# lace monitor q's



## taylor111 (Mar 26, 2009)

hey 
i am looking at geting a lace monitor and was wondering if a 3m x 4m x2.5m cage would be ok for an aduld


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

bump


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

how big to lace monitors get in total length i hace been told 2-3 metres is that right


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

and how big would a monitor have to be to put it in its final enclosure 3m x 4m x 2.5m


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## DA_GRIZ (Mar 27, 2009)

that size enclosure should be fine.

about 2 metres for males unsure on female i recomend you talk to serpenttongue or crocdoc(not sure if thats the exact username) i have talked to both of them and are both very helpful.


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

cool 


its werid that peoplearnt going mad about a 15 year old getting a lace monitor 

when ever i try to get info on these guys people go crazy


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## DA_GRIZ (Mar 27, 2009)

i wouldn't bother with people like that i want a sand monitor and will most likely get one and me and mum are already planning on a lace monitor when i get a class 2.

only thing is if u get one make sure you can handle it they can give a very nasty bite

deffinatly talk to serpenttongue he is a good bloke and is nearly always willing to help


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## Dave (Mar 27, 2009)

:lol: I had a bloke who had a go at me about a hatchie spencer and the guy was the same age as me and had a pair of spencers? 



DA_GRIZ said:


> i wouldn't bother with people like that i want a sand monitor and will most likely get one and me and mum are already planning on a lace monitor when i get a class 2.
> 
> only thing is if u get one make sure you can handle it they can give a very nasty bite
> 
> deffinatly talk to serpenttongue he is a good bloke and is nearly always willing to help


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

lol

yea my family said i could have the spair room for when its an adult

and how big would it have to be to put in a 3m x 4m room


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

bump


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## boconnor (Mar 27, 2009)

I don't see too much wrong with a 15 year old getting a lace monitor as long as they have done some sort of research and have a good idea on the animal. If you don't know the size they grow to it sounds like you have done little research.

cheers
Ben


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

from what i have hered females get to about 2m


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## taylor111 (Mar 27, 2009)

bump


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## crocdoc (Mar 28, 2009)

I wouldn't knowingly sell a lacie baby to a 15 year old. 

Why? Two reasons:

1. They're a big, active animal that requires a huge enclosure, loads of electricity (if housed indoors) and a prodigious amount of food, which gets very expensive very quickly. That's all fine while you're living with your parents if they're very supportive of your hobby, but at 15 your life is about to start changing a lot. Different interests and probably different living arrangements will all start happening soon. What happens to the lizard then? Suddenly you have an adult lace monitor that no one wants, so it gets passed around from person to person. They're an intelligent reptile and they like having routine in their lives, so it's cruel to continually rehome them. 

2. They're dangerous. This is coming from a person that has two incredibly 'tame' monitors. The tamer they are, the more dangerous they are because people become complacent and take chances. I think lace monitors should be considered in the same way that venomous snakes are and fall under the same guidelines and regulations. If a venomous Australian snake bites you (particularly the highly neurotoxic species), provided you get appropriate medical care your chances of a full recovery are good. If a large male lace monitor bites you it will not kill you, but your chances of permanent damage to an important part of your anatomy (your hands) is high. Forget the cool scar, a solid bite will sever tendons, blood vessels and nerves and even microsurgery is not going to make things right. 

In answer to your questions about length, males _can_ get to around 2 metres, perhaps a bit more, but the vast majority of them don't get past 1.8 metres. Females max out at around 1.4 metres, maybe a small bit more, and about half to a third the weight (or even less) of an adult male.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

boconnor said:


> I don't see too much wrong with a 15 year old getting a lace monitor as long as they have done some sort of research and have a good idea on the animal.


 
The problem is, some 15 year olds can be quite mature for their age, while others are still very much children. 

At 15 years old i was the latter, unfortunately. But i still had a strong fasination and obsession with Lace Monitors, fuelled only by images of them in reptile books. It wasn't until i was 23 that i got my first Lace Monitor, and after having it for 1 year i finally came to the conclusion that i was not ready for this species. Mainly because i was still very much 'hands on' with my reptiles and always wanted to hold it. This led to the animal always being defensive towards me. About 3 years later i was ready for a lacey again and started off with a few hatchlings. 

Keeping lace monitors is definately a relationship built on trust. You need to give the animal a lot of time to itself, never be reaching in to grab it, and also never be invading it's personal space (lifting up it's hide where it believes itself to be secure and undetectable).


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

crocdoc said:


> Suddenly you have an adult lace monitor that no one wants, so it gets passed around from person to person. They're an intelligent reptile and they like having routine in their lives, so it's cruel to continually rehome them.


 
So true, and i feel this is something that often gets overlooked. Acquiring a lace monitor is a big comittment. So often do i see 'for sale' ads for lacies from people who can no longer house the animal due to it's size. The animals growth and potential size should always be taken into consideration when contemplating buying a lacey. I feel sorry for lacies that go from one collection to another. When a lacey enters my collection, it's here to stay. It will live out it's life with me.


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## owcurat (Mar 28, 2009)

As far as spatial requirements go 2.5 times total length of the animal squared (ad 20% for each additional animal) is a good MINIMUM standard for the surface area of an enclosure for most lizards bare in mind lace monitors are highly arboreal and therefore need a very high enclosure. This is the standard used in NSW fauna parks and as such was designed in consultation with professional herpetologists. Couldn't agree more with above coments re the dangers of housing large monitors (I have seen first hand the damage they can do).


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

serpenttongue said:


> The problem is, some 15 year olds can be quite mature for their age, while others are still very much children.
> 
> At 15 years old i was the latter, unfortunately. But i still had a strong fasination and obsession with Lace Monitors, fuelled only by images of them in reptile books. It wasn't until i was 23 that i got my first Lace Monitor, and after having it for 1 year i finally came to the conclusion that i was not ready for this species. Mainly because i was still very much 'hands on' with my reptiles and always wanted to hold it. This led to the animal always being defensive towards me. About 3 years later i was ready for a lacey again and started off with a few hatchlings.
> 
> Keeping lace monitors is definately a relationship built on trust. You need to give the animal a lot of time to itself, never be reaching in to grab it, and also never be invading it's personal space (lifting up it's hide where it believes itself to be secure and undetectable).


 

i read all about that and think i could handle leaving it allone


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

taylor111 said:


> i read all about that and think i could handle leaving it allone


 
That's the right attitude.

Yes, they're definately a 'look but dont touch' animal.


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

they are the best looking monitor by far and yea i think i could handling them


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## DA_GRIZ (Mar 28, 2009)

serpenttongue said:


> That's the right attitude.
> 
> Yes, they're definately a 'look but dont touch' animal.


 



so true . ever since my mum has seen yours she can;t wait for a class 2. lol 

deffinatly one of the best looking species


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## Reptilian66 (Mar 28, 2009)

serpenttongue said:


> That's the right attitude.
> 
> Yes, they're definately a 'look but dont touch' animal.


 
l have never ever kept a Lace Monitor in my whole life, the reason why is l don't have enough space to house them, to keep say one pair of adult Lace Monitor's you need a enclosure that is 6 square metres, and height is very important also seeing they are a tree climber, so why keep a beautiful Lace Monitor locked up in a small enclosure inside all its life.

l also agree they are a look but not touch animal, l keep 5 adult Desert Sand Monitor's (Varanus Gouldii Flavirufus) that only grow to roughly 1.2metres long, l have been to hospital 2 times, that both required surgery, the first time l went in September 2003, l was in hospital for 5 full days, and they had to operate on my left hand twice, because bacteria from a bite on my left thumb got into my blood.

This was from a female Desert Sand Monitor that was only 85cm long, that wanted to eat my left thumb instead of a weaner rat l was offering to her, amagine if it was a adult Lace Monitor that tried to eat my thumb, it would have bitten it of.

So l would think twice about about getting a Lace Monitor, because of the risk envoled here, if you have never ever kept any species of Monitor, a responsible Reptile Keeper, would start of with a (Ridge-Tailed-Storrs-Pygmy-Mulga Monitor's) and gain their experience with them, before they would concider getting a medium or large Monitor.

Please take this advice seriously from experience Reptile Keepers.


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

yes that is true that i havnt had monitors before but im looking for some ridgies atm and as for the enclosure a have a room 3m x 4m x 2.5m


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## crocdoc (Mar 28, 2009)

taylor111 said:


> i read all about that and think i could handle leaving it allone


Don't take offence, but earlier on you were bumping this thread because no one responded after five minutes. How are you going to be with a monitor you can't even see (because it is hiding), never mind touch for possibly up to a year or more?


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

think what you must i dont realy care


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## crocdoc (Mar 28, 2009)

I was simply pointing out that raising baby lacies requires a lot of patience.


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## Dave (Mar 28, 2009)

I thought you decided to get a spencer? cause you were asking what size etc.


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## Reptilian66 (Mar 28, 2009)

crocdoc said:


> I was simply pointing out that raising baby lacies requires a lot of patience.


 l agree raising juvenile Lace Monitor's requires a lot of patience.


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## bulletproofkid (Mar 28, 2009)

*Maturity*

I'm also looking at purchasing a large monitor species either a lace monitor / perentie for my nephew, although they might seem like a fascinating animal they are going to be a huge comittment to ANYONE. Crocdoc has given very good advice to me against adolescents owning lace monitors. My nephew has done his research for the past year on large monitors, has been to zoo's to speak to keepers, emailed various owners of large monitors and i am becoming more accepting of the idea of keeping one of these animals. However crocdoc has very strong points for why a teenager should not keep one of these animals. In the end it is going to come down to how mature you are and whether you can handle looking after a lacie and by telling people "you dont care what they think" is not a great sign of maturity.

In no way am i trying to judge you, as i dont know you. This is just my opinion.

Thanks


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

taylor111 said:


> think what you must i dont realy care


 
Taylor, that's the wrong attitude.

To really get the most out of keeping a Lacey, any advice given by crocdoc or other experienced monitor keepers should really be taken on board.

Lace Monitors are at their most rewarding when they are left completely to themselves. In time they will become bold, and this is when their personality will come out. But frequent handling (especially when young) is like taking a step back in progress.

I cant remember the last time i held any of my lacies. For most of them it would be well over a year. The aviaries are set up so that all i ever have to do is open the aviary door to hand them their food, and wash and refill their water bowl. Apart from this, they're on their own.

I suggest you give it a few years before buying one. In the meantime learn as much as you can about them, and perhaps see if there's any lacey keepers in your area that you can visit occasionally to see their lacies, especially during feeding time. It will give you great insight to their behaviour and demands.


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

sorry about the whole i dont care thing i respect that you are a very experiwnced monitor keeper i just hate it when people say that im imiture


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## Boney (Mar 28, 2009)

people want this and that . but in reality things are alot different . ive had blokes tell me they are getting a lacie but nearly craped themselves when my ackie decided to dart off in his cage and wernt game to pick it up because it might bite:lol: you also need a fair bit of confidence there will be times where you have to lets say get in the cage and catch a 6 foot + lacie they are strong and can turn in your grip to try and bite you, claw you and whatever:lol: there could be times where things could get ugly and you have be quick and decisive because a lacie sure is . they are what i would say is a majestic animal .to be respected tike a tiger:lol: but a asset to any collection with the right mindset and capabilities.

ps wish someone would put up some pics up of when things go wrong . ive got pics of holding big lacies but no blood so no good:lol:


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## taylor111 (Mar 28, 2009)

sorry about the whole i dont care thing i respect that you are a very experinced monitor keeper i just hate it when people say that im imiture and judge me because of my age


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

ANTARESIA1 said:


> ps wish someone would put up some pics up of when things go wrong :lol:


 
Nothing's gone wrong for me yet. But there have been a few times in the past when the heart got pumping!:shock: Fortunately my lacies seem to be quite forgiving to my infrequent pesterings.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

taylor111 said:


> sorry about the whole i dont care thing i respect that you are a very experinced monitor keeper i just hate it when people say that im imiture and judge me because of my age


 
No probs, dude.


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## Dan19 (Mar 28, 2009)

taylor111 said:


> sorry about the whole i dont care thing i respect that you are a very experinced monitor keeper i just hate it when people say that im imiture and judge me because of my age


 
Not being smart but no one was saying that you were immature because of your age, they are refering to your attitude and the way you have responded to people. Good luck with the monitors. Remember to start off small.


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## Boney (Mar 28, 2009)

serpenttongue said:


> Nothing's gone wrong for me yet. But there have been a few times in the past when the heart got pumping!:shock: Fortunately my lacies seem to be quite forgiving to my infrequent pesterings.


 

i know what your saying there . lets just say i look high and low before i enter the cage . also a pair of boots can come in handy also . yeah lessons have been learnt along the way . sounds like i could just be lucky like you Serps ...just hopefully i might win saturday lotto tonight :lol:


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## serpenttongue (Mar 28, 2009)

ANTARESIA1 said:


> i look high and low before i enter the cage . also a pair of boots can come in handy


 
I'm more of a 'welding gloves man' myself.

I pop my head in the doorway and look around for any signs of movement before i step foot inside.


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## crocdoc (Mar 29, 2009)

*Warning: Graphic image*



ANTARESIA1 said:


> ps wish someone would put up some pics up of when things go wrong .:lol:



A picture for you. Lacie meets wrist (not mine). As lacie bites go, this one wasn't bad, as no tendons or arteries were severed. The person to whom this happened later said to me "lucky he didn't get a good solid bite or I would have been in trouble"








serpenttongue said:


> I'm more of a 'welding gloves man' myself.


 
And a picture for you, too. Thick welding glove meets tiny female lacie. She was a bit excitable a few days after laying eggs, for she tried to attack the male and I intervened. Luckily I moved my hand within the glove for two teeth went right through. Had it been the male, the glove would only give the surgeon something extra to pick out of the wound.


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## Tsubakai (Mar 29, 2009)

Maybe you should check out this previous thread. I think very good advice was given in the past. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/lacies-94805 Not much has really changed so not sure why you started a new thread.
Best of luck with whatever you get, I just hope you can handle the potential outcomes.


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## crocdoc (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks, Tsubakai. 

Now I feel silly for wasting my time responding to the same person asking the same questions (at least my answers are relatively consistent!).

I have also noticed that the original poster 'bumped' the thread when no one had answered after 11 minutes for that thread, too. Patience is not a strong suit for anyone at that age.


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## Boney (Mar 29, 2009)

thanks crocdoc for putting the pics up . something to think about thats for sure also a little reminder to not become complacent .. 

also crocdoc you might keep repeating yourself . i think you have to:lol: but i dont think it is wasted on everyone . you are helping people out that you may never know about that read your posts think about things but never post ect ....


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## redbellybite (Mar 29, 2009)

crocdoc ,that wouldnt happen to be 'da donkey's' bite now?...besides the bites to which can be very serious the tail whips can hurt like crazy too..


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## Hooglabah (Mar 29, 2009)

at the pet shop i volunteer at there are two lacies both juvanile not much longer than 2 ft but i'll tell you right now people worry to much about thier claws its thier teeth and tail that get me nervous even the smaller one hes only 1ft and a half has left me with a few nice cuts thanks to his tail. i havent been bitten by them yet but its only a matter of time i reckon i'll get distracted or they will just be quicker then me one day and chomp.


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## Hooglabah (Mar 29, 2009)

the second i heard that large monitors even medium monitors can cause nerve damage i decided against getting anything bigger than a ridge tail i cant afford to lose mobility in my hands cuz then all the things i enjoy doing get seriously impacted. for example i wont be able to shoot or fish or paint my warhammer or play video games or safely handle my snakes. at least not as effeciantly as i can now.


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## crocdoc (Mar 29, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> crocdoc ,that wouldnt happen to be 'da donkey's' bite now?


Sorry, no idea who 'da donkey' is?


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## serpenttongue (Mar 29, 2009)

crocdoc, da donkey is a member here on APS. If i remember correctly, he caught a wild lacey on Hamilton Island while under the influence of alcohol. He was bare chested at the time and the lacey managed to scratch his chest and bite his hand. I think he went to hospital for it.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 29, 2009)

Here it is.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/chit-chat/lacy-takes-down-a-donkey-96382


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## crocdoc (Mar 29, 2009)

brainiac.

The silliest thing about that whole story is that lacies are the easiest things to get photos of without having to grab them. They're natural posers. I've got thousands of photos of wild lacies - grabbing one is pointless and unnecessary and causes undue stress to the animals.


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## Dan19 (Mar 29, 2009)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/goanna-bite-106916
Talking about monitor bites.


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## redbellybite (Mar 30, 2009)

Iam sure donks knows how silly it was ....he even admitted it ..just thought you might of had the before shot of his wrist that was all ...


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## notechistiger (Mar 30, 2009)

I was always under the opinion that someone should get any kind of reptile they wanted as long as they had the right attitude and did their research. In this case, after spending time helping a friend look after his lacies, I must agree that they are not for teenagers. They do indeed need to be left alone. You need a LOT of patience with them, and frankly, I can't remember meeting a teenager with that kind of patience  

If you haven't had any kind of experience with owning a monitor before, then perhaps a lace monitor isn't an ideal choice. Although, if you still go ahead and get one, maybe you'll be like serpenttongue and realise that you aren't ready for something you can only have minimal contact with. Just remember to keep the monitor's best interests and wellbeing in mind.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 30, 2009)

ANTARESIA1 said:


> ive got pics of holding big lacies


 
Can we see some of these, please??


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## Frozenmouse (Apr 2, 2009)

crocdoc said:


> brainiac.
> 
> The silliest thing about that whole story is that lacies are the easiest things to get photos of without having to grab them. They're natural posers. I've got thousands of photos of wild lacies - grabbing one is pointless and unnecessary and causes undue stress to the animals.


well his name isnt "da brain surgeon"


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## seanjbkorbett (Apr 2, 2009)

well i have a lace monitor myself,after keeping 2 other species of monitor previously..so yeah i agree with crocdoc and serpenttounge,i dont recommend lace monitors for the average 15yr old dude!..
cheers


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## serpenttongue (Apr 2, 2009)

Sean, any pics of your lacie?


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## seanjbkorbett (Apr 2, 2009)

serpenttongue said:


> Sean, any pics of your lacie?



yes in my profile.


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## richardsc (Apr 3, 2009)

i can picture feeding time,u jump in the cage with a rat,hahahah
taylor if u want one only you can decide,if u think you can handle it,by all means go for it,if you think it will be just like a 2 metre long bluetongue,your in for a supprise,monitors,if kept right will eat you out of the house,and then some,ridgies and gillens are bad enough,can u supply the same for a growing lacie,a rat here and there wont cut it

i dont have an issue with young and/or inexperienced people getting things like a lacie,as im sure the other folk who seem to scare u away from it,having kept lacies and many other monitor species,i/we are trying to let you know what you will be in for is all,end of the day,its your decision,if your like me,if you want it,you eventually get it,lol

one last point,do a search on monitor bites on here,i know some very tame ones that have mistakenly bitten a few keepers off here,or just snapped out of the blue,we arent just talking bout a little blood here,i know one bite that required 11 stitches,perhaps some pics from monitor bites would be better shown to you,they dont mess around,and even the most experienced are at risk from it


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## richardsc (Apr 3, 2009)

lol @ da donk,frilly nip had to be bettered,what better than a lacie


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## DA_GRIZ (Apr 3, 2009)

richardsc said:


> i can picture feeding time,u jump in the cage with a rat,hahahah
> taylor if u want one only you can decide,if u think you can handle it,by all means go for it,if you think it will be just like a 2 metre long bluetongue,your in for a supprise,monitors,if kept right will eat you out of the house,and then some,ridgies and gillens are bad enough,can u supply the same for a growing lacie,a rat here and there wont cut it
> 
> i dont have an issue with young and/or inexperienced people getting things like a lacie,as im sure the other folk who seem to scare u away from it,having kept lacies and many other monitor species,i/we are trying to let you know what you will be in for is all,end of the day,its your decision,if your like me,if you want it,you eventually get it,lol
> ...


 


well said mate.


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## peterjohnson64 (Apr 3, 2009)

I dont have any large lacies at the moment but i have rescued and cared for wild caught adult males. This would be really good experience for anyone wanting to keep one as you can get an understanding of how food focussed they are. Its great to see pics of tame ones crawling over their owners (my fault I know) but this is very rare. Some people, as said in this thread, don't even venture into their enclosures. Th eiwld caught ones I look after are kept in a pit and I feed them by throwing the rats into them. I would never gon in to their cages with food in my hand once I know they remember me as a food source.

I would receommend that anyone wanting to buy one, regardless of their age and experience, hang around a keeper for a while and get to know what they are all about.


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## charlies (Apr 15, 2011)

Hi taylor,My name is simon i have been keeping reptiles for over 15 yrs and have been removing reptiles[mainly venomous] for over 12yrs.On the odd occasion have had to remove large monitors.I can fully understand you wanting a lacey i was the same with my first croc.Ihave been following this forum with great interest.I really think you should try to get some experience first with handling monitors first,maybe ask your local reptile dealer for some assistance.Everyone who has given you advice are on the money,Its a huge responsibility and they do BITE BAD...Im not trying to put you of but you really have to be in the right mind[if you know what i mean]


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## nemesis (Oct 12, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> It wasn't until i was 23 that i got my first Lace Monitor, and after having it for 1 year i finally came to the conclusion that i was not ready for this species. Mainly because i was still very much 'hands on' with my reptiles and always wanted to hold it. This led to the animal always being defensive towards me. About 3 years later i was ready for a lacey again and started off with a few hatchlings.



this oh so very true i'm going through the same thing at the moment, i dont doubt that a 15 yr cannot look after it, however sooner rather then later you will have to move and they really dont like being moved (they are all claws and tails when they have to be caught and moved this is extremely traumatic for them) i have done this 2 times now and regret it dearly. i thought i was ready for a lacie but life is a bitter kick in the pants and now i'm starting at square one with him again because he associate me with moving him. 
the are verry intelligent animals that require time, effort and lots of dedication, this is somewhat frustrating at times because you seem to never get anywhere with them ... my advice is to wait. this is a decision to be made when ur older its not about you its about the health and well-being of the lacie


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