# Raising Bearded Dragons without UV light



## Laghairt (Jul 12, 2011)

Hi all,

I spoke to someone on the weekend who breeds beardies and said he has never provided UV light or calcium powder. He uses the 35w GU10 halogen globes for basking lights but does not remove the UV filter. The beardies do not get direct sunlight either. He showed me a picture of an adult beardie he said was 6 years old who looked very healthy. I have no reason to think he was lying and I strongly believe he wasn't

This goes against much of the literature on keeping beardies but this guy seems to have had a lot of success and 6 years is not too bad for a beardie from what I understand.

Does anyone else have experience keeping beardies without UV? I'm not trying to start a debate just looking for people with real life experience keeping beardies without UV. I'd like to know whether it affects health, growth rate and/or breeding.

Cheers

Rondo


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## najanaja (Jul 12, 2011)

ive had them without uv lights, but i have always made sure they had adiquet sunlight to componsate...

maybe he has got lucky and somehow uv light has filtered in the little fellas life,,,

but i cetainly wouldnt take the chance..


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## Laghairt (Jul 12, 2011)

Well his herp room is a well insulated garage without windows so there is no chance of sunlight. He does make sure they get excellent nutrition though. I spoke to him at length about this. Maybe that's enough.

He said he's been keeping and breeding them for years with no problems.


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## LizardLady (Jul 12, 2011)

Rondo, I'm only going to say one thing... My first bearded dragon was just over 11 years old when I had him put to sleep. He had UV and calcium and the correct diet and husbandry all his life.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 13, 2011)

In the past I've successfully kept beardies and ewds with no UV at all without problems. I still have an ewd that would be 15yrs old and only had UV in it's first year.


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## Chris (Jul 13, 2011)

It's an interesting topic....


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2011)

OK thanks junglepython2,

I've been looking at some older threads on this topic and it seems a few other members have had similar success raising dragons without UV.

It makes me wonder whether the importance of UV is overstated/exagerated.



junglepython2 said:


> In the past I've successfully kept beardies and ewds with no UV at all without problems. I still have an ewd that would be 15yrs old and only had UV in it's first year.


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## Chris1 (Jul 13, 2011)

even if the importance of UV is exaggerated, you have to keep in mind that newbies dont have the experience to know all about diet, they make mistakes with heat etc, 

ive heard it is possible to raise and even breed beardies from someone who bred them fro ages, but i still encourage people to use UVB lights or get them regular sun since if other things are slightly amiss in their husbandry, the UV would potentially make up for the shortcomings,...

i dont provide UVB lights in their enclosures, but ensure they get regular sun.


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## Dragons_Lair (Jul 13, 2011)

Uv light is needed primarily to aid calsium absorbtion for good bone development and in order to avoid metabolic bone disease. Most calsium powders these days also contain vitamin D3 which promotes calsium absorbtion. If he was dusting every day with this in addition to providing a high calsium low phosphorous diet than it is possible that this is what is dragging them over the line. Would be interesting to test the uv output of this bulb with and without the filter you mentioned using a proper uv tester...


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## Defective (Jul 13, 2011)

i wouldn't buy from this guy rondo! no Uv and no calcium means every chance his beardies are sick with MBD...i'd report him personally. there are certain husbandry requirements and having UV is one, after one warning in SA if a reptile doesn't have the requirements, you face a court order and 14 days to fix the problem and if not done you face prosecution and your animals being taken. i know, i've reported someone for not having UV and was told if they dont fix it they will get prosecuted for animal crulty and neglect and i will become a temp foster mum of a undersized (yes its undersize and weight) central beardie


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## waruikazi (Jul 13, 2011)

I'd be interested in hearing what they are fed on.


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## Defective (Jul 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> I'd be interested in hearing what they are fed on.



probably baby food


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## Wally (Jul 13, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> I'd be interested in hearing what they are fed on.



Likewise. 

It is an interesting subject that requires further scientific study.


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## Chris (Jul 13, 2011)

I was thinking about this subject the other day. 30 odd years ago I kept lizards in what would only be described now as very poor conditions... no UV, poor diet, poor heating, unsatisfactory enclosures etc. Yet they thrived... how so?


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2011)

Agreed,that's why I was interested in other people's real life experience.

The diet he uses (for adults) includes a mixture of woodies, silkworms (seasonally) and super worms 3 times per week and a variety of fresh greens that he grows himself in a hydroponic setup daily. He also uses butternut squash and other appropriate vegetables. He rarely feeds pinkies (around once a month or less apparently). 

He feeds the young dragons proportionally more insects but otherwise the same diet.

I should add that he did previously use UV but found that there was no vusible difference in the growth rates or physical health of dragons kept with or without UV and over a period of time he stopped using it altogether. His oldest dragons that have been raised with no UV whatsoever are 6.


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## waruikazi (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm not a lizard keeper but i would hazzard a guess that the pinkies, albeit not many, are helping in a significant way to give the BD's their VitD requirements. Unless they are breeding them themselves i would also hazzard a guess that the woodies and superworms are fed on gutload which contains calcium and vitamin supplements.

10 lbs. Pro Gutload Pro Gutload [] - $15.00 : Pro Geckos, Quality geckos and supplies



Rondo said:


> Agreed,that's why I was interested in other people's real life experience.
> 
> The diet he uses (for adults) includes a mixture of woodies, silkworms (seasonally) and super worms 3 times per week and a variety of fresh greens that he grows himself in a hydroponic setup daily. He also uses butternut squash and other appropriate vegetables. He rarely feeds pinkies (around once a month or less apparently).
> 
> He feeds the young dragons proportionally more insects but otherwise the same diet.


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2011)

Not sure about his appraoch gutloading, but it's possible.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 13, 2011)

Rondo said:


> OK thanks junglepython2,
> 
> I've been looking at some older threads on this topic and it seems a few other members have had similar success raising dragons without UV.
> 
> It makes me wonder whether the importance of UV is overstated/exagerated.



There are plenty out there doing it Rando, including some big breeders. Most people don't make mention of it as they don't want to get flamed by all the parrots.


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2011)

Hmm, that's what I suspected after talking to this guy. Would still be interested in other people's experiences keeping dragons without UV.


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## Defective (Jul 13, 2011)

Rondo said:


> Agreed,that's why I was interested in other people's real life experience.
> 
> The diet he uses (for adults) includes a mixture of woodies, silkworms (seasonally) and super worms 3 times per week and a variety of fresh greens that he grows himself in a hydroponic setup daily. He also uses butternut squash and other appropriate vegetables. He rarely feeds pinkies (around once a month or less apparently).
> 
> ...



UV is not only for growth but also needed to help absorb the calcium so even if gutloaded on stuff full of calcium the UV is still needed and MBD comes into play as well. different set of circumstances if he's taking them into the sun


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## waruikazi (Jul 13, 2011)

Lambert said:


> UV is not only for growth but also needed to help absorb the calcium so even if gutloaded on stuff full of calcium the UV is still needed and MBD comes into play as well. different set of circumstances if he's taking them into the sun



You are kind of right but not exactly. UVB is needed to synthesise VitD in an active form which is needed to absorb calcium. If gutload or any other of the feed has the this active VitD then UVB isn't required. Pinkies will supply VitD in the active form.


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## Grogshla (Jul 13, 2011)

i don't see why you would risk not having it set up properly. It does not cost that much more and your dragons will thrive instead of just growing.


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## wokka (Jul 13, 2011)

Grogshla said:


> i don't see why you would risk not having it set up properly. It does not cost that much more and your dragons will thrive instead of just growing.


The point is that if the feed and temperature=metabolic rate is sufficient then there is no visible difference between UV and no UV, but as mentioned before the provision of UV provides a buffer if everthing is not spot on.


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## longqi (Jul 13, 2011)

Most people dont realise how short a period of time a UV globe actually produces UV
Most of the beardies etc under UV are getting no benefit because although the globe still emits light
It no longer produces uv
I grew a fair few beardies and blues without UV lights but with 1 hour direct sunlight every day
Never had a drama


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## Beloved_Reptiles (Jul 13, 2011)

I can only speak from my own personal experience. My oldest beardie (now 13yrs) has had a uv tube most of his life, didn't always have it on however did get regular sunlight and has never had any issues. However nearly 2yrs ago I started out with 2 hatchies with all lighting/uv/heating required. One was perfectly healthy the other suffered badly from MBD and was close to being put down! Now they had sufficient uv, sunlight and calcium dusted food and the vet really couldn't explain why one was so affected and the other perfectly healthy. She now is a happy dragon with unfortunately a hand not quite set right and a tail off to the side but is now happy these days.Personally seeing her go through this I wouldn't want to risk seeing another beardie go through it because all my best efforts weren't put in to preventing it.


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2011)

Is that the case with mercury vapor bulbs as well as flouros?


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## Defective (Jul 14, 2011)

Smithers??,,,, i believe you may know the answer to that question


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