# Appropriate course of action...



## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I went and picked up my trio of maculosa tonight, from the airport. Got in the car, opened the first bag...great, 2 big healthy female macs. Open the 2nd bag...1 pathetically unhealthy male. Backbone is showing, his scales are all dry...very skinny. He's not just a youngun...his head is pretty big for a mac, he is just unhealthy.

Now...these snakes came from down south...I've sent the guy an email and an SMS message, and if he doesn't reply I will call him tomorrow. I'm going to ask for 1/3rd of the money to be deposited back into my account, and if he wants the snake back he can pay for the hour long trip to and from the airport, and for freight too.

Reckon this is fair?


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## BROWNS (Mar 26, 2004)

Sounds fair i guess!


Did the guy tell you they were all in good condition?


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Some photos...


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

BROWNS said:


> Sounds fair i guess!
> 
> 
> Did the guy tell you they were all in good condition?



Yep, said they were healthy adults...


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

Whats a bet he has flagulence or something like it!!!Sorry to hear.


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## BROWNS (Mar 26, 2004)

Sure is looking sad.

Almost makes you wonder if sending it back will be of any good to the snake if the guy let it get to that stage.

Does it have any scars or anything that might indicate it is wc?


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Nope, no scars or anything, I doubt it's wild caught.


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## womas4me (Mar 26, 2004)

Just curious if it will feed. If so worm it and feed it up and then you have a nice snake. Maybe a win then if nothing else is wrong with it.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Yes, I don't doubt that it will feed, and that I could get it healthy with money and time, but I wanted to breed these snakes and this guy needs a lot of attention...


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## womas4me (Mar 26, 2004)

Do you get cheap mice over there. Curious as east prices seem double what i pay. Also understand your point.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I buy my mice from SA - it's quite expensive here.


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## womas4me (Mar 26, 2004)

I sell bulk mice ( 100 ) in 6 sizes and feel i would be competitive but dont know the prices.


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

Yeah go on mate defrost some food and give him a go.Then let us know if he fed or not.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I'll wait and see what the guy wants to do first.


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## JunglePython (Mar 26, 2004)

I would definately quarrantine those animals for an extended period.
I think it would be worth doing a feacal test. I imagine it may be loaded with nasties.

You could just go ahead and give them a course of Flagyl, Panacur and Droncit.

But from the looks of this animal and the fact that it was meant to be an adult it seems you have bought from a loser.

I would be very worried about the aninmals harbouring other illnesses.

Cheers

Luke


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## ozpythons (Mar 26, 2004)

*Poor little fella!*

What type of TOOL would send a python in that poor condition?I can only imagine it takes time for an animal to get in that state.


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## ad (Mar 26, 2004)

Hi sxereturn
That is the saddest looking snake Ive ever seen, dont send it back, not to that keeper.
It would be kinder to euthanize it.
It would be better to take it on and nurse it back to some condition, just for the snake - bugger your breeding projects etc. that animal would never breed this season. It needs help, it wont get that sending it back to someone who would let it get to that condition let alone send it in that condition.
Very Sad!
ad


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Was just on the phone...and knowing my luck my phone went flat. Trying to get on to him again...


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

For the ex-owner who is coming to check these photos out. I circled a few things just so you wouldn't miss them. I'm sure you can see all the dry scales yourself...


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## NCHERPS (Mar 26, 2004)

You don't need to put up pictures to show the ex-owner the state of the snake!
After all he sent him to you, he knows what the condition of him was, and should compensate you for it.
I agree with Ad hold onto him, and ask for compensation, going back to a owner that dosen't care will only be a death sentence.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Photos = evidence, and so he can't say "There's nothing wrong with the snake".


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## varanus (Mar 26, 2004)

He's so emaciated. How can anybody sell an animal like that and say it's in good condition? Let alone adding the stress of freight. I think the herper who is responsible should reconsider keeping reptiles if he thinks that is in good condition.
Don't return him to the seller. Sounds fair to claim back 1/3rd of the costs, it's going to take alot of dedication and vet bills to pay for his rehabilitation. That's if he survives. Not to mention tests done on the the other two females.
Good luck.


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## Already_Gone (Mar 26, 2004)

That is so sad... and mean. I wouldnt hesitate asking for my money back!!! Please dont send him away... if he makes it through this with your help you would have almost definatly saved his life. Make him better... I totally agree with ad... he wont breed this season but if you make him better, it will all the more rewarding when he does!!!


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## snakehunter (Mar 26, 2004)

Did you see any pics of him before you bought it?


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Nope, didn't see pics.


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## snakehunter (Mar 26, 2004)

that is your first mistake, still u shouldnt have to pay full price for something that is clearly in a bad state


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## NoOne (Mar 26, 2004)

Have you tried to feed him yet? I'd get some food into him asap and then keep feeding him quite heavily over the next month or so, you would be surprised what a few quick feeds can do, if you can do that theres a good chance he will breed this year, macs are pretty randy buggers.

I would ask for some money back for sure, it's not right selling snakes like that unless the buyer knows.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

If it has internal parasites, it'll bring the food back up, which it probably doesn't have the strength to deal with. Have to get down the Clayton Knight and get a faecal check and probably a Flagyl shot.


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## Farkurnell (Mar 26, 2004)

Is the bloke you got him from in Sydney?


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## NoOne (Mar 26, 2004)

i would honestly try him on a small feed first, if he has internal parasites doesn't mean he will reguritate, and if he does it won't hurt him, it's up to you but do something soon as you can.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I've had a female carpet who had internal parasites (flagelates or however you spell it). It basically rendered her guts useless, she'd bring up her feed after 2-3 days. She had a course of Flagyl, but was too far gone, and ended up choking to death whilst regurgitating a quail.

I'm going to get him healthy again, just going to take it to the vet (hour away) for a fecal sample first.


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## Farkurnell (Mar 26, 2004)

Having just had a brief conversation with sxereturn it appears we both have sick snakes from the same bloke. I got a male Stimsoni off him and it has slowly deteriorated in the couple of months I've had him. I recently took him to a Vet and he is being treated for flagelates but he's not responding too well. He has incredibly low muscle tone and can barely move the back half of his body around. I have to take him to the Vet again on Monday for more tests. A faecal exam came back negative and the Vet is scratching her head wondering what's wrong and she's one of the best herp vets in Australia.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Some PM's I have received about this...not naming any names.

HI Jonno, 
That is one sad mac, very disappointing Im sure. 
I cant believe someone would send a snake in that condition. 
Anyway if you are looking for male let me know. 
Mine is in 1000% better conditin than that and looks breeding size to me. 
He is as big as my childrens that bred last year, I know macs need to be a bit bigger than childrens but If I dont sell him I will find a female for him this season. He will be 3 yo by the breeding season. $200 
Eats anything offered and as docile as - very friendly 
hope you get the other one sorted though! 
Cheers


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

Another PM -

Hi sxe, 

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate deal. Yes demand 1/3 of the money you paid. If he fails to take any responsibility, ignores your calls and emails etc then expose his sorry backside. Everyone needs to be warned about these types of people. Not only to buy from but to sell to as well, it's obvious his methods of herpetology are pathetic. 

Recon there should be a public blacklist huh. 

Good luck. 

Regards,


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## sarahbell (Mar 26, 2004)

that would have to be the most unhealthy snake i have ever seen and the sell should not have sold it in that condition and if they wonted to get rid of it that badly should have stated that it was in very poor condition


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## soulweaver (Mar 26, 2004)

sxereturn said:


> I'll wait and see what the guy wants to do first.



i would still try and feed him first, in the end if he does go back at least you have some piece of mind knowing that he at least good some good attention.

if he goes home sad to say he will probably die


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I won't be sending him back. It's obvious this isn't a one off thing...I won't sentence him to death, I just want my money back so I can purchase a snake of someone who isn't a prick.


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

I understand you are not happy with what has happened but I think it is wrong to post PM that is why they are PRIVATE MESSAGES.Especially considering those are not of an abusive matter that need attention.Just my opinion don't take it the wrong way.I DO think you should name this person who has a very poor collection of herps.


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## sxereturn (Mar 26, 2004)

I didn't post the names of the people who sent me the PM's...

If he does the right thing by me, I won't name him. If he continues on the path he is on, I will rat him out on every website I can find. I've also spoken to NSW NPWS and Department of Fair Trading, both of which are on my side.

I'm going to give him 2 options.

1 - He refunds 1/3rd of my money ($200) right now.
2 - I take the animal to Clayton Knight, the best, most respected reptile vet in Brisbane, and get him to write up a report on the condition of the animal to prove that he is very unhealthy, and then have him refund me my $200 + the vet bills.

If he refuses to refund my money, I'll name him, plus take legal action.


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## zoe (Mar 26, 2004)

i think he should be named anyway. help to stop him from selling more of these animals to people who are paying good money for a healthy one.


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## bigguy (Mar 26, 2004)

Sxereturn, I agree that its not the healthiest mac I have every seen. Shame on the bloke for sending such a crappy animal without telling you first.

As for your options you really only have two.

One. Return snake for full refund and have him pay freight and permit costs.

Two. Keep it and try to correct whatevers wrong with it. Risky at the least.

Your third option is just not on. You cant keep it, expect a full refund and then have him pay vet bills. Once he has refunded it is his snake again and must be returned.

If you bought a broken TV from a shop their not going to give you a refund, let you keep it and then pay for its repairs. Come one now, you would not have a legal leg to stand on anywhere in the country.

My advise, return it and the girls if you think they are infected as well and name the person so others are not burnt as well.


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## Already_Gone (Mar 26, 2004)

keep it... and ask for half of what it cost back... it is skinny so really you only got half a snake... dont send him away...


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## soulweaver (Mar 26, 2004)

i would tend to agree with bigguy that you may not be able to get money back and keep the sanke cos that means he has lost everything. but there is a chance that it may work in your favor and he might give you the money and not want it back because he think's it is a gonner.

in the event he wants it back and u get your money back you maybe able to get the department to remove the animal from his care beacuse of neglect and then get the animal back through the department...............you need to get in touch with this guy me thinks


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## sxereturn (Mar 27, 2004)

bigguy said:


> If you bought a broken TV from a shop their not going to give you a refund, let you keep it and then pay for its repairs. Come one now, you would not have a legal leg to stand on anywhere in the country.



If you bought the TV as a perfectly good one that worked, then you would have a leg to stand on.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 27, 2004)

Sorry I'm with big guy here, get a refund, return the TV, Have the TV repaired or use your repairer and have the bills paid by the supplier. BUT all 3 , I think not


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## sxereturn (Mar 27, 2004)

The reason I said the whole vet bill thing, was because he didn't/doesn't believe the animal is unhealthy. It was more like a gamble...the vet could give the animal the all clear (which it won't) and he wouldn't have to pay anything.

Still no word from him.


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## Nicole (Mar 27, 2004)

Yep, I agree with bigguy and africa.
I hope it gets sorted out for you soon with minimum fuss sxe, and I hope wherever he ends up that the little snake improves.


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## womas4me (Mar 27, 2004)

Shouldn't every snake regardless of newly purchased or long time pet get wormed regularly anyhow. For an animal to die of parasites i think it would have to have not been wormed for some time. Fecal smear at purchase and repeated smears until clear


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## AGAMIDAE (Mar 27, 2004)

I hate people like that, that snake should have been given to you for free with the other two, how can anyone charge for that poor snake.... :evil:


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## Artie (Mar 27, 2004)

Who sold the snake to you :?: 
Still reckon you should tell Sxereturn, so no one else gets sucked in.


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## AGAMIDAE (Mar 27, 2004)

well i hope its not from anyone off this site...because that would really suck


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## Greebo (Mar 27, 2004)

I would like to know this persons name too. That way I can make sure never to buy from him.
If you merely state "I bought this snake from this person" and let everyone make their own decision it can not be labeled slander.


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## sxereturn (Mar 27, 2004)

One of the big ones is feeding right now beside me. Injected .12mL of Worm Rid into the mouse (snake was 340 grams...slight underdose just to be on the safe side). The other big one didn't seem interested, maybe because of the Worm Rid. About to try the little tyke on a fuzzy mouse to see if he feeds.


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## sxereturn (Mar 27, 2004)

Just tried to feed the dodgy snake a fuzzy/weaner mouse (thawed). It didn't look interested at all...

He raises his head off the ground, and his head/neck shakes back and forward? Not violently, more like a quick sway...looks pretty bad...

One of the two others took a feed. Gave them a soak in warm water, no visible mites.


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## Artie (Mar 27, 2004)

That really is very sad, poor little bugga.


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## Farkurnell (Mar 27, 2004)

Sounds like what my one started out doing.


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## sxereturn (Mar 27, 2004)

Yeah, taking them all to see Clayton Knight on Tuesday or Wednesday


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## AGAMIDAE (Mar 28, 2004)

I would keep all 3 snake away from the rest of your collection and take all 3 snakes to Clayton and wash your hands everytime you handle them or their caging


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## Miss_Magickal (Apr 1, 2004)

Sxe.............i would normally agree with putting this persons name on the site and there is also another person on this forum who can name them....but you choose not to until you have it sorted out.........it is good to see someone who will give someone a second chance even if they have stuffed up badly..........i also believe that people should be warned about breeders like this...............but not until after all the buisness has been fixed......................maybe this whole thing might give the breeder a wake up call and hence become a better breeder...........who knows what might happen................

good luck with everything


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## rodentrancher (Apr 2, 2004)

Hey Jonno, I thought the rule of thumb was, that you should see the snakes b4 u buy them??? Also see feeding, crap, and shedding records. Hey I'm just a wannabee Murray Darling owner here hey? Dave n I have decided to leave getting our MD till about this time next year. We don't have the time or habitat to get organised as yet. We are shed dwellers don't forget? Cheers Cheryl


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## Shamus (Apr 2, 2004)

How did you go sxe??


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## 1dragonett (Apr 8, 2004)

Yeah, how's the poor little mite? And did the seller come through?


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## sxereturn (Apr 8, 2004)

The guy hasn't been to co-operative. The snake is on the mend. Took him to see Clayton Knight (Brisbanes top reptile vet). He was riddled with Flagelates. He was administered some Flagyl orally. I have to try him on a pinkie on Monday, and then give him his second dose of Flagyl in a fortnight. I saw him drinking this afternoon too.

As for old mate who sold it too me, I have photos + vet report. If he doesn't follow this and Farkurnell's deals up, I'll take it to Small Claims.


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## Greebo (Apr 8, 2004)

I'm not surprised. Any guy that would let a snake get in that condition obviously has no conscience.
I hope the little fella pulls through for ya.


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## 1dragonett (Apr 8, 2004)

fingers crossed!!!!!!! Hope the seller gets a nasty case of boils on his butt!!!!


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