# Exotic keepers - lets have a chat



## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2009)

Hi all, 

I am in the process of researching thoroughly the exotic debate. 

This will go toward writing an article for Scales and tails in the coming months, (once i finally get it finished). 

In order to do this article properly i have been speaking to various people from various places about the general idea of whether exotics should be or not be legalised and what are the problems associated.

So what i am after now is exotic keepers. It is evident that people on the forum keep exotics and possible breed and trade in them. So what i am hoping is for a few guys to give me a call. 

I dont need your name or anything like that, just give me a call so we can have a chat about it. The aim here is to get the side of hte debate of

"Why I Keep exotics and do what i do is because ...." 


Call generally anytime, except after big dog goes to bed. And have your say as to why you do it.

Firstly though, thankyou to those that have been taking the time to speak to me on this issue. 

Thank you 
Dustin 
0407 015 739


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## coastal-shagg (Jun 10, 2009)

That would definatly be an interesting read. Better and more conclusive then the jumble the people scribble on here. Looking forward to it


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## andyscott (Jun 10, 2009)

I hope you get a few calls Dustin, as I think that would be an interesting read.

Although I doubt that anyone keeping exotics would risk outing themselves.


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## snakecharma (Jun 10, 2009)

well they dont really have to out themselves 

just call from a mobile and hide your ID and just dont go into too many details away. I hope you get the calls you need Dustin and will be looking forward to your article

and before you get the wrong idea, no i dont keep exotics but they dam shore interest me!!


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## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2009)

Thats right, no one is going to be outing themselves as i dont need anyones names, or addresses. The closest we get to pinning you down is knowing your state if you want to give that up. 

But without people talking about it, then we can only speculate what the reasons are. By only speculating you allow the standard response of "exotic keepers are irresponsible and selfish" to continue 

Dustin


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## ivonavich (Jun 10, 2009)

SlothHead said:


> Call generally anytime, except after big dog goes to bed.


 
Ex Novocastrian by any chance?


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## lightning (Jun 10, 2009)

The one thing I don't understand is why the rules for reptiles are different to other animals?
Nearly everyone keeps exotics, cats, dogs, rabbits, most pet birds, most pets in general kept are not native to australia. If they are not native what are they?
There are exotic reptiles that have been in Australia for many many years so if deseases is a concern it shouldn't be. I do agree not to import reptiles in, but what is already here is here.
The other thing I don't understand is that exotic reptiles as other reptiles are kept in an enclosure. Many other pets such as cats arn't and look at the damage they cause to our native wildlife, we are still aloud to keep and breed as many cats as we want with no ristrictions maybe they should be on licence.
If cats are aloud then I say yes to lepard geckoes!!!
At least if exotics were brought onto a licence system the numbers could be observed.
Why are exotic birds aloud and exotic reptiles not? Exotic birds are not even licenced.
In cold victoria most exotics wouldn't survive outside an enclosure so I would really like to know what risk an exotic reptile may cause??
Those that are agaist exotics often express their opinions on here and I always think, I bet they have an exotic pet of some sort and just don't think of it that way.


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## Retic (Jun 10, 2009)

Lightning, the problem is you are looking at this issue logically, we are talking about a Government department here


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## FROGGIESrCUTEo_O (Jun 10, 2009)

boa said:


> Lightning, the problem is you are looking at this issue logically, we are talking about a Government department here



:lol: Good point there


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## lightning (Jun 10, 2009)

haha true, it would be nice if they looked at it logically


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## whity (Jun 10, 2009)

Spot on lightning


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## Gecko_ProCs (Jun 10, 2009)

Lightning
If exotics got out into our environment it could be devastating to our native reptiles
I mean Australia is a reptile paradise.

Alot of exotics can out compete the natives for food, use the natives for food spread disease and so on.
and yes i am aware cats are a threat to our native animals but why add more pests to the mix?

Some species could do so well here they could erupt into plague numbers (like a certain introduced toad).

You hear of so many escape stories about reptiles that i don't think its worth the risk.

I mean i love some exotic species and would love to keep them but in my mind the natives come first.

just my opinion.


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## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks to who ever that was that just called - it is really appreciated, but i would like to talk to at least 10 people so that we can get a bit of a broad spectrum of views. 

Thanks again
Dustin


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## cockney red (Jun 10, 2009)

SlothHead said:


> Thanks to who ever that was that just called - it is really appreciated, but i would like to talk to at least 10 people so that we can get a bit of a broad spectrum of views.
> 
> Thanks again
> Dustin


Ok, give you a ring in five.


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## -Matt- (Jun 10, 2009)

Am really looking forward to reading this article, hope you get what you are after. Good luck with it Dustin.


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## Lewy (Jun 10, 2009)

Gecko_ProCs said:


> Lightning
> If exotics got out into our environment it could be devastating to our native reptiles
> I mean Australia is a reptile paradise.
> 
> ...


 

Totaly Agree 
Just imagine a plague of Boa's or anaconda's in Australia it would be devastating to out native herps. People should be happy with what we have in this beautiful country of ours 

Lewy


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## Fuscus (Jun 10, 2009)

What pollie is going to say "vote for me and I'll let rattlesnakes and 8 meter pythons". While the idea might find favor on this forum I don't think it would go down well in the real world.


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## abbott75 (Jun 10, 2009)

I don't think people have any idea how many are out there. I worked in an aquarium with a reptile semifocus, and at least 1/3 of the reptile customers had exotic or unlicenced herps. They are everywhere.


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## lightning (Jun 10, 2009)

There are many Exotic reptiles already in Australia and other than the cane toad have not done any harm to to the enviroment or our nativies to my knowledge.

The difference of the cane toad is that it was never ment to be a pet, it was introduced and people encoraged it to populate as can toads were used as a biological control agent. (It wasn't one pet that got out)

I just believe that if there were a permit avaliable for Exotic reptiles at least it wouldn't all be black market business. I think that there is more of a risk of them being let go into the wild when someone cant sell something leagally. 

I'm not saying add more exotics, but they are already here and most have been for longer than any of us.


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## lizardsNturtles (Jun 10, 2009)

my sides with lightning


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## Lonewolf (Jun 10, 2009)

I reckon that licensed exotics would be one of the smarter ways we could go about this. 

Many times i've seen people ask on this forum about corn snakes and the *** kicking they get is just unreal. 
What if you scare them that bad that they get it in their head that you are going to do something about it 
so instead of keeping the snake or handing it to some one that will "take care" of it, they just let it go in the bush? 

Then when that happens you're all gonna be sitting there scratching your heads thinking to yourselves if they were on licence this might not have happend.. 

No, i do not own exotics and am not wanting to get any either. 

But i do know people that have them and when i tell them that it's illegal in Aus they tell me that they will just let it go.


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## waruikazi (Jun 10, 2009)

lightning said:


> There are many Exotic reptiles already in Australia and other than the cane toad have not done any harm to to the enviroment or our nativies to my knowledge.
> 
> The difference of the cane toad is that it was never ment to be a pet, it was introduced and people encoraged it to populate as can toads were used as a biological control agent. (It wasn't one pet that got out)
> 
> ...



Haven't done any damage yet. Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it wont happen. Fortunately the authorities have learnt from past problems form other animal groups like birds, fish, mammals and insects where an exotic species has run rampant in our ecosystem and done what they can to avoid it happening with reptiles. 

That's not to say that it isn't already happening. When i was working as a snake catcher i found many snakes that were exotic to my area, who knows what they could have done to the gene pool. My predescessor and mentor had caught several corn snakes in darwin. Who knows what esle is out there in the wild. 

The way you're talking about exotics you seem to think there is some big conspiracy going on just to reptile keepers. The fact is the government bodies are doing what they can to protect our ecosystem form any more damage. You would do well to realise that.

Bring on this study. I'd love to know what your findings are.

Edit:
Sorry i was'nt gonna make comment in this thread because it will just blow out into an argument but i guess it's too late for that. But bone headed attitudes like some that are being voiced here just about make me rage! Has anyone heard of what has happened in the Everglades? Or forgot about AHG's in North Australia? I mean serisouly, come on! I'd love to own some of the large vipers but unfortunately alot of people just can't be trusted to keep there pets in their cages. Learn form the past and be happy with what we've got.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 10, 2009)

lightning said:


> There are many Exotic reptiles already in Australia and other than the cane toad have not done any harm to to the enviroment or our nativies to my knowledge.


 
Well there's sliders for one, maybe just maybe there aren't more because they are illegal, and numbers are somewhat reduced due to this??


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## Kris (Jun 10, 2009)

Fuscus said:


> What pollie is going to say "vote for me and I'll let rattlesnakes and 8 meter pythons". While the idea might find favor on this forum I don't think it would go down well in the real world.




You mean this isn't the real world Fuscus? With that attitude you mustn't be a true APSer.


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## snake_boy (Jun 10, 2009)

cockney red said:


> Ok, give you a ring in five.



:shock:


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## SlothHead (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks for chat - our email address is 
[email protected]

Thanks again
Dustin


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## SlothHead (Jun 11, 2009)

still fielding calls, so if you want to have your say then give us a call

Thanks 
Dustin


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## gillsy (Jun 11, 2009)

We keep exotic reptiles everyday, everyone that keeps a reptile that is not native to their area is keeping an exotic to some degree.

Carpets being the most readily available you don't have plague proportions of them. If something is licensed I dont' see how it could be any worse than keeping ours. 

D


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## Jimbobulan (Jun 11, 2009)

Other exotics like cats kill our wildlife and they're not licenced, no numbers are kept either. I agree that if a licence is introduced for exotic reptiles then we'd have less problems because exotic breeders couldnt sell them to just anyone. and the government can keep track of the exotics numbers.


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## junglepython2 (Jun 11, 2009)

Jimbobulan said:


> I agree that if a licence is introduced for exotic reptiles then we'd have less problems because exotic breeders couldnt sell them to just anyone. and the government can keep track of the exotics numbers.


 
Lol yes I'm sure all the people that are currently keeping them illegally, will suddenly play by the rules and only sell them to licensed keepers if they are legalised.


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## waruikazi (Jun 11, 2009)

junglepython2 said:


> Lol yes I'm sure all the people that are currently keeping them illegally, will suddenly play by the rules and only sell them to licensed keepers if they are legalised.



Didn't you know that all native reptiles in Australia are held on licence? No one would be silly enough to keep them without a permit.


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## Lewy (Jun 11, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> Didn't you know that all native reptiles in Australia are held on licence? No one would be silly enough to keep them without a permit.


 

LOL thats great hehehehehe


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## cement (Jun 11, 2009)

I find it strange that people think that their measly few years as a herp keeper overules the millenium of a natural habitat.

And then I remember the words ego and greed.


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## Just_Joshin (Jun 11, 2009)

Done no damage?? Sliders to our local turt species.......Blue mountains and its corn snake beginnings......need i mention Burms and the everglades in the states.........


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## Jimbobulan (Jun 11, 2009)

I didnt mean that all the illeagal breeders would suddenly go legit, but there market would dwindle if people could get them leagally. No one would buy one illigally if all they need is to pay a little cash to get a licence and no risk of fines or loosing the animal. Also not all exotic reptiles should be legalised, studies should be performed and the like. A few years ago i got the idea of keeping hamsters. I found they were illeagal here but i contacted the authorities and they told me that if i do a study to show what impact they would have on our environment they could be legalised if certain criteria was met.


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## Lewy (Jun 11, 2009)

Anyone who thinks that ANY exotic animal that is introduced to this country will be fine has rocks in there head 
Yes other animals have been introduced over the years and look what that has done and for the people who have said that owning a native Australian snake in a state that there not found in is the same as having a exotic snake is also dreaming. If a diamond gets loose in the NT its just simply going to die But if a Boa or a corn snake or reticulated get out and breed then we are in trouble 

People really need to have a think about what they are doing and not to be so ignorant to what could and would happen if these animals where to get out and breed in our country 

There I have said what I wanted to say LOL


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## Stranger (Jun 11, 2009)

Some People Just dont care tho.


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## jessb (Jun 11, 2009)

I just think it is interesting to compare the arguments here to the arguments posted a few months ago about the importation of the Savannah Cat. The company importing the cats was going to be very strictly licensed, the cats were going to only be sold neutered, they would have to be kept in escape-proof enclosures and all owners would be monitored. 

The uproar here on APS alone was enormous with claims that they would eventually escape, irresponsible owners would dump them in the bush when they tired of them and they would decimate our wildlife. 

But all of a sudden, now that we are discussing something that everyone wants (I mean c'mon, who wouldn't get a chameleon if they were legal?!) these exact same arguments are being ignored in favour of pretty pisspoor excuses - "_But we already have heaps of exotics and they aren't doing any harm_", "_Legalising_ _it will bring it off the black market and allow it to be regulated_" and my personal favourite "_There are already heaps of other non-native species like CATS :shock: and RABBITS :shock: here, so why not exotic reptiles_?" 

Really, haven't we learnt our lesson? Just because mistakes have been made in the past regarding importation of exotics, doesn't mean that we should keep doing it because _you_ want a boa!!!


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## waruikazi (Jun 11, 2009)

Jimbobulan said:


> I didnt mean that all the illeagal breeders would suddenly go legit, but there market would dwindle if people could get them leagally. *No one would buy one illigally if all they need is to pay a little cash to get a licence and no risk of fines or loosing the animal.* Also not all exotic reptiles should be legalised, studies should be performed and the like. A few years ago i got the idea of keeping hamsters. I found they were illeagal here but i contacted the authorities and they told me that if i do a study to show what impact they would have on our environment they could be legalised if certain criteria was met.



You have a very simplistic view on our hobby. Have a read of my above tongue in cheek comments. There are numerous people who own currently obtainable reptiles illegally ergo aussie natives that are not on permit.


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## Lewy (Jun 11, 2009)

jessb said:


> I just think it is interesting to compare the arguments here to the arguments posted a few months ago about the importation of the Savannah Cat. The company importing the cats was going to be very strictly licensed, the cats were going to only be sold neutered, they would have to be kept in escape-proof enclosures and all owners would be monitored.
> 
> The uproar here on APS alone was enormous with claims that they would eventually escape, irresponsible owners would dump them in the bush when they tired of them and they would decimate our wildlife.
> 
> ...


 

Dame that was very well said it just a pity that not every one can be like us and care for our ecological systems

Lewy


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## Stranger (Jun 11, 2009)

.. The reason people buy illegal snake such as corns and stuff if the Looks.. and patterns. there everywhere.. you just have to know someone who knows someone.. I personally am totally against it because of the issues it could cause to our eco system.


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## Kirby (Jun 11, 2009)

personally, 

species that arent likely to develop a fighting chance and population in the wild, eg. Igs or Chams.. why not licence them? but Boa's and the like... could you imagine...


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## Bushfire (Jun 11, 2009)

Heres food for thought. Of all the exotics threads every single argument put forward for the against side can and has been previously argued for against natives. Its interesting to note that there is a clear majority of people that would keep exotics if legally allowed. Its a major reason why the exotic topics keep coming up and probably will till something changes.

I also highly doubt that exotics are flooding into Australia any more, since 9/11 and the resulting tighting of entry points. Yer they are still coming in but in nowhere near the numbers people think, now it would be more prue luck or organised corruption getting through. 90% of the exotics in Australia have been captive bred here and in alot of cases for 20 odd years (No wonder they are in such numbers).

For the argument of people should just be happy with what they have. Imagine if this was put into practice before we were enjoying the variety many states do now, I can told you right now it would be alot tougher and less species and more conditions. Say that to states like WA, Tassie and to a lesser degree Victoria, where limitations are in place and in some states enforcement is way over the top. I dont know if it will ever happen but I encourage the push for the legalisation of exotics in Australia. For those keeping illegally, I dont blame you or treat you as a crim in my eyes but I just cant or wont take the risk of having illegals in my collection.


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## waruikazi (Jun 11, 2009)

Bushfire said:


> Heres food for thought. Of all the exotics threads every single argument put forward for the against side can and has been previously argued for against natives. Its interesting to note that there is a clear majority of people that would keep exotics if legally allowed. Its a major reason why the exotic topics keep coming up and probably will till something changes.
> 
> I also highly doubt that exotics are flooding into Australia any more, since 9/11 and the resulting tighting of entry points. Yer they are still coming in but in nowhere near the numbers people think, now it would be more prue luck or organised corruption getting through. 90% of the exotics in Australia have been captive bred here and in alot of cases for 20 odd years (No wonder they are in such numbers).
> 
> For the argument of people should just be happy with what they have. Imagine if this was put into practice before we were enjoying the variety many states do now, I can told you right now it would be alot tougher and less species and more conditions. Say that to states like WA, Tassie and to a lesser degree Victoria, where limitations are in place and in some states enforcement is way over the top. I dont know if it will ever happen but I encourage the push for the legalisation of exotics in Australia. For those keeping illegally, I dont blame you or treat you as a crim in my eyes but I just cant or wont take the risk of having illegals in my collection.



Well i'd like to keep a monkey. I'm sure lots of people would like a monkey. Look at all the other countries that are allowed to keep monkeys. But poor me has to be content with a dog.


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## Bushfire (Jun 11, 2009)

Its clear you misread my post I suggest you re-read it.


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## pythons73 (Jun 12, 2009)

gillsy said:


> We keep exotic reptiles everyday, everyone that keeps a reptile that is not native to their area is keeping an exotic to some degree.
> Having a reptile Thats NOT native to your and escapes,could and most likely would do more damage to our natives,than any exotic would.Thats were hybridisation comes into play,but we wont go there for now,otherwise this will turn into a big debate..With exotics being on license,it would reduce the amount being smuggled into the country,not to say their here in the thousands any how.But it will NEVER happen..


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## waruikazi (Jun 12, 2009)

Bushfire said:


> Its clear you misread my post I suggest you re-read it.



You're saying that we shouldn't settle for what we have already. What am i misreading?


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## Chimera (Jun 12, 2009)

lightning said:


> At least if exotics were brought onto a licence system the numbers could be observed.



I've seen this statement thrown around in a few discussions on this topic and it is utter rubbish. The minute you allow ball pythons, retics, burms, red tail boas, blood pythons etc to be kept in Australia there will be an increase in morphs being smuggled from the US and Europe to be illicitly added to local licenses.

When people look at it logically there are usually a few caveats that come out:

1) Invasive species - "Well we could restrict the list of allowed species"
Those not allowed will still be smuggled.
2) Diseases - "We could implement mandatory quarantine or restrict imported"
How long do you quarantine for reptiles??? There will still be a smuggling market for those that cant afford the expense or don't have an import license.
3) "We could restrict the list of allowed species to those already in Australia"
Those not allowed will still be smuggled.

On this particular topic I think the regulation bodies are closer to the mark than we are. We seem to be viewing this through rose coloured glasses because it is what we want. If we approached this more logically then perhaps a proper damage mitigation process could be implemented.

There may well be a compelling argument to allow the keeping of exotics, but a reduction in smuggling is definitely not one of them. The argument over mammalian and avarian imports also falls short as this right would be taken away if it could (it is far easier to give new rights to people then take them away).

There may well be a compelling argument against keeping exotics, but species invasiveness isn't one of them either. I think you'll find that Red Eared Slider and Corn Snake issues have come about because people have had no other recourse when they decide the risk is too great. How many do you think would kill their beloved pet rather than release.


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## gillsy (Jun 12, 2009)

Bushfire said:


> Heres food for thought. Of all the exotics threads every single argument put forward for the against side can and has been previously argued for against natives. Its interesting to note that there is a clear majority of people that would keep exotics if legally allowed. Its a major reason why the exotic topics keep coming up and probably will till something changes.
> 
> I also highly doubt that exotics are flooding into Australia any more, since 9/11 and the resulting tighting of entry points. Yer they are still coming in but in nowhere near the numbers people think, now it would be more prue luck or organised corruption getting through. 90% of the exotics in Australia have been captive bred here and in alot of cases for 20 odd years (No wonder they are in such numbers).
> 
> For the argument of people should just be happy with what they have. Imagine if this was put into practice before we were enjoying the variety many states do now, I can told you right now it would be alot tougher and less species and more conditions. Say that to states like WA, Tassie and to a lesser degree Victoria, where limitations are in place and in some states enforcement is way over the top. I dont know if it will ever happen but I encourage the push for the legalisation of exotics in Australia. For those keeping illegally, I dont blame you or treat you as a crim in my eyes but I just cant or wont take the risk of having illegals in my collection.


 
Very good points and my thoughts exactly, you have written it better than I could.

Why are Victorians pushing for more species available, why aren't they happy with what they have.

Why did we want woma's on class 1, why aren't teh class 1 people happy with what they have.

There are valid points to both sides, but some of the points are childish and contradictory.


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## Sel (Jun 12, 2009)

gillsy said:


> Very good points and my thoughts exactly, you have written it better than I could.
> 
> Why are Victorians pushing for more species available, why aren't they happy with what they have.
> 
> ...



People will always want what they can't have,doesnt matter what it is...and if its illegal, they want it even more..people are stupid!

So, if exotic reptiles are introduced to Australia and allowed to be kept etc, how bout elephants?? Lions?? Doesnt matter if the elephants stomp on people..hmm maybe i could get a Giraffe!?


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## gillsy (Jun 12, 2009)

People want what they can't argument is such a lame excuse.

People are still going to want chameleons if they were legal, more people are going to want them because they're legal.

There is so many exotics going around at the moment, why not at least have some sort of registration so they can be tracked.


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## Chrisreptile (Jun 12, 2009)

Victoria cant even keep Rough Scaled Pythons, Amyae, Boyds Forest Dragons and many more of our native wildlife....why would they let us keep a Ball Python or a Chameleon instead?


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## Sel (Jun 12, 2009)

gillsy said:


> People want what they can't argument is such a lame excuse.
> 
> People are still going to want chameleons if they were legal, more people are going to want them because they're legal.
> 
> There is so many exotics going around at the moment, why not at least have some sort of registration so they can be tracked.



I dont want a chameleon


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## waruikazi (Jun 12, 2009)

gillsy said:


> Very good points and my thoughts exactly, you have written it better than I could.
> 
> Why are Victorians pushing for more species available, why aren't they happy with what they have.
> 
> ...



All of us have native species that we can't keep. In the territory i can't keep tigers out right and i can't keep dangerous vens unless i live in the middle of dingo woop woop. 

I'm content with that, not necesarily happy but i am content. You know why? Because keeping reptiles is a privalige not a right. We should be thankful for what we've got, not complaining about what we haven't.


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## marty (Jun 12, 2009)

might be a good time to get the hooded chameleon I've always wanted...lol.


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## =bECS= (Jun 12, 2009)

MzSel said:


> I dont want a chameleon



I do! Id keep one if they were legal too


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## Jimbobulan (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm not pushing for legalisation of exotic reptiles, i was merely putting forward an argument for it for disscussion. If i didn't wan't exotics i would have put forward one agianst. I would never want to risk more damage to our ecosystem just to keep one for my satisfaction. Sure exotics are cool but our animals are just as good anyway! I doubt it will happen anyway, if it did people would still take advantage of it and we'd be worse off than we are now.
One more thing, don't get too angry about peoples posts, a forum is a place for opinions to be expressed and disscusssed (no matter how dumb).


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## =bECS= (Jun 12, 2009)

Jimbobulan said:


> One more thing, don't get too angry about peoples posts, a forum is a place for opinions to be expressed and disscusssed (no matter how dumb).



:lol: you havent been here long have you :lol:


I would still keep a chameleon and also an iguana....... 
I doubt things will change anytime soon though, so ill have to settle for seeing them in zoos and the like.

Looking forward to the article, should be a good read...


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## Jimbobulan (Jun 12, 2009)

No i havnt been here long, but i'm guessing that people get frustrated with others around here easily. Awell i guess ruffeling a few feathers makes for good disscussion.


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## Beardieboy (Jun 12, 2009)

We have "exotics" like cats and dogs and birds, and it's not good for our environment. But it's a lot easier for a government to not make new mistakes, than to fix the ones in the past. So although the principle might be the same, unfortunately reptiles are the last ones to be dealt with so we get restrictions that have arisen because of past mistakes with other animal species and types. Sucks to be us, but it's for the benefit of our great country. It would be awful if tourists in 50 years couldn't go walking through the rainforests enjoying our gorgeous reptiles in their natural habitat because they've been out-competed by boas etc. 

I know it's been said but just look at the Everglades...


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## Niall (Jun 12, 2009)

Before all of you Eastern people want exotics adding to the keeping list (NSW and VIC),
Just think how many reptiles you have on the keepers list (around 3 or 400?) why can’t you just stick to them? We in WA are only allowed to keep 42 species of reptiles, yer you might be just greedy and wanting other reptiles what you can’t keep, I bet no one keeps every single reptile on your keeping list!

Think of WA here we are only allowed WA species.
We are only allowed to keep 4 species of Pythons all native to WA, we are not allowed to import Pythons from the East even though they might be allowed on our keeper's list because of you exotic keepers who bought IMD into Australia you have spoilt it for thousands of people!!! Great work losers!!


The only thing I can say to you Exotic wanters is *STOP* being greedy and grow the hell up we have great native reptiles we don’t need our environment looking like the US!!!!


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## chondrogreen (Jun 12, 2009)

Thats all it is. Wanting what we can't have.
I know if it ever became legal to keep them I would no longer want the exotics I keep


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## cockney red (Jun 13, 2009)

jessb said:


> i just think it is interesting to compare the arguments here to the arguments posted a few months ago about the importation of the savannah cat. The company importing the cats was going to be very strictly licensed, the cats were going to only be sold neutered, they would have to be kept in escape-proof enclosures and all owners would be monitored.
> 
> The uproar here on aps alone was enormous with claims that they would eventually escape, irresponsible owners would dump them in the bush when they tired of them and they would decimate our wildlife.
> 
> ...


nuff said.....


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## fine_jungles (Jun 13, 2009)

Exotics are cheaper and more colorful.

of course they would be released! ,if you think they would be controlled 
your kidding yourself and if the government thinks they can be... Australia is doomd


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## GrumpyTheSnake (Jun 13, 2009)

snakecharma said:


> just call from a mobile and hide your ID and just dont go into too many details away.QUOTE]
> 
> or if you dial 1831 before the phone number, it hides your number. Any caller ID comes up as private.


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## ADZz_93 (Jun 13, 2009)

cockney red said:


> nuff said.....





chondrogreen said:


> Thats all it is. Wanting what we can't have.
> I know if it ever became legal to keep them I would no longer want the exotics I keep


yep, its like everything, people always want what they cant have. if they were legal, people wouldn't want them anymore than they want our natives.....if that makes sence ?


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## Jungle_Fever1 (Jun 13, 2009)

lol NSW cant even get reptiles into pet shops, so i dont see exotics being on licence in my life time...

i personally dont mind the look of the exotic species. but atm nothing comes to mind that id like to keep..

i think also Australian Breeders would suffer a fair bit. 
just to keep our own natives we have to go through all the log book crap, imagine the processes we would go through for exotics


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## Retic (Jun 13, 2009)

I can't see anything changing really, exotic reptiles will just continue to be bred and traded in the 1000's unregulated but as long as someone gets busted with a few Leopard Geckos or a Corn Snake the masses will assume a good job is being done and all will be good in the world


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## Lollypop (Jun 13, 2009)

I want a Komodo Dragon, to keep & love, & send the naughty kids in to give it a pat........

I haven't been to 2/3's of Australia, yet I've been overseas - it was *much* more interesting!!!(to my knowledge, seeing as I haven't seen the rest of Australia to compare?)

We're never happy with what we've got, licenced or not........
The black market continues, licenced or not.........


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## antaresia_boy (Jun 13, 2009)

waruikazi said:


> Because keeping reptiles is a privalige not a right. We should be thankful for what we've got, not complaining about what we haven't.


 
Thats a very good point.

some exots are very nice, but i'm happy with the natives.

Hot some more stuff to say, trying to work out how to word it so i'll post back tomorrow when i've had a bit more of a think about it, but this is a very good conversation. And sorry to Sloth if this isn't quite how you wanted your thread to end up 

also, havent heard of the everglades incident...could somebody sum it up or give us a link to something to read?

thanks,

James


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## pythons73 (Jun 14, 2009)

We should be thankful for what we've got, not complaining about what we haven't.[/QUOTE]
You hit the nail on the head there.The NPW cant do much about the exotics that are already here,a few ppl here and there get caught with a corn snake,thats hardly going to make a impact in the numbers.This situation about exotics in Aus will NOT change in our life time,it cant be policed now,its hardly going to get any better.....


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## gillsy (Jun 14, 2009)

fine_jungles said:


> Exotics are cheaper and more colorful.


 
Where are you buying your exotics, because they're definately not cheaper than natives.


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## Jimbobulan (Jun 15, 2009)

Hey i was wondering, do bikies trade in illegal exotics alot? I've never been offered any at all but i heard its a bigger problem in NSW. Is that true?


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## notechistiger (Jun 15, 2009)

gillsy said:


> Where are you buying your exotics, because they're definately not cheaper than natives.



So the corns going for $20 each in the US aren't cheaper?


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## Bushfire (Jun 15, 2009)

I think you will find the going rates in different countries have no influence in what local breeders sell there stock for. If that was so I might have to take my GTPs back, I got way overcharged.


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## notechistiger (Jun 15, 2009)

Wasn't aware there were any exotics being seriously advertised for proper comparison. And I imagine that the people selling them can't exactly ask for large sums of money (eg. the price of GTPs). Aren't backyard breeders in it for a "quick buck"?


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## sweetangel (Jun 16, 2009)

only reason why i wouldnt get a corn is that they are just so common  lol


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## Slugga!! (Jun 16, 2009)

I have trouble choosing my next native snake to add to my collection... 

Geez if i could have exotics, i may have a mental breakdown trying to choose!

better to play it safe IMO- keep them away.


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## cement (Jun 16, 2009)

Remember Guam...

Am I hearing right? Because we shelved the Savannah Cat can I expect to be able to buy one on the black market sometime soon? Wouldn't be too long before theres thousands of them out here right.


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## fine_jungles (Jun 16, 2009)

gillsy said:


> Where are you buying your exotics, because they're definitely not cheaper than natives.


 
im not buying exotics , full stop! lol sorry for the mix up ,how much are you buying your exotics for ?


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## cracksinthepitch (Jun 16, 2009)

cement said:


> Remember Guam...
> 
> Am I hearing right? Because we shelved the Savannah Cat can I expect to be able to buy one on the black market sometime soon? Wouldn't be too long before theres thousands of them out here right.


 
Just a side note on this as there are reports of these cats here already, who in the customs inspection teams could tell the difference between a savannah and a bengal or any other species similar? They are being sent under false labels(smuggling really) because they were knocked back. This is appaling and greedy people will find other means of supply for pretty much everything.


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## v_various (Jun 17, 2009)

Just a thought, but I talked to the reptile rescue lady a while ago and she told me half her intakes are strays. Even people with the most experience and best intentions can have escapes, one of her strays I fell in love with was a baby licorice rat snake and there's no way someone let that go on purpose. At least I don't think so, pretty as she was she did want to strike at anything with in 3 feet of her tank.



ADZz_93 said:


> yep, its like everything, people always want what they cant have. if they were legal, people wouldn't want them anymore than they want our natives.....if that makes sence ?



lol, ya because in BC you can only keep exotics and not native species. I would love a little rubber boa! Mind you, that law is a little easier to skirt since it's as easy a snagging a gater from your backyard and not telling anyone. I don't think we have too many cool native species though, so I'm happy with the way things are.


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## Colin (Jun 17, 2009)

fine_jungles said:


> im not buying exotics , full stop! lol sorry for the mix up ,how much are you buying your exotics for ?



now that would be interesting  if people posted what they have "heard" exotics sell for 
ie: species and price they were being offered at.. 

of course it doesn't imply that they bought anything just by posting..
unfortunately I dont have any info on this subject as I dont know anything concerning sales of exotics, but it would be interesting to hear


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## SlothHead (Jun 17, 2009)

Still taking calls from exotic keepers, thank you to those so far who have spoken to us. 

Cheers
Dustin


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## SlothHead (Jun 17, 2009)

Oh and by the way the research i have conducted so far on this certainly points to exotics not being cheap, as some are suggesting.


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## SlothHead (Jun 25, 2009)

Well thank you to those people that have contacted me. I will take further calls on the topic until COB Friday 26th June, following that there wont be any further need as should have enough information from there. 

For those that have sent emails or PMs, thank you too for expressing your views on the topic. 

Much appreciated. 

There is still a bit of research to be doing on the topic so it is still a ways off yet. 

Dustin


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## jan (Jul 2, 2009)

Looking forward to a interesting read!!
And better late than never....that was a interesting read... from all who posted
Quite a mixed feeling subject for sure!!


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## Tom.B (Jul 27, 2009)

*Leopard Gecko's In Austrlia?*

*Anyone, Are You Aloud To Own A Leopard Gecko In Australia? .. Thanks..................*:?:?:?:?:?


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## Chrisreptile (Jul 27, 2009)

Tom.B said:


> *Anyone, Are You Aloud To Own A Leopard Gecko In Australia? .. Thanks..................*:?:?:?:?:?



No, they are not legal here.


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## Dipcdame (Jul 27, 2009)

the cane toad was an exotic once, brought into the country and let loose............... look at the effect they've had on local wildlife......... include in the exotics list, foxes, introduced for sport...... horses (brumbys), exotics.............buffalo, camels, rabbits, carp in the murray river system, killing off the native fish, and numerous other animals and insects brought in to control something, but gone wild in numbers.......................................................................... do we REALLY want anything else creating a problem? Havent we done enough damage already in our quest to balance things out???????????


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