# My “diamond” - Should I be annoyed?



## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Hey guys,

Well, I contacted the breeder of my first snake (an Atherton) at the start of the year and asked him if I could buy a diamond off him, to which I did… I was told he was a baby high yellow diamond and I saw the parents in the flesh and they were gorgeous

Now only over the last week have I learnt about this whole “intergrade” and “port mac” business and Mrsshep77 from on here met my little guy for the first time last night and she said he isn’t a real diamond, but simply a port mac

Now, should I be annoyed at the breeder for misinforming me?


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

If you saw the parents and you were happy they were diamonds and the breeder says there diamonds, then why just because someone else says that its a port mac (which imo is not sub standard to a diamond) do you think that the breeder is lying?


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## Kyro (Oct 1, 2007)

No you shouldn't because the breeder may not be aware that he is selling PM's. After the recent thread on natural intergrades I think there will be quite a few people unsure what they are actually breeding now, just my opinion


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

OR - as Donk pointed out - he MAY have sold you a perfect 'Diamond' - I have yet to see a photo of a Diamond that someone hasn't called an Intergrade or Hybrid...


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

Are you talking about the diamond you were going to sell in another thread? the one bred by Greg P.

If you are than imo it is 100% a diamond.


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah thats the one I was talking about
Hmmm, confusing


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## redline (Oct 1, 2007)

Some pics would help.


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

I dont know what is more danger too our hobby, the fact that "the Morelia spilota complex can be so eaisaliy hybridised" or the " self proclaimed Diamond experts running around putting labels on every python that has an odd shaped rosette of head pattern"


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## Kyro (Oct 1, 2007)

I didn't mean that to sound like you should doubt the breeder, I agree that if you bought them as diamonds then thats what they are


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## Miss B (Oct 1, 2007)

I'd be livid, if he told you it was a pure Diamond and then sold you a Port Mac you have been taken for a ride. Same thing almost happened to me, until mrsshep pointed out that the 'Diamond' I was looking at was probably a Port Mac (thanks Mell!!). Of course, the seller was trying to flog it off as a pure Diamond and me being a newbie didn't know the difference. Not cool 

Then again, maybe these people just don't know what their own animals are. This is what happens when people breed hybrids or intergrades and sell them as pure... someone else buys the animal, then breeds it, sells it's offspring believing it's pure aswell. It's a vicious cycle


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

Miss B said:


> . Same thing almost happened to me, until mrsshep pointed out that the 'Diamond' I was looking at was probably a Port Mac (thanks Mell!!). Of course, the seller was trying to flog it off as a pure Diamond and me being a newbie didn't know the difference. Not cool
> 
> Then again, maybe these people just don't know what their own animals are.


 

No offfence but what makes mrsshep an expert on other peoples animals, why would respectable breeders know less about there animals than she does?


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## Just_Joshin (Oct 1, 2007)

Pics Please


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

Can you post a pic ??
It is very hard to tell , and this is the problem with diamonds .
but if you were happy with it and viewed the parents , then you really have no argument IMO as you will see on here every second diamond photo posted is questioned or this is a huge amount of confusion as to what it is .


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## Miss B (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> No offfence but what makes mrsshep an expert on other peoples animals, why would respectable breeders know less about there animals than she does?


 
What makes you think it was a respectable breeder?

This was on RDU, I have no idea as to the integrity of the breeder. There are plenty of shonky people out there and I, being a noob, did not even know what the heck a 'Port Mac' was until fairly recently.


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## Kyro (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I dont know what is more danger too our hobby, the fact that "the Morelia spilota complex can be so eaisaliy hybridised" or the " self proclaimed Diamond experts running around putting labels on every python that has an odd shaped rosette of head pattern"



I see what your saying mate


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

I didnt want this to turn into a **** fight guys - will get pics up in a sec...

Plus I would trust Mrsshep77's judgement, she knows what she is talking about


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## mungus (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> I dont know what is more danger too our hobby, the fact that "the Morelia spilota complex can be so eaisaliy hybridised" or the " self proclaimed Diamond experts running around putting labels on every python that has an odd shaped rosette of head pattern"



Very, very, very well said Donk.
I've seen them with perfect rosette's come from parents with " zig zag " markings and vise versa.
So do we label on looks alone ????


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

*Miss B* - Surely it is just as dangerous trusting one persons 'opinion' of a snakes lineage as it is trusting a breeder's description...?


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## cockney red (Oct 1, 2007)

*pics*


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

These are the only pics I have...

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62906


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

Miss B said:


> I'd be livid, if he told you it was a pure Diamond and then sold you a Port Mac you have been taken for a ride. Same thing almost happened to me, until mrsshep pointed out that the 'Diamond' I was looking at was probably a Port Mac (thanks Mell!!). Of course, the seller was trying to flog it off as a pure Diamond and me being a newbie didn't know the difference. Not cool
> 
> Then again, maybe these people just don't know what their own animals are. This is what happens when people breed hybrids or intergrades and sell them as pure... someone else buys the animal, then breeds it, sells it's offspring believing it's pure aswell. It's a vicious cycle



Why couldn't the person who is proclaiming themself as a diamond doctor be wrong? This is the gripe that i had on the other thread. Everyone seems to think they know exactly what kind of diamond down to specific locality just from seeing a hatchy. If you saw the parents and they looked like diamonds, the breeder told you they were diamonds and you WERE happy with your purchase why would you suddenly decide you're unhappy just because one person thinks what you have is something that it probably isn't? 

Mel probably thinks she is doing you a big favour in telling you this but unless she is the breeder of these animals or has somekind of dna test to show exactly what it is her word is no more than opinion and should be taken as exactly that, opinion. NOT fact.


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## Miss B (Oct 1, 2007)

Aslan said:


> *Miss B* - Surely it is just as dangerous trusting one persons 'opinion' of a snakes lineage as it is trusting a breeder's description...?


 
Fair enough. It's not something I wanted to take a chance on anyway. Not prepared to fork out that kind of money for a pure Diamond and risk getting a Port Mac. What if it was really a Port Mac? What if I bought it, then bred it to a pure Diamond in a couple years time and flogged the hatchlings off as pure Diamond? 

IMHO, it's not worth the risk. When I requested photographs of the parents, the seller would not send me any. Sounds a bit dodgy to me... and as I said, this was just an add from RDU and I have never heard of the person selling the animal, I have no idea as to the integrity of the breeder.


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

At that age there is NO way you would tell regardless - It looks like a cracking little baby Diamond to me - and to be honest I considered buying it until I reealised you were unwilling to freight...


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

Maybe Mel is just trying to knock some of the value off your snake so she can buy it cheap :lol: (Joking)


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## mungus (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> These are the only pics I have...
> 
> http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62906



Dont know what all the fuss is about, as both you and Mell refer to the hatchie as a
"diamond", therefore its a diamond !!!
Cheers everybody :lol:


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

No offence to MrsShep as i am aware she does know her diamonds ..... but this is part of the problem with diamonds ....... one person "opinion" has no put doubt into your mind , and will now do the same to any one whos reads this and knows this particular breeder .
I am not saying she is right or wrong , but if you viewed the parents ans thought them to be diamonds , then brought the snake believing it to be a diamond then there's a good chance it is ....


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> I didnt want this to turn into a **** fight guys - will get pics up in a sec...
> 
> Plus I would trust Mrsshep77's judgement, she knows what she is talking about


 
you are willing to take Mrssheps word over Greg Prostamo's word about his own animals :shock:


How many years keeping experiance and how many species has mrsshep bred over the years?


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## Just_Joshin (Oct 1, 2007)

Aslan said:


> At that age there is NO way you would tell regardless - It looks like a cracking little baby Diamond to me - and to be honest I considered buying it until I reealised you were unwilling to freight...


 
Well Said. Baby diamonds almost NEVER look good as hatchies or juvies and are usually a very drab colour of blacks/browns/tans. They do colour up as the get older though. I know of and have seen a clutch of babies diamonds grow up from hatchies over the last 6-8 months or so and they all looked VERY similar to the one in the picture and YES they definately came from Pure diamond parents. However, You should see how some of the hatchies have turned out now, They look FABULOUS!!! I'll try and get some pictures of them later this week and post them up.


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## Miss B (Oct 1, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Mell probably thinks she is doing you a big favour in telling you this but unless she is the breeder of these animals or has somekind of dna test to show exactly what it is her word is no more than opinion and should be taken as exactly that, opinion. NOT fact.


 
She _was _doing me a big favour! And I did take it as opinion, and _I chose to trust her opinion_. For pete's sake, can you guys please leave Mell out of this? I'm not sure you realise this, although I've tried to point it out several times already, but I really don't have the foggiest about pythons. You could show me a photo of an Atherton and tell me it was a Coastal Carpet, and I would probably believe you. Seriously. 

As I said before, what if it _was_ a Port Mac? What if I bought it, bred it to a pure Diamond in a couple years time, and flogged off the hatchlings as pure Diamonds? IMHO, it's just not worth the risk.


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## FAY (Oct 1, 2007)

There is such a variation in pure diamond patterns.
I personally don't think ANYBODY knows what is really out there and what different patterns there are.

I have seen diamonds here that you would swear were part carpet. Carpets aren't supposed to be found down this far...so go figure!

Storm in a teacup!


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

I mean, I LOVE my little baby, he is absolutely gorgeous and wont bite and has a beautiful temperament and I know he will turn out to be a very high yellow because I have seen his parents in real life
BUT, I have just had nothing but praise for the breeder of both my babies and am just concerned that he has taken me for a ride knowing I am still only new to all of this


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## MoreliaMatt (Oct 1, 2007)

sounds like the typical "hypo" debate too...... everyone has their own opinions on them as they do with diamonds and intergrades.....


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

I shouldnt have even bothered asking, I dont appreciate people turning this into a **** fight


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## MoreliaMatt (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> BUT, I have just had nothing but praise for the breeder of both my babies and am just concerned that he has taken me for a ride knowing I am still only new to all of this



sit tight, i dont think you have anything to worry about....
try to completely forget about what mell said and you'll be fine.....
its not like you bought from a dodgy breeder....


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

does it look just like these guys ??
These are from pure diamonds ,the grandparents of these were wild caught back a long time ago .
But i have still had people question them , even one of the most vocal experts on diamonds .
form what i can tell in the pic you posted i would say diamond ....they look very much like mine any way .


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

He is alot more pale than yours dickyknee and he has lines for about 2/3rds of his body rather than rosettes


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> I shouldnt have even bothered asking, I dont appreciate people turning this into a **** fight


 

The only **** fight part of this is someone with little experiance makeing pretty serious acusations about a well known breeders animals.


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## cockney red (Oct 1, 2007)

*As others have said, if parents look like dps, then that lovely little bootlace is a dp.*


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## Just_Joshin (Oct 1, 2007)

Miss B said:


> As I said before, what if it _was_ a Port Mac? What if I bought it, bred it to a pure Diamond in a couple years time, and flogged off the hatchlings as pure Diamonds? IMHO, it's just not worth the risk.


 
Ok answer me this! When does a port mac stop becoming a port mac?? How fair either side of the known range do you have to go??? What if a port mac specimen that was located on the "outer edges" of port mac locality decides to head a little into "pure" diamond territory and breeds with a "pure" diamond. The little babies from this love triangle then grow up big and head even further south into "pure" diamond territory and breeds with a good looking "pure" diamond specimen. Then these 2 have babies that pop out looking like normal little diamond hatchies.

How are you EVER going to know they are decended from port mac or even that the parents decended from port macs??

If you ask me, with diamonds it all comes down to personal taste as to what you like the look off. I have seen wild diamond specimens around where i live (Wollongong) which is well into "pure" diamond territory come in many different colours. I've seen dark bellies, light bellies, yellow bellies, Nearly all black specimens, high yellow specimens, average specimens, Ones with nice perfect rosettes and one with screwed up rosettes.


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> He is alot more pale than yours dickyknee and he has lines for about 2/3rds of his body rather than rosettes



Sorry the pics are when they were very young , they will be very dark when first born and mine are lighter now too ..


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

*Junglecarpet *- Browse this gallery - http://www.bullockphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=680 - as well as seeing some AMAZING reptile photography you will see the vast difference in appearance between Diamonds...

...and before you get too annoyed with the way this thread has gone, consider this, should the breeder be annoyed that this thread was started...?


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## steve6610 (Oct 1, 2007)

i think everybodys missing the point, mel asked mrsshep for her opinion, she stated that it looked more like a pmc then a diamond, she never said it WAS a pmc, 
i know for a fact that this diamond has rosets down it's back that are joined, how about a pic of the back on the diamond, 

i think everybody is jumping up and down about somebodys right to have an opinion, mrsshep never said that to start this fight, it was just her opinion, 

now the one miss b is talking about was shown to me and i told mrsshep it looked more like a pmc then a diamond, i also told her $550.00 was a bit to many $$$$$ for a yearling unsexed diamond that had large rosets, i told her to tell the buyer ( who i didn't know who it was ) that they could get a better looking diamond for less $$$$$$$$$$$$

i think everybody should take a breath and relize that what mrsshep said was in a privite home and not to be posted on the public forums................


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 1, 2007)

Ok before everyone keeps slinging MUD my way I thought I should intervene and EXPLAIN myself!!!

Last night was the first time I'd seen her hatchy "diamond" in person and the pics that Mel has just put up DO NOT show the markings that put doubt in my mind! All down his back the rosettes are joined in lines... pretty much from behind the head! 
I only gave my OPINION to both Mel & Miss B (who's situation I spoke to with other people as well, it wasnt just ME saying it wasn't).... I also told Mel that this was only my opinion and even it did turn out to be a port mac he's still going to be a stunning little snake! And I said IF he turns out to be a port mac.... not once did I ever say he WAS a port mac and Mel can clarify that!

I have NEVER made out I'm a diamond "expert" and I am always learning new stuff and wanting to learn as much off the "educated" people on this site but we were discussing the current events with the confusion and clarification over diamonds, which still amazes me why there is such a major issue with it, but seeing her little guy made me point out the coastal markers that were raised in the other "Diamond Expert" thread just last week!

So before everyone thinks I'm going around self-proclaiming I'm a diamond expert make sure the facts are straight!!!


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Was I just supposed to sit back and take it and think that I have been taken for a ride? I would prefer to know that I havent been than to wonder for the rest of my life


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> He is alot more pale than yours dickyknee and he has lines for about 2/3rds of his body rather than rosettes


 
Paler probably means you have got a cracking high yellow baby - generally that is the case - and something to be happy about, not sceptical...


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

What is this?


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

I can clarify everything that Mell just said, I know it was her opinion and because of that opinion, it put doubt in my mind, so I just wanted to ask to see what other people thought

I will try get a pic of the lines down his back and see what everyone thinks then

Im sorry Mell


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

Very good points Steve and i never meant any offence to Mrsshepp in any of my comments .

and maybe this should not have been posted then .....

"""Now only over the last week have I learnt about this whole “intergrade” and “port mac” business and Mrsshep77 from on here met my little guy for the first time last night and she said he isn’t a real diamond, but simply a port mac"""""


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

As I have said many times before, I am new to owning snakes and this is my first "diamond" and I didnt even know there was such a thing as a port mac until last week!


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> BUT, I have just had nothing but praise for the breeder of both my babies and am just concerned that he has taken me for a ride knowing I am still only new to all of this



So why would you start to doubt the breeder just because of one persons opinion? Asking the question "is it a hybrid/intergrade?" will always result in about a 50/50 split on wether it is pure or not. All asking the question is going to do is make you more and more doubtful.

And let me ask you this, if you do decide that it is a 'port mac' are you going to sell it as a 'port mac'? Even though you bought it as a diamond? 

Think about how much damage doing something like that would do to the captive gene pool should someone want to breed it to another port mac.


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

*Junglecarpet* - Perhaps it was the title of your thread that confused a few people regarding your intention with it...


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

PLEASE CLOSE AND DELETE THIS THREAD - its turned into a ****fight and all I was asking was a simple questions for *****s sake


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Who said I was breeding them :S


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> What is this?



Looks like a snake donk ...


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> all I was asking was a simple questions for *****s sake


 
HAHAHAHAH There is nothing simple about the Morelia spilota complex :lol:


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## Ramsayi (Oct 1, 2007)

If its not a diamond then what is it? A port mac or a hybrid?


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> PLEASE CLOSE AND DELETE THIS THREAD - its turned into a ****fight and all I was asking was a simple questions for *****s sake



No offence but you did not just ask a question , you brought doubt into the breeders animals and dragged mrsshepp into it by telling us what she told you in a private conversation ...

what did you think would happen ??? this is a "diamond" thread after all


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Well offence HAS been taken
I am sick of people who think they know everything paying out the little people like me

I didnt want the doubt in my mind, so I posted a thread
Its as SIMPLE as that


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> Now, should I be annoyed at the breeder for misinforming me?



Answer to this q's imo is no. You should talk to the breeder about your concerns and take the advice you get off the internet with a grain of salt.


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

I cant get in contact with him, he changed his number


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 1, 2007)

Mel don't be sorry.... we both know what was said last night.... nobody else was there!
I was never trying to slander the breeder either as I have a jungle from his as well!!

Dickynee her diamond does look similar to yours BUT it doesn't have the rosettes... they are pretty much all joined in lines down it's back...

Pugsly started a thread last week discussing how to tell the difference between diamonds and port mac's and it was clearly stated in there that rosettes joined in a line plus irragular patterning of the single rosettes were major indicators of a port mac!!! Mel & I were simply discussing this last night and I pointed these out to her on her little guy!

I for one think there are some better looking port macs than so called "pure" diamonds out there and would pay a hell of a lot more for some of them too!!!


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> I cant get in contact with him, he changed his number


 
Im sure somone can email him and show him this thread, im sure he'll be stoked.


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## cockney red (Oct 1, 2007)

*shoosssshhhhhh!Dont mention Diamonds......*


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

Will you just pi$$ off? How else was I supposed to find out the truth, not that I really have found out at all


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

cockney red said:


> *shoosssshhhhhh!Dont mention Diamonds......*



I did, but i think i got away with it.


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> Will you just pi$$ off? How else was I supposed to find out the truth, not that I really have found out at all



TALK TO THE BREEDER!!!!

Not people on the internet (including me) that probably don't know their bottom from their elbow.


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

*Junglecarpet *- Obviously it wasn't your intention - but the way this thread was started was not merely as simple as a question being asked - obviously some things get lost in translation over the net and on forums - but this thread came across like a gripe regarding the integrity of a breeder...

...This generally is the way Diamond threads go when a question like this is asked but I really think it came across the wrong way - you have stated you have taken offence - but I think the person who should (and likely would) be most offended would be the breeder...this question should have been brought up with him privately before being placed on an open forum...

...If it is any comfort, from the photos you have provided I think you have a gorgeous snake there - if you saw the parents and were happy with their lineage you should be happy - and if it helps, check that gallery I posted - it shows a variety of different Diamonds that may help allay your concerns...

...If you decide you don't want it PM me - I would be happy with a cracker little Diamond like that (provided I could convince the missus ) ...


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

In no way was it intended on having a gripe at the breeder, as you can probably tell in other threads and posts from me, all I have is praise for him becuse he is AMAZING at what he does and I couldnt be happier with my atherton and Ditty (my diamond port mac )

If I had of known that this thread would turn into what it has, I wouldnt have started it

But thanks Aslan, I love my little guy and I am never getting rid of him!!!


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> Will you just pi$$ off? How else was I supposed to find out the truth, not that I really have found out at all


 

No need to be nasty, im just giving my opinion like you asked.

Now you can belive a reputable breeder that you yourself said " who you have nothing but praise for" or you can doubt his credability because of somone elses guess.

being nasty and telling people to pee off just because your aunt flo is visiting, is not a nice way to come across on a family forum. :lol:


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## Aslan (Oct 1, 2007)

*Junglecarpet *- I might also add - in the next few years you will see striped Diamonds hitting the market from VERY reputable sources (that debate is best left to another thread though) - so certainly don't think it's not possible...


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## cockney red (Oct 1, 2007)

*Cant beat a carpet thread. "Dont get bitter and twisted".*


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## waruikazi (Oct 1, 2007)

I wish my threads got this much attention.


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> No need to be nasty, im just giving my opinion like you asked.
> 
> Now you can belive a reputable breeder that you yourself said " who you have nothing but praise for" or you can doubt his credability because of somone elses guess.
> 
> being nasty and telling people to pee off just because your aunt flo is visiting, is not a nice way to come across on a family forum. :lol:


 
Because aunt flo is visiting!? Are you serious!?!?!
Your blaming my reactions on that time of the month? For your information, it is nowhere near that time and I am just not impressed with you at all


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> Because aunt flo is visiting!? Are you serious!?!?!
> Your blaming my reactions on that time of the month? For your information, it is nowhere near that time and I am just not impressed with you at all


 

Oh.... so your like this all of the time:|


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

No, you just need to stop being a keyboard warrior


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## cement (Oct 1, 2007)

Great thread guys, lovin all the diamond/ intergrade/ hybrid conspiracy theories goin round at the moment.

I think the bottom line is that you should talk to the breeder , BEFORE you buy and ask things like locality etc?
then go away and think, make a decision buy or not. If you are worried that someone else might buy it while you are thinking about it, give him a deposit of 5-10% to hold for you for how ever long.

The parents are the answer. Youve seen them, you liked.

No, you should not be annoyed with the breeder, you should be thankful that you as a newbie have learnt a valuable lesson and gained experience, at purchasing snakes.

I would be happy with that snake and looking forward to its mature colours.


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## cockney red (Oct 1, 2007)

*Peoples sense of humour seem to get tested in DPthreads. Cant understand it meself.*


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

junglecarpet said:


> No, you just need to stop being a keyboard warrior


 

You quote me anywhere in this thread where i am being a keyboard warrior, i have given you nothing but helpfull information.

You are making yourself look very ignorent now, maybe you should just settle down a little and put a hot water bottle on that tummy of yours.


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## dickyknee (Oct 1, 2007)

Just want to apologise to Junglecarpet , i did offend her and it was not my intention at all ......


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## junglecarpet (Oct 1, 2007)

da_donkey said:


> You quote me anywhere in this thread where i am being a keyboard warrior, i have given you nothing but helpfull information.
> 
> You are making yourself look very ignorent now, maybe you should just settle down a little and put a hot water bottle on that tummy of yours.


 
If I was being ignorant, I would have not posted this thread and ignored what Mrsshep77 has discussed with me

Dude you seriously need to grow up and stop blaming everything on a womans periods, its rather lame

Thank you to Dicky Knee, I appreciate his apology


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## FAY (Oct 1, 2007)

People tend to forget one thing....99% of the time ...that breeder has bought their adults as hatchlings off someone else.......

The person they bought it off has said they are pure diamonds....
You can only go on their word............if it tends to go otherwise...it is no fault of the current breeder........they are only passing on what they have been led to believe!!!!!


Only the person who caught the original animal in the wild really knows the truth to a certain extent lol !!!!


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## steve6610 (Oct 1, 2007)

mel you need to take a backward step, what mrsshep told you in privite should have stayed privite, all your doing now is draging it on and pulling not only your name down but also mrsshep, 

just leave the thread alone and it will die, the more you respond the more it will get nasty, i should know.........

just learn from your misstake and leave privite things in privite, or at least don't use others names..............

not having a go at you, trust me i know how things happen,
just ask mell and she will fill you in.................


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

Hey look if you want i will email Greg myself now for you and get him to check out this thread so that he can clear things up for you.....i just hope you dont want anymore snakes from him :lol:


Well said Pony.


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## Aussie Python Lover (Oct 1, 2007)

god this is draggin on a bit zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

hey donk, that looks like a pure diamond from daniel gilbertsons pair , am i right?


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## da_donkey (Oct 1, 2007)

wil said:


> hey donk, that looks like a pure diamond from daniel gilbertsons pair , am i right?


 

Spot on wil


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

im sick of this whole intergrade crap, i tell you!
looking good donk


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 1, 2007)

wil said:


> im sick of this whole intergrade crap, i tell you!
> looking good donk


 
I couldn't agree more Wil.... I am sooo in love with diamonds BUT I have seen some awesome port mac's!!!
I can't understand why there is such an issue with them as we have different locale's with jungles and coastals... WHY is it sooooooo different to diamonds???

I would certainly pay as much for a port mac as I would a diamond if they were just as gorgeous as each other!! Why do we have to make such a drama over the difference????


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

i just cant see how, because a diamond isnt in its proposed locality then its an intergrade
and just because its doesnt look like your normal everyday diamond then its an intergrade
however came up with this whole intergrade thing,they need to be shot
thanks wil


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah that's right... a port mac is just a different locale diamond... same as a jungle from atherton or palmerston!!!
It's just not right!!!!


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## dazza74 (Oct 1, 2007)

hey jungle carpet mine looked the same when i got her just over 3 years ago and has turned out beautiful so dont stress to much just wait until it colors up more or if you are still unsure you could sell to me 
how much did you pay for it?


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

he a pic of one of my diamonds when he was a bub and now, 9 months


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## Australis (Oct 1, 2007)

wil said:


> however came up with this whole intergrade thing,they need to be shot
> thanks wil



Im sure someone will correct me if im wrong here..
But i believe it was Eric Worrell who coined the "intergrade" term for the _Morelia spilota_ found in North Eastern NSW.

He is no longer with us Wil.


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## sha_luvz_pythons (Oct 1, 2007)

look u guys ive just joined this thread(lol) 
and i know almost nothin about diamond but i dont think the original thread starter's python was 1 (from the descreption)
soz bout my spelling.
correct me if im wrong


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## sha_luvz_pythons (Oct 1, 2007)

(correct me if im wrong about the python, not my spelling!) lol


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## mrsshep77 (Oct 1, 2007)

sha_luvz_pythons said:


> look u guys ive just joined this thread(lol)
> and i know almost nothin about diamond but i dont think the original thread starter's python was 1 (from the descreption)
> soz bout my spelling.
> correct me if im wrong


 
One what????


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## sha_luvz_pythons (Oct 1, 2007)

diamond python
LOL


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## sha_luvz_pythons (Oct 1, 2007)

i g2g 
cya
(great thread)
Sha


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 1, 2007)

Errrrmmmmm Wil do you even understand at all what a natural intergrade is or are you just gonna jump on the uneducated hybrid bandwagon???

I think this thread has got way out of hand and that the breeder should've been contacted, and yes it was obviously worded wrong by junglecarpet.

Unfortunately Mell's name got dragged through this as a PERSONAL opinion from a friend. For the record I will trust your personal opinion on Miss Erwins best hatchie  LOL


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

ive heard more than enough talks and peoples opinions about the "I" things to no what they are swing, im just over the whole "I" thing as are alot of people


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 1, 2007)

I'll stand by my original statement.


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

which was?


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 1, 2007)

swingonthespiral said:


> Errrrmmmmm Wil do you even understand at all what a natural intergrade is or are you just gonna jump on the uneducated hybrid bandwagon???


 
A question is a usually a statement in disguise :lol:


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

so your saying i dont know what an intergrade is?
go swing on a salmon!


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## caustichumor (Oct 1, 2007)

Clones.. The Way Of The Future.


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 1, 2007)

Swing on a salmon????? LMAO......And a little bit fiesty there aren't we???? 

And no i think i'm leaning more towards the last part of that question.

You're signature had been bugging me for a while I guess this thread isn't the right place to discuss it.


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

LMAO salmon was the only thing i could think of that started with "s"


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## swingonthespiral (Oct 1, 2007)

Sausage???

LMAO just had the worst vision.....


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## Tsubakai (Oct 1, 2007)

As others have stated, you should discuss your concerns with the breeder. If you need his contact details I'm sure someone can PM them to you.

All this debate makes me even happier that I don't keep diamonds or NSW intergrades.


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## whatsup (Oct 1, 2007)

Greg Prostamo has a very good reputation and has been breeding pythons far longer than most of us have been around.i've had people tell me that one of my diamonds is'nt pure and it came from southern cross. imo southern cross has some of the best diamonds around. as far as price goes i'm sure there is a few of us that have paid much more than the going rate for a snake.i know i have and would be willing to pay the same again for the right animals.


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## urodacus_au (Oct 1, 2007)

If you dont want to hear the answer, dont ask the question....pretty simple really. You cant ask a question on an open forum then crack the crappers when you dont get the answers you were looking for.
The best you can do in this hobby is buy off people you trust or alternatively respected people in the game. Even then theres no 100% guarantee unless that person pulled the bloody thing out of the bush himself.

Jordan


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## GSXR_Boy (Oct 1, 2007)

Anyone for popcorn?


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## wil (Oct 1, 2007)

already eating some gsxr_boy
have been eating it since this thread started, it should be deleted as it was asked previously by the starter of the thread


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## dazza74 (Oct 1, 2007)

hey wil better get a beer to wash the popcorn down seems like its going to be a long day


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## GSXR_Boy (Oct 1, 2007)

wil said:


> already eating some gsxr_boy


 


dazza74 said:


> hey wil better get a beer to wash the popcorn down seems like its going to be a long day


 

The popcorn is to salty wil!!
Better wash it down with dazza's beers.


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## ihaveherps (Oct 1, 2007)

This thread is a killer....

For all the effort that has gone into explaining Port Macs, as an intermediate form, seems to have just bounced off some peoples thick craniums....

If the Port Mac tag is just lobbed onto and diamond that doesnt conform to the norm, there are some very confused people out there.... I mean, to straight out say that the animal in question was a port mac, and not even raise the possibility that it it was a hybrid, is a very dangerous way to label in regards to polluting another pure form gene pool. 

I personally dont have any opinions on the animal in question, especially if it is indeed a Prostramo diamond, then it is what he says....


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