# Albino GTP



## solar 17 (Aug 28, 2010)

*Just thought l would post this great photo of an Albino GTP in case some out there hadn't seen one, this one is owned by Damon Salceies in the USA, who was the 1st person to produce an Albino GTP. 100% hets in America sell for approx. $11,000-12,000 au and there is a waiting list....solar 17 [Baden]...this photo has been reproduced with permission of Damon Salceies*


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## byron_moses (Aug 28, 2010)

wow baden thats stunning are u sure its not yours


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## yommy (Aug 28, 2010)

sweet, hottest Yellow/ green  in the world.............


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## Hagos (Aug 28, 2010)

Very nice!
Too bad if you paid 11k for it and it later turned blue or something lol


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## byron_moses (Aug 28, 2010)

Hagos said:


> Very nice!
> Too bad if you paid 11k for it and it later turned blue or something lol


 lol yeah wouldnt that make u happy


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## Kurto (Aug 28, 2010)

hmmm, I'll take 2!

They look so similar to other yellow hatchies when they're young, if you just had a very quick look at a freshly hatched clutch, you'd probably miss it!


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## Dukz13 (Aug 28, 2010)

that a rippa love it


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## jordanmulder (Aug 28, 2010)

wow that's probably the most beautiful snake I have ever seen


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## Pythoninfinite (Aug 28, 2010)

His name is Floyd. As a hatchy he had very pink eyes.

J.


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

That is an absolutely stunning snake.
Interestingly, last year, (or the year before?) I have been offered a pair of "canaries" that looked identical to this specimen. The price was 60K.


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## mungus (Aug 28, 2010)

so are canaries classified as albinos ?


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

No, they are not but the similarity was incredible.


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## pythrulz (Aug 28, 2010)

absolutly stunning Baden worth every cent or dime


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## zookieboi (Aug 28, 2010)

Selective breeding is seeing snakes getting close to that amount of yellow


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## python_dan89 (Aug 28, 2010)

thats crazy


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## burger (Aug 28, 2010)

Kurto said:


> hmmm, I'll take 2!
> 
> They look so similar to other yellow hatchies when they're young, if you just had a very quick look at a freshly hatched clutch, you'd probably miss it!



You would be kicking yourself if you didnt realise when it was a hatchy, and sold it off! and some other lucky schmuck got this fine creature for $1200...


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## James..94 (Aug 28, 2010)

That's a beautiful snake


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## Wally (Aug 28, 2010)

burger said:


> You would be kicking yourself if you didnt realise when it was a hatchy, and sold it off! and some other lucky schmuck got this fine creature for $1200...


 
As has already been mentioned, the red eyes as a hatchie would have been a give away. I'd like to see a pic of it as a hatchie though to compare the differences.


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## Jay84 (Aug 28, 2010)

So beautiful.... how long do you think till we have them in Australia?! Will be interesting times.


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## WomaPythons (Aug 28, 2010)

wudnt be suprised if they were in oz sumwhere


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

They are here (not with me though - bummer).


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> As has already been mentioned, the red eyes as a hatchie would have been a give away. I'd like to see a pic of it as a hatchie though to compare the differences.



Red eyes ...... so is this an albino?

View attachment 161311


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## Wally (Aug 28, 2010)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no.


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

So, can you define better what you mean by "red eyes"?
I know this is not an albino but it has got red eyes. Newbies may think this is the McCoy.


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## Wally (Aug 28, 2010)

I actually meant pink eyes, and I think you know what I'm alluding to.


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

I know albino from normal but it may be confusing to others, less experienced with GTPs. Red / pink / retina / vessels ???


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## ezekiel86 (Aug 28, 2010)

Amazing snake...
When i opend it i was thinking it would be ghost white or somthing..but even more stunning!
The eyes will have Pink slits not black...pretty sure there is a pick in Greg Maxwells book im going to see if i can find for you guys


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## Wally (Aug 28, 2010)

Point taken Michael.


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## cris (Aug 28, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> That is an absolutely stunning snake.
> Interestingly, last year, (or the year before?) I have been offered a pair of "canaries" that looked identical to this specimen. The price was 60K.


 
IMO yours look better, selling at $60k sounds like a profitable import business though.


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

This is perhaps even more amazing albino. I have to ask Rico to bring one with him when he comes to Cairns in next month. LOL (for those with retarded sense of humor - this is a joke).


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## krusty (Aug 29, 2010)

they are realy realy nice.


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## Mordum (Sep 2, 2010)

Truly stunning


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## Kristy_07 (Sep 2, 2010)

Dear Santa,

This year, for Christmas, I would like....


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## Kanga-Who (Sep 2, 2010)

Oh YES please


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## PimmsPythons (Sep 2, 2010)

simply stunning.
its a shame most will end up in the freezer......opps ,sorry,wrong thread.getting confused with all these pretty snakes and freezer threads.


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## Jk888 (Dec 7, 2010)

i like the standard gtp but a albino is a nice change =D cheers for the pic


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## pythons73 (Dec 7, 2010)

Now with the jags coming out of the closet,lets see how long it takes for something like this to come out..As with with the Jags because it was a well known breeder NOTHING was said,if it was Jo blow it wouldve been a different story...If the same person mentioned one of these,as with the Jags NOTHING would be said..But if I and someone else,we would be called all different names etc...So lets just wait for someone to mention these before people jump up and down...Wouldnt it be a shame if you breed some greens and you happen to have a few and didnt realise...So whats the difference that you can notice as hatchlings compared to normals...


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## CodeRed (Dec 7, 2010)

pythons73 said:


> Now with the jags coming out of the closet,lets see how long it takes for something like this to come out..As with with the Jags because it was a well known breeder NOTHING was said,if it was Jo blow it wouldve been a different story...If the same person mentioned one of these,as with the Jags NOTHING would be said..But if I and someone else,we would be called all different names etc...So lets just wait for someone to mention these before people jump up and down...Wouldnt it be a shame if you breed some greens and you happen to have a few and didnt realise...So whats the difference that you can notice as hatchlings compared to normals...



you can see the pink eyes with the hatchlings


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## pythons73 (Dec 7, 2010)

Same applies with Greens as the Darwns...Cheers Codered..


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## harley0402 (Dec 7, 2010)

that is amazing, i sooo want one hehe


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## D3pro (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I saw an image of a hatchy, the pattern was very light and it had pink eyes. So there is a notable difference from the sibs.
Can't wait till they pop out on the market lol

Their tail ins't black ether... there you go


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## sara_sabian (Dec 7, 2010)

in Greg Maxwells book there are some pictures of the albino hatchy with a sibling, the difference is fairly noticeable. The dark brown markings were a lot lighter compared to the sibling.


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

sara, the brown markings don't mean anything. They are variable within every clutch and they don't indicate what the snake will look like as an adult. It's the pink eyes that identifies albinos.


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## sara_sabian (Dec 7, 2010)

Fair enough, I know there's variation, I just thought this one might have been considerably lighter for that reason.


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## herpkeeper (Dec 7, 2010)

does anyone have a pic or two of an adult they would like to post ?


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

The first photo posted by solar17 is an adult.


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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

I find it remarkable that already a fairly expensive morph like that has been smuggled into Australia. Usually theres a lag until they become cheap and common in the states. Increased chance of getting a few pairs survive if you bring in a whole clutch. Big risk (cash-wise)... Surely GTP don't travel that well in the cargo hold of a plane?


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

Are you sure they are in Australia?


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## longqi (Dec 7, 2010)




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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah Michael, photos have been put up of the ones that arrived in Australia last year (or was it this year?). I don't live and breath herp morph so I'm not 100% on the date.


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> Yeah Michael, photos have been put up of the ones that arrived in Australia last year (or was it this year?). I don't live and breath herp morph so I'm not 100% on the date.



Oh well, we have got everything now don't we? Now that many people breed GTPs, it's a matter of time and someone will hatch the first "made in Australia" albino. LOL


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## Wally (Dec 7, 2010)

It's a pretty GTP that Baden posted but personally I'd have a green one all day every day.


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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm sure "Australian made" GTP won't be far off... they might have some USA heritage though...

Unfortunately we don't breed thousands of GTP to improve the odds of these things turning up. Not to say it won't happen though, but look at the number of macs produced... The hobby has had albinos pop up once. And then Sdaji's albino death adders. As far as I'm aware, they are the only two "captive bred" albinos in the hobby. Everything else originated from either overseas or a wild animal found by chance. 

We all know this though....


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## D3pro (Dec 7, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> I'm sure "Australian made" GTP won't be far off... they might have some USA heritage though...
> 
> Unfortunately we don't breed thousands of GTP to improve the odds of these things turning up. Not to say it won't happen though, but look at the number of macs produced... The hobby has had albinos pop up once. And then Sdaji's albino death adders. As far as I'm aware, they are the only two "captive bred" albinos in the hobby. Everything else originated from either overseas or a wild animal found by chance.
> 
> We all know this though....



Dont you mean 3? Darwin, Death Adder, Mac?


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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

Nope, the original darwin was found out in the scrub.


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## krusty (Dec 7, 2010)

not bad not bad at all.


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> Nope, the original darwin was found out in the scrub.


 
So was the albino olive.


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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

As was the albino redbellied blacksnake.... Where has that gone? I'm sure it (or it's progeny) will turn up in the hobby again sometime down the line.

This is way off track.... 

Back to yellow green tree pythons, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of them in the near future. Perhaps the heritage of the albinos will be traceable as a fair bit of work has been done on greens. Not sure if anyone has looked at relatedness of individuals but if they have the ground work has already been done.


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## pythons73 (Dec 7, 2010)

The Darwin and Olive albinos were originally wild caught...Its only a matter of time here in Aus that every species will be albino...


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## dean30bb (Dec 7, 2010)

whoa thats awesome


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## ezekiel86 (Dec 7, 2010)

i would loveeee one


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## Wally (Dec 7, 2010)

pythons73 said:


> The Darwin and Olive albinos were originally wild caught...Its only a matter of time here in Aus that every species will be albino...



Albinism in P vitticeps has so far been fatal in captive bred specimens. I wonder if this could occur in other species.


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> Perhaps the heritage of the albinos will be traceable as a fair bit of work has been done on greens. Not sure if anyone has looked at relatedness of individuals but if they have the ground work has already been done.


 
The primers for GTPs are readily available, all you need is to find a lab that would run microsatelite testing.


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## snakeluvver (Dec 7, 2010)

Its a beautiful snake, however it is not worth the rpice its being sold for imo. If they had a leucistic one (pure white) then... woah.


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## Klaery (Dec 7, 2010)

Wally76 said:


> Albinism in P vitticeps has so far been fatal in captive bred specimens. I wonder if this could occur in other species.


 
I believe people (including some here?) have had albino green tree frogs that never successfully make it past metamorphosis


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## longqi (Dec 7, 2010)

But the Chondros on display here are not albinos
Its very clear there have some of the poor genetics that causes albinism
But their skin contains pigment and their eyes are close to normal

In *oculocutaneous albinism Types 1-4 with different levels with pigmentation* (despite its Latin-derived name meaning "eye-and-skin" albinism), pigment is lacking in the eyes, skin and hair. (The equivalent mutation in non-humans also results in lack of melanin in the fur, scales or feathers.

At some stage we have to question the deliberate breeding of weaker genes into the gene pools of our animals
For example...... If two albino humans get married they are strongly advised against having children.....
Yet we continue to try to produce albino animals????

So if every species will be albino then every species will be weaker
..


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## Radar (Dec 7, 2010)

D3pro said:


> Dont you mean 3? Darwin, Death Adder, Mac?



The mac was actually found in the scrub as well. Or should I say, both of the original albino macs.....in the same area....


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## Nephrurus (Dec 7, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> The primers for GTPs are readily available, all you need is to find a lab that would run microsatelite testing.



As a green python breeder, would you consider keeping and breeding this morph knowing it's heritage? Do you think it's a likely risk that NPWS might "crack down" or at least, do a bit of investigating?


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## junglepython2 (Dec 7, 2010)

rednut said:


> The mac was actually found in the scrub as well. Or should I say, both of the original albino macs.....in the same area....



I think they were the leucistics the albino was meant to be captive bred.


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## Waterrat (Dec 7, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> As a green python breeder, would you consider keeping and breeding this morph knowing it's heritage? Do you think it's a likely risk that NPWS might "crack down" or at least, do a bit of investigating?


 
Which morph do you mean - the albino?


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## Radar (Dec 7, 2010)

Ah fair enough, I didn't realise any had been produced in captivity. 

And on the other note, any lab with a centrifuge, a tetrad block, some gels and some freshman slave labour is capable of running microsat testing....


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## Bushman (Dec 7, 2010)

pythons73 said:


> ..As with with the Jags because it was a well known breeder NOTHING was said,if it was Jo blow it wouldve been a different story...If the same person mentioned one of these,as with the Jags NOTHING would be said..


NOTHING could be further from the truth!


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## D3pro (Dec 7, 2010)

Lets not turn this good thread into another jag debate.
Cheers


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## snakeluvver (Dec 7, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> This is perhaps even more amazing albino. I have to ask Rico to bring one with him when he comes to Cairns in next month. LOL (for those with retarded sense of humor - this is a joke).


 
woooooooaaaaaaahhhhhh


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## Bushman (Dec 7, 2010)

Just stating a fact. Anyone associated with smuggling (read exotic bloodlines) even indirectly, has blood on their hands and mud on their face.


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## longqi (Dec 7, 2010)

But Bushman
So long as it involves Chondros it seems everyone turns a blind eye to smuggling
You would be very very lucky to find any purely Australian chondros anywhere on the market now
Imagine the bloodlust if someone put a picture of their Albino Ball Python in here??


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## Bushman (Dec 7, 2010)

It's certainly not true that _everyone_ turns a blind eye to smuggling/exotic lines, including the authorities. 
There's quite a few breeders of pure Aussie bloodlines on the market e.g Michael Cermak being the most well-known but there's a few other breeders of pure Australian GTP's as well.


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## DanN (Dec 7, 2010)

The authorities can, as can anyone else that wants to pay, send off DNA samples from keepers animals to be tested. Since before 2003 anyone that wanted to know could determine if their animal was Australian or from Southern or Northern New Guinea. 

Whether they ever will or not - who knows?


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## ramzee86 (Dec 7, 2010)

Hey guys, for you's who wanted to see the difference between a normal GTP Neonate to an Albino, i got these pics from the more complete chondro pg 122, 123
Sorry for the crappy quality!


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

Nephrurus said:


> As a green python breeder, would you consider keeping and breeding this morph knowing it's heritage? Do you think it's a likely risk that NPWS might "crack down" or at least, do a bit of investigating?


 
If I had one albino GTP, I would have it prominently displayed in my house (indoors) and admire it every time I walk past. If I had two albinos, I would sell one to finance my other projects. As far as crack down or investigation - if I obtain any snake through the proper channels, i.e. with paperwork, then I wouldn't have to worry. If the authorities followed the track and find that the animal was illegally obtained by the person I got it from, then I would be the victim, not the villain.


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## Jungle_Freak (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> If I had one albino GTP, I would have it prominently displayed in my house (indoors) and admire it every time I walk past. If I had two albinos, I would sell one to finance my other projects. As far as crack down or investigation - if I obtain any snake through the proper channels, i.e. with paperwork, then I wouldn't have to worry. If the authorities followed the track and find that the animal was illegally obtained by the person I got it from, then I would be the victim, not the villain.



Good post Michael and totally correct.
If you legally purchase the animal then its legal untill proven otherwise.
Hyperthetical judgements on the internet are not facts? only opinions .

cheers
Roger


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## Jay84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> If I had one albino GTP, I would have it prominently displayed in my house (indoors) and admire it every time I walk past. If I had two albinos, I would sell one to finance my other projects. As far as crack down or investigation - if I obtain any snake through the proper channels, i.e. with paperwork, then I wouldn't have to worry. If the authorities followed the track and find that the animal was illegally obtained by the person I got it from, then I would be the victim, not the villain.



So would you breed the albino??


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

I thought I made my point quite clear. ????


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## Jay84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I thought I made my point quite clear. ????




Michael, i was just asking.


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

I know but your question was hazy.

Would I breed from one albino with normal GTP?
Would I breed from a pair of ablinos?
I am interested in having anything at all to do with albino GTPs?

It's 'no' to all of the above. If I was given one, I would be very happy to keep it but I wouldn't pay any money for what I consider to be a freak. That's when one has to be honest with himself - Am I in this for the joy or for the money? Of course, a clutch of albinos would make me rich.


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## Jay84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I know but your question was hazy.
> 
> Would I breed from one albino with normal GTP?
> Would I breed from a pair of ablinos?
> ...



That is all i was curious to know.... next time i will be sure to ask a more direct question to avoid the 'haze'

Thankyou


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## hansel1313 (Dec 8, 2010)

I would swap my wife for one of these!!!

What a smashing specimen!!


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

How about a swap for ordinary GTP? Is your wine an albino? If not, it would be a fair swap, eh? :lol: Apart from snakes and postage stamps, I also collect wifes (great hobby).


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## Wally (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> How about a swap for ordinary GTP? Is your *wine* an albino? If not, it would be a fair swap, eh? :lol: Apart from snakes and postage stamps, I also collect wifes (great hobby).


 
Never far from ones mind eh Michael?

Collecting wives as a hobby is expensive, more so than reptiles.


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## hansel1313 (Dec 8, 2010)

This wife is very expensive..To keep....Free to good home..... a proven breeder however but has a very typical jungle temprament and is highly venomous!!


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

You're right. Besides, she probably wouldn't be very happy in an outdoor enclosure. LOL

Back to albinos; those of you who breed albino darwins or any other species, can you tell me - is the 1st, 2nd, ... gen reproductively viable? I am just thinking, one could make sh** loads of money by breeding from albino pairs (therefore producing 100% albino offspring) and selling them, presumably to buyers that also want to make sh** loads of money. But what would it do to the breeder's reputation if the progeny proves non-viable?
Has it happened to anyone?


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## Jay84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> You're right. Besides, she probably wouldn't be very happy in an outdoor enclosure. LOL
> 
> Back to albinos; those of you who breed albino darwins or any other species, can you tell me - is the 1st, 2nd, ... gen reproductively viable? I am just thinking, one could make sh** loads of money by breeding from albino pairs (therefore producing 100% albino offspring) and selling them, presumably to buyers that also want to make sh** loads of money. But what would it do to the breeder's reputation if the progeny proves non-viable?
> Has it happened to anyone?


 
Is it common in other animals to experience infertile offspring of albino to albino pairing??


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

That's what I am asking.


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## longqi (Dec 8, 2010)

the Offspring usually are fertile
But they often have more pronounced defects as well
Burmese Albinos have been bred for years now with no apparent increase in infertility in each batch


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## Waterrat (Dec 8, 2010)

Good to hear. I have no idea as I don't have any interest in albinos. What are the usual defects Longqi?


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## CodeRed (Dec 8, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> Is it common in other animals to experience infertile offspring of albino to albino pairing??


 
dunno about albinos, but I heard that pied ball pythons have similar problems


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## Jay84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Coming from keeping birds when i was younger. With most new bird mutations thre was always a special effort to breed the mutation bird with a split bird (het). This was to strenghten the mutation as the new mutations birds were generally smaller birds and not as strong. This bred stronger mutation birds.

When 2 mutation birds were bred together the resulting offspring were smaller and weaker than the normal birds.

I dont think the same has become evident in reptiles though?


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