# Think you want a lacey?



## diamond_reptiles (Mar 9, 2014)

You think you want a Lacey?
Firstly I just want to say that I have kept alot of Lizards (Blue Tongues, Bearded Dragons, Gidgees, Ridge Tail Monitors, Spencer Monitors, Water Dragons, Garden Lizards, Water Monitor plus more)

These are not a first time pet. They take ALOT more work then any other lizard. They can do more then a hell of alot of damage and most cannot be tamed. Not like your other lizards.
IF you want a Lace Monitor, please spend a few years researching and gaining experience with other Lizards, there are to many people who get a Lacie and then sell it because 'It bit them' or 'It scratched them' or 'They cannot hold it'.

For example:
My Lacie is 2 years old, she is kinda hand able. Once out and in my hands she is fine. Though she tolerates it. (Before people ask, she likes to be out and likes to lick my face and has a wonderful personality). She will take alot of time to tame down as previous owners were horrible to her. 
These monitors can take years to tame. Alot of work needs to be put into them. Not a quick 5 minutes like bearded dragons and blue tongues (More like 2 minutes) 

There are ways to tame them and they are NOT EASY! 
Plus their food aggression can be very...well...lets just say dangerous at times.
They can be expensive to feed. ($15 a week for me) 

I personally feel that these animals can be trusted after THEY TRUST YOU but as I said above: Time and Patience.


If you want a Lacie, make sure you have serious experience and time to give it. Plus dont be a sook if it bites or scratches you (No offence to anyone)

Respect the Lacie, trust it.
Let them respect you, let them trust you.

- Cheers


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## Boiga (Mar 9, 2014)

Don't ever trust a lacie.


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## Shotta (Mar 9, 2014)

is this referring to a recent post or something?,i don't think anyone would be stupid enough to buy a lacie without prior knowledge or experience


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## cridon96 (Mar 9, 2014)

I think the word "Tame" gets thrown around to much.

I used to have two lacies and they where fantastic, used to come out follow me around the house and even sit on the sofa with me and watch a bit of TV however I don't know that I would describe them as "Tame".

Lacies are a lot of work and will eat you out of home but they are such a rewarding animal to own and admire (often watching you as much as you watch them) as long as you respect them and remember what they are capable of. 

I do agree not a good lizard for first timers and should be avoided unless you have the time experience and space to keep them properly, remember that little lizard you see in the shop will grow and grow and grow.


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## diamond_reptiles (Mar 9, 2014)

I've been reading on other sites, and previous posts about people getting Lacie's without using the brain 1st.


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## Ramsayi (Mar 9, 2014)

Letting a lacey lick your face? Might be wise to have a rethink about letting it do that.


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## serpenttongue (Mar 9, 2014)

There are still idiots out there taking wild ones from the bush without ever having experience with them. 

Like I've always said: if you're thinking about keeping a lace monitor, first visit a lace monitor keeper and be present during feeding time. This is when you'll see what lacies are all about! 

I will never trust a lace monitor......ever!


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## crocdoc (Mar 9, 2014)

diamond_reptiles said:


> Alot of work needs to be put into them. Not a quick 5 minutes like bearded dragons and blue tongues (More like 2 minutes)


Force handling is a sure way to fail with lace monitors.



diamond_reptiles said:


> I personally feel that these animals can be trusted after THEY TRUST YOU...


My first bit of advice: Never post about a topic until you've had more experience than a couple of years. My apologies for being a bit rough on you, but your advice is dangerous. 
My second bit of advice: Never trust a lace monitor.

I've got a pair of monitors that are almost 14 years old. They are as calm (I'm not about to use 'tame' unless it's in apostrophes) as any lace monitor you'll ever see to the point that I let them out to wander around my home on most days and work on my computer while they cruise around. After 14 years there is one thing I can say for sure: I trust them less and less each year. The 'tamer' they seem, the more dangerous they are as the more complacent people become with them. I only let them out because I am familiar with their behaviour but I stopped letting them out when friends visit many years ago.

You'll never get a defensive bite out of either of them. It just wouldn't occur to them to bite in self defence. Even getting a hiss out of either one is hard. However, their feeding response is undiminished and even after 14 years I am frequently reminded that I am only one silly mistake away from a serious bite requiring hospitalisation, with a possible loss of fingers or toes. I've had enough 'wake up calls' to remind me of what they're capable of. Something as ordinary as dropping an electrical cord on the floor while putting an iron away has been known to trigger a feeding response in one of them and within a fraction of a second I have a large, hungry lace monitor, whose head is darting back and forth, ready to bite the first thing that moves, right next to my thong clad foot. I now more often wear boots when they are out, for that very reason.

Lace monitors are not 'pets'. Your monitor 'licking' your face is not being affectionate. Curious, perhaps, but not affectionate. I would not let mine near enough to my face to do that, either, because one day one of them (the male, most likely) would pick up the scent of lunch on my lips and my face would be history, pronto. I probably might have let them tongue flick my face when I had only been keeping them for a couple of years, though, when I thought I knew what lace monitors were about. Like you.



diamond_reptiles said:


> Plus dont be a sook if it bites or scratches you


 If you do cop a bite when your lace monitor is full size, it's possible that you will not be a sook, but as you are recovering from hand surgery and coming to the realisation that you have permanent damage to the functionality of one of your hands, you will probably wonder how you got there. My advice is to not put yourself in a position in which this could happen.


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## JAS101 (Mar 9, 2014)

diamond_reptiles said:


> You think you want a Lacey?
> Firstly I just want to say that I have kept alot of Lizards (Blue Tongues, Bearded Dragons, Gidgees, Ridge Tail Monitors, Spencer Monitors, Water Dragons, Garden Lizards, Water Monitor plus more)
> 
> These are not a first time pet. They take ALOT more work then any other lizard. They can do more then a hell of alot of damage and most cannot be tamed. Not like your other lizards.
> ...



dude you are an accident waiting to happen , never ever let a lace get anywhere near your face . I don't care how " tame" it seems , its one food response waiting to tear your face apart . dude that's one 0 from a 000 phone call to say my " tame" lace has just ripped my face off .


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## The_Geeza (Mar 9, 2014)

Diamond has made quite an impact for a newbie tonight


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## Radar (Mar 9, 2014)

Some good info in this thread, thanks.


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## eipper (Mar 9, 2014)

If you continue to allow it lick your face you will end up assisting the bank balance of a plastic surgeon


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## serpenttongue (Mar 9, 2014)

diamond_reptiles said:


> Before people ask, she likes to be out and likes to lick my face



This has just reminded me; a month or so ago I saw a photo on FB of a young lad letting his lace monitor lick his face. I don't suppose that was you?


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## ReptiBeck (Mar 9, 2014)

serpenttongue said:


> This has just reminded me; a month or so ago I saw a photo on FB of a young lad letting his lace monitor lick his face. I don't suppose that was you?



Wouldn't have been. He only just got this lacey.

By the way, its not a big lacey, im sure he isnt going to let it near his face/head when its bigger...! its only about a foot long...about 1.5 feet with tail.

Chris has kept snakes and lizards for years and has wanted a lacey since he was younger, hes talked to me about them enthusiastically since i met him last year, he knows plenty about them and has very close friends who actually breed reptiles including monitors-waters, lacies, all the big breeds. he has experience feeding and handling them, even big adults.

Chris is very passionate about his reptiles and his first lacey-the pet hes wanted since he was about 10-especially has him ecstatic. he never wrote "i let her lick my face" he just said that she 'likes to'. ive seen the lacey do this, and he doesnt let it right at his face, just on his shoulder and its tongue flicked and would make contact with his face.
he is very careful handling the lacey, always keeps a hand on her back in case she did anything so he could grab and pull her away, and as i said he has experience handling monitors, including an adult lacey (monitor staying on the ground of course)

now i know some of you guys are totally correct and im not necesarily taking Chris' side on this, but just clarifying as he is a great friend of mine and dont want his first experience on aps to be a negative one!


Excuse the grammar errors...its late and im tired


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## Trimeresurus (Mar 9, 2014)

He only just got it and is offering advice?

Will be interesting to see 'Think you want a scrubby? ' or 'Think you want a coastal tai' if he ever gets them.


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## whyme (Mar 9, 2014)

This was from a ft long lacie. And I stress, it was NOT a bite. It was a glancing kiss!!!!


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## Londos1990 (Mar 9, 2014)

>.<


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## insitu (Mar 9, 2014)

Shotta said:


> is this referring to a recent post or something?,i don't think anyone would be stupid enough to buy a lacie without prior knowledge or experience


 plenty of people do, then post pics handling it as a hatchling then a year or so later start asking for advice on how to manage it and usually dont listen, then put it up for sale a few months later, pretty sad for the animals really! but most people see photos or demonstrators at expos etc with BIG lizards draped over them like puppy dogs and want to just go buy one like that, unfortunately it takes a lot of years to get to that stage, as for the kid that posted the thread the intention is there.......... be careful dude they arent animals you want to learn from your mistakes from


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## Ramy (Mar 9, 2014)

ReptiBeck said:


> Chris has kept snakes and lizards for years and has wanted a lacey since he was younger, hes talked to me about them enthusiastically since i met him last year, he knows plenty about them and has very close friends who actually breed reptiles including monitors-waters, lacies, all the big breeds.



No one is trying to pick on him, however it's hard to read that original post without being amused by the irony. Enthusiasm doesn't equal experience, unfortunately. And while the spirit of the OP is good, it _does_ contradict itself. That irony is what people are seeing. Well, and this;



diamond_reptiles said:


> If you want a Lacie, make sure you have serious experience and time to give it. Plus dont be a sook if it bites or scratches you (No offence to anyone)



Better advice might have included *Be prepared for bites and scratches to be vicious.* The term "sook" implies crying over paper cuts, not realising your mistake in buying a lacey after a bad bite.


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## ReptiBeck (Mar 9, 2014)

insitu said:


> plenty of people do, then post pics handling it as a hatchling then a year or so later start asking for advice on how to manage it and usually dont listen, then put it up for sale a few months later, pretty sad for the animals really! but most people see photos or demonstrators at expos etc with BIG lizards draped over them like puppy dogs and want to just go buy one like that, unfortunately it takes a lot of years to get to that stage, as for the kid that posted the thread the intention is there.......... be careful dude they arent animals you want to learn from your mistakes from



it may take years, but you have to start somewhere...the risk is there, but what pet doesnt have risks?! yeah, it could cut you deep enough to bleed out in minutes, but a dog could do that too. a large snake could. i have a horse, a 600kg beast that could kill me with one flinch!
also, he isnt exactly a 'kid'

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Ramy said:


> No one is trying to pick on him, however it's hard to read that original post without being amused by the irony. Enthusiasm doesn't equal experience, unfortunately. And while the spirit of the OP is good, it _does_ contradict itself. That irony is what people are seeing. Well, and this;
> 
> 
> 
> Better advice might have included *Be prepared for bites and scratches to be vicious.* The term "sook" implies crying over paper cuts, not realising your mistake in buying a lacey after a bad bite.



Yeah, i do agree. and i think this was more of a venting thing for him rather than giving advice, to be honest. oh well.


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## whyme (Mar 9, 2014)

Without sounding nasty, if he has plenty of friends who breed the larger monitors, he should know the respect they deserve.


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## Rogue5861 (Mar 9, 2014)

To the OP. Please Do not under estimate to power and speed of a Lace monitor. They can cause serious damage to you or your family and are never to be trusted.

If you havent already i would suggest watching "How not to feed a big monitor lizard" on youtube, it doesnt show the aftermath but definately give you a glimpse of what they are capable of.


Rick


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## ReptiBeck (Mar 9, 2014)

Rogue5861 said:


> To the OP. Please Do not under estimate to power and speed of a Lace monitor. They can cause serious damage to you or your family and are never to be trusted.
> 
> If you havent already i would suggest watching "How not to feed a big monitor lizard" on youtube, it doesnt show the aftermath but definately give you a glimpse of what they are capable of.
> 
> ...



his first experience on APS has scared him off haha


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## Rogue5861 (Mar 9, 2014)

ReptiBeck said:


> his first experience on APS has scared him off haha



Well please tell him to return and read what people have written. People have not written things to be nasty at all, it has all been said to make sure he will me making the right choices and to stay safe. No one wishes for him or the monitor to end up disappointed/injured based on the decision to keep such an amazing and powerful species.


Rick


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## whyme (Mar 9, 2014)

Maybe instead of scaring him, he could see it as educational. It's only people trying to look after his/the animals welfare;D


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## congo_python (Mar 9, 2014)

I have a mate that kept a lacie from a hatchy for 6 years, tamed it...so he thought until he moved them into an aviary and went in for a usual feeding and the male got over excited. He went past the tongs and bite him on the thumb and forefinger, he then had too keep the male back with his boot and throwing chicks at him till he could back out of the aviary... closed the door and made it as far as the outdoor setting on his outdoor area and sat down then passed out. 
He then woke up with blood still pouring out of his hand onto the floor, went inside and stopped the flow. He was taken to his work [ a hospital] where they flushed the wound, glued it back together and he said this was aganising. To this day he does not trust his tame Monitor anymore!! 

Just my two cents.


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## 2.3casper (Mar 9, 2014)

I have had them ,but I never trust them, I don't keep now cuz don't have the space but love them. to op everyone here is try to help sure it comes a cross hard some times and its hard to hear i know its happen to me it happens to ever one .but it can sound diff over txt or what ever you call it . So keep using aussie pythons it a very good place for reading and to talk with all types of ppl who love reptiles as much as you and I. You can get a lot of answers on here ,it's like a expo everyday with out leveing the house any how good luck with it all and be safe .


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## crocdoc (Mar 10, 2014)

ReptiBeck said:


> he never wrote "i let her lick my face" he just said that she 'likes to'.


Look, I know you're just defending your mate (although, it has to be said, the above defence is one of the lamest I've read ). I understand why you'd want to defend a mate and good on you for doing that. This isn't a personal attack. I don't know him, but I would guess he's a similar age to you? He might be a great guy and, as others have said, his intentions and enthusiasm are in the right direction. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that one should never offer advice on a topic one has little experience with, especially when dealing with potentially dangerous animals. There's a reason that lace monitors are class 2 reptiles in NSW, which means that they can't be sold to 15 year olds here. 




ReptiBeck said:


> always keeps a hand on her back in case she did anything so he could grab and pull her away


How long do you suppose it takes a lace monitor to 'do something' and what do you suppose having your other hand on its back is going to achieve?


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## eipper (Mar 10, 2014)

David,

Some people cannot be told. He will learn hopefully without spilling too much blood


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## insitu (Mar 10, 2014)

I know for a fact it gets a little tiring for experienced people like david to explain the same thing over and over to people, we arent having a go at anyone personally but after a while our answers get cut shorter and shorter as its frustrating to try to explain something that generally the person doesnt want to hear, my first varanids were lacies, and i listened when david gave me advice because i asked him for it, iv learnt more than anyone can tell me from my own animals but if i didnt listen to someone that had experience in the beginning i wouldnt be where i am today with my animals, i have some i can handle with no problems at all, some will actually seek attention and climb onto you to say hello when you enter the enclosure and then continue doing their thing when they have had their few minutes on your shoulder, and i am guilty of posting those pictures people look at and think id like one like that, but i also have one that will try to come through the glass at you as you walk past, i can work in that enclosure without any drama though once i have opened it and i have another that will not allow me in AT ALL! its taken me almost a year to be able to feed that animal from tongs and its these two animals that remind me everyday that lacies are the most dangerous reptile we are allowed to keep on an AKL and i keep elapids and perentie also, if you do it right a lacie can be one of the most rewarding animals you could keep but if you do it wrong it can be a dangerous nightmare for the rest of your life......... although unfortunately its those animals that get sold on to the next person to deal with someones mistakes and generally sold on again which is unfair for the animal, if you really want to keep them listen to everything people that have kept them tell you and by all means make your own decisions but we arent personally attacking you we are just concerned and generally more so for the animal than you


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## turtle (Mar 10, 2014)

I thought Chris's advise was quite sensible.


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## ReptiBeck (Mar 10, 2014)

crocdoc said:


> Look, I know you're just defending your mate (although, it has to be said, the above defence is one of the lamest I've read ). I understand why you'd want to defend a mate and good on you for doing that. This isn't a personal attack. I don't know him, but I would guess he's a similar age to you? He might be a great guy and, as others have said, his intentions and enthusiasm are in the right direction. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that one should never offer advice on a topic one has little experience with, especially when dealing with potentially dangerous animals. There's a reason that lace monitors are class 2 reptiles in NSW, which means that they can't be sold to 15 year olds here.
> 
> 
> 
> How long do you suppose it takes a lace monitor to 'do something' and what do you suppose having your other hand on its back is going to achieve?



He is 18. Im not exactly defending him, just his experience on APS  not sure if i said this before but i dont even agree with some of what he has said and i know most of you guys are exactly right


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## JAS101 (Mar 10, 2014)

*ReptiBeck* I think your friend has learnt a valuable lesson , if you post half cocked advice you will get corrected .


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## zulu (Mar 10, 2014)

Lacies are not that expensive to feed ,just pick up road kill ,always remove the bells off cats .


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## disintegratus (Mar 10, 2014)

zulu said:


> Lacies are not that expensive to feed ,just pick up road kill ,always remove the bells off cats .



why? If you don't take the bells off, if you're really quiet you can hear your lacie jingling as he stalks through the house.


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## -Peter (Mar 10, 2014)

zulu said:


> Lacies are not that expensive to feed ,just pick up road kill ,always remove the bells off cats .



That is really awful, I hadn't realised the bell could be a problem.


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## richardsc (Mar 10, 2014)

I have less trust in so called tame monitors,once they lose fear of you they can be an accident waiting to happen,they demand the utmost respect

If u want a tame lizard ,get a beardy or bluey


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## crocdoc (Mar 10, 2014)

insitu said:


> i have some i can handle with no problems at all, some will actually seek attention and climb onto you to say hello when you enter the enclosure and then continue doing their thing when they have had their few minutes on your shoulder





insitu said:


> i also have one that will try to come through the glass at you as you walk past, i can work in that enclosure without any drama though once i have opened it and i have another that will not allow me in AT ALL! its taken me almost a year to be able to feed that animal from tongs and its these two animals that remind me everyday that lacies are the most dangerous reptile we are allowed to keep on an AKL


In my opinion, the first monitor (the one that rides around on your shoulder) is the most dangerous of them all. They all have the same set of teeth, but only one is allowed close to your face.

Early on in the piece I had a routine with one of my monitors whereby I would open the enclosure, he'd crawl onto my shoulder and then ride around there as I did my chores. I understand why you do that and I agree that it is neat to have that sort of relationship with a reptile, but I would never let any of my monitors, no matter how tame I thought they were, anywhere near my face now. It's not that I've been bitten in the face, either. I just know how quickly 'food brain' kicks in with lace monitors and then all rules get thrown out the window. Unlike a dog, which is a social mammal which can be taught the concept of 'bad' (the dog may still bite you, but at least it will show signs of contrition  ), it wouldn't dawn on a lace monitor that it might be 'bad' to sample that bit of warm flesh you call a cheek, if the moment arose.

At some stage soon I'll be posting a video of my male lacie, Alex (the one in my avatar) showing some training I've been doing with him (it's an update of an earlier video I have on youtube). When you watch the video you'll not be able to imagine that animal ever biting anyone. He's not a malicious animal by any means and has a great temperament. He's never bitten anyone, yet. However, that animal has an insatiable appetite, lightning fast reflexes and a hair trigger. He's a liability. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

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richardsc said:


> I have less trust in so called tame monitors,once they lose fear of you they can be an accident waiting to happen,they demand the utmost respect


That.


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## insitu (Mar 10, 2014)

I dont have less trust in tame monitors, without trying to play on words too much i exercise more caution around damaged monitors in certain situations, comparing them to dogs is pointless! there is a high risk a properly conditioned animal that is used to people will eventually cause you some damage but IMO the one that was not conditioned properly and endured a mentally tortured upbringing is far more dangerous and is not predictable, the only thing that is predictable is YOUR actions around them and how you manage yourself around each individual, none of my monitors i actually get out and handle Goblins previous owner Richard had enclosures set around waist height and she was conditioned to crawl over him to reach the floor to explore, if i walk under a branch she is on in her enclosure she will crawl onto my shoulder and down my body to the ground, theres a perfectly fine tree she could use to reach the floor but she chooses to do this which i imagine provides her with some form of enrichment, i dont try to stop her reaching the floor though and try to perch her back on my shoulder as this game is not her intention, Bronsen has such a low and delicate feeding response i could quite comfortably hand feed her a chicken neck from my fingers, but that doesnt mean i do it! Django i can reach into his enclosure with a closed fist and he wont even bat an eye lid, if i tried it with an open hand i would undoubtedly lose fingers as i assume he associates an open hand with a lifetime of memories of being grabbed and restrained by one, conditioning your animals to be what we call "tame" is IMO a necessary part of keeping them though i dont feel its about being able to pick them up and walk around with them as if they are a stuffed tedy bear, its about them living a life in your care without stress and anxiety every time you walk past the enclosure or have to clean and feed them, these days i see countless threads and posts asking for advice on keeping lacies but i also see people disregard your advice if its not what they want to hear and will gladly take the advice of someone that has kept a hatchling for 6 months if it is what they want to hear so now i dont often offer advice unless im actually asked for it, i honestly dont care if your lizard nails you while your doing something stupid i just feel sorry for the animals that are brought up tortured


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## serpenttongue (Mar 10, 2014)

Rogue5861 said:


> If you havent already i would suggest watching "How not to feed a big monitor lizard" on youtube, it doesnt show the aftermath but definately give you a glimpse of what they are capable of.



That video should be compulsory viewing for anyone thinking about keeping lace monitors.


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## crocdoc (Mar 10, 2014)

insitu said:


> the only thing that is predictable is YOUR actions around them and how you manage yourself around each individual


That was the point I was trying to make about 'tame' monitors. If you have two animals of the same species, one that tries to bite you and another that comes across as relatively 'tame', the more dangerous of the two is the 'tame' one because you'll always take the appropriate precautions with the one that bites, whereas the other one may bite you when your guard is down. With lace monitors, there's a strong chance of a 'tame' one biting under certain conditions and the problem is that we can't always predict those conditions. Complacence is the enemy. I agree that having calm animals is a good thing as it makes keeping them so much easier, but I also freak when I see photos of (or hear people posting about) people taking unnecessary chances with parts of their body that they cherish. 




insitu said:


> ...these days i see countless threads and posts asking for advice on keeping lacies but i also see people disregard your advice if its not what they want to hear and will gladly take the advice of someone that has kept a hatchling for 6 months if it is what they want to hear so now i dont often offer advice unless im actually asked for it...


Ha, funny you should say that. I experienced a bit of that earlier today. 

By the way, you're probably aware of this, but I was Goblin's prior owner (before Richard).


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## stephensii (Mar 10, 2014)

i love my lacey to bits, handle her as often as i can and she doesn't care, but i still have scars on my wrist from being too complacent, bottom line be on your guard every second with them


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## AnimalsGirl (Mar 10, 2014)

"is this referring to a recent post or something?,i don't think anyone would be stupid enough to buy a lacie without prior knowledge or experience"

You would be surprised....Impulse buying applies to reptiles too for some people!


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## insitu (Mar 10, 2014)

crocdoc said:


> By the way, you're probably aware of this, but I was Goblin's prior owner (before Richard).



I am, Iv actually been meaning to ask you if you have any hatchling/juvenile shots of her still? just so i can keep an album together of everyone


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## crocdoc (Mar 10, 2014)

insitu said:


> I am, Iv actually been meaning to ask you if you have any hatchling/juvenile shots of her still? just so i can keep an album together of everyone



That's too funny, I have just posted some photographs of her as a hatchling before finding this post just now. I hadn't realised it was you, Josh, until you posted the comment on Goblin.


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## MesseNoire (Mar 30, 2014)

Noticed there is a Lacie for sale now........ I wonder.....?


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## marcus0002 (Mar 30, 2014)

wouldn't surprise me, he hasn't posted anything for a while.


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## RedFox (Mar 30, 2014)

If it is the same lacie, it sounds like the OP now understands how good the advice offered on this thread was. Hope the bite wasn't too bad.


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