# spoilt disobedient dog. how do I approach owners?



## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

hi all. Thsi week i was looking after a friend of mines dog whose is liek a maltese cross about one year. They have two small kids and the whole family literally treats the dog like a hairy baby. It doesnt know ANY obedience commands AT ALL. it barks all the time at everything, especially at other dogs it meets on the street when out on walks ( i never let him go near them.) I dont even think it knows the word no because they have never disiplined it in any way.

Anyway today it climbed through a hole in the fence and bit another dog. It didnt draw blood, but hell i was angry. it didnt even seem to pickup how angry i was at it. It is never aggresive towards humans, but the things it gets away with when at their house i cringe at. 

I know ofcourse its not his fault. His owners ofcourse at the ones to blame. This is their first pet apart from a rabbit and they definately dont treat it liek a dog. They let it go on all the furniture and they only take it for a walk when it suits them which is like once a month. This dog is also a typical example of a backyard breeder who knows nothing about inherited diseases. This dog has angular limb? i think they call it. when one of the bones in his front leg is loger than the other so his paw is twisted 90 degrees outwards. he also has an extreme underbite, where his bottom jaw juts out atleast 7mm away from where it is susposed to. 

This family is also, I know, not completly bagging in the money. They have been to the vet about his angular limb, but I doubt they will pay for surgery until it is absolutly crucial.

How do I approach the family on what this dog is like??? they just dont see how disobedient and aggresive he is to most other dogs. He is actualyl fine with my standard poodle and gets on well with her. But shows immense aggresion to stranger dogs. 
they are always saying oh my goodness isnt he gorgeous? and isnt he the best? It just frustrates me so much. How do I talk to them to get them to accept it? they wotn accept anything less than he is the cutest and hes cute so its ok he can get away with anything. 

Thanks for any help guys.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 21, 2010)

Its there dog so they can spoil it as much as they like, if its is getting out u could offer to fix there fence if they cant do it them selves.
Unless u share the same house as them i dont see how letting it on furniture etc is ur concern.
With the med problems, if the dog is in need of urgent help and they are ignoring then talk to RSPCA, otherwise there is nothing much u can do other than making them aware of the problems


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## amy5189 (Jan 21, 2010)

there will be no teaching people like that. they don't understand how dogs should be treated.
the dog will not have been socialised properly hence why it is aggressive to dogs, and the owners will have done everything wrong to encourage the problem. eg picking the dog up when another dog comes around
there is nothing you can do except wait until the dog it killed by a bigger more aggressive dog, as that will inevitably happen if the little dog is escaping and attacking other dogs


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

i am looking after it in my house, and it is all over my furniture. Neighbours are threating to call counsil on me because they say its my problem and they dont care if its not my dog. I just hate the way it will not listen to me at all or respond in anyway when i tell it off. 

amy: i know, some people seriously. they think because its a little dog they can just get away with treating it like a baby. it does get out at their place too, but mostly they lock it indoors.

i dno. I think Im probably overeeacting because my dog knows her exact place and never crosses the line. But i do feel bad for the family, because i know in the future he is goign to be a major problem.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 21, 2010)

Well why its at your place try to train it a bit, the old saying that u cant teach an old dog new tricks is BS


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## grannieannie (Jan 21, 2010)

Firstly...never look after the dog again. Tell the people you don't like it's behavior and that you feel they really should take the dog to obedience classes...it's never to late for that. Apart from that and the RSPCA suggestion already made, there's nothing you can do. Not your dog = not your problem.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

Geckoman123 said:


> Well why its at your place try to train it a bit, the old saying that u cant teach an old dog new tricks is BS


 
mate trust me i have been trying. he just does not get my tone when i tell him off. he just looks and me and walks off. 

atleast like you said grannieannie, yeah, i only have him for a few more days.


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## wiz-fiz (Jan 21, 2010)

if you are friends with the person, talk to them and they should respect your opinion, and take it into account. is it an inside dog? if it is, chain it up for a few days outside at night, but take it for walks and stuff, and pull on the chain a bit when he/she barks.

Will


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

mate you just suggested for me to get it put down. why did you change ur response?


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## Eylandt (Jan 21, 2010)

Chuckface01 said:


> Anyway today it climbed through a hole in the fence and bit another dog. It didnt draw blood, but hell i was angry. it didnt even seem to pickup how angry i was at it. It is never aggresive towards humans, but the things it gets away with when at their house i cringe at.
> 
> I know ofcourse its not his fault. His owners ofcourse at the ones to blame.



Its the owners fault that the Dog that YOU have taken responsibility for got out from a hole in YOUR fence and attack another dog while in YOUR care?

Those who live in Glass houses should not throw stones.

You, as a dog owner, need to address the issue of lacking a secure fenced area before posting rubbish about other pet owners.

As for the aggression towards others dogs someone as experienced as yourself should be aware of the fact that such an issue is more often then not relative to fear and not disobedience.

Medical problems should most definitely be addressed but who's to say they havent been addressed previously? Have you asked the owner about it and if they refuse to do it then why hasnt the RSPCA been notified? 

I apologize if this comes across as harsh but anything that dog does while in your care is your responsibility, not the owners. It also sounds to me like the dog has symptoms of fear hence the whole domination/disobedience war is happening. Might be worth giving your local Vet clinic a call to have a chat with them about whats been happening.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

I had no idea that there were places in my fence he could get out. i have a larger dog and it is complelty escape proof for her. He managed to dig a hole near a loose fence slat and slipped under. i have since fixed the hole, but a dog of his size can fit through hardly any hole at all. 

they said that their vet said its not urgent unless he starts limping. I dont take their word for truth as I have had a friend previously whose dogs angular limp was much much less exaggerated than this dogs, and it had to have surgery within 2 weeks of its discovery. I feel liek if they dont treat it now it will get worse and worse. Its my own opinion, and i know it doesnt exactly count, but i was just a bit sus abotu the situation and i dont want ANY dog to suffer. 

I am not used to having a dog that i seem to have to watch every every second of when walking incase he bites another dog. and I had no idea the extent of his aggresion. therefore i was not prepared, and i feel it is the owners fault that they either complelty ignored the problem and chose not to tell me, or dont think its worth worryign about in such a small dog. 

and i wasnt saying its his owners fault in context to him escaping. i was referign to what i said afterwards about his disbedience.


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## AMY22 (Jan 21, 2010)

Well lucky for you my dear I happen to have studied animal behaviour last year (I knew there was a reason for it). If you need some advice on training and the dogs behaviour just let me know, it will make me feel important. As for the owners, you have to know how to approach them properly because they obviously won’t think they’ve done anything wrong, otherwise the dog wouldn’t act the way it does.
 One piece of advice I have is buy a book on dog training and put it in their letterbox, they won’t even know it was you. Someone did that to my aunty years ago. It’s never too late to teach a dog manners, but certain behaviours will be harder to get rid of when they are older as dogs go through a stage when they are puppies where they pick up on certain things, especially certain fears, i.e. lightening, the vet, other dogs, etc. it is called the fear stage and happens around 8 months old. 
Spoiling their dog can also increase these behaviours by rewarding it. 
 If it’s causing a hassle to you then something should be said, if you can get the courage to do it that is. You could perhaps tell them that you can’t look after their dog anymore because you aren’t able to control it. You could tell them that the dog got out and bit another dog and suggest that it gets a bit of training to stop it from happening again (such as sit and stay), but use the fact that the dog could end up being attacked or injured and you don’t want that to happen so you are sort of downplaying the harshness of it. Make it sound as though it’s out of your own concern ‘oh I was worried he was going to get bitten or run over, I couldn’t make him stay. Maybe we could teach him to sit when he’s told to so he doesn’t get in trouble’. 
Hope some of that helps you, let me know if there’s anything more I can do for you.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

Thanks amy. actually i could use your help. I dont think hes ever been taught the word no, and doesnt seem to recognise when I am tryign to show him when im angry with him. how can i get him to pick up on my emotions a bit more? I have never hit a dog in my life and never plan to, but to do that, I need them to know when i mean business


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## Jen (Jan 21, 2010)

Bark Busters. They are brilliant and its not a one off training thing, they will come to you for the life of the dog. The most basic thing they taught us was to make a 'baa' (not like the sheep baa) at the dog when it is doing something wrong. A dog is a pack animal, if a -eg-wolf - in a pack does something wrong, the leader -YOU - punishes it by snapping and growling and putting it i its place, so be the leader of the pack and rather than hitting it, which does not work, growl at the dog. Also, get a short length of chain, or some old keys on a ring, and when it barks, rattle the chain/keys loudly at it.

And if they are your friends you should be able to approach them honestly and tell them they are spoiling the dog (my bf is the same with our dog, treats her like a baby, drives me mental). If they take offence, just tell them you won't look after it again until they get some help with its behaviour.


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## AMY22 (Jan 21, 2010)

Chuckface01 said:


> Thanks amy. actually i could use your help. I dont think hes ever been taught the word no, and doesnt seem to recognise when I am tryign to show him when im angry with him. how can i get him to pick up on my emotions a bit more? I have never hit a dog in my life and never plan to, but to do that, I need them to know when i mean business


 
Definitely do not hit him, a lot of people think it’s the right answer but with proper training it will never happen. If the dog isn’t listening to you, it’s unlikely that it will at any point while it’s in your care, any training it receives will take weeks or longer. 
 When the dog is being aggressive, there are many different factors as to why it is behaving that way. Aggression can come in many forms including dominance aggression, fear aggression, territorial aggression, maternal aggression and possessive aggression. Why is this dog acting in that way? Because it is being spoilt, it may be dominance aggression, that dog thinks it’s running the joint. In the wild dogs learn at a very young age what level they are at in the pack, wither it’s the top dog or right at the bottom. When it comes to pets, the dog should ALWAYS be at the very bottom of the pack. Nobody should allow that dog to get away with things. If that dog gets a taste of being above anybody it’s going to think ‘why should I listen to you?’ This family has done the opposite of what should have been done and so it’s acting the way it would as an alpha dog. Because that’s happened for so long, it’s now going to be harder to teach it otherwise. It’s not impossible but it will take persistence.

 It needs to learn that you are the leader. And you need to be straight out with your demands. When you are telling it off be straight out and stern, ‘NO’, and praise it when it’s good. As soon as it stops praise it, it needs to learn the difference between good and bad behaviours. But remember that when you are rewarding or condemning in any way it needs to be immediate or the dog can become confused. 

Always reward good behaviours, if you are sitting in the lounge room and it is sitting quietly on the floor doing nothing wrong, throwing a treat. Then dog will think ‘why did I get that, I wasn’t doing anything! Oh of course!’ (because we all know dogs think like people). Eventually it will learn to associate calm behaviour with praise.
It will be more difficult to teach the dog your emotions when it is older, as it is used to being allowed to act a certain way. Plus it has absolutely no training. Certain unwanted behaviours should be ignored. If the dog jumps up at you, ignore it, don’t look at it, don’t talk to it, pretend it isn’t even there. Then as soon as it stops, praise it. If it jumps up again, ignore it again. If there is lightening and the dog is scared and comes running to you, ignore it. Anything you do may be considered praise and it will learn to keep doing it.

 If it’s at another dog that is extremely difficult as you can’t tell it to sit. Usually it would be the simple case of distraction i.e. telling it to sit. Until the dog has better training it would be best just to avoid the chance of that situation altogether. When you are training a dog you need to start where there are no distractions at all, in a quite place with no other animals or people as everything will be a distraction and any rewards you give may be given for the wrong reason (example- the dogs sits and then you go to give it a reward, but in that moment in between the dog has spotted something else, therefore you’ve just rewarded the dog for being distracted). 
Then after it starts to learn basic commands, move to somewhere where there ARE distractions so it learns to listen to you through that. This dog is in no way at that point and anything you do will be impossible. 

When this dog barks, is it out of aggression or boredom? Does it have toys at home? Does it have a variety of toys? One of the main reasons for barking is out of boredom, if they have nothing to do or the same toys every day they are going to get tired of it and go elsewhere for entertainment. There are so many things out there (and I mean some freaking unbelievable stuff out there- bacon flavoured bubble machines anyone?), plus a million different home made toys you can create.

The very first trick any dog should learn is sit, as it is the first step in a lot of other commands eg. drop and stay. Because this dog doesn’t know that, it’s going to be very hard to teach it anything else.

In regards to teaching this dog to listen, it will be hard, all you can really do at this point is be stern with bad behaviours and praise it with good. It will take a great deal of time for this animal to learn what you want.

And as for the owners thinking their dog is so adorable, there is nothing cuter than a well trained dog that does exactly what it’s told to do. People like animals that show intelligence.

Hopefully some of that info helps you a bit, or at least gives some understanding. If not let me know if there’s anything else.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Jan 21, 2010)

Approach your friend and explain to them how serious the dog's condition is, and how the people who owned the dog it bit could have sued them. Or you could make an anonymous report to the RSPCA.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

Thankyou so much Amy! I will be passing on alot of this information to its owners, not to make them feel stupid, but as a suggestive way. and I will be trying this stuff from now on until it goes home. again thanks so much for all your info. You obviously love what you study! and im hoping to get into something similar too.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 21, 2010)

rainbow-serpent: I will definately be adressing them on its behaviour. I do see it quite often when i go to their place, so I can asses how his leg is going too.


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## AMY22 (Jan 21, 2010)

Wow sorry for the super long post, I didn’t realise I’d written that much! Lucky I stopped writing when I did...


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## beatlloydy (Jan 21, 2010)

In my experience with dogs this breed is renown for being spoilt, particularly if not trained and socialised early on. 

My mate had one...It was a house dog...it used to pee everywhere and would howl if he left the house...he lives with his mum and someone always had to be home...stopped him from going away on w/ends and everything.

It had to be put down about a year ago..old age and getting paralysed...and what did they do..went out and got another small yappy dog that does exactly the same thing...they spoil it rotten and it runs the house.

There's a lot of truth to the saying "there is no such thing as bad kids/dog..just bad owners"...and owners who spoil kids/animals are just as bad as neglectful owners in some respects.


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## AMY22 (Jan 21, 2010)

Chuckface01 said:


> Thankyou so much Amy! I will be passing on alot of this information to its owners, not to make them feel stupid, but as a suggestive way. and I will be trying this stuff from now on until it goes home. again thanks so much for all your info. You obviously love what you study! and im hoping to get into something similar too.


 
Hey no dramas! Critters are awesome, I live to give. I actually found animal behaviour to incredibly fascinating when I studied it. It’s something I’ve always loved and I’ve been working with and studying critters since I was 9, I couldn’t think of anything better. I just finished work experience at a pet shop and absolutely LOVED it. 
I hope you get into something yourself, it can be very rewarding. You’ve just got to keep trying because it’s very competitive. As for the dog, good luck!


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## cosmicwolf4 (Jan 21, 2010)

I have a bull mastiff x rotty and when I was training him not to do things, I had a spray bottle filled with water and a very small amount of lemon juice. When I wanted him to stop being naughty I yelled BAAAAH in a very loud voice and sprayed him from the bottle, he learned very quickly what he wasn't allowed to do.


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## AMY22 (Jan 22, 2010)

beatlloydy said:


> In my experience with dogs this breed is renown for being spoilt, particularly if not trained and socialised early on.
> 
> My mate had one...It was a house dog...it used to pee everywhere and would howl if he left the house...he lives with his mum and someone always had to be home...stopped him from going away on w/ends and everything.
> 
> ...


 
Little yappy dogs do tend to get spoilt yeah, they are lap dogs and people buy the simply because they are cute. But small dogs need just as much training as big dogs. They also tend to get anxiety easily as well because when people see them the first thing they do is jump straight onto it to pat it and praise it, which is obviously going to be scary for something so small. 
People tend to read certain behaviours incorrectly, such as rolling over, and it can lead to other behavioural problems. I think the royalty treatment tends to be reserved for the smaller dogs as they are less threatening, a big dog acting the same way, chasing another dog down the street and biting it, barking at everything, general misbehaving, none of that would be tolerated for a second.


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## Beardieboy (Jan 22, 2010)

If the dog is fully grown and its angular deformity does not cause pain or limping then the vet may be serious when he says it doesn't need to be operated on. It's major surgery that should not be undertaken if it's not needed. Just so you know. Angular limb deformities are relatively common in these types of dogs.


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## FAY (Jan 22, 2010)

Chuckface, you need to watch Ceaser Millan..the dog whisperer.
I doubt the owners will do anything as sounds to me that they can't see anything wrong with it's behaviour.


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## JupiterCreek (Jan 22, 2010)

Wise words from Amy. All I'd add is that while the pooch is in your care I'd be using a crate or carrier. Let the dog have that small confined area so it feels more secure... and so you have control of where it is when you're not interacting with it. Get some nice smelly metwurst or Kabana and spend an hour getting it to sit and drop.

My ex in-laws had an unruly little chihuahua that's hopeless with them. We looked after it for a few weeks some years ago, and when we'd visit them it still responded to us and obeyed the basic sit and drop commands. I know we humans have an overwhelming desire to be independent, but dogs have an overwhelming desire to be a part of a pack, to know their place in the pack, and to follow the alpha.


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## Lovemydragons (Jan 22, 2010)

I show my dog and sit with a few ****zu people at shows. They are some of the most pampered and babied dogs when it comes to brushing and preparation for shows, but these ones still are obedient enough to sit on trolleys when they're told to, stand up when they're told to and don't move when they're told to. 

All dogs can be obedient (even the small fluffy ones), it depends on the owners how much work actually gets done to make this possible. So even small fluffy dogs can be perfect angels!

I also lived with my aunt for a while when we were building our house, she has a 3 year old retriever x labrador which has had little training. It used to jump on everyone, snatch food, and basically not listen to anyone unless her dinner was in your hands. Our dogs aren't perfect but they do what they're told, and I found her dog quite annoying while we were living there, it some times made me angry. We were there for about 9 months all up, so overe that time I took it on myself to train her dog. I had her sitting and staying, she stopped jumping on everyone. Although my aunt still needed to walk her more often (which helps a lot) she was more controllable around the house. But walking a dog doesn't always seem a big thing, but the mental stimulation they get plays a huge role in their behaviour when at home.

So I understand your situation, but all you can do is become boss of this dog while it's in your care so it doesn't rule your life. If the other family doesn't want to fix it, they will have to live with the problems. Dogs live by a ranking system, if they feel they are higher than you they wont listen, but as long as you sit higher in the chain you will be ok till it goes home. The loud chain and "bah" ideas above are a good idea. They do work, but consistancy is going to be your best friend.


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## redbellybite (Jan 22, 2010)

I own two slippers (maltese and maltese X ****zu) 
the full maltese he is now 3 years old ,and has settled down and become a really good friendly dog ..99% of the time he does what is expected of him ,he is socially friendly towards everything ..except CARS he has no idea about them and so cant be trusted to be anywhere near a moving one as I doubt he would get out of the way ...
My other one is 18mths old SHE(the X) is still in terrible puppy stage ...barks when she shouldnt and so on ...but with time and effort hope she gets up there with her male companion....she is more stand offish with humans and other dogs and it has nothing to do with not being socialised as we treat both dogs the same ,I think its just in her makeup ..and yes I do spoil them I know I do ...but regardless of what you say people with bigger breeds spoil their dogs too ..not just the small owned ones .....


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## Poggle (Jan 22, 2010)

first of all WOW amy22 great advice  i was going to try and help after reading the first post as i breed and train working dogs but i think smart amy has summed it up pretty well. And what fay said you can actually get dvd's of ceasar millan now who can give guide to guide training of dogs for most situations... good for a house dog any way.


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 22, 2010)

Thankyou everyoe for your help! essentially, in 2 days its going to be all up to the owners to do something about. but i can try all you guys suggested while its here. again thanks everyone! good stuff to know in the future too!


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## Chuckface01 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just got slammed with a $150 fine for the dog today for biting the other dog. his owners will definately have a shock comign to them.


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