# Microclimate Failures



## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

AAAARRRGHHHH!!!!!!! I had a microclimate thermostat fail this morning! It was controlling one of my heat panels an a GTP enclosure. 

When I took the dog out for a whiz at 5am everything seemed OK. Then at 6:30 I could smell burning plastic coming from the herp room. The heat panel had got so hot that it started to burn. The enclosure had completely filled with smoke! I quickly got the animal out and put her outside in some fresh air. She seems ok, but I'll have to wait and see unfortunately...

It's a shame I didn't keep the receipt. Though the thermo had been running for 3 years or so.. Has anyone else had microclimate thermo's fail before???:x


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## AllThingsReptile (Sep 27, 2010)

ohh dude thats sux... ive had my thermostat fail but its not a microclimate??


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## Chicken (Sep 27, 2010)

ahh bummer! hope she' s ok mate :evil::evil::x:x


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## Ozzie Python (Sep 27, 2010)

i've had a few b1's fail in the past, but still have many running. not a good thing when it happens if you're not there to catch it very soon after it happens.


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## TA1PAN (Sep 27, 2010)

ive had to return 3 of them in the past


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## cris (Sep 27, 2010)

I hope your snake is OK, i had a thermostat fail ages ago and never used them in enclosures since. 

Apart from the really expensive ones im pretty sure any thermostat can be expected to fail, i only use thermostats for incubators and use a switching thermostat as back up. If i was using them in an enclosure where overheating is a risk then i would also be using a back up.


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## sammy_sparkles (Sep 27, 2010)

omg that was so lucky you were to save her, i hope she will be ok. and thats dodgy as, maybe tak pics and stuff and send it to the company, maybe you can get a refund without a receipt?


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

cris said:


> I hope your snake is OK, i had a thermostat fail ages ago and never used them in enclosures since.
> 
> Apart from the really expensive ones im pretty sure any thermostat can be expected to fail, i only use thermostats for incubators and use a switching thermostat as back up. If i was using them in an enclosure where overheating is a risk then i would also be using a back up.


 

I've purposely been runnnig a thermo for each heater to avoid these problems. The thermo is rated to 600w! It's was only running 100w at under half power!


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## TA1PAN (Sep 27, 2010)

If you are going to try a different brand, i highly recommend Dalbarbs new thermostats. Dalbarb have there own range of reptile products now called lucky reptile. I just recently purchased one... and they are great! they are all digital readings,and have a built in thermometer.O also they start from $90


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## D3pro (Sep 27, 2010)

I would be freaking out if that happened to one of my snakes... I always use low watt heat sources for that reason... I can never trust thermostats lol


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## levis04 (Sep 27, 2010)

I have had two fail on me and both times the animals did not make it due to the intense heat. Was a very sad day!


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

D3pro said:


> I would be freaking out if that happened to one of my snakes... I always use low watt heat sources for that reason... I can never trust thermostats lol


 
I'm still freaking out!!! I wish I didn't have so much bloody work on! I'm not looking forward to going home and checking on her tonight!


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## Camo (Sep 27, 2010)

Oh god yes. I have had a few microclimates fail me. B2's and B2ME's


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## D3pro (Sep 27, 2010)

Kurto said:


> I'm still freaking out!!! I wish I didn't have so much bloody work on! I'm not looking forward to going home and checking on her tonight!


 
Do you have someone at home that can check on her?
I would of bought her to work with me.... well it helps that I work from home...


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

D3pro said:


> Do you have someone at home that can check on her?



Just my staffy!

Really there's not a lot I can do, unless I got to vet. Though I really cant see what they could do either..


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## D3pro (Sep 27, 2010)

crap kurto... did she have any burn marks? or was it too early to tell?


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## 1issie (Sep 27, 2010)

Do you have other GTPs,if not theres not much you can do,if so you could put her in with that one.


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

No burn marks, just excessive smoke inahaltion. Nice thick burnt plastic smoke.


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

1issie said:


> Do you have other GTPs,if not theres not much you can do,if so you could put her in with that one.


 

I have a few other empty enclosures.


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## dottyback (Sep 27, 2010)

I have had 3 poo themselves! I use DL1's now..a lot better!


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## guzzo (Sep 27, 2010)

Boy hope all goes well!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2010)

She will be ok. We had it happen to a fat female albino darwin that flipped her plastic hide ( trying to squeeze through a hole) onto a ceramic emitter, the whole cage was full of black smoke. We moved her to another cage for the day and she was fine. Even laid a nice clutch a few weeks after it happened.


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## Moreliavridis (Sep 27, 2010)

ive had a few fail on me aswell. Hope the GTP is well.


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## Kanga-Who (Sep 27, 2010)

I going to ask a dumb question......you say the enclosure was full of smoke, now I doubt if you had the thermostat in with the snake, so what wattage was the heat panel? Also I can't understand that even if the thermostat failed why there would be all the smoke at full power.....maybe a double failure.....


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## cockney red (Sep 27, 2010)

Dont use Thermo's, just low wattage and common sense...


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

Kanga-Who said:


> I going to ask a dumb question......you say the enclosure was full of smoke, now I doubt if you had the thermostat in with the snake, so what wattage was the heat panel? Also I can't understand that even if the thermostat failed why there would be all the smoke at full power.....maybe a double failure.....



The heat panel was 100w. The thermo failed and the plastic around the heat panel started melt and burn.



cockney red said:


> Dont use Thermo's, just low wattage and common sense...



Sorry but I have no clue what your on about.... How could using a thermostat to keep a gradient for a tropical species not be common sense? If I used a lower wattage heat panel I would struggle to keep the heat up, maybe not so much now that summer is coming, but during the 5 months of year it's not over 25 degrees.......


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2010)

Dont worry Kurto, most keepers with a valuable collections use thermostats. All ours cut out over a certain set maximum temperature.


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Dont worry Kurto, most keepers with a valuable collections use thermostats. All ours cut out over a certain set maximum temperature.


 
Just out of curiosity, what's your preferred thermo?

edit: I just saw your ad!


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## cockney red (Sep 27, 2010)

Sorry, should have put an I at the start of the sentence, Its a London thing...


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 27, 2010)

Kurto said:


> The heat panel was 100w. The thermo failed and the plastic around the heat panel started melt and burn.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I have no clue what your on about.... How could using a thermostat to keep a gradient for a tropical species not be common sense? If I used a lower wattage heat panel I would struggle to keep the heat up, maybe not so much now that summer is coming, but during the 5 months of year it's not over 25 degrees.......


I dont think he saying that, just that if you apply common sense in your choice of heating that you can get away without one


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> I dont think he saying that, just that if you apply common sense in your choice of heating that you can get away without one


 
maybe if I lived in a more temperate climate


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## cockney red (Sep 27, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Dont worry Kurto, most keepers with a valuable collections use thermostats. All ours cut out over a certain set maximum temperature.


 And the value has to do with what?


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 27, 2010)

Kurto said:


> maybe if I lived in a more temperate climate


 Yeah if I owned GTP's I would use one as well, they aren't as forgiving from what iv heard


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## JAS101 (Sep 27, 2010)

Kurto said:


> The heat panel was 100w. The thermo failed and the plastic around the heat panel started melt and burn.


 so what your saying is the heat pannel couldnt handle being on full bore for the hour or so u were away ?
or am i missing something .


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

The thermo may have failed earlier in the night, though I didn't open the enclosure until I smelled the burning plastic.


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## bigi (Sep 27, 2010)

Hey kurto, 
mate what was the thermostat, a dimming, pulse or an on off?
And
what make heat panel was it?


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

Microclimate B2 and a habistat heat panel.


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## mungus (Sep 27, 2010)

bloody hell Kurto !!!
Glad you got her out mate, i reckon she'll be right.
Fingers and toes crossed for you.
Aleks.


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

mungus said:


> bloody hell Kurto !!!
> Glad you got her out mate, i reckon she'll be right.
> Fingers and toes crossed for you.
> Aleks.


 
Yeah cheers mate, I've not long been home and she seems ok and very alert 

I'm just happy it happened while I was home! I could have lost everything!


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## JugoBoss (Sep 27, 2010)

I have never even owned a thermo and have never had a single problem. I have kept rarer species and lived in places which reached as low as 3deg at night


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## blakehose (Sep 27, 2010)

Hope your animal is ok mate, nothing worse than an electrical fault. I've had a few thermo's do it to me!


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## zulu (Sep 27, 2010)

Ive had a microclimate B1 fail and a habistat dimming type,also one of the habistat double on/offs.I now use what i have left of the microclimates and habistats and any replacements are other brands.When i started keeping herps back in the late 60s few people used thermostats and they used to sell the fish type ones and heating cable at herp meetings.
I find that its easier these days with decent thermostats espescially in hot weather and i like the dimming types.
I keep the GTPs in big tubs within enclosures kurto,it makes heating them in the very cold weather we get quicker and more efficient and they cant get access to heat device.
Onley drawback to keeping gtps like that is the general appearance and presentation etc.
Hope your GTP is fine.


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## J-A-X (Sep 27, 2010)

firstly id like to say i'm sorry to hear of your disaster Kurto, and i am glad to know that you managed to get her out in time and you've had chance to check on her and she appears ok,

BUT i'd like to add my voice to the vocal minority (below) i have never used, or will use, a thermostat. i have 6 Morelia spilota on heatcords. while i accept they are not as fragile as GTPs, they are a northern species kept in a ~3c winter climate, no they are not in tubs, one is in a 1800h x 1200w x 750d enclosure. i never intended to keep the entire enclosure at 'an ideal 10c temp gradient', she has a warm spot to digest, the rest is ambient room temp, (not heating in that room) and she is thriving,

I have been flamed via PM before for advocating 'not running thermostats', but it seems others are now following a 'common sense' approach of appropriate low wattage heating, !!!



cris said:


> . . . . i had a thermostat fail ages ago and never used them in enclosures since. . . .





D3pro said:


> ... I always use low watt heat sources for that reason... I can never trust thermostats lol





levis04 said:


> I have had two fail on me and both times the animals did not make it !





Jason.R said:


> ive had a few fail on me aswell.. . . . .





cockney red said:


> Dont use Thermo's, just low wattage and common sense...





Geckoman said:


> . . . its just that if you apply common sense in your choice of heating that you can get away without one





JugoBoss said:


> I have never even owned a thermo and have never had a single problem. I have kept rarer species and lived in places which reached as low as 3deg at night


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## Kurto (Sep 27, 2010)

it's interesting to hear from others that don't use a thermostat. But then again not everyone follows the same regime with their reptile keeping. 

Jaxfm which Morelia Spilota do you keep? Spilota spilota, spilota imbricata, spilota metaclfei would easily thrive under those conditions. Several of my male jungles would cease to eat if I kept them in such a way.....

Truth be told within the next few years and money permitting, I'd like to tile my herp room and use under floor heating and get rid of most of the individual heat sources....


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## J-A-X (Sep 27, 2010)

i have a mcdowelli and 5 variagata, all northern species, being kept in the chilly adelaide hills, and the coastal has underfloor heating, it just happens to be a shelf in her enclosure, not the whole room  and i will add more fuel to this debate by adding that the coastal (currently in the mansion) is nearly 3yo, jsut over 6ft long, and is being heated by a 25w heat cord.... yes twenty five watt... its not a typo. even with our chilly 2c winters here in the adelaide hills, she has not attempted to brumate, 
the variagata are in smaller juvi enclosures with a slightly different setup (5 different temp zones) but still only a 25w heat cord...
I agree it needs to be researched properly so that newbs dont throw a 100w ceramic in a 3ft tank with no thermostat and result in a cooked snake, 

my theory is 'a warm digesting spot and ambient room temp"... i dont understand 'there should only be 10c difference between hot and cold ends' theory that seems to abound around here, since when do snakes have a climate controlled environment where they naturally occur, the coastal will often come and sit on her tree when the room temp is only 12c ! 
I cant get to my pics as i'm away from home at the moment but i will 'subscribe' to this thread so i can find it when i get home on the weekend and show you pics of their setup


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## The Devil (Sep 27, 2010)

ZOOJAS said:


> so what your saying is the heat pannel couldnt handle being on full bore for the hour or so u were away ?
> or am i missing something .



Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.......my heat panels are only 75W and unless there was a short in the heat panel there is no way they would get anywhere near hot enough to melt plastic.

Someone else suggested a double failure and they might be on the right track.


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## 1issie (Sep 27, 2010)

put her in a empty enclosure with heat a stick or two should help her through the night>


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## Mr.James (Sep 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear, lucky that you where home when it happened. 

It doesn't really matter what type or brand thermostat you use there is always a risk it may fail or your heater may fail. Not a lot you can do apart from use a reputable brand, buy from a decent shop, use a good safety power board with surge protection (or use a surge protection power point) & use a low but practical wattage heater.

Some people use thermostats & they never fail.. Luck of the draw. I've had two fail but nothing happened just power went out. They blew a fuse inside the thermostat, still have one sitting here I replaced the fuse but can't get the casing back together.


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## cris (Sep 27, 2010)

Kurto said:


> Sorry but I have no clue what your on about.... How could using a thermostat to keep a gradient for a tropical species not be common sense? If I used a lower wattage heat panel I would struggle to keep the heat up, maybe not so much now that summer is coming, but during the 5 months of year it's not over 25 degrees.......


 
Thermostats are probably needed in cases like this, which is why i suggest using a switching thermostat as back up. I cant think of any other way to make things safer other than looking into really expensive thermostats.


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## spongebob (Sep 28, 2010)

I've used lots of microclimates over the years and they are my preferred thermostat-especially the pulse proportional B2. I agree with the comments about not using heat sources with too high a wattage. I did have one microclimate that failed on me years ago and that was on a reasonably high wattage mat that nearly caused a disaster so now I've scaled back. It's a pity that when they fail they fail on full bore. Much better that they "switch off". 

My only other issue is the price. Recently bought some more in the UK for 30 quid each.. That's $50 at the current exchange rate. Even with the hassle and cost of changing the plugs over it's a major saving.


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## Sock Puppet (Sep 28, 2010)

spongebob said:


> Recently bought some more in the UK for 30 quid each


What brands or type of thermos are these Bob? 

Has anyone used the Herpstat ND?
One of it's features apparently is


> Internal error detection shuts off heat if sensor fails or is disconnected.


This may be an option for those wanting to use a thermo but are concerned about it failing with the power still to the heat. 

I have a few things using Microclimate thermos at the moment, but it's all low wattage, no probs yet.


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## wokka (Sep 28, 2010)

A thermostat will not nessecarily stop fires or smoke, particularly in a GTP setup with top heat.Heat rises so any additional heat from a faulty heat scouce will take some time to effect the temperature at the probe which may be 3-400mm from the fire/smoke.

It would be interesting to know if the thermostat still works.


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Kurto, sorry to read of this just now... I do hope the critter is OK - if there are problems, and it's one that you got from me, let me know and I'll replace it down the track - I haven't bred any this year because I've been away heaps this winter, but I might have a crack at the greens later this year when I'm finished with the work I'm doing. They're pretty much non-seasonal breeders, so can be bred almost any time...

About enclosures, heating and thermostats. My adult greens are in 900x600x600 enclosures, I make my own heat panels out of 50W heat cords woven onto 25mmx25mm welded mesh, framed and covered with shadecloth. 50W is totally adequate for an enclosure that size, and I use an industrial refigeration thermostat which keeps them all at 29C, + or - 1C. I know nothing of electrics, but my friends who do, suggest that I could rum my entire collection on just one of these. From memory it cost less than $150 from an industrial thermostat outlet (I've been using it for 7 years now and it hasn't missed a beat) and I think it can be used for up to 3600W.

I'm always concerned when thermostats are relied on to control high wattage heat providers, it's always far safer to have an 'adequate' heat source, even if it means the temp may drop a little from time to time in the cooler months. If a thermo then fails, you are unlikely to cook your animal or burn the house down...

Jamie.


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## Kurto (Sep 28, 2010)

wokka said:


> A thermostat will not nessecarily stop fires or smoke, particularly in a GTP setup with top heat.Heat rises so any additional heat from a faulty heat scouce will take some time to effect the temperature at the probe which may be 3-400mm from the fire/smoke.
> 
> It would be interesting to know if the thermostat still works.


 
The thermo does not turn on or work in any way, though power was running through it, into the heat source. The probe was about 5cm under the panel and had been maintaining 32 degrees perfectly for quite some time.

I am not an electricition, I am merely trying to describe what I think happened. It may have been a double fault has some have suggested.


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## Kurto (Sep 28, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Hi Kurto, sorry to read of this just now... I do hope the critter is OK - if there are problems, and it's one that you got from me, let me know and I'll replace it down the track - I haven't bred any this year because I've been away heaps this winter, but I might have a crack at the greens later this year when I'm finished with the work I'm doing. They're pretty much non-seasonal breeders, so can be bred almost any time...
> 
> About enclosures, heating and thermostats. My adult greens are in 900x600x600 enclosures, I make my own heat panels out of 50W heat cords woven onto 25mmx25mm welded mesh, framed and covered with shadecloth. 50W is totally adequate for an enclosure that size, and I use an industrial refigeration thermostat which keeps them all at 29C, + or - 1C. I know nothing of electrics, but my friends who do, suggest that I could rum my entire collection on just one of these. From memory it cost less than $150 from an industrial thermostat outlet (I've been using it for 7 years now and it hasn't missed a beat) and I think it can be used for up to 3600W.
> 
> ...



Thanks Jamie. She seems ok. I was doing some feeding last night and she could smell the rat in the room and was very keen for a feed. So I think she might be ok. It just freaked me out to see the whole enclosure full of black smoke!


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## TigerCoastal (Sep 28, 2010)

so sorry to hear that kurto hope your slithery friend is ok! 
It does sound like a double fault, as the plastic in the heat panal would have to have been tested/rated to the maximum possible "normal" operating temp's for an extended period to try to stop stuff like that happening otherwise they leave themselves open to being sued, so the panel would have to have exceeded that temp to cause that kind of problem, the thermostat may have been controling the faulty heat panel to keep it below the danger temperature and once your thermo got stuck on thats when the problem got worse. Thats just my guess anyways.


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 28, 2010)

What TigerCoastal says makes sense. If I recall the heat panels are basically just piece of heat tape enclosed in a metal box? Is that correct?

The ones I make from heat cords woven onto mesh never get too hot because the cord itself is well ventilated, and because they're waterproof you can spray them directly to get an instant humidity boost. I'm using about 15 of them atm, the first I made back in 2003, and all have been totally trouble free (and less than half the price of the commercial panels).

Jamie.


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## Kurto (Sep 28, 2010)

Pythoninfinite said:


> What TigerCoastal says makes sense. If I recall the heat panels are basically just piece of heat tape enclosed in a metal box? Is that correct?
> 
> The ones I make from heat cords woven onto mesh never get too hot because the cord itself is well ventilated, and because they're waterproof you can spray them directly to get an instant humidity boost. I'm using about 15 of them atm, the first I made back in 2003, and all have been totally trouble free (and less than half the price of the commercial panels).
> 
> Jamie.


 
Have you got any pics Jamie? I've made one in the past but I doubt it was the most efficent way of doing so...


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## spongebob (Sep 28, 2010)

Sock Puppet said:


> What brands or type of thermos are these Bob?



Microclimate B2's from Swell reptiles.

Vivariums, Reptile Supplies & Live Food

and free delivery within UK! They also send around europe, but the drop down list doesn't include countries outside europe, but they may -you could give them a call. With other companies I've used they have also taken off the VAT (=GST) which at around 15% is a considerably saving and more than pays for the postage. If you call them ask about this. 

I must say the over priced australian cartels piss me off. I even bought a pond filter from the UK last year and even though the postage was around $200 still saved me.

Bob


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## Sock Puppet (Sep 28, 2010)

Cheers thanks mate. Getting some enclosures built so am investigating different 'stat options.


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## guzzo (Sep 28, 2010)

Boy luckily where I live my snake room (open air) temps are 33-34 day and 24-26 night.
I have a 60 wt bulb in one corner over a shelf on a timer for the dry season or if i turn the aircon on.

I would not know where to start with heating if I moved to a cold place.


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## ezekiel86 (Sep 28, 2010)

microclimate are not worth anything!
I have had all mine fail on me..and have totally got rid of them all... ( BIN JOB ) wouldnt even wont to sell them !
spent sooo much money on them..found the b2 was the one i had more trouble with!
hurd of lots of storys from turning on fulll...just dying...turning up so much they almost burn half the house down...
wouldnt ever use them again!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

We imported some microclimates from the UK in 2004. We imported 10 and I have only had 1 break because I dropped it on the ground just after disconnecting it from the wall. We found that the light sensors were not sensitive enough, we drilled the hole bigger for the light sensor and they worked better. They are good if all you need it to do is follow natural photoperiod cycles. They do not offer control over much more. We prefer using equipment these days that are fully programmable and that comes with safety features that prevents our animals from being toasted. We also use 100 watt ceramic emitters that will definitely kill animals if they are not controlled correctly. It helps to have a thermostat that cuts out all power if it gets to warm and has an alarm for when the temperature is too high or too low. Use of thermostats is vital when you live in a place like Melbourne and I wish we had the luxury of being able to keep our animals in outdoor enclosures like you guys up north. We also find that controlling an animals environment results in great success when it comes to breeding them.


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## cris (Sep 28, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> We prefer using equipment these days that are fully programmable and that comes with safety features that prevents our animals from being toasted.


 
What product/s? are you refering to?


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## ezekiel86 (Sep 28, 2010)

snap


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## crosswire (Sep 28, 2010)

I have a Microclimate Ministat 300 which has not been keeping the temps steady at all in my Jungles 70L click clacks for the past few days. It cuts out at 32 which is great but often isn't switching back on until 27. I have moved the 'sensor' on a couple of ocassions now without success. It was doing fine there for a while, I haven't changed anything in the setup?!?!?
Is it possibly faulty or are they all this unreliable?

(Sorry to hijack the thread)


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

Australian reptiles thermostat ( the fully programmable one), Microclimate ADCS2 and a few others! There are quite a few brands that have these in built safety features!


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## tonesanlainie (Sep 28, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Australian reptiles thermostat ( the fully programmable one), Microclimate ADCS2 and a few others! There are quite a few brands that have these in built safety features!


 Do you mean the ATC210? It is green and has an over temperature alarm? Australian Reptiles do sell these, as do other importers. PM me if anybody wants any (not trying to hijack thread, nor spruke).


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

It's the green one, they have quite a good range and I find them to be very accurate. They sometimes do overshoot and don't turn the power down fast enough. You also can't adjust the sensitivity level of the probe. It's a good affordable thermostat for a semi serious collection.


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## cris (Sep 28, 2010)

Crosswire, that is normal for a switching thermostat, for stable temperatures its best to use a dimming or pulse proportional thermostat.



CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> It's the green one, they have quite a good range and I find them to be very accurate. They sometimes do overshoot and don't turn the power down fast enough. You also can't adjust the sensitivity level of the probe. It's a good affordable thermostat for a semi serious collection.


 
While im not suggesting these are bad in comparison to other similar products (i use the cheaper blue ones), there have been others on this site complaining about problems with them not working properly. Never heard of the microclimate you suggest, what safety features does it have?


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## liney (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi all, have had 3 B1 microclimates fail on me- only 3 because they sent me replacements and I just wanted my money back. Brought the green ATC therms mentioned above and love it, so many functions and variations- HIGHLY recommend them. Microclimate arent worth it no more-TOO many failures.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

We also use the blue ones to run our juvenile racks, they seem to maintain the temperature very constant. The ADCS II is not manufactured by Microclimate anymore although you should be able to get one from URS still. The features are as follows:

Menu system for settings. Clock and 'magic eye' for night/day control ( You can run them with a magic eye or set it so you control the day/night time). Dimming or pulse proportional (You choose what you prefer to use) with overheat cut-out ( You have a high and low limit that triggers an alarm, these settings are independent of the overheat cut out. For example high: 32 and low: 25. Overheat can be set at 35 and the thermostat will switch all power of to the heating. It will return the power once the set value where the temperature should be at returns to where it should be). Comes with 1 sensor but can connect up to 4 in total. 7 day Min/Max temperature logging. Optional networking. 600W power handling. Size : 135* 130* 50mm (W * D * H) 
This piece of equipment works great in an incubator as you can put one probe outside the hatching tubs and the rest of the probes inside different hatching tubs. It sensors measure temperatures independantly. They can also be set to estimate an average through the incubator.


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## tonesanlainie (Sep 28, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> It's the green one, they have quite a good range and I find them to be very accurate. They sometimes do overshoot and don't turn the power down fast enough. You also can't adjust the sensitivity level of the probe. It's a good affordable thermostat for a semi serious collection.


 I think the setting under F4 allows for a callibration adjustment if there is interference or if you want to adjust the length of the sensor.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

tonesanlainie said:


> I think the setting under F4 allows for a callibration adjustment if there is interference or if you want to adjust the length of the sensor.


That setting is there to callibrate your thermostat with you thermometers. It does not change the sensitivity of the sensor itself.


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## tonesanlainie (Sep 28, 2010)

cris said:


> Crosswire, that is normal for a switching thermostat, for stable temperatures its best to use a dimming or pulse proportional thermostat.
> 
> 
> 
> While im not suggesting these are bad in comparison to other similar products (i use the cheaper blue ones), there have been others on this site complaining about problems with them not working properly. Never heard of the microclimate you suggest, what safety features does it have?


 Yeah I have found around 1% to be faulty or not set up correctly (the instructions supplied are crap). When they have in fact been faulty, it is due to them not providing heat. I have not seen any that don't switch heat off, and remember they do have an over temperature alarm. If they work from the beginning I have found them to be reliable. I like them for the functions they offer and bang for the buck. I do also use a separate thermometer as a double check however.


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## tonesanlainie (Sep 28, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> That setting is there to callibrate your thermostat with you thermometers. It does not change the sensitivity of the sensor itself.


 Yes that is true. Different heating methods can have different cycle requirements and the ATC210 doesn't allow for calibration as you say. Is there a thermostat that can do this within the requirements of most? I find the cycling you speak off changes with different heating methods.


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## cockney red (Sep 28, 2010)

Really dont understand why people use thermo's..you can use low wattage bulbs or whatever, to heat any spot to the required basking temp, they just stay on, Instead of going on or off or dimming ,or pulsing. And no cooked snakes...It was good enough True Blues collection, so Is good enough for mine.


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## rockstar_jones (Sep 28, 2010)

cockney red said:


> Really dont understand why people use thermo's..you can use low wattage bulbs or whatever, to heat any spot to the required basking temp, they just stay on, Instead of going on or off or dimming ,or pulsing. And no cooked snakes...It was good enough True Blues collection, so Is good enough for mine.



The problem which arrises with this is that a given bulb raises the temperature by a certain amount. For argument sake let's say a 65watt bulb raises the temp. by 12 degrees. This would be fine on days where the room temp is 20 degrees, the globe would raise the hot spot to 32. correct? But say you get a hot spike one day and the temp gets to 27degrees ambient, that would mean the bulb would raise the hot spot to 39. etc etc.

Could see problems arrising very easy with unregulated heat sources.


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## cris (Sep 28, 2010)

cockney red said:


> Really dont understand why people use thermo's..you can use low wattage bulbs or whatever, to heat any spot to the required basking temp, they just stay on, Instead of going on or off or dimming ,or pulsing. And no cooked snakes...It was good enough True Blues collection, so Is good enough for mine.


 
While i dont use thermostats for reptile enclosures, there would be cases where they are needed. For example if you keep a species that has very specific heating requirements and doesnt actively thermoregulate (this would exclude most species but not all). Even if you dont need them for enclosures incubators need them so having some sort of safe reliable thermostat is very important for most keepers.


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## cockney red (Sep 28, 2010)

rockstar_jones said:


> The problem which arrises with this is that a given bulb raises the temperature by a certain amount. For argument sake let's say a 65watt bulb raises the temp. by 12 degrees. This would be fine on days where the room temp is 20 degrees, the globe would raise the hot spot to 32. correct? But say you get a hot spike one day and the temp gets to 27degrees ambient, that would mean the bulb would raise the hot spot to 39. etc etc.
> 
> Could see problems arrising very easy with unregulated heat sources.[/QUOT
> You just give the snake several options to thermoregulate, None of mine would self destruct, they just pick their spot...


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

I would love to see how you handle a 46 deree day when you are not at home cockney red!


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## cockney red (Sep 28, 2010)

I might have a problem with that, Oh no, I know maybe the heat dont get put on... have negotiated all temps up to 48*


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## J-A-X (Sep 28, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> I would love to see how you handle a 46 deree day when you are not at home cockney red!


 
if you have a thermostat set to 35c (just an example) it will cut out at ~ 35c, and unless you have a thermostatically controlled aircon in the same room as the snakes then there is absolutely nothing stopping the enclosure raising to 46c. 
all my animals have an area in their tank that is 'below critical' where they can sit if the temp gets too much, extremely well ventilated, and if the outside temp is looking to go over 32 i dont turn the heat on and close all windows that get direct sunlight


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2010)

Cockney red: Tell that to the kid thats loses his collection because he was told by someone on a forum to not use thermostats. At least post photos so the people that do follow your advice can set up their systems properly?


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## cockney red (Sep 29, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Cockney red: Tell that to the kid thats loses his collection because he was told by someone on a forum to not use thermostats. At least post photos so the people that do follow your advice can set up their systems properly?


 I never told anyone to do anything, just said what I and a lot of other people do. All that anyone needs to know about heating, is not to use a heat source, far too great for their snake's housing, and rely on a thermostat to keep them from frying, Itried to find a link to the thread a year or two back when this was discussed in detail, Its not rocket Science...


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## GSXR_Boy (Sep 29, 2010)

cockney red said:


> I never told anyone to do anything, just said what I and a lot of other people do. All that anyone needs to know about heating, is not to use a heat source, far too great for their snake's housing, and rely on a thermostat to keep them from frying, Itried to find a link to the thread a year or two back when this was discussed in detail, Its not rocket Science...




Is this the one Lee?

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/trueblues-anti-thermostat-stand-59396/


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## cockney red (Sep 29, 2010)

Nice one Josh, couldn't find It for looking....


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## -Matt- (Sep 29, 2010)

It's definatly not rocket science. I also prefer the no thermostat way of doing things but some people don't understand the setup until they see it first hand. It's simple - a hot end and a cold end separated by a divider. The hot end is heated with a low wattage globe (whatever is suitable for your area) and the cold end always remains at room temperature as the whole back of the enclosure is pegboard which allows any excess heat to escape. However all heating is switched off if ambient room temperature is greater than 30 degrees. BUT there is no chance of overheating...even if the room reaches 40 degrees and the globe continues to run as the hot end will get very hot but the cold end is still at that ambient temp of 40.
If you are using a thermostat it is still going to be 40 degrees in that box type enclosure, but if that thermostat happens to fail and the globe comes on (and a great deal of people use very high wattage heating devices in small enclosures) it is then going to get well over 50 degrees resulting in the loss of the animal that cannot escape that heat.


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## cockney red (Sep 29, 2010)

Mattsnake said:


> It's definatly not rocket science. I also prefer the no thermostat way of doing things but some people don't understand the setup until they see it first hand. It's simple - a hot end and a cold end separated by a divider. The hot end is heated with a low wattage globe (whatever is suitable for your area) and the cold end always remains at room temperature as the whole back of the enclosure is pegboard which allows any excess heat to escape. However all heating is switched off if ambient room temperature is greater than 30 degrees. BUT there is no chance of overheating...even if the room reaches 40 degrees and the globe continues to run as the hot end will get very hot but the cold end is still at that ambient temp of 40.
> If you are using a thermostat it is still going to be 40 degrees in that box type enclosure, but if that thermostat happens to fail and the globe comes on (and a great deal of people use very high wattage heating devices in small enclosures) it is then going to get well over 50 degrees resulting in the loss of the animal that cannot escape that heat.


 Nuff said, Its Idiot proof....


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## zulu (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeh you could live in a cave also,ive embraced technology,been keeping reptiles longer than most people,stuff light bulbs! and manual switching,weather is severe where i live,lows are freezing point and highs are 43C.


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## cockney red (Sep 29, 2010)

zulu said:


> Yeh you could live in a cave also,ive embraced technology,been keeping reptiles longer than most people,stuff light bulbs! and manual switching,weather is severe where i live,lows are freezing point and highs are 43C.


 It can be any heat source, not just bulbs.....same weather here!


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## -Matt- (Sep 29, 2010)

As has been pointed out by this thread...technology fails. This method is fail proof.


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## J-A-X (Sep 30, 2010)

zulu said:


> Yeh you could live in a cave also,ive embraced technology,been keeping reptiles longer than most people,stuff light bulbs! and manual switching,weather is severe where i live,lows are freezing point and highs are 43C.





cockney red said:


> It can be any heat source, not just bulbs.....same weather here!


 
A lot of herpers, including myself, live with highly variable temps. This winter we had -3c and last summer we had 2 'heatwaves' of 40+ temps lasting 7 days+



Mattsnake said:


> As has been pointed out by this thread...technology fails. This method is fail proof.


 
I work with technology every single day, and i know how unreliable it can be, and i'm not about to risk my collection (all be it small) to a 10c part in a 'technololgy box' when i can simply flick a switch and make sure they cant overheat,

all my enclosure are set up with 'trueblues' theory, one has been applied a little differently but the outcome is the same, and having used this setup, with heatcords rather than lamps, there is no way i would use anything else,


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## TigerCoastal (Sep 30, 2010)

the more i am reading this thread the more you are converting me to the theory, but i have a question about it before i look at converting my set-ups. The ambient room temp where i have my snakes in winter sits at an average 15-17 degree's during the day but drops as low as 9 during the night (OLD house) in winter and a few days of 35+ in summer. What would work better in these conditions: use the peg board across the back all the way, hot side only or cool side only? Or should i run it all the way across the back and cover one side during winter?


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## Kurto (Sep 30, 2010)

"technology box"..... classic! Showing our age are we?


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## J-A-X (Sep 30, 2010)

TigerCoastal said:


> the more i am reading this thread the more you are converting me to the theory, but i have a question about it before i look at converting my set-ups. The ambient room temp where i have my snakes in winter sits at an average 15-17 degree's during the day but drops as low as 9 during the night (OLD house) in winter and a few days of 35+ in summer. What would work better in these conditions: use the peg board across the back all the way, hot side only or cool side only? Or should i run it all the way across the back and cover one side during winter?


 
PM sent so this thread doesn't get sidetracked


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## J-A-X (Sep 30, 2010)

Kurto said:


> "technology box"..... classic! Showing our age are we?


 

PMSL yeah probably, ( I've had a couple of '21st birthdays' ) but there are very few things without a microchip in them these days, so i've found it easier to refer to them as 'technology boxes', eg dishwasher, clothes washers, coffee makers, i can't even listen to the car stereo when im washing the car, there is so much 'behind the scenes' stuff happening that after an hour of musical washing, the battery hasn't enough left to start the car :shock:

lets just say i've been around long enough to know that relying on technology is not always a good thing..... now where did i park my horse and cart ????


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## TigerCoastal (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks Jax


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## bowdnboy (Sep 30, 2010)

Whoooa... what a discussion!

Anyway, my two bobs worth. At the end of the day, you always run the risk of thermos failing if u use them, but so far I never have. I choose to use low wattage globes - but more of them, on my day/night dimming thermo's, so if the thermo does go, it wont be too much of an issue, and I'll notice it at night when there still very bright, or low during day, vise - versa etcc..

However I must also say, unless Ive missed some, or those down south have very tightly regulated temp houses, most people who dont use thermo's seem to be from mid NSW up through QLD. Yes your day / night temps can vary considerably, but overall (in general) day to day can be pretty constant. Down here however, we can get weeks of varying temps from day to day from mid 20's to single figures to roaring 40's, so I believe thermos where I am from are needed. - Unless youve got a massive enclosure with a small heat spot where no matter the temp, your snake can get to wherever it wants.

Horses for courses.


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## wood_nymph (Sep 30, 2010)

i've had two fail, both within their warranty period, try claiming on it though- i just won't touch them anymore


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## J-A-X (Sep 30, 2010)

bowdnboy said:


> Whoooa... what a discussion!
> 
> However I must also say, unless Ive missed some, or those down south have very tightly regulated temp houses, most people who dont use thermo's seem to be from mid NSW up through QLD. Yes your day / night temps can vary considerably, but overall (in general) day to day can be pretty constant. Down here however, we can get weeks of varying temps from day to day from mid 20's to single figures to roaring 40's, so I believe thermos where I am from are needed. - Unless youve got a massive enclosure with a small heat spot where no matter the temp, your snake can get to wherever it wants.
> 
> Horses for courses.


 
 Yes i think you missed one... Mine ! I'm in the Adelaide Hills, and my house isn't climate controlled, i have the same temp setup as my snakes, a warm spot and whatever the ambient temp happens to be, :lol:
But you are spot on with the massive enclosure with a small heat spot, thats exactly what my Coastal has


Jaxrtfm said:


> A lot of herpers, including myself, live with highly variable temps. This winter we had -3c and last summer we had 2 'heatwaves' of 40+ temps lasting 7 days+


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## cris (Sep 30, 2010)

You dont need thermostats for most reptiles, even if you do live in areas with extreme temperatures. You simply provide access to heat and access to room temp that is well insulated from the heat. On hot days its important to turn of heating and sometimes provide cooling regardless of if a thermostat is used.


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## dangles (Oct 2, 2010)

wat sort of recomendations for cooling? Last summer we had days that hit 48C with night temps high 28s low 30s. Even using pegboard across the back wont lower below those ambient temps. Wouldnt want to lose my jungles due to excessive heat


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## mrkos (Oct 2, 2010)

ime hearin ya this forum is a strange and temperamental place at times, seems the real breeders and keepers are voicing their sought after opinions for once in a while


Jaxrtfm said:


> firstly id like to say i'm sorry to hear of your disaster Kurto, and i am glad to know that you managed to get her out in time and you've had chance to check on her and she appears ok,
> 
> BUT i'd like to add my voice to the vocal minority (below) i have never used, or will use, a thermostat. i have 6 Morelia spilota on heatcords. while i accept they are not as fragile as GTPs, they are a northern species kept in a ~3c winter climate, no they are not in tubs, one is in a 1800h x 1200w x 750d enclosure. i never intended to keep the entire enclosure at 'an ideal 10c temp gradient', she has a warm spot to digest, the rest is ambient room temp, (not heating in that room) and she is thriving,
> 
> I have been flamed via PM before for advocating 'not running thermostats', but it seems others are now following a 'common sense' approach of appropriate low wattage heating, !!!


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## Ramsayi (Oct 2, 2010)

I've found habistat thermostats are far more reliable than microclimates.
At the end of the day any mechanical or electrical item can fail.I would never consider running enclosures without thermostats.Running 100-150w globes or whatever is asking for trouble.


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## mrkos (Oct 2, 2010)

thermostats might be ok if used with a low wattage heat source for one or two snakes but if you are keen on the hobby and keep a number of snakes they are a waste of money unless incubating eggs. Its good to finally hear the experts voice their opinion./ True blues method is the best its fool proof and disaster proof makes everything simple all you need to set up a snake cage is someone who can wire up a globe . People get so carried away with overheating their snakes cooking the poor bloody things in the end. With a low wattage globe you really dont need a light cage either as most keepers experiencing burns these days seem to be from the light cages themselves around a high 60 - 80 watt globe


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## Ramsayi (Oct 2, 2010)

mrkos said:


> thermostats might be ok if used with a low wattage heat source for one or two snakes but if you are keen on the hobby and keep a number of snakes they are a waste of money unless incubating eggs. Its good to finally hear the experts voice their opinion./ True blues method is the best its fool proof and disaster proof makes everything simple all you need to set up a snake cage is someone who can wire up a globe . People get so carried away with overheating their snakes cooking the poor bloody things in the end. With a low wattage globe you really dont need a light cage either as most keepers experiencing burns these days seem to be from the light cages themselves around a high 60 - 80 watt globe



Where do I start replying to some of the things in that post? :lol::lol::lol:


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## cockney red (Oct 3, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> I've found habistat thermostats are far more reliable than microclimates.
> At the end of the day any mechanical or electrical item can fail.I would never consider running enclosures without thermostats.Running 100-150w globes or whatever is asking for trouble.


 The whole point Is that you DONT use such high wattage, just a sufficient wattage to heat the hotspot to the required temp.


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