# Photo Request



## ravensgait (Mar 6, 2008)

Hoping someone here can help me out with this.. I'm looking for a photo(s) of a Coastal with a lot of yellow, that is known to be Coastal and not a cross with a jungle.. I think I remember seeing one posted here a while back but can't find the thread.. Thanks in advance.. Randy


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## Chris1 (Mar 6, 2008)

would this be the thread ur talking about?

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/exciting-pairing-76481


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## ravensgait (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks Chris, but it was farther back than this one, though those are some yellow Coastals


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## ravensgait (Mar 7, 2008)

Anyone have any Coastals with yellow that would like to post some photos???


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## NickM (Mar 7, 2008)

Trying to prove me wrong Randy?

Nick


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## ravensgait (Mar 7, 2008)

Well already have the photos for that Nick just seeing how many I can get lol.. And besides I'm really interested to see what hopefully some will post, can't get enough of the animals these folks have over there.. Randy


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## coastal_22 (Mar 7, 2008)

hey mate
here is my little girl, i know its probably not wat you were talking about since she has 
alot of dark pigmentation but the photos do darken her a fare bit.


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## ravensgait (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks Coastal 22, that's what I'm looking for !! Coastals with nice yellow, can you post some info on her.. Randy


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## NickM (Mar 8, 2008)

Why dont you post the pics of the jag sib in question here and see how many people think its a pure coastal????

Nick


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## ravensgait (Mar 8, 2008)

Nick , the photo is not mine to post but hey your welcome to snag it and start a thread of your own with it.. Randy


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 10, 2008)

I am guessing you guys are talking about this one?.....Photo Belongs to Collin Vestrand...Posted on another forum...Publically....As long as photo credit is given I don't see a problem with reposting it....I am guessing you guys are trying to prove this could be a real Coastal?.....I am curious what other Australian Keepers and Breeders think....Does this look like a Pure Coastal to you?


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Dave thats not a pure coastal, no way in the world ,
most of the owners of these carpets presume " incorrectly " that they own pure coastals ,


cheers Roger


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

*Yellow Male*

Hi All.

Heres a pic of our male coastal.




Cheers Kelly


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## gold&black... (Mar 10, 2008)

Here is a pick of Centralian11's snake...... As pure as it can get and looks better than my jungles.... Hope he doesn't mind me posting this pic.. Excuse the lighting..........


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

your jungles dont sound too good


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## gold&black... (Mar 10, 2008)

mate, considering my jungles actually came from some of AU's best line, this coastal was good........


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

ohhh,. why is my pic tiny?


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## gold&black... (Mar 10, 2008)

Here is a pick of one of my best jungles Freak. Hope u like.........


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

ok G&B thats a realy hot jungle 

saying a coastal look better than jungles ?
them are fighting words LOL


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## gold&black... (Mar 10, 2008)

Sorry mate, my mistake there....... What I was trying to get at was there r some good looking coastals too....... The pic that I posted was a stunner in it's own right.......


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

and i new your jungles were all good quality ,


cheers
Roger


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## gold&black... (Mar 10, 2008)

Mate, nothing compared to what u have or produce....... Wish I could get some of u'r animals.......


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## NCHERPS (Mar 10, 2008)

ExecutiveReptiles said:


> I am guessing you guys are talking about this one?.....Photo Belongs to Collin Vestrand...Posted on another forum...Publically....As long as photo credit is given I don't see a problem with reposting it....I am guessing you guys are trying to prove this could be a real Coastal?.....I am curious what other Australian Keepers and Breeders think....Does this look like a Pure Coastal to you?



Got to say that I find it hard to believe that that is a pure coastal, never seen anything like it except when crossed with a jungle.


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## zulu (Mar 10, 2008)

*re Photo*

Why does everything outside australia come from putting supposedly two coastals together,two nothings make a nothing,so with the jags and tiger stripes etc etc some body has put a something down the line somewhere,mostly its jungle IMO


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## caustichumor (Mar 10, 2008)

I have seen some nice yellow coastals, I wouldn't call them gold but a honey/amber colour.


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## TrueBlue (Mar 10, 2008)

pure coastals can come in many shades of yellow, even very high yellow.

The animal pictured does not look to be pure thou.


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## caustichumor (Mar 10, 2008)

That's the problem, they are so variable in colour and pattern it sometimes becomes almost impossible to tell if it is a pure Mcdowelli.


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## Ryan93 (Mar 10, 2008)

ExecutiveReptiles said:


> I am guessing you guys are talking about this one?.....Photo Belongs to Collin Vestrand...Posted on another forum...Publically....As long as photo credit is given I don't see a problem with reposting it....I am guessing you guys are trying to prove this could be a real Coastal?.....I am curious what other Australian Keepers and Breeders think....Does this look like a Pure Coastal to you?


 
It looks like a B&G jungle too me


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## Ryan93 (Mar 10, 2008)

ExecutiveReptiles said:


> I am guessing you guys are talking about this one?.....Photo Belongs to Collin Vestrand...Posted on another forum...Publically....As long as photo credit is given I don't see a problem with reposting it....I am guessing you guys are trying to prove this could be a real Coastal?.....I am curious what other Australian Keepers and Breeders think....Does this look like a Pure Coastal to you?


 
It looks like a B&G jungle too me


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Yes coastals can have nice yellow , 
the best examples are prosserpine coastals bred by Jungeland Joel F 
but if that coastal has a dark black head pattern, 
then the yellow was more than likely inherited from the original ancestor with the black head pattern , ie 
possibly jungle or diamond blood ,
only in intergrade zones do wild coastals exibit dark black head patterns coming from other genetics mixed in by natural integration to give coastals a head pattern, the intergrades can be spectacular ,
but pure coastals have no dark head patterns , 
they have fractured or broken faded head paterns and the body patterns can be anything ,

Roger


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## sigridshurte (Mar 10, 2008)

it looks like a black and gold jungle becouse it is a black and gold jungle look at the head pattern there is no smugging coastals have smugged heat patterns and its got the black line through the eyes COUGH* COUGH* JUNGLE* COUGH* lol


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## zulu (Mar 10, 2008)

*re Photo*

Ide say the problem is that several subspecies are lumped under the same Mcdowelli name,the proserpines and others are different to those in the south,jags were not made from two standard looking Mcdowellis either from what ive seen,one looked cheynei although it may have been classified as Mcdowelli ( IMO LOL)


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 10, 2008)

zulu said:


> jags were not made from two standard looking Mcdowellis either from what ive seen,one looked cheynei although it may have been classified as Mcdowelli ( IMO LOL)




Plus, at the time the Jan had these animals and discovered the trait... chenynei where classified as McDowelli.

The same argument has been made about the Tigers in the U.S.
They were originally sold as a "Queensland" Carpet morph ( this could fit a lot of descriptions).
The original breeder never advertised them as "coastals" to my knowledge.

D.


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## ravensgait (Mar 10, 2008)

One thing you might want to remember is that the animal that Dave posted a photo of is from breeding two hypo line Jag sibs together. Those of us who have dealt much with Jags and their Sibs know that the Sibs tend to have crazy patterns and colors. 

Dave since you and Nick just have to throw that animal out here do you have any photos of its parents and grand parents?? Might be the pattern and color come from who the Jags were bred to but I doubt that crossed your minds... Randy


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## Wild~Touch (Mar 10, 2008)

What is in the pedigree will come out - nothing else can


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

*Male Coastal*

Hi Everyone,

Just reposting a pic of my Male Coastal, as for some reason the last one posted cant be enlarged and didnt show his yellow properly


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi Gecko, 
hes a stunner alright , amazing colouration,

but he looks to have something other than coastal in him, 
at a guess i would say jungle or atherton 

Roger


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## moreliainsanity (Mar 10, 2008)

Gecko :) said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just reposting a pic of my Male Coastal, as for some reason the last one posted cant be enlarged and didnt show his yellow properly
> 
> View attachment 45491


 
Gorgeous carpet Gecko, sell it to me


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## ravensgait (Mar 10, 2008)

Bredlislave,, the animal is a product of breeding a Jag sib to a Jag sib you get some really wild patterns and colors in Jag sibs that are often not at all like their parents or grand parents. So who knows what will come out when they are bred together, much like Het Granite IJs though no one has that I know of proved the theory with 50% hets but the hets have a quote different appearance than a normal IJ does. As we are talking about the product of a not real well understood Co Dom morph anything seems to be possible . If what you say was true then we'd never see anything different .

Gecko, that is one nice looking animal !!!!! thanks for posting it.. Randy


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## Frozenmouse (Mar 10, 2008)

if that snake is from the states it probably has lineage something like an arnhem land camp dog.


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## NickM (Mar 10, 2008)

Randy, you started this thread, I didnt, and whats more you started it to try and gather pics to prove me wrong in my assertion that this animal is not likely a pure coastal.

I also did not post the pic, so you brought this on yourself.

I will try to clarify all this since this is an Austrlian site and most here are probably not aware of the ongoing debate about the origins of the jaguar trait.

The black and gold "coastal' in this thread is supposedly a pure coastal. The parents are two jaguar siblings that were produced in Norway by Jan Eric Engal the founder of the jaguar gene.

There are some of us who have doubts about the official story that the jag gene spontaneously arose from normal coastals. Nobody really doubts it spontaneously arose , its the "pure coastal' part that is in question.

The early siblings that Jan produced looked much like the animal in this thread. As time and more generations have passed in the US and jags have been bred to normal coastals these yellow and black animals are no longer produced. Its as if whatever it is is being bred out of them, the more they are bred to coastals.

Jan at one point had pics of some of his adult coastals on his website, and they looked no diferent than our average grey/black/brown variety.

Its also worth pointing out that though many people believe there is a magical "sib" gene, this is not really genetically possible. There is no way that every animal in a clutch can be afected by a single heterozygous parent.

Some have even suggested that there may be a seperate color mutation in addition to the pattern mutation, but this would be so unlikley that the odds would almost impossible to calculate.

Spontaneous mutations are exeedingly rare events, the odds of any breeder having a new mutation spontaneouly arise are incredibly small, so what are the odds that two would arise in the same animal at the same time.

Also the bight colored sibs are not genetic, when bred to other coastals.

So the question is whats more likely , an impossibly rare occurence of a double mutation that follows no known pattern of inheritance, or that there is more to the story about the jag founder stock?


Its fitting that this thread came up on this site as its only a matter of time before jags will be sold openly in Australia.

Nick


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## moreliainsanity (Mar 10, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Hi Gecko,
> hes a stunner alright , amazing colouration,
> 
> but he looks to have something other than coastal in him,
> ...


 
Hi Roger

I'm just curious on how you can tell, any giveaway hints

Thanks

Leigh


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## zulu (Mar 10, 2008)

*re Photo*



DerekRoddy said:


> Plus, at the time the Jan had these animals and discovered the trait... chenynei where classified as McDowelli.
> 
> The same argument has been made about the Tigers in the U.S.
> They were originally sold as a "Queensland" Carpet morph ( this could fit a lot of descriptions).
> ...



Yes,a Queensland carpet morph could be anything,most of whats classified as Mcdowelli in the northern area of queensland dont look like a coastal Mcdowellis bumole to me and ive seen allot over the years.In the Barkers book python of the world VOl 1 australia they show Mcdowelli going right up the east coast and darwins on the NW coast of cape york peninsular,dont think Dave Barker had too much to go off at the time its such a vast area and there has been limited research as its generally thought of as low priority.Those working with these species overseas can onley go off the classifiacations thats put in front of them and thats all we can do,shows what happens if the lumpers had their way and put allthe carpets and diamonds as one,they would be bred as one by many keepers i suspect.


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Randy quote 
One thing you might want to remember is that the animal that Dave posted a photo of is from breeding two hypo line Jag sibs together. Those of us who have dealt much with Jags and their Sibs know that the Sibs tend to have crazy patterns and colors. 

Dave since you and Nick just have to throw that animal out here do you have any photos of its parents and grand parents?? Might be the pattern and color come from who the Jags were bred to but I doubt that crossed your minds... Randy

Hello Randy, 
the fact that sibs produce non normal colouration would indicate thats sibs are far from normal or the normal sibs would look normal as the result of jag breeding, IE pure coastal to jag , and its been shown the sibs dont carry the jag gene, but what is it they carry to get better colours and different to the norm coastal looks, 
again its genetics from another sub species , 
the fact sibs have inhanced colours would be the indication the jag gene in its mutation form is not pure coastal, with the so call non jags in each clutch are in fact not normal coastals, the only reason that these sibs could have enhanced colours is because the jag mutation is not from a pure coastal to coastal breeding, 
this is the only way colour genetics can be introduced , the jag mutation itself is sponatanious , but the colours of the sibs indicates other genetics involved in inhancing colours,


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## ravensgait (Mar 10, 2008)

Gee by your reasoning then all those albino's you produce over there must not be Darwins lol might want to rethink that ..


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

its makes sence to me mate
the jag genetics has nothing to do with albino genetics , ????
last i herd Randy all hets for albino look normal, dont have inhanced colours or different to the normal pattern ,


and actually tiger striped genetics are not co dom, ????
they are recessive and co dom, 
big difference, 
breeding in a recessive manner gives you far better results than breeding co dom,

all i am trying to do is get everyone on the same page without misimformation that is out there ,
then we all know whats what ,

And Nick M 
your right 
we all know how high yellow jags are produced ? jag to diamond or jungle ?
and we all know how the sibs look when a jag is bred to a diamond or jungle ?
they look like Jans first hypo jag clutch with the high yellow jags and the normal sibs looking like jungles ,


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

Gecko :) said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just reposting a pic of my Male Coastal, as for some reason the last one posted cant be enlarged and didnt show his yellow properly
> 
> View attachment 45491


 


Jungle_Freak said:


> Hi Gecko,
> hes a stunner alright , amazing colouration,
> 
> but he looks to have something other than coastal in him,
> ...


 
Hey Roger, 

He is a pure Coastal, . 
What makes you question him?




moreliainsanity said:


> Gorgeous carpet Gecko, sell it to me


 



ravensgait said:


> Bredlislave,, the animal is a product of breeding a Jag sib to a Jag sib you get some really wild patterns and colors in Jag sibs that are often not at all like their parents or grand parents. So who knows what will come out when they are bred together, much like Het Granite IJs though no one has that I know of proved the theory with 50% hets but the hets have a quote different appearance than a normal IJ does. As we are talking about the product of a not real well understood Co Dom morph anything seems to be possible . If what you say was true then we'd never see anything different .
> 
> Gecko, that is one nice looking animal !!!!! thanks for posting it.. Randy


 
Thanks guys


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## ravensgait (Mar 10, 2008)

JF having seen them and what they produce I do know and if you look at what I said about the granites or better yet take a look at some ball morphs. Or really any species on this planet. You can argue all you want but we are talking about mutations here and the effects they have on subsequent generations. 


Go on about it all you want but I've seen them and what they produce have you?? And besides who knows what the Jags were bred to, heck I've seen photos on this site posted of say a Coastal that people here will say that looks like a Jungle or has diamond influence ETC ETC. So instead of trying to instruct me on something I know why don't you see if you can get Nick or Dave to run down the info on the non Jags in those breeding's. Seems rather hypocritical to attribute the appearance of that animal only to the two Jags involved when there were other snakes involved in making that animal . So there is no real way to say where it came from and heck Nick and you guys are always going on about how we just have mutts over here maybe those other snakes were mutts and who cares lol .. Randy


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## ravensgait (Mar 10, 2008)

Nick I posted this thread to find photos and if you look they prove you wrong. Now as for the Jag thing hey I don't mind, well that is if this time you have some verifiable proof to back up what your saying. If that's the case knock yourself out and for once prove something you say.. Randy


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Randy ,
this is just my opinion mate ,
this is just how i see it, 
no one knows for sure, and im no expert LOL

Mr Gecko , 
i dont mean to offend you either but the extra bright colours are a give away thats there may be something else in your coastal, 
but as he is now yes hes a coastal, but to get his bright colour, he does have something extra in him in his past , 

now Randy i am sorry to rave on and on, 
im just a boof head with a opinion, 
everyones got one , LOL
cheers guys ,
i better split now 
Roger


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

So Roger what you are saying is there cant be pure Coastals with nice colouring? meaning anything showing yellow colour must be cross???????,.. I think you might find a few people that might disagree,. me being 1

I have another female that is almost 3 years with similar colouration which I bought from a well known breeder of The Hawkesbury area, which is also guarenteed coastal.

By the way I am a female so thats Miss Gecko (The little female icon and pink and purple writing kind of give that away)


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## moreliainsanity (Mar 10, 2008)

Gecko :) said:


> So Roger what you are saying is there cant be pure Coastals with nice colouring? meaning anything showing yellow colour must be cross???????,.. I think you might find a few people that might disagree,. me being 1
> 
> I have another female that is almost 3 years with similar colouration which I bought from a well known breeder of The Hawkesbury area, which is also guarenteed coastal.
> 
> ...


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

Mrs Gecko 
your coastal is very colourfull and beautiful,,
of course there are stunning coastals 
but i know what i can see , 
but unfortunatly its not what people want to hear so please disregard my posts ,
sorry Mrs Gecko


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## zulu (Mar 10, 2008)

*re Photo*



Gecko :) said:


> So Roger what you are saying is there cant be pure Coastals with nice colouring? meaning anything showing yellow colour must be cross???????,.. I think you might find a few people that might disagree,. me being 1
> 
> I have another female that is almost 3 years with similar colouration which I bought from a well known breeder of The Hawkesbury area, which is also guarenteed coastal.
> 
> ...


Thats no coastal geck,if it goes quack its probably a duck or been fooled round with by Morelia Hunter! :lol:


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Mrs Gecko
> your coastal is very colourfull and beautiful,,
> of course there are stunning coastals
> *but i know what i can see* ,
> ...


 
Roger,

Please dont read this reply as defensive.
Just wondering, what is it that u see to be so sure its cross with something?

Is it the pattern or markings or just because it has yellow colouration?


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## Gecko :) (Mar 10, 2008)

zulu said:


> Thats no coastal geck,if it goes quack its probably a duck or been fooled round with by Morelia Hunter! :lol:


 
?...


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## Australis (Mar 10, 2008)

Forever the smartrase Paddock warrior man. LOL


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 10, 2008)

ok Mrs Gecko 
the pattern looks diamond cross coastal and jungle to me , not pure coastal,
the clear but broken head pattern is very outstanding , 
normal coastals dont have such contrast in head pattern and body pattern or overall colour ,
i would think its very obvious ,

i just call them , how i see them, 
but like i said , its only one opinion ,

ZULE DUDE 
ha ha 
you crack me up,


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## angua21 (Mar 10, 2008)

not nearly as well coloured as some of the pics already posted, but i love my coastal, hehe. 
(even if he/she is psychotic..)


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## Wild~Touch (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey Randy
You're missing the point I am trying to make.
I am not talking about the two parents or the four grandparents, moreso great,great,great grandparents and beyond

What is in the pedigree will come out - Nothing else can....(think about it)

Cheers
Sandee


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 10, 2008)

ravensgait said:


> So instead of trying to instruct me on something I know why don't you see if you can get Nick or Dave to run down the info on the non Jags in those breeding's. Seems rather hypocritical to attribute the appearance of that animal only to the two Jags involved when there were other snakes involved in making that animal . So there is no real way to say where it came from and heck Nick and you guys are always going on about how we just have mutts over here maybe those other snakes were mutts and who cares lol .. Randy


 
Randy....Randy........Pop some pain killers....take another shot...self medicate...my brother...you really need to relax....I am sorry for posting that pic, I thought it would add to the thread for our fellow Australian Herpetoculturists to see what the whole thread was talking about...

I gathered from your posts, that you where trying to get Australian Keepers to post pics of "Real" Coastals that probably looked like the one I posted.....and instead...many didn't think it looked like a coastal......Infact I beleieve that one I posted was produced by breeding a Jag to a Sib? or Sib to Sib...I think....

The fact is...the only time I see offspring produced from from any Jag Breeding that the non jag offspring look remotely coastal...is when a Jag is bred to a blaintanly obvious coastal....then the nonjag offspring resemble more coastal. 

I just don't understand why you are so worked up about proving the original Jags where Coastals....???? out of all the Jag pairings done last year....how many of them where actually bred to an obvious Coastal?......Yeah thats what I thought....people working with Jags don't care....at least they shouldn't.....as most breed them with other things....such as diamond crosses....Bredl's......Irian Jayas.....you name it its been done.....so trying to prove the original Jags where Coastal...is kinda pointless...in my mind....WHO FN Cares....

Again....sorry for even posting in YOUR thread.....I appoligize....and don't make me out to be Nicks little "Yes Man"......thats lame....I encourage a good thread about Morelia....I don't get worked up....its called a discussion....this isn't politics....its Snakes....everyone needs to chill out...people have different views....thats cool....


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 11, 2008)

Maybe you can calrify or explain your request for high yellow coastals.....I am curious...

These are I believe directly related to the one I posted earlier....They are produced by Serpents Online...and photos belong to them....Here they are calling them coastals.....They claim.....

"*SerpentsOnline.com* is committed to producing only genuine mcdowelli, and will never compromise the integrity of our breeding stock. Our breeders have no Diamond, Irian Jaya, orJungle Carpet blood."

I am just showing these as an example......I am getting more to the point of using my own eyes more and more and to me.....If I really wanted to work with "Pure" Coastals"....In my mind...looking at these...it doesn't resemble what a Coastal (or what I think a coastal) looks like....But thats just my opinion....I am sure they where sold these as Coastals....and bought the jags as Coastal Jags....but my eyes tell a different story....I am not saying they are being sneaky...or dishonest...as generally everybody has adopted the statement that they are Coastals....but I go with what my eyes tell me....


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 11, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture7030.jpg got this 1 as a coastal but am told its a jungle so not so sure now 7 foot at 2 years olg


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 11, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture1188.jpg what would u say this carpet is just by looking


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## Australis (Mar 11, 2008)

I love your work gary!


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 11, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture7035.jpg thanks http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture7026.jpg


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 11, 2008)

gary.wheeler7 said:


> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture1188.jpg what would u say this carpet is just by looking


 
I can't tell you its not a Coastal....but in my humble opinion...it doesn't resemble what I think of as a Coastal....Again....my mental picture of a Coastal probably differs from many....

For Example...in the new book "Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons" on Page 21 there shows a picture of three "Coastals"...in ambush position...photo credit was to D. Goodall....To me if I was show that picture in the book and asked what I thought they where...I would have said Jungle...cause to me they don't look like coastals....weither I am in the wrong thats another story...lol,

I go by what my eyes and my mental picture tell me....reguardless of what the person trying to sell me the snakes says.....Once again its more of a personal thing...I personally...if that snake was for sale as a Coastal...I would think otherwise...but thats just me....

Just as the Hybrid/Intergrade/Cross breeders do, I try and replicate what I think each subspecies should look like...in my opinion....To me I appreciate what makes a beautiful Jungle a Jungle...and a Beautiful Coastal a Coastal....and I would buy and work with ones that represented that mental picture of each....

This debate has raged on for years now about Natural vs. Desinger.....Some people like the the natural look...and some people like the designer look....to each his/her own....Some people would say....try finding a Intense Electric Yellow and Velvet Black Jungle in the wild...probably won't happen,.....but in my mind...we have taken that wild look and just enhanced it without altering the basic set up of what makes a Jungle a Jungle....some people claim thats designer...I think of designer as more of making snakes that don't resemble anything in nature....

Everyone has their own "Mental Picture" of what each subspecies looks like.....and that changes from person to person....but there are general consistancies that would bring everones "mental picture" together...to one common theme.....Those general Consistancies are what scientists have used to distinguish and warrant subspecies status to these Carpets....if there wasn't characteristics that distinguished them apart...why would scientists give them subspecies status?......Point is they are different from each other...some people really like that...and want to continue to see great examples of each subpecies....and when the lines are blurred... I see many peoples "Mental Picture" change.....

A good friend of mine who works with Diamonds...and Diamond Crosses...said....his mental picture of Diamonds has changed....here in the states we have 88% Diamond crosses....and he says "if it looks too much like a Diamond...then its a cross, and if it looks like a Cross....its probably a True Diamond".....lol and he works with both....His mental Picture of Diamonds has changed....

Sorry for the long rant....drank to much coffee this morning..lol


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 11, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture7033.jpg


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 11, 2008)

would a jungle get 2 7ft in 2 years and its up to 8 pound now


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Sandee I understand what you and JF are saying but that still isn't true, things change if not all the Morelia in your country would still all look the same wouldn't they. You have localities of the same sub species ETC ETC .. 

Here Dave and Nick make the claim that the jungle looking animal in the photo Dave posted can't be a Coastal because the Jags that helped make it can't be Coastal's. Where I think that the animals appearance could be from the breeding of Morphs or the influence of the other animals bred to create it IE were they Coastals or something else. We can claim anything we want but without them providing any proof their assertions are just gossip.. 

When it comes to opinions on what looks like a Coastal or Jungle ETC I am inclined to go with the opinions of folks on sites like this who see the real deal more often than we do over here. But we are talking about the breeding of a Morph so who really knows.Randy


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Nice looking animals Gary !! But the chains are too much lol -- Hey I hear what sounds like chains rattleing !! Oh that's just my snake rattleing his chains LOL


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

ExecutiveReptiles said:


> Randy....Randy........Pop some pain killers....take another shot...self medicate...my brother...you really need to relax....I am sorry for posting that pic, I thought it would add to the thread for our fellow Australian Herpetoculturists to see what the whole thread was talking about...
> 
> I gathered from your posts, that you where trying to get Australian Keepers to post pics of "Real" Coastals that probably looked like the one I posted.....and instead...many didn't think it looked like a coastal......Infact I beleieve that one I posted was produced by breeding a Jag to a Sib? or Sib to Sib...I think....
> 
> ...


 
Dave I'm not really all that interested in proving the original Jag is or isn't a real Coastal, seems to me that is something that is of much more concern to you Nick and others like yourselves. Like you and Nick want people to just take your word for what your animals are I'll take Jan's word till someone provides some real proof to the contrary. You make claims but have no proof to back up what you say, yet you say it over and over again like by repeating it enough you can some how make it true. 

The picture you took and posted here from MPF was claimed to have been a sib to sib breeding. Oh and by the way sure we all use others photos at times, legally you should ask for permission before borrowing someones pictures like that. Like I did with the baby Woma photos I posted here I asked the owner if it was OK to use them. Yeah like I said I've done it too when I didn't know who owned the photos or they belonged to someone I knew but we should really ask..

I don't let the left hand comments of you Nick or anyone else get under my skin heck I've always looked at this as the comments of people I don't know and wont likely meet, though in your case that is likely to change as I am moving back home soon out west so if you do shows we'll likely run into one another and can discuss this to your hearts content if you like.. So no biggie the only thing that bothered me was bringing that crap into my thread when you could have started your own and discussed it there.. Randy


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 11, 2008)

ravensgait said:


> Here Dave and Nick make the claim that the jungle looking animal in the photo Dave posted can't be a Coastal because the Jags that helped make it can't be Coastal's. Where I think that the animals appearance could be from the breeding of Morphs or the influence of the other animals bred to create it IE were they Coastals or something else. We can claim anything we want but without them providing any proof their assertions are just gossip..


 
So why is it that when Jags are bred to an Obvious Classic Coastal looking mate....the offspring look more coastal? Or why is it that when you breed a Jag to an Irian Jaya the offspring seem to have that Irian Jaya Influence....But with these...there wasn't anything else mixed into it...they wheren't outcrossed to anything else...it was just a Jag to a Jag Sib....that created these...if following all the other Jag breedings these offspring should look more Coastal....in my opinion...

From your second part of your statement...you sound as though you are questioning the very same thing Nick is....that the Original Jags where not All Coastal....."or the influence of the other animals bred to creat it...IE were they coastals or something else"......

When a Jag is bred to a classic Coastal ......the non jag offspring look more classic Coastal....but in this case...they where not outcrossed...they where direct descendance of the original jag...no outcrossing to my knowledge was done...and when offspring from that pairing emerge from the egg looking like that...it does put questions in my head too....


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## ExecutiveReptiles (Mar 11, 2008)

ravensgait said:


> So no biggie the only thing that bothered me was bringing that crap into my thread when you could have started your own and discussed it there.. Randy


 
For that I appolagize.....I am sorry for adding to your post....On the picture part....I feel if someone posts thier pictures on a public forum...and doesn't specify to not use thier pics elseware....as long as photo credit is given I see nothing wrong with it...my pics I have posted have been used elsewhere...and as long as photo credit is given...I have no problem with it...now if someone posts thier pics on a public forum....and states...please don't reuse my pics....thats cool.....I might be in the wrong...but I don't see a problem with it...as long as photo credit is done...

Again...sorry for trying to have a discussion about this topic....I will make this my last post...and hopefully you will have people just post pics of thier High Yellow Coastals....sorry for "hijacking your post".....I misunderstood and thought this post was a discussion...and not just a request for pics....for that I am sorry...

Have fun everyone...ta ta


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## jay76 (Mar 11, 2008)

I have a few with yellow-gold but it doesnt look like some of the pictures posted. This is a prossy carpet


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## Vixen (Mar 11, 2008)

Nice jay, hope im still on the list for a few years down the track


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Jay that critter is hot.. Randy


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Dave why would you bring the discussion about the origins of Jags to this forum ? 
Whether I believe Jan's story is no different than I believing Nick when he says he has locality animals IE I'll take his word till someone proves different.. And no I wasn't doubting the ancestry of the Jags in that post I was wondering what they were bred to, too create the sibs that produced the animal we are talking about.. If you have some proof of that post away but I find it funny you and Nick lay the appearance of that animal at the doorstep of the Jags when there were a number of other animals involved in creating it..

Dave, you can believe who you like but has Nick ever shown you any real proof other than a friend of a friend who more than likely is jealous of Jan said this or that?? I know the answer but please post it here for all these folks who don't know it, since you just had to bring it up here.. Hey there may well be something questionable about the Jags but you and Nick are barking up the wrong tree...Randy


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm still trying to figure out what a "Pure" coastal is?????
Ha-ha.
They have such a variation in colors and pattern....not to mention the influence from the intergrade range.
I just don't get it.
Coastals from Atherton look WAY different to coastal in Brissy...
Brissies look different than the coastals in the southern intergrade range......
And I'm sure there are 100 different "looks" inbetween all of that.
So....WHAT is a pure Coastal? 
I judge from head pattern. 
Every coastal I've ever seen that didn't come from an intergrade range DOSE NOT have a solid head pattern.

With the importation of these animals being so long ago...GOD KNOWS what is in the ansestery of these animals we have in captivity.
I have had black and silver coastals with reduced head patterns produce animals with solid head patterns and more yellow and black coloring. Why would this be????
I think it's because these coastals I bred ....
might have jungle blood in them from 1000 years ago and very well may have been caught in a intergrade area.
It fits the description of a coastal but, what is that?

People seem to think about this in "black and white" and there's more color to life than "black and white".
I don't know why it would be so hard to understand.
If I have animals that are black and silver but, have strong head patterns....I'm going to say it's a coastal from intergrade range. 
If it has NO head pattern or very washed out....I'm going to say it's a central coastal, etc....

The bottom line is there is NO WAY we know what "type" of coastals we have in captivity. (at least in the states and Europe) 
There are a few documented cases but, all in all.....we're just guessing. 
Just as Jan did when the jag was produced, just as all of us are when breeding these animals together and the norm doesn't pop out.
Just guessing!
I seem to remember Jan coastals looking very "coastal like" BUT....They had strong head patterns. they screamed to me as being an atherton type coastal...not a central type coastal.
But again....what is a "coastal"? 
D.
D.

As Nick said....sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.


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## Gecko :) (Mar 11, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> ok Mrs Gecko
> the pattern looks diamond cross coastal and jungle to me , not pure coastal,
> the clear but broken head pattern is very outstanding ,
> normal coastals dont have such contrast in head pattern and body pattern or overall colour ,
> ...



Ok, . well thanks for your opinion,. 
I guess I should take it as a compliment, as I know my Python is a Coastal 

I have had experienced breeders come to my house and he has never been questioned, infact before I pulled him out, they said ' nice coastal', . they knew he was a Coastal.

Like I said I have others with similar colouring / patterning.

But I can tell you now he is no Coastal x Jungle x Diamond x whatever else you said you thought it was 


But, thanks for your opinion, everyone is entitled to one 

Zulu, . I must be a dumbass cause I didnt get your coment about the duck,. but I take it you were trying to be funny?  lol ??


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## Morelia_Hunter (Mar 11, 2008)

Yes he was trying to be funny.


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## moreliainsanity (Mar 11, 2008)

Would it be nice if we get a Certificate for every pythons we buy, but we don't so at this stage we are just guessing Unless you collected them from the wild yourself......


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Daves quote 

For Example...in the new book "Keeping and Breeding Australian Pythons" on Page 21 there shows a picture of three "Coastals"...in ambush position...photo credit was to D. Goodall....To me if I was show that picture in the book and asked what I thought they where...I would have said Jungle...cause to me they don't look like coastals....weither I am in the wrong thats another story...lol,
end quote 


Hello Dave ,
this is the exact point i am making that when coastal and diamond get mixed you can get carpets that look jungles , 
its happens here and overseas , 
but then these carpets get dumped into the coastal captive breeding gene pool , 
so we now see a hybrids given the tag coastal carpets by there breeders ,
and of course they must be pure because the breeders say so LOL
Roger




Derek wrote 
I have had black and silver coastals with reduced head patterns produce animals with solid head patterns and more yellow and black coloring. Why would this be????
end quote 

To Derek, 

Hello Derek 
it was obvious at day one when i first visiting web sites a few years ago from overseas that you all having trouble with the correct identification of your mixed carpet genetics you labelled coastals and you had little understanding of what pure coastals look like and all the different localities of coastals in the wild .
As all carpets were classified as one at one time so they were bred accordingly overseas 
Roger 


Derek quote 
I have had black and silver coastals with reduced head patterns produce animals with solid head patterns and more yellow and black coloring. Why would this be????
end quote 



those carpets you refer to are more than likely from cheynie habitat , thats why you get the colours you mention, and thats why they were not coastals ,???
but now they have bred to other carpets so yes there genetics are mixed and there description or there identification is difficult for you to understand ?
Also because those carpets were not your typical black and yellow jungle look , 
then they were incorrectly called coastals from the beginning , 
What a lot of overseas keepers dont realise is that there is slight to huge variations within each locality, of jungle carpet , some localities look similiar to others , 

the only place in australia you will find carpets that look like your so called coastals is in north queensland , ?????? ,
what overseas keepers fail to realise is that bright yellow jungles are not common , they are only a small percent of the colours in jungles , 
this is were overseas keepers made so many mistakes with indentification , calling many jungles without bright yellow and solid black banded , COASTALS ,
and then bred these non yellow solid black jungles to coastals ,
but with jungle genetics the dark black head pattern is dominant and is passed on the future offspring forever etc 

Recently Simon Fearn published a good artical Carpet Pythons of Tropical Queensland Townsville to Cairns in Reptiles Australia Vol 4 issue 1 
with lots of pics of the natural variations from townsville coastals through to tully and cairns jungles .
i would advise all to closely look at the pics, 


The stunning jungles we now have in captivity and incredible and as Dave says our designer jungles are spectacular leave the wild type for dead in looks ,




Roger


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

You have just repeated what I've been saying for years.

I've seen it happen here in the U.S with my own eyes.
Animals came in from all over the coast of Aussie with no location info.... and keepers bred them according to look. Even ones that are now claiming different.

This is how the markets got messed up to begin with. 
But, at that time.... a carpet ,was a carpet, was a carpet. No one can be blamed for that.

All we can do now is start over! Haha.
And...we are, little by little.
D.


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## Jason (Mar 11, 2008)

i love the US morphs etc, i think jags are the nicest morelia you can get! those jungle jags and jaya jags spin me out, they are fantatsic! but as far as a pure snake goes over seas i dont usually believe them! there is that much crossing going on over there that there is no way i could believe ahat i am bying is pure (most of the time) as for jags i highly doubt that they are pure mcdoweli! therfor any subsequent ofspring, be is jag or sib, is IMO not pure and thats IMO is why the sibs look unusual. lots of "pure' mcdoweli jag sibs look far from pure and i think the unusual colours patterns etc are coming from previous hybridisation.
this is just my opinion.

as for most of what has been said i can really see where roger is coming from, some great snakes in this thread! but lots look to have cheynie influence imo (be that atherton).


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Derek quote
> I have had black and silver coastals with reduced head patterns produce animals with solid head patterns and more yellow and black coloring. Why would this be????
> end quote
> 
> ...




Yes, I knew the answer to this....

When those animals were brought into the states in the 70's...they were referred to as "Atherton Coastals" which I always thought ...they were Jungles. 
But, I couldn't tell someone to "look at my jungles" without getting the "Morelia Police" after me and telling me I didn't know squat! LOL!!!
Most refer to these animals as coastals....But after researching this for years, I think they are jungles.






They had very strong head markings but ,where typical looking coastals with a gray, silver, white and black coloring.
Almost Axanthic looking.

Some also had an olive greenish...under tone.





They were slightly smaller than the coastals with the washed out head markings and had a higher "contrast" than the ones that were in the us at the time.

I've kept the breedings to this group and only this group since I got mine in 1988.
The gentleman I got them from...got his pair in the mid 70's as illegal imports with this info of "Atherton Coastals".
He only bred that pair together and the offspring together for as long as he had the group up until the early 1990's 
Looking forward to sparking the project back up as I haven't bred them for years.

Thanks for the words Roger.
I value your experience and info.
D.


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

Jason said:


> there is that much crossing going on over there that there is no way i could believe ahat i am bying is pure



Lets excludes the Jag gene for a minute.

There is A LOT more UN-intentional crossing going on than there is IN-tentional crossing ( with-in Aussie and outside!) and my post above (and this thread) is a perfect example of how it's happening. (IMO)
D.


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## TrueBlue (Mar 11, 2008)

some coastals DO have head patterns, they turn up from time to time.

JF,- sorry mate but i disagree, ive relocated many coastals on the sunshine coast that were as bright, and some brighter, yellow than the coastal miss gecko posted. Some can look more jungle than some jungles infact.
As for the jungle comments made, i once again disagree as some of the most intense yellow and solid black jungles ive seen have been wild animals.


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Derek these are the first good close up pics i have seen of these carpets 
They curtainly look like athertons with some coastal and jungle influence mixed together from their locality in the wild 
i do prefer a more solid black head pattern to be the confirmation of jungle ID 
as body pattern varies so much ,
Nice Athertons


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Hey Rob ,
good to see your input ,
i suspect the the coastal that had were from brisbane or further south that had the head patterns and good yellow colours, ?
let us know ?
a photo of these wild type coastals with head patterns would of great help too Rob if possible ?

cheers 
Roger


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Your know Derek I've asked you about those animals a number of times and never gotten a response from you,,,, as they look similar to my wild caught that I refer to as PNGs Such as this boy





I have a group of 5 , all but one have a greenish ground color the other being white (mother to my reduced pattern jags) while none of mine have the tipping in their pattern like the one you posted they look a lot alike. My biggest is under 6 feet long they also have longish heads and chondro looking noses, I refer to them as PNGs and sort of assumed they came from the east across the border.. Randy


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

Here's another of my males


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## zulu (Mar 11, 2008)

*re Photo*



Morelia_Hunter said:


> Yes he was trying to be funny.



Ime getting bites :lol: Come on Morelia Hunter wheres your sense of humour,when showed the little jungle darwins you said it was "Hybrid Vigour" stand up for the mongrels be proud !! :lol:


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

ravensgait said:


> Your know Derek I've asked you about those animals a number of times and never gotten a response from you,,,, as they look similar to my wild caught that I refer to as PNGs
> Randy



The animals I posted are actually different animals than my PNG animals....(which I also think are Athertons.)

You' re right though.... your animals look very similar to these PNG's of mine.













If I remember correctly....didn't you track some of your PNG animals back to Ben Siegel?
D.


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

One of mine came through Ben, the others were brought in with a group of IJs by a friend of mine. The only info we could ever get was that they came from east of Merauke and we know what is east of Merauke.. Randy


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

ravensgait said:


> One of mine came through Ben, Randy



I thought so...Although, I thought you told me you had gotten a pair before.
That would have been one of mine. 
Post pic's ..I like to see it now.
D.


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Some stunning carpets there guys ,
overseas breeders have a lot to be proud off 
no one can deny all the carpet morphs are spectular ,
with jags being the most amazing of them all,


Roger


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## TrueBlue (Mar 11, 2008)

JF, all of them were on the sunshine coast, bettween calundra and gympie which is 1 to 3 hours north of brisbane.
I must admitt that its not that common for them to have a distinct head patten, but some of them do, trust me.
Im not much of a photo person and lost interest in that years ago, but John Rudder took a stack of pics there for a while of wild carpets, hes bound to have a couple with head pattens. See what i can do.
Quite a few have been very yellow thou, and as said, some very high yellow.
Its like stripped carpets, a couple of years back everyone thought that they were rare, but they are in fact very common in the wild. The amount of stripped carpets ive relocated over the years is amazing.
Coastal carpets would have to be the most variable python there is, just when you think youve seen every colour/patten/morph there is youll come accross another one thats completely different to every other one youve seen. In 15 years of relocating carpets on the sunshine coast, i still had this happen.


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Yes Rob i beleive you 
Some Coastals can have nice yellows ,
i was just wondering what type of head pattern were on these coastals and how dark were the head patterns ?
as we all know the jungles have the strong black head pattern and coastals have a less complete head pattern that is mostly faded or lighter than the jungle type head pattern ,

what i am asking is ?
was it the coastal shape reduced head pattern that was dark black on the coastals you saw, 
or was it the true jungle head pattern ? 
like our jungles have in North Queensland ,

yes i would concede it would be possible to find a coastal with the reduced or fractured head pattern with darker pigment, 
although im sure it would be extreemly rare as i cannot recall seeing one etc 

or was the head pattern shape on those coastals you saw like a true jungle head pattern, ?
thats my only query mate,

as i would be surprized to see the jungle head pattern on a coastal from southern queensland ,

its a shame about not having any pics , 


Roger


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## ravensgait (Mar 11, 2008)

I haven't taken photos of him in a while this will give me an excuse to take some and post them..Randy


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## TrueBlue (Mar 11, 2008)

JF, yeah not the typical jungle patten, just the normal coastal head patten but very distinct instead of faded as they usually are. As said not common but they do occour.
One of the best carpets ive seen was at sunshine beach, jet black with bright fluro yellow bands and a distinct head patten. IMO to this day it was one of the best carpets ive ever seen including jungles and captive bred animals.
Another relocated in the sunshine coast hinterland was jet black with three bright yellow stripes, this animal also had good head markings if i remember correctly.


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

ok Rob , 
sounds like a very rare occurence of those colour phases ,
it must have been special to see those coastals ,

Roger


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## Clarky (Mar 11, 2008)

my avatar  has sum really nice yellow.. hes alot bigger and brighter now but


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## TrueBlue (Mar 11, 2008)

yeah they were nice animals.
Seen a few light coloured carpets down there with distinct head pattens too, so i dont think its just the black ones that can have it. Who knows why it occours, just another fairly uncommon form/morph i spose.


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## DerekRoddy (Mar 11, 2008)

Is it possible that these wild snakes could have been released jungles?

I've always wondered about the smugglers....if they were getting pull by wild life protection, would ditch their animals before hand.
Or even if.... they got "cold feet" and decided that "it wasn't such a good idea" and pulled over and let them loose after seeing or hearing about others being busted.

This ,as I see it, would be the BIGGEST problem presenting wild populations of natural occurring species.
This would be more of a problem than breeders "making them" to live in cages.

Just a thought as.... one KNOWS the odds are.... this has happened and will happen.
D.


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## NickM (Mar 11, 2008)

Randy, on the original topic:

I have never claimed any proof on the foundere Jag, I do know for that the story is not what Jan said it was.

If you want evidence that casts doubt on the Jag origins then take another look at those pics!!!!

It is possible that the founder jag was coastal, what it was bred to toprodcue those first offspring that left Norway who knows, the offsical story is that it was all coastals , but one glance at those aniamls makes one question that story.

I also take people at their word unless there is reason to doubt them, these pics are such a reason.

Dan , who produced the animal in question , bought its parents direclty from Jan Eric. 

honestly , you dont think these "coastals" are a bit suspicious?

You have bred jags, did any or your sibs like this?

Also, you keep mentioning that these are from a morph breeding, but remeber these are the animals that did NOT get the mutant gene and as such they should be phenotypically and genetically normal.

What I have always said is that there is reason to doubt that they are pure coastals and as such I wont work with them, you can choose to beleive the official story, but the evidence in in front of you.

Nick


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 11, 2008)

Derek, 
if the odd diamond exscaped and bred with coastals then ,
this would start off a gene pool in the carpet population that would look black and gold etc 
i have herd of coastals being found in diamond habitat that were obviously exscapees , 
but i suppose it could happen anywhere ,

Rob just a hypothetical scenario , 
not taking anything away from your eye witness accounts mate 

Also Jans web site is still not finished ?
anyone herd the latest on the progress of jaguarpython.com 


Roger


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## TrueBlue (Mar 11, 2008)

Derek / JF Im certain that what ive seen were pure coastals as they were all found on snake calls from too many different parts of the coast. The two black and yellow ones i mentioned before were just that, one from the hinterland, the other a few hundred yards from the sea. They were definitley not escaped jungles.
As said they are not common, but common enough and found over a large enough range to be deemed pure.
Same size and morphology as your common old coastal as well.
Ive only really been into keeping pythons for the last 5 or 6 years, before then i only kept a handfull and the rest were all elapids. Pythons never really interested me much, thats why when ever i saw these more unusual ones they would stick in my brain.


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## Wild~Touch (Mar 11, 2008)

Once on a call out about 10 years ago we picked up a bright yellow carpet and we let it go in a friends hayshed
this is one hour south of Brisbane between Warwick and Ipswich.
It was so brilliant yellow I have never forgotten it and in the days before bright yellow jungles were popular.
Bright yellow carpets do exist


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 16, 2008)




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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 20, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture8024.jpg so does anybody no what kind this is


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 20, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture8029.jpg


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## Earthling (Mar 20, 2008)

I read 1 and a half pages and gave up, dont know if your still chasing picks but heres one yellowish....orangish/Tannish....

garyweeler what are you up to again!


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## sabre (Mar 21, 2008)

Well now i don't know what to call this but love to find a high yellow to cross it with.
Was very yellow now going a more cream. this doesnt help the the argument.
















cheers


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## ravensgait (Mar 21, 2008)

Some killer snakes folks!! Thanks... Randy


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 21, 2008)

Earthling said:


> I read 1 and a half pages and gave up, dont know if your still chasing picks but heres one yellowish....orangish/Tannish....
> 
> garyweeler what are you up to again!


what do u mean what am i up 2 again just wantet 2 no what carpet mine was cos ive been told its jungle but was sold it as a coastal now its getting older im not so sure:x


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 21, 2008)

DerekRoddy said:


> Yes, I knew the answer to this....
> 
> When those animals were brought into the states in the 70's...they were referred to as "Atherton Coastals" which I always thought ...they were Jungles.
> But, I couldn't tell someone to "look at my jungles" without getting the "Morelia Police" after me and telling me I didn't know squat! LOL!!!
> ...


that last 1 looks just like mine so is it a coastal http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture1104.jpg


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## gary.wheeler7 (Mar 21, 2008)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg289/mavric_2008/Picture1023.jpg


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## mysnakesau (Mar 21, 2008)

This is a port macquarie intergrade so not sure if it counts but here goes anyway, this fella was a wild one I rescued out of somebody's laundry a couple weeks ago.


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