# Accelerated Growth Rate And Power Feeding



## Nero Egernia (Apr 14, 2017)

I've heard that accelerated growth rate through power feeding, or just by over feeding can be detrimental to reptiles. Even alter their appearance, such as pythons that have grown too fast have big bodies and tiny heads, or blue tongues have massive heads and small bodies. What exactly is power feeding? Why does it result with these physical changes - do the animals not even out once they acquire their adult length? Is it at all detrimental to their health and in what ways?

I was thinking of acquiring a hatchling python soon, and I don't want to grow it too fast if it happens to be a garbage guts. I've never really thought about it with my lizards as they seem to be growing at a somewhat normal rate. Not to mention I generally acquire my animals as sub-adult or adults.


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## pinefamily (Apr 14, 2017)

Not sure about the effects of power feeding lizards, or if it is even possible, but with pythons it can have some health issues if not managed properly. Why people would want their python larger more quickly I don't know.
With the head v. body size, I believe it has as much to do with prey size as power feeding. I have seen pythons which have been fed appropriate prey size and have large heads and "skinny" bodies.


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## Allan (Apr 14, 2017)

Being opportunistic feeders, power feeding occurs in a way in the wild as well when there is plenty of food around one season. This is balanced out when there are seasons with less food around (eg. drought)
The problem is when people overfeed in order to get them up to mating size asap. I remember someone selling hatchlings from a Woma "line" that could reproduce at 18 months of age. There were mixed reports about their health...
Go slow. The heat is down for my animals atm, soon feeding will stop and I don't start them up until September (just like in the wild) Some of my pythons are 20 years+


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## Wally (Apr 14, 2017)

To expand a little on what Allan has said, reptiles in the wild are doing far more to actually catch their prey also. Reptiles held captive are not exercising anywhere near what their wild brethren are.


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## kittycat17 (Apr 14, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Not sure about the effects of power feeding lizards, or if it is even possible, but with pythons it can have some health issues if not managed properly. Why people would want their python larger more quickly I don't know.
> With the head v. body size, I believe it has as much to do with prey size as power feeding. I have seen pythons which have been fed appropriate prey size and have large heads and "skinny" bodies.



Well people wanting there Python larger quicker would be for quicker turn around with breeding

I feed my hatchies weekly, females that I'm putting weight back on weekly and everything else fortnightly - 3 aeekly 


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2017)

Some of this is not even about breeding its often ego...'My snake's bigger than your snake'


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## Yellowtail (Apr 14, 2017)

Further to what Allan and Wally posted, most power feeding is to bring females to breeding size asap. While snakes in the wild will gorge when an abundance of prey is available they are not doing this for long continuous periods and don't feed over cooler months. The amount of fat in captive bred rodents that have no exercise is many times that of the lean native prey that our snakes have evolved to consume, over feeding causes a massive overload on kidneys, liver etc to remove all the toxins and if this is continual it will lead to organ damage and greatly reduced lifespan. But the power feeder gets to breed 2yr old females and does not care about the long term damage.


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## Wally (Apr 14, 2017)

After a slow start to the long weekend, a good topic for discussion Oshkii.


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 14, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Why people would want their python larger more quickly I don't know.
> With the head v. body size, I believe it has as much to do with prey size as power feeding. I have seen pythons which have been fed appropriate prey size and have large heads and "skinny" bodies.



I would be keen to see what an individual would look like when full grown. I understand pythons can change quite a bit in regards to colour from hatchling to adult. But I certainly wouldn't want it to grow too fast, especially if it's going to harm the animal. I've read that pythons that reach their full length too quickly have small heads and large bodies. Is this a physical trait in the skeletal structure or is it simply that the animal is overweight?



Yellowtail said:


> The amount of fat in captive bred rodents that have no exercise is many times that of the lean native prey that our snakes have evolved to consume, over feeding causes a massive overload on kidneys, liver etc to remove all the toxins and if this is continual it will lead to organ damage and greatly reduced lifespan. But the power feeder gets to breed 2yr old females and does not care about the long term damage.



If this is the case, why do some breeders power feed their females? If they're suffering from health problems, how do they manage to breed?



Wally said:


> After a slow start to the long weekend, a good topic for discussion Oshkii.



No worries, Wally. Thought we needed something interesting seeing as there's been a few generic "noobie" topics lately. Nah, just kidding. I'm generally curious and have had little experience with pythons and their growth rates. I've noticed that with my two adult males one is shorter in length, lighter in build, but has a bigger, squarer head, whereas the other is longer, heavier but has a smaller, more delicate head.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2017)

I think some people overfeed without realising it. I have heard so many times that someone feeds twice or more a week because otherwise their snake gets cranky and can't be handled. (Is this not like giving a junkie an extra shot to keep then easy to manage?)
There are lots of stories of the famed 'pinhead' though I have not seen one personally. My thoughts are somewhat different to the standard if this is even a real thing.......If pinhead exists I think it might be that snakes are fed food items too small for them to develop muscle in the head in line with body growth. Feeding 6 pinkies instead of a decent sized mouse for example is never going to be of any great benefit to the animal if done on a regular basis.
Fat snakes however are common as are overgrown yearlings/2 year olds. As mentioned earlier being fat for a snake is as bad if not worse than it is for a human being. One of the factors that I believe to be responsible is that some keepers refuse to brumate their animals. Without that annual downtime to rest from the constant feeding/growing/sloughing the organs are put under more stress by being fed extra unnecessary food. If an animal is fed for an extra 3/4 months per year is it not fair to assume that the animal might age at a faster rate? So a 12 year old snake could have organs that have done the work of a 15-16 year old animal?
As Wally & Yellowtail pointed out the prey we feed is often not as lean as they would find naturally and captives are often kept in conditions where they can't/don't need any great level of exercise. 
Just my thoughts on the subject but as Wally said....good discussion point


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## Allan (Apr 14, 2017)

Wild pythons usually have a parasite load in their guts as well, regulating growth to some extent. This is not a bad thing as long as the balance between host and parasite is optimal, something you wouldn't have in captivity though.
Paul, I have never seen a pinhead either. Fat snakes in small cages, yes, but no pinheads. Pics anyone???


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## Wally (Apr 14, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> I think some people overfeed without realising it. I have heard so many times that someone feeds twice or more a week because otherwise their snake gets cranky and can't be handled. (Is this not like giving a junkie an extra shot to keep then easy to manage?)
> There are lots of stories of the famed 'pinhead' though I have not seen one personally. My thoughts are somewhat different to the standard if this is even a real thing.......If pinhead exists I think it might be that snakes are fed food items too small for them to develop muscle in the head in line with body growth. Feeding 6 pinkies instead of a decent sized mouse for example is never going to be of any great benefit to the animal if done on a regular basis.
> Fat snakes however are common as are overgrown yearlings/2 year olds. As mentioned earlier being fat for a snake is as bad if not worse than it is for a human being. One of the factors that I believe to be responsible is that some keepers refuse to brumate their animals. Without that annual downtime to rest from the constant feeding/growing/sloughing the organs are put under more stress by being fed extra unnecessary food. If an animal is fed for an extra 3/4 months per year is it not fair to assume that the animal might age at a faster rate? So a 12 year old snake could have organs that have done the work of a 15-16 year old animal?
> As Wally & Yellowtail pointed out the prey we feed is often not as lean as they would find naturally and captives are often kept in conditions where they can't/don't need any great level of exercise.
> Just my thoughts on the subject but as Wally said....good discussion point



I think those with a basic to intermediate understanding of python husbandry in captivity would be a little surprised as to how they can be fed successfully and healthy.

A sniff of an oily rag comes to mind if you've just got one in a tank to look at.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 14, 2017)

Wally said:


> I think those with a basic to intermediate understanding of python husbandry in captivity would be a little surprised as to how they can be fed successfully and healthy.
> 
> A sniff of an oily rag comes to mind if you've just got one in a tank to look at.



I agree Wally. I get some strange looks from some people when they find out how little I feed my adult Diamonds........Theres one very sensitive species when it comes to overfeeding.


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## Snapped (Apr 15, 2017)

Interesting topic, I tend to err on the side of caution and feed (my adults) every 3 weeks, sometimes fortnightly in Spring when they are ravenous and roaming around hunting. Hatchies are every 5-7 days, depending on the snake.

Does anyone have pics of an underweight snake? Or a healthy looking snake, rather than fat? It's a bit harder with snakes I think to tell if they are a little underweight (as opposed to a dog etc) I'd be interested to see what people class as underweight, normal, overfed etc, going by the look, not the weight.


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 15, 2017)

I thought this male was underweight when I first acquired him. His skin felt loose and crinkly. He's since then put on a fair amount of weight and his skin feels smoother, more firm. I was trying to feed him up before brumation. But perhaps he was never underweight at all?


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## kittycat17 (Apr 15, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I thought this male was underweight when I first acquired him. His skin felt loose and crinkly. He's since then put on a fair amount of weight and his skin feels smoother and more firm. I was trying to feed him up before brumation. But perhaps he was never underweight at all?
> 
> View attachment 320361



Off topic but wow he's stunning [emoji7] 


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## Yellowtail (Apr 15, 2017)

You should be able to see spinal ridge and body not too rounded


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## kittycat17 (Apr 15, 2017)

This boy was under a kilo in this pic and it was the day before I had him euthanised, he had inoperable intestinal tumours 


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## kittycat17 (Apr 15, 2017)

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## Yellowtail (Apr 15, 2017)

This one is a little overweight, she was skinny when I got her and I have probably fed her too much.


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## Snapped (Apr 15, 2017)

That's really helpful, I was a little worried my Albino Darwin juvie was slightly on the thin side, but he looks the same as your Albino Yellowtail. 

Kittycat, so sorry you had to do that, how sad. 

Oshkii, yeah, the loose skin would have worried me too, unless he was dehydrated or coming up to a shed.... How is he looking now, do you have a comparison photo?


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 15, 2017)

Snapped said:


> Oshkii, yeah, the loose skin would have worried me too, unless he was dehydrated or coming up to a shed.... How is he looking now, do you have a comparison photo?



He wasn't coming up to a shed back then. As far as I'm aware he's been eating and drinking fine. Always been a ravenous feeder, even on the first night home he was keen for a meal. I'll see if I can take some new photos soon, as he's currently in the shedding process, so just leaving him alone until he's finished.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 15, 2017)

Snakes get most of their fluid from their food. As we freeze their food a lot of the moisture is lost so I find its better to soak food before feeding.
Seems to take care of most of the problem shedders I've had


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## pinefamily (Apr 16, 2017)

Thawing the food in a bowl of hot tap water makes it nice and wet.


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## reen08 (Apr 16, 2017)

This is a really good conversation to have. First of all, I am so sorry for your loss kittykat. It's always extremely difficult when the time comes to lose a much loved family member.

Could you please tell me how you came to know she had intestinal tumors? She looks great in the pics. I take mine to the vet every 6 months for a health check. While they are only 1 and 3 years old, I hope they stay healthy for a long time.

Also what do everyone feed their snakes?
I only feed my girls the Pisces rats from the lab. Maybe it's me being paranoid. I don't believe the backyard breeders are as stringent in cleanliness as a lab would be. Am I wrong or are there backyarders out there that do have excellent set ups?


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## kittycat17 (Apr 16, 2017)

reen08 said:


> This is a really good conversation to have. First of all, I am so sorry for your loss kittykat. It's always extremely difficult when the time comes to lose a much loved family member.
> 
> Could you please tell me how you came to know she had intestinal tumors? She looks great in the pics. I take mine to the vet every 6 months for a health check. While they are only 1 and 3 years old, I hope they stay healthy for a long time.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately the intestinal tumours weren't found until th necropsy 
But he had stopped eating 6-8 mths before hand and would regurge anything force fed 
He lost so much weight and was 850gms when we euthanised him, he was a 5 year old coastal Carpet Python, visually he looked dull and was in a lot of pain  
It wasn't till towards the end that the extremes weight loss enabled us to see lumps around his intestinal area 







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## Nero Egernia (Apr 16, 2017)

Pauls_Pythons said:


> Snakes get most of their fluid from their food. As we freeze their food a lot of the moisture is lost so I find its better to soak food before feeding.
> Seems to take care of most of the problem shedders I've had



I always thaw my frozen food in warm water. The grey male pictured above appears to become quite excited when I run hot water from the tap (his enclosure is in the kitchen), even if it's not for feeding.



reen08 said:


> Also what do everyone feed their snakes?
> I only feed my girls the Pisces rats from the lab. Maybe it's me being paranoid. I don't believe the backyard breeders are as stringent in cleanliness as a lab would be. Am I wrong or are there backyarders out there that do have excellent set ups?



I happen to be one of those "backyard" breeders. My snakes and lizards are generally fed nothing else but what I grow or collect myself. No issues so far. My snakes are fed rodents and quail, although I'm aiming to have quail as their main food source.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Apr 16, 2017)

reen08 said:


> Also what do everyone feed their snakes?
> I only feed my girls the Pisces rats from the lab. Maybe it's me being paranoid. I don't believe the backyard breeders are as stringent in cleanliness as a lab would be. Am I wrong or are there backyarders out there that do have excellent set ups?



Well here is something to make you think.........I refuse to use Pisces food and will only use what you refer too as 'Back Yard Breeders'. I have had Pisces stuff that I have binned because it appeared to me to be mushy and off colour once thawed. 
And this is not an isolated case there a plenty of people who feel the same. Many of the breeders you refer to would be happy to give new buyers a tour of their facility, see if Pisces will do the same or even talk to you about what they feed the animals.


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## pinefamily (Apr 16, 2017)

When we bred our own rats, we were particular about their tubs being clean, and what food we fed them. Plenty of fresh fruit and veg, as well as Laucke's rat and mice pellets. Had a go with quails, mostly unsuccessfully; might try again down the track. Rabbits are our aim now; less growing time, and they smell a lot better than rats.


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 16, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Rabbits are our aim now; less growing time, and they smell a lot better than rats.



What's it like breeding rabbits? Does calcivirus effect them?


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## GBWhite (Apr 16, 2017)

People do have a bad habit of overfeeding snakes, and not just pythons. That scale separation in the last photo of a carpet that Yellowtail put up is an excellent example of a snake that is well over weight. You never see this in wild Carpets, even the really big ones that I regularly come across. Personally I think the albinos are also a little "chubby" as well. Not having a go, it's just my opinion.

I've been breeding rats and mice consistently for over 25 years using a mixture of only standard rat pellets & biomare. Never had an issue with the rodents or the snakes. Often end up with an oversupply of frozen rodents that I give away to friends.

I've also heard bad reports about Pisces' rodents.

George.


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## pinefamily (Apr 16, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> What's it like breeding rabbits? Does calcivirus effect them?


Once we have our breeding stock (carefully selected from breeders), we will keep a close eye on them. We didn't have an issue when we bred them before, but that was in the city.


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## Nero Egernia (Apr 17, 2017)

Sloughed last night. Skin feels nice and smooth.


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## Snapped (Apr 17, 2017)

Looking good Oshkii! Definitely a lot rounder than the previous pic


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## MANNING (Apr 17, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Rabbits are our aim now; less growing time, and they smell a lot better than rats.



Can be up to a $30k fine for keeping rabbits in Queensland

Although on the Pacific Motorway M1 border between Qld/Nsw the fine says $44k Max?


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## pinefamily (Apr 17, 2017)

Really? Not even as a pet?


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## Snapped (Apr 18, 2017)

not even allowed as pets up there in Qld


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## pinefamily (Apr 18, 2017)

Wow. It's almost a given that as a kid you have a pet rabbit in SA.


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## MANNING (Apr 18, 2017)

That last picture was from a google image search, Ill see this arvo if i can get a snap of the one that I pass when i cross back into QLD.
Funny that the law is soo different between states


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## reen08 (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm not bagging backyard breeders. I was thinking between a lab and home grown would be different cleanliness. Those in the know could you please tell me the info on Pisces. I don't want to feed my pythons rubbish. With rats, quail and rabbit what would be more beneficial heath wise for a jungle carpet. Would one have more vitamins than a different one?


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## pinefamily (Apr 18, 2017)

Rabbit and quail are leaner than rats.


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## MANNING (Apr 18, 2017)

Thought it was $44k


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## SKYWLKR (Apr 20, 2017)

My time to chime in. On the subject of power feeding vs frequent feeding... If you Google those words then you'll find numerous videos on YouTube as to the definition. It all comes down to how fast you want your snake to grow compared to the "average" growth rate for that species (or hybrid, mixed, jag, outcross, pure... whichever). As said previously in this thread, feeding snakes is much different to feeding a warm-blooded animal. And the general 'sheeple' out there are quick to judge you, when you tell them how frequent (or infrequent) you feed your family pet. So I believe there's that unwanted stigma as well to factor in when it comes to how often each keeper feeds their snake. My rule of thumb is a hungry (not starving) snake is a happy snake. Besides, if you lived your life confined to a 4 foot by 2 foot room, you wouldn't need a Sizzlers buffet every single week to keep you going...!


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## kittycat17 (May 6, 2017)

Hey guys just thought I'd follow up with a pic of the new snake I've just taken on from NPWS through the recent ballot.... he/she is sitting at 7.5Kgs and defintely being put on a diet 
I'm assuming it's a very well loved pet hence the size 







For context, she/he is about as wide as 1.25L coke bottle, maybe bigger 


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## butters (May 6, 2017)

Pretty sure there was a study undertaken at Sydney uni on power feeding. Not sure if the info is still on this site but it was at one stage.

From memory they found no issues regarding health between those power fed and those not.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 6, 2017)

butters said:


> Pretty sure there was a study undertaken at Sydney uni on power feeding. Not sure if the info is still on this site but it was at one stage.
> 
> From memory they found no issues regarding health between those power fed and those not.



I don't really have any interest in a uni study to be honest as it means little more than nothing.
And in my opinion promoting the behavior of over feeding disguised as power feeding to young keepers is negligent!


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## butters (May 6, 2017)

So a scientific study carries no weight?

An overweight snake is just as bad healthwise as an overweight human. No question that it is detrimental to the organisms health.

Power feeding doesn't necessarily mean an overweight animal though. If kept in optimum conditions for metabolism and growth then food should be converted to growth not weight. 
This will depend on age and maturity. 
If an animal is getting fat rather than growing then it shouldn't continue to be fed in the same manner. 
There is a difference between feeding the animal too much and feeding it at an optimal level for growth which I thought was the aim of power feeding?

I'm not a power feeder but if the conditions are right and it's not maintained for the animals whole life then I don't have a problem with it. 
As stated in another post in the wild
sometimes conditions are equal to what we would term power feeding. They don't last forever though and shouldn't be in captivity either.

As long as the animal is actively growing what harm will it do? Given true seasonal temperature variations is important.

To me keeping an ectotherm at higher than normal temperatures and keeping metabolism elevated is more detrimental and will have more of a bearing on longevity. Live fast, die young.


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## Wally (May 6, 2017)

butters said:


> So a scientific study carries no weight?
> 
> An overweight snake is just as bad healthwise as an overweight human. No question that it is detrimental to the organisms health.
> 
> ...



A need for an animal to be big and strong to successfully pass on it's genetics in the wild is not the case for captive reptiles though.

Do the obvious health concerns for captive bred stock kept under optimum conditions outway this? Or are we just content knowing they will live and breed just fine if feed conservatively?

Or is the need to make a buck as quick as possible the most imperative part?


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 6, 2017)

And you never heard of a study that found beyond any doubt that product x is good for humans only for another study 2 years later to denounce all the findings? It happens all the time with products for the human food/health trade so how reliable are they when done for animals?

Like I said, you believe what you want, I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other.


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## butters (May 6, 2017)

Heard of plenty of studies like that. It's the nature of science and a lot studies would need to be done to see if the results are replicated. One study doesn't prove either way but it does make you think.

I was just trying to point out that over feeding and power feeding are not the same thing or shouldn't be. Power feeding is giving the optimum amount, over feeding is giving too much.

What are the health issues with power feeding?

Sorry Wally what are the obvious health concerns for captive stock?


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## Wally (May 7, 2017)

butters said:


> Sorry Wally what are the obvious health concerns for captive stock?



Most keepers ability to know that they have an overweight reptile on their hands. That and the fact it's stuck in a box.


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## butters (May 7, 2017)

Agreed.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 7, 2017)

Rapid growth in all animals leads to weakness of bones. Overworking internal organs to process excessive food of a reduced nutritional value puts excessive strain on internal organs.
Animals without the need or ability to burn off excessive calories leads to build up of fat, particularly around the liver.
'Power feeding' as its called normally leads to the animal being artificially heated in order to be fed through times that it should be resting, (brumation), a natural and essential part of the animals healthy cycle which again leads to more stress on organs that are designed to be rested for several months each year.

Then you have the group who overfeed because they think they are power feeding and if power feeding is good then feeding more must be better.
Really power feeding is not necessary, has no benefit to the animals. Can not help the animals in any way so even if it were doing no physical harm if it doesn't benefit them it has no place in captive keeping.


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## Wally (May 7, 2017)

Power feeding.....

That would be this bloke.

Probably uses up more energy eating than a Toyota Prius at full revs.


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## mrkos (May 7, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> I thought this male was underweight when I first acquired him. His skin felt loose and crinkly. He's since then put on a fair amount of weight and his skin feels smoother, more firm. I was trying to feed him up before brumation. But perhaps he was never underweight at all?
> 
> View attachment 320361


That looks like something you would find in png or the everglades in Florida nice Morelia


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## butters (May 7, 2017)

Totally agree that power feeding has no benefit to the animals. It's done purely for our selfish reasons.

I kind of agree with most of your points Paul but I would love to see some studies that actually back up the points. Overall I agree with you. The points where I don't is just nit picking so I won't bother. 

I have never power fed and in fact feed my snakes varied amounts at different intervals as I think it's more natural. I give all of my animals a "real" seasonal cycle by supplying no night team heat year round. My snakes have pretty much stopped feeding now and won't eat again until August /September, even last seasons hatchies.


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## pinefamily (May 7, 2017)

Some really great points made here by all.
I think the key point is not to overfeed, whether "power-feeding" or just plain overfeeding through ignorance. And sad to say, for some, it IS all about the quick buck.


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## Scutellatus (May 7, 2017)

In regard to the study, it all depends on what the beliefs of the people are who do the study. If for example the people carrying out the study were practitioners of power feeding, a study confirming no ill effects carries no weight and will be seen as biased. But if they had the belief beforehand that power feeding was not in the best interests health wise for the snake and then found no ill health effects after conducting the study then the study would carry a lot of weight (pardon the pun).


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## pythoninfinite (May 7, 2017)

I think most of our captives are overfed pretty routinely. Snakes that is. As other experienced keepers have described their regimes, I don't have a regular feeding routine, the snakes just get fed when it's convenient for me, and feeds can be as much as 4-5 weeks apart sometimes. I do, however, bump the food intake up when preparing females for breeding, but not by much. Snake metabolism and metabolic rates reduce when food is not plentiful, they are not like mammals or birds which must have constant and substantial amounts of food regularly to maintain body temperature and energy outputs.

Jamie


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## Snapped (May 7, 2017)

kittycat17 said:


> Hey guys just thought I'd follow up with a pic of the new snake I've just taken on from NPWS through the recent ballot.... he/she is sitting at 7.5Kgs and defintely being put on a diet
> I'm assuming it's a very well loved pet hence the size
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, a little bit round hey lol


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## Ramsayi (May 7, 2017)

I wish people would refrain from referring to the UWS study.It was a relatively short study only done on anterasia and no follow up was ever done as to the longevity of the of the high intake group as far as I am aware.
I have the original data here somewhere and to be honest you could draw any conclusion you wanted from it.


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## butters (May 7, 2017)

It was a short study. Far too short to make any conclusions but it does raise questions for possible further study. Longevity would be one of them.

At one stage I worked in the aquarium industry commercially producing ornamental fish. 
Broodstock was grown quickly, kept at elevated temperatures year round and produced more progeny than those raised and treated in a more normal manner. 
They did not however live as long. In fact their lifespan was less than half that could be expected for that species kept at cooler
conditions.

Most Fish and reptiles are very different but are both ectotherms with metabolism a more similar than that of mammals. I've always wondered if similar trends would apply to reptiles.


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## Nero Egernia (Dec 10, 2017)

mrkos said:


> That looks like something you would find in png or the everglades in Florida nice Morelia



What do you mean, mrkos?



pythoninfinite said:


> I think most of our captives are overfed pretty routinely. Snakes that is. As other experienced keepers have described their regimes, I don't have a regular feeding routine, the snakes just get fed when it's convenient for me, and feeds can be as much as 4-5 weeks apart sometimes. I do, however, bump the food intake up when preparing females for breeding, but not by much. Snake metabolism and metabolic rates reduce when food is not plentiful, they are not like mammals or birds which must have constant and substantial amounts of food regularly to maintain body temperature and energy outputs.
> 
> Jamie



Very true. Many keepers, particularly those that have recently come into the hobby are too concerned with maintaining a strict feeding routine. I feed my animals when I deem appropriate. There's no set number or time. Missing a feed never hurts, and new keepers should not worry about it. Perhaps replicating a "boom" and "bust" when it comes to feeding would be beneficial to captive reptiles, rather than just a steady adequate supply, or just plain overfeeding. 

EDIT: Difficulty with words.
[doublepost=1512885632,1494170305][/doublepost]Just posting to do a followup in growth rate. I just acquired a three year old that's roughly 70 centimetres. Apparently it's been a poor feeder most of its life. It's smaller than my yearling which is roughly 90 centimetres. Interestingly, their heads are the same size but when it comes to length and width they're fairly different. Perhaps I've been feeding my yearling too much?

Here's a picture of the three year old after a feed. Would like to add that I've had no problems feeding. In fact, at the mere whiff of a mouse it turned into a ravenous little monster. Thoughts?


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## Yellowtail (Dec 10, 2017)

I've had similar slow feeders and found they generally catch up in size provided they start to feed enthusiastically young enough, I would up the food size to suit the 3 year old head and feed it as much as it will eat for the next 12 mths. You say it is ravenous with mice, how about rats? The head tends to develop in proportion to age with undersized snakes like yours, power fed snakes become pinheads with a big body but age proportionate head, probably related to calcium take up rate.


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## Nero Egernia (Dec 10, 2017)

Not sure how it will go with rats as I don't breed them. I should have some suitably sized quail soon. The photo was taken after feeding on a weaner, to be clear. He/she's now looking like a beached whale after having an adult mouse shortly after it was evident it was still hungry. At the first scent of mouse it was striking at everything and anything that moved, my hands, the lid of the tub being removed, etc. If I remember correctly according to the previous owner it was mostly force fed in the first two years. If it did happen to feed on its own it was on fuzzy mice apparently.

Do power fed snakes' heads become larger once the majority of the growing's done, or do they remain "pinheads" for the rest of their lives?


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## Yellowtail (Dec 10, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> Not sure how it will go with rats as I don't breed them. I should have some suitably sized quail soon. The photo was taken after feeding on a weaner, to be clear. He/she's now looking like a beached whale after having an adult mouse shortly after it was evident it was still hungry. At the first scent of mouse it was striking at everything and anything that moved, my hands, the lid of the tub being removed, etc. If I remember correctly according to the previous owner it was mostly force fed in the first two years. If it did happen to feed on its own it was on fuzzy mice apparently.
> 
> Do power fed snakes' heads become larger once the majority of the growing's done, or do they remain "pinheads" for the rest of their lives?


The head will grow larger as the snake matures with age but usually stays proportionally smaller than normal with a pumped up body that has high fat %, power fed snakes tend to develop kidney and liver problems and die young.


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