# Snakes and Netting



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 5, 2009)

Pinched this pic from a site where im not allowed to post.
Is this really how Wires teaches people to catch snakes? 
Now everyone is buying the netting and diy snake catching is booming.
Firies fight creepy crawlies, too - Local News - News - General - Wollondilly Advertiser
*'Firefighters are trained to handle venomous snakes, reptiles and all creepy crawlies. Mr Rogers, of Ingleburn Fire Station, said the firies had been getting a lot of calls from people asking for help. *

*For this reason, the Ingleburn, Campbelltown, Warragamba and Picton fire stations did a training course to help ease the pressure on wildlife groups like WIRES.'*


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## redbellybite (Dec 5, 2009)

THAT IS THE MOST DISGUSTING ACT OF CRUELTY I HAVE READ !!! 
bloody hell ..this in all honesty is what happens when people are not trained correctly .and take what seems like a good idea at the time and turn it into this type of rubbish ...they are just as bad as the shovel sherrifs and lead busters in my books ..WIRES should be ashamed of themselves if this is what they are promoting on how to catch snakes !! and I also noticed the dreaded bloody tongs again ...incompetent people ..

NSW needs to really get on board and get people out there that can be trained correctly and work on their own and be paid for their services in catch and relocate snakes of all types ..leave the fireys to do fires and WIRES to do the other animals ..reptiles are in a league of their own and should be treated and respected for that bahh am so pissed off !!


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## redbellybite (Dec 5, 2009)

Forgot to ask Baz ..was that site the horsey one by any chance?


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## antaresia_boy (Dec 5, 2009)

The fact that they are _promoting_ that is just amazing...what dip-sticks.


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## ReptilianGuy (Dec 5, 2009)

OMFG ***!!! reccomended practise??? OK then... how bloody stupid, net it then go disentangle it. ok so they train them to get close to a ven's head in order to disentangle the animal.... now that is just lacking common sense... the idea is to use tongs, tiggers and bags to remove the animal to minimize touching and risk of being bit... who tought WIRES and let them out to teach this as standard practise


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## Kyro (Dec 5, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> NSW needs to really get on board and get people out there that can be trained correctly and work on their own and be paid for their services in catch and relocate snakes of all types ..leave the fireys to do fires and WIRES to do the other animals ..reptiles are in a league of their own and should be treated and respected for that bahh am so pissed off !!



Even better idea why don't some of you people that know what your doing regarding vens approach these groups as a volunteer & offer to train people that are interested or offer your own services free of charge. After all what your doing isn't that different to all the other volunteers that put in their own time & money to care for native wildlife. Fair enough there is a risk factor, there is with a lot of animals but people still do it because they care.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 5, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Forgot to ask Baz ..was that site the horsey one by any chance?


No Nat it was on a herp forum.


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## redbellybite (Dec 5, 2009)

ReptilianGuy said:


> OMFG ***!!! reccomended practise??? OK then... how bloody stupid, net it then go disentangle it. ok so they train them to get close to a ven's head in order to disentangle the animal.... now that is just lacking common sense... the idea is to use tongs, tiggers and bags to remove the animal to minimize touching and risk of being bit... who tought WIRES and let them out to teach this as standard practise


 dont wanna encourage tongs either ...
You wanna know my real beef with TONGS ...besides the obvious ,that it allows non competant people to do a job because they have a false sense of security relying on these tools ...and the old style that use to tear snakes up when used and you could see it from the outside of the snake little alone what damage was caused internally ..

Even with the so called WIDE GENTLE GIANTS tongs ...you cant feel the snake pulling against you ,through the tongs ,so you keep pulling back it keeps moving forward ,and they have the strength to do that ,you end up with a dead snake or a snake with fatal injuries that when you go and release it ..you would have been better off putting it out of its misery ..

HOW DO YOU FEEL THIS USING TONGS?












That RBB pulled against me very hard and I could feel it in its body as soon as it started. 
I allowed it to think it had the heads up ...as it released ,which I felt the mucles do ,I pulled more out and waited again ..
.You can not feel that if using tongs ,and you would certainly have hurt this snake no doubt about it using them too ..

If people that are suppose to be snake catchers ,who are to afraid to do hands on especially with venomous THEN GIVE UP ..its not a job for you ..end of story


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## Firepac (Dec 5, 2009)

Whilst any snake catcher should be confident and competent to use whatever tools/techniques necessary to ensure the safety of themselves, the people around them and the snake itself, netting is definately NOT one of those techniques. One of the more complicated rescues I had to do last year involved freeing an EB caught in a drag net on a typical hot Queensland day with no assistance.


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## timpye1 (Dec 5, 2009)

i have been to a few WIRES courses for relocating venomous snakes and i can honestly say the way they show you is the good old fashioned way of tailing.. no tongs.. not netting..


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## imalizard (Dec 5, 2009)

A snake catcher a few years said to us to throw netting around the yard to try and catch the snake. We threw the netting all over the place but then got some advice from a forum not to do that. Of course we had no idea that it was the wrong thing to do.

It just shows that some people have no respect for some animals


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## ReptilianGuy (Dec 5, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> dont wanna encourage tongs either ...
> You wanna know my real beef with TONGS ...besides the obvious ,that it allows non competant people to do a job because they have a false sense of security relying on these tools ...and the old style that use to tear snakes up when used and you could see it from the outside of the snake little alone what damage was caused internally ..


 

i too personally don't use or believe in tongs and personally prefer not to endorse them.. but the course i did used the wide raptor style for the supposedly safe side of it. i get the concept of it although i don't believe in it's use for reptiles health and did it for that course solely but don't believe in them as you cannot gage pressure applied and as you said the snake pulling back, the times i dropped the animal or it pulled out of the tongs from my fear of hurting it it rendered tongs useles for me. hands on is by far the best way and always the best experience. but in the way of training to use a net, thats just moronic and senseless. also induces unessesary risk when it comes to release or placing in the bag...


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## Casey (Dec 5, 2009)

No way do WIRES teach that. There was another wildlife group around who were suggesting the netting to people who called in about snakes in their yards, but never ever in the WIRES courses i have been to have they suggested doing this.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 6, 2009)

It does say in the article that the firemen did the course to help lighten the load on Wires.

That is why i asked if it was a Wires course because i thought it surely wouldnt be one.

Quite likely it was not a Wires course the fireman took.

Im sure Wires does a great job and i dont want them to cop flack for this if it wasnt their doing.


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## kupper (Dec 6, 2009)

Well said RBB, im not exactly trained at it and i have been known to do the wrong thing (before jordo jumps in to remind me) but i have always prefered to grab the snake than use tools tongs ect


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## redbellybite (Dec 6, 2009)

I am not totally a free handler ..I do use a snake hook /jigger(what ever you regard it as ) 
it is not invasive on the snake it is simply to use to lift under the head slide back up the body and then it enables me to grab a hold of the tail end ..sometimes I still slide the hook back down towards the head end and use it as a counter balance, especially on a big ven ,keeps a nice healthy distance from the bitey end and you ..
Other times I put the hook down, once I have the snake ..and of course the bag is just to put them in ..but have had 1 or 2 times where I was able to stick the bag over the opening of a hollow and coaxed the snake in with a few pokes from my hook and so didnt even need any hands on ..thats a rarity though.

The safety of you...
Is always thrown in the posts topics by tong endorsers...
I still manage to keep as safe as I can be without using them ..regardless of what you use, your playing with fire and there is a chance you will get burnt ..
Touch wood, I have never to this day been bitten..
I have had a very close call by a RBBS and a few EB's gave me a run for my money so to speak.
Still I have never felt the desire to own and never will tongs ,and if ever that day comes where I feel I need to do this ,my time as a catcher is over ..

As with what Baz said ,if WIRES was not the ones using and training them to have nets put everywhere ,then I take back what I said about them too ..
maybe WIRES could find out who is doing this destructive type of so called training ,and put a quick end to it ..


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## timpye1 (Dec 6, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> I am not totally a free handler ..I do use a snake hook /jigger(what ever you regard it as )
> it is not invasive on the snake it is simply to use to lift under the head slide back up the body and then it enables me to grab a hold of the tail end ..sometimes I still slide the hook back down towards the head end and use it as a counter balance, especially on a big ven ,keeps a nice healthy distance from the bitey end and you ..
> Other times I put the hook down, once I have the snake ..and of course the bag is just to put them in ..but have had 1 or 2 times where I was able to stick the bag over the opening of a hollow and coaxed the snake in with a few pokes from my hook and so didnt even need any hands on ..thats a rarity though.
> 
> ...


 
well said redbellybite.. we need more ethical people like yourself and sssnakeman( sorry if mispelt). couldnt agree with you more.


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## moosenoose (Dec 6, 2009)

I have concerns about non-herp people relocating snakes; my main one is they don't care for the animal in question and probably happier removing the netting off a dead snake, or tossing it net and all in the hope it'll remove itself (which it wouldn't ). Nah, I'm not happy about the "lightening of the load", this is just asking for trouble.


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## nuthn2do (Dec 6, 2009)

Wires has been an avid supporter of getting bird netting banned from places like bunnings and i see no where in that post that says they had anything to do with this practice of using the net to catch any sort of animals.


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## Hominid (Dec 6, 2009)

wires would never teach such a practice, ive done the reptile relocation caurse and its all jigger and hoop bags, they also run you through the procedure on how to remove netting from entagled herps, they are totally against netting and described it a disgusting metieral at the caurse, Cheers


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## mysnakesau (Dec 6, 2009)

Netting is dangerous for all animals. Birds, lizards, even young domestic pets get tangled up in them and can hurt themselves.

I still carry my tongs around with me but have still only ever used them twice. But the training I did was tailing free handed so I am not overly confident in using the tongs. I understand your point about being able to feel the snake. Sometimes I've tried pulling one out of a spot (with my hands), an even with the gentlest tug you can hear or feel their bones creak so I don't do it. I play the waiting game  The pythons are easy - tap their tails and out they come - so far it has worked for me anyway, and I am totally unafraid of being bitten which does help make my job that bit easier.


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## JupiterCreek (Dec 7, 2009)

The concept of having CFS or SES people trained to capture and relocate snakes is good in principle though. My stepson has a property near Eudunda and had two brown snakes that took up residence under the house. He rang the council who gave him the number for the local snake catcher. $180 per snake plus travelling time. As much as we all try to be proactive in conservation of our wildlife there are also economic considerations.


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## jessieJEALOUSY (Dec 7, 2009)

My mums boyfriends son did this course a few weeks back as he is training at one of the above mentioned stations, ill have to ask him about this whole "netting" technique. While i agree it doesnt sound good, moving the snake while in a net seems like a better option than what wacked out people sometimes do to snakes when they see them in their backyard...


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## redbellybite (Dec 7, 2009)

JupiterCreek said:


> The concept of having CFS or SES people trained to capture and relocate snakes is good in principle though. My stepson has a property near Eudunda and had two brown snakes that took up residence under the house. He rang the council who gave him the number for the local snake catcher. $180 per snake plus travelling time. As much as we all try to be proactive in conservation of our wildlife there are also economic considerations.


Not all of US snake catchers refuse to come if you dont have the cash up front ...I have a payment plan and as I would think other catchers would too ..so can understand the money side of things ,I also do a pensioner discount .


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## redbellybite (Dec 7, 2009)

jessieJEALOUSY said:


> My mums boyfriends son did this course a few weeks back as he is training at one of the above mentioned stations, ill have to ask him about this whole "netting" technique. While i agree it doesnt sound good, moving the snake while in a net seems like a better option than what wacked out people sometimes do to snakes when they see them in their backyard...


 Jessie get some fishing line ..wind it around your hand really really tight then wind it under your arm and around your neck and then back down under your other arm ,making sure it is really really cutting into you ,do that so you are so caught up in the fishing line that you are stuck till you get help ....might give you an idea what they feel


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## jessieJEALOUSY (Dec 7, 2009)

Its not that i dont get how they feel.
cause i do, and im not picking a fight.
but would you rather there be a chance that the snake might come out of it alive?
or that they get hack up by a shovel?


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## mouse_has_faith (Dec 7, 2009)

> or that they get hack up by a shovel?



Like my next-door neighbour did to a red-bellied. :evil:


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## redbellybite (Dec 7, 2009)

NETTING, SHOVELS, POLYPIPE, GUNS are not the answer EVER ...
imagine the outcry if that bird netting ,had a fluffy cute puppy or kitty tangled up in it so bad that the animal strangled itself ...
RSPCA would have a field day ...they rescue and spends thousands of dollars on a fluffy pup or kitten that has fallen down a sewer hole etc ...but dont outlaw this stuff that is absolutely cruel and barbaric ..
not only are snakes ,lizards caught but flying foxes birds etc also too ...

This stuff is the dry version of bloody shark nets ..that catch everything except most times why its put there ,the shark ..it is very cruel stuff ..no excuse to use it what so ever ..especially to endorse it as a snake catching implement ..then again there are numbnutted people out there that also still recommend those stinking glue traps too ..


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## MrsDragonLady (Dec 7, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> NETTING, SHOVELS, POLYPIPE, GUNS are not the answer EVER ...
> imagine the outcry if that bird netting ,had a fluffy cute puppy or kitty tangled up in it so bad that the animal strangled itself ...
> RSPCA would have a field day ...they rescue and spends thousands of dollars on a fluffy pup or kitten that has fallen down a sewer hole etc ...but dont outlaw this stuff that is absolutely cruel and barbaric ..
> not only are snakes ,lizards caught but flying foxes birds etc also too ...
> ...


 
I couldn't agree more.
Wild animals have enough to contend with from each other in their fight for survival in what we only think of as 'our world'.
Keep in mind that we come along bulldoze out their homes to build our houses, roads and shopping centres!!!
Surely we can try to live amicably with all wildlife and treat those we decide to remove from our backyards (their home) with respect.
I will add re the cost of a getting in a snake catcher/relocater - How much did you pay to make your home comfortable eg gardens, sundeck, swimming pool now compare that with how much it costs to have a reptile properly removed from its environment for your benifit...
and how much do you pay for the mass extermination of insects, mice, rats etc from their home - in or around your home!!!
Having said that I now stand ready to be shot down in flames by all those whose feelings I have hurt :evil:


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## petersteel (Dec 16, 2009)

*reply*

that was nice to read this thread that was really nice that i ever read... that was great...


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## -Peter (Dec 16, 2009)




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## ozianimals (Dec 16, 2009)

Kyro said:


> Even better idea why don't some of you people that know what your doing regarding vens approach these groups as a volunteer & offer to train people that are interested or offer your own services free of charge. After all what your doing isn't that different to all the other volunteers that put in their own time & money to care for native wildlife. Fair enough there is a risk factor, there is with a lot of animals but people still do it because they care.


 Have done so but as not in the area it was too much for them. To train someone for this you would need to be accredited by the governing bodies and snake capture and release services in NSW are free as they are done through groups such as Sydney Wildlife, Wildlife ARC and WIRES.


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## scutatus (Dec 21, 2009)

Hello All,
I am the WIRES reptile team team leader for central/eastern NSW. I can 100% assure you all that in non of our reptile handling courses do we support or condone capturing *any* reptile using *any* methods that may be detrimental to the animal in question and we certainly do not teach these methods. Earlier in 2009 we reported articles posted by various individual proponents of catching snakes using nylon monofilament netting to the RSPCA. As a team we stand together and unanimously condemn this completely cruel and dispicable practice. A lot has been written about the organisation of which i am part, I can only comment from years of personal experience of course, but i can say that we do not teach anyone to employ unethical methods to capture and contain any animals. I am open to take questions or comments on this or any other matter relating to WIRES reptile handling activities. Please direct your questions to [email protected] If i can't answer them personally I will forward them to somebody that can. Our team consists of a large number of highly experienced individuals and we have access to the knowledge of other valuable sources of information and advice as well as veterinary assistance. We are in the business of conserving our native reptiles (indeed all australian native fauna) and we need all the allays we can get in this pursuit. 
I hope this helps to clear up any uncertainties about the work we do, and i hope you all have a wonderful holiday season and a great 2010.
Gary Pattinson.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks Gary, was hoping someone from wires would comment on this.
It's good to hear you and the group dont condone the use of birdnetting.


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## snakehandler (Dec 21, 2009)

I dont think any responsible person would condone such methods of snake catching. It would be interesting to know who was the instructors in this "course" that was conducted.....as far as I know no-one teaches this!


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## MatE (Dec 21, 2009)

Wow people get paid to remove snakes,ill have to tell my mate who is a wires snake remover from my area lol.He gets called out all the time never charges a cent.He has never been taught this rather insane method.I had a carpet a few weeks ago get caught in netting in the neighbours yard,talk about a hand full.Everytime it moved it tangled itself up again.Imagine trying to do that knowing you could die from the experience.


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## redbellybite (Dec 21, 2009)

ssssnakeman said:


> Thanks Gary, was hoping someone from wires would comment on this.
> It's good to hear you and the group dont condone the use of birdnetting.


Add me to that as well ....


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## scutatus (Dec 21, 2009)

snakehandler said:


> I dont think any responsible person would condone such methods of snake catching. It would be interesting to know who was the instructors in this "course" that was conducted.....as far as I know no-one teaches this!


 I thoroughly agree snakehandler, there are severe animal welfare issues associated with teaching those methods and I would have no problem whatsoever in reporting the individuals responsible for it.


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## beatlloydy (Dec 21, 2009)

This is unrelated to the current topic but it is a question about bird netting. I didnt realise it was so bad. I was thinking of using it to cover the top of a pit. The idea was to protect hatchling turtles from birds.

Is this safe to use in this instance? It would be highly unlikely that a snake would try and get in. It will sit approx 1.5 m off the ground.


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## scutatus (Dec 21, 2009)

beatlloydy said:


> This is unrelated to the current topic but it is a question about bird netting. I didnt realise it was so bad. I was thinking of using it to cover the top of a pit. The idea was to protect hatchling turtles from birds.
> 
> Is this safe to use in this instance? It would be highly unlikely that a snake would try and get in. It will sit approx 1.5 m off the ground.


 I would advise against it, preferably use something more solid and less likely to ensnare our scaly mates. Maybe even a wire mesh of similar guage to the stuff we make the lighting cages from. That stuff would definitely be far more reptile friendly.
Gazza


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## Casey (Dec 21, 2009)

If you use a wire mesh to cover an outdoor pit use the mouse wire sized one....do not use chicken wire or the netting. Around here we get a lot of snakes caught in chicken wire, awful stuff to try and get a snake out of.


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## JasonL (Dec 22, 2009)

Funny enough, I read this thread yesterday and it was the first time it was bought to my attention of this practice used by the fire brigade.... then last night a mate called over and was telling me that one of his friends from Campbelltown had two brown snakes at his place and the Fire Brigade came to get them out, the snakes had gone down holes in the ground, and the netting was placed over the holes and the person was told to call when / if they got caught in it.... which was done when the first one was caught and it was taken away / cut out and released, but the home owner went away for the weekend and came back to a another, though this time dead, EB in the net...


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## redbellybite (Dec 22, 2009)

JasonL said:


> Funny enough, I read this thread yesterday and it was the first time it was bought to my attention of this practice used by the fire brigade.... then last night a mate called over and was telling me that one of his friends from Campbelltown had two brown snakes at his place and the Fire Brigade came to get them out, the snakes had gone down holes in the ground, and the netting was placed over the holes and the person was told to call when / if they got caught in it.... which was done when the first one was caught and it was taken away / cut out and released, but the home owner went away for the weekend and came back to a another, though this time dead, EB in the net...


wonder who TRAINED the fireys to do this practice ? ....is it possible for WIRES to get in touch with this mob and set them straight ,that using netting is not the answer..:evil:


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## Poggle (Dec 22, 2009)

i agree with everyones opinions on that damn netting. and also a thanks for gary replying to this topic. netting in my opinion can only cause harm. my first ever callout yrs ago was to get a coperhead out of some bird netting a bloke had thrown over the snake. took me bout 30 mins to gently as possible remove the netting with out damaging scales. Although alot were still already damaged. I would strongly appose and stand again this ever being used for trainging, as someone who has seen the problems it causes. I believe that only competenly trained people should handle snakes ESPECIALLY ELAPIDS and be able to do so with the upmost confidence in their selves and not their equiptment.


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## scutatus (Dec 22, 2009)

Guys, with regard to the Campbelltown individual, we are aware of his activities, I am not sure what my position is as far as naming him is concerned. All i can say is that he is a member of Macarthur reptile society and he openly advertises and advocates the use of this cruel method of trapping on their website. This is open for public viewing and i advise everyone to write emails to the moderators of their site to have this blatantly cruel content removed. Check out the link to this woeful practice. Macarthur Reptile Society :: Online Reptile Network
If enough people write in to them, we can hopefully have it removed.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 22, 2009)

Unfortunatly bird netting is well known as a snake trap and farmers 
and horse people ect have been using it for a while now.
Quite possibly the firemen were not taught this by the courses they did.
They may have just picked it up from local knowledge.
That link is crazy Gazza
http://www.macherps.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=2899
Cheers
Cant believe he is using sticky traps as well for snakes....


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