# what are your dog training dilemas?



## nagini-baby (Jul 13, 2010)

hi all

my reason for asking about peoples previous dog training dilemas is that i am currently studying to teach dog obidence and i was just interested in what people may have had trouble with in the past.. and if they managed/corrected the problem what they did to do so? also if there are any other dog trainers on here. i would be happy to hear from you with any advice or other courses that you may think would be benificial for a budding instructor to look into . as of course i want to make your that the beloved canines best interests are at heart and all needs are met. and i think that the more knowledge i can gather the better equiped i will be to help others with their doggy dilemas. 

looking forward to hearing from you


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2010)

I've had problems with owners who can't accept that you need to use corrections to train a dog. I recommend looking at leerburg.com. I was introduced to Ed Frawley's methods while living in the US, where I was involved in protection training. He's the best there is. Join the forum there, you won't get any better advice.

Try to learn from someone who has experience in protection training as you'll know that they really know how to train a dog. Some of the trainers I see don't know their ear from their *******, it's incredible. That british girl on tv who drives the VW is a terrible trainer. Her solution when faced with a difficult dog was to have it castrated. That's not training. Protection training is the hardest training there is.


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## Flaviruthless (Jul 13, 2010)

My dog is a german shepherd. She came from an abusive home (mainly neglect and some physical abuse) when she was three years old. We have had her for a year now, she is four. When we first got her she was very dominant; we couldn't take her to the dog park to interact with other dogs because she would attack them. She would never hurt them (i.e. break the skin) but she would chase them and try to dominate them (pin them, stand over them). She wouldn't walk on a lead and had no idea about training, as she had never been taught anything other than to shake. At puppy training she would not drop. We practiced at home and eventually she did it. Now she is well behaved and will interact with other dogs; I tried to get her used to them by taking her to the dog park when there was no one there so that she could learn the smells and by making her sit before we went in. Now if she misbehaves I put her on the lead, make her sit and get her to drop in front of the other dogs. The main issue we have now is the lack of her obedience with some of the other members of my family. I trained her, but I tried to get them to make her sit, etc. Only they didn't and now there are a few small issues (nothing major). Sorry for the long post, I guess what I'm trying to say is it's good to emphasize preventing the problem, rather than solving it and training involves a lot more people than just those that are present at the class. Best of luck with it


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2010)

You should never take a dog to a dog park, worst idea ever. Don't get me started on this. Dogs are pack animals and you and you're family are the pack and that's all they need. Dogs don't need to have contact with other dogs especially if they have dominance issues within the family already.


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## Flaviruthless (Jul 13, 2010)

Good job I don't take her anymore then.


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2010)

anouc said:


> You should never take a dog to a dog park, worst idea ever. Don't get me started on this. Dogs are pack animals and you and you're family are the pack and that's all they need. Dogs don't need to have contact with other dogs especially if they have dominance issues within the family already.



I take my dogs to the park because they enjoy running off the leash there with the other dogs, these dogs they usually know as we are all regulars and they enjoy playing and interacting with each other. Sure, if you do not have full control of your animals then they can't enjoy the priviledge of the dog park. But really, a dogpark is a wholesome activity for most dogs 

In my experience (vet nurse, dog owner and having retrained dogs for adoption) the most common problems are innapropriate urination, dog aggression, food aggression, hierachy confusion and axiety based destruction and barking. Conquere those and you will be a great trainer. Also, learn to recognise when you are in over your head, failing to do this will often result in making the problem worse! GOOD LUCK!


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2010)

I might add, the problem that are most easily fixed are the ones where the owner does not understand why the behavious occurs in the first place:
Urinating inside the house, usualyl behind furniture when the owner isn't looking - because the dog has been punished for this in the past they try to hide it from their owner, they fail to 'do their business' on walks because they think the act displeases their owner and try to wait so they can hide it in the house or under a bed. Fix - keep the animal on a leash, or crate them, or in the same room as you during the day (on the first day of retraining), then take them outside where they will likely be desperate to go. When they do, wait for them to finish and then immediately praise them with pats/toys/a treat, whatever they like! Do not punish for past indescretions such as a nasty present that was left hours ago, animals live in the moment and cannot connect this punishment in the present with an action performed in the past (even ten minutes ago). 

I should say now that when i say punish i am NOT advocating physical or verbal abuse of your animals! The tone of your voice or a firm poke in the neck or ribs should be enough for you animal to understand your displeasure. Try to avoid the words 'no' or 'bad', instead use a made up word that isnt used in your vocabulary (to avoid confusion) use a vocalisation such as 'UH!' or 'ACK!' Hurting your animal will only cause it to lose faith in your ability to lead him and trust as his master and friend. A kind word and a gentle touch will do more to encourage the right behaviour than a slap or a kick to discourage the 'wrong' behaviour.

Or say digging in the garden, this may be because your entire male dog smells a bitch on heat, in which case, give him a run he cant dig out of or keep him inside, its just his instincts and if you dont like it, get chemical desexing! (non permanent ..) If the digging is due to boreden (most common reason) give them their own sandpit to use rather that your garden beds! And MORE TOYS  Try to remember that your dog is only exhibiting natural behaviours, it is our job as their owners to understand this behaviour and to help them modifiy it so it suits the owner AND the dog! (Try asking a cat NOT to use a scratching post!!) <--good luck!


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## hypochondroac (Jul 13, 2010)

anouc said:


> You should never take a dog to a dog park, worst idea ever. Don't get me started on this. Dogs are pack animals and you and you're family are the pack and that's all they need. Dogs don't need to have contact with other dogs especially if they have dominance issues within the family already.



I'm not sure if your intention is to sound completely off the mark or if i'm just interpreting it that way.
Every trainer has a different idea of the 'right' way. Protection or guard dog training doesn't apply to a large percentage of cases trainers are called for, the first step for me is training the owners, not the dog. More often than not their is a simple solution and the owners arn't providing the dog with the right directions or enough consistency.

I don't agree with all of Victoria's (British trainer on television) methods but neutering is a smart move. It prevents unnecessary breeding, testicular cancer, it aids in better behaviour and a neutered male is often alot less aggressive towards other males than he would be with his stuff.
Believe it on not they also smell nicer. 

If you don't intend on breeding with your dog, neuter it. That's my opinion.

All i can suggest is that you go down to your local kennel club and watch and listen to alot of the obedience training advice being given, watch agility trials, study up on breeds, if you know your breed history identifying a problem and the cause can be alot easier. Phone some local trainers and ask them the same questions.


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2010)

The concept of ”Dog Parks” was well intended but a bad idea, especially when dogs are allowed to run off-leash. The main problems all stem from people who don't understand and have not established pack structure with their dogs. This means their dogs are out of control. Even if you are a good trainer you'll never be able to guarantee other dogs have been trained well. 

The principals of training are the same no matter what dog you are working with. You just vary the methods based on the temperament of the dog, for instance a hard police dog required a correction that would look like animal cruelty to most people, but a soft dog may only require you to slightly raise your voice to get the same effect. The key is being able to read the temperament of the dog correctly.

This is an area I know intimately as I have worked with some extremely dominant protection dogs with drives that 90% of so called trainers out there wouldn't be able to handle. I guarantee if Victoria was given some of the dogs I've handled she would be eaten alive. I could go on forever about this but this is not the place to be doing it.


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2010)

Here is an article on dog parks written by one of the worlds leading authorities on dog training: Dog Parks Why they are a Bad Idea


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2010)

It certainly seems to be a question you should be posing to a dog training forum.

Anouc - i completely agree with your judgement that you cannot predict the behaviour of other animals even if you trust your own. The number of times my Groenendael has been attacked at our regular park is dissapointing. Luckily he has nothing to show for it as we has always been able to intervene thus far. These owners are told under no uncertain terms that they are not welcome until they can control their animals better, or they must use the seperate, fully fenced ares intended for small dogs until it is required by other owners. 

A few years ago i was working as a groomer and mobile hydrobather, i was the only member of staff that could safely work with some of the dogs we cared for. I remember one particular (very poorly trained) security dog, and it was barely trained at that, who was a lovey dog if you understood him and communicated with him properly, but would try and rip anyone else apart. It's just that most people do not understand how powerful these animals are, have not the respect for them that they deserve, and as such they maintain no working relationship with the animal which is dangerous and irresponsible for all involved. 

Anouc, i would love to pick your brains! You seem to be saying everything i agree with. I used to volunteer at the RSPCA and was immeasurably frustrated with their attitude towards dog training. No wonder so many animals are destroyed when they consider even simple anxiety responses as aggression and label them as no hopers. Last year i rehomed a gorgeous mastiff x cattle dog, about the seven month mark when we had him. He was food aggressive, dog dominant and was a problem urinator. My dogs do not react aggressively when they encounter an aggressive dog (or are unforunately attacked) they return to my side and listen to me, usually it is small yappies that go for them so no harm done so far mind you. Anyway, this mastiff went for my rotti x one say and she just rolled over like she does, it took a few good belts to this tanks guts to get him to snap out of the moment, he got the idea that his behaviour was not wanted very quickly and from them on was great with all dogs large and small. On top of that, he was food aggressive, but it was easily managed and he quickly learnt to respect us when we wanted to removed something in his possession and not to go for other dogs while he was eating. these animals just need to learn what is expected of them. Having said that a nurse i work with has an Irish terrier pup who regularly nips and bites her children, both in play and agressively protecting toys or food. The owner thinks this is perfectly acceptable behaviour "because its a dog and in a pack they have to protect their food", fair call if thats how you feel but frankly, i think YOU ARE AN IDIOT. anyone that allows their dog to bite their child needs to be slapped with a wet fish around the head. end rant

anouc, what line of work were you in that had you training protection dogs? my partner is in security work these days and would love to one day work as a dog handler. At the same time i have hopes of also joining the police force and work in the dog unit. What do you think of these? THREAD HIJACK!


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## Laghairt (Jul 13, 2010)

Hi Shooshoo, 

I was competing in Shutzhund and working as a trainer consultant for a company that supplied law enforcement agencies and private security with dogs while studying in Texas. We mainly worked with Mals as well as DDR & Czech working line GSD's. Super high drive and sometimes very dominant dogs. We did a lot of agility, tracking and bite work so I've done it all.

I suggest you join the forum at leerburg.com as you will get the best advice available from the people there. I have to go as I've got work to do.

PM me if you have any further questions.


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 13, 2010)

Shooshoo - sorry, but you have next to no chance working for the dog unit in Bris. It is EXTREMELY competitive, and places are very limited. Your best bet if you truly want to get in is to join the force, finish training, and then move somewhere rural with a good dog squad, like Mt Isa. It could easy take 10 years to get back to Brisbane and in the dog unit there. Sorry to burst the bubble. I have several mates in the force TRYING to get into the dog squad, a bro-in-law who did it the Mt Isa way, and another guy who is training the police puppies currently. 

If you're looking at security dog courses in Brisbane, check out Redgum Kennels in Park Ridge. I have boarded my mastiff and wolfhound (and a doberman) there for years, and they are great.


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## cris (Jul 13, 2010)

One problem i have is i want to snake proof my dog so if i take it somewhere where there are dangerous snakes it wont die and if it notices snakes in the yard it wont kill them. I have read about using electric training collars and this seems like a good idea to me, is it a good idea or are there better ways to do this?


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 13, 2010)

I've thought of this, too, Chris. I know the zap-collars are what they do in the states. I've never heard of it here though.


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2010)

Kristy - i was actually thinking about the NSW state police as while it's still competetive there, there are many more positions and potentially, as you say, i have a better chance down there! Just because it's not likely doesn't mean there's no point trying. Besides which, i want to be an officer for the sake of being an officer, not just because i want to be in the dog unit, that would be naive to say the least!

Anouc - ta for the link, interesting read and will take that to work with me for preschool classes!


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 13, 2010)

Sorry, shooshoo - no discouragement intended. If you are serious, I can find out what contacts me bro-in-law has that might be useful to you.


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## euphorion (Jul 13, 2010)

That would be very kind of you Kristy, PM me 

In other news, just played around with one of those silly Dog IQ tests. Sadie, my mutt, is apparently a genius (she could have told you that!) Dante, my Groenendael <-- supposed to be the smart one... not so much, lol.


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## nagini-baby (Jul 14, 2010)

loving all the responses guys keep em coming... its good to see such vairied opinions.


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## Brissyboy (Jul 14, 2010)

My kelpie X was a very nervous dog around other dogs (a sweetheart around people) still sort of is but she used to get so scared she would freak out and start barking and biting the other dog but i just forced her to socialize and she got better, she only ever freaks out now if the dog runs towards her or if a dog sneaks up behind.


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