# A rare treat



## Jeffa (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi All, just thought I would post a few pics of a little critter that I rescued late last night. This little tacker was found under the dining table while food was being eaten. 


What I would like to know is how would these guys actually be able to eat Blind snakes at this tiny size?

Cheers.


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## Chanzey (Dec 16, 2012)

Blind snakes are tinier


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## Womagaunt (Dec 16, 2012)

If you dont already know what it is im pretty sure is a Bandy Bandy. Bandy Bandy nice snake tho


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## Jeffa (Dec 16, 2012)

Yeah Womagaunt, knew what it is. Never seen one this small though. Does anyone on this site know wether or not Bandy's hatching cycle coincides with blind snakes hatching cycle? I know of plenty of termite mounds that blind snakes would call home but to assume that Bandy's would strictly eat at such a small size.........................................................


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## Burnerism (Dec 16, 2012)

Nice find, I would LOVE a bandy if they weren't so finicky


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## Jk888 (Dec 16, 2012)

dam mate very nice find there rather had to come by these days


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## RedFox (Dec 16, 2012)

Jeffa said:


> Yeah Womagaunt, knew what it is. Never seen one this small though. Does anyone on this site know wether or not Bandy's hatching cycle coincides with blind snakes hatching cycle? I know of plenty of termite mounds that blind snakes would call home but to assume that Bandy's would strictly eat at such a small size.........................................................



hmmm I'm not sure but the baby Bandy Bandys have to be eating something reptilian. Looks too small to eat even a small blind snake.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 16, 2012)

Are they even australian? Do they have venom? Just curious because I have never seen one or even here'd of a bandy bandy before.


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## cement (Dec 16, 2012)

yes and yes, but if you get bitten by a bandy you WILL be the laughing stock of the entire herp world :lol:


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## RedFox (Dec 16, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Are they even australian? Do they have venom? Just curious because I have never seen one or even here'd of a bandy bandy before.



Google them. They are quite an unusual snake.


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## Bananapeel (Dec 16, 2012)

Very pretty and interesting!


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 17, 2012)

Cement

why would I be the laughing stock of the herp world if I got bitten? By te way is bandy bandy another name for a type of sea karate? Because if it is then I could understand why I would be the laughing stock of the herp world.


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 17, 2012)

I've never here'd of a sea karate. But I have heard of a Sea Krait. I hope you have looked up Bandy Bandy by now Reptiles4me - a very common snake on the east coast, mild venom, don't bite, so absolutely harmless.

Jamie


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## JasonL (Dec 17, 2012)

Bandy Bandys have also been recorded eating some subterranean skink species, blind snake babies however are very tiny, and Bandys can go without food for a long time as can most snakes that prefer cooler weather.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 17, 2012)

I meant sea krait and yes I have googled it twice.


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## Stevo2 (Dec 17, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> I've never here'd of a sea karate. But I have heard of a Sea Krait. I hope you have looked up Bandy Bandy by now Reptiles4me - a very common snake on the east coast, mild venom, don't bite, so absolutely harmless.
> 
> Jamie



I've never heard of "here'd" either 

Not sure about your google skills Reptiles4me - I typed in "bandy bandy" and got all the relevant and useful information straight up.....

https://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&su...6e6c8241fc0fe8&bpcl=39967673&biw=1366&bih=653


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## Gruni (Dec 17, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Cement
> 
> why would I be the laughing stock of the herp world if I got bitten? By te way is bandy bandy another name for a type of sea karate? Because if it is then I could understand why I would be the laughing stock of the herp world.



Mate I know you're 13 and all but take a minute when you type a post and before you hit post look at the words you might have made a blue on and make sure you have spelt them right, it's another way to avoid being laughed at... karate being a prime example.

That Bandy Bandy is a stunner, the 20c piece really puts it in perspective.  I'm lucky to get a blue tongue or skink around my place.


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## ronhalling (Dec 17, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Mate I know you're 13 and all but take a minute when you type a post and before you hit post look at the words you might have made a blue on and make sure you have spelt them right, it's another way to avoid being laughed at... karate being a prime example.
> 
> That Bandy Bandy is a stunner, the 20c piece really puts it in perspective.  I'm lucky to get a blue tongue or skink around my place.



Thank you Gruni, it is heartening to finally see someone suggesting Reptiles4me do something to alleviate the ridicule that seems to be heaped on him in just about every post he makes, i am sure that many here must have forgotten what youthfull exuberance is, in time i guess he will be pretty knowledgeable about reptiles if guys like you keep guiding him instead of laughing at him, i am so surprised that he has not lost it and torn stips of his detractors but i think he must just have broad shoulders.

wow that is a tiny "Bandy Bandy" never seen 1 so small, 1 of the guys up here had a couple of them he tried to breed but gave up after 4 years, he also said they were harder to feed than his kids


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## bally (Dec 17, 2012)

As previously said Bandy Bandys have been recorded eating skinks. It is not fully known whether this is a regular accurance though. Also do not trust what people say about their venom. There has not been too much indepth research into the their toxcity. Yes a bite is extreme rare, but i do know someone who has been bitten but not envenomated. These little guys neurotoxic qualities that other elapids dont possess


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## Pythoninfinite (Dec 17, 2012)

ronhalling said:


> Thank you Gruni, it is heartening to finally see someone suggesting Reptiles4me do something to alleviate the ridicule that seems to be heaped on him in just about every post he makes, i am sure that many here must have forgotten what youthfull exuberance is, in time i guess he will be pretty knowledgeable about reptiles if guys like you keep guiding him instead of laughing at him, i am so surprised that he has not lost it and torn stips of his detractors but i think he must just have broad shoulders.
> 
> wow that is a tiny "Bandy Bandy" never seen 1 so small, 1 of the guys up here had a couple of them he tried to breed but gave up after 4 years, he also said they were harder to feed than his kids



It's actually not heaping ridicule to point out absurd errors in grammar, spelling, or errors in intended meaning. I am extremely conscious of clarity of meaning whenever I type anything here (and anywhere else), as we all should be. I was not being scornful, just indicating, as Gruni did, that it pays to read what you've typed before hitting the send button. But most people seem to let these things go uncommented on, so the slide in the use of comprehensible English continues unabated. Unfortunately, even the younger teachers these days are afflicted with the same bug - my wife was a teacher (English major) for 25 years before commencing another career, and she despaired of the "anythinK, somethinK, mischeeeevIous, defiantly (instead of "definitely") etc etc that used to emanate from teachers' mouths and chalks (before interactive whiteboards lol!).

I suppose I'll get flamed for being a hardliner when it comes to meaning within the written and spoken word, but that's life...

Jamie


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## Stevo2 (Dec 17, 2012)

.


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## thomasssss (Dec 17, 2012)

ronhalling said:


> Thank you Gruni, it is heartening to finally see someone suggesting Reptiles4me do something to alleviate the ridicule that seems to be heaped on him in just about every post he makes, i am sure that many here must have forgotten what youthfull exuberance is, in time i guess he will be pretty knowledgeable about reptiles if guys like you keep guiding him instead of laughing at him, i am so surprised that he has not lost it and torn stips of his detractors but i think he must just have broad shoulders.


ill just mention that i to have given him a little advice about how if he wants to be taken seriously then getting his spelling and meaning of words right would help alot , like how he confuses "dose" with "does" 

he just openly said that he doesn't care about his spelling or if he gets words right , how can you help him when his got that attitude? i told him how simply right clicking words underlined in red can fix the problem , he knows how to do it but just doesn't care , if thats the case and he just doesn't care than should he be taken seriously 

i am surprised that he didn't tell us all off in the first week though , got top give him some credit for that

ps im far from a spelling/grammar nazi myself , so who ever wants to pick at the incorrect grammar in my post (like what happened last time mentioned this) your welcome to i really couldn't care less , at least im not confusing "dose" with "does", or spikin lik dis bru su u hav 2 disyfa da mening of ma poist


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## Stuart (Dec 17, 2012)

Getting back on topic, that's an awesome find mate. I'm sure there are a few herpers out there (myself included) who would be pretty happy with finding and holding a Bandy Bandy..


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 17, 2012)

Don't worry about that second post on this topic , I got my answer, fantastic looking snake ,I forgot to mention that in my last post. 



I meant this post for the first page.

- - - Updated - - -

Thomasssss I didn't say I don't care about my spelling I just said I don't *normally *worry about it. I was not trying to give you any attitude of that nature. If my spelling is bothering you guys ,girls, then I will do better to insure my spelling is correct.

there is something I have to say about the bandy bandy. I want one ,I want one ,I really really want one. Cheers for that advice by the way.


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## Gruni (Dec 17, 2012)

Reptiles4Me, just to be clear I wasn't posting that as a ridiculing dig and it is the same comment I have made to others lately. I think people would do well to take 30secs between typing and posting to look for glaring things like that so people won't pick on them and take them more seriously. Kudos to you for putting up with it and maintaining your interest. 

Ronhalling you may want to look back over my past record with the youngster, I am one of the members who stuck up for him in an earlier thread.

Sorry for the hijack but I felt I had a right of reply... Now back to your scheduled broadcast on the cute little Bandy Bandy (the Daddy Longlegs of the venomous snake world)


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## cement (Dec 17, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Cement
> 
> why would I be the laughing stock of the herp world if I got bitten? By te way is bandy bandy another name for a type of sea karate? Because if it is then I could understand why I would be the laughing stock of the herp world.



Because its almost impossible to get bitten by one, most snake people take great pride in not getting bitten. Sort of like getting attacked by a gummy shark.....

And no, they aren't kraits, they are elapids and land dwellers, and are hopeless at any type of martial art.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 17, 2012)

Ok thanks cement....and gruni.


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## JasonL (Dec 18, 2012)

Gruni said:


> . Now back to your scheduled broadcast on the cute little Bandy Bandy (the Daddy Longlegs of the venomous snake world)



Daddy Longlegs are not overly venomous, and their fangs are big enough to bite.... another urban myth...


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 18, 2012)

Actually there are 2 types of daddy long legs ,the American and Australian daddy long legs, the australian daddy long legs has extremely mild venom ,keep in mind both species can't puncture the skin, but the American daddy long legs has one of the most deadly and powerful venoms in the world. I have an extensive knowledge of arthropod's.


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## Stevo2 (Dec 18, 2012)

JasonL said:


> Daddy Longlegs are not overly venomous, and their fangs are big enough to bite.... another urban myth...



You're wrong. Apparently. :facepalm:


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## Wing_Nut (Dec 18, 2012)

Daddy long legs, Pholcus phalangioides, exists on every continent on the planet except Antarctica, where it is believed to be too cold for them to live. They possess fangs that average 0.25mm in length and given the average human skin thickness varies from 0.5mm to 4mm, they lack the ability to produce a medically significant bite. The bite of the 'American daddy long legs' has been recorded to produce little more than a mild short-lived burning sensation. The venom, when collected and injected into mice has been shown to have a far less adverse reaction than the black widow spider. The urban legend that the daddy long legs has a powerful venom seems likely to have started because they are regularly capable of killing spiders that are capable of delivering fatal bites to humans. The reality is they are simply built to kill other spiders, and thus are far quicker.


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## thomasssss (Dec 18, 2012)

Wing_Nut said:


> Daddy long legs, Pholcus phalangioides, exists on every continent on the planet except Antarctica, where it is believed to be too cold for them to live. .


hahahahaha sorry but that just made me laugh so much , cheers sherlock i would of though spiders and insects thrived in the Antarctica


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## Wing_Nut (Dec 18, 2012)

thomasssss said:


> hahahahaha sorry but that just made me laugh so much , cheers sherlock i would of though spiders and insects thrived in the Antarctica



67 species of insects apparently do


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 19, 2012)

Sorry guys but the info that I provided was incorrect ,the website that I got it from gave me that information, I still have a lot of correct info that I got from books ,docos, ,and entomology videos. My bad ,I should have double checked that info before I posted it.:facepalm: One of those insects that live in Antarctica ,not sure how true it is, is the ice bug ,I know a small amount of info on this not much,. The ice bug's blood contains a rather strong anti-freeze that prevents the cold from killing it. It is rather small ,brown in colour ,lives beneath the snow ,has a similar body structure to that of a cricket and ,as most insects, has a hard body made of 'chitin'. I have no further info on this poticula species.


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## Umbral (Dec 19, 2012)

Look at the first post guys and then ask yourself if 90% of the posts have been on topic. If you would like to talk about something off topic please create a new thread about it, I really don't want to have to go through threads and remove half of what has been said.


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 19, 2012)

There is a lot more than one species of Daddy Long Legs. Members of the Family Pholcidae are commonly referred to by the that name or “Cellar Spiders”. Members of the Genus_ Pholcus__ are specifically termed Daddy Long Legs. A species list for this genus containing just short of 300 species can be found at this site… Pholcus - Wikipédia._

The species _Pholcus phalangioides _that has been mentioned originated in Europe and is more cold tolerant than most species. It is also more strongly associated with human habitation than other species and as a result has been introduced across the world. Despite this cosmopolitan global distribution, the areas of occurrence on each continent are far from continuous – in particular Africa, the Middle East, central and northern Eurasia and North America.

These spiders wrap their prey in silk to fully immobilize them before biting them. Where something enters their web that is considered too large, it is treated like a predator. The spider vibrates the network of webs to confuse the intruder and if that doesn’t work they will simply drop to the ground. So prey items are seldom much bigger than the spider.

In 2004 Mythbusters publicized comparative venom toxicity tests on mice as you mentioned. The toxicity of this Daddy Long Legs’ venom was clearly much lower than many other spiders. Since then an investigation on the effect of its venom on insects showed the venom to be not particularly effective and therefore quite mild in toxicity. On this show Adam Savage got this species of spider to bite him and reported that the bite produced a short-lived burning sensation. Whilst not conclusive, this does indicate the potential for envenomation of humans despite the short fangs and the comparatively thicker skin of humans. I would suggest that a biochemical assay of cutaneous and sub-cutaneous tissue would be required to put it beyond all doubt.

Just for interest sake, there is a common arachnid that is not a spider but is also known as a Daddy Long Legs. The other common name is Harvestmen. The most obvious difference between harvestmen and spiders is that in harvestmen the connection between the cephalothorax and abdomen is broad, so that the body appears to be a single oval structure. Harvestmen do not possess venom or spin webs but in my experience they will take residence in or near a vacated web of a Daddy Long Legs spider. This is no doubt facilitated by the fact the spider webs of Daddy Long Legs spiders do not have any adhesive (sticky) strands.

Blue


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## Gruni (Dec 19, 2012)

Umbral said:


> Look at the first post guys and then ask yourself if 90% of the posts have been on topic. If you would like to talk about something off topic please create a new thread about it, I really don't want to have to go through threads and remove half of what has bees said.



Apart from the spelling grammar posts is it really that bad if a thread like a conversation drifts onto a tangent? I'm finding the spider debate good reading TBH.

- - - Updated - - -



Reptiles4me said:


> Sorry guys but the info that I provided was incorrect ,the website that I got it from gave me that information, I still have a lot of correct info that I got from books ,docos, ,and entomology videos. My bad ,I should have double checked that info before I posted it.:facepalm:



In that case you should be careful what you post esp if adding the disclaimer...


Reptiles4me said:


> I have an extensive knowledge of arthropod's.


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## Stuart (Dec 19, 2012)

Guys and Gals, while spiders are an interesting species and I am enjoying reading the various posts on them, the discussion is off topic from the original post. My suggestion if this topic were to continue would be to start another thread in the relevant part of the forum where those interested could still participate without taking this thread further off topic.

S


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## Gruni (Dec 19, 2012)

Jeffa said:


> Yeah Womagaunt, knew what it is. Never seen one this small though. Does anyone on this site know wether or not Bandy's hatching cycle coincides with blind snakes hatching cycle? I know of plenty of termite mounds that blind snakes would call home but to assume that Bandy's would strictly eat at such a small size.........................................................



So where abouts are you based? Do you get a few of these around your place?


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## moosenoose (Dec 19, 2012)

That's very cute!


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 19, 2012)

The average recorded hatchling size of _Vermicella annulata _is 17 cm. The average recorded hatchling size of our largest Blind Snake _Ramphotyphlops nigrescens _is 12 cm. Other Blind Snake hatchlings vary from 9 cm to 11 cm. There is very limited information available on the reproductive timing of most Blind Snakes. However, those that we do know about lay their eggs in late summer and the young hatch out in autumn, the same timing as reproduction in the Bandy Bandy. So while a hatchling Bandy Bandy’s first few meals might be quite a mouth full, it would not take long for it to readily cope with the majority of available food items it might come across.

I would say the snake in the picture was midway between 20 cm and 25 cm TL. Professor Rick Shine states that from his data and studies, it appears that Bandy Bandys eat Blind Snakes only. 

If you are interested in why these snakes are so strongly banded, it is thought to be as result of the flicker fusion effect which would make it difficult for a predator to determine which direction the snake was travelling and therefore head from tail. What is flicker fusion? Eyes record a series of separate images (16 per second in humans) and the brain melds these together to produce smooth movement = flicker + fusion. This is what makes wagon wheels in old westerns appear to turn backwards as they gain speed. It is to do with the individual images capture on film and the position of the spokes with respect to the previous image. Our eye works a bit like the individual frames on a film. As the Bandy Bandy moves forward, our eyes capture separate images. If the position of the white bands in a given image capture is slightly behind the position of the white bands in the proceeding image capture, our mind interprets that as the white bands moving backwards. Reality is that they are moving forward.

Flicker fusion does not work well when caught out in the open, hence the fancy defence behave developed by this snake.

Is that on topic enough?

Blue


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## Gruni (Dec 19, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> Flicker fusion does not work well when caught out in the open, hence the fancy defence behaviour developed by this snake.
> 
> Blue



Which is what, Blue?


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## Jeffa (Dec 19, 2012)

Gruni said:


> So where abouts are you based? Do you get a few of these around your place?



Hi Gruni, I live in the Whitsundays mate (10 years to be precise) and have only ever seen 2 including this one.
A few mates have also seen some on hot humid nights. 
I would deem these guys to be very common around here due to the large ammount of termite nests in the area.


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## JasonL (Dec 19, 2012)

Daddy-long-legs Spider, Pholcus phalangioides - Australian Museum


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## cement (Dec 19, 2012)

Gruni said:


> Which is what, Blue?



They conveniently take a stance that somewhat resemble handles.


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## Bluetongue1 (Dec 19, 2012)

Or to put it another way they will lift up to half their body off the ground in a flat vertical arch that
presents their ventral surface in the vertical plane...


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## BIGBANG (Dec 19, 2012)

one my brother found hit on the road near glenn innis


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 28, 2012)

BIGBANG
I know this is a bit of dumb question but was that poor Bandy Bandy alive or dead when your brother found him? It would be nice to hear that he made it but being hit by a car would cause death or major injury so if it was dead then I could see why.


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