# Breeding a pet rep with a wild one, in the wild?



## nicman72 (Sep 21, 2009)

G'day,
I had my female 3yo Eastern Beardie with me down at a local park today (which is ideal Eastern Beardie territory), and she was waving up a storm. As I was watching her from a seat I wondered, what if a wild male Beardie ran up to her and, well, did what males are meant to do? I'm actually quite keen for her to have some babies this year - is it illegal, or plain unwise, to let nature take its course between a wild rep of any sort with a captive one, even if it actually happens 'in the wild'?
Cheers,
Nic


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## miss2 (Sep 21, 2009)

curious - do u just let her run around on her own???


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## W.T.BUY (Sep 21, 2009)

I think technically if it happened within 72 hours it would be ok (anything out of your possession for longer is illegal). However I would be to worried that your female would run off never to be seen again. I highly doubt a wild male would just come and mate her infrount of you.


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## nicman72 (Sep 22, 2009)

miss2 said:


> curious - do u just let her run around on her own???


 
Yeah, we take all 3 of our beardies for regular outings, whether it's just down to the park, or the markets, or the beach; and we regularly just let them have a run around and bask for an hour or so. We just keep a good eye on them, watch out for predators, and always keep between them and any means of escape. They're our pets, we love them, and we like to include them whenever we can! We even have a little harness (that I bought when I was in Melbourne last) which we put on Rose (Eastern BD) and go fishing. We always keep an eye on her, but it means we don't have to stress about her disappearing in a heartbeat.

As for Rose finding a wild male and mating right in front of me, yeah, I doubt it too, but I don't think I'd stop it if it did happen. This is only my 2nd year keeping Beardies and I haven't bred any. How long or quickly can copulation go for?

NIc


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## AUSGECKO (Sep 22, 2009)

If your not worried about getting a mite or tick infestation in your reptile collection, go for it, let em run around all day.


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## herptrader (Sep 22, 2009)

I would suspect illegal and unwise.

The main problem is that you could be passing on a disease to the wild population that could wipe them out. This is pretty serious and why it would be illegal. Australia's strict quarantine laws are all about his type of scenario and why you cannot even bring native animals back into the country.

On the flip side you are exposing your pet to pathogens etc. from the wild.

IMHO really bad practice.


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## herptrader (Sep 22, 2009)

... you would also have to explain an apparently immaculate conception/parthenogenic conception when you submit your return.... at which point I think you would find yourself getting a visit from the department.


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## gregcranston (Sep 22, 2009)

herptrader said:


> ... you would also have to explain an apparently immaculate conception/parthenogenic conception when you submit your return.... at which point I think you would find yourself getting a visit from the department.


Yes and no. You don't have to state in your return what sex your dragons are, so if you have more than one, there is no saying that one of them could have been the male that helped produce the babies (even if you only have females).
But IMO, it would be a very bad practice, with disease transmission and the like, as already mentioned.


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## fritzi2009 (Sep 22, 2009)

its illegal to move animals from the address theyre licenced under.... im pretty sure... even if its just for a walk?


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## miss2 (Sep 22, 2009)

still preety cool though, do they come when u call them back>?? LOL


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## bowdnboy (Sep 22, 2009)

Yer, been a while since I looked at the regs governing this (for Vic anyway), but I 'm pretty sure that the licensed animals are to stay at the adress on the license. Only allowed to leave the address for seeking medical (vet) attention, or when being bought / sold.

Cheers


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## Lollypop (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm in toowoomba qld where easterns run wild - pet stores aren't allowed to sell them here for this reason, & u have to have a special licence if u want to breed them here. This is to protect the wild ones from being picked up & sold off, ruling brought in by the epa.
So I'd also look in to the epa specifications on breeding of easterns in your area if they live there naturally.
We had a big male eastern sniffing 'round the female centrals last yr in the outside enclosure - I'm pleased they were inaccessible.
Worms mites ticks - yeah, I wouldn't go there.


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## gregcranston (Sep 22, 2009)

fritzi2009 said:


> its illegal to move animals from the address theyre licenced under.... im pretty sure... even if its just for a walk?


Yes, I'm pretty sure this is the case in VIC.


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 22, 2009)

G'day Nic,

Are you having a wind up? I thought this was a little serious until I spotted your photo of you releasing a "wild" Blackheaded Python that was supposedly caught at your friends house at Buderim - hundreds of kilometres outside of BHP range.


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## nicman72 (Sep 22, 2009)

Jonno from ERD said:


> G'day Nic,
> 
> Are you having a wind up? I thought this was a little serious until I spotted your photo of you releasing a "wild" Blackheaded Python that was supposedly caught at your friends house at Buderim - hundreds of kilometres outside of BHP range.



G'day Jonno,

I'm not having you on when I say I caught a BHP (the very one in the picture) under a mate's couch. It was up on the hill in Buderim, in a townhouse that backed onto other properties; it's pretty bushy up there, but it's still pretty much suburbia. I then let it go near where I used to live at Little Mountain (few k's south). 

I remember googling black headed python at the time (I hadn't joined APS back then) and reading that it was fairly common around here. So I just let him go. I guess... it could've been someone's escaped pet?

As for breeding Rose with a wild lizard, thanks for all the suggestions. It seems that it would be both dangerous for her (and possibly the wild mate), and most likely illegal, so I'll give it a miss.

But when it comes to letting my lizards cruise around with me outside, I've never had a problem health-wise. No ticks or mites. You'll probably hate it when I tell you I let them eat insects out there as well! I was told variety in their tucker is a good thing, and again, I've had no problems.


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 22, 2009)

nicman72 said:


> G'day Jonno,
> 
> I'm not having you on when I say I caught a BHP (the very one in the picture) under a mate's couch. It was up on the hill in Buderim, in a townhouse that backed onto other properties; it's pretty bushy up there, but it's still pretty much suburbia. I then let it go near where I used to live at Little Mountain (few k's south).
> 
> I remember googling black headed python at the time (I hadn't joined APS back then) and reading that it was fairly common around here. So I just let him go. I guess... it could've been someone's escaped pet?


 
G'day mate,

The closest to Buderim that you will get BHP's is around Gayndah. It's a safe bet to say that you just sent someones pet snake on a very long journey


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## nicman72 (Sep 22, 2009)

Bugger hey. I feel really bad about that... Do you think it'll survive this far south?

My mate actually called a snake remover to come and get it, but couldn't afford it, so he called me because I keep lizards (yeah... like that means I'm any good with snakes! lol!). I've NEVER handled a wild snake, and tame ones only a couple times in my life, but they probably would've ended up killing it trying to get rid of it, so I was just trying to do the right thing and caught it, put it in a pillow case, and released it the next day. Hopefully not to its doom...

Is there any way you can tell a wild snake from a tame one? Now that I've joined APS, I'll be sure to ask you guys for more information before I act if I find myself in a similar situation.

Cheers for the feedback, I appreciate it.
Nic


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## ADZz_93 (Sep 22, 2009)

imj with frizzi, isnt it illegal to move the animal from the address theyre licenced at? unless your licence states otherwise, or you have a permit or something?


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## AUSGECKO (Sep 22, 2009)

nicman72 said:


> I've never had a problem health-wise. No ticks or mites.


 Many people on here have said that at one stage or another until its actually happened to them, but at the end of the day it sometimes just isn`t worth the risk. As for the variety of insects, it probably wouldnt hurt as long as you know they havn`t been in contact with pesticides.


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## spongebob (Sep 22, 2009)

Putting aside all the pathogen issues this is an interesting hypothetical.

Say a wild reptile fell into a pit with my whatever or you took your pet reptile out on a lead (where that was permitted), then this is potentially a way of increasing the gene pool. I can just imagine that in the future pet reptiles are taken on safari to mate with prized locals....


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## notechistiger (Sep 22, 2009)

It is illegal to remove the animal from the premises where the licence is held, in both Queensland and Victoria (not sure of any others).


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## Parko (Sep 22, 2009)

Some mates of mine once released me in the jungles of an unknown island and let the wild women have their way with me. Let me tell you they threw me around and sucked me dry. I was used and abused in every hetero way you can heterally imagine. Would i recommend it to the amateur? No way! But for the experienced person who isnt satisfied easilly... hell yeah dude go for it!


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## Londos1990 (Sep 22, 2009)

HAHHAHAHAHA....... Bloody awesome!!


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## Dipcdame (Sep 22, 2009)

the prospect of picking up foreign bugs, viruses, or whatever could also be an issue allowing this sort of mix


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## spongebob (Sep 23, 2009)

Parko said:


> Some mates of mine once released me in the jungles of an unknown island and let the wild women have their way with me. Let me tell you they threw me around and sucked me dry. I was used and abused in every hetero way you can heterally imagine. Would i recommend it to the amateur? No way! But for the experienced person who isnt satisfied easilly... hell yeah dude go for it!



and tell me did this result in a nasty little rash?


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## garycahill (Sep 23, 2009)

Does this just seem to be iresponsible reptile keeping & in breach of the terms & conditions of your reptile licences or is it just me.
This kind of thing does nothing to help the cause for other responsible reptile owners.
Owning reptiles is a priveledge, not a right.


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## Rox.n.Lix (Sep 24, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> It is illegal to remove the animal from the premises where the licence is held, in both Queensland and Victoria (not sure of any others).



i'm new to this whole caper, but find that odd. i would have thought -like horses and such- that you could "stud" your animal if you wanted.....


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## redbellybite (Sep 24, 2009)

Sort of now can you see why your mate shouldve bit the bullet and paid for a licenced catcher ...they wouldve known it wasnt a local species...maybe let ya mate in on the fact to put a bit of cash aside to cover a call ..and besides I know a few catchers around the sunny coast that wouldve given you/your mate the option of a payment plan ...I give payment plans ...and as I know the catchers that do around my area ,if I get a NON payer ..it gets back to the others and the next call will be double to cover their payment as well as mine ...not worth it in my opinion as karma usually has a way of coming back and biting you on the butt ...non payer may have had a green tree to be removed first time ... next call could be an eastern brown underneath your fridge or stove now ... ..glad you can see and hope others can take on board why the general public shouldnt relocate ,even if your intensions are all good ..


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## miss2 (Sep 24, 2009)

not trying to take over the thread but how much does a snake catcher usually cost?


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## chondrogreen (Sep 24, 2009)

miss2 said:


> not trying to take over the thread but how much does a snake catcher usually cost?


 
I don't know why anyone would bother paying a relocator when you can call your local animal rescue service and have Reptiles removed for free lol.


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## miss2 (Sep 24, 2009)

not correct chondrogreen
in the ACT TAMS wont remove them unless they are inside your house and causing a threat and rescus groups dont do that, i used to work for RSPCA and we def did not have the resources to remove snakes from peoples yards - might be different in other states though !


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## chondrogreen (Sep 24, 2009)

In NSW Wires have reptile specialists that rescue/relocate free of charge.
I figured every state would have a similar native wildlife recue organisation that does it?


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## miss2 (Sep 24, 2009)

not that i know of - when i had a brown eating my guinea pigs last year TAMS said " is it in your house? " i said no they said " wait for it to go away" lol


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## redbellybite (Sep 24, 2009)

chondrogreen said:


> In NSW Wires have reptile specialists that rescue/relocate free of charge.
> I figured every state would have a similar native wildlife recue organisation.


You figured wrong ...in QLD it can only be done by people holding a damage mitigation permit ..even wildlife carers here dont always have one of those ,so cant attend a callout and remove a snake ...And like myself .I have a huge area to cover on my own ,I can be driving hundreds of kms in 1 day from a few callouts ...I do charge to cover my fuel costs ,my wear and tear on my car and all the paper work that needs to be done and handed into the EPA ..as well as insurance costs ...we get nothing from the government in assistance ...so a reasonable fee is not asking much... .plus am on call 24/7 that means even christmas day !!


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## chondrogreen (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks for the info.
I looked into doing removals here in NSW but decided against it due to the fees involved.
Public liability was a nightmare & didn't even cover snake bite lol so I went and joined Wires instead.


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## notechistiger (Sep 24, 2009)

Rox.n.Lix said:


> i'm new to this whole caper, but find that odd. i would have thought -like horses and such- that you could "stud" your animal if you wanted.....



If you had any respect for quarantine measures, then you wouldn't do it. As has been stated, keeping reptiles is a privilege, not a right. Reptiles, in my opinion, should never be compared to domestic animals.


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## Rox.n.Lix (Sep 24, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> If you had any respect for quarantine measures, then you wouldn't do it. As has been stated, keeping reptiles is a privilege, not a right. Reptiles, in my opinion, should never be compared to domestic animals.



interesting, i dont think the concept i had in my head was quite what came across on paper. i was picturing the type of thing that would be well documented through the same/similar system to what is used for buying and selling etc. i dont see the difference between puchasing a snake for breeding purposes from a reputable and legal source, compared to paying for the "service". if i was into breeding -which i may be one day, i have already seen plenty of beautiful snakes on here that i could understand paying good money to breed from them. not sure if would lead to more or less incidences of inbreeding? i guess it could start to get complicated? :?

to be honest i had never really thought of it before, i just thought it would make for interesting discussion, or someone might have an insight into the history or legislation, or if it varies betwen states.....


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## notechistiger (Sep 24, 2009)

Inbreeding is not a particular problem in snakes, but the issue of _quarantine_ is. I cannot think of one good reputable breeder that would allow their snakes to be "stud", no matter how much money is involved (as most reputable breeders are not, or should not be in it for the money).


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## Rox.n.Lix (Sep 24, 2009)

so (and please excuse my naivety, as i said -i'm new to this), if you bought a rep as a mate for one of your pets, what would be the proper procedure for quarantine?


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## notechistiger (Sep 24, 2009)

I keep the new animal separated from the pre-existing animals (completely separated, as in on the opposite sides of the house). I attend to the old animals before the new and never go back to the old after this. The new are kept in extremely clean conditions (which just means no outside influences, such as branches and the like) to minimalise stress and to determine if the animal in question is problematic. I also do not use the same equipment for the old and new animals (no cross contamination). I do this for twelve months or more. If you haven't already, look up OPMV.


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## Rox.n.Lix (Sep 24, 2009)

notechistiger said:


> I do this for twelve months or more. If you haven't already, look up OPMV.


wow. 12 months! thanks for the rundown. just trying to learn i guess.

cheers.


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## Kersten (Sep 24, 2009)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I don't even know where to start, and not just with the original post.

Parko, it sounds like you were lucky to escape with your life and er....limbs intact. Glad to hear you made it out to tell the tale


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## bradman (Sep 24, 2009)

miss2 said:


> not that i know of - when i had a brown eating my guinea pigs last year TAMS said " is it in your house? " i said no they said " wait for it to go away" lol


 
Sorry to say if i had a tiger or a brown attacking one of my animals or family members and i couldnt remove it or safely remove the animal being attacked, i would save my pet anyway possible.
I love snakes but there is always an acception to that.


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## redbellybite (Sep 25, 2009)

bradman said:


> Sorry to say if i had a tiger or a brown attacking one of my animals or family members and i couldnt remove it or safely remove the animal being attacked, i would save my pet anyway possible.
> I love snakes but there is always an acception to that.


if you had a family member bitten or pet bitten by a snake ...you should be concentrating on doing FIRST AID and getting them to hospital /vets ...not worried about trying to kill the snake thats already bitten ...you put yourself in a high risk cat to get bitten yourself and in the mean time your family/pet member is not recieving the first aid they need all because of your ignorance ...and if it hasnt bitten anyone or any pet member ..then you have time to call a snake remover and watch the snake untill they get there ....


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## Frozenmouse (Sep 26, 2009)

friend of mine bred a female nt childrens with a wild male that was hanging around her out door cage , they opened the door and in he went and did the job and they let him go . true story, 
there is no law against this as i would say it is very rare occurrence , i have had snakes on breeding loan before from friends i have never been asked about how my snakes conceived .


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