# Live Food: Legal or Not?



## markannab (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm hearing conflicting stories on the legality of feeding a snake live food. For the record, I don't plan to. So this is purely an academic discussion.

The reptile park near Gosford, NSW breeds & sells snakes (Google: Snakeranch). On their site, they have a "how to" section on heating, etc but this also discusses feeding, including descriptions on how to offer LIVE food. Is it only illegal in certain states? If not, where has so much discussion about it being illegal come from?

Mark.


----------



## GeckoJosh (Apr 21, 2012)

Hmm I just read that, it also talks of offering frogs and lizards :shock:


----------



## thomasssss (Apr 21, 2012)

i read a thread on here a few months back maybe longer and basically after alot of pages and people saying it is , it isn't no one could show any reference to any sort of law stating it is illegal only one from the RSPCA i think it was that said it was a RECOMMENDATION ONLY to feed dead prey because of the risks involved with feeding live so yea it isnt illegal but is frowned upon unless its absolutely necessary


----------



## GeckoJosh (Apr 21, 2012)

Yeah pretty much you can feed live prey as a last resort.
Feeding lizards and frogs I thought was illegal


----------



## Tinky (Apr 21, 2012)

Can I feed live mice to a reptile? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

*Is feeding live prey legal?

*The legality of feeding live mice to reptiles depends upon the relevant State/Territory legislation and relevant code of practice. In some States, the code recommends that reptiles should not be fed live food for their own protection and all vertebrate-eating reptiles must be encouraged to take dead food. In others it is recommended that: live vertebrates are not used as a food unless they are required absolutely as a food source by a species or individual animal; live rodents should not be left in a reptile enclosure overnight or for an extended period; and wild-caught rodents should not be used. However, these codes of practice are not enforceable by law and are therefore recommendations only.


----------



## thomasssss (Apr 21, 2012)

Tinky said:


> Can I feed live mice to a reptile? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase
> However, these codes of practice are not enforceable by law and are therefore recommendations only.


thats the part i was talking about 
also to the op all this talk of it being illegal comes from people who jump to conclusions without knowing the actual facts


----------



## Fuscus (Apr 21, 2012)

QLD 
- you can collect "skinks of least concern" for snake food
- it is preferable to feed freshly killed prey to captive pythons

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/register/p00061aa.pdf

I need to point out that I rarely feed live prey. Most have a quick ride on the soda stream before meeting the snake


----------



## Kam333 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hhhhmm, illegal no, but an unpleasant, somewhat cruel and most often than not unnecessary. I have heard all sorts of reasons to justify the desire to watch a snake kill and devour live prey, really I think it should be a last resort. Often safer for the snake and more humane (ironic word - humans are the cruelest) for the prey. Probably not a legal question but an ethical one.


----------



## mysnakesau (Apr 21, 2012)

I can't say I've read anywhere that it is illegal but pet shops will tell people that it is. And so they should. I don't like seeing ppl flaunt live feeding.


----------



## Madaz (Apr 21, 2012)

Obversely we all are a ware that hunting/ eating live pray is a natural instinct. So really feeding live pray to ur snake isn't a big deal. But being human gives us the ability to humanly do the right thing by the rat and also protecting our snakes from any potential harm.i don't think it's hard to justify feeding live pray to ur snake what can't be justified is allowing the pray to be striked at a number of times. To avoid that wait 5 or so days after a poo has passed before attempting a live feed. We shouldn't condemn or criticize people for live feeds for all we know it may be a instinct that they need to fore full to be content with the contained environment they are kept in.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?c1fsux


----------



## CaptainRatbag (Apr 21, 2012)

It is not illegal..... but it is risky for your snake.
Every govt reg I have read says it is 'last resort' only.... and it is frowned on by most (myself included) herps I know.
In the wild, a snake knows nothing but live prey (generally) so thier skills at striking and coiling very quickly & efficiently so as to reduce the risk of the lunch injuring the snake. Everyone knows a cornered animal (ie rat) will go ballistic if given the chance.... and rats teeth are exceptional weapons. If someone is silly enough to put a live young adult or over rat in with thier snake.... they are asking for the snake to be injured, imo.
1/ the snake and rat can see each other.... so no element of suprise, rat will prepare to fight.
2/ Our snakes arent always (mine especially) good shots, so would likely grab the rodent so as it can fight (might not realise the rat will defend itself) and thus risk injury to snake
3/ Feeding live pinkies or fuzzies although wont effectively fight the snake, I personally think is just cruel and unneccessary, as 'home made snakes' (mine anyway) seem to constrict out of instinct/habbit... they dont seem to be actually constricting... just 'going thru the motions' so they would effectively really be eating the pinkie/fuzzy alive :shock:
I personally would only ever feed live if there was NO other option available. People who do it for 'entertainment' are just sick, imo.


----------



## disintegratus (Apr 21, 2012)

Not that I advocate live feeding AT ALL, but realistically, who's going to do anything about it? Do you really think the cops are going to turn out in force because you essentially killed a rodent? And does anyone here actually think the RSPCA would bother wasting their precious profits (oops, I mean "resources") over something that's not a fuzzy kitten in a drainpipe, or a pomeranian trapped in an impossibly cute situation?

To answer your question though, I think as it stands (at least in victoria) it is theoretically illegal to feed live unless the snake is actually going to starve to death.


----------



## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 21, 2012)

I don't know of anywhere that live feeding is illegal but it is seriously frowned upon due to the ethics involved.
I am not an advocate of live feeding but it is an option for a snake who steadfastly refuses to eat but should not be undertaken haphazardly and never leave the animals alone together.

I think back but a few weeks ago to a request on this site for help for a snake that had been attacked quite severely by a rat that had been left alone in the tank. Don't be in any doubt, a rat has the capacity to kill a snake.


----------



## Becceles (Apr 21, 2012)

Live feeding is not illegal. Frowned upon yes, illegal no. As far as I know though, it is illegal to feed native and protected animals. Asian house geckos and a limited number of garden skinks are allowed, and fish too. Oh, and "flowerpot snakes" - not native.


----------



## mysnakesau (Apr 21, 2012)

Madaz said:


> ........ To avoid that wait 5 or so days after a poo has passed before attempting a live feed. ......]



What's that got to do with live feeding?


----------



## kukri-dragon (Apr 21, 2012)

So i've read, it's ileagle in australia to feed live rats and mice to your reptiles. But thats what i've only read, it was in a Pet Barn catalogue...


----------



## CaptainRatbag (Apr 21, 2012)

Where does all this 'wait til they poop before feeding'?? I dont wait to poop before I eat? My cat doesnt? My snakes dont?  Why should people think thier snakes need to poop before they eat? Is there any doccumentation in support of this?


----------



## dragonboy69 (Apr 21, 2012)

Madaz said:


> . To avoid that wait 5 or so days after a poo has passed before attempting a live feed. We shouldn't condemn or criticize people for live feeds for all we know it may be a instinct that they need to fore full to be content with the contained environment they are kept in.


 Maybe what Madaz is saying by waiting for the snake to poop. Madaz is saying that it might be hungry then so try live feeding at that stage to try minimize injury to the snake. Because if the snake is full and only strikes but not constrict. Then there for the prey might fight back and cause injury to the snake. I'm thinking that's what he ment. Don't shoot the messenger I'm just interpreting what I think Madaz wrote.


----------



## CaptainRatbag (Apr 22, 2012)

BANG! :lol: oh.... what was the message? hehehehehe


----------



## mysnakesau (Apr 22, 2012)

So you're saying snakes need to poop to feel hungry again? That's crap.


----------



## Ramsayi (Apr 22, 2012)

Madaz said:


> Obversely we all are a ware that hunting/ eating live pray is a natural instinct. So really feeding live pray to ur snake isn't a big deal. But being human gives us the ability to humanly do the right thing by the rat and also protecting our snakes from any potential harm.i don't think it's hard to justify feeding live pray to ur snake what can't be justified is allowing the pray to be striked at a number of times. To avoid that wait 5 or so days after a poo has passed before attempting a live feed. We shouldn't condemn or criticize people for live feeds for all we know it may be a instinct that they need to fore full to be content with the contained environment they are kept in.
> 
> 
> ---
> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?c1fsux



We are all aware that a snake in the wild vs a snake in an enclosure are two different things.In a cage predator and prey have no means of retreat/escape.It's a recipe for disaster not to mention a very cruel and unnecessary practice.


----------



## JAS101 (Apr 22, 2012)

kukri-dragon said:


> So i've read, it's ileagle in australia to feed live rats and mice to your reptiles. But thats what i've only read, it was in a Pet Barn catalogue...


go back and read page one again , click on the green links . its not recomeneded to live feed - illegal [ grey area] able to enforce - nope . there would be pepole on here who live feed , if they dont say anying how would u know


----------



## winny111 (Apr 22, 2012)

In WA under condition 13 of our licence it say

NO LIVE VERTEBRATE ANIMALS ARE TO BE USED AS FOOD FOR PET HERPETOFAUNA HELD UNDER THIS LICENCE.


----------



## Madaz (Apr 27, 2012)

Cap rat bag. Ur 1 of many lackin common sense. Mayb u haven't read that in a book or net so it's wrong right? So crapping, means it's finished digesting it's meal (google it)and its ready for more. Wouldn't it?? meanin if,......(each to there own) feeding that snake live prey the chances of a 1 hit strike are greatly increased. I see a lot of smart ideas and common sense being bagged on this site so I assume that's from ppl who tend to think they know more than they do,have really no clue at all or are teens and we know they know all. My advice is 2 nd hand from a mate who knows and supplied places like snake ranch with a lot of there original breeding stocks some 10yrs 15yrs ago. Most ur w.a breeds he supplied..most of these now big breeders started off with permitted wild caught snakes who were put in cages right!? So to feed the snakes what did they do?? Let them out to feed??? They waited til they shat then they knew they were ready.. I'm 35yrs of age and was given a 5ft carpet at the age of 6 1/2.. i have had taipans,r.b.blacks, and browns and at least 40odd pythons since that 1st snake.well before most of you would of been thought of and way before breeding and keeping herps was popular. I'm not one to pretend or post useless information or bag ppls views or ways but I em quite happy to bite back at those who have very narrow minds. Thank u to those who understand where I was coming from. I will add i feed my snakes frozen food but if I needed to I would feed live food to help preserve the life of any herp.

Ramsayi. My mate supplies most these big breeders eg. Snake ranches w.a black headeds, woma's with wild caught snakes on permit. So they went into cages right? Do u think they ate dead mice/ rats straight away? Or did they let the snake out in the yard to feed? I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder over seas compared to how it's done here. Sometimes herp breeders may have to feed live food to herps. Following what I suggested takes away the cruel factor and allows the snake to follow it's natural instinct therefore preserving that reptiles life. Or would u prefer the snake to starve?


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?bh4afj

And still workin out how to use this site on my phone


----------



## -Peter (Apr 27, 2012)

Snake ranch wasn't round 10 to 15 years ago.


----------



## turtle (Apr 27, 2012)

Check this link out!
Enjoy!

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.


----------



## Wrightpython (Apr 27, 2012)

some people live feed by choice some live feed by need. I personally have a pickie eater and will only take live prey even after 15 years in captivity. I also have pythons and vens that take fresh kill and frozen thawed so i use that option. All of my hatchies are offered frozen thawed first three feed attempts then live pinkies if they havent taken any then weaned onto frozen thawed at earliest stage possible. up until recently i only ever live fed feeling it was better for snake to hunt but i have recently been proven wrong and now frozen thaw or fresh kill from now on


----------



## Sniperking (Apr 27, 2012)

my ex girl friends sister had a children's python and it would not eat dead pray so the only way to get it to feed was feeding it live mice but as the other post say its the individual snake that depends


----------



## Echiopsis (Apr 27, 2012)

Madaz said:


> Cap rat bag. Ur 1 of many lackin common sense. Mayb u haven't read that in a book or net so it's wrong right? So crapping, means it's finished digesting it's meal (google it)and its ready for more. Wouldn't it?? meanin if,......(each to there own) feeding that snake live prey the chances of a 1 hit strike are greatly increased. I see a lot of smart ideas and common sense being bagged on this site so I assume that's from ppl who tend to think they know more than they do,have really no clue at all or are teens and we know they know all. My advice is 2 nd hand from a mate who knows and supplied places like snake ranch with a lot of there original breeding stocks some 10yrs 15yrs ago. Most ur w.a breeds he supplied..most of these now big breeders started off with permitted wild caught snakes who were put in cages right!? So to feed the snakes what did they do?? Let them out to feed??? They waited til they shat then they knew they were ready.. I'm 35yrs of age and was given a 5ft carpet at the age of 6 1/2.. i have had taipans,r.b.blacks, and browns and at least 40odd pythons since that 1st snake.well before most of you would of been thought of and way before breeding and keeping herps was popular. I'm not one to pretend or post useless information or bag ppls views or ways but I em quite happy to bite back at those who have very narrow minds. Thank u to those who understand where I was coming from. I will add i feed my snakes frozen food but if I needed to I would feed live food to help preserve the life of any herp.
> 
> Ramsayi. My mate supplies most these big breeders eg. Snake ranches w.a black headeds, woma's with wild caught snakes on permit. So they went into cages right? Do u think they ate dead mice/ rats straight away? Or did they let the snake out in the yard to feed? I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder over seas compared to how it's done here. Sometimes herp breeders may have to feed live food to herps. Following what I suggested takes away the cruel factor and allows the snake to follow it's natural instinct therefore preserving that reptiles life. Or would u prefer the snake to starve?



Your dribbling rubbish in your first post and this one. Does a snake having a crap improve its aim? :lol: I dont care what your mate has done, that doesnt change the fact your jumping to obscure conclusions. In a wild situation prey rarely see whats coming, in a captive environment the prey item is often aware and ready for the attack (increasing the chance of damaging bites to your snake).
Anyone with half a clue can get wild caught snakes onto dead prey, including WA blackheads (ive done it multiple times).

Ive fed live pinks on occasion to hatchling Antaresia i was struggling with but only as a last resort. Its often only necessary once for the snake to get the taste then they readily accept dead food. I dont have a huge issue with it being done when necessary but felt the need to point out the many massive holes in your logic :lol:

Have a nice day.


----------



## Rooboy15 (Apr 27, 2012)

I think that would imply a more interested feed and a faster dispatch of poor mouse. Never ever feed a live rat to a snake, to many grizzly photo's on that one to risk that.


----------



## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 27, 2012)

winny111 said:


> In WA under condition 13 of our licence it say
> 
> NO LIVE VERTEBRATE ANIMALS ARE TO BE USED AS FOOD FOR PET HERPETOFAUNA HELD UNDER THIS LICENCE.



This is a condition of your licence not an issue of legallity


----------



## PigFeet (Apr 27, 2012)

another stupid thread, IMO


----------



## winny111 (Apr 28, 2012)

As a condition of our licence if we were to be caught feeding live vertibrate animals to our pets we could have our licence cancelled and our pets taken. We can also be charged with breaking conditions of our licence in a court of law. So my guess is that a condition of our licence is a legal requirement. We have some bad regs in WA, such as we must allow a DEC officer to inspect our home at any time without notice. Pets are not to be kept in bathrooms or bedrooms. These are just a few stupid regs and failure to comply meens possible loss of licence and pets


----------



## Kam333 (Apr 28, 2012)

winny111 said:


> As a condition of our licence if we were to be caught feeding live vertibrate animals to our pets we could have our licence cancelled and our pets taken. We can also be charged with breaking conditions of our licence in a court of law. So my guess is that a condition of our licence is a legal requirement. We have some bad regs in WA, such as we must allow a DEC officer to inspect our home at any time without notice. Pets are not to be kept in bathrooms or bedrooms. These are just a few stupid regs and failure to comply meens possible loss of licence and pets



I remember 15 years back when if you were to move or disturb any reptile that includes moving it of the road you could be fined up to $4000 per item. Talk about harsh!


----------



## winny111 (Apr 28, 2012)

Kam333 said:


> I remember 15 years back when if you were to move or disturb any reptile that includes moving it of the road you could be fined up to $4000 per item. Talk about harsh!


I believe this is still the in WA if you do not have a Reg 17


----------



## Colin (Apr 30, 2012)

Madaz said:


> My advice is 2 nd hand from a mate who knows and supplied places like snake ranch with a lot of there original breeding stocks some 10yrs 15yrs ago. Most ur w.a breeds he supplied..



Madaz - do you mind me asking who is your collector mate that supplied snake ranch with their breeding stock 15 years ago? 



Madaz said:


> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?bh4afj
> 
> And still workin out how to use this site on my phone



thats a pretty cool link with your full address listed. 
If you would like it removed please flag your post with the triangle icon undeneath post and ask a moderator to remove it


----------



## -Peter (Apr 30, 2012)

I was doing an overnight strip out at Erina Fair 12 years ago on the 17/18 July. On my way home I saw a glow coming from the ridge at Somersby. That was ARP being destroyed by fire. The rebuild saw them obtaining numerous animals from many sources.

Ok Colin, that should be stripout...


----------



## RandomBeardies28 (Apr 30, 2012)

I hate to say it, but many people do feed pinkies to herps, even bearded dragons! This is just sick but, I mean, weather you pre kill it, or live feed it, it dies anyway. Reptiles get enrichment from chasing prey, no that this should be mandatory.I give my snakes 1 mouse per year. Why dont we carry on with "saving the crickets"? Because they arent fuzzy or cute. we might as well get over it, no single group of people will stop the market. Its just something we have to live with.


----------



## Colin (Apr 30, 2012)

-Peter said:


> *I was doing an overnight strip* out at Erina Fair 12 years ago on the 17/18 July. On my way home I saw a glow coming from the ridge at Somersby. That was ARP being destroyed by fire. The rebuild saw them obtaining numerous animals from many sources.



yes that was a sad day Peter. you were doing an overnight strip at Erina? :lol:
Im sure they did source reptiles from many sources for snake ranch but not 15 years ago.



RandomBeardies28 said:


> I hate to say it, but many people do feed pinkies to herps, even bearded dragons! This is just sick but, I mean, weather you pre kill it, or live feed it, it dies anyway. Reptiles get enrichment from chasing prey, no that this should be mandatory.I give my snakes 1 mouse per year. Why dont we carry on with "saving the crickets"? Because they arent fuzzy or cute. we might as well get over it, no single group of people will stop the market. Its just something we have to live with.



there is an ethical way to euthanise rodents so whether they are pre killed or live actually does matter quite a bit.. Live adult or semi adult rodents can do serious damage to reptiles if left unattended in a tub or enclosure. 

what enrichment to reptiles get from chasing prey? most snakes and pythons dont "chase prey" and use their striking ability to capture food items from coiling the food item or injecting venom.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Apr 30, 2012)

Someone mentioned that live feeding occurs in nature. That is true but both predator and prey can escape from one another. In the confines of a cage this is not the case. Many years ago I saw a diamond python mauled by a live rat that had been left in there as dinner. I am not sure whether the rat escaped the initial strike or was grabbed by the wrong end and not subdued sufficiently before it could do some serious damage, resulting in the snake releasing it. Either or, the snake was in a bad way and the rat was huddled in the opposite corner of the cage. 

In the wild, there is often a struggle involved in carnivores feeding, which not uncommonly can result in injury and sometimes even death of the predator rather than the prey. I think it is important to recognise that what we do with our animals in captivity is not natural. There is no validity in any argument that says “but it is only natural”. What is valid is to do that which is best for the well being of the captive animal, without interfering with nature at the same time. Not being natural, we also have responsibility for any animals under our control. A concluding example – I did not read it but there was an article about someone who had shown a video of themselves swallowing a live gold fish and they were to be prosecuted as a result. 

Blue


----------



## Madaz (May 1, 2012)

Places LIKE snake ranch ready slower. 


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?klbteo

Again I Did say places LIKE snake ranch 10 to 15yrs ago. Next time I see him I'll get month, yrs how many snakes.Lol.. Hold on.. I'll remember every word he's says next time. 


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0yrhfv


----------



## kukri-dragon (Sep 12, 2012)

I honestly don't care if some one feeds live food or not, i was just stating what ive read...


----------



## Colin (Sep 13, 2012)

On the subject of live feeding, I think it has a small place in the hobby to get a hatchling to feed when all else fails, but should be used as a last resort and only for unfeeding young reptiles. All effort should be made to wean them onto freshly killed or thawed food if it's ever necessary to use a live feed to assist a hatchie when all else has failed. There's no excuse feeding yearlings or adults live feeds and the "they won't feed on anything else" is BS and a lack of understanding of husbandry techniques and lack of effort. If a hatcie takes a live pinky (when all else was tried and failed) they will usually always take a second thawed pinky immediately after it. One or two feeds like this and they are feeding on thawed or fresh killed (humanely) and there's no further need for a live feed. 

Feeding captive adult reptiles live rodents is dangerous to the reptile and unecessarily cruel to the food item. And in my opinion done by sadistic people who get a "thrill" from this and like to show off to their "mates" etc. these people have little respect for life, their reptiles and no skills with acceptable husbandry methods. Unfortunately this happens far too often and education is the only answer. Freshly killed rodents offered in the correct way will almost always be taken first attempt by a snake that's supposed to only take "live" If they're fed freshly killed thats body warm and wiggled when offered with tongs there's not much difference for the snake that's supposed to only "take live" which is a load of crap in my opinion.


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Sep 13, 2012)

Colin said:


> Madaz - do you mind me asking who is your collector mate that supplied snake ranch with their breeding stock 15 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Snake Ranch was in receipt of a number of W/C WA reptiles AFTER the introduction of legal collecting in WA in March 2003, and JW spent time in WA with licensed collectors selecting particular animals as potential breeding stock and importing them into NSW. It wasn't 10-15 years ago. I was a dealer in WA at the time.

Jamie


----------



## Colin (Sep 13, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Snake Ranch was in receipt of a number of W/C WA reptiles AFTER the introduction of legal collecting in WA in March 2003, and JW spent time in WA with licensed collectors selecting particular animals as potential breeding stock and importing them into NSW. It wasn't 10-15 years ago. I was a dealer in WA at the time.
> 
> Jamie



Agreed Jamie, from memory (and mine's bad) I seem to remember around 2004/5 Jim Bloomfield (legal WA collector at the time) was one of the guy's that supplied John Weigel with quite a few of the original WC stimsons & other pythons that were the original breeding stock for Snake Ranch.


----------



## moosenoose (Sep 13, 2012)

Madaz said:


> I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder



Who said I like to have a cow killed for my quarter pounder? I like em alive


----------



## wokka (Sep 13, 2012)

Just because live feeding isn't written into legislation doesn't mean it is legal. I am quite sure a case could be mounted based on cruelty if necessary. That sort of action would depend upon intent and so as long as live feeding is a last resort it is probably legally safe.As for those who engauge in the blood "sport" of live feeding I am sure they cross both the legal and ethical line and deserve to be persued!


----------



## Snotty (Sep 13, 2012)

I completely agree with there being no real reason for live feeding except in rare cases and as mentioned it is dangerous for the reptile and causes suffering for the feeder animal that is easily avoided. The problem I do have with these topics though is a logical one. For some reason there is shock and horror at the thought of feeding a live animal to another, but at the same time it is perfectly legal to use Ratsack or similar - even a spade to get rid of "vermin". For many commercial premises not doing so is actually illegal. The same issue comes up with the Fish people where the idea of using feeder fish is somehow nasty but anyone can go down the water catch a fish and well choose a hundred ways to kill it. 

Personally I think Mickey Mouse and Walt Disney have a lot to answer for as there are a lot of weird ideas these days about the natural world. Rodents do not talk, watch tv from a Sardine can bed and fly on Pelicans. Pythons do not chat down at lost boys in the jungle from the tree tops, and I have never seen Crows sitting on a phone pole smoking cigars discussing politics.


----------



## slim6y (Sep 13, 2012)

I've skim read the articles and the posts here - and I didn't see this posted:

http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/register/p00061aa.pdf - Go straight to page 37:

The harshest and most damning comment for live feeding is:

"Under no circumstances must the feeding of live vertebrate animals be conducted as part of a public exhibition."

It does not say anywhere in this code of practice that it is illegal to feed live. In fact, it even states:

"Wild pythons usually kill their prey; however, it is preferable to feed freshly killed prey to captive pythons, as live prey has the capacity to injure, mutilate or even kill captive snakes."

"Some captive snakes need to be fed lizards or offered live prey at first but occasionally individuals will simply refuse to accept food and may require assisted feeding for a period."

So - in some cases the code actually signals that live feeding is ok. 

It is also noted, if the case was to make it 'illegal' to offer live prey - then offering feeder fish etc would also be unacceptable (considering many feeder fish are vertebrates).

So - my answer - NO - it is not illegal to feed live but it is considered to be dangerous and not recommended. 

I believe you can be charged if you make it a public display (the live feeding act).


----------



## -Peter (Sep 13, 2012)

Colin said:


> yes that was a sad day Peter. you were doing an overnight strip at Erina? :lol:
> Im sure they did source reptiles from many sources for snake ranch but not 15 years ago.



I think that was the point of my observation Colin. I cant recall because this is a stale thread and my brain has moved on...


----------



## Cypher69 (Sep 13, 2012)

A long time ago I did a live feeding once. As a novice, I was given the advice that it was "healthy" for the snake to at least practice its hunting skills even in captivity. 
The further advice I was given was to place the live rat (in a container) in the freezer for several hours to slow it's metabolism down...less chance of it attacking the python.

On hindsight...the size of the enclosure was a hindrance to live feeding. The python did have a clean strike on the rat however it nearly smashed the glass panel in the process.
I would tentatively suggest (based on my experience) that live feedings ONLY be done if you had an exceptionally large enclosure to provide enough room for the snake to stalk its prey safely & properly.


----------



## apprenticegnome (Sep 13, 2012)

The only references ive managed to find that live feeding is illegal seem to come from people with personal views and no reference material to back up the claim. I hate it when people lie about something to justify their beliefs, they should say that they don't think it is ethical to live feed and state why rather than misrepresent the facts. I am against live feeding my snakes for the reasons others have stated in this thread but I understand others may need to do so with thiers. Thumbs up to those who feed frozen, respect for those who need to live feed.


----------



## Colin (Sep 13, 2012)

-Peter said:


> I think that was the point of my observation Colin. I cant recall because this is a stale thread and my brain has moved on...



I think I recall you saying it was an "office fit out strip" Peter rather than a hen's night wearing a g-string


----------



## solar 17 (Sep 13, 2012)

l "TOTALLY" agree with Colin post no.43 of this thread ....do we really have to look up the laws governing this subject, as it is its been covered numerous times and here we have another person trying to create a head-line and "another" case where the search bar hasn't been used or another claim "l couldn't find anything" on it .......whats happened to our natural instincts as animal carers you know its morally wrong and if you say there is no option you are either a blood-hound redneck or a keeper long-short on experience IMO and yes l feed fresh killed but imo the suffering is down to a nano-second.........solar 17 (baden)


----------



## PythonLegs (Sep 13, 2012)

solar 17 said:


> l "TOTALLY" agree with Colin post no.43 of this thread ....do we really have to look up the laws governing this subject, as it is its been covered numerous times and here we have another person trying to create a head-line and "another" case where the search bar hasn't been used or another claim "l couldn't find anything" on it .......whats happened to our natural instincts as animal carers you know its morally wrong and if you say there is no option you are either a blood-hound redneck or a keeper long-short on experience IMO and yes l feed fresh killed but imo the suffering is down to a nano-second.........solar 17 (baden)




Mate, I wish there was a way I could 'like' something more than once. This needs a SuperLike.


----------



## GellyAmbert (Sep 13, 2012)

Madaz said:


> Cap rat bag. Ur 1 of many lackin common sense. Mayb u haven't read that in a book or net so it's wrong right? So crapping, means it's finished digesting it's meal (google it)and its ready for more. Wouldn't it?? meanin if,......(each to there own) feeding that snake live prey the chances of a 1 hit strike are greatly increased. I see a lot of smart ideas and common sense being bagged on this site so I assume that's from ppl who tend to think they know more than they do,have really no clue at all or are teens and we know they know all. My advice is 2 nd hand from a mate who knows and supplied places like snake ranch with a lot of there original breeding stocks some 10yrs 15yrs ago. Most ur w.a breeds he supplied..most of these now big breeders started off with permitted wild caught snakes who were put in cages right!? So to feed the snakes what did they do?? Let them out to feed??? They waited til they shat then they knew they were ready.. I'm 35yrs of age and was given a 5ft carpet at the age of 6 1/2.. i have had taipans,r.b.blacks, and browns and at least 40odd pythons since that 1st snake.well before most of you would of been thought of and way before breeding and keeping herps was popular. I'm not one to pretend or post useless information or bag ppls views or ways but I em quite happy to bite back at those who have very narrow minds. Thank u to those who understand where I was coming from. I will add i feed my snakes frozen food but if I needed to I would feed live food to help preserve the life of any herp.
> 
> Ramsayi. My mate supplies most these big breeders eg. Snake ranches w.a black headeds, woma's with wild caught snakes on permit. So they went into cages right? Do u think they ate dead mice/ rats straight away? Or did they let the snake out in the yard to feed? I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder over seas compared to how it's done here. Sometimes herp breeders may have to feed live food to herps. Following what I suggested takes away the cruel factor and allows the snake to follow it's natural instinct therefore preserving that reptiles life. Or would u prefer the snake to starve?
> 
> ...



I think its important to point out that maccas get there beef from AMH Abattoirs in QLD... not over seas...


----------



## Sleazy.P.Martini (Sep 13, 2012)

apprenticegnome said:


> The only references ive managed to find that live feeding is illegal seem to come from people with personal views and no reference material to back up the claim. I hate it when people lie about something to justify their beliefs, they should say that they don't think it is ethical to live feed and state why rather than misrepresent the facts. I am against live feeding my snakes for the reasons others have stated in this thread but I understand others may need to do so with thiers. Thumbs up to those who feed frozen, respect for those who need to live feed.





GellyAmbert said:


> I think its important to point out that maccas get there beef from AMH Abattoirs in QLD... not over seas...



I think he was comparing our beef to overseas beef, not saying our beef cones from overseas


----------



## -Peter (Sep 13, 2012)

Colin said:


> I think I recall you saying it was an "office fit out strip" Peter rather than a hen's night wearing a g-string



Im open minded.


----------

