# Is taking my pet python out in public illegal [NSW]



## Buggster (Jun 18, 2016)

I've had mixed answers. 
If it is illegal, could you point me in the direction of the actual law?

I don't make a habit of bringing him out- the first time was a complete accident to the pet shop (which had an 'all pets allowed' policy), and at a later date I brought him out so I could better size the rodents I wanted for him.

now it's a fortnightly thing- the employees love the little guy, and (believe it or not), Buggster honestly seems to enjoy his outings.

i don't see any reason it should be however. He's a Stimson's and can't even break the skin of he did bite (and in the 2 years I've had him, not even a strike). My dogs could do a hell of a lot more damage without even trying...


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## Wally (Jun 19, 2016)

Something to consider when displaying snakes in a public environment is that there may be people that aren't comfortable being around them. That being said, it is illegal to display a reptile in public here in Vic without the appropriate licence. I'd imagine NSW would have similar conditions. Check with the relevant department, a quick search on their website should give you the answer.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm not so much as 'displaying' him, as taking him out for a bit of sun.
He's usually tucked himself away in a pocket, or around my neck and in my hood.
Amd honestly, if people are afraid, they can move away. 
I've been told I'm not allowed to walk my dog by a frightening (not to mention rude) member of public on the sole basis she was a German Shepherd.


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## Wally (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm not here to debate the merits of your intentions.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

I've read through the Code of Practise for the Private Keeping of Reptiles (all 38 pages) and did not find any mention of snakes not being allowed in public places.


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## Ramsayi (Jun 19, 2016)

Illegal unless taking to a vet or to a herp society meeting.Even then they have to be bagged while being transported.


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## Iguana (Jun 19, 2016)

Even the act of taking him out somewhere that isn't a vet/herp thing is considered 'displaying', well by the law anyway. Even still, it's just generally safer to no take reptiles in public places anyway. It would be best to clarify the laws by emailing/phoning the NSW wildlife license department. It's better to get a solid yes or no answer, as opposed to continuously taking him out then having the wrong person complain to the wildlife department and possibly getting you in trouble, although this would be an extreme reaction, it's not worth the risk.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

Yeah, I'll probably shoot them an email just to be on the safe side.


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 19, 2016)

Have a look at General Condition 1. of your licence conditions if you're in NSW. The first two sentences couldn't be clearer... What you are doing could easily be construed as showing off, justified by your suggestion that the snake (believe it or not) seems to enjoy his outings.

Jamie


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## kalo1993 (Jun 19, 2016)

Illegal.. unless of course you take it to the beach and throw it around that way you will only get on the news and be praised by social media.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

kalo1993 said:


> Illegal.. unless of course you take it to the beach and throw it around that way you will only get on the news and be praised by social media.



Another thing that got me so confused- this guy is all over the Internet and what he is doing seems to be 'fine'.


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## GBWhite (Jun 19, 2016)

Hey Buggster,

Despite your belief that the snake enjoys its outings, and as Jamie has stated, it is absolutely illegal unless you are transporting it to a vet or herp society. It is also illegal to transport it in a pocket or hoody. To do this also shows a lack of duty of care for your snake. 

George.


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## notechistiger (Jun 19, 2016)

Buggster said:


> Another thing that got me so confused- this guy is all over the Internet and what he is doing seems to be 'fine'.



It appears you didn't look too much into the scenario. The snake was taken by the authorities and his license was revoked.

Although you're not wrong in the sense that people that are scared can move away, please remember there are individuals with debilitating phobias of snakes. It's not fair on them, your animal and every other reptile keeper that does the right thing if you get in trouble by taking your snake for outings. I'm sure there are plenty of people that still think reptile keeping is a stupid hobby and would like to see it stopped... it's definitely preferable not to give them an opportunity to bring something against us. Snakes are not domesticated animals, it's a privilege to keep such amazing Australian wildlife.

and don't get me wrong, I used to be a keeper just like you. Excited to have a cool snake and couldn't understand why everyone else wouldn't want to meet her either. Unfortunately such a thing is against the law and looks terrible for us as a community.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

notechistiger said:


> It appears you didn't look too much into the scenario. The snake was taken by the authorities and his license was revoked.
> 
> Although you're not wrong in the sense that people that are scared can move away, please remember there are individuals with debilitating phobias of snakes. It's not fair on them, your animal and every other reptile keeper that does the right thing if you get in trouble by taking your snake for outings. I'm sure there are plenty of people that still think reptile keeping is a stupid hobby and would like to see it stopped... it's definitely preferable not to give them an opportunity to bring something against us. Snakes are not domesticated animals, it's a privilege to keep such amazing Australian wildlife.
> 
> and don't get me wrong, I used to be a keeper just like you. Excited to have a cool snake and couldn't understand why everyone else wouldn't want to meet her either. Unfortunately such a thing is against the law and looks terrible for us as a community.



fair enough.
what of taking him into a pet store? The store has an 'all pets allowed' policy, and the workers their don't mind me bringing him. 
Would this be a case of each individual store having their own policy, or would I still not be able to bring him?


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## Iguana (Jun 19, 2016)

notechistiger said:


> It appears you didn't look too much into the scenario. The snake was taken by the authorities and his license was revoked.
> 
> Although you're not wrong in the sense that people that are scared can move away, please remember there are individuals with debilitating phobias of snakes. It's not fair on them, your animal and every other reptile keeper that does the right thing if you get in trouble by taking your snake for outings. I'm sure there are plenty of people that still think reptile keeping is a stupid hobby and would like to see it stopped... it's definitely preferable not to give them an opportunity to bring something against us. Snakes are not domesticated animals, it's a privilege to keep such amazing Australian wildlife.
> 
> and don't get me wrong, I used to be a keeper just like you. Excited to have a cool snake and couldn't understand why everyone else wouldn't want to meet her either. Unfortunately such a thing is against the law and looks terrible for us as a community.



A great point, people are always looking for ways to tear the community apart, bringing reptiles into the public is a great way to start. I had no idea that the guy who made the video got his license revoked, shows that a ignoring what appears to be an simple law can have dire consequences.


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## vampstorso (Jun 19, 2016)

Buggster said:


> fair enough.
> what of taking him into a pet store? The store has an 'all pets allowed' policy, and the workers their don't mind me bringing him.
> Would this be a case of each individual store having their own policy, or would I still not be able to bring him?



A petstores policy does not override the law. 
It is a law, not a guideline. 


So plain and simple, no exceptions, unless your licensed animal is going to a vet or a new legal home, you can't be taking them out and about unless you have permission to do so from the government agency your license is with. 

Sure everything might be great and dandy 99% of the time, but that 1%...


*this all seems blunter than intended as I'm tired, just being direct to simplify it, not to be a bum.


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## notechistiger (Jun 19, 2016)

Buggster said:


> fair enough.
> what of taking him into a pet store? The store has an 'all pets allowed' policy, and the workers their don't mind me bringing him.
> Would this be a case of each individual store having their own policy, or would I still not be able to bring him?



Hey Buggster, it's still against your licensing conditions to take them out, as per what Pythoninfinite says earlier in this thread. Certainly unfortunate when it's exciting to show others cool pets, but it's just safer all around to keep them at home =)


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

vampstorso said:


> A petstores policy does not override the law.
> It is a law, not a guideline.
> 
> 
> ...




All good- thanks for the advice.
i think I'll keep our outings limited to my garden from now on! 
Thanks guys


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## saikrett (Jun 19, 2016)




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## Wally (Jun 19, 2016)

For Buggster.


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## Buggster (Jun 19, 2016)

Yum!
my mealie farm is going slowly... Darn cold weather!

'Buggster' is the name of my Stimson's, not sure how much he'd like those!


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## Bluetongue1 (Jun 19, 2016)

[MENTION=42235]Buggster[/MENTION]. Why do they have this licence condition?...

There are a number of reasons why display to the general public is not permitted beyond the mentioned causing of distress to people afraid of snakes. Licence conditions cover ALL types of pet reptiles. Some of these are venomous snakes, others are capable of inflicting a damaging bite (especially monitors and scrub pythons) while some just bite and won’t let go, some can deliver deep scratches, particularly large pythons are capable of serious constriction, especially where kids are involved and there is even the potential issue of passing on zoonoses like salmonella. Then, as pointed out, there is not only the welfare of the people involved but the welfare and security of the animals. 

There is also an equity issue here. Those licensed to display animals to the public have to pay a fee for that license, then outlay the funds required to meet the display standards for safely and security, and then adhere to a further set of conditions in terms of what they can and cannot do. It is only fair that those with pet reptiles should not be able to do the same, without having to meet any costs or conditions. If such were not the case then anyone with a pet collection could start doing public displays.

You could always apply for a temporary exemption to take your snake to the pet shop, like is done for taking a bluey to school for ‘show and tell’. Don’t fancy your chances but if you do get lucky it might be worth considering the potential quarantine-related issues first.


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## SKYWLKR (Jun 20, 2016)

Best way to explain it in todays age and society.

95% of the public see a snake and fear for their life as they cannot tell between venomous or non venomous.

The element of fear is what the law is designed to avoid. And we all know what fear does to any living creature.... human or otherwise.


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## Klaery (Jun 21, 2016)

Some people have a phobia of balloons. Balloons in public will be banned soon  

People don't seem to understand that you personally being free and able to do what you want as long as it does not hurt anybody else, their property or the environment can only exist if you allow others the same - even if it makes you uncomfortable. I guess there is an argument that others being scared of your blue tongue is a form of harm... but really? And in terms of danger, with the exception of a very large python/monitor and of course vens not many rate when compared to a large dog which is perfectly fine when restrained (and so it should be). Of course the owner should be responsible for restraint where necessary.

It is a stupid law and like the majority of stupid laws it exists because people let it. I personally wouldn't ever take reptiles out in public but will always defend the liberties of others.

Anyway rant over haha.


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 21, 2016)

Yes, there are lots of silly laws, and many with regard to the keeping of reptiles. Some of them are just overly bureaucratic, others can't possibly be policed by departments which are understaffed (so why have them), and others could possibly lead to the extinction of some species because they don't allow the collection and captive breeding of threatened populations, but we have to live with them.

Personally I think reptile keeping is a private affair, and don't enjoy seeing snakes and lizards being dragged out to show off in public areas, unless that place and time is specifically reptile-appropriate. A keeper isn't doing his python any favours by taking it to a pet shop on a regular basis, especially if not packed appropriately for travel. Tucked away in a pocket, around your neck or in your hood, are not safe places for your small python to spend time. It could be forgotten and crushed, it could drop onto a hard floor and break its back, or it could just slip away and disappear when you're distracted. For their own safety, reptiles need YOU to be aware of the security they need. They shouldn't be a fashion accessory.

Jamie


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## alichamp (Jun 21, 2016)

I don't own a snake. I am relatively new to reptile keeping still. But I actually like that there are some restrictions on reptile keeping, including taking it out in public. And it's not just because other people might not like them. Outside of the vet, transport, or proper show/exhibit/education/meeting there's really no reason for doing it. 

No, I'm not saying that taking it out is irresponsible, as a blanket statement, but it can encourage *others* towards irresponsible reptile keeping. e.g., 'hey I can get a snake too and take it out with me and then I'll be cool too' or even 'hey I can get a snake and take it out with me and scare the crap out of people, wouldn't that be funny'.

A restriction we are dealing with is in the ACT we have to wait 12 months of keeping, say, a bluey or dragon or turtle before we can get a license to keep a python of a very limited number of species. Yes, annoying but I can appreciate it. It shouldn't be an impulse or fad decision. I have seen many conversations among families of this type at reptile zoos, reptile shops, my only expo visit and even schools. I find myself thinking well thank goodness they won't actually be able to get one!

Australian reptiles are obviously native species and I personally think it's good to encourage them to be kept in a respected and responsible manner.


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## BredliFreak (Jun 21, 2016)

[MENTION=42155]alichamp[/MENTION] isn't it two years? Maybe they've changed it, I've had Lizzie for quite a while now so I probably haven't kept track of the changes.
Also, I think the whole "lizard for a couple of years" thing is silly in some regards, I mean I can understand why they aren't exempt but I don't see why we HAVE to own a lizard/turtle first. Snakes are great because they (for the most part, I don't know about colubrid keeping so maybe there's UVB involved) only need one source of heat (instead of multiple for UVB and whatnot) and they can go longer without food, with less hassle with live food, or yucky cat/dog food and that benefit of keeping snakes shouldn't be discouraged by this law.

Rant over for now.


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## alichamp (Jun 21, 2016)

[MENTION=41799]BredliFreak[/MENTION] yep sorry 2 years, we are 1 down 1 to go...


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## BredliFreak (Jun 21, 2016)

It's a long wait but it is 110% worth it!


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## alichamp (Jun 21, 2016)

Haha loooong wait! In my case it's good because I'm not harrased every single day by my daughter to get one! She knows she has to wait so she goes off and reads her reptile books instead! Apologies to digress your thread [MENTION=42235]Buggster[/MENTION]!


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## andynic07 (Jun 21, 2016)

In regard to silly rules a lot of local council by laws don't even permit keeping of reptiles. My local council bylaws prohibit me keeping any reptile that may injure or worry a person or animal.


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## Jen (Jun 29, 2016)

Not sure if anyone mentioned this - but have you thought about the possible diseases that you could be exposing your snake to out in public - especially in a pet shop? I also would never take mine out in public as there are too many a holes in the world who might follow you home, break in and take your snake, which you have so nicley made obvious to them.


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