# DON'T let your beardie's hibernate then breed too young!



## =bECS= (Feb 1, 2014)

Here's why...
I picked up a nice 12 month old pair of beardies from RDU this week.
The male was bigger than the female and they were kept together since they were both 7 weeks old. The owner told me that she was smaller because she hibernated longer than the male.
I explained that its not a good idea to let them hibernate so young but the female looked and seemed to be healthy, just small.

The following morning I noticed her scratching around her enclosure and she wasn't interested in food, I put it down to her being in a new environment.

That afternoon I check on her again and I find her in the middle of laying eggs! Now this girl is tiny, there's no way she should be breeding, all up she laid 12 eggs which is pretty impressive given her size.

Now 2 days later she is being hand fed because she won't eat, she's on liquid calcium doses daily and showing signs of paralysis in one of her rear legs.

She is a beautiful baby girl, she shouldn't have to go through this ordeal. She is skin and bone now, its taken its toll on her.

Please take heed and don't allow your beardies to breed so young! Sometimes people think that because they are young they can't have eggs, but they can and will and the female will suffer


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## NickGeee (Feb 1, 2014)

+1.
its frustrating when people breed animals too young even when told several time not too... Then bad stuff happens to both offspring and mother


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## =bECS= (Feb 1, 2014)

For the record, there will be no offspring from this batch. They were left in the enclosure with the hope she might eat them. She didn't and they're gone now.

My only worry apart from the amount of calcium she would have needed to produce these might result in MBD, is that she might go again in a month  Shes on heavy doses of calcuim syrup though and being hand fed baby food and fresh shed squashed mealworms in the hope she can put on some weight and regain her appetite


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## Rogue5861 (Feb 1, 2014)

I wouldnt worry so much about age as i would with weight and size. Age doesnt tell you how much they have eatten or not but size and weight do. A female around 200g could definately breed, not saying that is the recommended weight though.

Just keep up the protein and she should be back to normal in no time 


Rick


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## =bECS= (Feb 1, 2014)

I hope so Rick, you can see how small she is in the pic on my hand.


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## Rogue5861 (Feb 1, 2014)

I breed my female at around 380g and she would contine to drop down to 310g (from 420g) after each clutch, she is now finished laying and is back up around 400g. First ever clutch was 23 and second was 20, not bad considering they should only lay around 12-16 eggs first time.


Rick


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 1, 2014)

good on you Bec you seem to have the right attitude,but as Rick says age is not the main indicator for breeding because they are capable of breeding from a certain size not a certain age although most responsible people will not breed too early.I keep all mine separate from a young age to avoid early pregnancies


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## =bECS= (Feb 1, 2014)

She's less than 150g  

I can understand if they have decent weight and size and the owners have experience & know what they are doing. 

In this case, like so many, they belonged to a young kid who really had no idea. 4 of them were kept in a 3 or 4 ft tank, 2 males 2 females of differing sizes. She was the smallest.


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## Rogue5861 (Feb 1, 2014)

She was probably over 240g before she laided, im sure she will bounce back without an issues. Got to remember she hasnt eatten and is as flat as a tack at the moment, once she starts eatting again the weight will come back.


Rick


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## Grogshla (Feb 1, 2014)

aww poor little thing. Good on you!!!
Hope you can get the little up to weight and health again


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## oOLaurenOo (Feb 1, 2014)

I would be considering a vet trip (if you haven't already) just to check for internal parasites and coccidia. When they become run down its a prime time for the bugs to really take there toll and would be worth a look to see if there was another reason she is not eating.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 2, 2014)

Get some pinkie/fuzzie mice into her Bex.


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## =bECS= (Feb 2, 2014)

Tried that Rams she doesn't want a bar of it, spits it out, same with woodies and crix. She will eat the mealworms and pureed apple. 
Hoping the calcium perks her up, she was more alert this afternoon.


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## Grogshla (Feb 2, 2014)

cool. Hope she gets her feeding response up soon.


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## pinefamily (Feb 7, 2014)

How is your beardie going now? Has she started eating again?


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## =bECS= (Feb 7, 2014)

She finally fed on her own today, 4 crix and 4 woodies. It's a start


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## saintanger (Feb 8, 2014)

bec is totally right, i have been through this and it was a hard long painful road.

last year i was asked if i wanted a few central beardies that were small for their age as they had a bad start to life.
i took them on, i soon found out one female was pregnant and was shocked that she was at her size she weighed 180 grams and was 3 years old. she laid 10 eggs and i incubated them. she also stopped eating, i was force feeding her woodies, meal worms, calcium, multivitamins and herpaboost towards the end, she died. 8 out of 10 babies were born deformed, they were all under 1.5 grams wen born and died within minets to hours only 1 normal looking one survived. the other female laid 9 eggs 2 weeks after and i threw the eggs out as i did not want to see any more deformed babies live such a short life. the other female is in good health now and the male has improved heaps too.

i do not know why people keep small females with males and let them breed. that poor girl suffered and so did her babies.


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 8, 2014)

saintanger said:


> bec is totally right, i have been through this and it was a hard long painful road.
> 
> 
> i do not know why people keep small females with males and let them breed. that poor girl suffered and so did her babies.



there are 3 reasons ;
1 they think they can make big $ selling beardies
2 they are total dicks who have no idea
3 combination of above who just don't care


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## =bECS= (Feb 8, 2014)

dragonlover1 said:


> 1 they think they can make big $ selling beardies


Hate to break it to them but unless you have the latest 'in the now' morphs, there is no profit to be made. 
People don't take into account the feeding, cleaning, housing and heating costs involved. 
Unless you grow your own salads and have colonies of insects and use solar panels for heating, you are lucky to break even when all is said and done.


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 8, 2014)

=bECS= said:


> Hate to break it to them but unless you have the latest 'in the now' morphs, there is no profit to be made.
> People don't take into account the feeding, cleaning, housing and heating costs involved.
> Unless you grow your own salads and have colonies of insects and use solar panels for heating, you are lucky to break even when all is said and done.



we know this but the morons will never understand the simple facts.All they see is potential $.
I have a veg garden and a woodie farm and still spend heaps,I know I will never make a $ but that doesn't matter to me .


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## saintanger (Feb 8, 2014)

i buy all my veg at woolworths and buy bulk live insects off livefoods unlimited. i do breed insects but i keep to many insect eating reptiles and sometimes i run out and have to buy in bulk which is about every month or every second month i spend $150-$250 on insects every 1-2 months and about $30-$40 worth of salad every fortnight.

i make no money off what i breed. i bred for the experience and because i love beardies.


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## kitten_pheonix (Feb 8, 2014)

I don't think this is limited to just beardies, I have recently seen someone have a 4mth old gecko laying eggs! (Mind you the person that posted was not the person that intentionally bred her, she was gravid when purchased, and the person said to just put the male back in with her!) 
i don't know why people do stuff like this.


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## dragonlover1 (Feb 9, 2014)

kitten_pheonix said:


> I don't think this is limited to just beardies, I have recently seen someone have a 4mth old gecko laying eggs! (Mind you the person that posted was not the person that intentionally bred her, she was gravid when purchased, and the person said to just put the male back in with her!)
> i don't know why people do stuff like this.



no of course it's not just beardies ,it happens with all animals unfortunately


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## critterguy (Feb 9, 2014)

Poor girl and little deformed buds, I was lucky with my Woma python, the breeder didn't like going off the recommended ages for Woma's, got told to wait longer than that for the animals own good, 18 months for males, 2 years for females.


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## =bECS= (Feb 13, 2014)

Just a quick update. Took a bit to get her eating again, but the mealworms done their job and she's looking better now


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## pinefamily (Feb 13, 2014)

She's looking pretty healthy now. Well done!


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## animal805 (Feb 13, 2014)

=bECS= said:


> Hate to break it to them but unless you have the latest 'in the now' morphs, there is no profit to be made.
> People don't take into account the feeding, cleaning, housing and heating costs involved.
> Unless you grow your own salads and have colonies of insects and use solar panels for heating, you are lucky to break even when all is said and done.



How true, there is no profit in it after you incubate them, feed them, heat them etc. Its all about the enjoyment you get


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 14, 2014)

I am very pleased to hear she has improved. The “signs of paralysis in one of her rear legs” are indicative that she was in a bad way. As explained by *Geckodan*, daily calcium supplementation can result in the opposite effect to what is desired. The continuous high level of calcium in the blood can be interpreted by the body as excess calcium and result in its excretion rather than storage. To circumvent this potential problem calcium supplements should be administered only three times per week. 

Dandelions are an excellent source of calcium. By weight the leaves have more calcium than milk. Beardies usually love both the leaves and flowers. Bunnings had Dandelion plants for sale a while back. I have a heap of seed should be interested in growing your own and cannot access seed.

Well done on salvaging a mistreated animal destined to oblivion. You have done truly well!

Blue


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## pinefamily (Feb 14, 2014)

I went to Bunnings a couple of weeks ago, and was told why would they sell a weed?


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## =bECS= (Feb 15, 2014)

Bluetongue1 said:


> To circumvent this potential problem calcium supplements should be administered only three times per week



Thanks Blue. She was only on small daily doses short term in efforts to boost her up a little and get her eating again.
It seemed to have worked.
I have a garden (used to be lawn lol) filled with 'weeds' behind our shed, my daughter loves picking them for the lizards!

Her rear leg has also come good, had me worried for a bit. Just have to put condition on her and hope there's not a round 2!

Luckily, I have a fair amount of experience in beardies, I've just been out of the game for a fair while.


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