# keeping wild caught



## mickydrippin (Dec 5, 2007)

if you know some is getting wild caught reptiles should you report them or name and shame them on here


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## Whisper2 (Dec 5, 2007)

i dont ever think name and shame is the way to go unless it effects other people. 
i would report them and let the right people deal with it : )
then again if they were to sell or breed from it then it would be better to warn potential buyers


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## abbott75 (Dec 5, 2007)

What about "legal WCs"?


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## Lesa (Dec 5, 2007)

What are the rules for wild caught. Is it a definate no-no or do you need a special license?


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## gillsy (Dec 5, 2007)

Dob them in.


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## gillsy (Dec 5, 2007)

Wild caught animals are allowed to be kept if captured on a licenses.

These licenses are only avail in NT and WA.

Most Keelbacks are still wild caught, Golden GTS are generally wild caught.

As are some night tigers.

I have all three plus a wild caught carpet, but it was a WIRES rescue from a suburb in Sydney


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## Tiliqua (Dec 5, 2007)

I guess its up to you to decide mate.
Obviously you would want some proof to support your claims rather than just slandering names. With regards to legally caught/trapped reptiles, i don't think there's anything to hide on the matter, it's where a lot of hobbyists turn to for some of the more difficult species to obtain. I got some of my Blueys from a legal wild caught source from interstate.


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## gillsy (Dec 5, 2007)

Agree with Tiliqua, without proof it can backfire.

You'd want to make sure they don't have a license.


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## JasonL (Dec 5, 2007)

Just remember that it wasn't long ago that most reptiles kept had been illegally wild caught, and if people hadn't done it, we wouldn't have a licence system at all. Selling wild caught animals illegally or ruining habitat to get them, well thats a totally different thing.


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## mrmikk (Dec 5, 2007)

Someone naming nand shaming is fraught with danger, without proof you could find yourself in a civil libel matter. Report your information to the relevant authority.


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## gillsy (Dec 5, 2007)

All great ideas.


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## BIG RYANO (Dec 5, 2007)

mickydrippin said:


> if you know some is getting wild caught reptiles should you report them or name and shame them on here


Another do gooder trying to save the world from the terrible people who catch reptiles illegally. Nevermind the millions that get run over by roadtrains and cars every year. Mind your own buisness.


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## Bouncer (Dec 5, 2007)

The way I see it, we pay for our permits and we pay for our animals, why should people get away with doing it illegally? I'd dob them in, like I always do.
It's a shame I don't have any proof on some of the respected people in the reptile community who pay for wild caughts and just pop them on their papers as NI and sell them off. Taking from the wild is one thing, taking for profit disgusts me no end.


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## BIG RYANO (Dec 5, 2007)

I believe the majority of reptile keepers in this country have at some stage knowingly owned a reptile that was caught illegally, either by themselves or a friend. I'd like to see how many people would knock back a green python on paper for say $500 that they knew was collected from the wild. Not many. All the hypocrites will no doubt start posting saying no way. But i dont believe it for a second.


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## ace#74 (Dec 5, 2007)

yer that would be hard but it would be the same sort of temptation of an exotic animal but the fact its on paper would get alot more people to buy


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## zulu (Dec 5, 2007)

*re keeping*

Yeh Ryano,it was a way of life for us oldies catching reptiles before they were protected,even now the onley really significant facts ive read over the last few years was the result of Pilbarra pythons catching womas in the wild,if they havent published they ought to.


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## scam7278 (Dec 6, 2007)

well i think most people on here do it or have done it in the past


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## ace#74 (Dec 6, 2007)

when i was 8 i used to catch and keep garden skinks lol does that count


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## Khagan (Dec 6, 2007)

Well i dunno about reporting them straight off, talk to them and let them know what they are doing is illegal and what could happen if they are caught. Some people might just not know there is licensing, because unless you actually look to see if there is any or someone tells you theres no other way of knowing.


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## cockney red (Dec 6, 2007)

*Anyone who takes reps from the wild is a tosspot.:evil:*


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## Colin (Dec 6, 2007)

JasonL said:


> Just remember that it wasn't long ago that most reptiles kept had been illegally wild caught, and if people hadn't done it, we wouldn't have a licence system at all. Selling wild caught animals illegally or ruining habitat to get them, well thats a totally different thing.



too true Jayson. 

I really don't think it's a good idea to dob someone in over things like this. Just be responsible for yourself and your own actions.


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## Colin (Dec 6, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I believe the majority of reptile keepers in this country have at some stage knowingly owned a reptile that was caught illegally, either by themselves or a friend.




Absolutely true mate. Back in 1990 I tried to get a reptile keepers licence but the NSW NPWS just wouldn't issue any to anyone for quite a few years. You could only have 2 snakes without a licence and they had to be sourced from licenced breeders. The first legal carpet python I owned was from Gerry Swan of the AHS in 1991 for free because it was illegal to sell reptiles for money then. They had to be given for free or swapped. 

But I also had WC diamonds, RBBS, Demansia psammophis, hemiaspis signata etc in my collection. I basically gave away my whole collection back then through frustration of the non issue of licences and got back into herps years later when licences were available.

I'm not condoning keeping WC animals but back then it was the normal thing and widely done by everyone.


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## ozianimals (Dec 6, 2007)

Dob them in..........If they have the correct lic. The authorities will already know that he is allowed to do it as they issued his lic.

Big Ryno.......You might have had to do it in the past.....but in todays world we don't just drop the "A bomb"... but we did in the past.....It's no excuse....We have no need to destroy our wild animals and there habitats. If it was injured or could not survive in the wild anymore then fine there are organisations that will take and care for them. Otherwise come and have a look at my tassie tigers I have all of them in captivity pitty there are none left in the wild but hey I am OK......

Just buy the animals from a breeder or get one that is a legally WC animal......

PS have never owned a WC animal.....just demesticated animals and licensed animals....


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## salebrosus (Dec 6, 2007)

mickydrippin said:


> if you know some is getting wild caught reptiles should you report them or name and shame them on here



I think you should mind your own frigging business for starters. I do not do it personally, but i do not hold it against someone for a pulling a snake off the road and keeping it. After all the animals that get deliberately shovelled, run over, shot etc etc one person picking up a pretty little carpet python off the road is nothing in the overall scheme of things.

However, i don't like knowing of people raping the bush, taking heaps of animals then flogging off all the animals for their own financial gain. If its on the road its fair game. 

Simone.


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## salebrosus (Dec 6, 2007)

I should further add that with the amount of destruction to vegetation being done in my shire, is nothing to a person taking one snake from the wild. After all, most people got into reptiles by catching or keeping a bluetongue as kids.

Simone.


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## pugsly (Dec 6, 2007)

Agree Simone.

Colin, its amazing how far we have come since 1990 isn't it! Its been 17 years of massive improvements, but starting too see some cracks now, its time for more change I reckon.

Where we going to be in 10 more years?


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## moosenoose (Dec 7, 2007)

johnbowemonie said:


> I should further add that with the amount of destruction to vegetation being done in my shire, is nothing to a person taking one snake from the wild. After all, most people got into reptiles by catching or keeping a bluetongue as kids.
> 
> Simone.



Quite frankly if we’re going to move with the times these developers need to be employing the services of a native wildlife relocator to do just that – relocate, not some hairy buffoon with a shovel jumping out of his Caterpillar to despatch something trying to escape!


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## OzGecko (Dec 7, 2007)

gillsy said:


> Wild caught animals are allowed to be kept if captured on a licenses.
> 
> These licenses are only avail in NT and WA.



These permits are also available in SA. I currently have one for Egernia inornata.


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## Retic (Dec 7, 2007)

I agree with those with a sensible point of view on this subject, someone keeping one or even a couple of wild caught snakes is hardly going to move the Earth off it's axis, mind your own business and worry about real problems. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to own legally WC snakes but because someone picks a snake up off the road and keeps it they are criminals. The only difference is that someone paid some money for a permit to pick them up off the road.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

Here's some food for thought:

Under s101(5)(c)(i) of the National Parks and Wildlife Act

'A person shall not be convicted of an offence arising under subsection (1) in respect og the possession of any protected fauna, if the person satisfies the court:

that the animal concerned was incapable of fending for itself in its natural habitat'

SO,

This means you are basically allowed to take albino's from the wild legally because they are known to be unable to fend for themselves??

But..

You need to notify the Director-General and wait for his decision on what to do with the animal... Which meas SR gets it hahaha


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## Bouncer (Dec 7, 2007)

Who says they are picking them up from the road? What about the ones who specifically go bush to find what they want to keep? On the road, in the bush, doesn't make it ok. 
I know of one fellow who hunts down gravid pythons, keeps them until they lay, then releases them, then spouts on about his fabulous breeding experience and everyone howls on about how wonderful he is. Pfffft.


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## moosenoose (Dec 7, 2007)

I laughed at one of my wife’s friends the other day when she was talking about the fact that I keep snakes and how it’s depleting wild stocks – this was before I explained mine were all captive bred and that there are regulations in place blah blah blah 

I said “so let me get this right, you’re out in the bush with a bunch of friends and a venomous snake crosses your path, and you….what??? Leap to its defence because 9/10 times it’ll get bludgeoned to death by the nearest he-man! P-l-e-a-s-e, gimme a break!” 

If these animals are not being shovelled they are being purposely driven over by idiots in cars – not accidentally, on PURPOSE! Too bad the only ones on here copping this evil eye treatment are the ones trying to look after them. I’d like to think there is a big difference with those with one or two wild-caught animals to others who are mass collecting and trying to profit out of it. 

I’m personally all for captive bred – I don’t like the idea of taking something out of its natural habitat. I mean, they like all the ticks, wild animals, drought, shovels, cars, feral cats……..:lol: :lol: Don’t they????  (that last part is meant to be a joke )


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## caustichumor (Dec 7, 2007)

I don't agree with anyone keeping wild reps, at least with the legal WC animals they are permited and the numbers taken are allocated. (And I think that the occasional fresh blood into the hobby's genepool can't hurt) however If everyone "rescues" an animal that get's too close to the road and that "rescue" involves taking it home putting it into an enclosure for the remainder of it's life and denying it the chance to reproduce with other wild animals, then you may as well run it over or give it the one shovel salute. because it's not the animals welfare you really care about.....


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

" If everyone "rescues" an animal that get's too close to the road and that "rescue" involves taking it home putting it into an enclosure for the remainder of it's life and denying it the chance to reproduce with other wild animals, then you may as well run it over or give it the one shovel salute. because it's not the animals welfare you really care about....."

Don't agree there. The difference is if it is taken off the road, and taken home or whatever, it is the opposite of giving it the 'one shovel salute'. You have given it a life, albeit in a wooden box maybe, but its better than guts splattered on the road IMO.

Sure you denied it a chance to reproduce with other 'wild' animals, but the car that was about to run it over would have done the same thing.

At least you could get him/her a root albeit with a captive bred OR another wild caught.

I am not condoning it at all, but I think an alive snake is better than a dead one, in most circumstances anyway.


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## Retic (Dec 7, 2007)

Moose :lol: Yeah let them take their chances I reckon.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

At the end of the day, your kidding yourselves if you think that half the Jungles owned in Nth QLD aren't wild caught..


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Dec 7, 2007)

> Who says they are picking them up from the road? What about the ones who specifically go bush to find what they want to keep? On the road, in the bush, doesn't make it ok.
> I know of one fellow who hunts down gravid pythons, keeps them until they lay, then releases them, then spouts on about his fabulous breeding experience and everyone howls on about how wonderful he is. Pfffft.


This happens to often, add gravid monitors to,
It's one of the worst types of poaching.


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## Bouncer (Dec 7, 2007)

We've moved snakes away from the side of the road many a time. Fine, give them a chance, it doesn't mean it's ok to take it home and keep it. Is everyone forgetting that it's illegal? I'm gobsmacked that some people on here are saying it's ok.


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## nuthn2do (Dec 7, 2007)

Bouncer said:


> We've moved snakes away from the side of the road many a time. Fine, give them a chance, it doesn't mean it's ok to take it home and keep it. Is everyone forgetting that it's illegal? I'm gobsmacked that some people on here are saying it's ok.


You moved it away from the road? What an interesting concept


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## Colin (Dec 7, 2007)

pugsly said:


> Here's some food for thought:
> 
> Under s101(5)(c)(i) of the National Parks and Wildlife Act
> 
> ...




Tell us what you really think steve  the SR has had some pointed comments made about it in this and other threads lately I've noticed.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

I've got nothing against them at all. Was a tongue in cheek comment lol.

I don't mind if John gets them, means I will get them sooner, and cheaper! hehe

Bouncer, I am not saying its ok, Im saying I don't have a problem with it. Fine line though... lol


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## firedragon (Dec 7, 2007)

mickydrippin said:


> if you know some is getting wild caught reptiles should you report them or name and shame them on here


 
If it is something they do alot then i'd probably report them, if it's only once i'd let them know it's illegal and the choice is then there's to let it go or not, if they don't let it go and look after it properly and it never happens again i'd probably just keep my mouth shut... For some, chances are the novelty will ware off and they'll eventually let it go anyway... And if they keep it atleast it's still alive. And if it was someone who caught a wild one breed it with one of there's and let it go again, meh it's free again. But someone catching gravid reps and keeping the bubs i'd speak up and do something..


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## caustichumor (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah firedragon maybe it's free again, and it has taken any exotic disease with it back into the wild.


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## BIG RYANO (Dec 7, 2007)

johnbowemonie said:


> I think you should mind your own frigging business for starters. I do not do it personally, but i do not hold it against someone for a pulling a snake off the road and keeping it. After all the animals that get deliberately shovelled, run over, shot etc etc one person picking up a pretty little carpet python off the road is nothing in the overall scheme of things.
> 
> However, i don't like knowing of people raping the bush, taking heaps of animals then flogging off all the animals for their own financial gain. If its on the road its fair game.
> 
> Simone.


Spot on Simone.


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## caustichumor (Dec 7, 2007)

If it's on the road it's fair game, Wow, I was under the impression that most people who kept native australian animals as pets, actually cared about the conservation of our unique species. The impression I am getting from a lot of members is whatever you can get away with go for it! Taking a healthy animal from the wild is wrong, plain and simple. I am not talking about the law, I am talking about our native stocks of animals. I don't want to hear 1 snake won't make a difference in the scheme of things, 50000 people can all say the same thing to justify their actions, and that's 50000 less animals in the wild. With the pressures already on our natives (introduced predators, venomous toads, and don't forget the roads with all their "fair game")
Moving an animal from the road into a safer area is helping the animal, taking the animal is helping yourself.
That's my rant, now I'm off to hug a tree....


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

PMSL. 

Fair enough mate, everyone can have there own opinion. Mine's just better..

HAHAH Kidding!!


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## MannyM (Dec 7, 2007)

Ultimately we all know it's illegal to just grab an animal from the wild and confine it to captivity. That being said, we are not all people, so what we should do as advocates of these animals, is try to inform those around us. If you know someone who has a wild caught reptile, the best that you can do is inform them that they actually need a licence for the reptile. If they still don't want to release it, the best you can then do is try to keep them educated on the well being of the animal, and how to properly look after it.

In my opinion, NPWS or WIRES should only be called in if the well being of the animal is at risk. If you've tried to educate these people, and if they still keep the animal in poor conditions, then a call is warranted. Other than that, you may just be getting these people into trouble without them even really knowing why.

I know that I had no idea that licencing even existed before I got into the 'hobby', and many others won't also. Just keep that in mind.


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## firedragon (Dec 7, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> Yeah firedragon maybe it's free again, and it has taken any exotic disease with it back into the wild.


 
I am still yet not very knowledgable, but can they get exotic diseases if no other captive snake is around, cause if they can, then I would have a different opinion.. And what if you know your snakes are healthy and have no diseases..

As i said i'm still learning, so the other opinion is based on what little i know now, with more knowledge opinions change.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

It can't get a desease if you have no other reptiles. It can probably get mites etc from bad husbandry etc.

There probably isn't any way you can know 100% you have 100% healthy snakes either. Many deseases take months to show symptoms, by then its too late.


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

pugsly said:


> It can't get a desease if you have no other reptiles. It can probably get mites etc from bad husbandry etc.
> 
> There probably isn't any way you can know 100% you have 100% healthy snakes either. Many deseases take months to show symptoms, by then its too late.



Not having a go at you, pugsly, but how could an animal get mites from bad husbandry? :?


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## firedragon (Dec 7, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> If it's on the road it's fair game, Wow, I was under the impression that most people who kept native australian animals as pets, actually cared about the conservation of our unique species. The impression I am getting from a lot of members is whatever you can get away with go for it! Taking a healthy animal from the wild is wrong, plain and simple. I am not talking about the law, I am talking about our native stocks of animals. I don't want to hear 1 snake won't make a difference in the scheme of things, 50000 people can all say the same thing to justify their actions, and that's 50000 less animals in the wild. With the pressures already on our natives (introduced predators, venomous toads, and don't forget the roads with all their "fair game")
> Moving an animal from the road into a safer area is helping the animal, taking the animal is helping yourself.
> That's my rant, now I'm off to hug a tree....


 
I dont think it's about "whatever you can get away with go for it".... I would *never* do it myself. Ok it's illegal, the reality is it's always gonna happen no matter what is done, so I think it has more to do with picking your battles.. Everyone has their own view about it and fully entitled to that view, and should not be "flamed" for it.


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## Rocket (Dec 7, 2007)

gillsy said:


> Wild caught animals are allowed to be kept if captured on a licenses.
> 
> These licenses are only avail in NT and WA.
> 
> ...



Add SA to that aswell gillsy.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

aspedites - they come in through unclean cages. i.e people not cleaning out crap, cleaning urine etc etc, not to mention off other things, a lot of wild caughts already come free with mites anyway!


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## firedragon (Dec 7, 2007)

So why is it ok in some states and not in others, you would think if it was a "keeping the ballance in nature" issue it woul be illegal everywhere


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## caustichumor (Dec 7, 2007)

Well I was merely stating my "opinion", The only flaming going on is from the flaming idiots...


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

pugsly said:


> aspedites - they come in through unclean cages. i.e people not cleaning out crap, cleaning urine etc etc, not to mention off other things, a lot of wild caughts already come free with mites anyway!



Mmm. Wouldn't they only be present in enclosures where other reptiles which had mites, were housed? Or at least in enclosures that were in close proximity to animals which had mites.

They don't just spontaneously appear in enclosures because you don't clean them...... or not to my--admittedly limited--knowledge anyway.


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

You would be surprised aspedites.

They certainly do, they can come from anywhere, including live mice/rats.

I have seen them in collections with only 1 animal on many occassions actually.


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

Fair enough, pugsly. I've never heard of that before and I find that both surprising and interesting.

Learn something new every day, huh?


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## firedragon (Dec 7, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> Well I was merely stating my "opinion", The only flaming going on is from the flaming idiots...


 
Sorry, bad wording on my part, i wasn't targeting you regarding flaming and yes your opinion is just as valid.. I really only wanted to quote part of that text (the part about what you can get away with go for it) but i dont know how so i had to just quote the whole msg


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## herptrader (Dec 7, 2007)

Reptile mites cannot live on rodents or other mammals - though they can hitch a ride. They need a reptile host to reproduce.

Sensible quarantine *will* keep mites out of your collection (independent of hygiene). Sensible quarantine includes when you visit other collections, including pet shops.


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

That's what I thought, herptrader


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

I can show you photos of mites on babie rodents mate. I was surprised myself.

Obviously they aren't 'reptile' mites, but that's how they got onto the snake..


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## Trouble (Dec 7, 2007)

MannyM said:


> Ultimately we all know it's illegal to just grab an animal from the wild and confine it to captivity.
> 
> Well I thought I should just add my 2 cents worth
> Unfortunately, there are a few species we _can _take from the wild and keep. Now please, before you get up me and say these are wrong, I learnt this from Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary, they run herpitology courses down there.
> ...


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

Trouble, I don't think that's the case any more. I know it used to be the case before the new laws were brought in a few years ago, but I believe it changed then. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

If I'm correct, in the new legislation it now classes everything that is not a restricted reptile or an international reptile as a recreational reptile, and for those you need a recreational wildlife permit (and you can't catch things on a rec permit).

There were some additional things to note under the old legislation anyway, such as the fact that animals could not be taken out of their "normal range" and any progeny had to be released in the area where the animal was captured. There were probably even more conditions too!


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## herptrader (Dec 7, 2007)

pugsly said:


> I can show you photos of mites on babie rodents mate. I was surprised myself.
> 
> Obviously they aren't 'reptile' mites, but that's how they got onto the snake..



I wouldn't worry about non reptile mites on my reptiles... they won't hang around for long.

I wouldn't even worry about human mites such as head lice and the body louse.


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## Trouble (Dec 7, 2007)

aspidites, I only did this course 2weeks ago, the booklet says "they owner must not sell or make any profit from the animal (e.g. you cant not mate two wild cought specimens and then make profit from the babies)" nor can they take more than two wild cought animals

p.s. sorry forgot how to spell lol


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## pugsly (Dec 7, 2007)

That certainly is NOT the law for the rest of Australia... don't know what you QLDers are on lol


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

Weird! I can't find anything in the new legislation exempting animals, like there was in the old.

As I said though, I could be wrong. Maybe I am


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## Trouble (Dec 7, 2007)

well, thats what I was taught, so don't get up me:twisted:


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## Bouncer (Dec 7, 2007)

Thats incorrect Trouble, and I'm not getting up you  I'd contact EPA and ask for yourself, then contact Currumbin and let them know what you find out.


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

Trouble said:


> well, thats what I was taught, so don't get up me:twisted:



I just got off the phone to the EPA, and they advised me that this exemption is still in effect, but ONLY for exempt amphibians, not reptiles.

I've also let them know that Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary is advising people of this old legislation erroneously, and they have told me they will chase that up.


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## Trouble (Dec 7, 2007)

ah ok thanks for that


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## scorps (Dec 7, 2007)

yeah i think if beardies wherre aloud to be cought thier wouldnt be many left in the wild


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## slacker (Dec 7, 2007)

scorps said:


> yeah i think if beardies wherre aloud to be cought thier wouldnt be many left in the wild



It was only a couple of years ago that you COULD keep them, scorps. But you couldn't breed them with your own animals (by the book, anyway) and there was restrictions on it.

I used to catch 'em all the time as a kid. Always let them go within a couple of weeks though, even though I technically could have kept them.

I do find it interesting that there's still amphibians you can do this with, but no longer any reptiles. I got the impression from the EPA that they abolished it because too many people were using it as a way to get around proper licensing--whether they were concerned about revenue or the actual wildlife, who knows.


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## Wild~Touch (Dec 8, 2007)

pugsly said:


> That certainly is NOT the law for the rest of Australia... don't know what you QLDers are on lol



eerr..ummm...(cough cough).. that's not nice Pugsly 

Queenslanders are the most happy easy going laid back people on the planet IMO ..


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## book (Dec 8, 2007)

I am new to reptile keeping. In fact I don't have any yet but got my licence a few months back. 
I used to catch and release garden skinks and caught and kept a Blue Tougne over one summer holiday as a kid when I lived in Victoria.
I moved to Queensland 6 years ago and have watched as the population of Eastern Water Skinks have increase in numbers in my back yard, favouring our fish pond. 
When I descided to research the best way to keep these reptiles as pets I discoverd I needed a licence. 
I also came up with some old information on the net and in books mentioning licences to catch them. I ended up phoning the EPA to find out what was current.
They said (Queensland) that the days of catching any reptiles where gone and the only option was to get a licence and get them from breeders.
I am still waiting to get my first Water Skinks after finding out how few legal supplies there are.

If someone has illegally caught reptiles, I would let them know it is not legal any more - they may not know. 
Not evil, just ignorant.
I didn't know and I know many people who do not keep reptiles who where also suprised by this.


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## Tirilia (Dec 9, 2007)

Its actually amazing how often people assume you just caught your reptile from the wild and decided to keep it.

I take my baby bluey out for quick walks (eg meeting someone at the train station, grabbing a dvd etc) and the number of people who Oooh and Ahhh over him, are about equal to the number of people who have asked "Where did you find him?" "How long did it take you to catch him?". 

Its amazing the number of people who are completely unaware that you actually NEED a license to keep reptiles. Aside from that, there are several shops here in Brisbane who blatantly advertise "Reptiles for sale! No License required!" and thats in the yellow pages and on their websites! 

If the EPA is really keen on people sticking to the laws, they either need to actually Look for blatant offenders, or they need licensed keepers to help.

However, if the non licensed keepers are taking really good care of their reptiles, I dont see why they are much different from those who do have a license.

After all, a License does not a good keeper make. Ive heard dozens of horror stories of keepers who didnt have the faintest clue how to take care of their reptile, and eventually brought them back to the shops in horrid conditions (bone deformities, lost limbs etc). Thankfully some of those people had their licenses revoked... but that doesnt stop them getting reptiles in the future from sellers who dont care about licenses

I guess what Im saying is its kind of hard to judge..


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## moosenoose (Dec 9, 2007)

What saddens me is walking into another pet shop yesterday and seeing a store packed full of people who were buying fish on one side, but also banging on the glass where they kept the reptiles on the other. Unless they have a designated "reptile zone" I don't think they should be selling them! JMO


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## mrmikk (Dec 9, 2007)

BIG RYANO said:


> I'd like to see how many people would knock back a green python on paper for say $500 that they knew was collected from the wild. Not many. All the hypocrites will no doubt start posting saying no way. But i dont believe it for a second.


 
Even more reason to drop that sort of person in it. If someone offered me a GTP for a ridiculous price that pointed toward it being a WC, let's just say, my anger would became rather elevated!


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## mrmikk (Dec 9, 2007)

Tirilia said:


> After all, a License does not a good keeper make.


 
One thing a license requirement does eliminate is the goose who walks into a pet shop and thinks it would be impressive to buy a snake for no other reason than an ego grooming one. When this type of fool is then told they need to complete paper work, pay a fee etc..., hopefully their spur of the moment desire cools and they don't follow through with it.

I agree though the licensing conditions do need to be backed up with a little more work on behalf of the EPA in QLD to enforce the legislation surrounding it.


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## stencorp69 (Dec 9, 2007)

johnbowemonie said:


> I think you should mind your own frigging business for starters. I do not do it personally, but i do not hold it against someone for a pulling a snake off the road and keeping it. After all the animals that get deliberately shovelled, run over, shot etc etc one person picking up a pretty little carpet python off the road is nothing in the overall scheme of things.
> 
> However, i don't like knowing of people raping the bush, taking heaps of animals then flogging off all the animals for their own financial gain. If its on the road its fair game.
> 
> Simone.


 
Agreed - Its people who kept reptiles "illegally" years ago that allows us to have a legal hobby now - the "eco-nazis" and wildlife authorities should worry more about the average "joe" who thinks its a great idea to kill reptiles than the hobbist who for the most part is interested in learning more about reptiles. Ironic isn't it that its not illegal to run over a snake on the road but it is illegal to remove it from the road and keep it.


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## stencorp69 (Dec 9, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> I don't agree with anyone keeping wild reps, at least with the legal WC animals they are permited and the numbers taken are allocated.


 
Why? What's the difference?


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## stencorp69 (Dec 9, 2007)

pugsly said:


> " If everyone "rescues" an animal that get's too close to the road and that "rescue" involves taking it home putting it into an enclosure for the remainder of it's life and denying it the chance to reproduce with other wild animals, then you may as well run it over or give it the one shovel salute. because it's not the animals welfare you really care about....."


 
Silly arguement - you only need to consider the last 15 year of australia herpetology to see the huge advances in our knowledge since keeping has been legalised. So there is a huge benefit over keeping reptiles in enclosures over them getting run over.... or maybe I got your arguement wrong - are you saying we should shovel them as this is prefered to them getting run over? It more humane? pleeease


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## stencorp69 (Dec 9, 2007)

caustichumor said:


> That's my rant, now I'm off to hug a tree....


 
Hopefully a branch falls on your head and knows some sense in to you - Just because the system makes it illegal doesn't mean that its correct, wild taking has a minor impact on the environment when all other man made impact is taken in to consideration. 

Aboriginies couldn't vote 40 years ago didn't make it correct


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## Jonno from ERD (Dec 9, 2007)

There is a big difference between someone taking the odd animal from the wild, and someone raping the bush with no regard for the environment or the animals they catch. Harvesting animals from decent habitat will have no effect on the population, it is when people start getting greedy that problems arise. Look at the drama's in the Wheatbelt of WA, where collectors have gone through with jimmy bars and wrecked several rock outcrops. Here in QLD, places like Girraween National Park are also partially destroyed. Unfortunately, like most things, a few bad apples spoil it. 

There are far bigger threats to Australian native wildlife then a reptile keeper pinching a snake or two - if the government would invest all the licencing funding and time into feral animal management, it would save millions more animals. 

At the end of the day though, it IS illegal, and the vast majority of species are available in captivity anyway.


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## warren63 (Dec 9, 2007)

Got to agree with a few comments here thats its generally assumed by the unknowing general public that most herps are wild caught. Had a friend who suggested i keep a few of the skinks running around in their back yard and declined saying that it is illegal and they didnt understand why its necessary to have a license for a species roaming thier backyard and safely believe there is a lot of people with the same opinion.


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## Clairebear (Dec 9, 2007)

With SO many available captive bred, by breeders who work hard to successfully breed their animals, what's the point in taking them from the wild unless it's cause you want to avoid paying for them or bothering with a license. It's for your own benefit not the snakes. And yes they were all originally wild caught but these days most species just don't need to be...

I wouldn't dob someone in, but i think some people are arrogant enough to think they are above the law and while captive bred animals for most species are so readibly attainable what's the point of taking them out.

JMO like most of you have put in so far.


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## Shayne (Jan 27, 2008)

*Licences*

I will admit that I have kept 2 wild caught Jackeys and have no licence. I did this because my 4 year old son has a natural fasentation for reptiles and I wanted to fuel his interest in these things instead of computer games, but I also wanted too see how long the novely lasted before paying out BIG bucks for licences and setups. I had enough gear from keeping tropical fish to set us up with a basic unit to keep the two Jackey Lizaeds happy. My son has loved every minute of it, holding them, catching varius insects in garden keeping him occupied for hours and through this site, google searches and pet shops we have learnt alot about keeping these guys and ensuring they get the greatest care. We have since let them go right back were we got them. They were happy, healthy and now I think we are ready to do all the work you guys have put in, licences and all. It will be money well spent and my son will grow to be a fine addition to the many keepers of reptiles and the like in the future.

The other day I was at a family picknick in my bro inlaws house. The dog was going off its head about something. Next minute I find it has got hold of a grand old blue tounge. I gave the dog what for and put the blue tounge in its final resting place, my son and I were greatly saddned and I cant count how many birds I have seen his cat devour over the years. So after all that whats my point ? Really I dont know, but I'm sure you guys will debate my situation.


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