# Feeding skins to burtons is illegal in NSW



## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

isnt feeding skinks to burtons illegal in NSW ? but i see two adds on another site with burtons for sale say they are fed on live skinks 
obvious from wild caught stock. i think this practise should be reported to DECCE i know Sonia from SA tube feeds hers on a furmula and so do others that have breed them so there should be no reason for feeding live reptiles to reptiles .


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## gillsy (Jan 26, 2011)

Just because they eat skinks doesn't mean they are wild caught. It is illegal if it's not needed to stay alive. 

They are difficult feeders, and most won't go to anything else or feeding it through a tube is time consuming.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

At least the adds are upfront about it. I know in some states they have a live feeders list which lists the animals you can catch from the wild to feed to your herps.

Also South Australia is very strict having done a behind the scene's tour of the zoo I was told by the keeper that it is illegal to feed anything alive if it has a spine so insects are alright but anything else is prohibited.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

they may not be wild caught sorry i should not have said that .
but a reptile keeper feeding retiles other then Asian house geckos which i have since found out by a few burton keepers in QLD is allowed.it is illegal wether difficult feeders or not and doesnt matter if he is up front in the add my point for this post was i think its very wrong to condone any reptile being used for a food source if you cant feed them on some thing else then you should keep them .
i have emailed DECC with a copy of the add .


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Geez, better stop catching those garden skinks and using them to scent pray items....lmao.


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## dihsmaj (Jan 26, 2011)

The fact that Burton's is on basic licence is strange. 
They're extremely difficult feeders, and in Vic, it's illegal to feed them...


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Geez, better stop catching those garden skinks and using them to scent pray items....lmao.


 they all so use Oedura lesuerii's, and Eulamprus Quoyi juveniles for food so its not just Garden skinks 


Lamo good reply very intelligent


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## Radar (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> i think its very wrong to condone any reptile being used for a food source.
> .



Do you feed your snakes mice and rats? Your gecko's/beardies roaches and crickets? 
I don't know if you're a vegetarian or not so I won't ask if you've ever eaten a steak. 

Rodents are very intelligent creatures, if anything you should be more worried about the amount of people that feed rodents to snakes than AHG's and the occasional garden skink to burtons.


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

rednut said:


> Do you feed your snakes mice and rats? Your gecko's/beardies roaches and crickets?
> I don't know if you're a vegetarian or not so I won't ask if you've ever eaten a steak.
> 
> Rodents are very intelligent creatures, if anything you should be more worried about the amount of people that feed rodents to snakes than AHG's and the occasional garden skink to burtons.


 
No, didn't you realise, it is ok to feed anything as long as you aren't passionate about it. Go on a rodent forum and ask them if they any rats for sale to feed you snake. Fact is, burtons eat reptiles, if you don't like it don't keep them. If people are feeding the AHG then good, they are an introduced species anyway. Go and cry to NPWS about it, but if I had them I would be feeding them all the little skinks around my house. But I don't like to feed anything a live food item especially wild caught.

If I loved rats, I wouldn't condone the use of them to feed snakes, if I were vegetarian, I wouldn't condone the use of meat from cows, sheep, pigs or any living animal for that matter. If I loved fish, then I would condone the use of using live feeder fish to feed my oscar or eating at a seafood restuarant. If I loved shellfish I wouldn't condone the use using prawns to catch fish, or to even contemplate eating them. Point is, get over it, everone has an opnion and it doesn't make yours any more valid than mine. A guy has a pet lizard that he is keeping alive by the use of a food item whch happens to be another reptile, if it was on the endagered species list I would be concerned. Maybe it is best if just let it starve to death.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

rednut said:


> Do you feed your snakes mice and rats? Your gecko's/beardies roaches and crickets?
> I don't know if you're a vegetarian or not so I won't ask if you've ever eaten a steak.
> 
> Rodents are very intelligent creatures, if anything you should be more worried about the amount of people that feed rodents to snakes than AHG's and the occasional garden skink to burtons.


 what an ignorant answer if i was a mice fancier i wouldnt feed them mice 
i am not agianst feeding live animals that are rodents or pest or commercial breed for that purpose , but catching wild skinks and gecoks .

i see now one of the members also has a burtons for sale on this site so i guess iam going to get some flack from loyal mates 
if i had a hard to feed python would it be ok to feed it another hard to feed python so you at least get one eatting 
I think not !


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey I have eaten Crocodile farmed of course supplied on a survival camp. It't delish.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> isnt feeding skinks to burtons illegal in NSW ? but i see two adds on another site with burtons for sale say they are fed on live skinks
> obvious from wild caught stock. i think this practise should be reported to DECCE i know Sonia from SA tube feeds hers on a furmula and so do others that have breed them so there should be no reason for feeding live reptiles to reptiles .


 

Point me to the area of legislation where it says it is illegal.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> what an ignorant answer if i was a mice fancier i wouldnt feed them mice
> i am not agianst feeding live animals that are rodents or pest or commercial breed for that purpose , but catching wild skinks and gecoks .
> 
> i see now one of the members also has a burtons for sale on this site so i guess iam going to get some flack from loyal mates
> ...


 Live feeding can cause harm to snakes! that is why people are agaist it also how would you like to be dangled by your leg and dropped into the mouth of a python? Live feeding is not like it would be in the wild snakes are ambush predators so the rodents don't see it coming.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> Point me to the area of legislation where it says it is illegal.


 This is what i asked isnt it illegal?
in stead of just saying No its not there is a list of skinks and geckos you can legal use in QLD but not in NSW or VIC 

i thought you weren't allowed to take any reptile from the wild whether big or small in NSW

i see no one will give answer in case they incriminate a mate !!


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

It has nothing to do with incriminating a mate it has to do with your confusing mixed views.


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## Jeffa (Jan 26, 2011)

would a burtons eat a freshly thawed ahg?


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## Ramsayi (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> This is what i asked isnt it illegal?
> in stead of just saying No its not there is a list of skinks and geckos you can legal use in QLD but not in NSW or VIC
> 
> i thought you weren't allowed to take any reptile from the wild whether big or small in NSW
> ...


 
You started the thread but want other to do the research? How about finding out if it is illegal or not before running to the DECC to report the issue.If indeed it is an issue at all.


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> obvious from wild caught stock. i think this practise should be reported to DECCE i know Sonia from SA tube feeds hers on a furmula and so do others that have breed them so there should be no reason for feeding live reptiles to reptiles .



You also incrinated the seller by saying it from obvious wild stock. Have you ever kept burtons? Do you know if they are hard to feed or not, have you tried offering them other sources of food. No, you just assumed they were wild caught.

You then go on to 'send a letter to DECC without even knowing if it is illegal yourself. So if you want to incriminate someone in future, at least do your research, get your facts straight and don't come on here telling everyone how bad it is to sell an animal that is feeding on reptiles and that they should be reported.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

inst feeding skinks to burtons illegal in NSW ?
this is all i wanted to know its the first line in my post .

is it or isnt it 
nothing else
with all this expertise here surely some one can answer this with out any garbage added


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Beat me to it rams...lol


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## Radar (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> what an ignorant answer if i was a mice fancier i wouldnt feed them mice
> i am not agianst feeding live animals that are rodents or pest or commercial breed for that purpose , but catching wild skinks and gecoks .
> 
> i see now one of the members also has a burtons for sale on this site so i guess iam going to get some flack from loyal mates
> ...


 
Ignorant? Ok, good for me I guess. 

I think you are getting a little bit carried away here. The member who has one for sale is not a 'mate'. Really. I don't even know them. 
If you had a species of python that was rare in captivity, evolved to feed on reptiles, couldn't readily be switched to rodents and wasn't amicable to tube feeding, I doubt that too many people who had been around the traps, so to speak, would condone you for feeding it an introduced species of pest snake that was readily available. I don't encourage live feeding, but sometimes it has to be done. I think you will find they also take frozen ahg's....

I doubt your last example would ever occur...afterall, a species that has evolved to only eat it's own kind....well that's a bit of a negative selective pressure.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

is it legal? or not in NSW to use live reptiles as food for other reptiles 
i still think it is wrong either way



rednut said:


> Ignorant? Ok, good for me I guess.
> 
> I think you are getting a little bit carried away here. The member who has one for sale is not a 'mate'. Really. I don't even know them.
> If you had a species of python that was rare in captivity, evolved to feed on reptiles, couldn't readily be switched to rodents and wasn't amicable to tube feeding, I doubt that too many people who had been around the traps, so to speak, would condone you for feeding it an introduced species of pest snake that was readily available. I don't encourage live feeding, but sometimes it has to be done. I think you will find they also take frozen ahg's....
> ...


 i dont care about live feeding or not this post was aboat feeding skinks or reptiles live or dead as food for burtons 
so dont jump on this post for you own ideas on live food rats, mice,worms i dont care start your own post on that topic


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

It may not be wrong. I have found said add. It just says feeding on garden skinks how this is done it says nothing. I think you need to read things through.

There are dodgy people everywhere I have been offered illegal herps I said no. Chances are if what they are doing is illegal then they would have advertised with a fake name ect ect.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> It may not be wrong. I have found said add. It just says feeding on garden skinks how this is done it says nothing. I think you need to read things through.


 i dont care how it is done all i want to know is .is it ilegal in NSW 
it seems it must be as no one will answer just attack ,its a simple question people 
yes or no will do
as for me sending of an email to Decc thats me defending what i believe is a wrongthing happening if its legal then there is no problem if an i hope i change the way Decc look at there policies on feeding reptiles to reptiles as food


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

They could be shipping in frozen garden skinks from a state where you can legally do it then they cannot be done. So if it is there are ways around it.

In the end the DECCW has better things to do than to launch an investigation over an add online.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

should i start another post that just says
is it legal or illegal to feed reptiles to reptiles in NSW
and what do you think is it a good husbandry practice do to parasites
and the taking of wild caught reptiles


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

You can if you want but its illegal to have rabbits in QLD but you can buy them frozen if you really want you can get frozen reptiles freighted in and feed them to your burtons so they could be doing that.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 26, 2011)

You can also keep AHG on license in NSW.


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> You can also keep AHG on license in NSW.


 
Maybe you should you use these to get your BHPs feeding rams, instead of the maccies.:shock:


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## Ramsayi (Jan 26, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Maybe you should you use these to get your BHPs feeding rams, instead of the maccies.:shock:


 
Jeezzz don't say that Daz I will end up getting into trouble now :lol: Although I guess I could resort to using coastals as I doubt anyone would care :shock:


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> You can also keep AHG on license in NSW.


 so are you allowed to use them for food if there in license??
still no answer on the first question i didnt think it was to hard but i was wrong

Ramsayi is it legal or ilegal do you know the answer ?


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> Jeezzz don't say that Daz I will end up getting into trouble now :lol: Although I guess I could resort to using coastals as I doubt anyone would care :shock:


 
Ah yeh, you have a point there.


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## MontePython (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> they may not be wild caught sorry i should not have said that .
> but a reptile keeper feeding retiles other then Asian house geckos which i have since found out by a few burton keepers in QLD is allowed.it is illegal wether difficult feeders or not and doesnt matter if he is up front in the add my point for this post was i think its very wrong to condone any reptile being used for a food source if you cant feed them on some thing else then you should keep them .
> i have emailed DECC with a copy of the add .



Your obviously already in contact with the DECC so why dont you ask them?


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

I guess you need to be in the click for a sensible reply


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## hugsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey C.bayo, are you incapable of doing research for yourself? Try googling the question or the NPWS website.


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## hornet (Jan 26, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> You can also keep AHG on license in NSW.


 
But i believe its illegal to use any licensed animal as a feeder yes?


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## GSXR_Boy (Jan 26, 2011)

You probably kill half a dozen of them when you mow the lawn.. not to mention the ones that always drown in people's pools etc.


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## gillsy (Jan 26, 2011)

So you would rather the Burton's starve. 

You know how many commonly kept reptiles are started on skinks or live pinkies... What's the difference there.


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## hornet (Jan 26, 2011)

I know some states have a number of common species that can be legally used as feeders as there are many reptiles kept that really only eat other reptiles. 

Now let me get this straight. You are not against the live feeding of rodents to reptiles but you are against any reptiles being used as feeders, dead or alive? You condone a illegal and cruel practice but your against feeding pre-killed lizards to reptiles that need them?


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Thats what I said Hornet but obviously not as clear as you.


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## C.Bayo (Jan 26, 2011)

i give up it was a simple question 
a yes or no would have done 
i didnt know Gilly had an add here about his burtons to after i post the simple but difficult Question to answer, rather you would attack then say hay mate yea it legal
and a common practice amongst reptile lovers to feed reptiles to reptiles in NSW 
what do skink breed ers think hornet your supposed to be a skink fancier how does this practice stand ok with you i. dout it would be fine


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## gillsy (Jan 26, 2011)

I answered your post initially, you are allowed if there is no other alternative. 

I prefer to feed mice, you know how hard it is to ship AHG's down from QLD, or find skinks in an inner city apartment block. 

But burtons are solely reptile feeders, and is very difficult to get them feeding on anything else, so before you start accusing people you should check before you start flying accusations around. 

I know alot of skink breeders, that feed common garden skinks to burtons. But feeding a common garden skink to a burtons is different to feeding an uncommon ergenia.


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## hornet (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> i give up it was a simple question
> a yes or no would have done
> i didnt know Gilly had an add here about his burtons to after i post the simple but difficult Question to answer, rather you would attack then say hay mate yea it legal
> and a common practice amongst reptile lovers to feed reptiles to reptiles in NSW
> what do skink breed ers think hornet your supposed to be a skink fancier how does this practice stand ok with you i. dout it would be fine


 
yes i love skinks, even garden skinks but i honestly have no issue with using them as feeders, i wouldnt feed them live just like i wouldnt feed mice live (unless its absolutely necessary). Even if its not legal in some states its essential to the survival of many reps and i highly doubt the departments would really care as long as its done sensibly.


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## gillsy (Jan 26, 2011)

And the fact you have the nerve to come along, after 2 weeks of being a member and accused people of stuff you know nothing about makes it worse.


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## Tiliqua (Jan 26, 2011)

Hiya,
I love skinks, I'e kept Lialis burtonis before and I'm a mate of Gillsy (Home run?). Burton's do only eat live lizards in the wild, with a lot of patience they can be weaned onto an unnatural diet of pinkies and mice tails, but it is a lot of finnicky work and not all will take to them. I doubt the varieties of Garden skink found about our suburbs are going to be listed as vulnerable or endangered anytime soon from feeding to captive reptiles. You've already sent a message to DECCW (who read this forum regularly anyway), what would you like them to do? Confiscate it and put it in a ballot and then be back to square one? Maybe freeze it because someone on here assumed it was wild caught and are not able to determine a locality release site? I'd rather it be in the hands of someone who knows the captive requirements of the species.


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## Stevo2 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes. Or was that No? I'm confused - you've reworded your question a couple of times now that either answer is now correct.

I think the real question should be; Should a species with such a restrictive care regime be kept in captivity in the first place? Yes or No will suffice.


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## scorps (Jan 26, 2011)

C.Bayo said:


> they may not be wild caught sorry i should not have said that .
> but a reptile keeper feeding retiles other then Asian house geckos which i have since found out by a few burton keepers in QLD is allowed.it is illegal wether difficult feeders or not and doesnt matter if he is up front in the add my point for this post was i think its very wrong to condone any reptile being used for a food source if you cant feed them on some thing else then you should keep them .
> i have emailed DECC with a copy of the add .


 
Have fun with that mate, what a *****


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## Tink90 (Aug 6, 2011)

*Tink90*

All reptiles a protected under the National parks and wildlife Act in NSW it is against the law to catch or take anything from it natural habitat, so if you are going to feed the Burtons Skinks then it probably best to find somewhere you can buy them so you can breed them yourself. I do believe that feeding them to Burtons alive is illegal as well and come under animal cruelty it like a person being put in with a lion on purpose the animal would be scare that's why in NSW all rats and mice that are used for feeding have to be killed humanely before being fed. I'm sure it will eat it just because it looks like a Skinks and i read somewhere that Burtons are mostly sight eaters so i'm sure it would still eat it. It would just need to be taught to eat pre-killed skinks. But i'm not against them eating them just the alive bit and taking them out of the wild that bothers me it alright to me if they are both in the wild a most of the time the animals don't see it coming and its over quickly. But that's just my opinion, oh i'm not sure what the laws are in other states so it probably best to find out.


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## -Peter (Aug 6, 2011)

No worries, I'll just feed them geckos from now on.


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## GeckPhotographer (Aug 6, 2011)

Sometimes. Although some might say rarely. The law takes common sense into its hands and when it puts an animal like this onto a first class license and allows people to keep them, even though there is no real viable alternative to feeding them. It turns into a grey area of the law in which the actions are illegal but unable to be prosecuted. 

As for the sensible question. Should this species be on a license in the first place, I think at the least it should be on class two and probably not at all. I also question strongly how Vermicella can be kept on license.


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## Waterrat (Aug 6, 2011)

4 pages of garbage ...... instead of spending time repeating your question about trivial issue you could have picked up the phone and asked those who know (your wildlife department).
Ah, it's Saturday. Lets hope that those Burtons won't die of hunger till Monday.


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## Tiliqua (Aug 6, 2011)

> I'm sure it will eat it just because it looks like a Skinks and i read somewhere that Burtons are mostly sight eaters so i'm sure it would still eat it.


Sigh... I read your post a few times and can't figure which alternate food item your recommending that looks like a skink? Also just because they can see it, doesn't mean they will eat it automatically anyway. A lot of frogs similarly won't take quickly to non-moving prey. 



> 4 pages of garbage ...... instead of spending time repeating your question about trivial issue you could have picked up the phone and asked those who know (your wildlife department)./QUOTE]
> Haha, totally agree with this. Could be worse though, could be another thread on green pythons lol


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## -Katana- (Aug 6, 2011)

I find it offensive that Troll Lad can't damn well spell skink.:lol:


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## ozziepythons (Aug 6, 2011)

I haven't read the 4 pages of posts on this thread. Basically my logic is this, if you have a reptile that eats nothing else but skinks, geckos or frogs and hates rodents, there is no physical barrier to stop you feeding the specimen what it wants. Force or assist feeding rodents isn't always a good option when the thing knows its food trigger. If its against the law keep quiet about it and feed your reptile. Talking about it on this forum is just trouble making. If you have the time and energy to argue, time well spent


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## killimike (Aug 8, 2011)

Resurrected thread!


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