# Corn Snakes



## sydneygoldsales.com (Mar 14, 2004)

Hey everyone.

I know a guy who knows a guy, who knows a guy who has albino corn snakes in Australia which are obviously not on his licennce.

I was wondering what peoples opinions on this were? and why? I have seen photos and they look F#%$!*G AWESOME.

Being new to the whole reptile thing I don't know of all the cons that everyone will probably list, but I don't see why it is a bad thing, so long as they are kept in captivity only, by responsible people that ONLY keep them in cages and don't let them into the wild.

Opinions?


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## BROWNS (Mar 14, 2004)

Not everyone is responsible,they are exotic and also raise the question of disease.They're prolific breeders that would be right at home in our environment if enough escaped or were released.This then brings up endless environmental and wildlife damage questions.

We have plenty of our own natives that are awesome animals. 

Cheers.....


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## sxereturn (Mar 14, 2004)

Yep, look at Cane Toads here, or even better, Brown Tree Snakes in Guam. Hell, there has been reports of Burmese Pythons in the Daintree. Look at the Red Eared Sliders in Sydney and Brisbane...we don't need any more exotic reptiles in Australia.


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## Tommo (Mar 14, 2004)

never heard of burms in daintree...

i heard of a lady in the paper in melbourne with a exotic permit who was illegaly breeding corn snakes.


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## sxereturn (Mar 14, 2004)

Yeah it was in the paper a while ago, somebody (herp-related) said there was Burms up there. Normally I'd call bullshit, but if there was going to be rogue Burms, that is where they would be. You could easily get them up there through PNG, and it's perfect habitat.


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## Tommo (Mar 14, 2004)

well png was connected to australia not long ago in the planets time so mabey nature wouldnt consider it a threat


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## sydneygoldsales.com (Mar 14, 2004)

I agree with what you have all said.

I guess my question was assuming that the owner actually was 150% responsible. ie, there actually was no chance of the snake ever getting anywhere near the wild.

eg, although you guys would not have one, I am sure due to your concern there is simply no way you would ever release one into the wild, or allow it to happen in any way shape or form. You would also have it checked out by a vet to make sure there are NO diseases, or nasties. With the snake being in the custody of someone that IS that responsible, I think it would be ok. But thats just my opinion.


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## Splitmore (Mar 14, 2004)

Bondisnakes,
You certainly don't have to go through the six degrees of seperation to find people who keeps corns in this country, there would be close to as many corns bred each season as there are childrens pythons.
The laws regarding keeping of exotic reptiles in this country is a complete debarcle. You have some states that legalised keeping exotics to a select few who declared them in amnesties and other states that outlaw it completely. You can currently keep exotic fish and birds, which are far more likely to escape and produce feral populations, so why shouldn't we be allowed to keep exotic reptiles?
The argument that they will escape and form feral populations is extremely weak. There are already thousands of exotics kept here yet how many feral populations exist?None, with the exception of sliders which have been here for well over 20 years when they were imported legally. The chance of corns or burmese or anything else escaping and forming feral populations in Australia is virtually nil. How long do you think a baby corn snake would last in the bush?There are millions of reptiles kept as pets all over the world and when you compare that to the odd feral population that pops up from time to time you don't really have an argument. How many people here keep native reptiles but live outside the animals natural range? Why aren't you petrified they are going to escape and displace the local wildlife? There must be hundreds of childrens pythons that escape from keepers each year in Sydney yet how many feral populations of them exist? Studies have been done on wild snakes that have been captured and relocated some distance away but into similar habitat and the majority of them died. I know of one study in the US on rattlesnakes and the mortality rate was well over 90%. 
Exotics are well and truly here in this country and here to stay no matter what objections certain people have to them it's time that the government recognised the issue rather than continually pushing it aside.


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## NoOne (Mar 14, 2004)

Well said Splitmore, theres probably just as many exotics being kept as there is natives, i know of several people who have all kinds of wierd and wonderful exotic reptiles as well as natives.
The other arguement that gets put forward alot is that exotics carry diseases but that is crap as well. Most people keeping exotics are good repitle keepers with disease free collections just like us and in fact we would not have to import many repitles as most are already here and in good numbers.

I'm not really to fussed if it's legal or not if i wanted to keep exotics bad enough i would but it is about time they did something.
It will be legal one day it can't be ignored.


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## ackie (Mar 14, 2004)

i dought that there are as many exotics being kept as natives. I also know a few people who keep corns and just about anything else ya can think of (including chemeleons). Although i like the look of many exotics i am happy with the natives as they look better.


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## NoOne (Mar 14, 2004)

You would be surprised how many exotics are being kept and bred in OZ you really would.


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## NoOne (Mar 14, 2004)

....


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## NCHERPS (Mar 14, 2004)

Splitmore, I agree 100% with you.
Alot of people have been brainwashed with the escape and disease theories, there has been many studies of these types of things in other countries including the UK and US and it's just not a big problem.

I have no interest personally in keeping exotics, as I have kept them in the UK for the past 19yrs.
Once I came out here, I just want to keep the Australian species, some of which were expensive in the UK and alot cheaper here, some obviously the reverse(GTP's as a example!, although from what I have been told 95% of them are exotic locality animals from Indonesia or PNG)

I feel that if what people are saying is true, then exotics should be licensed legally across the states and then at least it can be monitored to some extent.

Just my 10 cents worth.

Neil


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## Tommo (Mar 14, 2004)

the lady who was breeding the corn snakes also had leopard geckos and a green iguana.


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## Greebo (Mar 14, 2004)

Unless the government can find a way to make money out of it, they are not going to do anything.


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## womas4me (Mar 14, 2004)

I have been told that relocating a snake more than 2 kilometers from its home range is equivalent to a death sentance. Any one know more on this.


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## Adam (Mar 14, 2004)

I used to keep albino corns before I got my license a few years ago and I think they are great!!!! I would still have them if it wasn't for the fear of an inspection just like iluvs..... just had and losing my whole collection!!The whole load of crap about escape and disease is all just hype IMO. Hurry up and license it so we can all keep 'em. And there really is more exotics out there than you might think,just like there is a lot more smokers out there than you think!!


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## cwarren72 (Mar 15, 2004)

Well as nice as they are and regardless of my opinion on the subject I like having my licence and I love the herps I have and would rather spend my money on my house then spending it to pay off fines for keeping illegal stuff. Those who want to keep them I say good luck to them and the ones who get caught I say stiff bickies to them.


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## Fuscus (Mar 15, 2004)

Do you really think after the cane toad and now the red-slider that they are going to loosen the law?


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## NCHERPS (Mar 15, 2004)

Probably not Fuscus, but they were species introduced in a time when they hadn't really thought about what enviromental impact there would be on the native populations.
Every potential legalised exotic would have to be considered on it's merits, but I still think that it's better that the Goverment know who has exotics and what they have by legalising them, they way they have a little control, and a little is better than none!


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## peterescue (Mar 15, 2004)

I dont care about my license as such but I do care about my animals.
The threat of my animals being euthanaised because I needed to keep an exotic is enough for me.
There are stiil plenty of species here to keep me happy.
Peter


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## NCHERPS (Mar 15, 2004)

I agree with that statement Peter, I as I have said I feel the exactly the same.
I will not ever keep anything illegally, all I am saying is if there are as many exotic out there as people are saying then it needs regulating in some way, and the most obvious would be to license them, it would only be a start not a entire solution, I agree.


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## basketcase (Mar 15, 2004)

*.*

if u actually knew what the authorities can and cant do u'd see why its a growing problem. if ur not a complete moron u can get away with plenty, and if u have half a brain ur pretty damn safe.

its just up to whether or not u want to take the risk

cheers, jono


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## peterescue (Mar 15, 2004)

You'd actually be surprised at what they can do. If they dont like you they can just pass you on to another department.
Once AQIS get involved there are ways of circumventing any rights you thought you had. 
Of course you can keep things in secret. I have the real Mona Lisa hanging on the back of my shed door but no one else has seen it.
Peter


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## Moclobe (Mar 15, 2004)

*150% responsible????*



bondisnakes said:


> I agree with what you have all said.
> 
> I guess my question was assuming that the owner actually was 150% responsible. ie, there actually was no chance of the snake ever getting anywhere near the wild.
> 
> eg, although you guys would not have one, I am sure due to your concern there is simply no way you would ever release one into the wild, or allow it to happen in any way shape or form. You would also have it checked out by a vet to make sure there are NO diseases, or nasties. With the snake being in the custody of someone that IS that responsible, I think it would be ok. But thats just my opinion.



If the owner was *150% responsible* Then he wouldn't be breaking the law by keeping exotics


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## Simon_Archibald (Mar 15, 2004)

*^*


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## lutzd (Mar 15, 2004)

*It's a fake*



peterescue said:


> I have the real Mona Lisa hanging on the back of my shed door but no one else has seen it.
> Peter



Sorry Peter, but you've been taken in by unscrupulous characters! The _*real*_ Mona Lisa is hanging on the wall in my toilet - has been for years. 

...and to keep this on topic, and for what it's worth, I don't agree with keeping exotics, much as I'd love to keep a few.


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## Adam (Mar 15, 2004)

Well this is a good post!!! No nasty replies,so good to see people!!! I agree with nearly all comments above except the cane toad arguement,they were introduced without the proper enviroment impact studies done because they simply didn't care back then,however with laws in place and licensing to go with those laws,then the Government could have some control and make themselves their oh so important dollars with licenses and movement notices! I will never keep anything illegal for fear of my animals being taken off me but I would be the first to start buying some exotics thats for sure.That said I do agree with the people who say we have plenty of natives,but really look at some other specimens,they can be quite spellbinding!!


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## Adam (Mar 15, 2004)

What would you keep if you could have exotics?


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## iluvsmyreptiles (Mar 16, 2004)

I would keep a green iguana.


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## Adam (Mar 16, 2004)

I would like an albino Burmese, old school but that describes me.


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## Matty_2004 (Mar 23, 2004)

Guy down the street from me had (got busted) a heap of illegal shiat...albino burmese pythons, albino corn snakes, milksnakes or whatever, iguanas, oh jeez. . .he had everything!


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## Greebo (Mar 23, 2004)

It was me that dobbed him in! :twisted:


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## Matty_2004 (Mar 23, 2004)

Say what?


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## Woma_n (Mar 24, 2004)

I agree. Ive seen an albino corn and they are soooo good arent they! I so want one.


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## kevyn (Mar 26, 2004)

There's a couple of things I have to say on this subject. 1.if an albino corn escaped it would be picked off pretty quick. It's albino and stands out like a sore thumb. It would have no chance here. 

2. The main reason the problem of farrel populations isn't really an issue in the U.K. and [/u]most of North America is because it's too cold here for alot of species to survive. 

3. Burmese Pythons, Nile Monitors, Ball Pythons, Boa Constrictors, Green Iguanas, are now found in books detailing wild life found in the Florida Everglades. They are very established there. Reticulated Pythons are also begining to carve out a niche there. It is happening here. What effects this will have there is yet to be determined. But it is certainly something to think about. I can only think that with the intorduction of new perditors the effects won't be too good given the rapid rate at which the Everglades are shrinking. 

I'm not saying I'm against exotics in Australia but that's easy for me to say as I don't live there. But it's very possible. Most of the burms and such in Florida didn't escape, they were released when they became too big to care for or when the novelty ran out. What will people in Australia do when they can't accomidate their 21ft. Retic, or their 19ft. Burm. ? The disease thing I don't buy at all, but in some areas of Australia these animals could survive. The Everglades are perfect habitat for all those animals.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 26, 2004)

> intorduction of new perditors



Been on the red have we mate?  LOL


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## Fuscus (Mar 26, 2004)

I really don't understand the attraction of corn snakes, a coastal is a much more interesting animal. And any exotic could cause terrible damage to the natives. Do we dare take that risk?


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

Actually a freind of mine had a pair of albino's in with a pair of maccies of the same size and in the first nite one of the maccies killed and tried to eat one of the corns,so they wouldn't be a threat IF they escaped in our wildlife.I suppose it is a bit like why do some people like Fords more than Holdens? :wink:


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## Fuscus (Mar 26, 2004)

THat is only under those circumstances, what happens if, for instance, the cornies happen to move into the mirco habitat that baby diamonds like. I'm not saying that it would happen, but it is a possiblity. And the first thing we would know about it is when the diamonds disappear.


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

The muumy and Daddy Diamonds would eat every last corn snake around before they made the little baby Diamonds.I do see your point though Fuscy 'ol matey. :wink:


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## moosenoose (Mar 26, 2004)

I met a few breeders when I was looking around for a python and one of them had a red tailed Boa (I think from memory it was a red tailed one ?definitely a Boa just the same) I?d prefer to keep the name of the guy quiet, just in case he was telling me a wobbly. I asked him how on earth he gets away with keeping it, and he told me he owned it before the laws were made outlawing them (I don?t know? I?m just telling the story!) He said it was micro-chipped, he was banned from breeding it, selling it or anything without notifying the DSE, as it was classed as a pest. Absolutely beautiful snake to say the least, it?s such a shame they are banned when you see how beautiful they are! I don?t know personally about owning something like that in the long term though (don?t they grow absolutely huge??), I don?t own a 10X10 foot garage to keep it in, and I?d have to keep a head count on the kids in case one got eaten. Anyway, I?d like to comment that the government?s ban on these things is quite hypocritical. It shows just how much they know when they helped introduce Cane toads and Indian Myna birds (thanks a bucket load) ?that?s the pot calling the kettle black.The only thing its done is increased my wrist-rocket skills. Does anyone know the pro?s and con?s of micro-chipping snakes? I mean you can?t lose stuff that easily if it?s chipped can you???


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## Springherp (Mar 26, 2004)

the fact that indian myna birds and cane toads were introduced, helped the government to realise that introduced animals can have an impact on the Aussie environment. I don't think it is hypocrytical of them at all to ban exotic animals in Australia they have just learnt from their own mistakes. 


> I’d like to comment that the government’s ban on these things is quite hypocritical. It shows just how much they know when they helped introduce Cane toads and Indian Myna birds (thanks a bucket load) –that’s the pot calling the kettle black.



also it was not actually the government's fault for introducing cane toads, it was the sugar cane industry. (just finished a school assignment on cane toads)


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## Adam (Mar 26, 2004)

We are not talking about introducing a species to the wild though which is what everyone is saying and using as an example,we are talking about responsible licensed herp keepers.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 26, 2004)

For every one that is responsible there is one that is irresponsible. Leave 'em banned I say


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## Fuscus (Mar 26, 2004)

There are responsable cat owners too!
Need I say more or should I cringe and await the flame


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## africancichlidau (Mar 26, 2004)

Just stand behind that sheet of asbestos and stand ya ground Fuscy, you are right mate !


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## soulweaver (Mar 27, 2004)

lol afro


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## moosenoose (Mar 27, 2004)

I find that hard to swallow. You won?t find any of them sticking their hand up for copping the blame for that one! Sugar was one of our biggest raw exports, who?d you think wanted to protect it??. I still reckon the Government would have had to put the little round stamp on the piece of paper to say it?s fine, go ahead and use your 101 toads! (I appreciate your assignment on it & your research, but?.Hmmm) The Myna ?bastard of a bird! Was another stuff up! Rubber stamp that one too! I?m sure it was introduced for cane beetles as well! (smart move) I appreciate they?ve learnt from their mistakes and slapped an across the board ban on everything. Surely there could be strict guidelines laid out in the form of compulsory chipping. Obviously there are people out there with these sorts of animals who would be deemed irresponsible and I?ve never seen any Corns or Boas zipping up & down my street! But my god, have I seen a crap load of damn Mynas! I also lived in Queensland for most of my life ?try not to trip over the toads at night o.k! Look, I?m just throwing up a healthy argument, I?m not fussed or looking for exotics like these, simply because, I reckon some of the Jungles & blackheads I?ve seen around compete with just about anything you?d find elsewhere in the world. However, if people still own these things illegally, and they aren?t likely to hand them over, something else needs to be done!


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## Adam (Mar 27, 2004)

I have never claimed to be a responsible cat owner!!They keep the bird population down,them birds always poopin' on my Limo's.Hmmmmmmmm where's my sheet of asbestos??lol


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## moosenoose (Mar 27, 2004)

I?ve been putting dry cat food in rat traps outside for the Mynas ? Pfftt ?feathers and crap everywhere!!!!!?.I think I might have a dislike for them!


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## africancichlidau (Mar 27, 2004)

> birds always poopin' on my Limo's.



Better than dogs urinating on the tyres


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## Fuscus (Mar 27, 2004)

The best way to get rid of Indian mynas is to have large populations of Rainbow lorikeets and Noisy Miners (not related). These are aggessive native birds that don't tolerate Indian miners and the way to attract them is to plant flowering gums and grevillias. I think Rainbow lorikeets are on the increase anyhow.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 27, 2004)

I do believe you are right Mark, there seems to be a lot more of them around in the last couple of years


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## moosenoose (Mar 27, 2004)

Funny you mention that Fuscus, I reckcon the lorikeets are on the increase as well! Since I have been seeing more RL I?ve been noticing less Mynas! Thought I must have rat-trapped them all!


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## africancichlidau (Mar 27, 2004)

Wishful thinking I think!


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## moosenoose (Mar 27, 2004)

That?s chucked a Lorikeet amongst the Mynas!


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## sydneygoldsales.com (Mar 27, 2004)

This year in particular I noticed a whole lot of baby ones too. Even around bondi.

There must be something in the air. Horny little barstards. =)


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## Greebo (Mar 27, 2004)

What about the European carp or rabbits or foxes or even those red ear sliders that were recently in the news.
What do politicans have do gain by legalising exotics? It's hardly going to generate much revenue and it would be incredibly hard to police and regulate.Face it ,it's never going to happen.


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## instar (Mar 27, 2004)

nswpw should encourage more people to get reptile pets, then we could sleep at nite without yappy dogs. how come you dont see reptile food and products advertised on tv like cat and dog stuff. more wildlife shows too .why dont the rspca encourage native pets if they have to kill sdo many cats and dogs? more reptiles, less dog poo ,less bark, less dead wildlife.


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## Greebo (Mar 27, 2004)

You are preaching to the converted Instar.


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## instar (Mar 27, 2004)

what do you mean?


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## instar (Mar 27, 2004)

how come you buy fish from overseas then?


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## Fuscus (Mar 27, 2004)

Instar does have a point, you can keep exotic birds, fish and furballs including a number of invasive species but you can't keep exotic animals. BUt them the law is rarely fair.


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