# ripped off :-(



## misstrish (May 2, 2015)

So.......new to the reptile world and decided to trust someone and it failed big time. I paid for a pair of albino darwins and their transport. Meant to be flown from Rockhampton and they didn't show up. The whole"if its to good to be true" thing is real unfortunately:-(. 

Any idea what my chances of recovering my $ will be.......just asking incase someone else here has been in a similar situation.
Thanks


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## kingofnobbys (May 2, 2015)

Would be good to be able NAME AND SHAME crooks on places like this.

Talk to the local cops ( regarding fraud and theft of your money ) . Maybe ask the bank to stop the cheque too . 

I wouldn't warn them you are going to the law or the bank either. That way if the address they provided is genuine they'll get a nasty surprise when the cops knock at their door to ask them to accompany them to the knick to be charged and interogated. If you warn them they'll simply **** off and make themself's scarce.

You've probably done your money though.


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## hulloosenator (May 2, 2015)

How did you pay for it ???? 

If you paid by bank transfer , i am sure that if you go back to the bank and tell them that you have not received the goods , then you should get your money back . If they can link it to another bank account or credit / debit card then you should be ok. Do it ASAP - monday morning - go there personally as you will probably have to sign something.


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## misstrish (May 2, 2015)

I put the money directly into her account:-( I have the deposit slip and all the messages.


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## kingofnobbys (May 2, 2015)

misstrish said:


> I put the money directly into her account:-( I have the deposit slip and all the messages.



direct deposit is a very bad idea ....

Don't like your chances ever seeing your money again.


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## Vixen (May 2, 2015)

Have you tried contacting the seller, did the animals just not show up on the flight they were supposed to? Assuming it hasn't been over day, could they have just been held up somewhere and awaiting another flight?


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## misstrish (May 2, 2015)

Not answering any calls or texts.it was meant to be an hour flight


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## kingofnobbys (May 2, 2015)

misstrish said:


> Not answering any calls or texts.it was meant to be an hour flight


Sounds very dodgey to me. 

They've got your money and now have zero incentive to respond to you , and would likely tell you a load of BS and lies even if they did respond (just to fog you off).

I take it there were no details provided regarding shipper , tracking number so you have no way of checking if they ever really had the snakes or shipped them off to you.

Say goodbye your money.


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## butters (May 3, 2015)

Which airport were they going to? I notice you're in yarraman. Wild weather the last few days and lots of flights cancelled or delayed.


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## misstrish (May 3, 2015)

Kingaroy. I thought about that but there has been no message or phone call. She told me they were going on the plane and then nothing. I've tried calling and the phone is either turned off or no answer. She said to send my license details through and she would email hers and I haven't received an email. I would love for it all to just be a lack of communication and that the snakes are real and safe somewhere awaiting collection but its just seeming more unlikely the longer without contact.

- - - Updated - - -

She sent me a confirmation number and a flight number but didn't confirm with me what company she was using. She was talking about Qantas but they don't know anything about it.


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## butters (May 3, 2015)

What was the flight number? The letters in the front will tell you which carrier.


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## misstrish (May 3, 2015)

Confirmation number has weg in front and she didn't put any in front of the flight number.


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## FAY (May 3, 2015)

BE VERY VERY careful who you direct deposit to.......make sure you ask around. I did this many years ago and had to put a lot of money into an account in Vic...before I did I rang up the Herp shop as I had dealt with them and they assured me that the bloke was fine...had no problems. 14 years ago and we still have her ..


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## kitten_pheonix (May 3, 2015)

How did you find this seller? If it was on rdu and you emailed them and she replied than her ip address can be traced (by the police). I would be contacting them and your bank first thing Monday morning. But you aren't the first person to be had by a scam and won't be the last unfortunately. Major reason  I dont like interstate sales. Unless they have a large name in the hobby


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## arevenant (May 3, 2015)

Also when there are big ticket animals for sale at stupid prices, alarm bells should be ringing...


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## butters (May 3, 2015)

Where did you find them for sale?


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 4, 2015)

Unfortunately if a deal sounds like its too good to be true it normally is.
However you don't give details of the animals, prices, where they are from.

They may still arrive.
There are good and bad in all corners of the world, reading some of the historical threads on this site will tell you that. Do your due dilligence before sending someone you don't know a bucket full of cash.

I have personally purchased from interstate several times & all without any problems, (and all involving a significant amount of cash). By far the majority of people in the hobby are good, honest people. Don't let one bad experience tarnish your involvement.


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## Eamon (May 5, 2015)

Happened to me about 2 years ago.... I purchased an adult female Southern Angle Headed Dragon plus postage and well it never showed up..... I reported it to the cops and the bank but nothing could be done. Was stupid of me and I'm never buying online again.

Good luck though!


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## reptalica (May 5, 2015)

Well well well I understand first hand what the OP is going through. I started a thread on here not more than two years back when I had placed a wanted ad on RDU classifieds seeking Boyd's Forest Dragons. Some on here will remember when I got 4 x 2'd by Mark Raidal and his sidekick Jessica Bennett. These guys r as feral as feral can be.

I placed $600 into her bank account and nothing.

The fact is I know it was him and by posting his name hopefully it will deter others in dealing with him.

He is a known criminal and is known to frequent Raymond Terrace and has been as far as Kempsey.

Always wanted by the police.


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## Grogshla (May 7, 2015)

any news yet?


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## hulloosenator (May 7, 2015)

yeah .... come on , let us know how you are going with it. Did you contact the bank ?.... Did they arrive ????


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## A1SNAKETRADER (May 8, 2015)

Hey miss Trish. How did it all turn out. I pm,ed you about some names. can you reply. Pm is fine.


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## kingofnobbys (May 8, 2015)

These matters take time .... the cops move slow and the bank will likely be giving her the right royal run around (in the hope she gives up and goes away).


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## snakelady-viper (May 9, 2015)

Try contacting national parks if you have her reptile keepers number


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## kingofnobbys (May 9, 2015)

snakelady-viper said:


> Try contacting national parks if you have her reptile keepers number



I don't know if they will hand out such information to a member of the public , being private and privileged information. Worth a try but I wouldn't hold out any hope of their being forthcoming.

Likely the keeper's number is stolen or made up anyway as are any other details given by her.


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## apprenticegnome (May 9, 2015)

I'm wondering if the snakes have turned up as there has been no response to peoples questions on here. Hopefully all is good.


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## hulloosenator (May 10, 2015)

apprenticegnome said:


> I'm wondering if the snakes have turned up as there has been no response to peoples questions on here. Hopefully all is good.



or....... is misstrish the one doing the sending and wants to know what is going to happen to her ??? mmmmmm......????


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## Ramsayi (May 10, 2015)

I reckon they turned up and may be a bit embarrassed to update.


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## mje772003 (May 11, 2015)

Maybe I would suggest 1. payment by paypal as there are some safe guards using this method 2. if the animals were sent legitimately the sender should provide the reciever the AWB (airway bill) information to collect. Also do your research with buyers and get feedback from other customers of theirs before outlaying money.


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## treeofgreen (May 11, 2015)

mje772003 said:


> Maybe I would suggest 1. payment by paypal as there are some safe guards using this method 2. if the animals were sent legitimately the sender should provide the reciever the AWB (airway bill) information to collect. Also do your research with buyers and get feedback from other customers of theirs before outlaying money.



+1. I do PayPal or NOTHING. It is the safest way without using an escrow service.

Unless you know the seller personally, I would never direct deposit.


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## kingofnobbys (May 11, 2015)

I've only ever paid cash and at the time of collection from the breeder (if not at their home, at a location that suits, not everyone feels secure having total strangers come to their home and going inside seeing what they have - can't blame them for that).

I get to see the lizards, how they behave, and get to choose the one/s I want , and then give them the money and they hand over the lizard/s in suitable containers for the trip back to my place, and we exchange keeper's permit numbers and details (name, phone number and address) and all is good. No chance of being ripped off.

I doubt I'd ever buy a lizard by "mailorder" even from a very well know breeder or shop. Too much can go wrong and you pay extra (to have them delivered). 

I've not been in this hobby very long and am not in any clubs (not a joiner or interested in being in a herp club) so I don't know many other keepers personally.


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## Ramsayi (May 11, 2015)

I've purchased reptiles in the past sight unseen and payed for them via direct deposit and never had an issue.I ask around if the seller is unknown to me and it very easy to get feedback good or bad.The hobby is still very small in regards to word of mouth.


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## reptalica (May 12, 2015)

I put it to the moderators and site administration for us to have a separate section for buy and sell whereby any potential buyers who would like to verify the sellers' bona fides etc can mention there name on here and forum members can respond accordingly that way we have each others backs'. Sure it is not a fool proof system but it might go a long way to eradicating the scum that are happy to take people's money then take off.

I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that would like to have some sort of system in place whereby we can verify the seller's credentials or lack of before the transaction(s) take place.

Anyone with me on this??

Hopefully this will eliminate the Mark Raidal's of the society. :evil:


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## Pirateherpss (May 12, 2015)

I have driven 2 hours to meet with someone for a pickup. Sat there for 2 hours, never showed up. Never heard from them since. UGH!

Obviously not as bad as your case, but still so bloody frustrating. Good thing about buying and selling reptiles is that its a cash in hand transaction, so you know what you are getting. There are still dodgy people out there to look out for though. Freighting can be a very sketchy/ risky move. Sorry to hear about your issue :/. Couldn't imagine how bad that must feel.


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## kingofnobbys (May 12, 2015)

reptalica said:


> I put it to the moderators and site administration for us to have a separate section for buy and sell whereby any potential buyers who would like to verify the sellers' bona fides etc can mention there name on here and forum members can respond accordingly that way we have each others backs'. Sure it is not a fool proof system but it might go a long way to eradicating the scum that are happy to take people's money then take off.
> 
> I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that would like to have some sort of system in place whereby we can verify the seller's credentials or lack of before the transaction(s) take place.
> 
> ...


Very big money can be involved with some special / rare / difficult to breed animals so that's a very good idea and should apply to all transactions IMO (not just the expensive snakes and lizards, but the common cheap ones too , as well anything herp relates sold here)

Not all of us are in herp clubs or know anyone else who keeps reptiles, let alone breeds them, and with the price of some reptiles. The crooks and creeps take advantage of this situation to their benefit and I'd be very surprised if a lot of people are who ripped off are too embarrassed to go public about their bad experience.

It can be a very risky thing to deal with people who you don't know and have no way of really checking up on before deciding to part with your hard earnt $ for that critter or expensive gear you want to buy , it would be nice to be able to leave feedback similar to the accumulative feedback on Ebay say where you can read the feedback comments and if someone has a very good rating on their transactions (for all sorts of herp sales not just the lizards, snakes, etc.) Cuts both ways, sellers should be able give feedback on their customers too.

I imagine some of the sponsors and subscribers (who sell here) may not be terribly keen on the prospect if BAD FEEDBACK is made publicly visible to all here.


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## Dragon_77 (May 12, 2015)

I myself have been in the reptile hobby since 1982 and so far l have not once been ripped of by any scammer, most of the reptiles l have purchased from top reliable and trustworthy breeders Australia wide, have always delivered or freighted from interstate to me on time.

l do these days feel sorry for the newcomers to the hobby being ripped off, and having their time wasted when they want to sell their reptiles.


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## arevenant (May 13, 2015)

reptalica said:


> I put it to the moderators and site administration for us to have a separate section for buy and sell whereby any potential buyers who would like to verify the sellers' bona fides etc can mention there name on here and forum members can respond accordingly that way we have each others backs'. Sure it is not a fool proof system but it might go a long way to eradicating the scum that are happy to take people's money then take off.
> 
> I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that would like to have some sort of system in place whereby we can verify the seller's credentials or lack of before the transaction(s) take place.
> 
> ...



The only problem with this is the fact that active members in this forum are a mere fraction of herp buyers/sellers in this country.
I would say about 90% of people I have traded with have never even heard of this site, let alone are a member of a herp society or other club/forum whatever.
Most of Australia's keepers aren't really in any way active within the keeping community.

It's not a bad idea at all and I do agree with it entirely, I just see this forum as a pebble in the river of Australian Herping, and don't see it being a widely useful tool for this site.


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## reptalica (May 13, 2015)

Totally agree with the above. My idea I think I contemplated for not even 5 minutes so yes it does come with its limitations but having been a victim of being "ripped off" I'm trying to do everything within my power to limit such practices happening. 

Yes I was too trusting and hopefully I have learn't my lesson but because I live in this great country called Australia I thought a simple practice of purchasing a reptile wouldn't result in me being done out of $600.

Whilst I was furious and angry at the time, I'm merely disappointed nowadays that my trust in society has waned and have to take more secure measures in the future.


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## leighroyaus (May 14, 2015)

It not that people dont know about this site, its just the stigma that comes with this site.

Alot choose not to deal with it, and with the help of facebook these days you can advertise to a far wider audience, and you can actually visually check up on who you buy from and sell too

I do most of my sales now via facebook


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## FAY (May 15, 2015)

Be careful wherever you find your sales from...be it these forums or FB. Don't ever be under the illusion just because they are an Admin of a FB group that they are decent. Experience has taught me otherwise


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## kingofnobbys (May 15, 2015)

leighroyaus said:


> It not that people dont know about this site, its just the stigma that comes with this site.
> 
> Alot choose not to deal with it, and with the help of facebook these days you can advertise to a far wider audience, and you can actually visually check up on who you buy from and sell too
> 
> I do most of my sales now via facebook



Being new I'm unaware of past happenings here (on this site ???) - so I wasn't aware there is some stigma associated with this site .

Can someone please elaborate.

I've got to admit , I found my pet lizards via PetPages and Gumtree adverts and only looked locally (Lower Hunter/ Northern Lake Macquarie/ Newcastle) and my purchases went very smoothly (simply found the seller , called them , arranged to meet and view lizards , choose the ones I like/seem to like me, cash handed over, details and permit Nos exchanged and the little guys handed over in travel tubs, and we were done).


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## 5potted (May 15, 2015)

Just thought I'd add to this conversation having recently gone through a fraud/scam situation. The person used a fake licence so 1) don't trust the licence as proof of identification. 2) transferring money by direct deposit is considered a willing transfer regardless if the person is fake, the banks cannot retrieve this money- ALWAYS use paypal. 3) don't take no for an answer. After being rejected by 2 police stations, given their online fraud reporting system with no answer and many phone calls to his bank (able to be identified through the Bsb) and derm I finally found an officer to listen to the evidence I had gathered and the person has been caught and charged, now awaiting the court date.


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## reptalica (May 15, 2015)

Congrats 5potted on your tracking down and subsequent court appearance of another cretin. Well done. Great news and no doubt some of those scammers post on here.

If you're reading this I hope, in fact when you get caught I hope you get your right whack. 

Wastes of space. :evil:


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## kingofnobbys (May 15, 2015)

reptalica said:


> Congrats 5potted on your tracking down and subsequent court appearance of another cretin. Well done. Great news and no doubt some of those scammers post on here.
> 
> If you're reading this I hope, in fact when you get caught I hope you get your right whack.
> 
> Wastes of space. :evil:



Yep. Hope the magistrate hands down a monster fine and orders time behind bars to the mongrel. 

Bet he doesn't though and he gets off on some mental issue (seems if you can convince a shrink you have some kind of mental illness that becomes a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD and the crim doesn't even have the matter recorded on his police record).


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## A1SNAKETRADER (May 18, 2015)

Would be great if we could have a result regarding the original post as obviously a good number of members have taken the time to respond.


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## misstrish (Dec 21, 2017)

Hey, how awesome, took forever but she was ordered to pay restitution. She got a payment plan through sper, it's all paid off now and I'm just waiting for the money to be transferred to my account, 4-6 weeks and it'll all be over lol


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## Pauls_Pythons (Dec 21, 2017)

misstrish said:


> Hey, how awesome, took forever but she was ordered to pay restitution. She got a payment plan through sper, it's all paid off now and I'm just waiting for the money to be transferred to my account, 4-6 weeks and it'll all be over lol



All good that it has ended well but sad that your trust in this hobby has now been tarnished. You will likely never be the same trusting soul you were before this incident.
I just hope it hasn't had a lasting impact on your opinion of the many good people in the hobby.


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## misstrish (Dec 26, 2017)

Would probably be a bit easier if everyone used PayPal haha, easier to get it back that way.


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