# Fishing is cruel ??



## SlothHead (Sep 29, 2008)

*PLEASE READ THE FULL QUESTIONS BELOW FOR THE POLL ABOVE*

Thought i would see the general consensus of people on a site who are possibly passionate about all forms of animal. The feedback on this same thread on forums such as a fishing forum or animal rights forum are quite predictable, so maybe there is a more balanced mix of people here. 

Where this has come from is that a few colleagues of mine have all independently heard a “rumour” that a number of animal rights groups are about to target the fishing industry in a big way to have all forms of fishing banned d as it is cruel to animals. From what I have heard, ironically it is the sports fishing industry they are supposed to be going after first. Now it is only aimed at the individual level, i.e. the father and son down on the rocks with bait in hand or lure, catching a couple on a Saturday afternoon. 

So the poll is straight forward but to extrapolate on what the questions are: 

*“All fishing should be banned as it is cruel to the fish for the pure enjoyment of the person. If people want to eat fish, they can eat commercially caught or commercially farmed fish” *This is pretty straight forward and captures all individual level fishing. 

*“Sport fishing should be banned as the trauma and stress caused to the fish for the sake of catching it and releasing it is cruel.” *Obviously this is aimed at the sport fishing side of things where fish are caught and then released just for the sake of fun. From what we have heard on this, the analogy that appears to be being used is would you hook a dog in the mouth and wind it in from down the street. This by its nature therefore infers that catching fish for food is ok and relies on the premise that the cost of catching and releasing is far greater than the benefit of just catching for food purposes. At first glance it doesn’t make sense, the reason for sport is to maintain fish stocks, however, this idea is starting not to apply at all. I grew up fishing in Forster on the Mid-North Coast, but now when I look into the still legal areas to fish these are diminishing quite fast. Many areas are becoming sanctuaries, and are completely illegal to fish in. Thus with more non-fishing areas, it appears to possibly be the start of a long term strategy to outcast the sport fishing side of things. 

*“Only fishing for pest species should be allowed” *Though we cant specifically inhibit what species grabs onto the end, pest species should be the only fish to be targeted as removing them from the natural environment is a good thing. This goes along the lines of not many people would willingly take a gun and go and shoot a lion or elephant for the sake of it, “for sport” however, shooting a wild pig/ buffalo/ or overpopulation of kangaroos falls within reasonable control methods to limit damage to the environment.

Lastly 
*“There is nothing wrong with fishing”*

So, without getting into arguments, it would be interesting to get a balanced view on what others think and why, and as mentioned, my interest on it is due to growing up on the coast fishing 4-5 times a week.


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## bundy_zigg (Sep 29, 2008)

I grew up fishing with my dad(he is still a keen fisherman) as a kid I was the little girl in the cab of the boat holding the fish telling it that I would not let them kill it and when they were not watching I would put it back in the sea haha. Fish are a food source - I eat it and love it but cant catch it. Sport fishing on the other hand is just cruel, also when they catch sharks and chop of fins then drop it back in the water SO CRUEL, So I guess what I am trying to say is that if it is for food then fair enough but catch and release is not on - also killing things you cant eat(giant sharks, and some other large game fish).


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## miley_take (Sep 29, 2008)

I love fishing, and I belong to a recreational fishing club. We go out, we catch, tag and then relase fish. Everything's been researched and everything is done with care and the fish's health as number one. We do demonstrations of proper catching and releasing methods and promoting fish freindly tackle. Tagging is used to study growth rates of the fish, and environmental impact, breeding and how far the fish journeys. Fishing can be done with minimum stress to the fish, it's just the people who don't have a regard for the fish and/or know nothing of how to do it


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

This is a very deep and complex question. You could just about right a phd on this topic. 

I am fisherman, i do it a minimum of once a week and i do actually very often ask myself these questions. As far as sport fishing causing unnecessary harm and stress on a fish i think it absolutely does. But on the same token i think we also need to look at the survival rates of those fish caught and then released. For some species (such as barramundi) survival rates are very good but for others (like jewfish) the rates are very poor. So in this case i think sport fishing for barra is good but sport fishing for jewfish is bad and i suppose basically i don't care if the fish is hurt or stressed so long as it is going to survive. 

I also think that it is amateur fishers who are the main driving force behind conservation and the protection of fish stocks and aquatic ecosystems. I have yet to meet a true fisherman who doesn't care about the future of our fishing grounds. 

I think fishing is great as long as it is done responsibly .


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## bundybear (Sep 29, 2008)

this is a joke right???:shock:
there is nothing wrong with fishn!!
so gettn hooked in the mouth and then released is worse then being gaught in a trawl net and dragged along the sea bed 100m down for the next hour is OK 'cause it's for food????
go figure!
wake up you bloody wowsers!:evil:
would love to see one of these twits come down and try and tell me I can't go fishn 'cause it's cruel.:evil:
and what about the sport fishing and charter business' in the industry?, what they just go find other jobs do they?
what happens to the tackle shops?
are these wowsers gunna start taking on these suddenly unemployed people?
if these tree huggn animal lovn wowsers have their way, we are all gunna be eatn tofu at xmas instead of the turkey! mmmmmsounds great!
the catch and release push over the last decade or so has literally saved alot of fishing habitats from over fishing.


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## mattmc (Sep 29, 2008)

He who thinks fishing is cruel has killed and animal in there past. Idiots! Fishing is GREAT fun. Farmed fish tastes like crud! commercial fish is a week old. There is only 1 way to eat fish, and that is your own catch!


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## mattmc (Sep 29, 2008)

and what you call sport fishing...widely known with marlin and the rest....alot of that is done under scientific research....remember....humans rule =)


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## caustichumor (Sep 29, 2008)

I have been a recreational fisherman all my life, I also spent a good chunk of my life working on commercial reef fishing boats. There is nothing wrong with catching a couple of fish for dinner, Targeting pest species is a good way for kids to have fun and help the environment. As for sport fishing I see nothing wrong with it when done responsibly, Most catch and release fisherman have great compassion for their quarry and go to great lenghts to ensure they swim away in good shape. (I am not a fan of trophy fishing however, killing the animal for the sake of weighing it with a photo)


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## SlothHead (Sep 29, 2008)

bundybear said:


> this is a joke right???:shock:
> the catch and release push over the last decade or so has literally saved alot of fishing habitats from over fishing.



Unfortunately not, i have spoken to a number of people about it, and have been trying for a while to get some of the future plans from RSPCA. It has only been rumoured, but the strategic thinking behind it really does make sense. 

Animal rights groups what fishing stopped as it is cruel. So rather than stop fishing directly they make sactuaries every where to prohibit fishing, and from what i have seen this is really starting to happen in a big way. The amount of non-fishing reserves now are enormous and the plans for the future are taking large chunks again. 

i am all for this sort of thing, marine parks are great. However, it appears to be a spring board to then go and take out the sport fishing "catch & Release" idea. THe simple arguement becomes, if we have marine parks and we have enough of them, then sport fishing isnt allowed, and if we cant monitor people from taking too much then we will just push for a complete ban. 

The strategic logic behind it makes perfect sense. 

I wont go and say that it is the RSPCA that are going to push for it, but i wouldnt be surprised to see the same animal rights activists that say that we shouldnt have pets to push hard for it.


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

I dont think anything should be banned, but i do think that the cruelty of sport fishing could be brought to the attention of those that do it and leave them to decide. I would see it no differant to someone catching snakes on fishing hooks as a game. I see no reason to have more empathy for a snake than a fish. Targeted fishing methods such as spearfishing, bowfishing and cast netting are more desirable methods of non commercial fishing IMO.

The other issue is live bait, its obviously cruel to use live bait, but who cares about a worm? i dont, but i dont use live fish. Who is anyone to say where the line should be drawn? IMO its a personal decision more than a legal issue.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Sep 29, 2008)

ban fishing? yeah right good luck with that

some people are just whingers,spend there whole life trying to ban things
maybe they should ban flyspray cause its cruel to flies,
they are really lacking something in there lives


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

I will also point out without a special exemption fishing would be illegal in Qld and probably most other states. Allowing fishing is completely inconsistant with cruelty laws.

Fishing ang hunting is great and it is under threat from ___ trying to impose their BS on to others. Duck hunting is already banned in Qld(even exotic species).


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

Even if fishing does become banned it will not have support from the public or the government and you will end up with a situation like we have in darwin as far as fishing permits are concerned. It maybe illegal to not have one but because it is not supported by the law makers it is not enforced.


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## shane14 (Sep 29, 2008)

I dont see how its Cruel they have put on Earth for a reason, But the bloody asians have taking to Whaling and Shark hunting both of these are cruel because of the un-human way of removing fins and just dumping the rest in the ocean. They should use every bit of the fish! Whaling for "research" is a whole load of bull sh** because how would they like to be cut up and disected? 

Thanks Shane (Whalers SUCK!!!)


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## miley_take (Sep 29, 2008)

I can sort of see where they're coming from, but these animal rights groups are taking it a bit too far aren't they? It's starting to be like the politically correct capiagns OS

eg. Baa Baa Black Sheep is now Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep
Cookie Monster is now Veggie Monster
etc

It's just people not toeing the ridiculous line but leaping over it


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## -Peter (Sep 29, 2008)

Of course its cruel and only an idiot would argue otherwise. You can justify it all you want and make up stupid arguements about scientific research but its still cruel. 

In the end you have to live with what you do. I love eating fish and I will just have to cope with the horrors of it.

ps none of the poll options suit me.


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## caustichumor (Sep 29, 2008)

Since when does the rspca care about native Animals? I thought they only care about the wellbeing of introduced carnivore species that run feral throughout the country?


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## bundybear (Sep 29, 2008)

SlothHead said:


> Unfortunately not, i have spoken to a number of people about it, and have been trying for a while to get some of the future plans from RSPCA. It has only been rumoured, but the strategic thinking behind it really does make sense.
> 
> Animal rights groups what fishing stopped as it is cruel. So rather than stop fishing directly they make sactuaries every where to prohibit fishing, and from what i have seen this is really starting to happen in a big way. The amount of non-fishing reserves now are enormous and the plans for the future are taking large chunks again.
> 
> ...


 
communism sounds great in theory too!!
be sure to let us know if you find out more..........now that you'e started this!


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

-Peter said:


> Of course its cruel and only an idiot would argue otherwise. You can justify it all you want and make up stupid arguements about scientific research but its still cruel.
> 
> In the end you have to live with what you do. I love eating fish and I will just have to cope with the horrors of it.
> 
> ps none of the poll options suit me.



It is cruel but you gotta wonder how much stress it does actually cause the fish. Lets take a typical scenario a fish hooked in the lip/jaw pulled up from around 10m. At that depth they stand a pretty good chance of not blowing their air bladder and once unhooked will go straight back to the bottom. I have even caught the smae fish multiple times in a day in this scenario.


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Even if fishing does become banned it will not have support from the public or the government and you will end up with a situation like we have in darwin as far as fishing permits are concerned. It maybe illegal to not have one but because it is not supported by the law makers it is not enforced.



Much like ppl killing snakes. I cant see fishing getting banned here, although they did ban catch and release fishing in um some european country recently. Various forms of hunting are probably under far more threat especially duck hunting and hunting with dogs(where not already illegal).

Unfortunately small minds are often the loudest and the govenement listens to idiots from animal liberation groups.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Sep 29, 2008)

Fishermen in general are gentle souls who try to minimise the pain on the fish by removing hooks and dipatching the fish quickly.
The idea that the average fisherman is cruel because he wants to catch a feed a feed or practice the catch and release which has become popular is just crazy.
There are examples of cruelty in the fishing indusry, eg, the bycatch that can be called cruel but the definition of cruelty, if you look it up , does not relate to to average fisherman who loves his sport and tries to help his environment by picking up rubbish and gettiing involved in political decisions that affect the waters he fishes in.
Without the voice of the average fisherman the governments would have a field day with out bays and estuaries.


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## mungus (Sep 29, 2008)

What next.
I will always fish and hunt.
I catch and release 95%.
Mainly bream, flathead, Bass, trout etc [ Even the odd Jewie ]
Even picky with what I release an arrow into as well.
These people who push these issues have to much time on their hands !!
Whats next ??? No Rats or Mice for our Snakes ??
We'll feed them carrots I think......................


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## Vat69 (Sep 29, 2008)

mungus said:


> Whats next ??? No Rats or Mice for our Snakes ??
> We'll feed them carrots I think......................



Yep, those are two completely comparable practices.


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

ssssnakeman said:


> Fishermen in general are gentle souls who try to minimise the pain on the fish by removing hooks and dipatching the fish quickly.
> The idea that the average fisherman is cruel because he wants to catch a feed a feed or practice the catch and release which has become popular is just crazy.
> There are examples of cruelty in the fishing indusry, eg, the bycatch that can be called cruel but the definition of cruelty, if you look it up , does not relate to to average fisherman who loves his sport and tries to help his environment by picking up rubbish and gettiing involved in political decisions that affect the waters he fishes in.
> Without the voice of the average fisherman the governments would have a field day with out bays and estuaries.



Baz would you have a problem with someone catching tiger snakes on fishing hooks as recreation? or using snakes as live bait instead of fish(i have heard they are good bait, not joking)?

If you do have a problem with this, how is it any differant to someone calling someone cruel for doing the same to a fish?


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Sep 29, 2008)

To grow carrots on a commercial scale you would need to clear the land and use chemical.
These could be considered cruel practices as well as animals will be affected by this.


> We'll feed them carrots I think......................


Crazy argument when there is so much *real* cruelty happening all around us..
Fishing, when done properly and respectfully should not be considered a cruel sport/pastime.


> Baz would you have a problem with someone catching tiger snakes on fishing hooks as recreation? or using snakes as live bait instead of fish(i have heard they are good bait, not joking)?


Yes, tiger snakes are protected and there is no need to use them for bait..
I have a problem with real cruelty


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

cris said:


> Baz would you have a problem with someone catching tiger snakes on fishing hooks as recreation? or using snakes as live bait instead of fish(i have heard they are good bait, not joking)?
> 
> If you do have a problem with this, how is it any differant to someone calling someone cruel for doing the same to a fish?



I'm not saying that catching fish with hook and line isn't cruel but that comparison doesn't stand real well. You can catch a snake without using hooks alot easier than you can catch a fish without hooks. In alot of cases hook and line is the easiest, safest and most eco friendly option.


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## Dave (Sep 29, 2008)

bundybear said:


> this is a joke right???:shock:
> there is nothing wrong with fishn!!
> so gettn hooked in the mouth and then released is worse then being gaught in a trawl net and dragged along the sea bed 100m down for the next hour is OK 'cause it's for food????
> go figure!
> ...



I agree with everything you said..


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## jack (Sep 29, 2008)

fishing is cruel....
in the last 48 hours my brother has caught 3 yellow belly, a catfish, and some cod (all got put back).... and i didnt even land the bloody carp i fought to the bank...


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## Cheyne_Jones (Sep 29, 2008)

They are dreaming if they think they will stop people from fishing, I really cant say I know a sport fisherman that would give up their passion just because the government said so...

If the RSPCA is supporting this I would re-think they way i view their organisation big time...


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> I'm not saying that catching fish with hook and line isn't cruel but that comparison doesn't stand real well. You can catch a snake without using hooks alot easier than you can catch a fish without hooks. In alot of cases hook and line is the easiest, safest and most eco friendly option.



That isnt relevant to the point i was trying to make, consider the bait example only if you are only interested in practical examples. The example was in relation to the level of cruelty, whether something is legal or sustainable has nothing to do with cruelty.


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## Vat69 (Sep 29, 2008)

bundybear said:


> this is a joke right???:shock:
> there is nothing wrong with fishn!!
> so gettn hooked in the mouth and then released is worse then being gaught in a trawl net and dragged along the sea bed 100m down for the next hour is OK 'cause it's for food????
> go figure!



Perhaps you'd like to go and read up on the papers have that been written on the sensory receptors of fish and how these relate to the arguments put forward by the bodies which wish to ban fishing. It might clarify some things for you.



bundybear said:


> and what about the sport fishing and charter business' in the industry?, what they just go find other jobs do they?
> what happens to the tackle shops?
> are these wowsers gunna start taking on these suddenly unemployed people?
> if these tree huggn animal lovn wowsers have their way, we are all gunna be eatn tofu at xmas instead of the turkey! mmmmmsounds great!
> the catch and release push over the last decade or so has literally saved alot of fishing habitats from over fishing.



Overreact much? Many many people go through multiple career changes throughout their working lives. Using this logic we should keep all hunting practices regardless of if they are deemed cruel and/or un-necessary purely so that jobs can be created? India has a population problem, perhaps all these prospective un-employed types could set up a culling business.
And yes, down with all you dirty animal lovers,especially those who advocate the humane treatment of livestock! Clearly everyone who enjoys eating bean-curd is a puritanical killjoy.

Finally, l2 English.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Sep 29, 2008)

> That isnt relevant to the point i was trying to make, consider the bait example only if you are only interested in practical examples. The example was in relation to the level of cruelty, whether something is legal or sustainable has nothing to do with cruelty.


ok, the tiger snake to be used is dipatched humanely, painlessly and quickly then used to catch a fish , which is treated with the same consideration, this is not cruelty imo or as defined by all the dictionaries.


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## caustichumor (Sep 29, 2008)

But even tofu munchers contribute to animal death and suffering. combine harvesters and modern agricultural machinery don't fare to well for any small animals living within the crops. They merely get turned into fertilizer.


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

cris said:


> That isnt relevant to the point i was trying to make, consider the bait example only if you are only interested in practical examples. The example was in relation to the level of cruelty, whether something is legal or sustainable has nothing to do with cruelty.



Well in that case, i have caught snakes incidentally on fishing hooks, once removed they seem just fine. If i thought it was sustainable and i was gonna get better results than using mullet i would certainly consider anything for live bait.


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## Vat69 (Sep 29, 2008)

caustichumor said:


> But even tofu munchers contribute to animal death and suffering. combine harvesters and modern agricultural machinery don't fare to well for any small animals living within the crops. They merely get turned into fertilizer.



Perhaps I wasn't being clear :lol:
The original poster I quoted over-generalisationed and included irrelevant hyperboles which I wished to poke a little fun at by doing the same thing. The reasons behind eating tofu are irrelevant


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

ssssnakeman said:


> ok, the tiger snake to be used is dipatched humanely, painlessly and quickly then used to catch a fish , which is treated with the same consideration, this is not cruelty imo or as defined by all the dictionaries.



I was meaning using live snakes as bait as opposed to live fish. What im trying to point out is that many on this site would have much more empathy for snakes than a "normal" person, another person has as much right to have the same empathy for fish.


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## JasonL (Sep 29, 2008)

Most aspects of life is cruel in some respects....
First off; you need to understand that different animals have different levels of pain, some animals live with things that look painfull to us on a daily basis..
I once hooked the same fish on two lines at once, I have also been busted off by a fish only to catch the same fish two casts later (with my other hook firmly in it's jaw and both live baits hanging out it gob). Large fish are used to getting a mouthful of spikes every time they eat smaller ones.
I am against "trophy fishing" esp for sharks, catch and release fishing does not worry me at all, but killing something un-edible for a weight is just wrong, I am also against catch and kill comp fishing, even if they are edible species
As far as trying to stop rec fishing, whether it sport of not, it's just not going to happen, the amount of money coming out of the hobby is massive, and the sport is enjoyed by a high percentage of the community at some level.


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## anguskennedy (Sep 29, 2008)

> Finally, l2 English.



Haha well put Vat69

Of course fishing is cruel, there are multiple papers demonstrating the complex sensory systems of fish, they feel pain just like any other living creature. Just because they do not have the same range of movement available to demonstrate their pain does not mean they are not feeling it.

As someone else said, I dont think any of the survey options suit me. Banning fishing is an impossible task. I think that technology to assist with the humane euthanasia of fish that are caught should be a focus of time and money from interested animal welfare groups. Bashing / suffocation to kill fish is NOT humane.

So perhaps we should be working towards educating fishermen and providing them with simple systems to help them treat the animals they are catching for food in a more ethical manner.

Surely the fish deserve a little respect, having given up their lives just for you to have a meal.

Having said all that, I am a pretty keen fisherman, I only do catch and release (however I dont see a problem with eating them as long as they are abundant), but each time I go out i find myself having more trouble justifying the pain im causing the fish just for the selfish pleasure of having a look at them. I wish they made pain-free hooks!


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Well in that case, i have caught snakes incidentally on fishing hooks, once removed they seem just fine. If i thought it was sustainable and i was gonna get better results than using mullet i would certainly consider anything for live bait.



Actually no i don't think i would use a live snake or lizard or mammal of any kind. I think i'd stop at frogs as live bait, everything else would have to be killed first.


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## scorps (Sep 29, 2008)

You forgot spear fishing, I love that


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## SyKeD (Sep 29, 2008)

there is nothing better than taking your family/friends who ever:lol: out on a sunday arvo and going fishing off the wharf or out in the river or ocean

I cant find anything wrong with fishing so there for my answer is There is nothing wrong with fishing...:lol:


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## Bryony (Sep 29, 2008)

Hmmm well....
I am against commercial fishing trawlers but am for individual fishing and social fishing


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## JasonL (Sep 29, 2008)

All I want to know is how to quickly dispatch a abalone??? and how come no one has mentioned the cruelty of the bait??? poor little sand worm wriggling it's life away on a No.6 long shank..... Oh well, I have to go and gas some crickets before I go feed my beardies


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## gelusmuse (Sep 29, 2008)

I love fishing and eating fish.


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

i think trawlers should be band, thay just rape the sea.
i grow my own silver perch and yabbies and trout in my backyard in a 1000lt water tank 100 x 500gram fish a year plus all the veg i can eat . its called aquaponics . theres no need (only greed) to rape the sea .
i dont think we could ever stop people from fishing , it would be impossable to police..


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## waruikazi (Sep 29, 2008)

Farmed fish just don't taste the same.


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## mattmc (Sep 29, 2008)

ive got no problem with fishing...i never catch anything anyway....atleast i can sit back and relax....and while the baits out there waiting...waiting...waiting...waiting...i can go explore stuff and things....live bait works best


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Farmed fish just don't taste the same.


 
i beg to differ, my fish taste like fish , i dont like farmed prawns, but as technoalgy grows thay do get better and there will be a time when you wont be able to tell the differnce.


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## mattmc (Sep 29, 2008)

thepythonpit said:


> i beg to differ, my fish taste like fish , i dont like farmed prawns, but as technoalgy grows thay do get better and there will be a time when you wont be able to tell the differnce.


 
That time is not now though, is it? 

Farm fish is very distinguishable compared to your own fresh fish. Cant go past fresh fish


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## alex_c (Sep 29, 2008)

put it this way if we let group's like Peta gain any ground or have their way it is only a matter of time before we are banned from keeping pet's.the people in charge of these group's are insanely delusional for example the head of Peta sent a letter to yasser arafat complaining about a donkey being killed in a suicide bombing.


and yes i do fish i have pretty much all my life


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

mattmc said:


> That time is not now though, is it?
> 
> Farm fish is very distinguishable compared to your own fresh fish. Cant go past fresh fish


 

ive had prawns straight out of the trawlers kettle and nothing has ever come close to it , and i worked many years in 5 star resturants serving the best food people can buy and stiil havent had prawns better than when i work on trawlers, so it will be a long time before farmed prawns ever are compareable to fresh caught ..

im interested to know how distinguishable you think farmed FISH are to fresh , to date i can only tell the differnce by there shape..


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## caustichumor (Sep 29, 2008)

The only problem with some farmed fish is the cheap grain based feed they get fed, farmed fish fed a diet of "fish" based feed taste as good as sea caught...


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

yeah your right , nearly all framed fish that australia imports (mostly asian countrys) i would never eat even thought thay are purged before filleted and packed. the fish rasied here in australia is second to non, mostly because we have strict rules and regulations on housing and feeding farmed fish..


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

check this site out 
backyardaquaponics.com 
thay have a forum full


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## ytamarin (Sep 29, 2008)

anguskennedy said:


> ...i find myself having more trouble justifying the pain im causing the fish just for the selfish pleasure of having a look at them.


That's the part I have an issue with. People love to observe other creatures (eg bird-watching, herping, fishing) but most of the time there is no harm caused to the animal. When fishing, there is. Scuba diving seems to me like a better way to look at sea life. If it is more about getting out there with friends and family and doing something together, then why not get out on the boat, minus the fishing?
I've never been fishing and I don't understand the culture of it, so to me sport fishing would be like bird-watching with hooks to snatch them off the branch because they are too far away, then letting them fly off again. 
If our waters were clear and we could use binoculars to observe the fish, would people be happy to do that instead? (It's a genuine question, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind fishing for sport.)


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## JasonL (Sep 29, 2008)

yellowtamarin said:


> That's the part I have an issue with. People love to observe other creatures (eg bird-watching, herping, fishing) but most of the time there is no harm caused to the animal. When fishing, there is. Scuba diving seems to me like a better way to look at sea life. If it is more about getting out there with friends and family and doing something together, then why not get out on the boat, minus the fishing?
> I've never been fishing and I don't understand the culture of it, so to me sport fishing would be like bird-watching with hooks to snatch them off the branch because they are too far away, then letting them fly off again.
> If our waters were clear and we could use binoculars to observe the fish, would people be happy to do that instead? (It's a genuine question, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind fishing for sport.)



Thats a fair enough question, but if you don't understand it, you probably never will. I guess it come from deep in our instincts to catch something....like hunters and gatherers, a test of skills against the elements and prey.... to be able to catch something with the brain the size of a pea and still fail ....


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## aliveandkicking (Sep 29, 2008)

Fishing is only cruel if your intentions are cruel. I'm sure some sick fools would get some satisfaction in torturing fish after catching them but the vast majority of us either catch and release or dispatch of the fish quickly and cleanly.


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

plus theres the buzz you get when your on ,its good enough to get you out of bed and on the rocks before sunup, even in winter.
but like you said you dont know and never will..


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## shane14 (Sep 29, 2008)

Fishing used to be my most favourite thing un-till i found Music lol that was replaced by reptiles


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## MatE (Sep 29, 2008)

When will it stop?Why do fish have any more rights then a cricket or even a ant?Man have been fishing for 1000"s of years.Whole cultures have survived doing it.Then some people come in and say you cant go fishing i think not.


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## mungus (Sep 29, 2008)

anguskennedy said:


> Haha well put Vat69
> 
> Of course fishing is cruel, there are multiple papers demonstrating the complex sensory systems of fish, they feel pain just like any other living creature. Just because they do not have the same range of movement available to demonstrate their pain does not mean they are not feeling it.
> 
> ...


 
" justify the pain im causing the fish just for the selfish pleasure of having a look at them "
Hope your dead-set pulling my left leg here........................:shock::shock:


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## hornet (Sep 29, 2008)

yes, i agree it is cruel but by that same token i will not stop fishing, its an integral part of the Aussie life style.


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

mungus said:


> " justify the pain im causing the fish just for the selfish pleasure of having a look at them "
> Hope your dead-set pulling my left leg here........................:shock::shock:



Well thats the only reason for catch and release fishing isnt it? apart from the pulling bit obviously. Like "wow this thing is really ___ of about being impaled on a hook and is fighting for its life, I wonder if i can overpower this animal thats about 3% my mass".


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## Reptile_Boy (Sep 29, 2008)

fish feel pain but what dosnt? fishing has been around for 1000snds of years it is in our nature to catch and eat and now days we do it catch and realese. we keep what we need. here and there some are tropheyed. but it isnt like every one who fishes just kills for fun.


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## thepythonpit (Sep 29, 2008)

cris said:


> Well thats the only reason for catch and release fishing isnt it? apart from the pulling bit obviously. Like "wow this thing is really ___ of about being impaled on a hook and is fighting for its life, I wonder if i can overpower this animal thats about 3% my mass".


 
hahahahah, god ive heard it all now ..


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## Hooglabah (Sep 29, 2008)

cris said:


> That isnt relevant to the point i was trying to make, consider the bait example only if you are only interested in practical examples. The example was in relation to the level of cruelty, whether something is legal or sustainable has nothing to do with cruelty.



1. 90% of the time you use frozen bait 
2. REAL FISHERMEN DONT FEEL SORRY FOR THE BAIT!!!!


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## Hooglabah (Sep 29, 2008)

also this thread is pointless cuz animal rights activists have been trying to ban hunting and firearms for years now and have failed for years now the closest they came was banning fox hounding (wich is a good thing they did for once) and the use of lead shot on ducks. 

By that reasoning they have no hope of banning one of this countries most popular national sports especialy after the cluster frell with the port phillip bay dredgeing.


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## Hooglabah (Sep 29, 2008)

also as an after thought the stress of being caught and release on a fish probably isnt that stressful personally when you think about how small somthing like a bream is. to explain your average bream in victoria is about 500 g - 1kg thats pretty small there for a target for every bigger fish around. i reckon getting caught and put back would be considered a really good day in a fishes mind.


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## Jewly (Sep 29, 2008)

I have no problem with the average person going out fishing as long as they do it responsibly and they are actually catching the fish to eat. I did a lot of fishing when I was younger and we made sure we only took a small amount of fish that we were going to consume ourselves. 

However, I think sport fishing is totally cruel and unnecessary and I do think that should be banned. I don't care what sort of bait or lure that is used, the fish does still suffer and for no good reason other than for someone to 'enjoy' the thrill of the catch.


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## HoffOff (Sep 29, 2008)

hooglabah said:


> 1. 90% of the time you use frozen bait
> 2. Real fishermen dont feel sorry for the bait!!!!



i agree


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## cris (Sep 29, 2008)

Hooglabah said:


> 2. REAL FISHERMEN DONT FEEL SORRY FOR THE BAIT!!!!



Good point, that was sort of what i was getting at. The whole idea that we should have empathy for animals is purely opinion, its just hypocritical when some ppl jump up and down about trivial cruelty issues such as backyard snake surgery, burning snakes to death, using snakes as live bait etc. yet when the same amount of suffering is caused to a fish(or bycatch) for "sport" its all ok.


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## JasonL (Sep 29, 2008)

haha, I never use frozen, lures, flies, fresh or live for me..... though I often use bread for Drummer of the rocks....


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## Reptile_Boy (Sep 29, 2008)

Hetty, RedEyeGirl, xshadowx, zoocam


explain please


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## SlothHead (Sep 30, 2008)

As alluded to in a past post. Ostensibly, sport fishing has been banned in Sweden from next year on. Interestingly, Sweden is a country that seems to lead the way on many ethical issues, so it really is signs of the future.


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## Sdaji (Sep 30, 2008)

Reptile_Boy said:


> Hetty, RedEyeGirl, xshadowx, zoocam
> 
> 
> explain please



I think their explanation would be that it is cruel to drag a fish out of water (the stuff it needs to be in to live) by a barbed hook impaling its mouth just for your own entertainment. If we were to do the same thing to a bird or mammal we'd be in serious legal trouble and if we did it to a reptile we'd be ostracised from the reptile community. Presumably these four people believe that it is a double standard to use different rules for fish.

I go fishing from time to time and wish I could go more... actually this thread has given me the urge to do it. I eat what I catch (unless it's poisonous, gravid etc). I would never fish purely for sport as I wouldn't choose to entertain myself by torturing an animal, but if that's what people want to do, fair enough, the mainstream culture doesn't currently have a problem with it. I find it astonishing that deliberately catching a fish you intend to release is still condoned, even by people who would be furious with someone who handles a snake too often or too roughly. If fish could scream or pull sad faces I have no doubt fishing would be frowned upon (as hunting mammals often is now), and fishing purely for sport would be illegal. As I said, I have no quarrel with people who sport fish (and incidentally, if you want to hunt deer, pigs, etc, I encourage you), although I don't think it will still be legal by the time everyone reading this thread dies. When the first law was passed to protect captive horses from cruelty, by a narrow vote, someone scoffed and said (very sarcastically) "Next they'll pass a law to protect dogs!" and everyone laughed at such an absurd notion. These days people sometimes go to jail for cruelty to dogs, or even cats, and we even have laws protecting mice! In Australia (unlike most countries) we even have laws preventing cruelty to crustaceans. Sometimes things you think will never change do.


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## SlothHead (Sep 30, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> I think their explanation would be that it is cruel to drag a fish out of water (the stuff it needs to be in to live) by a barbed hook impaling its mouth just for your own entertainment. If we were to do the same thing to a bird or mammal we'd be in serious legal trouble and if we did it to a reptile we'd be ostracised from the reptile community. Presumably these four people believe that it is a double standard to use different rules for fish.
> 
> I go fishing from time to time and wish I could go more... actually this thread has given me the urge to do it. I eat what I catch (unless it's poisonous, gravid etc). I would never fish purely for sport as I wouldn't choose to entertain myself by torturing an animal, but if that's what people want to do, fair enough, the mainstream culture doesn't currently have a problem with it. I find it astonishing that deliberately catching a fish you intend to release is still condoned, even by people who would be furious with someone who handles a snake too often or too roughly. If fish could scream or pull sad faces I have no doubt fishing would be frowned upon (as hunting mammals often is now), and fishing purely for sport would be illegal. As I said, I have no quarrel with people who sport fish (and incidentally, if you want to hunt deer, pigs, etc, I encourage you), although I don't think it will still be legal by the time everyone reading this thread dies. When the first law was passed to protect captive horses from cruelty, by a narrow vote, someone scoffed and said (very sarcastically) "Next they'll pass a law to protect dogs!" and everyone laughed at such an absurd notion. These days people sometimes go to jail for cruelty to dogs, or even cats, and we even have laws protecting mice! In Australia (unlike most countries) we even have laws preventing cruelty to crustaceans. Sometimes things you think will never change do.



Well said, and agree, as hunting has become something that is frowned upon, fishing will go the same way, the obvious extension here is, will ever pets then be frowned upon.
Arguements such as "If people want a pet they can go and see them at Zoos"
Or maybe this would open the "rent a pet" business right up which has just began in the US


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## cris (Sep 30, 2008)

SlothHead said:


> Well said, and agree, as hunting has become something that is frowned upon, fishing will go the same way, the obvious extension here is, will ever pets then be frowned upon.
> Arguements such as "If people want a pet they can go and see them at Zoos"
> Or maybe this would open the "rent a pet" business right up which has just began in the US



Pets are already frowned upon by PETA and other similar organisations, the funny thing is most of their members probably have pets :lol:


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## JJS. (Sep 30, 2008)

I fish at least a few times a week.
The only fish i eat is what i catch myself (unless down the fish and chips shop)
I think catching your own is far more sustainable than commercial boats going out with nets. People criticize fishing, yet they head down to the supermarket a few times a week and buy fish that has been caught (not to mention everything else caught at the same time) in nets. Really they are supporting something that would cause far more damage. 
Having said that, not all fisherman practice good fishing, some will leave fishing line and rubbish discarded wherever they have been, or will fish out heaps of juveniles. Luckily this is in the minority. People can't really criticize recreational fishing then head down and buy fish from the shop.
I only keep what I'm going to eat.


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## JasonL (Sep 30, 2008)

Keeping un domestic pets is frowned upon now by many people, I personally think it's worse to keep a snake in a cage than it is to catch a fish and let it go. I'm sure plenty will dis-agree, but it's what I think.


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## reece89 (Sep 30, 2008)

Fishing is nowhere near cruel......
but dont you get fined for releasing carp?
Id never stop fishing for people who are having a cry about how fishing is cruel.


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## Camo (Sep 30, 2008)

God i would be lost without fishing. In saying that i dont aggree with how they trawl and catch turtles or other aquatic species that they are not targetting. hence why those envirotraps are slowly being brought in. They catch the species they are after andlet the bigger aquatics species through the net.

I do alot of fishing. Almost every weekend if i can get out. Most of the time i do catch and release but i do also take them to eat sometimes. IMO i dont think there is anything wrong with that.

With 82.44% of people saying there is nothing wrong with fishing i dont think they have a problem with fishing either.

Cameron


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## JJS. (Sep 30, 2008)

Camo, spot on.
I'm still confused why this is even a topic. If you are against recreational fishing, you better not buy fish (or really any other form of meat) otherwise you are contradicting yourself too much. You can't eat something and ignore the process that was taken to catch it (i.e. pay out fishing, then buy fish that has been caught by trawling nets)
Unless of course your someone who is oblivious to everything and will happily chow down on your meal, without realizing where it came from.
By the way, aquaculture is a very small industry. Hopefully that will change with more fish being farmed. 
It's funny to see who would be more likely to survive in a wild setting, the person catching their food and trying to survive, or the person who starves to death because they didn't want to kill the fish (even though the fish they didn't want to kill has eaten heaps of fish in it's life, so by eating the fish they could actually save heaps of baby fishes lives, so they really should eat the fish, lol) 
Do you see what i mean, it doesn't make sense.


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## Sdaji (Sep 30, 2008)

JJS. said:


> Camo, spot on.
> I'm still confused why this is even a topic. If you are against recreational fishing, you better not buy fish (or really any other form of meat) otherwise you are contradicting yourself too much. You can't eat something and ignore the process that was taken to catch it (i.e. pay out fishing, then buy fish that has been caught by trawling nets)
> Unless of course your someone who is oblivious to everything and will happily chow down on your meal, without realizing where it came from.
> By the way, aquaculture is a very small industry. Hopefully that will change with more fish being farmed.
> ...



Some people are vegetarian, those people aren't being contradictory in any way. People who will buy fish but condemn those who catch it themselves are naive hypocrites, as you say. Not many people would take that stance, but it's reasonable to say that fishing with no intention of keeping anything is cruel. Don't be surprised at what people say; it's common to have people say "Oh my god! You shot a duck? I hate you!" then go and buy a hamburger or "You feed rats to your snake? You sick bastard!" then feed their cat meat from a tin. People are just like that *shrug*.

There wasn't an option in the poll which fitted my thoughts on the issue. I might see if I can manage a bit of fishing this weekend


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## Camo (Sep 30, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Some people are vegetarian, those people aren't being contradictory in any way. People who will buy fish but condemn those who catch it themselves are naive hypocrites, as you say. Not many people would take that stance, but it's reasonable to say that fishing with no intention of keeping anything is cruel. Don't be surprised at what people say; it's common to have people say "Oh my god! You shot a duck? I hate you!" then go and buy a hamburger or "You feed rats to your snake? You sick bastard!" then feed their cat meat from a tin. People are just like that *shrug*.
> 
> There wasn't an option in the poll which fitted my thoughts on the issue. I might see if I can manage a bit of fishing this weekend


Well said mate.

What are you going after if you go?

Cameron


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## mungus (Sep 30, 2008)

cris said:


> Well thats the only reason for catch and release fishing isnt it? apart from the pulling bit obviously. Like "wow this thing is really ___ of about being impaled on a hook and is fighting for its life, I wonder if i can overpower this animal thats about 3% my mass".


 
Overpowering hey........
Well 10kg jewie's on 3 kg line...............I'd say that they would have the edge here.
But, I enjoy it and I dont have to justify it to anyone.
Same as keeping a childrens python all its life in a 2X2X2 enclosure.
Breeding and knocking a few mice on the head to feed it ??
Where do we draw the line.
If its up to the green's you could kiss this all goodbye.


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## TWENTY B (Sep 30, 2008)

i say in the other direction. Ban net fishing leave people to catch what they like as long as it's no tiger own rod and reel.
All these long line and drag nets are the issue to be concerned with.


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## Sdaji (Sep 30, 2008)

Camo: Probably trout. When it gets warmer I'd like to get back into spearfishing. I haven't done it for about three years now! 

*Sdaji's mouth waters*


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## JJS. (Oct 1, 2008)

Sdaji- I have no case against the vegetarian's, lol. Didn't you move up to the Gold Coast? You back already? lol. I move up in a month. Been heading out spearing heaps lately, mainly to check out the water life, but just in case a nice salmon comes past I'll be ready. Get yourself a wetsuit, gloves, hood and booties then there is no excuse to not go in the water year round.


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## Luke1 (Oct 1, 2008)

mattmc said:


> He who thinks fishing is cruel has killed and animal in there past. Idiots! Fishing is GREAT fun. Farmed fish tastes like crud! commercial fish is a week old. There is only 1 way to eat fish, and that is your own catch!


 
true yes...should tell the comerical fishers (with those nets) to nick off and if someone wants a fish to go catch it on a line! personally i like spear fishing better cause its a challenge and you can actually see where the fish are...unlike a line you just hope for the best LOL

i don't like sport fishing! especially for marlin, sail fish spear fish or shark!


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## JJS. (Oct 1, 2008)

Luke1- That's what i like about spearing, its selective. You can choose what you go for and what you don't. You can't always choose what fish jumps on your line (i.e. undersize) but if you see an undersized fish you aren't going to spear it. 
Sdaji- What about all those plants that have put all that effort into producing fruit and veges, only to have them ripped off and eaten, and don't get me started on those poor flowers that get grown, cut, and left to die in a vase for the purpose of aesthetics , vegetarian's are cruel too. lol


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## JJS. (Oct 1, 2008)

If anyone is interested contact PACFA (people against the cutting of flowers for aesthetics)
www.PACFA.flowercentralnervoussystem.com

Also PFPT (plants feel pain too) is a good site that will make everyone think the next time they take a bite into that delicious apple or piece of corn.
www.donteatthatvege.com


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## Sdaji (Oct 1, 2008)

JJS: I moved to Brisbane, then realised what a big mistake it was  Melbourne is a brilliant place to live, even if the climate and herping aren't great. QLD is a great place to visit, but it doesn't suit me as a place to live.

Call me a sook, but it needs to be pretty warm for me to get into the water! I could probably do with a better wetsuit, and I can't even remember what happened to my spear, catch bags, etc.

You don't need to tell me about the horror involved with eating fruit and vegetables! Unfortunately I'm not able to survive on a diet of moonbeams and rainbows. Jokes aside, it's a good point about decorative flowers - people complain about land being wasted on meat animals, but will still go to the florist. People jump on their computers made of all types of minerals imaginable, using electricity, living in a house made of wood, metal and other materials, and complain about mining, polution, land usage, etc. People can't handle the truth, neither can they understand it. That's just the way it is.


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## SlothHead (Oct 1, 2008)

Here is one for all to watch, even has Ewan McGregor in it. 
I am sure there will be more of this type of thing. 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BboafZ4z8V4


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## alex_c (Oct 1, 2008)

cris said:


> Pets are already frowned upon by PETA and other similar organisations, the funny thing is most of their members probably have pets :lol:



Precisely lol they dont even realise what they are supporting lol.:lol:


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## Sdaji (Oct 1, 2008)

Far out! This is pretty sick stuff! Fish processed and even cooked, then served and still alive (or at least, still moving a little).

Don't watch this if you're squeamish! I'm sure many would be quite upset by it. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsZGbsNzkk


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## Camo (Oct 1, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Camo: Probably trout. When it gets warmer I'd like to get back into spearfishing. I haven't done it for about three years now!
> 
> *Sdaji's mouth waters*


We will have to break the drought together then as i have not been in a few years either.

Cameron


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## alex_c (Oct 1, 2008)

i think i actually heard someone say there has been people running over peoples fishing gear in car parks and such on purpose:?


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## Camo (Oct 1, 2008)

SlothHead said:


> Here is one for all to watch, even has Ewan McGregor in it.
> I am sure there will be more of this type of thing.
> 
> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BboafZ4z8V4


Ha ha that was pretty good mate.

Cameron


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## Camo (Oct 1, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Far out! This is pretty sick stuff! Fish processed and even cooked, then served and still alive (or at least, still moving a little).
> 
> Don't watch this if you're squeamish! I'm sure many would be quite upset by it. It doesn't sit well with me at all.
> 
> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsZGbsNzkk


Not wrong mate. I like fresh fish but not that fresh. Not a fan of that kind of thing.

Cameron


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## JJS. (Oct 2, 2008)

alex_c- Lucky those people didn't run over my fishing gear, where did you hear about this?


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## SlothHead (Oct 2, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Far out! This is pretty sick stuff! Fish processed and even cooked, then served and still alive (or at least, still moving a little).
> 
> Don't watch this if you're squeamish! I'm sure many would be quite upset by it. It doesn't sit well with me at all.
> 
> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsZGbsNzkk



Thats a little messy


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## hallie (Oct 2, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> Far out! This is pretty sick stuff! Fish processed and even cooked, then served and still alive (or at least, still moving a little).
> 
> Don't watch this if you're squeamish! I'm sure many would be quite upset by it. It doesn't sit well with me at all.
> 
> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsZGbsNzkk


 
Doing that to a fish is totally unnecessary. Killing it and eating it is one thing but to consume a live animal is sadistic...


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## JasonL (Oct 2, 2008)

Sashimi Lobster (Crayfish) was only recently banned from being served at a local restaurant in my area, it's served up in a similar way to the fish in that vid.


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## shamous1 (Oct 2, 2008)

*Fishing Cruel*

The only curel thing about fishing is when you go camping, drink a heap of grog, enjoying the moment and you nod off on the bank of the Murray, only to wake up an hour later to the sound of bells and your $200+ fishing set-up os being towed down the river by a monster carp. That's cruel.


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## Southside Morelia (Oct 2, 2008)

I'm a fisherman have been all my life and over the last 5 years started spearfishing as well, it's a great sport and pastime. 

I absolutely Love sashimi, but that is tad sadistic!

I was waiting for the fish to flick all that hot sauce over the bastards...lol:lol:


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## Australis (Oct 2, 2008)

Go the spearing, only need to spear what you want to keep
far more selective compared to line fishing.


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## christo (Oct 6, 2008)

Dóh!!!! 

I just voted for the first option by mistake -take off 1 from the "all fishing should be banned" result.


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## moosenoose (Oct 6, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> JJS: I moved to Brisbane, then realised what a big mistake it was  Melbourne is a brilliant place to live, even if the climate and herping aren't great. QLD is a great place to visit, but it doesn't suit me as a place to live.



Ain't that the truth! I lived in that hot-house-State for 26yrs and had a gutful of it! Give me Melbourne any day!! :twisted:

I went to a trout farm yesterday after a failed outing on one of the Rivers in country Victoria ...(I wasn't coming home empty handed! :lol and I must say, there are some things people need to know how to do when they go, or attempt, fishing. One of those examples, as like most things even in the snake-keeping hobby, is learning how to despatch an animal quickly and humanely.

I noticed many novice fisher-people at this trout farm had no idea about how to give the fish a humane send-off. Rather they reefed the hook out of its mouth because they had no experience in removing hooks, and secondly just tossing the thing into a bucket to suffocate (or whatever happens to a fish out of water, which isn’t nice).

I can understand people find fishing cruel and somewhat barbaric, especially when this sort of thing is going on. Everything has the right to a painless ending when you’re talking about hunting or fishing. I don’t see the difference be it fish or land animal. Trout farms and the like should give people a basic run-down of what to do if you catch a fish. A simple rule is this: Put yourself in the animal’s shoes (flippers, hooves etc ) and see how you'd like to be treated if in the same position.


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## Gabi_79 (Oct 6, 2008)

This always comes up every few years and has done for as long as drop kicks have had a say. I'm a sports fisho to the core have been all my life. I mainly fly fish and i release all fish i catch i don't eat fish.

The petty arguements against sports fishing are hollow and have next to no support from anyone for so many reasons.

It's a huge industry particularly in Australia where it's our No.1 pastime. It's also a high revenue raiser with which the government (in NSW at least) has put into buying out destructive beach hauling and trawling licenses, as well as creating marine parks and closing entire estuaries to commercial fishing (like lake maquaire) it's also been put into stocking programs with speices ranging from murray cod to mulloway.
All man made inpoundments have been stocked with hatchery bred fish for sport fishing and it's been a huge success, to the point where the is a large amount of international tourist coming out just to fish our inland impoundments.
I could go on.


I won't say it's not cruel but there is sooooooooo much more wrong with the world than to waste time trying to ban something that will never be banned, not in Australia. The small amount of people who complain about it go home and eat fish, beef, lamb, chicken and don't think twice about some farming practices. Even the vegertarians go home and eat food from farm which create high fertilizer run off which kills waterways.
People should be foucusing their efforts on real problems we have becuase if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it all most people do just as much bad.


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## DragonKeeper (Oct 6, 2008)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
*sigh*
The only fishing that is wrong is keeping protected or underweight fish.


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## yasko (Oct 6, 2008)

*Love fishing*

fishing is not cruel....fishing`s best sport ever (best stress killer).
NO KILLING FOR FUNN....KILL FISH ONLY IF YOU GONNA EAT IT!!!


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## 8438478395783468 (Oct 6, 2008)

yer love fishing but never eat anything i catch even if that 50 cm flathead did look juicy, and tasty and plump


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## waruikazi (Oct 6, 2008)

yasko said:


> fishing is not cruel....fishing`s best sport ever (best stress killer).
> NO KILLING FOR FUNN....KILL FISH ONLY IF YOU GONNA EAT IT!!!



That is the skinniest shark i've ever seen!


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## yasko (Oct 6, 2008)

*No gutts*



waruikazi said:


> that is the skinniest shark i've ever seen!


 i took her guuts out before pics where taken


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## cris (Oct 6, 2008)

Gabi_79 said:


> The petty arguements against sports fishing are hollow and have next to no support from anyone for so many reasons.



The only reason is because its popular, otherwise they wouldnt have made specific exemptions to allow it. If catch and release fishing wasnt popular it would be banned already(not that i think it should be).


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## waruikazi (Oct 6, 2008)

yasko said:


> i took her guuts out before pics where taken



What is it? A lemon? Big mother gummy?


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## rodentrancher (Oct 6, 2008)

We only ever fish for those that we want to eat, and only take what we need - like a couple here and there. What's the point in taking more than you need? Fish and yabbies and other shell fish eg crabs, prawns etc taste like yuck after they have been frozen and defrosted anyway! Cheers Cheryl


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## yasko (Oct 6, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> What is it? A lemon? Big mother gummy?


 it Was 7gilled shark ! not tasty at all...will never take any again...


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## grivai (Oct 27, 2008)

It would be a pleasant change for those that are so spitefully in favour of fishing to actually provide some constructive comments as to why it should be so. I have not read a convincing argument aside from the standard red-blooded 'it's the way its always been, it's my right as the living embodiment of all Australians to fish, drink till I'm blind then go home and watch porn since my wife won't put out' mentality....

Reading the same ill-informed, childish, patronising, condescending vitriol regarding 'greenies', 'tree-huggers' 'tofu-munchers' etc etc. which is largely based on creating some stupid argument based on an incorrect appeal to tradition, or an argument that is _ad absurdum_, is tiresome. The number of 'red herrings' I have just read as a result of people attacking the proponent of the argument, not their position - ie. _ad hominen -_ is a disgrace_._

This is an ethical question, not one that that is correctly supported by simply condoning traditional practices. There are dozens of examples of activities that used to be 'traditional' that are now laughable. For example, do all the angry fishermen who feel threatened by notions of restricting your extractive activities on the public commons agree with stoning women to death? They should, because it is still 'traditional' in Afghanistan and although I think not, ACTUALLY following this flawed line of reasoning leads to that conclusion. This example also highlights the _ad absurdum_ nature of the argument people use when hey decide to start talking about all the animals killed in crop lands, the 'screaming' celery sticks etc. etc.

The social benefits of dropping a line I would agree with - spending a nice day on the water with friends / family etc. However, why does a fishing line have to be involved? People do just fine at the beach without them.

I also agree with the 'catch only what you will eat' notion. Despite the cruelty involved which cannot be denied by anyone with half a brain, if this were the way people obtained their seafood the oceans would still be teeming with life, like they were 'back in the day'. Sadly, most people that go fishing and land nothing will pick up something from the store that was caught via trawling, longlines or 5km long nets that have led to the relatively barren oceans we now have today...as well as an endangered species list longer than I care to think of, bycatch levels that would swamp this country etc etc.

The economic benefits are clear also, but as most people will realise as fish numbers drop theses margins shrink and as already mentioned people these days are extremely flexible and mobile - often changing 'careers' without too many issues at all. Look at the livestock farmers that are HAVING to do it, because decades of mismanaged resources have forced them to.

Where are the 'rights' of say, recreational SCUBA divers who may prefer more fish to be left in the sea, so they can enjoy what lies beneath the big blue? Marine protected areas are an excellent way to go, yet EVERY time a new one is propsed the same old voices try to oppose them - on principle - without even looking at the facts, context and rationale behind them. How much more of the planets resource base do they want to have plundered before waking up? Sure, one person does not make a great difference - but the impacts are cumulative and the world is bigger than just one persons backyard.

Perhaps a little thought in SOME peoples responses would lead to more constructive discussion.


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## FNQ_Snake (Oct 27, 2008)

What brought this topic up?


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## JasonL (Oct 27, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> What brought this topic up?



an extremist


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## grivai (Oct 27, 2008)

Someone who enjoys fishing but stumbled across this and got sick of reading so many of the moronic responses...


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## SlothHead (Oct 28, 2008)

JasonL said:


> an extremist




Though i started the thread, i will presume that you arent refering to me. 

In answer to the question of where did the topic come from is, 

This isnt a new topic by any means, it resurfaces every so often. The most recent cause for discussion has arisen due to Sweden has banned fishing without the intention to keep the fish. i.e. in effect banned sports fishing. 

There are a couple of other places that have done the same, and subsequently interest groups of varying types will therefore pick up the ball. 

Grivai - well articulated response / arguement, thanks for the contribution. 

Cheers


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## DanTheMan (Oct 28, 2008)

Nothing wrong with it, how can it be cruel when it's completely natural? And it's enjoyable, I catch & release, but keep a few for a feed, I dont eat it, but the family does, I do on the odd occasion. Once again, its natural! Humans are hunters & gatherer's just like every other omnivore in this world, so why not do it and enjoy it? Sport fishing is fine, if they keep them or release them, if there's going to be any banning, it should just be catch & release sports fish


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## DanTheMan (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh by the way, for the people that voted for fishing for pest species only, you can't chose which species of fish is going to take your hook, so either way, fish get a little wound from the hooks in there mouths, they either die and get eaten by us, or heal perfectly if released.


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## the.badger (Oct 28, 2008)

Well, I can't vote in this poll because there isn't an option that suits my opinion.

I am a tofu-muncher, I don't eat meat, eggs, fish or dairy, or anything made with animal products (the only strictly non-vegan food I eat are the eggs that my ducks lay). I also try to eat only organic fruit and vegies so as to minimise the negative effects on animals due to fertilisers etc, although this is not always possible.

I do this because I don't like animals to suffer unnecissarily. There's plenty of evidence to support the theory that eating animal products is not good (let alone necessary) for human health or environmental health.

For the record, I do not feed my snakes or other pets carrots. I don't think it's right to impose and enforce my personal choices onto others, and although I will express my opinions when asked in the hope that others will see the sense in it, I would never force an animal or person in my care to eat as I do, except in the case that it would not be detrimental to their health AND they knowingly choose to do so (which, of course, is not the case with animals).

Before I go into detail I should mention that I do not support commercial fishing or trawling, I do not support fishing for sport, but although I don't agree with it personally, I'm not against individuals fishing for food to feed themselves or their families, so long as it is done so in a responsible manner, although I don't like line fishing at all for environmental reasons.

I think the argument that fishing is not cruel is baseless. In my opinion it's pretty obvious that killing an animal, or causing it pain or stress, for no good reason (and I don't believe that fishing for food or fun is a good reason) is cruel. Certainly there are people who try to minimise the cruelty involved in this passtime, but I think killing an animal for human purposes, even if you do it humanely, is intrisically selfish and cruel.

I think the argument that 'we should be able to fish because it's natural for humans to do so' is ridiculous, as the way we all live in the 21st century is not 'natural' in the sense that is inferred in that statement.


I think the argument that 'humans have been fishing for food for centuries, so we should continue to do so' completely daft, as clearly we are no longer living as we did in previous centuries, and no longer need to fish (or eat any animal products, for that matter) for survival. The ocean is a vast resource, but it is no longer big enough to support the current and future human population of the globe.

I think fishing for sport or to 'have a look at the fish' is cruel and unnecissary. What ever happened to snorkelling? Submerging yourself in a marine environment is a far more rewarding way to check out marine life than sitting on a boat and dangling a bit of string overboard.

I think the arguement that 'fish and marine animals eat other fish, so we should too' is nothing less than retarded. Unlike marine life, eating fish is not a necessary part of our diet and we are able to choose whether or not to do so.

The argument that 'God put fish there for a reason (ie. for us to eat)'.... well. What can I even say about that?? I'm just going to leave that one alone I think.

I think anyone who argues that 'fish are used to pain, getting hooked and thrown back in is a good day for a fish' is pretty small-minded and selfish. Really, a good day for a fish would be to be left alone to go about its life. And there are a lot of humans out there who are used to pain, and live with it on a daily basis. They are treated with compassion and often administered pain-killers to help ease their suffering, they are not hooked in the face for a bit of Sunday fun without a second thought.

And to everyone who has hidden behind patriotism, arguing that fishing is part of the Australian way of life and is a favourite national passtime and therefore should be allowed to continue, well I don't even know where to start with you lot, but I could go on about this for hours. Yes, fishing is popular in Australia, as are many marine activities, and this is largely to do with the fact that we are an island nation and blessed with beautiful beaches and a temperate climate. As the anthem says "Our land is gurt by sea". I don't recall singing "Our land abounds with natures gifts of beauty rich and rare, let's all go out and interfere with these wonders, hook them in the face for a thrill, and kill and eat them if we feel like it". Just because something is popular in a certain country, and we're used to it and generally accept it as a normal occurence, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Whaling is popular in Japan, and is part of Japan's national history (a history, I might add, that is a lot older than the history of white Australia) but I bet most of you don't agree with whaling - or if you do, I'm guessing you think it should be limited, controlled and monitored. Dancing bears are popular in Russia, and part of its history, but none of you would deny that causing a bear suffering for human entertainment is nothing less than disgraceful. And yet this stuff doesn't seem to translate to the Australian practices of fishing for entertainment or food which are, in principle, exactly the same as the two examples above. Why not? I don't see the difference.

Anyway, on the whole I think Australia is full of patriots with not a whole lot to be patriotic about. White Australia doesn't have a rich cultural history, and as far as I was aware, drinking beer, not fishing, was our favourite national passtime. Seriously though, all of the activities we adopt as 'part of our culture' like football, barbeques and fishing revolve around their largely social aspects, the majority of people who enjoy these passtimes do so with the aid of a full esky. So if you're playing the patriotism card, well, in my experience you're probably just a drunkard in thongs. You'll forgive me if I don't take your arguments on board.

Having said all that, I realise it's pretty unlikely that the entire globe, or even the nation, will become vegan in my lifetime, and I don't begrudge everyone for that, I know it's hard to break away from the norm, escpecially in our highly commercialised world. I don't have a problem with individuals fishing for food, although I could not do it myself, as long as it's done responsibly and preferably using the spearfishing method.


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## cris (Oct 28, 2008)

Typical deluded vegan nonsense. Can you show me any real evidence at an omnivorous diet is in anyway harmful? Humans are not a vegetarian animal, unless they are following completely unnatural ethics. 

Australia has plenty to be patriotic about, nice tasting wildlife for a start.


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## -Peter (Oct 28, 2008)

Ive rigged up a big spot light on the truck and we are going jigging for cows later tonight.


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## JasonL (Oct 28, 2008)

the.badger said:


> I think anyone who argues that 'fish are used to pain, getting hooked and thrown back in is a good day for a fish' is pretty small-minded and selfish.
> .



It's a good day for the fish, but a better day for the fisherman.......


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## Colin (Oct 29, 2008)

the.badger said:


> The argument that 'God put fish there for a reason (ie. for us to eat)'.... well. What can I even say about that?? I'm just going to leave that one alone I think.



what about jesus and the loaves and the fishes!!!! I dont recall any bible stories about loaves and tofu  
thats probablly because jesus hated tofu :lol:


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## carpetmuncher (Oct 29, 2008)

bundy_zigg said:


> when they catch sharks and chop of fins then drop it back in the water SO CRUEL


 

are you suggesting that the practice you describe is allowed and should be banned? for the reason of being cruel, that act is already illegal.


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## Hooglabah (Oct 29, 2008)

come on guys im a fisherman fishing is cruel but so is life and whether a fish gets hooked or torn apart by a bigger fish its probably going to have a very stressful last few moments (and probably painful too) the topic is pointless as fishing will never be banned except maybe comercial fishing.... hmmm that means more fish for me to catch yay. 

either ither the greenies have a fair point y put an animal through the needless suffering, the only reasons i can come up with is its fun and they taste good (so is hunting but thats alot quicker than fishing... bang dead and if this isnt the case then you should go back to the range and practice on paper targets till you can shoot a hole the size of a 20cent peice. i cant do that yet so i dont hunt yet.) 

however while the greenies have a point so do the fishermen\women fishing is fun and they do taste good and no force on earth is going to stop us from fishing ban it and we'll do it illeagaly make marien sanctuaries and people will poach its the simple. 

with that in mind a greenie response is pretty predictable "your causeing and animal pain just because its fun grrr ragh complian" how would you feel if evidance came out to prove (hypothetically) that vegitable and plant are actually sentient and felt pain what would u do then, or if your a movie buff and you found out just how damageing to the environment 1 projector is i could tell you if u like im sitting inbetween 3 of them. im a projectionist and i can tell you right now going to the movies is probably one of the most enviromentaly damageing thing that we take for granted that i can think of. 

for a starter the projectors themselfs run 100,000 wat bulbs called xenon lamps they suck electricity and produce a highly toxic vapor wich is pumped through exaghust fans into the atmophere then you have your film wich is chemically treated with arsnic metho and a few other chemicals i dont know how to spell or pronounce, the film itself is made from plant and animal products and when a film finishes its time in the cinema they cut it up with an axe and throw it in rubbishdumps thats just off the top of my head i could get you a three page list if u like. 

there are millions of things every day that we do that screw with nature or harm wild life in somway we just dont care because if we did our nice comfortable life style would go out the window. 

so befor any greenie preaches at me or my fellow hunter gathers think about what you do that effects the environment atleast we arent hypocrits, how many greenies drive or catch a bus or train you have legs use em or ride a bike what about tv do you watch it, do you use electircity do you cook your meals ect ect. all of these thing negitively affect the environment many many times more than fishing or hunting, and through that harm animals and are in themselfs acts of animal cruelty, copper mineing for cables destroys environment and all the big rig movement is surely going to harm some animals silcone chips for computers and ty sets produce chokeing gasses when constucted that would burn the lungs of any human who breathes it at least we have biohazd suits and respirators birds dont have that choice. so theres my rant its full of spelling and gramatical errors i know and is kinda obscure but that the way my mind works as far as im concerned the only person who can tell me im a horrible person for fishing or hunting and have a holier that thou attitude about it is sobody who lives entierly off the land and doesnt use any modern tech at all. however they probably wouldnt do that because they wouldnt have time to waste on it as they are trying to survive.
so there not saying im right or your wrong but at least admit that your just as bad in differant ways.


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## the.badger (Oct 31, 2008)

cris said:


> Typical deluded vegan nonsense. Can you show me any real evidence at an omnivorous diet is in anyway harmful? Humans are not a vegetarian animal, unless they are following completely unnatural ethics.
> 
> Australia has plenty to be patriotic about, nice tasting wildlife for a start.



Humans are herbivores. I'm not going to hijack this thread with "Go Vegan" preaching, but have a look at the info below, which compares the anatomy of carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, and humans. If you care to read more on the topic I can point you in the right direction.

Facial Muscles

Carnivore:	Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Omnivore:	Reduced
Herbivore:	Well developed
Human: Well developed

Jaw Motion

Carnivore:	Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Omnivore:	Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore:	No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Human: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Teeth (Incisors)

Carnivore:	Short and pointed
Omnivore:	Short and pointed
Herbivore:	Broad, flattened, and spade-shaped
Human: Broad, flattened, and spade-shaped

Teeth (Canines)

Carnivore:	Long, sharp, and curved
Omnivore:	Long, sharp, and curved
Herbivore:	Dull and short or long (for defense) or none
Human: Short and blunted

Teeth (Molars)

Carnivore:	Sharp, jagged, and blade-shaped
Omnivore:	Sharp blades and/or flattened
Herbivore:	Flattened with cusps vs. complex surface
Human: Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing

Carnivore:	None; swallows food whole
Omnivore:	Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Herbivore:	Extensive chewing necessary
Human: Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva

Carnivore:	No digestive enzymes
Omnivore: No digestive enzymes
Herbivore:	Carbohydrate-digesting enzymes
Human: Carbohydrate-digesting enzymes

Stomach Acidity

Carnivore:	Less than or equal to pH of 1 with food in stomach
Omnivore:	Less than or equal to pH of 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore:	pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Human: pH of 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Length of Small Intestine

Carnivore:	3 to 6 times body length
Omnivore:	4 to 6 times body length
Herbivore:	10 to more than 12 times body length
Human: 10 to 11 times body length

Nails

Carnivore:	Sharp claws
Omnivore:	Sharp claws
Herbivore:	Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Human: Flattened nails



Taken from http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp


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## funcouple (Oct 31, 2008)

your kidding. this has to be a gee up. if its not, are you really serious. maybe we should all just stop breathing


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## cris (Oct 31, 2008)

the.badger said:


> Humans are herbivores. I'm not going to hijack this thread with "Go Vegan" preaching, but have a look at the info below, which compares the anatomy of carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, and humans. If you care to read more on the topic I can point you in the right direction.
> 
> Facial Muscles
> 
> ...



:lol: back to primary school for you, perhaps try eating more meat, you may be lacking essential nutrients to allow proper brain function. Not eating animals is a cultural retardation, unless it is required for medical reasons(if that is possible?).


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## ihaveherps (Oct 31, 2008)

badger, I didnt see anything about number of stomachs, and apedics size in relation to rest of digestive tract when comparing herbivores, omnivores and carnivores, since you seem to be the data master how about you throw that info up. While your at it, dig up some info on brain function and basic intelligence.


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## fraser888 (Oct 31, 2008)

Nothing wrong with fishing?


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## mattmc (Oct 31, 2008)

Excuse my French but I think this is all a load of Bull. 

That Is all.

Matt =)


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## lovey (Oct 31, 2008)

the.badger said:


> Well, I can't vote in this poll because there isn't an option that suits my opinion.
> 
> I am a tofu-muncher, I don't eat meat, eggs, fish or dairy, or anything made with animal products (the only strictly non-vegan food I eat are the eggs that my ducks lay). I also try to eat only organic fruit and vegies so as to minimise the negative effects on animals due to fertilisers etc, although this is not always possible.
> 
> ...


 

zzzZZZZzzzz
zzzZZZZzzzz
zzzZZZZzzzz
I fell asleep after "tofu muncher" sorry, ill read the rest when i wake up..
zzzZZZZzzzz
zzzZZZZzzzz


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## Minke (Oct 31, 2008)

carpetmuncher said:


> are you suggesting that the practice you describe is allowed and should be banned? for the reason of being cruel, that act is already illegal.


 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/20/2340735.htm

They may not throw them back in alive, but shark finning is well and truely still happening.


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## jessb (Oct 31, 2008)

Minke said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/20/2340735.htm
> 
> They may not throw them back in alive, but shark finning is well and truely still happening.


 
But so is murder and rape and all sorts of terrible practices. I think carpetmuncher's point (and I'm finding it very difficult to type that name without snorting with laughter) is that this awful practice is already illegal, unlike fishing which is still generally acceptable.


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## daniel1234 (Oct 31, 2008)

miley_take said:


> I can sort of see where they're coming from, but these animal rights groups are taking it a bit too far aren't they? It's starting to be like the politically correct capiagns OS
> 
> eg. Baa Baa Black Sheep is now Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep
> Cookie Monster is now Veggie Monster
> ...


 
Mmm, how true.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll just finish making my tofu sausages for the snakes!


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## Minke (Oct 31, 2008)

jessb said:


> But so is murder and rape and all sorts of terrible practices. I think carpetmuncher's point (and I'm finding it very difficult to type that name without snorting with laughter) is that this awful practice is already illegal, unlike fishing which is still generally acceptable.


 
I'm not saying its the worst thing in the world, just pointing out to anyone who is interested that Queensland exports large amounts of shark fin every year (which i didn't know until recently - i had assumed it only happened overseas). On the fishing point, personally don't like fishing, but that is me. As someone else said i'll never understand the attraction to it, but i do like to eat barra...


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## Dipcdame (Oct 31, 2008)

We go crabbing, in nets, throw the undersized ones back (sustainability)............. we keep the over sized, ONLY males (throw the females back too).................... they're usually dead within the hour when we come off the jetty............... but we make sure they are before we cook them!
The one thing I hate are the individuals who keep closed bins, keeping everything that comes up in the nets, and hiding them under the tarp in the back of their utes! Usually olive skinned eurpoeans, and usually to sell to supermarkets, who sell the undersized ones regardless, blatantly, to the public!!!!!!


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## the.badger (Oct 31, 2008)

ihaveherps, there have been hundreds of articles written on the topics you mentioned in the last 10 years that provide answers to your particular questions. A good starting point is the work of Richard Wrangham, a controversial Harvard anthropologist who attributes human brain development and many other physical developments in humans to the consumption of cooked root veges rather than red meat.

Also, it's interesting to note that human brain size has actually decresed by 11% in the past 35 000 years, whilst the consumption of red meat has increased.

There is a LOT of evidence to suggest that the reason the caecum and appendix is a lot smaller in humans that it is in other herbivores is due to a combination of the fact that humans historically consumed a diet high in nuts and seeds, many of which do not contain digestable cellulose, and the fact that cellulose walls are softened when heated (cooked). You can also check out the comparative sizes of the appendix in humans as opposed to our closest relatives, monkeys and apes - the proportions are similar in these herbivores to our proportions, and some species do not even have an appendix.

(And for those of you who will argue that apes are in fact omnivores as they consume red meat on rare occasions, mostly in a canibalistic nature: do a little more digging and you will discover that after eating red meat, they will ingest toxic herbs to purge the meat before it is digested).

For more info and heaps of articles, just navigate to www.google.com and have a look-see, that is if you actually care to read the opinions of various academics that are contrary to your own... if you're just here for a flame session, as i suspect you are, and if you're completely uninterested in taking anyone else's theories on board, don't bother adding fuel to the fire. I realise that the widely accepted opinion in this day and age is not my own, and it's conversations like these that have led me to read up on the issue a lot more than your average meat eater, as I switched to a vegan diet for health reasons rather than theoretical ones. As most people have learned to accept this common belief from a young age they're, more often than not, opposed to changing their stance at a much later date. If that were the case here, as it is with most people, there'd be no point in me referring you to books or articles, and the only thing I could further suggest would be that you try a vegan diet for 3 months and see how much better you feel. But I really can't see that happening either.

For this reason, I'm not going to continue with this discussion on this forum and besides, it's waaaay off topic, if anyone wants to continue chatting about this stuff, PM me.


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## daniel1234 (Oct 31, 2008)

Minke said:


> I'm not saying its the worst thing in the world, just pointing out to anyone who is interested that Queensland exports large amounts of shark fin every year (which i didn't know until recently - i had assumed it only happened overseas). On the fishing point, personally don't like fishing, but that is me. As someone else said i'll never understand the attraction to it, but i do like to eat barra...


 
Don't they sell shark as butterfish? Point is I thought we actually use the rest of the shark unlike those that kill just for a given part like a tusk or horn.


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## coz666 (Oct 31, 2008)

i breed em, i feed fish.
i feed fish to fish, bears eat fish, snakes eat fish
fishing for trophies, are mostly catch and release these days, marlin is tagged or recorded.
i eat fish, and if you were bleeding in the ocean they would eat you 
get em b4 they get you.
gotta go, my tropheus are eyeing me off


lol
aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhh


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## mattmc (Oct 31, 2008)

i had fish for dinner....yummo 

Fish is good for you.....Omega 3 fatty acids.....good good.....neccissary for good brain devolopment....

And in all honesty.....if you want us...humans...an animal...to stop eating animals, tell me the diff between a human eating meat and a croc eating meat....if the animal the meat comes from is killed humanely...im happy...if its not..ill still eat it. meat is a part of life. especially aussie life. and what, if we did by law all have to eat veges and no meat....what would we do with the live stock? let em all be free and destroy our environment....yehp, smart move indeed  seriosly.... how pathetic of a topic


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## daniel1234 (Oct 31, 2008)

coz666 said:


> i breed em, i feed fish.
> i feed fish to fish, bears eat fish, snakes eat fish
> fishing for trophies, are mostly catch and release these days, marlin is tagged or recorded.
> i eat fish, and if you were bleeding in the ocean they would eat you
> ...


 
LOL
This is not about if we should or should not eat fish, rather how we eat them, or catch them at least.


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## Minke (Oct 31, 2008)

daniel1234 said:


> Don't they sell shark as butterfish? Point is I thought we actually use the rest of the shark unlike those that kill just for a given part like a tusk or horn.


 
My point is it's not illegal, i thought the export of fins in Australia would have been banned... yes you must have a permit to catch them, yes we use the rest of the fish, no we don't fin them at sea, but we are supplying to the fin trade and therefore contributing to the problem. The argument can be made that because we are already catching them, we may as well sell the fin... I don't agree.

Anyway, back to whether fishing is bad.


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## longte (Nov 1, 2008)

As long as the fish caught are killed quickly and treated as food I have no problem with fishing


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## PhilK (Nov 1, 2008)

Hahahaha man vegans are so funny. 

"I'm a vegan but I eat my duck eggs" - what? So you're NOT a vegan.. You're a vego. That's up there with "I'm vegetarian but I still eat chicken and fish".

Humans are omnivorous. That's why we thrive on meat and veges. A sole diet of either is detrimental to our health (hence why you get sick if you eat too little veges, and anaemic when you eat too little meat). Every vegan I know is on iron tablets for anaemia. Sounds like the healthy, natural diet to me . Pity you'd all be dead if we hadn't evolved to be so smart we can fix your self afflicted deficiencies 

Also that anatomy jargon is rubbish. It can be explained by the fact that evolution doesn't keep up with our eating habits. As it doesn't in many other examples in the natural kingdom. 

For example, pandas eat solely bamboo - SOLELY - yet they have large canines, small incisors and shearing carnassial teeth (carnivore dentition). If you kept a pet panda would you feed it antelope because it has the same teeth as a carnivore, and therefore should eat the same way as one?

By your [flawed] reasoning, emus and ostriches have wings so they are meant to fly. Err wrong.


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## Kathryn_ (Nov 1, 2008)

I think catching your own fish for dinner is a damn sight less cruel and more environmentally sound than buying it down the supermarket, but I can't fathom why anyone would think killing / injuring animals they had no intention of eating was a "fun" way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

PhilK: The average vegan diet is significantly more healthy than the average western omnivorous diet. We don't need nearly as many animal products as we consume in the west, which is a huge part of why we have such spectacularly high rates of heart disease. And just quietly, the word "jargon" is only used by people who don't understand what they've read.


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## carol (Nov 1, 2008)

My husband and I are both fishing people. We've heard all this before. Over the years we have seen a number of people, catching fish which are under sized and keeping them, What about the fisherman who do this for a living. Who wants to buy imported fish from overseas, not us. Doesn't taste the same. Most people we know are into fishing. It's getting ridiculous now. We enjoy fishing, and we intend to keep fishing whether they like it or not.


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## Ersatz (Nov 1, 2008)

I've go fishing for approx 3 weeks at the end of every year with my old man. We camp it out for 3 weeks, up near coffs. Would eat fish for probably 17/20 night that we stay up there. They are all legally sized, and never ever have we even gone anywhere naar the bag-limit. We NEVER kept more than we could eat - stupidly because sometimes we were short, lol.

I learnt how to gut a fish in a humane way before i learnt how to count - lol. By the time I was in kindergarten I could gut a fish, not terribly well, but I knew how to. These days I can gut fish with my eyes closed, but thats totally different. Again, NEVER have a killed a fish for the fun of it.

Many people abusing the fishing laws, by taking over the bag limit, keeping under-sized fish, and also keeping pregnant fish, or the simplest one. Fishing without a license. I think fishing is a great hobby, its a great way to relax when you are on holidays, and just because a small percentage of morons dont follow the laws doesn't mean everyone should get the priveledge to fish taken away.


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## carol (Nov 1, 2008)

Already commented in previous post. To all the guys, plus hubby, surf fishing at Seaspray this weekend. Hope you catch heaps and heaps of fish. LOL.:lol:


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## PhilK (Nov 2, 2008)

Kathryn_ said:


> PhilK: The average vegan diet is significantly more healthy than the average western omnivorous diet. We don't need nearly as many animal products as we consume in the west, which is a huge part of why we have such spectacularly high rates of heart disease. And just quietly, the word "jargon" is only used by people who don't understand what they've read.


Well, I haven't gotten less than a 7 in any anatomy subjects in vet so far (including Animal Nutrition and Digestive Anatomy) so I wouldn't put it down to me not understanding what I read 

I do agree that we eat more meat than we _need_ in Western society, that much is obvious because of heart disease etc (as you stated), but heart disease can also be attributed (and is very much so) to high salt and fat diets. What I'm saying is that a vegan diet is not what humans have evolved to eat, and there can be no arguing of that fact. Humans have evolved to be omnivorous.

Oh and fishing probably isn't the most pleasant thing for the fish, but it sure is fun. I love to fish, and I don't always eat them. What I don't eat I just throw back. (I also Scuba dive so don't use the 'you should go underwater to see fish' argument on me please )


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## fine_jungles (Nov 2, 2008)

PhilK said:


> For example, pandas eat solely bamboo - SOLELY - yet they have large canines, small incisors and shearing carnassial teeth (carnivore dentition). If you kept a pet panda would you feed it antelope because it has the same teeth as a carnivore, and therefore should eat the same way as one?
> quote]
> 
> 
> ...


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## JasonL (Nov 2, 2008)

Pandas eat any meat they will come across, usually only dead animals, as they have evloved into a poor hunter from their poor diet of eating bamboo, which they have to eat vast amounts of to stay alive and function. There was a doco I saw some years back of one eating a large dead animal, it had blood all over itself and didn't look so cuddly.


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## Hooglabah (Nov 2, 2008)

you eat small animals auch as rats  lol so do i not rats tho the smallest i eat i think would be bunnies or maybe quail


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## daniel1234 (Nov 2, 2008)

thepythonpit said:


> i think trawlers should be band, thay just rape the sea.
> i grow my own silver perch and yabbies and trout in my backyard in a 1000lt water tank 100 x 500gram fish a year plus all the veg i can eat . its called aquaponics . theres no need (only greed) to rape the sea .
> i dont think we could ever stop people from fishing , it would be impossable to police..


 
Wow:shock:


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## daniel1234 (Nov 2, 2008)

PhilK said:


> Hahahaha man vegans are so funny.
> 
> "I'm a vegan but I eat my duck eggs" - what? So you're NOT a vegan.. You're a vego. That's up there with "I'm vegetarian but I still eat chicken and fish".
> 
> ...


 
Yeh, to much of anything will kill ya.


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## Hooglabah (Nov 2, 2008)

im eating soup with bread its really hard to finish a whole bowl without a spoon im sooooooooooooo fulll................................... pickled octopus rules


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## cris (Nov 2, 2008)

daniel1234 said:


> Wow:shock:



It was a fair comment, sustainable high intensity agriculture such as aquaponics is going to be very important in the future. Some types of trawling are extremely destructive and can be very ineffecient. I think we could be taking much more from Austrlaian waters sustainalbly , but it needs to be done right.

One of the main issues wtih aquaponics is that one of the best fish to use is a noxious pest in Australia. Still it can work with other species if you can get food in an effiecent way(eg. not trawled seafood).


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## domdom22 (Nov 2, 2008)

fishing is fun
spearfishing is awesome!


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## Australis (Nov 2, 2008)

I like fishing, but i LOVE spearing 



the.badger said:


> I do this because I don't like animals to suffer unnecessarily. There's plenty of evidence to support the theory that eating animal products is not good (let alone necessary) for human health or environmental health.



Eating bulk carbs isn't particularly good for you (humans) either.
Environmental health has suffered severely due to agriculture
and sent countless species to extinction, vegos aren't really 
doing the environment any favors.

What else do you do to prevent animals suffering, because
changing your diet does little to nothing.

I take it you don't wear or use wools, cottons or leather?
Never use canola oil etc?


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## grimbeny (Nov 2, 2008)

To be fair the land and water required to grow a kg of meat is substantially higher than a kg of vegetable products.


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