# Turtle



## deadflesh (Apr 25, 2008)

I'm doing a 'turtle rescue' (from a negligent owner) tomorrow (unknown turtle species) and was wondering what the general tank arrangement is.

He comes in a large 4 ft tank and the turtle is about 6-8 years old and is still very very small (palm of hand).


I know i need to organize a turtle dock, plant life, etc.
I will have small shrimp and turtle pellets.

-Turtle dock
-Rocks
- pebbles
- plants

what about heating, what temps, etc?

Oh and how often should i feed him?

I'll post a picture of him tomorrow.


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## andyscott (Apr 25, 2008)

Hi Deadflesh,
For the water temp, get a water heater and set it around 24 degrees (300 watt should do for a 4 foot tank).
Then a basking light above the dock.
As for food, give it small feeds every 2nd day to start with. Also try and get some small goldfish, fan tails would be best as they are slow moving. If it is still hungry it can hunt.
Andy


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 26, 2008)

don't get goldfish i heard that there fatty and bad for them.
and it must have been very underfed:cry:
or it could just be a tiny species... very unlikley though:cry:
poor turtle:cry:


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## kakariki (Apr 26, 2008)

I had our turtle tank set at 25 C & fed the frozen turtle dinner blocks. I gave 1 block twice a day but yours is much smaller than ours. Maybe try 1/2 that. Good luck and well done for caring enough to do something for the little fella.


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## wiz-fiz (Apr 26, 2008)

I heard that frozen turtle dinners had red meat in them that was bad for there liver or some important organ like that


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## pedro (Apr 26, 2008)

Make sure you have a good UV light or access to natural sunlight. Most important for turtles especially undersized ones.


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## Riley (Apr 26, 2008)

i was looking after longnecked freshwater turtles for a friend and fed them 1 teaspoon of pellets every 2 days. good luck


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## mrdestiny (Apr 26, 2008)

Read the fact sheet, its all there at 
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/articles/chelidae-by-craig-latta-71763
Consider joining the forum at 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs/
Good luck
Allan
http://turtletownsydney.tripod.com/


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## aqua (Apr 26, 2008)

Definitely join the yahoo group, I'd be lost with out it.


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## Riley (Apr 26, 2008)

how'd it go deadflesh?


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## deadflesh (Apr 26, 2008)

Well i got the the turtle this afternoon and I was so terribly shocked at the turtles living condition, there was black algae lining the whole tank. and it was cluttered with ornaments used for house decorations! the water level was really really low and I was shocked to see that the turtle is about double the size than originally thought, the tank is also a foot smaller than expected also. I measured him up to be about 14cms on the shell.

Anyway, I've got him some frozen turtle food and fed him, oh my god - he was ravenous, absolutely starving! His legs were so thin!!

I scrubbed the **** out the the tank and got it looking ok. I placed more resting and plant life, I will be organising a proper dock tomorrow, for the moment I have large flat topped rocks.

There was a tonne of shed scales everywhere.

The person who I had saved him from had gone interstate for the week without organising anyone to care for the turtle... and the cats that were at location (I filled their food bowls for the starving creatures).

So I had a bit of research and it turns out that the turtle is a Krefft's Freshwater turtle.

He has got a blue light for warmth and moonlight replication at the moment and I have placed him near a window for UV. He is alot happier and has started to use him back legs in some attempts at swimming, he's looking a lot better than this afternoon.


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## kakariki (Apr 26, 2008)

I hate to put a dampener on things but...ummm..:shock: did you get permission from the owner to take the turtle? I am guessing you did....hoping you did...cos if you didn't, you are in dangerous territory.


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## deadflesh (Apr 26, 2008)

I did. Lol.


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## deadflesh (Apr 26, 2008)

I had asked about it the day before yesterday, they went interstate yesterday morning.


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## Vincent21 (Apr 26, 2008)

How'd you get into the house?


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## andyscott (Apr 26, 2008)

A wise woman once posted on one of my threads something about.

There would be a lot of mistreated animals out there. As you dont have to prove that you know how to care for them when you apply for you licence... Which she thought should be mandatory.

Hang on Deadflesh that was you 
Im glad its got a new home, and now a great future ahead of it. Love to see some pics,
Cheers Andy.


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## kakariki (Apr 26, 2008)

OK...in that case..WAY TO GO GIRL!!! Too many people don't care about their animals and there needs to be more of us willing to put in the effort to take them on, even if they take up a lot of time [ and space, as in my Maggie!] Can you post pics of him and keep us updated?


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## deadflesh (Apr 26, 2008)

Yeah, the turtle was sitting in a dark and cold area under the house, so that's how I got him.

I don't have a camera at the moment, only my camera phone, but I will be able to get some by sunday - monday or tuesday at the latest. so I will keep all updated.


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## Eastern Snake Neck (Apr 27, 2008)

deadflesh,

I have just read through these posts. Your problems will be solved if you simply follow mrdestiny's advice:



mrdestiny said:


> Read the fact sheet, its all there at
> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/articles/chelidae-by-craig-latta-71763
> Consider joining the forum at
> http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs/
> ...




"Anyway, I've got him some frozen turtle food and fed him, oh my god - he was ravenous, absolutely starving! His legs were so thin!!"

Don't feed him frozen turtle dinners. They are not good for turtles, and your aim is to make this turtle better, not sicker. 

Freshwater turtles eat underwater. Therefore, anything that lives in freshwater is potential turtle food. Switch to foods such as freshwater fish, freshwater yabbies, freshwater prawns, freshwater snails and tadpoles.


"He has got a blue light for warmth and moonlight replication at the moment and I have placed him near a window for UV. He is alot happier and has started to use him back legs in some attempts at swimming, he's looking a lot better than this afternoon."

Don't keep a light on a night. Let the room be dark. That's what happens in the wild.

Putting him near a window for UV is pointless. Glass cuts out UV (have you ever had sunburn from driving in a car on a sunny day?), so a window and a tank provide two layers of UV protection.

You need to put him outside in direct sunlight for UV. When you do, make sure he also has access to water and shade - just because you want him in the sun does not mean that he wants to be in the sun.

Regards,
Michael.


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## deadflesh (Apr 27, 2008)

Eastern Snake Neck said:


> deadflesh,
> 
> I have just read through these posts. Your problems will be solved if you simply follow mrdestiny's advice:
> 
> ...




The frozen turtle food is freshwater fish and I do let it sink to the bottom before he eats it.
I have also have got him a few feeder guppys that he has been chasing around and he also has turtle pellets.

Some people don't have their windows closed.... so I'm pretty sure that UV can permeate through an open window. I do own other reptiles and understand the whole glass and uv thing.

The light is hardly even bright, its not even as bright as the moon outside, and the curtains are closed at night, so this is fine.


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## deadflesh (Apr 27, 2008)

Oh, and I don't have any problems, he is getting better not worse.


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## gillsy (Apr 27, 2008)

deadflesh wants the point of asking a question if your sarcastic in your response to someone trying to help you.


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## Eastern Snake Neck (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah, I'm with you Gillsy. I thought a simple "Thanks for your help, Michael" would have been much nicer.


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## -Peter (Apr 27, 2008)

What species is it?
You have been offered advice to two people with a wealth of knowledge. If you choose to ignore it because of your ego it negates your whole reason for taking it in the first place.
I know Michael is unmovable on his opposition to turtle fast foods but his animals are immaculate. I send hard cases to him because of his unswerving attitude.


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## hornet (Apr 28, 2008)

as said, ditch the turtle dinner, it contains red meat which will just cause other health problems for the little guy, use freshwater fish, prawns, shrimp, yabbies any mussels. Never feed it any marine species as our fresh water turtles(one exception) cant process salt.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

gillsy said:


> deadflesh wants the point of asking a question if your sarcastic in your response to someone trying to help you.




I wasn't being sarcastic......

And I'm not understanding how you perceived that I was.

Because I wasn't.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

Eastern Snake Neck said:


> Yeah, I'm with you Gillsy. I thought a simple "Thanks for your help, Michael" would have been much nicer.



I am thankful for your concern, but I cannot see where I said that I had a problem.... I didn't have problems to be solved, the previous owner did and I have not encountered any problem with providing for the little guy.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

hornet said:


> as said, ditch the turtle dinner, it contains red meat which will just cause other health problems for the little guy, use freshwater fish, prawns, shrimp, yabbies any mussels. Never feed it any marine species as our fresh water turtles(one exception) cant process salt.



Yep. I read that and don't plan on buying him any.... I have bought him pellets and live guppys, the frozen meal dinner was what the previous owner had left me, and while I was cleaning out his tank at location that was all there was to give the starving thing... better than nothing, and it helped calm him down from the stress of the whole ordeal.

Of course I will not use marine foods, these guys are local to my area, so I'm sticking to that regime.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

-Peter said:


> What species is it?
> You have been offered advice to two people with a wealth of knowledge. If you choose to ignore it because of your ego it negates your whole reason for taking it in the first place.
> I know Michael is unmovable on his opposition to turtle fast foods but his animals are immaculate. I send hard cases to him because of his unswerving attitude.



What?!

Where have I ignored advice?

The species is a Krefft's short-neck turtle... for the second time, if you had read the whole forum you would have known that.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

Eastern Snake Neck said:


> deadflesh,
> 
> I have just read through these posts. Your problems will be solved if you simply follow mrdestiny's advice:



I had also read through all of the supplied websites from Mr. Destiny before you had posted.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

Ok, so after I had him out in the sun for a while yesterday afternoon I noticed that his shell dries really quickly (within the space of 5 mins... I had to keep refreshing him because I was worried about it) and has very small scratch like marks. Is this the first sign of shell rot? Or is there some sort of shell conditioner he needs? Because I gather that he hadn't been out of water for the whole 8 years of his life and had certainly not seen the sun.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

-Peter said:


> What species is it?
> because of your ego it negates your whole reason for taking it in the first place.



You know what...
Not everything that goes on with the turtle is posted, so you have no right to either assume or criticize me. 

I don't care for your response simply because this turtle most definitely was left for dead, and more than certainly would have been dead by the time the previous owner returned from interstate.

I am spending what little money I have to rescue and provide for this guy as best as possible. The life of a university student isn't high rolling and I am leaving myself broke just so this little guy can get some better years to his life. 

The next time you start criticizing, give it a good think, go back read, and then post.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

Pictures will be ready this afternoon - I'm going to take a photo of where he was, as I am going back to location to feed the cats again.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

Here's the photos.

1. Size comparing to a guitar pick.
2. Turtle side - level.
3. Location turtle was taken from.
4. Turtle from side/above.


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## andyscott (Apr 28, 2008)

Well done Deadflesh, great pics.
It even looks like its smiling in the 2nd pic.
At least now it will get the right care.


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## deadflesh (Apr 28, 2008)

andyscott said:


> Well done Deadflesh, great pics.
> It even looks like its smiling in the 2nd pic.
> At least now it will get the right care.



Thanks, yeah... I have a lot more pics of him where he looks like he has a great big grin.

He's a cheeky lil' bugger, every time I take him out he loves to go for a stroll, and he has gone from being completely terrified when I first saw him to very enthusiastic about life and hardly even flinching when I get him out for his afternoon sun...


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## Australis (Apr 29, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> Ok, so after I had him out in the sun for a while yesterday afternoon I noticed that his shell dries really quickly (within the space of 5 mins... I had to keep refreshing him because I was worried about it) and has very small scratch like marks. Is this the first sign of shell rot? Or is there some sort of shell conditioner he needs? Because I gather that he hadn't been out of water for the whole 8 years of his life and had certainly not seen the sun.



Can you explain a bit more about the problem with how fast its shell dries?

They bask out of the water in the wild for extended periods with their shell dry
i would expect it to be dry within minutes of leaving the water, so really sounds
fine to me.


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## expansa1 (Apr 29, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> Ok, so after I had him out in the sun for a while yesterday afternoon I noticed that his shell dries really quickly (within the space of 5 mins... I had to keep refreshing him because I was worried about it) and has very small scratch like marks. Is this the first sign of shell rot? Or is there some sort of shell conditioner he needs? Because I gather that he hadn't been out of water for the whole 8 years of his life and had certainly not seen the sun.



Hi Deadflesh,
Great to see that you are concerned with the turtle's health. There is a caresheet located at http://members.optusnet.com.au/~expansa1/ that may be of assistance to you.

To be perfectly honest, the turtle looks in top condition from what I've seen in the photo's and there is nothing to worry about as far as the tiny scratches on it's shell or shell rot at all. Can you take a pic of it's plastron (underside) and tail for me and post it?

Just one other question, do the EPA know that you have taken someone's turtle that you believe weren't looking after it as they were meant to be? You may be leaving yourself open to a lawsuit (which you may not be able to afford) for taking the turtle. Agencies like the R.S.P.C.A or EPA/QPWS/ ECOACCESS are the only ones in QLD that have the power to take a reptile from someone without being charged for stealing.

Also, if you are having difficulty with finances etc, best to contact a carer or association with the financial backing and long term experience to help with your situation and look after the turtle.

Kind regards,

Craig

﻿Australian Freshwater Turtle Conservation & Research Association
www.aftcra.org.au


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## expansa1 (Apr 29, 2008)

"Just one other question, do the EPA know that you have taken someone's turtle that you believe weren't looking after it as they were meant to be? You may be leaving yourself open to a lawsuit (which you may not be able to afford) for taking the turtle. Agencies like the R.S.P.C.A or EPA/QPWS/ ECOACCESS are the only ones in QLD that have the power to take a reptile from someone without being charged for stealing"

I forgot to mention the Police and NRM&W (Natural resources Mines and Water) also have to authority to seize your reptiles although NRM&W have more power than the Police.


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## -Peter (Apr 29, 2008)

expansa1 said:


> although NRM&W have more power than the Police.



that is a vast understatement


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## Vincent21 (Apr 29, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> Here's the photos.
> 
> 1. Size comparing to a guitar pick.
> 2. Turtle side - level.
> ...



Good to see you're saving a turtles life, if i was a turtle i'd hate to be living at the previous location.


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## Homebrand91 (Apr 29, 2008)

...I like turtles


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## deadflesh (Apr 30, 2008)

expansa1 said:


> Hi Deadflesh,
> Great to see that you are concerned with the turtle's health. There is a caresheet located at http://members.optusnet.com.au/~expansa1/ that may be of assistance to you.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, the turtle looks in top condition from what I've seen in the photo's and there is nothing to worry about as far as the tiny scratches on it's shell or shell rot at all. Can you take a pic of it's plastron (underside) and tail for me and post it?
> ...




I'll take a photo of his underside for you tomorrow, when I have him out for his afternoon sun.

The turtle was practically given to me as soon as I had inquired about how he was (I had known there was a turtle but had not seen it for more than a year) and in the last year his husbandry had decreased more than expected. I knew that the turtle wasn't being treated as they are supposed to be - but I didn't know what actions I could take as the extent wasn't that extreme at that point in time, soon drifted from my mind, until recently when I heard that the previous owner was going interstate, and I decided to ask what was up with the turtle (which was very lucky, because I'd say he had less than a week left in him).

It's not that I don't have money to care for him; because I've got him a UVA, UVB light, tonnes of plant and rock life, a log, guppys and turtle pellets - it's just that I had made myself broke and had to make personal sacrifices and luxuries setting it all up for him, and I wasn't appreciating the disapproval of my actions (saving the turtle in the first place) that I had received from another user - who stated that my ego negated the reason for taking the turtle.


Sorry if there's a tonne of spelling mistakes - my damned kitten keeps jumping on my keyboard. :x

And thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

- Chantelle


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## expansa1 (Apr 30, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> (which was very lucky, because I'd say he had less than a week left in him).



Hi Chantelle,
Glad to hear all is above board and you've 'opened your heart up' for the turtle and have taken him/her in.
Just out of curiosity, why did you mention that it only had a week left in him?

Turtles don't need to eat this time of year if kept outside as water temps have dropped enough to slow their metabolism down. As mentioned before, the turtle is in good condition and is in no way skinny (very badly starved turtles like the one in the pic below show the skull under the surface of the skin). If the skull or vertebrae in the neck cannot be seen clearly then there is definitely no problems with a lack of nourishment or being too skinny. There were no signs of it being malnourished, no signs of skin infections, eye infections, shell rot or any other ailments typical of neglected turtles so I was wondering why you thought that it only had a week left in it?





Also, have you kept turtles for long?

Cheers,

Craig
ps This is a turtle that I rescued once and brought back from the brink of death. It didn't even have the strength to lift it's head and neck up.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

I'd say that turtle in the photo doesn't even have a week in him.

Like I said earlier - he improved dramatically within the day of rescue - he couldn't swim, and the hollows of his legs were more than 2 inches deep. 

I had taken those photos about 3 or 4 days after I saved him; and his condition was at least 65% better there. 

When I got him, his upper legs were so thin, and you could see it was a struggle for him to work them, but the improvement is more than dramatic. His neck was also a lot thinner. I mean; I don't know how long a turtle can last in the cold water without being able to come out and bask (and the location was colder than normal outside temps due to cementing) or without food (because he certainly didn't get the way he and his tank was within the last few weeks of cold weather), but I estimated his inner condition by calculating from the hollows of his legs (which are now about half inch deep, which I think is a lot better). He loves swimming now that he has the strength, I had to slowly increase his water level over a few days because all he could do was walk along the bottom, but once I saw him swimming a little, I increased it more, and he loves it - his upper legs are a lot thicker now. I'd say he has made at least a 95% improvement. And surely any longer in the enclosure he was in he would have developed some sort of infection and I'm relieved to see he hasn't. My boyfriend (who was with me at location) was shocked to see he had no infection either... I mean, it was absolutely rancid.

Also from the condition of the cats on location (who were located in a nicer place) I'd say the turtle was receiving less attention than even the cats - and I was scared at seeing the cats condition (one cat in particular had every single rib bone exposed - absolutely emaciated).

Even the fact that the previous owner pretty much told me to take him is an indicator.

Though he may of had more than a week in him now looking at the photo you have supplied - I'd much prefer that he didn't get to that stage. His recovery took less than a week, and I'm sure if I had the camera with me at the day and place of rescue (but my boyfriends dad had it on a trip to Mackay), you'd be quite shocked to see how much he has improved... I know I am!

But certainly - that is a bad looking turtle, I'd I'm interested to see how he progressed?

Oh, and p.s. I haven't owned any other turtles at all (otherwise I wouldn't of posted this forum for turtle information).


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## Eastern Snake Neck (May 1, 2008)

Deadflesh,

I've been keeping, rescuing and rehabilitating turtles for, ummm, a little while now... and what you claim simply defies logic. 

Firstly, turtles do not make dramatic improvements within day of rescue. They make gradual improvements over weeks or months.

Secondly, turtles take about 4 weeks to digest a meal. So to claim that this turtle fully digested a meal and converted it to body mass, thereby decreasing the depth of its limb pockets from 2 inches to half an inch, all within a week, is ludicrous.

If the limb pockets have had such a dramatic change in the space of a week, it is because the food you have given the turtle has caused it to be bloated. The change is due to a massive build up of gas, not to be confused with an improvement in the turtle's health.

Like Craig, I too looked at the photos you posted. They show a healthy looking turtle. A turtle that has been in good condition for a long period of time.

What did you think of Craig's Caresheet?

Regards,
Michael.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

I have people that can vouch for me how mistreated that turtle was, you can not simply defy what I have stated simply because you do not believe based on his condition after 3 or 4 days.

Look, you're all telling me, Oh no, dont feed a turtle frozen dinners, oh no a turtle desperately needs sunlight, oh no a turtle needs this food, oh no a turtle needs to do this....

EVERYTHING that members have said a turtle needs was not provided! 

He couldn't leave the water.
The water was too shallow.
His tank was cluttered with household ornaments.
He had no way of receiving ANY UV or heat.
His enclosure was absolutely rancid with black algae, complete with a tonne of shed scales and shell.
There was a large screw and a five cent piece in his tank.
There was many many spiderwebs climbing up the tank.

Look if you call that a turtle that has been treated well, then I'll take him back, I'll tell the previous owner "Look, you can have him back, this person says he was well looked after, keep doing what your doin' and don't worry about it".

If you're saying I'm doing the wrong thing by providing this turtle with everything that has been suggested, then fine...


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Oh and I did read the care sheet.
Did you?
Because you say it takes 4 weeks to digest and Craig states 1 - 2 weeks.
Don't tell me to read something you haven't even read yourself
I had read all the information provided and the same information was provided by Mr.Destiny at the very start of this forum.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

I didn't state it was body mass - it means his stomache isn't [deleted by Mods]empty.


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## expansa1 (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I'd say that turtle in the photo doesn't even have a week in him.
> 
> Like I said earlier - he improved dramatically within the day of rescue - he couldn't swim, and the hollows of his legs were more than 2 inches deep.



Chantelle, what you are referring to are the turtles limb pockets and they are not an indicator of whether the turtle is underweight but overweight. You see, a normal, healthy turtle has these limb pockets for it's legs to fit into. Also, through these limb pockets you can see a turtle breathing as they use muscles to breathe unlike us that have lungs maintained at a positive pressure and find it relatively easy to breathe. You can also tell if a female turtle is gravid by palpating in the rear limb pockets and feeling for eggs. A fat, unhealthy turtle doesn't have limb pockets and instead of being concave like the turtle you rescued, they are convex.

The turtle that you mentioned would only last a week, would have easily lasted 3 months at least, even without food especially this time of year! A turtle will not put on weight within a week like you are suggesting. Their metabolism is much, much slower than that!
As previously mentioned, the turtle was in perfect health and although wasn't kept in prime conditions when you found him, had obviously been well looked after up until now.

Regards,

Craig


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## Australis (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I didn't state it was body mass - it means his stomache isn't ****ing empty.




I can see people lining up to help you, honestly, really i can.


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## Jen (May 1, 2008)

Great, so we've established that the turt is ok, is he/she on license? just one more thing for you to think about.


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## hornet (May 1, 2008)

as craig said that turtle is in perfect health, just wasnt kept in the greatest conditions which shows the owners didnt really have the interest in it anymore but definatly wasnt neglected.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

He was neglected.
Have you talked to the owner about the turtle? No.
I have. Exactly. The turtle and the cats were all neglected.

The upper limb pockets are right near the intestines.


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## hornet (May 1, 2008)

from the pics he looks to be in top shape, as said its not gonna have much improvement in 4 days. Maybe neglect was the worng word to use, yes it may have been neglected but still healthy.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

expansa1 said:


> A turtle will not put on weight within a week like you are suggesting. Their metabolism is much, much slower than that!
> 
> As previously mentioned, the turtle was in perfect health and although wasn't kept in prime conditions when you found him, had obviously been well looked after up until now.
> 
> ...




1. I didn't say he has put on weight I said his hollows aren't 2 inches deep... which they were because I was mortified about it.

2. I had mentioned that I had seen the turtle a year earlier - and the only differences between then and now are: his water level was higher, the turtle was smaller, he was located upstairs - and was receiving about 5 turtle pellets once every 3-5 days. He did not have a dock, no UV, no varied diet, no heating.

I don't know what someone has to do for a turtle to get in the condition that turtle pictured was... because I know for a damned well fact that this turtle was not receiving he proper attention and care.


Look if its damned well necessary, I'll get statements from witnesses, the owner, whatever.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

hornet said:


> from the pics he looks to be in top shape, as said its not gonna have much improvement in 4 days. Maybe neglect was the worng word to use, yes it may have been neglected but still healthy.



I didn't say that he wasn't healthy - I said I was shocked to see that he had no infections, etc,


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Just observing him then, I noticed he has two small dark red dots on his skin near his shell, located above his upper right limb...

I'll try to get a photo, but any suggestions?


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Wait they look more browny red, than dark red.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

I tried to get a picture with my phone, but it didnt work out - I'll have to wait till tomorrow, with a proper camera.


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## Eastern Snake Neck (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> any suggestions?



Yes, I have some suggestions.

1. Calm down.

2. Stop being rude.

3. Don't be abusive to the people that are offering you guidance.


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## itbites (May 1, 2008)

*:shock:...I thought you posted that you don't need help as you know everything already lol... I'm not sure people will want to help when you just shoot them down like that?! Those pics you took of that turtle to me look perfectly normal... Apart from the environment not being visibly attractive I believe you are way over dramatising his condition. So don't worry that he's not going to make it through the week  I have seen a lot worse! He seems alert of a good weight and fairly clean. Does the previous owner know that you have stolen their turtle  best of luck with him cheers K *


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## Aslan (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I didn't state it was body mass - it means his stomache isn't ****ing empty.


 


deadflesh said:


> He was neglected.
> Have you talked to the owner about the turtle? No.
> I have. Exactly. The turtle and the cats were all neglected.
> 
> The upper limb pockets are right near the intestines.


 


deadflesh said:


> 1. I didn't say he has put on weight I said his hollows aren't 2 inches deep... which they were because I was mortified about it.
> 
> 2. I had mentioned that I had seen the turtle a year earlier - and the only differences between then and now are: his water level was higher, the turtle was smaller, he was located upstairs - and was receiving about 5 turtle pellets once every 3-5 days. He did not have a dock, no UV, no varied diet, no heating.
> 
> ...


 
...How to win friends and influence people...


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Eastern Snake Neck said:


> Yes, I have some suggestions.
> 
> 1. Calm down.
> 
> ...




I'm not being rude....
And nobody is offering guidance right now, only criticism.




And for the last time - I did not steal the turtle....

Look, if you all think the turtle was doing oh so fine without all the suggested care, then, I'll tell the previous owner that and he can go back - savvy.

Why should I waste my time and money on a turtle that didn't need help.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

I'm finished with this site - it's ridiculous. I'm being criticised for improving the living conditions of a turtle.

How do I get suspended?


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## itbites (May 1, 2008)

*thats not a very good attitude to have imo ...and why did you take it upon yourself to take a turtle when you obviously have no idea what to do, and no funds available ...and then get snappy with everyone else because they don't agree with your opinions. Also you stated*

 "but I cannot see where I said that I had a problem.... I didn't have problems to be solved, the previous owner did and I have not encountered any problem with providing for the little guy." :shock:


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## Australis (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I'm finished with this site - it's ridiculous. I'm being criticised for improving the living conditions of a turtle.
> 
> How do I get suspended?



Just log out if its all too much for you.


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## Eastern Snake Neck (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I'm not being rude....





deadflesh said:


> his stomache isn't ****ing empty.



Huh?


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

Ruuuude:whistle:


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

itbites said:


> *thats not a very good attitude to have imo ...and why did you take it upon yourself to take a turtle when you obviously have no idea what to do, and no funds available ...and then get snappy with everyone else because they don't agree with your opinions. Also you stated*
> 
> "but I cannot see where I said that I had a problem.... I didn't have problems to be solved, the previous owner did and I have not encountered any problem with providing for the little guy." :shock:




That's out of context - and you know it.

I took the turtle because he was given to me when I asked about how he was.

I had enough funds to care for him, just had to make sacrifices.

Don't agree with my opinions?! 

I had stated observations and my opinions were; a rotten enclosure, a owner on holiday, no sun, no dock, shallow water = bad.... how wrong is that?


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## Aslan (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> Why should I waste my time and money on a turtle that didn't need help.


 
...you forgot about _our_ time and effort as well...

People are always willing to help - which they showed - until you behave rude and arrogantly towards those offering you the correct advice...

If you no longer wish to be a part of the site it is simple - log out...


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## Australis (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I had stated observations and my opinions were; a rotten enclosure, a owner on holiday, no sun, no dock, shallow water = bad.... how wrong is that?



You forget you said it would be dead in a week, and its amazing recovery when in your care.
You got corrected on this, and then got narky.


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

Very

But! do not NOT ask for advice if you dont Listen
!


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Eastern Snake Neck said:


> Huh?




exactly. how is that rude?

it was explosive as expression - but not rude as an insult.


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Australis said:


> You forget you said it would be dead in a week, and its amazing recovery when in your care.
> You got corrected on this, and then got narky.




I did not get narky, I said that I agree, and he probably had more than a week, go bad and read before you post.


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> exactly. how is that rude?
> 
> it was explosive as expression - but not rude as an insult.



 om you didnt Read it right


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Aslan said:


> ...you forgot about _our_ time and effort as well...
> 
> People are always willing to help - which they showed - until you behave rude and arrogantly towards those offering you the correct advice...
> 
> If you no longer wish to be a part of the site it is simple - log out...




I TOOK ALL ADVICE!!!

I got grumpy when people were telling me that the way he was was fine!


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## Australis (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I did not get narky, I said that I agree, and he probably had more than a week, go bad and read before you post.



Ive read the whole thread..
Speaking of reading before you post, i did question one of your obersvations, but you failed to
respond.



deadflesh said:


> I TOOK ALL ADVICE!!!
> 
> I got grumpy when people were telling me that the way he was was fine!



Well you were wrong, no need to get narky.

I guess you might of been expecting a big pat on the back, oh well...


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

you.....not.......very.......smart......


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## deadflesh (May 1, 2008)

Look, everyone who thinks I'm being rude - damned well report me then!


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

Hahaha


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## Jen (May 1, 2008)

i thought you were leaving? not telling you to, just commenting cause you're still talking


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

Still talking she is just Yapping


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## itbites (May 1, 2008)

*Well he looks perfectly healthy to me.....and members with a great deal of turtle knowledge have also said similar.. and you openly admitted to never having owned one before, but still aren't willing to acknowledge what people are saying. *


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## Aslan (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I TOOK ALL ADVICE!!!
> 
> I got grumpy when people were telling me that the way he was was fine!


 
...of course, the people giving you that advice were people highly regarded as turtle keepers, breeders and rehabilitators - with countless years of experience...

...of course they were wrong...


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## HoffOff (May 1, 2008)

Of course Aslan-


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## Vincent21 (May 1, 2008)

deadflesh said:


> I TOOK ALL ADVICE!!!
> 
> I got grumpy when people were telling me that the way he was was fine!



Give some respect to some of the people who helped you.
If what your saying that people are saying it was fine before then let them say that, why does it matter if they say that anyway? Just ignore it.


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