# New Pygmy Bearded Dragon Enclosure - Thoughts?



## SYNeR (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey all,

I just completed a new bearded dragon enclosure for my pygmy bearded dragons
by converting a display cabinet with glass doors into an enclosure. The inside of the enclosure measures 87cm x 42.5cm x 66cm. I've got one vent down on the left hand side, and on the upper right where the two bulbs are.

The bulb installed is a 160w Exo-Terra Sun Glo mercury vapor bulb. I thought this might be better for UVB given the height of the enclosure. The front ceramic light fitting (not showing in picture) sits in front of the Sun Glo and to the right.

My plan was to run the Sun Glo during the day (I've got it running now - 9:30pm in Newcastle, and it's about 34 degrees at the basking site where the rock on the right is), with the other ceramic fitting holding a ceramic heat emitter on a thermostat.

This way, if the temperature drops and the Sun Glo mercury vapor bulb is insufficient, the ceramic heat emitter will kick in. My main concern was that coming into the warmer months, and considering my room gets quite warm, that the Sun Glo bulb may cause the enclosure to heat up too much.

I guess my main question is -- what temperature is okay for the basking spot? In my previous enclosure, it was around 32-33 degrees. But reading around, I'm finding all sorts of different information.. Anywhere in the range of 30 up to 40 degrees.

I've also since removed the ramp (I didn't like the idea of them getting too close to that bulb, and falling off the wooden ledge).

The thermometer probe on the left (black) is sitting around 26 degrees, the middle one (white) is about 32 degrees. The thermostat probe is basically just in front of the largest rock at about the largest rock's height and is at 34 degrees.

I guess my best bet is to not put the dragon in there (she's there for the picture) and monitor the temps for a little while. If the mercury vapor bulb is going to be an issue, I may put it on a timer so it is on around 6am-10am and 4pm-8pm, that way it's avoiding the heat of the day and from 10am-4pm, the enclosure gets a chance to cool down or retain its heat from the ambient temperature.

Does anyone have any idea or thoughts? 



Cheers,

Mark


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 10, 2010)

I also forgot to mention to the left of the white probe, behind the panel is a small UV fitting with a 15 watt UV tube in it. I could also exchange this tube for a ReptiGlo 10.0 tube of the right size..


----------



## Bax155 (Oct 10, 2010)

I don't think that 160w heat globe will have any dramas getting to the desired temp, if anything maybe it will get to hot, I also live in Newcastle and in my 1200x600x600 beardie enclosure I run a 45w spot globe which has no trouble reaching the high 30's, my basking spot reads around the 37c mark most of the time, 32-34c around it and 22c on the cool side.


----------



## J-A-X (Oct 10, 2010)

pygmy's seem to be more sensitive to the cold, and brumate a lot quicker than their central and eastern cousins, i'd put the basking spot to 40+, just make sure they have cooler spots to go, anything under 35 and my pygmies want to sleep...


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 11, 2010)

Many thanks for the replies.
I'm thinking I'll either ramp up the ventilation, or get the 125w globe instead (although it's hard to know what temperature difference to expect when stepping down to 125w).
Either way, I'll be keeping a sharp eye on the enclosure and only running it morning and late afternoon for now.

Good to hear about the higher basking temperatures though. There's so much different information out there (and less for pygmy dragons) that is so different,
it's hard to know what to go off.


----------



## J-A-X (Oct 11, 2010)

i threw the 'book' out, mine dont seem to conform to what the book says, they are suppose to love crickets (small ones of course) but mine run in the opposite direction, even if i throw pinheads in there, its just been a mass of trial and error, and i dont know about other pygmy owners but mine aren't big eaters at all.
put one of the probes right on the rock where you expect her to sit, it should easily reach 38+, if not find a thick branch and put it under the lamp, not too close obviously, they aren't the brightest of animals and will run right off your ledge. so I would take it out and replace it with a branch that they need to dig their claws into, 

if you manage to get one hotspot to the right temp then put the thermostat on that so it cuts off if the probe closest to the basking spot reaches 45 so they dont cook,

remember they need a hot & cool end, not a hot & warm end. overheating will kill most things pretty quickly,


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 11, 2010)

Yep, mine don't conform to the book either. They're so temperamental.
It wasn't so much an issue last year when they were still young, but now they've matured a bit..

Mine are also really small eaters. Occassionallly they'll eat a cricket or two, maybe a few bites of salad, but that's about it.
I took her to the vet last Sunday who said it wasn't surprising she seems to be partially brumating (and not eating much at all) and the male has been buried in
sand for a few weeks now; especially given we're a month into Spring yet it's still quite cool.

I'm glad to hear that others have had similar experiences though. It's somewhat reassuring. I find my pygmy bearded dragons to be quite stressful.


----------



## J-A-X (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm still waiting for mine to wake up... thought there was hope last week, she moved to the front of the tank, stayed there a few hours and went back to bed, it was almost like,
Pfttt, not comin' out yet, still too cold :lol:


----------



## Tit4n (Oct 12, 2010)

Looking good, however to ensure healthy dragon which wont develop bone or digestion problems why not get UV 10.0 and mount it above the sunglo ? That way All of the enclosure will be evenly covered in UV rays?

Otherwise looking good 

It will only need to last you for 12 months or so anyways, as litle guy grows up enclosure will also need to follow


----------



## lloydy (Oct 12, 2010)

Tit4n said:


> Looking good, however to ensure healthy dragon which wont develop bone or digestion problems why not get UV 10.0 and mount it above the sunglo ? That way All of the enclosure will be evenly covered in UV rays?
> 
> Otherwise looking good
> 
> It will only need to last you for 12 months or so anyways, as litle guy grows up enclosure will also need to follow


 

The sunglo should produce enough UVB to prevent that.
To much can hurt the little fella aswell.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 13, 2010)

@jaxrtfm - yep, that sounds like my little girl. In her old enclosure, she would just sit in the corner all sleepy & dopey looking. Occasionally she would walk around a little and maybe eat a cricket or two, but that's about it. The male is still buried in the sand in the nesting box I made :\ .. I hope they come out of it soon, it's quite scary. I didn't realise pygmy dragons can be so temperamental. I went to the SOFAR meeting in Newcastle last night and the bearded dragons there seemed much more awake & alert.


I'm a little worried about the Sun Glo bulb. From what I've read, Exo-Terra recently changed the manufacturing process making it automated instead of manual labour. As such, I read there's been a dramatic drop in UVB output due to the new process.. I was thinking of getting a lower wattage MVB anyway due to the temperature the current bulb seems to get up to (I've got it on a timer from 6am-9am and 4pm-10pm at the moment.. I'm not really game to have it running in the middle of the day when at work).
When it starts at 6am, within the hour, it reaches 34 degrees at the basking spot.. So I can't imagine how
hot it would get it left on all day.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 13, 2010)

Or the other option I guess it to put in more ventilation. I've noticed the whole in the top above where the MVB is mounted puts out quite a bit of heat.


----------



## J-A-X (Oct 13, 2010)

woohoo, My boy came out of his hidey hole yesterday, so there are signs of movement, i feel a bit better knowing they made it through winter, now to get them feeding again - sigh.

your heat should emulate what is happening naturally, i change my timer with the seasons. It comes on an hour after daybreak, and off about an hour before sunset, (that way there is a gradual lighting / dimming of the room before they get hit with full force sun. turning it off in the middle of the day is probably the opposite to what they would naturally get, and like i said, below 35 and mine want to sleep, aim for 40c on the basking spot. maybe when you are home all day, move one of the probes to the basking spot and leave it on for the day, it may well peak at 34c which is going to be too cold. 

I found these little guys were a lot harder to set up than my snakes. I think you are going to have to do a bit of trial and error on the weekend to get it set right.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 14, 2010)

Sweet! Yea, I definitely need to emulate sunlight better.. I've noticed particularly when running in the afternoon, the basking spot gets to around 38 degrees. I'll change the timer to run better hours and keep an eye on it over the weekend. Perhaps even take the dragon out (I don't like handling her when she is the way she is) into the old enclosure, and get another thermometer to record min/max temp at both ends of the enclosure over the week. Given that it's not too warm, but the basking spot is reaching high 30s.. So I'll definitely have to end up adding ventilation or going for a smaller wattage bulb for when it warms up.


----------



## Kirby (Oct 14, 2010)

having a thermostat on an MVB globe will cause it to fail prematurely.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't.. The MVB is just on a timer. There's also a ceramic heat emitter on a thermostat. So, when the MVB turns off and cools down, and subsequently when the temps drop, the thermostat will kick in and the ceramic heat emitter will push the heat back up a bit. I could almost have the thermostat set to around 32 degrees with +/- 5 degrees for the alarm.. That way the MVB will get up to high 30s - low 40s.. When it stops and cools down, the thermostat will use the ceramic heat emitter to keep the hot end at around 32 degrees... So, MVB on - high 30s, MVB off - around 32 degrees.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 17, 2010)

I can get the temp at the basking spot to 38 degrees easily with the MVB and thermostat/ceramic (occasionally) kicking in, but still having trouble getting the cool end below 30 degrees.. ergh.. This even after adding in more ventilation.

However, I've changed the daily routine to this rather complex setup:

6am - 10pm - 18" UVB 10.0 Fluoro is on
6am - 10pm - Thermostat controlling ceramic heat emitter is on (so overnight they get no heat)
10am - 3pm - Mercury Vapor Bulb is on.

Yes, I'm running 3 timers.. Oh well.


----------



## J-A-X (Oct 17, 2010)

Hiya, I was talking to one of the sponsers of this site yesterday, regarding temps for pygmies. his suggestion is 42c+ basking and no lower than 22 at the cool end. so i've lowered my light to give them more heat on the basking spot. my cool end is fine.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for the tip. I'm thinking I may try out one of the Oz Bright Heat & Light 100w MVB globes. Despite my best efforts, I can't get the cool end below 29 degrees using the current Solar Glo 160w MVB.

Although, I'm not sure the 100w globe would help.. I was thinking I could use it and move the basking site closer to the globe. However, I'm not sure this will help much because eventually the whole enclosure will heat up again anyway?

I could go for a lower wattage spot light / basking bulb, but I'm keen on using the MVB because of the UVB output. Pretty sure my dragons could use more MVB, and from quite a few posts I've read, it seems people's dragons pick up once they install an MVB.. Given how temperamental pygmy bearded dragons are, MVBs seem like a good choice.

Kind of a bit annoying though the possibility of wasting another $50 or so on an MVB that still may be too hot.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for the tip. I'm thinking I may try out one of the Oz Bright Heat & Light 100w MVB globes. Despite my best efforts, I can't get the cool end below 29 degrees using the current Solar Glo 160w MVB. Although, I'm not sure the 100w globe would help.. I was thinking I could use it and move the basking site closer to the globe. However, I'm not sure this will help much because eventually the whole enclosure will heat up again anyway? I could go for a lower wattage spot light / basking bulb, but I'm keen on using the MVB because of the UVB output. Pretty sure my dragons could use more MVB, and from quite a few posts I've read, it seems people's dragons pick up once they install an MVB.. Given how temperamental pygmy bearded dragons are, MVBs seem like a good choice. Kind of a bit annoying though the possibility of wasting another $50 or so on an MVB that still may be too hot.


----------



## The_Dreaded_Pets (Oct 21, 2010)

more or larger vents on the cool side may help bring its temp down or maby even a small computer fan as an exhaust fan (use fly screen to cover it)


----------



## lloydy (Oct 22, 2010)

Im using the Oz Bright 100w at a distance of 30cm and getting a basking temp of 35c.

My tank size is 4x2x2.5f though lol


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 26, 2010)

Well, a bit of an update that I suppose is not too bad. I'm using the 100w Oz Bright mercury vapor bulb and combined with a ceramic heat emitter, I'm getting around 38-40 degrees at the basking spot, approximately 30cm from the bulb. They seem to like it. I ended up digging the boy dragon's head out of the sand (he was completely buried) and he decided to come out.

I've installed an Antec TriCool 120mm fan at the cool end. Although it seems to work better blowing air into the tank than as an exhaust. Still, my cool end is still up around 30-31 degrees. The other option (besides installing an additional fan) I'm thinking is some kind of canopy over the cool end to shade it, as it seems the light from the MVB is what's causing the cool end to warm up a little..

I'm just worried the cool end is too warm. Although, at 10pm all my heating/lighting switches off..


----------



## The_Dreaded_Pets (Oct 26, 2010)

is the fan installed the right way when i used to build computers the fans you install have an arrow pointing in the dirrection that it pushes the air into you could install a 2nd fan or maby a bigger fan + more vents ect i cant think of many more options sorry i havnt started building my bug enclosure myself yet due to my car dieing so im quite interested in how you go.

mine will be 4ftLx2ftHx20"W malamine with glass front however im looking at puting a 2ft shelf 3ocm high offset from the middle of the enclosure and is almost as wide as wide as the enclosure for basking which will create shade underneath the shelf??? also wondering what kind of ventage to add to the cool end


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 26, 2010)

The fan didn't have an arrow on it, but I tested it before wiring it up.. This fan only pushes 79cfm, and it's installed behind an aluminium vent (from Bunnings). I've just ordered a Scythe fan, runs at 110cfm so should work a bit better.. As long as the noise isn't too bad :\

And yea, I tested the shelf idea yesterday. It seemed to work. I just need to come up with a more permanent solution.


----------



## SYNeR (Oct 26, 2010)

The basic is to make a canopy / cover. Hopefully that way, with the fan running, it will create a little pocket of cool air. I tried without the metal vent last night (so fan was directly blowing into the enclosure), but it didn't seem to make much if any difference.


----------

