# More on traditional hunting



## waruikazi (Sep 15, 2011)

Traditional owners impose ban on dugong hunting - Australian Geographic 



> *FOUR TRADITIONAL OWNER GROUPS* have agreed not to hunt dugong for the next five years and limit their take of green turtles to 20 a year. The groups, from central Queensland, imposed the bans after negotiations with the state government, says QLD Environment Minister Vicky Darling.


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## Waterrat (Sep 15, 2011)

What a coincidence! The Aboriginies decided to put a ban on dugong hunting, and the 5 million government package was released at the same time. 
I always believed in telepathy and anticipation. :lol::lol::lol:


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## waruikazi (Sep 15, 2011)

Lol Michael, the eternal pesimist! Hahaha


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## Waterrat (Sep 15, 2011)

Yes, I do have a suspicious mind but this just screams. The AG could have at least split the story, it would have masked off the obvious. LOL

There are few poachers withing our herp community, do you think the gov would give us 5 mill package to stop it? Now, that's a positive and constructive thought. Isn't it?


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## Elapidae1 (Sep 15, 2011)

And yet will it even have any affect at all on how many they actually hunt? doubt it.


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 15, 2011)

How do they plan on actually regulating this? One thing is for the heirachy to dictate quota's, the other is for the locals to actually pay attention...


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## Waterrat (Sep 15, 2011)

"Planning" is a foreign word there. LOL
Still, one would hope that a management from within the groups is going to be more affective than if our politicians and government wildlife agencies took control.


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## Firedrake (Sep 15, 2011)

At least they've agreed to try and help the dugongs and turtles  It's a start


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## waruikazi (Sep 16, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> How do they plan on actually regulating this? One thing is for the heirachy to dictate quota's, the other is for the locals to actually pay attention...



I doubt that the 'authorites' will have anything to do with it. If this stay on hunting is to work it will be coming from within the communities themselves.


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## junglepython2 (Sep 16, 2011)

By central qld do they mean central coastal qld?


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## wokka (Sep 16, 2011)

If the problem is reduced seagrass due to recent floods, shouldn't their be plenty of seagrass to go around given the reduced Dugong numbers?


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## Enlil (Oct 13, 2011)

Obviously none of you have taken into account native culture. It is known that in their culture elders are not questioned and most would obey their derrection. A breakdown of their culture is related to long term government interference, poverty ect. And they properly have a better understanding of what is going on in their waters than most on this forum.


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2011)

We, or at least some of us have Enlil. 
The thing is, the world has changed and everybody, including the Aboriginies were affected in some ways. Hunting is an old tradition for many peoples, not only natives. My grandfather was a hunter but there is no way I could follow in his footsteps - I would end up in jail.
The aboriginal people need to realise that they can't have the best of both worlds and that some of their traditional customs, namely hunting needs to be curtailed. It's time we all pull the same rope otherwise there will be nothing (wildlife) left for anyone. What's the point having National Parks, marine and terrestrial, that are open to traditional hunting?


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> We, or at least some of us have Enlil.
> The thing is, the world has changed and everybody, including the Aboriginies were affected in some ways. Hunting is an old tradition for many peoples, not only natives. My grandfather was a hunter but there is no way I could follow in his footsteps - I would end up in jail.
> *The aboriginal people need to realise that they can't have the best of both worlds and that some of their traditional customs, namely hunting needs to be curtailed.* It's time we all pull the same rope otherwise there will be nothing (wildlife) left for anyone. What's the point having National Parks, marine and terrestrial, that are open to traditional hunting?



Why not?

I'm not Indigenous, but i still hunt native animals (legally) for food.


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## kawasakirider (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Why not?



If they can have the best of both worlds, why can't everyone go out and hunt Dugongs?


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> If they can have the best of both worlds, why can't everyone go out and hunt Dugongs?



As facetious as your question is i almost agree with the point it is trying to make. I do think that everyone should be treated the same way, if it is sustainably done i don't see a reason a good reason why everyone shouldn't be allowed to harvest any animal.


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2011)

Gordo, you and the natives are not dependent on this foot source. You both have access to supermarket. You and they do it for fun, they do it under the name "cultural tradition", which you can't claim. It's a fickle world we're living in.


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## kawasakirider (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> As facetious as your question is i almost agree with the point it is trying to make. I do think that everyone should be treated the same way, if it is sustainably done i don't see a reason a good reason why everyone shouldn't be allowed to harvest any animal.



I wasn't trying to be a smart***, it was a genuine question. We actually see eye to eye on something. My only gripe with the way Aborigines are treated, is that they do have the best of both worlds (if they want it), and I don't see why no one else can.


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## SperO (Oct 13, 2011)

I work in a lot of remote communities and elders just don't have the pull they used to. But then back in the day if you misbehaved punishments were often a spear through the leg, sometimes for more severe offenses through the achilles heel. Thats a limp for life if it didn't get infected. A lot more than six months jail with option for parole in 2 months.

I have no problem with traditional people still being allowed to hunt even if we aren't. As long as they hunt traditionally. Most indigenous people are using guns which is just not fair. To shoot a turtle is hardly "traditional"

Canada has the same problem with Native American's being allowed to shoot bears even if its a reserve. Honestly if you want to go kill an endangered bear then you do it the old way with a spear and good old fashioned footwork.


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

I know the reasons different people hunt for their food. I do it for food and fun. Indigenous people would likely do it for the same reasons and also to keep that aspect of their culture alive. There is actually a whole lot more to traditional hunting than just killing and eating an animal. I don't have any problems with this at all so long as it is sustainable. 

I know we aren't dependant on these food sources. Same as we aren't dependant on fish, but we still eat it (and the vast majority is wild caught). There is nothing wrong with hunting for food, be it traditional or non traditional, as long as it is sustainable. 



Waterrat said:


> Gordo, you and the natives are not dependent on this foot source. You both have access to supermarket. You and they do it for fun, they do it under the name "cultural tradition", which you can't claim. It's a fickle world we're living in.


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

ANd i'll just make the point that i've made lots of times in other threads on this topic. 

The biggest threat to biodiversity in Australia and the world is habitat destruction, not hunting. If you want to kick up a song and dance about protecting wildlife, wether it is threatened, near exticition or of least concern then kick up a stink about the industries that we are feeding with our demands for farmed foods, energy, houses and other resources. They are doing serious damage to our ecosystems.


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## Wild~Touch (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> ANd i'll just make the point that i've made lots of times in other threads on this topic.
> 
> The biggest threat to biodiversity in Australia and the world is habitat destruction, not hunting. If you want to kick up a song and dance about protecting wildlife, wether it is threatened, near exticition or of least concern then kick up a stink about the industries that we are feeding with our demands for farmed foods, energy, houses and other resources. They are doing serious damage to our ecosystems.



Mining is one of the worst ... my beautiful area is threatened at this moment  Government allows it under the guise of making jobs available ... pppfffttt


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## ianinoz (Oct 13, 2011)

Traditional hunting rights are not the problem for these animals, it's professional fishing + land development (building flash expensive housing estates bang on top of the habitat , and industrial use the land = invariably destroying the wild habitat in the name of profit to dig up minerals and ores or drill for oil and natural gas and the location of beneficiation plants there) and the polluting of the waters and rivers that are the problems. Even more so when the majority of the jobs created by these developments are overseas in places like China, Japan, and just about anywhere other than here in Australia , and we then have to buy back the stuff turned into cars, TVs, computers and the like.

A few thousand aboriginals (living on reserves or in town) going out and taking dugon or a turtle every so often to provide good quality meat for their families is not going to have as significant an effect on the populations of these animals as commercial fishing, sugar cane growing, banana growing, urban development (on the coast and right on the beach), and heavy industrial and mining activities will have on them.


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2011)

This is IMO not about saving species or habitats, it's about the philosophy of hunting, rights and obligations. 
40 years ago I could have gone to what is now a National Park, shoot a crocodile and have it on BBQ. If I could still do it today - would I? No, because times, perceptions and the laws have changed ........ for some.


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## D3pro (Oct 13, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Gordo, you and the natives are not dependent on this foot source. You both have access to supermarket.



I just spat out my drink... "you guys could just throw a spear at the BBQ chicken at coles" LOL.


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## tropicbreeze (Oct 13, 2011)

"What a tangled web we weave." Many non-Aborigines go hunting. Activities like fishing, shooting, bow hunting, and even the pig hunters who go in with pig dogs and knives. You could also add falconing, although I don't know how much of that goes on here. They could always get their fish, meat, etc., from the supermarket. But of course there's a lot who don't do the hunting bit and stick to supermarkets. Of those that do get into the hunting, there's quite a few who do it in breach of the law. It's a part of human nature. 

When it comes to Aborigines, it's much the same story, some do, some don't. In all cultures there's laws/regulations brought in because some elements of society will not do the right thing. And then you get changes to laws/regulations. So this is a change being brought in and some people have a problem with that?


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## Waterrat (Oct 13, 2011)

I better stick to the reptile topics.


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## cmack91 (Oct 13, 2011)

whats it like to have aboriginals down there? (im from america ) we dont have any tribal people here, has anyone met any of them, what are they like? i know this is a dumb question, but please bear with me


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## D3pro (Oct 13, 2011)

cmack91 said:


> whats it like to have aboriginals down there? (im from america ) we dont have any tribal people here, has anyone met any of them, what are they like? i know this is a dumb question, but please bear with me



You have native Indians don't you?


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

'have'? Like we keep Indigenous people as pets? I know that was unintentional, but be careful of the language you use, there are indigenous forum members here and talking like that is offensive even to me. 

According to some Americans i spoke to last week they sya that Indig Aussies live extremely similarly to Native Americans.



cmack91 said:


> whats it like to have aboriginals down there? (im from america ) we dont have any tribal people here, has anyone met any of them, what are they like? i know this is a dumb question, but please bear with me


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## cmack91 (Oct 13, 2011)

D3pro said:


> You have native Indians don't you?


 yeah, let me rephrase, do they stick to the aboriginal ways, or do they livw in town? cause all the native americans here just own casinos and cadillacs


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## D3pro (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> 'have'? Like we keep Indigenous people as pets?



I was personally referring to the country itself and not the "white man". Australia is multicultural and "has" many races and cultures. (Hope that cleared things up)


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

D3pro said:


> I was personally referring to the country itself and not the "white man". Australia is multicultural and "has" many races and cultures. (Hope that cleared things up)



That wasn't to you depro.


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

Our laws don't allow Indigenous people to live a traditional indigenous lifestyle. 

Like any community, some people choose to live on indigenous land and others choose to live in major cities and with everything inbetween.



cmack91 said:


> yeah, let me rephrase, do they stick to the aboriginal ways, or do they livw in town? cause all the native americans here just own casinos and cadillacs


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 13, 2011)

cmack91 said:


> yeah, let me rephrase, do they stick to the aboriginal ways, or do they livw in town? cause all the native americans here just own casinos and cadillacs


YeaYeah right, every native American in the country owns a casino and a cadillac


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## cmack91 (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> 'have'? Like we keep Indigenous people as pets? I know that was unintentional, but be careful of the language you use, there are indigenous forum members here and talking like that is offensive even to me.
> 
> According to some Americans i spoke to last week they sya that Indig Aussies live extremely similarly to Native Americans.



sorry, i meant no disrespect. its just 99% of the native americans here have given up their traditional ways for modern society, i just find it sad that they, like most of america, have become greedy, and use the fact that their native to their advantage to get lower (or no) taxes, or unregulated fishing/hunting rights, and land, wich all they do is build casinos on. and its not that i have anything against wanting a more comfortable, easier life, or that i think they shouldnt have these rights, but it seems that all the tribes here (or 99% of them), have completly forgotten their traditions. i was wondering if there are still tribes living the way they always have been, for however long they have been there. and i ask that you please forgive me for my ignorance, once again i am american, and im just trying to learn about other cultures and societies.


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

Cmack i live in a remote Indigenous community, which i assume is the equivelant of your reserves. 

I haven't met an adult out here that doesn't want to keep their culture alive and as strong as possible. But i also have Indig friends who live in our capital city who live a completely western lifestyle. 

Like any culture, over time outside influences will change them and it is not upto the people who are not part of that culture to decide what goes in and what goes out of that culture.


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## cmack91 (Oct 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Like any culture, over time outside influences will change them and it is not upto the people who are not part of that culture to decide what goes in and what goes out of that culture.


i agree that its not up to "outsiders" to decide what different cultures do, and thats not what im trying to imply. but there is litterally ONE tribe left in america that still lives a completly traditional, non-western lifestyle, and i know it is up the the individual person too. i was just curious if there were still tribes that live a completly traditional life, of course with the occasional trading or whatnot.


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## SperO (Oct 13, 2011)

I think one of the biggest problems now is that the younger generation doesn't really try to keep the culture they've gotten lazy and you know what its the same for western society. As the technological age is here kids are lazier, have shorter attention spans. Gone are old traditions times are changing. I know a lot of elders wish to keep traditions alive but I think they are going about it wrong.

- Just wanted to add sadly I don't have the answer.


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## waruikazi (Oct 13, 2011)

Usually i see that attitude change (where the people still have access to there indigenous culture) once they have kids. 



SperO said:


> I think one of the biggest problems now is that the younger generation doesn't really try to keep the culture they've gotten lazy and you know what its the same for western society. As the technological age is here kids are lazier, have shorter attention spans. Gone are old traditions times are changing. I know a lot of elders wish to keep traditions alive but I think they are going about it wrong.
> 
> - Just wanted to add sadly I don't have the answer.


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