# Mass death



## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

I had a strange thing happen, yesterday i went out to my rats (20 odd breeders), all alive and healthy. They are all kept in a shed, so nothing can get in. Anyway i went out there this morning and basically about 80% of my breeders were dead and looked like they'd beeen attacked.
They were all in there own cage (bird cages) so i can't work out what killed them all.
If a mouse got in, could they kill an adult rat?
I'm totally puzzled and not real happy, gotta start my collection from scratch again.


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## Manda1032 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ok, first thing..... was there an adult rat that lived? possibly a big male? 
Or was there any missing? were they squeezed to death. A yearling carpet could get in, kill them all but not eat due to size. I've had that happen before.


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## FNQ_Snake (Jul 12, 2008)

Just a query, is there any a bird or (reptile) could have got in?


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

the only survivors were 3 young adult females that are housed all together because theyre too young for breeding, and my 2 males but they were inside the house that night, because my kids were playing with them.
And i don't get any pythons, well wild ones, down here. 
It's a total mystery to me.
Oh and about half of the babies were killed too, they looked to be squashed.

It was odd because all those that died had babies. It's like they died trying to defend their young.


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## Chrisreptile (Jul 12, 2008)

Manda1032 said:


> Ok, first thing..... was there an adult rat that lived? possibly a big male?
> Or was there any missing? were they squeezed to death. A yearling carpet could get in, kill them all but not eat due to size. I've had that happen before.



Definately no carpets down here.


Thats a strange one liz, i havent heard of this happening before.
A bad batch of food or water?


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

The only thing that could get in would be a wild mouse or maybe a snake but i don't really get any around here.


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

they got fresh water and food daily...........i spent a lot of time each day in with my rats, i kinda liked them...lol


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## grizz (Jul 12, 2008)

Maybe there was a cat burgular!!!!


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## Chrisreptile (Jul 12, 2008)

What sort of food do you use liz?


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm even trying to hand rear the remaining babies......(go on laugh)


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## moosenoose (Jul 12, 2008)

grizz said:


> Maybe there was a cat burgular!!!!



A cat would make the most sense. Kill everything and not eat it! Very typical! 

Could it have been a cat??

(Oh, I just saw you said nothing could get in...scratch that thought then lol)


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

I used Peters Gourmet Rat Food, fresh fruit and vegies (apple, pear, sweet potato, carrot, banana) and i even used to give them pregnant and lactating mums animal milk (divetalac)...lol
They were wormed, i cleaned them out every second day. Fresh water daily.


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

I don't think it would be a cat ( but you never know, sneaky buggers)

Do you think a few wild mice or even a wild rat could've done it?


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## Ewan (Jul 12, 2008)

Could posibly be a large wild rat. I have seen some massive vicious ones. Wild rats seem to be great escape artists and can squeeze through very tight spots. Strange event that has taken place regardless of the culprit/s.


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## mckellar007 (Jul 12, 2008)

if there were any surviving rats in the cage, then that could explain why the rats looked attacked, they are oppurtunistic feeders, so if one dies they will start to eat it. i had a couple of mine die a week or so ago, there are many factors that can come into it, heat, bad food, off water. orjust old age,, although even if they wree all fromthe same litter it would still be very weird to die on the same day....


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## RedEyeGirl (Jul 12, 2008)

poor things i have never heard of this happening b 4


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

mckellar007 said:


> if there were any surviving rats in the cage, then that could explain why the rats looked attacked, they are oppurtunistic feeders, so if one dies they will start to eat it. i had a couple of mine die a week or so ago, there are many factors that can come into it, heat, bad food, off water. orjust old age,, although even if they wree all fromthe same litter it would still be very weird to die on the same day....




The only surviving rats in each seperate cage were their babies.
Each rat had it's own cage, i never put 2 rats together when they have young.


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## ttaipan (Jul 12, 2008)

Years ago i had Breeder rats kept in a back shed. One day i checked the rats and half of my breeders had their snouts hanging off. It was a mystery because the shed was; i thought presumably sealed. Investigating further i found telltales signs of an intruder rat. looking further i found behind a cupboard where a wild rat was entering this shed. Half of the shed floor was concrete & remaining was timber decking.
Nothing can get into my rat containers. But they can stick their snouts out thru the mesh at top of containers.If the wild rat could have got into the containers i have no doubt he would have killed the lot.
My domestic rats were sticking their snouts out in curiosity & Mr. Wild rat was going along biting off there snouts. I trapped the wild rat & thru it the bin. "Never feed wild rats/mice to your Herps".
This happened 3 times over several years & everytime was identical.
Domestic rats & wild rats are two different animals.
Cheers


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## koubee (Jul 12, 2008)

Ahh well that sound exactly like whats happened here. I too thought my shed was totally sealed, but now i am guessing it isn't. I'll be going right through it tomorrow.
Going out to set a trap now....grrr

I'd never feed my herps anything like a wild rat...ewww They only get the best......lol


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## Justie (Jul 12, 2008)

I guess because some survived it kinda takes a heatwave or cold snap out of the scene. Very weird.:?


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## snakecharma (Jul 12, 2008)

could have been a wild rat that did the damage but too all of them sounds strange 

could it be with our really nasty temps in the last few nights that they attacked each other for warmth??


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## wicked reptiles (Jul 12, 2008)

And it couldnt be some sick twisted human?


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## Saz (Jul 12, 2008)

Wild rats and mice do that. I had it happen to mice when I kept them in an outside shed in the UK, and a friend had it happen to his rats, and found the culprit wild rat still at the scene of the crime. It's an odd behaviour, especially to kill almost if not all of the animals, but not uncommon.


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## Hetty (Jul 12, 2008)

I had a rat get into my aviary once, killed all my quails


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## Dipcdame (Jul 12, 2008)

ummmm..... time to call Scully and Mulder???????


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## =bECS= (Jul 13, 2008)

Hetty said:


> I had a rat get into my aviary once, killed all my quails




Ive never heard of that before, but i guess its an excuse to get the rat wire and put it over the aviary! Damn it, ive been so good at putting it off as long as possible too....
Oh well, i hope it rains tomorrow :lol:


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## alex_c (Jul 13, 2008)

i have heard of a similar scenario which was caused by food. But do have a good look around for any signs of a wild rat


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## Renagade (Jul 13, 2008)

at any given times i need to blame a mystery on, i like to point the finger at WASPS. it is capable of such nasty things... and you'd never pic it.


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## Ewan (Jul 13, 2008)

Renagade said:


> at any given times i need to blame a mystery on, i like to point the finger at WASPS. it is capable of such nasty things... and you'd never pic it.


 
Like what are they capable of? I knew there was something suspicios about those things!


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## FNQ_Snake (Jul 13, 2008)

Could it have been a human? I mean we are all looking at animals that may have done this, could someone have a grudge against you? Check the tools in your shed for blood and fur. Maybe somone was being a pain in the rear end?

Just a thought?


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## koubee (Jul 13, 2008)

FNQ_Snake said:


> Could it have been a human? I mean we are all looking at animals that may have done this, could someone have a grudge against you? Check the tools in your shed for blood and fur. Maybe somone was being a pain in the rear end?
> 
> Just a thought?



I certainly hope not............:shock: Given that one of the dead girls pretty much had her ears chewed off, i don't think it would have been done by a human.
No-one can get into my yard either, well they'd have to get past 3 cattle dogs, and then get the key to my shed.
Going out now to check the rat trap.
I too thought it may have been the cold cold nights we've had, but i still have some alive and very healthy.

I'm putting my money on it being a wild rat or mice.


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## FNQ_Snake (Jul 13, 2008)

Cool, I was just putting it out there.


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## koubee (Jul 13, 2008)

Hmmm nothing in the trap, but it had been set off.....so SOMETHING is out there


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## koubee (Jul 13, 2008)

Sending the kids out to play detective and to sprinkle some flour on the floor to get some tracks.......I'll catch this evil ittle bugger.


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## Jewly (Jul 13, 2008)

Wow, that is really strange. I'd be really interested to know what killed the poor little things. Hope you manage to find the culpruit.


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## Hetty (Jul 13, 2008)

becswillbe said:


> Ive never heard of that before, but i guess its an excuse to get the rat wire and put it over the aviary! Damn it, ive been so good at putting it off as long as possible too....
> Oh well, i hope it rains tomorrow :lol:



The rats dug under to get in, so the wire should be into the ground a bit if possible (unless you have one of those professionally built aviaries with flooring and stuff :lol.


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## Whisper2 (Jul 13, 2008)

bit off topicish but my friend and i have always had pet rats. i feed mine on fruit and the petshop rat mix, she fed those two plus meatie bites. 
her rats went feral and either tried to eat you (aggressivly not cute) or anything else in their path. mine is still perfect. my friend has had several rats after her first one went spacky and they all somehow kill themselves. mine is still going strong. 
so we put the meat in the diet down to producing the abnormaly aggressive behaviour. but these are pet shop rats so they might just be inbred to many times. strange though that mine is fine and never aggressive. but even if this were a possibility i doubt your female would be able to chew her own ears off... strange


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## dodgie (Jul 13, 2008)

If you have them in the shed in melbourne in the middle of winter the cold probably killed them.If there were any live still alive towards the end of the night if may have been the live ones that had a go at the others until they all died.Or a mouse may have got in and had a nibble on the dead.

Mice and rats will attack the under dog,so if some are just about dead they will get attacked.


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## Saz (Jul 13, 2008)

Whisper2 said:


> bit off topicish but my friend and i have always had pet rats. i feed mine on fruit and the petshop rat mix, she fed those two plus meatie bites.
> her rats went feral and either tried to eat you (aggressivly not cute) or anything else in their path. mine is still perfect. my friend has had several rats after her first one went spacky and they all somehow kill themselves. mine is still going strong.
> so we put the meat in the diet down to producing the abnormaly aggressive behaviour. but these are pet shop rats so they might just be inbred to many times. strange though that mine is fine and never aggressive. but even if this were a possibility i doubt your female would be able to chew her own ears off... strange



Apparently some can develop overly aggressive behaviour when older, which is genetic. Getting males neutered can help solve that problem if they are pets and you feel so inclined. They shouldn't be bred anyway, not a nice trait to carry onto offspring.


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## Sturdy (Jul 13, 2008)

Id say it would be a wild rat..

we have 4 laying hens an we keep their seed an hay in a sealed cupboard inside a lock up shed.

an the lil buggers just chewed a whole in the bottom of the cupboard an started making a family in the hay an eating the seed.


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## koubee (Jul 13, 2008)

SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I found a dirty big feral rat, horrible big browish/black thing. It was swiftly disposed of....
I'm now redesigning my rat cage set up.


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## The Reptile Outlet (Jul 13, 2008)

Good to see that the problem has been solved. All the best.
Joy


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## dodgie (Jul 13, 2008)

koubee said:


> SOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I found a dirty big feral rat, horrible big browish/black thing. It was swiftly disposed of....
> I'm now redesigning my rat cage set up.




...


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## mysnakesau (Jul 13, 2008)

It would not have been wild mice that did that. It would be the other way around - your rats would kill intruding mice. Somebody else recently put up a post about mass deaths and beleived they rats had a big canabalism spaz. He could not come up with any other explanation. If it was an intruding animal the rodents cages would have been tipped over except wild rats are very cunning and can do their damage without leaving any foot prints.


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## mysnakesau (Jul 13, 2008)

Oops! too late, I didn't see your resolution post


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## Carpetcleaner (Jul 13, 2008)

Wild rats!!! That's shocking!!! Who would have thought. Oh well, at least we all know now and anyone breeding their own mice/rats can be aware.
Well done for finding out what it was.


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## ttaipan (Jul 13, 2008)

As i said earlier, wild rats & domestic rats are 2 different animals. Good that you got it. During colder months wild rats seek refuge eg. your shed especially if you keep rats. Your rats will attract them like a magnet.


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## hallet (Jul 13, 2008)

have you thought that if a cat could get into the shed may have clawed at them but couldnt reach them but the rats would die from stress. 
or as already stated another wild rat or a escapee may have been drawn to them from the smell thay produce and attracted them to the rats. or thirdly though in vic really dont get pythons in the wild but do have browns , tigers etc 
i use to keep mouse cage catchers ( they could hold up to 15 odd in one night that is a record a friend had once on there poultry farm) to catch any wild mice lured to free food well in my rat shed one day found in my mouse cage catcher a caught 4 ft brown snake with mice in belly and one dead in cage but what goes into these cages cant get back out .
so maybe you did have a slithering visitor as you should know they can get in any gap and get out


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## koubee (Jul 14, 2008)

I thoguht of the possibility of it being a scaley visitor as we do have copperheads around but i thought it would be too cold. Anyway i caught the offending visitor......................a wild rat!!


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## Fireflyshuffle (Jul 14, 2008)

very good!! i cant belive it was a wild rat! learn somthing new everyday. so can i ask what is their aim then?like dotey go in on a rampage and just like slaugter them??or does he just stress them?im more intrested to know how it got in your actually cages?if that got in, wouldnt yours have gotten out?


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## Kimbully (Jul 14, 2008)

I'm guessing he tried getting into cages and the females got wounded defending their litters through the bars and then died of stress and/or injuries.

Koubee, even if you find how it got in, I would keep a couple of traps permanently set up. A wild rat chewed through a solid plastic tub in our shed to get the guinea pig feed! Little buggers. Amusingly, a mouse fell into that hole and couldn't get out of the feed. While we were working out what to do with it, my sisters dog MaltxShit) jumped in and ate it!

Kim


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## FNQ_Snake (Jul 14, 2008)

Whoo hoo, nice job. At least you know what it was.


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## xenathepython (Jul 14, 2008)

Thats good


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## richardsc (Jul 18, 2008)

i reckon the wild rat was interested in hybridising,and the lab rats were not to happy,being anti hybrids so a fight broke out,pros and cons were exchanged,lol,glad u caught the culprit,but bank on there being more,i found a sizable wild one in my herp shed one time,it had a broken back and was found struggling in the land mullet and eastern bearded enclosure,i wondered if perhaps the lizards beat the crap out of it,as they were out basking,but dispatched the rat and all lizards were a ok


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