# Poachers Using Published Data For Endangered Animals.



## RoryBreaker (May 27, 2017)

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-27/poachers-anu-canberra-endangered-animals/8565182


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## dragonlover1 (May 27, 2017)

crap,we can't say anything anymore or else the scumbags will get into it

So from now on we say I saw X at Y and it was beautiful ?.....doesn't that go against all the the things we have been trying to promote?
People are always asking for for herp locations,do we now keep all our locations secret?
FFFF scumbags piss me off


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## GBWhite (May 27, 2017)

Always keep locations secret. I actually cringe when I see people answering queries on locations. It's a pity that this has to be the case but what's described in the article has always been the same ever since I started looking at herps back in the 60's. Over the years I've seen countless pristine locations absolutely decimated by collectors and those wishing to photograph specific species. I can't recall the number of times over the years I've gone to an area to have a look around and/or to do field work and instead ended up spending the day putting flipped rocks and logs back into their original position.


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## Nero Egernia (May 27, 2017)

GBWhite said:


> Always keep locations secret. I actually cringe when I see people answering queries on locations. It's a pity that this has to be the case but what's described in the article has always been the same ever since I started looking at herps back in the 60's. Over the years I've seen countless pristine locations absolutely decimated by collectors and those wishing to photograph specific species. I can't recall the number of times over the years I've gone to an area to have a look around and/or to do field work and instead ended up spending the day putting flipped rocks and logs back into their original position.



It's sad that it has come to this. As a child I distinctively remember bush walking with my Nanna. She loved looking at the orchids and wildflowers, while I loved searching for reptiles and creepy crawlies under rocks and logs. One of the first things she drummed into my head was to place back these objects the same way I found them so as not to destroy their homes.


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## Wally (May 27, 2017)

Typical crims. To effing lazy to do the leg work......


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## Yellowtail (May 28, 2017)

They are not all lazy. I do a lot of off track bushwalking and I regularly see evidence of illegal activities. One such spot, a remote bluff in the Kuringai National Park 2k and a lot of tough climbing from the nearest track of any sort, much further from the nearest fire trail and 8k from nearest vehicle access. Every flat piece of rock was overturned presumably by someone looking for broad heads or geckos, and the usual rubbish left behind.


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## pythoninfinite (May 28, 2017)

One of the sad results of WA allowing a wild take of Stimson's Pythons for so many years has been the wrecking of a huge number of wheatbelt granite outcrops...

Jamie


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## NickGeee (Jun 4, 2017)

Aprasia would not be targeted by poachers.


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## GBWhite (Jun 10, 2017)

NickGeee said:


> Aprasia would not be targeted by poachers.


 
I'm not so sure about that Nick? It's surprising what people want and the measures some will take to obtain them. I'm sure you're aware that there is a lucrative black market, both here and offshore, for species of Aussie herps that are classified as endangered and not readily available. This would include Aprasia parapulchella.

In fact, anybody collecting reptiles without the appropriate permit is a poacher. Doesn't matter if they are removing them for private collections or financial gain. Hobbyists, dealers or smugglers...if they are removing animals from the wild without authority...it's poaching.

Cheers.


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## NickGeee (Jun 25, 2017)

Aprasia are tiny and wormlike lizards that live under rocks. They are exclusively fossorial and would not make interesting captives, and to top it off they require active ant colonies to survive. I heavily doubt anyone would go about taking them for hobby purposes or even for the 'black market'. 


GBWhite said:


> I'm not so sure about that Nick? It's surprising what people want and the measures some will take to obtain them. I'm sure you're aware that there is a lucrative black market, both here and offshore, for species of Aussie herps that are classified as endangered and not readily available. This would include Aprasia parapulchella.
> 
> In fact, anybody collecting reptiles without the appropriate permit is a poacher. Doesn't matter if they are removing them for private collections or financial gain. Hobbyists, dealers or smugglers...if they are removing animals from the wild without authority...it's poaching.
> 
> Cheers.


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## GBWhite (Jun 25, 2017)

NickGeee said:


> Aprasia are tiny and wormlike lizards that live under rocks. They are exclusively fossorial and would not make interesting captives, and to top it off they require active ant colonies to survive. I heavily doubt anyone would go about taking them for hobby purposes or even for the 'black market'.



Yeah I know what they are and what they look like. I used to get them sent to me from Victoria many years ago (A striolata) . I was also involved in some field research with A parapulchella out around West Wyalong back in the early 1990's.

Naturally you're entitled to your opinion Nick and can doubt as much as you like but without saying too much, as I said before it might be surprising to find out what people like to keep and what others want. What might not seem interesting to some have others seeking to acquire. 

What I will say is, that they can be kept in captivity provided one has the right set up & access to an active ant colony. They can be kept successfully on a diet of Black House Ant (Ochetellus glaber) eggs. These ants are very common in homes and gardens across both urban and rural Australia.


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## azzmilan (Oct 9, 2017)

It's heart breaking to know that good published science has been used this way.

Would love stricter penalties for anyone caught doing this.


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## Foozil (Oct 9, 2017)

Same with native orchids. Sites like ALA readily show nearly exact locations of orchids, many endangered.
Please, when submitting sightings of any native flora & fauna on sites like ALA, *DON'T PROVIDE EXACT LOCATIONS

**to the public*


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## Bushfire (Oct 9, 2017)

Its a catch 22 really. I wouldnt give out the advice of dont provide the exact location. Many organisations and gov agencies make decisions based on desk top studies. Wrong or misleading information could put small populations at greater risk. Its probably a better avenue to push public databases like ALA to broaden their senisive species policies. Maybe something like record the exact location but publish publicly grid squares instead of point data but authorised users can access point data.


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## Foozil (Oct 10, 2017)

I agree, I probably should've worded that better.


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