# Keep your cats indoors!



## alexbee (Mar 9, 2016)

Saw this post on Facebook yesterday, terrible the amount of people who think the snake is in the wrong. This coastal probably just saved the lives of many native Australian animals.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ating-the-neighbours-cat-20160308-gndqez.html


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## alichamp (Mar 9, 2016)

It is sad that someone lost their pet cat (if they did) but



alexbee said:


> This coastal probably just saved the lives of many native Australian animals.



Totally agree with you. Irresponsible pet ownership particularly with destructive pets like cats doesn't fail to frustrate me.

in Canberra we have angry people because of brown snakes around and "interactions" with dogs. I feel people need to understand and respect that we are the bush capital and there will be lots of snakes around so learn to live with it. Yes, you might need to adapt, particularly if you choose to live next to a reserve.


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## Herpo (Mar 9, 2016)

This is always a touchy subject, but I agree we have to be responsible pet owners.

Just as we would accept a pet snake getting eaten if a stupid owner released him in a residential area, or a bird being eaten after being released, cat owners need to realise and accept that by letting their cats roam, they are exposing them to danger. I love both cats and snakes, so this is tough to stomach, but at the end of the day, alexbee is right, that coastal just saved many lives.


What frustrates ME is that this could've been prevented if the owner was responsible!


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## cement (Mar 9, 2016)

Ahhh, good ol aussie native justice 

Responsible cat owners!! Your in the minority there herpo. 
I've had 4 snakes killed just this week from cats, the owners ring me up because their crapping their pants that the baby eastern brown (swampy, hatchling GTS) is from a nest and where theres a nest means theres a big mumma out there, meanwhile the cats rolling around in the grass like it owns the joint.


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## Nero Egernia (Mar 9, 2016)

Another cat thread and soon the cat hate will spill forth, and I understand the cat hate. But I also find that dogs can be just as damaging to our native wildlife just as much as cats. Perhaps not as devastating as free roaming pet and feral cats, but owners need to take responsibility for them as well. However, there is a minority that do take responsibility. Cats generally target smaller wildlife but large dogs target larger wildlife, from large native birds, mammals and large reptiles. They also have no problem targeting small wildlife either that are usually the cats' prey. I have had to remove large monitors a couple of times because someone's dogs had gotten into a fight with it and had bitten off its tail or crippled its leg etc (I'm not a professional re-locator, just for neighbors/friends). There are also countless of times where dogs kill snakes too. Also, in my experience, the majority of dog owners I come across appear to harbor a deep hatred for snakes, often blaming them for attacking their dogs and killing them, never mind the fact that the snakes were defending themselves from an otherwise aggressive or playful dog. 

The same old tune of a snake, or monitor, or whatever, that harms people's pets will always be sung unfortunately. People are hardwired to protect their family and pets, and there's nothing wrong with protecting them. But they need to do it in a different manner. Wantonly killing what they do not understand is not the answer. Surely there are ways to peacefully co-exist, ways in which people understand that their pets are truly the ones causing harm and not our native reptiles. Eh, or maybe I'm just being too hopeful. It hasn't happened yet in this thread, but please, don't get vicious over the great cat debate.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 9, 2016)

At least the snake killed the cat so it could eat it.... 

had the cat's owners kept the cat inside , it would still be alive .... good ridence to it .... I have zero sympathy for the cat or it's owners.


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## Iguana (Mar 10, 2016)

As someone who owns a cat, I have seen firsthand the damage they can do to wildlife. I can also tell you how hard it is to keep a cat indoors, once someone opens a door he rushes out, only to return much later in the day, usually with a skink or something of the sort. I do try extremely hard to not let him roam around for more than a few hours, but even then damage can be done.
To be perfectly honest, I didn't want the cat, I don't like cats because of their destructive habits, he was sort of inherited. To keep an animal who's basic instincts are to hunt and roam around, indoors all day is hard to do. especially the younger ones. However, I'm not defending cats or their irresponsible owners, but most of the time they don't understand or care enough to prevent their animal from hurting wildlife. I'm just saying it's harder than many think to suppress instincts, especially if owners ignore or condone it, then it's a fault on their part.


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## ronhalling (Mar 10, 2016)

Hmmmm, I don't think pornography like that belongs on this forum............."Pussy Eating" what next?  .............Ron


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## Herpo (Mar 10, 2016)

Ron, if there was an award or something, you'd have it! I practically woke every one in my house up laughing at that.

What annoys me is you'd think people would realise. We've seen heaps of these cases where the cat gets eaten, and the pics end up on the news. Yet still owners let the cat free, thinking they are somehow too special for their cat to suffer.


I must admit when I saw your name, kingofnobbys, I got a bit scared there'd be another cat hater thread. But your post reflects my sentiments; I pity neither cat nor owner. Once the cat is in nature, it abides by nature's rules.


Oh well, cheers,
Herpo


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## Pauls_Pythons (Mar 10, 2016)

ronhalling said:


> Hmmmm, I don't think pornography like that belongs on this forum............."Pussy Eating" what next?  .............Ron



Roflmao. Excellent Ron.

Otherwise another cat thread, destined to end the same way.
Can only say as much as I despise the things it's not the cat's to blame, they just do what they are wired to do. Problem is, as it always was, the owners. Irrisponsible morons for the biggest part that leave the minority facing the contempt of those who hate cats.


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## Smittiferous (Mar 10, 2016)

Glad to see the python got a good meal rather than a shovel, and yes, shame on the owner (if there is indeed one) for letting their pet roam free.

Unfortunately my cats do get out once in a while. Never seen them come home with anything though, probably because the humans killed all the wildlife when they bulldozed the area and covered it with suburbia...


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## cement (Mar 10, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> Glad to see the python got a good meal rather than a shovel, and yes, shame on the owner (if there is indeed one) for letting their pet roam free.
> 
> Unfortunately my cats do get out once in a while. Never seen them come home with anything though, probably because the humans killed all the wildlife when they bulldozed the area and covered it with suburbia...



Suburbia is not empty of wildlife. Humans and wildlife can live together just fine, yes even in suburban areas, it just takes some education on the humans part and everything is allright. 
Yes it is unfortunate that your cats (more than one?) get out at all, you seem handy on the tools smitti, why not build them a nice big cage? You can display the build step by step on here and help all the other cat owners that somehow can't seem to keep their pets under control at all times.

We have lost 7 dogs that I know of here on the central coast to snake bite this season, 3 of those have called me to look for or remove the snakes. These three are well aware that it is the dog being aggressive to the snake not the other way round. BUT...... dogs can be trained to leave wildlife alone, proven.
Cats can't and therefore need to be locked up.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 10, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> Glad to see the python got a good meal rather than a shovel, and yes, shame on the owner (if there is indeed one) for letting their pet roam free.
> 
> Unfortunately my cats do get out once in a while. Never seen them come home with anything though, probably because the humans killed all the wildlife when they bulldozed the area and covered it with suburbia...



You should know , since you are into reptiles, that suburbia is perfect for many native species of reptile and bird and even for frogs, load of good habitat (plants in gardens, and garden beds, and warm places to bask and take refuge). 

You don't see your cats which you let roam ( grrr .... NOT IMPRESSED !! ) bringing home their victims because they have probably exterminated most the local wildlife near your home .... NOT because the land has been been cleared and turned into suburbia. 

And your cats will still be killing everything they can even if they don't bring it home to show to you. I wont say more as I don't wish to be banned for personally attacking you. 

Do local indigenous wild life a huge favour - keep your dammed cats inside 24/7.


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## Herpo (Mar 10, 2016)

That's easier said than done king. Some cats are hard to control, which is why I sympathise with Smitti and Iguana. Our cat got outside once as a kitten (although to be fair she got no further than the driveway) and our first got outside twice. We caught them both within 5 mins, but that was because they were indoors confused with the new smells. A cat used to them could have bolted, and that.makes them tough to control.

What we need is a way to discourage irresponsible owners from owning cats. Given the strong opinions against cats, I'd even go for a licensing system. But it isn't a big enough problem in the eyes of our politicians...

Aye, this subject is touchy. But it goes to show how much we've grown since the last cat thread. Talking like civilised people and not at each others throats lol.

Cheers,
Herpo


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## Pauls_Pythons (Mar 10, 2016)

Herpo said:


> Aye, this subject is touchy. But it goes to show how much we've grown since the last cat thread. Talking like civilised people and not at each others throats lol



Not yet anyway



Herpo said:


> What we need is a way to discourage irresponsible owners from owning cats. Given the strong opinions against cats, I'd even go for a licensing system. But it isn't a big enough problem in the eyes of our politicians...



There is a draft abatement plan, haven't read it but it made the news in Adelaide earlier this week although I missed the story.
http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/threat-abatement-plans/draft-feral-cats-2015


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## Smittiferous (Mar 10, 2016)

[MENTION=4778]cement[/MENTION] I'd actually love to build a nice big cat run, unfortunately I am merely a tenant and have Buckley's chance of getting permission to do such things. 

My area of suburbia is actually quite devoid of any terrestrial natives unfortunately. As are the rest of the new suburban areas springing up all around my neck of the woods. Only things I have ever seen here are mice.

Dogs are trainable, and sure, can be trained not to interfere with wildlife, but I've never met a dog owner who has done so. So that falls back to dog owners. Just saying.

@kingo***obbys are you familiar with how they find new land for these monstrosities of housing estates? By bulldozing everything. Two Km from my house they cleared a huge nature reserve, putting houses and roads and all that. Not a single tree left standing. What creatures will stay put while all that is going on? Sorry mate but you've got to be kidding yourself if you believe any kind of native population can be maintained after the scorched earth policy that is urban expansion. Trust me, I know, I earned a living building these estates for ten years.

I also do not like my cats on the loose for a multitude of reasons including but not limited to destruction of wildlife, native or otherwise but one does get out on occasion. Luckily the other one is dead terrified of the great outdoors.

Anyway I'm stepping out of this thread now.


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 10, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> @cement I'd actually love to build a nice big cat run, unfortunately I am merely a tenant and have Buckley's chance of getting permission to do such things.
> 
> My area of suburbia is actually quite devoid of any terrestrial natives unfortunately. As are the rest of the new suburban areas springing up all around my neck of the woods. Only things I have ever seen here are mice.
> 
> ...



Yet the local kids will have no problem finding and catching lizards and other natives in these housing estates (because they bother to actually look using their eyes and look when they are about).

Just because scrub and bush has been bulldozed, doesn't mean the majority of native animals who live in your area have been killed, even most , or even a large portion of them , native animals run away, sliver away, fly away, and return later. I've seen this many times in new estates, there are many such estates near my suburb ,all of which are fringed by rural land, or bush or even natural parks and reserves.

Time to stop making excuses and to start being a responsible cat owner.


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## cement (Mar 11, 2016)

Smittiferous said:


> @cement I'd actually love to build a nice big cat run, unfortunately I am merely a tenant and have Buckley's chance of getting permission to do such things.
> 
> My area of suburbia is actually quite devoid of any terrestrial natives unfortunately. As are the rest of the new suburban areas springing up all around my neck of the woods. Only things I have ever seen here are mice.
> 
> ...



Mate, don't take this the wrong way, but this offering here sounds a lot like a cop out.
If your a tenant and allowed to have cats then your allowed to keep them the way they NEED to be kept. Ive seen your enclosure building threads can't you stretch your imagination and design something perfectly suited to renters like a portable run? pack it up and take it with ya, have cat will travel....
As for dogs, mine was well trained. Also many of my friends dogs are well trained, and I have a friend in FNQ who has a pack of 8-10 pigging dogs all extremely well trained. In fact his property is a well known sanctuary, he breeds crocs and cassowaries, it's like a zoo but very grass roots. They had a dingo pup that was going through the process last time I was there, it was tempted to stalk and attack the wallabies but they were working it out simply.
Ive been a lic builder for 30 years with major interests in conservation, it takes 7 years to establish a yards garden, by this time the natives fauna are easily able to come back. I've been a reptile relocator for 10 years and I can garantee 100% that with the right environments and the native species of vegetation that the councils are now advocating with any development, the native fauna follows. Just because an area is devoid for a year or two doesn't mean its the end, once things are established they return. Educating the people that native animals aren't going to attack and kill them or their kids is the ONLY hard part.


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## Nero Egernia (Mar 11, 2016)

It's great that you and your mates have trained your dogs well, Cement! But as Smitti said, many dog owners just don't put in the effort to train their dogs to leave wildlife alone. Heck, most dogs owners I've come across haven't been bothered to teach their dogs effective recalls! Or to go potty outside . . . :facepalm:

However, the bottom line is, people need to take responsibility for their pets - both cats and dogs.


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## Herpo (Mar 11, 2016)

Oshkii said:


> It's great that you and your mates have trained your dogs well, Cement! But as Smitti said, many dog owners just don't put in the effort to train their dogs to leave wildlife alone. Heck, most dogs owners I've come across haven't been bothered to teach their dogs effective recalls! Or to go potty outside . . . :facepalm:
> 
> However, the bottom line is, people need to take responsibility for their pets - both cats and dogs.


^this

People need to get there act together and prove they deserve a pet. Otherwise the blame falls back on the few that are responsible!


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## PythonLegs (Mar 11, 2016)

The government should say right now that owning a nondesexed cat will carry a nice fat fine, and in 2036 all cats will be shot on sight.


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## alexbee (Mar 11, 2016)

How does a cat escape? Im sure i could keep one inside a house, id just check before opening a door. If i saw a cat attacking a native animal i honestly don't think the cat would have long left. I don't hate cats, i'm an animal lover but i wouldnt tolerate seeing that. Where would you stand in the eyes of the law if you say killed a cat that you found attacking say a snake? always wondered that


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## BredliFreak (Mar 11, 2016)

Alexbee good point, but I wouldn't be surprised that they get out they are sneaky *******s. At 4:30 in the morning when it's meowing there wouldn't be much choice but to let it out which is a downside of cats (why can't they learn to use their litter box?). 

As as for the law, I guess you would be seen as a psychopath, but I'm not sure whether they would charge you.


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## alexbee (Mar 11, 2016)

So many people already think of reptile lovers as psychopaths lol.. funny that the public would see you as a psychopath and yet someone who hacks a 20 year old snake to death with a shovel is normal.. 




BredliFreak said:


> Alexbee good point, but I wouldn't be surprised that they get out they are sneaky *******s. At 4:30 in the morning when it's meowing there wouldn't be much choice but to let it out which is a downside of cats (why can't they learn to use their litter box?).
> 
> As as for the law, I guess you would be seen as a psychopath, but I'm not sure whether they would charge you.


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## BredliFreak (Mar 11, 2016)

Lol I'm already a psychopath so I don't need to worry 

I wouldn't say hacking a snake to death is normal in our society but it isn't shamed upon like killing a cat would be. Most people (IMO) would be somewhat sympathetic/grossed out (maybe the way they kill it is a factor?) but not to the extent of fuzzy animals (like comparing feral rabbits and cane toads, which do people have more sympathy more )


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## Stompsy (Mar 11, 2016)

alexbee said:


> How does a cat escape? Im sure i could keep one inside a house, id just check before opening a door. If i saw a cat attacking a native animal i honestly don't think the cat would have long left. I don't hate cats, i'm an animal lover but i wouldnt tolerate seeing that. Where would you stand in the eyes of the law if you say killed a cat that you found attacking say a snake? always wondered that



I have two cats who are both indoor only and they are sneaky little so and so's. One I can safely say would rather be inside because he's a sooky la la, but the other sneaks out whenever she gets a chance! Luckily she never goes far because of all the lovely smells!! 

Kids and old people do make it difficult to keep cats locked up. 


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## AdhamhRuadh (Mar 11, 2016)

I usually stay out of these "Cat People vs. Non-Cat People" threads, as they never really get anywhere, but I will say that, generally, if you're cat is trying desperately to escape from your house every time you open the door, its requirements are not being properly met. This could include a lack of mental and/or physical stimulation (very important), stressful indoor environment (possibly caused by other animals/pets/people), lack of suitable litter tray/s (they can be fairly picky with placement, type of litter used, etc.), dietary requirements not being sufficiently met, etc. As a lifelong cat lover, and owner of two 100% indoor cats, I can assure you that if all of their needs are being met indoors, most (obviously there will always be the rare individual that differs, as with all animals) will not make any attempts to leave the comfort of their home. Why would they need to? I can literally open the front door with one or both of them sitting/laying on the door mat and they will not move a muscle. This is in contrast to when my older of the two was younger and had to be confined to a master bedroom and ensuite (due to living arrangements). He would wait at the bedroom door and leap out with impressive speed as soon as the door was even slightly opened. Once we moved and he was allowed full use of the house, this changed completely.

Sorry for the length of such a simple post, but long story short; provide the right environment for them and there is no need for a cat to ever be outside.

Adam


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## Stompsy (Mar 11, 2016)

AdhamhRuadh said:


> I usually stay out of these "Cat People vs. Non-Cat People" threads, as they never really get anywhere, but I will say that, generally, if you're cat is trying desperately to escape from your house every time you open the door, its requirements are not being properly met. This could include a lack of mental and/or physical stimulation (very important), stressful indoor environment (possibly caused by other animals/pets/people), lack of suitable litter tray/s (they can be fairly picky with placement, type of litter used, etc.), dietary requirements not being sufficiently met, etc. As a lifelong cat lover, and owner of two 100% indoor cats, I can assure you that if all of their needs are being met indoors, most (obviously there will always be the rare individual that differs, as with all animals) will not make any attempts to leave the comfort of their home. Why would they need to? I can literally open the front door with one or both of them sitting/laying on the door mat and they will not move a muscle. This is in contrast to when my older of the two was younger and had to be confined to a master bedroom and ensuite (due to living arrangements). He would wait at the bedroom door and leap out with impressive speed as soon as the door was even slightly opened. Once we moved and he was allowed full use of the house, this changed completely.
> 
> Sorry for the length of such a simple post, but long story short; provide the right environment for them and there is no need for a cat to ever be outside.
> 
> Adam



While I completely understand what you are saying, I have to disagree. 

My cats have been indoors from day dot, have everything they could need and want, have moved three times and yet the little girl just wants out to explore. And it's not like she bolts for the door every time she hears it open, but if there's an opportunity to walk out, she will. She's a sticky nose! I also used to take them walking around the garden on a leash (not so much anymore) and this made her want out a lot more. 


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## AdhamhRuadh (Mar 11, 2016)

[MENTION=17341]akarsha[/MENTION] Yep, I understand that there is certainly exceptions, which is why included the "obviously there will always be the rare individual that differs" remark. I was also referring primarily to people that say that they are "unable" to keep their cats inside, as they run out every chance they get. What I was covering is a general concept that applies in most cases with enough thought and effort. Individual experiences may vary. And I'm not questioning your methods or having a dig, but in your case it sounds simple enough to keep her indoors if she will "walk out" if given the opportunity; remove the opportunity by not leaving doors open for long enough for her to walk out.  I mean, I'm sure that even my cats would go outside eventually if the door was left open, but our house has a strict no open door policy. 
As far as the outside leash making her want out more: this is always going to be the case; if they are allowed outside with any regularity, they will obviously feel that it is their right.

Adam


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## Stompsy (Mar 11, 2016)

AdhamhRuadh said:


> [MENTION=17341]akarsha[/MENTION] Yep, I understand that there is certainly exceptions, which is why included the "obviously there will always be the rare individual that differs" remark. I was also referring primarily to people that say that they are "unable" to keep their cats inside, as they run out every chance they get. What I was covering is a general concept that applies in most cases with enough thought and effort. Individual experiences may vary. And I'm not questioning your methods or having a dig, but in your case it sounds simple enough to keep her indoors if she will "walk out" if given the opportunity; remove the opportunity by not leaving doors open for long enough for her to walk out.  I mean, I'm sure that even my cats would go outside eventually if the door was left open, but our house has a strict no open door policy.
> As far as the outside leash making her want out more: this is always going to be the case; if they are allowed outside with any regularity, they will obviously feel that it is their right.
> 
> Adam



Living with kids and a 96 year old, very slow nana, doesn't help with the 'no door open' policy. [emoji13]


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## kingofnobbys (Mar 11, 2016)

akarsha said:


> Living with kids and a 96 year old, very slow nana, doesn't help with the 'no door open' policy. [emoji13]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




That's a cough out and very lame excuse for not managing / controlling your cat/s IMO.

If YOU REALLY WANT to keep your cat/s inside, you'll find a way , no IFs , no BUTs. 

If you can't / wont manage / control it/them then you shouldn't be allowed to keep a cat.


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## Wally (Mar 11, 2016)

Ah this old chestnut... 

Being debated by the usual crew too I see. :lol:


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## Stompsy (Mar 11, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> That's a cough out and very lame excuse for not managing / controlling your cat/s IMO.
> 
> If YOU REALLY WANT to keep your cat/s inside, you'll find a way , no IFs , no BUTs.
> 
> If you can't / wont manage / control it/them then you shouldn't be allowed to keep a cat.



As previously stated, my cats are indoor only. I even go to the extreme's of locking them in my room when I'm not home to make sure they don't get out. 

They are controlled. 

They have been indoor only since I got them. 

Read my post and maybe not jump to conclusions or down my throat before posting. 

Also, the last time I checked, it is not actually illegal for cats to be outside. I'm a responsible cat owner. 

And your post will be reported. 


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