# Axanthic Coastals (proven)



## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

I have been lucky enough to prove out a line of pure coastals to be axanthic, the original suspected axanthics where produced by Stephen Brooks and he was kind enough to let me work with them. This year I put them together and got a small clutch that has hatched out with 100% being axanthic.

Here's a pic of both the parents together.







and here's a pic of the ones that have emerged so far and a set of twins still in the egg.


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## abnrmal91 (Dec 16, 2011)

Looks good Wayne. Good to see they have finally come out of the eggs.


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## Addam (Dec 16, 2011)

Twins are too cute lol... Parents look cool tho


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## andyscott (Dec 16, 2011)

Fantastic work Wayne.
Although, was there ever any doubt with the Axanthic Coastals?


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## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

Was never any doubt in my mind Andy, but it's nice to have them prove out.


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## Southside Morelia (Dec 16, 2011)

Thats great mate, i'm glad someone has been able prove out some expected projects...it seems we are always waiting for a project to be proved out...lol
Congrats!


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## Vixen (Dec 16, 2011)

This is good to hear, I have some direct siblings from animals that produced the gray clutch aswell - I am not sure of the genetics though and how this trait is passed on. There are eggs currently in the incubator though so we'll see!


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## Herpaderpa (Dec 16, 2011)

the first baby is so dark  gorgeous, good work


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## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

I think the second one is hypo
Vixen they are recessive, so yours would be 66% possible hets


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## dihsmaj (Dec 16, 2011)

So what is axanthism?


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## Sutto82 (Dec 16, 2011)

Very nice


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## S&M Morelia (Dec 16, 2011)

Snakeluvver3 said:


> So what is axanthism?



Axanthism is where the organism is lacking xanthophores which in turn produce yellow pigment.
(So an animal that doesn't produce yellow pigment)

Congrats Wayne!
Great to see these proven out.


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## Kimberlyann (Dec 16, 2011)

TWINS!! How very exciting  congratulation's.
I like the 2nd one


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## Smithers (Dec 16, 2011)

Congrats Wayne glad to hear your efforts have been rewarded, loven the twins image, that's gold in itself.


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## sara_sabian (Dec 16, 2011)

Congrats! Exciting to see this proved out.


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## deebo (Dec 16, 2011)

Congrats mate. Axanthics aren't the most striking animals, not in the way albinos are with bright yellows ands whites, but they do have a nice subtlety about them with nice silvers and greys to them. 

Will be interesting to see what comes of these in the future with perhaps some striped or hypo blood thrown into the mix. 

Good luck with the project. 

Cheers
Dave


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## D3pro (Dec 16, 2011)

Congrats larks. Can't wait to see some snows!


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## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

Thank for the kind words guys.

Dave, the father of my adults was a hypo coastal, and my adults have some semi striping and hypo in them. The twins have just left the egg and they are showing some nice stripes.

Will take some pic's of the twins in a few minutes.


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## MrSpike (Dec 16, 2011)

Looking good larks. Did you breed out any double hets aswell this season, or where you waiting to confirm them?

Top work. The future is looking bright for morelia in Australia!


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## deebo (Dec 16, 2011)

Sounds good larks - the possibilty of snows is pretty cool....waiting for a clutch of double hets to hatch will be a nerve racking experience!

Cheers,
Dave


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## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

Yes I have done double hets and yes the wait was nerve racking.

Here's the pic of the twins, will have to have a good look later but they look to be identical.


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## benjamind2010 (Dec 16, 2011)

I reckon these would be nice paired up with some albino Darwins...I know that would be crossing subspecies which is frowned upon in some circles, but the resulting combination of both axanthic and albino genes would create an albino without any yellow colouring, so basically either pure white or a white/pinkish/flesh coloured scales.


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## Chris1 (Dec 16, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> I reckon these would be nice paired up with some albino Darwins...I know that would be crossing subspecies which is frowned upon in some circles, but the resulting combination of both axanthic and albino genes would create an albino without any yellow colouring, so basically either pure white or a white/pinkish/flesh coloured scales.



oooooh, nice,...!!!


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## saximus (Dec 16, 2011)

benjamind2010 said:


> I reckon these would be nice paired up with some albino Darwins...I know that would be crossing subspecies which is frowned upon in some circles, but the resulting combination of both axanthic and albino genes would create an albino without any yellow colouring, so basically either pure white or a white/pinkish/flesh coloured scales.



That's what the comments about snows and double hets are Benjamin

Congrats Larks very nice. I just had a thought - are B&W Jungles axanthic?


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## larks (Dec 16, 2011)

They are finally all out of the eggs, so here they are all together.


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## Basssman (Dec 16, 2011)

Did you get many double hets out larks?  bet ur keeping them all lol


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## larks (Dec 17, 2011)

I got enough  and yes I'm keeping them all.


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## MsMoreliaMagic (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks for all the comments everyone, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the hypo looking one looks like in a few sheds. And the twins are so cute.. I cant stopping looking at them


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## Ricochet (Dec 17, 2011)

Neat - both the parents look great, so i hope for your sake the tackers are going to be just as good

Can't wait to see what projects come out of these


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## MsMoreliaMagic (Dec 18, 2011)

Here's a pic of the mother


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## Trench (Dec 18, 2011)

so are these pure coastals or are they crossed with something?


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## MsMoreliaMagic (Dec 18, 2011)

Tench both the parents are 100 % Coastals


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## optimum (Dec 18, 2011)

awesome !


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## Trench (Dec 19, 2011)

MsMoreliaMagic said:


> Tench both the parents are 100 % Coastals



ok Thanks 
all this talk about them being double hets and producing snows got me a bit confused


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## steve6610 (Dec 20, 2011)

its been a long time, but its good to see them proven, well done wayne and jo, i'm glad you were able to continue and i'm looking forward to the snows, 

while i'm sad due to personal reasons i had to sell 99% of my reptiles, i'm very happy to know all the ones attacking me were wrong, 

to all the ones who supported me in the past, a big thanks.............

i did get a couple fully striped hatchys from the same parents, one was an axanthic, so they should and can produce striped and hypo coastals, 

mother was pure coastal, bred in my home town of mackay, by brett modra, the father was bought from jungle freak and has been traced back to mark sim, (not sure if he bred him, or not,) also a pure coastal, but a hypo,


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## D3pro (Dec 20, 2011)

I was over Steve's house before the last of the Axanthics was given to larks. Steve showed me the clutch mates and the difference was outstanding.
From what steve discovered it seemed pretty obvious that he was dealing with a recessive trait. I'm glad the project is continuing with Larks!

Good luck!


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## steve6610 (Dec 20, 2011)

been awhile mate,


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## larks (Dec 27, 2011)

The first hatchling to shed is one of the more hypo looking ones.


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## andyh (Dec 27, 2011)

awesome, these are a really important morph, cant wait to see what the future holds!


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## Mangles (Dec 28, 2011)

I just thought I would post a picture of my 4 year old male also bred by Stephen Brooks, which I think looks very similar to yours.


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## larks (Dec 28, 2011)

He looks awesome mangles.

One of the twins shed today.


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## hugsta (Dec 28, 2011)

Grats Larks and co. Awesome to see some nice Axanthics out here, look forward to seeing them as they get a bit older and start to colour up some more. Well done.


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## hrafna (Dec 28, 2011)

please correct me if i am wrong but doesn't an axanthic x albino create a snow? theoretically, basing this off of ball python and reticulated python breeding overseas.


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## saximus (Dec 28, 2011)

Yeah Greg that's what Larks is working on with these. 
I asked this earlier but no one answered. How would one know the difference between axanthics like these and something that had just been line bred like B&W Jungles?


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## hrafna (Dec 28, 2011)

saximus said:


> Yeah Greg that's what Larks is working on with these.
> I asked this earlier but no one answered. How would one know the difference between axanthics like these and something that had just been line bred like B&W Jungles?


 thanks mate. sorry with 2 kids running around the house and myself, i didn't read the whole thread. my bad!

i guess b + w diamonds also go into the equation for your question right?


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## hugsta (Dec 28, 2011)

hrafna said:


> thanks mate. sorry with 2 kids running around the house and myself, i didn't read the whole thread. my bad!
> 
> i guess b + w diamonds also go into the equation for your question right?



The trait needs to proven as being recessive and not just a polygenic trait. These are proven to be recessive traited axanthics.


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## hrafna (Dec 28, 2011)

yeah as i thought, b+w jungles/diamonds are polygenic like striped jungles and striped coastals. question, if a snow was bred, does it have the genetics for axanthic and albino? say if you bred it you could get snows, axanthic het albino etc etc?


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## pyrodarknessanny (Dec 28, 2011)

a snow exhibits both axanthic and albino traits (that IS what makes it a "snow")


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## hugsta (Dec 28, 2011)

You can end up with albinos, axanthics and snows and for some reason wild type is yelling at me as well for some reason. May need to go read up again, has been a while. Maybe googleman can enlighten us....lol.


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## Radar (Dec 28, 2011)

I also have a fully striped sib from this clutch with eggs in the incubator this season, seems like so many years ago these greys first appeared in Steve's incubator, lol. Nice work with proving it out larks, and for giving Steve the credit for first producing them rather than pinning your own name on it, which so many would be quick to do. Kudos.


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## hugsta (Dec 28, 2011)

rednut said:


> I also have a fully striped sib from this clutch with eggs in the incubator this season, seems like so many years ago these greys first appeared in Steve's incubator, lol. Nice work with proving it out larks, and for giving Steve the credit for first producing them rather than pinning your own name on it, which so many would be quick to do. Kudos.



Yes, agreed, credit where credit is due.


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## hrafna (Dec 28, 2011)

pyrodarknessanny said:


> a snow exhibits both axanthic and albino traits (that IS what makes it a "snow")


 i understand that is what makes it a snow, but just wondering if future breeding can provide more variety, say a snow to snow would give you X, Y and Z.


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## Jungle_Freak (Dec 28, 2011)

Snow bred to normal , the offspring will be double hets for snow.
Snow bred albino , all offspring will be albinos het for axanthic .
Snow bred to snow ,all offspring will be all snows .
But its possible there will be slight variation in the snows. It happens in other snow morphs IE ball pythons.
There can be slight variations in the amount of yellow reduction from the axanthic genetics thus giving slight variations in the snow morphs.

cheers Roger


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## hrafna (Dec 28, 2011)

Jungle_Freak said:


> Snow bred to normal , the offspring will be double hets for snow.
> Snow bred albino , all offspring will be albinos het for axanthic .
> Snow bred to snow ,all offspring will be all snows .
> But its possible there will be slight variation in the snows. It happens in other snow morphs IE ball pythons.
> ...


 thanks for that.


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## steve6610 (Dec 29, 2011)

looking nice mangles, i can't remember if you got a sibling or not, 

just for the record, there were only 3 people who got the axanthics, larks was the only one who got a pair, the other 2 got 1 each, and both were members here, 

but i did sell lots of siblings, but these would have been 66% axanthic, and also might carry the hypo gen, as the father was a hypo carrying the axanthic gen, i also used the male over a few other normal coastals to see what he would produce, while the hatchys were nice, not 1 showed as axanthic, so i'd presume these were all 33% axanthic, (from memery) 
also anybody who got a hypo from me will have a 33% chance they are carrying the axanthic gen, 

but saying that, i also breed several coastals that were unrelated to the 2 that were carrying the axanthic gen, so not everybody who bought coastals from me will have the axanthic gen,


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## larks (Dec 29, 2011)

Thank's for the comments guys, and thanks to those who answered the questions for me.

I was always going to give Steve the credit he deserves, it was important to me to do so and to also let Steve be the first to know when they were proven. It was an honour to be given the chance to work with these animals. I just hope that all the people who believed in Steve enough to purchase his animals now know just how special these animals really are.

The other twin shed today, so here's a pic of them together.


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## Dippy (Dec 29, 2011)

They are absolutely gorgeous Larks, And i believe a big Congratulations is in order Steve lol. Very lucky, Would love to get a pair lol.


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## citrus (Mar 12, 2012)

benjamind2010 said:


> I reckon these would be nice paired up with some albino Darwins...I know that would be crossing subspecies which is frowned upon in some circles, but the resulting combination of both axanthic and albino genes would create an albino without any yellow colouring, so basically either pure white or a white/pinkish/flesh coloured scales.



There is a pair of pure axanthic darwins hatchlings and poss hets that were produced this year and a guy in south Australia has a single adult so there will be pure snow darwins getting around soon as well


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## saximus (Mar 12, 2012)

citrus said:


> There is a pair of pure axanthic darwins hatchlings and poss hets that were produced this year and a guy in south Australia has a single adult so there will be pure snow darwins getting around soon as well


The "guy in South Australia" is the one who started this thread


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## junglepython2 (Mar 12, 2012)

The thread is about axanthic coastals though not darwins. Would be great if the snows could be pure.


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## larks (Mar 12, 2012)

citrus said:


> There is a pair of pure axanthic darwins hatchlings and poss hets that were produced this year and a guy in south Australia has a single adult so there will be pure snow darwins getting around soon as well



Is this line of axanthics proven? have you got any information on them? and why would a pure axanthic produce possible hets.

Or is there a possibility that these are the IJ axanthics from overseas that have popped up all of a sudden and being passed of as pure Darwins? Not saying that they are but is there any proof that they are Darwins or axanthic.


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## citrus (Mar 12, 2012)

For starts D3pro the troll comment was uncalled for....

Defiantly pure Darwins not from overseas. Two normal looking darwins were put together and produce a grey hypo looking female and 5 normal looking sibs(2 females since proven to be normal and 3 males not yet proven to be 100% het) the mother was quiet small when breed and I believe as a result died soon after laying. The father was put back over the daughter this season and produced 1 hypo axanthic looking male and a male/female axanthic pair as well as 8 normal 
looking sibs still some work to go but looks pretty promising to me as for the other axanthic adult with a guy in SA I don't know the full back ground on it.


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## larks (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks for the reply citrus, so are you saying the father was put over the axanthic looking daughter?


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## citrus (Mar 12, 2012)

larks said:


> Thanks for the reply citrus, so are you saying the father was put over the axanthic looking daughter?



Yes


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## larks (Mar 12, 2012)

Ok .... so it looks promising even though your numbers are a bit off, if the male is het for axanthic and the female is axanthic you should get half a clutch of axanthics .... but the answer to my question would be no they are not proven, so what you have there are possible axanthics, I really hope they prove out for you .... would love to see some pic's if you have any.


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## citrus (Mar 12, 2012)

There was a couple of slugs, Also when father was put over the other two normal looking daughters no grey offspring so looks to be recessive but yes still more work to do yet


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## Wama.CP (Mar 12, 2012)

Stunners ......Congrats


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## larks (Mar 12, 2012)

Cool ... any pic's of your possible axanthic??


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## citrus (Mar 12, 2012)

Mate I'm on my phone if you pm me your email and I will send you the photos I can share at this point in time


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## larks (Mar 12, 2012)

PM sent 

Got PM back still can't produce a pic ...... time will tell.


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## saximus (Mar 12, 2012)

Jo and Larks didn't get called trolls or told they were full of BS. I'm pretty sure that up until this point everyone praised them. 
If you have an unproven morph and you're trying to pass it off like it's already been perfected and proven then don't get upset when you get called on it. I think it's more a case of put up or shut up rather than anyone trying to put anyone down.


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## MsMoreliaMagic (Mar 12, 2012)

Well said saxi.. like larks said it's exciting to hear about new morphs, but you cant expect people to believe it until you have proof and are willing to share all the information to back it up. Otherwise it's pointless and just hearsay..

Also no one has told you that you are full of BS or knocked you.. if you make a claim that you have a morph you have to expect people to ask you questions and make inquries about the project.. it's a forum


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## raycam01_au (Mar 13, 2012)

Steve Brooks in a nice guy, know him well he has bought many of my sexy fish, and given me lots of info on snakes


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## Ozzie Python (Mar 13, 2012)

saximus said:


> Jo and Larks didn't get called trolls or told they were full of BS. I'm pretty sure that up until this point everyone praised them.
> If you have an unproven morph and you're trying to pass it off like it's already been perfected and proven then don't get upset when you get called on it. I think it's more a case of put up or shut up rather than anyone trying to put anyone down.



Wayne and Jo may not have, but steve certainly copped his fair amount of crap from people about his greys.

Well done on proving them out, and i'm sure steve was wrapped in the result also. Can't wait to see what else you get out of them in the future, plenty of potential with this bloodline.


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## Hoppa1874 (Jun 9, 2012)

I have a 6 yr old male axanthic coastal. He is a gorgeous grey. I think I may have been the first to have 1, way back when I joined this forum. I am selling his sister in the marketplace.


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## Hoppa1874 (Jun 9, 2012)

Pics on the way. I haven't breed him.


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## Hoppa1874 (Jun 9, 2012)

*My axanthic*

View attachment 255207
View attachment 255208

View attachment 255209
View attachment 255025

View attachment 255026

he is ready to shed atm, so it doesnt really give you a good indication for how grey he is.

so i added some pics from when he was a yrling.. must have been a better photographer then too.. hahaha


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## jinjajoe (Jun 9, 2012)

:facepalm:

A lot of BS tainting a credible thread which represents a step forward in carpet morphology.


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## larks (Jun 11, 2012)

Hoppa1874 said:


> I have a 6 yr old male axanthic coastal. He is a gorgeous grey. I think I may have been the first to have 1, way back when I joined this forum. I am selling his sister in the marketplace.



That's a nice snake but can you tell us what makes it axanthic?


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## larks (Jun 15, 2012)

Ok after talking to Hoppa via email it appears that this lovely looking snake is NOT a proven axanthic.
I'm all for people coming out with there suspected axanthics but until they are proven they are just that ... suspected axanthic.
This thread is about proven axanthics not grey coastals that may be axanthic. So if you have a grey coastal that you suspect may be axanthic please feel free to post it up, just do it in different threat please.


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## Goth-Girl (Jun 15, 2012)

Awsome Coastals..Very Exciting..Coastal Rock!!..


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## Venomous_RBB (Jun 15, 2012)

Your Coastal's are amazing 
Would love to see some updated pics of the hatchies?
Coastal's have such an amazing colour range, they are beautiful.


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## ghosts (Jun 25, 2012)

larks said:


> Ok after talking to Hoppa via email it appears that this lovely looking snake is NOT a proven axanthic.
> I'm all for people coming out with there suspected axanthics but until they are proven they are just that ... suspected axanthic.
> This thread is about proven axanthics not grey coastals that may be axanthic. So if you have a grey coastal that you suspect may be axanthic please feel free to post it up, just do it in different threat please.



so many people now claim the have axanthics.


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## steve6610 (Jun 25, 2012)

time to clear up a few things, for those that don't know me, i was the breeder of the axanthics that larks has, 

only 3 people got axanthics from me, larks got a pair, grumpy (nicole) got 1, and gabe got 1, i did sell the clutch mates, but these were sold before they were proven, now all the clutch mates that were sold were 66% hets, i also bred the original male to another 2 f/ms, he was also a hypo, those that can remember will also remember even my hypos were claimed by others to be not true, but these hypo hatchys and normal hatchys from these pairings were only 33% hets, as the f/m hypo and normal coastal f/m had no axanthic gens, so anybody who got any of these coastals have between 33% and 66% chance of having 1 that is a het, BUT unless they also got more then 1 that turned out to be hets the chances of breeding an axanthic is slim, unless somebody is keeping heaps of the hatchlings and breeding them back to each other, 
now just for the record i also bred several other coastals, so from the hundreds of coastal hatchys i sold over the years i bred, only 30/40 of these have any chance of being het for axanthic, and the chances that 1 person got 2 from me are even less, 
i also know some of the clutch mates to the 2 axanthics larks have died within the first year, this was due to a few reasons, mostly just bad luck, 

i also still have 100% of my paper work for every coastal hatchy i bred and sold, and larks and i are still in close contact so if ever anybody claims to have my snakes or one of my axanthics they should know that it can be checked out, 

as for hoppas, who is also a close friend of mine, she has never stated it was mine and it isn't, yes i have seen the snake in person, and offered to buy it a few times before i sold my reptiles, to me it could be axanthic, but as stated it has never been bred, so is still unproven, but still a very nice coastal, 

not sure how many remember the possible axanthic looking coastal zobo had, it was from the same line as hoppas, i was contacted not long ago by the person who said he now owns the other snakes that zobo had, again he was told it was one of mine, and i had to tell him it wasn't, zobo never got a coastal from me directly, 

also i know 100% that both the original parents have both died and were never bred from apart from the 2 years i bred them, the male dies 2 years ago from a tumor in his mouth while i still owned him, he had 1 failed clutch of eggs after i moved to brissy to my hypo f/m, the original f/m who was my mums first ever snake also died after she was sold by my mum to somebody else, in my opinion something went wrong with her when she laid her second clutch of eggs and that was the reason i didn't bring her to brissy with me, and the buyer knew my opinion but still bought her knowing she most likely wouldn't breed again, 

what i have wrote here is only what i believe to be true, but i could be wrong, 

not sure it helps clear things up, but i can say for certain that larks was the only person who got a pair of axanthics from me,


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## larks (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks for posting that up Steve, it should clear up a few things for those who aren't familiar with the history of this line.

Now here's a pic of what can be created from breeding 2 of these axanthics together, this pic is of a normal axanthic and a caramel ghost (hypo caramel and axanthic in the one snake).


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## jinjajoe (Jun 26, 2012)

larks said:


> Ok after talking to Hoppa via email it appears that this lovely looking snake is NOT a proven axanthic.
> I'm all for people coming out with there suspected axanthics but until they are proven they are just that ... suspected axanthic.
> This thread is about proven axanthics not grey coastals that may be axanthic. So if you have a grey coastal that you suspect may be axanthic please feel free to post it up, just do it in different threat please.



A lot of people should take notice of this post before they pin any fancy names to what is more often than not just natural variation to individual animals...... it gives me the *****s especially when there are many breeders who are tight lipped & patient on 5-6 years projects & then muppets come a long with some animal they have acquired a week ago for $50 and start calling it a morph.


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## hugsta (Jun 26, 2012)

jinjajoe said:


> A lot of people should take notice of this post before they pin any fancy names to what is more often than not just natural variation to individual animals...... it gives me the *****s especially when there are many breeders who are tight lipped & patient on 5-6 years projects & then muppets come a long with some animal they have acquired a week ago for $50 and start calling it a morph.



Couldn't agree more and most have no idea of the mode of inheritance and slap a fancy name on it anyway, Bit of a joke really.


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## ghosts (Jun 26, 2012)

larks said:


> Thanks for posting that up Steve, it should clear up a few things for those who aren't familiar with the history of this line.
> 
> Now here's a pic of what can be created from breeding 2 of these axanthics together, this pic is of a normal axanthic and a caramel ghost (hypo caramel and axanthic in the one snake).



is the caramel in the ghost co dom? i would have thought the axanthic would of turned out more like your ghost and a ghost would of been alot lighter.


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