# Frogs!



## Friller2009 (Jan 6, 2021)

Hi I’m looking into getting some frogs.
I’m trying to find some Blue mountains tree frogs and have an enclosure already

I have a spare tank and would like to know what type of frog would do well. The tank is 36cm long, 24cm high and 22cm in width and it holds about 20 litres.

Also what is a great beginner frog species in nsw?


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## Sdaji (Jan 6, 2021)

For a great beginner frog you can't go past Green Tree Frogs. They're tough, cute, green... there's a reason They're one of the world's most popular frogs, and hands down the most popular Australian one.


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## Friller2009 (Jan 6, 2021)

Sdaji said:


> For a great beginner frog you can't go past Green Tree Frogs. They're tough, cute, green... there's a reason They're one of the world's most popular frogs, and hands down the most popular Australian one.


Thanks but they get too big and I don’t have a big enough enclosure


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## Sdaji (Jan 6, 2021)

Have fun


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## Herpetology (Jan 6, 2021)

Friller2009 said:


> I have a spare tank and would like to know what type of frog would do well


You were given an answer by a respected member of the community and you just completely dismissed it.

BM treefrogs are rare to find for sale and you arent likely to find any for sale ... cant find a single sale post on facebook or Reptile classified

red eye tree frogs are a good option for this size


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## Friller2009 (Jan 6, 2021)

Herptology said:


> You were given an answer by a respected member of the community and you just completely dismissed it.
> 
> BM treefrogs are rare to find for sale and you arent likely to find any for sale ... cant find a single sale post on facebook or Reptile classified
> 
> red eye tree frogs are a good option for this size


Sorry I didn’t mean to be rude I know that green tree frogs great for beginners but, I am sadly limited by space
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Sdaji said:


> Have fun


Thank you


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## Sdaji (Jan 7, 2021)

Herptology said:


> You were given an answer by a respected member of the community and you just completely dismissed it.
> 
> BM treefrogs are rare to find for sale and you arent likely to find any for sale ... cant find a single sale post on facebook or Reptile classified
> 
> red eye tree frogs are a good option for this size



I wouldn't suggest this species to a new frog keeper. They're a bit more sensitive and even experienced frog keepers sometimes have trouble with them. I've known people who've had no issues, but also a few frog keepers who have had these prone to dying, in collections where other frogs are doing fine.
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If you really must keep frogs in a tiny enclosure and you're a newbie, go for something common and easy. Generally speaking, common species are easier to keep. Rare specialist species generally have more specialist needs are less forgiving. Regardless of the size of the frog, it's more difficult to get conditions right in a smaller enclosure.


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## Friller2009 (Jan 7, 2021)

Sdaji said:


> I wouldn't suggest this species to a new frog keeper. They're a bit more sensitive and even experienced frog keepers sometimes have trouble with them. I've known people who've had no issues, but also a few frog keepers who have had these prone to dying, in collections where other frogs are doing fine.
> [automerge]1609977768[/automerge]
> If you really must keep frogs in a tiny enclosure and you're a newbie, go for something common and easy. Generally speaking, common species are easier to keep. Rare specialist species generally have more specialist needs are less forgiving. Regardless of the size of the frog, it's more difficult to get conditions right in a smaller enclosure.


Thanks for the advice
I’ve done some more research and have decided that spotted marsh frogs would do well in the tank. 
I just need to find some.


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## Sdaji (Jan 7, 2021)

They'd be a better choice. Not the most exciting frog to keep though. If you're going to bother keeping frogs you'd be better off just getting something slightly larger and getting some Green Tree Frogs. Frogs aren't particularly active, especially during the day, but unlike marsh frogs which spend their life living hiding under things, tree frogs will sit somewhere you can see them. Tree frogs are also easier to feed because they sit out in the open and can see the insects you put in (and Green Tree Frogs will readily hand feed which makes things easy and is also very fun) while marsh frogs are hidden most of the time meaning not only can you not see the, but they won't see the insects, often until after they've drowned.

It's always nicer to see new keepers succeed, have fun and become enthusiastic rather than fail or get bored and stop bothering.

Having said that, Spotted Marsh Frogs can be kept successfully if you set them up well. They were one of the first frogs I ever kept and I had fun with them (after I threw out my initial setup and made a much larger, totally different one).


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## Friller2009 (Jan 7, 2021)

Sdaji said:


> They'd be a better choice. Not the most exciting frog to keep though. If you're going to bother keeping frogs you'd be better off just getting something slightly larger and getting some Green Tree Frogs. Frogs aren't particularly active, especially during the day, but unlike marsh frogs which spend their life living hiding under things, tree frogs will sit somewhere you can see them. Tree frogs are also easier to feed because they sit out in the open and can see the insects you put in (and Green Tree Frogs will readily hand feed which makes things easy and is also very fun) while marsh frogs are hidden most of the time meaning not only can you not see the, but they won't see the insects, often until after they've drowned.
> 
> It's always nicer to see new keepers succeed, have fun and become enthusiastic rather than fail or get bored and stop bothering.
> 
> Having said that, Spotted Marsh Frogs can be kept successfully if you set them up well. They were one of the first frogs I ever kept and I had fun with them (after I threw out my initial setup and made a much larger, totally different one).


Thanks!


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## MissChams (Jan 7, 2021)

I vote spotted marsh frogs. I have some and they're not as hidey as I thought they'd be, especially when hungry. If you put the crickets in and sit still, it's pretty interesting to watch them hunt. They're pretty skittish around movement though, so you have to sit still. That said, I have a 2ft tank with a water section and can watch them jump and swim around.


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 7, 2021)

I started this response yesterday and there have been a couple more responses since then. I won’t change what I have written. I deliberately left out Limnodynastes species as you were quite explict in requesting info on tree frogs. However, I will say from experience that that the two species of Marsh Frogs commonly kept are definitely worthy of consideration if you are open to other genera.

From the dimensions stated, your spare tank is basically just a little narrower than a standard 3’ aquarium. 
CORRECTION: Your dimensions are stated in cm, and not inches, as I mistakenly was thinking. My sincere apologies for that. I have therefore deleted the remainder of this paragraph as it is based on my incorrect reading of the dimensions.

As already stated, the Red-eyed Tree Frog_ L. chloris_ is far and away the most likely to be readily available from general sources - in fact I noticed some for sale yesterday. ARC do provide a number of species for sale, but you would need to check with them on availability, and the practicalities and legalities of obtaining them given your location. ARC often have the Dainty Tree Frog _L. gracilenta_ (perhaps not the best beginner species due to its tropical origins) and the Southern Brown Tree Frog _L. ewingi_ available.

My suggestion would be to get started with something like _L. chloris_, which are pretty awesome little characters. This will enable you to develop your keeping skills. Then in the future keep an eye out for _L. citropa_, or whatever it is you ultimately want to keep, so that when and if it becomes available you are ready. You might decide to add another enclosure or simply sell off your chloris.

There are a just a few general keeping points on tree frogs that I would make…

Firstly, do NOT keep big frogs and little frogs together. Frogs are indiscriminate carnivores and they will eat most any living thing they can fit in their mouth, including other frogs, including their own species.
The majority of Litoria species are terrestrial. For these it is therefore appropriate to have solid substrate and not all water at the base. For example, all chloris needs is a shallow dish of fresh water in which they can comfortably immerse just their body in order to rehydrate. A larger water body is only required when and if you intend to breed them.
The majority of Litoria like to climb. So provide them with the means to do so and plenty of horizontal or gently sloping perches up high.
The lid on an enclosure should be soft and not metal as these frogs can damage their snouts by jumping into the screen in an effort to investigate beyond their enclosure.
Similarly, never use sharp or abrasive furnishing that the fogs may injure themselves on when alighting from a higher perch (either intentionally or otherwise). Smooth river stones and pebbles, and smooth wooden ornaments are appropriate.
To further facilitate climbing and extend the volume of your tank, a soft-screened frame can be used instead of a lid that is level with the tank top.
It is desirable to include include artificial or real plants as furnishings, so that inhabitants feel less exposed and vulnerable when utilizing existing perches. If the leaves are solid enough then the frogs will utilize them as perches as well.
Live plants are a really good addition to a tree frog enclosure as they will assist in keeping up the desired humidity level. I am happy to make some suggestions if you you would like.

Oops. That was supposed to be just a *few*. I think I may have gotten a little carried away there. Never mind, hopefully there are some useful bits in there that you may not have been aware of.


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## Friller2009 (Jan 8, 2021)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I started this response yesterday and there have been a couple more responses since then. I won’t change what I have written. I deliberately left out Limnodynastes species as you were quite explict in requesting info on tree frogs. However, I will say from experience that that the two species of Marsh Frogs commonly kept are definitely worthy of consideration if you are open to other genera.
> 
> From the dimensions stated, your spare tank is basically just a little narrower than a standard 3’ aquarium. I am not sure where you got your enclosure size information from, but to quote from the ARC care sheet for _Litoria caerulea_: A standard 3ft (90cm) aquarium would adequately house three to four adult frogs.” ARC stands for Amphibian Research Centre, a private organization located in Victoria, with an establish reliable reputation. You could, if you wanted to, start with half a dozen or so young, small GTFs. It may be that you just don’t wish to keep GTFs as they get very large and can become quite dumpy in shape. Unfortunately there is no point in providing an expansive list of other potential species if you cannot obtain them.
> 
> ...


thanks!


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Jan 8, 2021)

Can't beat GTF's... I love mine, unbeknown to most people, frogs always have been my biggest passion since I was 5 years old. Turtles are what I've committed all my time and effort to but frogs are my #1. GTF's are also the world's longest lived species, capable of living 30 years in captivity and are a joy except from November to February when the males call (croak) relentlessly. I have 6 GTF's 5 of which are male... good times. Lol
I definitely like the colour variations in GTF's, they are by no means all the same.

I have a healthy wild population here in my back yard.... have caught pairs in amplexus during many a storm... they visit my outdoor woody colony for a free feed and sometimes make their way inside my house. My personal all time favourite frog species.







My captive GTF's are kept in a ReptileOne 3×2×2 arboreal green tree frog enclosure. Height (vertical space) is more important to this species than horizontal space. They love to climb upwards.


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## Friller2009 (Jan 8, 2021)

Flaviemys purvisi said:


> Can't beat GTF's... I love mine, unbeknown to most people, frogs always have been my biggest passion since I was 5 years old. Turtles are what I've committed all my time and effort to but frogs are my #1. GTF's are also the world's longest lived species, capable of living 30 years in captivity and are a joy except from November to February when the males call (croak) relentlessly. I have 6 GTF's 5 of which are male... good times. Lol
> I definitely like the colour variations in GTF's, they are by no means all the same.
> 
> I have a healthy wild population here in my back yard.... have caught pairs in amplexus during many a storm... they visit my outdoor woody colony for a free feed and sometimes make their way inside my house. My personal all time favourite frog species.
> ...





Flaviemys purvisi said:


> Can't beat GTF's... I love mine, unbeknown to most people, frogs always have been my biggest passion since I was 5 years old. Turtles are what I've committed all my time and effort to but frogs are my #1. GTF's are also the world's longest lived species, capable of living 30 years in captivity and are a joy except from November to February when the males call (croak) relentlessly. I have 6 GTF's 5 of which are male... good times. Lol
> I definitely like the colour variations in GTF's, they are by no means all the same.
> 
> I have a healthy wild population here in my back yard.... have caught pairs in amplexus during many a storm... they visit my outdoor woody colony for a free feed and sometimes make their way inside my house. My personal all time favourite frog species.
> ...


Thanks if I had more space I would definitely have GTFs as they are readily available, eat anything that moves and are super cute

I’m going to a relative’s house who has an old enclosure which she kept orange eyed tree frogs in. I will most likely have that enclosure set up for orange eyed tree frogs by the end of the year
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Flaviemys purvisi said:


> Can't beat GTF's... I love mine, unbeknown to most people, frogs always have been my biggest passion since I was 5 years old. Turtles are what I've committed all my time and effort to but frogs are my #1. GTF's are also the world's longest lived species, capable of living 30 years in captivity and are a joy except from November to February when the males call (croak) relentlessly. I have 6 GTF's 5 of which are male... good times. Lol
> I definitely like the colour variations in GTF's, they are by no means all the same.
> 
> I have a healthy wild population here in my back yard.... have caught pairs in amplexus during many a storm... they visit my outdoor woody colony for a free feed and sometimes make their way inside my house. My personal all time favourite frog species.
> ...


Yep probably the downside to keeping 5 male GTFs


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## Bluetongue1 (Jan 10, 2021)

@Friller2009
I amended one paragraph of my previous post and annoted that change in the post itself, with an explanation. For the same reason I redone this post. I think I win the dunce cap and get to sit in the corner! Am not sure how I managed it but my head processed the dimensions of your spare tank as inches, despite your clear statement of centimetres. Sorry about my inability to read plain English. The actual size of the tank absolutely reduces what can be kept in it and I could have cut to the chase much sooner.

That really is a pretty small tank and not well suited to keeping tree frogs due to the lack of height. It could probably accommodate a couple of Marsh Frogs, as they are essentially ground-level dwellers. The only tree frog I’d consider small enough for that size tank is the Eastern Dwarf Tree Frog (aka Sedge Frog) _Litoria fallax_. Tree frogs are active leapers and need more base area than an equivalent sized terrestrial dweller. Despite the small size of _L. fallax_, I would still be inclined to put an extension on the top of the tank to give them more room to climb.

By the way, _Litoria xanthomera_ is commonly called the Orange-thighed Tree Frog or the Northern Red-eyed Tree Frog.


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