# Rules of show and tell???



## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Is there some rule that u need to do to take a snake in for my brother for his show and tell ?


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## hrafna (Feb 14, 2012)

don't flash minors!



sorry but i don't know qld laws but in nsw it is a no-no!


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## Schnecke (Feb 14, 2012)

You need to read through the rules for your state. As far as I am aware - it'll be a NO in each state. Reptiles are not allowed to leave the licence holders property unless having vet treatment, or having been sold.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Tru though it was lol I will let him have his shedding then


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## hrafna (Feb 14, 2012)

my son's daycare had a snake interest corner, so for show and tell he took in a whole bunch of pics a shed skin and an example click clack (with a pic of the snake in said click clack)

and at his last b-day party (3) his friends remembered the whole experience even though it was some time ago, and asked to see the snakes, so i brought some out for them to see (party was at our house) the kids had their pics taken with the snake and now copies of those pics are hanging up at the daycare.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yer that would be a great idear for the younger kids I'll have to remember that for my daughter when she is older but brother is in year 6-7 so I don't think they will like it as much that way lol all ways ask I guess that's for that


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

It's amazing what is 'legal/illegal'... I wouldn't let a kid take the snake in to school for the day but I am *considering* taking my guy into my daughter's year 4 class for a short visit as we live close to the school. It would be strictly a hands off experience but the kids would still love it. I know it is technically against the rules of the permits but I really don't see the harm in a structured brief visit. Too many kids grow up with the 'it's a snake, where's my shovel' attitude. Skye has already taken a 'shed' in to show and I am sure she will want to make a project about Skittles with photos etc to help educate her friends.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Gruni said:


> It's amazing what is 'legal/illegal'... I wouldn't let a kid take the snake in to school for the day but I am *considering* taking my guy into my daughter's year 4 class for a short visit as we live close to the school. It would be strictly a hands off experience but the kids would still love it. I know it is technically against the rules of the permits but I really don't see the harm in a structured brief visit. Too many kids grow up with the 'it's a snake, where's my shovel' attitude. Skye has already taken a 'shed' in to show and I am sure she will want to make a project about Skittles with photos etc to help educate her friends.




Yet that's right I would let him take it in I would meet him in there at 12 or what ever take the click clack and show him no touch just show I dident see the harm in showing your hobbie off to little kids it's not like your passing the snake around the room or anything ...


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

I think you will find the rules are there so they have a blanket ruling as some people may not be as responsible as others and I could just imagine the outcry if some kid got tagged because the snake got startled. 

It's been at least 6 years since a reptile show came to visit my High School and my kids have never had one at their school although the owner of the preschool they went to occasionally brought his Olive in for the kids to see.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

I can not find any where online about not takeing reptiles to school


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

Contact the Dept of Education directly either a district office or the main office in Bris. They will be able to tell you if they have any policy against it. You could do the same with your licensing authority in Qld.


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## eipper (Feb 14, 2012)

It is strictly illegal plain and simple in all states for good reason.

These include that you are not to remove a reptile (or product including a shed skin) from your premises, except in transit for trade or for a vet visit.

This is to help prevent misinformation being spread by people without training or approval from the relevant authority, to assist in preventing profiteering from wildlife and minimize disease tranmission.

In qld education Queensland must in addition approve the demonstrator as well as have copies of working with children approvals, public liability certification etc

Might seem excessive but that is the state of play.

If you are caught doing the wrong thing by bringing a snake to classroom for instance the punishment can be severe including confiscation of the animal(s), fines etc

Cheers
Scott


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for clearing that up Scott.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 14, 2012)

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for taking a pet reptile into a classroom for show and tell?


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## Kyro (Feb 14, 2012)

I think it depends on who you speak to. A couple of years ago when I lived in qld I called the local license department to ask if I could take in a couple of beardies & one adult coastal carpet python to my sons class room & got told as long as it was a quick display it would be fine. I also got approval from the principal before hand & he said it was fine as long as there was no touching involved. My son was in yr 6 at the time & he did a quick speech about keeping reptiles then they had a ten minute question time from the kids. It turned out to be one of the highlights of the year & the kids talked about it for weeks


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

So I guess it's who you talk to ???


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

This was the approach I was going to take Kyro. I know the principal and deputy quite well and was going to talk to them and the classroom teacher to guage interest and to set guidelines for the visit. It is a bit like dirt biking, depending on where you live and how many issues they have had, authorities often turn a blind eye in the presence of common sense; in other areas they will throw the book at you.



Jake007 said:


> So I guess it's who you talk to ???



It would still pay to ask the licensing authority and not just the school Jake.


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## Bel03 (Feb 14, 2012)

eipper said:


> It is strictly illegal plain and simple in all states for good reason.
> These include that you are not to remove a reptile (or product including a shed skin) from your premises, except in transit for trade or for a vet visit.





Ramsayi said:


> Has anyone ever been prosecuted for taking a pet reptile into a classroom for show and tell?



Or a shed skin!! :?


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## Heelssss (Feb 14, 2012)

As a primary teacher myself, I take a diff reptile to class every week. 
What i do is i take Say 'My beardy' there for the whole week. We learn there behaviours, lifecycle etc and i have a a large enclosure with a lock on it so no little fingers get tempted. So if they behave during the day i will give 5 students the last 30mins of the day for a pat and hold session. Its amazing what you can do with bribery to a yr.5 class. ESPECIALLY the boys as they are usually the ones that run amuk in class and lack concentration after lunchtime. I find this method quiet soothing for them as they need to learn to be calm and relaxed to be allowed to hold any of my critters.

AND before anyone jumps the gun, yes i have discussed this with my supervisors & principles. All i had to do was send out a permisission note to the parents. And Ive already got 3 parents applying for reptile licencse as we speak


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## leighroyaus (Feb 14, 2012)

No offence to you fangs. But most teachers are bloody weirdos.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 14, 2012)

leighroyaus said:


> No offence to you fangs. But most teachers are bloody weirdos.



You know most of them do you?


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## Heelssss (Feb 14, 2012)

leighroyaus said:


> No offence to you fangs. But most teachers are bloody weirdos.



What would be so weird about show n tell???


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## Tassie97 (Feb 14, 2012)

:O i did something illegal lol haha only one teacher didnt like my bluey!


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yer I have see people walk down sunnie coast with a snake around his chest neck like *** I'm sure cops saw him dident do anything ...

I would say that it would be down the the person in charge at the school


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## Saxon_Aus (Feb 14, 2012)

leighroyaus said:


> No offence to you fangs. But most teachers are bloody weirdos.



any sentence starting with the phrase "no offence, but" is destined to provide exactly that. What an incredibly helpful, condescending blanket statement you've provided.


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## Tassie97 (Feb 14, 2012)

are u legally allowed to take in your pet rabbit, ginniea pig, puppy or kitten?


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## Mayo (Feb 14, 2012)

Rabbits are illegal in QLD, so the rabbit would be in this case!


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Tassie97 said:


> are u legally allowed to take in your pet rabbit, ginniea pig, puppy or kitten?



That's right that I'd there people's pet and we have snakes an lizards as pets all should be treated the same


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## Mayo (Feb 14, 2012)

Jake Yes it is illegal in QLD, many choose to ignore it. All it takes is one parent to make a complaint and the authorities are required to take it further. If you really want to take the animal to the school then speak to your local EPA officers and they may write you a permission slip to take the animal to the school for a specified period of time. People wondering around the streets etc I to have seen, and yes cops don't have a clue. If someone reports them to the right authorities however they may loose animals, licenses, and be fined.


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## Ramsayi (Feb 14, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> That's right that I'd there people's pet and we have snakes an lizards as pets all should be treated the same



No that's not quite right.Reptiles are held under license and there are conditions attached to keeping them.Rabbits,dogs,cats etc aren't kept under license.


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## Manda1032 (Feb 14, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> I can not find any where online about not takeing reptiles to school



that's because it's against the licensing regulations. reptiles are only allowed to leave the licensed property to go to the vets, are being moved on (with a movement advice) or if you have a permit for display from QPWS. So no, it can't go to your mates house, can't go to the school etc etc etc. this applies for any animals kept on a license. Including hand raised birds ie Eclectus parrots, rosella's etc etc.

And all it would take is one parent to complain and the school's in deep doo doo and so are you! Govt works fast IF they want to and the education dept can make things happen!



Tassie97 said:


> are u legally allowed to take in your pet rabbit, ginniea pig, puppy or kitten?


 you don't require a license to keep these though


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yes ok then I'll do the photo thingy then it's not like I care but it's the fact I wanted to no uer fair enough


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## SamNabz (Feb 14, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> So I guess it's who you talk to ???



No Jake... As Scott (eipper) mentioned, there are rules in place, and for good reason.

It doesn't matter if you talk to the pen pushers at DERM, as they don't know their head from their a.. on a good day...

What happens if the snake bites one of the kids? You say no touching etc. but they are kids and one of them will want to do something that the big adult told them they can't do.. You have no public liability insurance and you're not supposed to have taken it there in the first place.

For the people telling him _it's ok as long as it's quick_ etc. stop supplying false information...if you don't know anything about the subject, don't take a guess and comment..

Also, don't compare them to cats and dogs... It is illegal to take a reptile off the address stated on your licence as per your licensing conditions/agreement - unless visiting a vet...


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## Manda1032 (Feb 14, 2012)

I know it sucks mega noodles! I have a handraised Rosella and I found out the hard way. Its very hard when you have a companion bird that you can't take with you. We only ever went to the pet stores. I know one woman whose ecky is her life. Goes everywhere with her, taking the kids to school and after school sports etc, to weekend picinic's. She does dog shows etc. She ignores the rules and takes her with but all it takes is one person, one complaint. And in this day and age of you tube and recording... bye bye reptiles!


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Ok say u r moveing house Do you have to do a movement advice up for that or do you just ring up and tell them you are moveing (them I mean qld reptile lic people) ???

Btw this is why I ASKED the question first befor finding out the hard way  thank you for ya help .... 


O and shedding is that tru you can't take that to show and tell !?????


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## notechistiger (Feb 14, 2012)

You ring them and supply your new address and they'll mail/e-mail you a new licence with the current address on it.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> You ring them and supply your new address and they'll mail/e-mail you a new licence with the current address on it.



Cheers


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## Kyro (Feb 14, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> No Jake... As Scott (eipper) mentioned, there are rules in place, and for good reason.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you talk to the pen pushers at DERM, as they don't know their head from their a.. on a good day...
> 
> ...




I wasn't taking a guess, I explained to the OP exactly what happened when I contacted the authorities & asked the same question. I'm sorry if that offends you or people with exhibitors licenses, fact of the matter is the snake was at the school for half an hour & we had permission from the relevant people(EPA, parents & the school).


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## Manda1032 (Feb 14, 2012)

yeah diff state tho. QLD is an absolute no go!
As with moving I just fill out a MA and send it with my note. was never told anything different


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## longqi (Feb 14, 2012)

Although Qld can be tough there is one simple way to circumnavigate the rules if the school is close and class small enough
Simply invite them into your back yard

That is perfectly legal so long as zero money changes hands


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## eipper (Feb 14, 2012)

First off I am a demonstrator in qld and have been through the hoops... Some of them are seemingly tedious but that is what the law has in place and you must comply. 

At least in one state there is provision for a person to bring a specimen of wildlife out of the residence, however this still requires written permission prior to the act and the person exhibiting must not charge for the act.

There is also specific legislation in place for school teachers to have wildlife in the classroom.... This varies from state to state and the teacher must speak to the wildlife authority to find out what they can do. Permission from the school means nothing from a wildlife authorities point of view. Until permission from them is obtained then the teacher is operating illegally, risking there own collection and is not covered by insurance. My understanding is this particular permission is NOT hard to obtain.

As for shed skins, they come under the same laws as bird feathers, as they are a product of a protected species they are not to be traded(given away). While I know of no person being charged with this re a snake skin I know of one that was taken to court over a feather from a captive red tailed black cockatoo.

Lastly, the members of this website need to remember that wildlife enforcement officers watch Internet forums. There have been past incidents of people getting visits from authorities over forum posts.

To the op,

ring the head of licensing local to you and ask the question, chances are you will get permission if you ask how to go about it. I would get it in writing though. This will probably take some time so maybe for the next round of show and tell.

Cheers,
Scott


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## dihsmaj (Feb 14, 2012)

So if it's about the licencing, could I buy an Eastern Blue-tongue and take THAT to school, seeing as they're off-licence in Vic?


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## Huskey (Feb 14, 2012)

was just thinking... what if you had a mate that was a vet... and he happened to be at the school at the time your snake suddenly becomes ill... and you took your snake 'to the vet'.. would that be legal?


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## browny (Feb 14, 2012)

side note but dogs and cats do need licencing so they may have these same stipulations it's just they are all soft and cuddly and no one seems to pay any attention to the 'fine print'

...just for any one who may ask, I admit I don't know everything on the licence forms for cats or dogs either.


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## eipper (Feb 14, 2012)

Non licensed species are still protected wildlife so no


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Feb 14, 2012)

What eipper is saying is absolutely true & correct for Qld.
Even at a reptile expo in QLD the animals need written authorisation from EPA & must be under a demonstrators licence.
As said the rules are there & quite clear. I have been asked by some people to do this in the past as a demo for day care etc & i have declined, as for one it against my licence rules & as has been said i believe that you would also have to have written permision from the schooling body & every single parent.

Cheers
Ian


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yer there should be the same law in every state just to make it like way easy lol like i see if a kid gets taged by ya snake well here comes the parents but in saying that its not like the snake is going to leave your hand..

and i do guess if u could take ya snake/lizard in to school alot of kids would be takeing them in lol that could not go down well, 

But yes there are some people that break the law and get away with it but yer...

(on the subjects with dogs and cats) there are dogs that are more vicious then a snake (just saying)


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## ralliart3 (Feb 14, 2012)

eipper said:


> First off I am a demonstrator in qld and have been through the hoops... Some of them are seemingly tedious but that is what the law has in place and you must comply.
> 
> At least in one state there is provision for a person to bring a specimen of wildlife out of the residence, however this still requires written permission prior to the act and the person exhibiting must not charge for the act.
> 
> ...



Are there any laws inrelation too disposing of shed skins? Seems silly if you can throw it in the bin but cannot give it away. Not disputing any of the laws,just curious as I wasnt aware of the info about the shed skins.


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## eipper (Feb 14, 2012)

Ralliart,

I am not sure, you are best to speak to your local authority and get a written directive from them

Cheers
scott


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't know that the shed skin is really a big issue, but i guess could be legally.
The main thing is that it not sold for profiteering I THINK.
Giving a kid a shed snake skin to discover is a lot different than profiteering or showing reptiles without the apropriate authority. I reckon you would be hard done by to get taken in for that.
Just my opinion by the way.
Cheers
Ian


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

eipper said:


> To the op,
> 
> ring the head of licensing local to you and ask the question, chances are you will get permission if you ask how to go about it. I would get it in writing though. This will probably take some time so maybe for the next round of show and tell.
> 
> ...



And there we have the REAL answer! All this to and frow and at the end of the day it takes one phone call to the relevant authority and it is amazing how often you find a favourable answer, although it may come with some conditions. If you are really keen to do it it will be worth the hassle. 

Now that it has been all explained I know that I will be contacting the licensing people at NSW Wildlife and running it past them because I am still adamant that the kids deserve the chance to see how a snake can be kept etc and there has not been a display operator come to our town in over six years.

Again thankyou for clarifying things Scott.


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

I have made the phone call at 10 this morning still waiting for some one to call me back


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## Gruni (Feb 14, 2012)

Ring again in the morning...


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## Jake007 (Feb 14, 2012)

I will be


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## damo77 (Feb 14, 2012)

As a teacher and a herp keeper i was hoping to take some animals in on occasions. After having a talk with my deputy principle I realised it wasnt going to happen. A nightmare of EQ paperwork, insurance etc.


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## PimmsPythons (Feb 14, 2012)

as eipper said, you need to have a deminstrators permit, however there is another way and that is through applying for an "authorised display" through your local EPA. you can call them and tell them what you are planning to do and what animals your taking ,then they will decide whether to give you permission or not. they will also send you paperwork stating your guidelines if approved.most of the time it isn't worth the hassel unless you have a deminstrators permit.
cheers
simon


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

There are so many different answers but then they all come back to no haha


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

No, they come back to call the relevent people, a quick chat to EPA or whoever else and you will know for sure. The number of times I have been told and after a phone call or two I have had permission for one thing or another is amazing.


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

I have tried to contact them an they said they would call me back -.-

So I called back 20 mons ago spoke to the same guy as yesterday and he said that he couldn't get in contact with them still 2 days in a row I left my number with them yesterday and again to day so still waiting ... 

No one would be able to inbox me a contact to them straight by any chance.?


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## lavagirl (Feb 15, 2012)

Far out! I didnt know that. But then I only had one snake at the time so wasnt legally licensed (dont need to be in SA to keep 1).

Will definitely remember that for future though.


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

Just letting you all no on here you are aloud to do it  there is a person you need to speek to and they will write out a forum and a few other little things need to be done as well


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

Post up some details later with the number and department etc. Good on you Jake. 8)


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## Heelssss (Feb 15, 2012)

hi all. If your in NSW you can display them, but you cannot get paid to do a 'Show' like an exhibitor where you get paid to do it. 

All you have to do is email the proper authorities and outline exactly what, where, when, and why you are taking species. 
It usually takes approx 3 days to be approved if all goes well. 
Its a Bit of of paper work but well worth the time and effort. Hope this has helped a bit.


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

Who is the relevent authority to ok it in NSW Fangs? Is it NPWS or Envirnment, Climate Change and Water? We have been talking about a school show and tell for our kids etc so payment was never a thought anyway.


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

Haha I new I was RIGHT haha first time for everything I guess


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## Heelssss (Feb 15, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Who is the relevent authority to ok it in NSW Fangs? Is it NPWS or Envirnment, Climate Change and Water? We have been talking about a school show and tell for our kids etc so payment was never a thought anyway.


Licensing or Environment


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks Fangs, I just got off the phone with them actually while following up a couple of things. 

Here in NSW you need to send an email to wildlife.licensing@environment.nsw.gov.au and outline your activity in writing. Each case is considered on its own merits and so permission is not a garanty but if it gets approved it takes about three days and they will let you know. By the sounds of the people I spoke to something as simple as taking a Spotted Python into a school for a quick 'show and tell' is not a problem and permission will be granted. Larger snakes may not be so easy but she sis say it depends on _how you present your case_. So if you can show that you have thought about risk assessment etc you should be pretty well ok.


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## moosenoose (Feb 15, 2012)

Anyone who knows me already knows what my opinion is on this topic. A pet dog, for instance, at a show & tell could always end in a far worse injury. Just more ignorance and fear being thrown around by the clueless big wigs.


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

It's funny all these people that have said stuff on here about the show and tell have been wrong well there not WRONG but in fact there is a person you can speek to that will let it happen just are rules ect...


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## Heelssss (Feb 15, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Thanks Fangs, I just got off the phone with them actually while following up a couple of things.
> 
> Here in NSW you need to send an email to wildlife.licensing@environment.nsw.gov.au and outline your activity in writing. Each case is considered on its own merits and so permission is not a garanty but if it gets approved it takes about three days and they will let you know. By the sounds of the people I spoke to something as simple as taking a Spotted Python into a school for a quick 'show and tell' is not a problem and permission will be granted. Larger snakes may not be so easy but she sis say it depends on _how you present your case_. So if you can show that you have thought about risk assessment etc you should be pretty well ok.




No worries, they r great there especially Alan, so much patience!

But the obvious is you wont take in a red belly or a snappy dragon. Common sense I say.  

Teaching kids a bit of understanding of our natives can one day also help educate with domestic cat and dog attacks on our wildlife. Keep those cats indoors, I drill into them lol
but good on you for expressing interest the worst they can say is no!


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## PimmsPythons (Feb 15, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> It's funny all these people that have said stuff on here about the show and tell have been wrong well there not WRONG but in fact there is a person you can speek to that will let it happen just are rules ect...



what you are speaking of is called an "authorised display" as i stated earlier.its quite easy to get permission ,its just a bit of a hassle.we did our first 2 expos under an "authorised display" but it comes with conditions .


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## Defective (Feb 15, 2012)

see now i really don't want to move interstate.....the laws on this are so lax that and i'm known around the NPWSA for some of the good stuff i've done regarding exotics and bad husbandry.


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

slimebo said:


> what you are speaking of is called an "authorised display" as i stated earlier.its quite easy to get permission ,its just a bit of a hassle.we did our first 2 expos under an "authorised display" but it comes with conditions .





What do you do your expos under now ? Or do u still do it under the same ?


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## PimmsPythons (Feb 15, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> What do you do your expos under now ? Or do u still do it under the same ?



we now do it under a demonstrators permit


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

slimebo, I think Jake was referring to the people who basically said it's a 'no no' and don't even think about doing it. The other thing is that the conditions and hassles aren't really that big a deal for what we were talking about all along which is a 10 or 20 min visit to one classroom, certainly here in NSW the hassles are negligible... one quick email. Long and short of it is you can do it and you can do it legally if you really want to make it happen, regardless of the state you are living in.


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## Heelssss (Feb 15, 2012)

Gruni said:


> slimebo, I think Jake was referring to the people who basically said it's a 'no no' and don't even think about doing it. The other thing is that the conditions and hassles aren't really that big a deal for what we were talking about all along which is a 10 or 20 min visit to one classroom, certainly here in NSW the hassles are negligible... one quick email. Long and short of it is you can do it and you can do it legally if you really want to make it happen, regardless of the state you are living in.



Well said gruni


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## jack (Feb 15, 2012)

leighroyaus said:


> No offence to you fangs. But most teachers are bloody weirdos.



i am, that is certain, but most of the people i work with seem relatively normal... 
if you're gonna have a dig, why not dwell on the spelling used instead, like this: "two teachers on this thread have used principle rather than principal..."

back on topic, i have taken animals to my school, and will quite likely do so again, irrespective of the opinion of any of you or the so called authorities. I fully support anyone in the education game who does likewise in a responsible manner.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Feb 15, 2012)

Hey Jack, maybe you could be a teacher on here as well & teach us all how to spell & puch-uate etc.LOL.

Cheers
Ian
Some of these posts must crack you up.


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## jack (Feb 15, 2012)

i am quite forgiving of most typo's and simple spelling errors, indeed in my own posts i ignore much grammar myself (sic).... thus will not be correcting anyone.

if, however, you post text speak i immediately decide you are quite likely an idiot or perhaps an imbecile, a moron at the very least


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

You had me worried Jack and made me go back and check but the one reference I made to the executive I used 'principal'... phew. I usually look back over my stuff and look for typos and will usually go back in and edit if I post and then notice it. :lol:

I try to leave the teacher at work when I go on line and as much as I bite my tongue I cringe at the wrong use of 'there/their/they're' could 'of' and the use of textese like ne1.


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Feb 15, 2012)

So what am i Jack? My Grandma is ok.
I hope yours is as well & i hope you are as well. I don't think that you are a wierdo, but you are a teacher & i reckon that you would have to have a special gift or the right mentality to do so.
It is just like i take my hat off to the ambulance officers & firemen that do it day in day out without any reckognition (if that is right jack) so i take my hat off to teachers. Who could put up with all that screaming mob that don't want to learn & just have fun day in & day out.
I bet you look forward to getting home to your critters. LOL.

Cheers
Ian


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

I have just lost what you guys are on about HAHAHA just went over my head..

i text all day and i type how i text sorry that i text how i talk but most of the time i use tapatalk think that is the app so in a way yes i am texting and im sorry for that... (is this what you are on about ?)lol if not im so lost in this convo


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (Feb 15, 2012)

Jake007 said:


> I have just lost what you guys are on about HAHAHA just went over my head..
> 
> i text all day and i type how i text sorry that i text how i talk but most of the time i use tapatalk think that is the app so in a way yes i am texting and im sorry for that... (is this what you are on about ?)lol if not im so lost in this convo



I think you are fine Dude,
Cheers
Ian


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Feb 15, 2012)

Hey guys, during cyclone yasi i had to leave my house to go to my girlfriends parents place to help out there. I was worried about leaving my animals at myhouse due to the possible loss of power, and also the risk of something happening to the house and having my animals hurt. I decided to take them with me, I didnt ask anyone for permission, i had no movement advice and my girlfriend isnt a vet. Am I a bad person?


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## Gruni (Feb 15, 2012)

No George you're sensible. :lol:


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## Jake007 (Feb 15, 2012)

U are fine  surely they wouldn't do you for that


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## Heelssss (Feb 16, 2012)

Always has to be a grinch on here!! 

Meh stick to the topic or go to the naughty corner!


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## SamNabz (Feb 16, 2012)

Just for the record, I never said it was impossible - I said there are rules in place.

But to just wake up one morning and decide you are going to take your reptiles to a classroom full of children is definitely a 'no-no' as Gruni puts it...

I still haven't gotten an answer for my question though.. "What happens  if your snake bites a student?" I don't think speaking to DERM and signing one or 2 papers is going to cover you for that..?

You have no public liability insurance, and unless you get all the parents, the teacher(s) and principal to sign some sort of waiver or document stating they are there at their own risk etc. it could backfire on you..

I also think that passing such a document around would put some parents off letting their child attend if it had words like "at your own risk" or "if something should happen as these are still typically wild animals..." and so on.

Can any demonstrators confirm, deny, or elaborate on this?


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## Gruni (Feb 16, 2012)

Actually if you have a clearance from the licensing authority and you then speak to the principal of the school and are given the ok the department of Ed liability covers the student as it then becomes a school activity. The individual school may ask that a permission slip go home but it is dobtful for the activity we are discussing. The school will expect you to show them what risk assessment you have in place and I think you are being pissy about this as a show and tell where it is clear that the students remain in their seat and it is a 'no hands on' presentation there is zero chance of a student getting tagged.

BTW I am not taking an educated guess I have 18 years experience in the department and know that it will not come back on you if you properly organise it. We are not talking about walking in, out of the blue, and plonking a snake in the middle of a group of kids. You may not have said it was impossible but talk about a wet blanket to what would be an awesome experience for the kids. Go back to the original posts and put it in perspective, Jake and I did not suggest this was a reptile display the way the wildlife parks etc run when they come to the schools. 

Yes we suggested not pursuing the relevent channels and are thankful to the people who pointed us in the right direction, as you can see we have both followed it up and found the answers we needed. Thanks for the support from those who gave it we are some of the last bastions stopping our society from turning into a complete 'Nanny State'.



SamNabz said:


> I also think that passing such a document around would put some parents off letting their child attend if it had words like "at your own risk" or "if something should happen as these are still typically wild animals..." and so on.
> 
> Can any demonstrators confirm, deny, or elaborate on this?



For a start you would not word it like that. You ask whether the parents give permission for students to attend a presenation of reptiles at the school run by 'X' and that the show _may_ involve the oportunity to handle some of the non-venomous exhibits.

As I said the department has Pub Liability for school events and a show like you are talking about would only really be run by a licensed exhibiter but I am sure Scott could clarify that element of things.


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## eipper (Feb 16, 2012)

Basically if you work for the public you require your own public liability. Being sanctioned by the school means little if there is nothing in the school's policy about incursions with animals. Some of the high schools may have this though especially if they have an ag science section.

Another point (I raised this earlier) is why you must have permission from your local authority is to make the "demo" legal. Illegal activities will not be covered by the school's p l insurance.

It's good to see that this thread has got people at least thinking about a few things and hopefully more than few students can be introduced to the wonders of Australian wildlife

Cheers
Scott


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## Heelssss (Feb 16, 2012)

eipper said:


> Basically if you work for the public you require your own public liability. Being sanctioned by the school means little if there is nothing in the school's policy about incursions with animals. Some of the high schools may have this though especially if they have an ag science section.
> 
> Another point (I raised this earlier) is why you must have permission from your local authority is to make the "demo" legal. Illegal activities will not be covered by the school's p l insurance.
> 
> ...



Thats right, at the end of the day if you can be bothered with all the paperwork , go for gold - Like i have. Because i think its worth it.
But if not, then so be it.


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## Jake007 (Feb 16, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> Just for the record, I never said it was impossible - I said there are rules in place.
> 
> But to just wake up one morning and decide you are going to take your reptiles to a classroom full of children is definitely a 'no-no' as Gruni puts it...
> 
> ...




a student shouldnt be bitten cause of the fact its a hands off so it would be your fault i guess .. but its usually a hand off thing ... You could say the same about aus zoo what if one of there show snakes bit guest ???


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## eipper (Feb 16, 2012)

Jake

I can assure you Australia zoo has public liability insurance just for that reason. Children especially do not always follow the rules laid out. It is the skill of the demonstrator to be able to predict both the audience and the animals they are using to assist in the prevention of bites. As for it's going to be strictly hands off, if you misjudge the strike distance and a child happens to be too close it can result in a bite. 

Good luck with your show and tell I am sure it will be a hit and great for the kids

Cheers
scott


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## Jake007 (Feb 16, 2012)

Yer I would under stand with a big snake but I'm only takeing in a 6-9 month old snake


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## Gruni (Feb 17, 2012)

Jake, relax, make it happen and post a thread about how well it goes off.


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## stimigex (Feb 17, 2012)

If this is the snake your having trouble with biting and you not understanding why please do not take this critter into a class room full of kids!

This will do our hobby no favours if it starts to bite and draw blood in a public situation!


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## SamNabz (Feb 17, 2012)

eipper said:


> Jake
> 
> I can assure you Australia zoo has public liability insurance just for that reason. Children especially do not always follow the rules laid out. It is the skill of the demonstrator to be able to predict both the audience and the animals they are using to assist in the prevention of bites. As for it's going to be strictly hands off, if you misjudge the strike distance and a child happens to be too close it can result in a bite.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. throughout this thread, Scott.



Gruni said:


> Jake, relax, make it happen and post a thread about how well it goes off.



All the best to him mate, I'm not trying to tell him *not* to bother or pursue it - I just hope he goes about it the right way, that's all.



stimigex said:


> If this is the snake your having trouble with biting and you not understanding why please do not take this critter into a class room full of kids!
> 
> This will do our hobby no favours if it starts to bite and draw blood in a public situation!



I just saw that thread and was about to ask the same thing stimigex..


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## Jake007 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yer I'm haveing trouble with my other snake. Most people do have a few more then just one snake 

And u are right who in there right mind would take a biteing snake to school I'm not a d******d


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## Gruni (Feb 17, 2012)

Sam my post wasn't aimed at you. Jake is reacting a bit strongly at the moment. We have highlighted the issues and sorted out the technicalities I would just like to see Jake move on with things and let us all know how it went. 

I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a cranky snake out in public so lets just drop it and move along. The same with the whole insurance thing as that will be sorted out as soon as the school is consulted and they look into their procedures. I spoke to the principal yesterday at my son's school and she was very happy about it and said that she would follow up on the Dept requirements for me and I am sure the same will happen in Jake's case.


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## Jake007 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yer I spoke to the teach of my brothers class and she said no problem and so did the head person ... So next week it will be ...


The answer to this topic is YES you can take your snake to show and tell just need to fill out some paper work


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## Suenstu (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, I'm in Brisneyland, and I just took 4 pythons and 2 dragons for show and tell for my two boys - one in year 4, one in year 7.
Teachers were great and very supportive and interested. Both teachers felt it was a great opportunity for the students.
There were no incidences, it was very much a "hands off" show and tell - a couple of the kids asked to "pat" the non business end of a couple of the snakes, and that was fine. The kids also patted the bigger of the two dragons and loved it.
I would hope that I have now played some (very small) part in inspiring a whole new batch of young herpers, as there were many questions about husbandry and "how do I get one". I was impressed with how senisble the questions were.
I have a feeling that the teachers may ask us back in the future, and I will gladly facilitate that.
It's a matter of being sensible. Thats all.
Hope it goes equally as well for you Jake, look forward to hearing how it went.


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## Jake007 (Feb 17, 2012)

Suenstu said:


> Well, I'm in Brisneyland, and I just took 4 pythons and 2 dragons for show and tell for my two boys - one in year 4, one in year 7.
> Teachers were great and very supportive and interested. Both teachers felt it was a great opportunity for the students.
> There were no incidences, it was very much a "hands off" show and tell - a couple of the kids asked to "pat" the non business end of a couple of the snakes, and that was fine. The kids also patted the bigger of the two dragons and loved it.
> I would hope that I have now played some (very small) part in inspiring a whole new batch of young herpers, as there were many questions about husbandry and "how do I get one". I was impressed with how senisble the questions were.
> ...



Thanks alot  

Did all the kids ask any questions ? 
If so what was the funniest one


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## Suenstu (Feb 17, 2012)

Loads of questions!! They were very interested in how you get temps right, if they drink, where they sleep etc.
Funniest question was from a red faced boy who asked me very politely if snakes "poop" and "how does it get out"....


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## Jake007 (Feb 18, 2012)

Suenstu said:


> Loads of questions!! They were very interested in how you get temps right, if they drink, where they sleep etc.
> Funniest question was from a red faced boy who asked me very politely if snakes "poop" and "how does it get out"....



HAHAHA legend question lol


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## Gruni (Feb 18, 2012)

Picked up my Mac this morning and having a great chat there with two very experienced herpers. One had been chatting to the guys at NPWS and they want us to email and organise these sorts of things as much as possible because it lets them build up a body of evidence they can then use to convince the minister to amend the license legislation by showing that those of us who hold a license wold like to be able to do this sort of stuff and would like a little more room to move within the general conditions of the licenses we hold.


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## Heelssss (Feb 25, 2012)

My fav "QUOTE" was from one of my 9 year old students, and super confident " you cannot hold the blue tongue lizard because they are very poisonous and will make you vomit if our hold them " Gold!


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## Jake007 (Feb 25, 2012)

The kids loved it when I took the snake in to show and tell they could get enough of it lol they had some many questions was crazy  lucky I have been doing quite a bit of research on pythons/ some other snake lateley other wise I would looked stupid lol.
Really did love going 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Gruni (Feb 25, 2012)

So what sort of stuff did they aske Jake?


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## Jake007 (Feb 26, 2012)

One question that got asked like 5 times what how much doesn't cost for a reptile lincence . You could so see they were going home to ask there parents hahaha

Few asked if I have been bitten and ask if it was venomous haha there were a few kids been looking at snakes and reptiles in there class and then I came in they were pretty happy  but yer asked how much they eat. Was a good day


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Suenstu (Feb 26, 2012)

ha ha! Good one Jake! It's awesome isn't it? Really glad to hear it went so well for you. It's so important to educate kids properly about our native reps. Hopefully we've both done our bit to spark off a whole new generation of herpers!


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## Jake007 (Feb 26, 2012)

Yer well my mum is a teacher at the same school and she was saying some other teacher would like me to come in one time in the next 6 months of so  so yer... But I don't no what the go is if there is only so many times u can go in or something so I said just give it some months and I'll try again


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## Gruni (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think there would be any real limit Jake, our local guys want us to apply for these sorts of permits so they can build a case to get the minister to amend the license so that one day we may not need to apply at all so go for it; the worst they can do is say no and the school could look at having you show two classes at once which would reduce the number of times you would need to go up.


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## Jake007 (Feb 26, 2012)

Yer well I think they pushed another class in the room lol  was good very good


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## Gruni (Mar 13, 2012)

I took Skittles in for show and tell today. The kids were so wrapped. I did my daughter's year 4 class first but was only given about 15mins so it got a bit rushed as the scripture class were cueing up to use the room. Quite a few of the kids in her class have either snakes or lizards already. Skye even commented on how settled they were compared to usual. One of her little class mates ran up to me down town and told me what a beautiful snake Skittles is.

Riley's year 6 cass wre next and I had 3/4 of an hour with them and finished right on the bell.  They were full of questions and loved every minute of the presentation. His teacher was more into it too which helped. I love when they ask if he is venemous but the GOLD award question was how do they poo? The girl didn't notice a bum hole when I walked around with Skittles and even said... 'I mean do they poo out their mouth or something?' I then explained about the cloaca and where to find it and the penie sheath and that the urate and poo come out the same hole. It really wasn't such a silly question when you think about it and when she said about the mouth she really meant 'surely they don't poo out their mouth.'

Skittles was a bit freaked out in the first showing and held on tight to my watch, he was back in the click clack for about half an hour when I got him out for Riley and he didn't grab hold but after a lap of the room he coiled up and did a couple of bluff strikes at me which impressed (and worried) the kids quite a bit. When I got him home he shot into his hide and stayed there sulking for two hours until I gave hime some fresh water and he came out to check on what I had 'tampered with'.


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## Jake007 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thats great I had a ball when I did it haha  I'm going back tomorro a teacher has asked me to come in for there calls cause they are looking at reptiles  so I can't wait to go again but I have a bit of a better under standing of how u could do it better then befor  

The kids looks like they love it


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## Gruni (Mar 13, 2012)

Yeah I didn't realise really until I looked at the pics and saw how excited the kids looked. As you can see in the background Skye's teacher really wasn't very interested at all.


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## pythonmum (Mar 13, 2012)

Glad you found out how to do this with permission. If you contact the licensing authorities in advance, they are usually willing to allow you to do a demo if you have permission. If you want to let kids touch the herps, have a demonstrator come in because they have the right license. If you want to keep a rep at school, it is well worth going through the ethics applications, etc. I have done so and the herps at our school (3 pythons, 2 dragons) really add to the educational experience.


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## Jake007 (Mar 13, 2012)

pythonmum said:


> Glad you found out how to do this with permission. If you contact the licensing authorities in advance, they are usually willing to allow you to do a demo if you have permission. If you want to let kids touch the herps, have a demonstrator come in because they have the right license. If you want to keep a rep at school, it is well worth going through the ethics applications, etc. I have done so and the herps at our school (3 pythons, 2 dragons) really add to the educational experience.





Was looking the other week how you do a demonstrat course would be so good but I think I need to do another course first after our baby comes in 20 days will be looking right in to it would be great 







 went to year 4 to day and and stoped in at the class I went last time and they gave me a card they made for me  was great good after noon yet again think I will give Charlie a few days to keep to him self


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## Heelssss (Mar 16, 2012)

Well done, always gets the kiddies excited to see a big lizard or snake 

Hence, my encouragement for show and tell of these beauties  good work


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## Gruni (Mar 16, 2012)

Love the cards Jake. Riley said 'Thanks for bringing Skittles in, it meant we didn't have to write a exposition and got to write something interesting. Why do snakes make good pets? I agreed of course because they are quiet and relaxing to watch...'


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## jack (Mar 16, 2012)

on the topic of permission, did have each child's parent/guardian sign off on the media consent forms so that you could legally publish their image on the internet?

don't be offended, i'm just taking the p... out of the legal system. 

well done for helping educate kids.


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## Gruni (Mar 16, 2012)

jack said:


> on the topic of permission, did have each child's parent/guardian sign off on the media consent forms so that you could legally publish their image on the internet?
> 
> *don't be offended, i'm just taking the p... out of the legal system.
> *
> well done for helping educate kids.



Just as well you added that I was about to find an emote to give you the finger...


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## Jake007 (Mar 16, 2012)

Just give him the finger hahaha wow wouldn't think any one would say that

Did u want me to make sure I have parents permission about the cards as well  some one might copy there writing


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## pythonmum (Mar 16, 2012)

I had the little kids at school make posters about the snake while waiting their turn to touch him. I now have some great art in my classroom. Some of the year 2 boys even labelled heat-sensing pits and camouflage spots! I was very impressed at how well they listened to my little talk. Retention of information is always much better when Mr Pebbles (classroom MD) is involved.


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## rockett85 (Mar 16, 2012)

eipper said:


> It is strictly illegal plain and simple in all states for good reason.
> 
> These include that you are not to remove a reptile (or product including a shed skin) from your premises, except in transit for trade or for a vet visit.
> 
> ...



That's ridiculous, a quick show and tell is not even allowed!! whats the world coming too?


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## Jake007 (Mar 16, 2012)

Hahaha yer just some people wouldn't have a clue what there talking about all ya do is smile and nod hahaha  

I have taken the snakes to school two times now and every one is happy as

I think moving the shed skin is a load of rot ...  I no I have chucked some in the bin :O I'm in trouble now


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## Gruni (Mar 16, 2012)

rockett85 said:


> That's ridiculous, a quick show and tell is not even allowed!! whats the world coming too?



Rockett you have to bare in mind, as clarified later in the thread, Eipper was talking about taking them without seeking a permit first. As we hae shown once you approach the relevent authorities it is only a matter of procedure, they are quite happy on the whole to give you a permit to do stuff like a show and tell.

And Jake the point about publicity release is actually a fair point strictly speaking and I wasn't really thinking when I posted the pics. If a kid comes from a split family and there are considerations like an AVO where one parent isn't to know where the kid is it can be a real issue with posting the images. I will just keep my fingers crossed, as this forum is not exactly 'mainstream' and I didn't label the pics so a Google search would still miss them, that I will be safe enough.


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## Jake007 (Mar 16, 2012)

Yer but still life goes on


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## Gruni (Dec 18, 2012)

I'm doing a return visit to the kids school this afternoon to show them how much Skittles has grown and changed. This time though the focus won't be so much on how to keep a snake as doing a bit of a saftey talk about snakes in the wild so I am really quite excited and looking forward to the afternoon.


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## Jessie_James (Dec 18, 2012)

Gruni said:


> I'm doing a return visit to the kids school this afternoon to show them how much Skittles has grown and changed. This time though the focus won't be so much on how to keep a snake as doing a bit of a saftey talk about snakes in the wild so I am really quite excited and looking forward to the afternoon.



Well done Gruni, IMO there should be more of it. I understand the need for rules and regulations governing the ownership of reptiles but as long as all relevant parties are consulted and a few guidelines established to protect yourself and the class I don't see the problem. Society is so hell bent on rules these days that people have forgotten to experience life in the process.


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## Gruni (Dec 18, 2012)

Presentation went a treat. They were a very switched on group and the good part is how much they remembered from last time I was there. This time I focused on what to do to avoid getting bitten and also a quick demo/explanation of a compression bandage. The kids realy do love this sort of thing, even the ones who are a bit toey about snakes.


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