# Beginner elapid?



## Hooglabah (Apr 22, 2011)

Hay all.
Just wondering what the elapid keepers out there would suggest as a good first elapid within this criteria.

1. Preferably not able to kill me.
2. Common 
3. Plenty of information on the web.

I'm tossing are the idea of a little whip snake, or a white crowned snake. 
Any advice or suggestions would be great.


----------



## imported_Varanus (Apr 22, 2011)

I'd go RBB's! Good feeders too!


----------



## cadwallader (Apr 22, 2011)

yer i would also start with a RBB, nice looking snake too still wouldn't want to take a bite though...


----------



## Hooglabah (Apr 22, 2011)

Rbbs would be my first choice except for the whole being able to kill me part.


----------



## cadwallader (Apr 22, 2011)

the chance of death by rbb is quite low so youll be fine..


----------



## abnrmal91 (Apr 22, 2011)

Just take precautions. Have a First Aid kit and directions to the nearest hospital.


----------



## AaronR (Apr 22, 2011)

RBB are awsome little snakes you'll love it


----------



## Jay84 (Apr 22, 2011)

Death Adders!!!!

These are my first elapids. I got my first in February and now have 6 lol

They are great feeders, easy to maintain, slow moving (they don't thrash around everywhere), although the fastest strikers lol. Just stay out of striking distance and you're fine! They are great to hook, they junst hang there. Makes moving them and cleaning them a breeze!


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Apr 22, 2011)

Jay, what happens when one gets a retained eye scale, or hasn't shed it's tail tip, or needs to be medicated/force fed?


----------



## KingSirloin (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm interested to know if people actually handle their elapids like pythons, or if there is a strict discipline to their management.


----------



## pepsi111 (Apr 22, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Jay, what happens when one gets a retained eye scale, or hasn't shed it's tail tip, or needs to be medicated/force fed?


 
make sure you have someone to take you to the hospitable lol


----------



## Tassie97 (Apr 22, 2011)

this is not me it is from another forum





that is a tassie tiger


----------



## imported_Varanus (Apr 22, 2011)

Is it just me, or does that look like a black Tiger? (going by head shape). Being responsible, I'd say free handling is possible, but not advised for obvious reasons. Jonno has a good take on this.

That's another plus with RBB's, I've found them to be very hardy with few health issues (a big plus IMO).


----------



## Tassie97 (Apr 22, 2011)

this is in public demo so i dont agree with it, it is a Tasmanian tiger snake


----------



## Specks (Apr 22, 2011)

What a dick head, handling it in public let alone like that. He may trust the snake but who would a snake that if a bite to the face or neck have the very potential of killing you


----------



## Jay84 (Apr 22, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Jay, what happens when one gets a retained eye scale, or hasn't shed it's tail tip, or needs to be medicated/force fed?


 
You let it die and replace it of course!

Or you have a great friend who can come and help you.


----------



## -Peter (Apr 22, 2011)

KingSirloin said:


> I'm interested to know if people actually handle their elapids like pythons, or if there is a strict discipline to their management.



No, in my case they get handle differently. I tend to support pythons not far from their head. Elapids not so much.


----------



## abnrmal91 (Apr 22, 2011)

Specks said:


> What a dick head, handling it in public let alone like that. He may trust the snake but who would a snake that if a bite to the face or neck have the very potential of killing you


 
No that's allright just wrap the pressure bandage around his neck when he gets bitten. He doesn't like living anyway. What a ********


----------



## blakehose (Apr 22, 2011)

Even the elapids which have a lower venom toxicity can still put you in serious trouble. Have a bit of a read up on anaphylaxis... RBB's though are not a bad place to start, as has been said.


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Apr 22, 2011)

I'd suggest getting a brown tree snake first, 
then move onto a tigersnake, 
Chappell island tigers have the least potent venom in the tiger family but they get pretty big.
they are bomb proof and become very relaxed and easy to work with generally speaking.
After seeing what blacksnake venom can do with its necrosis i don,t think id like to take a wack from one.
I have never been bitten by one but im told its a very painful bite as opppsed to an adder.


----------



## snakeluvver (Apr 22, 2011)

Just wondering why people dont suggest the mildly venomous species as first elapids (eg. whipsnakes, curl snakes and marsh snakes). I've heard whipsnakes often have to be force fed but other than that why are the more dangerous snakes better beginners?


----------



## varanid_mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Hooglabah said:


> Hay all.
> Just wondering what the elapid keepers out there would suggest as a good first elapid within this criteria.
> 
> 1. Preferably not able to kill me.
> ...




G'day mate
We are not allowed to keep white crowned snakes on permit in Vic and a little whip snake is not a starter elapid, they are skink feeders therefore must be weaned on to pinkie mice or small fish as it’s illegal to feed skinks out in Victoria. Before you get one you must feel competent that you can handle the animal safely and that you can do any handling needed for husbandry. I would suggest a red belly black, collets snake or even look at getting a colubrid such as a brown tree snake and move to elapids from there.
Regards
Mike


----------



## Bez84 (Apr 22, 2011)

I saw an ad online a while ago of a bloke selling a small RBB and ad said handled daily and very quiet and pics that went with it showed it around his neck and in his hands just like someone would do with a small python lol.
So i guess some people do handle them the same.
Ive also heard that RRB are ment to be one of the tamest elapids to get as they can become python tame in captivity....


----------



## kawasakirider (Apr 22, 2011)

Bez84 said:


> I saw an ad online a while ago of a bloke selling a small RBB and ad said handled daily and very quiet and pics that went with it showed it around his neck and in his hands just like someone would do with a small python lol.
> So i guess some people do handle them the same.
> Ive also heard that RRB are ment to be one of the tamest elapids to get as they can become python tame in captivity....


 Pythons still bite, though....


----------



## snakeluvver (Apr 22, 2011)

When you say python tame that doesnt really mean anything, not all pythons are tame. If you mean its scrub or jungle python tame then I definitely wouldnt go near it


----------



## AshMan (Apr 22, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> When you say python tame that doesnt really mean anything, not all pythons are tame. If you mean its scrub or jungle python tame then I definitely wouldnt go near it



Thats a bad generalisation. Iv been keeping snakes for 8 years and my jungle i got fairly recently is probably the most "tame" snake i have ever kept. I guess some species can be harder to tame then others but i think its wrong of people to think that just because a snake is a jungle or a GTP or a scrubby then it will always be a horrifically evil biting machine lol.


----------



## waruikazi (Apr 22, 2011)

I got a whip for a first elapid. It was alot of hardwork and i really wouldn't reccomend one for a first or any other small elapid for that matter.


----------



## Hooglabah (Apr 22, 2011)

So a Rbbs is the general idea cool that makes me really happy to tell you all the truth as they are one of me favorite snakes.

Well days of research here I come .


----------



## snakeluvver (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah I know it's a generalization but those were just some examples I thought of


----------



## longqi (Apr 22, 2011)

If you really want this snake to trust you and become like a pet try to avoid touching its head or neck for the foreseeable future
Every predator on earth grabs snakes by the head/neck and they simply dont like it very much
Thats why they always grab the head on TV shows as it makes the snake twist and turn and look dangerous

My first ven was a little marsh snake and it was just like a childrens python
I personally think they would be the ideal first ven
Brown tree snakes seem to like too much space to move about in so I never kept them

I simply cannot believe that some people think death adders would be the best
They are virtually impossible to hold easily and safely 
They can move incredibly fast when they want to
Their bite can definitely send you looking for a body bag

RBBs are a wonderful animal to use in displays 
That glossy black shine when you open the bag and they slide out is just awesome
But they can also move very quickly if they want to and their bite can be a bad one even if it usually wont kill you

One thing I recommend with any dangerous ven is to keep a card in your wallet just saying
"I own a XXXXX If you find me looking pretty crook please tell the hospital this"


----------



## jack (Apr 22, 2011)

get a redbelly... but really any one is as good as another, just don't get bitten


----------



## cement (Apr 22, 2011)

They do all have their pro's and con's. red bellies make a fairly good first elapid, they generally eat well,and don't have many problems if the husbandry is right. They are however a messy, smelly animal needing pretty constant cleaning. So they get used to the handling fairly quickly in a captive sitch.
They are known for dry biting, but I do know people who have suffered at the hands of a red belly envenomation.
Research them as much as you like, but see if you can get some live handling in on them too with an experienced person.


----------



## Renenet (Apr 22, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> I got my first in February and now have 6 lol



Good lord, Jay, exactly how many snakes do you have?


----------



## mmafan555 (Apr 23, 2011)

ssssnakeman said:


> I'd suggest getting a brown tree snake first,
> then move onto a tigersnake,
> Chappell island tigers have the least potent venom in the tiger family but they get pretty big.


 
Yes to laboratory mice they do.......

And they have larger venom yields than the other tiger snakes and probably bigger fangs so even if they had less toxic venom to humans like they do for mice...you would be equally as screwed..

As for me.. I would just say screw it and get a mulga.. I know they are very dangerous...but what an awesome snake!! Favorite aussie snakes along with the tiger snakes..Would love to see them both in the wild..


----------



## Flaviruthless (Apr 23, 2011)

What about a Collett's? Do many people have them?


----------



## Nighthawk (Apr 23, 2011)

longqi said:


> One thing I recommend with any dangerous ven is to keep a card in your wallet just saying
> "I own a XXXXX If you find me looking pretty crook please tell the hospital this"



Bloody good idea there: I wonder if anyone's thought of making up and selling bracelets, like medical alert: just slip it on when you have to remove and clean etc.


----------



## imported_Varanus (Apr 23, 2011)

Rahni29 said:


> What about a Collett's? Do many people have them?



Very similar to RBB's in many respects (and a Cat 1 ven in NSW), however, I've found them to be a more flighty captive, especially when younger and potentially a more dangerous proposition if you are tagged (similar to Mulgas, I believe). Still a nice snake though!


----------



## Flaviruthless (Apr 23, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> Very similar to RBB's in many respects (and a Cat 1 ven in NSW), however, I've found them to be a more flighty captive, especially when younger and potentially a more dangerous proposition if you are tagged (similar to Mulgas, I believe). Still a nice snake though!


 
I just thought about them because I've just done a venomous snakes handling course (thanks Jonno!) and they had a couple of Collett's there. They were the most placid and beautiful snakes


----------



## moosenoose (Apr 23, 2011)

cadwallader said:


> yer i would also start with a RBB, nice looking snake too still wouldn't want to take a bite though...


 
Yes exactly, it's an extremely unpleasant experience according to the ones who have been bitten  I'd probably suggest the red belly also. They still can't be taken lightly though.

I gather the Colletts pump out more venom than the red bellied blacks? Certainly the one I have seems to. I wouldn't want to cop a bite from this species either (actually, no bites from anything is the ideal scenario )


----------



## sookie (Apr 23, 2011)

Boiling all this info down in to one cup......the general opinion is if you want to keep something ven,a red belly black snake is the best starter snake.They can be handled,from very young would be ideal age?wow,i just don't think dangerous snakes are for me.am curious about having one,but i don't see me in the near future getting one.


----------



## waruikazi (Apr 23, 2011)

sookie said:


> Boiling all this info down in to one cup......the general opinion is if you want to keep something ven,a red belly black snake is the best starter snake.They can be handled,from very young would be ideal age?wow,i just don't think dangerous snakes are for me.am curious about having one,but i don't see me in the near future getting one.



My opinion is if you are looking for a first elapid then the best criteria to choose from is how easy they are to care for. IMO toxicity shouldn't be a part of the selection criteria.


----------



## imported_Varanus (Apr 23, 2011)

Rahni29 said:


> I just thought about them because I've just done a venomous snakes handling course (thanks Jonno!) and they had a couple of Collett's there. They were the most placid and beautiful snakes



They are indeed a very nice animal and I agree with Gordo, ease of care would be a priority, that's why I keep Pseudechis ! They're most dangerous at feed time, my Collett's male will thrash around his enclosure at the meer hint of food, wiggling his tail in a similar way to many womas, and even biting his own tail in excitment!! Otherwise, he's a pussycat.


----------



## Flaviruthless (Apr 23, 2011)

I have to wait until I get my vens license, so plenty of time to plan and prepare  Definitely thinking a Collett's though...


----------

