# HELP! Getting our darwin python hatchling to feed.



## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Hi. we are having all sorts of problems getting our albino darwin python hatchling to feed. 
Got her just before xmas. at that point we were told she had sed twice and eaten 4 times.
since then she just won't feed. when ever we try she just runs away. 

we have tried day & night feedings. in smaller tubs to her permanent tank. we put her in a small round container with pinky and left her for 2 hours, she just went to sleep. If i lay the pinkie in her coils she just ignores it. we have worked on getting the food heat up to 40 deg. we have torn the head of the pinky for added scent. 
So far we had her force fed on the 6th Jan 3 x fresh born mice & 19th Feb she had pinky rat and 2 fresh born mice.
She still shows no interest to food.
On a side note, she is super placid. cant piss her off enough to strike and has never bitten. just chills.
Does anyone have a 100% fool proof way to get her to feed on her own? I would love to know it.
Cheers


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

Hatchling darwin pythons can easily take hopper or even weaner mice from birth, perhaps she isn't interested in pinkies.

whats her enclosure temps at? hot and cool side?


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Bl69aze said:


> Hatchling darwin pythons can easily take hopper or even weaner mice from birth, perhaps she isn't interested in pinkies.
> 
> whats her enclosure temps at? hot and cool side?


cuts of at 33 degs
holds at 32


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

heat mat? how are you measuring the temps?


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

Hey! What heat source do you use? Also don’t move to feed it’s pointless and stressful. Your best bet right now is setting up a simple tub set up with a heat mat under 1/4 of the tub on 34, use a simple substrate like paper towel and heaps of small hides, having a small python in a big enclosure can cause stress and it could be why it isn’t feeding, albino Darwin’s are also known for being picky so you may have to chose a different prey  


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Bl69aze said:


> heat mat? how are you measuring the temps?


heat mat at one end, heat lamp at same side through top. thermo is top corner
[doublepost=1552717116,1552717029][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> Hey! What heat source do you use? Also don’t move to feed it’s pointless and stressful. Your best bet right now is setting up a simple tub set up with a heat mat under 1/4 of the tub on 34, use a simple substrate like paper towel and heaps of small hides, having a small python in a big enclosure can cause stress and it could be why it isn’t feeding, albino Darwin’s are also known for being picky so you may have to chose a different prey
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


should we look at rats?
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Ian Gibbs said:


> heat mat at one end, heat lamp at same side through top. thermo is top corner
> [doublepost=1552717116,1552717029][/doublepost]
> should we look at rats?


Its hard to get suppliers around here. pet shops are about all that is available.


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

you only need 1 or the other  as long as they are reaching the desired temps

as for feed size, i'd recommend weaner/hopper mice

where do you live? im sure there are plenty of suppliers, that if arent local, would ship for a fraction of the cost of pet shops ;p


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Bl69aze said:


> you only need 1 or the other  as long as they are reaching the desired temps
> 
> as for feed size, i'd recommend weaner/hopper mice
> 
> where do you live? im sure there are plenty of suppliers, that if arent local, would ship for a fraction of the cost of pet shops ;p


Heat mat wasn't quite getting the tem up so we added the lamp. both cut off at 33.


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

What about your cold end? How are you reading temps 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

chloe.j.f said:


> What about your cold end? How are you reading temps
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


not  only have one thermo


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

You should get a thermometer gun, $12 on eBay. 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

chloe.j.f said:


> You should get a thermometer gun, $12 on eBay.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


sorry forgot I had gun. 31 at top 29 at water bowl


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

Can you send a picture of the full enclosure 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

chloe.j.f said:


> Can you send a picture of the full enclosure
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yellowtail (Mar 16, 2019)

Unfortunately the situation is now complicated by the force feeding and mix of mice/rats, it does not know what food tastes or smells like.
First it must feel secure and not be defensive, is it relaxed in it's environment. Moving it to another tub to feed is a no no and will just stress it. You have to have the temperatures right, it should at 33c, the pythons temp not the cage so you need an IR thermometer, the cool area can be 26c but the python must have the right body temp or it will not feed. Assuming it was a few weeks old when you got it it is now more than 4 months old and certainly should not be fed pinky anything. Mine eat large fuzzy mice from the first feed and they have a significant smell and texture that the python recognises as prey, at it's age it should be on at least large hoppers or weaner mice but it may be undersized. Not sure why it was force fed but now it probably has bad memories of the taste and smell of things forced down its throat.
You need to get all of the above right and leave it alone for a period then when it is relaxed and starts to show signs of prowling at night for food try introducing a fuzzy mouse with as little disruption as possible. It may be confused as to the smells so thawing a fuzzy mouse with a rat may help. As a last resort I have assist fed rats tails to difficult feeders immediately followed by a fuzzy mouse thawed with the rats tail but never in 15 years of breeding hundreds of albino Darwins have I had to force feed one.


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## Sdaji (Mar 16, 2019)

Pink mice are too small for a carpet, even for a first feed. Pink rats are usually about the right size, or a fuzzy mouse. It's normal for them not to be interested in small pink mice, and it's not worth really worth bothering with them.

Your description of the temperatures is a bit vague. You should have a comfortable place on the ground where the snake can sit at around 32 degrees at all times. Spotlights/basking lamps for hatchlings are generally not a great idea, and if they're forced to use that sort of heat to be warm enough they're probably going to feel unhappy, unsafe, and unwilling to take the risk of feeding. If you really want to have a basking lamp and climbing branches as well that's not necessarily a problem as long as you have the basic floor heat taken care of. Some snakes won't care and will happily feed as long as they can get up to temperature in any way, some will even feed if they can't get up to temperature (which will cause problems possibly including killing them), but many will refuse to eat. It sounds like your heat mat isn't strong enough, and that's only going to be an increasing problem as the weather gets cooler. Getting the temperatures right is the single most important task as a reptile keeper.


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

I'd recommend getting a very very snug fit hide.


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## Sdaji (Mar 16, 2019)

Is that a thermostat probe dangling above the skull near the ceiling?


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> Unfortunately the situation is now complicated by the force feeding and mix of mice/rats, it does not know what food tastes or smells like.
> First it must feel secure and not be defensive, is it relaxed in it's environment. Moving it to another tub to feed is a no no and will just stress it. You have to have the temperatures right, it should at 33c, the pythons temp not the cage so you need an IR thermometer, the cool area can be 26c but the python must have the right body temp or it will not feed. Assuming it was a few weeks old when you got it it is now more than 4 months old and certainly should not be fed pinky anything. Mine eat large fuzzy mice from the first feed and they have a significant smell and texture that the python recognises as prey, at it's age it should be on at least large hoppers or weaner mice but it may be undersized. Not sure why it was force fed but now it probably has bad memories of the taste and smell of things forced down its throat.
> You need to get all of the above right and leave it alone for a period then when it is relaxed and starts to show signs of prowling at night for food try introducing a fuzzy mouse with as little disruption as possible. It may be confused as to the smells so thawing a fuzzy mouse with a rat may help. As a last resort I have assist fed rats tails to difficult feeders immediately followed by a fuzzy mouse thawed with the rats tail but never in 15 years of breeding hundreds of albino Darwins have I had to force feed one.


We dont change tubs to feed. just have tried different scenarios. She is showing at 31.5 deg. she prowles at night. I will try to find hopper mice on the coast, not easy.


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

Where are you located? 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Bl69aze said:


> I'd recommend getting a very very snug fit hide.


we had one she wouldnt use it, just avoided it
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Sdaji said:


> Is that a thermostat probe dangling above the skull near the ceiling?


Yes
[doublepost=1552720157][/doublepost]


chloe.j.f said:


> Where are you located?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Coolum Beach
[doublepost=1552720188][/doublepost]


Ian Gibbs said:


> we had one she wouldnt use it, just avoided it
> [doublepost=1552720115,1552720081][/doublepost]
> Yes
> [doublepost=1552720157][/doublepost]
> Coolum Beach


I will look for a better hide
[doublepost=1552720291][/doublepost]


Bl69aze said:


> I'd recommend getting a very very snug fit hide.


We have a 1/2 coconut shell. Would that be ok for a hide?
[doublepost=1552720340][/doublepost]I appreciate all your advice. Thank you all!


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

Honestly, half a coconut is one of the BEST hides  just cut a little snippet out for an entry and bobs your uncle.

I guess make sure it hasnt been treated with chemicals


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## Sdaji (Mar 16, 2019)

Do you have separate thermostats for the heat mat and lamp? If so, the lamp is going to heat up the thermostat probe and shut it off while the ground is still cold, so the snake will not be able to get warm.

The most important place to be measuring and controlling the temperature is ground level on the warm side, not suspended up in the air, because the snake can rest on the ground but can't hover up in the air near the ceiling.


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Bl69aze said:


> Honestly, half a coconut is one of the BEST hides  just cut a little snippet out for an entry and bobs your uncle.
> 
> I guess make sure it hasnt been treated with chemicals


Thank will do
[doublepost=1552722018,1552721856][/doublepost]


Ian Gibbs said:


> Thank will do




[doublepost=1552722169][/doublepost]


Sdaji said:


> Do you have separate thermostats for the heat mat and lamp? If so, the lamp is going to heat up the thermostat probe and shut it off while the ground is still cold, so the snake will not be able to get warm.
> 
> The most important place to be measuring and controlling the temperature is ground level on the warm side, not suspended up in the air, because the snake can rest on the ground but can't hover up in the air near the ceiling.


The ground over the heat mat is 45,5 deg according to the gun
[doublepost=1552722203][/doublepost]I will turn the lamp off and see what the mat holds


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## Yellowtail (Mar 16, 2019)

Which "coast" are you on?


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## Bl69aze (Mar 16, 2019)

Ian Gibbs said:


> Thank will do
> [doublepost=1552722018,1552721856][/doublepost]
> View attachment 326768
> 
> ...


45.5 will cook the poor thing :l, what happened to it cutting of at 33


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> Which "coast" are you on?


East
Coolum Beach QLD
[doublepost=1552724957,1552724905][/doublepost]


Bl69aze said:


> 45.5 will cook the poor thing :l, what happened to it cutting of at 33


its set to
[doublepost=1552725327][/doublepost]


Bl69aze said:


> 45.5 will cook the poor thing :l, what happened to it cutting of at 33


I put the thermostat down to the base under the hide. when I check around with the gun its 35s, 34s around the area. The thermo say 35. 
45 is at the hole to the hide


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## Yellowtail (Mar 16, 2019)

If you are ever near the Gold Coast I am happy to give you some mixed sizes fuzzies/hoppers if it will help get it feeding.


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

Yellowtail said:


> If you are ever near the Gold Coast I am happy to give you some mixed sizes fuzzies/hoppers if it will help get it feeding.


Thanks mate, I appreciate that.


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 16, 2019)

You need a smaller hide than that, so he can just squeeze into it 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 16, 2019)

chloe.j.f said:


> You need a smaller hide than that, so he can just squeeze into it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ah ok ill see what I can get. thx


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## chloe.j.f (Mar 17, 2019)

Also stop all handling till she’s had 5 consecutive feeds 


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## Ian Gibbs (Mar 17, 2019)

chloe.j.f said:


> Also stop all handling till she’s had 5 consecutive feeds
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will have some hoppers on Wednesday. hopefully they will stimulate her


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