# Absolutely Disgusted!



## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

I went up to see the "Australian Venom Zoo" in Kuranda the other day and i was very unimpressed of the little tin shed to say the least.
For starters, I was taken on a guided tour of this so called zoo, and the first thing i saw was the boyds forest dragon, which was dead... there was a grand total of 5 species of venomous snakes, one of which was named as a king brown which looked much more like a Butlers to me, and the highlight of my day was the black whipsnake which i was told on the tour by the owner stuart douglas, that they could jump 3 foot in the air and crack its tail like a whip. 
the next thing on the list was the olive python which had scale rot. 
There is nothing i hate more than people who dont look after their animals but the way that stuart douglas treats his staff is disgraceful, it has to be seen to be believed.

But one thing took the cake on the day, the fact he actually thinks he is the best elapid handler in queensland! 
stuart douglas...what a joke!!!


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## Armand (Jul 20, 2007)

thats stupid.. why doesnt anyone do anything about this place??


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## stary boy (Jul 20, 2007)

I got a job there LOL but i didnt take it


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## $NaKe PiMp (Jul 20, 2007)

eladidare said:


> I went up to see the "Australian Venom Zoo" in Kuranda the other day and i was very unimpressed of the little tin shed to say the least.
> For starters, I was taken on a guided tour of this so called zoo, and the first thing i saw was the boyds forest dragon, which was dead... there was a grand total of 5 species of venomous snakes, one of which was named as a king brown which looked much more like a Butlers to me, and the highlight of my day was the black whipsnake which i was told on the tour by the owner stuart douglas, that they could jump 3 foot in the air and crack its tail like a whip.
> the next thing on the list was the olive python which had scale rot.
> There is nothing i hate more than people who dont look after their animals but the way that stuart douglas treats his staff is disgraceful, it has to be seen to be believed.
> ...




damn dude that zoo sounds like it sucks, it s what u call a shih-tzu LOL
whipsnakes jumpin 3 ft in air and crackin there tails ?
i think stuart douglas must be on crack :lol:


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## tfor2 (Jul 20, 2007)

Thats really dissapointing. Im sure even non snake people notice terrible and uninhabitable conditions in places like that.
By the way what is scale rot and what does it look like i have never heard of it?


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## MrBredli (Jul 20, 2007)

This is pretty shocking. It seems one of these threads is popping up every week or two now. The sad thing is, all of these threads probably result in no action whatsoever from the authorites that be. Why? My guess is that despite there being numerous replies to these threads, how many people actually ring the authorites and report it, or speak to the owner/manager and demand action be taken or else it will be reported to the authories, as well as animal welfare organisations and the media. The main problem then would be getting the abovementioned to listen, which is unlikely if only one person is reporting the problem. What we need is to form a group, that will, upon seeing undeniable evidence and hearing first hand accounts, collectively begin filing complaints with the relevant authorites, animal welfare organisations and possibly the media, depending on the circumstances. There would need to be at least one person doing all the organizing and a number of people spread over various states and areas that can gather the evidence required to make a formal complaint. Once enough evidence has been gathered, all members of the group should then receive an email with all the facts, any evidence (i.e. photographic or written statements) and all the contact info required for complaints to begin being made (i.e. email addresses and phone numbers for the state's authorites, welfare organisations and possibly local media). The more people in the group, the more complaints are obviously going to be made and the more chance there is of something being done.

Now, i came up with the idea, who wants to take the next step and get it off the ground? I would happily be a member of such a group, but certainly don't have enough time to run the whole thing - not that it would take that much time, really all you would be doing organizing the email that would be sent to the members once a complaint was ready to be made and possibly asking other members to follow up the initial complaints. So if someone feels they have the time to take this up, then please do so. The neglected animals of Australia are calling you!


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

my mate has recently brought it to the attention of the appropriate authorities, we just have to wait and hope something is done.


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## xycom (Jul 20, 2007)

As mentioned above, it sounds like it needs to be mentioned to the authorities.


Per


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## horsenz (Jul 20, 2007)

where in QLD is it??


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

kuranda village, cairns...
its worth going just to see how rediculous stuart douglas is in person


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## Magpie (Jul 20, 2007)

The EPA are well aware of Stuart and his antics.


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## serpenttongue (Jul 20, 2007)

tfor2 said:


> By the way what is scale rot and what does it look like i have never heard of it?


 
It's a skin infection due to unhygenic conditions. It causes scales to die, forming scabs that drop off leaving raw flesh exposed. Not pleasant.

By the way eladidare, what was security like?? I would have stolen that Olive just to save it!


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

wrap it up in one word "scale rot ="CRUELTY"


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## GreatSage (Jul 20, 2007)

From hearing what you said I agree that something needs to be done but "wrap it up in one word "scale rot ="CRUELTY" is far from a fair staement, it may be in this case but not all!


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## MoreliaMatt (Jul 20, 2007)

i saw the place on totally wild the other day they were praising it!!

didnt look like much on the show either (very small) and some of the animals shown and mentioned were not even the right names!


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## yommy (Jul 20, 2007)

where is this joint located so peole can boycott it if they choose???


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

i mean cruelty when its his fault


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

the AUSTRALIAN VENOM ZOO is located in Kuranda village approc 30km from cairns its up kuranda range


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## Pinkie (Jul 20, 2007)

Mr Bredli put it really well, report any situations like this to the relevent authorities and try to back up what you're saying with as much evidence as possible, photographs, video, written statements anything you can think of.


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## mickousley (Jul 20, 2007)

Bugger, all of micks taipans went up there to Stuart last year. Never heard of him before, we thought with it being a zoo they would be going to a good place. 
Sue


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

how many did u guys send up there cause he only got 2 inlands and 2 coastals there now i know a guy who has more feed back on the place and they wont eat but i think thats the same with all his animals up there


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## mickousley (Jul 20, 2007)

We sent up 2 inlands and 1 coastal. They were great eaters for us, great aniamls. we only sold them cos we blew the engine in the car and needed some quick cash. The coastal won best elapid at the Sth Cst Herp Society Show 2 years ago. Mick is getting back into the elapids now and hopefully will get animals as good as we had before.


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

stary boy said:


> I got a job there LOL but i didnt take it


 
were u lucky enough to meet stuart douglas??? if so, what did u think of him?


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## eladidare (Jul 20, 2007)

mickousley said:


> We sent up 2 inlands and 1 coastal. They were great eaters for us, great aniamls. we only sold them cos we blew the engine in the car and needed some quick cash. The coastal won best elapid at the Sth Cst Herp Society Show 2 years ago. Mick is getting back into the elapids now and hopefully will get animals as good as we had before.


 
the taipans stuart douglas has were yearlings, the adults might of died...like i said there were animals that died when i was there, they were just left in the cages.


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## krusty (Jul 20, 2007)

MrBredli said:


> This is pretty shocking. It seems one of these threads is popping up every week or two now. The sad thing is, all of these threads probably result in no action whatsoever from the authorites that be. Why? My guess is that despite there being numerous replies to these threads, how many people actually ring the authorites and report it, or speak to the owner/manager and demand action be taken or else it will be reported to the authories, as well as animal welfare organisations and the media. The main problem then would be getting the abovementioned to listen, which is unlikely if only one person is reporting the problem. What we need is to form a group, that will, upon seeing undeniable evidence and hearing first hand accounts, collectively begin filing complaints with the relevant authorites, animal welfare organisations and possibly the media, depending on the circumstances. There would need to be at least one person doing all the organizing and a number of people spread over various states and areas that can gather the evidence required to make a formal complaint. Once enough evidence has been gathered, all members of the group should then receive an email with all the facts, any evidence (i.e. photographic or written statements) and all the contact info required for complaints to begin being made (i.e. email addresses and phone numbers for the state's authorites, welfare organisations and possibly local media). The more people in the group, the more complaints are obviously going to be made and the more chance there is of something being done.
> 
> Now, i came up with the idea, who wants to take the next step and get it off the ground? I would happily be a member of such a group, but certainly don't have enough time to run the whole thing - not that it would take that much time, really all you would be doing organizing the email that would be sent to the members once a complaint was ready to be made and possibly asking other members to follow up the initial complaints. So if someone feels they have the time to take this up, then please do so. The neglected animals of Australia are calling you!




just ring up and say they are keeping boas with out the right licence and they will be there with bells on....


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## stary boy (Jul 21, 2007)

eladidare said:


> were u lucky enough to meet stuart douglas??? if so, what did u think of him?


 

yer i met stuart briefly, he was very nice to me, maybe because he wanted me to work there? but like i said it was only briefly... i mainly spoke to a lady (manager or something i think) I didnt really discuss anything with Stuart (about reps anyway) so wouldnt ave a clue if he knows what hes on about or not, the "guide" however was sure that the night tiger was a form of green tree snake lol


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## Magpie (Jul 21, 2007)

stary boy said:


> yer i met stuart briefly, he was very nice to me, maybe because he wanted me to work there? but like i said it was only briefly... i mainly spoke to a lady (manager or something i think) I didnt really discuss anything with Stuart (about reps anyway) so wouldnt ave a clue if he knows what hes on about or not, the "guide" however was sure that the night tiger was a form of green tree snake lol


 
He's always "really nice" to females


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## stary boy (Jul 21, 2007)

Magpie said:


> He's always "really nice" to females


 

your right mags, he spoke so highly of you :lol:


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## nightowl (Jul 21, 2007)

serpenttongue said:


> It's a skin infection due to unhygenic conditions. It causes scales to die, forming scabs that drop off leaving raw flesh exposed. Not pleasant.



Unhygenic conditions isn't the only way for a snake to contract Necrotising Dermatitis, IMO. 

About 12 months ago I bought an adult Port mac and 1 week later it had a severe case of RI. I took it to the vet and had Fortum injections prescribed every three days for five courses. The RI cleared up fine but when the snake sloughed she showed blotches of dermatitis all over her. She wasn't kept in poor/damp conditions either before or after I got her. From the time I had her she was in a new enclosure with newspaper substrate that was being changed daily. The enclosure was not high in humidity either. the guy I bought her from also kept her in good conditions.

She did recover after weeks of Iodine and Silvazine treatment but left some scarring. Not a pleasant thing to have to go through but it is all experience.

Cheers
Shane

PS. Sorry for being off topic


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## Tatelina (Jul 21, 2007)

stary boy said:


> your right mags, he spoke so highly of you :lol:



Snap!


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## coatesy (Jul 21, 2007)

Have to wonder why if the EPA know about him why are they not doing anything? Well more to the point why are people so cruel not to look after their animals. I am dead set AGAINST cruelty to ANY animal - they all deserve to live.


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## eladidare (Jul 21, 2007)

well aparently epa dont no about half of the stuff he has !!!!!


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## S.D. (Jul 21, 2007)

coatesy said:


> Have to wonder why if the EPA know about him why are they not doing anything? Well more to the point why are people so cruel not to look after their animals. I am dead set AGAINST cruelty to ANY animal - they all deserve to live.


 
I’m not going to start making up stories, conspiracy theories and/or just talk smack about Stuart Douglas and his company, but it seems he’s alienated himself now from the reptile community when he has been doing to for so long with Tarantula lovers.

There have been so many threads about Stuart Douglas and his never-ending contrary actions towards Australia’s Bird-Eating spiders, that there is no use starting another or recounting them all. What I will say though, from the outside-looking-in, he seems to be the long lost twin of Raymond Hoser. I mean this guy is “The Spiderman” of Australia if you read the newspapers articles and/or see the news reports and documentaries on TV. For those average-Joe’s not into Tarantulas, they see this guy, much like Raymond Hoser, as a successful guy doing his bit for Australia’s “weird” animals and having the genuine knowledge to know about and work with them. I’m not disputing any of this at all. All I’m saying is these two guys seem to be figure-heads for their respective causes and this is all done through the media or self-promotion with their own books, articles, web-sites and documentaries for example. They seem to be the masters of good promotion and self publicity.

My point is, the EPA obviously gets all these condemning reports from people involved with either snakes or spiders (again I’m not disputing the prejudicial actions of these guys). But then you have to consider that these guys are in the media, writing articles for magazines, involved in with these animals in a commercial sense, have a lot of experience doing it and there are probably just as many kudos given by average-Joe’s watching TV or reading newspapers as there are complaints from people in the respective animal communities. Who are they going to side with?

You also have to keep in mind, in the case of Stuart Douglas, he is the owner of ‘Australian Venom Zoo’ and as a result he’s quite obviously already keyed-in with the government. The government therefore also quite obviously have a high opinion of the guy as his one-off licence to collect and export invert venom (well apparently… But I’m not going to go there) would require some kind-words and references from those involved in the Tarantula community. Are you with me yet?

I think the following though is a good example of how the guy is still in business and keeps the EPA at bay (or so it seems):

“Bio prospector and venomous animal expert Stuart Douglas goes eyeball to eyeball with one of his deadly ‘milking’ tarantulas at his new Australian Venom Zoo at Kuranda Queensland Australia. Douglas is the only contracted collector and exporter of venom from Australian tarantulas, scorpions and centipedes, which are used by United States biopharmaceutical companies in new disease cures currently being tried. Toxin from tarantulas and scorpions may hold the key to cancer and heart disease treatments, once thought most likely to come from the Amazon, but it’s now much more likely the cure could come from Australia.”

I’m not condemning and/or praising anyone here at all. All I’m saying is despite all the threads and calls for these guys to be “axed”, there is a lot of reasons as to why the EPA hasn’t taken them down. In my opinion there’s no one to blame for the lack of action taken (if there needs to be) as the EPA basically has its hands tied behind it’s back.


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## Magpie (Jul 23, 2007)

The EPA is looking into it as much as they can, the problem is only the RSPCA can prosecute under animal cruelty, the EPA can only get him if he breaches his minimum Exhibitor Licence holder requirements. 
If anyone gets any proof of illegal / cruel activity they should take it to the EPA / RSPCA preferably with photos or other evidence. The EPA get a huge number of complaints, without any evidence most of them cannot be investigated.


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## Hickson (Jul 23, 2007)

I was there in November 2005. He had only recently opened up and had no snakes at all - only two or three species of Bird-eater, some scorpions and centipedes. No funnelwebs, no redbacks and no snakes. I remember thinking "this guy thinks he knows more than he does". But he let me take a photo of a spectacular centipede, so I was polite.



Hix


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## Kali7 (Jul 23, 2007)

What is it about keeping reptiles that turns people into attention seeking megalomaniacs with more ego than brains or empathy with their animals?


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## urodacus_au (Jul 23, 2007)

This guys been a joke for a long time, he made a fool of himself on the invertebrate scene to start with. 

The supposed expert who sells animals by their family, be like trying to sell a tiger snake as "an Elapid". In this case it was scorpions and spiders but you get the idea. Unfortunately these people only seem to have to impress during an interview then theyre allowed to do what they want so long as theres no major and obvious breach of their license conditions.

Take the job Maddy, take him down from within his own zoo 
Jordan


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## nickamon (Jul 23, 2007)

I agree with Mr Bredli. 

The other thing is, if Stuart Douglas finds out what you've said about him on here, he could litigate. You can't say whatever you want on the internet without someone getting butt-hurt. It bites, but that's how it is.


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