# proffessional dog fights inside story last night on ch2



## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Hey all, did anyone happen to see the program on ch2 last night about the pitty's being bred for fights! :evil: It was horrible to think that something as cruel as that was/is not only going on but actually in high demand! I for one don't understand how anyone can treat animals in this way...*


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Hey, i didnt see it wish i did though!! its a topic that constantly infuriates me, you would be suprised how many people do it around the western suburbs!! They go around and try to find staffys and pitbulls that are lost and claim them as thier own and then chuck them in the ring. Staffys are the warm up dog! whop usually dies and the the pit bull is for the main fight. A friend of mines got out of the back fence near kings park and i lady found him and called my friend, and she said two people from across the road came on seperat occasions to claim poor zues as thiers. Lucky she new they were doing dog fighting so she told them to p... off


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## jack (May 27, 2008)

why do you think breeds like this exist in the first place?


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Yes they were breed to fight/ pig hunting but... its illegal. and are no longer breed "pitbulls", So it should be done. Its people on a power trip. They are giving the breed a bad name, not to mention the harm they cause them.


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Jack if you honestly believe it's okay that this is going on then... ?!?!?! Also they weren't originally bred for our amusement, they were bred as hunters/guard dogs ect... Anyone who is involved in or condones such a disgusting trade should perhaps be forced to endure the pitty's wrath in the ring(get a taste of their own medicine!) *


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## jack (May 27, 2008)

where did i state that i condoned such barbaric activities?

all i stated was that pitbulls, and the like, are breeds that were created for dogfighting...


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*The sad part about the story is the way they brushed it all off like it was no big deal and the fact that these dogs were only bred to be slaughtered by each other...Another sad part was that a little girl was mauled to death around that area not long after the initial story, by a pitbull! *


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Jack - not true, they were created for hunting, When there "so called potential" was noticed by idiots that than would be good for fighting


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Thats very true rmcneill and the cold hard truth is that if this sort of thing wasn't going on I highly doubt they would be regarded as dangerous dog like they are now. I have had pitty's that wouldn't hurt a fly, they get a bad wrap because of people who do this sort of thing. Any animal has the potential to become dangerous in the wrong conditions... *


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## BROWNS (May 27, 2008)

I know one thing i can't see properly is the writing in your post,i don't know if it's just me but everytime i see one of your posts i don't even bother trying to read it as it's really hard for me to read printing in that colour,sorry maybe it's just me i don't know and i'm sure i'd like to read what you write but i get a few words in and give up it's too much concentration whereas i can read everyone elses writing no problems!

I'm pretty sure Pityys were bred to compete in sled dragging etc and then were put in the ring o fight and it din't have to be a pitbull to go in the pit and fight they used all types of dogs however the pitbull which is a crossbreed of a bulldog and a terrier and it turned out they were the strongest and most agile in a dog fight with amazing jaw strength hence they were kept as the ultimate fighting dog however if you go way way back and look at what they called pit bulls they looked different than what we today class as a pitbull.

They still make awesome pets it's all on the owner and how their dog is trained!!I don't condone dogfighting but it's been going on for ever just like drugs and prostitution have been around forever and will be just as hard to get rid of!


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*very true browns unfortunately! and sorry I don't get hardly any complaints about my pink writing only complaints about what I have to say *


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Pitbulls were created to hunt what, exactly.


rmcneill said:


> Jack - not true, they were created for hunting, When there "so called potential" was noticed by idiots that than would be good for fighting


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*PIGS!!!! *


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## waruikazi (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> Jack - not true, they were created for hunting, When there "so called potential" was noticed by idiots that than would be good for fighting



Wrong!

They were created for pit fighting and bear/bull baiting.


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Long story short ..They secretly filmed the ring leaders over in Ireland I believe and showed just how it all operates, the people caught were taken by police for animal cruelty and may face up to 2 years jail. It's still just a drop in the ocean though! Alot more needs to be done to stop this sort of thing from going on.. *


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 27, 2008)

I saw the doco on 4 corners last night and was quite amazed at the fact they showed the fights in such graphic detail and it sickened me to watch it.
Those 2 headed dog owners should be made to fight to death in a pit..
Id pay to see that the s.o.bs....
Pitbulls dont have to be killing machines but these a holes dont care about their dogs at all..
The dogs obviously love their owners and these ..guys just let them fight to the death and if they dont die, and are badly injured, they hook them up to the electricity to euthanise them...
The fights can go for more than an hour...


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## Lonewolf (May 27, 2008)

You know, i have no problem with pitbulls.. in fact, if my hubby wasn't so rough with his dogs i'd get one.. it's the poodles i have a problem with.. still have scars from one that attcked me when i was little under my chin.. evil little doggies lol soz for the random input


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## Chris1 (May 27, 2008)

glad i didnt see it, theres some things i just cant watch.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

This quote is about AMstaffs which were breed for that same thing as pitts and are quite similar....
Although the early ancestors of this breed came from England, the development of the American Staffordshire Terrier is the story of a truly American breed. This type of dog was instrumental in the success of farmers and settlers who developed this country. They were used for general farm work, hunting wild pigs, bears, and other large game, guarding the homestead, and general companionship.​A number of the early ancestors were also developed for the "sport" of dog fighting. The extraordinary vitality of this breed is a direct result of breeding for successful fighting dogs. This now illegal activity is, unfortunately, more often cited as the early purpose of the dogs rather than the general farm work.


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

So an American Pitbull Terrier was bred to be an Aussie Pig dog, along with the well known Pommy Staffordshire Pig Terrier.:shock: P....M.....S....L:shock:


itbites said:


> *PIGS!!!! *


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Yes like I said all animals have the potential to be dangerous even poodles  And yer Chris there were some parts of the story that certainly made me feel a li'l sick in the stomache, to think people actually pay to watch this..*


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

oppps posted twice sorry


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 27, 2008)

Four corners will repeat the episode tonight, (Ithink) at 11.30


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Well cockney...I'm not too sure on the background specifics of why each breed of dog was invented lolz but yeh I've known alot of blokes to have pitty's for just this reason... *


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Completely different dog. Pitbull was bred specifically for dog fighting.


rmcneill said:


> This quote is about AMstaffs which were breed for that same thing as pitts and are quite similar....
> 
> Although the early ancestors of this breed came from England, the development of the American Staffordshire Terrier is the story of a truly American breed. This type of dog was instrumental in the success of farmers and settlers who developed this country. They were used for general farm work, hunting wild pigs, bears, and other large game, guarding the homestead, and general companionship.​A number of the early ancestors were also developed for the "sport" of dog fighting. The extraordinary vitality of this breed is a direct result of breeding for successful fighting dogs. This now illegal activity is, unfortunately, more often cited as the early purpose of the dogs rather than the general farm work.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Is anyone posting that they are breed originally for fighting, Accessed the info on there history correctly through the american pitbull club of australia? or the American staffordshire club of australia? or the ACA?


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Wheres the proof to back that up cockney?..I'm highly interested to see where you get your information from...*


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Its not a completky different dog! they are technically 1st cousins! do you own both of them???


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## waruikazi (May 27, 2008)

itbites said:


> *Wheres the proof to back that up cockney?..I'm highly interested to see where you get your information from...*



If you search pitbull breed history you will find two stories. One swears black and blue that they were bred soley for hunting and one that says they were bred soley for fighting.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. But there were and still are many dogs that are far more efficient at hunting than the pitbull, but not more efficient fighters.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Waru - i agree, you will find to completly different stories. But they are good hunters i can say that for sure because I hunt with mine. They are strong enough to take out a wild boar easily, and are certainaitly quick enough. To say they are good fighters is only because they are renouned for there obsession to please there owners. They are taken advantage of because they love you that much they will die for you in the ring if you ask them to. Its really really sad people abuse this trait the pit bull has, rather than making it a posative thing


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## waruikazi (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> Waru - i agree, you will find to completly different stories. But they are good hunters i can say that for sure because I hunt with mine. They are strong enough to take out a wild boar easily, and are certainaitly quick enough. To say they are good fighters is only because they are renouned for there obsession to please there owners. They are taken advantage of because they love you that much they will die for you in the ring if you ask them to. Its really really sad people abuse this trait the pit bull has, rather than making it a posative thing



I agree with you it is a very sad and disgusting thing to do to take advantage of their loyalty and temperament. I don't own a pitty and i don't hunt my dogs but i have been hunting with friends dogs and although for their size they are good for hunting they are by no means the best IMO.


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Sentimental crap. Adog does not fight because Mumsy wants him to, its because he wants to tear the other dogs lungs out. Its the culmination of a thousand years breeding of Mastiffs and nutcase terriers, a more volatile mix you wont find.


rmcneill said:


> Waru - i agree, you will find to completly different stories. But they are good hunters i can say that for sure because I hunt with mine. They are strong enough to take out a wild boar easily, and are certainaitly quick enough. To say they are good fighters is only because they are renouned for there obsession to please there owners. They are taken advantage of because they love you that much they will die for you in the ring if you ask them to. Its really really sad people abuse this trait the pit bull has, rather than making it a posative thing


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Cockney - do you own pitt bulls?


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Point..


rmcneill said:


> Cockney - do you own pitt bulls?


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

I want to know if you own any? clearly you dont.


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Cockney your opinions/comments make it sound as though you agree with what they are doing to these poor creatures..no one disputes that they are hunters/fighters. My thread is saying how horrible it is that they are doing this, not there fighting/hunting capabilities!!!*


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Anyone who is willing to breed pitty's purely to be killing machine for their own sick pleasures should be jailed!*


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

They are hunters and they are fighters, there is no question about that. What disturbs me most is ill educated people assuming they are a mauling machine, which is crap. I really think that people who fight them have some serious issues going on upstairs, most of them are on power trips, like the people that let there agressive pit bulls of there leads purely to attack another in public.


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Ridgebacks & Roties. POINT!!!!!!!!!!!


rmcneill said:


> I want to know if you own any? clearly you dont.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

ridgeback and rotties are not pittbulls, Dont get me started on rotties!! one decided to remove my calf muscle with his teeth when i was 6


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

*POINT!!!!*


rmcneill said:


> ridgeback and rotties are not pittbulls, Dont get me started on rotties!! one decided to remove my calf muscle with his teeth when i was 6


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## Minka (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> ridgeback and rotties are not pittbulls, Dont get me started on rotties!! one decided to remove my calf muscle with his teeth when i was 6


 

Rotties are great dogs, trust mine with my life. Its sad a few bad mishaps bring the whole breed down.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

point is dont comment on why or why not pitts fight when you dont have one, havent owned one, and dont fight them...You could possible know why they fight unless you are a dog whisperer which i doubt. And to say they fight to rip the other dogs lungs out.... do some reserch on why exactly they do that. I think you will find itd not though agression but through the pain they are put through.


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Minka - i dont doubt they are great! just had a bad experiance. Same as pit bulls other peoples miss haps make the whole breed frowed upon. Punish the deed not the breed.


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

People lose the plot so easily. Amazing...My only point was they were bred for fighting.


itbites said:


> *Cockney your opinions/comments make it sound as though you agree with what they are doing to these poor creatures..no one disputes that they are hunters/fighters. My thread is saying how horrible it is that they are doing this, not there fighting/hunting capabilities!!!*


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 27, 2008)

Why they fight is not the issue, some fight because they are scared of being ripped apart, others fight because they very good at it...
surely no one reason would go for all dogs..
Anyway...
The point of the doco was to expose the business..so if you dindt see it,,watch the repeat and comment on the actual show, which was really well done i thought..
jmo


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Some times i purposely walk past particular houses that i know are doing it and its frigtening to hear, i cant imagin watching it.


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## thals (May 27, 2008)

I believe pitties were originally bred for bullbaiting, then dog fighting a lil later on..

Either way, we should all be against the inhumane act of dog-fighting, it's by no means fair on the animal to have to be put in that position, and the [email protected] responsible for this should be behind bars at the very least!

Anywho, Bazza, you mentioned that show was gonna be on again tonight yea?? Not looking forward to the graphic details, but am interested to see what they have to say..


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## nuthn2do (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> Some times i purposely walk past particular houses that i know are doing it and its frigtening to hear, i cant imagin watching it.


They are holding dog fights and you just walk past and listen? :shock:


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## cockney red (May 27, 2008)

Bleeding heart sentimental crap. Opinion was in post, its called breeding. Anthropomorphism rules.


rmcneill said:


> point is dont comment on why or why not pitts fight when you dont have one, havent owned one, and dont fight them...You could possible know why they fight unless you are a dog whisperer which i doubt. And to say they fight to rip the other dogs lungs out.... do some reserch on why exactly they do that. I think you will find itd not though agression but through the pain they are put through.


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## Dipcdame (May 27, 2008)

The following is extracted from the Australian branch of the American Pit Bull Association:- Link to it is: 

http://www.pitbull.org.au/history.htm

Oh, and my slant on this? ANYONE who sees fit to do this to these poor animals should, as was said earlier, be put into a ring themselves and left to the mercy of the very dogs they train to do this sort of thing. DON'T jail them, that means we have to pay for their keep through our taxes, show them the comapssion they show the animals in their "care".


For those ill-informed souls, it may be worth looking this up before further comment:- 


Whether or not fanciers of the breed want to acknowledge it, besides long history as a working dog, the American Pit Bull Terrier’s heritage is deeply rooted in the sport of dog fighting. As objectionable and barbaric as this history may be, to reject this historical truth is to fail to understand the source of many of the qualities that have helped the breed to flourish. To understand the modern dog one must understand the negative aspects of its history that led to development of those traits.


Early Origins

During the time of Minos in Crete the sport of bull baiting was quite a popular form of entertainment. This sport was developed as a part of the worship practice in honor of the warrior god "Mithras".

During this time, most dogs were wild and ferocious by nature. As the Roman tribes of the time conquered and moved across the land, they also took the sport with them. Due to the selective breeding of the best dogs, a distinctive breed began to emerge. 




The Bulldog

The bulldog part of the APBT was not the bulldog of today. The bulldog of several centuries ago was an agile, muscular dog of medium size, quite capable of participating in the bull-baiting and bear-baiting events of the time. Bulldogs were admired for their tenacity, gameness and their tolerance of pain - all good attributes for dogs battling foes many times their size.


Whether or not fanciers of the breed want to acknowledge it, besides long history as a working dog, the American Pit Bull Terrier’s heritage is deeply rooted in the sport of dog fighting. As objectionable and barbaric as this history may be, to reject this historical truth is to fail to understand the source of many of the qualities that have helped the breed to flourish. To understand the modern dog one must understand the negative aspects of its history that led to development of those traits.


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## thals (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> Some times i purposely walk past particular houses that i know are doing it and its frigtening to hear, i cant imagin watching it.



hey Rhiann, if you're certain you know they're involved in it, why not dob the a holes in?? You'd remain anonymous so I wouldn't worry too much. I know I bloody would, those people sicken me :evil:


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Nuthn- unfortunatly thier is not much i can do, i have dobbed them in several times, but they know its me. they also know i have pittbulls and a new baby amstaff which would be perfect for the to turn into a machine, the thought of them taking my babys and putting them in the ring sickens me... Thier is nothing else i can do


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## thals (May 27, 2008)

and nothings been done after they've been dobbed in?? Would be so frustrating!!


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## wiz-fiz (May 27, 2008)

my dog, squiggy(check out "pics of pets!) could become dangerous if you train/mistreat her will become dangerousm, shes had a go at a friends uncle that I was meeting for the first time and when we shook hands she tried to bite his stomach and probably could maul someone quite bad she was already drawing blood before she was 1 year old(when my brother annoyed/played stupid games with her she would just get annoyed and bite him and he would have minor scabs(the ones you get from thistle minor)(she was around 6 months I think)


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## Dipcdame (May 27, 2008)

there is ALWAYS something that can be done about it rmcneill there's the rspca, the police, and the tv current affairs programs, there's always someone willing to expose these morons, but it needs the likes of us to stir someone into action, (but remember to hide your baby first) maybe keeping her inside would be beneficial


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

They apparently seized the first lot of dogs about 1yr a bit ago, but they are still doing it!


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## thals (May 27, 2008)

Nah, I know where you're coming from, not against you or anythin, just saying i can understand how pi$$ed off you'd be that's all...

It's really sad knowing these low lifes can get away with this in our day & age


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Thanks for that info dipcdame  ...I believe all dogs in a friendly environment are mush puppies I have had staffy's pitty's and currently have a rottyxridgeback ALL my dogs have been sooky la la's..It's a matter of how you treat the animal IMO *


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 27, 2008)

do you still have the note?


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

I know its mega sad and i know another group of ppl that do it in kings park


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

Yeah of course i do! my little storm means means the world if anyone took her i dont know what id do. Its also scary how they now i have her, coz i dont let her out side unless im with her and no one can see in


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## amazonian (May 27, 2008)

In order to determine whether the dog is game or a cur it must be rolled 
(a match fight not fought to the death like you read about)
If you breed pittbulls you will want the best of the breed just like you would want the best of Jungles or Childrens in this hobby if they were your preffered species (in this case the trait aimed for in the breed is gameness). In order to determine this along with any aknowledgement of bloodlines the dog must be tested, and to do this involves a fighting ring.

However there is a difference between matching a pair of dogs to test their attributes (read rolling), and fighting them to the death (read fighting). A breeder will know when to pull his dog from the match because it has proven itself one way or another and only rolls his dogs when introducing a new bloodline of unknown gamness. This not only shows the breeder it's gameness but also gives any future prospective buyers an indication of the bloodline. Worse outcome of teh rool is 2 game dogs that neither backed down and a few cuts & bruises. No different then a boxing match.

A money hungry shark however will fight them and does not care what bloodline he has as long as it's a killer. He has no feelings for the dog and it is simply a money making tool to him. There can be only 1 winner and most cases end in a mentally/physically broken or dead dog.


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*And is this legal????? I still think it's horrible even to "test their gameness" as you put it!*


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## wiz-fiz (May 27, 2008)

If you ask me they only attack things because people of the past wanted them to protect stuff so they breed the most aggresive female with the most agressive male = something bred to protect stuff

so if the people of the past wanted them as lapdogs they would have done this


calmest male+calmest female=calmest pitty


now people of today aren't that bright, so they make them fight thinking thats what they were bred for


so it = 1 badly injured dog and 1 dead dog=:cry::crysadness)


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## amazonian (May 27, 2008)

Of course it is illegal today.
I was mainly talking about a time when even alcohol was illegal lol.
Anyway the breed is well & truly developed now & their is no need to roll them anymore IMO. You can say I am against fighting them now but I do condone the practice in the early breedings of the APBT back in the days. Infact I would probably agree with todays breeders also IF their practice was for the same results and not a case of rolling animals that are already established & known. Anyway It was the practice of these old timers from the late 1800's & early 1900's that gave us what we cherish in the APBT, gameness. Without them we would be buying dogs of unknown backgrounds with unknown traits displaying unknown behaviour. Atleast because of them we know they were bred for gameness (not fighting, but gameness for bull baiting, hunting, guarding etc). 

My post was to educate the masses posting here that have no idea about the breed, their background or the fighting but simply respond on hearsay & media hype and label the animals as viscious killers that were bred to fight, when the fact is they are far from it. Infact having more tolerance of pain makes them even better to have around children that like to pull ears, bite tails and stuff like that lol


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## wood_nymph (May 27, 2008)

the worst thing about the situation is that when the people are caught the punishment isn't that harsh as is the cases with the majority of animal curelty cases. these people are running huge rigns and what do they get? dogs taken away and put to sleep (dogs they can easily replace), short jail term more commonly probation and fines. considering how much money they make out of it and how horrific it is these so called punishments don't really seem to fit the crime do they?


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

i seen it, was interesting story.
its not just dogs that we make to fight, pretty much any animal that us humans can raz up to fight.
some dogs were bred to just hunt & kill.
here's a list i pulled from wikipedia that has all the dog breeds that were origanally breed for dog fighting at some stage of there history-


A
Akita Inu 
Alangu Mastiff 
Alano Español 
Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog 
American Bulldog 
American Pit Bull Terrier 
American Staffordshire Terrier 
Argentine Dogo 

B
Bedlington Terrier 
Blue Paul Terrier 
Boston Terrier 
Boxer 
Bull and Terrier 
Bull Terrier 
Bully Kutta 

C
Cordoba Fighting Dog (extinct) 
Cane Corso 

D
Dogue de Bordeaux 
Dogo Cubano 
Dogo Sardesco

E
English Bulldog 
English Mastiff 
English White Terrier (extinct) 

F
Fila Brasileiro 

G
Gull Dong 
Gull Terr 

I
Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier 

K
Korea Jindo Dog 

L
Lottatore Brindisino 

M
Molossus (dog)

N
Neapolitan Mastiff

O
Old English Bulldog (extinct)

P
Perro de Presa Canario (Canary Dog) 
Perro de Presa Mallorquin (Ca de Bou) 
Pugnaces Britanniae 

R
Rottweiler 

S
Shar Pei 
Staffordshire Bull Terrier 

T
Tosa Inu 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog


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## FNQ_Snake (May 27, 2008)

rmcneill said:


> Some times i purposely walk past particular houses that i know are doing it and its frigtening to hear, i cant imagin watching it.



Garbage!

Oh, and if it is true, what have you done about it?

I still reckon what you said is garbage!


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## Earthling (May 27, 2008)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> i seen it, was interesting story.
> its not just dogs that we make to fight, pretty much any animal that us humans can raz up to fight.
> some dogs were bred to just hunt & kill.


 
Exactly whitey.....pretty much any animal that us humans can raz up to fight.

Supposedly humans have evolved enough to not condone this brutal slaying of innocents. But why do we have laws/morals against this with dogs, but not humans?
Dont we send humans to fight, to kill, to the death...in war.

Is their a likeness between breeding and fighting dogs and breeding people and sending them to war to fight other people?
Supposedly we individuals have free will to decide to go to war...or....is the idea of patrionism and dieing for your country 'put' into many people who are willing and do go to war?
Far as I can see the supposed 'free will' is the only difference...or is it?

One could argue that if pitbulls are bred to fight they are doing just what they like doing. No different to someone who wants/likes to go to war. Some people are just providing the pitbulls the oppurtunity to fight.

As to the 'to the death' part...dont we do that in war between humans? To the death. Oh thats right, war is a defending of ourselves/country/ideals....or for Oil...or for economic gain..or for greed. All points that are done by western countries to go and kill people, so why not economic gain ffrom dogs that kill dogs?

Im not trying to defend/condone dog fights here, but Im trying to understand why its ok for humans to organise people to kill people, but not ok for humans to organise dogs to kill dogs.


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## FNQ_Snake (May 27, 2008)

amazonian said:


> Of course it is illegal today.
> I was mainly talking about a time when even alcohol was illegal lol.



I didn't think we had prohibition in Australia.


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## amazonian (May 27, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> I didn't think we had prohibition in Australia.


I didn't think we created the American Pittbull Terrier in Australia.


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## FNQ_Snake (May 27, 2008)

amazonian said:


> I didn't think that the American Pittbull terrier was created in Australia.



Ha ha, don't know where some people are getting there facts from.

lol


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## amazonian (May 27, 2008)

I think I read on the net or a book somewhere that the American Pit bull was created in of all places America lol. But who am I to argue? especially with a person of your calibre lol 

Anyway, I have kept Jeep, Reid, Tyson, Sorrell, old family rednose & Redboy bloodlines.
I have read just about every book on the species & have had contacts of fighting men. I am not claiming to be a know it all but I do have a sound knowledge on the subject, whereas you on the other hand seem to know stuff all and maybe this is why your posts have been sarcastic & mocking?


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## FNQ_Snake (May 27, 2008)

Wow, now where did they get there info from? Surely American Pitbull wasn't a clue. LOL.


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Earthling i'm not going to even try and say why one thing is okay and another isn't or what ever it is you were trying to say...All I can suggest is that you watch the program tonight and then you will understand the difference????? *


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## amazonian (May 27, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> Wow, now where did they get there info from? Surely American Pitbull wasn't a clue. LOL.


 
Mate whats the point of going around in circles and making a fool of yourself?
Your baiting is of the wrong flavour buddy, I'm not going to bite.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

amazonian said:


> Mate whats the point of going around in circles and making a fool of yourself?
> Your baiting is of the wrong flavour buddy, I'm not going to bite.



looks like ya swallowed the hook already mate.


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## Darbs (May 27, 2008)

It was a very good program, worth watching.


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## mozi (May 27, 2008)

Very sad show - it broke my heart when the guy hooked the dog up to the electricity to try and kill it. Those sort of people are a waste of oxygen!!


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

seen a few of these fights, the blades straped to there feet can get mesy.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

i think in asia they have bears vs dogs and all sorts of animals blueing against each other.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

this is an interesting clip of a natural wildlife fight between hyenas vs lions. from youtube.

[video=youtube;TNL1MR5aj1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNL1MR5aj1w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNL1MR5aj1w[/video]

and more of the end fight with the big male at the end.

[video=youtube;aIVgKIuISx4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIVgKIuISx4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIVgKIuISx4[/video]

and i think this one is amazing you have to watch the whole thing! i cant beleive they caught it all on tape. this has to be the luckest buffalo!

[video=youtube;pcQxrE4wGqY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcQxrE4wGqY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcQxrE4wGqY[/video]


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## wiz-fiz (May 27, 2008)

cruel, just cruel:cry:.(gonna leave it at that because I don't want to get suspended again and I have to go to bed


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## FNQ_Snake (May 27, 2008)

amazonian said:


> Mate whats the point of going around in circles and making a fool of yourself?
> Your baiting is of the wrong flavour buddy, I'm not going to bite.



Not real sure what you are talking about mate. I can't see where I have mentioned American Pitbulls origin? 

I am confused.

All I said was something about prohibition and now I am mistaking origin of the AMPB? Hmmmnn.

:?


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

these bears can blue!
[video=youtube;N7vvkloC-Ac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac[/video]

this caribou should of just ran for it!
[video=youtube;kdTdp7Ep6AM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTdp7Ep6AM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTdp7Ep6AM[/video]

hope i never meet a polar bear like this fella.
[video=youtube;Ob_oD1IsYbE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob_oD1IsYbE&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob_oD1IsYbE&feature=related[/video]

one of the most amazing things is watching killer whales hunt. i dont understand why they play with em before killing and eating them?
[video=youtube;pNnx_X5ue2c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnx_X5ue2c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnx_X5ue2c[/video]
the David Attenborough doco "the blue planet" has captured some awsome footage of killer whales in action! one of my favs!
[video=youtube;5pCuUPLs2tc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCuUPLs2tc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCuUPLs2tc[/video]


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 27, 2008)

killer whales hunt and eat everything from bait fish to seals, great whites,other whales and dolphins. they are very smart hunters.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (May 27, 2008)

> cruel, just cruel:cry:


From the mouths of babes, (no offence will)..
I fully agree with will here..Just because animals tear into each other in the wild does not make me condone putting two in a pit for 'sport'..
Nothing does...
As far as this subject goes I'm a bleeding heart and proud of it..


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## rmcneill (May 27, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> Garbage!
> 
> Oh, and if it is true, what have you done about it?
> 
> I still reckon what you said is garbage!



Garbage???? i wish, you have absolutly no idea, i have reported them twice so far, like i said there dogs were removed and they recived a slap on the wrist! Come and live in lovely werribee where people set fire to your car for fun and then tell me garbage!


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## Earthling (May 27, 2008)

itbites said:


> *Earthling i'm not going to even try and say why one thing is okay and another isn't or what ever it is you were trying to say...All I can suggest is that you watch the program tonight and then you will understand the difference????? *


Fortunately I dont have a TV, its been around 8 years of bliss.....perhaps you could tell me the difference. Im sure there is a difference between one type of condoned cruelty and another that is not condoned...I 'feel' there is a difference, but I cannot see it...please enlighten me.
Without trying to impact on your expression, is it possible that you could write it in something a bit easier to read then hot pink please?


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*Sorry hon hot pink all the way  Well i can't really be tossed to type much if you can't figure out that dogs have no conception of whats going on and are just thrown into a ring for our amusement, compared to people who volunteer to go kill other people all for the sake of land....then theres no point explaining in depth to you my reasons for feeling the way I do  Now considering you have no tv and find that bliss i'm curious as to why you have internet?????  *


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## dragon lady (May 27, 2008)

i took in a dog....pure bull terrier,be 18 yrs ago...
it lost its 1st fight...the owner was about to give it a present....a bullet
i had to bag his head to get it to the vet...he had internal damage,& huge wound to his throat
the vet didn't want the dog in his clinic
administered drugs out side....steroids(to stop the vomiting) that was all he'd give him
took 3 months for his wounds to completely heal...allot of TLC

probably the most devoted dog i could ever get....after he trusted me

animal fighting is prehistoric ...glad they have laws to enforce to stop it
unfortunately ...80% of the animals cant be retrained ...& have to be destroyed


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## itbites (May 27, 2008)

*For anyone who's interested they are replaying last nights story on ch2 at the moment....very sad indeed *


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## kakariki (May 28, 2008)

I just watched a few of the you tube vids on BSL & Pit Bull fights. I cried! I honestly cannot, for the life of me, understand how humans, who are supposed to be the higher life form, can do this stuff. Where is the compassion? And others have the gall to call for a ban on certain breeds, which are as they are because of us! I had a bloke come up to me while I was parked at the local shops. In my vehicle were my 2 dogs and my kids. This man approached and naturally my dogs warned him to stay clear of the vehicle. He saw Aragorn & asked if he could use him to breed from. Ordinarily I'd have been flattered but he went on to say he wanted a " nasty pittie type " for his girl! No prizes for guessing where the pups were headed. Aragorn is a Dane X Mastiff & he is VERY protective of what he considers is his. But nasty? No. Could he fight & injure & kill? Absolutely but I am a responsible owner who TRAINS for obedience and good behaviour NOT for aggression. As was said, Punish the deed, not the breed! Heavier penalties are needed and we must stand up against such horrific atrocities. Dogs may be mans best friend but some of us are most certainly not theirs!! I missed the program but thanks itbites for the thread, horrible & sad as it is.


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## Earthling (May 28, 2008)

itbites said:


> *Sorry hon hot pink all the way  Well i can't really be tossed to type much if you can't figure out that dogs have no conception of whats going on and are just thrown into a ring for our amusement, compared to people who volunteer to go kill other people all for the sake of land....then theres no point explaining in depth to you my reasons for feeling the way I do  Now considering you have no tv and find that bliss i'm curious as to why you have internet?????  *


 
"Hot pink all the way", thats OK, we sometimes must make allowances for people to express who they truely are.

I noticed you said before that people usually have complaints about what you say, not the colour...is that because you usually go on the defense and use a condescending attitude, like you just have now in your comment towards my post? If so, its understandable that most people react negatively towards your remarks.

I have the interent and not the TV as I personally I found the TV caused drug like behaviour in myself and I also observed these effects from others when watching it. Blank stare, uncommunicative, not interested in the immediate surrounding area/events..and usually spend time talking about subjects with no glimmer of true reality. 
The interent I find, is the opposite for me. I use the internet to find information that assists me to live today and tomorow and to learn from my past mistakes, therefore increasing my awareness of immediate surrounding area/events, increasing communication, increasing my understanding (when people are willing to assist in that process with good communication) of the world and reality around me. 
Vast difference between the TV and internet for myself. Does that answer your question?

Regarding the dog/human/ethical issue which was the main reason for my previous comments in this thread.
You say "dogs have no idea whats going on". From my experience with Pitbulls, they usually have a very good idea of whats going on. They are a dog that shows awareness and interest in the going on of the environment around them. I can not see why that would not include a dog fight. If anything it would highten their awareness, as it does in most animals when in 'fight mode'.
Unless you mean they have no idea of what the fight is about for us humans. Maybe they do and maybe they dont, as I was saying before, a dog such as a pitbull which is supposedly bred to fight is doing what it is made for...its 'higher purpose' if you will. Now if humans get a thrill out of that or money, so be it, no difference then humans sending humans to fight to the death (war). The dog is doing what it was bred by us humans for, its inner purpose to fight.

Comparing pitbulls to people volunteering to go and kill other people for the sake of land or power or money or for its because what they need to do. These humans are choosing to kill other humans. Supposedly that choice is free will. I would argue that its because thats their in built drive, their need, their desire to protect, to kill. Humans then use their free will to achieve that in built drive, that desire. Something in these humans, their 'higher purpose' shall we say? Just like a Pitbulls a higher purpose? To protect, to kill. If true, which I think it is, then my comparison is valid. 
Then providing the pitbull an arena to serve their purpose then what is wrong with that? No different then providing an arena for the human showing similiar traits to serve their purpose.


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## ishka (May 28, 2008)

itbites said:


> *Thats very true rmcneill and the cold hard truth is that if this sort of thing wasn't going on I highly doubt they would be regarded as dangerous dog like they are now. I have had pitty's that wouldn't hurt a fly, they get a bad wrap because of people who do this sort of thing. Any animal has the potential to become dangerous in the wrong conditions... *



I disagree... I don't believe the current situation with Breed Specific Legislation has anything to do with dog fighting. Pit Bulls are considered a dangerous breed due to the number of attacks on humans, not other dogs. It is easy to sit here and blame the dog fighters for the problems like breed specific legislation... they are low life people, the scum of the earth... and yes, they do deserve experience the pain they put their dogs through... but no, the BSL is in no way their doing. The BSL in this country has been caused by 2 groups, the first one, Pit Bull Owners. Now before all you pitbull owners start flaming me, i am not talking about the owners out there who know the breed, have well trained dogs and understand that the fighting instincts have been bred in to these dogs over countless years and is always going to be a part of the breed. I am talking about owners who have not done the training, just bought the pup because it was cute without researching the breed and do irresponsible things like leave their young children unsupervised with the dog... these are the people that due to irresponsible pet ownership are causing the attacks and therefore, the BSL. The second group responsible for the BSL, the media. Pit bull attacks make a good story.... seriously, what sounds better, "girl get nipped by unknown crossbreed" or "infant get viciously maulled by pitbull"... I can't think of one dog attack story in the last 12 months that has involved what was allegadly a pitbull, yet you see footage on the news of the culprit and half the time the dog looks nothing like a pitbull. But that is th media for you... never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Oops... got a bit off topic there!!


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## itbites (May 28, 2008)

*I'm not about to sit here and type an essay on why I don't condone this sort of sadistic ritual! I know the difference between right and wrong..and what these sicko's are doing is wrong!!!!! Also Earthing if you found my post **condescending* *that's not what I was intending, I am truely curious as to why you think that tv is so different from internet? IMO internet is more "drug like" and anti-social tha tv....but your entittled to your opinion  as I am mine.......Also Ishka it is because breeding agressive pitty's with agressive pitty's that they get this "killer" dog......an AMERICAN PITBULL in loving conditions does not display those traits and so there for pitty's are not a dangerous breed the people who own and mis-treat them are....My close friend is a groomer, she deals with all types inc pitty's and has had more bites/attacks with smaller breeds ie jack russels, foxy's.*


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## bundy_zigg (May 28, 2008)

Most dog attacks are not pitbulls!!!!!! cross breeds are for the most part the colprits. Its just easier to pin it on a breed that most people fear! dog to dog agression is natural, but it is PEOPLE who train them to use it not ignore it!!!! dogs are preditors even little itybity dogs, its how they are raised that makes them who they are. i am talking from experience!, my beautiful boy never had training and was treated like and equal and there for took on the role of boss of the house once i realised the problem(first bite on another dog) it was too late. we took him to trainers and none could curb his dog(not to people) agression. He was sadly put down and it was all MY fult not his!! training an understanding a dogs place is what will stop them turning bad not what breed they are!!! My heart goes out to all animals that suffer at the hands of humans! It is not just pittbulls that are used in dog fights they are a small percentage of dogs there are many breeds used.


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## Soldiers_Girl (May 28, 2008)

I can think of an attack in the last 12 months that wasn't pit bulls, it was the lady that was killed by her neighbours 3 Bull Mastiffs after she jumped the fence to get something out of their yard.


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## bundy_zigg (May 28, 2008)

stupid woman!! her fult


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## bundy_zigg (May 28, 2008)

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. (_"Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog,"_ Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)


They must have mixed it up, i bet it was a pittbull!!


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## waruikazi (May 28, 2008)

Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).


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## Mystery (May 28, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).



They are a beautiful gentle dog - I love them. I remember going to the vet a few years ago, I had to go out the back to get my dog from the kennel. I spotted a greyhound around the corner on this little grassed section, she was looking very sad and lonely. I asked the vet why she was there. She was used for blood transfusions, that was all. Very sad.
I have 7 dogs, I would like to be able to save them all but it's not practical.


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## NinaPeas (May 28, 2008)

I don't care why there were originally bred, or what 3 breeds they came from, or who owns what.

All I care about is that In this day and age it's sad to see people still find a sport in dog fighting, and I wish all the people involved were fined heavily or jailed.


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## Isis (May 28, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Everyone gets all up in arms about dog fighting but not many people get upset about the greyhounds. Do people realise that greyhounds are more often than not killed if they don't perform, get injured or are just too old? (And too old is generally just over a year).



There is the greyhound adoption programme as well as a lot of the smaller trainers keep their dogs until old age. Granted there is a lot of dogs put down but there is also a lot going on to stop or cut down this practice. Also too old is not generally one year, more like 4-5 yrs. We still have our old race dogs and one is nearing 11. There is a lot of good people in the greyhound industry so please dont generalise. I know in vic they are trying to bring in more regulations to cut down needless euthing of dogs.


Also couldnt agree more with Ishka....


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## ihaveherps (May 28, 2008)

I dont know why I bother even entering this thread, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway. Before I get jumped on for being pro-fighting, I am not, I just understand where they come from. I may sound somewhat for the practice of fighting dogs, but I am just trying to put some information across.

Amazonian, Im with you most of the way, I have owned propper Pitty's, not the big pretty red-noses and such you see around, but a propper game bred pitty, and have had a fair bit to do with them, and can tell you that they are only called "American Pit Bull Terriers" because that is the place that first registered them as a breed. The linage of the Pitbull is deeply seeded in the UK, although the yanks are largely responsible for the larger frame we associate with the breed today, they were originally a much smaller dog.

Anyone who believes that Pittys were bred for pigging or bull-baiting are slightly confused. The pit-bull is a purpose built fighting dog, it may have been partially derived from bull-baiters, but a few breeds were added to the mix at that point, to align stamina and build to the lock-jaw of the baiters. Most dont realise that the staffy is nothing more than a domestic quality pitty... and that the Amstaff was just a re-build of a pitty ( not a perfect re-build, as the Irish white terrier had become extinct by that point in time, and is proven via the throwback of rottie colours in some pups which are supposed to be euthanased.... the rottie plays no part in the pit-bulls make-up), both of these breeds are supposed to be safe when it comes to the BSL in regards to pittys. I could keep going....

Fighting dogs like was shown in the show is nothing more than barbaric. There is actually a set of rules to fighting dogs, that seems to have been thrown by the wayside at some point. A real dogman, be it fighting dogs, or hunting dogs, loves their animals, in some cases more than their own child, and would not risk the life of their dogs unnecessarily, but it seems the hillbillys have taken over the game, and the animals suffer for the humans neglect. I could go on and on about the rules, why do you think the pit walls are only 3ft ? so they can bail if not up for it.... if a dog turns 3 times, it is also automatic disqualification, as it is a sign of lack of game..... owners can pull a dog that isnt up for the match at any time..... the list goes on. It seems that the real dogmen have gone the way of the dodo though.

I have never rolled a dog i have owned, although I have bought from good stock, and pups that had won kennel scraps before weaning ( not pitted but normal highrachy stuff ). My Pittys were the most loyal dogs i have ever known, good with kids, good with people, and if another dog was in the frame he would just walk up, lean forward, sniff, turn their heads to show their lack of fear.... if the other dog didnt take the opportunity or show agression then it all disolved and they were sweet. 

I dont usually post this long, but I have no time for the ignorant. Anyone who hunts with dogs will tell you, a pitty has no place on a pig, they let go and try to fight them, not a good thing when you face up to a set of hooks, bacon doesnt discriminate. Fighting dogs are fighting dogs, and there is no breed in the world that has had as much effort put into kurbing man biting as the pit-bull has. BSL is crap, when i know that the pitty is almost gone here, I promise I will get good lines, and keep them going. All the anti-pitty posse, do your homework, and do some research into temprement testing, and post the list for us.... lets see how your safe labrador scratches up againts a pitty.

Herpies.


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## Dipcdame (May 28, 2008)

to whiteyluvsrum - you stated in your list of dogs bred for fighting, the english mastiff. this breed was actually originally bred by gamekeepers for personal protection. This was in the days when the death penalty applied to poachers when caughy. With so much at stake, gamekeepers lives were at risk because poachers would rather 'do away; with the threat of being caught and ultimately executed. Therefore, the gamekeepers developed a dog with strong haunches that would think nothing of bringing down a man and holding him till the gamekeeper could catch them up, ensuring the gamekeepers safety. The dogs were bred for strength and courage, NOT dogfighting, or fighting of any other sort.

Although I must admit, I find it hard to belive when I look at my fur-baby who is a shepherd cross english mastiff, a big boofy baby, who is scared of old ladies, and thunderstorms!! He's a 'gentle giant' who looks after my granddaughters when they are in the garden with him.


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## alex_c (May 28, 2008)

american bulldog shouldnt be in there either because they are a working dog bred to catch pigs,cattle etc.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 28, 2008)

Dipcdame said:


> to whiteyluvsrum - you stated in your list of dogs bred for fighting, the english mastiff. this breed was actually originally bred by gamekeepers for personal protection. This was in the days when the death penalty applied to poachers when caughy. With so much at stake, gamekeepers lives were at risk because poachers would rather 'do away; with the threat of being caught and ultimately executed. Therefore, the gamekeepers developed a dog with strong haunches that would think nothing of bringing down a man and holding him till the gamekeeper could catch them up, ensuring the gamekeepers safety.



dipcdame- i didnt state anything, its called copy and paste. pulled straight from wikipedia like i said on my post. heres the link again- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog
and it said that the breeds listed were used for dog fighting at some stage of there history. didnt say they were breed origanally for fighting alone.
its probably true about gamekeeper stuff but here is another pull from wiki about the history of the english mastiff-


The Mastiff name probably evolved from the Anglo-Saxon word "masty", meaning "powerful". The Mastiff is descended from the ancient Alaunt and Molosser and is recognized as the oldest British breed. The Mastiff might have been brought to Britain in the 6th century BC. It was used in the blood sports of bear-baiting, bull-baiting, DOG FIGHTING, and lion-baiting. Throughout its long history, the Mastiff has contributed to the development of a number of dog breeds.

When Sir Peers Legh was wounded in the Battle of Agincourt, his Mastiff stood over and protected him for many hours through the battle. Although Legh later died, the Mastiff returned to Legh's home and was the foundation of the Lyme Hall Mastiffs. Five centuries later this pedigree figured prominently in founding the modern breed.[3]

Some evidence exists that the Mastiff came to America on the Mayflower but the breed's documented entry to America did not occur until the late 1800s.

In 1835, the Parliament of the United Kingdom implemented an Act called the Cruelty to Animals Act 1835, which prohibited the baiting of animals. Subsequently, the Mastiff lost popularity and was virtually decimated in England by the Second World War; however, sufficient numbers had been brought to America by that time to keep the breed going. Since that time, it has gradually been restored in Britain.

heres the link for that too-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Mastiff


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 28, 2008)

alex_c said:


> american bulldog shouldnt be in there either because they are a working dog bred to catch pigs,cattle etc.



same answer again alex, the list is from wiki and it lists the dogs that were used to fight at some stage of there history. dosnt say they were breed for soley fighting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog


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## Dipcdame (May 28, 2008)

taken from mastiffweb.com


In the fifteenth century a large part of the English population were desperately poor. Many people starved to death while the upper class (and the royalty) were enjoying a life in luxury. The common way to keep this system intact, was to have incredibly unfair tax-laws, and to take advantage of political and religious power. There was so little food for the common man, that the only way to survive was to hunt for animals. The upper classes also were the owners of the most important forest areas, and it was illegal to hunt there. Some landowners had their own popular rich-man's hobby. They raised or caught deer and other desirable animals to hunt, and let them lose in the forest. A few days later they would trace them, and kill them, just for the "fun" of it. With all these animals running around in the forests, the temptation became too big for some of the poor. Illegal hunting often was a problem for the landowners, a problem they really wanted to solve, no matter what. So they used mastiffs! The mastiffs were trained to scare hungry hunters off the landowner's property. A new law was also written in those days. The mastiff was the only dog that was allowed to be inside the properties of the landowners. These dogs were then, as now, someone you wouldn't like to have as your enemy. In addition to this, the mastiff was used as a hunting dog for bigger animals during the middle ages. 

*As the modern interest for dogs awoke in the first part of the 20th century, only a very small number of mastiffs still existed*. A few people in England decided to try as hard as they could to save the breed from disappearing for good. They started rebuilding the mastiff by mixing blood from shorthaired St. Bernhards. This was necessary to produce enough healthy puppies. This gave some good results. Right before the second world war, the breed wasn't that rare any longer. Dog shows with high quality mastiffs was not unusual. It looked like the crisis was over. Then the war started, a disaster for dogs, especially the big ones. They simply ate too much in a time when food was a luxury...

After the second world war the mastiff was almost gone again. In October 1946 fifteen enthusiastic mastiff-lovers gathered for the first time since 1939. The meeting took place in London, and was the beginning of an almost hopeless mission; to save the English mastiff from extinction. They promised each other to do all in their might to prevent this from happening. Their first task was tracing all living mastiffs in the country, and if possible making sure that puppies were born. This didn't give the requested results, basically because most of the twenty dogs that still were alive were too old to reproduce themselves. A male called Tarsus became the father of three litters with 18 puppies, but only one (!) of these survived. *At the end of 1947 only seven dogs were still alive in England. This situation led to a visit to the USA in order to cooperate with the Americans. It turned out that the breed was so rare and of such poor quality in the US as well, that no dogs were brought back to England. *In 1948 two promising puppies from District of Columbia (USA) were sent to England, and these two individuals created the foundation that prevented the breed from disappearing. In 1949 there were 15 mastiffs in the country, and in 1950 the number was approximately 50. The mastiff was saved! To achieve this one had to make use of other breeds with familiar outlook, background and history: Great Dane, Bullmastiff and St. Bernhard. These breeds were the most natural to use, since they are reckoned to be close relatives to the mastiff.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 28, 2008)

thats was a great read and i believe it all, but the pull from wiki dated back to the 6th century BC. your pull only starts from the 15 century. there is a good 900 years in between these. so what im trying to say is we are both correct. the english mastiff was used for dog fighting sometime after the 6th century in britain. so there for the english mastiff was used for dog fighting at some stage of there history. hence why they are listed down. you haven't presented anything that would be otherwise.


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## ishka (May 29, 2008)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> same answer again alex, the list is from wiki and it lists the dogs that were used to fight at some stage of there history. dosnt say they were breed for soley fighting.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_dog



I know that list came from wiki but it seems to me to be a pretty pointless list (not picking on you whitey, but on the person who posted it on wiki) i think we would probably find that every breed has been used by some idiot at some stage to see if they were any good at fighting so i imagine every breed should be on that list, i'm guessing that it is just that some breeds have been fought with more success than others


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 29, 2008)

ishka said:


> I know that list came from wiki but it seems to me to be a pretty pointless list (not picking on you whitey, but on the person who posted it on wiki) i think we would probably find that every breed has been used by some idiot at some stage to see if they were any good at fighting so i imagine every breed should be on that list, i'm guessing that it is just that some breeds have been fought with more success than others



i think the list is accurate, there are alot of other dog breeds that wouldn't be suitable at all for fighting and if they were to be used at fighting it would more likley be a suicide for em and the other more suitable fighting dog would have no worries ending em quickly.
but there probably is a few other breeds that arn't listed that people have razed up to blue something. but they wouldn't have been any good at fighting because they are not known fighting dogs.


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## smeejason (May 29, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> I dont know why I bother even entering this thread, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway. Before I get jumped on for being pro-fighting, I am not, I just understand where they come from. I may sound somewhat for the practice of fighting dogs, but I am just trying to put some information across.
> 
> Amazonian, Im with you most of the way, I have owned propper Pitty's, not the big pretty red-noses and such you see around, but a propper game bred pitty, and have had a fair bit to do with them, and can tell you that they are only called "American Pit Bull Terriers" because that is the place that first registered them as a breed. The linage of the Pitbull is deeply seeded in the UK, although the yanks are largely responsible for the larger frame we associate with the breed today, they were originally a much smaller dog.
> 
> ...


thank god someone that knows what is going on stated some facts. Have always had game bred dogs and all that own pitties staffies or am staffs owe there temperement to the men and women that game bred them. not my cup of tea at all and i never did or would fight my dogs but a dog that wants and is bred to fight other dogs will never see a person as a threat.. mark my word i have seen the decline in staffordshire temprement since the old guard has past on and the breed now lets curs breed and they will start to bite people more and more.


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## jessb (May 29, 2008)

ihaveherps said:


> All the anti-pitty posse, do your homework, and do some research into temprement testing, and post the list for us.... lets see how your safe labrador scratches up againts a pitty.
> 
> Herpies.


 
Herps, If you want to leave your kids alone in a room with a pitbull that's up to you, but I'm going to stick with our gorgeous Lab who has never growled, only ever barked at possums and bandicoots and has had our daughter crawling over her since she was a baby. 

They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.

It's worth keeping in mind that one of the major issues with pitbulls is not only that they may or may not be more likely to attack - but with their strong jaws, they are capable of FAR more damage in a short time than many other breeds...


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## waruikazi (May 29, 2008)

jessb said:


> Herps, If you want to leave your kids alone in a room with a pitbull that's up to you, but I'm going to stick with our gorgeous Lab who has never growled, only ever barked at possums and bandicoots and has had our daughter crawling over her since she was a baby.
> 
> They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.
> 
> It's worth keeping in mind that one of the major issues with pitbulls is not only that they may or may not be more likely to attack - but with their strong jaws, they are capable of FAR more damage in a short time than many other breeds...



Labs have killed before...


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## jessb (May 29, 2008)

waruikazi said:


> Labs have killed before...


 

Yeah - I don't think anyone is denying that there can be a few loonies - but as they are the most popular pet breed in almost every country, the attacks don't even rate statistically.


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## ihaveherps (May 29, 2008)

jessb said:


> They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.



Ah, and then comes the golden sentence.... If you are fool enough to trust any dog implicitly, then thats at your own folly. Of course, every time you see the media slug a pitty attack, they always say "It was a vicious man killing machine, it displayed agression at every opportunity, and my child shouldnt have been anywhere near it" give me a break. Half the attacks blamed on the breed arent even pittys. 

All your labrador rhetoric has zero basis in fact. As far as being the most popular pet breed in almost every country, I beg to differ. There would be more pittys in Blacktown alone, than Labradors in the entire country. In the US, somewhere in the order of 2 - 4 milloin pittys are destroyed each yr, most of them for the reason of being alive. How about you open your other eye and research some facts before dribbling in this thread, your one-eyed opinion (not fact) is wearing thin.

Did you know that even miniature horses have a higher pass rate through temperament testing than Labradors, even when applied to assisting the visually impared? Heres one for you, go check how a pitty went in the tests. Bigots like you have sent a breed underground where it has festered and become what it is today. If the stimga wasnt there, these dogs may have been in alot better hands.


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 29, 2008)

the 2nd table on this site has stastickly ranked the lab up there.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf


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## rmcneill (May 29, 2008)

Is this the face of a killer? Nooo just a happy Pitty


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## whiteyluvsrum (May 29, 2008)

The most popular dog breed in America (in 2007) is the Labrador Retriever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_attack


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## ihaveherps (May 29, 2008)

lol touche Whitey.... damn underground dogs!


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## jessb (May 29, 2008)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> the 2nd table on this site has stastickly ranked the lab up there.
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf


 
Hardly an indictment of the Lab! According to this study there has been ONE fatal Lab attack as opposed to 66 pitbull and 39 Rottie attacks, when Labs have been the most popularly registered dog in the UK and US (and I'm pretty sure, Australia but I couldn't be bothered to keep looking up stats) for years on end... I'll let you guys work out the percentages there, but I know what I'd rather have in my house as a pet! 

http://www.akc.org/reg/dogreg_stats.cfm
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=885

It doesn't really support the argument that Labs are savage killers up there with pitbulls, when they use them as guide dogs and assistance dogs!


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## dragon lady (May 29, 2008)

too many persecute the breed...not the handler/keeper!


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## ishka (May 30, 2008)

jessb said:


> Herps, If you want to leave your kids alone in a room with a pitbull that's up to you, but I'm going to stick with our gorgeous Lab who has never growled, only ever barked at possums and bandicoots and has had our daughter crawling over her since she was a baby.
> 
> They are now both 3 (daughter) and 3 1/2 (Lab) and are inseparable. I don't hesitate leaving them alone together and have never had a moment's concern.



Exactly the point i was making in my first post on this thread... is leaving a kid alone with a pitty a good idea? Certainly not! But in my opinion, nor is it a bright idea to leave a lab alone with a child (or any other breed for that matter).No matter how good a dog's temperament, like all living creatures they are capable of being unpredictable. Statistics for attacks by dogs on young children show that more often than not the attack is from their own family pet. These parents did not leave the child with the dog thinking that it was capable of attacking, but because they had the "He's a good boy, he's never bitten, he doesn't growl, he can be trusted attitude" they then unfortunately learn the hard way that they are wrong. Most of these attacks with young children do not happen becasue "the dog is aggressive" but because they see the child as a threat to their position with in the "pack".... fighting dog or not, no matter what breed you talk about this pack mentality is a natural instinct in all breeds.

What each person chooses to do with their dogs and children is of course there own choice and i would not be one to tell other's that they should do things the way i do but to me my daughter's life is priceless, i have a beautiful dog with a great temperament who is not a biter/growler/fighter, but nothing in life is guarenteed when your talking about the temperament of any animal (humans included) so i am not about to leave the 2 of them alone together just incase i'm wrong... it's too high a price to pay. Even if the dog has never put a paw out of line, there is a first time for everything


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## cockney red (May 30, 2008)

So much bollox being talked about peoples "wubby dubby little babies" its gagging. 
Lets enter the real world devoid of Anphropomorphism.
"ANY" dog in a given situation, is a threat to anything ranging from ankles, to life.
Lets dismiss now, for the sake of argument, the lap dogs, and ankle biters, who however, are more than capable of inflicting serious harm on babies and toddlers.
I have, as said before, three dogs. I will rate them honestly.
Rottie bitch. 6 years old. As with most rots & GSD'S i've kept over the years, she is highly strung, and anyone looking from the outside would be truely scared of her. She is very protective, of all that is hers. In my opinion she would not hurt anyone once past the introductory stage. However, i would not trust her with anyone, outside the immediate family.
Ridgeback x Mastiff. 6 years old. Magnificent dog. My best mate! All he wants to do is play with his ball. However he hates other male dogs, & i've lost count of the times I've plled him off other game dogs that have had a go at him. Mostly when he,s on the lead.
Pedigree Ridgeback. 5 years old. 70 killo's pure muscle. So strong its scary. Bred out bush for pigging. Bigger softy you'll never meet. Charles Atlas of ridgies. Beautiful temprement.
I'M 99% sure of all of them. But 99% is not enough...........is it.


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## itbites (May 30, 2008)

cockney red said:


> So much bollox being talked about peoples "wubby dubby little babies" its gagging.
> Lets enter the real world devoid of Anphropomorphism.
> "ANY" dog in a given situation, is a threat to anything ranging from ankles, to life.
> Lets dismiss now, for the sake of argument, the lap dogs, and ankle biters, who however, are more than capable of inflicting serious harm on babies and toddlers.
> ...


 

*OK Dr cockney .... *


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## pseudechis4740 (May 30, 2008)

Yeah I saw the show. It was on 'four corners' I think. The footage of those ten week old pups tearing each other to pieces until one was dead was shocking. Anyone who thinks this sort of activity is ok is totally warped and should be placed on the receiving end of one these dogs. All dogs can be unpredictable but saying pitty's were bred for this sort of activity is total crap!


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## Zdogs (May 30, 2008)

dragon lady said:


> too many persecute the breed...not the handler/keeper!



Spot on!



> It doesn't really support the argument that Labs are *savage killers* up there with pitbulls, when they use them as guide dogs and assistance dogs!


APBT'S are also used as assistance dogs, Search And Rescue (SAR), Explosives and Narcotic Detection among so many others things too!
Now If they were "savage killers" they wouldn't be out there working amongst people

I know what I'd rather have by my side! My ever faithful, loyal, loving, spirited and comedian pit


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