# Hesitant partner



## HerpDerp (Sep 29, 2021)

First of all so sorry for the spam. But I am new and I have questions. 

This question, I'm not sure if it belongs here or not. So please let me know if I should delete or if I should move it to another section.

I am looking at getting a snake. A jungle carpet python to be exact. My partner says he is scared and seems to be under the impression that the snake is going to be trying it's hardest to escape it's enclosure to bite his toes while he sleeps.

Now this MAY be my fault as I showed him some feeding videos with the intent to demonstrate that it can be done safely but may have just freaked him out. 

He also has concerns about how hygienic it is to keep rats/mice in the freezer. Which I can't honestly say I'm not also a little concerned about, even though they are bred for this purpose and not just some wild rats someone's knocked on the head and sold to the pet food store.

He is also concerned that his friends won't want to come to the house because they will be scared. He has had one friend tell him directly they will not come to the house of there is a snake here (which seems a bit melodramatic to be to be honest).

So what are your experiences? What advice do you have? I would love to hear.


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## Herpetology (Sep 29, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> I am looking at getting a snake. A jungle carpet python to be exact. My partner says he is scared and seems to be under the impression that the snake is going to be trying it's hardest to escape it's enclosure to bite his toes while he sleeps.


I'll be honest, Jungles dont have the best reputation for beginner snakes, you get the odd one here and there thats calm and not nippy, but the majority of them are nippy and strike at any movement. But all the other carpets are good starting snakes. the fear of them getting out just comes down to having a lock on the enclosure that requires a key.



MatthewKeating said:


> He also has concerns about how hygienic it is to keep rats/mice in the freezer. Which I can't honestly say I'm not also a little concerned about, even though they are bred for this purpose and not just some wild rats someone's knocked on the head and sold to the pet food store.



They're fine to be kept near other food as they come in ziplock bags, however it is best to keep them somewhat seperated, even if its just wrapping them up in news paper and chucking them in the freezer with everything else, rats and mice are very clean animals when given the right care



MatthewKeating said:


> He is also concerned that his friends won't want to come to the house because they will be scared. He has had one friend tell him directly they will not come to the house of there is a snake here (which seems a bit melodramatic to be to be honest).


FInd out why his friend is scared? otherwise not sure what you want us to do lol, find less dramatic friends


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## HerpDerp (Sep 29, 2021)

Herpetology said:


> They're fine to be kept near other food as they come in ziplock bags, however it is best to keep them somewhat seperated, even if its just wrapping them up in news paper and chucking them in the freezer with everything else, rats and mice are very clean animals when given the right care


Intellectually I know this. But I still cringe a little thinking about it. But I will pass this on and hope that it gives him some comfort. 



Herpetology said:


> FInd out why his friend is scared? otherwise not sure what you want us to do lol, find less dramatic friends


I would love to hear what other people have done to help their hesitant partners/friends get over their fears or apprehensions. 
But yes, less dramatic friends would be ideal, if you ask me.


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## Herpetology (Sep 29, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> I would love to hear what other people have done to help their hesitant partners/friends get over their fears or apprehensions.


i'd treat it as if you're a kid and your parents wont let you get one;

so, show them that youve done the research husbandry wise, how you will keep them, where you will keep them, how often they get fed, when you will get them out etc
show them videos of people handling and feeding (just show them juveniles so it wont seem as "scary") show them pictures of children holding them, then it'll be like "if 7yo timmy can do it so can I"
Go to a pet shop and see if you can get some hands on


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## HerpDerp (Sep 29, 2021)

Herpetology said:


> so, show them that youve done the research husbandry wise, how you will keep them, where you will keep them, how often they get fed, when you will get them out etc
> show them videos of people handling and feeding (just show them juveniles so it wont seem as "scary") show them pictures of children holding them, then it'll be like "if 7yo timmy can do it so can I"
> Go to a pet shop and see if you can get some hands on



this is some great advise. Thank you. It's true, after I did my research I felt much more comfortable and relaxed about the whole thing. It was probably a bit unreasonable to expect my partner to be cool with it going in blind.


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## JezzeMcN (Oct 1, 2021)

I had a friend say he wouldn't come to my house 2 lol. he ended up coming over and I got him not afraid of snakes like he was. as for the snake escaping they sort of always do because they go on the hunt at night but if you keep your enclosure locked you'll be fine  for me in terms of making him not scared of snakes I showed him my stimsons python first, didn't let him hold my jungle but maybe one day he will haha


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## Taeanna (Oct 1, 2021)

The fear that a snake is coming to get them seems to be the primary concern for them? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they have only ever seen snakes in media- a place that likes to use them as an 'unstoppable killer that wants me dead'.

Perhaps try and locate videos of snakes being absolutely terrible at catching their fully stationary prey and missing like idiots, or staying curled up for a whole day because they are too 'lazy' to move might help shake the idea of them being a monster assassin of toes.
Nothing budges fear quite like humor can.

Edited additional note- Perhaps some of the squeamishness around a shared freezer could be negated if you had a dedicated freezer box that is brightly colored, marked and the rodents go inside this box INSIDE another container. That way any fear of anything touching or being seen is completely removed through several layers of protection- all of which can be washed separately (in the laundry sink even if the kitchen is off-limits).


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## Water Baby (Oct 1, 2021)

My husband is scared of snakes. I have two, and my son and daughter have another seven between them. Package deal sunshine My husband trusts I won’t put the snakes near him if I’m handling them. The rest of the time he looks away.


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## subscore (Oct 2, 2021)

My partner was dead against snakes i got a baby to show her they can be tamed down yer it was a jungle too lol and hes chill as now 2 weeks after having it she wanted her own but one that was tame so to speak i went on the hunt 2 days later found her a coastal line jungle that hasnt ever tried to bite not even from the egg ( shes a buthole to get onto rats but she never bites ) so chill she gave it a go now she lets her on her head n in her hair its amazing like with a dog 1 good animal can change a view so easily


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## Sdaji (Oct 2, 2021)

If I had a partner who had a problem with snakes I'd get a new partner or spend some time single. Having said that, it's an attitude which has probably heavily contributed to me ending up single at 42 years old, haha! But I've been working with snakes since I was a young kid and over that time my girlfriends have mostly liked them or at least found them interesting. I've met a couple of girls who were interested in me but didn't want to have contact with snakes and it was just an easy way to decide not to get involved with them. I find people who are scared of snakes quickly get over it and find it interesting to be around them. When I was a teenager I found having snakes to be a massive social drawcard with everyone wanting to come and see them, and by the time I was in my early 20s I had them off limits to everyone other than a few of my closest friends or sometimes foreigners who I wanted to show something interesting to.

I've had plenty of people over the years say they wouldn't visit me because of snakes (very few as a proportion of the people I've known, but over the best part of 30 years there have been many), and a total of zero of them have actually followed through and avoided visiting me because of them. The most ophidiophobic friend I've ever had (about as extreme as ophidiophobes ever get) will even visit me as long as there are no snakes visible and they're not discussed. That's the most extreme case I've ever personally come across, I was heavily into snakes when we met at university nearly 20 years ago and we're still good friends today.


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## HerpDerp (Oct 2, 2021)

JezzeMcN said:


> I had a friend say he wouldn't come to my house 2 lol. he ended up coming over and I got him not afraid of snakes like he was.


I suspect that he is just being dramatic. I don't like birds but I wouldn't not go to someones house just because they had a bird. I mean, keep it away from me and no I don't wanna hold it or pat it but I'm not going to disavow you or anything.


JezzeMcN said:


> as for the snake escaping they sort of always do because they go on the hunt at night but if you keep your enclosure locked you'll be fine  for me in terms of making him not scared of snakes I showed him my stimsons python first, didn't let him hold my jungle but maybe one day he will haha


someone suggested going to a pet shop and handling one of the snakes on display. I think that's probably not a bad idea. that's if any pet stores have any snakes after the lockdown. lol


Taeanna said:


> The fear that a snake is coming to get them seems to be the primary concern for them? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they have only ever seen snakes in media- a place that likes to use them as an 'unstoppable killer that wants me dead'.


I suspect you are 100% correct I grew up in the country and it wasn't uncommon to find a snake sunning itself when you were out playing. Never once did they go after my toes. or any other part of my being for that matter


Taeanna said:


> Perhaps try and locate videos of snakes being absolutely terrible at catching their fully stationary prey and missing like idiots, or staying curled up for a whole day because they are too 'lazy' to move might help shake the idea of them being a monster assassin of toes.
> Nothing budges fear quite like humor can.


I tried showing him a video of a snake being fed to assuage his fear and ended up making it much worse. I don't think comedy is going to help with that too much. He will just imagine that it will be a slower more hilarious toe death than he was expecting


Taeanna said:


> Edited additional note- Perhaps some of the squeamishness around a shared freezer could be negated if you had a dedicated freezer box that is brightly colored, marked and the rodents go inside this box INSIDE another container. That way any fear of anything touching or being seen is completely removed through several layers of protection- all of which can be washed separately (in the laundry sink even if the kitchen is off-limits).


yes a few people have said stuff like that. it's really common sense actually and I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't think of it myself. 


Water Baby said:


> My husband is scared of snakes. I have two, and my son and daughter have another seven between them. Package deal sunshine My husband trusts I won’t put the snakes near him if I’m handling them. The rest of the time he looks away.


this will be my first so I think it will just take him some getting used to. I think seven might be a bit much for him at the moment 


subscore said:


> My partner was dead against snakes i got a baby to show her they can be tamed down yer it was a jungle too lol and hes chill as now 2 weeks after having it she wanted her own but one that was tame so to speak i went on the hunt 2 days later found her a coastal line jungle that hasnt ever tried to bite not even from the egg ( shes a buthole to get onto rats but she never bites ) so chill she gave it a go now she lets her on her head n in her hair its amazing like with a dog 1 good animal can change a view so easily


I don't think he'll be wanting a snake any time soon but I'm hoping that after a week or two of seeing the snake do nothing but sun itself, chill in its hide and fall off of things he will at least be a bit more relaxed


Sdaji said:


> If I had a partner who had a problem with snakes I'd get a new partner or spend some time single.


I'm probably not going to dump my partner for a snake. But I guess we will see what happens. 


Sdaji said:


> I find people who are scared of snakes quickly get over it and find it interesting to be around them. When I was a teenager I found having snakes to be a massive social drawcard with everyone wanting to come and see them, and by the time I was in my early 20s I had them off limits to everyone other than a few of my closest friends or sometimes foreigners who I wanted to show something interesting to.


agreed I suspect that the fear is merely a superficial fear related to the negative imagery in media and society. it's getting past the initial fear and getting the the interested part that I'm trying to do. 


Sdaji said:


> I've had plenty of people over the years say they wouldn't visit me because of snakes (very few as a proportion of the people I've known, but over the best part of 30 years there have been many), and a total of zero of them have actually followed through and avoided visiting me because of them.


yeah I think my partners friend is just being dramatic. I can't imagine swearing off visiting someone just because there is a specific animal in the house. well maybe like a tiger or something. 


Sdaji said:


> The most ophidiophobic friend I've ever had (about as extreme as ophidiophobes ever get) will even visit me as long as there are no snakes visible and they're not discussed. That's the most extreme case I've ever personally come across, I was heavily into snakes when we met at university nearly 20 years ago and we're still good friends today.


that is good to know  I'll use this story to convince my partner his friends aren't going to flee in terror and never speak to him again!


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## Sdaji (Oct 2, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> agreed I suspect that the fear is merely a superficial fear related to the negative imagery in media and society. it's getting past the initial fear and getting the the interested part that I'm trying to do.



Actually, humans do have genetic programming for an instinctive fear of snakes. Snake enthusiasts love to deny this, but in reality, the natural state of a human is to fear snakes. Throughout our prehistory, history and even today in most parts of the world, snakes kill more humans than any other type of animal (mosquitoes being the only exception if you count them as killing people rather than malaria etc). Our primate ancestors also were often killed by snakes, as are our living primate relatives today, as well as plenty of more distantly-related animals. You can raise a monkey without it ever seeing a snake, and if you then show it a snake as an adult it will be scared of the snake. Same deal with birds etc, and, of course, humans. The media wants ratings and will play on the human fear of snakes, but it does not cause that fear, it just capitalises on it.

Considering the fact that snakes were such a huge killer of humans throughout millions of years of our evolution, it would not make sense for humans not to have developed an instinctive fear of them. It's quite bizarre that snake enthusiasts manage to twist themselves into believing that such a thing doesn't exist. Not to mention of course the deep instinctive fear so many people show when exposed to snakes - those terrified reactions which instinctively leap out of people are so clearly in the DNA rather than learned. Part of the appeal of snakes to many people is the feeling they get when handling something which they cognitively know is not dangerous but fires off their instincts. They obviously don't usually describe it in those words or understand that's what's happening, but if you watch the reactions of people handling snakes for the first time and you understand animal behaviour (humans are just another animal), it's completely obvious what's going on, and their descriptions of the experience usually fits with it perfectly. Snake enthusiasts ourselves often don't have the same instinctive fear that typical humans do, or they overcome it while young and forget they had it, so they believe others don't have it, but it's that's about as silly as someone born blind believing that it's not normal for people to be able to see - the normal human state doesn't change because of the exceptions, and it's much easier for humans to cognitively 'unlearn' an instinctive fear than it is for animals because we have the highest faculty for doing so.


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## HerpDerp (Oct 2, 2021)

Sdaji said:


> Actually, humans do have genetic programming for an instinctive fear of snakes. Snake enthusiasts love to deny this, but in reality, the natural state of a human is to fear snakes. Throughout our prehistory, history and even today in most parts of the world, snakes kill more humans than any other type of animal (mosquitoes being the only exception if you count them as killing people rather than malaria etc). Our primate ancestors also were often killed by snakes, as are our living primate relatives today, as well as plenty of more distantly-related animals. You can raise a monkey without it ever seeing a snake, and if you then show it a snake as an adult it will be scared of the snake. Same deal with birds etc, and, of course, humans. The media wants ratings and will play on the human fear of snakes, but it does not cause that fear, it just capitalises on it.
> 
> Considering the fact that snakes were such a huge killer of humans throughout millions of years of our evolution, it would not make sense for humans not to have developed an instinctive fear of them. It's quite bizarre that snake enthusiasts manage to twist themselves into believing that such a thing doesn't exist. Not to mention of course the deep instinctive fear so many people show when exposed to snakes - those terrified reactions which instinctively leap out of people are so clearly in the DNA rather than learned. Part of the appeal of snakes to many people is the feeling they get when handling something which they cognitively know is not dangerous but fires off their instincts. They obviously don't usually describe it in those words or understand that's what's happening, but if you watch the reactions of people handling snakes for the first time and you understand animal behaviour (humans are just another animal), it's completely obvious what's going on, and their descriptions of the experience usually fits with it perfectly. Snake enthusiasts ourselves often don't have the same instinctive fear that typical humans do, or they overcome it while young and forget they had it, so they believe others don't have it, but it's that's about as silly as someone born blind believing that it's not normal for people to be able to see - the normal human state doesn't change because of the exceptions, and it's much easier for humans to cognitively 'unlearn' an instinctive fear than it is for animals because we have the highest faculty for doing so.


While that is all very philosophical, I'm not sure snakes sometimes kill people = genetic fear/instinct. 
I'm sure someone has done an actual study somewhere on the subject but I certainly don't know.

In this case though I was referring to my partner's very specific fears on the subject which by their very specific nature are unlikely to be genetic or instinctual. 

Fearing and avoiding an animal that you know to be potentially dangerous is one thing. 
Fearing that the animal will go out of its way to harm you specifically in a specific manner is quite another.


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## Sdaji (Oct 3, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> While that is all very philosophical, I'm not sure snakes sometimes kill people = genetic fear/instinct.
> I'm sure someone has done an actual study somewhere on the subject but I certainly don't know.
> 
> In this case though I was referring to my partner's very specific fears on the subject which by their very specific nature are unlikely to be genetic or instinctual.
> ...


There's nothing at all philosophical about it. The theory and empirical evidence are both very clear.

If something is a very significant danger throughout a species' entire evolution you can guarantee that species will have a genetic fear of it, which is exactly what we see in humans and our closest (and more distant relatives). It's a very clear picture filled with empirical evidence, not philosophy at all.

Humans are one of the species most able to unlearn or prevent generically-predisposed fears, but to anyone looking at the situation from a scientific view point there is no doubt about the genetic predisposition of humans to fear snakes. It's just like our predisposition to fearing heights - fear heights and you don't die from falling off cliffs. Fear snakes and you don't die from snakes. It wouldn't make any sense for humans to lack a genetic fear of these things.


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## JezzeMcN (Oct 3, 2021)

yeah man my mum was also **** scared of pythons but after holding my stimson who had never been close to biting she now thinks they're cool


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## HerpDerp (Oct 3, 2021)

JezzeMcN said:


> yeah man my mum was also **** scared of pythons but after holding my stimson who had never been close to biting she now thinks they're cool


That's really good to hear. I'm hoping for the same kind of situation


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## JezzeMcN (Oct 3, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> That's really good to hear. I'm hoping for the same kind of situation


best of luck


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## Dustproof (Oct 4, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> First of all so sorry for the spam. But I am new and I have questions.
> 
> This question, I'm not sure if it belongs here or not. So please let me know if I should delete or if I should move it to another section.
> 
> ...


I have friends who won't come to the house, I don't care about that, they are still my friends and I will go see them (When lockdown finishes). I have had some of my friends want to get over their fear of Snakes and I believe I have helped them.

Snakes do want to escape, our job is to not let them. We make sure their enclosure is escape proof as possible, we make sure it is as safe as possible for the animal as well. It is not likely that a snake will bite you whilst your sleeping, not unless it is a giant anoconda because snakes don't chew their food, they swallow whole. 

Snakes bread in captivity can be as gentle as any other pet or they might bite, it all depends on the temprement of the animal. I have a Jungle that is just over 2m long and as round as a tennis ball, I will not let anyone handle him because he is very likely to bite and do some damage. I also have several Anterasia's that are very laid back, I will allow my grand daughter to handle them because they are so gentle.

I find it amazing that we live in a country that has some of the worlds most dangerous animals and we don't know how to identify them and how to stay safe, we always think to kill them which is the best way to be killed. Snakes don't go out of their way to bite anyone, they don't hunt people, it is people who try to damage them so they defend themselves. I think your partner will learn to like them after a while when he see how well you handle them and how they respond to you. As for friends who won't visit you, it is their loss. My friends have learned now that they are in enclosures and can't get out, they now enjoy looking at them but don't want me to get them out.... lol Lets face it, Snakes aren't eveyones idea of a pet and that is fine, eveyone has their likes and dislikes but for me I believe in facing your fears to make me stronger. I hate heights, so I learned to fly a plane...... that is me though.


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## HerpDerp (Oct 4, 2021)

Dustproof said:


> I have friends who won't come to the house, I don't care about that, they are still my friends and I will go see them (When lockdown finishes). I have had some of my friends want to get over their fear of Snakes and I believe I have helped them.


when lockdown finishes... don't you mean "if".... lol


Dustproof said:


> Snakes do want to escape, our job is to not let them. We make sure their enclosure is escape proof as possible, we make sure it is as safe as possible for the animal as well.


I'm a bit surprised to hear that snakes actively try to escape. Is this a common behaviour? Are they unhappy in enclosures?


Dustproof said:


> It is not likely that a snake will bite you whilst your sleeping, not unless it is a giant anoconda because snakes don't chew their food, they swallow whole.


Yeah, I don't really think toes would make for a satisfying meal anyway. 


Dustproof said:


> I find it amazing that we live in a country that has some of the worlds most dangerous animals and we don't know how to identify them and how to stay safe, we always think to kill them which is the best way to be killed. Snakes don't go out of their way to bite anyone, they don't hunt people, it is people who try to damage them so they defend themselves.


Yes, it is a bit disturbing really. You'd think there was a bit more education in a country where most the animals can kill or seriously harm you. 


Dustproof said:


> I think your partner will learn to like them after a while when he see how well you handle them and how they respond to you. As for friends who won't visit you, it is their loss. My friends have learned now that they are in enclosures and can't get out, they now enjoy looking at them but don't want me to get them out.... lol Lets face it, Snakes aren't eveyones idea of a pet and that is fine, eveyone has their likes and dislikes but for me I believe in facing your fears to make me stronger. I hate heights, so I learned to fly a plane...... that is me though.


I think he will maybe not like them but at least wont be scared of them.


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## Herpetology (Oct 4, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> I'm a bit surprised to hear that snakes actively try to escape. Is this a common behaviour? Are they unhappy in enclosures?


they arent trying to "escape" to run away lol, theyre trying to find a way to explore, no matter your setup, theyre all going to investigate the little gaps in your enclosures


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## HerpDerp (Oct 4, 2021)

Herpetology said:


> they arent trying to "escape" to run away lol, theyre trying to find a way to explore, no matter your setup, theyre all going to investigate the little gaps in your enclosures


oh ok, well that is a relief. I was concerned there for a second. hahaha, I'd hate to keep an animal unhappy just for my own amusement.


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## Herpetology (Oct 4, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> oh ok, well that is a relief. I was concerned there for a second. hahaha, I'd hate to keep an animal unhappy just for my own amusement.


how do you judge if a snake is happy?


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## HerpDerp (Oct 4, 2021)

Herpetology said:


> how do you judge if a snake is happy?


it's not desperately trying to escape it's enclosure is probably a good sign


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 4, 2021)

My ex-wife refused to allow the boys to have a snake even though she was used to other reptiles, but after he lived with me and then moved back with a python she accepted and then liked it. Now she has no problem with them. My other son lives with me now and we have several pythons and she has no problem with them when she visits.
I might suggest getting a smaller python to start,maybe a Childrens or other Antaresia ( something that won't bite his toes lol) Antaresia are great starter snakes and most have a calm friendly attitude, I introduced my young grandchildren to these at the age of 5 & 3 , they have no fear now


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## HerpDerp (Oct 4, 2021)

dragonlover1 said:


> I might suggest getting a smaller python to start,maybe a Childrens or other Antaresia ( something that won't bite his toes lol) Antaresia are great starter snakes and most have a calm friendly attitude, I introduced my young grandchildren to these at the age of 5 & 3 , they have no fear now


I'm pretty set on a jungle, I love they way they look and I'm pretty certain I can talk him into one snake but two is probably pushing it. The snakes might start conspiring together to get his toes.


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## CF Constrictor (Oct 5, 2021)

Unfortunately even today, there are still a hell of a lot of people out there who believe the only good snake, is a dead snake. Getting certain people to believe otherwise can be a challenge. Education is the key. Best of luck.


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## Timmah (Oct 5, 2021)

Another thing you might want to try is to visit a pet store with some babies. I know petstock has a variety and sometimes has jungles, or being in Melb you could try fish and feather if you're out east. Havng him see a baby or hatching might get him a bit more used to the idea, as they're very unintimidating. My fiances mum was totally freaked out at the idea of my Stimmie, but she's seen multiple pics of him wrapped around my hand, has been in to see him in his enclosure, and is willing to maybe hold him one day. So exposure while they're small iis a good idea. I wouldn't be buying an adult if I was you!


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## CarlosTheSnake (Oct 6, 2021)

Good luck Matthew  I love my snake hes so adorable lol i hope your partner will feel the same way when you get one!


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## HerpDerp (Oct 6, 2021)

Timmah said:


> Another thing you might want to try is to visit a pet store with some babies. I know petstock has a variety and sometimes has jungles, or being in Melb you could try fish and feather if you're out east. Havng him see a baby or hatching might get him a bit more used to the idea, as they're very unintimidating. My fiances mum was totally freaked out at the idea of my Stimmie, but she's seen multiple pics of him wrapped around my hand, has been in to see him in his enclosure, and is willing to maybe hold him one day. So exposure while they're small iis a good idea. I wouldn't be buying an adult if I was you!


thank you so much
such a good idea

I'm not planning on getting an adult. But I don't want to get a brand new hatchy. I was thinking something less than a yearling.


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## Timmah (Oct 6, 2021)

Any particular reason you don't want a hatchy? One that has been raised to pinkies is pretty easy to look after and will give your partner some time to get used to before it gets big


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## HerpDerp (Oct 6, 2021)

Timmah said:


> Any particular reason you don't want a hatchy? One that has been raised to pinkies is pretty easy to look after and will give your partner some time to get used to before it gets big


If it is well established, feeding well, had a few sheds etc it shouldn't be an issue. that would make it like a few months old, yeah? how long are they still hatchys? lol


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## Timmah (Oct 6, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> If it is well established, feeding well, had a few sheds etc it shouldn't be an issue. that would make it like a few months old, yeah? how long are they still hatchys? lol



Haha yeah actually, good question. When does a hatchy become a snake?  looking at the snakes I've seen in most pet stores, they all appear to be a few months old in places like petstock, but the reptile specific places I've seen here in Adelaide have slightly younger ones. I'm guessing it's because breeders sell them slightly older to regular pet stores because they're easier to look after when they're a little older by the non reptile specific staff.


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## HerpDerp (Oct 6, 2021)

Timmah said:


> Haha yeah actually, good question. When does a hatchy become a snake?  looking at the snakes I've seen in most pet stores, they all appear to be a few months old in places like petstock, but the reptile specific places I've seen here in Adelaide have slightly younger ones. I'm guessing it's because breeders sell them slightly older to regular pet stores because they're easier to look after when they're a little older by the non reptile specific staff.


haha yeah, so pet store age (be that hatchy or some other name) would be good for me then


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## Herpetology (Oct 6, 2021)

hatchling till 6-9mths~
then juvenile till 12-18months

breeders usually sell after hatchlings have started feeding on their own (i wait for 4 feeds in a row and atleast 2 sloughs), and wont start feeding till a week or 2 after they hatch... so theyll be like 3~ months old roughly

petshops keep their animals small to keep them in their display cabinets

once you start feeding it properly you will notice the crazy growth rate and you will understand


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## HerpDerp (Oct 6, 2021)

Herpetology said:


> hatchling till 6-9mths~
> then juvenile till 12-18months
> 
> breeders usually sell after hatchlings have started feeding on their own, and wont start feeding till a week or 2 after they hatch... so theyll be like 3~ months old roughly
> ...


3 months sound like a great age for me 



Herpetology said:


> hatchling till 6-9mths~
> then juvenile till 12-18months


@Timmah well there you go, that answers that lol


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 6, 2021)

good luck


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## Susannah (Oct 7, 2021)

I know you're set on a Jungle, but I really do suggest that you consider an Antaresia. Yes, you might be lucky and never have an issue with it getting snappy, but if it does end up n being a snappy snake, all you'll hear is "I told you so, snakes are mean." Getting a more placid species to start with really will help to calm the nerves. Antaresia are amazingly docile. 

Good luck!


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## Herpetology (Oct 7, 2021)

Susannah said:


> I know you're set on a Jungle, but I really do suggest that you consider an Antaresia. Yes, you might be lucky and never have an issue with it getting snappy, but if it does end up n being a snappy snake, all you'll hear is "I told you so, snakes are mean." Getting a more placid species to start with really will help to calm the nerves. Antaresia are amazingly docile.
> 
> Good luck!


I'd have to agree

Jungles really really dont have the best reputation bite wise, and most "my snake wont stop biting" posts seem to be jungle pythons

literally any other carpet python or antaresia is a much better choice

perhaps you tell us why you like the jungle python and We can help with something similiar? assuming its the black and gold colouring, majority of all jungles are not like this


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## CarlosTheSnake (Oct 8, 2021)

tbh i dont like how jungles look lol. so sad that jags have neuro issues tho they are so beautiful


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## CF Constrictor (Oct 8, 2021)

I say get a jungle if you realy want one, their not all snappy. A cross could be another choice unless your a purist i surpose. This boys about 5 years old, about 260cm long and he's about as timid and easy going as you can get. His mum is a rather large coastal jag, and his dad is a beautiful black and gold jungle x 

diamond. He only seems to show minor signs of neurological disorder in the form of a slight tremor when he is very excited or startled (scared) by some thing. For example, he gets rather excited at feed time and occasionaly will seem to throw his head to one side just about a millisecond before he bites his dinner, and misses completely. He always gets it on the second or third strike though. Apart from that, he behaves just the same as my other two. I will not be letting him breed because of the neuro, but he does make an excellent pet.
Happy hunting.


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## HerpDerp (Oct 8, 2021)

Susannah said:


> I know you're set on a Jungle, but I really do suggest that you consider an Antaresia. Yes, you might be lucky and never have an issue with it getting snappy, but if it does end up n being a snappy snake, all you'll hear is "I told you so, snakes are mean." Getting a more placid species to start with really will help to calm the nerves. Antaresia are amazingly docile.
> 
> Good luck!



I am not concerned about them being snappy. I have a bit of experience with animals and I've been scratched, bitten, stepped on, kicked, headbutted, pecked and jumped on. 
These things happen. And my partner is not concerned about being bitten when handling, as he has no intention of handling or having anything to do with it. His concern is that snakes have some kind of malevolent sentience and that their primary motivation in life is to escape and bite people. I'm hoping that once he sees that a they are generally more interested in chilling and basking than eating his toes in his sleep he will get over it.


Herpetology said:


> Perhaps you tell us why you like the jungle python and We can help with something similiar? assuming its the black and gold colouring, majority of all jungles are not like this



I really couldn't tell you what draws me to the jungle carpets. Yes the black and gold jungles are beautiful but it's all jungles really. I think maybe a jungle was the first python I saw that made me think, "wow, I want a snake". But I can't tell you any more than I just have a vague but very strong feeling that I should get a jungle.
Probably not the answer you were expecting... Not really an answer at all to be honest. 



CarlosTheSnake said:


> tbh i dont like how jungles look lol. so sad that jags have neuro issues tho they are so beautiful



Yeah, I agree... I noped out of that pretty quick. So beautiful but snakes with neurological disorders probably shouldn't be my first snake lol



CF Constrictor said:


> I say get a jungle if you realy want one, their not all snappy. A cross could be another choice unless your a purist i surpose. This boys about 5 years old, about 260cm long and he's about as timid and easy going as you can get. His mum is a rather large coastal jag, and his dad is a beautiful black and gold jungle x View attachment 331886
> View attachment 331887
> diamond. He only seems to show minor signs of neurological disorder in the form of a slight tremor when he is very excited or startled (scared) by some thing. For example, he gets rather excited at feed time and occasionaly will seem to throw his head to one side just about a millisecond before he bites his dinner, and misses completely. He always gets it on the second or third strike though. Apart from that, he behaves just the same as my other two. I will not be letting him breed because of the neuro, but he does make an excellent pet.
> Happy hunting.



Thanks for the support @CF Constrictor  I'm very excited.


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## Brad Bouchaud (Oct 9, 2021)

Susannah said:


> I know you're set on a Jungle, but I really do suggest that you consider an Antaresia. Yes, you might be lucky and never have an issue with it getting snappy, but if it does end up n being a snappy snake, all you'll hear is "I told you so, snakes are mean." Getting a more placid species to start with really will help to calm the nerves. Antaresia are amazingly docile.
> 
> Good luck!


We have a Childrens Python and an Albino Jungle, the Childrens Python has bitten a number of times and the Jungle has only bitten once, me and it was feeding time. He held on for about half a minute before realising that he was wrapping around something way too big. No nips have ever hurt so don't be too concerned.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 9, 2021)

Brad Bouchaud said:


> We have a Childrens Python and an Albino Jungle, the Childrens Python has bitten a number of times and the Jungle has only bitten once, me and it was feeding time. He held on for about half a minute before realising that he was wrapping around something way too big. No nips have ever hurt so don't be too concerned.


small python bites don't hurt, I have been bitten by my caramel jungle more times than I can count. Lots of blood but no pain. My Antaresia's have given me the odd mistaken nibble here and there but once again no pain


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## HerpDerp (Oct 9, 2021)

Brad Bouchaud said:


> We have a Childrens Python and an Albino Jungle, the Childrens Python has bitten a number of times and the Jungle has only bitten once, me and it was feeding time. He held on for about half a minute before realising that he was wrapping around something way too big. No nips have ever hurt so don't be too concerned.


It's my understanding that the majority of snakes don't "bite" but rather "tag" (unless they mistake you for food) as there is little evolutionary benifit to biting and holding onto a predator unless you are extremely desperate. 


dragonlover1 said:


> Lots of blood but no pain.


Is it true that snakes saliva contains a anticoagulant enzyme which makes you bleed so much?


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## CF Constrictor (Oct 9, 2021)

I believe they do have anticoagulant in their saliva. Their bites don't hurt because their teeth are so damn sharp  and the bleeding isn't that bad, from my experience anyway.


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 9, 2021)

MatthewKeating said:


> It's my understanding that the majority of snakes don't "bite" but rather "tag" (unless they mistake you for food) as there is little evolutionary benifit to biting and holding onto a predator unless you are extremely desperate.
> 
> Is it true that snakes saliva contains a anticoagulant enzyme which makes you bleed so much?


as I said most of my nibbles have been mistakes, and they let go pretty quickly, my jungle was the only 1 who wanted to bite, and he would give me several bites every time; 6-8 times every time I tried to handle him


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