# Stroke of genius, or dumb



## kwaka (Apr 20, 2013)

I had heat tile on the brain, got some heat cord, went to Bunnings and got the attached "tiles".



One is granite, one is slate, they are pavers. But, and this is the stroke of genius bit, the 4m of heat cord heats them up to about 33-35 degrees!! Just a little heavy.....

So my brilliant wife suggested I didn't need both of them, and I could just put some MDF on the back of one. Simple, yet elegant.

So my question is, has anyone ever used pavers instead of tiles, and how would one suggest sealing it so little nakeys don't get squooshed?

Or is sealing it a bad idea due to lack of airflow? Never used heat cord, so not sure what is or isn't a good idea...


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## disintegratus (Apr 20, 2013)

They're the same ones I use 
I figure they don't need the heat underneath it, what with it being flat on the ground, so I just use the top one and have a thin piece of MDF underneath to keep it neat. I don't seal them at all, So far I've never had an issue with snakies moving the tiles or getting squished, and the biggest I'm using them for is a fully grown Bredli who's a massive fatso and has broken at last count 3 light fittings by climbing on them (I only cage them when I'm using the fitting, otherwise I move the cages and just let them dangle free.)


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## Woma_Wild (Apr 20, 2013)

kwaka said:


> I had heat tile on the brain, got some heat cord, went to Bunnings and got the attached "tiles".
> View attachment 288778
> 
> 
> ...



What wattage heat cord did you use kwaka ?

they are the pavers I purchased. Was thinking of making a wooden frame and base to sit it in.


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## longqi (Apr 20, 2013)

I used to use a terracotta tile
then make a box frame under it
put mesh below the frame
put 40watt globe inside the box
mount box part way up the wall of the viv

tile sat as 30c as heat mat
plus gave basking spot below the box

very simple
very cheap
very effective


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## kwaka (Apr 20, 2013)

4m long, 15W. The paver was $3.50, so with some leftover MDF glued to the back to keep the cord in place, this is going to be extremely cheap. It was warmer with a hide on top of it, and I have staggered the cord to be tighter at one end, so there is a bit of a gradient, so he can choose where he wants to be.


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## christopherR (Apr 20, 2013)

Genius for sure  I use the slate one for Woma's and I get a good 33-35 basking spot with a 15 watt cord and they love it.


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## Bananapeel (Apr 20, 2013)

I use wall tiles sandwiched together which isn't necessary but it was cheaper than buying a single one so whatever. Mine easily hit 35 but I only need 33ish so it's set to that on a thermostat and keeps a good temperature.

For setting mine up, we simply got the bottom tiles and placed them glossy side down on the has of the enclosure. The cord is between fabric. Pretty much I got 2 bits of fabric, put them on top of one another then stitched about 12 straight lines down the fabric not quite to the ends. This left me with multiple 1.5ish cm channels which the cord was threaded up and down through. Like an S. this sat on the bottom tiles. Then the top tiles were placed over the top. (The fabric just holds the cord in an even pattern) to stop the tiles shifting as they aren't secure, we put quarter round around 3 sides of the tiles as the 4th is against the wall. This also looks kinda neat and stops the snake shifting them. Some of the coco peat still gets between the tiles but I simply lift the tiles in cleaning and vacuum it out  very easy and works a treat! 


I'll get some pics up. Soon


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## Bananapeel (Apr 20, 2013)

not sure if those pictures worked :/ but if they did you can kind of see the tiles are sandwiched snug inside the quarter round 'border'. The cord isn't visible but you can sort of make out the shape of it going back and fourth through the fabric. although the fabric and cord doesn't continue the whole way under the tiles the heat still conducts through pretty much to the edge of the tiles.


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## Renenet (Apr 20, 2013)

Kwaka (or anyone else with those tiles), 

Are you relying on the MDF to hold the cord in place or are you using something else as well? I'm about to use one of these tiles to make my own heat source.

Thanks.


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 20, 2013)

I believe a thin sheet of MDF under a tile is the way to go. Wood is a reasonable insulator and will conduct minimal heat to the bottom of the enclosure, where it is wasted. 

Slate, stone and ceramic tiles are reasonable conductors. Compare the feeling of a wooden versus a slate floor in winter in a cold room. Which one conducts the heat out of your feet more and therefore feels colder underfoot? Their conductive abilities not only ensure that they direct the heat into the enclosure but also ensure that the heat is evenly distributed at the surface so you do not have hot and colder spots.

These tiles have a ‘high specific heat’ which means that they require a lot of heat to increase their temperature each degree. This means that they will be slower to warm up. However, once at operating temperature, a cold snake can plonk itself on top without the tiles showing a significant drop in temperature. They will also remain warm for longer once the power is turned off, as the residual amount of heat is large and takes a while to dissipate. 

To house the heat cord, use a piece of MDF identical to the tile size and about twice the thickness of the cord. Route or saw parallel channels in the MDF to the depth of the cord, and just slightly wider, at 2 cm intervals. Cut 2 to 4 similar channels at the top and bottom of the board, at right angles to the channels already cut. This arrangement allows you to thread more or less cord into the base. Waterproof the prepared base with 3 or 4 coats of polyurethane or equivalent wood sealer.

Thread more or less cord into the base according to the temperature you wish to achieve. Excess heat cord simply hangs out the back corner of the enclosure, dissipating its heat to the air. Note, a hole the size of the end of the heat cord (slightly thicker than the bulk of the cord) is all that is required for this heating element to gain access to an enclosure.

The average tile is 30 cm square. Larger or smaller tiles can be used, if desired. Also, the shape of the heating area can be altered by cutting and reassembling tiles to the desired shape. Also, if desired, more than one tile can be utilised. By cutting the MDF base to the desired shape, the tiles can be affixed using Blutack or for greater stability, a thin wooden edging strip glued/nailed to the edge of the base allowing the tiles to be simply dropped into place.

Rather than attempting to create a temperature gradient by altering the spacing of the cord, simple have a section without cord under the tile and the heat transferred through the tile will gradually tail off.

The beauty of this is three fold. Direct heat transfer, rather than from ambient air temperatures, is far more efficient and effective and very often what occurs in nature (why reptiles sit on bitumen roads). Once remove an enclosure, all that is left is a small hole in the back corner about the size you push a cotton bud through. It is the most energy efficient heating technique (saves dollars) and therefore recommended for use wherever possible.

A few thoughts for the melting pot...

Blue


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## Smithers (Apr 21, 2013)

Have you moved it out of the click clack already? 

Or is this for later?


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## Bananapeel (Apr 21, 2013)

But in an adult enclosure, I assume you need more than just the heatcord. As there is _very_ little air being heated. And ambient temps can't be too cold during the day.


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## Trimeresurus (Apr 21, 2013)

Bananapeel said:


> But in an adult enclosure, I assume you need more than just the heatcord. As there is _very_ little air being heated. And ambient temps can't be too cold during the day.



Don't necessarily want to heat the air, if it's really getting that cold in the tank a hide ontop of a basking spot solves it. Snakes do well with bellyheat, it's how they warm up in the wild even when it's cold outside - a rock that has been sitting in the sun will be much warmer than the air.

I keep all my snakes except chondros on heatmats, and all do very well. Aslong as they can get most of their body onto the warm spot, they'll be fine.


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## Bluetongue1 (Apr 21, 2013)

I realised that you used the term "paver" which would indicate a brick-like structure. My only concern there would be the amount of time required for them to warm to a stable temperature.

*Bananapeel*, heat mats or tiles utilising heat cord warm the air in contact with them. As the air warms it rises, being replaced by cooler air in the enclosure. Tis is then warmed and rises.... The degree to which air within the enclosure are warmed by a heat tile will depend upon a wide range or factors, but primarily positioning and size of vents. So they can and usually dohave a substantial effect onambient air temperatures. As has been stated, contact heat is usually much more more important than ambient air temperatures.

Blue


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## Bananapeel (Apr 21, 2013)

Ah cheers guys for that. My enclosure sits at 21-25 during the day and overnight it gets to whatever the room temp is. I was always told aim for a 32-34/5 basking spot and 28ish ambient up warm end. Then sorta 24-6 or ambient temps down cool end. So assuming mine has 2 33 degree surface temp areas they'll be fine?


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## kwaka (Apr 21, 2013)

Smithers said:


> Have you moved it out of the click clack already?
> 
> Or is this for later?



It's for later....I am building a background for his tank, and once I set it up and get a consistent ambient temp of around 20-25, I will put his click clack in there so I don't have to heat the whole room he is in. I will do a week or more of testing with a new, next size up click clack before putting him in there in his current one. He has fed solidly the last two times, 4 days apart, and due again tonight.

I a_m _concerned about the coldness of the room, but there seems to be a good gradient with sufficient heat in his click clack, putting two blocks of styrofoam a few mm away from either side - toasty!! He also knows that there are 3 gradients - one on top of the double kitchen paper, one between the two sheets, and one directly on the plastic, so he has ample opportunity to find the right temp.

Thanks for the concern, dude.


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## Barrett (Apr 21, 2013)

Bluetongue1 said:


> To house the heat cord, use a piece of MDF identical to the tile size and about twice the thickness of the cord. Route or saw parallel channels in the MDF to the depth of the cord, and just slightly wider, at 2 cm intervals. Cut 2 to 4 similar channels at the top and bottom of the board, at right angles to the channels already cut. This arrangement allows you to thread more or less cord into the base. Waterproof the prepared base with 3 or 4 coats of polyurethane or equivalent wood sealer.



+1

That is what I have done, though I used an off cut of melamine. I covered the top of the melamine with aluminium tape after I routed the heat cord through. Placed my tile on top and voila.


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## mudgudgeon (Apr 22, 2013)

I experimented with the same tiles in the OP.

the plastic base worked well for attaching the heat cord, I sat mine on top off a piece of foam which I covered with foil tape, then I taped the two together with foil tape right around the edges so heat didn't escape.
I used an 8watt heat cord and it got to around 40degrees with a CHM above it also, too hot for my lizards! but it stayed at a consistent 35degrees on its own, the lizards loved it and would sleep on it if it was left on at night.


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## jairusthevirus21 (Apr 22, 2013)

For my vivarian banks i use a heat cord stuck to the bottom inside the viv in a zig-zag fashion, then place a slate tile on top of it... works great. been using it for years.


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## Grunter023 (Apr 23, 2013)

jairusthevirus21 said:


> For my vivarian banks i use a heat cord stuck to the bottom inside the viv in a zig-zag fashion, then place a slate tile on top of it... works great. been using it for years.



Do you seal the tile/heat cord up with anything? Wouldn't poop and fluids get in underneath the tile?


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## jairusthevirus21 (Apr 23, 2013)

No i didnt seal it... when i do full viv cleanout i remove the slate and give it a good scrub and f10 and any mess under the tile, I
give a good wiping with f10.


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