# Dogs and anti venom



## missllama (Sep 19, 2009)

hey everyone

has anyone's dog ever been bitten by a ven on here?

i was wondering if anyone has paid to get there dogs treated by a vet and how much it costs around about and if it has been successful?

iv been considering moving over to kangaroo island the past few months, and i know the place that ill move into has regular rbbs and browns etc around and it was just a thought in my head if anything ever happend to my dog what the outcome could be

id pay anything to make sure he is ok, but whats the chances of a dog surviving a rbb bite?


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## whcasual79 (Sep 19, 2009)

chances are that u mite have to move to brisvegas


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## missllama (Sep 19, 2009)

whcasual79 said:


> chances are that u mite have to move to brisvegas


 
haha if theres room at urs why not


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## redbellybite (Sep 19, 2009)

Lana,it all depends on how quick you notice ...and you can apply the same first aid as you would do to yourself ..if you notice your dog getting bitten strap the area (except for muzzle of course)..and get straight to a vet ...otherwise a good sign is that he isnt acting his normal self ,bit dazed and confused bit glassy eye'd, or constantly licking his paws or legs etc ..Our old dog she had very white gums and 
was bleeding out of her nose and basically no time left to get her to a vet ..we rang the vet he said she didnt sound good at all and wouldnt make it ,the journey,as its like almost an hour away ..anyway we made her comfortable and said our goodbyes she passed away within the next 20mins ...but like I said she was most likely bitten a fair while before we noticed ..and she was 15 years old .


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## waruikazi (Sep 19, 2009)

When i was working in a vet clinic we would get a few dogs in from time to time with snake bite. As far as i remember the anti venom (they were all brown bites that i saw) was a bit over $700 but then there is the hospital stay etc etc. Another thing to think about is that the dogs will often have kidney and other health issues after the bite due to the AV. I have also seen one dog have what i was told was a relapse a month after it was bitten. It was showing all the signs of envenomation again although it hadn't been bitten.

Dogs are interesting in that they have a very low tolerance to snake bite, atleast in comparison to cats and people.


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## redbellybite (Sep 19, 2009)

Lana .you can actually make your dog so scared to go anywhere near a snake ..I have 4 dogs (after we lost the old girl) I didnt want to have to hopefully go through that again ,as I loved my dog dearly but I love snakes too ,so it was a very mixed feeling day that day ..anyway ..I went out and bought a few rubber snakes..and my oldest dog that was alive was 9 at the time,and my son got a new staffy cross pup..I made both these dogs so scared to go anywhere near these rubber snakes ..through total fear ..making them actually yelp and back away just by seeing it ..even now if I get my pythons outside .both these dogs look at the snakes and head to their own beds and stay put till I take them back inside...They are now 14 years old and 5 years old and have been living in a high EB and rbbs area and the odd taipan can be found around where I live ...
You only want your dog to let you know something is there by a growl not a lunge and constant carry on bark like most dogs do ..this is where things can go bad ..the staffy has encountered a few snakes ,mostly carpet but did have a rbbs down at the back shed ..he was standing well enough away from it but growling a distinct sound ,making us aware that something was there ..unfortunantly he does this with cane toads too, and if you knew the amount of toads we have here ..I am constantly getting up to take alook at what he is growling at ...But at least he has learnt not to bite or lunge at it and thats a good thing ..
My two fluffy maltese are mainly inside dogs ,They are scared of my snakes and the rubber ones ..but have never actually encountered a wild one ..Cats on the other hand cant be taught!


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## missllama (Sep 19, 2009)

waruikazi did most survive then? thats alot cheaper then i thought it would be to be honest i thought it might have been double or tripple that

rbb i think my dog is already scared of them because one day when i had one of the md's out he was wanting to check it out but then he freaked out when he stumbled over michaels belt on the floor 

but i know what he is like if a snake or something is sitting there long enough he will keep his distance want to check it out jump back a bit then just give up and go up to it lol, he did it with our shinglebacks he was scared of those and then ended up going and licking them lmao

i wonder if i can teach him to permenantly avoid them?

i never had a prob at my old place so it freaks me out thinking it could happen to him, only because at this place there are alot around

i dont even know if i will move yet but its just in the back of my head and i wanted to know more about anti venom and dogs anyway so thanks war for the info


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## waruikazi (Sep 19, 2009)

missllamathuen said:


> waruikazi did most survive then? thats alot cheaper then i thought it would be to be honest i thought it might have been double or tripple that
> 
> rbb i think my dog is already scared of them because one day when i had one of the md's out he was wanting to check it out but then he freaked out when he stumbled over michaels belt on the floor
> 
> ...



I didn't see a huge ammount of snakebite cases so i don't know what the survival rate actually is. But i don't remember any dogs dieing of snake bite. 

But it is very rare for dogs to come off second best to a snake hey. Dogs are very efficient hunters, 9 times out of 10 a dog will break a snakes back before it has a chance to strike.


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## Wild~Touch (Sep 19, 2009)

Treatment for snakebite in dogs can work out to well over $1,000.00 very quickly and unfortunately 

survival of your pet cannot be guaranteed.  You pay the bill for treatment whatever the outcome


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## missllama (Sep 19, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> I didn't see a huge ammount of snakebite cases so i don't know what the survival rate actually is. But i don't remember any dogs dieing of snake bite.
> 
> But it is very rare for dogs to come off second best to a snake hey. Dogs are very efficient hunters, 9 times out of 10 a dog will break a snakes back before it has a chance to strike.


 

mmmm i think my dog would be the 1 that doesnt lol 

when he gets one of his stuffed toys tho he really thrashes his head around side to side like hes trying to kill it, so i can picture him trying

he never touched the beardeds or shingles in the yard tho, apart from licking the shingles that time lol


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## missllama (Sep 19, 2009)

Bredlislave said:


> Treatment for snakebite in dogs can work out to well over $1,000.00 very quickly and unfortunately
> 
> survival of your pet cannot be guaranteed.  You pay the bill for treatment whatever the outcome


 
yea i understand that, coz at the end of the day there using the anti venom and they pay for that
id hope that my dog would be ok if that was to ever happen... touch wood


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## Miss B (Sep 19, 2009)

Very expensive.

The antivenene is around $800 per ampoule (varies between vets, obviously). In some cases, 1 ampoule is enough and in other cases the dog can require 2 or 3 ampoules. Then you've got hospitalisation fees, medications, blood tests etc. Of course, all of this depends on whether you actually get to your dog in time or not.

So yeah, in other words: very expensive. Pet insurance is your friend


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## orientalis (Sep 20, 2009)

*Blue Heeler Got Bitten*



missllamathuen said:


> hey everyone
> 
> has anyone's dog ever been bitten by a ven on here?
> Yes, one of my Heeler's was tagged on his manhood
> ...


 So chance's are even i'd say, depends on how quick you administer compression bandages and keeping them cool / calm and hydrated, also amount of venom and what type, would be some major factors in survival, in my opinion.

Don't let it be a deciding factor for you to move or not, cross that bridge when you need too, just think quick if it does.

cheers


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## Midol (Sep 21, 2009)

Redbellybite doesn't train snake aversion the same way I do (I don't cause such an intense fear in my dog, but ultimately as long as it isn't cruel to the dog then I've no opposition) but I totally recommend it.

You're looking at a minimum of $1000 to treat it. Spend the $1000 on a good trainer. I don't know your dog but if it has a relatively low prey drive level (desire to chase moving objects, not necessarily kill) then it'll be very easy and you could do it yourself though I'd still see a professional. I have very high drive dogs (A husky and a working GSD) and I use an e-collar on mine to teach things like this.


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## redbellybite (Sep 21, 2009)

Midol ...I say what ever works ...mine may not be the most political way of teaching ..but it certainly does the trick ...I never hit or hurt my dogs ...but did use voice demand and terrified them with the rubber snakes ...as well as frogs ..my dogs wont go near a frog ..as they cant tell the difference between the cane toad and the frog ..I made them scared of both ....but what we can agree on is that this is a need ,if you love your dogs and want a healthy outcome for both snakes and dogs ..you need to put the effort in ,what ever your training be ...


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## Just_Joshin (Sep 21, 2009)

Not much help i know but i'd be more concerned about Tiger Snakes rather than RBB. Tigers are very prevalent there aswell and a more likely to hold ground and tag something then a RBB black is....not to mention how much more potent their venom is. Unfortunately dogs being dogs and snakes being experts at staying undetected, there is not alot you can really do to avoid it other than aversion training like has been mentioned already.

Your best defence against avoiding your dog being bitten in an elapid rich area is LUCK.


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## Midol (Sep 21, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> Midol ...I say what ever works ...mine may not be the most political way of teaching ..but it certainly does the trick ...I never hit or hurt my dogs ...but did use voice demand and terrified them with the rubber snakes ...as well as frogs ..my dogs wont go near a frog ..as they cant tell the difference between the cane toad and the frog ..I made them scared of both ....but what we can agree on is that this is a need ,if you love your dogs and want a healthy outcome for both snakes and dogs ..you need to put the effort in ,what ever your training be ...



No no, I think what you do is fine. I have no problem with people creating a fear of snakes in their dogs. The only difference between what we do is your dogs show the fear, mine don't show the fear. They just think if they go near the snake they get a feeling of "discomfort"

Can I suggest you look into training the dogs to pick up on a snakes scent as well if you haven't. I haven't done this yet but will be doing it soon. 

Ohhh, and for others reading the BEST time for aversion training is in the first fear period (12-16 weeks) as most negative encounters within this period become permanent aversions.


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