# WHat does hypo and Het mean?



## Ninabuddha (Jan 4, 2014)

I dont understand on the Reptiles Down Under website when advertisements have 60% hypo or 100% het. Also how do these calculations work?


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## andynic07 (Jan 4, 2014)

It is the percentage of chance that the animal carry the gene. Hypo is short for hypomelanistic which means that the animal has reduced black pigmentation (melanin) and het is short for heterogeneous which means that the animal carries one of two genes needed to produce a desired trait and looks like a wild type, for example albinoism in darwin carpets is recessive which means both parents must carry the gene for the offspring to be albino looking. This can be achieved by mating one albino with another albino or one albino with one het or a het with a het. This is illustrated in the first link here.

Designer Serpents Australia

This is a better explanation of some of the genetic terms.
Genetics Glossary | Designer Serpents Australia

Now the 66% or 100% is talking about the possibility that the animal is a het. You can't tell by looking at a het whether it carries the gene that you are after or not so the chance is displayed as a percentage. If you look at the first link again and look the het x het picture you will see that 3/4 snakes look like the wild type so there is 2/3 chance that it is het and this is converted to 66% that it will be het for the trait.


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## Ramsayi (Jan 4, 2014)

Glossary of Common Terms - Aussie Pythons & Snakes


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## champagne (Jan 4, 2014)

It means in 3 years time after you have spend time and money to raise the animals up, you finally realise you have been ripped off and the seller is long gone.... Unless you know the person or are buying from a very well known breeder, my advise would be to stay well clear of 66% snd 100% hets.


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## marcus0002 (Jan 4, 2014)

66% are nothing more than a scam. Paying more for one is the same as gambling

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## jinjajoe (Jan 4, 2014)

marcus0002 said:


> 66% are nothing more than a scam. Paying more for one is the same as gambling
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk



depends who from..... I have bought poss hets a few times and proved them out......


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## marcus0002 (Jan 4, 2014)

That is true

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## Ninabuddha (Jan 4, 2014)

thank you I didnt understand how they can cost so much more than a normal snake of that breed.


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## Senator358 (Jan 4, 2014)

Hets usually don't cost any more than a wild type. A lot of breeders will even give away hets when you buy an albino.


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## Ninabuddha (Jan 4, 2014)

what do you mean by a wild type? do you mean like wild caught? or closest to the wild reptiles patterning?


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## Senator358 (Jan 4, 2014)

Perhaps have another look at the links provided already. 

Designer Serpents Australia

Genetics Glossary | Designer Serpents Australia



> *Wild type**:* The way the animal usually looks in nature (i.e. the normal colour and pattern).


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## No-two (Jan 4, 2014)

Hets are certainly more pricey than wild type animals. Het albino olives range from $500-$1500 a hatchling. Where as normals are around $300-350.


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

If you had an albino blue tongue and a full black blue tongue and they bred is it possible that the hatchlings be wild type and if they were would that make them 100% het sorry to high jack the thread


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## No-two (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> If you had an albino blue tongue and a full black blue tongue and they bred is it possible that the hatchlings be wild type and if they were would that make them 100% het sorry to high jack the thread



They would be double het. For both albino and melanistic. I believe [MENTION=14981]jinjajoe[/MENTION] has already done so and was offering some for sale recently.


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

No-two said:


> They would be double het. For both albino and melanistic. I believe [MENTION=14981]jinjajoe[/MENTION] has already done so and was offering some for sale recently.


Cool thanks. . .And then you breed with another het to get the type you want e.g breed with an albino het to get albinos and a black het to get black hatchling? Is that right?


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## andynic07 (Jan 4, 2014)

No-two said:


> They would be double het. For both albino and melanistic. I believe @jinjajoe has already done so and was offering some for sale recently.


He certainly is and it sounds like a really interesting project. I am not sure which thread he talks about it but he certainly knows his stuff.


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## No-two (Jan 4, 2014)

eddie19 said:


> Cool thanks. . .And then you breed with another het to get the type you want e.g breed with an albino het to get albinos and a black het to get black hatchling? Is that right?



If you bred them back together you would get both albinos and blacks that are possible het for the other type. You may even get a double homo (melanistic albino) which expresses both genes. I'm sure [MENTION=14981]jinjajoe[/MENTION] will have more to add about that but I believe he talked about expecting a high orange albino in another thread. Normally what is black on the wild type is white on the albino form however not with blue tongues.


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## eddie19 (Jan 4, 2014)

No-two said:


> If you bred them back together you would get both albinos and blacks that are possible het for the other type. You may even get a double homo (melanistic albino) which expresses both genes. I'm sure [MENTION=14981]jinjajoe[/MENTION] will have more to add about that but I believe he talked about expecting a high orange albino in another thread. Normally what is black on the wild type is white on the albino form however not with blue tongues.



Ok thanks yeah I tracked down his post from a few years ago and read it learnt alot I just seem some on facebook for sale on a reptile page and just didn't understand how you could breed a albnio and a pure black and get hatchling that are not albino or black but wild type looking but now I understand kinda new to morphs (or hets or whatever the right name is lol) as I keep water dragons and as far as I know there's no het's or morphs for them here. .or maybe there is but I just don't know about them but mine are just wild type and that's all I have ever kept is wild types thanks again tho


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## champagne (Jan 4, 2014)

No-two said:


> If you bred them back together you would get both albinos and blacks that are possible het for the other type. You may even get a double homo (melanistic albino) which expresses both genes. I'm sure @jinjajoe will have more to add about that but I believe he talked about expecting a high orange albino in another thread. Normally what is black on the wild type is white on the albino form however not with blue tongues.



don't want to start a argument but from what I have seen black turns to orange in albino carpets


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## No-two (Jan 4, 2014)

champagne said:


> don't want to start a argument but from what I have seen black turns to orange in albino carpets



Albinism is a lack of melanin therefore you're left with white unless there are other pigments involved. What is black is white on the albino unless the melanin was masking another colour (which appears to be what the black blue tongues are).


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## champagne (Jan 4, 2014)

No-two said:


> Albinism is a lack of melanin therefore you're left with white unless there are other pigments involved. What is black is white on the albino unless the melanin was masking another colour (which appears to be what the black blue tongues are).



yeah I am a little confused.... can you explain why a albino murray daling carpet is bright orange where it normally is black and yellow where the silver usually is? and if the black was ''masking'' the background colour then wouldn't it be solid yellow? In blue tongues if the black is just masking other colours and you are saying it will not be produced because albinos cant produce melanin. wouldn't the double homozygous form of the just look like a normal albino and not solid orange?


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## junglepython2 (Jan 5, 2014)

It depends if the hypermelanistic trait also affects the other pigments. If it doesn't then the double homos will look like a normal albino. If it also increases the other pigments but it usually overridden by the melanin then the double homo's may well be flame orange or canary yellow.


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## Senator358 (Jan 5, 2014)

No-two said:


> Hets are certainly more pricey than wild type animals. Het albino olives range from $500-$1500 a hatchling. Where as normals are around $300-350.



Yes, you're right. I was thinking more of Darwins but yes there are a lot of hets that are more expensive. Olives and death adders would be a couple of examples that come to mind in snakes.


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## TrueBlue (Jan 5, 2014)

There are no pure albino murry darlings, they are darwin crosses, hence all the other colours.


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## Djbowker (Jan 5, 2014)

champagne said:


> It means in 3 years time after you have spend time and money to raise the animals up, you finally realise you have been ripped off and the seller is long gone.... Unless you know the person or are buying from a very well known breeder, my advise would be to stay well clear of 66% snd 100% hets.



Hence the reason I'll only buy hets from Snake Ranch.


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## jinjajoe (Jan 5, 2014)

The picture shows the result of Hyper Melanistic x Albino stage one.....

When the babies are bred together the following 9 possibilities will result;

Normal
Heterozygous Albino
Heterozygous hyper Melanistic 
Double Heterozygous for Albinism & Hyper Melanism
Homozygous Albino
Homozygous Hyper Melanistic
Albino Heterozygous for Hyper Melanism
Hyper Melanistic Heterozygous for Albinism
Double Homozygous Hyper Melanistic Albino

Cheers...


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## champagne (Jan 5, 2014)

TrueBlue said:


> There are no pure albino murry darlings, they are darwin crosses, hence all the other colours.



What does that have to do with the fact black turns orange and not white as stated?


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## Ninabuddha (Jan 5, 2014)

I am slowly understanding the meaning now, hypo is reduced black but is this a necessity to state for selling your reptiles?

what would happen if i crossed a caramel coastal with a dark coastal female?


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## andynic07 (Jan 6, 2014)

Ninabuddha said:


> I am slowly understanding the meaning now, hypo is reduced black but is this a necessity to state for selling your reptiles?
> 
> what would happen if i crossed a caramel coastal with a dark coastal female?


I think that you may need to have a little better understanding of inheritance modes of traits and genetics in general before you start to breed anything other than standard coloured animals.


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## SpilotaFreak78 (Jan 6, 2014)

No-two said:


> They would be double het. For both albino and melanistic. I believe @jinjajoe has already done so and was offering some for sale recently.


wouldn't they be possible hets as both those genes are recessive in blue tongues?


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## champagne (Jan 6, 2014)

Serpentaria said:


> They would be possible hets as both those genes are recessive in blue tongues



A visual albino and visual hyper when breed together all the offspring will be 100% het for albino and 100% het for hyper making them 100% double hets. How did you come up with possible hets?


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## No-two (Jan 6, 2014)

I don't think you can say for sure that the black is not masking another colour in the muddy darling x's. As Darwin's are originally made up of oranges, creams and browns the colour may well be coming from that in the hets. It's fairly basic to understand that without black you get white. A good example is the albino black snake. It's very much white which is a case of pure black in albino form. This is the same for albino Darwin's and I don't believe that a pure Murray darling albino would be any different without the influence of Darwin. What are people trying to achieve with albino jungles? I certainly don't think the offspring will be orange and yellow as there are already plenty of high yellow Darwin's available.


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## RedFox (Jan 6, 2014)

Ninabuddha said:


> I am slowly understanding the meaning now, hypo is reduced black but is this a necessity to state for selling your reptiles?
> 
> what would happen if i crossed a caramel coastal with a dark coastal female?



SXR line caramels are a co-dom trait so if you go back to the previous links it should say 50% show the caramel trait, 50% 'wild type'. 

If you are referring to a coastal that shows caramel colours, a wild type, and a dark coastal, also wildtype. You will get all wild type animals with varying colours.


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## Senator358 (Jan 6, 2014)

Then if you have a super caramel it will throw 100% caramels. lol


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## RedFox (Jan 7, 2014)

Yep. With co Dom genes it may help to see the co dom form as a visual het and the super as the homozygous animal and fill out a punnet square as you would for a recessive gene.


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## andynic07 (Jan 7, 2014)

Maybe [MENTION=1331]TrueBlue[/MENTION] can elaborate on the caramels.


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## Senator358 (Jan 7, 2014)

Do some breeders not say that the caramel is an incomplete dominant mutation?


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## RedFox (Jan 7, 2014)

I assume andy is talking about the possible mixed heritage of the sxr caramels. As recently posted in the sunglow thread.


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## jinjajoe (Jan 7, 2014)

I have posted this before but for the purpose of is thread...

Here is the biggest clue to what the double Homozygous will look like... IMO.... Strip out the black leaving orange.... 

Normal Eastern blueys can have an orange hue on their bellies but nothing of this magnitude....


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## TrueBlue (Jan 8, 2014)

andynic07,
I dont have anything to do with caramels, never kept or bred any. 
I only keep pure snakes like these 100% pure hypo coastals. I have a clutch of these hatching atm and more due in a week or so.


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## andynic07 (Jan 8, 2014)

[MENTION=1331]TrueBlue[/MENTION] , I thought I had read comments by you about the mode of inheritance of caramels before, maybe I am mixing it up with hypo's. Very nice hypo's by the way, I would love to get one of these one day.


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## TrueBlue (Jan 8, 2014)

No, not by me, as said I have never had anything to do with keeping caramels and never will. You will only find pure blood snakes in my collection and almost all are locality pure.


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## RedFox (Jan 8, 2014)

[MENTION=34534]andynic07[/MENTION] you may be thinking of [MENTION=1350]Colin[/MENTION]. Pretty sure Colin used to breed and keep sxr caramels. Info on them was also posted in a recent thread. The sunglow one???


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## andynic07 (Jan 8, 2014)

RedFox said:


> @andynic07 you may be thinking of @Colin. Pretty sure Colin used to breed and keep sxr caramels. Info on them was also posted in a recent thread. The sunglow one???


You might be right, I will have a read through that thread to see if it rings any bells. Too much reading lately and I am mixing things up.


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## Colin (Jan 9, 2014)

I had a notification someone mentioned me in this thread, so here's some definitions related to the thread topic and some reference to comments on caramels. cheers

Definitions from vmsherp learning centre:

*het or heterozygous *- Having two paired alleles of different case (Aa). Typically, these animals appear normal, being indistinguishable from normal homozygous animals (AA).
*Recessive *- Recessive alleles will only be visible if paired with another recessive allele. Typically, any animal expressing an abnormal trait is in possession of a matched pair of recessive alleles, while any animal appearing normal may or may not be carrying one recessive allele. (There are a few exceptions to this - more on them later.)
*Hypomelanism - *This trait is actually quite similar to amelanism. Tyrosinase is produced but is blocked from gaining access into the melanophores. Therefore, the amounts of melanin produced are substantially reduced. Often areas which would normally appear solid black are almost transparent, perhaps translucent would be more accurate). Additionally. many specimens seem to have reduced amounts of melanophores present. This may simply be the result of selection for the brighter coloration in captive populations. It is likely that several different alleles may be at work here, all lumped under the term hypomelanism by herpetoculturists.
*Melanophores - *These cells synthesize and contain black and brown pigmentation known as melanin. There are two kinds of melanophores present, dermal and epidermal. Dermal melanophores are located in the upper dermis, while epidermal melanophores are located in the lower epidermis skin layers.The process of creating melanin is fairly simple. Tyrosine, which is a type of amino acid, is converted into dopa, and then into dopaquinone in the presence of tyrosinase, which is synthesized by the melanophores. Dopaquinone is later modified into melanin and deposited in the appropriate melanophores. This is the root of the terms 'Tyrosinase-positive (T+)' and 'Tyrosinase negative (T-)' albinos.In T- albinos, tyrosinase is not produced by the melanophores and no melanin is ever created in the melanophores. The result is an animal possessing absolutely no black or dark brown pigment whatsoever. In the T+ form of albino, tyrosinase is produced but is blocked from gaining access into the melanophores. Simply put, all the parts are there - they just can't mix. However, in most specimens there is a certain amount of 'mixing' that occurs by cells disrupting or possibly by osmotic transfer. The exact method is unclear, and may vary. What is clear is that T+ albinos are generally darker than their counterparts, often containing traces of melanin deposits that result in a slightly darker look than the T- albinos of the same specie. Often red coloration is particularly prominent and many times the eyes are dramatically darker than expected.


*"without black you get white"* not 100% sure that's correct hayden (No-two) maybe visually white but actually transparent might be more accurate? what colour fur do polar bears have? most people say white but its incorrect.. its transparent. The hair of a polar bear looks white because the air spaces in each hair scatter light of all colors. The color white becomes visible to our eyes when an object reflects back all of the visible wavelengths of light, rather than absorbing some of the wavelengths. As I said I'm not exactly sure whats correct. I'm just suggesting an alternative opinion on the subject.

I don't have much interest in many morphs or the "morph scene" these days.. I prefer to keep and breed pure line animals.. 

the threads I commented on sxr caramels were
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/orange-pepper-207481/page/5 
post #64 
post#66
post#75
wayne larks post #72 

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/sunglows-210325/page/6
post #77


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