# Spider observation



## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

I caught a dirty great spider, no idea what kind but big fangs, grey all over rounded abdomen, prolly a huntsman. Anyway Ive set up a wee spider hut with peatmoss, a moist sponge in a coke bottle top and loo roll core. been feeding it crickets and watching it, just for the hell of it. its munching on a cricket as we speak. its very agro btw.
ill observe it a while, see if i can overcome my fear of them, then let it go outside. 
no point in posting this really, but insomnia.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

Nup, can't handle those huntsmen. Nup nup nup. It's the legs. Longer than mine and I'm jealous.


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

Pics


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

Looks like a gravid female.

Here's my big beasty spider. 8)


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

I knew it, longer legs than me. Although you make it sound kinda cute, munching away happily in it's wee spider hut with the peat moss and all. I was feeling quite affectionate towards it until you posted the pics, Instar!


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

I wrote my last post before I saw your pet, swiftrat. All affection gone!


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

LOL!


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

What is it? Hippo-eating spider? How long do pet spiders live for? Do they become friendly, can you hold them and teach them to do tricks and eat out of your hand and stuff? Spiders are my absolute nightmare, but I figure that if I learn a bit more about them then perhaps I'll find they're ok afterall. I'd hate to be like one of those stupid, ignorant people out there who hate snakes but have never even met a python!


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

It's an Australia Tarantula (a _Selenocosmia sarina_ to be precise).

They can live for many years if kept correctly. Males tend to burn out after 5-6 years, but females have been known to hit the 13-15 years mark, maybe more.

I wouldn't consider them a "friendly" creature. They are very defensive animals and will not hesitate to rear up, strike, or bite aggressively if they are stirred up (usually when people try to handle them). I consider them more of an "observational creature" than a "pet". Strictly a Look-but-don't-Touch sort of animal.

Some people do try to handle them. It's incredibly risky, as the spiders are prone to taking off at 100 miles an hour. And when they fall, they tend to die. I think if they fall a distance more than their legspan, they crack like eggs (the fat abdomen literally ruptures). I've seen a 6cm legspan spider fall 4-5cm and it broke half its legs and a fang. It was a cow of a job looking after her til she next moulted, but she came good again after the moult. A lot of effort to keep her going was involved though, and at many times I considered euthenaising her.

Usually the only time an aussie tarantula should be held is if it requires medical attention (ie: if they get a broken leg, they can pretty much bleed to death).

They don't become friendly, but they do get used to seeing you in the room after a while (ie: they'll sit on the substrate surface and wont run away into their hide or burrow when they sense your footsteps approaching).

Feeding them by hand is just asking to be bitten. The spiders lunge and sink their fangs into any potential feed. Be it a cricket, woodie, or a nice big fat pink fleshy human hand. I use tweezers when dropping crickets or woodies in my spider tanks.

If you wanna edumacate yourself, head over to Nome's "Save Our Spiders" website, it's dedicated to the conservation of native tarantulas.

http://www.aussiereptilekeeper.com/save_our_tarantulas/

Also (and this might sound crazy), but each spider is individual and does have "personality". Not all tarantulas are marauding demon-beast monsters. I've seen some totally placid spiders that don't mind been herded around their tank, or even touched. Of course, there is the hissing and spitting angry type as well. Depends on species, sex, locale type, and the spider's previous captive history.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

They sound like much more fragile and much less fearsome creatures than I'd always thought them to be. I didn't realise they were so delicate. I have a whole new respect for them now. And I can't help but feel a softness towards such a fragile little creature. No wonder they are so defensive. I'm glad you managed to save the fall-victim spider, poor little thing.

Thanks for such an informative reply. If ignorance breeds fear, then surely knowledge can dissipate it!


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

reptililian said:


> I knew it, longer legs than me. Although you make it sound kinda cute, munching away happily in it's wee spider hut with the peat moss and all. I was feeling quite affectionate towards it until you posted the pics, Instar!



LOl






:lol: Sorry to burst the bubble, its more like this....






:lol:


P.s Swiftrat, thankyou for some fascinating insight into tarantulas!, Awesome stuff! Gotta love nature!


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

Awww, I love the 2nd pic cos you can see how fluffy and fuzzy it is! Just like a puppy but with 4 extra legs!!! Checked out that website and I reckon it'd be neat to get a little spiderling! How sweet is their name, even... spiderling! I had no idea that some people caught them from the wild for the pet trade. What an awful practice.

How is your happy little muncher? No wonder she's so keen on the crickets if she's gravid, she's eating for 200!


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

LOl, I barely know one spider from another, if its got 8 legs and its not wet its a spider! btw just this minute have id'd it from tv show ,its definately a huntsman, but as for sex or gravid who knows! its eating a few crix a day but. might give it a big woodie or two! 

Just incidently, I have no idea re the legality of my observing this huntsman (which I have called 'charlotte, in your honor, Reptilian )
But I will release it shortly somewhere nearby. (my god ill ruin the local huntsman genepool !)

AS for the pet trade, I dont see how it will dimish or actually effect wild populations any, unless perhaps only gravid females were taken in the thousands, even then it would hardly make a dent surely?


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## zard (Dec 4, 2005)

embarresingly spiders terrify me specially if they are of the big hairy flyspray resistant variety


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

Bah, it's the little tiny spiders you need to worry about. No one has ever died from a huntsman or aussie tarantula bite. Them little redbacks and whitetails are your #1 enemy.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

I knew you were just going to watch Charlotte for a bit than release her. And she's obviously not too stressed out if she's eating so well. But I checked out that website that swiftrat put up, and it says that native tarantula populations are diminishing cos people catch them from the wild for the pet market, but that the poor little critters usually end up dying anyway as they can't adjust to life in captivity. Sounds so sad. (Please note, I'm not putting you in this catagory, instar. You said right from the beginning what your intentions were. And like I said, she doesn't sound stressed!)

Check out the website, it's really interesting. I've learnt so much both from it and from swift rat and now see these little beasties in a whole new light!

Cheers, Lily

PS. I totally dig her name!


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

instar said:


> As for the pet trade, I dont see how it will dimish or actually effect wild populations any, unless perhaps only gravid females were taken in the thousands, even then it would hardly make a dent surely?



Actually, it has. The mass collecting of gravid females from the granite gullies up in North QLD during breeding season have virtually made a species of aussie tarantula extinct. I think it's _Selenotypus sp2 _or _sp3_ thats in trouble. People collect (or rather, I should say POACHED) them for the pet stores and miscorrectly ID them as _Selenotypus plumipes_.

Some jackass spread the rumour that _S. plumipes_ were the largest and most docilest tarantula in Australia, so hobbyists and newbies went nuts wanting to get hold of them. Boy were they in for a rude surprise, most _S. plumipes_ are aggressive as all buggery, and don't get much bigger than 16cm legspan. Zeyda (my _Selenocosmia sarina_) is 17cm and still growing! :roll: 

Overcollecting from the wild is having an impact on native tarantulas. They only breed once a year (maybe twice if the season is good), and it takes a good 6 years bewteen generations, so it's very easy to wipe out locale populations... the EPA added Aussie tarantulas and corpions to the Protected Species list back in March, and only licenced wildlife harvesters could sell wild-caughts to pet stores, but the trouble is, any Tom, Dick, or Sally could go out bush and collect for themselves. The EPA can't patrol every bushland 24/7.


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

By the way, for the last few months, native spider enthusiasts have been working together to get an official Australian Tarantula Association (ATA) up and running. The website and forums are coming along nicely, but until the big opening day, it's closed off from search engine indexes and that. The main goals at the moment are raising public awareness of the existence of these species, and also to get a captive-breeding regime in place to supply the pet trade so that the wild populations are left alone.

If anyone's interested in knowing more about the ATA, send me a PM.


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

Must be other factors contributing or perhaps tarantulas are in isolated pockets (populations) dependant heavily on specific microclimate? It is sad that they die because the cant adjust, but i must say that sounds to be poor husbandry more than poor adaption , afterall some must adapt or there wouldnt be any cb ones. typically petshops offer animals with little or no information or incorrect information regards care, selling to people with even less clue, its not surprising they die. 

Charlotte will be realeased, probably this evening, meanwhile its enjoying crix, its absolutly ravenous, i just threw in a cricket and it raced down and grabbed it immediately. Its awesome, and creepy, to watch.


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

> They only breed once a year (maybe twice if the season is good), and it takes a good 6 years bewteen generations, so it's very easy to wipe out locale populations..



Ah now that explains alot Swiftrat,(high mortality rates with spiderlings?) Must a hell of alot of poaching going on though, I wouldnt have thought there would be that much intrest in spiders but then again its down to mighty dollar, Got me beat why folk pay (to me) ridiculous prices, for a pet spider, Thats demand obviously, shame its always demand for less common things. 
Anyone want a pet German cockroach? only $80 !! Folk will buy absolutely anything, its amazing.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

Swiftrat, you've sure got the gas on spiders! How long have you dug them for to know so much about them?

A German Cockroach... boy oh boy oh boy, I've never had one of those before. Can you teach them tricks? And only $80. Bargin! Can I get a pair???


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## instar (Dec 4, 2005)

Sure, if you repeat phrases they learn to speak, this one says "I love you" and can jump through little firey hoops! LMAO 

The ultimate indestructible pet, will survive nuclear war !!!

Avoid contact with rubber thongs and other footware. no responsibility taken, no refund.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

So muchy laughing! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

lol 

I've been into aussie Ts for a couple of years now. Done a helluva lotta reading up on them and even met arachnologist folks like Steve Nunn from Mackay. 

There'a a huge poaching/smuggling ring for Aussie tarantulas out there. Overseas collectors throw thousands for these spiders from the black/undergound-markets. Many get smuggled out of the country but thankfully AQIS catches a lot of the spiders (they've been hidden in film cannisters right into the stuffing of toy teddybears!) People will go to extreme lengths to get them, and it maddens me when dumbasses from Canada boast about getting out of Sydney airport with a sydney funnel web stashed in their luggage, or some brazilian twat laughing about how he got an adult _Selenocosmia crassipes_ hidden in a plastic tube in his jacket while on the plane.

There are also a lot of unscrupulous people that prey on hobbyist newbies by selling them wild-caught adult spiders for $300-$600 and passing them off as captive-breds, only for the newbie to join a tarantula forum and find out they've been duped out of a lot of money when they could have boaught a true captive bred spider for as little as $20 - $40. One of my friends (who is experienced in spider keeping) got screwed out of $250 for a wild-caught tarantula and it died a couple of weeks later from some gross slug-like parasite. He wasn't very happy.


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## OuZo (Dec 4, 2005)

*Insert 1950's horror movie type scream here*


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

She's gunna getcha, OuZo! :lol:


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

That makes me furious. If you want to smuggle something, smuggle drugs for crying out loud. At least drugs can't experience pain, fear, stress etc. Drugs are hardly likely to become "extinct". And I'd say something about removing animal-smugglers from the gene pool just as some countries remove drug smugglers from the gene pool, but it's a bit too soon after Friday's event, and I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty anyway.

However, I call for harsher penalties for animal smugglers.

PS, I AM opposed to drug smuggling also, just trying to get my point across strongly.


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## reptililian (Dec 4, 2005)

Aw Zo, but look at how sweet and fuzzy and cute she is. And she's so fragile and tender.


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## OuZo (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm still shuddering from my last post Lil lol. I'm not convinced about the fragile part though! I had a daddy longlegs come back from the dead to get me once....it's moments like those that have damaged me for life :shock:

Swifty that one's actually quite pretty...nice and silky looking...still wouldn't like her on my wall though lol


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## Koula (Dec 4, 2005)

You're right OuZo. Aussie Ts don't really like climbing walls. They're terrestrial ground-lovers. Only time the bolt up walls is if they're spooked/scared.


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## OuZo (Dec 4, 2005)

Matey, they'll do anything when I'm around


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## newtosnakes (Dec 4, 2005)

Swiftrat, I take 1 look at those pics of your spiders and commence cold sweats and manic fear. I have no issues with the occasional huntsmen living around me, but to see your tarantula just gives me the heeby jeebies. I am sooooooooo scared of them, the hair and long legs..... give me a python any day!! :lol:


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## instar (Dec 7, 2005)

Well Charlotte the huntsman returned to wild twice the size she was when caught (looked it anyway, may well have been gravid) after munching through 15 large crix in 3 days! 
She was released to the shelter of a tree and some shrubbery, where hopefully shell avoid the birds
for whatever remains of her days. How long do huntsmans live anyway? 


P.s. so much for facing your fears, they still scare me shiftless! 
It ran toward me instead of the other way when I released it, I damn near jumped through a colorbond fence! :lol:


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2005)

PMSL

Oh he just wanted a hug Inny!


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

We used to have a huge huntsman in the blokes dunnies of the accomodation block i lived in at Holsworthy. My mate Griffo and I used to hand feed it moths for a good 12 months, geez that thing grew up huge!!! We called it "Alfrodo Boggins" until one day it just up and left. Ungrateful little so and so!! 

It was funny though, we used to make all the joobie diggers salute him as they entered the toilets!!!


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## BeardyBen (Dec 8, 2005)

I have a pet female huntsmen that i have had for a year now she was gravid when I found her and has had 2 lots of kiddies over the last year which I have released in my garden I think she is amazing and I keep her well fed and housed. is this against the law?


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

BeardyBen said:


> is this against the law?



I wouldn't say so. I think it's only native tarantulas and scorpions that are illegal to take from the wild without a harvesting licence. And the breeding and releasing of a common huntsman spider I can't see as having any adverse effect on the local ecosystem. You probably find that only 2 or 3 out of all those hundreds of babies only ever made it to maturity.


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## Possum (Dec 8, 2005)

*Spider*

How old is your spider SwiftRat?


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

Which one? *has 20+ tarantulas here*


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## Possum (Dec 8, 2005)

*Spider*

Your girl in the pics. :lol:


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

Zeyda? No idea... at least 5 or 6+ years?


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## alexr (Dec 8, 2005)

Zeyda is gorgeous swiftrat!

Have you ever been bitten? Might not kill you but with fangs like that I don't think that it would tickle either.

We have had the odd WC spider for a pet, but it aways causes such grief ftrom my wife they end up getting relased again.


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

Nope. Too smart to not get bitten. Bites are easily avoided as long as you are super-careful when moving the spiders around.

One of my friends breeds Ts, and he's copped a nice good one from his "placid" _S. plumipes_. He said at first he didn't feel the bite, it was when she removed her fangs, he described it as his whole arm suddenly felt like it was on liquid fire for about 2 hours., then for the next 12 hours, it felt like someone had slammed his whole arm in a car door real hard. After than, for the next 24 hours his arm started to feel like it was turning into heavy lead, and he had head-cold symptoms. He chugged down a heap of painkillers and after 2 or 3 days, the pain had dwindled away.

That was a big full grown adult too, and her fangs were in him for 3 seconds.

The nasty part with tarantula fangs isn't so much the envenomation - it wont kill ya, just knock you around a bit, but depending on where you get bitten, severe mechanical damage can be done, say like severed tendons/ligaments in your hand if the spider sinks its fangs in the right spot.

ONe of the main reasons why we strongly discourage newbies from trying to handle the spiders. American tarantula temperments are totally different to Australian ones.


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## newtosnakes (Dec 8, 2005)

> One of my friends breeds Ts, and he's copped a nice good one from his "placid" S. plumipes. He said at first he didn't feel the bite, it was when she removed her fangs, he described it as his whole arm suddenly felt like it was on liquid fire for about 2 hours., then for the next 12 hours, it felt like someone had slammed his whole arm in a car door real hard. After than, for the next 24 hours his arm started to feel like it was turning into heavy lead, and he had head-cold symptoms. He chugged down a heap of painkillers and after 2 or 3 days, the pain had dwindled away.




and yes, this is why I am scared of spiders........... :shock:


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## reptililian (Dec 8, 2005)

> It ran toward me instead of the other way when I released it, I damn near jumped through a colorbond fence





> Oh he just wanted a hug Inny!


Totally! She just wanted to say "thanks" Instar! Those cute, fuzzy little arachnids, they're just so huggly and cuddly!

I love your girl's name, Swiftrat. It's beautiful. Suits her. Here's the ultimate litmus test for how much you dig your critters... do they all have names?


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## hornet (Dec 8, 2005)

i have just bred tarantulas for the first time and wat an experience it is, but i'm gettin to the hard bit, feeding the 2nd instars but i'll survive.T's are awsome animals, i have only really just got into them and i also live in gladstone with swiftrat, if any one is interested in a t or 2, pm me.
John


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## zulu (Dec 8, 2005)

*re Spider*

God starve the lizards the bites sound awsum like slamming your arm in a car door i PMSL!!.I put a pick up afew months ago of a riverheads QLD triantelope thing eating a lizard,i think it was a wolf spider but arnt sure.Cane toads looked scared of the big bludger that was hiding under a block of would,i donged the toads on the head for cowardice  The lizard was as dead as maggott and was being eaten or having its guts sucked out whatever they do,ide resued the poor skink from the cat in the house the day before,he had tuff luck eh :roll:


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

The spiders gain names once they are old enough to be sexed. I have a heap of nameless captive bred 2nd instar spiderlings, but all my big girls are named. There's Atima, Kana, Lilith, Zeyda and Pinktoe.


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## reptililian (Dec 8, 2005)

Fab names but OH GOOD GOSH, HOW DO YOU SEX A SPIDER? (I'm thinking just ask politely)


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

It's virtually impossible to sex them by eye until they reach penultimate or ultimate instar. But if you have a microscope you can sex them by their exuviums (shed skins or moults) by looking at the spermathacae pockets in the abdominal region... I think...


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## reptililian (Dec 8, 2005)

Sounds much more polite than snake-sexing. Next qu (sorry Swiftrat, but hopefully it's not just me learning about these little guys!) what is an instar? (I thought it was that clever pensioner snake from Syd!)


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

An instar is the stage of growth of an insect, arachnid or other arthropod between moults.

A 2nd instar spiderling is teeny tiny (fresh out of the eggsac) at about 5mm legspan, where as a 6th instar spiderling would be about 3cm+ legspan.


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## NoOne (Dec 8, 2005)

Do people actually think that all exotic tarantulas are smuggled in?

Go into any big city and it's not hard to find what your looking for, it's the same as reptiles, plenty of them being bred here.

Until i was with Nome i only ever seen aussie Ts a couple of times, my spider collection only consisted of the good old Sydney and Blue mountains funnel webs. Aussie Ts are pussy cats compared to them. I have to say, not quite as interesting though IMO :wink: *runs from Nome* just kidding Ts are awesome.

Heres a pic i took of one of our pairs mating this season, they are (under the old classification) Phlogiellus sp.


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

I dont. Apparently there's a rumoured underground breeding going on in Oz for the "classic" exotics. B. smithi and the Indian (or is it Sri-lankan?) ornamental seem to be the popular ones talked about behind the dumpsters at the Macca's carpark. 

Seriously though - I think owning a critter that's constantly gunna make you red and itchy would suck. Thank gawd Aussie Ts don't have urticatious setae ("itchy-hairs" for the learners).


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## NoOne (Dec 8, 2005)

Rumoured? Underground? Want a T blondi? How many? lol it's not exactly secretive.

Come on swifty you've got friends :wink:


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

Sorry matey, I know nuthin'. :roll:


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## NoOne (Dec 8, 2005)

Wasn't having a dig at ya swifty, sorry if i offended you, thought you would catch my drift.


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## Koula (Dec 8, 2005)

Lol, you're alright Steve - I ain't offended. *rat-noses*


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