# Another US Creation.....



## BROWNS (Nov 27, 2004)

Many of you may have seen this before but for those who haven't here's the Carprondo"chondro x jungle"....Personally i think it's a stunning looking snake but i think it's taking crossbreeding way too far!!!


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## Fuscus (Nov 27, 2004)

You could pass that off as an unusual jungle, which is not a good thing


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## BROWNS (Nov 27, 2004)

I think if you get a better view of the head you'd see it couldn't be a jungle.Here's a couple of pics as a hatchy...


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## Rina (Nov 27, 2004)

Must admit that I am so dead against the principles behind this particular cross so I am in agreement with you Browns but I must say I find the first picture of the hatchy pretty neat.
Regards Rina


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## serpenttongue (Dec 1, 2004)

interesting to know if adopts the habits of Chondros resting position or caudal luring


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## BROWNS (Dec 1, 2004)

Just about evry jungle i've seen has the same perching or resting position as chondros and i have also seen some of my jungles luring.I think jungles and the rough scale python are very similar to chondros in that they are highly arboreal and would feed on mainly birds and small rodents.Don't know much about rough scales but they have very large teeth like chondros and all 3 species are prone to being quite aggressive.....


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## angelrose (Dec 1, 2004)

Wow, that's gorgeous, but so wrong... it's sad, something so naturally inconsistant can be so beautiful.


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## Greebo (Dec 1, 2004)

I have a little Proserpine that likes to perch like a GTP. Every time I see her doing it I can't help but think " Yeah, I wish!"


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## Mr.K (Dec 1, 2004)

Yeah, the hatchie pic is really nice but the others dont do much for me


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2004)

How many have agressive, and how many have quiet jungles.


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## soulweaver (Dec 1, 2004)

looks better as a baby then adult.....but thats a given...

hope aust doesn't go down this path.....


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## instar (Dec 1, 2004)

Theres something about the GTP head shape that stands out and can be recognised anywhere. I like the color but i think a pure GTP looks better.


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## foxdingo (Dec 2, 2004)

I think It looks great, is there any thing bad that can happen to a snake when it is cross-bred?


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## BROWNS (Dec 2, 2004)

I actually prefer the snake as an adult than the juvie as it has great colour contrast....i hope we don't start crossing any morelia with chondros in Australia either, although i am thinking that someone will eventually be tempted to cross analbino carpet with a chondro,and to be truthful i would be very interested in seeing what the albino animals from the second generation look like....


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## diamond_python (Dec 2, 2004)

> Yeah, the hatchie pic is really nice but the others dont do much for me




I think the same as Mr.K.. Prefer a pure jungle anyday... JMO


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## Hickson (Dec 2, 2004)

Another spectacular looking snake, and a cute hatchy. Most likely infertile tho' so no good for breeding.



Browns said:


> i am thinking that someone will eventually be tempted to cross analbino carpet with a chondro,and to be truthful i would be very interested in seeing what the albino animals from the second generation look like....



They might not be too different - there's not a lot of black on a Chondro.



Hix


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## ether (Dec 2, 2004)

Doesent do much for me, then again none of the crazy US creations do.


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## Jarvis78 (Dec 3, 2004)

I would just like to ask what the problem with cross breeding of snakes to get different looks? Is there a genetics or health problem?
If there isn't, then why does it seem that every time someone posts a pic of a cross breed, alot of people say it looks good but are morally opposed to it. 
People have been cross breeding animals for a few thousand years now. why not with snakes. 
I was at a VHS meeting a while ago when Dr Simon Stone spoke and some of the pictures of the Ball and Green tree pythons were really good looking, and they all seemed to be very healthy (as much as you can tell from a pic)

my 2 cents


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## Cerion (Dec 3, 2004)

are there any genetic complications from doing such an excercise? Organs, tumors etc? I still beleive you should keep them pure. But hey someone will give it a go for a quick buck., *sigh*


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## Jarvis78 (Dec 3, 2004)

some breeders power feed their 'pure' snakes to bring them up to breeding size faster which (apparently) shortens the life span of the animal. Isn't that worse than crossing 2 healthy snakes and brining up and selling healthy crossbreeds.


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## kevyn (Dec 3, 2004)

There's been alot of to-do about these guys on the some of the U.S. forums as of late. I'm not against crosses persay, but I'm not a big fan of these ones. They are selling for quite abit of money over there, so I have no doubt that they're be more to come.


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 3, 2004)

> someone will eventually be tempted to cross analbino carpet with a chondro,


I think it's a given, these albino carpets are the start of quite a few crosses in Australia I reckon, for better or for worse, it's going to happen


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## NCHERPS (Dec 3, 2004)

From Memory, their are albino GTP's in the US, and they look nice, but not as good as a nice blue GTP or High yellow.
Personally, I don't think that many would be interested in a albino carpet cross GTP here in Australia, I certainly wouldn't pay Pure GTP or Albino carpet prices for one, so I don't think their would be a incentive for people to cross them.

Neil


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 3, 2004)

But what about albino bredli? Diamonds, scrubbies? I think they're as likely as GTP crosses, probably easier to pull off too... As albino carpet prices drop I'm pretty sure they'll be trying new things, and I think that there's a market for almost anything, especially with the hobby growing in Aus...


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## NCHERPS (Dec 3, 2004)

Sam,
I agree with you that the Albino carpets are the start of the future breeding of many crosses and new morph's, It's a fact to be sure of, but personally I hope they only breed carpet to carpet and leave the other Morelia's out of their equation's.

All that said, I do like alot of the morph's and crosses including the Carpondro, but just wouldn't consider paying big money for them like I would a pure albino.

Neil


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## kevyn (Dec 3, 2004)

Not sure if it is possible to to produce an albino carpondro. The gentics most likely are not transferable from species to species. There's alot of effort right now going on in the U.S. to either prove or hopfully disprove, this theroy with the Bateaters (Retic/Burm crosses). It is highly unlikely that the dream of a albino Bateater will come true, which is too bad really. It would be cool to see one. 

I do agree though, an albino Carpet is the way of the future for you guys, and will eventually find it's way here.


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## BROWNS (Dec 3, 2004)

Well say someone does cross an albino carpet with a chondro which don't have any black"although i have seen a couple with black spots" it is the patterning that would interest me in the outcome and if it has a pattern expressing yellow or all white and no pattern like the olives?

We all have different opinions and what is beautiful to one person may well be ugly to another,that's personal choice and what it's all about!!!!


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## BROWNS (Dec 3, 2004)

I would say crossing an albino carpet with a chondro to eventually breed albino carpndros is well and truly possible.They are morelia and more or less a green carpet python,same as bredli being crossed wit5h coastals which has been done,and i doubt they are mules"infertile"

Pic of an albino chondro..........


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## Jarvis78 (Dec 3, 2004)

Browns
If that is a real snake I think that is very cool.

I love all the different color variations coming out in the US. I hope it all comes over here!


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## wallyold (Dec 3, 2004)

Sorry i'm only new to the snake world but the snake looks nice but i think it is wrong


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## teza (Dec 4, 2004)

Here is another pic of an albino GTP with 2 common morphs ...


Enjoy,


TeZa ...


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## Dicco (Dec 7, 2004)

Jarvis78 said:


> I love all the different color variations coming out in the US. I hope it all comes over here!



Dude, I wish we'd never have to see any of that crap come over here but with the albino's now in the hobby I might as well be dreaming! Snake are NOT toys and neither are they something pretty for us to look at!, we have NO right what so ever to be scewing around with their genetics! Sure the occational intergrade/hybrid occurs in the wild but some of the sh*t like you see oversea's (and yes even here)is just impossible and wrong! I'm not against selective breeding but some who breeds one of those mongrels should lose thier right to keep our native wildlife.


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## swampie (Dec 7, 2004)

I think some of the crossbreads look great and although it 's looked down upon by many people i think it's the future of Aus herp industry.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2004)

I agree with dicco. How do albino's occur?


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## Dicco (Dec 7, 2004)

An albino is an animal born with out any pigment, I'm not sure exactly how this happens but it's probobly a fault that occurs during developement. JMO.


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## hugsta (Dec 7, 2004)

I think it looks awesome whether it is right or wrong is just another one of those unanswered debaits that all boils down to a personal opinion.

People get on their high horse and go on about how wrong this is, and they wouldn't do it in the wild etc etc etc. But how many people have owned crossed bred dogs, horses, cows, cats, sheep, goats etc. etc. If it is wrong to do it with snakes, then surely it is wrong to do with all animals. 

I must admit if somebody approached me with that snake and offered if to me for the right price there is no way I would knock it back. I love to see different sorts of animals but I also am one for having pure bred animals. 

I only hope that with all this type of breeding going on over there and surely here as well that they still keep pure blood lines. Just MO


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 7, 2004)

> An albino is an animal born with out any pigment, I'm not sure exactly how this happens but it's probobly a fault that occurs during developement. JMO.


It's almost always (always, as far as I've heard, let me know if not) genetic. It's rare because BOTH parents need to posess the gene, and then pass the correct gene on for the young to show the trait. It's naturally occuring, just more common in captivity because we can specifically breed together those animals that we know posess that gene.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2004)

thats cool. so who wants to give me a pair of albino somethings


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 7, 2004)

When I get too many to care for mate, I will! I'll look after all the eggs though, k?


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2004)

sure thing mate :evil: :mrgreen:


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## ether (Dec 7, 2004)

It's just so un natural, there are no herps like that in the wild and i dont know about other people but i want to keep my collection as natural as possible. Breeding coastals with coastal and diamonds with diamonds etc. 

Sure they may look 'cool' but do we really need a reptile to become somewhat of a gimick or fashion accsesory. Do girls really need a pink and white Boa to match their room...i dont think so. I sincerely hope our hobby and pasison doesent become overrun with fake and un-realistic reptiles. JMO

Regards Alex


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## BROWNS (Dec 7, 2004)

Sorry to spoil your post ether but you'll find that nearly every albino originated from the wild.The first albino Darwin did,same with the Olives,as well as the burmese ,retics,balls etc in the US..There was an albino maccy caught not too long ago as well as an albino red belly and albino bluey,beardies,adders,the list goes on...they all originated from the wild.


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 7, 2004)

Didn't know about the maccy or the redbelly mate, what's going on with them?

Also, perhaps alex was referring to the 'carpondro'? Not sure though


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## BROWNS (Dec 7, 2004)

All i know is the albino macy was caught in Townsville,sorry no pics.

Here's the pic of the red belly tho...has been in a few threads now.


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## Ricko (Dec 7, 2004)

that albino red belly is awesome. just awesome. and that albino mac apparently is never gonna be bred i dont think.


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## teza (Dec 7, 2004)

*Another US Creation.......*

Here is a pic taken in the late 70's of an albino Blackhead found on a cattle station in Central QLD, local to Rockhampton. The lady holding them is a friend of mines wife who was a teacher at a school and one of her students father found it .....


Please Enjoy ....


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## Dicco (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation.......*

Browns, didn't you say there was an albino blacked in your class when you were at school/uni?


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## hey_im_sam (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation.......*

wow! wouldn't that be something to see.... Thanks for that tez


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## Ricko (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation.......*

that looks like a full albino compared to other pics i have seen of ones with like part white heads and like bigguy's female. stunning


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## teza (Dec 7, 2004)

*Another US Creation......*

And another pic .... I appologise for the bad quality pics ....


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## Ricko (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation......*

got any more teza? they are great


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## teza (Dec 7, 2004)

*Another US Creation......*

And this ........


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## Ricko (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation......*

was the other bhp there for comparison?? what happened to this snake if you dont mind me asking?


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## teza (Dec 7, 2004)

Ricko, It was being looked after at a local University during Xmas holidays and upon returning once they finished to collect it, they where informed that it had died ...

Hmmm, bit suss if you ask me !!!!!


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## swampie (Dec 7, 2004)

If you could breed those you would be a rich man.


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## Mr.K (Dec 7, 2004)

*RE: Another US Creation......*

wow, ive never heard of an albi blackhead before.


> what happened to this snake if you dont mind me asking?


Good question Ricko?
that would be a taxidermy job for sure if it was mine :wink:


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## swampie (Dec 7, 2004)

Apparently the albino mac is in nat parks office at Townsville.


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## ether (Dec 7, 2004)

I am sweet with albinos, at least they are natural and occour naturally but crossing carpets and GTP's is crazy...


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## BROWNS (Dec 8, 2004)

> Here is a pic taken in the late 70's of an albino Blackhead found on a cattle station in Central QLD, local to Rockhampton. The lady holding them is a friend of mines wife who was a teacher at a school and one of her students father found it .....


You gotta be kidding me.What an absolute spin out.Guess where i went to boarding school .....Yepoon which is where i guarantee i sat next to that very animal for 2 years in biology,probably the other one as well.I have told a few people about that but not too many ever truly believed me..there's the proof!!!

Teza i will have to have a chat with you,when i went to that school it was in yrs 84/85 so that has to be the one and only same animal!!!!

Unreal,thanks so much for posting that.....legend!!!


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2004)

Yeah who wants one?!?!?! MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. albino's are sweet as. check this albino redbelly.


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## BROWNS (Dec 8, 2004)

I posted that pic a couple of pages ago on this thread...get with it man :wink:


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## BROWNS (Dec 8, 2004)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=7398 Here's the link where i mentioned the albino bhp.....


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## teza (Dec 8, 2004)

*Another US Creation......*

Fair dinkum Browns, it's a small world mate ... I was actually unsure of the year the photo's where taken, just guessed by their quality that it was the 70's lol... I am good friends with these people and I actually work with the ladies husband, thats how I came to have copies of these pictures.


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## Retic (Dec 29, 2004)

I must admit I have no problem with cross breeds etc if they are sold as such. Some of them are magnificent animals. The Jungle/GTP hatchling is beautiful as are the adults. It will happen more here and my opinion is the offspring will sell like hotcakes, if you don't like them don't buy them is my advice.


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## charlotte (Dec 29, 2004)

I went to a reptile show here in Tucson this summer and they had some of those jungle chondro cross breeds for sale there. I don't remember the price on them but there are photos of them at www.tucsonreptileshow.com


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## Switch (Dec 29, 2004)

Beautiful snake, but I have to say i totally disagree with what they are doing, cant they just be happy to have a green tree python, i know plenty of us would be happy if thats all we ever had, no pleasing some i guess.


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## phantom (Dec 29, 2004)

with the cross breeding ,do the the snake's mate them self or is it artificial insaminated?


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## Switch (Dec 29, 2004)

good question, you would have to think it was artificial hey


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## BROWNS (Dec 29, 2004)

It's happened before with carpets and scrubbys so why not a carpet with a Chondro?You would wonder if the offspring were fertile or not though....


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## BROWNS (Dec 29, 2004)

here's a different one...


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## Switch (Dec 30, 2004)

Browns, please excuse my lack of knowledge, are some cross breeds young infertile are they? What is the cross breed in your picture?


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## bOJOjojo (Jul 29, 2006)

Yeah, the americans have done some really weird things with their pythons...burmese x retic, jungle carpet x woma... and I don't see the point in it. I agree, I don'wt want Australia to go down that path. Could spoil whole groups of captive species.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 29, 2006)

When people start selling off cross-breeds as purebreeds, either through ignorance or financial gains the problems will start. Lets hope we don't go down that track.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jul 29, 2006)

Oh no, not this again...? And so soon after the last debate! Where's Boa? Chondros and rough scaled pythons are primarily rodent feeders as adults in the wild, according to stomach contents analysis, very few bird remains found at all. The long teeth are designed to grab rats and hang on to them. Weigel has told me that Chondros &amp; RSPs are extremely close genetically, moreso than anything else.

Stamp the hybrids out though!

Jamie.


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## bOJOjojo (Jul 30, 2006)

Maybe some mate, if they are closely related enough, but I'm sure that many of the crazy crosses are artificially inseminated. And the carpet/scrubby mix is probably possible because they are from the same genus, but I still don't believe in cross-breeding...we might lose the originals forever.


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