# Is it Eastern Brown or Coastal Taipan??



## Kylesg11 (Oct 29, 2008)

Hi is anyone able to identify this snake for me. I found it in my backyard yesterday and have been searching for an answer but at this stage I'm not sure if it's an Eastern Brown or a Coastal Taipan? Any help is appreciated
Hope the photos are big enough!


----------



## serpenttongue (Oct 29, 2008)

Eastern Brown Snake.


----------



## saratoga (Oct 29, 2008)

Clearly an Eastern Brown Snake from the head shape and body scalation.


----------



## herpkeeper (Oct 29, 2008)

eastern brown for sure !


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Oct 29, 2008)

Not another Eastern Brown VS Tiapan thread LOL... but yeah ditto the above.


----------



## iceman (Oct 29, 2008)

this is what a coastal taipan looks like.


----------



## Kylesg11 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks for the quick replys everyone sorry if it's a common thread I did try and search before I did it but the last thread I read everyone was undecided. Now I just have to teach my 4 yo how to have a healthy respect for our new reptile friend


----------



## saratoga (Oct 29, 2008)

Iceman...you should post that photo in the other thread......we have a unanimous decision here!


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Oct 29, 2008)

Kylesg11 said:


> Thanks for the quick replys everyone sorry if it's a common thread I did try and search before I did it but the last thread I read everyone was undecided. Now I just have to teach my 4 yo how to have a healthy respect for our new reptile friend


 No not that it's common just the debate in the last thread lol.


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Oct 29, 2008)

Ha ha, should I? .... Nah, Eastern Brown mate.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 29, 2008)

The gold coast bulletin bought out a poster " COASTAL KILLER " pics of the coastal taipan was a eastern brown, the common death adder was a tiger snake and the spotted black was a colletts snake, Ive kept the poster to show people that know little about our Australian species of snakes and how easy it is to miss identify.

Im sure if it was i and had little experience with reptiles i could make the same mistake, at the end of the day where only human.
cheers steve


----------



## Kylesg11 (Oct 29, 2008)

My mum actually just sent me the proper head shots from one of her snake books - of both snakes with makes it easier to identify them as per their scales. I'm just glad I got a photo to be able to identify it. Thanks again


----------



## iceman (Oct 29, 2008)

what thread is that saratoga ???


----------



## dragons75 (Oct 29, 2008)

Wood ford blue mountains ? If so we dont get taipans around here and with this weather im suprised we get anything


----------



## Kylesg11 (Oct 29, 2008)

woodford QLD - North of Brissie - I'm on 3/4 of an acre just out of town with a lot of bushland at the back of block so was expecting something. Just wanted to know what


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

Another name for your coastal tiapan up your way is The Eastern Brown. I just finished a venemous snake handling course and the herpetologist mentioned this to us.


----------



## JasonL (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> Another name for your coastal tiapan up your way is The Eastern Brown. I just finished a venemous snake handling course and the herpetologist mentioned this to us.



What the?????????? How can you do such a course without being able to spell venomous... and the info is totally wrong.


----------



## Rainbow-Serpent (Oct 30, 2008)

Eastern Brown.


----------



## saratoga (Oct 30, 2008)

I think it's important for snake handlers to be aware of alternative names for snakes in their areas as some of these "other" names are well entrenched. Common names can be very confusing and misleading but I still think they are worth knowing. 

Although I'm not from Queensland I have never heard of Eastern Brown being used as an alternative name for the Taipan(except in cases of misidentity as has happened on several threads here lately!) I have heard Taipans called "Traveller Browns" before. Just out of interest.....Taipan means something like big boss man and is apparently used quite a bit in parts of asia for "important" businessmen(if there is such a thing!).


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

JasonL said:


> What the?????????? How can you do such a course without being able to spell venomous... and the info is totally wrong.


 Why is this info totaly wrong. And yes, I did do a snake handling course recently.and was told that some people call the coastal tiapan the eastern brown. Ok, so I spelt venomous wrong, so what. So, what sort of snake do you think it is? I have another way of telling what sort of snake this is, and it isn't by scale count. I'm curious to know what sort of snake you think this is? Cheers Carol.


----------



## dpeica (Oct 30, 2008)

JasonL said:


> What the?????????? How can you do such a course without being able to spell venomous... and the info is totally wrong.



How dare you question the knowledge of two day experts. shame..


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm not a 2 day expert on snakes, because I just joined a couple of days ago.


----------



## ryanharvey1993 (Oct 30, 2008)

dpeica said:


> How dare you question the knowledge of two day experts. shame..


 
:lol::lol::lol: oh and it is a brown not a taipan


----------



## JasonL (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> So, what sort of snake do you think it is? I have another way of telling what sort of snake this is, and it isn't by scale count. I'm curious to know what sort of snake you think this is? Cheers Carol.



It's clearly one of these....


----------



## hodges (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> Why is this info totaly wrong. And yes, I did do a snake handling course recently.and was told that some people call the coastal tiapan the eastern brown. Ok, so I spelt venomous wrong, so what. So, what sort of snake do you think it is? I have another way of telling what sort of snake this is, and it isn't by scale count. I'm curious to know what sort of snake you think this is? Cheers Carol.




It's clearly not one of these


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> :lol::lol::lol: oh and it is a brown not a taipan[/quote=Carol. Oh, It looks like a Tiapan to me, Could even be a Mulga snake, do you think?:lol:


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> ryanharvey1993 said:
> 
> 
> > :lol::lol::lol: oh and it is a brown not a taipan[/quote=Carol. Oh, It looks like a Tiapan to me, Could even be a Mulga snake, do you think?:lol:
> ...


----------



## Dannymh (Oct 30, 2008)

I wish I could meet a female snake wrangler that is...hot, the entire situation cries out for a pick up line.....want to wrangle my snake?

off topic I know but still.

My complete lack of knowledge says Eastern Brown, for two reasons.

It looks a hell a lot like the snake I had at my place yesterday and you just do not get taipans in Hervey bay, so unless the one around my pool is a rare taipan up here then logic tells me the picture is an Eastern Brown.

Hows that.....did I pass?


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

You don't even get taipans where you are meant to get taipans. I'd call them the most elusive of our dangerous snakes.


----------



## Dannymh (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> You don't even get taipans where you are meant to get taipans. I'd call them the most elusive of our dangerous snakes.



Bloody cheeky snakes, how dare they be so elusive!


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

Another way to tell the difference between an Eastern Brown and a Tiapan is eye colouring. The Tiapan has an orange coloured eye surrounding the pupil and eye's are wider than the eatern brown. The Tiapan has a cream colour on the lower heed leading up to the nose, where as the eastern brown has a browner shade on lower head near mouth leading up to the nose. The eastern brown has brown coloured eyes, surrounding the pupil, unlike the tiapan which has orange colourings around it's eye. And, yes, we did do identification of various snakes on the day. It still looks like a tiapan to me.


----------



## JasonL (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> It still looks like a tiapan to me.



Go and ask for a refund.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> You don't even get taipans where you are meant to get taipans. I'd call them the most elusive of our dangerous snakes.


=carol. We don't get Tiapans here in Melbourne, but you do get them through the top end of NSW and Queensland, also through the top end of the northern territory, moving towards the top end of western ausralia, along the coast line more.


----------



## Dannymh (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> =carol. We don't get Tiapans here in Melbourne, but you do get them through the top end of NSW and Queensland, also through the top end of the northern territory, moving towards the top end of western ausralia, along the coast line more.




That is what the books say, but I can tell you that speaking to one of the old Reptile park owners up here, they reckon they have heard of only 2 and only one confirmed in the bay, and that was in a pallet of wood that had just been delivered from elsewhere


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> Another way to tell the difference between an Eastern Brown and a Tiapan is eye colouring. The Tiapan has an orange coloured eye surrounding the pupil and eye's are wider than the eatern brown. The Tiapan has a cream colour on the lower heed leading up to the nose, where as the eastern brown has a browner shade on lower head near mouth leading up to the nose. The eastern brown has brown coloured eyes, surrounding the pupil, unlike the tiapan which has orange colourings around it's eye. And, yes, we did do identification of various snakes on the day. It still looks like a tiapan to me.



If you really think it's a taipan that's great but it's not. Eye colour is not a good indicator of species as the tones can change depending on the environments colour, skin colour is not a good indicator of species either, both eastern browns, western browns and taipans can have the same skin colour including the nose being creamy coloured. 

About the only thing that can truly set an eastern brown from a taipan (if you can't tell from general appearance) without having to do scale counts is that they have keeled scales and browns don't.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

JasonL said:


> Go and ask for a refund.


=carol. I don't want a refund.


----------



## Dannymh (Oct 30, 2008)

I am going to settle this once and for all.

It is quite clearly a Natural Confectionery company snake, someone mixed the red orange and yellows together....it turned out brown


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

I will give my herpetologist a call. He has been handling and caring for reptiles for 35 years. His travelled all over australia and overseas with his reptile shows. He was also the first in identifying a new desease accuring in snakes. Anyone interested, go to his website which is www.snakebusters.com.au Cheers Carol.


----------



## Kersten (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm reminded of the old saying about the proof being in the pudding.


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> I will give my herpetologist a call. He has been handling and caring for reptiles for 35 years. His travelled all over australia and overseas with his reptile shows. He was also the first in identifying a new desease accuring in snakes. Anyone interested, go to his website which is www.snakebusters.com.au Cheers Carol.



BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!ONE ONE one 

C'mon now Carol, who are you really???


----------



## MrSpike (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> I will give my herpetologist a call. He has been handling and caring for reptiles for 35 years. His travelled all over australia and overseas with his reptile shows. He was also the first in identifying a new desease accuring in snakes. Anyone interested, go to his website which is www.snakebusters.com.au Cheers Carol.



And that right there explains why you are just so so wrong...


----------



## ecosnake (Oct 30, 2008)

A very nice eastern brown right there


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> If you really think it's a taipan that's great but it's not. Eye colour is not a good indicator of species as the tones can change depending on the environments colour, skin colour is not a good indicator of species either, both eastern browns, western browns and taipans can have the same skin colour including the nose being creamy coloured.
> 
> About the only thing that can truly set an eastern brown from a taipan (if you can't tell from general appearance) without having to do scale counts is that they have keeled scales and browns don't.


= Carol. I wouldn't think that a snakes eyes would suddenly become smaller because of different habitats. The taipan's eye's are wider than the eastern brown's. Colour changes, yes, as in our tiger snakes we have here in Melbourne are different colouring to your island tiger snakes, which are black tigers.


----------



## Minka (Oct 30, 2008)

Carol = Fool


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> = Carol. I wouldn't think that a snakes eyes would suddenly become smaller because of different habitats. The taipan's eye's are wider than the eastern brown's. Colour changes, yes, as in our tiger snakes we have here in Melbourne are different colouring to your island tiger snakes, which are black tigers.



Rightio, I didn't comment on eye size changing in differnt habitats....

Now c'mon, which ex-member are you?


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

Minka said:


> Carol = Fool



No no, give her a chance.

Carol + Hoser = fool :lol:


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!ONE ONE one
> 
> C'mon now Carol, who are you really???


 I am a qualified snake handler, and have been reading the reseach of one of our top herpetologists in Australia. He runs snake and reptile courses throughout ausralia, i have been issued with my snake handling certificate by him. We learnt about snake identification, capturing and handling of our venemous snakes. Breeding and keeping of reptiles and snakes, etc. If your interested go to his website www.snakebusters.com.au and have a read. Cheers Carol.


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> I am a qualified snake handler, and have been reading the reseach of one of our top herpetologists in Australia. He runs snake and reptile courses throughout ausralia, i have been issued with my snake handling certificate by him. We learnt about snake identification, capturing and handling of our venemous snakes. Breeding and keeping of reptiles and snakes, etc. If your interested go to his website www.snakebusters.com.au and have a read. Cheers Carol.



His snakes are anything but venomous... For a qualified snake handler, you really don't know alot. Does your certificate read 'Qualified Venomoid Snake Handler'? :lol:


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

I am no ex-member to this site.


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> I am no ex-member to this site.



Ah well i'm over it. Please don't go giving advice out to anyone.


----------



## idontlikeurmango (Oct 30, 2008)

Just putting this out there.

Perhaps instead of bickering and ridiculing - one could educate and maybe start a thread with how to accurately identify vens with pics etc and make it a sticky. Since there are so many experts on here (myself excluded) it shouldn't be hard to do this.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> His snakes are anything but venomous... For a qualified snake handler, you really don't know alot. Does your certificate read 'Qualified Venomoid Snake Handler'? :lol:


= carol. Your point being? His the one making a lot of money from what he does, not you.


----------



## Snakebuster (Oct 30, 2008)

Eastern Brown Snake, they are the world second most venomous snake in the world.


----------



## ryanharvey1993 (Oct 30, 2008)

carol I dont think you should be giving out the advice seeing that you cant even spell taipan


----------



## Kurama (Oct 30, 2008)

Carol, ill give you some free advice...Give up


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> = carol. Your point being? His the one making a lot of money from what he does, not you.



Ok i said i was over it but he's making heaps of money...

FROM TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!! BAHahahahahahaha!!!!111one ONE

You really aren't a very good poster child for the guy lol, look at what he taught you! An eastern brown and a taipan the same thing :shock: :O?? Or is it that a taipan is a brown and a brown is a taipan?


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 30, 2008)

No no really i'm out now... I'll get into trouble soon.


----------



## DarkSpartan (Oct 30, 2008)

thats definitely a nice EBS, I havent seen one around here for a long time though i do see a few Red bellies. which is most likely the reason.


----------



## saratoga (Oct 30, 2008)

Hi Carol

completing a "snake handling course" should be just the start of a very steep learning curve. It takes years to become a skillful handler and fully competant with identification. The course will only give you the very basics.

I think it is very dangerous for people having completed these course to assume they are now qualified to tackle just about anything and unfortunately many people come out of these courses and appear to be instant experts. Handling a snake in a room or on an open grassy area is completely different to dealing with an angry snake in a confined space.

Have a look at some of the recent threads concerning ID's. Many people are jumping in very authoritively IDing snakes and often they are clearly wrong. Anyone can make a mistake but many are so damn adamant that they are correct it is dangerous...and these seem to be all newcomers!

Anyone can key out a snake in the hand or a dead specimen from looking at scales etc but often when catching a snake you wont get a good look at the whole thing...you may just see a part of its body.......or its scales........and you really should be able to tell just from that! 

Birdwatchers talk about the "jizz" of a bird......nothing in particular...but perhaps the way it flies or flits around, general size, whatever......after a while you get the same feeling for identifying snakes, at least the common ones.

I would like to do a course some day...I'm sure some of them are very good. However I have heard of some being run by people who are fairly new to snakes and have only been handling for a couple of years.......again completing a course does not make you a fully competant handler. The guy who did your course certainly knows his snakes and has been involved with them a very long time, however from what I have seen of the way he conducts his shows it leaves a lot to be desired!


----------



## ecosnake (Oct 30, 2008)

Good to see this place (APS) hasn't changed a bit..........simple thread turns pointless!


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

Minka said:


> Carol = Fool


=Carol. Minka = Fool.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

Dannymh said:


> I am going to settle this once and for all.
> 
> It is quite clearly a Natural Confectionery company snake, someone mixed the red orange and yellows together....it turned out brown


 = Carol. Yep. I do agree.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> His snakes are anything but venomous... For a qualified snake handler, you really don't know alot. Does your certificate read 'Qualified Venomoid Snake Handler'? :lol:


=carol. I don't know where you got your information from, but he does use venemous snakes as well.


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Oct 30, 2008)

saratoga said:


> Hi Carol
> 
> completing a "snake handling course" should be just the start of a very steep learning curve. It takes years to become a skillful handler and fully competant with identification. The course will only give you the very basics.
> 
> ...




G'day guys,

I'd just like to add some info to this thread. 

One of the most repeated comments in our venomous snake courses is that we are giving everyone a solid base of knowledge to build their own style and skills from. We are definitely not under the illusion that everybody who leaves our classroom with a certificate is just as skilled as those who have been handling wild elapids for years. 

We have evaluated the way we run courses many times, and have also considered not doing them at all for a number of reasons. We don't make much money out of them, and it's definitely not our modus operandi.The main reason we conduct them is because I would personally much prefer someone to spend two days with us and have real life exposure to live venomous snakes and provide as much knowledge as we possibly can to them. As most would know, a lot of Queensland references that are handed out privately are done so on a wink and a handshake, rather than someone actually spending time with a new handler and making sure they have the necessary skills. 

Luckily for us, our attitude to our courses has paid off ten times over and we have people travelling from all over Australia (including Melbourne) to attend them because of their reputation. We seem to have established ourselves as the premiere course provider of all things venomous.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Ah well i'm over it. Please don't go giving advice out to anyone.


=carol. And I'm over you and your cheeky comments. What's your claim to fame when it comes to this topic that you are so ready to give an opinion on?


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> carol I dont think you should be giving out the advice seeing that you cant even spell taipan


=carol. TAIPAN. Picky aren't you.


----------



## hodges (Oct 30, 2008)

Some of the people's attitude in this thread is disgraceful.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Ok i said i was over it but he's making heaps of money...
> 
> FROM TAKING ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!! BAHahahahahahaha!!!!111one ONE
> 
> You really aren't a very good poster child for the guy lol, look at what he taught you! An eastern brown and a taipan the same thing :shock: :O?? Or is it that a taipan is a brown and a brown is a taipan?


= Get over yourself and grow up, maybe you might learn something, but I doubt it. It's called mentality, and yours is sadly lacking.


----------



## ryanharvey1993 (Oct 30, 2008)

= so anyone got pics of tiapans


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day guys,
> 
> I'd just like to add some info to this thread.
> 
> ...


----------



## Minka (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> =Carol. Minka = Fool.


 

Look we can go round and round in circles, but theres no escaping the fact your an idiot.


----------



## carol (Oct 30, 2008)

carol said:


> Jonno from ERD said:
> 
> 
> > G'day guys,
> ...


----------



## bredli84 (Oct 30, 2008)

he didn't give an opinion, he just advertised his course. You may not actually want to hear Jonno's opinion on the species in the pic


----------



## WombleHerp (Oct 30, 2008)

if you think thats a T A I P A N (say it as your spelling it..) TAI - PAN not tee-a-pan, t-eye-pan.....

you are plain wrong.

and that website?? LOL :lol:

Nat


----------



## Fuscus (Oct 30, 2008)

Really, if you can't 100% id a snake you should regard it as venomous an leave it at that


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Oct 30, 2008)

Ha ha, now that was a good read. Anyone got some hot popcorn mine is all cold now... :-(


----------



## tomcat88 (Oct 30, 2008)

dont feed the trolls


----------



## cracksinthepitch (Oct 30, 2008)

Me thinks Raymond doesnt receive many Christmas cards.


----------



## Australis (Nov 2, 2008)

carol said:


> Another name for your coastal tiapan up your way is The Eastern Brown. I just finished a venemous snake handling course and the herpetologist mentioned this to us.



If as you (Carol) say, in QLD or at least in parts of QLD people refer to Taipans as Eastern Brown Snakes
in such areas what do call real Eastern Browns.

Ive heard people use some strange common names for things, but never this (and im in QLD).


----------



## m.punja (Nov 2, 2008)

I can't believe people will bite the bait so easily for some noobie (more then likely an ex-member) who throws up Hoser's website. 

It's pretty clear that everyone agree's this is an EBS. It appears to me that this is Carol's idea of some fun which is a pitty because visitors or other newbies may be in doubt now as to weather this is a Tai or EBS, either way it's bite can be fatal so it's not really dangerous to mistake the two for one another, easy solve, admire from a distance.
Even if eyes were an indicator wouldn't the flash alter that with IDing a snake? Provided the camera used a flash.


----------



## cris (Nov 2, 2008)

Australis said:


> If as you (Carol) say, in QLD or at least in parts of QLD people refer to Taipans as Eastern Brown Snakes
> in such areas what do call real Eastern Browns.
> 
> Ive heard people use some strange common names for things, but never this (and im in QLD).



Im guessing it may have been a joke about ppl thinking they are taipans because they cant id snakes. Its a bit like all the "king browns" you get in Brisbane...


----------



## dodgie (Nov 2, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> No no, give her a chance.
> 
> Carol + Hoser = fool :lol:




This thread is funny.:lol:


----------



## Hooglabah (Nov 2, 2008)

hay carol you do realise that guy de venoms his snakes right??? id question anybodys knowledge who needs to do that to have elapids. now i dont own elapids so correcr me if im wrong but buy de venoming them it would be the same as giveing a soldiure a gun putting him on gurd duty but not giveing him any bullets. never mind the fact if you dont have the level of competancey to trust your self with an elapid you shouldnt own one imo not get the de venomed i thought that was illeagal in australia anyway.


----------



## Hooglabah (Nov 2, 2008)

never mind the fact he does it so he can allow the public to get closer to them what a tool that guy i believe the article i just read said that he wants to be able to hold more than one elapid during shows and allow people to come closer than three meters. so for what im getting for his own finacial and egotastical benefit he mutilates snakes not the kinda guy id trust to train me.


----------



## xScarlettex (Nov 2, 2008)

idontlikeurmango said:


> Just putting this out there.
> 
> Perhaps instead of bickering and ridiculing - one could educate and maybe start a thread with how to accurately identify vens with pics etc and make it a sticky. Since there are so many experts on here (myself excluded) it shouldn't be hard to do this.



i agree =)


----------



## PimmsPythons (Nov 2, 2008)

stop it carol!!! my ribs are hurting and i think a little bit of pee just came out.
heres one of our local tiapans(or as we apparently call them up here ,eastern browns .pmsl)
cheers
simon


----------



## Kersten (Nov 2, 2008)

slimebo said:


> stop it carol!!! my ribs are hurting and i think a little bit of pee just came out.
> heres one of our local tiapans(or as we apparently call them up here ,eastern browns .pmsl)
> cheers
> simon



Now, now Simon, don't let the poor girl think that your incontinence is her fault....we've all seen what happens to you after a few 

Those "browns" look familiar....


----------



## carol (Nov 2, 2008)

Its all too easy for a few of you to give an opinion. But a few need to get there facts straight on a few things before assuming they know so much about a particular snake handler. He has had a lot more experience with reptiles than most of the younger ones who are posting rubbish. Yes, some of his snakes are venemoid. I think people should be keeping an open mind on these things, instead of slandering someone you have never met and know nothing about. I will re-phrase a few things that I posted. One I was told that people sometimes mistake Taipans as Eastern Browns and visa-versa. Also down here in Melbourne, people have wrongly identified snakes. Some have thought they have a tiger snake on their property, when it's a copperhead. The tiger snake is a more well built snake, than the copperheads. We have a lot of copperheads here in The Dandnong Ranges. Who said it's illegal to de-venomise snakes. I could open up a can of worms here, but I'm not going to. I found the course very informative, and so have the numerous others that have booked in for the course with him. He has also exposed a lot of corrupt people by writing about the truth in some of his well known books. I have studied and read a lot of his reptile reports over the years. This man is no dummy, when it comes to reptiles. Try to have an open mind on some things before you post and find out the facts, without hearing it from others who are probably envious of all this man has achieved. I found him very informative. He has shown us another way of handling and capturing snakes with very little risk of being bitten.,compared to some of the methods I have seen people use. He must be doing something right, his booked constantly for his snake shows and reptile courses. I know some handlers who run courses and they claim that they have had a number of years experience, when they have only had 5 or 6 years at it. I have learnt a safe and easy way of capturing snakes, and it certainly isn't using tongs on the snake, or hooks for that matter. It was shown that using the hook method to capture a snake doesn't always work that well either. I have learnt a much easier way of picking up and handling snakes, and with less risk of being bitten than some of the other methods. All his snakes look healthy and happy to me, and are well looked after. Including the venemoid snakes in his care. What about the people whio kill snakes at random, especially up the bush, and don;t think twice. Now that's cruel. Cheers Carol.


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 2, 2008)

carol said:


> Its all too easy for a few of you to give an opinion. But a few need to get there facts straight on a few things before assuming they know so much about a particular snake handler. He has had a lot more experience with reptiles than most of the younger ones who are posting rubbish. Yes, some of his snakes are venemoid. I think people should be keeping an open mind on these things, instead of slandering someone you have never met and know nothing about. I will re-phrase a few things that I posted. One I was told that people sometimes mistake Taipans as Eastern Browns and visa-versa. Also down here in Melbourne, people have wrongly identified snakes. Some have thought they have a tiger snake on their property, when it's a copperhead. The tiger snake is a more well built snake, than the copperheads. We have a lot of copperheads here in The Dandnong Ranges. Who said it's illegal to de-venomise snakes. I could open up a can of worms here, but I'm not going to. I found the course very informative, and so have the numerous others that have booked in for the course with him. He has also exposed a lot of corrupt people by writing about the truth in some of his well known books. I have studied and read a lot of his reptile reports over the years. This man is no dummy, when it comes to reptiles. Try to have an open mind on some things before you post and find out the facts, without hearing it from others who are probably envious of all this man has achieved. I found him very informative. He has shown us another way of handling and capturing snakes with very little risk of being bitten.,compared to some of the methods I have seen people use. He must be doing something right, his booked constantly for his snake shows and reptile courses. I know some handlers who run courses and they claim that they have had a number of years experience, when they have only had 5 or 6 years at it. I have learnt a safe and easy way of capturing snakes, and it certainly isn't using tongs on the snake, or hooks for that matter. It was shown that using the hook method to capture a snake doesn't always work that well either. I have learnt a much easier way of picking up and handling snakes, and with less risk of being bitten than some of the other methods. All his snakes look healthy and happy to me, and are well looked after. Including the venemoid snakes in his care. What about the people whio kill snakes at random, especially up the bush, and don;t think twice. Now that's cruel. Cheers Carol.



Since your mind is open then perhaps you may enjoy learning something from reading some info found here.Seems like the only person at the hearing to actually believe anything he had to say was himself. 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2008/2035.html


----------



## Creed (Nov 2, 2008)

carol you would be a great advertisement if you got past the proof reader.


----------



## Rocky (Nov 2, 2008)

idontlikeurmango said:


> Just putting this out there.
> 
> Perhaps instead of bickering and ridiculing - one could educate and maybe start a thread with how to accurately identify vens with pics etc and make it a sticky. Since there are so many experts on here (myself excluded) it shouldn't be hard to do this.




Do it then..


Also. This thread was a great read so glad i now know that the Snake on the first page is indeed a Taipan, thanks Carol, I'll take your word over every single other person who has commented on this thread so far!


----------



## Rocky (Nov 3, 2008)

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with every one and say:

*Thats Defiantly a keelback, Mate.*


----------



## Rocky (Nov 3, 2008)

snakeman112 said:


> How can every body bee so blind?, i can see now!.



[email protected]$($&*&^@#======Carol, thoughts??


----------



## herpkeeper (Nov 3, 2008)

for christ sake kill this thread !


----------



## herpkeeper (Nov 3, 2008)

want some pop corn snakeman ?


----------



## Stitched (Nov 3, 2008)

Sometimes it is best to keep one's mouth well and truely shut


----------



## notechistiger (Nov 3, 2008)

skot_wa said:


> carol you would be a great advertisement if you got past the proof reader.


 
*pmsl!*


----------



## carol (Nov 4, 2008)

Wish some of you who post could back up your accusations. I'd like to hear them. Yeh, I think kill this thread, it's full of narrow mindedness by some. Cheers Carol.


----------



## notechistiger (Nov 4, 2008)

Do a google search. You'll find that evidence.


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 4, 2008)

carol said:


> Wish some of you who post could back up your accusations. I'd like to hear them. Yeh, I think kill this thread, it's full of narrow mindedness by some. Cheers Carol.



Ah well I will try once more.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/v...2008/2035.html
I guess the powers that be at VCAT are narrow minded as well?


----------



## BlindSnake (Nov 4, 2008)

Carol you poor thing. You got hosed. (Pardon the pun) I'll tell you the way to tell a brown from a head shot the way he should have. I could show you pictures of ten browns and you would think they are all different snakes because of thier colour.
All brown snakes have six uppar labials, and the fifth and sixth are divided by a temporal scale.
You can have that one free of charge..:lol:


----------



## carol (Nov 4, 2008)

I already know about this hearing at vcat and what it's all about. Each to their own method of snake handling, what method he uses is up to him. I don't care how he does it. Doesn't bother me, and probably numerous others who have done his course, otherwise they wouldn't be doing the course in the first place. I certainly knew about his method of removing venom glands from elapids, way before I did the course with him. Good Luck to him. I'm not going to jump on that discrimenation band wagon, that some of you are already on. I can make up my own mind thanks. Lets just agree to disagree. Bye Bye. Oh, and kill the post. I'm sick of it.


----------



## BlindSnake (Nov 4, 2008)

That sounds suspiciously like a hoser poser post..

Wouldnt be the first time the snakebuster got busted posing as someone else in support of himself! LOL

And yes, I have proof that he does this as I myself caught him out doing it on you tube, and when confronted, he removed the offending post which congratulated himself on
quote - "easily the best snake video iv ever seen! Keep up the good work! " - end quote - 
The idiot forgot his username would appear next to the video comment!! PMSL!!!!

I cant speak for the many other people who caught him doing this on forums when negative comments were made about him, I can only comment on the time I caught out the hoser poser..

Its a shame that someone who has undoubtedly given to the herp community, stoops to using methods such as these, to promote himself. (not to mention spreading blatant lies about other herpers and snake bite statistics, in order to make himself look good)


----------



## herpkeeper (Nov 4, 2008)

blindsnake, there are people who get on these forums with 2 user names to promote themselves, i know of a few LOL.


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 4, 2008)

Removing venom glands from animals should be completely illegal, punishable by inprisonment. So many people focus so much on pet shops and animal breeders eg. Clover Moore. but don`t realise that there are tools like Hoser who are blatently and publicly commiting animal cruelty violations, Do people just turn a "blind eye" because they are reptiles?
I reckon if you can`t keep, handle or teach others to handle dangerously venomous animals without removing their venom glands, then don`t.


----------



## AUSGECKO (Nov 4, 2008)

Sorry, just had to put my 2 cents worth in


----------



## cris (Nov 4, 2008)

Geck82 said:


> Removing venom glands from animals should be completely illegal, punishable by inprisonment. So many people focus so much on pet shops and animal breeders eg. Clover Moore. but don`t realise that there are tools like Hoser who are blatently and publicly commiting animal cruelty violations, Do people just turn a "blind eye" because they are reptiles?
> I reckon if you can`t keep, handle or teach others to handle dangerously venomous animals without removing their venom glands, then don`t.



Its nothing compared to sport fishing, but normal ppl dont care about fish or snakes. I fairly sure he is quite capable of handling snakes, i cant imagine him doing surgery on a snake before he relocates it... He was also keeping the snakes before he did the surgery.
Its quite simple there are just obvious advantages to not being envenomated(like being alive and not having nasty long term health problems) most captive snakes can only possibly use their venom to kill or harm their keeper, they simply dont need it for anything else. There are obvious ethical issues for many, but lots of ppl would think its unethical to keep snakes in captivity to start with.


----------



## BlindSnake (Nov 5, 2008)

Geck82 said:


> Removing venom glands from animals should be completely illegal, punishable by inprisonment. So many people focus so much on pet shops and animal breeders eg. Clover Moore. but don`t realise that there are tools like Hoser who are blatently and publicly commiting animal cruelty violations, Do people just turn a "blind eye" because they are reptiles?
> I reckon if you can`t keep, handle or teach others to handle dangerously venomous animals without removing their venom glands, then don`t.


 
If you ask 'poser' about the paper he wrote on production line venomoids, he will say its all lies.. (even tho he wrote it!)

The reason nothing is done is because ppl are scared of him. Scared of his name, and scared of being taken to court. (he has done this on a few occasions)

This man presents as a classic sociopath, who is great at self promotion and defense.
If you attack him, he will do everything in his power to use what you say against you, and bring you down.
He does not hesitate to use, and abuse people (esp other herpers) to further his own cause and lies about sucesses he says only he has achieved. 
Ppl like him are a disgrace to the herp world. 

I could go on and on, but ill shut up now.. he just makes my blood boil.:evil::evil::evil::evil:


----------



## Kylesg11 (Nov 21, 2008)

m.punja said:


> I can't believe people will bite the bait so easily for some noobie (more then likely an ex-member) who throws up Hoser's website.
> 
> It's pretty clear that everyone agree's this is an EBS. It appears to me that this is Carol's idea of some fun which is a pitty because visitors or other newbies may be in doubt now as to weather this is a Tai or EBS, either way it's bite can be fatal so it's not really dangerous to mistake the two for one another, easy solve, admire from a distance.
> Even if eyes were an indicator wouldn't the flash alter that with IDing a snake? Provided the camera used a flash.


 


Mymy this thread got bigger than ben hur.! lol ............Yes I did use a flash


----------



## Aslan (Nov 21, 2008)

carol said:


> Each to their own method of snake handling, what method he uses is up to him. I don't care how he does it.


 
...I agree entirely, I like to teach my special brand of snake handling that involves taking a shovel to them PRIOR to the lesson...but to each their own...as you say Carol, it's up to the individual handler...

...you are a peanut...

I am concerned about the number of Hoser posts appearing as of late - must be getting lonely close to Christmas, or it could be that he's off his meds again...


----------



## paleoherp (Nov 21, 2008)

OK so you like or don't like Hoser, it's a Brown, you can see it in the head for those who are getting into elapids I recomend Dangerous Snakes of Australia, by Peter Mirtschin & Richard Davis.


----------



## aussie.snakes (Nov 21, 2008)

paleoherp said:


> OK so you like or don't like Hoser, it's a Brown, you can see it in the head for those who are getting into elapids I recomend Dangerous Snakes of Australia, by Peter Mirtschin & Richard Davis.


 
Very nice Brown. Easy to identify in a picture although in person it is generally not to easy.

Lol nice read.

Liked it when I found out that Hoser is also a Canadian slang term for "A person whose self interest often outweighs any ethical considerations". Made me laugh so hard. (Yes as you can tell I am against removal of venom, although everyone intitled to their own opion).


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 21, 2008)

check hoser out on urbandictionary ..............fits to a tee lol


----------



## paleoherp (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah I have one of his books from 1989, not really a big fan, if you want to keep elapids, keep them as they are or don't do it at all, but I try not to judge, because at the end of the day my opinions are my own.


----------



## $NaKe PiMp (Nov 22, 2008)

super LOL this thread


----------



## DanTheMan (Nov 22, 2008)

LOL!!! That snake buster guy has a vid on youtube with 2 Inland Tai's biting him, I was the 1st to comment on that twat. God he's a loser! I think that may be what some of you are talking about. The ones that had their venom glands removed.


----------



## mckellar007 (Nov 22, 2008)

DanTheMan said:


> LOL!!! That snake buster guy has a vid on youtube with 2 Inland Tai's biting him, I was the 1st to comment on that twat. God he's a loser! I think that may be what some of you are talking about. The ones that had their venom glands removed.


 

you werent the first, ive commented it twice, he jjust deletes them unfortunantly, like how it trys to diss every other educational reptile program saying they arent safe!!!!!!


----------



## DanTheMan (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh does he lol, I was surprised no one had commented on it.
Yea I saw that at the end, he's such a tool, says that he has a perfect record of ven snake bites, and as I said in my comment, this is because he doesn't handle venomous snakes!


----------



## DanTheMan (Nov 22, 2008)

carol said:


> I am a qualified snake handler, and have been reading the reseach of one of our top herpetologists in Australia. He runs snake and reptile courses throughout ausralia, i have been issued with my snake handling certificate by him. We learnt about snake identification, capturing and handling of our venemous snakes. Breeding and keeping of reptiles and snakes, etc. If your interested go to his website www.snakebusters.com.au and have a read. Cheers Carol.



Dont know if any one has said this, just been reading through every post

IMO
Carol = Snakebuster guy, Hoser or whatever his name is, he's just promoting his website, twice so far and im only on page 3, i think.
TOOL!!!!!


----------



## ryanharvey1993 (Nov 22, 2008)

wow this thread is still going lol, its a brown for sure and I have one thing to say "if you get bitten, YOU DIE"


----------

