# Help with identifying skin



## reptinate (May 13, 2016)

Hey, a family member found this skin. They live in Brisbane. Can anyone tell me what it could be? Thanks.

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Any ideas?


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## reptinate (May 17, 2016)

No ideas? How do I delete this thread?


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## Firepac (May 17, 2016)

Pretty sure it's a Common Tree Snake based on the shape of the scale along its back, the low dorsal scale count and concave nature of the ventral scale.


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## pythoninfinite (May 17, 2016)

Not a CTS. Definitely an elapid. The ventrals are concave because the skin is inside out. If the anterior subcaudals (the scales under the tail) are single after the vent, as they seem to be, and a few or more divided towards the end of the tail it'll be a Red-belly, but I can't see the end of the tail. The other possibility for that region could have been Eastern Brown, but they have fully divided subcaudals. My verdict - Red-bellied Black Snake, and it's probably the commonest large elapid on this part of the coast.

Maybe someone with a better knowledge of head scalation can chip in and confirm or challenge my suggestion - as you all know I'm ready to be corrected if I'm wrong...

Jamie


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## Firepac (May 17, 2016)

To be an RBB it should have 17 dorsal scales at mid body. In the second photo I count 9 which means there would need to be 4 additional scales each side that are not visible. Whilst not impossible I thought it unlikely. CTS have 13-15 dorsal scales meaning 2 or 3 scales not visible which seemed more likely. 

I have to admit though the length to width ratio doesn't seem right for a tree snake on balance its is likely I am wrong and more than happy to admit it. I look forward to others input to help my learning.


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (May 17, 2016)

I'm leaning towards elapid on this one. I can't zoom too much on my phone but it seems to lack a loreal scale. If it does that rules out CTS


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## BrownHash (May 17, 2016)

Its hard to tell if it has loreal scales, but I only see singular temperal scales, so if it is an elapid I think it is more likely a pseudonaja (brown). 

Either way its a nice looking slough, it wouldn't be too hard to id it in the hand.


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## BredliFreak (May 17, 2016)

Yeah definitely screams elapid to me, not robust enough to be an RBB and gave off an EB vibe but I have never done scale counts before so I don't feel confident in my ID


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## reptinate (May 18, 2016)

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated


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## Bluetongue1 (May 18, 2016)

@reptinate. Firepac got it. The lateral ridging on the ventrals is sufficient alone to positively identify it as a Common Tree Snake. This is confirmed by the low mid-body scale count. 

Unfortunately, I think the photos are somewhat mislaeding. The hole in the ventrals is evidentially damage to the slough and does not represent the location of the vent. There is undoubtedly a reasonable amount more to the tail end of the slough than is pictured. The camera angle creates a false perspective, making the tail end appear to taper much more quickly than in reality. That end of slough may also have been stretched to appear thinner than it originally was.

Am happy to explain why it cannot be any of the elapids mentioned (or others) if you want to know.


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