# Albino Hybrid Morelias



## codysnake (Jul 23, 2011)

Hey i was wondering with hybridsing pythons if you crossed an albino darwin with any other morelia such as a GTP or maybe diamond if when you get the hatchies which would be all hets for albino if you put brother, sister or not to be insest have two breeding pairs and put them together. I would be very interested to see what these babies look like, iim not really agaist hybrids because seeings as in Australia we cant get balls, corns, rectis all the 'fun' stuff we could i guess mix things up and have new colours and somthing different. the albinos were big hits and more recently the RPMs, i have also noticed the ever growing amount of hybrids. I suspect with the ever growing amount of hybrids that eventually pure morelias would be worth alot more so their price will rise. I dont exploit snakes for their money either even though they are good money makers I enjoy snakes for what they are.

Im keen for any photos people may have of any hybrids of morelias or maybe even other Australian snakes. Also photos of more harder to find patterns and colours.


----------



## spilota_variegata (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm just waiting for the first albino, rough scaled green tree python to show itself. I'm sure someone out there is trying


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

Why hybridsie everything and mess up the genetics pool like theyve done in America? And our natives are way more "fun" than any corn snake or ball python.


----------



## Inkage (Jul 23, 2011)

Indeed more fun than a ball or corn... Who wants to keep little midget shoe lace snakes?


----------



## kawasakirider (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't see the problem with hybrids if they are kept seperate from pure lines and sold for what they are. How is it an issue? Plus you end up with fantastic looking snakes.


----------



## GeckoGuy (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not good with genetics, but wouldn't it be possible to perhaps breed an albino MD with another type of carpet python for instance bredli ,dilute the MD in it by matching the md with a bredli,breed offspring with bredli and repeat.I can imagine it would take a long time but eventually you'd have an albino bredli .


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

GeckoGuy said:


> I'm not good with genetics, but wouldn't it be possible to perhaps breed an albino MD with another type of carpet python for instance bredli ,dilute the MD in it by matching the md with a bredli,breed offspring with bredli and repeat.I can imagine it would take a long time but eventually you'd have an albino bredli .


Good luck finding an albino MD...


----------



## snakes123 (Jul 23, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> Good luck finding an albino MD...



He said for instance...


----------



## Red-Ink (Jul 23, 2011)

GeckoGuy said:


> I'm not good with genetics, but wouldn't it be possible to perhaps breed an albino MD with another type of carpet python for instance bredli ,dilute the MD in it by matching the md with a bredli,breed offspring with bredli and repeat.I can imagine it would take a long time but eventually you'd have an albino bredli .



Nope what you would end up with is an albino hybrid, carpet/bredli..... not an albino bredli.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Lol. You think if you make hybrids that it will increase the price of the pure species?? Hahaha. That is funny. Over here in America, a pure normal ball python is $20. A pure Irian Jaya carpet python (if it is really pure??) is around $100 to $500 depending on the quality. When you breed them together, you get a Carpball and they sell for like $2,000 I think? Over here in America they breed any snake with any other snake that will mate. We have ball pythons bred to Retics. Retics bred to Burmese pythons. Womas bred to ball pythons. Carpet pythons bred to ball pythons. Ball pythons bred to Blood pythons. Carpet pythons bred to Green Tree Pythons. Corn snakes bred to King snakes, and so on and so on. What is wrong with the snakes that are natural? Why do people have to breed two species together that would never meet in the wild? There is nothing wrong with intergrades that breed in the wild. That is completely different then taking a snake from Africa and breeding it too a snake from Asia. There is no need for it. It is simply for money. I am strongly against hybrids.


----------



## reptileaddiction (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia to Morelia of a different sub-species would be a cross-breed not a hybrid.


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

Yep I think the prices of the normal ones will go down because the "new exciting" hybrids will take over the market, that means less people will breed regular snakes and we'll become essentially like america with loads of hybridising, morphs and inbreeding and itll get harder to find a regular carpet python, spotted python ect


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

We only have like 11 python species overall though, with like 1 (_oenpelliensis_) not in the hobby. There won't be THAT many morphs.


----------



## kawasakirider (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Lol. You think if you make hybrids that it will increase the price of the pure species?? Hahaha. That is funny. Over here in America, a pure normal ball python is $20. A pure Irian Jaya carpet python (if it is really pure??) is around $100 to $500 depending on the quality. When you breed them together, you get a Carpball and they sell for like $2,000 I think? Over here in America they breed any snake with any other snake that will mate. We have ball pythons bred to Retics. Retics bred to Burmese pythons. Womas bred to ball pythons. Carpet pythons bred to ball pythons. Ball pythons bred to Blood pythons. Carpet pythons bred to Green Tree Pythons. Corn snakes bred to King snakes, and so on and so on. What is wrong with the snakes that are natural? Why do people have to breed two species together that would never meet in the wild? There is nothing wrong with intergrades that breed in the wild. That is completely different then taking a snake from Africa and breeding it too a snake from Asia. There is no need for it. It is simply for money. I am strongly against hybrids.



But if the seller is honest and says they are hybrids, and they aren't sold as pure (to eventually be bred and the offspring sold as pure) why does it matter? Forget the price of things for a second, who cares if the price of a pure python goes down, up or stays constant. Why is cross breeding snakes an issue?



Snakeluvver3 said:


> We only have like 11 python species overall though, with like 1 (_oenpelliensis_) not in the hobby. There won't be THAT many morphs.



I dunno mate... Think about it. There are thousands of combinations that can come from 11 sub species.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> Yep I think the prices of the normal ones will go down because the "new exciting" hybrids will take over the market, that means less people will breed regular snakes and we'll become essentially like america with loads of hybridising, morphs and inbreeding and itll get harder to find a regular carpet python, spotted python ect



Exactly. At least someone is thinking smart. Over here it is so hard to find a pure carpet python. You have to find a really good breeder that you know has a good name and not one that is just trying to rip someone off. I don't see the point of hybrids.... to me most are ugly and the original snakes are much more attractive.


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> We only have like 11 python species overall though, with like 1 (_oenpelliensis_) not in the hobby. There won't be THAT many morphs.


Remember that post when we get someone breeding an Albino Rough Scaled Green Tree JAG.



Morelia4life said:


> Exactly. At least someone is thinking smart. Over here it is so hard to find a pure carpet python. You have to find a really good breeder that you know has a good name and not one that is just trying to rip someone off. I don't see the point of hybrids.... to me most are ugly and the original snakes are much more attractive.


I do think many hybrids are attractive, but I just dont want the bloodlines to be stuffed up.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Because most of the people in the U.S. aren't honest about it? They don't care what happens to the market as long as they can make some $$$$. Why else would you sell snakes for $25,000, $50,000 and $100,000 plus. If someone is dumb enough to buy a hybrid snake that is "supposed" to be a pure snake, do you think the seller is going to say anything? No. Maybe over there in Australia most of you guys are honest and are decent folks but over here in America it is a different story. If a seller sees that you aren't really all that good with reptiles or you are new too the hobby, some will try to rip you off in a heart beat.


----------



## Snakeluvver2 (Jul 23, 2011)

Hybrids are about as exciting as bread. 
People won't ever be selling honestly because half the time people don't even know what they are selling. 
Get some naturally beautiful snakes or some furniture if you want something nice to look at.


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Exactly. At least someone is thinking smart. Over here it is so hard to find a pure carpet python. You have to find a really good breeder that you know has a good name and not one that is just trying to rip someone off. I don't see the point of hybrids.... to me most are ugly and the original snakes are much more attractive.


Says the man with the Jag.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

kingsnake.com Classifieds: Adult Carpall Female 2007 Stripes Galore reduced price new pics That snake is about as ugly as dirt. A regular carpet is way more attractive then that piece of dirt.


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> kingsnake.com Classifieds: Adult Carpall Female 2007 Stripes Galore reduced price new pics That snake is about as ugly as dirt. A regular carpet is way more attractive then that piece of dirt.


I personally find the beauty in all snakes and dont think that snake is a piece of dirt, I think the breeder is a piece of dirt.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> Says the man with the Jag.



Actually I don't have that Jag any more. I traded him for a pair of Spotted pythons. He started showing neuro issues and I didn't want to deal with that so I traded him. Also a Jag is not a hybrid if you know anything about snakes. The first Jag was produced in 1994 and it came from a pair of seemingly normal coastals. In 1998, the Jag was proven out. Just a little bit of info for you their buddy.


----------



## GeckoGuy (Jul 23, 2011)

I wouldn't mind just a few reputable breeders with small lines of cross bred pythons, but I feel it would be impossible to keep it like that..i don't want our pythons to have similar issues to pedigree dogs  so hopefully we make do with what we have instead of trying to make something different.


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

I agree with you on that Morelia4life. Although I do like the head shape of Ball Pythons.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I personally find the beauty in all snakes and dont think that snake is a piece of dirt, I think the breeder is a piece of dirt.



That is what I meant to say. This thread just has me all pis$#4 off because of how I feel about hybrids. Once again Hybrids not crosses or intergrades but HYBRIDS for those that are a little slow out there.


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

I'd be ok with people breeding two snakes together to make a hybrid for private observation but not to start a line and sell them commercially.


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Actually I don't have that Jag any more. I traded him for a pair of Spotted pythons. He started showing neuro issues and I didn't want to deal with that so I traded him. Also a Jag is not a hybrid if you know anything about snakes. The first Jag was produced in 1994 and it came from a pair of seemingly normal coastals. In 1998, the Jag was proven out. Just a little bit of info for you their buddy.


I know, but the majority of Jags nowadays (or almost all the ones I've seen) are mixes of subspecies of carpets, which you seem to be against.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Here is another one. A woma is a very beautiful snake and too me, these are no longer beautiful. kingsnake.com Classifieds: CB2008 WALL Hybrids - Beautiful and Unique!



Snakeluvver3 said:


> I know, but the majority of Jags nowadays (or almost all the ones I've seen) are mixes of subspecies of carpets, which you seem to be against.



I am not against intergrading. I am not against a coastal mating with a diamond or a jungle mating with a coastal or whatever. If it can happen in the wild then it is fine. I am against a Coastal mating with a ball python. I am against a snake from Africa mating with a snake from Australia. Do you see what I am saying?


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Here is another one. A woma is a very beautiful snake and too me, these are no longer beautiful. kingsnake.com Classifieds: CB2008 WALL Hybrids - Beautiful and Unique!
> 
> 
> 
> I am not against intergrading. I am not against a coastal mating with a diamond or a jungle mating with a coastal or whatever. If it can happen in the wild then it is fine. I am against a Coastal mating with a ball python. I am against a snake from Africa mating with a snake from Australia. Do you see what I am saying?


Oh I get what you're saying now. 
By the way, I think Wall Pythons look pretty nice, but I don't really like making them breed...


----------



## Wally (Jul 23, 2011)

A Coastal mating with a Diamond is not an intergrade. Nor are any of the other pairings you mention.


----------



## snakeluvver (Jul 23, 2011)

I think "Walls" just look like a new morph of ball python.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Then what would it be? I thought an intergrade was when two different subspecies overlapped in nature and mated with each other? Aren't Diamonds subspecies of carpets or carpets subspecies of diamonds?


----------



## Wally (Jul 23, 2011)

The term intergrade refers to the gradual overlapping of the species. There are not two distinct populations of Diamonds and Coastals getting funky on a Saturday night producing intergrades.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Ok. Thanks


----------



## Wally (Jul 23, 2011)

People tend to pair the two in captivity and call them an intergrade, which in my opinion is wrong.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

You mean like that? Extraordinary Ectotherms :: Will Bird

Sorry, it didn't work all the way but he has Diamond Coastal Intergrades for as low as $65. Why make them when diamonds are still any where from $500 to $1,000 over here?


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 23, 2011)

The Brazilian Boa is awesome!


----------



## Wally (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes, none of those look like what I'd consider to be an intergrade. However, I do accept that the terminology between our countries will vary.


----------



## Morelia4life (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes. You are correct on that one.


----------



## D3pro (Jul 24, 2011)

^ Het for albino. I have a pair. 50% Jungle X darwin






^ Het for albino. I have a pair. 50% MD X darwin






^ Poss het for albino (with jag and hypo in the mix). One male. Pure Hybrid 

I think a pure animal will always have value in every collection... But my I like my mongrels.
I wanted to show some variation with the hets... an MD X albino will be a reduced yellow. A higher % will/should turn out as snows.


----------



## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

So D3, I'm not down with genetics (forgot how to do punnet squares, lol), but do you have a 25% chance of producing albino jungleXdarwins? Then it will be a gamble if the albino's (if you got any) would have jungle patterns, or darwin patterns? 

They are all nice snakes BTW. The jungle x darwin looks like one of the nicest jungles you can get


----------



## dihsmaj (Jul 24, 2011)

First and second snakes are stunners D3, the last one, not so much...


----------



## D3pro (Jul 24, 2011)

If I put 2 hets of any kind a quarter of the clutch will be albinos. So if both hets are 50% jungle X darwin then I should get a few 50% jungle albinos with higher yellows, maybe even fluro yellows (instead of oranges).
Many darwin to jungle pairings don't work to well but this one seemed to have produced some awesome hets.



Snakeluvver3 said:


> First and second snakes are stunners D3, the last one, not so much...



I like it cause it's "special"


----------



## kawasakirider (Jul 24, 2011)

So I was right?

I like the last snake, looks like a four leaf clover on its head


----------



## Dannyboi (Jul 24, 2011)

Morelia4life said:


> Actually I don't have that Jag any more. I traded him for a pair of Spotted pythons. He started showing neuro issues and I didn't want to deal with that so I traded him. Also a Jag is not a hybrid if you know anything about snakes. The first Jag was produced in 1994 and it came from a pair of seemingly normal coastals. In 1998, the Jag was proven out. Just a little bit of info for you their buddy.


There are a few members on this forum or at least one who believe that Jags only started showing Neuro issues around the time that Irian Jaya Carpets were added into the mix.


----------



## Wookie (Jul 24, 2011)

Yawn... Again? :lol:


----------



## Mace699 (Jul 24, 2011)

d3 absolute stunners out of curiosity what do you have these down as on your log book. my only concern is in the next 5 to 10 years who's to say the MD, Coastal or Jungle you buy is pure? i think in the next few years we are going to see some beautiful snakes but forgive me for being an elitist but why not keep the lines pure and develop them the old fashion way yes it takes a long time but i think that means you can justify a reasonable price that way. not having a stab at you or anyone so don't take any offence. just like things done the old fashioned way.


----------



## Tildy (Jul 24, 2011)

Inbreeding is inherrant in any animal hobby where they want to create new 'strains' and I think it severly weakens the gene pool making for delicate animals that are often born deformed and need extra special treatment just to survive. I know it is harmless to some degree but I think there is a definate level where you end up with no good strong, healthy genetics left from the original strains beacuse the original strains just aren't desired anymore.


----------



## pythrulz (Jul 24, 2011)

Pure blood albinos are far more bueatiful than any jag corn or ball though if bred as a hybrid and then sold as one should be ok


----------



## D3pro (Jul 24, 2011)

Mace699 said:


> d3 absolute stunners out of curiosity what do you have these down as on your log book. my only concern is in the next 5 to 10 years who's to say the MD, Coastal or Jungle you buy is pure? i think in the next few years we are going to see some beautiful snakes but forgive me for being an elitist but why not keep the lines pure and develop them the old fashion way yes it takes a long time but i think that means you can justify a reasonable price that way. not having a stab at you or anyone so don't take any offence. just like things done the old fashioned way.



I'm not sure as it isn't 5 to 10 years yet lol.
tho it's up to the keepers and the breeders to keep track and make sure that what they have is what it is... if things get muddled then thats just a result of bad book keeping (or dodgy-ness) 

For the book thing, I write them down as what they are.... _Morelia Spilota. IE. _Carpet Python

I enjoy the fact that you associated elitists with pure animals lol. I think it's just a matter of preference of what people breed and keep.
I enjoy both but lean more towards the designer/morph side of the hobby (pretty animals).

Price isn't an issue for me, I do it cause it's a hobby.

No offence taken or given.


----------



## euphorion (Jul 24, 2011)

As said, i feel that the most harm to be done by the inevitable flood of hybridisation is the animals not being being sold as what they truly are and therefore risking the unknown dilution of full-blood animals. I for one will enjoy seeing what is being/will be created but ultimately i love my little aussie rippers just the way they are. Can't imagine a sweet boofy Bredli face after it's been muddled up with another carpet species. We already love them for what they are so we ought to take steps to ensure the continuity of each and every species as pure animals as a priority, then have what fun is to be had once those lines are secure.


----------



## codysnake (Jul 24, 2011)

wow D3 im really keen to see what these babies would look like. My dad breeds birds and we have 30 avaries so this is why i created this post because im really into genetics and morphs. The jungle darwin cross would look nice because at the moment it looks like a jungle to the patterns should be orange or yellow due to the black and the yellow would be white or like you said before a flouro yellow, that would look very nice! I think that maybe some pet shops would keep pure bred snakes. i definatley know that scales and tailes in adelaide would keep them because he seems to be against almost everything haha! Its been a very good post and hearing everyones oppinions is good. Im very supprised that people havnt gone absolutely ape ****.


----------

