# Small Dragon Species



## Revell13 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm looking to add to my mixed species enclosure by adding some more of the smaller varieties of dragons, such as the Mountain Heath Dragon and Painted Dragon, just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the topic, they would be going in with JUVIE Eastern Water Dragons and some jacky dragons in a 4x2x2

Also if anyone has suggestions for other small dragon species that I might be interested in, all comments and suggestions welcome!

The enclosure is this:





Basking 34-36
Cool End 18-22
Shallow (4-5 inch) water area and running water
Many more branches and hides since this picture was taken


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## GeckPhotographer (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey Revell, Mountain Heath Dragons will go fine with Jackies and Water Dragons OF THE SAME SIZE. (Which is heavily age dependant as the other two species grow much larger.) As long as you are prepared to separate them when the Jacky Dragons or Water Dragons outgrow the Mountain Heaths this should be fine.

Painted Dragons generally require more heat and drier cage conditions than the other 3 coastal species and will probably need to be kept separately and in different conditions.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree with *GeckPhotographer*. Also any of the _Amphibolourus_ genus, like Burns' Dragon and the Nobbi Dragon. The likes of _C. decresii_, _C. fionni_, _C. vadnappa _would do OK. _Diporiphora australis _and the Western Bearded Dragon (_Pogona minor_) also.

Blue

*Edit:* Not _A. longirostris _as they need more room and _A. temporalis_ might need more heat.


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## Rocket (Sep 5, 2012)

Here we go again with amateur keepers wanting to mix species, MANY that don't even share similar niches or distributions.

How I pity future hobbyists if this is the direction this hobby is steering.


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## jack (Sep 5, 2012)

Rocket said:


> Here we go again with amateur keepers wanting to mix species that don't even share similar niches or distributions.
> 
> How I pity future hobbyists if this is the direction this hobby is steering.



thats a bit rich... mountain dragons and jackies exist in the same place, and they live quite comfortably together from what i remember when i did so in the late 80's and early 90's


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## GeckPhotographer (Sep 5, 2012)

> thats a bit rich... mountain dragons and jackies exist in the same place, and they live quite comfortably together from what i remember when i did so in the late 80's and early 90's



I've seen a wild Jacky eat a wild Heath, Jacky was a big male, Heath probably not quite full grown (but can't be sure with the whole it being eaten).


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## Tassie97 (Sep 5, 2012)

i like mountain dragons


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## richoman_3 (Sep 5, 2012)

i have to on rockets side for a bit of this,
im all for mixing species together, but if they are found in exact opposite habitats or dont arnt even found in the same locations than i suggest you dont mix them
i suggest you leave your jackys and ewd's together while the ewd is smaller and maybe make smaller tanks to house smaller dragons. All you need is a 3 foot long tank by a foot wide and about 2 feet high. Can stack them on eachother and have trios of smaller dragons in them - i have netteds in one and getting painteds soon in the one above


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 6, 2012)

I have a problem with use of the term “amateur” keeper. Are you implying you are a professional and he is not? Or just using the term to give false weight to your statements? Care to explain?

It is something that is very much discouraged with a wide number of snakes due to their propensity to eat other snakes of even similar size. In fact, with some it is risking it keeping more than one of the same species in an enclosure. 

Most lizards are different in this respect. Rob Bredl used to have a pit in his reptile park with half a dozen or so different dragon species happily co-existing. As far know, Rob would have been classified as a professional keeper because he did it for a living.

As for exact opposite habitats and very different locations... when people are giving advice on housing, I have seen very little of the latter being taken into account and virtually zero of the former. I don’t think I have ever heard it mentioned for a Gould’s Monitor (Sand Goanna), which is found Australia wide. Similarly with Shinglebacks, Eastern Bluetongues, Coastal Carpets, even EWDs. Same story with Jackies, Nobbi Dragons, Nephrurus laevis laevi and the list goes on. Wide-ranging species found either the length or breadth, or both, of Australia. What is required is an understanding of how to meet the animal’s needs in captivity, not the ability to exactly recreate the habitat. It is much more about providing a suitable micro-habitat.

*jack*, you are dead right about the two species co-existing. Mountain dragons tend to hang on rock surrounded by dense bushes and once warmed up will forage on more open ground. Jackies tended to be found in or on the tops of bushes and fallen branches. The Mountain dragons were in higher numbers where they did occur. Any sudden movements and they would disappear into the base of the shrubs.

Blue


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## bk201 (Sep 6, 2012)

I kept those exact same jackys with mountain dragons for the last 7 or 8 months without any problems.
same as with all reptiles if its small enough to be food obviously don't keep them together.
On the note of mixed species set ups i have done fine with jackys and mountain dragons (not adult jackys though some of my mountain dragons are large enough to co-exist with adults) yet my new adult female shingleback cant mix with my yearling shingle backs as the yearling attacks her...go figure...

On the note of mixed species...i have seen many reptile collections of keepers of reptiles for 20+ years who have had mixed set ups geckos and scaly foots, dragons and skinks, etc etc so amateur has nothing to do with it.


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## Revell13 (Sep 6, 2012)

Honestly guys I cant thank you enough for all your input. 

Im going to be getting some adult Mountain Dragons soon (yay) and I'll be trialling them in the large enclosure, obviously as they live in my room and I have almost no life I will be able to keep a very close eye on them, if any aggression occurs, they will be separated (dur).

So far in my own (limited) experience, Eastern Water Skinks co-exist well with juvie eastern water dragons, and with my new Jacky dragons. Absolutely everyone in the enclosure is looking well fed and comfortable in their environment.

In another enclosure I have 2 Thick Tailed Geckos co-existing with an adult marbled gecko, again with no issues. Its always funny when I cant find my marbled in his arboreal hide and I find him instead in one of the 3 ground hides, chilling out on top of the male Thick Tailed.

Also at the moment considering trialling narrow banded sand swimmers with my centralian bearded, but that won't occur for around 12 months yet so no need to stress if I have made a gross mistake in this case, as I am sure you will let me know.

On a final note, thank you all again for your positive, helpful and informative comments.


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## GeckPhotographer (Sep 6, 2012)

> Also at the moment considering trialling narrow banded sand swimmers with my centralian bearded, but that won't occur for around 12 months yet so no need to stress if I have made a gross mistake in this case, as I am sure you will let me know.



I wouldn't do that. 

But with an appropriately sized cage set up just right you might be able to get them to live with thicktails, I can't see agression from either of those species being problems, but beardies will eat ANYTHING they can fit in their mouth.  

What substrate are your thickies on? I can think of better matches for Sandswimmers but not ones you have.


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## bk201 (Sep 6, 2012)

Agree bearded dragons should be kept alone or with the same species.


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## Revell13 (Sep 6, 2012)

Yeah Bdee will have to stay as a loner on his own then, Thick-Tails are on a coir-peat/vivarian sand (80/20) mix and are doing really well at the moment, female is just about to lay her first clutch of the season so cant wait for that 

Ive made a tricked out 2 piece arboreal hide for the marbled, its a thick, 15cm long piece of gumtree branch that I cut a straight side on about 1/5th of the depth of the branch, then used a thick drillbit to hollow it out in the middle, from there I cut the piece in half so both halves have a part of the flat side on it, bored a small hole top to bottom which I then stuck a piece of plastic in to act as a pin, then used outdoor double sided tape to attach the bottom half to the glass. The only way to access it is via glass, so if the marbled wants a place to hide away from everyone, he can go there, and he uses it most days, I'll post pics in my DIY thread.


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## eipper (Sep 6, 2012)

A few suggestions....

Where possible do not communally house without extensive thought. Yes in the wild they might be sympatric with habitats or even microhabitats but there is a huge difference....the regulation of a person governing the extent of the food and the enclosure itself. 

I personally have some communal enclosures still running, I plans for a couple more but I have also had some blunders and as a result a Herp has been injured (nothing major). 

Personally, I having kept all of the species you have spoken about in the thread would not keep those species together in any of the aforementioned combinations for any length of time. 

Cheers
Scott


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## Revell13 (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks man, I plan to remove the Water Dragons as soon as they outgrow the Jacky's, they are currently a little smaller and getting on fine though


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 6, 2012)

*Rocket*,

I do react to the term “amateur” applied to others. It is usually use to belittle another, which I consider is seldom appropriate on the forum. We all have more to learn. Admitting that in asking questions is not a fault. I felt you were being unnecessarily harsh on somebody who was going about it the right way – giving ALL the details plus a picture and dimensions of the enclosure. If only others would do likewise when asking similar questions. I don’t care what this particular person has done in the past. They have displayed a responsible approach this time around and deserve to be treated accordingly.

If you feel I have been rude to you or undeservedly critical, I apologise with out reservation because that was not my goal. My goal is as stated above.

You are entitled to your opinion on my posts but not on my personality. If others feel the same about my posts, it is appropriate that they express that opinion for themselves. I have made it clear that am not here to make friends. I only wish to help out in those areas that I have a good understanding of. I also accept that sometimes I get it wrong. I would agree that many may not like my style of answering questions – as I like to explain WHY in addition to the WHAT to do. It takes a lot more time effort and space to do that. So long as the asker is happy with it, I shall continue to be like that. I can only suggest to those individuals who find it irksome to read such posts, skip reading what I write. 

I see no useful purpose in making further comment. I do my best not to hold grudges and were you to post a question tomorrow that I felt I could assist with, I would do my best to help.

No hard feelings,
Blue

EDIT: I posted this and Rocket's post was deleted and he was suspended shortly thereafter. I shall leave it for him to anyway.


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## jack (Sep 7, 2012)

in regards to mixing species, the shoalhaven zoo has a diamond in a landscaped sydney sandstonesque enclosure, along with a pair of death adders...


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## disintegratus (Sep 7, 2012)

I have no idea about mixing species, wouldn't be able to help one bit. What I would like to know is WHERE THE HELL EVERYONE IS GETTING JACKY DRAGONS FROM?!?!?! I've been searching for them for ages, and I can't find any that are not unreasonably far away from me


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## Rob (Sep 7, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I would agree that many may not like my style of answering questions



I for one am not part of this "many" that you mentioned.

Keep doing what you do, Blue - There are many of us who appreciate it.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 7, 2012)

Thanks Rob_N_Son. The "many" was a downgrading of Rocket's "everyone". I am not sure what Rocket's problem but I am sure it's not me...

Scott,
I kept small Jackies and Mountain Dragons together as a kid. I also had several Tawny Dragons and they did quite well with Jackies. The other two rock dragon species are very similar to the Tawny, which is why I included them. Nobbi and Burns used to be included as Jackies, so again very similar. The only one I have no personal experience of is the Tommy Roundhead.

You are quite right in that they should not be mixed willy nilly. The list was merely possible. There are obviuos limitations on numbers accoding to the size of the enclosure. If you add an arbreal species then more branches would be needed. If adding Mountain Dragons, two or more leafy clumps for them to retreat into. It is also critical to watch as they are settling in and to check your animals to ensure there are no signs of inter-species aggression. At the same time you need to be looking for any behavioural changes that would indicate stress. I had intended to make these points earlier but I got side-tracked.


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## jordo (Sep 7, 2012)

I haven't kept either of the dragons but I'd also advise against keeping them together, dragons are territorial. As I said no experience what so ever from me but I suspect it would just be a matter of time - and definitely not sustainable once the mountain dragons growth plateaus out and the jacky keeps getting bigger.



GeckPhotographer said:


> But with an appropriately sized cage set up just right you might be able to get them to live with thicktails, I can't see agression from either of those species being problems, but beardies will eat ANYTHING they can fit in their mouth.
> 
> What substrate are your thickies on? I can think of better matches for Sandswimmers but not ones you have.



I wouldn't suggest keeping sandswimmers with anything. They can go on fine for a while and then suddenly the hormones get going and it's all over. A soft skinned gecko wouldn't stand a chance, sandswimmers are brutal if they put their minds to it. Again, I'm sure there are people that have done it with no problems but as far as aggressive territorial reptiles go sandswimmers are up there at the top in my books.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 7, 2012)

*Jordo*,
That is a wise way to look at it if you do not know. What you find with some of the smaller dragons, especially the rock dragons, is that they live in a group that has constant visual contact between individuals. Although they will each claim their particular perch in nature, usually well spaced, they do tolerate being brought much closer together in captivity. Part of the key to this is to ensure they each get fed enough. The other key is to provide visual barrier they can sit behind if they want to. Bearded Dragons are probably the worst for being territorial. I will also say that looking after small dragons is more challenging that most reptiles. 

In this instance, I imagine the OP would be looking at adding a pair of an additional species or two, at the most. He will need to accept the limitations the size of the enclosure puts on numbers and size of occupants. I personally would add a couple of Jackies and a pair of water skinks.

I know nothing about keeping sand swimmers other than they are very active. I didn’t keep mine long enough to learn – gave it someone who did know.

Blue


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## Revell13 (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll have to upload a more recent picture of my enclosure, Blue, I cant thank you enough, you are a wealth of knowledge and APS would be poorer without you. 

Rob_N_Son, i agree 100% 

Disintegratus, I got these two Jackys off a bloke near Mt Druitt in Sydney, he told me they were Andrew Camilirie stock originally and was selling them because he was never at home during the day, so it looks like Camo's Reptiles may have some this breeding season.


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## disintegratus (Sep 7, 2012)

Lovely. I think I'm going to have to suck it up and freight them. Having worked for a freight company for 4 and a half years, I've been very hesitant to get live animals freighted.


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## Revell13 (Sep 7, 2012)

Your in Melbourne right? Doesn't amazingamazon have some? I've been thinking about saving some dollars and road tripping it down there from Wollongong for a weekend just to buy herps...


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## Jaws07 (Sep 7, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Your in Melbourne right? Doesn't amazingamazon have some? I've been thinking about saving some dollars and road tripping it down there from Wollongong for a weekend just to buy herps...



AA did get some in a few days ago, they are gone now though, as I understand.


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## Revell13 (Sep 7, 2012)

See if you can be put on a waiting list for them, there are obviously reptiles being moved through Melbourne...


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## longirostris (Sep 9, 2012)

Good morning to you all,

most of what is being discussed is quite relevant, and in most cases works provided the particular provisos such as making sure there is enough food, hiding spots, size equality etc. 

In my opinion though Scott is right and the best method for keeping dragons is seperate the species and even keep the males apart and the smaller the groups the better


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## eipper (Sep 9, 2012)

+1 here Mark

My feeling is that this person wants more species than they can adequately house in the space they have and as a result want to combine species to save space. If housed and fed correctly the water dragons will be at a size that would enable them to eat both adult Jacky and Mountain dragons within a year. At the same time Jacky dragons would be able to eat mountain dragons within months. I can only see this ending up in eaten lizards. 

I would never put anything else in with Eremascincus they are amazing little predators!

Cheers
scott


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## longirostris (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi Scott, Agree with your comments. I guess we all learn the hard way. I have seen people house similar sized dragons of different species together and wonder why one or 2 of them go missing every now and then. A classic example of this was a mate who had most of his collection housed outdoors but had a couple of enclosures inside. Because he had to generate his own electricity he could not have any more then the one or 2 enclosures, long story short, he had Painteds and Canegrass dragons in the same cage whilst waiting for paperwork so he could ship them to me. Turns out that the Canegrass I got in the shipment were down were down on what I was expecting. 

My mate had no idea what had happened but what was sent was all he could find in the cage when it came time to pack and ship the animals to me. Twenty four hours after my animals arrived, one of the big male Painteds regurgitated a partially digested Canegrass dragon. I kid you not, I could not believe it myself yet there it was. 

Moral to the story for me, firstly dont mix species and secondly as I have said in the previous post, one or 2 animals per cage is best, and always keep males in seperate cages. I have over 250 small dragons spread over 30 species housed in 150 cages. It is the only way to ensure optimum growth for youngsters and quality of life for subadults and adults. You can always introduce a male into a controlled situation if you want to stimulate breeding behaviour. But I would not recomment leaving males of the same species together for long periods because one will become dominant and the other will over time loose condition, become emaciated and if left unattended will eventually die.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Size and growth, which will limit the time period for which the suggested arrangement will be viable, was highlighted in the second post by *Geckophotograper*. I can understand why the OP wants a mixed collection given the size (and nature) of the enclosure and its location. I would want as much variety as I could have if it were me in similar circumstances. 

Mixed collections are problematic but not impossible. There is a risk in putting any two reptiles together in one cage. What we should be doing here is helping the OP to minimise the risks of a small mixed collection, rather than throwing it in the too hard basket and telling him to house them separately. And should he ultimately end up with an eaten lizard, it will be a lesson learned. If lizards did not eat other lizards in nature, it would not be a challenge.

The number of lizards that can be kept in total is a function of the size of the lizards and the size of the micro-habitat available to them within the enclosure. This presumes that the suggested safeguards are put into place to minimise the risk of aggression and predation. This number will be reduced as the size disparity between certain species warrants the removal of one or the other. In order to maintain maximum diversity the OP might decide to exchange larger animals for smaller individuals of the same species. Whether he does or not is not relevant to the current question. He has been made aware from very early on that the arrangement he is seeking will have a limited life span. If he wants to go ahead with it, why can't we offer assistance rather than providing arguments against?

Blue


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## longirostris (Sep 9, 2012)

hello to you to Bluetongue 1. I am not around much these days so it is always nice to get on with something to contribute. I agree with your comments also and have no problem with your arguement. All I woud say is that it is my experience that the best laid plans of mice and men always come to grief as the old saying sort of goes. 

Even diligent keepers sometimes miss the warning signs, such as a dominating animal causing stress to another, but again as you quite rightly point out if people do not have a go at this sort of thing then nothing is learned and who knows, the person who started the thread may very well end up with a perfectly happy group of animals. Another old saying I guess applies here as well, "nothing ventured nothing gained"


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

I take great heart in you saying "nothing ventured nothing gained" Longirostris, as your's and Bluetounge1's input is highly valuable.
In regards to the water dragons, they will be staying with me for one year only, then going into my outdoor enclosure. The habitat is in my bedroom, and as a single, uni occupied male who has almost no social life, I will be able to watch them for a good deal of time throughout the day.
There is currently 1 eastern water skink (suspect-female), 1 black-soil (pygmy) bearded dragon (sex unknown) and two jacky's (M/F pair). In saying this, there is also an excess of crickets in the enclosure, and everyone in the enclosure at the moment is the same size. I am monitoring the situation daily to ensure there is no picking or biting between anyone.

I am able to have an excess of crickets in this particular enclosure because the water source has cricket eating fish (platties, paradise fish, guppies, catfish, tetras, barbs, sharks and suckers) and because, due to the size of the enclosure, it is not always easy for a dragon to catch said cricket. However in saying that, easier to catch and eat a smaller cricket than to tackle a similar sized dragon.

I understand the risks, I can tell you all as fact that the crickets are sending me broke as fish food (lol) and ill keep everyone updated on how it goes.

- - - Updated - - -

And I was ment to take new photo's of the enclosure today and completely forgot, I'll try to remember for tomorrow, I'm psyched at how it looks at the moment.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 9, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> I take great heart in you saying "nothing ventured nothing gained" Longirostris, as your's and Bluetounge1's input is highly valuable.
> In regards to the water dragons, they will be staying with me for one year only, then going into my outdoor enclosure. The habitat is in my bedroom, and as a single, uni occupied male who has almost no social life, I will be able to watch them for a good deal of time throughout the day.
> There is currently 1 eastern water skink (suspect-female), 1 black-soil (pygmy) bearded dragon (sex unknown) and two jacky's (M/F pair). In saying this, there is also an excess of crickets in the enclosure, and everyone in the enclosure at the moment is the same size. I am monitoring the situation daily to ensure there is no picking or biting between anyone.
> 
> ...



How have you managed to get your hands on so many local species?


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

The Jacky's I bought of a bloke in Mt Druitt 2 weeks ago, he told me he's working full time + Uni and doesnt get to care for them enough, they are def captive born and bred, very handleable, the Eastern Water Skink was from a bloke (who will remain unnamed but stay away from him, he's a dirtbag) in Hoxton Park, and the black soil bearded was given to me last night as part of the IRS ballot system, he was unwanted and I'm taking him in.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, water dragons (now in outdoor enclosure) from same dirtbag in Hoxton Park - I can only say I've learn't my lesson there, new ones im expecting soon are still eggs 

And it seams no matter how many times I see your profile pic, I have to smile, such a great shot of a gecko looking happy


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 9, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> The Jacky's I bought of a bloke in Mt Druitt 2 weeks ago, he told me he's working full time + Uni and doesnt get to care for them enough, they are def captive born and bred, very handleable, the Eastern Water Skink was from a bloke (who will remain unnamed but stay away from him, he's a dirtbag) in Hoxton Park, and the black soil bearded was given to me last night as part of the IRS ballot system, he was unwanted and I'm taking him in.



Ah ok cool.
Btw the Hoxton Park skink is 99% chance wild caught, I would be getting it wormed and quarantining it.(you should be quarantining all these lizards for a few months anyway)


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

I agree, he's a douche. The hoxton park reptiles were all quarantined, wormed, mite sprayed and vet checked before going into their living enclosures.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi ya. With that number of mouths to feed and mostly live feeders I am not surprised you don't have a lot of spare time at your disposal.

With small dragons the OP has picked one of the hardest groups to look after in species specific enclosures, let alone a mixed collection. There will undoubtedly be some challenges he will have to meet. As Scott said, you really need to think it trhough first. I agree. You most certainly need to find out as much as one can about each desired species before making any decision. 

If it were me, I would restrict the dragon species to one and that would be Mountain Dragons because they are more amenable to being kept a small colony. I would add a couple of Coppertail Skinks and two small Water Skinks. I might also add a couple of Thick-tailed Geckos and/ or a small number of Leseur's Gecko. As a large Water Skink would make a meal of a smaller lizard, those and the EWD would be on the 'swap it for a smaller animal' list once it starts to approach being big enough to help itself to a free meal.

I reackon the old saying that most applies here (and coincidentally is herpetological in nature) is: "Behold the tortoise... it cannot make progress without sticking its neck out".

Blue

PS. As always, a pleasure to chat Rick.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 9, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> I agree, he's a douche. The hoxton park reptiles were all quarantined, wormed, mite sprayed and vet checked before going into their living enclosures.



Quarantined for how long?


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

Not long enough I know, but I tried to do the right thing, after the vet said they were fine (2 weeks after purchase) I put them in.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, Josh can you help me out mate? I have a female thick tail who looks gravid but her condition seams to be worsening, can you stick your head back into this thread in a few hours after I've had some dinner and taken some photo's? I'd love a professional opinion on just whats going on.

- - - Updated - - -

GeckoJosh, can you tell me whats going on here? I was told they ALWAYS lay clutches of two eggs, but there appears to be only one lump and it seams to be much to big to be an egg, I was sold this pair from a guy in Wollongong who said it originally had a bit of a hard life... Might it be a tumour? Im thinking of taking her to the vet...


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 9, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Not long enough I know, but I tried to do the right thing, after the vet said they were fine (2 weeks after purchase) I put them in.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...




Looks like 2 eggs, when looking at them like in your 2nd pic the one on the left is a bit higher than the one on the right, the best way to see them is to put them in a chinese container and gently push them from above while viewing from below.
Also the of geckos eggs are quite big compared to them, the egg you can see clearly still has some growing to do


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

Eeeep, not sure I could do that to her, she has been "brittle" since I got her.


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## Bluetongue1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Definitely an egg. If I were a betting man I would only one. As a generalization, geckos normally have two eggs, occasionally one and on really rare occasions, three.

Make sure mum gets plenty of calcium and nutrients. Dusting and if you can vary the diet away from just crickets, that would be good. You can also feed her a little more than normal. Woodies are actually very nutritious for them.

Blue


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## Bushman (Sep 9, 2012)

This is a really good thread. It's great to see some of the more experienced herpers contributing so generously. 
Good on you guys for being so helpful. It's heartening to see. 8)
The only thing that I can add is that I don't recommend mixing different species indoors as a general rule. Outside in a big pit is usually OK, providing there is _plenty_ of cover.


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## Revell13 (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm really going to have to get some updated pictures of the enclosure up, its heaps better now than the original photo's, I believe there are enough hides to accommodate the species I'm looking at introducing. Cheers for the heads up Blue, I'll get some woodies on tuesday.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> I'm really going to have to get some updated pictures of the enclosure up, its heaps better now than the original photo's, I believe there are enough hides to accommodate the species I'm looking at introducing. Cheers for the heads up Blue, I'll get some woodies on tuesday.


Sorry but I think you are better off putting your time and effort into constructing a decent sized outdoor pit with multiple basking spots and places to hide.
I have seen too many dragons of the same species seriously mame one another.
The thing you are yet to witness is dominating behaviour (which gets extremely violent), the reason they have been ok so far is the age of your dragons and the time of year. Once it warms up a bit and they get a bit more hormonal your tank will turn into a reptile Battle Royale.


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## eipper (Sep 10, 2012)

Mike,

I think we are going to agree to disagree here. The amount of lizards in that cage provided they are properly fed are going to exceed its limitations within months. If it was going to be persisted with it will need multiple basking sites, with visual barriers between them. This in turn becomes problematic in providing a suitable thermal mosaic. Therefore in this particular instance within the given parameters I see no viable option of a mulitiple species cage.

Revell,
Your Underwoodisaurus 'husbandi' is gravid, she will need her piece and quiet to lay make sure you have an appropriate nest box. Geckojosh made a very good point about an outside enclosure, this would be a much better alternative to keeping inside, but at the same time external enclosures provide you a whole new set of considerations as well.

Cheers,
Scott

Cheers
scott


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Ok well here are the updated enclosure photo's











- - - Updated - - -

As you can see there are now 5 very individual hides, as well as 4 separate basking rocks, not to mention the back wall that gets used quite a lot.

I appreciate all the advice guys, but I'm going to go ahead and try it anyway, I'm not just going to dump the reptiles all in there at once, they will be added slowly so I can make sure everyone settles in without incident.

If things do go wrong, you can all say "I told you so" but I honestly believe there is enough in this enclosure to keep them occupied enough not to fight, there is always an excess of food, fresh greens, bearded dragon pellets as well as live crickets and as of tomorrow woodies as well, I suppose from here its just a matter of sourcing the different species I'm looking for and keeping you all updated on how it goes.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and I don't have the option of an outdoor enclosure, parents won't have a bar of it.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

I thought you were going to put the EWD outside when they got bigger anyway?

Also when we said separate basking sites we didn't mean multiple rocks under one light, we meant multiple lights situated strategically so they could not see each other from each basking site


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Outside two years from now when I have my own place yeah, and I know what you meant, this is just the best I can do in this situation. A mate of mine, who has been a keeper for about 40 years, has a multi species enclosure, much more basic than mine, and he hasn't had any issues at all for the past 10 years or so, one basking spot, about 4 hides and plenty of food.

Never know, I might have the same success as he has, as I said, over the next 6 months or so as I'm getting it set up I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Outside two years from now when I have my own place yeah, and I know what you meant, this is just the best I can do in this situation. A mate of mine, who has been a keeper for about 40 years, has a multi species enclosure, much more basic than mine, and he hasn't had any issues at all for the past 10 years or so, one basking spot, about 4 hides and plenty of food.
> 
> Never know, I might have the same success as he has, as I said, over the next 6 months or so as I'm getting it set up I'll let you all know how it goes.



Like many have said, yes it can work but more often than not you learn the hard way by having your dragons lose limbs/tails or worse.
I guess it just comes down to whether or not your are prepared to gamble on their well being.


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Mate honestly you have made your point about 5 times now and I've been agreeable, now is the time you step back and say, "Well, good luck mate hope it all works out, if not, we told you so" 

Please stop harping on about how it will be such a bad idea, I understand the possible consequences, and I think it will work.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Mate honestly you have made your point about 5 times now and I've been agreeable, now is the time you step back and say, "Well, good luck mate hope it all works out, if not, we told you so"
> 
> Please stop harping on about how it will be such a bad idea, I understand the possible consequences, and I think it will work.



Why did you start this thread if you already had your mind made up from the get go?

And don't worry I wont be posting in any of your threads again, I am only happy to help those who appreciate it without being rude little twats


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## richoman_3 (Sep 10, 2012)

lol true josh, why make a thread if you already know what youre doing :S


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## eipper (Sep 10, 2012)

Remember you asked for input to begin with. When you don't like the answer you ignore the advice or attempt too argue the point.

I personally hope you are unsuccessful in your hunt to track down more occupants for your enclosure.

Cheers
scott


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## PythonLegs (Sep 10, 2012)

Ahhhh, deary me. Can anyone else foresee a 'help,dissapearing dragons!' thread in the near future? I can't get my head around why you would Want to put them all in together? Can you not afford enclosures? Do you think it's racist to keep them apart? What possible good can this do for the animals involved? If you can think of a positive, I woul love to hear it..


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## mad_at_arms (Nov 26, 2012)

Don't worry stenrulz the OP is long gone.
I don't expect him to come back so we can all say told you so.


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