# CROCS NSW



## zulu (Feb 24, 2006)

HI,wouldnt it be a good idea to have crocs on a class 2 license in NSW ,that way those people that didnt want to keep them anymore for whatever reason could dispose of them legally instead of dumping them as was the case recently.I am interested to hear anyones views on the subject in NSW or anywhere else thanks.


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## olivehydra (Feb 24, 2006)

I love crocs, but I think I would draw the line at freshies only. This is of course my view as someone who lives in a smallish unit. Perhaps if you had a large yard or farm, I think salties would be OK. I have never dealt with crocs so my opinion his worthless, but I dont see them being any more potentially dangerous than some elapids.


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## NoOne (Feb 24, 2006)

It was dismissed the last time they reviewed the licenses in NSW, probably should be looked at again.
Would be kinda nice to have a small croc.


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## Hendrix (Feb 24, 2006)

Good Question Zulu.
I agree with olivehydra, a saltie could be just as dangerous as some elapids. The only thing is elapids dont get has big and heavy as a croc. I think, and could well be wrong, that here in SA you can keep salties till a certain size. But what do you do with them then? There must be somone who accepts them at this point, perhaps a breeding farm in the NT. Does any one have more specific answers?


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## zulu (Feb 24, 2006)

*re CROCS*

Yeh it would be nice to have one dugs,they are out there ilegally in NSW with all the other illegal stuff and the crocs are native,its better to draw people into legal activities.If someone wants a croc now it goes in the tank opposite the boas and corn snakes :roll:


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## zulu (Feb 24, 2006)

*re CROCS*

Hendrix i thought large salties would be valuable? to croc farms,zoos and private keepers


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## peterjohnson64 (Feb 24, 2006)

olivehydra said:


> but I dont see them being any more potentially dangerous than some elapids.



Or pit bulls or large monitors or other dogs as well.


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## olivehydra (Feb 24, 2006)

*re CROCS*



zulu said:


> Hendrix i thought large salties would be valuable? to croc farms,zoos and private keepers



As stated before, I know very little about crocs, but the skin and meat is harvested from younger animals, I thought. Dont want those WOMEN getting blisters from their croc skin shoes. :wink: A large croc would be a poor investment to a farm other than as a breeder? Not sure?


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## Hendrix (Feb 24, 2006)

Zulu, 
Correct large salties would be valuable, but can a large croc be safely kept, to itself and others in suberbia? TO large it will need to be kept outside in a specialised set up, for heat and its and others protection. I dont see one lasting to long to far south say Adelaide or Melbourne. Ok they are in zoo's but zoos are specialised and have keepers who do nothing else but care for herps as their day job. I dont think Joe average could safely house and husband a big croc thats all. One of our local shops had one as a display but got to a "certain size" (dont ask me) and was "disposed of" (again no idea), and yes there is a prefered age and size for farmed animals.
Again I am not sure if this size thing is correct. I could be completly wrong. I will have to check the SA NPWS site and see.


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## Megalania (Mar 3, 2006)

The problem with allowing crocs is their eventual size. I am talking about freshies and salties. Disposing of them once they got too big would be a problem, as I think you would find few places would take them. By the way freshies have a worse temperament than salties, so even these can be a bit of a handful.


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## imported_Varanus (Mar 3, 2006)

BIG NO-NO I reckon,

Having worked on Croc farms on several occasions in the Kimberley(W.A), I'd suggest these animals are best left to those who are set-up to handle them and do so on a regular basis.(strict saftey procedures become second nature after a while). Perhaps the biggest difference between elapids, goannas, pitbulls and large salties is that the latter sees human beings as just another meal (pretty BIG difference) and you can't easily get to a hospital/ phone if you have a large croc hanging off your arm, most likely trying to drown you in the pond you so lovingly set up for him!! :shock: As for croc farms taking them when their older/bigger, they already have a ready supply of wild caught animals on their doorstep(rogues) so, unless you want to pay transport costs, I'd say it's highly unlikely.

Having said all that, there is a dwarf version of Freshie available to herpers in some states(adult length about 1 metre) that could be suitable.


Cheers,

Varanus.


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## herptrader (Mar 3, 2006)

Croc's can be kept in Victoria but very few large ones are kept. A large salty needs an area the size of a garage (IMO a double garage) that has to be heated, include a large pool and UV. Keeping them outside in southern regions is not an option. This sort of setup is for a dedicated few. If you are that dedicated (and have the finances to run such a facility) then I can see no reason why you should not be alble to keep them.

I am not aware of any croc keepers in Victoria that have been killed or badly injured by their pets.

For my part I think small croc's are particularly cute. It is a shame they grow to be so big and dangerous.

Even the pygmy fresh water crocs which are supposed to grow to just 1 meter will require a pretty serious investment in caging etc.


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## SLACkra (Mar 3, 2006)

wasn't their that guy who was talking about the dwarf freshwater crocodiles at teh VHS meeting a while back? i remember him saying the baby one he had grew extremely slowly compared to the other freshie hatchlings he had. 

if you were goign to have a crocodile this far south i wreckon a greenhouse type setup would be required. personally i think salties should only be kept by people who can appropriately house them when they reach their adult size. but thats just my opinion.

andrew


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## Spike14 (Mar 3, 2006)

I rekon that crocs should be able to be kept in NSW BUT, There should be requirements like if you get the class license you need to keep them you have to have 2yrs experience with a pygmy fresh water croc to be able to get a freshie, then 3 yrs experience with a freshie tobe able to get a salty, And after a certin size they should be given back to the breeder or diposed of so that they dont get to big to be a threat, but if you live in rural ares you can keep them until they die.


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## herptrader (Mar 3, 2006)

SLACkra said:


> wasn't their that guy who was talking about the dwarf freshwater crocodiles at teh VHS meeting a while back? i remember him saying the baby one he had grew extremely slowly compared to the other freshie hatchlings he had.



That was Gavin Bedford. He had (has?) a research permit that allowed the collecting of a limited number of eggs from the wild. Last I heard they had not had much luck finding the eggs for the project.


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## Magpie (Mar 3, 2006)

> I dont see one lasting to long to far south say Adelaide or Melbourne




You can already keep them in those cities, this is NSW we are talking about.
I think of course you should be allowed to, but I think 90% of our current laws are ridiculous and should be scrapped.
Wah Wah, what if someone didn't look after it right? Well? you really think they are the people that care about licences? Laws don't stop people from doing things, they just make it possible for the people to be charged and prosecuted if they get caught doing them.


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## Megalania (Mar 3, 2006)

> I am not aware of any croc keepers in Victoria that have been killed or badly injured by their pets.


 
I am aware of someone in Vic who had their arm/shoulder badly damaged by a relatively small (1-2m), so much so that he was attempting to sell his animals as they were becoming a liability.

The point is most keepers do not have enough experience with these guys to warrant the risk of having them licensed in NSW. They sit and wait for weeks and months for you to get careless or complacent and then they hit, and hit hard. I also don't like the idea of a lot of pet crocodile keepers surrendering their animals in 4-5 years knowing that they are most likely going to be euthanased. Now if we could have Dwarf Caimans, my response would be a little different.


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## Spike14 (Mar 3, 2006)

But we do have pygmy fresh water crocs!


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## Megalania (Mar 3, 2006)

> But we do have pygmy fresh water crocs!


I am yet to be convinced that they are a seperate species..........I think its just a quirk of the physical environment they are in. It would be interesting to see how some juvies fair if they had access to optimal diet......they may turn out to be "normal"


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## SLACkra (Mar 3, 2006)

> I am yet to be convinced that they are a seperate species..........I think its just a quirk of the physical environment they are in. It would be interesting to see how some juvies fair if they had access to optimal diet......they may turn out to be "normal"



well acording to the guy who talked at one of the VHS meetings their is a difference. if i remember correctly he said he had 1 baby dwarf freshie and 1-2 normal baby freshies. they all ate the same amount but the dwarf one grew alot slower than the normal ones. 

andrew


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## saikrett (Mar 3, 2006)

i support the pygmy croc idea, but the problem i see is that there is going to be an abundance of sub-adult and adult crocs going around that no-one would want. Shippping them is expensive and i can see alot being euthanased or worse still realeased


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## saikrett (Mar 3, 2006)

oh and does growing slower mean that they stop growing earlier, of will they reach the same size in more time?


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## yommy (Mar 3, 2006)

Having a little experience, a hatchy freshy will give you a better laceration if not handled properly as a baby and can be flighty and can stress easy, where as a saltie hatchy is a saltie, hardy though when get larger can become a problem. So you'd need the right setup and some experience but anyone who's had them, they are easy to keep, the issue comes about if they out grow they're cage size. Croc's make excellent pets and I'm glad I've got to experience them here in the NT.


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## aussiesnakelover (Mar 3, 2006)

wen im older i think i want to move out to humpty doo in the NT here (humpty doo is about 40k out of darwin well the part were i wanna live is)
ive been to Gavin Bedford's house his a great bloke and that were i purchased my mertens water monitor from him
as for the pygmy/dwarf freshies i havnt spoken to him recently so ... but i might have to give him a email,

up here in the NT most pet shops that sell reptiles sell crocs, in surburbia (i think) u can keep salties till they r 40cm long or 2yo wateva cums first and u return them to crocdylus park who they were breed by, and freshies i think u can keep them all thier life, and i havnt seen "pygmy/dwarf freshies" 4 sale o yeah the crocs are sold as hatchies for roun 200 buks each
maybe another darwinite can inlighten us more cos im unsure of this but im pretty sure...yommy?

and yes im only 14 dun have to listen to me lol


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## africancichlidau (Mar 4, 2006)

> Having said all that, there is a dwarf version of Freshie available to herpers in some states(adult length about 1 metre) that could be suitable.



You know of anyone with these Pygmies Varanus? Would love to get some of them if they are being bred in captivity.


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## zulu (Mar 4, 2006)

*re CROCS*

We are talking crocs afro :evil: Pygmys no proplem and youy dont need no license,i got mine after John Howard brought him to australia as a hairdresser so he is legal


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## imported_Varanus (Mar 4, 2006)

Not off hand,

I remember Malcolm(of Malcolm Douglas fame) mentioned Gavin Bedford and a breeding program and I believe some states(those that allow Freshies in captivity) would allow people to keep these. I recall some on the "Herp Trader" site under "other" and"WA Type locality(1100cm)"-$650 ea from memory! 

As Megalania mentioned earlier, they are found on top of the escarpment( not much in the way of food around-especially in the Dry season) so they could simply be a small version of the common or garden variety Freshie!! Interesting to see what would happen over a few gens with an optimal food supply!!

Good luck with the Perenties BTW.

Cheers,

Varanus.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for that Varanus, I would be looking for something younger/ smaller than a metre though. Will have to give it some serious thought as to the commitment and also start working on the missus 

Also thanks for the best wishes with the Perenties


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## zulu (Mar 4, 2006)

*re CROCS*

Problem is NPWS are not sympathetic to individual circumstances,most regulations are the blanket variety,there would be individuals willing to go the full distance with enclosures and setups.Most australians i believe would be more frightened of living next to someone with taipans and deathadders,dont think they are real worryed about crocs and the freshwater crocs shouldnt be a problem.If an owner gets bitten thats tough luck,he could get bitten by his death adders and taipans,personal safety is up to individuals not authoritys.The few individuals that want to keep crocs should be allowed to do so on the merrit of idividual applications meeting very strict husbandry guidlines.


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## Rennie (Mar 4, 2006)

Spike14 said:


> but if you live in rural ares you can keep them until they die.



Sounds good in theory but don't they live for like 150 years and keep getting bigger?


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## instar (Mar 4, 2006)

SLACkra said:


> > I am yet to be convinced that they are a seperate species..........I think its just a quirk of the physical environment they are in. It would be interesting to see how some juvies fair if they had access to optimal diet......they may turn out to be "normal"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That may be the case, but take into account cb animals tend to grow faster/bigger than their wild counterparts on account of having it so easy. Imagine how much a small croc would be overfed bysome just due to the novelty of watching it eat. 
Be nice if they are a new, or sub species, but I think megalania's idea has merrit and much is the influence of their particular enviroment, availability of prey etc etc.

I still want a pair though!


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## Jason (Mar 5, 2006)

i would love to get a pygmy freshie, but for now i will keep aiming for a bells phase lacie.


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