# special treatment for breaking the law!!!



## sarah_m (May 19, 2008)

I was just reading through an old Reptiles Australia mag (Vol3 Issue 3) and there is an article that talks about a forum held in Nov 2006 to discuss the increasing problem of people keeping VENOMOUS EXOTICS! There was a suggestion made "to publicize a plea to those individules illegally keeping exotic venomous snakes, urging them to make contact with their local hospital to at least disclose the type of exotic snake being kept. This could be done anonymously...."

HELLO!!!! The individuals putting themselves, their families (children!!!), the community, and our environment at risk should not be given special privledges. They are breaking the law yet there is an entire forum organized to try and keep these people safe. if through their own stupidity they are bitten why should the local hospital be on stand by with exotic anti venom for them?
I clearly dont agree with this but what do other people think? Am i being overly harsh or do others agree?


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## MrBredli (May 19, 2008)

True, but what if one escaped and bit a neighbour, at least the local hospital may be somewhat prepared to help that person.


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## cracksinthepitch (May 19, 2008)

I just hope that some poor kid from say next door wanders in and thinks its a python and wammo. That would be the only scenario i can think of that would warrant it, otherwise agree with u.


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## sarah_m (May 19, 2008)

True, but the most likely scenario is that the one keeping it (is in close regular contact with it) is the one that will get tagged. If they choose to keep it then it is their own fault and if they get bitten then its one less idiot to contribute to the gene pool.


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## Noongato (May 19, 2008)

C'mon, you can never report anything genuinely anonamous. The authorities can always track you down. So perhaps it not such a dumb plan......


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## FNQ_Snake (May 19, 2008)

True guys, but instead of that, why don't that hold an amnesty for people to surrender there illegally kept species.


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## jamgo (May 19, 2008)

I remember in nsw we got special treatment for breaking the law we got an amnesty each to there own venomous exotics are here and in large numbers they ain't going anywhere nothing wrong for a keeper to be prepare.


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## sarah_m (May 19, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> True guys, but instead of that, why don't that hold an amnesty for people to surrender there illegally kept species.


If they are keeping them in the first place they probably wouldnt surrender them.


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## Ramsayi (May 19, 2008)

They had an amnesty a few years ago in NSW for exotics.....From all accounts bugger all were handed in.


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## jamgo (May 19, 2008)

That only because you weren't allowed to do anything with them ramsayi


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## sarah_m (May 19, 2008)

It seams like that by saying it can be done anonymously its like saying" yes, put yourself and others at risk while breaking the law and when it hits the fan there will be help available, even though it's your own fault in the first place, and could have been avoided if they had done the right thing".


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## MrBredli (May 19, 2008)

So by your way of thinking, someone who tries to fix an electrical fault on their own (instead of ringing an electrician) who ends up electrocuting themself should be left to die, and no medical assistance offered?


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## Bushfire (May 19, 2008)

I remember that forum and that was only one of the topics not the main event so to speak. Even if I dont argee with the keeping of venomous exotics I do believe that they should be able to get help. The guy that presented that paper was saying we know that they are out there and that medical centres should be able to plan for a snakebite of that nature. Again I dont see a problem.


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## VaranusWilson (May 19, 2008)

MrBredli said:


> So by your way of thinking, someone who tries to fix an electrical fault on their own (instead of ringing an electrician) who ends up electrocuting themself should be left to die, and no medical assistance offered?


what happens if that person thought it was fixed and then their child came along and got zapped? not just about that person, gotta think of every1 around you!
what do you think about ppl who kill snakes instead of calling a removalist.
do you think if they get bitten they should receive help? i say no.
ppl will always have exotics but its their own problem if they get bitten and should face harsh penalties if found with them or someone is injured by them


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## MrBredli (May 19, 2008)

VaranusWilson said:


> what do you think about ppl who kill snakes instead of calling a removalist.
> do you think if they get bitten they should receive help? i say no.


 
What if it was a member of your family?


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## DDALDD (May 19, 2008)

VaranusWilson said:


> what do you think about ppl who kill snakes instead of calling a removalist.
> do you think if they get bitten they should receive help? i say no.



While I certainly agree that it's a stupid thing to do, are you suggesting that if bitten they should be left to potentially die?


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## Veredus (May 19, 2008)

VaranusWilson said:


> what happens if that person thought it was fixed and then their child came along and got zapped? not just about that person, gotta think of every1 around you!
> what do you think about ppl who kill snakes instead of calling a removalist.
> do you think if they get bitten they should receive help? i say no.
> ppl will always have exotics but its their own problem if they get bitten and should face harsh penalties if found with them or someone is injured by them


 
I think you completely miss the point, as MrBredil has pointed out, these venemous exotics could possibly escape and harm a totally innocent bystander. The anonymity of some of these minor criminals could very well save lives. Say a child is bitten in their backyard by an escaped venemous exotic, are we to tell the parents "Sorry your child has to die because we don't allow anonymity for criminals". Some of you people are absolutely ridiculous.


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## sarah_m (May 20, 2008)

MrBredli said:


> So by your way of thinking, someone who tries to fix an electrical fault on their own (instead of ringing an electrician) who ends up electrocuting themself should be left to die, and no medical assistance offered?


I can see the point you are making and to an extent i agree, someones child should not have to die over the issue.I'm not saying anyone deserves to die, but if they decide to keep an exotic ven they have to accept that there is a very real possibility of them being bitten and possibly even dying. I just think that by allowing people this option it is almost encouraging it.
What if there is someone who would like to keep say a russels viper or a cobra but wont because of the possible consequences. Then he/she is told that they can let their local hospital know so that if they are bitten the hospital can be ready with the anti venom they need. What is stopping them now?
It is illegal for a reason, and 1 of those reasons is that it puts people at risk.


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## slim6y (May 20, 2008)

Is this any different to an arms amnesty?


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## caustichumor (May 20, 2008)

You can take my mamba, from my cold dead hand.....


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## Nagraj (May 20, 2008)

sarah_m said:


> It is illegal for a reason, and 1 of those reasons is that it puts people at risk.




I suspect it is no more expensive or difficult for a hospital to carry antivenines for exotic species than compared to native venomous species and people are legally allowed to own natives even though they are amongst the most dangerous in the world.


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## grimbeny (May 20, 2008)

You can say all you want but illegal vens are out there and harm minimisation is more important than a lame attempt to 'punish' the people who have them.


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## Earthling (May 20, 2008)

To those who think informing the hospital is going to make more people keep exotic vens, or is not allowing natural selection to take place, or is making it 'ok' in some way to keep exotic vens....Im guessing you also do not agree with hospitals giving out fit packs for intravenous drug users? Or needle bins in public toilets? Or drug education programs for healthy drug use? Or educating minors on safe sex? 
Ever heard of harm-minimisation?


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## morgs202 (May 20, 2008)

these exotics being illegally brought in are also the reason we have opmv and body inclusion disease


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## grimbeny (May 20, 2008)

morgs202 said:


> these exotics being illegally brought in are also the reason we have opmv and body inclusion disease


 
how is this relevant?


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## morgs202 (May 20, 2008)

if there was no demand for them, they wouldn't be smuggled in. therefore, the people who buy them are partially responsible for these diseases being brought into the country, and THAT is one more reason they dont deserve special treatment


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## cockney red (May 20, 2008)

Told you ****ing would make you go blind, thats a taipan!!!!!!!!! You're legal!!!!!:lol:


caustichumor said:


> You can take my mamba, from my cold dead hand.....


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## Nagraj (May 20, 2008)

grimbeny said:


> .... but illegal vens are out there ......




I would need to see evidence of that before I would be happy for taxpayer's money to be spent on entivenoms.


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## grimbeny (May 20, 2008)

Well you could get evidence of that if u let people come foreward without repurcussions.


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## Aslan (May 23, 2008)

...it is quite a preposterous idea to allow people to die - if a criminal steals a car and writes it off he is offered the same medical care as anyone else who does the same...

...without starting a ridiculous debate about whether capital punishment should or should not be in place - the simple fact of the matter is that we live in a CIVILISED and developed country, allowing people to die in such a way is absurd and the fact that this argument even arises astounds me...

...I agree that criminals should not be encouraged, people keeping exotic vens, however, are obviously doing it WITHOUT the medical safeguards in place so the argument that it would encourage them is ridiculous - it merely means they would receive suitable medical treatment...


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## thenicewitch (May 23, 2008)

It is unlikely that Hospitals will stock Exotic antivenine. They don't even have the money to stock adequate stocks of antivenine for native venomous species.


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## reconeyez (May 23, 2008)

i dont agree with hospitals having to stock exotic anti venom

local anti-venom is expensive enuf, in production and distribution. imagin the cost of suppling hospitals exotic anti venom. i could run into the hundreds of thounds. if not more

it also has a self life, further increasing the cost. the public health system is under enuf strain as it is. they simply can afford to stock it. they can barely keep up with the locals. 

if they did stock it our taxes would have to go up, so why should we pay for idiots who break the law and jeopardised saftey of others. 

hospitals should only carry the 5 types they do now.

i work in a hospital, i know the cut backs we have to put up with.


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## caustichumor (May 23, 2008)

I think that anyone who rocked up to a hospital with an exotic venomous snake bite, would have a few questions to answer anyway, and would probably have to pay for hospital costs on top of legal fees...


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## reconeyez (May 23, 2008)

not public hospital fees


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## Jen (May 24, 2008)

Even if hospitals stocked the right anti venom, someone coming in with a snake bite (from, say, an escaped exotic) isn't likely to know it was an exotic, and how likely is it for a hospital to test for exotic venom? Would giving the wrong anti venom hurt or help?


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## mebebrian (May 25, 2008)

How could a hospital having more ability to save a life be a bad thing? Surely keeping an exotic isnt an offence punishable by death?
Big fine, yeah
Prison, maybe
But death, thats a bit harsh init?


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## Earthling (May 25, 2008)

mebebrian said:


> How could a hospital having more ability to save a life be a bad thing? Surely keeping an exotic isnt an offence punishable by death?
> Big fine, yeah
> Prison, maybe
> But death, thats a bit harsh init?


 
Not when your talking right and wrong. 
Not when your talkng legal and illegal.
If its legal you live and can use our tax payers health system.
If its illegal you die! Preferably slowly. 
I love living in a Democratic Christian country...I can feeeeeeeel the looooove.


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## reconeyez (May 25, 2008)

as sad as it sounds public hospitals cant deal with exotic snake bites, they can only treat the symtimes, unless you have the required permit and have provide your local hospitsal with the info and the anti venom, i have asked the doctors where i work, and there is no way the public health system will stock it. unless you are willing to pay for it your self, 1 vial is approx $1000, for exotic, and it will need a vial every 4 years, not worth it! also how may bites have you heard only requiring 1 vial? zero, its more like 3-4 plus, i do snake id for my local hospital, and i see the strain it takes on the system. if these idiots are dumb enuf to risk thieeer life then good luck to themk, qld health cant help them nor should they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you keep exotics you are putting your life in your own hands.


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## Bushfire (May 25, 2008)

Ive been told that at least one major hospital in each state already stock exotic anti ven and then you have a supply of what zoos keep and AVU and venom supplies. Legalities and costs etc can be sorted out later, the protection of life is as it should also be first priority. Gee there is some harsh people on this site.


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## reconeyez (May 25, 2008)

also keeping the anit vemon for the exotic would just be a encoragement to keep them which is B.S, they then know that if they do get bit there is back up, if there is no anti venom then they might think twice about keeping them!

why should we jepardise our lives, aussie snakes for aussie ppl, we have an amazing variety of snakes here, dont get selfish and want more. there is more than anyone could want right in our back yard, if aussie snakes dont do it for you then move to the U.S or africa or asia, simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Fuscus (May 25, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> I suspect it is no more expensive or difficult for a hospital to carry antivenines for exotic species than compared to native venomous species and people are legally allowed to own natives even though they are amongst the most dangerous in the world.


Actually it ian be super expensive. Adelaide zoo has (had?)an endangered species of ratlessnake and the claimed that the anti-venom cost $17k every 3 months


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## SNAKEBOY33 (May 25, 2008)

VaranusWilson said:


> what happens if that person thought it was fixed and then their child came along and got zapped? not just about that person, gotta think of every1 around you!
> what do you think about ppl who kill snakes instead of calling a removalist.
> do you think if they get bitten they should receive help? i say no.
> ppl will always have exotics but its their own problem if they get bitten and should face harsh penalties if found with them or someone is injured by them


I THOUGHT THEY WERE PROTECTED WHY AREN'T THESE PEOPLE BITTEN TRYING TO KILL A SNAKE FINED AS WELL


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## Earthling (May 25, 2008)

reconeyez said:


> why should we jepardise our lives, aussie snakes for aussie ppl, we have an amazing variety of snakes here, *dont get selfish and want more*. there is more than anyone could want right in our back yard,


 
I love living in a capitalist society where I the consumer can let my selfish desires run riot with only the supplier holding me back.
Long live Selfishness!
Long live Capitalism!



Snake boy, the law has a hole for us humans who dont think. If you are in fear of the snake harming your fellow consumers/suppliers, you can kill it.


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## thegatorboy (May 26, 2008)

"these exotics being illegally brought in are also the reason we have opmv and body inclusion disease"

And Australia is the perported origin of the snake mite..whom carry and transmit OPMV and likely IBD....

So should the rest of the world blame the Aussies for snake mites and all the transmissable diseases associated ?


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## gillsy (May 26, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> C'mon, you can never report anything genuinely anonamous. The authorities can always track you down. So perhaps it not such a dumb plan......


 

Yes, they're going to spend 1000's of dollars tracking someone who has an exotic snake.

I don't think so, NSW Npws can't even look at people with licenses let alone people without.

An environmental agency doesn't have the funds or the authority to do that.


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## gillsy (May 26, 2008)

Most sydney hospitals don't even stock all antivenom types.

There was an article in an AHS newsletter, that from memory only Westmeade stocked all the common vens in the sydney region.


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## Jonno from ERD (May 26, 2008)

Fuscus said:


> Actually it ian be super expensive. Adelaide zoo has (had?)an endangered species of ratlessnake and the claimed that the anti-venom cost $17k every 3 months



That's an insanely inflated figure. The species of Rattlesnake they keep is Crotalus durrisus unicolor, the Aruba Island Rattlesnake. Venom Supplies keep Uracoan Rattlesnakes, Crotalus durissus vegrandis - both subspecies use the same antivenom and I can guarantee it was nowhere near as expensive as that, otherwise it wouldn't have been financially viable for the zoo, or for Venom Supplies to keep them.


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