# Another Albino Carpet line



## Bapi (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi everyone.

I have been watching peoples discussions recently on other albino carpet pythons strains and i now have permission from the owner to confirm that there is a second line of albino carpets thats due on to the market this breeding season. They are completely unrelated to Blondie and her descendents. At this stage we do not know if its the same mutation as Blondies although both strains are complete albinos and the same carpet subspecies. The albino mutation appeared in captive bred hatchlings that are unrelated to Blondies desecendents. The founders of this strain were wild caught in the Darwin rural area (under permit). I have been observing the development of this strain for many years now and can vouch for the fact that they existed before blondies offspring were available.

stephen


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## SlothHead (Aug 14, 2007)

What do you mean by complete albinos? Either it is an albino or it isnt 

Do you have photos... come on, no photos no proof, no proof, didnt really happen ;p


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## mitchdiamond (Aug 14, 2007)

Is there a page where I could read about the original Albino's found?


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## Tristis (Aug 14, 2007)

i second that photos or it didnt happen


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## Ricko (Aug 14, 2007)

Ok so is there pics or anything to prove all this? Also was the albino wild caught or did it show up in wild caught standard animals that were bred together?


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## MrSpike (Aug 14, 2007)

Who's to say they aren't related to blondie? Wasn't blondie found in rural Darwin? Could be her parents... 

Either way it sounds good, unrelated albinos.... wooooo

Kane


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## Bapi (Aug 14, 2007)

Yes its an albino- (its a Tyrosinase negative albino) - I meant as opposed to a dilute, leucistic or Tyrosinase positive albino.

Will post pics as soon as i can work out how to attach them.


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## SlothHead (Aug 14, 2007)

who did the testing on this to check if it is Tyr-neg


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## Tristis (Aug 14, 2007)

any pics yet?


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## SlothHead (Aug 14, 2007)

and as far as attaching pics, 
click on "Go Advanced"

Then when the new little screen appears, click on the paperclip 

Cheers


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## Australis (Aug 14, 2007)

I hope its True, it would be neat.


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2007)

Bet they wished they put them on the market sooner.


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## Australis (Aug 14, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Bet they wished they put them on the market sooner.



i was thinking the same, but if it really is True, i guess its one of those things you dont make totally public.

Like the ALBINO Womas.


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## wokka (Aug 14, 2007)

Steve, What makes you say its a different line to Blondie? Does it look any different.? what has it been mated with?


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## da_donkey (Aug 14, 2007)

A good 10 years ago i was at a reptile show and i helped the guy pack up his stuff and he told me about a dead 5ft albino carpet he had preserved in a large jar.

He told me a bloke was fishing on a river bank and it came swiming across at him and he bashed it with a big tree branch and took it home.
It was after this he was telling the reptile exhibitor he had a large white snake in a jar, the bloke i was speaking to didnt belive him and went and had a look....and to his surprise and dissapointment, he identified it as an albino carpet.

who knows how many different lines are out there, until the "reptiles Australia albino special" i didnt know half of those albies exsisted either.


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## wil (Aug 14, 2007)

Pics Or Didnt Happen!


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2007)

With all seriousness i would need to see the collection permits with dates, original pictures with dates and some kind of DNA test to show it is a different blood line to blondie. But i have heard rumors of a 2nd albino being captured from the same area as blondie.

Seriously if this was produced longer ago than blondies off spring were available we would be seeing atleast 2nd maybe 3rd clutch from this line. 

I'm sorry, i am an absolute sceptic. I think your friend might just be trying to add a higher value to the snakes they have. But i would love to be proven wrong and am willing to listen to some kind of evidence.


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## Kyro (Aug 14, 2007)

I imagine if they have been in captivity for this long then the owner should be able to produce lots of pics, as well as all the necessary documentation to prove these claims.I know if I was in that position i'd have it all ready for the sceptics before I went public so come on mate, proof:lol:


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## ihaveherps (Aug 14, 2007)

I dont see how this situation is as unbelievable, as most are making it out to be.... is it so far fetched that blondie has sibs, maybe even older sibs? Actually the possibility of hets out there is pretty high, but I spose this is just a lesson in the negative nature of the amateur herp scene.


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## da_donkey (Aug 14, 2007)

ihaveherps said:


> I dont see how this situation is as unbelievable, as most are making it out to be.... is it so far fetched that blondie has sibs, maybe even older sibs? Actually the possibility of hets out there is pretty high, but I spose this is just a lesson in the negative nature of the amateur herp scene.


 
I think that you have misunderstood, the origanal post says that it is a total different line than blondie, there is no dobt that blondie has sibs out there.


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2007)

ihaveherps said:


> I dont see how this situation is as unbelievable, as most are making it out to be.... is it so far fetched that blondie has sibs, maybe even older sibs? Actually the possibility of hets out there is pretty high, but I spose this is just a lesson in the negative nature of the amateur herp scene.



I really don't see what is beleivable about it at this stage. It is of course possible, same as it is possible that a pair of albino darwins spontaneously hatched in the UK.

C'mon! 'a friend of mine says they have this.' And then a bit of a story. No pics as yet, no evidence at all. A claim such as this one needs to have some kind of documentation behind it. Like i said i would love to be convinced as if is true it is nothing but good news for herpers. But for now i am a sceptic.


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## wil (Aug 14, 2007)

you would think blondie had other brothers and sisters (albinos) in her clutch


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2007)

wil said:


> you would think blondie had other brothers and sisters (albinos) in her clutch



That wouldn't necesarily be the case.


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## ihaveherps (Aug 14, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I think that you have misunderstood, the origanal post says that it is a total different line than blondie, there is no dobt that blondie has sibs out there.



true, donk, I see your point... 

But anyone who honestly believes that there arent sibs out there, needs their head read, furthermore, anyone who actually believe that they hatched the albinos in Europe, skip the quack and just commit yourself.


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## krusty (Aug 14, 2007)

very interesting..........


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## junglepython2 (Aug 14, 2007)

The chances of there only being two Hets in the wild and these two Hets happening to meet once and produce Blondie are astronomical. Chances are albino Darwin Hets are alot more common in the wild then people think, it would only take one of these Hets to be collected from the wild and with the amount of selective inbreeding that occurs in the hobby, secondary lines of albinos would be produced.


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## Australis (Aug 14, 2007)

Not that long ago, a new member posted a thread claiming that their mate had a Albino Eastern Water Dragon.
And amazingly not long after they posted photos of the animal, so you never bloody know eh! lol


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## ihaveherps (Aug 14, 2007)

exactly JP2!


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## krusty (Aug 14, 2007)

Australis said:


> Not that long ago, a new member posted a thread claiming that their mate had a Albino Eastern Water Dragon.
> And amazingly not long after they posted photos of the animal, so you never bloody know eh! lol



yes and i miss'd out on seeing the pics and could never find the thread again....bummer.


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## waruikazi (Aug 14, 2007)

Stephen, you don't seem to have a PM function. How can i contact you? or if you want you can email me waruikazi @ homail.com

Cheers mate 
would be appreciated.


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## Bapi (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi Guys, sorry to dissapoint but for reasons known only to my computer I can't seem to get pics to attach. (plus I keep getting emergencies every time I sit down to work it out) Gordo do you want to come around to the clinic tomorrow and help lisa put them on? - i guess that lets you know who I am  In terms of how unrelated the two blood lines we have no way of knowing. I have spoken to a number of labs around the country to get DNA fingerprinting done and this is likely soon but not yet available. They may be totally different mutations. In ball pythons there are at least two different albino mutations which when crossed together do not produce albinos (you get normals het for both mutations) until somebody crosses the two lines together we wont know. If on the other hand they are the same mutation then they are likely to be distantly related as this lines ancestors were found about 30kms from Blondie. Not impossible but distant. Some populations do have a high proportion of albinos such as the japanese rat snake (Elaphe climacophora) perhaps the darwin carpets are very slightly more prone to producing albinos - who knows? Anyway in terms of photographic proof - you will have to wait until I can figure out my technical difficulties. 

Cheers
Stephen


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## MrSpike (Aug 14, 2007)

Bapi said:


> Hi Guys, sorry to dissapoint but for reasons known only to my computer I can't seem to get pics to attach. (plus I keep getting emergencies every time I sit down to work it out) Gordo do you want to come around to the clinic tomorrow and help lisa put them on? - i guess that lets you know who I am  In terms of how unrelated the two blood lines we have no way of knowing. I have spoken to a number of labs around the country to get DNA fingerprinting done and this is likely soon but not yet available. They may be totally different mutations. In ball pythons there are at least two different albino mutations which when crossed together do not produce albinos (you get normals het for both mutations) until somebody crosses the two lines together we wont know. If on the other hand they are the same mutation then they are likely to be distantly related as this lines ancestors were found about 30kms from Blondie. Not impossible but distant. Some populations do have a high proportion of albinos such as the japanese rat snake (Elaphe climacophora) perhaps the darwin carpets are very slightly more prone to producing albinos - who knows? Anyway in terms of photographic proof - you will have to wait until I can figure out my technical difficulties.
> 
> Cheers
> Stephen



Stephen, when you go to reply to a topic, under the text window there is a button called "Manage Attachments". Click this button. Then when the box pops up hit "browse" on the right hand side of the box and search your comp for the pics. Then hit the "upload button" and it will reset the box and you will be able to ad more pics.

Other wise, if you e-mail me the pictures I can attach them for you. 

Kane


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## scorps (Aug 14, 2007)

would be cool


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

Mmmmmmm words taste good :lol:

Yep just ate my words. I am now a beleiver. Lisa and Steve rang me last night confirming the story and i'm going around today to have a chat. 

Words don't tast real good.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

There we go.


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## Hickson (Aug 15, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Words don't tast real good.



Which why you should always choose them carefully.



Hix


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## Kyro (Aug 15, 2007)

Thanks Gordo, thats fantastic news for everyone & they are absolute stunners.Congrats to your friends


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## cheyno (Aug 15, 2007)

Haha, I love it when people jump to conclusions so quickly!

The albino in the bottom 2 pics is a stunning snake!


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## da_donkey (Aug 15, 2007)

Kyro said:


> Thanks Gordo, thats fantastic news for everyone & they are absolute stunners.Congrats to your friends


 
Why is it fantastic news for everyone? lots of people have them.

They are very pretty snakes congrats to the owners, but if they did come along before blondie then the owners really did miss the boat.

Saying that there is still a truck load of money to be made from them


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## junglepython2 (Aug 15, 2007)

krusty said:


> yes and i miss'd out on seeing the pics and could never find the thread again....bummer.


 

Here ya go Krusty http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56345&highlight=Albino+EWD


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> Why is it fantastic news for everyone? lots of people have them.
> 
> They are very pretty snakes congrats to the owners, but if they did come along before blondie then the owners really did miss the boat.
> 
> Saying that there is still a truck load of money to be made from them



If you think they have missed the boat, i recon you are wrong.

Learn from me... words don't tast real good lol


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## Magpie (Aug 15, 2007)

I must admit, I don't really get it. Blondie was found in '92, this "other" line of albino's pre-dates blondie but they've never sold them or told anyone about them till now? They could easily have bred several thousand albinos in that time.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

it is a complete new blood line. Bigger, stronger and more pretty!


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## Colin (Aug 15, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> it is a complete new blood line. Bigger, stronger and more pretty!



what evidence can you give us to support the above statement please Gordo or Stephen? 



Bapi said:


> In terms of how unrelated the two blood lines we have no way of knowing. I have spoken to a number of labs around the country to get DNA fingerprinting done and this is likely soon but not yet available. They may be totally different mutations. In ball pythons there are at least two different albino mutations which when crossed together do not produce albinos (you get normals het for both mutations) until somebody crosses the two lines together we wont know. If on the other hand they are the same mutation then they are likely to be distantly related as this lines ancestors were found about 30kms from Blondie. Not impossible but distant.



So there is a 'possibility' of them being different mutations, but we won't know until two albino animals from 'each strain' are mated together. 

But chances are they are probably the exact same mutation as Blondie and related anyway. So if that turns out to be the case, what would make them so special in comparison to the existing strain from Southern Cross? 

Obviously they may have some different bloodlines in their make-up but are they so different to the albinos from SXR anyway? 

Please realise I"m not trying to put these animals down or dispute whats been claimed so far, I would just like some clarification of exactly what is known for fact so far.

One thing that puzzles me is this: 

If this other strain has been in existance prior to the Blondie strain, why has there been no mention of them before this? And why mention them now? If they have been around and kept under wraps, I would have at least put a SXR animal across one of these animals (if they were mine) to at least prove they are the same mutation or different before I'd make this above news public. So far all these claims of a "new line and new albino mutation" have been suggested without one piece of evidence (that I"ve seen anyway) to back the claims up. 

It would seem reasonable to me to wait until some facts are known (eg: same mutation or different albino etc) before publicly making claims with no evidence at all. 

I hope that it is a new albino mutation etc as that would be fantastic, but would like some clarification please on what are the facts so far as I"m very interested in this thread. 

thanks heaps


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## junglepython2 (Aug 15, 2007)

If you read his first post carefully he only said that albino's were bred sometime before blondie's offspring were available, from wild caught parents. He never said that they pre-existed blondie, so that may well be the reason we havn't heard of them untill now.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

just a note, if they had bred them with southern cross lines they wouldn't be special now would they. however they haven't been crossed and are from a different line. 
L


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## Colin (Aug 15, 2007)

Fair enough JP2 my mistake.


> I have been observing the development of this strain for many years now and can vouch for the fact that they existed before blondies offspring were available.



But if they have been around before blondies offspring were available, the main point of what I asked is still valid and unanswered.

I would love to see some actual evidence that these animals are in fact different from the Southern Cross Reptile strain from Blondie or a different albino mutation. 
(And don't get me wrong I sincerely hope they are as that would be really fantastic) 




Colin said:


> what evidence can you give us to support the above statement please Gordo or Stephen?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## flinders (Aug 15, 2007)

you gotta come out of the closet sometime and why not come out just short of hatchie season.smart thinking i reckon.


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## Colin (Aug 15, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> just a note, if they had bred them with southern cross lines they wouldn't be special now would they. however they haven't been crossed and are from a different line.
> L



At least we would know if they are the same albino mutation as Blondie or a different albino mutation. If they are a different albino mutaion then a mystery albino x Blondie albino would produce all normal looking darwins het for both albino strains. If that is the case it would be sensational world breaking news waruikazi and make them VERY special indeed 

If however albinos are produced then we know that they are definitely the same albino strain as blondie. I think its a reasonable thing to know.

And as I said I hope they are a new albino strain etc and I"m not trying to shoot these claims of a new bloodline etc but would like some clarification on what are the facts that are known so far, thats all.. I think thats fairly reasonable. 

Lets assume hypothetically  that it is the same albino strain as blondie and distantly related, but related nonetheless. Ok, so both lines have had some different darwin bloodlines added to strengthen the original mutation, but are still basically the same mutation developed from the same original source. 

Is thats what is being possibly suggested?


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## junglepython2 (Aug 15, 2007)

Even if a Het of each line produced an albino I don't think it would necessarily mean the mutation is exactly the same or definitely related. Although it would seem likely, regardless as long as they are not directly related to Blondie I think it is fair to call them a new and separate line.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 15, 2007)

Just to throw a spanner in the works perhaps there is a third albino darwin strain,even if it happens to be in Europe.


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## junglemad (Aug 15, 2007)

nice snake in the mating pic! the one with that weird white colour looked okay too i guess


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## hornet (Aug 15, 2007)

how do you actually know its a different line to blondie? As said before chances are there would be other hets out there and possibly even albinos, the albino that was Wc may have just been a sibling to blondie


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## cma_369 (Aug 15, 2007)

Well they're hotter than blondies line either way in my opinion...from pics anyways


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## Splitmore (Aug 15, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> Just to throw a spanner in the works perhaps there is a third albino darwin strain,even if it happens to be in Europe.



I hope thats a tounge-in-cheek comment, you seriously think that a sexual pair of darwins just happened to pop up in another country about the same time they started to be bred over here??


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## cement (Aug 15, 2007)

cma_369 said:


> Well they're hotter than blondies line either way in my opinion...from pics anyways


 
What? I fail to see why this is a 'hotter' looking snake. I think its actually a pretty ordinary looking albino in my opinion.

I agree that it is good that there is a chance we may have a another bloodline, but tell me why people think it is stronger and better.Because its a new thing?


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

cement said:


> What? I fail to see why this is a 'hotter' looking snake. I think its actually a pretty ordinary looking albino in my opinion.
> 
> I agree that it is good that there is a chance we may have a another bloodline, but tell me why people think it is stronger and better.Because its a new thing?



According to the person i was talking to regarding these animals and blondie, these are bigger and healthier looking than blondie ever was. That could be cause by husbandry or it could be a genetic thing. They have seen and held both lines of these animals and from their opinion the new line of albino's are better looking.

A possible reason these have never been crossed with blondies line is because there would then be real doubt about where this line came from. people could say 'well he has the SXR line, what's to say it isn't one of theirs?' 

From the conversation i had today, the adult male in the pic was the only albino out of an average size clutch. That wouldn't lend too much to the het theory. 

There are always going to be sceptics, even i was one, but i guess if you don't beleive it there's not alot anyone can do about it. But this is exciting stuff!


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## junglepython2 (Aug 15, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> A possible reason these have never been crossed with blondies line is because there would then be real doubt about where this line came from. people could say 'well he has the SXR line, what's to say it isn't one of theirs?'
> 
> From the conversation i had today, the adult male in the pic was the only albino out of an average size clutch. That wouldn't lend too much to the het theory.quote]
> 
> ...


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

No i didn't say that he has both lines and he doesn't. I said it is an argument people could use to discredit the story. I know the possiblities of a single coming from a pair of hets is there but unlikely, in reality i think you would have as much chance to hatch out the first mutant in the line as collecting two hets from the wild. DNA testing is the only way that it can be proved or disproved as to being the same morph or not.

But anyway that is really neither here nor there. It's new and wicked!


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## ihaveherps (Aug 15, 2007)

JP2, have to agree with you again. The punnets used to predict bacic mendellian inheritence, are nothing more than a guide, and nature always figures out a way to break the rules.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

I have other reasons for thinking that it is not in anyway related to blondie. But this is not my story to be breaking news about that i have not been given permission to tell. From the convo's i have had this was very credibly a spontaneous morph.


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## junglepython2 (Aug 15, 2007)

OK if my probability maths is still right chances of having one or no albinos from a clutch size as large as 15 is still over 8% which is still pretty high in probability stakes.


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## waruikazi (Aug 15, 2007)

Yeah but think of the probability of collecting two hets from the wild.


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## BROWNS (Aug 15, 2007)

Well it's definitely the same albino mutation as in being Tyrosinaise negative just like Blondie.It's interesting that it's a Darwin albino and not any other sub species however i'm sure there are many of blondies relatives still around and legal collecting in Darwin was going on for years.I did get told a story of one seen not far from Blondies original locality.

Going to be hard to tell just because of size,some Darwins get much bigger than others and some much nicer in colour than others which any bigger more colourful normal straon bred to Blondies original line as many i'm sure have done,even with striped Darwins etc then the offspring could easily be more colourful and larger animals overall,does that make them a different original lineage to Blondie?

I don't understand,this line has supposedly been around for and bred for some time before Blondies is that right?How many times has it been bred?And the line is from a pair of wild caught animals obviously being hets but only produced 1 albino from a whole clutch?Definitely doesn't fit what we're told should be the case with normal genetics and may be a good reason for it not being the same line as Blondie seeing as her genetics seem to be almost spot on Mendelian.I don't at all think that if they are 2 seperate lines crossed they'd produce all normals,why would they?They're both T- Albinos so should produce the same etc.

Great to seeif it is true,Greebo mentioned something years back but not sure if he was ehem"bull .hiting" or not and have heard stories,who knows what others keep?i'm sure before long there'll be a few more different albino carpet lines from different sub species,i can't wait for pure albino jungles lol


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## morelia_morphs (Aug 15, 2007)

I have held Blondie on several occasions and I dont see how a snake could be healthier. She was a large Darwin, much larger than some of my normal Darwins. From the limted pictures posted, I dont see how they are any prettier than the ones I have seen produced by SXR.

Who knows where this line comes from, you would have to put money on the line being related to SXRs.

Maybe Blondie was bred before it reached SXR (just to throw a spanner in the works!)


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## cement (Aug 15, 2007)

If this albino was bred before blondie, with a normal, and then bred again with offspring, there is no reason why we aren't all holding albinos right now.
This year is the first year of SXR breeding albino to albino in numbers (from what I can gather), plus there are a few others with albinos going with hets.
In three and a half years time there will be all number of people with hatchies and then the numbers increase.
Personally, i'd like to hear Doc's point of veiw, I find it remarkable that this has just popped up and that the albino hatchling supply hasn't started earlier.


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## Jason (Aug 15, 2007)

i believe blondie was bred before SXR obtained her, i believe that simon mentioned this himself in a previous thread (anyone remember) its likely these may have been hets from that clutch, which from memory is the source of the albinos over seas aswell. either way i hope these are a new albino line, i do worry its a money scam or ploy to sell more albinos or hets this season.
i alo believe that if they are wild caught they may still be related to blondie. i know that if i had bred some albino pythons, more people would know about them, i would have email SXR to inform them right away atleast this way you would have some very credible witnesses to back up the claims.


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## Doc (Aug 15, 2007)

Hi folks, I just got emailed about this thread and had a good read through it. Very interesting.

I think it would be great if there is another line, especially if the mutation was different than the one originating from Blondie. It could lead to a new albino variant!

However, I am puzzled by the story. It's 8 years since I first became custodian of Blondie and her genetic heritage. I have two gravid albino females now that are second generation to Blondie and last year I bred the first albino to albino cross. The first few female albinos I parted with will be three years this summer. I did however part with some hets some years back because I didn't need them and I couldn't bring myself to euthanise them all and so sold some males here and some females there. They would have been old enough to breed a few years back now if anyone was lucky enough to get two. No doubt they will pop up "spontaneously" for some lucky folk. 

The photographs of the albinos don't convince me of anything - they could be some we parted with previously or they might not??

What I don't understand is if this line started back before we started to part with any albinos why would it be kept quiet for so long (nothing is secret for long in this game)? Why wouldn't the proud owners not want to let others know about it and capitalise on it by breeding and selling the offspring? I did hear of another albino being found before Blondie was found some years back from a very credible source, but I was told by this source that unfortunately it died before it bred. I have since had independant verification which leads me to believe this well might be true.

The chances of a albino popping up in a wild reptile population is about 1 in 20,000 to 30,000 depending on who you believe. So it is possible that there is another line from a wild caught snake, but the chances are low. Of course, it could be from the same genetic line as Blondie which just popped up in another random coupling from the same population of snakes.

As to whether this line is prettier or more robust, I don't see how anyone could say. The snakes shown certainly show no evidence of this being true. We have not had one unhealthy animal and, while I think all albino carpets are lovely, we have produced some geogeous snakes. 

Back to what I think is the main point, if there is another albino line its fantastic news because if the genetics are different it opens up new possibilities - and I just love the challenge of breeding new forms and everyone getting to enjoy them. If these folk really have a different line I encourage them as much as I can to get in touch with me at SXR. I'd be more than happy to swap blood or to do a breeding trial to see what we get. Even if they don't want to do this, I would love to know that there is another albino line out there and look forward to what it might bring. 

That said, I am deeply skeptical about this and feel, like some of you have expressed, that the odds of it being fact are slim and more likely it is someone's new, clever sales ploy, or wishful thinking or misunderstanding. I hope I am wrong.


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## Doc (Aug 15, 2007)

To Jason - I did write a while back that there is a possibility (very remote) that Blondie bred before but there is absolutely no evidence of it and the owners (the NT Government) assured me that she had never been bred and they had her from a hatchling. Also, if someone bred her before, why wait more than eight years to do anything about it??


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## cement (Aug 15, 2007)

Doc said:


> I did however part with some hets some years back because I didn't need them and I couldn't bring myself to euthanise them all and so sold some males here and some females there. They would have been old enough to breed a few years back now if anyone was lucky enough to get two. No doubt they will pop up "spontaneously" for some lucky folk.


 

hahaha ! Don't tell me they were sold as normals ! hehehe Someone doesn't know what they have............

or do they.......?


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## Doc (Aug 15, 2007)

Yes they were sold as normals (through dealers) and yes no one knew what they had (have).


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## Jason (Aug 15, 2007)

Doc said:


> To Jason - I did write a while back that there is a possibility (very remote) that Blondie bred before but there is absolutely no evidence of it and the owners (the NT Government) assured me that she had never been bred and they had her from a hatchling. Also, if someone bred her before, why wait more than eight years to do anything about it??



Thanks for clearing that up! I new i recalled something along those lines. "why wait 8 yrs?" I questioned that myself, imo doesnt make to much sence from an economical point of view. im as hopeful as the rest of us but seems alittle suspect.


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## Jason (Aug 15, 2007)

Doc said:


> Yes they were sold as normals (through dealers) and yes no one knew what they had (have).



Interesting! If that is the case, its likely this wont be the last time we will be hearing of claims of a new line being spontaniously produced.


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## Doc (Aug 15, 2007)

Well the offer is there for the "owners" of this line to something together with SXR. I guess I wait and see if any one contacts us. Alternatively, maybe the claimants will provide a more complete story of the history of this line that is credible and can be verified. Certainly, right from the beginning with Blondie the whole world knew and scrutinised it. The same was true of the albino olives, albino mackies, etc etc.


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## Bapi (Aug 15, 2007)

Hi guys.
To be clear. The first albinos in this line was captive bred. Their mother was wild caught (legally) but its father and paternal grandparents were captive bred. Their paternal great grandparents were wildcaught. (again legally). The first albinos were hatched after blondie was found and already in South australia. Its ancestors however were all in captivity long before Blondie was found. How closely related or otherwise they are to blondie is impossible to say than for any other Darwin carpet. - what happens in the wild stays in the wild 

It certainly physically appears to be the same mutation as Blondie but with out crossing the two strains there is no way of knowing. Both are tyrosinase negative and both autosomal recessive in inheritance. I have examined many examples of both blondies strain and this strain. In general this strain is bigger and brighter yellow but as has already been stated this is probably just within the normal variation of the Darwin carpets. 

If you consider mutations as mistakes in the genetic code it is certainly possible to make the same mistake independently twice. 

Basically as I see it there are two different possibilities - 1) that it is a different mutation and not the same. In which case then basically it will be a matter of assessing it closely to see if it gives any real advantage over what is already out there. An example of this occurred in budgies. Initially there were autosomal recessive and sex linked albino(Lutino) mutations. The sex linked one for some reason gained popularity and the recessive mutation has disappeared. So to be blunt if it is a completely different mutation it would need to have an advantage over what is already out there to compete. (cf macs versus pcs) 

I personally believe its greatest value will be if it is the same mutation. The two lines will provide a valuable source of unrelated genetics to ensure health and vitality. (just to be clear - blondie is outbred wild type - she should be genetically healthy. Her descendents, like any recessive mutations will have had some degree of inbreeding. A fundamental law of population genetics is that inbreeding causes a decline in vigour. (healthy, fertility etc) ie for maximally healthy snakes breeding as distantly related snakes together as possible. (within a species) 

Cheers
Stephen


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## cma_369 (Aug 15, 2007)

cement said:


> What? I fail to see why this is a 'hotter' looking snake. I think its actually a pretty ordinary looking albino in my opinion.
> 
> I agree that it is good that there is a chance we may have a another bloodline, but tell me why people think it is stronger and better.Because its a new thing?


 
The one in the pics actually looks more colourful (whiter) and as wazuriki (sp?) said healthier so therefore in my opinion better.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 16, 2007)

Splitmore said:


> I hope thats a tounge-in-cheek comment, you seriously think that a sexual pair of darwins just happened to pop up in another country about the same time they started to be bred over here??



Yeah the tongue was firmly planted with that comment.

I find the claims of more robust,better looking blah blah of this so called "new line"
a bit much,afterall anyone can say whatever they like which doesnt make it fact.What are these claims based on and how can the claims be backed up?


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## Veredus (Aug 16, 2007)

Bapi said:


> I have examined many examples of both blondies strain and this strain. In general this strain is bigger and brighter yellow but as has already been stated this is probably just within the normal variation of the Darwin carpets.


 
You might wanna provide a bit more evidence before you go ahead and defame someone else's line, from the pictures I have seen so far...blondey certainly looks to be the greater snake


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2007)

Having seen more than a few of the SouthernX albinos I can't see how the animal in those photos looks any different, in fact it looks identical. If that is the basis for the assumption this 'new' line is better and stronger then maybe I have been looking at the wrong animals. 
I agree with Cement, it doesn't actually appear to display the variety of colours found in many of the SXR animals but that could just be bad photo's.


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## nvenm8 (Aug 16, 2007)

more to the point! why is this thread being humoured? It's hype building and marketing at it's best. Failed on me sorry.


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## waruikazi (Aug 16, 2007)

nvenm8 said:


> more to the point! why is this thread being humoured? It's hype building and marketing at it's best. Failed on me sorry.



Lol i suppose any publicity is good publicity. But seriously no one yet knows who owns this line or when it will be available on the market, so advertising couldn't be the purpose of this thread.


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## Miss B (Aug 16, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> But seriously no one yet knows who owns this line or when it will be available on the market, so advertising couldn't be the purpose of this thread.


 
Maybe not advertising as such, but this thread is definately building hype!!

3,244 views since Tuesday :shock:

Also, in the first post, bapi said this new line was "completely unrelated to Blondie and her descendants" yet in his most recent post, his comment was "how closely related or otherwise they are to Blondie is impossible to say than for any other Darwin carpet - what happens in the wild stays in the wild ". 

Isn't the second statement kind of conflicting with the first? :|


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

I'd really be interested in some more information concerning this other line of albino's if possible. 
And of course love to see some more pics if available. I never ever tire of looking at albinos


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## Bapi (Aug 16, 2007)

Whoa.
"You might wanna provide a bit more evidence before you go ahead and defame someone else's line, from the pictures I have seen so far...blondey certainly looks to be the greater snake"

No I am not slandering blondey's line. She and her descendents are very beautiful & healthy snakes. To be clear I have never seen an ugly albino. Nor have i every seen an unhealthy one. 

I am not saying this line is better, just a different origin. I did say that they seemed to be bigger and brighter coloured on average compared to the (limited) average of those that I have examined of Blondies line. BUT I followed up by saying that this is unlikely to be due to the mutation rather it is likely to be due to the natural variation in Darwin carpets. Darwin carpets vary a lot. 


stephen


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## da_donkey (Aug 16, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Lol i suppose any publicity is good publicity. But seriously no one yet knows who owns this line or when it will be available on the market, so advertising couldn't be the purpose of this thread.


 
I know exactly who the owner of this animal is, i dont think its as secret as you think gordo.

and Bapi can you turn your PM function on please.


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## Tristis (Aug 16, 2007)

so how many "new line albinos" are there?
just the one?


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## tempest (Aug 16, 2007)

Doc said:


> Well the offer is there for the "owners" of this line to something together with SXR. I guess I wait and see if any one contacts us. Alternatively, maybe the claimants will provide a more complete story of the history of this line that is credible and can be verified. Certainly, right from the beginning with Blondie the whole world knew and scrutinised it. The same was true of the albino olives, albino mackies, etc etc.



Stephen, will you be taking Doc up on his offers to see exactly what your line produces with the Southern Cross line? Wouldn't that then give everyone a better idea of whether it is a new line? All this genetics stuff goes waaaayyyy over my head, so that's about as technical as I get :lol:


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## Rennie (Aug 16, 2007)

Tristis said:


> so how many "new line albinos" are there?
> just the one?



And the line in Europe of course.


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## Tristis (Aug 16, 2007)

Rennie said:


> And the line in Europe of course.


sorry i ment how many albino snakes are there in this new line.
just the one albino in those pics or are there more?


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## Rennie (Aug 16, 2007)

Tristis said:


> sorry i ment how many albino snakes are there in this new line.
> just the one albino in those pics or are there more?



Sorry, no there are supposedly many more, Bapi said "I have examined many examples of both blondies strain and this strain."


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## oniddog (Aug 16, 2007)

quote flava flav (PublicEnemy) : " Don'tdon't Don't , Believe the hype! WooHaHaHaaa! "


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## Bapi (Aug 16, 2007)

"Stephen, will you be taking Doc up on his offers to see exactly what your line produces with the Southern Cross line? Wouldn't that then give everyone a better idea of whether it is a new line? All this genetics stuff goes waaaayyyy over my head, so that's about as technical as I get"

Actually I am not the owner or breeder of these snakes - just their vet. It's not my call. I will have to see what their owners think. 

Stephen


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## waruikazi (Aug 16, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I know exactly who the owner of this animal is, i dont think its as secret as you think gordo.
> and Bapi can you turn your PM function on please.



Well if you do then that is good. But i don't think it is the person who you think it is and even if it is the person you think it is, there are not that many people who know.


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## Colin (Aug 16, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Well if you do then that is good. But i don't think it is the person who you think it is and even if it is the person you think it is, there are not that many people who know.


maybe we could have a guessing competition  whoever guesses the owners name first gets a free albino.


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## Magpie (Aug 16, 2007)

Is it Steve?


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## waruikazi (Aug 16, 2007)

Colin said:


> maybe we could have a guessing competition  whoever guesses the owners name first gets a free albino.



That would be great! As long as i can enter


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## wokka (Aug 16, 2007)

There are plenty of "Blondie" origin albinos available so i imagine if the owner wanted to cross to that line he easily could. I imagine one reason for holding the aniamls off the market is to keep them pure to keep control of the breeding of that line.


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## steve6610 (Aug 16, 2007)

Magpie said:


> Is it Steve?



nope, not me magpie.....................


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## cma_369 (Aug 16, 2007)

Well its someone from the northern territory most likely..

I should atleast win a het for that guess


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## aspidito (Aug 16, 2007)

Colin said:


> maybe we could have a guessing competition  whoever guesses the owners name first gets a free albino.


Hi Colin, for that brilliant idea you win a pair of albinos from my stunning pair of Simons line when they breed, which by the way have a beautiful lemon & lime colouring, the packaging will be very expensive though ha ha.
cheers, Paul.


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## Colin (Aug 17, 2007)

aspidito said:


> Hi Colin, for that brilliant idea you win a pair of albinos from my stunning pair of Simons line when they breed, which by the way have a beautiful lemon & lime colouring, the packaging will be very expensive though ha ha.
> cheers, Paul.


Hi Paul  thanks mate but I was hoping for a paradox pair instead  
and of course will gladly pay the $65 freight. Hell I'll even pay for a stretched limo to take them out to the airport in style.


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## hazzard (Aug 17, 2007)

Pffft albinos are BHP's food anyway! Great a new line of fast food for my darlings! "McBino's"

P.S. I'm really just jealous as i don't have any


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## wokka (Aug 17, 2007)

That a particularly literal interpretation of getting albino gentics into your snakes. Hazzard there are probably better ways of adding value to your BHP's.


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## waruikazi (Aug 17, 2007)

hazzard said:


> Pffft albinos are BHP's food anyway! Great a new line of fast food for my darlings! "McBino's"
> P.S. I'm really just jealous as i don't have any



Lol @ McBino i love it. I'll name my next snake McBino i think!


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