# Suggestion for noobs' questions.



## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

FIrstly, please forgive me for restarting a topic that has been closed by Slateman but I have a suggestion regarding noob type questions that obviously anger some of the "more knowlegable" people on this site. I personally see no harm and encourage new people to ask questions, and yes, no question is a stupid one (IMO). I'm probably one of the noobies that anger some of the experts as I tend to shoot from the hip sometimes and post answers based on experience, not from "formal knowledge."

My suggestion:

When anyone first joins site, the email confirming registration should contain a statement similar to, "General questions regarding reptiles such as (experts to decide what subjects are to be included) must be posted in the "Noobie forum." Any post to this forum should be automatically emailed to the "experts" on this site and should only be answered by them. This would prevent the originator of the post receiving "stupid answers" by the less informed such as myself. A good way to ensure only "expert" answers would be to lock the thread immediately after the initial post. The "experts" could be granted special "expert" privileges, which would allow them to post in the locked thread. 

This is just a suggestion and not intended to start a debate or argument.


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## mcloughlin2 (Apr 22, 2008)

Good suggestion but there are some potential problems.

At what point do we deem someone is an expert? Will the chosen people be happy to answer a dozen emails a day, when thy will all be based on the same similar topics?


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## Chimera (Apr 22, 2008)

I think a better suggestion is for everyone to take a step back and not take online forums too seriously. I think the welcome email should potentially include a welcome PM explaining to people that there are are members with a range of experience and that before accepting information as gospel they should consult a reference or a verifiable authority on the topic.

I also feel that given they are sponsors, new members should be directed to Australian Reptile Keeper Publications as a foundation reference.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

It's already been deem by site administrators that anyone that has been a site member (financial I think) is regarded as an expert.

I'm sure some "experts" will be unhappy with the amount of emails they will receive, but with rank, comes responsibility. Maybe experts that do not wish to pass information should have their expert status removed. - I'm not really qualified to comment here. Maybe separate the experts into 2 categories; the helpful and the hostile - the latter being those not willing to share their knowledge.


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## natrix (Apr 22, 2008)

In essence it's not a bad idea spilota , but as mcloughlin says --at what point does someone
become an expert.
I was wanting to read about cooling diamonds recently & found wildly different opinions on the
subject , many from different sites & countries from people that had bred diamonds for over a
decade , each convinced of their rightness.
Good on you for having an idea though , it's not the easiest of things to solve.


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## Hsut77 (Apr 22, 2008)

I think a welcome email with some FAQ's would be a really good idea. It could include tips on seaching for info, directions to sticky's and the Wiki and could also include a list of recommended reading' books for people new to the hobby. It could also clearly outline the general consensus on such topics as 'Hybrids', live feeding and other subject matter that new members usually get slammed for. Just some thoughts.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Apr 22, 2008)

some people that are noobs could have come from other forums and be really experienced, so it makes it hard. not talking about myself either lol


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## Riley (Apr 22, 2008)

i agree with Hsut77.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

Riley said:


> i agree with Hsut77.



So do I  Great suggestions.


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## natrix (Apr 22, 2008)

Hsut77 said:


> I think a welcome email with some FAQ's would be a really good idea. It could include tips on seaching for info, directions to sticky's and the Wiki and could also include a list of recommended reading' books for people new to the hobby. It could also clearly outline the general consensus on such topics as 'Hybrids', live feeding and other subject matter that new members usually get slammed for. Just some thoughts.



yeah that's a good idea .......think I'd miss the hybrid debates/wars though


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> some people that are noobs could have come from other forums and be really experienced, so it makes it hard. not talking about myself either lol




So true rh1993. Also, people have differing views about their depth of knowledge/experience. It is normally the people that think they know everything that know the least. 

I have noticed that the people who have responded to this thread are all "noobies."

I've also noticed that everyone who has responded has done so in a civilized manner  Thanks guys/gals.


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## Riley (Apr 22, 2008)

also adding on to what Hsut77 said, for all the 'newbie' questions that have already been asked, the 'experts' should add the FAQ and answers to the wiki and so they can look there; no more probs! 
imo the wiki could help out a lot here and should be used more


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## snakecharma (Apr 22, 2008)

i think there definatly needs to be a section in the welcome email explaining the search funtion and how to use it but i still dont think this is gonna help 

secondly i dont understand how being a financial member for a certain amount of time makes you an expert lol although i know there are alot of experts on here but just cause ya pay $20 does that give you expert status. Im my eyes not really 

thirdly there is all this 'up in arms' action in regards to newb questions what i have found on alot of other forums is, if you want to answer by all means but if you dont then just get out of the thread and if the 'newb' dont get any reply's then this will force them to use the search funtion (or possibly make another thread and another and another lol) so what i do is just simply not go into such threads 

anyhoo just my 2 cents


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## ryanharvey1993 (Apr 22, 2008)

but they could also just put a section called beginner questions where they can ask all this stuff. if they did stuff like that they wouldnt have many problems, maybe that section plus a gecko section a python section elapid section and wild herp photography section and so on, just my opinion and ideas tho


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## Hsut77 (Apr 22, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> I have noticed that the people who have responded to this thread are all "noobies."



Hey I'm only six months away from being an 'old fart' :lol:, so you are either a NOOB or an old fart no inbetween :lol:


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## Jen (Apr 22, 2008)

Maybe a popup saying "did you search first" before a thread can be created, I am a noob, and have only a bit of knowledge, but i am always happy to share it with those that have genuinly tried to help themselves, those that are simply to lazy to use the search function (and are proud of the fact :shock: ) irritate me. Having been on this site for nearly 2 years, it does get annoying to see the same questions come up again and again, when a simple search would answer them.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

Hsut77 said:


> Hey I'm only six months away from being an 'old fart' :lol:, so you are either a NOOB or an old fart no inbetween :lol:




You joined site a day before me you old so and so


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## ryanharvey1993 (Apr 22, 2008)

wow 8 months till im an old fart, and im only a kid  life is going to fast lol


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## Hsut77 (Apr 22, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> You joined site a day before me your old so and so



Arrrr, but I only have half the number of posts.


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## natrix (Apr 22, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> You joined site a day before me your old so and so



I'm a noob & an old fart all rolled into one , I've been avidly reading books on snakes for 30+ years but only started keeping a year ago (I currently have 7 pythons) due to constantly being on the road or overseas for extended periods with my work.


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## Jen (Apr 22, 2008)

Hang on, why are the "old farts" getting angry in the first place? They have to actively go to the thread to read it, why don't they just ignore it if they don't want to help?


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## Chimera (Apr 22, 2008)

natrix said:


> I'm a noob & an old fart all rolled into one , I've been avidly reading books on snakes for 30+ years but only started keeping a year ago (I currently have 7 pythons) due to constantly being on the road or overseas for extended periods with my work.



Similar to my old thread http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/knowledge-verses-experience-51924


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## snakecharma (Apr 22, 2008)

when your old it takes twice as long to do anything maybe this is why they are upset lol 

cheerz


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## natrix (Apr 22, 2008)

Jen said:


> Hang on, why are the "old farts" getting angry in the first place? They have to actively go to the thread to read it, why don't they just ignore it if they don't want to help?



That's right , & what does it tell you ?.............

That if an O.F does log onto what for them is a 'stupid-thread' & answers in an antagonistic or
sarky manner , then they're only there to assert their experienced-old timer-expert-eyerolling-condescending-arrogance . probably because they're trying to impress other guys that they think are even slightly ahead of them on the olde-snakey-scholars & beer club imaginary ladder.


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## Jen (Apr 22, 2008)

or up their post count :lol:


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## natrix (Apr 22, 2008)

Chimera said:


> Similar to my old thread http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-herps/knowledge-verses-experience-51924



I read it , good thread . 
I'd have to agree that there's no substitute for experience , there's also no substitute for being able to read , retain , & more importantly , extrapolate from reading a whole lot of stuff written by different experts with different , sometimes very different, points of view.

The thing in your thread I don't quite get with is the title ---knowledge V's Experience.
To me there is no V's ....the two obviously go together hand in hand.


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## lycanthropica (Apr 22, 2008)

I'm a total Noob and even i get a bit frustrated when you see 50 threads saying 'what is the best substrate' i don't think people really read the FAQ's or search old threads enought. and yes it's just a forum so can't be taken as gosple. 

i have found as a first time keeper and witht he impending arrival of my bredli i have been a bit excited/anxious about my set up and although i am sure it is fine i feel the urge to post a lot of dumb things, tho i try not to 

ha ha ha ha. the short of it is that i think people need to have use search more, maybe an educations blurb or pop up like Jen said.

also if people see good advice being givein adding it to the FAQ or the tips section?


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## Chimera (Apr 22, 2008)

natrix said:


> I read it , good thread .
> I'd have to agree that there's no substitute for experience , there's also no substitute for being able to read , retain , & more importantly , extrapolate from reading a whole lot of stuff written by different experts with different , sometimes very different, points of view.
> 
> The thing in your thread I don't quite get with is the title ---knowledge V's Experience.
> To me there is no V's ....the two obviously go together hand in hand.



I was referring to the weight people put on the 2. Some people have the latter without the first.


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## Tatelina (Apr 22, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> It's already been deem by site administrators that anyone that has been a site member (financial I think) is regarded as an expert.
> 
> I'm sure some "experts" will be unhappy with the amount of emails they will receive,* but with rank, comes responsibility. *


Pffft. Are you serious?
Firstly anyone can become a financial member of this site and secondly just because an experienced herper pays to be able to post for sale ads on a forum does not mean they are 'responsible' for helping people time and time again.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> Pffft. Are you serious?
> Firstly anyone can become a financial member of this site and secondly just because an experienced herper pays to be able to post for sale ads on a forum does not mean they are 'responsible' for helping people time and time again.



I love the Pffft expression - it always makes me laugh.

I don't think the "expert" experienced herpers are obligated to answer anything, hence my suggestion to separate the experts into 2 sections; helpful and hostile. Maybe sellers paying their fees to be sellers should be just that - allow them access to the for sale section only


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## Magpie (Apr 22, 2008)

Jen said:


> Hang on, why are the "old farts" getting angry in the first place? They have to actively go to the thread to read it, why don't they just ignore it if they don't want to help?


 

Most people are not getting angry.
It just gets really hard when every time you log in there is several thousand new posts, most of them repeating things other people have said.
It also gets very frustrating, leading to anger when people give bad advice and other people agree with them for the sake of it.
It's not the questions in themselves that i the problem, i talk to many of the "angry old farts" regularly and all of them would rather a question was asked than an animal suffer. It's the frequency of the questions and the quality of the answers.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

Magpie said:


> Most people are not getting angry.
> It just gets really hard when every time you log in there is several thousand new posts, most of them repeating things other people have said.
> It also gets very frustrating, leading to anger when people give bad advice and other people agree with them for the sake of it.
> It's not the questions in themselves that i the problem, i talk to many of the "angry old farts" regularly and all of them would rather a question was asked than an animal suffer. It's the frequency of the questions and the quality of the answers.



Do you think it could be partially due to the fact that herpetology, or more correctly the collecting of reptiles is becoming more popular by the day and the number of new members increases proportionally to that growth? Several thousand new posts :shock:, come on, I've told you a billion times today not to exaggerate 

Granted, most people are not getting angry, but those that do are usually the most vocal about being angry. When something annoys me, I ignore it. 

When I eventually grow up and become an old fart, I'm still going to offer my experience based vice formal herpetological knowledge.


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## peterjohnson64 (Apr 22, 2008)

I think this is a good idea SV but implementation, as has been stated, will be somewhat difficult. A couple of observations though. Lots of people have commented that just because someone has been a member on this site for 2 plus years doesn't make them an expert. I totally agree with that comment (take me for example). However, I very rarely see a "veteran" member make a comment in a thread unless they feel that they can contribute to that thread. An example here was the recent thread on the GTP's living wild in Sydney. There were two veterans who make few posts but felt they could contribute to this thread. Their answers, along with my comments that they are two people quoted as references in Greg Maxwells book, go lost in all the other stuff so their very valuable contribution was eventually worth virtually nothing.

Also, there is now a verterans forum where it appears that you ahve to have been a member for 2 years to post. Why not have the noobs question bit only able to be answered by 2 years plus members. I really can't see these members making replies that they do not believe they can contribute to.

On other sites it is also customary to attach your name to your posts so people know who you are. I also accept that people may want to stay anonymous and again I come back to the people posting in the Chondros thread.


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## Hickson (Apr 22, 2008)

Lets just clear up one thing:

The Old Farts section is NOT to separate experts from Newbs.

It separates people who have been on here for two years or more, from those who haven't. There are Newbies who have been on here for three years, who know how to behave in the threads, and know who the real experts are so they don't argue with them.

Yes, like Mags said, it is frustrating to see the same old Newbie questions filling up the forums, but most of us understand that. As Peter said, what we get angry about is when we try to help someone, and some 2-minute armchair expert argues with you. Or the Newbie ignores your advice because someone suggested something else stupid. Sometimes you wonder why you even bother.



Hix


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## Tatelina (Apr 22, 2008)

spilota_variegata said:


> I love the Pffft expression - it always makes me laugh.
> 
> I don't think the "expert" experienced herpers are obligated to answer anything, hence my suggestion to separate the experts into 2 sections; helpful and hostile. Maybe sellers paying their fees to be sellers should be just that - allow them access to the for sale section only



I used that expression because I physically did it when I read what you posted 

Yes perhaps the experts should be seperated..and the people who don't fit into either newb or expert catergory and continue on their merry way.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

Hix, I can see where you're coming from and I applaude whomever thought of the old fats's forum.

One thing that does perplex me is the fact that the newbies cannot post to a forum which is only answerable by the old farts. If this was possible, it would eliminate the possibility of being challenged by a greenhorn (better name than a newbie or noob). I still think a forum should be created which allows anyone to post initially but can only be answered by the Obi Wan Kenobes of this site.

How many replies have we had so far and 100% civility... That's impressive in itself 



Hix said:


> Lets just clear up one thing:
> 
> The Old Farts section is NOT to separate experts from Newbs.
> 
> ...


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## Chimera (Apr 22, 2008)

I can see why a lot of the real old timers are getting frustrated with the simple questions that are posted on this site. There is a wealth of information published in just about every media on herpetoculture and many questions can be answered with only basic research and a limited budget. Many old timers had to learn these lessons the hard way.

I do not consider myself an expert, nor exceedingly experienced, but I have found little to no need to ask questions in these forums as there are so many other ways to get information that is a higher quality than is generally espoused in responses to questions.

As I have previously stated, we have a sponsor on this site who produces the best introductory herpetoculture texts on the market. Any one of these would answer about 90% of newbie question so why not send a PM on signup with a book list of what is available stating that this will answer your basic questions.

I get into trouble on occasions for this but many questions can be answered with the phrase "read a book".


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## Alleycatz71 (Apr 22, 2008)

I would of thought there was no such thing as a dumb question or a noob question. It is all about sharing experiences and learning no matter how much of an expert you think you are. Someone can research their litlle heart out but there is so much crap on the internet it is hard to sift through what is real and what isn't. Thank you to all of you who took the time to assist me in my questions


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## lycanthropica (Apr 22, 2008)

i think some people find asking a question (even one that can be easily researched) as a way of first making contact with others on the site. (not saying that i do this, but people definitley do. like the popular movie pick up lines, always questions)
as newbies they might not realise that is it frustrating to others.

and yes i know there is an introcductions section.
i will say even tho i am very new and should be all understanding i do find a million questions about substrate and is this tank big enough frustrating when these answers are easily available in books and faq's.


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## NotoriouS (Apr 22, 2008)

Hmmmm, IMO all this creation of a "them" and "us" atmosphere on this site isn't healthy. I've been a member for almost a year now, and I love APS. I have received much help from the various members here and have learnt a lot from the experiences people share here. Everyone is a "noob" as you guys call it at some point in time. However, I don't think there is a need the classify people. Yes, there are people who have more experience than others and yes most of them take out their time to answer the questions and guide the people who are less experienced. Rather than complaining about those who do not help, appreciate the ones that do, it's not like they're getting paid for it. I have many of the answers for the questions I was looking for in the FAQ and through Wiki, but what may seem like a question that has already been answered, may be something more specific to that individuals needs. 

Just my 2 cents - IMO this topic needs to be buried, let's move on and help each other where possible.

Cheers,

Ossam


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## Slateman (Apr 22, 2008)

My God I should say GOT.
You people love this topic.
Just have your opinions and whing and arguments. If they are carried in polite way, who cares.

Quote.
what we get angry about is when we try to help someone, and some 2-minute armchair expert argues with you. Or the Newbie ignores your advice because someone suggested something else stupid. Sometimes you wonder why you even bother.

I think that by now all people know exactly how to use internet and what information to take seriously and what to ignore. So far I have no problem with bad advice on this site. If that happen, somebody always came with proper one and all is corrected quickly.

IT IS INTERNET PUBLIC FORUM we talking about. Not encyclopedia.

This is my last post on this subject, It is pointless to discuss this any further..

Just wander to who you guys would sell your hatchies if new members will leave this site.


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## Timotei (Apr 22, 2008)

"Noobs" should be able to ask questions about whatever they like - I'd much rather they ask whether sandpaper is a suitable sloughing aid for snakes rather than simply doing it.


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## Chappy (Apr 22, 2008)

Slateman said:


> My God I should say GOT.
> You people love this topic.
> Just have your opinions and whing and arguments. If they are carried in polite way, who cares.
> 
> ...


Soooooooo True Slateman .


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## Noongato (Apr 22, 2008)

To possibly solve the problem, make the newbies have to make their first post in a 1 particular forum (Newbies Only Introductions etc), which states in the title that before starting a thread to do a search etc, as most newbies wouldnt think of that or know how. Make it always Stay On Top so it cant get lost, and have lockdown on their account until they make their first post there. That should work. Maybe.


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## MrBredli (Apr 22, 2008)

The easiest solution by far would be to have thorough answers written up for all the common questions and have them added to the Wiki. Whenever the question gets asked again the person can simply be directed to the answers contained in the Wiki.


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## bcurko (Apr 22, 2008)

Not that i am by any means an expert and trust me i know i'm not . But can their be some sort of Real obvious sign for noobies to read. You look at some threads by noobies and their spelling is unbelievable and they think by making their font different and colouring it that we aren't going to notice? 

For example Pasted from http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/...e-allright-for-my-first-children-python-81121

*is this cage allright for my first children python* I AM BUYING A CHILDRENS PYTHON SOON AS I GET EVERYTHINK IN ORDER
I AM GANA BUILD MY OWN CAGE WITH MY DAD
P.S WE LOVE TO BIULD
and would the heat from the heat mate go thou the wooden floor.?
IS IT A GOOD CAGE FOR A CHILDRENS PYTHON...?
WIL IT KEEP THE HEAT IN WELL...?
What kind of post is that? Surely members still have the brain capacity to at least spell correctly. I love this site but the noobie threads are getting annoying i dont post because i get worried that i will be flamed. But otherwise the site is great except for spam.
Brenton out


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

I've always lived by the philosophy, "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones".

The inability to spell is not a deliberate choice. Granted, there are spell checkers


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## bcurko (Apr 22, 2008)

Thats exactly my point why isn't the spell checker used more often. It's there for a reason! anyways im off my rant before i get abused flamed and sworn at...


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 22, 2008)

What can I say? I thought this thread would have died a long time ago.


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## natrix (Apr 23, 2008)

bcurko said:


> Not that i am by any means an expert and trust me i know i'm not . But can their be some sort of Real obvious sign for noobies to read. You look at some threads by noobies and their spelling is unbelievable and they think by making their font different and colouring it that we aren't going to notice?
> 
> 
> That's ridiculous , ok here we go......
> ...


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## amazonian (Apr 23, 2008)

What if we just dont let anyone else join the site?
Then todays armchair experts & sandpit mafia won't have to tolerate Newbies at all. The site can be 1 big egotistical family at last. Finally just us know it alls who can post yahoo news items & discuss good stuff like underage drinking on a regular basis. Oh fun times to be had when not bothered by newby questions. Just imagine the peace when we can stop answering "whats a good 1st snake" and start answering things like "for or against social drug use and other illegal activities". (Yes I am taking a stab at the underage drinking thread)




Oh but wait then who will we have to throw mud at?
(I guess we could pick on each others spelling & grammar, thats always been fun)


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## Earthling (Apr 23, 2008)

Not sure if these have been all listed but...

Problems: 

new members may have kept herps for years and be very knowledgable about herps etc.
not all new members post 'newbie' questions
which 'experts' will seriously want to answer newbie questions repeatedly?
who is an 'expert'?
are we being elitist?
if i joined a site which has something like you propose Spilota, I would leave...who likes to be treated like a second class citizen/idiot?
Why the hell is an idea being proposed that takes away from peoples choice? :shock:
"Choice? What choice?" you say.
The choice to take control of ones life and CHOOSE what to read and what not to read!
If you are not taking control of your life and choosing what to read and what not to read, Im guessing that we will have to hear from you complainers about newbie questions again.....if we choose to allow ourselves........:lol::lol::lol:


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## grimbeny (Apr 23, 2008)

My main request would be to get rid of different font colours and sizes.


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## Krystal (Apr 23, 2008)

MrBredli said:


> The easiest solution by far would be to have thorough answers written up for all the common questions and have them added to the Wiki. Whenever the question gets asked again the person can simply be directed to the answers contained in the Wiki.



Being a noob myself, I think this would be the best solution so far. I know it has been tried, but maybe the experts/old farts would like to write up a simple guideline/FAQ to the most common questions with the most common answers? 
Eg: Q. What substrate should I use for my new snake? 
A. Newspaper or butchers paper are the most commonly used substrate as it is cheap, easy to keep clean and causes the least problems for your reptile.

Of course there are so many differing opinions on how to keep reptiles but it could be a general overview which could have links to other informative threads.

As MrBredli suggested, rather than everyone posting what they use, the first post could be the link. Hopefully they will read it to find their answer and think to read it next time before asking another "frequently asked question".


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