# Pygmy Bearded Dragon - Help??



## Alldone (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi there guys. My daughter has recently (early last week) got two Pygmy Bearded Dragons. They are 6 months old & we bought them off a young guy - they came with their original 4 foot glass enclosure with heating & lighting etc. He told us that they were eating crickets (about 4 each per day) and vegies. 

My problem is that they don't seem to be eating. The female (who is much bigger) has eaten two crickets that I'm aware of so far and the male has only eaten a few little bits of carrot. There are crickets roaming around the tank but they don't seem interested in them - even if we put them right up near them they still don't seem to want to eat them.

I have put some food in their tank each day - broccoli, strawberries, apple, zucchini, carrot. I also put in the little lizard pellets softened with water but they don't seem interested?? :?

The ceramic heat lamp keeps the tank at about 30ish degrees & they have a rock up next to the tank where they can get warm. If I physically get them out & put them on the rock in the heat they seem to stay there, but don't actually make any attempt to get themselves up there.

I notice that they also seem to be sleeping in the cold end of the tank at night in a shoe box (their hide) - the female in particular seems to bury herself in the woody type substrate overnight & the male seems to sleep next to her but not buried.

I don't know a great deal about the bearded dragons - this is our first attempt at keeping lizards, so any help or tips would be most appreciated.


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## J-A-X (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello again, you have taken to reptile keeping in a big way huh, we all knew it wouldn't take you long to expand from what to get as a 'first' to 'guess what i have now" LOL
firstly congrats on your purchase,

I have 2 pygmy beardeds, that i would have to say drove me nuts.... all the 'rules & expectations' that i read up on from the limited info out there, was a complete waste of time, my two obviously hadn't read the book LOL,

they should have a basking spot at one end (like your snakes) but a temp of 40 - 42c on the basking site is recommended.... and then just ambient room temp so they can cool off if needed.

Mine eat next to nothing but seem to thrive, and despite my best efforts they have brumated for the last 2 years, and before anyone jumps in and says they should be allowed to brumate, I AGREE, but last year they were only 6mths old and everyone said they were too young, well, they knew better and buried themselves, for 5 months..... scary few months for me. Mine literally buried themselves last year, this year they have just 'hidden' in the cool end, mine also eat very little, which stuns me when everyone says they cost so much to feed with live food. 
Although i will give them the best of care, if anything happens to them i won't be replacing them,..

dont know if any of this is helpful or not, but thought i'd throw in my 2 cents worth,


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## n1cky83 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have to agree with jaxrtfm i have had a henrylawsoni for 18mths and it worries me sick they just dont seem to need much food mine has lost no weight and is wormed etc. has a basking point of 40c and is on his own. doesn't have substrate that can be ingested gets calcium and UVB so that rules those options out.
I really am starting to think that due to their very small size they eat jack all and are quite happy to chill out.

doesn't stop you worrying all the same its like having a fussy toddler.
I am taking mine for a general health check with a reptile vet for the first time just to put my mind at ease so I can hear it from an expert.

But the more people I speak to with pygmy's the more common this is sounding.


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## jbowers (Aug 23, 2010)

Is there a uvb bulb?

Also, it's not uncommon for bearded dragons to be very fussy eaters after a relocation.

Seems like this species doesnt eat a whole heap?


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## J-A-X (Aug 23, 2010)

i bought mine after being told they were quite little characters and watched everything and often moved around the tank, after 6 months i thought i must have 2 lazy ones, now i'm thinking i was misinformed, my snakes nocturnal) are more active than these pygmies are during the day, mine have UV, Calcium, vitamins, offered fresh F & V, dandelion leaves, woodies etc, but the killer for me is if i dont hand feed them then they dont seem to be bothered eating of their own accord,


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## mozi (Aug 23, 2010)

I just recently brought a pair of these (about 3 months ago) and found them somewhat temperamental to start off. They did not eat much and I was fearful that one was going to die. After a period of 'settling in' they now eat like little pigs, bask and are fairly active. Good luck with them. I feed mine in a separate container to their enclosure.


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## n1cky83 (Aug 23, 2010)

mine ate a fair bit at the start but know that he is approaching 2yrs old, he has slowed right down with eating, but still has a nice thick tail base.


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## bfg23 (Aug 23, 2010)

I recieved a pygmy beardy for free that was not looked after properly.

After putting a new UV tube in and getting a 100watt basking lamp he perked up straight away. He is much much more active than my central beardy, and eats like a pig. Every time I walk in the reptile room he comes running up to the glass waiting for some woodies, so he gets fed almost every day, and craps every other day.


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## Alldone (Aug 23, 2010)

Is there a difference between the white ceramic heat thing that is there and a basking lamp?? Maybe I have the wrong thing in there??


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## jbowers (Aug 23, 2010)

Well the ceramic thing puts out no light, whereas a basking light should provide bright white light. Dragons love basking under a light source, so the light is more useful for daytime heat than the ceramic heater.


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## n1cky83 (Aug 23, 2010)

yes mine uses a basking light, he does pick up after basking under it, I found the ceramic heater did nothing to increase activity and was only usefull at night.


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## Alldone (Aug 23, 2010)

Here is the little ones & a pic of their enclosure (taken by the previous owner):











The thing up the top is the lighting. Does this look ok?

And here is the ceramic heater:





Would I be better off replacing the ceramic heater with a basking light?


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## J-A-X (Aug 23, 2010)

without a bright white light mine wuoldn't eat at all, even a red basking light was no good, tried a small fluro, nothing.. nice bright white UV basking light and bingo, feeding well, ... or as well as these little guys feed


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## The_Dreaded_Pets (Aug 23, 2010)

mine ate like crazy especially whenever i put woodies in so try some of those or maby even some silkworms if u can get ur hands on them


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## Alldone (Aug 23, 2010)

loonytoon said:


> mine ate like crazy especially whenever i put woodies in so try some of those or maby even some silkworms if u can get ur hands on them


What's a woodie?


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## The_Dreaded_Pets (Aug 23, 2010)

roaches u get them from petshops like crickets


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## J-A-X (Aug 23, 2010)

and just to clarify MM, they aren't your household roaches... they are 'speckled feeder roaches' if you find your dragon takes a big liking to them it can get expensive, but it is possible to breed your own, if you want to give it a go there are heaps of threads on breeding woodies, or if you can't find them give me a PM and i'll point you in the right direction, in the right conditions they breed well. and when they get too big for the pygmies, you may have to buy a standard size dragon to eat the big ones, or in my case, hand them of to a relative or friend,


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## jbowers (Aug 23, 2010)

Are you in melb? If so pm me for the name of a good woodie breeder. Even if you are interstate it's worth buying 500 or so and starting a colony.


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## J-A-X (Aug 23, 2010)

500 for a colony ?? i bought 3 tubs, put 2 and the large ones from the 3rd tub into a sistema container and kept them warm and fed and by the time the 2pygmies had finished the third tub, the 'colony' was under way


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## Alldone (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok - I'm pretty sure that they're brumating. They have both been in the shoe box all night last night & all day today without coming out at all. The female has partially buried herself in the woody stuff on the bottom of the enclosure. I checked them both earlier & they are sound asleep. 

Is there anything I need to do or do I just leave them be?


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## J-A-X (Aug 24, 2010)

Leave them be, provide clean water and wait for them to wake up, and wait, and wait, LOL, leave your heating/lighting on during the day mimic the natural daylight, remember, your basking spot needs to be a white light, that will give an air temp of 40 - 43c, from above, and dont forget the UV only 'lasts' 5-6 mths.....
or you can take them outside in the sun for 15 - 20 min 2 or 3 times a week, it is possible to get mesh enclosures (the name escapes me) that allow plenty of airflow, dont leave them out there on their own, they will likely get taken by birds / cats, and there have been other reptile owners who have been well meaning and put there little ones outside, in the sun, in their plastic tubs, with the lids on, so please dont do this, it will end in tears,

PS when handling your pygmies, please remember that they are very quick on their feet, and i haven't yet heard of anyone walking around with them on their shoulder like the eastern and central beardies.....

also , dont leave crickets in the tank, they have a taste for dragon toes while the dragons sleep.....


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## Icarus (Aug 25, 2010)

Hi,
I'm also from newcastle, and i have a dwarf beardie. he's very healthy, energetic and curious - yet sometimes he just seems weird! randomly he wont eat, or he'll sleep all day, or ignore crickets hopping about his tank. but when it comes down to it, he knows what he's doing, and over time i've learnt to stress-less. if you are providing the right light and heating (my ceramic heat lamp sits at about 33 degrees most days in winter, and i keep a uvb bulb on for about 12 hours a day) and offering them food at least once every two days (we give medium crickets and clover leaves), then they'll be fine. 
hope this helps.

caiti.

also if you ever want more advice, i find that the young bloke from "krempins nursery and aquarium" at tingira heights and nearly everyone who works at "all about fish" in warners bay know their stuff and dont try to sell you anything if youre just looking for a bit of advice.


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## LadyJ (Aug 25, 2010)

Just make sure NOT to handle them until they settle (might be hard for the daughter), but they do need their space to try and settle in. Best of luck!


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## Alldone (Aug 27, 2010)

Well I just checked them (to make sure they were still alive) after a few days of not touching them at all & I think I accidently woke them up. The male has come out of his hidey house & started woofing down crickets. Haven't seen the female out yet though. Is this bad?? Have I interrupted the natural order of things - I really didn't mean to disturb them - just wanted to make sure they were ok.


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## EmDown (Aug 27, 2010)

while i don't have little dragons only big ones i have noticed that without a nice hot bright source of light they do not move much.... 

with regards to crickets i highly recommend that you don't let them loose in the enclosure.... what i do is have a semi clear plastic container, i put the crickets in the container (also easy to dust them with powder like this) and place the container in their house... they can see the crickets through the edging... if they are hungry they start to chase the crickets through the side so i put them in the container and count how many the eat.... i recommend something like this cause when i started i just let them loose and now one of my dragons is missing a foot.....


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## J-A-X (Aug 27, 2010)

MartinsMum said:


> Well I just checked them (to make sure they were still alive) after a few days of not touching them at all &* I think I accidently woke them up.* The male has come out of his hidey house & started woofing down crickets. Haven't seen the female out yet though. Is this bad?? Have I interrupted the natural order of things - I really didn't mean to disturb them - just wanted to make sure they were ok.



Hi MartinsMum, Just thought i'd pick you up on your statement of 'woke them up' and i know you are new to the whole reptile scene, so i thought i'd clear up a common confusion, reptiles dont hibernate, (deep sleep, wont easily be woken) they brumate, as you know, but i think you are still a little blurry on the difference. Brumation should not be confused with hibernation;

when mammals hibernate they are actually asleep, 
when reptiles brumate they are less active, appearing to be asleep, but are able to 'wake' and flee any threat and their metabolism slows down so they just don't need to eat as often. and can often go through the whole winter without eating However, they do need to drink water so ensure there is always fresh drinking water available.
The brumation period is anywhere from 1-8 months depending on the air temperature and the size, age, and health of the reptile. During the first year of life, many small reptiles do not fully brumate, but rather slow down and eat less often. 

the first year you encounter this is going to be a worrying time, but have confidence in mother nature and they should pull through ok, if they are not disturbed frequently.


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## Alldone (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks so much for that Jax. The female is still asleep (eyes shut, half buried in hidey hole) and the male is walking around the enclosure (slowly) and eating some crickets. My daughter has held the male today but I told her to leave the female alone. Brumation is definately a confusing thing - think I'll have to do some more research on it so I make sure I'm doing the right thing. I have left them fresh water but have not bothered to feed them the last few days as I haven't even seen them out of the shoe box.

Em, I had NO idea that crickets could eat their toes - cheeky little buggers! I was concerned when we put some crickets in there & the dragons didn't eat them as the crickets were just free roaming around the tank. Most of them are out now (phew) but I will definately keep an eye out for any more. I had no idea about not feeding them in their enclosure, so thanks for the tip.

Think I'm going to get them a basking light, as it may not be warm enough in the enclosure & maybe that's why they're so sleepy/slow moving??? Is this the red ones that I've seen or a different sort?? Should I keep the basking light on 24 hours for warmth, or switch to the cermaic heat thing at night??


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## Fireflyshuffle (Aug 27, 2010)

If they are always sleeping, they need to be kept warm all day/night meaning heating at night via red light or ceramic. Without doing this they will brumate regardless. Pygmys are notorious for slowing down with just a slight change in temp, from my personal experience. I dont have a problem with any of my Pygmys, they all eat fine etc and act normal. As long as you have the necessaries, such as basking light, uv light, and getting a night light helps. Id be taking a fecal up to the vet seens you got them from someone who's obviously not had them long before wanting to pass them on, being 6 months old, i hope they new they had to hold the animal for 6 months before selling them?! Anyway, lots of heat, forget the feeding for a couple of days or at least untill you see it basking itself. And dont stress it anymore by constantly opening enclosure and finding them. ps..Is that bark as the substrate? Can i also suggest you remove that and go back to paper untill you no whats wrong. There way to small for bark. And not hygenic if they are sick. Cheers


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## Fireflyshuffle (Aug 27, 2010)

Beardies are DIURNAL. Meaning they are like us, they like to sleep in the dark, at night. So leaving a basking light on 24 hours is very bad and stresses them out..Stick to a normal photoperiod, Basking light and uv tube on when its daylight(around 7am) and off when it gets dark (around 6pm) with the red or ceramic light opposite (on around 7pm till 5am) at least ubtill summer hits Thats usually a good photoperiod.
Temps should be 40d Hot spot during the day, with the cool end no lower than 28.


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## Alldone (Aug 27, 2010)

There is only one thermometer in the tank & it reads 30 degrees during the day & about 20 degrees at night. It is kind of in the middle of the tank. I have been leaving the lights on during the day & turning them off at night but leaving the ceramic heater going 24/7.

They are definately VERY slow. When my daughter took out the male & put him on her hand he kind of just sat there looking up at her & looking around a bit. Not even really an inkling that he was going to run. In fact - we've never even SEEN them run.

The guy we bought them from was a young kid (maybe 14-15 years old). He was selling them to save up for something else. I bought it as it seemed like a good idea to get a pair that came with their own enclosure, heat, light etc. He said they were eating 4 crickets a day each which I've never seen them do - when I showed them crickets they weren't even remotely interested.

The stuff that is in their enclosure is like a shredded bark kind of stuff. The kid said he got it from a reptile shop. Do I need to take it out? What paper should I use?? Also, would it be better to have them in a smaller enclosure while they're young? I have a 2 foot tank I can move them to if you think the 4 foot one is too big??

I just want to do the right thing by the little guys.


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## Fireflyshuffle (Aug 27, 2010)

Your doing the best atm. The bark you have looks to me like kittys crumble. I havent had any probs with it with mine, but i do only use it in my adults enc. All the babies have paper, whether it be newspaper, or butchers paper (newspaper is much more convenient), and just change it when they defecate. Doing this will ensure you can see them regulary defecating, and gives you a chance to get a look at it, sounds wrong but once you know how to find a good poo to a bad, its the first kind of thing you look at Have they defecated yet? As regular defecation is a good thing, If you havent seen them poo, id say they havent been eating for a bit. 
With the tanks, you could do a couple of things..
Seperate them, just to make sure one isnt dominating the other (as you did say one was up but the other isnt) but make sure you have proper lighting in the other tank you have also. Seperating could answer some of your questions, but i would not recomend putting them together in the 2foot.
The only bad thing about the 4ft could be the tank is dropping way too low at night, as theres so much room in enclosure, its impossible to keep them warm if there at opposite ends, hence why i say put one into the 2ft and see if you notice it pick up. If it does id say either keep them seperate, or boost up the heat in the 4ft. Hope this helps.


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## J-A-X (Aug 28, 2010)

i would suggest putting your thermometer (or thermometer probe) where they would normally sit under the basking light, and see what sort of temp you get there, as said it needs to be 40+, these are not like your snakes that are comfortable at the lower end of 30c, they need it a fair bit hotter,

definately a nice bright white daylight basking light and maybe the ceramic at night in the winter just to stop it getting too cold in there,


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## Alldone (Sep 2, 2010)

OK I've changed the ceramic heater to a good one & now the temps at the basking end are between 40-45 degrees during the day. The dragons are still predominantly hanging around the cool end, burying themselves in the hot end (under large sandstone rocks) or just hanging about. They are not eating at all - not vegies or crickets that we tried to feed them. I am bathing them each morning in tepid water & trying to drip water into their mouths to hydrate them a bit. On the first day they opened their mouths in the bath & drank some water but not yesterday or today. I am at a loss what I can do to get them to eat. I am also concerned that they seem so lethargic.


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## J-A-X (Sep 2, 2010)

dont panic, its still cold, mine are still sleeping, since mid/late may, despite everything i tried to do to stop them, 
leave them to do what they need to do, they wont eat because they 'know' its too cold to digest, and it will rot in their gut and kill them, they will drink when they need to , don't bathe them or try and 'make' them drink, it will put undue stress on them, just keep the heating as it is and they will know what to do, and change the water regularly,

It is stressfull on us maternal women to just let them be, but thats what they do in winter...... absolutely nothing. LOL, patience, my first 'brumation' was nerveracking, this year i'm a little calmer, but will still be happier once they wake up...


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## LadyJ (Sep 2, 2010)

Jaxrtfm said:


> dont panic, its still cold, mine are still sleeping, since mid/late may, despite everything i tried to do to stop them,
> leave them to do what they need to do, they wont eat because they 'know' its too cold to digest, and it will rot in their gut and kill them, they will drink when they need to , don't bathe them or try and 'make' them drink, it will put undue stress on them, just keep the heating as it is and they will know what to do, and change the water regularly,
> 
> It is stressfull on us maternal women to just let them be, but thats what they do in winter...... absolutely nothing. LOL, patience, my first 'brumation' was nerveracking, this year i'm a little calmer, but will still be happier once they wake up...


 
Hehe, so basically they've got to follow their instincts and we've got to put ours aside... drat, never easy for us lady-folk! Nature knows best and this is a natural process, so try to relax and keep us posted.


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## Alldone (Sep 2, 2010)

Ok - I'll leave them alone - they're probably supremely pissed at me picking them up all the time to bath them, try to feed them etc. You're right though - it definately goes against the mothering in me! You should hear me "talking" to them - trying to convince them to eat - they probably think I'm absolutely insane! :lol:


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## J-A-X (Sep 2, 2010)

MartinsMum said:


> ........ You should hear me "talking" to them - trying to convince them to eat - they probably think I'm absolutely insane! :lol:


 
 welcome to the world of reptiles, you are now officially hooked 

ps i talk to both my lizards and all 6 of my snakes......


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## LadyJ (Sep 3, 2010)

Jaxrtfm said:


> welcome to the world of reptiles, you are now officially hooked
> 
> ps i talk to both my lizards and all 6 of my snakes......



Glad I'm not the only one...


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## Slime (Oct 4, 2010)

Can someone please tell me why my 7 month old pygmy hasnt eaten for over a month. i am very worried that he will die of starvation all he wants to do is sleep all day and stay in his hide. How long can pygmys go without food am concerned about him and would like some conformation if he is in brumation please can someone help​


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## J-A-X (Oct 4, 2010)

my pygmy BDs brumated last year and they were only 6mths old at the time, i tried everything including a higher Wattage globe to stop them sleeping, because everyone told me they were to young to allow to brumate, but they did anyway, my boy slept for about 3 months, the girl just power napped for a week at a time, this year they have gone 'right' down, ~ 5mths but by the look of it my girl is just waking up today, he's moved a little so fingers crossed they will both be wide awake by the end of the week,

when they brumate they dont technically sleep, they just slow right down but can flee predators if needed. if you open their tank they will likely half open their eyes to check whats going on. but try not to disturb them too often, it will stress them out. just keep fresh water in their, mine will sometimes pop out for a drink and then bed down again.


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