# Water Dragons Evolving at a Pace We Can Witness



## Nero Egernia (Feb 10, 2018)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-10/water-dragons-are-evolving-at-a-pace-we-can-witness/9418686

An interesting read. Urbanization will probably effect many more species. I wonder if there'll soon be a profound difference between city born and bred compared to populations living in remote areas?


----------



## Foozil (Feb 10, 2018)

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 10, 2018)

I think the very last line sums it up well... _"But by surviving, and even thriving, they will eventually lose what it is to be defined as an eastern water dragon."_
[doublepost=1518243870,1518243728][/doublepost]Watching the live stream feed now... Awesome!


----------



## Imported_tuatara (Feb 10, 2018)

Pretty cool! Can't wait to have tree-water dragons in 10 years. Lol


----------



## pinefamily (Feb 10, 2018)

I read that article earlier today. Very interesting.
But is it evolving or adapting?


----------



## Foozil (Feb 10, 2018)

pinefamily said:


> But is it evolving or adapting?


I don't really think its either. If its adapting, what would "sign language" help them adapt to? I'm sure these guys and many other lizards used it way before Brisbane existed.


----------



## pinefamily (Feb 10, 2018)

Waving is nothing new; our female beardie used to wave her arm in a circular motion from time to time. Especially in mating season.


----------



## Scutellatus (Feb 10, 2018)

Imported_tuatara said:


> Pretty cool! Can't wait to have tree-water dragons in 10 years. Lol


They already do climb trees. I am not sure of the name of the tree but I have observed them in a low growing (4m) tree with messy boughs, this particular tree was over-hanging a canal. Many times I climbed the tree and tried to sneak up on them only to be beaten by them jumping straight into the water.
[doublepost=1518262239,1518260984][/doublepost]They definitely do have a good bite.
I wouldn't be surprised if her 20kg bite strength statement is a conservative one. I have had a large wild adult male grab my pinky. I had caught him near a KFC (must have been getting in the bins), the closest water was about one kilometre away so I decided to take him somewhere closer to water.
I stopped at my mates place to show him. I got him out of the box and while switching hands I put my pinky in the wrong spot and he decided to chomp down. My initial reaction was to apply pressure to his throat in an attempt to restrict his breathing in the hope of him releasing. This thought lasted about ten seconds until I realised my stupidity, it's a Water Dragon you idiot he can hold his breath for at least thirty minutes. I called out to my mate to come help, all the while this dragon is biting down releasing a little and biting down again.
Now my mate is a big boy, not fat, but tall and pushing 110kg. He needed both hands and had to use quite a bit of force to open its mouth.
Luckily it had grabbed me on the end of the finger and was across my nail so the wound was only on the underside of my pinky, it had cut the edge of my nail though.


----------



## Imported_tuatara (Feb 11, 2018)

i mean arboreal completely  (it was a joke incase you didn't know, btw.)


----------



## Flaviemys purvisi (Feb 11, 2018)

Scutellatus said:


> I put my pinky in the wrong spot and he decided to chomp down. My initial reaction was to apply pressure to his throat in an attempt to restrict his breathing in the hope of him releasing. This thought lasted about ten seconds until I realised my stupidity, it's a Water Dragon you idiot he can hold his breath for at least thirty minutes.


Had this adult female _Myuchelys latisternum_ grab me on my neck just below my chin whilst diving in turbid water in the Mary River.


The bite force of a Saw-shell paired with its razor sharp beak is insane. No chance of waiting it out under water hoping it will release to surface for a breath of air, all turtles can remain submerged without surfacing to breathe for a minimum of 2 hours and some like _Rheodytes leukops_ and _Elusor macrurus_ up to 30 days thanks to cloacal respiration.

Not a pleasant experience.


----------



## GBWhite (Feb 11, 2018)

pinefamily said:


> I read that article earlier today. Very interesting.
> But is it evolving or adapting?



I listened to the whole interview as well and I'm yet to be convinced that it has got anything to do with evolving and inclined to believe they are adapting to survive in a city environment. Other than being grossly overweight the ones I saw in the video don't look any different from those observed in the wild. I think she needs to broaden her study area to include populations in other built up areas and areas of natural habitat with dense populations to make a defined comparison with those in her study area. She states that they are arboreal but that's not the case, they are basically terrestrial and display semi arboreal habits that has more to do with avoiding predation than anything else. Communication through heads bobbing and arm waving has been common knowledge since Jesus was a boy so that's nothing new either. Ditto with male combat and the fact they maintain a harem.


----------



## pinefamily (Feb 11, 2018)

Thanks, George. I felt the same way after reading the article. It seemed like she has limited experience in reptile behaviour in general, and especially with the water dragons.


----------



## Scutellatus (Feb 11, 2018)

pinefamily said:


> Thanks, George. I felt the same way after reading the article. It seemed like she has limited experience in reptile behaviour in general, and especially with the water dragons.


She does say she has been studying mammals for years. Maybe she would be better sticking to them and leaving reptiles to herpetologists or at least someone who knows what they are talking about.


----------



## Nero Egernia (Feb 11, 2018)

I believe there's some merit here, at least in terms of morphology. Isolated populations may eventually evolve to be different. Only time will tell.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Feb 11, 2018)

My guess is that her research grant is running low, so she’s trying to drum up some more funding.


----------



## Scutellatus (Feb 11, 2018)

Unless they are eating a vastly different diet that requires a change in jaw stucture I can't see there being any evolution involved.
Darwins theory was based on Finches that were eating very different foods and their beaks evolved to be able to sustain themselves.


----------

