# urgent help. dieing beardie!!!!



## Bretsta (Feb 19, 2010)

Does anyone know of an emergency vet in melb that would be open now. My biggest and what was healthiest beardie has not moved much the last few days. every now and then some of em do that so didn't think to much of it, thought maybe bout to shed or something.

Have just arrived home to find him on his back!!!!! i instantly thought he was dead but seen his arm move. i nudged him, and he kind of moved but hasn't even opened his eyes. we've pulled him out of his enclosure and everything trying to comfort him and check for life, but other than some breathing hasn't move. 

last few days he has slept heaps, hardly or not eaten, and beard has been constantly black.

ummmm..... has just opened his eyes and is slowly shaking his head back and forth and is taking slow deep breathes but not often.

i know of a herp vet at the lort smith, but don't think there open. does anyone know of anything, or have any suggestions??????

please asap help needed!!!!!


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## Bretsta (Feb 19, 2010)

call me if you need to. i think he possibly have hours at best. possibly minutes

0424134351 names Brett


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

he just had a spasm type thing happen. like he couldn't control it. has settled again. the spasm cause his eyes to open and he looked alert for a second. but has closed them again now.


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

think it's really hurting to breathe. has had another 2 spasms since first!


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## spydalover (Feb 20, 2010)

you could try this number 1300764332 hope this helps


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## corky (Feb 20, 2010)

Try call some vets asap. Sometimes their land line goes to their mobile after hours. Good luck


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## Biert (Feb 20, 2010)

Try this, did some digging on the net. 

*Dr Brendan Carmel, All Pets, Warranwood Veterinary Centre, 
Phone  0417 358 991 ,* 

Goodluck, hope you can save your beardie!


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 20, 2010)

Brett man Im so sorry for you hey this sounds exactly like what happened to my little netted its so not nice to watch and sadly there is nothing you can do about it. The spasms are his lungs giving way all you can do is give him heat and make him comfortable, nature will take its course and sadly it doesnt sound too good for him. I know what your going through mate and my heart goes out to you.


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## schizmz (Feb 20, 2010)

1300reptile


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

on phone atm to vet nurse. she has reptiles but thats as far as this clinic goes. shes talking to vets atm to see what they know b4 i make the trip


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 20, 2010)

I hope that you find someone that can help him champ good luck.


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

schizmz said:


> 1300reptile




calling now............


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

woke someone


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 20, 2010)

Good luck dude
Try to keep him warm until you get him help


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

seriously i think i know more than the people i'm calling. i think this is gonna have to wait till morning if Tony can make it that far. fingers crossed.

is it cruel to leave him like this till then?????


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

have set a spare enclosure up. temp should i give him. it's at 28 currently as they all usually are at this time of night for my guys


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 20, 2010)

Mate IMO definately not if he's alive theres hope just keep him warm. Dont leave any water in his enclosure either


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 20, 2010)

36


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

cheers DL85. bumping temps up now!!!!!


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 20, 2010)

Just make sure the temps dont go higher if you can avoid it though hey. I have my fingers crossed for you and him. xxxxxx


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## GTsteve (Feb 20, 2010)

Bloody hell this doesn't sound good! I hope that the fact you haven't replied for 50 minutes means you've made it to a vet so good luck and keep us posted.


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## GTsteve (Feb 20, 2010)

*****ing iPhone not updating threads!!! No luck with a vet for tonight then?


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

GTsteve said:


> Bloody hell this doesn't sound good! I hope that the fact you haven't replied for 50 minutes means you've made it to a vet so good luck and keep us posted.




Unfortunetly not. am taking Dragon Lovers advice and preying he make it to morning. will be a long night.

have waked a thermometer and globe in an empty enclosure and will be sitting close by it to monitor tempts to be at but not above 36. thermo is right next to where i have layed him. have placed him on top of a towel, and placed another just over his eyes as had him like that when was holding him and he seemed to relax slightly.

fingers crossed for now.


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

starting to question myself now. so, if anyone has any idea what the cause of this might have been, please let me know. this guy had 3 house mates who all seem fine ATM. i don't think i've made any mistakes, have done plenty of researched and asked plenty of questions for these guys, but if i have made a mistake, i don't wanna make it again!!!!!!!

so any ideas on whats happened, and what may have been the cause, please express your opinions (please, experienced people only, cause this stuff is obviously very serious).

tempts are climbing in the enclosure, at 32.5 now. Tony's breath's are few and far between, but he's breathing!


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 20, 2010)

Bretsta said:


> starting to question myself now. so, if anyone has any idea what the cause of this might have been, please let me know. this guy had 3 house mates who all seem fine ATM. i don't think i've made any mistakes, have done plenty of researched and asked plenty of questions for these guys, but if i have made a mistake, i don't wanna make it again!!!!!!!
> 
> so any ideas on whats happened, and what may have been the cause, please express your opinions (please, experienced people only, cause this stuff is obviously very serious).
> 
> tempts are climbing in the enclosure, at 32.5 now. Tony's breath's are few and far between, but he's breathing!


just stick in there, hopefully he can make it to the vets

How old is he?
What is his diet etc and can u post a pic of his enclosure?


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

don't have pics of enclosure handy. but 4x2x2 shared with 3 others. day globe (basking) and night globe (red) on separate (dimming) thermostats. day temp 38 hot end, cool end varies depending on outside temp, but usually between 28-30. been a warmish day in melb. night temp 28-30. UV globe, 6 months old, with 12 month life at new.

He is 8 month's old. biggest and was healthiest and had biggest appetite of all the beardies (definite male, as confirmed by others). vegies (carrot, cumcuber, lettuce, bok choy) most days. woodie's daily, dusted with vitamin powder prob twice a week. also use a dragon juvi pellet in with his vegies (daily), and a vitamin spray 2-3 times a week. have observed him eating all of these things (again, biggest and healthiest dragon by far till now, has never looked slightly of colour!)


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

Geckoman123 said:


> just stick in there, hopefully he can make it to the vets
> 
> How old is he?
> What is his diet etc and can u post a pic of his enclosure?




sorry, should've quoted this first. answer's in my last post 1 minute ago. cheers mate.


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

temp is now at 34.5, and his still breathing, but hasn't moved at all since i place him in the (just set up) enclosure. He's as i left him. At least he's resting. He's asleep. Vet first thing tomoz! hope he makes it... If anyone in melb has anyone to recommend by all means let me know, but at this stage i'm going to the lort smith. i'm preying one of there 2 specialist reptile vets are there!!! will be calling at 8.30am to confirm, and i hear there is also one in werribee. will also call my local beardie whisper (pet shop owner who's been awesome in sharing what he knows, which seems to be alot) and hope he can point me somewhere if lort smith aren't available! thanks everyone for the great help so late. 

keep your fingers crossed for young Tony for me. I'm trying my best in the circumstances to think positive.

Cheers people!!!!


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## Shere Khan (Feb 20, 2010)

Ey mate Dr Brendan Carmel at Warrenwood Veterinary Centre is a great vet. I take all my reptiles to him. 

Warrenwood Veterinary Centre
1 Colman Road, Warranwood
ph: 9879 0900

Best of luck!!!!


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

Shere Khan said:


> Ey mate Dr Brendan Carmel at Warrenwood Veterinary Centre is a great vet. I take all my reptiles to him.
> 
> Warrenwood Veterinary Centre
> 1 Colman Road, Warranwood
> ...



awesome, thank you. 

have set up camp next to Tony now for tonight to keep and eye on him seems i can't sleep.

thanks everyone


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## nicman72 (Feb 20, 2010)

Holy crap, just found this thread... Bretsta, how is he this morning? 
Nic


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## shellfisch (Feb 20, 2010)

Fingers crossed for you and Tony, Bretsta 
xxx


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## Fireflyshuffle (Feb 20, 2010)

Hey Bretsta, I noticed in a previous post you mentioned you give him vitamin spray three times a week?Can you explain the vitamin spray?


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## Lollypop (Feb 20, 2010)

OMG, you poor thing! Is he still alive??
If u make it to the vet, make sure you pop Tony in a pillowcase or something similar to transport him so he doesn't stress as much - something dark.
I so hope he pulls thru................


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## Sel (Feb 20, 2010)

Hope the little guy is ok!
Good luck with the vet, it doesnt look good though


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## Brettix (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi Brett

Sorry to hear this said news mate,its not 1 from me is it ?
Hows he going now and did you get him to the vets. ?
I was also wondering about the amount of vit spray u are using.
I think you should be cutting it back to 1 spray per week if at all.

cheers


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## nicman72 (Feb 20, 2010)

Any news Bretsta? We're all hanging here.... Hope like hell he's still with us mate. Good luck.
Nic


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## gregcranston (Feb 20, 2010)

Dreading the inevitable news, but just need to know!


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## SH2610 (Feb 20, 2010)

any news??


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## Lollypop (Feb 20, 2010)

gregcranston said:


> Dreading the inevitable news, but just need to know!


 
Greg, so pessimistic!! (realistic, be it otherwise called)
Hoping he got it to the vet in time for copious amounts of antibiotics for a possible lung infection, or copious amounts of fluids for dehydration problems due to possible psychological bullying??
We've got to live in hope.....................:?


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## Mitch1 (Feb 20, 2010)

Fingers Crossed For You Bret. Hopefully Tony Pulls Through.


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## Notorious_Guf (Feb 20, 2010)

Bretsta said:


> don't have pics of enclosure handy. but 4x2x2 shared with 3 others. day globe (basking) and night globe (red) on separate (dimming) thermostats. day temp 38 hot end, cool end varies depending on outside temp, but usually between 28-30. been a warmish day in melb. night temp 28-30. UV globe, 6 months old, with 12 month life at new.
> 
> He is 8 month's old. biggest and was healthiest and had biggest appetite of all the beardies (definite male, as confirmed by others). vegies (carrot, cumcuber, lettuce, bok choy) most days. woodie's daily, dusted with vitamin powder prob twice a week. also use a dragon juvi pellet in with his vegies (daily), and a vitamin spray 2-3 times a week. have observed him eating all of these things (again, biggest and healthiest dragon by far till now, has never looked slightly of colour!)



Hi, I hope things are looking up, I've never heard of a spray so I'm interested to know what that is and someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but Lettuce is a BIG No No?? I've read and been told that, plus I'm pretty sure I know some people who have fed lettuce and their dragon's didn't last long.


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## adz83 (Feb 20, 2010)

any update?


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## n1cky83 (Feb 20, 2010)

you poor thing hope everything he's getting better and seen a vet


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## babba007 (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm hoping no news is good news. Fingers crossed he's ok.


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## bigdash (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi m8, so sad reading your threads i could not imagine finding 1 of my beardies that way. My wife was in tears reading about Tony. I hope and pray that he made it through the night and you got him to a good vet m8. Thinking of you and Tony all the best...


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 20, 2010)

Notorious_Guf said:


> Hi, I hope things are looking up, I've never heard of a spray so I'm interested to know what that is and someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but Lettuce is a BIG No No?? I've read and been told that, plus I'm pretty sure I know some people who have fed lettuce and their dragon's didn't last long.


I think the main problem with lettuce is it causes the runs and has no nutritional value, i dont think it is toxic though i could be wrong


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## fabregasreptiles (Feb 20, 2010)

hey, how r u doing. i just found this thread and i really feel sorry for you. hope he is alright


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## Bretsta (Feb 20, 2010)

Tony made it through the night. And had not moved at all from where i placed him last night until i got him out this morning. took and hour and a half to find a vet this morning on the phone. found one vet who refused to see him, saying they were booked out. Told that lady this wasn't a general check up, and that Tony appeared to be dieing, but apparently this Vet didn't go into business to save animal lives.

Finally got on to a place in Frankston. It's an hour and a half away, so was worried bout Tony getting there, but he made it. Used a pillow case, as advised to in this thread, and gave him plenty of blankets to lay on top of. (this vet was busy also, but more than happy to accommodate!!!) Vet's name was Shane (forget last name) at Karingal Vet Hospital, and was sensational, and i highly recommend him to anyone. Other than being concern bout the stress the long journey may cause, it was more than worth the trip! Unfortunately though, after a long examination, and an ultrasound, the vet was unable to conclude anything concrete. He suspects a neurological problem, and Tony is staying the night and getting some blood tests to try and find an answer. The vet also suspected pain around the stomach and said he'd give Tony something for the pain. 

The vet said he would check results of the blood test's tomorrow from home when they come through, and possibly return to the clinic for Tony if need be for treatment (on his day off, which is also his son's 7th birthday party!! someone say "Dedication"). Price's were reasonable to for the amount of effort put in.

So for now it's just cross the fingers and hope for some good news. to answer some questions...... (sorry if i missed someone, been long night and day, and verrrrry tired) ......... 



Brettix said:


> Hi Brett
> 
> Sorry to hear this said news mate,its not 1 from me is it ?
> Hows he going now and did you get him to the vets. ?
> ...



Nah mate. Not one from you, my favorite (shouldn't have favorite's, lol) of the bigger guys i have. 

The spray is from a company called reptile science, and called, vitamin and mineral spray for reptiles (with added calcium). bought and recommended from a reptile specific pet shop. think i should pass on this from now on?? 



Lollypop said:


> Greg, so pessimistic!! (realistic, be it otherwise called)
> Hoping he got it to the vet in time for copious amounts of antibiotics for a possible lung infection, or copious amounts of fluids for dehydration problems due to possible psychological bullying??
> We've got to live in hope.....................:?



Ultrasound revealed nothing on the lungs and no dehydration. The vet said from what he had observed, Tony appeared physically very healthy other than the worry of the symptoms, and specifically commented on Tony's weight and thickness in tail/ lower body, and his hydration. Vet said this seems to be a very weird case. 

as far as psychological bullying goes, Tony loves being out and about and being held, and runs to the window of the enclosure when i walk into the room to come out. And inside the enclosure, Tony is the boss with his size and personality amongst the other dragons he lives with. 



Notorious_Guf said:


> Hi, I hope things are looking up, I've never heard of a spray so I'm interested to know what that is and someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but Lettuce is a BIG No No?? I've read and been told that, plus I'm pretty sure I know some people who have fed lettuce and their dragon's didn't last long.



Let the vet know exactly what i feed Tony, including the lettuce, and he said that the diet was fine and made no recommendations to change. (can't remember if i mentioned the spray though!) I haven't observed as yet anyone who hasn't used lettuce in a mix for dragons salad. Heard Iceberg lettuce can cause messy number 2's, but i don't use Iceberg.


Thanks everyone, sorry it took a while to get back, but only just got home for the day as was at a friends after dropping off Tony. Least he is in good hands with so many caring and knowledgeable people around him if something else goes wrong.

Thanks again for all the help and concern from everyone!!!! very much appreciated!


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## Dipcdame (Feb 20, 2010)

Good luck Brett, I have held my breath all the way through reading this thread! I'm exhausted now!!

Please keep us posted? I sincerely hope he pulls through for you, you sound like a wonderful, caring owner, and you deserve to get him back healthy!


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## cosmicwolf4 (Feb 20, 2010)

Brett I hope all goes well for you. You obviously really care about Tony very much. I know next to nothing about lizards, but have been following this thread as it goes along. At least the vet you are seeing cares, unlike the other one who only wants the cash. He will at least be cared for as he should
Good luck mate


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## Dragon_Lover_85 (Feb 21, 2010)

Still have fingers crossed for you and Tony Brett xxxxxxxx I hope the tests can reveal something for you so the vet can move forward and get him treated. Good Luck mate.


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## lizardjasper (Feb 21, 2010)

Poor baby. I hope he gets better soon! Little hugs and kisses for Tony!


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## nicman72 (Feb 21, 2010)

You must be wrecked mate. I've been thinking about Tony since I first read this thread; so glad he made it through the night. Hope the vet can fix him up today. He's in the best hands now... Let us know how it all goes.
Nic


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## symbol (Feb 21, 2010)

Its good to see such dedication in getting care for Tony. I would do the same thing. Geez!! Bloody animals what they do to us!!! hahahaha Have been watching the post...Iam sure we are all interested to hear the outcome and hopefully the cause. If you havent spoken to the vet about the vitamin spray, it might be worth calling him and telling him. Its good that vet knows everything.


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## JAS101 (Feb 21, 2010)

symbol said:


> Its good to see such dedication in getting care for Tony. I would do the same thing. Geez!! Bloody animals what they do to us!!! hahahaha Have been watching the post...Iam sure we are all interested to hear the outcome and hopefully the cause. If you havent spoken to the vet about the vitamin spray, it might be worth calling him and telling him. Its good that vet knows everything.


im sure shane simpson would have asked many many questions , but when u go back it wouldnt huryt to give the spray bottle to shane and see what he says about it .


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## SuburbanMe (Feb 21, 2010)

Hey Brett,

Shane is my vet too, He's Awesome!
I'm sure if Shane is looking after him, he'll do EVERYTHING he can to help save your little guy. Shane keeps reptiles himself, The guy has a genuine love for herps of all kinds, and he goes out of his way to do everything he can.

I really hope Tony pulls through,

Fingers are crossed for ya, he's in good hands.


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## GeckoJosh (Feb 21, 2010)

Mate thats great to hear he made it to the vets, i thought he wasnt going to make the night.
Good luck with him and please keep us updated

Thanks
Gecks


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## nicman72 (Feb 21, 2010)

What's the latest mate? Any results come in? Is Tony still with us?
Nic


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## Bretsta (Feb 21, 2010)

ZOOJAS said:


> im sure shane simpson would have asked many many questions , but when u go back it wouldnt huryt to give the spray bottle to shane and see what he says about it .




definitly will do mate!

No update yet guys, and i appreciate the interest, concerns and well wish's.

Shane Simpson, that's the one. Yeah he's great!! 

Was told i'd get a call today when the results for blood test came it but didn't happen. I called them at 4 cause couldn't handle waiting any longer, lol, but got a phone message saying that they closed at 3, so looks like i'll (by the sound of it actually, "we all") have to wait until tomorrow! Will definitely keep everyone updated. Thanks again everyone!


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## gregcranston (Feb 22, 2010)

What's the latest on your beardie?


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## JasonL (Feb 22, 2010)

Where xrays taken to check for bone density? I would be thinking down the lines of hypocalcemia, as that will cause muscle spasms and fitting, getting bloods taken to check calcium levels would be ideal, but I am unsure if it is done here in Aust on a regular basis, it is in the US. This will tell you what level it is at that moment, though some calcium (with the correct heating and if it's available) can be taken from the skeleton, thus the xray. It may be possible that the blood levels fluctuate faster than the reabsorption process can fulfill, thus bloods would be a better option if possible.
Male Beardies seem to suffer sudden deaths when kept with other dragons 24/7, maybe it is from over excertion draining on the calcium levels within the blood that cause a myrid of problems, adding to the fact that BDs that are kept inside are almost always lacking in correct UV, and are also almost always kept overheated, and I'm not talking about basking spot or hot end temps, I'm talking about being given "ideal temps" over most of the year, no time for the dragon to cool down, no weeks of inactivity during the warmer times of the year ect.... basically they are being "super charged" into life...
well thats my input and thoughts anyway... 
Hope all works out for him, Best of luck.


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## GTsteve (Feb 22, 2010)

Any news mate?


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## Bretsta (Feb 23, 2010)

haven't heard from Shane Simpson yet, as apparently he wasn't in again today.

Unfortunately i was contacted by the vet clinic at 1.20pm today though, and they told me that Tony had passed over night. They didn't give me any other information though other than i would be contacted tomorrow by Shane to discuss results of the blood test. This should have happened Sunday though, so hopefully it wasn't anything that would've been reversible if done yesterday.

So unfortunately a sad end to this story and thread. Thanks everyone for the help and support!

I've added some pics for those curious of young Tony's looks. He's passed at only about 8 month's of age. 

Brett 


Tony as a hatchling on the far right




A healthy Tony. Pic taken 25/01/2010


 

 


Tony within minute's of being found on his back after returning home.



 


Tony where he slept the night before going to the vet.


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## Andie (Feb 23, 2010)

I am so so sorry to hear that he didn't make it. You did right by the little fella for sure. He was lucky to have such a dedicated owner.

I know how you feel as I lost my little dragon (also 8 months old) out of the blue last Monday. I hope the blood test results give you some closure and explanations for what happened.

It is weird that they didn't call you until after lunch!


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## Bretsta (Feb 23, 2010)

Andie said:


> I am so so sorry to hear that he didn't make it. You did right by the little fella for sure. He was lucky to have such a dedicated owner.
> 
> I know how you feel as I lost my little dragon (also 8 months old) out of the blue last Monday. I hope the blood test results give you some closure and explanations for what happened.
> 
> It is weird that they didn't call you until after lunch!




Yeah i know, i was a bit disappointed about that, but other than that they had been great, so guess gotta take the good with the bad.

Sorry to hear bout the loss of your little one. feel free to post some pics of him/her here as a memorial if you like!


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## Bretsta (Feb 23, 2010)

JasonL said:


> Where xrays taken to check for bone density? I would be thinking down the lines of hypocalcemia, as that will cause muscle spasms and fitting, getting bloods taken to check calcium levels would be ideal, but I am unsure if it is done here in Aust on a regular basis, it is in the US. This will tell you what level it is at that moment, though some calcium (with the correct heating and if it's available) can be taken from the skeleton, thus the xray. It may be possible that the blood levels fluctuate faster than the reabsorption process can fulfill, thus bloods would be a better option if possible.
> Male Beardies seem to suffer sudden deaths when kept with other dragons 24/7, maybe it is from over excertion draining on the calcium levels within the blood that cause a myrid of problems, adding to the fact that BDs that are kept inside are almost always lacking in correct UV, and are also almost always kept overheated, and I'm not talking about basking spot or hot end temps, I'm talking about being given "ideal temps" over most of the year, no time for the dragon to cool down, no weeks of inactivity during the warmer times of the year ect.... basically they are being "super charged" into life...
> well thats my input and thoughts anyway...
> Hope all works out for him, Best of luck.



No x-ray's Jas, just the Ultra sound which showed nothing unusual, and the blood tests which i'm still waiting for results on. Will make another post here when i'm informed on the results!


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## Sel (Feb 23, 2010)

oh no 

Im sorry, very sad news
RIP little guy


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## Kendra (Feb 23, 2010)

So sorry t hear about little tony i know he would have be so proud of you and what you did for him.. couldn't have asked for a better owner that loved him dearly.. 
RIP Little Tony


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## shellfisch (Feb 23, 2010)

Really sorry to hear that, Bretsta.


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## nicman72 (Feb 23, 2010)

Dunno what to say Brett... you must be devastated.  This terrible news has certainly cast a cloud over my day, can't imagine what you're going through...
RIP Tony.


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## Lollypop (Feb 23, 2010)

:cry::cry::cry: So sad for you!! Can see why it's confusing - he was otherwise huge & healthy hey. Hope the vet can shed some light. So sorry.........Kathy


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## JasonL (Feb 23, 2010)

Bretsta said:


> No x-ray's Jas, just the Ultra sound which showed nothing unusual, and the blood tests which i'm still waiting for results on. Will make another post here when i'm informed on the results!



Sorry to hear..... see if they can check the calcium levels as they may just look at white blood cells ect...


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## redbellybite (Feb 23, 2010)

Sorry to hear that  
after reading what Jason said ....its does make alot of sense ...

still it dont take your pain away from losing a pet now ...


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## porkosta (Feb 23, 2010)

Sorry to hear what has happened to your little guy. It's hard losing a pet of any kind


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## Chris1 (Feb 23, 2010)

really sorry to hear u lost ur man.
i hope ur ok.


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## cosmicwolf4 (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm so sorry to see you lost Tony. I hope you are ok and not stressing too much, these things happen sometimes. At least he's not suffering anymore.
Hopefully you will get an explanation for what has caused it before too long and then at least have some closure.


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## TomsPhotos (Feb 23, 2010)

i only just made my acc this is the first thing i saw must be such a sad los rip tony


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## PSimmo (Feb 23, 2010)

sorry to hear of Tony's passing...sux when you loose a loved critter


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## Bretsta (Feb 23, 2010)

JasonL said:


> Sorry to hear..... see if they can check the calcium levels as they may just look at white blood cells ect...




Got a call today, and u could be right cause all they said was that there was a severe blood infection. apparently the white blood cells were covered in vast amounts of bacteria. Shane said this can be rather common, and after going through a list of things he said it wasn't due to my husbandry and just an unfortunate thing. Septicemia. he said that the infection would not spread through to the other beardies housed with him either.

I aso asked abut a substrate i noticed they used in there beardie enclosure in the waiting room, which shane (the vet) say's he finds best. It's called "breeder's choice" apparently and he say's it found in most supermarkets in the pet food section, and apparently in a green bag. it appears to be pellets of recycled newspaper. So i'm thinking of changing from sand to this. Figure the vet would know best. Just wondering if anyone else uses this and what there experience with it has been.

The only issue i can think of with it, (Which i didn't think of at the time of the call) was that woodies and such would hide under it making it hard for the herps to get to.


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## torry666 (Feb 24, 2010)

So sorry to hear bout Tony, RIP little guy. Hey Brett just to answer your question we use that kind of substrate ours is also in a green bag but called "Back-2-Nature". Never had any probs with it except for because it is from recycled product just check for bright bits of plastic ect. in the mix. Would really only recommend it for sub-adults or older. Like I said we've never had a prob but thats not to say people haven't.


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## lizardjasper (Feb 24, 2010)

So sorry Bret! They really are members of our families, and having one die, whether suddenly like poor little Tony, or after a long and happy life, it breaks our hearts. Know that I am thinking of you.

I use this kitty litter for my cats - it's great stuff, and I've seen many people use it for their herps. But I wouldn't, as I've seen beardies eat it, and that surely can't be a good thing...?
How could Tony have caught this bacteria? Is it common?


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## Bretsta (Feb 24, 2010)

apparently is quite common the vet said. said it's possible that bacteria from the intestines got into the blood stream and multiplied, but couldn't give me an exact answer with the test's that had been ran prior to his passing.

thanks for the support everyone


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## morgs202 (Feb 24, 2010)

Mate, I am so sorry for your loss. Masses of respect to you though for the care and dedication in trying to get him better, not everyone out there would go to those lengths, so seriously: legend. As for the breeders choice, I've been using that and back to nature for a few years now with no ill effects (touch wood). Again, so sorry to hear this news

R.I.P Tony...


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## nicman72 (Feb 24, 2010)

Brett, again my sincerest condolences for you loss. 
Did Shane give you any indication as to what actually brought about this condition - if it wasn't husbandry, was it his environment? I also find that difficult to believe, as you keep other lizards with no issues... 
The reason I ask this, is that Tony's passing (RIP) may be able to serve as a warning to the rest of us dragon owners. As you mentioned, there were no warning signs, and he was your largest and healthiest lizard. So how can we prevent this condition in other beardies?
Thank you for sharing your painful story with us Brett, it's just such a shame that it didn't have a happy ending... Still thinking of Tony...
Nic


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## Chris1 (Feb 24, 2010)

do u know if Tony was put on antibiotics at all?
would be good to know incase anyone has similar symptoms whether or not that would help.


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## JasonL (Feb 24, 2010)

Bretsta said:


> Got a call today, and u could be right cause all they said was that there was a severe blood infection. apparently the white blood cells were covered in vast amounts of bacteria. Shane said this can be rather common, and after going through a list of things he said it wasn't due to my husbandry and just an unfortunate thing. Septicemia. he said that the infection would not spread through to the other beardies housed with him either.
> 
> 
> .



No, well I was wrong.... Septicemia would of been my second guess, it kills alot of beardies, though often if the animal has a wound (however small) to allow the bacteria to enter the blood stream... thus the need to keep them clean....
Breeders Choice is cat litter, it is both good and bad.... it is good if it is replaced regularly, though that can be costly (compaired to replacing sand that should also be replaced regularly), and if it becomes damp will be a haven for bacteria (like under a water bowl if you use one), it is also a great spot for insects to hide and breed as you mentioned...


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## nicman72 (Feb 24, 2010)

JasonL said:


> No, well I was wrong.... Septicemia would of been my second guess, it kills alot of beardies, though often if the animal has a wound (however small) to allow the bacteria to enter the blood stream... thus the need to keep them clean....
> Breeders Choice is cat litter, it is both good and bad.... it is good if it is replaced regularly, though that can be costly (compaired to replacing sand that should also be replaced regularly), and if it becomes damp will be a haven for bacteria (like under a water bowl if you use one), it is also a great spot for insects to hide and breed as you mentioned...


 
So Jason, are you saying that a clean enclosure will eliminate the risk altogether, or just minimise it? Are there any other preventative measures we can take?
Also, what are the symptoms to keep an eye out for re Septicemia, prior to the lizard reaching the point of no return, as happened with Tony? 
This thread has made me realise that this could happen to anyone's beardy by the sounds of it, regardless of size and health, with little to no warning. As Brett said earlier, Tony was a bit lethargic for a few days, but that is not uncommon prior to a shed, and I have observed this behaviour in my own dragons. Is a regular general check-up at the vet going notice any blood issues?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just a bit worried for all the other lizards / lizard keepers out there! I hate seeing threads as sad as this one...
Cheers,
Nic
ps. Sorry if I'm hijacking, Brett.


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## Bretsta (Feb 25, 2010)

nicman72 said:


> So Jason, are you saying that a clean enclosure will eliminate the risk altogether, or just minimise it? Are there any other preventative measures we can take?
> Also, what are the symptoms to keep an eye out for re Septicemia, prior to the lizard reaching the point of no return, as happened with Tony?
> This thread has made me realise that this could happen to anyone's beardy by the sounds of it, regardless of size and health, with little to no warning. As Brett said earlier, Tony was a bit lethargic for a few days, but that is not uncommon prior to a shed, and I have observed this behaviour in my own dragons. Is a regular general check-up at the vet going notice any blood issues?
> Sorry for all the questions, I'm just a bit worried for all the other lizards / lizard keepers out there! I hate seeing threads as sad as this one...
> ...



Don't be sorry mate, your asking good and related questions that everyone would want to know the answer to. the vet descirbed it as just one of those unfortunate things that happens. as mentioned earlier the disease could have come from the intestines into the blood stream, and Jas has raised another possibility of it entering through cuts. (checked Tony over very well, and myself or the vet couldn't find any wounds on the outside visible by eye).

Jas - Tony was placed on antibiotics on Saturday night (same day i took him there) as soon as the results came in from the blood test. Apparently the pathologist told shane to get a second sample of his blood to look for himself at the advancement of the bacteria and apparently described it as amazing. Shane said where you would normally see 1 or a few of the bacteria, Tony had millions. Shane said these things unfortunately often happen to quick to do anything about. Although tony was placed on the antibiotics straight away after the results, it appears that unfortunately, it was just to late :-(


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## Ashme (Apr 6, 2012)

We use the kitty litter u saw In the tank it's great no or less smell and less cleaning sorry to hear about ur beardie I've lost a few special ones myself heartbreaking at times


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## shell477 (Apr 6, 2012)

Ashme, the last post on this thread was in February 2010. 

I'm guessing you've stumbled on to an old thread and didnt realise.


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