point,we have an animal,no one gives 2 hoots about,all u are thinking what u can make off of it,ive got no probs with that ,if they sold for the same price as normals,bet the little tyke still b running free,anyways nice looking eastern,be interesting to see what he looks like when mature,how old is it supposed to b,looks quite yoing still,and i cant see it taking to long to flood the market with them,they r prolific breeders and hardy as well,oh i do like the look of some of the albinos,dont get me wrong,wouldnt catch me paying that coin thats all,all the best with the little one,just remember the animal,THE ANIMAL,not what u can get for it,and im curious as to why a reptile dealer would knock it back,sounds odd to me,something to think about,are u licenced to keep?
> just my 2 cents



Some very salient points there!!


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

Back to the topic,hang on to the beast and ask what u want for hets,or wait it out till u start hatching 50/50,but thats alot of mouths to feed,so maybe sell off to a breeder,do an auction off and set a reserve price,if u want money straight away.And as a previous post said,dont go gloating to many people as like he said,the greed factor could have someone pinch it off you.
good luck with it ,i hope u keep it,and put the time into establishing the morph yourself,that would gain you alot more respect and pay off in the long run


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## spilota_variegata (May 29, 2007)

I think an open auction is the best way if he doesn't want to be ripped off. I bet dozens of people have already PM'd him offering money. A reserve is a good idea.. Personally I'd keep him myself if I were the owner. I've had EWD's before and they breed like rabbits  Good luck to you mate whatever he decides..


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## eladidare (May 29, 2007)

wow! it took a while, but it was worth the wait! 
good show old chap!


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## junglemad (May 29, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> I never picked on anyones spelling... just grammar



maybe you're paranoyd.

Now let's talk about me. How am i going to get myself involved in a breeding loan with my new mate with the albino i disbelieved existed ???


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

maybe we could call the watery paranormal,i keep and breed eastern and blue phased gippys,definatly breed like flies,very hardy little buggas as well,i love them,so wont be hard to breed your self,personally if i owned it id hang on to it,but yes each to there own,be curious to see what someone would pay for it myself,oh and watch the turtle doesnt munch it,would be an expensive meal for it,goumet watery,with a side serve of then the turtle would have albino genes,haha


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

*Here i am people*

Hello everyone, i must say i had a hard time reading all your posts. Firstly i would like to say , damn Njlocksmith, we go to a reptile expo with a picture of my lizard, 1 guy says "hey that would be worth a fair bit", now look what you've done.
Secondly i would like to add that "this is not for sale" This lizard is not just a rare lizard to me, it is my pet. My pet, not only is this lizard a wonderful looking reptile but as far as reptiles go he also has alot of character. example, you are able to feed him from hand, but if you are me feeding or handling him he coperates. if not he is abit reluctant. 

Yes i am interested in breeding him and no i do not intend or expect to make a furtune, or even any real profit out of him at all. And further more, he is young and i don't yet have a female, or the appropriate enclosure. And finally, yes NJlocksmith took he's sweet time getting you a picture, but thats because i was at work and only i had the photo, even though someone else thought googled it..


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## spilota_variegata (May 29, 2007)

Good on you addy. You do what you feel is best  Don't fall for the "I'll give you a free enclosure for a baby," or "I'll give you a female for the same," type of offer. I'm sure there are many unscrupulous people that will try this. If you do decide to breed (your choice), charge whatever you are happy with  Beautiful lizard - I, amongst others - am very jealous.


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## Chimera (May 29, 2007)

Good luck mate, everyone here hopes you'll breed him but as has been said, BE CAREFUL WITH WHO YOU TRUST!!!


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## Auzlizardking (May 29, 2007)

spilota_variegata said:


> Good on you addy. You do what you feel is best  Don't fall for the "I'll give you a free enclosure for a baby," or "I'll give you a female for the same," type of offer. I'm sure there are many unscrupulous people that will try this. If you do decide to breed (your choice), charge whatever you are happy with  Beautiful lizard - I, amongst others - am very jealous.



I was joking


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## richardsc (May 29, 2007)

glad to hear its your cherished pet addy,glad u r keeping him to,and if u want to make a little money down the track there is nothing wrong with that,good luck with him and will be nice to see his adult coloration


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## da_donkey (May 29, 2007)

Welcome to the site Addy (finaly:lol: ).

You do have a great pet there mate, as long as your looking after it properly good on you.

Some more pics would be great.

Cheers 

Donk.


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## Forensick (May 29, 2007)

and if you don't wanna make money....
i'll give you $50 for a baby and give it an awesome home.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

This guy is offering me a free enclosure., i am trully complimented by the offer, thank you. But considering it comes insackly 10 minutes after chimera cautions me on who to trust, i must ask, why?. i obviously have an enclosure for him, but not one for breeding purposes. I mean, are you made of lizard enclosures? because i am not made of albino water dragons. 

If your offer is genuine, i'm sure we can make an arragement, there isn't much that comes free.


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> This guy is offering me a free enclosure., i am trully complimented by the offer, thank you. But considering it comes insackly 10 minutes after chimera cautions me on who to trust, i must ask, why?. i obviously have an enclosure for him, but not one for breeding purposes. I mean, are you made of lizard enclosures? because i am not made of albino water dragons.
> 
> If your offer is genuine, i'm sure we can make an arragement, there isn't much that comes free.



You may not be made of them yet. But soon they will make you!


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## Chimera (May 29, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> You may not be made of them yet. But soon they will make you!




HAHA too true


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## Auzlizardking (May 29, 2007)

Quote: or the appropriate enclosure.


I thought you didn't have a very good enclosure to house him so I was trying to help out.
You need to pick it up though and I don't care if you feel I'm after EWD.
I was joking with your mate in an earlier post.
I do give my enclosure away (same times) or donate them.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Forensick said:


> and if you don't wanna make money....
> i'll give you $50 for a baby and give it an awesome home.



Well i just don't expect to make money out of this project. Look at it this way

1, i don't believe in keeping 1 meter lizards in 90 cm cages. i spent a small fortune custom building his current enclosure. a 2 meter fish tank with a divider mid way so i could provide will with 50% land 50% water. and the tank stand, and other peices, lamp, pump etc. It adds up. And soon he'll out grow that enclosure. 

2, i want to keep a strong blood line, so i won't be breeding children back with the parent, then to another sibling, then that child back to a parent or any rediculous combination like that. No wonder you hear of unreasponsive albino beadies that need to be put down, who's cruel show is that? keeping a strong blood line means adding at least 3 other unrelated water dragons into the equation. And i have to house them all in enviroments that allow them to develop.

3. My friend NJlocksmith is my partner in this project and he too will need to cover costs for time and resources.


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## Australis (May 29, 2007)

Did you breed it? or catch it?


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## MrBredli (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> 2, i want to keep a strong blood line, so i won't be breeding children back with the parent, then to another sibling, then that child back to a parent or any rediculous combination like that. No wonder you hear of unreasponsive albino beadies that need to be put down, who's cruel show is that? keeping a strong blood line means adding at least 3 other unrelated water dragons into the equation. And i have to house them all in enviroments that allow them to develop.


 
Well if you don't line breed you're not going to end up with any albino hatchlings.. it is the only way to do it.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

This project will be expensive and time consuming, making a profit that i can boast about is dowbtfull. and consider that people will not pay the large figures that were thrown around at the reptile expo and this forum. especially when next season there will be a new batch. And how could anyone actually ask for such a price? seriously. and who has ever paid of a house breeding reptiles?.. yes i need to make enough to justify the room it will take up in my house and backyard, and yes NJ and i need to cover costs. But i am soo not making the fortune people think i'll make.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> Well if you don't line breed you're not going to end up with any albino hatchlings.. it is the only way to do it.




i know i have to line breed!...duh!!!!, but not line breeding siblings to parents for 3 generations then selling them off in pairs so the next guy can do that same. where does that trend end?


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## MrBredli (May 29, 2007)

You breed the female siblings back to the father so that you get your first albino hatchies. They can then be bred with unrelated normal lizards producing 100% hets with new blood.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Ok, thank you mrbredli. But can any of you see the trend of inline breeding i am trying to avoid.?! Just to let people know i did study genetics as apart of biology at school, and still have my notes. And just to keep me up to date i have a friend with a degree in enviromental science and now i have this forum. not to mention i did actually breed the thing to begin with. So i should be ok.


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## MrBredli (May 29, 2007)

Not really, the problems associated with the albino Beardies are not related to inbreeding. Reptiles can be inbred for many many generations with no ill effect.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Ok, cool. lets just skip the debate. and can we also skip this "you caught it didn't you crap". Can someone please tell me how many albino reptiles they have viewed in the wild? considering they have less chance of making it to adult hood. there seems less chance in catching one.

to continue i understand that people want albino water dragons on the market fast, so do i. And if they are going to have my name attached to them i want them all healthy. So, with no mass breeding experience myself, i want to be carfull.


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## jordo (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> Ok, thank you mrbredli. But can any of you see the trend of inline breeding i am trying to avoid.?! Just to let people know i did study genetics as apart of biology at school, and still have my notes. And just to keep me up to date i have a friend with a degree in enviromental science and now i have this forum. not to mention i did actually breed the thing to begin with. So i should be ok.



Nice lizard.
MrB. is correct, the problem with albino beardies is (I pressume) because there is a deadly recessive allele closely linked to the albino locus hence all albinos die because they are also homozygous for the deadly allele. It's indirectly related to inbreeding but only occurred by chance basically so it was very unlucky and it's very rare in herps to have these mutations. The chance of your albino having the same problem is extremely slim.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

strange how talking to american reptile breeders, i get diffrent answers.


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## MrBredli (May 29, 2007)

Different answers to what questions?


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> Ok, cool. lets just skip the debate. and can we also skip this "you caught it didn't you crap". Can someone please tell me how many albino reptiles they have viewed in the wild? considering they have less chance of making it to adult hood. there seems less chance in catching one.
> 
> to continue i understand that people want albino water dragons on the market fast, so do i. And if they are going to have my name attached to them i want them all healthy. So, with no mass breeding experience myself, i want to be carfull.


Who did you buy it off then??

Your not denying that you caught it either just asking us to skip this point.................

I refuse to believe this is legitimate as if you were able to get a hold of this lizard, a few other people around these forums would have had to oppurtunity to get a hold of this over you.....

Should have just kept this quiet for a few more years eh?


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> Different answers to what questions?


Maybe theyre offering more for it to be exported?:lol:


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

excuse me cma 369? i have already said i breed him. i don't care what you believe. he is just like any other water dragon except albino. how is it hard to beleive he is legit? i don't remember questioning anyone over there reptiles. and at the australian frog and reptile expo i got no questions from the organisers, snake ranch or the herp society that i also spoke to about him. In fact many people knew it was me that owned him. even the people from the national parks and wildlife were there, so why i am being questioned by you?!


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## Rennie (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> not to mention i did actually breed the thing to begin with.



Did you miss this???

Can people not get over the fact that only one person has the first albino EWD? Just because the whole clutch didn't come out albino, or because they haven't pumped out 100 clutches by now, it must be wild caught? Get over it!

Good on you Addy, beautiful dragon you have there. Good luck to your breeding program, I hope you do make a bit to make it worthwhile for you.


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> excuse me cma 369? i have already said i breed him. i don't care what you believe. he is just like any other water dragon except albino. how is it hard to beleive he is legit? i don't remember questioning anyone over there reptiles. and at the australian frog and reptile expo i got no questions from the organisers, snake ranch or the herp society that i also spoke to about him. In fact many people knew it was me that owned him. even the people from the national parks and wildlife were there, so why i am being questioned by you?!


Just wondering where it came form lol.

I never saw where you said you bred it so sorry for missing this if you have.

Just a curious person thats all good on you if you did breed it...


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> Different answers to what questions?



on a diffrent forum i was talking about breeding him. an american forum. the breeders there spoke of genetic straites that become apparent when no new blood lines are introduced. often desirable straites such as colouring, but also weak ones as well. Now with me reciting the whole conversation, the general gist was that despite being wildly practiced, such breeding can produce malformed offspring and it should be avoided. But at the same time, i can't afford not in line breed for a few generations. i just want to keep new bllod types in there. 

That being said, mrbredli if you want an albino offspring that was produced directly from sibling to parent. then sibling to sibling again, i will breed one for you. if you can wait a few seasons. and no i won't charge several thousand.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

cma_369 said:


> Just wondering where it came form lol.
> 
> I never saw where you said you bred it so sorry for missing this if you have.
> 
> Just a curious person thats all good on you if you did breed it...




i kinda snaped abit there didn't i....sorry bout that, just abit edgy over the big breeding program ahead of me.


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> i kinda snaped abit there didn't i....sorry bout that, just abit edgy over the big breeding program ahead of me.


Its aight,

You will be charging a fair bit though a a fair few people will be willing to pay abit for one, and i think you have to breed them lie mr b suggested if you want any more albinos, unless you can get another albino to pair it with.

I probably wouldnt mind an albino ewd down the track when i could afford it, but a "pepper" phase bluie will always be ahead on the list


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

put it this way, the first person i sell to will start to breed as well. The price might be high at first because we will need to cover costs. But the availability will increase as more people breed them. i'm not charging an arm and a leg.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Rennie said:


> Did you miss this???
> 
> Can people not get over the fact that only one person has the first albino EWD? Just because the whole clutch didn't come out albino, or because they haven't pumped out 100 clutches by now, it must be wild caught? Get over it!
> 
> Good on you Addy, beautiful dragon you have there. Good luck to your breeding program, I hope you do make a bit to make it worthwhile for you.




Thank you


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> put it this way, the first person i sell to will start to breed as well. The price might be high at first because we will need to cover costs. But the availability will increase as more people breed them. i'm not charging an arm and a leg.


Exactly, but you will be where its all happening for a few years so you can charge whatever you want and the buyer will pay. 

If you are not going to charge an arm and a leg i wouldnt mind 1 when they become avalible


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## Tatelina (May 29, 2007)

addy said:


> so why i am being questioned by you?!


If you have nothing to worry about, you don't need to try and prove yourself to someone who doesn't mean anything to you.


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## MrSpike (May 29, 2007)

addy, good stuff with this fella. Personally I won't be one to PM you about some albino or het hatchies, not because I don't want any, but because I think that there will be a price tag to them that only certain people can afford, down the track when there are more and more there will be some in my collection, I can guarantee it

Second of all with the issues of the weak albino beardies, I wasn't going to reply to it, but it is something to do with THAT LINE of albino's that are week, that doesn't mean there aren't other stronger lines of albino beardies out there.

With Auzlizardking's comment about swapping a hatchies from an enclosure, i think that it is a reasonable offer. If he is willing to give you a tank, for an adult water dragon to be housed in as an adult indoors, its a bargain, because god knows it wont be a small enclosure, and I personally would give him one or 2 of the 100% hatchies, if its competition your worried about he will have to wait at least 4 or so years before he will be popping out albinos, because he would have to breed the het to a normal then keep all of the hatchies and breed them all back to the het, to produce some albinos (if he even gets any het babies).

Keep up the good work, and I am awaiting the day there are some albino waters on the market!

Kane


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

he wasn't the first, thats all


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## cma_369 (May 29, 2007)

Just ignore them all its way too early to be organising deals like that...

How old is the lizard anyways?


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## Hickson (May 29, 2007)

Addy,

Before you even think about breeding from this guy, or getting in new blood, you need to increase the genetic diversity of your founder stock ASAP. And prove that this is a heritable trait.



Hix


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Well he was like....2 in the photo, and that pic is a year old. i should take some new pictures. i just thought it was a good picture.


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## MrBredli (May 29, 2007)

If he's 3 years old he could probably be breeding this season.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

Hix said:


> Addy,
> 
> Before you even hink about breeding from this guy, or getting in new blood, you need to increase the genetic diversity of your founder stock ASAP. And prove that this is a heritable trait.
> 
> ...


 
What? albinoism is heritable. What are you suggesting?


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## junglemad (May 29, 2007)

Nice lizard Ad. I like that he is your pet. He will be able to service plenty of females when he gets to breeding age. I hope you get plenty of hatchies. Don't discount line breeding if you have access to female siblings


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> If he's 3 years old he could probably be breeding this season.


 thats what i'm hoping. after winter he should be ready, fingers crossed. waiting another season would be painful.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

thanks jungleman


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## Hickson (May 29, 2007)

There are many different forms of albinism. And it might not be a mutation of the colour gene that has caused his colour loss.

I can't explain more because it's late, I've forgotten much of what I learnt, and my textbooks are all in storage. But I do know that genetics is not as cut-and-dry as everyone seems to think, and albinos have been produced that did not pass on their traits.

I'm not saying this is the case, just that you need to confirm it. Someone has already mentioned Snowflake the Gorilla.



Hix


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## Miss B (May 29, 2007)

Very unique dragon you've got there addy, best of luck with your breeding plans. Keep us updated! Just out of curiosity, what's the little fella's name?


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

oh i forgot to mention his name! after failing to create a name that i was happy with, and in turn refering to him simply as "lizard", his name ultimately became. "lizar'd. there is an emphasis on the "a", or may it is on the 'R". ....lizar`d.


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## cement (May 29, 2007)

Good luck Addy.
Just remember you got time mate. It is exciting and everyone loves a good luck story, but sleep on it, get the facts from all angles and then plan your strategy based on good info. Be the quite achiever mate, you got heaps of time. One day at a time, enjoy the journey I'm looking forward to how this turns out over the next few years. Man this hobby is going nuts!!


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## theduclos (May 29, 2007)

Judging by a sticky in this forum about someone who had their GTP's stolen at gun point personally i would be investing seriously into a high tech home security system including multiple cameras on CCTV. If you had a good credit rating it may well be worth getting a loan to pay for your set up so you have to cut no corners whilst getting everything ready for breeding. I would think that with people getting 10k+ for GTP's (which arent 1 of a kind) then your EWD should easily reach that figure. By playing your cards right this could almost work out to be your lotto ticket. Do your best to keep your address or anything relating you back to where you live away from anybody you speak to about these lizards, and if/when you get the alarm installed i would keep the lizard at your mates house (if its a viable option) I mean who knows. I wouldnt enjoy beeing greeted at the door with a loaded shot-gun. Visible cameras and Dummy cameras can avoid people in those circles becoming too tempted.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

thanks for the advice, he is well garded, and the friends also experienced in reptiles are very close. And reptile_boy mentioned, "i know the owner of this lizard from martial arts training", Anyone who comes to my house looking for trouble will get it. If they think they can forcebly take my lizard. They will need the sale money to replace their teeth.


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## theduclos (May 29, 2007)

Was going to mention the martial arts, but wasnt too sure if he was BSing or not so i left it out. lol.

Edit: What is guarding your house when you are not home? Just a thought.

Edit2: Is it possible yet to implant your snake with a GPS style tracker (not a microchip) but something that will give its location if it is stolen. I have no idea if its a viable option, all the trackers i have ever seen are rather obvious and not small enough to be implanted.


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## addy (May 29, 2007)

a gps tracker...lol


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## Midol (May 29, 2007)

No small enough GPS trackers yet.


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## theduclos (May 30, 2007)

Lol, it was only a question. Though i had said enough to make it seem like im not a moron lol. I was just querying it as i havnt heard of em but knew that somebody will make a mint when they do.


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## Morelia_Hunter (May 30, 2007)

There has never been an instance in reptiles where the albino gene was not genetic. And this is not a gorilla forum its a reptile forum. I'm stating what has been found in reptile albinism studies. Still is a good idea to prove it though. I know that if I had an animal like that I would not have year old pics to show off at a reptile expo or on the net, especially as those lizards get more impressive as they get older. Where are the new pics?


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## hornet (May 30, 2007)

addy said:


> thanks for the advice, he is well garded, and the friends also experienced in reptiles are very close. And reptile_boy mentioned, "i know the owner of this lizard from martial arts training", Anyone who comes to my house looking for trouble will get it. If they think they can forcebly take my lizard. They will need the sale money to replace their teeth.



umm mate, if someone comes to rob you for a $20,000 lizards i dont think they are going to come bare handed, your not going to have much chance taking on a guy with a loaded shotgun.


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## waruikazi (May 30, 2007)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> There has never been an instance in reptiles where the albino gene was not genetic. And this is not a gorilla forum its a reptile forum. I'm stating what has been found in reptile albinism studies. Still is a good idea to prove it though. I know that if I had an animal like that I would not have year old pics to show off at a reptile expo or on the net, especially as those lizards get more impressive as they get older. Where are the new pics?



I know it's not a gorilla forum lol  I'm just making the point that it may or maynot be inheritable. I know the likelihood is high of it being a gene that will be passed onto the offspring. But there is a chance that it isn't inheritable.


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## waruikazi (May 30, 2007)

hornet said:


> umm mate, if someone comes to rob you for a $20,000 lizards i dont think they are going to come bare handed, your not going to have much chance taking on a guy with a loaded shotgun.



As long as he remembers the teaching of the martial arts legend Barry Dawson- The Cougar, he will be fine.

Always trust your Man-Stincts.


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## stencorp69 (May 30, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> I think you would benefit greatly from a couple of full stops and capital letters lol.


 
Yep, that post was unreadable.


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## Inkslinger (May 30, 2007)

Have your animal microchipped


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## oz snake (May 30, 2007)

very nice eastern water dragon you have there.


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## JasonL (May 30, 2007)

Inkslinger said:


> Have your animal microchipped



Well worth it! esp as it should live the best part of 50 years.


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## Bigweem (May 30, 2007)

addy said:


> This project will be expensive and time consuming, making a profit that i can boast about is dowbtfull. and consider that people will not pay the large figures that were thrown around at the reptile expo and this forum. especially when next season there will be a new batch. And how could anyone actually ask for such a price? seriously. and who has ever paid of a house breeding reptiles?.. yes i need to make enough to justify the room it will take up in my house and backyard, and yes NJ and i need to cover costs. But i am soo not making the fortune people think i'll make.




I have, not just paid off, but built and owned the day I moved in, dont kid yourself.


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## Southside Morelia (May 30, 2007)

Good on you addy, there are alot of people that will TRY to take advantage, definately micro-chip and possibly look into insurance if that's at all possible!
And coming from someone with over 20yrs exp in the arts, don't advertise that also...
Good luck mate...
Scott


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## Bug collector (May 30, 2007)

"Man-Stinks." hahahahhahahaha yay


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## cobb (May 30, 2007)

how did you get him?


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## junglemad (May 30, 2007)

i was checking out the pic again and again especially as i was sceptical...how is the stance on this guy?...he has his head up with eye looking into the camera. His scaly biceps are bulging and he has a ferocious chest split going. Top little l'zard or whatever his name is ( is it Klingon?)


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## chickenman (May 31, 2007)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> There has never been an instance in reptiles where the albino gene was not genetic. And this is not a gorilla forum its a reptile forum. I'm stating what has been found in reptile albinism studies.



if i remember correctly Shane, from Shane’s aussie pythons, showed me a picture of his black headed python that had turned white after falling ill or something like that so i guess it can be non genetic. But yeah if Shane is on he might be able to tell you more or maybe some one who knows him better.

But yeah that is an awesome reptile it would be good to see more recent pictures though.


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## Retic (May 31, 2007)

To my knowledge all forms of albinism in reptiles is inheritable, snakes turning white is albinism and their eyes aren't red.


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## Sammccarthy (May 31, 2007)

can we see more photos of him he looks great but id like to see more.

sam.


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## MoreliaMatt (May 31, 2007)

JasonL said:


> Well worth it! esp as it should live the best part of 50 years.



50 years for a water dragon?????


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## junglepython2 (Jun 4, 2007)

nice animal addy, don't let people take advantage of you.

Out of curiosity how many clutch mates did he have?


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## Jozz (Jun 6, 2007)

Have you got any pictures of him as a hatchie?


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## da_donkey (Jun 6, 2007)

Jozz said:


> Have you got any pictures of him as a hatchie?


 
I doubt it


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## Jozz (Jun 6, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I doubt it


 
If he bred him he would have


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## da_donkey (Jun 6, 2007)

Jozz said:


> If he bred him he would have


 
I know


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## MoreliaMatt (Jun 6, 2007)

you might get a resized version of the same pic... lol!!!


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## Khagan (Jun 6, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> you might get a resized version of the same pic... lol!!!



I managed to find a hatching pic!


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## Tsidasa (Jun 6, 2007)

Khagan said:


> I managed to find a hatching pic!


LMAO! nice one. :lol:


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## Luke_G (Jun 6, 2007)

Hi addy,

After reading all those 16 pages im finally at the end lol. Mate good luck with the breeding project, awesum Water dragon you have, and i hope he and he's offspring bring you much joy. BTW it is great to see people in the hobby that arnt just after the $$$$$$$. Once again good luck mate.

Cheers Luke


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## JasonL (Jun 7, 2007)

MoreliaMatt said:


> 50 years for a water dragon?????



Ken Griffiths has had one for 47 years, he told me last year it wasn't looking the best so he may not still have it.


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## Miss B (Aug 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Out of curiosity how many clutch mates did he have?


 
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I was reading through this one again today and wondering the same thing as junglepython2. I understand that Addy says he bred this dragon himself, selling the parents before the egg/s hatched. So... where are the siblings? Surely this dragon was not the only egg and subsequently the only hatchling? Perhaps it's the sceptic in me, but something about the story doesn't seem quite right. Photos of this dragon as a hatchling would prove that he was indeed bred by Addy. Surely if you managed to breed an albino dragon, you would take lots of pics!

And where's those updated pics of the dragon now, seeing as the ones posted previously were at least a year old. I know Addy has been online recently. Let's see 'em!


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## Retic (Aug 15, 2007)

To be honest I have no problem with where the animal came from, it is another albino in the system and that is a good thing.


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## Miss B (Aug 15, 2007)

Even if it was wild-caught, if you're going to admit that you own it and make up a story about how it came to be in your possession, you'd wanna make sure the story was pretty watertight  I'm just curious, is all.


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## herpie boy (Aug 15, 2007)

who cares if it was wild caught,if one of the big names in the herp game found it, no-one would say a word let alone question them.


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## -Peter (Aug 15, 2007)

herpie boy said:


> who cares if it was wild caught,if one of the big names in the herp game found it, no-one would say a word let alone question them.


 

I would, have done and do. We dont all sit on our hands.


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## lilmissrazz (Aug 15, 2007)

Sorry in advance.... I'm pretty new to the whole herp thing and he hasn't said he caught it but i don't see a prob if its wild caught (besides legally) I mean didn't he save it really.... it would have stuck out like a sore thumb... I may just be a big sucker but i would rather see it survive than be harmed in the wild... and i know people say its natures way.... nature also does lots of stuff to people like disease and we don't just sit back and go Meh we do something about it.... just my opinion


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## pugsly (Aug 15, 2007)

Im with Duke.

Make a deal with a known breeder of these things, benefits everyone really. You still own it and can make some cash too. Then the whole herp community can benefit!

Personally, Im not realy a fan of it.. Darwin craps on it. lol

But thats not to say I wouldn't mind one in the collection!

I have also heard the story Troy noted on page 1342214! There are some out there in Sydney and Im sure it wont be the last one that 'pops' up.


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## jackelias2323 (Aug 15, 2007)

thats a nice looking animal mate 

keep it 

breed it 

and sell the offspring.

17 pages of replys you know you'll have a big market to sell to.. 

regards 

jack elias.


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## oniddog (Aug 16, 2007)

goodluck mate with the program , he's awsome !
when they becum avaliable would definatly want 2 giv a little fella a rock 2 chill on!
Love E WaterDragons , the little monsters haha
He's A champ, will for sure be keeping an eye out for em!


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I cant believe all the do-gooders out there who cry about wild caught reptiles. I have absolutley no problems with people collecting reptiles from the wild, illegally or legal, as long as they are keeping them for themselves or a mate, and not just making a profit. I'd like to see all these people who say it's wrong knock back something offered to them for free if they were told it was collected from the bush. Not likely. Look how many reptiles die on our roads every day. Collecting from the wild, whether illegally or legally, is like a drop in the ocean. Apart from a very few specialised species like broadheads, collecting by private keepers has no effect on the majority of species what so ever.


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## cris (Aug 16, 2007)

Without a doubt the most boring looking dragon i have ever seen. 
Is it true that albino dragons cant tolerate sun light?


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## cma_369 (Aug 16, 2007)

boa said:


> To be honest I have no problem with where the animal came from, it is another albino in the system and that is a good thing.


 
Miss B if you read the thread i was asking the same questions at the beginning

I dont really have a problem where it came from neither as boa said, tis a good thing


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## Miss B (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I cant believe all the do-gooders out there who cry about wild caught reptiles.


 
Am I one of these do-gooders you are whinging about? 

I think some people are missing my point. The albino EWD may be have been taken from the wild illegally, who knows, I could really care less. 

What I'm saying is, if you are going to confirm that you do in fact have the animal in your possession, you really need to have a watertight story about how you came to aquire it. I just think the story doesn't quite make sense, and that if it is a 'story' - perhaps the story should have been a little more solid.

And cma_369 - sorry, I didn't notice your earlier posts! I see that Addy chose not to respond to your queries though


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

Why do you need a story? The NPWS dont give a rats where it's from. Why do people think the authorities care so much? It's just a lizard, people freak me out how paranoid they are.


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## cris (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> Why do you need a story? The NPWS dont give a rats where it's from. Why do people think the authorities care so much? It's just a lizard, people freak me out how paranoid they are.



When its something worth this much i would be supprised if they didnt take an interest in it...


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I'd be surprised if they knew what an EWD looked like. If their so concerned because of it's value, which i believe they wouldnt have a clue about, wouldnt they be working with the tax department regarding all the people buying & selling expensive pythons and not paying tax on them? I know of half a dozen blokes making very good money off reptiles and not paying tax. It's on their books for all to see. As long as you send your annual fee to them they dont want to know whats going on.


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## Miss B (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> As long as you send your annual fee to them they dont want to know whats going on.


 
My partner works for the ATO and that is far from true, trust me


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I saw something on A Current Affair a few months back on the subject. It said the ATO was right onto expensive reptile breeders and was planning a shakeup of the industry. I was thinking it was a media beat up as usual. But not so eh? This will be interesting to see.


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## Miss B (Aug 16, 2007)

A lot of people think they can fool the ATO. Good luck to them, that's all I will say


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## zulu (Aug 16, 2007)

*re albino*

Yep Ryano npws dont care about tax its not there business and they dont care whether a water dragon is albino or not they onley respond maybe if they get a complaint but its more likely they worry about green and gold bell frogs and broad heads etc.If some thing can get a picture in the paper or secure more funding they are into it,HaHa BOY RESCUES WHITE DRAGON FROM STORM DRAIN,theyd have it put down anyway incase it had jimmy germs. :lol:


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

So true Zulu.


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## Australis (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I'd be surprised if they knew what an EWD looked like.



LOL! Gold!

I think they would know what one looked like, stil funny.. haha


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## cheyno (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I'd be surprised if they knew what an EWD looked like. If their so concerned because of it's value, which i believe they wouldnt have a clue about, wouldnt they be working with the tax department regarding all the people buying & selling expensive pythons and not paying tax on them? I know of half a dozen blokes making very good money off reptiles and not paying tax. It's on their books for all to see. As long as you send your annual fee to them they dont want to know whats going on.


 
You might be suprised mate. There are people on here, paying members, who actually work for NPWS, and know quite a lot about the herp trade, and what is going on. Just be careful what you say.


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I dont give a rats what anyone from NPWS hears me say. I'm the least of their problems. Their like everyone else, it's just a job, and they just want to get paid and go home like everyone else. Private reptile keepers should be the last of their concerns.


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## Sanchez (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I dont give a rats what anyone from NPWS hears me say. I'm the least of their problems. Their like everyone else, it's just a job, and they just want to get paid and go home like everyone else. Private reptile keepers should be the last of their concerns.



Settle down:x


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

BrendanS said:


> Settle down:x


Meow


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## cheyno (Aug 16, 2007)

BrendanS said:


> Settle down:x


 
I agree.


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm quite settled. As usual on this site, as soon as someone gives an honest opinion that goes against the grain, a bunch of people start freaking out. You blokes should settle down.


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## cheyno (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I'd like to see all these people who say it's wrong knock back something offered to them for free if they were told it was collected from the bush. Not likely....
> 
> Collecting from the wild, whether illegally or legally, is like a drop in the ocean. Apart from a very few specialised species like broadheads, collecting by private keepers has no effect on the majority of species what so ever.


 
Firstly, I would never take anything offered to me, no matter what it was, if it had been illegally collected from the wild. 

Secondly, your point about collecting being a drop in the ocean, if every keeper in NSW was to go out and start collecting what ever they wanted from the wild, soon there would be very few wild specimens left. Hardly a drop in the ocean. 

And the bit about colecting by private keepers having no effect on the majority of species what so ever. Why don't you come out and see the damage that the (not allowed to use appropriate word) collecting geckos have done in some of the national parks around sydney. Huge areas where every possible hide has been turned over and or smashed apart so that these idiots can get a few geckos and make a few dollars. And most of the time, this is destroying prime habitat for other species such as broad-headed snakes which are reliant upon these hides and the geckos as a food source.

Wake up to yourself mate.


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

I disagree Cheyno. If every private keeper went bush and collected some reptiles to keep you wouldnt even know the difference. And that would never happen even if it was legal to do so. Too many of todays keepers are scared to leave the big smoke. The damage you talk about is usually done by blokes looking for broadheads that also take geckoes for snake food and to sell to other keepers. Plus juvenile vandals that have nothing to do with reptiles also cause damage. I did actually say that certain species such as broadheads are affected. BUT, the vast majority of species would not be troubled at all.


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## chickenman (Aug 16, 2007)

but then again ryano if people were aloud to go and collect reptiles from the bush it would make it much more easyer to get reptiles hence there would be more people keeping reptiles so then more reptiles will go..


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

cheyno said:


> Firstly, I would never take anything offered to me, no matter what it was, if it had been illegally collected from the wild.


Your a good man Cheyno. Salt of the earth. FOS. You wouldnt own a reptile if people hadnt illegally taken them from the wild originally. Wakeup son.


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

Miss B said:


> A lot of people think they can fool the ATO. Good luck to them, that's all I will say



The ATO  you could fool most of the public servants that work there with three walnut shells and a pea MissB :lol:


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## Hetty (Aug 16, 2007)

Miss B, what do you mean by 'fool the ATO'?

I thought there was no tax on reptiles.


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## Miss B (Aug 16, 2007)

I meant the ATO as a whole.

Some of them are a bit daft, yes, but you get that anywhere. Which dep't of the ATO do you usually deal with? My man was working in Campaigns, but has recently transferred to Insolvency.


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## bump73 (Aug 16, 2007)

Sorry to jump into this one but it's kind of related in a way... How do you go about getting a licence to collect animals from the wild? 
I see alot of people claiming to have animals that are LEGALLY taken from the wild and was wondering who's doing the collecting?
I think it would be a bit unfair if the only people allowed to do this are commercial sellers as they would truely taking them for a profit, which in my book is worse than someone taking for their own collection...
I'm probably totally wrong in this but i really have no idea as to how this licensing works..
Ben


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## Rennie (Aug 16, 2007)

bump73 said:


> Sorry to jump into this one but it's kind of related in a way... How do you go about getting a licence to collect animals from the wild?
> I see alot of people claiming to have animals that are LEGALLY taken from the wild and was wondering who's doing the collecting?
> I think it would be a bit unfair if the only people allowed to do this are commercial sellers as they would truely taking them for a profit, which in my book is worse than someone taking for their own collection...
> I'm probably totally wrong in this but i really have no idea as to how this licensing works..
> Ben



In this state, basically only rescuers (WIRES, etc.) can I think, in WA and NT it is easier to get a takers permit.


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## Sanchez (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> Your a good man Cheyno. Salt of the earth. FOS. You wouldnt own a reptile if people hadnt illegally taken them from the wild originally. Wakeup son.


Shows just how smart you are. Back when most of these were taken from the wild there was no laws regarding collection of reptiles. So how was this illegal?


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

BrendanS said:


> Shows just how smart you are. Back when most of these were taken from the wild there was no laws regarding collection of reptiles. So how was this illegal?


Are you sure about that Einstein? You blokes crack me up. I suppose you's all believe in Santa,god and the Tooth Fairy. You've been in the game 5 minutes and cant be told anything.


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

Miss B said:


> I meant the ATO as a whole.
> Some of them are a bit daft, yes, but you get that anywhere. Which dep't of the ATO do you usually deal with? My man was working in Campaigns, but has recently transferred to Insolvency.


I mainly deal with Taxation and Practice Management sections, Tax Law and advice sections, Practice Management etc etc etc 
The so called 'think tank' they had a few years back which was supposed to be like an ATO version of power rangers comprising their smartest and most knowlegable minds. they took 3-4 days to answer each question we asked and even then they never knew the answer  
But there are some nice and helpful people working there and overall its ok I guess


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## Sanchez (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> Are you sure about that Einstein? You blokes crack me up. I suppose you's all believe in Santa,god and the Tooth Fairy. You've been in the game 5 minutes and cant be told anything.


You know bugger all about me mate.


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## bump73 (Aug 16, 2007)

OK everyone to their corner

Right... Now big group hug

AAHH that's better is'nt it:lol::lol:


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

BrendanS said:


> Back when most of these were taken from the wild there was no laws regarding collection of reptiles. So how was this illegal?


As long as I can remember its been illegal in NSW to take reptiles from the wild. Thats going back to around 1989-1990. before that I assume it was the same. Back around 1990 if you did not already have a reptile keepers licence, you couldn't get one as the NSW NPWS had a stop on issuing new licences for some reason or another. But you were at that time allowed to possess 2 legally obtained reptiles from a list they had. Which meant that if a licence holder gave you a reptile it was ok. In those days it was illegal to sell reptiles for money but they changed hands by swapping or just giving them to someone. 
In those days as in was hard to get animals from breeders.From memory, you could only have a coastal or diamond python or a marsh snake. There were other herps like a beardie, bluetongue etc you could have as well but only two without a licence.


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## cheyno (Aug 16, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> Your a good man Cheyno. Salt of the earth. FOS. You wouldnt own a reptile if people hadnt illegally taken them from the wild originally. Wakeup son.


 
Mate, the only species I have are not found in NSW, and are from NT, where it is legal to collect animals from the wild with a permit. Therefore, somewhere along the line, yes my snakes have come from the wild, but from a state where it was legally done.

You don't know jack about me, or what I do, so don't go jumping to conclusions.


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2007)

Colin which branch of the ATO are you at?

I have some friends in Hurstville and the Sydney Tower offices.

I raised the issue of tax a while ago, got about 1 response lol. There are most certainly several breeders who are DEFINATELY carrying on a business in the breeding and selling of reptiles. Which IMO should be paying tax on it. But ATO have more important things to worry about..

I mean come on unless your return is more than about 5k and you raise a few key red flags, you can writer down what you want..


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 16, 2007)

Brendan & Cheyno, your right, i dont know either of you so i opologise for the 5 minutes call. But i still think you are both being naive.


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

pugsly said:


> Colin which branch of the ATO are you at?
> I have some friends in Hurstville and the Sydney Tower offices.
> I raised the issue of tax a while ago, got about 1 response lol. There are most certainly several breeders who are DEFINATELY carrying on a business in the breeding and selling of reptiles. Which IMO should be paying tax on it. But ATO have more important things to worry about..
> I mean come on unless your return is more than about 5k and you raise a few key red flags, you can writer down what you want..


pugs I don't work for the ATO  I work for a private practice


> I mean come on unless your return is more than about 5k and you raise a few key red flags, you can writer down what you want


Ah ha  so you have PJ as your accountant / financial advisor then pugs :lol: :lol:


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## mertle (Aug 16, 2007)

He bred this albino and sold the parents and siblings before it hatched?

I don't get it, Wouldn't it all be in his record book??? Perhaps he could answer that? 

And all the babies would have come out at the same time from the eggs, so seeing one albino in there , wouldn't you keep some of the other babies for future breeding???

And if he doesn't want to make money from his pet then why not use it for breeding loans??? 

Meet the owner of the females and let them stay at his house with the male? that way there could be a good supply from multiple breeders for everyone to enjoy rather than it being an "elite" situation as it is now with albino snakes?


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## mysnakesau (Aug 16, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> This reminds me to much of Wednesday night's herp meeting, I got outbid on most of my items


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
HAHAHAHAHA Kane. Things do happen for a reason. You weren't meant to have any. I can't win anything either so join the Battlers Club.


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## MrSpike (Aug 16, 2007)

mysnakesau said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> HAHAHAHAHA Kane. Things do happen for a reason. You weren't meant to have any. I can't win anything either so join the Battlers Club.



Hey, I still got me the gecko!


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## Tatelina (Aug 16, 2007)

mertle said:


> And if he doesn't want to make money from his pet then why not use it for breeding loans???
> Meet the owner of the females and let them stay at his house with the male? that way there could be a good supply from *multiple breeders for everyone to enjoy rather than it being an "elite" situation *as it is now with albino snakes?


Pretending for a short moment that I believed what addy said... why the heck should he 'share' his pet for everyone to enjoy? Pfft. Just because it's rare and one of it's kind doesn't mean that he should automatically feel obliged to give other people oppurtunity to enjoy albinos aswell.. just because other people want it? That's crap.
And it's not being selfish in my opinion....he said it's his beloved pet. And they tend to do just fine without ever breeding.


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## mertle (Aug 16, 2007)

Yeah but he said himself he didn't want to make loads of money and wants to breed anyway, so do you think he will sell the hatchies for $50 ea because he doesn't want to make too much money???

I don't think so somehow......

there is a lot of confliction in the story.


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## pugsly (Aug 16, 2007)

LOL Colin, yes I do, but thats not why, I have my own insders at the ATO!

Cant catch everybody.. most people.. hardly anyone.. lol

Your practice in the city? Im on Castlereagh, catch up for a beer one friday.


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## Colin (Aug 17, 2007)

pugsly said:


> LOL Colin, yes I do, but thats not why, I have my own insders at the ATO!
> Cant catch everybody.. most people.. hardly anyone.. lol
> Your practice in the city? Im on Castlereagh, catch up for a beer one friday.


umm.. I think you actually came to my office in Surry Hills last year pugs  
didn't I have to call security to have you removed? or was that someone else :lol: :lol:


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## stagz (Aug 17, 2007)

lol his story is very sketchy.
but who cares, good luck to him.


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