# My first levis!



## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

Hi all, 
Just wanted to get some feedback if possible on how these guys are going?
I got them when they were 2 months old, had them for nearly a month now.
Was told not to freak out as they go through a fair few changes in the first month, and as long as I do the important stuff, all will be fine, but both have gone through digging stages and showing off on the side of the terrarium and just had their fist shed (i thought the poor guys were sick).
Now i've noticed their tails seem a little slimmer than they once were, and their appetite has declined. I used to feed them 2-3 small/baby crickets once every 2 days, but at the moment, they have had the same 4 crickets in there since Saturday? 
Also, still tryen to get my head around their sex, I think they are still a bit young so I'm going off size but thats not easy either.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated


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## itbites (Sep 1, 2010)

They are looking very skinny IMO..

Not a gecko expert but I would say something is not right.. 
either set-up, heat or health wise...

*edit* Do you mist them on a regular basis? 
The skin sagging looks almost like dehydration.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

I've got both a heat mat, and heat rock that they love. 
Was a little worried on the health side, hence why I thought I'd see if anyone had some advice.
They are also at the final stage of shedding, the smaller one started yesterday, the larger one on Sunday.
Mist them once a day, the sand once every 2, plus they have a water dish (gatorade bottle cap).


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## Jay84 (Sep 1, 2010)

They are 2 VERY sorry looking geckos. They look EXTREMELY skinny and dehydrated. At that age mine eat between 3 and 6 crickets per night. 

What temps are you keeping them at? Are you misting them every other day?


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

Temps at 23 - 26 degrees.


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2010)

they definitely look underweight and still have shed on them, have you got a pic of their setup , is the heat mat underneath 1/3 of the tank is it set on about 30deg im assuming you have a thermostat setup, the deep end is the moist end, it should be kept moist at all times , they should have hides at the hot end and cool end. The 2-3 crickets is that each every 2 days or all up for both of them at any rate something isnt right , they are real gutses when it comes to food .


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2010)

the temp is way too low for levis


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## Jay84 (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> Temps at 23 - 26 degrees.


 
Those temps are very low for juvies. Increase temps to 30 - 32 degrees at the hot end. With temps that low they will almost be inactive in brumating mode.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

2/3 each / day, i haven't fed them since there are still a couple of crickets in there. 
i just changed the water again and they are drinking it.
I heard that adding milk to the water is an idea if they are young and not eating the crickets so they still get some calcium, should i try it out?
One from back corner is now sitting on heated rock (fav place), other is under the magnetic rock at the from of shot.


Temps been increased to 30.


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> 2/3 each / day, i haven't fed them since there are still a couple of crickets in there.
> i just changed the water again and they are drinking it.
> I heard that adding milk to the water is an idea if they are young and not eating the crickets so they still get some calcium, should i try it out?
> One from back corner is now sitting on heated rock (fav place), other is under the magnetic rock at the from of shot.
> ...


 
I really think you need to sell the geckos and go back and do some research because it is clear that you have no idea how to care for them


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2010)

no milk what so ever i have never heard of that and ive done a fair bit of research on geckos, are you sprinkling calcium supplement on the crickets, as mentioned before they should be getting 4 crickets ever 2 days each , they dont necessarily need a water bowl because that can be easily contaminated if you are not cleaning it every day. I keep the deep end moist but the dry end stays dry i mist the walls of the enclosure . I think the heat rock is not a good idea that should come out of the tank, i use terracotta saucers as hides cheap.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

The post is called "My first Levis!" 
I have read all the online content I can find. Joined forums and asked questions. This is the first sign something isn't right and it started on Saturday when the first one started to shed. 
All I'm asking is if something is wrong, can you please point me into some kind of direction on how to fix it?
I understand constructive critisism, but telling me to sell them is about as constructive as telling me to flush them, and I'm not doing either, it doesn't fix the problem!


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## Jay84 (Sep 1, 2010)

How much area is the heatmat covering? How are the temps so low? What wattage is the heatmat?

As stated, use teracotta pot plant bases as hides (cut or smash out an entrance hole). Mist the tank (not use waterbowl). Misting the geckos and the sides of the tank will encourage them to drink the droplets of water. 

Please make all these changes quickly, as being such small and young geckos they will not be able to withstand those temps and lack of food/water for any length of time


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## Jay84 (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> The post is called "My first Levis!"
> I have read all the online content I can find. Joined forums and asked questions. This is the first sign something isn't right and it started on Saturday when the first one started to shed.


 
I dont want to sound like i am flaming you, but these geckos are very skinny..... that doesn't happen in less than a week.

From photos of other peoples geckos on other threads you should get a guage on how your geckos should look. Plump, with plump little tails.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

didn't think so, cow and gecko doesn't mix, but thought i'd ask anyways.
the crickets come with calcium powder that i sprinkle on in the morning before i feed them at night.
there is a heat mat under the sand, just infront of the heat rock (you can see the cord), they just enjoy laying on the rock.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

I noticed the tails first of all were getting rather skinny, but like I said previously, alarm bells were going off then they basically stopped eating.
Was told by the previous owner they do drop off food rather quickly once they get to a decent size so I wasn't overly worried. Now its been 3 days but there water intake has been normal.


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> The post is called "My first Levis!"
> I have read all the online content I can find. Joined forums and asked questions. This is the first sign something isn't right and it started on Saturday when the first one started to shed.
> All I'm asking is if something is wrong, can you please point me into some kind of direction on how to fix it?
> I understand constructive critisism, but telling me to sell them is about as constructive as telling me to flush them, and I'm not doing either, it doesn't fix the problem!




all of your research should have been done before acquiring animals .

you need to organise a hot spot of 30 degrees via a under tank heat source 

feeding as many crickets as the animal will eat every night and dusting in calcium 

water should be given via misting 


i would also be dividing the tank with a plastic divider so each animal has a time to recover 

but looking at both of them you have a long hall infront of you to get them back to health


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> I noticed the tails first of all were getting rather skinny, but like I said previously, alarm bells were going off then they basically stopped eating.
> Was told by the previous owner they do drop off food rather quickly once they get to a decent size so I wasn't overly worried. Now its been 3 days but there water intake has been normal.


 

how do you monitor water intake when it is a small lid? especially when geckos generally don't use water bowls







that is what a healthy gecko looks like 

I have many adult geckos all of them eating daily and there food intake may drop off during winter but only when cooled


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

kupper said:


> all of your research should have been done before acquiring animals .
> 
> you need to organise a hot spot of 30 degrees via a under tank heat source
> 
> ...



the hot spot ive got is the heat mat, under the sand infront of the heat rock (this way they can choose which they prefer in accordance with previous owner who also had one)
i didnt wanna over feed them as i didn't want them to choke as i've also heard this is a habit for the little gutses, crickets come with own calcuim "gutload").
plastic divider is a new idea.

Trust me, I know its going to be a long slog, hence why I thought id ask the brains trust as I've read some crazy ideas on other blogs.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

the water bowl is purelly for addage, like i said, previous owner had one, similarly to the toilet rolls.
thought they would go with what they were comfortable with.


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

the heat rock needs to go


the sand depth needs to be reduced so that the heat will be easier accessible and the single hide idea needs to be implemented 

simple works , complicated setups fail


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

the previous owner needs a good slap in the head by the sounds 

terracotta saucers work wonders and have one on the hot end in each divided section 

with them in that condition make sure they are bought out into the open nightly and sprayed 

and keep track of how many crickets are left after a feed and adjust the amount given accordingly ( Jay8 is good at food regulation :lol: )

they should start to bounce back within the week and you should notice an increase in food intake , if you don't hand feeding may be needed to get them back on track


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

heat rock is gone. 

sand depth minimised.

got told last week they were starved for things to do, need more to keep them entertained.

Cheers for advise.


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

they are sand dwellers, all they need to do is dig and eat


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## Jay84 (Sep 1, 2010)

They will not be starved for things to do??? Mine are kept in very simplistic tubs (most people keep them this way). They will not choke as long as the crickets are appropriately sized. When they are young like yours, YOU should not be regulating their food intake, they should be fed all that they will eat. You regulation is clearly too little.

Reducing depth of sand is great. I also agree in dividing the tank in half. Then you can monitor more effectively what each gecko is consuming.

I also agree that whoever you bought them off should be slapped, they look skinny when you got them.

Let us know how they go over the next few nights with feeding!


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

but just remember that food size is might important too ..... if you don't regulate food intake with large prey they will regurge the food which will put them further behind


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2010)

i just realised you are dusting the crickets with the gutload which comes with the container of crickets, this gutload is actually food for the crickets, its not the calcium supplement, you need to dust the crickets with the calcium supplement just before you feed the crickets to the geckos you cant dust the crickets in the morning and then feed at night.


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

Sarah said:


> i just realised you are dusting the crickets with the gutload which comes with the container of crickets, this gutload is actually food for the crickets, its not the calcium supplement, you need to dust the crickets with the calcium supplement just before you feed the crickets to the geckos you cant dust the crickets in the morning and then feed at night.



cheers, got told the calcium content of the gutload is more than enough for my little guys. cricket eats the calcium enhanced food, gecko eats the cricket with the calcium in it. 
Thank god for you guys.
Mis-information is a wonder.


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

sarah said:


> i just realised you are dusting the crickets with the gutload which comes with the container of crickets, this gutload is actually food for the crickets, its not the calcium supplement, you need to dust the crickets with the calcium supplement just before you feed the crickets to the geckos you cant dust the crickets in the morning and then feed at night.


 
face palm!!!!


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

Package reads.... "Our specially formulated live food GUTLOAD feed, enriched with calcium and vitamins, will ensure your animal recieves its daily essentials naturally when dining on our juicy Crickets, Woodies and Mealworms." = untrue?


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## byron_moses (Sep 1, 2010)

congrats mate i wanna get some gex soon they r so cute


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

Cheers, hopefully on the mend now due to everyone's help. Will keep you all updated as time goes


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## kupper (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> Package reads.... "Our specially formulated live food GUTLOAD feed, enriched with calcium and vitamins, will ensure your animal recieves its daily essentials naturally when dining on our juicy Crickets, Woodies and Mealworms." = untrue?


 
you will always need to gutload your crickets . its like filling them up with food so your animal is receiving more than just the fibre of the animals shell 

you don't need to just use there gutload .....try carrots fish food dog food ect mix it up a bit


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## Richs (Sep 1, 2010)

That's cool, I understand that bit. I think were the confussion set in, is I'm using the Gutload which has calcium in it, as the gecko's source of calcium. Do I then need calcium dust ontop of that?


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## LadyJ (Sep 1, 2010)

Very sad state of the animals... surely you'd notice before they got THAT thin and dehydrated... but I digress, make sure you do dust with actual calcium and vitamin supplements, you buy these at the pet-shop in a container marked as just that. Also consider contacting somewhere here with geckos (and patience...) to speak to about their needs and perhaps even consider handing the animals over to someone with more experience and do some research...


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 1, 2010)

Richs said:


> That's cool, I understand that bit. I think were the confussion set in, is I'm using the Gutload which has calcium in it, as the gecko's source of calcium. Do I then need calcium dust ontop of that?


 Yeah its recommended to feed growing geckos gutloaded insects with every 2nd feed being dusted with calcium


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## Sarah (Sep 1, 2010)

my reply was based on your comment "the crickets come with calcium powder that i sprinkle on in the morning before i feed them at night" from that it sounded like you sprinkled the crickets with gutload and fed them that night to the levis. At any rate you still need to dust the crickets with a calcium supplement eg Rep Cal calcium with vitamin D powder, its available from the herp shop .


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

The 2 crickets were munched overnight and the enclosure is at a steady 32.5.

Thanks to all those that gave advice through-out the night, much appreciated


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## IgotFrogs (Sep 2, 2010)

poor little guys i hope they pick back up they are sooooooooo very thin!


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

you will need to give them a hand full of crickets every night mate dont be shy .......

try 6-8 crickets a night and in the morning take out the left overs


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

definately.


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

Is the heat covering half the enclosures floor ?


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## IgotFrogs (Sep 2, 2010)

i just had another thought as well maybe their enclosure is big ......... with levis they arnt the brightest light bulbs in the bunch when it comes to food ..... mine are young and i have them is a small enclosure than i will have when they get full grown as its more easy for them to catch their food .... so that might be worth thinking about


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

kupper said:


> Is the heat covering half the enclosures floor ?


sure is


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

IgotFrogs said:


> i just had another thought as well maybe their enclosure is big ......... with levis they arnt the brightest light bulbs in the bunch when it comes to food ..... mine are young and i have them is a small enclosure than i will have when they get full grown as its more easy for them to catch their food .... so that might be worth thinking about



it's funny, I thought the same thing too looking back at the photo but they only take 2 steps at most to get too a cricket. (luckily the crockets like jumping on their heads while exploring) 
when I first got them, I had a mating box, not for them to mate obviously, but the size was perfect, but with the rapid rate they grew in the first 2 - 3 weeks, i thought getting a larger enclosure so they wouldnt be so squashed and fighting for space.


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## IgotFrogs (Sep 2, 2010)

well i have my 3 little guys in a tank about hrmmm maybe 40 cms long by about 25 deep .... and they are thriving .... i also have a water bowl in for them that i have large glass beads in just so its not to deep .....


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

IgotFrogs said:


> well i have my 3 little guys in a tank about hrmmm maybe 40 cms long by about 25 deep .... and they are thriving .... i also have a water bowl in for them that i have large glass beads in just so its not to deep .....



so you do the waterbowl thing as well as spray them?


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## IgotFrogs (Sep 2, 2010)

yup they dont bother drinking from the walls at all but i mist one end of the tank to keep the sand damp for digging for them so no caveins of they decide to dig down


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## Jay84 (Sep 2, 2010)

Great to hear the temps are up!!!

My advice would be to put about 4 crickets in the tank in the early evening after dark (about 8pm). Go and check on them before you go to bed (assuming around 10pm?), if all the crickets are gone then put some more in. My knobbies freak out if there are too many crickets in the tank jumping here there and everywhere!

Another trick i found good for younger knobbies is to take one of the crickets back legs off so they are a little less mobile. in doing this, a cricket with a less accurate aim will still be able to catch them. 

One thing i have also experienced is retained eye scale (spectacle). I have had a few young knobbies where this has not shed properly, this will affect their eyesight and feeding progress. Once you have noticed your geckos shed, ensure ALL skin is successfully removed.


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

I was worried about that.
I noticed one still has some shed on his right eyelid but I didn't wanna interfere too much.


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## Jay84 (Sep 2, 2010)

Richs said:


> I was worried about that.
> I noticed one still has some shed on his right eyelid but I didn't wanna interfere too much.



OK, if the spectacle is retained, you should be able to see the difference if you look closely. If it has shed ok then its eye should look very clear and 'bright'. if retained it will look dull and there may be some skin that you can grip onto with a pair of tweezers. Be Very careful if doing this as you can cause damage. When i have done this i have dampened the area with a wet cotton bud, letting it soak for a few minutes.


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## Sarah (Sep 2, 2010)

i dont think that comment is called for Tash ! 

try spraying the gecko who has the shed still on its eye, hopefully it should come off easily i wouldnt leave it on the eye .


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> OK, if the spectacle is retained, you should be able to see the difference if you look closely. If it has shed ok then its eye should look very clear and 'bright'. if retained it will look dull and there may be some skin that you can grip onto with a pair of tweezers. Be Very careful if doing this as you can cause damage. When i have done this i have dampened the area with a wet cotton bud, letting it soak for a few minutes.


 
Terrific idea with the cotton bud, i'll have a look and try out both methods.

Will keep you update, much appreciated.


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## Gecko :) (Sep 2, 2010)

Tasha your posts are not helpful at all,. at least Kupper gave some good advice

Hey Richs,

Sorry to see your levis in such a bad way,.so sad 
I am very curious who you bought these from as I would have expected the seller to ensure you have the propper information on how to care for them before they were sold to you.

I think everyone else has pretty much covered most points for you now, so with anyluck hopefully they will bounce back quickly.

Good to hear you have bumped their temps up, I would really reccomend seperating them so that you can keep an eye on both of them & ensure they are both getting enough food. I would reccomend seperating them into their own 10lt plastic tub at least until you get the back on track.

As far as the retained spec I would reccomend giving the eye a spray of water before trying to peel it off,. also be very careful if you intend to use a cotton bud or tweezers not to poke them in the eye,. I usually use my fingers although may not be possible if you dont have any nails,.. DONT pull on it to hard! if it doesnt come off easily give it another spray before trying again.

Best of luck & please be sure to keep us updated.


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## shellfisch (Sep 2, 2010)

I think it was briefly touched on earlier, but it is important that you remove any uneaten crickets after a few hours or the next morning. 
The crickets become dehydrated and lose nutritional value quickly, so then do not provide your gex with enough vitamins etc.

Another thing we noticed was that once or twice when we have used a white coloured sand, the gex have trouble seeing the crickets when they are dusted in calcium, as they tend to blend in a bit. 

Separating your gex within the enclosure is a very good idea too. You can more easily monitor how much each one is eating then.

We have never given ours water bowls, only misted the sides of the tank, the sand, and sometimes the gex themselves if they are out.

Michelle


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## LiasisKing (Sep 2, 2010)

some things for you to try... 
-put some fruit in the crickets box, this will make the crickets have a higher water contant, therefore hydrating your gex
-spray the sides of the tank daily (they will lick the water off the glass sides) 
-dust the crickets with calcium powder, and possibly vitamin D powder if you can get some from a petshop . 
-give them some sunlight - but do not leave them in the sum for more than 5 minutes - they can die from heat exhaustion VERY quickly
-make sure they have enough heat (if needed, get a bigger heat mat, or have less substrate) 
-make sure they can escape this heat
-try offering them slightly smaller crickets, or put the crickets in the fridge for 5 minutes before you feed them to your geckoes, this will make them less active, and the lizards will ude less effort to catch them 

if you do all this, you should be on your way to having healthier, happier, plumper geckoes ...


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## Echiopsis (Sep 2, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> -give them some sunlight - but do not leave them in the sum for more than 5 minutes



What? I cant think of a better way to stress them out.

Keep it simple. Separate tubs, 32 degrees at the hot end, mist the tub walls every couple of days. Terracotta dish hides at either end of the enclosure. Pump the food into them and leave them alone to feed. Messing with them and doing things like baking them in the sun will only slow the process.

Itll be touch and go, once they get to a certain point they can be hard to turn around.


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## shellfisch (Sep 2, 2010)

And Jay84 made a good point about not having too many crickets in there at once 
We noticed that early on with ours also, they really didn't like it

Michelle


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

You know what makes me angry Tasha 

The countless newbies that purchase animals not knowing diddly squat about them 

Show some initiative and research the animal you plan to keep not just wack them together
And hope for the best 

It's pretty simple Tasha .... The only difference between me and a few others I'll tell you how it is and no pussy foot around the point 

If you have a problem with that pm me and we will discuss it in depth


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## Jay84 (Sep 2, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> -give them some sunlight - but do not leave them in the sum for more than 5 minutes - they can die from heat exhaustion VERY quickly


 
What the???? Is this giving the crickets sunlight or the geckos?!?!?! I am perplexed as to why you would give either of them sunlight.

Please explain ????


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## tasha00 (Sep 2, 2010)

kupper said:


> You know what makes me angry Tasha
> 
> The countless newbies that purchase animals not knowing diddly squat about them
> 
> ...


 You did give good advice but the 1st comment was so " no pussy footing around " and if i was stressed myself about my animals that wernt doing so well that comment would have made me feel even worse, like i said ppl's advice on here is well and truly beyond valuable as alot of online sites give vague and some little knowledge yr right in saying that the initial research should have been done i agree 110% but as a newbie myself (which we all were once) i would have been deterred to come back and ask for advice again, sorry if i offended some ppl but remember thier are some kids on here that would just love a boost of confidence in knowing that that there are ppl in the forum that are not here to judge their lack of knowledge and 2 really help and promote good reptile information


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

Lack of knowledge in regards to basic care in most peoples books = don't buy an animal 

Your comments and not warranted or valid seeing as your a newbie yourself


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## Jay84 (Sep 2, 2010)

Kepp it nice guys. No one wants this thread deleted as its a good reference fro the original poster and others new to knobbies.


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## tasha00 (Sep 2, 2010)

kupper said:


> Lack of knowledge in regards to basic care in most peoples books = don't buy an animal
> 
> Your comments and not warranted or valid seeing as your a newbie yourself


 actually everyones comments are valid and my comment was to yr approach not advice read it propely..


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

Do you keep knobtails Tasha ? 

And jay you know how I roll :lol:


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## tasha00 (Sep 2, 2010)

kupper said:


> Do you keep knobtails Tasha ?
> 
> And jay you know how I roll :lol:


 Nar not yet just got my 1st stimmy she amazing and really enjoying her but it was "very much researched and thought through" but still could not have managed through my 1st week of brining her home without great support from ppl on the forum (thanx ppl's) I think we should just agree 2 disagree cause like it was said above alot of advice from others and yrself dosent need to be deleted because of difference of opinion, but like u i say it as it is and have no problem saying so.


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

WOW!!!!
Sorry everyone, I left the pc and got a little bit of shut-eye as i didnt get much last night.
Kupper, Jay84, Sarah and all the rest I've missed out coz I can't scroll back to find your names (sorry), thank you so much for your wealth of knowledge!
Everyone's input has been a mountain more than I have found in the books and other forums I've searched on, nothing like veterans to be able to diagnose a problem.
Tasha00, thanks for standing up for me, I wasn't expecting the post I got and yeah, it knocked me back a bit, especially when I was after assistance on how to fix the problem, not divert from it, but if I didn't come back, the situation wouldn't of been fixed either and I'd still be at square one in a heap with no idea what to do and taking in the wrong info like I had been. Again, thanks to all who posted, I will continue to update as to how they are going. Eating at the moment and drinking well. 
My corner hog is out and about and the other is running all over the shop, well moreso.


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## kupper (Sep 2, 2010)

have you seperated them?


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## Gecko :) (Sep 2, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> -give them some sunlight - but do not leave them in the sum for more than 5 minutes - they can die from heat exhaustion VERY quickly


 
This is another thing that gets to me,. I cant stand people that have no idea giving out wrong information!!
Knob Tail Geckos DON'T need sunlight,. if anything you will stress them out, Please dont follow this advice!!


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

Kupper, they are now in 2 seperate containers i have placed on the heat mat.

Half on, half off for a hot and cold section. 

Both are getting their fair share or spritzing and will be fed in a couple of hours.


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## Jay84 (Sep 2, 2010)

Gecko :) said:


> This is another thing that gets to me,. I cant stand people that have no idea giving out wrong information!!
> Knob Tail Geckos DON'T need sunlight,. if anything you will stress them out, Please dont follow this advice!!


 
I have asked what he meant by this but no response since? 

I can just imagine the poor little things fearing for their lives exposed in the sunlight!


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## LadyJ (Sep 2, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> some things for you to try...
> -put some fruit in the crickets box, this will make the crickets have a higher water contant, therefore hydrating your gex
> -spray the sides of the tank daily (they will lick the water off the glass sides)
> -dust the crickets with calcium powder, and possibly vitamin D powder if you can get some from a petshop .
> ...



Oh my god... I was going to say that you shouldn't post advice of you have no background knowledge or information on the subject but I see you actually keep geckos! You should know that the sunlight will damage their sensitive eyes and messing around with such small animals with compromised health to start with is the worst idea...


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## Richs (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry, didn't answer that one earlier... but no, I haven't put them in sunlight.


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## richoman_3 (Sep 2, 2010)

good to see that they are nearly in good health 
im enjoying reading this thread, all the info is great and i will use it all when i get my first knobbies hopefully near the end of the year


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## LadyJ (Sep 3, 2010)

If getting food into them is a problem, would baby food/puree also work for geckos? I know that baby food (with no preservities, artificial nasties or sweeteners!) can be used for tempting other species back into to eating, but would this be an option for gex?


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## Jay84 (Sep 3, 2010)

I am not sure about this as my knobbies feeding response is due to movement. If you put a dead cricket in the tub it will stay there uneaten.

LiasisKing.... i am still interested to hear why you would put your knobbies in the sunlight???


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## Ashrwee (Sep 3, 2010)

having the two in the same tank is fine as long as they have hides.. at the zoo i work at there are two in every tank with at least 2-3 hides and they seem to be fine.. we use water bowls (only small tho) as well as sparying the tank down.. we feed them crickets we put 4-6 in between every two and leave them in over night if any are still there in the morning we take them out.. we have above lights no heat mats, we also dont use calcium powder (we only use that on the iguanas)


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## kupper (Sep 3, 2010)

Ashrwee said:


> having the two in the same tank is fine as long as they have hides.. at the zoo i work at there are two in every tank with at least 2-3 hides and they seem to be fine.. we use water bowls (only small tho) as well as sparying the tank down.. we feed them crickets we put 4-6 in between every two and leave them in over night if any are still there in the morning we take them out.. we have above lights no heat mats, we also dont use calcium powder (we only use that on the iguanas)



Firstly why are you condoning not using calcium seeing as MBD has been documented in geckos ?

and secondly when an animal is in that bad a condition it is wise to separate to improve condition 

you say you work at a zoo ? which one do you work at?


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## tasha00 (Sep 3, 2010)

kupper said:


> Firstly why are you condoning not using calcium seeing as MBD has been documented in geckos ?
> 
> and secondly when an animal is in that bad a condition it is wise to separate to improve condition
> 
> you say you work at a zoo ? which one do you work at?


 afternoon friend..lol have a look at my thread i have pics up ?


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## LiasisKing (Sep 3, 2010)

from what i have gathered about them as a species, they are from the desert (am i right there ?) in the desert, there is sun (i think) so in theory, some sunlight cannot be bad for them, obviously not full sun, but some is surely better than none ... 

as with beardies as well apparently, taking them in the sun occasionally will bring out their colours (although that isn't really important)


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 3, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> from what i have gathered about them as a species, they are from the desert (am i right there ?) in the desert, there is sun (i think) so in theory, some sunlight cannot be bad for them, obviously not full sun, but some is surely better than none ...
> 
> as with beardies as well apparently, taking them in the sun occasionally will bring out their colours (although that isn't really important)


 They are nocturnal......


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## LiasisKing (Sep 3, 2010)

in my defence, i do have a clue ... i have given my knobbies occasional sunlight for the last 3 years, and they are plump, happy and healthy


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 3, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> in my defence, i do have a clue ... i have given my knobbies occasional sunlight for the last 3 years, and they are plump, happy and healthy


 Please anyone who is reading this dont pay any attention, Levis do not require sunlight and your more likely to do them harm than good


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## Echiopsis (Sep 3, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> from what i have gathered about them as a species, they are from the desert (am i right there ?) in the desert, there is sun (i think) so in theory, some sunlight cannot be bad for them, obviously not full sun, but some is surely better than none ...
> 
> as with beardies as well apparently, taking them in the sun occasionally will bring out their colours (although that isn't really important)



Theres also water in the desert, i better take my geckos out the back occasionally and let them have a swim in the pond.....it might improve their colours.

Ignore this poster, hes obviously clueless.


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## kupper (Sep 3, 2010)

geckos have no eyelids people so direct sunlight is definantly a NO NO !


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## Jay84 (Sep 3, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> from what i have gathered about them as a species, they are from the desert (am i right there ?) in the desert, there is sun (i think) so in theory, some sunlight cannot be bad for them, obviously not full sun, but some is surely better than none ...
> 
> as with beardies as well apparently, taking them in the sun occasionally will bring out their colours (although that isn't really important)


 
Liasis..... yes they do in fact come from the desert.... but they are also NOCTURNAL. Seeking shelter from the sun during daylight hours in burrows in the sand. Nice cool burrows where the humidity is just right. NOT sunlight.


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## Jay84 (Sep 3, 2010)

LiasisKing said:


> in my defence, i do have a clue ... i have given my knobbies occasional sunlight for the last 3 years, and they are plump, happy and healthy


 
Your poor geckos are subjected to frequent terror in the sun? Poor little things........


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## kupper (Sep 3, 2010)

PURE TERROR what ever will they do Jay :lol:


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## wasgij (Sep 3, 2010)

Hey guys, very humerous thread... but a serious question. everyone seems to feed their gex crickets, why not roaches? as i understand it they have quite a higher nutritional value than crickets so why not. or do they generaly just not go for it?


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## kupper (Sep 3, 2010)

i feed both crickets are easier for underweight animals to catch as they stay on the ground level


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## wasgij (Sep 3, 2010)

thanks mate


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 3, 2010)

I try to feed mine roaches but as kupper said crickets are usually easier for them to catch


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## Jay84 (Sep 3, 2010)

wasgij said:


> Hey guys, very humerous thread... but a serious question. everyone seems to feed their gex crickets, why not roaches? as i understand it they have quite a higher nutritional value than crickets so why not. or do they generaly just not go for it?



I tried the roaches, mine didn't take to them very well. Mine are fussy lol. Also, no matter how hard i tried i had escapees, which did not amuse the housemates lol


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## wasgij (Sep 3, 2010)

ah, k thanks guys. thought as much.
Jay84 - Hahaha i know what you mean. i have had a few escapees over the years and well... lets just say after my fiance found a woodie sitting on a towel she was about to wrap her hair up in... well she wasn't too happy! I have since mastered the art!


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## Jay84 (Sep 3, 2010)

Hahahahaha..... i can't take the risk of another one being found lol


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## Richs (Sep 7, 2010)

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks all for your responces and posts.
I changed the sand I was using from a white/yellow to a more course red. Being more dense, they were more inclined to dig and attempt to make a burrow. I have placed 2 terracotta (spelling) dishes in and they have become the most common place to find them. (one in the heated side, one in the cooler side).
Both are eating and eating well. 6-8 baby crickets/night. putting them in at 9pm and checking in the morning when I go to work. If all gone, I put in an extra 2-3. (Normally around 5-6am).
Heat is basically at a constant 32, 1 - 2 degree variency but thats it.
I have left the small water dish in as one of them has a habit of drinking from it and looked a little lost when I took it out. Heat rock has gone, but the magnetic hide I have kept as one of the little guys enjoys running in and eat whatever crickets are trying to hide as an early morning snack as the second continues to run laps. Was my birthday yesterday and the best present was seeing both of them and their tails wagging (still not sure as to why their "knob tail" wags like a worm at the end of a hook) but it's the cutest thing.


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## monitordude (Sep 7, 2010)

nice to hear they are going good now, you listened to everyone advice
and did a good job:lol:
hope all goes well with them in the future.


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## Jay84 (Sep 7, 2010)

Hey Richs,

That is great news! It really sounds like they are doing well. They should show a drastic increase in weight and condition over the following week!

Their little tails wagging is gorgeous. They get so excited and it seems they just can't control it lol. Feeding times and mating they just go crazy.

Oh... and happy birthday for yesterday!


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## Richs (Sep 9, 2010)

Cheers much 
The kids are digging and exploring every cm of their home at the moment. 
As of late, they enjoy playing "king of the mine" every night. (1 of the terracotta dishes are sticking out from a dirt mound, looks like a mine, they climb it and its kinda like a dash to see who can get the highest, normally happens just before nightfall).


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## Ozzie Python (Sep 9, 2010)

great to hear they are doing well now. hope they keep it up for you mate.


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## IgotFrogs (Sep 11, 2010)

thats awesome i'll be looking forward to see photos of them when they pick up some weight ..... dont forget to keep the cool end sand damp for them save on cave in's


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## Kristy_07 (Sep 11, 2010)

To Richs - Happy birthday!! And, also, good on you for coping one on the chin but taking the good advice that was given to you by some of the super-experienced gex guys on here. It's so good that your little guys have improved and seem to be happy and healthier now! Updated pics? 

To all - this was a really useful thread, for newbies, anyone thinking of getting knobbies, and anyone thinking of getting ANYTHING either without having done the research, OR, having done the research, but facing a problem early on and not knowing entirely how to deal with it on their own due to their newbiness. 

At Jay, your advice was 100% helpful, constructive, and without criticism - awesome attitude, and one that's often not given enough on APS (including by myself, occasionally  ).


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## dadaman (Sep 13, 2010)

kupper said:


> they are sand dwellers, all they need to do is dig and eat


 And Crap


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## Richs (Sep 15, 2010)

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!
Still not in a position to be able to name these guys yet due to knowledge of their sex, (have a rabbit that we named snowflake coz was sold as a female dwarf, actual fact, is neither female nor dwarf, believe he has been plotting our demise ever since) so for arguements sake G1 (slightly larger), and G2 (obviously slightly smaller) are both eating well above their weight class. 6-8 each/night at the moment and still have not chosen their favourite place in the enclosure. 
Magnetic Rock is always fun at feeding time (stupid crickets run in to hide), 
Gold Mine (terracotta dish in side of dirt mound) is the place of choice at night, and Bunker (terracotta dish over heat mat) is daylight hiding place.
Will place photos when I get the chance.


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## Jay84 (Sep 15, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> At Jay, your advice was 100% helpful, constructive, and without criticism - awesome attitude, and one that's often not given enough on APS (including by myself, occasionally  ).


 
Thanks Kristy! Although i can also be accused of non helpful comments sometimes lol.

Richs, that is so good to hear that they are still doing so well. Chomping down on 6-8 geckos a nigh they will be little fatties in no time! What a great result!

Maybe next time you take pics to post on here, include soe of their underside / vent area. We can all have a go at trying to sex them for you!


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## MadMyke (Sep 25, 2010)

Hi guys,

I've read through the whole post a couple of times because two questions have come to mind as I've read it, but I couldn't see the answer. So, I'm just wondering;

1) What exactly is wrong with using a heat rock? How and why is a heat mat better?
2) Using a heat mat, would you recommend running it along the back wall of the enclosure (positioned vertically), or running it underneath part of the enclosure (and therefore underneath the substrate). If underneath is better, what depth of substrate would you recommend?

Thanks very much, this is a great forum and tool for people like me looking to learn more about how to care for our little critters.


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## Sarah (Sep 25, 2010)

the heat mat should fit 1/3 of the tank that one third of the tank only gets a thin layer of sand, the other end is the deep end with about 10cm or so of sand that is kept moist for them to dig in.

i would not use a heat rock and if you use a heatmat or heat cord it should be connected to a thermostat .


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## MadMyke (Sep 25, 2010)

Thanks Sarah


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## Bearded_Penguin (Oct 13, 2010)

It seems I'm a little late to the thread but a couple extra points could do with a mention.

Richs,
You replaced the white/yellow sand with some kind of red sand. Just make sure any sand you use as a substrate it a natural sand. Some sands are produced with a crushing process that leaves the edges of the grains razor sharp, thus harming your geckos feet.

Also, be very careful with the magnetic hide. There have been numerous reports of limbs and feet getting pinched or broken due to snapping action of the magnets when the two halves are brought together.


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## Jay84 (Oct 13, 2010)

Bearded_Penguin said:


> Also, be very careful with the magnetic hide. There have been numerous reports of limbs and feet getting pinched or broken due to snapping action of the magnets when the two halves are brought together.


 
I have never used one of these hides before, but i thought the half that remains in the encloseure is 'stuck' to the glass? So it shouldn't be possible for any broken feet or limbs?


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## shellfisch (Oct 13, 2010)

Bearded_Penguin said:


> Also, be very careful with the magnetic hide. There have been numerous reports of limbs and feet getting pinched or broken due to snapping action of the magnets when the two halves are brought together.



I can't see their value with Levis?

We did get one to use with pythons. Both bits come apart (with force) and snap back together with considerable force. 
I can see how you could hurt your animal or even break the glass if you were not careful.
We chose not to use it.


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## sammy_sparkles (Oct 13, 2010)

im not even strong enough to pull the one i have apart (yes im a weakling lol), so i dont use it, but if i did i wouldnt recommend if for lizards...


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## Richs (Oct 15, 2010)

Hi all,
Thanks for the concern with regards to the magnetic rock. My guys/girls (still not sure of sex, photo's pending) use it like bunk beds. 1 prefers the top, the other prefers the bottom, provided they aren't playing hide and seek in the mine or bunker that is. With regards to seperating the pieces, i use the sand to make sure it sits flush against the glass and slide the outside piece into place rather than place it back directly onto the magnets. With the sand acting as a buffer, the inside piece doesn't move and there is no "snapping". 
I can't really see why or how limbs would get in the way if the inside piece is flush and once it's put there, there is no reason I can see to move it. Unless for cleaning or changing the sand but I take the geckos out of the enclosure before doing that anyways? 
Photo's over the weekend all and thanks for your help so far, kids have grown a lot!


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## Jay84 (Oct 15, 2010)

YAY !!!! pics pics pics! Cant wait to see how they have improved. I am really pleased they are going well.


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## Silverbrew (Oct 15, 2010)

always a good thing to see someone get their animals back on track well done mate, and well done for handling the criticism the way you did.

I have kept reptiles now in Australia as well as South Africa and always found that negative criticism was the hardest to hear.

cant wait to see your updated pics i am sure they are doing well.


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