# Varanus pilbarensis



## mrkos (Feb 20, 2016)

I saw one of these critters a long time ago in a cave in the Pilbara and have been fascinated by them since. A few years ago when I had a pair of glauerti I used to dream of owning a pair. After alot of searching and phone calls I was informed they were around in very small numbers and basically impossible to get. It seems the tides have changed as twice in the past few months I have seen these incredible monitors up for sale as hatchlings and adults around se qld and they look awesome. Unfortunately for me the passion and time dedicated to keeping these unique and rare monitors has waned over the years as has the compulsiveness to fork out the many thousands required for such a purchase. No real intent to this thread just throwing some thoughts out there cheers.


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## pinefamily (Feb 20, 2016)

It is the rarity that pushes the price up. Last year I was lucky enough to get hold of one of my "dream" monitors, a tristis orientalis.


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## BredliFreak (Feb 21, 2016)

Don't lose your passion mate! I guess it'll be the same as the glauerti, as more passionate keepers start buying them, the price will wane. You are lucky to see one in the wild!


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## richoman_3 (Feb 21, 2016)

I hope they never make it into the hobby...
They will just be another WA monitor that'll be abused...


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## pinefamily (Feb 21, 2016)

richoman_3 said:


> I hope they never make it into the hobby...
> They will just be another WA monitor that'll be abused...



What do you mean?


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## Bushfire (Feb 21, 2016)

They will be on WAs list before the end of the year. The department has signed it off and sitting with the minister. Some are going well atm with them in QLD and although there is some in NSW the department wont issue any new import permits for them for at least some time. Glauerti are still reasonably rare considering how long they have been in captivity and breeding is still considered rare and not consistent among those with pairs. From what ive seen hatchlings have maintained their price since day dot, over 12yrs now. If you have an interest in pilbarensis and can legally keep them do yourself a favor and get them despite the cost they are well worth it for those who have more than just a passing interest in monitors.


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## kingofnobbys (Feb 21, 2016)

richoman_3 said:


> I hope they never make it into the hobby...
> They will just be another WA monitor that'll be abused...



I think you are on the money there.

There is already enough choice for those who want native reptiles with the animals already held in captive breeding programs using reptile who haven't been taken from the wild.

If you want to admire these, visit the region they are found in , contribute to the development of eco-tourism there , and create some jobs , take you camera and shoot away to your heart's content and take loads of photos. It isn't necessary to take them from the wild or keep them in enclosure. 

Also , all that will happen if people can keep them is a few "professional" breeders will produce a very small number of specimens to sell to the hobbysists (most of whom will never be able to afford them or to breed them themselves, and so a "elite" breeders will make a load of money from the species).


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## richoman_3 (Feb 21, 2016)

All the WA animals get ridiculously poached to keep up with the demand from the eastern states...
A few of the 'licenced collectors' only care about money and rape and pillage populations and destroy habitat in the process... 
The reptile captivity hobby has become a bit of a joke lately


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## pinefamily (Feb 22, 2016)

richoman_3 said:


> All the WA animals get ridiculously poached to keep up with the demand from the eastern states...
> A few of the 'licenced collectors' only care about money and rape and pillage populations and destroy habitat in the process...
> The reptile captivity hobby has become a bit of a joke lately


Got you now, thanks.
Have to agree with you there, although it probably happens Australia wide.


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## richoman_3 (Feb 22, 2016)

pinefamily said:


> Got you now, thanks.
> Have to agree with you there, although it probably happens Australia wide.



It does, but the WA animals go for high prices and can be 'legally' collected by people with permits.. So you can see where greed comes into it


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## BredliFreak (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, I agree Nick. Nowadays alot reptile keeping is for the money, not the passion. A healthy balance of both is fine, and honestly it's alright to have more species in captivity to those willing to meet their needs but at the end of the day the driving factor is money :/ What a shame


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## NickGeee (Feb 22, 2016)

Plenty of stories of people duct taping small monitors to their legs in order to get through airport security..


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## imalizardbro (Feb 23, 2016)

It may be a joke to an 18 year old kid, but that is about as far as it goes.

Reality is they will be popular one day because of their small size and colour.


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## richoman_3 (Feb 24, 2016)

imalizardbro said:


> It may be a joke to an 18 year old kid, but that is about as far as it goes.
> 
> Reality is they will be popular one day because of their small size and colour.



Whats a joke?


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## BredliFreak (Feb 24, 2016)

Wait up. Are we talking about pilbarensis, or hamersleyensis as well?


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## imalizardbro (Feb 24, 2016)

"The reptile captivity hobby has become a bit of a joke lately" 

This is what you stated Richoman, so it may be a joke to you perhaps because you don't put in time and effort to understand its coming leaps and bounds.

Just as a side note the "reptile captivity hobby" is called herpetoculture.


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## NickGeee (Feb 24, 2016)

imalizardbro said:


> "The reptile captivity hobby has become a bit of a joke lately"
> 
> This is what you stated Richoman, so it may be a joke to you perhaps because you don't put in time and effort to understand its coming leaps and bounds.
> 
> Just as a side note the "reptile captivity hobby" is called herpetoculture.



Are you in any of the Facebook groups?
The amount of **** flinging, general unprofessionalism from "professionals" and petty squabbles started over something as insignificant as the price of a snake hook is stupidly ridiculous. It is a joke. " leaps and bounds"? It's going in the wrong direction...


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## CrazyNut (Feb 24, 2016)

My dream monitors are V.kingorum, v.brevicauda and v.prasnius haha how do you think I feel living in VIC lol don't let go of your dreams man.


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## Bushfire (Feb 24, 2016)

CrazyNut said:


> My dream monitors are V.kingorum, v.brevicauda and v.prasnius haha how do you think I feel living in VIC lol don't let go of your dreams man.



At least you get hold onto the fact that all of them are present in captivity and in private Australian hands legally. Maybe on the next 10yr review there is a greater push to free up the restricted lists or you might get lucky and govt cut backs mean that it isn't efficient or worthwhile them maintaining the restrictions so they do it voluntarily.

The way some are going on we already have all everyone should ever what and there is no need expand or accommodate other interests further. Maybe we should just restrict all the species list back to only the established python species, the majority of license holders would still be happy as that what the majority keep and as it doesn't affect them are likely to support it.


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## BrownHash (Feb 24, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Wait up. Are we talking about pilbarensis, or hamersleyensis as well?



Those in captivity in the eastern states are likely to be both, _V. pilbarensis _and _V. hamersleyensis. _If either of these species get added to the Western Australian keepers list then no doubt new wild caught animals will be collected, which should result to less ambiguous individuals being available. However, like all the other collecting this has the potential to be exploited.


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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Yeah, it's a shame really. If we try and get some pure stock (captive lizards are likely to be hybrids), then the population will likely be diminished by over-collection.

Prasinus are in captivity? How much do they go for?


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 25, 2016)

richoman_3 said:


> I hope they never make it into the hobby...


Explain to me why we in Western Australia should be denied access to keeping our own animals, especially given how many species we have and how few we can yet keep?


richoman_3 said:


> ....A few of the 'licenced collectors' only care about money and rape and pillage populations and destroy habitat in the process....


On what facts or other information do you base this accusation?


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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Blue, I would agree with Nick to some extent. While I haven't heard of particularly bad cases, Geckos, dragons and skinks are often wild caught. Jacky Dragons, Marbled geckos, Dtellas and Broad-tailed geckos are illegally collected in fairly high numbers


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## NickGeee (Feb 25, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Blue, I would agree with Nick to some extent. While I haven't heard of particularly bad cases, Geckos, dragons and skinks are often wild caught. Jacky Dragons, Marbled geckos, Dtellas and Broad-tailed geckos are illegally collected in fairly high numbers



Not to mention Goldfields bobtails in decent number being posted via express post from perth, and a ****tone of WA egernias and other rockdwelling monitors like acanthurus getting their habitat smashed to bits by poachers, it's pretty sad.


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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Which monitors and egernias? I would assume things like kingorum and perenties?


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## NickGeee (Feb 25, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Which monitors and egernias? I would assume things like kingorum and perenties?


E. Stokesii has been decimiated, I think the varanus are mainly acanthurus and tristis, but probably a lot more.


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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Yeah Stokesii came to mind


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## longirostris (Feb 25, 2016)

The collection of most reptiles for the herpetocultural industry in Australia whether legally on permit by licensed takers or even illegally as has been suggested here by some to take place, is generally not considered to be a major problem for most extant species and populations. The real problem that most species face in maintaining robust populations is the degradation of habitat by clearing for human occupation and or land use and the introduction of feral animals in the ecosystem again usually as result of human intervention. This is particularly so for cats in the case of smaller species of reptiles. Aside from the feral cat issue, the number of people who let their cats wander around at night completely oblivious to the damage they are causing is brain snapping. I remember seeing a post here a few years ago on Feral cats and a case where one that was shot in SA I think, was opened up to examine its stomach contents. The cat had several painted and earless dragons as well as other native wildlife still being digested. I can't remember the exact numbers but it was staggering just how much this one cat had actually killed and eaten.

Qute frankly if we are going to get angry about the status or our reptiles in their natural environment and in particular declining populations then we should probably focus on what is causing the most damage. For most species it is not the hobbyists or enthusiasts demand for specimens that is causing the problems. They are not even the tip of the iceberg. There are more reptiles that are road kill in a month than would be collected by enthusiasts or takers in a year. 

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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Spot on longirostris. at the end of the day we need to look at the bigger picture: There are far worse things than illegal collections. Roads are a good example, too bad there isn't much we can do, there will always be bogans who like doing donuts on top of textys.


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## CrazyNut (Feb 25, 2016)

Bushfire said:


> At least you get hold onto the fact that all of them are present in captivity and in private Australian hands legally. Maybe on the next 10yr review there is a greater push to free up the restricted lists or you might get lucky and govt cut backs mean that it isn't efficient or worthwhile them maintaining the restrictions so they do it voluntarily.
> 
> The way some are going on we already have all everyone should ever what and there is no need expand or accommodate other interests further. Maybe we should just restrict all the species list back to only the established python species, the majority of license holders would still be happy as that what the majority keep and as it doesn't affect them are likely to support it.


If they restricted to pythons only, I think I might walk up to DEPI (or whatever its called now) and slap them lol brevicauda are on licence (advanced sadly).... Didn't know kingorum was in captivity in Aus? I know U.S have them (that ***** me about U.S, they have all our wildlife but can get it easier). Thats kinda cool. And therer is only two prasinus I know of lol


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## BredliFreak (Feb 25, 2016)

Yeah, kingorum was for sale the other day on here

Who keeps the Prasinus?


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 25, 2016)

I would still like answers to my questions from the person who made the comments. i believe this is important, otherwise I would not have asked.
[MENTION=6733]longirostris[/MENTION]. I can only agree (and good to you see you contributing here). The feral cat in question contained 30 lizards in its stomach.


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## CrazyNut (Feb 25, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Yeah, kingorum was for sale the other day on here
> 
> Who keeps the Prasinus?


QLD fellow don't know the name. He displayed them at S&T last year, I was kicking myself over it, why can't I live in QLD :/

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here ya go mate. I found a pilbarensis for sale on Facebook.... $2000.... Totally worth it lol - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1405475906447610/permalink/1549219138739952/

Admins I'm sorry about the link to Facebook (not sure if it is allowed).


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 28, 2016)

I am given to wonder if my questions will be answered. In my experience, where controversial statements are posted and responses or queries related to these posts are not acknowledged by the original poster, it is invariably the work of a troll. [MENTION=21573]richoman_3[/MENTION], please respond and demonstrate this is not the case. 

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Licensed takers are a ‘soft target’ for those wanting to shift the finger of blame away from themselves... poachers. And there are also those who have some sort of idealististic problem with wild taking and look to discredit it whenever possible.. Yet ask those spreading the rumours for a name... and all of a sudden the conversation falters!. Suddenly line of who told who told who becomes momentarily questionable.

Poaching in WA has been going on for a long time. There are individuals who have been making regular trips to WA for many, many years, only one of whom in recent memory has been caught and prosecuted. Then there are those who make the one-off trips, to collect as much as they can in the shortest possible time, solely for the money. To prove my point, you only have to look at the number of WA endemics (and locales) that appeared on legal keeping lists in the eastern states long before they were legally able to be collected in WA and then there are those that have never been legally allowed to be collected here. And the number of species has increaseds over time and continues to do so. And then there's the network of illegal keeping establish over there (and to a comparatively minor degree here) which includes rare WA animals and exotic reptiles. 

If you are a poacher and want to take the heat of what you do, then the easiest way is to start rumours about licensed takers. Never mind that licensed takers have to account for every animal they collect, where and when, pay a significant royalty on each, are subject to random, surprise inspections, have to maintain animals for at least three months before they can on-sell them and also need to get them healthy, eating and adjusted to captivity or people won’t deal with them again. They also need to be able to collect animals on a long term basis if they want to stay in the game. Poachers don’t have to do any of that. Yet somehow people think it is reasonable that it is more likely licensed takers that rape and pillage habitat and populations in this state.... 

As an unfortunate yet inevitable down-side of legalising keeping in this state, we are now seem to be developing a new breed of home-grown poachers with links to those over east. This new breed have also contributed to the falsehoods generated. One particular taker I know of has been approached by a number of individuals to legalise illegally taken reptiles and refused. Sometime after he was he was anonymously ‘dobbed in’ by a few people for supposedly doing dodgy things, none of which were true. Unfortunately, if you throw enough mud, some sticks. It doesn’t take Einstein to work out who was behind it.

Unfortunately many people would rather believe ‘the goss’ than the truth... the truth is just plain boring. With respect to them, I know I am just spitting into the wind. Guess I shall just have to wear that rather than let such an injustice go unchalleneged.


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## pinefamily (Mar 1, 2016)

Well said, BlueTongue1. I agree with your sentiments completely.
It did take a whole beer while I read it all though.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 1, 2016)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I am given to wonder if my questions will be answered. In my experience, where controversial statements are posted and responses or queries related to these posts are not acknowledged by the original poster, it is invariably the work of a troll. @richoman_3, please respond and demonstrate this is not the case.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Raises question : how can the hobby improve this ?,

how many keepers would walk away from a deal on an animal (especially a hard to get one) if they have doubts about it's origins .?... it's just too easy for people to claim it's legitimately collected , or captive breed and we have no way of cheaking against what is on the books (on their licence). 

Is it even possible to give the govt agency who keeps all these records a call and ask them the questions required ?

What happens if you buy an animal in good faith and it turns out it's been taken from the wild illegally ?


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## Bluetongue1 (Mar 1, 2016)

@pinefamily. Believe me when I tell you, that’s short version. Lol. It is one of those issues that really does ‘get under my skin’ as I have personal friends on the receiving end of this crap.

@kingofnobbys. In WA there are four different licences – keeper, dealer, taker and farmer. Only a dealer can sell or exchange animals from one person to another. Dealers have to specify the licence from which the animal is being removed and the licence to which it is being added. New animals can come into the hobby through breeding or wild taking, both of which have to be recorded immediately on the respective licence records, which are then submitted in annual returns. There are obviously still some potential loop holes but the authorities here do what they can to monitor them. For example, a BHP breeding success was seen as questionable and DNA testing of parents and offspring revealed that the claimed offspring were actually wild collected hatchlings. 

To reduce the collecting of WA animals for interstate consumers, the Department here has introduced a 5 year moratorium on export of animals once gazetted as legal to keep here. The rationale is that WA keepers will have the opportunity to obtain these animals at uninflated prices (due to no interstate competition) and it will give them the opportunity to breed them up for sale once the interstate demand does take effect. 

“What happens if you buy an animal in good faith and it turns out it's been taken from the wild illegally?” Depends on the Department and the circumstances and I will add, from what i have seen and heard, that justice is not always served in such circumstances. If you have followed the correct procedures in WA, this is extremely unlikely to happen and the onus would be on the dealer anyway, not the buyer. That aside, animals which have been illegally collected from the wild and are held without the appropriate licensing are confiscated, and if on the keeper’s list they are put up for public auction.


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## Evil_Birdy (Mar 19, 2016)

This is just sick! I'm appalled that people would do such things, or that anything like this goes on. I had no idea. How do we stop it? What do we do? I almost feel guilty for buying my first monitor not long ago. I will certainly be asking a lot more questions in the future before I ever buy another reptile off somebody. Keeping reptiles should not be seen as a way to make money, but rather as a passion that results as a love of them. That people would do this is disgraceful.


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## CrazyNut (Mar 19, 2016)

If you passed up every animal that you had doubts about was legitamately captive bred/legally w/c about the only thing we would keep is bearded dragons simply because there is no shore fire way to tell between legit and non legit animals esspeiaclly those that are uncommon and rare.


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## pinefamily (Mar 20, 2016)

CrazyNut said:


> If you passed up every animal that you had doubts about was legitamately captive bred/legally w/c about the only thing we would keep is bearded dragons simply because there is no shore fire way to tell between legit and non legit animals esspeiaclly those that are uncommon and rare.



You can be sure if you either know the breeder, or their reputation is good enough to be trusted. Otherwise you're right CrazyNut. When you see some of the ads on RDU, you have to wonder about them.
As I've said before on here, I've wanted a tristis orientalis for ages. I saw the odd ad here and there for them, 
but wasn't confident about them being what they were meant to be; too many undersized or juvenile tristis tristis are sold as orientalis. Then a local breeder of small monitors who I trust implicitly had a clutch up for sale, and that's when I got my monitor.


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