# herping perth hills western brown



## lizardman59 (Oct 22, 2011)

Herping in perth hills (Western brown) - YouTube

yeh me and 69blottfilms69 found this western brown in our herping vid we made today alot better vid then the last one 69blottfilms69 is getting a canon 550d and im getting a nikon d70 for christmas so expect alot better quality soon but still the quality is alright we might make a night herping vid soon and we should have a couple frog vids up in about a week summer s coming up so we are also looking for some monitors so expect alot more vid plz sub it would really help us out thanks alot


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah We went frog herping tonight VIDEO ZUPLOADING NOW!


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 23, 2011)

Well I'm no good at IDing blurry animal but isn't that another Parastua gouldiii? It sure as hell isn't a brown. 

And both of you need to learn some of the simplest rules of herping. Don't roll stuff with a stick, this can cause things to drop back down at bad angles injuring things underneath. Always stand on one side of an object, grab the other side and roll towards you keeping the side nearest you on the ground. Not only is this easier on the back but it gives a barrier in between you and any potential snake underneat. In this way the snake does not feel trapped and can quickly move off. 
Most importantly unless you are taking rubbish home with you *put everything back exactly where you found it *this mean logs, rocks, pieces of board or tin that you flip and the animals. Those micro-habitats can take time to develop into the best place for certain animals and by moving and not replacing them you are destroying them in seconds. 

Your videos are getting slightly better though, I'm keen to keep seeing them in the future.


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 23, 2011)

We did put everything back did you hear me say with the tile i said put it back?
and we rolled the rock with are hands
We used the stick on small stuff so we can stand put incase everything is there


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## waruikazi (Oct 23, 2011)

My youtube is playing up so i couldn't watch the vid. I'm sure it's a good one either way.

Couple of things but, i recon you boys should make yourselves some snake hooks and buy a good feild guide like this one A Complete Guide to Reptiles of Australia - Third Edition!

Keep it up mate.


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 23, 2011)

We have that book thanks
and why a snake hook?


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## waruikazi (Oct 23, 2011)

69blottfilms69 said:


> We have that book thanks
> and why a snake hook?



I reccomend you flick through it and get familiar with the snakes in your area and how to ID them correctly. 

hooks are so you stop using big lumps of clumsy wood! You shouldn't be touching the snakes you find under most circumstances, i use my hook more for lifting things to look underneath them so i don't have to stick my fingers in places i can't see.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 23, 2011)

At 0:13 you flip a rock and it doesn't go back. 

No need to use a stick on small stuff in case something is there, if you are careful and role it towards you and don't just dump it back down on the animal you'll be fine.

I definitely suggest you familiarise yourself with the reptiles in your area and learn to ID them better but I would suggest the book Reptiles and Frogs in the Bush South Western Australia. By the way most the frogs in your frog video are Litoria adelaidensis.


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## Snowman (Oct 23, 2011)

Brian Bush's Snakes Harmful & Harmless - Dugite

Can you really tell from that blurry footage that's its not a juvie dugite geckphotographer?


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## Niall (Oct 23, 2011)

Nice find on the Gould's Hooded Snake.
Great little snakes and easy to handle (I didn't just say that).

The day you guys find a Gwardar, you will know it is a Gwardar!
They are fast moving and can be really hard to photograph when disturbed.
If you guys are out near the Yanchep area anytime, let me know and I will show you a few spots where you will find a good amount of different species that are found in the Perth area.


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 23, 2011)

> Can you really tell from that blurry footage that's its not a juvie dugite geckphotographer?


I'd be 95+% sure. You see how at the front the dark patch it has a light band, the patch is solid black, and it has dark edged scales, these all strongly indicate it is not just a very unusually patterned juvenile Western Brown Snake. (That one linked still looks nothing like this it has a darker head but not solidly black like a Parasuta) The head shape of this individual also appears more like a Parasuta.


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks for a good comments and if you have a youtube channel please sub!
and me James i have only been into this for 2 weeks so im still learning lots.
Also in the videos Heath is lizardman59 who made the thread
we are more into lizards but we are trying to learn more about the snakes 
thnaks


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## Echiopsis (Oct 23, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Brian Bush's Snakes Harmful & Harmless - Dugite
> 
> Can you really tell from that blurry footage that's its not a juvie dugite geckphotographer?



Yes, the fact it looks absolutely nothing like a mengdeni was my first clue.

Also, Western Brown is commonly used to refer to Gwardar, not Dugites.


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## Snowman (Oct 23, 2011)

Obviously clearer than what I'm seeing on my phone then. I realize western browns aren't refered to as affinis. Just surprised that he would say it looks NOTHING like a brown. Which affinis is. All I can see is a blurry pic of a snake with a black head lol.


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## Echiopsis (Oct 23, 2011)

On a computer you can clearly see the hood, the pale spots forward of the eyes, the proportions and the colouration. 100% Parasuta gouldii.


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## Snowman (Oct 23, 2011)

Cool. Figured it would be clearer on a pc.


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## prettypython (Oct 23, 2011)

Isn't it ileagal to photograph and film wildlife in wa if you have to move things? I half remember someone getting busted for this... unless you have an apprprate licence?


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 23, 2011)

As far as I know that's all of Australia and only if you interfere with the animal. I.e. you can flip the rock but when you find it you can't touch it. The actions they take in their Frogging video however are illegal and if a Fauna authority wanted to they could be charged. I personally want to see that happen cause I think it would create a benchmark case that would allow younger people to be allowed to catch frogs, and such without there being a chance of prosecution. Which honestly they should be able to do.


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 26, 2011)

*Lizardman59*, it is great to see you getting out there and getting amongst it to learn. That is exactly what I did at your age just as often as I could. It is apparent from watching you that you are very much just starting out. So great to see you have taken on board what *Geckophotographer *and others have advised. It is valuable information from experienced herpers and should be listened to and carefully considered for the messages it convey.

My concern relates to what you are wearing. I am 57 and when I go out herping in thick bush I always wear thick woolly socks that pull up almost to my knees and long, thick baggy pants. I have never trodden on a snake to date, despite countless hours spent in the bush. However, I reckon the day I wear shorts will be the day that it happens. In the bush, I am on their turf and they have the advantage. I will always maintain that respect. Herping in sandy desert dune and open rock areas is a different kettle of fish and I may well don the shorts for such occasions. But long grass or bush trails in scrub or forest with undergrowth, there is not a choice in what I wear. 

You boys should take *Niall *up on his generous offer. Maybe even have a look at the WAHS herp society website. I would also look at getting a light-weight tripod if you are serious about videoing. They are not expensive or heavy.

As has been stated, on the computer *Snowman* you can clearly see the extent of the head markings, which differ from juvenile browns. You can also make out the individual scales are edged in black which forms a fine reticulum, typical of _P. gouldii_ but not _Pseudonaja_ species. 

Cheers,
Blue


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 26, 2011)

I ware jeans high top shoes but Lizardman5 my mate always wears shorts ill be sure to tell him
and the frogs are in my yard in my dam i did't harm any.

So i can flip rocks and look for stuff
But i can't touch it
What if its a thicktail or marble geckos not even a little handle?
And yeah i DON'T TOUCH SNAKES AND ANY ROCKS I MOVE I PUT BACK!


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## Bluetongue1 (Oct 27, 2011)

By the letter of the law you are not allowed to touch it as that is considered inteferring with wildlife. Many photographers do so in order to get a good photo. Just be aware that if you are being observered by a ranger at the time, you could get into strife. Being young, I would say they would probably let you off with a warning but there is no guarantee of that. It is up to you whether you wish to take that risk. 

I was herping in the days before regulations and I would often remove whatever was under a rock before replacing it and then let it go back under. Smaller rocks, where you can see what you are doing from the side can be gently lowered into place.

One last point that I forgot to mention earlier. Make sure you take some compression bandages with you go bush and that you know how to apply them, in case of snake bite. Some people, a very small percentage, react seriously to species like the Gould's Snake, so it is probably better to use the bandages for even a bite from that than be sorry.

Cheers,
Blue


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## Vegez (Oct 27, 2011)

Be very careful with the authorities with what you are doing. I know of a well-known herp that has been charged with things like picking up a DEAD snake off the road & throwing it off the road so it doesn't attract other animals. He made the mistake of videoing it, and the Vic DSE have charged him for it. Absolute disgrace.


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## moosenoose (Oct 27, 2011)

I was impressed the guys had the nous in wanting to put stuff back once they flipped it - kudos to you. 

So many times I've headed out into the bush only to find some idiot has gone through flipping logs and rocks and scattering them all over the place. Not only does it look untidy and disturbs the landscape, but more often than not the rocks and logs aren't placed back in such a way for critters to get good shelter under them. There is one spot in particular I go to and it was obvious to me that it had been picked through by other herpers, it took months (nearly a year in fact) for it to look half normal again. Anyone who has gone out with me knows I'm a stickler for leaving a place in the same condition I found it.


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah the part we go in where have found 3 goulds snakes
1 red gecko
3 line skink 

So let me get this straight
I can lift a rock is that ok?
i can't touch the reptile?
What if a bluey has ticks we removed them and put him back?


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 27, 2011)

You can lift a rock absolutely fine.
You can touch a reptile but it's a pretty good idea not to tell anybody you did. Just in case. The chances of being prosecuted at your age are minimal and I'd just love to see them try and do it cause I think it would get thrown out quickly. But just in case. Same with frogs.


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## 69blottfilms69 (Oct 27, 2011)

I think ill start maybe doing this
find a reptile under a rock film it and not touch in my video we only touched marble geckos and blueys
Should i get rid of them videos


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 27, 2011)

Yeah not touching them in the videos is the way to go. 

I think you can probably leave those videos if you just try and not touch them in future videos.


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## Bloomster (Oct 27, 2011)

You have learnt now what the regs are. Leave the videos you've Allready made.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710a using Tapatalk


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## Niall (Oct 27, 2011)

69blottfilms69 said:


> Yeah the part we go in where have found 3 goulds snakes
> 1 red gecko
> 3 line skink



Im guessing the Red Gecko was a Speckled Stone Gecko_ D. polyophthalmus

_






and the 3 line skink was a specie of Ctenotus?


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## GeckPhotographer (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm guessing the same Niall. In fact 69Blottfilms69 himself guessed it was D.polyphthalmus based on someones avatar of a red one.


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## Elapidae1 (Oct 27, 2011)

Polyops, damn them. Buggers to photograph.

I would like to know how you guys came to the conclusion it was a Western Brown.

I would recommend the book suggested earlier, Field Guide To Reptiles and Frogs of the Perth Region, it is specific to your area and will avoid the hassle of accidentally comparing ID's to snakes that don't even occur in that range.

Maybe take a point and shoot camera, I imagine using still images for cropping and zooming in on a subject for ID purposes would be easier than with video.

For example the pale spots forward of the eyes that Echiopsis pointed out earlier, while obvious to someone experienced such as himself, they would be easily missed by people less experienced. With a still shot you may have been able to zoom right in and make the comparrison yourself.


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## lizardman59 (Oct 28, 2011)

oh hay guys soz for all the trouble since the videos i have been wearing jeans full size socks and my high tops we are going to leave the bush though for maybe a couple weeks and go back and see if we can find anything else thanks guys yeh tit was a goulds hooded snake just been researching them and i researched the procedure of a snake bite and will bring pressure bandages as you recommended.

Cheers,Heath


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