# Salamander ID?



## crail4 (Aug 7, 2011)

I am pretty sure this is a morphed Ambystoma Mexicanum (Axolotl) but im not sure.


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## dihsmaj (Aug 7, 2011)

Yes, it is. Where was this?


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 7, 2011)

Looks like a morphed Axolotl to me.
Just a side note, the only way to get Axolotls to morph is by using a chemical process and reducing water levels.
While some morph into "Salamanders" the majority of them die a painful death, for this reason I do not support the trade and I urge people to think about it before purchasing them.

Cheers Josh


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## dihsmaj (Aug 7, 2011)

Not reducing water levels..
It's all to do with hormones, which hardly ever succeeds and when it does, it drastically reduces the _Ambystoma_'s life. THEY AREN'T MEANT TO MORPH.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 7, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> Not reducing water levels..
> It's all to do with hormones, which hardly ever succeeds and when it does, it drastically reduces the _Ambystoma_'s life. THEY AREN'T MEANT TO MORPH.


Yes while they use chemicals which stimulate hormones forcing it into morphing, they also reduce the water level as it helps encourage the process


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## GeckPhotographer (Aug 7, 2011)

> Not reducing water levels..
> It's all to do with hormones, which hardly ever succeeds and when it does, it drastically reduces the _Ambystoma_'s life. THEY AREN'T MEANT TO MORPH.



Ahhh but reducing the water levels can cause the axolotl to produce the right hormones. While they really aren't meant to morph it is sort of an inbuilt mechanism so that if water levels were to drastically drop maybe a small percentage of a large population could survive and thus continue the population when water levels rose again.


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## dihsmaj (Aug 7, 2011)

Ah okay then.


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## crail4 (Aug 7, 2011)

well i might purchase it for $80 the guy has had it for some time now and apparently it feeds perfectly. I've kept Axolotls and Firebellied salamanders before so this should be easy enough to keep


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 7, 2011)

crail4 said:


> well i might purchase it for $80 the guy has had it for some time now and apparently it feeds perfectly. I've kept Axolotls and Firebellied salamanders before so this should be easy enough to keep


Where did you get the Firebellys from?>


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## Australis (Aug 7, 2011)

I saw some of these in a shop recently with the general "salamander" label.
Then looking into it a bit more it seems they don't live very long after being morphed.


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## pdsn99 (Aug 7, 2011)

Goldmember said:


> Yes while they use chemicals which stimulate hormones forcing it into morphing, they also reduce the water level as it helps encourage the process



I think they do it with iodine (or iodide)????

And yes a lot die because of it


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## GeckPhotographer (Aug 7, 2011)

See I wonder why they do not do is as a straight out addition of thyroxine. If anyone could explain to me why I would be pleased.


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## Dannyboi (Aug 7, 2011)

They use iodine to get the thyroid gland to make thyroxine using thyroxine would obviously work but I have no idea if you can get it without a prescription. Using Iodine is rather tricky and not many people can get the levels correct. Honestly I can understand why they do it considering the massive price tag difference and the appeal of a salamander. I have read that they only live about 5 years after morphing and that Albinos have a higher risk of dying when going through the metamorphosis.


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## K3nny (Aug 7, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Honestly I can understand why they do it considering the massive price tag difference and the appeal of a salamander. I have read that they only live about 5 years after morphing and that Albinos have a higher risk of dying when going through the metamorphosis.



i'd imagine the lack of pigment makes it more vulnerable to the elements, especially UV?

personally would prefer to get an animal that has a good 10-20 years on its lifespan rather than one thats knocking on death's door, but to each their own i guess (not taking a shot at ya, just my personal opinion)



Goldmember said:


> Where did you get the Firebellys from?



i too am curious on this, one of my favorite amphibians have to say
but i presume the op meant newts? as in the totally aquatic salamander-esque amphibian?


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## Bluetongue1 (Aug 8, 2011)

Iodine is an essential component of Thyroxine and Triiodothyronine, the two hormones produced by the thyroid gland that induce metamorphosis in amphibians. Thyroxine is the major one and can be obtained from a vet. Production of these hormones with amphibians that have a prolonged larval stage, can be triggered by increasing concentration of solutes in water and increased water temperature (indicating the water body is evaporating). Alternatively, addition of iodine to the water can stimulate the production of the required hormones. I do not know what level of iodine would be required but bear in mind that iodine solution has long been used as an antiseptic / disinfectant. For example, Betadine, one of the most effective antiseptic lotions available, is a mixture of potassium permanganate and iodine. At any significant concentration it is certainly going to make for an unpleasant environment to live in.

All axolotls have the ability to morph. These animals are a larval salamander that has developed to ability to become sexually mature and reproduce in the larval stage. Where the conditions do not require it there is no need to metamorphose at all and so they live out their entire lives in the larval form. The biological term for this is NEOTONY. You may see them described as a “neotonic salamanders”. 

Occasionally animals spontaneously go through metamorphosis. It is thought this might be under genetic control. Other animals show a definite resistance to want to metamorphosis but will eventually do so following exposure to the required chemicals. It sound to me like natural genetic variation within the population.

Larva that attain full size before metamorphosing have difficulty supporting their body weight after metamorphosis. This may contribute to the general belief it shortens their life span. Healthy metamorphosed individuals should live anywhere between 5 and 10 years if properly looked after.



GeckPhotographer said:


> See I wonder why they do not do is as a straight out addition of thyroxine. If anyone could explain to me why I would be pleased.


 
Iodine is readily available and cheap. Thyroxine is expensive and only available from a vet (for most people).

Blue


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## crail4 (Aug 8, 2011)

sorry i didnt get the firebellies other here i had them when i lived in Enhland

You do know your chemicals don't you another way that people induce metamorphosis in Axolotl's is to lower the water levels and clean the tank out less this makes the animal want to metamorph to suit its environment. This way is risky but if you do it right there should be no problems wants the animal has morphed.


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## Inkage (Aug 10, 2011)

Most are fine if morphed at the right stage, mine all feed well ect ,at around 5 years they will tend to slow up and become rather slugish still interested in food and such thoug htheir co ordination ect seems to decline


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## GeckPhotographer (Aug 11, 2011)

Great explanation Blue. Ok so buying thyroxine expensive, what kind of difficulties with the process of removing thyroxine from the thyroid gland of say a cow? I mean these are accessible from abbatoirs so if one could manually concentrate their own thyroxine from such a source....?? """"personally would prefer to get an animal that has a good 10-20 years on its lifespan rather than one thats knocking on death's door, but to each their own i guess (not taking a shot at ya, just my personal opinion)""""I don't disagree with you, it is nice to get to know animals. However I used to keep Antechinus (these have a lifespan of 1 yr and look like mice) and they were some of the greatest animals I kept, I really wish they could be kept on license, I would definitely get some.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 11, 2011)

LOl Gecks, concentrating your own from a cows thyroid gland?, your sounding a bit obsessed lol.
I think talking a vet into a prescription would be a bit easier


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## GeckPhotographer (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm like all those people who get into the hobby with money signs in their eyeballs.

I don't really want a salamander. :| but I might try this process one day for the fun of it, concentrating my own thyroxine and all.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 11, 2011)

GeckPhotographer said:


> I'm like all those people who get into the hobby with money signs in their eyeballs.
> 
> I don't really want a salamander. :| but I might try this process one day for the fun of it, concentrating my own thyroxine and all.




Hahahaa


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