# another croc shot at school this morning



## waruikazi (Feb 24, 2011)

We had another croc shot just over the fence from school at recess time today. This one is smaller than the others but was the first of the 4 or so that have been shot to be recovered. Boy was it an interesting morning!!!












I might be able to get some better pics later. 

The skull has been donated to the school and i have the job of cleaning it up and piecing it back together. Does anybody have some tips on the best way to do this?


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## -Katana- (Feb 24, 2011)

Dig a hole in a meat ants nest and bury it until it's picked clean.
The ants will clean the brain pan and all those really hard to reach places without damaging it.


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## byron_moses (Feb 24, 2011)

if u can find something big enough just boil it mate


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## Torah (Feb 24, 2011)

Shot ?? when and why ?


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## melluvssnakes (Feb 24, 2011)

Meat ants nest is definitely the way to go


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## dale1988 (Feb 24, 2011)

the bigger one in the other thread did they recover its body yet?


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## saximus (Feb 24, 2011)

Gordo that's incredible. One little thing like a faster flowing river and you get inundated with them. Looks like a good shot by the hunter. Nice and clean


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## waruikazi (Feb 24, 2011)

dale1988 said:


> the bigger one in the other thread did they recover its body yet?



No, the flood plain is running like a river so i'm guessing it along with the others have been washed away.



Zeezza said:


> Shot ?? when and why ?



This morning. We don't quite know why, i think it has something to do with the way the water is moving on the floodplain, but there has been a huge number of large crocs moving very very close to residential areas (i had a 3-4m jobbie less than 50m from my back gate last night and several smaller ones). This one just happened to be spotted in the wrong place at the right time.


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## Waterrat (Feb 24, 2011)

It was in very good condition too, looking at the bulky neck. Croc stew for dinner tonight?


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## waruikazi (Feb 24, 2011)

Haha yeah they dragged it off to the meatworks so i doubt this one will go to waste.


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## -Katana- (Feb 24, 2011)

I'd call dibs on that soft belly skin.
I do love croc skin handbags.


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## waruikazi (Feb 24, 2011)

The head has just been returned to us and is sitting in our canteen cool room lol. They must be planning on doing a proper cull because i just got word the the next one shot's whole body will be dontated to the school intact for us to disect and do whatever with. 

I'm not real keen on killing any that aren't needed to be shot... but wow this is going to be fun!


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## Waterrat (Feb 24, 2011)

Are you going to be the head pathologist Gordo? It's a wonderful job, especially if left for a day or two. It softens up the tissues, the organs get mushy but the best part is the stomach contents. Bits of old catfish fixed in the rotting sludge - the gastroliths are the more exciting part of the operation. Your students will love it! Don't eat breakfast on the day.


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## Pythoninfinite (Feb 24, 2011)

As someone who was a taxidermist for 30+ years, don't boil the skull - it can decalcify the bones and it will loosen the teeth and any ligamentary connections on the skull. The best thing to do is get a very sharp knife and remove as much meat and tissue as you can, then soak it in just cool water, changing it every 2-3 days until the tissue rots off. Very stinky until the process is almost finished, but should produce a good clean result. Crocs have all that tough connective tissue/skin on their heads and jaws, which you can only remove by rotting it off. Sometimes adding a bit of an enzyme-based washing powder can speed up the process - they begin the process of digesting the tissue fairly quickly (some of you will know how stinky clothes can be if you leave them in the machine and forget them... that's enzyme action and biodegradability!)

Be very careful as the process continues, that you don't lose teeth, or get them mixed up - croc teeth are designed to come out fairly easily, and once the connective tissue in the jaw begins to break down, they will loosen up and drop out.

Let me know how it progresses Gordo, and I can help get a good end product.

Jamie


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## saximus (Feb 24, 2011)

Haha well considering they are waiting for them to bloat and float to the surface before retrieving them I think there would already be some interesting things going on inside. Don't envy you on that part Gordo


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## Waterrat (Feb 24, 2011)

TO speed up the process and also to avoid the smelly side of it, add some KOH (potassium hydroxide) into the water, if you can get some. It will turn the meat into a pink jelly, easy to brush off with a stiff brush. Then rinse it well in clean water.

2bob worth from an amateur taxidermist.


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## guzzo (Feb 24, 2011)

Who is doing all the shooting Gordo?


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## moosenoose (Feb 24, 2011)

Interesting story and pics


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## Jen (Feb 24, 2011)

Dermestid beetles. Same as the museums use.


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## viridis (Feb 24, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> As someone who was a taxidermist for 30+ years, don't boil the skull - it can decalcify the bones and it will loosen the teeth and any ligamentary connections on the skull. The best thing to do is get a very sharp knife and remove as much meat and tissue as you can, then soak it in just cool water, changing it every 2-3 days until the tissue rots off. Very stinky until the process is almost finished, but should produce a good clean result. Crocs have all that tough connective tissue/skin on their heads and jaws, which you can only remove by rotting it off. Sometimes adding a bit of an enzyme-based washing powder can speed up the process - they begin the process of digesting the tissue fairly quickly (some of you will know how stinky clothes can be if you leave them in the machine and forget them... that's enzyme action and biodegradability!)
> 
> Be very careful as the process continues, that you don't lose teeth, or get them mixed up - croc teeth are designed to come out fairly easily, and once the connective tissue in the jaw begins to break down, they will loosen up and drop out.
> 
> ...


 
That is a helpful post Jamie, 

Will that method work for any animal skull?

Nick


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## Waterrat (Feb 24, 2011)

Nick, if you're thinking about snake skulls or any small reptilian skulls, I can email you a detailed recipe.


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## waruikazi (Feb 24, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Are you going to be the head pathologist Gordo? It's a wonderful job, especially if left for a day or two. It softens up the tissues, the organs get mushy but the best part is the stomach contents. Bits of old catfish fixed in the rotting sludge - the gastroliths are the more exciting part of the operation. Your students will love it! Don't eat breakfast on the day.


 
HA! If it's not a fresh croc i'm not going anywhere near it



Pythoninfinite said:


> As someone who was a taxidermist for 30+ years, don't boil the skull - it can decalcify the bones and it will loosen the teeth and any ligamentary connections on the skull. The best thing to do is get a very sharp knife and remove as much meat and tissue as you can, then soak it in just cool water, changing it every 2-3 days until the tissue rots off. Very stinky until the process is almost finished, but should produce a good clean result. Crocs have all that tough connective tissue/skin on their heads and jaws, which you can only remove by rotting it off. Sometimes adding a bit of an enzyme-based washing powder can speed up the process - they begin the process of digesting the tissue fairly quickly (some of you will know how stinky clothes can be if you leave them in the machine and forget them... that's enzyme action and biodegradability!)
> 
> Be very careful as the process continues, that you don't lose teeth, or get them mixed up - croc teeth are designed to come out fairly easily, and once the connective tissue in the jaw begins to break down, they will loosen up and drop out.
> 
> ...


 
Cheers Jamie, we've been in touch with the darwin museum and thety have given us a pretty good guide on how to do it. They said it was best to get straight in to boning out the connective tissue. I think i was a little too excited to wait a couple days but man was it a hard job, i wish i did wait! This took me three hours with good quality knives. The skull was still in pretty good shape dispite having two bullet holes in it. 







crappy pic, should get more up tomorrow if i'm lucky.



guzzo said:


> Who is doing all the shooting Gordo?


 
One of the T/O's did the majority but also some of the ringers from the station out here. Here's sopme pics of the locals cutting it up to be shared around.









































Enjoy! Now i'm going home for a nice cold glass of... water.


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## saximus (Feb 24, 2011)

Wow that's incredible!. Thanks for sharing the pics Gordo


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## whyme (Feb 24, 2011)

You'll find the bottom of the skull [jawbone, etc] will come in two halves. Glueing works, but a good drillbit and some dowell glued in works a thousand times better in the long run. Back of the skull is a bit harder, but some good fishing line will hold it together! Good luck. P.S. Must be good knives to carve a croc up like that!!!!


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## guzzo (Feb 24, 2011)

I know the rangers in Kakadu quite often shoot crocs with bird shot (not sure if lead or steel) in the tail if they are hanging around populated areas. In most cases it scares the heck out of em and they don't return....it is when they do they get shot for good. Good pics there.


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## chase77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks for the thread guys. Its been a great read and very informative.

Chase.


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## Braidotti (Feb 25, 2011)

Hey Waruikazi, I just seen on News.com that a 4m croc that was shot wasnt dead and was found again in the same billabong at Gunbalanya. Is this the same one that you said sunk to the bottom and hasnt been found. 

I think it was in your other thread.


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## waruikazi (Feb 25, 2011)

They are talking smack, that pilot wasn't even around when all the shooting took place. The whole school watched this one get shot, they fired three shots and i found two bullet holes in his head and recovered one slug. I know there have been atleast three large crocs shot since Tuesday, but the number is probably more like 5 (I saw one miss and Dion told me that he thinks the first shot he took missed but was a different animal to the second he shot and killed). The reason the other crocs haven't been recovered is because they were shot from the bank, not form a boat so they couldn't safely be pulled out before the current washed them out to god knows where. 



Braidotti said:


> Hey Waruikazi, I just seen on News.com that a 4m croc that was shot wasnt dead and was found again in the same billabong at Gunbalanya. Is this the same one that you said sunk to the bottom and hasnt been found.
> 
> I think it was in your other thread.





whyme said:


> You'll find the bottom of the skull [jawbone, etc] will come in two halves. Glueing works, but a good drillbit and some dowell glued in works a thousand times better in the long run. Back of the skull is a bit harder, but some good fishing line will hold it together! Good luck. P.S. Must be good knives to carve a croc up like that!!!!



Apparently this one should be large enough to hold together as long as we are gentle but we did get advice to that if it broke in two. Would love some tips on how to reattach the large chunk that got blown off from the bullet wound.

They used to be sharp knives lol. I spent an hour trying to sharpen them up again last night and i just can't get the same edge back on them.


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## Pythoninfinite (Feb 25, 2011)

Very interesting photos & story! Michael has a good point - the use of an alkali like KOH can speed things up, and make it a bit less stinky. KOH is used in solution to 'clear' tissue. and the skeleton, which is then stained with Alizarin Red, shows through in a transparent, but still intact body. It has the properties he suggests, sort of jellifies the muscle which can then be rinsed/washed away. Use a fairly weak solution, bit it is a strong alkali, so you need care when handling/mixing.

The last info I had on the NT Museum had Ian Archibald's son working there - still the case?

J


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## waruikazi (Feb 25, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Very interesting photos & story! Michael has a good point - the use of an alkali like KOH can speed things up, and make it a bit less stinky. KOH is used in solution to 'clear' tissue. and the skeleton, which is then stained with Alizarin Red, shows through in a transparent, but still intact body. It has the properties he suggests, sort of jellifies the muscle which can then be rinsed/washed away. Use a fairly weak solution, bit it is a strong alkali, so you need care when handling/mixing.
> 
> The last info I had on the NT Museum had Ian Archibald's son working there - still the case?
> 
> J



He sure is. I met him late last year (i think) when i got to go and look in the types cabinet and the rest of the preserved collection. He's also a friend of our science teacher out here, he had us on the phone for a good half hour telling us what to do. It's great having people so keen to help out!


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## Braidotti (Feb 25, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> They are talking smack, that pilot wasn't even around when all the shooting took place. The whole school watched this one get shot, they fired three shots and i found two bullet holes in his head and recovered one slug. I know there have been atleast three large crocs shot since Tuesday, but the number is probably more like 5 (I saw one miss and Dion told me that he thinks the first shot he took missed but was a different animal to the second he shot and killed). The reason the other crocs haven't been recovered is because they were shot from the bank, not form a boat so they couldn't safely be pulled out before the current washed them out to god knows where.



Thanks for that.


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## whyme (Feb 25, 2011)

Ha Ha. Throw out the knives and buy some new ones. Your pissin' in the wind tryin' to get another good edge!!! What was the large chunk that was blown off. Top or bottom, or near the jaw hinges. If its not going to be used as a demo, a good epoxy will work. If the kids are going to want to touch it, 3mm holes and skewers/dowells glued in for the tricky bits, or 6mm dowells for the heavier bits. Bit of fiddling around, but worth it in the end. Hope it helps!





Apparently this one should be large enough to hold together as long as we are gentle but we did get advice to that if it broke in two. Would love some tips on how to reattach the large chunk that got blown off from the bullet wound.

They used to be sharp knives lol. I spent an hour trying to sharpen them up again last night and i just can't get the same edge back on them.[/QUOTE]


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## pythonmum (Feb 26, 2011)

Have you ever seen 'Inside Nature's Giants' when they dissected a croc? It was fascinating. If you get a chance at a fresh one, have a go. I would steer clear if it is a couple days old. Few people have the stomach for that kind of work. BTW - did you eat any of that good jaw meat you got off the skull?


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

pythonmum said:


> Have you ever seen 'Inside Nature's Giants' when they dissected a croc? It was fascinating. If you get a chance at a fresh one, have a go. I would steer clear if it is a couple days old. Few people have the stomach for that kind of work. BTW - did you eat any of that good jaw meat you got off the skull?



I missed that episode, i saw the one with the whale, giraffe and everything else but i missed that croc one. I might see if i can download it. No i haven't eaten any of the meat, i kept a vertebrate for my dog but he wouldn't touch it... which made me think twice about eating it... but i still have a few kg in the fridge so it may happen yet. 

Whyme it's a large chunk from the upper jaw hinge, basically from the ear hole down. 

Got a few more pictures of when i was boning the head. They're a bit fuzzy because another teacher's 3 year old son was the photographer lol.





















I'm really suprised that there has been no flaming lol. Last time i posted up pics dead natives being used as a food source the haters went wild!


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## aussie-albino (Feb 26, 2011)

Great thread waruikazi, very interesting and good photo's. They sell farmed croc meat here I can't bring myself to eat it either.
cheers
Scott


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

aussie-albino said:


> Great thread waruikazi, very interesting and good photo's. They sell farmed croc meat here I can't bring myself to eat it either.
> cheers
> Scott



I've eaten farmed meat before, tastes just like chicken just a little tougher. Because these ones feed mainly on fish they would taste more like fish... or camp dogs lol. But my dog turning his nose up at it... really weirds me out. He even took the bone out of his bowl, put it outside and then went and finished the rest of his dinner. 

But i would definately encourage people to eat farmed meat, it helps prop up the industry and helps to fund research. Delicious and for a good cause!


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## saximus (Feb 26, 2011)

Yeah I reckon it tastes like fishy chicken. I didn't really like it. 
Scree the flamers. It was a safety issue and at least it's all being put to use in some form or another


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

saximus said:


> Yeah I reckon it tastes like fishy chicken. I didn't really like it.
> Scree the flamers. It was a safety issue and at least it's all being put to use in some form or another



Yeah but i got myself all ready and wound up to take them on! And no one has . Well i guess there is a first time for everything, even common sense amongst APS members lol.


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## -Katana- (Feb 26, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> I'm really suprised that there has been no flaming lol. Last time i posted up pics dead natives being used as a food source the haters went wild!



Shhhhh!
Let sleeping trolls .umm.....sleep.
It's kinda like saying Beetle Juice three times.
*ducks and runs for cover*


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## euphorion (Feb 26, 2011)

More pics Gordo!! That's awesome, will be a great specimen for the school  Can't wait to the see the end result.


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

I'll give an update on what we've done so far with the skull. I cut off as much meat and skin as i could, which was a much bigger jod than i thought it would be. The jaw muscles actually continue right down inside the snout of the top jaw, right under the eyes and, i assume, all the way upto the nose. It wasn't easy to get all of the meat and cartlidge out of these places. The skin is fixed right onto the bone in most places and was far too difficult to get off in the time we had available. Inplace of cutting it off i scored it length wise several times along the snouth.

We've placed the jaw and skull tooth-side-up in a tub of water with cable ties around the snout and bottom jaw to help stop them separating (although it should be a big enough animal that they don't split) to soak for about a month. Unfortunatley to stop the kids from stealing teeth and other things out of it we have put it in my shed... it should start smelling nice and ripe very soon!



Akwendi said:


> Shhhhh!
> Let sleeping trolls .umm.....sleep.
> It's kinda like saying Beetle Juice three times.
> *ducks and runs for cover*


 
Stop, drop and roll works better for flamers!


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## euphorion (Feb 26, 2011)

A croc skull would be an awesome room ornament. *thread hijack* what are the legalities involved in acquiring such a thing and does anyone ever see such things for sale?


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

shooshoo said:


> A croc skull would be an awesome room ornament. *thread hijack* what are the legalities involved in acquiring such a thing and does anyone ever see such things for sale?



Very easy and completely legal if you go through the right sources. Most croc farms sell them, i think crocodylus sells them Crocodylus Park, Darwin, Australia i'm sure if you shoot them an email they could help you out. They even sell hatchlings! Most tourist shops in Darwin sell them too. Make sure you get a certificate with any croc product you purchase.


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## Waterrat (Feb 26, 2011)

Gordo, if you haven't got KOH, you can use ordinary caustic-soda. It will speed up the process and cut down of the bad smell.


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Gordo, if you haven't got KOH, you can use ordinary caustic-soda. It will speed up the process and cut down of the bad smell.



We can't get any chemicals in while the river is up because the planes wont fly with it. Funnily enough for completely differnt reasons the school has an order of KOH sitting in storage at Jabiru School because the pilots refused to take it on the 12 1/2 minute flight across the river.


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## Waterrat (Feb 26, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Funnily enough for completely differnt reasons the school has an order of KOH sitting in storage at Jabiru School because the pilots refused to take it on the 12 1/2 minute flight across the river.



What's weird. KOH is a strong alkali in a crystal (flaky) form, it's not corrosive, inflammable or explosive, what can go wrong on the plane?


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> What's weird. KOH is a strong alkali in a crystal (flaky) form, it's not corrosive, inflammable or explosive, what can go wrong on the plane?


 
I'm quite happy for the pilots to devote the small ammount of common sense they have to keeping the planes in the air than have to think about chemicals lol.

What can i find caustic soda in?


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## saximus (Feb 26, 2011)

It's used as an industrial cleaner if that's any help


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## aussie-albino (Feb 26, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> I've eaten farmed meat before, tastes just like chicken just a little tougher. Because these ones feed mainly on fish they would taste more like fish... or camp dogs lol. But my dog turning his nose up at it... really weirds me out. He even took the bone out of his bowl, put it outside and then went and finished the rest of his dinner.
> 
> But i would definately encourage people to eat farmed meat, it helps prop up the industry and helps to fund research. Delicious and for a good cause!


 
LOL yea your dogs reaction has me thinking I'll stay away from it still, but plenty of people eat it,I think it's a favourite with the tourists here.

cheers
Scott


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## waruikazi (Feb 26, 2011)

aussie-albino said:


> LOL yea your dogs reaction has me thinking I'll stay away from it still, but plenty of people eat it,I think it's a favourite with the tourists here.
> 
> cheers
> Scott



Just went to our community store and they have run out of meat for the next two days... so it's either vego for the next two days or have a go at the croc... Not sure which is worse lol.


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## Elapidae1 (Feb 26, 2011)

Are those Knives Victorinox fibrox with microban? If so they shouldn't be to hard to get an edge on. What are you sharpening them with? 

Great post by the way


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## nagini-baby (Feb 26, 2011)

when i was a little kid the neighbours had a croc head.. skin teeth.. eyes.. ect on their coffee table.. we used to dare each other to touch the inside of the mouth but none of us would cause ya no those things can bite haha


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## pythonmum (Feb 26, 2011)

Got a nice strong seasoning to make croc curry? I'm thinking green Thai style might be reasonable. Funny about the dog. At would really make you think twice!


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## whyme (Feb 26, 2011)

Hey Gordo, if its blown the jaw and ear piece away you've got no hope glueing it back together. Shattered fragments etc, etc. The cheapest and easiest way to fix it is to use car bodyfiller and mould a piece in your hand. Not to much hardener, so you've got a chance to mould it, and then file it into shape. Sounds like some stuffin' around, but easier than making a glass mould, then a negative mould, then a positive mould, then filing that, and then painting it, and then trying to fit it! Looking good so far though! And it's the old story, you eat what you kill!


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## waruikazi (Feb 27, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Are those Knives Victorinox fibrox with microban? If so they shouldn't be to hard to get an edge on. What are you sharpening them with?
> 
> Great post by the way


 
No they're f-dick knives. I can't afford a good 2nd hand oil stone so i'm just using a peice of 800grit wet and dry on a piece of slate. I'll get a good edge back... just may take a while.



whyme said:


> Hey Gordo, if its blown the jaw and ear piece away you've got no hope glueing it back together. Shattered fragments etc, etc. The cheapest and easiest way to fix it is to use car bodyfiller and mould a piece in your hand. Not to much hardener, so you've got a chance to mould it, and then file it into shape. Sounds like some stuffin' around, but easier than making a glass mould, then a negative mould, then a positive mould, then filing that, and then painting it, and then trying to fit it! Looking good so far though! And it's the old story, you eat what you kill!



It's a large chunk, the part where the lower jaw attaches to it is all intact. You can see the bullet hole in the pic below and i've highlighted the area that has been blown out in another pic below (except on the other side). 












I've got alot of time to think about it but i'm thinking that if i can align the bottom jaw back to the skull, then i will be able to realign the chunk back to the jaw bone and then i should be able to fill any areas that have fragments missing with some kind of filler. Or does it not work like that?


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## gillsy (Feb 27, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Yeah but i got myself all ready and wound up to take them on! And no one has . Well i guess there is a first time for everything, even common sense amongst APS members lol.


 
Why the hell would you shoot a native animal, it has every right to be there. People should have fences up to stop the crocs getting in, not recless shooting of them


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## waruikazi (Feb 27, 2011)

gillsy said:


> Why the hell would you shoot a native animal, it has every right to be there. People should have fences up to stop the crocs getting in, not recless shooting of them



Lol Gillsy, there is one bloke who i was really anticipating some abuse from. This bloke is genuine eco terroris, every time i post a picture of anything dead (outside the ordinary rats and mice) I cop some 'serious' threats of violence from him lol. Usually he even takes the time to face book abuse me too haha. Wayne... where are you?


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## gillsy (Feb 27, 2011)

LOL Yeah I think I know who you are talking about, I still like the road kill thread and the people on that.


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## longqi (Feb 27, 2011)

Its always interesting that the so called 'they have a right to be there crew" all live very far away from the crocs??????
Good to see the community is being kept safe
..
.


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## whyme (Feb 27, 2011)

Easy enough to fix Gordo, if it's only taken the top hinge out. Glue what you can and then use filler to patch the rest. Use a blunt pencil[or stick] to recreate the dents in the bone. Just a hint, go for cream filler, not pink, for obvious reasons.


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

Here's another one that was shot on Thursday night. I am tanning the hyde on this one and also cleaning up the skull.

























































And the (half way) end result.


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## Waterrat (Mar 5, 2011)

I can see a new career developing for you Gordo. Sick of teaching?
Would I be far off to say that those cops are there are bloody trigger-happy rednecks?


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## Jungle_Freak (Mar 5, 2011)

One hell of a interesting place to be working and living Gordon .
Just not the best place to go swiming ??? 
Post pics when you have finished the skull and tanned the hide .
Roger


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> I can see a new career developing for you Gordo. Sick of teaching?
> Would I be far off to say that those cops are there are bloody trigger-happy rednecks?



Nah this one was shot by some locals. Apparently the T/O of our area has declared that there are too many in the wrong places and if they are spotted in places where people go fishing the larger ones need to be shot.



Jungle_Freak said:


> One hell of a interesting place to be working and living Gordon .
> Just not the best place to go swiming ???
> Post pics when you have finished the skull and tanned the hide
> Roger



Sorry, should have said, i'm only doing the hyde and another teacher is doing the skull of this one (it's in much poorer condition than the one i did last week) and it's a pretty big job to do properly. 

I'll post up some updated pics of the one i'm doing in the next day or so... you're all lucky that smellovision hasn't been invented yet lol.


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## -Katana- (Mar 5, 2011)

One set of nice boots for you, War! (and a handbag if you so inclined..lol)


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> One set of nice boots for you, War! (and a handbag if you so inclined..lol)



I promised the handbag to Jay lol!


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## -Katana- (Mar 5, 2011)

Bugger! Missed out again!


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## snakelover33 (Mar 5, 2011)

Y not just let it go????????
Cuae it aint gonna shoot you when you go to it's territory plus it's his territory.. y bulid a school next to a swamp or what ever you guys should know better... but heey life is l.ife aint it gotta learn to suck it up and go.


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

snakelover33 said:


> Y not just let it go????????
> Cuae it aint gonna shoot you when you go to it's territory plus it's his territory.. y bulid a school next to a swamp or what ever you guys should know better... but heey life is l.ife aint it gotta learn to suck it up and go.


 
I know that alot of people will find this thread offensive, especially people who have a love for Aussie native wildlife but i think that the offense will be ballanced by the people who are interested in it. If crocs were a good candidate for relocating then i would be pushing for this to take place. Unfortunately, for the croc, they do not relocate well and usually end up back where they started. 

I've often wondered why this school, and whole community, was built on a floodplain. It really wasn't the most intelligent thing for the missionaries to do back in the early 1900's but it was done. 

The thing you also need to remember snakelover is that, even though crocs aren't normally used as a food source, both of these animals were eaten. They were also being a danger to people, there is no doubt in my mind that a human life is far far more important than any crocodile's.


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 5, 2011)

And there is way to many of the suckers up there anyway. Maybe they should set a quota each year and hand out permits so people can legally hunt them. Could be a good money spinner for the communitys


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

steve1 said:


> And there is way to many of the suckers up there anyway. Maybe they should set a quota each year and hand out permits so people can legally hunt them. Could be a good money spinner for the communitys



I wouldn't say too many but there is alot lol. The problem i can see with trophy hunting is that the hunters will want to shoot the biggets of the big bucks. Which is bad because they keep the numbers of smaller bucks down in any given area. If you visit a billabong or a stretch of river where a big black buck is living you'll be lucky to spot another male.


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 5, 2011)

Is this a problem for the crocs themselves or will it increase danger to humans.


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

steve1 said:


> Is this a problem for the crocs themselves or will it increase danger to humans.



I see it as a problem for people. 

Do you remember Eric the Croc from ARP? Well he was caught in the 80's at Cahills Crossing, which is about 10 minutes from our community, he was a massive buck at well over 5m. While he was around there were no other crocs at the crossing, now with him gone it's not unusual to see more than 10 crocs in the high 3m range fishing down there. And if memory serves me right two people have been eaten at Cahills since his removal.


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## imported_Varanus (Mar 5, 2011)

Is relocation to one of Darwin's croc farms or attractions not an option Gordo? I used to work for Malcolm Douglas at his Broome farm (and later zoo) and most reported "problem" crocs ended up at one of his places, as breeders, or the croc farm in Wyndham. Mind you, he had a good set up and we were often able to travel as far as Kalumburu Community by road (or boat) depending on the time of year. On one occasion, we camped at a local Derby community to trap a large, problem croc ("Santa", if you've ever been to Broome croc park), set and baited the trap that afternoon and got up next morning to check the trap and some of the community kids were using it as a springboard!! Malcolm reckons all the noise and splashing most likely kept "Santa" at bay.


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## pythonmum (Mar 5, 2011)

Great pics. Could make an interesting floor covering and even have enough for clutch bags for both you and Jay! Can you save me one of the bones from the hide on the back?!  
Did you try eating any of that meat yet? I reckon you must have been pretty exhausted after that job. Good thing you are young and still have a good back. Bending and sawing away with rapidly dulling knives would be the pits. In my younger years I tried to butcher a feral pig with a pocket knife, but gave up. Guess I wasn't hungry or stubborn enough. (neither was the friend who shot it) 

And yes, I am very glad that smellovision has not been invented...


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## Elapidae1 (Mar 5, 2011)

Ok. I have been to Oenpelli in the dry season didn't see any crocs, but I was only there for a day. I did a spot of fishing I think the place was called Red Lilly or a water course next to Red lilly, I was nervous the whole time. a lot of the other places we went, there were crocs everywhere, the general line of thought from the people I was with was that some form of hunting system or culling was needed to mreduce numbers, i can't say I know enough about there habits ETC, other than that there is plenty of them. I can see how getting rid of the big males could be problematic for people though. I would personally love the opportunity to butcher one.


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> Is relocation to one of Darwin's croc farms or attractions not an option Gordo? I used to work for Malcolm Douglas at his Broome farm (and later zoo) and most reported "problem" crocs ended up at one of his places, as breeders, or the croc farm in Wyndham. Mind you, he had a good set up and we were often able to travel as far as Kalumburu Community by road (or boat) depending on the time of year. On one occasion, we camped at a local Derby community to trap a large, problem croc ("Santa", if you've ever been to Broome croc park), set and baited the trap that afternoon and got up next morning to check the trap and some of the community kids were using it as a springboard!! Malcolm reckons all the noise and splashing most likely kept "Santa" at bay.



Some are relocated to parks etc but i would think the costs involved, especially dring the wet, would make it a bit impractical. Even if they are taken to a park, that animal might as well be dead. It is no longer contributing to the ecosystem and at best it will be used to make babies that will be made into handbags. There are also hundreds of crocs removed from Darwin harbour every year that go to the farms, i would assume with that many animals going in every year they really wouldn't need any more from this far abroad. I would even wager that a great many of them would be killed when they do get to the farms. There's only so many crocs needed.



pythonmum said:


> Great pics. Could make an interesting floor covering and even have enough for clutch bags for both you and Jay! Can you save me one of the bones from the hide on the back?!
> Did you try eating any of that meat yet? I reckon you must have been pretty exhausted after that job. Good thing you are young and still have a good back. Bending and sawing away with rapidly dulling knives would be the pits. In my younger years I tried to butcher a feral pig with a pocket knife, but gave up. Guess I wasn't hungry or stubborn enough. (neither was the friend who shot it)
> 
> And yes, I am very glad that smellovision has not been invented...



I plan on framing it and putting up in the science lab with the skull from the first croc. I would love to send you a whole skull if i could but unfortunately it is illegal for me to do so. Communities are a bit like the matrix. Rules can be bent and in some cases broken all together but as soon as you enter the real world... no more lol.



steve1 said:


> Ok. I have been to Oenpelli in the dry season didn't see any crocs, but I was only there for a day. I did a spot of fishing I think the place was called Red Lilly or a water course next to Red lilly, I was nervous the whole time. a lot of the other places we went, there were crocs everywhere, the general line of thought from the people I was with was that some form of hunting system or culling was needed to mreduce numbers, i can't say I know enough about there habits ETC, other than that there is plenty of them. I can see how getting rid of the big males could be problematic for people though. I would personally love the opportunity to butcher one.



Red lily has an absolute thumper living in it, i think i have a photo of him somewhere to, i've never seen any croc except for him in it. I've seen some smaller ones in a billabong nearby but not in huge numbers.

Butchering a croc gets old really really quickly lol.

Here he is, i think this one is named 'Max'


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## Sock Puppet (Mar 5, 2011)

Nice crocs Gordo, they are such an impressive predator. And the meat is actually alright too (I assume that's where the tail went, the best bit)
Just to play Devil's Advocate, are there laws or regulations involved with the keeping of croc parts like skins & skulls? I was under the impression that one had to be licenced to do this (eg croc farms etc)? Do you have exemptions being part of a local community? Or are legally shot crocs exempt from the skin etc laws? 
Love em or hate em, a big croc is an awesome, impressive, & exceptional beast. Great pics, keep em coming.


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

Sock Puppet said:


> Nice crocs Gordo, they are such an impressive predator. And the meat is actually alright too (I assume that's where the tail went, the best bit)
> Just to play Devil's Advocate, are there laws or regulations involved with the keeping of croc parts like skins & skulls? I was under the impression that one had to be licenced to do this (eg croc farms etc)? Do you have exemptions being part of a local community? Or are legally shot crocs exempt from the skin etc laws?
> Love em or hate em, a big croc is an awesome, impressive, & exceptional beast. Great pics, keep em coming.



There definatley are laws, you need a permit with any product of a protected species. The parts of the crocodiles that we are preserving do not actually belong to me, they belong to the school and technically that may still be illegal. But like i said, when you're on indigenous land the rules can be bent and in some cases broken all together.


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## LatinaCarrino6 (Mar 5, 2011)

Good Pics, But howcome all these crocs had to be shot, I understand they were near residential areas and a school, but why cant someone come in and tranq them and take em to a wildlife sanctuary or something ? And where in australia is this? I Cant figure it out lols


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## waruikazi (Mar 5, 2011)

LatinaCarrino6 said:


> Good Pics, But howcome all these crocs had to be shot, I understand they were near residential areas and a school, but why cant someone come in and tranq them and take em to a wildlife sanctuary or something ? And where in australia is this? I Cant figure it out lols



1. It would be very very very expensive to take them out of the community. We're flooded in and they would either need to be stored for another 3 months or flown out.
2. If they were all sent to a wildlife sanctuary they would be over flowing with crocodiles. There would have to be hundreds shot like these every year, let alone those trapped in Darwin Harbour and the Darwin suburbs which are sent to croc farms.
3. Gunbalanya is the Indigenous name for Oenpelli, we are in Arnhem Land.


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## whyme (Mar 5, 2011)

As bad as it may seem, crocs need to.................Nup, i think I'll keep this one to myself. Good work though Gordo. Did you keep your stomach down!


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## krusty (Mar 5, 2011)

throw another croc chop on the bbq....yum yum....lol


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## aussie-albino (Mar 5, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> Just went to our community store and they have run out of meat for the next two days... so it's either vego for the next two days or have a go at the croc... Not sure which is worse lol.


 
LOL in that case waruikazi I think I might be tempted to finally try it LOL.


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## waruikazi (Mar 6, 2011)

whyme said:


> As bad as it may seem, crocs need to.................Nup, i think I'll keep this one to myself. Good work though Gordo. Did you keep your stomach down!


 
I have the strongest guts around, unless somethign squishy gets between my toes i'm all good!



aussie-albino said:


> LOL in that case waruikazi I think I might be tempted to finally try it LOL.



I did try it, they are big water bags hey. I cooked it up in a curry, tried a little and then gave it to the dog lol. I just couldn't handle the smell.


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## aussie-albino (Mar 6, 2011)

LOL how did the dog go with it curried did he eat it this time. One of the cafes here tried croc steaks one day I watched a bloke trying to eat one it looked like he was chewing a boot. I think they put it in the mincer after that for burgers lol.
cheers
Scott


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## waruikazi (Mar 6, 2011)

He did eat it when it was cooked in the curry. The meat had so much water in it that after i fried the meat (like you do before you stick it in your curries) i had to go outside and tip the fluid out into the garden. By volume i recon it would have reduced by about half. 

I think it was just that it was a big beast. I recon a smaller one would go alright. I even took a photo of how much fluid came out of the stuff, it was ridiculous and smelly :lol:. 







That wasn't even properly cooked yet either, even more came out.


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## aussie-albino (Mar 6, 2011)

That is a heap of water. Size and age could be where the strong smell came from older beef is smelly particularly bull.


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## pythonmum (Mar 6, 2011)

Well, at least the dog ate the curry... Had some fish like that the other night - so much water came out that there wasn't much left and it was way too chewy. Perhaps your croc had been eating its cousins. I'm having a nice beef provencal casserole tonight - just to make you jealous! I would send some up, but it would not survive the flight  Fresh baked bread,too . It is cool enough in Sydney to cook like that tonight.


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## waruikazi (Apr 24, 2011)

Righto!

I soaked the skull in water for 7 weeks. When i emptied the water a week ago i was left with an earthy green coloured skull. After sitting in the air for a while it quickly turned to a normal bone colour. But it still stank like dead stuff.






Then i soaked it for a couple hours in a 10% bleach solution, it still stinks but not so bad anymore. This is pic of gently filling the tub with water and bleach so the teeth wouldn't get washed out.






I forgot to get pics of the missing chunks and damage the bullet caused to the skull (which was significant). I spent a few h ours last night gluing it all back together. From soaking in the water the parts had warped a bit and didn't fit together quite right, you can kind of see it in this pic. I used a flexible glue, it seems to be working.






The croc must have been relatively young because all of the bones hadn't fused in the lower jaw, that was a bit of a headache fitting back together. I haven't glued them together, just left the top jaw and the teeth to hold it all tight. But this is the end product. I think it looks quite nice!


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## pythonmum (Apr 24, 2011)

Well done! I know who to call next time I shoot a croc (like that's going to happen...) Did you use potassium hydroxide in the water you used for the 7-week soak? The bleach certainly made it look prettier. Maybe a good airing will help with the residual smell.


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## waruikazi (Apr 24, 2011)

No just water. We bout some KH but weren't allowed to fly it in.


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## pythonmum (Apr 24, 2011)

Next time try "caustic soda" cleaner (sodium hydroxide). They can't refuse a cleaning product, can they? Ammonia or a base like NaOH in the soaking water will help remove some of the fats in the marrow cavities which are giving that residual smell.


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## waruikazi (Apr 24, 2011)

pythonmum said:


> Next time try "caustic soda" cleaner (sodium hydroxide). They can't refuse a cleaning product, can they? Ammonia or a base like NaOH in the soaking water will help remove some of the fats in the marrow cavities which are giving that residual smell.



Well it was cleaning stuff... so maybe they can???


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## -Katana- (Apr 24, 2011)

I've been thinking about the problems you are having with eating their flesh re: water content and smell.

Cube it into 2cm dice and coat with salt and place in a sieve/rice strainer and place on a plate in the fridge over night.

The salt will help draw the moisture out of the flesh, rinse flesh and pat dry with clean paper towels.
Know will know it's worked because the cubes will shrink in size and you'll have liquid on the plate under the sieve.


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## waruikazi (Apr 24, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> I've been thinking about the problems you are having with eating their flesh re: water content and smell.
> 
> Cube it into 2cm dice and coat with salt and place in a sieve/rice strainer and place on a plate in the fridge over night.
> 
> ...



But in half that time i could go and buy some chicken and make an even more delicious curry!


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## -Katana- (Apr 24, 2011)

Yep.....aren't I just a helpful soul!


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## pythonmum (Apr 24, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> But in half that time i could go and buy some chicken and make an even more delicious curry!


 Forget the chicken - eat more of spotty pig!


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