# Diporiphora sp. ID



## clopo (Oct 13, 2012)

What does everyone think about this little fella? I wont give a location yet and just say it was found in QLD.




Untitled by R. Francis, on Flickr


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 13, 2012)

Without access to more details I would say it is most likely a Canegrass Dragon (_Diporiphora winneckei)_. 

Blue


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## Mulgaaustralis (Oct 13, 2012)

Bilineata ?


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## jordo (Oct 13, 2012)

They're a very difficult genera to ID (at least for me). It's almost not worth hazarding a guess but for the sake of having a go I will say D. winneckei. I base this on the fact that it looks arid in the photo, and after looking at some of the other photos in your flickr (Painted Finch) I would presume I am correct.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 13, 2012)

As said, very difficult to ID, any method other than keying them from papers NOT BOOKs in the field is fraught with error. I got 3 Diporiphora in the Kimberly 2 of them looked like D.albilabiris and one like D.bennetti yet all 3 keyed out too D.arnhemica (yet not even perfectly to that)....


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## JasonL (Oct 13, 2012)

Just call em all tommy round heads lol..... those things do my head in... skin folds ect... clip the end of its tail off put it in a test tube of Diporight, shake three times (not four) and if it turns blue.....


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## clopo (Oct 13, 2012)

Thanks guys, I was thinking D. winneckei as well. The location would be on the outskirts of D. winneckei's distribution, near Duchess. The issue i had was that it is a spitting image of the D. billineata that i have found north of Mount Isa. Being found in between the current distribution ranges of the two species just confused me as to which it was.


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## jordo (Oct 13, 2012)

What sort of habitat was it found in? D. winneckei are usually associated with spinifex or canegrass. The book says bilineata are found in woodlands or sandy coastline.
Stephen do you have the papers you mentioned?


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## clopo (Oct 13, 2012)

It was actually found on a rehabilitated mine waste rock dump, which is dominated by buffel grass. However the surrounding land is mostly spinifex.


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## vicherps (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm thinking Diporiphora winneckei as others have said.


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## eipper (Oct 13, 2012)

Lalliae at a guess but these are a mess. Currently there is a dip being described from near Noombah station. There are a number of other species from both the australis and bilineata groups awaiting description. You need take as many details down as possible and await a decent description to come out.....in the mean time Diporophora sp


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## vicherps (Oct 13, 2012)

D.lalliae are not even found in Qld. There are many species within a complex that await scientific discription however I like to name something under what what it currently known iuntil the taxonomic status has been made officially. I'm still sticking with winneckei it does look rather like one considering where it was found. Then again I find that quite a few Diporiphora sp look rather similar to one another hence the fact the fact that what can be currently known as one species actually comprise of several species once genetic analysis is done.


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## eipper (Oct 13, 2012)

Micah,

Pull your head in. Have you herped around this area or are you basing your information from books only? I suggested lalliae as I have seen them on the qld side of the border. As for your taxonomic considerations....well there is a really simple way to Id the animal in question it is Diporophora sp.
Scott


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 14, 2012)

I do know one method that can be utilised to settle it, once and for all! However it does require access to the necessary resources…. has anyone got a coin?

Blue


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## clopo (Oct 14, 2012)

Thanks Scott, I didnt even think of D. lalliae. I see on the Atlas of Living Australia there is a record of D. lalliae not to far away. Noonbah Station isnt too far away however it is quite different habitat. Due to the location and habitat it is more likely D. lalliae or D. winneckei, or at least something pretty similar. Is there much work being done on Diporiphora?

Also Micah, animals dont take notice of state boundaries or distribution maps. I recently found a Litoria wotjulumensis about 300km from where the books say it should be and i know Scott has found a few others nearby.


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## vicherps (Oct 14, 2012)

eipper said:


> Micah,
> 
> Pull your head in. Have you herped around this area or are you basing your information from books only? I suggested lalliae as I have seen them on the qld side of the border. As for your taxonomic considerations....well there is a really simple way to Id the animal in question it is Diporophora sp.
> Scott



Scott, I was simply putting my opinion on "public forum" I wasn't having ago at you. May I ask do you have something against me? The reason I ask this is when I ask you things you tend to ignore me (or perhaps your very busy) and on quite a few occasions your comments towards me are negative. What have I done to you? If you could tell me why then maybe then I would understand.

As for the Diporiphora in question having a look at the ventrals should provide the answer. I guess it would be safe to say given the taxonomic mess up of this genus calling a Diporiphora sp is fine.

- - - Updated - - -



clopo said:


> Also Micah, animals dont take notice of state boundaries or distribution maps. [/hbQUOTE]
> Yeah I know.
> I guess all distribution maps are rough estimates some animals are restricted in distribution to a certain areas and quite specific micro/macro habitat that are only found in certain areas (the distribution maps for those would be more accurate than widespread sp) while others are widespread and migrating to different areas.
> 
> ...


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## eipper (Oct 14, 2012)

Hi all,

I have said it before and I will say it again reptiles don't read books or keys.....it would be much too easy if they did....but less of a challenge!

Here is a winnekei






This is not what Ryan found as note the striping on the ventral surface of a winnekei vs the animal below

Here is a lalliae





This is a closer (but by no means perfect) fit for Ryans lizard. The black shoulder patch in particular is problematic.

Here is a ??? (which I think is the same as Ryan's Lizard)





I cannot comfortably put this into any of the current Diporophora's recognised. Simply put either this animal does not conform to the current key, is a new species or an abberant specimen. Rather than assign to a species I would rather leave it at generic level identification until such time the genus is better understood. Hopefully the papers coming out in the near(?) future will help to clarify the group.

Micah,
I will contact you via pm as this will go off topic

Cheers,
Scott


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## clopo (Oct 14, 2012)

I think your on to something, one thing i noticed is that there is only one Diporiphora species which covers the Mount isa inlier/North west highlands bioregion (D. magna). Even though a bilineata/lalliae type Diporiphora is present in the area. I will have a look at work through the week to see which species have been recorded in the area. To me the colouration is very similar in quite a few of them, with habitat probably being a better way of determining the species. It will be interesting to see what happens to the group in the future.

Below is another photo of the same individual, as you can see it is very similar to Scotts Diporiphora ???sp. which was found only about about 70km away.

View attachment 267725


Cheers

Ryan


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 14, 2012)

*Dopo*, Unfortunately the attachment did not work. I had initially dismissed the presence of a gular fold in the original photo, thinking it to be a sharp line of colour change. I now doubt that. Can you say if it had a gular pouch and whether there were grey or yellowish streaks on the ventral area? Also, do you have a photo taken of the dorsal view? I am not so much trying to pin it down to an existing taxon as get a feel for just how much it does vary from others.Thanks in anticipation.

Blue


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## clopo (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm unsure of the gular fold, i only had time to take 5 quick photos before he went into a pile of wood. I had work to do so left it at that. 
Here is a dorsal view. 







- - - Updated - - -

I had a look through some old fauna surveys done at work and there are a few records of a Diporiphora sp. which were labelled as a two lined dragon. A few records are only a few years old which would suggest that they did not key out to D. billineata, however looked similar. There were no records of Diporiphora on the site which this fella was found.


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## jamesn48 (Oct 16, 2012)

Don't know if this helps at all but I just found this Diporiphora revision on Zootaxa
http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2012/f/zt03518p024.pdf


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## Hamalicious (Oct 16, 2012)

You guys are all stupid. They are clearly lizards....


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