# Colin the whale and ethics



## SlothHead (Aug 21, 2008)

Most people by now would know about Colin the grey whale, just want to see some opinions of people for the decision to interveen and put the whale down later tonight. 

Cheers
Dustin


----------



## mckellar007 (Aug 21, 2008)

man are they gonna feel bad if they put it down and a pod of whales come by tomorrow looking for it.


----------



## fishbot (Aug 21, 2008)

What about all the animals that feed on dead whales? If we save all the injured animals what will the scavengers have to eat? Why don't people worry about their needs?

Nature is harsh but fair, leave it to die I say.


----------



## SlothHead (Aug 21, 2008)

I would love to know Attenboroughs take on it as there are so many interesting implications of it.


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 21, 2008)

If they put it down it will have to shot wouldnt it?
The green dream in that amount would make for a deadly meal for the scavengers.
I reckon they should let nature take its course or failing that shoot it.
Very sad but thats probably the best.


----------



## spilota_variegata (Aug 21, 2008)

I'm stunned that they haven't figured out a way to feed it - maybe put a teat on the bottom of one of their boats. It's going to be sad when he dies, but nature is sometimes cruel.


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

I can't understand why after all this amount of time, that they don't know what a baby whale eats. Surely with all the supposed 'research' that the Japanese are doing, they could have come up with something. I don't feel that enough has been done. Also don't think they should be putting it down. If they aren't going to try and help it, then they should just let nature take it's course and at least give the poor guy a chance to find it's own way in life.


----------



## Smellie (Aug 21, 2008)

I think letting it die should be the last resort. If they have a chance at saving it, as slight as it may be, it's a chance none the less. If we could just keep it alive until the migrations, that would be great. But if we couldn't feed it, and couldn't keep it alive, we should put it down, not let it die, because for it to starve to death seems a little crule. I know we can't do anything about it, but I guess the one thing we could do, after trying to feed it, would be to do it ourselves.

I don't know, that's just me. But I think any chance at saving him is better then none at all


----------



## cris (Aug 21, 2008)

what happened?


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

They are going to put it down tonight.


----------



## CodeRed (Aug 21, 2008)

Depends. How much you can get for 2 tonnes of sushi?


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Aug 21, 2008)

Its wrong! That marine biologist bloke made up a teat and had 4 litres of milk ready to go feed him and got turned away by authorities. He had dairy milk and crushed up fish and stuff blended, authorities said it may be ahrmful to colin.... so is killing him. Why not just give him dairy milk and see what happens and if worse comes to worse euthanaese. They have done nothing to try and help this guy.:evil:


----------



## alex_c (Aug 21, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> I'm stunned that they haven't figured out a way to feed it - maybe put a teat on the bottom of one of their boats. It's going to be sad when he dies, but nature is sometimes cruel.


i was thinking the exact same thing. but it may be hard to get the milk formula and teat right.


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

On Channel Nine right now they are talking about how the American's have worked out how to feed baby whales so there is something they can do. Someone needs to pull their finger out and do something instead of just giving in and taking the easy route. The marine biologists at Seaworld can surely do something to help this little guy.


----------



## Whisper2 (Aug 21, 2008)

Did you see the thing on a current affair?
Many great ideas but the people with the power arnt willing to help or even try.
Then again they have only a day so i guess that they have to be rational.
Poor Collin.....


----------



## xander (Aug 21, 2008)

I think that the mother rejected him for a reason. Probably happens a fair bit, only we dont see it. Its ironic that the people who are whinging about the whale getting put down(people Ive been talking too)are pro shark nets?????(I asked them of their views on this)It really should of been euthanised first thing. 4 litres of milk would do bugger all for a whale that size. It would need 100s of litres a day of milk. Cows milk is unsuitable, as its not high enough in fat, and how the hell would you keep the milk warm or make the whale suckle, and suckle with what?


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

They've had days to do something. One phone call to the marine parks in the US and they would have had the information they needed. Also, a guy did a search on the net and found the recipe for a formula that would have been suitable to feed it. Their efforts are pathetic!!


----------



## spilota_variegata (Aug 21, 2008)

888lowndes888 said:


> Its wrong! That marine biologist bloke made up a teat and had 4 litres of milk ready to go feed him and got turned away by authorities. He had dairy milk and crushed up fish and stuff blended, authorities said it may be ahrmful to colin.... so is killing him. Why not just give him dairy milk and see what happens and if worse comes to worse euthanaese. They have done nothing to try and help this guy.:evil:



What's very frustrating is government bodies are so often tied up with bs beaurocray that they can no longer think outside of the box. A little sustenance surely must be better than none?? If a marine biologist suggested feeding from a teat, surely he/she must be better informed that some government twit. :evil:


----------



## spongebob (Aug 21, 2008)

To not do anything is I believe irresponsible. As a society Australia tries to help injuried/orphaned native wildlife. Why is a whale different? Attempts have been tried to reunite with a pod. That didnt work so the next line would be to try to nurse it. OK it's never been tried before but that does not mean it cant be done. If it prolongs the life but then it dies at least we (as a society) gave it a shot. IMO the worlds opinion of us we would be better viewed than letting it die or putting it down. A life, our self worth ,and how we are seen are all at stake.


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

spongebob....It has been done before in the U.S. They managed to nurse a baby whale and were eventually able to release the animal. They designed a number of different teats and offered them and the baby whale picked the one it wanted.

xander ....Cows milk is suitable and is the base of the formula that they can use to feed it.


----------



## kakariki (Aug 21, 2008)

Just another case of "Put it in the too hard basket". Its what the pollies do best. Way too much bureaucratic bs to get through and precious little commonsense. Once again we miss a chance of being leaders and settle for mediocrity.  Poor Colin, you should have been lost elswhere cos in OZ it's just too damned hard!


----------



## Danny.Boy (Aug 21, 2008)

Jewly said:


> They are going to put it down tonight.



if they can't come up with a way to save it that is.

personally I don't think they should euthenise it... I think if they aren't able to save it then it should be left alone. everyones always talking about letting nature take its path, so let it.

also can I just remind everybody that there are THOUSANDS of starving African children and bubs right now but you don't see people rushing to their rescue. I mean yeah fair enough the poor things starving to death but get real.... it's a whale.


----------



## xander (Aug 21, 2008)

OK so if this whale was to be reared it would cost over 2 million dollars, money better spent on buying land NOT TO BE CLEARED.It would need a pool 4 times the size of a olympic pool till it is 11 months old. Plus how is it going to learn to be wary of killer whales (their mothers teach them)or how to find food, or how to get to Antarctica? It mother abandoned it for a reason.It is very sad, but unfortunately it happens.


----------



## junglepython2 (Aug 21, 2008)

Let it die a natural death no need to give the Japanese any headlines. 

Plus why waste all that money trying to save an animal that will most likely die anyway, it could be better spent elsewhere.


----------



## hornet (Aug 21, 2008)

xander said:


> OK so if this whale was to be reared it would cost over 2 million dollars, money better spent on buying land NOT TO BE CLEARED.It would need a pool 4 times the size of a olympic pool till it is 11 months old. Plus how is it going to learn to be wary of killer whales (their mothers teach them)or how to find food, or how to get to Antarctica? It mother abandoned it for a reason.It is very sad, but unfortunately it happens.



with you there, i think it would be 100% fruitless to try and rear it in captivity, its never going to have the skills to survive in the wild and i dont think they are really suitable to be kept in captivity.


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Aug 21, 2008)

Why does it need a 4 x olympic pool enclosure? why not just net off an area the size of 4 olympic pools? With a daily patrol of the nets perimeter any marine life that may get caught can be free'd. Also with a whale being so bit the net mesh could be very co**** to allow almost all marine life to swim in and out without being tangeled. As far as migration and that goes im sure its just instinct and when it is older im sure it will join up with another pod that would show it where to go etc etc.. As far as it not having skills for the wild etc etc its all instinct is it not?? a hand reared reptile could fend for itself in the wild running off pure instinct. Its been done successfully in America so why wouldn't it work?


----------



## pythons73 (Aug 21, 2008)

What are ppl at Seaworld feeding their whales,with all the experience and technology these days,why cant the authorities atleast try 2 rescue the whale,maybe take it 2 seaworld where they are a few ppl up there that no what their doing,The majority of the world hate the Japanese 4 killing for research,so why cant they atleast try 2 help the poor little whale.Cheers


----------



## Boney (Aug 21, 2008)

the best thing for colin is to be shot then , send him to skulls unlimited and get him bone articulated . . so people can see him everyday . poor bugger


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Aug 21, 2008)

Just seen a news update that colin the whale is getting torn apart by a large shark. It was real messy with one bite taking part of colins face off.


----------



## Danny.Boy (Aug 21, 2008)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Just seen a news update that colin the whale is getting torn apart by a large shark. It was real messy with one bite taking part of colins face off.



link news article or it didn't happen.


----------



## Jewly (Aug 21, 2008)

Danny.Boy said:


> Also can I just remind everybody that there are THOUSANDS of starving African children and bubs right now but you don't see people rushing to their rescue. I mean yeah fair enough the poor things starving to death but get real.... it's a whale.


 
There might be starving people in the world, but they are not Australia's responsibility. This whale is. A lot of the countries that have starving people have very wealthy governments and they don't care about their own people. I believe in charity begins at home. It might cost $2 million dollars to save the poor thing, but I'm sure the Australian government give away 10 times that amount of OUR tax money to other countries all the time.


----------



## Danny.Boy (Aug 21, 2008)

it's the general carelessness of humans that annoys me the most. I'd really just like to see equality to be honest.


----------



## inthegrass (Aug 21, 2008)

where are the japs when you need them?.
dr karl microsleep stated on tv this morning, why all thi fuss over 1 whale when about 5,000 children die everyday around the world.
cheers


----------



## caustichumor (Aug 21, 2008)

They would not just decide to kill this headlining animal on a whim, The decision to euthanise a baby whale would not be taken lightly, In the same position I think I would have made the same call..


----------



## Danny.Boy (Aug 21, 2008)

inthegrass said:


> why all thi fuss over 1 whale when about 5,000 children die everyday around the world.
> cheers




my thoughts exactly mate. that's what i was getting at in my initial post.


----------



## Boney (Aug 21, 2008)

maybe they could talk japan into taking this sick one in exchange for taking one less healthy one ,they wouldnt even need to harpon it they could just drag him straight on the boat.


----------



## pythonmum (Aug 21, 2008)

Animals die in the wild. Young animals die more often. This is sad for us to see, but it is natural. We get extra sentimental about whales and dolphins, but if it wasn't in Sydney Harbour (or another population centre) we wouldn't know or care. The resources it would have taken to care for the whale (which should have been done right away if they were to attempt it) are better spent on other efforts which have a better chance of succeeding. Cleaning up marine rubbish would be more helpful to the ecosystem.


----------



## Nekhbet (Aug 21, 2008)

America raised a grey whale which took a permanent team of 30 professionals in order to maintain the water quality and feed it. This baby needs to learn to migrate and find tonnes of krill to keep it alive, what happens if it just keeps wanting a bottle, the ruddy things grow to 36 tonnes! The pain of being fed the wrong milk as well ... it would make his intestines twist in pain especially after starvation.

If the mother has rejected it there is a good reason for it. People are procrastinating in the hope it just drops dead and it doesnt look bad in the eyes of whaling nations to put it to sleep.

Better of shot by us then left to die starving or eaten alive by the great whites.


----------



## Hetty (Aug 21, 2008)

I think it's rather impractical to try raising it.

There are lots of hungry Hagfish out there.


----------



## CodeRed (Aug 21, 2008)

Is he dead yet?


----------



## Rocky (Aug 21, 2008)

Give him to the Japanese.


----------



## Hetty (Aug 21, 2008)

CodeRed said:


> Is he dead yet?



Hungry for some sushi? :lol:


----------



## FNQ_Snake (Aug 21, 2008)

Leave it, it starves to death. Kill it now it is more humane. 

Flip a coin greenies. Don't just want to save it because it is a whale.

Nothing more can be done.

Ever heard of the term flogging a dead horse?


----------



## krazedboarder (Aug 21, 2008)

protesy t white signs and banners call the murdering (deleted) what they truly are who are we to interfier with mother nature we are not smater or better and should not be making dissicions about someone elses life. did any one hear about the old couple that went over seas somewhere do get a drug that kills you painlessly they would have been put in jail if the drug had not worked luckily for them it did. so who is geting locked up for the murder of a baby whale dying whale dying old people who are we to decide if they live or die if i was the whale i would rather starve to death and die fighting than have some idiot give up for me. p.s i think keven rudd sux


----------



## cris (Aug 21, 2008)

Rocky said:


> Give him to the Japanese.



No!!! thats the worst idea i have ever heard :cry: :x:cry: What are you thinking?

SELL HIM TO THE JAPANESE


----------



## Rocky (Aug 21, 2008)

cris said:


> No!!! thats the worst idea i have ever heard :cry: :x:cry: What are you thinking?
> 
> SELL HIM TO THE JAPANESE





HAAHAHAHAHAHA Feed him to the homeless?
Sushi any one?


----------



## tommygun295 (Aug 21, 2008)

They have to put it down theres no other choice.Australia doesn't have the facilities or water to drain the tank everyday and refill it it been abandoned by its mother put it this way if he was in the wild would he survive no its only because he suckled onto a boat!


----------



## Australis (Aug 21, 2008)

I don't want my tax dollars wasted on a single whale that cant make its own way.
Way too much money is put into whales as it is - could be better spent on many
of the critically endangered land loving natives and save a species instead of
an individual.


----------



## Rocky (Aug 21, 2008)

tommygun295 said:


> They have to put it down theres no other choice.Australia doesn't have the facilities or water to drain the tank everyday and refill it it been abandoned by its mother put it this way if he was in the wild would he survive no its only because he suckled onto a boat!




Ok. So what if he doesn't survive in the ocean alone? What if he could? Why not let him have a chance?


----------



## 888lowndes888 (Aug 21, 2008)

Australis said:


> I don't want my tax dollars wasted on a single whale that cant make its own way.
> Way too much money is put into whales as it is - could be better spent on many
> of the critically endangered land loving natives and save a species instead of
> an individual.


 So instead your tax dollars will be spent on other great things like wars and Kevin Rudds many trips overseas.


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 21, 2008)

It's very sad, but attempting to save it would cost millions of dollars ($2,000,000 is a big underestimate), and the whale would still most likely die. The conservation budget is extremely tight, and that amount of money could be used to save multiple SPECIES, or the lives of many humans. It wouldn't be right to put it into one individual. It's quite sad, nature isn't always kind.


----------



## cracksinthepitch (Aug 21, 2008)

Its a very sad news report but this event probably happens all over the world weekly. Let nature take its course. I dont think that cows milk is suitable for a whale , sure try it why not, see if it works ,study it learn from it etc. What has become plainly obvious is that the bureaucrats havent got a clue and no one can make a decision to save themselves. 
Dear head honcho MAKE A DECISION and run with it. its not that hard is it. Whether you make the left or right decicion you will be critised by the opposing side ,so live with it,get on with it and make a Damn decision....


----------



## xander (Aug 21, 2008)

888lowndes888 said:


> Why does it need a 4 x olympic pool enclosure? why not just net off an area the size of 4 olympic pools? With a daily patrol of the nets perimeter any marine life that may get caught can be free'd. Also with a whale being so bit the net mesh could be very co**** to allow almost all marine life to swim in and out without being tangeled. As far as migration and that goes im sure its just instinct and when it is older im sure it will join up with another pod that would show it where to go etc etc.. As far as it not having skills for the wild etc etc its all instinct is it not?? a hand reared reptile could fend for itself in the wild running off pure instinct. Its been done successfully in America so why wouldn't it work?



A reptile is extremely different to a mammal. Reptilea are on their own from day dot and have a in built instinct.No point in comparing.Whales learn throughout their juvenille and teenage yaers what to eat, what to avoid and how to socialise. That Dugong that was handreared and released lasted not long at all and is now in permenant captivity because it did not have the teachings of its parent(s). Its more cruel to let this poor little whale suffer than to actually put it to sleep.


----------



## Australis (Aug 21, 2008)

888lowndes888 said:


> So instead your tax dollars will be spent on other great things like wars and Kevin Rudds many trips overseas.



Well it will be spent on war and PM travel regardless.

Big bucks on one whale is a complete waste - and will achieve nothing more than group hugs
amongst some bleeding hearts .. i actually like whales .. i would think it a waste if it was to be
spent on an individual reptile also.


----------



## Pineapplekitten (Aug 21, 2008)

its not about the teet and having milk now... if they feed it now they save it for an extra day but what about when it comes time to weaning it are they supposed to bring boat loads of krill for it to eat. its sad but it is nature. plus they need a mixture different stuff not just milk.

if they are willing to spends thousands of dollars on MAYBE saving a whale then that money could be well used somewhere else, maybe saving people..

its a beautiful whale but i agree that the mother abandoned it for a reason. they say mothers have abandoned calfs before cos it had lung disease or something. im waiting to see what the blood test says about that.

oh well thats my 2 cents worth.. i do wish he could be saved..


----------



## CodeRed (Aug 21, 2008)

At a street value of $2 per sushi roll Colin is worth about $600k. I say fatten him up and double the price.


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 21, 2008)

awwwwwwwww stop ya complaining now didnt you all see THE WHALE WHISPERER tonight?......its all good he reckons it wants to go back to the big ones and its got shoddy eye sight ,he should know he is a whale whisperer..................


----------



## spongebob (Aug 21, 2008)

Sdaji said:


> It's very sad, but attempting to save it would cost millions of dollars ($2,000,000 is a big underestimate), and the whale would still most likely die. The conservation budget is extremely tight, and that amount of money could be used to save multiple SPECIES, or the lives of many humans. It wouldn't be right to put it into one individual. It's quite sad, nature isn't always kind.



I would argue that the global negative publicity would be far costlier to the conservation movement. This is a golden opportunity to tap into the feel good factor. Set up a whale wet nurse fund and milk the sentimental $ for all it's worth. 

Then if it dies follow codered's train of thought and sell it to the Japanese as "fresh as" for scientific research and offset this individual against their quota. 

Excess funds then go towards conservsation

win win win?

or just let the bugger die and feel the wrath of the world with declining tourism etc


----------



## alex_c (Aug 21, 2008)

If he did end up being raised by human's how is he going to learn the thing's only a whale can teach him such as how to find food etc?


----------



## whiteyluvsrum (Aug 21, 2008)

they are killn it tonight.


----------



## Riley (Aug 21, 2008)

poor thing.. imo they should of put him yesterday or the day before, instead of making the poor little bugger starving, away from his mum! his mums probably in restaurant right now overseas..


----------



## SlothHead (Aug 21, 2008)

Good to see a lot of passion, keeps the moment alive.

But there are a couple of issues here which don’t appear to be surfacing. 

Firstly, to argue – leave it to its fate, the fact that the boundary of intervening in the natural world is being crossed is of significant importance. Certainly, by all means this boundary should be crossed in events where humans have caused the problem. But as far as I understand this is a case where the calf was abandoned or fell behind which is a common occurrence for whales born so far south of the nursing grounds. 

That being the case, as a complete natural event, if we then start to intervene here, are we venturing onto a slippery slope where we should be intervening in every other situation. For example, I was watching a doco last night about caribou; the mother of a calf was injured, fell behind the pack, and was killed by bears. The calf was left sitting by the (essentially eaten) body of the mother. Thus if we are intervening in the whale situation, then we should be intervening in the caribou situation. 

Secondly, which argues on the side of putting the animal down, is the argument of ending needless suffering. When the cost of ending the suffering does not adversely affect the natural balance then it would appear appropriate, which is a ‘natural’ emotional response to a species such as a whale. But again, it is a slippery slope and sets the precedent of ending suffering. So does this mean that if we see a lion about to attack and eat a wildebeest or whatever, and the wildebeest is certainly doomed, therefore should it be put down to stop the suffering that it is about to go through, knowing that it is not going to make it.

Economically, it is not feasible to save the animal at all. So that counts that case out all together. But lets just say for a second we could easily “fix” the colin problem and raise the whale. Disregarding the complexities of that, there is a pretty obvious issue. The fact that by artificially saving this animal we are taking a couple of tones out of the food chain which would otherwise be there.

It is surprising (well maybe not) to see people using words like, cruel and inhumane to describe a naturally occurring event. Ecosystems are like chemical reactions in that they develop a balance and direction all of their own and as you change part of it, you change every other part. 

Well by now, it may all be over, certainly a harsh situation, but a natural situation and its good see everyone’s ideas and opinions on these conundrums.


----------



## JasonL (Aug 21, 2008)

There putting it down????? I just filled the van with F26 and was about to head on over...... bugger..anyone need 500kg of baby formula?


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 21, 2008)

spongebob said:


> I would argue that the global negative publicity would be far costlier to the conservation movement. This is a golden opportunity to tap into the feel good factor. Set up a whale wet nurse fund and milk the sentimental $ for all it's worth.
> 
> Then if it dies follow codered's train of thought and sell it to the Japanese as "fresh as" for scientific research and offset this individual against their quota.
> 
> ...



If it dies, the Japanese aren't going to buy it. Why would they buy one when they can harpoon one? If it dies of ill health it's not going to be good to eat and we all know they aren't actually doing any research (quite amusingly, they've so far produced all of zero scientific papers from all these decades of research - someone correct me if I'm wrong, please). Even if they did buy it for ten times what it is worth in meat (which they sure as heck wouldn't), the cost of building an enclosure for it would be far, far more.

Does anyone remember the movie "Free Willy"? A massive real life zillion dollar campaign was made to save the whale from that movie, and that involved building it a net type enclosure as some people here have suggested. Someone might want to google what that one cost, then take inflation into account. I think you'll find $2,000,000 would buy you the hinge for the cage door if you were lucky.

Putting many millions of dollars into a single whale might work as a publicity stunt, but what would be gained? People in Australia would appreciate whales, but they already do. The Japanese are never going to change their 'if it lives underwater, eat it' mentality, and this won't do squat. Putting millions upon millions of dollars into a project isn't trivial, any as much as we'd all love to save this whale, we have to think about all of the other animals, people, habitat, etc which we'd also like to save. Conservation is not a lucrative business, but it is something which needs to be looked at as seriously as possible so we can do as much good as possible. This project would take many times what our government is already putting into the entire endangered species budget. Sure, it'd be nice if the government would do more, but as the global economy is based on military budgets etc. It's very sad, and of course I wish money was allocated in a better way.


----------



## spongebob (Aug 21, 2008)

I'll take it for the roach colony


----------



## Ramsayi (Aug 21, 2008)

Colin is a really stupid name for a whale.Apologies to all the Colins on the forum lol.


----------



## JasonL (Aug 21, 2008)

What ever happened to the golden rule when dealing with wild animals ie; let nature take it course, Oh that's right, the media got involved and gave it a name.....make me feel warm and fuzzy..


----------



## Helikaon (Aug 21, 2008)

JasonL said:


> What ever happened to the golden rule when dealing with wild animals ie; let nature take it course, Oh that's right, the media got involved and gave it a name.....make me feel warm and fuzzy..




lol thats another golden rule never name anything or it ends up getting euthed, thats my motto with wildlife


RIP miss Queeny-wattle and danny plover................................dont laugh miss b your already going to hell


----------



## spongebob (Aug 21, 2008)

Still a great opportunity missed. Conservation needs more spin doctors. 

have YOU saved a Colin today?


----------



## CodeRed (Aug 21, 2008)

spongebob said:


> I'll take it for the roach colony


 
You're on fire tonight Bob 

I really like your idea of fleecing all the bleeding hearts whilst the emotions are strong, then when Colin finally bites the bullet, dice him up and wrap him in seaweed. We could even erect a floating monument to Colin and charge $5 for people to go and visit it.

The left over bits can feed the roach colony for a few years at least 

Only problem I see is where are you going to get enough ice to keep 2 tonnes of blubber from going off? Might have to duck down to the local servo and raid their ice machine.


----------



## JasonL (Aug 21, 2008)

All I know is the bream will be off the bite in the harbour for 6 months after a feed like that!


----------



## MAIA77 (Aug 21, 2008)

So Colin has done a runner, the "experts" can't locate him, they continue the search and will carry on at first light..

And there's an uproar about Japanese whaling? They are hunting Colin to euthanize him, please point out how that is different..

Let nature take its course, why are humankind so arrogant that they insist on "fixing" problems that are well and truly beyond their comprehension?


----------



## Noongato (Aug 21, 2008)

Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate, and yet nothing is done for animals when we do have the power and intelligence to do something to help.
The rules of natural selection is what makes animals so suitable for their environment and aids to their survival, humans have been interfering with human natural selection so much, that when a virus comes along, the whole human race will probably be wiped out in one go...
This is My opinion anyway. If we are going to change the mortality rate in humans as much as we do, we should offer something to help animals too.


----------



## inthegrass (Aug 21, 2008)

colin is in hiding, maybe he has met harold holt.

cheers


----------



## missllama (Aug 21, 2008)

i hope colin jumps out the water and swallows the person who is going to kill him

i think they should leave him be let nature take its co**** and have the humans stop interfering


----------



## Varanus1 (Aug 21, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate, and yet nothing is done for animals when we do have the power and intelligence to do something to help.
> The rules of natural selection is what makes animals so suitable for their environment and aids to their survival, humans have been interfering with human natural selection so much, that when a virus comes along, the whole human race will probably be wiped out in one go...
> This is My opinion anyway. If we are going to change the mortality rate in humans as much as we do, we should offer something to help animals too.



Well played....


----------



## Australis (Aug 21, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate, and yet nothing is done for animals when we do have the power and intelligence to do something to help.
> The rules of natural selection is what makes animals so suitable for their environment and aids to their survival, humans have been interfering with human natural selection so much, that when a virus comes along, the whole human race will probably be wiped out in one go...
> This is My opinion anyway. If we are going to change the mortality rate in humans as much as we do, we should offer something to help animals too.




I agree that the human species as a whole is trying to avoid traditional natural selection... and you seem
to think thats a bad thing... and that it might some how lead to us all being wiped out by some blockbuster
virus.

But im surprised you want to subject other species to this problem?


----------



## MAIA77 (Aug 21, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate, and yet nothing is done for animals when we do have the power and intelligence to do something to help.
> The rules of natural selection is what makes animals so suitable for their environment and aids to their survival, humans have been interfering with human natural selection so much, that when a virus comes along, the whole human race will probably be wiped out in one go...
> This is My opinion anyway. If we are going to change the mortality rate in humans as much as we do, we should offer something to help animals too.



Do humans euthanize severely deformed children? Do they "try" to help for 5 days and realising their incompetence choose to end their suffering? 

Human knowledge of the underwater world and it's vast idiosyncrasies is highly underdeveloped. Assuming that they can help this calf and then choosing to kill it when it fails to respond is just another example of human arrogance.


----------



## callith (Aug 21, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate, and yet nothing is done for animals when we do have the power and intelligence to do something to help.
> The rules of natural selection is what makes animals so suitable for their environment and aids to their survival, humans have been interfering with human natural selection so much, that when a virus comes along, the whole human race will probably be wiped out in one go...
> This is My opinion anyway. If we are going to change the mortality rate in humans as much as we do, we should offer something to help animals too.



well said


----------



## MAIA77 (Aug 21, 2008)

Australis said:


> I agree that the human species as a whole is trying to avoid traditional natural selection... and you seem
> to think thats a bad thing... and that it might some how lead to us all being wiped out by some blockbuster
> virus.
> 
> But im surprised you want to subject other species to this problem?



Couldn't agree more! Is the glass half full or half empty? The opinion of "why let the animal suffer, better allow it a fast, painless(?) death" versus "the animal may have a slim chance but a chance nonetheless, to live"


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 21, 2008)

I agree, they should get out and leave nature to it.


----------



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Aug 21, 2008)

I just heard on the news that Colin has been lost sight of, and an Aboriginal Whale Whisperer says that he could easily make quite good mileage if he dosnt get snapped up in his weakened state.


----------



## itbites (Aug 21, 2008)

I don't like the poor buggers chances ....It's sad, but not much can be done in these situations


----------



## PhilK (Aug 22, 2008)

The logistics of feeding the baby whale for the 11 month suckling period are HUGE. If you do your research you can see that it is impossible to rear this animal to survive.. It doesn't know whale language, it won't know how to hunt, where to migrate...

Those of you all for feeding it and rearing it - what happens when we wean it? What will it do then? Where will it go? What will it eat? What if it sees a whaling ship and expects a feed? It'll be doomed..

Nature is cruel - mama whale dumped her baby for a reason (unless she died). Feeding it would be impossible logistically and, at best, a 12 month stall. Let the poor little bubba go..Whether naturally or by human's hands.


----------



## PhilK (Aug 22, 2008)

midnightserval said:


> Funny how easy it is for some to turn their back on a animal cause its "natures way", but a human child that is severely deformed and would definately die on its own is a completely different story. Humans interfere with human lives, altering chances of survival to a almost 100% rate,


Sorry, but that's bollocks. Every day millions of children starve to death around the world. STARVE to death. Where's the daily news update and public outcry on that?


----------



## Joseph (Aug 22, 2008)

There was talk of a few animal rights workers along with a few sponsors to purchase a dissused Navy fuel bladder which would be filled with a milk solution of some description and crushed/ground fish. They were going to attach it to a boat placed and manned permanately within the area in the hopes this calf would take to it and feed therefore standing a good chance of survival. The decision to destroy this animal is based on what?, a handful of people who assume they know what is best for the whale and have more than likely never even studied the species let alone had one in their vet surgery. Come on people, we put our hard earnt dollars into saving endangered species from all over the world and did we not, only a few months ago kick up a fuss over the Japanese whaling in our Aussie waters? Somewhat two faced if you ask me. Give saving this animal a shot, try to save it, its in our waters or should we just kill it because a National Parks and Wildlife spokes person along with a vet said it is best for the animal? They must be right because they work for the government and the other is a qualified vet, who are we to say what is best. Oh well, such is the way. Just doesnt make sense to me as to why the easy way should be taken. :x


----------



## Joseph (Aug 22, 2008)

I am no greenie but just let me say, Lets keep killing every single animal we come across in the name of human consumption, human greed and human survival and of course human stupidity so that in the end all we will have left to hunt is ourselves. Snare a human, harpoon a swimmer or shoot a bush walker. Really people.........who are we to decide.


----------



## caustichumor (Aug 22, 2008)

The thing is Whales do not stay in one place, Their entire life is one long migration, This whale missed the boat so to speak, If it did manage to survive (under human care and guidance), it would more then likely be a very messed up individual (and a shipping hazzard to boot.)
And please think of the hundreds of millions of innocent krill this animal would slaughter if grown to full size! someone has to care for the krill!
A lot of people seem to be confusing cruelty for compasion!


----------



## jas468 (Aug 22, 2008)

Bronwyn Bishop was down there having a look.


She could have helped young Colin and popped an udder out.


----------



## caustichumor (Aug 22, 2008)

I think it would prefer the euthanasia...


----------



## melgalea (Aug 22, 2008)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/21/2342975.htm?section=australia
found this link if anyone is interested, there is a video there as well.
i think its a really sad thing what has happened. and i thought that with all the research out there that they could have provided something a little more for this poor baby whale.


----------



## Smellie (Aug 22, 2008)

PhilK said:


> Sorry, but that's bollocks. Every day millions of children starve to death around the world. STARVE to death. Where's the daily news update and public outcry on that?


 
I agree but that's on such a large scale that doing that sort of thing is going to take time. This is happening right here, and it's one whale, and it angers me that the authorites didn't even let those who were trying to help, to help. So many people had ideas, and I that we could have tried a couple. Yes the feeding of one calf is huge, but giving it something, as small as it is, is better then giving it nothing at all. Hell I'm thinking of going down there myself and doing something about it.

No one can honestly say that if you knew there was a starving whale, a starving person, a starving snake, a dog, anything, and you knew that there was some chance of saving it, as big or small as the chance may be, that you wouldn't at least to TRY and feed it, or care for it, rather then just saying that there's 0 hope of doing anything, we'll just put it out of it's misery now. Because I'm sorry if you think letting it die, or putting it down before even trying to feed it is the right thing to do, you're a moron. 

That's my take on the situation.


----------



## redbellybite (Aug 22, 2008)

This was one whale and its been 7 pages of awwwwww and what should we do???.....yet we hear about AUSTRALIAN children being abused in all sorts of manner and it doesnt even make page 1.......


----------



## caustichumor (Aug 22, 2008)

The person doing the deed will probably have to wear a balaclava for fear of a greenpeace revenge driveby....


----------



## m000x (Aug 22, 2008)

about the whole make a giant teat and use milk issue, 

They have been in contact with ocean world in america, they can't really 100% make up a baby formula if they use the wrong ingredients it will die.

eg.. If you feed baby Kangaroos on dairy milk, it will die right away, they didn't want this to happen to the calf.

green peace are just hippies. If they put up a stink about euthanizing the calf then they can foot the bill or try and rear it themselves.

I am sure that the marine biologists all agree that it's really the last option and it's taken them 5 days to come to this solution. The calf has had nothing to eat and it would be starving esp when it's supposed to consume 200 + Ltrs a day.


----------



## slim6y (Aug 22, 2008)

I think I've solved the problem....









Filled with milk....

Some suitable 'udder' contraption....

Problem solved....


----------



## FAY (Aug 22, 2008)

Maybe the mum abandoned the baby for a reason...animals can often sense if their offspring is sickly!
Maybe they can learn something from this and get something in place incase it happens again?


----------



## wokka (Aug 22, 2008)

After all the Japanese research I am sure they would know what to do. Reserch it!


----------



## RedEyeGirl (Aug 22, 2008)

if we are trying to save the whales from the Jap's then why can't we save poor,endangered,innocent Collin  they have got their chance and they let it get away.Just save him if they have the milk formula


----------



## PhilK (Aug 22, 2008)

Joseph said:


> There was talk of a few animal rights workers along with a few sponsors to purchase a dissused Navy fuel bladder which would be filled with a milk solution of some description and crushed/ground fish. They were going to attach it to a boat placed and manned permanately within the area in the hopes this calf would take to it and feed therefore standing a good chance of survival.



From what I heard, that bladder was going to be used to transport the whale...
Also, say they do (somehow) work out the whales' milk formula and successfully feed it for TWELVE MONTHS (somehow).. What then? It will just die after we wean it as it doesn't know language, social skills, hunting skills, etc etc



Joseph said:


> The decision to destroy this animal is based on what?, a handful of people who assume they know what is best for the whale and have more than likely never even studied the species let alone had one in their vet surgery.



What on earth are yo basing that outrageous statement on mate? How can you possibly say the environmental experts and the veterinarians involved haven't worked with whales? Do you know who they are? What surgeries they own? No, you don't.

Those 'handful of people who assume they know best for the whale' sure as hell know a lot more about it than you do mate, or anybody else on this forum with bleeding hearts.



Joseph said:


> Come on people, we put our hard earnt dollars into saving endangered species from all over the world and did we not, only a few months ago kick up a fuss over the Japanese whaling in our Aussie waters? Somewhat two faced if you ask me.



Not two faced at all. This is nature. This happened naturally. Also, a few pages back Sadji mentioned the prices and logistics of saving this guy... It's out of control.



Joseph said:


> They must be right because they work for the government and the other is a qualified vet


Essentially, yes. Though the National Parks and Wildlife guy doesn't ask Kevin Rudd what to say, he is advised by people who know what's up on the issue. Vets, marine biologists and the like. Just 'cause you think these guys don't know what they're on about doesn't mean they don't.


----------



## Fiona74 (Aug 22, 2008)

Apparently he has now been euthanased.


----------



## Rocky (Aug 22, 2008)

MAIA77 said:


> So Colin has done a runner, the "experts" can't locate him, they continue the search and will carry on at first light..
> 
> And there's an uproar about Japanese whaling? They are hunting Colin to euthanize him, please point out how that is different..
> 
> Let nature take its course, why are humankind so arrogant that they insist on "fixing" problems that are well and truly beyond their comprehension?



If they want to find him, Send in a Japanese "expert". Problem Solved. Mind you.. when they rest of the team catch up, he may be half eaten..


----------



## jessb (Aug 22, 2008)

MAIA77 said:


> Do humans euthanize severely deformed children? Do they "try" to help for 5 days and realising their incompetence choose to end their suffering?


 
In many cases if doctors can't help a child (or adult for that matter) then yes, they will absolutely remove a feeding tube, provide pain relief and allow them to die painlessly and without dragging it out, causing unnecessary suffering. And that is just in a developed country - deformed or disabled children throughout the world are frequently left to die either due to superstition and lack of education or inadequate medical facilities.

And to anyone who is suggesting that the millions it would have cost to rear this animal would be well spent, note that a research program to study rare (or even common) childhood diseases can be funded for several years for a million dollars. We are talking about hundreds or thousands of human children lives which could be saved or improved over one sick abandoned animal. Put it into perspective please.

Note that IF something could be done to give this whale a good chance, then it would have been done. There was simply not the possibility of saving this whale, so the kindest way to alleviate his suffering was to euthanase him. Note the euthanasia is illegal in Australia for humans, otherwise it would certainly happen more often in comparable situations.

NB Joseph, the "handful of experts" you are talking about include NPWS, ORCCA, marine biologists and the RSPCA . They are hardly a bunch of armchair experts (unlike most of the people posting on these forums) If these people believe there is no hope for the whale, then what makes you and the bunch of idiots who keep suggesting to pop a teat on the bottom of a boat and pump out a krill milkshake, are more qualified to make that decision?

I would be very interested to see how much all the bleeding hearts who demanded that the whale be saved have donated to ORCCA or RSPCA over the last 5 years. Next to nothing I can guarantee.


----------



## slim6y (Aug 22, 2008)

Doctors helped this fellow (spending probably millions)







Ironically I linked to this story (on news.com) from reading about the euthanised Collin... He's dead now...

So my idea of a blow up whale filled with milk obviously went to waste...

Ok - my serious spin on this - The animal probably shouldn't have human interference, but that is what makes us so different to the rest of the world as humans - we actually have this capacity.

People like Bill Gates - he has several hundred billion dollars - I bet he could have saved the whale... It's a little sad though to think that enough money would solve almost any problem in the world... 

Anyhow... We're different as we have our family with us for 15 - 20 years (sometimes longer) - we're born and we can't walk... Not like four legged animals... We can't fend for ourselves at all for many years. 

If we abandoned a child - i would hope our pack instinct would be to care for it - which it is. But I will be interested to read what research comes from Collin and his abandonment.

RIP Collin.

Oh by the way... another koala got bashed and killed and had one of its legs removed.


----------



## gillsy (Aug 22, 2008)

Finally the right thing was done.

It should of been put down long before now, the poor thing was suffering all week.


----------



## jessb (Aug 22, 2008)

slim6y said:


> People like Bill Gates - he has several hundred billion dollars - I bet he could have saved the whale... It's a little sad though to think that enough money would solve almost any problem in the world...


 
To be fair, he does spend billions of dollars on efforts to eradicate AIDS and malaria in the developing world - he probably thinks saving millions of human lives is a wee bit more important than saving a single whale...


----------



## gillsy (Aug 22, 2008)

jessb said:


> To be fair, he does spend billions of dollars on efforts to eradicate AIDS and malaria in the developing world - he probably thinks saving millions of human lives is a wee bit more important than saving a single whale...


 
Exactly, the ignorance of people believe one whale is worth saving more than a whole species.

People blaming politicians, it was the vets that made the educated decision. 

People call them murderers are not worth even listening to, they haven't spent their whole lives looking after these animals helping to save and protect... I'm sure they didn't make an easy decision to euthanise it.

People need to be realists.

I would love to have it saved, but come on 2 hour feedings with up to 30 people holding a 1 tone + animal everytime lives in danger for 12 months. It would be 10 tonnes by the end of the time.

It wasn't worth the stress of both the people and the animal.


----------



## Trouble (Aug 22, 2008)

I just found this link: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24222707-661,00.html
Kinnda tells everyone that even the environment protective group said it was best to put the boy to sleep 
There was no possible way to keep up the feeding.

R.I.P Colin... No more suffering


----------



## Chris1 (Aug 22, 2008)

i guess i'm relieved hes been put down,...it was so sad watching the poor guy cruise around cutting himself up on boats that werent his mum.

as others have said even if he survived the first 12 months being fed he would have missed out of the lessons necessary to live anyway,...


----------



## slim6y (Aug 22, 2008)

A young fellow was walking along the beach one day... He was astounded to see millions of starfish all washed up on the shore. He couldn't believe his eyes. They must have been washed up there after the severe storm the bay had had the night before.

There were just millions of them everywhere.

As the young man progressed down the beach he saw another man picking up the starfish and throwing them back one by one. The beach was so full of starfish, it was as far as the eye could see.

The young man went up to this fellow throwing the starfish in the water and said:

"Do you really think you can save them all?"

The man answered:

"No, but I saved that one."


----------



## Jewly (Aug 22, 2008)

I hope all involved in this business feel ashamed of themselves. If they couldn't be bothered trying to help it, then why on earth wait so long to put the poor little guy out of his misery.

All their reasons for not helping it were just poor excuses cause all it would have taken was money to save the poor thing. Maybe Seaworld and the tourism companies that profit from these animals each year could have come forward with some donations to try and help save it.


----------



## Dipcdame (Aug 22, 2008)

What's to say that IF this poor creature WAS saved? Grew to a feasible size and was set free, after multi-millions of dollars spent on it,. that it wouldn't be harpooned the very next day by the Japanese???? Now THAT would be a bummer!!!!!!!

My heart weeps for Colin, and his plight and suffering, wishing that he would survive, but the head is saying that the practical thing would be to either leave nature to take it's course, or end it's suffering and euthanaise it, but then, we only feel strongly about this because we actually KNOW about it, and some bright spark chose to give him a name (big mistake!) so that people now feel they know him, and see him as a "pet" or something. This is an occurrence that takes place with many babies every year, they all wallow around for however long it takes, till it's ultimate demise eventually comes about. Some argue yes, BUT, we do know about this one, we only know about it because of the media....................... otherwise, we would be as blissfully ignorant as if it were a thousand miles out to sea!! I hate to see anything suffer, but it's nature, it happens!


----------



## Joseph (Aug 22, 2008)

Someone here said Nature is harsh but fair, leave it to die, (regarding the abandoned whale calf). Perhaps this same attitude should be adopted for the human race also. Just a theory.


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 22, 2008)

A baby bird was rejected from its nest in my back yard last night. I named her Suzy but I don't have the time or money to take care of her. Does anyone want to help?

There's a hundred baby spiders in a web on my window sill, they just hatched. Almost all will die. Does anyone want to adopt them?

There's about a zillion baby spiders in your own house which die every year, not to mention about a thousands, maybe millions of times more baby reptiles than there are humans in Australia which die in the wild in our country every year. Not to mention the mammals, fish, insects, frogs... aren't you going to do something about it? You're all inhuman! Why is nothing being done? Why does suffering continue?


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 22, 2008)

Joseph said:


> Someone here said Nature is harsh but fair, leave it to die, (regarding the abandoned whale calf). Perhaps this same attitude should be adopted for the human race also. Just a theory.



Isn't that what happens? Whales generally do what they can to look after their pod, but if one is left behind it dies. People generally look after their families, but sometimes this can't or doesn't happen for some reason, and the aliens don't come down to look after us either. If no human helps an abandoned human baby, it's almost certainly not going to live. Humans help more animals of other species than any other species does.


----------



## Brother (Aug 22, 2008)

Just think if we forget about the human race altogether we could use all the money we are curently wasting on humans to save all the animals in the world. 

Just think of it this way lets say that the money was found do you think that it should go to save one whale or into research to save the species?

Also the references to children. Lets say by the majic of a higher being that you could sacrafice the life of even one child (let alone millions) to save this guys life would anyone on here make that choice? Cause that is really what the issue is here.

I feel bad for the whale but thats life.


----------



## gillsy (Aug 22, 2008)

Again I agree with Sdaji, this is getting sad.


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 22, 2008)

Brother said:


> Just think if we forget about the human race altogether we could use all the money we are curently wasting on humans to save all the animals in the world.
> 
> Just think of it this way lets say that the money was found do you think that it should go to save one whale or into research to save the species?
> 
> ...



Of course, if anyone had to look into a starving child's eyes and say "I'm sorry, but we're not going to feed you, we're going to let you starve to death because we want to feed a whale which is going to die anyway" they wouldn't be able to. Can anyone honestly tell me they could do that? Imagine having to do that to _thousands_ of children, all for one whale which was going to die anyway! Yet somehow, people who think the whale should be left to nature are accused of being heartless.

People are getting upset because they say "One animal's life is of unmeasurable value" or something similar, yet they'll turn around and enjoy their lamb chops for dinner. Poor little lamby! I hope you feel ashamed of yourselves!


----------



## Sdaji (Aug 22, 2008)

gillsy said:


> Again I agree with Sdaji, this is getting sad.



Cry me a river or get over me :lol:


----------

