# What are the reptile laws in your country?



## kevyn (Nov 25, 2003)

Hey,
I'm a Canadian keeper and lean towards Southeast Asian species of snakes. All my snakes are captive bred and hatched, they are all clean and disease free. My wife and I are planning a move to Australia in the next few years. I was hoping someone can tell me what exactly are the laws regarding the private keeping of reptiles. I'm gathering a permit is required, but is the keeping of venomous allowed? I understand that Australia has been seriously damaged by introduced species but is there a permit or license to allow the keeping of exotic snakes? Also some Australian species here cost a small fortune to buy, like green trees, diamond pythons, and bredls just to name a few. What are the costs like there? Sorry to ask so many questions and thanks very much for your time.


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## Belinda (Nov 25, 2003)

WEll in NSW we have different levels of licencing, class 1,2,3 or based on the level of care ect...It will explain it in more detail here.

http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/Reptile+keepers+licence

Go to Complete outline of the NSW reptile licensing system (PDF - 42KB)

BTW Welcome to APS! What reptiles do you keep?


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## mystic_herps (Nov 25, 2003)

In Australia you can't legally own any exotics unless licenced as a private zoo or an exhibitionist of education & awareness.

The standard reptile keepers licensing starts off with a basic class 1 that allows you to keep the easy and/or non endangered species.You may progress to upgrade your licence after a certain amount of time and when a few criteria features are met.

Class 2 allows harder animals to keep and/or rarer species.On a class 2 you may also apply for endorsements to keep elapids once you meet certain requirements and criteria.

Prices are alot cheaper here for Australian animals than you would be used to paying over there.For eg: Diamonds & Bredli average $350 each for hatchlings.

Note:
Different states have different classes of licences.I have described NSW.

Also GTP are worth a fortune here due to ONLY Aus species being allowed to be kept (PNG,Indonesia etc species being exotic)...


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## Belinda (Nov 25, 2003)

*blinks*....What he said! :d


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## westhamsc (Nov 25, 2003)

in vistoria we have the basic and the advanced wildlife licences but it's the same as what mystic_herps said


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## Morelia_man (Nov 25, 2003)

up in the NT we got the most easiest permit system, this is the place to be


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## africancichlidau (Nov 25, 2003)

Depends what part of Oz you are coming to. In Victoria there are the two classes of licence, Basic, and Advanced, no time between either or tests etc. Only difference being in cost and allowed species. If you are coming to Victoria and would like more info just PM me and give me your mailing address and I will send you the blurb put out by the Department. One thing in case you're thinking of your snakes emigrating with you, you won't have much chance of that as all exotic imports are banned, get caught bringing 'em in and when you get out of gaol you won't be able to get a licence. The laws are pretty strict over here now.


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## Fuscus (Nov 25, 2003)

The permit system differs from state to state(but you have already realized that). In South Australia a class 1 fauna licence (beginners) is just a matter of paying money ($AUD40 per year), a class 2 requires you having a class 1 for a year and proof that you have sucessfully kept reptiles. Forget importing reptiles, thre is a almost non-existant possiblity of getting a permit and the animals wil require 13 months quarrantine. Movement of reptiles between states (except WA) requires red-tape but (at least in SA) importing reptiles just requires filling in a form (NO Money) and waiting for permission.
As for prices, have a look at the trading pages on this site and here are some URLS of sellers
(NOTE : Breeding has just started down here and the shelves are near empty - they will fill up shortly)
http://reptile.senet.com.au/price.html
http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/search.php
http://www.snakesnt.com/
http://herptrader.com.au/

I've included pails for scales butI can't find his price list
http://www.pailsforscales.com/home.htm


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## NoOne (Nov 25, 2003)

You have no chance at all in bringing your snakes with you. You'll have to start over when you get here.
Hatchlings start becoming avalible from November and i think you would find most of our prices pretty good.


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## africancichlidau (Nov 25, 2003)

Pails for scales price list is there, you have to go to the relevant page and then "mouse over" where it says "mouse over" for price list  Strange but true, maybe he was trained by the Croc hunter


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## kevyn (Nov 26, 2003)

First off thanks so much for all your replies. I can't recall who offered to email a copy of the licensing laws and all that but I'll mail you soon. To answer Belle-Belinda's question I keep burmese pythons (including the albinos), ball pythons (royal pythons), spotted pythons, rosy boas, boa constrictors, amazon tree boas, jungle carpet pythons, wagler's temple pit vipers. I should be getting a majove rattlesnake pretty quick, and will be adding some bloods and short tail pythons, as well as some retics, most likely the tigers and super tigers. Oh ya, I forgot my iguana. I'll post some pictures soon once I get a chance to explore the site abit more and figure how things work. My albino burm rocks as does the temple viper. I'm hoping to get some baby gaboons in the spring (late March, April, May here) and some sri lankin palm vipers and some white lipped vipers. Thanks again all.


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## lutzd (Nov 26, 2003)

**

What are you planning on doing with all of your snakes when you come over here, because you won't be able to bring them with you!  

Sounds like a very impressive collection. It'd break my heart to have to leave a collection like that.. :cry:


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## nobojono (Nov 26, 2003)

*.*

imagine what he could have here after selling his collection tho :shock:


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## kevyn (Nov 26, 2003)

Actually alot of that stuff is really cheat here. Albino burms are actually more expensive in the U.S. I don't know what I'll do with them, its killing me the thought of it though. Maybe something will come up. My new mantra is: I love elapids, I love elapids.


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## Amy (Nov 26, 2003)

In WA our rules are extremly strict (may be the most strict) when it comes to importing. As people have already stated, you cant bring your snakes into Australia from Overseas. Once you get to Australia, if you decide to settle in West Aus, you will not be able to buy snakes/reptiles from any other state or territory. WA bred snakes only. We can not feed live food and have a limited list of what reptiles we can keep as pets. We have only been allowed to keep reptiles as pets since March 7th of this year. 

As for prices, because we have only just been toldwe can keep snakes as pets, prices are sky high. a Stimsons Python which could cost 150$ - 300$ etc from any other state will cost around 600 -700 aussie dollars here. Prices should come down as herping becomes more popular in WA


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## Robert (Nov 26, 2003)

Hi Kevyn,
Sunny Queensland is the place to be.(I'll cop it for that,but it is true),We have a couple of licences aswell.A Recreational Licence-Allowing you to keep most python's,colubrid's and Lizards.
There is also a Specialist Licence-Allowing you to keep Rare Python's and Elapids etc.Easy access to all animals via internet paper's but no shop's.Shipping interstate requires amovement advise but is very cheap.Welcome to APS.Hope to see some of your collection one day in the gallery it sounds great.


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## africancichlidau (Nov 26, 2003)

Hi Kev, I have sent you an email with some stuff to read and have emailed the department asking them for licensing details and species lists etc so I will forward that when I get it.


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## Fuscus (Nov 26, 2003)

To follow on from Amy feeding of live food (ie furball , birds and maybe frogs - others don't count) is illegal in all states - it is illegal in SA. People in other states please tell us, can you legally feed live mammals to reptiles?


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## NoOne (Nov 26, 2003)

Don't know if it's legal in NSW but who cares, how are they going to catch ya.


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## Amy (Nov 27, 2003)

Just quickly (at work) 

Fuscus: we West Aussies cant feed any live animal to a snake including mice, rats and what not. (Dont know if crickets count etc.)

No-one: If someone (supplier, pet shop owner, a person who comes to your front door trying to get you to convert) even suspects you of feeding live animals to snakes, you'll be investigated and if found guilty, well, hope you have a deeeep back pocket.


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## Robert (Nov 27, 2003)

I have a feeling the same goes for Qld feeding live that is.It is illegal as far as i know.I think it is frowned upon by ppl who think it is cruel.This is nature at work.You don't see a lion for instance saying to a deer,"Do you mind if I chuck you in the freezer before i eat you so it doesn't hurt and that way ppl think i am not cruel".I can not see the harm in in a animal being fed in it's natural way.Apart from the obvious risk of disease's etc.


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## Parko (Nov 27, 2003)

If it is illegal to feed a live mouse to a snake is it legal to flick the mouse against a hard surface to smash it's skull in?


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## Alexahnder (Nov 27, 2003)

i doubt it is illigal. A lot of petshops sell live feeder mice of all sizes


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## mystic_herps (Nov 27, 2003)

It is illegal throughout all of Australia.
All animals must be euthanised humanely.Whether native or exotic and whether culling or to be used for food.However I dont think this rule would apply to such things as mosquito larvae,feeder guppies etc.Perhaps it is just in reference to mammals?


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## Amy (Nov 27, 2003)

feeder guppies (any small fish for that matter eg: goldfish), crickets etc dont not apply under this law. As Mystic_Herps said, it applies to any mammal. No, flicking mice and crushing their skulls isn't considered humane.

And Robert, they say it is inhumane because the mouse doesn't have a chance to run away etc. it is inevitable that it will be eaten where as in the wild they have a chance (although very slim) of escaping. This isn't my excuse, this is what CALM (Conservation and Land Management) say.

Amy


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## kevyn (Nov 27, 2003)

That's really strange that it's illegal to feed live. I personally don't feed live for various reasons, but with a picky feeder or when a snake goes off its feed (usually ball pythons) live is a quick way to get a snake feeding again. It's perfectly legal here. As an outsider it looks as though your country is more aware of it's animals. Things are alot different here.


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## Belinda (Nov 27, 2003)

Thats pretty darn stingy...Most of the snakes out there are venomus...If the mouse gets bitten and runs away....It kinda still gets eaten..


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## Amy (Nov 27, 2003)

Kevyn: Australia does have really strict laws but as long as you stay within these, then herping is really quite unrestricted (from what I know here in sheltered WA anyways)

Belle: I agree, it is my opinion that if a herper wishes to feed live, they should be allowed, I have many reasons why I wont personally


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## mystic_herps (Nov 27, 2003)

I just watched a doco on feeding Elapids.
They were using frozen/thawed rats and would wiggle the item on tongs infront of the snake.After it had striked they would retreat the rat (about a foot away) and continue wriggling it to simulate the item dying before leaving it for the snake to consume.


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## kevyn (Nov 27, 2003)

I'm not sure what 'stingy' means. I hope you didn't take my post as a criticism. What I meant was that your country seems more concerned with animal welfare than we are here. I get really angery here. Where I live people often won't pick up the fruit off the trees in their yards and this ofcourse attracks bears. So those same people that were too lazy to pick the fruit that lured the hungry bear, are kind enough to shoot it. I'm also not sure if you meant that most snakes here are venomous? Most here in Canada are not. We have 2 species of rattlesnake and that's it. Both species are endangered here (northern pacific and the massauga). I'm also not sure how a mouse being bitten and running away would be possible with a captive snake. I've probably totally misunderstood your post so please forgive me. It's past my bed time. :wink:


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## Belinda (Nov 27, 2003)

Stingy= Pretty crappy

I meant most snakes over hear are venomous...but not all.


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## kevyn (Nov 27, 2003)

gotcha! That's what I thought you meant but as I said its past my bed time. Nice boa by the way. Where was the picture taken? It looks huge. To reiderate, I think you guys do alot of right things when it comes to your wildlife. There's this big debate happening in the city I live in regarding banning the ownership of reptiles. I've been screaming for some form of licencing system for years now. I think that's the way to go.


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## Belinda (Nov 27, 2003)

Yeah i agree Kevyn..... It was taken at the Australian reptile Park. I helped out at a demonstration on my 13th birthday.


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## Parko (Nov 27, 2003)

G'day Kevyn, Have there always been so few species of snake in Canada or are some extinct? I imagine it is too harsh a climate for many species to exist?


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## insectovor (Nov 27, 2003)

Go Queensland laws,I have to say Nt and Queensland rule,.. Reptiles are living in our backyard


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## insectovor (Nov 27, 2003)

Oh sorry I have to say that the prices here in Qld of reptiles are the lowest I've seen in Australia.....That's what it should be....


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## kevyn (Nov 28, 2003)

The only species I know of for sure that has gone extinct here in Canada (besides dinosours ofcourse) is the timber rattlesnake. The climate in most of Canada isn't too too harsh but we can have so nasty winters. We have a fair number of colubrid species and a couple species of lizards but nothing huge. In terms of biodiversity we're pretty low on the list. We have quite a varierty of birds and birds of prey. There are quite a few mamalian species here (bears, wolves, mountain goats, moose, deer, otters, seals, foxes, cougars, lynx, big horny or big horn rather sheep) just to name a few. Most of the snakes where I live are endangered however. Our endangered snakes are the common racer, the pacific gopher snake, the rubber boa, and the northern pacific rattlesnake. That's just in the area where I live. People here a very ignorant when it comes to reptiles and really to most animals. Most people here would just assume kill a snake here, so the need for public awareness is every great.


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## kevyn (Nov 28, 2003)

God I should use spell check.


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## Morelia_man (Nov 28, 2003)

> Oh sorry I have to say that the prices here in Qld of reptiles are the lowest I've seen in Australia.....That's what it should be....



ROAD TRIP!


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## Fuscus (Nov 28, 2003)

Bit envious about all the species of large mammals you got in Canada, here we just have Kangaroos (plus the introduced horses, buffalo, camels etc. And I almost ran over a wild donkey on night). But we do have very large lizards who will visit your campsite and share your tucker

http://150.101.58.70/thumbnails.php?id=Goanna_Lace_Monitor_Goanna&num=10

(Mental note : Never, Ever feed a wild goanna again!)

And parrots, lots of parrots. Almost every places in Oz has five or six species of parrots


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## Parko (Nov 28, 2003)

Kevyn did you say you have big horny sheep? What are the import regulations on them i wonder? :lol:


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## wattso (Nov 29, 2003)

Maybe N.Z imports them?  just kidding kiwi's!


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## kevyn (Nov 29, 2003)

Parko said:


> Kevyn did you say you have big horny sheep? What are the import regulations on them i wonder? :lol:




I didn't think Aussies were into sheep? :wink: My wife's dad is coming over form New Zealand for Christmas, we found this inflatable sheep that we're going to by him. It's called the Love Ewe.


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## Robert (Nov 30, 2003)

Love Ewe.
Long time.
5 dollar. 
Quite an appropiate name i reckon.


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