# Australia's most deadly snakes



## Riley (Feb 8, 2008)

anyone know Australia's 10 most dangerous/deadly snakes?
just wonderin
i know that Australia has 7 of the most dangerous in the world..but yeah.
also i saw a grey & black snake with horns at the ARP, anyone know know what type this is?

thanks


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## Bendarwin (Feb 8, 2008)

the Penrith trouser snake is up there............


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## Jozz (Feb 8, 2008)

http://www.avru.org/general/general_mostvenom.html

It has Black Tiger Snake twice though? I think they should be just different locality tiger snakes.

Anyone know if this list is right?


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## Fuscus (Feb 8, 2008)

Jozz said:


> http://www.avru.org/general/general_mostvenom.html
> 
> It has Black Tiger Snake twice though? I think they should be just different locality tiger snakes.
> 
> Anyone know if this list is right?



That is just the animals LD50 rating in mice . ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50 )
In reality the most dangerous are the ones that often come in contact with people, mainly brown snakes. Inland taipans are rarely encountered by humans and have very few recorded bites


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 8, 2008)

G'day Riley,

It's one of those age old questions that really doesn't have an answer. There are so many variables that it's impossible to pinpoint a single species or group of species as the most venomous or dangerous.

The most venomous land snake in the world is the Inland Taipan, but there is no documentation of anybody ever dying from one. There's probably a number of different reasons for that...mistaken identity of the snake before it was rediscovered, only being extensively worked with after the creation of antivenom, and also occuring in areas with a very small human population. 

The snake that claims the most lives in Australia is the Eastern Brown Snake - it's the second "most venomous snake in the world". The reasons for the above stastic are many...it occurs along the densely populated east coast of Australia, where it thrives in disturbed habitat. It's a nervous, pugnacious species that won't hesitate to bite if threatened. 

The LD50 tests that determine what species is the most venomous is highly flawed. It makes perfect sense that rodent specialists rate very highly on it, as the test is conducted upon rodents. If you were to conduct the tests on reptiles or amphibians, the results would differ dramatically. 

At the end of the day, the most dangerous venomous snake is the one that has just bitten you.


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## Jozz (Feb 8, 2008)

You're right. That list is the most VENOMOUS. Eastern Brown and Tigers would be the most dangerous in Aus wouldn't they. Where's David Williams when you need him 

Most Dangerous, and most venomous are very different.


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## michelle (Feb 8, 2008)

most dangerous is the coastal taipan but most venomous is the inland, yes different locality tigers


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## Jozz (Feb 8, 2008)

I would have thought there would be more deaths in Australia from the Eastern Brown than the Coastal Taipan?


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 8, 2008)

There are far more deaths from Eastern Browns than Coastal Taipans. From a keepers point of view, Coastal Taipans are definitely the most dangerous Australian snake to keep in captivity though. Also, there is almost a 100% death rate from Coastal Taipans before the invention of antivenom.


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## Bendarwin (Feb 9, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> There are far more deaths from Eastern Browns than Coastal Taipans. From a keepers point of view, Coastal Taipans are definitely the most dangerous Australian snake to keep in captivity though. Also, there is almost a 100% death rate from Coastal Taipans before the invention of antivenom.



Indeed,
The most confirmed kills come from the Cobra......... Why? because they (the natives) mess with them and get tagged then have no medical to sort them out. Aussies are smarter, we have the bad boys but leave them alone. The best scale in my opinion is the mg per head ratio. (dead rodents per mg of venom) In this competition the inland Taipan is the king,and in my eyes THE DEADLIEST SNAKE IN THE WORLD.

My 2c inc. GST


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## blackghost (Feb 9, 2008)

Hey Riley, do a search on YouTube under 'Steve Irwin' or 'Deadly Snakes'. Steve has a 3 part series on the 
top 10 most venomous snakes in Australia. Really good viewing too.

blackghost


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## Riley (Feb 9, 2008)

wow thanks everyone!!


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## Brettix (Feb 9, 2008)

What about sea snakes ???


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## mrmikk (Feb 9, 2008)

blackghost said:


> Hey Riley, do a search on YouTube under 'Steve Irwin' or 'Deadly Snakes'. Steve has a 3 part series on the
> top 10 most venomous snakes in Australia. Really good viewing too.
> 
> blackghost


 
I tried looking for these the other day and they have all been taken down, probably a copyright infirngement I imagine. But the doco Steve did is excellent on this subject.


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## Frozenmouse (Feb 9, 2008)

1,the small scaled snake
2,brown snake
3,taipan
4,tigersnake
5,reevesby island tiger snake
6,beaked sea snake
7,wa tigersnake
8,chappell island tiger snake
9,death adder
10,gwardar
11,australian copperhead
these are also the 11 most deadly in the world first non australian one at #12 is the indian cobra.


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## Dipcdame (Feb 9, 2008)

I think you'll find the Boomslang is up amongst the top ten, and the Malayan Krait, the Saw Scaled Viper from Asia and Africa make a respectable top ten addage. There's 3 in the top ten not from australia.


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## salebrosus (Feb 9, 2008)

Riley said:


> anyone know Australia's 10 most dangerous/deadly snakes?
> just wonderin
> i know that Australia has 7 of the most dangerous in the world..but yeah.
> also i saw a grey & black snake with horns at the ARP, anyone know know what type this is?
> ...



This one would have been the Rhincoerous Viper.



Dabool said:


> 1,the small scaled snake
> 2,brown snake
> 3,taipan
> 4,tigersnake
> ...



I still can't believe Rough Scaled Snakes aren't even mentioned. 

Simone.


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## jflanagan (Feb 9, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> The LD50 tests that determine what species is the most venomous is highly flawed. It makes perfect sense that rodent specialists rate very highly on it, as the test is conducted upon rodents. If you were to conduct the tests on reptiles or amphibians, the results would differ dramatically.



Rubbish... 

The LD50 isn't highly flawed, it makes no sense to determine the most venemous snake by testing on frogs and other snakes. Common biology dicates that the LD50 would be exactly the same for all mammals, not just rodents. 

'Rodent specific neurotoxins' are just as good at killing humans as they are at killing rodents I hate to tell you.


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## bigguy (Feb 9, 2008)

As Jonno most maturally point out, this is an age old question with many answers. To simplyfy matters there are actually 3 catorgeries which everyone around the world tend to merge together and get confused.

1) The worlds deadliests snakes, ie the snakes with the strongest venom drop for drop.

a) See list previously list on this thread


2) Which snakes causes the most human deaths

a) The Saw Scaled Viper causes the most deaths as it is found commonly over a huge heavery populated area of Africa and Western Asia. You could flip a coin between 2 and 3 with the Asian Cobra or Russels Pit Viper


3) the worlds most dangerous snake, ie which snake has the highest chance of causing human death without antivenom.

a) The Coastal Taipan is normally regarded as the Worlds most dangerous snake. Before antivenom, it was 100% death rate from a full bite. Before 1955 only one youth ever recovered from a Tai bite. He was bitten by only 1 fang, through a pair of shoes and within seconds his father chopped a massive lump of flesh from his foot with a chissle. The Black Mamba comes in second with about a 97% death rate, followed closely by the Eastern Tiger Snake with about a 95 % death rate.

Simone, the Rough scale or Clarence River Tiger from memory comes in at around 18 drop for drop. It venom however, appears to travel much faster through the human body then most other species and major symptons occur very quickly after a bite as many a herper have found out.


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## bigguy (Feb 9, 2008)

Ld50 test are on mice, however I saw a special with Jamie Seymor(the Box Jelly King). On this show Jamie actually tested snake venoms on human blood which basically backed up the LD50 list.


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## Jonno from ERD (Feb 9, 2008)

jflanagan said:


> Rubbish...
> 
> The LD50 isn't highly flawed, it makes no sense to determine the most venemous snake by testing on frogs and other snakes. Common biology dicates that the LD50 would be exactly the same for all mammals, not just rodents.
> 
> 'Rodent specific neurotoxins' are just as good at killing humans as they are at killing rodents I hate to tell you.


 
Sorry mate, but I disagree. Snakes are highly evolved to exploit their habitat as best they can, and part of their habitat is their prey. Most species of snakes have a preferred prey item...rodents for Taipans, frogs for Roughies, snakes and reptiles for Mulga's etc. It therefore makes sense that their venom will be more toxic to their preferred prey item than it will be to another family of animals. 

As has been previously mentioned, Rough Scale Snakes have a tremendous effect on humans. I know of 4 seperate instances where people have been unconcious within 15 minutes of a bite - one of these was unconcious in just 4 minutes. I would hazard a guess that a significant portion of fatalities attributed to "Tiger Snakes" before the 1950's on the central east coast of Queensland are actually from Rough Scales.


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## salebrosus (Feb 9, 2008)

bigguy said:


> Simone, the Rough scale or Clarence River Tiger from memory comes in at around 18 drop for drop. It venom however, appears to travel much faster through the human body then most other species and major symptons occur very quickly after a bite as many a herper have found out.



Hey bigguy, i am aware he ranks quite low on the list comapred to others, but it is one snake i think deserves alot more attention than it gets. I have seen more of them down here on the Mary River than i have of brown snakes in this area. Most have been road kill bar one. 

I have been told many storeis of people being bitten by them and it knocking them on their butts fairly quickly.

Simone.


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## Frozenmouse (Feb 9, 2008)

Dabool said:


> 1,the small scaled snake
> 2,brown snake
> 3,taipan
> 4,tigersnake
> ...


this is a list compiled by Graeme Gow.


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## Amberoo (Feb 9, 2008)

Out of the 22 most venomous snakes in the world 19 of them are australian, Inland Taipan(Fierce Snake), Eastern Brown, Taipan, Eastern Tiger, Reevesby Inland Tiger, WA Tiger, Chappell Island Tiger Snake ,Death Adder, Western Brown, Copper Head. They are the top 10 and they are all Australian.

Amberoo.


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## giganteus (Feb 9, 2008)

I just like to plant a seed because I never see it mentioned. 
Alot people don't like the LD50 rodent test being compared to humans but I think 
if we look at the evidence and case history it supports the LD50 as putting those snakes 
at the top for humans. 

1. Inland Taipan - never been a recorded fatality but majority of bites herpers that have done
first aid. Those bitten did get messed up. 
I think you'll find the majority of sources and more importantly those you could trust put the Inland Taipan as the world's most toxic drop for drop. After that take your pick who you want to follow for the rest.

2. Eastern Brown Snake - Accounts for the most fatalities in Australia these days

3. Coastal Taipan - Enough already said.

4. Tigers - accounted for the most fatalities before they started to decline around 30 - 40 years ago.

After that the others further down the list ie. copperhead, western brown, mulga etc. whilst for some of these bites are less frequent , historically the chances of survival from a bite are greater.

Pretty ironic it supports the LD 50 so well. 

Whilst the most toxic list doesn't take into account venom yield and other factors again it correlates nicely to the bite most likely to kill, perhaps excluding the roughie. 

As already mentioned there are so many varying factors in a bite and the Rough Scaled Snake appears to be a good example of this. One bite on a lady's foot resulted in death fifteen minutes later. Roughie bites are bad news but don't under estimate the potential reaction to any bite. I know of a Western Tiger Snake bite that resulted in unconciousness in 3 minutes.

I know some will stick to their opinions which is fine, just take into account the only evidence we have to compare too. 

Regards


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## norris (Feb 9, 2008)

If a snake has the worst venom, does that make it the most dangerous? What about things like the amount of venom injected?


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## Supertaipan (Feb 9, 2008)

It depends on other things, like how agressive the snake is, how many times it will bite, size of fangs etc, The inland is the deadliest , if you look at venom yield, but that is only one factor.


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## norris (Feb 9, 2008)

Maybe they should tie 100 people down on beds and let them each get bitten by an inland taipan, and then do the same with all these other snakes. Then see which snake species kills the most people. (There'd be no treatment, the people would just lie there).

Then we'd know which one is the most dangerous.


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## salebrosus (Feb 9, 2008)

Mulgas have a much higher venom yield but the browns venom is more potent. Then again their fangs are much smaller than that of a Coastal Taipan. Either way i reckon you would **** blue sparks if you got bitten by any of them.

Simone.


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## norris (Feb 9, 2008)

I just read this (do to with coastal taipans killing 100% of bitten people before antivenom came along)....

"I’m the only person to have survived Taipan bite without the serum (antivenom)"

http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/features/snakes/taipan/survivorsgr.asp


Although he was declared dead 4 times.....


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## salebrosus (Feb 9, 2008)

A documentary by Rob Bredl, interviews John Robinson who survived a Taipan bite without antivenom,

Simone.


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## bigguy (Feb 9, 2008)

Simone, that was a Feirce Snake that bite John, not a Coastal Taipan. It was believed at the time the snake only injected a tiny amount of venom. 

Interesting read from the only survivor of a Taipan bite before 1955 in the previous post. The story has been slightly altered over the last 60years, but at least the Chisel was actually used. We were also told the young Aborigional youth never regained his former fitness. It appears from the thread this was true.


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## jflanagan (Feb 9, 2008)

1. That man which was bitten had lots of help, blood drained, the wound cared for, and the venom didn't spread. If he was on his own and left with no care for 15 minutes, no blood transfusions, he would have been very dead indeed. 

2. The amount of venom needed to kill a subject is not an indication to the amount of time needed for the patient to be killed. E.g. If a toxin destroyed hemoglobin you'd die in under 30 minutes, if it was a neurotoxin you'd die far more slowly, however you'd definitely die given enough time. Where as hemoglobin can be produced by the body, so given the dosage the body may have more ability to 'fight off' the toxin. 

The LD50 does not take into account time, which is what i think people are getting hung up on. 

3. My degree was in neurobiology, so I can be sure that on a neuro-level 99% of venoms which work on mice work equally well on humans. 

4. The LD50 is not a practical system, which people are also getting hung up on. The dosage of one bite from any of the top 10 would likely kill a human, however were not talking about that, were talking about venom. The assurance of death, given a dosage, not the assurance of death, given a bite... 

The most 'dangerous' animal is probably the mosquito.


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## norris (Feb 9, 2008)

Not that this is a "most dangerous _animal_ thread", but what about the most dangerous animal of all.....MAN.


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## Frozenmouse (Feb 10, 2008)

norris said:


> Not that this is a "most dangerous _animal_ thread", but what about the most dangerous animal of all.....MAN.


and women can be just as dangerous.


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## norris (Feb 10, 2008)

hahaha


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## Amberoo (Feb 10, 2008)

ha...ha.

The most poisonous animal in the world is a tiny little frog, i have forgotten the name, but im sure someone else will know. 

Amberoo.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2008)

*Dart frog*



Amberoo said:


> ha...ha.
> 
> The most poisonous animal in the world is a tiny little frog, i have forgotten the name, but im sure someone else will know.
> 
> Amberoo.


 that would be the dart frog (dendrobates auratus) green poison dart frog, (dendrobates pumilio) strawberry poison dart frog South America .
Very nice looking frog too. Im not sure if its the most toxic, but poisonous and venomous are totaly different from each other, as poison taken orally can have an affect , and venom taken orally might not have any affect at all unless you have a open wound. Quote me if im wrong, im not a 100% sure , but when i heard about it , it did make sense.

cheers steve.

</IMG></IMG>


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## Frozenmouse (Feb 10, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> that would be the dart frog (dendrobates auratus) green poison dart frog, (dendrobates pumilio) strawberry poison dart frog South America .
> Very nice looking frog too. Im not sure if its the most toxic, but poisonous and venomous are totaly different from each other, as poison taken orally can have an affect , and venom taken orally might not have any affect at all unless you have a open wound. Quote me if im wrong, im not a 100% sure , but when i heard about it , it did make sense.
> 
> cheers steve.
> ...


that makes sense as i have seen a doco where a perenti has a very large mulga snake for breakfast. and i was wondering how it went as it ate the head and all. also mulga snakes have a toxin that is very effective on reptiles?.


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## mysnakesau (Feb 10, 2008)

bigguy said:


> .......
> 
> a) The Coastal Taipan is normally regarded as the Worlds most dangerous snake. Before antivenom, it was 100% death rate from a full bite. Before 1955 only one youth ever recovered from a Tai bite. He was bitten by only 1 fang, through a pair of shoes and within seconds his father chopped a massive lump of flesh from his foot with a chissle. The Black Mamba comes in second with about a 97% death rate, followed closely by the Eastern Tiger Snake with about a 95 % death rate..........



I work at our local wildlife park & they have a sign displayed in their reptile section that the Inland Taipan (also known as the fierce snake (I think) ) is considered the most venomous in the world - 1 drop of of venom from this snake can kill 50 adults.


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## norris (Feb 10, 2008)

But that means nothing if they only inject a 1/1000th of a drop when they bite. I'm not saying thats how much they inject but the amount of venom they do inject is important too. This isn't a most venomous thread, its a most dangerous thread. I guess it depends on how you define "most dangerous".


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## salebrosus (Feb 10, 2008)

bigguy said:


> Simone, that was a Feirce Snake that bite John, not a Coastal Taipan. It was believed at the time the snake only injected a tiny amount of venom.
> 
> Interesting read from the only survivor of a Taipan bite before 1955 in the previous post. The story has been slightly altered over the last 60years, but at least the Chisel was actually used. We were also told the young Aborigional youth never regained his former fitness. It appears from the thread this was true.



Oops, its been so long since i saw that doco. Thanks for correcting me.

Simone.


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## Supertaipan (Feb 10, 2008)

So if we are looking at the most dangerous snake in the world, its the coastal taipan? Is this because it has the largest fangs, and if provoked will attack more aggresively than any other aussie snake?


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## norris (Feb 10, 2008)

...and because 100% (roughly anyway) of bites before anti venom resulted in death.


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## Supertaipan (Feb 13, 2008)

So Australia has the most deadly and most dangerous snakes, the Inland and Coastal Taipans, Ive heard a new Taipan species has been discovered, wonder where it will fit in?


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## sezza (Feb 13, 2008)

norris said:


> I just read this (do to with coastal taipans killing 100% of bitten people before antivenom came along)....
> 
> "I’m the only person to have survived Taipan bite without the serum (antivenom)"
> 
> ...


 
I know him! He married my parents and we used to live up north. Great man, full of life!!!


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## TANN-MANN (Feb 13, 2008)

jflanagan said:


> 1. That man which was bitten had lots of help, blood drained, the wound cared for, and the venom didn't spread. If he was on his own and left with no care for 15 minutes, no blood transfusions, he would have been very dead indeed.



I was under the impression that venom spread through the muscle tissue and had bugger all to do with blood flow??? thats why they say cutting/sucking a bite will do absolutely nothing as its already in the body.

another thing, the Sydney funnel web spider uses neurotoxins, how can it be that it is incredibly deadly to primates yet a cat will barely react (from what I hear, haven't researched this one)


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## ravensgait (Feb 13, 2008)

And here I thought North America had the most deadly snakes !! we call them Attorney's LOL couldn't resist..


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## Just_Joshin (Feb 13, 2008)

The following list is based off of a sub-cutaneous LD50 rating of venom toxicity from envenomation by LAND snakes only. It does not take into account the sea snakes/kraits of which come in #2, 3, 4 respectively. The reason for using sub-cutaneous is that in 99% of snake bites, this is the form of envenomation that results from the bite, therefore the most appropriate to base the results upon.

1. Inland Taipan
2. Eastern Brown
3. Coastal Taipan
4. Peninsular Tiger Snake
5. Saw Scaled Viper
6. Western Tiger Snake
7. Tiger Rattle Snake
8. Mainland Tiget Snake
9. Chinese Cobra
10. Black Mamba

The yield of venom must also be taken into account, however. These rating are based upon equal yields. In reality, althought the Easter Brown is 2.5 times for venomous than the caostal taipan, the coastal taipan may inject 20-30 times more venom. Therefore injecting a dose that is 8-12 times for lethal.

The type of venom should also be taken into account. The main types: Neurotoxic, Haemotoxic and cytotoxic all have varying effects. Neuro is fast acting and highly toxic, Haemo is much slower acting and Cyto is also slow and much less likely to kill you than the other 2.


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## Just_Joshin (Feb 13, 2008)

TANN-MANN said:


> I was under the impression that venom spread through the muscle tissue and had bugger all to do with blood flow??? thats why they say cutting/sucking a bite will do absolutely nothing as its already in the body.
> 
> another thing, the Sydney funnel web spider uses neurotoxins, how can it be that it is incredibly deadly to primates yet a cat will barely react (from what I hear, haven't researched this one)


In most cases envenomations are subcutaneous, therefore travel through the lymphatic system NOT the systemic circulation (blood stream). If you were to receive an intra-venous envenomation (blood stream) then there is bugger all that can be done as it'll hit your heart most likely before you can receive medical attention. Also Intra-muscular injections are very rare and basically non-existant among Australian snake as fang length is much to small. Only large specimens of vipers and rattlers are capable of true intra-muscular envenomations (i.e Large Gaboon vipers or tiger rattle snakes). These snakes are also primarily cytotoxic and therefore cause cell death of the surrounding tissue, hence why suction is commonly applied (to try and minimise necrosis NOT stop it all together). This should only ever be done with a suction device as sucking on the bite site will almost definately cause you to envenomate yourself through a cute, scratch or ulcers you may have in your mouth.

That is the reason Pressure-immobilisation is used for snake bites. Doing so restricts the flow of the lymphatic system. This drastically reduces that time it takes for the venom to reach your systemic Circulation (at which point you are in trouble).

The venom travels through the lymphatic system, up to the Thoracic Duct. The thoracic duct then feeds into the Left Subclavian vein and into the super vena cava. The super vena cava leads directly into your heart then begins pumping the venom all around your body (the point at which your in trouble).


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## shlanger (Feb 18, 2008)

*Most dangerous snake!*

All very well to theorise on the most dangerous. I reckon the most dangerous snake is the one that bites you! Here in central Vic., during April '07, at a place called Mt Alexander, a bloke was bitten by, and died from, the bite of a Little Whip Snake,[_Parasuta flagellum],_ Wilson and Swan,
page 426. My advice, 'don't get bit by any of them'!


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## croc_hunter_penny (Feb 18, 2008)

shlanger said:


> ... My advice, 'don't get bit by any of them'!



Advice that I plan to follow :lol:


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## rayjcollins (Feb 19, 2008)

Australia has 10 of the worlds 10 most dangerous snakes.
the list below is of the top 23
World’s Most Venomous Snakes
In order of lethal potency

* Not Australian snakes

1. Small-scaled snake
2. Brown snake
3. Taipan
4. Tiger snake
5. Reevesby Island tiger snake
6. Beaked sea snake
7. Western Australian tiger snake
8. Chappell Island tiger snake
9. Death adder
10. Gwardar
11. Australian copperhead
12. Indian Cobra*
13. Dugite
14. Papuan blacksnake
15. Yellow-banded snake
16. Rough-scaled snake
17. King Cobra*
18. Blue-bellied black snake
19. Collet’s snake
20. King brown snake
21. Red-bellied black snake
22. Small-eyed snake
23. Eastern diamond-back rattlesnake*
http://www.deadlyaustralians.com.au/da_venomous_snakes.htm
Ray


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## natrix (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm not 100% sure but i was under the impression that a black mamba was a lot more serious than a red belly black .


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## rayjcollins (Feb 19, 2008)

*I’m the only person to have survived Taipan bite without the serum (antivenom)*

There was another man I can recall about 30 years ago in the Bundaberg district. His name was Ran Chandler. He was a snake handler who used to go around the schools doing demonstrations. he had been bitten so many times he built up an immunity to many snake venoms including the taipan and western taipan. He eventually died through the administration of anti venom, at the age of 90.
ray


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## BIG RYANO (Feb 19, 2008)

Ram was only ever bitten once by a Taipan, and required anti-venom to survive.
He did not die from recieving anti-venom. Ram never built up immunity from any snake. In most of his bites he needed anti-venom to pull thru. He lived in the Mackay district.


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

Womanator – You have given a great description of the anatomy of a snake bite. 

I just wanted to add the most dangerous snakes in the world are in Asia. They are the Asian Cobra (I think this would be the spectacle cobra and the Russell's Viper. These two snakes kill over a thousand times more people than the Australian (or US snakes). I think it is due to them standing ground and defend them self instead of keeping away from humans (As snakes generally do here in Australia. Also Australian snakes often give dry bites or just bump instead of biting. 

Saw Russell’s viper in Thailand along with some other cool snakes (Siamese cobra, Mangrove snake, Burmese pythons, Reticulated pythons – lots of vipers and a cobra that would strike at anything) . Loved the King Cobra (Not really a cobra) I sort of got a little close to the one on display even the handler backed off. Got to love Thailand and how your life is your responsibility. The photos from that day were average due to poor lighting. 

shlanger – Whip snakes have killed a few people at Mt Alexander – Sort of a wakeup call – as a kid we used to catch whip snakes and handle them much you would handle a python or legless lizard. Still here to tell the tail.


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

I'd rather be bitte by most of those snakes in the top 10 than a Russells, sure you should live, without the limb it bit you on, as it rotted off...errr


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

Big Ryano – Below is a link to the Bangkok snake farm (this is s true snake farm where they keep their snakes in good condition – not one of the private zoos that torture animals). I think this is the second oldest snake farm (One an Argentina is older). 

http://www.thailandguidebook.com/snakefarm.html

The handler milking the snake (What appears to be a Siamese cobra) says he injects snake venom to protect against snake bite – I also think he is well over 6 years of age. (you will not see any statement of this in this article). I cannot remember seeing these guys using hooks or any other handling equipment and they were all wearing open shoes – The guy in the green shirt is holding a king cobra – very large snake – they say it has up to a 5” bite (12.5 cm bite) and it normally eats other snakes and reptiles. 

You may be able to build up immunity if you inject venom (But I am not suggesting you try this at home).


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

Banded Krait


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

You are right - the snake been milked is a Banded Krait - I was only thinking of Cobra.


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## Mangles (Feb 19, 2008)

Where does the PNG Taipan fit into the list? I have recently heard its venom is right up there with the Inland Taipan, but many people are bitten each year from it. 

Foreign Correspondant has a story on tonight at 9.30 tonight about the illegal trade in anti venom in PNG featuring David Williams (toxinologist), and apparently includes footage of him getting tagged by a PNG Taipan and almost dieing.


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

PNG taipan – I doubt this snake has been tested or studied. Therefore will not enter the list – it is the same as many snakes from around the world – With all of our sciences – if it was not studied by a scientist from a country within the Washington Accord (Relating the recognition of University qualifications) then it is not going to be accepted. I doubt anyone has studied the PNG taipan and as such will not feature on any lists. 

*Hint avoid getting bitten by any taipan and life should be good *


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## Mangles (Feb 19, 2008)

David Williams has been testing and studying it for many years.


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## NinaPeas (Feb 19, 2008)

I read somewhere that australia has the most deadly snake, mollusc and octopus.

Yea, Australia rocks! )


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## Cheesecake (Feb 19, 2008)

Supertaipan said:


> So Australia has the most deadly and most dangerous snakes, the Inland and Coastal Taipans, Ive heard a new Taipan species has been discovered, wonder where it will fit in?


 
That snake is _Oxyuranus temporalis_ collected from Walter James Range in WA and described by Doughty et al. 2007. It would probably fit in somewhere up there with the other 2 but only a single specimen has been found as far as I'm aware. Has anyone else heard any more about this recently?


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

I still think it's funny about all the who hah going on about a single dead snake found.


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## Moreliaman (Feb 19, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> that would be the dart frog (dendrobates auratus) green poison dart frog, (dendrobates pumilio) strawberry poison dart frog South America .
> Very nice looking frog too. Im not sure if its the most toxic, but poisonous and venomous are totaly different from each other, as poison taken orally can have an affect , and venom taken orally might not have any affect at all unless you have a open wound. Quote me if im wrong, im not a 100% sure , but when i heard about it , it did make sense.
> 
> cheers steve.
> ...


 
I know the dendrobates aren’t really that harmful, its the phyllobates that are the toxic little buggers, ive kept what they say is the most toxic two of the group which is terribilis & then bicolor, the terribilis I had were 3rd gen w/c & lived up to their name when I didn’t think what I was doing one day & brushed a twitch on my lip whilst wearing the rubber gloves I used to clean them out with :shock:...duh!.!(everywhere they walk is poisonous).......thankfully the only effects I felt were bad headaches & talking to "Hewey" & "Ralph" on the porcelain telephone for about half an hour..... but yeah i think you’d need either an open wound or a blonde moment like I had for it to affect you:lol:

I thought australia had the highest percentage of deadliest fauna than anywhere else full stop:lol:
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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

Moreliaman said:


> I thought australia had the highest percentage of deadliest fauna than anywhere else full stop:lol:
> </IMG></IMG></IMG>



Still, it's better than being ripped apart and eaten by a bear whilst your sleeping.


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## caustichumor (Feb 19, 2008)

I thought that the most venomous (known) animal on the planet was the irukandji jellyfish...


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## caustichumor (Feb 19, 2008)

Yeah JasonL, but your not going to accidentally step on a bear...


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

Their only the poor cousin of the box, just have a fancy name.


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

caustichumor said:


> Yeah JasonL, but your not going to accidentally step on a bear...



You don't have to, it will find you on it's own


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## Moreliaman (Feb 19, 2008)

JasonL said:


> Still, it's better than being ripped apart and eaten by a bear whilst your sleeping.


Good job theres none here then!:lol:....i think they say that a (wild) terribilis has roughly enough toxin to kill around 10-20 humans:shock:

Caustic ...what the hell is one of those?...:shockgoes off to google it)


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## JasonL (Feb 19, 2008)

and I'd rate the Box Jellyfish as the nastiest thing to encounter.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Feb 19, 2008)

Mangles said:


> Where does the PNG Taipan fit into the list? I have recently heard its venom is right up there with the Inland Taipan, but many people are bitten each year from it.
> 
> Foreign Correspondant has a story on tonight at 9.30 tonight about the illegal trade in anti venom in PNG featuring David Williams (toxinologist), and apparently includes footage of him getting tagged by a PNG Taipan and almost dieing.



i also wonder why this still doesnt get a mention,or why the studies into its venoms toxicity 
not common knowledge now


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## Chimera (Feb 19, 2008)

I think you'll find that the Australian snakes are the deadliest, however there is an effective first aid treatment along with effective medical infrastructure in Australia. To touch on another thread, the situation in PNG highlights the danger that the Australian Taipans can pose.


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## shlanger (Feb 19, 2008)

Miss Croft, you state that, "Whip snakes have killed a few people at Mt Alexander", can you elaborate please ? I Have lived in the district for 50+ years, been keeping herp for 40, this is the first that I have heard of! More information please!


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## lazybuddha (Feb 19, 2008)

i heard someone died, but i believe the venom had a reaction to his heart medication


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

Shlanger - I lost an argument in the early 90s about whip snakes and the fact they would have trouble getting a bite in and that their fangs are too short to endanger anyone. I was told someone got bitten near Mt Alexander by a whip snake and died. I believe he was bitten on finger that resulted in his death. Not sure about the exact date but 87 comes to mind. Hope this helps… Hope that helps…. 

Here is the 2007 case of whip snake bite. 
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21562098-1702,00.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/harmless-snake-proves-deadly/2007/04/16/1176575716438.html

Back to the topic of deadly snakes in Australia… This link might help

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bush/myth.html
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/181_11_061204/cur10911_fm.html#CACEEGCI
http://www.avru.org/compendium/biogs/A000084b.htm
http://www.ciap.health.nsw.gov.au/downloads/guidelines/Snake_spider_guidelines_GL2007_006_3.pdf


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## shlanger (Feb 19, 2008)

Thank you for your reply, Miss Croft! Don't care how many arguments you have lost , {but I'm begining to suspect it's lots!} Don't care much for what some one has told you! Don't care much for what you believe! Don't care much for what your not sure about! You made a statment to the effect that, "Whip snakes have killed a few people at Mt. Alexander", I asked you to prove said statment, you have not done so!
Please Miss Croft, put up "hard evidence" or....................................................................


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## Miss_Croft (Feb 19, 2008)

Shlanger – I will not be able to find any evidence of other little whip snake bites in Mt Alexander. There are a few reasons:

Snake records block whip snakes into “other snakes”
News records pre-internet are hard to come by without taking the time searching through micro fish.
The snake bite in question may be incorrectly identified juvenile common brown
 All I am saying is I have heard of other whip snake bite deaths from the Mt Alexander region.


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