# Snake Ranch Promotion



## Fester (Sep 10, 2007)

See the Snake Ranch have a promotion at the moment. 20% down and 20% discount on late 2007/early 2008 hatchies. Just ordered a female Tanami Woma, $600, males $520.


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## liebeknecht (Sep 10, 2007)

thanks for the heads up there isnt much that tends to change on their site

cheers


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## Lozza (Sep 10, 2007)

yep I've ordered a pair of wheatbelt stimmies and a pair of sandfire stimmies


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## grimbeny (Sep 10, 2007)

How is that 20% off? The website says female womas are 1400


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

Where does it say on the site about this special? I can't find it!!!!!


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

http://www.srsrk.com.au/pages/index.cfm?action=revised_pricelist


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh found it


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## Fester (Sep 10, 2007)

grimbeny said:


> How is that 20% off? The website says female womas are 1400


 
See link in Dodie's post


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## spilota_variegata (Sep 10, 2007)

Wow, hets for albino Darwins for $560 a male and $720 a female. Looks like the price has really dropped for hets


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

I think they are 66% het's, still cheap though


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## Ramsayi (Sep 10, 2007)

spilota_variegata said:


> Wow, hets for albino Darwins for $560 a male and $720 a female. Looks like the price has really dropped for hets



They dont stipulate what % they are.They could very well be 66%ers.


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

Click on the pics and the info will pop up


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## junglepython2 (Sep 10, 2007)

Ramsayi said:


> They dont stipulate what % they are.They could very well be 66%ers.


 
If they are advertising them as Hets they would have to be 100% Hets. Otherwise they would be advertised as possible hets.


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## da_donkey (Sep 10, 2007)

If it says hets then they mean hets, id be very pi$$edoff if they were talking about possible hets...

There is no reason why SR would even need to breed possible hets.


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## The-Guy (Sep 10, 2007)

not bad price on the albino olives....


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## wil (Sep 10, 2007)

its says if you breed them together you would get 1/4 albino offspring


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## wil (Sep 10, 2007)

what happens if you breed a 66% with 66%?


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## jay76 (Sep 10, 2007)

Dodie said:


> I think they are 66% het's, still cheap though



no I spoke to them on the phone they are 100% hets I just ordered a pair


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## redline (Sep 10, 2007)

I've ordered a pair of wheatbelt stimmies


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## cheyno (Sep 10, 2007)

Yes, if you bred 2 100% hets together you would get approximately 25% albino, 50% het, and 25% normal.


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## cheyno (Sep 10, 2007)

wil said:


> what happens if you breed a 66% with 66%?


 
Depend on whether they are actually het, or just normal. 66% het means that they are one of the 'normal' looking hatchies which would make up 75% of the clutch when 2 100% (definate) hets are bred together. So 66% means that they aren't yet proven to be het or normal.


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## The-Guy (Sep 10, 2007)

well how do they know that they are 100% het if they look normal then????


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

Yeah sorry about that. my bad, I misread the caption..


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## The-Guy (Sep 10, 2007)

I like the black blueys  expensive though


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

Cause they had albino parents, thus giving them the gene


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## The-Guy (Sep 10, 2007)

yeah, but two albino parents means 25% albino, 50% hets and 25% normal doesnt it, so how they know if they are hets? or is that only the figure if you breed two hets?


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## Dodie (Sep 10, 2007)

I thought those were the ratio's from 2 hets


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## Ranch Hand (Sep 10, 2007)

hi guys just to clear up any confusion that people may have with regards to the Het For albino Darwin carpet pythons advertised on our website they are 100% hets. Kane - Snake Ranch


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## Lozza (Sep 10, 2007)

The-Guy said:


> I like the black blueys  expensive though


 
I agree they are awesome - I wanted a few but couldnt really afford them with all the other things I have on order for this season. I'll have to get some next year


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## cockney red (Sep 10, 2007)

*Kane. Any idea when pics of diamonds will be up.*


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## ari (Sep 10, 2007)

Pity albino Darwins weren't on that list...


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## Ranch Hand (Sep 10, 2007)

cockney red said:


> *Kane. Any idea when pics of diamonds will be up.*


We are working on it now and should be up in the next couple of weeks.


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## cockney red (Sep 10, 2007)

*Cheers mate.*


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## Jungleland (Sep 10, 2007)

WOW!!!!

What a great promotion for sure.

Thanks for the link.

Joel


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## junglepython2 (Sep 10, 2007)

The-Guy said:


> yeah, but two albino parents means 25% albino, 50% hets and 25% normal doesnt it, so how they know if they are hets? or is that only the figure if you breed two hets?


 
Two albino parents will give 100% albino offspring

An albino x normal will give 100% Hets, which are the ones for sale

A Het x Het gives 25% albino 25% normal and 50% Hets. As the hets and normals all look the same they are grouped together, and a normal looking hatchy from that combination has a 66% of being a Het.


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## wil (Sep 10, 2007)

i wonder why there arent any het olives


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## Gecko :) (Sep 10, 2007)

Wow , great promotion!
I cant believe the price of the Albino Olives, you can get 2 for pretty much the price that 1 usually sells for!


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2007)

some pretty good prices.
not to surprised though i figured it was just a matter of time.


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## pugsly (Sep 10, 2007)

Boy oh Boy, there are going to be some PPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDD off breeders...

Some of those prices are amazing....


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## Jason (Sep 10, 2007)

my thought exactly pugs! some VERY upset keepers and breeders! what about those who payed 15K for an albino olive only a month or two ago, or those who payed upto and over 7K for a pair of hets.....not going to be very happy!
i think the two shockers were the hets and the albinos, evrything else seemed expected (from me) i new the tanimis would be cheep as chips. 
sand fire womas- isnt that a broad range? i heard that the rippon islands, boodaries etc are all from sandfire area. that would meen sandfire is aboutas specific as tanimi (for example)?


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## ihaveherps (Sep 10, 2007)

Theres an old saying " dont count your chickens before they hatch".... I dont know of too many ( actually Ive thought about it and I dont know of any ) breeders that would even consider taking deposits on animals that havent hatched, never less even been laid.... then again I only deal with people of substance, so that may explain it.


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## bouncn (Sep 10, 2007)

i just bought a WA woma and saved myself some money...

I have no problem depositing money for an unborn egg. I trust these guys know what they're doing and they're giving away good stock at good prices.

Good work Snake Ranch


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## Lozza (Sep 10, 2007)

plus, if for any reason they cannot supply the ordered animals, they refund your deposit so its not like you're losing anything (the non-refundable part is only for changing your mind)


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## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

Geeeeeeez some nice stuff at good prices!! :shock:

Love the look of those melanistic blueys.


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## hugsta (Sep 10, 2007)

junglepython2 said:


> Two albino parents will give 100% albino offspring
> 
> An albino x normal will give 100% Hets, which are the ones for sale
> 
> A Het x Het gives 25% albino 25% normal and 50% Hets. As the hets and normals all look the same they are grouped together, and a normal looking hatchy from that combination has a 66% of being a Het.


 
And also there is albino x 100% het which will give a clutch of 50/50 albino/100% het.

Cheers
Daz


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## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm really tempted to order one of those beautiful Tanami Woma's.


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## bouncn (Sep 10, 2007)

Miss B said:


> I'm really tempted to order one of those beautiful Tanami Woma's.



I came very close to ordering one as well as a black bluey.

So close that I was entering the amount into the computer to do a direct deposit...

THAT was a close one... :shock:


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

I was about to fill out the form for a Tanami too!!! then my partner glared me down... really hard... and i knew that was it for me... so i'm thinking of ways in which to do it sneakily... maybe if i hide them under my bed while he's home... then bring them out when he leaves... oh damnit there has to be some way!


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## bouncn (Sep 10, 2007)

well my GF doesn't know yet...

she'll find out in a couple of months. She doesn't like the snake room and never goes in there so I don't think she'll ever even know *tee hee*

PS dont worry about your partner, the devil on your shoulder speaks and you should listen you only live once! *tee hee*


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

Haha yeah where's the angel on your shoulder when you need it... probably at the pub p**sed off that the devil got to the shoulder first! I'm thinking of leaving pictures of the womas on the computer, and commenting how perdy they are... he thinks Womas are ugly (he's STRANGE i tell ya!). Yeah.. i'll make them grow on him... he'll have no choice then....


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## PilbaraPythons (Sep 10, 2007)

Jason
Sandfire womas are not the same locality as Rippon Island or Boodarie. Infact Boodarie is 320 km further south.

Cheers Dave


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## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

Haha Clairebear, that is so funny, I had the same problem!! Was trying to figure out how I could place my deposit without him knowing (or noticing the money missing from our account) :lol: My partner is not a huge fan of Woma's either. I'm still not sure whether to order one... a little voice in my head is going, 

"Doooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeet"

:lol:


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

Hey i know... i could dare you to order one and you could dare me... and then when they ask... we'll say we had to cause it's a dare... see? everybody wins!:lol:


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## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

Bahaha.

Let's play a game of Truth or Dare 

Ummmm, so, Clairebear, I _dare_ you to go order a nice new snakey from Snake Ranch while their big sale is on  :shock:


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## Clairebear (Sep 10, 2007)

Well i double dare you... that means you need to order two!


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## Miss B (Sep 10, 2007)

:shock:

Haha. Let's see how my will power holds up tomorrow


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## oniddog (Sep 11, 2007)

so tempting het alb darwin or a woma ?
already got a pair of hets , maybe another het female for a separate line of albs or a woma cos there sorta funny lookn, neva really like em b4 but there starting to grow on me !
like a wart only betta to look at in a wierd sorta way !
i dig the smooth golden head 

gf has no say , neva has neva will !
The O'dogg 
indepently owned & operated


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## tempest (Sep 11, 2007)

Ohhh how tempting!! Thinking about placing an order myself... hmmm...

Miss B, trust me, once you have the woma your partner will be besotted with it. I say just do it


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## bump73 (Sep 11, 2007)

WOW!! 

Looks like they're going to make a bit of money off the albino blueys....

Especially as they were wild caught for scientific purposes:lol::lol:

Yeah Right!!


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## the_brad (Sep 11, 2007)

$1920 for a pair of melanistic blueys!!!!!!!! ide ratther land mullets!


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## Saz (Sep 11, 2007)

That's $1920 for one Brad, not a pair.


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## BIG RYANO (Sep 11, 2007)

I just posted this on another thread, apart from the albinos and hets, most of those prices are around what they normally go for. I know a few Woma breeders with top shelf lines that sell for $1200 a pair for hatchies. Good to see the albinos and hets dropping, so everyone can enjoy them.


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## Colin (Sep 12, 2007)

Seeing the Snake Ranch is having its Huge Sale promotion I was just wondering if they are donating a RSP or albino olive for a competition on here to mark the occassion like Simon & Diane Stone from Southern Cross Reptiles do with their albinos? 

Anyone had any news of this? or am I just being hopeful and optimistic.? :lol: :lol:


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## Chimera (Sep 12, 2007)

Colin said:


> Seeing the Snake Ranch is having its Huge Sale promotion I was just wondering if they are donating a RSP or albino olive for a competition on here to mark the occassion like Simon & Diane Stone from Southern Cross Reptiles do with their albinos?
> 
> Anyone had any news of this? or am I just being hopeful and optimistic.? :lol: :lol:



Well I guess that will be up to them in that case. Perhaps they can get the patron banner as well 

Each to their own, I suppose there will be many more who will be criticising snake ranch over the next few months :?


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## Miss B (Sep 12, 2007)

awesome  I wanna win an albino olive from the snake ranch :lol:


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## Mrs I (Sep 12, 2007)

I guess Im a sceptic but I wouldnt pay for something that someone didnt even have yet!

No offence to anyone.


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## Colin (Sep 12, 2007)

Chimera said:


> Well I guess that will be up to them in that case. Perhaps they can get the patron banner as well
> 
> Each to their own, I suppose there will be many more who will be criticising snake ranch over the next few months :?




excuse me? but I don't think my post was criticising anything.  

And I believe Southern Cross Reptiles is patron here.
and with good reason with the constant generosity they have shown APS and it's members


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## bump73 (Sep 12, 2007)

I'll critisise them 

How is it that Kane who seems to be representing snake ranch on here has only a couple of posts Yet they are getting all this free publicity and hype generated??:?

Tried to find if they are sponsoring the site but too no avail....

I say support the sponsors of this site even if it means a bit more $$$..

Who's to say they are'nt trying to drive out the smaller breeders in order to get a monopoly on the market before bringing the prices up when the competition disappears...

Worked for bunnings, woolworths etc..


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## Magpie (Sep 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> I'll critisise them
> 
> How is it that Kane who seems to be representing snake ranch on here has only a couple of posts Yet they are getting all this free publicity and hype generated??:?
> 
> ...


 

Kane has only just joined SnakeRanch, hence the small number of posts.
You can't drive out hobby breeders. Hobby breeders will always have lower overheads than a business.


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## Kyro (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm really confused, why are people complaining about a company dropping their prices.That is what business is all about & if it forces others to lower their prices to match then that can only be a good thing for all of us.I also don't see why they should sponsor this site or give away a snake just because someone started a thread about them


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## URS (Sep 12, 2007)

G day,

Well I would like to Congratulate John and the Snake Ranch team from coming up with such a great idea that being the 20/20 Sale. 
Wish I had thought of that one!!

Reagrds Tim


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## Ranch Hand (Sep 12, 2007)

Colin, Sounds like a good idea about sponsership donation. Give me 24hrs to see what i can do and i will report


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## bouncn (Sep 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> I'll critisise them
> 
> How is it that Kane who seems to be representing snake ranch on here has only a couple of posts Yet they are getting all this free publicity and hype generated??:?
> 
> ...



you have got to be joking...

these guys are supervised by one of if not the most respected herpers in the country, supplying quality animals all housed safely and healthily to hobbyists to make these animals more accessible to the likes of you and I.

I suggest you go get your fillings put back in, take off your tin foil hat and quit with the conspiracy theories. These guys are doing a fine job why is everyone so pee'd off about this.

PS Kane and the other Snake Ranchers are good people. After the experiences I've had with reptile breeders (not all, but some) I am glad there are trustworthy people out there that aren't selling sick, injured or wild caught diseased animals to unsuspecting people...

//end rant


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## Fester (Sep 12, 2007)

Good one Bouncin ... well put


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## bump73 (Sep 12, 2007)

Fair enough....

I'll admit to being a bit jaded by these guys over the whole albino bluey thing, Wild caught for scientific reasons, then offspring are sold off at a massive profit. Not right no matter how you look at it
ben


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## hugsta (Sep 12, 2007)

Colin said:


> Seeing the Snake Ranch is having its Huge Sale promotion I was just wondering if they are donating a RSP or albino olive for a competition on here to mark the occassion like Simon & Diane Stone from Southern Cross Reptiles do with their albinos?
> 
> Anyone had any news of this? or am I just being hopeful and optimistic.? :lol: :lol:


 
They may not have donated anything to APS to generate more interest in this site, but I wouldn't say that they are not generous.

John did donate 2 pairs of womas and a roughy, which actually ended up being 2 roughies, to the Tim Nias benefit on another site. I didn't see Simon Stone donate to that cause like the many people that did.

I guess it is a matter of what is a personal priority to the one donating the prize.


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## Hickson (Sep 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> Fair enough....
> 
> I'll admit to being a bit jaded by these guys over the whole albino bluey thing, Wild caught for scientific reasons, then offspring are sold off at a massive profit. Not right no matter how you look at it
> ben



You appear to be under a slight misapprehension. The albino and melanistic blueys were not collected by the Snake Ranch for scientific purposes. They were not collected by the Snake Ranch at all, but by scientists some years ago under a scientific license for bona fide research. After the research was completed they were not released (possibly for good reason). They ended up at the Reptile Park and from there to the Snake Ranch.



Hix


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## fuegan13 (Sep 12, 2007)

what sort of licence does a business like snake ranch need in nsw?


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## Chimera (Sep 12, 2007)

Hix said:


> You appear to be under a slight misapprehension. The albino and melanistic blueys were not collected by the Snake Ranch for scientific purposes. They were not collected by the Snake Ranch at all, but by scientists some years ago under a scientific license for bona fide research. After the research was completed they were not released (possibly for good reason). They ended up at the Reptile Park and from there to the Snake Ranch.



You mean there's no big conspiracy?? :shock:

It's pretty funny how on one hand people will comment about how disappointing it would be to have wild albinos/colour morphs not making it into the hobby, but then look for reasons to tear down individuals who manage it.


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## bump73 (Sep 12, 2007)

Hix said:


> You appear to be under a slight misapprehension. The albino and melanistic blueys were not collected by the Snake Ranch for scientific purposes. They were not collected by the Snake Ranch at all, but by scientists some years ago under a scientific license for bona fide research. After the research was completed they were not released (possibly for good reason). They ended up at the Reptile Park and from there to the Snake Ranch.
> 
> 
> 
> Hix


 

Exactly what i said.... Caught for scientific reasons....Then sold at a massive price 

only difference is you included the middle man ( Reptile Park):lol:


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## Dodie (Sep 12, 2007)

You'd have to be pretty silly to sell them at a very low cost as these are rare. There's not many of them around and if person A sold them for $100 he then could sell them to person B for a much higher price seeing as noone else would be selling any


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## ihaveherps (Sep 12, 2007)

Um, for starters Hix, the story the Reptile Park spouted about the Albino Blueys for yrs was that they were called out for a relocation in a local suburban backyard, and Im pretty sure that relocating permits are quite different to scientific permits. And their story on the melanistics was that they were in someone elses hands then donated to the Park.


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## junglepython2 (Sep 12, 2007)

If they were sold for $2 each there still wouldn't be anymore of them then there is now. At least this way several people will buy them instead of one person buying the lot.

And if you look at what they have done with RSP prices, I don't think you can say they are all about making money.


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## wokka (Sep 12, 2007)

If you look at the balance sheet and profit and loss (which are both publcally available documents) i hardly think Snake Ranch is making a huge profit.


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## pugsly (Sep 12, 2007)

True Wokka, I dont think there is huge money when you look at the other costs involved.

I WOULD like to know what tax there is involved, and how a commercial breeding fascility is able to run when apparently its illegal to sell reptiles commercially in NSW....


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## Just_Joshin (Sep 12, 2007)

pugsly said:


> True Wokka, I dont think there is huge money when you look at the other costs involved.
> 
> I WOULD like to know what tax there is involved, and how a commercial breeding fascility is able to run when apparently its illegal to sell reptiles commercially in NSW....


As far as i know it's only illegal to commercially ADVERTISE reptiles for sale through a non-specific medium (i.e. It has to be advertised on a reptile forum or in a reptile magazine, you can't just have a shop front, stick posters up or put them in the paper). They get around this by not advertising their reptiles for sale anywhere but throught their own site.


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## Fester (Sep 12, 2007)

bump73 said:


> I say support the sponsors of this site even if it means a bit more $$$..


 
Oh gosh!! And I have bought from breeders from this site! And heaven forbid they were not sponsors! Competition is healthy.


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## alex_c (Sep 12, 2007)

pugsly said:


> True Wokka, I dont think there is huge money when you look at the other costs involved.
> 
> I WOULD like to know what tax there is involved, and how a commercial breeding fascility is able to run when apparently its illegal to sell reptiles commercially in NSW....


 i think they are like a club made up of private breeders so that may be how it works. and im pretty sure you can make up to $50k of income and claim it as a hobby


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## Fester (Sep 12, 2007)

womanator said:


> As far as i know it's only illegal to commercially ADVERTISE reptiles for sale through a non-specific medium (i.e. It has to be advertised on a reptile forum or in a reptile magazine, you can't just have a shop front, stick posters up or put them in the paper). They get around this by not advertising their reptiles for sale anywhere but throught their own site.


 
Read further down and that is exactly what it says.

http://www.snakeranch.com.au/index.cfm?action=aboutus


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## Just_Joshin (Sep 12, 2007)

alex_c said:


> i think they are like a club made up of private breeders so that may be how it works. and im pretty sure you can make up to $50k of income and claim it as a hobby


The 50K rule only applies in Queensland.......i don't think NSW has a limit


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## pugsly (Sep 12, 2007)

No there is no limit in NSW.

But there is NO WAY they can claim this is a hobby, they are run and are, carrying on a business. Therefore should be taxed accordingly. 

But lets step back into reality, the ATO catchin on the the reptile trade.. ? no..


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## Jungleland (Sep 12, 2007)

URS said:


> G day,
> 
> Well I would like to Congratulate John and the Snake Ranch team from coming up with such a great idea that being the 20/20 Sale.
> Wish I had thought of that one!!
> ...


 

Hey Tim Never to late you can still do it I'm sure lots of people won't mind lol.


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## Tim (Sep 12, 2007)

womanator said:


> The 50K rule only applies in Queensland.......i don't think NSW has a limit



Incoming boring technical post...

Income tax is a federal thing and there is no defined limit on income earned to be distinguished between a hobby and a business.

To be a "Business" in Australia you have to have numerous characteristics to be perceived as one, there is no hard and fast rule.

Taken from one of my Australian Taxation Law books, things that the courts look for include:

a) the extent to which the taxpayer's activity is characterised by a system and organisation
b) the scale on which the taxpayer conducts the activities
c) the extent to which the taxpayer's activities involved sustained, regular and frequent transactions
d) whether talent has been turned to account for profit
e) whether the taxpayer conducted the operations with a profit motive
f) the commercial character of the transactions themselves
g) characteristics or quantities of the propertly dealt in
h) inherent characteristics of the taxpayer

....sorry bout that - can't help but pounce on an accounting question, like to think not all of my study has gone to waste 

Now that all of that boring crap is out of the way - bloody great prices and if I had some money up my sleeve I'd be sure to jump on some of these deals.


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## pugsly (Sep 12, 2007)

SR satisfies all those requirements Tim..


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## Tim (Sep 12, 2007)

pugsly said:


> SR satisfies all those requirements Tim..



And what part of my post said they didn't? I was simply correcting that there is no income limit applicable.


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## scorps (Sep 12, 2007)

thank you so much for this snake ranch alot of breeders are going to be pretty annoyed but i hope it sets a new standard on the prices their pairs of womas and bhps for just over 1k its awesome


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## PilbaraPythons (Sep 12, 2007)

I think what john has done has been a great move for the punters out there. As far as big time breeders in competition, it will make a few reevaluate their prices, that’s for sure. With regard to us supplying reptiles (bred out side of W.A), we will be offering very similar prices on most species. 

Cheers Dave


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## pugsly (Sep 12, 2007)

Yes, I wasn't having a go at you.

Glad you pointed them out. SR is certainly not the ONLY people who fall under that category..


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## rexs1 (Sep 12, 2007)

John and the team at snake ranch have done a great job bringing roughies into the hobby. Without their input they would be never kept by anyone apart from zoos. Same goes for the blueys. I reckon the more species you can keep legally the better.Their prices are fair, and anyway it's free enterprise--"supply and demand."


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## da_donkey (Sep 12, 2007)

rexs1 said:


> John and the team at snake ranch have done a great job bringing roughies into the hobby. Without their input they would be never kept by anyone apart from zoos. Same goes for the blueys. I reckon the more species you can keep legally the better.Their prices are fair, and anyway it's free enterprise--"supply and demand."


 

Thank you rex, exactly right in my opinion.

Im not sure what everyone else is crying about.

donk


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## Lozza (Sep 12, 2007)

hugsta said:


> They may not have donated anything to APS to generate more interest in this site, but I wouldn't say that they are not generous.
> 
> John did donate 2 pairs of womas and a roughy, which actually ended up being 2 roughies, to the Tim Nias benefit on another site. I didn't see Simon Stone donate to that cause like the many people that did.
> 
> I guess it is a matter of what is a personal priority to the one donating the prize.


 
they also had a roughy and albino & hyper blue tongues as prizes at the frog & reptile show


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## Retic (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't really see the problem really, it isn't like those prices are going to have any overall effect on things. We have seen Womas and BHP's going for $500 on occassion for a year or so but it didn't influence other breeders at all. If a breeder has 20 snakes and he sells them for $200 but there are 100 buyers then the other 80 have to pay what other breeders choose to charge. 
Some prices like GTP's need to come down and others are fine where they are and in addition to that there are so many different lines of just about every snake nowadays that there is no set price for any particular species.
BHP's can go for anything from $500 to $2000 for hatchlings, GTP's from $4000 up, Jungles from $200 to $2000, it just depends what you are after and prepared to pay.


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## Colin (Sep 13, 2007)

What I find most confusing is since they (SR) obviously believe that reptiles are 'seriously overpriced' as the price drop for Darwin’s hets (for example) suggests why then haven’t they dropped the prices (to the same extent) of the other high priced species (albino olives & hets and RSP) which only they have the main monopoly on at this stage considering they didn’t have to fund the purchases of the founding stock in the first place? 

Also I bought some WA Sandfire stimsons and WA Broome stimsons last year from the Snake Ranch and paid less for them last year, WA sandfires $575pr (now $720pr) and WA Broome's $550pr (now $650pr) so cannot fathom why the albino Darwin hets 'crashed' in price but stimsons went up? 

So some animals have had ridiculously low prices (compared to the current market prices) put on them when others (which I would have assumed to have gone down or remained the same) have actually gone up? Seems theres more to these prices than meets the eye.


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## Aslan (Sep 13, 2007)

It is quite simple - they are not running a charity - they are running a business enterprise...

...the prices are fantastic, on many species MUCH cheaper than would have been expected - on others, really not that much different - but that's what promotions do. "Used cars from $2000" - only needs one to be at 2k but brings in a crowd...

...I am all for some healthy competition as far as prices go, and I think these prices make a lot of snakes far more accessible to the average punter - which is something I am of the strict belief that JW is very interested in achieving...

I think many breeders will be a little narky about it all, but as Boa has pointed out - there is a limited number of animals in this promotion - the rest will have to buy at the prices set by other breeders...


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## Colin (Sep 13, 2007)

Aslan said:


> that's what promotions do. "Used cars from $2000" - only needs one to be at 2k but brings in a crowd...
> 
> ...I am all for some healthy competition as far as prices go, and I think these prices make a lot of snakes far more accessible to the average punter



very fair comments and I agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about cheaper prices overall, I'm only saying it seems very strange (imo) that albino darwin hets were the species and mutation that were chosen for the dramatic price reduction instead of other species. 



Aslan said:


> but as Boa has pointed out - there is a limited number of animals in this promotion - the rest will have to buy at the prices set by other breeders...



Sure I agree totally. I'll continue to only purchase top quality animals (as I have alwayd tried to do) and prefer to pay a little more to get the quality, colour, pattern and line that I"m after for my breeding programs rather than average animals. 

Just to make something clear, at this stage I don't own any albino darwins or het albino darwins but will consider getting them in the future.


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## pugsly (Sep 13, 2007)

Seems like yesterday Darwin Hets went for $3000+ each.


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## nvenm8 (Sep 13, 2007)

For those that ordered the "wheatbelts" sorry for your loss! May I suggest a little research into what Wheatbelt stimsoni look like. 
You can read whatever you like into my post! I just suggest that maybe some enquiring to Wheatbelt owners or dealers in WA will save you a little embarrassment.


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## Colin (Sep 13, 2007)

pugsly said:


> Seems like yesterday Darwin Hets went for $3000+ each.





 pugs top quality animals will always go for a premium price (imo)

It's just a matter of 'you get what you pay for'.


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## viridis (Sep 13, 2007)

Hat's off to the ranch, It's a good idea what they are doing. People do not under stand how many het's and albino darwins will be produced this year.

12 months ago I said that I will have 100% het albino darwins for around $1000 each, and I got a few people having a whinge. I can tell you know that there will be thousands of 100% hets around this season, and paying more then $1000 each would be stupid., Who know's what the cross bred bits of crap will sell for?

I think that its good that prices for common herps are becoming cheaper. I know for one that I would pay the 4K asking price for the black blueys as at the end of the day where else can I get them from?????????????//

Things like those are just not available anywhere else.

Any clown, can go to Simon Stone or ten other breeders if they want albino darwins or hets.

The albino olives / RSP's( before this season), albino blueys, melanistic blueys, albino macs,melanistic darwins ect the list goes on, can only come from Snake Ranch.

The designer market is what is important for the future of this hobby and John and the SnakeRanch team are offering those to the general public, so we should all be grateful for the availability of these animals.

I for one could not careless how they obtained some of their stock, lets face it I would be the first to put my hand up for them, if they were offered to me.

Like colin said, you will only get what you pay for and quality always demands top dollars.

And Nvenm8,

mate you really need to get out more, if you delve a little deeper, you will infact find out that they are PURE WHEATBELTS, I know where they were collected from before they were confiscated, and then handed to SR.

If you wish to start nasty rumors, at least get the facts right. I suggest that yourself and Donna, have a think about things before you start telling Porky Pies, and save yourselves the risk of getting sued for defamation.

Cheers,

Nick Stock


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## Ranch Hand (Sep 13, 2007)

Nvenm8,

I don’t think you need to feel sorry for anyone – there is no deception nor conspiracy involved. This particular theory came to our attention last week from an anonymous emailer, who said that our animals are not from the Western Australian wheat-belt. That person wouldn’t respond to our request for more information. We did provide a response, nevertheless, which I can repeat for you below. There is no deception or misrepresentation on our part – we have no need to go that road.

The Snake Ranch ‘Wheat-belt’ Stimmos have generated a lot of interest in the “Wheat-belt’ morph. Photos of our animals, so labelled, appear to be a factor in the surge in interest, and we are unashamed in our claim that this is one of the most remarkable lines of Stimmos currently being bred. The founder animals were part of a confiscation in WA, of which a large number of Stimmos and other snakes were donated to a public zoo post-prosecution. Most of these reptiles were surplus to the needs of the zoo, and eventually were therefore ‘surplus-ed’ to other zoos, including the Australian Reptile Park. Two female Stimmos arrived at the Park gravid, and the resulting young were made available to the zoo community. All remaining unwanted hatchlings went to Snake Ranch. These are the snakes that are now producing their first clutches at Snake Ranch. So far as the history of the founder animals is concerned, the Western Australian authorities indicated (and confirmed for us recently, after above enquiry) that the source of the animals was “Bruce Rock”. Bruce Rock is smack in the middle of the WA wheat belt. 

Nevertheless, if you have information to suggest that these Stimmos are from another region, we’d love to hear from you. If that info can be confirmed, we’ll change the ‘Wheat-belt’ label to something more appropriate. Otherwise, we are not likely to doubt the information provided by the WA government.

Hope that clarifies the issue.

Kane


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## Hickson (Sep 13, 2007)

ihaveherps said:


> Um, for starters Hix, the story the Reptile Park spouted about the Albino Blueys for yrs was that they were called out for a relocation in a local suburban backyard, and Im pretty sure that relocating permits are quite different to scientific permits. And their story on the melanistics was that they were in someone elses hands then donated to the Park.



The melanistic bluey was collected under a scientific license, then later transfered to another scientist with a scientific license who kept it in an aviary in his backyard with other blueys and Eastern Water Dragons. I saw it there some years ago before it went to the ARP.

I had heard the albino bluey had arrived at the park in the same way, but if the Park or the Ranch is saying otherwise then fair enough. 

My post was to correct any misinformation that bump73 had, as his post implied the Ranch had collected under scientific license, with the agenda of commercial profit: 


bump73 said:


> "_Wild caught for scientific reasons, then offspring are sold off at a massive profit_. "





HIx


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## -Peter (Sep 13, 2007)

come on, lets face facts, Weigel chops the heads off then stands them in boiling water so they cant breed or am I getting confused with christmas trees. Well what ever he is trying to get money to buy all the christmas trees then sell them at highly inflated prices. You wont be able to find a radiata pine for the next 3 years. then he's going to release his new brown morph radiata. That will have them climbing over each other. So anyone who has them now will have only green ones unless they act to change it and get the jump on him.
Otherwise he will change the name of ARP to stand for All Radiata Pines.


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## pugsly (Sep 13, 2007)

Ahhhh huh....


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## Chimera (Sep 13, 2007)

nvenm8 said:


> For those that ordered the "wheatbelts" sorry for your loss! May I suggest a little research into what Wheatbelt stimsoni look like.
> You can read whatever you like into my post! I just suggest that maybe some enquiring to Wheatbelt owners or dealers in WA will save you a little embarrassment.



In all honesty I doubt that most people order Wheatbelts from SR are ordering them because they come from a specific region of WA. They are a spectacular example of Stimsoni that will become sought after regardless of provenance.


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## Lozza (Sep 13, 2007)

Chimera said:


> In all honesty I doubt that most people order Wheatbelts from SR are ordering them because they come from a specific region of WA. They are a spectacular example of Stimsoni that will become sought after regardless of provenance.


exactly - I ordered some because they look awesome, not because of where they came from


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## serenaphoenix (Sep 13, 2007)

Just for everyone's record - my avatar is one of snake ranch's divine albino olives - you should all buy one right now!!


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## ihaveherps (Sep 13, 2007)

Ranch Hand said:


> Nvenm8,
> 
> I don’t think you need to feel sorry for anyone – there is no deception nor conspiracy involved. This particular theory came to our attention last week from an anonymous emailer, who said that our animals are not from the Western Australian wheat-belt. That person wouldn’t respond to our request for more information. We did provide a response, nevertheless, which I can repeat for you below. There is no deception or misrepresentation on our part – we have no need to go that road.
> 
> ...



Now what and enjoyable piece of fiction that was to read! Seeing as this is the first clutches of WB's bred at the Ranch, I would suggest you go talk to Mr Bedford, whom last yr, after being in constant contact with him, told me that because the clutch they hartched last yr were so good looking in their opinion that they decided to hold back the whole clutch, which didnt worry me in the slightest at the time. But having a representative of the Ranch, go away only to come back and feed the public mis-information as a poor attempt of clarifying a situation, so much for the ranch showing transperancy on the subject.... more like sliding out a smoke machine. I will save the codswallop about the locale for another post.


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## pugsly (Sep 13, 2007)

mmmmmmm..

Plot thickens...

I guess this is why big breeders stay off these forums..


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## MrBredli (Sep 13, 2007)

... and avoid sponsoring them. 

:lol:


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## PilbaraPythons (Sep 13, 2007)

There is a scalation difference between the wheatbelt morphs and the Stimsons found further north. The wheatbelt Stimsons have less post prefrontals scales and usually lack the small single symmetrical post prefrontal scale found smack in the centre of the head of the prefrontal area. Pilbara specimens always have either one but nearly always a cluster of three in this area. Of the few Geraldton specimens that I have seen they also seem to have this scale. Although I have not had access to very many wheatbelt stimsons to observe as I would like to, already these scale differences appear consistent and in my view a very good indicator of deeming to be what isn’t from the wheat belt area. I haven’t seen Johns stimsons yet but do not believe for a second he would go down the path of intentionally misrepresenting a reptiles locality. 

Cheers Dave


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## nuthn2do (Sep 13, 2007)

Ahh well i guess there's only one person that can cut through all this crap and post some definitive answers.


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## Dodie (Sep 13, 2007)

Geebus?


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## jay76 (Sep 13, 2007)

I think some people are just not happy with the prices snake ranch is selling there snakes. They might have invested alot of money in the last few years, thinking they would get high returns, but snake ranch has spiced it up abit by offering nice snakes for under half, in some cases, what they were selling for last year. I think that is great..


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## bouncn (Sep 13, 2007)

Dodie said:


> Geebus?




SAVE ME GEEBUS!!

Zing to RanchHand.

I think this is a classic case of tall poppy syndrome.

what does it matter to you people anyway?

I'm not looking at this thread anymore I swear!


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## scout (Sep 14, 2007)

Yes good points. Its amazes me how people look for the negatives in all things. If I was a breeder on a big scale like snake ranch, I certainly would not subscribe or donate to people who slam them for offering specials. The peope who have decided to take their offer have also taken a risk in purchasing. The market prices for the new season have not yet been decided, for example, a pair of NT BHP are offered for 1300, the market may be flooded and the going price may drop to 800 a pair, on the other hand they may be scarce, and market may be up around the 2500 mark. In this case snake ranch could miss out on a higher market. I also get annoyed about people who defame people on HEARSAY, I think everyone in "primary school" got to play chinese whispers and saw the outcomes. I suggest to these people act like adults and do your research, dont rely on hearsay makes you look very silly*(for lack of a better word) when the truth comes out. I personally have taken up the offer, the fact that its not due til the new year gives me time to do more research(as its a new breed to me) and be totally prepared. Im a hugh believer in being WELL informed. It also gives me the opportunity to come up with the money to get the special 20% off. I may not have had the money if i had to purchase it on delivery, especially around xmas. So thank you snake ranch for making it easier and cheaper for me.


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## nvenm8 (Sep 14, 2007)

Ranch Hand said:


> Hope that clarifies the issue.


Certainly does! Until recently when there was an attempt to draw me into some bizarre fight that is going. I had no idea of the story behind these stimsoni? I made a point of finding out the true story behind them. 
At no stage have I questioned their quality! they are very nice. What I was more concerned about is the fact that they were held in questionable circumstances and the ID has been made on hear say! Now before that is misinterpreted? Lets look at it this way! lets say a pair of woma pythons are confiscated because they were illegally collected from the wild and they are identified as lets say Pilbara locale by CALM? They have been in the collection for an indeterminable amount of time and the former owner could have bred locality conflicting  specimens in that time making the confiscated snakes questionable for a 100% ID. Yes this could happen in any collection, but if they are from illegal gains then you could never be sure as to the practices of that individual. They are prepared to steal from the wild what else are they prepared to do?
So my only concern is once they have been obtained by ill gotten means then how can they ever (and certainly CALM) be ID as being 100% anything?


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## VARINIDAE (Sep 14, 2007)

*womas*

the prices of snakes are increasing while the price of lizards are decreasing


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## pugsly (Sep 14, 2007)

mmmm...

no...


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## bouncn (Sep 14, 2007)

VARINIDAE said:


> the prices of snakes are increasing while the price of lizards are decreasing





my lizards will be worthless soon :shock:


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## nuthn2do (Sep 14, 2007)

It's beer and doritos, forget the popcorn


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## Hetty (Sep 14, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> It's beer and doritos, forget the popcorn



:lol:


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## zulu (Sep 14, 2007)

*re Snake*

Good promotion i reckon,they breed some types of critters that are available no where else,as for tax well i think they state on the SR site that prices are inclusive of GST,what more do they have ta do,regurgitate their last meal or something. 
As for the the fact that they can have a website and sell within NSW without a dealers permitt,they are a society now and others could do it,ive thought of it myself,what else can they do in NSW,to carry out an honest undertaking in the herp buisness here you have to be very creative LOL.good luck to them,they arnt robbing banks or turning communist or some thing,just trying to make a living.


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## SlothHead (Sep 14, 2007)

Zulu, whats wrong with being a communist.....just got this little red book in the mail and thought it was the next big thing... damn, i have been shocked again.


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## zulu (Sep 14, 2007)

*re Snake*

Yeh i suppose theres nothing shocking about being a commo,it may even be to great benefit slothy,espescially if one is planning on having a political carreer or even a life in communist china.Takes the fun out of elections,you can vote for me or you can vote for me instead but make ya mind up quick or we send you to labour camp to get your mind right.


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## SlothHead (Sep 14, 2007)

See... there are positives, at least you know that when you vote you are voting for the "right" party....


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## zulu (Sep 14, 2007)

*re Snake*

Might is right slothy,i want a job at hurstville in the NPWS or climate change whatever they are this week,so i can protect my own job by sticking me head up me own bum,sorry if i sound a litter bitter but they have been running us around the block without water for years,ime dryed up LOLz Mutiny at MTT Druitt .


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## FAY (Sep 19, 2007)

I couldn't care less where those wheat belt stimmis come from...they are just spectacular.....!!


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