# charmeleon



## DA_GRIZ (Sep 22, 2006)

hey all

does anyone know how much a charmeleons are worth


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## MrBredli (Sep 22, 2006)

I believe they are worth a maximum fine of $10000 per animal, plus the value of your legally held collection which would also be confiscated.


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## Greebo (Sep 22, 2006)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you are only legally allowed to keep reptiles that are native to Australia (unless you own a zoo).
Chameleons are considered exotic repitles and illegal. That doesn't mean that they are not around though.....


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## scam7278 (Sep 22, 2006)

try petlink LOL


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## Kiwicam (Sep 22, 2006)

Also, "Most all species of chameleons are listed on CITES, and therefore are either banned from exportation from their native countries are have strict quotas placed on the numbers exported"


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## Magpie (Sep 22, 2006)

Karam karma karma karma charmeleon.....


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## diamond_python (Sep 22, 2006)

MrBredli said:


> I believe they are worth a maximum fine of $10000 per animal, plus the value of your legally held collection which would also be confiscated.





hobbo1972 said:


> try petlink LOL





Magpie said:


> Karam karma karma karma charmeleon.....



You guys are all too funny. Personally, I was thinking about the pet link one as well.


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## PremierPythons (Sep 22, 2006)

*bangs head on desk*


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## freddy (Sep 22, 2006)

alright they ARE illegal but are there and therefore have a price..i've been offered a few starting at $250 for the jacksons and veiled then around the $400-500 for the panthers. i personally wouldnt bother with any exotics they are worthless and in the long run cost you alot more than this with all the fines like mrbredli said can cost you $10,000 plus your collection and any hopes to be a breeder in Australia. but if your desperate to have them try petlink im sure some will pop up


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## spottie (Sep 22, 2006)

yer petlink is ur best bet i have seen a couple of different types of exotics on there.
www.petlink.com.au 
never no u just might find more then what ur looking for


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## AntaresiaLady (Sep 22, 2006)

Can I ask why we are encouraging people to break the law and own EXOTIC animals??????

Insane!


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## diamond_python (Sep 22, 2006)

AntaresiaLady said:


> Can I ask why we are encouraging people to break the law and own EXOTIC animals??????
> 
> Insane!



Do you think we are serious about this?? lol


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## Kiwicam (Sep 22, 2006)

AntaresiaLady said:


> Can I ask why we are encouraging people to break the law and own EXOTIC animals??????
> 
> Insane!


 
Because breaking the law is cool - geeze haven't you ever seen the Dukes of Hazard? 

Yee Haaaa...


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## Retic (Sep 22, 2006)

It's up to the individual, if you want an exotic then buy one. I don't see how this thread is encouraging people to own them ? I am not the morals police and I would no more tell someone not to own a chameleon than I would tell them not to smoke pot. 
The fine for owning one is about a tenth of the maximum on average and 99 times out of 100 they don't touch your licensed animals. No doubt this will bring them out of the woodwork but oh well I'm bored  LOL.


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## Dan123 (Sep 22, 2006)

LOL DUKES OF HAZZARD is THE BEST movie eva.......



btw charmeleons rnt that cool i would much rather a Komodo dragon


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 22, 2006)

I would like too have one they seem cool. The other day someone rang me up and offered me some weird stuff including a charmeleons for $800 too dear for me


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 22, 2006)

what are infractions


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## Jones of the Jungle (Sep 22, 2006)

Consider moving to America if you want to have a chameleon legally, while you're there get some Leapord gecko morphs the bright orange kind.
The laws are so strict over here because of our fragile eco system, has Steve Irwin taught you nothing!!!??? CRIKEY!


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 23, 2006)

Yesbut they are still cool. Dont advertise bad stuff on petlink becausethe oner sends u an e mail a threats u (trust me words of experince)


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 23, 2006)

but if i could get some for $ 250 id give them a go but no one should let them escape incase they wipe out the native wildlife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!8)


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## Jones of the Jungle (Sep 23, 2006)

I think if any of you is offered to buy a chameleon, you should report the offenders to the proper authorities.


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## Tristis (Sep 23, 2006)

not a smart idear to advatise your after exotic, you never know who will read your posts.


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## chad (Sep 23, 2006)

what i love is the name of this topic. Charmeleon!!!

obviously u are dealing with a young person here, as old people wouldnt know this word 

a Chameleon, is the master of disguise:

a Charmeleon, is the master of fire :


ill tell u what.. ill trade for a Wartortal if you want my Charmeleon, or maby an Ivysaw. why dont u just buy a Charmander, and raise it so it evolves  or u could just train up some other pokemon and go try catch it with a pokeball LOL


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## pythoness (Sep 23, 2006)

AAAAAAAhhahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
I want a fire pokemon, do you thing i can get one on my class 1 licence AAAAAhahahahahaha


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## chad (Sep 23, 2006)

maybe not, start with a grass one, and prove you can raise a super powered pokemon.

watch out for team rocket, they may come and fine you $10000 for owning illegal exotic pokemon


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## Retic (Sep 23, 2006)

I do agree that it isn't the smartest thing to advertise the fact that you want these animals on a public forum.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 23, 2006)

Lol


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 23, 2006)

They are still pretty cool. But it would be funny if u did doop on a dude that had thm


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## snakes4me2 (Sep 23, 2006)

I want a spider monkey, they are cool. I would teach it to go get me a rum can .. lol

Would petlink have any of them??


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## Retic (Sep 23, 2006)

Chameleons are my favourite lizards, they are easily the most beautiful lizards in the world.
I'm not sure what dooping is or if it would be funny to do to a dude. If you mean it would be funny to dob on someone with one then that's pretty low.


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## gillsy (Sep 23, 2006)

I want a Rainbow Boa, but that doesn't mean i'm going to go get one.

Advertising you want one is not a stupid thing to do.

Advertising you want to sell one, that is a stupid thing to do.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 23, 2006)

I Aggre


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## chad (Sep 23, 2006)

i see it all the time, the kids who get expelled from my school are always the ones who advertise the fact that theyve got weed in their wallets, to prove how hk they are. or the ones who talk up the fight their gonna have at the park across the road after school so that teachers here about it, tell the principle, our principle rings their principle, and their principle knows too, and there principle sends the main 2 fighting boys home to be watched by their parents, and then im left with bugger all to do on a friday night, with no entertainment to watch, so i watch sex in the city with a couple of mates.


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## waruikazi (Sep 24, 2006)

I'd have a golapogos tortoise, i would make it a saddle and ride it around town!


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

I remember at a show in the UK years ago a breeder had Galapagos Tortoises for sale, I had no idea anyone even had them privately let alone breeding them. They are magnificent animals.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

wonderhow much they were. They would probable outlive u


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

From memory they were around GBP800 which is about around $2000.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

Thats not too bad. it thats pretty cheep for a manifficent animal


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

srnt we meant to be talking about charmeleons ???????


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

My memory has never been good but I seem to remember at the time thinking it was reasonable for what it was. This was about 8 years ago.


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## gillsy (Sep 24, 2006)

Galapagos Turtles will out live all of us and probably three generations after us.

The one at Australia Zoo, just died. Approxmately 180yrs old.


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

I'm sure there is a sentence there, I'm just trying to unlock the code. 



gillsy said:


> Galapagos Turtles will alive all and probably our third generation under us.


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## gillsy (Sep 24, 2006)

I always forget to read what i have written.


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## junglepython2 (Sep 24, 2006)

gillsy said:


> Galapagos Turtles will out live all of us and probably three generations after us.
> 
> The one at Australia Zoo, just died. Approxmately 180yrs old.




Are you serious when did it pass?


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

About a month or so ago. It was all over here and the news.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

same in sydney was it HARRIT


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

Harriet.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

i think soo


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

You think so what ?


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

that his name is harrit


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## Retic (Sep 24, 2006)

Yes her name was HARRIET.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

ok thought soo


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## junglepython2 (Sep 24, 2006)

Damn missed it all, glad I saw her in Feb now.


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 24, 2006)

so sad  oh well life goes on


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## pythoness (Sep 24, 2006)

She had her 186th birthday a few months before she died.. but thats 186 years since Charles Darwin found her and took her home. he carved his name and the date in her shell, she was fully grown when he found her, and it takes atleast 20 years for them to grow that big, so she would have to have been 200 years old easily. so you would hope that your kids, and their kids and their kids and their kids all love reps


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## Morelia_Hunter (Sep 26, 2006)

My God!!!!! Is this W.T.BUY a real person or is it the moderators playing jokes with us???? I am amazed that you guys can follow those posts? I am shocked!!!


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## Retic (Sep 26, 2006)

I can't follow most of them but it was a bit of fun though, I am thinking of learning whatever language that is that he speaks or at least writes


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## Moreliaman (Sep 26, 2006)

boa said:


> I remember at a show in the UK years ago a breeder had Galapagos Tortoises for sale, I had no idea anyone even had them privately let alone breeding them. They are magnificent animals.



Boa, are you sure they actually were genuine ? (not doubting you ) I’ve never heard of them being offered for sale in the UK and i’ve never heard of any private individual owning a single specimen, let alone a breeding pair, but i’ve heard of plenty of people trying to pass other species off as them !!.

Just to clear things up.......
When a specie is on cites it does not mean that you can not import it ! 
If you have the paperwork it is allowed free movement (so to speak) It also depends on the Appendix that particular specie is under and 99% are under Appendix II , 99% of captive bred Chamaeleonidae do not require CITES paperwork, infact just a receipt from the breeder is enough over here to allow it free movement anywhere in Europe.
If my memory is correct there is only 1 specie of chamaeleonidae in Appendix I & thats a little Brookesia specie

Oh BTW.....Komodo Dragons are £1750.00 each with cites paperwork.


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## Retic (Sep 26, 2006)

Well I must admit he didn't have the parents with him 

I did a 'tour' of the science department at Oxford University years ago and they had babies there, they were in something akin to a baby humidicrib. I have no idea where they came from.
I know what you are saying as the parents would have to have been very old themselves but I assumed they came from a zoo or park.

Put me down for 2 Komodos please.


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## Morelia_Hunter (Sep 26, 2006)

I remeber that there is a tortoise park over in England. A very wealthy brit owns it and i remember seeing Aldabra Tortoises in his collection. A total tortoise nut. I cant think that Galapagos tortoises would cost that little? They are hardly allowed to move out of Galapagos. Maybe Aldabra tortoises but they are totally different to Galapagos tortoises. Also in the last few years many more Chameleons have been moved to Cites one with Quota systems in place. They are still easy enough to move around in private collections. As they are CITES 2 animals and only need papers for international export. Trust me. I have dealed in this business.


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## chad (Sep 27, 2006)

but u cant import into australia right? coz its australia, the worlds largest wildlife sanctuary (thanks steve). i wanna get this cleared up, coz being as narrow minded as i am, i only researched wa, which pretty much just needs a big wall along the inland border, making us west germany and u guys all east. it sure feels that way when dealing with reptiles anyway.

is there anything, anything at all that u can import into australia? i mean the eastern states ofc, coz u can just write wa off. i know zoos and all those guys can get them, but anything weird and wonderful for the average joe?


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## adbacus (Sep 27, 2006)

Am fairly sure you cannot get anything for the average joe. Only for zoos and wildlife parks. Even you applied to use as study, you aren't allowed to import reptiles into australia a general rule.


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

No, you can import just about anything into Australia as long as it isn't a reptile.


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## Moreliaman (Sep 27, 2006)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> Also in the last few years many more Chameleons have been moved to Cites one with Quota systems in place. They are still easy enough to move around in private collections. As they are CITES 2 animals and only need papers for international export. Trust me. I have dealed in this business.



so have others morelia_Hunter, but did you ever catch any in africa ?


Appendices I, II and III
valid from 14 June 2006
http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml
Species in Appendix I are in Red, Appendix II = Green, Appendix III = Blue.

Brookesia perarmata is the only specie in appendix I and as far as ive heard there is no intention to move any to appendix I because they are not regarded as under threat.

I would have thought only zoo's could get hold of some in Australia, ?? I cant imagine them letting private keepers import any.


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

Morelia_Hunter wasn't saying we could import them into Australia, he meant they can be moved internationally obviously to countries that allow their importation with the appropriate paperwork.


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## Moreliaman (Sep 27, 2006)

I know boa, someone else asked if you could.


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh yeah, I see the reference now. It's only early you know


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## Seven_neves (Sep 27, 2006)

Had one of the biggest collections of Dwarf chameleons in South Africa as well as some Calumma parsonii. And some other rare Madagascan species. Have even been there a few times.


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## Seven_neves (Sep 27, 2006)

That was Morelia Hunter - not seven_neves.... sheesh


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## Moreliaman (Sep 27, 2006)

Youve been to Madagascar !!! you lucky X*%$£* !!
I'd sell my mum for a month in madagascar !


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

I would love to go to Madagascar, it is my No1 herp place to visit. My favourite animals come from South America but as far as places to visit it's Madagascar definitely.


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## Morelia_Hunter (Sep 27, 2006)

I saw the Parsons chameleons in their habitat. Caught Sanzinia madagascariensis crossing roads like carpets over here. Went to a few reptile farms and saw most of the commoner species of chameleons as well as Brookesia perarmatta, adults as well as babies. This is in 1998. Always wanted to do more trips.


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

That's amazing, one day I will get there.


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## Morelia_Hunter (Sep 27, 2006)

Should start a proper thread on Chameleons. I have run a few threads on here with my pics. Come on Boa, lets do it I know its always a crowd pleaser!!!!


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

Absolutely, there are a few on here that can appreciate a beautiful animal.


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## Kirby (Sep 27, 2006)

my mum owned two gallapogus turtles when she was little, her mum from brasil and her dad italian she would ride themn around the grarden by holding a snail on a string infront of its face it was the price for a oneway half hour ticket around there yard, unfortunetly this was about the time it was considered normal to chain two together by a chain through their shell, i forget there names, although i remember her telling me when they first got them at the markets in brasil they brought them over, one of the two turtles bit a mans arm and he flung them into the air, across the market until the chain between the two turtles hit a pole and they stopped flying, i beleive it could of been a world record for the longest flight of a turtle, but it was the 70's or the 80's so it was in no way considered cruel, ... hippie idiots...


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## Retic (Sep 27, 2006)

I am not necessarily doubting your story but I would guess the animals were more likely one of the very large mainland tortoises found in the area. I find it highly unlikely people would travel the considerable distance to the Galapagos Islands to bring tortoises back to sell in a market.
Also a land tortoise wouldn't be tempted by a snail as they are herbivores. 
In the 80's all Galapagos animals were highly protected and would have been very hard to get and thus as I say highly unlikely to be sold in a market.


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## DA_GRIZ (Sep 27, 2006)

Yeah i'm with you AntaresiaLady,The young boy only asked how much they were i didnt see anywhere that he stated that he wanted to buy one.....so if you cant give the kid's on here any honest advice maybe you should just keep your comments to yourselves.... Matt's Mum


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## chad (Sep 27, 2006)

this thread has gone totaly offtrack, i dont think any1 was making jokes directed at your boy, i think they were more just bouncing off eachother, then got sidetracked.

matt loves pokemon right?

dont worry, i got shotdown b4 for asking questions considered dumb. tell him not to feel bad, no1 dislikes him here, i just thought the spelling was funny 

i also noticed, the conversations are ripe, untill u posted then everyone just shuttup lol, scared them off


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## Moreliaman (Sep 27, 2006)

OK....so after some investigative work I can safely say that there are no Galapagos Tortoises in the UK, not even in zoo's, i’ve been told there’s a few in the states but their movement is strictly regulated (for obvious reasons).
Personally I think unless their natural habitat is under threat they should stay there too.


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## hornet (Sep 27, 2006)

just 4 fun i have advertised exotics on petlink to c if anyone of importance gets in contact with me bout them but no1 did, and shame on anyone who keeps exotics or wants to keep them, if the escape they can do so much damage to our native wildlife.....*gotta catch 'em all, pokemon*


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## Moreliaman (Sep 29, 2006)

If thats what you do for fun, you need to get out more.


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## euan (Sep 29, 2006)

ATTN: Moreliaman
Galapogos tortoises ARE in the UK, Your investigation missed a few people. A quick check on ISIS showed four at Chester zoo. Plus there are private people with them as well.
In the USA they are even commonly bred in the thousands (not all by the same breeder). They are not allowed to be SOLD across state borders in the USA due to the Endangered Spp Act, but never the less they are freely available. Ten years ago the wholesale price was down to $200USD ea for hatchlings. I am sure they are cheaper now. In Florida they are held by numerous people in small to large herds.
Euan


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## Retic (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks Euan, I was beginning to think I was going mad


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

ATTN: Euan

Ive just phoned Douglas Sherriff (head of reptiles at Chester Zoo) and he said , please could you tell him where they are on the park grounds ? because to the best of his knowledge the zoo does not have any Galapogos Tortioses (Geochelone nigra) in stock or on it's records !!!


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

AHHHH i see how you getting confused now...

Geochelone nigra ssp. galapagoensis <-- True Galapagogos Tortoise.....the rest are sub species ....not all of them live on the same island (you do know its more than 1 island ?!)

Geochelone nigra ssp. guntheri

Geochelone nigra ssp. vandenburghi

Geochelone nigra ssp. ephippium

Geochelone nigra ssp. microphyes

Geochelone nigra ssp. vicina

Geochelone nigra ssp. abingdoni

Geochelone nigra ssp. becki

Geochelone nigra ssp. porteri

Geochelone nigra ssp. chathamensis

Geochelone nigra ssp. darwini

Geochelone nigra ssp. hoodensis


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

So euan must be a member already on here under a different name then !! ???


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## euan (Oct 1, 2006)

ATTN: Moreliaman
As I mentioned a quick look on ISIS still shows four Galapagos tortoises at Chester. Feel free to check yourself www.isis.org. I do not know the accuracy but to the best of my knowledge it is verified every 12mths min. But birth death records are six monthly. It is a voluntary reporting system so it is up to the respondants to accurately submit reports. So if you are saying they are no longer there then it should be a recent occurrance. Or that Chester has not bothered to update the ISIS records.
Confused, me ??? You seem to be the one that is confused. At no stage in this whole thread were subspp mentioned. ALL subspp of G.nigra are COMMONLY called Galapagos tortoises. Though I have never been a fan of common names, I understand that the trend for amatuer herpotoculturists is to use common names. The supspecific satus of captive Galapagos tortoises is something generally not alluded to. The degree of hybridisation is of concern. Though there are a few private people in the USA as well as some zoos ( again you can check the zoo stock on ISIS) with known subspp. Thus to say that G.nigra galapagoensis is the true Galapagos tortoise is false, for a few reasons. A) Using your arguement, it would be the subspp G.nigra nigra. G.n.nigra is the spp all others are subspp B) as far as I am aware there is no subspp G.n.galapagoensis C) common names have been in use up until this period of time on this thread and common names are just that common.
A quick note on the taxonomy used by yourself, and subsequently myself. All my books are presently in the USA and Madagascar at present so I am unable to verify the taxonomy used. Obviously I could send off emails and make phone calls to verify things but do not feel that small points like this require me to burden myself with extra work. Feel free to check yourself, or others for that matter.
Do I know that the Galapogos Islands are more than one island: well considering I am with high probability one of the most widely travelled people on this forum, I am most definitely aware of the many islands there and of the various subspp there there. Though unfortunately it is one of the few areas in the world I have not made it to yet.
Regards
Euan


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

Sorry mate but im not fussed what it says or claims on isis, ive just got the info from the "horses mouth", he is the head of reptiles at the zoo, im sure he'd know if he had them ! they are a bit big to miss! but obviously you'd know this being an expert, (where the hell are the smileys on this soddin thing?)

You'd best get there too then before it sinks under the sea.(if i could i'd put a winking smiley here!)


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## euan (Oct 1, 2006)

You may like to inform Chester that their ISIS records are not up to date. ISIS records are extremely important to the zoo community. Though it would be interesting to know what happened to them. If you find out please share.
No chance of the islands sinking in my lifetime, global warming is still in debate, but all worse case estimates still allow me plently of time to get there )
When I wanted to go to Ecuador things did not pan out and now the guy who I was interested in doing something with there has disappeared.
Guess I will have to wait a while.
Euan


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

Im not calling him now, its 00.55am !(he said "do you know what $%&^* time it is? when i phoned him eairler!) I will in the morning though and find out exactly what specie he does have there.

Guess you could go and look for him, he is youre friend!(smiley)

according to chester zoo's website they dont have any either! http://www.chesterzoo.org/animals.asp?Collection=46


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## euan (Oct 1, 2006)

Yeah getting on'e head around time zones is a pain. I'm continuously working and living in different countries and sometimes forget when it's what time where 

"Guess you could go and look for him, he is youre friend!(smiley)"

Not sure the meaning is he somebody I know ??? Quite possible as I am hopeless with names but pretty good with faces. It's been a while since I was about on the UK herp scence.
Oh yeah found the smiley just do it like you do on emails : followed by ) equals 
Euan


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

you said youre friend had gone missing ?

Perhaps you could tell Australia zoo they haven’t updated theirs either ! ;>)+ but then....i spose when it does perhaps both of those records will come off !


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## euan (Oct 1, 2006)

It was figurative  I have lost contact with him that's all.


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

Damn....thats a shame!

and im giving up on the smileys, i prefer the old site for them.


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

*now im confused*

Well......there’s a turn for the books, I phoned him this morning, (I know I keep saying "phoned" but I actually mean text message, and after a text with loads of "f" & "c" words in it for waking him up last night) he's now saying he thought I was referring to giant tortoises , and for reasons that only he himself knows…thought I was referring to Aldabra's, (which I can’t understand because he knows that I know he doesn’t have any of those …I hope everyone can understand that bit!?) But sure enough they are there & they do now have 4 captive bred ones from another zoo collection, they haven’t been here in the UK very long, infact they were only given them just this year and i cant believe the evil scottish bar steward didn’t tell me !! (I say given…the zoo made an “undisclosed donation”), He does say however that to the best of his knowledge they are now the only ones in the UK, he says he has never heard of them being offered for sale in the UK & he's also 99% sure they have never been bred in the UK in private collections (if they have then someone has kept it very quite and I doubt someone would keep such an important achievement like that under wraps for very long as im sure the resulting offspring would require CITES paperwork to be issued) also he's 100% sure they’ve never been bred in any UK zoo's.
I don’t think they wanted anyone to know yet..(Hence why they aren’t on the website)..But this is good news ...2006 and we now eventually (and officially) have them here.
Sorry Euan, you were right, although im still a tad confused as im sure he knew I was referring to nigra & didn't admit having any until I told him that someone had just shown me they were down as having 4 on isis !
Im glad he was woken now for making me look a right nana !

Euan, you said that there are private keepers with them ? how did you find this out ?
Although looking at the thread asking for the return of someones snakes its easy to see why people don’t advertise what they keep & its hard to know exactly what is and isn’t in the country.

I have emailed UNEP to ask if they have any records of movement into the UK, but to be honest I cant imagine they’d give out that kind of info to a private individual, I will ask Douglas (Although I’m having second thought’s on that now !..lol ) to contact them as I would have thought the question/query would carry more weight coming from a zoo, it would be nice to know if there are more than 4 now and if so how long have they been here !
(And ill text Douglas again during the late hours (just to be extra awkward) and suggest a visit to see these new additions and get some pics as compensation for being let’s say…. “economical with the truth”)


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## Retic (Oct 1, 2006)

In my defence, I don't think I ever said they were bred in the UK only that I saw them at a show in the UK but as I said to you earlier Mark my wife thinks they were Aldabra Tortoises, seeing as she has a memory that works I have no reason to doubt her.


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2006)

I know that ash, but everyone I ask has said straight away that they've never heard of them being offered for sale either, but im wondering why you are defending yourself when this is just a conversation, not an argument......................isn’t it ? Or has APS still not grown up ?

I feel I should clarify this comment too:

I can’t believe the evil Scottish bar steward didn’t tell me !! 

As you will all know people that work in zoo's are usually private keepers that have got jobs doing what they love, just as most on here would love to be able to do, so they still take great delight in bragging to each other about what they have in the zoo, what they are getting, etc etc and just like private keepers its great to brag if you’ve managed to get hold of something really nice or rare, great satisfaction was taken when Douglas was told the park had a Fiji banded, so Douglas not bragging about these tortoises Chester zoo had just obtained !! Strange and puzzled are words that spring to my mind


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## Moreliaman (Oct 2, 2006)

Perhaps I also should point out that I am not employed at any zoo or park, im merely fortunate enough like some others on here to be able to do voluntary work when needed.


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## Moreliaman (Oct 2, 2006)

euan said:


> No chance of the islands sinking in my lifetime, global warming is still in debate, but all worse case estimates still allow me plently of time to get there )



Oh btw, I wasn’t actually referring to global warming or climatic changes being the demise of the islands, I don’t think most of us will be here when that happens, and call me old fashioned but if it did, when water's gushing in around my ankles the last thing I’ll be thinking is...."gosh I must get to the Galapagos islands before they've gone too!"(winking smiley)
If you look into the history and how the islands were formed and what they are made from, you will see that unfortunately there is chance of that happening in your lifetime, infact it could happen tomorrow even if there was a big earth quake or the magma underneath decided to shift, parts of the island have already done so ,. So if I were you, I’d find your friend, and get there before it sinks under the sea ! (winking smiley)

Now i know you already know all of that euan, but others may not so i'll leave it there because it might interest them in knowing.(smiley)


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## euan (Oct 2, 2006)

I've never heard of someone breeding Galapagos tortoises in the UK, the ones I knew of were young ones. I use to hang out in the UK a few years ago, so know a few people there, mainly oldtimers.
The UNEP is an umbrella organisation, the record holding body is TRAFFIC there in the UK. And yes they will give you the details of any CITES records. If I think hard enough I will remember where the website is but you can verify online. Try www.cites.org then looking for the database. But keep an open mind with their data there are a lot of mistakes unfortunately, due to human error.
Aldabras being CITES App II they are easier to move around. When I was in the Seychelles I met up with some of the exporters there and they had exported to the EU. But saying that I am not sure of their EU status. It can be verified on the EU wildlife trade website. I am also quite sure that they were available in the UK also. Seeing them at one of the shows is far more likely than the Galapagos tortoises. If I remember correctly in the UK you can not sell CITES App I spp openly (not to mean they can be illegally). Rather I know people with CITES App I spp that can not sell but can trade (birds) and cannot do anything (reptiles). Not sure of why the difference, could be due to the actual origin of the specimen involved.
Yeah it can be quite difficult at times understanding meaning from internet discussions just from reading what was written. Humans are geared for reading emotions while communicating face to face. I think I addressed the points required 
Euan


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## jeramie85 (Oct 2, 2006)

thanks guys that was actually for some reason rather interesting to read


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## Moreliaman (Oct 2, 2006)

I was going to email CITES but it did say on their site that they don’t give out information like the movement of certain or specific species, And i’ve tried to use their search page but all I keep getting back is : The web site you are accessing has experienced an unexpected error !!
I thought the trade list database was managed by UNEP-WCMC on behalf of cites so that’s why I contacted them and not TRAFFIC, but i’ve never needed to contact them before, ill let you know if they do respond. 
Now I we know there’s at least 4 it would be interesting to see if there are any in private collections and roughly how long they've been here.

Jeramie, I though I was good too, im a bit shocked that there’s nigra here and I never knew, also what’s annoying is, if I’d looked on isis earlier I could have confronted douglas at Chester about them, and I wonder how long he was going to keep them quiet ?, he’s getting quite a sly bugger in his old age!! (smiley) 
I'm certainly not claiming i know everything in this hobby, no-one can, and the thing I enjoy about it is that you really can learn something new about it everyday (smiley)
Im terrible with venomous ID, because its something I’d never keep and i’ve tended to concentrate on learning about the things that I would or have kept, but I’d like to know what I could meet in the outback so I need to learn, which was one of the reasons I joined this site, and yes im learning stuff from the keepers who are more experienced with vens.(big grin smiley)

And to think this thread started off as chameleons !....ooops sorry....charmeleon (laughing smiley)


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## euan (Oct 2, 2006)

we could always start another thread on chameleons  Though I'm not sure yet how to post pictures, I breed quite a few in Madagascar.
Euan


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## Moreliaman (Oct 2, 2006)

Well i've managed to find the smiley's !!


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