# Seriously!!!????



## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Why is it so hard to get pure Diamonds. I got these today, they are so not pure. The add was on RDU and he showed me pics of the parents but the hatchies look nothing like them!!! The first pic is the mum, the second is dad the next 2 are the male hatchy then 1 more of the female hatchy. Is this a joke or what??? Please add any comments you like, I want to hear evryones opinion.


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## Simple (Mar 22, 2007)

How old are your hatchlings and how many sheds have they had?


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## inthegrass (Mar 22, 2007)

does the colour change as they get older????
cheers


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Shed once hatched 24/1/07. I just am not impressed with the stripes. I know the colours take about a year to come out. But the stripes won't turn into Diamond shaped rosettes.


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## cyclamen (Mar 22, 2007)

looks like there crossed with a jungle or carpet or somthing


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## jessop (Mar 22, 2007)

the male looks 50/50 jungle/DP... female a bit more pure DP maybe 75/25 DP/Jungle...?JMO


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## IsK67 (Mar 22, 2007)

Adam said:


> Why is it so hard to get pure Diamonds. I got these today, they are so not pure. The add was on RDU and he showed me pics of the parents but the hatchies look nothing like them!!! The first pic is the mum, the second is dad the next 2 are the male hatchy then 1 more of the female hatchy. Is this a joke or what??? Please add any comments you like, I want to hear evryones opinion.



Wow.

My Sitara looked pretty much like she looks today. A slightly less yellow maybe but still the same.

I think you had best talk to the "breeder".

IsK


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## Snow1369 (Mar 22, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> Wow.
> 
> My Sitara looked pretty much like she looks today. A slightly less yellow maybe but still the same.
> 
> ...



who'd you get her from, quite nice.


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Yes I am no impressed to say the least!!!!


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## jessop (Mar 22, 2007)

how much did you pay Adam (if you don't mind me asking)?


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## slither (Mar 22, 2007)

yeah mate get ahold of the breeder they are definately not pure diamonds either half jungle or carpet there mate i have pure ones and im on the gold coast


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## IsK67 (Mar 22, 2007)

Snow1369 said:


> who'd you get her from, quite nice.



She is originally from Ken Griffiths.

IsK


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Are you selling slither????? I paid $275 each for them. I am devistated!!! Now I have 5 halfbreeds that are useless to me!!!!


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## Snow1369 (Mar 22, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> She is originally from Ken Griffiths.
> 
> IsK




yes, and that is?  (how much you pay if you don't mind me asking)


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## pythoness (Mar 22, 2007)

Adam, i think the answer is even simpler than that. the parent pics are diamonds, but there not the parents of your bubs, that much is obvious as you say, there stripped. what you have there looks almost identical to my beautiful intergrade diamond (x) carpets at the same age.
they will turn out to be stunning animals in their own right, but pure diamond they are not!! (imho)


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## pugsly (Mar 22, 2007)

Ive seen that 2nd Pic a few times around..

They MAY just be locality specimens such as a Port Mac for example, Taree etc etc which would explain the more carpet rosettes but the high yellow colour.

Some people call carpets from those areas Diamonds. Some Hybrids, crosses, intergrades, port macs, what next!


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## FAY (Mar 22, 2007)

The patterns on the head should give it away!


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## sxc_celly (Mar 22, 2007)

Theyre not completely useless. Were you looking to breed down the track? If your so unhappy, try contacting the breeder, or sell them. Someone out there, will be wanting a pet snake, and wont care if its a cross. As a pet i wouldnt . Id offer you a price for the lot lol. Theyre your options!


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## pythoness (Mar 22, 2007)

$275 each, oh hunny you got ripped *BIG *time.
At least when i bought my inter's i knew what they were and paid accordingly.


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Yeah I know I got ripped, this is why I am so annoyed!!! I got a pair off kiltboy for $100 each and I KNEW they were crosses, they were bought as pets not breeders, I told this guy I wanted to breed them. The thing is now I am stuck with them for 6 months!!!! I don't even want to look at them!!!!!


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## junglepython2 (Mar 22, 2007)

Contact the breeder ASAP, they should waive the 6months in cases like this.


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Yeah I will ring ecoacces tomorrow and see if I can sell them, but I don't want to rip anyone off and I don't think they are worth $275 each either!!! I have contacted the "breeder" and he says they are Diamonds.


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## Earthling (Mar 22, 2007)

Another case of the dodgy sellers.
They seem to be everywhere these days...even the supposedly good guys soemtimes go crazy and sell poo.
$275 was cheap for those parents hatchlings.......too cheap.

This is exactly why Adam, if I cant see the snakes with my own eyes, or come to some agreement with the seller if I dont like them (if sent), Im not buying them anymore.
Toooo many poo heads out their with no integrity........


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## pythoness (Mar 22, 2007)

it's a terrible state of affairs, and one that is happening much too often now days. XX
with any luck you can get your money back, and just send a letter to the EPA explaining. they should waive the rule for this type of thing.


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## jessop (Mar 22, 2007)

mate that is terrible news. don't get me wrong, i would proudly look after/care for any healthy snake! but to be sold something you did not pay for is disgraceful.


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## MrBredli (Mar 22, 2007)

pugsly said:


> Ive seen that 2nd Pic a few times around..
> 
> They MAY just be locality specimens such as a Port Mac for example, Taree etc etc which would explain the more carpet rosettes but the high yellow colour.
> 
> Some people call carpets from those areas Diamonds. Some Hybrids, crosses, intergrades, port macs, what next!


 
I saw the ad and those pics and my first thought was they are not pure Diamonds. As Pugsly mentioned they may be 'Northern Diamonds' of some specific locale, but my gut feeling says one or both of those parents have some Carpet in them.


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## bunnykin (Mar 22, 2007)

yeah I've also seen pythons that look almost completely coastal carpet like and the owners have called them diamonds 1 was at an animal park .... I remember a couple of days ago on here a newbie posted about why people use scientific names on here can I just say ....
there you go !


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Yes well he sounded like an older man who was trustworthy, thats the worst thing!!! Late last year I paid for a pair of hatchies I never even got, a few weeks ago I got a cross, sold as a pure adult male and now this!!!!!!! This is just a joke!!!!!!


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## junglepython2 (Mar 22, 2007)

It's only going to get worse as well.


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## Fester (Mar 22, 2007)

It really makes you cautious about buying without seeing! I was after a hypo Bredli female, had a bloke contact me, guaranteed *female* he claimed. Then I see his same email address on petlink advertising a hypo *male*!! I didn't go ahead with the purchase. Trouble is it makes it harder for the genuine breeders (unless well known) to sell their stock interstate.


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## liasis (Mar 22, 2007)

mate they all start dull like that and as they get older they yellow up you didnt get riped off so dont stress if you want them to come out relly yellow like the parents make sure they gut uv floros and they will be very nice


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

It's the stripes I am worried about, not the colours.


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 22, 2007)

they are pure diamonds and nice ones at that.i've delt with that seller twice now and my oldest is now 5yo.another friend bought a beautiful female off him a couple years ago as well.all baby diamonds look like that at that age.be patient and wait for it to grow.come 3-4 years of age it will look great.he's not a cheap dodgy breeder,he is just very well priced and i wouldn't hesitate in buying another animal off him.
heres a photo of my girl at 5


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Thanx for the reassurance. I have owned hatchy Diamonds before, it's just like I said, the stripes have me worried.


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## PhilK (Mar 22, 2007)

Why'd you buy them if you didn't like them...? (Sorry if this has be asked)


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

I wasn't shown pics of the hatchies.


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## PhilK (Mar 22, 2007)

Oh sorry, haha I didn't get that bit. Should've asked?


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## SnakePower (Mar 22, 2007)

Hi Adam,
I share your pain mate!  I also bought a pair of "diamonds" from this breeder. I was sent parent pics same as yours, and all assuramces were given! Then as soon as I got them, I was quite upset, just as you are. I rang the breeder immediately only to be told "THEY ARE DIAMONDS!"
I also know from having diamonds before that sometimes if not always they do take a while to colour up, but these animals look nothing like the parents in their patterning!!. The breeder even told me they were Gosford Diamond's, which they most definately are not! 
As you say mate, it's not the colour, it's the banded pattern! When I said that to the breeder, he said the mother has a few bands on her, yeah maybe one or two joined rossettes, but not covering half the bloody snake!! I also not sure what to do with mine, and when you confront the breeder, all he comes back with is THEY ARE DIAMONDS, well, I dis-agree!!!


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## SnakePower (Mar 22, 2007)

p.s. I also did not get shown any pics, just the promise of gorgous gosford diamond hatchies!


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## PhilK (Mar 22, 2007)

Excuse my ignorance, and I'm not trying to stir anything up here... But why wouldn't you ask for photos of what you were about to pay for? Also, SnakePower "said the mother has a few bands on her, yeah maybe one or two joined rossettes, but not covering half the bloody snake!!" .. If you weren't happy with the mother's patterning why did you buy?
Sorry if I'm being annoying..


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

That is EXACTLY what he said to me, exactly same response!!!!! Just not right!!!! They don't look anything like the parents and it's not good dealings. Thanx for sharing that with me snake power.


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 22, 2007)

even gosfords get different rosette patterns.i had a pure gosford with a banded rosette pattern across its body.different rosette patterns do occur in same localities.there is photo proof of this as well in the book"australian snakes,a natural history",on page 96 there is 4 diamonds mateing in a tree,3 of them have the small rosetteswhile the largest one has the stripes i'm talking about.the fact is carpet/diamond pythons from same localities have different patterns.some athertons have stripes,some dont.some palmersons have stripes,some dont .some proserpines have stripes, some dont.being from brisbane i'm sure you have seen local carpets with and without stripes.
heres a photo of the banded one.


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Sorry but that looks like an intergrade, not a Diamond.


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## nuthn2do (Mar 22, 2007)

Adam said:


> Sorry but that looks like an intergrade, not a Diamond.


Even i'm a bit suss with that


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## SnakePower (Mar 22, 2007)

I hope you are right Slimebo, as I hate the feeling of being ripped off as I'm sure does every one else! I hope they are pure diamonds and that it is for some reason just some pattern variation!
PhilK, as I said, she had one or two, and you had to look hard to find them on her. In the best part of both parents, what was visable was perfect rossettes down the back and along the sides! So I assumed if they were like the parents as I was told they were, then they would have been very different, and I along with Ad, I'm sure, would have been much happier!!
We were told they were exactly like the parents so I expected small diamond rossettes down the body of the snakes!


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

Exactly right SnakePower. I was told they looked just like the Father and in the pics you can see that this is NOT the case, they don't have any Diamond shaped rosettes on them anywhere, not just a couple of stripes, they are all stripes!!


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## MrSpike (Mar 22, 2007)

This a hybrid as well?


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## pythoness (Mar 22, 2007)

*pic for reference*

Adam, this is a pic of my diamond coastal intergrade cross type thingy as reference. as i'm sure you will agree, your new ones look alot more like this bub than diamond pure babies.
i acutally bought this as a cross, and i love her to bits. but .................. in your case, well :x


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## MrSpike (Mar 22, 2007)

Complete difference IMO.

Kane


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## pythoness (Mar 22, 2007)

oh ok then, well just trying to help :S


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 22, 2007)

like i said"look in the book" that i quoted.everyone thinks these days because something has a slightly different pattern it must be an intergrade.its just that breeders like to breed the best ones with the desired pattern that people are chasing .so noweveryone thinks every diamond with the round rossetes are gosfords and everyother one must be from port maquarie or an intergrade and its just not so.eric is a very honest man and the reason he snapped at you is because he has been in the game a bloody long time and knows what he has and breeds.while people like you sit on these website for 6 months and think you know everything.do some research,read books,go for bushwalks in late spring in the gosford area as i have done and you will be surprised with the patterns that you will get on real wild gosfords.i dont get on this site often but it ******s me when peoplebag people who know what they're on about.get some real experience under your sleave before you start bagging people.ask for photos of the snake your buying.you dont buy a car without seeing a photo of it first.dont presume that they will have the same pattern as the parents.my mates coastals(with no stripes) had 17 babies and 4 of them have stripes.ask for photos,its your own fault


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## dickyknee (Mar 22, 2007)

Adam said:


> I wasn't shown pics of the hatchies.



No offence meant here but why would you spend that kind of money on something you have never even seen , if he could not produce pics of the hatchies then maybe you should have looked else where .
I have some hatchy diamonds my self and i will say that the patterns on mine are a lot diff to yours , no real striping at all , just rosettes .any way i hope it all works out for you , and in future make sure you get the pics before you buy or better still only buy local ( you sound like you have had a bad run mate ) .
Its is so hard to tell what is a "real" diamond now a days any way , i have seen a heap of threads on here with the question of what is it , and i'm always amused how many conflicting replies the thread will get .


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## MrSpike (Mar 22, 2007)

By the way, the snake in the Image i posted is from the same parents and the one's Adam got. 

P.S slimebo - his name is John

Kane


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## FAY (Mar 22, 2007)

I have a friend who got to own a diamond from someone who knows its exact history......It was originally a rescue case and was found at Bulli tops.
Well...I would of bet my life savings that it was an intergrade........


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## cement (Mar 22, 2007)

To me it looks like the female has those little stripes on her, sorry to hear you feel that way mate but EVERYTHING in this world is "buyer beware". Project homes, cars, boats and snakes.
To avoid this we have to do little things to protect ourselves, in the case of buying snakes, sight them or at least get photos of the parents and the hatchling you are interested in. I live close to Bouddi Nat Park Gosford and without really knowing your circumstances, i would say they probably are diamonds, but unfortunatly not the pattern you were after.


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## dickyknee (Mar 22, 2007)

cement said:


> To me it looks like the female has those little stripes on her.



Just had a second look at the photos you posted too .....and i would say the female in the first pic does have stripes on her , not the whole length of her body , but there are stripes .
Looks like those hatchies may turn out like the mum .


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## zulu (Mar 22, 2007)

*re seriously*



GARTHNFAY said:


> I have a friend who got to own a diamond from someone who knows its exact history......It was originally a rescue case and was found at Bulli tops.
> Well...I would of bet my life savings that it was an intergrade........


Yeh fay theres diamonds in all areas that occassionally look carpet like,ive found them at dickey knees wonoona that ide swear were intergrades from kempsey,mind you,there was also a tame cunningham from the western slopes population near bathhurst sunbaking in front of my face whi9le i was crawling through lantana.


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## Adam (Mar 22, 2007)

slimebo said:


> like i said"look in the book" that i quoted.everyone thinks these days because something has a slightly different pattern it must be an intergrade.its just that breeders like to breed the best ones with the desired pattern that people are chasing .so noweveryone thinks every diamond with the round rossetes are gosfords and everyother one must be from port maquarie or an intergrade and its just not so.eric is a very honest man and the reason he snapped at you is because he has been in the game a bloody long time and knows what he has and breeds.while people like you sit on these website for 6 months and think you know everything.do some research,read books,go for bushwalks in late spring in the gosford area as i have done and you will be surprised with the patterns that you will get on real wild gosfords.i dont get on this site often but it ******s me when peoplebag people who know what they're on about.get some real experience under your sleave before you start bagging people.ask for photos of the snake your buying.you dont buy a car without seeing a photo of it first.dont presume that they will have the same pattern as the parents.my mates coastals(with no stripes) had 17 babies and 4 of them have stripes.ask for photos,its your own fault



Maybe you should get your facts right before jumping down peoples throats!!! The breeders names is John, so I don't think you know him as well as you may think. Look at how long I have been a member of this site, haven't just been sitting back for 6 months and think I know it al!!! I have been keeping reptiles for many years. Gosford Diamonds have the high yellow. Diamond Pythons are named after the Diamond shaped Rosettes on their bodies, this snake has no Diamond shapes on it anywhere!!!! Diamonds are not stripey, coastals carry that trait. Like I said get your facts right before you make yourself look silly. I have real experiance.


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## cris (Mar 22, 2007)

To be honest i dont see any problems with any of the snakes, wait and see what it looks like later. They only snake that i could call a hybrid in this thread is pythoness's. 

They may be hybrids i havnt really seen that many diamonds and it can be impossible to pick some hybrids from pure snakes.


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## MrSpike (Mar 22, 2007)

Adam said:


> Maybe you should get your facts right before jumping down peoples throats!!! The breeders names is John, so I don't think you know him as well as you may think. Look at how long I have been a member of this site, haven't just been sitting back for 6 months and think I know it al!!! I have been keeping reptiles for many years. Gosford Diamonds have the high yellow. Diamond Pythons are named after the Diamond shaped Rosettes on their bodies, this snake has no Diamond shapes on it anywhere!!!! Diamonds are not stripey, coastals carry that trait. Like I said get your facts right before you make yourself look silly. I have real experiance.



John Eric ******** is his name


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## -Peter (Mar 22, 2007)

sounds like you got some diamonds from Gosford instead of mythical Gosford diamonds


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## Snow1369 (Mar 22, 2007)

MrSpike, yours looks like a diamond


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## Adandiluvsmyreptiles (Mar 23, 2007)

Snow1369 said:


> MrSpike, yours looks like a diamond


yes - it doesn't look like it would be from the same clutch as Adam's.


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## Inkslinger (Mar 23, 2007)

The parents are less than spectacular nice color thats it, bad rosettes not very slender, big heads, the hatchies you got I dont even think will colour up as well.


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## Inkslinger (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> Yeah I will ring ecoacces tomorrow and see if I can sell them, but I don't want to rip anyone off and I don't think they are worth $275 each either!!! I have contacted the "breeder" and he says they are Diamonds.



A really good Diamond hatchy can set you back up to $400
Here is a pic of a yearling I sold not long ago


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## Bundy5 (Mar 23, 2007)

Yours are Diamond Coastal. I know cause i bred. Diamond are very distinct in pattern, be yellow or cream. Your patterns are coastal but no stripe. I have 2 from first season & they are stunning. One is cream & black black, the other is a fab mix of colours, if you don't want them i'll adopt, but will not breed.


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## Inkslinger (Mar 23, 2007)

This may Help
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...unt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au&client=firefox-a


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## Rosemary (Mar 23, 2007)

My male diamond was coloured/marked like these when he was a hatchy only he looked much more like a worm than yours - just tiny and runty, and he is a stunner now - definitely pure - so i wouldnt be so disappointed. I have seen a lot of diamond hatchies since and they are nothing to look at as babies


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 23, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> John Eric ******** is his name



thats right.


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## PimmsPythons (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> Maybe you should get your facts right before jumping down peoples throats!!! The breeders names is John, so I don't think you know him as well as you may think. Look at how long I have been a member of this site, haven't just been sitting back for 6 months and think I know it al!!! I have been keeping reptiles for many years. Gosford Diamonds have the high yellow. Diamond Pythons are named after the Diamond shaped Rosettes on their bodies, this snake has no Diamond shapes on it anywhere!!!! Diamonds are not stripey, coastals carry that trait. Like I said get your facts right before you make yourself look silly. I have real experiance.



i've got my facts right.his name is john eric *****.i've seen about a dozen wild diamonds in the gosford area and only half of them looked like a" gosford".like consequence said,you got a diamond from gosford,not a "gosford" diamond.


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## junglist* (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> Are you selling slither????? I paid $275 each for them. I am devistated!!! Now I have 5 halfbreeds that are useless to me!!!!



sook


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## Adam (Mar 23, 2007)

junglist* said:


> sook



Nice, very nice.


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

they look like diamonds to me


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## Adam (Mar 23, 2007)

Note the fact they have NO Diamond shaped rosettes, this is what the Diamond is named after.


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

its natural variation, you can get blue green tree frogs, does that mean they are a hybrid or different species?


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## Goannas1 (Mar 23, 2007)

they look like pure diamonds to me dont get all upset over nothing i bought one like that 2 years ago from andrew at Engadine and its as pure as thay can get all diamonds have difrent rosette shapes mate


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## PhilK (Mar 23, 2007)

Good point Hornet! Hahahaha


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

i would probably be the same, i get very paranoid over my herps, but as said before, you can find stripped jungles in the same area as normal looking ones, same goes for coastals


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## Adam (Mar 23, 2007)

OK cool. Thank for the ressuring words. Looks like I will breed them and sell them as pure Diamonds then.


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

it will be easier to tell what they are when older but i'm saying diamond


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## cris (Mar 23, 2007)

When i first looked i thought it was a bit sus, but on closer inspection the markings are actually very similar to the parents IMO.


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## junglist* (Mar 23, 2007)

slimebo said:


> even gosfords get different rosette patterns.i had a pure gosford with a banded rosette pattern across its body.different rosette patterns do occur in same localities.there is photo proof of this as well in the book"australian snakes,a natural history",on page 96 there is 4 diamonds mateing in a tree,3 of them have the small rosetteswhile the largest one has the stripes i'm talking about.the fact is carpet/diamond pythons from same localities have different patterns.some athertons have stripes,some dont.some palmersons have stripes,some dont .some proserpines have stripes, some dont.being from brisbane i'm sure you have seen local carpets with and without stripes.
> heres a photo of the banded one.



Finally someone who understands the differences which can occur within a population of a single species.

Adam, you're being a little (read very) childish.

You've got no idea what you're talking about and yet you're complaining that you didnt get what you paid for.

hop off your soap box for you are only making yourself look silly.

If you look closely at the patterning on the adult diamonds you have seen, look cery closely at the patterning which occurs, and you can actually see banding there, though not as well defined as a bredli etc.

Your definition of pure leaves much to be desired as does your knowledge.


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## *~PreciousDiamonds*~ (Mar 23, 2007)

I am only new to herping and your hatchies look similar to mine, the only thing I would be worried about is light and heating, if it is a pure diamond, well you know what to do, but if it is a cross, should it be kept warmer or cooler?


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## Earthling (Mar 23, 2007)

Quoted from 'Pythons of The World' by Barker, page 134, Diamond Pythons.


"It is not unusual to observe some or all of the paired blotches to be positioned side by side; occasionally the paired blotches are fused to form thin transverse bars across the back or, rarely, several may fuse longitudinally to form a short zigzag line."


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## boydii (Mar 23, 2007)

adam coud you go to the epa or something about this


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## Retic (Mar 23, 2007)

They look like Diamonds to me, it is silly to say because Diamonds are named because of the 'typical' diamond shaped rosette that they all have that pattern. There is as much variation amongst Diamonds as there is in carpets. I would imagine if the breeder read this thread he would be bemused and probably quite angry.


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## GSXR_Boy (Mar 23, 2007)

Our "hybrid" (in the for sale section) has both the stipes are rosettes in places.
Here is a link with some hybrids, pure etc:
: http://www.kyherpsoc.org/carpetpythonsprop.html
Good luck with them mate


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## Fester (Mar 23, 2007)

Here is a link to Matthew Bonnets website and some of his Gosford lineage:

http://www.users.on.net/~jbonnett/Diamonds 2007.htm


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## pythoness (Mar 23, 2007)

well there you go :O so i was wrong, oh well, not the first time lol.


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## Goannas1 (Mar 23, 2007)

every one makes mistakes


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

boa said:


> They look like Diamonds to me, it is silly to say because Diamonds are named because of the 'typical' diamond shaped rosette that they all have that pattern. There is as much variation amongst Diamonds as there is in carpets. I would imagine if the breeder read this thread he would be bemused and probably quite angry.



its like i said, saying a blue morph green tree frog, snake or python is a different species because it not what the name says, all animals can have incredible variation even animals found side my side


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## Adam (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> OK cool. Thank for the ressuring words. Looks like I will breed them and sell them as pure Diamonds then.


 
Did anyone read this post??


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

yea and i said wait till they are a little older and you can b sure they are diamonds but its lookin like they r diamonds atm


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## dickyknee (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> Originally Posted by Adam View Post
> OK cool. Thank for the ressuring words. Looks like I will breed them and sell them as pure Diamonds then.
> 
> Did anyone read this post??



I'll take a pair .


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## stary boy (Mar 23, 2007)

HAHAHAH dodgey dodgey thats the guy i got my diamonds off!!!! but mine are pure and were adults...but still


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## Goannas1 (Mar 23, 2007)

Adam said:


> Did anyone read this post??



yep but still every one keeps going wird


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## Adam (Mar 23, 2007)

Yes, weird hey snakeman. I suppose I made the mistake of asking for everyones opinions LOL. If they are pure Diamonds well so be it. I will breed them and sell them as pure Diamond hatchies, I feel better now. Thanx for everyones input, thats what this site is for!!


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## stary boy (Mar 23, 2007)

o well i wouldnt know what hatchies look like lol ... hopefully mine breed and ill learn... but like i said i got my 2 adults (both pure) of john and didnt have a problem


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## Adandiluvsmyreptiles (Mar 23, 2007)

ROFLMAO to everyone who said they are diamonds and not x with coastal as the seller has emailed us with a confession that "they may have a slight intergrade jean" LOL Snakes wear jeans? But anyhoo. So much for all the know it all's on this site...how's about ya'll step off your soapboxes for once?


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## Adandiluvsmyreptiles (Mar 23, 2007)

boa said:


> . I would imagine if the breeder read this thread he would be bemused and probably quite angry.



Sorry - don't give a flying something or other if the breeder would be bemused and quite angry. WE were the ones who were ripped off by HIM selling "DIAMONDS" Nothing was said at the time about their "slight intergrade jean". 
The breeder knows we are upset about this purchase - we aren't like alot of people who just whinge about something on a public forum - we do actually take it to the person we have the concern with first.

Don't say you're selling a diamond python if it may have an integrade gene. This is very misleading.


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## pythoness (Mar 23, 2007)

aa HA so i was right, lol i retract my former self denouncement


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

Adandiluvsmyreptiles said:


> we aren't like alot of people who just whinge about something on a public forum - we do actually take it to the person we have the concern with first.



then what was this thread started for?


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## cris (Mar 23, 2007)

what is an intergrade gene? 
are the photos their real parents?


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## hornet (Mar 23, 2007)

i think they mean there there are coastal carpet genes somewhere down the line, since there is no such thing as the "intergrade gene"


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## da_donkey (Mar 24, 2007)

This thread is pathetic 

So what happens now?

Hybrids are crap, intergrades are crap, PMC are crap....and what now Diamonds are crap????
(for everyone that cant take sarcasm...i love all the above mentioned snakes)


For gods sake, anyone that has ever had a clutch of diamonds will know that there "patterns or roseettes" vary!......so much can and does happen between hatchie diamonds and yearlings.

I was lucky enough to yesterday get a pair of what i think are, if not the best- garenteed the top three bred diamonds in Australia (that means World).

And guess what?????? they dont have perfect rosettes...anyone that checks other sites beside APS might have seen them...(Boa... i got his details off you, and you said good luck:lol: guess what ....i got lucky...thanks mate).


Donk


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

Hmmmmm gee strange he has now admitted in an email that they are not pure and they have some coastal jean (I think he means gene) in them, so just goes to show how many of you are right. If there is one thing I know alot about, then that is the Diamond Python, they have been my passion for a very long time now. However if those who say it is a pure Diamond really want to keep thinking that after the truth has been told, it just shows how well you "know" your snakes. donkey, this thread is not pathetic, it point out how carefull you have to be when buying pure bred snakes!!!!! I was not the only person on this site misled by this man.


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

hornet said:


> then what was this thread started for?



This thread was started to get a general consessus on people opinion of the hatchies, I DID take it up with the breeder before posting on here. I wanted to know if other people out there can spot a real Diamond or not!!!!


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## da_donkey (Mar 24, 2007)

Adam, i am not doubting your knowledge of diamonds...and if this person has now admitted to you that they are not pure, then i hope you get your money back.

i am just trying to stress the point, that Diamond hatchies look nothing like there parents....if anyone thinks that they are goig to breed "Gosford Diamonds" and there all going to hatch with perfect rosettes and shed twice and be bright yellow then they are kidding themselves.

mmmmm i have a feeling that in the not so distent future we might have stripey Diamonds...............oh no


Donk


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## Inkslinger (Mar 24, 2007)

Diamond Hatchies rather gosfords look nothing like those hatchies are generally a brown color.


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## Inkslinger (Mar 24, 2007)

"i am just trying to stress the point, that Diamond hatchies look nothing like there parents....if anyone thinks that they are goig to breed "Gosford Diamonds" and there all going to hatch with perfect rosettes"


Lot have look at bonnets for example
Selective breeding will do it.


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## COOP (Mar 24, 2007)

Hi Adam,
I am new to all this and my "pure bred" diamond was born on the 17th of february and like yours has shed once. it looks absolutely nothing like yours, and i did not ask for any information, other then to view the parents. They looked good, but not as good as the pics you have submitted (in regards to the yellow etc.).


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## COOP (Mar 24, 2007)

p.s can not upload pics for some reason. sorry


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## Inkslinger (Mar 24, 2007)

You should be able to get your money back.


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

No problem mate, only too happy to help, I actually got a pair myself yesterday. You were VERY lucky to get some. ;-)



da_donkey said:


> I was lucky enough to yesterday get a pair of what i think are, if not the best- garenteed the top three bred diamonds in Australia (that means World).
> 
> And guess what?????? they dont have perfect rosettes...anyone that checks other sites beside APS might have seen them...(Boa... i got his details off you, and you said good luck:lol: guess what ....i got lucky...thanks mate).
> 
> ...


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

Stripey Diamonds, that'll never happen LOL.



da_donkey said:


> mmmmm i have a feeling that in the not so distent future we might have stripey Diamonds...............oh no
> 
> 
> Donk


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## hornet (Mar 24, 2007)

boa said:


> Stripey Diamonds, that'll never happen LOL.



they wont be diamonds because diamonds are named after the diamond shaped rosettes remember


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

That's right, it would be a new species but what would they be called ??


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## da_donkey (Mar 24, 2007)

boa said:


> That's right, it would be a new species but what would they be called ??


 

Striamond python (Morelia spilota striped-alota)


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## Tristis (Mar 24, 2007)

if you look at the adult it has stripes to begin with. 
i think theres a pretty good chance they came from those to snakes


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## Adandiluvsmyreptiles (Mar 24, 2007)

They may be from those 2 snakes. If a snake has an integrade gene in it that the seller is aware of they should tell any purchaser.


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

If this "they may have a slight intergrade jean" is a direct quote from the breeder I would assume he is saying maybe there is intergrade blood somewhere along the line but who knows ? Thats how I would take it.


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## cris (Mar 24, 2007)

i cant really see anything wrong has been done by the breeder, if you wernt happy with what the parents were you shouldnt have got them. If by some chance they are not from those parents then its very dodgy, but i dont think that is the case.


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## trader (Mar 24, 2007)

Adam said:


> Why is it so hard to get pure Diamonds. I got these today, they are so not pure. The add was on RDU and he showed me pics of the parents Please add any comments you like, I want to hear evryones opinion.



Hi Adam, Did you receive the 'pm' I sent you?


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

Yes but you aren't accepting PM's back, so I sent an email to you via the Herp Shop link.


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## cement (Mar 24, 2007)

cris said:


> i cant really see anything wrong has been done by the breeder, if you wernt happy with what the parents were you shouldnt have got them. If by some chance they are not from those parents then its very dodgy, but i dont think that is the case.


 
If this breeder has told Adam they are pure, and now he tells him otherwise because of this thread then this thread has exposed a person who will lie to a customer ,in the interest of making a profit. Adam' s done nothing wrong except decide to buy these snakes on little or no true info.
GIVE HIM HIS MONEY BACK


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## trader (Mar 24, 2007)

Adam said:


> Yes but you aren't accepting PM's back, so I sent an email to you via the Herp Shop link.



Sorry I thought I had checked off the correct buttons to receive 'pms'...can you try again?


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

Thank you cement!!!!


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

I am yet to see where this thread has exposed anything. The breeder seems to have said that they may have some intergrade blood somewhere along the line, maybe the parents parents came from an area that could have intergrades ? I fail to see how what the breeder says has exposed him as a liar. Surely we would have to hear from the breeder or at least see the whole email to cast judgement on him ?
The snakes look like Diamonds, the parents look like Diamonds.


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

pfffffffffffttttttttt to you boa, you just can't handle being wrong!! LOL I will not post the whole email as I don't want to be kicked off APS, it is a breach in the rules.


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## cement (Mar 24, 2007)

boa said:


> I am yet to see where this thread has exposed anything. The breeder seems to have said that they may have some intergrade blood somewhere along the line, maybe the parents parents came from an area that could have intergrades ? I fail to see how what the breeder says has exposed him as a liar. Surely we would have to hear from the breeder or at least see the whole email to cast judgement on him ?
> The snakes look like Diamonds, the parents look like Diamonds.


Whats the first word in my post?


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

I have no problem with being wrong, if I am shown to be wrong I would be the first to put my hand up. 
It is a breach of APS rules to post an email ?? I just want to see EXACTLY what this breeder says before condemning him, seems the fair thing to do.


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

Whats



cement said:


> Whats the first word in my post?


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

Here you go....They are Diamonds you saw the parents they may have a slight intergrade jean. When they grow up they will be beautiful snakes. You could have paid $350 to $400 from Bob whitely and they have intergrade in them.


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

Thank you, well I certainly stand by what I said having read that. Like a great many other Diamonds around they COULD have some intergrade blood in them. I can't see anything in what he has said that makes it appear he lied to you or tried to deceive you. He appears to be saying they could feasibly have as he says a 'slight intergrade gene', not the best way to put it but I understand what he is saying.


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## Adam (Mar 24, 2007)

He said they were pure and when confronted he admitts the truth, the way he says it sounds to me like he saying they are not pure but have some intergrade gene, that si not pure and he knows it. That to me is a lie when he said they were pure at the time of purchase. I will keep them and breed them but will be sold as impure Diamonds and I will be telling my customers the truth, They will be cheap snakes too.


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## Retic (Mar 24, 2007)

Fair enough.


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## buck (Mar 24, 2007)

Adam said:


> If there is one thing I know alot about, then that is the Diamond Python, they have been my passion for a very long time now. However if those who say it is a pure Diamond really want to keep thinking that after the truth has been told, it just shows how well you "know" your snakes.


 
I seem to remember in a recent thread http://http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=50152 on diamonds/intergrades you posted pics up of a snake that you had originally bought as a diamond, and seemed happy with it until the thread started, only to find out that it was a hybrid. You even made posts along the lines of "well what is my snake then?". Now you are trying to make out you are some sort of authority on diamonds?????

I don't think the breeder has done anything wrong. Saying that there may be some intergrade gene isn't an admission of guilt. You are obviously so hung up on the apparrant striping that I think he is just trying to provide you with a possible cause for it.
Someone who knows so much about diamonds would surely know that hatchies quite often have zig zag "barring" which split to form rozettes with each shed. A hatchling diamond looks nothing like it will when it matures. 

Also after reading your last sentence quoted above a certain saying about stones and glass houses comes to mind


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## MrSpike (Mar 26, 2007)

Sorry but I fail to see where John has admited to selling you a hybrid? 

Quote: "they may have a slight intergrade jean"

That means that MAYBE somewhere down the line there may have been a crossing of coastal x diamond, or a port mac carpet brought into the mix, but not to his knowledge. If your not happy with the snakes then sell them. Get over it.

Kane


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## hornet (Mar 26, 2007)

i agree, they way he said its its sounds as if hes just saying, its possible but as far as i know they are pure.


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## Twiggz (Mar 26, 2007)

Adam said:


> You could have paid $350 to $400 from Bob whitely and they have intergrade in them.


 
Did you mean Whithey?
I must say i find this very very unlikely to be the case.
Bob has to my knowledge always bred PURE Gosford Diamonds


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

Those where his words not mine.
Sorry but I don't think 15 year olds are relly worth paying attention to.


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## hornet (Mar 26, 2007)

who are you calling 15 adam?


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## MrSpike (Mar 26, 2007)

Adam said:


> Those where his words not mine.
> Sorry but I don't think 15 year olds are relly worth paying attention to.



Sorry but whats your point, because I can actually read an e-mail and see what it means, your getting your panties in a knot?

You need to get over yourself.

Kane


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## hornet (Mar 26, 2007)

MrSpike said:


> Sorry but whats your point, because I can actually read an e-mail and see what it means, your getting your panties in a knot?
> 
> You need to get over yourself.
> 
> Kane



hehehehe


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## Twiggz (Mar 26, 2007)

Whos 15?


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## hornet (Mar 26, 2007)

no idea


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## dickyknee (Mar 26, 2007)

Twiggz said:


> Whos 15?



I wish i was


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## buck (Mar 26, 2007)

Mr Spike is. I just checked his profile.


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## swingonthespiral (Mar 26, 2007)

who cares if hes only 15 doesnt mean his points arent valid....

p.s dont attack me plz lol


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## *~PreciousDiamonds*~ (Mar 26, 2007)

I agree with you swingonthespirl....Just because someone is 15 doesn't mean they have nothing to say, this person could may have well grown up from a toddler with reptiles and probably knows more than others.
JMO


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## Tristis (Mar 26, 2007)

if your convinced there crosses why would you want to breed them and sell them. if you sell them cheap im sure they will sell but your making it harder to find pure snake later on.


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## Matty01 (Mar 26, 2007)

*diamond expert!*

why buy snakes unless you see the pics of them?? in my opinion youve only got yourself to blame, for someone whos such a big diamond expert, you should have spotted the so called "intergrade gene" in the pics of the adults! should have put your money in the bank as a deposit towards buying a house.
cheers Matt


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## dickyknee (Mar 26, 2007)

Mr Spike may well be one of the most mature people on here........ considering the way half the adults carry on , on here


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## cris (Mar 26, 2007)

Unless the breeder has said something that hasnt been posted here i dont think there is any reason to think they are crosses of any sort at all. Saying that it may have some intergarde gene (or whatever poorly chosen words were used) suggests to me that the snakes have a slight influence of a "port mac" carpet traits and absolutely nothing to do with cross breeding anything. All diamonds would infact have some "intergrade genes" as they are the same species.

A simple question to the breeder would be, are these pure snakes? then you will get a yes or no answer and all this pointless arguing over "intergrade genes" can stop.

If you dont trust him, ask for the breeders name that bred the parents and talk to them as they are clearly the only ones that could have been doing the cross breeding(unless it was the person who sold to the breeders breeder) and if they didnt cross breed them then you will have to track down the breeders, breeders breeder etc. until it goes back to where the snakes where collected. After doing that you would have to decide how far apart the original snakes would have to be for them not to be pure and that is hardly something that is clear cut.


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## bredli84 (Mar 26, 2007)

i dont know anything about wild pops of diamonds, but i have seen some wild tiger snakes near where we used to keep our horses, there was a lot of variation between individuals with some having almost no bands at all! but they were still TIGER snakes.
i would assume the same applies to diamonds. having said that, there does seem to be a fairly noticeable diff between the offspring and the parents so i can understand your concern.
have u seen this thread? http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=51750 there are some less typical looking diamonds here.


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## cris (Mar 26, 2007)

Thats right Bredli84 their appearance is no reason to think they arnt pure diamonds, you can even get carpets with diamond python like traits at the back of the Gold Coast and they are pure carpets.

Although i disagree with you saying there is a differance between the offspring and parents. There isnt any clear differance between them look very closely at the markings and you will see they are very similar. Its just that the colouration between the markings doesnt come out until later.

This thread demonstrates why some ppl hate cross breeding so much, because alot of the time you simply cant tell if something is a cross or not by looking at it.


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

Well the "breeder" has admitted to me on the phone that the mother was in fact a cross Diamond and Coastal. This lays to rest any arguement and proves the point that I was trying to make. The picture of her was not made available to me until after I had purchased the snakes.


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## junglecarpet (Mar 26, 2007)

What are you going to do with them now?


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

Haven't decided. Until I do decide, I wil just take care of them as if they were a Diamond.


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## cris (Mar 26, 2007)

Adam said:


> Well the "breeder" has admitted to me on the phone that the mother was in fact a cross Diamond and Coastal. This lays to rest any arguement and proves the point that I was trying to make. The picture of her was not made available to me until after I had purchased the snakes.



well then thats really dodgy if they were sold as diamonds, i would be asking for my money back. (If you mentioned that earlier i must have overlooked it and i have made a fool of myself again, oh no :lol: )


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## pythoness (Mar 26, 2007)

hmmm selling inter's as pure eh, well might betime to name and shame. i would want to know not to deal with this person, as i'm sure many others might fee the same eh? very dodgy XX


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## buck (Mar 26, 2007)

pythoness said:


> hmmm selling inter's as pure eh, well might betime to name and shame. i would want to know not to deal with this person, as i'm sure many others might fee the same eh? very dodgy XX


 
The breeder was sort of named earlier in the thread by several people who had prior dealings with him and had nothing but praise for him. I hate to say it but something just doesn't ring true to me, and I'm not necessarily referring to the breeder. Maybe I'm just a little sceptical but it would be pretty easy to say someone just said something over the phone in an attempt to save some face.

Either way something just doesn't ring true.


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## buck (Mar 26, 2007)

Adam said:


> Well the "breeder" has admitted to me on the phone that the mother was in fact a cross Diamond and Coastal. This lays to rest any arguement and proves the point that I was trying to make. The picture of her was not made available to me until after I had purchased the snakes.


 
You stated in your first post that he provided you with pics of the parents!!!!!!!!



> Why is it so hard to get pure Diamonds. I got these today, they are so not pure. The add was on RDU and he showed me pics of the parents but the hatchies look nothing like them!!! The first pic is the mum, the second is dad the next 2 are the male hatchy then 1 more of the female hatchy. Is this a joke or what??? Please add any comments you like, I want to hear evryones opinion.


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## cris (Mar 26, 2007)

I may be bashing my head against a brick wall but if they are infact decendants of a X they are not integrades but infact hybrids and would only be worth about $100 IMO.


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## cris (Mar 26, 2007)

buck said:


> You stated in your first post that he provided you with pics of the parents!!!!!!!!



hmm the plot thickens lol


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

Yes he did provide pics of the parents, that's how I posted them. He didn't provide them untill after I got the snakes, I am not trying to save face. If I am wrong I will admitt to it. He has openly admitted that the female is not pure. I don't see why the big debate, they have been proven not to be what I asked for and that is a pure line of Diamond Python. That is the simple plain truth.


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## IsK67 (Mar 26, 2007)

::Walks over to the dead horse::

::Gives it a kick::

"Ya dead yet?"

::Shakes head and walks away::


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## Jsnakes77 (Mar 26, 2007)

1'st pic: monty is black n white n diamonds is gold n black with white belly
2'nd pic: bigb is yellow/white n black with yellow belly
3'rc pic: skitells is high yellow n black 
4'th pic: MnM is white and black 
even though in the pic they all look different when i lokk at them they are the colours i wrote down but on pic different

now there colour changes every time they shed high yellow more white less yellow high gold i give up when i brought my first 2, diamonds and monty there were black and white now there gold and white with black 

so i really don't know what looks more of a diamond but i love them all just the same cause there great with the kids and my wife holds them too cause they have never bitten us ..


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## tan (Mar 26, 2007)

May I ask, has the seller ever offered you your money back?


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## Tsidasa (Mar 26, 2007)

IsK67 said:


> ::Walks over to the dead horse::
> 
> ::Gives it a kick::
> 
> ...


is it sad that i read this thread in it's entirety?? :shock:


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

tan... No he has not offered any money back.
Isk....... ROFLMAO!!!!! I agree!!!!


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

I cant beleive what i have read.
Adam, you have just attacked a person who you know Nothing about.
I'm with slimebo - I myself have a few of his DIAMONDS.
This guy was one off the original's in the field of identifying Dps.
He & Greg have done a number of studies/reasurch in dp's.
John Eric....... IS a honest, trustworthy gentleman who has dedicated a
considerable part off his life to herps in general.
You have the hide to smear his name in public, with what evidence ????
If I was him, I'd see you in COURT - NO JOKE MATE.
Actually, you might.


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

He has admitted to selling me intergrades that were advertised as Diamonds. He should be the one going to court!!!!


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

I see you are a chopper Read fan...................Seriously ????


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

I'd beleive a person with years of experience before someone who's got splinters in his ****
from being on the computer to much !!!!


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

Then why didn't you buy Diamonds off him instead of posting soooo many questions on here!!!!?????


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

How many adult dp's do you think a breeder wants to sell.
There his BREEDERS


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

I didn't buy any hatchies.
I bought adults - and I have another female to collect in 2 weeks.
Anythink else you would like to know ???


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2007)

You advertised for hatchies too. I was NOT the one to release his name first either, just go back and have a FULL read of this thread. How would you know how much time I spend on the computer?? 

Kicks horse again..
Why won't you just lay down and DIE!!!!
*stupid horse*


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

Hatchies ????????? show me where ???


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## mungus (Mar 26, 2007)

Ive also bought adult dp's for glimmerman & Greg Hollis.
If ya know anything about dp's, you would know who they are.
Then again ..........................


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