# The Jag Gene



## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 12, 2013)

I have seen some members trying to explanation the jag gene on here but have been incorrect. Im going to attempt to explain the jag gene to a novice keeper who understands the genetics behind breeding a more common morph like albinos.

Jaguar is a co-dom mutation. Co-Dominance is when the gene can be visibly seen (in its heterozygous form) when only sitting on one allele. All living organisms have two alleles for each trait. Heterozygous is when one allele has a specific gene(along with others) on it and the other allele has another gene along with others.
I remember co dominance by reminding myself that it is two dominant traits working together, that are both visibly expressed. Think of COworkers and how they both work together.

SO.. this means that the jag gene only needs to be present on one allele for it to been show in the phenotype.. in other words if the jag gene is sitting on one allele its a jag.
If the Jag gene sits on BOTH alleles this means the recessive mutation will be shown. The recessive mutation for the jaguar gene is lethal (breeding jag X jag).... NO this does not mean if you breed a Jag to a Jag all the babies will die. Only 25% of the babies will be caring the jag gene on BOTH alleles... This is the recessive form of the jag gene these will be the dead leusistics

As you can see from the above co-dominance where the mutated and normal allele both contribute equally to the function of a cell/organism is difficult to explain in general and it is better to relate it to the function of the mutated protein in a real world situation 
 Quoted -David Wynick, University of Bristol

Lets look at it from another angle. Imagine breeding albino darwin carpet pythons. Hets for this example are our jags, normal's are our sibs/normals and albinos are out dead leucys. 
Breeding a Het to a normal (jag to normal) would produce 50% normals and 50% hets(jags). However if you where to breed a HET to a HET you would produce 25%albino 50%hets and 25%normals imagining this was a jag to jag pairing it would produce 25%dead leusistics 50% jaguars and 25% sibs. 

The only difference is that Hets do not have a visible phenotype and jaguars do. To explain this futher breeding a het to het produces 1/4 albino 3/4 66% het for albinos. this means when breeding jags you can visibly see what 66% are jags and what 33% and normals. (If you where to personaly breed Jag x Jag knowing you will get leusistics) 

i don't know how well i quickly explained this to people that have minimum knowledge of genetics but i hope i can make someone understand this mutation. Feel free to Pm me, reply to this thread or Quote me for any questions.

Also could i suggest to mods making a genetics section to post all genetic related posts. 

Cheers Liam


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## Xeaal (Aug 12, 2013)

Yes, but the bottom line is that if you are breeding jags you are also knowingly accepting that in order to have "pretty" snakes, a percentage will be born dead or be born with a neurological deformity.


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## andynic07 (Aug 12, 2013)

Very good explanation but maybe you could have also added a dictionary explanation of heterozygous so people don't get confused with this just being for albinos.

Homozygous refers to having identical alleles for a single trait and heterozygous refers to having two different alleles for a single trait.


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 12, 2013)

it if defiantly hard to learn genetics, my suggestions to anyway starting would be to head to dictionary.com. look up geneotype, phenotype, dominant, co dominant, recessive, heterozygous, homozygous etc


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## saximus (Aug 12, 2013)

You’re close but I think you’re getting some of your wording and definitions confused. All hets are hets. So when you say “The only difference is that Hets do not have a visible phenotype and jaguars do.”, I realise you’re talking about albinos in that instance but it comes across as a bit confusing. I believe the part with the 66% hets would also be confusing to anyone reading it. Maybe consider rewording or removing it. 
Also, the homozygous (also called Super) form isn’t recessive. It is simply the homozygous form. Recessive refers to the mode of inheritance.

I also believe I read somewhere fairly recently that Jags are incomplete dominant rather than co-dominant. The difference is pretty tricky to understand (even I couldn’t really explain it properly if put on the spot) but should be noted.

Since I believe your motivation was a certain now locked thread, maybe you could describe the difference between a line bred morph like RP or certain Hypos and true Mendelian inheritance like Jags and Albinos.

These are just my suggestions. I’m at work so can’t spend too much time but if someone doesn’t get in before me, I would be happy to explain the differences in more detail later.


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 12, 2013)

saximus said:


> You’re close but I think you’re getting some of your wording and definitions confused. All hets are hets. So when you say “The only difference is that Hets do not have a visible phenotype and jaguars do.”, I realise you’re talking about albinos in that instance but it comes across as a bit confusing. I believe the part with the 66% hets would also be confusing to anyone reading it. Maybe consider rewording or removing it.
> Also, the homozygous (also called Super) form isn’t recessive. It is simply the homozygous form. Recessive refers to the mode of inheritance.
> 
> I also believe I read somewhere fairly recently that Jags are incomplete dominant rather than co-dominant. The difference is pretty tricky to understand (even I couldn’t really explain it properly if put on the spot) but should be noted.
> ...



thanks for the words of advice! Yes jags are "incomplete dominant" i also have much of trouble telling the two apart, i think it has to do with blending of colours or sharing of colours. I used co-dom because it is mostly used when talking about snakes (also to avoid confusion) 
My grammar is terrible and wording needs work on! Im not to sure about RPs (its polygenic isn't it? like breeding tri stripes to banded? maybe you could help me out with this?) (i also know there is abit of controversy with hypos. I remember seeing post about the varying degrees of hypo. Perhaps you could make a thread where experienced breeders can post pictures of there hypo x hypo pairings and hypo x normal pairing etc


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## Rogue5861 (Aug 12, 2013)

Cold-B-Hearts said:


> thanks for the words of advice! Yes jags are "incomplete dominant" i also have much of trouble telling the two apart, i think it has to do with blending of colours or sharing of colours. I used co-dom because it is mostly used when talking about snakes (also to avoid confusion)
> My grammar is terrible and wording needs work on! Im not to sure about RPs (its polygenic isn't it? like breeding tri stripes to banded? maybe you could help me out with this?) (i also know there is abit of controversy with hypos. I remember seeing post about the varying degrees of hypo. Perhaps you could make a thread where experienced breeders can post pictures of there hypo x hypo pairings and hypo x normal pairing etc



Hypos are just reduced black, so really it is something that is open to differing opinion. A hypo could have 5% less black then a normal an still be hypo, really though i would expect most to have a lot less black then a normal.


Rick


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## Dean90 (Aug 12, 2013)

I found the articles on genetics found here to be quite helpful!
Genetics » CarpetPythons.com.au


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## champagne (Aug 12, 2013)

Xeaal said:


> Yes, but the bottom line is that if you are breeding jags you are also knowingly accepting that in order to have "pretty" snakes, a percentage will be born dead or be born with a neurological deformity.


 It's getting old build a bridge.
snakes aren't ''born'' they hatch... you don't always get dead snakes when you breed jags, some babies wont develop if you do a jag x jag breeding very few if any of these Lucy's ever make it to hatching stage. yes all jags have neruo problems, but around 95% of them have such little affect that you cant notice or it is very small that it doesn't effect them. Albino blue tongue skinks have eye problems but I don't see people bashing on them....


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## saximus (Aug 12, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> Albino blue tongue skinks have eye problems but I don't see people bashing on them....



Aren't Beardies even worse with all of them dying from complications in early life?


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## scorps (Aug 12, 2013)

Only if you breed Jag x Jag, I swear its impossible to have a thread on this forum without someone knocking morph breeders instantly...



Xeaal said:


> Yes, but the bottom line is that if you are breeding jags you are also knowingly accepting that in order to have "pretty" snakes, a percentage will be born dead or be born with a neurological deformity.


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## Rogue5861 (Aug 12, 2013)

saximus said:


> Aren't Beardies even worse with all of them dying from complications in early life?



Yep. I think they get to around 4 months and then die.


Rick


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## champagne (Aug 12, 2013)

saximus said:


> Aren't Beardies even worse with all of them dying from complications in early life?


yes they are born blind there are some dwarfs that have survived to adult by hand feeding, so far all the centrals have died but there are people doing out crossing and some are reaching ages past 9 months. The thing is a lot of people scream neruo when it comes to jags, that is why people don't openly talk about how many are actually culled because of neruo problems, the numbers then turn to rumours and get blow out.


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## scorps (Aug 12, 2013)

The neuro issue isnt that bad of a problem, it occasionally pops up but not ever jag has it.

I own around 8 jags and non show neuro.


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## Rogue5861 (Aug 12, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> yes they are born blind there are some dwarfs that have survived to adult by hand feeding, so far all the centrals have died but there are people doing out crossing and some are reaching ages past 9 months. The thing is a lot of people scream neruo when it comes to jags, that is why people don't openly talk about how many are actually culled because of neruo problems, the numbers then turn to rumours and get blow out.



I read something the other day that said its only around 5% or less of jags that actually show any signs of neuro, that is a pretty low number and doesn't warrant the reaction that a lot of people seem to have towards jag breeders or keepers.


Rick


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## Pitttownboy (Aug 12, 2013)

Unfortunately some hatchies from most clutches will die for one reason or another and if you knowingly breed knowing a few wil not hatch or die shortly after then so be it. Jag to jag is as legal and right as breeding albino to albino, in the wild very few of each will survive.


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## champagne (Aug 12, 2013)

depends what they are classing as neruo. if they are talking about cork screwing then I would agree around 5% or less do this, in my experience but small head wobbles or other slight neruo problems some only when excited like feeding time would effect less then 20% so that leaves around 80% that show no sign of neruo or so little that people don't notice. The problem cant be bred out but is very over exaggerated in its effects


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## champagne (Aug 12, 2013)

Pitttownboy said:


> Unfortunately some hatchies from most clutches will die for one reason or another and if you knowingly breed knowing a few wil not hatch or die shortly after then so be it. Jag to jag is as legal and right as breeding albino to albino, in the wild very few of each will survive.


once again I would like to see hatch rates in jags vs line bred polygenic morphs


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## The_Geeza (Aug 12, 2013)

scorps said:


> Only if you breed Jag x Jag, I swear its impossible to have a thread on this forum without someone knocking morph breeders instantly...


People need to take a look at a UK forum to understand how far our Aussie Carpets have gone regarding Morphs.....and aussies r striving to replicate....there here to stay so people need to get over it.....few years ago I would have said I lent to the pure side but after lots of reading and research I took the plunge...........people will buy what looks good its just the way of the world (fashion if that's what ya wana call it)...I would class my Jag in the same handling class as my albino Darwin...very calm and to the extreme that he's a pain to get back in enclosure due to loves his explorations....all to there own but bagging out on these forums is beginning to wear people down to a point that it makes me wonder y I still look every day ...... I'm here to help others and also add to my own experience off some of the longer reputable keepers..........Pete


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## The_Geeza (Aug 12, 2013)

btsmorphs said:


> depends what they are classing as neruo. if they are talking about cork screwing then I would agree around 5% or less do this, in my experience but small head wobbles or other slight neruo problems some only when excited like feeding time would effect less then 20% so that leaves around 80% that show no sign of neruo or so little that people don't notice. The problem cant be bred out but is very over exaggerated in its effects


Heres a typical example.....when I got mine as a hatchie it was nervous and wouldn't u be....used to handle slightly different than other snakes ive kept with the odd swinging of the head as if confused....with settling period and a few feeds under its belt I started to introduce myself.....as stated in last post my Jag is now prob my best handling snake and is very comfortable being taken out for a stretch


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## scorps (Aug 12, 2013)

I cant really comment on calmness, I dont handle my snakes unless necessary but they act no different to any of my other pythons, some are bitey and flighty, some are placid puppies.


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