# Zombie rat kills snake



## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

A friend donked a rat, threw it in, then left to do a few things.. The result being that the rat turned out to be a Zombie, awoke from the dead and ate the Diamond Pythons brains...

Let this be a lesson that feeding frozen is the only way to ensure Zombie rats do not eat our snakes brains.






By stickytounge at 2011-05-03


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## Snakewoman (May 3, 2011)

That's horrible, poor snake


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

What kind of a wuss python lets a rat get away with that sort of s##t.


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## Banjo (May 3, 2011)

Dam he should have hit the rat a bit harder. Frozen and thawed for me. Your mate must be devistated.


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

He smashed the rat pretty good, to the point it appeared dead, It won't be eating heads of things anymore though.


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## Darkhorse (May 3, 2011)

Ugh... I like my mice and rats frozen and sealed in little packs... + above is the reasons why. Poor snake!


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## Snakewise84 (May 3, 2011)

so whats he going to do now


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## Pinoy (May 3, 2011)

I would have terrible things to that rat after that!

So sad


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

Snakewise84 said:


> so whats he going to do now


 
Throw it in the bin i guess and not feed the others fresh killed?


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## PythonLegs (May 3, 2011)

The rat had just been smashed and tossed into its worst nightmare- I dont think you can blame the rat for fighting for its life. Only one target of blame in this scenario.


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## smigga (May 3, 2011)

You would think that the snake would fight back when the rat started eating it wouldn't you?


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## Recharge (May 3, 2011)

yea, I'm sorry but your story doesn't quite cut it, for a rat to do THAT kind of damage, it was left in there for at least a full day or more, a rat (or anything) that's been smashed in the head will not be wanting to eat for QUITE some time to say the least.
no one with any sense throws a fresh kill in and doesn't watch it until it's gone.

I'm sure there's far more to this story than we've been told and led to believe.

and why would you even SHOW that kind of picture on here? you could have told the story without inflicting shock on unsuspecting reptile lovers.

*shakes head in shame*


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## Chicken (May 3, 2011)

I thought this was fake until i read the comments..?


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## Pinoy (May 3, 2011)

It is a diamond though, if it's anything like mine and my mates one, it doesn't really attack its food, it kinda slowly approaches it and casually eats it, as if it were in slow motion. 

Maybe that one was like that and got ambushed?


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

sammi10 said:


> The rat had just been smashed and tossed into its worst nightmare- I dont think you can blame the rat for fighting for its life. Only one target of blame in this scenario.



Yeah I know, thats why we dont feed live but youd expect a bit more from a healthy diamond. I think Recharge is onto something, thats a fair bit of head to be eaten in the time it takes to "do a few things".


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## Snakewise84 (May 3, 2011)

to me it looks to be alive still looking at the body, just the way it is sitting. ya sure ya mates not one of the special affects artist.


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## $NaKe PiMp (May 3, 2011)

well at least we can refer back to this thread when talking about why you dont feed live or just belt rat on head and throw in then walk away for likeat least a DAY.
poor husbandry at its worst


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## PythonLegs (May 3, 2011)

This Has to be a wind up. Maybe it was the same 'friend' whose python lays next to them to size them up for dinner?


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## garthy (May 3, 2011)

A great lesson though to those that still feed live prey to their snakes, I know a few people that still think it's cool to watch the whole strike, coil, kill, swallow thing. And no doubt they walk away if it doesn't happen in the 1st 30 seconds or minute.
A great (albeit confronting) lesson to those that don't know enough yet.
Thanks


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

Sorry my ''Story'' doesn't add up and you're disappointed in the content, you'll be glad to know from this point onward i will do my very best to lift the standards of such posts to meet you're requirements.

The rat was in there for at least an hour and a half, i'm not entirely sure if it ''ate'' its brains, maybe ''chewed its head off'' was more appropriate..

''I'm sure there's far more to this story than we've been told and led to believe.''
I'm not sure what you mean by this? As far as you believing my the statement..I am not bothered of you're opinion either way good sir.

Thank you for you're expertise on the matter i'll be sure to pass the info on.






Recharge said:


> yea, I'm sorry but your story doesn't quite cut it, for a rat to do THAT kind of damage, it was left in there for at least a full day or more, a rat (or anything) that's been smashed in the head will not be wanting to eat for QUITE some time to say the least.
> no one with any sense throws a fresh kill in and doesn't watch it until it's gone.
> 
> I'm sure there's far more to this story than we've been told and led to believe.
> ...


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## serpenttongue (May 3, 2011)

bigfella77 said:


> What kind of a wuss python lets a rat get away with that sort of s##t.



You are joking, right??

A python that isn't willing to feed (for whatever reason) will let a rodent do anything to it, including gnaw the crap out of it. I know of a similar incident where a rat was left with a diamond in an aviary, and the rat chewed a hole into pythons stomach and pulled all the intestines out (although this was probably after the snake was dead). In my opinion, snakes aren't very defensive to animals smaller than them.


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## garthy (May 3, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> You are joking, right??
> 
> A python that isn't willing to feed (for whatever reason) will let a rodent do anything to it, including gnaw the crap out of it. I know of a similar incident where a rat was left with a diamond in an aviary, and the rat chewed a hole into pythons stomach and pulled all the intestines out (although this was probably after the snake was dead). In my opinion, snakes aren't very defensive to animals smaller than them.



Especially if they are a bit too cool to be in feeding mode.


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## Wally (May 3, 2011)

Just more rubbish that does the hobby no favors.


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## serpenttongue (May 3, 2011)

Recharge said:


> and why would you even SHOW that kind of picture on here? you could have told the story without inflicting shock on unsuspecting reptile lovers.


 
People wouldn't have believed it otherwise, and would say "pics or it didn't happen". Sometimes graphic photo's are needed to help get the severity of the situation through to the ignorant ones out there ( I don't mean you).


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## garthy (May 3, 2011)

Inkage said:


> Sorry my ''Story'' doesn't add up and you're disappointed in the content, you'll be glad to know from this point onward i will do my very best to lift the standards of such posts to meet you're requirements.
> 
> The rat was in there for at least an hour and a half, i'm not entirely sure if it ''ate'' its brains, maybe ''chewed its head off'' was more appropriate..
> 
> ...


 
Too many inexperienced people on here inkage to expect serious discussion/education. What you have shown is that your mate did the wrong thing! His snake has paid the ultimate price and very unfortunate that he has lost a beautiful snake. Yes it's cruel, yes it's wrong but such a powerful message in this!!!


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## chewbacca (May 3, 2011)

well there looks to be bloodstains on the rock behind the python in witch it looked like there could have been some form of struggle for life.

poor snake, stupid owner..sorry but hes a down right douche bag

fridays f-wit


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## Twitch_80 (May 3, 2011)

Strange


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> You are joking, right??
> 
> A python that isn't willing to feed (for whatever reason) will let a rodent do anything to it, including gnaw the crap out of it. I know of a similar incident where a rat was left with a diamond in an aviary, and the rat chewed a hole into pythons stomach and pulled all the intestines out (although this was probably after the snake was dead). In my opinion, snakes aren't very defensive to animals smaller than them.


Yes actually, I was joking. I find the concept of a larger predator being killed by its intended meal strikes me as ironic even though I find the death of a beautifull creature like that as being quiet sucky.


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## wranga (May 3, 2011)

this isnt the first time ive heard and seen of this happening. im glad a pic has been posted to show the consequences of feeding live live rodents


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## Greenmad (May 3, 2011)

wranga said:


> this isnt the first time ive heard and seen of this happening. im glad a pic has been posted to show the consequences of feeding live live rodents



+1


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

He's by no means new to reptile keeping, This being only the second time i've personally heard of this happening.. Too people in the last 15 years... Back before frozen feed was available a lot of people fed fresh killed food items, myself included. I had never had an issue, though on occasions you'd get the odd rat that Just didn't want to die. I think in this case it was just an exceptional animal that was understandably unhappy with being whacked on the head.. As far as the python goes i have no idea about the history of it or its feeding habits, so one could only guess about its health or willingness to defend itself ect.


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## serpenttongue (May 3, 2011)

bigfella77 said:


> Yes actually, I was joking. I find the concept of a larger predator being killed by its intended meal strikes me as ironic even though I find the death of a beautifull creature like that as being quiet sucky.


 
Cool 

Yes, those damn rats are cunning little buggers. This wouldn't happen with a live chick, quail, duck or perhaps a young rabbit (not that I'm advocating the use of any LIVE animal). It's just a shame that keepers always use mice or rats when feeding live. You would think they'd try something that can't gnaw on their python.


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## LizardLady (May 3, 2011)

serpenttongue said:


> You would think they'd try something that can't gnaw on their python.



Umm, rabbits don't gnaw??? Hmm, interesting...


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

No dramas serpenttongue, the nuance of speech is often lost in text. My sense of humour often gets me on the wrong side of people who dont know me.


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## DanTheMan (May 3, 2011)

Guys chill!! It's only a Diamond...

Lucky it wasn't something worth keeping


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

I actually found a lovely diamond today on the highway just north of Buladelah freshly run over. That sucked to.


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## Nagraj (May 3, 2011)

If that snake turns into a zombie we're in for a world of pain ...... or a really bad movie script. Better bury it with salt in it's mouth or something anti-zombie like that.


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## Recharge (May 3, 2011)

Inkage said:


> Sorry my ''Story'' doesn't add up and you're disappointed in the content, you'll be glad to know from this point onward i will do my very best to lift the standards of such posts to meet you're requirements.
> 
> The rat was in there for at least an hour and a half, i'm not entirely sure if it ''ate'' its brains, maybe ''chewed its head off'' was more appropriate..
> 
> ...


 
and hour and a half? after having it's head bashed against a wall or some such? no, sorry, don't believe you, I bred rats for near on six years (about 200 at any given time) I have a LOT of experience in this, I've seen how long it takes a rat to recover enough to even wander around just a little, and your story has so many holes it's not even funny, so how is it that this happened to your mate, but you know exactly what went on and when and in what order? 
I can understand you wanting defend your "friend' but the series of events are simply too fantastical to be plausible in the way they've been laid out.



serpenttongue said:


> People wouldn't have believed it otherwise, and would say "pics or it didn't happen". Sometimes graphic photo's are needed to help get the severity of the situation through to the ignorant ones out there ( I don't mean you).


 
then let them ask for pics privately, there's no need for this type of image to be up, or at least have a not safe warning in the thread title.



garthy said:


> Too many inexperienced people on here inkage to expect serious discussion/education. What you have shown is that your mate did the wrong thing! His snake has paid the ultimate price and very unfortunate that he has lost a beautiful snake. Yes it's cruel, yes it's wrong but such a powerful message in this!!!


 
inexperienced? yes, there are quite a few indeed, but there are also a lot of people who are quite experienced.
serious discussion INCLUDES people seeing and hearing an impossible story and then debunking it's supposed plausibility, because they know better from personal experience.

and it is a powerful message, IF it's true, and I simply don't believe the time line of supposed things happening, or the way they have been portrayed.



wranga said:


> this isnt the first time ive heard and seen of this happening. im glad a pic has been posted to show the consequences of feeding live live rodents


 
No wranga, this is the consequences of not supervising during a fresh kill feed, not because it was a fresh kill feed, lets not get carried away with half truths and misinformation here.


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## Nagraj (May 3, 2011)

Inkage said:


> ... Back before frozen feed was available .......


 
Frozen food has always been available. Kill it, freeze it, feed it later.


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

Nagraj said:


> If that snake turns into a zombie we're in for a world of pain ...... or a really bad movie script. Better bury it with salt in it's mouth or something anti-zombie like that.



Thay would sell well I think, how about it, a snake that dont sleep or ever refuse a meal and wont die on you no matter how poorly its looked after. Slightly aggressive though.


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## serpenttongue (May 3, 2011)

LizardLady said:


> Umm, rabbits don't gnaw??? Hmm, interesting...


 
Well they don't seem to do the damage that rats will. Rats gnaw with a vengeance!!! I haven't had much to do with rabbits, but they seem to want to get away from the snake, not climb all over it and follow it into it's hide, the way a rat will.


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## guzzo (May 3, 2011)

Well all I can say to those who do live feed rats or do not ensure they are dead before dropping them in with your snakes is..........

*“ If you can’t be a good example, then you’ll just have to serve as a horrible warning!!!”*


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## woody101 (May 3, 2011)

why not watch ur snake if eating a live rat even if its been knocked on the head i watch my snakes even though i feed them frozen just to makes sure it all goes well


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

True, though there never seemed the need for it until you'd hear of such a thing happening, Now though through the power of the internet and forums and such information is easily accessible.. Back then you'd ask a guy who would tell you nothing of any value, ''In the wild nobody kills food for em'' I remember being ''great'' advise.. But yeah.. 



Nagraj said:


> Frozen food has always been available. Kill it, freeze it, feed it later.


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## abnrmal91 (May 3, 2011)

In the wild they are not stuck in a enclosure same for the rat. In the wild the snake ambushes the eat and takes it by suprise it's not a case of it just being dropped infront of it.


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> In the wild they are not stuck in a enclosure same for the rat. In the wild the snake ambushes the eat and takes it by suprise it's not a case of it just being dropped infront of it.



True, as someone stated somwhere here recently, the snake scent is all around and the rat goes on the defensive instantly. Where as in the wild the snake would not be in close proximity to the prey unless it was fired up to feed.


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## Fuscus (May 3, 2011)

I think the big lesson here is that if you use FK then watch the entire feeding process. I do both, and have had rodents wake up at the wrong time, which is awful but if you are there you can do something about it. And a google search for "snake live prey damage" should convince people about the weaponry a rodent has.


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## Inkage (May 3, 2011)

Reacharge, I posted a pic and wrote what he told me. Point being..Feed frozen, as for my story having holes, are you saying i take photos of dead animals and make up fantastic scenarios?


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## garthy (May 3, 2011)

yar... this was funny!


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## zuesowns (May 3, 2011)

abnrmal91 said:


> In the wild they are not stuck in a enclosure same for the rat. In the wild the snake ambushes the eat and takes it by suprise it's not a case of it just being dropped infront of it.


 
Also I don't think the rats in the wild are quiet as calm as the ones being breed for snake food.

they would be running with any noise etc.


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## bigfella77 (May 3, 2011)

Its a bummer to see a diamond 1uped by a damn rat after watching one take down a full grown possum.


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## Renenet (May 3, 2011)

Good lesson, however it happened, but do agree there should have been a warning about the graphic picture. I'm quite tired and not as alert as I could be, but I was expecting some kind of light-hearted joke!


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## garthy (May 3, 2011)

Recharge said:


> and hour and a half? after having it's head bashed against a wall or some such? no, sorry, don't believe you, I bred rats for near on six years (about 200 at any given time) I have a LOT of experience in this, I've seen how long it takes a rat to recover enough to even wander around just a little, and your story has so many holes it's not even funny, so how is it that this happened to your mate, but you know exactly what went on and when and in what order?
> I can understand you wanting defend your "friend' but the series of events are simply too fantastical to be plausible in the way they've been laid out.
> 
> 
> ...



given the end result... does the time-line even matter?? Hello... if people are going to keep pets/reptiles etc then they'd better take a spoonful of cement and harden up a little. 
I teach apprentices and some of the most valuable lessons for them are the life-skill ones that hit the hardest. Cops and Ambo's coming in and giving graphic displays of what happens when you drink and drive or travel too fast or just plain stuff up!. This thread and the pic attached is sometimes what's needed! No point wrapping newbies in cotton wool and then when something eventually goes wrong, all the "experts" on here will flame them sooo bad they won't want to be part of this site again


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## Jackrabbit (May 3, 2011)

bigfella77 said:


> True, as someone stated somwhere here recently, the snake scent is all around and the rat goes on the defensive instantly.


 
I am not so sure about that. Someone recently posted a video of snakes striking at food both live and dead. Of the live mice thrown in, none of them appeared to know there was a snake right in front of them until the snake had it in it's mouth.


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## Recharge (May 3, 2011)

Inkage said:


> Reacharge, I posted a pic and wrote what he told me. Point being..Feed frozen, as for my story having holes, are you saying i take photos of dead animals and make up fantastic scenarios?


 
*sigh* No Inkage, that's not what I inferred at all, if anything, I'm saying your friend is telling you porkies, or at least, not the whole truth of events.

why is it on this site, everyone feels as if they are personally being attacked at every point? take some chill pills and consider not everyone is out to suppress and get you all.

fresh kill feeding is entirely safe if you follow some simple rules and common sense guidelines.



garthy said:


> given the end result... does the time-line even matter??


 
yes, very much so, I'd hate to think you ask the same question in a trial or something  

what event led to what and how are entirely important as is the CORRECT message, not some emotive rubbish designed to scare newbies into pulling the party line.
as for the rest of your ranting post, it holds no bearing in this discussion what so ever.


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## Jen (May 3, 2011)

Couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread, but to me the moral of the story is - learn to kill the food item correctly. Freshly killed is awesome, but only when the kill is a 'kill', not a 'donk' on the head that merely results in a woozy prey item. Nothing comes back after a correctly applied cervical dislocation...


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## shazz (May 3, 2011)

I am just about to get my first diamond snake and after seeing this, I definately wont be feeding live. - oh and thanks for the lasting picture,one I will cherish every time I feed. Not!


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## Darlyn (May 3, 2011)

So far 16 people "like" this thread, What the hell is there to like. Am I missing something?
It's a graphic warning. With graphic pics what do you like?


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## veenarm (May 3, 2011)

Pinoy said:


> It is a diamond though, if it's anything like mine and my mates one, it doesn't really attack its food, it kinda slowly approaches it and casually eats it, as if it were in slow motion.
> 
> Maybe that one was like that and got ambushed?



My Diamond is like that, is fully looks over the food sniffs sniffs, then just gradually opens its mouth and inhales it.. never strikes at it or anything, its a big girl!


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## Fuscus (May 4, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> So far 16 people "like" this thread, What the hell is there to like. Am I missing something?
> It's a graphic warning. With graphic pics what do you like?


They properly like because there is a lesson to be learnt. Two actually, 
1/ Watch what you feed.
2/ If you (or a friend) make a mistake and post it in the hope other people don't make the snake mistake then expect to be flamed


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## sookie (May 4, 2011)

wow,that's some pretty full on graphic stuff for this time of the morning.but hey,there is a thread going of roadkill pics,now i gotta ask myself,why roadkill pics?why this pic?i enjoy me pets cos they are breathing and moving,what's the big deal at the mo with dead reps etc?prety sick really.


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## shortstuff61 (May 4, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> So far 16 people "like" this thread, What the hell is there to like. Am I missing something?
> It's a graphic warning. With graphic pics what do you like?


 
I'm pretty sure the "likes" are applied to individual posts, the number in the top right corner is just the total number of individual likes occuring in this thread.


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## Chris1 (May 4, 2011)

maybe the fresh killed people should actually break the rats neck once its been smashed,...just to make sure its good and dead and wont be waking up.

terrible lesson ur mate learnt, hopefully others will learn from it too.


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## MD-Mummy (May 4, 2011)

Im going on 30 and I know when I was young (I think maybe 5 or 6) a very similar incident happened to my Uncle. He threw a live rat in with his snake and walked away. Im not sure of a time frame but i assume some time later he found his snake with a huge hole in its head. Only thing I do know is it was not a Diamond Python. These sorts os sad things do in fact happen but I think instead of judging we need to learn the lesson and stick with frozen feeding. One I think its illegal to feed live anyways and two, its much safer for our animals.


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 4, 2011)

> wow,that's some pretty full on graphic stuff for this time of the morning.but hey,there is a thread going of roadkill pics,now i gotta ask myself,why roadkill pics?why this pic?i enjoy me pets cos they are breathing and moving,what's the big deal at the mo with dead reps etc?prety sick really.



IF you don't like it or understand it, don't look at it Sookie. 
The people who found those roadkill shots care more for reptiles and wildlife then most people you know. 
Finding a dead animal in one place can be an amazing thing. For example my friend found a dead tiger snake on the sunshine coast! That is amazing! That means there is a population of them there!


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## longqi (May 4, 2011)

There is a video out there somewhere that shows exactly how this happened

It is far more common than most people think
Rats are ferocious predators
They probably kill more young snakes than any other animal


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## junty (May 4, 2011)

I am a complete and utter newbie, I have no snakes/reptiles as I'm still in the research stage, and being in this stage makes me a sponge for knowledge with everything I read. Books, forums etc.
This thread sang out one bold thing to me and that is that with feeding fresh kill there is a danger. A danger that could possibly harm my pet (when i get one).
Regardless of the specific details, it is this message that i take on board. I planned to feed frozen and thawed kill to my pet anyway, but even if maybe chose to feed fresh killed, i will remember this thread and posts, and others on this topic too. As for the pic, there was no shock factor. I believe it makes you think harder about the possible dangers to your pet, and personally, i imagined reptile owners to be quiet thick skinned.


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## LizardLady (May 4, 2011)

It is your post Junty that gives me, and I'm sure others here, a great sense of pride in that a "newbie" in the "research stage" is taking all this on board. For which, I applaud you! 

As for the "thick skin"... well, we have to have "something" under our scales, don't we?! 

Good work Junty, keep it up!

Best,
Carolyn


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## Smithers (May 4, 2011)

junty said:


> I am a complete and utter newbie, I have no snakes/reptiles as I'm still in the research stage, and being in this stage makes me a sponge for knowledge with everything I read. Books, forums etc.
> This thread sang out one bold thing to me and that is that with feeding fresh kill there is a danger. A danger that could possibly harm my pet (when i get one).
> Regardless of the specific details, it is this message that i take on board. I planned to feed frozen and thawed kill to my pet anyway, but even if maybe chose to feed fresh killed, i will remember this thread and posts, and others on this topic too. As for the pic, there was no shock factor. I believe it makes you think harder about the possible dangers to your pet, and personally, i imagined reptile owners to be quiet thick skinned.



Ditto LL, It's a breath of fresh air to hear someone doing the study before and not other way round. I can sense we will hear positive stories/outcomes from you Junty  

Defrosted for mine always....thought I'd add to stay on topic


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 4, 2011)

Nice work Junty!
Fresh killed is sometimes (very very rarely) the only way to get an animal feeding. 
Just have to be careful and make sure it is dead!


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## saximus (May 4, 2011)

Nice work Junty. Good to hear someone doing the proper research. As for the thick-skinned thing, I don't know if that applies to a lot of people on here.
As someone said earlier, CD after the knock on the head would make sure the job is done properly anyway. Sorry to hear about your friend Inkage. I guess if people didn't make mistakes like this we wouldn't learn as a community


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## Darlyn (May 4, 2011)

shortstuff61 said:


> I'm pretty sure the "likes" are applied to individual posts, the number in the top right corner is just the total number of individual likes occuring in this thread.



Alrighty, thanks for that never knew : )


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## saximus (May 4, 2011)

If you click on the number it also brings up a list of all of the liked comments and how many each one has


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## Darlyn (May 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> If you click on the number it also brings up a list of all of the liked comments and how many each one has


 
Ha ha, never knew that either!
So if I like your posts for informing me how it works I will be adding to what I was
moaning about. Ha ha a little bit of hypocrisy for the day. I like that!


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## cement (May 4, 2011)

There is no excuse for this sort of thing to happen. But thats me.
If your in that much of a rush, don't feed the snake.

Adult Diamonds shouldn't be feeding now anyway, unless its a female that laid eggs this year and she'still a bit thin on it.


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## guzzo (May 4, 2011)

Well as Shaka ZULU said -"Never leave an enemy behind or it will rise again to fly at your throat." 

I know he would have been talking about rats for sure!!!!!!


Rats....can't live with em can't live without em....


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## zack13 (May 5, 2011)

Recharge said:


> *sigh* No Inkage, that's not what I inferred at all, if anything, I'm saying your friend is telling you porkies, or at least, not the whole truth of events.
> 
> why is it on this site, everyone feels as if they are personally being attacked at every point? take some chill pills and consider not everyone is out to suppress and get you all.
> 
> ...


 

Surely you are kidding right. He might feel attacked because you made it personal. You flat out called him a liar. Not his friend but him. Maybe try saying I think your mate might have stretched the truth rather than your story doesn't add up and I don't believe you next time.

As far as you knowing the time line that is a bit ridiculous. Are you a neurosurgeon? I know that when I just did a neuro science class in uni we learnt it was impossible to be able to see the extent of damage and estimate time to recover with appropriate scans. Maybe you can come teach us and the surgeons sure would save lots of time and money. 

Also your remark about court has no bearing on this conversation or at least I didn't think it did, was the rat on trial? The timeline is insignificant. Whether he left that rat in there for 1 hour or 2372 hours he left it in there without supervision. That is the lesson and that is all that matters. I really get the sense you're nit picking for the sake of it.

Lastly you opened a thread that said zombie rat killed snake. Did it not cross your mind that it might have a picture? I know it did mine. Should everyone sensor everything on here for people who can't think for themselves?
Don't take this the wrong way though I'm not out to suppress you.


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## ingie (May 5, 2011)

Recharge said:


> yea, I'm sorry but your story doesn't quite cut it, for a rat to do THAT kind of damage, it was left in there for at least a full day or more, a rat (or anything) that's been smashed in the head will not be wanting to eat for QUITE some time to say the least.
> no one with any sense throws a fresh kill in and doesn't watch it until it's gone.
> 
> I'm sure there's far more to this story than we've been told and led to believe.
> ...



A rat could do that very quickly, I see them powering through big chunks of fruit and various things I feed them. It definitely wouldn't need a whole day. Especially seeing as it would be doing it in fear to defend itself not just because it was hungry after a bad headache! 

The picture was very powerful for me and I am glad it was included - I sometimes fresh kill for my Diamonds because they can be quite slow and fussy... I have always been careful and never left them unsupervised while eating fresh kill, but I will not be forgetting that image and I agree with Jen - nothing comes back from cervical dislocation. 

There is nothing wrong with fresh kill if it is done correctly.. I know I prefer to eat fresh food over frozen!


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## Recharge (May 5, 2011)

zack13 said:


> Surely you are kidding right. He might feel attacked because you made it personal. You flat out called him a liar. Not his friend but him. Maybe try saying I think your mate might have stretched the truth rather than your story doesn't add up and I don't believe you next time.


only if someone were too self involved would they feel this, following the logic of the post, one can see that I only attacked the story it's self, not the poster who made it (unless they are the same person) 
I sometimes forget that people generally aren't logical, and thus would feel personally attacked because I wouldn't believe a story they told me.
to me it was pretty overwhelmingly obvious that I was disbelieving the story, not the poster.



> As far as you knowing the time line that is a bit ridiculous. Are you a neurosurgeon? I know that when I just did a neuro science class in uni we learnt it was impossible to be able to see the extent of damage and estimate time to recover with appropriate scans. Maybe you can come teach us and the surgeons sure would save lots of time and money.


as I said, personal experience of over half a decade of breeding thousands of rats and a LOT of fresh kill feeding.
I've seen any number of rats recover after being smacked in the head, I don't say it's impossible this event could have happened, but in the time frame, it's unlikely, you can disregard the time line as much as you want, but it is important to burden of proof when this thread has been turned into a anti fresh kill theme.
alarmist rhetoric and FUD have taken over, including trying to portray me as attacking people which is clearly untrue.



> Also your remark about court has no bearing on this conversation or at least I didn't think it did, was the rat on trial? The timeline is insignificant. Whether he left that rat in there for 1 hour or 2372 hours he left it in there without supervision. That is the lesson and that is all that matters. I really get the sense you're nit picking for the sake of it.


indeed I have nit picked, for good reason, several people have claimed outright that fresh kill feeding is not safe, but that's only true if it's unsupervised and done without following safety rules, and i have said this clearly, I have been pedantic for this reason, how is it your don't see this?



> Lastly you opened a thread that said zombie rat killed snake. Did it not cross your mind that it might have a picture? I know it did mine. Should everyone sensor everything on here for people who can't think for themselves?
> Don't take this the wrong way though I'm not out to suppress you.


the least that could have been done is a clear warning, I'm not the only one who disagrees with the imagery used solely to discredit fresh kill feeding, heck there could have been a plain link to the picture so people could still see it, with a "warning graphic image" tag over it, and all would have been fine.
would you have said the same of a dog forum with a graphic image of a dog dead on the road after being hit by a car, warning to keep your dog contained? people would have been outraged to say the least, but because it's a reptile and not warm and fuzzy it's all ok?
I don't think so.



ingie said:


> A rat could do that very quickly, I see them powering through big chunks of fruit and various things I feed them. It definitely wouldn't need a whole day. Especially seeing as it would be doing it in fear to defend itself not just because it was hungry after a bad headache!


a bad headache? if you smack a rat against a wall HARD, it's not a case of a simple head ache.
unless said whacking wasn't done with force enough to attempt to kill the rat (which is possible), again it comes down to supervision and following some simple safety rules, which obviously weren't.



> The picture was very powerful for me and I am glad it was included - I sometimes fresh kill for my Diamonds because they can be quite slow and fussy... I have always been careful and never left them unsupervised while eating fresh kill, but I will not be forgetting that image and I agree with Jen - nothing comes back from cervical dislocation.


 I changed over to gas, for this very reason, but even then, I've seen rats recover, but I always supervised thus I avoided an incident.



> There is nothing wrong with fresh kill if it is done correctly.. I know I prefer to eat fresh food over frozen!



agreed, as long as people don't get complacent, there's no need to call out for not fresh kill feeding (as has been seen in multiple posts) 
there is need however to reinforce people taking care.


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## shellfisch (May 5, 2011)

zack13 said:


> Lastly you opened a thread that said zombie rat killed snake. Did it not cross your mind that it might have a picture? I know it did mine. Should everyone sensor everything on here for people who can't think for themselves?



Precisely. 
In my opinion, anyone with half a brain would have realised there was a good chance of a photo or two, and take that into consideration when opening the thread.
I did, and immediately went to the second post. I have not, and will not, look at the pics.


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## Torah (May 5, 2011)

Wow this sort of thing shouldnt happen anymore , should it ?? Why not be on the safe side and use frozen thawed ??? sorry i just dont get it ....


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## saximus (May 5, 2011)

Some people just prefer to use fresh killed. I think also if you breed your own rats it's easier to just grab a couple from the tubs and knock them and throw them in rather than wait for them to thaw


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## abnrmal91 (May 5, 2011)

saximus said:


> Some people just prefer to use fresh killed. I think also if you breed your own rats it's easier to just grab a couple from the tubs and knock them and throw them in rather than wait for them to thaw


 
Yer there is no problem with that idea as long as it is fresh KILLED not just taking a nap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mckellar007 (May 5, 2011)

i prefer fresh killed, although i ensure they are killed, donk them then separate the spine by hand, to ensure that there is no "zombie" rats. its a lot quicker then waiting for 100 rats to thaw, and they don't loose any moisture through the freezing process.


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## sookie (May 5, 2011)

Silly question but do the frozen feeds contain any less goodness,like some nutrients lost in the freezing process.i know this can happen with some vegies.
And the roadkill site i mentioned as rather sick,try explaining to a kid why people are stopping and taking pics of dead snakes etc.the pic at the top of this thread just took me by surprise.


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## Snakeluvver2 (May 5, 2011)

I did explain it to you and a child could understand it. It is not sick your just close minded.


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## redlittlejim (May 5, 2011)

Raaaaaa loud noises


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## Southside Morelia (May 5, 2011)

That's why I ALWAYS separate the head from the spine on a fresh killed rat....as they do have a habit of coming to when donked, they are tough buggers....


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