# Fair price - N Asper?



## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

Hi All

I am just curious to know what would be a fair price for a guaranteed subadult pair of N. Asper go for? I know of sub adult N. Amyae females on their own having sold for $800+ & knowing how much rarier Asper are shouldn't they be dearer & also based on their rarity incaptivity.

Anyway will through this at everyone & see what you all reacon is a fair & reasonable pricing. It seems very strange with pricing these day when you see relatively common species of pythons which are pretty easy to come by now days in captivity still hitting the $1500 - $2000 a pair mark - so whats the go with rarier species in captivity then? Or is price based on demand like real estate?

Cheers in advance.


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## Twiggz (Apr 27, 2007)

Cheap as chips personally......so i can afford some lol.

For a financial standing i would be inclined to have a higher standing with Asper, like you said rarity should come into it. as for a specific price i'm not sure.

I do recall a sub-adult pair or adult pair of amyae last year being sold for i think around $1500 or more.


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## DrNick (Apr 27, 2007)

I am also very interested in this topic Troy, as I was also considering it just today! As you have stated, Amyae's pricing seems to still be quite high with animals selling within hours of being advertised.

I am tossing up if I will keep both my males or possibly sell one and retain the other....


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## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

Yeh its an interesting topic, the other thing I guess also is that Asper aren't going to lay as many eggs as some common python species do which maybe another reason. But personally speaking I can't see why a person couldn't get just under $1500 per sub adult pair if the price of Amyae is still so high. Yeh I have seen an Amyae subadult pair sell for say $1400. But Asper have no idea really.


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## DrNick (Apr 27, 2007)

Just consider the price these animals are fetching in the US...


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## Jason (Apr 27, 2007)

imo the price people pay for geckoes these days is a bit of a joke!!

id think for that species 500 would be a more realistic price!
just as i think normal knobs should only be about 60 each! i just think they are to much!!


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## Glimmerman (Apr 27, 2007)

Like most things - Price = Demand 

If someone is happy to pay $1500 for an animal then it is a good buy. If I really want an outstanding animal, that I like, if I can afford it - then I buy it, regardless of market the price. 

I know some ppl might think that $1500 is outrageous for a little gecko, I think $7k is outrangeous for a GTP but people pay that don't they


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## flavirufus (Apr 27, 2007)

As Troy alluded to, its all based on supply and demand. Asper aren't all that common in captivity, so there isn't much supply. However, it's generally only people who are really in to their geckos that would want them more than an amyae. Amyae are more common in captivity, but they're also larger and (normally) more attractive, so there's a much greater demand for them. Pythons are in a completely different ballpark, as demand for them is huge compared to any gecko. 

Amyae are regularly available for $300-500 (and snapped up at that price) while all of the asper that I've personally heard of being bought have gone for $400-600. A fair price is what someone's prepared to pay for them. If you think you can get $1,500 for a sub-adult pair, then advertise them for that and you might get a buyer. I think you'd have a chance of finding someone keen enough to pay that, but I don't think you'd sell many pairs at that price.

Matt


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## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

No not really think $1500 for a subadult pair - its just had a few people asking me & I basically say "Don't know". But all feed back is welcome as I have no idea. However you are right I guess based on demand. I guess when the time comes I might just do an advert of "Make an offer"


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## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

Jason said:


> imo the price people pay for geckoes these days is a bit of a joke!!
> 
> id think for that species 500 would be a more realistic price!
> just as i think normal knobs should only be about 60 each! i just think they are to much!!



LMAO - Yeh right


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## Magpie (Apr 27, 2007)

I'll give you $200 for them


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## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

Now he is attractive Matt.


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## ari (Apr 27, 2007)

Magpie said:


> I'll give you $200 for them



LMAO - Yeh double right .


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## MrSpike (Apr 27, 2007)

ari said:


> Now he is attractive Matt.



Oh I love them!

Kane


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## Glider (Apr 28, 2007)

I suppose I'm a little biased because I want some and I don't want you to set the price so I have to mortgage my house to buy them 

But yes, I think it has a lot to do with supply and demand. There will always be enthusiasts prepared to pay outrageous prices for rare and unusual animals for the sake of having something rare and unusual, which will keep the price high for the other people who would very much enjoy keeping them but simply can't afford that kind of outlay. 

Personally I think that Asper arent nearly as attractive as Amyae, which I think has at least partially contributes to why they're rarer than the Amyae. They're more expensive and not as pretty so perhaps people go for the Amyae, leading to more being bred.

I'd be prepared to pay more for an Asper, but not much more, because they are rarer and I'd like to have a variety in my collection, but other than that I think the Amyae are better and worth more.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Glider said:


> I'd be prepared to pay more for an Asper, but not much more, because they are rarer and I'd like to have a variety in my collection, but other than that I think the Amyae are better and worth more.



I don't think Amyae are worth more at all......in a few years they will drop in price due to a large supply in the hobby same as what happened to BHP & Womas.


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## Glider (Apr 29, 2007)

I think Amyae are worth more to me in comparison to Asper, but I dont mean I think they are worth $1500 a pair. Personally I think they prices for them are pretty shocking and offputting.

I'm very much looking forward to the price drop when the supply increases because I like them for what they are, not just because they're expensive and somewhat elite.


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## Aslan (Apr 29, 2007)

I think the fact that people are willing to pay that money shows that perhaps they like them for what they are as well...


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

Hey guys, my view is that it comes down to the actual animals for sale. If they are obvious asper as per (hey pun!) DrNicks and Geckoadz then they are worth the extra bucks. 
On the other hand if they are nondescript "maybes" possibly a product of the days when they were all classed as asper then that's another story.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

fishead said:


> Hey guys, my view is that it comes down to the actual animals for sale. If they are obvious asper as per (hey pun!) DrNicks and Geckoadz then they are worth the extra bucks.
> On the other hand if they are nondescript "maybes" possibly a product of the days when they were all classed as asper then that's another story.



What are obvious Asper Fishead???


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

Ones that you don't have to post pics of and ask what they are.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

How many pics do you want me to post Fishead? Lets see yours!!!


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

Why so defensive mate?


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

fishead said:


> Ones that you don't have to post pics of and ask what they are.



I aint defensive, however the above post could cause irritation. Needless to say when I asked what is obvious Asper to you I wasn't being smart I was asking a genuine question to which I got the above reply.


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

My missus says I'm prone to cause irritation. hahhaaa
I mean half amyae looking. ie. orangey, half barred toes etc.
I know asper from some areas can be orangey like amyae but my point is why pay all those extra bucks for a critter that looks like a not so brightly coloured amyae and has no guarantee of authenticity.


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## Rocket (Apr 29, 2007)

Tryo can obviously charge what ever he wants but for a Captive bred Subadult (Definite Asper) Pair- $1500 is a good price imo. 

But Troy, keep in mind that if I become interested, you need to do mates rates and take off, say- $1400....???


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## MrSpike (Apr 29, 2007)

$700 - $900 is a fair price IMO.

Kane


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## romper_stomper (Apr 29, 2007)

ive heard of female amyae going for as much as $1000 each lately


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

fishead said:


> My missus says I'm prone to cause irritation. hahhaaa
> I mean half amyae looking. ie. orangey, half barred toes etc.
> I know asper from some areas can be orangey like amyae but my point is why pay all those extra bucks for a critter that looks like a not so brightly coloured amyae and has no guarantee of authenticity.



I know what you mean - but mine are 100% authentic Asper.......its as obvious as hell.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Hey Fishead

You probably know this anyway but banding on the feet is not the main 100% guarantee its Asper, as Amyae also have banding. Its to do with snout to vent length, but mainly to do with the cluster of spines & the length of the central spine on the rump that distinguishes Asper from Amyae. The main forms are the Dajarra Asper & the typical gray/black white noduled barring on the back which is what I have.

Dajarra Asper can be suspect but once you actually see a Dajarra Asper next to an Amyae the difference is very significant.


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## Zanejb (Apr 29, 2007)

sell them for at least $1200 i reckon, the more exspesive the animal is the better as itll hold its status. i mean its good when animals become cheap but it sucks when they get too cheap as they then become common and then they lose value ( from a price point of view). Im a small time breeder so i dont breed many animals but i know people that depend on the success of there animals as its there life and when people sell animals too cheap then other people have to drop prices and an animal that once cost you alot of money a few years ago is only worth 50% and thats not good for the pet trade.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

fisheads point is valid troy...for years amyae and asper were kept under the one group known as asper..Amyae did not exist.Amyae and Asper were kept and bred together.Due to the mixing of the species in captivity probably explains why they both can carry similar traits..So with all the breeding under one species for years how can one say they are %100 Asper..I beleive that amyae and Asper should be the same in price...Did you not yourself question your asper, when you posted a thread a while back asking peoples opinion on wether your geckos were amyae or asper ???


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

I no way am I saying that your are not asper,i am just pointing out the fact that fishead has made a valid point...


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Ian I never said Fisheads point wasn't valid & I agree with what you are saying. However if you read through the posts you will see where he named 2 x individuals in his opinion had obvious Asper, now based on what he has said I am asking a simple question - how does he define obvious?

Because I am taking it that he is saying mine aren't obvious which would in my opinion cause frustration to the guy who I brought my breeding pair off - who is know by everyone nationally.
Infact I also believe that Rocket also has taken it that way also by his post in brackets.

Furthermore yes I also was questioning the differences in past posts along with others & from that have got a good understanding of the difference.

And yes I have heard various things about Amyae & Asper interbreeding but am yet to see such a specimen - have you?


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Furthermore Ian

The past post re Asper & Amyae were different specimens to my black/grey asper, and as you are aware were orange/red Dajarra Asper which definately caused reasons for questioning. Furthermore those Dajarra Asper were sold to me as Amyae by a person who frequents this site - he will remain nameless as he didn't know himself that they weren't Amyae.


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## reptyle (Apr 29, 2007)

hi everyone,
sure asper look similar to amyae but i believe that the pricing is fairly appropriate. $300-$500 seems the appropriate price for hatchling amyae. $400-$800 for asper. obviously it depends on the quality of the animals, but the higher the demand the higher the price tends to be. just because they look similar doesent mean that they should go for the same price either. if N.sheai was bought into captivity, you wouldnt expect them to go for the same price, but instead much higher.
Ari, you mentioned a dajarra asper(orangy coloured one) would look very different to an amyae. does anyone have any pics of the 2 because i would love to see the differences. thanks

all geckos seem to be relatively high priced because of how fascinating they are. especially the knob tails. i just recieved a pair of amyae today and i can say they werent cheep, but they were worth every dollar. im sure a lot of people share the same views!
well, anyways.....in reply to the question of this post, i think that a guarenteed sub-adult pair of asper would go for the$1200-$1500 mark. 

cheers, ian


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

ari said:


> Furthermore Ian
> 
> The past post re Asper & Amyae were different specimens to my black/grey asper, and as you are aware were orange/red Dajarra Asper which definately caused reasons for questioning. Furthermore those Dajarra Asper were sold to me as Amyae by a person who frequents this site - he will remain nameless as he didn't know himself that they weren't Amyae.



I rest my case on that issue. Now who is sounding annoying???


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

This is a Dajarra Asper............Toad has a fantastic shot of an Amyae & a Dajarra Asper together - difference is obvious


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

fishead said:


> I rest my case on that issue. Now who is sounding annoying???



That was back in Aug last year that post, not the present & I think that post explained it pretty well. All I am saying is that the difference is pretty obvious when you have kept Dajarra Asper, Black/Grey Asper & Amyae. Its OBVIOUS whos annoying.


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## reptyle (Apr 29, 2007)

thanks for that Ari, appreciate it. where are you Toad  would love to see the pic of the 2 together. dont be shy, hehe


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

thats the point troy..amyae are being sold as asper and asper as amyae..How do you know you have not seen an interbred one???...there are amyae and asper that carry traits of both..You yourself had to ask peoples opinion on some of your animals and there was a broad sectrum of what the difference is..I my opinion amyae and asper should be the same price as there are 2 many maybe animals out there...


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Ian - you are correct I am not disagreeing with you......what I am asking is inrelation to how Fishead determines OBVIOUS as he stated with the 2 x individuals named on page 1.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

cool ....so you will sell me a pair of asper for the same price as amyae...LOL..after all you said you agree with me and i did say that they should be the same price...LOL..When will they arrive....


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Yeh right.......LOL.........I know mine are Asper. But can you understand what I am trying to ask? Anyway this has turned into a fantastic post. On the subject has anyone actually got a pic of a mutant Asper/Amyae & is there any proof of the interbreeding actually recorded anywhere?


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

I beleive you will not find any records on an interbred as they were all breds as asper years ago,so the amyae that were in captivity were on the books as asper..It wasn't until later on when the 2 species became seperate that people started to try and tell if there animals were asper or amyae..Most of what was in captivity at the time were more then likely already interbreds,this is why some are so hard to define I believe..If you go back to the dajarra you posted with the question over them, they themselves are not obvious asper...You might be able to answer this but if i have heard correctly they are now believe there is a natural interbreeding of the 2 species causing it to be even more of a headache...So if you are looking for a standout obvious interbred,I don't think it is going to be some altogether different looking knobtail,it is going to look much like some that are in captivity now.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Cheers

Curious what about interbred forms like Nephrurus Levis/Pilbarensis & even Occidentalis?

And the different Marmorata forms?


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

I'll write this slowly for you Troy ..... read my posts again, no where did I question the aspers on page 1. They are beauties. When I first posted I don't think you even had pics posted? 
You covered what makes an asper very well in an earlier post, I don't need to rewrite that. An animal with those attributes would to me be an obvious asper. I'm no expert but if i was going to throw a heap of money at some asper I would want the animals to meet the definition of an asper. You stated in another post that you yourself have had animals that were questionable. 
What did you sell those animals as?


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

have you heard anything about there being a natural interbreeding that occurs around the most eastern range of the amyae and the most south western range of the asper??I have only heard this,don't take it as gospel..I mean who knows troy there might well be natural interbreeding of the different sub species of geckos whos range overlaps or finishes close to the others.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

@ Fishead - I will write EXTRA EXTRA slow for you so you can see what I am saying - I sold them as Dajarra Asper as they were Dajarra Asper as per many experts advice & if you had seen them in the flesh then you would know that they were definately Asper.

@Sparticus - No I haven't but seriously I hear "hear say stuff" all the time and until I actually see a mating of a Amyae & a Asper & then see the offspring I wouldn't be 100% convinced that the interbreeding can or does occur. However saying that I can't see why it wouldn't be possible but then God works in mysteries ways. I wonder if there is a mutant Human / Gorilla out there.
Seriously though does anyone really know by fact on any of this?


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## mungus (Apr 29, 2007)

Buy a Diamond :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

hahhaa Troy you are biting well mate.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

so how did you come up with a locality for the asper that were sold to you as amyae?? I think this is a fair question...If they didn't even know they were asper in the first place how can you put a locality on them??


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Yeh would love to.

Actually this is a interesting story & the reason why I aint 100% convinced about this interbreed stuff due to lack of proof. When I first bought my Amyae which turned out to be Dajarra Asper - way before I invested in a pair of black/grey Asper. I purchased a female Amyae from the NT & as soon as I got here & compared her to the existing Amyae (Dajarra Asper) I noticed a difference but was told that it was just Amyae - strangely enough I had the Amyae female in with the male Amyae(Dajarra Asper) & it didn't matter which male I introduced she would not mate with them - she avoided them like the plague.

Finally I got clarification from an expert in reptiles & who is pretty well know by many that it wasn't Amyae but Dajarra Asper and the difference was explained to me and a few others. The expert saw the specimen in person. Knowing this I seperated them straight away & was happy all was clarified & that the female didn't show any interest in the Dajarra.

Then I got a male Amyae which looked exactly like an Amyae - put him in with the NT female & they pretty well mated straight away. This is the only example I have but from this I truly believed she showed no interested in the other Amyae (Dajarra Asper) because she knew there was a difference.

I know longer have any Dajarra Asper & they were all sold off as Dajarra Asper & a notification was advised to QLD EPA & original movement advices amended from Amyae to Asper (Dajarra or Red Asper)

Hope this makes sense.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

sparticus said:


> so how did you come up with a locality for the asper that were sold to you as amyae?? I think this is a fair question...If they didn't even know they were asper in the first place how can you put a locality on them??



Rob Porter clarified all of this after seeing the specimens in person. When they were sold to me as Amyae there was never a locality put on them Ian, they were purchased & sold to me as Amyae. Clarification after knowing they were Dajarra Asper was forth coming from Rob Porter with whom I would never question. He has seen them before in the wild & knew straight away what they were & emailed pictures to various other Asper breeders who also determined them to be from Dajarra. Mind you I never even knew where Dajarra was.

So I have seen the difference & once the variances were pointed out it was pretty obvious - I knew there was something odd about them. They never grew large stayed at 85cm STV & were orange/brown coloured with small spine clusters on the rump.....pretty tiny actually.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

so if asper and amyae came under the one banner and were kept together it is very likely they bred together..One such instance does not in anyway suggest they don't..As you are aware females have been known to refuse the advances of a male even when she is ready to breed..


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## fishead (Apr 29, 2007)

I'm hearing you sparticus. If I had a screamer black and white jungle it's not automatically a Julatten is it. putting a specific locality label on an animal without all the facts just doesn't sit well with me. But hey what do I know?
Anyhow just to get back on track, critter prices have a range according to visual appeal, age, history, bloodline etc. The aspers you pictured Troy are fine looking, healthy, grown to sexable size, have a traceable history to a respected breeder (i presume) so would be in big demand amongst geckoheads. In my opinion they'd be worth every bit of $1500 if hatchy pairs of amyae are pulling $1000.


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## geckodan (Apr 29, 2007)

""I don't think Amyae are worth more at all......in a few years they will drop in price due to a large supply in the hobby same as what happened to BHP & Womas.""

In reality, amyae have actually got more expensive as they have become more popular. They started at $250 each 9 years ago when I collected my first 14 animals and have steadily increased due to demand outstripping supply. 

My price for asper will be $400 each next season. My price for amyae will be $300 each. I can't see the point in jacking up the price so that these species end up only in the hands of the rich and not in the hands of the capable (but do not waste your time pm'ing me as I am not taking orders until September). There has never been any justification for the prices being paid other than that individual sniffing out a proposed means of making a quick buck. It does the hobby no good at all.


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## reptyle (Apr 29, 2007)

im enjoying where this post is going. interesting stuff. nice work guys


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## reptyle (Apr 29, 2007)

just out of curiosity, compared to asper and amyae...what sort of prices are deleani and stellatus going for when and if they are ever available. sorry its a bit off topic, just curious as to what the even less common nephrurus species are going for. 
you make some good points there danny. just because people can afford the amyae and asper doesent mean they are going into reliable hands. i also agree with why the prices are so high. the demand greatly out numbers the supply resulting in higher prices.

thanks, ian


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

could not have said it better myself...


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## geckodan (Apr 29, 2007)

I have only one documented case of a small amyae male over an asper female - eggs were fertile but failed to hatch. Does it happen often - not really. I think you would be hard pushed to find a hybrid animal in the system.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

so do you believe it to be like the birds..eg some of the finches,they can hybridise but only on the rarest of occasions...what about when they were all under the same species listing(asper),do you think that any of the asper and amyae that are in captivity now could be from hybridisation between the 2 species,since there was defining line between asper and amyae years ago?? Some just seem to carry traits of both...


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## reptyle (Apr 29, 2007)

any chance someone could lay out the most distinctive features that are different between amyae and asper. And if hybridisation has occured (im not saying it has, just 'IF') then what would be the features that would enable you to identify that it was a hybrid. is that makeing any sense, lol. its probably impossible to answer but if someone could then i would love to hear about it. 
thanks, ian


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

What you guys are actually forgetting is that this post was to get others feedback related to prices. And yes I gather $400 is a suitable price for an unsexable juvenile - but it was based on a sexable subadult pair not unsexable juveniles.

And furthermore how can you seriously distinguish between who is rich & who is capable, are you talking about rich in assets or in cash flow? It doesn't mean selling something cheap means its going to be looked after any better than at a higher price. Thats absolutely obsurd. So you are basically saying that any individual who is rich is possibly not capable of looking after or breeding a specimen? I was always under the impression that if things are too cheap then they aren't necessarily looked after as well as there is less loss. Strange when you go to the kennels to help out you always see lots of bitsas but rarely any purebreds. To be honest how rich or how poor an individual is makes absolutely no difference - its all based on the person & everyones different.

Its like studying & working you learn at individual levels & learn from mistakes when keeping anything & get feedback from others to improve.

"I have only one documented case of a small amyae male over an asper female - eggs were fertile but failed to hatch. Does it happen often - not really. I think you would be hard pushed to find a hybrid animal in the system."

Kinda puts a boot in the theory hey Sparticus.


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## geckodan (Apr 29, 2007)

asper and amyae were only ever grouped together for reasons of taxonomic laziness. Your realistic likelihood is about the same as a vitticeps/barbata hybrid in ability but significantly rarer as it is unlikely for the animals to be kept together. This may be more likely in the case of red asper/amyae but my feeling is that they simply prefer not to interbreed. I would hazard to guess what a hybrid red asper/amyae may appear like or what criteria to use to distinguish pure from inmpure.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks for the input Danny........but I do kinda disagree on the rich & capable thing.


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## geckodan (Apr 29, 2007)

"""And furthermore how can you seriously distinguish between who is rich & who is capable, are you talking about rich in assets or in cash flow? It doesn't mean selling something cheap means its going to be looked after any better than at a higher price. Thats absolutely obsurd. So you are basically saying that any individual who is rich is possibly not capable of looking after or breeding a specimen? I was always under the impression that if things are too cheap then they aren't necessarily looked after as well as there is less loss. Strange when you go to the kennels to help out you always see lots of bitsas but rarely any purebreds. To be honest how rich or how poor an individual is makes absolutely no difference - its all based on the person & everyones different.""

Based on my experience with the bird and reptile game over 25 years, anything of high demand , high price and low supply is always more likely to be purchased by someone with the financial means but that these individuals have often not done the hard yards with cheaper species first (because they haven't needed to start at the bottom) and thus are less experienced. I can documented dozens of cases where species of birds have all but died out in the hands of the rich and inexperienced and only in their last throws of death have been resurrected when put back in the hands of an experience -rich, finance-poor individual .


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

LOL..yeh I guess it does put the boot into my theory LOL..which I am glad it was reconised as a theory and that I wasn't saying it was fact,but hey if you don't ask these questions one can never learn..


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Yeh but come on you can't say that all rich people are not capable.......thats stereotyping.
Plus what makes you think a poor person can't afford something thats $1500+ in a price tag.......its called saving or using credit.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Thats cool Ian


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Anyway I agree to disagree as I don't want this to turn into another misting scenario.......LOL

Its all good Dazza.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 29, 2007)

At what price does something become only for the rich?
I would imagine that a levis for $150 would be out of reach to some individuals.That being the case why arent they cheaper? 

Im really poor so I wish someone Danny would breed GTP's and sell them really cheap to me because I would look after them well.


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## ari (Apr 29, 2007)

Ramsayi

If you can afford a Levis for $150 then you would probably be classified as above rich, bordering on being a multi millionaire - so sorry your not capable................LOL


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## geckodan (Apr 29, 2007)

20 years ago when we started with our miserable 5 species of geckos that were readily available, everyone started at the bottom. Now gecko breeders are spoilt for choice. Nobody is obliged to start at the bottom any more not because gecko breeding has necessarily become easier but because more stock in the "higher" end is offered for sale. I still see people who have $600 to spend and get two salebrosus as there first geckos and I shake my head. These people would do much better to purchase 2-3 pairs of velvets, learn a bit about life and death in the gecko world and after a year or two then go for harder to keep species.
Personally, despite keeping most gecko species available for 20 years I still baulk at paying over $1000 pr for geckos. For those that think levis are too expensive, start with Christinus marmoratus ot tryoni or milli. Make you mistakes without doing your dough. You will ultimately be less disillusioned by it all at the end and stay in the hobby much longer. 
As for GTP's, I wouldn't dare own them for at least another few years as I don't think I have the snake experience yet. But I do know a beginner who bought a pair with some workers compo money as his first snakes. I did the post mortems. When GTP's drop in price enough for all to afford it will be because enough is known about them to make them "commoner" and subsequently , warrant a lower priceThere will always be "rich" individuals that buy expensive "because they can" . This does not discount that rich, experienced people exist BUT they are fewer and further between. Another 18 years in the game Troy, and you will see the pattern for yourself.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

a fine example was when all the new bird keepers went nuts over the new gouldian mutations 20 years ago and started buying them without any previous experience in keeping finches..alot of good mutations were nearly lost due to fact it was the status symbol of having that particular bird and not the experience and know how to keep it..


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## Rocket (Apr 29, 2007)

and what were those miserable 5 species Danny?


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## Ramsayi (Apr 29, 2007)

Ultimately it is the BUYERS who set the price.The last couple of seasons we got countless emails/phonecalls from people wanting or should I say begging to buy clutch pairs of amyae and offering $1000 or more.One particular person offered $1500.We didnt sell them at those prices but my point is there are people willing to spend that much on them.


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

it can also work the other way if one seller hears that someone got $1200 for a pair of amyae naturally most are going to try and get the same...what choice then does the buyer have then to offer above that price to try and sure up a deal....


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## Ramsayi (Apr 29, 2007)

sparticus said:


> it can also work the other way if one seller hears that someone got $1200 for a pair of amyae naturally most are going to try and get the same...what choice then does the buyer have then to offer above that price to try and sure up a deal....



Maybe but in the instances I described the people offering more didn't end up with any anyway.The ones that got them were the ones that asked well in advance and were patient.


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## Twiggz (Apr 29, 2007)

geckodan said:


> Nobody is obliged to start at the bottom any more not because gecko breeding has necessarily become easier but because more stock in the "higher" end is offered for sale. I still see people who have $600 to spend and get two salebrosus as there first geckos and I shake my head. These people would do much better to purchase 2-3 pairs of velvets, learn a bit about life and death in the gecko world and after a year or two then go for harder to keep species.
> For those that think levis are too expensive, start with Christinus marmoratus ot tryoni or milli. Make you mistakes without doing your dough.
> As for GTP's, I wouldn't dare own them for at least another few years as I don't think I have the snake experience yet. But I do know a beginner who bought a pair with some workers compo money as his first snakes. I did the post mortems. When GTP's drop in price enough for all to afford it will be because enough is known about them to make them "commoner" and subsequently , warrant a lower priceThere will always be "rich" individuals that buy expensive "because they can" . This does not discount that rich, experienced people exist BUT they are fewer and further between.


 


I am 110% behind the issues your portraying here Danny. 
Anyone who goes out buying top end gex/snakes or any species of animal without first having experience with a basic/easier species is just purely asking for trouble. 

Getting in over your head without first being able to swim is not a good move. JMO


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## sparticus (Apr 29, 2007)

what about sellers auctioning off higher demand animals,it is there animals and there rights to do so..But inevitably with people bartering over a reptile the price will be pushed up above market value...


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## Twiggz (Apr 30, 2007)

Bugger......ok i agree on that Ian.
The only way i see the auction scenario working is if its done purely by PM. Mind you thinking about it lately i have come up with a thought.

Why not get a third party to run such. That way the seller can't play the interested field, jacking prices up. Individuals will be left to pay what they feel comfortable paying/offering. Naturally a benchmark would be set by the seller and i guess some commission may be involved for the third party possibly. Just an idea......haven't really thought about it to much


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## Twiggz (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm in no way accusing anyone of purposely hiking prices when they auction.....but it does make outsiders wonder......and as Ian has mentioned it can inflate prices for everyone else.


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## sparticus (Apr 30, 2007)

why else would they auction other then to get top dollar and to get the highest price possible..I couldn't imagine someone offering $1500 and another offering $2000 and the $2000 dollar person being told they lost the auction to the $1500 bid?????As I said its there animals and there rights to sell in this way,but I don't agree with it that my opinion though..


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## geckodan (Apr 30, 2007)

Rocket said:


> and what were those miserable 5 species Danny?



Bynoes, tryoni, milli, Christinus marmoratus, castelnaui - the same 5 starter sp we have now


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## reptyle (Apr 30, 2007)

by all means continue this discussion....its very interesting but lets remember what the origional purpose of the post was. "fair price for asper". have you got the answer you were after Ari?
cheers, ian


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## ari (Apr 30, 2007)

Yeh got the answer thanks Reptyle. Thanks to all.......well I guess all...LOL


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## reptyle (Apr 30, 2007)

no worries. i have to admit it was a very interesting discussion and by all means continue if you have more to add. 
cheers, ian


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## sparticus (Apr 30, 2007)

yeh I just want to know when the asper for the same price as amyae are landing on my door....hehe


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## Toad (May 4, 2007)

Here are some pics as questioned.........

1st Pic is 1 pr of Amyae and 1 male Dajarra Asper, 
2nd pic male Amyae & Dajarra Asper, 
3rd pic rear end of Dajarra Asper 
and last pic rear end of Amyae.

Any more questions for Troy?


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## Saz (May 4, 2007)

I'd have to agree that the difference is really obvious once you see the two species together, a good friend of mine purchased one of Troy's Dajarra asper males and compared to her amyae male the asper looks like a little gremlin LOL! Acts like one too, has an ego that WAY exceeds his stature, hehehe!


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## aurea23 (May 4, 2007)

*asper / amyae*

You guys are lucky to even think about these...

I wish us victorians could keep either species.... For now i will have to live with levis occidentalis and pilbarensis....

If they ever come on i will get some

cheers
mike


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## ari (May 4, 2007)

God I can't believe this thread is still going and with soooooo soooooo many discussion in the one. FANTASTIC - Its great when you are right...........LMAO


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## Toad (May 4, 2007)

So Troy have you got an answer to your question about what people think they are worth???


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## ari (May 4, 2007)

Vague but here goes.... If you pay to much for them then there is a possibility they will die because you aren't capable. However if I sell them to you cheap & you actually tell me your poor then I would seriously believe you to be more than capable. Infact if I give them away then you would have to be the most poverty striken person which leans me to believe that they would be going to good hands - golly that was an effort.

Toad are you poor or rich - be careful how you answer that question oki?


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## Gecko :) (May 4, 2007)

Hi Guys,

I am buying my first pair of hatcjie Amyaes and cant really find much info on them, and the info I have found all seams to vary quiet a bit?!
I have some ifo, but just wanted an idea on how other Amyae keepers have their set up?
They will be 5 weeks old,
Is a light as well as a heat mat necessary? and what temp?..Day/night
When they are older, what temp do you cool them to , and when do you start to cool them?

Like I said any other info would be good, as I want to learn as much about them as possible 
They are great !!!, I love them, and cant wait to get them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Guys

P.s this post has been great ! it has taught me a fair bit bout the differance between Amyae & Asper!, they are very differant to look at

And all the pics are great!

.... well done Ari for a great post!!! By the way have you sold your Aspers?, I would love to buy Aspers soon, prob not for a while yet, these Amayes have sent me broke!!, but they are worth it!!!!, I wanna start savin so I can buy a few more - I have the Gecko bug!!!!


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## Kratos (May 5, 2007)

Im very poor ari, can i have some?


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## reptyle (May 5, 2007)

'gecko'- im am no expert but i just recently got a young pair of amyae as well. i am housing them seperatly with a heat cord underneath each of the tanks. they have a hide at both ends (one on the warm spot and one on the cool spot) just keep it quite basic so it is easy for them to find there food.
ps. be careful because before you know it you wont be able to stop buying them, lol. trust me, hehe
goodluck, ian


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## Toad (May 5, 2007)

Troy, mate, buddy, pal............ come on now you know I have limited funds :lol: :lol:   :lol: not like some........................


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## Gecko :) (May 5, 2007)

*Knob-tail Gecko BuG *




reptyle said:


> 'gecko'- im am no expert but i just recently got a young pair of amyae as well. i am housing them seperatly with a heat cord underneath each of the tanks. they have a hide at both ends (one on the warm spot and one on the cool spot) just keep it quite basic so it is easy for them to find there food.





reptyle said:


> ps. be careful because before you know it you wont be able to stop buying them, lol. trust me, hehe
> goodluck, ian




Hey Ian, 

Thanks for the info
I was going to keep them on a heat mat, ... what size enclosure/container do you have them in atm?
I cant wait to get them, .. I already have the Gecko bug!!, I want more!, but cant afford it, as I have just spent all the money I had on these 2 amyae, ... so I had better start saving again,.. cause I need to get 1 more Levis to make up my Trio, and I am hoping to eventually one day get some more amy... at least 1 more to make up trio....and maybe even one day some Asper 
They are all soooo gorgeous!!, .. I love them all!
Cant wait till tomorrow, .. I get my first 2 Amyae!


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## Gecko :) (May 5, 2007)

*Ari *

*How much you wanna sell them for?...I ll start saving *
*Or dont suppos eyou wanna swap em for some maccys or coastals *

*.... WoRtH a TrY? ! *


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## reptyle (May 7, 2007)

yep, a heat mat will work fine. i just use a heat cord cause i have a few tanks and that way i only need one.
the amyae i got a couple of weeks ago are only quite young. i have them individually housed in tanks about 1ft long. they seem to be happy. housing them seperatly means its easier to keep an eye on what they eat which is important when they are young. they can be housed together but. just comes down to what suits you best really. me levis are housed in pairs and they are going great so yer. just make sure you check they are eating.
haha, they sure do put a whole in your wallet but they are definetly worth it. be sure to post some pics when you get them.
if you want some more info there is a great article about amyae/asper in a reptiles australia magazine. im sure you could order a back issue. it outlines all the basic requirements and is a great read.
it would be fantastic to get some asper one day. hopefully it wont be too far away.
goodluck with your new geckos!!!

ps. for the first few days just keep them in a nice quite place where they wont be disturbed too much. that way they can settle in and should adapt to their new home more quickly.


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