# Oenpelli python



## kenny1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Hi guys, I have been looking to buy a Oenpelli python but haven't had much luck finding someone willing to sell.
What are the going rates for one of these stunning animals?
Has anyone had any experience with them?
I hear they are challenging but very rewarding if cared for in the correct way.
Show us some pics if you are lucky enough to have one (or more)
cheers kenny


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## Monitor_Keeper (Jan 25, 2012)

haha


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## Ramsayi (Jan 25, 2012)

kenny1 said:


> Hi guys, I have been looking to buy a Oenpelli python but haven't had much luck finding someone willing to sell.
> cheers kenny



You would be hard pressed even finding someone who has them let alone willing to sell as there would be none being kept in this country (at least legally).


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## Scleropages (Jan 25, 2012)

Arnt they being pre-sold for when they are captive bred at 30k a pr?


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## kenny1 (Jan 25, 2012)

you can get anything with the right colour money.
I have had the opportunity to see one in the flesh and since then I want one.
It wasn't all that long ago it was impossible to get a rough scaled python, now they are available for $300 and up


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## Ned_fisch (Jan 25, 2012)

It's a while before they'll be available, and they won't be cheap, $15, 000+.
Roughies may be cheap now, but It'll be long time before Oenpelli's are that cheap. People with the money need to get the pairs, if their found, then they'll need 3+ years to breed them. And even then, no one knows exactly how to breed them as of yet.


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## MathewB (Jan 25, 2012)




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## K3nny (Jan 25, 2012)

kenny1 said:


> you can get anything with the right colour money.
> I have had the opportunity to see one in the flesh and since then I want one.



i'm honestly questioning your intentions now with this statement, sorry but it had to be said


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

Awesome summation, Matthew. I could use that pic 150 times a day.


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## kenny1 (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't expect to get one too cheap, but I believe there are a few around that have been breed over the past few years maybe I was mislead by the owner of the one I saw, as he told me there are a few trickling into the market.
I just assumed it was above board after seeing his massive collection of Aussie pythons whilst picking up one I bought off him legally


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## Red-Ink (Jan 25, 2012)

kenny1 said:


> you can get anything with the right colour money.
> I have had the opportunity to see one in the flesh and since then I want one.
> It wasn't all that long ago it was impossible to get a rough scaled python, now they are available for $300 and up



With the right kind of money why not go with or donate to the people searching... it would bring you to owning an oenpelli a lot closer than it is now. Even with the right kinda money now to flash and find one. They would still be illegal in captivity.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 25, 2012)

kenny1 said:


> I don't expect to get one too cheap, but I believe there are a few around that have been breed over the past few years maybe I was mislead by the owner of the one I saw, as he told me there are a few trickling into the market.
> I just assumed it was above board after seeing his massive collection of Aussie pythons whilst picking up one I bought off him legally



This guy got a name?


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## SamNabz (Jan 25, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> This guy got a name?



They never do...


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

It was probably the lettuce eater, with a disguised spotted.


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## hughesy (Jan 25, 2012)

You can pre order a pair of hatchlings for $15k through Gavin Bedford I read on the net, anyone else read this?


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## kenny1 (Jan 25, 2012)

Yeah


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## reaver (Jan 25, 2012)

For Sale | Albino Snakes Pythons Gavin Bedford Darwin Australia


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

For Sale | Albino Snakes Pythons Gavin Bedford Darwin Australia

It's only EOI...proceed with extreme caution. There are a bazIllion licensing issues yet to come.


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## kenny1 (Jan 25, 2012)

reaver said:


> For Sale | Albino Snakes Pythons Gavin Bedford Darwin Australia



awsome
cheers kenny


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## Megzz (Jan 25, 2012)

So what if it doesn't work out? They lose the 15k?


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

I doubt the Doc would take their money, he's a great bloke. But, $15k for an animal that you might be able to have, one day...


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## hrafna (Jan 25, 2012)

yep pay 15k for an animal you might see in about 10 years time! great deal!!!!! while you are at it, i have a wonderful place in the lost city of atlantis to sell you, it has amazing water front views! 1mil and that is a bargain.


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## Vincey (Jan 25, 2012)

hrafna said:


> yep pay 15k for an animal you might see in about 10 years time! great deal!!!!! while you are at it, i have a wonderful place in the lost city of atlantis to sell you, it has amazing water front views! 1mil and that is a bargain.


it better have panoramic coral views & a guard shark inclusive or I can't see it snagging anything over 800k.
thats my offer unless you have the above mentioned. good day sir


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## coastalboy (Jan 25, 2012)

Point has been proven that they are for sale, and someone does own them. Stop posting sarcastic comments. With yous all posting these comments put's across that yous are all jealous in some way!!! stop with the S*#t.


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## ron_peters (Jan 25, 2012)

Im just glad that he has been given the permission to work with them, means a step forward. I wish him much success


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## hrafna (Jan 25, 2012)

Vincey said:


> it better have panoramic coral views & a guard shark inclusive or I can't see it snagging anything over 800k.
> thats my offer unless you have the above mentioned. good day sir


 mate, not only does it have panoramic coral views, the guard shark comes with free laser attached, if james bond comes over for a visit unannounced he is screwed!


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## Darlyn (Jan 25, 2012)

coastalboy said:


> Point has been proven that they are for sale, and someone does own them. Stop posting sarcastic comments. With yous all posting these comments put's across that yous are all jealous in some way!!! stop with the S*#t.



Point has been proven that you can put a deposit on a snake that the seller doesn't have, nothing else.


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## saximus (Jan 25, 2012)

Are the pre-payments a way to help fund the search for them or a way to find people who are definitely interested to get an idea of numbers?


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## hughesy (Jan 25, 2012)

Think it's a bit of both saximus, but it does say if you want to just help find them you can do a 4 day camp etc cost of around $4000


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

I also may have some one day, which may have offspring, which may be for sale at some point in the future. Mine are only $5000. Make cheques out to 'cash'.


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## hrafna (Jan 25, 2012)

i wonder how many people are out there that have wildcaught and are now waiting for gavin's ones (if ever) to be established so they can slip them into the market? the opportunity is there for someone very smart to do something illegal and highly profitable!


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## coastalboy (Jan 25, 2012)

Darlyn said:


> Point has been proven that you can put a deposit on a snake that the seller doesn't have, nothing else.



Well if that is so NOT true then, why doesn't someone report the guy for false advertising aye?? have you rang him to see if it legit or are you just going off everyone else BullS*#t.


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## Darlyn (Jan 25, 2012)

coastalboy said:


> Well if that is so NOT true then, why doesn't someone report the guy for false advertising aye?? have you rang him to see if it legit or are you just going off everyone else BullS*#t.



What is not true? The guy is advertising you can put a deposit on an oenpelli in the hope he may one day have a clutch to sell.
Read the thread!!!


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## KingSirloin (Jan 25, 2012)

hrafna said:


> i wonder how many people are out there that have wildcaught and are now waiting for gavin's ones (if ever) to be established so they can slip them into the market? the opportunity is there for someone very smart to do something illegal and highly profitable!



...Now that you have told them how, lol 


I wonder if he'd accept a near new motorbike, only 12 months old and of comparable market value instead of cash. It wouldn't be wasted, he could ride it into the bush to look for more! That's my offer.


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## Exotic_Doc (Jan 25, 2012)

Why would anyone in their freakin right mind pay for something at that huge expense, when it may not be available for god knows how many years. Does this guy think everyone is freakin stupid? There i said it...and i dont care who he is.


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## smeejason (Jan 25, 2012)

Exotic_Doc said:


> Why would anyone in their freakin right mind pay for something at that huge expense, when it may not be available for god knows how many years. Does this guy think everyone is freakin stupid? There i said it...and i dont care who he is.


Here is some help with working out who this nobody trying to rip off people is. :shock:Looks pretty dodgy to me and I have never seen him on a forum so how could he know anything about snakes:lol::lol::lol:
::Reptile One::


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## PythonLegs (Jan 25, 2012)

Nobody has questioned the Docs cred as a herper. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a doctorate in sales, though,


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## olivehydra (Jan 25, 2012)

Exotic_Doc said:


> Why would anyone in their freakin right mind pay for something at that huge expense, when it may not be available for god knows how many years. Does this guy think everyone is freakin stupid? There i said it...and i dont care who he is.



Some folk might see it as an investment (either moral, financial or both). I used to donate money to WWF for many years, I’ve yet to see a panda, but I don’t really care. 

Fact of the matter is it will take some considerable time and money to bring these animals into the hobby and if and when they do become available, these “idiots” who originally invested, will no doubt be thought of as greedy price fixing capitalists??? I’m sure there will be no shortage of interested people in the project and I wish them good luck.

BTW, I have no interest (or means) to be involved, just stating that perhaps ones person's idiot, is another person’s genius.


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## deebo (Jan 25, 2012)

Exotic_Doc said:


> Why would anyone in their freakin right mind pay for something at that huge expense, when it may not be available for god knows how many years. Does this guy think everyone is freakin stupid? There i said it...and i dont care who he is.



some people might because they have the means and want to see them brought into the hobby and see a captive bred population established. Im sure a lot of people put their money towards things they believe in without any thought of getting a return - its called the greater good......


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## Wrightpython (Jan 25, 2012)

If he can get licence to capture wild stock to breed and sell can anyone get same licence or is he special somehow? If anyone can get same licence those people knocking him and his fees should get own licence and try to do it themselves that way he wouldnt have to put his nuts on the line and can just buy a pair of you.


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## Scleropages (Jan 25, 2012)

I'd pre-buy a pr if I had the money , good cause and Gavin's not out to rip anyone off ( I don't even use or like ReptileOne) lol


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## Darlyn (Jan 25, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> If he can get licence to capture wild stock to breed and sell can anyone get same licence or is he special somehow? If anyone can get same licence those people knocking him and his fees should get own licence and try to do it themselves that way he wouldnt have to put his nuts on the line and can just buy a pair of you.



You should apply for a licence, let us know how you go.


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## shortstuff61 (Jan 25, 2012)

PythonLegs said:


> Nobody has questioned the Docs cred as a herper. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a doctorate in sales, though,



"Now, some 40 years later, with numerous science and business degrees under his belt..."

That's close enough for me!


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## Red-Ink (Jan 25, 2012)

If I had the 4k to burn... I'd love to get out there with him. I certainly would learn more bout reptiles than I would criticising people on APS keyboard herping.


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## deebo (Jan 25, 2012)

agreed red-ink - would be a fun trip to a part of the part of the country most people would never see if nothing else.....


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## saximus (Jan 25, 2012)

I think I'd be too intimidated. I'd feel like a little kid who got a python for Christmas compared to someone with that much knowledge


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## abnrmal91 (Jan 25, 2012)

Good luck buying one, however it will be very very very hard to find one in captivity. The are a fantastic looking python & something different. I would think it will be at least another 5-10 years before they will be somewhat, easily available.


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## Wrightpython (Jan 25, 2012)

Darlyn said:


> You should apply for a licence, let us know how you go.



i wasnt knocking him for getting licence i was meerly pointing out that obviously he has funds and knowledge and has certain pulling power.. i have non of these however if i had funds and knowledge and was able to get harvesting licence i would certainly do it for the good of the hobby and as i have said on many other threads im in it for the love so i would probably give young away. Even if payment was made it would be on a fund trip only basis any excess proceeds would be donated to a worthy charitie like wires.. Before you dis someone check who they are and what values they have. I might already be on waiting list for all you know.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm really quite upset with some of the comments that I've seen on this post ...... obviously some of you have no idea of Dr Gavin Bedford's credentials or what an almighty effort his journey has been to bring the Oenpelli Pythons into captivity. He has worked tirelessly for the last 10 years to finally be able to bring this about. There would only be a very small handful of people who could have achieved this and Gavin has finally succeeded. 

I'll post the last couple of paragraphs from his article in the January issue of _Scales & Tails Australia _which might help to shed some light on his incredible, and painstaking journey to bring this to fruition.

*Quote from Gavin's article 'In search of Silver Ghosts' in the January Issue of Scales & Tails Australia:
*_I have done many things in my life chasing reptiles but can honestly say this is without doubt the highlight. This experience is so remote the only thing I can liken it to is being in the Antarctic. We are dropped in by helicopter and that is the ONLY way in and out. This is Aboriginal country, so you can’t even be there without a permit and a guide. And this is perhaps the one and only time that permits will be issued for this animal, the mighty Oenpelli Python, so once they are in captivity there will be no reason to go looking for them. I am therefore searching for anyone who thinks, like me, that this is an awes__om__e once in a lifetime experience to c__om__e with me and hunt the “silver ghosts”. Many things in life we forget with time, but I can guarantee you will remember this experience for as long as you live. If you are interested please email me on [email protected] and I will let you know when we plan to go and all the costs involved. Or speak with Kakadu Culture Camp or check out www.albinopython.com.au_
_Over the next few years I aim to bring this magnificent animal into captivity with the blessing of the Traditional Owners, the Northern Land Council and Parks and Wildlife NT, to breed in a cooperative with the Traditional Owners. This project has taken me 10 years and cost me more hair than I care to think about to get to this stage, and I really need YOU to be part of this slice of Australian herpetological history to see it bec__om__e reality._
_Cheers and hope to see you there!

_Hopefully some of you making comments on a subject that you know nothing about will think twice before becoming 'armchair experts' again. 
Cheers
Joy
P.S. On a personal note: Gavin thank you for your efforts. They are very much appreciated. What an exciting time this is.


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## Exotic_Doc (Jan 26, 2012)

But is paying 15 k in advance for something that you might never see rational. I understand donations, furthering the hobby, and the large intrest in a new native snake in captivity. I honestly cannot understand people 'PAYING' in advance for a pair, 15 THOUSAND DOLLARS.....Damn i wish i could be out there helping out. Im not proffessional herper or whatever. Im focusing on the money factor. Why dont we call them donations instead? JMO...to each their own. I am talking about the financial aspect, not his character....


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## PythonLegs (Jan 26, 2012)

Haha..the all-knowing Editor speaks. We're all happy to see the python in captivity, Joy, all that's being questioned is the strategy of selling an animal pre-birth, that hasn't been raised with any degree of success out of the NT, nd with no idea on licencing issues, which will almost certinly arise..rmember the rubbish that went on when the RSP was released?

Calling everyone involved in a debate an 'armchair expert' doesn't help anyone, or help prove your point.


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## smeejason (Jan 26, 2012)

_

_Hopefully some of you making comments on a subject that you know nothing about will think twice before becoming 'armchair experts' again. 
Cheers
Joy
P.S. On a personal note: Gavin thank you for your efforts. They are very much appreciated. What an exciting time this is.
[/QUOTE]
*could not have put it better Joy*


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## Tildy (Jan 26, 2012)

I reckon a better strategy on his part would be to pre sell them but ask for a few hundred deposit with the rest of the thousands to be payed when you pick up your animals. I reckon he would get way more people on board if he did that. Seriously wish I had the $4k to go out snake searching tho. That would be an awesome experience!


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## The Reptile Outlet (Jan 26, 2012)

PythonLegs said:


> Haha..the all-knowing Editor speaks. We're all happy to see the python in captivity, Joy, all that's being questioned is the strategy of selling an animal pre-birth, that hasn't been raised with any degree of success out of the NT, nd with no idea on licencing issues, which will almost certinly arise..rmember the rubbish that went on when the RSP was released?
> 
> Calling everyone involved in a debate an 'armchair expert' doesn't help anyone, or help prove your point.



Please re-read my comments ....... not everyone was called an 'armchair expert' and not everyone's comments upset me, only a certain couple. 
I welcome a good debate as much as the next person but I'm careful to speak only on subjects that I know something about and not open my mouth and make myself look a fool.
Cheers
Joy


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## glebo (Jan 26, 2012)

Hello all. I am glad to see a robust and heartfelt debate over this issue. Over the coming months I will try to get the whole saga of obtaining permits and speaking with elders and Government agencies and the many and varied views that people have had and still have over this project. Let me say I am proud to bring this animal into the hobby when it happens. But as so often happens when people are passionate about something they fore-go other things they could be doing. In this instance I have foregone a nice Government job (or research) on whatever salary they would pay me to spend my time, energy and passion trying to help our hobby. I understand that the cynical view is that I am doing it to feather my nest or some other greed driven motive. Again I can only say that all the information about this project is on my web site and I have been very open and transparent about what I am trying to do since I actually got the *permit to collect* some pairs of this animal to breed. I have had a few people offer to partner with me financially on this project, but I cannot in all conscience do that, with the only way I can fund doing this project is to pre sell some animals as was done with GTP's, RSP's, Albino Carpets and many other animals over the past few years. I am offering them at a price that is low to compensate for the loss of income in interest from the pre-purchase over time (however many years it takes) and can only express my gratitude to anyone who does support this project. Please can I ask all those who are in this debate to read my web site _carefully_, including the terms and conditions because I do not want to rip off anyone and never have, but as I say I don't have the capacity to pull this entire project off without your help. I have tried to answer every email regarding the tours to Arnhemland which will start some time in May but I'm still waiting for my Aboriginal partners to confirm dates then I will let you all know. Thanks and hope this helps. Gavin Bedford (Albino Python - Australia's Amazing Albino Pythons and Snakes | Albino Snakes Pythons Gavin Bedford Darwin Australia)


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 26, 2012)

It always astounds me how so many inexperienced people think they have a better way of doing things. As with the RSP, the first step - the obtaining of permits - is a huge undertaking, with massive amounts of time devoted to developing strategies which are palatable to bureaucrats and other stakeholders - and with no guarantee of any return until the yes comes through. Clearly, the Oenpelli is even harder to locate than Roughies were, and the investment in time will be that much greater, still without any guarantee of success EVER, let alone in the short term. And then you have all the husbandry issues to work out - these pythons haven't been known for their quick adaptability into captivity.

If it does come to fruition - and who wouldn't wish Gavin all the success he deserves - it will because he will have lived and breathed this project 24/7 for years. Wrightpython, I venture to say you are very young and very idealistic... Gavin, on the other hand, has experience and wisdom way beyond yours, and is also doing this because he has passion. Unlike you however, he realises that he can't live on air alone.

I can only wish Gavin all the luck in the world, it looks like a carefully developed strategy.

Jamie.


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## killimike (Jan 26, 2012)

I still reckon Kenny should tell us who it is who already has oenpellis, and knows that they are coming into the market.


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## Darlyn (Jan 26, 2012)

I wonder if May is the ideal time to look for them or if that's just when he can get everything organised
for the search? I would have thought it would be cooler then and they wouldn't be as active, although
it be pretty hard going in the build up I guess.


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## Red-Ink (Jan 26, 2012)

killimike said:


> I still reckon Kenny should tell us who it is who already has oenpellis, and knows that they are coming into the market.



Meh... their not willing to sell them anyway, plus they might still be just hatchlings at 1.2 meters and 7 years old.


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## Jeffa (Jan 26, 2012)

Darlyn said:


> I wonder if May is the ideal time to look for them or if that's just when he can get everything organised
> for the search? I would have thought it would be cooler then and they wouldn't be as active, although
> it be pretty hard going in the build up I guess.



Perhaps, but they may possibly be seen alot more sunning themselves on rocks and in a more laxed state?


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## Wally (Jan 26, 2012)

Red-Ink said:


> Meh... their not willing to sell them anyway, plus they might still be just hatchlings at 1.2 meters and 7 years old.



My thoughts exactly.


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## abnrmal91 (Jan 27, 2012)

Red-Ink said:


> If I had the 4k to burn... I'd love to get out there with him. I certainly would learn more bout reptiles than I would criticising people on APS keyboard herping.


I would love go, I think I might need toput some money aside. Even if you didn't capture a Oenpelli it would be a fantastic herping trip, with an expert.


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## Wrightpython (Jan 27, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> It always astounds me how so many inexperienced people think they have a better way of doing things. As with the RSP, the first step - the obtaining of permits - is a huge undertaking, with massive amounts of time devoted to developing strategies which are palatable to bureaucrats and other stakeholders - and with no guarantee of any return until the yes comes through. Clearly, the Oenpelli is even harder to locate than Roughies were, and the investment in time will be that much greater, still without any guarantee of success EVER, let alone in the short term. And then you have all the husbandry issues to work out - these pythons haven't been known for their quick adaptability into captivity.
> 
> If it does come to fruition - and who wouldn't wish Gavin all the success he deserves - it will because he will have lived and breathed this project 24/7 for years. Wrightpython, I venture to say you are very young and very idealistic... Gavin, on the other hand, has experience and wisdom way beyond yours, and is also doing this because he has passion. Unlike you however, he realises that he can't live on air alone.
> 
> ...



What do you call young. Im not young i just have enough money from my two business's i dont need to get paid for snakes. and i do beleive i said gavin was more experienced. He is also doing this as a business venture however i would not. Lets call a spade a spade, if he manages to find pythons then manages to breed them he does stand to make a profit. This is a business and like most business it has risk and obviously rewards for Gavin outway risk. Good on him for doing what he feels is right hope he succeeds and his business flourishes. Oenpellies are easier to find than roughies were because he knows where to look and there has been recentsightings one of which is on here last week. If only Gavin could have got that blokes number he could have saved some money for his future customers.


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## benninsw (Jan 27, 2012)

Kenny may as well say who has them, as his already said he bought a legit snake off the bloke thats already enough info for him to get done. Now all they have to do is look into everyone he has bought snakes off..


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## Ramsayi (Jan 27, 2012)

benninsw said:


> Kenny may as well say who has them, as his already said he bought a legit snake off the bloke thats already enough info for him to get done. Now all they have to do is look into everyone he has bought snakes off..



Assuming he wasn't telling porkies that is.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> What do you call young. Im not young i just have enough money from my two business's i dont need to get paid for snakes. and i do beleive i said gavin was more experienced. He is also doing this as a business venture however i would not. Lets call a spade a spade, if he manages to find pythons then manages to breed them he does stand to make a profit. This is a business and like most business it has risk and obviously rewards for Gavin outway risk. Good on him for doing what he feels is right hope he succeeds and his business flourishes. Oenpellies are easier to find than roughies were because he knows where to look and there has been recentsightings one of which is on here last week. If only Gavin could have got that blokes number he could have saved some money for his future customers.



You are very full of words (and yourself it seems Wrightpython). You are quite wrong about the ease of finding Oenpellis compared to finding RSPs ( I know a lot more about this than you do) ... any other gems of wisdom for us here? How lucky you are that your two successful businesses allow you to consider philanthropy as a part of your herpetological adventure - perhaps we may all benefit from your generosity in the future... 

Please keep your response civil ...

Jamie


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## HerpFreak (Jan 27, 2012)

Oenpellies are easier to find than roughies were because he knows where to look and there has been recentsightings one of which is on here last week.
Could the fine gentleman please name the "recentsightings one of which is on here last week"?


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## waruikazi (Jan 27, 2012)

Joy i think it is best for the hobby, conservation and all the people involved that the arm chair experts stay in their arm chairs playing with their medi-evil weapons. 

At the end of the day the haters will hate, it all comes from the green eyed monster known as jealousy and there's not alot that can be done about it. 



Joy from S & T said:


> I'm really quite upset with some of the comments that I've seen on this post ...... obviously some of you have no idea of Dr Gavin Bedford's credentials or what an almighty effort his journey has been to bring the Oenpelli Pythons into captivity. He has worked tirelessly for the last 10 years to finally be able to bring this about. There would only be a very small handful of people who could have achieved this and Gavin has finally succeeded.
> 
> I'll post the last couple of paragraphs from his article in the January issue of _Scales & Tails Australia _which might help to shed some light on his incredible, and painstaking journey to bring this to fruition.
> 
> ...


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## abnrmal91 (Jan 27, 2012)

nightshift is fun lol.


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## Cockney_Red (Jan 27, 2012)

Blood in the water!


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2012)

HerpFreak said:


> Oenpellies are easier to find than roughies were because he knows where to look and there has been recentsightings one of which is on here last week.
> Could the fine gentleman please name the "recentsightings one of which is on here last week"?



It's not from last week but this was recently brought up again and it was only from August: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/field-herping-reptile-studies-5373/oenpelli-python-169000/


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## waruikazi (Jan 27, 2012)

What i don't get is that, over the last couple of years, whenever a thread on this snake turned up there would be dozens of members chomping at the bit saying we should do whatever we can to get them into captivity. 

Now we can and everyday people (who have the money of course) can contribute to this project. Either by pre-ordering the animals or by going out and finding them. But lo and behold out come the haters! Either somone is trying to get rich or stripes on their shoulder or is corrupt...

No one has a medi evil weapon pointed at you telling you have to hand over all your money. If it's not for you then don't do it. Pretty simple.


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## PythonLegs (Jan 27, 2012)

Ok, I'll opt out now..I'm allergic to infractions.


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## waruikazi (Jan 27, 2012)

PL do you have any idea what the costs are involved in a project like this? And have you looked into the terms and conditions of pre-purchasing a pair?

There is no doubt in my mind that Gavin will at very best break even, but if he did manage to make million what would be wrong with that? There are professional breeders out there, seeling reptiles is there main source of income. Why is that a problem?

And what is this albino mac gun jumping car crash?



PythonLegs said:


> It's not about 'hating'- nobody has questioned the passion that the doc has, or his contribution to the hobby. I think everyone with any history in the scene acknowledges the debt of gratitude we owe to Gavin. But- there are so many unknowns with the animal, such a troubling history to other specimens that have been taken into captivity, and the way they're being 'rolled out' into the public..to me it's the snake ranch albino mac gun-jumping car crash waiting to happen again.
> 
> Any 'newb' who admits to selling animals to make money would be mercilessly flamed, but because it's Dr.Gavin Bedford, that's completely different and we're supposed to sit down, shut up and applaud?


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## Red-Ink (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't think he's in it for the money...

The 15k gets you the oenpelli but more importantly...

It funds the search. and establishment in captivity

Now when they do get found, it may take awhile before they get established in captivity, which could mean years of his time and money.

Look at it this way if he does'nt get the funds to find the specimen then it won't get into captivity. If he doesn't get the funds but instead uses his own $$$, finds them, establishes them after a few years.... they would still be 15k to re-coup his cost. Unfortunately he by the looks of it needs the funds now to fund the search, no funds = no search, no search = no oenpelli. Simple mathematics...

15K is a lot of money.. so you can pretty well be sure the people who will "invest" want this animal in captivity and it won't be a newb chump out to make a quick buck. There's better things to invest 15K in to get a quicker more secure return...


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## hrafna (Jan 27, 2012)

gavin makes a real go of this then good for him. if he can sell them for that price, again good for him. but looking at it as a buisness stand point it is extremely high risk for someone to spend 15k on a pair of animals that A. nobody has, B. you have no idea when people will have the animals in hand and C. you have no idea how they will respond/breed in captivity. it can be many many years till you get a return on your 15k and anything can happen in that time such as a fatal accident or even licensing issues that may mean you can't keep that animal in your state. i am not saying that gavin will take everyone's money and run, but it is too high risk to spend the 15k. the 4k search is a much better option in my mind.

and since someone wants to drag me into an argument with him, again, it is spelt medieval mate!


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## Greenmad (Jan 27, 2012)

Why is return a big factor.


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## PythonLegs (Jan 27, 2012)

.


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## hrafna (Jan 27, 2012)

Greenmad said:


> Why is return a big factor.


because technically gavin is selling or having a presale of these animals at 15k, so yes a return for a sale is expected. i understand he needs to help fund his search but if he had asked for a 15k donation then returns wouldn't be as big an issue. he could then sort something out with those people down the road when things have been established. how many of these people purchasing these animals for 15k would be doing it if they couldn't get a pair down the road? if someone is in it for conservation purposes then why aren't they refusing the pair and just donating the 15k? why snakes? why not some endangered frog or lizard? these snakes are rare but there is no proof they are endangered and yes cane toads may become an issue but so far they have hurt numbers of snakes elsewhere but they haven't decimated an entire population of a snake species yet.


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## smeejason (Jan 27, 2012)

I just cannot work out why people are stressing over what others are putting their own money into. I am pretty sure all who are know that it is a risk and will be many years off ever getting a return let alone getting their animals but yet they are willing ... To me that shows that they are no in it to make big dollars . They could go buy many other adult pairs for 15k for a quick return. Hell I invested way more into a nicotine habit for no return and double that into my bowhunting habit for a wall of trophies, which my wife thinks is a really bad return. Where were all you people worrying about my bad investments. 
Gavin Through in some pigs and a buff and for 4 k I will find you dozens of bowhunters that will look for snakes as well as hunt for that price


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## waruikazi (Jan 27, 2012)

hrafna said:


> because technically gavin is selling or having a presale of these animals at 15k, so yes a return for a sale is expected. i understand he needs to help fund his search but if he had asked for a 15k donation then returns wouldn't be as big an issue. he could then sort something out with those people down the road when things have been established. how many of these people purchasing these animals for 15k would be doing it if they couldn't get a pair down the road? *if someone is in it for conservation purposes then why aren't they refusing the pair and just donating the 15k? why snakes? why not some endangered frog or lizard? these snakes are rare but there is no proof they are endangered and yes cane toads may become an issue but so far they have hurt numbers of snakes elsewhere but they haven't decimated an entire population of a snake species yet*.



Now you're not only questioning the motives of Gavin but also questioning the motives of prospective buyers. 

As for questioning why this species and not another. That is stupid defetist attitude, we will always find another species that could use a helping hand, that does not mean that this species isn't deserving of being insured in by captive populations. That is not a good reason for doing nothing. You are also forgetting the rest of the information that will be collected on the West Arnhem stone country's biodiversity.

And they are listed as vulnerable, what is the point in waiting until they are endangered or worse? I can give you a reference for that info if you like.


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## -Katana- (Jan 27, 2012)

I commend Gavin for doing this. In this country far to many of our native species are becoming extinct. Far better for a few individuals to be brought into captivity to create a buffer against that extinction.
Look at the Woma as a prime example.
It's still listed as an endangered species and yet it breeds readily and adapts well to the point they are very common within the herp. hobby.
We need pioneers who can workout the husbandry of these animals so that the hobbist can keep these animals in the future with a degree of proficiency.
These things, like anything else require funds.
It's a pity our forefathers didn't have such a future centered attitude.
Imagine how many now extinct species would now be alive if they did.
How may of you would dip your hand in your pocket and give a donation if the Thylacine was found in limited numbers and were going to be brought into captivity to be bred?
This, IMHO, is exactly the same thing.


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## Vincey (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't really know very much about this project apart from small articles & a few threads on here.

I've never in my life found people so rude and ignorant. I openly admit I'm not clued into this subject but neither are most of you!
This man is trying to do something for the whole community. His passion drives him to do it, pretty sure he would try whether or not he has our assistance or money(as evidently shown over the years) but do you really see a 1-man-army get very far? He needs help, and that comes with financial aid and support in other areas. If you don't want to give this support then so be it, but don't criticize what he's doing just because you have your head so deep in the sand thinking it's all about the money.

Call it conservation, call it aiding a vulnerable species, call it getting new specimens for our Keepers List or even call it a Money Grab
It doesn't matter. At the end of the day he's not out to make huge dollars off of this project, as stated he has spent a lot of his own time and money in order to get as far as he has already. I can't stress enough if you don't have the money or have nothing positive to contribute then shut up.

I for one would love to see this animal re-populated, whether it's in captivity or not. 
As reptile & animal lovers you should see this for what it is.

And you know what? WHO CARES IF HE MAKES BIG BUCKS?!? He deserves every single penny he makes. He's helping a vulnerable animal and you're bitching about it.
You disgust me.


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## wokka (Jan 27, 2012)

If punters do look at it as an investment then those who jump in first will have the best chance of return. I paid the highest price I have heard of for a pair of Albino Olives, five years ago, when there wern't many around and got my money back many times over because I got in early. I'll be happy to do it again with Oenpellis or alternatively donate to the cause, Time will tell.


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## Wrightpython (Jan 27, 2012)

saximus said:


> It's not from last week but this was recently brought up again and it was only from August: http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/field-herping-reptile-studies-5373/oenpelli-python-169000/



Obviously you are a lot smarter than me pythoninfinate because no sightings of oenpellies ever however everyday we all stumble across rsp's in the wild Learn what you preach.



Pythoninfinite said:


> You are very full of words (and yourself it seems Wrightpython). You are quite wrong about the ease of finding Oenpellis compared to finding RSPs ( I know a lot more about this than you do) ... any other gems of wisdom for us here? How lucky you are that your two successful businesses allow you to consider philanthropy as a part of your herpetological adventure - perhaps we may all benefit from your generosity in the future...
> 
> Please keep your response civil ...
> 
> Jamie



How do you know that i have not already helped the herping world with my generosity. Not everybody has to shout from the roof tops every good deed they do otherwise its not a good deed, i may not have found lost species but i have helped many people realise there dream of owning reptiles before and after the licencing system came to be. I have some Diamonds and childreni hatching soon hopefully and ones yours if you want it. FREE unless you dont like being given something in which case donate $150.00 to wires and you can have pick of litter. By for now got polo ponies to feed.


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## snakes123 (Jan 27, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> This guy got a name?



Ohh no, its actually his friends cousins dads


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## eipper (Jan 27, 2012)

People just trying to cut down a " tall poppy"....seriously if Gavin makes some money from them it will pale in comparison to the amount of time invested.... Too many think about a cheque with a few zeros on the end and don't comprehend the amount of time and effort it takes to get to the end point.... 

Its a shame good luck and good herping

Cheers
scott


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 28, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> Obviously you are a lot smarter than me pythoninfinate because no sightings of oenpellies ever however everyday we all stumble across rsp's in the wild Learn what you preach.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know that i have not already helped the herping world with my generosity. Not everybody has to shout from the roof tops every good deed they do otherwise its not a good deed, i may not have found lost species but i have helped many people realise there dream of owning reptiles before and after the licencing system came to be. I have some Diamonds and childreni hatching soon hopefully and ones yours if you want it. FREE unless you dont like being given something in which case donate $150.00 to wires and you can have pick of litter. By for now got polo ponies to feed.



Ha... that's actually PYTHONINFINITE... Anyway matey, I have been quite involved with the Rough-scaled Python thing since the late 1970s, whern the first one was collected in the Kimberley by my good friend Ron Johnson, when we both worked for the Western Australian Museum, from which I parted ways in 2000. I'm a West Australian who has a long involvement with herpetological field collection - I worked for the museum from 1968 to 2000. I was also friends with Graeme Gow, and am very familiar with the early Oenpelli story (Graeme actually described the animal as a new species...), so I also know quite a bit about the history of the OP as well - maybe even more directly than you do ! 

Thanks for offer of a Diamond or a Children's, but I'll have to take a raincheck - I'm reducing my collection significantly atm, and I'll just stick to GTPs, Roughies (which were a gift to me from John Weigel) and a couple of Scrubbies from now on.

Cheers, Jamie


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## wokka (Jan 28, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Thanks for offer of a Diamond or a Children's, but I'll have to take a raincheck - I'm reducing my collection significantly atm, and I'll just stick to GTPs, Roughies (which were a gift to me from John Weigel) and a couple of Scrubbies from now on.
> 
> Cheers, Jamie


Dont forget your pair of Oenpellis when they are ready.


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## thomasssss (Jan 28, 2012)

Wrightpython;2122609e. I have some Diamonds and childreni hatching soon hopefully and ones yours if you want it. FREE unless you dont like being given something in which case donate $150.00 to wires and you can have pick of litter. By for now got polo ponies to feed.[/QUOTE said:


> ill have some free snakes hell ill even take both the clutches off your hands


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## El_Lagarto (Jan 28, 2012)

LOL, makes me laugh when people name drop on a public forum to make themselves feel special. Says a lot about the person behind the keyboard.

I wonder why it is the people who have really made a mark in Australian Herpetology don't feel the need to get on public forums and get into pointless arguments...


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## D3pro (Jan 28, 2012)

I don't get this thread... Everyone is going up and arms about the OPs when they wont be any available to the public for few more years.
But if someone is well connected and have the chance to obtain one legally after a lot of invested time and money, then good for them, I think Gavin has a great opportunity to establish a captive population and I'm sure serious enthusiasts and investors will see the value of his project. I don't think Gavin was thinking of the "Master-Key Ninjas" when decided on a price for the OP.

All this jealousy is making the hobby sour. Where are all the jolly people gone?


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## Radar (Jan 28, 2012)

If I had money to spare I'd happily pay out 4k for a couple of days in that landscape - it is expensive, but some people don't know what they are missing out on. I fully support Gavin's mission on a moral basis, pity I don't have the disposable income to do it finacially as well :lol:


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## Klaery (Jan 28, 2012)

As said earlier lets call a spade a spade. Money will be made. Paying the dosh and helping to fund the search is just like investing in a business and hoping for a return (some gorgeous OPs in this case). 

You know what though? I don't care. People make money everyday doing whatever job they do, running whatever business they do. 90% of those ventures don't have the positive side effects for others hobbies and for conservation that this will have. I am glad Gavin is doing it.


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