# There is no excuse for an experienced keeper to get bitten by their venomous snake



## Tatelina (Sep 26, 2007)

*Experienced keepers getting bitten by elapids...*

After reading someone say that in a thread a while back...I've been thinking.
I know accidents happen, and you can never be too careful.
Wondering what people's thoughts are.


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## Colin (Sep 26, 2007)

> There is no excuse for an experienced keeper to get bitten by their venomous snake


sounds good in theory but even the best and most experienced keepers can sometimes have accidents. 

The aim of every keeper. experienced and in-experienced is to never get bitten by their venomous snakes, but unfortunately sometimes situations occur where accidents do happen. But with careful handling hopefully bites from venomous snakes can be kept at the barest minimum.


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 26, 2007)

G'day,

The fact is that every single venomous snake bite that occurs in a captive situation is avoidable. With the correct handling techniques, sound knowledge of the species and a safe handling environment, the risk of a bite is all but elimated. Unfortunately, there is a lot of venomous keepers who lack all of the above. 

Cheers

Jonno


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## dickyknee (Sep 26, 2007)

You keep snakes, you will get bitten .... might take a long time but one day you will get bitten.... IMO 
I think after a certain amount of time you MAY become complacent , and lose that fear / respect you had when you first got the snake .....
I do not keep vens , but i know when i do get bitten by any of my snakes its 99% my own fault and next time i go to that cage i am much more aware of that snake ...


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## Miss B (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm in the 'accidents happen' camp. 

I don't think any amount of experience can keep you 100% safe from accidents, and not just with venemous snakes either. Any high-risk job or hobby brings with it a certain amount of risk.


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## salebrosus (Sep 26, 2007)

Accidents will always happen. I never think less of a keeper who gets tagged by an elapid. I always think if you keep elapids it's not a matter of if you have been bitten but when. 

Simone.


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## Surfcop24 (Sep 26, 2007)

Have to say... ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN.......

Look at Steve Irwin.... Peter Brock..... Colin Macrae...... Mark Porter....

All but Colin died while doing their own profession.......


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## m.punja (Sep 26, 2007)

I did disagree, but now that I think of it, I am leaning more toward agreeing. Although bites do occure it is normally avoidable. I'd like to hear some stories of people who have been biten that think it was unavoidable. The question isn't do accidents happen, it's should they have happened. I too wouldn't blame or think any less of a keeper for getting tagged.


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## caustichumor (Sep 26, 2007)

No one sets out to get tagged, and snakes don't always follow the rules, however if handled correctly with full attention to the procedures and safety as paramount you should never need that trip to the hospital, I was watching the "Snake Buster" on the Animal Channel the other day and one of the keepers at the Billabong Sanctuary (Wildlife Park In Townsville) got tagged on the lower thigh by a Coastal Taipan, all it takes is a momentary lapse in concentration to ruin your day.


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## Colin (Sep 26, 2007)

m.punja said:


> . Although bites do occure it is normally avoidable. I'd like to hear some stories of people who have been biten that think it was unavoidable. The question isn't do accidents happen, it's should they have happened. .



yes i have to agree. probably all (most) captive bites from vens could (should) have been avoided, but were all human and sometimes make mistakes and errors of judgement. 

It's always easier to look back on a siuation and say I shouldn't have done this or should have done that etc.. but at the time sometimes human error creeps in and accidents happen. Hopefully people learn from their mistakes so it never happens again. 

I have kept elapids years ago but (luckily) never got tagged by any


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## natrix (Sep 26, 2007)

Could be excuses , such as-- 'I was hand feeding my Tiger snake a mouse' , like a guy who posted pics not long ago doing exactly that.
So there are excuses , but none that free the bitten handler of the resonsibility for the consequences i reckon.
Though now i've thought a legit 'excuse' could be that the handler had a sudden asthma attack
or fainted , or a Bee suddenly went up their nose while they were handling an elapid & it bit them in the confusion.


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## -Peter (Sep 26, 2007)

All bites from captive animals are avoidable. Its just what degree of responsibility you are willing to apportion and what risks you feel are acceptable.
If a bite is inevitable then you need to re assess how you deal with your animals and make it not so.
Most incidents that we label accidents are in fact the results of mistakes or lapses in judgement.


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## cris (Sep 26, 2007)

Steve Irwin thrived on taking stupid risks, it was just a matter of time IMO.

I completely agree with Jonno. While ppl will always have excuses, if its a captive snake that bites you its your fault end of story. With the exception of freak medical conditions(stroke, heart attack etc.) or maybe a natural disaster. If you are likely to get a momentary lapse in concentration you obviously shouldnt be handling them.

In saying that though ppl make stupid mistakes, i make them all the time :lol: 
I think alot of the time it would result from complacency and ppl being silly enough to "trust" a snake.


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## m.punja (Sep 26, 2007)

Yeah, I know. I keep a few elapids myself and havn't been evenomated. I guess the fact is as you say, we are only human and no one is perfect.


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## m.punja (Sep 26, 2007)

cris said:


> Steve Irwin thrived on taking stupid risks, it was just a matter of time IMO.
> quote]
> 
> 
> I thought I was the only one that thought this. Nice to know I'm not alone


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## voodoo (Sep 26, 2007)

I keep around a dozen elapids in my collection, most of them are as placid as a show python, but I allways take extra care when handling them. You dont really know what the snake is thinking/feeling so it always pays to be careful. Those who push it *will* get bitten. 
As a snake catcher also, I have been tagged by an Eastern Brown whilst on a call out. Trust me it is the worst feeling I had ever felt. Fortunatly for me the snake did not inject venom. I look at that experience as a wake up call and know I am always extra careful whenever im handling an elapid. Remember you only need one bite to kill you.


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## spilota_variegata (Sep 26, 2007)

Whenever there is a human factor involved, there will be accidents. We as humans are not perfect. It would be interesting to see how many "experienced herps" have been bitten by vens. I'm talking about the people I truly respect and admire - the guys I wanted to be when I grew up. Steve Irwin was someone I truly admired, but as some have already mentioned, it was just a matter of time. He took risks - mostly calculated - but with risk comes danger. He openly stated on more than one occassion that he would probably die doing what he loved doing most  

The only way you're not going to get bitten is to wear a snake proof suit. Even then, the snake will probably swing around and bite you somewhere where noone is going to suck the poison out


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## snakesrule (Sep 26, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day,
> 
> The fact is that every single venomous snake bite that occurs in a captive situation is avoidable. With the correct handling techniques, sound knowledge of the species and a safe handling environment, the risk of a bite is all but elimated. Unfortunately, there is a lot of venomous keepers who lack all of the above.
> 
> ...



While nobody intentions are to be tagged by a an elapid or by any snake.
The fact is we are only human and no matter what species we are whether human, other mammals, fish,reptilies, birds or whatever.
The fact is we all make silly mistakes from time to time but then maybe were not as perfect as you Jonno.


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## -Peter (Sep 26, 2007)

snakesrule said:


> While nobody intentions are to be tagged by a an elapid or by any snake.
> The fact is we are only human and no matter what species we are whether human, other mammals, fish,reptilies, birds or whatever.
> The fact is we all make silly mistakes from time to time but then maybe were not as perfect as you Jonno.


Thats the point, its a mistake, not an accident and with careful planning and procedures you an eliminate the risk.


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## sockbat (Sep 26, 2007)

Surfcop24 said:


> Have to say... ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN.......
> 
> Look at Steve Irwin.... Peter Brock..... Colin Macrae...... Mark Porter....
> 
> All but Colin died while doing their own profession.......


 
Id have to agree.


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## bredli84 (Sep 26, 2007)

m.punja said:


> Yeah, I know. I keep a few elapids myself and havn't been evenomated. I guess the fact is as you say, we are only human and no one is perfect.



does this mean that u have recieved a dry bite?
if so, how did it happen? and have you changed your methods to reduce the possibility of it happening again?

i'm not having a go at you, i would think that there would be no experienced elapid keepers who havn't had a moment or two.


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## caustichumor (Sep 26, 2007)

There would also have to be no excuse for someone to crash their car either! If you paid attention and followed all the rules there would not be any crashes, Yet I don't think we will ever see a crash-free holiday period as we are but mere mortals, and at least a keeper is usually only putting his own life at risk with careless behavior.


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## Chimera (Sep 26, 2007)

The options are too extreme. The fact is that accidents can happen however I would think less of a ven keeper who brags about being bitten several times. I think a good point was made by Wolfgang Wuster on another forum that a disregard for being bitten is a good way to develop an allergy to one of the proteins in the snakes venom. A Collets may not kill you but anaphyaxis will


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## croc_hunter_penny (Sep 26, 2007)

-Peter said:


> Thats the point, its a mistake, not an accident and with careful planning and procedures you an eliminate the risk.



you can't eliminate such an extreme risk (extreme because the outcome can potentially be death) but you can minimise the likelihood of the risk of being bitten by practicing appropriate handling methods. the risk will always be there.

accidents do happen. Experienced trekkers can still roll their ankle on a rock, experienced climbers can lose a foothold, experienced elapid handlers can get bitten. 

-Penny


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## croc_hunter_penny (Sep 26, 2007)

Chimera said:


> ... however I would think less of a ven keeper who brags about being bitten several times. ...



:lol: that reminds me of an american show i watched once of this bloke showing his collection off and with a redneck giggle he says "and i bin bitten 50 er so times a-hyuck" but half his fingers are stumps :shock: if i got bitten more than twice i would be re-thinking collecting vens, not keeping count for bragging rights!


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## MrBredli (Sep 26, 2007)

I voted 'completely agree' but i having re-read the wording of the question i now disagree. There are 2 very good reasons an 'experienced' keeper can be bitten. 

1. Incompetence (experienced doesn't mean they are competent) and,
2. Complacency (which in some ways is a form of incompetence, but it is human nature; you do something for long enough and you will become complacent).


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

i dont care what anyone says,there is always the risk of copping a bite,no matter how experienced some one is,ask your self this,no one at all can possibly say it will never happen to them,thats when there most likely to cop a bite,being over confident,lol,i cop enough from pythons and even blueys and stuff,there slow compared to say a cheesed off fully warmed tiger or taipan,a bite is always a possability,your a fool if u dont think that and should be prepared for the worst


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## OzExcalibur (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm in the "accidents can happen no matter how careful you are" camp.


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## Tatelina (Sep 26, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day,
> 
> The fact is that every single venomous snake bite that occurs in a captive situation is avoidable. With the correct handling techniques, sound knowledge of the species and a safe handling environment, the risk of a bite is all but elimated. Unfortunately, there is a lot of venomous keepers who lack all of the above.
> 
> ...



This might seem a stupid question but do you keep elapids? Have you ever been bitten?



I've been thinking about this statement for a while now... tossing over possible scenarios in my head, different personalities and handling techniques... 
Ofcourse there's a chance of being bitten if you have a seizure or whatever... I'm talking general day to day care of your animals including cleaning, feeding, watering, soaking, inspecting...whatever we all need to do. 
I certainly agree with people becoming complacent with their animals and not exercising enough caution hence being more at risk... but maybe they are just getting to know their animal better and how it reacts?
Testing fate I guess...


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## Sdaji (Sep 26, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> I voted 'completely agree' but i having re-read the wording of the question i now disagree. There are 2 very good reasons an 'experienced' keeper can be bitten.
> 
> 1. Incompetence (experienced doesn't mean they are competent) and,
> 2. Complacency (which in some ways is a form of incompetence, but it is human nature; you do something for long enough and you will become complacent).



Do those two things count as excuses? I wouldn't have thought so.

You'd need to be extraordinarily unlucky to be bitten in any way which you'd have an excuse for (an excuse being an explanation which shows that the person was not at fault). If you're careful, it's quite possible to keep deadly snakes very safely. If you spend your life harassing dangerous animals, you'll probably be killed by one. If you spend your life pushing cars to their absolute limits, you'll probably die in a car accident, if you are careless with snakes, you'll probably be bitten. If you play it safe, you almost certainly won't be.


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## cracksinthepitch (Sep 26, 2007)

I think Cris has a very valid point,, Trust a snake,,.Its a wild animal even in captivity and there is no way we can assume to know what is thinking. The only way you can not be bitten is by eliminating all the risks.(ie the snake). Would love to own a nice Tiger down here but not willing to take that risk. Fatigue , Complacency, Over confidence, Stupidity can all lead to a trip to Hospital.
P.S. Hope no one gets tagged


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

almost certainly wont be?if your a safe driver and follow the rules ect,doesnt mean someone wont colide into u,doesnt matter how safely u handle them and what ever precautions u take,your dealing with an animal that does what it feels is right for it,could be the tamest,nicest animal that u are holding,using all your safe handling techniques ect ect,doesnt mean you are 100 percent safe from even just 1 bite now does it,the fact remains,u put your self at risk every time u come in contact with them,ill state what graeme gow once said
"doesnt matter how experienced u are,if u handle vens on a regular basis your bound to cop a bite sometime in your lifetime"
note he states it was never the snakes fault,but when they bite there doing it in self defence,as they feel threatened,amongst other possabilities,eg hunger strikes,lol,this is a good topic,interesting to read others comments on both sides
my main point is,experienced or not,there is always the chance to get bitten,doesnt matter whos fault it is,the chance is there,your dealing with an animal with a mind of its own,doesnt matter weather there a placid captive or not,anyone can tag you when u least expect it


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## mysnakesau (Sep 26, 2007)

Hope you're not referring to me, I think I've mentioned it, but if you look on NSW License, it states on their Venomous Class license that there is no excuse. I selected disagree because accidents do happen. Most ppl aren't stupid enough to put themselves at risk of being bitten, like hand feeding the tiger snake a mouse. That is inexcusable. But now I wish I selected agreed because if you consider yourself experienced to keep them, just remember that your family members, neighbours and visitors are not, and don't want to come face to face with one of your hudinis. If someone's savage dog bites somebody, the owner is liable, why should it be any different for any other dangerous animal, including the ven. snakes.


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day,
> 
> The fact is that every single venomous snake bite that occurs in a captive situation is avoidable. With the correct handling techniques, sound knowledge of the species and a safe handling environment, the risk of a bite is all but elimated. Unfortunately, there is a lot of venomous keepers who lack all of the above.
> 
> ...


 
Yep, have to agree with Jonno with reference to snake bites it's not an accident...as Peter said it's a mistake by the handler...
Do you know that car accidents are not referred to as "Car Accidents" anymore by the authorities... they are referred to as car crashes, as someone is always at fault and they can, beleive it or not CAN BE AVOIDED... think about it! therefore it's not an accident by defenition it is a crash, someone did something wrong... intended or not!


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

theres no excuse for a million different things,fact of the matter is it happens.
even with the best intentions,fact of the matter its always a possability,no one is 100 percent with anything,even if u fllow the safest procedures,doesnt 100 percent rule it out ,tell me u think it 100 percent rules it out,i wasnt saying hand feeding either,lol,i mean if they picked up a scent they though was food ect,even just a movement as youd be a dill puttin your hands in there with mouse scent on ya,lol


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

hmmm so if a tree falls on your car and crushes it,thats someones fault


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## Serpentes_15 (Sep 26, 2007)

Even Chris Judd can drop a sitter. He may not have an excuse but the reason is that, as good as he is, he is not perfect at football. Snakes are wild animals and not all behaviour can be predicted. No matter how experienced u are no ones perfect and their are scenarios that you may not be prepared to respond to. If that scenario comes by you, you won't have time to assess it and react untill your allready tagged. IMO there is no excuse for ignorance or stupidity though.


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## cement (Sep 26, 2007)

I couldn't decide.
And the reason is that different people have different levels of focusing their attention.
People that are trained to focus intently, should have no excuse.
People that don't have this training will need an excuse.


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

theres an excuse for everything,theres always a reason

if u get bitten,experienced or not the excuse is,well thats always the risk i take handling them even the best handlers in the world can always get bitten,nothing is foolproof in regards to handling


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

richardsc said:


> hmmm so if a tree falls on your car and crushes it,thats someones fault


No offence but that's a silly comparison, no one can tell if a tree will fall on them in a freak accident. Think of this though, maybe the tree has dead limbs- cut them off before they fall, you are out in a wild storm-stay indoors, in a thunderstorm-again stay indoors, handle venemous snakes-use appropriate methods of handling...get the drift, you can "most always" prevent accidents!
If you are out there in the real world these days, everyone is aware of OH&S, it's all about minimising the risks ie risk assesment and appropriate management, same with handling venemous snakes.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 26, 2007)

cement said:


> ...... people have different levels of focusing their attention.
> People that are trained to focus intently, should have no excuse.
> People that don't have this training will need an excuse.



Sounds like me - the one who would need to find an excuse :lol:

I am soon to embark on a Ven. handling course but I must admit I do have trouble focusing my attention. When I'm dedicated to something I focus well but still doesn't stop my mind wandering to another planet. And after spending so long reaching out to pick up pythons, even wild ones, without fear, how do I stop myself reaching out and just picking up a ven. I know they're dangerous, but its that momentary lapse of concentration that scares me the most. I saw someone's baby scaless death adder on the weekend & I had to stop myself reaching out to feel him, even if was no bigger than a worm, just for a split second I forgot I was looking at a dangerous snake. And he'd only take a split second to tag me.


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## -Peter (Sep 26, 2007)

I think we are on our own Jonno.


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

richardsc said:


> theres no excuse for a million different things,fact of the matter is it happens.
> even with the best intentions,fact of the matter its always a possability,no one is 100 percent with anything,even if u fllow the safest procedures,doesnt 100 percent rule it out ,tell me u think it 100 percent rules it out,i wasnt saying hand feeding either,lol,i mean if they picked up a scent they though was food ect,even just a movement as youd be a dill puttin your hands in there with mouse scent on ya,lol


Sorry mate, your comment doesn't make sense!
If I can interpret that, feeding your snake with tongs would eliminate the threat of getting mistaken for food, washing your hands after handling your prey item would eliminate the risk as well, handling your snake after feeding is not advisable anyway, so what was the point of that post?


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

-Peter said:


> I think we are on our own Jonno.


No, i'm with you brother... lol


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2007)

dont know much about handling vens but how do you get them out of their enclosure? im assuming you use a hook and then grab their tail or do you grab their tail first? surely that first movement to actually touch them would be the most risky wouldnt it?

just being padantic here scm 1 but i dont thinkyou could ever "eliminate" the risk but you sure could reduce it significantly by follow proper procedures but i get where you are coming from, am not having a go at you!......not that i can talk about procedures, i wouldnt even knwo where to begin!


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## Sdaji (Sep 26, 2007)

-Peter said:


> I think we are on our own Jonno.



Looks like there are 14 other people who agree with you 

I'm surprised there are so few. Snakes are unpredictable, of course, they are capable of anything within their physical means, of course, but if you don't give them the opportunity to bite you, they won't. If you treat all of your ultra-placid snakes as though they were about to do their best to attack you, you'll be safe. If you assume a snake will not bite you and give it the chance, it might, and that's a mistake on the part of the keeper, not an accident which couldn't have been prevented.

Car accidents are different. Another driver may smash into your car - that's their fault, not yours, but still, someone was at fault, it was preventable. Mechanical failure can occur, and that may result in an accident which was not the fault of the driver. Snake keepers should understand what a snake is capable of, not try to get away with cutting corners because they expect a snake not to take the opportunity to bite. You know what a snake is capable of, if you're in a position where you can't handle it safely, you shouldn't be getting it out of its enclosure. If you are unable to handle it safely whenever required, you shouldn't be keeping it. If you do get bitten, it will only be because of a mistake on your part, or a very, very, unlikely event (an earthquake knocking you over while you're holding a snake on a hook, etc etc  )


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

David Evans said:


> dont know much about handling vens but how do you get them out of their enclosure? im assuming you use a hook and then grab their tail or do you grab their tail first? surely that first movement to actually touch them would be the most risky wouldnt it?
> 
> just being padantic here scm 1 but i dont thinkyou could ever "eliminate" the risk but you sure could reduce it significantly by follow proper procedures but i get where you are coming from, am not having a go at you!......not that i can talk about procedures, i wouldnt even knwo where to begin!


No offence taken at all, this is a debate, not a argument!
Why cant you handle the said snake with the appropriate tongs? You are at a distance more than the strike, why do you have to handle it by hand anyway?
See what I mean, it may be experience or in the case of inexperience, ego, that you tend to flaunt with danger more or put yourself in a situation that could be harmful ie handling the snake by hand. See my point, it is preventable!


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## motman440 (Sep 26, 2007)

phreak accidents do happen. snakes bite. that how it works. if your expirienced it must be even more unexpected.


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2007)

tongs hey...the only pics i have ever seen are with people holding the tail and using a hook to support the head / front portion of the snake.

The risk is always gonna be there and if you are not willing to accept that risk then dont keep them. if you are willing to take that risk then you're responsible for whatever happens from there on in. just my opinion.


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

David Evans said:


> tongs hey...the only pics i have ever seen are with people holding the tail and using a hook to support the head / front portion of the snake.
> 
> The risk is always gonna be there and if you are not willing to accept that risk then dont keep them. if you are willing to take that risk then you're responsible for whatever happens from there on in. just my opinion.


That is one method... LMAO.... I suggest you research or educate yourself, or if you don't read go and watch animal planet and you may see a pair of the tongs I am referring too, that some handlers/herp celebrities use....I'll find you a pic...:lol:
Of course there's risk in handling vens, we all know that, the debate is about managing those risks and eliminating the possible dangers!


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

http://www.snakegetters.com/equip/tongs.html

Just one pic, took all of about 3 seconds.... read this it may prompt you to think! 

Cheers


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2007)

scm1 - handling venomous snakes is one area that i am yet to educate myself in as it is one area of life that i dont feel i will explore so these items you call "tongs" i may frequently use them for rotating sausages on a bbq or maybe even serving pasta but am yet to see them firmly grasping a snake! haha!!

"if you are willing to take that risk then you're responsible for whatever happens from there on in" i feel that this statement implies that i feel there is no excuse, no matter how uneducated i may be on the topic. There may be a reason why it happened but i dont feel there should be an excuse, or at least a valid one.


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2007)

couldnt imagine turning snags with them!


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## da_donkey (Sep 26, 2007)

-Peter said:


> Thats the point, its a mistake, not an accident and with careful planning and procedures you an eliminate the risk.


 

You can never eliminate the risk, only minimise the risk.


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

David Evans said:


> scm1 - handling venomous snakes is one area that i am yet to educate myself in as it is one area of life that i dont feel i will explore so these items you call "tongs" i may frequently use them for rotating sausages on a bbq or maybe even serving pasta but am yet to see them firmly grasping a snake! haha!!
> 
> "if you are willing to take that risk then you're responsible for whatever happens from there on in" i feel that this statement implies that i feel there is no excuse, no matter how uneducated i may be on the topic. There may be a reason why it happened but i dont feel there should be an excuse, or at least a valid one.


 
Well i'll leave it at that, there's no point ....
If you get yourself a pair of those tongs on the link, atleast you'll be able to stand 3 feet away from your BBQ, therefore not burning yourself.... and IF a confused venemous snake should happen to come along and try to mate with one of your sausages on the BBQ, you could grab it with your tongs ( that I informed you of) and gently move it away from your tasty lunch and your family and friends.....AND you wont get bitten because you have eliminated all the risks of being bitten by using long range tongs and therefore not touching the snake with your hands...... EASY BUDDY..:lol: Hope we all learned something here!


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## deebo (Sep 26, 2007)

my first comment was made in jest and i have no dramas on being corrected / informed on subject that i do not know a great deal about....just some stupid banter was all.

On with the debate.........


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

ahhhh probably the best answer so far for my liking there donk

u can never eliminate the risk,only minimise it

nice one,thats what ive been trying to say,lol


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## dpeica (Sep 26, 2007)

Every bite is avoidable. Full stop.


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## m.punja (Sep 26, 2007)

Bredli84 = I did get a dry bite once, was my own fault, was talking and distracted, going to hospital and being rushed in to have all sorts of wires and plugs put on him with machines making all sorts of sounds was a great way to learn how serious this is. However, I was far from being an experienced keeper at the time. 

richardsc = I'm in the SES and what scm1 is refering to is crashes while the car crash either involves mulitple cars or one car rolling, coming off the road ect, not something naturally occuring. Meaning someone is a fault, meaning it wasn't an accident. A tree falling on a moving car in this topic is probably equaled to someone having a heart attack while trying tailing an elapid and coping a tag.

-Peter = I'm with you guys now.

Tong being used for snakes will make and interesting topic. Personally, not something I do or plan to.

When people come and see my collection they see how placid and calm one of my red bellies, one of my tigers and my collets are. Then when I show them my crazy big tiger they ask if I am scared of it. I just tell them that it's not the crazy snakes that'll bite me. It'll be one of the calm ones that I'm not expecting. Saying this keeps me aware and alert and makes me more careful around my calm ones.


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

only 100 percent way to avoid being bitten would be to avoid them in the first place,pmsl


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## flinders (Sep 26, 2007)

Ray Hoser eliminated the risk.


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## da_donkey (Sep 26, 2007)

flinders said:


> Ray Hoser eliminated the risk.


 


LOL it took every bone in my body not to say that in my previous post :lol::lol:


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## Southside Morelia (Sep 26, 2007)

flinders said:


> Ray Hoser eliminated the risk.


LOL... sure did!


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## richardsc (Sep 26, 2007)

well doesnt stop them biting still,lol


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## baxtor (Sep 26, 2007)

natrix said:


> Could be excuses , such as-- 'I was hand feeding my Tiger snake a mouse' , like a guy who posted pics not long ago doing exactly that.
> So there are excuses .


that will be me. I do actually agree with the statement, no excuse.
I seem to do most of the things I shouldn't according to some. I DO trust my snakes that show signs of deserving to be trusted. I DO sometimes handle my snakes around feed time. I don't consider myself "stupid" for doing what I do and I certainly don't consider snakes to be the brain dead animals some consider them to be. And as for the old "not if but when you get tagged",I've kept tigers for more then thirty years and when my tag finally comes I know there will be no excuse, it will be my fault


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## fidzy (Sep 26, 2007)

i think it time ppl should stop saying what steve erwin did was stupid, i no ppl have a right to there opinion but there has never been a person alive who has done more for herps than steve erwin.


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## peterjohnson64 (Sep 26, 2007)

Just like there's no excuse for having a car accident, falling of your roof, getting lung cancer from smoking,


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## cris (Sep 26, 2007)

fidzy said:


> i think it time ppl should stop saying what steve erwin did was stupid, i no ppl have a right to there opinion but there has never been a person alive who has done more for herps than steve erwin.



PMSL im going to get stabbed in the chest by a peaceful sting ray, im really smart  I personally find this statement very insulting, there are a number of ppl on this site who have done more than him. He was a nice person who liked animals, thats about it.


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## Tatelina (Sep 26, 2007)

flinders said:


> Ray Hoser eliminated the risk.



Hahahahaha.... I cannot believe I laughed at that.
*shakes head in disbelief*


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## -Peter (Sep 26, 2007)

Sdaji said:


> Looks like there are 14 other people who agree with you
> )


two times in as many days


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## Jozz (Sep 26, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day,
> 
> The fact is that every single venomous snake bite that occurs in a captive situation is avoidable. With the correct handling techniques, sound knowledge of the species and a safe handling environment, the risk of a bite is all but elimated. Unfortunately, there is a lot of venomous keepers who lack all of the above.
> 
> ...


 
Completely agree. And for whoever it was that asked about getting them out of the enclosure, there is a really good, safe method for that. You can use a tupperware container as a hide, with a hole cut in the corner of the lid. There is another piece of plastic (in the shape of a teardrop) pop rivited onto the lid so that it slides over the hole and stops against the edge of the lid (hope this is making sense). Then, you only need to close the hole over using a hook, and you can pick up the container (tape the lid on). Pretty safe hey.


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## deebo (Sep 27, 2007)

Jozz - that was me asking. Understand your method, sounds good. Thanks
Dave


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## xycom (Sep 27, 2007)

Steve Erwin played up for the camera and got peoples attention. Sure he was bound to come undone but he still managed to draw in the public and get them watching and listening.



If someone has the money to pay their own hospital bill would make it ok to be careless?


Per


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## $NaKe PiMp (Sep 27, 2007)

damn this topic sucks tatelina


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## Tatelina (Sep 28, 2007)

xycom said:


> If someone has the money to pay their own hospital bill would make it ok to be careless?


No way!! It reflects on all keepers and if the media gets a hold of it there will be another wave of 'snakes are so horrible and dangerous..blah blah blah'.
Last thing we need is gunho overconfident people getting bitten and showing society how stupid herpers are. (group mentality and all that).
IMO anyway...
And snakepimp.. Shoosh!


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## hodges (Sep 28, 2007)

peterjohnson64 said:


> Just like there's no excuse for having a car accident, falling of your roof, getting lung cancer from smoking,


 
Couldnt agree more, everyone makes mistakes or has accident's , tho this is just my opinon,
cheers,
brad.


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## Sdaji (Sep 28, 2007)

-Peter said:


> two times in as many days



I'm scared, Peter, very scared  What can we do?


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## -Peter (Sep 28, 2007)

Either Im mellowing or your turning into an ar5ehole


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## Sdaji (Sep 28, 2007)

-Peter said:


> Either Im mellowing or your turning into an ar5ehole



:lol:

You're actually seeming to make more sense and talk less crap lately. I'm almost starting to lose my hatred of you! :shock:

Maybe we can fix thing...

Peter, I think you're dumb!


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## -Peter (Sep 28, 2007)

what are you implying.


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## Sdaji (Sep 28, 2007)

-Peter said:


> what are you implying.



That you're dumb

...and you should have used a question mark rather than a period at the end of your last sentence.

There you go, we can get picky about bullspit! That'll work and I'm good at it! :lol:


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## -Peter (Sep 28, 2007)

I guess I'm not mellowing then.


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## Sdaji (Sep 28, 2007)

:lol:


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