# Would a uniform, nationwide licensing system be beneficial?



## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Yes or No ONLY
This is not a debate.


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Standardization is only good if done correctly. It would make paperwork easier however I think they would go over the top with rules & regulations so they feel important.

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Revell13 said:


> Yes or No ONLY
> This is not a debate.


If this isn't a debate what do you expect to to gain from this thread?


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> If this isn't a debate what do you expect to to gain from this thread?



An idea.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

If it was uniform we would end up with some crazy system somewhere in-between WA's strictness and NSW's uselessness


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

That is neither a yes or a no, *your argument is invalid*


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## Rob (Sep 10, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> Standardization is only good if done correctly. It would make paperwork easier however I think they would go over the top with rules & regulations so they feel important.



This, and for that reason I will not be voting. IMO, it isn't as simple as a Yes/No answer.

For example, Revell, what if it was decided to go with the current WA model. Would you still want uniform laws ?


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> An idea.


Wouldn't the underpinning reasons for someone's decision help to get an understanding as to their opinion


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## junglepython2 (Sep 10, 2012)

GeckoJosh said:


> If it was uniform we would end up with some crazy system somewhere between WA's strictness and NSW's uselessness




Hahahahaha and that's if we are lucky!


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorry but this debate got serious when the BOLD got used lol


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Please guys, all I want are the poll results, details can be talked about in another thread, I just want to get an idea of what the general reptile keepers think would be beneficial. Please don't get this thread stopped because of arguing.


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## GeckoJosh (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> That is neither a yes or a no, *your argument is invalid*



Now your just being silly


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## Red-Ink (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> An idea.



Can't be an idea if there's no debate... if it's just a yes or no answer then that's just a choice.


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorry, I was trying to be funny


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

You can't have a simple yes or no vote on a topic such as this. I would only support it of it was beneficial to the the hobby, now as reptile keepers we all know government department couldn't care less about us do I don't like our chances.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

How would a nation wide system work when WA doesnt allow python imports and Tassie doesnt allow anything in? It would never work...........


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

See the amazing thing about change, especially when your the one bringing it, is that you get to have real input into the direction of that change, that is as far as I am going on the issue. Please don't bait me into an argument, I'm terrible at online arguing and I'll just get myself into trouble, all I'm after are the results.


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## Red-Ink (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> See the amazing thing about change, especially when your the one bringing it, is that you get to have real input into the direction of that change, that is as far as I am going on the issue. Please don't bait me into an argument, I'm terrible at online arguing and I'll just get myself into trouble, all I'm after are the results.



But we have no input in it's direction... since it being just a choice between yes or no and all


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh I will add, I'm not talking about changing the state and territory rules and regulations, they can stay the same for the moment, I'm only talking about the licensing at the moment, so every reptile keeper in the country gets their license from National Parks and Wildlife Service, instead of different state authorities.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

I dont uderstand the point of this poll. It's clear you dont have much of an understanding of how the different states have their own governing bodies and as such dont want a bar of what happens in the rest of Australia.


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## Pinoy (Sep 10, 2012)

If the laws were uniform to NSW, YES

If the laws were uniform to WA or Tas, NO

You can't really ask such a broad question and expect a yes or no answer.

If you want a specific answer, you should ask a specific question.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 10, 2012)

I voted no. While I sympathise with Tassie and WA for their restrictions, why do they have those restrictions? Are they afraid of "weeds" wiping out their natives if they were to to escape into the wild? And aren't some species not allowed into Victoria as well? I have read somewhere, that while our snakes are Australian Natives, the likes of a jungle python can become a pest in another state, and if it were to thrive stronger than the locals it could endanger their survival. You can't even send plants to TAssie or WA. So perhaps, a nation-wide licensing system won't work - at least you might want to find out why these places have the restrictions they do, before giving a yes or no answer to this question.


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## Wally (Sep 10, 2012)

Delusions of grandeur. You won't be changing anything Revell13.


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm not asking about changing the laws or rules or regulations or anything like that. All I'm asking is wether a centralised LICENSING body would be beneficial, to have the NPWS look after all our licenses and details, but let the states keep their own rules and regulations, I'm really talking baby steps here guys, really really small amounts of change.


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## Pilbarensis (Sep 10, 2012)

I just want to add my view into this topic and despite this being a yes or no topic I think other people should as well. This is a very important and controversial topic to hundreds of people across Australia and is worthy of a debate. 

My belief though is that if this is done correctly and the system is put in place by intelligent people who understand not only Australia's biodiversity and ecosystems but also the views and opinions of native animal keepers across Australia it could be constructed in a way that not only allows us to keep a range of species (Would very much appreciate some more Varanids!) as well as breed them, but also has a well-thought out and understandable permit system so people with adequate knowledge and experience can collect species from the wild and introduce them into captivity. 

Not only would a system such as this promote the keeping and breeding of native wildlife in Australia but it would also increase captive population levels of various species faced with habitat loss and an array of other dangers.This would have an impact on hundreds of people across the country and could well be the saviour to many different native species unique to our land.

However, this would only work if the people who design the system are intelligent and experienced, and preferably, are actually part of the community. Otherwise this could very well end up like the WA system.

Cheers, Scotty

EDIT: Also it would be done in such a way that it does not effect native species in the wild!


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

mysnakesau said:


> I voted no. While I sympathise with Tassie and WA for their restrictions, why do they have those restrictions? Are they afraid of "weeds" wiping out their natives if they were to to escape into the wild? And aren't some species not allowed into Victoria as well? I have read somewhere, that while our snakes are Australian Natives, the likes of a jungle python can become a pest in another state, and if it were to thrive stronger than the locals it could endanger their survival. You can't even send plants to TAssie or WA. So perhaps, a nation-wide licensing system won't work - at least you might want to find out why these places have the restrictions they do, before giving a yes or no answer to this question.



Exactly. You cant treat all states the same. They arent the same and hopefully never will be. I'm glad that in WA I dont see starlings, sparrows, indian myners and a heap of other introduced species of birds and animals that plague the eastern states. WA is trying to keep anything that isnt native to WA out. I support that idea, however I would like more WA native reptiles on our keepers list.


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Baby steps are all well and good but there is a difference between baby steps and stumbling around in the dark. Sorry but you have no power over creating a different system, not only that but a poll on APS doesn't achieve anything either.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

I think a national herpetological society would be a good thing though. Something that has the countries top experts and is used to recomend keeping conditions and animals that can be kept as pets.


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## Red-Ink (Sep 10, 2012)

Happy with the Mexican system despite the exorbitant price... just wish for a few more species on the list really


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Gah, I'll say it again, I'm not looking to change individual state policies and rules, I'm only seeing if people want a centralised licensing system.


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## whatmeworry (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorry if I've misinterpreted something, but its coming across as though you're trying to revolutionise the legalities around owning reptiles, regardless of whether anyone else:

a) agrees with you
b) wants it


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## Wally (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Gah, I'll say it again, I'm not looking to change individual state policies and rules, I'm only seeing if people want a centralised licensing system.



No! I do not want some dick in Canberra telling me what I can and can't do. We get enough of that already.


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## Elapidae1 (Sep 10, 2012)

I think nationwide brothel licensing would be a massive leap in tidying up the sex industry.
Who agrees? Y/N answers only please.


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

whatmeworry said:


> Sorry if I've misinterpreted something, but its coming across as though you're trying to revolutionise the legalities around owning reptiles, regardless of whether anyone else:
> 
> a) agrees with you
> b) wants it



Yes, you have quite missed the whole point. I'm not trying to revolutionise anything, or change any rules or regulations, all I'm after are peoples yes or no thoughts on wether it would be beneficial or not for NPWS to hold all the licensing details.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

While we are at it lets get a nation wide Electrical system too. I hate having to change my license in each state.


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## mje772003 (Sep 10, 2012)

I said yes if the system was based on QLD or NT Laws


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Wally76 said:


> No! I do not want some dick in Canberra telling me what I can and can't do. We get enough of that already.



Not rules mate, just the guy you pay your license fee's to. Its no real change tbh, just the letterhead.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 10, 2012)

Yeah would be great.Let me know when you get it sorted.By the end of the year would be good.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Yes, you have quite missed the whole point. I'm not trying to revolutionise anything, or change any rules or regulations, all I'm after are peoples yes or no thoughts on wether it would be beneficial or not for NPWS to hold all the licensing details.



NPWS is only found in NSW. Duh!!!


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## mysnakesau (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> ......to have the NPWS look after all our licenses and details, but let the states keep their own rules and regulations, I'm really talking baby steps here guys, really really small amounts of change.



They do already, don't they? Across the country in every state you need a license. And each state does have their own rules and regulations. Some states allow capture of common species from the wild, others don't. ANd as I already mentioned, some states have restrictions on species that are allowed inside the border To me, sounds like the system is already in place. I thought you were asking about one set of rules right across Australia. I don't usually follow the political threads but to me, I can't see how one set of rules across the country can work while each state has their own wildife and conservation issues. They need to protect our natives, but their own local natives will take priority.


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Not rules mate, just the guy you pay your license fee's to. Its no real change tbh, just the letterhead.


What's the point in changing the letterhead unless it achieves something of benefit. Government departments already change names too often.

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Once again a useless/pointless poll on APS, who would have thought it.


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## Wally (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Not rules mate, just the guy you pay your license fee's to. Its no real change tbh, just the letterhead.



So what your asking is that states are expected to give up a guaranteed revenue stream to a national body while the states fund and do all the heavy lifting with licence compliance. Your not a member of the Greens by any chance?


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

No, sadly each state pays its fees to the states own licensing system, I'm just trying to find out if people would prefer the amalgamation of where the fees get paid, not change the rules or anything else.


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell, forgive me for assuming, but....you wouldn't happen to be a uni student would you?


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## junglepython2 (Sep 10, 2012)

How can you have a national body dealing with licenses that are totally different state to state. Only way it would work is if there were uniform rules and regs. I don't think you have really thought this through at all.


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## Pilbarensis (Sep 10, 2012)

@ Revell13: That's a bit pointless. Who cares about the fees, its all about the animals mate!


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell are you 13?


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## Elapidae1 (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> No, sadly each state pays its fees to the states own licensing system, I'm just trying to find out if people would prefer the amalgamation of where the fees get paid, not change the rules or anything else.



I'd rather not pay at all, but if I'm forced I'd rather keep the money in WA on the off chance it would be used on environmental projects within my own state.


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## Pinoy (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Not rules mate, just the guy you pay your license fee's to. Its no real change tbh, just the letterhead.



Ah, I misunderstood too. When you put it that way, NO, definitely NO.

Why? Because the current ones struggle with what they do now and only manage each state, imagine how much they'd struggle trying to collaborate with each other lol.


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## longqi (Sep 10, 2012)

reptile keeping rates about zero on any governments priority list
to attempt to centralise this may easily result in very bad news for reptile keepers
imagine if someone who hates snakes and thinks reptile owners are loonies was involved in the decision making??

we may end up with worse laws than WA


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## Wally (Sep 10, 2012)

saximus said:


> Yeah that would be awesome. Then the governing bodies would have actual professionals with actual experience to base their new regulations and rules on and not just make up stuff that goes against everything the pros tell them. Oh wait...



Yeah exactly. How is that code of practice coming along?


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## FAY (Sep 10, 2012)

Keiran, I personally feel that the arguments for yes and the arguments for no should be discussed first BEFORE anyone can even say YES or NO. Valid points would have to be brought up.
I personally reckon these departments will all tell us to go jump and we will have Tasmania's laws..


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## Revell13 (Sep 10, 2012)

Fine, damn you all to hell, if your all to insular and OLD or should I say ancient, hell, archaic would be a better term for the short sightedness I'm running into in this poll. Times are changing old men, the government is no longer our enemy, we have our licenses, varied state to state as they are at the moment, but we are legally allowed to keep some reptiles. We are no longer compared to drug dealers or crazies, just pet keepers. If you want to keep yourselves in the dark ages, hide from governments, hide from change, however small, so be it. Keep your insular "no one else understands me" society, but don't mind me while I go off and try to make changes, however small, to try and benefit my hobby, my passion.


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## Pilbarensis (Sep 10, 2012)

Mate, we all love the hobby and for a lot of people out there, including me, it is a passion and a very big part of our lives. However paying the fees is such a small part of all this and there are so many other, far more important things worth changing way before this. I don't mind giving out around $60 a year to keep working with such awesome species.


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## Pinoy (Sep 10, 2012)

Do you really think with a uniform licensing body, the rules wouldn't change?

I know you say you're not talking about changing rules, but for all the states to be under control of one body, the rules would have to change.

And what does Longqi living in Bali have to do with his opinion? I'd dare say he has more of an idea of our system than most in this thread would, including myself.


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## Elapidae1 (Sep 10, 2012)

LOL, short sightedness. You introduced the blinkers by demanding simple answers.


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## Snotty (Sep 10, 2012)

I may be old, but at least I know Australia is a Federation, and to spell it out basically, the states are essentially seperate countries (formerly independent crown colonies) that decided to join together January 1, 1901 so only a few things such as defence and taxation can be done federally unless you tear up the Constitution.


Given the above it makes the whole poll thing meaningless.


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Fine, damn you all to hell, if your all to insular and OLD or should I say ancient, hell, archaic would be a better term for the short sightedness I'm running into in this poll. Times are changing old men, the government is no longer our enemy, we have our licenses, varied state to state as they are at the moment, but we are legally allowed to keep some reptiles. We are no longer compared to drug dealers or crazies, just pet keepers. If you want to keep yourselves in the dark ages, hide from governments, hide from change, however small, so be it. Keep your insular "no one else understands me" society, but don't mind me while I go off and try to make changes, however small, to try and benefit my hobby, my passion.


How long have you been keeping reptiles?


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## Ramsayi (Sep 10, 2012)

Seems the lunatics want to take over the asylum.


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Sep 10, 2012)

Hahaha you're a uni student aye revell?


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## Red-Ink (Sep 10, 2012)

Ramsayi said:


> Seems the lunatics want to take over the asylum.



They're already in governance


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## Pinoy (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> Fine, damn you all to hell, if your all to insular and OLD or should I say ancient, hell, archaic would be a better term for the short sightedness I'm running into in this poll. Times are changing old men, the government is no longer our enemy, we have our licenses, varied state to state as they are at the moment, but we are legally allowed to keep some reptiles. We are no longer compared to drug dealers or crazies, just pet keepers. If you want to keep yourselves in the dark ages, hide from governments, hide from change, however small, so be it. Keep your insular "no one else understands me" society, but don't mind me while I go off and try to make changes, however small, to try and benefit my hobby, my passion.


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## Ramsayi (Sep 10, 2012)

If it wasn't for the ancient,archaic,short sighted keepers who have been in the hobby since pre licensing days you wouldn't be allowed to keep reptiles legally today.You also wouldn't have all the info keepers have at their finger tips like you have.Your juvenile outburst just illustrates just how naive you really are.


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## Snowman (Sep 10, 2012)

Revell13 said:


> /Sigh, getting sick of trying to keep this thread on track, no, I'm 24. Where are you going with that question? Oh, can someone else tell old Snowman up there that yes, the NPWS do actually "exist" in NSW, QLD, Vic, Tas, NT, they just don't currently control the licensing.



Do me a favour and send me the links to the Victorian NPWS web site, the QLD NPWS web site, Tas NPWS site, NT NPWS web site. Even a few office numbers would be good.... I still cant find anything on them. Just NSW NPWS....


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## longqi (Sep 10, 2012)

there is no use arguing over something as minor as this
Although the animal laws in Aus may be archaic in some respects, they have helped tremendously in preserving our reptiles
people from Tas and WA have a much worse time than anyone else but several groups are fighting for changes there

Look at things like the threats to wildlife, including reptiles, and fight on those fronts
Feral animals, environmental/habitat destruction and things like that are far more important


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## No-two (Sep 10, 2012)

Snowman said:


> Do me a favour and send me the links to the Victorian NPWS web site, the QLD NPWS web site, Tas NPWS site, NT NPWS web site. Even a few office numbers would be good.... I still cant find anything on them. Just NSW NPWS....



They don't exist.


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## Colin (Sep 18, 2012)

abnrmal91 said:


> How long have you been keeping reptiles?



I think he was a member here since may 2012 

"Hi guys, My name is Kieran, I'm from Wollongong and I am currently keeping 4 Eastern Water Dragons in my main terrarium and a family of garden skinks on my desk "


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