# Oxyuranus Temporalis



## blakehose (Sep 22, 2010)

G'day all, 

As I was just sitting about doing a bit of research on Australian Elapids, and a past very breif discussion about this species of Taipan came to mind. Which sparked some thought as to what research has since been undertaken in trying to improve knowledge of them and what has been discovered since. Eg their range, venom toxicity, diet. If anyone can shed some light on this that would be great!

Cheers, Blake.


----------



## najanaja (Sep 22, 2010)

all this topic in general is common knolledge on the internet and in print...

there is a book called ''Taipan'' the deadliest snake in the world...i think it a Peter Michigan book..
and also one called ''Taipans and Tigers''.

wikipedia probebly has it all on file...


----------



## blakehose (Sep 22, 2010)

I have had a look on Wikipedia and a few other files, but it would still be nice to hopefully hear some first hand knowledge on the topic.


----------



## Nephrurus (Sep 22, 2010)

Not much has been done on them as there are only two specimens in existence, both dead. 

-H


----------



## blakehose (Sep 22, 2010)

I read about these specimens, but was unsure if it had advanced any futher since they were found...Hopefully soon enough we will know more!


----------



## najanaja (Sep 22, 2010)

from what i remember...

the distrabution of this taipan is only know from the location from where they were found and i dont think many more have been found( central desert of WA)..
they were slightly less toxic than the coastal taipan.( this was based of the Coastal Taipan being the 3rd deadliest land snake and the Central Ranger Taipan classed as the 5th)..
they had the same growth pattern as a coastal but all retreived for testing were around the 3 foot mark.


----------



## ssnakekid (Sep 22, 2010)

just like more work needs to be done on pseudechis wiegelli and pseudechis butleri.


----------



## najanaja (Sep 22, 2010)

i remember Rob Bredl doing a study on Taipans ''oxyuranus'' and Blacks ''pseudechis''
and he says his familly knew of 4 unrecorded species together and he believed there would be another 10 specied of them discovered bt 2012


----------



## ssnakekid (Sep 22, 2010)

would mind finding out more info on that,are there and papers on venom comp of pseudechis butleri and weigeli.


----------



## da_donkey (Sep 23, 2010)

lol


----------



## eipper (Sep 23, 2010)

As yet no O temporalis have studied live to my knowledge, how sure on that data naja?


----------



## blakehose (Sep 24, 2010)

eipper said:


> As yet no O temporalis have studied live to my knowledge, how sure on that data naja?



Hopefully a specimen is captured soon, it will be interesting to find out how they compare to the Coastals and Inlands.


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Sep 24, 2010)

blakehose said:


> G'day all,
> 
> As I was just sitting about doing a bit of research on Australian Elapids, and a past very breif discussion about this species of Taipan came to mind. Which sparked some thought as to what research has since been undertaken in trying to improve knowledge of them and what has been discovered since. Eg their range, venom toxicity, diet. If anyone can shed some light on this that would be great!
> 
> Cheers, Blake.


I'm glad you raised this because I have been wondering the same thing. I am very curious about finding out more of this species too.


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Sep 24, 2010)

blakehose said:


> Hopefully a specimen is captured soon, it will be interesting to find out how they compare to the Coastals and Inlands.


 From what I understand there is supposed to be a feild trip happening in October to find some more O temporalis alive. I don't know if that is still going ahead but if it is I hope it will be fruitful and we can learn more about this very intriguing species.


----------



## blakehose (Sep 24, 2010)

SnakeyTroy said:


> From what I understand there is supposed to be a feild trip happening in October to find some more O temporalis alive. I don't know if that is still going ahead but if it is I hope it will be fruitful and we can learn more about this very intriguing species.



I have heard the same thing mate. From talking to someone recently it is definitely going ahead, I am praying that they find something!


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Sep 24, 2010)

blakehose said:


> I have heard the same thing mate. From talking to someone recently it is definitely going ahead, I am praying that they find something!


 Same here.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2010)

good news folks, there are now two specimens alive in captivety caught in a recent expedition, I just wish I was part of it.


----------



## blakehose (Oct 28, 2010)

That is absolutely awesome! I would have also loved to have been there. Is it a male/female pair?


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Oct 28, 2010)

PilbaraPythons said:


> good news folks, there are now two specimens alive in captivety caught in a recent expedition, I just wish I was part of it.


 
Three


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 28, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Three



Four 



Not really i just got caught up in the moment


----------



## Pythoninfinite (Oct 28, 2010)

Yep...


waruikazi said:


> Four
> 
> 
> 
> Not really i just got caught up in the moment


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2010)

Anybody have some pics to share?


----------



## blakehose (Oct 28, 2010)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Anybody have some pics to share?



That would be ideal...


----------



## blakehose (Oct 28, 2010)

Maybe Gordo was right after all - I hear whispers of 4 specimens being captured....


----------



## garthy (Oct 28, 2010)

blakehose said:


> Maybe Gordo was right after all - I hear whispers of 4 specimens being captured....


 
Can you shed some light for those of us that are still in the dark? I am fascinated by new species and have google alerts etc, but have heard nothing. Any details however brief would be appreciated.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Oct 28, 2010)

I believe one out of the four was pickled by the W.A Museum?


----------



## blakehose (Oct 28, 2010)

PilbaraPythons said:


> I believe one out of the four was pickled by the W.A Museum?


 
Possibly, sounds as though the Adelaide Zoo now has their share of them.

Garthy- From what I know, there was a planned expedition of herpetologists, biologists etc, though the DEC got in first and captured 4 specimens... My knowledge is limited though and would be better if another source could give accurate info.


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Oct 29, 2010)

That's awesome. I want to see one now.


----------



## moosenoose (Oct 29, 2010)

blakehose said:


> Hopefully a specimen is captured soon, it will be interesting to find out how they compare to the Coastals and Inlands.


 
Hopefully not. It'll only get killed, just like the first one.

I just find it ludicrous in this day and age with all the technology at our fingertips and we have to kill something to study it! Absolutely appaulling! It might have been okay to do 50yrs ago, but not now. God help any other "new" animals we find out there, because they're in for a rude shock.

ps: I wasn't aware they'd found more of them. At least that's something


----------



## blakehose (Oct 29, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> Hopefully not. It'll only get killed, just like the first one.
> 
> I just find it ludicrous in this day and age with all the technology at our fingertips and we have to kill something to study it! Absolutely appaulling! It might have been okay to do 50yrs ago, but not now. God help any other "new" animals we find out there, because they're in for a rude shock.
> 
> ps: I wasn't aware they'd found more of them. At least that's something




I would definitely hope that in this day and age, we are far past those sort of practises. Taking into consideration the advances in technology in recent years - testing and research should be achievable without culling the animals.


----------



## waruikazi (Oct 29, 2010)

What else are you going to use as a holotype?

It's a single animal that allows for a huge ammount of research. At worst you could call it a necesary evil. 



blakehose said:


> I would definitely hope that in this day and age, we are far past those sort of practises. Taking into consideration the advances in technology in recent years - testing and research should be achievable without culling the animals.


----------



## blakehose (Oct 29, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> What else are you going to use as a holotype?
> 
> It's a single animal that allows for a huge ammount of research. At worst you could call it a necesary evil.



Well I don't know jack-all about research/testing on these animals - so I apologise for my ignorance..


----------



## Jonno from ERD (Oct 29, 2010)

It is absolutely essential that native animals are lodged in museums, and not just one or two, but several from many different localities. For nearly every species this will have no negative effects on their population, but will assist in many different areas of conservation, especially taxonomy. Without dead animals in jars, it would be very difficult to describe new species (or assimilate identical ones), track distribution expansion or contraction (or extinction), or monitor morphological changes over time.


----------



## blakehose (Oct 29, 2010)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It is absolutely essential that native animals are lodged in museums, and not just one or two, but several from many different localities. For nearly every species this will have no negative effects on their population, but will assist in many different areas of conservation, especially taxonomy. Without dead animals in jars, it would be very difficult to describe new species (or assimilate identical ones), track distribution expansion or contraction (or extinction), or monitor morphological changes over time.



Now it all makes alot more sense - I was thinking about it on much more shallow grounds than that...
Thanks for the input Jonno


----------



## moosenoose (Nov 6, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> What else are you going to use as a holotype?
> 
> It's a single animal that allows for a huge ammount of research. At worst you could call it a necesary evil.


 
I call it pretty crap  

So we've got to kill another 5 Temporalis to get the collectors box set?

I hope we've got a few more than 5 Tasmanian tigers in museums around the place, because if we don't the next one spotted wandering out of the woods is a dead duck! :lol:

Perhaps we should be taking the approach of asking questions first before shooting, instead of visa-versa. I dare say there is more to be learnt from a live animal than a dead one! Such a backward turn-of-the-century mentality! Thank heavens doctors have moved on with the times otherwise we'd still be swigging whiskey before amputations! :lol: 

Just imagine what paleontologists would give to get their hands on a real live dinosaur!...my guess is he'd argue to the death that it'd far more valuable alive! 

I'm not, and never will be, sold on the let's kill everything new we find mentality. Such a waste!


----------



## BrownHash (Nov 6, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> I call it pretty crap
> 
> Just imagine what palaeontologists would give to get their hands on a real live dinosaur!...my guess is he'd argue to the death that it'd far more valuable alive!


 
They would probably kill it too so that it matched the rest of their collection... plus they've probably learnt their lesson from that Jurassic Park experiment


----------



## blakehose (Nov 6, 2010)

BrownHash said:


> They would probably kill it too so that it matched the rest of their collection... plus they've probably learnt their lesson from that Jurassic Park experiment



Yeah that one definitely didn't go quite to plan eh?


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 8, 2010)

Each to there own. But you do realize that if it wasn't for the temporalis holotype this species wouldn't have been described for us to argue over wether it should have been killed or not?

Besides, take an animal out of the environment, wether it is dead or alive makes no difference. It can no longer contribute in a natural way to biodiversity. 



moosenoose said:


> I call it pretty crap
> 
> So we've got to kill another 5 Temporalis to get the collectors box set?
> 
> ...


----------



## -Peter (Nov 8, 2010)

The first one found and used to describe the species is the holotype I think. The subsequent specimens used to confirm the taxon are the paratype.
Correct me if needs be.


----------



## garthy (Nov 8, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Each to there own. But you do realize that if it wasn't for the temporalis holotype this species wouldn't have been described for us to argue over wether it should have been killed or not?
> 
> Besides, take an animal out of the environment, wether it is dead or alive makes no difference. It can no longer contribute in a natural way to biodiversity.


 
Now that is a very valid point!


----------



## moosenoose (Nov 8, 2010)

garthy said:


> Now that is a very valid point!



Really? I know you can return a live animal back to the wild, but I'm not so sure about a dead one?

Anyway, I realize the whole point of originally taking stuff and banging it in jars 50yrs ago, but seriously....with what we've got today, at our disposal you'd think we'd have advanced a little further.

I do however find it amusing when I see everyone getting a little hot under the collar about a young brown snake despatched on a TV series, yet seem to think it’s perfectly okay to knock something on the head because it looks a little different.

The trouble is, it’s far easier to bottle something real than fork out money for a MRI scanner, or the like, which would undoubtedly tell a researcher more about an animal than they’d ever need to know. We’ve supposedly got DNA testing (correct?) that can tell us a quinzillion things about an animal. We’ve got advanced digital, hi-def photography available…but alas, none of this seems to be at the fingertips of modern day researchers…Nope, just stick it in a jar and file it away in a museum. I don’t get it.


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 8, 2010)

All those things are great but i don't know how practical doing an MRI on a live taipan would be :lol:

I haven't been involved with feild research, but i get the feeling that if animals weren't allowed to be collected and bottled and your above ideas were the only options available. The costs would be so prohibitive that very little research would be undertaken. 

The reality is one animal, or even a handful, won't make a significant impact on biodiversity. But the information taken from that one animal could. 



moosenoose said:


> Really? I know you can return a live animal back to the wild, but I'm not so sure about a dead one?
> 
> Anyway, I realize the whole point of originally taking stuff and banging it in jars 50yrs ago, but seriously....with what we've got today, at our disposal you'd think we'd have advanced a little further.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 8, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> Really? I know you can return a live animal back to the wild, but I'm not so sure about a dead one?
> 
> Anyway, I realize the whole point of originally taking stuff and banging it in jars 50yrs ago, but seriously....with what we've got today, at our disposal you'd think we'd have advanced a little further.
> 
> ...


 


waruikazi said:


> All those things are great but i don't know how practical doing an MRI on a live taipan would be :lol:
> 
> I haven't been involved with feild research, but i get the feeling that if animals weren't allowed to be collected and bottled and your above ideas were the only options available. The costs would be so prohibitive that very little research would be undertaken.
> 
> The reality is one animal, or even a handful, won't make a significant impact on biodiversity. But the information taken from that one animal could.



Dammit! I agree with both of you! Now what am I supposed to do?!?? :shock:


----------



## waruikazi (Nov 8, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> Dammit! I agree with both of you! Now what am I supposed to do?!?? :shock:



Find the middle ground and try to be a mediator! :lol:


----------



## Kristy_07 (Nov 8, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> Find the middle ground and try to be a mediator! :lol:


 
Too much effort for a Monday... I'll just sit back on the fence and let you two sort it out


----------



## moosenoose (Nov 8, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> All those things are great but i don't know how practical doing an MRI on a live taipan would be :lol:
> 
> I haven't been involved with feild research, but i get the feeling that if animals weren't allowed to be collected and bottled and your above ideas were the only options available. The costs would be so prohibitive that very little research would be undertaken.
> 
> The reality is one animal, or even a handful, won't make a significant impact on biodiversity. But the information taken from that one animal could.



Some good points. I'm not 100% sure why they do it the way they do, it just seems a little outdated. Considering it's only been in the past few years that Bryan Fry has actually taken the time-out to stick a monitors head in an MRI machine to discover they have venom glands rather than "bacterial saliva" speaks volumes to me about how backward we are in our "stick it in a jar" mentality.

Oh, and having troubles keeping an Eastern brown or a taipan still?? There's a guy here in Melbourne who gets his to sit real still while he de-fang-a-nates them...they seem to recover pretty well afterwards according to him :lol:  hehe


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Nov 8, 2010)

moosenoose said:


> Oh, and having troubles keeping an Eastern brown or a taipan still?? There's a guy here in Melbourne who gets his to sit real still while he de-fang-a-nates them...they seem to recover pretty well afterwards according to him :lol:  hehe


 Hahahahaha. Not mentioning any names. lol. the fangs are still there, it's just the venom glands that are evicted from the unsuspecting serpents head. Proper terminology would be de-venom-gland-a-nate..... :-D


----------



## ricochet1 (Nov 9, 2010)

*taipan pics*

hi all, Keep an eye out for the media release on the central taipan (temporalis ) tomorrow. there will be photos of live specimums. For your info to quell some of the conjecture there was 3 caught and two of them ended up in Adailade Zoo. a breeding pair. They are quite an awesome snake.
Once the media release is done more photos will become available.


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Nov 10, 2010)

Here ya go.
Rare western desert taipans housed at Adelaide Zoo | Adelaide Now


----------



## blakehose (Nov 10, 2010)

SnakeyTroy said:


> Here ya go.
> Rare western desert taipans housed at Adelaide Zoo | Adelaide Now



It's exctiting times eh?!! I reckon they look great. I can't wait until some good testing is conducted on them...


----------



## SnakeyTroy (Nov 10, 2010)

Yeah Me too. I can't wait to see where they fit in with the venom toxicity.


----------



## blakehose (Mar 23, 2011)

It's been a few months now since these specimens were captured... Has anyone got some fresh new information to share on the subject?


----------



## eipper (Mar 24, 2011)

they are doing well, settled and gaining weight. They were due to be milked quite awhile ago now but there has been a couple issues that i believe have been recently addressed.

Cheers,
Scott


----------



## blakehose (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Scott. Sounds as though things are going well then - hopefully soon enough there will be some good information available after a bit of research has been conducted. Venom toxicity, behavioural attributes etc. I find it all very exciting...


----------



## Waterrat (Mar 24, 2011)

ricochet1 said:


> hi all, Keep an eye out for the media release on the central taipan (temporalis ) tomorrow. there will be photos of live specimums. For your info to quell some of the conjecture there was 3 caught and two of them ended up in Adailade Zoo. a breeding pair. They are quite an awesome snake.
> Once the media release is done more photos will become available.



So, where is the long promised media release and more photos?


----------



## blakehose (Mar 24, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> So, where is the long promised media release and more photos?



I'm wondering the same thing Michael.... Hopefully those who have a bit to do with the animals will be able to provide some further information and photos in the near future.


----------



## XKiller (Mar 24, 2011)

Media relese? or at least one photo. 
same link as the one above...Rare western desert taipans housed at Adelaide Zoo | News.com.au


----------



## blakehose (Mar 24, 2011)

greenrx7 said:


> Media relese? or at least one photo.
> same link as the one above...Rare western desert taipans housed at Adelaide Zoo | News.com.au



I would think that there is something more extensive now available given the time frame between when the animals were captured and the present.


----------



## moosenoose (Apr 8, 2011)

So are there any photos other than the petrified thing that gets circulated around the net on this species of snake? I can't believe there is such a low profile on such a rare animal. I'd dearly love to see a pic of one!

My stance has still, and will not change, on killing stuff like this. It's just so 1800's. We can tell more about an animal these days with MRI and digital imaging etc than we ever could. Anyway, I wanna see some photos. Does anyone who has anything to do with these animals own a camera?


----------



## Waterrat (Apr 8, 2011)

I think some agreements have been signed.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Apr 8, 2011)

There is photo's and they are not rare

Rare taipans found in WA's Great Victorian Desert, head to Adelaide Zoo | Perth Now


----------



## Dannyboi (Apr 8, 2011)

I just read the Zoo times article on them..... 12 months till they are on display I can't wait.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Apr 8, 2011)

You should be able to track down the paper describing them in PDF on the net


----------



## Dannyboi (Apr 8, 2011)

No need I have the article on me with some pictures.


----------



## moosenoose (Apr 9, 2011)

That's great! Thanks for the link Steve1


----------



## spotlight (Apr 10, 2011)

najanaja said:


> all this topic in general is common knolledge on the internet and in print...
> 
> there is a book called ''Taipan'' the deadliest snake in the world...i think it a Peter Michigan book..
> and also one called ''Taipans and Tigers''.
> ...


 taipans and tigers is a dvd by rob bredle ?



SnakeyTroy said:


> Hahahahaha. Not mentioning any names. lol. the fangs are still there, it's just the venom glands that are evicted from the unsuspecting serpents head. Proper terminology would be de-venom-gland-a-nate..... :-D


the original animals all died due to there food not digesting ,turns out they need venom to help the process ?

can i get a breeding pair yet???? (the cages are ready!!)


----------

