# Small monitors?



## nir.n (Jul 7, 2014)

*Ackies monitors?*

Hey everyone, for the last couple of years I was interested in monitors, one of the main things that stopped me from getting a monitor was their size. Right now and for at least the next couple of years I won't be able to take care of big reptiles. However, in a reptile expo last year I saw some ackies monitors and the owner told me that they only grow up to 40-50 cm. So those are my questions: 
What other monitors reach those sizes? 
What type of license do i need to keep them(I'm from VIC)?
Can they be handled? Are they extra aggressive and "show only"? 
What is their price range and is there a breeder/s you would recommend?
Also any care sheets and tips are much welcomed(I found some but nothing equals to a first hand experience haha)! 
Feel free to pm me 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jacknife (Jul 7, 2014)

40-50cm is on the low end of average, many can easily get to 70cm or thereabouts in captivity.
Other monitors of around this size would be Black Head Monitors(my choice) or Storr's Monitors(average around 40-50cm). If you want something even smaller you can go for a Pygmy Mulga Monitor(25-30cm).
Pretty much all Monitors(Varanus) on taxa lists can be kept on a basic license here in Vic.
As young they can be handled, but as monitors grow they can become a little more unpredictable, not to mention their claws can do some real damage if they want to. That said some do take well with constant handling and can be quite tame as adults. Just never get too complacent around them.
Average price range for an Ackie/Ridgie or Black Head is about $300-$400.
Plenty of care sheets online, a google search will bring up a ton of pretty concise info on what you need for most monitor species.

Hope this helps buddy.


----------



## CrazyNut (Jul 7, 2014)

I would be looking at V.gilenni, V.storri, V.tristis and V.acanthurus (or anything within the V.tristis, V.storri and V.acanthurus complex). If you have your advanced than V.brevicauda (arguably the smallest monitor in the world) and if they are on licence where you are than V.Kingorum (they have a shorter STV length then V.brevicauda) the problem with V.Kingorum and V.Brevicauda is that they are certainly not a good beginner monitor and it's the same with V.kingorum. Not only that but you would be hard pressed to find V.kingorum for sale and V.brevicauda go for $800+. If I were you, best bet would be to start with either V.storri or V.gilenni. I can't remember if kingorum was on licence in VIC. V.gilenni, V.storri and V.acanthurus are (from what I have been told by other keepers) "good" to try to handle. From my experience V.tristis tend to be more skittish. I can't really say with the other 2 sorry.


----------



## nir.n (Jul 7, 2014)

Thank you for all the information! Got a lot of research to do 
I did find info about it in care sheets but i want to hear your opinion, what terrarium size would be good for 2-3 ackies/black head(I got some mixed info from google and youtube haha)? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## CrazyNut (Jul 7, 2014)

Your probably looking at an enclosure that is 120cmLx70cmHx60cmD for 2-3. 
Here a care sheet for ackies: http://www.gondwanareptiles.com.au/...captive-husbandry-of-the-ridge-tailed-monitor
here a care sheet for black headed's: http://goldcoastmonitors.webs.com/caresheets.htm


----------



## pinefamily (Jul 7, 2014)

Our three older ackies are about 25cm total length and we keep them in a 6 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft tank. But we usually go bigger with our reptiles lol.
Ackies are a great choice for a first monitor. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## nir.n (Jul 7, 2014)

Well, i looked around youtube, google and the search option in this forum and just wanted to know which monitor would you recommend and why? 
Right now ackies look abit more active then the black head.
And could you recommend places I can get ackies/black heads from? 
Thank you for all the help!


----------



## Rogue5861 (Jul 7, 2014)

Ackies are great and the breeder was correct most are around 45-50cm inc tail when full grown, not many actually reach the apparent average length of 70cm.

They seem to tame down/tolerate some handling as males, females are a lot more shy an flightly.

For an adult enclosure for a trio you would probably be looking at an enclosure around 1800x600-800x600-800mm, i currently have a 1 year old trio in a 1200x700x900 enclosure and i would say they are getting close to needing a larger enclosure already.


Rick


----------



## Radar (Jul 7, 2014)

V. s. ocreatus get to only about half the size of standard storrs monitors, amazing little guys. Bullet proof animals but not common in the hobby at all.


----------



## Jacknife (Jul 7, 2014)

Radar said:


> View attachment 311240
> 
> 
> V. s. ocreatus get to only about half the size of standard storrs monitors, amazing little guys. Bullet proof animals but not common in the hobby at all.



And not allowed to be kept in Victoria sadly.


----------



## Bushfire (Jul 7, 2014)

The apparent 70cm would be extremely rare and most likely refer to the groote ackies, which are rare in captivity. You should be allowed to keep V.s.ocreatus under a basic license, they are a subspecies of Varanus storri, which is on your species list. I think ackies would be a great beginner for you, they come in many colour forms, and are pretty hardy. Freckleds are a good small monitor, if you don't mind a shyer monitor, the SE QLD form get about a storrs size unlike the northern freckleds which get about an ackie size and its relative the tristis tristis, about 60 - 70cm+. What appeals to you would be the biggest factor.


----------



## CrazyNut (Jul 7, 2014)

Jacknife said:


> And not allowed to be kept in Victoria sadly.


Really? I thought they were? Is it the same case with V. tristis orientalis


----------



## Bushfire (Jul 7, 2014)

You can keep and there is quite a few ocreatus in Victoria. Orientalis is also well established in Victoria. Both on basic


----------



## Jacknife (Jul 7, 2014)

CrazyNut said:


> Really? I thought they were? Is it the same case with V. tristis orientalis





Bushfire said:


> You can keep and there is quite a few ocreatus in Victoria. Orientalis is also well established in Victoria. Both on basic



Orientalis are fine, but Ocreatus are on neither list of taxa allowed to be held in Vic, basic or advanced. Correct me if I'm wrong but if it's not on the list you can't have it right? And yes I looked at the current taxa list, as you certainly wouldn't be able to keep it unlicensed(like some turtle, skink and amphibian species).
If you could find me evidence of being allowed to keep them I'll happily change my mind... Then dedicate myself to sourcing some!


----------



## CrazyNut (Jul 7, 2014)

I believe you but I always thought they were on license that's all. I prefer brevicauda anyway. They are the smallest lol well in the Varanus family anyway.


----------



## butters (Jul 8, 2014)

Does the list specifically state V. storri storri or does it just say V. storri?


----------



## Bushfire (Jul 8, 2014)

You can keep them in Victoria. The list says Varanus storri, all the subspecies of storri including ocreatus and storri can be kept. It is the same deal as why orientalis can be kept. On your basic license you can keep Varanus tristis, orientalis is a subspecies of tristis so therefore can be kept. If on the list they only list at the species level then all subspecies could be kept perfectly legal. As I said there is ocreatus in Victoria and has been for a long time. So if you find any for sale and want them go for it you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## CrazyNut (Jul 8, 2014)

Sweet. I was gonna get a pair of V.storri but I think I might go with V.s.ocreatus. Lol. I would go with brevicauda but.. I don't have my advaced nor do I currently have $1600 for a pair.


----------



## Jacknife (Jul 8, 2014)

Bushfire said:


> You can keep them in Victoria. The list says Varanus storri, all the subspecies of storri including ocreatus and storri can be kept. It is the same deal as why orientalis can be kept. On your basic license you can keep Varanus tristis, orientalis is a subspecies of tristis so therefore can be kept. If on the list they only list at the species level then all subspecies could be kept perfectly legal. As I said there is ocreatus in Victoria and has been for a long time. So if you find any for sale and want them go for it you have nothing to worry about.




Thanks mate, that makes perfect sense and clears up the issue for me.
Now to find them!

I don't have much faith in the Vic taxa list to be honest, there are some pretty big blunders in it. Referring to water pythons as Liasis Mackloti is one that comes to mind, that can have a bag of worms consequence...


----------



## Spongy (Jul 8, 2014)

*Small monitors*

I have found striped tails monitors are easy to maintain as long as they have a hot spot and low humidity. I found they are easier to maintain and breed than bearded dragons.

- - - Updated - - -

Striped tails monitors are a good option. Easy too breed and to maintain. They breed like rabbits under the right conditions


----------



## Jacknife (Jul 9, 2014)

Spongy said:


> I have found striped tails monitors are easy to maintain as long as they have a hot spot and low humidity. I found they are easier to maintain and breed than bearded dragons.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Striped tails monitors are a good option. Easy too breed and to maintain. They breed like rabbits under the right conditions



Thats a good call, though you need an advanced license to keep them in Vic.


----------



## nir.n (Jul 14, 2014)

I did some more research and looked through the forum again(this time got up to threads from 2006) 
I didn't get answers for those questions: 
What temperatures should be in the enclosure from basking spot(some say 40-45 degrees and others say 60-70) to cold side.
At what age is it possible to tell their sex(i'm interested in a male and female/2 and cant afford the chance of getting 2 males).
Should chicken/beef be part of their diet? should pinkie mice be part of their diet? I'm basically asking how to feed them and how many times(adults and juveniles) because I read too many versions. 
I've never been a fan of woodies or crickets, they jump/climb everywhere but I guess with ackies I can't avoid them. Is one of them enough?(crickets or woodies) and if so which one is better? would you just let them run in the terrarium, place in a slippery bowl or feed with tweezers? And how will you make a bowl slippery without hurting the monitor?(without using vaseline or other substances that might harm the monitor). In addition to the crickets/woodies there will a constant supply of mealworms and giant mealworms(can they be given frequently and as a main part of the diet?).

Any help will be appreciated! I know i'm asking a lot of questions but I want to be ready and have everything figured out before getting a new animal. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jedi_339 (Jul 14, 2014)

nir.n said:


> I did some more research and looked through the forum again(this time got up to threads from 2006)
> I didn't get answers for those questions:
> What temperatures should be in the enclosure from basking spot(some say 40-45 degrees and others say 60-70) to cold side.
> At what age is it possible to tell their sex(i'm interested in a male and female/2 and cant afford the chance of getting 2 males).
> ...



I'll try to answer a few things from my limited experience with gilleni and soon to be caudolineatus,

My basking spot for the gilleni is at about 75 degrees, however they have a two tiered slate hotspot, so while one sits at about 75, the other probably sits closer to the 55-60 mark (though I haven't bothered to measure the cooler of the two). If I were you I'd be aiming at the 55-60 mark, but so long as they have a good gradient between the heat and ambient room temp they should be fine.

Sexing can be done a number of ways, none are 100% reliable for inexperienced people such as ourselves, I used the hemipenal transillumination technique and even then I had to go and ask for another few opinions, your best bet would to get someone who knows what they are doing to help, but this technique works best when the monitor is both relaxed and young, so I've been told.

I feed mine cut up chicken hearts and small pieces of flesh (no bone) from chicken necks every now and again, it isn't recommended to feed them these meats as a staple because they lack the organs, roughage and other associated vitamins, minerals etc. that the monitor would normally get from whole prey items, In saying that it answers your next question, cut-up mice are good for them because they include all the other parts of the animal, bones, organs, fur etc.

I've never fed my monitors woodies, mainly because I don't keep them, however generally speaking crickets are the main prey item I feed, I just throw them in dusted with calcium powder every second or third feed when I remember. No need for a bowl or container for the crickets, they will actively hunt them down, however it is never advisable to throw in more than they can eat in a few minutes, I know of someone who had their gilleni's toes eaten by crickets when too many were left in there.

Meal worms / giant mealworms are not good for a staple, they are fine if fed every now and then, they are too fatty (so I've been told) and monitors can be prone to obesity in captivity if overfed (especially males). I also feed mine newly metamorphosed giant meal worm beetles which they seem to love, however that's once again only occasionally as I don't often catch them fresh.

I don't know if I answered everything, however there's a bit of info for you to have a look at.

Cheers

J


----------



## nir.n (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks for the answer! It does help a lot! 
The more I know the better 
I read that pinkies are enough because the "other parts" don't get digested anyway. Any comments about that? 
And again, any help would be appreciated! I really want to know the age at which the monitor can be sexed and the methods that are used. 
I'll take any tips and help!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Stevo2 (Jul 14, 2014)

A great reference for you to get your hands on, that answers most of your questions, is "A Guide to Australian Monitors in Captivity".

http://www.geckodan.com/index.php?page=bookshop?pg1

I have a colony of black headed monitors and find them hassle free - a couple of basking spots in their large enclosure (not sure of the basking temp and they self regulate anyway), dusted crickets, pinkies for the male (the females flick their tongues in dislike at pinkies and run away, lol) and turkey mince with added calcium and vitamins.


----------



## Crazycow232 (Jul 14, 2014)

gday mate

Basking temp should be around 55-70. cold side should be around 25-30. Woodies are better as they have more meat and less shell and are also easier to care for. It is better if you feed them whole animals like mice rather than just plain meat. The bones and fur will give them more nutrients than plain meat. You might be able to get away with plain meat but you will have to put vit and cal powder on more often. 

Hope i helped.

Good luck


----------



## Rogue5861 (Jul 14, 2014)

I would say cold end temps of 25-30 during winter and 30-35c over summer. Basking spots of between 55-70 (my ackies spend more time under the 55c one then the 70c, but the 70c is over a stack they spend a lot of time in).

Feed 60% woodies, 5% crickets and 35% mice (chopped up or 5-6 day old pinkies). Dust calcium every 2-3 feeds.


Rick


----------



## nir.n (Jul 14, 2014)

Should I feed in the same way the younger ackies? I just dont think my parents would like the idea of me chopping mice in my room so ill stick to 5-6 year old pinkies haha. 
No chicken/beef? Can the crickets be frozen?
Also I would appreciate any information about sexing the monitors and age. 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## pinefamily (Jul 14, 2014)

Whole prey (chopped or otherwise) is preferable to chicken or turkey. No beef. Turkey chicken or kangaroo are good lean options as an occasional feed. Our ackies are all juveniles and only starting to eat food other than crickets. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## pinefamily (Jul 16, 2014)

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, you should not post anything.


----------

