# Bring back the cane!!!!!??????? for the juvenile problem



## guzzo (Feb 4, 2011)

Darwin and the surrounding suburbs are infested with juvenile delinquents....they are lawless and run free with the knowledge that the courts hand out slaps on the wrist and thats all.

In the last six months two seperate houses have been burnt down killing a small boy and a respected man as they slept.....juveniles suspected but of course there is never enough evidence.

Gangs of youths wander the street.......

A young boy was bashed and his jaw shattered by a group of youths while he waited for a bus.

A man comes home with his wife holding his baby and gets stabbed 10 times by youths that were robbing their place and the offenders get 1 year jail and their names not released because they are a juvenile and must be protected.

The legal system is a joke.

When i went to school there was the cane....it was feared and respected and though i was on the receiving end many a time I feel it did me no ill.

I wish it would be brought back as it is obvious that so many juveniles are receiving no discipline at home. 
Maybe the cane would make a difference at an early age as there is no respect for the law these days.

I suppose that they would have to actually go to school though!

Too many soft people who keep making excuses for young scum who will inevitably grow to be major criminals.....

just feel frustrated and angry about the above and needed to vent.....what’s your thoughts????

Any soloutions??


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## dihsmaj (Feb 4, 2011)

guzzo said:


> A young boy was bashed and his jaw shattered by a group of youths while he waited for a bus.


 Well, I'm not going to school anymore.


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## Chicken (Feb 4, 2011)

there is a different way and a much better way of disciplining and punishing kids, it is not physical abuse.


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## Grunter023 (Feb 4, 2011)

I work in a Juvenile Justice Center and I supervise kids like this everyday, and they are in and out of our center like yo-yo's. I tend to not let their crimes get to me - but sometimes its hard to treat them equally. Usually they come from the worst backgrounds you could think of. I am just glad I was brought up correctly and so will my children.


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## guzzo (Feb 4, 2011)

Reptilerookie321 said:


> there is a different way and a much better way of disciplining and punishing kids, it is not physical abuse.


 


Domestic discipline applied correctly is not abuse.......what these thugs are doing to society is abuse......however if you think going around our streets at night hugging these kids will make a difference then let me know and I will visit you in hospital and ask you again for a touchy feely solution.


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## Black.Rabbit (Feb 4, 2011)

If the cane was brought back into schools... the delinquent kids wouldn't bother even going (if they don't already).

There is always a reason kids like that are the way they are, they wouldn't do it for nothing. Physical punishment wouldn't help the cause in any way, it'd probably do more harm than good in the long run.

Tougher sentences and more thorough psychological analysis coupled with treatment would probably be a more successful answer to the problem. IMO anyway...


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## guzzo (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree about tougher sentences.....and I also agree that they would not go to school....most don't now........I really think it is a problem too far gone and I don't know the solution. Courts take in to account their abuse as a child and their tough neglected upbringing and give them leniency for their crimes but what about their innocent victims???? If i was holding my baby and was stabbed while coming home I can think of only one punishment that fits this scum.............but that is just me.


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## Black.Rabbit (Feb 5, 2011)

guzzo said:


> Courts take in to account their abuse as a child and their tough neglected upbringing and give them leniency for their crimes but what about their innocent victims????



It should be taken into account, but sentences should not be reduced because of it. Maybe they should employ a program similar to those who have drug addictions... mandatory rehabilitation to deal with the abuse and neglect WITH the tougher sentence. Just giving them a lower sentence is like a bandaid that is not waterproof... without the help they need they will only re-commit.

I've worked with teenagers with behavioural problems, some who have been in juvies and some with the threat of juvie floating above their heads... (most) when they are on their own in the right environment they aren't horrible kids, they need help, someone who will listen to them and a positive role model.


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## guzzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I can appreciate that but find it hard to have any compassion towards them when you take things like this into account.
 A child care centre here was broken into by juvies one night. 
A hutch of rabbits and guinea pigs that were loved pets at the centre were tortured and killed by these kids with bricks and sticks......just kids having fun I suppose some will say. 
Only one rabbit survived and it was crippled. The little kids who loved these pets were crushed and did not understand. 
If these Juveniles broke into our beloved herp rooms and killed or maimed our prized collections would you be happy to dismiss their actions and say they are just troubled kids and I understand??
 I am sorry but I can not at all find any excuse for this kind of behaviour.


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## scottyo998 (Feb 5, 2011)

i agree that there are no excuses, but i doubt the idea of a cane would help. I know that if i were going around doing things like you have mentioned, the threat of getting hit with a cane would serve as no deterrent at all. However i do whole heartedly agree that they should get stricter penalties.


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## guzzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I know! I agree it probably would not solve anything, I just don't know what the answer is......i really just don't know (and don't think) if there is an answer.....I just know that as a father i try to bring my kids up with respect for others. Maybe national service??


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## Leeloofluff (Feb 5, 2011)

The generation gap would still be bad, all these kids who strut around like they're untouchable. So much disrespect wherever you look. I would want to bring back conscription, or at least make every teen do a year in the cadets. I did, and it gave me something to do, something to take pride in. Most crimes committed by these kids are out of boredom. 
But it makes me angry and ashamed to see kids these days, theyr so dumb! And arrogant, but how to make them see any different. Ugh I could go on forever..


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## guzzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I so agree....what is in place now is clearly not working.


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## Jumala (Feb 5, 2011)

maybe Australia should take a leaf out of Singapores book ...... there is not a lot of crime in that country because of all the penalites that they have in place .....


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## Snakeluvver2 (Feb 5, 2011)

Bring back the cain. 
My Mom and Dad used to belt me, never too much though just enough to think twice about being a smart****.
Now you can't even do that.


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## Virides (Feb 5, 2011)

I remember being in grade 4 I think and being in trouble for stripping someone's rose bush, just cus it seemed like fun to throw roses at eachother lol... But I was in the principal's office and remember seeing the cane leaning against his desk. The mere sight of it was discipline enough. I wasn't hit with it, as I think at the time, the cane was being phased out of schools.

My parents were also the discipline type when I was younger and I feared my Dad for a long while. They weren't abusive, just strict when required 

I never really did much that would get me in trouble, simply because I didn't want to experience the wrath of my Dad.

So the cane, albeit disciplinary, wasn't the driving factor of my choices, it was my parents.


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## Jeffa (Feb 5, 2011)

send them to cadets as juvies so they can learn discipline and if they are still trouble makers when they turn 18 send them straight to the army. Same with boat people, if you want to be an Australian, fight for it.


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## Fuscus (Feb 5, 2011)

A simplistic solution for a complex problem. 
Does the threat of cancer stop people smoking? 
Does the obvious health problem prevent people from eating a McDonalds?
Does the near certain promise of severe injury stop people racing motorbikes?


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## dreamkiller (Feb 5, 2011)

Well I am not ashamed to say I smack my kiddies when they deserve it, but I sure as hell wouldn't let anyone else physically discipline them, on that note they wouldn't be game to behave so badly at school that they would need the cain, because they know they'd be coming home to a big spanking!


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## Gibblore (Feb 5, 2011)

I agree flog the living christ out of them, If they dont comply shoot them!!


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## snakeluvver (Feb 5, 2011)

Often physical punishment makes them grow up to be violent. My friend gets smacked but her behaviour is was worse than mine, and I've never been smacked.



Gibblore said:


> I agree flog the living christ out of them, If they dont comply shoot them!!


 
Oh yeah they're really gunna grow up perfect eh? They will either become shy and timid, or aggressive. We did a debate about this at school I won. Don't argue with me  lol

Also, if you try to cane a juvie, they will turn around and whack you back, that's if your lucky!


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## guzzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Perhaps If judges were accountable for their decisions (like everybody else) maybe things would change. If a patient presents to a doctor time and time again with cancer symptoms and the doctor does nothing, imagine the law suit when the painted discovers down the track he is dying of cancer which (if caught early and treated properly) could have been avoided.

Yet a juvenile can front court time and time again for increasingly more abusive and violent crimes and keeps getting let off with a slap on the wrist or bailed (only to laugh as they leave the court and offend again while on bail)........well why can’t the next poor victim sue the judge when like the above example there is a clear pattern of offending that was also not managed or treated properly.


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## Banjo (Feb 5, 2011)

The cane was around when I was a child, and I recieved on once. 
But the problem lies directly with the parents of the children, children should be taught respect for thier parents and those that have aurthority over them and not mention having respect for others around them as well. There is a proverb written in a old book that says "Spare the rod spoil the child" which is very true IMO, so there needs to be boundries set (rules) within the home and these need to be done with love and never in anger. My children are definately not little angles but they understand repsect and discipline and know thier boundries.
As for the cane being reintroduced, well, now that I'm older I certainly don't agree with it being applied to hand as it can cause injuries, the backside is a much better option and there is a nerve that go from the backside to the brain that triggers a special reaction. 
Without love and respect being taught at home in the first place it will be very hard to solve the problem of kids running wild with no discipline. And this would go along way if the parents also loved and wanted thier children in the first place as it is a sad fact of life that many parents find thier children a hassle. Children are a blessing from God. Just my opinion.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Feb 5, 2011)

Jumala said:


> maybe Australia should take a leaf out of Singapores book ...... there is not a lot of crime in that country because of all the penalites that they have in place .....



Totally agree with you guzzo and Jumala your spot on...you even spit in that country and the fines are astranomical. If you murder someone in Singapore and your found guilty, the favour is returned with the death penalty. There is no waiting list in Singapore either, your straight into the gas chamber and bye bye. People over their aren't even game to fart without receiving punishment. There are women that walk around the streets at all hours of the night in Singapore, because there is no fear of being raped or killed, all because of the harsh penalties that are in place. 

Australia is a joke when it comes to our own justice system and to be honest, I don't ever see it changing. The country will just keep getting weaker and weaker and unfortunately we will end up following Americas path were there is a murder or rape committed every 3 seconds and that really saddens me!


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## abnrmal91 (Feb 5, 2011)

Can't we just take them outback and shoot them. I am sure they won't be missed and all there doing is stealing oxygen


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## grimbeny (Feb 5, 2011)

If the youths of darwin are so violent I think there is probably a more severe problem. There have always been rough neighbourhoods it is not a new problem. 

I bet that rates of violence among youths did not increase when the cane was phased out even though that is the time that any change would be most obvious. If the lack of discipline in schools really is a problem why did it take 15yrs for anyone to notice? 

My guess is that you are actually just getting older and more bitter. It is a widely observed pattern that as people get older they become more bitter about change, they only remember the good things about their past and feel like the world is some how coming to an end. When in reality promising changes are happening all the time. In the last 50yrs we have seem some of the most important people empowering changes and I expect the future has more install.


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## spilota_variegata (Feb 5, 2011)

Conscription for offenders into the military. If you stuff up in the military, you don't get punished, the others in your squad do. It's amazing how quickly people pick up their game when they realize they'll get the snot knocked out of them by their peers if they continually play up.

At least that's the way it was when I was in the military. It's probably changed now - too many bleeding heart, PC, softies out there.


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## grimbeny (Feb 5, 2011)

Jungleman said:


> The country will just keep getting weaker and weaker and unfortunately we will end up following Americas path were there is a murder or rape committed every 3 seconds and that really saddens me!



If the death penalty is so useful at deterring murder then why do US states that have the death penalty have higher murder rates per person than states that don't?


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## Elite_Reptiles (Feb 5, 2011)

You can't be serious grimbeny???...

You use to be able to leave your door open with no fear of being robbed...what does that have to do with being bitter?

You use to be able to walk around the streets at all hours of the night without fear of being bashed, raped or even killed...what does that have to do with being bitter?

You see innocent old people well into their 80's and especially our old war heros that are getting broken into and bashed for what little they have...they weren't bitter against society before this happened to them or their loved ones, but I'm sure as hell they are now!



spilota_variegata said:


> Conscription for offenders into the military. If you stuff up in the military, you don't get punished, the others in your squad do. It's amazing how quickly people pick up their game when they realize they'll get the snot knocked out of them by their peers if they continually play up.
> 
> At least that's the way it was when I was in the military. It's probably changed now - too many bleeding heart, PC, softies out there.


 
Another good idea spilota, it should be made compulsory for every student that leaves school gets enrolled into the armed forces for a minimum of 12 mths. I spent a short time in the Airforce and if anyone can straighten a bent rod, it's them!


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## grimbeny (Feb 5, 2011)

Omg yes im sorry, I completely forgot murder was only invented in the year 2000. 

Heres the title of an article from the cover of the Sydney Mourning Herald on Saturday, April 05, 1958






Im just guessing but I probably could have found an earlier example if I looked hard enough.


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## spilota_variegata (Feb 5, 2011)

Jungleman said:


> Australia is a joke when it comes to our own justice system and to be honest, I don't ever see it changing. The country will just keep getting weaker and weaker and unfortunately we will end up following Americas path were there is a murder or rape committed every 3 seconds and that really saddens me!



Too true. Some places in Australia are already far worse than the USA. Alice Springs has the highest rate of stabbing murders than anywhere else in the world. It's guns that kill people in the USA. Take away the guns and people will be a lot more reluctant to go one on one with someone. Sure it takes a person to pull the trigger but killing someone with a knife is far more personal than just pointing a gun at someone and killing them.

I've digressed considerably from the original subject. I say "bring back the cane."


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## Elite_Reptiles (Feb 5, 2011)

Why are you even in this conversation? You are 23 dude...lol, you're life hasn't even started yet! When you are in your 40's and have experienced life a lot more, then come back and argue the point, that is if your still alive by then and not too bitter...lol.


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## grimbeny (Feb 5, 2011)

Thank you for reminding me to not get involved in internet dis-agreements. Although I was hoping for an intelligent debate I got slapped with ignorance. Its a pity that even in todays world people can get to 40 without ever having to think.

If there is a problem with the world today it is that an education is under-valued (probably in the same way that it has always been).


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm with Grimbeny, the levels of crime portrayed in the media don't reflect the true extent of our crime figures, and I believe that statistically speaking you are no more likely to become a victim of serious crime now than you would have been 50 years ago. We perceive that the level of crime is rising all the time because technology has made it possible to report crime as it happens in real time, or only a few hours later on constant news updates. Crime sells. The media feeds of societys fears and fascinations.
And I also understand the remark about people becoming bitter. I remember my elders telling me "This would never have happened when I was your age" My mother would have me believe that crime ,drugs and violence didn't exist when she was a teenager in a sleepy little English town, yet she hasn't heard the stories my uncle (her older brother) tells me of pot smoking, the arrival of LSD, drinking sessions, car theft and gang fights in the 60's.
I sometimes find myself thinking that things are getting worse, yet my adolescense was far more colourfull than the average teen.
The cane isn't going to fix the problem. It never was the answer. It just made the person wielding feel as if they were in control.


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## dossy (Feb 5, 2011)

i will agree with you 99% yes there are juvies out there that need to be sorted out and need a good beating with a stick or belt, but as for the cane, at my school we had teachers that abuse their power of disapline, one teacher gave me an arvo for accidently droping my pen off the desk. if this teacher could cane people id feel sorry for them.

just remember the juvies onlt attack in a good odds number, my mate and i walked home from the train station at 2am and a groupe of juvies were sitting next to us but the 6 of them didnt do any thing because it would have been 3 vs 1 not 6 vs 1, they are cowards.i agree with not releasing the names for their safty but i do think they should see the same punishment for a crime as an adult. murder is still murder, stealing is still stealing and arson is still arson. ill see if i can find out more info but in W.A there were 2 arsons in i think it was 1995 ( correct me if im wrong) a 37 yr old and a 14 yr old both started fires the 14yr olds fire did more damage but he went to juvi for 3 months and the 37 yr old went to jail for 10+ yrs.


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## JungleRob (Feb 5, 2011)

You don't have to be 40 plus to know what corporal punishment is or feels like.

I grew up in South Africa and received my fair share of canings in school and boarding school.

I agree it should be brought back! It is effective and does work.

Australia has strict penalties in place for most crimes, problem is 99% of the time they are never enforced.


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## cement (Feb 5, 2011)

I agree that there was crime back in the 60's etc, but it wasn't juveniles that were the perps. It was generally mob action at high levels of authority with the odd young crim thrown in. People actually feared cops back then too, there was no way juvies were breaking into homes and killing elderly and weak like today.

The problem with today is that there are so many damn bleeding hearts, it has produced a nation of weak, self absorbed losers who won't do anything to improve their lot, expecting the free ride that our stupid government gives them. These people smoke, drink and breed and then expect someone else to bring up their lost kid.

We have an impotent legal system that puts more strain on the country and does nothing for victims of crime. I live and let live but if some juvie delinquent thinks he can put one over me, the cops won't even get a call. I don't give a rats if he's come from a broken home or not.

It is up to us to be more vigilant, and have good self defence methods for us, our families and our homes in place.
You cannot trust the cops or the courts to do the right thing by you if you survive.


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## antaresia_boy (Feb 5, 2011)

Jungleman said:


> You can't be serious grimbeny???...
> 
> You use to be able to leave your door open with no fear of being robbed...what does that have to do with being bitter?
> 
> ...


 
Airforce may do that, I hear the navy may bend the straightened rod though 

I think it's all down to the upbringing of the kid. My parent's have never spanked or hit me, or ever even grounded me really, certainly hasn't turned me into a psychotic thug. A god background with supportive parents and friends is the best way to stop kids from doing stupid stuff. More rehab while the kids are in juvie is needed. We watched a movie about the juvie system in school last year, the kids are locked in cells for hours every day, how is this going to do anything other than make them bitter??


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## FusionMorelia (Feb 5, 2011)

Reptilerookie321 said:


> there is a different way and a much better way of disciplining and punishing kids, it is not physical abuse.


this made me lmao


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## D3pro (Feb 5, 2011)

guzzo said:


> Domestic discipline applied correctly is not abuse.......what these thugs are doing to society is abuse......however if you think going around our streets at night hugging these kids will make a difference then let me know and I will visit you in hospital and ask you again for a touchy feely solution.


 
I agree 100%, I was bought up this way and my kids will be too. My son is the happiest, well mannered kid you will ever meet. And it didn't happen by magic.

In Sicily where I went to school, the teachers still have the cane. No late home work, all the kids were super well behaved and work got done. At grade 1, the kids knew how to spell, write and memorise their times tables by hart. I came to school in Australia at end of grade 2 and the kids were still trying to figure out what 2X0=? 

Bring back the cane, the back hand and the good old belt.
The kids need it.


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## GSMenardi (Feb 5, 2011)

I live in Darwin, in one of the "better" suburbs. In the street I live has many kids and teens that clearly going to end up in juvy, if not dead because the parents aren't discipling them. The parents aren't teaching them to be good kids, they're expecting their children to learn what's good and what's not at school and on their own. 

Our neighbour's eldest sneeks out at night, with the parents full knowledge and they don't actually do much about it aside from a talk to them about. Instead they want us to tell them if he gets out. Their child is not our responsibility, and if if the kid finds out it was us who dobbed him in, there's a good chance his "friends" will target us/our property.

Catch the bus? Be prepared to see the bus driver and passergers abused by drunks, and wacth out for the teens at the main terminals (particularly Palmerston), or you'll be beaten to a pulp, as has happened to friends of mine.

Darwin needs parents to put quality time into their children to teach them to entertain themselves productively, and to discipline them properly and appropriately. If I was naughty, I got smacked. Bad influences were kept away from me, so that i appeared "sheltered" to other young Darwin people, but I am so grateful for it.


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## Torah (Feb 5, 2011)

Berkeley , NSW !!!!!!!!!!! POST CODE GANGS RUN RIOT ! STABBINGS DAILY, break ins 6 houses on one street in one night and then again in 2 months time same houses.....


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## atothej09 (Feb 5, 2011)

Take them out of school and put them straight into the military. We can always do with a bigger army...just look at North Korea.


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 5, 2011)

What makes you think kids that are disciplined harshly dont run off and turn to the street life because they cant handle the strict environment?
Plenty of kids end up on the street because their parents punish to the point of abuse, that is one of the reasons why society has turned against corporal punishment.
There are other ways to keep your kids inline and they are proven to be just as if not more effective


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## D3pro (Feb 5, 2011)

*squeeze them to tight and they will rebel and fight back, don't Squeeze at all and they will fly away.*


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## thals (Feb 5, 2011)

I am still in two minds in regards this issue. I do believe children need firmer discipline these days yet I also believe that physical discipline can be overdone to the point of abuse (having been subject to the latter myself). There is a world of difference between a few firm smacks and repeated lashings with belts.


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## Wally (Feb 5, 2011)

atothej09 said:


> Take them out of school and put them straight into the military. We can always do with a bigger army...just look at North Korea.



Just what our armed services need, dysfunctional youths with anger issues.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 5, 2011)

ok, now that you guys have this topic sorted I wonder if belting kids will improve their spelling and basic manners?


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## dihsmaj (Feb 5, 2011)

Ramsayi said:


> ok, now that you guys have this topic sorted I wonder if belting kids will improve their spelling and basic manners?


 
i don thik so.


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## Fuscus (Feb 5, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> Just what our armed services need, dysfunctional youths with anger issues.


Just like Julian Knight! 
BTW - Those in the "stick em in the army" crowd should Google that name


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## garthy (Feb 5, 2011)

flog them!!!! Give the kids a taste of what they are doing to others!, then do it again, and again and keep repeating it until these disrespectful little kids learn what's right from wrong! The luvvy duvvy approach doesn't work, but then neither does chucking them in a juvie centre filled with other little kids! (all they do share stories and see who has bragging rights)
I can promise you, the minute my kids cause someone that sort of distress, they will be severely punished. My kids 6, 4 and 2 always say please and thankyou, they even think the word hate is a swear word! Sure they are naughty sometimes but my wife and I are firm with them.


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## dihsmaj (Feb 5, 2011)

Flogging wouldn't work.
I'm not saying this is bad, but when I was 9, my teacher used to grab my collar, push me against the wall, and yell at me, for calling out/talking in class... which I did a lot.
I kept doing it, it did nothing.
I did it until last year, when I got into keeping frogs.


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## Jen (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't think bringing back the cane would work, the cane was used in a time when parents and the authorities - ie cops - had actual powers. Unless parents decide to discipline their children, and the cops are given back their powers and authority, allowing teachers to cane kids won't work - why should teachers have to discipline someone else's kids? There is no respect for authority in many of today's youth - though, yes, there are those who have half a brain and have respect for other people and their property. However, the government has taken away pretty much everything that would make a kid have any respect for anyone, cops can't do anything, parents are barley allowed to smack their kids etc, the 'do gooder bleeding hearts' have made the govt. take away any actions that parents and police ever had. The police/govt. need to start making these scum kids - and adults - responsible for their actions. Steal a car? No license or car for you. Crash someone elses car? Take away mum/dads car to pay for it. Steal from someone? Your own belongings are removed to pay for the items. Graffiti? Not only have to remove it, but your room/house should be covered. Bring back the public shaming that was around in medieval times, make them appear in public either in stocks (bit extreme) or wearing a shirt that declares their crime. 

Er, rant cut off half way, my ideas of discipline are a little extreme, one subject I studied at uni was the convicts and my essay topic of choice was the forms of punishment used on convicts in early Australia...


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## Jk888 (Feb 5, 2011)

lol i wouldnt sugest bringing it back there would be alot of hospitalized teachers


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## damian83 (Feb 5, 2011)

isnt it more the parents and the schooling system that arent their weights to help the kids know how to act/behave
positive re-inforcement and a bit of capital punishment and slave labour wont hurt anyone


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## Hooglabah (Feb 5, 2011)

I never got smacked, and I have partaken in natural and chemical inebriation, (after I was 18) drank heavily from 16 till 21, fairly well covered in tattoos, work a full-time job, am getting married haveing a child, love and respect my parents and have never hit anybody, stolen anything, set anything on fire, show proper respect to the police even when they are being rude and grouchy to me, pay all my fines and enjoy a happy healthy life.

I'm no exception either all of my friends are the same and I know many many others as well.
There is one thing that stands out above all else is that one or both parents gave a damn about them. 
Enough of a damn to educate them, clothe them, feed them and APPROPREATLY discipline them.
These scummy kids probably have scummy parents, who only saw them as a new tax payed plasma screen tv. 
There is Ofcourse the opposite end of the scale, where they are spoiled brats who parents believe the sun shines out of there back sides and when they do mess up so bad thier parents can't just gloss it over or do the "what a load of rubbish, my Jimmy is an angel" pallava, they will pay for the child in questions muck up or hire the best lawyers they can to get em out.

The Cane, harsher punishment, loud yelling ect, have been proven time and time again to do nothing, evidence has show it all comes down to poor parenting!

The worst part is no parent will ever accept that it's thier fault and nobody will ever tell them they need to pull thier socks up.

The solution would be to take away the one basic right all humans have globally, the right to procreate, parenting licence's or some sort of control to prevent people who are going to be...Inappropriate parents from haveing children.

It will never happen though.


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## FAY (Feb 5, 2011)

hahahaha I like these debates.....no one has the answer.
Judges not giving out proper sentences, the laws will get tougher when a few of the judges or politician's families are targetted with crime.
I do beleive in smacking kiddies, not half killing them, some people don't know the difference.
I was a pretty naughty kid, I got at least one belting a week. I certainly turned out OK, having respect for others , manners, spelling etc lol
If I told any adult to go get you know what......I would of never lived to have seen the next day. 
It is hard work to pull up a kid about their behaviour, it is a lot easier to just let them do what they want. I feel not disciplining your kids as a form of neglect. They become socially unacceptable, left out because let's face it, who wants the local brat in their home? You are doing your child a disservice.


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## guzzo (Feb 6, 2011)

I don't know the answer either, however a friend of mine caught a youngster spray painting his fence and returned the favour by spray painting his hair/face/clothes etc with his own paint. Perhaps this might have taught him to think twice about doing it again.


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## theressa05 (Feb 6, 2011)

as a mum of 5 kids ive brought them up the best i can use there manners be kind to others but it really does ****** me when my 5 yr old gets of the bus on his third day at prep crying cause some grade 5 kid has builled him rang the school they carnt do much wish i could contact his parents maybe they could sort their son out before he gets real nasty but even though i got the cane at school and yes it made me think twice before doing something silly again dont think it would work with kids of today


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## SteveNT (Feb 6, 2011)

When I was 13 (1960's) I stole sme stuff, got caught, and the coppers gave me a hiding I didn't forget. My indignity carried no weight with my family or anyone else. I crossed the line, paid the price and I've been good ever since. Well, more careful anyway.


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## pythrulz (Feb 6, 2011)

While junenile crime is as mentioned out of control parents and the way kids are bought up have a lot to do with it In america they have a program in some prisons that repeat offenders are taken to the jails there and spoken to some of the long term crimms and told exactly what life there is like every person has the choice to be a good person or not


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## PhilK (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes bring back the cane. I didn't have it when I was at school, but if I did I would have received it many times... I can think of a lot of people (including myself) who deserved it when I went through school, and a lot of kids would benefit from a good caning now too.

School kids now are a joke - I don't know, perhaps I'm just getting older and grumpier but seriously, they are beyond words. I have wanted to punch my little brothers friends so many times (grade 10). Absolutely no manners the way they speak to my parents (no pleases and thank yous, call them by their first name, no manners and graces at all) and to me, rude, unfriendly and would benefit from being put in line for sure.

Unfortunately these days it's unacceptable to discipline children physically, despite the fact humans (and all other animals who have anything to do with their children) have been doing it for thousands of years. You only have to go down to the Coles or Woolies to see the quality of today's children and the "discipline" their parents try to enforce on them.

I was hit a lot when I was younger because I was a little turd, and I turned out just fine and am thankful for it.


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## -Peter (Feb 6, 2011)

Corporal punishment made me harder. It made me less likely to get caught. It made me more violent by giving me the belief that the way to reverse wrong was through acts of violent retribution.
Thats what you get, you want that coming round your house at 3 in the morning.
Phil, you didn't turn out fine. You just wrote you want to see other people hurt their children.


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 6, 2011)

I understand where your coming from Peter I'm exactly the same.
I have used smacking on my daughter who is 5. One day I asked her to do her room, she said straight up NO. I turned around said Brandi youv'e made the mess I'm telling you to clean it up if I come in and you haven't started you will be smacked. I gave her 5 minutes and returned, no progress. I said Brandi why won't you do as your told would you rather be smacked or tidy your room, I WANT A SMACK, was the answer, so I gave her a few decent ones, enough to sting my hand a bit, and she just bit her bottom lip and glared in defiance even managing to hold back the tears. I had to leave the room so she couldn't see me smile and I was actually a little proud of her. I smack a lot less now but sometimes it's still affective..

I used to play up for my mother and if she was at the end of her tether she would always use the wait till your father got home line. This would only make me worse because I then knew what I had coming, and my Father often crossed the line between discipline and physical assault.


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## waruikazi (Feb 6, 2011)

Violence breeds violence, it is as simple as that. If the people children look upto (teachers, parents, friends, governments or police) use violence to solve problems then they will grow up doing the same.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the majority of kids who are out causing trouble are not doing it because they were never smacked, it is because they have an innapropriate amount of or no boundaries in their home life.


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 6, 2011)

I had plenty of boundaries, it was a challenge crossing them.


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## waruikazi (Feb 6, 2011)

steve1 said:


> I understand where your coming from Peter I'm exactly the same.
> I have used smacking on my daughter who is 5. One day I asked her to do her room, she said straight up NO. I turned around said Brandi youv'e made the mess I'm telling you to clean it up if I come in and you haven't started you will be smacked. I gave her 5 minutes and returned, no progress. I said Brandi why won't you do as your told would you rather be smacked or tidy your room, I WANT A SMACK, was the answer, so I gave her a few decent ones, enough to sting my hand a bit, and she just bit her bottom lip and glared in defiance even managing to hold back the tears. I had to leave the room so she couldn't see me smile and I was actually a little proud of her. I smack a lot less now but sometimes it's still affective..
> 
> I used to play up for my mother and if she was at the end of her tether she would always use the wait till your father got home line. This would only make me worse because I then knew what I had coming, and my Father often crossed the line between discipline and physical assault.


 
Steve try giving her a choice when she is being defiant. For example, say to her, 'Brandi, you can clean your room now or you can clean it while Hi5 is on.' Both choices will acheive what you want her to do but it will give her ownership of her behviour. It may not work for you straight away because her defiance has already escalated but keep at it and it will work.



steve1 said:


> I had plenty of boundaries, it was a challenge crossing them.



And all kids will have ago at crossing them, if the boundary (set by whoever school, home, police) is logical and the crossing of it has an appropriate repercussion that is enforced, they'll do it a few times and work out they can't get away with it and stop.


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes it does work and I use that method among many others, however I still believe that physical punishment has a place and I don't believe that if done in a controlled manner it is violence, by that I mean physical punishment should never be done out of anger. In saying that I will never agree to the cane because I will decide if and when my child recieves thaty type of punishment, nobody else.


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## waruikazi (Feb 6, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Yes it does work and I use that method among many others, however I still believe that physical punishment has a place and I don't believe that if done in a controlled manner it is violence, by that I mean physical punishment should never be done out of anger. In saying that I will never agree to the cane because I will decide if and when my child recieves thaty type of punishment, nobody else.



I agree absolutely and i think your response compliments my comment. If a smack is an appropriate outcome of a childs behaviour then it should be considered. AND only should be done by parents!


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## cement (Feb 6, 2011)

Really want an answer?

World Transformation Movement (formerly Foundation for Humanity's Adulthood)


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## Reffy (Feb 6, 2011)

I agree Guzzo it's come to the point i don't walk anywhere once it hits 6, i almost never catch a bus cause i have nearly not gotten out of couple sticky situation... Casuarina security is a joke and police are just the same!!!


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## Jeannine (Feb 6, 2011)

_but sometimes its hard to treat them equally. Usually they come from the worst backgrounds you could think of
_*whatever your background is NO excuse

im fed up with hearing them try to use a 'hard life' as an excuse for their actions

'aww my parents hit me'

'aww i was abused'

'i was on drugs,drunk at the time'

lots of us had hard lives and bad backgrounds and didnt turn out bad and if you were on drugs at the time it should be INSTANT jail as they are illegal

a pathetic excuse and its time the courts said 'bad luck'

they still have the same choices as you and me 'YES or NO' but they CHOSE their own pathways*


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## waruikazi (Feb 6, 2011)

Everyone who is calling for harsher penalties for offenders what are you more interested in, rehabilitation or retribution?


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## Snakewoman (Feb 6, 2011)

I agree that a person's background isn't an excuse, but I believe it's very important to know about it, I have 3 different mental disorders, and that's taught me to look into things deeper, not to judge a person just by what I see on the outside. If you want to rehabilitate people, you need to know about their life and what has happened to them to understand why they are the way they are, and again, I'll say their background isn't an excuse for what they do, but it is the reason for it. That being said there are a few people who came from a good family and still end up doing bad things, I'm curious as to why, there has to be some reason.

I also agree that the parents are the only ones who should be giving physical punishment to their children. My grandmother didn't like it very much when a teacher bounced her son off a wall for not having his PE uniform... she bounced the teacher off a wall and asked him how HE liked it :lol: as long as the parents aren't being over the top with their smacking it should be fine. My half brother's father was too heavy handed and didn't realise it. My mother could give a good swipe too, she's small but no weakling. I remember one day when I got smacked and made the mistake of saying it didn't hurt :shock: I never made that mistake again!


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## bucket (Feb 6, 2011)

these days the government gives you around 6 grand to have a child but not 6 grand to teacher your child how to behave, act, respect your elders.
Any fool can have a child but ownly a man can be a father.


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## moosenoose (Feb 6, 2011)

I used to get the cane on a regular basis........and I'm a (twitch, twitch) well adjusted human being.......with a short fuse and anger management issues   ...cross my path and won't hesitate in beating you to a pulp!  ......8).....I mean.....


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## MissVampz (Feb 6, 2011)

It shouldn't be teachers jobs to discipline kids, it's up to the parents. People wonder why I don't want kids!! There's no respect for anyone, including themselves. Kids are committing crimes at younger ages and parents and the law courts are letting them get away with it. We're far too lenient. My bro and his fiancee's excuse is they can't be bothered


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## moosenoose (Feb 6, 2011)

Hence why I'm getting a gun license :lol:


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## guzzo (Feb 6, 2011)

Well if the no hope parents are letting their kids run wild and refuse to discipline them or are unable to discipline them (for whatever reason).....and their kids are preying on society and spreading fear amongst the good people ......then i feel it is up to society to take over and remove that neglected right of their parents (or should i say obligation) and teach them respect. and if force and violence is the only thing they will respect then so be it. These ratbags are running free and wild in our town while good people are too afraid to go out......and that IMO is just wrong


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## Tikanderoga (Feb 7, 2011)

Leeloofluff said:


> I would want to bring back conscription


I don't think that would help. Switzerland has conscription - and you end up with a bunch of 18 - 20 year old, that don't want to be there, and do anything to get out of it - and they succeed:
-> My religion forbids me to bear arms. (but bashing ppl is fine)
-> I can't shoot at a humanoid shaped target (but torturing rabbits is ok)
-> I have an issue with authority (bring back the cane)
And so on - I've seen it all - I've done conscription -> doesn't change anything in a juvie's behaviour. 



Jannico said:


> Bring back the cain.
> My Mom and Dad used to belt me, never too much though just enough to think twice about being a smart****.
> Now you can't even do that.


I used to get my bottom whooped with the wooden spoon when I screwed up big time. Ok, I wasn't sitting for an hour or two, cried like there is no tomorrow, but I think, I turned out alright enough not torture animals, beat up people or do other stupidities one reads in the newspaper.

Bring back the cane or even the good old public flogging. 10 or 20 lashes in public sure would be deterrent enough to either not to get caught, and if... well... you know what awaits.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 7, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> Hence why I'm getting a gun license :lol:


 
That attitude is why I hope you don't get one.
Guns are not for self defense, they are for putting delicious animals in your belly.


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## moosenoose (Feb 7, 2011)

Hooglabah said:


> That attitude is why I hope you don't get one.
> Guns are not for self defense, they are for putting delicious animals in your belly.


 Oh I'll be getting one alright, and it'll help me change your opinion 



guzzo said:


> Well if the no hope parents are letting their kids run wild and refuse to discipline them or are unable to discipline them (for whatever reason).....and their kids are preying on society and spreading fear amongst the good people ......then i feel it is up to society to take over and remove that neglected right of their parents (or should i say obligation) and teach them respect. and if force and violence is the only thing they will respect then so be it. These ratbags are running free and wild in our town while good people are too afraid to go out......and that IMO is just wrong



Couldn't agree more.


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## Hooglabah (Feb 7, 2011)

Really? I dunno having my own rifles hasn't made me feel any safer in my own home. They have help to make me feel less bored (trips to the range) and full (trips to the bush), but never safer, what makes me feel safe is the police station 2 minutes drive from my house.

Last thing shooters need is some fool killing sombody with a legally owned gun.
Do you wanna be known as the guy who got firearm ownership banned in Australia?


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## FAY (Feb 7, 2011)

The baby bonus has a lot to answer for. Just encourages the scummiest ones to breed so they can get a windfall to feed their addiction, be it alcohol, drugs etc

I was also watching a doco about some of the worst killers in Australia. Seems they had a very violent father and the mother couldn't care less what the kids did. So, the mixed messages that the kids were getting seemed to send them down the wrong path. No excuse though, everyone has a choice in life.


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## redbellybite (Feb 7, 2011)

PEOPLE get two words CONFUSED ......SMACKING(1) - is just that a smack or two across the bum is a form of punishment that fits the situation of the moment .. It is very acceptable and does work ...
what doesnt work and will NEVER be tolerated is BASHING(2) ..so flogging ,bashing etc using major force on your child/children for punishment isnt right and THAT is when the law should step in to save the child ..in extreme cases ..
not because mum or dad gave Johnny a SMACK on the bum because he wasnt doing the right thing at home or where ever ..

You know there are PARENTS out there that may never smack their child ,but abuse comes in many a form ..ignoring your childs emotional needs and displaying an act of not ever caring ,giving into tantrums because the parent doesnt want a scene..and BUYING material things because of guilt IS FAR WORSE ABUSE and causes ADULT problems in life then any little smack on the bum ever did ...

EMOTIONAL ABUSE IS A SILENT ONE ..GENERAL PUBLIC NEVER GET TO SEE ....UNTILL HE /SHE GOES TO SCHOOL AND BLOWS AWAY THEIR PEERS AND THEN THEMSELVES ...OR TURN INTO DRUG DEPENDENT JUNKIES WHO SELL THEIR ARZES TO GET A FIX OR COMMIT CRIME TO GET IT ...these bruises wont show up till it is way to late ...so just because you dont believe in physical punishment ,it doesnt mean the non hands on way is any better .... Kids need to know that you give a damn about them and just because you dont like them today ,because of their behaviour,doesnt ever mean you stop loving them ..


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## moosenoose (Feb 7, 2011)

Hooglabah said:


> Last thing shooters need is some fool killing sombody with a legally owned gun.
> Do you wanna be known as the guy who got firearm ownership banned in Australia?



Yeah of course. I got to be known for something


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## Hooglabah (Feb 7, 2011)

[email protected] moose

Could get known a the first guy to get stabbed to death by a group of angry gun nuts, lol!


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## moosenoose (Feb 7, 2011)

lol Yes! Then you guys will get in strife with the Butchers Federation in getting knives banned


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## Hooglabah (Feb 7, 2011)

Will the cycle never end!!!!!


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## Flanders199 (Feb 7, 2011)

Gibblore said:


> I agree flog the living christ out of them, If they dont comply shoot them!!



LOL....I went to one of the last schools in adelaide with the cane and i tell you what i soon learnt all about punishment and to this day i still fear the cane haha


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## moosenoose (Feb 7, 2011)

I had a cane break on me once. A pretty hard task considering the evil mongrels kept it in a tall jug of water behind the head principals door :lol:

They had another less painful disciplinery tool at their disposal called "the strap". The trouble is with that is you used to leave the prinipals office more in giggles than in tears.....that thing was useless!


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## Jeannine (Feb 7, 2011)

*i read with interest that the government wants to make parents responsible for the actions of their child/ren

my first thought was no way, what if the parent has genuinely tried their best but just has a feral child, then i thought well maybe give it a go and see what happens

someone said children had no respect for themselves let alone anyone else and i agree with that, they also have this belief that the world owes 'THEM', owes them what exactly?and the absolute filth that comes out of their mouths some days has me itching to wash it out with soap

they have life to easy these days and they know it, they also know that the law is an *** and they just laugh at it, these days having a 'rap sheet' is a status symbol to most of them

and for some of the most horrendous of crimes should be an instant jail term and im talking about things like robbing, attacking, bashing up the elderly, these people deserve to be treated with respect and if a feral teenager wont give it to them then slap them in jail as they dont deserve to roam free in society *

*drug related = 5 years BEFORE they get sentenced for their crime
alcohol related = as above
any violent act on the elderly = 10 years BEFORE they get sentenced for their 
crime*

*vandalism = made to work till they pay it off, preferably on a chain gang and cleaning the streets if needed*


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## waruikazi (Feb 7, 2011)

*Thank god you have absolutely no authority! *

I would be in jail for atleast 15 years under your regime and i recon most of Australia would be too lol!



Jeannine said:


> *i read with interest that the government wants to make parents responsible for the actions of their child/ren
> 
> my first thought was no way, what if the parent has genuinely tried their best but just has a feral child, then i thought well maybe give it a go and see what happens
> 
> ...


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## guzzo (Feb 7, 2011)

My friend has a house in Palmerston (outskirts of Darwin) he was sick of getting broken into and his hard earned stuff stolen. 

He works some nights and is worried for his wife and kids at home alone esp with some of the recent goings on. 

He now has a surrounding 6 foot fence with with razor wire on top he also has two dogs that roam the place. 

Just so he can have peace of mind and his family can feel safe.

I suppose in effect it is kind of like his family is in jail..... 

I am sure there would be many other stories like this. Esp old people who live in fear as easy victims...prisoners in their own homes. 

I hear some people have stopped using their aircon at night so they can hear if someone is around.....sad state of affairs


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## moosenoose (Feb 7, 2011)

I hear bear traps are easy to set


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## Snakewoman (Feb 7, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> I hear bear traps are easy to set



Oh SNAP! :lol:


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## REPTILIAN-KMAN (Feb 7, 2011)

bring back the cane - i got the cane once when i was a kid after that it was outlawed pitty that some of my teachers at school would have loved to belt me !!! 
i was told by a fellow student before i received the cane to wash my hands under cold water for 10 mins ( making my hand numb ) !!
it didnt work i i got 6 canings on each hand !! 

years later i was busted with Hydrocycline trying to blow up the school toilets. but wsa busted by the head science teacher mixing the chemicals !!!


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## guzzo (Feb 7, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> I hear bear traps are easy to set



HAHA Charles BRONSON had some good ideas too in his Death Wish movies. haha.....


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## snakes123 (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm 14 and I do get introuble but I don't understand how teenagers Gould burn down a house killing two people. If I ever did that (not that I would even think about doing such a thing) I would want to be sent to jail fir the rest if my life.

You see on the news everyweek a youth has done something like stabbing, arson etc and all that they get is 1 year in jail. I think that we should be under the same laws and sentences or what ever it is as adults are.

We are old enough to know what we are doing and that burning down someones house is completely wrong. But I think people that do these kind of things have something very wrong in their lives and we need to help them. I know punishment dosent work for me but who knows a 30 year jail sentence might help them. So yeah I think we should be put onto that same laws or what ever it is as adults are on.

Ben


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## geckos_are_great (Feb 7, 2011)

it seems that the first post is putting most teens into the fact that if they walk around at night as a groupe there looking to make trouble... and that just not true me and my mates walk around in a groupe at like 2am somtimes and were not out to make trouble of hurt anybody.... maybe alittle mischeif here and there but nothing that could hurt anyone.... so maybe you shouldnt just asume that all teens that walk around in goupes at night are out to cause trouble and hurt people..

just my two cents,....


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## Hooglabah (Feb 7, 2011)

Just had a great idea if my kid ever get into trouble at school for bullying...
Public apology, written by the victim, read at school assembly.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Feb 7, 2011)

Hooglabah said:


> what makes me feel safe is the police station 2 minutes drive from my house.



Police these days do sweet FA. I was actually inside a police station once and listened to a call for help over the radio...the fuel station attendant was bailed up inside the toilets as there were 5 young thugs waiting outside that wanted to beat the crap out of him "5 against 1". The cops just laughed amongst one another and said 'Nahhhh, can't be bothered' let someone else get it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the fuel station was literally around the corner and the cops were doing nothing except sitting around and drinking coffee. From that day on, I've lost all respect and trust for the police!


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 7, 2011)

People are tarring all kids with the same brush "Teenagers have no respect for themselves" What? By making this statement you have disrespected every teenager that puts their head down and does his darn well best to be a good member of society. How do you expect respect if you don't give it yourself, respect is learned and earned if someone lacks respect chances are they haven't been taught it. And if you think that your age grants you the right to respect think again!


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## guzzo (Feb 7, 2011)

geckos_are_great said:


> it seems that the first post is putting most teens into the fact that if they walk around at night as a groupe there looking to make trouble... and that just not true me and my mates walk around in a groupe at like 2am somtimes and were not out to make trouble of hurt anybody.... maybe alittle mischeif here and there but nothing that could hurt anyone.... so maybe you shouldnt just asume that all teens that walk around in goupes at night are out to cause trouble and hurt people..
> 
> just my two cents,....


 
I realise not all teens who walk around at night in groups are bad or up to no good......... but the ones who do and don't respect others and cause hardship must pay....no excuses or pity....anyone who gets past my dogs and breaks into my house and places my family in danger will receive no quarter from me. 

A while ago a youth in Darwin flogged up and robbed a taxi driver .........not long after he was drunk and fell asleep on a road and was run over and killed by a taxi..........is that karma???


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## Australis (Feb 7, 2011)

While were bring back the Cane, ill assume we can bring back some good old fashion wife beating, women are just so rude these days or something


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## carterd (Feb 7, 2011)

I asked a Kung Fu Master a question, you can discipline your children, but how do you teach them to be self disciplined? You can guess the answer (send them to King Fu school!). As for the cane, it depends on the attitude of the person weilding it. Children need boundaries and disciplined parents to dish out the punishment. It gives children security when boundaries are enforced. We as humans are designed that we have to be self disciplined, without it we would be hopeless juveniles. So if we can't be self disciplined, we get disciplined with the cane. I read once that as a child up until the age of 7-12, the patterns experienced during this time, e.g. alcoholic or abusive parents, stay with the person for life and are very difficult to alter. The enforcer of the discipline needs to have the interests of the child at heart and for the child to understand what they are being disciplined for. At the end of the day, as others have said before, the buck stops with the parent/guardian - they are ultimately responsible.


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## Jeannine (Feb 8, 2011)

*steve i realise not ALL teenagers are the same and happily say i have come across many 'young kids' here in Broken Hill who are very polite and respectful and i have no problems giving them that same respect back

but if a teenager near me lets off a mouthful of obscenity you can bet all he will get from me is a filthy glare and a mouthful of the same but under my breath and not one ounce of respect 

sorry geckos_are_great but if your roaming the streets at 2am in the morning then you are looking to get up to something, whether or not you hurt anyone is a matter of exactly what your up to, your not being a group of angels and IMO there is NO need for you and your mates to be out at that time of the morning, why arent you home in bed and do your parents know your wandering the streets looking for mischief? and exactly what kind of 'mischief' are you and your mates up to?*


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## SYNeR (Feb 8, 2011)

There are many psychology studies showing that physical punishment is detrimental to the mental health and well being of children.

In addition, to all the people saying 'things are so bad now', that is incorrect. If you look at mortality and crime rates generally, we're at the lowest we've ever been in history (inclusive of statistics from World War II).

I will dig up some references later.



FAY said:


> I was also watching a doco about some of the worst killers in Australia. Seems they had a very violent father and the mother couldn't care less what the kids did. So, the mixed messages that the kids were getting seemed to send them down the wrong path. No excuse though, everyone has a choice in life.


 
True to a certain degree, yes. Our justice system protects those whose crime is related to mental illness and where the perpetrator has no motivation or intention..


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## waruikazi (Feb 8, 2011)

Jeannine said:


> sorry *geckos_are_great* but if your roaming the streets at 2am in the morning then you are looking to get up to something, whether or not you hurt anyone is a matter of exactly what your up to, your not being a group of angels and IMO there is NO need for you and your mates to be out at that time of the morning, why arent you home in bed and do your parents know your wandering the streets looking for mischief? and exactly what kind of 'mischief' are you and your mates up to?



Have you considered that the streets may be safer than the kids home envorionment?


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## moosenoose (Feb 8, 2011)

Jungleman said:


> Police these days do sweet FA. I was actually inside a police station once and listened to a call for help over the radio...the fuel station attendant was bailed up inside the toilets as there were 5 young thugs waiting outside that wanted to beat the crap out of him "5 against 1". The cops just laughed amongst one another and said 'Nahhhh, can't be bothered' let someone else get it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing, the fuel station was literally around the corner and the cops were doing nothing except sitting around and drinking coffee. From that day on, I've lost all respect and trust for the police!



I agree. I’ve heard the cops say the same thing. We were having break-ins all the time in our drive-way and the cops said “we’ve got one car available, what do you want us to do about it??” the word “policing” came to mind but I guess that’s not their job? :lol: I thought like suggesting taking finger-prints for starters??..... you know, in case one day this century they actually catch one of these idiots and are then able to trace them to other crimes?? Just an idea  I’ve got a local police station also, but it doesn’t make me feel any better knowing its there. Perhaps if I could get the lazy donut-eating, coffee-guzzling cops out of their warm, cozy station to attend a bit of an issue I had it may have instilled a bit of confidence? :lol:


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## hornet (Feb 8, 2011)

I havent read the whole thing but one one of the big issues apart from the courts being far too lenient is government handouts. Yes some people do truly need them and deserve them but so many of these juvenile delinquents are getting a free ride off the tax payers and are repaying us with bashings, rapes, burglaries etc. There is a "gang" of local teens in my area who bludge off center link and have been responsible for a huge amount of vandalism in the area as well as a number of bashings. One in particular was a guy i used to work with, he was walking through a park they were drinking in on a thursday night and got jumped by 6 or 7 of them. The government needs to stop giving these animals handouts and needs to actually start taking action with harsh penalties on juvenile offenders


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## slim6y (Feb 8, 2011)

Hornet - I agree...

I am always reminded of the email that's from the guy who drives trucks at a mine and he gets drug tested regularly to make sure he is doing the right thing. His argument was - if he was to be fired for taking drugs, then he'd have to get the dole, and there's no drug testing for that... So maybe there should be.

We as a human race have lost that 'community' spirit. We don't have it with our 8am - 7pm busy lifestyles. 

I don't even earn that much (still above the average) and I sometimes stay at work till 10pm or later depending on what I am doing. My daughter has to say goodnight to me at 3pm when she leaves school - but I can't do anything about it... 

But conversely I am a strong family orientated person - and I find the family is the strongest unit when it works well. 

I hope my daughter never commits a serious crime - statistically she's not likely to - I teach her the good things to do and I have a strong organisation of boundaries to give her. 

If only a few others did the same...


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## AllThingsReptile (Feb 8, 2011)

guzzo said:


> I wish it would be brought back as it is obvious that so many juveniles are receiving no discipline at home.
> Maybe the cane would make a difference at an early age as there is no respect for the law these days.



bosses should also be allowed to bash their employees for being late, etc
cops should be allowed to tazer randoms off the street
no, child abuse should not be allowed, especially at school

and you answered your own question, you said that these "youths" are recieving no discipline at home, well maybe thats what you need to fix, if you care so much

oh and another thing, don't you think that the cops will just blame "youths" for all this, is there evidence? witnesses? how do you KNOW that ALL of these crimes were comitted by youths?

also, what are "youths" in you guy's eyes, because anyone over 18 isnt really a youth, legally they are an adult....


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## guzzo (Feb 8, 2011)

lizardboii said:


> bosses should also be allowed to bash their employees for being late, etc
> cops should be allowed to tazer randoms off the street
> no, child abuse should not be allowed, especially at school
> 
> ...



Ask the father who was holding his baby while he was stabbed 10 times by a juvenile in his own house what evidence he has......only to see the courts give a 1 year sentence and the offender not to be named because he was a JUVENILE - in case you are not sure what this means ....he was under 18 years old.... The cops did not let this trash off lightly it was the courts. Lizadboii perhaps you are one who likes to make excuses for this kind of behaviour or pretend it does not happen


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## AllThingsReptile (Feb 10, 2011)

guzzo said:


> Ask the father who was holding his baby while he was stabbed 10 times by a juvenile in his own house what evidence he has......only to see the courts give a 1 year sentence and the offender not to be named because he was a JUVENILE - in case you are not sure what this means ....he was under 18 years old.... The cops did not let this trash off lightly it was the courts. Lizadboii perhaps you are one who likes to make excuses for this kind of behaviour or pretend it does not happen


 i do not pretend it does happen, nor try to make excuses, the teens you stabbed you definatly deserved more than what they got, im just saying that, surely every crime committed by "youths" wasnt, people are quick to stereotype people these days, me and 1 or 2 mates sneak out, we walk the streets, but we dont do anything, bar one mate who is on a good behaviour bond for several accounts of graffiti and vandalism, but we dont do anything, maybe call out for a hoon to do a burnout, things like that, but we dont cause physical harm to anyone, like the youths you mentioned, someone would have to be pretty messed up to stab you 10 times, especially if they didnt know you, you were just targetted, that is wrong, and the little s*&ts should get a full sentence, not 1 yr in juvi


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## guzzo (Feb 10, 2011)

Not every kid who goes out at night is up to no good that is for sure. But unfortunately there are a lot who are....and these kids when they bump into the good kids usually make them victims too. Anyhow there has been some very good points on here both for and against strict punnishment......I suppose it is an issue without a soloution.


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## lizardman59 (Feb 12, 2011)

i dont think they need to bring back the cain i think the chares should be alot worse these days if someone breaks into your house if you hit them to defend yourself you can get sewed and go to jail and i just think its a big load of bull


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## Jungle_Fever1 (Feb 13, 2011)

forget the cane, get a piece of 4 by 2 timber, little kids these days have a mouth and a half on them,


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## chase77 (Feb 13, 2011)

*why not*

For those that say the cane is child abuse, its that kind of soft approach that has cause society to brake down to its current state. Children dont fear or respect authority so they do what they want. civil libertarians need to be shot. 

you see it all the time, 'i dont like living at home so i'll just move out' and the parent has no recourse.

i dont believe that children should be belted stupid, but a certain amount of physical punishment is ok. give power back to parents and teachers and toughen the courts up and we may be able to get things going the right way. 

is it going to happen? of course not.


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## waruikazi (Feb 14, 2011)

chase77 said:


> i dont believe that children should be belted stupid, but a certain amount of physical punishment is ok. give power back to parents and teachers and toughen the courts up and we may be able to get things going the right way.



Why the hell is it a teachers responsibility? It's my job to teach kids the curriculum, not discipline them!


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## Markus (Feb 14, 2011)

guzzo said:


> [When i went to school there was the cane....it was feared and respected and though i was on the receiving end many a time I feel it did me no illFONT]
> 
> Too many soft people who keep making excuses for young scum who will inevitably grow to be major criminals.....
> 
> ...


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## nathancl (Feb 14, 2011)

wow! lots of sadistic people! If physical punishment was appropriate for some children and teens then it is definitly appropriate for some adults. 

Im respectful and well behaved most of the time but as an example, i live in an apartment building and often have people over. whilst i have friends over we might have a few drinks and play a bit of music but its not as though the music is overly loud but when there is a few of us the noise level obviously increases. i recently had a neighbour from downstairs come and bash on my door at 7.30 pm (just on dusk) she was a middle aged woman who decided that she would come and abuse me for the amount of noise that was coming from my place. she was completely immature about the whole thing making silly acusations and carrying on like a 2 year old. if i were her i would have knocked on the door with a normal force so that i didnt almost break the door down and i would have explained that the noise was travelling and i was trying to sleep etc... in those circumstances i was more than happy to be "disrespectful" to my elders and tell her to .... off. this doesnt make me a bad person but just gives and example of a situation were sometimes the "youths" arent bad people they just dont tolerate rediculous behaviour from someone who is older than them and should assumingly know better.

If by not respecting elders and having a mouth means that things have gone down hill in society I would suggest that the older generation here who are making out like this behaviour is heinus are weak people who are ageist and are probably the children that were brought up with physical dicipline. sometimes there are adults that need to be shut down and put back in their box and i think that age has nothing to do with it! if your a fool i will tell you so, if your older than me you are just as likely to cop the mouth full that a person who is younger than me would if they were behaving the same way. 

obviously not all teens are angels but i dont think the focus should be solely on youths in this respect because just as many (if not more!) adults are just as bad as some of the criminals that are being mentioned. people who are ageist are as bad as those that are sexist, racist etc.


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## chase77 (Feb 14, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Why the hell is it a teachers responsibility? It's my job to teach kids the curriculum, not discipline them!



So how do you teach effectively when you have kids that just want to muck up? How about the other kids in the class that are missing out on valuable learning time because of these kids? If you had the authority to dicipline (along with parents doing their job), you may have a more productive learning space.


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## snakeguy (Feb 14, 2011)

maybe a boot to the ares wile you are young is the way to go? bottom line is that its up to the parents to teach the kids from right and wrong from when they are young and maybe if you cant do that...... well then maybe you should't think about having them. iam 18 now and have just gotten out of school and sure i have played up in the younger grade but as soon as it was time to leave and the teacher come out to the car to "have a talk to mum"...... well i wasnt going to do it again thats for sure.


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## guzzo (Feb 14, 2011)

There has been some good points, and I suppose I have to agree it should not be the teachers responsibility to bring discipline to the trouble causing juveniles that plague our streets....I feel scociety has the obligation to deliver discipline to those that dwell amongst us and have strayed from the path of respecting your fellow man.....I sound like some crazy preacher. I think it is just a case of the good old too hard basket.


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## waruikazi (Feb 15, 2011)

chase77 said:


> So how do you teach effectively when you have kids that just want to muck up? How about the other kids in the class that are missing out on valuable learning time because of these kids? If you had the authority to dicipline (along with parents doing their job), you may have a more productive learning space.



You can't. The same as if you are spending your entire day discipling kids, you can't teach. 

I very rarely have to 'discipline' my students. My school and classroom has an environment and behaviour management policy that, except in rare circumstances, doesn't need discipline. If anyone wants to see my classroom managment plan i'm more than happy to make it public.


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## Constantine200 (Feb 15, 2011)

The police do their job, but the courts let them and the public down by slapping these criminals with light sentences letting them loose on the streets in a matter of days to continue their crime spree knowing they will only get a rap on the knuckles, but next time it may be you or i that pays the ultimate price.


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## moosenoose (Feb 15, 2011)

I think if you discipline a child early enough you don't get the bad habits developing. I smacked my kids when they were young, now they are older I thankfully don't have to. Kids that are "allowed" to run amok when they are young are harder to control when they are older; hence having society attempt to do the parenting for them (quite frankly the horse has bolted imho!). THEN, there are some kids who no matter what parents do or say are uncontrollable (they either end up in jail or extremely rich! :lol.

I think if a child hasn't learnt to respect a form of authority, no matter if its the cops, a teacher or any other number of authoritarian figures, then discipline is always the end result of a failure to comply. How much better would it be if the courts dished out corporal punishment???? (again like Capital punishment you don't want any mistakes with sentencing, and we know mistakes can & do happen) How can you fine half the idiots out there when they have no money to cough up?? (the solution: rob someones house, and assault him/her if they happen to stumble across you doing it because heaven forbid you have to pay another fine!!) Personally we're a soft society! People are allowed to get away with murder! No respect.


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## guzzo (Feb 16, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> I think if you discipline a child early enough you don't get the bad habits developing. I smacked my kids when they were young, now they are older I thankfully don't have to. Kids that are "allowed" to run amok when they are young are harder to control when they are older; hence having society attempt to do the parenting for them (quite frankly the horse has bolted imho!). THEN, there are some kids who no matter what parents do or say are uncontrollable (they either end up in jail or extremely rich! :lol.
> 
> I think if a child hasn't learnt to respect a form of authority, no matter if its the cops, a teacher or any other number of authoritarian figures, then discipline is always the end result of a failure to comply. How much better would it be if the courts dished out corporal punishment???? (again like Capital punishment you don't want any mistakes with sentencing, and we know mistakes can & do happen) How can you fine half the idiots out there when they have no money to cough up?? (the solution: rob someones house, and assault him/her if they happen to stumble across you doing it because heaven forbid you have to pay another fine!!) Personally we're a soft society! People are allowed to get away with murder! No respect.


 
True ,I agree


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## ezekiel86 (Feb 16, 2011)

12 Gauge


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## ashisnothereman (Feb 16, 2011)

oooft if someone hit me with a stick at school i most likely wouldve skipped out on all that and loiter the streets.


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## guzzo (Feb 16, 2011)

When I was naughty at school I got hit with the stick....but I was too scared to skip school because of what I would cop at home if parents found out. i suppose if there is no control at home people would just not go to school. perhaps Singapore has the right idea in the end.


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## Wookie (Feb 18, 2011)

Reptilerookie321 said:


> there is a different way and a much better way of disciplining and punishing kids, it is not physical abuse.


 
Thats the problem. All power is taken away. Nobody has the right to discipline people. I mean, ****, even criminals are coddled because of all this soft stuff. Whats this better way you speak of? If I did something wrong I got hit. And you know what, I thought f, I'm not doing that again. I'm not saying everybody beat your kids, but man, show some backbone. It is important that kids are disciplined, the quality of kids is declining rapidly. No joke. Just in the past five years, huge difference in attitude and behaviour. Teachers aren't allowed to discipline students. They cant break up fights between students without looking at assault charges. To me that is BS. 

Something needs to change. Parents get in trouble for hitting their OWN kids. How is that right? People overseas get put to death for things more minor that our people get a slap on the wrist for.



equinny said:


> If the cane was brought back into schools... the delinquent kids wouldn't bother even going (if they don't already).
> 
> There is always a reason kids like that are the way they are, they wouldn't do it for nothing. Physical punishment wouldn't help the cause in any way, it'd probably do more harm than good in the long run.


 
Disagree completely. If they behave that way why should their education be paid for while they corrupt, assault and hinder the education of others, willing to cooperate and behave? Why are we forcing them into school? If they aren't willing to follow the rules, good riddance. The sooner they are of no burden the better. Maybe then they might mature. 

Nobody likes getting hit. Bit of negative reinforcement never goes astray. 

I agree with the tougher sentences, you are spot on with that.



Fuscus said:


> A simplistic solution for a complex problem.
> Does the threat of cancer stop people smoking?
> Does the obvious health problem prevent people from eating a McDonalds?
> Does the near certain promise of severe injury stop people racing motorbikes?


 
Bar the last one, they are long term things. Not an instant punishment for a misdoing. They are also all things that harm the individual. Not so much anybody else (smoking harms others as well, so inconsiderate to smoke near people)



grimbeny said:


> In the last 50yrs we have seem some of the most important people empowering changes and I expect the future has more install.


 
But you need balance. Empowering the individual takes power away from the whole.



cement said:


> The problem with today is that there are so many damn bleeding hearts, it has produced a nation of weak, self absorbed losers who won't do anything to improve their lot, expecting the free ride that our stupid government gives them. These people smoke, drink and breed and then expect someone else to bring up their lost kid.
> 
> We have an impotent legal system that puts more strain on the country and does nothing for victims of crime. I live and let live but if some juvie delinquent thinks he can put one over me, the cops won't even get a call. I don't give a rats if he's come from a broken home or not.


 
A+++

We have taken away the power of the people who are supposed to protect society, the police. If they so much as raise a hand they are condemned to investigations and what. Now they are afraid to do their job. If a drunk teen hits a bouncer or an officer of the law I believe they should be able to give it back and then some. Often the retaliator of violence cops as much penalty as the initiator, that is not right!



Geckoman said:


> What makes you think kids that are disciplined harshly dont run off and turn to the street life because they cant handle the strict environment?
> Plenty of kids end up on the street because their parents punish to the point of abuse, that is one of the reasons why society has turned against corporal punishment.
> There are other ways to keep your kids inline and they are proven to be just as if not more effective


 
No! Talking solves nothing at the age where they need to be taught what they can and can't get away with. Disciplining needs to be done harshly! If the kid is raised right then they'd never run away because they'd understand they were only punished for their own misdeed.



Wally76 said:


> Just what our armed services need, dysfunctional youths with anger issues.


 
With a bunch of peers who will keep them in line, yes. If they don't get in trouble for keeping them in line LOL.



Plimpy said:


> Flogging wouldn't work.
> I'm not saying this is bad, but when I was 9, my teacher used to grab my collar, push me against the wall, and yell at me, for calling out/talking in class... which I did a lot.
> I kept doing it, it did nothing.
> I did it until last year, when I got into keeping frogs.


 
You're twelve. You don't know what has or hasn't worked yet



pythrulz said:


> While junenile crime is as mentioned out of control parents and the way kids are bought up have a lot to do with it In america they have a program in some prisons that repeat offenders are taken to the jails there and spoken to some of the long term crimms and told exactly what life there is like every person has the choice to be a good person or not


 
Thats another problem too. Prison isn't prison anymore. Tvs, good food, comfy beds, clean clothes, education. This isn't punishment. If somebody wants a free ride they can just commit a crime and go there. They get a good run, and costs them nothing... The tax payer on the other hand (which these people generally aren't BTW because centrelink will give money to anybody) Make prison hard again, do the crime and do the time. And make the time as unenjoyable as possible to stop them ending up there again


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