# What don't snakes like?



## snakesalive123 (Dec 19, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I like snakes. I grew up with lovely black snakes and tree snakes in NSW. The browns in Qld here are a little harder to love, but I investigated online and we've had success with steering them away from the house and yard by providing 'snake corridors' of low shrubs and otherwise keeping the backyard mowed so that the kookaburras can do their thing. Otherwise we're basically happy to let them have the patch of rainforest in the garden and keep down the rats that feast on the nut trees there.

About three years ago I started keeping chickens without incident. Then ...over the last three weeks I have lost FIVE teenage chickens!!! :evil: 

They have vanished in the early morning (3-4amish from the crowing) as if by alien abduction and I just know it was a snake because what else could it be? A hawk, fox dog or cat could not get in without leaving a trace and rats would leave some evidence, if they were interested in chicks that big anyway which I doubt. It mangled my rooster with a bite to the neck so I am guessing it is a python and not a brown. The pen is double chicken wired and roofed, we've added aviary mesh to the sides but I think the industrious creature is getting in through the roof where there are a few gaps, or even UNDER the pen. It must be huge. I don't know how it gets OUT after eating the chicken, in fact I have found two "throttled" and half pulled through the wire as if it knew they were too big to eat inside!!! Can snakes be that smart? :shock:

We keep blocking up anything that looks like a snake has squished through and digging mesh down as best we can but it's never enough.

I can't blame it for wanting my delicious delicious heritage chickens, however... how do you turn off a snake who has found a source of food it likes? I like snakes but if it forces me to come right down to it, I like my chickens better so I thought I would go to the source and ask here as YOU GUYS KNOW SNAKES! 

Short of knocking down their habitat, which would be a huge job anyway, is there anything SAFE that deters snakes? BE HONEST! And, as you obviously make enclosures that snakes can't get out of - I am thinking the same thing would work to keep them from getting in - any tips on how to mesh a really big pen to be snake proof that's within reach for the average person (who can't weld etc LOL)? Links will do I know I am being lazy here.

Also... this might seem like a really dumb question... but with that many chickens taken, once two in two nights, could it really just be one snake? Or more than one? I sort of imagined snakes ate one large meal then slept for weeks or something.... 

Oh and just in case someone suggests it I don't think a snake catcher could help - it's getting out of the pen so I couldn't 'hold' it for a catcher to arrive and god knows which tree it's living in. I wish it would move into my ceiling and eat mice instead.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 19, 2012)

Are you sure the snake isnt still in there?


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 19, 2012)

Welcome to APS


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## Kraft (Dec 19, 2012)

CCTV cameras you'll see what when and how


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## Marzzy (Dec 19, 2012)

Can't kill snakes that's illegal.
I can't imagine a snake wanting to leave so soon. Did you check under the lay box or in the hay ? Be careful = )
Try early morning to. 

Use expanda foam on bits that are hard to cover.... Example the curved bits of the tin between the wood and the tin. 

How is the chicken wire secured to the roof ? Snakes are great climbers and extremely good at finding holes. Just ask some of the people on here haha. 

When the chooks are pulled through the wire what do they look like us there chunks of feathers everywhere ? Bite mark looks like ? Do they look like they have been squeezed ? 

Dam people were fast.


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 19, 2012)

I dont think he wants to kill it? dunno where you got that from?

I think he is after a way of detering them coming.... bit hard with chooks....


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## Marzzy (Dec 19, 2012)

snakesalive123 said:


> I can't blame it for wanting my delicious delicious heritage chickens, however... how do you turn off a snake who has found a source of food it likes? I like snakes but if it forces me to come right down to it, I like my chickens better so I thought I would go to the source and ask here as YOU GUYS KNOW SNAKES!



Just seemed like it my bad.

Exactly there's no way of deterring them unless you have a pack of kookaburras to patrol your chook pen. Which is why you gotta snake proof the pen.... Your visitor is nice anyway lol.


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh, ok.... I read turn off as in turn away....

I still think he is after a 'magic cure' to stop it wanting to come back.... like those plug in the wall rodent sonic devices... for snakes or something? 

I think he is better to locate the snake and call a snake catcher to take it and relocate it? I wouldnt be suprised if it is inside the pen somewhere  They are very sneaky :lol:


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## Marzzy (Dec 19, 2012)

We think alike a good distance to. That way it won't be back (hopefully). We had those plug in pest free things when I use to work at KFC ( the rodents lived in it for the warmth ).


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## snakesalive123 (Dec 19, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> It is prolly a big carpet python.... depending on where in Qld you are.... All you can really do is make the pen snake proof.... use mesh and screws to block any possible entrance for a snake.... and as Josh said, take a good look around INSIDE the pen.... go over it with a microscope.... it could be living in there with the chooks
> 
> Do spot checks of the coop during the night.... any time you wake up, grab a torch and have a quick look in the pen.... see if you can catch the culprit in action.... and of course, keep an ear out for the chooks going ballistic in the night.... he might be stirring them up.
> 
> Welcome to APS



Thanks for all the replies - OMG I hadn't even THOUGHT it could still be in there!!! It COULD be, I guess! No wonder my old red hen has completely abandoned the place (I thought she was just enforcing her retirement privileges!). :shock:

I've tried searching with a torch the last few nights out of desperation, when I hear the chooks go off, but haven't spotted it yet.


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## Tinky (Dec 19, 2012)

Snakes don't like tattoos of humans on their skin........

......(sorry thought that this was a fashion thread).


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## cathy1986 (Dec 19, 2012)

I always leave my chicken coop open at night as they have a chance to escape as a snake will ALWAYS find a way in


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## snakesalive123 (Dec 19, 2012)

CaptainRatbag said:


> Oh, ok.... I read turn off as in turn away....
> 
> I still think he is after a 'magic cure' to stop it wanting to come back.... like those plug in the wall rodent sonic devices... for snakes or something?
> 
> I think he is better to locate the snake and call a snake catcher to take it and relocate it? I wouldnt be suprised if it is inside the pen somewhere  They are very sneaky :lol:



Actually you are kinda right I was hoping for something like "ring the pen with lime" or "shine a red light into the trees and you'll be able to see it" (just making these up for examples lol). Seriously... is there anything? 

I don't think sonic pest deterrents work - tried the rat ones years ago and they were completely bogus - but if this guy doesn't mind me stomping around and the occasional rock band practicing here I don't think a 'thumper' will shift him. I'm fairly convinced people with thumpers just haven't spotted any of their snakes that season. Maybe it would work on small ones but .... I'm doubtful. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love to plug in something that deterred them! 

PS: Am a 'she'.

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Tinky said:


> Snakes don't like tattoos of humans on their skin........
> 
> ......(sorry thought that this was a fashion thread).



lol!

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Marzzy said:


> Can't kill snakes that's illegal.
> I can't imagine a snake wanting to leave so soon. Did you check under the lay box or in the hay ? Be careful = )
> Try early morning to.
> 
> ...



I have both hay and boxes... it did not occur to me it could be in there, but will search today! It would certainly explain a lot.

I don't want to kill it, in fact the opposite I'd like to be able to keep my chookies and still let Mr Anaconda live happily in his foxtail palms. I don't want to have a situation where I find it with my favourite chicken by a leg and I'm faced with a choice to smack it or lose a pet. I don't think I could actually smack a carpet snake, they are way adorable, so I have to find another way to save the chickens.


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## PrecisionPythons (Dec 19, 2012)

IMO Just let nature take its course, survival of the fittest I say haha (not being biased at all). I really do feel for the chickens :/ 
considering this is an aussie pythons and snakes forum  
gotta really feel for the snake he is considerably out numbered by all those fighting chooks


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## CaptainRatbag (Dec 19, 2012)

Maybe you could try putting in one of those fake owls or something.... the ones from bunnies with the big eyes.... maybe the snake might see it and have second thoughts? I think there is fake falcons as well....

I have several large pythons visit my rat shed.... they get in the shed, but they cant get into the rats cages.... perhaps make a cage within the pen with the laying boxes inside, that the chickens can stay in over night..... then the snake can see the fake owl during the day when the chooks are out?

Just a thought..... If you find the snake, call a catcher to relocate it for you


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## Gruni (Dec 19, 2012)

I just skimmed most of the posts but my thinking is to start by thoroughly checking the inside of the coop especially if there is a chance of getting under the nesting box. Then you could try those solar snake repellors, I have heard from a couple of people that they have made a big difference around their homes, they work on a vibration and high frequency transmission that snakes apparently don't like and they have a 50m radius so one next to your coop will be more than adequate.


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## Reptilez123 (Dec 19, 2012)

apparently if you put sulphur around your tent when you go camping it can repel away the snakes so same could go for your chicken coop thats what my science teacher told me anyway im not so sure if its true?


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## Polainas9 (Dec 19, 2012)

You can try add some flour on every floor edges and watch the every morning. Maybe you will distinguish the marks of chickens and snake and see where did it passed by.

Or maybe you can try provide a good warm shelter to the snake and watch it every day.


This are the methods that we use when the snakes are missing...


(Sorry for the english.  )


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## RedFox (Dec 19, 2012)

OP good luck with the snake. I would not be suprised if he has made himself a nice home under the nest box


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## thals (Dec 19, 2012)

Your best bet would be to thoroughly snake-proof the area blocking up any gaps and using smaller meshing, this will also help to keep out other animals. 

In regards snake repellers *THEY DO NOT WORK! *I cannot stress that enough, so many people spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on these things only to find they don't deter the snakes in the very least. The manufacturers prey on peoples' fears to make a quick buck.


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## Stuart (Dec 19, 2012)

Lets keep things on topic guys


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## moosenoose (Dec 19, 2012)

My next door neighbor used to keep chickens and years later they decided to knock the chicken coup down. Underneath were two very large large adult red bellied blacks who were there quite clearly, just keeping the rats and mice in check. They never touched the chooks. Which (also) leads me to believe that you have a resident python, rather than anything in the elapid stakes hanging about.


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## Gruni (Dec 19, 2012)

As for the repellor I openly admit to have no personal experience I simply know of someone who has and _they claim_ to have had sucess with them. I think they were about $50 each and for the sake of one I figure there is nothing to lose in this case as I am not suggesting an investment of hundreds or even thousands of dollars.


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## BIGBANG (Dec 19, 2012)

i am frequented by brown snakes in my chook pen chasing mice, how big is the mesh your pen is made out of, if its taking decent sized chooks it must be a decent sized snake, i'm not sure what nocturnal mammals you have in qld, could it be something else??smaller than a fox more cat sized?


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## longqi (Dec 19, 2012)

Im not sure it is a snake
reason being 2 in 2 nights
unless of course you have a family moving in??
'snakes in the chookhouse??
possibly a monitor would clean up a couple in 2 days
but a decent sized chook is plenty for most pythons
with that in the gut they will just rest up for at least 3 or 4 days
so no reason for one python to return within 24hours


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## thals (Dec 19, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Threads are no longer like conversation that can drift onto tangents and back again so much, aparently...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many snake catchers who come into contact with these contraptions quite regularly at call outs will tell you otherwise. Check out goldcoastsnakeshows and ssssnakeman on youtube for example. Why use something widely acknowledged to be useless and lull you into a false sense of security, which is the real danger. Better to ensure that the chickens are safely secured and invest the money into doing that, at least you won't be wasting any and it will solve the problem!


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## Dan40D (Dec 19, 2012)

How big is the mesh?? If it is a snake and it is large enough to take "teenage chickens" its going to be a fair size snake and reasonably easy to spot i would imagine. The snake might have been able to get through the mesh, but if it is eating chickens then i doubt it would get back through the mesh. If the mesh is big enough for the snake to get back through then there is a fair chance that the chooks would be able to get through it as well.


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## RedFox (Dec 19, 2012)

OP you said there was a rainforest and foxtail palms everywhere, any chance you are in Cairns, Port Douglas, Mossman area?


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## snakesalive123 (Dec 19, 2012)

Polainas9 said:


> You can try add some flour on every floor edges and watch the every morning. Maybe you will distinguish the marks of chickens and snake and see where did it passed by.
> 
> Or maybe you can try provide a good warm shelter to the snake and watch it every day.
> 
> ...



I gotta say, flour is a brilliant idea and I'm a bit ashamed as a theoretically cunning human that I didn't think of doing something like that.

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RedFox said:


> OP you said there was a rainforest and foxtail palms everywhere, any chance you are in Cairns, Port Douglas, Mossman area?



West Brisbane by the river. The rainforest is only in a small patch in our backyard, and also has pecans and a large macadamia (thus the bush rats). It was planted by a garden enthusiast about 25 years ago and well before we moved in and has many north qld plants and the bunches of foxtails are giant and fruiting. We have MANY brown snakes here from the river, I have also seen a Coastal Taipan and of course carpets. No black snakes.

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Dan40D said:


> How big is the mesh?? If it is a snake and it is large enough to take "teenage chickens" its going to be a fair size snake and reasonably easy to spot i would imagine. The snake might have been able to get through the mesh, but if it is eating chickens then i doubt it would get back through the mesh. If the mesh is big enough for the snake to get back through then there is a fair chance that the chooks would be able to get through it as well.



This is really something I need info on - I couldn't find the snake in a quick search this afternoon but I must admit I was scared too dig around in the hay. The pen has normal chicken wire, double layer around the bottom, and now also has aviary mesh we have dug in but only along one side so far (will get to the rest next week). I do not know how well snakes can squish through things but it has had trouble getting two out, I found them stuffed against a stretched out hole in one corner not a scratch on them but throttled and beat up. The others just gone. I was thinking perhaps they "crushed" the teenage chickens inside them or something and could squish out but I'm also worried it could be in the pen. My husband says twaddle, carpet snakes like living up trees and won't be under the gravel but I am not sure, what do you guys know about carpet snakes would it really live under a nesting box? I have two nesting boxes on the ground both with broody hens in them at the moment that I have not looked under yet!

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longqi said:


> Im not sure it is a snake
> reason being 2 in 2 nights
> unless of course you have a family moving in??
> 'snakes in the chookhouse??
> ...


Kind of what I thought! I think I need to get a night vision camera *sigh*. Are carpets territorial or could there be more than one? It is not a monitor, I am certain one could not get in and I would surely see a goanna at some point rustling up a tree if one were around. We have plenty of water dragons however they can't get in as I keep having to rescue the idiots who get stuck in the door running past when I leave it open.

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Fairly certain it's impregnable to cats, dogs, and hawks. I had trouble with crows getting in to start with so it's fairly secure, I think... definitely need to go check ebay for night cameras...

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Oh and our browns grow to very large size around here, most I see are around 2 metre mark... have seen them in the pen before but hoped they were just rat snakes and not chicken snakes... oh and my roo survived a tangle so thinking not poisonous because of that.... but would they be more likely to live IN a pen on the ground than a python?


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## Tinky (Dec 20, 2012)

How would you go with Cayenne Pepper. I have heard of people using this to dicourage other animals from an area.

Cant imagine a snake would be happy if the chicken sent had a spicy bite to it. Then again the chooks might not be pleased either.


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## Dan40D (Dec 20, 2012)

snakesalive123 said:


> This is really something I need info on - I couldn't find the snake in a quick search this afternoon but I must admit I was scared too dig around in the hay. The pen has normal chicken wire, double layer around the bottom, and now also has aviary mesh we have dug in but only along one side so far (will get to the rest next week). I do not know how well snakes can squish through things but it has had trouble getting two out, I found them stuffed against a stretched out hole in one corner not a scratch on them but throttled and beat up. The others just gone. I was thinking perhaps they "crushed" the teenage chickens inside them or something and could squish out but I'm also worried it could be in the pen. My husband says twaddle, carpet snakes like living up trees and won't be under the gravel but I am not sure, what do you guys know about carpet snakes would it really live under a nesting box? I have two nesting boxes on the ground both with broody hens in them at the moment that I have not looked under yet!



Any chance that you have Quolls in the area?? If you are near the river and have bushland around then that is a possibility. If you found two of the chickens then IMO you don't have a snake problem, my money would would be on a Quoll or a cat.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 20, 2012)

Carpets will take advantage of any place to hide, it does not have to be above ground level.


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## cement (Dec 20, 2012)

Hey snakesalive 123, I have no trouble believing you have a snake in there for sure.
Are the heads of the chooks that are killed covered in a saliva(wet and matted)? Its possible that you have a carpet that is very hungry, and small enough to get in through a hole somewhere and kill a chicken but not big enough to eat it. Even a small 3-4 ft python has a fair strength and could do the job, it wouldn't be the first time a snake has killed prey to big to eat. That would explain the two dead birds in two days.
Very possible that it is living in there under nest boxes and underground in rodent burrows etc. Your bloke is not correct in saying they just live in trees. They live where the food is. If the birds have no sign of wetness (even wetness that has dried) or any sign of trauma then I would say you may have a venomous snake in there cleaning up the mice and biting the chooks out of annoyance rather than an attempt to eat them. It is common for eastern browns to move into a chook house through the day when the door is left open following the scent of rodents and then take up residence until it has cleaned all the rodents out, unfortunately they often kill a chook or two that get in the way, then it then moves on looking for more food.
I have done a callout to a house where there was a 6 ft python living in a rabbit hutch with the rabbit, curling up next to the rabbit for warmth while it digested the rats it took that would come into the hutch at night. The rabbit didn't seem to care one way or the other about the snake and had no fear of it.
If you can get a snake catcher to come out and do a search you should get answers if they are any good. If it has moved on and isn't in the chook house then make sure you go right around and patch or fill any holes. There is a wire called snake wire that has a 6mm guage its very good for keeping out mice to. 
The only effective way to keep snakes away is to keep the snakes food source away (rodents), very difficult with large chook pens. Keep the area around the hen house very open and clear of bushes and rubbish etc.


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## snakesalive123 (Dec 21, 2012)

cement said:


> Hey snakesalive 123, I have no trouble believing you have a snake in there for sure.
> Are the heads of the chooks that are killed covered in a saliva(wet and matted)? Its possible that you have a carpet that is very hungry, and small enough to get in through a hole somewhere and kill a chicken but not big enough to eat it. Even a small 3-4 ft python has a fair strength and could do the job, it wouldn't be the first time a snake has killed prey to big to eat. That would explain the two dead birds in two days.
> Very possible that it is living in there under nest boxes and underground in rodent burrows etc. Your bloke is not correct in saying they just live in trees. They live where the food is. If the birds have no sign of wetness (even wetness that has dried) or any sign of trauma then I would say you may have a venomous snake in there cleaning up the mice and biting the chooks out of annoyance rather than an attempt to eat them. It is common for eastern browns to move into a chook house through the day when the door is left open following the scent of rodents and then take up residence until it has cleaned all the rodents out, unfortunately they often kill a chook or two that get in the way, then it then moves on looking for more food.
> I have done a callout to a house where there was a 6 ft python living in a rabbit hutch with the rabbit, curling up next to the rabbit for warmth while it digested the rats it took that would come into the hutch at night. The rabbit didn't seem to care one way or the other about the snake and had no fear of it.
> ...



Thanks so much for the info! I think the snake wire is the same as the aviary mesh - it is very firm and small squares about 6mm. I think I might have meshed it IN! I do leave the door open during the day. God I hope it's not a brown snake. This is just getting worse and worse. I did meet a Coastal Taipan in the pen last year, he looked at me like he was higher on the food chain than I was.

My beautiful hen got taken last night, have been up all night to see if it comes back but no luck. Heard the rooster and ran out and found her dead on the ground, just a few feathers out of place. She is a huge hen too. I couldn't find any bite marks but I was probably crying too hard to see and it's hard through feathers and torch light. Her head was not wet, however the other two younger ones I found looked 'stomped' and could well have had an attempt at being swallowed. If it's lots of hungry small snakes I'm pretty much up the creek and I think I will have to build a new, smaller, more snake proof pen and abandon this one for useless as it is too close to the habitat.


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 21, 2012)

If the attacks are only happening at night then you can pretty much rule out brown snakes etc as they are diurnal (active only during the day).


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## andynic07 (Dec 21, 2012)

cement said:


> I have done a callout to a house where there was a 6 ft python living in a rabbit hutch with the rabbit, curling up next to the rabbit for warmth while it digested the rats it took that would come into the hutch at night. The rabbit didn't seem to care one way or the other about the snake and had no fear of it.



My kids rabbit wasn't as lucky.


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## Umbral (Dec 21, 2012)

Wow, good looking python!


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## andynic07 (Dec 21, 2012)

Umbral said:


> Wow, good looking python!


It was a really nice looking wild python and not a bad size either. The hutch is about 450mm across . He was relocated without much drama.


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## cathy1986 (Dec 22, 2012)

andynic07 said:


> My kids rabbit wasn't as lucky.



Nice lookin snake tho ;-)


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## ironized (Dec 23, 2012)

Ok, I have infinitely less experience then anyone else here but here is what I'm thinking.

A python would only be able to kill it via strangulation. Your chooks would need to be strangled and ALL would have some kind of evidence of that. An interesting way to tell would be to look at their eyes and look for burst blood vessels(A bit of an abstract application of Forensic pathology applied to humans.)

Also you said it had attempted to pull a chook through the fence? To me, this is indicative of it not being a snake. I am, in my newness to this, with out knowledge of snakes that would transport their pray. 

That said, to find one pulled through the fence really doesn't make sense for any animal?

Is there a chance you have neighbors doing this?

If it was toothed mammal, you would expect to see blood, and rather unclean and vicious biting to the jugular, tearing and a lot of loose feathers.

I could imagine a monitor doing this, and the chook getting stuck in the fence occurred accidentally some how?

I would guess its a ven of some kind that is after rats and is just taking aggressive chooks. That said, Im new to the game.


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## snakesalive123 (Dec 28, 2012)

Just thought I would report back - it is a carpet python!

It was not in the pen - we got a snake catcher out, he checked it throughly.

After I lost my hen (who was a huge full grown hen btw, it didn't eat her) my rooster removed the rest of his girls from the hen house at his own discretion, probably as horrified as we were that it had got a hen rather than a youngun', to the patio to sleep.

They were OK the first night, then last night we lost a two month old pullet (the very last of that hatch sadly - snakey ate/killed ALL six within two weeks). I was not sure the snake got that one, as they weren't penned I thought it could have been a cat. I mean, right on the patio outside the back door. I kept flicking the lights on to check them. My rooster moved his hens BACK to the pen! We hung up mothballs everywhere. :/

So this evening, I am sitting down when I hear this sound like a roll of unravelling aluminum foil. I sort of sit there for a moment processing it, and decide it's weird enough to go check. I'm still not sure where the sound came from when suddenly I hear screaming type cheeping from my five little baby chicks in what I thought was the last snake proof refuge around here, a chicken tractor with mesh about 2cm square. It's also on the patio.

I flick on the lights and there before me is the tail of at least a seven foot carpet python, hanging out of the chicken tractor where it had squished it's big fat body through one of the little wire gaps!!!!! argh!

Grabbed the torch and ran out, it's too late for the chick it has but I let the rest out and got them to safety inside. 

It was easily as fat as my upper arm at it's fattest point and between 6 - 7 feet long, looked about right to eat a small pullet but not a large chicken though not far off frankly (I once saw a very small tree snake eat a whole possum). Looks like it could easily negotiate chicken wire, some aviary mesh should stop him/her though. Left as fast as it came - with the chicken. 

I apologise to all the brown snakes I have been disparaging over the past few weeks, and thanks so much everyone for helping me with clues to solve my mystery! I understand carpets are territorial so I'll try not to have to relocate him, I'll just keep meshing until the pen is impregnable.... erk...


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## Chanzey (Dec 28, 2012)

Well at least you know what it is... could always be more than one though  I'd love some big coastals around my house. Plenty of juveniles though.

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Well at least you know what it is... could always be more than one though  I'd love some big coastals around my house. Plenty of juveniles though.


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