# "BLACK PRINCESS" The Hypermelanistic Darwin Carpet python



## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

Could the Snake Ranch staff give us a update on this beautiful carpet python . 








cheers
Roger


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## samson (Nov 6, 2010)

bloody oath yes please


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## thals (Nov 6, 2010)

+ 1 I would like to know more about this girl and whether she is still alive or not. Magnificent snake!


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## Kurto (Nov 6, 2010)

It almost looks like a Boelen's Python.


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## cockney red (Nov 6, 2010)

Now that, is gorgeous!


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## James..94 (Nov 6, 2010)

An Update would be great.
Gorgeous python to.


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## GTsteve (Nov 6, 2010)

Holy crap!


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## gycho (Nov 6, 2010)

defo on my wish list


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## hornet (Nov 6, 2010)

god i cant wait till these are available, i remember seeing her in reptiles australia a while ago, gorgeous animal


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## snakeluvver (Nov 6, 2010)

I want it i want it i want it i want it


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## AM Pythons (Nov 6, 2010)

a solid black morelia... drools... lol.. love it..


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## wasgij (Nov 6, 2010)

such an incredible looking snake, Update!!!

wasn't there problems breeding her or something?


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## zobo (Nov 6, 2010)

I think so as that pic has been around for many years now and still no word on offspring??


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## wasgij (Nov 6, 2010)

She just wont breed or infertile? either way, has anyone thought of artificial insemination? I've been curious about this for a while and wondering if anyone could shed some light.


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## justbrad (Nov 6, 2010)

what species is she? stunning btw!!


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## Wookie (Nov 6, 2010)

Kurto said:


> It almost looks like a Boelen's Python.


 
which almost looks illegal hahaha


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## Nighthawk (Nov 6, 2010)

Brodak_Moment said:


> which almost looks illegal hahaha



Almost doesn't the law break make *shifty eyes*


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## sara_sabian (Nov 6, 2010)

mazzaandbrad said:


> what species is she? stunning btw!!


If I remember correctly it's a hypermelanistic darwin. She's a stunner for sure.


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## NativeScales (Nov 6, 2010)

Gorgeous looking snake.


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## pythons73 (Nov 6, 2010)

Either way shes a incredible snake..defiantly own a speciemen like that...If J.W still owns that animal and he cant get it to breed thats ashame,interesting to know if she did breed if any hatchies would turn out as dark as her...


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## Jason (Nov 6, 2010)

iv emailed SR a few times regarding an update and they say nothing about her. If they cant breed her, put us out of our misery  the wait is killing me!


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## Sock Puppet (Nov 6, 2010)

mazzaandbrad said:


> what species is she? stunning btw!!





sara_sabian said:


> If I remember correctly it's a hypermelanistic darwin. She's a stunner for sure.


Read thread title.

Great looking snake


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## D3pro (Nov 6, 2010)

Yeah this thread was done 5 months ago with the exact same outcome... snake won't breed, you can't artificially impregnate her because she can't breed. Sad cause this animal is stunning, imaging this with an albino makes me drool a river.... but oh well lol


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

D3pro said:


> Yeah this thread was done 5 months ago with the exact same outcome... snake won't breed, you can't artificially impregnate her because she can't breed. Sad cause this animal is stunning, imaging this with an albino makes me drool a river.... but oh well lol



You want to show us the link to that announcement from Snake ranch or John W .


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## D3pro (Nov 6, 2010)

Jungle_Freak said:


> You want to show us the link to that announcement from Snake ranch or John W .


 
I got the info from the last thread  

+ If she was able to breed, (or if she was still alive) we would have some news about it. Since it's been 6 years now.


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## No-two (Nov 6, 2010)

Regaurdless of wether the snake is able to breed or not, I think we can all understand how much time a morelia project can take (unless it's co-dom). It's not as simple as growing everything fast and breeding it at 18months like yoiu can do easily with womas and antaresia. 

If it was being used to produce snows thats two projects, get homo 'blacks' (alternativley you could just bred albino x original black but you'd want to figure out the genetics first I assume), then double het albino/black, then it's only a 1/16 for a snow. Takes lots of time. If you wanted to produce 'snows' and had that animal, you wouldn't release the 'blacks' until you had the 'snows' as it gives everyone else the tools to make them.


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

I would just like to find out some facts from the owners etc.


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## junglepython2 (Nov 6, 2010)

No-two said:


> Regaurdless of wether the snake is able to breed or not, I think we can all understand how much time a morelia project can take (unless it's co-dom). It's not as simple as growing everything fast and breeding it at 18months like yoiu can do easily with womas and antaresia.
> 
> If it was being used to produce snows thats two projects, get homo 'blacks' (alternativley you could just bred albino x original black but you'd want to figure out the genetics first I assume), then double het albino/black, then it's only a 1/16 for a snow. Takes lots of time. If you wanted to produce 'snows' and had that animal, you wouldn't release the 'blacks' until you had the 'snows' as it gives everyone else the tools to make them.



You could be onto something there, it would explain the lack of official news. Still no gurantee's you would produce snows but it would take some time before you would know either way.


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

No-two said:


> Regaurdless of wether the snake is able to breed or not, I think we can all understand how much time a morelia project can take (unless it's co-dom). It's not as simple as growing everything fast and breeding it at 18months like yoiu can do easily with womas and antaresia.
> 
> If it was being used to produce snows thats two projects, get homo 'blacks' (alternativley you could just bred albino x original black but you'd want to figure out the genetics first I assume), then double het albino/black, then it's only a 1/16 for a snow. Takes lots of time. If you wanted to produce 'snows' and had that animal, you wouldn't release the 'blacks' until you had the 'snows' as it gives everyone else the tools to make them.




I agree , if the snake ranch are not disclosing that she has produced offspring then it would be for the purpose of breeding for the double traits combining albino and melanistic genetics etc .
There for it would not be in their interest to release any offspring untill they can offer large amount of stock to the public etc.
I wonder if they would be as expensive as the first release of Rough Scaled pythons ?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Nov 6, 2010)

The days of big money for snakes are long gone Roger. I heard from a credible source that this girl had some issues with her clutches. Dystocia seems to be the reason for the lack of this mutation not being represented in captivity yet.


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## da_donkey (Nov 6, 2010)

is there anyway of treating egg binding in reptiles, i have never come up against it?

donks


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## PhilK (Nov 6, 2010)

Anyone know where she came from? Wild caught? Bred?
If she was bred you'd think 6 years of the same parents pairing up would produce more of them, if it was genetic.. sounds like a dead end snake to me. Which is a pity as she stunning..



da_donkey said:


> is there anyway of treating egg binding in reptiles, i have never come up against it?
> 
> donks


 Yep sure is. Can do C section for one.


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

She is wild caught .


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## da_donkey (Nov 6, 2010)

well you would think the ranch would have at least tried to go down the C section option.

does the Dystocia affect the fertility of the eggs ?

donks


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> The days of big money for snakes are long gone Roger. I heard from a credible source that this girl had some issues with her clutches. Dystocia seems to be the reason for the lack of this mutation not being represented in captivity yet.



So she has had clutches but had some trouble as well.
Well thats news .
Thanks
Roger


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

da_donkey said:


> well you would think the ranch would have at least tried to go down the C section option.
> 
> does the Dystocia affect the fertility of the eggs ?
> 
> donks


Does not affect fertility and if the C section is done correctly the female can reproduce again also.


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## woody101 (Nov 6, 2010)

i thought taking animals from the wild was ilegal or is there a special licence that certain people can get to take from the wild like wasnt the bumble bee BHP wild caught ? how did it become on licence and able to be sold


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## Bez84 (Nov 6, 2010)

I thought eggs removed via c-section didnt last due to the fact that when an egg is layed as it comes out it is covered in a clean fluid that causes it to harden and so eggs removed via c-section would remain like soft watery bags.


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

woody101 said:


> i thought taking animals from the wild was ilegal or is there a special licence that certain people can get to take from the wild like wasnt the bumble bee BHP wild caught ? how did it become on licence and able to be sold


In the NT and WA people can be issued with permitts to collect,


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## JasonL (Nov 6, 2010)

woody101 said:


> i thought taking animals from the wild was ilegal or is there a special licence that certain people can get to take from the wild like wasnt the bumble bee BHP wild caught ? how did it become on licence and able to be sold


 
Both NT and WA allow wild animals to be caught and sold into the hobby by specific licenced people as part of a rescue scheme.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Nov 6, 2010)

She was collected in the Northern Territory by a snake relocation company called Snakes NT. They are not around anymore. They also found a second one that was killed on the road. This snake was sold for $25000 about 5 or 6 years ago. I remember the conversation with the then owner of the company and he could not believe somebody would pay that much for a snake. Needless to say, we would have bought it if it was still available. I think we missed out by a month.


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## Jungle_Freak (Nov 6, 2010)

Gee thats a lot of money for a unproven morph , beats the bumblebee price tag too.


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## thexbluexfairy (Nov 7, 2010)

I can dream right.


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## Bez84 (Nov 7, 2010)

Ive always wondered for example im out bush walking and come across an albino or some amazing new reptile morph are there actual legal channels one can go through to get it on licence, im not talking about dodgin up false paper work or anything along those lines i mean actual legal procedure to secure a new morph for future breeding.
As i doubt someone who found such an animal would just keep on walking.


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## 1issie (Nov 7, 2010)

I WANT IT!!!lol!!Im speachless,why did you have to show us!!,why!!


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## junglepython2 (Nov 7, 2010)

Bez84 said:


> Ive always wondered for example im out bush walking and come across an albino or some amazing new reptile morph are there actual legal channels one can go through to get it on licence, im not talking about dodgin up false paper work or anything along those lines i mean actual legal procedure to secure a new morph for future breeding.
> As i doubt someone who found such an animal would just keep on walking.



Not usually no. I know of at least one wild albino captured that had to be released.


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## Jason (Nov 7, 2010)

Bez84 said:


> Ive always wondered for example im out bush walking and come across an albino or some amazing new reptile morph are there actual legal channels one can go through to get it on licence, im not talking about dodgin up false paper work or anything along those lines i mean actual legal procedure to secure a new morph for future breeding.
> As i doubt someone who found such an animal would just keep on walking.


 
Who'd bother? seriously, in the excitement you'd just grab it. getting it on paper is easy enough! I know this sounds bad, but its exactly what 99% of herpers would do. imagine finding the first pure albino diamond for example, taking a few pictures and continuing on walking... haha, it just wouldn't happen!


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## Bez84 (Nov 7, 2010)

Lol i know it isnt hard to get it on paper, was just curious if there was an official way.


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## Bez84 (Nov 7, 2010)

junglepython2 said:


> Not usually no. I know of at least one wild albino captured that had to be released.



I saw the story on an albino squirel that was released, im sure he was happy in his 10 seconds of freedom before an eagle plucked his white a.s.s off the ground.


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## thals (Nov 7, 2010)

So true Jase, and being albinos they'd more than likely end up dead in the wild soon enough anyway so it's win win lol.


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## da_donkey (Nov 7, 2010)

i was told about 15 years ago by a snake demonstrator that his buddy was fishing on a river bank and a snake swam over towards him and up the bank.
The fisho grabbed a branch and bludgened the snake to death and then thought he might aswell take it home, he asked the snake demonstrator to come over and ID it...................much to john's dissapointment and horror it was infact an albino carpet python.

donks


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## Kenno (Nov 9, 2010)

If Snakeranch wanted the project to go public they would have done so already, speculating on a public forum will hardly produce any reliable information. 

Cheers


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## Jungle_Freak (Aug 20, 2011)

No-two said:


> Regaurdless of wether the snake is able to breed or not, I think we can all understand how much time a morelia project can take (unless it's co-dom). It's not as simple as growing everything fast and breeding it at 18months like yoiu can do easily with womas and antaresia.
> 
> If it was being used to produce snows thats two projects, get homo 'blacks' (alternativley you could just bred albino x original black but you'd want to figure out the genetics first I assume), then double het albino/black, then it's only a 1/16 for a snow. Takes lots of time. If you wanted to produce 'snows' and had that animal, you wouldn't release the 'blacks' until you had the 'snows' as it gives everyone else the tools to make them.



For the record Snows are created from Albino and axanthic genetics combining to produce a albino that has no yellow pigment , ie looks white all over with pink eyes.
It is a combination of these 2 recessive colour traits that is called a Snow Morph .

The Black princess is a Hyper melanistic carpet python.
Albino genes would remove all the black pigment leaving orange or yellow pigments .
The combination of albino and hyper melanism should produce one solid colour without any pattern..
cheers
Roger


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## orientalis (Aug 20, 2011)

This is a very exciting pairing (pure variegata) we are awaiting eggs from:. 
The male is mostly orange with yellow and the female is very dark brown, almost black.
"Xanthism" x "Melanism".............eggciting times ahead


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## Jungle_Freak (Aug 20, 2011)

Wow , 
What a spectacular project.
Good luck with that pairing Mick .
cheers
Roger


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## jinjajoe (Aug 20, 2011)

Photos Orientalis..... ones that we can all see.....


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## bundysnake (Aug 20, 2011)

Photos photos!!!


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## junglepython2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Jungle_Freak said:


> The combination of albino and hyper melanism should produce one solid colour without any pattern..
> cheers
> Roger



How do you figure that? Wouldn't the snake still be white and yellow with orange also possibly present?


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## Jungle_Freak (Aug 20, 2011)

junglepython2 said:


> How do you figure that? Wouldn't the snake still be white and yellow with orange also possibly present?



Not if the hyper is genetic.

A albino hyper would be all one colour IMO , its just a matter of guessing which colour .
It could be solid orange or maybe solid lavender . 
If you look at the head pattern on most darwins the colour is mostly black ,
but then in the albino form the head pattern is usually orangy coloured and sometimes a bit of lavender also.
But the lavender tends to fade with size and age, leaving the head pattern that orangy colour.
I could be wrong, its just my opinion.
Roger


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## jinjajoe (Aug 20, 2011)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Not if the hyper is genetic.
> 
> A albino hyper would be all one colour IMO , its just a matter of guessing which colour .
> It could be solid orange or maybe solid lavender .
> ...



I agree..... it depends on 'how many' of the colours are hyper....... & then which the next strongest is to mask out the others..... I hopefully will do it with the Blueys this year..... I am itching to see this question put to bed !!!


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## Waterrat (Aug 20, 2011)

Scanning through this thread, it seems like 500 people had simultaneous orgasm. :lol:


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## GeckoRider (Oct 23, 2011)

i think i will BUMP this.. i want to know what happened to it!


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## whyme (Oct 23, 2011)

I'd like to know what happened to it aswell!


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## Boof47 (Oct 26, 2011)

That is sexy!


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## kitten_pheonix (Oct 26, 2011)

I want =[


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## ghosts (Jul 14, 2012)

Tonight.. Brian Barczyk and the business of reptiles 05/29 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio

its not dead john still has it at snake ranch. Have a listern at 90:00 mins


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## woody101 (Jul 14, 2012)

John didnt want people knowing i guess haha


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## pythrulz (Jul 14, 2012)

Princess was a hypermelanistic darwin problem being Even If It could breed theres only one other In captivity there Incredible rare I have heard from a reliable source that this snake has since died but that may be a rumour and the only person that could confirm that Is john that owns the snake ranch as well as gosford reptile park


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## ghosts (Jul 15, 2012)

pythrulz said:


> Princess was a hypermelanistic darwin problem being Even If It could breed theres only one other In captivity there Incredible rare I have heard from a reliable source that this snake has since died but that may be a rumour and the only person that could confirm that Is john that owns the snake ranch as well as gosford reptile park



why would it be a problem if only one was in captivity? there was only one albino darwin found (at the time) plus there is more than just one solid black darwin in captivity. it is alive and well, listen to the link....


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## dickyknee (Jul 15, 2012)

junglejags said:


> Tonight.. Brian Barczyk and the business of reptiles 05/29 by Moreliapythonradio | Blog Talk Radio
> 
> its not dead john still has it at snake ranch. Have a listern at 90:00 mins



Well it was alive when Brian visited John's place , how long ago was that ??


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## ghosts (Jul 15, 2012)

around may 2010, but i sent an email to brian and he said it was still alive in january this year and still is to his knowledge


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## abnrmal91 (Jul 15, 2012)

junglejags said:


> around may 2010, but i sent an email to brian and he said it was still alive in january this year and still is to his knowledge


Wouldn't it be better to get the info from Johns mouth instead of second hand info from the US. I respect Brian but it would be better to get info from closer to home.


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## ghosts (Jul 15, 2012)

Yep let us know how you go with that...


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## saximus (Jul 15, 2012)

junglejags said:


> why would it be a problem if only one was in captivity? there was only one albino darwin found (at the time) plus there is more than just one solid black darwin in captivity. it is alive and well, listen to the link....



Hypermelanism is polygenic I think? So, unlike albinos, which could reproduce the mutation within two generations, hypermelanistic would take much longer. That's my understanding anyway


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## junglepython2 (Jul 15, 2012)

saximus said:


> Hypermelanism is polygenic I think? So, unlike albinos, which could reproduce the mutation within two generations, hypermelanistic would take much longer. That's my understanding anyway



As the darwin in question is so strikingly different to a wild type there is a fair chance it will be monogenic like the hypermel blue tongues. Or it could possibly be not genetic at all.


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## Frozenmouse (Jul 16, 2012)

I have this hyper melanistic male he does have dark chocolate colored banding and seems to get darker out of season ,but is definitely the darkest nt carpet i have seen besides the female one in this thread.


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## abnrmal91 (Oct 18, 2012)

Good news snake ranch have announced (another forum so no link but PM if you want it) that they have got a clutch out of The Black Princess, hopefully everything goes well with incubation and they can prove this project out. Cant wait to see how this project pans out.


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## Trench (Oct 18, 2012)

I could cry with joy


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## damian83 (Oct 18, 2012)

Woohoo little princess's every where lol, love to know how they turn out


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## RedFox (Oct 18, 2012)

What a pretty princess even if her offspring are half as nice as her it would be wonderful.


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## Justdragons (Oct 18, 2012)

Ive only just read this thread and im super pumped ay.. how exciting.. the next few years will be awesome for the hobby.. new snake morph and the new beardy morphs that are cooking atm.. all very exciting...


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## moosenoose (Oct 18, 2012)

Joiuses!! A black snake! Hope you got a tourniquet to stop the poison being spread if it bites you 










Very pretty


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## wasgij (Oct 18, 2012)

Holy crud! So she's not infertile! Do you know how they did it? Just regular breeding or artificially? 
Fantastic news in any case, good luck to them!


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## -Peter (Oct 18, 2012)

Mine has darkened up very nicely.. Just a few white spots.
View attachment 268071


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## Dash667 (Oct 18, 2012)

-Peter, pics didn't work


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## -Peter (Oct 18, 2012)

Dash667 said:


> -Peter, pics didn't work


Its the crap pic loader here on APS, it never works. It'll have to wait till I get home.


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## damian83 (Oct 18, 2012)

peter, where do you live??? :lol:


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## JasonL (Oct 19, 2012)

A lot of keepers have been waiting for this snake to do something... it is great news for those who are serious about carpet morphs.....
Hey Peter thats a pretty speccy critter there, M or FM?


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## Marzzy (Oct 19, 2012)

I asked today and the dude knew nothing about it some of the keepers are just dopey as or so far up themselves, though there are some really good ones but today wasn't as good as my last visit.


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## abnrmal91 (Oct 19, 2012)

Marzzy said:


> I asked today and the dude knew nothing about it some of the keepers are just dopey as or so far up themselves, though there are some really good ones but today wasn't as good as my last visit.


So you asked about it at the reptile park? If so only not all the people at the reptile park are involved with snake ranch.


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## Marzzy (Oct 19, 2012)

Yeah they said that.... Think only the more experienced would get to.

I just thought since all the snakes are kept in the same bit they might know.


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## mungus (Oct 19, 2012)

-Peter said:


> Mine has darkened up very nicely.. Just a few white spots.
> View attachment 268071



Black spray paint not counted.........lol


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## girdheinz (Oct 20, 2012)

Marzzy said:


> Yeah they said that.... Think only the more experienced would get to.
> 
> I just thought since all the snakes are kept in the same bit they might know.



Snaje ranch is at a different location a few 100kms north. Nobody gets to go there.


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## wokka (Oct 20, 2012)

I notice the Snake Ranch adds now descibe them as distributors as opposed to breeders, so their animals may now come from a variety of locations. This would enable a variety of management strategies which may account for the new found success with the "Black Princess".


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## benjamind2010 (Oct 20, 2012)

girdheinz said:


> Snaje ranch is at a different location a few 100kms north. Nobody gets to go there.



A good thing, as reptile thefts are a huge problem among even many trusted people, I'm glad they've distanced their breeding facility, not only for security purposes, but also a calmer environment in which to keep and breed their snakes, much better than in a noisy city. As far as security goes I myself would never tell anyone where I keep my womas which are my pride and joy, and only one person here knows where I keep them, and I would never conduct business at my home nor recommend anyone else do so if they have even the slightest doubts.


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 20, 2012)

benjamind2010 said:


> A good thing, as reptile thefts are a huge problem among even many trusted people, I'm glad they've distanced their breeding facility, not only for security purposes, but also a calmer environment in which to keep and breed their snakes, much better than in a noisy city. As far as security goes I myself would never tell anyone where I keep my womas which are my pride and joy, and only one person here knows where I keep them, and I would never conduct business at my home nor recommend anyone else do so if they have even the slightest doubts.



Kariong a noisy city?


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## benjamind2010 (Oct 20, 2012)

GeckoJosh said:


> Kariong a noisy city?



Kariong is fairly quiet, but for security purposes a more secluded location is better. I know that there have been a spate of thefts from the Reptile Park, so I think that is what prompted them to move their breeding collection to somewhere further away. I don't know specifically where their breeding collection is but I was told it's in northern NSW.


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## -Peter (Oct 20, 2012)

I should make it clear that my animal is not variegata but spilota spilota.


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## Madders (Nov 5, 2012)

This is awesome! Hope it's all good news


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## Madders (Nov 5, 2012)

This is amazing! Hopefully it's all good news


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## Norm (Nov 5, 2012)

-Peter said:


> I should make it clear that my animal is not variegata but spilota spilota.



Interesting...would love to see some better pics


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## Xeaal (Nov 5, 2012)

Omg how gorgeous is that?!!

- - - Updated - - -

Omg how gorgeous is that?!!


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## sunglow (Nov 5, 2012)

wokka said:


> I notice the Snake Ranch adds now descibe them as distributors as opposed to breeders, so their animals may now come from a variety of locations. This would enable a variety of management strategies which may account for the new found success with the "Black Princess".



they have brought hatchlings in for a while I know personally of a whole clutch of bhp being brought before even out of the eggs.


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## woody101 (Nov 6, 2012)

What would a black carpet snake be worth?? Ive been offord a almost pure black carpet snake and was wondering if it would be worth my time in breeding it to try make a jet black carpet snake.


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## The_Geeza (Nov 7, 2012)

who the hell would want a Black python ffs..when there r such nice lookers around....OUCHHHHHHHHHH....OK ill have 5 lol


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## crazzzylizard (Nov 7, 2012)

Wait my friend got his spotted fram snake ranch and he went to park to get it or did they just move the breeders and take offspring to park. And also who the hell thinks Ktown (kariong) is a noisy city


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