# Bhp Combat



## ad (Jun 20, 2008)

Hi All,
Combatting the male bhps today at my mates place, my male smashed his male by the throat!
His male broke free but then he just slammed him again and we had to physically split them.
Amazing to see such huge snakes going the biff,
It was a new camera and had a dud setting so not a good quality pic, such a pity, anyway
Cheers
Adam.


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## bump73 (Jun 20, 2008)

WOW thats even better than going to see the local dog fights on saturday nights


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## Nagraj (Jun 20, 2008)

ad said:


> Combatting the male bhps ....




Why?


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## FNQ_Snake (Jun 20, 2008)

Huh? Are you trying to get a rise?


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## 888lowndes888 (Jun 20, 2008)

You have got to be kidding. Why do that to your own snake, or any snake for that matter. I hope the member that said reported really did report you. Your a joke mate.


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## addy (Jun 20, 2008)

Ricko said:


> Gee the armchair experts are out tonight aren't they ad.



Computer chair experts! 
I don't really think this guy is serious though, something tells me it's a joke. Just to stir people up. why would someone fight a $1500 snake...or any snake for that matter. Actually rephrase that to any animal. Unless there're a 12 year old and have a pet scorpion they like to pitch up against spiders or something...


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## Packages (Jun 20, 2008)

Well i can think of one obvious answer... to improve the chances of successful breeding! How many BHP's have you guys bred? I bet ad has bred 5 times more than all of you put together!


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## 888lowndes888 (Jun 20, 2008)

LOL don't I feel like an idiot I got so fired up I didnt even think about the fact they are male and female mating lol.


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## amazonian (Jun 20, 2008)

You should feel like an idiot because you musn't of read the "my male smashed his male" comment either lol

Combatting is often used with BHP's to stimulate mating with males who would otherwise have no interest. When they have breeding competition it enhances their desire to mate with the female. The process is managable under strict supervision but can be brutal. I knew this thread was goign to be a great one lol.

Can anyone pick the difference between the breeders & the non breeders?


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## FNQ_Snake (Jun 20, 2008)

888lowndes888 said:


> LOL don't I feel like an idiot I got so fired up I didnt even think about the fact they are male and female mating lol.




Ah, the original post says his male against his mates male.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Jun 20, 2008)

I can't believe some of those comments. Yep...... Let's pick the BHP breeders. :?
Hope all is going well for this breeding season Ad.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Jun 20, 2008)

they are male to male, its natural thing and they dont fight like dogs, ripping each other apart. they just push and tangle each other.


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## amazonian (Jun 20, 2008)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> they are male to male, its natural thing and they dont fight like dogs, ripping each other apart. they just push and tangle each other.


 
You think they don't bite also?
Simon stone has a pic of a male MD biting another male MD in Reptiles Australia mag. And if you seach morelia viridis forum (in the last week) you will find someone accidently introduced a male to a wrongly sexed female which copped a complete flogging and has very deep wounds. It can be very brutal. Here is a link to the GTP's http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/reply/63834/t/URGENT-QUESTION-resolved.html#reply-63834


If conditioned properly combatting shouldn't even be needed.
I know Neil Sonnermann doesn't combat and has had success putting 1 male over 4 females.


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## amazonian (Jun 20, 2008)

I am sure Ad knows what he is doing.
But for others that don't know about combatting, if you decide to do so in the future just remember that in the wild the loser can back down and slither away with little more than a battered ego, not so easy within an enclosure. So remove the submissive male ASAP otherwise the dominant male will do damage. And make sure you keep watch the entire time they are together. Don't take your eyes off them & deffinately don't leave the room. A safer option is to use another males shed skin or hide to stimulate a breeding response from the male.

*ETA:* I don't combat, but I am not against those that do.
It is a personal choice and if you think you can perform it safely and enhance your chances of a successful mating, than good luck to you. But it can be a barbaric & brutal act, so be weary of this.


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## Renagade (Jun 20, 2008)

hey ad, did you try and scent her enclosure with one male so the the would be more aggressive sexually?or do you do it to work out which one you want to breed from also? ie stronger male?


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## ad (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey, quite some comments.

Amazonian is correct, these are powerful animals that are fighting for their primal urges, there is no way you would attempt this without assistance or experience. They definitely bite (but not usually) and they slam each other to the ground. -they dont muck around.

It is a natural response and a breeding aid, that is more useful for bhp than any other python,
My male has bred solo, but my mate didnt have a breed for a few years until combatting so we have done it ever since and his female has bred ever since. The females get excited when the combatting happens and tail wiggle and emit fluid - there is definitely something in it for both sexes.
Trueblue doesnt combat his males either and had great success over the years, if Neil S doesnt then it is further proof that they breed well without combatting.
We have succesfully bred e.bhps for years and last season bred wa bhps as well, it works for us and we would never harm our animals unnecessarily.
Cheers
Adam


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## euphorion (Jun 20, 2008)

I have to admit my first reaction was horror! But i also have to admit i've never bred snakes let alone bhp's before too! Therefore, i'm just interested in how it all works. At least the people that over-reacted did so with the best of intentions  thanks for sharing, i'm sure lots of noobs learnt something here.


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## bump73 (Jun 20, 2008)

HAHAHA come on Ad tell me you didn't post that in order to get a rise out of the many members of this site who don't breed snakes. Or did you simply forget to mention that it was in order to stimulate mating in your initial post??

Either way good luck mate and you got me hook line and sinker:lol::lol:

Ben


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## FNQ_Snake (Jun 20, 2008)

bump73 said:


> HAHAHA come on Ad tell me you didn't post that in order to get a rise out of the many members of this site who don't breed snakes. Or did you simply forget to mention that it was in order to stimulate mating in your initial post??
> 
> Either way good luck mate and you got me hook line and sinker:lol::lol:
> 
> Ben



Here here


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## Noongato (Jun 20, 2008)

Even if they do bite each other a few times, i dont think it bothers them much. My BHP bites his own butt sometimes in his feeding frenzy. 
Doesnt even flinch....


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## ad (Jun 20, 2008)

lol 888,bump and fnq.
It is good to see your intentions were in the animals interest, 
thank god ricko stepped in before you all had me crucified! lol
Cheers
Adam


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## kabuto (Jun 20, 2008)

I think the way Ad described it made it sound like a dog fight with him and his mate getting their rocks off watching. And that's why a lot of people got up in arms. This is one method of getting bhp male fired up. I give each male a turn with the female however i do not let the other male into the enclosure straight away i give it a couple of days rest. This works for me. I think if i found my males and females less compatible the combating method would be an option.


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## mungus (Jun 20, 2008)

Lesson learn't here.
Dont post unless you have an idea of what is happening.
You could be left red faced............lol


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## snakecharma (Jun 20, 2008)

great pics Ad 

have always wanted to see pics in regards to combatting i havn't used it yet and hopefully wont need to in the future but definatly interested in the practise since i heard about it a few years ago 

do you have more details on how you do this???


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## jessb (Jun 20, 2008)

So if the combat is to determine the "top male" who gets to mate with the female (similar to most male animals' battles for dominance) , does the combat still benefit the "loser" in terms of making them more keen to mate?


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## Tsubakai (Jun 20, 2008)

jessb said:


> So if the combat is to determine the "top male" who gets to mate with the female (similar to most male animals' battles for dominance) , does the combat still benefit the "loser" in terms of making them more keen to mate?



In captive breeding it can help both. I'm sure that in the wild, the loser has to retreat which means it would have to find a new female and start over with any males in the new area.


In humans, quite often the loser male gets more attention from the ladies than the winner does from what I've seen down the pub on a Friday night :lol: Strange world, isn't it?


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## Ricko (Jun 20, 2008)

Great post ad and very informative for the people who never knew what goes on when combating, do you do it with anything else or just bhp's? (pm me if you dont want to be crucified lol)


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## dragon lady (Jun 20, 2008)

interesting...thanks ad!


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## itbites (Jun 20, 2008)

*Great pics ad  thanks for sharing!*


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## itbites (Jun 21, 2008)

*Yer maybe you should!  read the whole thread thoroughly b4 commenting...I for one found this thread very informative/interesting*


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2008)

Yeh  Refer to mungus's post :lol:

Nice pics ad


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2008)

Oh god people are actually serious :shock:

I know next to nothing about breeding BHP's but I even know that combating is used to initiate a better breeding response. Im sure they were kept a close eye on and monitored, not as if they were thrown together and then left to themselves..

Learn a bit before you go badmouthing people.


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jun 21, 2008)

Ahh, APS is always good for a chuckle! Thanks for the pics Ad. I'm sure you've probably lost interest but have you got anymore pics? Funny how the average person has no grasp whatsoever of how nature works.


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## Nagraj (Jun 21, 2008)

ad said:


> .... we would never harm our animals unnecessarily.




By your own admission you are harming your animals unnecessarily. You've stated that they will breed without combat.

Have you considered other methods of inciting the males without actually allowing them contact?


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## whatsup (Jun 21, 2008)

some people are just plain stupid. you've been told why it is done and that it is done under supervision. some snakes are different and and different things stimulate them. what works for one might not work for another.
if some of you people are not willing to learn then you should'nt be here. maybe ask questions instead of going off at the mouth when you have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Ricko (Jun 21, 2008)

Nagraj said:


> By your own admission you are harming your animals unnecessarily. You've stated that they will breed without combat.
> 
> Have you considered other methods of inciting the males without actually allowing them contact?



If you read ad's posts he said his mate's males needed to combat to stimulate breeding, so i gather ad lent him this male to do just that, combat them to stimulate mating.


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## Allan (Jun 21, 2008)

It is very rare that the combat turns into biting if only kept together for a few minutes, they usually wrestle eachother without any harm. The two bites were nothing compared to what a Bhp is capable of, these were more of a territorial mark and were easily interupted as soon as we interfered . Anyone who's had a real bite from a Bhp knows what I'm talking about.
The males were together for less than 10 seconds, with Ad and I standing by the enclosure. I agree that leaving them unsupervised as in the two cases someone mentioned is irresponsible though.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 21, 2008)

This is one of the reasons that i dont bother, or ever need to for that matter, combat males as it can turn nasty.
Ive bred bhps heaps of times with various different bhps and never needed to use this method to stimulate males to mate.
IMO there are a few other much safer and just as, if not more, reliable ways to stimulate males that show no interest in to mating machines.
But as has been said, what works for some people may not work for others.


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## Allan (Jun 21, 2008)

It did work for the WA Bhps, something a lot of breeders didn't manage last season.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 21, 2008)

I should have some WA bhps this season, they are mating like crazy without any combat.
Last season because of lack of food i didnt even bother trying to breed them, put them together once for a brief period, but new it was a waste of time, so didnt bother any more and concerntraited on other things that i new had good enough condition to breed.


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## thepythonpit (Jun 21, 2008)

funcouple said:


> having bred bhp, ive never placed 2 males together 2 fight over a female before. theres no excuse for doing what you did, your nothing but an idiot. you and you mate should both have your snakes removed from you.


 
great second post mate , laugh a minute ..
i know several BHP breeders that use combat around mating time , it is what thay would do in the wild so why not i captivaty....


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## Slateman (Jun 21, 2008)

I moved this here to avoid silly comments.


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## Simple (Jun 21, 2008)

Although combat is a never fail way to tell you are trying to mate two males.


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## Simple (Jun 22, 2008)

PS - for all the people who commented about this thread before doing any research and actually backing your statement with facts, please refer to our assumption quote at the bottom of our post


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## ad (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi All,
Just a quick update with a pic of my gravid Eastern bhp, I circled the area for those not sure. 
How necessary are males combatting? Its much better to ponder that question when you have a gravid python  The westerns are looking good for this season but too early to tell, mighty chunky though!
Cheers
Adam


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## dee4 (Jul 3, 2008)

Well done Ad & Alan. 
Interesting comments from the others, well done in educating us so much on your experiences with combat between BHP's.


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## spilota_variegata (Oct 26, 2008)

Sorry if someone has already suggested this, but has anyone tried introducing another male in an escape proof enclosure? Is it necessary to actually allow combat or would close proximity suffice? Has anyone tried this before? I would be very interested as I'm going to try to breed my BHPs next season.


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## Pythons Rule (Dec 1, 2008)

haha there's this guy on facebook that bas pic's of his too in battle but he won't believe us that there both males he thinks there mating lol.

I need to do this with my Cape york males in order to stimulate my female and it works concidering I went 4 years without any resolt before I tried the combat method.

great pic by the way, I enjoyed sitting back and watching everyone get fired up for something they had no idea about lol.

great show guys


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## gozz (Apr 3, 2009)

very interesting thanks for sharing


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