# Murray Darling Carpet Pythons



## Scales03 (Apr 2, 2003)

Hi all, I was just wondering if anyone could either give me a site that has info on Murray Darling Carpet Pythons or post some general info on them, as i'm thinking of getting some.

Thanks


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 2, 2003)

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=morelia+spilota+metcalfei

Try a few of them links!


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## Gregory (Apr 2, 2003)

http://www.smuggled.com/auspyt4.htm

This is what Ray has to say about Pythons, Inlands included.


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## Whaa (Apr 2, 2003)

http://www.sambar.com.au/mark/pages/cs_carpetpython.htm

this site discusses carpet pythons in general but it also mentions each species individually.

Would I be right in assuming that the care for all carpet pythons is the same or not?


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## Nicole (Apr 2, 2003)

Nope, diamonds are technically carpets, but need different care.


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## Gregory (Apr 2, 2003)

why do you say that Nicole?


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## Nicole (Apr 2, 2003)

Diamonds have a lower prefered body temp, approx 28 degrees, and it is important to cool them at night. Diamond Python Syndrome is thought to be linked with keeping them too warm 24x7 and all year round. They also seem to have greater requirements of UVA&amp;B than other carpets.


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## Gregory (Apr 3, 2003)

Is Diamond Python Syndrome really recognised here in Australia or is it an American thing due to their severe low temps?
DPS is one of those things people could argue about here in Aus. Is it really a proven thing here? 

Cheers, Greg.


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## dan_lizard (Apr 3, 2003)

Greg,

I have heard of it happening here in Australia. It is nowhere near as common though....

I beleive one of the instances here was in Darwin, and it was possibly caused by the lack of lower temps....

DPS has been studied a lot, but I do not know if any defenite scientific fact has been proven.... &lt;Someone please correct me if I am wrong!>

Daniel


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 3, 2003)

Within their range,there is a notable variation in seasonal temps.Some summer days reach 33-35 degrees,and winter temps can drop to freezing (0 degrees) I dont think the severe cold weather contributes to DPS like you sugest but rather the opposite.I feel it is the constant high temps in ones enclosure that effects the diamond python.After all to successfully breed DP they must be cooled almost the the extent of hybernation.
The way I see it is night time temps are extremely cold in their natural range if we put this in effect when considering housing requirements NO NIGHT TIME HEATING should be used.As nicole has suggested I would keep them at lower temps (25-28 summer day time temp) But night time cooling is the biggest factor to succesfully keeping Diamonds IMHO.


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## Gregory (Apr 3, 2003)

Fair 'nuff


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## Artie (Apr 3, 2003)

One of the problems of DPS is definitely keeping them at constant high temps.
Heater off at night and let them hibernate in winter
One of the other big problems is obesity; Diamonds have to be kept lean.
My yearling gets a mouse every 3 weeks and when fully grown they should be on a big rat every four to five weeks.
Sunlight probably is also an important factor even though they are nocturnal.
They seem to like to come out and sunbake a bit.
I have an uvb light in my enclosure, which should help, but I?ll take her outside every chance I have.

Ps.
I submitted an article of DPS a while ago; it still is on the front of APS homepage.


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## Scales03 (Apr 4, 2003)

Thanks all for the info on Murry Darlings, lol even though it got a bit off topic but that's good cause i'm getting a diamond python very soon, so thanks for the info :wink:


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## Vat69 (Apr 5, 2003)

Ok, so I know I _always_ say this, but this thread hasn't had a differing opinion, so I thought I'd make one. I don't believe that there's a straight down the middle "No heat for diamonds at night" rule. My diamonds' enclosures don't retain their day-time temps at night, the ambient temp cools down because I use heat mats, but I still allow them the option of sitting on the heat when they need to. It's about them maintaining an optimal internal temperature, right? So if they're 'cold as' at night, how are they they able to obtain this? In the wild, if they found a nice, sun-warmed rock, they'd lay on it to digest a meal, they wouldn't seek out the coldest area they could.
I even know a breeder who doesn't cool his diamonds to a significant degree in winter, and still breeds them. His animals are well over 10yrs old and going strong. This is only _one_ case, I know, but it's still an example. And there's many many theories on what causes "DPS", and until I'd come to this site, I'd never heard of it being due to diamonds having a heat source at night.
Sorry to rant, but if you're a newbie, you need more than just one side of opinions.


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Lots of people use different ways of keeping DPs. and have success.
As far as DP syndrome goes nothing is 100% proven, everything is kinda speculation in a way.
I like to give my Snake every possible change to live a long and healthy life and go with the advise of some proven breeders and do what works for them for generations of breeding Diamonds.
The other thing is, if you live in Sydney, there is not always a warm rock at night to cuddle up to and it can get suddenly very cold for days, just like the last few days and that?s where Diamonds live.
The Guy I bought my Diamond from, keeps his outside all year with no heating at all and has been breeding them for3 generations. (In Sydney)
He even lets them hibernate in their first year (hatchlings), just like in nature.
Others do it after second or third year.
Everybody is different.
As fare as heat goes at night, there is a book called ?Keeping Carpet Pythons?
They should be kept at lower ambient temps. Day and night (with consideration of time of year)
And if kept at too high temp. for prolonged periods will shorten their life span.


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## Gregory (Apr 5, 2003)

This is why I challenged (nicely) Nicole's view on Diamonds. There is so many differing opinions on this and so many other aspects of Python husbandry. I didn't want to start any dramas but no one can say for certain that this is the absolute 100% correct way to keep Diamonds. Obviously here in Sydney you can keep them at similar temps to what is going on outside the house but to suggest that keeping them warmer at night is going to have an adverse affect on them is really a big call to make.


Cheers, Greg.


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## pythonss (Apr 5, 2003)

*murray darlings come diamonds.*

hi everyone.

like what has already been said the cause of dps has far from been proven. but what has been excepted by diamond breeders all over the world is that maybe there is at least 3 factors that can contribute to the problem.

1st over heating/ or failure to cool.
2nd lack of uv/or natural sunlight.
3rd over feeding.

which of the 3 is the most detramentle to diamond pythons is not yet evident.
however just let me give you this example.
we brought diamonds that were bred in the tropics in turn we breed these animals.
all of the animals would never have been cooled to the same extent as animals from south of us. We didnt have what we would call a sucseeful fertility rate which can be layed firmly at the feet of not getting the males cool enough prior to breeding..
But one thing that all of the animals did get were natural uv (all were kept out doors.) and they werent ready to breed at 3 years of age. they were grown at a lot slower rate than most diamonds. We have never seen dps up here, and im not saying it has never happened just that we havent seen it. given the area in which we live we should be a prime place for dps to be prevelant if you were to say that dps came from one single factor in there care.
In my opinion the bigest factor in keeping a health diamond is the uv factor. they really do alot better if they are kept out doors where they can bask in the sun at there lesure
And common scence will tell you that wintre cooling is also extremly important. they are a cool climate snake and mother nature has not given them there range in that climate for a joke. they are a dark coloured python this makes absorbtion of heat at a rapid rate very easy on cooler days.
just some thought..
cheers paul.


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## Whaa (Apr 5, 2003)

Artie said:


> And if kept at too high temp. for prolonged periods will shorten their life span.



Does this apply to anaresias aswell or just carpets?


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## Vat69 (Apr 5, 2003)

Artie, "And if kept at too high temp. for prolonged periods will shorten their life span." can't that be said for any species? Surely, if you keep any animal at a temp. that is too high for prolonged periods, it will be detrimental to it's health? :? Did you quote that from your book? Or is this your personal opinion?


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi Whaa!
That comment was refering to Diamond Pythons as it is suggested (but not proven) that constant high temps lead to Diamond Python Syndrome.

Edit:
As I stated earlier (IMO)I would recommend no heat at night,But this does not mean temps drop from 25 degrees to freezing,If you consider daytime lighting/heating requirements (say 14 hours light/heat in summer that leaves 10 hours without heat) The enclosure SLOWLY drops in temperature leaving the diamond to suffer absolute max coolness for a short period of time only,Before temps again rise to the daytime requirements. I was merely trying to clarify what nicole had tryed to say with a more in depth look to the reasons behind night time cooling.I wasnt trying to say that is the only contributor to DPS but 1 of a few possibilities.
No uvA+B lighting nor natural sunlight as well as overfeeding as Paul has suggested also contributes to DPS. (Well so it is speculated)


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## lutzd (Apr 5, 2003)

*question*

Ok - I've got a question...

Should I cool ALL my snakes overnight> 

I have two spotted pythons, 1 diamond and one olive. 

The overnight temperatures are not that cold here in Sydney, and I suspect that all but the olive should be cooled.

I guess my question is whether it will cause any HARM to cool them overnight. There seems to be some debate as to whether it is beneficial to cool overnight, but does anyone have any knowledge of it doing any harm.. :?: 

Any guidance folks.


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Whaa, as far as I know it only applies to Diamonds.
I think it?s because Diamonds are a cold climate Python (I believe the most cold adaptable Python in the world) and other Pythons are more tolerant to warmer climate.


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Vat 69, I did quote that from a book, but have also been told by other breeders>
I had some spotted Pythons and the warm end of my enclosure (on ground) was a constant 30-31degr. 7/24, which was normal for Antaresias, but would not be for Diamonds


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Cyber, I think I did mention in my previous posts somewhere that there are three suspected major reasons for DPS, and they were exactly the same as Paul just mentioned as well.
1st is over heating or failure to cool.
2nd is lack of uv/or natural sunlight.
3rd is over feeding (obesity)

As far as temps. go at night, I also mentioned, the Guy I got my Diamond keeps his outside (no heating) and advised me to have the nearest as possible to the Snake?s Sydney habitat, to have heating 8 to 9 hours on in summer. Roughly 4 hours in May, June middle of the day, July no heat at all, August/September four hours again.

Last feed in May, and then next feed in September.
Fresh Water and normal Daylight.
You notice the heat is on for a few hours for a couple of month, even when hibernating, that?s because even in winter we can have some warm days.
That?s about as close as one can get it to a reasonable habitat for a Dyamond Python that?s kept indoors.
So I was told and I am sticking to it. 
Cheers Artie


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi Cybre, in your last post to Whaa, you also mentioned my name, that?s why I directed my last mail to you.
I only just realised that you edited it out since.
A well never mind.
Cheers mate


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## Nicole (Apr 5, 2003)

Hey Artie,
Here's the sched I'm going by, this is "straight from the horses mouth" (lol) for want of a more flattering way to speak of such a sweet man. 


As far as cooling down Tiffany, this is the sort of regime I would
use.........but it's not a rule and everyone does' it differently. So it's
2 to 3 months without food !

How much heat does she get now........maybe 8 - 9 hours per day on ?

Winter heat will tend to be a bit less than 30 - 31 max (because the
ambient air will be 15 - 18 rather than 24 - 25 as in Summer), but she will
still want to be able to get her temp. up to this maximum by basking.

April:	8 to 9 hours per day (ie same as now)
May:	6 hours
June	5
July	4
August	6 - 7
Sept back to Summer timetable (8 or 9 hours)

Not sure why my spring warms up faster than my autumn cools down.........

Last feed:	late April, early May........but give her 10 days or so on full summer heat before turning to May timetable. She may even stop
feeding as the days get shorter and nights cooler. Don't worry if this
happens. 

First feed in spring: any time in August that she is hungry....i.e.
after you turn heat back to 6 - 7 hours per day.

Handling: No problem any time (I know you are a gently handler !)


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 5, 2003)

hi Artie 
Yes I had mentioned your name,it was a typo I made in error (sorry).I had erected the problem once I noticed it.I never ment my thread to be directed at anyone nor to start a debate or argument,I rather wrote it to educate those less in the know about DPS.Anyway no harm done I will now sack my receptionist/secretary without a reference and without 1 weeks notice,sick leave,annual leave or holliday pay as her typing skills were way off lol


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

:lol: Hey Cyber, don't be so mean to your secretary :lol:


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi Nicole, yeah it?s not all that much different from what Peter jot it down for me.
I just checked my notes again and it did say September 8/9 hours heat again.
As far as the four hours go, of course I?ll bring that down gradually.
Ruby is definitely a cold climate Diamond. Always hangs out at the cooler end, unless after feeding.
Cheers


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi Nic,
You and Artie mention 8-9 hrs heat during summer months.
Would this also include day light length? I thought id use same length as other carpets just lower temps.I am curious now as I had thought 14 hrs daylght AND heat (but lower temps) was sufficient!


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

No cyber, the days are longer, than the actual heating !


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## Nicole (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi CC!
Yep, what Artie said. Daylight is actually longer than the heating.
My girls are quite near a balcony door, glass wall to ceiling, so I don't actually need a day light, that takes care of itself, (with regular visits out into natural sunshine for UV of course).


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 5, 2003)

Ok kewl,
I have had this discussion atleast 20 times and always get diff answers,Ive been told to winter cool after there 1st year,told not to cool until 3 yrs old,been told less heat hours more heat hours etc etc etc. I personally havnt owned a diamond YET! but with the info I have I am sooooo confused.I post threads on behalf of what info I have read or been told and get many answers,questions in return and many other opinions diff to mine. Seems your regime is pretty much on the ball so I will have to write that down and use that as reference from now on.
So thanks for the information much appreciated!!!


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## Artie (Apr 5, 2003)

Hi Nic. Don?t you use uvb light?

Cyber, I reduce the light as the seasons go, I don?t think we have 14-hour days at the moment.


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## cyber_crimes (Apr 5, 2003)

I also adjust lighting to seasonal change,For most carpets I use
12-14hrs summer
10-12hrs autumn &amp; spring
8-10hrs winter


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## Nicole (Apr 6, 2003)

It's always good to get heaps of different takes on it and then decide which way you will go. I like getting heaps of ways and methods even if some are conflicting, all good stuff I say.  


Artie, no UV globe for Tiff, I think regular natural sunlight does her better.
There is a nice spot inside my other balcony door where I can open the door completely and have sunlight stream in, so even this morning I was able to pop her on her climbing perch in the sun, but still have her inside out of the wind.


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## Artie (Apr 6, 2003)

Sounds about what I do as well!


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## Vat69 (Apr 6, 2003)

Cyber: It's good that you've gotten many differing opinions, that's the only way to make a well rounded judgement. You can't just go off the first thing someone tells you.You'd be stuffed if they were wrong.Lol


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## Artie (Apr 6, 2003)

Hi Cyber, yes it can get quite confusing. Every one tells you something else, that?s why I like to stick with someone that has had nothing but success for many years.


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## Vat69 (Apr 6, 2003)

Ah, but Artie, what if someone else, with contrasting methods has equal success? Then what do you do?


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## Artie (Apr 6, 2003)

Nicole, I take Ruby out also, when possible, but sometimes it gets really hard, she is rapped around her branch under the uv all day, just loves it and really gets herself tangled up when I try to get her out. But when I succeed, she stays on the cloth line or lemon tree (no thorns) all day too if I let her.


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## Artie (Apr 6, 2003)

:lol: Well Vat, than I can pick and choose, as I have nothing to loose either way. :lol:


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## Nicole (Apr 6, 2003)

Same Artie, Tiff will stay put for hours on end and lap it up, but try and put any of the other girls in the sun and they wriggle around and are off and away before you can turn around... :lol:


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## Vat69 (Apr 6, 2003)

You out-witted me! Lol. I'll get you next time Gadget! :lol: :wink:


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## Nicole (Apr 6, 2003)

OMG Dr Claw and Mad Cat!
Erin, you rock, I seriously love your taste in telly!


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## Magpie (Apr 6, 2003)

Go Go Gadget keyboard. Just to add my 2c to this huge off topic discussion. My coastals love the sun as well, will stay out till they get all pepped up from being warm, then are a challenge to put back.  Don't know about the stimmies yet, they are a bit small for me to stick on a branch in the sun.


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## Vat69 (Apr 6, 2003)

I see that a kudos are in order for you too then Nic!Lol  
You know, it wasn't until late last year that I was told about the real messages behind Rodger Ramjet..I was a naieve child...Lol :lol:


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## Nicole (Apr 6, 2003)

Heeheehee where can I get me some of those proton energy pills? :lol:


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