# [MORPH] Morelia Milkshakes



## S&M Morelia (May 24, 2011)

Hey all, I was taking a few pictures of our mixed species morelia and thought I'd share.

First - 50% Diamond x Bredli - Female






Second - 50% Diamond x Jungle - Male





Third - 50% Diamond x Coastal - Male





Fourth - 50% Coastal x Darwin -Male (this picture was taken a few weks ago though)





Fifth - 50% Coastal x Darwin -Female (this picture was taken a few weks ago though)





Sixth - 50% Diamond x Jungle - Female (this picture was taken a number of months ago)





Hope you enjoy!

If you have nothing but hate for these and wish to degrade this thread, please send it via PM instead of posting it here.

Cheers.


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## Pinoy (May 24, 2011)

They look cool, did you breed these yourself?

Just out of curiosity, if you did breed these... 

If you crossed two types of morelia, would that have any affect on future clutches with pure pairings?

Not a hater, just curious 

What I do like about crossing snakes is you can never really pick what you're gonna get. For example, if you bred a classic Bredli to a Classic Bredli, you're most likely going to get a Classic Bredli. But with a Diamond cross Bredli, the variation is what interests me.


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## abnrmal91 (May 24, 2011)

Out if curiosity what temps do you keep your diamond cross snakes at. They look cool but just wondering as bredli is hot climate and diamond is cold. Do you just use a temp in between the two. Cheers Daniel


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## saximus (May 24, 2011)

The Coastal x Darwins look pretty interesting. Almost caramel Jag colouring. Do you have any adults or are these your first?


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## hrafna (May 24, 2011)

just a question, how do you find the temperments compared with the "pure" animals? also (please correct me if i am wrong) i believe diamonds are the only python that needs uv lighting, do you find this applicable with a diamond x? thanks for posting the pics!


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## S&M Morelia (May 24, 2011)

Pinoy said:


> If you crossed two types of morelia, would that have any affect on future clutches with pure pairings?
> 
> Not a hater, just curious


Not too sure exactly what you're asking here but will try and answer it as best I can.
What I think your asking is, if I put a male hybrid with a pure female 1 season then the following season paired the pure female with a pure male of the same sub-species, would that have any effect on what is produced?
If thats what your asking, my answer would be no, it shouldn't. 



abnrmal91 said:


> Out if curiosity what temps do you keep your diamond cross snakes at. They look cool but just wondering as bredli is hot climate and diamond is cold. Do you just use a temp in between the two. Cheers Daniel


Hi, thats a good question. What I do is provide the animal with a temp gradient as I would with any other species. Both animals need to get their body temps to a certain temp to live a healthy life.
All my animals get 32-34 degrees hot spot and the cool side is usually room temp (around 20-25 degrees)
As long as they can get away from the heat they are fine.
Of course this is just my way of doing things.



saximus said:


> The Coastal x Darwins look pretty interesting. Almost caramel Jag colouring. Do you have any adults or are these your first?


Those were bred by Jungle_Freak. PM myself or Jungle_Freak if you want more info.



hrafna said:


> just a question, how do you find the temperments compared with the "pure" animals?


 Temperments....I think each snake has its own temperment. So its a bit hard to comment on that one.


hrafna said:


> also (please correct me if i am wrong) i believe diamonds are the only python that needs uv lighting, do you find this applicable with a diamond x? thanks for posting the pics!


UV debate is still yet to be proven in my opinion.
Personally I provide natual light through windows and a main light in the room. None of this will provide UV and I haven't had a problem from not providing it.


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## Allan (May 24, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, what price tag would you puy on a DiamondXJungle? PythonRob stated that purebreds will always be more expensive, but even high quality animals are down in price atm, so there will always be the risk of a cross bred like that being bred back to a 100% Jungle or Diamond to create something spectacular and passed as a "pure" species. I think therein lies a risk.


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## D3pro (May 24, 2011)

hybrids are awesome...
I borrowed this pic of snakehouse... love these things


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## D3pro (May 24, 2011)

thats a 75% GTP Carpondro. Could be anything from a coastal to a jungle


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## SYNeR (May 24, 2011)

.. But does your milkshake bring all the boys to the yard? 

I'm quite fond of them, just as I'm fond of 'pure' animals too.


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## Pinoy (May 24, 2011)

S&M Morelia said:


> Not too sure exactly what you're asking here but will try and answer it as best I can.
> What I think your asking is, if I put a male hybrid with a pure female 1 season then the following season paired the pure female with a pure male of the same sub-species, would that have any effect on what is produced?
> If thats what your asking, my answer would be no, it shouldn't.



Pretty much what I was asking  Thanks.

I think it is cool that there are people doing it, I would love to see what a high yellow diamond or striped coastal thrown over a hypo Bredli would look like, but I doubt there's anyone willing to try it with snakes so beautiful already


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## CamdeJong (May 24, 2011)

Wow. Have they called that one Grapefruit? Amazing what they can do. I'll have to research it more, see how many lines it takes to achieve these traits.


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## matty_e888 (May 24, 2011)

Love the diamond x jungles! Awesome pics!


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## Defective (May 24, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> .. But does your milkshake bring all the boys to the yard?


 
im sure if i had the jungle X milkshake it would :lol::lol:


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## MR_IAN_DAVO (May 24, 2011)

I was not going to say anything on this thread, but I can't help myself.

Nice snakes Shaun, obviously not the best yet but you are working on a future breeding program with them to enable them to become more available to fanciers of pretty snakes.

There will allways be the purist & there will be the fancier, it is the same with all animals bred for the pet trade. Look at how far the genetics have come in the last 20 years with the bird trade. 

I will bet you that most breeders in the bird trade could not even tell you the original genetic background of a lot of the different coloured stuff on the market today. Maybe I am wrong, but where there is a demand for something brighter,bigger,better there will allways be a demand for something NEW. 

Anyway Good Luck
Ian


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## S&M Morelia (May 25, 2011)

Allan said:


> Just out of curiosity, what price tag would you puy on a DiamondXJungle? PythonRob stated that purebreds will always be more expensive, but even high quality animals are down in price atm, so there will always be the risk of a cross bred like that being bred back to a 100% Jungle or Diamond to create something spectacular and passed as a "pure" species. I think therein lies a risk.


I will not say what I paid for these crosses or what I would sell them for here, but if people are interested, you are more than welcome to PM me.
There is always a risk that people will sell things as something else for for a quick dollar. Not just in the reptile pet trade but in anything that involves money.
It does get harder to identify what species are in a particular animal once the percentage of one particular side of it increases over 75% and this is why we will be issuing a certificate stating whats in the animal and what was its background etc.
This mightn't keep everyone honest, but it is there and we are doing our best to make sure our animals are sold for what they are.



Pinoy said:


> Pretty much what I was asking  Thanks.
> 
> I think it is cool that there are people doing it, I would love to see what a high yellow diamond or striped coastal thrown over a hypo Bredli would look like, but I doubt there's anyone willing to try it with snakes so beautiful already


No worries. We do have something in the making for a hypo bredli, but not being a simple gentic trait, it will be a couple of generations before we reach our goal for that one. 



Octane said:


> I do appreciate the hybrid animals shown in this post and may even aquire a good looking hybrid in the future. They are not really my flavour at the moment the reason is I am still building a collection of pure animals. I still have numerous species which I find desireable on my wish list eg GTP, Antaresia Perthensis and if they become available space/funds permitting an Oenpelliensis.
> 
> I like the idea of preserving pure native type blood lines but also believe there is a place for the good looking morph in the captive environment.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post Octane. Your views are relevant and you can tell you have actually put thought into them.
As for your concern, yeah alot of people put up their best pictures of their projects, but this doesn't just apply to hybrids, take RP jungle projects, you always see the brightest most RP animal they produced, hardly ever the ones that didn't turn out as expected.
Please don't take that the wrong way, Im not having a stab at you, just stating what I have seen.



MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> I was not going to say anything on this thread, but I can't help myself.
> 
> Nice snakes Shaun, obviously not the best yet but you are working on a future breeding program with them to enable them to become more available to fanciers of pretty snakes.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ian.
There is definitely a place in the hobby for the mixer and the purist as you say.
I keep and breed both, and will always sell them for what they are.



Thanks everyone for your comments and concerns.
The more that is talked about the hybrids the more these concerns can be put to rest or at least bring the concerns down to a level where each person is a bit more at ease.


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## S&M Morelia (May 25, 2011)

Greenmad said:


> How is a jungle x diamond a intergrade.


 
Hi Ryan,
The way I see it, hybrids are matings of animals of different species.
Intergrade was a term given to matings of different sub-species .

I believe there is a difference between the term intergrade being used for the sub-species matings and the _natural intergrades_ such as the Port Mac locality carpet pythons.

Cheers.


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## killimike (May 25, 2011)

I had thought that 'intergrade' was used for naturally occurring populations where the edge of two species distribution overlaps, resulting one or more populations that contain a mix of alleles from both species. Any deliberate breeding done in captivity of two different species or subspecies would be a different thing.

Lambert linked to the FAQ, but actually go have a read of it. I don't think it gets it right when it gives examples, and it's not easy to read.


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## Jungle_Freak (May 25, 2011)

Heres some definitions to mull over .

Intergrade = In Australia this usually refers to the Carpet pythons from localities or intergrade zones that are found between known Diamond python and Carpet python populations. IE Port macs etc .

Intra Specific Intergrades = are usually the result of a breeding between different sub species either by captive breeding "Jungle x Diamond" or in nature where there is sub species overlap in their natural enviroment . .

OR when the same species from different localities are bred together .
IE NT Water python bred to a QLD Water python .

Technically all the above are Hybrids.

But in laymans definitions ?
Intergrades are port macs and Hybrids are Woma x Diamond type cross breeding .


Carpet python to Carpet python is still a Carpet python.
My 2 cents worth.


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## D3pro (May 25, 2011)

I agree with jungle freak. A carpet to carpet isn't a hybrid. And at the end of the day it's up to the individual to choose what he/she likes.


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## killimike (May 25, 2011)

zulu said:


> Port macs,kempsey dorrigo coffs harbour rainforest diamond etc, do male combat and the sydney diamond spilota spilotas dont,for me theres just carpets and diamonds.



The part behaviour plays in distinguishing species/populations is yet another facet of the debate, good point zulu. Still, there must be a reason that snakes in the middle have features of both species, but I have never bothered to find a proper study.



MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Very informative & calm, this thread has gone further than I thought it would.
> Well done S&M.



Agreed!


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## AM Pythons (May 25, 2011)

here are a few of the 14 jungle x coastal super stripes i breed this year...


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## S&M Morelia (May 26, 2011)

N.A.T.O said:


> S&M
> i just wanted to say how well your handling the thread,the thought and reason put
> into your answers is great & to see a breeder openly talking and taking questions it
> is good to see someone who can calmly, ethically,and knowledgeably answer not only
> ...


Thank Nato, I appreciate your kind comments and support.
PM sent.




MR_IAN_DAVO said:


> Very informative & calm, this thread has gone further than I thought it would.
> Well done S&M.


I agree Ian, this thread has turned out much better than I had hoped.



Jungle_Freak said:


> Heres some definitions to mull over .
> 
> Intergrade = In Australia this usually refers to the Carpet pythons from localities or intergrade zones that are found between known Diamond python and Carpet python populations. IE Port macs etc .
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for your input mate. You have explained it better than what I could have.
Cheers.



D3pro said:


> ... And at the end of the day it's up to the individual to choose what he/she likes.


Thats my point exactly. 
Not sure if I could do the GTP x Carpet though.
But like we've said, everyone has a choice and an opinion. 



AM Pythons said:


> here are a few of the 14 jungle x coastal super stripes i breed this year...


They look very nice, be sure to post some pictures as they grow mate.
The stripe looks pretty sweet.


Thanks everyone for their comments and concerns.
If anyone else has some pictures of their mixed morelia, feel free to put them up.


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## Kyro (May 27, 2011)

I have posted these recently, our Diamond x Bredli. Sorry for the quality I really should get some decent pic's of him.
He was bred by a guy in western Sydney.
I also have an rpm/jag coastal x darwin albino.


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## Kyro (May 27, 2011)

Thanks Bez, yeah he is that yellow in real life. He was appparently the result of a high yellow diamond crossed with a classic bredli.


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## S&M Morelia (May 27, 2011)

Very nice Kyro. Good to see a few out there being shown.


Here's is another couple pictures of our Diamond x Jungle male (these pictures have been posted elsewhere so some may have seen it before)
Yeah I'd have to say he's my Fav.


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## AM Pythons (May 27, 2011)

here is a 'spotted' morelia i breed from a coastal x jungle this year.


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## Jeffa (Jun 10, 2011)

Great thread and beautiful snakes, well done.

I live in Q.L.D would it be possible for me to breed a gtp and say a jag legally? The whole hybrid/intergrade thing confuses me.
Would the EPA or QPWS come knocking on my door and if people wanted to buy the offspring what would I put on paper? 
All hypothetical and I am not putting any negative energy towards this thread, just a question.
Hope none get offended.


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

Ok firstly I really like your hybrids, I have nothing against hybrids, in the future I will hybridize my own. 

However.



> Hey all, I was taking a few pictures of our mixed species morelia and thought I'd share.


No you were taking pictures of a few mixed subspecies of Morelia. All of these are the same species. In one of your earlier posts you did say _Morelia spilota spilota X Morelia bredli _This is wrong. They are both species _Morelia spilota_. The difference is in the subspecies name for both which is extremely different to a difference in the species.

This is very important to me as it is where I define the line of an acceptable hybrid. Those at a level higher than intra-specific hybrid I do not agree with the breeding of. 


> At least your trying to be ethical about it, but get the terminology right they aren't hybrids as such.


They are hybrids. Realistically every animal bred in captivity that is not a clone bred back with the original animal is a hybrid. This is because hybridism truly should be defined as two animals of different genetic identity (to any level) that are not breeding in a natural setting (i.e. the wild). 
What they are is intra-specific hybrids. 

Integrades which have been mentioned (even if not by you) are not hybrids they are naturally occurring snakes which genetic identity contains characteristics commonly associated with two distinct subspecies (Or in rare cases species which would be a hybrid intergrade) especially if these characteristics are phenotypically displayed. I can also accept that what would 'technically' be a hybrid between two integrades of the same relative geographic area bred in captivity can acceptably be called an intergrade. 



> Heres some definitions to mull over .
> 
> Intergrade = In Australia this usually refers to the Carpet pythons from localities or intergrade zones that are found between known Diamond python and Carpet python populations. IE Port macs etc .
> 
> ...


I respectfully have to disagree with these definitions. 

Your first definition for integrade does not define what an intergrade is but gives an example of what one is, an example that I agree is correct. 

Your second definition should be intra-specific hybrids not intra-specific integrades. Also this should not say animals where the 'borders of animals overlap'. Integrades in nature are not on a line where one side is one subspecies is on and the other side is the other. They are a broad nearly undefinable band in which many levels of variation occur. 

Also a water python (Qld) to a water python (NT) would not be an integrade it would be an intra-subspecific hybrid of intergeographical area. 


This is how I define things and I agree there is reasonable area for variation within definition but it should still be relatively similar to this. 



All that said and done those are some lovely _Morelia _hybrids I can only hope they keep getting better and that as they do those concerns already raised are addressed properly.



Edit: Just one thing I forgot to mention is that if you were X breeding withwhat is currently recognized as _Morelia spilota imbricata_ I would have a problem with it as I recognize these should be a species of their own.


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## matt1084 (Jun 10, 2011)

the word Viable is a big one you missed. if they produce fertile offspring go for it. 
There is no argument that the snake may escape and breed with wild populations, If this is so bad people should only be allowed to keep animals from their current locality. If a pure Darwin python got out it would still breed with coastals for example and oh would you look at that babies.


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## GeckPhotographer (Jun 10, 2011)

> the word Viable is a big one you missed. if they produce fertile offspring go for it.
> There is no argument that the snake may escape and breed with wild populations, If this is so bad people should only be allowed to keep animals from their current locality. If a pure Darwin python got out it would still breed with coastals for example and oh would you look at that babies.


Different species can produce viable offspring thus I did not miss it I choose to leave it out.
In fact you missed it in your post.


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## S&M Morelia (Jun 10, 2011)

Wow, what a post geckPhotographer..

What you are saying is bredli's are a sub-species of morelia spilota? I have always thought of bredli's as being a species of morelia but not apart of the diamond/carpet species/sub-species.
Can you link me to some papers where I can read up on the this. PM will do, that way this thread can stay on topic and not drift off into another direction.

Thanks


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## Grylls (Jun 10, 2011)

Hey guys,

Don't know of this has been asked but these are different from the jags/rpm right?

Does that mean they won't have any neuro issues?? 

I wouldn't mind owning any snake as long as it didn't do all that crazy neuro stuff. It's hard enough to watch that on YouTube let alone in your own enclosure.


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## Jeffa (Jun 10, 2011)

Nice theories people, but has anyone actually got any results from the law or legislation as opposed to the opinions of hobbists thoughts on the matter? say what you want but the legalaties is what matters the most.


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## S&M Morelia (Jun 10, 2011)

Hey guys.
In relation to the Jag/RPMs they are completely different.
I cannot comment on the neuro issue as my jag isn't showing any sign at all from hatching to now (nearly 2 years old).

Some people think that jags are a mixed up morelia to get their colours and patterns. This is not true. They have a gene that is inheritable that causes the incredible patterning and colours (like a gene that causes albinism except in jags case, being co-dominant instead of recessive). 

So hybrids do not get this unless they are paired with a jag.

I could go into more depth about this, but Like i said in an earlier post, this will take the thread into a different direction. If you want more info about it, or want to chat about it, you're more than welcome to PM me.

Cheers.


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## NickM (Jun 11, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> you did say _Morelia spilota spilota X Morelia bredli _This is wrong. They are both species _Morelia spilota_. The difference is in the subspecies name for both which is extremely different to a difference in the species.



This statement is absolutely not true. I cant understand why some people still believe that _bredli_ is a subspecies of _spilota_.

Lets put this to rest: bredli have *NEVER* been a subspecies of _spilota_, ever. The species was first named in 1981 by Graham Gow as _*Morelia bredli*_. 

For some inexplicable reason a few authors published works in which they referred to them as a subspecies of _spilota_, but this was never justified and no reasons or evidence was ever given for this action. _Bredli_ are Vastly different in almost every charecter of scalation when compared to carpets. They are also completely isolated from all carpet python populations, and have been for a very long time.

The status of _Morelia bredli_ was also definitively demonstrated twice with genetic analysis in (Taylor, 2005) and ( Rawlings et al., 2008)

The later paper also calculated a molecular clock whoch estimated the divergence of the _M. bredli_ lineage from the _M. spilota_ lineage at 10 MYA.

_M. bredli _is the sister species to the _M. spilota _complex and though closely related it is not nor has it ever been a subspecies of _spilota._


You are correct with regard to _imbricata_ which has been demonstrated to be a full species, equally as divergent from _spilota_ as _bredli_.

Nick


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 11, 2011)

matt1084 said:


> just to **** stir but breeding different Carpet python localities is the same as a person from China breeding with a white person from Australia. They are the same species but with different visual characteristics. Are we saying this should not happen??? Im not. Im a lumper and if they can breed and produce offspring that are viable and healthy then go for it.


 
This is a good point Matt , Polygenic inheritance is responcible for the visual external charactoristics in humans . 

Polygenics is also responcible for Carpet pythons wide assortment of colours and patterns in the wild .
Of course the acception are mutations or morphs that can be Co Dom or Recessive etc etc ,,.

Just because a species has a wide variation in appearance does not mean they cannot or should not breed together etc
IE As in humans with the different geographical populations where height ,skin, hair colour and facial appearance vary .

Also IMO that goes for captive breeding of Carpet pythons in the Morelia Spilota Complex .Diamonds Spilota ,McDowelli ,Cheynie ,Variegata, Metcalfei, . 
The only restriction with breeding different sub species of Carpet pythons is each states regulations and definitions.

Morelia Bredli is a seperate isolated species and so should Morelia spilota Imbracata be recognised as a isolated seperate species in latest DNA testing .
Roger









Originally Posted by *GeckPhotographer* 

 
you did say _Morelia spilota spilota X Morelia bredli _This is wrong. They are both species _Morelia spilota_. The difference is in the subspecies name for both which is extremely different to a difference in the species.




NickM said:


> This statement is absolutely not true. I cant understand why some people still believe that _bredli_ is a subspecies of _spilota_.
> 
> Lets put this to rest: bredli have *NEVER* been a subspecies of _spilota_, ever. The species was first named in 1981 by Graham Gow as _*Morelia bredli*_.
> 
> ...


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## NickM (Jun 11, 2011)

I dont like human racial group comparison because it gets very political and sensitive very quickly. But since it has been brought up here is why it is not a valid comparison:

The divergences between these snakes are old, often measured in millions or tens of millions of years, by contrast the divergences seen in human racial groups are extremely recent, having arisen only in the last 50,000 years or so.

All non African humans are essentially the same genetically, the large differences is appearance are not indicative of any significant genetic changes. Its takes very little time to change pigmentation, hair type etc. So someone of Chinese ancestry and someone from Germany are essentially the same genetically, regardless of their outward appearance. All non Africans are the descendants of a very small group that left Africa, hence the greater genetic diversity in Africa and the lack of diversity seen outside Africa.

The only human population that is different in any significant way are native Africans who's population is the oldest and ancestral to all others, which can be seen reflected in the greater diversity seen in their genome. 

So there is not necessarily a correlation between differences in genotype and differences in phenotype.

Nick


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## Jungle_Freak (Jun 11, 2011)

NickM said:


> I dont like human racial group comparison because it gets very political and sensitive very quickly. But since it has been brought up here is why it is not a valid comparison:
> 
> The divergences between these snakes are old, often measured in millions or tens of millions of years, by contrast the divergences seen in human racial groups are extremely recent, having arisen only in the last 50,000 years or so.
> 
> ...


 

Hi Nick ,
My comparison was in relation too polygenic traits only and how with each generation ? polygenic traits are expressed visually ?
The external appearance = polygenic genetics and these are inherited within each new generation.
cheers Roger

*Polygenic inheritance*, also known as *quantitative* or *multifactorial inheritance* refers to inheritance of a phenotypic characteristic (trait) that is attributable to two or more genes, or the interaction with the environment, or both. Unlike monogenic traits, polygenic traits do not follow patterns of Mendelian inheritance (separated traits). Instead, their phenotypes typically vary along a continuous gradient depicted by a bell curve.[1]
An example of a polygenic trait is human skin color. Many genes factor into determining a person's natural skin color, so modifying only one of those genes changes the color only slightly. Many disorders with genetic components are polygenic, including autism, cancer, diabetes and numerous others. Most phenotypic characteristics are the result of the interaction of multiple genes.


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## EastCoastChondro (Jun 11, 2011)

There will always be pure lines in Aus in my opinion there are some hard core purist here and some hard core morph lovers so both will breed what they love which is good. Pure lines are really easy to come by in aus at the moment and i imagine it will stay that way.


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## AM Pythons (Jun 11, 2011)

this was taken 2 weeks ago... when she sheds next ill take some more...

i have ones with better stripes, but no peppering like this girl..


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## AM Pythons (Jun 11, 2011)

this is the male i will breed her with in a few years...
they are a cross between my tiger jungle male & my striped coastal female...

sorry about crappy phone pics... i need a new camera,mine died...


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## AM Pythons (Jun 11, 2011)

a better look at the colour of these..


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## S&M Morelia (Jul 8, 2011)

They look Good AM Pythons. Keep updating us with their progress.

Here are a few new pictures of ours.

50% Darwin X Coastal Male






50% Darwin x Coastal Female





50% Diamond X Jungle Female





And a quick one of our Caramel Jag getting cosy with our Diamond X Bredli (She's a huge ****)


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## Ninja (Jul 8, 2011)

Great looking pythons
Here is my Diamond x Bredli
View attachment 208436


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## S&M Morelia (Jul 8, 2011)

ok I really don't want this thread to turn into an PRO v CON Hybrid debate.
As they always end up with the thread being closed and ruined for everyone.

If there are any more issues with this thread that you have, you are more than welcome to PM me about it like I said in my first post.

Thanks.


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Jul 9, 2011)

Here is my little monster, he was given to me because he wouldnt eat.That was a couple of years ago.
[video=youtube;zHmsEvGpKZ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHmsEvGpKZ8[/video]


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## Jungle_Freak (Jul 11, 2011)

What i find amazing are these negitive hyperthetical dooms day predictions about hybrid carpet pythons killing off our pure reptile heritage.

Save it for a hyperthetical debating thread or start one of your own but do me a favour stay out of this one .

Roger

Heres a caramel coastal x darwin carpet python .
I really like how these are turning out .






I cant wait to see what a caramel albino carpet morph will look like.


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## Colin (Jul 11, 2011)

S&M Morelia said:


> ok I really don't want this thread to turn into an PRO v CON Hybrid debate.
> As they always end up with the thread being closed and ruined for everyone.
> 
> If there are any more issues with this thread that you have, you are more than welcome to PM me about it like I said in my first post.
> ...



agreed.. no more of the off topic arguing in this thread.. if you want to discuss these hybrid issues please private message the thread poster as he's requested.


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## FusionMorelia (Jul 11, 2011)

Jungle_Freak said:


> What i find amazing are these negitive hyperthetical dooms day predictions about hybrid carpet pythons killing off our pure reptile heritage.
> 
> Save it for a hyperthetical debating thread or start one of your own but do me a favour stay out of this one .
> 
> ...



that thing is a ripper Roger, how old is it mate, looks lil 


Nato


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## S&M Morelia (Sep 1, 2011)

Here's a quick picture of the DiamondBredli with the Caramel RPM/Jag.


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## tyson001 (Sep 5, 2011)

just a question in what states can you breed hybrids or crosses


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## S&M Morelia (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks for the comments.

Tyson001, check your state's licencing rules and regulations (should come with your licence) and you should be able find out 

Here's recent shot of the Diamond x Bredli that has been mated by our Caramel jag.


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## S&M Morelia (Oct 12, 2011)

They are still going for it.






And a shot of the Diamond x Jungle male after his shed yesterday.


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## dihsmaj (Oct 17, 2011)

Oscar90 said:


> just a question jungle x diamond would be same as caucasion x asian ect just different morphs of the same species?


I think so.


----------



## Colin (Oct 18, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> Why can't this thread be photos of 'Morelia Milkshakes' and not of a constant argument about hybrids?



I agree.. these debates have been going on for years and will go on for years.. both sides have their points but I dont think it will be resolved anytime soon. 

personally Im tired of the DEJA MOO (the same old BS) lets keep the thread on track please and leave any nasty comments out of it.. if you dont like the thread thats ok, go to another one that you do.. thank you


----------



## Jay84 (Oct 19, 2011)

Here is an updated pic of my Caramel Coastal x Darwin from Roger -


----------



## S&M Morelia (Nov 24, 2011)

Here's a quick vid to bump this thread back to the top 

Dr Worm
[video=youtube_share;FcV7nbSnAAw]http://youtu.be/FcV7nbSnAAw[/video]


----------



## DeadCricket (Nov 25, 2011)

I also would be very interested in learning the husbandry requirements of these x's. 

Genetically shouldn't it work that 50% of the diamond x's should need uv? Will this produce possible het for requirements like uv? 

Things like this always make me want to study genetics. But then something else comes along and I want to study something else. Sigh, too many choices.

But, back on topic; are you doing any research into the requirements of these animals? The temperature difference certainly creates an interesting question. I guess trial and error is the way to work it out.

They could be simmilar to intergrades. Do you know of the locale for the parents? Without the time to evolve im not sure that a pairing of two snakes that had completely different locales would just pop out like an intergrade?

Sooo many questions.

Thank you for amusing my brain for today


----------



## Khagan (Nov 25, 2011)

DeadCricket said:


> Genetically shouldn't it work that 50% of the diamond x's should need uv? Will this produce possible het for requirements like uv?



Diamonds requiring uv is a myth. While supplying uv can't hurt, it has been proven to do nothing in stopping DPS as people have had animals still get it while being outside and having access to the sun.


----------



## S&M Morelia (Nov 25, 2011)

DeadCricket, as Khagan said, UV for diamonds is a myth in my opinion too.
But when it comes to husbandry if you give an animal a good temp gradient in their enclosure they will thrive.

All my animals get the same gradient and I find that each one will usually "bask" in different distances from the heat source.
If they feel too warm they'll go to the cooler side and vise versa.

Anyways, thanks for the comments and likes people!
if anyone else wants to share, post them up!


----------



## DeadCricket (Nov 25, 2011)

Do you find that some of the diamond x's spend the majority of their time in a different spot in the heat gradient than others? Sorry about all the questions. I should mention that these are gorgeous snakes and I'm very interested in their progress, just trying to make the husbandry details work in my head.


----------



## Kyro (Nov 27, 2011)

I havn't noticed any major differences regarding preferred temps with our diamond x bredli to any of our other pythons. I offer a good temp gradient & that seems to keep him happy. One noticable difference between him & the pure bredli is that he loves climbing & 90% of the time he's hanging on his branch.


----------



## S&M Morelia (Nov 28, 2011)

DeadCricket said:


> Do you find that some of the diamond x's spend the majority of their time in a different spot in the heat gradient than others? Sorry about all the questions. I should mention that these are gorgeous snakes and I'm very interested in their progress, just trying to make the husbandry details work in my head.


They find a basking spot that suits them and when they're "done" they'll move somwhere else.
Husbandy is no different to any other _morelia spilota ssp_.



Kyro said:


> One noticable difference between him & the pure bredli is that he loves climbing & 90% of the time he's hanging on his branch.


I have actually found this to be the same with my DxB. I keep her in a 4x4x2 enclosure and have top heat so she climbs to bask even though I supply belly heat for her while she's gravid.



viciousred said:


> There all so pretty!


Thanks


----------



## DeadCricket (Nov 28, 2011)

I was more just curious if a percentage of the x hatchies would like to climb more than the rest or a if half preferred to be warmer than the other half sort of thing.

Thanks for your answers though. Good luck, great snakes


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Nov 28, 2011)

I know it's taboo... but I've always been curious as to what personality traits would come out of Jagphondro projects? Also how do they go with the mating process, do you introduce a carpet to the humid living area of a GTP, or do you introduce a GTP to the drier living area of a carpet?


----------



## sunny_girl (Nov 28, 2011)

This may have already been asked and answered, apologies if it has, but what is the general temperament of the Diamond x Jungles? They look amazing


----------



## Kyro (Nov 28, 2011)

Might be a good question for one of the US or UK forums Wayne, i'm curious to know too.
DeadCricket I didn't breed mine so sorry I can't answer that question.


----------



## Colin (Nov 29, 2011)

rpm-jag het albino's hatched 13-11-2011. the one in the middle has a bit of a skull head pattern


----------



## S&M Morelia (Nov 29, 2011)

DeadCricket said:


> I was more just curious if a percentage of the x hatchies would like to climb more than the rest or a if half preferred to be warmer than the other half sort of thing.
> 
> Thanks for your answers though. Good luck, great snakes


I haven't bred any myself either.
But that said, I have found alot of my animals do both if given the resources.
Morelia sp & ssp all have aboreal nature so I think its only as they get older that they tend to be more terrestrial.



Jungleman said:


> I know it's taboo... but I've always been curious as to what personality traits would come out of Jagphondro projects? Also how do they go with the mating process, do you introduce a carpet to the humid living area of a GTP, or do you introduce a GTP to the drier living area of a carpet?


I'd be curious as to what happens here as well.
I would assume (oh there it is again haha) that the higher the percentage of GTP blood there is the more it would behave like a GTP.
Maybe if any of the overseas members see this post, they could comment.



sunny_girl said:


> This may have already been asked and answered, apologies if it has, but what is the general temperament of the Diamond x Jungles? They look amazing


Temperment of the animals is the same as most other species, some are placid and others are angry little bastards.
That said, only some of my animals have bitten me when I've been careless when they are hungry.




Col, those hets look awesome!
Should grow into some fine looking animals.


----------



## S&M Morelia (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok, got some new pictures to add.

Here are our Caramel Hypos.
Siblings to your one Jay.

Male









Female


----------



## Colin (Dec 9, 2011)

not a recent pic so will get a few pics of my caramels on the weekend.. 
they're looking pretty good with great colour now.. and huge


----------



## Jay84 (Dec 9, 2011)

Colin, are yours the Darwin x coastals too? From Roger?


----------



## Colin (Dec 9, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> Colin, are yours the Darwin x coastals too? From Roger?



no mine are the SXR/mark sim line from simon stone

crappy pic but recent (on w/e) of caramel male at post 247


----------



## Jay84 (Dec 12, 2011)

Finally got some updated pics of my caramel on the weekend. I am loving how his colours are developing, especially on his first third.


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Dec 12, 2011)

Fresh out of the egg...
View attachment 229790
View attachment 229791


----------



## nervous (Dec 22, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> Finally got some updated pics of my caramel on the weekend. I am loving how his colours are developing, especially on his first third.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Dec 22, 2011)

*

Heres a few of mine from one of my clutches that had 2 different sires, a jungle RPM/jag and caramel coastal were both put over the female albino. The result were dual sires for this clutch ...
So all of these are 100% hets for albino.
Theres is a het jag and a few het caramel darwins and some normal hets.








*


----------



## Colin (Jan 2, 2012)

cant remember if I posted this before.. ugly mongrel jungle jag after first feed  he's had quite a few feeds since this pic.. will get some more pics after next shed and also of the albino jag


----------



## Colin (Jan 2, 2012)

different clutch.. I like the grey looking one


----------



## Colin (Jan 19, 2012)

Red-Ink said:


> Post pics of the "mongrel" as many times as you want mate, in fact one pic every time it sheds would be nice



will get some soon.. there are plenty of these and they look absolute killers and better than I expected.. also the siblings have surprised me.. there are far more beautiful looking snakes than ugly mongrels  and some have full stripes with even circle patterns on the sides and some have train trackson both sides some habe rectangles that are even running down both sides.. some are banded etc.. Im keeping a few of these myself for my own projects they look that good.. 

they are sub species crosses and some dont like this which is fair enough, i understand their reasons and respect that but will be labeling mine exactley what they are and recommending they be used in jag and morph projects and kept seperate from pure lines to anyone who buys one or who gets them for free with a jag purchase. and will recommend strongly people continue labeling these and always keep this situation known so they are not mistaken as pure. some could pass as pure julatten jungles from the look and colour

these are all from a SXR (one of simons best proven breeding males) MD jag x some julatten females of mine..

will gets some pics of these soon..


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (Feb 4, 2012)

Jungle Jag x Albino Darwin


----------



## Colin (Feb 5, 2012)

albino jag





couple of pics of three B&W jungle jags


----------



## cement (Feb 5, 2012)

S&M Morelia said:


> Here's a quick vid to bump this thread back to the top
> 
> Dr Worm
> [video=youtube_share;FcV7nbSnAAw]http://youtu.be/FcV7nbSnAAw[/video]



Is it the yellow that you specifically breed for?


----------



## Scleropages (Feb 5, 2012)

A mate gave me a Jag , shes a bit twitchy but should still feed , Shes got jungle / MD and Coastal in her , LOL


Mizz F resting..







Mizz F being twitchy:






And if anyone has issues with me keeping a twitchy Jag alive perhaps they should remember that everyone is only a car crash away from having nuro ,


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Feb 5, 2012)

Good one Paul.
Heres one that shed and fed today.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Feb 5, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> Anyway this jag seems to be Vegan... loves her cherry tomatoes....




Is she seriously eating tomato? LOL.


----------



## IgotFrogs (Feb 5, 2012)

Keep it nice guys IF you don't like it DON'T post or even Open this Thread .....


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Feb 5, 2012)

citrus said:


> can you guys pm each other no one really wants to hear it.
> anyway back on topic those caramel x darwins are gorgous are any het albino? has anyone breed albino caramels in aus yet?




No caramel albinos yet as far as i know.
But here is one of my caramel darwins 100% het for albino.


----------



## Colin (Feb 5, 2012)

nice roger.. 
heres' a couple of jag siblings.. from pure albino male x jag het albino female.. these are all from this clutch and are het albino.. I'm keeping that orange looking kind of patternless one to see how it turns out.. may turn out normal looking but may turn out interesting so will keep it and see how it goes.. 
















for comparison heres a pure het albino Im keeping from albino x het albino
I really like this one too.. but the sibling hets aren't bad either  each to there own..


----------



## Colin (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## Colin (Feb 9, 2012)




----------



## Colin (Feb 10, 2012)

mocca chocolate shake


----------



## 000JAG (Feb 16, 2012)

Hey everyone,
I am new to Jag's so was wondering how do you go about licensing these jags? Meaning i have my Vic License but how do you go about discribing your snake in terms of the license requirements? 

If they are crosses then that gets a little confusing doesnt it?


----------



## Colin (Feb 16, 2012)

000JAG said:


> Hey everyone,
> I am new to Jag's so was wondering how do you go about licensing these jags? Meaning i have my Vic License but how do you go about discribing your snake in terms of the license requirements?
> 
> If they are crosses then that gets a little confusing doesnt it?



most are morelia sub species crosses so in the NSW DECC species list the code 2625 morelia spilota unknown can be used for them. 

when I originally obtained some from SXR in South Australia this code was used on all import applications which were validated by the NSW DECC and they had no problem issuing import permits with this code.


----------



## deebo (Feb 16, 2012)

what are they listed as in Qld does anyone know?


----------



## 000JAG (Feb 16, 2012)

Looking at the VIC DPI codes there is only one option "Carpet or Diamond Python - Morelia Spilota" which is under schedule 3.

Thanks


----------



## D3pro (Feb 16, 2012)

David Evans said:


> what are they listed as in Qld does anyone know?



I list mine as "_morelia spilota sp_" common name "carpet python"


----------



## MrSpike (Feb 16, 2012)

Thought I'd throw a few pics up, no milkshakes in these snakes just some high hopes for breeding


----------



## rockett85 (Feb 17, 2012)

Here are a couple of pics of my 2 jags - Yellow male MD JAG X Jungle bred by Neville (The Devil) and the other is bred by Ben at AUST MORELIAS I am pretty sure it is also MD JAG X Julatten jungle. Hope you like the pics, have some exciting pairings happening for the MD JAG x Jungle this year. Fingers crossed!!


----------



## S&M Morelia (Feb 18, 2012)

Some awesome animals being shown here guys. Kepp up the good work.
Sorry I haven't been on here for a bit and noticed a few posts directed to me so just going to reply to those.



cement said:


> Is it the yellow that you specifically breed for?


It's not just the tipping yellow that I'll be breeding for, but also the jungle yellows.
The rosettes on a Diamond python are usually very white. I want to turn that white into a yellow while also making the "rosettes" into more of a random patterning.
But I don't have to justify any of my projects or what I want to do with my HOBBY to you.



N.A.T.O said:


> ok shaun... where's our updates on s&m's milkshakes i know you have to be sitting on a few hold backs



Sorry nato, no milkshake holdbacks this season....the Diamond X Bredli girl passed away after holding onto a clutch of slugs for a bit too long.
Was being treated for an infection for the last few weeks and wasn't getting any better and was progressivly getting worse.
Unfortunate but these things happen with living organisms.
Was a bit of a kick in the guts to be honest.


----------



## Colin (Feb 20, 2012)

albino jag and het albino sibling 
both hatched on 13-11-2011 feeding and growing well


----------



## sara_sabian (Feb 21, 2012)

Rocket85 that white jag is a stunner!
Here's a couple shots of one taken earlier today, bred by Neville. I believe she would be a sibling to the other jag you posted Rocket.


----------



## Colin (Feb 23, 2012)

having a snooze


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## Colin (Mar 1, 2012)

thats a huge size difference den  looking good too


----------



## Mo Deville (Mar 18, 2012)

This is a pic I found on google a 75% carpondro, I can't wait til these become popular, this thing is awsome, carpondro's are the best hybrids, I really have grown fond of them!!!!:shock:


----------



## Khagan (Mar 19, 2012)

Ugly mongrel lol sib that recently shed.


----------



## Shadow86 (Mar 19, 2012)




----------



## Kurto (Mar 19, 2012)

Sweet Julatten D3 

Heres a nice little 66% J.J.


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## Scleropages (Mar 20, 2012)

Jags don't eat cherry tomatos , lol
She was just sniffing it..
Her nuro seems to have gotten better ( I don't breed Jags or really want any more apart from this one)
She Strikes and even gets the food now.. and can hold her head up without twitching 













D3pro said:


> Jullatten Jungle Jag



How cool is the tail pattern on that jullaten X


----------



## dannydee (Mar 20, 2012)

This is my coastal x jungle. She is the best snake I've ever owned and can't fault her in anyway.


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## Colin (Mar 21, 2012)

Julatten Jungle Jag (cross)






Julatten Jungle Jag (cross)






Albino Jag


----------



## Scleropages (Mar 21, 2012)

Colin said:


> Julatten Jungle Jag (cross)
> 
> 
> 
> Julatten Jungle Jag (cross)



You recon why will go grey and not white?


----------



## Colin (Mar 22, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> You recon why will go grey and not white?



you mean do I reckon white will go grey and not white? when there older?

I think the white will stay white but it remains to be seen when these are older. two of ones in that old pic are really white now with grey pattern edged in black. the third one (see the first ptic in my post) is true to colour now but should get whiter as it hatched later than the other two in a different clutch so is a bit behind in colour. that first one comes from a white julatten female that still is pretty white at over 6+ years old. Ive posted her in the jungle thread several times. you probably know the one I mean.


----------



## Fishbone (Mar 23, 2012)

D3, that Julatten jag cross is awesome! From what I've seen here, and grant it that we don't have any true Julatten locale animals to work with in the states, but when a black and white or "ivory" jungle is crossed with a jag, they eventually tend to yellow a bit, but nowhere near the normal jag colouring, more of a cream look. Here is a 2011 girl I have, her lineage is very sketchy, she was produced from two parents whos lineage is unknown, a black and white jungle dam, and a very "axanthic" looking jag sire. 

Here is a pic from the begining of December...






And here is a pic from last week...






She isn't quite as yellow as she appears there, that seems to be from the sunlight. But you can see a yellowish tinge starting to come in, and the jungle parent was pretty much black and white. Of course here, there is almost certainly some recent yellow lineage in any black and white jungle, as compared to there, with a true julatten, there could be 100x times that distance from any yellow lineage, as I understand there are no yellow cheynei from that part. So it is not really an even comparison. I plan on breeding her to an ivory jungle in a few years, to hopefully add to the black and white jag appearence. And D3, if you don't mind the opinion from a yankee up over, I would think it would be awesome to put that male back to a nice banded Julatten. I may actually drool a little over the idea 

And what is that purple marked viridis/carpondro neo on your avatar? Is that a real picture?

Dave


----------



## Khagan (Mar 27, 2012)

This boy bred by Colin just shed tonight .


----------



## Shadow86 (Apr 13, 2012)

some new pics


----------



## swan91 (Apr 13, 2012)

Shadow86 said:


> some new pics


ohhh sexy!


here is my boy



i like the rainbow sheen on his head in this photo


----------



## Jay84 (Apr 14, 2012)

Here is my new Jungle JAG.


----------



## Colin (Apr 14, 2012)

SpilotaFreak78 said:


> She has a mix of American Jag blood (don't ask me about the Sire, I know as much as what I'm posting here) and her Dam was a Jungle Jag x Darwin Het.



so the sire was american jag bloodline? Interesting stuff  If you dont mind saying who sold you this jag?


----------



## SpilotaFreak78 (Apr 14, 2012)

Colin said:


> so the sire was american jag bloodline? Interesting stuff  If you dont mind saying who sold you this jag?


Someone on here, but I won't say who unless they want to reveal themselves. I'm not particularly interested in her Sires heritage atm. She does have a reduced pattern though, I have showed pics around, most agree she's likely to be a Jag. Btw Colin, do you have any albums of pics for your Jags? I'd like to take a look


----------



## Colin (Apr 14, 2012)

SpilotaFreak78 said:


> Someone on here, but I won't say who unless they want to reveal themselves. I'm not particularly interested in her Sires heritage atm. She does have a reduced pattern though, I have showed pics around, most agree she's likely to be a Jag. Btw Colin, do you have any albums of pics for your Jags? I'd like to take a look



I think the seller of the "american bloodline" would be grateful for you mentioning them. Im sure Im not the only one curious to know. give them a plug 

there a few pics of some of my jags (SXR line) in this thread..


----------



## S&M Morelia (Apr 27, 2012)

Some nice Jags and crosses! Keep the pics coming.

Here's some updated pictures of some of mine.

Caramel Jag - Will be paired up with a striped coastal and a Jungle this season, can't wait to see what they look like.






50% Diamond x Jungle - Will be paired up with the same Jungle as the Caramel Jag. Hope to keep the tipping but gain more yellow in the pattern.


----------



## CHONDROS (Apr 27, 2012)

heres a yearling coastal x albino and it mother


----------



## Colin (May 5, 2012)

couple of jag siblings - from MD jag x Julatten Jungle female

before someone asks.. no there not for sale.. I'm keeping some for my own projects and I give a free sibling with every jag purchased. I also give some away to friends.. 
but Im not selling them sorry


----------



## Colin (May 5, 2012)

another sibling


----------



## Khagan (May 5, 2012)

Update shot of my ugly sib =p.


----------



## Colin (May 5, 2012)

GeckoJosh said:


> Hey,
> I would have thought the one on the left was a JAg for sure?
> Does it lack the silver eyes?



you can tell the jags from the siblings as soon as they hatch just by looking at them josh.. they're siblings, these are jags


----------



## FusionMorelia (May 6, 2012)

heres a few of my milkshakez
2 of my MD X Jungles









Het Albino JAG


----------



## aussie-albino (May 9, 2012)

Male darwin x coastal caramel het albino from Roger

cheers
Scott


----------



## aussie-albino (May 9, 2012)

Female darwin x coastal caramel het albino from Roger.

cheers
Scott


Female darwin x coastal caramel het albino from Roger.

cheers
Scott






Some of my darwin x black and ivory jungle het albino holdbacks.

cheers
Scott


----------



## citrus (May 10, 2012)

What was the aim with the b/w jungle cross Darwin? I'm not having ago or anything I think it looks great but was just wanting to know where you think the project will go? Or what was the thought behind the pairing?


aussie-albino said:


> View attachment 251457
> Female darwin x coastal caramel het albino from Roger.
> 
> cheers
> ...


----------



## dannydee (May 10, 2012)

Colin said:


> couple of jag siblings - from MD jag x Julatten Jungle female
> 
> before someone asks.. no there not for sale.. I'm keeping some for my own projects and I give a free sibling with every jag purchased. I also give some away to friends..
> but Im not selling them sorry



I think these siblings look amazing, better than the jags in my opinion.


----------



## Bryce (May 10, 2012)

Poss het Jungle Jag


----------



## aussie-albino (May 10, 2012)

citrus said:


> What was the aim with the b/w jungle cross Darwin? I'm not having ago or anything I think it looks great but was just wanting to know where you think the project will go? Or what was the thought behind the pairing?



Hi Citrus,
When I got the jungles 4 years ago they were swapped to me as Het axanthics (according to the breeder, I am not making any claims as I have not proven them and haven't seen his proof) so I put them with albinos just on the off chance he may be right and I might get lucky. Either way it may produce a different colored albino.

cheers
Scott


----------



## shaunyboy (May 11, 2012)

S & M Morelia 

you have some great looking morelia

i really like the pattern in the diamond jungle in the last picture of your first post

heres a few pictures of some from the opposite side of our planet

black and white diamond jungle













copper colored 75% jungle jag,with a full dorsal stripe













cheers shaun


----------



## aussie-albino (May 11, 2012)

Nice jag shaun.

cheers
Scott

Nice jag shaun.

cheers
Scott


One of my next Morelia milkshakes fingers crossed 50% darwin coastal Jag and one of my Dawin albinos, he still looks a little unsure about whats going on I hope he gets the idea soon.

cheers
Scott


----------



## Elite_Reptiles (May 12, 2012)

Little boy I just got today...


----------



## Jungle_Freak (May 12, 2012)

This tiger jungle jag male shed recently.
Cant wait to put him over a tiger jungle female ..
cheers Roger


----------



## CHONDROS (May 12, 2012)

50% het albino


----------



## D3pro (May 13, 2012)

Frozenmouse said:


> It is easy just breed an albino jaguar with a green and breed the offspring together if they are viable.
> Yee of little faith



Albino X Jags have been bred this year.

Albino Jag to breed, *2-3 *years.
+
Baby jagpondro het born. Take 2-3 years for males and 3-4 years for females. So lets say *3*.
+
The likely variable between the two matings wont work, add *2* years.
=
*8 years, *75% Carpet x GTP albinosWhich brings us to 2020

I stand by my rational comment.


----------



## Sissy (May 14, 2012)

S&M Morelia said:


> Some nice Jags and crosses! Keep the pics coming.
> 
> 50% Diamond x Jungle - Will be paired up with the same Jungle as the Caramel Jag. Hope to keep the tipping but gain more yellow in the pattern.



Thanks for posting this because this snake just convinces me even more that our Sniper is in deed a mix
I bought her as a jungle but I'm sceptical... any opinions welcome..
I figure I'm the third owner mainly due to her attitude 100% strike rate lol... 
and when I got her I was told she came from Kamm on here? 
Maybe you can give me a little more history if you did breed her please... oh and I was told she's around two maybe 2 1/2 years old...thanks


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Jun 1, 2012)

Great to see the latest pic of the albino jag Col.
Good luck Scott with your breeding season. 

Heres a jungle jag sibling male.





and heres its sibling brother a jungle jag.


----------



## Khagan (Jun 18, 2012)

Jag and its sib.


----------



## S&M Morelia (Jun 28, 2012)

Skelhorn said:


> I love the Diamon X Bredli, Do you have more pictures of this one? beautiful!


Unfortunately, I don't have any more photo's of this girl as she passed away from being egg bound 

But here are a few of her that I have on my Flickr Account.
Some may already be posted in this thread.













Thanks.


----------



## Kurto (Jul 5, 2012)

I havent posted anything in quite some time!! Bout time I get on with it!!

This little fella doesnt have the most intriguing pattern.. But the yellow is really coming through for 7 months!!! Cant wait to get him back over another super yellow jungle!!


----------



## ramzee86 (Jul 5, 2012)

75% Jungle Jag from Southern X


----------



## Jay84 (Jul 8, 2012)

My Jungle Jag just shed and is growing very quick.


----------



## eddie123 (Jul 12, 2012)

weird question but if i were to ever breed a bredli cross diamond what temps would the hatchies be kept at. eg diamonds need UV and Bredli's dont so would they need it or not. Bredli need different temps to diamonds and if you cross them do you keep the temps at the lower range or the higher range. I probably will never im just interested, thanks.


----------



## SpilotaFreak78 (Jul 12, 2012)

eddie123 said:


> weird question but if i were to ever breed a bredli cross diamond what temps would the hatchies be kept at. eg diamonds need UV and Bredli's dont so would they need it or not. Bredli need different temps to diamonds and if you cross them do you keep the temps at the lower range or the higher range. I probably will never im just interested, thanks.


I heard that the Diamonds and UV lights thing is debatable. My vet even said not to worry about it. My Daimond has no UV light and is very healthy according to the vet. Anyhow back on topic. Stunning animals everyone.


----------



## Troy K. (Jul 19, 2012)

Hypo Bredli jag that just shed. Looking forward to working with this animal next year.


----------



## Troy K. (Jul 19, 2012)

Cheers Mick, 
here he is with one of his future partners, she is a caramel hypo bredli jag. Will also be pairing him with an albino jag and a few others.


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Jul 29, 2012)

Latest pic of my Tiger jungle jag male aged about 7 months old.




Ill have another clutch of these dew to hatch about xmas time from different parents .
See below.


Heres the breeding pair from this seasons Tiger jag project they are not the parents of the one above .
This seasons offspring should be more extreme in there "reduced striped patterns" .
Lemon striped jag male.




My Gold Tiger jungle female.





cheers
Roger


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## FusionMorelia (Jul 30, 2012)

just to keep it going lol 














Nato


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## Mitch.D (Jul 31, 2012)

My new guy i just got yesterday from Neville. Just snapped a few quick shots before i put him away to rest easy and settle in. Very happy not to mention Neville was by far my most helpful breeder i have bought from, i'm sure ill be getting more from him in the near and distant future.
8 months old, Jungle Jag. Not the best photos didnt want to mess around to much.


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## shannii84 (Aug 1, 2012)

The diamond jungle is stunning. Just outta curiosity how much would one of those cost?






This my 25% coastal 25% jungle 50% Darwin. Still only about 4 months old with a beautiful temperament.


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## Alexpython (Aug 4, 2012)

hypothetical question, would you be able to cross a jungle jag with an albino darwin?? and what would the first generation end up as? assuming hets for albino, jags and sibs? (if this is a silly question i apologise)


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## Mitch.D (Aug 4, 2012)

Alexpython said:


> hypothetical question, would you be able to cross a jungle jag with an albino darwin?? and what would the first generation end up as? assuming hets for albino, jags and sibs? (if this is a silly question i apologise)



Im not sure but taking a guess jungle jag het albino and some het albinos :/ 
Just a guess im also interested to know if someone can specify?


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## tangy1 (Aug 4, 2012)

One from Jungle Freak I got last month.


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## Scleropages (Aug 4, 2012)

Mitch.D said:


> Im not sure but taking a guess jungle jag het albino and some het albinos :/
> Just a guess im also interested to know if someone can specify?




All the offspring would be 100% het for albino Jungle/Darwins.
50% are sibs ( Jungle X darwin 100% het albinos) and 50% are Jags (100% het albino Jungle/Darwin Jags -carrying the Jag Gene)|
*posted after quite a few Guinness so hope I wrote that right*


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## Frozenmouse (Aug 9, 2012)

The jag offspring will look like a darwin x jungle jag but will carry the albino gene the jag sibs will look like darwin x jungles but will also carry the albino gene , 
I would like to see a zebra albino anyone working on them yet?


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## tangy1 (Aug 12, 2012)

Jungle Jag girl enjoying some sun.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 12, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> All the offspring would be 100% het for albino Jungle/Darwins.
> 50% are sibs ( Jungle X darwin 100% het albinos) and 50% are Jags (100% het albino Jungle/Darwin Jags -carrying the Jag Gene)|
> *posted after quite a few Guinness so hope I wrote that right*



What about the coastal gene from the jag origin?


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## corallus (Aug 31, 2012)

*.*

Hi Everyone,

My name is Tibor, I am new here but I've been following the forum for some time now and learned a lot from all of you.
Some pictures of my male and female Diamond x Bredli het. stripe and some of their babies. Parents look similar but the babies are very different from eachother. Thanks for looking!

Female: 






Male:


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## Sissy (Sep 4, 2012)

*Jo Jo Jagger*

My baby boy...


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## Jay84 (Sep 6, 2012)

*Morelia Milkshakes*

Here's one of my little ones, growing quick.


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## nervous (Sep 6, 2012)

one of mine...


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## shaunyboy (Sep 9, 2012)

kupper said:


> How's about get this thread back on track with some more Morelia milkshake photos ?



75% jungle jag,with complete dorsal stripe














Black and White Diamond Jungle
as a hatchling













cheers shaun


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## Smithers (Sep 9, 2012)

My Milkshakes bring the boys to the yard View attachment 264597
View attachment 264594
View attachment 264595
View attachment 264596


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## nervous (Sep 9, 2012)

Smithers said:


> My Milkshakes bring the boys to the yard



that white 1 is ridiculous!! what % is it?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 9, 2012)




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## shaunyboy (Sep 9, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> What about the coastal gene from the jag origin?



your correct in brining up the coastal mate

a jungle jag x albino darwin would produce.....

jungle darwin jags het albino

jungle darwin coastal sibs het albino

it would depend on the amount of jungle that was in the jungle jag,on how little the coastal influence would be percentage wise

cheers shaun


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## Colin (Sep 10, 2012)

Smithers said:


> My Milkshakes bring the boys to the yard



great pics brett


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 10, 2012)




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## Alexpython (Sep 11, 2012)

my little jungle Jag i got from designer serpents! such beautiful little things!


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## Smithers (Sep 11, 2012)

View attachment 264833
View attachment 264834


Getting better each shed


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## Colin (Nov 1, 2012)

First hatched for this season  Albino Jag and Jag het albino hatched 31-10-2012


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## Rob (Dec 30, 2012)

As well as the General Site Rules, there are strict conditions in place. These are non-negotiable:


Absolutely *NO* fighting/arguing/bickering, etc.
Posts are to remain *ON-TOPIC*. No rubbish posting will be tolerated. This includes "+1" posts. If you like what you see, simply *like* the post. Please keep comments *meaningful*. We do not have the time to sift through this stuff just to ensure the rules are being adhered to.
Informative posts/questions are permitted, but keep it on point. For example: "What kind of Jag is that ?" is permitted. Adding comments such as "My brother's girlfriend has always wanted one of those" is not necessary and runs the risk of the entire post being deleted.
Comments such as "I thought I'd post this up just to annoy the Jag-Haters" OR "Why anyone would want a mongrel head-shaker is beyond me" will *NOT* be tolerated.
Keep it *FRIENDLY* and *ENJOY* the thread for what it is.
Do *NOT* retaliate to aggresive posts. Simply use the Report Post function and let the APS Staff deal with it appropriately.
This thread is *NOT* a debate. It is for posting pics/info of relevant animals only.
Please *RESPECT* all your fellow APS members by acting in a respectful manner and keeping your personal opinions to yourself. This goes for *EVERYONE*.
Do *NOT* quote an entire post of photos just to say "WOW". This is considered rubbish posting and will be deleted.

Failure to adhere to these conditions will be met with deleted posts and locked threads, and the standard infraction process remains in effect. If it gets too much extra work for us then all threads will be locked *AND* any further discussions on the topic will be abandoned.

At the end of the day, we are doing this so that *YOUR* APS experience is as enjoyable as possible. Please respect that by adhering to the rules put in place.


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## Firepac (Dec 30, 2012)

We have come up with a compromise to try and get this type of thread running smoothly for the benefit those who are interested. Obviously it is not possible to put rules in black and white that will cover every eventuality but as long as posts are in line with the thrust of what we are trying to achieve then the moderation will be done with commonsense.


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## Hamalicious (Jan 4, 2013)

i was under the impression that it was illegal to cross these species? i know diamond and coastals inter breed in certain areas where their natural habitats cross over but diamond/bredli or diamond/jungle? ive read and been told on so many occasions that this is illegal, and i definitely think it should be. Could someone please clarify the law here? 



S&M Morelia said:


> Hey all, I was taking a few pictures of our mixed species morelia and thought I'd share.
> 
> First - 50% Diamond x Bredli - Female
> 
> ...


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## Bushman (Jan 4, 2013)

Mrherp said:


> i was under the impression that it was illegal to cross these species? i know diamond and coastals inter breed in certain areas where their natural habitats cross over but diamond/bredli or diamond/jungle? ive read and been told on so many occasions that this is illegal, and i definitely think it should be. Could someone please clarify the law here?


That's my understanding too. Deliberately cross-breeding hybrids is generally illegal in most states, however in the case of _Morelia spilota_ some people justify cross-breeding the various subspecies of _Morelia spilota_ by arguing that they are not distinct enough to be considered hybrids. Technically they're all considered one species i.e _Morelia spilota_, so they're not interspecific hybrids. However most people respect regionally distinct subspecies integrity and consider these to be intraspecific hybrids.


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## lochie (Jan 4, 2013)

Bushman said:


> That's my understanding too. Deliberately cross-breeding hybrids is generally illegal in most states, however in the case of _Morelia spilota_ some people justify cross-breeding the various subspecies of _Morelia spilota_ by arguing that they are not distinct enough to be considered hybrids. Technically they're all considered one species i.e _Morelia spilota_, so they're not interspecific hybrids. However most people respect regionally distinct subspecies integrity and consider these to be intraspecific hybrids.



wow, salutations.
I have moderated forums before and been an admin to a certain degree.
it's great to see this forum has intelligent well written staff.

I know myself that it's a pretty rewardless usually unpaid job where your damned if you do damned if you don't in most situations.

so I'd like to say thanks as I for one appreciate it.


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## Bushman (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks very much for your kind words Lochie. It's much appreciated.


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## Variety (Jan 18, 2013)

Here is my yearling 50% Tiger Jungle x Striped Intergrade, Expecting a shed and is a bit milky not fully highlighting the dark black outlines and rich browns.


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## Plissken (Jan 18, 2013)

Bushman said:


> That's my understanding too. Deliberately cross-breeding hybrids is generally illegal in most states, however in the case of _Morelia spilota_ some people justify cross-breeding the various subspecies of _Morelia spilota_ by arguing that they are not distinct enough to be considered hybrids. Technically they're all considered one species i.e _Morelia spilota_, so they're not interspecific hybrids. However most people respect regionally distinct subspecies integrity and consider these to be intraspecific hybrids.



Bushman. Would I be correct in saying then that crossing a Bredli with any of the other carpets WOULD be interspecific hybridisation as the Bredli is not a s_pilota _but a sub-species in it's own right? Just curious. Thanks.


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## Murtletheturle (Jan 18, 2013)

Don't know what this carpet is but a great one. Very much a milkshake of a snake


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## Justdragons (Jan 18, 2013)

^^ looks like a darwin


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## Variety (Jan 19, 2013)

Beautiful snake whatever it is


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## Jungle_Freak (Jan 19, 2013)

Some latest pics..Caramel darwin het and tiger jag.


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## Variety (Jan 19, 2013)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Some latest pics..Caramel darwin het and tiger jag.



that tiger jag is amazing, beautiful defiant outlines


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## Jay84 (Jan 20, 2013)




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## Colin (Feb 3, 2013)




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## Rob (Feb 3, 2013)

Gotta be happy with them, Col.


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## gold&black... (Feb 3, 2013)

@ Jay, that's one crazy looking Jag.


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## Variety (Feb 3, 2013)

You would almost need sun glasses for him/her colin


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## AmazingMorelia (Feb 3, 2013)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Some latest pics..Caramel darwin het and tiger jag.




That Caramel of yours looks very similar to a Caramel that I have kept back. Mine has no Darwin in it and is pure Coastal however.

- - - Updated - - -






Plissken said:


> Bushman. Would I be correct in saying then that crossing a Bredli with any of the other carpets WOULD be interspecific hybridisation as the Bredli is not a s_pilota _but a sub-species in it's own right? Just curious. Thanks.



Thats correct. Common scientific agreement is that there is only three distinct carpets in Australia. Bredlis, Imbricata and everything else. So the law in places like SA for instance will not prosecute you if you breed a Jungle to a MD, but will if you breed a Jag to a Bredli.


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## Rampant (Feb 3, 2013)




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## Snowballlz (May 3, 2013)

This is my big boi, only just found out about this thread I've been posting in the jungle thread, from what I've been told he is jungle x coastal


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## andynic07 (May 4, 2013)

.


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## Jay84 (May 5, 2013)




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## tankslapt (May 5, 2013)

Nice bright zeb jay! I'm betting that's going to look awesome once it's all grown up.


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## Helikaon (May 5, 2013)




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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

tankslapt said:


> Nice bright zeb jay! I'm betting that's going to look awesome once it's all grown up.


Which one is the zebra? I have only seen one zebra and it looked to have a lot more stripes.


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## nervous (May 5, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> Which one is the zebra? I have only seen one zebra and it looked to have a lot more stripes.


The 1st one is a zebra jag.


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## andynic07 (May 5, 2013)

nervous said:


> The 1st one is a zebra jag.


Fair enough, thought that was almost a contradiction in terms as I saw the zebra as having more pattern as compared to a jag that has a reduced pattern. Either way I do not really care what people call their snakes , a good looking snake is still good looking even if you called it a bucket of crap and that snake is good looking.


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## Jay84 (May 5, 2013)

Yep, they will be making some hot babies in a year  this year ill be breeding the yellow jag to another exciting male. Can't wait


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## zack13 (May 6, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> .


What is this? I really like it.


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## andynic07 (May 6, 2013)

zack13 said:


> What is this? I really like it.


It's father was a diamond and mother was a coastal.


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## greggles91 (May 6, 2013)

Any updated photos of the coastal x Darwin's or caramel coastal x Darwin's


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## Wing_Nut (May 6, 2013)

I have bred birds for years and a common term used when breeding birds (especially when any sort of inbreeding takes place) is hybrid vigour. With inbreeding over time the birds become weaker (ie less resistant to disease, smaller in size, and generally lack some vitality) and at this point a "cross" (a unrelated animal) is introduced into the breeding program to create a divergence from the genetic line. This is done to reinvigorate the line (as well as correct perceived flaws) with a noticed difference in the vigour and health of resulting offspring. With racing pigeons as an en example these hybrids as they are labeled are very desirable and often go on to great feats in racing performance. Does this concept apply to snakes that are hybridised in this manner? Do any of the animals exhibit signs improved vitality when compared to their parents? Do they grow bigger and stronger? Without the obvious thoughts of producing a super snake, wouldn't a robust, healthy, disease resistant, brightly coloured animal be ideal for the pet industry? I find it a fascinating thought, and I would appreciate constructive conveyance of thoughts on this post. 


Regards

Wing_Nut


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## Snowballlz (May 8, 2013)

Did a bit of reading today on the forum and figured it would be ok to up my feed size from medium quail to large. When I first got it out I was like awww hell no but the looked at some of the "is this too big" threads and was like he can handle it.
Only got the one pic had to play dad for a bit and by the time I got back it was loong gone.


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## The_Geeza (Dec 8, 2013)

Bump it up to c what's come of 2013


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## andynic07 (Dec 9, 2013)

MidsReps said:


> Bump it up to c what's come of 2013


I really like how dark the black colour is on your jag and how the colour in the head shot seems to start darker near the black then fades out.

- - - Updated - - -

I know I have posted this before but it is my only milkshake and I think Steve is awesome.


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## The_Geeza (Dec 9, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I really like how dark the black colour is on your jag and how the colour in the head shot seems to start darker near the black then fades out.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -


...Just starting to colour up mate


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## andynic07 (Dec 9, 2013)

MidsReps said:


> ...Just starting to colour up mate


It is really nice , how old is it?


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## The_Geeza (Dec 9, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> It is really nice , how old is it?


11 months


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Dec 24, 2013)

Some pics of my female Jungle Jag, no pics of the other two jags yet, will add later. More pics of this girl are in my albums


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## ramzee86 (Dec 25, 2013)

iPhone Pics


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## Burnerism (Dec 25, 2013)

God damn that's a couple of cracker serpents!!!!^


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## yellowbeard (Dec 25, 2013)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


>



That is an amazing Albino! The fluro yellow must be spectacular in real life, I want one lol.


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## smileysnake (Dec 25, 2013)

carpetpythons absolute stunners mate....that albino darwin is truly amazing and the last one is that a jungle or is it a jag cos that is awesome.......nice work


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## The_Geeza (Dec 26, 2013)

Serpentaria said:


> Some pics of my female Jungle Jag, no pics of the other two jags yet, will add later. More pics of this girl are in my albums


What % Jungle Jag is it as its got something else lurking in there 50%?...very nice tho


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Dec 26, 2013)

MidsReps said:


> What % Jungle Jag is it as its got something else lurking in there 50%?...very nice tho


Dam was a black and gold pure Jungle, not sure whether she was the striped one. The Sire, if anyone remembers, was a proven breeder for sale at $2500 at the Castle Hill show last year, bred by M. Banicek. I can't remember his exact colours, but there was cream body base colour and peppered black scales. The father may have some Coastal in him as he was a big boy. This little female and her brother were mostly reddish brown and a cream tan when I got them, they've been yellowing up with each shed and I'm quite happy with that and the $700 I paid for the pair.


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## The_Geeza (Dec 26, 2013)

Serpentaria said:


> Dam was a black and gold pure Jungle, not sure whether she was the striped one. The Sire, if anyone remembers, was a proven breeder for sale at $2500 at the Castle Hill show last year, bred by M. Banicek. I can't remember his exact colours, but there was cream body base colour and peppered black scales. The father may have some Coastal in him as he was a big boy. This little female and her brother were mostly reddish brown and a cream tan when I got them, they've been yellowing up with each shed and I'm quite happy with that and the $700 I paid for the pair.


Bargain... U must be happy with that!!


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jan 26, 2014)

More pics of my Jungle Jags and also my new Darwin Jag Het (last pic), bred by SXR, her parents are Aladdin and Snowflake.


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## The_Geeza (Jan 26, 2014)

Darwin Jag Het.... That's a mouthful


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## The_Geeza (Feb 11, 2014)

Bumpety...........


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## kenneally1 (Feb 12, 2014)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Some latest pics..Caramel darwin het and tiger jag.




That jag is very VERY Cool Roger  It looks a lot like a bunch of striped Jags that I have seen on here before  For the life of me I cant remember his/her name  But i'll have a dig through a few threads and see if I can find the Jags I was on about.


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## Barrett (Apr 14, 2014)

My new girl from Rogers Reptiles. She is a caramel tiger jag. She is a stunner in my eyes


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## tahnia666 (Apr 15, 2014)

Very lovely [MENTION=36566]Barrett[/MENTION] what a sweet face she has 

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk


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## PDM_Pythons (May 12, 2014)

[MENTION=34534]andynic07[/MENTION]


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## andynic07 (May 12, 2014)

[MENTION=40163]PDM_Pythons[/MENTION] wow mate that is different. I can't wait to see what colours it comes up with. I have seen a couple that colour when young but have not seen how the colour up.


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## Norm (May 12, 2014)

[MENTION=40163]PDM_Pythons[/MENTION], Wow! Nice so far!


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## smileysnake (Jun 19, 2014)

Colin said:


> great pics brett


so its a few years on would love to see the colour and pattern on this python now i bet its a cracker...


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## whiteshadow (Jun 20, 2014)

Smithers said:


> My Milkshakes bring the boys to the yard View attachment 264597
> View attachment 264594
> View attachment 264595
> View attachment 264596


what is this morph (new to snakes and have no idea) 

Anthony
aka White Shadow


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