# Having/Not having Kids



## saximus (Apr 12, 2011)

A couple of different posts have got me thinking this might be a good place to ask. 
The last few years, it seems the older I get the less I want them. I know I'm only "young" but I know myself and I think I wouldn't be a good parent. I'm way too selfish, I enjoy being able to do what I want whenever I want and I'm a dirty capitalist who wants to have as much money as possible to spend on myself whenever I want. 
I love my reptiles like children specifically because they don't beg for anything (one of my strange pet hates about children and other types of pet), they don't make noise and they live contented lives so long as I provide the basic requirements. After owning reps I can't imagine having to look after a "real" pet again let alone raising a whole person.
This may be a turning point in my six year relationship with my girl and I need to know if I'm making an intelligent decision given the evidence I have now.
So basically I just want to know how many of you have chosen not to have kids and do you regret this decision?


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## kawasakirider (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't think if you had the kids, you'd regret it. If you didn't have them, it may be something you regret down the track when it's too late. If the mrs wants them, you should both have a long chat about it. No point deciding you want different things, and then 12 months later realising you wouldn't mind kids and you've missed your chance with that one girl.


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## spilota_variegata (Apr 12, 2011)

This can be a real emotive subject... Probably best left alone. My only comment is that it's a personal choice.

Good luck with whatever decision you eventually make


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## vampstorso (Apr 12, 2011)

Yeah I think having your own children would be a different feeling Saximus...
e.g. you'd have some control over their neediness (by not making them a spoilt brat!)

and in essence when they mess up you'd handle it differently to someone elses kids.

and unlike pets, kids grow out of needing you, but like pets they wont beg if you don't give in! 


I just think gauging your feelings towards children off experience with other kids and pets probably isn't the way to go


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## kawasakirider (Apr 12, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> Yeah I think having your own children would be a different feeling Saximus...
> e.g. you'd have some control over their neediness (by not making them a spoilt brat!)
> 
> and in essence when they mess up you'd handle it differently to someone elses kids.
> ...



Could have the complete opposite effect, too... He could feel OK with other peoples kids, and then realise he hates having them because he didn't know what it was like to put up with them 24/7 like other peoples kids.

My nephew wears my patience within 30 minutes if he's in a hyper mood.


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## Nathan_T (Apr 12, 2011)

My wife and I both came to the decision independently to not have kids, and it's working well so far. Given that I'm open about this fact to my parents/grandparents, I've copped every argument that you can think of. My philosophy is that it's flat out wrong to have a child on the basis that "once you have em you'll love them", as that's not an assumption you should risk a child's life over. 

That said, you definitely need to have the discussion with your partner sooner rather than later. And to be honest, this is a deal breaker for you guys if you disagree. At the end of the day though, it's better in the long run. Convincing someone to see your side of this thing is only going to destroy a relationship eventually, so if your partner is dead set on kids you should be willing to allow her to achieve that in life. That said, it's the modern age so there's no guarantee she doesn't feel the same as you


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## Audio_anthrax (Apr 12, 2011)

U saythat but then when it happens ur whole attitude towards it changes, sounds stupid but its just one of those things that happens...


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## vampstorso (Apr 12, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Could have the complete opposite effect, too... He could feel OK with other peoples kids, and then realise he hates having them because he didn't know what it was like to put up with them 24/7 like other peoples kids.
> 
> My nephew wears my patience within 30 minutes if he's in a hyper mood.




never said it'd be all fun and games and they'd never annoy him.


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## saximus (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks for the quick replies guys. Nathan your post pretty much nailed it and I agree entirely with your first point. I have heard the "it all changes as soon as you see them" theory on a number of occasions and I think I know myself well enough to know that won't be the case. Or if it is, I will end up like my own father and stop caring at a certain point.
We have spoken about it and we definitely disagree. It didn't end in a fight but it ended in a stalemate which just means it will need to come up again in the future. I want her to be happy and if staying with me means her having to sacrifice that happiness that isn't gonna fly with me.
Anyway I think I've already gotten too far into my personal life. I'll be interested to hear from others like Nathan (or Red-Ink if you're out there ) who have actually made this decision


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## kawasakirider (Apr 12, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> never said it'd be all fun and games and they'd never annoy him.


 
Yeah I know that, anything's possible.

I do know one parent that "loves" his kids but doesn't do anything for them. It's my sisters partner. They have 3 kids, the eldest boy is 9, the daughter 7 and the youngest one 3. In their whole lives their dad has never been to any of the eldest two's sporting activities. My sister is a trooper, she works and just graduated uni and wipes his *** while he does nothing at home. My dad minds the kids and takes them to footy games and dance practice.

My nephew questioned his dads love for him infront of his father and I. It was really sad... So it's a big decision, and the repurcussions are very real if you're not into it.


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## sookie (Apr 13, 2011)

I fell pregnant,was never going to,out of six kids everyone said i would be the one who would never have kids.don't like the screaming,pooping snotballs.Well decided if it was there it was going to happen.
His natural father didn't want him from day one,wanted me to abort.He was super selfish,no discussion,do it.Well i didn't.I am proud of my 13n yr old son.He has buried his stepdad who loved him like he was his own.Grown up in turmoil watching mum do it hard,working when he could.Now his new stepdad is a good bloke.
I have been thru lows and highs and there has always been a cuddle when i need it,he does funny stuff.Yep its hard work and a fulltime job that doesn't end ever really,but very rewarding.


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## Karly (Apr 13, 2011)

My fiance and I have decided not to have children. When I picture my future, I just don't see children as a part of it. I'm much more interested in pursuing other goals. I think if you are going to bring a child into the world, it should be because you really WANT it, not just because it's something people expect from you.... like you get married and have children... it's just what happens. 

I've been ridiculed by so many people for my decision who can't understand how a FEMALE doesn't have that maternal instict. I just don't have it! I never have!

I get what you mean by saying you are too selfish to have children, I feel exactly the same way, but in a way that makes you very selfLESS for being able to admit to that and not caving into social pressure and having a child that you don't really want.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

being a parent is the hardest job on earth. its full time and full on. sometimes things change and u may find yourself wondering, what if there was a little saximus, but while you feel like you do, then as said above talk to your girl and let your feelings be known.

i'd be lying if i said there was no days that i didnt wish i was still free to do what i want, when i wanted to (not when some little person wanted it done....) but a hug and a kiss can make nearly everything better.

Saying that, i will happily throttle the next person who asks when i am having another.


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## Sock Puppet (Apr 13, 2011)

Neither my wife or I ever felt that parental instinct or urge, so never had any desire to have children of our own. We discussed this early in our relationship once we realised we were serious & it could lead to marriage (which it did). It has been the right decision for us, & neither of us have any regrets not having kids, even now after 10years of marriage & me hitting middle age, no regrets at all. 

Over the years we've been called many things due to our decision, & have copped the endless "when will you have kids" & "don't say that, you'll have them one day", "never say never" remarks, & many more. That's ok, those close to us (& are the only ones whose opinions matter to us) have accepted it & no longer hassle us (which was really only our parents), & none of them ever considered us weirdos or whatever for not having any intention of popping out some progeny. Occasionally we come across people who applaud us for sticking to our guns & not following "social norms" (for want of a better phrase). 

It's a big decision, so whatever way you choose, make sure you are BOTH 100% on board with it, & get it discussed early on, otherwise it'll inevitably lead to tension & dispute down the track.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm here mate lol...

Yeah pretty easy for me mate and as I said all ready I have low tolerance for neonates, hatchlings and Juvies. I'm not saying that I'm not good with them in fact I find it quite the opposite. Hatchlings seem to be drawn to me and are quite content and happy in my pressence. I just don't think I should breed for the sake of breeding. There are a lot of things to consider mate.. some people fear that they may want them later on down the track and that's a very valid reason. So it's something that you really need to consider. I find a good deterant from kids (as I do get clucky from time to time) is shopping in Safeway or Coles on a Saturday morning, best form of conrtaception IMO (or better yet a Maccas kids party). I have friends my age that have kids and my sister is incubating her first but for me still nothing.. just don't have that paternal instinct I guess.

Innoculate the kid or go to Madagascar
GTP or 1 term tuition
New shoes or a new enclosure
crying in the middle of the night or the sounds of cricket chirping
Talking back or the odd tag here and there
Tied down to the hatchling or freedom to do what I want at anytime
(all the above are selfish reasons for myself but I can afford to be selfish as I don't have hatchlings to take care of)


The most important thing mate is to make sure that you and your partner are OK in the decision which ever way you go. Breeding for the sake of breeding is not a good enough reason. Hoping you'll like it if you do is not a good enough reason as you can't on sell your hatchling if things don't work out. It's like a tattoo once your in your in for life (though you can get laser for tatts these days, if there was ones for hatchlings I may give breeding a go lol)

If your just clucky for a kid but not ready for the other stuff babysit somebody else's you can give them back when you get sick of them (or get a cat or dog). Plenty of responsibility having a kid mate and I commend all parents out there as it's not the easiest thing to do...

Oh my parents and in laws refer to the pets as grandkids.. lucky I guess that their understanding of our decision not to breed lol.


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot for all the comments guys and girls. I was beginning to think I'd gotten too personal and nobody was gonna touch the thread. 
It's good to hear from both sides and for anyone else reading this I'm not asking for someone else to make the decision for me, I just want examples and opinions from personal experience. So far the child-free people have confirmed exactly what I had expected. 
I agree with Red that you people who made the decision to breed should be commended and you are strong people for having done so. So far I've just seen no internal evidence that it would be a good idea for me.


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## Snakeluvver2 (Apr 13, 2011)

> It didn't end in a fight but it ended in a stalemate which just means it will need to come up again in the future.



I know that feeling hahaha. 
I personally hate kids but I'm quite good with them and I've decided not to have kids untill I'v knocked a few things off my bucket list and that my life and future career is all good. 
Until then, it's a party


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Haha yeah I'm great with the ones who know me but generally stranger kids seem scared of the dreads and piercings. On numerous occasions I've heard "Mum why does that man have such long hair like a girl?"
I just can't imagine enjoying a life where I couldn't has as many herps as I want or couldn't go diving when/where I want. Then there is the constant fear of screwing up this person's life and have them hate me or not be able to achieve whatever they are capable of because of something I did/didn't do.


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## Fantazmic (Apr 13, 2011)

I dont like other peoples children.......they annoy me.....but I like my own.....I have liked them at different times more than others if I am brutally honest....I think I like them a lot now....I started liking them when they hit mid teens (I have two boys) and now they are growing up they are becoming more and more interesting.

I have to say I could always change my own sons nappies....never bothered me...but I dont want to change anyone elses childs nappy if that makes sense.

It was very hard at the time.....especially financially...but hubby and I are glad we did it.

Remember your girlies call of nature will be stronger than yours as she has a limited time of fertility 

We are now thinking that when the time comes we are going to really enjoy having grandchildren !!


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## shellfisch (Apr 13, 2011)

Sock Puppet said:


> Occasionally we come across people who applaud us for sticking to our guns & not following "social norms" .



While I have four beautiful, talented, well-adjusted, grown kids and can't imagine my life if I hadn't had them, I TOTALLY admire anyone who knows that children are not for them, and didn't succumb to the pressures to produce any to make other people happy.


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## Chris1 (Apr 13, 2011)

your thoughts are exactly the same as mine,...but with me being female and turning 37 this year,..well, im running out of decision making time,..!
(but i really cant see myself liking kids, even if theyre my own!!)

with u being male and only 26 you have alot more years of fertillity and potential to be a dad,..so if youre not ready, it will only add stress to ur relationship.
you have years left to change your mind, then again, if i could be the dad not the mum i think id be a bit keenner, dads seem to get all the good bits and still have a life while mums get stuck looking after the buggers. 


yep, im way too selfish, i think kids would be better off without me!


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## Crystal..Discus (Apr 13, 2011)

The only way I'm ever having kids is if it's an accident. Even then, there's a very slim chance I'd carry to term. My parents were selfish, and had kids knowing full well that we (my siblings and I) would be carriers of some really nasty hereditary diseases. I find no reason to bring a child into the world who's just going to die young, or not realize they're living at all. (I consider it extremely selfish on the parents' part.)

When I first started going out with the man I am now, we discussed the issue and decided absolutely no children, which suits both of us perfectly. Besides, I have a goddaughter and that's good enough for me.:lol:


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Yeah Chris a lot of the studies I've read, although they make relatively universal points, seem to be done for the female perspective almost like saying guys have it easy with or without kids.


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## Colin (Apr 13, 2011)

Chris1 said:


> yep, im way too selfish



me too :lol: and I find children repugnant anyways


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## Karly (Apr 13, 2011)

Ha ha red ink your post is brilliant! Very clever I love it 
My colleague's wife has just had a baby. Couldn't care less about seeing photos or having cuddles, but another colleague had a python climbing her front door last night and I couldn't wait to see the pics today! 
Hmm... yep, I think I should stick to cold blooded babies....


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## Chris1 (Apr 13, 2011)

oh, i didnt mean it like that, more that guys dont have a time limit fertility wise, and having watched so many of my female friends have such a hard time dealing with their new lives,...while their guys are still at the pub every friday sat and sunday, work, drinks after work, etc, all that changes for them is less disposable income and something that looks happy to see them when they get home from work,...!!
alot of my female friends were so keen fro kids too,...and still had a hell of a time adjusting,...


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## damoztishfank (Apr 13, 2011)

Ok some of you know me some don't i am 27 and have had 2 kids, I do not that i regret them but now i have them i have found im not the father i feel i should be too them,.....I provide everything a parent should but at times......i dispise them it causes great drama with my parents and partner (i have a short fuse and no patience).....i love them and will always be there for them....but if i had the choice over things would be alot different!!!


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

Chris1 said:


> oh, i didnt mean it like that, more that guys dont have a time limit fertility wise, and having watched so many of my female friends have such a hard time dealing with their new lives,...while their guys are still at the pub every friday sat and sunday, work, drinks after work, etc, all that changes for them is less disposable income and something that looks happy to see them when they get home from work,...!!
> alot of my female friends were so keen fro kids too,...and still had a hell of a time adjusting,...



chris that is so so true. i went through/ am still going through the same thing, 2 yrs down the track. hubby can do as he pleases, but my life has changed totally.



damoztishfank said:


> Ok some of you know me some don't i am 27 and have had 2 kids, I do not that i regret them but now i have them i have found im not the father i feel i should be too them,.....I provide everything a parent should but at times......i dispise them it causes great drama with my parents and partner (i have a short fuse and no patience).....i love them and will always be there for them....but if i had the choice over things would be alot different!!!


 
i think everyone despises their kids at 1 time or the other hun. we all do the best we can.


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for the honesty Damo. This is exactly what I worry would happen.


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## damoztishfank (Apr 13, 2011)

Hey Sax, Don't get me wrong you may feel entirely different......just for a ****s and giggles..... got to bed at 11pm (replicating a time you would actually get a child to sleep)set you alarm for 3 times a night and each time it goes off......strip ya bed and remake it......and then set it once more for 5am and get up and dress yaself i.e (shower and clothes) then undress re-shower and re-dress( giving you an idea of dressing another person)...... this hopefully would give you an idea of the nightly chores a parent would do....

if you can do this easily for one night.......do it for a week if thats easy try a month..........

I have 3 kids and at times our kids will be sick,wet the bed or just wake up and not want to go back to sleep.......not to mention my son finds it amusing to poke me in the eyes at 5-6am to wake me up and scream i want breakfast.....


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## guzzo (Apr 13, 2011)

Hey Mate, I was like you....I had many crazy adventures and I was 38 when we had our boy ........the adventures cut back to almost non existant and i swapped my bow and arrows and fishing rod for a pack of nappies and some wipes.....

In that time I re discovered reptiles and re ignited my passion in this hobby...... I am 41 this year and he is almost 3 and guess what.....the adventures have started again but this time I have a little buddy...who knows my 4 snakes by name and loves going out in the boat. 

This year we will go camping and fishing again...no looking back.......It was very good for me and the two and a bit years have taught me a lot and i think I am a better person for it.....I sure as hell respect what my parents did for me a lot more now than two and a bit years ago.

Anyhow the Guzzo take on baby's .(only my opinion)...baby's are boring and demanding and sometimes smell.....but at about 18 mnths plus they are crazy fun....would not swap it ....

And for the 18 mnths when I was restricted I learnt that though I may not have control over how the wind blows I can adjust my sails.....

Besides Sax you are still young and the fact that you have not just rushed into it and have given this such thought makes me think you would probably make a great dad...all the best with whatever you decide.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

guzzo said:


> Hey Mate, I was like you....I had many crazy adventures and I was 38 when we had our boy ........the adventures cut back to almost non existant and i swapped my bow and arrows and fishing rod for a pack of nappies and some wipes.....
> 
> In that time I re discovered reptiles and re ignited my passion in this hobby...... I am 41 this year and he is almost 3 and guess what.....the adventures have started again but this time I have a little buddy...who knows my 4 snakes by name and loves going out in the boat.
> 
> ...


 
its beautiful to hear a father talking about his child like you do guzzo.


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## guzzo (Apr 13, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> its beautiful to hear a father talking about his child like you do guzzo.



Thanks, the other thing is that Christmas was starting to get dull but spending a Christmas eve with a small child and seeing the excitement in a kids face on Christmas morning is worth more that all the things I could ever by myself.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

so true! my 2 1/2 yr old is starting to get excited about easter and its awesome watching her!


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## fugawi (Apr 13, 2011)

Saximus...I don't know where you got the idea that life ends when you have a kid, in fact the complete opposite, life starts when you have a kid. I could write pages of stuff on how wonderous it is to be a parent but will stick with just your fears on being a parent.
Dreads and piercings...To your kid, you are just dad, they will probably ask why doesn't their friends dad have dreads and piercings, you are the normal one.
Herps....my son loves them and wants us to get more. Where are the restrictions?
Diving...Again, where are the restrictions? When they are old enough they can come with you.
All your fears are fears that every parent has. My parents weren't there for me but that means that I make a conscious effort to be there for MY child.
At the bottom you have a quote, "Knowledge- The one thing you can give away freely while still keeping for yourself", who better to give that knowledge but to your own child.
At the end of the day, it should be a decision between you and your partner, be totally honest with each other. Whatever decision you make doesn't have to be final, you can still have a kid within the next 20yrs or so. We live in a free country, it's a time of peace, there is no reason not to bring a child into this world. Only knowing you from your posts, I think you would make a great dad. Just remember ALL parents are scared and don't think they will be good parents and we all make mistakes. It's how we deal with them that makes us good parents.
Whatever decision you make, it will be the best decision for you and your partner right now, but don't wait till you are ready, you will never truly be ready.....no parent is.

Just thought I would give you the other side.


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## LippyM (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm 38 and have NEVER, not once, not even for a second wanted to have kids! Nor has my husband. We've been married nearly 20 years. 

I think if you're thinking about it means you haven't made up your mind yet. And if you don't out and out dislike kids then they'll probably be in your future. 

The fact thay you're considering it means you're open to the idea.
If you out and out didn't want them you'd know. You might change your mind in the future but for now you'd know now if you didn't want them.

On one hand you've got plenty of time but if your girl wants them then you have to be ready with a response!

Most people with kids will say it's great to have them and most people who voluntarily don't have them will say it's great not to have them.

I'm glad I've got the age where people don't tell me I'll change my mind.
I'd be a rich person if I had a buck for every time some smug so and so told me I'd change my mind


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

hey mate, you need to do what is best for you, nobody can sit here and say yes you need to have kids. because at the end of the day you know what is best for you, not me, not the guy down the street. i will say this though, life doesn't have to end because you have a kid, with an understanding partner you can work things out for your own personal time to do what you want to do! now i won't lie, i have issues with my family (father, and other relos) and yes it isn't always smooth sailing with my wife, but at the end of the day i have 2 little kids who love me no matter what. and no matter what is going on in life i love them more than anything, but this is the right thing for me, maybe not you. now while i have 2 kids to look after i still do archery occasionally, i still teach medieval sword fighting, i still do acting and i have time to do my photography. it can be daunting thinking before a kid arrives that now you have lost your freedom, but that is only the case if you let it be! you know how to contact me if you wanna discuss furthur. at the end of the day it is a big choice, but it is YOUR choice.


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## J-A-X (Apr 13, 2011)

In the end it will be up to you to decide, and you've got lots of threads to say ' I didn't want them but once they arrived........ ' 

If you do decide that kids aren't your cup of tea then stick to it. they're not for everyone and power to you for thinking ahead, and no one has the right to judge you for our decision. 

I have several friends who have made a choice to remain childless, it doesnt mean they are selfish or hate kids, they just prefer not to have 'live in' kids.


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## Tinky (Apr 13, 2011)

Love my kids.

Having said that the divorce proceedures would be a lot simpler without them.

Could never recomend marriage to a male.

The value of marriage is not that adults produce children, but that children produce adults – PETER DE VRIES


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Wow I go to lunch for an hour and come back to so much reading . Thank you all very much for taking the time to provide such well thought out responses. I love this community for allowing me access to so many different points of view and sources of experience. This is definitely not a decision I'm taking lightly and I guess like you all say, there's still time. It's just one of those things that's been playing on my mind since it came up and one that I felt I needed to seriously decide on before we consider taking the relationship to another level.


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## Megzz (Apr 13, 2011)

I wouldn't do it unless you want kids 100% ... It is a HUGE lifestyle change.


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## NotoriouS (Apr 13, 2011)

Hey mate, just wanted to give you my personal experience (not advising what you should/shouldn't do). 

I'm 25 and have a little girl. For me, she is the most precious treasure I have, there is nothing I wouldn't do for her. My life has change drastically since she was born. The day I brought her home, I sat up all ngiht and couldn't sleep because the 'responsibility' was sinking in.. I was responsible for a life now. I was scared throughout my wife's pregnancy that I wouldn't make a good father, that I was too careless, that I hadn't finished growing up myself! But here I am now, absolutely loving fatherhood. I still do everything I love and everything I used to do before I became a father. I take my little one out everyday after I get back home from work, read her books at night, and we sit and watch the football together. I still have time to pursue all my hobbies, go out with mates, workout, teach kickboxing, etc. And I can tell you one thing... no matter how bad my day is going, whatever crap I've had to put up with at work, arguments with the mrs, etc... just seeing my daughter's face smiling so brightly as I enter the door makes all my worries dissappear.

I hope that whatever decision you make, it works out best for you and your partner!


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## AshMan (Apr 13, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha yeah I'm great with the ones who know me but generally stranger kids seem scared of the dreads and piercings. On numerous occasions I've heard "Mum why does that man have such long hair like a girl?"



Haha, know how you feel buddy. A fairly distant relative who we see quite often has a little girl and she is afraid of me, she calls me the "man girl" to her mum haha. Also, i was out wearing one of my more explicit cannibal corpse t shirts recently and i noticed the amount of young children looking at it with horrified expressions lol.


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

my daughter when she was younger was scared of guys who didn't have long hair or goatees! few kids ask about the long hair but at my kids daycare most think i am an awesome dad, not only do we have a pet snake but they all think i am fun and i bring cool things for my kids show and tells. how many other dads dress up in full armour and do a talk on knights.


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## AirCooled (Apr 13, 2011)

Its the hardest decision YOU will have to make.Unfortunately in current times it comes down to 2 completely different lifestyles with different ups and downs.I love kids but have none and so glad that my Ex was desexed.


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## LullabyLizard (Apr 13, 2011)

I've always wanted kids  I've got a whole book of baby names that I love! I plan on having four or more.


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## mungus (Apr 13, 2011)

I dont have Kids..........
Wife is a school teacher and i think she see's enough of them at work.
I regret not having any though...........
1 of the very few regrets I have in life.


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## harley0402 (Apr 13, 2011)

Fantazmic said:


> I dont like other peoples children.......they annoy me.....but I like my own.....I have liked them at different times more than others if I am brutally honest....I think I like them a lot now....I started liking them when they hit mid teens (I have two boys) and now they are growing up they are becoming more and more interesting.
> 
> I have to say I could always change my own sons nappies....never bothered me...but I dont want to change anyone elses childs nappy if that makes sense.
> 
> ...



Your post is so true, for me, I feel the exact same way. I found it really hard at first with my daughter, as in i wasnt real maternal. It didnt just come to me like everybody says. I warmed up to her in a way if that makes sense. I wouldnt change anything now and myself and my partner are planning our second. Then i think that will be it. Fingers crossed i dont have twins or something lol. Having a baby is hard and is alot of work but we are a happy family. It is a big decision to have a baby and one that should be made sure about.


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Mungus you're the first one from that side of the argument with that point of view so thanks for adding that


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## Renenet (Apr 13, 2011)

Interesting question, Saximus, and some interesting points of view. Personally, the idea of having children horrifies me. I can only communicate with young children on their level for so long before repeatedly bashing my head against a wall seems like more fun. Not to mention that I've got a bucketload of hobbies and interests that I don't think I could push aside for a child. Children need to be wanted and loved, and I just don't think I can provide that; nor do I feel like I'm emotionally or psychologically ready to bring up a little person.

On the other hand, I have a friend who was like me and never wanted children. She changed her mind a few years ago and now has a three-year-old she adores. Having said that, there are parts of bringing up a toddler she doesn't care for that can be summarised as tantrums and domestic drudgery.

I've noticed that a couple of dads have said that they were able to keep up their hobbies and interests. I'd like to hear from some mums on this point. Since one of my fears is that a baby/child will drown my own life, I'm genuinely curious about this.


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

Renenet said:


> Interesting question, Saximus, and some interesting points of view. Personally, the idea of having children horrifies me. I can only communicate with young children on their level for so long before repeatedly bashing my head against a wall seems like more fun. Not to mention that I've got a bucketload of hobbies and interests that I don't think I could push aside for a child. Children need to be wanted and loved, and I just don't think I can provide that; nor do I feel like I'm emotionally or psychologically ready to bring up a little person.
> 
> On the other hand, I have a friend who was like me and never wanted children. She changed her mind a few years ago and now has a three-year-old she adores. Having said that, there are parts of bringing up a toddler she doesn't care for that can be summarised as tantrums and domestic drudgery.
> 
> I've noticed that a couple of dads have said that they were able to keep up their hobbies and interests. I'd like to hear from some mums on this point. Since one of my fears is that a baby/child will drown my own life, I'm genuinely curious about this.


 my wife goes to the gym everyday of the week, she stills gets to go out to nightclubs or movies etc etc. and i can tell you that our kids are not neglected.


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Yea Chris brought up a similar point earlier Renenet. Not saying anything about the guys here (I've actually met Fugawi and his son and I reckon Greg and Guzzo would make pretty awesome dads) but the stuff I've read says that most people fall into those "typical" gender roles even if they weren't like that before


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

Renenet said:


> Interesting question, Saximus, and some interesting points of view. Personally, the idea of having children horrifies me. I can only communicate with young children on their level for so long before repeatedly bashing my head against a wall seems like more fun. Not to mention that I've got a bucketload of hobbies and interests that I don't think I could push aside for a child. Children need to be wanted and loved, and I just don't think I can provide that; nor do I feel like I'm emotionally or psychologically ready to bring up a little person.
> 
> On the other hand, I have a friend who was like me and never wanted children. She changed her mind a few years ago and now has a three-year-old she adores. Having said that, there are parts of bringing up a toddler she doesn't care for that can be summarised as tantrums and domestic drudgery.
> 
> I've noticed that a couple of dads have said that they were able to keep up their hobbies and interests. I'd like to hear from some mums on this point. Since one of my fears is that a baby/child will drown my own life, I'm genuinely curious about this.


 
as a mum, you do seem to "sacrifice" more things than the man. (not that the following things are hobbies, but they are life...) I cant remember the last time i had a shower/bath by myself, when i went to the toilet alone. I get the rare night out, but hubby seems to get alot more. there are alot of other little things too, but at the end of the day, hearing your little one talk for the first time, seeing themwalk for the first time, kiss you, cuddle you, learn new things, all make it worth while. it is important that you try and retain some of "you" though. ask me on a really bad day with a hyper 2 year old and i will give you a totally different answer!!!!!


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> as a mum, you do seem to "sacrifice" more things than the man. (not that the following things are hobbies, but they are life...) I cant remember the last time i had a shower/bath by myself, when i went to the toilet alone. I get the rare night out, but hubby seems to get alot more. there are alot of other little things too, but at the end of the day, hearing your little one talk for the first time, seeing themwalk for the first time, kiss you, cuddle you, learn new things, all make it worth while. it is important that you try and retain some of "you" though. ask me on a really bad day with a hyper 2 year old and i will give you a totally different answer!!!!!


 i have to disagree here, sorry, because of my work conditions and those of my wife, i am more of the stay at home dad type of role. my wife gets alot more freedom to go out than i do. my daughter will quite often jump in the shower with me my son too! i do get what you are saying and i do agree, but i disagree that it is a woman only thing. i think it is more of a primary care giver thing!


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

hrafna said:


> i have to disagree here, sorry, because of my work conditions and those of my wife, i am more of the stay at home dad type of role. my wife gets alot more freedom to go out than i do. my daughter will quite often jump in the shower with me my son too! i do get what you are saying and i do agree, but i disagree that it is a woman only thing. i think it is more of a primary care giver thing!



that alone makes you the exception to the rule hun! i in no way want to take away from the job that you do by stating "as a mum" but as the stay at home parenmt, you know exactly what i mean!


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## Renenet (Apr 13, 2011)

hrafna said:


> i think it is more of a primary care giver thing!



Agreed. It seems like a woman-only thing because, for various reasons, it's often the woman who ends up being the primary care-giver. Because it would probably be the same for me, I have to take that into account.

Hey, Saximus, are you any clearer now than you were?


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Haha less clear if anything. Like I said I really appreciate all the input from both sides and I don't want someone to make the decision or me I just wanted experiences and opinions. So please keep going if you guys aren't over it yet.
I have one other question. For me, my intelligence is my only feature/trait that I can say I am proud of. It seems like if I were to create a little Saximus and screwed up somewhere along the line and didn't give it the best possible education I would feel guilty forever. I literally stay up at night thinking about my reps and rats and what I can do to better their lives. I can only imagine how much more this would be compounded with a person. Do you guys stress about what you're doing wrong/could be doing better in your kids' lives?
PS I'm not saying any of you are doing anything wrong but we could all be doing a better job somewhere, right?


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha less clear if anything. Like I said I really appreciate all the input from both sides and I don't want someone to make the decision or me I just wanted experiences and opinions. So please keep going if you guys aren't over it yet.
> I have one other question. For me, my intelligence is my only feature/trait that I can say I am proud of. It seems like if I were to create a little Saximus and screwed up somewhere along the line and didn't give it the best possible education I would feel guilty forever. I literally stay up at night thinking about my reps and rats and what I can do to better their lives. I can only imagine how much more this would be compounded with a person. Do you guys stress about what you're doing wrong/could be doing better in your kids' lives?
> PS I'm not saying any of you are doing anything wrong but we could all be doing a better job somewhere, right?


 
Saximus, i had to start taking sleepers cos i was thinking all night bout what i was doing right or wrong  . I worry that we dont have enough money to give Matilda everything i would like her to have. I worry that i am not disciplining her right. i worry bout all sorts of things. My mum, 32 years down the road, still stresses that she has done the wrong things and where she couldve done better. And yes you are right we could all be doing some things better. the trick is learning what to worry about! and to pick your battles. Worrying goes hand in hand with being a parent!

just hearing how much you think about things and think of your reps, it shows you are a caring person. Parenthood isnt something that you should enter lightly and obviously you arent.


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## hugsta (Apr 13, 2011)

saximus said:


> A couple of different posts have got me thinking this might be a good place to ask.
> The last few years, it seems the older I get the less I want them. I know I'm only "young" but I know myself and I think I wouldn't be a good parent. I'm way too selfish, I enjoy being able to do what I want whenever I want and I'm a dirty capitalist who wants to have as much money as possible to spend on myself whenever I want.
> I love my reptiles like children specifically because they don't beg for anything (one of my strange pet hates about children and other types of pet), they don't make noise and they live contented lives so long as I provide the basic requirements. After owning reps I can't imagine having to look after a "real" pet again let alone raising a whole person.
> This may be a turning point in my six year relationship with my girl and I need to know if I'm making an intelligent decision given the evidence I have now.
> So basically I just want to know how many of you have chosen not to have kids and do you regret this decision?


 
I haven't read any of this thread, can't really be bothered at the moment tbh....lol

I was very much like you saximus, never really wanted kids, but my wife did. I put it off for quite a few years until I decided I was being selfish. So we had 2 kids, and yes life does change, for the better. If I had my chance again I would have had kids earlier. They bring so much more to your life than you realise, and as much as they can be the biggest pain in your asss, they can be the funniest of people you have have ever met, completely innocent and untainted. To watch them grow and develop every day, to have them want to help when you are cleaning or feeding your animals along with anything and everything you do.....is just awesome. They bring back your child hood and give you excuses to do all the fun stuff you used to love to do, like riding a bike, getting the hose and having water fights, the simple things are now so much fun. Anyway, if it a mutual decsion to not have children then fair enough, but everyone I know that have made this decision have always regretted it, although some are not so vocal about and don't talk about it.
JMO anyway.


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## pseudechis4740 (Apr 13, 2011)

As a father of three (2 girls & a boy, aged 6 -9) I can honestly say they are well and truly worth it. Testing at times? YES. But when you see within them aspects of yourself such as an admiration of the natural world that you can nurture and encourage it gives you a belief that you can steer these young adults away from the nastier elements of society. We never planned to be parents but parenthood chose us and for those out there that this will happen to all I can say is to just adjust to the life changes and do the best you can. People who have everything at their disposal can still stuff up parenting up.


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## babba007 (Apr 13, 2011)

I have always liked kids and knew that one day I would have them. When I was 26 I had this completely overwhelming urge to have a baby. I didn't just want a baby, I *needed* one .....NOW! Just thought I'd throw that in. Maybe your girlfriend is in that place now. I now have 2 boys, and while it is bloody hard work, it is totally worth the sleepless nights, vomit, poo, wee, blood, tears, grazes, detentions, backchat blah blah blah. You get the idea. A totally ****ty day can be fixed with a hug and a kiss. Wouldn't change it for the world. Of course, this is my opinion and it works for me. Only you can decide what is right for you.


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## Ships (Apr 13, 2011)

Its only my opinion but I think you miss a large chunk of life not having kids, its quite amazing watching them grow, change and learn. The love you have for your child is extroadinary and nothing else comes even remotely close. The love we think we have for partners or pets pales into insignificance compared to that for a child, my 2 cents.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 13, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha less clear if anything. Like I said I really appreciate all the input from both sides and I don't want someone to make the decision or me I just wanted experiences and opinions. So please keep going if you guys aren't over it yet.
> I have one other question. For me, my intelligence is my only feature/trait that I can say I am proud of. It seems like if I were to create a little Saximus and screwed up somewhere along the line and didn't give it the best possible education I would feel guilty forever. I literally stay up at night thinking about my reps and rats and what I can do to better their lives. I can only imagine how much more this would be compounded with a person. Do you guys stress about what you're doing wrong/could be doing better in your kids' lives?
> PS I'm not saying any of you are doing anything wrong but we could all be doing a better job somewhere, right?


 
Something my oldman told me that may put your mind at ease mate.

Son I can only show you the road your the one that has to walk it.
I will pick you up when you fall but i won't carry you.
I can only provide the tools but your the one that has to use them.
In the end only time will tell if I've done the right things.


Very wise words from my oldman I think anyway...


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## Southern_Forest_Drag (Apr 13, 2011)

Cant really chip in as im only 20 myself but i hope to eventually have kids when im in my late 20's i think its an individual choice and you should 100% want them if your going to have them, regardless of what anyone else says its your choice, personally im not sure how people couldn't want kids but everyones different i guess. Children are with you forever you would be missing out on something amazing.


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## saximus (Apr 13, 2011)

Wise words indeed Red


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> Something my oldman told me that may put your mind at ease mate.
> 
> Son I can only show you the road your the one that has to walk it.
> I will pick you up when you fall but i won't carry you.
> ...


my mum said a similar thing, my dad's advice to me was, "before you get married put a coin in a jar everytime you do the deed, once you are married take a coin out of the same jar for everytime you do it........ the jar will never be empty!"


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## hypochondroac (Apr 13, 2011)

The world has enough humans, on that basis alone i see sense in not having children.
But besides all that i just genuinely don't want them. It's a huge responsibility that in my opinion more than half of the population take light heartedly.

I get alot more joy out of working with animals than i do people.


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## phantomreptiles (Apr 13, 2011)

Wow what an interesting thread! Just adding my two cents worth. I faced this decision a few years ago (was pregnant), I chose myself. I love my reptiles, but can sell them if I choose, which I would never. My dog is my child. I just do not want to be responsible for another human being.
And being a single 33yr old female alot of people find this hard to believe. Each to their own, but some people should have kids, some should not. 
I have noticed a larger number of children in the lower social economic areas, (go to Inala Qld, mums & kids everywhere) but go to a higher social economic area and no children.....does that mean our population is going to get dumber?? Those that should breed - don't.......those that should not -...do!!! 
Expecting some flaming from my above comments
Animals are better than people


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## Darlyn (Apr 14, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> Something my oldman told me that may put your mind at ease mate.
> 
> Son I can only show you the road your the one that has to walk it.
> I will pick you up when you fall but i won't carry you.
> ...



Your oldman was certainly wise, great sentiments


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 14, 2011)

phantomreptiles said:


> Wow what an interesting thread! Just adding my two cents worth. I faced this decision a few years ago (was pregnant), I chose myself. I love my reptiles, but can sell them if I choose, which I would never. My dog is my child. I just do not want to be responsible for another human being.
> And being a single 33yr old female alot of people find this hard to believe. Each to their own, but some people should have kids, some should not.
> I have noticed a larger number of children in the lower social economic areas, (go to Inala Qld, mums & kids everywhere) but go to a higher social economic area and no children.....does that mean our population is going to get dumber?? Those that should breed - don't.......those that should not -...do!!!
> Expecting some flaming from my above comments
> Animals are better than people


 Yeah,bring back eugenics.......not everyone that is poor is stupid


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## fugawi (Apr 14, 2011)

Here is a story that will show the ups and downs........
My son started in a new school this year, they hit us with the Broken Bay camp. We were too late to give in the paperwork and deposit and so he is probably the only one not going. We told them we had the full amount and could give it to them there and now, before the due date but they wouldn't budge. Suffice to say he was devastated. You can imagine how we felt.
A couple of days later I got a call from a friend asking if my son and I wanted to go camping with him, his mate and his kids. 4wding, bushwalking, herping and shooting. When I told my son about this he was over the moon. This trip will be around the same time as the school trip, he is glad he couldn't go and is now telling his mates at school what he is doing and they are jealous. He is a big Call of Duty fan and now he will get to shoot a real gun.....He is stoked.
In summary....He was devastated, our stupid fault, everyone down, then phone call....Broken where? Woohoo I get to shoot a real gun, yippee. Everyone happy.
We all make mistakes and no matter what happens or where we are, as long as we are together, we are a family.
If you want a kid...have one, if you don't want a kid ...don't have one. It is not compulsory. Whichever way you go.....enjoy life!


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## ravan (Apr 14, 2011)

Meh, a few people have said it already, why have children because its expected?
My partner & I both agree that children are not for us - the world's overpopulated.enough without us adding aanother devil spawn to it lol.
Plus children take up so much, time, effort & money, all of ehich we'd like to spend on ourselves lol.
Plus our animals are like our children anyway.


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## Snakewoman (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't want my own children, but I've been thinking for a while that one day I'd like to adopt a little African American child. There are plenty of people in the world, the population isn't in danger, but there are plenty of children who don't have a home that need one. This isn't something I'd do for another 10 years or so, I'd make sure I was in a position where I could look after a child first, it isn't fair to bring a child into a place where they can't be looked after properly because you can't afford it.

What I don't understand is why so many people don't like it when you say you don't want your own children.Why does it matter to them? I've had a few people stupidly try to argue with me about this, and they didn't win. One lady tried to use emotional blackmail to force me to change my mind by saying " Oh but you can't do that to your mother, she wants to have Grandchildren!" My mother was standing there and said to this lady "How do you know? I don't care if she doesn't have kids, if she doesn't have them I don't have to babysit them." I'm glad my mother accepts that I don't want my own kids, I'd hate to live wit a family member who was trying to make me change my mind all the time. What some people don't realise is that the more they try to force me to do something the less likely it is that I will.

Other people try the old 'when you meet the right man' thing. My reply is always the right man is one that feels the same way I do. A relationship where two people have different ideas about such a serious issue won't work if neither of them change their mind. I have 3 neurological disorders, some of which could be passed to a child, and I don't want that. I also have trouble being around screaming children, it gets me in a nasty mood very quickly (thanks a lot ADD).


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 14, 2011)

Tahlia said:


> I don't want my own children, but I've been thinking for a while that one day I'd like to adopt a little African American child. There are plenty of people in the world, the population isn't in danger, but there are plenty of children who don't have a home that need one. This isn't something I'd do for another 10 years or so, I'd make sure I was in a position where I could look after a child first, it isn't fair to bring a child into a place where they can't be looked after properly because you can't afford it.
> 
> What I don't understand is why so many people don't like it when you say you don't want your own children.Why does it matter to them? I've had a few people stupidly try to argue with me about this, and they didn't win. One lady tried to use emotional blackmail to force me to change my mind by saying " Oh but you can't do that to your mother, she wants to have Grandchildren!" My mother was standing there and said to this lady "How do you know? I don't care if she doesn't have kids, if she doesn't have them I don't have to babysit them." I'm glad my mother accepts that I don't want my own kids, I'd hate to live wit a family member who was trying to make me change my mind all the time. What some people don't realise is that the more they try to force me to do something the less likely it is that I will.
> 
> Other people try the old 'when you meet the right man' thing. My reply is always the right man is one that feels the same way I do. A relationship where two people have different ideas about such a serious issue won't work if neither of them change their mind. I have 3 neurological disorders, some of which could be passed to a child, and I don't want that. I also have trouble being around screaming children, it gets me in a nasty mood very quickly (thanks a lot ADD).


Not having a go but why an African American child. I don't think people should adopt children and take them out of their own cultural environment. Not only are you a completely different culture to an African American, but this is a completely different country. In my grandchildrens family there are people that were fostered, adopted, stolen from their aboriginal parents and raised in a white mans world and they felt disconnected and displaced and then when they returned to their people they felt disconnected and displaced there to. It is not really fair to take a child away from it's cultural heritage unless the circumstances are absolutely dire, ie: war torn country etc. Just my opinion.


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## Seru1 (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm rather odd on this. I like the idea of having kids, but the idea of dating or being in a relationship makes me want to vomit. I'd take care of an animal or Child but never a full grown, capable, adult. And I'm not willing to change for one either.

Being a man though, makes it hard. I guess someday if I ever made good money I could adopt but that would seem creepy and I'd probably be considered a pervert or something.

It's a quandary.


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## hugsta (Apr 14, 2011)

ravan said:


> Meh, a few people have said it already, why have children because its expected?
> My partner & I both agree that children are not for us - the world's overpopulated.enough without us adding aanother devil spawn to it lol.
> Plus children take up so much, time, effort & money, all of ehich we'd like to spend on ourselves lol.
> Plus our animals are like our children anyway.



I wouldn't say having children is expected, after all it is a personal decision and most people will respect that.
If you do have kids, you will realise that your animals are nothing compared to your kids, although they are a major part of your family.
It is not a decision to make lightly, having children is majorly life altering and expensive, but the joy they bring far outways any cost.
But, as I have said before, it is when people make the decision to not have kids, which is fine, it is the huge disappointment down the track when you wished you did. For most women it is an uncontrollable urge to have children, it is their biological clock ticking, telling them must reproduce.

Tahlia, if you don't want children, why adopt? Adoption is a great thing, for those unable to mother/father their own, or for those that have loads of money for them. I don't think you would ever compensate for not having your own if you are able to, adopting is great, but I don't think you would have the same feeling for a person that grew inside of you, your own flesh and blood. JMO.


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## hrafna (Apr 14, 2011)

i am adopted and there is a whole section of extended family (uncles, aunts, cousins and even 1 grandmother) who treated me like crap because i wasn't a blood relative, but hey i got 2 loving parents who i meant the world too. but a friend of mine in high school was also adopted and she had alot more issues than i did, first and foremost was the fact that she was asian and was adopted by a white family, she was miserable most of her life because no matter what her family did or didn't do, she was always an outsider, she was always the odd one out. i know different people have different opinions and i respect that, but for me i am against adopting children from a different cultural background. sorry.


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## ravan (Apr 14, 2011)

hugsta said:


> I wouldn't say having children is expected, after all it is a personal decision and most people will respect that.
> If you do have kids, you will realise that your animals are nothing compared to your kids, although they are a major part of your family.


 
well, when i say expected, i mean the whole, meet someone, get married, have children, live long and prosper, etc...

neither of us care about that, and I know my animals arent like children at all, and thats what's so good about them! lol

they dont make any noise, you only have to feed them every few days and they stick to their cages. 
they dont cry every 12 seconds, poo nearly the same amount of time and need to eat every few hours.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

lol "live long as prosper" was Spock. I'm not sure what his views of raising children were


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## Snakewoman (Apr 14, 2011)

hugsta said:


> Tahlia, if you don't want children, why adopt? Adoption is a great thing, for those unable to mother/father their own, or for those that have loads of money for them. I don't think you would ever compensate for not having your own if you are able to, adopting is great, but I don't think you would have the same feeling for a person that grew inside of you, your own flesh and blood. JMO.



I'd said I didn't want my own children. That's because of the neurological disorders that I could pass to them. Living with these disorders can be very hard sometimes, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for burdening someone else with it. The children that are already on the planet didn't get a choice in that and need good homes. My thoughts about adoption are not definite, just something I'd thought about. 



kaotikjezta said:


> Not having a go but why an African American child. I don't think people should adopt children and take them out of their own cultural environment. Not only are you a completely different culture to an African American, but this is a completely different country. In my grandchildrens family there are people that were fostered, adopted, stolen from their aboriginal parents and raised in a white mans world and they felt disconnected and displaced and then when they returned to their people they felt disconnected and displaced there to. It is not really fair to take a child away from it's cultural heritage unless the circumstances are absolutely dire, ie: war torn country etc. Just my opinion.


 
I agree that taking a person out of their country isn't good except in desperate situations, but there are people who have moved over here and ended up having children they didn't want. If the child was born here and grew up in this country then in that case the child would probably prefer to stay here since this is all they know.


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## SYNeR (Apr 14, 2011)

Karly said:


> My fiance and I have decided not to have children. When I picture my future, I just don't see children as a part of it. I'm much more interested in pursuing other goals. I think if you are going to bring a child into the world, it should be because you really WANT it, not just because it's something people expect from you.... like you get married and have children... it's just what happens.
> 
> I've been ridiculed by so many people for my decision who can't understand how a FEMALE doesn't have that maternal instict. I just don't have it! I never have!
> 
> I get what you mean by saying you are too selfish to have children, I feel exactly the same way, but in a way that makes you very selfLESS for being able to admit to that and not caving into social pressure and having a child that you don't really want.


 
Yep, too true. It's just as selfish to have children (if not more so?) because really, you're spreading your genes 

I've come across far too many people who just plod along, get married and have children because it's what people are expected to do. They never question it or seem to think seriously about it.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Talking about selfish genes there, Syner. I like it


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 14, 2011)

Tahlia said:


> I agree that taking a person out of their country isn't good except in desperate situations, but there are people who have moved over here and ended up having children they didn't want. If the child was born here and grew up in this country then in that case the child would probably prefer to stay here since this is all they know.


They are still a different culture to you, you are not African American and there is a difference.


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## SYNeR (Apr 14, 2011)

saximus said:


> Talking about selfish genes there, Syner. I like it


 
It's all too true though! I've noticed people (I'm not sure if I should use the term 'friends') who only seem interested in going out and hooking up. Then there are others I've been friends with who seem only too happy to cut off friendships, get married and have children and occupy themselves that way.

This is why I'm not very interested in going out and socialising. A hell of a lot of people are interested in just going out and hooking up. At times, it's hard to see humanity as somehow more advanced than other animals, for we seem to resort to the same biological urges but dress them up :\


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah I just finished reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins which gave me a much better insight into what I thought I knew about this stuff. It's also why I found your statement amusing. I definitely think we are a product of our genes and,as a result, our instincts. We can't shed a couple of million years of evolution/instinct in a century or two. Maybe my genes are defective which is why I have no desire to procreate. If that's the case then obviously natural selection will filter people like me (and those other people who have gone child-free) out of the gene pool and the genes which cause a desire to continue procreating will be the ones that carry on thus carrying us to larger and larger populations until we destroy ourselves or the Earth destroys us and the next set of apex species takes over.
Or maybe I'm just being too philosophical and looking into it too much...


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## Chris1 (Apr 14, 2011)

saximus said:


> Yeah I just finished reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins which gave me a much better insight into what I thought I knew about this stuff. It's also why I found your statement amusing. I definitely think we are a product of our genes and,as a result, our instincts. We can't shed a couple of million years of evolution/instinct in a century or two. Maybe my genes are defective which is why I have no desire to procreate. If that's the case then obviously natural selection will filter people like me (and those other people who have gone child-free) out of the gene pool and the genes which cause a desire to continue procreating will be the ones that carry on thus carrying us to larger and larger populations until we destroy ourselves or the Earth destroys us and the next set of apex species takes over.
> Or maybe I'm just being too philosophical and looking into it too much...



wow, thats so interesting, i think ill have to read that too.

mum always regreted having us, she went on anti depresssants when i was 22 cos she felt she'd wasted her life having kids rather than following a career,...and of the probably 50 odd cousins i have, only 2 have bred, the rest are also happily childless,... (my brother and i were both good kids, its not like we ruined parenting for her)

dad was 1 of 11, but they were catholic and against contraception, so i dont think his mum had 11 by 'choice'.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

It's interesting hearing you say you're happy childless but Hugsta says he knows people who regret it. Then you have the same arguments for those who have children. It's been said plenty of times already but it's obvious this isn't a universal thing and either way it's going to be a risk whether I will be "happy" with my life at the end


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## Chris1 (Apr 14, 2011)

what i meant was it must be something to do with genes,...since no one in my gene pool seems willing to procreate!!
sounds like a great read at any rate!!

I am worried i'll regret it when im older, but by then i might have been hit by a truck or something,...


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Ah right sorry now I get it. Yeah that is a really interesting idea. I guess this is where a nature vs nurture debate would normally start...


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## SYNeR (Apr 14, 2011)

People subvert evolution every day.. with contraceptives, etc.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Or the biggest one - creating a welfare based society/culture...


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## fugawi (Apr 14, 2011)

I find it fascinating that most replies are from 4 catagories.

Those that ABSOLUTELY won't, under any circumstances, ever have kids.

Those that HAVE kids....no regrets.

Those that may want kids but don't due to medical reasons
And 
Those that have had family problems and now have small regrets.

What I find interesting is that there is no wrong answer. All of their reasons are valid and correct FOR THEM, right now.
You just need to see where you are right here and now.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 14, 2011)

Have it mate.. does'nt work out on sell it to Madona or Angelina they don't have one from Australia yet (just kidding)


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## eitak (Apr 14, 2011)

I always thought i'd love to have kids but now that i'm getting older I seem to want them less and less . . 
Whats to love about something growing inside of you increasing your waist, the stretch marks, widening your hips swelling your legs, increasing your chance of hypertension etc etc. Then giving birth - getting ripped and stretched beyond recognition. Then the tantrums, vomit, no sleep, the money you spend, lack of freedom. Then teenagers, sex, drugs, alcohol, arguments, sneaking out, wanting money for expensive things. All I can see kids doing in my life is taking up my free time, using all my money, fighting with what I say then one day they will have kids and probly expect me to look after them. 
Or I can not have kids, do whatever I want when I want, and not be broke . . . Although every now and then I hold a cute baby and think this is sweet then it starts to cry and smell and vomit and I am reminded of what I am not missing out on.


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## fugawi (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow what a terrible outlook eitak. Each and every one of those points is vilid and true but for each bad point there would be 100 good points. That outlook is not the cup is half empty but the cup is completely empty, broken and will never hold anything again.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't agree that it's as "terrible" as you say Fugawi. I think it's just a different view and, in my case at least, it's the view that comes from the natural selfishness that I referred to in the OP


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## guzzo (Apr 14, 2011)

One thing I can say ....IMO when you have kids it seems like someone has pressed the fast forward button on my life....


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## Red-Ink (Apr 14, 2011)

guzzo said:


> One thing I can say ....IMO when you have kids it seems like someone has pressed the fast forward button on my life....



Yep... seen that turn around in my best mate. He was the typical bloke always getting into things (down for whateva). Most care free individual you can meet... Now... well his still all those things but he's a dad first and foremost. Tottally changed his life for the better i think he matured quick smart lol.


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Guzzo do you mean that is a good or a bad thing?


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## Megzz (Apr 14, 2011)

guzzo said:


> One thing I can say ....IMO when you have kids it seems like someone has pressed the fast forward button on my life....


Yep, it is seriously scary how fast time goes since having my daughter!!


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

So Megzz, same question - is that good or bad...or neither?


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## Megzz (Apr 14, 2011)

saximus said:


> So Megzz, same question - is that good or bad...or neither?


I wouldn't say its good or bad... its just scary sometimes. I hate the thought of getting older, and watching a little kid growing so fast right before your eyes is a real reminder that time is going by.


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

Watch a movie called Idiocracy, its is the result of smart people thinking about having children :lol: It is also based on a principal that is actually true, stupid and uneducated people typically breed the most.

Another thing to consider is that you will most likely change biologically if you become a father and it will blind you to the fact that kids are pests :lol:


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## waruikazi (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm getting really clucky reading this thread... scary.


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## Megzz (Apr 14, 2011)

cris said:


> Another thing to consider is that you will most likely change biologically if you become a father and it will blind you to the fact that kids are pests :lol:


No no, not always the case. I am completely aware that my daughter is a pain in the bum. I dont much care for other children either


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeah Cris I've seen it and my girlfriend likes to bring that up a lot. I suppose taking a walk through Riverlink in Ippy is as good an example as you'll get of that in practice.
A lot of people have said the whole world changes the second you see and hold your own kid for the first time. I guess the trouble is whether I want to get to that point in the first place...


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 14, 2011)

cris said:


> Watch a movie called Idiocracy, its is the result of smart people thinking about having children :lol: It is also based on a principal that is actually true, stupid and uneducated people typically breed the most.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that you will most likely change biologically if you become a father and it will blind you to the fact that kids are pests :lol:


That's funny, my parents aren't stupid but are uneducated due to family commitments, ie: my fathers dad died after the war so he had to leave school and look after the family. I am an only child. I have landed in relationships with people from very educated, well off backgrounds and all of them had 4+ siblings. When I was studying all the private school kids were from big families,so that theory doesn't really work from what I can see. They may start breeding later but once they start they don't stop. As I said before being poor and uneducated doesn't instantly mean stupid either. I have two children, 10 years apart and I guess I was never hugely maternal and I am pretty selfish in a lots of ways but I don't regret either of my children, I did however enjoy them a lot more once I could have an intelligent conversation with them. I loved them when they were little but I didn't really appreciate them until their brains started to develop. My kids both call me by my name not mum and we are friends as much as mother/son and I couldn't imagine life without them now.


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## Minka (Apr 14, 2011)

For me i had always been on the "I'm never having kids" side. I could never stand other people's children. School holidays make me want to shoot myself in the head (and they still do). By nature i am not a maternal person and having children seemed an impossible task to me. Everyone at some point has been stuck on a plane/bus/train with a screaming child - that to me is one of the most testing moments you have to endure in your life! 

But then i had my son. And my out look changed somewhat... I still can't stand other people's children, School holidays and being stuck on a plane with a screaming child (even my own!) but i love my son more than anything on this planet and would lay in front of a train for him. In the beginning it was really hard, adjusting to the complete 360 degree life style change and having another life completely and utterly dependent on you for everything is very trying at times. But when he smiles i forget it all. He brings a joy to my life that no negative can outweigh. I do miss my freedom and the ability to do whatever i like when i like but i wouldn't change having him for anything. And i look forward to the fact it apparently gets easier the older they get...until they hit the teenage years that is 

I should also mention i have not changed much about my lifestyle to accommodate my son - i still keep Elapids, my Dog's still have free range of the house as do the Cat's. They are just not obviously allowed into his bedroom.
Each to their own though Saximus. Your choices may change just as your circumstances might but you usually know what's right for you deep down in the dead of night. I wish you well in this thing we call Life


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## sacred_DUC (Apr 14, 2011)

i don't want kids too much hassles nowadays and cost of living don't get me started.
i like my disposable children er nephews and neice so much better once they start getting grumpy just handball then back.


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## waruikazi (Apr 14, 2011)

sacred_DUC said:


> i don't want kids too much hassles nowadays and cost of living don't get me started.
> i like my disposable children er nephews and neice so much better once they start getting grumpy just handball then back.



At 80 i wouldn't think you'd have too many swimmers left anyway. :lol:


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> That's funny, my parents aren't stupid but are uneducated due to family commitments, ie: my fathers dad died after the war so he had to leave school and look after the family. I am an only child. I have landed in relationships with people from very educated, well off backgrounds and all of them had 4+ siblings. When I was studying all the private school kids were from big families,so that theory doesn't really work from what I can see. They may start breeding later but once they start they don't stop. As I said before being poor and uneducated doesn't instantly mean stupid either. I have two children, 10 years apart and I guess I was never hugely maternal and I am pretty selfish in a lots of ways but I don't regret either of my children, I did however enjoy them a lot more once I could have an intelligent conversation with them. I loved them when they were little but I didn't really appreciate them until their brains started to develop. My kids both call me by my name not mum and we are friends as much as mother/son and I couldn't imagine life without them now.


 
Fair point when i said poor and uneducated i meant for that to possibly mean 2 differant categories and i never said intellegent educated people cant have lots of kids, its just just not as common as the other stupid and/or uneducated categories. Kids are like adults its not all of them i find stupid and annoying :lol:


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## cleobhp (Apr 14, 2011)

No kids for me can't stand them, ppl tell me once you reach a certain age and the biological clock starts ticking things will change well, nothing did, would rather breed animals then breed myself. Costs too much to bring a child into the world and would much rather spend that money on my animals.


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## eitak (Apr 14, 2011)

fugawi said:


> Wow what a terrible outlook eitak. Each and every one of those points is vilid and true but for each bad point there would be 100 good points. That outlook is not the cup is half empty but the cup is completely empty, broken and will never hold anything again.


 
Haha don't get me wrong for some unexplained reason I still have the urge to have kids, but when I really think about it these are the main arguments against and I find them rather convincing


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## fugawi (Apr 14, 2011)

I believe that if the relationship between partners is strong, you can see yourself still with her when you are 80 and you are financially stable, then all the other reasons don't enter in to it. So wait for the mating season, put the male in with the female, after successful mating let the egg incubate for around 9 mths and finally spit out a new Saximus hatchie. Then strap yourself in and enjoy the ride......daddy.:lol:


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## Defective (Apr 15, 2011)

well i can't have kids because being an epileptic. if i go off the meds i could have a massive seizure, i get preggers on them i risk passing epilepsy onto my child and birth deformities from the meds. it's not a choice i made but when i found out my type of epilepsy is genetic it made it set i was never going to breed. 
i love buying baby stuff for others and if my sister has kids i can expand my herp collection buy purchasing snakes and lizards/monitors for them and if they wanna feed them or anything, auntie Rhi will be around. 

I treat yoda as my child, he brings comfort,love and pure happiness to my life and in return hes well looked after and i have a 'brag book' so yeah.

yeah i'll be the strange auntie but my neices and nephews will have a ball



Minka said:


> For me i had always been on the "I'm never having kids" side. I could never stand other people's children. School holidays make me want to shoot myself in the head (and they still do). By nature i am not a maternal person and having children seemed an impossible task to me. Everyone at some point has been stuck on a plane/bus/train with a screaming child - that to me is one of the most testing moments you have to endure in your life!
> 
> But then i had my son. And my out look changed somewhat... I still can't stand other people's children, School holidays and being stuck on a plane with a screaming child (even my own!) but i love my son more than anything on this planet and would lay in front of a train for him. In the beginning it was really hard, adjusting to the complete 360 degree life style change and having another life completely and utterly dependent on you for everything is very trying at times. But when he smiles i forget it all. He brings a joy to my life that no negative can outweigh. I do miss my freedom and the ability to do whatever i like when i like but i wouldn't change having him for anything. And i look forward to the fact it apparently gets easier the older they get...until they hit the teenage years that is
> 
> ...


 
i live next door to a childcare centre!


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## Hetty (Apr 15, 2011)

I imagine it's quite tough when you have been with someone so long, it's one of the few 'deal-breaker' things. A wise friend of mine said to discuss these things before the relationship gets serious. At the time I thought it was madness and would scare any man away, I now don't think this is the case at all. It's not like saying "Do you want to have kids, now?", most people know if they want them in the future or not.

I want kids eventually, so I wouldn't go out with anyone who didn't want them. Just setting up for heartbreak. And yeah, some people change their minds, but it's a pretty big risk.

Anyway, Saximus, good luck making your decision. Just don't take forever then choose no if your girlfriend really wants kids, because it isn't fair to her.


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## saximus (Apr 16, 2011)

Hetty said:


> Anyway, Saximus, good luck making your decision. Just don't take forever then choose no if your girlfriend really wants kids, because it isn't fair to her.


 This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Some people may say six years is already too long to have taken but I guess I didn't know "for sure" until more recently
I said this before but there have been a few more contributors since so I'll say again thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to give thoughtful responses. When I started this I only expected a few responses from the childless ones but I've received so much more info.


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## fugawi (Apr 16, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the idea that your partner is interested in kids. It also seems that you are on the fence and have been for 6 yrs and are trying to find a good argument to delay or say outright "no kids". Take my advice and answer these three questions.......Is your relationship with your partner 100% stable for now and into the foreseeable future? Are your finances stable? Have you got a roof over your head? If you answered yes to all three then your life is just fine to have or not have kids. Now sit back and ignore all these posts because you are different to all these people and do what is in your heart.


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## CrystalMoon (Apr 16, 2011)

I feel the biggest mistake you could make is being undecided and going through with becoming a parent to please/keep your partner. It is definately a personal choice, and probably the most unselfish decision you could make is one where if in doubt you decide to refrain from becoming a parent. There are way too many children in the world that have part time parents, neglectful or Zoned out parents. I live, sleep, breath for my Daughter and for me I could never imagine life without being a parent it has been a gift I treasure. However I truly admire those who opt for "out of the box" thinking and go with what is right for them not neccessarily society and it's (sometimes)antiquated views.


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## Defective (Apr 16, 2011)

if anything i would adopt if i decided to have kids


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## Just_Plain_Nuts (Apr 16, 2011)

Very difficult subject with far too many variables, I have seen people dead against kids get fully pressured into it by their spouse only to do a full 360 and absolutely adore their child and want more. And have seen parents that decide to have kids but arent prepared to sacrifice anything to have them ie put the kids in day care from 6 in the morning to 6 at night from six weeks of age to continue their career (I dont know why they bother having kids as they dont really see them). As far as being ready for them, you never will be. If you do have children you must be prepared to give them all of you and your love so choose wisely. Raising a child or children will be the hardest but most satisfying thing you will do. It comes with higher highs and lower lowes than anything else can give. If you and your partner disagree on this it will usually be the dealbreaker of all dealbreakers.....good luck. PS We are about to have our fourth....


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## SYNeR (Apr 17, 2011)

saximus said:


> Or the biggest one - creating a welfare based society/culture...



Eugenics FTW!


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## the_tsar (Apr 17, 2011)

Your fear around having or not having kids is more to do with being tied to a responsibility that is hard to walk away from if you descide it isnt for you.

Unlike a job or relationship, this call of duty means we have to be more serious about job security and making sure money comes in, so in effect the child is putting expectaions about how we are to be in the future to care for a kid.

Unless you can kiss goodbye to they old way one used to live your way of life, where we are free to dump an unwelcome job at a whim, to spend money on ebay till it is gone, going out when you wanna....... unless you can accept that kids will eat into our time and wreck our stuff,..........then when you are able to let all that relative freeedom go, will child rearing be rewarding.

They are not expensive or particularly big time burgerlers, but they do eat into time and our ability to split for a day or night.

I just had one at 36 years old 4 months ago, and had your thoughts about kids.

I has one just because life seemed boring if I didnt give it a go.
Now I have one, they are fascinating, and please you no end with their weirdness.

This is hard to imagine when your kidless, and harder to think YOU could be entertained by it.

So I reckon, have kids when you see the constraints being trivial compared to the adventure of breeding.

They also unlock the mystery of babys, that was clueless about till I had one


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## Mudimans (Apr 18, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> I don't think if you had the kids, you'd regret it. If you didn't have them, it may be something you regret down the track when it's too late. If the mrs wants them, you should both have a long chat about it. No point deciding you want different things, and then 12 months later realising you wouldn't mind kids and you've missed your chance with that one girl.



I haven't read all of these pages, I will when I have some more time as this is a topic that gets to me a lot, as I too don't want to have children. As a married, 28 year old who not only works in a field where I'm surrounded by babies, but very much loves all the little kids in my life-a LOt of people tell me I should have children, or often that of course I WILL have children. Funny that people don't accept that some people just chose not to. I don't go around telling people that they're silly and will regret their decision to have a child, so why do people feel they can force their opinions on me regarding the subject! 
Rider, I quote you because I believe I'd rather regret not having children than regret having them. 
I could go on and on about the topic, but agree with spilota-variegata, that it's a personal choice!


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## saximus (Apr 18, 2011)

Mudimans said:


> I don't go around telling people that they're silly and will regret their decision to have a child, so why do people feel they can force their opinions on me regarding the subject!


 Haha Mudimans that is a very profound statement and if you replace "have a child" with just about anything you get how I feel about just about all of my beliefs. I'm really happy that this thread didn't turn into a slinging match and people managed to continue to give their opinions/experiences without rubbishing anyone else's. If you'd prefer to talk in PM I'd love to hear your thoughts...


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## Grogshla (Apr 18, 2011)

If i was filthy rich then i would love to have kids. Not to spoil them but to know that i can be there for them at any time and raise them to be the best people possible.


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## eitak (Apr 18, 2011)

Just had a lecture about ageing etc. Apparently women who have given birth have much more pronounced muscle loss as they get older than women that haven't . . Also it can weaken your abdominal wall, which will increase the risk of hernias . . awesome


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## Defective (Apr 18, 2011)

we're also more prone to prolapses as well if you've had kids.....wonder if soaking in sugar water and putting a bandaid over the prolapse will fix it?! hehehe

ohh and don't forget the stress incontinance!


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## pythonmum (Apr 19, 2011)

All of the female problems are worse if you wait longer to have kids. Women who wait until their mid 30s are shocked to discover that their fertility has decreased and that complications increase. Our society is big on getting financially and professionally established, but we've forgotten basic biology. I had both of mine before 30 (just) with few problems. My sister had hers after and had a lot of trouble with the pregnancies. 

Most people were surprised I had kids. They thought I'd have pets, not children. I've managed to have both and am glad I did. However, I can see why you would give it a miss, too. The main thing is to be sure you know why you are making the choice and that your partner is really on board, not just agreeing to make peace. If you are really not in agreement, it is a true deal-breaker.


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## Defective (Apr 19, 2011)

mum had me at 31 and my sister when she was nearly 35. my stepmum had my second brother at 39


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## Gecksta (Apr 19, 2011)

i am a kid we are hard work


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## Renenet (Apr 19, 2011)

pythonmum said:


> All of the female problems are worse if you wait longer to have kids. Women who wait until their mid 30s are shocked to discover that their fertility has decreased and that complications increase.



That's very true. I know someone who had her first in her very late 30s and she has all kinds of uncomfortable problems now. She really wanted that child, however, so the possible complications weren't at the forefront of her mind when she was trying to become pregnant.

They're certainly at the forefront of mine, which shows you where my priorities lie.


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## Defective (Apr 19, 2011)

The other thing that has scared me is being a single parent. I saw how my mum struggled emotionally and financially with 2 kids under the age of 10 I don't want to be like that and I grew up thinking all men were twats and I've been to guarded to let someone into my life and after today on aps chat I'm even more wary of men


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## MissVampz (Apr 19, 2011)

I know some people will probably disagree with me or tell me I should wait til I'm older, but I'm 20 this year and I know for sure that I could never devote my life to raising a child, I'm sure of this and have discussed it with my parents as well and they understand (lucky!) I know I get tired of people treating me like somehow there's something wrong with me for not wanting kids. But I'm deadset against having them. I just don't feel I could give up so much of my time and energy and money for a baby/child.


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## HypnoticSlither (Apr 19, 2011)

i have been with my partner for 6 years... i do not want kids. hopefully get married someday. but yes definitely no kids for me.


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## Recharge (Apr 20, 2011)

Lambert said:


> The other thing that has scared me is being a single parent. I saw how my mum struggled emotionally and financially with 2 kids under the age of 10 I don't want to be like that and I grew up thinking all men were twats and I've been to guarded to let someone into my life and after today on aps chat I'm even more wary of men


 
that's because we ARE all twats  lol
but some of us do tend to have *some* redeeming qualities.
(my gf sure thinks so  haha, at least when I'm not being stupid lol)

as for being too guarded, well, life is about taking risks or being forever alone.
all relationships have their problems, as does being single, only you can decide to take the risk or not, the longer you wait, the more you miss out on in experience (both good and bad) and all you're left with is regret.
take chances, date around, know your heart and self better, you're only cheating yourself if you hide away trying to be "safe"

children? 
heh, that's a tough one, not for me personally, but each to their own.
too many people have them and fail them in SO many aspects, I think mainly because parents forever see their kid as the helpless baby/child, and never realise they're just little people who NEED to learn as much as they can.
and parents tend to want to hold on to that innocent childhood forever (or at least far too long) every child has the ability to be greater than Einstein but parents fail again and again to take advantage of a budding mind wanting to learn. 
hell, simply look in these forum to see how badly parents do with education, it's not the schools, it's the parents who fail every time, take active interest in your children, help them to love to learn and teach them everything you can and give them everything you can to learn.
if your child grows up a dummy, it's you fault every single time, and there's millions to show you the wrong way, probably including yourself (I know I am not bright, but I do better than a lot of people, which scares me silly)
we aren't doing nearly enough for all our children, not enough time, not enough attention in the right areas and not nearly enough respect in who they could grow to be if we give it our all.

and think of adoption too, for at least one of your children, there are several thousand kids in the system as we speak, with almost no hope of ever having a decent home or loving parents, because they make it SO hard compared to just getting knocked up, and you WILL love an adopted child as much, and save a life from growing up in the system.

/rant


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## sd1981 (Apr 20, 2011)

saximus - this is a very individual decision to make & like others have stated, it's for life so don't come to your decision lightly.. if in doubt, don't do it as it's not fair to you, your partner or the kids.
i can only tell you of the joys that my 2 children have brought me in the 2 1/2 years since they were born. every thing they do is a miracle. every word they say, (well, not all of them), every look they give, every thing they do is a miracle. i noticed when other peoples kids are being a pain in the ....., i have a short temper. with your own kids thats different. my 2 1/2 yo daughter took a hammer to my brand new harley davidson tank the other day, i went off... "why did you do that to daddys bike?" "im fixing it daddy, of course".it made sense to me as she'd seen me 'fixing' things with a hammer before.
her help has cost me $800 for my bike, but im still the happiest guy around. 
good luck with your decision.


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## Elite_Reptiles (Apr 20, 2011)

Three words: "Don't Do It"!!!


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## Red-Ink (Apr 20, 2011)

Recharge said:


> that's because we ARE all twats  lol
> but some of us do tend to have *some* redeeming qualities.
> (my gf sure thinks so  haha, at least when I'm not being stupid lol)


 
Heyyy??? that's not nice we are not all twats.. some of us are just plained old pricks lol


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 20, 2011)

sd1981 said:


> saximus - this is a very individual decision to make & like others have stated, it's for life so don't come to your decision lightly.. if in doubt, don't do it as it's not fair to you, your partner or the kids.
> i can only tell you of the joys that my 2 children have brought me in the 2 1/2 years since they were born. every thing they do is a miracle. every word they say, (well, not all of them), every look they give, every thing they do is a miracle. i noticed when other peoples kids are being a pain in the ....., i have a short temper. with your own kids thats different. my 2 1/2 yo daughter took a hammer to my brand new harley davidson tank the other day, i went off... "why did you do that to daddys bike?" "im fixing it daddy, of course".it made sense to me as she'd seen me 'fixing' things with a hammer before.
> her help has cost me $800 for my bike, but im still the happiest guy around.
> good luck with your decision.


 
hahaha! thats something i can imagine my 2 1/2 yr old doing!!! lucky she is scared of daddy's 'big bike" as she calls it!


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## ShaneBlack (Apr 20, 2011)

My advice is dont have kids....Theres enough people in the world already. All they do is tie you down.....dont do it and spend the rest of your life travelling and being free. You only live once.


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Apr 21, 2011)

Whilst I personally think it's different for everybody, 

I have an Aunty who didn't ever have kids and I recently asked her the same question (out of curiosity), and she said that she regrets it deeply. And then I asked her brother, my uncle, who never had kids if he regretted it and he said, and I quote, "HELL to the no!!". 
So I'm guessing that it's different for everybody, I have no personal experience with this matter (still in high school and don't plan on having children till I've finished university),
but my guess is that everybody is different and everybody wants different things. 
Good Luck with whatever you decide to do!


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## mark83 (Apr 21, 2011)

just got a big hug from my nearly 3 year old daughter. worth every cent and second. she can turn the worst day into the best day. the wife on the other hand.....


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## Jumala (Apr 24, 2011)

I was married never had kids (which was a good thing considering how things have worked out  ) I never really had the desire to have them. Have lots of friends who have kids and I can always borrow them and hand them back realising why I never had them. Yes call me selfish but I want to be able to do my own thing whenever I want. It is much easier to get animals looked after for 6 weeks while you are away then work out what to do with a child lol. 

But seriously - having children is a personal decision and one that is a lifetime commitment. It is not something that anyone should take lightly and the child should be wanted.

JMO


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## reptilian1924 (Apr 24, 2011)

l myself have never ever had any children of my own and most likely wont, the reason why is because its a lifetime commitment and l just don't feel l have what it take to be a father, unless you have access to a good home and plenty of money to help raise them to adult hood, why would you want to start a family just because your friends all have.

lts not for everyone from the way l see things here and l enjoy having my pets with me instead of children, that l have to buy toys-clothes-education-entertainment for, least with pets you only have to provide a good healthy home and food to them, aswell as the on occasion in vet cost.

l think there is to many humans on this planet we all share so why would we want to add more to the planet, espacially when alot of us are now struggling with food-utility-housing-health-education cost, and there is just not enough jobs around to employe us all full-time until where ready to retire from work.


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## Indysmum (Apr 26, 2011)

Sometimes feelings do change as we get older, so depending your age(you said 'young') I just wouldnt make any perminant decision (nothing medical I mean). 
If you are 100% certain, I suggest it be you rather than your lady to have op. Its far less intrucive. No rush for this either, plenty of contaceptions available 
Personally I had no interest in kids, not even much when friends started having babies...but then something 'clicked'. And call it hormones or whatever..but it is different when they are your own kids. If the desire isnt there however, dont let anyone convince you. It would be far worse having a child and regretting it than never having any. Heaps more money spend on yourself thats for sure lol


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## Naga_Kanya (May 27, 2011)

I've never wanted kids. I'm warming to the idea of spending time with friends' kids now they're starting to have them, and a fair bit of both of my jobs involves interacting with kids, but I still don't want any of my own. I think I'd make an awesome dad, but honestly I've also never dated a guy that wouldn't take a traditional gender role leaving me as "mum" if we had children, my otherwise-awesome current partner included, and I know flat-out I just wouldn't cope with that. That said, you can absolutely still have a life with kids; I grew up in 7 different countries because of Dad's job, and loved it - got carted up the Himalayas whilst still in single digits, rode elephants, played with snakes, all because my parents didn't see why a child should restrict them from having adventures. They were both highly educated and also passed the love of learning on to me early. Not all parenting has to be like it is in the 'burbs. As for the dreadies and piercings; I'm alternative, as are most of my friends, many of them parents. They've never had any problems with being alternative folks (mind you, most of us live in the bohemian bits of Melbourne, so we're not exactly considered "weird") with kids. I find kids adore me because I look exotic ("Your hair is RED!!! Are you a fairy?") - generally if anything it's the more sheltered suburban/country folk that even notice my appearance, and make an issue of it ("You don't LOOK like a ship's rigger..."). Every parent I know says your own kids are completely different from anyone else's, and I can see that, but I just don't want to be a Mum. All my maternal feelings get channeled into my animals; I guess I'm a bit of a cliche like that. But I am looking forward to helping my friends with their kids, building cool things for them to play with, and making adventures for them. I'm also looking forward to being able to give them back at the end of it. Nothing at all wrong with not wanting kids, or wanting kids, so long as whatever you do, you're doing what feels right. Good luck with whatever you decide; it sounds like a very difficult place to be in, and you've put your thoughts on the subject beautifully.


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## Tristan (May 27, 2011)

personally i don't really care about babies but toddlers are cool like walking talking puppies.

I'm single at the moment (sad face) but im 50/50 on kids topic i can see me living a happy life with and with out them, and i can see the different life styles in each outcome, ultimately for me the decision will come to who/if i end up with the right person and what we as a couple want and if we decide to have them if i feel we are in a stable enough relationship and financially stable position to support the kids the way i believe they should be supported.

so as much as you can take advice from one person or another on the topic i truly believe you know whats best in your heart and what you really want, this may indeed change as you age or who you meet as well besides you can always try be for you buy (adopt )


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## mad_at_arms (May 27, 2011)

I don't have kids of my own however I currently have 2 nephews living with me. Previously I had my eldest niece live with me when she was 18 (I am 5 years her senior). Right now the eldest nephew is turning 22 (from my closest(in age) sister) and the other is turning 21 this year (from my eldest brother.) I have had the eldest one with me for 5 years now (did 6-7mths over W.A before failing and returning).
The newest addition has been kicked outta of home then my eldest sisters place after 3mths and now on to me. For every sibling that has offspring I have had (or still somewhat have) hand in shaping the kind of person they are.

ITS A WHOLE LOT OF GODDAMN WORK!! 
Heaven forbid I have my own.


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## Daniel_Penrith (May 27, 2011)

I never wanted kids.... Then my mrs fell pregnant, so i said to hell with it why not, then the ultra sounds, i was keen on a boy, then found out it was a girl. Then the baby is born, then comes the late night trips to the hospital as a paranoid pair of first time parents, changing dirty nappies stayin in while my mates hit the nightclubs and drink themselves blind drunk. Now my daughter is 2 and she gets into everything, tells me no when she doesnt like me doing something but i wouldnt change it for the world and i want another 1 and a girl at that!! 
Its a personal choice i guess, i got a mate who is 30 who lives with a couple of mates. He never wants a relationship and never wants kids. Each to their own.


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## Banjo (May 27, 2011)

I would never want to know what my life would be without my two boys and my wife. Yes they bring heart ache at times but the good times certainly out weigh the bad, this is what being a family is about, sharing the good times and the bad times, makes the family ties grow stronger.
But it isn't for everyone so take your time too make your decision.
It is very sad fact that there are a lot of kids that are not wanted in this world.


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## saximus (May 27, 2011)

It's interesting you guys revived this thread. Since I started it a lot happened on that front and we only recently came to a bit of a decision. Not sure if it's prudent to describe my entire personal life on here but basically it involved a few very difficult weeks trying to come up with a decision, one of the hardest weeks of my life and one very incredible girl who destroyed almost all of my fears in one conversation. For now, the future and direction of my life certainly seems much happier than I feared and will likely contain at least one child.
Thanks again for all your input guys and girls. You definitely all helped


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## pythrulz (May 27, 2011)

Chirldren are all bueatiful a real blessing worth more than all the gold in the world obvisly both partners have to agree they can be naughty but most of the time lots of fun


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## Renenet (May 27, 2011)

saximus said:


> one very incredible girl who destroyed almost all of my fears in one conversation. For now, the future and direction of my life certainly seems much happier than I feared and will likely contain at least one child.



Is this girl your partner, Saximus? If so, you're very lucky and it sounds like whatever you do, you should hang on to her.

We get into quandaries like this sometimes. It's great that you've found the right path out of this one.


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## saximus (May 28, 2011)

Renenet said:


> Is this girl your partner, Saximus? If so, you're very lucky and it sounds like whatever you do, you should hang on to her.
> 
> We get into quandaries like this sometimes. It's great that you've found the right path out of this one.


 Yeah she is . Thanks. I guess it just proves yet again that you can't assume anything and talking about things generally works out much better than you expected


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## fugawi (May 28, 2011)

As long as you and your partner are on the same page, whatever you both do TOGETHER, will be the right thing.


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## texrex (Aug 27, 2011)

I have seen you with your kids Mr Black!! You love them immensly and are an amazing dad, i know you wouldn't trade them for all the money in the world. We may not often plan to have them, but i know personally, you could never live without yours!!!!!!!!


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## Em1986 (Aug 27, 2011)

I just saw this thread pop up again and wanted to say that i am glad you have come to a decision that both of you are happy with.
RRight now i am dealing with a terrible 2's child and it isn't much fun but i still wouldn't change it for the world! I have learnt so much more since having my daughter and it puts your life into perspective and makes you realise what is truely important in life 
When i found out i was pregnant the shop i was working in was about to close down (i was going to quit anyway) so i guess it came at the right time. I now have a 2 1/2 year old daughter and even though things get tough, she is always there with a cuddle and a kiss and the funny things she says and does could turn the worst day of my life into one that is much brighter.


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