# Boelen python, any OS members have one?



## FusionMorelia (Jun 18, 2011)

was pokeing about some forums and on the web and found a refrence to this stunning little guy in the morelia pool are there any OS members who have one? 
i would love to hear more about this stunner snake, check this out!














check out some of the google pics of them some are amazing!GOOGLE PICS
Nato


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## lgotje (Jun 18, 2011)

there not native to aus mate but amazing animals 

also there more so related to gtps than any other species i believe? correct me if im wrong


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 18, 2011)

yeah i kno their from OS thats why i asked if any OS members had one, im aware i cant have one but i would like to know more about them if possible i think their awesome!
for a second there u had me thinking i posted in the wrong forum lol


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## lgotje (Jun 18, 2011)

lol i think there really rare in captivity and are hard to breed but if u look up over seas sites there is a couple of people who specialise in them


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 18, 2011)

kool thanks m8

there a wicked looking morelia its got me thinking about moving out of aust  ...naaaa never i will just collect pics and keep reading for weird snakes i just found some freaky looking one from iran its got this crazy looking spike tail man theirs some wild looking snakes out there


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## lgotje (Jun 18, 2011)

N.A.T.O said:


> kool thanks m8
> 
> there a wicked looking morelia its got me thinking about moving out of aust  ...naaaa never i will just collect pics and keep reading for weird snakes i just found some freaky looking one from iran its got this crazy looking spike tail man theirs some wild looking snakes out there


 what is it post a pic


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## hugsta (Jun 18, 2011)

They have probelms breeding them due to the fact they are a high altitude animal, and it is believed that has a lot of influence on their breeding. I think some have been bred in captivity, but extremely rare. ARP used to have one quite a few years ago. I had some pics of it somewhere. Stunning animal to see in the flesh.


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 18, 2011)

lgotje said:


> what is it post a pic


 
its called "Pseudocerastes urarachnoides" 




check out its tail!




" its only been described within the last 7 years or so, and so little is known about it, that it does not even have a common name. If you google this snake, you will find that all links point back to just one or two existing (yet very short) papers or photos of the animal."


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## jack (Jun 19, 2011)

lgotje said:


> also there more so related to gtps than any other species i believe? correct me if im wrong



more likely to M. amethistina, which they look like. they seem (based on bone structure) to be a link between scrubbies and carpets (Brongersma, 1953). 
i am not aware of genetic work having been done on them... 
would love to know of anything recent on them, i really like this species.


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 19, 2011)

they are an unusual morelia thats for sure love the rainbow on them and the chunky rough head lol


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## snakeluvver (Jun 19, 2011)

Strangely enough, Boeleni are on the species list for QLD license.

Oh wait thats the White Lipped Python, still exotic though :?


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 19, 2011)

what!?!...damn qld are azz backwards at times

so its high altitude, morelia and close to a scrubbie? or GTP and very rare in captivity anyone know how big they grow.


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## snakeluvver (Jun 19, 2011)

N.A.T.O said:


> what!?!...damn qld are azz backwards at times


 
The list I was given was pretty old though, they had Golden Tailed Geckoes as restricted.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jun 19, 2011)

N.A.T.O said:


> its called "Pseudocerastes urarachnoides"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
man i wish more people would post this stuff its so intersting.
So much better than post pics of your childrens python/diamond/etc thread we get subjected too lol


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 19, 2011)

agreed, with somany weird and wonderfull animals about its a shame we dont get more weird threads,
that snake from iran is one of thoes few that hunt by useing its tail as bait they have a couple of amazing looking racer snakes too


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## longqi (Jun 21, 2011)

Totally protected snake from fairly limited areas of PNG 
A few turn up in Papua [Iryan Jaya] now and then
Lot of work going on right now with pretty successful breeding programs
Would be classed in the highly endangered list I think
Most wild caught adults die
Youngsters seem to do ok but not a beginners snake
Those photos are of fairly pretty ones
Not many look that clearly defined


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## Boidae (Jun 21, 2011)

I wish mate, they look incredible


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## blakehose (Jun 21, 2011)

Hands down the best Morelia in the world!


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## jedi_339 (Jun 21, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> The list I was given was pretty old though, they had Golden Tailed Geckoes as restricted.


 
I think Golden tails are still restricted in QLD due to their conservation status, the latest list from DERM states that any vulnerable or threatened reptiles are classified as restricted reptiles in QLD.

But QLD is really backwards, any native mammals are completely off limits, QLD still considers Wild dogs and dingoes to be one in the same regardless of the purity of the strain.


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## longqi (Jun 21, 2011)

Cannot be compared in beauty to a Chondro or even a good Palmerston
Only their rarity really makes them special to collectors
Lot chunkier than most morelia


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## Nighthawk (Jun 21, 2011)

longqi said:


> Cannot be compared in beauty to a Chondro or even a good Palmerston
> Only their rarity really makes them special to collectors
> Lot chunkier than most morelia



I'm inclined to disagree, but then again most species of snake I find very beautiful. I love that rainbow sheen to them, and the contrast is wicked. Personally I think the comparison lacks mainly in the very different morphs of each species, they've all got something very attractive about them. Vibrance, personality... there's something I like in pretty much any reptile


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## DanN (Jun 21, 2011)

There are no successful breeding populations of this species. The problem is not with breeding per se but with getting fertile eggs.

They occur through-out most of the central mountain ranges in New Guinea. They are fully protected in PNG but until recently West Papua had an annual quota of around 150 heads per year. Despite claims of successfuly captive breeding, I suspect all Boelens pythons leaving Indonesia are wild-caught.

Dan


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## snakeluvver (Jun 21, 2011)

I think Boelens rival a scrubbie or a GTP as best looking Morelia, hard to choose just one though.


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## jack (Jun 21, 2011)

DanN said:


> There are no successful breeding populations of this species. The problem is not with breeding per se but with getting fertile eggs.
> 
> They occur through-out most of the central mountain ranges in New Guinea. They are fully protected in PNG but until recently West Papua had an annual quota of around 150 heads per year. Despite claims of successfuly captive breeding, I suspect all Boelens pythons leaving Indonesia are wild-caught.
> 
> Dan


 
there are photos of copulation, eggs, maternal brooding and hatchlings in a book i have called "Black Python Morelia boeleni" by Flagle and Stoops.


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## DanN (Jun 21, 2011)

Hi Jack,

Not one of those things proves they were captive bred  Don't get me wrong, it has been done (about five times I think, in the US and maybe once in Europe), but in Indonesia..... maybe, but personally I think... unlikely.

Dan


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## longqi (Jun 21, 2011)

There will be an update of a book released shortly
Between original authors and a lovely Indonesian who is at the coal face with these
Also 2 pommies have successfully bred last 2 years

PNG still has a wild caught quota of 125 adults


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## jack (Jun 21, 2011)

unfortunately quite true dan... but i'd like to think the best of people. 

a new edition: bugger, now i have to buy that as well... 

you sure on the png quota? i thought they were untouchable there.


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## longqi (Jun 21, 2011)

Every responsible reptile keeper wants them protected at home
But money talks
So PNG allowed 125 adults be collected last year and same will apply this year if they dont amend the law
Supposedly they only go to zoos etc
But most vanish as soon as they get off-shore


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## Australis (Jun 21, 2011)

Ive seen this species in zoos ive visited o/s, if it wasn't for the larger scales it would just look like a carpet variant. Still an impressive species though.


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## FusionMorelia (Jun 21, 2011)

longqi said:


> Cannot be compared in beauty to a Chondro or even a good Palmerston
> Only their rarity really makes them special to collectors
> Lot chunkier than most morelia


 
nice Opinion,


> Every responsible reptile keeper wants them protected at home
> But money talks
> So PNG allowed 125 adults be collected last year and same will apply this year if they dont amend the law
> Supposedly they only go to zoos etc
> But most vanish as soon as they get off-shore


no offence but got a source?


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## longqi (Jun 21, 2011)

Its in my papers somewhere
Will dig them out
But those papers contain the official quotas for legal export of all species from PNG in 2010/11
Pretty scary reading with the numbers of CITES listed beasties on there

It was only dropped to 125 after pretty heavy pressure by conservationists


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## jack (Jun 22, 2011)

would love to see them make it here. 
taronga has some zaglossus now, hopefully some other png stuff makes its way to public zoos rather than rich fauna collectors.


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## DanN (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Longqi,

PNG does not have a quota for Boelens, they don't (legally) export a single CITES listed species (see Export quotas for Indonesian quotas).

As you will see, Indonesia has a zero harvest quota for Boelens in 2011 and has had a zero harvest quota since 2001 - which was 112 heads! 

Despite this, Indonesia exported 106 in 2007, 131 in 2008 and 159 in 2010 - all of these which were supposedly captive bred. For a species which the rest of the world can't breed, has high hatchling and adult mortality rates and is completely unknown ecologically well… that’s amazing.

In fact, Indonesians must be the most prolific breeders of this species ever. Despite the animals coming from 2000m+ New Guinea and being bred at sweltering sea level in Java and Bali.

Now that’s cynicism for ya... 

Dan


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## jack (Jun 22, 2011)

i didnt think png allowed harvest of them. what an interesting site. thanks for that dan


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## haz1111 (Jun 22, 2011)

what crazy looking snakes....


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## longqi (Jun 22, 2011)

DanN said:


> Hi Longqi,
> 
> PNG does not have a quota for Boelens, they don't (legally) export a single CITES listed species (see Export quotas for Indonesian quotas)._
> PNG exported 125 legally last year and have same quota this year unless changed in last few months
> ...



cynicism about Indonesia farming is still very very warranted


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## DanN (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi Longqi,

Do you have any record of the exports from PNG? You are talking about Papua New Guinea, the eastern half of the island of New Guinea? Not having a go at all - just interested as it is news to me...

I'm not sure I know of any Indonesian facilities that are authentically breeding, hatching and raising Boeleni.....?

Dan


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## longqi (Jun 22, 2011)

Yes Dan
talking about Papua New Guinea
I didnt believe it myself until someone sent me their official figures for last year 2010 
It was definitely 125 adults collected and supplied to zoos and exhibits
Same figure was proposed for this year but conservationists were fighting it
Papers are here somewhere in a box
Will sort through the disaster area and find them for you

2 farms here are definitely right up there with Boelens
The Bali one and the ones in coastal Java were just selling wild caught from Irian Jaya
Bali closed the snake program recently if you meant the one near Gianyar
Only does turtles and lizards now

If you recall the Lake Kabutu chondros you will know who one of the successful breeders is
They are co-authoring the next book
Maybe if you speak Russian and visit Kalimantan you might find another one who is very very quiet about some interesting projects he has going


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## Timtindle (Jun 22, 2011)

Just a little info I know on them, bushmaster in the US brings a few in which are sold in the states and Europe, all the captive bred animals are males, they can handle cold temps perfectly (below 50f) and the generally retail in the uk for £2000. 

This website has a lot of info 

BoelensPythons.com - Welcome


Hope some of that helped

Tim


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## longqi (Jun 23, 2011)

A lot of that is being talked about now
although they can handle the cold like Diamonds do it seems temperature has a huge bearing on the sex of the hatchies [much like crocs??]
50F may be ok for short periods so long as there was residual warmth in the rocks etc
The mountains they come from certainly get cold at night but also get heavy rains and are very hot during the day
Lots of them have been located in caves


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## waruikazi (Jun 23, 2011)

Lonqui, I don't know what the mountains in PNG/Indo are like but while we are talking about residual heat in rocks, caves and microclimates i have a question for you. 

Out here in the West Arnhem escarpment our ambient temps get nearly as low as 50F (12-15C) at night but as the night temps creep in you get a very distinct layer of warm air only 10-15m off the ground which is atleast 5C warmer, probably more. I think this effect is going to stump the people who have tried/will try to breed one of our iconic snakes. Dioes anything like that happen in that area (with high daytime temps i would assume it has to) and could a similar effect be what is stumping the breeders of this species too?




longqi said:


> A lot of that is being talked about now
> although they can handle the cold like Diamonds do it seems temperature has a huge bearing on the sex of the hatchies [much like crocs??]
> 50F may be ok for short periods so long as there was residual warmth in the rocks etc
> The mountains they come from certainly get cold at night but also get heavy rains and are very hot during the day
> Lots of them have been located in caves


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## longqi (Jun 23, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Lonqui, I don't know what the mountains in PNG/Indo are like but while we are talking about residual heat in rocks, caves and microclimates i have a question for you.
> 
> Out here in the West Arnhem escarpment our ambient temps get nearly as low as 50F (12-15C) at night but as the night temps creep in you get a very distinct layer of warm air only 10-15m off the ground which is atleast 5C warmer, probably more. I think this effect is going to stump the people who have tried/will try to breed one of our iconic snakes. Dioes anything like that happen in that area (with high daytime temps i would assume it has to) and could a similar effect be what is stumping the breeders of this species too?



Most of the caves they have been found in are distinctly warmer at night than the surrounding jungle
Similar temperature swings between day and night
Its very different to the Arnhem Land rocky outcrops being pretty tough/damp jungle rather than scrub like you have
Its a lot higher altitude too with 90% of Boelens being found up high ie, 1500metres plus
Not many below that
But very similar with microclimates


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## waruikazi (Jun 23, 2011)

Cheers for the response mate, just to clarify i wasn't suggesting that the habitats were similar (therr's about 1200m of altitude difference for a start). Just alot of people seem to discount or overlook the idea of microclimates and their importance to different animal life cycles.



longqi said:


> Most of the caves they have been found in are distinctly warmer at night than the surrounding jungle
> Similar temperature swings between day and nighte
> Its very different to the Arnhem Land rocky outcrops being pretty tough/damp jungle rather than scrub like you have
> Its a lot higher altitude too with 90% of Boelens being found up high ie, 1500metres plus
> ...


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## DanN (Jun 23, 2011)

Hi Longqi,

Thank you for the clarification. I woud be interested in seeing the PNG quota if you have the time. I had another quick look on the CITES Trade Database and didn't come across anything - but it can be tempremental.

While I don't want to get into it on an internet forum, I still have my doubts about both breeders you're refering to. Will leave it at that 

Dan


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## longqi (Jun 23, 2011)

I will find it eventually Dan
Might be a few days though

Completely agree about strange goings on at most breeders over here but Kalimantan is doing some great work with CB chondros and Boelens were his next step
He gave me some really good tips on Dragon snakes that worked so I think hes fair dinkum

Waruikazi
The caves are very selectively chosen by the Boelens
Even though that mountain range travels virtually the whole length of the island, including Iryan Jaya [Papua] the Boeleni caves are seldom found on the Southern faces of the mountains, even if the caves there seem the same
It is very close to the Equator but these ones must have just a couple of degrees difference in temperature?
If you can imagine the Kokoda trail x 5 you begin to understand the harshness of their native environment
There is simply zero access to some parts of that country

Micro-climates are probably much more important to many species than we understand yet


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## hurcorh (Jun 26, 2011)

pretty sure i read about a breeding program that will be happening in NT with the Boelens python.


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## Australis (Jun 28, 2011)

hurcorh said:


> pretty sure i read about a breeding program that will be happening in NT with the Boelens python.



You might be confusing the species.


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## elfwing_m (Jul 17, 2011)

I have a pair, I'm an Aussie living in Kuala Lumpur and now looking at importing some nice "Aussies", like Diamonds bred in the US and Black Headed Pythons bred in Sweden. I miss my Aussie collection!
Michael


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## Mo Deville (May 30, 2012)

N.A.T.O said:


> was pokeing about some forums and on the web and found a refrence to this stunning little guy in the morelia pool are there any OS members who have one?
> i would love to hear more about this stunner snake, check this out!
> 
> 
> ...



these are sooo sick man!!!


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