# What Happened?



## Belinda (Dec 22, 2003)

What Happened to the OLD APS? Where members were friendly to each other, didn't jump to a newbies throat and was always willing to help out? What happened to all the friendliness? Slatey and Slatey J, I Love this site and you are doing a great job...But alot of our members need to get their act together. What happened to when everyone was always friendly and their PM's were kind and helpful?


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## Farkurnell (Dec 22, 2003)

I think this site is totally over moderated. No one seems to be able to express an opinion be it personal or not. This heavy handed attitude by whoever keeps hitting the delete button is incredibly repellent.

Farkurnell.


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## mystic_herps (Dec 22, 2003)

Heavy moderation is needed though.Especially when members create alias nicks to cause troubles (even after their original nicks are deleted)...


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## westhamsc (Dec 22, 2003)

it all started going downhill when i joined so one member told me


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## Artie (Dec 22, 2003)

So it?s all your fault and not Greebo?s:lol:


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## saikrett (Dec 22, 2003)

are we playing the blame game now?


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## bkgone (Dec 22, 2003)

hey u werent nice to me when i posted questions belle


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## wattso (Dec 22, 2003)

Hi saikrett, i like your avatar, is that a sawshell hatchie or emydura mac?
dosnt look quite as spiky as a sawshell but its a bit hard to tell. looks alotlike E. mac??????


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## zoe (Dec 22, 2003)

beat me to it bkgone


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## saikrett (Dec 22, 2003)

yeah, murray river shortneck,
bout 3.5 cm TINY!


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## Already_Gone (Dec 22, 2003)

To remember that they were once that little and fitted on a 20c piece is pretty hard to believe now!!! Still very cute though


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## insectovor (Dec 22, 2003)

Nice penny turtle.


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## saikrett (Dec 22, 2003)

believe me, i payed more than a penny for it


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## lutzd (Dec 22, 2003)

TO Farkurnell:

Well, we can't be ALL bad, as we let you get away with that username. Of course, if someone complains, you'll have to change it! :twisted: 

Seriously though, once upon a time, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, we very rarely had to moderate/edit/delete any posts. However, as the site has grown and the number of members has grown it has become necessary,

Like it - stay and be welcome to participate in a community of (mostly) really nice people.

Don't like it? You are always free to leave. No-one is forcing you or anyone to stay. Believe me, we don't like it either - I spent 1.5 hours this morning cleaning up the mess from last night. We HATE having to moderate, but it's the only way to keep it on an even keel. So... sorry, but that's the way it has to be.

Maybe we should create an "Abuse" forum, where the stirrers can say whatever they like and the sane people can simply ignore it! :lol:


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## Rina (Dec 22, 2003)

Ironic isn't it Belinda to feel as if you have to defend your credibility to a group of what you perceive to be likeminded people.
You definatlely rolled out the welcome mat for Shane and I.
There have been some really interesting conversations and helpful sharing of advice on this site and yes as with every community of people there is going to be disharmony so maybe a case of taking the good with the ugly. 
Probably going to open a can of worms but what the hell but I get the impression that particular members enjoy more of a free reign in how they express themselves here than others
I think everyone here is pretty capable of giving as good as they get and as long as it is not filthy and too deregatory healthy, is sometimes healthy debate is good.
Just my opinion therefore not looking for any in agreement
Regards Rina


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## Belinda (Dec 22, 2003)

Hey Lutzd....I really dont think Farkenell's name is appropiate  

He he...Nah, Just kidding


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## Rina (Dec 22, 2003)

Really Belinda, the point of that last post is not constructive and more than likely will just mildly annoy Farkenell.
How about letting us know if you located the escapee gecko :twisted: 
Rina


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## lutzd (Dec 22, 2003)

Yes, Rina, you're right. Sometimes the forums have had some great debates, with most users showing great restraint, and it has resulted in informative and amusing threads from time to time. These sort of posts are not a problem. It's only when they degenerate into personal attacks or abuse that we step in. As for "everyone here is pretty capable of giving as good as they get" ...... you didn't see the number of complaint PM's we used to get before we got "tougher". :shock: :wink:


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## wattso (Dec 22, 2003)

Good work this morning David. Thankyou. :wink:


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## Rina (Dec 22, 2003)

But isn't that half the fun sometimes? Imagine the frustrated souls behind the keyboard because admittedly I too have had my moments!


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## lutzd (Dec 22, 2003)

Nope. Sorry, Rina, but I don't find it fun at all! I'd much rather browse and post to the forums just like you guys, but half the time I don't have time to do it.


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## Bruce (Dec 22, 2003)

With the number of people using this forum I think there has to be some level of administration or else it just becomes a free for all,
and the people who lose out then are the people that really need the help. We can all sit back and make snide comments on these matters but we are supposed to be encouraging people into the hobby - not scaring them away! I for one would stop checking the site if it turned into nothing more than a forum for abuse.
I have only made a few inuiries through this medium, but when I have I have been fortunate to get many positive replies. 
As for some of the comments regarding Belindas escaped geckos, how many people out there can say they have never had a herp escape, or had some other sort of incident. Not me!
Hope the gecko turns up Belinda! And keep up the good work at APS guys, it is still a great website!


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## kevyn (Dec 22, 2003)

> As for some of the comments regarding Belindas escaped geckos, how many people out there can say they have never had a herp escape, or had some other sort of incident. Not me!



Exactly. We all make mistakes and sometimes they really suck. Mistakes are only a waste if we don't learn from them.


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## Belinda (Dec 22, 2003)

Yeah, And I dont really appreciate it, and I am pretty darn positive others arent when it happens to them, when people jump down your throats for doing something different to what they others do, or have a problem ( like me gecko escaping) and everyone jumping down my throat and still continuing to PM me about it!!


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## Fuscus (Dec 22, 2003)

I have had no problem expressing my opinion on this site and don't think it is over moderated. Perhaps that is because I want to use this site to learn and perhaps even to teach a little. I will argue to the limits of my logic and knowledge only, if I am proven wrong then I am proven wrong - big deal - I don't know every thing and would rather be corrected than to "know" a falsehood.

And I saw the damage that lutzd repaired this morning, a couple of bozos thought it was cool to paste the same lame remarks in every thread. It was work that shouldn't have needed to be done.

And as for Bels mistakes, well, when I was a teenager I did much worse (And I am not willing to explain further). But I have learnt and the only way you can avoid mistakes is not to anything at all.


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## kevyn (Dec 22, 2003)

Well put Fuscus.


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## sxereturn (Dec 22, 2003)

I agree this place is way too moderated. I myself look after a forum (which has a lot more members and hits then this place) and there's no need for it.

There's a nice big thick line between moderation and dictatorship, and the moderators here have crossed it.

Life isn't all happy smiles. If people screw up (i.e Belle with her geckoes) and someone gives them a minor revving for it, it's life. Deal with it. If she's so easily effected, she's going to spend her whole life depressed.

I made a post in the for sale section asking why someones Maccies were so expensive. A rather legitimate question I thought...but no, it was deleted.


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## Slateman (Dec 22, 2003)

I think that we are doing fairly well. Usually people who are complaining about over moderating are people who do not contribute to much here and have not much to offer to other people regarding the herps. 
People who like to keep this site designated mainly to our hobby, do appreciate firm hand, so they do not have to go through personal fights all the time.


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## Slateman (Dec 22, 2003)

To sex return
In return to your complain.
If somebody put advertising to for sell section, it is *his advertising *and extremely rude by you or anyone to say in *his for sale ad* that he is ripping people off. You did not see the snakes so how come you are expert to judge if the price is right. It is not your business to dictate to people for how much to sell their snakes.
You are welcome to sell your self cheaper here , but do not ruin other peoples business. Olivaceus71 is good member and is in title to Adwertise here with out nasty comments. So anybody else. 

And at last sexreturn, if you do not like our job here on APS you are welcome to leave. It is many sites not moderated and I am sure that you will be welcome there. And no dictatorship there mate.
I will keep this site for people who like it that way.

Thanks David and Nicole for hard work in past few days.


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## Nicole (Dec 22, 2003)

Thanks Slateman.

Others, we honestly do our best.. I spent an hour deleting the same stupid comments posted to at least 20 threads, just like David did. I'm sure if some members had to navigate through that sort of stuff that they would no longer complain about over-moderation...


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## wattso (Dec 22, 2003)

Thankyou too Nicole, good work !


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## kevyn (Dec 22, 2003)

I think people are certainly entitled to a difference of opinion but there is a polite way to disagree. Any way things are alot more fun tonight.


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## Farkurnell (Dec 23, 2003)

Belle~Belinda said:


> Hey Lutzd....I really dont think Farkenell's name is appropiate
> 
> He he...Nah, Just kidding




If you're going to complain about my choice of screen name can you at least ensure you spell it correctly and try to understand it's meaning beforehand? For those of you ignorant to the suburbs of Sydney, Kurnell is a small suburb situated on Botany Bay where I spent a lot of time as a child. It's your immature minds that sees any other connotation.


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## Rina (Dec 23, 2003)

Well, that cleared that up Farkurnell because as many times I was saying your screen name out loud I still can't figure out how it is offensive. 
As someone who has also had an odd escapee I can sympathise with Belinda but Brodie was spot on when he mentioned that the buck ultimately stops with the owner of the animal in question. Imagine if someones younger brother decided to show the new cool elapid to his mates. Kids as you well would be able to relate to Belinda, are just wired this way. Sincerly do hope you locate it though.


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## adullthud (Dec 23, 2003)

There was an abuse forum on yahoo a while ago. Someone complained and it was deleted. you just cant win sometimes.


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## Rina (Dec 23, 2003)

...LOL adulthud. :lol:


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## sxereturn (Dec 23, 2003)

Slateman said:


> To sex return
> In return to your complain.
> If somebody put advertising to for sell section, it is *his advertising *and extremely rude by you or anyone to say in *his for sale ad* that he is ripping people off. You did not see the snakes so how come you are expert to judge if the price is right. It is not your business to dictate to people for how much to sell their snakes.
> You are welcome to sell your self cheaper here , but do not ruin other peoples business. Olivaceus71 is good member and is in title to Adwertise here with out nasty comments. So anybody else.
> ...



I never said that they were ripping anybody off. I didn't ruin anybodies business. If they're going to advertise animals for more than they are normally sold for, there has to be a reason. That reason was not stated in his post, so I was merely asking why they were more expensive?


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## astrobeka (Dec 23, 2003)

more than they are usually sold for?
maybe they are priced different in different states.
when i was getting my mac, i looked everywhere, and found them priced between $150 and $250, just in nsw... so i think what olivaceus is asking for is definately reasonable!


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## astrobeka (Dec 23, 2003)

anyway, what i should have said was....
i think you guys are doing a great job , slateman, nicole, david, to put up with alot of the rubbish that goes on here sometimes.
i think this site is great!


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## mystic_herps (Dec 23, 2003)

There is many reasons for difference in pricing.

1. Demand & supply 
2. Strain & lining 
3. Markings & color
4. Condition & health
5. Sexed or not
6. Feeding or not 
7. Housing or not
8. Caresheet or not

$200 seems reasonable to me considering they would be feeding regularly and be accurately sexed.I cant see why anyone would cut their own throat by selling an animal that is averaging $150 - $250 for a mere $100 (that is $500 - $1500 loss per clutch of 10) unless they have issues such as fussy feeders,unsexed,undesirable patterning etc.It is also likely that the breeder works with many animals hence wants a quik sale,in that case they could have spent very little & limited time with the hatchlings preparing them for readiness of sale...

*PS*
It's a simple case of contacting the seller directly & enquiring about those 8 points I have made along with anything else you can think of and determin for yourself if the asking price is acceptable or not!


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## Amy (Dec 23, 2003)

I stand behind our moderators entirely. They are what keeps this website up and running and gernerally a nice place to be. Were they to stop moderating, this site would very soon go down the proverbial plug hole. I appreciate the fact that they put in their own time and money in order for us to be connected with other herpers around australia and the world. If you dont want to be here, I am sure the moderators would be more than happy to remove your account (in between their cleaning up the forums, moderating posts, accepting new members and dealing with complaints/pms/suggestions of others). There are many forums out there that are unmoderated, unruly, abusive and generally full of trash which I am sure would welcome you if that is what you so desire.

Keep up the good work to all our moderators and to those who wish to make life hard for those here, there are many places for you to let of steam without hurting/annoying others.

Amy


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## zoe (Dec 23, 2003)

i think it would be helpful if people didnt complain so easily. live and let live guys


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## Slateman (Dec 23, 2003)

Dear Sexreturn.
Our members here can sell and trade animals for any price that they like.
If you do not like the price, please do not response. And yes it was rude to do this.
If you like to have say about the prices, you are welcome to start your own topic but be tactfull. Just do not tell people in they advertisements for how much they should sell they animals or products. It is not your business to get involved in private sell this way. 
you did not merely ask why they were more expensive and you know it.
best to drop this subject and i hope that all members will learn by this to be respectful to private sales in our for sell section.
No hard feeling, settle down and have fun.


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