# Mine Worker Fined Over Reptiles



## Firedrake (Dec 7, 2011)

"Wildlife smuggling is a serious problem and DEC takes the unlawful possession of protected reptiles and reptile trafficking very seriously.

Read more: Mine worker fined over reptiles | News.com.au


Yeah ok >.>
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## Leasdraco (Dec 9, 2011)

I feel sad for animals that are smuggled and sold illegally :cry:


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## MissFuller (Dec 9, 2011)

the penalty's are not hard anuf


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## jack (Dec 10, 2011)

in further related news, the mine site at which the poor fellow worked at is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of similar animals and has irrevocably altered the habitat that could have supported thousands of generations of such reptiles, and thus for potentially removing millions of these animals from existence they have been fined $0 by the dec...


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 10, 2011)

jack said:


> in further related news, the mine site at which the poor fellow worked at is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of similar animals and has irrevocably altered the habitat that could have supported thousands of generations of such reptiles, and thus for potentially removing millions of these animals from existence they have been fined $0 by the dec...



Exactly Jack... but mines make money, so it's a hypocritical ball-game really - target the little blokes to be seen to be doing something for conservation. If you fly over the upper Hunter Valley in NSW as I have done a couple of times recently, the coal mines have reduced everything to a moonscape as far as you can see - would mean the deaths of many millions of reptiles, not to mention those killed on the country roads by the bumper-to-bumper traffic of commuting mineworkers... But perish the thought if a mine worker collects something which is probably doomed, and takes it home to keep. Throw the book at the bastard!

The propaganda machines still fool a lot of our fellow herpers though.

Jamie


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## benjamind2010 (Dec 10, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Exactly Jack... but mines make money, so it's a hypocritical ball-game really - target the little blokes to be seen to be doing something for conservation. If you fly over the upper Hunter Valley in NSW as I have done a couple of times recently, the coal mines have reduced everything to a moonscape as far as you can see - would mean the deaths of many millions of reptiles, not to mention those killed on the country roads by the bumper-to-bumper traffic of commuting mineworkers... But perish the thought if a mine worker collects something which is probably doomed, and takes it home to keep. Throw the book at the bastard!
> 
> The propaganda machines still fool a lot of our fellow herpers though.
> 
> Jamie



This is one thing, amongst many, that contribute to my mental illness.

Ben


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## zulu (Dec 10, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> This is one thing, amongst many, that contribute to my mental illness.
> 
> Ben



I think its DEC that is mentally ill.

Problem that DEC had with this bloke is that they didnt get cash from royalties or takers permit.

Stuff DEC and the horse they rode into town on .


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## killimike (Dec 10, 2011)

You set up an overly restrictive law, and then when people knowingly disobey that law (causing no harm other than denying money to the government for nothing), you catch them out, paint them as a criminal, and use the incident as validation for the need of your overly restrictive law, and your whole existence to start with. Bureaucracy 101.


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## Retic (Dec 10, 2011)

I really shouldn't be surprised by this story, some bloke has a couple of animals he shouldn't have and is labelled a criminal and somehow associated with smuggling, he is quite heavily fined and dragged over the coals. At the same time as has been pointed out the mining industry is destroying huge areas of habitat and killing countless animals but they are rewarded for their actions. Many keepers, mostly new to the hobby, look at the story and say 'he got what he deserved' without seeing the big picture.


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## Rocket (Dec 10, 2011)

So the WA DEC released the skink back into the wild? Poor choice. They had no idea (based on the content of the article) when it was captured, where and how long it was maintained in a captive setting. Then they just release it in a location they deem "suitable habitat".


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## longqi (Dec 10, 2011)

Devils Advocate drops by

So every mine worker in every mining operation should be allowed to remove whatever he wants and dispose of it however he wants without fear of prosecution???


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## BrownHash (Dec 10, 2011)

Rocket said:


> So the WA DEC released the skink back into the wild? Poor choice. .



Poor choices are what the DEC are built around.


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## Renenet (Dec 10, 2011)

longqi said:


> So every mine worker in every mining operation should be allowed to remove whatever he wants and dispose of it however he wants without fear of prosecution???



Absolutely not, in my opinion. But the hypocrisy in the situation stinks. For me it's symptomatic of larger problems in the world we live in.


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## Waterrat (Dec 10, 2011)

In the scheme of things, I see a difference between someone collecting a few animal to keep them, enjoy and learn about them and someone indiscriminately collecting whatever is in demand to sell it on the black market. 
Educate and encourage the former and jail the latter.


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## Retic (Dec 10, 2011)

Absolutely not but we don't see any perspective, equality or commonsense. If a big mining company killed 1000 snakes directly as a result of its business then so be it but if 1000 mining workers each took 1 snake and kept it they would all be criminals.



longqi said:


> Devils Advocate drops by
> 
> So every mine worker in every mining operation should be allowed to remove whatever he wants and dispose of it however he wants without fear of prosecution???



That is exactly the problem Michael, no distinction is made. A person keeps a few animals without a license and they are branded a criminal and no doubt part of an extensive smuggling racket selling Stimsons Pythons for $10,000 each overseas.


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## longqi (Dec 10, 2011)

Couple of years ago I talked with 2 dec guys in Indonesia
They were hopelessly trying to follow the trail of Aussie reps collected by mine workers
smuggled out of port hedland on ore ships
destined for the gecko king who is the malaysian chinese head of a huge smuggling operation

They know exactly who is involved and how but because of extremely limited powers can barely scratch the surface

Unless they have direct and specific proof that the reps are destined for export ie; caught being loaded onto a ship; they cannot either allege or prove that this is the case, so the accused is charged with collecting rather than smuggling
Sometimes more innocent private collectors get caught up in the net

They dont wait at an airport miles from anywhere without good reason as they are hugely understaffed

I fully appreciate that sometimes it seems like hypocrisy
but with mining all they can do is demand an EIS
After that other government departments make the decisions

Most of the DEC field operators seem like good people with a huge love of aussie wildlife
=cant say as much about the office wallahs]


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## AndrewHenderson (Dec 10, 2011)

I find it hard to believe they are getting them onto the ore ships, I work in Port Hedland with the loading side and no more than 2 people per shift are allowed on there with the exception of customs and quarantine etc, and those guys are all scared of snakes haha. This is BHP not FMG, I can't comment on their side but i'd guess it is the same. It is more believable they are being smuggled through the general Port Authority wharf where a range of ships are in. 

I had a guy once tell me 12 months ago he had a mate he worked on the rail crew a couple of years ago that had a licence to export snakes and regularly went to the Port with bags to drop them off with him. After I told him he was full of crap and there is no such thing as an export permit as it's a blanket ban he felt a bit dumb he'd been duped into beliving this. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same bloke DEC were chasing when you met them.


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## longqi (Dec 10, 2011)

Quite possibly
I assumed they were ore ships because ore is the biggest export from ph
my bad


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## Renenet (Dec 10, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> In the scheme of things, I see a difference between someone collecting a few animal to keep them, enjoy and learn about them and someone indiscriminately collecting whatever is in demand to sell it on the black market. Educate and encourage the former and jail the latter.



Definitely a difference. Smuggling results in much animal cruelty and should not be tolerated. But I do see problems with allowing individuals to collect wild animals, even if they're only allowed a handful. How do you make sure they're not trashing the local habitat looking for what they want? That they look after what they catch and don't take it for granted because "there are plenty more where those came from"? That they don't take endangered species? Then, if everyone starts to do it, the problems are multiplied.

If people want to have reptiles, there are plenty for sale at good prices. There's no need to take them from the wild except for conservation purposes (as part of a scientifically structured program), scientific study or, on the odd occasion, to inject new blood into captive stock. I agree with the latter because it would be hypocritical for me not to - all our animals originated from WC stock. People will keep reptiles, so it's by far preferable (to me) to continue to ensure there are beautiful specimens available to buy. 

Where the rules could be relaxed is in allowing people to catch reptiles for brief study, as long as they let them go where they came from and do so with respect for the local ecosystem. Many of us on APS used to do this as kids, completely unaware of the rules (if there were any at that time), and our love of animals and conservation was nurtured as a result.


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## Waterrat (Dec 10, 2011)

Reneret, I am not suggesting that everyone should be allowed to collect wild reptiles. However, I do feel that in this particular case (and similar) the DEC officers could have said "look fella, you have done the wrong thing ...... but, get yourself a Licence, we will then inspect your set up and provided all is OK, we will give you a warning. You are on notice, next you get caught, it's 5 years jail".


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## longqi (Dec 10, 2011)

But how do DEC know the difference?

Years ago in Sydney the drug squad listened to a junkie tell the bosses of a major drug smuggling operation that one of his trusted men was an undercover cop
They grabbed the junkie and he fell down some stairs or something after they gave him a flogging for busting a major heroin bust they had in the bag
Lawyer called Chris Murphy got involved
Massive payouts etc for a low life who deserved everything he got and who had destroyed a huge operation and definitely put in mortal danger an undercover cop who had to leave Aus and as far as I know has never returned

So although the general public never heard one word about that part, the public condemned the cops for going over the top on the limited information available through the press

So in every case that gets reported we simply dont know all the facts
We only know what is reported

Because I traveled interstate so much with reps for demonstrations I had many run ins with various dec departments
Office guys are generally just government idiots with hidden agendas
But the guys in the field help protect wildlife
Cant ask for more than that


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## Mister_Snakes (Dec 10, 2011)

If they found them in his jocks at the airport, then hey, prosecute the hell out of him.


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## longqi (Dec 10, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Reneret, I am not suggesting that everyone should be allowed to collect wild reptiles. However, I do feel that in this particular case (and similar) the DEC officers could have said "look fella, you have done the wrong thing ...... but, get yourself a Licence, we will then inspect your set up and provided all is OK, we will give you a warning. You are on notice, next you get caught, it's 5 years jail".



It is within their power do exactly that
But we will never know what went on behind the scenes in this case or others that have been mentioned in other threads
We should just be thankful that Aus actually has some rules and regulations in place
I can buy imported gaboon vipers and black mambas without a single bit of paper here
And so can anyone else
That is straight out scary
99% of the pets export from here is wild caught

Although some decisions are bad ones in the final analysis you are a lot better , wild animal welfare wise,that any other country on Earth


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## Retic (Dec 10, 2011)

The problem is that Australia's conservation record is pretty bad, don't we have the worst mammal extinction record in the world ? On top of that there is an ever growing number of species being added to the list of threatened and endangered. There just seems to be a higher emphasis on this sort of thing that the real problems facing native wildlife.


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## Waterrat (Dec 10, 2011)

Honestly, I wouldn't live in that bloody state (WA) if they paid me a million. .... I would be a poor man very quickly again because I would fast spend the million on fighting the rotted DEC. Why is it that we have sensible rules, relaxed atmosphere and good relations with the wildlife authorities in one state and this gestapo-prehistoric style department in another. What's so different about WA (apart from idiots in the DEC) from Qld? We have endemic species here too and probably more then WA. It's really hard to absorb.


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## ozziepythons (Dec 10, 2011)

The ugly truth is what quite often happens with animals seized by the authorities. A person may illegally be keeping and even trading in reptiles but often those that do have the best husbandry practices and equipment money can buy. Once taken from them and handed over to a cash strapped, government facility where the husbandry practices are set up and executed by a total incompetent, the reptiles health deteriorates and may not even be alive by the time a court case is heard.


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## Waterrat (Dec 10, 2011)

Or, they get euthanised before the court hearing (so they can accurately identified or should I say misidentified) and then presented preserved as evidence. This has happened in WA earlier this year. There was a fear (amongst the DEC brightminds) that if the accused was found not guilty, the reptiles would have to be returned by a court order.


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## HonestPirate (Dec 10, 2011)

jesus said:


> the penalty's are not hard anuf



Wow I would have thought Jesus would at least have a spellcheck function on his batphone !


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## AndrewHenderson (Dec 10, 2011)

honestpirate said:


> wow i would have thought jesus would at least have a spellcheck function on his batphone !



hahaha


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## Renenet (Dec 10, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Reneret, I am not suggesting that everyone should be allowed to collect wild reptiles. However, I do feel that in this particular case (and similar) the DEC officers could have said "look fella, you have done the wrong thing ...... but, get yourself a Licence, we will then inspect your set up and provided all is OK, we will give you a warning. You are on notice, next you get caught, it's 5 years jail".



That makes sense.


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 11, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't live in that bloody state (WA) if they paid me a million. .... I would be a poor man very quickly again because I would fast spend the million on fighting the rotted DEC. Why is it that we have sensible rules, relaxed atmosphere and good relations with the wildlife authorities in one state and this gestapo-prehistoric style department in another. What's so different about WA (apart from idiots in the DEC) from Qld? We have endemic species here too and probably more then WA. It's really hard to absorb.



The interesting thing Michael, is that if you were a millionaire in WA, you could easily pull strings to keep what you want - I remember when Pearl Coast Zoo was going under in Broome, and they had 5 Galapagos Tortoises to dispose of, Multiplex millionaire John Roberts who had a big spread in the Swan Valley near Perth decided he'd like them, put in an application for these highly endangered exotic reptiles... and they were his! It's not what you know, it's who you know and how much money you have...

Sorry, a bit O/T!

Jamie


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## Waterrat (Dec 11, 2011)

Jamie, shame on you. You're not suggesting corruption in that shining state, are you?


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