# ackies vs pygmy mulga... prices etc?



## giggle (Oct 20, 2010)

I have done some searching and still have some unanswered questions about these monitors.

If I understand correctly... gillens are smaller, more entertaining but duller patterned than ackies... the ackies being prettier and larger appeal to more people?

I am absolutely stumped as to which I should go for. So I decided to let price settle it for me LOL What prices do the gillens go for? Each and as a pair?

The gillen's rather interest me... but the ackies are just so pretty


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## jbowers (Oct 20, 2010)

'more entertaining' is a pretty questionable comment. It would depend greatly on the individual animal. Also on what you find entertaining.


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## Nash1990 (Oct 20, 2010)

Gillens tend to go for between $200 - $250, from what i've seen, not 100% sure about ackies. 
My gillens were $220 each.

They can't really be handled like ackies due to their small size so you'll have to be happy just to sit and watch them race around being clowns.

Ackies can be easier to find too, I don't see many gillens for sale to often


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 20, 2010)

My priority for getting either of these monitors wouldn't be based on price. I've had both, and neither seem to like handling and they probably find it quiet stressful if the truth be known. And who wants to stress their captives unnecessarily? Personally, I'd go with the Gillens, mainly because there's no risk of having to seperate individuals, or even loosing one to aggression down the track. With Ackies there's, in my opinion, always a risk that one will turn on the other, despite all best intentions on the keepers behalf, for no apparent reason, sometimes with fatal consequences.


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## jbowers (Oct 20, 2010)

It's true, Ackies can be little savages.


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## giggle (Oct 20, 2010)

jbowers said:


> 'more entertaining' is a pretty questionable comment. It would depend greatly on the individual animal. Also on what you find entertaining.



That wasn't a comment, it was a question  I was hoping for opinions. Clearly with all species of all animals personality depends on the individual animal... but Im talking as a general rule here. It would be a silly idea if I were to sit here and explain my current interpretations of entertaining especially when I have never owned a monitor.  Just hoping for some keepers opinions/accounts of their own monitors.

Thanks nash1990 for the prices  Handling isnt an issue, I have beardies if I want something to handle. Generally just looking for something entertaining/inquisitive to set up in my garage/office space. I had decided on ackies... but reading up on the gillens they really started to appeal to me. Especially that that are arboreal and get along well in groups. Im here all day to keep an eye on my ackies if its what i eventually go with... but its always nicer to never have to worry about fighting  Im really liking the gillens... just wish they were a little sturdier size wise. A little worried about a bolting gillens getting lost in the house during a cage clean or something! LOL

Imported_varanus Im sure you have commented on my previous threads regarding ackies  I've done a lot of research, even ordered the reptiles australia mag Vol 3 issue 1 for the articles on both these lizards. The mag is sitting in front of me now. I have googled, youtubed and researched all requirements and native environments. I have seen people on youtube with their ackies climbing out and sitting on their shoulder to be hand fed, which appealed to me and I think may not be an option with gillens... however the gillens seem to be more inquisitive! For every plus and minus for one species I found an equal in the other 
I believe I have a rather good idea of both... but the truth about that is one NEVER knows all there is needed to know or understand before bringing a new animal into their home.  The actual experience of owning is where a lot of knowledge comes from. There is always more to learn. By no means is my 'priority' the price... my priority was size, care requirements and entertaining/inquisitive nature. But its come down to a stalemate on the two species both with an equally desirable set of features. So other than rolling a dice, price was something else I could factor into the decision. Hence why I said price would decide it for me, not that it was my priority  Now looking at the price of gillens, it seems comparable to the price of ackies anyway. Seeing as I already have a 90x70x60 enclosure here to use for gillens... the slightly lower price of the ackies evens out when taking into consideration I need to build another enclosure xD
So unless someone has some more indepth info that might sway me, it looks asthough I might be rolling a dice after all!  lol

Knew I should have given a speech about how I had done extensive research in my opening post xD lol


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## jordanmulder (Oct 20, 2010)

ok so I'll speak a bit from personell experiance an of what I have read.
ok ackies will need a bigger eclosure that gillens for a start, I think ackies are cheaper than gellens from what I've seen ackies will generally range in price from about 150-250 the sandfires (verry stunning and worth the price indeed!) being the latter price, ackies can be handleable, but that depends alot on personality. my ackies at the moment are super active frome the start of spring darting hither and thither(spelling) cloming up logs rocks and 
accesing every available place, as stated before gillens are also extremely active and you don't have to worry about them fighting, I personelly like ackies sligthly better because of their stocky apearance they really look like a larger monitor in a slightly smaller size,
hope this helps


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## giggle (Oct 20, 2010)

thanks jordan

The price seems great at first... I can get a pair of ackies for $300... then I will need $200 to build them an enclosure 
So they come to a total of $500

The gillens, I already have a more than suitable enclosure here so dont need to build one.. a pair costing about $440-$500. xD So, essentially... they cost about the same. 

I've only come across people with ackies available in the near future... so availability may be the winning factor in the end 

Thanks guys


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## Daniel_Penrith (Oct 20, 2010)

ive seen gillens for 120.... Price is always going to vary... U can get a dirty looking ackie for a hundred bucks..... 
I kept both i found gillens to be more entertaining, but maybe i had a boring pair of ackies  or maybe a hyper enthusiastic pair of gillens.

Flip a coin..... or just buy both


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## giggle (Oct 20, 2010)

Daniel_Penrith said:


> Flip a coin..... or just buy both



 I think that in the future I will end up with both. Its just a matter of which first lol

I think I will go for a gillens first  now... just need to find a breeder.


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## Laghairt (Oct 20, 2010)

I'd be interested to know if ackie aggression is in any way related to enclosure size/setup. I wonder if aggression occurs when each monitor does not have enough personal space or can't get away from the other leading to territorial issues.

I suspect that if there are multiple hides and basking spots at least some aggression could be avoided. i'd be interested to hear what experienced keepers think about this.


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## giggle (Oct 20, 2010)

thats a good point anouc. I just went and watched some more vids on ackies lol dammit I want one. If gillens are smaller than ackies... zomg... ackies are small as it is!


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## Robo1 (Oct 20, 2010)

anouc said:


> I'd be interested to know if ackie aggression is in any way related to enclosure size/setup.



I had some problems with aggression and had to separate out one of mine. When I had a new, much larger, enclosure ready I moved them all into it and kept a very close eye on them. Pleased to say that I haven't had any problems. Wouldn't say that I am experienced, but it certainly made a difference in my case.

Sorry giggle, didn't mean to hijack the thread. I've only kept Ackies, but I don't think that you can go wrong with either!


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 21, 2010)

That's an interesting point anouc,

My trio (one male/ two females) were kept in a 180cmx80cm enclosure together for 3 years without too much aggression. Although the larger animal bullied the two smaller ones when they were younger, and feed times were always fun. However, when I sold them, the new owner kept them in a 120cmx60cm enclosure and contacted me a week after the sale saying I could have them back, he wanted his money back and I had to pay his $400 vet bill as the male had mauled one of the females.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 21, 2010)

I should also say, I tried later on (when I moved to Alice Springs) with another trio of youngsters and only kept these for two months because of aggression. The bullying was so bad this time, the two smaller animals stopped feeding and the larger one even used to drag the smaller ones out of their burrows by the tail. So I seperated all three and gave them away to the AS Reptile Centre. Hopefully, Justin Rutherford had more luck with them than me!


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## jordanmulder (Oct 21, 2010)

imported_Varanus said:


> That's an interesting point anouc,
> 
> My trio (one male/ two females) were kept in a 180cmx80cm enclosure together for 3 years without too much aggression. Although the larger animal bullied the two smaller ones when they were younger, and feed times were always fun. However, when I sold them, the new owner kept them in a 120cmx60cm enclosure and contacted me a week after the sale saying I could have them back, he wanted his money back and I had to pay his $400 vet bill as the male had mauled one of the females.



hmm very interesting,


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## Laghairt (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes I wonder if a lot of it has to do with the way the enclosure is set up. With many of the enclosures I've seen it would be impossible for each animal to get out of each others line of sight and the hides are shared. Additionally, most have single basking spot and therfore the animals don't have an option to aviod one another while trying to thermoregulate. Knowing that ackies have a propensity for agression I would have thought this is asking for trouble.

I've never kept ackies but if I do end up getting some, I will try to set up their enclosure in a way that will give them options to aviod one another with multiple basking spots and separate hides etc.

I'm leaning towards gillens at the moment but I am having trouble finding any for sale.


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 21, 2010)

anouc - I agree with your points, but at the same time, for a trio, that sounds like it would have to be a massive enclosure!!


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## Laghairt (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes you're probably right but I remember reading that at least one APS member solved their aggression issues by changing the setup and not the enclosure size. I like sweetangel's setup with multiple levels. This way each animal can get the privacy it needs.


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## Kristy_07 (Oct 21, 2010)

yep, sorry, when I read back more carefully I saw IV's enclosure was 180 in length, so not too massive... and yes, sweetangel has lovely set ups for her animals


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 21, 2010)

I had multiply hide sites and latex rock walls on all sides in both enclosures (how do I post a bitmap pic), but found, in the smaller enclosure, that the larger animal would, seemingly, purposefully seek out the smaller ones, although they were hidden from view, sometimes drag them out of their burrows and chase them. I always thought, perhaps I just lucked out with the second trio?


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## Laghairt (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks Kenshin the enclosure I'm working on at the moment is 900L x 600W x 900H with a fake rock background with ledges and roughly 70mm of sand as a substrate. There is also a separate section around 500h directly below this but I'm not sure if I will open up both levels at this point as I'd prefer to put something else down there, hence the preference for gillens.


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## Laghairt (Oct 21, 2010)

That's very interesting IV, I guess some ackies are just super aggressive. If I do end up getting them I guess I will have to seriously consider opening up both levels or just keeping the animals separate , which would be a shame from my perspective.

If only more people sold gillens...




imported_Varanus said:


> I had multiply hide sites and latex rock walls on all sides in both enclosures (how do I post a bitmap pic), but found, in the smaller enclosure, that the larger animal would, seemingly, purposefully seek out the smaller ones, although they were hidden from view, sometimes drag them out of their burrows and chase them. I always thought, perhaps I just lucked out with the second trio?


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 21, 2010)

Yes, where's Sdaji and Malley when you need them?


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## giggle (Oct 21, 2010)

Robo1 said:


> Sorry giggle, didn't mean to hijack the thread. I've only kept Ackies, but I don't think that you can go wrong with either!


  no worries


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## giggle (Oct 21, 2010)

its interesting to hear everyones experiences with ackie aggression  I might get mine when I feel like making a 1800x60x60+ enclosure lol xD


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## jordanmulder (Oct 21, 2010)

I think it's got alot to do with the individual personality of the animal ( whick I suppsoe in the end is another "pro" their not like robots 
if you know what I mean) for instance I've 
heard many people say that there ackies are vicious and will not tolerate handling, yet mine are very tame indeed, I think both are a good
choice, if you are going to go for both of them somewhere down the track, I would probably go for the gillens first as they are easier to look 
after and you may gain some experiance, Just my opinion, it's realy up to you.
good luck with whatever choice you make.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 21, 2010)

Sorry to harp on about Ackies, giggle, but , I'd prefer you were guaranteed an enjoyable experience as a first time varanophile ! I'm sure Gillens won't dissapoint , I had two males housed together for sometime and the most aggressive they ever became with eachother was some rather comical upright wrestling. You'll find they'll start trying to mate at a few months of age with little or no effort on the keepers behalf and are a good candidate for a monitor breeding project!


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## giggle (Oct 21, 2010)

thanks guys! And thanks IV  Gillens sound like a great starter monitor.


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