# Ricky the Lacy



## mysnakesau (Sep 6, 2011)

Instead of hijacking everyone else's threads I thought I should start a new one. I've called him/her Ricky since she is from Richardsons Crossing, Hat Head National Park.

You know about my dear little monitor I rescued off the road....














This morning I had to change a blown light and replaced his breeders choice bedding with coco-peat. This morning I was happy to see that he responded when he heard me opening his door. Up to now he hasn't moved but this morning, while he didn't move, he opened his eyes and watched while I changed the bulb. He struggled a bit when I went to pick him up and he stumbled onto the mat so I then just lifted the mat and moved him out while I fixed things up and lifted the mat back. He even lifted his head up - was a struggle but he did it  so I am getting my hopes up now that he is recovering well.


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## SamNabz (Sep 6, 2011)

Well done Kathy. I'm glad you took people's advice and adjusted tje living arrangements as most people would have shrugged any helpful info. off thinking they knew it all.

The set up looks better and kudos for adding multiple hides and the blanket for more security/cover.

Good to hear s/he is starting to become more alert as s/he should be. All the best and keep us updated.


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## daveandem2011 (Sep 6, 2011)

Well done mate,i bet it made you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to see a responce from your new friend,it's good to know that all your TLC is starting to pay off. I think your a bloody champion for giving this little fella a second chance,good on you mate!!!!!


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 6, 2011)

Any chance of X-rays, Kathy? 

Goodluck in any case!


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## mysnakesau (Sep 6, 2011)

Thank you Sam and Dave  . Yes I couldn't wipe the smile off when he lifted his head. I am not afraid to ask for help and still ask questions I think I know the answers to. I can't shrug off advice. What's the point asking if one doesn't want to accept it. What ever is in Ricky's best interest is what goes. I still haven't seen him go to his water so I need to get the humidity up now to stop him dehydrating. I did mist him yesterday but he didn't like it  so I wonder if I should do it anyway, or just leave him alone. He doesn't want me bothering him.

I_V - I haven't taken Ricky to the vet as yet. I have an experienced friend near me who said to wait, and he will come and check him out in a few days. If he says to take him to the vet I will, but for now it was more important to let Ricky stay put in his warmth. And that suited me because I didn't want to vet telling me I have to hand him over and I'd never hear anything more. With support from here I have done what he needs and I can release him back exactly where he came from, just further down the track away from the main road. The NP is riddled with lacies  I was back out there two days ago and saw the tiniest lacy I'd seen yet. But he took off too quickly for me to be able to get my camera up.


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## Serpentess (Sep 6, 2011)

Hey Kathy,

So glad to hear that there has been some (if little) improvement on this little fella. 

In regards to misting: I notice that you now have him on what looks to be Kitty's Crumble, or coco/coir peat. If this wasn't dried out prior, you will notice that after a while the air in the enclosure will become humid. This stuff holds a bit of moisture in its packaging and if placed directly into the enclosure it will bump up the humidity for a day or two. When it starts to dry up you can just mist the coir peat directly and the the same process will occur. When it dries up, it gets very dry, so I give it a light misting every few days to ensure that the air doesn't get too dry in there.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 6, 2011)

The things that come immediately to mind are brain injury, skull fracture or a broken jaw and the fact that it's laying in full view without movement (or, I'm assuming, thermoregulating) suggest brain injury.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 7, 2011)

Chantelle its coco-peat. Ricky's tank is nice and foggy today so hopefully that will help him not dehydrate. Thanks for the tips about spraying the peat. 

He opens his eyes every time he hears the keys on his door rattle now. ANd he is always in a different spot, now, when I see him. Yesterday he even managed to get his head up and hold it there, still, for a while before he decided to lay down again. He seemed to have some control when laying his head back down.

I_V: I can tell for sure that his jaw is not broken. I held him and got my hubby to gently pry his mouth open with a paddlepop stick. Even his gum where the bleeding was coming from is looking clean. But what would you do for a skull fracture? Vet can tell me that when we visit in another couple days and I will take him back for an all clear check up before I let him go. As advised, I held off moving him too much while he was so traumatised. It was best for him to be calm and under the hot light to keep his immune system strong and to stop him going into shock. But now he is starting to show improvement I feel more confident in moving him without hurting him any more than he already was.


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## Kimberlyann (Sep 7, 2011)

Sorry i totally missed out on what happened to him?


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## mysnakesau (Sep 7, 2011)

Kimberlyann said:


> Sorry i totally missed out on what happened to him?



I found him on the road, obviously been clipped by a car. He was bleeding from the mouth, couldn't run away and couldn't hold his head up. When I got him home I put him straight into an enclosure where he has spent the last few days now, curled up in a ball, like a cute puppy. With the support of a few good people here, I needed to make some changes to his enclosure - remove breeders choice bedding and replace with a damp, soil type bedding, more hides, keeping his temperatures up - 50c - and just leaving him alone. I started to think he may have sustained brain damage because he was very irresponsive of my movement around or within his tank. But, in the last two days he has been opening his eyes when he hears me open his door. That is a good sign that he is slowly but surely recovering


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 7, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> I_V: I can tell for sure that his jaw is not broken. I held him and got my hubby to gently pry his mouth open with a paddlepop stick. Even his gum where the bleeding was coming from is looking clean. But what would you do for a skull fracture? Vet can tell me that when we visit in another couple days and I will take him back for an all clear check up before I let him go. As advised, I held off moving him too much while he was so traumatised. It was best for him to be calm and under the hot light to keep his immune system strong and to stop him going into shock. But now he is starting to show improvement I feel more confident in moving him without hurting him any more than he already was.



I've not had to rehab a Lacie, so far, but I've had a few Bluetongues and Elapids (Browns and RBB's) wth skull fractures(along with assorted other injuries) and it was decided, after consultation with a vet, that euthing was the best option in all cases, unfortunately, as all were deemed not releaseable. 
Here's hoping it's only a minor injury and the Lacie makes a full recovery, but I would be a bit concerned with it's lack of defensive behaviour. I have it on good authority that they can and will self medicate, however, so stay positive!


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## mysnakesau (Sep 7, 2011)

imported_Varanus said:


> ...... but I would be a bit concerned with it's lack of defensive behaviour. I have it on good authority that they can and will self medicate, however, so stay positive!



Haha! When he's ready to chew my arm off will be the day he goes home  I've been talking with a couple of ppl who keep lacies and have done for years. They consider these guys bullet proof. I had a bigger fella last year with an open gash on his back. Came to me very sad sack, I laid him on my kitchen bench to flush his wound. Popped him into an enclosure on heat, next morning he was on his feet showing me his defence - throat puffed out, hissing loud and lunged at the door. PM'd my friend HELP - let him go. He is fine. So had to cool him back down so he wasn't so active, wrapped him up in blanket and took him back where his rescuer got him from. Put him on a tree, he was happy chappy, stayed put for a few moments and then took off up the tree like lightning.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 7, 2011)

Here's a relocation from last year. He was a real handful, probably because he'd been chased by a Jack Russell, poked at with a plastic rake and hosed for 15 minutes prior to our arrival. Our head relocator at the time decided to tie him with electrical tape for transport (rather than bagging) and he subsequently escaped in the car while driving to the release site! A fun day had by all!!


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## Renenet (Sep 7, 2011)

Thanks for keeping us updated on this guy, Kathy. I really hope he recovers.



imported_Varanus said:


> he subsequently escaped in the car while driving to the release site! A fun day had by all!!



Ha ha. That reminds me of when I was doing rescues for WIRES and I had a ringtail possum escape in the car. What looked so cute was suddenly all claws and muscles and seemed to be everywhere at once.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 8, 2011)

My very first call-out client escaped in my car. I was called to the local ambo station to get a bearded dragon off the window flyscreen but instead of finding a beardy I was confronted with a decent sized lacy. All I had in the car was a styrofoam box but he flipped the lid off as quick as I secured it. But we managed to tolerate each other until we got to safety and off he went.

I had a grave fear of lizards for most of my life until about 4yrs ago. I did volunteer work with local wildlife park, in their reptile section to learn about their behaviours. Now, my main call outs are either the goannas or red bellies. The goannas give my bravery a good run thats for sure.


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## crocdoc (Sep 8, 2011)

You're doing a good thing, Kathy. Keep us updated on his/her progress!


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## mysnakesau (Sep 9, 2011)

Ricky is showing improvement every day now  Today I went to check on him and reached in to touch him, and he nearly made me crap my pants. He swung around so fast I whacked my hand on his glass door to get it out his tank before he could bite me  He can lift his head up stronger - still a bit shakey but he is holding his head straight now, not lop sided like he was. Still no tongue flicking but he's doing well


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## thomasbecker (Sep 9, 2011)

Must be a great feeling helping out the injured wildlife. It sure was a great feeling for me when I saved the local ring-tailed possum from dehydration last summer. 

Hope he turns out great and will be a happy release for him.


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## andysnakes (Sep 9, 2011)

im sorry but i dont see how misting its cage is going to rehydrate it.... unless you are spraying the water down its throat all you are doing is wetting the lizard. sorry but it dosn't make any sense to me


mysnakesau said:


> Chantelle its coco-peat. Ricky's tank is nice and foggy today so hopefully that will help him not dehydrate. Thanks for the tips about spraying the peat.
> 
> He opens his eyes every time he hears the keys on his door rattle now. ANd he is always in a different spot, now, when I see him. Yesterday he even managed to get his head up and hold it there, still, for a while before he decided to lay down again. He seemed to have some control when laying his head back down.
> 
> I_V: I can tell for sure that his jaw is not broken. I held him and got my hubby to gently pry his mouth open with a paddlepop stick. Even his gum where the bleeding was coming from is looking clean. But what would you do for a skull fracture? Vet can tell me that when we visit in another couple days and I will take him back for an all clear check up before I let him go. As advised, I held off moving him too much while he was so traumatised. It was best for him to be calm and under the hot light to keep his immune system strong and to stop him going into shock. But now he is starting to show improvement I feel more confident in moving him without hurting him any more than he already was.



just read your last post... looks like you have done well.... rehydrated and all


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## mysnakesau (Sep 9, 2011)

I read it in a book and on a care sheet that when they are ill they tend to not move. So to help prevent dehydration you can rise the humidity levels. Something is working, anyway, because he is now showing improvement every day.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 9, 2011)

Great stuff, Kathy,

Any chance of progress and, hopefully, eventual release pics? It'd be nice to have a record for youself, I'd imagine. It's certainly a handsome little animal.


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## andysnakes (Sep 9, 2011)

like i said at the bottom of my last post...... it looks like you have done well


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## crocdoc (Sep 10, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> The goannas give my bravery a good run thats for sure.


As they should! It's great that you lost your fear, for fear causes accidents. Caution, though, is healthy.


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## fisherjayse (Sep 10, 2011)

A medical explanation to the effects of increasing humidity. The human body loses 800ml to a litre a day through breathing. The heated air we breathe out contains moisture. 
While you may think it is insignificant, but breathing in air with a high humidity will get absorbed through the thing lung walls. These same lungs allow gas exchange, so it is easy to visualise they allow moisture exchange as well.
In the case of an unwell reptile, the moisture absorbed through the lungs may make all the difference.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for that Fisher. I didn't really know how it worked. This explains it well. Thank you!


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## Renenet (Sep 10, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> He swung around so fast I whacked my hand on his glass door to get it out his tank before he could bite me  He can lift his head up stronger - still a bit shakey but he is holding his head straight now, not lop sided like he was. Still no tongue flicking but he's doing well



Wow, that sounds a lot better than he was. It's a shame you can't explain to him that you're helping and don't want to hurt him.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 20, 2011)

Ricky is still coming forward.  I did take photos but they're crap so I'll try again later but checked in on him today to find him laying there with his head up. Shakey and slight lean still but he is starting to use his legs again and was even up on his feet and followed me with his eyes and turned round so he could see me, as I opened the far door of his tank. I wasn't game to open the one near him incase he tried to bolt out. 3 days ago I put a pinky rat in there with him, today its gone.  Will get some new photos up shortly when I get some decent ones.


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## Karly (Sep 20, 2011)

Very exciting news Kathy you must be so happy!


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## Serpentess (Sep 20, 2011)

Very nice. So happy to hear about his slow but sure improvement. What a lucky little lacie.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 20, 2011)

Well done Kathy, hope he continues to improve for you!

Keep us updated, please.


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## crocdoc (Sep 22, 2011)

excellent news!


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## mysnakesau (Sep 27, 2011)

His progress has been slow but I am not so sure, if slow is anything to worry about. These aren't my best photos - I've been warey of him, having his door open to snap the photos. But while I was happy to see his head up off the ground the day other day, I haven't seen him lift his head since, and he still has a lean to one side. And I have noticed that he is slower at opening his left eye. I can wave my hand past the left side of his face and he doesn't respond very fast. His eye opens eventually, but if he happens to be positioned so his right side is facing the door, he knows I am there before I make a noise. He is alert and watches my every move, even trying giving me a tail whip.

I don't care how long it takes. He is here to stay for as long as it takes, but how long would you give him, before you can decide that he isn't going to improve any further? He has eaten another pinky rat, but there is still one left rotting in his cage - YUCK! :lol:


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## crocdoc (Sep 27, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> He is here to stay for as long as it takes, but how long would you give him, before you can decide that he isn't going to improve any further?


That's a good question but I'm afraid I can't answer that. I suppose if there were no change for a few months I'd assume he's not going to improve further. It's so good of you to look after him/her, though, the poor little tyke!


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## vampstorso (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm far from an expert,
but I'd say until I could see the animal was deteriorating and hence suffering...I'd keep trying my best. I know he's recovering slowly, but like crocdoc said; as long as he is showing improvement I'd keep him.
Since it likely is neurological, he probably will need quite some time, even if he is going to pull through.

slightly off topic and clearly different; but my uncle was in a car crash, completely paralyzed from brain injury...one day, out of no where, he just got up and started walking (his personality remained changed from the damage though).
So hopefully he has a similar lucky fate!


Good on you too Kathy, no doubt he's appreciating the warm, food, and peace and quiet!


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## kawasakirider (Sep 27, 2011)

Cool story, vamps.

If he doesn't improve enough to make it in the wild, but he's in good enough condition to remain captive, will you keep him? I think it's great what you're doing.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks guys. I have no intentions of giving up on this fella. Just looking for reassurance that I am not holding him in cruel suffering. He might be only taking tiny steps forward, but he has not stepped backwards so he can stay here as long as he wants.

CDB what a lovely story. That is amazing and good to hear your Uncle recovered like that. You've just renewed my confidence that Ricky is no where near game over.

Kawasakirider should that end up being the case yes I will keep him. Not sure my husband would be impressed but he won't say much until I have a dog-sized dinosaur eating us out of house and home. Right now he thinks he is cute  When he smiles I know I'm off the hook and Ricky can stay


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## Serpentess (Sep 28, 2011)

mysnakesau said:


> Thanks guys. I have no intentions of giving up on this fella. Just looking for reassurance that I am not holding him in cruel suffering. He might be only taking tiny steps forward, but he has not stepped backwards so he can stay here as long as he wants.
> 
> CDB what a lovely story. That is amazing and good to hear your Uncle recovered like that. You've just renewed my confidence that Ricky is no where near game over.
> 
> Kawasakirider should that end up being the case yes I will keep him. Not sure my husband would be impressed but he won't say much until I have a dog-sized dinosaur eating us out of house and home. Right now he thinks he is cute  When he smiles I know I'm off the hook and Ricky can stay


Good on you for keeping up the hope for him. 

I'm just interested in how you would go about keeping him if he were not to make a full recovery. I haven't heard many stories of this happening with private owners, just with Zoos, etc. so I'm just interested in what sort of process you'd have to go through.


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## mysnakesau (Sep 28, 2011)

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it Chantelle. But I am confident he will be going home, back to where he belongs. I just went out and checked on him. When I opened the door, his head came up off the ground and he gave his tail a bit of a fling,  probably to let me know he's ready to defend himself if I pose a threat to him. But I didn't harass him. I am all too aware of what I am dealing with so have no intentions of getting into an argument with him.

He finally ate his rats - yuck - I don't know how they can do that, then he must wash his mouth out in his water which ends up full of maggots that had already started on the pinkies. But I guess that is how he likes them.














PS, see the white thing in the corner of his enclosure, sitting on that black pot? That is a thermometer/hygrometer I bought off Ebay. I paid $9 for two of them. They don't work. The needle on that has not moved since the day I got it.


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## Serpentess (Sep 28, 2011)

Wonderful that he still has his fighting spirit. Such a beautiful little lacey, and once again you're a wonderful person to putting so much effort into his recovery.


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## moosenoose (Sep 28, 2011)

Looks like a beautiful monitor. Good job! I hope it works out well for you both.


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## imported_Varanus (Sep 28, 2011)

chantelle_savage said:


> Good on you for keeping up the hope for him.
> 
> I'm just interested in how you would go about keeping him if he were not to make a full recovery. I haven't heard many stories of this happening with private owners, just with Zoos, etc. so I'm just interested in what sort of process you'd have to go through.



If release wasn't an option, he'd most likely go in a "ballot" of suitably licenced keepers and hopefully Kathy would end up the new owner. That's been my experience anyway with my Scrubbie.

Good luck Kathy, he's certainly a little cracker!


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## Renenet (Sep 28, 2011)

Great news, he's looking so much better now.


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## edstar (Sep 28, 2011)

your doing such a great job.. keep it up


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## Karly (Sep 29, 2011)

Kathy has he done a poo yet? I would think that "good" poos could be an indicator of how his internals are functioning?


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## mysnakesau (Oct 3, 2011)

YEAHHHH !!!! Went in to give him a feed and saw him sitting with his head up so ran back to the house for the camera. Look at my young fella  He is showing great improvement every week. He can get his head up without shaking now, except when he moves fast, then he needs to steady himself. He lunged at me, hitting the glass  and gave himself a bit of a shake but the head did not go down. And his right side (sorry I have said left previous, got my left and right mixed up. Definitely the other left) is looking almost as strong as the other side.

I still have not seen him flicking his tongue, but that's not say he doesn't. He is probably more warey of me than wanting to show any curiosity, and I can't see or smell any crap. Can't say I've taken that much notice and I am not about to go digging in a wild lacy's tank looking for poop. Just popped another mouse in there. No doubt he'll leave it a few days before he eats it - lacies are disgusting :lol: Karly I am not exactly sure what a healthy poop looks like for a lacy, considering what they eat, but I'll even take a picture of that when I find one 

I only dared a couple of photos opening his door, he is starting to show is attitude, so most are through the glass.






Watching me from his injured side..





He looked like he was gonna have a crack when I reached in so I dropped the mouse and left it there.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 3, 2011)

Bit of a concern that you haven't seen the tongue. Defensive lacies typically stick their tongue out as far as it will go and flick it around the side of their jaw and then withdraw it. I would have expected that from this guy, since he is lunging forward.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 3, 2011)

So I wonder why he isn't flicking his tongue. Hope he still has one. I don't remember leaving any parts behind on the road. I wouldn't be able to tell just by looking into his mouth eh?


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## serpenttongue (Oct 3, 2011)

Well if you ever catch him feeding then you should catch a glimpse of it's tongue. They always flick it out after a feed. Maybe he bit it off when hit by the car and it was swallowed?? Unlikely, though.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 3, 2011)

I was hoping to dangle the mouse in front of him for a bit, to see how he reacted. He did turn his head towards it but water from the defrosted mouse dripped on his back. It startled him and I dropped it at his feet. He didn't chase to eat it so I left him alone before I upset him too much.


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## Fantazmic (Oct 3, 2011)

wonderful news........so lovely to read this thread

I would have thought Ricky would need his tongue to swallow or is that a mammal thing ?

Trouble is...now he has attitude you're going to have fun trying to catch him to try and see his tongue !!


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## mysnakesau (Oct 3, 2011)

I am not sure I wouldn't anyway. Their tongue lives in a little pocket (sorry, not up on terminology). They have forked tongues and when they flick it out it comes back in to the jacobs organ - assists with their sense of smell. You'd think he wouldn't be eating but he is.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 3, 2011)

Fantazmic said:


> I would have thought Ricky would need his tongue to swallow or is that a mammal thing ?



It's a mammal thing, more than a monitor thing. I think some lizards such as blue tongues will use the tongue to help get food down, but monitors grab the food in their mouth and then throw it back to swallow it. No tongue involved.



mysnakesau said:


> . Their tongue lives in a little pocket (sorry, not up on terminology). They have forked tongues and when they flick it out it comes back in to the jacobs organ - assists with their sense of smell. You'd think he wouldn't be eating but he is.



Personally, I think their sense of smell is so acute that the tongue could probably pick up scents with just the very tips of the tongue emerging ever-so slightly from the mouth.


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## Fantazmic (Oct 3, 2011)

when you think about it tongue flicking is neurological...maybe he is still sore or there is stil some swelling to go down that is effecting him using his tongue...still you will know soon enough !!

Please keep letting us all know how he is getting on...

and we will keep sending our good wishes

Kind Regards

Elizabeth


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## mysnakesau (Oct 3, 2011)

Fantazmic said:


> ........maybe he is still sore or there is stil some swelling to go down that is effecting him using his tongue...still you will know soon enough !!.....



Definitely still room for more improvement so that is possible. He still has a slight lean-to and shows one one side of him to be less alert than the other. 
His good side





The injured side..





When Jamie sussed him out he said he saw his tongue flick out. I haven't seen it, unless, as Serpenttongue as suggested, he's only just poking the tip out and I am missing it. Either way, lets see where he's up to this time next week


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## DanNG (Oct 3, 2011)

Brilliant work Kathy, hope he keeps getting stronger and stronger


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## Renenet (Oct 3, 2011)

That looks like a huge improvement to my admittedly inexpert eyes. Go Ricky!


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## crocdoc (Oct 4, 2011)

If he isn't sticking his tongue out, look for gular pumping - his throat going up and down. You'll usually have to wait until he's stopped puffing it out, as in the photos, for that's a defensive thing. They can smell with their nostrils as well as their tongue/Jacobson's organ. My monitors tend to use their nostrils to check me out when I open the enclosure but will use their tongue if there's something of particular interest, like food. 

I know all of this was covered much earlier, but what's the surface temperature of his basking site?



mysnakesau said:


> No doubt he'll leave it a few days before he eats it - lacies are disgusting :lol:


That's definitely not all lace monitors - yours is still struggling with the concept of eating in captivity, or because of his injuries. Mine would never leave food long enough for it to rot - in fact, if I throw the food in at them it will not even reach the floor of the enclosure because they'll catch it mid-air.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 4, 2011)

His basking site directly under the light gets up to bit over 50c. Just off the light is 40+. I turn his light off at night, but he has a heatcord under that mat going 24/7.

Yeah I figured the captive feeding would be an issue with him, and I haven't seen him eat, only that the rodents disappear after a couple days.


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## edstar (Oct 4, 2011)

Keep up the good work


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## Fantazmic (Oct 6, 2011)

That's definitely not all lace monitors - yours is still struggling with the concept of eating in captivity, or because of his injuries. Mine would never leave food long enough for it to rot - in fact, if I throw the food in at them it will not even reach the floor of the enclosure because they'll catch it mid-air. 

I wonder if it is to do with the smell...if the food is rotting then it stinks...whereas when it is fresh he might not smell it so much if his tongue isnt working so well

How is he today ?


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## mysnakesau (Oct 7, 2011)

He is doing well Fantamic  He doesn't move around much but while I see a new milestone every week or so, he is gonna stay there till I see him climbing the walls wanting to get out.

With the food, I wonder if it would make a difference if I chopped a mouse up (yum, biology was my favourite subject at school ) so then the guts would be nice an aromatic. And he is only young, so I don't how young an age they would start chasing live food or whether they just live off what they find laying around. HE is so awesome, but I am becoming more and more warey of him now. Not scared but warey because he has already shown me that his mouth is ready to defend - hasn't got me, but he lunged at me, hitting the closed, glass door.

Once upon time I was horrified of lizards, now I am nursing a lace monitor back to health. Just education on their behaviour, and how they live, what they eat, and getting hands on experience through volunteer work at my local wildlife park a couple years back, has cured me of the fear I once had. Was always happy to look but hated them coming near me. I use to attempt to chase the bearded dragons off the road but they looked dangerously spikey and when they ran in my direction I'd scream like a girl, dancing all over the place trying get out of their way. Not anymore, I pick them up now  I use to sit on the tables at the parks where the goannas roam. Now I'm sitting on the grass waiting for them come up close now so I can take their photos. I know if I keep still and quiet they will wander past and not worry about me.


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## Fantazmic (Oct 11, 2011)

So another 4 days have past......does he seem any different ?


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## mysnakesau (Oct 11, 2011)

He is starting to move around more now. I haven't seen him moving, but when I go and check on him he is never in the same spot. Sometimes inside his hide, next time under his light, maybe off to the side, but its good to see he isn't where I saw him last.  Still not climbing the walls yet, though, but I haven't seen him take any steps backwards. Thanks for asking


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## mysnakesau (Oct 15, 2011)

His head comes up nice and strong now, and on his feet, not just laying down. He isn't far off being able to go home . 

How will I know when he is ready to go? I am not trying to get rid of him. I don't want to release him too soon. Even though he is looking strong, and moving about when I am not looking, he isn't climbing the walls trying to get out. But I am not sure if he'll do that, anyway. When I tap on the glass his responds almost instantly. His head comes up and his eyes don't leave me.

I am heading down town to get him some roo meat. He might like a nice, stinky feed of kangaroo? If not, my dog will.











...an hour later - I am back with some roo steaks. He didn't want to know about it off my tongs so I found a clean slab of slate to lay some pieces there for him. When I first reached in I thought he was going to take it. His nose followed it for a few seconds but then he puffed his throat up so I decided it was time to leave him be.  I am so thrilled with his progress. Its going to be sad to see him go. ITs going to be an emotional moment to watch him run off.


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## crocdoc (Oct 15, 2011)

My advice is to leave the roo steak for your dog. Monitors do better on small whole animals, for they have the full complement of calcium, vitamins, roughage etc, whereas plain meat is just protein and consequently a 'filler'. There's a thread on this forum somewhere (search for RSPcrazy's posts) showing what happens when a monitor is fed meat rather than animals. RSPcrazy got a young lacie from someone else that had been raising it on chicken breast and it ended up with severe MBD. 

I realise this feed of roo steak is probably a one-off, but I think for a recovering rescue that every meal should count, so you may as well make each one a fully nutritious one.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 15, 2011)

Ok, I will do that. I didn't think of that. Was tryin something that smells strongly to encourage his feed response. He didn't eat the mouse I left for him. It went flat so I chucked it. Maybe I should chop it up to get the smell happening for him? He ate the pinky rats whole. I am going to Port tomorrow so will pick up some pinky rats from the pet store for him, and see if I can find him some quail, too. I know its a lot of expense for a temporary guest but I can't help it. I gotta look after him properly. 

Thank you David. Your input in always appreciated. I didn't see that thread of RSPCrazy. I will do a search now for it, but that sounds bad  I don't want to jeopardise this little guy now. He has come so far. I can't even sneak peek in the shed door now, he knows I am there  The head goes up strongly when he knows I am there.


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## imported_Varanus (Oct 15, 2011)

Nice work kathy, they're certainly tuff little buggers!


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## crocdoc (Oct 15, 2011)

Get a frozen mouse and chop it up, then thaw it out. That'll trigger it to eat. The other thing you may try is to smear some catfood onto the mouse bits - that stuff smells god-awful and goannas love the smell of god-awful.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 19, 2011)

Every time I enter the shed Ricky's head goes up . I think he is almost ready to return home. What is the best way to test his movement out properly? I want to make sure he can run well, but not sure what to do here. For other animals I've had appropriate enclosures to let them loose in to monitor their movements but I don't really have anything big enough to let this guy out in, to trial him, except my new aviary I am putting together for the intergrades. It isn't lacy proof though, but if I can temporarily block a missing wall, just so I can observe how he moves around, it might be enough to tell me whether or not he needs more time, and hopefully not annoy him too much.


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## serpenttongue (Oct 19, 2011)

Can you set up a video camera and film his enclosure? Then watch what you've recorded at the end of the day to see how he moves when you're not around. This would be good because his movements with be slow and deliberate, not forced and fastpaced as they would be if set loose into a larger enclosure. He may be ready to walk okay, but not ready to run fast.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 19, 2011)

I only have video option on my normal camera but I'll see how long that lasts. Will do that tomorrow just before I head to work. Thanks Nick


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## Angil (Oct 19, 2011)

I love monitor lizards, they are so beautiful, I think you're an amazing person to take him in (though I'm also insanely jealous lol) 

I always get upset when I see beautiful lizards and other animals who have been hit by cars. 
I commend you for stopping and helping this amazing little guy. 
I can't wait to hear more on his recovery.

All the best,
Angil


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## Fantazmic (Oct 19, 2011)

This is wonderful news...good on you !!!!!


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## mysnakesau (Oct 28, 2011)

Ricky is ready to go home  He is just waiting now, for the next hot day so we can release him. He is climbing on top of his hide boxes and moving about all over his cage, protesting when I look at him, so to me, that is a sure sign of a healthy lacy. He hates me  ungrateful bugger, and he won't eat but I have decided not to worry about that, I think its a wildcaught being held captive, issue. My daughter and I are going to have our cameras, so we can video his release and capture the still shots, too.


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## Fantazmic (Oct 28, 2011)

excellent news you have done so well...please try to post some pics of him going to freedom !!


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## snakeynewbie (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe take some day old chicks or mice with you when you release him and throw them around a bit to keep him going until he settles in


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## mysnakesau (Oct 28, 2011)

great idea. I will do that


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## Karly (Oct 31, 2011)

That's great news Kathy! It's good to have a success story.


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## SamNabz (Oct 31, 2011)

Great news Kathy! Can't wait to see pictures of his release.

You've done extremely well and *actually* listened to what the more experienced keepers have advised you to do, which is very rare these days.

Well done.


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## mysnakesau (Oct 31, 2011)

Thank you very much  . It is only in the best interest of the animal, to listen to those who are more experienced. I thought today might have been a go but the hot morning is covering over with clouds already. I guess I am never going to pick that perfect day, so this weekend coming is on the cards if it isn't raining and cold. I am really excited and also very nervous. But Serpenttongue has told me how to handle, wild lacies so I will try his method and hope I come home with my skin in tact...lol. We gotta pull him out of the enclosure while he is cold and sleepy in the morning. Then when we get to his territory we pop him on the ground in the full sun, wait till he warms up and watch him take off.


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## Karly (Nov 4, 2011)

So how is the weather looking for this weekend Kathy?


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## moosenoose (Nov 4, 2011)

This is great news (re: release). You've done an exceptional job! Well done


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## mysnakesau (Nov 4, 2011)

Looks like tomorrow is his day.  

I gave Ricky a test run in my bathroom just to see how well he moves. I know its probably normal for him to not be afraid of me, considering the time he's been in my care, but I hope his wild instinct will kick in when we release him. He was ready to attack but not trying to run away. But he's definitely moving nice and strong on his feet and did not lose control of his head 

I did a short video clip while I was watching him in the bathroom. Please excuse the dirty patch on the floor, I moved a cupboard out so he couldn't get behind anything. But I am more than happy to see him go home today. And according to our weather forecast, every day this week coming is getting hotter and hotter, so perfect for him, provided the forecast is correct. 

Ricky the Lacy - YouTube


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## Trouble (Nov 5, 2011)

Amazing work, Kathy!! I have been following this thread for the past 4 months, and you have done an amazing job! I am sure he is greatful for all your hard work. I hope the release went well, and can't wait to see the video/photos
Great work!!


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## mysnakesau (Nov 6, 2011)

*He isn't ready yet*

Test runs in confined areas wasn't enough to show us his true strength. Letting him out in the open bushland revved him up but it is very clear he isn't ready to go. Obviously, the taste of escape set him off that he just couldn't gain control of his co-ordination and even fell over onto his back a couple of times . He was strong enough on his feet and very quick to right himself when he did end up on his back, and managed to scramble up a tree and out of reach. But it was a real struggle for him. I was kicking myself, knowing that I've let him out to die, but as I reached up to him with a stick he fell. Luckily he caught the stick so I was able to stop him falling to the ground. Then Jamie threw the towel back over him, and I have brought him back home.

He appears to either needs much more time for healing, or has some brain damage  which means I have acquired permanent resident goanna.  Bad news is he is still in captivity, but the good news is, he is with me  . I am now going to work on getting him eating, even if I have to force feed him, and fixing up his enclosure to a more natural look with proper logs, and nag my husband to build him a nice, outdoor pen where he will be able to live out his days.

I am uploading a small video clip of his test run. Will put it up later, when its ready.


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## serpenttongue (Nov 6, 2011)

I think you should give him a day outside so he can get some sun, stretch his legs and climb on his own terms, intsead of being made to run. Allow him to really investigate an outdoor aviary with branches and logs etc and you'll be able to see how he swaggers and moves his head around to tongue-flick everything. But also be aware that he may go into hiding for a few days when placed outside (after half an hour of investigating).


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## crocdoc (Nov 6, 2011)

I was wondering about that slight head wobble he showed in the first video you showed of him on the floor and was hoping that's all it was. It sounds like it was an indication of something bigger. If he's come this far, you may find that he keeps improving.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 6, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> I think you should give him a day outside so he can get some sun, stretch his legs and climb on his own terms, intsead of being made to run. Allow him to really investigate an outdoor aviary with branches and logs etc and you'll be able to see how he swaggers and moves his head around to tongue-flick everything. But also be aware that he may go into hiding for a few days when placed outside (after half an hour of investigating).



Might give him a go in my new aviary before I put the snakes out. I took him out to Jamie's so that I had a better opinion than my own, watching him. At first we thought he might have been able to settle himself but it wasn't going to happen. And him falling off the tree was enough to tell me he wasn't ready to go.

Crocdoc - being in a fairly confined enclosure (4x2x2) he doesn't have the room to exert much energy, so his progress looked very good. I still give him the thumbs up but ready to go out in the world? Thumbs down. 

I don't care how long it takes, he is back in my care. I have the next two days off work so will go and gather some branches and find a nice log and re-deck his enclosure. My husband is thinking of ideas about building a suitable enclosure for him outside, which is going to be fantastic for him.

RickyClip - YouTube


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 6, 2011)

Having seen that second vid of him outside and your description of him falling over, it looks and sounds suspiciously like a "neuro problem" I've seen before in an Eastern Bearded Dragon I had in care last season. The animal would exhaust itself attempting to escape and eventually just lay there. Unfortunately this particular Beardie was not deemed viable for release and a decision was made to euth. Perhaps long term captive may be the go if Ricky fails to improve, assuming he's able to feed and taking water?

I should have mentioned that animal was also found on the road with no apparent injury apart from some blood in it's mouth.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 7, 2011)

I suppose if I can't get him eating, I might have to think about putting him down. But I won't make that decision too lightly. He has come so far and done so well to get back onto his feet. So, I see a new road ahead, let's see how he continues to travel


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## Bel03 (Nov 7, 2011)

Ive been watching your story, but hadnt checked in for awhile......wow he has sure made an improvement, so well done to you! Its a shame that he wasnt ready for release, & maybe he never will be, but i do hope that it is an option for him to stay with you, rather then him needing to be put to sleep. Ive got my fingers crossed for you, & Ricky, lets hope he just keeps getting stronger! Goodluck!


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## mysnakesau (Nov 7, 2011)

Bel711 said:


> ......., but i do hope that it is an option for him to stay with you, rather then him needing to be put to sleep. ......!



Of course he will stay with me. If he isn't suffering I won't have him put down. That's all I care about, is his well being.


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## Bel03 (Nov 7, 2011)

Sorry if my comment sounded as though i was saying that you wouldnt keep him! That is not at all how i meant it, I can tell that you only have his best interest at heart! I was simply saying that i hope that he keeps improving & doesnt need to be put to sleep. Whether he is released or not, im sure if he keeps recovering he will be a very happy monitor.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 7, 2011)

No need for apologies Bel. Your heart is in the right place. Thank you for your thoughts. I know he will have a good life here, and he won't be stuck in that enclosure for too much longer. Already working on getting him outdoors.

I hope he doesn't get lonely, though :?. I might have to get him some company, eventually.


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## crocdoc (Nov 7, 2011)

Monitors aren't particularly social (unlike, say, Cunningham's skinks), so don't fret too much about that. The danger is that if it still has neurological problems when its older and you try to introduce another lace monitor, the wobbly movements my trigger an attack from the other monitor. Their teeth do a lot of damage really quickly.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 7, 2011)

Thank you David.  I won't introduce any at all, if he will be un-effected on his own.


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## mudgudgeon (Nov 7, 2011)

Its a shame he wasn't up to being released  hope he keeps improving.
Good luck with it all


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## mysnakesau (Nov 8, 2011)

Ricky is outside enjoying some warm sun today. Unfortunately I don't have a larger outdoor enclosure at the moment, so this has to do. I'm just sweating on him not ripping the mesh with his claws  I offered him some nice smelly chicken dog food - Natures Choice brand - he was having a bit of a pick at it until he realised we were watching him, then he started climbing the walls.  His head movement while on the ground is good, but on the mesh he is less co-ordinated.






This shed is the start of his outdoor enclosure. We will be putting some wire around outside, too, so he has the shed for warmth and shelter, and can go outside, into the sunshine. I reckon it is too hot for summer, but we are talking about a goanna  and with the wire and decorations, we can make it pretty good for him. 





If you can offer some pointers to look out for, I am all ears  I get in-undated with reports of people having so much trouble with wild lacies getting into their chook pens, I need to make sure he doesn't get out. Jamie will no doubt offer his advice and assistance  here, but I am thinking a wire bottom floor and throwing dirt over that to hide the wire would be the way to go?


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## JAS101 (Nov 8, 2011)

good to see its coming along , i am now in the same delemer with my lacie [ making an enclosure so he can be permantly outside]


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 8, 2011)

With such a relatively small animal that's still requiring some monitoring (excuse the pun), Kathy, I would probably be looking into a larger indoor set up, high basking temps, lots of hides and some peace and quiet, where you are more able to control the surrounding environment, keep an eye on progress/health and escape isn't much of a concern. Plenty of examples here of good indoor caging for Lacies. You've made obvious progress already with this set up (where many others would have given up long ago, I suspect) and I can't see much advantage in a move outside, at least at this stage.


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## mysnakesau (Nov 8, 2011)

I found just two threads with photographs and details on indoor set ups. But it has a couple of awesome looking set ups & Crocdoc sent me a care sheet when I first brought Ricky into care, and I also have a book that belongs to Jamie, here, about keeping monitor lizards. So setting it up with the heat and lights isn't a problem. But how to deck it out to suit a lacy is what I went searching for. I think my fellow would require long and low rather than having any great height.


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 8, 2011)

I think your right with the long and low rather than lots of verticle space, given his particular problem. Personally, I'd probably go 1200mm- 2000mm(L)x600mm(H)x600mm-900mm(W) with a suitable thermal gradient and at least 200mm of a suitable substrate (I use coco-peat) and plenty of hides spread throughout in the form of hollow branches/logs, with a rock under your flood light for basking.

Here's an albiet temporary example I currently am using for my new addition. The cage type is totally unsuitable for Lacies and dosen't have a deep enough substrate dam, but I'm in the process of building something more suitable out of 18mm ply (from Bunnings).

The enclosures DK (crocdoc) uses for his younger animals are what I'm trying to get at for Ricky (check out his YouTube vids -"Food Gremlins" comes to mind, but also "Goblin and Tiger").

Hope this helps! And others may have other ideas they can contribute?!


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## mysnakesau (Nov 16, 2011)

Well, giving him a couple weeks to get over his trauma of "test release", I have started trying to feed Ricky again. While watching me like a hawk, I slowly reached over to him, with a spoon of chicken dogfood. I saw his tongue  for the first time since I've had him. Only just stuck the forks out but he showed interest in the food. But I had to drop the spoon eh  and scare him. HE didn't run but he backed away from the spoon. Thankfully he didn't attack, as I took a big risk, tipping the food onto the floor near him, bare handed. He just froze and watched, so I slowly backed off and left him to it. He ate it, but didn't eat the extra I put in a bowl. So now its time to get him going on the mice and pinky rats again.


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## imported_Varanus (Nov 16, 2011)

Give Ricky a go with diced adult mice/quail/chics. You may even be able to tong feed, if you move slowly enough, given Ricky's condition?! How's the enclosure going? Any pics??

Here's a pic of my lighting set up, Kathy, hope this helps! The rounded heat lamp is the Mega Ray/ Solar Glo and the others are a 75W and a 50W flood- style Halogen. Basking temps of55c-65c, depending somewhat on ambient temps for the day.

Substrate is 20cm of coco peat (damp, but not sodden) to retain humidity. Smaller vents, placed about 1/3 up either side help retain humidity also.


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## monitordude (Dec 13, 2011)

hey IV, how big are each of those tanks? and how big are the lacies in there?


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## imported_Varanus (Dec 13, 2011)

1200mm x 1200mm each side and both females are over the 1200mm mark in those pics. Very small and cramped, I know, but both animals also have the run of the house and the Bell's often spends her days outside in a much larger enclosure, but both animals still choose to use these cages as basking spots and overnight retreats. I guess it's what they grew up in and both feel comfortable with.

Here's their newer set ups, 2400mm x 1200mm x 8-900mm, but they still both prefer the original (go figure)!


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