# Why you shouldn't take your snake to the shop.



## cement (Apr 26, 2011)

As a snake catcher and relocator, I get to see and meet many different types of people who are having a confrontation with a reptile.

It didn't take me long to figure out that the majority of people I meet are flat out scared of reptiles. If I was to extrapolate the percentages I would guess that probably 90% of people are scared and under the wrong impressions about our native herps and talk of wives tales that they were told and believe.

In fact in the years that I have being doing this I have only ever been able to actually hand a wild diamond to 2 people for a quick hold. This is after talking the truth about them and following it up with a demonstration and is a part of my job in educating the public.

To look at it further, I would say that 15% of all my call outs are to people who are so scared of reptiles that they physically become sick at the sight of them, and stress terribly if they get much closer then a few meters away. One example just quickly, (and I have heaps) is the young fella who is a nurse (so fairly hardened to blood and guts etc) who had a bluetounge stuck in his laundry, which i removed. he was so stressed at the sight of it he almost passed out and had to sit down and could not look at it. I had to bag it and keep it out of sight. There was no point at all in hanging around and talking of the beauty and truth about them.

To help these people is our job as reptile rescuers. You soon understand that it is simply the way it is, and you will not change these people. You have to respect that persons point of view, and handle the situation professionally, and with real care for the person involved. They have done the right thing by calling us, so we catch the animal and get it out of there as quickly as.

These people are in our society, and just because we feel comfortable with our one or two pet snakes, doesn't give us the right to take our pets out into the public domain. The NPWS, and the police etc also realize that there are these reptile phobic people in society, and this is why it is illegal to take them out into public without the proper authority.

To do so, is not only breaking the law, and your reptile keeping licence conditions,
but a vain attempt to show everyone how special you are, at the risk of severely stressing out other members of the public. You can do what you want at home with them, but if you can't be responsible with them then you will eventually probably lose them and also damage everyone else's chances of keeping at the same time.

Cars..... Another point to make here is this. I was told before I started relocating that i must have the animal bagged and in a transport tub. On that tub must be a sign/sticker declaring that inside the tub is a venomous snake (if it is a ven).
If I am ever involved in a car accident and the cops or ambo's see that I am carrying a tub that says venomous snake on it, They will not touch me until another snake handler is called and there is no threat to them. This will be the case if you need help and a python is loose in your car too. Ironically, it could well be the snake that causes the accident, and then you bleed out waiting for someone who knows snakes, to move it out of the way.

It boils down simply to RESPECT. Respect of others who don't share your passion.


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## Defective (Apr 26, 2011)

hey cement and mods, can this be made a sticky???


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## Wally (Apr 26, 2011)

Nicely said cement.


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## kawasakirider (Apr 26, 2011)

I thought one of the things that hasn't been discussed when talking about this topic is the stress to the animal, also. I don't think snakes would like going out for a cruise or going into a cold shopping centre and constantly being shaken around by walking and driving. I bought my snakes up from Ipswich to the sunshine coast in a click clack with a sock in it to hide. Two were ok but one was fairly scared, and a sock in a click clack in a car driving on a straight highway is a lot less stressful than a trip to the mall.


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## bigfella77 (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, never thought about the car accident scenario makes a lot of sense though not that i take mine out in public.


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## CamdeJong (Apr 26, 2011)

Lambert said:


> hey cement and mods, can this be made a sticky???



Agreed. And maybe put into point form and included in the DMP Handout. This is exactly the way I treat callouts and reptile husbandry.


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## -Katana- (Apr 26, 2011)

I get clammy and nauseous when I'm around Vens. after my little incident at the Ettamogah Pub so I can fully understand someone feeling ill when confronted by something they are afraid of or have had a very bad experience with.


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## kawasakirider (Apr 26, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> I get clammy and nauseous when I'm around Vens. after my little incident at the Ettamogah Pub so I can fully understand someone feeling ill when confronted by something they are afraid of or have had a very bad experience with.


 
What happened at the Etemogah pub?


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## -Katana- (Apr 26, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> What happened at the Etemogah pub?



A handler got bitten by a Tiger Snake and I managed to keep him alive long enough for the Ambo's to get there.


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

Reptile-phobic people, yes. But I also have a phobia of dogs 
Unfortunately, apart from the legal aspect, all it boils down to is 'it's not socially acceptable, therefore don't do it'.
It sucks that this just helps to continually reinforce the stigma associated with reptiles.

Having said that, the only place I've taken my reptiles is to the vet, and local SOFAR meetings.


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## Renenet (Apr 26, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> A handler got bitten by a Tiger Snake and I managed to keep him alive long enough for the Ambo's to get there.



I can totally understand why you'd get a little light-headed around vens. Have you told this story in more detail elsewhere? I'd like to read it if you have. It could be a good lesson.


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## -Katana- (Apr 26, 2011)

Renenet said:


> I can totally understand why you'd get a little light-headed around vens. Have you told this story in more detail elsewhere? I'd like to read it if you have. It could be a good lesson.


 

Yes I have...I believe it was a thread about "free handling vens."


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## FAY (Apr 26, 2011)

Some people have a phobia for snakes especially. Some phobias can start the person hyperventilating it is that bad....would you want to be responsible for someone going into cardiac arrest because of your silly actions??? Plus in NSW it is against your licence conditions.


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## benjamind2010 (Apr 26, 2011)

The thing that annoys me is that there are things a lot worse than snakes out there, and happen in many families, but eh, we won't talk about that, will we? Humans are not a bright species, they never have been, they are generally run by fear or lust, and unfortunately that is unlikely to change any time soon. Humans start wars, fight over resources, kill, plunder, and squander, and judge themselves as right and everyone else wrong. Such is the pathetic state of human nature. We never change. Get used to it. In the meantime, don't take your snakes out because 90% of the population will not appreciate it and will more likely revile at the sight of a snake!


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

Some people suffer social and a multitude of other phobias, too. Am I to claim responsibility for those, too?
If you really want to be pedantic, don't interact with ANYONE. Because they could have any possible phobia
(or combination thereof) you don't know about.. I'm scared senseless by large, barking dogs. We should ban those too, and ban public
off-leash areas for dogs too, right?

I know there's the legal side, but there's more to it than that and I think it is worth discussing. Besides, do
we really want to use the Nuremberg defense? Rather than some kind of draconian law enforcement, I would have
thought education and changed policies would be a better bet, but that's just me.



benjamind2010 said:


> The thing that annoys me is that there are things a lot worse than snakes out there, and happen in many families, but eh, we won't talk about that, will we? Humans are not a bright species, they never have been, they are generally run by fear or lust, and unfortunately that is unlikely to change any time soon. Humans start wars, fight over resources, kill, plunder, and squander, and judge themselves as right and everyone else wrong. Such is the pathetic state of human nature. We never change. Get used to it. In the meantime, don't take your snakes out because 90% of the population will not appreciate it and will more likely revile at the sight of a snake!


 
lol, agreed. A lot of humans scare me much more than reptiles - the potential to do harm is much greater.


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## snakeluvver (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, how could you be scared of a bluetongue


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

Has anyone seen those bearded dragon leashes for sale? I've seen them at a few local pet stores..


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## Renenet (Apr 26, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Reptile-phobic people, yes. But I also have a phobia of dogs
> Unfortunately, apart from the legal aspect, all it boils down to is 'it's not socially acceptable, therefore don't do it'.
> It sucks that this just helps to continually reinforce the stigma associated with reptiles.


 
Interesting point SYNer. And yes, there are definitely many members of the public who would prefer never to encounter dogs, but dogs are not regulated to the same extent as reptiles. My heart starts to beat fast when I see a dog near me that's off the leash.

Before I go on I should say I don't take Zephyr outside my home, not even in my apartment complex. First, I don't think it's necessary. Second, I don't know when I'm going to meet a person who's absolutely petrified of snakes, and, like Kawasaki said, I wouldn't want to stress my girl. 

I think it might be unfair to say that every person who takes their snake for a public walk is being a show-off. While it certainly isn't legal, or perhaps right, I think some people do it because to them their reptile is a companion just like a dog or cat. To me, reptiles are different than mammals, even if they are a companion, but I'm beginning to see there are a variety of attitudes within the reptile-keeping community. 

Cement: thank you for talking about your experiences as a reptile collector/relocator. I love hearing from people who do this job. A thought-provoking post.


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## Smithers (Apr 26, 2011)

Great heads up for those who do take there reps on trips to the shops etc,..re the car crash scenario .....I think those who do (other than public education exhibitors) are in it for the look at moi aspect for attention knowing that they may well encounter someone who has an adverse reaction and get their silly kicks outta it. Stepping off soapbox now


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## FAY (Apr 26, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Some people suffer social and a multitude of other phobias, too. Am I to claim responsibility for those, too?
> If you really want to be pedantic, don't interact with ANYONE. Because they could have any possible phobia
> (or combination thereof) you don't know about.. I'm scared senseless by large, barking dogs. We should ban those too, and ban public
> off-leash areas for dogs too, right?
> ...




Phobia or No phobia, it is AGAINST your licence conditions to have your reptiles out in public places UNLESS you are at the vets or at a reptile show or you have an exhibitors licence.


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## CamdeJong (Apr 26, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> The thing that annoys me is that there are things a lot worse than snakes out there, and happen in many families, but eh, we won't talk about that, will we? Humans are not a bright species, they never have been, they are generally run by fear or lust, and unfortunately that is unlikely to change any time soon. Humans start wars, fight over resources, kill, plunder, and squander, and judge themselves as right and everyone else wrong. Such is the pathetic state of human nature. We never change. Get used to it. In the meantime, don't take your snakes out because 90% of the population will not appreciate it and will more likely revile at the sight of a snake!



Humans are also run by love and reason, we share resources, save lives, risk ourselves for and believe in one another. People do change as individuals, and while I think we're the only species capable of hatred, admitting it without mentioning that we're also capable of love is just opening the door for the Four Horsemen! Don't worry, be happy now!


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## Darwin-Girl88 (Apr 26, 2011)

i take my girl out the front to have a play on the grass and there may be the odd occasion i may take her in the car when she gets bigger but will definately not take her to any public place


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

FAY said:


> Phobia or No phobia, it is AGAINST your licence conditions to have your reptiles out in public places UNLESS you are at the vets or at a reptile show or you have an exhibitors licence.


 
And if you read my post(s), I'm NOT arguing this point and I said I've never taken my animals anywhere except the vet or local SOFAR meetings. Nor am I condoning the behaviour of anyone who takes their animals out in public. 

I was merely trying to open the discussion more instead of the typical 'it's illegal and not up for discussion' herd-morality.
Funnily enough, this is how politics progresses - open, honest discussion without resorting to '..but it's illegal!'.


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## Wally (Apr 26, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Has anyone seen those bearded dragon leashes for sale? I've seen them at a few local pet stores..



It is also illegal, at least in Vic, to harness or tether a reptile.


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## Defective (Apr 26, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> And if you read my post(s), I'm NOT arguing this point and I said I've never taken my animals anywhere except the vet or local SOFAR meetings. Nor am I condoning the behaviour of anyone who takes their animals out in public.
> 
> I was merely trying to open the discussion more instead of the typical 'it's illegal and not up for discussion' herd-mentality.



i think that this was a generalised post, it doesn't seem to be directed at you. FAY is just saying unless you have to just leave the snake at home


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## Tinky (Apr 26, 2011)

I am always disapointed that we cannot take our reptlies anywhere.

I have really apreciated people like SYNeR and other that do take their animals to Herp meetings. For a long time we have been an underground hobby. How do we get to see these animals and learn form other keepers. There is really only so much that you can leand from reading. The best learning is an interactive experience.

How does someone facinated by a hatchie coastal determine how they will cope with handeling the little guy when he is over 3m. 

In a nutshell I support the not taking your animals hear there and anywhere (ie public places), however would like to see some allowance for herp society meetings.

FAY: Have people ever bought their animals to your meetings, and how would you react to such a breach of licence conditions.


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## GeckoJosh (Apr 26, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> The thing that annoys me is that there are things a lot worse than snakes out there, and happen in many families, but eh, we won't talk about that, will we? Humans are not a bright species, they never have been, they are generally run by fear or lust, and unfortunately that is unlikely to change any time soon. Humans start wars, fight over resources, kill, plunder, and squander, and judge themselves as right and everyone else wrong. Such is the pathetic state of human nature. We never change. Get used to it. In the meantime, don't take your snakes out because 90% of the population will not appreciate it and will more likely revile at the sight of a snake!


Not a bright species compared to what exactly?


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## CrystalMoon (Apr 26, 2011)

I feel this is a very constructive way of pointing people in the right direction without making them look stupid or feel ignorant. It is also more inclined not to get their defences up. Pen is mightier then the sword....
We all as humans make silly mistakes or use poor judgement, putting people in the "spotlight" as individuals can sometimes make them veer away from the very information your trying to impart to them. Be it from ego or embarrassment amongst their peers. 
Well Done
Kind regards
Crystal


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

Tinky said:


> I am always disapointed that we cannot take our reptlies anywhere.
> 
> I have really apreciated people like SYNeR and other that do take their animals to Herp meetings. For a long time we have been an underground hobby. How do we get to see these animals and learn form other keepers. There is really only so much that you can leand from reading. The best learning is an interactive experience.
> 
> ...



Out of curiosity, how does SOFAR (and other herp meetings) allow us to bring our reptiles?
Exhibitor licence?



Geckoman said:


> Not a bright species compared to what exactly?



Idealism and well, lesser species to an extent sometimes unfortunately lol


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## Smithers (Apr 26, 2011)

Rachy11 said:


> there may be the odd occasion i may take her in the car when she gets bigger



Hey Rachy, I think you may have missed the point of the thread,....re read what was said about the ambulance scenario if your snake is loose in the car after an accident paramedics and police will not try and save your life if it's needed till a snake handler is called. I think this is if you had a sign stating vens on board or not on the tub, could mean your life or death as suggested in original post. I suggest you don't take him for little jaunts around the block etc.


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## SYNeR (Apr 26, 2011)

Will it help if I put 'cute little Stimson python - the most placid animal I've ever come across' on the click-clack?
This is an honest assessment!


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## sookie (Apr 26, 2011)

OMG....how long are pple going to keep flaming me?and i bought my lizard a harness and leash from a very 'legal' pet store.squish enjoys cruising around on the grass feeling 'free'.my snakes are more than just pets,they are my constant companions,or were until this morning.i talk to them while on my laptop or in my shirt,which i suppose is wrong too,every morning when i get up so does the snakes,for me to quick pat on the way to coffee,they like to be acknowleged,or i thought they did til this morning.right now sookie la-la is at the top of her enclosure gently tapping her nose on it saying c'mon mum it's out time,which til this morning would have been true.


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## Darkhorse (Apr 26, 2011)

Sookie, you need to calm down - this is not all about you. Besides what's to stop you doing what the rest of use do... enjoy our animals in the privacy and security of our own homes. No one has told you, you are not allowed to remove your snake from her enclosure in your own home. You just have to respect the law.


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## smigga (Apr 26, 2011)

sookie said:


> OMG....how long are pple going to keep flaming me?and i bought my lizard a harness and leash from a very 'legal' pet store.squish enjoys cruising around on the grass feeling 'free'.my snakes are more than just pets,they are my constant companions,or were until this morning.i talk to them while on my laptop or in my shirt,which i suppose is wrong too,every morning when i get up so does the snakes,for me to quick pat on the way to coffee,they like to be acknowleged,or i thought they did til this morning.right now sookie la-la is at the top of her enclosure gently tapping her nose on it saying c'mon mum it's out time,which til this morning would have been true.



What happened this morning???


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## sookie (Apr 26, 2011)

The other thread got closed this arvo.name calling,insult throwung smart#$%^ comments and sniggers all towards me,because my snakes are like dogs to me,constant companions.not just pretty ornaments or baby making money making machines.they are my family in a lot of ways,close family.and i got flamed hardcore and nasty.


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## cement (Apr 26, 2011)

On the topic of stressing the snakes out , I know of heaps of snakes that can handle crowds, even a large red belly that is always free handled like a python and climbs around peoples shoulders. For some snakes the excursion out is not a problem.
I have even had to get a diamond out of from behind the dashboard of a car which was parked next to a known diamond python haunt so I figured it must have climbed in the window while it was parked. After disassembling the dash I found out that the snake was a pet and they always drive around with it. The job took me 1.5 hrs and it was a 6 ft solid python. She had it get up in the dash and called us, because she had to get to the airport to go overseas. She never actually said that it was wild but she never said that it was her pet either until I questioned her later and her daughter came up to take it. We are volunteer wildlife rescue, not "i'm a moron, pet owner rescue", and there goes an hr and half out of my arvo after a 8hr day at work.

In a lot of ways I wish Australia was like Bali, but in a lot more, i am glad it isn't.

I didn't put these words down to point the finger , but more to try and get some realisation out there. We as humans have ALL manner of fetish and personal likes and tastes, but this thread ONLY relates to herps. 

I love to scare me mates with snakes, it's part of being aussie, but I am respectful of others.


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## dangles (Apr 26, 2011)

Scenario, you take your friendly snake to the shops. Whilst there someone has their Jack Russell there going walkies. The JR sees said snake and has a crack at it as you walk past without warning. Your snake is now injured and stressed, the poor JR you would want put down for being a dangerous dog when it was only doing what it would do in its own yard


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## Renenet (Apr 26, 2011)

longqi said:


> Meanwhile we will still wander around the streets here where most of the local shop keepers know each snake by name Gotta love Bali



Yup. You couldn't take snakes for a walk for much of the time in Melbourne because it's too freakin' cold! 

I'm curious, Longqi, what is the general Balinese attitude towards snakes and other reptiles? I'm guessing the population isn't as frightened or disgusted by them as they are here?


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## longqi (Apr 26, 2011)

Cement I know exactly where you are coming from and you started a good thread that raised some very interesting points that led to mostly healthy debate
Its all good
While I was in Aus I 'usually' tried to obey the restrictions there
But I didnt like them too much

Asian people as a community are usually terrified of snakes
But they very quickly have adopted ours
Even if they avoid coming into the display most of them have decided the snakes are not too bad after seeing them so often


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## Renenet (Apr 26, 2011)

longqi said:


> Asian people as a community are usually terrified of snakes
> But they very quickly have adopted ours
> Even if they avoid coming into the display most of them have decided the snakes are not too bad after seeing them so often



That's a good result and perhaps an argument for being able to take them out.


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## cement (Apr 26, 2011)

longqi said:


> Cement I know exactly where you are coming from and you started a good thread that raised some very interesting points that led to mostly healthy debate
> Its all good
> While I was in Aus I 'usually' tried to obey the restrictions there
> But I didnt like them too much
> ...



I agree, we are over governed here and there are WAAAY to many rules regarding everything. Wasn't meaning to dig at you though mate. Cheers. Hey is Yani's still open? He had some owls and parrots in his restaurant and i got to feed a mouse to his big owl one night after he closed up and we stayed for a few drinks. I am going back a long long time though..


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## syeph8 (Apr 26, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> Some people suffer social and a multitude of other phobias, too. Am I to claim responsibility for those, too?
> If you really want to be pedantic, don't interact with ANYONE. Because they could have any possible phobia
> (or combination thereof) you don't know about.. I'm scared senseless by large, barking dogs. We should ban those too, and ban public
> off-leash areas for dogs too, right?
> ...



Give it time mate, this is a growing industry and people in general are starting to get over their phobias of reptiles. we can't force people to get over their fears and prejudice but we can endure it until they get over it themselves. I personally have witnessed many people go from utterly terrified of snakes to wanting to handle mine on a regular basis and some have even gone and got their license and got their own. So from this i can say that the time will come. Might not come however if reptile keepers are forever associated with "that crazy guy carrying a snake through the shops" or a group of people who are breaking (or simply refusing to acknowledge) the law. 

Dogs is a different story and are integrated into Australian culture. there are poems, songs, statues and stories about the aussie man and his best mate the dog. all the stories about snakes, with exception to those stories by the (sensible and wise... and traditional owners of the land) Aboriginal people, are about the killer anaconda or the deadly viper etc etc etc. you can't really draw comparisons between the two. it's like saying that nudists should be allowed to walk around in the nude even though many people would feel uncomfortable standing in line infront or behind a nudist or sitting next to one at a restaurant. nothing wrong with being a nudist, but at the same time its just not part of our current cultural framework and demanding such is just going to make people think you're a bunch of nutters. 

not arguing with you, simply putting forward a new perspective.

addition: despite the apparent implication.. i myself am not a nudist. thanks for the interest


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 26, 2011)

what sort of tool is taking a snake for a walk into a shoppin center or pub, seriously! what the hell happened to common sense?
respect ya fellow man and for the love of jebus think before you talk or act.


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## Inkage (Apr 26, 2011)

When i was like 11 we bought a filthy big coastal back on the train from Redfurn, the guy gave it to us in a cardboard box, the box did not restrain it..It ended up wandering around the carriage wrapping around the seats and such..At the time it was the biggest snake i'd seen and pretty scary..As you'd imagine this wasn't entertaining for people..Ha. But with the train guards help and some duck tape it was back in the box. Close as iv'e come to taking an animal in public.


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## FusionMorelia (Apr 26, 2011)

way to take something personal.
if you want to take a snake into an area where it can possibly bite someone or hurt a kid then be sued beyond belief then go right ahead man
be my guest


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## Wookie (Apr 26, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> Humans are not a bright species, they never have been


 
Give me some of what you're smoking bra ;D. I joke. I know you're just exaggerating to make a point.


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## Darkhorse (Apr 26, 2011)

sookie said:


> The other thread got closed this arvo.name calling,insult throwung smart#$%^ comments and sniggers all towards me,because my snakes are like dogs to me,constant companions.not just pretty ornaments or baby making money making machines.they are my family in a lot of ways,close family.and i got flamed hardcore and nasty.


 
Sookie you seem to be taking this all very personally. The other thread was not closed because of name calling, insult throwing etc as if this had been the case it would not have been merely closed but deleted. It really wasn't that nasty, you just didn't like what the others had to say about the morality/legality of your actions.


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## longqi (Apr 26, 2011)

NatoRey said:


> way to take something personal.
> if you want to take a snake into an area where it can possibly bite someone or hurt a kid then be sued beyond belief then go right ahead man
> be my guest



That is why they have thing called Third Party Public Liability Insurance
$812 per annum if you use pythons only for $20m cover
AAMI Adelaide arrange it quickly and easily

Isnt it amazing that even on here people can think that a python can hurt someone??
Compare python related injuries to dog cat or horse injuries
There is simply no comparison at all

While even reptile keepers still have the view that pythons are dangerous these draconian laws will never change
WE are the first ones who really need to change our attitudes
Once a month during the dry season the Dome in Cairns takes a few slitherers and a croc or two down to the Lagoon
which is a very popular waterfront area in Cairns
The only people who ever seem to complain are Aussies
The Tourists love it simply because they have seen similar things back home

Our laws regarding reptiles are so antiquated it beggars belief

here is a classic very simple example
A Wildlife Demonstrator in Qld is supposed to tell DECC exactly with what, where, and how he is going to do a display
The forms take about two weeks to turn around with basically a permission slip/movement advice
No alterations are legally permitted without prior approval
So you fill in the form exactly as asked
Your BHP goes into shed mode the day before the show
Legally you cannot do the show because you will have altered the slip

I have no idea if they have ever enforced this law
But its on the books and legally they can do so but even they shake their heads about it

So long as pythons are looked at and treated as 'dangerous' animals these laws will not change
It is only through public awareness and public contact that this view will ever change

But never forget one important fact
Dont take snakes shopping

They dont like ice cream


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 27, 2011)

Many of you who read my first post in the thread now closed will remember I said the law is an *** when it comes to reptiles.

However, the law being an *** doesn't preclude the use of good judgement where sharing your snake (or any animal) with others, or simply being a self-indulgent prat and showing off are concerned. Sookie has certainly lived up to her name when it comes to responding to very valid criticism of her snake-handling habits, but instead of saying 'Yes, it is a big risk driving with my snake on my lap in my car for several very obvious reasons (driver distraction, interference with the controls, escape into the seats or dash)... so in future I'll stick to enjoying my reptiles in the privacy of my home where we can be discreet and safe' she goes into a self-indulgent sulk.

It's not the person Sookie, it's the behaviour that's being questioned. If these posts serve to keep you off public roads when you are driving with a snake 'on your lap,' when anything could happen to distract you or risk your snake's wellbeing, then you just have to cop it. If there's a news headline 'Pet snake in car causes crash' it makes all reptile keepers look like dangerous weirdos, and gives more power to those who already exert too many constraints on us.

If you are unable to enjoy your animals for what they are, in the privacy of your own (or someone else's) home, then perhaps you have reptiles for the wrong reasons. Your needs appear paramount here, not the needs of your snakes...

Jamie


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## Snakeluvver2 (Apr 27, 2011)

God I love it when you post. 
Even when you are bagging me out. 
It's great haha.


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## zack13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Great post I completely agree. And to anyone who would argue that it is positive press and does good that is silly. You CAN NOT guarantee that the snake will not bite and the one time a snake finally does the negative press will far out weigh any positive press accumulated.


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## TigerCoastal (Apr 27, 2011)

I will admit that i am guilty of having one of my snakes out of the click-clack in the car while i was driving, but i have only done it the once. Me and my girlfriend had driven over an hour to pic up a snake and as we had the kids with us and it was lunch time i dropped them at Maccas while i went to pick up the snake. She hadnt seen the snake other than in pics, and is as confident as i am handling snakes so she got it out while we were on our way home. After 2-3 mins it got put back in the click clack as it kept trying to get into the vents in my dash. That was the first and last time its ever happened, now we wait until we are home to have a look.

As for taking them in public, i was in a store the other day looking at some jungles. I was in the herp area of the store holding a 3.5-4' jungle when another customer walked into the area. They didnt realise that i was holding a snake until they were about 3 steps from me when i turned around to look into another enclosure. The other customer freaked out and started hyperventillating. We put the snake back into its enclosure and helped to calm him down a bit and while talking to him, found out that he keeps beardies, but still cant get over his fear of snakes. So basically what i am saying is that even in an area where it "should" be accepted you can still run into someone that may have an adverse reaction to the animal.


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## Chris1 (Apr 27, 2011)

i have to admit, i poop myself a bit when i see a dog bolting owards me off its leash too, im fine with dogs i know, but strange dogs not so much,...i jumped up on a fence to escape a jack russell the other day, then laughed at myself cos theyre so small!!

totally agree its better not to take snakes out in public, but i have found alot of people with snake/reptile phobias want to overcome them, ive had plenty of people knock on my door and ask to hold a lizard (theyre pretty visible as they live on the windowsills), then once theyre comfy with that they ask to hold a snake.


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## Defective (Apr 27, 2011)

is there a reason this thread is not a sticky yet??? very good reasons as to why not to take a snake out....did i forget a off duty DECC officer might see you and report you


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## moosenoose (Apr 27, 2011)

My mother-in-law states she feels physically sick when confronted with a reptile and cannot bring myself to look at them, unfortunately I am intolerant of this and feel as though I'd dearly love to slap her  I know it won't make her feel any better, but I will 

Some people need to get over themselves.

(any chance my post could be made a sticky also? )


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## SamNabz (Apr 27, 2011)

Great thread cement, some very valid information.



Pythoninfinite said:


> Many of you who read my first post in the thread now closed will remember I said the law is an *** when it comes to reptiles.
> 
> However, the law being an *** doesn't preclude the use of good judgement where sharing your snake (or any animal) with others, or simply being a self-indulgent prat and showing off are concerned. Sookie has certainly lived up to her name when it comes to responding to very valid criticism of her snake-handling habits, but instead of saying 'Yes, it is a big risk driving with my snake on my lap in my car for several very obvious reasons (driver distraction, interference with the controls, escape into the seats or dash)... so in future I'll stick to enjoying my reptiles in the privacy of my home where we can be discreet and safe' she goes into a self-indulgent sulk.
> 
> ...


 
I agree 110% with what you have just said Pythoninfinite and also think that people definitely need to learn how to accept criticism a lot more, as not everything someone tells you is an attack.

sookie sorry to say but you seem to be a pretty irresponsible keeper. Loving your pets and treating them as family is no problem, but when you start treating herps like cats and dogs then it becomes a problem as they are far from it.
No one is telling you to just look at them in their enclosure, however it is a pretty careless act to drive around with them in the car. Enjoy them in the privacy of your own home/property but do not take them out into the public as it is irresponsible and *illegal* unless you are taking it to the vet or are shipping it out etc.

If you want to walk something on a leash, buy a dog please...


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 27, 2011)

> My mother-in-law states she feels physically sick when confronted with a reptile and cannot bring myself to look at them, unfortunately I am intolerant of this and feel as though I'd dearly love to slap her I know it won't make her feel any better, but I will



Funniest post I've read in a long time - just about soiled myself when I read that !!!

Jamie


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## Wookie (Apr 27, 2011)

Why do people take them out? Attention? If you want to show somebody, make them come to your residence. Better for you and your snake.


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## longqi (Apr 27, 2011)

How good a thread is this?
Some well thought out discussion on the most part

Probably 80% agree that its a bad idea?
Probably even most of the other 20% agree that it should be done responsibly especially regarding transporting reptiles?
But almost everyone also agrees that the laws need changing?

This will be good to read again way into the future
Hopefully things will have changed


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## saximus (Apr 27, 2011)

Haha I love taking a couple of days off APS and coming back to these topics (the other one was more entertaining though ).
Cement it was really interesting to read about the car accident thing. I had no idea about that sort of law (guess I'd never thought about it) but it makes sense that people aren't going to put themselves in immediate danger like that. 
I've never experienced a true phobia before so I didn't realise people literally make themselves sick over this kind of thing too.
Thanks for all of the info guys and girls.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 27, 2011)

My friend is a tattooist and she is so phobic about snakes she can't even tattoo them.


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## GSXR_Boy (Apr 27, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> My friend is a tattooist and she is so phobic about snakes she can't even tattoo them.



Does she get many snakes asking for a tattoo?


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 27, 2011)

GSXR_Boy said:


> Does she get many snakes asking for a tattoo?


 Lol


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## Wookie (Apr 27, 2011)

longqi said:


> This will be good to read again way into the future
> Hopefully things will have changed


 
Pro rights I guess mate. Most people walk their dogs that have as much potential to cause injury as any python (obviously not vens) so why can't we take our pythons out in public? I guess because its deemed we have no reason to. And I think I agree. Its stress on the animal for one. Its generally not publicly accepted - even if it was legal. Snakes don't benefit from a walk on a leash either . The only reason I'd want the law changed would be to cover me in transit and if I take them out to the curb for sunning. (not that they police it anyway)


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## moosenoose (Apr 27, 2011)

My snake keeps pulling through the leash when I'm walking it....it's a real nuisance!


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## SamNabz (Apr 27, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> My snake keeps pulling through the leash when I'm walking it....it's a real nuisance!


 
Lmfao, yeah that would be a pain


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## abnrmal91 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wookie said:


> Pro rights I guess mate. Most people walk their dogs that have as much potential to cause injury as any python (obviously not vens) so why can't we take our pythons out in public? I guess because its deemed we have no reason to. And I think I agree. Its stress on the animal for one. Its generally not publicly accepted - even if it was legal. Snakes don't benefit from a walk on a leash either . The only reason I'd want the law changed would be to cover me in transit and if I take them out to the curb for sunning. (not that they police it anyway)


 
Another reason is there is a greater risk of a snake escaping of it was out. The risk of releasing a out of area snake into the area isn't good. Yes I understand dogs aren't native to specific areas. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## graphitebeans (Mar 20, 2012)

I find that even people who are afraid of snakes will relax when watching me handle mine. My best friend just visited from Cairns, and I had my spotted hanging out on my lap while we were watching TV. She was on the other side of the couch, and at first she was staring at him like he was a drooling fiend. After about 1/2 hour she relaxed enough to touch him on the back-end ("I'll keep the pointy end over here, you can touch that bit") She really enjoyed it. Hands-on isn't necessary, but watching a relaxed person handle a snake can do wonders for herp PR.
I find, though, that talking to everyone and anyone who will listen is best for public education, though. Most people don't realize that snakes won't give chase (I do always acknowledge the feisty-ness of the coastal taipan though) and that most people who are bitten are trying to catch/kill the snake. Explaining why you like and keep them seems to help a lot. 
Right now, Australia isn't ready for snake-owners to be able to bring them out in public, but talking to people seems to really help, and you know they're going to keep it in mind as it's so different from anything they've probably ever heard before.


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## Gruni (Mar 20, 2012)

The kids in the classes I visited were enthrawled watching me handle Skittles and they found it really funny when I talked to him after he did a bluff strike at my face and told him to settle down and not be so grumpy. The fact that I wasn't scared or put off by his little show made the world of difference even to the kids who were shrinking back in their seats when I took him through the group for a closer look.


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## Bushman (Mar 20, 2012)

Although this is not a fresh thread it remains a potent and insightful opening post by Cement. 
An interesting discussion ensued as well. Bravo!


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