# my girl had pupps



## saintanger (Dec 22, 2012)

my beautiful dark blue amstaff charlott had a litter today 9 pups all up. well she is actually my partners dog but she lives at my house so i class her as one of mine. the father is our beautiful boy a brindle blue.

this was a planned pregnancy and we were more than ready for it. 

please no negative replies of how its more unwanted dogs in the world as it aint. these pups will stay with me till they go to their new homes also i already have a few people on a waiting list for some of them. i am also not advertising them on here just showing people my beautiful puppies. if i want to advertise i will do in the for sale section at a later date.

would love to see other peoples blue amstaffs, so post pics up if you do own one. also if your dogs had pups this year feel free to show off the little cuties.


----------



## Vixen (Dec 22, 2012)

saintanger said:


> please no negative replies of how its more unwanted dogs in the world as it aint. these pups will stay with me till they go to their new homes



Has to be said - it's still leaving other dogs without a home, as they are taking up those places. Not many people would think twice about adopting the poor, homeless shelter dog even when they would make a perfectly good family member - when there is a fresh litter of 'cute' puppies born every bloody second..

Good on you for being well prepared, but that doesn't make it any more right. Sorry it's just one of my biggest pet peeves - no pun intended. 

Before anyone breeds they should go take a good long walk through the pound, and be there when they have to put down perfectly good loving dogs every single day.. :evil::cry:


----------



## sd1981 (Dec 22, 2012)

Gorgeous pups mate, thanks for sharing...


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

Vixen said:


> Has to be said - it's still leaving other dogs without a home, as they are taking up those places. Not many people would think twice about adopting the poor, homeless shelter dog even when they would make a perfectly good family member - when there is a fresh litter of 'cute' puppies born every bloody second..
> 
> Good on you for being well prepared, but that doesn't make it any more right. Sorry it's just one of my biggest pet peeves - no pun intended.
> 
> Before anyone breeds they should go take a good long walk through the pound, and be there when they have to put down perfectly good loving dogs every single day.. :evil::cry:



as you already know from my other post 2 of my dogs i got from the pound, but 2 i got from breeders cause its my partners favourite breed and i have never seen a blue pedegree amstaff for sale at a pound or i would of got one there as it would have been alot cheaper. people have the right to choose the breed of dog they want and what suits their life style. you can't get blue amstaffs at pounds and on rare occasions they might have one but they sell very quickly. 


just like people have the right to breed reptiles who end up homeless, dumped in the wild, dropped off at animal shelter or given away. i understand its more common with dogs but it happend with all animals but only dog and cat breeders get ridiculed for it. i have been asked to take in 3 more pythons cause of people buying off breeders then changing their mind, i just bought another multi bay tank to house them, insted of complaining about it to people who breed them.


----------



## Ricko (Dec 23, 2012)

Are these registered and papered Amstaff's?


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

both parents are registed, and i have paper work for the mother, fathers paper work i need to track down as i bought him at 5 months from a breeder who no longer could care for the amount of amstaffs they had (had 2 extra males they were gonna breed in the future) and he lost the paper work as he was moving house at the time. 

i will have to look into getting the pupps a certificate of registration and pedigree.

why do you ask?


----------



## Snapped (Dec 23, 2012)

Didn't your dog have a litter of puppies in September?


I think the previous person was asking if they are pedigreed Amstaffs, because there are so many backyard breeders of these dogs (and many other breeds) who breed without doing any health testing etc


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

that was my dog not my partners and since then the male who jumps the fence has passed away, R.I.P Diesel. and she had 5 pups in august which all have lovely homes and were given away for free and will never happen again as i have had her desexed and my other female is also desexed. as i said in the other forum i never wanted to breed that dog, she is my best mate it was an accident as me and my partner had just moved in together and he has 2 males and i had 1 intact female and she was not due to go on heat so i thought it would be ok if i waited a bit as i was busy moving and with a baby ect.

yes they are both pedigree dogs.


----------



## RedFox (Dec 23, 2012)

Not sure about the laws in NSW bit in vic, the council can seize and euthanize any dogs that look like a pitbull or pitbull cross. Amstaffs down here need papers to prove they are amstaffs and not pitbulls. That being said I have seen a few backyard breeders breeding them without papers to make money. 

Do you show your dogs? Pedigree breeders have a place if they are improving the breed and hopefully helping to breed out some of the genetic disorders present in our "pures". Such as now German shepherds, labs, goldens, etc have to have hip scores. 

I own pedigrees. They are retired greyhounds that I adopted. I have being on both side adopting and helping these beautiful dogs to be adopted. When being faced with the possiblity of having to put down a perfectly healthy, happy, gorgeous 18month pup because no one wanted her, you can see why I would get upset. That pup now lives with us and I don't help with the adoptions anymore.


----------



## sharky (Dec 23, 2012)

Beautiful, I love Amstaffs! Such a gorgeous breed of dog  CONGRATS on the puppies and good luck with the little terrrors!!!


----------



## Supra_man87 (Dec 23, 2012)

Beautiful puppies! Congrats! Good luck and I hope all goes well with them!


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

they are terrors both parents were naughty puppies and gave me hell. i have never put my dogs into shows but charlotts father has won multiples shows including best in show and her older brother from a previous litter has won a few shows too. the breeder also showed me proof of this. shaytons history i dont know as well but i did meet his older brother who has won a few shows too.


----------



## sharky (Dec 23, 2012)

Excuse my ignorance but I don't know much about the pricing of dogs. how much would these guys sell for if you don't mind me asking? (you don't have to answer if you don't want to )

MODS: This is not advertising sales as I have no intention on buying an Amstaff. I already have dogs. I am just asking how much Amstaffs normally cost as I am very curious person and feel I have to know these things!


----------



## thomasssss (Dec 23, 2012)

what are the nsw laws on amstaffs ?, i was told that they have to be a papered amstaff or its the same as vic and they are considered a pit bull and put down and even if they are papered then i thought they had to be kept in a confined area etc this is what my mate told me who breeds these "amstaffs" himself in nsw


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

sharkyy1o5 said:


> Excuse my ignorance but I don't know much about the pricing of dogs. how much would these guys sell for if you don't mind me asking? (you don't have to answer if you don't want to )
> 
> MODS: This is not advertising sales as I have no intention on buying an Amstaff. I already have dogs. I am just asking how much Amstaffs normally cost as I am very curious person and feel I have to know these things!



i will PM you.

- - - Updated - - -



thomasssss said:


> what are the nsw laws on amstaffs ?, i was told that they have to be a papered amstaff or its the same as vic and they are considered a pit bull and put down and even if they are papered then i thought they had to be kept in a confined area etc this is what my mate told me who breeds these "amstaffs" himself in nsw



Amstaffs are not restricted , because the Amstaff is an ANKC recognised breed and the canine councils have done the deals to keep them safe, providing they have papers issued by the ANKC's state bodies or if they are imported, they have papers from a body that the ANKC recognises. 

my partner has had the council come out to his old place as someone complained saying he had pitbulls ect, council ranges straight away identified 2 as amstaffs and one they were not sure so they asked him to have the dog assessed by a qulified person who also breeds amstaffs and she identifed the dog as an amstaff.


these dogs are not restricted so they are NOT considered a pit bull even though they are basically cousins and have the same genetic make up. they do not have to be confined ect if they did i am pretty sure the council ranger would of let me know wen he came out as at the time we had 3 of them.


----------



## thomasssss (Dec 23, 2012)

no worries saint , the last part is interesting though , thats why i put amstaff in the " " before , from what ive been told an amstaff is basically more of a pure show dog than a pitbull but are essentially the same dog in a lot of ways , although he does have to have his caged , the council came out and gave him a bit of a hard time about it even though his are papered etc apparently thats the laws for amstaffs whilst the laws on pitbulls are that they are flat out illegal


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

yep, his may be papered but they may look like pits as the breeds are very simular. to tell you the truth most council rangers see amstaffs as pitbulls that is why they are not allowed to breed asses the dog and are only allowed to issue the owner with a notice to get their dog assessed by a profetional.


pits originated from cross breeding amstaffs. you only need to have a dog caged if it is a restricted breed or if the dog is demed dangerous. and before a council can lable a dog as dangerous they must get a qualified person to do a temperment test. it sounds like he does own amstaffs but they have been demed dangerous because they are to agressive ect thats why he can still breed them but must have them caged.


both my amstaffs are great loyal dogs, shayton barks and can look scarey but he will not bite he just tries to scare people away and charlott is an absolute baby who does not even bark. garanteed if any of my dogs were to ever bite wit would be my chihuahua before my amstaffs ever would.


----------



## thomasssss (Dec 23, 2012)

his may have been labelled dangerous dogs im not 2 sure ill have to ask , i just went out there one day and they where all in cages and he said he had to or they would be seized


----------



## dangles (Dec 23, 2012)

In regards to getting papers for the pups. Unless u have a breeders name registered. And papers for both parents before the birth of pups it's near impossible to get limited or full papers. I tried to get papers for staffy pups bred from a mates purebred bitch and my dog. Both had full papers, but because neither had a breeding name registered, were unable to get papers for the pups.
Btw I'm in nsw

in response to pound dogs, I've owned 2, both cost me s fortune throughout there lives. My purebred staffy cost me the initial outlay and no addition vet charges apart from vaccinations. One of the reasons many people will only buy from a reputable breeder


----------



## Shotta (Dec 23, 2012)

little cuties lol i love their little pink noses


----------



## Snapped (Dec 23, 2012)

saintanger said:


> yep, his may be papered but they may look like pits as the breeds are very simular. to tell you the truth most council rangers see amstaffs as pitbulls that is why they are not allowed to breed asses the dog and are only allowed to issue the owner with a notice to get their dog assessed by a profetional.
> 
> 
> pits originated from cross breeding amstaffs. you only need to have a dog caged if it is a restricted breed or if the dog is demed dangerous. and before a council can lable a dog as dangerous they must get a qualified person to do a temperment test. it sounds like he does own amstaffs but they have been demed dangerous because they are to agressive ect thats why he can still breed them but must have them caged.
> ...



Just wanted to point out that Pitbulls originated from crossing Bulldogs with Terriers, bred for fighting. 

Interesting read about the full history of the Pitbull Pit Bull Breed History -- Pitbull


----------



## thomasssss (Dec 23, 2012)

Snapped said:


> Just wanted to point out that Pitbulls originated from crossing Bulldogs with Terriers, bred for fighting.
> 
> Interesting read about the full history of the Pitbull Pit Bull Breed History -- Pitbull



"Ultimately the AKC did recognize the pit bull in 1936, albeit under the designation of the Staffordshire Terrier, named after the region of England where the crossbreeding of bulldogs and terriers is thought to have begun."

that parts interesting


----------



## Vixen (Dec 23, 2012)

RedFox said:


> Do you show your dogs? Pedigree breeders have a place if they are improving the breed and hopefully helping to breed out some of the genetic disorders present in our "pures". Such as now German shepherds, labs, goldens, etc have to have hip scores.



I do agree with this somewhat, but 'showing' was the absolute WORST thing that could have happened for some breeds, including the German Shepherd. 

Just look at the breed even 50 - 100 years ago, and look at the 'show' quality dog today, they are nothing but a shadow of the magnificence they used to be. Max von Stephanitz would be turning over in his grave. They are one of my favourite breeds and I would love to have one on my life some day, but if I do I will be avoiding show lines at all costs, and going straight for the German working lines which at least somewhat resemble what they used to, and have the working disposition and correct temperament for the breed.

Some 'pedigree' breeders are just as bad as backyard breeders in my eyes though, only doing it do boost their own egos in the show ring and earn as much money as they can by breeding as many litters as they can. I showed my German Shorthaired Pointer a little when he was a pup, but soon left that scene - you wouldn't BELIEVE the number of absolutely NASTY, BITCHY people that do it, there was maybe one other shower I got along with, out of hundreds. 

It's also a very very biased thing, dogs don't win because they are the best representation of their breed, they win by WHO the owners are! Honestly, and i'm not tugging my own string here, my little boy was the nicest looking GSP there and very true to his breed standard ( and he should be, his father is one of the most successful GSP's in Australia, with over 15 Best In Shows under his belt ) but not once did he place anything significant because where I live, the breeders name meant nothing and the 'local' breeder held the ring.

History of the change in the german shepherd over the years - YouTube


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

Snapped said:


> Just wanted to point out that Pitbulls originated from crossing Bulldogs with Terriers, bred for fighting.
> 
> Interesting read about the full history of the Pitbull Pit Bull Breed History -- Pitbull



yeah i'v heard that but alot of sites say that it is a mix of cross breeding amstaffs with bulldogs and some sites reckon its amstaffs cross bulldogs cross terriers. who knows.

- - - Updated - - -



thomasssss said:


> "Ultimately the AKC did recognize the pit bull in 1936, albeit under the designation of the Staffordshire Terrier, named after the region of England where the crossbreeding of bulldogs and terriers is thought to have begun."
> 
> that parts interesting



well they dont recognize them any more.

- - - Updated - - -



Vixen said:


> I do agree with this somewhat, but 'showing' was the absolute WORST thing that could have happened for some breeds, including the German Shepherd.
> 
> Just look at the breed even 50 - 100 years ago, and look at the 'show' quality dog today, they are nothing but a shadow of the magnificence they used to be. Max von Stephanitz would be turning over in his grave. They are one of my favourite breeds and I would love to have one on my life some day, but if I do I will be avoiding show lines at all costs, and going straight for the German working lines which at least somewhat resemble what they used to, and have the working disposition and correct temperament for the breed.
> 
> ...



i agree alot of dogs were better off the way they were. i don't show my dogs, i can't deal with the whole scene. plus i got better things to do with my time.


----------



## Grogshla (Dec 23, 2012)

those puppies are so cute! Thanks for sharing the pics.


----------



## dangles (Dec 23, 2012)

saintanger said:


> yeah i'v heard that but alot of sites say that it is a mix of cross breeding amstaffs with bulldogs and some sites reckon its amstaffs cross bulldogs cross terriers.



original amstaffs(pit bulls) were the cross breeds of bulldogs and terriers. It was when they were breeding traits out that they became different. Not unusual for breeders to breed father/daughter or mother/son to breed traits into or out of their lines


----------



## Burnerism (Dec 23, 2012)

Vixen said:


> Has to be said - it's still leaving other dogs without a home, as they are taking up those places. Not many people would think twice about adopting the poor, homeless shelter dog even when they would make a perfectly good family member - when there is a fresh litter of 'cute' puppies born every bloody second..
> 
> Good on you for being well prepared, but that doesn't make it any more right. Sorry it's just one of my biggest pet peeves - no pun intended.
> 
> Before anyone breeds they should go take a good long walk through the pound, and be there when they have to put down perfectly good loving dogs every single day.. :evil::cry:



How hypocritical of you. By your logic you better get rid of all your clutches in the incubator then, it defently goes the same with herps.


----------



## Vixen (Dec 23, 2012)

Burnerism said:


> How hypocritical of you. By your logic you better get rid of all your clutches in the incubator then, it defently goes the same with herps.



Hardly. There are many more homeless cats and dogs than there are reptiles. And also the fact by law ( in most areas ) - there is only two dogs maximum in one household lot really puts a strain on the situation.
There's no such rule against reptiles, and most people DEFINITELY keep more than two snakes!

It's inevitable some may end up in less than ideal homes, but if reptiles were at the critical point dogs and cats were, of course I wouldn't be breeding them.


----------



## Burnerism (Dec 23, 2012)

More or less is irrelevant because in your words it's still leaving others without a home. What's good for one is good for another. And so somehow our preferences with liking jags or cross bread mutts is also now been questioned?? Neway moving on this thread has been hijacked enough


----------



## Vixen (Dec 23, 2012)

You are comparing dogs to reptiles, THAT is completely irrevelant. 

Also the fact i've never even SEEN a 'homeless' snake in my 6-7 years in the hobby. There are always more homes for them, unlike dogs. And in the case someone needs to move a reptile on for whatever reasons, they are almost snapped up instantly if they are give-away, the same can't be said for dogs or cats.


----------



## Burnerism (Dec 23, 2012)

Your clearly missing the point, ill let you have the last word as this is growing tiresome. Should you wish to continue this you can pm me or better yet ill hijack your next "how exciting" hatchy thread with some leftist rant.


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

you'v never seen a homless snake? look in the free to good home sectiion. also i picked up 3 pythons that i was offered to take for free as they no longer had a home and owner had gone another way in his breeding project. one of the snakes he addmitted he did not want it as he had found a better looking one and no longer needed this male for breeding. hmmm

so far this year i have taken in 12 pythons, 1 beardie, 1 blue tongue and 1 turtle. the problem is starting to get bigger than you think. but not as noticable as alot of reptiles get dumped in the bush ect. i just bought a few more multi bay tanks total of 17 enclosures because i had to make room for the 3 new ones.

- - - Updated - - -

but anyway who's got pics of their pups or blue amstaffs? try to get my thread back on track.


----------



## Vixen (Dec 23, 2012)

Burnerism said:


> or better yet ill hijack your next "how exciting" hatchy thread with some leftist rant.



Very mature..  I wasn't attacking Saintanger personally, it was just a general comment about the dog industry and backyard breeders as a whole - spreading awareness and making people have a second think about things isn't a crime, when it's the poor dogs and cats that have to pay for our mistakes.

Saintanger sorry for the little biff in your thread, as I said it wasn't really supposed to be directed at you personally - and I do wish you all the best with your new pups.

- - - Updated - - -



saintanger said:


> you'v never seen a homless snake? look in the free to good home sectiion. also i picked up 3 pythons that i was offered to take for free as they no longer had a home and owne had gone another way in his breeding project.



I understand there's constantly snakes up for sale, and re-homing happening, but in 99% of cases they find homes very quickly do they not (especially when for free)? What I meant was i've never seen a 'homeless' snake that's had to be abandoned or put down if noone wants it. This is what I was just trying to get at.


----------



## thomasssss (Dec 23, 2012)

Vixen said:


> Also the fact i've never even SEEN a 'homeless' snake in my 6-7 years in the hobby


dont kid yourself , how do you think species from completely different parts of australia (the world at times) get found in random parts of australia , its after someone has released it because they didnt want it , thats pretty close to a " homeless" or unwanted snake , so if youve never seen one or heard of it in 6-7 years you must have your head in the sand


----------



## Burnerism (Dec 23, 2012)

No they always do not and alot get frozen or "dissppsed" of if they don't sell. Do you check reptiles for dog collars to identify which one is homeless and which one isn't? How many generic beardies and pythons are constantly getting pumped out each season that they can't even get rid of when they are practically been given away. I knew someone like you would of ranted on about puppy farms before i even originally opened this thread as I'm sure alot of others did including Saintanger who covered puppy farming in her opening post. Let it be and let this thread move on already.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 23, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> dont kid yourself , how do you think species from completely different parts of australia (the world at times) get found in random parts of australia , its after someone has released it because they didnt want it , thats pretty close to a " homeless" or unwanted snake , so if youve never seen one or heard of it in 6-7 years you must have your head in the sand



$nakepimp just had a thread about pythons hed found, and it came up in there that a water python was found at a sydney golf course, so yeah to think there are no homeless reptiles is a bit naive in my opinion.


----------



## J-A-X (Dec 23, 2012)

Get it back on track guys and gals ! 
Or I'll get the relevant mod to go back over this thread and decided what is relevant to the original post


----------



## saintanger (Dec 23, 2012)

i was going to say that, snakes have been found in areas they are not native to and they all did not escape they get dumped, i know some people in the hobby who breed and if they don't sell all their hatchies they rather release them then give them away for free. some people prefer dumping as its not as noticable as dumping a dog. i have seen people struggle to rehome reptiles that are for free with injuries or deformities. who wants a bluey with MBD, a python with a lump, a turtle with fungus ect.

- - - Updated - - -



JaxRtfm said:


> Get it back on track guys and gals !
> Or I'll get the relevant mod to go back over this thread and decided what is relevant to the original post



thanks, so were are all the blue amstaff pics?


----------



## Vixen (Dec 23, 2012)

saintanger said:


> i was going to say that, snakes have been found in areas they are not native to and they all did not escape they get dumped, i know some people in the hobby who breed and if they don't sell all their hatchies they rather release them then give them away for free.



Well that's just completely idiotic and irresponsible - but people are twisting my words here. My point still stands, of course it happens, but NOWHERE near on the same level as what happens to our fluffy companions. 

There will always be people happy to take in ' free ' reptiles, although i'm not taking into account the LAZY people who can't take a moment to advertise them as such and instead just release into the wild as everyone has mentioned. Yet there are thousands upon thousands of dogs and cats who can't find homes, even when they ARE free.

And except for the negative impact on the environment obviously, an abandoned snake doesn't really 'care' that it was abandoned into the wild. They don't form attachments to people in the ways dogs and cats do.


----------



## J-A-X (Dec 23, 2012)

You were warned people


----------



## Stuart (Dec 23, 2012)

Thread closed


----------

