# 'Crazy' like a pet fox



## Fuscus (Sep 6, 2011)

> But a federal Environment Department spokeswoman said the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act ''allows for any person to submit a proposal to amend the live import list''.
> ''There is no provision in the Act for a 'quick no' or 'clearly unacceptable' decision in the process,'' she said.


'Crazy' like a pet fox - Local News - News - General - The Canberra Times


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## Smithers (Sep 6, 2011)

I'll have a sexed pair thanks, gloves in winter come handy down here.


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## shell477 (Sep 6, 2011)

they not as good looking as our red fox.

regardless, stupid idea.


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## Fuscus (Sep 6, 2011)

Smithers said:


> I'll have a sexed pair thanks, gloves in winter come handy down here.


 Get a unsexed pair and you can have kittens, oops sorry, I mean mittens ( I often get the two confused, which has lead to some awkward situations).


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## snakeo (Sep 6, 2011)

Silly foxes are a pest and need be killed on site!


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## Erebos (Sep 6, 2011)

As much as there a pest the are still nice looking animals. 


Cheers Brenton


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## jedi_339 (Sep 6, 2011)

Smithers said:


> I'll have a sexed pair thanks, gloves in winter come handy down here.



haha they'd look awesome as a coat too, lovely silvery sheen

but on a side note, how ridiculous do they want to get, why not allow us to import more cane toads and start breeding those up too?

the independence of a cat? look at what most people let their cats do of a night time, as pets they'd be wandering the streets fending for themselves most nights anyway, so many people can't be trusted with their kids let alone pets, what is this country coming to?


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## mysnakesau (Sep 6, 2011)

Yay, just what we need - more foxes killing our native animals, and roaming the streets independently like cats do? Just another poor creature for people to blast and harm because they of what they do. Its not the foxes fault but they will be the ones to pay the price for a big mistake that could have been prevented.


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## pythrulz (Sep 6, 2011)

Animals are not pests we are they where here much longer than we are how could anyone talk about making mittens or coats from such a bueatiful looking animal


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## snakeo (Sep 6, 2011)

There introduced pest.. bringing more in Will undermine The Hard work that Hunters are doing to exterminate Foxes... In vic they are now paying you to shoot foxes..


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## mysnakesau (Sep 6, 2011)

pythrulz said:


> Animals are not pests we are they where here much longer than we are .....


Then we are probably the pest to them....lol


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## Serpentess (Sep 6, 2011)

I saw a documentary on this species not too long ago. When they originally brought them into captivity they were vicious, but with selective breeding they ended up with friendly individuals that act similar to a dog. They kept a control group to that wasn't bred selectively to prove that it was their line breeding that has changed them, so the camera followed them into this control group and when the lady put her hand near the cage they would snarl and try to bite her through the cage. Comparing this to the selective bred foxes, she would put her hand near the cage and they would rush up to her and try to lick her through the cage, much like an excited puppy.

It's only a few generations of selective breeding that has got them this far. They already had individuals with colour mutations (fully white, etc.) and tail mutations (curly tail, extra puffy tail, etc.). I wonder how they will end up with the same extensive select breeding that our modern day dogs went through.

Either way I don't want to see them in Australia.


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## Snowman (Sep 6, 2011)

Fuscus said:


> But a federal Environment Department spokeswoman said the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act ''allows for any person to submit a proposal to amend the live import list''.
> ''There is no provision in the Act for a 'quick no' or 'clearly unacceptable' decision in the process,'' she said



Cool. I'll submit a proposal to allow the import of chameleons....


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## alrightknight (Sep 6, 2011)

Snowman said:


> Cool. I'll submit a proposal to allow the import of chameleons....



Ill second that the only exotic I care to own.


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## Tassie97 (Sep 6, 2011)

i thought julia would like the red ones  haha


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## KaotikJezta (Sep 6, 2011)

If they are going to import any foxes it should be fenec (spelling) foxes.


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## Tassie97 (Sep 6, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> If they are going to import any foxes it should be fenec (spelling) foxes.


YES THEY ARE AWESOME


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## Fuscus (Sep 6, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> If they are going to import any foxes it should be fenec (spelling) foxes.


 Fennec Foxes, Fennec Fox Pictures, Fennec Fox Facts - National Geographic Desert adapted! Proberly could exist where we currently don't have foxes


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## waruikazi (Sep 6, 2011)

Unfortunately that means they will revert and adapt to our wild environment just as quickly.



chantelle_savage said:


> I saw a documentary on this species not too long ago. When they originally brought them into captivity they were vicious, but with selective breeding they ended up with friendly individuals that act similar to a dog. They kept a control group to that wasn't bred selectively to prove that it was their line breeding that has changed them, so the camera followed them into this control group and when the lady put her hand near the cage they would snarl and try to bite her through the cage. Comparing this to the selective bred foxes, she would put her hand near the cage and they would rush up to her and try to lick her through the cage, much like an excited puppy.
> 
> It's only a few generations of selective breeding that has got them this far. They already had individuals with colour mutations (fully white, etc.) and tail mutations (curly tail, extra puffy tail, etc.). I wonder how they will end up with the same extensive select breeding that our modern day dogs went through.
> 
> Either way I don't want to see them in Australia.


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## Serpentess (Sep 6, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Unfortunately that means they will revert and adapt to our wild environment just as quickly.


Very true. Even more of a reason for me not to want them in Australia.


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## jedi_339 (Sep 6, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Unfortunately that means they will revert and adapt to our wild environment just as quickly.



Very true,

Are they the same species as the red fox just different colour morph?

If so it just adds to the breeding pool, I imagine more then one owner would come outside of a night time find their silver fox being mounted.


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## Serpentess (Sep 6, 2011)

jedi_339 said:


> Very true,
> 
> Are they the same species as the red fox just different colour morph?
> 
> If so it just adds to the breeding pool, I imagine more then one owner would come outside of a night time find their silver fox being mounted.


They're a different species, I was led to believe.


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## jedi_339 (Sep 6, 2011)

Doing some research and they say that it is a silver morph of the normal Vulpes vulpes, how interesting


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## RSPcrazy (Sep 6, 2011)

My dad used to have a pet (normal) fox, that he raised from a baby. He never fed it meat, he fed it cat/dog food, "weet bix" mixed with milk and even vegetables. He tells me, it was an awesome pet, one of the best pets he's ever had, very calm and always well behaved. But one day he decided to give it some meat, after that, the foxes attitude changed over night and became agro, completely feral and uncontrollable, he was hoping it would get over it, but it didn't, it stayed like that for months and he had to have it put down.

This is what I'm worried about, what if they do bring these new foxes in and they turn out grate, until someone feeds them a peace of meat and it becomes completely feral.

I'm not for them bringing these foxes into Australia, they are a pest here and They always will be.


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## alrightknight (Sep 6, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> If they are going to import any foxes it should be fenec (spelling) foxes.



If you want a fenec fox just get a Chihuahua they are pretty much the same.


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## KaotikJezta (Sep 6, 2011)

alrightknight said:


> If you want a fenec fox just get a Chihuahua they are pretty much the same.


No way, fenec foxes are like pokemon, haha


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## Snakewoman (Sep 6, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> No way, fenec foxes are like pokemon, haha



Lol, they do look like that. When I first saw the picture it reminded me of a bat


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## crocodile_dan (Sep 6, 2011)

This topic was covered in Animal Behaviour (Uni of Qld) looking at heritability, specifically recreating domestication.

The study conducted on these foxes was done by Lyudmila Trut in Southern Siberia. The study was designed to replicate the domestication of dogs through intensive selective breeding, in order to do this study they not only selectively bred the friendliest foxes to domesticate them but they also selectively bred the most aggressive foxes to see inheritance. The study group of animals were from fur farms in Siberia where the original animals were fearful and displayed fear response aggression to the farm workers.

The resulting animals have now entered the pet trade in some countries.


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## S&M Morelia (Sep 7, 2011)

Here's an interesting read if anyone is interested, article is about rats, but does talk about the "domestication" of the grey fox.

Nice Rats, Nasty Rats: Maybe It?s All in the Genes - New York Times


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## fugawi (Sep 7, 2011)

To be honest, if the right checks and balances were set in place and it was HEAVILY regulated and I mean HEAVILY, it could work. To own one as a pet it MUST absolutely be desexed. Breeding is to be done by HEAVILY regulated licensed breeders and ownership of a pet is HEAVILY licensed. If the authorities police them and have massive fines for breaking the laws it could "theoretically" work. Of course living in the real world I would have to doubt that any authority would realistically be able to achieve any real policing.


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## Fuscus (Sep 9, 2011)

S&M Morelia said:


> Here's an interesting read if anyone is interested, article is about rats, but does talk about the "domestication" of the grey fox.
> 
> Nice Rats, Nasty Rats: Maybe It�s All in the Genes - New York Times


Thanks for the link. I read it ages ago and have not been able to find it again


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## Beard (Sep 11, 2011)

Its estimated that foxes kill 190 million native birds annually in Aust, combine the reptile, amphibian and mammal species and the number would be anyones guess. Then there is the impact foxes have on livestock, I often see first hand the damage done during lambing.


Another bright idea.


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## Beard (Sep 20, 2011)

how foxes should be


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## Laghairt (Sep 20, 2011)

I think we are over regulated here as it is and wouldn't want to see any further restrictions placed on what we can and can't do. 

Foxes are here in enormous numbers and they're here to stay. I doubt importing these guys would have any measurable impact on native wildlife. I think most people would be amazed to find out how many there are living in urban areas, certainly in Sydney they are extreemly common but rarely seen unless you know how to find them. Sadly, they will just continue to become a part of the landscape. Preveting people from keeping them will achieve very litte IMO.

On the other hand, Fenec Foxes are a different species with different specialisations and would cause a lot of damage if they ever established wild populations. 



fugawi said:


> To be honest, if the right checks and balances were set in place and it was HEAVILY regulated and I mean HEAVILY, it could work. To own one as a pet it MUST absolutely be desexed. Breeding is to be done by HEAVILY regulated licensed breeders and ownership of a pet is HEAVILY licensed. If the authorities police them and have massive fines for breaking the laws it could "theoretically" work. Of course living in the real world I would have to doubt that any authority would realistically be able to achieve any real policing.


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## Fuscus (Sep 20, 2011)

Rondo said:


> Preveting people from keeping them will achieve very litte IMO....


Unless they found a species specific pathogen to target foxes, in which case having a population of captive foxes would mean political problems for anyone who wanted to release it. 
For example, imagine if someone found a myxomatosis for cats. What would be the outcry if a politician advocated releasing it?


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## Vixen (Sep 20, 2011)

I'll be the first to say, i'd love a pet fox! (and yes the silver is just a colour morph of the red, naturally occurring in the wild but also ranched) That being said it would penned at all times though - I also envy that the US and UK can keep skunks!


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## Enlil (Oct 13, 2011)

Cool, I want to import Many eagles, the capyburra, tapir and baboons.


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## mattyg (Oct 13, 2011)

as pet? really? and when it gets out good luck catching them, hard enough with a gun let alone with out one.


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