# S.I.M. Incubation method!



## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 26, 2009)

We are excited to anounce that we are the sole distributor of the *S.I.M.* Incubation Container by Squamata Concepts in Australia!!! 

The *S.I.M*. stands for Suspension Incubation Method relating to how the eggs are incubated on a grid off the substrate. This prohibits direct contact with a wet substrate and allows approximately 100% gas exchange between the container environment and the egg membrane.

Eggs incubated buried in dampened substrate are subjected to excess water which often results in drowned egg(s). Also in contrast to this, too little water or humidity results in egg dessication.​ 



 
Eggs incubated in the S.I.M. are surrounded top, bottom and sides by air. The steady humidity and (possibly) better Oxygen absorption in these containers allows neonates to develop faster resulting in shortened incubation times. 

Clutches incubated in this container have all hatched earlier than when buried in Perlite at same temperature. All neonates hatched fully developed without egg yolks. 

The triangular bars that you see on top of the grid are the eggs stabilizer bars. The function of these bars is to keep eggs from rolling or being uprooted by clutch mates and they arefully adjustable to fit just about any egg size.

As you can see the SIM incubation containers are crystal clear. The idea behind them being so clearis so the eggs can be visually monitored without having to guess. 

The grid is designed to keep hatchlings from entering the substrate chamber. For keepers who
incubate over water, this feature ensures hatchlings are safe. 

The lid is soft TPU that fits the container base without being difficult to remove and upset the contents.
We suggest venting the lid by adding a few small holes to avoid an air tight situation. 

Each container is 20.32cm L x 17.14cm W x 11.00cm H. I fit 9 carpet python eggs per container with ample air circulation.

A larger size is currently being developed.The larger size will have the following dimensions 30.48cm L x 20.32cm W x 15.24cm H. 

I'm sure there are some of you that will say "I can make that myself", the truth is why would you want to, if they are already priced right?

These containers will be landing in Australia in about a month or less. Pre-orders will get $5 of the retail price of $35.

Best Regards

Nicole and Chris Cronin



 



 _Varanus tristis _hatching.


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## dottyback (Sep 26, 2009)

hey Niccy- i know i asked for 6 of them but i will get the 10. Cant wait to try them!


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## moreliainsanity (Sep 26, 2009)

Hi nicky,

Will pm you ones we sort out how many will be ordering, excellent product for sure and a must for amateur and experienced breeders.

Leigh


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## FAY (Sep 26, 2009)

Does this water method suit all pythons???
BHP's?


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## sevrum (Sep 26, 2009)

can they be used if the eggs are in a clump?


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## slacker (Sep 26, 2009)

GARTHNFAY said:


> Does this water method suit all pythons???
> BHP's?



boa on here incubated womas using the water method last season with no probs. I'm sure others have too.

As for bhp eggs fitting into them, that could well be a different matter...

A friend of mine actually linked me to photos of these the other day. They look great. Unfortunately for me, I expect most of our eggs will already be out and in the incubator by the time you land them.


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## BenReyn (Sep 26, 2009)

That's an awesome product.
Can imagine the importers' making a killing
Ben.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2009)

It's not about making a killing. This product will improve anybodys chances to hatch eggs succesfully. It makes hatching reptile eggs easy. They can also be used as a container to keep hatchling green pythons in.


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## chondrogreen (Sep 27, 2009)

What if the eggs are clumped together?
Can you turn the grid over so the stabilizers are faced downward?

Also how much condensation would drop from the lids onto eggs?
I can see mould issues occurring if not aired out frequently.


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## pythons73 (Sep 27, 2009)

So by look of it,they can be used either with Perlite,vermiculite or even the water method.It looks pretty basic BUT a wonderful design,especially with the grooves so the eggs dont roll..As already mentioned,what about if the eggs are clumped,not all notice the eggs till its too late to seperate...


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2009)

I have never torn an egg from seperating a clutch. As long as you roll them gently to pry them apart. Droplets don't form on the lid. Why would this container need to be aired more? And fungal problems occur where the vermiculite is contaminted from the start. The rails on the grid just clip into the grid and can be removed.


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## chondrogreen (Sep 27, 2009)

Using 100% water as a substrate would create more condensation then moist vermiculite or perlite etc wouldn't it? All incubating containers have condensation, thats just what happens when you heat moisture in a contained enviornment. Being a flat top I would expect it to form on the lid & drip for that reason concaved dome lids would be better in my opinion as the condensation would run down the sides of the walls back into the holding water rather then drip onto the eggs. The design is great in theory but can be improved, however even simple maintenance will overcome the above issues, and this is why I would be inclined to air out regularly & help discipate condensation as well as add fresh oxygen & decrease risk of mould from wet eggs. JMO though...

Have you actually used these yourself? 
Or are you just relying on what the supplier has reported to you?


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## FAY (Sep 27, 2009)

Where abouts are you Nicole??

How much approx would postage be etc????


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2009)

I have an incubator full of them and will only be using them from now on I have clutches of albino carpets in them. So to answer your question, yes I know what I am talking about.


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## ravan (Sep 27, 2009)

these are quite intriguing!
but i have nothing to put in them yet 
so will investigate more when the time comes


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 27, 2009)

Just thought i would add some photos of the unit in action. It looks misty in the tub with the amount of moisture in the air. As i said small amount of condensation on lid but no dripping. There is condensation on the sides of the tub but this just runs back into the reservoir.








Carpet python eggs.




Bearded dragon eggs.


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## GreggMadden (Sep 28, 2009)

Hello everyone,
My name is Gregg Madden... I am the co-designer of this product...

I just want to say how nice it is to see all of your comments and how nice it is to see how Nicole is putting the containers to use... The set up looks GREAT guys...

I saw a few folks asking about clumped clutches...

The triangular egg stabilization bars are fully adjustable and removable... So if you are not able or unwilling to separate eggs that are clumped, you can just remove the bars and put the clump directly on the grid...

Gregg Madden


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## Ramsayi (Sep 28, 2009)

GreggMadden said:


> Hello everyone,
> My name is Gregg Madden... I am the co-designer of this product...
> 
> I just want to say how nice it is to see all of your comments and how nice it is to see how Nicole is putting the containers to use... The set up looks GREAT guys...
> ...



Unfortunately they are way too small for a clutch of carpet eggs.If you could make some that were a fair bit bigger though?


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## GreggMadden (Sep 28, 2009)

Ramsayi said:


> Unfortunately they are way too small for a clutch of carpet eggs.If you could make some that were a fair bit bigger though?


 
You are in luck... LOL... As Nicole Mentioned we are producing a larger container for python eggs...


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## MrBredli (Sep 28, 2009)

Awesome, when will that one be available? (The larger ones i mean.)


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 28, 2009)

Have these been trialled with large Monitor eggs, say Gouldii, Varius for example?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks for the input Greg. Those babies are at 95% humidity and holding their temp perfectly. Almost no condensation on lid. Only on the sides of the container. I did not even bother weighing the vermiculite, I added a low level of water and added vermiculite to suck up the water. So easy to use.


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## Jonlivingthelife (Sep 28, 2009)

I agree with Rams...way to small to even think of carpet eggs.I have been incubating no substrate method for many years now with a much cheaper larger container with great sucesss.And no need to risk to the eggs by having to sepperate them as well.Just my thoughts...


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2009)

Yes sure, that is exactly what it is. I was also a bit scheptical until i actually held one in my hand. I have bred many pythons in my life and I can with all honesty say this is the best container I have used. If you dont like it then dont buy it. Keep measuring out vermiculite to water ratios, and keep cutting up egg crates if that is what you want to spend your time on. This product is worth every cent the convenience.


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## GreggMadden (Sep 28, 2009)

Ummmm Actually I am from Squamata Concepts... I am the co-designer and co-producer of the product... And we are only exporting the product to Nicole as she is our sole distributer in Australia...

Any other bright comments you want to add???


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## Freemason2250 (Sep 28, 2009)

GreggMadden said:


> Ummmm Actually I am from Squamata Concepts... I am the co-designer and co-producer of the product... And we are only exporting the product to Nicole as she is our sole distributer...
> 
> Any other bright comments you want to add???



So your saying that you haven't sent at least 10 units of this product to NSW Australia?
Really off to a good start buddy:lol: oh I notice you haven't mentioned their tendancy to turn from crystal clear to dirty yellow either


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## GreggMadden (Sep 28, 2009)

Freemason2250 said:


> So your saying that you haven't sent at least 10 units of this product to NSW Australia?
> Really off to a good start buddy:lol: oh I notice you haven't mentioned their tendancy to turn from crystal clear to dirty yellow either


 
Ummmm No, the only one who has this product in Australia is Nicole... As I said, she is our sole distributer... No one has gotten any SIMs from us in Australia....

Being that you know so much about our product, why not tell everyone why you THINK you know that the color goes from crystal clear to dirty yellow...:lol:


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## Jonlivingthelife (Sep 28, 2009)

Omg..wow why so on the defensive ??touchy touchy :lol: Who needs to mess with vermiculite ratios in no substrate method??Not me !!and I like the fact I use clean egg crate every time..not resused stuff from previous season.FACT...there are alternatives to your SIM tub what work just as well and are better for large clutches without the cost.Sheesh  chill people im so sorry for having an oppinion NOT:lol:


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2009)

Then stick with what you know. I dont want to change your mind about how good your technique is. This product is aimed at the newbie that does not know how to mix vermiculite. It gives them as good a chance of hatching reptiles as anybody else. I just put these in the dishwasher after the season and they are ready to go for the next season. If i can save time by using these units then its worth every penny to me.


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## Owzi (Sep 28, 2009)

I think its good to see these sort of products becoming easier for Aussies to pick up & I look forward to checking them out.

As for the no substraight method, I used it for the first time last year with a clutch of Spotted Python eggs and a clutch of Black Headed Python eggs and I had 100% hatch rate after a couple of up and down years with vermiculite. So for people wondering how it goes for BHP's, I highly recommend it.


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## wranga (Sep 28, 2009)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Then stick with what you know. I dont want to change your mind about how good your technique is. This product is aimed at the newbie that does not know how to mix vermiculite. It gives them as good a chance of hatching reptiles as anybody else. I just put these in the dishwasher after the season and they are ready to go for the next season. If i can save time by using these units then its worth every penny to me.


not having ago at you or anyone over the technique used. but its really not hard to mix vermiculite. i believe if you cant mix it you should probably rethink if you should be breeding. for those that dont know how to mix vermiculite at a 50/50 ration. get yourself a good quality digital scale thats in 1gram incruments that has a zero option. sit you incubation container with the lid off on the scale and zero it, now add the amount of vermiculite that you want, take note of how much the vermiculite now weighs, now zero container with vermiculite, now add the same weight of water as the vermiculite weighed, now mix vermiculite and water till all water is absorbed. that wasnt hard was it? by the way ill be trying the water only method next season. best of luck to all that are breeding this season


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## yommy (Sep 28, 2009)

they look the goods and will probably place an order. 
A possible domed or cured lid would top off a excellent design. 
I reckon you'll have alot of success with these


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## AUSGECKO (Sep 28, 2009)

I Understand the "If you don`t like it then Don`t buy it" comment and im not having a dig at all but... It does seem a bit expensive, it looks like a $20 product to me but im sure you will sell plenty and im even considering trying one or two.
Why do you add vermiculite into the bottom of it, it kinda defeats the purpose doesn`t it? or am i overlooking something?


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## dottyback (Sep 28, 2009)

Hi Gregg, Its great to have you on board this forum with your excellent product. I have to appoligise about some of us 'aussies' We are no way near advanced in husbandry and breeding techniques like you in the States and some of us 'aussies' dont like change..

Its great to see a product that takes out the work and mathmatic's in incubating eggs..

Quality digital scales cost money...batteries to run them cost money...vermicilite costs money.... your product is a once off purchase and water costs nothing! I can see its an option to use vermiculite in the bottom but its just that an option..

Rome was not built in a day so its great to hear that a bigger version is on its way for the Carpet breeders in Oz..

I look forward to getting the 10 i have ordered with Niccy.

Thank you for bieng herper!
cheers Ben




GreggMadden said:


> Hello everyone,
> My name is Gregg Madden... I am the co-designer of this product...
> 
> I just want to say how nice it is to see all of your comments and how nice it is to see how Nicole is putting the containers to use... The set up looks GREAT guys...
> ...


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## chondrogreen (Sep 28, 2009)

It's not that advanced dottyback.
People have used this method for years, yes even here in Australia.
Some have even used old fishtanks with aquarium heaters as their incubators.


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## AUSGECKO (Sep 28, 2009)

dottyback said:


> Hi Gregg, Its great to have you on board this forum with your excellent product. I have to appoligise about some of us 'aussies' We are no way near advanced in husbandry and breeding techniques like you in the States and some of us 'aussies' dont like change..


 
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Don`t appolagise for anyone else, just yourself. and wipe some of that brown stuff off your nose while your at it!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 28, 2009)

I added verm to the water because I can be clumsy when it comes to eggs. I just thought If i was clumsy enough to splash water on the grid then I dont want them to sit in it. I added a little water and topped it up with vermiculite. Once you hold this tub in your hand you will realise that its not a $20 tub. They are solid, I shipped 20 in via airmail and not one broke or cracked. The lid is made from a thick flexible plastic. This stops it from cracking when you put holes in it. 

Just added some fresh Bearded dragon eggs to some that has been in this container for 14 days.


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## dottyback (Sep 28, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> It's not that advanced dottyback.
> People have used this method for years, yes even here in Australia.
> Some have even used old fishtanks with aquarium heaters as their incubators.


 
On the contrary my dear friend! A fish tank is made to be used as a fish tank and a heater to make that fish tank suitable for keeping tropical fish in a cool climate! The method is old hat but its great to see a product that is made specifically for incubating eggs even down to the moveable grids to keep eggs in place. Ben


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## AUSGECKO (Sep 28, 2009)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> I added verm to the water because I can be clumsy when it comes to eggs. I just thought If i was clumsy enough to splash water on the grid then I dont want them to sit in it. I added a little water and topped it up with vermiculite. Once you hold this tub in your hand you will realise that its not a $20 tub. They are solid, I shipped 20 in via airmail and not one broke or cracked. The lid is made from a thick flexible plastic. This stops it from cracking when you put holes in it.


 O.K cool i get what you mean with the whole splashing thing, I`ll have to get a couple and have a look for myself when you get the larger ones in.
Cheers,
Chris


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## wranga (Sep 28, 2009)

dottyback said:


> Hi Gregg, Its great to have you on board this forum with your excellent product. I have to appoligise about some of us 'aussies' We are no way near advanced in husbandry and breeding techniques like you in the States and some of us 'aussies' dont like change..
> 
> Its great to see a product that takes out the work and mathmatic's in incubating eggs..
> 
> ...


i would of thought anyone thinking of breeding would have a quality scale. i use my scale to weigh my snakes, weigh their feeds, and also weigh vermiculite mix. my scale didnt cost alot, they run off 240v power as well as a lithium battery, that battery is good for 5years so i dont think ill be spending much on batteries. hope im not one of the some aussies that your appoligising for, id rather you didnt think you need to appoligise for other peoples opinions. the states maybe advanced in the way they do some things, but we could question them on why they choose to do what they do with our aussie snakes. ill leave my opinion there so you wont see the need to appoligise for me


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## jay76 (Sep 28, 2009)

There is no real difference between them and what some people are doing now with water incubation with less cost. My tubs cost about $14 to set up for water incubation and I can fit a full batch of carpet eggs in there. They are a great idea but not cost affective I think. It will be interesting to see the cost of the larger ones and I will give one a go if they are at the right price just to see what they are like.Just my thoughts Jarrod


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 29, 2009)

dpeica said:


> Do you people realise you're fighting about plastic boxes?


 
I totally agree mate. 

Nobody ever said this was a revolutionary product. It is like commercial rodent tubs - most people knock their own up using a bit of mouse wire and some tubs from Bunnings, but some of us like to use the "real" stuff. If you don't like it, don't buy it...and don't try and belittle somebodies product just because _you_ don't like it.


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## FAY (Sep 29, 2009)

I am closing this thread.
Like Jonno said, there are nice made especially plastic mouse and rat tubs out there or you can whack up your own. No different with this product. If you feel you can make your own cheaper then go ahead and do it.
There was no need for nasty comments.
But for the people who like the look of these then they are able to be purchased from this sponsor. It is entirely up to the buyer as no one is forcing you to buy the product.


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## FAY (Sep 29, 2009)

I have decided to open this, as some members would like more info on these tubs including myself.
Be warned..anymore nasty comments and there will be infractions.


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## Jungle_Freak (Sep 29, 2009)

The containers look like a good design ,
but a bit on the small side ? 
are there larger containers or only the one size ?


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## solar 17 (Sep 29, 2009)

*Water Incubation method*

*My only input into this thread is l have been using the water incubation principle for many years, and IMO it works perfectly fine...l incubate everything except GTP'S at 31.5 and every species takes the same amount of time [approx. 56 days...except macs]....what cracks me up is every year people on here and other sites argue grades of vermiculite and water %'s and ratios all over the shop .....and people who say this idea is new are not right either as the bird / poultry industry has been using this method for 30-40 years and most of them incubate at 37+ degrees...the other issue that makes me smile is "humidity" as there are [2] scales of humidity -----[wet bulb] & [dry bulb] which one do people talk in / about when they are debating humidity ?.....cheers [water 4 ever] solar 17 [Baden]*


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## carpetmuncher (Sep 29, 2009)

jay76 said:


> It will be interesting to see the cost of the larger ones and I will give one a go if they are at the right price just to see what they are like.Just my thoughts Jarrod


 


mate,mate,mate you keep high end animals and like showing them off, then you whinge about snake ranch's prices, now you whinge about a $30 plastic tub that you think should be 20 bucks. snap out of it.


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## Moreliaman (Sep 29, 2009)

Nice product.......Ive used this type of incubation for loads of species (snakes and lizards) and it works fine.......although i make mine ....because i enjoy making things that work just as well & im saving money in the process.....money that could be spent on other things needed that i cant make (like stats or heatmatts ).....Oh.....& im a tight fisted pommy !!. ;-)


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## Serpentes (Sep 29, 2009)

solar 17 said:


> *what cracks me up is every year people on here and other sites argue grades of vermiculite and water %'s and ratios all over the shop ...the other issue that makes me smile is "humidity" as there are [2] scales of humidity -----[wet bulb] & [dry bulb] which one do people talk in / about when they are debating humidity ?.....cheers [water 4 ever] solar 17 [Baden]*



What cracks me up is people who have no idea that *water potential* is what matters, not relative nor absolute humidity nor the substrate involved.

*Water potential* is the ability for water to cross from substrate to egg. It interacts with susbstate, egg type, temperature and humidity and is the critical measure for water untake across a semi-permeable membrane, such as eggshell. Fortunately Australian reptiles are a hardy buch, and we have hatching success over a variety of water potentials whilst all the while nit-picking about the size, depth and shape of our substrate. Buy two different brands of vermiculite and you'll have two different water potentials, guaranteed.

Get the temperature and water potential correct and you can incubate in sand, clay, moss, newspaper, compost, even on a bit of cement.

If you're real clever like Brian Barnett you can incubate split/broken eggs held up by strings in the air inside your incubator.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

I have also hatched eggs that i cut open 3 weeks prematurely. Not on purpose, my incubators temperatures fluctuated a lot for some unknown reason. One thing i can say is that i have always had dimpling in my eggs by now, but in these containers they are still holding their shape well. This is also my first season trying out these units. I am really liking what i am seeing so far.


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## Serpentes (Sep 29, 2009)

I get 100% success out of vermiculate over a very wide range of reptile species, although I tend to tweak the water potential for some. Rather than dimpling I usually get a pronounced swelling of the egg around stage 40, or a couple of days before hatching. I may get slight dimpling near hatching day but this is a response to the moving embryo or the eggshell losing intergrity. If I do get dimples during development I add a little more water to the incubation medium.


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## yommy (Sep 29, 2009)

CarpetPythons out of curiousity with the pics on pg2 what instrument have you got pertuding from the lids is it something for measuring temps/humidity??? Not seen these before...


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## Moreliaman (Sep 29, 2009)

Very true serp....alot of people get 100% from using vermiculite for alot of species......as we all know its a well proven material & has been used for decades as an incubation substrate.....ive used it for many years...along with perlite, moss & a whole host of other substrates with varying rates of success, i dont always use the same method for every specie & i dont use the suspension method every time....but it works well theres no denying it...........if anyone's never tried it...... give it a go !!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

Its a thermometer/ Hygrometer.


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## candycaine (Sep 29, 2009)

Well I like them, there very cleverly thought of well done. and about time something was produced for the purpose of reptile egg tubs. tubs are pretty exspencive as it is but they arn't proper incubation containers are they.

I was curious do you get mould or friut fly getting in to these tubs like ya do with normal tubs? if not then I'll be interested in a few in the next year.


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## GreggMadden (Sep 29, 2009)

candycaine said:


> I was curious do you get mould or friut fly getting in to these tubs like ya do with normal tubs? if not then I'll be interested in a few in the next year.


 
In all our testings we have had no fly issues...

We have a few people who are testing the SIM with certain species and a couple of thenm put mouldy eggs on it to see what happens... So far there has be no mould regrowth in all cases... However, we need to test more...


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## candycaine (Sep 29, 2009)

so do we order through you GreggMadden or Carpet python? what just PM in here or email. I'd be interested in the larger tubs when they are available.


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## GreggMadden (Sep 29, 2009)

You can order from Carpet python as Nicole is our Australian distributer...


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## FAY (Sep 29, 2009)

Correct me if I am wrong.
I am of the understanding that it doesn't matter what species of reptile eggs, whether they like drier conditions of whatever, this type of incubating with the humidity is suitable for all????


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## Crazy_Snake08 (Sep 29, 2009)

great concept...PM sent


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

Fay, I have bearded dragon eggs in there at the moment. Yes they are easy to hatch but they dont need nearly as much humidity as other species. Unfortunately i only keep Pythons that need to be incubated. I have had no issues with the beardy eggs and they look better than what they normally do on vermiculite. I am just amazed at the amount of humidity in the tub. Its almost like fog in there. Very little condensation on the lids as well. Greg has informed me that the grid is safe for hatchling of most species. I have heard from John (his business partner) that some chondro breeders have had issues with hatchlings drowning where they could get through the grid and not find their way back out of the water (in the water incubation technique). The holes in this grid is minute and hatchlings can not get through it.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT] *

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I thought i would add definitions for humidity as taken off the Australian governement website. I hope they dont mind. This will clarify what humidity we are talking about.[/FONT]*

*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Humidity Definitions[/FONT]*

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Humidity is essentially the number of water vapour molecules in the air, but there are many and varied ways of expressing it. All of these terms are used scientifically, but humidity figures provided for public use in newspapers are usually relative humidity.[/FONT]





[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]*Figure 2*
Change in amount of water vapour in saturated air with temperature.
The air's capacity for water vapour increases as air temperature increases.
Air with a temperature of 30°C can hold more than three times
as much water vapour as air at 10°C.[/SIZE][/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Absolute humidity *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Specific humidity*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The mass of water vapour per unit mass of air (including the water vapour). It is another measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Mixing ratio*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The mass of water vapour per unit mass of dry air (excluding the water vapour). Another measure of the actual water vapour of the air.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Vapour pressure*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The partial pressure of the water vapour. Yet another measure of the actual water vapour content of the air. (Air pressure is the sum of the partial pressures of the gases comprising the air.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Saturation*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The air is saturated with water vapour when it holds as much water vapour as it can at that temperature.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Saturated vapour pressure*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The water vapour pressure when the air is saturated.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Dew-point*
The temperature to which air must be cooled (at constant pressure and constant water vapour content) for saturation to occur.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Frost point*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
When the dew-point falls below freezing it is called the frost point.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Wet-bulb temperature *[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
In simple terms, the lowest temperature to which air can be cooled by evaporating water into it.[/FONT]

​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Relative humidity (RH)*[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
The ratio of the actual amount of water vapour in the air to the amount it could hold when saturated expressed as a percentage *OR* the ratio of the actual vapour pressure to the saturation vapour pressure expressed as a percentage.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The amount of water vapour the air can hold increases with temperature. Relative humidity therefore decreases with increasing temperature if the actual amount of water vapour stays the same.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]



[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]*Figure 3*
Relative humidity varies significantly when the temperature changes,
even when the actual amount of water vapour in the air remains the same.[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]

Temperature *________
*[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Relative Humidity[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] *_ _ _ _*[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]​[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Relative humidity[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] =

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The actual amount of water vapour in the air x 100%[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The amount of water vapour required to saturate the air at that temperature [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*OR*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The actual vapour pressure x 100%[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The saturated vapour pressure at that temperature[/SIZE][/FONT]​


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

So the way i understand it is that when we deal with incubation tubs we are dealing with Absolute Humidity.
*Absolute humidity *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]


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## Sdaji (Sep 29, 2009)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> So the way i understand it is that when we deal with incubation tubs we are dealing with Absolute Humidity.
> *Absolute humidity *[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
> [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The mass of water vapour in a unit volume of air. It is a measure of the actual water vapour content of the air.[/FONT]



If you keep the temperature and volume constant you should also have a fixed mass of air, so it might seem strange to think of it, but we are still measuring the relative humidity (which is why we give it as a percentage, and that value is still relative to the maximum amount it could take at that temperature). If it was absolute (the actual water content), we would report it in different units - mass (or mols) of water per mass/mols of air.

...not that it makes any difference to the tub, incubation methods, etc.

You have very nicely shown how difficult humidity is to understand, and I have been trying for three or four years now to get my head around it, with only limited success.


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## jay76 (Sep 29, 2009)

carpetmuncher said:


> mate,mate,mate you keep high end animals and like showing them off, then you whinge about snake ranch's prices, now you whinge about a $30 plastic tub that you think should be 20 bucks. snap out of it.



To start with what does posting photos of reptiles have anything to do with it. With the snakes ranch prices I think they are where they should be but my point is that 18 months ago the het darwins were $1200 dollars a pair, so I thought they would be cheaper than what they were this year. I got a pair off them and could not be happier with them. The service was great and they were easy to deal with. With the containers I think are a good idea and it is about time some one started to bring stuff like this in from overseas but it would cost me too much to set up with them. I Think they would sell great in pet shops, so if I was bringing them in from over seas I would be contacting the larger shops in australia and getting them to stock them. Cheers Jarrod


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## Serpentes (Sep 29, 2009)

Yes, we are talking about relative humidity when dealing with incubation, and at most other times. Absolute humidity is rarely used by laymen.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the input guys.


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## yommy (Sep 29, 2009)

So how do we order them?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 29, 2009)

I am currently trying to get a load in via airmail. There will be some coming in via sea freight in about a month. There should be a shopping cart available on our website within this week if you wanted to pay securely over the web. This will ensure that you are one of the first to obtain one of these units. I might just have to bite the bullet and pay for air freight so that these units can be around for the Australian public to try out in their incubators.


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## GreggMadden (Sep 29, 2009)

jay76 said:


> I think are a good idea and it is about time some one started to bring stuff like this in from overseas but it would cost me too much to set up with them.


 
Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...

As far as the question goes about different species of reptile eggs need different humidity requirements goes, the answer is very simple... You can control the amount of humidity in the container by adding more or less water to your substrate... Being that the eggs are not sitting in a substrate, eggs tend to be more forgiving of human error when it comes to ratios... These containers can also be vented as well...

As of right now, we have hatched reptile species with different requirements on a 50/50 water to perlite ratio by weight...

The thing is, this container allow the eggs to take the humidity in that they need, not what is being forced on them by being burried in a damp substrate... You will notice that the eggs surface stays dry while incubating in this container...


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## Christopher (Sep 29, 2009)

What about the underside of the eggs? Does condensation form on the undersurface in a similar fashion to how it forms on the lid? 
They look great btw and I'd probably spend the extra cash to avoid cutting egg crate etc.


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## jay76 (Sep 29, 2009)

GreggMadden said:


> Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...
> 
> As far as the question goes about different species of reptile eggs need different humidity requirements goes, the answer is very simple... You can control the amount of humidity in the container by adding more or less water to your substrate... Being that the eggs are not sitting in a substrate, eggs tend to be more forgiving of human error when it comes to ratios... These containers can also be vented as well...
> 
> ...




I get 100% now with spending under $15 and I use water now so I dont have to worry about my ratio. So my question is what other advantages do I get for my $15+ per tub.


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## BeJayz (Sep 30, 2009)

Hi Nicole & Chris
Do you still have the containers available? We are interested in purchasing 7x. What would the total cost be and what would the postage to Sydney NSW be? Also how is payment made?
Kind regards, Fiona


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Sep 30, 2009)

Bejays you can shoot me a pm and I'll try to get back to you. This product is really not a hard sell. You either see the value in it or you don't. Stick to your method if it will cost you too much to convert. I have converted and will never need to use anything else. I might just have to get some more.


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## Moreliaman (Oct 1, 2009)

GreggMadden said:


> Personally, I dont think a price can be put on better hatch rates and healthier neonates... Dropping a little more cash is worth it when you know you do not have to worry if your ratio is correct or if your eggs are going to get fuzzy... Thats my opinion...



Im not so sure about that mate... ive had eggs covered in mould & theyve hatched.....eggs attached to a dying one covered in mould & the healthy egg still hatches.....ive always been lead to believe a healthy egg shouldnt be affected by any mould & if the eggs healthy then the resulting neonate should be too................has anyone here ever lost a healthy clutch of eggs to mould ? i know i havent.

Personally I dont think throwing extra cash at a problem is always the best solution....and if i can make something that works just as well then why not.....i know some cant be bothered with the hassle of making things & for those people.......this product is perfect


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## pythons73 (Oct 1, 2009)

Breeders that have great sucess over the years wont fix a problem if they havent got one,however the newer people that havent breed any-many clutches WILL find this a extremely handle piece for incubating their eggs..Whats a xtra $10-$20 on something when it comes down to hatching those eggs,its priceless..This product seems like a valuable piece to have if you intend to breed...I for one would like to get a couple....MARK


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Oct 2, 2009)

Pre orders for these units are now over. They left the USA and might be here by mid next week. I was inundated with pm's and e-mails. I am sure all the members who pre-ordered these units will be extremely happy with the quality of them. I cant wait to get some feedback and have the chance to discuss breeding results. I will send an e-mail to all the the pre order customers as soon as I have them. 
Regards
PS: These units are back at the original price of $35 each again.


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## bigi (Oct 2, 2009)

i think they are a great idea, whether a person buys one or not, good luck to you all, which i sincerly mean.

What will be the price of the larger model 

and CARPETPYTHONS.COM could i please ask a question without sounding silly

i quote

We suggest venting the lid by adding a few small holes to avoid an air tight situation. 

and

Why would this container need to be aired more? 

isnt this a contradiction, and if you do suggest to add ventilation, why is it not manufactured with this option.

thanks and good luck


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## GreggMadden (Oct 5, 2009)

bigi said:


> i think they are a great idea, whether a person buys one or not, good luck to you all, which i sincerly mean.
> 
> What will be the price of the larger model
> 
> ...


 
It was not manufactured with vent holes because everyone has their own way do doing thing... Some people like holes in the lid, some like them on the sides and some do not use holes at all... We suggested that a couple of hole be added because that is what worked for us so far... Again we are still at a 100% hatch rate to date...

And thank you for your kind words about the product and throwing some good luck our way!!!


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## cheddah (Oct 8, 2010)

Tubs look good, atleast with flat lids you could probably stack them ontop of each other if need be.

Anyway just curious about how you've got your beardie eggs pictured on page 2 i think it was. Looks like you've moved them since they were laid? I was under the impression they had to be incubated in the same position in which they were laid, or is this false?


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 9, 2010)

cheddah said:


> Tubs look good, atleast with flat lids you could probably stack them ontop of each other if need be.
> 
> Anyway just curious about how you've got your beardie eggs pictured on page 2 i think it was. Looks like you've moved them since they were laid? I was under the impression they had to be incubated in the same position in which they were laid, or is this false?


 Yes they do have to stay the same way up, what makes you think she moved them?


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## cris (Oct 9, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> If you keep the temperature and volume constant you should also have a fixed mass of air, so it might seem strange to think of it, but we are still measuring the relative humidity (which is why we give it as a percentage, and that value is still relative to the maximum amount it could take at that temperature). If it was absolute (the actual water content), we would report it in different units - mass (or mols) of water per mass/mols of air.
> 
> ...not that it makes any difference to the tub, incubation methods, etc.
> 
> You have very nicely shown how difficult humidity is to understand, and I have been trying for three or four years now to get my head around it, with only limited success.


 
I agree, its pretty simple in relation to incubation relative humidity is all that matters, most frog eggs are an obvious exception i can think of. While its nice to understand stuff from a nerdy POV, there is no point trying to complicate incubation with all sorts of irrelevant issues and complexities.

PS. Just realised how old this thread is


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## cheddah (Oct 9, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Yes they do have to stay the same way up, what makes you think she moved them?


thats why I said looks like you've moved them since they were laid? 


CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Bearded dragon eggs.





CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Just added some fresh Bearded dragon eggs to some that has been in this container for 14 days.


Maybe thats how they were laid? But generally you get a few laid on angles etc, those look near laid out flat... I have also read somewhere in the past its ok to move them within a short time frame hence my curiosity


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 9, 2010)

What she has done is fine, you just shouldn't turn them up side down


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