# Odd...road kill!!!



## indicus (Apr 7, 2005)

Heres a couple photos...'Simoselaps semifasciatus', the first i've seen, after several years out-an-about, and of course, it had just been hit....very beautiful, small burrowing species of elapid, wide spread, quite varible, supposedly;.. however not commonly seen... regarded as harmless.. such a shame,....would have been great to photograph a live specimen...
Here's an oddity, the largest i've ever seen, on the Tablelands, dead or alive...42cm, Stimson's?...this dead specimen: midbody scale rows-38..ventrals-242...subcaudals-45, seems a very small python overall, regardless, of what it's deemed....road kill, damn up-setting!!!...


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## instar (Apr 7, 2005)

What a bloody shame!


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## BROWNS (Apr 7, 2005)

Unreal to seee something so different for a change.Never seen one of those in the first pic and that sure is one odd looking stimsoni alright,i like the banded patterning....


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2005)

*Odd... road kill!!!*

Its a shame indicus,the stimsons looks like the mt surprise,georgetown type,is it from near there!


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## hugsta (Apr 7, 2005)

*RE: Odd... road kill!!!*

Poor things. The stimmie is quite different isn't it.


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## BROWNS (Apr 7, 2005)

*RE: Odd... road kill!!!*

Doesn't look like a true stimmie to me.....it's different alright,is there anything in Coggers or something with an animal like that?

So many reptiles get killed on our roads it's saddening


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2005)

Looks like my fem stim from georgetown browns there smaller than a mac or most other stims you see even if you take into account sexual dimorphism.The fems breed at small size 26 inches overall and have small clutches of very elongated eggs.


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## BROWNS (Apr 7, 2005)

Do you think yours is a true stimsons or could it possibly be some different sub species again?


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## hugsta (Apr 7, 2005)

Your not thinking of that famed word Browns.......inte whatsit...


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## BROWNS (Apr 7, 2005)

mmmmhmmm


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## hugsta (Apr 7, 2005)

LMAO


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2005)

*Odd...road kill!!!!*

Can show you a pic of mine tomorrow browns,they are a type of stimsons and not at all like macs in size and the behaviour they display is very distinctive.The colour is fairly dark compared to stims from some other areas.Think indicus knows more about this type browns,in my personal oppinion they are very distinct from childreni near normanton or pops of macs within and near where they live.This is the oppinion of a complete and utter nutter, YEH BABY YEH!!


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## indicus (Apr 7, 2005)

No its not from Georgetown mate, but its possible the two are similar, how old and how big is your female Oldfella?,as i've seen a fare few of these over the years, but 42cm being the largest; small as?, Differ to others futher west, in size and the general colour as far as i can see...


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## BROWNS (Apr 7, 2005)

> they are very distinct from childreni


that's why i think they might be some sort of sub species....these are very different,i'd love to see that pic of yours for comparison.


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## ad (Apr 7, 2005)

I have seen stimsoni like these before - a mate's had offspring very similar a few years back,
The banding is awesome!! I want some.
Pity to find it as roadkill Indicus, did you get the frog as well this time? lol


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2005)

The fem george stim is 89cm and ive had it about 4 years feeding it mice trying to get some size but its slowed right off.If i compare it to a mates mostly NT females his are much bigger and lay more eggs.His layed 12 eggs last year and mine 6 the year before.The stims towards the gulf,like karumba males ive seen are humongus,as they seem to be sex dimorphic fems are probably similar size to NT variety.In years time with more research there is likely to be several subspecies or species of stims,who knows??


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## indicus (Apr 7, 2005)

You'll never let me live down that frog or two, will ya Ad  ...I agree Oldfella, probably several sub-species, differ alot across the north..... :shock:


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2005)

Indicus and AD now we want to hear the frog story!!! this is chit chat indicus,its driving me nuts!!!


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## indicus (Apr 7, 2005)

Dont start the toad thing again,....please!!! :roll:


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## hugsta (Apr 7, 2005)

Yes, I also want to know the frog story.


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## indicus (Apr 7, 2005)

That Ad's, a trouble maker!!!


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## africancichlidau (Apr 7, 2005)

WHAT Toad thing??


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2005)

Old georgtown female stimsons.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2005)

This is one of the young between the fem georgetown and a NT stim.Not technically a hybrid at the moment,in the future?? :?


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## craig.a.c (Apr 8, 2005)

I want one of the george town stimmies. How much was it??


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2005)

I didnt buy the george fem i swapped a NT stim for it.Sometimes pails for scales has them and sothern cross reptiles may have them craig.


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

Yours looks very similar but a lot darker and bigger than what indicus has there.I've only seen a few of these,indicus has seen probably more than most and i know of quite a few others who've caught these guys and they appear to get no bigger than 2 foot long and i've seen a couple with yellow almost like a banded jungle minus the head.

I think there's a sub species of stimsoni called orientalis but i doubt it's one of them either.


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## bredli (Apr 8, 2005)

It is a orientalis,A.s.orientalis occupies from central WA eastwards.


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

How far eastwards bredli as i still doubt these are orientalis as well?


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## bredli (Apr 8, 2005)

To Queensland.


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

Sorry have no books handy,how far into Queensland?What is the max size of orientalis?


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## pugsly (Apr 8, 2005)

Im probably way off here again but that photo does look a bit like this snake..??


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## bredli (Apr 8, 2005)

BROWNS said:


> Sorry have no books handy,how far into Queensland?What is the max size of orientalis?



The hole stimsoni population in Qld is orientalis.

A.s.orientalis includes NT,SA,NSW,QLD and the eastern half of WA. So every locality has a diffrent size.


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

You're thinking of the snake in the first pic which isn't a coral snake...it's name etc is on the post,we're discussing the small type of childrens python in the 2nd pic which gets no bigger than 2 foot long.....


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

> The hole stimsoni population in Qld is orientalis


OK,not quite up to scratch with stimsoni and localities but i've never heard of all stimmies in Qld being classed as orientalis nor have i seen it written anymore.I still doubt these are a true form of stimsoni but the dicussion is getting interesting.


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

posted twice...  and anmore is meant to be anywhere..


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## bredli (Apr 8, 2005)

Do a scale count orientalis have 243-284 ventral scales and usually 5th and 6th upper labial scales contacting the the eye.


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## obee (Apr 8, 2005)

Tremain it sure looks like a stimson to me.I have seen exact specimens around Carbine,nth and west of Carbine up to the palmer.This type is very small and vary's slightly in the 30 or so animals I have seen.It also looks similar to Wrotham Park,Mt Mulgrave animals west of Chiligoe.Some of these animals are almost totally banded like a BHP with no blotching.Tremain you would have seen what I am talking about in your travels. 

obee


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## BROWNS (Apr 8, 2005)

That's the ones,and you reckon they're a stimsons obee?Sure it's not an intergrade?


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## obee (Apr 9, 2005)

Browns,Mt Carbine seems to be an intergrade area and I have seen a mac and stimy under the same sheet of iron.I have never really seen any specimen that is not easy to distiguish{not to say there isn't intergrades}They are noticably different when you hold them together.Particularly in the head.Stimy's thinner and elongated.I've kept 3 different forms of stimy and these guys are very small.The lateral line, more than not goes over half the body length.


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## BROWNS (Apr 9, 2005)

If it's an intergrade area i doubt that either would be true stimsons or macs.I 've seen these guys also and yes they are tiny.


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## indicus (Apr 9, 2005)

Thats a very good example of of these stimpsons Obee, top looking snake....i do however believe these Stimpsons to be quite unique, being very small specimens, very odd... what would be the largest you've seen? ....
Bredli, i havent seen orientalis here, but it is a possibility, i'll have to familiarize myself with this morph, to make a valid comparsion....


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## Shacks (Apr 9, 2005)

When traveling between Katherine and Darwin I see heaps of snakes on the road. Most are there chasing the Cane Toads. I see more dead than alive. Most look like they have just eaten, but I can say I have not seen anything that small.


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## indicus (Apr 9, 2005)

Damn them Toads, wonder how many of dead snakes that your've seen actually have eaten, toads....or are they just road victims?


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## obee (Apr 10, 2005)

I agree Tremain they are unique and need to be looked at further.The biggest animal I have seen would be lucky to reach the size of small adult mac.They also pruduce small clutches it seems of the clutches I know of 3,4,5 eggs per clutch.
As I said browns there could be intergrades there but I have only ever seen stimy's[less than I see macs] and macs.The macs are generally light phased and classically maculosus.At the Mcleod river I found a mac in a half buried hollow log, partly coiled around a clutch from what I could see,without disturbing her she had 11 maybe more eggs.Pretty standard for macs but far more than the animals we are talking about.
Trying to pic a stimy and a childrens around Normanton,now that is real test.They are very similar and the intergrades depending on the way you hold them could be either.LOL.
Tremain have you ever come accross olives around Chilligoe or sth west of?
obee


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## indicus (Apr 10, 2005)

No i havent seen olives around Chilligoe, but have heard stories, unconfirmed however.... I have also been told that others have seen them west of Surprise, towards Georgetown?...From the few specimens of childrens i've seen towards Normantion, i agree there is going to be debate in the future inregards what they are...i've seen snakes that could be easily identified, some however display characteristics that could be either or???, i can say the same for other areas up here....


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## obee (Apr 12, 2005)

Tremain I have a photo of an olive crossing the road just past the walsh.


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## indicus (Apr 12, 2005)

Would'nt surprise me....


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2005)

An olive has been caught a Mt surprise and is now in a large jar in there in the old museum. Another was seen at the topaz field 15km east ? of surprise and another was seen not far from the lynd turn off.


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## Pike01 (Apr 12, 2005)

Ihave seen stimsoni that have come from charters towers, although i have only seen macs there, also read that mertins come over to charters towers.Heres a pic of a stimsoni from the great basalt wall not far from charters.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

Pike,that stim looks typical orientalis,nothing like obees,indicus or george town specimens in colouration and one of the main diffs between s stimsoni and s prientalis is pattern.Scalation is not reliable for sub species as there are extremes.The childreni found near normanton a quite small and have typical childreni pattern with a dull olive green background,they bear no resemblance to to the indi or obee stims or the george town type stims which are definately not s stim or s orientalis.The small size,diff head morphology and behavioural characteristics clearly defines them from maculosus.The little banded antaresias look good anyway and bear squat resembance to other stims ive seen.Its diff is comparable to childreni v perthensis.


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## earthmother (Apr 12, 2005)

How sad. Thanks for showing us the pics though. That first one was a very pretty snake. Keep a look out for more.


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## bredli (Apr 12, 2005)

I have a male normanton childreni. He is about 2.5yrs old and about 1.1 mtrs long. I will get some pics of him tomorrow in the sun.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2005)

The normanton childreni i saw was about 1970 wildcaught,probably largest was about 30 inches.1.1 metres is big bredli and if fed up in captivity they must reach a good size and equivilant to most other childreni.Some pops probably find few mice in the wild.


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## Pike01 (Apr 12, 2005)

Yeah know its not the same snake oldfella, someone was asking how far east orientalis come before.


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## obee (Apr 12, 2005)

Pike 1 My family is from Charters Towers and that is the first basalt stimy I have seen.LOL Thanks.
Olives at suprise pilbarapyhtons,well there you go.I have family on stations at forsyth,einsliegh area.I've spent a lot of my life in that sandstone gorge country and always wondered why they weren't there.They were all the time the buggers,cool.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 12, 2005)

I personally have not found a live one there yet and they would have to be few and far between. But that is likely to be the case when an animal is getting to the edge of their range. I have found on the New Castle Ranges George town one lizard (Tympanocryptis cephalus)one snake (Denisonia devisi) and a cockroach that were previously not known to occur there. The furtherest east that the cockroach had ever been found was Mt Isa. I personally believe the western side of the cape york will prove to be a wealth of new lizard species in the coming years and I know of one elapid there that needs to be looked at.


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## Pike01 (Apr 12, 2005)

obee, have you seen stimsons at charters, the museum has records there but i have never seen them there


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## indicus (Apr 13, 2005)

Pike, i've seen a splitting image to the photographed stimsons,..... opposite white rock N.P?, just west of charters....
I agree Oldfella, various 'distinct' colour and size variants,....between them all.


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## indicus (Apr 13, 2005)

I remember that that lizard Dave,... shame that roach wasnt a new species?, would have been great!!!,.....you may have had it named after you? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 13, 2005)

Yeah I can just see it, Mackintosh cockroacheii


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## bredli (Apr 13, 2005)

Here is a few pics of my male normanton childreni.


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## bredli (Apr 13, 2005)

And a couple more.


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## westaussie (Apr 16, 2005)

semifasciatus are commonly seen when spotting in my area


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## salebrosus (Apr 16, 2005)

God that is gorgeous West Aussie........... Do many people have them on papers?

Simone.


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## westaussie (Apr 16, 2005)

No - not legal to keep them. But I spot them regularly.


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## westaussie (Apr 16, 2005)

not easy to keep as they feed on reptile eggs. ( Keep em away from ya incubator !! )


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## BROWNS (Apr 17, 2005)

> The little banded antaresias look good anyway and bear squat resembance to other stims ive seen.Its diff is comparable to childreni v perthensis.


Yep olddude,none of these are the same as the ones indicus and obee posted and your childreni v perhensis comparison is a good point.The one in indicus's pic is about as big as they get,and obees looks like a well fe specimen but i doubt it would be any bigger than 2 ft.I still don't think they are pure stimsonsi!


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## shanesaussie_pythons (Apr 17, 2005)

*ROAD KILL*

sertainly a weird looking animal.I dont know the area it came from.But a first glance and without being told were it was cuaght.On one hand it has the post lateral stripe that childreni and stimsoni have.But it doesnt have the stimsoni pattern colouration.EG the red or redy brown.And on the other hand it has the pattern shape and colouration of the maculosus more than the stimsoni.If someone was to show this python to me and told me it was captive bred.And asked what i thought it was bred from .And i know it wasnt a captive bred animal.This is hipathetical.But i would say it looked to me to be a childreni Maculosus cross.Bare in mind thats without knowing scale countsor knowing its true localityof capture.You dont see many stimsoni with that dark almost black patterning anyway this should stir up some debate SHANE


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## obee (Apr 18, 2005)

*RE: ROAD KILL*

Browns you are spot on my animal is less than 2 feet long, 4 yrs old and as I have no female for him,well fed.It is hard to really judge an animal in a photo[I'll get some more of different angles]As I said if you hold up a mac and one of these from the same locale its not hard to tell the difference.I had tennants which had large almost identical blotching to some of these[not all are red or redy brown].No macs there.Tremain you knew these animals.

obee


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## indicus (Apr 18, 2005)

*RE: ROAD KILL*

I agree Obee, it isnt hard to tell the difference.....however after several years, i'd seen animals that appeared to display traits of the two....larger animals with spots and bars.....sorry but i cannot recall which tennants, which your refering, to?......i have seen some different looking 'stimpsons' out that way.....
Westaussie, great to see a living specimen to photograph.....looks great!!!


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## BROWNS (Apr 18, 2005)

*RE: ROAD KILL*



> I agree Obee, it isnt hard to tell the difference.....however after several years, i'd seen animals that appeared to display traits of the two....larger animals with spots and bars..


what's that word again......interwhat??????


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## BROWNS (Apr 18, 2005)

*RE: ROAD KILL*

oh yeah now i remember ....internet :roll: :lol:


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## Brodie (Apr 18, 2005)

Cool simoselpas dude,

Ive found a total of two now.. Very cool little guys


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