# our new diamond python



## python blue (Dec 30, 2006)

hi to day me and mitchdiamond bought a diamond python and we need to get it sexed its 18months old it was $600


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## Hetty (Dec 30, 2006)

Is he/she an integrade?


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## mitchdiamond (Dec 30, 2006)

Yeah its 75% Diamond and a bit coastel.


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## Hetty (Dec 30, 2006)

The coastal shows through quite a lot. Are hybrids like that worth $600?


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## mitchdiamond (Dec 30, 2006)

It came with the enclosure and everything so it was a good buy.Even got it to eat as soon as we got it in the enlosure.


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## python blue (Dec 30, 2006)

its quite a good snake though but if you breed it with a pure diamond will the hatchies be pure diamond again


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## python blue (Dec 30, 2006)

the pic dose no justice


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## mitchdiamond (Dec 30, 2006)

it is twice as bright when you see it


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## dmx69errulz (Dec 30, 2006)

thats a great looking snake


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## stevel (Dec 31, 2006)

that will be very nice as an adult


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## python blue (Dec 31, 2006)

thks people im geting it sexed today


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Your intergrade is beautiful,
I've got 2.
Do you want to see photo's ?
Let us know what sex it is.


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## grimbeny (Dec 31, 2006)

If u breed it with a pure diamond, u cant really say that the hatchies are pure diamond because they will still be part coastal. Nice snake though.


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Yer your right, but what I think he means is the snakes themselves would look like a DP,
but still having the coastal bloodline in them [ not showing in the snakes appearance ].
Any how here are some photo's of my intergrades.
First 3 are of my 2 1/2 year old male.
next 2 are of my 5 1/2 year old female.
Got plenty more, but only allow 5 photo's at a time.


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## Auzlizardking (Dec 31, 2006)

mungus said:


> Yer your right, but what I think he means is the snakes themselves would look like a DP,
> but still having the coastal bloodline in them [ not showing in the snakes appearance ].
> Any how here are some photo's of my intergrades.
> First 3 are of my 2 1/2 year old male.
> ...



Do you have any of the full set ups of your enclosures?


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

will post when DP'S are out & about.


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## Tatelina (Dec 31, 2006)

python blue said:


> its quite a good snake though but if you breed it with a pure diamond will the hatchies be pure diamond again


That's like asking if a Britsh and someone a quarter Chinese and otherwise British have children will the childrens heritage be completely British.


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## python blue (Dec 31, 2006)

mungus if you ever want to sell your male ill be the first to snap it up


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Hey, I think he a beauty,
The female is a recent purchase, and the photo's dont
do her justice.
I'll take a few more latter on & post them.


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## Mysnakeau (Dec 31, 2006)

Gorgeous! I love the diamonds. I've never really been bothered with the gemstone but the diamond pythons really are my favourite. I guess there's some bias there, as its the first snake I got. Apart from Tim's stimmies, She is my first and still my only one. Diamonds really are girls best friends


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

hope your snake is a female,
If you like my male that much we could put them together in a few years time.
I also live in Newcastle - Just a thought !!


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## mitchdiamond (Dec 31, 2006)

Does anyone know of anybody with a spare breeding age male Diamond


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2006)

If you bred that Hybrid with a pure Diamond you would only be breeding Hybrids, nothing pure will come from breeding that snake.

Also why are you calling it a diamond when infact it is a hybrid? a bit misleading IMO


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## mitchdiamond (Dec 31, 2006)

Would you say its a coastel because its a little Coastel


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2006)

mitchdiamond said:


> Would you say its a coastel because its a little Coastel




I wouldnt call it either "Coastal" or "Diamond" because its not either, its a hybrid.

This is the exact reason why so many people (myself included) are against hybrids, just because it looks more like a diamond, doesnt make it one!

I think it would be a mnassive waste to breed it with anything, let alone a pure diamond.


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## python blue (Dec 31, 2006)

ok i get your thing


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Why would it be a massive waste of time to breed with it ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there coastal / diamonds intergrades in the wild ?
Its a pitty that mitchdiamond/python blue were so happy with their new purchase and
now they might have a few regrets due to your negative comments !!
I'd like to know who are these '' so many people " that are against breeding intergrades ?
I'll will be breeding mine - take it or leave it.
Happy New Year to all.


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## python blue (Dec 31, 2006)

thanks mungus you have the best new year


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

Im not against it all but im against breeding a bredli x darwin or something like that. But the biggest thing is that people breed say a coastal and a diamond together and try to sell them for say $300 a hatchy as pure diamonds which they are definetly not thats what annoys the hell out of the true breeders and alot of the people in this hobby


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## python blue (Dec 31, 2006)

if i did breed them id sell them for no m ore than 200


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Ricko,
I know were your coming from.
My 2 snakes [ refer to photo's in earlier thread ] are actually " Port Macquarie Diamonds ".
The female was bred by Greg Hollis - she was the best one out of 18. [ sold her at 15 months of age due to down sizeing ].
Refer to "mysnakeau" thread in Australian snakes - I still refer to them as intergrades !!
Are they ??????
What do you honestly think ???


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

dont think there worth more than $100 at the most but thats me. i would be buying pairs of more pure animals but thats just me. you got yourself a nice looking snake and i hope it goes well for you but if you do breed with it make sure you label hatchy's as HYBRIDS.


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

I think greg hollis's are pure intergrades not crossed in captivity which are totally different (dont know the man myself or what he does but from all i have read he breeds pure port mac's) if you breed a diamond to anything other than a full diamond then your creating HYBRIDS but thats my thoughts and as long as people label them truely and not as pure anythings then thats fine but i wouldnt do it just my opinion.


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

python blue,
I'd sell them for what people are prepared to pay for them.
Letting them know ALL the snakes history etc.
I'd pay good dollars the right Port. Mac Male for my female.


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Ricko,
so a Port. Mac Diamond in a natural intergrade, but it's still a intergrade never the less.
So whats the difference natural & captive bred intergrades ??
and the same can be said for natural & captive bred Diamonds ??


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

but thats the whole thing they arent Port macs they are captive hybrids and i hope they stay labeled as such. Thats it on this point but i must say it is a nice looking snake and as long as your happy than thats the main thing.

Rick


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

The whole thing is they are not intergrades they are hybrids. Intergrades are naturally occuring compared to being placed together in the same cage just to get some hatchies therefore creating hybrids. Is that not correct?


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks for your honest input Ricko, we will agree to disagree on some pionts.
Happy New Year to ya,
mungus


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2006)

Hi all,

Basically a true natural "intergrade" as they are known by some, is a locality form or Carpet python, not a result of Diamond pythons breeding with Coastal Carpet python.

Its all well and good to say you will sell hybrid offspring as such, but considering you started this thread as "our new diamond" i have my doubts. 

You dont have to breed everything you own, i think if you breed that to a "pure" diamond the offspring would look very much like "pure diamonds" and in the end they would end up being called "pure". 

Call a spade a spade dont call it a shovel aye


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## Ricko (Dec 31, 2006)

Do you not agree mate? Whats your opinion on it all? just for interests sake.

Cheers have a good nye
Ricko


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## JandC_Reptiles (Dec 31, 2006)

Why breed from them at all? 
You may be honest about their background (not showing this in your description so far) or may sell them as pets only, but who is to say the future owners will be as forthcoming with the truth? Hybrids are nothing but a pollution to the hobby that creates confusement & annoyance.

Do yourself and every other keeper in Aus a favour & purchase pure animals if you intend on breeding. Don't even bother selling it, keep it as a pet only till it dies or cull it yourself. The less cross breeds on the market the better IMO.


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Well, my opinion is that if you were breeding Port Mac's as Greg Hollis was / is, then I classify them as pure Port Mac Diamonds - period.
If begin to dabble & start throwing 2 different species together, that would NOT naturally breed
in the wild, then I would definately call it a " hybrid " !!!


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

J&C reptiles,
Are'nt Port. Mac. Diamonds snakes found in the wild ?
So how's it a HYBRID ???


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2006)

mungus said:


> J&C reptiles,
> Are'nt Port. Mac. Diamonds snakes found in the wild ?
> So how's it a HYBRID ???



No one has called a Port Mac a hybrid.

Basically, you cant put a Coastal and a Diamond together and call the offspring "intergrade(s)" comparable to a port mac locality carpet.

Port Mac Carpets ARE NOT the result of natural crossing, they are just a locality form of Carpet python.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Dec 31, 2006)

Mungus,
Throwing a coastal over a diamond in captivity (even though they may breed together in the wild) won't give you a natural intergrade, or a port mac Diamond as you suggest, it will still be a hybrid, just like a bredli cross jungle. Natural intergrades have been crossbreeding & inbreeding for generations upon generations to the extent of forming an entire new sub-species (according to many) due to evolution. A natural intergrade can not be replicated in captivity by cross breeding the 2 (besides it wouldn't be a natural intergrade if it didn't occur naturally would it lol) 

And to maintain Gregs pure line, his intergrades would have to be bred with other pure intergrades from the same locality. You couldn't put one of his intergrades over a Coastal or Diamond and claim them pure imo, because they would then be a "natural intergrade x Coastal or Diamond)

EG: I don't know about labelling them "Port Mac Diamonds" when they are infact "Natural Intergrades" (if thats the case). To me that just proves my above statement that there is confusement & annoyance  Why would they be labelled a pure Diamond local (as thats what I read when I see Port Mac Diamond) when they are naturally cross bred with Coastals? Surely in the same location that there is natural intergrades there may also be pure Diamonds & Coastals? (if they havn't been outbred) So are we to assume that Port Mac Diamonds are ALL tainted with Coastal blood? or not? See the confusement yet?

Label them for what they are.
Hybrids - cross bred in captivity.
Intergrades - naturally occuring in the wild.

Forget any other title for them, port mac diamonds, port mac coastals, port mac carpets isn't a true description imho. Port mac natural intergrade is exactly what they are...


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Hang on,
lets get this right - a Port Mac. Diamond is not a hybrid snake - [ intergrade snake ?? ]
So if I breed Port Mac DP to Port. Mac DP the hatchies would not be hybrid ?
If I buy or sell a Port Mac what snake code / scientific Name to I put down on my
Fauna Record book ??
I can't see anywhere where it say's " Port Macquarie Diamond " in their selections ?
I've always put down T2025 etc.


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## Australis (Dec 31, 2006)

mungus said:


> Hang on,
> lets get this right - a Port Mac. Diamond is not a hybrid snake - [ intergrade snake ?? ]



If you bred from animal taken from the port mac area those of spring will be pure locality caprets, yes that is correct.






mungus said:


> So if I breed Port Mac DP to Port. Mac DP the hatchies would not be hybrid ?



No they wouldnt be hybrids.


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

Australis,
I think someone just called a Port. Mac DP a " Hybrid "


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## JandC_Reptiles (Dec 31, 2006)

If you are reffering to me I called them a "naturally occuring intergrade" not a hybrid


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## mungus (Dec 31, 2006)

I stand corrected J & C. - did,nt read it properly, to many replies.
So when I breed them they will be natural intergrades not hybrids,
and will be sold as such.
As for a selling price, well we will have to see.


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

mitchdiamond said:


> Yeah its 75% Diamond and a bit coastel.




Why is this animals now forsale as a Diamond? When its a hybrid?


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/animal.php?saleID=10330


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## Hetty (Jan 11, 2007)

Australis said:


> http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/animal.php?saleID=10330



How do you know it's the same animal? just curious


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

thenothing said:


> How do you know it's the same animal? just curious



Exact same markings, exact same enclosure, exact same age..etc..etc..


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## Hetty (Jan 11, 2007)

Australis said:


> Exact same markings, exact same enclosure, exact same age..etc..etc..



Oh, one of those obvious things that I can't see :lol:


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

well it was sold to me as a pure diamond mitchdiamond just made it up as thats what he thinks ok why are people on this site so negative why do u try to drive away people from the site not naming any names but AUSTRALIS AND JANDC AND THE NOTHING


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

Im not trying to drive anyone too or from anywhere 

But seriously, now its made up that its 25% Coastal... come on.

Im not knocking the animal, just be honest sell it for what it is someone will still buy it im sure.

Why are you selling it so fast anyways? didnt you only just get it?


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## Hetty (Jan 11, 2007)

python blue said:


> well it was sold to me as a pure diamond mitchdiamond just made it up as thats what he thinks ok why are people on this site so negative why do u try to drive away people from the site not naming any names but AUSTRALIS AND JANDC AND THE NOTHING



:lol:

This is my problem with hybrids, people trying to sell them as pures.


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## hornet (Jan 11, 2007)

it may have been sold you you as a pure but its not so y sell it as a pure, thats just irresponsible


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## GSXR_Boy (Jan 11, 2007)

I agree,but, say he sells it as a hybrid, what is to stop someone down the track selling it as a pure? (yeah i know that;s the trouble with hybrids!!)


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## hornet (Jan 11, 2007)

but he doesnt have to add to the problem


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 11, 2007)

I would just like to say I would never sell it as a pure because that is just wrong


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## hornet (Jan 11, 2007)

good 2 hear, we need to keep pure animals pure


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## mungus (Jan 11, 2007)

Hope your not selling her due to the comments by some people who are ill-informed &
know absolutely %%** all about diamonds / intergrades ???
Mate, if you like her & want to breed her - DO IT.
If you let people push you around & change your thoughts / intentions than, well,
basically get rid of all your mirrors in the house.
I do feel for you, youv'e gone from being happy / excited & willing to share your new
snake with us to putting her for sale on another site !!!!!!!


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

dont worry mungus mitchdiamond is the 1 to tlk about not selling it as a pure ive had 4 people ring me and ive told them it was a hybrid and they stiil want it because its still a very good hybrid im only selling it because id rather get pure animals you know as im getting a male diamond soon as well as a spotted python male so im selling it to fund these animals


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

Advertising it as a "diamond" is very misleading, considering you seem to know the real background of the animal and its a hybrid... Or is it, you seem to change your mind on that also.


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## GSXR_Boy (Jan 11, 2007)

Just curious to see how you broke the 6 month contract with NPWS?


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

You can ask permission... But....


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

just curious can u ever mind ur bisseness ok its mine i can do wat ever with it ok so how about u stopp harrasing me ok


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

yes i asked for permission of them today and its a go ahead


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## dee4 (Jan 11, 2007)

Just curious Mungus, how will you get a natural intergrade in cativity?


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

dee4 because if the animals were collected from the wild like this and then when there been breed over and over again its a natural intergrade


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## Jason (Jan 11, 2007)

new to this thread but i did read it all.
dont sell because of what people say, they are just wanting you to be honest with others that may wish to breed it. 
if you cross:
diamond x intergrade = hybrid
carpet x intergrade = hybrid
intergrade x intergrade = pure intergrade
most importantly COASTAL X DIAMOND = HYBRID (NOT AN INTERGRADE)
intergrades are not made in captivity they are naturally occuring animals. 
port maquarie animals are naturally occuring intergrades! as far as i aware you dont call port mac carpets, diamonds or coastals (imo they shouldnt anyway) thats why many refer to them as port mac carpets, it doesnt misslead people.
naturally occuring intergrades such as port macs, should be on liscence as natural intergrades and not under either carpet or diamond, if it is i would suspect a hybrid!
at the end of the day its not a bad looking animal, and it would make a great pet!
just my 2 cents.


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

jason u r 1 of the kindest people on hear u dont have a big wing about it thanks to every1 that has been positive and to the others


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## python blue (Jan 11, 2007)

:x


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

python blue said:


> just curious can u ever mind ur bisseness ok its mine i can do wat ever with it ok so how about u stopp harrasing me ok



Im not wanting to harras you mate, and i havnt said anyting nasty about yourself or that animal, i just dont want to see anyone mislead into think its a Diamond python, because you or mitch diamond or who ever the person is who owns it doesnt want to be honest when selling it.

Im sure even the people who like hybrids would have something to say about people advertising hybrids as anything other than what they are "hybrids".


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## dee4 (Jan 11, 2007)

python blue said:


> dee4 because if the animals were collected from the wild like this and then when there been breed over and over again its a natural intergrade




I must have to ask you the same question....:shock: How can you get a natural intergrade if it has been breed in captivity, even over and over again???? 
Wouldn't natural intergrade only be in the wild and not in captivity????


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

Dee4,

Natural intergrades is just the label give to a "form" (for lack of a better word)of Carpet python, what some call a Port Mac Carpet etc... just like a "Brisbane Coastal" is a locality type of Coastal Carpet python.

You cant create a "natural intergrade" by breeding a Diamond x Coastal over and over again for generations then call it a "Natural intergrade".


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## dee4 (Jan 11, 2007)

Yeh, I know that but I wanted the others to explain how they will sell natural intergrades bred in captivity.


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

dee4 said:


> Yeh, I know that but I wanted the others to explain how they will sell natural intergrades bred in captivity.




Sorry,

Well i imagine they will just call them "natural intergrades" because either someone told them they are, or they just dont know any better.


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## dee4 (Jan 11, 2007)

Or they are just plain stupid :lol:


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

Nope, i just got a email reply, its seems its actually a "pure" diamond after all, thanks for your honesty.


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## dee4 (Jan 11, 2007)

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: well that is lucky.


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## Australis (Jan 11, 2007)

yeah, so much for all the above claims that it will be sold as it is................ got to love those hybrids......


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## Jason (Jan 12, 2007)

i know....lol


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## mungus (Jan 12, 2007)

Can somebody tell me how you can tell a diamond python is 100% pure by
looking at it ??
I've always wanted to know this, as I'm a bit slow & thick when it comes to identification ??
I know of a breeder who has " perfect looking Diamonds " - won club comps to prove a piont, then let everybody know that one off the parents was a intergrade 1 generation ago !!!
He's no longer a member of that club or this site.


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## Morelia_Hunter (Jan 12, 2007)

Just wanted to add my opinion. Its only in Australia that there is such an issue with a snake being pure or not. The rest of the world is a lot less narrow minded about things like that. An animals genetic origin can not be established by just looking at it, its even less likely to tell if an animal is species true due to its colour.The only way it can be assessed is by genetic testing, and i have found that in Australia (within the herp community) there are lots of animals with questionable origin. So unless you caught it in the bush originally you would not know for sure!!! I wish people would get of their high horses about this hole purity issue and appreciate snakes in captivity for what they are worth!!!! They are snakes in captivity! Never to be released back into the wild unless someone is negligent enough to leave their cages unlocked. The hobby will change in the next few years and have started changing already!!!!


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> Just wanted to add my opinion. Its only in Australia that there is such an issue with a snake being pure or not. The rest of the world is a lot less narrow minded about things like that. An animals genetic origin can not be established by just looking at it, its even less likely to tell if an animal is species true due to its colour.The only way it can be assessed is by genetic testing, and i have found that in Australia (within the herp community) there are lots of animals with questionable origin. So unless you caught it in the bush originally you would not know for sure!!! I wish people would get of their high horses about this hole purity issue and appreciate snakes in captivity for what they are worth!!!! They are snakes in captivity! Never to be released back into the wild unless someone is negligent enough to leave their cages unlocked. The hobby will change in the next few years and have started changing already!!!!



You're missing the point. We're angry about hybrids for this reason, that it's getting harder and harder to tell what's pure, and it really shouldn't be like this.


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## junglist* (Jan 12, 2007)

thenothing said:


> The coastal shows through quite a lot. Are hybrids like that worth $600?



ITS NOT A HYBRID.


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

junglist* said:


> ITS NOT A HYBRID.



Uhm.. yeah, if you say so.


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## junglist* (Jan 12, 2007)

Its not a hybrid if it has any chance of reproducing. A HYBRID IS AN INFERTILE OFFSPRING. IE IF A HORSE AND A DONKEY MATE, THEY PRODUCE NON-VIABLE OFFSPRING - A MULE.

A diamond Morelia s. spilota and a coastal Morelia spilota mcdowelli/imbricata/metcalfi/variegata will produce viable offspring,a nd therfore, using the genetic definition of a hybrid, WILL NOT PRODUCE HYBRID OFFSPRING.

Know what you'r talking about before you get up someone


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

junglist* said:


> Its not a hybrid if it has any chance of reproducing. A HYBRID IS AN INFERTILE OFFSPRING. IE IF A HORSE AND A DONKEY MATE, THEY PRODUCE NON-VIABLE OFFSPRING - A MULE.
> 
> A diamond Morelia s. spilota and a coastal Morelia spilota mcdowelli/imbricata/metcalfi/variegata will produce viable offspring,a nd therfore, using the genetic definition of a hybrid, WILL NOT PRODUCE HYBRID OFFSPRING.
> 
> Know what you'r talking about before you get up someone



ZOMG. So dumb. *le sigh* http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=44640


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## junglist* (Jan 12, 2007)

mungus said:


> Can somebody tell me how you can tell a diamond python is 100% pure by
> looking at it ??
> I've always wanted to know this, as I'm a bit slow & thick when it comes to identification ??
> I know of a breeder who has " perfect looking Diamonds " - won club comps to prove a piont, then let everybody know that one off the parents was a intergrade 1 generation ago !!!
> He's no longer a member of that club or this site.



Chances are that that determination would only be a guess anyway mungus, as its pretty much imporrible to tell the genetic origins of ht eindividual. Besides, what they're classifying is the colouration, which may present for want of a better description as "PURE" when in fact the individual animal may have actually bee naturally crosbred somewhere in its ancestory.

Its a very questionable decision.


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## MITCH (Jan 12, 2007)

nice looking diamonds blue python/mitchdiamond.
yours are just as good mungus.
heres a pic of 1 off mine.






if it works lol


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## hornet (Jan 12, 2007)

no, it will still be a hybrid, the deffinition of a hybrid is: The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races


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## Mr_Matt (Jan 12, 2007)

Australis said:


> If you bred that Hybrid with a pure Diamond you would only be breeding Hybrids, nothing pure will come from breeding that snake.
> 
> Also why are you calling it a diamond when infact it is a hybrid? a bit misleading IMO



I think he referred to it as an intergrade, which is a little different to a hybrid, as they occur naturally in the wild.


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

Mr_Matt said:


> I think he referred to it as an intergrade, which is a little different to a hybrid, as they occur naturally in the wild.



The snake is 75% diamond with some coastal. It's not an integrade.


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## mungus (Jan 12, 2007)

junglist* said:


> Chances are that that determination would only be a guess anyway mungus, as its pretty much imporrible to tell the genetic origins of ht eindividual. Besides, what they're classifying is the colouration, which may present for want of a better description as "PURE" when in fact the individual animal may have actually bee naturally crosbred somewhere in its ancestory.
> 
> Its a very questionable decision.


 

So, basically were breeding on looks & their genetic make-up is thrown out the window.
So if they look like a Diamond - its a Diamond.
How many of you can be 100% SURE your Diamond is infact genetically " pure" ???
Listen, Diamonds, Intergrades Love them the same.
They both are Australian Natives
Give them the respect they deserve & get over it !!!!!


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## jimmy (Jan 12, 2007)

thats a very nice snake


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## scam7278 (Jan 12, 2007)

mungus said:


> So, basically were breeding on looks & their genetic make-up is thrown out the window.
> So if they look like a Diamond - its a Diamond.
> How many of you can be 100% SURE your Diamond is infact genetically " pure" ???
> Listen, Diamonds, Intergrades Love them the same.
> ...



hear hear


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

Oh so much to say but refraining after my short suspension


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

If you cross a Carpet and a Diamond you DONT get a Intergrade anything like a "natural intergrade", the bottom line is its a hybrid or a Cross breed, what ever you want to call it.......... 

And its being advertised as a Diamond, which isnt being honest!

You can still get locality "pure" Diamonds that are first generation captive bred, but because people who dont really give a toss or are too think to understand it, you run a risk trying to get it from a Add like the one PythonBlue/MitchDiamond have placed.


And you can almost forget about getting a pure "natural intergrade" when most people think they are a natural cross........... or that they can cross a carpet and diamond to make one.... come on!


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

well i still think its pure as thats wat it was sold to me like and i would think its a natural intergrade think of this a diamond with a bredli yes then id call that a hybrid but if they conect togeather in the wild its ok as iuts been going on for hundreds of years SO ALL OF YOU WHO HATE HYBRIDS HATE PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS EG. MOTHER NEW ZELAND,FATHER FRENCH AND DONT TELL ME ITS ANY DIFFERNT OK


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## hornet (Jan 12, 2007)

most of us dont hate hybrids, we just dislike the people who sell them as pure animals


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

You can not create a "natural intergrade" in captivity by pairing a Diamond and a Coastal!


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

did i say anywere that it was breed like this ive seen the perants of my animal and not 1 of them was coastal carpet the lady said that there line cums from around port macqurie i was over there today


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> did i say anywere that it was breed like this ive seen the perants of my animal and not 1 of them was coastal carpet the lady said that there line cums from around port macqurie i was over there today




LOL

You're a kid and you're already lying your head off.


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> did i say anywere that it was breed like this ive seen the perants of my animal and not 1 of them was coastal carpet the lady said that there line cums from around port macqurie i was over there today



I really dont care what it is, because ill never be keeping it, but your story has changed alot in this one thread, and you (or who ever owns it) are selling it as a "Diamond", first its a diamond, then its a 75% Diamond 25% Coastal, now its a "natural intergrade".




mitchdiamond said:


> Yeah its 75% Diamond and a bit coastel.






mitchdiamond said:


> Would you say its a coastel because its a little Coastel





python blue said:


> well it was sold to me as a pure diamond mitchdiamond just made it up as thats what he thinks ok why are people on this site so negative why do u try to drive away people from the site not naming any names but AUSTRALIS AND JANDC AND THE NOTHING





mitchdiamond said:


> I would just like to say I would never sell it as a pure because that is just wrong


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

junglist* said:


> Its not a hybrid if it has any chance of reproducing. A HYBRID IS AN INFERTILE OFFSPRING. IE IF A HORSE AND A DONKEY MATE, THEY PRODUCE NON-VIABLE OFFSPRING - A MULE.
> 
> A diamond Morelia s. spilota and a coastal Morelia spilota mcdowelli/imbricata/metcalfi/variegata will produce viable offspring,a nd therfore, using the genetic definition of a hybrid, WILL NOT PRODUCE HYBRID OFFSPRING.
> 
> Know what you'r talking about before you get up someone



This post really made me laugh especially the bit where they state "know what you are talking about before you get up someone". I guess the whole hybrid/intergrade thing is in our imaginations. All this worry about a polluted hobby has been for nothing, thanks heaps for educating us junglist. Can you share your infinate wisdom with us about genetic make-up or breeding please? you seem to be so well aware that I would love to pick your brain for info on Herpetology 



python blue said:


> did i say anywere that it was breed like this ive seen the perants of my animal and not 1 of them was coastal carpet the lady said that there line cums from around port macqurie i was over there today



Even if that was the case (if the parents were natural intergrades) IT IS STILL NOT A PURE DIAMOND.
Facts have been pointed out numerous times in this thread and still members are arguing.
I can't see any other way to educate these people as it has already been spelt out and they still act un-knowingly. Maybe these members should take up a hobby like stamp collecting where they don't have to worry about simple genetics or anything else containing to common sense.


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

well im only going by wat im told lmao u think ur so good dont THE NOTHING lol


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> well im only going by wat im told lmao u think ur so good dont THE NOTHING lol



Yes, thanks for pointing that out.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> well im only going by wat im told lmao



So regardless of finding the truth, you will continue with lies & deceipt and contribute in polluting the hobby with inferior & mis-identified animals as well as place alot of confusement & concern onto other keepers and back that up with your defense of "well im only going by wat im told" ?????

I sure do hope you lose interest in Herps soon and pursue a hobby in cross-stich where you can create all the pretty patterns & colours you like before ruining this one for us all...

Oh and no offence intended, JMO and a smiley face for good measure


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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree.

If you sell this animal as a pure someone will end up being devastated down the track. Have a bit of a conscience and do the right thing.


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## dee4 (Jan 12, 2007)

I sure do hope you lose interest in Herps soon and pursue a hobby in cross-stich where you can create all the pretty patterns & colours you like before ruining this one for us all...

Oh and no offence intended, JMO and a smiley face for good measure [/QUOTE]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

well i tell the people when they call me and a man is coming around on monday i dont care wat a few of u think and no im not going too lose interest in herps cos ive got a few breeding pairs that i will be breeding this year and oh there not going to be hybrids if any of you think so u talk about me polluting the hobby when infect u r polluting this site


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

I would like to say that I was there when python blue and I picked up the snake and there was no other pythons there so I dont know where he saw the parents.The lady who owned it said it was a hybrid straight off


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

Yes I agree whole heartedly, I pollute this site by educating fellow members on correct conservation of pure Australian native wildlife....


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## MrBredli (Jan 12, 2007)

When i saw the title of the thread "our new diamond python" and noticed there were 100+ replies, i knew there is only one possible thing people could be discussing haha...


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

and plus the lady wouldent no wat a hybrid is any way they dident even know were it came from as in wat area


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> and plus the lady wouldent no wat a hybrid is any way they dident even know were it came from as in wat area



Now they don't know where it came from? yet earlier they were able to tell you its locality was a Port Mac? See where you are headed with this hobby? 1 lie turns into 2 which turns to 3 then 4 etc etc.
THAT is pollution to our hobby, lies, deceipt, un-identified & mis-identified animals and all sorts of other crap.


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## GreenWillow (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> well i tell the people when they call me and a man is coming around on monday i dont care wat a few of u think and no im not going too lose interest in herps cos ive got a few breeding pairs that i will be breeding this year and oh there not going to be hybrids if any of you think so u talk about me polluting the hobby when infect u r polluting this site


 
I cannot believe you wrote all of this without one capital letter of shread of punctuation. It is indecipherable!


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

If it was a natural intergrade shouldnt it say that one the licence


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## GreenWillow (Jan 12, 2007)

Mitchdiamond, you are no better. It's written "shouldn't" and there is a question mark at the end of a question.


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

try the people i got it of dident now wat locality it was untill today and oh if this makes u happy look IM USING CAPITAL LETTER LMAO


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

This discusion is not about grammer.


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## GreenWillow (Jan 12, 2007)

Well it should be. You and Python Blue are the laziest typers I have ever come across. I say laziest because I find it difficult to believe that at your age you do not know about question marks and capital letters.


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

python blue said:


> try the people i got it of dident now wat locality it was untill today



May I ask how they found this info out today when previously had no idea?
Possible they lied to you just so they had an answer for you. Now you will continue on with the lies as will the poor un-knowing fool who purchases them. AGAIN see where this is headed?


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

well this is the final straw ive been so ****ed of with alot of people on this stie as so many others have well **** u all not inteded at all the nice people on this site as so many before me have had enough of people on this site when infact u all no **** ok not intended to all u nice people


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

can u ****ing mods just delet my account ok


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## GreenWillow (Jan 12, 2007)

Python Blue, noone can understand you, mate.


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

well i dont want to be a member of this site no longer ok so just delet my account ok as so many others have wanted


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

Why take it personal?
No-body has attacked you we are just advising you to be honest.
Even had you of been attacked (which would of been possible seen as you are so defensive) you must expect that when you are being deceiptful regarding a hobby that alot of us are passionate about.


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

just delet my account plz


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

Oh well cya


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## GSXR_Boy (Jan 12, 2007)

Is this one of those situations where everyone grabs the popcorn and a drink watching the action?


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

You need to pick better partners in crime next time, your not even following the same story


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

im telling the people all i know ok and when people ask me is in a hybrid or intergrade i tell them unlike mitchdiamond when he was at my house he emailed 12 people saying it a pure diamond


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## JandC_Reptiles (Jan 12, 2007)

GSXR_Boy said:


> Is this one of those situations where everyone grabs the popcorn and a drink watching the action?



Only if your a hybrid lover.
Us purists sit here with bourbon & pizza snacks


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## GSXR_Boy (Jan 12, 2007)




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## Hetty (Jan 12, 2007)

GreenWillow said:


> Well it should be. You and Python Blue are the laziest typers I have ever come across. I say laziest because I find it difficult to believe that at your age you do not know about question marks and capital letters.



:lol::lol::lol:


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## Lucas (Jan 12, 2007)

And the tanties come out. I think some widdle boys need nap time.


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

When did I email people about the Diamond


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

when u were over at my place


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

What ever you say you seem to change your story every 5 minutes.


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

yep wat ever ive got people asking me if im mitch


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## python blue (Jan 12, 2007)

by the way hows ur wild cought blue tounge lol


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## mitchdiamond (Jan 12, 2007)

Its actually on licence.How is the WC babarta in your backyard


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## Lucas (Jan 12, 2007)

get over it ladies


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

I wouldnt be all that shocked, if neither of you even owned this animal

Is it housed near the $1,000 GTP you had forsale? or the exotics you had for sale?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=41459

http://www.aussiepythons.com/showthread.php?t=41940


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## TOMatoPASTE (Jan 12, 2007)

no offence to you greenwillow but this really isn't about grammer. most of us can use it but dont find it necessary when typing in a forum like this where it is the topic of discussion that matters and not necessarily how elequently and accurately it is put across.

and to you python blue, i personally dont know you or who you are but from reading this i dont think i know a person who comes across as immature, quick to anger irrationally, to take offense needlessly, to lie and deceive and to attack others for perfectly honest and neutral advice!
and as it seems i need to point out, this more honest advice, not another attack, that you should probably watch what and how you say things and who and why you say them to cos it seems to be unanimous that people are taking offence.


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## GreenWillow (Jan 12, 2007)

TOMatoPASTE, most of us are considerate enough to other readers to make what we write legible and understandable. 

I agree with you that Python Blue needs to watch what he says! And as a moderator if I can't read what he says, but given his nature, suspect that it might be rude or offensive, then my other option is simply to erase each and every post as he writes! 

But, oh, imagine the furore if I did that!


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## TOMatoPASTE (Jan 12, 2007)

haha fair enough. i will make a compromise and say fullstops and basic punctuation is preferable and considerate but perfect grammar and punctuation isnt vitally necessary (everyone realises what 'dont' means) and in the end its up to him if he doesnt want anyone to understand what hes on about :lol:


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## TOMatoPASTE (Jan 12, 2007)

oh, and i must add. what about those unfortunately barely literate ones around us who do their best to put across their thought and oppinions.....(it is a privelage to be able to use the full english language to express yourself!)


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

As for grammer, it has to atleast be readable, some of the text msg style posts take a decent amount of time to work out.


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## TOMatoPASTE (Jan 12, 2007)

agreed! let us stick to that


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## Snow1369 (Jan 12, 2007)

lols, i just wanna ask, why you called it a Diamond Python when you knew it was infact a hybrid?


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## Australis (Jan 12, 2007)

Snow1369 said:


> lols, i just wanna ask, why you called it a Diamond Python when you knew it was infact a hybrid?




lol...........

I think we all want to know that


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## TOMatoPASTE (Jan 12, 2007)

Australis said:


> lol...........
> 
> I think we all want to know that



yeah! id also like to know what the meaning of life is


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## Isis Intergrade (Jan 13, 2007)

Hey beautiful python!! I have an intergrade a diamond x Coffs Harbour she is nearly 2 meters long now she has never bitten or shown to strike, very placid tolerant girl. She is a little fussy though and will eat only tanish coloured MICE! ANY HINTS OR TIPS FOR THIS? ANY WAY ENJOY!


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## Glimmerman (Jan 13, 2007)

My I just say that calling them an INTERGRADE devalues the animal. I prefer PORT MAC (CARPET / DIAMOND) after all is that not the locale it originates????? I sincerely feel people need to get the understanding into their heads that a Port Mac should be taken onboard on it's own merits. After all has it not passed the test of time????

In this sense though, I do not believe that Python Blue's animal is a TRUE Port Mac. If it was, how would they know it was 75% Diamond?

Isis: How can you have a Port Mac when you state it is a Diamond x Coffs Harbour? Did you purchase this as an "intergrade" or a "Diamond X Coffs", or Did you breed it??

This is in no way ment to start a heated debate on INTERGRADES. I am just trying to re-credit a beautiful sp. reputation that seems to be tarnished by people placing purposely & planned captive bred Diamond x's into their sp. :evil: 

Cheers

D


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## Australis (Jan 13, 2007)

Morelia_Hunter said:


> Just wanted to add my opinion. Its only in Australia that there is such an issue with a snake being pure or not. The rest of the world is a lot less narrow minded about things like that. An animals genetic origin can not be established by just looking at it, its even less likely to tell if an animal is species true due to its colour.The only way it can be assessed is by genetic testing, and i have found that in Australia (within the herp community) there are lots of animals with questionable origin. So unless you caught it in the bush originally you would not know for sure!!! I wish people would get of their high horses about this hole purity issue and appreciate snakes in captivity for what they are worth!!!! They are snakes in captivity! Never to be released back into the wild unless someone is negligent enough to leave their cages unlocked. The hobby will change in the next few years and have started changing already!!!!



LMFAO!!!!

MoreliaHunter, 

Did you catch all your stock yourself? if not wouldnt that make the origins of your animals questionable also?..... or did you do some genetic testing? 
What genetic testing has seperated the locality types?


I dont blame the people in North America or Europe if they dont care about pure animals like you claim... they dont have much choice with people like you wanting to breed so many hybrids 


Just perhaps..... Australias have a intrest in their native fauna, and the many forms it comes in


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## IsK67 (Jan 13, 2007)

TOMatoPASTE said:


> yeah! id also like to know what the meaning of life is



That's easy - 42

IsK


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## mungus (Jan 13, 2007)

The end.


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