# very annoyed



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

i have recently received my 2 jungles after my 2 week wait for my import license to be approved.
i payed for 2 black and white jungles advertised on herp trader about a month ago and he also sent me photos of the 2 he will send me and when i opened the box and noticed one was a honey colour and one was a yellow colour.
i called the guy today and he is trying to tell me when black and white jungles are born they are yellow and when they get older they become white..is this true??? i dont think so but please correct me if im wrong
he said he will send me another 2 he has but he keeps on saying they are never white and black but he has nice photos of them on herp trader he said he will send me the 2 that are advertised now 
and come to think of it they look like the same snake just in different positions.
so very annoyed 

i can take photos of the 2 i have now but not sure if im aloud to put the photos he emailed me up if i can please let me know and ill let you be the judge


----------



## Laghairt (Nov 27, 2010)

That sucks mate. I think Farma from this site had some B&W Jungles up for sale a while ago so maybe you could ask him about them changing colour as they get older.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

sorry taken from i phone and also didnt want to disturb them seeing they have been on a plane not long ago


----------



## richoman_3 (Nov 27, 2010)

The Herp Trader
are these the snakes on herp trader.
im not sure if they change colour, i doubt it...


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

they are 10 months old so you think maybe they would be a bit lighter in colour the 1st photo that jungle is a honey colour and is very placid the more yellow one is mental


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Nov 27, 2010)

This is a common problem with Black and White Jungles. Some people try and sell ugly Jungles as "Black and Whites", but unless they are black and white, it doesn't really make sense. This is why it is important to purchase from reputable breeders who have a reputation to maintain. "Ad" on here sometimes has true Black and Whites available.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah richoman i would love to know if i can show you the photos he emailed me of the 2 i was meant to get he is selling all his snakes and i said maybe you sent me the wrong box and he got angry at me for even saying that


----------



## Laghairt (Nov 27, 2010)

Yeah, they sure don't look like the Herptrader photos. I mean, the jungle in the second shot is clearly yellow and black. I know you must have been pretty excited about them arriving so it would have been a huge disappointment. Keep copies of all your correspondence with this bloke.



andrew_p said:


> View attachment 174039
> View attachment 174040
> 
> 
> sorry taken from i phone and also didnt want to disturb them seeing they have been on a plane not long ago


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah bryce has some very nice black and whites and he lives in sydney i missed out on his last 2 but he wont have any for a while
im just thinking maybe just get a full refund the guy is very anoying to talk to


----------



## Bryce (Nov 27, 2010)

Hey mate,

I breed them myself and just sold some to a guy on this site, they are not born yellow or a honey colour, mine are born black and white and stay that way.

Cheers

Bryce


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> yeah richoman i would love to know if i can show you the photos he emailed me of the 2 i was meant to get he is selling all his snakes and i said maybe you sent me the wrong box and he got angry at me for even saying that



Can you link the original ad?


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah i have done i always do and yeah he said for me to send them back and he will give me the 2 one on herp trader but i said i would of been happy with the original 2 that you showed me but they are nothing like the once i have received even the head markings are different


----------



## richoman_3 (Nov 27, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Can you link the original ad?


 
i tried put it just comes up as the herp trader.
looks like its the 3rd ad.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah bryce i was spewing i missed out on the last 2 you had for sale about 2 months ago its been so anoying haha i might just give up on black and whites


----------



## Bez84 (Nov 27, 2010)

Black and white jungles are just that...black and white, sometimes one colour is stronger then the other but they aint yellow!


----------



## Laghairt (Nov 27, 2010)

Make sure you keep the photos and also try to get him to admit things in writing if you can. It really annoys me when this kind of thing happens. My wife is a solicitor so I could probably get her to give you a hand drafting a letter if it comes to that.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

photos he sent me


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

i think ill send him photos of the snakes i have received and the snakes i was meant to receive


----------



## Bez84 (Nov 27, 2010)

Even though the photos you took were low quality when compared to the photos he sent you, anyone can clearly see that the animals dont match.
You paid for diamonds and got quartz.


----------



## dickyknee (Nov 27, 2010)

That second photo looks like its been edited to black and white in photo shop to me .....


----------



## Laghairt (Nov 27, 2010)

Yeah dicky they both look like they've been photo shopped to me. Andrew don't let this guy get away with ripping you off mate.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah this guy is just very hard to talk to i have sent him a email with photos he sent me and photos of what i go and said send me the snakes in the photos that are pure black and white or just refund my money lets see how this goes


----------



## AM Pythons (Nov 27, 2010)

mate its the same guy selling the 'RPM' for 2500, its a jungle cross darwin...imo... be carefull who you buy off


----------



## Belial (Nov 27, 2010)

Sorry if i missed something but the guy who you got them from- Name/Site/details? 
..If that's allowed..


----------



## Wookie (Nov 27, 2010)

You got scammed mate.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah the guy seemed ok and he has no problems with me sending them back the snakes are very healthy no scars and look well fed just not the colours i payed for


----------



## AM Pythons (Nov 27, 2010)

RPM..? come on..


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

nah im not aloud to give out names if i could i would tho


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah i saw that add and thought im only new to this and i know that aint a RPM


----------



## Belial (Nov 27, 2010)

Bugger, i dont wanna be ripped off either - i mean really who would wanna - i guess ill put off buying for longer =[

Sorry thats happened btw - i hate being ripped off - =\

All the best.


----------



## Bez84 (Nov 27, 2010)

Personally i wouldnt be asking for replacement snakes id just want to get my refund and send the ones i recieved back.
Once someone trys to make you a fool you dont deal with them anymore.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah im thinking i might just tell him not to worry and try my luck with colin if he doesnt sell them all before i get in or even if bryce has a few people pull out from his sales


----------



## AM Pythons (Nov 27, 2010)

Bez84 said:


> Personally i wouldnt be asking for replacement snakes id just want to get my refund and send the ones i recieved back.
> Once someone trys to make you a fool you dont deal with them anymore.



+1


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 27, 2010)

How much did you pay?


----------



## Ozzie Python (Nov 27, 2010)

mate i'd be spitting chips if i was given them as b&w's. I'd be asking for a refund plus freight costs and sending them back, alternatively i'd be in the car on a road trip. 

if you want quality julattens hit colin or ad up for a pair of hatchies if they have them available and get some stunners.


----------



## evilj (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> nah im not aloud to give out names if i could i would tho


 
Your not allowed to publicly give them out. PM is fine though.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

i have already spoken to colin ill have to ask ad but yeah he is in brissy and im in syd so no road trip i got them both for 1000 to sydney so yeah im not happy at all


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah if you pm me ill give you names but there is no real point in my opinion unless you know the guy and you can give him a doubble uppercut to the face for me haha


----------



## Scleropages (Nov 27, 2010)

Wow that really sucks , I hope you get a refund


----------



## Colin (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> i have recently received my 2 jungles after my 2 week wait for my import license to be approved.
> i payed for 2 black and white jungles advertised on herp trader about a month ago and he also sent me photos of the 2 he will send me and when i opened the box and noticed one was a honey colour and one was a yellow colour.
> i called the guy today and he is trying to tell me when black and white jungles are born they are yellow and when they get older they become white..is this true???



sorry to hear that happened to you andrew.. B&W jungles dont start off "yellow" and turn B&W.. they hatch out (before first shed a silvery grey) this is what a B&W Julatten jungle hatchie looks like pre first shed and the third pic is the same B&W jungle (in pic 1) several sheds later. cheers


----------



## Scleropages (Nov 27, 2010)

Wow they look awesome right out of the egg! can't wait for mine to hatch!


----------



## evilj (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> yeah if you pm me ill give you names but there is no real point in my opinion unless you know the guy and you can give him a doubble uppercut to the face for me haha


 

haah this i can manage  

We know to stay away from him though.


----------



## Colin (Nov 27, 2010)

this one and above are last years.. Im waiting on a few clutches to hatch very soon..
another one pre first shed


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Nov 27, 2010)

Yep, from both of his photos you can see he's just pulled the colour out. That's why he photographed them on a plain background - looks like a white pillow. He has clearly misrepresented them, and modified the photos to ensure the sale. Tell him ALL funds to be returned to your bank (including the cost of returning them (don't forget you'll need an EXPORT permit this time as well!) before you send them back, or you'll be lodging a claim with the Ministry of Fair Trading. The only problem is you may need to do that in the small claims court in Qld, where you actually established the contract to purchase. I had a problem with a Brisbane based removalist who caused us huge grief when we moved from Perth to NSW, and we had to lodge in Qld. We won though! After all your costs, you'll be out of pocket for at least $1100, too much money to fork out to a sheister.

Keep ALL documentation, including emails if you have them, and diarise all phone conversations. It may not come to that, but better to be prepared than not...

I couldn't recommend a more conscientious breeder than our moderator here, Colin, been to his place heaps of times, his snakes are second to none, and looked after fanatically well. Jamie. thanks jamie


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

well if anyone is buying from brissy ill give you his name...i think we should have a name and shame wall on here haha...but dont think it would work
yeah colin now you just rubbing it in haha but yeah mate i would love to own one of those bad boys 
not rubbing it in mate, just showing you what a B&W julatten looks like from the egg pre first shed.. 
no "yellow" there as you can see


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah thanks for the advise pythoninfinite ill give national parks a call on monday and tell them the problem i have and see what they say hope its not another 2 week wait these poor snakes need a home 
so i cant just send them back even though i have a import license for 1 month


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Nov 27, 2010)

Nope, you need to export them out of NSW, but if you hit NPWS on a good day and explain the situation, they may smile upon you...

Jamie


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 27, 2010)

That sucks mate, I'd be wanting a refund not more dodgy animals.


----------



## Sel (Nov 27, 2010)

Make sure you get your refund before sending anything back..and do it fast. My guess would be, hes already spending your money..


----------



## phantomreptiles (Nov 27, 2010)

Geck82 said:


> That sucks mate, I'd be wanting a refund not more dodgy animals.



+1

I sent a PM to get the name as I do buy in Brissy sometimes - there are dodgy people out there!!!


----------



## cturbosa (Nov 27, 2010)

there deffently is i was also riped of earlyer in the year for 2600 from a guy in barnsdale, cops are of no use at all. im still waiting for cival court to happen, mine is clear cut case something ment to be sent regested never got tracking number and person never even had the items. it is way to easy for people to rip people of and way way to hard to recover your money and get people what the deserve


----------



## Pythons Rule (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> View attachment 174043
> View attachment 174044
> 
> 
> photos he sent me



these photo's have been manipulated in a photo program and the hole pic is changed to black and white to make these animals appear black and white.

so dodgy....

also b&w hatchies are black and grey and gradually get whiter with age. but like all jungles get duller/creamish after 2-3years of age.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah i was sure i have seen hatchies that were black and white he is just a scammer i hope i get a refund if not looks like ill be making a trip up north


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

andrew_p said:


> well if anyone is buying from brissy ill give you his name...i think we should have a name and shame wall on here haha...but dont think it would work
> yeah colin now you just rubbing it in haha but yeah mate i would love to own one of those bad boys
> not rubbing it in mate, just showing you what a B&W julatten looks like from the egg pre first shed..
> no "yellow" there as you can see


yeah mate i know i was just having a joke and im very jelous of your black and whites they look unreal looks like all your hard work pays off in the end


----------



## gavgav (Nov 27, 2010)

i guess thats the risk you have when buying from out of state, thats the reason im going to be meeting up with colin next year to pick up my black and white hatching


----------



## pythrulz (Nov 27, 2010)

Andew dont have any jungles but buying some very soon both the B&G and B&W and the ones in the photos are definatly not B&W they cant change from yellow to black there are some very reliable jungle breeders on this site


----------



## aussie-albino (Nov 27, 2010)

Yeah not good mate get a refund. Stunning python Colin I'll have to get my name on a couple of those this year spectacular.

cheers
Scott


----------



## giglamesh (Nov 27, 2010)

those pics he sent you have been uploaded to this site previously in a show off thread, i remember someone picked up on them being photo shopped, so i presume the seller is also a member of this site


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 27, 2010)

yeah well if he is on here and looking at this thread he will notice that im not losing my cool over this but i would like a refund if he is just gonna photo shop his snakes
yeah im hoping someone has room for me on the waiting list i was asking back when i first joined and it was to late all the waiting list were full


----------



## cracksinthepitch (Nov 27, 2010)

This whole situation sucks. Unfortunatly they can only see dollar signs and will do anything to get it. those jungles coming outta the eggs are amazing, such beautiful colour. Good luck with it mate.


----------



## Bryce (Nov 28, 2010)

Andrew P,

I will have some more soon mate, email me and we can chat.

Bryce


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 28, 2010)

pm sent bryce
thanks everyone for all the support you have been great helps knowing there are still alot of genuine people about in the herp world just a shame there is a few scum bags ruining it all for the new people like me.
Oh well ill keep everyone informed on how this pans out. looks like a big day tomorrow alot of phone calls to make

thanks andrew


----------



## Guest (Nov 28, 2010)

B&W means black and white, with age they can get a yellowish or grey tinge in the black markings but what you got are clearly not B&W jungles 
This is one of the reasons i never buy anything without seeing pics but in this case the bloke has outright lied to you!


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 28, 2010)

thats what i was hoping than he feeds me this bull so i thought hmm maybe i should check. very nice b&w mate if you got a spare pair let me know haha

thanks andrew


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 29, 2010)

ok kinda good news he has agreed to give me a refund but only the 1000 i paid he will not pay for export license or shipping so thats prob about 100 out of pocket but its better than 1000 out of pocket

thanks andrew


----------



## Smithers (Nov 29, 2010)

Glad to hear your getting your G back,...sad to hear he's not footing the extra costs since he flat out lied. I'd be writing a letter to the reptile authorities in your state and document what has happened maybe they will do a spot check on this fella and might come up with extra anomalies that may stamp him out of the trade. Pitty there's not a name and shame page for this kinda behaviour. Best of luck with your future purchases can't see you getting any trouble now  good to see others rallying around for you.


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 29, 2010)

He should be refunding the whole lot, what a scumbag, at least you got something though mate. It would be great if you could name and shame on here but I guess they have these rules in place for a reason.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah its good having all this support and advise but yeah i spoke to reptile authorities here and i asked if i could send it back without a export license and they said no and if i wanted to do it faster i have to pay 60 instead of 30 bux to get an "express" export license i explained the story to them they didnt really care she just said ohh thats no good......NOW GIVE ME MONEY hahaha nah she didnt really care at all


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah i wont post his name up but if you buying snakes from qld ask me for his name in a pm just to check its not him


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 29, 2010)

Yeah NSW DECC are hopeless, we get charged ridiculous prices and get the worst service of any state.


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah trading hours are 930 to 1230......


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 29, 2010)

What more can you say.....


----------



## andrew_p (Nov 29, 2010)

i asked her why such a small time frame to call up and she said we have to turn the phone off to get all the work done. oh well im sure the money goes somewhere good


----------



## Smithers (Dec 1, 2010)

Same tricks are being displayed on same website by same seller of those fakes you got Andrew,..shame some poor bugger will probably get the same lies....sad


----------



## Gecko :) (Dec 2, 2010)

Andrew,.
I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience.
Unfortunately there are alot of scumbags out there!

Has he agreed to refund your money before you send them back?
What was that? he has decided to refund your $1000 ,.. & you can keep both Pythons? ...gee what a nice guy  

In all seriousness though,. surely this guy cant get away with this?


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 2, 2010)

yeah it is a shame that some one will get tricked like me and i wish i could stop it all i can do is respond to all the pms i have been getting haha but yeah he will give me 1000 back and ill send the snakes back to him the next day..altho...haha nah i couldnt do that to some one i wouldnt be able to sleep at night
and sorry to say he can get away with it unless i take the matter up with fair trading..i think ill just cut my losses and move along from this scum bag

thanks andrew


----------



## Laghairt (Dec 2, 2010)

So has he sent your money yet? Do you think he really will?


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 2, 2010)

nah he said wait untill the export licence is cleared and yeah im hoping he will as wehn i called him he said yeah no worries and he understands but he doesnt understand when i ask for a refund for all cost involved in his shonky scam

thanks andrew


----------



## Laghairt (Dec 2, 2010)

Keep the pressure on him mate, don't let him sense weakness or you will find you never get your money.


----------



## JAS101 (Dec 2, 2010)

i wouldnt send anything back until the $$$ is in your account . even then id send him the money - the permit and shipping fee`s .


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 3, 2010)

yeah i wont be untill the money is in but yeah i have a feeling ill be pushing my luck getting the shipping and licence money back like what i said before ill just take it on the chin its alot better than paying 1000 for very ordinary jungles

thanks andrew


----------



## Smithers (Dec 8, 2010)

How's it going Andrew any luck yet mate?


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 12, 2010)

no luck as of yet guys he said he will refund me no problems but no money in bank yet so ill call him wednesday to chase him up..my god this has been a bad couple of weeks for me haha oh well it could be worse


thanks andrew


----------



## tigerbudgie (Dec 14, 2010)

dude you got conned they're standard jungles. i got lucky when i bought my jungle off of there i actually made them bring the snakes to my place personally so i could inspect them. i got ripped off a little but it was my first snake so i didn't know better.


----------



## Jeannine (Dec 15, 2010)

*have u thought of contacting the site where he advertises these snakes and let them know? maybe they will pull his ad and not let him do it again

never know unless you ask

maybe mention that if the money isn't in the bank by Thursday you will be seeking some legal advice, might kick him where it doesn't hurt and move him along
*


----------



## AUSGECKO (Dec 15, 2010)

Jeannine said:


> [
> maybe mention that if the money isn't in the bank by Thursday you will be seeking some legal advice, might kick him where it doesn't hurt and move him along
> [/B]


 Maybe just simple beating and kicking may do? I hear QLD is nice this time of year mate.


----------



## kupper (Dec 15, 2010)

I plan on paying a member of this site a visit shortly for a money sent mo animals received situation 

2 for 1 andrew ???? :lol:


----------



## Red-Ink (Dec 15, 2010)

kupper said:


> I plan on paying a member of this site a visit shortly for a money sent mo animals received situation
> 
> 2 for 1 andrew ???? :lol:


 
Mate that sucks, hope you get compensation and a resolve either which way


----------



## Virides (Dec 15, 2010)

From a compositing point of view when it comes to images being changed to B&W...

Personally, I would take a very good close look at the images. There are ways to tell if an image has been altered from colour to black and white.

1. Chromatic Aberation (this is the kind of green/pinky shift in colour on edges of high contrast) If there is no appearance of this, then it has been altered.

2. Global Illumination is where colour from one source adds colour to another surface. Eg. If you put an egg onto a green table, there will be a cast of green from the table onto the egg's surface, making the egg appear greenish where it is affected. If the image is black and white, you will see no colour bleeding. Given that this photo appears to have been shot on a white sofa, then only point 1 can be checked at this point.

3. If you have the ability to do so, if you check the colour make up of the image itself, greys will always show in RGB as eg, 150 150 150 (+/- a couple of points due to colour management profiling). If there was colour in the shot, even a grey would appear as 146 157 150 (this would represent the casts of colour from light sources or other surfaces).

4. Most homes have fluorescent lights, and without colour correction, will always give the image a green tinge. 

Only a professional can compensate for all these anomolies.

I understand that not all people can know this or check this, but atleast by knowing, you have a better chance of not being scammed.


If you are concerned about a post and are not sure, drop me a PM and I will check it out for you


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 19, 2010)

thanks for the tips guys still no money ill be calling him again this week and put the hard word on him
as for the site judy has been helping me out as much as she can i without jeopardizing my money by annoying the seller
and yeah i would love a trip up to qld rite about now but from previous experiences violence never resolves anything its just a quick fix if thatts what your implying haha
and as for photo shop i should of shown my missus earlier as she is a graphic designer and she said you can tell the pic is a little sus haha stupid me
oh well ill one day ill get the black and whites im after

thanks andrew


----------



## Smithers (Dec 19, 2010)

Feel for ya mate,..he's draggin this one out,...good luck.


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 19, 2010)

i informed him that the export licence runs out on the 30th so if that expires the S_ _T will hit the fan

cheers


----------



## AUSGECKO (Dec 19, 2010)

Hope it all works out, he is most likely waiting to re-sell them and get you to send directly to the new buyer and he will also have the money then from the sale.


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 19, 2010)

yeah lets hope so


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 23, 2010)

no luck guys the scum bag is not going to give me my money back hope he gets whats coming for him
anyhow i still have 2 very nice jungles but arnt what i want so ill put them up for sale after chrissy
thanks everyone for you support every one has been great
thanks to judy from herp trader for helping me out to try sort it out

andrew


----------



## Jay84 (Dec 23, 2010)

Thats disgusting, i really feel sorry for you buddy 

Maybe that seller can be banned from herptrader?


----------



## AUSGECKO (Dec 23, 2010)

Sorry to hear that mate, unfortunately I can't write what I think of people who do this kind of thing.


----------



## andrew_p (Dec 23, 2010)

yeah its a shame oh well could be worse 
judy warned him so i think she will probably ban him now but ill leave that up to her he has used the site before and never had problems with him 

andrew


----------



## Smithers (Jan 24, 2011)

Hey Andrew,

With a current thread running on A hole breeders It triggered me to think of your bad experience.....It's been a month since your last update...How's things going with your bum deal??


----------



## gavgav (Jan 24, 2011)

He has them forsale on the forum with a encloser setup 
Think he has no luck with the *** of a seller that sold the jungles to him


----------



## Smithers (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh Crap  there should be a name n shame page to warn others, how come we can only put up our good experiences and praise the seller and not the bad ones,.....Cheers Gav


----------



## andrew_p (Jan 24, 2011)

yeah well i have had no luck the only response i got was that he is a very successful businessman and he has no reason to rip me off....well end of the day he did rip me off he also name droped a few names and he knows a few people on this website and apparently i have given him a bad name...if you ask me he deserves it im just lucky i stopped one of his sales i had someone give me a name and it was his name and the aps member told me he would no longer go ahead with the sale so
so yeah its very annoying and i have been left out of pocket oh well things could be worse, im very lucky i dont live in qld or vic with all those poor people losing everything and for all i know he may of been one of those people as he lives near brissy

thanks andrew


----------

