# Pig tail blueys!!!



## Scleropages (Dec 2, 2012)

OMG I just got two pig tail blueys.. they are really cool...

I hope to breed them with albinos and black ones and create super black albino pig tails!
can't wait... how long until they can breed? a few months or longer?

I have named them "Jonno" and "Lucas" after a really awesome dude 

Party on!
Stay true to the morff!


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## cheekabee (Dec 2, 2012)

They look really uncomfortable and constipated, whats the point breeding deformed lizards, in the wild they would never survive, the whole evolution process is getting disturbed the fittest should survive and pass on their genes not the other way around. I feel the same way towards albinos and other morfs.


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## cadwallader (Dec 2, 2012)

hahaha thats so funny  
its made blue tongues cool again!

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cheekabee said:


> They look really uncomfortable, whats the point breeding deformed lizards, in the wild they would never survive, the whole evolution process is getting disturbed the fittest should survive and pass on their genes not the other way around. I feel the same way towards albinos and other morfs.



do you think a sausage dog would survive in the wild... the reptile trade is following the dog breeding history, its kinda sad but cool I'm a fence sitter on being a naturalist or one to love non natural variations, but i also am not a fan of albinos etc but these guys are kinda too cool IMO


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## sharky (Dec 2, 2012)

cadwallader said:


> hahaha thats so funny
> its made blue tongues cool again!



Blue tongues always have and always will be cool


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> They look really uncomfortable, whats the point breeding deformed lizards, in the wild they would never survive, the whole evolution process is getting disturbed the fittest should survive and pass on their genes not the other way around. I feel the same way towards albinos and other morfs.



um, whaT would you prefer? i suppose you'd "brick" them.... i also wouldnt consider a genetic trait like albinism a deformity.

you alwats end up with interesting animals Paul!


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## andyh (Dec 2, 2012)

Awesome work mate, put me down for a pair!


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## Shotta (Dec 2, 2012)

thats cool and all but when it gets bigger wont its tail being that way be a bit cumbersome for him? lol funny lookin legs too
or are their tails like that cuz they are newly grown ones?


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## Stevo2 (Dec 2, 2012)

Sezzzzzzzzz said:


> um, whaT would you prefer? i suppose you'd "brick" them.... i also wouldnt consider a genetic trait like albinism a deformity.
> 
> you alwats end up with interesting animals Paul!



Yup, I'd cull them.


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## cheekabee (Dec 2, 2012)

Albinism is definatley a deformity, its an absence of pigment in the skin, it affects sight, and limits exposure to the sun. Why do you think albino specimens are so rare in the wild, If it wasn't a deformity albino animals would be thriving in the wild


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## andyh (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Albinism is definatley a deformity, its an absence of pigment in the skin, it affects sight, and limits exposure to the sun. Why do you think albino specimens are so rare in the wild, If it wasn't a deformity albino animals would be thriving in the wild



Own a dog, cat, bird or fish do you?


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## jinjajoe (Dec 2, 2012)

The top one looks awesome !! You get anymore in the litter that have that reduced patterning ?? 

The tails may well straighten over the next couple of months so your project may well falter  ha ha


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## cheekabee (Dec 2, 2012)

andyh said:


> Own a dog, cat, bird or fish do you?


What are you talking about man? I own a dog.


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## Scleropages (Dec 2, 2012)

jinjajoe said:


> The top one looks awesome !! You get anymore in the litter that have that reduced patterning ??
> 
> The tails may well straighten over the next couple of months so your project may well falter  ha ha




Only one in 15 like that, even if it diden't have the dodgy tail I would of got it. - I diden't breed these
I'll have to get some Neon orange Het for awesome ones off you so i can get pink pig tails in a few years


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## thals (Dec 2, 2012)

Breed me a black pig tail chop chop! *sounds a bit wrong hey :lol:*


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> What are you talking about man? I own a dog.



All dogs except wild ones are morphs, ie: line bred, crossbred to produce a type. Many breeds of pure bred dogs have genetic defects and inherited problems.


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## jinjajoe (Dec 2, 2012)

You would really bring home the bacon if you did that !!!


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## Specks (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee
learn where you arent wanted or where your unsupported opinion is not warranted
Your in contradiction of yourself

wicked blueys paul
keep on keeping those deformed animals of yours


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## richoman_3 (Dec 2, 2012)

sharkyy1o5 said:


> Blue tongues always have and always will be cool



exactly!
nothing better than 4 years of raising a blue tongue and coming to roasting it!


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## Scleropages (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> They look really uncomfortable and constipated, whats the point breeding deformed lizards, in the wild they would never survive, the whole evolution process is getting disturbed the fittest should survive and pass on their genes not the other way around. I feel the same way towards albinos and other morfs.



They look uncomfortable?
They have just been running around like mad chasing their crickets. How do they look constipated are you just trying to pick with comments like that?
These are not a morth ( yet), they where saved from some one who didn't want them or could sell them.
As for them or albinos not surviving in the wild.. that's the point.. They.don't .have.too as they are in captivity... next people like you will be culling off deformed people.
And I highly doubt you would survive in the "wild" with that attitude you have.
What is it with people being so negative about things like this. you are a very negative Lady Cheekabee.


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## cools2036 (Dec 2, 2012)

Deformities is a harsh word... It's abnormalities such as these pigtails which give us an extremely valuable phenomena....like two headed pythons etc etc.
All things may seem odd or discouraged when we've never seen it before but in time ppl will want it and pay big $$ to get it. 
Any unique characteristics are worth perusing


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## Xeaal (Dec 2, 2012)

I hope this doesn't cause spinal issues in the lizards, as specific breeding for this trait has in certain dog breeds :|. The colours are lovely.


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## rosequoll (Dec 2, 2012)

I figure, as long as they walk, eat, poo and grow well then who cares! They're adorable. =)


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## Jeffa (Dec 2, 2012)

Breed Jag with it and you will be in the money! Spastic tail and Neuro, but patterns are awesome!


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## Justdragons (Dec 2, 2012)

i like the colours, oink oink


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## spotlight (Dec 2, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Albinism is definatley a deformity, its an absence of pigment in the skin, it affects sight, and limits exposure to the sun. Why do you think albino specimens are so rare in the wild, If it wasn't a deformity albino animals would be thriving in the wild



Albinos do thrive in the wild , don't forget almost all albinos on the market were from wild caught animals , the one I originally found was at least a year old


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## sd1981 (Dec 2, 2012)

Not my thing but I'd like to see how they come along.... Keep us updated...


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## Chanzey (Dec 2, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> you are a very negative Lady Cheekabee.



:lol:


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## Jeffa (Dec 2, 2012)

Sclero stick with the blue grey jungle you have. That is a winner! This obvious deformity you have in blue tongues at the moment you want to breed for difference? Not cool. You are better than this! Do the herp society proud and stick with the awesome jungle! By the way, I am a big fan of the jungle!


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## =bECS= (Dec 2, 2012)

Jeffa said:


> Sclero stick with the blue grey jungle you have. That is a winner! This obvious deformity you have in blue tongues at the moment you want to breed for difference? Not cool. You are better than this! Do the herp society proud and stick with the awesome jungle! By the way, I am a big fan of the jungle!




What about his twitchy pythons? The jungle is awesome though!
The blueys have nice markings and small curled tails..... so what, its not like they have twisted heads, speed bumps down their backs or shoot sparks out their rear ends (that we know of anyway)..... you aps folk are funny, not alot has changed around here!


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## Jeffa (Dec 2, 2012)

True Becs, I just saw these as a typical "morph"in which the genetics dont do the animal any benefit, and may cause spinal issues and problems down the track. But because the animals cannot talk and might say my back is killing me and I am in immense pain but I look okay and unique I am potentially worth more than the perfect looking Bluies out there. Pig tails is a good marketing ploy! Is it not?


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## =bECS= (Dec 2, 2012)

Pig Tails is a great name, as is the names of his twitchys and the fact he is a staunch supporter for ringworm rights..... Why is everybody so serious? At least its entertaining and again, nice blueys.... (on topic  )


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## Jeffa (Dec 2, 2012)

Yeah Becs, At least it is entertaining! Enjoy the show!


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## Scleropages (Dec 2, 2012)

Lowest form of humor. 
heh.


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## =bECS= (Dec 2, 2012)

Indeed


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## saintanger (Dec 2, 2012)

nice blueys, the top one has a really nice patern. the tails are cute, i'd like to see them as adults.


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## =bECS= (Dec 2, 2012)

Blueman! I'm still waiting for the answer to my question..... are they sparkle bums? It would add to the asking price of their babies if it's genetic  
What would you call them then? 
You can teach them tricks.... maybe they can herd sheep  ''That will do lizzy, that will do!''


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 3, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> ... next people like you will be culling off deformed people.
> And I highly doubt you would survive in the "wild" with that attitude you have.
> What is it with people being so negative about things like this. you are a very negative Lady Cheekabee.



There is absolutely no justification for what you have said here. If you are in the right then you should never need to resort to derogatory personal comments. In fact, you never need to resort to derogatory personal comments full stop. Address the criticism if you must, but without resorting to personally degrading the author thereof to strengthen your argument. And the same applies to those who support such comment. Popularity is no a blank cheque to belittle others. 

Read *spotlight’s* comment. He clearly showed a statement made to be in error by providing the required evidence and he did without any reference to personality. Why can’t you do that?

Blue


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## caliherp (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> They look really uncomfortable and constipated, whats the point breeding deformed lizards, in the wild they would never survive, the whole evolution process is getting disturbed the fittest should survive and pass on their genes not the other way around. I feel the same way towards albinos and other morfs.


Im a little late and i got as far as this comment before i felt the need to post. You could say the same about us piping eggs. You could also say the same thing about us getting problem feeders eating. They would never survive in the wild, yet not only do we do everything in our power to give them a fighting chance we also breed them. Which again would never happen in the wild.


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 3, 2012)

*Caliherp*, I agree. Those arguments given were demonstrated to be invalid. For example, a deformity is something misshapen or malformed. Albinism is a deficiency condition, which in many snakes has been demonstrated to not significantly reduce their survival in nature. And not matter what something looks like, if the OP says it is otherwise then you have to accept that.

I found the only really compelling argument to be a question for the future. Would the current tail shape remain and if so, would it have a detrimental effect on the spine, resulting in a significant level of pain to the animal? At this stage we don’t even know if it is an ontogenetic abnormality that will right itself in time or whether it is a permanent feature and likely genetically produced.

Blue

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I should have added I think “deformity” was used to convey a significant departure from the normal form (and to connote a negative effect). Unfortunately for the user, it has a much more restricted meaning.


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> They look uncomfortable?
> They have just been running around like mad chasing their crickets. How do they look constipated are you just trying to pick with comments like that?
> These are not a morth ( yet), they where saved from some one who didn't want them or could sell them.
> As for them or albinos not surviving in the wild.. that's the point.. They.don't .have.too as they are in captivity... next people like you will be culling off deformed people.
> ...


First off mate im a male, secondly people cant be compared to wild animals which you are doing ,some of my close friends have disabilities and deformities and they are smart, loving people. Again Reptiles are wild animals and cant be compared to domesticated animals such as dogs and therefore reptiles cant be cross-bred ect. And they shouldn't be selectively bred with *the purpose* to create deformed animals through genetics, if the animals are born with deformities *by chance* in captivity fair enough, i dont support culling them, but they definately should not be bred with the intention of them inheriting features that limit them.


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 3, 2012)

Dogs were wild once


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## Umbral (Dec 3, 2012)

You lie!


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

KaotikJezta said:


> Dogs were wild once


 So do you think we can domesticate reptiles? now way, they will always be wild animals and owning a reptile is a privilege and owners must have respect for wild animals and that includes not breeding them with the purpose of creating animals with features that limit them.


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## Scleropages (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> First off mate im a male, secondly people cant be compared to wild animals which you are doing ,some of my close friends have disabilities and deformities and they are smart, loving people. Again Reptiles are wild animals and cant be compared to domesticated animals such as dogs and therefore reptiles cant be cross-bred ect. And they shouldn't be selectively bred with *the purpose* to create deformed animals through genetics, if the animals are born with deformities *by chance* in captivity fair enough, i dont support culling them, but they definately should not be bred with the intention of them inheriting features that limit them.



Sorry Lady,Was just going by your username.

What type of dog do you have?


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## Pseudo (Dec 3, 2012)

And in come the humourless to ruin the day!


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## richoman_3 (Dec 3, 2012)

im still waiting for you to breed those 3 legged neon green blueys!


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Scleropages said:


> Sorry Lady,Was just going by your username.
> 
> What type of dog do you have?


I'm obviously the bigger *man *here because im not using personal degrading comments. BTW way I have a pure bred native Australian dingo


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 3, 2012)

pics?


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)




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## notechistiger (Dec 3, 2012)

Please don't claim other peoples' photos as your own. It's illegal and silly.

The dingo came to Australia from southern China - Australian Geographic



cheekabee said:


> View attachment 272646


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Yeah 4,600 to 18,300 years ago mate and they are considered native to Australia not China


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## cools2036 (Dec 3, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> Please don't claim other peoples' photos as your own. It's illegal and silly.
> 
> The dingo came to Australia from southern China - Australian Geographic



Haha awkward...


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## notechistiger (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Yeah 4,600 to 18,300 years ago mate and they are considered native to Australia not China



I think... you missed the point of the link.

Hint: scroll down and look at the second picture.


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh lol.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> View attachment 272646



oh dear, you must feel a bit silly now...


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Back to the piont guys


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## Red-Ink (Dec 3, 2012)

notechistiger said:


> Please don't claim other peoples' photos as your own. It's illegal and silly.
> 
> The dingo came to Australia from southern China - Australian Geographic




LOL... oh what do we do now?


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Back to the piont guys



not even an apology for lying to everyone?


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## Red-Ink (Dec 3, 2012)

Sezzzzzzzzz said:


> not even an apology for lying to everyone?



Put the pigtail between the legs and run?


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## hnn17 (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee you missed the point, saying you have a dingo as a pet but when asked for a pic, stole a random pic off the net as if it's yours. pictures belong to the photographer the moment they press the shutter, using without permission is stealing. if you have a dingo then take your own picture.


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## Specks (Dec 3, 2012)

The jig is up


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## Kitah (Dec 3, 2012)

They do indeed have nice patterns.

As one who works in the veterinary industry, I am concerned when things like this pop up though- The desire for something 'new' and 'different' is always present in most people, and also the $$ signs flash in front of the eyes. However, my concern with this is that if this trait shows to be heritable, what will happen to future generations with these 'designer' deformities? 

Taking dogs as an example- You can't really name a single dog breed that doesn't have numerous known, genetic defects, yet these animals are still bred continuously. E.g. german shepherds/retrievers/rottweilers/etc with SHOCKING hip dysplasia, and to the worse ones like bulldogs which require assistance to reproduce (both to conceive and c-sections for the pups), or bulldogs, pugs etc with the squashed face (i.e. brachycephalic) which results in significant respiratory problems in many cases- narrow nares, long soft palates that hinder respiration, narrow tracheas... Cardiac diseases, joint diseases, hereditary diseases involving the blood, respiration, neurological, you name it...

Look at the dachshund/'sausage' dog - the spinal issues they have, because someone thought it was a great idea to breed an incredibly short, yet very long dog. Manx cats, bred to have no tail, frequently have debilitating spinal disease. 

Who's to say these skinks aren't in pain already, or that their offspring (if hereditary) won't be in pain or suffer consequences of the deformity, that is purposefully being bred into them. Sure they might eat and move around but have you actually observed how well animals can mask pain?

That's all I'll post in this thread..

Anyway. Just my views, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I just dont want to see the reptile world go downhill like the dog/cat/horse etc 'worlds' have. We already have jags..


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

thank you, that was exactly the point that I was trying to get across, and thanks for the likes.


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## Stuart (Dec 3, 2012)

We can all agree to disagree on the ethics of keeping and or breeding these critters.

Me, I think they look pretty unique and I would own one given the chance.


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## splat868 (Dec 3, 2012)

People will hate me for this,

But, How many of you that think this is cool would be happy for your child to be born 
malformed?

Why is this not a malformation, when if it was a human it would be?

Personally I would face a massive dilema if I had these, I wouldnt be able to kill them, but nor would I deliberately breed them.
Perhaps I would seek a vets opinion.

I feel sorry for them, as if it doesnt correct itself, to me it looks like there will be problems for them.


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## richoman_3 (Dec 3, 2012)

splat868 said:


> But, How many of you that think this is cool would be happy for your child to be born
> malformed?



a 3 - arm kid would be helpful !


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## Cotter (Dec 3, 2012)

*




*


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

Finally people have some sence in them


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## Gibblore (Dec 3, 2012)

Cool lizards Paul. I quite like their patterns


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## Monitors_R_Us (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Finally people have some sence in them


You certainly do not.


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## Glenn (Dec 3, 2012)

These discussions always seem to end up emotional or personal. True colour morphs (not hybrids)are just a variation of a single gene - no different to us having blue eyes, blond hair, etc. And, as someone pointed out earlier, hardly different from any two animals bred together by our choosing and not natural selection. The problems generally arise through inbreeding too closely when trying to reproduce them too quickly.

No-one has to like them - it comes down to personal choice.


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## -Peter (Dec 3, 2012)

Sold!


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## KaotikJezta (Dec 3, 2012)

So can we see some pics of your Dingo


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## Gibblore (Dec 3, 2012)

KaotikJezta said:


> So can we see some pics of your Dingo
> 
> Next pic will be of one with a kenards hire sticker on it


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 3, 2012)

Gibblore said:


> Next pic will be of one with a kenards hire sticker on it



just spat my drink out at that!!!! pmsl!!!!


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## Scleropages (Dec 3, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> I'm obviously the bigger *man *here because im not using personal degrading comments. BTW way I have a pure bred native Australian dingo


Sorry lady.


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## caliherp (Dec 4, 2012)

Lol what a change. From pig-tailed blues to imaginary dingos. This is probably the last post ill make on this thread. O.P at the end of the day it is your decision what you do with your blues. I'll say this I would not consider breeding a reptile or any animal with a birth anomaly. Like others have stated there is no way to tell if these traits will be passed on, there is also no way to tell they won't. As long as your ready to face the reality that these may or may not produce some more extensive abnormalities in the next generation and you ready to cull. Then by all means persue this project. Good luck on whatever decision you make. Be sure to keep us updated.


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## varanophile (Dec 4, 2012)

I've seen pictures of a similar birth defect in leopard geckos, which from memory was due to a nutritional deficiency in the adult breeders. Something akin to spina bifida and folic acid deficiency in people I would guess. 

Another possibility is that it could be due to a problem similar to interuterine growth restriction in humans and deformities like club foot. Was the litter quite large or the mother on the small side?

Maybe it's just me, but if they were mine my first thoughts would be to where I had gone wrong and to what could be done to fix the problem. Obvious (usually single) gene mutations such as albinism are one thing, but chances are here you are dealing with something else. Even is this was to prove to be genetic, from experience with other animals mutations that cause musculoskeletal abnormalities such as this often occur as part of a syndrome, and can have many other more serious, initially less obvious effects.


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## hnn17 (Dec 4, 2012)

i think when they poo they don't drag their tail through it and spread it everywhere.


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## Jeffa (Dec 4, 2012)

It may even be wise to take the Bluey's to get xrayed. That way you should get a good idea on the possible (if any) stresses on the spine.


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## Womagaunt (Dec 4, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> View attachment 272646


lol ur the biggest tool mate

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cheekabee said:


> thank you, that was exactly the point that I was trying to get across, and thanks for the likes.


do you actually keep them or is this just another pic from the internet :/


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## Smithers (Dec 4, 2012)

Jag it up with a pignosed turtle for the double win. lol Good luck with them Paul


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## jedi_339 (Dec 4, 2012)

KaotikJezta said:


> So can we see some pics of your Dingo



I will post one of my uncles dingo, since qld has backwards laws and won't allow them........, nobody steal my picture now 

I'm also interested to know if this is genetic or just a result of cramped conditions inside mum.


Ps. It probably hasn't worked being on my phone, but I can see the picture.


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## Helikaon (Dec 5, 2012)

omg i think i have a het for pig tail 





hehehe


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## Red-Ink (Dec 5, 2012)

Helikaon said:


> omg i think i have a het for pig tail
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Visual het... hmmmmm.... must be a co-dominant trait.


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