# Gouldii Flavirufus



## blakehose (May 25, 2011)

G'day all,

The reason I make this thread is that I am interested in how other Gouldii owners have faired in taming their monitors. I've owned mine now for around 7-8months and have done everything by the book when it comes to building their trust and eventually making them amendable to handling, though it has brought me little success! 
I do understand they are more skittish of nature than many other species, and know others whom have had a similar situation with their animals, leading me to believe it's not uncommon with the species.

And no, i'm not one of those people who just want to hold their animals 24/7 and give them kisses and cuddles, though it could make things such as a trip to the vet a little bit easier in future.

So feel free to share your experience and any ideas on what could help to hopefully make a bit of progress...

Cheers


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## SamNabz (May 25, 2011)

Hey Blake, 

You say you have done it '_by the book_' but what does this entail?

The reason I ask is different books provide different information, so maybe you will get a better set of responses if you posted the method you've been using so far.


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## blakehose (May 25, 2011)

Ha, well in saying that, I haven't used a book at all. What I was trying to get at was that I have adhered to the advice of people such as crocdoc since obtaining the animal using their methods in an attempt to calm it's nerves. 
In doing so, i've let the animal make all of the choices, not once have I attempted to handle it since purchase. I started off when it was younger by hand feeding it it's inverts and it would happily take them from me at a very early stage. It then progressed to crawl up my arm to grab it's food, running back and forth to do this until it was content! 
It was readily doing so from when it was about 2-3months of age, though since is not willing to make any further advances and this is the stage i'm sort of stuck at... Being older now too, I think it has gained confidence in it's physical ability and doesn't mind giving me the odd tail whip ha. It readily sits out all day lazing about in the enclosure and is far from bothered when I enter the room, though if you get too close without food, see you later!


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## monitordude (May 25, 2011)

i thought you were selling him??


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## blakehose (May 25, 2011)

monitordude said:


> i thought you were selling him??



I've tried, but with the suprising lack of interest I thought I may aswell continue to try whilst it's still with me... But yes, it is still for sale.


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## saximus (May 25, 2011)

How much? How big is it?


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## monitordude (May 25, 2011)

theres adds on here and on RDU


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## crocdoc (May 26, 2011)

blakehose said:


> I've owned mine now for around 7-8months and have done everything by the book when it comes to building their trust and eventually making them amendable to handling, though it has brought me little success!


 It sounds like everything is on track regarding your monitor getting used to you. If you were at this stage and the monitor was a few years old that would be a different story, but at 8 months it sounds like it's acting normally. It's all about time and habituation.


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## blakehose (May 26, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> It sounds like everything is on track regarding your monitor getting used to you. If you were at this stage and the monitor was a few years old that would be a different story, but at 8 months it sounds like it's acting normally. It's all about time and habituation.



Cheers for the reply Crocdoc. It's definitely a big game of patience with varanus! 
In saying that, today it actually made a bit of progress. When I opened it's enclosure it came out and crawled onto my jumper up onto my back. Not wanting to grab at it, I just let it be, and after about 5minutes if sitting there he decided to head back home. Stoked!


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## crocdoc (May 26, 2011)

Just keep letting it do that and make sure nothing happens to frighten it when it's out of the enclosure and it'll continue to get bolder and bolder. Now that it's tried that once, it will likely do it again with little hesitation. Progress with monitors seems to be in pulses. They make a big change one day and then plateau for a while, then make another big change.


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## blakehose (May 27, 2011)

crocdoc said:


> Just keep letting it do that and make sure nothing happens to frighten it when it's out of the enclosure and it'll continue to get bolder and bolder. Now that it's tried that once, it will likely do it again with little hesitation. Progress with monitors seems to be in pulses. They make a big change one day and then plateau for a while, then make another big change.


 
Yeah I can definitely see that pattern being evident. I'll try again today with a rat as some enticement and see how things go!
Edit: You were spot on Crocdoc. It was willing to do the exact same thing today, and with less hesitation... on the improve


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## crocdoc (May 27, 2011)

Excellent. Keep reinforcing that behaviour until the next leap to a higher plateau.


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## blakehose (May 27, 2011)

Thanks alot for the help. I'll keep posting updates as progress is made


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## richardsc (Jun 1, 2011)

thats it,dont forget what they are capable of though,even tame ones,especially if they think something may be food or smell food on you,i find the tame ones that arent scared of you anymore the ones to be more wary of,usually food oriented though,sounds like it is becoming quite comfortable with you

if only it was a female


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah they can be quite the handfull when the smell of a meal is in the air... Physically it has developed so much in the past month or two. Claws are now really large relative to body size, and these Sandies have some damn powerfull digging legs!


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## richardsc (Jun 1, 2011)

how big is he now blake,do u have any recent pics,they are amazingly powerful animals,especially big adult males


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

Ah at a guess I would say a little under 2ft, tail and all. I'll take a couple of snaps tonight and put them up after that. 
Amazingly powerful is right, I still can't believe how they just stand on their back legs holding the rest of their body just off the ground. For power to weight, they would have to be right up there!
Edit: Just did a rough measurement. Sits at around 70cm, tail tip to snout.

Here's a few photos. These are a month or two ago, so a little old but he's hiding away digesting at the moment! I'm a bit reluctant to upload these as they take away from the true colours of the animal. Once more progress is made i'll get it outside and get some good ones!


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## saximus (Jun 1, 2011)

Gah he's beautiful. Why are you doing this to me Blake


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

saximus said:


> Gah he's beautiful. Why are you doing this to me Blake


 
It's all part of my grand plan  
There's a few things i'll be willing to swap for... If interested, PM me!


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## Torah (Jun 1, 2011)

So ready to be flamed !

But some of you know I got a tiny monitor (4month old O.J) about a week maybe two ago and hes great , already comes up and takes crickets out of my hand. Ive only handled him once (putting him from chinese container to click-clack thingy)..And he didnt seem worried at all , was rubbing the sand off his face onto me etc.. 

In saying that I wonder could it just come down to the individual monitor like it does pythons ???


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## saximus (Jun 1, 2011)

Yours is an ackie though isn't it Torah?
They're a bit "special" in the monitor world as they seem to calm down much more easily than virtually any others


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

Torah said:


> So ready to be flamed !
> 
> But some of you know I got a tiny monitor (4month old O.J) about a week maybe two ago and hes great , already comes up and takes crickets out of my hand. Ive only handled him once (putting him from chinese container to click-clack thingy)..And he didnt seem worried at all , was rubbing the sand off his face onto me etc..
> 
> In saying that I wonder could it just come down to the individual monitor like it does pythons ???


 
Torah, some monitors will take to handling better than others, like pythons. Ackies are generally a little more amendable to handling than alot of other species. My Gouldii did the same thing though when being transferred, it also showed little fear about being moved, though once it got a chance to warm up, it kicked into gear! What i'm saying is that if you try to handle the monitor now, it will probably play out a little differently, as now it is settled a bit more and fully alert of it's new surroundings. Don't be fooled! And make sure you remain patient with it, as it is well worth it in the end.


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## Torah (Jun 1, 2011)

yes it is an ackie Saximus .....
sorry should have mentioned that ..... I didnt know they seemed to calm down much more easily than any others . I chose well for me then lol



blakehose said:


> Torah, some monitors will take to handling better than others, like pythons. Ackies are generally a little more amendable to handling than alot of other species. My Gouldii did the same thing though when being transferred, it also showed little fear about being moved, though once it got a chance to warm up, it kicked into gear! What i'm saying is that if you try to handle the monitor now, it will probably play out a little differently, as now it is settled a bit more and fully alert of it's new surroundings. Don't be fooled! And make sure you remain patient with it, as it is well worth it in the end.


 
 now im worried lol ....narr ill give him another week and then Im having a cuddle ! Ill let you all know how this handling goes ...


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

Torah said:


> yes it is an ackie Saximus .....
> sorry should have mentioned that ..... I didnt know they seemed to calm down much more easily than any others . I chose well for me then lol
> now im worried lol ....narr ill give him another week and then Im having a cuddle ! Ill let you all know how this handling goes ...


 
Trying to give new monitors a 'cuddle' is never a great idea. Firstly let it get used to you being around and keep hand feeding until it is much more comfortable in its new home. If you try to dictate terms and go grabbing at it, you will lose its trust and progress will go backwards. Let it make the moves, and its trust will build in you! I've had mine for 7months and I am yet to handle it.


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## richardsc (Jun 1, 2011)

are u sure its a male blake,it looks tiny compared to my 2 males,i guess its yearling and has to fill out,but for 70 cm length males normale start to tank out more,ill have to put a pic up of my big male with the female i used to have to show u what i mean


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

richardsc said:


> are u sure its a male blake,it looks tiny compared to my 2 males,i guess its yearling and has to fill out,but for 70 cm length males normale start to tank out more,ill have to put a pic up of my big male with the female i used to have to show u what i mean



I'm not sure of sex yet Richard, I just tend to refer to it as a 'he' sometimes.. So it could well be a 'she'!
A photo would be great to show the comparison of the two though.


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## richardsc (Jun 1, 2011)

heres a pic of my 2 male flavies with a large gouldi gouldi/flavie gouldi cross,id say gouldi,note dark color and spots in back pattern,plus more banded appearing tail,the 2nd pic is of a slightly smaller male flavie that the previous owner of mine also had,i think it was 2 there and just over a metre long,i have a pic of my biggest male with the female flavie on his back and she looked tiny in comparison,not as solid,head alot smaller ect,cant find the pic though,but will check on my lappy,as i think its on there,but the big one in the 2nd pic by it self was a hatchy when the old female i had was quite a few years old,and he quickly outgrew her,think i have a pic somewhere of him trying to mate my female to,he made her look like a ridgey,and she was at least 7 years old


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

That's very interesting mate. I'll have to get a couple of good current pictures for you to have a look at soon. I can't enlarge those pictures you've attached so it is a little harder to tell, but i'm definitely hearing you about the size difference. I'm loving hearing about all this, I haven't really had too much to do with many other Flavi/Gouldii keepers.


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## reptilian1924 (Jun 1, 2011)

*Size difference between adult male and female Sand Monitors.*

View attachment 203237
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Here are some photos of what use to be my 5 adult Desert Sand Monitors- Varanus Gouldii Flavirufus, these are all pure un-related Desert Sand Monitor's, that were collected on permit from the wild in Alice Springs NT, between February 2001 and March 2002.

Here you can see the males a much more bigger in size and weight compared to the females, the photo where you see 1 adult Desert Sand Monitor, was one of my 3 adult females l use to have has part of my breeding program.

You can also see a male Sandie mating with one of the female Sandie's, and see the size difference between the 2 of them.


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## richardsc (Jun 1, 2011)

thanks les,heres another pic les took of his young male trying to mate the older female,as you can see the male on top is quite young there,im not sure on the females age but would assume at least 7


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## blakehose (Jun 1, 2011)

They're some nice Flavis! I'd like to have the space, time and money for 5 of them.. but unfortunately I don't!
There really is a massive difference between the Male and Female animals, this has got me thinking now! 
Thanks for the pictures guys, they're great!


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## reptilian1924 (Jun 1, 2011)

richardsc said:


> View attachment 203239
> 
> thanks les,heres another pic les took of his young male trying to mate the older female,as you can see the male on top is quite young there,im not sure on the females age but would assume at least 7


 
This female you see here mating with what was one of my 3 adult male Desert Sand Monitor's, l got her on permit from the wild in March 2002, and she would have been roughly around 3 years old in early 2002, the male trying to mate with the female was born in captivity in August 2006 at the Alice Springs Reptile Centre, and l got it in September 1 month later 2006.


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## richardsc (Jun 2, 2011)

so roughly 10 and a half years old in that pic with the male les,and him around 3


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## jinjajoe (Jun 2, 2011)

Great info Les & Richard !!! a topic that is clearly dear to you both......


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## richardsc (Jun 2, 2011)

so roughly 10 and a half years old in that pic with the male les,and him around 3


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## reptilian1924 (Jun 3, 2011)

jinjajoe said:


> Great info Les & Richard !!! a topic that is clearly dear to you both......


Joe, lt shaw is great information in regards to Sand Monitors, and you are spot on that this topic is clearly dear to Richard and myself Les, we both really do love Sand Monitors especially the true desert phase Varanus Gouldii Flavirufus, that l use to keep and breed between early 2001 and late 2009.



richardsc said:


> so roughly 10 and a half years old in that pic with the male les,and him around 3


Richard, l would say the female flavi in the photo is roughly around 10 and half years old, and the male flavi trying to mate with her was 3 years old.


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## crocdoc (Jun 3, 2011)

richardsc said:


> thanks les,heres another pic les took of his young male trying to mate the older female


 I'm happy to see someone else posting photos of their monitors mating (or trying to mate) on the floor of their living area!


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## saximus (Jun 3, 2011)

Haha maybe you guys have stumbled on a secret special spot where the mood is just right


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## blakehose (Jun 3, 2011)

This is all great information guys, thanks alot for sharing!


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## reptilian1924 (Jun 3, 2011)

View attachment 203630
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Here you can see in the photo on the right 2 adult male Desert Sand Monitors trying to mate together, hope these 2 have not turned to being gay hahaha, the photo in the middle you can see 1 male trying to mate with 1 female, the photo on the left you can see a family of 5 adult Desert Sand Monitors l use to keep and breed, here there is 3 females and 2 males.


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## blakehose (Jun 3, 2011)

That's alot of Sandies! The difference in sex is really noticeable when you have them together to compare like that.
Did you ever have any issues with keeping them all together?


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## reptilian1924 (Jun 3, 2011)

blakehose said:


> That's alot of Sandies! The difference in sex is really noticeable when you have them together to compare like that.
> Did you ever have any issues with keeping them all together?


Blake, Yes you can see the difference in sex when you have them together as a group like l did, l sure did have some issues with keeping this many together in a outdoor enclosure, l had to keep them all seperate from each other at feed time, or else one of the males would attack one of the females, by trying to pull the weaner rat out of their mouth, why they are trying to eat it whole just like Snakes do, sometimes l myself copped a serious bite from one of them, that required stitches that my local GP had to do, or l would go into a hospital emergency department and wait until they could see me, let me tell you these bites were so painfull and thats why l no-longer keep and breed Sand Monitors, but l sure do miss not having them here with me in my home, they were awesome to look at.


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## blakehose (Jun 3, 2011)

I love watching mine scoff down the rats and mice whole, it's something you only really think of snakes as doing initially. I can only imagine what it would be like if you were to feed them together, even with my single animal, it gets pretty lively when there is the smell of rodent in the air. It's like a switch is flicked inside them and bang, they're on!

Also it's good to hear a personal account of these bites/injuries, as people are generally a bit hesitant to admit bites from monitors I think. It really shows that even with very experienced keepers, they are very dangerous animals, and deserve alot of respect.


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