# Adult green python price ?



## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

I am looking for opinions on what people here consider to be the value of an adult green python if it was offered for sale. This discussion is very important and the relavance will become clear in the near future.
I believe $40 000 is what I would expect an adult pair to realistically fetch.
Comments please.
Cheers Dave


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## MrBredli (Oct 26, 2005)

So many variables to consider, i would say $40000-70000 depending on a million different things.


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

Let get rid of a few variables.
Heathy young captive bred adults and genuine Australian cape york animals.


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## womas4me (Oct 26, 2005)

Dave, in the gtp thread, it throws doubt on all testing procedures to prove genuine aussie animals. Would there be a 100% provable way to ensure they are what they are said to be?

If potential earnings are taken into account, i think $40 k is a steal and you should sell them to me.


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## basketcase (Oct 26, 2005)

taking the price for a hatchy as 5k, like it used to be :roll: i'd say nothing over 20k.

compare aspidites to antaresia, the high end animals dont appreciate (percentage wise) like the less expensive species.

not that many adult green pairs come up for sale... but dont you love just the highly controversial hypothetical situation :roll:


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## pugsly (Oct 26, 2005)

I dont care what snake it is $40,000 for a pair of snakes is plain ridiculous. Unless I had that much money to be throwing around on hobbies then no way would I be paying that much money for any animal for that matter. 

Yeah of course 'potential' earnings are going to be much greater, but lets remember there are also things that can go wrong, including:

a) they don't breed.
b) one was to die.
c) they get stolen by some low life peice of ...

JMO


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

Lets say that these animals are off spring of legally collected cape york animals.
And womas4me NO YOU CAN"T KEEP THEM IN W.A so behave your self other wise I would just give them to you.... honest I would. :shock:


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## basketcase (Oct 26, 2005)

when i say 20k thats what i might pay, not that i ever will. like pugsly said thats just too much money. considering the lack of captive animals you could pretty much set whatever price you like.


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

There is nothing hypothetical about this except for the fact that they have not yet been offered for sale. These pythons do exist.


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## saxon (Oct 26, 2005)

I would offer 25k


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## MrBredli (Oct 26, 2005)

I think they could fetch around $55000 if you can find the right buyer. How old are they, presumably they haven't bred before?


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

Yes some have bred


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## saxon (Oct 26, 2005)

think about it its usually only up to 50% more for adults and thats if they have bred before. you might buy a pair of breeding bredli for 1000 and make 10 grand when they breed so the profit margin is still the same. potential earnings are just that.POTENTIAL.


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## Reptile City (Oct 26, 2005)

*Adult green python price*

Male or Female Adult?
Surely the price would be differant.

Cheers,
Jason Lapins


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## basketcase (Oct 26, 2005)

this topic (or maybe i should i say species?) really is beyond my comprehension in terms of it being informative, interesting or at all relevant to anything moderately substantial.

i really am sick of the hype that surrounds green pythons.


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## munkee (Oct 26, 2005)

If I owned them I would ask a ridiculous amount of money in the hopes someone would take them at that price (or bargain me down 10% :wink: ) You may get someone that can pay 60 to 80k. They may just be for sale for a long time at too high a price. Can't tell with things that are high end, people want them but you have to have someone who can afford them as well.
If someone has that much money spare from any animal I want them to adopt me!!!   
My thoughts


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## MrBredli (Oct 26, 2005)

Not many people would buy a pair of Bredli purely to make money. Sure that's an added bonus and one of the driving factors, but it doesn't compare when we are talking about Green Pythons. The number one factor here is the potential earnings. You need to look at a pair of Green's more like you were purchasing a business. $55000 for a potential return of well over $200000 after only 5 years is inviting. If the risks mentioned above were non existent, they would fetch alot higher. Where else can you more than quadruple your money in less than 5 years? JMO.


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## BROWNS (Oct 26, 2005)

Welll if these are Aussies it makes then rare than the rsp's are now and were a while back.For the people who their ultimate python to own being a green and purists being able to keep rsp' and pure Aussie greens i would think you could be greedy,breed then up big and flood the market but with pure Aussies which many are more interested in.

Are these from the Animals collected by JoBredl Dave?...if not how old are these adults.I thought Bob W's was one of the last pure Aussies on the books which died a while back other than the ones that URS has which are pure Aussie from legally collected Cape York greens many many years ago.


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## NoOne (Oct 26, 2005)

Any reptile is only worth what someone is willing to pay, i think an adult pair of greens could easily go for $40 000, would probably go quite quickly.
No matter what people think is a reasonable price it's up to the seller, what the animals are worth to them, the seller could breed them (as some of the animals in question have) and make more than $40 000.

You also have to wonder whats going on, is someone is selling off pairs of proven breeding pairs of gtps.....what do they know about the market???? Is there going to be a price fall which would make selling them off a financely better option?

PP if your selling them or thinking of buying them to me $40 000 is a pretty good price, you could get more and you could go less, i think it's a good midway point at least whoever is selling them will be able to test the water.


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## BROWNS (Oct 26, 2005)

The only people i can see getting these pythons without som sort of financial gain'not all" that would pay and keep one just for the passion of it would just buy one imo if you buy them to breed you have to outlay big bucks and earning bib bucks is usually the main motive...good luck to those breeding and selling them.I won't be looking at any at the ridicolous prices being asked even in the cheap days for a green python that sits there all day...whatever floats your boat though however i would be happy to fork out good bucks for a pair guaranteed to come out blue :wink:


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 26, 2005)

basketcase
This contributions from people on this topic is very important for some body who I will reveal at a later date. At that time you will understand the relavance and the reasons behind this thread regardless of how pointless this seems at the moment. But we do need as many opinions as possiable.And thanks for the people who are responding.
Cheers Dave


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## MrBredli (Oct 26, 2005)

I think the number of pairs for sale would also affect the price. If it is one pair i think $60000 is reasonable and very realistic. If there are 10 pairs for sale, i think they may have trouble selling them all at $35000-40000 a pair.


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## moosenoose (Oct 26, 2005)

BROWNS said:


> The only people i can see getting these pythons without som sort of financial gain'not all" that would pay and keep one just for the passion of it would just buy one imo if you buy them to breed you have to outlay big bucks and earning bib bucks is usually the main motive...good luck to those breeding and selling them.I won't be looking at any at the ridicolous prices being asked even in the cheap days for a green python that sits there all day...whatever floats your boat though however i would be happy to fork out good bucks for a pair guaranteed to come out blue :wink:



Umm I agree with Browns. This topic is like trying to guess which direction your urine will go if you let it rip in a swirling gale.

For those sorts of prices you may get a sale in 10hrs, perhaps 10 months, maybe 10 yrs. Even if I personally had 40k there is no way in hell I'd spend it on a breeding pair of GTP's. The profiteers who aren't genuine herpologicalists won't take the risk (or the time) in getting the breeding right, and then once they have stock to sell they'll be in the same boat. This isn't like breeding cute fluffy ****sus! lol Good luck to your friend.


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## NoOne (Oct 26, 2005)

I don't see the problem with people making money out of reptiles, the fact is anyone who is willing to risk outlaying big money for reptiles IMO has more than earned the right to make a profit.
If it were me i wouldn't have a problem asking $40 000 for a CB breeding pair of GTPs, if i had put the work into getting them in the first place and having the sleepless nights worry about them and worrying about health problems theft etc. Doesn't make you any less of a herper, i love reptiles and animals as much anyone probably more than most but i have no problem making money out of good quality CB reptiles.

Good on them if they get good money for them, hope they spend it on something they like.


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## womas4me (Oct 26, 2005)

Are there payment options? Hire purchase? Lease?

IMO the only one's who bitch about the price are those who a. cant afford them but wish they could or, b. place no value in reptiles. GTP's have proven over time to hold a signifcant value and even at 5 k each would provide a great return for the time and effort put into getting saleable offspring.

As stated, they are worth what people will pay, and i'd bet my left nut that when offered for sale they will last next to no time, and the buyer will be xtremely happy with their purchase. Period.


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## bikiescum2003 (Oct 27, 2005)

ok first of all i just bought a 3 bedroom house for $75000 i know what id rather spend my money on. but if you have a buyer then i would be asking 55-60 if not higher. and why not if you can get it go for it. ok lets say you have 1 GTP adult for sale for 20000 so a pair would be 40000 but a proven breeding pair thats how i come up with 55-60. (not realy knowing what 1 adult would be worth)


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## Rossagon (Oct 27, 2005)

My thoughts would be that a proven pair would have to sell around the 40K+ mark. If you look at the market for high end animals, it is definately not the end of the world paying these prices. Just take aviarists for example, a pair of high end Macaws here in OZ will fetch around 40k, and there are lists of people that are more than willing to pay that much for these birds. I agree with Womas on this one, and for those who can afford it, good onya. I wish I could!!

Cheers Rossco.


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## olivehydra (Oct 27, 2005)

If I was the seller and was unsure of what price to put on them,(the reason for this thread maybe??) I would be tempted to let the market decide, and recieve expressions of interest over $40,000. There would be alot of timewasters but I think that could also help promote the "event" as the gtp nuts fan the flames so to speak. 
I think I will happily watch from the sidelines thinking of a nice albino olive :wink:


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## AGAMIDAE (Oct 27, 2005)

wouldnt pay more than $10,000 each to be honest, even then I probably wouldn't


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## foxysnake (Oct 27, 2005)

olivehydra said:


> If I was the seller and was unsure of what price to put on them,(the reason for this thread maybe??) I would be tempted to let the market decide, and recieve expressions of interest over $40,000. There would be alot of timewasters but I think that could also help promote the "event" as the gtp nuts fan the flames so to speak.
> quote]
> 
> Have to agree with Olivehydra here. It would be interesting to see what people are prepared to pay for an adult pair of GTPs, but I think $ 40 000 is a good starting point, with obviously the potential to fetch alot more than that.


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## Pike01 (Oct 27, 2005)

If i had that sort of money i would pay it.dont know if they are overpriced or not, just always wanted them since i was a kid.


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## zulu (Oct 27, 2005)

*re adult*

Probably a few breeders that would be willing to part with 40K or more it would be a buisness expenditure for a company i guess when your getting up into those heights.If i was running a biuisness and buying breeders and cages and heaps of food ide have it set up so i could offset tax.Given that reptile ranches etc might pay more than 40K ide imagine.


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## NCHERPS (Oct 27, 2005)

PP, My comments below are a generalisation and not intended to be factual in regards the animals you are talking about, as you haven't really provided enough info to make a clear decision.

If they were genuine cape yorkers I would be suspicious of their age, and unless convinced otherwise would avoid them.
You get people all the time trying to sell off old knackered ex breeders, or animals that have never bred, so I am always suspicious.
That said, if these animals could be proven to be genuine, youngish adults or youngish proven breeders, then I would say $30K + for a pair, this might be dependent on the numbers of hatchie GTP's being sold at the time and for what price, for instance if hatchies were being sold in fair numbers this year for $7500 because they couldn't get $9800, then you have to ask is it worth paying double or more to get adult animals, or would you rather buy 4 hatchies and go through the sometimes hard but interesting process of growing up your hatchies, hoping that you have you at least one of each sex, and in a few years produce your own.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on them.


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## Brodie (Oct 27, 2005)

How many people here would pay 20k for the pair if they were sterile? Not many!

Lets face it, most of you would only ever keep them to make money!


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## basketcase (Oct 27, 2005)

Brodie_W said:


> How many people here would pay 20k for the pair if they were sterile? Not many!
> 
> Lets face it, most of you would only ever keep them to make money!



amen brodie! id pay 20k for a pair of blackheaded death adders b4 i'd pay 5k for a pair of greens


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## foxysnake (Oct 27, 2005)

Well Brodie, explain to me why you would fork out $20 000 - $40 000 and not try and get your money back by breeding? You'd have to have a lot of money to be able to spend $20 000 - $40 000 on a pair of animals to look at and not breed. Any sterile animal is not worth as much as 'able to produce' animals. (Personally I think a pair of GTPs would be worth more than just $20 000).


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## Stevo (Oct 27, 2005)

I agree with Ncherps on 30k price and would be suspicious of age and background if true cape yorks.
Stevo


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## olivehydra (Oct 27, 2005)

Brodie_W said:


> How many people here would pay 20k for the pair if they were sterile? Not many!
> 
> Lets face it, most of you would only ever keep them to make money!



I think this is a very good point. Not sure so someone please correct me but I think in NSW you cannot keep reps to "make" money (normal license). I seem to remember reading something along the lines of "disposing of animals in excess to your needs"?? in regard to selling offspring. I would be very interested to know when this practice is considered commercial?? Anyone?


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## Brodie (Oct 27, 2005)

Because every animal I buy, I buy it to fulfill my passion for reptiles! I have spent over 10k on reptiles this year, not including power or food costs. I have already had a clutch of childreni eggs hatch, and gave them all away. I am only selling a very small amount, so that I can cover my food costs for the next year. The rest I will give away to friends, or keep for myself.

I am not stupid enough to spend 40k on a snake I dont even like! I would spend maybe 500 each on GTP, i think they are fairly ugly - just a green carpet python really!!

Tell me foxy snake,, would you only breed for one season to cover your costs, or would you breed them every year, to make money? Im betting 99.9% of people on this site would breed them as often as they could


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## cronullaben (Oct 27, 2005)

out of everyones comments NCHERPS is the most realistick $5000 and not a cent more and thats only if you realy want 1 that bad.


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## foxysnake (Oct 27, 2005)

I wouldn't breed them every year, I'd breed them like any other snakes. 2 Years on 1 or 2 years rest. But than again I wouldn't be asking almost 10 grand a hatchy and would probably give a few to some friends. I buy animals to breed with I guess, I've plenty of other pets that are 'cuddly'! And I like to learn about the reptiles I keep (or want to keep) and the best ways to keep them stress free, healthy and therefore able to breed.


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## foxysnake (Oct 27, 2005)

cronullaben said:


> out of everyones comments NCHERPS is the most realistick $5000 and not a cent more and thats only if you realy want 1 that bad.



But hatchies go for more cash than that? How is that a realistic price for a pair of adults?


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## Scale_Addiction (Oct 27, 2005)

*re adult*



zulu said:


> Probably a few breeders that would be willing to part with 40K or more it would be a buisness expenditure for a company i guess when your getting up into those heights.If i was running a biuisness and buying breeders and cages and heaps of food ide have it set up so i could offset tax.Given that reptile ranches etc might pay more than 40K ide imagine.



i agree, and when you have ten breeding pairs of BHPs as your base money earner (not to mention all the other stuff) 40k quickly becomes chump change...


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## expansa1 (Oct 27, 2005)

basketcase said:


> this topic (or maybe i should i say species?) really is beyond my comprehension in terms of it being informative, interesting or at all relevant to anything moderately substantial.
> 
> i really am sick of the hype that surrounds green pythons.



So ignore the messages on the subject and don't comment and we won't have to be subject to negative nonsense like this post!


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## Mangles (Oct 27, 2005)

People, especially businesses would spend $30-$40k on a car, which loses value as soon as you drive it out of the showroom. It will never breed, and when it comes time to sell you will probably get bugger all for it. Whereas if a proven pair of GTP breeders, should produce offspring and unless there is a flood of them on the market, will be very valuable and you will be able to recover your initial outlay in the first few seasons. You will still have the original pair, although a few years older and maybe needing a seasons break, which again unless there is a flood of them, would still be worth a nice sum. Of course you could always keep some of the ones you breed as future breeders

On the down side if they do not breed, or one dies then you have probably blown a large part of your $40k. Unlike a car you cannot insure them.

It all comes down to perspective. If you have enough money to be able to stand to lose $40k if things do go wrong, and there are people out there (not me) that can, then $40k would seem reasonable looking at the potential. It is probably more suited to a commerial venture, or maybe a group of people that can form a joint venture to spread the risk, rather than just one individual.


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## Brodie (Oct 27, 2005)

Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?

Cheers,
Brodie


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## Kingii (Oct 27, 2005)

With the right history..

from the right person..

40k would be a steal!!

:wink:


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## olivehydra (Oct 27, 2005)

Brodie_W said:


> Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?
> 
> Cheers,
> Brodie



I think this is more of a case of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of people, not wildlife :wink:


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## Kingii (Oct 27, 2005)

I think this is more of a case of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of people, not wildlife :wink:[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## herptrader (Oct 27, 2005)

The problem is that once youy start talking in big numbers like this the number of people that have the money (to risk) and who are interested is very limited. You could probably count them on one hand. As such the market gets a bit skewed.


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## Linus (Oct 27, 2005)

I don't think there's anything wrong with making money selling snakes. Particularly if its your sole source of income. Not my bag but i say goodluck.

The maths of this seems fairly simple to me. The risk reward makes sense to me up to 50-60k. So basically costs covered in first year...maybe buy them when they are gravid to reduce your risk  

As long as the bottom doesn't fall out of the juvie market - especially with Roy pails and his reported hundred juvies...but i'd guess you have a few years of 5-7k offspring.


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## iceman (Oct 27, 2005)

if i had the money i'd pay anywhere from $35,000 to $40,000 for a pair of GTP's an i'd pay anywhere from $6,000 to $8,000 for a juvie GTP's.


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## zulu (Oct 27, 2005)

olivehydra said:


> Brodie_W said:
> 
> 
> > How many people here would pay 20k for the pair if they were sterile? Not many!
> ...


 Yeh there isnt commercial dealers licences for reptiles being granted but they can issue them when they feelk its the appropriate time to do so,ive got a feeling things may change in that respect next year possibly.Jeff Hardy knows exactly what gos on as he follows things very closely and i think the plan has been to wait till reptiles in collections are breeding and at sufficient numbers to make things work.Then would come Tax :cry: and if you were to sell to a petshop you would have to be registered for GST  Yep if someone is two sell these 5 and 10 and 4o grand herps GST and tax etc would take a big slice and many might want to sell cheaper for cash and write down as G for gift LOL.


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## OuZo (Oct 27, 2005)

> Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?



What's wrong with making money from reptiles? Why is it wrong to want to make a bit of money back from your pets? If you purely go into it just to make money and don't actually care about the animals then I can see that as taking advantage of them but if you love reptiles and keep them because of that, I don't think trying to make money off them is a bad thing.


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## olivehydra (Oct 27, 2005)

OuZo said:


> > Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with making money from reptiles? Why is it wrong to want to make a bit of money back from your pets? If you purely go into it just to make money and don't actually care about the animals then I can see that as taking advantage of them but if you love reptiles and keep them because of that, I don't think trying to make money off them is a bad thing.



Reminds me of when I was last in Vegas and there was this lovely young lady dancing on a podium with her ball pythons in Studio 54, cos she was probably a student I felt obliged to donate some "rodent dollars" to her


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## moosenoose (Oct 27, 2005)

lol Can't I just go and catch some wild ones, breed them so I have "captive bred" hatchies, then release them back where I got them - then proceed to go on my mad Oz conquest to rip off any _guilible_ person wishing to pay 9k for one  That way, I can pay for a herping/holiday combo and every single one of my expenses  It's Perfect!  

_*ties up hiking boots (complete with massive smile)*_

More money than sense


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## Magpie (Oct 27, 2005)

I'd reckon $40k is a good mid ground, but as someone said, it does depend on how many pairs are being offered and how many hatchies are about to hit the market. $30k and I'd buy them if I was fast enough, $50k and I wouldn't even bother making a phone call. $40k and a free pair of WA womas sounds like a a good deal though.


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## Fuscus (Oct 27, 2005)

best to ask "too much" say 60-80k. If they don't sell in a certain amount of time drop price.

repeat until you reach your minimum price or sold. 

PM me if they get below $500


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## NoOne (Oct 27, 2005)

The fact is the seller can charge as much as they want and this case they will probably get it, all they are doing is asking for opinions on price range, not wether people like it or not.
Basketcase, you have always been the same about GTPs, but turn the convo onto womas and you'll back them 100% about how the price is going to stay up and they haven't dropped at all. 
Why do you need to tell everyone how sick of GTPs you are? Congrats do you think anyone cares? I'm sure the pontential buyers don't and i'm sure the seller doesn't either.

It's fair enough if you don't like greens but how can people say they are any more boring than any other python? Isn't that what pythons do? Sit there and do nothing, at least GTPs sit somewhere you can see them and not in a hide  
People saying they are just a green carpet python know full and well thats not the truth, i'd bet the second a green coastal was bred people wouldn't just say....it's just a green carpet.


For every 1 person who doesn't like greens theres probably 20 that do, maybe more.


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## herptrader (Oct 27, 2005)

Feel free to advertise them on the Herp Trader. You will soon find out whether there is interest at a given asking price ;-)

Have never had a GTP ad last much longer than one day!


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## BROWNS (Oct 27, 2005)

What many people seem to miss is that these don't even compare to Roy Pails greens if these are Cpe York Animals and are breeders.Look at rsp's and the ridicolous price asked for them...PURE AUSSIE greens are almost rare as rocking horse crap in Aussie collections and breeding ones well that's the question how old are they and are they still capable of breeding.If they've bred before there's also or should be offspring from them being pure Aussies as well.

I would think the fact they are purely indinigenous unlike most other greens here the Value of them could be 40k plus easy...no matter how many othe greens are bred they won't be pure Aussies like these are mentioned to be.Either ay they should be bred and pure Aussie greens breeding programme.I was unaware there were any left other than Irwins which a few of seem to have dissapeared?


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## tourett (Oct 27, 2005)

On the assumptions PP has asked us to base this on( Young, Breeders, Aussies) $40K is too cheap.
They would have to be worth twice this ($80K).
You should make your money back in the first year.


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 27, 2005)

Thanks for all the participation folks I really appreciate it as this thead is now becoming an important piece of evidence. Sorry for all the secrecy but I will share my reasons for this at a later time.
Cheers Dave


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## instar (Oct 27, 2005)

I hear ya Jonno, how much is a can of green spraypaint? :lol:


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## NoOne (Oct 27, 2005)

instar said:


> I hear ya Jonno, how much is a can of green spraypaint? :lol:



Out of your price range Dan :lol: :lol:


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## Fuscus (Oct 27, 2005)

instar said:


> I hear ya Jonno, how much is a can of green spraypaint? :lol:


Remind me not to buy any GTPs off you inny


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## splitty (Oct 27, 2005)

> Quote: ?
> Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?



Hmmmm eating human waste comes to mind. :roll: 

And just to stay on topic.....................$60,000


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## orsm (Oct 27, 2005)

Saying that "$40k is too cheap for these snakes.." is just dumb unless you have a lazy $40k in your bank account and that you are really serious about buying these snakes for that amount. From what I gather (from reading other posts), not many people here would commit to paying $20k for these snakes (some of these people don't even sound like they can afford to pay $5k for one) so why would these same people then go on and on about "what a steal these snakes will be at $40k"? Unless you have the $$ and are able to back up your price suggestion, please stop speculating..


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## southy (Oct 27, 2005)

think of it this way, roy pails is selling his pairs for just under 20k, most snakes double in sale price from hatchling to adult so you'd have to think around the 40k+ mark?!


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## womas4me (Oct 27, 2005)

Majority of people seem to believe that 40 k would be a price at which the animals would sell, if offered, and probably sell easily with a minimum of fuss.


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## stencorp69 (Oct 27, 2005)

I can believe this thread $40K, $50K, $80K for a pair or is it a single adult GTP - At those prices I would have no guilt in taking one from the wild if I came across one (especially since I can't keep them legally here in WA anyway) 



> Majority of people seem to believe that 40 k would be a price at which the animals would sell, if offered, and probably sell easily with a minimum of fuss.



Until someone acutally has the brass to buy them you can ask whatever you want and people can say they'd buy it for whatever they like. I'd pay $10000 for a pair if we could keep them here in WA. I'm still trying to work out if people are pulling the chain in this thread or if they are actually seriuos.

Sten


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## zulu (Oct 27, 2005)

*re Adult*

Ha Ha hes getting youse guys all juicey !!! :lol: What a grandstander, ooh yeh,do it to me baby!!!! 8) 8)  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## dobermanmick (Oct 27, 2005)

Brodie_W said:


> Ahhh, people making hundreds of thousands of dollars by taking advantage of wildlife....... Is there anything more disgusting?
> 
> Cheers,
> Brodie


Did you feel ripped off when you paid your money out this year ?
or were you paying for what you wanted ? its a simple thing called supply and demand ! 

If I was in a situation that i had a few pairs of bhps and woma eggs in the incubator I dont see the reason not to outlay the money and then sell them to get a return on your investment .

If I had the money I personally would be looking around the $50000 mark 
as it would be possible to get my money back within the next few years 
And lets face it no one with any sense would give them away if they could sell them for that type of money .
I want GTPS but i cant afford them if i could afford them the only way i could justify paying the price would be the resale value .
Cheers Mick


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## dobermanmick (Oct 27, 2005)

*re Adult*



zulu said:


> Ha Ha hes getting youse guys all juicey !!! :lol: What a grandstander, ooh yeh,do it to me baby!!!! 8) 8)  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



lmfao good one zulu :lol:


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## stencorp69 (Oct 27, 2005)

> If I had the money I personally would be looking around the $50000 mark



But you dont so your just blown hot air - hell if I had a million dollars cash lying around I'd by them for $50K too - but guess what I don't and most other people don't have 50K to spend on herps. So in real terms they aint going to be sold for $50K - not in great numbers anyway

You guys who are talking about paying $50K for a GTP must have read the dust off thread the wrong way - that stuff messes with your head not clears it.

Sten


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## BROWNS (Oct 27, 2005)

I think there would be very few adults involbved in this case and making them like chook teeth!


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## tourett (Oct 28, 2005)

stencorp69 said:


> But you dont so your just blown hot air - hell if I had a million dollars cash lying around I'd by them for $50K too - but guess what I don't and most other people don't have 50K to spend on herps. So in real terms they aint going to be sold for $50K - not in great numbers anyway



The question wasn't who has the money. The question was what would they be worth.
You don't fork out a heap of money for a young breeding pair unless you intend to breed them. It is therefore a financial decision. If you know what you doing (and you should if you spend that sort of doe) your investment will pay for itself within a couple of years. There isn't too many investments around that will do that.


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## saxon (Oct 28, 2005)

Everyone seems to be saying IF they had the money, I think thats the most important factor with such a high end market with herps in Australia. who here has acess to the money and if so how much CAN you pay, WORTH is a big word, I personally would pay and if they come up for sale will offer 25k. Is anyone else planning on making an offer if they come up for sale??


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## Retic (Oct 28, 2005)

$20,000 for a full grown pair. Juveniles are worth $5000 so adults are worth $10,000 maximum. There is no way in the world juvenile GTP's are worth almost $10,000.
I can't believe some people are talking about $80,000 !!!
I don't care about the possible potential return on the investment they are not worth that sort of money.


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## Stevo (Oct 28, 2005)

sounding like a` lawsuit


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## Retic (Oct 28, 2005)

In reference to what Steve ?


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## saxon (Oct 28, 2005)

true that Boa $40,000 is dreaming+ potential return is also a potential big fat nothing $000.


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## Retic (Oct 28, 2005)

Yes I think it is dreaming although the sad thing is I think someone would buy them. It's sad because it is making them even less affordable than they were 6 or 7 years ago.


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## stencorp69 (Oct 28, 2005)

It would be cheaper to import them illegally - $40-$80K - go to Iron range and find yourself a house. As for an investment - there are plenty of less risky investments that will "pay for itself" in a few years.

I love this site - I can't believe that a thread can go on with BS for 6 plus pages. Next someone will tell me that it'll cost me $500 for a pair of breeding bobtails......oh that's right I live in WA that is what it costs.

Sten


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## NCHERPS (Oct 28, 2005)

I am sure PP will let us all know in due course what the score is in relation to the animals in question, but reading into what he has said, in relation to using the thread and replies as evidence, it doesn't sound like the animals were ever going to be offered for sale, more just to prove what people would be thinking they are worth. I might have read into it wrong.
Of course, what people think they are worth and what people are prepared to pay and have in there bank accounts is another matter.

Remember people, this species is a little more challenging to keep than other Morelia, especially if you start off with hatchies, alot of people can get them to breed, but ovulation, and incubation of the egg's seem to be problematic for many here in Australia. It would appear that this year alot more have at least got to the egg's stage, which is great.
Maybe these are reasons why they are a class 2 species, which will exclude a few people that may have the dollars, but not the experience.


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## GWEEDS (Oct 28, 2005)

I AGREE WITH PUGSLY 50K TO 70K IS AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE. I COULD USE THAT FOR A HOUSE DEPOSIT ON A BEACH IN SYDNEY!!!!!!


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## olivehydra (Oct 28, 2005)

GWEEDS said:


> I AGREE WITH PUGSLY 50K TO 70K IS AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE. I COULD USE THAT FOR A HOUSE DEPOSIT ON A BEACH IN SYDNEY!!!!!!



I think you may need that and then some, even at 5% :wink:


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## olivehydra (Oct 28, 2005)

I'm surpised people haven't formed groups to pool their resouces. Maybe too many arguments...... to use a thermostat or not???  I got 5 bucks but the snakes stay at my place, anyone?? :wink:


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## BROWNS (Oct 28, 2005)

You would be surprised how many people out there will jump at the chance of Pure breeding Aussie greens and with the cash.People who breed gtp already and womas ,bhp etc it's not that much to fork out if you're already in that game.Some people lay out nearly 40k just for a few juveniles hoping to get a pair,the returns on a breeding pair with someone who knows what they're doing would be easy to make and you could still sell them much much cheaper than the absurd amounts on glorified exotic gtp which by rights seeing aswe can't have anything exotic we shouldn't be able to keep greens especially the non deemed Aussie lines around ...don't get me wrongg i personally think many look awesome but they are exotics....In this case if true Iron Range animals they are worth a fortune and will be snapped up at 40k i bet.

Maybe oneday we'll see greens the price of womas, i could justify that :wink: 

Gone are the days of cheap greens Stencorp and i bet this price also forces many to keep animals such as these much cheaper off licence as has been being done for years.


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## saxon (Oct 28, 2005)

If there are exotics around how can people keep them and breed them???? and sell them? how did this and can this happen?


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## Rossagon (Oct 28, 2005)

I think Stevo and NC are on the ball.


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## zulu (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re Adult*

Sorry Pilbarra i have dropped the price due to time wasting it is now 20K, if this thread is still going tomorrow you will owe ME money!!


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## MrBredli (Oct 28, 2005)

So who's taking legal action against who? I'm guessing someone had some Greens confiscated and they want them back (or cash value  ).


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## stencorp69 (Oct 28, 2005)

> I'm surpised people haven't formed groups to pool their resouces. Maybe too many arguments...... to use a thermostat or not??? I got 5 bucks but the snakes stay at my place, anyone??



Brilliant Idea! I'll send you $10 - I can't keep them in Perth so they'll have to be keep at your house. We'll cross them with a Diamond Python and then we'd have (after futher genetic manipulation) a python worth paying $50K for - A black and green Fluro Tree Python.


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## JunglePython (Oct 28, 2005)

greens are about as common now as womas were when I bought them.
My first pair of womas cost me $4000-00, three years ago.

I think greens will be around $4000-00 next year.

I think $20,000-00 would be realistic. 

In the end I would rather buy hatchies and raise them myself.

Its actually nice to have to wait for somethings.


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## Retic (Oct 28, 2005)

The situation is that the waters are so muddied with GTP's in this country that no-one knows who has what. The majority of those in captivity are 'exotic' somewhere along the line. It would be impossible for the authorities to sort them out so for once they have done the right thing and just lumped them in together.
I think I am right in saying that in Queensland GTP's are kept under their own category of license which is International, can anyone verify this ?

quote="saxon"]If there are exotics around how can people keep them and breed them???? and sell them? how did this and can this happen?[/quote]


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## Scale_Addiction (Oct 28, 2005)

> In the end I would rather buy hatchies and raise them myself.
> 
> Its actually nice to have to wait for somethings



hell yeah! - i know it would be awesome to breed them, but they are sooo cool as hatchies.


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## Kingii (Oct 28, 2005)

C'mon PP

We showed you ours...now you show us yours!!

What's in the box? What's in the box? What's in the box today?
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## dobermanmick (Oct 28, 2005)

stencorp69 said:


> > If I had the money I personally would be looking around the $50000 mark
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well if i had a million laying around i would pay a hell of alot more to have them ! To me they are the pinnacle of reptile keeping 
If you dont like them great just stop blowing your hot air in this thread because you obviously lack the potential to get that sort of money together .

I also stated that if you had a few breeding pairs of blackheads and womas you would easily have that type of money to spend .


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2005)

Thanks again folks for contributing in this discussion. 
The situation with the greens is that I have been asked to appear as a witness to establish the value of adult green pythons on the behalf of Bob Buckley pending court case. I needed some way of showing in a public manner that many reptile keepers do consider $40 000 a pair of adults to be reasonable as this is the amount of compensation that is being asked per pair. Had I just told every body the full story first off, I would have ran the risk of some people who although probably only wanted to help, blindly supporting Bob cause which could have ended up in the forum evidence having no credibility and looking like a set up. The greens in question have already been shipped over seas by Steve Irwin and they will never end up in Bob hands again. It is now just a case of compensation by way of CIVIL litigation.
I apologize sorry if any body didn?t like my tactics or method but I felt I needed to do it this way. 
Cheers Dave


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## Dicco (Oct 28, 2005)

Why the hell did Steve ship tehm over seas?


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## olivehydra (Oct 28, 2005)

CRIKEY :!:


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## Shaggy (Oct 28, 2005)

I can understand the way you did it, Dave.. but how did Steve end up with them and ship them :?


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## pugsly (Oct 28, 2005)

Just because a bunch of people on a forum say they are worth 40 k doesnt in any way mean that firstly: 

It will be admitted as evidence, or,
The judge will even consider this evidence, or
He will make a ruling of anythign close to this amount.

Goodluck to him but from a legal point of veiw the judge really wont care less about what a bunch or people herpers or not are going to say they are worth.

You are better to get Roy Pails, or even THE ROCK to make sworn affidavits and get them to give you an estimate, would be far more beneficial to you.


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## Shaggy (Oct 28, 2005)

very good point Pugsly..


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## Dicco (Oct 28, 2005)

Steve got them in a court case, can't remember the details.


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## Shaggy (Oct 28, 2005)

that's bullpoo... if they were pure aussies and proven breeders.. why send them elsewhere ?


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## pugsly (Oct 28, 2005)

Its not about what they are worth yet. You first need to establish he had no right in taking them and selling them elsewhere. I'm assuming you are pretty confident of this factand hence why you are asking everyone there opinion but our opinion doesnt matter, we ae not quailified people in the area of green trees, and probably never will be unfortunately. 

Here is something to consider 'HERESAY'

EVIDENCE ACT 1906 - SECT 79C 
Documentary evidence, admissibility of 
79C . Documentary evidence, admissibility of 

(1) Subject to subsection (2), in any proceedings where direct oral evidence of a fact or opinion would be admissible, any statement in a document and tending to establish the fact or opinion shall, on production of the document, be admissible as evidence of that fact or opinion if the statement ? 

(a) was made by a qualified person; or 
(b) directly or indirectly reproduces or is derived from one or other or both of the following ? 
(i) information in one or more statements, each made by a qualified person; 
(ii) information from one or more devices designed for, and used for the purpose of, recording, measuring, counting or identifying information, not being information based on a statement made by any person. 
(2) Where a statement referred to in subsection (1) is made by a qualified person or reproduces or is derived from information in a statement made by a qualified person, that person must be called as a witness unless ? 

(a) he is dead; 
(b) he is unfit by reason of his bodily or mental condition to attend or give evidence as a witness; 
(c) he is out of the State and it is not reasonably practicable to secure his attendance; 
(d) all reasonable efforts to identify or find him have been made without success; 
(e) no party to the proceedings who would have the right to cross-examine him requires him to be called as a witness; 
(f) having regard to the time which has elapsed since he made the statement and to all the circumstances, he cannot reasonably be expected to have any recollection of the matters dealt with in the statement; 
(g) having regard to all the circumstances of the case, undue delay, inconvenience or expense would be caused by calling him as a witness; or 
(h) he refuses to give evidence.


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## pugsly (Oct 28, 2005)

Also interesting see EVIDENCE ACT 1906 - SECT 79D and all of 79 actually..

This is WA Legislation also.


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2005)

pugsly
This is actually a law suit against a corrupt lawyer that has been disbarred for malpractise or some thing like it. The court case is civil and involves the establishment of market values of Bobs greens at the time of their dispossession. This is not about taking on Steve Irwin although I do question his motives. I also are aware that this forum on its own will not carry that much weight with out other letters and support from licened breeders dealer etc. This has in part already been done.
Thanks for the legal stuff also pugsly, very interesting.
Cheers Dave


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## zulu (Oct 28, 2005)

*re Adult*

The fact that someone would be legally allowed to export Australian GTPS overseas depresses me.


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## stencorp69 (Oct 28, 2005)

dober*mad*mick wrote:



> Well if i had a million laying around i would pay a hell of alot more to have them ! To me they are the pinnacle of reptile keeping
> If you dont like them great just stop blowing your hot air in this thread because you obviously lack the potential to get that sort of money together .



hahahahahaha ....oh that's a good one - you've definately been trying the dust off, all rational thinking has been blown from your system. How do you make the jump from the comments I made, too me never having potential to earn a million dollars. Hahaha - my comments weren't an invitation for you to use dust off, but to stop using it.

Hahahahaha - Dober*mad* if you pay that much for them you'll never get to have a million dollars lying around. The key to business is buy low sell hi, hopefully that little tip will help you achieve the pinnacle of your herp dreams 

Sten


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## Shaggy (Oct 28, 2005)

*re Adult*



zulu said:


> The fact that someone would be legally allowed to export Australian GTPS overseas depresses me.



The fact that they would do it is even more depressing.


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## BROWNS (Oct 28, 2005)

Bob actually won his court case against Irwin as far as i was aware but Irwin wouldn't give the greens back ,a heap of them too....he could do nothing about it and now look wherre some of the first Greens bred in Oz are ...OVER BLOODY SEAS just like the rsp's ...it stinks!!!


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## Splitmore (Oct 28, 2005)

> just like the rsp's ...it stinks!!!


What problem do you have with the rough scales getting sent overseas? They have been made available here as well to anyone interested


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## BROWNS (Oct 28, 2005)

Yes i know they've been made available but look at the prices they were asking and did they not get sent overseas before being offered to the public?I can see the good side as in for an alternative breeding programme but now with the how ever many that have been bred here i think they should have gone to other Aussie zoos not Overseas jmo

It's just that certain people seem to be able to get away with things most others can't.


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## MrBredli (Oct 28, 2005)

So how did Bob come to lose his Greens in the first place?


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## orsm (Oct 28, 2005)

I don't know whether to laugh out loud or cry myself to sleep. Which judge in his/her right mind is going to take this forum as the gospel for reptile pricing? I am sorry but this whole thing about the "potential" value of GTPs is just BS. The simple fact is most of the people in this forum who think that 40k++ for GTP pairs is "a bargain" don't even have the $$ to snap up this so-called "bargain". It's really no point talking about "potential" value unless you are serious about outlaying a chunk of money (annual salary for some people) for this reptile. So let's get real here, who in this forum would really shell out $40k (or even $80k) for a pair of snakes tomorrow (and actually have the $$ to do it)? I know I wouldn't.. 

Be happy...


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## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2005)

Mrbredli
Bob had his greens siezed as suspected tainted property by Detective John Oshea under the crimes confiscation act.


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## BROWNS (Oct 28, 2005)

Think of it this way orsm,there are people who frequent these sites and others such as Roy Pails and i'm sur he'll get some sales from potential buyers that visit this forum but i doubt they're going to tell you they're spending near 40-50k on a group of snakes which they'll need if they're hoping to get a pair.Compare that to one pair of Breeding aniamls if they were actually available i reckon you'd be onto something...i wouldn't do it especially with greens but that's me.

Also i agree i can't see this as being much evidence but it wouldn't be hard to work out a price from a few respected breeders points of view and letters as stated.I know Irwin asked Bob's advice on breeding them when they were his.Also people do go in syndicates for this kind of thing b etween a few people it wouldn't take much at all even at the outrageous price tag on Roy Pails many will sell and even if he drops the price are they even deemed Aussies the ones Pails has just out of curiosity anyone?

Then again not much point in talking about they're price now is there as they'll never be available or bred here again unless moose gets his new true Iron Range line going


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## stencorp69 (Oct 29, 2005)

> I don't know whether to laugh out loud or cry myself to sleep. Which judge in his/her right mind is going to take this forum as the gospel for reptile pricing? I am sorry but this whole thing about the "potential" value of GTPs is just BS. The simple fact is most of the people in this forum who think that 40k++ for GTP pairs is "a bargain" don't even have the $$ to snap up this so-called "bargain". It's really no point talking about "potential" value unless you are serious about outlaying a chunk of money (annual salary for some people) for this reptile. So let's get real here, who in this forum would really shell out $40k (or even $80k) for a pair of snakes tomorrow (and actually have the $$ to do it)? I know I wouldn't..



Precisely


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## olivehydra (Oct 29, 2005)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Mrbredli
> Bob had his greens siezed as suspected tainted property by Detective John Oshea under the crimes confiscation act.



No relation to Mark I hope :wink:


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## The Rock (Oct 29, 2005)

Well I remember a number of years back when I managed a reptile display and QPWS told me that the clutch of gtps that irwin had bred,( the only clutch to my knowledge hes ever bred), all died. Maybe thats why he got rid of them?. Could be he didnt want to embarrass himself again. Or because Bob had won the court case, he got rid of them before he had to give them back. Either way very dodgy indeed.
And before anyone says anything I have said this to Irwins face, I told him how incompetent I think he is and the way he pretty much makes money out of pulling the wool over the publics eye.
He is in my opinion the biggest embarrasment to hepetology not just in oz but the world. If your reading this irwin, Im still waiting,!!!! bring it on, I still have lots of ammunition on your past to share.


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## Kingii (Oct 29, 2005)

Amen :shock:


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## zulu (Oct 29, 2005)

*re Adult*



Shaggy said:


> zulu said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that someone would be legally allowed to export Australian GTPS overseas depresses me.
> ...


 Yeh shaggers ime truly amazed,if anyone had seen bob whitheys confiscated animals they had the most amazing green coloration,given that its not surprising they are wanted overseas. :roll:


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## zulu (Oct 29, 2005)

*re Adult*

Go Rocky!


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## Jason (Oct 29, 2005)

well interesting topic, just curious how gtp can be tested to see if they are 100% ozy, is it a blood test to compare the dna? either way would people buy gtp that they new weren't ozy's if they were only 4-5k when the ozy's are 9-10k?


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## foxysnake (Oct 29, 2005)

i think it has been said before but there isn't yet a way to accurately test dna to find out if the snakes are indeed from Australia.


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## swampie (Oct 29, 2005)

Onya Rock, good to see somone has the balls to say it.


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