# Is australia behind in selling glass?



## GeckoRider (Oct 27, 2012)

Hey guys, 

Recently I've been watching videos on how to build enclosures most of the DIY videos I've found are from America. 

From what I've noticed they can buy large sheets of glass for around $10 from places like homedepot the same size here would cost me 6X as much.. why is it so expensive here also why dosnt bunnings sell glass... 

why is it so god damn hard for me to find glass.. cant even buy it online.. 

Does anyone else have this problem?


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 27, 2012)

You can't buy glass online as it's too risky to ship.


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

bunnings will never sell glass as it is to breakable and could a) cause injuries in untrained staff and customers b) the profit loss when it does get broken 

also glass isnt really that expensive if you know a guy in the trade or work in it , its just that businesses have overheads and have to make some profit to stay a float


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## Monitors_R_Us (Oct 27, 2012)

GeckoRider said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Recently I've been watching videos on how to build enclosures most of the DIY videos I've found are from America.
> 
> ...


Find a local glazier and make friends  but also quite a few people I know who build their own enclosures use thicker glass ( raises the price ) then what they need for the species being kept.

For say monitors i would use 5mm, beardies 4mm and so and so. When i see people using 5mm for say a hatchy gecko or dragon tank i would personally just use 3mm.


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## GeckoRider (Oct 27, 2012)

Good points but America has found ways around this.. just really wondering how glaziers can justify these prices when it can be made for much cheaper

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I have an old fish tank but it's 10mm so I have to get my brother in-law (He's used to be a glazier) to cut it


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

Monitors_R_Us said:


> Find a local glazier and make friends  but also quite a few people I know who build their own enclosures use thicker glass ( raises the price ) then what they need for the species being kept.
> 
> For say monitors i would use 5mm, beardies 4mm and so and so. When i see people using 5mm for say a hatchy gecko or dragon tank i would personally just use 3mm.



not necessarily correct , ive said this quite a bit on here , i was a glazier and with how easily 3mm float breaks i would never use it in any enclosure regardless of the inhabitant 

its the fact that in a sliding track system the edges are exposed which are the weakest point in glass if anything hits it from the outside with the slightest force its going to shatter and all fall inside the enclosure , this goes for any float glass really but obviously the thicker it is the harder to break 

the reason they can get away with using 3mm glass in windows is the simple fact the edges are held firmly and evenly plus covered over making the glass alot stronger than it is ever going to be in a sliding track system 

to solve this i would personally only use laminated glass in an enclosure for the fact that if anything hits it like a falling chair or any number of possibilities it may still break but will be held together unlike float which will go all over you animal possibly resulting in injuries


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## Monitors_R_Us (Oct 27, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> not necessarily correct , ive said this quite a bit on here , i was a glazier and with how easily 3mm float breaks i would never use it in any enclosure regardless of the inhabitant
> 
> its the fact that in a sliding track system the edges are exposed which are the weakest point in glass if anything hits it from the outside with the slightest force its going to shatter and all fall inside the enclosure , this goes for any float glass really but obviously the thicker it is the harder to break
> 
> ...


Well i guess this is each to their own but I have been keeping hatchys in enclosures made with 3mm glass for years with no problem.


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

because nothings hit then hard enough yet , keep them off ground level and it should be ok but just know that it is a fact that float glass will shatter to the inside of the enclosure if it is hit hard enough from the out side where as laminate will not


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## Monitors_R_Us (Oct 27, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> because nothings hit then hard enough yet , keep them off ground level and it should be ok but just know that it is a fact that float glass will shatter to the inside of the enclosure if it is hit hard enough from the out side where as laminate will not


 I do not know much about glass all that much as in construction wise but so you're saying as long as no force is hit through the edges it will not shatter ( i mean from general use obviously )? I guess i do take good care of my enclosures as to why I have never broken a 3mm yet .


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

no not just the edges , anywhere really but they are the weakest point and in most sliding track systems they are left uncovered which makes the whole piece alot more unstable than if it where set up like a window with all edges held firm even and covered over 

if something chips the edge , then a crack will easily form as well just another down fall with sliding track sytems

in nsw (maybe aus wide not sure) law anything at ground level (like those roof to floor windows)has to be made up of laminated glass for much the same reasons as ive stated here float glass is to weak and shatters so if a little kid was to roll into it with force or something was to happen it could end badly


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## Ratatouile (Oct 27, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> bunnings will never sell glass as it is to breakable and could a) cause injuries in untrained staff and customers b) the profit loss when it does get broken



Bunnings does sell glass panel but mainly for pool fencing. I called my local one but unfortunately they can't cut it to the size I require


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## BIGBANG (Oct 27, 2012)

i called a couple glaziers the other week looking to make a frog tank for my missus, the tank was gunna be 750Hx500Wx600D it was gunna cost me 300+ just for 4mm glass at one place, you can buy them a hell of alot cheaper already made off the net, and then i got a square meter price on 4 mm and there was $25 difference between glaziers, i dont know what people pa a SQ/m in melb but the told me up here it was $110 at one place and $85 at another


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## Reptilez123 (Oct 27, 2012)

My dad gets off cuts from a local glazier for free and since he use to work there he just cuts it to the shape he likes


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## Mitch_89 (Oct 27, 2012)

it cost me 100$ to do my coffee table hardend safty glass

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i figured that was cheap


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## BIGBANG (Oct 27, 2012)

Mitch_89 said:


> View attachment 268860
> it cost me 100$ to do my coffee table hardend safty glass
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...



is that normal glazier price or from a mate in the industry?


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

Ratatouile said:


> Bunnings does sell glass panel but mainly for pool fencing. I called my local one but unfortunately they can't cut it to the size I require
> 
> 
> that stuff is incredibly strong thats probably why they can sell it without to many breaks , i was talking about stuff like float glass and lam like your local glazier does , you know raw glass extremely sharp edges easily breakable if things go pear shaped with the handling of that glass it can sever arteries and do all sorts of damage , defiantly not something that should be handled by the general public and sold at bunnings


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## Cypher69 (Oct 27, 2012)

It's always best to tell the glazier what you'll be using the glass for. That way, they (the professionals) can recommend what thickness & type of glass to use.

Honestly though, in my experience of buying custom sized glass, I've never found it too expensive, even when I've asked to taper the edges or even drill holes in them.


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## buffcoat (Oct 27, 2012)

Glass is such a pita to cut. My parents replaced the windows in their house. I had my dad save me a few pieces so I could cut them to size. After talking to several people and finding out how much it would be to have a professional cut them to size, I decided on 3mm plexi. That's about $60 a sheet here and can be cut using a jig saw. Way cheaper in the long run.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2


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## thomasssss (Oct 27, 2012)

buffcoat said:


> Glass is such a pita to cut. My parents replaced the windows in their house. I had my dad save me a few pieces so I could cut them to size. After talking to several people and finding out how much it would be to have a professional cut them to size, I decided on 3mm plexi. That's about $60 a sheet here and can be cut using a jig saw. Way cheaper in the long run.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2


cutting glass isnt done the way alot of people think it is , its done with a tool that works by scratching a tiny line along where you want to cut this has to be done firmly and consistently in one long line otherwise you will just stuff it up then if its laminate the line has to be in the exact same spot on the other side theres a bit of a trick to getting that exactly right 

then you crack it with these plier thingys thats the part that should really be done by someone who knows what there doing with lam we used to just pour metho over the cut line after it was cracked on both sides give it a little wiggle to get it into the cut the set it on fire to melt the laminate worked well 

just out of curiosity what did most glaziers want to cut the glass ? it really only takes a few mins depending how much and what sizes


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## GeckoRider (Oct 27, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> cutting glass isnt done the way alot of people think it is , its done with a tool that works by scratching a tiny line along where you want to cut this has to be done firmly and consistently in one long line otherwise you will just stuff it up then if its laminate the line has to be in the exact same spot on the other side theres a bit of a trick to getting that exactly right
> 
> then you crack it with these plier thingys thats the part that should really be done by someone who knows what there doing with lam we used to just pour metho over the cut line after it was cracked on both sides give it a little wiggle to get it into the cut the set it on fire to melt the laminate worked well
> 
> just out of curiosity what did most glaziers want to cut the glass ? it really only takes a few mins depending how much and what sizes



I actually made my first glass cuts today, it was surprisingly easy, for 10mm glass anyway lol

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## buffcoat (Oct 27, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> cutting glass isnt done the way alot of people think it is , its done with a tool that works by scratching a tiny line along where you want to cut this has to be done firmly and consistently in one long line otherwise you will just stuff it up then if its laminate the line has to be in the exact same spot on the other side theres a bit of a trick to getting that exactly right
> 
> then you crack it with these plier thingys thats the part that should really be done by someone who knows what there doing with lam we used to just pour metho over the cut line after it was cracked on both sides give it a little wiggle to get it into the cut the set it on fire to melt the laminate worked well
> 
> just out of curiosity what did most glaziers want to cut the glass ? it really only takes a few mins depending how much and what sizes



About $12-15 a cut. I needed 6 cut. Worked out to be the same prices as the 3 mil plexi. I got the plexi, less headache, and I didn't need to buy "special" tools to cut it

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## Jacknifejimmy (Nov 1, 2012)

my local glazier is starting to get to know me and the price of glass for me has come down as a result, from $90 for my first build to $60 for the latest one, 5mm lam with polished edges and finger grooves. both builds are exactly the same dimentions.


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## mugsie (Nov 6, 2012)

Yeah, I am in america. I have no idea why glass is so expensive there. All those reply from other people saying that stores don't want to carry it because of cracks, damage, and people getting hurt is absolute hog wash. Is it possible that the Australia government put a extra tax on it? If it is that expensive in Australia, someone should start a business making it there. The company will be rich. I know when I go to a store called Lowes not only can I get glass there "cheap" what you call it, but they will cut it to the size that you need for free. Home Depot does not cut glass for you. So I don't buy glass there. I am sure that you gents have stuff there in Australia that is cheaper than I can get in America.


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## Snowman (Nov 6, 2012)

It's our high wages that push prices up. We don't have cheap labour like they do in the states.


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## mcbuggsy (Nov 6, 2012)

A lot of glaziers have a stack of second hand glass and offcuts that they will give away or sell cheap (My local one does)..Spend about $50.00 on a glasscutter (from the same glazier) and practice cutting glass. It's easy as long as you clean it before scoring it and be firm when breaking it. After you build up some confidence it is easy to work with...
By the way, the older the glass is the harder it is to cut easily, I think it hardens and gets more brittle with age, but can still be done. Have a go, you'll save a fortune..


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## Justdragons (Nov 6, 2012)

Bunnings no, but the new masters... yep. we dont have one yet i think qld does. but i was told they were gonna sell it. i know a few people who have contracts with them.. just what i heard.. if you live in adelaide there is a great little place near st marys who cut glass while you wait and are good prices.. . if anyone needs pm me..


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 6, 2012)

GeckoRider said:


> I actually made my first glass cuts today, it was surprisingly easy, for 10mm glass anyway lol
> 
> - - - Updated - - -



Glass probably isn't that much more expensive in the States than it is here, but many glaziers will charge you whatever they think you'll pay. I've always said SHOP AROUND for glass, the big companies have a fixed (high) price for glass because they do a large amount of commercial work, smaller local glaziers are often only 30% of what the big guys charge because they can usually use offcuts for the small sizes we require.

GeckoRider, 2.5mm is way too thin and would be very dangerous in the size you mention there, totally unsuitable for a reptile enclosure.

Just an observation - you can't cut toughened glass once it has been processed, so Bunnings' pool fencing cannot be cut to a different size. If you want toughened glass, you'll need to order it to size so it can be heat treated as a final product.

Jamie


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## -Peter (Nov 6, 2012)

Snowman said:


> It's our high wages that push prices up. We don't have cheap labour like they do in the states.




High wages? Yeah! those unskilled workers are taking us for a ride.


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## Fluffysnake (Nov 6, 2012)

I don't know why people use glass at all. Acrylic (perspex) is shatterproof, has better insulating properties than glass, and can be cut easily.
It's only downside is it can be scratched, but if you cause a scratch by accidentally hitting it with something, the glass would have broken.


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## CaptainRatbag (Nov 6, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> to solve this i would personally only use laminated glass in an enclosure for the fact that if anything hits it like a falling chair or any number of possibilities it may still break but will be held together unlike float which will go all over you animal possibly resulting in injuries



Float glass doesnt explode into marbles if somehow over stressed? Toughened (hardened) glass does. Laminated glass is unneccessary and you can see the film between the 2 sheets of glass where the glass sliding doors pass each other. The glass on each side of the film is very easy to chip if laminated glass isnt in a frame.

All you need is 5mm float glass, if it gets cracked, it will likely stay in place (just with a big crack in it) Just ring your local glass place (not o'briens, they charge like wounded bulls). Get the glass cut to the size you need and just ask the dude to stone the edges to remove burrs and sharp bits..... polishing is an unneccessary expense, unless you just get the one edge done you might scrape your arm or snake on.

You can buy 5mm window track at bunnies in the isle where curtain rods and stuff are.

As someone said, toughened glass has to be cut and stoned before hardening, then it can no longer be modified. If you want to go to a glazier and come home that same day with your glass, just get 5mm float..... easy and good.

edit: Its cheap too, I paid recently $35 for 2 pieces of 5mm float 595 x 640 with the edges stoned  Cheaper than getting yourself stoned :shock::lol:

BTW, glass (other than laminated) is easy to cut if you are not trying to cut a tiny amount off one edge. ie, to trim 3mm off one edge is really hard, whereas cutting a 600mm piece in half is a breeze.


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## thomasssss (Nov 7, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> Float glass doesnt explode into marbles if somehow over stressed? Toughened (hardened) glass does. Laminated glass is unneccessary and you can see the film between the 2 sheets of glass where the glass sliding doors pass each other. The glass on each side of the film is very easy to chip if laminated glass isnt in a frame.
> 
> All you need is 5mm float glass, if it gets cracked, it will likely stay in place (just with a big crack in it) Just ring your local glass place (not o'briens, they charge like wounded bulls). Get the glass cut to the size you need and just ask the dude to stone the edges to remove burrs and sharp bits..... polishing is an unneccessary expense, unless you just get the one edge done you might scrape your arm or snake on.
> 
> ...


you work/worked in the trade ? handled it and worked with it day in day out ? i only ask because in the time i did i learnt a fair bit , and from what i learnt i wouldn't use float for a sliding track that has a living animal behind it , im not going to get back into this as ive said my piece on the matter a number of times now in this thread and others 

like i said the major down fall is the fact the edges are exposed , float glass main use is for a window type set up where the edges are covered and held firm and evenly thus reducing the risk of breaks float glass will break and shatter if hit with enough force i worked with it day in day out trust me 

if it where being used for a trophy cabinet or something id say yea 5mm float if you want to be a tight *** but when where in a hobby thats dealing with live animals alot of people like to have the best reliable thermo and equipment why doesnt the same go for the materials used to make an enclosure ? its harm minimisation 

if you do work in the trade im very surprised by your advice if you don't maybe don't try to de value the advice of someone who has

also my point with the cutting of glass wasnt so much that its hard just that i feel that it shouldn't be done by the general public unless they have some help , or are confident enough with it example of an common scenario that could go bad , rookie makes a cut but doesn't finish it all the way through , does another slight cut to finish it off but doesn't notice its not fully in line he cracks it and it hits the joining line and runs off to the the side down by his wrist 
if this goes badly you could wind up doing some major damage thats all i was always trained to take all precautions i could to make working with it safe also to understand the damage it could do , a college made that clear with his own scars and stories of when things had gone bad not sure how you where trained or if you where for that matter you talk the talk


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## matty1 (Nov 7, 2012)

hey mate i have the same problem,so i decided to use thick perspex cheaper stronger .


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 8, 2012)

Whilst respecting what thomassss has said, especially with regard to the safety issues re: inexperienced cutting, I've been using 5mm float glass for 30+ years and never had a problem with it breaking, not once... You'd really have to whack it to get it to shatter inwards and decapitate your snake. I understand that it's a possibility, but in my experience there have been no problems. Mind you, I've not had a houseful of kids, just boistrous dogs... For a normal 4x2x2 I'd still opt for 5mm float, anything larger maybe move to laminated.

As for acrylic - for a whole host of reasons it's awful stuff for animal enclosures. As far as scratching goes, even wiping it down with a soft cloth is enough to start the process of abrading the surface, and the more you wipe it, the more it attracts abrasive dust.

Jamie





Jamie


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## Fluffysnake (Nov 8, 2012)

I unfortunately have seen the downside to float glass. I slipped whilst moving a tv cabinet and my hand went through the door window. 
What followed was the kind of horror that no one should ever see. Lets just say you won't find a knife that sharp.

If you can guarantee yourself it won't happen to you or your snake, then use float.


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## thomasssss (Nov 9, 2012)

Fluffysnake said:


> I unfortunately have seen the downside to float glass. I slipped whilst moving a tv cabinet and my hand went through the door window.
> What followed was the kind of horror that no one should ever see. Lets just say you won't find a knife that sharp.
> 
> If you can guarantee yourself it won't happen to you or your snake, then use float.


finally someone else who can see the dangers in it , i still dont recommend it though even if you don't think it will happen to you whats that thing again Murphy's law  i just personally see it as harm minimisation float glass is way to breakable with the edges exposed


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## baker (Nov 9, 2012)

Must admit I do not know what people are complaining about glass prices. I just had some glass cut for a new enclosure I am using sliding doors in and it only cost $35. Would have only been $20 if I had not stuffed the measurement up the first go and had to get new glass cut. As stated shop around and see what quotes you get. 
Cheers Cameron


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## Echiopsis (Nov 11, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> Float glass doesnt explode into marbles if somehow over stressed? Toughened (hardened) glass does. Laminated glass is unneccessary and you can see the film between the 2 sheets of glass where the glass sliding doors pass each other. The glass on each side of the film is very easy to chip if laminated glass isnt in a frame.
> 
> All you need is 5mm float glass, if it gets cracked, it will likely stay in place (just with a big crack in it) Just ring your local glass place (not o'briens, they charge like wounded bulls). Get the glass cut to the size you need and just ask the dude to stone the edges to remove burrs and sharp bits..... polishing is an unneccessary expense, unless you just get the one edge done you might scrape your arm or snake on.
> 
> ...



Yep. Cut and used tons of the stuff for years. From aquariums to snake/ monitor enclosures never had a problem. Most of the monitor boxes had sand and other crap in the tracks that ground back and forth and I never managed to break a front.

If you do manage to put a hand through it there's no doubt it'll chop you up but the chances are minimal if your not a complete and utter fool. You can drive the worlds safest car but it wont help you if you drive into a tree at 110km/h :lol:


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## CaptainRatbag (Nov 11, 2012)

Snakes are smart and perspex is flexible...... you would want to have a strong frame around perspex otherwise a snake will soon realise he can push his way past it, if it is built flimsy or not held well at the edges.


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## Justdragons (Nov 11, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> Snakes are smart and perspex is flexible...... you would want to have a strong frame around perspex otherwise a snake will soon realise he can push his way past it, if it is built flimsy or not held well at the edges.



I'd have to agree here, Perspex is mega flexible and I rekon if your pane was over 500mm or even less in the overlap,your looking at a problem. I used Perspex on my first beardie tanks and it was poo. Only think I liked was its workability. I think glass is a better opinion now.(long term keeping)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trippa02 (Nov 12, 2012)

The main reason why Glass along with everything else in Australia is expensive is that we are greedy. Whats your hourly wage compared to that of someone from America? we are twice if not three times on a higher hourly rate, so bringing it in might cost $5 then the glazier if it wasn't brought from a middle man will charge to cut it and put his mark up on it then he has to pay for overheads which aren't cheap. Unfortunately that's why stuff here is expensive when compared to other countries.


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## MyMitchie (Dec 27, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> Float glass doesnt explode into marbles if somehow over stressed? Toughened (hardened) glass does. Laminated glass is unneccessary and you can see the film between the 2 sheets of glass where the glass sliding doors pass each other. The glass on each side of the film is very easy to chip if laminated glass isnt in a frame.
> 
> All you need is 5mm float glass, if it gets cracked, it will likely stay in place (just with a big crack in it) Just ring your local glass place (not o'briens, they charge like wounded bulls). Get the glass cut to the size you need and just ask the dude to stone the edges to remove burrs and sharp bits..... polishing is an unneccessary expense, unless you just get the one edge done you might scrape your arm or snake on.
> 
> ...



Can you please PM me as to where you got this from? I am just up at Mapleton and have purchased a book case I am converting and struggling to find glass. Thanks.


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