# First Aid For Exotic Elapid Bites



## Defective (Dec 2, 2011)

Ok so as much as illegal as it is to have them as a hypothetical what is the best First Aid because what is good for us for our native elapid when we're bitten may not be the same for exotics in the northern hemisphere.

so do we pressure immobilise or not?

can someone do a run through who has preferred experience in this?


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## RichardBing (Dec 2, 2011)

Rule one .......... don't get bitten no need for first aid


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## Defective (Dec 2, 2011)

yeah.....this i understand but people that don't have knowledge of snakes at all and what is an aussie native compared to what is classed as an exotic.


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## XKiller (Dec 2, 2011)

I dont know if its just me, but i cant understand what you want to know? 

weather you want to keep exotic elapids and finding out what to do if you get bitten, or asking people what they have done when they have been bitten?

Eigther way a pressure bandage than hospital is your best bet in case of Elapid bites.... would be a hard one to explain tho.


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## olivehydra (Dec 2, 2011)

I have heard that pressure bandages for some species is sometimes not ideal. Venom that causes severe necrosis (hemotoxic) is sometimes allowed to be diluted through the patient, thus reducing shock. Bites from most American pit vipers, (except for the Mojave rattlesnake) are often only splinted, and not bandaged as we do here for our elapids. I don’t know if this is still current procedure however??


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## Defective (Dec 2, 2011)

ShaneWright said:


> I dont know if its just me, but i cant understand what you want to know?
> 
> weather you want to keep exotic elapids and finding out what to do if you get bitten, or asking people what they have done when they have been bitten?
> 
> Eigther way a pressure bandage than hospital is your best bet in case of Elapid bites.... would be a hard one to explain tho.


on the extreme case hypothetically someone was bitten by an exotic elapid i wish to know how to treat it.



olivehydra said:


> I have heard that pressure bandages for some species is sometimes not ideal. Venom that causes severe necrosis (hemotoxic) is sometimes allowed to be diluted through the patient, thus reducing shock. Bites from most American pit vipers, (except for the Mojave rattlesnake) are often only splinted, and not bandaged as we do here for our elapids. I don’t know if this is still current procedure however??


thanks, this is the stuff i would like to know...i just need to know what snakes specifically....but this is brill!


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## Tsubakai (Dec 19, 2011)

All elapids are treated with pressure+immobilisation whether Australian or exotic. Like someone said above, other venomous families may be treated differently depending on the effect of their venom. For example, pressure bandaging some of the severe necrotic venoms can make the situation much worse eg resulting in loss of limbs. If someone is involved with exotic venomous animals then they should have knowledge on how best to treat a bite from the specific animals they are dealing with - otherwise they are just waiting to nominate for the next round of Darwin awards.


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## longqi (Dec 20, 2011)

Various necrotic type venoms can cause major tissue damage
But they often also cause cardio vascular collapse which can result in death within 30 minutes
Treatment depends on the distance to medical help
In my opinion it is better to slow the flow of the venom using compression bandages than just hope you can keep them breathing with CPR if you are more than 1 hour from help
Some are now using compression above and below the bite but not directly on it
Shock and panic are probably also very responsible for deaths after any snake bite
A bandage and reassurance can go a long way to relieving fears thus reducing blood flow


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## Elapidae1 (Dec 20, 2011)

"Compartment syndrome" is worth googling as it is common and often exacerbated by pressure bandaging.


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## Fuscus (Dec 20, 2011)

It is a worthy question. You could rephrase it "What should you do if you do callouts and encounter an exotic?"


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## longqi (Dec 21, 2011)

Elapidae1 said:


> "Compartment syndrome" is worth googling as it is common and often exacerbated by pressure bandaging.



But Compartment syndrome usually wont kill you
Allowing the venom to travel unheeded can kill you
So many cases overseas are far from medical help
So anything that reduces the movement of the venom may be beneficial
even if it does result in other complications later


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## mmafan555 (Jan 13, 2012)

Depends on the snake...For viper/pit vipers the answer is usually no...It is not a good idea to do a pressure bandage as the venom is highly necrotic and it generally takes a longer amount of time to kill you then an elapid bite...So the best bet is just to go to the hospital immediately. A pressure bandage would be a bad idea for most Vipers/Pit Vipers.

It's also a myth that you should treat ALL elapid snake bites with a pressure bandage...I would say that it is smart to do for the Australian elapids, the African Mambas and also the Asian Kraits...But for Cobras I would say it depends on the type of cobra. A spitting cobra bite causes extreme local/necrotic effects and little/no neurotoxic effects...therefore it would be not at all advisable to use a pressure bandage...Usually the neurotoxic effects in a spitting cobra bite are very minimal but the local necrosis can be extreme...and would be even more extreme with a pressure bandage.

For the more highly neurotoxic types of cobras I would say it depends...Most (non-spitting) cobras (particularly Asian ones) do cause bad necrosis like a viper so it's a very complicated issue...Horrible tissue damage is better than death but it would depend on the particular bite...Some cobras like the Phillipine Cobra cause minimal necrosis/local effects but are extremely neurotoxic so I would definitely advise it for them but for other (non-spitting ) cobras it would be a difficult choice as some are highly necrotic and also highly neurotoxic....and it is definitely a bad idea for spitting cobras.


Then you have to also figure than venom composition/lethality varies regionally in the SAME snake....So there is no standard protocol that would apply to the same snake...there may be significant differences in symptoms in different areas even if it is the same snake.


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## Beard (Jan 13, 2012)

Do you people know nothing.


Cut and bleed the bite site, hang upside down from a tree while drinking whiskey and having someone suck the venom out.

If that doesn't work get a tiger snake to bite you (at first ask it nicely and if it declines, slap it) and hope that the various protiens in each venom counter each other and they become neutralised.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't know why people become so suspicious when questions like this arise - it's an interesting topic and all interesting information. But maybe it's difficult for some to look beyond their own backyard...

J


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## Waterrat (Jan 13, 2012)

If you get bitten and you're the panicky type, use this instrument for first aid treatment. Every herper should have one of these in their survival kit. ......... You won't die from the snake bite.


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## Egernia (Jan 13, 2012)

Another aspect to this is the availability or non-availability of antivenene specific to whatever it is that you have been bitten by. Not much point to correct first aid if ultimately the hospital does not have the right tools to save you.

One of the good things about Australian elapids in Australia is the fact that most hospitals are equipped to deal with bites from our species but rock up to hospital after being bitten by an exotic and you may fall through the gaps in treatment and end up becoming a statistic.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if there have ever been any deaths in Australia from exotic venemous reptiles here? I am assuming from zoo collections here.


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## veenarm (Jan 14, 2012)

I am curious about this as well..

ASSUME you have NO medical stuff anywhere near by, but you have your home/cabin etc...

Would compression/bandage (depending on species i guess now) - get in an ice bath and try to relax.. help at all??

I heard Ice Baths were used for snake bite testing (long time ago) and helped, I mean it's all hypothetical because one thing ma work for someone but not another...


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## -Peter (Jan 15, 2012)

It comes down to individual species. There is no one size fits all for the whole range of venomous creatures. We are lucky here in Australia that we are able to implement a generic first response system for snakebite. Australian facilities that legally hold exotic venomous reptiles are required to have antivenom for those species. When someone is bitten by an illegally held exotic ven the necessary antivenom is sourced from these facilities. 
One would assume that if you held any of these species you would at least look into the correct procedures in the event of a bite. We are talking about people who claim that they should be able to take responsibility for their own actions and safety without the interference of the Nanny State.

ps, I am looking for a female breeding age _Dendroaspis jamesoni_


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## Tassie97 (Jan 15, 2012)

-Peter said:


> ps, I am looking for a female breeding age _Dendroaspis jamesoni_



naughty


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## daniel1234 (Jan 15, 2012)

I love how half the replies assume one keeps or intends to keep exotics. One of the more interesting thiings for me is the venom of our elapids so why would I not want to know about that of exotics in the samw way as I want to know what other herps exist across the globe.


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## cadwallader (Jan 15, 2012)

good luck if anyone get bite i would love to see pics especially if it have cytotoxic venoms, they are crazy stuff... not the other hemotoxins and neurotoxins are bad enough


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## Defective (Jan 15, 2012)

wow, thanks! ok so what peaked my interest was that a st. john's superintendent wanted to know what should be done...i figured i'd ask here


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## BallaratWildlife (Feb 1, 2012)

when i used to care to the reptiles at ballarat reptile park, it was company policy not to bandage bites from the uracoan rattlers, siamese and mozabique spitters, or asian cobras due to a sevear necrotic effects and b the fact antivenien was roughly 10 mins away. hope this helps


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## Goppy78 (Feb 2, 2012)

Does anyone know the frequency of this happening in Australia?


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## Creed (Feb 2, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I don't know why people become so suspicious when questions like this arise - it's an interesting topic and all interesting information. But maybe it's difficult for some to look beyond their own backyard...
> 
> J



Hmmm.....so what exactly do you know about this back yard of mine.........especially in relation to exotics that definately don't not exist? :shock:


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## Snowman (Feb 2, 2012)

Fuscus said:


> It is a worthy question. You could rephrase it "What should you do if you do callouts and encounter an exotic?"



Exactly! And if it's a call out it's escaped from someones collection, so it may have possibly bit a child or someone who didn't know what it was (or didnt see it) etc... As long as people are keeping venomous exotics (which they are) then it is a very valid question to ask.


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## JasonL (Feb 2, 2012)

If anyone ever gets bitten by a Russells viper, you should cut your arm off first then bandage the wound.... saves yourself alot of trouble lol


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## Tassie97 (Feb 2, 2012)

JasonL said:


> If anyone ever gets bitten by a Russells viper, you should cut your arm off first then bandage the wound.... saves yourself alot of trouble lol


so if i get bit on the foot do i still cut off arm? *scratches head*


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## JasonL (Feb 2, 2012)

what herper gets bitten on the foot lol


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## Tassie97 (Feb 2, 2012)

JasonL said:


> what herper gets bitten on the foot lol


one that steps on a russlles viper


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## Poggle (Feb 2, 2012)

Tassie97 said:


> one that steps on a russlles viper



-_- Russels viper like chuck norris. You don't tread on it, it places itself under your foot -_-


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