# Differences Between Atheton Jungle and Jungle Carpet Pythons?



## Arakssor (May 10, 2010)

I have recently gotten a Atherton Jungle Carpet Python, have had him just over 2 weeks. After researching Carpet Pythons I decided to go with a Jungle Carpet as they are the smaller of the Carpet Pythons. I was told that they can be snappy and even fussy when eating rats. So far he is nothing like I was told, he loves being held, he didn't think twice of eating a rat. When I got him I got a record of his eating schedule and hatch date, it also listed him as a Atherton Jungle Carpet Python. I just assumed this meant he was from that area, but yesterday I found out that there a few differences between Athertons and Jungles, especially when it comes to size. I am hoping someone can tell me how big they get and other differences. I am completely happy with him as he is a great snake and has great colors even though he isn't a black and gold.


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## Bec137 (May 10, 2010)

i have no idea im sorry, but a friend of mine paid almost $2000 for her jungle, that seems obscene to me, she doesnt know exactly what kind of jungle she is though. does anyone know? she is about 5 years old and is only about 4ft long and very skinny.


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## fuegan13 (May 10, 2010)

atherton is a locality, ie. where the snake originated from. they are still classed as the same species, however like you said there are some differences, size and colour mainly.

for example my palmerston jungles are generally smaller than athertons, and athertons have a reputation of being one of the duller localities (not always the case, i have seen some nice athertons) 

as for exact size i think i read that athertons can reach a bit over 2 metres ?? not 100% sure on that thou, im sure someone else can confirm exact sizes

as for temperament, the general consensus is that jungles are snappy and picky, my personal experience is they are snappy at first but calm super quick. there are always exceptions to any 'rule'. one of mine is the best feeder out of all my snakes, and the other refuses rats but will take just about anything else. just remember that each snake will have its own personality and likes/dislikes


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## syeph8 (May 10, 2010)

athertons tend to be a bit bigger (not exactly sure of fully grown adult size) but tend to handle a lot better also. i have a "kuranda" (which i think is actually just atherton... but thats for another day... or if anyone else has heard of kuranda locale, please let me know) and im guessing by his current size and the size of the older siblings that he will get to around 7 foot.


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## Bec137 (May 10, 2010)

i have no idea im sorry, but a friend of mine paid almost $2000 for her jungle, that seems obscene to me, she doesnt know exactly what kind of jungle she is though. does anyone know? she is about 5 years old and is only about 4ft long and very skinny.


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## Waterrat (May 10, 2010)

IMO these locality carpets should be taken with great reservation. The colour & patterns are incredibly variable (for all of the locale) and no one can really point out to a carpet and say this is such & such with certainty. There are few people who kept their locality lines pure but given the grown of the hobby, many of the locality specific carpets lost their integrity because they were crossed over the years. All in all, Atherton, Kuranda, Julatten, Cape York, etc., carpets are just the name, nothing else unless you caught the animals your self.
To say that Atherton carpets grow bigger, one must first be familiar with the place. The town of Atherton is not in the middle of rainforest, it is surrounded by agricultural land for miles around, so where would you find an Atherton carpet? Mareeba way, towards Yangaburra or Herberton way? I have seen humangus carpet at Lake Barrine and at Milla Milla, quite a long way from Atherton. Unusual? I don't think so.


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## syeph8 (May 10, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> IMO these locality carpets should be taken with great reservation. The colour & patterns are incredibly variable (for all of the locale) and no one can really point out to a carpet and say this is such & such with certainty. There are few people who kept their locality lines pure but given the grown of the hobby, many of the locality specific carpets lost their integrity because they were crossed over the years. All in all, Atherton, Kuranda, Julatten, Cape York, etc., carpets are just the name, nothing else unless you caught the animals your self.
> To say that Atherton carpets grow bigger, one must first be familiar with the place. The town of Atherton is not in the middle of rainforest, it is surrounded by agricultural land for miles around, so where would you find an Atherton carpet? Mareeba way, towards Yangaburra or Herberton way? I have seen humangus carpet at Lake Barrine and at Milla Milla, quite a long way from Atherton. Unusual? I don't think so.


 
i woould have though malanda or ravenshoe, they are part of the atherton tablelands arent they? ravenshoe has some nice rorest.


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## Waterrat (May 10, 2010)

I thought "Atherton carpet" specifically refers to specimens from the Atherton area, not the whole tablelands. Correct me if I am wrong.


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## syeph8 (May 10, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I thought "Atherton carpet" specifically refers to specimens from the Atherton area, not the whole tablelands. Correct me if I am wrong.


 
as you said, atherton doesnt have much in the way of jungle.. wouldnt imagine there would be any round there.. i am very happy to concede being wrong on this one, i just always interpreted it as tablelands.


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## bobby2 (May 10, 2010)

I think the name is dubious - you can pick one if you want to classify its colours/size as similar to a particular area but unless the breeder you got it from has been specifically breeding from that area (with proof) I guess you can't be sure. I think it's true what watterrat says about the 'atherton' subspecies being confined primarily to the atherton area - they are characterised by their size which is apparently due to the cleared open land there as opposed to the dense forest of the other subspecies - then again, I have heard people say 'tableland carpets' as an analogy to 'atherton' so I can't be sure - once again I think it's one of those dubious things. 
Also, with the snappy nature - it's often linked to jungles in general but it's more specifically linked with the black and gold subspecies, which explains why yours is not snappy (I have an 'atherton' and she was a tad snappy as a juv but now she's as dopey as a bunny.) People will often refer to 'athertons' with that faint yellow oliv-ie colour (like mine, and like the typical depictions of athertons) as honey jungles, not just for their colour, but their temperament - very placid.
So to answer your question, atherton is a subspecies (ifyou like) of the jungle carpet - they grow larger than other jungle subspecies due to their adaption to light eucalypt woodlands as opposed to dense rainforest - a good size estimate on your snake would be around 1.8m - 2.1m max. She's more placid because this is typical of the athertons and mine similarly had less trouble swapping to rats than i anticipated
I'm really excited for you!! put up some pics! i'd love to see - I know people often associate athertons with being the 'dull' jungles next to the b&g palmerstons etc but i have actually developed a preference for them over the more vivid ones - especially the ones with nice patterns


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## Arakssor (May 10, 2010)

Here you go bobby2. This is my first time posting pic so I hope it works. First 3 were taken the day I got him, last one was taken tonight, first time I have seen him use his tree or whatever you want to call it. Last pic shows how dirty the outside of the glass to strikers (my Spotted Pythons) enclosure is, damn nieces and nephews always dirtying it lol.


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## bobby2 (May 11, 2010)

very nice, he's gorgeous!! as i said, i'm partial toward the athertons


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## Waterrat (May 11, 2010)

bobby2 said:


> I think the name is dubious - you can pick one if you want to classify its colours/size as similar to a particular area but unless the breeder you got it from has been specifically breeding from that area (with proof) I guess you can't be sure. I think it's true what watterrat says about the 'atherton' subspecies being confined primarily to the atherton area - they are characterised by their size which is apparently due to the cleared open land there as opposed to the dense forest of the other subspecies - then again, I have heard people say 'tableland carpets' as an analogy to 'atherton' so I can't be sure - once again I think it's one of those dubious things.
> Also, with the snappy nature - it's often linked to jungles in general but it's more specifically linked with the black and gold subspecies, which explains why yours is not snappy (I have an 'atherton' and she was a tad snappy as a juv but now she's as dopey as a bunny.) People will often refer to 'athertons' with that faint yellow oliv-ie colour (like mine, and like the typical depictions of athertons) as honey jungles, not just for their colour, but their temperament - very placid.
> So to answer your question, atherton is a subspecies (ifyou like) of the jungle carpet - they grow larger than other jungle subspecies due to their adaption to light eucalypt woodlands as opposed to dense rainforest - a good size estimate on your snake would be around 1.8m - 2.1m max. She's more placid because this is typical of the athertons and mine similarly had less trouble swapping to rats than i anticipated
> I'm really excited for you!! put up some pics! i'd love to see - I know people often associate athertons with being the 'dull' jungles next to the b&g palmerstons etc but i have actually developed a preference for them over the more vivid ones - especially the ones with nice patterns



Bobby, there are few things I see differently but don't take it as an argument.
Atheton carpet in not a subspecies of jungle carpet. They are both the same subspecies _M.s. cheynei _(i.e. subspecies of _spilota_). If you want to separate the Atherton carpet from the rest, then call it an _"M.s. cheynei _Atherton morph". The rainforests on the A. tableland are very fragmented but there is little, if any eucalypt forest there. The nearest would be on the Herberton ranges. In most cases, snakes evolve large body size as response to food source available to them. For example, Chappell Island tigers are huge because they feed on muttonbird chicks and nothing else. We would have to go way back in history of the Atherton tableland to understand if there ever was a similar evolutionary pressure. As I said, you do find very large carpets (jungles) way away from Atherton.
Nasty disposition? I dare to say that all the wild jungles are snappy. You would never free-handle the ones from Julatten - for example.


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## AUSHERP (May 11, 2010)

alot of people call athertons, honey jungle because of the honey coloured pattern they have (surprise surprise) heres my male at 1 year... as far as i know they get to coastal size.....


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## PicklePants (May 13, 2010)

those photos of George really don't do him any justice matt. i must say, i am a tad bit jealous of your two babies


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## bobby2 (May 13, 2010)

yer waterrat your right, i didn't know what to call the atherton label so I just said sub species, i'll say morph nxt time.


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## saltuarius (Feb 6, 2011)

After having seen hundreds of jungles in the wild over the last 8 years i regard any "jungle" that gets over 4 feet in length to be an intergrade with coastals. You typically get these large somewhat dull individuals in ecotone areas where the dominant vegetation is giving way to something different ie. wet schlerophyll rainforest giving way to eucalyptus dominated open woodland/dry scherophyll. You can still get coastals away from the coast and you can get them at quite high altitudes. I regard the large athertons as high altitude coastals and not as jungles. Its all a mess really so who knows.


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## Klaery (Feb 6, 2011)

I have what was sold to me as a 'pure' atherton tablelands jungle about 8 years ago. He is big and friendly though does have one hell of a feeding response.


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## Airlie (Feb 6, 2011)

I had a atherton striped jungle once and she was really nice. Dull grey colour and alot larger than jungles. Even thou the are classed as cheynei i would rather breed they to a NQ coastal morelia mc dowelli than a jungle.


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## snakelady-viper (Feb 6, 2011)

My male Athertons are 8 years old and 6 feet long the females are about 8 feet long all very placid and love their rats


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## timfina (Dec 15, 2011)

*Tully Jungle*

I have a Tully Jungle and she is very nervous and is a smaller snake and pale in comparison to other Tully jungles i have seen . I think it is correct in saying they vary so much in size , colour , temperment .


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