# Diamond Python Owners



## MrBredli (Mar 26, 2006)

I remember reading a long time ago, that it was recommended Diamonds be fed sparingly from the moment they hatch, and that they should be reaching sexual maturity at around 5 years of age, as opposed to 3 years as with other Morelia species/sub-species. Lately i have noticed some 2-3 year olds for sale that are already up to 1.8m in length. Am i the only one who believes Diamonds should be given so much time to mature? Not having a go at anyone, just looking for peoples opinions.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 26, 2006)

I agree. My females mature at about 6 years old and the males at 4 years. I dont even want to think about the amount of food thats gone through a diamond to get it to 1.8m in 2-3 years. In some ways i consider that abuse. Diamonds aren't carpets or Olives or BHP's etc, that have rapid growth. Diamonds are a slow growing python and i believe they should be kept that way.


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## Moreliaman (Mar 26, 2006)

i thought you all went on size not age....?? just like Mr shine recommended!!


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## soulweaver (Mar 26, 2006)

IMO diamonds should be grown slowly, and yes i go on size for all carpets, not age.


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## zen (Mar 26, 2006)

Diamonds, if grown as nature intended are Australia's slowest growing python along with the _bredli_. 

I've read that females should have at least 5 years and males 3 years to reach maturity.
Like Serpenttongue wrote, ideally give females 6 years & males 4 years.

If power fed it reduces their life span, increases the chances of getting DPS and gives them pin heads that is obvious to educated buyers, who sensibly steer clear.

Keep them on the lean side, especially males. 

I reckon that you should definitely grow them slowly, even hatchlings shouldn't be overfed. I recommend that keepers always wait until their Diamonds have shat out their last meal before offering them the next meal. 
Ideally wait a day or two after they defecate because when they're hungry they're much more active. As exercise is beneficial to Diamonds these spells of increased activity are important by maintaining muscle tone .


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## Splitmore (Mar 26, 2006)

> If power fed it reduces their life span, increases the chances of getting DPS and gives them pin heads that is obvious to educated buyers, who sensibly steer clear.


zen,
where abouts has that been written about or proven? There is still so much speculation about DPS but still no conclusive cause has been found


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## purplefunkything (Mar 26, 2006)

how long does it take for a med/large rat to go through a diamonds system (if theyre healthy).... and an odd question: do they 'darken' if they are kept indoors as opposed to outdoors...


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## serpenttongue (Mar 26, 2006)

purplefunkything said:


> how long does it take for a med/large rat to go through a diamonds system (if theyre healthy).... and an odd question: do they 'darken' if they are kept indoors as opposed to outdoors...



It depends on the temps offered to the diamond. A rat will digest quicker if the diamond is indoors and heated day and night. But if it's outdoors where it has cold nights, or indoors with no night heating it would take longer. But at optimal temps i would say about 1 week for the rat to be completely digested and moved passed the stomach.

I have never found the colours of diamonds to ever change due to environment or captive conditions.


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## herptrader (Mar 26, 2006)

zen said:


> If power fed it reduces their life span, increases the chances of getting DPS and gives them pin heads that is obvious to educated buyers, who sensibly steer clear.



Have you got any data to support this assertion?

Most young reptiles seem to do well when they get some size on them relatively quickly. i see little evidence to suggest that diamond pythons are any different in this regard.


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## MrBredli (Mar 26, 2006)

Not sure whether or not there is any data, but you would be a fool to dismiss the possibilty. 

I personally believe DPS is caused by overfeeding and not allowing animals to cool properly over Winter. I have no evidence whatsoever to support my theory, but does anybody have any evidence to prove me wrong??


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## Sdaji (Mar 26, 2006)

I believe there are aliens hiding underneath Ayer's Rock. I also believe that mushrooms are highly intelligent, far beyond humans, they use this intelligence to produce technology which makes them look like mushrooms so that people will eat them (you see, they have a sick fetish about being eaten by people). Does anyone have evidence to prove me wrong?

Without evidence, all you have is speculation.


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## MrBredli (Mar 26, 2006)

Oh my god! These mushroom eating aliens will devour us all! Arrghh!!


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## Parko (Mar 26, 2006)

Pfft, that's all just common knowledge Sdaji, not speculation. And it's not a sick fetish, it's simply ''diverse'' sexuality.


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## MrBredli (Mar 26, 2006)

> Without evidence, all you have is speculation.



Not true, you also have conjecture, rumours, gossip, assumptions, theories, guesswork, thoughts and supposition


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## peterjohnson64 (Mar 26, 2006)

Sounds like a great thesis for your Phd Arj.


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## Sdaji (Mar 26, 2006)

No no, the mushrooms want to be eaten, they don't want to eat us. What kind of sick, crazy, repugnant excuse for a human are you? Oh, I see, you're one of them. Get back under your rock.

Wow Parko, you have a strange concept of sex! :shock:


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## Sdaji (Mar 26, 2006)

peterjohnson64 said:


> Sounds like a great thesis for your Phd Arj.



Haha, count me out of that one!


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## MrBredli (Mar 26, 2006)

It's a nice rock though, you gotta admit :wink: *Crawls back under*


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## peterjohnson64 (Mar 26, 2006)

Then do it on DPS. Although, who'd want to do a 9 year Phd?


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## Sdaji (Mar 26, 2006)

Certainly not me! I don't even like Diamond Carpets.


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## NicG (Mar 27, 2006)

Hi guys,

Getting back to the original topic, as I don't simply don't like mushrooms - highly intelligent or otherwise (although I do subscribe to a 'live and let live' philosophy when dealing with fungi) ...

I have a two year old female Diamond Python who is nearly 6 foot (1.8m) long who has never been overfed - that is, she has never been fed more than once every two weeks. And she is certainly not pin-headed. In fact, she is still less than 2 inches (5cm) thick at her widest.

Although, she hasn't been cooled yet and I imagine that that would have an influence on growth rate. She has only just graduated from small to medium rats. After reading the early posts in this thread, I'm wondering whether she's unusually long ... ?

My original plan was to cool her this winter and next, and then attempt to breed her the following spring, which would make her 3.5 to 4 years old. But maybe that is a year too early ... ?

Cheers,
Nic.


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## OuZo (Mar 27, 2006)

It's strange Nicg, we have 2 children's pythons from the same clutch that were fed if anything not enough while they were growing and they're bigger than any of the others in their clutch who were all fed more often than them. Apparently because we always gave them very large meals they actually burn less energy digesting one large meal less often than lots of small meals more often. So the snakes that were fed pinkies every week used more energy digesting them than our girls eating for eg weaners every 2-3 weeks so they grew slower. It's funny cos surely that should put an end to the whole power feeding theory...I'm not starting up an argument about who feeds how often and what's too much lol but if feeding large meals less often makes them grow faster then why bother feeding every few days to get them to breeding size quicker? Anyway lol, Nic have you always given her large meal sizes even though you've only fed every few weeks?


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## zulu (Mar 27, 2006)

*re Diamond*

Recharge a battery chicken, recycle


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## TrueBlue (Mar 27, 2006)

Diamonds dont have to be very big at all to breed, Ive bred diamonds a number of times at 3yrs of age,(mated at 2 1/2 and hatched at 3yrs), they only have to be around the 4 foot mark. All the young were healthy and no slugs were produced and the animals in question are still alive today and producing.

Ouzo,- thats because there is more food value in a fuzzy than a pinky, but you will find it is actally harder to digest.


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

Re: my earlier comments - i.e


> If power fed it reduces their life span, increases the chances of getting DPS and gives them pin heads that is obvious to educated buyers, who sensibly steer clear.


Splitmore wrote:-


> zen, where abouts has that been written about or proven? There is still so much speculation about DPS but still no conclusive cause has been found.


Also, Herptrader wrote:-


> Have you got any data to support this assertion?


 
I should have prefaced those statements with *I'm led to believe*, if power fed it reduces their life span and increases the chances of getting DPS.

I picked this up from reading widely on DPS on the internet (both at home and abroad) and through correspondence with overseas breeders. 

European & U.S breeders seem to have had a lot more problems with D.P.S than we have. 
*IMO* this is partly why Americans have crossed their Diamonds with Jungles, to eliminate D.P.S. It appears to have been successful in all but the highest percentage crosses.
Increasingly though, especially in Europe, breeders are returning to breeding the real thing again. 100% Diamonds are coming back into vogue and the guys there are successfully breeding without DPS. Some of them now believe that powerfeeding and constant warmth led to the problems they'd been having with D.P.S.
Previously they'd treated Diamonds the same as Carpets, growing them to full size and breeding within 2-3 years. But the animals weren't living past about 7 years of age.

So although it's not been scientifically proven as such, I consider it to be empirical evidence anyway. We'd certainly be wise to pay attention to their findings. 

As for abnormally rapid growth creating an unusually small head in proportion to the body i.e pin-headed, this is simply cause and effect. There's many cases of this occurring in captivity but never in the wild. Pin heads are a direct result of overfeeding and artificial heating. 
It'd be interesting to see how many pin-headed Diamonds live past 7 years. 
Does anyone out there have any long-lived pin heads?


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## Moreliaman (Mar 27, 2006)

Well I have proof that over feeding or "power feeding" as some might call it, can & will kill a snake, I’ve seen a female Bredli that was fed twice a week because the breeder wanted her up to a respectable breeding size as soon as he could, so that he could get a return on his £1200.00 that he paid for her. When I saw it 8 months later I couldn’t believe it was the same snake I’d sold him ! there was so much fat on it due to over feeding that the bulges of fat hung around the side of the snake up to the anal vent, I wish I’d taken a pic now, unfortunately the snake died about 2 months later, Post Mortem results revealed multiple organ failure, the PM concluded that the cause of organ failure was due to the massive strain placed on them ! In the following year the "breeder" ( obviously only interested in the revenue his reptiles generated ) lost a further 7 snakes with the same PM conclusions, unfortunately these later losses were royal morphs with an estimated value of £35,000.00 !
Dunno why, but he only feeds his snakes every 1-2 weeks now ! :lol: 
If I ever buy hatchlings from an unknown breeder I always ask the age of the parents & to see the parent stock & the conditions they are kept in, if for any reason im not happy, i.e. undersized parents, poor husbandry, over feeding or whatever ....my hard earned cash stays in my pocket, End of !


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks for that first hand wrap there Moreliaman.
Interesting and powerful evidence of what can happen if you powerfeed. 

Earlier you said,


> i thought you all went on size not age....?? just like Mr shine recommended!!



Where did the Prof write this?


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## Moreliaman (Mar 27, 2006)

i remember it being said/quoted by someone on here in a previous thread .
Although i don't have a picture of the thread so it might not be true in some eyes ! :wink: :lol:


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

Do you remember which thread or who said it? 
Just curious.

Oh yeah!  Pics or the thread didn't happen :lol:


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## herptrader (Mar 27, 2006)

In the appendix of his book "Australian Snakes".

I have been given permission to post the data from this appendix as a Care Sheet at the Herp Shop Web site. I have typed in all the data but need to get around to proof reading it before I post the care sheet.



zen said:


> Thanks for that first hand wrap there Moreliaman.
> Interesting and powerful evidence of what can happen if you powerfeed.
> 
> Earlier you said,
> ...


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Herptrader. 
Got a copy in front of me now. 

"The size at sexual maturity can be estimated from the average body lengths, because most species mature at about three-quarters of average body size." 'Australian Snakes: a natural history' by Richard Shine. 

...which in Diamond and Carpet pythons is "130 cm S-V for males and 151 cm S-V for females". 

But these averages are for all _Morelia spilota_ subspecies.


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

NicG said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a two year old female Diamond Python who is nearly 6 foot (1.8m) long who has never been overfed - that is, she has never been fed more than once every two weeks. And she is certainly not pin-headed. In fact, she is still less than 2 inches (5cm) thick at her widest.
> 
> ...



shes about the same length as my 5yr old girl. i was just wondering about the timings/sizes of feeds too


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

zen said:


> If power fed it reduces their life span, increases the chances of getting DPS and gives them pin heads that is obvious to educated buyers, who sensibly steer clear.
> 
> does anyone breed pinhead mushrooms :?:
> 
> maybe this can be the new phrase for overfed diamonds


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

PFT asked :-


> does anyone breed pinhead mushrooms?



Yes, I think they call them champignons. Seriously though, Geordie Torr was more specific in _Pythons of Australia: A Natural History _ in saying...

" In diamond pythons, both sexes mature at around 150 centimetres snout-vent length".

He also says more generally regarding pythons: 
"Sexual maturity is attained when pythons reach approximately 70 - 75 per cent of mean adult length....In general, it will take 18 - 24 months for large pythons and about a year for smaller species. As females are usually larger than males....they take longer to mature than males."


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## Moreliaman (Mar 27, 2006)

purplefunkything That pic isnt good enough, we need more proof !! (only kidding....just want to see a better pic, that looks like a cracking diamond there!!) :wink:


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

Shes a real sweety this is the only other decent pic ive got....which isnt that good either, must get my act together with some photos. Have been considering a male for her and missed out on RevDans male cause i stuffed around too much...oh well....


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## Moreliaman (Mar 27, 2006)

zen said:


> " In diamond pythons, both sexes mature at around 150 centimetres snout-vent length".
> He also says more generally regarding pythons:
> "Sexual maturity is attained when pythons reach approximately 70 - 75 per cent of mean adult length....In general, it will take 18 - 24 months for large pythons and about a year for smaller species.


 Atlast... someone's typed what Mr Shine actually quoted ! And he *HAS* quoted an approximate age ! & isnt going just by size.
The problem im noticing is that a few breeders power feed their snakes to get them to breeding size as soon as they possibly can.

Purple, thats a stunning diamond, much nicer than the pair i almost bought in hamm a few years ago, asking price was a little over $9000.00 for the pair !


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## FAY (Mar 27, 2006)

I have had people look at me weird as my 2 year old (now 4y.o) was not as big as they thought she should be......but I am happy to say that she is just the right size and beautiful as far as I am concerned.......looks like a gorgeous, not obese, shiny,sleek sub- adult, I hope she has a happy, long life and I feel that I have done the right thing by her and by the way she is living in an aviary as well!


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## zen (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Moreliaman, though I should point out that the approx. age at maturity quote was by Geordie Torr. The earlier quote at the top of this page was by Shine.

Prof Shine does give an age elsewhere though, in 
'Biology of _Morelia spilota_'- NSW NPWS.

"Observations on captive specimens suggest that this size is probably reached at *an age of about three to five years*..."

I'd say 3 years for males and 5 years for females, as females take considerably more time to mature, as previously quoted (Geordie Torr).


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

What is meant by powerfeeding??? Aren't Diamonds opportunist??? To me they would take food at a chance when it's available...but I still can't grasp what a powrfeed is..In the wild... is there anybody that's done the study for DPS or is this only something that occurs in captive bred??? I don't think there would be to many experiences to state what is fact. Like any animal if it's fed more than required they get obese, even humans, and they have some sort of failure so there is nothing obvious in that statement. Is DPS a genetic fault just like Foundering in horses? Do we know? I think not!!! It's easy to quote some one else's study but is it correct? Who knows!!! There is still to many questions as far as I'm concerned to take the chance at overfeeding any animal. Is this so called powerfeeding one of the causes for DPS??? I don't know about anybody else but my diamonds just don't eat if it ain't hungry. They're not over weight and they are fed regular, as in every 7 to 10 days unless coming into or in shed. I don't think my diamonds will die from DPS. If you want to feed sparingly, feed sparingly. The only thing you are doing is slowing growth which isn't really a bad thing sometimes, how much is too slow you ask?? Who knows.


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## OuZo (Mar 27, 2006)

How old and how big are your Diamonds if you don't mind me asking dee?

My Diamonds are never not hungry lol


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

Both around 3
Sorry Ouzo, what I was getting at was this powerfeeding thing. I don't understand what they mean by it, are they feeding every couple of days? when do they feed? How big is the food they feed? Mine want eat a day or 2 after a feed. 
Sorry about waffling on, was just doing a Sdaj.  :lol:


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## OuZo (Mar 27, 2006)

It's a bit iffy...depends on who you talk to lol. The difficulty is that it varies in everyone's situation and it's hard to draw the line exactly where normal (for want of a better word :shock feeding ends and power feeding begins. I understand it as feeding large meals very regularly...usually done in the first few years of life to get them to adult size quicker for breeding purposes. We try to feed most of our snakes fortnightly at the most as adults but as babies we still don't usually feed much more than once a week. It's just a precaution for us because I'd rather wait a bit longer for them to breed than risk having them die young. Plus I've seen some pics on here of a snake that died of fatty liver disease and it kinda scared the crap outta me lol. So maybe I'm too far on the under feeding side I dunno! Once again it depends who you ask! As far as I'm aware though there don't seem to be any consequences of growing them slowly so I like to take that option just in case


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## Liccy (Mar 27, 2006)

My diamond would have been 1 yr old last august.... so maybe 1 yr 7 months... and he is 1.5 metres (not including tail...) is that too big?? i dont over-feed him... maybe 1 medium rat every 2 weeks... (90 grams has been the biggest he has ever eaten) i normally wait until he has been restless in his cage for about a week... i think someone referred to it as "hunting" and i know he gets hungry... his whole attitude changes!

Is this ok? or should i be feeding him less?


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## junglemad (Mar 27, 2006)

Do you think this snake has been powerfed? 9 footer diamond female


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## OuZo (Mar 27, 2006)

Wow she doesn't look 9 foot in the pic! :shock: how do you tell by looking at a snake if it's been power fed? It doesn't really look fat if that's what you mean?


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

That's one fine looking snake Junglemad.


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## junglemad (Mar 27, 2006)

thanks Dee..it is nearing 9 feet. That pool fence is in 2 metre sections. She isn't fat and hopefully i should have more luck with her this yr after two unsuccessful attempts at breeding loans last season. i will put her with my 6 foot stud who bred with my other diamond unexpectedly and a 7 footer that won best diamond at sth coast herp society that i was lucky enough to buy. I reckon she will lay more than the 12 my littler female laid


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## tweety2 (Mar 27, 2006)

ok here is a good comparison. my mate across the road has 2 female diamond pythons that she has had since hatchies. they r now 3 years old, never been cooled down and get fed weekly on wotever and how much they want. her diamonds are both around the nine ft mark each and would weigh a good 5 - 6 kgs each. Now i brought a 7 year old male from roy pails back in january, he is also 9 ft long, i only give him 1 adult rat each week as well as a week old chicken once a month as a treat. my diamond has been cooled every year (something i will continue to do) and he weighs roughly 3 - 4kgs. imo, and only my opinion, from info i have found on the net about diamond pythons, hers r at a real risk of dps, but i cant get her to see this, which is a shame as both her diamonds are exeptional looking


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

hey junglemad....whats with the cricket bat? were u gunna take her out for a game


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## junglemad (Mar 27, 2006)

lol....she is getting so strong i might have to take her out with the bat

here is a yearling. no need to feed them too much...takes time to grow a nice diamond as was said by others before. This one was bred by Mike Donovan. I won it in a raffle on another site that no longer exists....hence her name "Rafaella"


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

That would have to be the worst pic I've seen for a while now, I thought I took bad shots. But I still get the gist of it :lol:


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

dee4 said:


> That would have to be the worst pic I've seen for a while now, I thought I took bad shots. But I still get the gist of it :lol:



Phew.....for a moment there I thought I'd had too much to drink


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## herptrader (Mar 27, 2006)

junglemad said:


> lol....she is getting so strong i might have to take her out with the bat
> 
> here is a yearling. no need to feed them too much...takes time to grow a nice diamond as was said by others before. This one was bred by Mike Donovan. I won it in a raffle on another site that no longer exists....hence her name "Rafaella"



Actually I was a bit worried that it might get of its enclosure by climbing through the bars. As it is she is already climbing along the top of her fence!


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

> Phew.....for a moment there I thought I'd had too much to drink


Have another, it might get better. :roll: 

Actually try an even dozen. :lol:


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## purplefunkything (Mar 27, 2006)

jolly good idea....u rock


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## junglemad (Mar 27, 2006)

hard to get them to sit still one handed...the ground is nicely in focus....back to camera school


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

:lol:


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## junglemad (Mar 27, 2006)

your bredli is nice by the way


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## aussiesnakelover (Mar 27, 2006)

on the risk of looking stupid which i think is a little to late 
what exactly is power feeding? anyone have a definition?
if it has already been covered in this thread can sum1 just point me in the right direction? page no. and poster
excuse my stupidity


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

> what exactly is power feeding? anyone have a definition?



Ouzo wrote:


> It's a bit iffy...depends on who you talk to lol. The difficulty is that it varies in everyone's situation and it's hard to draw the line exactly where normal (for want of a better word ) feeding ends and power feeding begins. I understand it as feeding large meals very regularly...usually done in the first few years of life to get them to adult size quicker for breeding purposes. We try to feed most of our snakes fortnightly at the most as adults but as babies we still don't usually feed much more than once a week. It's just a precaution for us because I'd rather wait a bit longer for them to breed than risk having them die young. Plus I've seen some pics on here of a snake that died of fatty liver disease and it kinda scared the crap outta me lol. So maybe I'm too far on the under feeding side I dunno! Once again it depends who you ask! As far as I'm aware though there don't seem to be any consequences of growing them slowly so I like to take that option just in case


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## dee4 (Mar 27, 2006)

And thanks back at ya Junglemad.


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## africancichlidau (Mar 27, 2006)

> It's strange Nicg, we have 2 children's pythons from the same clutch that were fed if anything not enough while they were growing and they're bigger than any of the others in their clutch who were all fed more often than them. Apparently because we always gave them very large meals they actually burn less energy digesting one large meal less often than lots of small meals more often. So the snakes that were fed pinkies every week used more energy digesting them than our girls eating for eg weaners every 2-3 weeks so they grew slower. It's funny cos surely that should put an end to the whole power feeding theory...I'm not starting up an argument about who feeds how often and what's too much lol but if feeding large meals less often makes them grow faster then why bother feeding every few days to get them to breeding size quicker? Anyway lol, Nic have you always given her large meal sizes even though you've only fed every few weeks?



This just makes you a SLOW power feeder


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## Moreliaman (Mar 28, 2006)

Ive come to the conclusion that some people on this site smoke too much !!


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## NicG (Mar 31, 2006)

To answer your question AfricanCichlidau, for the last year she has been fed one 'small' rat every fortnight or so. Obviously, she has graduated from a smallish-small rat in the beginning to a largish-small rat at the end. Only her last two feeds have been 'medium' rats - again on the smallish side.

Upon reexamination of her size, I would say that she's pretty close to 6 foot long now and about 1.5 inches in diameter at her widest. So judging from the minimum breeding sizes posted in this thread, I would say that she's on track to breed in 18 months at 3.5yo after being cooled twice ... unless anyone has any real objections ... ?

I do have another question now: does anyone have any tips on how best to measure a snake's length?

Cheers,
Nic


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## Haydz (Apr 7, 2006)

sale sale sale


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## Haydz (Apr 7, 2006)

i have a life of pain


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## newtosnakes (Apr 7, 2006)

Haydz - is there any real point to any of your posts?


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## shamous1 (Apr 7, 2006)

*One more*



MrBredli said:


> > Without evidence, all you have is speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, you also have conjecture, rumours, gossip, assumptions, theories, guesswork, thoughts and supposition



You forgot Inuendo


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## shamous1 (Apr 7, 2006)

We have a 3 year old male (6 foot) He eats a 175 gram rat. Defecates around 7-10 days later. He won't eat anything else for around 15-21 days.
We ave a 2 1/2 year old female (5 foot). I have'nt fed her yet as we have only just picked her up this week but it took her 5 days to defecate in the pillow case on the way back from Heathcote


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## shamous1 (Apr 7, 2006)

*Yes*



NicG said:


> I do have another question now: does anyone have any tips on how best to measure a snake's length?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nic



We put ours up on the kids Hills swing in the back yard. They are slightly bent but you may be out by 10 cm tops.


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## Tristis (Apr 15, 2006)

about feeding if the snake is hungry feed it its just that simple, in the bush the snake is going to eat what ever it can its instinct. if it was to come out of an egg and be a picky feeder it would get eaten by something else. if it comes out and eates every thing it can it will grow, the quicker it grows in the wild the better chance it has at serving. 1 rat a week should be fine.


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## shamous1 (Apr 15, 2006)

*Feeding*



Tristis said:


> about feeding if the snake is hungry feed it its just that simple, in the bush the snake is going to eat what ever it can its instinct. if it was to come out of an egg and be a picky feeder it would get eaten by something else. if it comes out and eates every thing it can it will grow, the quicker it grows in the wild the better chance it has at serving. 1 rat a week should be fine.



I don't know about anyone else but my 2 Diamonds refuse to eat a rat a week. The male will refuse anything under 2 1/2 weeks and always takes something at the 3 week mark.

The female will not take anything under 2 weeks.


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## hugsta (Apr 15, 2006)

Some ppl say male diamonds 'mature' at about 3 yrs. I have a 2yr old male diamond, around the 4ft mark that has already produced sperm plugs. So therefore IMO, is old enough and big enough to breed, if it's not, then why did it produce sperm plugs? As sperm plugs are produced by breeding age males to insert into the female after mating. So why should they be older before they can breed? Same with females, if they can breed at 3 yrs they will, if they are not ready, they won't. JMO and am also curious as to others opinions.


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## JunglePython (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the idea that a snake knows when it has had enough is a load of rubbish.

In the wild the snake might eat at every given opportunity however these opportunities are subject to the availability of prey items. There are not defrosted rats handed to them each week. This situation of the prey controlling the number of predators is very common. 

There may be a case or two of lucky snakes coming across unlimited food items but this would be an extreme case and certainly not the norm.


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## AntaresiaLady (Apr 15, 2006)

Does anyone have this kind of information on Stimsons pythons?


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## The Devil (Apr 15, 2006)

The is the first I've heard of DPS being caused by overfeeding, my thoughts are that it may be caused by keeping them too warm during the day and not cooling at night.
I've kept diamonds outside for some years, they get about 4 hours of filtered sunlight per day and freeze their bums off at night during winter.
It's always interesting to see them on a cold and wet day spending the day on one of the branches instead of in the dry hide box. Maybe just maybe they need and like the cold.


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## Craig2 (Apr 15, 2006)

my dimonds would eat every day if i let them they r always looking for a feed at leats this thred got better at the start there it was looking like a ray hoser paper and i do agree agree with nev about dimonds needing the cold as to my knowledge dps has not been observed in captive dimonds that live outside (as long as u r in the right area this is fine sorry if u r not )


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## hugsta (Apr 15, 2006)

I also agree with Nev, I think most ppl keep diamonds too hot. It is surprising what they will do when outside in an aviary. I have temped mine down to 8 deg C so far outside in winter and on a warm day they get to about 20 deg C max.


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## I.Like.Stuff (Apr 17, 2006)

I have 2 diamond hatchies, hatched in January, both about 55cms snout to tail. I am feeding them 1 fuzzy mouse every 7-9 days or so. They eat easily, 4-5mins tops to get it down and usually poo about 3 days later. I am a bit paranoid about over feeding them but I want them to grow up healthy and was wondering when i should up the size of their meal?


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## MrBredli (Apr 17, 2006)

Sorry if this has been mentioned already (i haven't viewed this thread for a while) but didn't Dr. Shine find that adult Diamonds often only eat 3-4 large meals (possums) per year?


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## nickvelez (Apr 18, 2006)

hugsta said:


> I also agree with Nev, I think most ppl keep diamonds too hot. It is surprising what they will do when outside in an aviary. I have temped mine down to 8 deg C so far outside in winter and on a warm day they get to about 20 deg C max.



you got me worried I may be cooking my diamonds. Bearing in mind we're in spring here i 've got my diamonds inside with a cool end at 20C and a hot spot at 30C. both snakes spend a lot of time on their hot spots. I guess I should turn off the heat at night altogether. What temp ranges are you guys exposing your animals to? right now our average outside temps here are 21-26C daytime and 13-15C at night. If the diamonds have been seen mating is it not a good idea to provide a constant heat source for the female at least?


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## Rennie (Apr 18, 2006)

Although they live in areas that get down to 0c and up to 45c, they find spots like hollow logs and holes in the ground with much moremoderate temps, so what you're doing sounds alright to me. Although I'm far from being an expert.


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## hugsta (Apr 18, 2006)

I normally have my diamonds hot end at a max of 28 dge c. They do exceptioanlly well if you can house them outside.


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