# Breeding Rats



## Black.Rabbit (Nov 28, 2011)

It's getting damn expensive feeding all these snakes....

With my 6 (soon to be 7) and my close friend having 2, we've made a deal that if I buy all the equipment and rats, her and her husband will breed them and cull them for me. I think it's a pretty sweet deal...

Anyway, I am wondering if there are any guidebooks/websites etc with good information on good setups, methods and everything else that one would need to know about breeding rats for snakes.

Cheers, Ellie


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## discountreptile (Nov 28, 2011)

Hello Ellie,

Just google it or check out some threads here.

It sounds like a great idea but when put into practice its another thing.

They take more looking after than your reptiles. 

Hope it works out for all of you


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## Rattler (Nov 28, 2011)

australian rat forum has feeder breeders on there.


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## nagini-baby (Nov 28, 2011)

the rats and mice can be a bit of work but i think its worth it considering the amount of money you save esp if you buy their food in bulk.


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## wokka (Nov 29, 2011)

there is a book something like- If it sounds to good to be true then it normally is!
Why would someone tie themselves down to a 7 day a week job just because you pay for the tools of trade?
Do you think if you buy them a broom they will clean you house?
Have i missed something?


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## hugsta (Nov 29, 2011)

Probably not really worth it for that many snakes IMO. Although, if someone else is going to breed them for you, why not. I guess you will have to supply them all the food and bedding as well seeing as they will be cleaning and maintaining the rodents. Will you take over the breeding if they decide i smells too much and not worth the effort as they only have 2 snakes?


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## -Katana- (Nov 29, 2011)

I've actually found I really enjoy owning and breeding rats. They're a lot smarter than pythons and it kinda seems a shame to feed smart animals to dumb animals.
Still, I'm not so smitten that I don't lose sight of the reason why I breed them.

Just a small word of caution though.
If you join a rat forum I'd kept it to yourself you are breeding "feeders" lest the collective fury of the membership be poured out upon you.

There are a lot of very good and knowledgeable rat breeders here on this site who have a more pragmatic view of their animals.


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## nagini-baby (Nov 29, 2011)

the fun part is that you can play with colours and patterns. on cull day.. sort through the litter ooh you look cool ok you can live. haha just got some awesome patterned mice from a pair of boring brown mice. they are awesome with bits of white all over them. so they are getting grown up to replace my older breeders.


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## -Katana- (Nov 29, 2011)

nagini-baby said:


> the fun part is that you can play with colours and patterns. on cull day.. sort through the litter ooh you look cool ok you can live. haha just got some awesome patterned mice from a pair of boring brown mice. they are awesome with bits of white all over them. so they are getting grown up to replace my older breeders.



True dat!

I get to indulge my latent Goddess complex by smiting those that displease me and dropping them into the jaws of yon ravenous serpents....../:lol: jk.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 29, 2011)

Actually, especially for the larger (adult +) sizes, I don't think you save anything by breeding and growing them out yourself, especially in the small numbers you're talking here. You can't buy food in sufficient bulk to save money, the enclosures cost money, your time is a substantial consideration for older animals, and it takes several months of time & food to produce a 250-300gm rat. Been there and done it myself - it becomes a 7 day a week committment. You'll spend all your time looking after rodents and less time with your snakes...

Jamie


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## JAS101 (Nov 29, 2011)

nagini-baby said:


> the fun part is that you can play with colours and patterns. on cull day.. sort through the litter ooh you look cool ok you can live. haha just got some awesome patterned mice from a pair of boring brown mice. they are awesome with bits of white all over them. so they are getting grown up to replace my older breeders.


so your playing god - in who will live and who will die lol , i do the same .


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## nagini-baby (Nov 29, 2011)

ill agree with this, luckily for me i dont need that much in the way of huge rats. every now and then i keep a full litter or two and grow them up to replace my breeders and then use the breeders for the guys that take the big ones. works for me. but as i said i dont need too many that size.



Pythoninfinite said:


> Actually, especially for the larger (adult +) sizes, I don't think you save anything by breeding and growing them out yourself, especially in the small numbers you're talking here. You can't buy food in sufficient bulk to save money, the enclosures cost money, your time is a substantial consideration for older animals, and it takes several months of time & food to produce a 250-300gm rat. Been there and done it myself - it becomes a 7 day a week committment. You'll spend all your time looking after rodents and less time with your snakes...
> 
> Jamie


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 29, 2011)

Most backyard breeders don't factor in the time it takes over the months to raise large rats - and your time should be costed out if you have a lot of animals.

J


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## Sdaji (Nov 29, 2011)

Can I get in on this deal too? I'd gladly supply them with cages, food, etc. if they do all the work and give me the end product!

Breeding rats isn't worthwhile for that few snakes, especially if they're large ones, but if you have fun with it (or have a couple of slaves!), good luck to you  I breed for my own snakes and sell a few, but even with 50-100 snakes it's not always worthwhile to breed rather than buy. I probably don't turn any profit out of it, but I enjoy the hobby side of breeding rats and I get a reliable supply of good quality snake food. Sometimes I can't get that at any price, which is why I started breeding my own.

I often wonder if people who get their snake feed from me enjoy feeding their snakes gourmet rats with funny spots and stripes and colours :lol: I suppose a lot of snake people wouldn't know the 'special' colours and patterns from the common ones anyway. I have no doubt the snakes don't care at all :lol: I do get a bit of a chuckle feeding the most sought after rat morphs to snakes


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 29, 2011)

Sure, as Sdaji says, if you enjoy doing it, then go for it , but for lots of people it's a major chore. My problem is that I like rats... so killing them gives me no pleasure at all!

Jamie


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## nagini-baby (Nov 29, 2011)

out of curiosity will a mother rat accept pups that arent hers? like a foster mum? id assume you would have to get the new females scent on them so she would think they were hers but still does it work?


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## -Katana- (Nov 29, 2011)

mind don't.
They eat any pups that aren't hers.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 29, 2011)

Rats often (or even usually if they're in a community nest) cross suckle their young. Cooperative little things...

J


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## solar 17 (Nov 29, 2011)

my suggestion as a rat breeder. the average adult snake eats 30-35 rats in a season multiply that by 9 for you and your friend....thats 315 rats.
put it out there for a bulk deal you should one and theres your feed for the season in the freezer no more work.
........solar 17 (baden)


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## Sdaji (Nov 29, 2011)

Depends on the rat. Mine accept any babies and raise them. Some won't even accept their own if you take them away and put them back in. Actually, some are so stupid they won't even look after their own babies directly after giving birth to them :lol:


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 29, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> mind don't.
> They eat any pups that aren't hers.



That's probably individual beahviour. The baby-eater should be culled form your herd...
J


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## Jay84 (Nov 29, 2011)

The cost of frozen rodents is ridiculous! I don't know how pet shops can justify charging that money. 

I breed my food. I have about 15 tubs of rodents and I have saved heaps of $$$$. I do not factor in my 'time' as it is something I enjoy. If you have them set up correctly they are very low maintenance. 

Food gets topped up once every few days to a week. Water the same depending how hot it is or how many in each tub. And I clean once a week to once a fortnight depending how many are in each tub. 

I have to clean my snakes tubs more than my rodents!

I agree with growing up large rats. It does take a long time and this is when you may not see much of a benefit financially (depending where you buy frozen from and how much they charge). This is why I have started breeding rabbits for my larger snakes! More food yes, but babies get culled sooner, and I love my bunnies. They are adorable!


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## solar 17 (Nov 29, 2011)

Another problem for rat breeders "summer".
Nearly all rats are dead at 38c sure air conditioning, but how many have it and another little known fact is that 99% of rats stop breeding at 33c.
........solar 17 {baden}


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## saximus (Nov 29, 2011)

Mine don't require 7 days a week work. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...


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## JAS101 (Nov 29, 2011)

nagini-baby said:


> out of curiosity will a mother rat accept pups that arent hers? like a foster mum? id assume you would have to get the new females scent on them so she would think they were hers but still does it work?


mine have in the past with no issues

i run 12 breeder tubs of mice [ 3 :1 ratio ] and 8 tubs of breeder rats [3:1] ratio then i have tubs for the mums and babies [ rats only] what i dont need i sell , it covers the cost for rodent food and elec bill for summer [ there shed is aircond] and winter i have a log fire place .


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## nagini-baby (Nov 29, 2011)

how big are your tubs out of curiosity?



JAS101 said:


> mine have in the past with no issues
> 
> i run 12 breeder tubs of mice [ 3 :1 ratio ] and 8 tubs of breeder rats [3:1] ratio then i have tubs for the mums and babies [ rats only] what i dont need i sell , it covers the cost for rodent food and elec bill for summer [ there shed is aircond] and winter i have a log fire place .


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## icedmice (Nov 29, 2011)

Breeding rats is not difficult to do really but can be fustrating at times. Getting hold of good foundation animals is not as easy as you'd expect unless you know someone with a healthy handleable colony.
If you have a bunch of dodgy rats it's a pain in the bum to breed problems out or start again.

The rat forum can be interesting, I have logged in on occasion but doesn't take long before I remember why I left . Public discussion of feeder breeding is generally not welcome on most Australian rat forums. They will often tell you to post here LOL.

Just really depends on wheather you want to deal with the mess, and don't mind doing the extra work. You aren't really going to save too much breeding your own on a small scale.
On the other hand they make excellent garbage disposal units! not a single crumb of food is wasted at our place  .

BTW: I only did it once but I sucessfully fostered a baby plains rat to a nursing domestic rat. Wasn't rocket science, just rubbed a bit of soiled litter from her cage onto the baby plains rat and nature did the rest. Boy do plains rats have a grip, once the little tyke got a nipple the domestic doe was dragging her foster child everywhere. I'd imagine swapping rat babies wouldn't be a huge drama.


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## Black.Rabbit (Nov 29, 2011)

Ekkk... this has totally turned me off the whole idea... when this forum is where I got the idea in the first place, reading suggestions that people give to others how they save so much money by breeding, even if it's for a couple of snakes, never heard anything negative about it until now. (That being said, I haven't been on here in months, perhaps trends have changed hehe)

I think my friend and her husband would get annoyed with all the work... they already have 2 kids, 2 snakes, 2 dogs, 2 birds and 7 chickens... (chickens are already their disposal unit).... Her biggest snake takes large rats and my biggest 2 are on medium rats, i guess it would take a while for them to get to that size... 

I thought it'd be great idea... although it seems, maybe not.

oh well... 

thanks for the replies anyway



solar 17 said:


> my suggestion as a rat breeder. the average adult snake eats 30-35 rats in a season multiply that by 9 for you and your friend....thats 315 rats.
> put it out there for a bulk deal you should one and theres your feed for the season in the freezer no more work.
> ........solar 17 (baden)



How long do they keep in the freezer?



Jay84 said:


> This is why I have started breeding rabbits for my larger snakes! More food yes, but babies get culled sooner, and I love my bunnies. They are adorable!



That's something I haven't thought of... what size are rabbits when they're born, how long is gestation and how many do you get per clutch? (should probably just google it... lol)


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## hugsta (Nov 30, 2011)

saximus said:


> Mine don't require 7 days a week work. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...



You should check daily for any deaths that may occur and also to ensure there have been no floods that may have drowned your rats/mice depending on your setup and to just make sure all is doing well.


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## JAS101 (Nov 30, 2011)

nagini-baby said:


> how big are your tubs out of curiosity?


all are in 50lt tubs weather it be mice or rats .

buunys are the next thing ill start breeding for the reps .


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## Bez84 (Nov 30, 2011)

Ive been breeding rats on and off for a few years and i think its alot cheaper they buying..
I used to be checking water bottles everyday but since ive hooked all the tubs up to a automatic watering system and all the food is in mesh hoppers then i spend hardly any time on the rats..
I top the water and food up every few weeks and clean the tubs out weekly... sell excess rats to a few mates, few live ones to the petshops and that covers all production costs and my snakes eat for free...
When i was in full production supplying rats to the petshops i was making enough to cover all costs, plus producing free food for my collection as well as a bit of profit on top to reinvest back into the setup..
Plus i think rats are really fun to work with and like to mess around with colors etc.
My current setup is 65l black recycle tubs i got from a cheap shop (brillant things that have lasted years without a mark on them) these have timber framed mesh lids with mesh hoppers built into the top.. i just have these sitting side by side running along my shed wall all hooked up to my watering system that i installed bout 6 months ago... best money i ever spent..


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## Black.Rabbit (Nov 30, 2011)

I mentioned the rabbit thing to my friend but she is not keen on the idea.. but asked about guniea pigs...?

Does/has anyone breed Guinea Pigs for snakes??


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## saximus (Nov 30, 2011)

Guinea pigs are less viable than rabbits. They have smaller litters and much longer gestation periods. I reckon you should still have a go at the rats. Just a breeding trio or quartet to get started. It won't cost much to set up and if you're not happy with the cost/time then you can just stop


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## Justdragons (Nov 30, 2011)

I have got my rack system set up and my tubs and just need to buy my rats and mice and my valves. Anyone know a site i can get the valves from with the clips? 


also can people post pics of their setups? Id love to see these metal food hoppers and rack systems..


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## -Katana- (Nov 30, 2011)

Nipple - A Vari-Flow Drinking Nipple - Brookfield Poultry Equipment


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## Fuscus (Nov 30, 2011)

Akwendi said:


> Nipple - A Vari-Flow Drinking Nipple - Brookfield Poultry Equipment


Not certain if they sell the clips ( please correct me if I'm wrong, hopefully I am ).
Our American cousins at agselect AgSelect: Browsing Mounting Clip for Vari-Flo Drinking Valve with 3/16"barb sell both clip and valve. Postage is about $20 for a package.
Oh and found this image on a rat forum - I think some will like it


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