# Price War on GTP's (RDU)



## Jungleland (Nov 19, 2008)

The last 12 hours there's 3 ADs(all different) on chondro hatchies Reptile down under.

So the competition starts there's more choices where punters can spend there money

Quality, Pricing and after hour service will pay a big role on sales I reckon, what do you 

Guys think??

Joel


----------



## missllama (Nov 19, 2008)

at the end of the day i think even the quality breeders will be dropping there price eventually, i think most people will wait now seeing that the price is dropping

i dont think there will be as many sales this season

i wouldnt go with quality or pricing right now, wait till they drop a bit more imo coz they will


----------



## Sturdy (Nov 19, 2008)

there is quite a few ads on there for em....

3000 - 4000 appear to be the price for this seasons..... wouldnt be surprised to see a clutch for 2500.


----------



## Gnome73 (Nov 19, 2008)

yep the price is droping, but i think if it will drop more later in season. I say march and april is when the price war will start!


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Nov 19, 2008)

About time too,
prices for GTP have been outragous for years

Roger


----------



## Tatelina (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm sure by next year you'll be able to get some with pocket change...


----------



## Sturdy (Nov 19, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> About time too,
> prices for GTP have been outragous for years
> 
> Roger


 
yeah your right there.

i mean albino darwins are going for 6.6k this season at Sxr


----------



## Kersten (Nov 19, 2008)

I think that pricing will always be the deciding factor in buying reptiles, for a lot of reasons. It'd be nice to think that quality and service would, but that will only apply to people who've purchased from the sellers in the past. You can promise the world of help, the best looking and healthiest anmals but at the end of the day no one really knows what they're getting until they've bought it when buying over the net. 

I know personally if I was in the market for GTPs I'd only buy from one of the breeders listed because I've bought from him in the past and can say that not only do you always get what you've seen in the pics he sends, but the animals are in good condition and if there are ever any questions or problems he's always eager to help. That's not to say anything against the other breeders, I just don't know them and I'd rather buy something like that from someone I know that I can trust. Come to think of it there's only one other person not listed who I know to be breeding GTPs that I'd buy from. 

So yeah, for me quality and service play a huge part. But for someone on a limited budget, or who doesn't know any of the breeders every dollar will count.


----------



## Luke1 (Nov 19, 2008)

yea ive noticed em come down to! must of sucked for the people breeding them this year for the first time, probs would have bought a pair for 10 grand + and now they'll be getting basically nothing to what they got. i know one thing my uncles pretty angry!


----------



## scorps (Nov 19, 2008)

Luke1 said:


> yea ive noticed em come down to! must of sucked for the people breeding them this year for the first time, probs would have bought a pair for 10 grand + and now they'll be getting basically nothing to what they got. i know one thing my uncles pretty angry!


 

I dont agree one bit, even if they payed 10 grand plus each they would still make a very nice profit.


----------



## Emzie (Nov 19, 2008)

Luke1 said:


> yea ive noticed em come down to! must of sucked for the people breeding them this year for the first time, probs would have bought a pair for 10 grand + and now they'll be getting basically nothing to what they got. i know one thing my uncles pretty angry!


 im sure they will make their money back


----------



## Kersten (Nov 19, 2008)

He'll still make the money back, it'll just take longer. That being said, even if he doesn't it was the risk he took in buying them to start with. Reptile pricing has never been static, least of all things like GTPs, albinos and RSPs. While people may not necessarily have predicted how quickly the prices would drop, and by how much, it was inevitable that they would fall to some degree once more people started breeding them.


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

Sturdy said:


> i mean albino darwins are going for 6.6k this season at Sxr




I personally would choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin. 

Even when Chondro's eventually drop to $1000ea, it's still great money for doing something you love.


----------



## longte (Nov 19, 2008)

Makes the GTPs in Irian Jaya at $10 each sound like a bargain
I had twenty living in my house there
Mixture of colours from lime green to vivid blue
Bought them one at a time off the hunters who sell them for food in the markets
Was no way I could any permit to bring them back here


----------



## westernrocky (Nov 19, 2008)

*Love of gtps*

Shane Black..l agree with you 100% l have seen plenty of people on this forum critisize gtp's for many reasons ...but one thing really stands out ...no-one [ not one]with them [GTPS] critisizes them, for the great piece of nature they are ...mine are handled regularly they are magnificent to look at....l am of the firm opinion lts only the green-eyed tyre kickers that knock them and l do believe even a coastal in[excellent] condition is a good looker ....WR


----------



## Renagade (Nov 19, 2008)

Luke1 said:


> yea ive noticed em come down to! must of sucked for the people breeding them this year for the first time, probs would have bought a pair for 10 grand + and now they'll be getting basically nothing to what they got. i know one thing my uncles pretty angry!


 
could be worse.... i have shares in the stockmarket... angry doesnt come into it. least i know that there is a chance my investment wil bounce back, looks like once a price for hatchiesare set, it's done, locked in and will only get less and less. you just have to shrug and thing that that was risk you took. no one said it was going to be a gold mine.


----------



## scorps (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I personally would choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin.
> 
> Even when Chondro's eventually drop to $1000ea, it's still great money for doing something you love.



I honestly cant believe albinos are more then chondros, if you think about it albinos are just very pretty Darwin carpets, their still just carpets meaning their easy to breed and they lay huge clutch sizes, I am not saying Darwin albinos arnt nice but they are easy o breed and a big albino will easily lay 20 plus a season.


----------



## wokka (Nov 19, 2008)

Renagade said:


> could be worse.... i have shares in the stockmarket... angry doesnt come into it. least i know that there is a chance my investment wil bounce back, looks like once a price for hatchiesare set, it's done, locked in and will only get less and less. you just have to shrug and thing that that was risk you took. no one said it was going to be a gold mine.



I would have to disagree. A couple of adds doesn't set a price. Albino Olives were advertised at $7500 but they are still selling for double that. Its probably a bit like shares with the price dependant upon the keeness of the seller. In any market there are alwys desperate sellers which enable you to pick up a bargain from time to time.


----------



## Retic (Nov 19, 2008)

I couldn't agree more, even my prediction of $4000 this season is looking a little optimistic. 



Jungle_Freak said:


> About time too,
> prices for GTP have been outragous for years
> 
> Roger


----------



## Sturdy (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I personally would choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin.
> 
> Even when Chondro's eventually drop to $1000ea, it's still great money for doing something you love.


 
aww man can't i just have both.....


----------



## Emzie (Nov 19, 2008)

Kersten said:


> He'll still make the money back, it'll just take longer. That being said, even if he doesn't it was the risk he took in buying them to start with. Reptile pricing has never been static, least of all things like GTPs, albinos and RSPs. While people may not necessarily have predicted how quickly the prices would drop, and by how much, it was inevitable that they would fall to some degree once more people started breeding them.


i dont understand why someone would buy a snake thinking about how much money they will make back 
yeah its nice getting something to put back into the hobby but its not a business (well maybe for some)
if i brought a pair of GTP for 10,000 i wouldnt care if they were worth 500 when i decided to breed ild just be happy i owned a pair


----------



## Kersten (Nov 19, 2008)

While I wouldn't do it for that reason myself Emzie, I know why other people do. I don't necessarily agree with it though. To each his own though, I just don't see much point in getting upset when taking such a big gamble.


----------



## Retic (Nov 19, 2008)

I think the majority who bought Greens in recent times did so in the hope of making some decent money from them which is fine by me. Even with the price at $3000 or even $2000 they will make a good return.


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

Sturdy said:


> aww man can't i just have both.....




Haha, i know what your saying. The Darwins are a beautiful snake as well, no doubt about it. 

Going on about prices again, your average all green Chondro (Natives excluded) may well drop under the $1000 mark in the not too distant future, but there will alway's be exceptional lines worth big bucks.


----------



## Sturdy (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> Haha, i know what your saying. The Darwins are a beautiful snake as well, no doubt about it.
> 
> Going on about prices again, your average all green Chondro may well drop under the $1000 mark in the not too distant future, but there will alway's be exceptional lines worth big bucks.


 
personlly i dont like a stright green ones.. id like to get my hands on a mite phase GTP.


----------



## Emzie (Nov 19, 2008)

i like the blue *drools*


----------



## Camo (Nov 19, 2008)

Emzie said:


> i like the blue *drools*


How good is URS's ultimate blue GTP


----------



## Tatelina (Nov 19, 2008)

Luke1 said:


> yea ive noticed em come down to! must of sucked for the people breeding them this year for the first time, probs would have bought a pair for 10 grand + and now they'll be getting basically nothing to what they got. i know one thing my uncles pretty angry!


*
Why is it all about money? Why can't people buy animals for the love and fascination of the species instead of being money grabbing and greedy??*


----------



## Australis (Nov 19, 2008)

If you manage to breed anything a couple of times
you will always easily recoup initial costs.


----------



## Emzie (Nov 19, 2008)

Camo said:


> How good is URS's ultimate blue GTP


 They are orgasmic


----------



## mungus (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I personally would choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin.
> 
> Even when Chondro's eventually drop to $1000ea, it's still great money for doing something you love.


 
I'd go the other way.
Rather a albino darwin - easier to look after and a lot more attractive as an adult.
Price for these will drop in a few years as well, but will hold a lot better then the Chondro IMO.


----------



## mungus (Nov 19, 2008)

Emzie said:


> They are orgasmic


 
All it takes is a good looking snake..................lol


----------



## pythons73 (Nov 19, 2008)

Their will always be breeders selling their higher end snakes cheaper than others,patience is the key,to get what your asking for.Most ppl would like get a GTP but with their price tag,alot of us cant.With the prices coming down like they are,its looking alot more promising to own one.If i had the $$$$ i would rather pay a bit more from a reputable breeder,than paying half price from a bloke in a pub....


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

mungus said:


> I'd go the other way.
> Rather a albino darwin - easier to look after and a lot more attractive as an adult.
> Price for these will drop in a few years as well, but will hold a lot better then the Chondro IMO.



I wasnt saying i'd choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin carpet because of financial reasons. I'd choose a Chondro simply on their looks and personality. 

There's not too many pythons out there that can beat a good looking native Chondro in my opinion.


----------



## mungus (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I wasnt saying i'd choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin carpet because of financial reasons. I'd choose a Chondro simply on their looks and personality.
> 
> There's not too many pythons out there that can beat a good looking native Chondro in my opinion.


 
I'd read your initial post again, seems that the price was commented on.
Personality ..............lol
They bloody just sit there all day and night - Getting them to do anything else can be a challenge. This can become an issue when digesting their food.


----------



## westernrocky (Nov 19, 2008)

*Sorong gtp's*

Here's a 2 year old female[pure sorong] [500 grams] that shed last night, the sorong gtp's are noticable by the blue dorsal diamonds down their back, black tale tip and are slightly smaller , they are very easy to keep [temps 26-31] and high humidity...WR ...ps double click on the pic to enlarge it...


----------



## Colin (Nov 19, 2008)

mungus said:


> I'd read your initial post again, seems that the price was commented on.
> Personality ..............lol
> They bloody just sit there all day and night - Getting them to do anything else can be a challenge. This can become an issue when digesting their food.




:lol: I was thinking the same thing mungus.. personality??? of what a housebrick? 
GTP's are beautiful animals but are considered by most that own them to be very boring animals. 
In my opinion GTP's are vastly overated and vastly overpriced. :lol:


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

mungus said:


> I'd read your initial post again, seems that the price was commented on.
> Personality ..............lol
> They bloody just sit there all day and night - Getting them to do anything else can be a challenge. This can become an issue when digesting their food.



I can see how the initial post may have been interpreted that way, but i only included that quote so i could comment on the Darwins as well. I also commented on the price issue as that was what the thread was about.

I can also see why some people would find the personality thing puzzling. But in my experience they are a lot more active than most people realise. Maybe obese specimens wouldnt move too much, same as any snake. But as they say, "each to their own".


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 19, 2008)

Colin said:


> :lol: I was thinking the same thing mungus.. personality??? of what a housebrick?
> GTP's are beautiful animals but are considered by most that own them to be very boring animals.
> In my opinion GTP's are vastly overated and vastly overpriced. :lol:


 
I'd have to agree with that too. They are about as active as a blue tongue on valium. They only might move around the cage a for a couple of hours at night, and do absolutely nothing for the rest of the day. Having said that I still wouldnt trade mine in as they have an air of perfection and dignity about them. And with the current prices I am going shopping for more


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

Colin said:


> personality??? of what a housebrick?
> GTP's are beautiful animals but are considered by most that own them to be very boring animals.
> In my opinion GTP's are vastly overated and vastly overpriced. :lol:



Haha. I actually find all pythons boring. You'll also get no argument out of me regarding the overpriced bit. But their no more boring than any other python i've kept.


----------



## Minka (Nov 19, 2008)

Bah, Gtps are as boring as the albino darwins. My Darwins dont know any tricks that my GTPs dont, So if anyone out there has a performing Darwin give me a call because obviously like all the other GTP critics i only select my animals based on there behavioural qualities . In all honesty i dont understand why people make it a competition between the two.


----------



## Colin (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> Haha. I actually find all pythons boring. You'll also get no argument out of me regarding the overpriced bit. But their no more boring than any other python i've kept.



:each to their own shane. :



ShaneBlack said:


> I wasnt saying i'd choose a Chondro over an albino Darwin carpet because of financial reasons. I'd choose a Chondro simply on their looks and personality. .



looks and quote [boring] personality? : 

personally I'd take an albino darwin over a GTP any day of the week for both looks and personality.


----------



## paleoherp (Nov 19, 2008)

I was told at the start of the year that GTP's would be $3000 by this christmas but I didn't think anything of it at the time, obviously he wasn't far off the mark.
Snake prices are always going to go up and down to a degree, in my experience price seems to be controlled by availability, when I bought my first childrens python in 1986 they were only $80 each. But then there are some snakes that the prices seem to stay the same, I bought my first Olive Python in 88/89 for $400 and I have purchased another 2 Olives this year, still paying around $400 each.
I would happily pay $3000/$3500 for GTP's when and if I could afford it. I wouldn't pay big bucks for albino's , but then in my opinion albino's are over-rated.


----------



## Vincent (Nov 19, 2008)

Colin said:


> :each to their own shane. :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No probs. I was comparing their personality to a Darwins personality. Granted their both got boring personalitys, but i personally find the Chondros behaviour more interesting.

Anyway, that's it from me, i've lost interest in this thread.


----------



## Emzie (Nov 19, 2008)

CodeRed said:


> I'd have to agree with that too. They are about as active as a blue tongue on valium. They only might move around the cage a for a couple of hours at night, and do absolutely nothing for the rest of the day. Having said that I still wouldnt trade mine in as they have an air of perfection and dignity about them. And with the current prices I am going shopping for more


 
There like diamonds (real diamonds not snakes) they have no purpose just pretty to look at and make all your friends jealous


----------



## amazonian (Nov 19, 2008)

All snakes are boring really.
GTP have that whole sweet, innocent & cute look about them though, which is making it hard for me to sell up and move onto new hobbies. I often want to but when I look at them it's like looking at my kids.


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 19, 2008)

Emzie said:


> There like diamonds (real diamonds not snakes) they have no purpose just pretty to look at and make all your friends jealous


 

lol, I might just tell my wife that they are like diamonds and maybe she'll want lots of them


----------



## NCHERPS (Nov 19, 2008)

amazonian said:


> . I often want to but when I look at them it's like looking at my kids.



You spend too much time with your snakes! Need to get out more! :lol:


----------



## Tatelina (Nov 19, 2008)

Emzie said:


> There like diamonds (real diamonds not snakes) they have no purpose just pretty to look at and make all your friends jealous



Hehehehe...not far off!


----------



## JasonL (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I can also see why some people would find the personality thing puzzling. But in my experience they are a lot more active than most people realise. Maybe obese specimens wouldnt move too much, same as any snake. But as they say, "each to their own".



Maybe your just getting soft in your old age.... starting to enjoy being able to open an enclosure without something trying to kill you  talk about opposite ends of the spectrum!


----------



## LullabyLizard (Nov 19, 2008)

I want one, but cant afford one.... *sigh*

I'm waiting until the prices drop to $250


----------



## Sturdy (Nov 19, 2008)

amazonian said:


> All snakes are boring really.


 
i wouldnt call an elapid boring.


----------



## Colin (Nov 19, 2008)

ShaneBlack said:


> I can also see why some people would find the personality thing puzzling. But in my experience they are a lot more active than most people realise.



your right of course shane. a lot of nocturnal pythons are very active through the night when most people are asleep. 
Being an insomniac lets me observe my pythons when they are most active and I usually feed mine at night as well..


----------



## aussie.snakes (Nov 19, 2008)

amazonian said:


> All snakes are boring really.
> GTP have that whole sweet, innocent & cute look about them though, which is making it hard for me to sell up and move onto new hobbies. I often want to but when I look at them it's like looking at my kids.


 
Boring! Snakes along with crocodiles and sharks are ultimate predators (lions, tigers etc are not all that great. They haven't been around for long enough). They are so different to anything else in this world in terms of obvious body structure, behaviour and metabolism. You may not be able to play with them as such but in my opions they are the most fasinating animal on this planet. 

As for GTP, yeh it is all to do with looks. It is great the prices are dropping. One day I might have one.


----------



## paleoherp (Nov 19, 2008)

I can see why some people regard snakes as boring, I have found if you feed a little less they tend to be more active. As for personality traits, i'm not so sure on that one, I tend to notice more behavioural traits between spieces more than anything else.
As for that pricing thing I would much rather pay big bucks for a Blue/Green Tree Python than an albino anything.


----------



## Wild~Touch (Nov 19, 2008)

westernrocky said:


> Here's a 2 year old female[pure sorong] [500 grams] that shed last night, the sorong gtp's are noticable by the blue dorsal diamonds down their back, black tale tip and are slightly smaller , they are very easy to keep [temps 26-31] and high humidity...WR ...ps double click on the pic to enlarge it...



That girl is DIVINE ...  Thanks for sharing


----------



## LullabyLizard (Nov 19, 2008)

westernrocky said:


> Here's a 2 year old female[pure sorong] [500 grams] that shed last night, the sorong gtp's are noticable by the blue dorsal diamonds down their back, black tale tip and are slightly smaller , they are very easy to keep [temps 26-31] and high humidity...WR ...ps double click on the pic to enlarge it...




She's beautiful!


----------



## Sdaji (Nov 19, 2008)

amazonian said:


> All snakes are boring really.
> GTP have that whole sweet, innocent & cute look about them though, which is making it hard for me to sell up and move onto new hobbies. I often want to but when I look at them it's like looking at my kids.



The only snakes you've kept are pythons, I'm guessing, and likely you haven't kept Waters


----------



## Camo (Nov 19, 2008)

Emzie said:


> They are orgasmic


Yeah almost :lol:


----------



## longte (Nov 19, 2008)

"There like diamonds (real diamonds not snakes) they have no purpose just pretty to look at and make all your friends jealous"

I thought this deserves a comment
This whole thing about just having a snake in a box is boring
[unless you are a breeder of course]
Mine are defintitely individuals with individual behavior patterns
They are handled very often and most people who handle them agree they are wonderfully relaxing to hold
Maybe they cant fetch a ball
But one of mine heads straight for bras [hunting warmth maybe]
Another just coils straight onto top of heads
Another goes for armpits unless they are wearing too much deoderant
Supposedly they are deaf
Then why does one head right for the speakers when Evanescence is played on CD


----------



## GSXR_Boy (Nov 19, 2008)

longte;1304713Supposedly they are deaf
Then why does one head right for the speakers when Evanescence is played on CD[/quote said:


> Because even they think it's crap and are looking for the off button!


----------



## wokka (Nov 19, 2008)

Tatelina said:


> *
> Why is it all about money? Why can't people buy animals for the love and fascination of the species instead of being money grabbing and greedy??*



They cant afford to


----------



## mattG (Nov 19, 2008)

westernrocky said:


> Here's a 2 year old female[pure sorong] [500 grams] that shed last night, the sorong gtp's are noticable by the blue dorsal diamonds down their back, black tale tip and are slightly smaller , they are very easy to keep [temps 26-31] and high humidity...WR ...ps double click on the pic to enlarge it...



NICE! if / when I'm cashed up that's the sort of green tree I'm gettin


----------



## fishead (Nov 19, 2008)

They cant afford to 

In my view even at 3-4K each it's still a very limited market that is being swamped. For most folks times are pretty tough and it's mostly only a relative few serious snake guys (raising the funds through breeding other species) that can justify shelling out those sort of bucks. 
That's probably stating the obvious - I'm an expert on the obvious by the way - there's still ads out there for last season's hatchies so there's going to be a whole lot of unsold hatchies this season without prices dropping further still. 
Sorry Wokko :lol:


----------



## Jason (Nov 19, 2008)

some nice animals up for sale. they will be cheaper in the very close future, those with animals advertised have a far few animals to satisfy alot of interested people. i have heard of about 14 confermed clutches this season and that imo wouldnt be half of them. alot around for sure.

ultimate blue is a nice animal, im impressed with the price of her offspring actually. i wouldnt pay to much extra for her offspring she is just hormonal anyway. $3400 wont be the cheapest we see them. they'll be cheaper in a month or two. the only people convinced that the price isnt dropping is those that have bred a good number of them this season... they're the ones that'll be strugling to sell all there offspring. the rate they are going ill grab a few when they are 2K each.


----------



## fraser888 (Nov 19, 2008)

Shame most people bought last season lol..........


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 19, 2008)

Interesting to see if the current prices hold over the whole season or will they drop again in another 6 months. To buy now or not to buy now is the question


----------



## Jason (Nov 19, 2008)

CodeRed said:


> Interesting to see if the current prices hold over the whole season or will they drop again in another 6 months. To buy now or not to buy now is the question



very true. at the end of the day if someone was to be buying them to breed and make a profit, they may aswell wait. as all class 2 animals they will continue to fall until they are under 1k each which imo will be in two more seasons. they be be the most popular python etc but they are restricted to class two and many people are willing to wait for the drop. i for one am happy to wait. as i said ill pay no more then 2K for what is generally on the market at the moment. give me an animal from a really high yellow pair and you can expect mor money. ill wait get 4 or 5 from a couple different people grow them slowly and breed with them one day...no rush.


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 19, 2008)

*gtp prices*

fraser888...l fail to see the mathematical logic in your snipe at last seasons purchasers, they will breed one year earlier and therefore get a higher return than this years buyers who in the main will breed one year later....very simple logic.....ps this whole thread albino darwins being better than greens l think should be seen in the text : if everybody had albinoes it would be boring and the same with greens...lets remember diversity is what gives you PASSION.....CHEERS SOLAR 17 [Baden]


----------



## Nagraj (Nov 19, 2008)

IMO established feeding hatchies will be sold for well under $3K this season but we probably won't see that offered publicly.


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 20, 2008)

The time of the year again when everyone speculates at what prices are going to be doing.I might as well jump on the bandwagon too and add to the wishful thinking.Since green prices are coming does that mean pure aussies are going to drop as well? I hope so because I would like some.

On the which is better, albino darwins or greens we keep both and if for some reason I could only keep one of those species I would choose the darwins in a heartbeat.Each to their own.


----------



## wokka (Nov 20, 2008)

fraser888 said:


> Shame most people bought last season lol..........



Most people buy because they want to. It must be a terrible way to live, not buying things because they might be available sometime cheaper. Funiture and electrical goods are generally cheaper now than ten years ago. Look at all these playstations, wiis etc, computers. I am sure they will all be cheaper as production methods are streamlined and volume increases. Perhaps you should wait at the tip and grab everyones throw outs for free, but then again if you wait longer someone might pay you to take them away.
I get a lot more enjoyment out of my snakes than from money in the bank!


----------



## Jason (Nov 20, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> On the which is better, albino darwins or greens we keep both and if for some reason I could only keep one of those species I would choose the darwins in a heartbeat.Each to their own.




i couldn't agree more. loving the darwins, beautiful animals!!


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Nov 20, 2008)

This is interesting ,
prices are coming down as more and more clutches get advertised 
http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/animal.php?saleID=23083


----------



## Ninjaette (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I might just wait another decade and see how things are then LOL


----------



## JasonL (Nov 20, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> On the which is better, albino darwins or greens we keep both and if for some reason I could only keep one of those species I would choose the darwins in a heartbeat.Each to their own.



If I had to choose between them... I'd pick a woma


----------



## Jason (Nov 20, 2008)

Jungle_Freak said:


> This is interesting ,
> prices are coming down as more and more clutches get advertised
> http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/ahc/animal.php?saleID=23083



its abit unbelievable, the number of hatchies that have popped up in the last 24 hours for sale is..... a shock, yes there are heaps around, who didnt know that. i find it funny how they have all gone up at the same time. have alook at RHC the majority of animals for sale in the last day are GTP's


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Nov 20, 2008)

its called the woma syndrome LOL


----------



## carpetmuncher (Nov 20, 2008)

aussie.snakes said:


> Boring! Snakes along with crocodiles and sharks are ultimate predators.


 

you are kidding, how can you put snakes on the same level as crocodiles and sharks? maybe cause 'anaconda' is on telly tomorrow. 
kookaburras eat snakes.


----------



## scorps (Nov 20, 2008)

carpetmuncher said:


> you are kidding, how can you put snakes on the same level as crocodiles and sharks? maybe cause 'anaconda' is on telly tomorrow.
> kookaburras eat snakes.




Just because kookaburras eat snakes doesn't mean snakes aren't predators, killer whales eat sharks, are you saying sharks aren't an effective predator?


----------



## zulu (Nov 20, 2008)

*re Price*



Jungle_Freak said:


> its called the woma syndrome LOL



LMAO yeh unfortunately predictable,in the latest flurry on RDU,james Tyler has stole the leed again over all the others with 2700,this ti9me they will be feeding with some reds available,Mathew Bonnett is making another late run also showing a good price for high quality feeders.Tim Mensforth was making a very nice dash but unfortunately fell over from stuart riding him way too hard and resorting to the whip,ouch!. :lol:


----------



## horsesrule (Nov 20, 2008)

About time they dropped in price.

GIve it another 5 years hopefully they will drop to around the price of a black head.


----------



## aussie.snakes (Nov 20, 2008)

I am interested to see what price they will be when the Snake Ranch get their's going.


----------



## Jungle_Freak (Nov 20, 2008)

Zulu 
you kill me LOL
pmsl


----------



## aussie.snakes (Nov 20, 2008)

carpetmuncher said:


> you are kidding, how can you put snakes on the same level as crocodiles and sharks? maybe cause 'anaconda' is on telly tomorrow.
> kookaburras eat snakes.


 
Yeh but snakes can eat kookaburras . There is more to being a predator than killing. They are perfectly adapted to a vast range of environments and can go ages without eating (wait for the food to come to them).


----------



## fishead (Nov 20, 2008)

Absolute gold zulu! :lol:

Before getting too excited about prices dropping any prospective new gtp owners should take a read of Simon Stone's article in the Reptiles Australia chondro special. It's not all roses, there's the odd thorn to look out for. Buyer beware! 
Trust is the most prescious thing in the world in my books.


----------



## jasonryles810 (Nov 20, 2008)

fishead said:


> Absolute gold zulu! :lol:
> 
> Before getting too excited about prices dropping any prospective new gtp owners should take a read of Simon Stone's article in the Reptiles Australia chondro special. It's not all roses, there's the odd thorn to look out for. Buyer beware!
> Trust is the most prescious thing in the world in my books.


 
yeh had a read of that myself, man he makes it sound like theyre impossible to care for...theyre not all that hard so long as u buy healthy individuals without crap bloodlines and previous history if illness. theyre an amazing snake. i couldnt rate them highly enough.


----------



## Wild~Touch (Nov 20, 2008)

That's gold zulu. LOL. A perfect way to explain the "great race"


----------



## NCHERPS (Nov 20, 2008)

Crickey, with that many floating around I reckon they will be free with a packet of cornflakes by next season! 

Just kidding guys, nice to see the price more reasonable after so many years.

Some very nice looking parent chondro's out there, those in the market fo rthem are spoiled for choice this year.

Neil


----------



## Jason (Nov 21, 2008)

aussie.snakes said:


> I am interested to see what price they will be when the Snake Ranch get their's going.



if they were as successful as last season with the GTP they wont have any to sell. from what i hear i dont think they really got many to worry about?
i think they'll have a big enouh issue moving the RSP, beautiful animals but nobody wants to pay that kind of money. At the end of the day this always happens with every class 2 animal. womas, RSP, GTP im even noticing it with some lizards, bels laceys have even dropped a couple hundred over the last few season. womas and RSP should not be on class 2 anyway.


----------



## Owzi (Nov 21, 2008)

I wonder what would happen to prices if the class 2 restrictions for NSW changed? What if Tassie was finally allowed to legally keep herps from the mainland? What if WA changed its laws & allowed animals to be imported from other states?


----------



## Simple (Nov 21, 2008)

I think because you need a specialist permit in most states, the market is saturated. If the restrictions were removed the price would be higher.


----------



## Nagraj (Nov 21, 2008)

Owzi said:


> I wonder what would happen to prices if the class 2 restrictions for NSW changed? What if Tassie was finally allowed to legally keep herps from the mainland? What if WA changed its laws & allowed animals to be imported from other states?




What if the moon were made of cheese?

Without a concerted effort by a herp lobby group the State's legislations will progress at the same pace as a GTP's metabolism.


----------



## mungus (Nov 21, 2008)

wokka said:


> Most people buy because they want to. It must be a terrible way to live, not buying things because they might be available sometime cheaper. Funiture and electrical goods are generally cheaper now than ten years ago. Look at all these playstations, wiis etc, computers. I am sure they will all be cheaper as production methods are streamlined and volume increases. Perhaps you should wait at the tip and grab everyones throw outs for free, but then again if you wait longer someone might pay you to take them away.
> I get a lot more enjoyment out of my snakes than from money in the bank!



A lot of us have'nt got the cash that some people have.
We have to wait a year or two for prices to drop so that we can afford to buy them.
People with to much money forget this small issue and think that because they can afford it, than everybody else can - wrong !!
You'll find that most people need to save their money and have a target item in mind.
This could take weeks, months or years.
I keep this in mind when selling alot of my reptiles and have helped out of few people here or there when I can.
Breeders in it for the $$$ and the high returns will feel the pinch in the next few years.
Cant wait to be paying $500 for a GTP.....................I will wait that long.............


----------



## the.badger (Nov 21, 2008)

If I had $3K+ to spend on a python I'd buy a roughie. 

I don't really like the look of albino darwins or GTPs. I don't know why everyone's so obsessed with them.

Hopefully the price of RSPs will follow the GTPs prices further down the spiral, but there doesn't seem to be much movement on that front yet. How come no-one buys roughies, by the way? I don't get it.


----------



## moosenoose (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm glad someone has dropped the dreaded green worms to under 3k. It's nice to see someone out there with the desire to allow others the chance to own and breed such a unique python for themselves. I still wouldn't buy one at 2k...but then again...that's just me


----------



## amazonian (Nov 21, 2008)

Sorry double post
VVVVVVVVVVVVVV


----------



## amazonian (Nov 21, 2008)

Not so good for those of us that paid $5000 each for them and have excess yearlings to sell.


----------



## CHONDROS (Nov 21, 2008)

Camo said:


> How good is URS's ultimate blue GTP



yes she is nice but she is just a hormonal blue female so sum of her female young may turn blue when breed.

sum female will turn blue when breeding sum hold the blue and get more blue each time you breed them this is what tims female has done


----------



## mckellar007 (Nov 22, 2008)

i should probably start saving, i'll try get one next season!! love the ultimate blue!! people need to stop worrying about prices, the same as jungles or any other snake, even though there will be an average price for the market, there will be certain animals that are worth more EG. the ultimate blue, striped, colour morphs etc, that will always be being perfected and improved, aussie herp culture is only in its young stages, there will always be snakes that are going to be worth plenty more then others, the albino spotteds will be worth a fair bit when they are on the market, pygmys dont look like they are going to be dropping any time soon, and other things will crop up, white lipped pythons should be worth their weight in gold!! (if they ever get on the market) 

anyway, just my opinion, i would be getting them this season if i could afford it, price isnt an issue, its the pride and happiness ill get from keeping them that i am after.


----------



## wokka (Nov 22, 2008)

I saw this thread had 99 posts so just had to push it into tripple digits.


mungus said:


> A lot of us have'nt got the cash that some people have.
> We have to wait a year or two for prices to drop so that we can afford to buy them.
> People with to much money forget this small issue and think that because they can afford it, than everybody else can - wrong !!
> You'll find that most people need to save their money and have a target item in mind.
> ...



I agree with saving before you buy things, furniture included, but then be happy with your purchase, dont live in fear of the price falling because in nine out of ten cases that is what will happen. I hope when you buy your $500 GTPs they dont fall to $400 the next year but there is a chance they may.


----------



## koubee (Nov 22, 2008)

westernrocky said:


> Here's a 2 year old female[pure sorong] [500 grams] that shed last night, the sorong gtp's are noticable by the blue dorsal diamonds down their back, black tale tip and are slightly smaller , they are very easy to keep [temps 26-31] and high humidity...WR ...ps double click on the pic to enlarge it...





Nice looking python. 
Where does a "pure sorong" come from? Are they native?
Just curious


----------



## CarpetPythons.com.au (Nov 22, 2008)

Its amazing how some of the people that have the money to pay for these snakes, have been elevated to expert keepers when they have only had a few years of keeping snakes in general. Keeping an expensive snake does not automatically make you an expert. Especially when most snakes these days have been bred several generations in a row to make them more hardy to life in captivity. If you have money you can also pay someone that knows what he or she is doing to breed your reptiles for you. I take my hat off to any private keeper that has funded his own small projects and been successful in breeding their pair of greens. I also admire the fact that they are selling their animals for what they think is a fair price to allow other keepers to enjoy these amazing animals at a more reasonable price. I am all for expensive rare snakes, but greens have just never fallen in this class to me. Aussies or non-Aussie, Morelia viridis stays Morelia viridis. You can always see who the ones are that have a bit to lose in these threads, they are the ones who pipe up about how it wont effect the prices later in the season. This rubbish of good lines that dont prolapse, all nonsense to keep the price inflated. Why do you have to pay thousands more for a snake because someone says they dont prolapse, would a breeder ever admit to that??? I say go the lower prices!!!


----------



## koubee (Nov 22, 2008)

Anyone have a pic of a PURE aussie GTP?


----------



## moreliainsanity (Nov 22, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> Its amazing how some of the people that have the money to pay for these snakes, have been elevated to expert keepers when they have only had a few years of keeping snakes in general. Keeping an expensive snake does not automatically make you an expert. Especially when most snakes these days have been bred several generations in a row to make them more hardy to life in captivity. If you have money you can also pay someone that knows what he or she is doing to breed your reptiles for you. I take my hat off to any private keeper that has funded his own small projects and been successful in breeding their pair of greens. I also admire the fact that they are selling their animals for what they think is a fair price to allow other keepers to enjoy these amazing animals at a more reasonable price. jquote]
> 
> Well Said Cordylus What money can do even in the herp scene
> 
> ...


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 22, 2008)

*Lifes Choices*

In this thread there seems to be a few green eyes [jealous people] who are down on anyone who have had geens and bred them, well my take on this is we all make choices some of us the wrong ones and MOST [but not all] easy ones and then when someone appears to be making a dollar they are down on them for basically two reasons [1] they are jealous [but didn't want to do the hard yards or take a huge risk.. [2] is basically the first reason only they accuse others [not themselves] as not caring about animals and only in it for the dollar...and l don,t mind saying it l did,t see any of this [ "group....the poor little me's "] climbing over rocks and scrub in the far north of W.A. and establishing a new captive breed of python or paying big bucks for greens early in the piece.....my final bit is remember variety creates passion, if everybody loved the one particular type of snake it would be a boring hobby.................cheers solar 17 [Baden]


----------



## CarpetPythons.com.au (Nov 22, 2008)

But exactly how much is climbing over rocks worth exactly??? There is nothing wrong with making money breeding reptiles. You have to have the pioneers in reptile keeping otherwise the hobby would not be where it is today. How many of the pioneers of Australian reptile keeping can you name that is making megabucks out of breeding rare pythons. There are a few of the so called big names that bought themselves into this hobby. And we all know who they are. Lets say the last 10 years, where were they before this. These are the people that make the biggest hype about price decreases, they have the most to lose as they invested so much in their initial outlay. Now lets all enjoy and watch how the market drops through the ground for this and other rare species.
We can all keep them then.


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 22, 2008)

*Price drop*

Cordylus...you are right in a couple of instances, but it would appear l don't wish to see anybody suffer [as you pointed out] you do and one other point you forgot to mention l don't remember hearing or seeing ANYBODY being FORCED to purchase any herps, once again its the persons own CHOICE......cheers solar 17 [Baden]


----------



## indicus (Nov 22, 2008)

If your one of those into snakes; greens in this case... 'just for money' (there's a lot of them)
If so I agree; suffer... they'll be a dime a dozen soon....it isn't all about bucks to some of us.
Good on those breeders for offering them to the public for a reasonable price.
At a couple grand a piece; even the average Joe can afford to save up and purchase one.
At a couple grand each; their still making a reasonable wage IMO;
and will easily recoup their initial outlay; even if they paid a fortune.
Those breeders that are asking stupid prices; are just greedy; nothing else....
These breeders may actually have to do some work now; line breeding etc....
not just claiming fame; or self importance for breeding a snake that's easily bred....the easy rides over.
Yes; there's quite a few experts out there these days....due to having deep pockets


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 22, 2008)

*Prices*

Its almost like $3000.00 for black and white jungles isn't it ???????....cheers solar 17 [Baden]


----------



## indicus (Nov 22, 2008)

$3000???...more fool you; you've been ripped off :lol:


----------



## NCHERPS (Nov 22, 2008)

indicus said:


> These breeders may actually have to do some work now; line breeding etc....
> not just claiming fame; or self importance for breeding a snake that's easily bred....the easy rides over.
> Yes; there's quite a few experts out there these days....due to having deep pockets



Absolutely, It has always made me laugh how that if someone could afford to buy greens they were put on a pedestal and before long they even thought they were special because they owned them. 
Deep pockets doesn't buy experience, it just buys you snakes.

I have more respect for people that are working with the rarer kept, more unusual species that are harder to breed, but which may sell off the offspring for little money.

That said, there are still alot of humble breeders of GTP's that do it more for the love of the species than the financial reward.

Neil


----------



## mungus (Nov 22, 2008)

wokka said:


> I saw this thread had 99 posts so just had to push it into tripple digits.
> 
> 
> I agree with saving before you buy things, furniture included, but then be happy with your purchase, dont live in fear of the price falling because in nine out of ten cases that is what will happen. I hope when you buy your $500 GTPs they dont fall to $400 the next year but there is a chance they may.



Your missing the piont Wokka,
I could of bought them years ago mate, believe it or not, money is'nt the issue for me....
[ They are'nt the easiest snakes in the world to take care of at a young age, and before I fork out any money on any animal, I would want to be 100% certain that I can take good care of it ]
The point I was trying to get at is that not everyone can, therfore, the people who cant and have to wait till the prices drop should not be made to feel inferior in anyway - simple.
I buy all my reptiles because I enjoy the them, to me its a hobby not a business.
Cheers,
Aleks.


----------



## mungus (Nov 22, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> Its amazing how some of the people that have the money to pay for these snakes, have been elevated to expert keepers when they have only had a few years of keeping snakes in general. Keeping an expensive snake does not automatically make you an expert. Especially when most snakes these days have been bred several generations in a row to make them more hardy to life in captivity. If you have money you can also pay someone that knows what he or she is doing to breed your reptiles for you. I take my hat off to any private keeper that has funded his own small projects and been successful in breeding their pair of greens. I also admire the fact that they are selling their animals for what they think is a fair price to allow other keepers to enjoy these amazing animals at a more reasonable price. I am all for expensive rare snakes, but greens have just never fallen in this class to me. Aussies or non-Aussie, Morelia viridis stays Morelia viridis. You can always see who the ones are that have a bit to lose in these threads, they are the ones who pipe up about how it wont effect the prices later in the season. This rubbish of good lines that dont prolapse, all nonsense to keep the price inflated. Why do you have to pay thousands more for a snake because someone says they dont prolapse, would a breeder ever admit to that??? I say go the lower prices!!!



You hit the nail on head..................


----------



## Simple (Nov 22, 2008)

But how many of these hatchling GTP would have had a probe shoved in them. So that JOE average who saves his $7000 to $10000 to buy his trio and ends up with three males. Gtp sales for a long time have been about prestige and money, for some to have this taken away will mean that a cheap GTP will have less time put into it and sold sooner becuase they are cheaper (of coures this is not every one). Then you are taking the word of the breeder that is all ok and when it is not it will be the buyers fault due to inncorrect temps, feeding technique, food supply or any other excuse they can give. I do not own GTPs but have seen the dark side of the GTP trade (and also the good side). There will be alot of new GTP owners who will get burnt with these cheaper prices. I do realise this happened prevously but generally it was more experienced keepers who were outlaying the money to buy. I will own some in the near future but I will pay the bit extra for established yearling plus animals that are well estabished. Just my opinion.


----------



## coz666 (Nov 22, 2008)

i dont think anyone is getting ripped off, i think people years ago definately were. people these days have more sense, have better resources for info and the equipment available is totally better.
i think that bringing the prices down is a normal progression, the more there are around the less they are worth, supply and demand. then something else will emerge as the leader and seemingly impossible to purchase. albinos for instance, what would be the price for an albino gtp if one was to fall onto the market.


----------



## olivehydra (Nov 22, 2008)

NCHERPS said:


> Absolutely, It has always made me laugh how that if someone could afford to buy greens they were put on a pedestal and before long they even thought they were special because they owned them.
> Deep pockets doesn't buy experience, it just buys you snakes.
> 
> 
> Neil



I'm not sure who these "elevated" keepers are, so perhaps I'm a little misguided. However I am now in my 32nd year of keeping herps and am happy to admit that someone with a few years experience and a lot of money invested in their recent collection may very well know more about herps than I ever will. Owning hundreds/thousands of animals can possibly give you a vast amount of knowledge and learning. Time doesnt always equate to knowledge or experience. Sometimes it is a numbers game.


----------



## PilbaraPythons (Nov 22, 2008)

Fact , there have been recently heaps of illegally smuggled in juvenile green pythons and
this a huge reason why many people are selling greens cheap.
Another fact, there will be many disappointed buyers with disasters through disease just around the corner. Russian snake roulette, the question is, are you willing to play?


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 22, 2008)

*prices*

Indicus...lt was you personally that quoted me $3000.00 ....posted by Indicus..................................
$3000???...more fool you; you've been ripped off :lol: and l chose not to purchase and to this day STILL don't own a jungle, but that's a choice we all have no one forces us to pay numerically high prices ......cheers solar 17 [BADEN]


----------



## whiteyluvsrum (Nov 22, 2008)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Russian snake roulette, the question is, are you willing to play?



load me up, give it spin!


----------



## cris (Nov 22, 2008)

Im waiting until they are $800-1000, maybe next season?


----------



## indicus (Nov 22, 2008)

solar 17 said:


> Indicus...lt was you personally that quoted me $3000.00 ....posted by Indicus..................................
> $3000???...more fool you; you've been ripped off :lol: and l chose not to purchase and to this day STILL don't own a jungle, but that's a choice we all have no one forces us to pay numerically high prices ......cheers solar 17 [BADEN]



Hi Solar17
Firstly i've never sold any animal for $3000;
It would have been for a pair....
my appologies if you've misunderstood.
Like yourself; I to have an opinion on the subject;
just differs to yours...
Sorry if it offends you; or your wallet


----------



## zulu (Nov 22, 2008)

*re Price*



whiteyluvsrum said:


> load me up, give it spin!



LOL,yeh all the same difference really,they all look like the Blues Brothers these GTP sellers!


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 22, 2008)

What ever happened to growing your collection over time? We as I'm sure lots of others as well started out with the cheaper stuff,bred from them and used any profit made to purchase more expensive animals, to me its a natural progression.


----------



## BROWNS (Nov 22, 2008)

Now I guess we have to do our homework on whom to buy our "quality legal greens" from.
some so called "respected" breeders are anything but !!! one only has to look at whom they are assosiated with & their background.............................


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 22, 2008)

BROWNS said:


> Now I guess we have to do our homework on whom to buy our "quality legal greens" from.
> some so called "respected" breeders are anything but !!! one only has to look at whom they are assosiated with & their background.............................



Browns,I've been looking for "legit" ones for years.A few people have claimed that theirs are the real McCoy but on questioning they become pretty vague with their answers,very very frustrating!


----------



## zulu (Nov 22, 2008)

*re Price*



Ramsayi said:


> Browns,I've been looking for "legit" ones for years.A few people have claimed that theirs are the real McCoy but on questioning they become pretty vague with their answers,very very frustrating!



Now Now Ramsayi,behave yourself,you know how the system operates! Australia came from a convict past and so has our reptiles here in NSW,your dodgey and get laundered by an amnesty or something and thats it,cream,live with it :lol:


----------



## Ramsayi (Nov 23, 2008)

Fair go zulu,how would you feel if you went out to buy a chiko roll and some mongrel flogged a half baked dim sim off to you instead?


----------



## Kersten (Nov 23, 2008)

From the sounds of it I'd be surprised if there were even any chicko rolls out there.


----------



## solar 17 (Nov 23, 2008)

*Purchasing reptiles*

I would still like to know .....who has been FORCED to purchase a reptile....and secondly l was taught right from primary school DO YOUR HOMEWORK.....cheers solar 17 [Baden]


----------



## The Devil (Nov 23, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> Browns,I've been looking for "legit" ones for years.A few people have claimed that theirs are the real McCoy but on questioning they become pretty vague with their answers,very very frustrating!



When asking about "legit" greens are you referring to Aussie greens or legit captive bred PNG or Indo ones.


----------



## Snake_Whisperer (Nov 23, 2008)

indicus said:


> Hi Solar17
> Firstly i've never sold any animal for $3000;
> It would have been for a pair....
> my appologies if you've misunderstood.
> ...


 
Well, even though we never spoke or met, you must have done me a great deal on my B&Ws! To give me TWO for three grand, wow, thanks Indicus! Heh heh, got a pair off The Devil, absolute stunners mate!

Simple market economics. It is even more obvious in a small niche market like "Pythons". If supply exceeds demand, prices drop. (Hold on, I'm trying to sound clever but someone has probably made this point already! ) I for one look forward to the day I can get a pair of sexed GTP's for a decent price. S'far as 'decent' breeders go, I know of at least two I would trust to give both a fair price as well as as accurate lineage as you could get from someone without doing genetic testing.


----------



## shlanger (Nov 23, 2008)

GTP's nice snake, them's what have them tell me they are as boring as all get out! Nearly bought a pair 8 years ago for 10k, built a reptile house instead! Will still keep breeding spotteds, coastals, murray darlings, bredli, etc. the "bread and butter"stuff" to support my "habit!"


----------



## Jungletrans (Nov 23, 2008)

Investers have pushed prices up on property , classic cars and bikes , collectables and rare animals to the point that average enthusiasts cant afford them anymore . When the prices crash they are the ones who suffer . Bring it on , make them work for a change .


----------



## Slateman (Nov 23, 2008)

cris said:


> Im waiting until they are $800-1000, maybe next season?



I can't wait when this will happen.
This will stop smuggling of this poor creatures.
I hate all smugglers of wild life. 

So much cruelty.

No more smelly parcels delivered by Australia post.


----------



## pythons73 (Nov 23, 2008)

Well said Slateman,and the poor ones that get caught get euthanised,the ppl that do import them,they need tougher penalties,Not a slap on the wrist.


----------



## Retic (Nov 23, 2008)

This has been going on for many years with some quite surprising names involved. I remember I think 10 greens found at Townsville airport (?) that allegedly had an unknown virus, probably scare tactics use by the authorities but who knows ?



PilbaraPythons said:


> Fact , there have been recently heaps of illegally smuggled in juvenile green pythons and
> this a huge reason why many people are selling greens cheap.
> Another fact, there will be many disappointed buyers with disasters through disease just around the corner. Russian snake roulette, the question is, are you willing to play?


----------



## TrueBlue (Nov 23, 2008)

This season there has been LARGE numbers of hatchling greens smuggled into the country, hence the massive price drop as people start trying to unload them. Canberra, (our lovely capital for example), is reported to be loaded with them. Ironic to say the least.


----------



## Simple (Nov 23, 2008)

pythons73 said:


> Well said Slateman,and the poor ones that get caught get euthanised,the ppl that do import them,they need tougher penalties,Not a slap on the wrist.



You will find that the penalties for smuggling are quite hefty. I know that evryone seems to believe that a former member of this site only got a $3000 fine for smuggling. The fine of $3000 was imposed by the Victorian authorities for breach of licensing rule in that state. Smuggling is a federal offence and if anyone has ever heard of a federal court case happening with in 2 month of the offence I would be amazed, In a preliminary hearing he has had his passport taken so he cannot skip the country. You will fiind it will take 2-3 years fr the court case to come up. This generally how it works.


----------



## BROWNS (Nov 23, 2008)

akira said:


> Well, even though we never spoke or met, you must have done me a great deal on my B&Ws! To give me TWO for three grand, wow, thanks Indicus! Heh heh, got a pair off The Devil, absolute stunners mate!
> 
> Simple market economics. It is even more obvious in a small niche market like "Pythons". If supply exceeds demand, prices drop. (Hold on, I'm trying to sound clever but someone has probably made this point already! ) I for one look forward to the day I can get a pair of sexed GTP's for a decent price. S'far as 'decent' breeders go, I know of at least two I would trust to give both a fair price as well as as accurate lineage as you could get from someone without doing genetic testing.



Alittle off topic but the bw's have only just become a little more available recently,in the past you would be damn lucky if you could find a stunning example of a TRUE Jullaten locality form black and white to purchase.So as with anything demand and supply is what made them the price they are.I recall when womas were $2,500 each which wasn't too long ago and there were at least quite a few available,with bw's there were none,especially the quality of the ones indicus breeds,I know as I've seen them all and own a few and I was one of the lucky ones that managed to purchase a stunning adult TRUE black and white however I have no information on original locality data but those who know these animals know what's the ridygy didge frrom the pretend bw's.

Just look how long some lines of bg jungles have been fetching top dollar anywhere from $800-$1000 depending on the animal and with some it didn't matter which bg from the clutch was purchased it still got sold for$800 and many were sold before they were even bred and they are now a very common animal where you can now pick and chose and even get pics of the animals you're interested in however a few years ago ppl wouldn't send pics of individual animals and very rarely would you see pics of the adults and one reason for that is that most bg's such as Palmerston types start to smudge or black out after 3 years sometimes even younger and don't look anything like a nice Palmerston in it's prime which start to colour up as early as 6 months old then tend to peak out and look their best around 18 months or so depending on the lineage.Black and whites don't black out however unfortunately don't stay bright white when they're old animals and I'm talking around 10 years old or older but many stay that crispy white still at ages from 3-5 years old and some selective breeding will help to improve that,just take a look at the bw posted by indicus in the maternal incubation thread under general herps and that is as recent a pic as you will get and she's bred twice already.Makes them worth every cent of 3k for a nice pair imo!!!

Personally I'd have been happy to pay old woma prices for top notch bw's anyday if they were available way back when womas were top dollar animals.BW's are or were very rare only 2 seasons ago and now that indicus got some of his original animals back and bred them they're available to those who appreciate top quality real deal locality black and white jungles and will become more and more available as time goes on and the animals people have purchased are bred the prices will most likely drop.Supply and demand dictates the market as it always has!!!


----------



## BROWNS (Nov 23, 2008)

Penalties and fines etc for smuggling or illegaly importing anything will usually impose a fine of 6 thousand dollars at the minimum and it makes one wonder how many times people have actually gotten away with it and how many others are doing it.

I know myself and many others have been approached to attain certain animals for people overseas through a different forum however you'd have to be a clown to think it's as easy to get away with as they make out.I'm sure a few have taken up offers for certain animals when the deal would be a swap for a jag for example which I'm sure will pop up sooner or later sort of like the albino darwins and bhp's all of a sudden popping up overseas????????????


----------



## herpkeeper (Nov 23, 2008)

what makes it even worse are the so called high profile people who write on clutches to "legalise" these smuggled wild caught peices of crap !!!!!!!


----------



## amazonian (Nov 23, 2008)

herpkeeper said:


> what makes it even worse are the so called high profile people who write on clutches to "legalise" these smuggled wild caught peices of crap !!!!!!!


 
It is the buyers that are continuing the black market trade.
Without demand there would be no supply for poachers to exist smuggling.
This is why I did my homework for numerous years before parting any $$ as i wanted 100% LEGAL animals dated back to the 1996 amnesty. I may not have had the variety of bloodlines to work with but atleast I can proudly say I have animals with known history and I can proove this if there was to be any future raids as seen in the past.


----------



## herpkeeper (Nov 23, 2008)

amazonian, so are mine, that's why i got them off a couple of the most respected names in the hobby


----------



## wokka (Nov 23, 2008)

Cordylus said:


> Its amazing how some of the people that have the money to pay for these snakes, have been elevated to expert keepers when they have only had a few years of keeping snakes in general. Keeping an expensive snake does not automatically make you an expert. Especially when most snakes these days have been bred several generations in a row to make them more hardy to life in captivity. If you have money you can also pay someone that knows what he or she is doing to breed your reptiles for you. I take my hat off to any private keeper that has funded his own small projects and been successful in breeding their pair of greens. I also admire the fact that they are selling their animals for what they think is a fair price to allow other keepers to enjoy these amazing animals at a more reasonable price. I am all for expensive rare snakes, but greens have just never fallen in this class to me. Aussies or non-Aussie, Morelia viridis stays Morelia viridis. You can always see who the ones are that have a bit to lose in these threads, they are the ones who pipe up about how it wont effect the prices later in the season. This rubbish of good lines that dont prolapse, all nonsense to keep the price inflated. Why do you have to pay thousands more for a snake because someone says they dont prolapse, would a breeder ever admit to that??? I say go the lower prices!!!



There is no doubt breeding snakes now is far easier than it was in the pioneering days. The availability of captive bred stock and the volume of experience now out there makes it possible to breed predictably rather than by chance as happened in the past. I am not sure about the wisdom in paying someone to breed animals for you. That seems to defeat the whole purpose of keeping and breeding animals.The animals generally breed themselves if you provide the animal with the choice of the right conditions provided you have the right animals to start with. I have learn't the hard way after having to euthanise animals from unscupulous dealers but thats no different to the many animal industries, in which I have been involved in in my 40 years of breeding critters. Now with the advent of instant communication I doubt that the ratbags will last long.


----------



## fishead (Nov 23, 2008)

quote Wokka: breed predictably rather than by chance. 
Wokka didn't you state in a post only a month or two ago that you think most snakes are bred by accident?
That was classic mate. 


quote from Wokka: not sure about the wisdom in paying someone to breed animals for you.
Who bred your albino olives for you?

.....I'm not sure about the wisdom of me posting while under the influence of a few days worth of cold tablets.


----------



## wokka (Nov 23, 2008)

Yeah I believe that most snakes in the past have been bred by accident but now as knowledge biulds and animals are given access to the right conditions the numbers of snakes being bred is increasing. If we take for example my Albino Olives which are anecdotally difficult to breed. When I bought them last year i spent a lot of time talking to Trueblue who was very helpful with his knowledge. I bought the adult pair with their eggs already laid in the incubator and so leant a lot as Rob kept me updated on progress. By applying those principles I succeeded with 4 out of 5 pairs of Olives this year. I have had a very rapid learning curve in breeding snakes which has only been possible because of the generosity of the knowledgeable keepers i have dealt with. To me being able to confidently breed my snakes is a measure of understanding their needs which is why I keep them.
Incedently Steve , those BHPs went this year also, same snakes just different facilities.Maybe when you get over your "cold" give me a ring and get whatever ails you off your chest.


----------



## fishead (Nov 23, 2008)

No ails here mate, besides this damn cold. 
Good that the bhps and olives did the business.


----------



## fishead (Nov 24, 2008)

Ah no sleep for me again, just wanted to add Wokka, again there was no angst. Just some confusion over what I thought was fairly contradictory. This is a disscussion forum. Wouldn't you rather me throw that up there for your reply than sit here, probably like most others, scratching my head? I am easily confused though and according to my wife communication is my greatest weak point so maybe I should just shut the .... up :lol:
PS. It didn't say anything on the pill packet about NOT crushing up the pills and snorting them. :lol:


----------



## mungus (Nov 24, 2008)

The unfortunate thing in any thread is that a post can be read in so many ways.
Its just human nature to take it the wrong way [ I know I do at times............. ok,ok......most times.....lol ].
On another completely different note [ sorry ], does anyone know much about the pigmy pythons.
Their pretty thin in collections [ so I'm led to believe ], anyone know the going price for them ??
Anyone will / got any available ??


----------



## wokka (Nov 24, 2008)

fishead said:


> Ah no sleep for me again, just wanted to add Wokka, again there was no angst. Just some confusion over what I thought was fairly contradictory. This is a disscussion forum. Wouldn't you rather me throw that up there for your reply than sit here, probably like most others, scratching my head? I am easily confused though and according to my wife communication is my greatest weak point so maybe I should just shut the .... up :lol:
> PS. It didn't say anything on the pill packet about NOT crushing up the pills and snorting them. :lol:



Fishead I am sure you will find contradictions in my posts either because my opinions change or as an indication of my poor writing skills.I much prefer verbal but in this day and age it seems the written word is the way to go. I read some texts 3 and 4 times and still dont know what they mean so I guess I just have to accept I never be up to the communication levels of many of the younger participants. Yes Mungus I think posts can often be interpreted ambiguously . I often go back to read my own post and think , Why did I write that? I treat posting more like a yarn in the pub rather than a session in court. A bit like trying to work out snakes- Its fun.


----------



## serpenttongue (Nov 24, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> What ever happened to growing your collection over time? We as I'm sure lots of others as well started out with the cheaper stuff,bred from them and used any profit made to purchase more expensive animals, to me its a natural progression.


 
Agreed.


----------



## CodeRed (Nov 24, 2008)

Ramsayi said:


> What ever happened to growing your collection over time? We as I'm sure lots of others as well started out with the cheaper stuff,bred from them and used any profit made to purchase more expensive animals, to me its a natural progression.


 
Yeap, totally agree. Earning your greens is far more satisfying than just forking out cash and treating them according to their dollar value.


----------



## wokka (Nov 24, 2008)

I grew my family over time, then my farm, then some houses ,so now at 53 I am just about out of time. I am not sure that breeding up over four years is any worse than breeding up over 24 years. Some people might say I haven't earned my greens, but from my point of view I have probably made just as many mistakes as others but with many species of animals instead of just reptiles, , so; is my experience equal?


----------



## TrueBlue (Nov 24, 2008)

I think warwick has done dam well for the amount of time hes been keeping herps. Every thing he keeps he breeds with out much trouble at all. Its a credit to him i recon. Well done mate.!!!!


----------



## Slateman (Nov 24, 2008)

There is no need to go personal here.
Better to stay on topic.


----------



## mungus (Nov 25, 2008)

Slateman said:


> There is no need to go personal here.
> Better to stay on topic.



Ok, Back on the topic............
Just finished reading Simion Stones article ' GTP's and the school of experience '.
Basically he goes through and explains all the mistakes he made and how he lost 5
GTP's ranging from hatchies to Adults...........:shock:
Now, a man with that much experience can have so many hassel's etc, someone try and tell me their as easy to keep as other pythons.............
Alot of the breeders make out that they are, so that sales can continue.
Infact, it appears than they are more than a handfull and i'd say thats why they are on a class 2 licence.
Imagine spending $6000 on a hatchie and it prolapse's and die's after the first feed.............:shock:
Now, multiply that by 5.............:shock::shock::shock:


----------



## Jason (Nov 25, 2008)

mungus said:


> Ok, Back on the topic............
> Just finished reading Simion Stones article ' GTP's and the school of experience '.
> Basically he goes through and explains all the mistakes he made and how he lost 5
> GTP's ranging from hatchies to Adults...........:shock:
> ...



i had a read of that article when it come out and i couldnt believe the run of bad luck he had with them. i personally dont know anyone with that much bad luck with them. But i guess the more you keep the more likely you are to have problems. from what i have seen, read and done they arent that difficult. actually i reckon you'll have MUCH more problems if you fuss about them so much. just feed water and leave them. when they are older and bigger they are easier and safer to handle.


----------



## zulu (Nov 25, 2008)

*re Price*

Just the old class 2 poo syndrome,thems the breaks,latest newsflash :lol:Gtp morphs selling his very yellow yearling for 3400,why by a hatchling when you can get a yearling.


----------



## TroopyF (Nov 26, 2008)

GSXR_Boy said:


> Because even they think it's crap and are looking for the off button!


 
Well said


----------

