# cross breeding?



## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi, probly a weird question iunno.
but jus wondering could you breed a childrens python with a spotted python?


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## method (Oct 15, 2007)

lol this is gonna be good


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## hodges (Oct 15, 2007)

:shock:. not a good idea.


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Oct 15, 2007)

Popcorn $50c
Drinks...$1
Oh And A Funny Hat Saying Go Crosses Is $11.95


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## Bill07 (Oct 15, 2007)

you could do anything you like


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Can you breed a Shih Tzu with a Pug? would be the same effect  stupid and ugly .


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## mitchdiamond (Oct 15, 2007)

Yes you could but that would be making a hybird which not very many people like.
Before having a go at Clarky they were asking a question not saying they will certainly make hybrids.


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

so its a yes aye...


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Oct 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> Hi, probly a weird question iunno.
> but jus wondering could you breed a childrens python with a spotted python?


its frowned apond in the herp scene,but u could do it,theres nothing stoping you


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

ohh kk i might give it a go then  thanks...


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## MrBredli (Oct 15, 2007)

You could do it, but then i'd have to kill you...


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## HoffOff (Oct 15, 2007)

No its a Defiant No! but try it LOLZERS


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## beardy_boy99 (Oct 15, 2007)

i can feel a 10 page long debate coming on...


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## MrBredli (Oct 15, 2007)

Oops, forgot the  , don't want you thinking i was serious... :lol:


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## method (Oct 15, 2007)

gonna get very ugly


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## HoffOff (Oct 15, 2007)

But you don't Understand The physics Of the Question HAHAHAHAHA


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

lol is it illegal or anything ?
or people just dont like it...


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## reptilegirl_jordan (Oct 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> so its a yes aye...


yeh u could


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## MrSpike (Oct 15, 2007)

Damn those ugly ugly hybrids...


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## HoffOff (Oct 15, 2007)

They just don't like iT! And I don't Either It will be a Freak Of nature!


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## method (Oct 15, 2007)

Both i believe (may be wrong), very frowned upon in the herp community


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

lol fair enough...


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## Jozz (Oct 15, 2007)

It is illegal.


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## wil (Oct 15, 2007)

im not guna say anything
not a big fan of them
heres a member of this site home page
http://www.sunrisereptiles.com/


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## wil (Oct 15, 2007)

mongrels!, just vomited over screen


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

If you have a childrens and a spotted and want to breed why not swap one for the other?


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## method (Oct 15, 2007)

wil said:


> http://www.sunrisereptiles.com/



Gotta admit those diamond jungle jaguar hatchies are very hawt..


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## wil (Oct 15, 2007)

method said:


> Gotta admit those diamond jungle jaguar hatchies are very hawt..


if ya into those things, vomited over screen again


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## -Peter (Oct 15, 2007)

half the Antaresia on the market are hybridised. For a long time a lot of people thought there was only one species. lot of people obviously still do.


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## bump73 (Oct 15, 2007)

WOO HOO!!!

First a cat thread..Now cross breeding

It's a good monday on APS:lol::lol:


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## PhilK (Oct 15, 2007)

Khagan said:


> Can you breed a Shih Tzu with a Pug? would be the same effect  stupid and ugly .


Except that breeding two pythons that look as close to eachther as these do would produce an animal that probably won't look any weirder than either of the parents.

Clarky, you can if you want, though a lot of people will stamp their feet and beat their fists. The main issue with breeding hybrids is some people do it and sell the offspring as pure. If you breed hybrids and want to sell them, make _damn_ sure you _tell_ the buyer it's a hybrid!


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## childreni_440 (Oct 15, 2007)

I agree with earlier message, If you have one of each species then i would swap one so that you have two of the same species. You are game bringing this topic up....


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## beeman (Oct 15, 2007)

do the pythons a big favor and dont cross them, there are numerous
mates available for either of them, do your home work and find one.
Crossing the two because you can is a waste of either pythons genetics
and a totally unacceptable thing to do.


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## nervous (Oct 15, 2007)

do the pythons a favour lol 
nuthing at all will happen to them except bring new life to the world .

i dont agree with crossing but its up to the individual it wont do any harm to the pythons in no manner and no it is not illegal so do as you pls but as some1 stated make sure you advertise them for what they are.


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## kandi (Oct 15, 2007)

they are what they are , why cross them?


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## Kirby (Oct 15, 2007)

untill someone can explain to me how this is endangering the individual snakes or there is a death rate with hybrids.. i dont have a problem.. although my opinion would differ if EVERYONE did it and there was no longer any pure breds..

are any of you against it because you feel it would effect your buisness or flow of sales in purebreds? or is truely you just think there ugly... leading people to vommet on screens, advise against and warn its 'illegal'


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## Jen (Oct 15, 2007)

I am personally not against it, but why bother? Surely pure breds would be better simply as they will most likley sell better - and before anyone jumps down my throat I realise that selling the ofspring is not the only reason for breeding


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Kirby said:


> untill someone can explain to me how this is endangering the individual snakes or there is a death rate with hybrids.. i dont have a problem.. although my opinion would differ if EVERYONE did it and there was no longer any pure breds..
> 
> are any of you against it because you feel it would effect your buisness or flow of sales in purebreds? or is truely you just think there ugly... leading people to vommet on screens, advise against and warn its 'illegal'



I think because people try to pass them off as something they arent then the person who buys them thinking they are what they wanted gets screwed over and left with some mongrel that they could then also breed and pass off as a pure when its not and screw even more people over.


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## PhilK (Oct 15, 2007)

beeman said:


> do the pythons a big favor and dont cross them, there are numerous
> mates available for either of them, do your home work and find one.
> Crossing the two because you can is a waste of either pythons genetics
> and a totally unacceptable thing to do.


I'm sure the pythons don't mind breeding with a different species..
Crossing them doesn't waste their genetics.. The parents genetics remain perfectly intact no matter what you cross them with.. You won't "waste" either of the pythons genetics.

All that will happen is they will have little hybrid babies (which won't look drastically different to mum and dad, and won't likely have any sort of problems that lower their quality of life). As long as the breeder is responsible with these hybrids, and doesn't sell them as something they're not, there's no biggy


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## Kirby (Oct 15, 2007)

Khagan said:


> I think because people try to pass them off as something they arent then the person who buys them thinking they are what they wanted gets screwed over and left with some mongrel that they could then also breed and pass off as a pure when its not and screw even more people over.



hmmm... so if it was a perfect world and no body lied.. we would all be fine with it? other than those hwo dislike their asthetics..


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

there not like thata good looking snake byem self n e way so i dont think the hatchlings would look bad.
and how much do u think they would go for? bout $180 or sumin?


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## Jen (Oct 15, 2007)

Maybe the herp world needs to use papers like the dog breeders do


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Kirby said:


> hmmm... so if it was a perfect world and no body lied.. we would all be fine with it? other than those hwo dislike their asthetics..



Well im not saying that is the reason for everyone =P but it would be my main reason for not liking them, id like to see things kept pure not some lucky dip of what your recieving. It would be the same with a dog, if you bought something being sold to you as purebred, it looks like a purebred but then afterwards you realise its not really a purebred wouldnt you be annoyed?


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

yea i guess if people tried to sell them as purebred but ii wouldn't but does n e one know how much theyd go for?


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

and problem another question that might anoy ppl but jus checking.
can u like cross breed pretty much any species of snakes?


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## Kathryn_ (Oct 15, 2007)

This is interesting - I'd no idea so many people felt so passionately about this! 

I personally can't see why you wouldn't cross two members of a species*, no matter how different they may have become over the years. It's not a "waste of genetics" at all. In fact I might even argue it _encourages_ genetic variation in stocks that may become inbred after long enough in captivity - look at pedigree dogs and horses. There are breeds of horse within which it is almost impossible to find breeding partners tat _aren't_ related in the past few generations because nobody ever bred out, to retain "purity" in the breed, to no advantange but having very pretty and very stupid horses. 

I can't see a reason for people to be so violently against this, provided of course that cross-bred snakes are sold as what they are. Has anyone observed health problems in these snakes? Are they likely to be more aggressive? I'm just not seeing what there is to object to. 

*By the traditional zoological definition, that a species is a group of animals which can produce viable offspring with one another.


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> yea i guess if people tried to sell them as purebred but ii wouldn't but does n e one know how much theyd go for?



Prob bit cheaper than your average spotted or childrens if you could find people that actually want one.


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## RevDaniel (Oct 15, 2007)

accidents can happen with mistaken sex but i wouldn't recomend it


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Kathryn_ said:


> This is interesting - I'd no idea so many people felt so passionately about this!
> 
> I personally can't see why you wouldn't cross two members of a species*, no matter how different they may have become over the years. It's not a "waste of genetics" at all. In fact I might even argue it _encourages_ genetic variation in stocks that may become inbred after long enough in captivity - look at pedigree dogs and horses. There are breeds of horse within which it is almost impossible to find breeding partners tat _aren't_ related in the past few generations because nobody ever bred out, to retain "purity" in the breed, to no advantange but having very pretty and very stupid horses.
> 
> ...



The difference between dogs etc is reptiles can pretty much be inbred without much problems and i believe its how alot of people develope morphs and albinos?

Anyways, i guess childrens x spotted in the long run isnt as bad as some of the Frankenstein's the US and Europe breed lol.


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

ok, kool thanks for all ya imputs... and yea the only thing wrong with it that i think would be if you sold them for what there not... nothing else wrong about it... so i might do it... depends...


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## PhilK (Oct 15, 2007)

Kathryn_ said:


> This is interesting - I'd no idea so many people felt so passionately about this!
> 
> *1. I personally can't see why you wouldn't cross two members of a species**, no matter how different they may have become over the years. It's not a "waste of genetics" at all. In fact I might even argue it _encourages_ genetic variation in stocks that may become inbred after long enough in captivity - look at pedigree dogs and horses. There are breeds of horse within which it is almost impossible to find breeding partners tat _aren't_ related in the past few generations because nobody ever bred out, to retain "purity" in the breed, to no advantange but having very pretty and very stupid horses.
> 
> ...


 
Woah OK.. hold up. You've mixed this up a little.

*1.* Nobody here is arguing against crossing two members of a species. That isn't the issue. Crossing two membrs of a species is breeding one _Antaresia childreni_ to another. No worries there. The problem here is that he wants to cross two snakes that are _different_ species (i.e. _A.childreni _and _A. stimsoni_)

*2. *This is a very, very simplified version of what is the case. Check out the Carpet x Woma for example.. these are two completely different species, and apparently they produced viable offspring. Does this mean that carpets are in fact the same species as woma? (No)


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## Jen (Oct 15, 2007)

Why not cross a cobra with a python and get mildly venomous snakes that like to hug their food?


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## Khagan (Oct 15, 2007)

Jen said:


> Why not cross a cobra with a python and get mildly venomous snakes that like to hug their food?



Are you encouraging exotics and hybrids in the same post? :lol: Oh dear :lol:.


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## abbott75 (Oct 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> and problem another question that might anoy ppl but jus checking.
> can u like cross breed pretty much any species of snakes?



No, only closely related species. Personally, I am not a fan of hybrids, but each to their own I guess.


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

ok thx, so u cant cross like a bhp and a diamond? (not that i want to, just askin)


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## Kathryn_ (Oct 15, 2007)

1. I was under the impression that most people regard spotteds, childrens and stimsons as three _subspecies_ of anteresia? If they produce healthy, fertile offspring I can't see how you can make any other argument, really. 

2. Well, most geneticists would probably disagree with you, though there are still arguments against cross-breeding. Dingoes and "dogs" produce mongrel pups are aggressive, stupid little monsters but they are still the same species under the tradition definition. Doesn't mean I agree with cross-breeding them 

Jen: I'll tip my hat if the python survives the mating process! (jk)


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## PhilK (Oct 15, 2007)

Jen said:


> Why not cross a cobra with a python and get mildly venomous snakes that like to hug their food?


Here that wouldn't work. Crossing two pythons is relatively easy, as they are superficially similair on the classification scale (i.e. Kingdom, Phylum,Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species). For example they may only differ from eachother at the Class level and below... Cobras and pythons differ from eachother somewhere way up the heirarchy like Order..

I didn't actually research that so the specifics are probably wrong


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## junglepython2 (Oct 15, 2007)

Clarky said:


> there not like thata good looking snake byem self n e way so i dont think the hatchlings would look bad.
> and how much do u think they would go for? bout $180 or sumin?


 
You can pick up pure bred childrens for less then that. So you won't get even close to $180, unless you find some newbie that doesn't know what there doing. Or alternativly you could sell them to a petshop who will likely re-sell them as pure.


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

kk...


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## abbott75 (Oct 15, 2007)

Kathryn_ said:


> Dingoes and "dogs" produce mongrel pups are aggressive, stupid little monsters but they are still the same species under the tradition definition. Doesn't mean I agree with cross-breeding them



Dingos and dogs are actually the same species, _Canis lupus._ Dingos are _Canis lupus dingo,_ dogs are _Canis lupus familiaris.

_It is not the same as a cross between two different species.


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## abbott75 (Oct 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Or alternativly you could sell them to a petshop who will likely re-sell them as pure.



Not in NSW...


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## beesagtig (Oct 15, 2007)

Lol mildly venomous that like to hug their prey - GOLD!


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## junglepython2 (Oct 15, 2007)

abbott75 said:


> Not in NSW...


 
True. Looks like that may be changing soon though. These are the things to look forward to.


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## Australis (Oct 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> You can pick up pure bred childrens for less then that. So you won't get even close to $180, unless you find some newbie that doesn't know what there doing. Or alternativly you could sell them to a petshop who will likely re-sell them as pure.



Too True!!

There are some amazing looking _Antaresia_ being bred and sold at very reasonable prices.
So why bother even breeding an _Antaresia_ cross, get a pair of nice _Antaresia_ and breed 
something you can be proud of, not something you will have trouble selling honestly.

Just ignore the people who post photos of "jaguar" morph carpets
as if its some kind of testament to hybrids.


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## Clarky (Oct 15, 2007)

really? is there like a site or sumthin that i could get sum info about that?


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## abbott75 (Oct 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> True. Looks like that may be changing soon though. These are the things to look forward to.



Wow, really? Do you have a source, I'd love to read up on that.


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## junglepython2 (Oct 15, 2007)

abbott75 said:


> Wow, really? Do you have a source, I'd love to read up on that.


 
Not personally, but here you go. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63919


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## Kathryn_ (Oct 15, 2007)

abbott75 said:


> Dingos and dogs are actually the same species, _Canis lupus._ Dingos are _Canis lupus dingo,_ dogs are _Canis lupus familiaris.
> 
> _It is not the same as a cross between two different species.



Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Anything that can have healthy babies is the same species, as far as most biologists are concerned. Ie Horses and Donkeys are different species because Asses are sterile, dogs and dingoes are the same because their offspring are healthy and fertile.


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## junglepython2 (Oct 15, 2007)

Kathryn_ said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Anything that can have healthy babies is the same species, as far as most biologists are concerned. Ie Horses and Donkeys are different species because Asses are sterile, dogs and dingoes are the same because their offspring are healthy and fertile.


 
That's a very dated definition of species. Plenty of different species can produce fertile offspring especially in the reptile world.


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## beeman (Oct 15, 2007)

as typical with ppl asking if they can xbreed this python with that python
they have already made up thier minds that they are going to do it.
As for asking what they would sell for, if thats the only reason you want to breed 
them you are only interested in the return and not the pythons for what they are.
TOTALLY SICK OF PPL THAT ARE HELL BENT ON BREEDING TWO SNAKESOF A DIFFERENT FORM
BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MORE MONGRELS ON THE MARKET FOR UNSUSPECTING BUYERS


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## Kathryn_ (Oct 15, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> That's a very dated definition of species. Plenty of different species can produce fertile offspring especially in the reptile world.



It's a simple defition but I wouldn't say it's dated. In any case, my point was that I'd like to know exactly why people object to this. As long as the offspring are healthy and happy (unlike dingo Xs) I can't see an argument against it.


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## Australis (Oct 15, 2007)

Kathryn_ said:


> I can't see an argument against it.



How about some respect for Australias native fauna.

The ability to produce viable (non sterile) offspring isnt good enough to define species.

You dont even need to open your eyes to notice 
the difference between a Bredli and a Carpet python
you can feel it in your hands!

Yet, crossing them i imagine would produces viable offspring.


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## darkangel (Oct 15, 2007)

Australis said:


> How about some respect for Australias native fauna.
> 
> The ability to produce viable (non sterile) offspring isnt good enough to define species.
> 
> ...



it can and has been done as i was talking to a guy last week who has 2 coastal x bredli's.


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## darkangel (Oct 15, 2007)

but having said that i don't think i would do it personally.


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## jamesr (Oct 15, 2007)

okay well
your aloud to do it
but its personally i wouldnt
but on the other hand i own a hybrid and its a great pet but only because it happens in the wild naturally with diamonds and carpets so i dont see the harm
another thing is i dont really hate them and every time you see a cross breed dog do you 'vomit all over it' no lol


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## Australis (Oct 15, 2007)

Dark Angel,
Im aware that people have crossed Bredli with most forms of carpet (and diamonds
just not sure if anyone has bred from the resulting hybrid offspring, knowingly.


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## Kathryn_ (Oct 15, 2007)

Australis said:


> How about some respect for Australias native fauna.



Populations being separated, developing into subspecies and then re-encountering one another and going on to cross-breed isn't unheard of in the wild. I'm not saying I'd do it - frankly I can't see any reason to beyond curiosity, which isn't good enough for me to **** about with the creation of lives - but once again, nobody's put forth a particularly strong argument against it either.


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## Renagade (Oct 15, 2007)

ha ha. these post halarious, i do love the passion behind the pure bred club too. a friend of mine once rocked up to german shepard training with a shepard that had a bit of something else in it ( and he knew it) and was snobbed by the other proud shepard owners. reminds me of the big fark Q he gave them... he ditched the training course for a more relaxed group.. and still loves his dog. this situation is bound to happen, there is nothing stopping you, if you are honest about the breed, not even kama will get in your way.


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