# Australia Zoo Survival



## voodoo (Apr 13, 2011)

I recently heard that Australia Zoo is in real financial trouble, And if things dont pick up soon they maybe facing closure. Does anyone have any insight on how true or how serious their situation is?.

Dee


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## keeper10 (Apr 13, 2011)

i heard the same thing awhile ago i would like to know if it is true to mate would be a great shame if it is true


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## Specks (Apr 13, 2011)

apparently they have put of some new exhibits and have layed off a few staff aswell.
just to put your mind at ease they will never close, if it does get to the point where it is near closing, a wealthy miner or someone else will step in and intervein.


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## Emilie (Apr 13, 2011)

Well, it might not be so weird they loose business there. I went once, paid a bloody fortune and the zoo was not even close to being a good zoo. I`ve been to zoo`s around the world, heard so much about Australia zoo, .....and then....well a HUGE disapointment it was. But, I believe the price is whats killing their trade. The average aussie familiy just can not afford to go to a place like that. Yearly pass in Australia zoo cost around $300-400 per person, while in a smaller, but yet really nice place like cairns tropical you pay about $120 for the whole family for a yearly pass.


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

they have been selling off assets for a while to try to regain some footing from the lost business this last summer due to the terrible weather. sold the block next to there 3.2 million dollar mansion. and several other places. but i think they have been trying to keep it on the down low. and yes people did lose jobs, one of my friends lost hers. 

they are ridiculous prices to enter though, 70 odd bucks for an adult to look at some animals, you can get a year pass to all three major zoos, toronga, Adelaide and perth for less than what two entries into there costs.


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## voodoo (Apr 13, 2011)

I went there last year and with my Racq discount card. I paid admission for 5 adults and 2 kids - around $390.00, Than paid Lunch upstairs was nearly $115 (and was still hungry at the end), a photo with koala $22, and bought a few small souveneers for about -$40. And on top of that add cost of travelling there (70 odd kms from Brisbane). Not a cheap day.

We found most of the staff to be miserable, didnt see too many of them smiling, apart from the PR people.
Unfortunatly, I really dont see us going back their again. For the same price (if not less) I will be taking my Overseas visitors to Dreamworld instead.


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## Fuscus (Apr 13, 2011)

The Sunny coast has had a shocking tourist season so is no real surprise that they let some staff go. Couple that with a massive expansion plan that went nowhere and the loss of its main drawcard I would suspect that there is major trouble. Locals avoid it because of cost. There is a lot of conflicting information ATM 
Australia Zoo 'crippled by debt' | National News | Breaking National News in Australia | Sunshine Coast Daily
Zoo calls for local support | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | Sunshine Coast Daily
Zoo declares it will survive | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | Sunshine Coast Daily


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## Dipcdame (Apr 13, 2011)

It's poor Bob Irwin I feel for, having to sit by and watch all his hard work from years ago be plundered and exploited by those now at the helm. I had a feeling nothing good would come of it as soon as Bob was ousted from the place and lost all rights to have a say.
Voodoo, the staff are probably not smiling and being miserable because morale is probably at a very low ebb now, I doubt the staff will be much of a concern to those at the helm. I wonder what Steve would make of it all if he were to come back to see it now?


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## mungus (Apr 13, 2011)

Typical American taking over..............................
Have'nt heard many good reports about her since Steve died.
Jeckle and hyde...........


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## longirostris (Apr 13, 2011)

I visited Australia Zoo with my family about 3 years ago for the first and only time. I was not impressed. It was too expensive for what you actually got. It was also just too big to comfortably stroll around. The quality of the exhibits was ordinary. I hated the Komodo monitor display, it was tragic. If you have been to Komodo (as I have), you will know that their habitat looks nothing like what the animal I saw was displayed in.

I have visited most major zoos and wildlife parks around Australia because of my interest in animals generally and reptiles particularly and feel quite happy to say that there are much better zoos and parks that are much more customer friendly then Australia Zoo. I don't know why but they had this ridiculous idea that bigger is better, maybe its the american connection. I can tell you it is not. I don't know why people think zoos and wildlife displays have to be huge to be good. Most people want to wander around for no more then 2 to 3 hours, 4 hours tops and see everything. More importantly they want to see animals displayed really well.

Go and have a look Cairns Zoo or Canberra Zoo or even Mogo zoo which is one of my favorites. These people know what they are doing. The Sumatran tigers at Australia Zoo come from Mogo zoo. The Snow Leopards that you see at Canberra Zoo come from Mogo Zoo. The white lions at Taronga Zoo come from Mogo Zoo. What do these zoos all have in common? They are not too big that they loose sight of what they initially set out to do. To display the animals in their care in the most natural and best possible environment that will promote quality of life and facilitate successful breeding programs. 

Most zoos have some success with captive breeding, usually more a result of the quality of the keeper involved then the zoo itself. But some zoos do it consistently, which is generally a reflection of overall management programs including training and retaining committed keepers. Again I come back to Mogo zoo. They are probably the most successful zoo in Australia with their big cat breeding program. But they breed many other species as well including Red Pandas, small clawed otters, various monkey species and others. 

I actually live about 60 kilometers from Mogo Zoo so it is the closest one to me. But in all honesty if I was asked which Zoo I would want go back to if I was going tommorrow, I would say Mogo and have indeed done so many times. Interestingly their reptile collection is not that great but the work they do with the other animals in their care is outstanding. For a private zoo that relies almost entirely on gate entry fees and sponsorships/memberships they do a great job. 

As I said earlier I have visited most major and smaller zoos and wildlife parks around Australia, a considerable number of these more then once. But I doubt that I would ever visit Australia Zoo again because to me it was a major disappointment, It was trying to be a theme park with animals, and the focus was more on entertainment then education or conservation. I know there is a fine line between all of these ideals and that some would say entertainment allows you to sell your conservation and education message, but to me they were too focussed on the entertainment and not really focussed on the stuff that makes a zoo truly great.

Give credit where credit is due though. I read in todays Melbourne Herald Sun that a baby rhinoceros was born at Australia Zoo in the last few days. So I have to say well done on such a terrific outcome. Rhino's are one of the most majestic and vulnerable animals on the planet. Every breeding success is a wonderful achievement. Well done to the keeper.


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## kawasakirider (Apr 13, 2011)

I've never been to Australia Zoo. I was going to go, but got sick on the way there and pulled the pin on the idea. This was just before Steve died, and I never bothered trying to go back.

I don't know what the zoo is like, but as longirostris said, it seems to be about the wow factor (which is important and probably why I'd go to a zoo), but at what cost? Terri letting bindi wade through the water with a 4m saltie was grossly irresponsible, no matter how you look at it. A few cheers aren't worth attempting a stunt like that.

I've been to the wildlife sanctuary at Currumbin, and Taronga Zoo a couple of times. They are both great! I've also been to Dubbo, but I don't remember it very well.


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## Danger_Mouse (Apr 13, 2011)

When Steve died, that's when Australia Zoo obviously took it's biggest hit. There target was American/Asian tourists and their money. Obviously Steve was huge in the States and that obviously was the biggest draw card to the zoo, being able to see Steve. Now with his passing, Terri is pushing Bindi into his shoes to draw the crowds and no doubt Bob will follow suit.

Being a Zoo, there biggest revenue is tourists, which QLD isn't simply getting this year due to the natural disaters we've had this year. They should really just get back to basics and create a good day out and value for money for Families. Myself and my partner have been wanting to go with her little girl, but I can't simply justify the few hundred dollars (which I don't have) to go there for a day. When we could simply go to Currumbin, see basically the same animals (except a few of course) for almost half the price. 

Would they be in the same situation if Steve was still around?


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## Dipcdame (Apr 13, 2011)

mungus said:


> Typical American taking over..............................
> Have'nt heard many good reports about her since Steve died.
> Jeckle and hyde...........


 
Agreed, although I wasn't going to go quite that far!! It's the owners living on the name of a dead man, trying to be more like hollywood stars than zoo owners. I doubt the downslide has been due to the economic downturn in the State, that may have had a small part, but it's people taking over and thinking they have an income without putting too much back into the park/business. I've never been there, and will never go now.


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## sarah_m (Apr 13, 2011)

longirostris;1929914
I don't know why but they had this ridiculous idea that bigger is better said:


> I know what you mean. I went to Australia Zoo in 1994 when it was a tiny wildlife park that you could comfortably walk around in an hour.
> 
> Steve and Terri did the snake show on the lawn with all the visitors standing around them in a circle. It had such a friendly feel about it. It was my favorite park.
> 
> ...


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## harley0402 (Apr 13, 2011)

i have been there twice and i love it, I got to touch and feed the rhinos and tortoises, it was awesome. How can you people put crap on it, you should be supporting it, yeah the zoo was doing better when steve was alive but, terry is giving it her best while raising 2 kids on her own. Get a life.


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## Shadow86 (Apr 13, 2011)

I went there not to long ago,son in tow of course.When i got there i got the feeling not of a family run zoo but of a over priced theme park.They seem to have lost the conservation message or a down to earth atmosphere i had seen years ago when i was a kid.I heard that also they had over bought in the land side of things and struggle now to maintain these assets. It should or would not close, someone will pick it up as it is a aussie icon really.


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## KaotikJezta (Apr 13, 2011)

harley0402 said:


> i have been there twice and i love it, I got to touch and feed the rhinos and tortoises, it was awesome. How can you people put crap on it, you should be supporting it, yeah the zoo was doing better when steve was alive but, terry is giving it her best while raising 2 kids on her own. Get a life.


Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Disney essentially raising the kids, financially anyway. I have no sympathy for Terri, she sold the zoo's soul to Disney for a quick profit.


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## snakeluvver (Apr 13, 2011)

I love Australia zoo. Yes it costs a lot but the animals are cared for very well and they have pretty good exhibits.


longirostris said:


> The quality of the exhibits was ordinary. I hated the Komodo monitor display, it was tragic. If you have been to Komodo (as I have), you will know that their habitat looks nothing like what the animal I saw was displayed in.


 The Komodo exhibit is sand at one end, grass at the other. Yep its not like the natural habitat but most people on here dont keep their reptiles in a replica of the natural habitat. It looks completely fine.
The enclosures are extremely spacious, the elephants have a one acre day exhitbit and at night they are moved to a huge 10 acre enclosure. They do care for their animals very well and they replicate the natural environment very well in most enclosures.


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## harley0402 (Apr 13, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Disney essentially raising the kids, financially anyway. I have no sympathy for Terri, she sold the zoo's soul to Disney for a quick profit.



Yeah well., if you lose your husband and are left with 2 kids and a zoo that steve made that big, we will see how you cope.


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## Smithers (Apr 13, 2011)

harley0402 said:


> i have been there twice and i love it, I got to touch and feed the rhinos and tortoises, it was awesome. How can you people put crap on it, you should be supporting it, yeah the zoo was doing better when steve was alive but, terry is giving it her best while raising 2 kids on her own. Get a life.



Hmmm a 3 million dollar house would feed a few animals for a while.....perspectives please.


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## harley0402 (Apr 13, 2011)

Smithers said:


> Hmmm a 3 million dollar house would feed a few animals for a while.....perspectives please.



dude, if you had the money they had when steve was alive, im sure you would have a 3 million dollar house too.

just look at what your signature says......


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## Danger_Mouse (Apr 13, 2011)

She doesn't run the zoo by herself, there is a panel of directors that look after the Trust in which the zoo is named in.


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

harley0402 said:


> i have been there twice and i love it, I got to touch and feed the rhinos and tortoises, it was awesome. How can you people put crap on it, you should be supporting it, yeah the zoo was doing better when steve was alive but, terry is giving it her best while raising 2 kids on her own. Get a life.


 
Australia zoo doesn't have rhinos, your thinking of somewhere else.

i also think that terri head has increased in size substantially since Steve death, and there are things that have been done that shouldn't have been


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## wranga (Apr 13, 2011)

they lost their major attraction. hope terri and the kids pull through this and make as much as they can from it all


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Apr 13, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> Australia zoo doesn't have rhinos, your thinking of somewhere else.
> 
> i also think that terri head has increased in size substantially since Steve death, and there are things that have been done that shouldn't have been


 
sorry but your wrong about the no rhino's
Australia Zoo - Our Animals - Animal Encounters - Ripper Rhinos


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## snakeluvver (Apr 13, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> Australia zoo doesn't have rhinos, your thinking of somewhere else.


 
Yeah they do, just not on display. They also have giraffes and lemurs off display.


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## Danger_Mouse (Apr 13, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> Australia zoo doesn't have rhinos, your thinking of somewhere else.
> 
> i also think that terri head has increased in size substantially since Steve death, and there are things that have been done that shouldn't have been



White rhinoceros born at Australia Zoo


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

my mistake they must be new, as i went through with school a few years back and did the whole behind the scenes do.


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## Smithers (Apr 13, 2011)

harley0402 said:


> dude, if you had the money they had when steve was alive, im sure you would have a 3 million dollar house too.
> 
> just look at what your signature says......



Dudette, No I would not waste that amount of money on a dwelling not matter how rich I was,..

Yes it's a wish list,..it could mean I wish for world peace for all you know


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

the zoo will go under before they sell the house. no way they would risk losing the zoo and a $3200000 home


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## Specks (Apr 13, 2011)

They have all the African animals of exhibit I'm pretty sure as because of the finacial worries they haven't finished the African section



giglamesh said:


> the zoo will go under before they sell the house. no way they would risk losing the zoo and a $3200000 home


there is alot more money wrapped in the zoo, I'm pretty sure they would get rid of the house before the zoo.
You kidding :S


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

perhaps i worded wrongly, there not going to sell off there personal assets well all of them at least, just because if the fecal matter hits the fan there left with nothing


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## kawasakirider (Apr 13, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> the zoo will go under before they sell the house. no way they would risk losing the zoo and a $3200000 home


 
I know what asset I'd rather hold onto....


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## cleobhp (Apr 13, 2011)

Maybe she should just stick to jettsetting, instead of looking after the zoo, I'm sure there would be a few other shows her kids haven't done yet, that they know nothing about. She is a joke if you ask me, especially with what she did to Bob. Bob and his wife put their heart and soul into that park and now he is not even allowed on it, I mean she only has 1 thing on her mind and that's to make as much money out of it as she can and I reckon if the zoo goes under she will be gone, never to be seen again.


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## harley0402 (Apr 13, 2011)

Smithers said:


> Dudette, No I would not waste that amount of money on a dwelling not matter how rich I was,..
> 
> Yes it's a wish list,..it could mean I wish for world peace for all you know



Oh yeah as if dudette.....ppppffft


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 13, 2011)

Interesting how people here speak of 'Steve' as though he was their best mate. The Irwins were always vehemently against private individuals keeping reptiles, so although his death was a terrible tragedy and a loss for the zoo, reptile keepers lost only an advocate _against_ their hobby. Behind all that enthusiasm and energy was a huge PR machine with no thought for 'fellow' reptile keepers. Most of us would be full of beans if we were able to earn tens of thousands of dollars a day.

J


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

but what should we refer to him as? the late Mr irwin?


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 13, 2011)

Irwin jnr would do nicely...


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## giglamesh (Apr 13, 2011)

lol


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## hrafna (Apr 13, 2011)

i would prefer to pay 170 to play with the cheetahs at canberra zoo than travel to qld and go to that zoo!


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## kawasakirider (Apr 13, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Interesting how people here speak of 'Steve' as though he was their best mate. The Irwins were always vehemently against private individuals keeping reptiles, so although his death was a terrible tragedy and a loss for the zoo, reptile keepers lost only an advocate _against_ their hobby. Behind all that enthusiasm and energy was a huge PR machine with no thought for 'fellow' reptile keepers. Most of us would be full of beans if we were able to earn tens of thousands of dollars a day.
> 
> J


 
Wow, that's interesting. I had no idea.


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## Miss_Stripey (Apr 13, 2011)

Australia Zoo should listen to the customers if its too expensive people only do it once. You need a good rate for returning visitors because once you go in again you might like to sit down have lunch or buy a drink and spend a little money each time. And if you can comeback afford-ably each time you will bring all your visitors with you to and give more money to the zoo. if everyone only went once then when everybody went you would run out of business altogether. You only use one coffin.
I hope they do get better because regardless of the stupid prices Australia Zoo is one of our great advertising campaigns like the great Barrier Reef and the Sydney Opera House and people come over here just to see it. Thus helping out the smaller guys along the way  The TV royalties should go into helping it out!


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## junglepython2 (Apr 13, 2011)

It is expensive but I think it is was one of the better zoo's around by far. I think the large size is great, there is nothing worse then standing 5 people deep on tippy toes to get a glimpse of an animal.


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 13, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Interesting how people here speak of 'Steve' as though he was their best mate. The Irwins were always vehemently against private individuals keeping reptiles, so although his death was a terrible tragedy and a loss for the zoo, reptile keepers lost only an advocate _against_ their hobby. Behind all that enthusiasm and energy was a huge PR machine with no thought for 'fellow' reptile keepers. Most of us would be full of beans if we were able to earn tens of thousands of dollars a day.
> 
> J


 
It is surprising how few of "todays keepers" are aware of this fact, especially the ones that idolise the crochunter theme


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## Smithers (Apr 13, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> The Irwins were always vehemently against private individuals keeping reptiles, so although his death was a terrible tragedy and a loss for the zoo, reptile keepers lost only an advocate _against_ their hobby. Behind all that enthusiasm and energy was a huge PR machine with no thought for 'fellow' reptile keepers. Most of us would be full of beans if we were able to earn tens of thousands of dollars a day.
> 
> Crickey,...Did not know,..Do we know what there reasoning was behind this was for Jamie ?
> 
> P.S. Never idolised him (Steve), quite the opposite actually I thought he needing a good dose of Ritalin.


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## kawasakirider (Apr 13, 2011)

Bredlislave said:


> It is surprising how few of "todays keepers" are aware of this fact, especially the ones that idolise the crochunter theme


 
I tried looking it up, but I couldn't find anything on it. Is there an interview floating around where he state's he is against it? I'd love to watch.


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## killimike (Apr 13, 2011)

I have always been ambivalent about him and his enterprises, but I also had no idea him and his dad were against private individuals holding reptiles.


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## longirostris (Apr 14, 2011)

Bredlislave said:


> It is surprising how few of "todays keepers" are aware of this fact, especially the ones that idolise the crochunter theme



It is indeed. I cringe every time I see a post idolising and hero worshipping someone who was completely against private keeping of reptiles. It is funny how many people don't know that one of the main blockers of the release of new species into the private hobby from institutional collections was the late Steve Irwin. He did not do private reptile keepers any favours whatsoever with his ostructionist approach to making more species available for us. Every time ARAZPA met to discuss a proposal to release new species from their institutions to hobbyists and private reptile keepers his was the most vocal voice saying no.

Nice enough guy on TV and no doubt has done some great things promoting Australia generally but private reptile keeping was not one of them.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

longirostris said:


> It is indeed. I cringe every time I see a post idolising and hero worshipping someone who was completely against private keeping of reptiles. It is funny how many people don't know that one of the main blockers of the release of new species into the private hobby from institutional collections was the late Steve Irwin. He did not do private reptile keepers any favours whatsoever with his ostructionist approach to making more species available for us. Every time ARAZPA met to discuss a proposal to release new species from their institutions to hobbyists and private reptile keepers his was the most vocal voice saying no.
> 
> Nice enough guy on TV and no doubt has done some great things promoting Australia generally but private reptile keeping was not one of them.



So people are going to dislike him for that. Deadset, look at all the stuff he has done for conservation and awareness in Australia and around the world and you fault him because he wanted to restrict what we kept. Get with it and look at what is important.


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## longirostris (Apr 14, 2011)

Specks said:


> So people are going to dislike him for that. Deadset, look at all the stuff he has done for conservation and awareness in Australia and around the world and you fault him because he wanted to restrict what we kept. Get with it and look at what is important.



Here we go again. Another smart [deleted] that thinks he knows everything and has earned the right to be disrespectful to someone who was making a true and valid contribution to an already existing topic. DON'T TELL ME TO GET WITH IT. Maybe you should take some of your own advice. Did I not acknowledge the great work that he did in the last line of my post? Where in my post did I say that I did not like him? If other people don't like him for whatever reason why is that my problem? Me personally, I actually quite enjoyed the "Ockery" persona portrayed to the world. All I said and still say is that if you are a genuine private keeper of reptiles then you should be aware that he did as much as he possibly could to make sure you could not get any more and if he had his way he would have taken what you had off you.

Mate, next time you want to have a go at somebody who has made a comment about an issue that you don't agree with or don't like, do us all a favour and make sure you read what the other person has actually said first. You might actually make a valuable contribution and more importantly save yourself the embarassment [deleted]


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## killimike (Apr 14, 2011)

I am happy to say that I like him alot less after being made aware of this, regardless of any other conservation or awareness work, as the two are unrelated. He could have championed conservation and not opposed private reptile keeping, let alone supported it.


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## eipper (Apr 14, 2011)

I am sure there court transcripts with Mr Irwin in a number of cases up here, ripping into private keepers and how they are a blight on reptiles......or then there is the re release of varanids (more than one species) back into national parks after being kept in rooms with reptiles that have various health ailments...just so private keepers or other zoos could not keep them...so they can remain the only one.....away from the public he had a major chip on his shoulder towards keepers


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

Specks said:


> Deadset, look at all the stuff he has done for conservation and awareness in Australia



You seem to know a lot, so tell us - what exactly had SI done for conservation that he didn't get paid for or didn't collect some favors such as exclusive filming rights? Please be specific and reference your statements.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 14, 2011)

I liked SI for what he was a TV/film person, got too see some nice scenery of Australia through his show that I have not seen personally. He can keep his hands off my collection though....


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> He can keep his hands off my collection though....



I think he will.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 14, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> I think he will.



lol you know what i meant smart alec lol


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## sarah_m (Apr 14, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> The Irwins were always vehemently against private individuals keeping reptiles,


 
Does this include Bob? If so, does anyone else find it strange that he is a regular contributor to S&T magazine and supports their annual reptile festival, which is aimed at the reptile keeping community? I do not mean this in a bad way, I am genuinely interested in the answer if anyone knows.


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## hrafna (Apr 14, 2011)

i think he did do good stuff for conservation and trying to bring awareness to the mass public about how animals really are, but at the same time i don't like his ideas about keepers. having said all of that i am sure many people would like to contribute to conservation as much as he did, they just don't know how to get started. also being born into the family he was, would have been a great head start!


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

I can't say for sure but Bob has got much more relaxed opinion on reptile keeping. I also thing that SI was heavily influenced and directed by his close guards and the whole PR / political machinery at Australia Zoo. Nonetheless, he was the mouthpiece and the front man, hence the blame rests on him.


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## giglamesh (Apr 14, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> You seem to know a lot, so tell us - what exactly had SI done for conservation that he didn't get paid for or didn't collect some favors such as exclusive filming rights? Please be specific and reference your statements.


at a guess i would say these types of things happened before he was famous more so when he took his dog and a hand-held camera around on his adventures


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

im not having a go at you but people tell me they dislike the guy because of those actions and i dont understand why, he probably had valid reasons to express his view and the man knows what he is doing.

sorry longirostris


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 14, 2011)

So people are going to dislike him for that.

NO....It is not about disliking a person for their ideals/beliefs, etc.

YES ...Some of us strive for different goals


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## giglamesh (Apr 14, 2011)

what were the reasons behind him not wanting the general public? 
perhaps he didnt want people keeping them as it increases the likelihood of illegal importation, exportation and exploitation of the animals.
plus im sure there are people out there that get pets and then lose interest in them. and lets be honest reptiles as a pet could be classed as boring. they dont play with you, there not something to show affection... more of a look but dont touch animal


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## killimike (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, dislike suggests personal animosity or something, I never met him and didn't know him, but I can disagree with things he did or believed, and that very strongly.

But all this 'Hey he must've had his reasons/knew what he was doing' talk is just inconsistent, if we don't have the right to opinions on the 'goals' or behaviour or beliefs of people we don't know personally, then why tell people off on a forum?


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

Back to the topic, I think the Zoo lost sense of direction. Not that it ever had any but Steve was bringing the money in and plenty of it, so didn't really matter that much. Now, the draw card is gone and the lack of direction is showing. Other Zoos and suffering from the tourism downturn just the same, some have contingency plans in plans, some don't.


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## veenarm (Apr 14, 2011)

I've only been to a few zoos and they have been ok.

As a kid growing up it was Taronga Zoo yeh was large, wasn't my thing at the time, no one on one time really with animals.
Symbio Zoo/Park (Not sure how many people know of it, it's inbetween Wollongong and Sydney) was my favourite little park and I don't know if it still exists.

In later years, I've been to Cairns Zoo & Canberra Zoo and they are both very nice, not overly large but focus on certain aspects and very friendly! Also the 'Venom Zoo' in Cairns was a cool attraction


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

veenarm said:


> Also the 'Venom Zoo' in Cairns was a cool attraction



"Cool" it is, in the true sense of the word. "Freezing shocker" would be my description. Have you met the owner? Now that's an experience!


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## saximus (Apr 14, 2011)

That Venom Zoo was the worst "zoo" I've ever been to. Enclosures full of old sheds and crap. Ven feeding displays where all viewers must stand on the second level in case the incompetent handler allows one to exit its enclosure ucontrolled. Continually, loudly reassuring me that I have nothing to fear while holding their scrubby even though I just told them I own reps and have no fear of snakes. A "tour" around the spider/lizard area by a robot-like guide (I'm still not entirely convinced he wasn't a cyborg) who couldn't answer simple questions. Sorry just had to add that. 
Back onto Aus. Zoo...


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## veenarm (Apr 14, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> "Cool" it is, in the true sense of the word. "Freezing shocker" would be my description. Have you met the owner? Now that's an experience!


 
No I didn't but I held a lovely blackhead python and checked out all the other venomous bad boys  Then you had the guy holding the tarantulas etc scorpions and everything else... I will definitely go back and visit.



saximus said:


> That Venom Zoo was the worst "zoo" I've ever been to. Enclosures full of old sheds and crap. Ven feeding displays where all viewers must stand on the second level in case the incompetent handler allows one to exit its enclosure ucontrolled. Continually, loudly reassuring me that I have nothing to fear while holding their scrubby even though I just told them I own reps and have no fear of snakes. A "tour" around the spider/lizard area by a robot-like guide (I'm still not entirely convinced he wasn't a cyborg) who couldn't answer simple questions. Sorry just had to add that.
> Back onto Aus. Zoo...


 
It's small, and for the $9 or what ever its an experience that doesn't suck your time or wallet, but yes i agree its in a tinny shed and they could be looked after better than they were. The tour guide we had was good so I can't comment to that aspect!


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## longirostris (Apr 14, 2011)

*Apology*



Specks said:


> im not having a go at you but people tell me they dislike the guy because of those actions and i dont understand why, he probably had valid reasons to express his view and the man knows what he is doing.
> 
> sorry longirostris


 
Specks, 

May I also offer you my apologies, I get a little frustrated sometimes and every now and then I don't do what I was suggesting you should do. Think. 

Your graciousness was very much appreciated and shows a level of maturity that I did not give you credit for. Thank you very much.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

longirostris said:


> Specks,
> 
> May I also offer you my apologies, I get a little frustrated sometimes and every now and then I don't do what I was suggesting you should do. Think.
> 
> Your graciousness was very much appreciated and shows a level of maturity that I did not give you credit for. Thank you very much.




thankyou. i appreciate the comments and i am glad to see you are not like a heap of people on here that give a spray and think nothing of it. i can see you are genuine and i am glad to see that. we are all human but only some can acknowledge that and you show that.

cheers


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## eipper (Apr 14, 2011)

Specks,

He was an informant for the wildlife authorities....after he was busted they gave him the option..give people up or wear the consquences, he wore wires, phone tapped calls the whole nine yards to try and get people in trouble to get himself out of the ....

He was anti keepers because he wanted to be the only one who could work with herps...and everyone compared to him where novices...an egotistical point of view but from business sense...if they had the only snakes, crocs etc it makes them more of a drawcard to the zoo.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Waterrat (Apr 14, 2011)

Scott, I admire you for having the gust to say it as it was. No fuss, this is the truth! I could tell a story or two but this thread is about the Zoo, not about "Him" (as many naive people saw him) but lets leave it to that.

Cheers
Michael


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## mungus (Apr 14, 2011)

once dead and buried the truth does come out...........................
Shines a new light on the man.................sad really.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

Mungus I really do agree with you, we celebrate his life as he really was great for us as a country but because some reptile keepers saw his otherside they have a totally different view.
Lets move off him and back to the zoo. The zoo has done good things but yes is pricey, it is a buisness yes?


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## giglamesh (Apr 14, 2011)

yes, but its like a lot of things from a sales point of view your better off lowering the price and getting a higher turn over which could increase the overall net profit from admission into the park, rather than going larger profit per ticket, but less ticket sales. its been said before but i will say it again for locals you go once maybe twice if you have visitors or something but for the cost there are better places to go.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree giglamesh and with the financial crisis and the view of overseas tourists that think queesland is a disaster, they have really struggled
but I do think they will renew themselves and find a new way to do it.
their last name is Irwin, determination is what they are. Steve and the family didn't get therebwithout it did they.


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

What about Bob Irwin he got arrested the other day, i care more for him than some wannabe popstar tourist park. Better spending money to help him, he is interested in real conservation rather than a poorly designed money grabbing venture. I can understand kids thinking Australia Zoo is cool but any adults supporting them should be looking carefully at what they are doing.

I hope the owners of Australia Zoo go broke so it can be used for a postive purpose.

While i think he was exteremly ignorant i have learnt a small amount of respect for Steve Irwins hypocritcal hatred of captive reptile keeping. That said i dont really care much what he thinks or thought, i just watched his shows to see the cool setups with awesome critters(not to watch some tosser dancing around to degrade the image of aussies and nark on reptile keepers without any credibility of his own*(so i have heard from a few sources)). I also keep reptiles and dislike the way many others treat them, but IMO that is their business rather than something to impose upon them from some imaginary high horse.


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## giglamesh (Apr 14, 2011)

the way he acts is the reason he became so popular worldwide, if not for his showmanship i doubt the zoo would be what it is today.... well what it was just before he died.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

What did bob get arrested for ?


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## giglamesh (Apr 14, 2011)

protesting 
Bob Irwin arrested at gas protest - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## Darlyn (Apr 14, 2011)

I have a friend who lives near the zoo, I have stayed at her place and she asked did I want to there.
Apart from the exhorbitant price I had no intention of donating my $ to someone who annoyed the crap out of animals
to make a living. 
I also hated the advertising campaign asking for donations to save "Steve's place" when he got the land (Northern Qsld) for free off the government. Why as Australians we should gift our land to someone who is already rolling in it is beyond me.


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> the way he acts is the reason he became so popular worldwide, if not for his showmanship i doubt the zoo would be what it is today.... well what it was just before he died.


 
Yeah it was much better a long time before he was infamous. Then again it didnt have all the typical zoo stuff, just cool Aussie critters and a few of the more interesting herps from overseas along with nice staff that would be happy to talk and show you stuff. When people get into showbz they become egotistical trash, especially if the come from nothing and aim for it like those running the place now IMO.


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## Australis (Apr 14, 2011)

I absolutely agree with you Darlyn. 
Given the government favoritism displayed in the past, i wouldnt be surprised
if the government "bailed" them out of this apparent predicament. 

I think its disappointing the Irwin Juggernaut did seemingly nothing for local species
like The Nangur Spiny Skink and Mary River Turtle.


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

Australis said:


> I absolutely agree with you Darlyn.
> Given the government favoritism displayed in the past, i wouldnt be surprised
> if the government "bailed" them out of this apparent predicament.
> 
> ...


 
The labor government is screwed, I dont theink the Newman would be interested in supporting popstar phonies. Also dont drag down the Irwin name, Bob Irwin is doing everything he can, thats why he has nothing to do with the zoo anymore.


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## Specks (Apr 14, 2011)

Australis said:


> I absolutely agree with you Darlyn.
> Given the government favoritism displayed in the past, i wouldnt be surprised
> if the government "bailed" them out of this apparent predicament.
> 
> ...



Really, bob is all over the Mary river turtle. I've only seen him do talks about the turtles


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## Darlyn (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks Australis.
The government favouritism also extended to the minister for (I think environment) asking
for Steves' advice on the culling of crocs in the Top End. Steve decided it was a bad thing so it was canned.
However the crocs where being (and still are) killed when they pose a threat. They were trying to make it so it was governed
and Aboriginal people would make money out of it but Steve said no. Celebrity obviously makes you a government advisor.



Okay I've vented now and I'm sure the government will shell out our money to save the circus.


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## cris (Apr 14, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> and Aboriginal people would make money out of it but Steve said no.


 
Crocs should have a max. size and bag limit like fish and suitable reserves to preserve the population. 
In Qld large crocs have special protection, but they still trap them and move them at massive cost, its useful for research but otherwise a waste of time. Like most animals its important to protect the big ones and harvest the smaller more tasty ones, in a way that doesnt damage populations or genetic intergrity.


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## Darlyn (Apr 14, 2011)

where Aboriginal people live. Where some crocodiles are problematic. They are going to be killed anyway
(have you seen Gordo's threads re same?).
There are trophy hunters who pay a lot of money for this. Why wouldn't you utilise this and give some people 
who have no way of earning an income in remote communities an opportunity to be employed?
Do you also think there should be open season on killing crocs?


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## Darlyn (Apr 15, 2011)

I was talking about Aboriginal land where Aboriginal people live. So, yes geographically they are seperate.
I think you may be a tad prejudiced yourself.
Your ridiculous lambasting of the government is a moot point.
I think you are a bit of a ====D
Have a lovely evening.


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## saximus (Apr 15, 2011)

lol I'm glad I stayed up to watch this thread now. These fights are always fun to see.
Now I finally understand why the "old hats" on here never have anything nice to say whenever Steve Irwin's name comes up. I'd love to hear about the other things that people have hinted at.
As for the zoo, maybe I don't understand the details properly but it seems like basic business strategy and they deserve to fail if they are going to make it so ridiculously expensive just to walk in the door


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## Snakeluvver2 (Apr 15, 2011)

Simple
Bob Irwin - putting his money where his mouth is and helping the environment
Steve Irwin - Total tool 
Terri - Probably screwed herself with the lack of direction.


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## Waterrat (Apr 15, 2011)

I asked Specks what has SI done for conservation in Australia. Still no answer from him, so can anyone else comment? Please facts only, not just hearsay.


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## Laghairt (Apr 15, 2011)

Playing devil's advocate here Michael, he certainly did a lot to raise awareness of conservation issues and familiarize the public with species that should be protected. I know this somewhat intangible but it is true nonetheless.


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## SamNabz (Apr 15, 2011)

Rondo said:


> Playing devil's advocate here Michael, he certainly did a lot to raise awareness of conservation issues and familiarize the public with species that should be protected. I know this somewhat intangible but it is true nonetheless.


 
I think you are missing Michael's point here Rondo. A lot of people 'assume' SI did a lot, but Michael is asking for solid proof.

You've proved absolutely nothing...


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## snakeluvver (Apr 15, 2011)

I kinda like steve because his shows educated a lot of people, yeah he was paid but if it wasnt for his shows my mum would still be a snake hater.


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## viridis (Apr 15, 2011)

cris said:


> You may be a bit racist considering you consider aboriginals to be seperate, but i wasnt meaning to call you a degenerate, that part directected at our racist government. I dont see any reason why 'race' should exist for humans or even skin colour have any influence on your right to sustainably eat wildlife or live on land. Why should someone have a racist privilage to kill a tasty croc sustainably when a person of differant colour or lacking native title cant? (not to say killing under native title is sustainable but im not going to write a massive post).


 
If you think that Indigenous people in remote communities live the same peachy life you do in Brisbane you are wrong mate. I am not stating whether it is right or wrong however you are way off in your above statement that in todays day and age, aboriginals are still not separated.

I have lived in remote communities for the last 6 years in W.A and QLD and it is not all clear cut with every Indigenous person supporting killing countless native animals.

Irwin was a clown who hated the fact that he was busted with illegal wildlife and made a point of ratting out any other private keeper that was having more success than he was. I find it ironic that he was killed whilst annoying the hell out of native wildlife that he exploited to make his millions!

I can only imagine the smirk on Buckleys face when he heard the news of Irwins demise! It would have been priceless to see.

In regards to the future of the Zoo, I am sure the government will bail them out, so no need to worry. How will a business learn if they have the government to lean on during hard times?


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## Waterrat (Apr 15, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I kinda like steve because his shows educated a lot of people, yeah he was paid but if it wasnt for his shows my mum would still be a snake hater.



There are hundreds of reptile demonstrators doing just that only most of them don't that kind of exposure. I am not sure if free-handling dangerous snakes on TV is the right sort of education. 
Let me rephrase my question - what has he done for conservation in Australia that didn't earn him money or gains in kind?


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## waruikazi (Apr 15, 2011)

cris said:


> You may be a bit racist considering you consider aboriginals to be seperate, but i wasnt meaning to call you a degenerate, that part directected at our racist government. I dont see any reason why 'race' should exist for humans or even skin colour have any influence on your right to sustainably eat wildlife or live on land. *Why should someone have a racist privilage to kill a tasty croc* sustainably when a person of differant colour or lacking native title cant? (not to say killing under native title is sustainable but im not going to write a massive post).



They sure as hell are not tasty! I'll tell you that for free. 

Darlyn and Cris, you're both arguing the same point. I think it is also important to add that while there is still a technical ban on 'trophy hunting' crocs, if you know the right people anyone can legally go out and shoot a trophy crocodile and obtain permits from parks and wildlife to keep the animals products.

As for what SI did for conservation. I don't think anyone can argue that he did nothing. He locked up reasonably large areas of land from being cleared and devolped. 

He wasn't the first and he wont be the last of what he was. He was just the one who got the most attention.


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## Laghairt (Apr 15, 2011)

LOL, well when you put it like that, it's hard to come up with anything.


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## Specks (Apr 15, 2011)

Jannico said:


> Simple
> Bob Irwin - putting his money where his mouth is and helping the environment
> Steve Irwin - Total tool
> Terri - Probably screwed herself with the lack of direction.


 
really jannico really?
so you you are basically putting it that it would of been better off that steve and terri never existed.
if find utter disgust in this post


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## Waterrat (Apr 15, 2011)

waruikazi said:


> As for what SI did for conservation. I don't think anyone can argue that he did nothing. He locked up reasonably large areas of land from being cleared and devolped.



How much is the "locked up land" worth (to the family)? I had to lough when missus Irwin mortally shot herself in the foot. After they acquired the Cape York property, which is an ex- cattle grazing land and came to them with x number head of cattle worth x number of $$$, she said in a press release "we are going to keep the cattle there because they're now part of the Cape York ecology".  I guess her advisors had a day off. That's conservation for you.


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 15, 2011)

Steve Irwin no doubt generated good tourism dollars for the country, was great entertainment and yes, promoted conservation through the media outlets.
That however doesn't mean he was clean behind the scenes which I can confirm he wasn't. I know that he and a comrade illegally removed green pythons from a national park when his collection permit was about to expire and he had come up empty handed. 
Perhaps I would have done the same thing in that situation but I am just stating what happened. 
One thing I didn't like the bloke for though, was he simply was a real (deleted) to many of my good reptile keeping friends, a hyporcrite, a liar and arguably a fauna thief. Balancing it all out though and in the bigger picture I guess he was worth while.


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## spotlight (Apr 15, 2011)

i find this funny!! you start picking on jags and your tread gets removed but if you pick on a person who has past away and his still alive family it is left alone to go on and on ???.
im not a steve lover but i believe in respect!!.


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## Waterrat (Apr 15, 2011)

spotlight said:


> but i believe in respect!!.



and I believe in the truth. Respectful truth.
It seems that too many, specially young people have been misguided.


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 15, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> and I believe in the truth. Respectful truth.
> It seems that too many, specially young people have been misguided.


 
And I will second the above .. 
Young people are our future and they have the right to know the truth
Cheers
Sandee


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## fugawi (Apr 15, 2011)

I seem to remember seeing somewhere they bought a lot of ex-farmland and replanted with native plants and trees preparing for the re-release of native animals....how did that end up?


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## Ozzie Python (Apr 15, 2011)

Bredlislave said:


> And I will second the above ..
> Young people are our future and they have the right to know the truth
> Cheers
> Sandee


 
i agree sandee, we just got to get someone to tell us the truth and tales of you older herpers  

there are a number of old threads on this site that people can search and read up on. i found a few interesting ones a while ago regarding gtp's and court case results, or lack of results for some. certainly opened my eyes up to what used to go on in the good old days.


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## saximus (Apr 15, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> and I believe in the truth. Respectful truth.
> It seems that too many, specially young people have been misguided.


 
I don't know the details (I'd love someone to PM me with more specifics about it ) but I agree entirely with this statement. Just because someone is dead, all of their bad actions don't disappear. Someone who is seen as such a "role model" should be described how they really are/were, good and bad


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## Snakeluvver2 (Apr 15, 2011)

> really jannico really?
> so you you are basically putting it that it would of been better off that steve and terri never existed.
> if find utter disgust in this post



Never said that at all. I just simply stated that Terri is screwed, Australia Zoo will never be at the status it was when Steve was alive and Steve was a ****a. 
What's your problem, that I don't like someone you do?
Steve was hypocrite, straight off the bat, at least his dad is and generally always was doing something for the environment rather than making a joke of himself on TV and you can argue that Steve did many things for conservation, but give me some clear cut examples like Waterrat said? 
Disgusting? No, you just can't read.


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## Waterrat (Apr 15, 2011)

Some believe that S.I. has done a lot for research. Let me tell you one story - a factual one:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

The crocodile tracking research few years ago was conducted by a senior QPWS officer xxxxxxx (can't name him here). S.I. financed the cost of transmitters and satellite tracking time. In return, he secured himself an exclusive filming rights (catching crocs, mounting transmitters, release, etc.) which translates to a lot of money once sold to the media. On top of that, he was allowed to run a tourist operation on Lakefield NP. Do you remember the ads ..... "spend 3 days with S.I. on his luxury research vessel in Lakefield ...."? Other tour operators were denied access to the place. After xxxxx left the Service, an internal investigation revealed that no official permits were issued to S.I., it was an underhanded deal with xxxxx.
One thing goes to S.I,'s credit, he didn't pretend to be one of the researchers.


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## horseychic (Apr 15, 2011)

My hubby and i went to australia zoo two years ago and were not that impressed, was expensive to get in and my god the food prices made you cringe. the only good thing about it was the show in the main arena. To us it seemed over commercialised and having statues/pictures of them everywhere was just annoying. God knows how an average family would be able to afford to do it. We got better value out of the theme parks.


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## hrafna (Apr 15, 2011)

i must admit, i didn't know all the facts either, would love to hear it all in pm if you wanna divulge. i never really watched his show but i did like the message he put out about not all animals being the scary monsters they are made out to be ie snakes and sharks. having said that there are plenty of others out there doing the same thing today (and without the profiteering) i developed an interest in snakes from stories my dad told me about eric worrell when he was a kid growing up in gosford!


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## PilbaraPythons (Apr 15, 2011)

You all should hear of Rob McClouds run in with Steve Irwin when Steve turned up at Aussie world and had a go and Rob who was running the reptile business on behalf of John Keaty at the time. Rob refused to be held up but said Steve could come in if he paid the entry fee. Apparantey smoke was nearly coming out of poor Steves ears. Hopefully Rob will post, it was really quite funny at the time.


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## waruikazi (Apr 15, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> How much is the "locked up land" worth (to the family)? I had to lough when missus Irwin mortally shot herself in the foot. After they acquired the Cape York property, which is an ex- cattle grazing land and came to them with x number head of cattle worth x number of $$$, she said in a press release "we are going to keep the cattle there because they're now part of the Cape York ecology".  I guess her advisors had a day off. That's conservation for you.



I don't know what it is worth and, while i personally think that the money that the land has earnt the family is none of our business, for certain types of ecosystems to be saved they need to be able to make money in their natural state. He may have bought up the land to make money off but he also stopped that land from being developed. I think that is commendable and if i was in the same position i would consider doing something similar.

I don't know the particular story you are referring too and if it is true it certeraintly is a foot in mouth moment for Terri. 

I personally didn't like him alot while he was alive. I don't think he had an awful lot of respect for the animals he made his living off, i think myself and anyone who shared that sentiment were proven right in the end. With that said i absolutely admired his passion and i think what he did and what his name has done for conservation and Australian tourism was worth his while.


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## giglamesh (Apr 15, 2011)

Sea Shepard....


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## snakeluvver (Apr 15, 2011)

I understand peoples points but steve has saved a lot of land from developers that were going to mine on or build on it. Thats conservation.
Sorry guys I know you may not like him but I think its a bit rude to talk badly about someone who passed away (except serial killers, pedophiles ect as they are evil people), as they have no way to defend themselves and their honor and justify their actions.


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## giglamesh (Apr 15, 2011)

could someone please link to where it says he was against keepers? or is that just here say also?


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## cement (Apr 15, 2011)

Considering what some politicians, business men, council officers, priests, etc do, I call Steve one of the good ones.

I never had a run in with him... but there is always at least one thing I don't like about everybody, after getting to know them, even my best mates. But that's life, no-one is perfect.

His shows were loved by a lot of kids, through a kids eye there was excitement and a look at wildlife. Who knows some of these kids may grow up with the wrong impression of the guy, but the right impression about wildlife and saving habitat.

Plus he died early, who knows what he might have achieved if still kicking.


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## snakeluvver (Apr 15, 2011)

I have met him once and he seemed nice enough :?


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## longqi (Apr 15, 2011)

Regardless of anything else his contribution to tourism in Australia was and is still huge
How many people watched his shows and altered their perceptions towards our native animals??
That was a huge contribution to conservation

Incidentally I was no fan of Steve Irwin but I can only say that his contributions to native wildlife through his shows and enthusiasm
had a huge impact both in Australia and overseas
I can offer exactly nothing by way of saying anything about non-profit making making matters
But he was in a business
Businesses are there to make money

Spotlight
You should continue to pick on jags
I just watched a breeder here kill 14 hatchlings because the colour combination was not good enough for him
Too often this is the case with unwanted hatchies being called slugs and got rid of


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## junglepython2 (Apr 15, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> There are hundreds of reptile demonstrators doing just that only most of them don't that kind of exposure. I am not sure if free-handling dangerous snakes on TV is the right sort of education.
> Let me rephrase my question - what has he done for conservation in Australia that didn't earn him money or gains in kind?


 
How does financial gains make his work any less significant? Like him or hate him he raised public awareness and gained public acceptance of the not so popular australian wildlife more then anyone else I can think of.


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## mrkos (Apr 15, 2011)

I only got to page 7 of this thread and had post this about 20 years ago maybe longer my friends brother in Brisbane was given a pet keelback snake from bob after visiting the zoo. Bobs reasoning was if a kid wants to learn more about australias wildlife then who am I to stand in the way and simply gave my mates brother the snake to keep. The keelback only lasted a year and was killed in an accident . Living on the sunny coast for 15 years now and know a few people that knew Steve rather well one of them is bindys surf teacher and from what I've heard Steve was a top fella I think the main reason Steve was against individuals keeping reptiles was because he knew these animals would lose their value and let's face it with hybrids, jags, and a flooded marketplace maybe he was within his rights to be against the private keeping of reptiles.


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## Ozzie Python (Apr 15, 2011)

mrkos said:


> I think the main reason Steve was against individuals keeping reptiles was because he knew these animals would lose their value and let's face it with hybrids, jags, and a flooded marketplace maybe he was within his rights to be against the private keeping of reptiles.


 
so reptiles are about the $ value? if you are trying to stick up for steve, this certainly has not helped his cause.

some reading material for those of you, like me, are sitting around having a quiet beer on a friday night. 
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/chondros-22745/

_*please note, i don't know the whole story behind some of the claims in the above thread. i just found it when is was told part of the story by someone a while ago and hunted around for info. there are other bits and pieces on the web if you look around enough._


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## snakeluvver (Apr 15, 2011)

longqi said:


> Spotlight
> You should continue to pick on jags
> I just watched a breeder here kill 14 hatchlings because the colour combination was not good enough for him
> Too often this is the case with unwanted hatchies being called slugs and got rid of


 Thats insane! You cant be serious? But how does that have anything to do with jags being bad? A breeder of Jungle carpet pythons, for instance, may get some hatchies that arent yellow enough and kill them...
(OOPS this is turning into a jag debate  )


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## cris (Apr 15, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> Sea Shepard....


 
The relevant south park episode does a good job of telling the story of these wannabe pirates attacking sustainable whaling.


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## giglamesh (Apr 15, 2011)

sure because they need all that tasty scientific research each season, when there obviously not learning anything new apart from new recipes.


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## cris (Apr 15, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> sure because they need all that tasty scientific research each season, when there obviously not learning anything new apart from new recipes.


 
They shouldnt have to pretend to do fake research if its sustainable, i despise it being done in the name of science but if people would look at the facts rather than just thinking whales are sacred(much like cattle to Hindus) it would be far easier to reach a practical and sustainable approach. The current amount being killed is more likely to be of benifit rather than damaging ecologically. They should be far more concerned about fish and other seafood than a sustainable whale harvest, while Australia stand strongly against any whaling regardless of sustainability we dont stand againt wiping out species such as blue fin tuna.


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## giglamesh (Apr 15, 2011)

Overfishing: Bluefin tuna crashing toward extinction | Indymedia Australia

no, no we want nothing to do with bluefin....


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## spotlight (Apr 15, 2011)

longqi said:


> Regardless of anything else his contribution to tourism in Australia was and is still huge
> How many people watched his shows and altered their perceptions towards our native animals??
> That was a huge contribution to conservation
> 
> ...


 hopefully there was only 14 in the whole clutch!!!!!!


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## kawasakirider (Apr 15, 2011)

spotlight said:


> hopefully there was only 14 in the whole clutch!!!!!!


 
How can you be an advocate for killing something just because someone has bred it for a specific trait that you don't like?


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## Darlyn (Apr 15, 2011)

cris said:


> They shouldnt have to pretend to do fake research if its sustainable, i despise it being done in the name of science but if people would look at the facts rather than just thinking whales are sacred(much like cattle to Hindus) it would be far easier to reach a practical and sustainable approach. The current amount being killed is more likely to be of benifit rather than damaging ecologically. They should be far more concerned about fish and other seafood than a sustainable whale harvest, while Australia stand strongly against any whaling regardless of sustainability we dont stand againt wiping out species such as blue fin tuna.


 

Can you explain what sustainable killing of whales is? Also expalin what benefit is achieved by killing whales?


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## cris (Apr 15, 2011)

Giglamesh there was some sort of international thingo to try to stop unsustainable bluefin fishing and Australia didnt support it. They will however attack Japanese for their culture involving whaling while promoting the inhumane slughter of endagered turtles and dugongs that are unsustainably killed under native title.



Darlyn said:


> Can you explain what sustainable killing of whales is? Also expalin what benefit is achieved by killing whales?


 
Killing species that arnt at threat in small numbers will cause no harm to their population, whales arnt an endangered species, they arnt even a species. Whales go around killing massive amounts of seafood, often competing with other whale species that are actually endangered etc.

Its almost as bad as some ignorant tree hugger saying we shouldnt eat roos, when they are the most environmentally friendly source of meat.


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## Ozzie Python (Apr 15, 2011)

-Matt- said:


> Thank you very much for that link Ozzie Python. By far the most interesting thread I have ever read on this site.


 
if you know the right phrases and names to search there are a number of good reads on forums. i now spend a lot of my time in the very early days of aps and arf, a lot of good info back then compared to now.

this thread for example is now going to turn into a whale killing/power generation/jag culling/gay aboriginal rights thread


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## longqi (Apr 15, 2011)

99% of animals can be sustainably culled
Just because whales are in the forefront of peoples attention should not exclude them
[I am neither a redneck nor a greenie]
He is perfectly correct about Southern Bluefin and now even the smaller species are being devastated 
Sustainable harvesting is the only way to protect most species
Rhodesia now has one of the largest wild elephant populations because they encouraged hunters and shot poachers
Our fishing quotas and estuarine bans are all about sustainable harvesting

Putting fully enforced quotas on animals does increase their numbers
You just have to look at the USA as a classic example
Virtually any bit of water outside the cities holds large numbers of fish
No matter where you drive in the country you will see lots of native animals
On highways every second sign is Watch Out For Bambi or similar as there are so many
Bluefish and snook were virtually extinct in one state so they banned all fishing for five years
Now they have they best [highly regulated] snook fishing anywhere
In the Southern states nearly every bit of water holds a few gators
[14ft recently removed from a central park in Miami]
You can walk up to the water and call them just like we call ducks

[I have no love for yanks but their system works much better than ours]

So sustainable collection/hunting/fishing is the greatest protection any animal can have
I do not support whaling at all but you asked the question???
The benefit of whaling for the Japanese is to use a food resource they have used for centuries
To keep it at a fairly low quota is much better than wholesale slaughter
Push the Japanese hard enough and they will just leave the treaty pact

The present quota must be low enough or we would not have seen the increase in whale numbers over the past few years


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## cris (Apr 15, 2011)

Ozzie Python said:


> this thread for example is now going to turn into a whale killing/power generation/jag culling/gay aboriginal rights thread


 
I fully support the right of gay aboringinal whales to get married, have abortions, uranium mines and form unions. I fully hate plankton though IMO some of them arnt even animals.

Longqi, you just sound like the typical run of the mill hippy redneck, thats what i am too (no offence meant by comparing me with you) :lol:


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## snakelover33 (Apr 16, 2011)

Hope the Australia zoo closes ever.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Apr 16, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> You all should hear of Rob McClouds run in with Steve Irwin when Steve turned up at Aussie world and had a go and Rob who was running the reptile business on behalf of John Keaty at the time. Rob refused to be held up but said Steve could come in if he paid the entry fee. Apparantey smoke was nearly coming out of poor Steves ears. Hopefully Rob will post, it was really quite funny at the time.



Bwahaha! I could just bloody picture it!


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## DanTheMan (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm sure we'll hear about it at the next meeting Aaron!
Sounds interesting.

I just did the same thing Ozzie Pythons, after being directed to that thread by Matt, what an excellent read! If only forums were still filled with such informative posts without being spammed to death!!


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## fugawi (Apr 16, 2011)

Firstly, baleen whales eat mostly krill but sometimes they will ball up sardines or whitebait etc, not really a threat to any fishing industry. Secondly, Japs have only been whaling for 40-50yrs, not centuries. Can't and don't claim traditional fishing rights. Their whalers are canning factories at sea but what irks me most is the obvious lying, they need to take 10000 Minke Whales this year "For scientific experiments".

But this is about Aust zoo, not whaling so........

One thing that hasn't been taken into account is the value of the Aus dollar compared to the US dollar. With Aust zoo being so heavily dependant on US tourists dollars, this is another contributer to their lack of takings.


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## ShaneBlack (Apr 16, 2011)

snakeluvver said:


> I think its a bit rude to talk badly about someone who passed away (except serial killers, pedophiles ect)



Informants are close enough to them.


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## Fuscus (Apr 16, 2011)

PilbaraPythons said:


> You all should hear of Rob McClouds run in with Steve Irwin when Steve turned up at Aussie world and had a go and Rob who was running the reptile business on behalf of John Keaty at the time. Rob refused to be held up but said Steve could come in if he paid the entry fee. Apparantey smoke was nearly coming out of poor Steves ears. Hopefully Rob will post, it was really quite funny at the time.


 And Rob is such a quiet and shy individual as well


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## spotlight (Apr 16, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> How can you be an advocate for killing something just because someone has bred it for a specific trait that you don't like?


its not the fact that the jags are not the colour or pattern the breeder wanted, to me its the fact that they are jags!!, i hate the americans for giving us their rejects i bet they are sitting back and laughing at us right now??.

to explain it better if you had a dog that had great colours but had epileptic fits every time you called its name, would you breed and sell its off spring nowing this would be handed down to all the pups ???


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## Minka (Apr 16, 2011)

This thread has degenerated into useless spam. If you want to moan, bitch and cry about Jag's and Whaling make a specific thread to do so. Or just hug it out.

Australia Zoo is not worth it's entry fee. And hasn't been for a long time.


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

anyone have a link to where it says he was against reptile keeper yet?
and waterrat your posts about your dislike for him doesnt have anything to do with Bob Buckley does it?


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## spotlight (Apr 16, 2011)

Minka said:


> This thread has degenerated into useless spam. If you want to moan, bitch and cry about Jag's and Whaling make a specific thread to do so. Or just hug it out.
> 
> Australia Zoo is not worth it's entry fee. And hasn't been for a long time.


 but i love whales!!!


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## -Katana- (Apr 16, 2011)

Haven't they been in the news just recently with the birth of a baby Rhino at the zoo..or was that another place?


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## Waterrat (Apr 16, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> anyone have a link to where it says he was against reptile keeper yet?
> and waterrat your posts about your dislike for him doesnt have anything to do with Bob Buckley does it?


 
No, not at all. I met SI long before he got rich and famous and I disliked him then. Sorry if it's not to your liking.
Even if it did have something to do with Bob Buckley, I would feel my dislike very justified. 
You wouldn't by any chance dislike Bob? Eh?


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

never met bob.... lol no clue who he is.... just happened to stumble upon a thread i believe you created on another forum, whilst searching for the mythical proof of SI disliking keepers.

edit it just seemed in the thread i read assuming it is you, you were just badmouthing him as a person


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## eipper (Apr 16, 2011)

since there are are few that have the misguided belief that the Steve Irwin was pro private reptile keeping, can you produce proof to that effect... sorry that I have told you the truth and your late hero


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

eipper said:


> since there are are few that have the misguided belief that the Steve Irwin was pro private reptile keeping, can you produce proof to that effect... sorry that I have told you the truth and your late hero


no one is saying he was pro,im asking where the proof is he was against it. if there is no documented evidence of him being for or against, one could assume he was on the fence. im sure he kept snakes and lizards as a child (referring to them as MY SNAKE)


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## waruikazi (Apr 16, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> no one is saying he was pro,im asking where the proof is he was against it. if there is no documented evidence of him being for or against, one could assume he was on the fence. im sure he kept snakes and lizards as a child (referring to them as MY SNAKE)



Why does it matter so much whether he liked private keeping or not?


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

because that seems to be one of the reasons people disliked him


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## mrkos (Apr 16, 2011)

From what I've heard he had one of the finest collection of jungles around kept under lock and key away from public viewing


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## Waterrat (Apr 16, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> edit it just seemed in the thread i read assuming it is you, you were just badmouthing him as a person



If I badmouthed anyone, I had a reason. I met him in person and I am entitled to my opinion about him. The sad story about Bob and SI just supported my opinion. If you don't (didn't) know either of them, why are you bringing it up?


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 16, 2011)

Telling the truth is NOT bad mouthing..it is a shame there's a few childhood dreams shattered by the truth. (Santa ain't real neither is the E.Bunny)

When you reach maturity truthfullness is preferred anyway


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## Specks (Apr 16, 2011)

bredlislave you have just recked my childhood
i loved santa and the easter bunny!
WHY!!!


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## Wild~Touch (Apr 16, 2011)

bredlislave you have just recked my childhood
i loved santa and the easter bunny!
WHY!!! 

Gotta lovya Specks  You can still keep lovin' Santa & E.Bunny, in fact love is good....LOL


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## Specks (Apr 16, 2011)

haha
i joke i joke
but to be honest i dont "love" santa, he is a big, fat, hairy, old guy in a red suit, pretty disgusting if you think about it.
but you cant really love a 6ft tall bunny that gives candy to little children LOL


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## CrystalMoon (Apr 16, 2011)

*Hmmmm*

It is so easy to critique people/places, yet difficult to put opinions accross without seeming to. I have not been to Australia Zoo, but have wanted to. I was very interested
in the opinions put forward here. It would seem most do not think it is value for money to
go for a look. Mind you, I like a lot of things most do not  so curiousity will get the better of me sooner or later. I choose not to comment on Terry and family as the only information I have had has been media generated. I will say I am glad Australia Zoo has NOT been sold off to any international companies at least


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## spotlight (Apr 16, 2011)

Bredlislave said:


> Telling the truth is NOT bad mouthing..it is a shame there's a few childhood dreams shattered by the truth. (Santa ain't real neither is the E.Bunny)
> 
> When you reach maturity truthfullness is preferred anyway


next you will tell us god is not real also ??


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

great now the thread will be closed due to religion chat


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## spotlight (Apr 16, 2011)

dont spoil that one mate! i know god is real walt disney wrote a book about him!!!!


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## giglamesh (Apr 16, 2011)

no, now that the argument is going to start between religious people and non religious. i have door knockers to tell me whats right and wrong every Sunday and Wednesday :S


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## Waterrat (Apr 16, 2011)

One thing is for sure, no god or his troops will safe Australia Zoo if they don't get their act together. Slightly related to the original topic?


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## -Katana- (Apr 16, 2011)

I was right....

Australia Zoo welcomes baby white rhino | Courier Mail

Now it beggars belief that such a critically endangered species could find their way into hands such as theirs!!
Kinda makes you wonder how much "gifty" was slipped to the right people to make _that_ happen!


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 16, 2011)

> Now it beggars belief that such a critically endangered species could find their way into hands such as theirs!!
> Kinda makes you wonder how much "gifty" was slipped to the right people to make that happen!



I don't think anyone is disputing the technical expertise of the employees, or their ability to do great things with animals in their care. Most critics of the zoo and the Irwins (not Bob) are simply saying there is more to them than meets the eye, and there was more to Steve than met the eye. If you want to be starry eyed and believe the media hype that surrounds the family and the spin surrounding the zoo and its place as a conservation hotspot, you are free to do so.

Like a lot of high-profile animal people, they become very possessive of their place in the system and often become very bullish towards those with less power, namely you and me... There are at least several experienced and well-meaning keepers who've had their fingers burnt in dealings with such individuals.

J


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## -Katana- (Apr 16, 2011)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I don't think anyone is disputing the technical expertise of the employees, or their ability to do great things with animals in their care. Most critics of the zoo and the Irwins (not Bob) are simply saying there is more to them than meets the eye, and there was more to Steve than met the eye. If you want to be starry eyed and believe the media hype that surrounds the family and the spin surrounding the zoo and its place as a conservation hotspot, you are free to do so.
> 
> Like a lot of high-profile animal people, they become very possessive of their place in the system and often become very bullish towards those with less power, namely you and me... There are at least several experienced and well-meaning keepers who've had their fingers burnt in dealings with such individuals.
> 
> J


 

Fair enough.

Still I watched only one of his mockumtaries and I thought he was the biggest tool since Troy Dan.


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## Pythoninfinite (Apr 16, 2011)

> Still I watched only one of his mockumtaries and I thought he was the biggest tool since Troy Dan.



Hahaha! I like the turn of phrase!

J


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## Snake_Whisperer (Apr 17, 2011)

giglamesh said:


> no one is saying he was pro,im asking where the proof is he was against it. if there is no documented evidence of him being for or against, one could assume he was on the fence. im sure he kept snakes and lizards as a child (referring to them as MY SNAKE)



To find this info, you will have to get off the computer and get out and meet some of the old schoolers. I've spoken to quite a few old blokes who all tell the same tale. Not every piece of info you're looking for can be found on the internet mate. 

P.S. The problem with assumptions is...



Akwendi said:


> I was right....
> 
> Australia Zoo welcomes baby white rhino | Courier Mail
> 
> ...



Just in time given the adult rhino that just recently died while in their care.



Pythoninfinite said:


> I don't think anyone is disputing the technical expertise of the employees, or their ability to do great things with animals in their care. Most critics of the zoo and the Irwins (not Bob) are simply saying there is more to them than meets the eye, and there was more to Steve than met the eye. If you want to be starry eyed and believe the media hype that surrounds the family and the spin surrounding the zoo and its place as a conservation hotspot, you are free to do so.
> 
> Like a lot of high-profile animal people, they become very possessive of their place in the system and often become very bullish towards those with less power, namely you and me... There are at least several experienced and well-meaning keepers who've had their fingers burnt in dealings with such individuals.
> 
> J


 
Quite right Jamie. If this forum is any indication, many, many people consider themselves to be "special" in regards to the fact that they are reptile keepers. Why does it beggar disbelief that SI would not be as susceptible to the same flaw of the ego?


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## longirostris (Apr 17, 2011)

-Matt- said:


> Thank you very much for that link Ozzie Python. By far the most interesting thread I have ever read on this site.



Totally agree, 

Read the whole post from start to finish, very interesting.



Minka said:


> This thread has degenerated into useless spam. If you want to moan, bitch and cry about Jag's and Whaling make a specific thread to do so. Or just hug it out.
> 
> Australia Zoo is not worth it's entry fee. And hasn't been for a long time.



Agree with this too. Get the topic back on track or let it die


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## atothej09 (Apr 17, 2011)

As long as we all take patriotic action and at least visit the zoo once, you've done your bit. I wish the Australia Zoo all the best and hope it never closes. The government should be financially supporting the zoos around Australia regularly and stop sending money overseas, the jobs are going overseas...our money shouldn't.
I visited the Melbourne Zoo recently and was really disappointed with it in general. 
The animals that were meant to be on display, weren't. The whole zoo needs a facelift, it still had a 1970's look and feel about it. 
The food court is a joke, and no where near enough seating.
The reptile area is still the best part of the zoo, but could do with some more interaction. Get a python out so kids can touch one!
The viewing areas in some spots are so small, you will constantly line up to get a spot to have a look at something.
The one good thing I love about the place is the Twilight concerts etc they put on during daylight savings.


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## beeman (Apr 17, 2011)

If it falls over then so be it, Its private enterprize ****e happens when you dont have the right team at the top!


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## Grogshla (Apr 17, 2011)

is there anything we can do to help?


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## Waterrat (Apr 17, 2011)

beeman said:


> If it falls over then so be it, Its private enterprize ****e happens when you dont have the right team at the top!



Right! There is also another aspect to it: They used to rake in millions, new they're raking in less millions but still millions ...... they don't like that but they are far from getting broke.


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## giglamesh (Apr 17, 2011)

ive actually noticed that there adds are back on tv so they must be doing better, i never realised they stopped until they started up again


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## beeman (Apr 17, 2011)

Waterrat said:


> Right! There is also another aspect to it: They used to rake in millions, new they're raking in less millions but still millions ...... they don't like that but they are far from getting broke.


 
Sorry if i offended Michael, But as a business owner for over 25 years i see things like financial management in black and white!
If its paying, well and good but if its not it is bad practice to be propped up!


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## Waterrat (Apr 17, 2011)

beeman said:


> Sorry if i offended Michael, But as a business owner for over 25 years i see things like financial management in black and white!
> If its paying, well and good but if its not it is bad practice to be propped up!



I actually agreed with you. This was just a side comment - you often see business people complaining when things don't go as they used to but it doesn't mean they on the verge of closing down.


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## cement (Apr 17, 2011)

I was at a meeting today and heard some very good things about Australia Zoo. Namely the fact that this meeting was about caring for sick and injured wildlife, where a person who was having difficulty with a macropod rang Australia Zoo and was put through to the wild animal hospital, and spoke directly with a vet who gave very detailed instructions on care , meds etc and also offered to call and speak to our local vet so they could fill them in on the details on what was needed etc. Which they did. All advice was given freely and fully with no stone left unturned and real care and interest was displayed.

Before trying Aus Zoo, they had tried Taronga where they got the usual, we'll call you back............


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## lizardman59 (Apr 20, 2011)

it would suck if aus zoo shut down


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## jacks-pythons (Apr 21, 2011)

australia zoo will never shut down. i went at the end of last year and loved it.


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## MrHappy (Apr 22, 2011)

I took my family to Australia Zoo a few years ago. When we walked in (toward the end of the day) a HUGE storm hit and we all took shelter until it was closing time. Because we didin't see anything they gave us free passes for the following day.
While we were there the staff were great. We had a baby in a pram and the staff couldn't do enough for us because of it. One bloke emptied his ice from his ice-cream cart into our esky because we were low on ice. Others took us on shortcuts and sat us in special seating to watch the shows. Everyone was fantastic.
We thoroughly enjoyed our time there.


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## Tiliqua (Apr 23, 2011)

> Just in time given the adult rhino that just recently died while in their care.


 Actually, 2 of their 3 'Bachelor herd' of white Rhino died within a year or two of acquisition. Also, a rather valuable Andean Condor from Traonga died in their care. Taronga has since replaced it with their latest condor chick, to be used in their Crocoseum bird show. The Female Rhino arrived pregnant from Wellington Zoo NZ, so no credit should go towards Australia Zoo regarding the rhino birth.


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