# Can you ID this.



## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

Hay guys. 

Mate of mine bred this..

Have a guess at what it is.


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## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

GTP! hehe soz ..


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## orientalis (Mar 14, 2010)

*...*

At first glance it looked like it could have been anything from a coastal taipan, or a brown, or even a black.........but i'm going with...............Tiger!


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## Jimi (Mar 14, 2010)

Red Belly


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## TigerCoastal (Mar 14, 2010)

copperhead?


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## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

ill go CH to


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## Slats (Mar 14, 2010)

tiger


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

Eastern Brown or Taipan


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## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

im swapping to taipan..the eyes.. mmmmmmm 8)


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## TigerCoastal (Mar 14, 2010)

whats next schizmz??? a green anaconda???


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## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

Lol..eyelash viper!


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## orientalis (Mar 14, 2010)

Originally i thought a Coastal or a Brown......then maybe a black, no definately a tiger.............after having a good look at the head scalation, i'm guessing Taipan too.

Well done sturdy, they are good pic's....and obviously confusing to id correctly.

How old is it?

That is extremely difficult to identify....what is it?


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow so gorgeous ...I am in two minds as to what I think it could be ...but will wait till ya spill the beans


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## ShnakeyGirl (Mar 14, 2010)

Nawwww....so beautiful. Taipan.


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

Its only a few weeks old. 

Keep guessing....


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## bigi (Mar 14, 2010)

no, i cannot correctly identify it


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## eipper (Mar 14, 2010)

can I spoil it yet


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## da_donkey (Mar 14, 2010)

EB


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

eipper said:


> can I spoil it yet


BAHHHHHH HA HA HA ..........eeny meany mony moooooeeeee....I do know one thing its an elapid :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## maculosis_mandy (Mar 14, 2010)

I think a juvenile coastal taipan


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## Blondie84 (Mar 14, 2010)

Red belly black


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## HOM3L3SS (Mar 14, 2010)

its a snake lol


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## Kurama (Mar 14, 2010)

Red-bellied black snake.


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

give us a hint ...what are the main makeups of its venom ? 

Yield? 
is it strongly neurotoxic and coagulant ..?
or strongly haemolytic and cytotoxic?.....?


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## maculosis_mandy (Mar 14, 2010)

where was it found?


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## eipper (Mar 14, 2010)

maculosis_mandy said:


> where was it found?




coming out of an adult female


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

eipper said:


> coming out of an adult female


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:....COME ON EIPPER ...little hint wont hurt now


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## aprice (Mar 14, 2010)

Amazing how many 'herpers' can't ID common aussie elapids...


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## maculosis_mandy (Mar 14, 2010)

Is it an inland taipan?


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## Blondie84 (Mar 14, 2010)

aprice said:


> Amazing how many 'herpers' can't ID common aussie elapids...



So what is it then?!?!?!?!


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## ChimeraProNG (Mar 14, 2010)

help everyone out with some full body pics and maybe a belly shot too. i know what it isn't and thats Notechis, Pseudechis, Oxyuranus and Acanthopis. I going to take a wild guess with the pics availible and say dugite or penisula brown, but maybe whip snake lesser or greater black. ok scott what is it then?:lol::lol:


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## eipper (Mar 14, 2010)

I will say what it is later on....or Sturdy will.....maybe this should serve as a lesson to some people that cannot id snakes to maybe refrain from doing it in the future....after all its an easy one. As for more pics I would post them...but after the repeated theft of my images i am no longer putting them on websites

Cheers,
Scott


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## Blondie84 (Mar 14, 2010)

Wow i thought this was just a little bit of fun.... not a big lecture. As I dont profess to know anything and was just having a bit of a guess I'm going to just wait for the answer.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

Sturdy did say have a guess


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## Blondie84 (Mar 14, 2010)

geckoman said:


> sturdy did say have a guess



exactly!!!


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

eipper said:


> I will say what it is later on....or Sturdy will.....maybe this should serve as a lesson to some people that cannot id snakes to maybe refrain from doing it in the future....after all its an easy one. As for more pics I would post them...but after the repeated theft of my images i am no longer putting them on websites
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott


so you saying Scott ..thats its not a gtp ? 

I dont mind people having a guess at ID ..its a way of learning ..if they word it as I think its a ...cant see a problem at all ...even the best can make a few mistakes in it first glance now ..
I myself will be honest it has stumped me ...but my two thoughts were either young GB whip ..or leaning towards the Pseudonaja....which one well thats the hard part :lol::lol:


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## bluereptile (Mar 14, 2010)

i have no clue what it is so im going to guess highlands copperhead?


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## eipper (Mar 14, 2010)

yes it is not gtp...

what I am saying is that a number of people throw out id's of species without saying if they are sure or not....think about the consequences if someone had been bitten by this snake.....and the treatment was adjusted to what that species so called is.....we have number of genera let alone species that have been suggested.

By all means I am all for learning, but it should be said that you taking a guess...not trying say emphatically what it is.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Jasspa (Mar 14, 2010)

> what I am saying is that a number of people throw out id's of species without saying if they are sure or not....think about the consequences if someone had been bitten by this snake.....and the treatment was adjusted to what that species so called is.....we have number of genera let alone species that have been suggested.
> 
> By all means I am all for learning, but it should be said that you taking a guess...not trying say emphatically what it is.


If I was bitten by this snake, I wouldn't be posting an id thread on the forum, not that I don't trust you all or anything :shock: 

I may not know what it is, but by taking a 'stab-in-the-dark' I have a bit of fun but when someone says what it actually is I can look at it and go, 'oh yeah, its not a taipan like I first thought because they have different coloured eyes than that (or something to that effect). Some small little detail like that, that I have overlooked can be a little learning curve for future.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

eipper said:


> yes it is not gtp...
> 
> what I am saying is that a number of people throw out id's of species without saying if they are sure or not....think about the consequences if someone had been bitten by this snake.....and the treatment was adjusted to what that species so called is.....we have number of genera let alone species that have been suggested.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone has made out they are 100% with any off their answers, the thread op said take a guess, so that's what I and everyone else did imo.

Thanks Gex


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 14, 2010)

Please can u tell us now, this is like waiting to open Xmas presents, I was thinking brown snake of some sort though not sure there bodies are that dark, 2nd guess tiger.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

Dwarf King Brown?


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## ReptilianGuy (Mar 14, 2010)

On second thought, I think it's a Spotted Black Snake.


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## schizmz (Mar 14, 2010)

think ill stick with ..inland taipan 8)


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

Here it is.


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

Sturdy said:


> Here it is.


A RRBS, so Jimi had it in the 4th post?


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## TigerCoastal (Mar 14, 2010)

Rbb


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## Origamislice (Mar 14, 2010)

umm is it a hybrid? looks like a cross between a tiapan and RBB snake


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

orangesnake101 said:


> umm is it a hybrid? looks like a cross between a tiapan and RBB snake



Man you picked it, it is a red belly x taipan.


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## Origamislice (Mar 14, 2010)

hahaha i rock!!!!!!


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## DanTheMan (Mar 14, 2010)

eipper said:


> yes it is not gtp...
> 
> what I am saying is that a number of people throw out id's of species without saying if they are sure or not....think about the consequences if someone had been bitten by this snake.....and the treatment was adjusted to what that species so called is.....we have number of genera let alone species that have been suggested.
> 
> ...



Although this may have been a fun guessing game, I agree with you. I get sick of looking at an ID thread to see 20 replies of people just throwing random species around hoping to guess right. Majority of the time they're not even in the right genus and I struggle to see how they came to that conclusion, unfortunately this won't be changing any time soon these people being the majority, which sometimes pushes the more knowledgeable minority away from the forum which is what I've been seeing lately.


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## chaniisnakelover (Mar 14, 2010)

wow, absolutely gorgeous mate
i cant believe after all that someone finally got it haha


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

Its not a RBBS x Taipan


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## ShaunMorelia (Mar 14, 2010)

im guessing it is a _Hoplocephalus stephensii_ "Stephens' Banded Snake


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

Its a Red belly.... For those who are still trying to work it out


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2010)

mate untill i get a full body shot im 95% rbb


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2010)

yep throw apples at me im a little behind


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## Niall (Mar 14, 2010)

Only just found this.

The Last picture gave it away, when you clicked onto the picture for a closer look the picture was named "rbb" haha.
It was a good laugh.


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> yep throw apples at me im a little behind



lol, one sexy looking red belly but,.


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

Niall said:


> Only just found this.
> 
> The Last picture gave it away, when you clicked onto the picture for a closer look the picture was named "rbb" haha.
> It was a good laugh.



that was deliberate.....


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## [email protected] (Mar 14, 2010)

Sturdy said:


> lol, one sexy looking red belly but,.


other then a albino rbb i recon its the best i have seen


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## Poggle (Mar 14, 2010)

simple scale counting might have helped some


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## cement (Mar 14, 2010)

Hey Sturdy, is there a locale to that one ? The ones I catch down here on the Central Coast have a brown nose but one I caught out at the watagans had more brown over the face but not to that extent.


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## redbellybite (Mar 14, 2010)

Unreal ..absolutely cute as ...and common! ha ha ...me bad I thought it wouldnt be that obvious would it!!!! and thought a bit out of the square ...wow have never seen a hatchie with such a light head .....well ya got me  ...ya know had you given that clue I asked for "_or strongly haemolytic and cytotoxic?.....? " bah ha haha_


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## Jessica_lee (Mar 14, 2010)

i think the clue was "coming out of a female snake"


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 14, 2010)

DanTheMan said:


> Although this may have been a fun guessing game, I agree with you. I get sick of looking at an ID thread to see 20 replies of people just throwing random species around hoping to guess right. Majority of the time they're not even in the right genus and I struggle to see how they came to that conclusion, unfortunately this won't be changing any time soon these people being the majority, which sometimes pushes the more knowledgeable minority away from the forum which is what I've been seeing lately.[/QUOTE
> 
> Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.


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## ChimeraProNG (Mar 14, 2010)

G don't i look silly I should've known better. Good game though:lol::lol:


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## Sturdy (Mar 14, 2010)

when looking at this lil rbb in a tub.. it appears to have pale sides instead of the red.. 

the pics make the red on the sides look alot more red then they are. 

its more of a pale red..


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 14, 2010)

This want an ID thread cos the guy didn't know what it was, this thread was posted because it was an unusual specimen and the thread op was hoping to catch people out, that why he save "have a guess".
I don't know why you guys are having a whinge cause we got it wrong


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## waruikazi (Mar 15, 2010)

steve1 said:


> Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.



If you're gonna have a flat out guess at elapid ID's then you shouldn't look at them. If you can't understand how dangerous it can be to mis identify an elapid then you really need to stay out of these threads.


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## da_donkey (Mar 15, 2010)

this thread has gone to the dogs, please lock it mods.

people had a guess and now it has been identifed, it was obviously posted as a curly one.

dosent need to turn into a sling fest.


donks


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## No-two (Mar 15, 2010)

It's a nice looking snake but not for a red-bellied, the light head is gross I much prefer them with jet black noses, each to their own I guess.


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 15, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> If you're gonna have a flat out guess at elapid ID's then you shouldn't look at them. If you can't understand how dangerous it can be to mis identify an elapid then you really need to stay out of these threads.



Guessing at pictures is a form of learning, chances are I am not going to get bitten by a picture on my computer screen. If i come across any snake in the wild and am not 110% sure then I will keep my distance, anyone that's unsure and still decides to handle in my opinion is a fool. IF IN DOUBT TREAT ALL SNAKES AS POTENTIALLY DEADLY. If people like you are so worried that others could put themselves at risk by these guessing games then the responsible approach would be to not post them.


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## TWENTY B (Mar 15, 2010)

i've herd of these "white head" red bellies.
so i picked it pretty quick. 
i quite like the look, it's something a little unusual, but not the kind of RBB i'd want to own


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## Ryan93 (Mar 15, 2010)

It looks like a Coastal Taipan to me, beautiful snake though


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## Jessica_lee (Mar 15, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> If you're gonna have a flat out guess at elapid ID's then you shouldn't look at them. If you can't understand how dangerous it can be to mis identify an elapid then you really need to stay out of these threads.


 

waruikazi, the thread was about having an estimate. I find these really helpful for getting an objective id.

And there is nothing wrong with having a guess in a thread like this.

perhaps if the thread was titled "snake in my loungeroom - please id" then people who really dont know shouldnt guess, but in this particular thread it has been interesting and harmless.

cheers


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 15, 2010)

Jessica_lee said:


> waruikazi, the thread was about having an estimate. I find these really helpful for getting an objective id.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with having a guess in a thread like this.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, if they wanted to make a point of the dangers of misidentifying then this thread was a pointless way of doing it 
Next time if the "experts" that never get an id wrong don't people guessing at an identification they shouldn't ask the people veiwing to have a guess.

Thanks Gex


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2010)

Aussie pythons is all about having fun, people should not take these threads to seriously. This was just a fun guessing game


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Aussie pythons is all about having fun, people should not take these threads to seriously. This was just a fun guessing game


But your missing the point, we could have killed sturdy


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## JasonL (Mar 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Aussie pythons is all about having fun, people should not take these threads to seriously. This was just a fun guessing game



I agree, this thread wasn't a wild situation where the person caught it and didn't know what it was....all in good fun.


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## DanTheMan (Mar 15, 2010)

steve1 said:


> Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.



I have never seen a thread saying "look at this picture of a brown looking snake, take a random guess so I can tell what would happen if my 5 year old picked it up!"
This thread was posted for a guess, that's cool, I never said it wasn't. I see where you're coming from, and it's great you go through your field guide (as most do) to make sure you can try and give the most accurate ID for the person. My comment wasn't aimed at anyone on this thread, simply backing Scott up, saying that in some cases it isn't best to reply unless you know for a fact which snake it is.



Geckoman said:


> I totally agree, if they wanted to make a point of the dangers of misidentifying then this thread was a pointless way of doing it
> Next time if the "experts" that never get an id wrong don't people guessing at an identification they shouldn't ask the people veiwing to have a guess.
> 
> Thanks Gex



As said, this thread isn't an example of what we're talking about, this one was for guessing, others are people that don't know the 1st thing about snakes that are wanting an ID of some snake they saw around their house, and are wanting to know if it poses a threat to their family and whether or not it's worth getting a snake catcher in.


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## Sturdy (Mar 15, 2010)

Here is a question....

NOW BE HONEST...

For those of you who gave a correct ID tell me how you figured it out" ( in case someone got a lucky guess) 

For those of you who gave a incorrect ID please state which aspect of the red belly made you think it was something else and how you came about that ID

This thread was posted to show off IMO one stunner of a red belly and of course to throw off some people... 
But now since its become more of a "get more education before making a ID" 

you can all learn from each others mistakes and correct IDs.

So please share you methods you how you came about your ID.

Sturdy.


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## DanTheMan (Mar 15, 2010)

Brilliant idea Sturdy!


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## eipper (Mar 15, 2010)

considering this snake was in my "hand" so to speak it was a fair bit easier...however if you look carefully at the first pic you can see the red/black marking on the lower midbody and edges of the ventral scales.

That being said, I realise it was a guess....I said (offline) that it would not surprise me if a number of people got it wrong...due to the different markings on the head to the norm. I used it to illustrate how so many can muck up an id on even a common species.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 16, 2010)

I steered away from the RBB as it appeared to me that in the 2 pic it was cream or white just up around the sides of the neck . Is this the case ? I thought the red sides usually were full the length of the snake. I then attempted to try and distinguish something in the head scale pattern between Notechis, Oxyuranus, Pseudechis and psuedonaja ,even had I possessed a more thorough guide I,m not sure this would have bought me to a conclusion. Upon further reading the width of the head may have ruled out pseudonaja, except the side on view just seemed to me to look closest to Pseudonaja textilis because of the size of the eye and distance between the eye and rostral. this is what lead me to my first guess even though I could not find an example of any brown snakes with such a dark back.Are the parietals more elongated in pseudonaja than in pseudechis? 2nd guess of the tiger snake was because I have seen plenty of black ones but the head looks different to me.

Are all brown snakes egg bearers


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## $NaKe PiMp (Mar 16, 2010)

I found an adult blacksnake in the northwest of Sydney basin 
which had an entirely brown head,I have some pictures here 
somewhere I will post he was a beautiful snake who I saw one day
then went back to same spot the next day and found him again!


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## waruikazi (Mar 16, 2010)

Yeah you're right it is a form of learning. But keep your _guess_ to yourself. You might not get bitten but some kid might because he/she was 100% sure that what they found was a keelback because they read someone's ilinformed guess on the internet. A she'll be right and not my responsibility attitude just doesn't cut it in my eyes.



steve1 said:


> Guessing at pictures is a form of learning, chances are I am not going to get bitten by a picture on my computer screen. If i come across any snake in the wild and am not 110% sure then I will keep my distance, anyone that's unsure and still decides to handle in my opinion is a fool. IF IN DOUBT TREAT ALL SNAKES AS POTENTIALLY DEADLY. If people like you are so worried that others could put themselves at risk by these guessing games then the responsible approach would be to not post them.





Jessica_lee said:


> waruikazi, the thread was about having an estimate. I find these really helpful for getting an objective id.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with having a guess in a thread like this.
> 
> ...



In a thread like this i think it is _ less_ harmful to take a guess but i don't agree that it is harmless. My response that you quoted was inresponse to the rubbish below. Although i agree that threads like these are interesting i do not agree that guessing is harmless and i still think it is potentailly harmful. I counted 6 different genus guesses in the first two pages, that is just ridiculous.



steve1 said:


> Don't look at ID threads then, obviously people post them for others to take a guess, whether there guess is better informed than others doesn't matter, if they thought everyone was going to get it right they wouldn't bother posting. Seems that you are a member of the elite few with such considerable knowledge your post could give an example of why people have guessed wrong so it would give people something to start with. Before I posted my wrong guess I made an attempt to identify it through my books, had I just posted- Brown snake you would then have assumed I was just throwing it out there.



Put this on for size. While i was typing this thread i got a call to a house to catch a whip snake. It was 100% a whip snake because the kid who found it, like us, is an enthusiast just like us and reads all about snakes and gets on the internet blah blah blah. The only reason he didn't catch it himself was because it escaped him and got up a pipe.

I got there and caught a gwardar. Do you see the problem now? This is a scenario that plays out all the time. People don't think they know, they know that they know what snake they are looking at when they are flat out wrong which puts them in a potentially lethal situation. I get on my high horse about this all the time and i will continue to. If you are going to ID a snake you make dam sure that you know what you are doing, otherwise button it and let someone else do it.


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## JasonL (Mar 16, 2010)

eipper said:


> considering this snake was in my "hand" so to speak it was a fair bit easier...however if you look carefully at the first pic you can see the red/black marking on the lower midbody and edges of the ventral scales.
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott



haha, not if your colourblind you can't ... I need a large amount of bright red to see red!


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 16, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Yeah you're right it is a form of learning. But keep your _guess_ to yourself. You might not get bitten but some kid might because he/she was 100% sure that what they found was a keelback because they read someone's ilinformed guess on the internet. A she'll be right and not my responsibility attitude just doesn't cut it in my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 16, 2010)

steve1 said:


> Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses



Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?

Thanks Gex


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## waruikazi (Mar 16, 2010)

steve1 said:


> Maybe you should get on your high horse at the people posting the threads. If people are going to accept an answer of an internet forum as 100% correct more fool them they need to take responsibility for themselves. As long as these threads are posted people are going to take a guess. Every time you post in this thread you are guilty of keeping this irresponsible post in the recent herp discussion column, so by your way of thinking this will make you responsible if someone uses it for identification purposes, are the authors of snake guides responsible if they do not include a picture of every possible colour morph of a Gwardar and the novice picks it up because he thought the hooded form actually resembled a black headed python, or hey its only a Goulds hooded snake- worst that can happen is a bit of pain and swelling, No it's the responsibility of the person who picked up the snake and nobody elses



What a load of bollocks that is. Read your post, no wait i'll summarize it for you 'I'll give out rubbish information and then wash my hands of all responsibility.'

I think this particular thread is very irresponsible for encouraging a guessing game at elapids. 

But that is this thread, ID threads in general i think are a good idea and i really enjoy them. As they say there is no such thing as a stupid question. However there is a such thing as a stupid answer and do you really think people post ID threads (apart from this one) for people to 'guess' what a snake is they have seen? 

Wether you believe it or not and like it or not people do accept the answers they get from forums as fact. What i am promoting is cutting out the potentially deadly misinformation that gets thrown about. I don't understand what your problem is with that. I don't know what your experience with reptiles and the general public is. I have reasonable experience and you would not believe how many times a lethal snake is mistook for a harmless one, it would happen on a fornightly basis. I am committed to do whatever i can to reduce the risk of anyone being bitten by a dangerous snake and cutting out the guessing games is part of that.

Spin it what ever way you want, whatever helps you sleep at night. I know i'm doing what is best to keep people safe, can you say that?


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## -Matt- (Mar 16, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?
> 
> Thanks Gex



Yet they still do pick up that snake because just maybe they have taken the word of some self-proclaimed expert on an internet forum that has thrown up a random I.D.

I understand where everybody is coming from on here, but people are still going to go out and pick up snakes based purely on what somebody has 'told' them it is.


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## waruikazi (Mar 16, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Exactly, if a person isn't 100% in their identification skills of venomous snakes then what are they doing picking up snakes in the first place without treating it as a potential killer?
> 
> Thanks Gex



If someone isn't 100% on there identification skills WHAT ARE THEY DOING TRYING TO IDENTIFYING THEM FOR OTHER PEOPLE? Jeezuz Christ, like talking to a brick wall.


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## WombleHerp (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't say what I think it is written on its own unless I am damn sure of what it is. If in the chance I do guess, I say "I THINK it may be a ...." or "It COULD be a ...." simple. Then they know that it isn't 100% unless I say it is 100%. Agreed, vens are not to be messed around with! And in the chance of someone being misinformed off a forum, about the identification of a snake, and getting bitten by something dangerous, then it is on them AND the people who gave the wrong ID. So if you want that on your hands then go ahead, make foolish posts saying you know what it could be when you arent 100% sure. And if you are IDing a snake, sure, be foolish and take everything said off a varied experienced forum to heart like gold. Everyone just needs to come to senses and think things through a little better IMO


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## GeckoJosh (Mar 16, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> If someone isn't 100% on there identification skills WHAT ARE THEY DOING TRYING TO IDENTIFYING THEM FOR OTHER PEOPLE? Jeezuz Christ, like talking to a brick wall.


No need to be rude .

My point is if someone cant id a snake by them selves in the field then what are they doing picking it up?
For the record i agree that people shouldn't id snakes unless they are 100%, no harm in making an educated guess if they state that it is a guess


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## hoppyone (Mar 16, 2010)

tiabrowntiger????? no idea!!!! love it tho!!!!


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## waruikazi (Mar 16, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> No need to be rude .
> If the thread op didn't say to have a guess i wouldn't have bothered posting, i most certainly would never try and id a snake that wasn't sure about, sure i have speculated in what i thought it may be, but that is all.
> My point is if someone cant id a snake by them selves in the field then what are they doing picking it up?



I wasn't being rude i was venting my utter frustration in the hope of driving home a point. Like i said i think this thread is irresponsible and i'm glad you are starting to see my point of view.

Your point is valid, what are they doing messing with a snake that they don't know? But do you really think it doesn't happen? 

And before anyone says it i do practice what i preach, unless i can atleast be 100% on genus i wont say a thing.


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## eipper (Mar 16, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> I wasn't being rude i was venting my utter frustration in the hope of driving home a point. Like i said i think this thread is irresponsible and i'm glad you are starting to see my point of view.
> 
> Your point is valid, what are they doing messing with a snake that they don't know? But do you really think it doesn't happen?
> 
> And before anyone says it i do practice what i preach, unless i can atleast be 100% on genus i wont say a thing.



Gordo,

The thread is irresponsible??? why because highlights just how easy it is for people to muck up an id...

Cheers,
Scott


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## Dragontamer (Mar 16, 2010)

correct me if im wrong but every guess posted (bar GTP ) was a potentially deadly snake...


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## waruikazi (Mar 16, 2010)

eipper said:


> Gordo,
> 
> The thread is irresponsible??? why because highlights just how easy it is for people to muck up an id...
> 
> ...



I think encouraging people to guess at the ID of an elapid is irresponsible. I doubt there were any bad intentions but just look at what it has done. I'm having to argue until i'm blue in the face with members about why it's not OK to guess an elapid ID. 

I would love it if you could drive it home about how easy it is to mess up an ID.


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## redbellybite (Mar 16, 2010)

Gordo ,understand where ya getting at ..but really I think this one was simply a guessing one for its unusual colouration of its head ..cause if it was a WHAT IS THIS ID ...everyone that saw the whole pic would have got it right first time...and even if the only pic was a head shot ..explaining that it has a red belly and sides would have been easy to guess too ...

ALL SNAKES SHOULD BE RESPECTED REGARDLESS OF IT BEING VENOMOUS, MILD VENOMOUS OR SIMPLY BIG BLOODY TEETH ....
and giving the snakes a wide berth in the wild is whats best for both you and the snake ..take as many pics as you want ..enjoy them for their unique beauty and if you are in a situation that you have one in your safety zone ...remain calm and get a catcher if you can or stay put till it moves on ..dont take unnecessary risks ever ..even if you own a few at home .....


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## Slats (Mar 16, 2010)

lol got to love politics these days
@redbellybite - nicely said


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 17, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> What a load of bollocks that is. Read your post, no wait i'll summarize it for you 'I'll give out rubbish information and then wash my hands of all responsibility.'
> 
> I think this particular thread is very irresponsible for encouraging a guessing game at elapids.
> 
> ...



First you say my opinion is rubbish then it's bollocks then talking to other members is like talking to a brick wall. will it be my fault if you destroy your computer in frustration. I don't believe I've posted an ID as if it were fact and therefore don't need to wash my hands of responsibility but while your handing out the soap so others can wash their hands I'll use it just in case.


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## Hemiaspis (Mar 17, 2010)

Sturdy,
This is how I picked it as P. porphyriacus;
The dark pupil eliminates Oxyuranus and Pseudonaja (except ingrami)
Scalation (frontal scale) eliminates Notechis.
Head shape and scalation suggests Pseudechis.
Eye size and pupil colour consistant with P. porphyriacus.


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## redbellybite (Mar 17, 2010)

Sturdy and Eipper, I stuffed up because I thought it was something more unusual,even though this is ,but was thinking knowing these two guys ,think outside the square a bit , and actually' ingrami" was the closest in Pseudonaja...but I also found a juvie pic of the greater whip and thought mmm maybe .....

but ya buggers if ya had given me that hint I asked for ,I would have had it


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## waruikazi (Mar 17, 2010)

steve1 said:


> First you say my opinion is rubbish then it's bollocks then talking to other members is like talking to a brick wall. will it be my fault if you destroy your computer in frustration. I don't believe I've posted an ID as if it were fact and therefore don't need to wash my hands of responsibility but while your handing out the soap so others can wash their hands I'll use it just in case.



No I say your opinion is dangerous.

When it comes to outcomes intentions don't always make a difference. Just because you never meant your _guess_ to be taken as fact doesn't mean it wont be. I seem to be repeating myself... If you don't know what a snake is then don't say anything. Will we make mistakes every now and then? Of course we are, we're only human but we need to do our best to reduce that risks. A 'not my problem' attitude is not good enough when it comes to something as dangerous as Aussie elapids.

Will it be my fault when some kid gets bitten because you bollocked up an ID? 

RBB as long as you can see what i'm saying and why i'm saying it then we're cool.


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 17, 2010)

G'day guys,

I'm not going to be as fanatical as Gordo, but he is right about incorrect ID's. Quite often, a member of the public will find this forum and post a photo of an unknown snake assuming that the people on a website dedicated to snakes will know what it is. All it takes is for someone to identify an Eastern Brown Snake as a harmless Green Tree Snake and all of a sudden you may have somebody on life support. It's really quite simple - if you don't 100% know what it is, don't identify it. Sit back and watch the thread and learn from those who have the experience...by all means, ask questions, but don't state something that may be interpreted as fact as it could be dangerous.


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## waruikazi (Mar 17, 2010)

Cheers bro


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## JasonL (Mar 17, 2010)

Well we have to weed out the stupid people from society in some way, if someones going to pick up a unknown snake because three unknown (to them) people from an also unknown website (if they where active members for longer than 3 months they would kow about ID threads) say it's a harmless keelback good luck to them....


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## Wild_Storm (Mar 17, 2010)

Jessica_lee said:


> i think the clue was "coming out of a female snake"


 
So true Jessica, I think that was a clue... A first I was leaning towards Eastern Brown (out here their head is that colour) but the 'coming out of a female snake' had me thinking live-born... It was a great lesson thanks to Sturdy & Eipper.


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## moosenoose (Mar 17, 2010)

I couldn't care less IF I got it wrong! :lol:


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 17, 2010)

JasonL said:


> Well we have to weed out the stupid people from society in some way, if someones going to pick up a unknown snake because three unknown (to them) people from an also unknown website (if they where active members for longer than 3 months they would kow about ID threads) say it's a harmless keelback good luck to them....



Exactly. As I said before, the publishing of an Australian snake guide could lead to the mis identification of a snake do we then hold the author responsible NO. Don't make the users of this forum scapegoats for other peoples stupidity Waruikazi, I don't think I once said that it was unlikely a person would ever use the wrong ID's posted on these threads and I agree that people should either not respond or make it clear that their answer is a guess, what I am saying is the responsibility ultimately falls with the person who used the false information. If a backpacker is unfamiliar with our drink driving laws and asks three seperate strangers at the bar if after her 5th drink she would be fine to drive then proceeds to kill someone in an accident does she then share the responsibility with the 3 strangers? And by the way at around post 87 I think Waruikazi you referred to my post as the rubbish below and then later as bollocks not that it really bothers me, I just think that if your so passionate about your argument you should still respect other peoples opinions and perhaps a more mature approach to what others have to say might actually give your own opinions more merrit.
Anyway I have rather enjoyed our dialogue and guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some points, though I will ensure I always make it clear that my response is an uneducated guess, just to be on the safe side. If you still have concerns for other peoples safety maybe you should petition to ban ID threads, as this I believe is the only way you will eliminate wrong ID's though personally i feel that would be detrimental to mine and others enjoyment of this great forum.

cheers 
Steve


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## waruikazi (Mar 17, 2010)

steve1 said:


> Exactly. As I said before, the publishing of an Australian snake guide could lead to the mis identification of a snake do we then hold the author responsible NO. Don't make the users of this forum scapegoats for other peoples stupidity Waruikazi, I don't think I once said that it was unlikely a person would ever use the wrong ID's posted on these threads and I agree that people should either not respond or make it clear that their answer is a guess, what I am saying is the responsibility ultimately falls with the person who used the false information. If a backpacker is unfamiliar with our drink driving laws and asks three seperate strangers at the bar if after her 5th drink she would be fine to drive then proceeds to kill someone in an accident does she then share the responsibility with the 3 strangers? And by the way at around post 87 I think Waruikazi you referred to my post as the rubbish below and then later as bollocks not that it really bothers me, I just think that if your so passionate about your argument you should still respect other peoples opinions and perhaps a more mature approach to what others have to say might actually give your own opinions more merrit.
> Anyway I have rather enjoyed our dialogue and guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some points, though I will ensure I always make it clear that my response is an uneducated guess, just to be on the safe side. *If you still have concerns for other peoples safety maybe you should petition to ban ID threads, as this I believe is the only way you will eliminate wrong ID's though personally i feel that would be detrimental to mine and others enjoyment of this great forum.*
> 
> cheers
> Steve



All field guides have legal disclaimers that state how they should and shouldn't be used. But yes if a field guide gave out negligent, misleading or flat out wrong information and someone was injured with that information as an influencing factor, if it happened to me i would be looking at suing the authors.

OK fine i think your opinion is dangerous bollocks rubbish. I respect your right to have an opinion but i do not respect your opinion on this matter. And don't pull the maturity argument, how mature is it to have a 'Not my problem lalalalala' attitude.

Don't bring up analogies because there is an analogy to suit any argument and i don't think they add to this argument.

Believe it or not champ i was considering bringing this up with the mods to see if we could do something about the guessing game we get in ID threads. I straight up believe it is that big of a deal. If you cannot state with absolute confidence at minimum the genus then you should not be posting identifications.

Mate while we have been bantering in this thread i caught a brown that was meant to be a whip, i have caught other browns that were meant to be tree snakes, olives and keelbacks. I have even caught a death adder that was meant to be a file snake! As harmless as misidentifying a snake on a forum seems it can be potentially dangerous. 

I agree with you that i think the buck stops with the individual invloved but that does not mean that the things you say will not have an influence on the outcome of a particular situation. I'm not a lawyer but i think that if you gave out information that led to someone being injured, you could find yourself in legal hot water. If you feel so strongly that you need to take a guess then guess to yourself, write it down so you can prove to yourself you were right but don't go posting on public forums or saying things to people if you are not 100% on an ID.


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## da_donkey (Mar 17, 2010)

pls lock this thread, what a load of BS


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## Origamislice (Mar 17, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> pls lock this thread, what a load of BS


 i vote yes for what da_donkey said


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## [email protected] (Mar 17, 2010)

who gives a crap if some one made an id wrong......tell some one who cares....know it alls


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## varanid_mike (Mar 18, 2010)

I do think it’s *very* important to ID venomous snakes correctly, but there is 2-3 people on this forum that think they are gods (a large mythical man in the sky) gift to us and we should all bow down to them. Pull your heads in..... you know who you are.
A lot of people on this forum are fairly new to reptiles and don't need arrogant snobs making snide little comments.


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## varanid_mike (Mar 18, 2010)

p.s. That's in agreement with you elapid, not directed to you.
Mike


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## moosenoose (Mar 18, 2010)

varanid_mike said:


> I do think it’s *very* important to ID venomous snakes correctly, but there is 2-3 people on this forum that think they are gods (a large mythical man in the sky) gift to us and we should all bow down to them. Pull your heads in..... you know who you are.
> A lot of people on this forum are fairly new to reptiles and don't need arrogant snobs making snide little comments.




Hear hear!


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## TigerCoastal (Mar 18, 2010)

Sorry but i like my way to ID if it's in the wild.... Its a SNAKE look, take pics, dont touch....simple, then take the pics to an experienced keeper in the area and ask their opinion, wouldnt trust an ID off a thread due to how many wrong answers are given, but these threads are a good way for people to have a go at ID'ing a snake in 100% safe environment and if wrong ask questions to learn instead of getting burned for having a go, as i am relatively new to snakes i have alot of questions bout scale counts and stuff like that for id purposes but the way that some people react i'm going to find out myself, I'll admit i got it wrong and i only had pics to look at and they weren't the best pics (other sites not yours).... as for the toss who knows nothing but still wants to go out and handle a snake with an id of a thread....good luck to you


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