# Confirm or Deny...



## Gruni (Nov 8, 2012)

Well after following the other thread I have to ask... Is this a taipan or not?


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## jase75 (Nov 8, 2012)

Just had a look at the pic on my IPad, 100% Brown Tree Snake. No doubt at all. What a hero, killing a Harmless Brown Tree Snake. Not sure what ID book he looked at to identify it as a Taipan but I'd be asking for my money back.


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## corky (Nov 8, 2012)

View attachment 270192
Here's a picture of the goose from another website.


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## Gruni (Nov 8, 2012)

Pic didn't work Corky...


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## JasonL (Nov 8, 2012)

I cant see what it is on my computer... pretty sure its a snake though lol


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## serpenttongue (Nov 8, 2012)

Looks like a BTS.


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## Leasdraco (Nov 8, 2012)

As already said Not a taipan.big giveaway is the taipans head isnt defined like that.its sad that he killed it.some people think any "brown" snake up north must be a taipan and deserves to be killed


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 11, 2012)

jase75 said:


> Just had a look at the pic on my IPad, 100% Brown Tree Snake. No doubt at all. What a hero, killing a Harmless Brown Tree Snake. Not sure what ID book he looked at to identify it as a Taipan but I'd be asking for my money back.


I fail to see how you can justify a comment like that when people with a strong interest in reptiles are uncertain. Not to mention that you are looking at a photograph (= stationary) of a full snake and not catching glimpses of it moving through grass. The reality is that people who don't know snakes don't know the difference. The recent spate of taipan bites and deaths does help in eliciting a calm and reasonable response to what people think is a taipan. 

The head could have been flattened when it was killed and irrespective, I can put in some links to pics of a taipan where the head is quite distinct from the neck. 

What would be more constructive is giving your reasons, as the rules of this section request. That would help others in their field identification skills.

Please note, that I do not know the attitude of the person responsible nor the exact circumstances. However, it would be appropriate to withhold judgement until these were confirmed and made public.


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## jase75 (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm pretty sure most people with a good knowledge of snakes would have no problems to confidently I'd that as a Brown Tree Snake from that picture. If you check some other sites and some of the more recent comments on the article you will see some very knowledgable people agreeing on what this snake is. If you look closely at the pic you can even see the banding towards the tail end that is typical of BTS's. Looking at overall body shape and colour and this looks absolutely nothing like a Taipan. Even if it was a Taipan, that in no was excuses how this idiot acted. Anyone who has had anything at all to do with snakes will know this whole story is a load of BS. Also I think if you read the article you will find that Ron killed the snake first and then id'd it from his book.


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## Wally (Nov 11, 2012)

Did the man not leave the relative safety of his car to dispatch the unsuspecting _irregularis _?


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## jase75 (Nov 11, 2012)

Exactly Wally, he chose to leave his car and approach a snake that he didn't know what it was and then calls the paper to do a story on what a hero he is. And he says he had no choice but to kill it. What a joke. Poor Brown Tree Snake.


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## saximus (Nov 11, 2012)

Where's the article?


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## Gruni (Nov 11, 2012)

Here... http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/reptile-news-5375/pleystowe-couple-come-face-face-195141/


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## Cockney_Red (Nov 11, 2012)

Not!!


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 11, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I fail to see how you can justify a comment like that when people with a strong interest in reptiles are uncertain. Not to mention that you are looking at a photograph (= stationary) of a full snake and not catching glimpses of it moving through grass. The reality is that people who don't know snakes don't know the difference. The recent spate of taipan bites and deaths does help in eliciting a calm and reasonable response to what people think is a taipan.
> 
> The head could have been flattened when it was killed and irrespective, I can put in some links to pics of a taipan where the head is quite distinct from the neck.
> 
> ...




have a read of the newspaper storey blue,this guy spotted this snake at night next to a frog pond on his property, went over to it and it allegedly "stood up to its full height and was going to have him" so he took it out with a piece of fencing wire to avoid instant death.which he would have had to go find a piece of wire mind you all during an instant before his impending doom.
His storey is an absolute lie,and the newspaper has made it even worse,on top of that it is a Brown tree snake which as we all know does not in anyway behave as described by this bogan.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 11, 2012)

i would rather gouge my eyes out with an icecream scoop than read some of those newspaper comments again lol


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 12, 2012)

jase75 said:


> I'm pretty sure most people with a good knowledge of snakes would have no problems to confidently I'd that as a Brown Tree Snake from that picture. If you check some other sights and some of the more recent comments on the article you will see some very knowledgable people agreeing on what this snake is. If you look closely at the pic you can even see the banding towards the tail end that is typical of BTS's. Looking at overall body shape and colour and this looks absolutely nothing like a Taipan. Even if it was a Taipan, that in no was excuses how this idiot acted. Anyone who has had anything at all to do with snakes will know this whole story is a load of BS. Also I think if you read the article you will find that Ron killed the snake first and then id'd it from his book.


No question that the man did the wrong thing. It is an unsafe and an unnecessary act. Whether he did so out of ignorance or out of malice towards snakes, I don’t know. The point I would make is that it is not our place to assume or to reconstruct the story to make him out as the villain. Education and not condemnation is required. 

“Anyone who has had anything at all to do with snakes will know this whole story is a load of BS.” I know a little bit about snakes and I did not think the story sounded false. You arrive home, see a snake in the yard in fading light, so go over to have a closer look. Most snakes would shoot through as you got close. A BTS not in a tree or near cover is much more likely to arc up than flee. So the home owner is confronted with a very aggro 2m brown coloured snake that is not moving off. He grabs the nearest available object to dispatch it. I fail to see the b.s.

“this looks absolutely nothing like a Taipan” is inaccurate and does not help. To the experienced eye the two species are distinctly different. However, that does not mean they do not look alike (for at least certain forms). 

I do appreciate that the attitude of someone reporting the killing of a snake to the local paper makes their motives automatically suspect. However, given the snake was thought to be a Taipan, it may be motivated by community awareness. We don’t know! 

Here is where education would help. If someone were to write to the paper explaining it was actually a BTS and describing this snake's behaviour, how venomous they are, how not to attract them into yards and how to identify them, that would be constructive. We want to get rid of the ignorance. I might add here that being ignorant of BTS behaviour does not make one an “idiot”. Just as well or there would be some upset people on this forum.


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## jase75 (Nov 12, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> No question that the man did the wrong thing. It is an unsafe and an unnecessary act. Whether he did so out of ignorance or out of malice towards snakes, I don’t know. The point I would make is that it is not our place to assume or to reconstruct the story to make him out as the villain. Education and not condemnation is required.
> 
> “Anyone who has had anything at all to do with snakes will know this whole story is a load of BS.” I know a little bit about snakes and I did not think the story sounded false. You arrive home, see a snake in the yard in fading light, so go over to have a closer look. Most snakes would shoot through as you got close. A BTS not in a tree or near cover is much more likely to arc up than flee. So the home owner is confronted with a very aggro 2m brown coloured snake that is not moving off. He grabs the nearest available object to dispatch it. I fail to see the b.s.
> 
> ...



" I was 3 meters away or more and he stood right up in the air, nearly his full height" iv encountered probably 800 plus snakes in the wild and I have never seen a snake act that way, especially when I'm 3 or more meters away. Total BS, more like after he gave it the first whack with the fencing wire it reacted and defended itself as you would expect it to. I'm sure this guy got lots of handshakes and pats on the back at the pub the next day, which I think was more likely the reason for contacting the paper. And where did I say he was a "idiot" for being ignorant of BTS behavior ?? You seem to be twisting my words there, have you ever thought of becoming a reporter for the Daily Mercury ?


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 12, 2012)

*$NaKe PiMp,*
A quote from the newspaper…
"I hopped out of the car to have a look at him," Mr Lean said. "I was three metres away or more and he stood right up in the air, nearly his full height.”…….. "He was going to have me, and I thought I'm better off having you."

A quote from you…
“a Brown tree snake which as we all know does not in anyway behave as described by this bogan.” 
Please delete my name from the “all” list. In my experience, if you disturb a BTS in a bush or tree, they are gone like a flash. However, if you catch them out in the open, it’s a whole different ball game. I would say Mr. Lean gave an accurate layman’s description of the expected behaviour of a BTS under those circumstances. Cogger describes their behaviour as: “Very aggressive when aroused, throwing the fore part of the body into a series of S-shaped loops from which it strikes accurately and savagely, often with mouth agape.” Others that provide similar but less detailed descriptions are Wilson and Knowles p373 and Wilson and Swan (3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Ed) p440. 

"….so he took it out with a piece of fencing wire to avoid instant death.which he would have had to go find a piece of wire mind you all during an instant before his impending doom." Death was never mentioned. How do you know he had to go looking for the fencing wire? If he had to go look for something, why not get a shovel or a gun? Or it could it possibly be he had been doing some fencing and the wire close at hand. Maybe it was even on the back of a truck parked in the drive? You do get that in rural areas. 

“His story is an absolute lie...” you say… It is if you change the story like you have.

He does not need to be villainised. He needs to be educated.

PS Sorry *Jase,* I am all out of personal insults. You'll have to find someone else to trade them with.


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## vicherps (Nov 13, 2012)

Cockney_Red said:


> The shortest, and most pertinent post you have made..


I like blues posts and think they are all pretty much relevant to the topic at hand. I think he is a very knowledgable bloke and enjoy reading his posts.


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## vicherps (Nov 13, 2012)

jase75 said:


> I think it's more of a discussion than a argument. There has been no name calling or threats, I think it has been quite civilized when compared to some threads on here. I'm sure if the mods thought it was arguing they would have closed the thread by now. Blue gave his opinion, I gave mine, so did some other people. Isn't that what a forum like this is about? And I agree with you, I'm sure Blue is a knowledgable guy and I have nothing against him. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with everything he says.



Perhaps discussion is the better word to use but technically an argument is a form of disagreement that is going on here. Discussions can get out of hand and it is hard to know when you have crossed the boundary over the internet. Whilst I have seen worse insults posted on aps I wouldn't call some of the insults posted on this thread civilised.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 13, 2012)

its all about the APS Love each and every member has a special connection with the others,like an intricate web of joy and joyousness

i have encountered a couple of Brown Tree Snakes this year here in sunny Sydney,funny enough i haven't seen one in a tree only on open ground, a rock ledge or in one case the snake was in a BBQ entertaining area cupboard. None of them stood up to full height though whatever that is.but people certainly do exaggerate snakes behaviours,part of the reason why i have a job i suppose.
Yes i totally agree we need to educate.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 13, 2012)

$NaKe PiMp said:


> .... None of them stood up to full height though whatever that is.but people certainly do exaggerate snakes behaviours....


Allow me to point out the logical error… If you don’t know what it is then you how do you know they did or did not do it? And you conveniently omitted the adjective “almost” in reference to height. Are you implying by your statement that behavioural description that Hal Cogger gives is exaggerated? Mr. Cogger makes them sound a lot more fearsome than Mr. Lean did. 

Mr. Lean did NOT say full ‘length’, as some seem to imply. He said “almost to its full height”. I would interpret “full height” to mean “as high as the snake could get” if its lifted body stood straight up. Bear in mind that a BTS is more than capable of lifting the majority of its body off the ground and they do hold their body in a more vertical position than most snakes, when doing so. If it was in strike posture, the S-shaped loops would reduce the actual height compared to the potential height. 

All of this was covered in the term I used previously... “a layman’s description”. That you expect pinpoint technical accuracy from some one being popped questions on the spot by a reporter and hot on the heels of what was most likely an emotion charged situation, is indicative of a closed mind attitude of “guilty until proven innocent”. 

I am not saying I am right and you are wrong. What I am saying is that we need to be fair!!! 

Blue


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## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 14, 2012)

you have really looked into this blue,and you are correct in what your saying.
I need to stop getting angry at these stories,there is too many of them,and in my job i am exposed to them constantly,especialy people love to tell me these stories over and over again,everywhere i go.It is something i am condemned to.


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 14, 2012)

*$NaKe PiMp*,
Whilst it is not a competition, you are clearly a winner! 
You have earned my respect.
 
Blue


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