# Fat Should Pay More for Airline Tickets



## slim6y (Nov 12, 2007)

With the arrival of Stary_Boy for the Cairns November celebrations I was horrified to find out she was charged $110 for excess luggage.

She was over by a couple of kg for sure, but did they take into consideration the fact she was a lot smaller than a lot of the other passengers?

What say she had recently lost weight? 

Lets say for example she had lost 5kg - that's probably $50 excess luggage costs... But they don't take that into account.

Then last night on the news they brought up this very scenario... If people ar ebeing charged for extra baggage why aren't they charging for seriously overweight people?

Soon you'll have to be weighed in to buy your airline ticket.

What say one of the 'biggest losers' gets on the airline - and they lose 50 or more kg! 

A biased system really.


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## Radar (Nov 12, 2007)

Which one's biased, fat people paying more or skinny people paying excess baggage? 
:lol:


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## stary boy (Nov 12, 2007)

does that mean anorexic people get $20 flights?


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## wood_nymph (Nov 12, 2007)

i've often thought the same thing myself, if there's a cut off in baggage weight what's the cut off for people weight?


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## Isis (Nov 12, 2007)

when we were organising the kids school camp to tassie earlier this year we had to pay for 2 seats for 1 of the mums as she is a big big girl. so yes it appears that obese people do pay extra.


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## wood_nymph (Nov 12, 2007)

that must have been really embrassing for her  was it cause of weight or size though? i can understand stand size cause she would pyhiscally need two seats but if it was only based on weight that's just a bit mean.


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## slim6y (Nov 12, 2007)

wood_nymph said:


> that must have been really embrassing for her  was it cause of weight or size though? i can understand stand size cause she would pyhiscally need two seats but if it was only based on weight that's just a bit mean.



HAHAHA! I thought you were talking about stary then for a sec... haha...


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## Isis (Nov 12, 2007)

Well you cant have a butt that size and not be over weight. If you let yourself get that big then you had better learn to deal with.


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## That_Guy (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeh ive been on a fair few flights in my lifetime...
One of the vivid memories is checking in to sydney airport on way home from aunties place on holiday there and had a large dude in front of us trying to check in and the lady at the counter was saying that he would physically have to buy two seats however the flight was completely booked and there was not another seat available where they could put two together and he was goin off his trolley about it because it meant he had to wait for another 10 hours till the next flight!!!!
pretty funny/scary when you like 8 or 9!!


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## Naxx (Nov 12, 2007)

well there is a point to all this, if a plane is filled with a full cabin of all overweight people, and their luggage, would they be too heavy to even get off the ground? no offense to fat people but its a good point that if u pay 5$ a kilo, there should be a set weight that if ur over it ur considered overweight and it should come off ur baggage, like if ur 50K overweight u can only have 1k of baggage lol


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## mertle (Nov 12, 2007)

I think they go on the total weight of average passengers, then it doesn't matter if your fat or thin sort of thing and then the total of baggage has it's own weight too, 

If it tells you your only allowed to have 20 kilos in baggage then use your common sense and just have that much.

I'm not skinny and find it offensive when people say you let yourself get that way then you should pay more, having dealt with it most of my life it's not a matter of letting yourself etc. There are medical reasons for many people too.

Overweight people already have a hard enough time with clothing being dearer etc and things like that, yeah why not slug them for all their weight is worth?? 

I find it sad people should think this way.


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## mrsshep77 (Nov 12, 2007)

As a travel agent I am commenting... but yes if a person is of a larger proportion then they DO have to purchase 2 seats at an extra cost.... so there is NO BIASED at all here!! 
The weight of luggage is a standard size and weight so as to FIT in the luggage hold and also they have to take into consideration the weight of the plane, the weight of the fuel etc etc!!

Ok so if you're going to say that FAT people who weigh over a certain weight should pay extra well what about a pregnant woman who may normally not weigh a great deal but when pregnant she puts on weight... do you think she should pay extra??? Domestically they can fly up to 1 month prior to the birth as long as theres no complications!!

I can't believe you guys are actually even commenting on this.... as it was said earlier sometimes it's not about WEIGHT but more about size.... some people may not weigh in excess but are just out of proportion and therefore making this argument a pretty null and void argument as there is no sure fire "system" that would be able to have criteria that would suit everyone!!
That is why it's only luggage that is controlled as how could you possibly monitor and control how much each person weighs and still get the plane to leave on time???

I agree with Mertle, it's a battle that unless you have walked in someone elses shoes you have NO IDEA what the whole process is about and how hard it can be for some people!!

It's also discrimination!


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## bump73 (Nov 12, 2007)

Mertle fair enough some have medical reasons....

But IMO the majority are just lazy individuals setting a bad example for the next generation who are getting fatter and lazier by the day..


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## cris (Nov 12, 2007)

I can see what you are getting at, IMO it would be fairer for a ticket to cover a certain weight(passenger and luggage combined) but you cant really expect ppl to stand on scale because some ppl are embarresed by their weight for some stupid reason(we can all see how fat you are anyway). Weight also isnt always related to being fat at around 90kg im not really fat(just a little insulation lol) but pay the same price for a ticket as a 30kg kid, so im not going to complain. It isnt likely to change as the fat population is growing rapidly and they hold alot of weight.


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

I'm not for discrimination against overweight people, however I actually believe that this may be a step in the right direction. There have been many radical steps taken in the past to try and achieve equality, and a better way of life, very few of them were accepted at the time, it's amazing how many of them we take for granted nowadays.

The anti-smoking revolution, for example. Once upon a time this was an accepted practice, nobody would have questioned or criticised a smoker. However today it is perfectly acceptable to say to a smoker "what are you doing, don't you know how unhealthy that is for you ?"

My question is how long will it be before obesity is questioned in a similar manner. "What are you doing, don't you know how unhealthy it is to be so overweight ?"

The fact is, obesity is dangerous, and _not natural. _Sure, plenty of people say "some people can't help it, it's medical, or it's genetic.." the fact is, no matter what it is - it's dangerous. Look at statistics for obesity-related deaths. Obesity-related deaths in the western world are fast catching up to deaths due to starvation in third world countries.

Yes, be yourself, be happy with who you are, but be healthy at the same time. No one's telling you to be size 0 (I find that far more disgusting than obesity in any case), just to get to a healthy weight. Yes, it's harder for some people than others, but if you really value your life, then I would think that you would go to any lengths to maintain it.

This is why I say it's a step in the right direction, another incentive for people to aspire to be healthy.

I've got nothing against overweight people, however people lacking self-respect.. well if you don't respect yourself don't expect me to do the same.

/rant


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## Naxx (Nov 12, 2007)

descrimination is the unfair treatment of a person with no particular reason.

this is NOT descrimination IMO, if it didnt cost more to fly the plane etc with more weight then it would be but thats not true. I understand yes there are alot of health reasons like thyroids etc that cause weight gain, but its also a circle, with previous generations of overweight people, statistics show they are more likely to have overweight kids etc etc.


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## lazybuddha (Nov 12, 2007)

Timotei said:


> My question is how long will it be before obesity is questioned in a similar manner. "What are you doing, don't you know how unhealthy it is to be so overweight ?"


that isnt going to work, believe me. im 130kg at the moment, and put it this way, my PE teacher at school tried that so my last week at school i ate one of those double pounder (the ones with 8 pieces of meat) in front of her. 
the point is, i was planning to get healthy in my own time and every time someone did something like that, its like well stuff you im going to eat a pie sandwhich.


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

lazybuddha said:


> that isnt going to work, believe me. im 130kg at the moment, and put it this way, my PE teacher at school tried that so my last week at school i ate one of those double pounder (the ones with 8 pieces of meat) in front of her.
> the point is, i was planning to get healthy in my own time and every time someone did something like that, its like well stuff you im going to eat a pie sandwhich.



Not exactly the most fruitful response to have, tho, is it ? You'd rather be unhealthy simply to spite the people that criticise you for it ?


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## falconboy (Nov 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> Mertle fair enough some have medical reasons....
> 
> But IMO the majority are just lazy individuals setting a bad example for the next generation who are getting fatter and lazier by the day..



Hey! I resemble that remark. :lol:


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## mertle (Nov 12, 2007)

It's a vicious circle when it comes to overweight people, 

If you haven't been there then you really don't understand, it's also a mental thing which cannot be overcome as easily as saying "just lose the weight" 

walk a mile in someone else's shoes before making judgments.


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## lazybuddha (Nov 12, 2007)

well, i suppose yes. i'm know im going to get healthy in my own time


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## kelly (Nov 12, 2007)

Timotei said:


> My question is how long will it be before obesity is questioned in a similar manner. "What are you doing, don't you know how unhealthy it is to be so overweight ?"



I want to know why it's alright for people to have a go at me for being underweight, when as soon as an overweight person gets called fat, it's "discrimination" hahaha!


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

mertle said:


> It's a vicious circle when it comes to overweight people,
> 
> If you haven't been there then you really don't understand, it's also a mental thing which cannot be overcome as easily as saying "just lose the weight"
> 
> walk a mile in someone else's shoes before making judgments.



People do extraordinary things when they want to, and I believe it should be every person's ambition (fat or thin) to be as healthy as they can be.

The fact is nobody can walk a mile in anybody else's shoes. But to take a somewhat overused example, take the contestants of the Biggest Loser. Many of those people had been overweight their entire lives, many of them had severe psychological issues as a result, yet rather than the difficulty of losing the weight being the cause of their dismay, it became their strength to push on.

I don't believe in limiting oneself to such a degree "it's just too hard". I may not be overweight, but I've overcome my biggest problems through determination, and you can't tell me that it was easy, just as I can't tell you that weight loss is easy.

But it's possible, so why not strive for it ?


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## bump73 (Nov 12, 2007)

lazybuddha said:


> that isnt going to work, believe me. im 130kg at the moment, and put it this way, my PE teacher at school tried that so my last week at school i ate one of those double pounder (the ones with 8 pieces of meat) in front of her.
> the point is, i was planning to get healthy in my own time and every time someone did something like that, its like well stuff you im going to eat a pie sandwhich.


 

Thanx for proving my point Lazybuddah 

but seriously dude enough excuses time to lose it before it's too late

Ben


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

kelly said:


> I want to know why it's alright for people to have a go at me for being underweight, when as soon as an overweight person gets called fat, it's "discrimination" hahaha!



Social conditioning, apparently underweight people can help it, but overweight people can't. Society's silly like that... "Underweight people can just eat more" "And overweight people can't just eat less ?" "...No that's different."

Lol.


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## lazybuddha (Nov 12, 2007)

i did lose weight about a year ago, i lost 30 kgs over a couple of months. so i know it can be done, my point was once you slip off that horse its hard to get back on, so i waited until i was sure that i could stop it being a repitive cycle of weightloss and weight gain. it was the tony ferguson diet so if anyone has tried it you know how strict you have to be on it


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## Kyro (Nov 12, 2007)

Exactly what I was thinking Kelly, I am a 52kg mum of 6 & constantly cop people asking if I even eat because of my small size, & the worst thing is they don't even realize how rude that is.


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## Radar (Nov 12, 2007)

Timotei said:


> People do extraordinary things when they want to, and I believe it should be every person's ambition (fat or thin) to be as healthy as they can be.


 
Very good point. My father used to be 114kg of muscle (many years ago), now he's 75kg, much leaner, but probably roughly as healthy as he ever was. Im the opposite, I have a hard time putting on weight, even though I eat like a horse and my dayly social outings are to the gym or Tai training. Making people pay, both literally and mentally, when you have no idea of their past, present or future, you really are proving that you havent thought about the issue too deeply.


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## bump73 (Nov 12, 2007)

mertle said:


> It's a vicious circle when it comes to overweight people,
> 
> If you haven't been there then you really don't understand, it's also a mental thing which cannot be overcome as easily as saying "just lose the weight"
> 
> walk a mile in someone else's shoes before making judgments.


 
Meaybe if they walked a mile every now in their own shoes it would'nt be such an issue:lol::lol:


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## cris (Nov 12, 2007)

Fat ppl are just like drug abusers, despicable ppl with bad habits that cost the rest of society, now please excuse me while i pour myself a bourbon :lol:

Peronsally i think murderers, terrorists and other criminals are the real victims of discrimination, just because they behave differantly they are put in jail or killed. Its not like they can help it.


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## slim6y (Nov 12, 2007)

Reading through various comments from both sides of the argument... 

Here's one that helps with greenhouse emissions. 

If the average weight of people increased by x% then the actual amount of fuel consumption can go up as much as 4 times x! (based on kinetic energy mass times the square of velocity).

So using up to four times the amount of fuel per x above average is a real green house emitter - when you look at what the average weight of humans are.

Kelly - being underweight can be equally as dangerous (so I am told). 

There's always an easy answer - and using greenhouse gases can not be the answer to obesity. Doesn't the biggest loser inspire any of you? Or at least knowing you have a wonderful future?


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## kelly (Nov 12, 2007)

Hmm it all depends I guess. If you're talking about someone who has anorexia, doesn't eat the proper foods etc then I guess it would be very dangerous. 
In my case, I just find it hard to gain weight, being vegan has something to do with it but I do also have a fast metabolism. I'm a good weight now though (after a lot of effort and disgusting weight gain shakes) but still get crap about being thin?
Like today, I said I was freezing in my office. My boss (who is overweight) replied with "Maybe if you put some weight on you wouldn't be so cold". Of course I said back "Actually, perhaps if you lost some weight, we wouldn't have to have the air con up so high to keep you cool" :lol::lol::lol: He was not impressed, but saw where I was coming from.


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

kelly said:


> Hmm it all depends I guess. If you're talking about someone who has anorexia, doesn't eat the proper foods etc then I guess it would be very dangerous.
> In my case, I just find it hard to gain weight, being vegan has something to do with it but I do also have a fast metabolism. I'm a good weight now though (after a lot of effort and disgusting weight gain shakes) but still get crap about being thin?
> Like today, I said I was freezing in my office. My boss (who is overweight) replied with "Maybe if you put some weight on you wouldn't be so cold". Of course I said back "Actually, perhaps if you lost some weight, we wouldn't have to have the air con up so high to keep you cool" :lol::lol::lol: He was not impressed, but saw where I was coming from.



Haha, touché..


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## mertle (Nov 12, 2007)

I believe saying anything like that to fat or thin people is horrible, 

It's just as bad for thin people as fat ones, I agree with kelly on this one, like she said, she has a fast metabolism, others have a very slow one, 

Ohh and you may find that not all the biggest losers on the tv are happy now, it traumatized many of them and making a fat person eat a mound of cakes so they can stay on a show to lose weight is healthy for them??

It's not nice to say to someone skinny , ohh just put on weight, go eat some cream cakes or something, 

it's not nice to say anything nasty to any person to make yourself feel better, and that's what it boils down to a lot of the time,


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

mertle said:


> I believe saying anything like that to fat or thin people is horrible,
> 
> It's just as bad for thin people as fat ones, I agree with kelly on this one, like she said, she has a fast metabolism, others have a very slow one,
> 
> ...



I agree Mertle, it's never nice to be unkind to to people.

Thing is, what we want to hear isn't always what's good for us, sometimes it takes an objective eye to point us in the right direction.

The problem is drawing that line.


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## JoandDrew (Nov 12, 2007)

stary boy said:


> does that mean anorexic people get $20 flights?


Hahaha Hubby said the same thing when he saw it on the News:lol:


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## wood_nymph (Nov 12, 2007)

kelly said:


> I want to know why it's alright for people to have a go at me for being underweight, when as soon as an overweight person gets called fat, it's "discrimination" hahaha!


 
same here i've never been the kind of person who sits down to a massive meal, yes i do eat and yes i do eat regularly and thanks to a fats metabolism i've always been in a position where i could stand to gain a few but have always been within the healthy weight range. i went my entire childhood being told by all the adults around me that i was too skinny to the point were it became just as upsetting as being called fat.


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## Fuscus (Nov 12, 2007)

I've walked this particular mile, its not easy but well worth it. All it takes is motivation, organization, intelligence and persistence. Mind you the hard part was dropping alcohol to near zero. But just looking at my relatives and listing to the whining and the medical problems reinforces my belief it was the right decision.


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## KWKW (Nov 12, 2007)

I agree 100% with the fat tax cos if youve ever sat next to a large person on a long flight its very unconfitable. 

but in saying that they should have larger seats for them if they pay the extra $!


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

Fuscus said:


> I've walked this particular mile, its not easy but well worth it. All it takes is motivation, organization, intelligence and persistence. Mind you the hard part was dropping alcohol to near zero. But just looking at my relatives and listing to the whining and the medical problems reinforces my belief it was the right decision.



Gd on ya Fuscus


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## mertle (Nov 12, 2007)

Well done Fuscus! 

It takes some real effort to do that!

Perhaps if more people had positive things to say about larger people they wouldn't be so depressed about themselves and would be more likely to become healthier.


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## scam7278 (Nov 12, 2007)

note to the MODS this thread offends me!! do somthing about it please!!!!!!!!


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## Sdaji (Nov 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> Meaybe if they walked a mile every now in their own shoes it would'nt be such an issue:lol::lol:



:lol:

If there was a Hell I'd probably have a one-way ticket there for laughing, but I couldn't help it! :lol:

I put on weight once. During my honours year I studied long hours every day, sometimes going for a month or so without a day off. I'd get up, go to uni, sit in the lab or in front of a computer all day, go home and go to sleep, then get up and go straight to uni... Almost every meal was take-away (mostly Chinese or pizza), and surprise surprise, by the end of the year, I had a weight problem. I could have said "Oh, poor me!" and made myself feel better by Skaarfing myself with pizza and hamburgers, but instead I excercised and ate well. Within a month I'd lost almost all of what I'd put on and within another month I was probably a lot healthier than I'd been before I started my honours year. If I ate chocolate or hamburgers every time I was upset or hungry, I would certainly be a chronically fat person. It's physically possible for almost everyone to be healthy and in a good weight range, but psychological issues prevent many people from eating properly and/or excercising. Psychological issues can also have a direct impact on your metabolism and biochemistry. Most of us have problems we can't deal with because our heads are making it difficult for us, unfortunately for fat people their problems are clearly visible to everyone who sees them, unlike those with gambling addictions, snake addictions, etc etc, which can easily be hidden. To many healthy people, it is very difficult to comprehend why someone who is fat doesn't just eat less and move more (I must admit, I can't comprehend it), but many fat people would look similarly at a smoker or gambler who can't quit, the depressed person who can't just cheer up, etc etc. The average person probably looks at obese people with more distain than smokers or gamblers, but they tend to keep it quiet, or mock and laugh quietly with those nearby who they know will feel the same way.

When it comes to airlines, if it costs more to fly a heavy person (whether they're body builders or obese individuals, healthy or sick, pregnant or not), it's perfectly fair to charge them more, or give lighter people a larger luggage allowance. Because it is politically incorrect to disadvantage a fat person, the airlines are unlikely to do it because of the inevitable criticism and false-but-damaging accusations of discrimination.

Why it is okay to yell at a smoker but not a person who is stuffing chocolate or soft drink into their face is a bit of a mystery to me. Eating a mars bar is going to do you more harm than smoking a cigarette. It's similarly strange that alcohol is so acceptable, stranger that it is socially acceptable, and legal, to have a couple of alcoholic drinks and then drive a car! :shock: I do find it disturbing that society sees it as acceptable to give chocolate, soft drink and lollies to children, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future confectionary carries the same type of warning labels that we currently see on cigarette packets, and it would only be fair if confectionary carried extremely high taxes, just like cigarettes do. I'd be surprised if alcohol doesn't.


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## Naxx (Nov 12, 2007)

taxing smokes is bull, its just the government making money and has no thing watsoever to do with making people quit, if they are so deadly the gov could easily get rid of them but they dont cuz they make heaps off them.

and before people say its not fair and we dont understand, those argueing for the airline thing, i grew up a fat kid, i was repeatedly bullied and beaten as i grew up in a rough town in a rough school, but i worked my ass off to lose the weight and show them all, i understand that this isnt always possible but i understand where people are coming from, i just dont think its right as a society to accept that being unhealthy is ok.


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## cris (Nov 12, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> I do find it disturbing that society sees it as acceptable to give chocolate, soft drink and lollies to children, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future confectionary carries the same type of warning labels that we currently see on cigarette packets



Is sugar toxic now? how is it disturbing to give kids lollies etc.?


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## scorps (Nov 12, 2007)

i was on a plane once and a larger women not fat but not slim moved seats to the side from the middle a air hostest went up to her and said she had to move back to her original seat as her wieght would out balance the plane


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## Naxx (Nov 12, 2007)

ya it does happen, even with skinny people, they get in trouble cuz it shifts all the weight around.


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## spottie (Nov 12, 2007)

hobbo said:


> note to the MODS this thread offends me!! do somthing about it please!!!!!!!!



I remember you saying in another thread that you was skaarked for 20years but that thread never upset you...

Said buy hobbo in a skaarking thread this year..]

now i know why my mum has been saying SKAARF UP BUDDY ive been skaafed up for 20 years and im ok? (i think)


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## cris (Nov 12, 2007)

Naxx said:


> taxing smokes is bull, its just the government making money and has no thing watsoever to do with making people quit, if they are so deadly the gov could easily get rid of them but they dont cuz they make heaps off them.
> 
> I think they should tax legal recreational drugs higher than they currently do, the amount they cost society would probably outweigh the money made(i would imagine). I also think overweight ppl should pay higher taxes/medical insurance to cover their higher than average cost on society. Why should someone making the effort to be healthy have to pay for the treatment of those to lazy to look after their health?
> 
> and before people say its not fair and we dont understand, those argueing for the airline thing, i grew up a fat kid, i was repeatedly bullied and beaten as i grew up in a rough town in a rough school, but i worked my ass off to lose the weight and show them all, i understand that this isnt always possible but i understand where people are coming from, i just dont think its right as a society to accept that being unhealthy is ok.




Good on you, seems like what the other kids did to you helped you get on the right track


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## Australis (Nov 12, 2007)

If you had to pay extra because of body weight, i dont see it as discrimination 
againt people who are obese.

For example, a very tall person of normal build/weight might weigh more 
than a very short person who is obese.


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## Sdaji (Nov 12, 2007)

cris said:


> Is sugar toxic now? how is it disturbing to give kids lollies etc.?



Sugar is a major cause of obesity and a huge range of health problems including type 2 diabetes. Sugar in the quantities that many people in the western world consume it is extremely detrimental to one's health. Giving it to children sets up a pattern which will continue as they grow, it's no surprise that we're seeing more and more obese people in the western world. Disturbingly, many people don't understand how bad sugar is, and this is why it is acceptable to stuff yourself full of it.


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## patonthego (Nov 12, 2007)

*baggage*



mertle said:


> I think they go on the total weight of average passengers, then it doesn't matter if your fat or thin sort of thing and then the total of baggage has it's own weight too,
> 
> If it tells you your only allowed to have 20 kilos in baggage then use your common sense and just have that much.
> 
> ...


I'm with you Mertle, a lot of people can't help being overweight just like me but i my bum isn't huge and can fit easily into 1 seat!! Yeah. But people who are a lot over weight could be asked to pay a bit more as total weight counts on the planes but it's a good question how do they compensate for too much weight on any plane??


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## ytamarin (Nov 12, 2007)

cris said:


> Is sugar toxic now? how is it disturbing to give kids lollies etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In terms of weight gain, sugars are just as bad as fats if you don't burn off the energy they give you. They are necessary, in moderation, but don't need to be consumed via lollies or other 'high concentration' packages - they occur naturally in fruits and veges.


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## Miss B (Nov 12, 2007)

I love when you see packets of lollies (gummy lollies and stuff) that say "99% Fat Free" in big writing plastered all over the packaging. They may be fat free, but they are full of sugar and what happens to sugar when you don't burn it off as energy? Straight to the thighs!


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## Ozzie Python (Nov 12, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> Sugar is a major cause of obesity and a huge range of health problems including type 2 diabetes. Sugar in the quantities that many people in the western world consume it is extremely detrimental to one's health. Giving it to children sets up a pattern which will continue as they grow, it's no surprise that we're seeing more and more obese people in the western world. Disturbingly, many people don't understand how bad sugar is, and this is why it is acceptable to stuff yourself full of it.


 
Couldn't agree more Sdaji,

A few years back i was putting a bit of weight on (i was about 22-23 at the time), and both a personal trainer and doctor blamed my weight gain on rum and coke (and no, my diet didn't consist of high sugar). Yes i was party boy at the time, but switched over to beer (i know it's not much better) but amazingly over a month or two my weight dropped about 5 kilo's. On top of that i used to get extremely sore shoulders after i had bundy or two, and even wound up in hospital with internal bleeding (very scary believe me), and again a mixture of booze loaded with sugar was to blame according to doctors. It doesn't take a genius to work out sugar based products almost became the death of me. I did get a second and third referal before i took a 6 month break from my much loved beverage.

Although i am not trying defend myself that i had been drinking too much at the time, i do blame sugar for all my health issues i had at the time, so yes IMO sugar is the devil!!!!


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## moosenoose (Nov 12, 2007)

Miss B said:


> They may be fat free, but they are full of sugar and what happens to sugar when you don't burn it off as energy? Straight to the thighs!



Too bad it didn't strike higher...people could save thousands of dollars over needless cosmetic surgery


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## cris (Nov 12, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> Sugar is a major cause of obesity and a huge range of health problems including type 2 diabetes. Sugar in the quantities that many people in the western world consume it is extremely detrimental to one's health. Giving it to children sets up a pattern which will continue as they grow, it's no surprise that we're seeing more and more obese people in the western world. Disturbingly, many people don't understand how bad sugar is, and this is why it is acceptable to stuff yourself full of it.



I agree with the basic idea of what you are saying, you just missed out the words "too much". Sugar is a perfectly healthy food for both kids and adults it all comes down to the quantity.

I personally think its absurd to suggest a particular food causes obesity, a bad diet AND lack of exercise causes obesity(and very rarely a genetic condition etc.). The Russian Spetznaz eat heaps of animal fat on crackers as a large part diet at times and i can guarantee they are not obese. Fat contains heaps more energy than sugar as you would know.


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## Timotei (Nov 12, 2007)

cris said:


> I agree with the basic idea of what you are saying, you just missed out the words "too much". Sugar is a perfectly healthy food for both kids and adults it all comes down to the quantity.
> 
> I personally think its absurd to suggest a particular food causes obesity, a bad diet AND lack of exercise causes obesity(and very rarely a genetic condition etc.). The Russian Spetznaz eat heaps of animal fat on crackers as a large part diet at times and i can guarantee they are not obese. Fat contains heaps more energy than sugar as you would know.



Well from a biological perspective - sugar is easier broken down into usable energy, fat must first be broken down into glucose before it is used for respiration.. So I'm not sure where you're getting the "heaps more energy than sugar".. explain ? Maybe something I don't know.. but I have my year 12 Biology exam tomorrow so I'd hope I know !! lol..

Yes, you're right, it's about quantity, but the fact is a single mars bar as someone pointed out earlier contains too much sugar already. There is sugar (and by this I mean sucrose, the added stuff, not natural forms such as fructose and lactose which are present everywhere) in far more things than you realise - they even add sugar to some breads to make them tastier and more addictive. Some chips contain sugar, yoghurts too..

My point is that you shouldn't be going out of your way to give sugar to kids, because guaranteed they're already getting more than they need. As I said earlier, all organic compounds in all the food we eat are eventually used to form glucose, proteins, fats (the body produces these naturally for the storage of energy) and salts (somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this list..). There is no danger of kids getting a lack of sugar by eating a healthy diet. And a lot of parents don't realise exactly how much of a difference diet makes to a child's behaviour. Healthy diet = well behaved kids, it's proven.

But in any case, this doesn't have very much to do with plane tickets... Just pushing the point further that everbody needs to get healthier, it's just that in overweight people it is more obvious than in those with a fast metabolism. Weight isn't the only indicator of health, but it's certainly one of the easiest to notice.


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## Inkslinger (Nov 12, 2007)

I think tickets should be pay by weight or standard wight per person including luggage

as to the sugar argument it does not cause obesity but can promote it

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm


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## Clairebear (Nov 12, 2007)

I can't believe that someone said that kids bullying Naxx set her/him on the right track... (sorry have no idea how to quote)... He/her set him/herself on the right track.

Kids bullying fat kids is _*NOT*_ acceptable. I am covering bullying in my PDE classes and some of these kids... i can only pray the emotional scarring won't hold them back. As someone who has struggled with their weight (and a slow metabolism) for their whole life, i just have to say that it is so not cool to just blatantly say 'screw fat people' as is basically being said. Taking that first, second and even third step is hard, especially when so many things you try don't keep the weight off. What people need is SUPPORT not criticism. When my friend started taking me walking (i have never been obese but i still felt too self conscious to go walking alone because of people who critised me in life) i lost more weight then ever, and felt great. When the kids in the school yard called out rude words (it didn't happen often thank god) it did nothing for me but make me depressed. And for some people that's a little bit harder to overcome then someone saying 'oh get over it and you'll be fine'.

I'm much more comfortable about myself now i'm older (thank god!) and enjoy my walkies (but still need a friend to go with or i get bored) and love my vegies!!! but please... think about what you're saying and how many people you may be setting back when you go to make a fatty comment. It hurts. And it hurts to see the kids affected. Nearly didn't post this... ah who cares everyone else puts in their 10... or 20 cents.


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## PhilK (Nov 12, 2007)

I am not really wanting to get in on this but there is _nothing_ wrong with bullying amongst kids (in my experience of being a teenage boy). Everyone pays eachother out and it makes you a better person. You can take a joke, and get over it. 

Personally I know one ex-fatty who got sick of us calling him names and he's buffer than all of us.


EDIT: is it bullying if everyone does it to eachother...? Probably not. Just realised that. Also just realised you're talking about girls.. It's probably different in guys.

My view on overweight people though is unless there is some proven medical condition they have nobody to blame but themselves. I'm not buff or anything, and have a little beer gut going.. But if I wanted to blame someone, it'd be myself for not going to them gym.


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## Miss B (Nov 12, 2007)

There's joking around and there's bullying, and there's a big difference between the two.

If you think there's nothing wrong with bullying, you have a screw loose.


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## Sdaji (Nov 12, 2007)

cris said:


> I agree with the basic idea of what you are saying, you just missed out the words "too much". Sugar is a perfectly healthy food for both kids and adults it all comes down to the quantity.
> 
> I personally think its absurd to suggest a particular food causes obesity, a bad diet AND lack of exercise causes obesity(and very rarely a genetic condition etc.). The Russian Spetznaz eat heaps of animal fat on crackers as a large part diet at times and i can guarantee they are not obese. Fat contains heaps more energy than sugar as you would know.



I said "...in the quantities that many people in the western world consume it is extremely detrimental to one's health" - this is "too much". In small amounts it's perfectly good for you.

For the record, fructose is actually worse for you than sucrose ('table sugar') if you're already eating a 'normal' diet by western standards. The sugar in fruit is doing you just as much harm as the sugar in chocolate or lollies. Yes, fruit comes with goodies such as vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc, but the sugar in it is still bad. Many lollies and soft drinks are sweetened with fructose (the introduction of 'high fructose corn syrup has been devastating to the health of people in the west, particularly in the USA). Because fructose is worse for you, gram for gram, you can be decieved into thinking that foods or drinks sweetened with it are less unhealthy, because less needs to be put in. When you read the nutritional information on food packaging, check the type of sugar as well as the amount. Of course, if you're overweight and trying to rectify the situation, you shouldn't be eating the type of foods which contain added sweeteners anyway.

I don't think it's at all absurd to say that a particular type of food is causing obesity. We can be as sure of the fact that sugar is causing obesity and diabetes in the western world as we are that people are going to continue to squabble about intergrades on APS. We can be sure that chocolate is bad for our health and causes obesity, we can be sure that stuffing pizza into our faces is not conducive to good health.

As said, fat does contain more energy than sugar, however, sugar is probably worse for you. It's a very complex issue and it depends on the person's metabolism and the rest of their diet, but generally (and it's a gross generalisation and oversimplification of the situation) you are better to avoid sugar than fat. If not burned off quickly, sugar is immediately converted to fat and stored in the body. Humans didn't evolve with much sugar in their diets, so we're not well equipped to deal with it well. Because we evolved with it being so scarce, we have instinctive desires to eat a lot of it. Fat is metabolised differently, but yes, as a general rule (again, there are some funny exceptions), it's a good idea not to eat too much fat if you're trying to lose weight.


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## PhilK (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah sorry I just got paying eachother out mixed up with everyone paying one person out... My bad.


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## Radar (Nov 12, 2007)

Clairebear said:


> I can't believe that someone said that kids bullying Naxx set her/him on the right track... (sorry have no idea how to quote)... He/her set him/herself on the right track.
> 
> Kids bullying fat kids is _*NOT*_ acceptable. I am covering bullying in my PDE classes and some of these kids... i can only pray the emotional scarring won't hold them back. As someone who has struggled with their weight (and a slow metabolism) for their whole life, i just have to say that it is so not cool to just blatantly say 'screw fat people' as is basically being said. Taking that first, second and even third step is hard, especially when so many things you try don't keep the weight off. What people need is SUPPORT not criticism. When my friend started taking me walking (i have never been obese but i still felt too self conscious to go walking alone because of people who critised me in life) i lost more weight then ever, and felt great. When the kids in the school yard called out rude words (it didn't happen often thank god) it did nothing for me but make me depressed. And for some people that's a little bit harder to overcome then someone saying 'oh get over it and you'll be fine'.
> 
> I'm much more comfortable about myself now i'm older (thank god!) and enjoy my walkies (but still need a friend to go with or i get bored) and love my vegies!!! but please... think about what you're saying and how many people you may be setting back when you go to make a fatty comment. It hurts. And it hurts to see the kids affected. Nearly didn't post this... ah who cares everyone else puts in their 10... or 20 cents.


 
Bout time someone with some common sense weighed into this argument.


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## Clairebear (Nov 13, 2007)

cheers Rednut... i can't believe how these discussions get out of hand and turn into narrow minded mud fights about different groups (vegetarians, gay people and now fatty's) and it eternally frustrates me i just couldn't be quiet any longer.


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## Timotei (Nov 13, 2007)

Clairebear said:


> cheers Rednut... i can't believe how these discussions get out of hand and turn into narrow minded mud fights about different groups (vegetarians, gay people and now fatty's) and it eternally frustrates me i just couldn't be quiet any longer.



Clairebear, I am in no way a sadist, nor do I make fun of people for their problems.

But from experience I can say that it has taken some criticism in the past to truly become comfortable with myself. I read an article the other day called "why wrapping our kids in cotton wool is damaging them". I agree that letting children be bullied is not the way to go, however it is certainly _not_ acceptable either to be telling children that it is perfectly ok to be obese.

Yes, there are evil little children in the world that grow up into evil adults that like to tease everybody for everything, but there is also the other side of the coin: people that want to tell everybody that they're all ok doing whatever they like and being whoever they want to be. It's instilling these unrealistic expectations in kids that results in depression in the first place. 

Nobody's preparing kids for the bad world anymore, they're rather just getting "very very angry" at the big bad world, writing it many letters, telling them how angry they are. I have long since accepted that no amount of logic, reason, compassion, aggression, pain or pleasure will ever change the world into a gumdrop paradise. As sad as it is, nowadays to survive people simply need to deal with it. It's a cruel expectation, I know, but just because it's unjust, doesn't mean it's going to bugger off.

I don't endorse this, just suggest that people prepare for it - it is happening, it has been happening for a long time, and it will continue happening long after we're gone. Don't we want to prepare children for this ? Don't we want to prepare ourselves for this ?

Just my thoughts.


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## cris (Nov 13, 2007)

Timotei you just hit the nail on the head, i also heard something about a recent study on this too, didnt get to see much though.

Sdaji, attacking sugar was one thing but leave the pizza out of it :x :lol: anyway i dont really want to argue about pizza being a healthy etc. so lets get back to the topic of fat ppl on planes...


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## Sdaji (Nov 13, 2007)

cris said:


> Timotei you just hit the nail on the head, i also heard something about a recent study on this too, didnt get to see much though.
> 
> Sdaji, attacking sugar was one thing but leave the pizza out of it :x :lol: anyway i dont really want to argue about pizza being a healthy etc. so lets get back to the topic of fat ppl on planes...



Hehe, official denial! :lol: 

They shouldn't put those warnings on cigarette packets or put anti smoking propaganda on the television, it'll make smokers feel upset and make them feel the need to smoke more to feel better. Smokers should be praised and allowed to think that their habit is fine - it'll help them to quit.

Jokes aside, fat people shouldn't be ridiculed just to make them feel bad, that's pure sadism. Once anyone falls into a bad state, whether it's obesity, an addiction, depression, etc etc, they're going to find it difficult to get their way out, and they do need support, but they also need to understand that obesity is a severe health risk, and despite nutrition being such a critically important thing for all of us, it is extremely poorly understood.


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## mertle (Nov 13, 2007)

I agree with what Clairbear said!

And also how about the many suicides from people putting their dibs in on if your fat, gay, ugly and things like that?

It does happen a lot, 

Being Obese isn't too good for you but remarks from thin fit people like you can just go out and lose it or pay extra for things like plane tickets is just plain nasty. Sure you may want to help them out but it's not the way to go.

Like Clair mentioned, Support is the way to go, it's the same for any addict too, smokers and the like.

It has also been proven in tests that there is something in SOME people that makes the fats that they eat go straight onto the "thighs" so to speak and with naturally thin people they have a normal gene, and it's more prevalent than people thought, they are working on a drug to suppress the transformation of the fats, I'm not a doctor and that's all I heard on reports.

Anyway, it's not nice to call anyone names, 

You could say "sticks and stones" but it really does do psychological damage to many people,


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## Clairebear (Nov 13, 2007)

Yeah bullying does happen naturally, and all overweight kids do need help getting it off. I'm in no way saying schools endorse being overweight, just stopping the mental anguish associated with it. I'm glad people are stopping on the 'bullying is even remotely acceptable' thing. Cause by saying 'oh it'll help them grow thick skin' is also saying to the kids bullying that they have a right to be bullies... cause those kids don't just stop at bigger people... Also have you noticed how a lot of bullies are bigger kids? What do you think creates a bully? Often someone who's been a VERY bad victim of it.

Tuckshops are now not allowed to serve all the really bad stuff, and schools can't have soft drink machines. All students do PE up until gr11 or something, all these are steps, which is more than has happened in the past. Oh and a large portion is up to the parents. Instilling good eating habits.

Oh and it makes me mad when i have to deal with perfectly healthy weighted girls who have been told they are fat!!!! In fact in some cases they are underweight!!! Kids can be so cruel.


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## slim6y (Nov 13, 2007)

Personally it all comes down to the family... I was bullied as a younger kid, now come to think of it I am still bullied haha... some people (like me) just attract it... Ok... sarcasm amongst that... But what it comes down to people can call me a podgey bald arrogant something or other if they want, it doesn't affect me in any way what so ever based on the fact I am comfortable with who I am. I think a lot of that came from having a strong family unit. Good friends also helped. But above all just the ability to get through life without things like that getting to me. 

Ok - so good family values, good healthy eating, less PS2 and more walking... Less greenhouse gas emissions and much stronger bodies and mind... Is it to hard to ask for? Or is it just being to general?

Incidentally - the original point of this thread was - and let me remind you of it... Should fat people (termed for the obese - in most case their personal choice) pay more for airline tickets as the news pointed out. And when someone who loses weight gets charged extra $$$ for excess baggage I also find unfair - though clearly impossible to police, but that's not the point!

So back to the original argument which eventually stems back to bullying and in other form of discrimination.


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## Dipcdame (Nov 13, 2007)

Timotei, not all overweight people lack self-respect, but have you stopped to think that lack could be due to a problem within the person, eg, upbringing, etc?? 
Some people have absolutely no confidence in themselves, have a very poor self image, and therefore, health issues, and any other so-called "motivation" to get and stay thin are pointless. They mena nothing to the depressed who eat for comfort. To them, health takes a back-burner in order to cope, and deal with the depressive issues which take precedence. To them, comfort and inner well being feelings are more important than health, and so, a lot of severely depressed people WILL eat, no matter what the warnings are, or the comments of some small minded people who judge overweight people on appearance, and not what is inside. 
Any adverse, negativity about weight issues will only drive the depression / eating cycle more. Maybe the insensitive people who sit in their little ivory towers and have nothing better to do should keep their silly ideas to themselves.
Sorry, I know this sounds bitter, and maybe it is, but people who are totally insensitive to others feelings and think they are clever coming up with such inanities really get up my nose.


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## bump73 (Nov 13, 2007)

Dipcdame said:


> Timotei, not all overweight people lack self-respect, but have you stopped to think that lack could be due to a problem within the person, eg, upbringing, etc??
> Some people have absolutely no confidence in themselves, have a very poor self image, and therefore, health issues, and any other so-called "motivation" to get and stay thin are pointless. They mena nothing to the depressed who eat for comfort. To them, health takes a back-burner in order to cope, and deal with the depressive issues which take precedence. To them, comfort and inner well being feelings are more important than health, and so, a lot of severely depressed people WILL eat, no matter what the warnings are, or the comments of some small minded people who judge overweight people on appearance, and not what is inside.
> Any adverse, negativity about weight issues will only drive the depression / eating cycle more. Maybe the insensitive people who sit in their little ivory towers and have nothing better to do should keep their silly ideas to themselves.
> Sorry, I know this sounds bitter, and maybe it is, but people who are totally insensitive to others feelings and think they are clever coming up with such inanities really get up my nose.


 

Yeah but how many of these people became depressed BECAUSE of their weight issues??

The blame can be thrown in all directions but at the end of the day there is only one person who can break the cycle, I don't think saying it's ok and should be socially accepteble is the right way to combat the epidemic..

IMO health issues should NOT be linked with discrimination.. Lets face we are all going to be paying one way or the other for the lifestyle these people lead through increased health costs..As has been said if you can have a go at a smoker why should a fatty be any different??
Ben


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## pixie (Nov 13, 2007)

on a lighter note, if fat people have to pay more on planes do big people have to pay more for clothes, they do use more fabric than smaller people!!!


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## mertle (Nov 13, 2007)

Big people already do pay more for clothes!

You will never see the specials on big peoples clothing that you do with smaller stuff, 

I would love to buy some t-shirts and things cheaper!!!!

And smaller people have more variety and it doesn't all look like crap hehehehehe


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## Miss B (Nov 13, 2007)

pixie said:


> on a lighter note, if fat people have to pay more on planes do big people have to pay more for clothes, they do use more fabric than smaller people!!!


 
Hahaha, if only that were the case! I think you're on to something there...
Clothes should be priced based on how much fabric they use, never again would we have to fork out $150 for a bikini :shock: :lol:

But as far as the airplane ticket issue goes ... I dunno ... when you buy a ticket, you are purchasing *a)* a seat on the plane and *b)* a luggage allowance. So if you are so big that you need two seats, then I can see why airlines would charge you double (...which raises another question, if you pay for two seats, do you get the double the luggage allowance??). So really, I don't think your body weight should have anything to do with the price of your ticket or your luggage allowance. Logistically speaking, it would be a nightmare for the airlines to weigh every passenger and adjust their luggage allowance accordingly.

It still sucks that Maddy got charged for her excess luggage though (on a domestic flight too!). When my boy and I flew home from New Zealand last year, our luggage was 8kg over the limit. They could have charged us $80 if they really wanted to, but the girl who checked us in was really nice and just overlooked it. Same story this year, flying home from NZ, we were about 5kg over. The guy checking us in didn't charge any excess, he just asked us to try and keep from going over the limit next time. It may have been all the eyelash batting I was doing, but who cares, so long as we didn't get charged :lol:


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## slim6y (Nov 13, 2007)

There's always the possibility of fat taxes, remove advertising for fatty or high sugar foods, change school canteens and tuck shops to accomodate for healthy foods only, make fatty and high sugar foods as dangerous as smoking by advertising warnings on their packets. Remove unfair advertising such as the 99% fat free marshmallows...

The point is... We need to change our lifestyle... and only 20 years ago (or so) people changed their perception about smoking - so we need to change the mindset of obesity!

Miss B - It's not as much the baggage allowance and the seat they were mentioning - but it was the fact that planes use more fuel for the extra weight and they want to charge for it and fair enough to! Why should I pay for my 78kg bulk compared to a 120kg self obsessed muscle man? I'm 40kg lighter... will they give me 40kg more luggage allowance if I bat my eyelids or show a bit of breast... Actually.. haha.. they did... but that's not the point I am getting at...


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## pixie (Nov 13, 2007)

my favourite t-shirt place is Target.. i get most of my clothes cheaply cause i dont dress girly, being my height i fit boys sz 14 clothes.. occasionally if i stay at mum's and need a jumper or shirt i just take one of my little brother's ones..
in some ways its better, all the ladies' jumpers i can find cheap in geelong are the midriff ones which i find ridiculous


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## Naxx (Nov 13, 2007)

> I would love to buy some t-shirts and things cheaper!!!!
> 
> And smaller people have more variety and it doesn't all look like crap hehehehehe


 
hey you cant complain ur a chick, u have more variety then us men know what to do with, women get 3 floors, men get the corner of the top floor, a little tiny section


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## eerin (Nov 13, 2007)

bahahahahahah to this whole thread


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## Sdaji (Nov 13, 2007)

pixie said:


> on a lighter note, if fat people have to pay more on planes do big people have to pay more for clothes, they do use more fabric than smaller people!!!



The vast majority of the cost of making clothing is in the labour, especially with shoes. The actual materials are negligible in most cases. When it comes to very cheap clothing, the amount of material can be significant in the cost, and sometimes they are priced differently.

Should food for large people be cheaper, because they need to eat more? Men require more calories than women, should they recieve subsidised food?

Weighing people at the airport wouldn't be logistically difficult, you already have your bags weighed, you could just stand on the scales with them. I can see it now... "Oh, gee, my luggage is _so_ heavy..." :lol: (yeah, okay, another ticket to Hell!).


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## urodacus_au (Nov 13, 2007)

*Fairs fair*

Work out the weight capacity of the plane and divide this by the customers it can carry. If a bigger person needs two seats then they can pay twice the fare. Im thinking along the lines of a benchmark weight taken from an average with anything exceeding this being paid for. If your larger but carrying very little baggage this could be taken into consideration when working out your fare.

There is the issue of too little space aswell. I dont want a huge person sitting next to me taking up what little space i have been allocated, which does end up happening. I dont care if your overweight but why should i have to suffer through a flight with your bulk overflowing into my seat? I paid good money for my seat like everyone else.

Maybe larger seats could be allocated for larger people? Obviously this would incure a larger fee though.

As for pregnent women, they made a conscious choice to have a child, the rest of us shouldnt have to pay for it.

I have no animosity towards larger people, theres plenty of people in my family that are overweight. Fairs fair though.

Cheers
Jordan


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## slim6y (Nov 13, 2007)

Can't see a can of whip donkey coming your way Jordo... but was worth the laugh haha!


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## urodacus_au (Nov 13, 2007)

:lol:


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## slim6y (Nov 13, 2007)

Perhaps you would all do well to watch this informative and educating lecture at a theatre in england...

---------------------------

[video=youtube;CkesRVzEjtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkesRVzEjtk[/video]


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## BiteAndSqueeze (Nov 13, 2007)

I support fat tax. Whilst I am sure there are some psychological factors involved, basically you don't get fat unless you put a lot of food into your mouth. Don't smoke. Don't over eat. Don't blame other people if you do smoke or over eat. Be prepared to pay for the consequences of what you do. Plane fuel = weight to be lifted. If you have more weight to lift you should pay more. If you don't like it, stop eating so much .


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## Tatelina (Nov 13, 2007)

Isis said:


> Well you cant have a butt that size and not be over weight. If you let yourself get that big then you had better learn to deal with.



Eeeeeeeexactly.


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