# 400+ species found in feral cats stomachs



## RoryBreaker (Feb 12, 2015)

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2015/02/10/4177135.htm

Some selected paragraphs from the article.

"Virtually every reptile, small mammal and bird in Australia is vulnerable to cat predation so they're a really serious threat," he told the SA Late Afternoons program."I've found some amazing animals inside the stomachs of cats, ranging from perentie lizards to large snakes and a whole range of different marsupials, from bilbies and wallabies down to tiny little marsupials."

"I've had cats weighing just over three kilograms, which is pretty small for a domestic cat, with up to 30 different lizards in its stomach," Dr Read said.

Some food for thought.

Cheers


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 12, 2015)

Local councils, and the state and federal government wildlife agencies (NPs etc) need to get serious about exterminating feral and roaming cats. 

Too many cat owners don't give a toss about what their cats do when allowed to roam at will at all hours of the day and night and our wonderful and unique fauna are paying a terrible price for it.


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## Alexbee (Feb 12, 2015)

Yeah its time to start removing these animals, if its out of its yard it should be put down


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 12, 2015)

Alexbee said:


> Yeah its time to start removing these animals, if its out of its yard it should be put down


 These destructive murderous vermin climb over fences so I'd go as far as saying if it's outside it's owner's house or it's ENCLOSED ESCAPE PROOF cat run, it should be fair game to kill it. I don't care who's pet it might be.

I also think that steps should be taken to drive cats to extinction in Australia by requiring owners have permits to keep them (and not more than 1 per household) and all kittens be sterilised immediately at birth or be put down.

Very heavy fines need to be applied and enforced for those who allow their cats to breed, to roam outside their home or cat run and cats caught roaming should be compulsorily put down by the council's vet on capture. Local councils are always saying that they need more money, so, here's an way for them to raise those extra dollars they so sorely need to maintain roads, parks, etc other than by bumping up rand rates as much.


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## sacred_DUC (Feb 13, 2015)

foxes feral dogs have bounties in victoria atm why not add cats, always seems to change opinions when you mention cats.
many of us could live off $1 a scalp for cats


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## Kopeht (Feb 13, 2015)

This article brings up a valid point to those who still believe snakes are incredibly destructive. I had a discussion with one person after they had seen the jungle around my shoulders about their apparent "destructive" nature. Needless to say, at least that chicken you had lost one time didn't have a serious impact on the ecosystem and welfare of local wildlife.


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm totally for a ban on free ranging cats,don't get me wrong I love all animals but cats do so much damage and the owners don't give a s*&$.
I just found another turtle dove carcase this morning in my backyard,which is a worry to me as I have free range chickens as well as my dragons in the yard.
6' high metal fences don't keep them out so what are we supposed to do?
Dogs have to be locked up,why not cats?


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 14, 2015)

dragonlover1 said:


> I'm totally for a ban on free ranging cats,don't get me wrong I love all animals but cats do so much damage and the owners don't give a s*&$.
> I just found another turtle dove carcase this morning in my backyard,which is a worry to me as I have free range chickens as well as my dragons in the yard.
> 6' high metal fences don't keep them out so what are we supposed to do?
> Dogs have to be locked up,why not cats?


What you shouldn't do is - buy a trap, capture the cats that are coming onto your property, torturing , maiming and murdering and never eating the native fauna you might be lucky enough to have on your properly only to follow the rules and hand them over the local council's ranger to take away, he'll simply return the mongrel to the owner if he can identify the owner or they come forward and collect it., and you'll be right back where you started and have bugger all chance of ever trapping it again. Worse the owner can expect is some fines (if not chipped, not collared, not registered and that's all  .... )

IMO probably best to sort the cats out permanently and STEALTHFULLY yourself. (And I don't mean take it for a long drive and dump it --- that only moves the problem somewhere else.)

It's been my experience that you simply can not reason with deadbeat cat owners who insist on letting their cats roam at will day and night. Pointless even trying.


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## princessparrot (Feb 14, 2015)

As much as I love and respect animals I have never liked cats. The only cat I have a liking for is my sisters ragdoll kitten and even with her and the fact that she's always inside I'm still very cautious about her where abouts and worried about the safety of my pets


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 14, 2015)

princessparrot said:


> As much as I love and respect animals I have never liked cats. The only cat I have a liking for is my sisters ragdoll kitten and even with her and the fact that she's always inside I'm still very cautious about her where abouts and worried about the safety of my pets


You should be (scared for the safety of your pets), I personally know of an example where a house cat managed to get an enclosure open and then got one at a time each of a friends pet jacky dragons out and proceeded to torture them to death, from a colony of 4 jackys only one survived only because the owner came home and discovered the cat in the act. The surviving jacky dragon soon developed a serious RI and SI from the penetrating bite and claw injuries (nasty bacteria in a cats mouth and on it's claws) and was soon dead despite intense antibiotic IM treatment.

It doesn't matter how well fed and satisfied cats are , they will still attack, torture ,.and kill small animals , not because they're hungry, but because the pyscho murderous mungrels seem to enjoy it, and just because it's a kitten , doesn't mean it wont do this given the chance. Your pets (presumeably all captive bred reptiles) will have not fear of the cat having never experienced fear or seen a predator and so will have less than no chance when (not if) that cat gets into it's head it would be fun to attack them. 

If I were you I'd make sure the door to the room where your pets are housed remains closed at all times , or even better, I'd dispose of the cat.


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## snakemisstress (Feb 14, 2015)

but cats are so cute >.<


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## princessparrot (Feb 14, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> You should be (scared for the safety of your pets), I personally know of an example where a house cat managed to get an enclosure open and then got one at a time each of a friends pet jacky dragons out and proceeded to torture them to death, from a colony of 4 jackys only one survived only because the owner came home and discovered the cat in the act. The surviving jacky dragon soon developed a serious RI and SI from the penetrating bite and claw injuries (nasty bacteria in a cats mouth and on it's claws) and was soon dead despite intense antibiotic IM treatment.
> 
> It doesn't matter how well fed and satisfied cats are , they will still attack, torture ,.and kill small animals , not because they're hungry, but because the pyscho murderous mungrels seem to enjoy it, and just because it's a kitten , doesn't mean it wont do this given the chance. Your pets (presumeably all captive bred reptiles) will have not fear of the cat having never experienced fear or seen a predator and so will have less than no chance when (not if) that cat gets into it's head it would be fun to attack them.
> 
> If I were you I'd make sure the door to the room where your pets are housed remains closed at all times , or even better, I'd dispose of the cat.


At least she's more scared of the birds then they are of her(ATM) but I think that May wear off.I tried to talk my mum and dad out of letting her get one for my pets sake as all of them are animals they commonly prey on(birds, fish, frog, lizards, snake and a guinea pig :O . And then add to that the fact that my brother is allergic to cats and that she has never looked after any of her own pets in the past(rabbits, guinea pigs including our current one, birds(which she still has one of) and a dog that she still has). And the fact that nearly all of my birds are hand raised and had free roam of most of the house I think it's abit unfair to them

- - - Updated - - -



snakemisstress said:


> but cats are so cute >.<


I know they're cute but they're not nice. It's quite often the cuter/prettier things that are the worst


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## snakemisstress (Feb 14, 2015)

princessparrot said:


> I know they're cute but they're not nice. It's quite often the cuter/prettier things that are the worst



that explains me then


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 14, 2015)

snakemisstress said:


> but cats are so cute >.<



cute...sure.. nothing but murderers and vandals


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## RoryBreaker (Feb 14, 2015)

I couldn't resist.


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 14, 2015)

As kittens maybe, but still noxious vermin and an introduced predatory pest that needs to be exterminated.


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## Dlemr (Feb 19, 2015)

It's up to the owners to look after their animals. Keep them within their property boundaries and bring them in at night. If done properly there should be no damage (although not all owners are the same)

I can honestly say my cat is allowed outside during the day, and due to the fact that she's always outside with me, has never caught anything short of a fly.

All it takes is the time to supervise the cat :/
I won't confine my cat indoors, personally I see it as cruel.

- - - Updated - - -

Although I've got two people in my street alone that have outdoor cats 24/7. Things look rough as guts. I don't really see them as their cats, all they do is put food out. I hear them out fighting at night.

I've been working with Sydney bases relocation groups. Still working on a colony in Illawong. All have had their shots and have been neutered so far. Managed to rehome 8 of them. 3 more to go and they'll be gone. Hopefully helpful for natives around the area.


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## Umbral (Feb 19, 2015)

I agree that cats should all be sterilised so that we can slowly get then out of this country. As an alternative option I think they should allow bandicoots to be kept on licence as from what I have heard they stay playful like a kitten for their entire life, in my mind that's a much better option.


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## mmafan555 (Mar 11, 2015)

Cats/Felines are the ultimate evolutionary monsters....I don't think my Dog would kill me if I suddenly shrank to 2lbs and was tiny, but my cat would probably eat me without a second thought....They are just wired that way....They are natures ultimate land predators.

Most Australian small reptiles/amphibians/marsupials have not evolved with top level predators like Cats so they have no defense against them.

I personally don't see what's so hard about keeping indoor cats....I've had several Cats and Dogs in my life and my cats were ALWAYS indoor cats....


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 11, 2015)

mmafan555 said:


> Cats/Felines are the ultimate evolutionary monsters....I don't think my Dog would kill me if I suddenly shrank to 2lbs and was tiny, but my cat would probably eat me without a second thought....They are just wired that way....They are natures ultimate land predators.
> 
> Most Australian small reptiles/amphibians/marsupials have not evolved with top level predators like Cats so they have no defense against them.
> 
> I personally don't see what's so hard about keeping indoor cats....I've had several Cats and Dogs in my life and my cats were ALWAYS indoor cats....




There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY cats NEED to be allowed outside AT ANY TIME. They can live out their entire lives quite happily inside a house and suffer no ill effects.

It's only the pigheaded stubborn stupidity of cat owners and gutless local councils who are scared of loosing votes if they impose harsh penalties on cat owners who refuse to keep their cats inside at all times that has allowed this problem to remain a problem.

Personally I'd like to see a bounty imposed on all cats who are allowed to roam. People who let their cats roam should have their cats taken off them and the cats destroyed.


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## zack13 (Mar 11, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY cats NEED to be allowed outside AT ANY TIME. They can live out their entire lives quite happily inside a house and suffer no ill effects.
> 
> It's only the pigheaded stubborn stupidity of cat owners and gutless local councils who are scared of loosing votes if they impose harsh penalties on cat owners who refuse to keep their cats inside at all times that has allowed this problem to remain a problem.
> 
> Personally I'd like to see a bounty imposed on all cats who are allowed to roam. People who let their cats roam should have their cats taken off them and the cats destroyed.



I think that is a bit much. The cats shouldn't have to be destroyed because the owner is negligent. Just rehome the cat.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 11, 2015)

zack13 said:


> I think that is a bit much. The cats shouldn't have to be destroyed because the owner is negligent. Just rehome the cat.


 rehoming the murderous mungrels doesn't reduce the national population of cats so wont cut it IMO.


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## MesseNoire (Mar 11, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> rehoming the murderous mungrels doesn't reduce the national population of cats so wont cut it IMO.



Your hate is so irrational.
Im sure the cats are intentionally going out of their way and conspiring with one another to completely destroy entire species.


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## Sean_L (Mar 11, 2015)

Your ignorance is disturbing. Cats *ARE* INTENTIONALLY GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO KILL THINGS!!! Have you read any of this thread? Cats kill because they like to stick their claws and teeth into small creatures. For fun. They THOROUGHLY enjoy it. Its sickening.

If a cat wonders onto my property, can't explain why, but its never seen again. 

Just think, it could be yours next...........


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## Native_EWD (Mar 11, 2015)

Humans do more damage, lets start trapping and killing them


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## Sean_L (Mar 11, 2015)

That's a pretty typical attitude. Something else is worse, so why bother at all. It doesn't help to achieve anything though.

The fact is, its much simpler to impose tough rules on cat owners (and indeed any pet owners) (but ESPECIALLY CATS!!!) than it is to execute stupid or unlawful human beings. Granted, the latter would solve problems faster, but there's a lot more paperwork involved. 

Register all cats! Treat stray cats like stray dogs. That's just for starters.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 11, 2015)

Sean_L said:


> Your ignorance is disturbing. Cats *ARE* INTENTIONALLY GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO KILL THINGS!!! Have you read any of this thread? Cats kill because they like to stick their claws and teeth into small creatures. For fun. They THOROUGHLY enjoy it. Its sickening.
> 
> If a cat wonders onto my property, can't explain why, but its never seen again.
> 
> Just think, it could be yours next...........



Anyone who has been around cats with their eyes open will know most the cats that are exterminating small native animals are not ferals out in the remote bush somewhere, they are cats who are town people's pets and come home every days for a big feed and the comforts inside a house, THEY ARE NOT KILLING OR TORTURING little animals to eat them, they aren't even hungry when they do it and rarely do they eat any part of the animals that they catch , maime and cripple and kill, they ARE DOING THIS BECAUSE THEY ENJOY INFLICTING PAIN no other reason. 

They are vermin.

There are a few local cats on my hit list (so if you really love your cat and live near me, you'd better keep it inside because if I capture it , the cat will never be seen again, and I wont bother asking the council ranger to come and collect it).


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## Sean_L (Mar 12, 2015)

What he said.


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## MesseNoire (Mar 12, 2015)

Sean_L said:


> Your ignorance is disturbing. Cats *ARE* INTENTIONALLY GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO KILL THINGS!!! Have you read any of this thread? Cats kill because they like to stick their claws and teeth into small creatures. For fun. They THOROUGHLY enjoy it. Its sickening.
> 
> If a cat wonders onto my property, can't explain why, but its never seen again.
> 
> Just think, it could be yours next...........



My point is that pet cats don't just live outside. People have to let them live outside. 
I completely understand the way cats are and things would certainly be better if they weren't here. 
But let's be honest. They didn't get here by themselves. So who is to blame? The owners that let their cats stray and destroy other animals? Or the cats that are just doing what comes natural?


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 12, 2015)

MesseNoire said:


> My point is that pet cats don't just live outside. People have to let them live outside.
> I completely understand the way cats are and things would certainly be better if they weren't here.
> But let's be honest. They didn't get here by themselves. So who is to blame? The owners that let their cats stray and destroy other animals? Or the cats that are just doing what comes natural?


Steps are being taken to get rid of foxes , cats are just as bad, only people keep them as pets while no one keeps foxes as pets. IMO the same approach needs to be applied to all cats who are free to roam (pets, ferals, all the same) .

I wonder how you'd respond if a neighbour's cat killed all your pets ?


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 12, 2015)

Native_EWD said:


> Humans do more damage, lets start trapping and killing them



Can you show me some evidence where humans in Australia kill 75 million native animals a night? (Source: Australian Wildlife Conservancy)


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## zack13 (Mar 12, 2015)

Wing_Nut said:


> Can you show me some evidence where humans in Australia kill 75 million native animals a night? (Source: Australian Wildlife Conservancy)



Can you show me some evidence? From what I recall that number was unverifiable. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-13/greg-hunt-feral-cat-native-animals-fact-check/5858282) Also there is no possible way you can think cats do more harm than humans.


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## Wing_Nut (Mar 12, 2015)

zack13 said:


> Can you show me some evidence? From what I recall that number was unverifiable. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-13/greg-hunt-feral-cat-native-animals-fact-check/5858282) Also there is no possible way you can think cats do more harm than humans.



The commissioner did post a reply to the above article. The general consensus is that there are 15-25 million feral cats in Australia and all field researchers agree this is conservative. The 75 million figure is conservative as well. Regardless, feral cats will be the direct cause of extinction of far more species than humans pressures have been directly. Having said that, humans are ultimately responsible, and for that we should hang our head in shame. I quoted the Australian Wildlife Conservancy because they are one of leading field research organisations. 

Anything less than total eradication of cats in Australia will be well short of a good outcome. When less than 20% of owners of cats do the right thing and prevent any chance of injurious activities of there charges, the right to own a cat at all simply has to be removed.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 12, 2015)

Wing_Nut said:


> The commissioner did post a reply to the above article. The general consensus is that there are 15-25 million feral cats in Australia and all field researchers agree this is conservative. The 75 million figure is conservative as well. Regardless, feral cats will be the direct cause of extinction of far more species than humans pressures have been directly. Having said that, humans are ultimately responsible, and for that we should hang our head in shame. I quoted the Australian Wildlife Conservancy because they are one of leading field research organisations.
> 
> Anything less than total eradication of cats in Australia will be well short of a good outcome. When less than 20% of owners of cats do the right thing and prevent any chance of injurious activities of there charges, the right to own a cat at all simply has to be removed.




I'd be very surprized if as many as 20%, even as many as 2%, of cat owners keep their cats indoors at all times, seems to me that the vast majority of cat owners think it's their god given right to own as many cats as they wish and for them to let these vermin roam at will 24/7 doing untold mayhem and murder in neighbouring backyards, gardens, under neighbour's houses and in nearby parks and glassland and bushland. They simply don't give a stuff so long a puss comes when called or is waiting for them at the front or back door when they get home or get up. 

No one in my neighbourhood keep their cats inside, many households have 3 or 4 or more cats (their cats are invariabley not sterilised, and lots not even registered) , they all roam 24/7, and it's proven pointless and a waste of time to ask them not to let their cats roam - believe me I've tried - and always with the same negative result, including being abused verbally for having the hide to even ask, and pointless trapping the cats and having the council ranger come and collect puss as they have to return the animal and guess what happens - it's promptly (often within a few hours back and roaming again (and now you've buckley's chance of recapturing it in the cat trap ever again) , and now you're the local neighbourhood nasty ******* for reporting them and their cat as well - not worth the hassle to involve the authorities once you've captured a cat IMO.

A great many of these cat owners regard the harm cats do as funny and just cats being cats and so what, after they are just wild animals and of no value to anyone.

I agree, and would like to a systematic campaign to render cats an extinct species here in Australia.


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 12, 2015)

Emotive arguments that anthropomorphically describe cats as ?enjoying torture? and ?murdering for killing?s sake? do nothing but cloud the real issues. The same is true of making sweeping generalisations and inaccurately stating what actual control measures have been put in place by levels of government. I personally believe the ?vigilante justice? proposed, which is based these inaccuracies, is neither appropriate nor any sort of effective solution. 

To generalise that all cats are just straight-out?killers? is not true. Like dogs, certain breeds and individual cats vary in the degree to which they retain their instinctive hunting behaviours. For excample, I have never heard of a feral Poodle. or Maltese Terrier and I do not expect to. On the other hand, I have personally observed a cat and a cockatiel that were close physical companions. The cockatiel would even hop on the cat?sback and preen its fur, while the cat would occasionally respond by giving the parrot?s wing covets a couple of licks. Also I have witnessed a similar bond between a rabbit and a cat. They would chase each other around the yard and often curl up together and fall asleep. This is despite the fact, as the article pointed out, rabbits are the preferred prey of feral cats. At the very least , the "all" need sto removed but I suspect such examples are widespread. 

The issues of free-ranging domestic cats or strays versus truly feral cats have little in common and should not be treated singularly. The loss of wildlife in urbanised areas due to cats is not in the same ball-park when compared to the number of whole species being threatened with extinction across the huge range of their natural habitats. The differing circumstances of these two separate problems and the related potential for control in each have little in common other than hcats hunting. Control measures exercised in urbanised areas will have essentially no effect on the greater problem of feralc ats in natural landscapes, especially in the vast semi-arid to arid areas, where this problem is wreaking truly serious havoc on our native wildlife.

Like it or not, control of domestic pets resides primarily at the level of local government. Nevertheless there has been a big push to try and standardised practices nationally, in order to achieve effective control that is also fair on pet keepers. The measures that can be implemented include things like... compulsory registration; compulsorysterilisation of domestically kept individuals; sterilisation of all animals before they can be sold; official licensing and registration of any and all breeders, who must meet clear guidelines and requirements); micro-chipping; free use of traps, and impounding of animals caught, for animals on rate-payers? properties; collecting and impounding of strays from public property; fees for redemption of impounded animals; Fines for non-compliance; euthanasia of uncollected and/or unwanted animals in pounds and shelters. 

Blue 

PS:
There have been several posts wile i constructed this rather lengthy reply. So these are not addressed. As it is I have not addressed all the contentious remartks, just the most salient. I will make two quick comment- it is not the number of animals that get killed by cats that is important. What is important is whether or not that level of predation is sustainable or results in a decline population over the long term. the second point is that it is academic as to who are the greatest killers of Australian wildlife - humans or cats. It is a nonsense argument which cannot be resolved - permanent destruction of populations through destuction or severe physical alteration of habitats (such as broad-acre farming, clearfelling forests, daming rivers) versus on-going removal of animals within existing habitat. The point was made in order to question the validity of part of the apparent basis for the arguments put forward. It is the validity of that rationale that is worth discussing, not the validity of the analogy used to try and put it into perspective.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 12, 2015)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Emotive arguments that anthropomorphically describe cats as ?enjoying torture? and ?murdering for killing?s sake? do nothing but cloud the real issues. The same is true of making sweeping generalisations and inaccurately stating what actual control measures have been put in place by levels of government. I personally believe the ?vigilante justice? proposed, which is based these inaccuracies, is neither appropriate nor any sort of effective solution.
> 
> To generalise that all cats are just straight-out?killers? is not true. Like dogs, certain breeds and individual cats vary in the degree to which they retain their instinctive hunting behaviours. For excample, I have never heard of a feral Poodle. or Maltese Terrier and I do not expect to. On the other hand, I have personally observed a cat and a cockatiel that were close physical companions. The cockatiel would even hop on the cat?sback and preen its fur, while the cat would occasionally respond by giving the parrot?s wing covets a couple of licks. Also I have witnessed a similar bond between a rabbit and a cat. They would chase each other around the yard and often curl up together and fall asleep. This is despite the fact, as the article pointed out, rabbits are the preferred prey of feral cats. At the very least , the "all" need sto removed but I suspect such examples are widespread.
> 
> ...



Not anthropomorphising at all, that's exactly what they do and why they do it - it's fun for them , they're not the least bit hungry and not doing it because they are hungry.
Time to stop pandering to the pro-cat lobby and start getting deadly serious about the problem.


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## Sean_L (Mar 12, 2015)

I agree unfortunately. A much as Id like to agree with Blue as he puts forward well thought out points, enough is enough. 

Heart warming stories of cats and their precious animal buddies is the same as '_Emotive arguments that anthropomorphically describe cats'. _ It clouds the issue that is this............regardless of a cats level of relative harm, ALL cats need to be treated the same way. If its not enclosed on your property in such a way that it cant harm native wildlife, then it needs to go. Plain and simple. Whether that is to a new home, to a pound or (my personal favourite) kitty cat heaven, the fact remains that they don't belong anywhere near our native wildlife. 

Stop fussing over what 'level of action' is morally reasonable or the fact that cuteness somehow removes something from its injustices, and agree that:

NO CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUT FOR A STROLL SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO EXIST ALONG SIDE ANIMALS THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY HARM.


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## Netteddragon (Mar 12, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> These destructive murderous vermin climb over fences so I'd go as far as saying if it's outside it's owner's house or it's ENCLOSED ESCAPE PROOF cat run, it should be fair game to kill it. I don't care who's pet it might be.
> 
> I also think that steps should be taken to drive cats to extinction in Australia by requiring owners have permits to keep them (and not more than 1 per household) and all kittens be sterilised immediately at birth or be put down.
> 
> Very heavy fines need to be applied and enforced for those who allow their cats to breed, to roam outside their home or cat run and cats caught roaming should be compulsorily put down by the council's vet on capture. Local councils are always saying that they need more money, so, here's an way for them to raise those extra dollars they so sorely need to maintain roads, parks, etc other than by bumping up rand rates as much.



you are so bloody one sided it's not funny it's rather cringe worthy to read, I would compare you to a extreme feminist.


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## RoryBreaker (Mar 12, 2015)

Bluetongue1,

Don't ever leave this forum and disappear onto stalkbook like so many others. Your well reasoned and informative posts are warmly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 12, 2015)

Netteddragon said:


> you are so bloody one sided it's not funny it's rather cringe worthy to read, I would compare you to a extreme feminist.


So you've nothing worth saying to add to this discussion then, hence resorted to personal attacks.


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## zack13 (Mar 13, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> So you've nothing worth saying to add to this discussion then, hence resorted to personal attacks.



While I'm not Netteddragon I don't think there is much point. You claim to know what cats are thinking (not sure if you can speak cat or something0 and that pet cats do more harm than feral cats. Which clearly would not be the case. You have showed no evidence of any of the claims you have made. 
Then when someone puts forward the most logical, thoughtful and best post of the thread, which in no way defended cats at all you told them to stop pandering to pro-cat lobby. 
You don't seem like someone who can be reasoned with. So why bother you aren't going to take anything onboard.


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## Bushman (Mar 13, 2015)

There's no need for anyone to get personal when discussing this or any other topic. 
Please attack the argument, not the person.


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Mar 13, 2015)

Lol I like how some of you especially you knobbys fancy yourselves as some sort of hero of justice for Mother Nature... Tell me if Mother Nature became a conscious entity which species do you think it would class as vermin 1st? Cats? No it would be humans growing in number and spreading at an uncontrollable and unsustainable rate using up all natural resources polluting the air land and ocean wiping out species, INTRODUCING ANIMALS TO ECOSYSTEMS THEY DONT BELONG TO.
The list go's on and on.. but don't worry your making up for it all by killing a few pet cats...


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## i_am_snake (Mar 13, 2015)

If i trap and kill a feral cat, wherever he is caught (down the track, suburban bushland or wherever else i can find them) i have directly stopped that cat from killing dozens, hundreds, potentially thousands of small native reptiles and mammals. And stopped it from reproducing. That in itself is worth something. 

A hell of a lot more work needs to be done by us people who give a damn like getting our govts to really take notice. and changing attitudes of the majority. yes humans are to blame, yes we are the worst but if you see yourself as the problem, or unable to make an impact, you can never become apart of the solution. That goes for all our ecological tragedies. Humanity is capable of great things, anything is possible in todays world. But its so hard to realise this when we're shrouded in the negativity and helplessness caused todays modern society.

But if i save the life of even one native animal, it was worth it....


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm not saying feral cats are a problem that shouldn't be looked at but I highly doubt any of the people on this thread making statements about killing all cats on site and using words like murder and torture harping on about their impact has ever even thought about their own impact on the environment through things like the everyday household items and chemicals used in the kitchen toilet garden etc. products they use on there cars ,bikes that pollute the water and air then there's the process used to make these products that create toxic waste... I wonder if they've thought about the impact on the environment when there tucking into a juicy steak with some vegatables and the impacts farming has on the environment like herbicides pesticides manure run off from confined animals deforestation etc By your own reasoning we should start culling humans... point in case most green energy or sustainability face book pages have about 10,000 likes jump on Kim kardasian's page 25m likes.... 

It's good that you've saved a native animal from a death that would be directly caused by humans but what's the point if it then just go's and gets killed ingesting or getting caught up in some chemical waste or plastic...

Again I agree we need to do something about the problems we have caused like feral cats and cane toads etc and have penalties for negligent owners of cats but just killing people's pets isn't the answer....


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 13, 2015)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> Lol I like how some of you especially you knobbys fancy yourselves as some sort of hero of justice for Mother Nature... Tell me if Mother Nature became a conscious entity which species do you think it would class as vermin 1st? Cats? No it would be humans growing in number and spreading at an uncontrollable and unsustainable rate using up all natural resources polluting the air land and ocean wiping out species, INTRODUCING ANIMALS TO ECOSYSTEMS THEY DONT BELONG TO.
> The list go's on and on.. but don't worry your making up for it all by killing a few pet cats...


I have rescued (sometimes the animal had a cat in hot pursuit or I caught a cat in the act and I intervened by attacking the cat to drive it off so I could rescue the animal) and I've nursed the rescues back to health -mostly reptiles (skinks mostly, some birds too) who have been mauled and seriously injured by neighbourhood cats , including giving them intensive care (daily doses of vet provided antibiotics both via intramuscular injections and oral doses). Some have recovered completely under my care (supervised by a vet) some have ultimately succumbed to SI caused directly by penetrating injuries inflected by these mongrel cats. Unfortunately some were too horribly mauled or had injuries the vet thought were beyond help and these were humainely and painlessly euphenised to put them out of their agony. 

My reputation locally has spread and I regularly have local children and their parents bring native critters who have (nearly always) been a victim of a cat brought to me in the hope I can help them and I never turn a native animal in need away. (No I am not a member of WIRES.)

So in a way I am a local "hero of justice" for local native critters and have been proactive in helping them and trying to protect them. Can you say the same for yourself, would you even bother ?

Just because they are not pets or captive bred and thereby have no $ value doesn't mean they are any less entitled to being helped.

I've seen first hand the suffering inflicted by cats for the fun of it and have learnt to detest the darned animals , IMO the only good cat is a dead cat.


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Mar 13, 2015)

Well good on you making up for all the deaths you indirectly cause by the household products you use and food you eat. Ignorance must be bliss


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 13, 2015)

Prof_Moreliarty said:


> Well good on you making up for all the deaths you indirectly cause by the household products you use and food you eat. Ignorance must be bliss


Well Prof, at least I'm being proactive and trying to help native animals. Can you say as much for yourself ?


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## Grogshla (Mar 13, 2015)

no doubt feral cats are a problem but what can ya do. The government don't care they are too busy with other stuff. I would love them to do a wild cat cull 2 times a year but that won't happen


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## i_am_snake (Mar 13, 2015)

its easy for people to get worked up about the things they care most about and go over the top. not to say they don't hold similar views about other continuing human made ecological nightmares. but change has to start somewhere, and if people can live more consciously about reducing waste, alternative transport, going green, eating organic and the rest we can also do our bit by knocking off feral animals whatever the species. and should be seen as a good thing.

i'd be lying if i said i didn't having anarchist views of erradicating the entire human species, or at least some of them, but on what criteria do we let them live? haha

the i'd think the odd's of a small native rep being swallowed by a wild moggie is much much higher than it ending up in toxic waste or trapped in plastic. but if we arent willing to do more for our environment the same end result is inevitable on the grand scale. but we have to start somewhere. and for some folk its cats.

its sad that sometimes a pet gets killed, but if they truly cared for its wellbeing they'd keep it contained to their house/yard.


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Mar 13, 2015)

I have helped rescue and looked after animals in the past when I've had to and I would do it for ANY injured animal... I've seen scumbags trying to run over a coastal carpet trying to cross the road and me and my mum have put ourselves between them and the snake what do you suppose was in there heads at the time?? The only good snake is a dead one......

picture the setting it's 1920 Tasmania 2 farmers are standing around having a chat one says to the other " got another one of those bloody mongrel murderous thylacines last night trying to kill me sheep the only good one is a dead one " and then some years later no more tassie tigers No different to your chain of thought just cats are not native....

and once again I'll agree feral cats need to be culled it's just people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones if you truly cared about native animals you would think further than killing some cats...


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 13, 2015)

I chopped my original reply into two as it would have been too long. Here is the last part of that...

If you really want to be constructive, then find out what your local council already does and if you consider improvements are needed, then do something about it. For example, you could lobby local councillors and MPs for appropriate changes, write letters to local papers that publish input from their readers, or even put up notices on community bulletin boards, vet clinics, local libraries etc, to generate public awareness of the problem, and to encourage others to bring pressure to bear on local governments to implement appropriate changes. You could even locate councils that do have effective control measures in place and use these as exemplars that your own council could follow. These sorts of actions have a much better chance of achieving effective change, and change that will last, as compared to killing cats straying onto someone property (which are just as likely to be soon replaced.)

While I am not what you would call a ?cat lover?, I do not hate cats. What I do hate is the damage they do to native wildlife. It is not cats that created the problem, but irresponsible humans. I totally agree that the ultimate solution would be to eliminate all feral cats and strays and for all cat owners to responsibly manage their pets. 

Government and private agencies have been working hard on the issue of control of feral cats for decades now. In many ways the situation is similar to the cane toad problem. We know that to solve these problems we need to get rid of the animals, or to at least reduce and then control their numbers. Yet to date, some of the brightest brains in the country have failed to come up with the required ?how?. An effective solution will be one that works on a large scale and not just locally; one that will work in all manner of habitats, not just one or three; and one that will stand the test of time and not see the animals develop a resistance or resilience to control. This is a truly daunting task but plenty of dedicated people are still chiselling away at it in the hope that they may yet discover the magical ?silver bullet?, or at least something close to it. 

Blue


A few thoughts for today...



Sean_L said:


> Heartwarming stories of cats and their precious animalbuddies is the same as '_Emotive argumentsthat anthropomorphically describe cats'. ....._


It is interesting that you found the story ?heart warming?. It was, after all, only a factual recount of my observations i.e. no emotions were expressed or implied. Given this, how you can equate the above is beyond me. 



Sean_L said:


> ....NO CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUTFOR A STROLL SHOULD BEALLOWED TO EXIST ALONG SIDE ANIMALS THAT IT COULDPOTENTIALLY HARM.


If one applied this logic to other animal species, then surely contact between any potentially dangerous reptile and humans could not be allowed. No contact with dogs would definitely ?be a no brainer?. What about animals like horses, which kill, on average, around 20 Australian people every year, along with numerous other animals (by kicking or trampling them). Not to mention the millions of bees kept in hives and so important in pollinating human food crops? Need I go on?


_


kingofnobbys said:



Notanthropomorphising at all, that's exactly what they do and why they do it -it's fun for them ,they're not the least bit hungry and not doing it becausethey are hungry.....

Click to expand...

_I have some other simple observations that explaint his quite well while provide clear examples that contradict your generalization. Would you like to know about them? 

I have only just seen your latest posts (as I was about to paste this one). It is pleasing to note that you are doing something positive. I personally believe that assisting others to assist wildlife supports and strengthens their interest and concern - valuable attitudes to encourage in my book. 

Dave (Rorybreaker), it is reassuring that you think of the old man that way. You might be pleased to know that I hate using Facebook.

One last genral comment before I bow out of this thread - I am too busy with other things. I must say that several of the arguments put forward have a very familiar ring about them. The onlything that is different is that when I last came across them, they were being used to support the contention that: ?The only good snake is a dead snake?. 

Blue


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Mar 13, 2015)

i_am_snake said:


> its easy for people to get worked up about the things they care most about and go over the top. not to say they don't hold similar views about other continuing human made ecological nightmares. but change has to start somewhere, and if people can live more consciously about reducing waste, alternative transport, going green, eating organic and the rest we can also do our bit by knocking off feral animals whatever the species. and should be seen as a good thing.
> 
> i'd be lying if i said i didn't having anarchist views of erradicating the entire human species, or at least some of them, but on what criteria do we let them live? haha
> 
> ...



ill agree with most of that and I reckon there are a lot of people who DO try and limit their pets impact on the environment but let's say one night there locking up there house and one of their cats slips out the door wether they realise it or not should they be punished by having one of their pets killed is it the cats fault? The owners? Start off with culling ferals then look at what can be done with pet cats a couple of things I can think of breeders can't sell animals that can reproduce unless to another breeder have them all licensed have hefty fines for selling unspade animals and even higher fines for cowboys with no license to breed, have cats be sold chipped as standard.
A lot of people are also getting into gps tracking for their pets could make that standard too...


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## Bart70 (Mar 13, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> What you shouldn't do is - buy a trap, capture the cats that are coming onto your property, torturing , maiming and murdering and never eating the native fauna you might be lucky enough to have on your properly only to follow the rules and hand them over the local council's ranger to take away, he'll simply return the mongrel to the owner if he can identify the owner or they come forward and collect it., and you'll be right back where you started and have bugger all chance of ever trapping it again. Worse the owner can expect is some fines (if not chipped, not collared, not registered and that's all  .... )
> 
> IMO probably best to sort the cats out permanently and STEALTHFULLY yourself. (And I don't mean take it for a long drive and dump it --- that only moves the problem somewhere else.)
> 
> It's been my experience that you simply can not reason with deadbeat cat owners who insist on letting their cats roam at will day and night. Pointless even trying.



Unless your Council is like one I had a little while ago....More than happy to take as many cats that I was able to catch and euthanise them. The only proviso was that they MUST have been caught within the confines of my property (residential block in town) - not heavily populated but not out 'in the sticks' either.

They regs on this change from State to State..... but when the NSW Companion Animal Act was passed around 2001'ish it forced Councils to have to deal with lost/abandoned/feral cats as well as dogs. Up until that time they were quite within their rights to turn you away and tell you the animal was your problem. The particular Council I was involved with was more than happy to euthanise any cat that was not easily identifiable (most aren't) almost immediately. It saved them having to house and mess around with them. Some Councils are better than others....


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## GBWhite (Mar 13, 2015)

It's all fine to have opinions and suggest methods to control the moggy explosion and/or petition governments to act but the reality is (just like the proposed movement of some herpers to form a representative body) it will never happen.

I think a lot of people forget that we are part of the whole shibang that's called earth and we seem to play a very major part in how the whole thing rolls. As much as we love our natural environment here I can guarantee the same affection is displayed by inhabitants of all other countries yet the impact we have on all aspects of the planet is soooo bleeding obvious. 

Anyone ever considered that it is just the nature of the human beast to move around all over the place and spread, not just animals but disease and mayhem all over the planet. Nothing seems to escape our footprint on mother earth and we seem to leave pretty deep prints. Maybe, just maybe it's the way it's all meant to be. All life on this planet comes and goes and whether it be by man's hands, devastation or climate change mother earth will survive, she in herself is a living breathing entity, it's just that as smart as we are supposed to be, humans haven't seemed to wake up to that fact yet.

We forget that as passionate as we are about our native wildlife, others are just as passionate about their pets as they are about their car, their house, their new TV and everything else they have and want to posess, so ask them (and yourself) if you or they are willing to give all these things up and go back to being hunter gatherers again to save a few reptiles, native animals or for that matter the whole natural environment. I think I could predict the answer. 

Now I'm not suggesting that it is a bad thing or not commendable to want to help preserve the environment (hell I'm just as passionate about that as the next bloke but I'm also a realist) and the way I see it is that unless you've got nearly everyone on the planet expressing the same views, it's pushing the proverbial item up a hill.

Philosophical rave over. 

Cheers,

George.


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## Sean_L (Mar 13, 2015)

I feel your point is invalid [MENTION=20726]Bluetongue1[/MENTION] . Whether I personally find it heart warming or not, silly cats owners will never see through the cuddliness of their pets.
They can't be reasoned with because unless they see their own pet kill, they don't believe it is capable. Some people are so thick they actually think the animals that their cat brings in are completely unharmed and that their cat was gently playing with them. 
Don't anyone tell me other wise, I've seen it time and time again, held countless native reptiles and bird in my hands and watched as the blood bubbled from their mouths, with the dumb, brainless faces of the owners ohhhing and ahhhing about how their cat is lovely and how it couldn't possibly have hurt the perforated animal before them.
I have no respect for anyone that owns a cat. Period. I have nothing but contempt for those that allow their pet to blatantly murder any small living thing around them. 
Id gladly feed them a tasty, high velocity lead snack for their troubles. Too many worthless people in this world and I'm quickly running out of patience for any of them.

As for your second point. I shall amend my statement to this:
_NO *INTRODUCED* CAT, WHETHER FERAL, DOMESTIC OR EVEN SIMPLY OUT FOR A STROLL SHOULD BE ALLOWED *ACCESS* TO *NATIVE* ANIMALS THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY HARM._

As for why you tried to apply this logic to anything else is beyond me. Juiced fruit is delicious as a cold beverage. Juiced cow is not as palatable. Point being, I am not making a global statement about anything. Im simply telling you 'how it is' with regards to cats and wildlife. 
As for your comparisons involving people and reptiles and horses, etc, I have no idea why your brining that up either. Its not relevant and to be honest I couldn't care less about how many people are killed by horses. I dont much care for most horse people as it is. Haha. I like dog people though, don't get me wrong folks, I'm not all hate. 
My statement refers to cats. As this discussion _refers to cats_. Any other conclusions you're drawing regarding this logic are your own and not relevant to this discussion as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong though, I too appreciate your input in any discussion you care to include yourself in. I just don't think that second point and its train of thought was worth mentioning in this case.



You make a valid philosophical point there [MENTION=39076]GBWhite[/MENTION] . People don't listen, they don't learn and you cant change their minds.
So just kill their cats, don't bother explaining it to them because they wont comprehend, and know in your own mind that you are at least doing something useful in your own area to keep a few more native animals around during your own lifetime. For the benefit of yourself, because not many other care.
Ultimately, the future will be controlled by the next bunch of brain dead voters and corrupt governments and until one country rises up and eliminates the rest of the planet there will be no right or wrong, moral or immoral, best or worst............only opinion from one idiot or another. I'm not condoning this, simply expressing how I see it.
Haha, I think Im done with this one. Sorry Nobby, just keep doing what you're doing and know that someone else out there actually has a brain and some guts also. 

Death to roaming cats........etc, etc, etc.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 13, 2015)

Sean_L said:


> I feel your point is invalid @Bluetongue1 . Whether I personally find it heart warming or not, silly cats owners will never see through the cuddliness of their pets.
> They can't be reasoned with because unless they see their own pet kill, they don't believe it is capable. Some people are so thick they actually think the animals that their cat brings in are completely unharmed and that their cat was gently playing with them.
> Don't anyone tell me other wise, I've seen it time and time again, held countless native reptiles and bird in my hands and watched as the blood bubbled from their mouths, with the dumb, brainless faces of the owners ohhhing and ahhhing about how their cat is lovely and how it couldn't possibly have hurt the perforated animal before them.
> I have no respect for anyone that owns a cat. Period. I have nothing but contempt for those that allow their pet to blatantly murder any small living thing around them.
> ...




.... well said.

Nail hit on the head.

I only wish all people who said they loved herps and other native animals were like us.... unfortunately it seems we are in a small minority based on the comments here.


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## Skipperandrew (Mar 14, 2015)

I think it could be too late for a lot of native animals already. The cats and foxes are everywhere. I live in the Pilbara and sadly see more feral cats out in the bush at night than native animals these days . Walking around termite mounds you only find spiny tail monitor tails left. I have personally changed from loving cats to hating/ despising them after seeing what they do to reptiles in the wild and will quiet happily catch and kill any cat that enters my property to kill the native lizards, birds I try to attract to my garden by creating a favourable enviroment for them. 

Other goverments around the world have been trying to eradicate them for many many years on Islands without any wins. The Marion Islands being one of them in the southern ocean , under S-african government. They have been shooting them for 30 odd years and still cant get rid of them. They are responsable for a number of sea bird extinctions already . The rangers doing turtle monitoring in the Ppilbara told me they shoot 300 to 500 feral cats a year doing the beach patrols at ngt. Thats only 1 person ?

- - - Updated - - -

It will take a hell of a lot more than some local shire laws telling people to keep their cats indoors at ngt to make any kind of difference to the sad situation native animals are facing .


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 14, 2015)

Skipperandrew said:


> I think it could be too late for a lot of native animals already. The cats and foxes are everywhere. I live in the Pilbara and sadly see more feral cats out in the bush at night than native animals these days . Walking around termite mounds you only find spiny tail monitor tails left. I have personally changed from loving cats to hating/ despising them after seeing what they do to reptiles in the wild and will quiet happily catch and kill any cat that enters my property to kill the native lizards, birds I try to attract to my garden by creating a favourable enviroment for them.
> 
> Other goverments around the world have been trying to eradicate them for many many years on Islands without any wins. The Marion Islands being one of them in the southern ocean , under S-african government. They have been shooting them for 30 odd years and still cant get rid of them. They are responsable for a number of sea bird extinctions already . The rangers doing turtle monitoring in the Ppilbara told me they shoot 300 to 500 feral cats a year doing the beach patrols at ngt. Thats only 1 person ?
> 
> ...




Such shire / local council laws are useless unless strictly enforced and people's cats when found on the roam are confiscated and automatically destroyed (day or night) and large fines applied to the owners, a lot of the damage is done in broad daylight not only at night. I've often spotted cats in stalk mode in my garden / yard , unfortunately I can't be on guard duty 24/7 to protect the natives I've attracted / encouraged to visit my yard (I too have gone to the effort of creating a favourable environment and until recently safe sanctuary for them and have even managed to build trust with many of the natives so much so that I have been able to hand feed occasional treats to some.)


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## Sean_L (Mar 14, 2015)

[MENTION=40582]Skipperandrew[/MENTION] That's the single most disappointing account I think I've heard. Ill be honest. I knew it was a top priority, but I had no idea it was THAT bad. The Pilbara is one of the most stunning reptile habitats in Australia, if not the world. 

Unlike cane toads that were purposely introduced to kill the cane beetle and foxes purposely introduced for sports shooting, feral cats have come about purely through our ignorance and laziness. We kept them around to control the levels of mice and rats (that were also introduced by us) around our dwellings and they took it upon themselves to stray and then systematically devour the countryside. The tabby purring on the backrest behind you dumb asses is the embodiment of these pests. The source of the problem.

A male feral cat's range can conservatively be in the order of over 200 hectares. To put that in perspective, Lamington National Park, Australia's LARGEST remaining portion of sub-tropical rainforest is about 20,200 hectares. So theoretically, a mere 100 males could comfortably patrol the entire area, devouring anything they come across. This is regardless of the female interlopers, and ignoring the fact that ranges may overlap and their population density is usually far greater than this. As has been said, there are millions of feral cats in Australia. 

If you own a cat and let it roam free you should be ashamed! I'm completely, utterly disgusted that any of you people have the nerve to defend, even for a second, what these pests are doing. 
I love the Pilbara and its wildlife and would trade it for any irresponsible cat owners life. In a heartbeat.

If I see your cat, its better than dead. And you don't deserve any better.

Yeah, I'm p*ssed.

Done. For good.
I will not waste another breath on the dirtbags destroying this country's immeasurable natural wealth. You don't deserve the ground you walk on.


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