# Pet Store on SPRINGVALE RD, VICTORIA! Urgent! Need your help!



## curtis (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey guys...

I'm sure when some people read the topic they will get shivers down their spine... :?

As posted before, my friend and I wanted to get another dragon, a baby, so we got
the address of a place in Springvale. Our excitement was soon turned in to utter
dismay at the state of this place... I have searched on this forum and it IS a damn
animal graveyard! That place is so overstocked -- they had way too little staff, in fact
they were just kids, and that's not even the half of it!

We went straight to the reptile section and things looked absolutely horrible. I couldn't
take it, I wanted to get the hell out of Springvale as quickly as possible it was so bad -
there were very sick looking lizards. In fact, I counted at least 3 dead. There was a
blue tongue, lying dead all swollen, looking terrible, as was a adult water dragon. The
poor thing looked like its health had slowly deteriorated to a point where it could no
longer survive. The little scorpions were sitting in piles of dead insects, when I say
piles, I mean piles bigger than the scorpions, I don't know much about them, but I
really don't think that is right at all... this whole place had a smell of death about it,
it was absolutely morbid.

The poor puppies are also stuffed into these small cubicles which they can hardly freely
move in, not to mention the stench of uncleaned animals. There was another section where
there were mostly big bird aviaries, but there were these two tiny little puppies huddled
together in this big, cold aviary, scared to death by the shrieking of what sounded to be a
bird in great distress...

Needless to say, we reported this to the RSPCA as soon as we got home. They sort of
sighed as they have had reports against this place already. I'm not quite sure what to do,
but such a place can't be allowed to continue with this. I drove past there last Sunday on
the way to Amazing Amazon, and my heart sunk as it was still very much open for business.

What can we do? The people who have seen this horror of a place must know what it felt like
there, we have to do something!


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 10, 2007)

Im in Brisbane but ive heard of this place before. Honestly i would take some pictures if you can and show them to the Rspca. I would be telling them that there are dead animals in their shop that they have left for the public to see, and they looked to suffer a slow painful death. Id also mention the fear of the puppies, and that you could smell feces etc. 

Tell them exactly what you felt that you were mortified. Photos will help your case and honestly go to the RSPCA in person, (i dont know if your an adult), but if you arent take one with you as they tend to take adults more seriously. If it doesnt work get some photos of the insect piles, dead animals, scared puppies and send them to me. I will report them to the VIC RSPCA myself - people tend to listen to what i have to say, ive done this a few times before lol - with great success. 

Anyway i hope this helps, but evidence is probably needed. Maybe even go in there and (i know this sounds aweful) but make sure the place is looking shocking and tell the RSPCA to go down there quick smart to check the place out for themselves. I just rescued 3 baby beardeds last night (they are all missing the ends of their tails, one looks like it will lose a rear foot. The fellow didnt know what to do with them, and i heard contemplated letting them go in th wild. Let me know how it goes.


----------



## coxy (Sep 10, 2007)

Try ringing ACA , Today Tonight, or some animal rescue program, if they don't listen go in with a hidden camera and film stuff and put it on youtube . It's quite sad about the RSPCA's response, maybe they have budget cuts and want to help but the bosses are telling them to cut back . 
If there is a large public outcry i think something will be done alot quicker.


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 10, 2007)

I agree. You need some video or photographic evidence by the sounds of it but try contacting anyone you can, today tonight, extra, chanel 9 news, ACA, try the RSPCA again and really plead with them that its their job and these animals are suffering and its not just yourself thats disgusted in the store. Keep us updated !


----------



## noidea (Sep 10, 2007)

i agree with what everyone is saying get a reporter of some sort to name and shame them on national tv. perhaps then something serious will be done.good luck and hopefully the animals that aren' beyond saving are rescued to enjoy the life they deserve.


----------



## Bung-Eye (Sep 10, 2007)

i too have heard about this place from up here in Brisbane. The advice given so far is sound, video or photo's would be a huge booster for your case.


----------



## mertle (Sep 10, 2007)

Yep get em shamed on tv and the animals rescued, RSPCA have been told, did nothing or very little, ring today tonight, get them on tv, they love these kinds of stories!!!

It's disgusting to see this happen to animals, any animals, reptiles, or insects, I wish I was there, I would have told them what for and said I was getting the television station involved!


----------



## herptrader (Sep 10, 2007)

There are actually two pet stores selling reptiles on Springvale Road. I believe the one you are referring to is in Keysbourough. (sp??) .

The other in Glen Waverley was in the news recently for other reasons.

Bottom line is that you will do better sourcing your animals directly from breeders. (...and a good way to do this is to keep an eye on the Herp Trader http://herptrader.com.au )


----------



## FAY (Sep 10, 2007)

These places are open for everyone to see.......how do they continue trading, why are they NOT prosecuted????
Where are the RSPCA...it is their responsibility to remove animals in danger!!!!!
I don't know how they sleep at night.....


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 10, 2007)

Another thing you can do is encourage as many people as possible to report it to the RSPCA.. There are a few ways you can go about doing this.. The number one way I can think of is flyers. Print out a few small posters (A4 size will do), when you go into the shop next time take a picture of the puppies (try to get an image as sad/shocking/heart renching as you can) and then print up the poster to look similar to a "missing puppy" poster as people can't resist looking at them. And then write something along the lines of "This puppy isn't missing, but he may wish he was. At the moment he is living in fear in the pet store on Springvale rd, with countless other baby animals, in absolute squalor. In this store I have seen animals living in their own filth, or left sick and dying in their pens, and even living amongst animals who have already given up their fight. Unfortunately it seems that nothing can be done to help these animals unless there are more complaints. If you have a spare few minutes today, please find it in your heart to visit the animals at this store and if you agree that it simply isn't right, please report it to the RSPCA. If the RSPCA receive enough complaints perhaps something can be done to help. Let's work together to stop this cruel and unfair treatment of defenseless animals."

Obviously don't sign it or leave any contact details on it, and put the posters up at main intersections within a few blocks of the shop. Doing it this way allows people to be aware of the problem, and go in and see it for themselves, and more importantly make their own decision about it. Also using a picture of a puppy guarantees that animal lovers will look at it and read it, and hopefully feel compelled to take action. Just make sure that you don't mention the name of the store, or make it too defamatory as although you are trying to help, a smear campaign can and will work against you in the long run.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Why not report it to DSE! Keep making reports....lots of them, they get sick of you and will do something about it! RSPCA is only worried about cute furry stuff...take photos of the dogs and they might act....only if it is good for publicity though.....


----------



## moosenoose (Sep 10, 2007)

If it's the place I'm thinking about (which I'm 99% sure it is) they've been investigated and investigated and NOTHING ever seems to change! I agree with you when you say it's disgraceful - actually, it's worse than that. Someone has mentioned to me that they are in cahoots with someone in a high place, and that's why they keep walking away Scott-free time and time again. About time they either cleaned up their act, or closed! Appalling!


----------



## nuthn2do (Sep 10, 2007)

Youtube 'em and then send a link to the the tv networks.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Something else to think about...where do these places get their animals from....private breeders most of the time...if you dont like them, dont sell to them, dont buy from them, dont visit them...the more people that go throught the door means that they look busy...people are not stupid...if the animals are sick, dead etc they will not buy them...but if people keep on going back..."rescuing" the sick animals...paying for them...then they are allowing it to continue. If you dont like DSE response, dall the Department of Primary Industries Animal Welfare....see if they can help. Just remember....there are a lot of animals, some will die, some will die during the day and not be noticed until later.....there are minimum standards that must be met, make sure you know these before you try to video and post on the net....the companies have more money than you!


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 10, 2007)

I have a very close friend that is a councilor at the Springvale Shire I am in the process of phoning her but I need to know the exact name I think I know it but if someone could pm for confirmation Im sure my friend will be able to help.With permission from the writers above i would like to send her these comments.
Odie


----------



## cris (Sep 10, 2007)

Have ppl confronted the owners and staff about these problems? if so what do they say?


----------



## crush the turtle (Sep 10, 2007)

is it close to amazing amazon?? do u just kepp going down springvale rd, i wanna go an have a look myself, whats the name of this store?


----------



## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

As mentioned previously, I reckon someone ought to get some photos of the animals in this store and then send them to A Current Affair and Today Tonight - they love that sort of stuff. It's disgusting that places like this can still trade when the neglect is so obvious. How can the RSPCA not do anything?

Anyone know the name/address of this store?


----------



## GravelRash (Sep 10, 2007)

*Defo do the vid or pix n upload 2 you tube and whatever other media u feel necessary. Something 2 make the community sit up n go ....huh??? 

I'm in Brissy but this type of torture HAS to stop... 
The black cloud that hangs above these ppl n COMPANIES who just "dont care" is very disturbing... I'm also bummd at all the Blackmarket n Underground goings on, including thefts of good petstores breeders and collectors animals locally and nationally.... 
Time 4 it to STOP!!
*


----------



## mertle (Sep 10, 2007)

Good on you Odie,keep us informed on what happens?


----------



## crush the turtle (Sep 10, 2007)

is thier a website?


----------



## herptrader (Sep 10, 2007)

Personally I would not go near the RSPCA but approach the department directly. (In Victoria it is called the DSE this week.) 

The RSPCA seem to have a view that herps should not be kept as pets and are just as likely to use the issue to grandstand and point out the evils of people being able to keep anything other than feathered and 4 legged furry things. (If you doubt what I am saying here have a look at the RSPCA's charter on their web site.)




> These places are open for everyone to see.......how do they continue trading, why are they NOT prosecuted????
> Where are the RSPCA...it is their responsibility to remove animals in danger!!!!!
> I don't know how they sleep at night.....


----------



## koubee (Sep 10, 2007)

Australian Pet superstore

578 Springvale Rd, Springvale South

www.australianpetsuperstore.com.au


also known as Australian Bird Co. & Breeding Farm.


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 10, 2007)

I remember reading that the owner is a member of the DSE or something like that? Might be something you want to confirm before going to them for help. It would partly explain why they have been getting away with this for so long. There have been plenty of threads about this already and a number of people trying to do something without any luck. :?


----------



## GravelRash (Sep 10, 2007)

*I'd love to find out how the animals that customers DID buy off this revolting place are faring... Vet vhecks and such I would think would HAVE to happen.... Y havent THEY said something and shut them money grubbing a**holes down??? Comes down to really NOONE wanting the responsibility..... AGAIN.....*


----------



## Viridae (Sep 10, 2007)

Yeah go to the media - today tonight and aca are trash but they get this sort of thing rolling.


----------



## GravelRash (Sep 10, 2007)

I remember reading that the owner is a member of the DSE or something like that



*CORRUPTION CORRUPTION CORRUPTION !!!*


----------



## moosenoose (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that's the place Koubee. I didn't want to name the place as I can't remember what they are called. But I know the exact location of the place that is being referred to.


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 10, 2007)

Yes, it's also called the Australian Reptile Co.


----------



## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

koubee said:


> www.australianpetsuperstore.com.au


 
I tried the link, all I got was:



> An error occured retreiving bizcard information: Could not find domain australianpetsuperstore.com.au


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 10, 2007)

Got permission from me.. But I am on the west coast so I'm not sure how much help my comment will be as it's more of a general opinion


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 10, 2007)

My last post was in response to OdessaStud by the way


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 10, 2007)

I don't think they can make up their minds!

Names:
Australian Pet Superstore
Australian Reptile Co
Australian Bird Company
Australian Bird, Reptile and Exotic Pet Centre

Websites:
http://austbird.citysearch.com.au
www.austbirdco.com
_www.australianpetsuperstore.com.au_

None of those work. I can't find one that does.


----------



## noidea (Sep 10, 2007)

count me in odessa if our comments can help in getting this store investigated and saving those poor animals.


----------



## Sdaji (Sep 10, 2007)

Almost all of the pet shops in Melbourne are extremely bad, and some of the worst ones are often praised on the forums (including this one) as being absolutely wonderful. The shop people are talking about in this thread is one of, if not the worst in Victoria, I've been visiting it for years and it has been just as bad the entire time. If animals are allowed to be treated as merchandise on the shelves, this is what you're going to see. I've seen dead animals in various stages of decay in at least half a dozen pet shops in Melbourne, and in total I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of individual dead reptiles. Of course, for every reptile which is dead you see many more which are on their way to being dead, often beyond the point where they could be saved even with the best of care. Very few shops in Melbourne are free of wild-caught animals, some of them taken legally from NT, most taken illegally from around the country.

By all means report this shop, but don't get your hopes up about seeing quick results. Some of the shops in Melbourne have been prosecuted many times, usually for selling exotics or poaching, rarely for animal abuse (exotics seem to be a bigger concern to the authorities). They know that they're only going to be prosecuted once in a while even if they're breaking laws left right and center all the time, and when they do they get a little fine and carry on with business as usual. When running a pet shop the motives are almost always almost entirely financial, and this is the result. Some of the worse offenders in terms of poaching and dealing in exotics are very good at keeping anything 'bad' (sick or exotic animals etc) off display, but others like this one don't even go that far.

If enough people kick up a fuss about these places, they'll possibly be closed down, or at the very least put in an effort to keep the dodgy stuff out the back and clean up the dead animals a little more frequently than once a month!

I strongly suggest not getting television programmes such as Today Tonight involved as they have their own bad motives (they'll twist the facts to make whatever story will bring in the best ratings), and you could quite possibly end up with a story along the lines of "All reptile keepers are extremely bad, here is an example, we need to ban people from being able to keep them at all". Organisations such as the RSPCA would love to have reptile keeping by private individuals banned entirely, and such a story would give them a lot of ammunition against us.

Remember never, ever to buy a neglected animal to 'save' it, as you'll be funding these people who will then source more animals and neglect them, so you're just making the problem worse for more animals while making these criminals rich.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

The reports here that the guy has links with DSE is totally false, the only link he has with the DSE is that he is a commercial trader, the person everyone is thinking of is the owner of another pet store in another suburb. According to DSE the store in question is visited regularily by them, every report is followed up on......but b people continuing to sell to pet stores, visit them and buy animals from them the pet stores will continue to trade in animals......

STOP visiting.....STOP supplying.....STOP buying and they will not have a reason to keep these animals!

If you post any pictures or vids about neglect....make sure you know they have broken regs....read them first....I think you will be unpleasantly suprised as they are within the regs!


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Organise a rally....get people out front and make it difficult to get in......picket the place.....it sounds like there is a lot of support...you should have no problem organising a vocal group to protest in front of the place


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks herpheaven, yeah I wasn't sure but I just didn't want someone to go to all the effort to a source that was a dead end. Looks like it may be anyway.


----------



## kimba83 (Sep 10, 2007)

im in melbourne tell me the place and ill go slap the guy who runs it !


----------



## Bigbird (Sep 10, 2007)

I went to this store when I was looking for my beardies and I was totally disgusted by it and myself and my husband walked out straight away. I would be happy to help out to try to get this place closed down.


----------



## kimba83 (Sep 10, 2007)

theres a new reptile shop opend in rosanna called totally reptiles > AWSOME SHOP!


the animals there are healthy and no complaints from me ill be getting my babies from them all the time.


----------



## paleoherp (Sep 10, 2007)

I have just come back to herp after a considerable break, aquiring my first snake back in 1986. I have worked in various fields of Animal Husbandry and Science and even back then you would here bad reports about this place, often coming from bird breeders, I am catching up on a lot of changes but I see that some things are still the same.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

lots of talk about how bad it is....people claim to want to help......what are you going to do?

Get something organised.......get a protest happening.......if the authorities are unwilling to help what will you do about it.

Again I say it is breeders who sell to pet stores that make this abuse possible......if you are willing to sell to a pet store you must accept that you are encouraging companies such as this! Even if you only sell to the "good" ones......pet stores trade between themselves!


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 10, 2007)

Just a quick update I have sent your comments and concerns to the Springvale Shire my girlfriend will get back to me in the next hour or so.These guys have to stop I have refused to sell them rodents and have stopped people I know supplying them with anything that breathes and through the help of the shire hopefully we will be able to close these guys down for good.,from what i can assume from my conversation with her no formal complaints have been made to the shire  about this company they have been around for nearly 30 years in the same place, one has to ask why nothing has ever been done even the RSPCA is only about 10 klms away from them.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

RSPCA moved a wombat and several birds out of the place years ago.....they have been back to check on them....people need to understand the regs....the company is operating within them......if people keep on shopping there then they will continue to have poor conditions.......Sdaji you have ben tehre several times, as have many of you.....what formal complaint did you put in...was it a phone call or did you put pen to paper....if not why not?.....a phone call is not a formal complaint.......Good on you OdessaStud for stopping supply....hopefully others will follow suit....


----------



## kimba83 (Sep 10, 2007)

hey we can protest out the front of it and not let people in the store...

who has a spare week


----------



## Snow1369 (Sep 10, 2007)

I spoke to 7news about this a few months back they were going down to investigate but they siad there was nothing much they could do when they called me back.... They have been investigated a few times i'm quite sure the owner has links with DSE so he just gets afine and nothing else happens.... But it's pretty bad!


----------



## Sdaji (Sep 10, 2007)

I've never made a formal complaint about them. If I made a formal complaint every time I saw animal abuse I'd never have time to do anything else. I spent years expending my efforts influencing the Victorian laws, but after a while I became tired of it, the commercial powers are too strong and it was impossible to fix the situation. Once they get their foot in the door with laws to allow them to sell reptiles in shops it's almost impossible to get a good system in place and in the end I put my time into university studies and other persuits. Many money-hungry people want to legalise shops in NSW, sadly it will probably happen. Nothing seems to be able to stand against the almighty dollar.


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 10, 2007)

I just got off the phone from my girlfriend and she has sent the forums comments and my email to their health department whowm has sent it on to regulatory services aka bylaws.
The replied to her straight away that the store "has quite a history"and they will be going to inspect the property today, I believe they are on their way as we speak.My girlfriend has assured me she will not let this one slip through again and will keep me updated as to the progress that is being made.


----------



## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

Look forward to hearing the outcome.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Kimba83, why a week, why not the busy times....weekends....if people are this upset by it they should do something about it.....otherwise it will continue.......or then again we could just whinge and whine on a forum....and before you ask....yes I have put a written complaint in.....to both DSE and DPI animal welfare.


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 10, 2007)

Good work OdessaStud, Cant wait to hear the outcome! The people operating inside this pet store should have been wiped out by evolution! Good Luck!


----------



## kimba83 (Sep 10, 2007)

herp : im willing to protest.. are u ?

i even said id go in and slap whoevas working.. 

ive put in a complaint to a mate who owns another petstore and she will be ringing the right people and trying to organise a set of inspections with howeva many she can.


----------



## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

If I were local I'd be happy to join in on a protest.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

I have complained to the "right people", I have spoken to the owner, I have been kicked out of the store physically becuase I made a stand for what I felt was right.....HAVE YOU?!?!?! How else do you think I know about the regs for pet stores, the DSE and DPI groups to contact and that RSPCA have visited....I am just sick of hearing complaints on a forum when people are unwilling to back up their words.


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> Almost all of the pet shops in Melbourne are extremely bad, and some of the worst ones are often praised on the forums (including this one) as being absolutely wonderful. The shop people are talking about in this thread is one of, if not the worst in Victoria, I've been visiting it for years and it has been just as bad the entire time. If animals are allowed to be treated as merchandise on the shelves, this is what you're going to see. I've seen dead animals in various stages of decay in at least half a dozen pet shops in Melbourne, and in total I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of individual dead reptiles. Of course, for every reptile which is dead you see many more which are on their way to being dead, often beyond the point where they could be saved even with the best of care. Very few shops in Melbourne are free of wild-caught animals, some of them taken legally from NT, most taken illegally from around the country.
> 
> By all means report this shop, but don't get your hopes up about seeing quick results. Some of the shops in Melbourne have been prosecuted many times, usually for selling exotics or poaching, rarely for animal abuse (exotics seem to be a bigger concern to the authorities). They know that they're only going to be prosecuted once in a while even if they're breaking laws left right and center all the time, and when they do they get a little fine and carry on with business as usual. When running a pet shop the motives are almost always almost entirely financial, and this is the result. Some of the worse offenders in terms of poaching and dealing in exotics are very good at keeping anything 'bad' (sick or exotic animals etc) off display, but others like this one don't even go that far.
> 
> ...


 yeah its always been of a low standard well since ive first went there and that would have to be about 9years ago now. maybe contact some peta looneys about the store and see what happens to their business and reputation


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Isnt this the same type of thread as SAMMCCARTHY had going a few months back....what ever happened there.......what was the result??...does anyone know?.......or did it fade away just like this will in a week or so?


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

herpheaven said:


> Isnt this the same type of thread as SAMMCCARTHY had going a few months back....what ever happened there.......what was the result??...does anyone know?.......or did it fade away just like this will in a week or so?


 yeah i remember that but remember the guy who owns the shop is tied in with dse somehow which would explain the lack of action being taken against him:evil:


----------



## mertle (Sep 10, 2007)

I hope your friend can get something done Odie, thanks for letting her know!

Ohh and I would be in on the protest if I were local too.

It's a shame for the animals to be treated in this manner, it would only take an hour or two out of each day for them to care for the animals properly and they are prob open 7 days a week!


----------



## herptrader (Sep 10, 2007)

mertle said:


> I hope your friend can get something done Odie, thanks for letting her know!
> 
> Ohh and I would be in on the protest if I were local too.
> 
> It's a shame for the animals to be treated in this manner, it would only take an hour or two out of each day for them to care for the animals properly and they are prob open 7 days a week!



Actually the whole place pretty much looks like a cluttered brothel. I doubt an hour or two would be sufficient to get the place in order.


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

alex_c said:


> yeah i remember that but remember the guy who owns the shop is tied in with dse somehow which would explain the lack of action being taken against him:evil:


 

He is not affiliated......he knows the guy who represents pet stores at the WPTAC?? meetings:evil: he just knows how to be a bully.....I know when I stood there arguing with them at least 10 people walked out of the store.....possibly more as I was physically thrown out.....but it was worth it....my voice was heard.....imagine what could happen if there were a few people in the carpark on the weekend....


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

herptrader said:


> Actually the whole place pretty much looks like a cluttered brothel. I doubt an hour or two would be sufficient to get the place in order.


 yeah its disgusting conditions i cant believe they keep those birds of prey in such small aviaries :evil:


----------



## scout (Sep 10, 2007)

its a shame no decent animal owner had the collateral and opened a reputable pet shop close by. If you cant get them to look after their animals, one way to close them down would be competition. Who after all would bye from these shops when there is a better,cleaner option. I know i would personally preferr to buy from a shop with clean healthy looked after animals


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 10, 2007)

I wonder if you could get some advice from Greenpeace.. Sure they mostly deal with offshore issues such as whaling etc, but I'm sure one of their representatives would be able to point you in the right direction as far as what types of avenues to follow, but even if they can't, its worth a try, right? 

I'm actually suprised nobody has just broken into the bloody shop and taken all of the animals - then again, the shop would just get an insurance pay out if that happened.


----------



## Velten (Sep 10, 2007)

so yeah just beeing reading through the thread, and its horrible, im will to basically do whatever it takes to put an end to that store short of burning it down, i'm planning to go there this weekend if i get a chance and will be videoing on my phone and taking a few snap shots about the place, and if any body else is willing let me know and we can either meet down there, and take this a little further


----------



## twodogs (Sep 10, 2007)

Maybe you could name the pet shop here, and post a warning on the home page of this site so many other people can see it. The more people who read about this will tell others. BAD NEWS TRAVELLS FASTER AND FURTHER THAN GOOD NEWS.


----------



## kimba83 (Sep 10, 2007)

herp : name a time and if i aint working ill go with u!


----------



## Velten (Sep 10, 2007)

sweet well i'll be driving from hoppers crossing so prolly sometime round 11 once i pry myself from the warmth... and i dont know the specific address but i think i found the basic area, thank god for GPS


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

Bourbs said:


> I wonder if you could get some advice from Greenpeace.. Sure they mostly deal with offshore issues such as whaling etc, but I'm sure one of their representatives would be able to point you in the right direction as far as what types of avenues to follow, but even if they can't, its worth a try, right?
> 
> I'm actually suprised nobody has just broken into the bloody shop and taken all of the animals - then again, the shop would just get an insurance pay out if that happened.


 yes good idea but that could come back to bite us we dont need morons bitching about us keeping native animals as pets lol its the same with petards lol:lol:


----------



## angel_saza (Sep 10, 2007)

Another point of contact may be the PIAA (Pet Industry Association of Australia) The store in question is associated with them under the name is the 'Australian Pet Superstore'.


----------



## Radar (Sep 10, 2007)

alex_c said:


> yeah its disgusting conditions i cant believe they keep those birds of prey in such small aviaries :evil:


 
What the hell? Birds of prey? Illegalmuch?:evil::evil:
List:
-Get photos and video
-If you are a local, preferably a big one or a women, go and have words with the owner....video the conversation
-complain to authorities (done, but keep doing it)
-complain to ACA and Today tonite (use the video, and don't make it flattering, make sure its a ****ty video, bad light, etc)
-send petitions to animal breeders clubs, universities, etc, with attached photos of dead animals. Send one up here, I'll post it round JCU a few times.
-If you are in the area.....go in every few days and whinge you're a** off. 
-Don't buy, and advise others not to buy, from them

I know its all been said, but I still had to write that...


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

rednut said:


> What the hell? Birds of prey? Illegalmuch?:evil::evil:
> List:
> -Get photos and video
> -If you are a local, preferably a big one or a women, go and have words with the owner....video the conversation
> ...


 yeah im pretty sure it was an owl and an eagle i think they have a special licence to keep them


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Interesting comment from authorities.....many complaints that are lodged about this company are disgruntled employees.....all I know is that after being physically removed I have not been permitted back in the store....bit too much of a trouble maker......but once again i have to say there is a lot said and nothing done!


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 10, 2007)

Just thought people might be interested in the Code of Practice for Pet stores through DPI Victoria.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreni...56C16002202D54E532A5FF42FDB794A256DEA0027A696


----------



## cracksinthepitch (Sep 10, 2007)

How about a barricade on the door late friday night so the re is no opening on Sat morning. Im sure that people are following official chanells but what about Mayhem.Paper all over the windows saying "closed down due to animal cruelty," Im in for friday night if anyones game.:x


----------



## cracksinthepitch (Sep 10, 2007)

But of course for legal reasons i wouldnt do that type of irresponsible behavior now would i or we.


----------



## Varanus1 (Sep 10, 2007)

alex_c said:


> yeah im pretty sure it was an owl and an eagle i think they have a special licence to keep them



The birds of prey that were held there were a Whistling Kite and a pair of Masked Owls if I'm correct... These birds were taken away recently. they also had several Blue Winged Kookaburras which last time I checked were also illegal in Victoria.

For anyone who knows raptors and who had also seen these birds would agree with me that the conditions they were being kept in were atrocious; for starters they were kept in WIRE aviaries (which in raptors causes severe feather and cere damage amongst other things) that were FAR to small, especially for the whistling kite. There were also poorly sized perches for these birds and to top it all off, the cage floor was covered in faeces.

I personally can't wait to see this place be shut down,

Good luck team,
Trent


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 10, 2007)

What about speaking with the state government about organising a herp society that is similar to the one for general pet shops? Can't remember what it is called, but essentially there could be a "National Reptile Society Member" sticker for pet stores who have passed a standard approval process. Stores who aren't members could still trade, but it could be something to set some sort of standard for acceptable practices, and could be an incentive for pet stores to try harded to be able to get that special tick of approval rather than just doing the bare minimum required to be legally allowed to trade in animals.


----------



## Radar (Sep 10, 2007)

Damn, cracksinthepitch, WISH I was in melbourne right now, that would be my type of night. :twisted:
But I wouldnt do it of course. That would be illegal.


----------



## mysnakesau (Sep 10, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> its a shame no decent animal owner had the collateral and opened a reputable pet shop close by. If you cant get them to look after their animals, one way to close them down would be competition. Who after all would bye from these shops when there is a better,cleaner option. I know i would personally preferr to buy from a shop with clean healthy looked after animals



What a fantastic idea. But if you're anything like me I'd be buying up the sick animals just so I can nurse them back to health. But to have another pet store across the street, next door even, would either clean him up or clean him out.

Have you seen the TV Series Animal Rescue? Perhaps you could visit their website and send them something.


----------



## alex_c (Sep 10, 2007)

cracksinthepitch said:


> How about a barricade on the door late friday night so the re is no opening on Sat morning. Im sure that people are following official chanells but what about Mayhem.Paper all over the windows saying "closed down due to animal cruelty," Im in for friday night if anyones game.:x


 they have security cameras and razor wire fencing im pretty sure but i have heard of something like that being done i think they put concrete formwork around the door and poored in concrete. i wonder if araldite comes in 44gallon drums:lol:


----------



## dazza74 (Sep 11, 2007)

why dont we all go there and protest you might get the cops and news reporters there and video inside that so called shop just my 2 cents worth


----------



## Mystery (Sep 11, 2007)

dazza74 said:


> why dont we all go there and protest you might get the cops and news reporters there and video inside that so called shop just my 2 cents worth



I think protest is a great idea. We did a protest once about a dog - rang the media, they asked how many where going to be in the protest, as soon as we told them they were there. The media love that sort of stuff - their ratings go right up when it is cruelty issues. If I wasn't in Qld - I would definately do the protest. I have involved the media twice with cruelty issues - the other was a horse. It worked wonders.


----------



## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

Perhaps consult some of the friendly ppl at your local motorcycle club, many of those guys like reptiles and stuff....


----------



## cris (Sep 11, 2007)

You could also hang around outside handing out fliers to anyone who goes in there.


----------



## Kyro (Sep 11, 2007)

Why don't a few of you that are close to the shop go there & absolutely blast the owners.I'd be going in there with cameras & friends & tell them straight to there faces that you are taking pics for evidence & they will be seeing them selves on Today Tonight in the near future.If they threaten to call the police then tell them that would be a great start.They might at least do something about the look of the place


----------



## FAY (Sep 11, 2007)

If you are going to protest......do it peacefully.
If you carry on pathetic...no-one could be bothered with what you are on about and you will be looked upon no better than the people who run these places.


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 11, 2007)

I agree with Fay/Garth. I would probably feel uncomfortable voicing my opinions too loudly but I'm more than willing to help out by providing my presence or anything else reasonable that is decided upon.

Also going in there and blasting them may not work too well as when I was there it was very difficult to even find a staff member! You would need to make sure the manager or owner was around, as all I found were two young assistants.


----------



## Kyro (Sep 11, 2007)

Approach the store & demand to speak to the owner & if they are not there then find out when they will be.There is a way to be forceful & demanding without being rude & pathetic


----------



## paleoherp (Sep 11, 2007)

There licence to trade should be revoked, if this was private keeper the animals would be removed.


----------



## theduclos (Sep 11, 2007)

the worst thing is the manager (sarah) is a 19 yr old girl that i dont reckon is up to the job of running the place. she was in the same year of school as me, we went to neighbouring schools but i hang out with people from her school. i only found out she worked/ran the place after visiting when the last thread of this store was up

for all you wondering its the petstore next to the bp service station near the westall rd extension. bloody horrible place. i was there once to buy some crix cos i was in the area, all the packets were dead, and the substrate was mouldy.


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 11, 2007)

Update
My girlfriend sent me an email saying that the department would like to know who can verifiy a date that they were in the store and also how long they spent in there.This is all I was asked for sorry I dont have any more information at this stage but it looks like they are taking this seriously so a few dates and times shouldnt be a problem to help them with thier enquiry.
This is a copy of the exact email i received obviously without the email addy or name attached.
Hi Kazzy,
I am being asked if anyone can supply the date they attended and how
long there were in there for.
Can you help.

Thanks
xxooxx


----------



## paleoherp (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi odessastud, thanks for the update, i may be calling in there tomorow, i will post on what i see


----------



## alex_c (Sep 12, 2007)

theduclos said:


> the worst thing is the manager (sarah) is a 19 yr old girl that i dont reckon is up to the job of running the place. she was in the same year of school as me, we went to neighbouring schools but i hang out with people from her school. i only found out she worked/ran the place after visiting when the last thread of this store was up
> 
> for all you wondering its the petstore next to the bp service station near the westall rd extension. bloody horrible place. i was there once to buy some crix cos i was in the area, all the packets were dead, and the substrate was mouldy.


its always been filthy i remember going there for the first time 8 or 9 years ago and their aviaries were disgusting so not much has changed really


----------



## bouncn (Sep 12, 2007)

today tonight is the most powerful ally you have.

then ACA will run another story with a different spin on it.

I hate both shows but you have to admit, they can move mountains.


----------



## Jozz (Sep 12, 2007)

Here is the link to another thread about this place - with pics.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57267


----------



## mertle (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks for that link Jozz!

This place needs to be shut down asap! 

If some more Melb people can get pics inside even with their camera phone so it's not as obvious then that would help alot!!! I just ish I had the time and money to get there myself and get a load of movie footage and pics!

Those poor animals!!!


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 12, 2007)

OdessaStud said:


> Update
> 
> This is a copy of the exact email i received obviously without the email addy or name attached.
> 
> ...



Please dont make me look stupid  Ive been trying to get something happening with this pet shop but my friend NEEDS some dates as written above. For obvious reasons I cant use her name but she IS fighting this cause with us.


----------



## ytamarin (Sep 12, 2007)

Hi Odessa, here's my post on another thread from 1st August, I was there for about 45 mins:

_



I just visited this petshop for the first time today and left feeling very sad, especially for the dogs. Large dogs in tiny enclosures, one very young puppy looking scared and helpless in an enclosure with a bunch of rowdy older dogs...etc...

Click to expand...

_


> _What happened with that poll? It's not there anymore, I can't remember what it said. Has anything further happened with these guys?_




I wish I had taken my camera, just to let people know if you are thinking about going there, you shouldn't have much trouble taking photos as there probably won't be any staff around to watch you anyway. There were two kelpies in an unlocked enclosure, I opened the door and patted them for a while and nobody even knew (oh how I wanted to grab them and take them home!).

If I get a chance I'll head back there for pics.


----------



## paleoherp (Sep 12, 2007)

I just got back from this shop and as a former animal technician it is my opinion that this is an overall disgrace.
Many of the animals there I would regard as un-sellable, it appears that a lot of the animals have been there for some time, there were many cats and some dogs that were well past the cute and cuddly stage, making them even harder to sell. 

My initial impression was that the herp was possibly too cold, there are many dragons with only half a tail, there was a ridgy which looked blind in one eye, possible as a result of an injury or infection. There is also a gippy Water Dragon which is badly emaciated. There were a couple types of dragons and snakes that looked ok but I would put this down to the fact that they probably haven't been there very long.

The area where birds of prey, blue wing kookaburra's etc were being housed has been chained off and I couldn't really see much in there apart from some peacocks.

One of the snake cages had had the front covered with newspaper the lights were on but I couldn't see what was going on there. 

The bottom line is that these animals are just going to continue to sit there because lets face it, who is going to buy a lizard with no tail or a gippy that looks near death. The overall hygiene was very poor many of the animals had soiled water and some had none at all. 

As we were leaving we noticed some of the advertisements on the front of the building boasting over 6000 animals on display, we also noticed a large warning sign saying: No Camera's, No Video Camera's or Digital Devices etc. 

The DSE and animal welfare organizations really need to act on this one and ensure that it doesn't continue to happen there or anywhere else!

I did take pic's with my mobile and I am considering posting later although I am concerned about the legality of doing so.


----------



## cris (Sep 12, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> I strongly suggest not getting television programmes such as Today Tonight involved as they have their own bad motives (they'll twist the facts to make whatever story will bring in the best ratings), and you could quite possibly end up with a story along the lines of "All reptile keepers are extremely bad, here is an example, we need to ban people from being able to keep them at all". Organisations such as the RSPCA would love to have reptile keeping by private individuals banned entirely, and such a story would give them a lot of ammunition against us



Just thought i would bring this point up again as it seems many of you have missed it.


----------



## coxy (Sep 12, 2007)

paleoherp said:


> I did take pic's with my mobile and I am considering posting later although I am concerned about the legality of doing so.


You should be able to post them, its not like your lying , there factual , and im not sure how legally binding that warning sign would be. But on the other hand read this 
*http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22405772-5001028,00.html*


----------



## coxy (Sep 12, 2007)

Hey just an idea, i wonder if someone could sue the pet shop for trauma or physcological illness , because they are traumatised and having nightmares etc by the site of seeing this animals in such a poor condition.


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 12, 2007)

Honeslty id say post them. Everyone on this site will back you up. Its factual and your standing up for something - not a tree huggin cause but for animal cruelty. We need to stop this store now! If I were in Melbourne i would be at there door petitioning and protesting. Maybe you need to get a band of people - say 20-50 ppl outside their doors on a weekend protesting - that way police and news crews will be attracted. Show that your more sad and upset rather than angry, as sadness wins over anger in any case with other people. Any progress anyone?


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 12, 2007)

lol i like it coxy!


----------



## weptyle (Sep 12, 2007)

i have been to this pet store before and its smells really bad. i feel sorry for the little animals. poor things.
i dont think they look after there animals at all.


----------



## theduclos (Sep 12, 2007)

lol, i buggered up, her name is rachel, dont know what i was thinking when i typed sarah lol.


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 12, 2007)

Every one has had a winge but only two people have given their details for the follow up investigation.
My girlfriend is being asked to verify what we are telling her and without your help i can do nothing!!!
Time to step up to the plate people those who have been there and know whats going on if you are serious about the conditions I need your info.
I have sent all the comments through to her but the department obviously want more specific information, I did this trying to help the situation and unless you all that know help as well these people will get away with what they have been doing for another 30 odd years!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mertle (Sep 12, 2007)

Perhaps some of the people only read the forums a couple of times a day and not had time to add details, 

It may be a good idea anyone planning to go there in the next few days to log what day/time they are there etc.

It may take a while to get it all together Odie, the sooner the better but at least some people have said they will go to get pics.


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 12, 2007)

bump


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 12, 2007)

Ditto 
Dates and times are needed no names or addressess come on guys are we closing this meat head down or not?????


----------



## alex_c (Sep 12, 2007)

OdessaStud said:


> Ditto
> Dates and times are needed no names or addressess come on guys are we closing this meat head down or not?????


 did you get my pm?


----------



## scorps (Sep 12, 2007)

i hate bad petshops


----------



## crush the turtle (Sep 12, 2007)

lets break in and steal all the reps..


----------



## mertle (Sep 13, 2007)

Not a real bright idea Crush, 

Then it would be bad press for the reptiles and we need bad press for the owners!


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 13, 2007)

Lol love the idea in theory though lol. But yeah they need details guys, anyone whos been into the store and has an opinion please give your details!


----------



## curtis (Sep 13, 2007)

OdessaStud said:


> Ditto
> Dates and times are needed no names or addressess come on guys are we closing this meat head down or not?????



And did you get my PM?


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 13, 2007)

I have forwarded the pm's sent to me to my girlfriend as they were written, keep them coming in please the more the better.
Sorry if i havent answered your pms im having trouble focusing at the moment.


----------



## Miss B (Sep 13, 2007)

That's understandable, given what you've been through recently! 

Best of luck with this ... would love to see something happen to these guys, they sound horrendous.


----------



## Zanejb (Sep 13, 2007)

ok im in no way stopping any of you from protesting or trying to have stores closed but i need to give you a little info that you need to consider, the DSE wont close a store down unless its almost been abandoned. they need these stores to pay for there licenses (which costs a few thousand) which pays wages, the DSE will only issue fines but stores still keep there licenses. also the DSE has very few staff that can investigate stores as most of there staff sit in a building answering telephones all day so dont expect them to get around to investigations any time soon. im not being negative but theres really nothing you can do in terms of closing down the store using the authorities. the only way is to stop any live animals from being supplied, but the store will always be there as they will still sell normal supplies. try your best guys but dont get your hopes up for a victory.


----------



## darbys girl (Sep 13, 2007)

:cry: Hay guys, taken a few days to get here but alas i have! just wanting to say its good to see that there is still fantastic people out there caring for our cute an fury friends! i too was a utter mess when i entered that big yollow pet cemetry on the springvale. i have only been in melb for a very short time and in that 4 weeks i have managed too visit nearly every pet store in the city! trying to get best deals and in the serch of the perfect 6 footer! Seen many happy pets  and perfectly clean cages! I take my hat off too the crew at the mentone and bungarong i think its called! some A-grade veiwing ! Then traveling down a highway i spoted a huge pet store and to the dismay of my boyfriend ( who has been living in the area for many years) wanted to go in! well yes i was shocked deverstated an so angry at the keeping of som of the so called PETS! These animals are not pets but prisoners, big pups in small cage, very very sad reptiles! som i do belive dead mayby good actors but i just dont know! wounds and scraps bad sheds, birds that should be able to fly! and all way over priced! i asked to speak to the boss and was presented wit a 17 year old girl! i asked questions on the health of certain reptiles, the reply was they have all been vet treated an in proscess of healing! I then said to her well why is that one dead then! Opps sorry was the answer! at this note i leaft the shop! Have returned every week to basicly observe! all the steff under 17 no idea what so ever! i have contacted the RSPCA but have not gained ground i have also been in contact wit DSE! But yes the problem being! so i have put my bit in and been in contact wit australia zoo requesting there support! we got to try and do somthing cause there is a lot of saddness around let us make it ! Its not as simple as the A B C! cheers!


----------



## alex_c (Sep 13, 2007)

darbys girl said:


> :cry: Hay guys, taken a few days to get here but alas i have! just wanting to say its good to see that there is still fantastic people out there caring for our cute an fury friends! i too was a utter mess when i entered that big yollow pet cemetry on the springvale. i have only been in melb for a very short time and in that 4 weeks i have managed too visit nearly every pet store in the city! trying to get best deals and in the serch of the perfect 6 footer! Seen many happy pets  and perfectly clean cages! I take my hat off too the crew at the mentone and bungarong i think its called! some A-grade veiwing ! Then traveling down a highway i spoted a huge pet store and to the dismay of my boyfriend ( who has been living in the area for many years) wanted to go in! well yes i was shocked deverstated an so angry at the keeping of som of the so called PETS! These animals are not pets but prisoners, big pups in small cage, very very sad reptiles! som i do belive dead mayby good actors but i just dont know! wounds and scraps bad sheds, birds that should be able to fly! and all way over priced! i asked to speak to the boss and was presented wit a 17 year old girl! i asked questions on the health of certain reptiles, the reply was they have all been vet treated an in proscess of healing! I then said to her well why is that one dead then! Opps sorry was the answer! at this note i leaft the shop! Have returned every week to basicly observe! all the steff under 17 no idea what so ever! i have contacted the RSPCA but have not gained ground i have also been in contact wit DSE! But yes the problem being! so i have put my bit in and been in contact wit australia zoo requesting there support! we got to try and do somthing cause there is a lot of saddness around let us make it ! Its not as simple as the A B C! cheers!


 if this doesnt work it would be quite possible to play a few simple mind games with those kids on msn if they have it and turn them against the owner im sure they will snap like twigs


----------



## troycoop (Sep 13, 2007)

Would love to help as alot of ppl have said but unless you can give me something to do here on the gold coast i can only hope and pray these A**H***s pay.. 

Kirsty


----------



## paleoherp (Sep 13, 2007)

I just spoke to somebody in the pet industry today who claimed she formally worked for the RSPCA. She was able to tell me that the Springvale City Council and the RSPCA have been building a case against this shop for the last 18 months in an attempt to close them down permanently, although I have not confirmed this for myself


----------



## Mystery (Sep 13, 2007)

darbys girl said:


> :cry: Hay guys, taken a few days to get here but alas i have! just wanting to say its good to see that there is still fantastic people out there caring for our cute an fury friends! i too was a utter mess when i entered that big yollow pet cemetry on the springvale. i have only been in melb for a very short time and in that 4 weeks i have managed too visit nearly every pet store in the city! trying to get best deals and in the serch of the perfect 6 footer! Seen many happy pets  and perfectly clean cages! I take my hat off too the crew at the mentone and bungarong i think its called! some A-grade veiwing ! Then traveling down a highway i spoted a huge pet store and to the dismay of my boyfriend ( who has been living in the area for many years) wanted to go in! well yes i was shocked deverstated an so angry at the keeping of som of the so called PETS! These animals are not pets but prisoners, big pups in small cage, very very sad reptiles! som i do belive dead mayby good actors but i just dont know! wounds and scraps bad sheds, birds that should be able to fly! and all way over priced! i asked to speak to the boss and was presented wit a 17 year old girl! i asked questions on the health of certain reptiles, the reply was they have all been vet treated an in proscess of healing! I then said to her well why is that one dead then! Opps sorry was the answer! at this note i leaft the shop! Have returned every week to basicly observe! all the steff under 17 no idea what so ever! i have contacted the RSPCA but have not gained ground i have also been in contact wit DSE! But yes the problem being! so i have put my bit in and been in contact wit australia zoo requesting there support! we got to try and do somthing cause there is a lot of saddness around let us make it ! Its not as simple as the A B C! cheers!



Good on you for having a go - what was the RSPCA's response?? I can't believe all these high powered so and so's just sit their with their arms folded!!


----------



## Midol (Sep 13, 2007)

EVERYONE needs to simply stop buying from stores that deal in live animals (maybe excluding fish). 

If they sell dogs, cats, reptiles, birds, rabbits, pigs... Then simply do not shop there. Find a store that sells only supplies and give them your business.

Amending this to say specialised reptile stores might be alright, but with cats, dogs and pigs... Always a no.


----------



## darbys girl (Sep 13, 2007)

Mate got to give a bash or yeah get no where! The response still poor but i am waiting from the aussie zoo crew to buzz me! if there is a will there is a way! those animals need us!


----------



## curtis (Sep 13, 2007)

OdessaStud said:


> I have forwarded the pm's sent to me to my girlfriend as they were written, keep them coming in please the more the better.
> Sorry if i havent answered your pms im having trouble focusing at the moment.



No problem! Just get in touch if anything interesting comes up. Thanks again for your help!


----------



## coxy (Sep 14, 2007)

Midol said:


> EVERYONE needs to simply stop buying from stores that deal in live animals (maybe excluding fish).
> 
> If they sell dogs, cats, reptiles, birds, rabbits, pigs... Then simply do not shop there. Find a store that sells only supplies and give them your business.
> 
> Amending this to say specialised reptile stores might be alright, but with cats, dogs and pigs... Always a no.


Thats fine in theory, but how many of the people that buy from these shops are on these forums, or any animal related forums for that matter, not that many. So what do you propose can be done to educate the general public about buying from these store's????


----------



## sxc_celly (Sep 14, 2007)

Theres already an organisation called "say no to animals in pet shops". I believe someone on this website has it as there signature. Ive dealt with them before, handed out flyers and put hand outs in peoples letter boxs. They believe in NO animals in pet store. No birds, no reptiles, no fish, no dogs no cats nothing, just supplies. In theory i did believe in it - but it will NEVER happen. There are some good stores out there who do care greatly for their animals and have the housed fed and cared for properly - and always make sure the right animals goes to the right home. But on the other side there are fools like the ppl in this store who dont give a damn except about the money. Honestly i think pets in stores are alright now - after leaving that organisation. I believe only pure bred animals - there should not be any cross breeds in stores - if you want a crossbreed go to the RSPCA and rescue one there. And honestly Im sure pets in pets stores - in clean caring monitored conditions are much better than those backyard breeders - with cats and dogs in worse conditions than can be imagined!


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 14, 2007)

Zanejb said:


> ok im in no way stopping any of you from protesting or trying to have stores closed but i need to give you a little info that you need to consider, the DSE wont close a store down unless its almost been abandoned. they need these stores to pay for there licenses (which costs a few thousand) which pays wages, the DSE will only issue fines but stores still keep there licenses. also the DSE has very few staff that can investigate stores as most of there staff sit in a building answering telephones all day so dont expect them to get around to investigations any time soon. im not being negative but theres really nothing you can do in terms of closing down the store using the authorities. the only way is to stop any live animals from being supplied, but the store will always be there as they will still sell normal supplies. try your best guys but dont get your hopes up for a victory.


 
Your almost right about DSE, however, they send field officers out to inspect the store, if it is an issue with health and hygiene then it goes to DPI, if it is ilegal reptiles/animals the DSE deal with it. As for RSPCA....all creatures cute and cuddly....they actually condone the killing of snakes...I know this from personal experience...dont hope for help from them.....unless there are cute little furry animals involved!


----------



## cris (Sep 14, 2007)

Midol said:


> EVERYONE needs to simply stop buying from stores that deal in live animals (maybe excluding fish).



Why not fish? why shouldnt they have feeder insects? Fish are alot harder to care for than most reptiles.
I personally think they should completely ban all private keeping aswell since some private keepers are cruel and neglect their animals


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 14, 2007)

IMO we need to focus on the problem of "bad" pet stores.....the selling of animals can be done in a manner in which the animals are not distressed and are well looked after....in QLD the stores need to do a husbandry course in order to sell reptiles....in victoria....send off your money.....get through the inspection....no problems.....I have 1st hand knowledge of a local pet store who has never kept reptiles getting a permit and employing inexperience teenagers to sell the reptiles....nothing against teenagers, but many dont have the knowledge needed to pass on information to people when they buy their first reptile....maybe regs need to be tightened in Victoria to prevent this from happening?!?!?!


----------



## Mystery (Sep 14, 2007)

cris;934802
I personally think they should completely ban all private keeping aswell since some private keepers are cruel and neglect their animals :rolleyes:[/QUOTE said:


> Spot on - not all private keepers, but there are some horrific puppy farmers out there, like the guy on TV the other night with the Chihuahua's - absolutely disgusting. I don't believe in supporting puppy farmers. How can anyone with that many animals possibly look after them. We also have some pretty bad reptile keepers around here.
> Where does this Springvale pet shop get there reptiles from? Do they breed their own? If not the ppl supplying them must be just as bad!! Or they get them from interstate so the breeders can't see where they are going.


----------



## cris (Sep 14, 2007)

Mystery said:


> Spot on - not all private keepers, but there are some horrific puppy farmers out there, like the guy on TV the other night with the Chihuahua's - absolutely disgusting. I don't believe in supporting puppy farmers. How can anyone with that many animals possibly look after them. We also have some pretty bad reptile keepers around here.



Yeah especially when it comes to rodents, probably the majority of rodents kept for snake food would suffer far more cruelty than those dogs you mention. 

I was being sarcastic with the above comment i really hate idiots who want to ban stuff completely because some do the wrong thing, these sort of ppl are the biggest risk to our freedoms in general, true scum IMO.


----------



## Midol (Sep 14, 2007)

Cris, where did I say I wanted to ban stuff completely? 

There is nothing wrong with restricting how you can buy animals. When I said excluding fish I meant for specialised aquarium stores. The thing is, I've NEVER seen a pet shop sell dogs, cats or pigs ethically (rather impossible actually given the registered breeders code of ethics bans selling dogs to petshops...) and I've never been into a pet shop who knows anything about dogs (breeds or health)... Hell, last week they had GSD x Shiba Inus in and were claiming they were easy to train? ***. That is the stupidest cross I've ever seen and certainly will not be easy to train. Three quarters of the people on APS will have no idea. Dogs are a completely different animal than rats (if you hadn't noticed) and there requirements are far different. You can't compare the two.

Coxy, quite simply I'd like to see it banned and then the public has to go through private breeders. Using dogs again as an example, a registered ethical breeder screens all owners to ensure the dogs are going to a good home. The pet shop? I can walk in there tomorrow and buy out their entire 'stock' of dogs and they won't bat an eye lid.


----------



## OdessaStud (Sep 14, 2007)

Im sorry everyone but i can no longer deal with this issue as well, 
Please send your emails and details to the Springvale Shire they are in the phone book.

Also anyone waiting for rodents from me im sorry but im now out of business if i cant even save a baby what good am i to anyone.... So sorry


----------



## Miss B (Sep 14, 2007)

Odessa, don't feel bad - you tried your best 

And I'm sure Robbie's family are grateful for that!


----------



## cris (Sep 14, 2007)

Midol said:


> Cris, where did I say I wanted to ban stuff completely?



You dont actually have to try and take things as personal attacks or critisim, sorry if you thought that was directed at you. Athough i do see your approach as similar, just not as extreme and far more rational. I dont try and argue with ppl just ideas most of the time i dont even take notice of who says what.

You have attacked all petshops with your statement and i think its just absurd to suggest no petshops anywhere can have satisfactory knowledge of any animals but fish. I do agree that specialty shops are generally the ones that treat animals well(this is more because they have more passion than drive for profit IMO), but there is absolutely no reason why shop workers couldnt have knowledge of more than one class of animal.

I keep various reptiles, frogs, fish and mammals i know how to care for these animals, if i opened a petshop it would have all these types of critters and they could easily be well looked after.

IMO rats and dogs have very similar style of requirements in that they are both intellegent social mamals, sure one wants to hunt and kill while the other is more of a foraging animal but they still have the same sort of basic needs.


----------



## alex_c (Sep 14, 2007)

cris said:


> Why not fish? why shouldnt they have feeder insects? Fish are alot harder to care for than most reptiles.
> I personally think they should completely ban all private keeping aswell since some private keepers are cruel and neglect their animals


exactly one simple stuff up with fish and you can lose $1000+ worth in a few hours


----------



## Midol (Sep 14, 2007)

Cris, I guess so. But dogs require companionship and needs to be socialised. I really don't think a rat is going to give a toss whether you take it for a run everyday and such? Dogs aren't just social animals, they are pack animals. They need to be a part of a pack and part of the no dogs/cats/pigs in petshops is because of compulsive purchasing - people compulsively buy the animals and realise they can't care for them. Though I guess this happens with most animals - dogs and pigs (and cats) are just my main focus.. Even if their needs are similar, the level of care greatly differs along with the cost of keeping them (generally, sometimes rats might need expensive operations? I don't know. I don't keep rats )

Alex C, yeah, I have a big problem with specialised aquariums selling stuff to people with small tanks as well. Like offloading blue tangs to people that have 2ft fish tanks is just cruel. Stocking Moorish Idols is just as bad. 

-----

What are the rules on petshops selling reptiles? Can they stock any reptiles?


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 14, 2007)

You need to remember that there are pet stores out there that actually care about their stock and will only stock what they know about. However there are more stores out there that only think of the bottom line, some of the more well known stores will sell good quality animals and to a new commer will sell as much product as they can......over pricing much of thier stock....I heard of one store quoting a new customer they need to set aside $1000 to set up for a carpet python.....many pet stores only care about profit...they are in business of making money...otherwise why work!


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 14, 2007)

This is just a quick response for a few of the comments about pet shops in general...
I don't think it is fair to generalise, and please don't take this as an attack because it really isn't, I just want people to realise that pet stores and their workers aren't all the same. I worked for approximately 7 years in numerous pet stores and spent 6 years of that time managing, and I trained all of my staff to say no where they thought it was necessary. On numerous occasions I said no to people who wanted to spend around $800 - $1000 on various puppies for the simple fact that I didn't like the way the puppy responded to them. I also trained my staff to tell customers to go away and think about whether or not they were 100% ready to buy a puppy or kitten, and I would hold onto animals for a day or so for customers just to make sure they were 100% sure they were making the right decision. 
I think the main problem tends to be pet store owners - they tend to start out with good intentions, and along the way they just go off track and start looking too much at the money side of things. It is just a shame that it happens to so many of them... They give the few genuinely good ones a really bad name.


----------



## Midol (Sep 14, 2007)

Bourbs, how many of the puppies that came into your store was from registered, ethical breeders who had pedigrees and had health & genetic testing carried out? None.

I work with dog rescue, it's a very ODD occasion when we have a purebred dog come through... I've never seen a purebred dog in SCAR and that rescue has over 100 dogs


----------



## herpheaven (Sep 14, 2007)

Whilst I agree with your comment bourbs, it needs also to be mentioned that this is not the typical case, I have visted pet stores all over Victoria, NSW and QLD and not once has a staff member told me no, nor have they held animals for me for a day or so.....infact many have said if you dont take it now we cannot hold onto it. Pet stores are like any other business, they need to sell things to keep their head above water, money has to come into it or why have a business in the first place. Pet stores are only as good as the people who work there!


----------



## wantacroc (Sep 14, 2007)

Everyone Has Gone Completely Off The Topic. Has Anyone Gone And Taken Any More Photo's? I Seen The Ones On The Previous Thread, Is There Anymore? There Was So Much Momentum From Everyone To Protest, What Happened???


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 14, 2007)

Midol : Registered breeders don't actually sell to pet stores, and I'm quite sure that they aren't allowed to.. I never claimed that the stores I worked in obtained animals from registered breeders, and did I mention pure breeds or pedigrees? Pretty sure I didn't. 
However, all of the animals from private breeders were checked over by me before being allowed into my stores, and I also had them thoroughly vet checked shortly after purchase, and enforced a policy of post-sale vet checks. I took down the names and contact details of anyone I got animals from, and I would also ask the breeders (no matter what the animal was) one hell of alot of questions which would require them to actually know what they were doing in order to give me the right answers. I also took down the contact details of people I sold animals to, so that I could contact them in the event of any problems (this never occurred because I was careful about the animals I allowed into the store) or just to give them a follow up call to see how they were going. There were also alot of times when I said no to breeders when I didn't think their animals were healthy or well cared for. 

All of that said, I no longer work in the pet industry for the simple fact that it is a money dominated industry and I don't agree with the way the industry is run. I spent my years making a difference in my little corner of the world but you can only do so much before it becomes too much to deal with.


----------



## Bourbs (Sep 14, 2007)

and as I said.. the vast majority of store owners have gone off track and headed in the money direction and it makes a bad name for the good ones. All I was getting at is they aren't ALL bad, there are SOME good ones.


----------



## cris (Sep 14, 2007)

Midol said:


> Cris, I guess so. But dogs require companionship and needs to be socialised. I really don't think a rat is going to give a toss whether you take it for a run everyday and such? Dogs aren't just social animals, they are pack animals.



If you kept a single rat social interaction is important as it is for dogs, although admittedly they maybe slghtly less social as they dont hunt in packs(i hope). 
The main differance is many ppl see rats as pests or snake food so dont really care about their wellbeing.
As a pet same general basic requirements, as breeders same general style of requirements dogs just have a high status in our society, so what is seen as cruel to a dog would be accepted by many towards a rat.


----------



## Midol (Sep 14, 2007)

I care about the well being of Rats  If they need social interaction with humans (I assume they need something to keep them entertained?) then people should be making people aware of this when they breed them.

If Rat breeders kept their rats in appalling conditions I'd disapprove most vocally, the main problem is Rat abuse isn't as easy to spot as dog abuse, dogs are incredibly vocal, some are large and very easy to spot  

I intend on breeding my own mice and rats when I have a few snakes, they will all be treated as pets and I won't stick 100 in a small container so they kill and maim each other.

Now that you've mentioned this the same kind of abuse applies to wild snakes, people view them as vermin so abusing and killing them seems to be socially acceptable to a degree. Sure, if it's an immediate threat the humane killing of a snake could be justified but usually it isn't justifiable.

Bourbs, I GUESS that is better than nothing, but you're not going to convince me dogs in pet shops is a good idea.

Wantacrock, if we want to get some mass action going (as in mass emails and letters sent to newspapers, shire councilors, store owners then I think another thread needs to be created. I'd be happy to get involved and if the pet shop in question sells dogs I am happy to take it over to the dog website I am on. If we want to start some mass action lets create a new thread and get it under way?

We are getting way off topic


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

hey its me back again in melb! Haven a look around the pet shops again! did go to the same one as last time on springvale! this time even more so over stocked and yet again animals in desperate need of som luving care!:cry: There was 4 dead tortises and i mean at least 3 weeks of decay! My boyfriend pulled 2 up on to a rock removing one from the pump! As i mentioned i was there a few weeks ago and there was a very well marked and allright looking ridgy monitor! which is now emaciated has eaten his toes off and very starved looking! this animal was amazing! Sixteen adult bearded dragons in a very small cage! black headeds look like pencils in skin bags! 60 cookatoos,major mitchelsand galahs in a 2 meter square cage! dead fighter fish! The list is extensive!  I rang the RSPCA, then personaly went there explaining what i saw and also showing them some footage i took of the deceased animals! If anyone out there has any footage to help this cause or can obtain som please forward it to burwood RSPCA! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP!PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP!

CHEERS!


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

hey its me back again in melb! Haven a look around the pet shops again! did go to the same one as last time on springvale! this time even more so over stocked and yet again animals in desperate need of som luving care!:cry: There was 4 dead tortises and i mean at least 3 weeks of decay! My boyfriend pulled 2 up on to a rock removing one from the pump! As i mentioned i was there a few weeks ago and there was a very well marked and allright looking ridgy monitor! which is now emaciated has eaten his toes off and very starved looking! this animal was amazing! Sixteen adult bearded dragons in a very small cage! black headeds look like pencils in skin bags! 60 cookatoos,major mitchelsand galahs in a 2 meter square cage! dead fighter fish! The list is extensive!  I rang the RSPCA, then personaly went there explaining what i saw and also showing them some footage i took of the deceased animals! If anyone out there has any footage to help this cause or can obtain som please forward it to burwood RSPCA! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP!PLEASE HELP! PLEASE HELP!

CHEERS!


----------



## Colin (Oct 4, 2007)

maybe the NSW NPWS and government officials should go for a visit to this shop seeing there's talk of having reptiles legalised for sale in NSW shops soon


----------



## Miss B (Oct 4, 2007)

Ugh, that sounds gross. I wish I lived nearby so I could go take a look myself.

Amazing that people actually purchase from stores like this... surely they can see the condition of the animals there, why would anyone want to support a business like that? :|


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

I dont go there to purchess a single thing! for some dumb reason i continue to go there to see the emaciated animals! and i suppose hope that i will go there and he has been shut down! I also go to obtain footage to support this case! cheers!


----------



## Miss B (Oct 4, 2007)

Yeah darbys girl I would be like you I think... would have to keep going back... not to purchase, just to see the animals. Sorry, I wasn't implying that you supported the pet store! 

Obviously some people are blind to the terrible condition these animals are in, and continue to purchase from them, otherwise this pet store would have gone out of business a long time ago.

Do you have any photos you can share with us, darbys girl?


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

yeh it all cool mate i diddnt take it as a personal attack at all! yes i do have a few pics to share but it will take me a bit to foger out how to put it on to the computer! i a bit of a learner! u see soon and hopfully a lot more people!


----------



## Miss B (Oct 4, 2007)

Ok cool 

If you want to email the photos to me, I could upload them and post them for you.


----------



## junglepython2 (Oct 4, 2007)

Colin said:


> maybe the NSW NPWS and government officials should go for a visit to this shop seeing there's talk of having reptiles legalised for sale in NSW shops soon


 
Arh what a pity MRW closed down they could have visted them while they are here


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

cheers mate! im giving it a bash now but if i need yah help i will let u know soon! gotta learn somhow!


----------



## kirstys (Oct 4, 2007)

I an new here my fiance is just getting in to snakes and i am in melbourne if any one need help with this i am in what ever you need am more than happy to go down and take photos and make some notes please tell me what i can do to help, as i may not be able to get back to this forus i am still in learning at this stage my email is [email protected] and mobile is 0438 946 564 .


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 4, 2007)

hay mate glad u can help! go to the big yellow pet cemetry on springvale and get as much distressing footage you can and forward it to burwood RSPCA! WOW! we need more like you! I have spoken wit the rescue officer in charge and made a statment too them also showing them my footage! They need more FOOTAGE! it would be great if you could make a trip!  
CHEERS!


----------



## kirstys (Oct 4, 2007)

i will go on saturday and get as much as i can let you know how i go


----------



## OdessaStud (Oct 4, 2007)

Kirsty
If you get any photos or infomation please forward it to the Springvale Shire Council which is on Springvale road only about 5klms from this store.Also the RSPCA is in Keysborough only about 6 klms from it and im sure between them they will do something.Havent been in contact with my girlfriend since my last post but am waiting for a reply and will let you all know what if anything the shire can or has done.
Odie


----------



## darbys girl (Oct 5, 2007)

OdessaStud said:


> Kirsty
> If you get any photos or infomation please forward it to the Springvale Shire Council which is on Springvale road only about 5klms from this store.Also the RSPCA is in Keysborough only about 6 klms from it and im sure between them they will do something.Havent been in contact with my girlfriend since my last post but am waiting for a reply and will let you all know what if anything the shire can or has done.
> Odie


 
Nah guys send it to BURWOOD RSPCA! Allready wheels in motion! CHEERS!


----------



## OdessaStud (Oct 5, 2007)

darbys girl said:


> Nah guys send it to BURWOOD RSPCA! Allready wheels in motion! CHEERS!




Ok looks like darbys girl has it all under control, I suppose the bylaws in Springvale are just there for the sake of being there (rolls eyes) Do want you want Ive tried and now I wont enter into it anymore.


----------

