# Rare frogs die in breeding mishap



## diamondgal79 (Dec 13, 2009)

*Published On:* 12-11-2009
*Source:* canberra times

The ACT's northern corroboree frog breeding program at Tidbinbilla has been put back at least a year after the failure of a refrigeration unit resulted in the death of 700 tadpoles and 300 juvenile frogs.

*Go to Original Article*


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## hallie (Dec 13, 2009)

Thats a shame...:|

A program so critical you would think they would already have temp alarms...?


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## greeny1 (Dec 13, 2009)

wow, thats a real shame.


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## wiz-fiz (Dec 13, 2009)

that sucks, i alsio think they would have temp alarms.


Will


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## IgotFrogs (Dec 13, 2009)

yes you would have thought they would have a backup system or two inplace to stop such a thing from happening!


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## diamondgal79 (Dec 13, 2009)

i saw this in the paper and thought it was just a horrid waste.
Many people want them to make the frogs available to breeders so this kind of thing just couldnt happen.
Its the ONLY breeding program for these frogs.
If they allowed breeders to help, the frogs would make a massive comeback in a matter of years.
It would also prevent things like this happening as thye would have breeding populations all over the place.


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## wiz-fiz (Dec 13, 2009)

yeah private keepers should b aloud 2 breed theses, but can only get them from this place, and then maybe give 50% of the tadpols they breed back 2 this place 2 release or something. would deffinetly help the survival.


Will


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 13, 2009)

Not good!!!!!!!


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## carpetmuncher (Dec 13, 2009)

hallie said:


> Thats a shame...:|
> 
> A program so critical you would think they would already have temp alarms...?


 
alarms, UPS, all stuff that a lot of private keepers have.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 13, 2009)

willia6 said:


> yeah private keepers should b aloud 2 breed theses, but can only get them from this place, and then maybe give 50% of the tadpols they breed back 2 this place 2 release or something. would deffinetly help the survival.
> 
> 
> Will


It would be a quarantine nightmare
But i agree that they need more than 1 breeding program


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## potato matter (Dec 13, 2009)

I think they should have more than one breeding programs, but only run by experts and doctors of herpetology etc.


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## garycahill (Dec 13, 2009)

diamondgal79 said:


> i saw this in the paper and thought it was just a horrid waste.
> Many people want them to make the frogs available to breeders so this kind of thing just couldnt happen.
> Its the ONLY breeding program for these frogs.
> If they allowed breeders to help, the frogs would make a massive comeback in a matter of years.
> It would also prevent things like this happening as thye would have breeding populations all over the place.


 
It is not the only breeding facility for these frogs, ARC in Vic also has a breeding program in place & has done so for at least 8 years that I know of.
It is all well & good to say that private keepers should be able to keep these frogs, but how do you propose that private keepers are going to be able to regulate the temps required to keep them? There is a lot more to keeping this species than meets the eye. Minus temps are not uncommon for these. The other side of it is the quarintine aspect. Without correct quarintine, the frogs will never be able to be released. I am yet to see a private keeper that has a quarintine system that would allow for release into the wild.


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## bump73 (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm pretty sure they are being bred at Taronga zoo as well so it definately isn't the only place breeding them..

EDIT : not sure if Taronga has the northern ones or the other ones or if there is a difference
Ben


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 13, 2009)

Yes they are 2 different species
Taronga definitely breed the southern ones but iv not heard about them breeding the northern


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## froggyboy86 (Dec 13, 2009)

Its bad news and highlights some of the risks associated with relying on captive breeding to protect species. I think it would be really irresponsible to allow amateur keepers to attempt to breed frogs like Pseudophryne pengilleyi/corroboree. These frogs were only successfully bred in captivity after years of trying and research...


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## Reptilia (Dec 13, 2009)

ARC, melbourne zoo, taronga zoo breed the southern. tidbinbila breed the northern. ARC hold only a handul of northern.


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## solar 17 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Government breeding !!!!!!*

*Reminds me of the governments attempt at breeding the Oenpelli Python ....something as simple as a temp alarm ....doubt we will see any of this mob on "who wants to be a millionaire"....cheers solar 17 [Baden]*


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## diamondgal79 (Dec 14, 2009)

Its very sad.
im not saying let every newbie in the game have a breeding a pair and wish them luck,
im saying why not let experienced keepers help with the program?
Makes sense to me not to put all your eggs in one basket when dealing with an endangered species.
And im sure the breeders who took up the challenge would make sure they did everything in their power to keep these little guys going.
Cheers DG


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## Sdaji (Dec 14, 2009)

diamondgal79 said:


> Its very sad.
> im not saying let every newbie in the game have a breeding a pair and wish them luck,
> im saying why not let experienced keepers help with the program?
> Makes sense to me not to put all your eggs in one basket when dealing with an endangered species.
> ...



I remember having the same thoughts back when they were starting the Corroborree Frog breeding program. With most species you would be exactly right, let the private keepers have a few and quickly the population is safe, at least in captivity. However, this is not always the case with frogs, and in this case, the husbandry requirements are outside what most people can offer. Among other requirements, to breed these things you need a walk in fridge to cycle their temperatures.

I don't know of any private reptile keeper who has a walk in fridge to house cold climate animals, so there seems little point selling them to private keepers. If a private individual actually wanted to pay the $10,000 - $20,000 to set such a facility up for their own personal use, they would probably be allowed to have some if they wanted to jump through a few basic red tape hoops - put the money on the table to let them know you're serious about building a facility to keep cold-climate mountain frogs, and you'll probably get them. There is no commercial potential for them because if you need to keep them in a fridge (and they won't thrive next to your butter and leftovers by the way  ) you can't have them on display, even if you do provide them with a dedicated fridge, so basically no one will ever want to keep one once they understand what is involved. Without the ability to sell any of the offspring to anyone, there is no point breeding them - they can't be released because of quarantine concerns, and the same things killing the existing wild ones will kill the ones you release anyway.

So, unfortunately this is a difficult species to deal with, and it doesn't fit the same pigeon hole as something like a Rough-scaled or Oenpelli Python which people can and want to keep and breed.


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## JasonL (Dec 14, 2009)

I doubt most experienced people would even want to attempt to keep / breed them, usually it's just those with a little knowledge who think they can do it...


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## Sdaji (Dec 14, 2009)

JasonL said:


> I doubt most experienced people would even want to attempt to keep / breed them, usually it's just those with a little knowledge who think they can do it...



Few people would want to spend the $20,000 (or whatever a purpose-built walk in fridge room would cost - probably more come to think of it) and few people would actually want to work in a fridge on a project which would never allow them to make any money or even give away any babies they produced.

However, it is easy to understand how people might misunderstand the situation and think "Why don't they just let private keepers have them?" when they don't realise how specialised the species' needs are. I know when I first heard about it all (about 10 years ago), I had the same thoughts at first.

For many species it is entirely correct though, the best way to conserve them is to freely allow private individuals to have them.


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## gecko-mad (Dec 14, 2009)

at least 2 breeding programs and 4 back ups! bit expensive though, but worth it


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## the_jungle_jim (Dec 14, 2009)

Perhaps these animal rights nutters could pool a bit of money (instead of giving it to lawyers to fight against animal keeping) and hand it to a few competent individuals to expand the captive breeding of animals such as this.

This would only be justified if the keepers could account for every cent that was donated by the nutters.

Hey nutters, help save some animal species from extinction instead of destroying other animals because they are in captivity and can't be released.


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