# Unusual behaviour



## Emma96 (Jun 3, 2018)

Hello all hoping for some insight 

My friends bredli has been acting weird and showing some odd behaviour, she seems to be having troubles moving and looks like she is getting stuck on herself. Some behaviour seems like neurological but at the same time does not. 
They have seeked help from a veterinarian which has said everything feels and looks fine and given her a 3 week course of antibiotics.

It's been 3 days since vet trip and symptoms started and doesn't seem to be improving and maybe even getting worse.

Im posting some photos of how she has been sitting and she gets stuck and needs help to get out of it.


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 4, 2018)

Definitely of serious concern. There may be various reasons why a snake behaves in this way, but one which should be eliminated asap is that it may have been exposed to one of the several viral diseases which affect the ability to move properly. Does the snake have the ability to right itself if it is turned over? Has it been exposed to other snakes or recent unquarantined acquisitions? If it is a viral infection, they are always fatal once symptoms manifest themselves. You need the advice of a specialist reptile vet on this one. There are 5 or 6 different viral diseases found in snakes in Australian collections, and most can be tested for now, via blood, oral or cloacal swab. The samples are sent to Murdoch Uni in Perth for assessment. This should be done asap, and needless to say, the snake and all equipment used in its care should be isolated from any other animals the keeper may have. Hand washing between cages is a must, as some of them are highly contagious via saliva, faeces or airborne particles...

Jamie


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## Emma96 (Jun 4, 2018)

T


pythoninfinite said:


> Definitely of serious concern. There may be various reasons why a snake behaves in this way, but one which should be eliminated asap is that it may have been exposed to one of the several viral diseases which affect the ability to move properly. Does the snake have the ability to right itself if it is turned over? Has it been exposed to other snakes or recent unquarantined acquisitions? If it is a viral infection, they are always fatal once symptoms manifest themselves. You need the advice of a specialist reptile vet on this one. There are 5 or 6 different viral diseases found in snakes in Australian collections, and most can be tested for now, via blood, oral or cloacal swab. The samples are sent to Murdoch Uni in Perth for assessment. This should be done asap, and needless to say, the snake and all equipment used in its care should be isolated from any other animals the keeper may have. Hand washing between cages is a must, as some of them are highly contagious via saliva, faeces or airborne particles...
> 
> Jamie


Thank so very much for the information.

They will be seeking help from a reptile vet asap, she has been quarantined away from the other snakes with temps bumped up. My question is how quickly can signs show if it is a viral disease? They have only had her for a few months the owner before that had gotten her from a bad situation where she was underweight and not well looked after, is it something that show symptoms quickly or something that could have been there for sometime before showing any symptoms at all?


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 4, 2018)

The news isn't good as far as incubation periods are concerned - they can take weeks, months, or in some cases, years to show symptoms, so they can be a carrier and spreading the virus for a long time before symptoms show. There is one case when it was over 900 days since a positive test was revealed, with no obvious symptoms, but continued testing showed that the snake was shedding virus during that 900 days, and therefore potentially infectious. Was the snake quarantined as a routine precaution when acquired, or only since it showed these symptoms?

Jamie


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## Emma96 (Jun 4, 2018)

Wow that's scary and upsetting ):
I do not believe they quarantined the snake when acquiring but did when symptoms started.

So now do they just watch and act with the other reptiles?

Also again thank you for the information and help 



pythoninfinite said:


> The news isn't good as far as incubation periods are concerned - they can take weeks, months, or in some cases, years to show symptoms, so they can be a carrier and spreading the virus for a long time before symptoms show. There is one case when it was over 900 days since a positive test was revealed, with no obvious symptoms, but continued testing showed that the snake was shedding virus during that 900 days, and therefore potentially infectious. Was the snake quarantined as a routine precaution when acquired, or only since it showed these symptoms?
> 
> Jamie


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm sure most people don't quarantine their new acquisitions properly, because not many people take the risks seriously (or even know about it), and to be honest, effective quarantine procedures are tedious to follow, but these days very important. Another problem with new acquisitions is that infected snakes don't shed detectable virus all the time, so one negative test over a 12 month quarantine period will definitely not guarantee freedom from latent disease - it is possible that even several tests on an infected animal may return a negative result over an extensive period of time because they don't shed detectable virus all the time. So, a positive result means that the animal is infected and although not showing symptoms, it will likely succumb at some stage, months or even years into the future, and it will ALWAYS be a threat to other non-infected snakes in the collection. A negative test will not tell you that the snake is free from virus, but a test at acquisition, and another after 12 months quarantine with no symptoms, will be of some assurance, but NOT a guarantee, that the animal is clean.

By far the safest way to acquire new animals if you need to or want to, is to contact a breeder who is aware of the risk of viral disease and manages his/her collection with appropriate protocols - and generally this means a closed collection - some of the keepers I know have not acquired any new animals for 12-15 years. Picking up animals just because they are available, with an unknown history and from people who have bred them "just because they can," is asking for trouble. Unfortunately if this animal is proven to have a viral disease, and has been in some sort of contact with other snakes in a collection, either directly or through shared water bowls, feeding tongs, handling with unwashed hands/arms between cages or even offering uneaten food from one cage to another, all the other snakes will be at risk of infection as well, so should not be passed on to anyone else in the future.

As I said before, it may not be a viral disease, but it does need to be tested because from what you describe, it sounds like it might be.

Jamie


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## Emma96 (Jun 4, 2018)

I have just got a update

They have had to put her down unfortunately due to her decreasing over night. She will be getting autopsies done but they believe it is sunshine viruse ):


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 4, 2018)

Thanks for that Emma. A very unfortunate outcome. Sunshine virus is probably the commonest of the viral diseases seen in pythons here in Oz (there are five or six others which have been picked up at different times), and symptoms are commonly uncontrolled movement and knotting, and the inability to right themselves if turned onto their backs.

I'm sorry to hear that. Do you know if the vet was able to offer advice about the other animals in the collection?

Jamie


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## Emma96 (Jun 4, 2018)

Yes very upsetting and a bad outcome ): 

I believe the vet did offer advice but if you have any that would be amazing just to incase the vet had missed anything.


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## pythoninfinite (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm not a vet but have been around snakes for a very long time. If they explained to the vet the circumstances and contact that the euthanased animal has had with their other snakes, an *experienced* reptile vet will likely have covered as many bases as possible. Unfortunately once a diseased animal has had contact with others in a collection by any of the means already mentioned, it's pretty much a matter of keeping the remaining animals locked down in perpetuity - one of the very unfortunate aspects of these diseases, because selling them or otherwise passing them on to others could have potentially devastating consequences.

Jamie


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## ronhalling (Jun 6, 2018)

@Emma96 I think before the vet starts quoting "Sunshine Virus" it might be a good idea to send a sample of it's blood to the vet hospital at Sugarloaf Point, our local Reptile Vet thought that "Sunshine Virus" was what was wrong with our Intergrade but i insisted he do a bit more investigating before we euthanized it, our Intergrade had exactly the same symptoms you described at the beginning of this thread but after the Sugarloaf Vet Hospital conducted their studies on the blood sample we insisted our Vet send them it was found our Intergrade had a condition called *"Septic Arthritis" *and with a continued course of anti inflammatories and pain relief she lived on a few more years until the "Getting stuck on itself" part of it became so bad she could no longer maneuver her body to eat properly and at that stage we decided to euthanize, I know it is too late now and the damage is done but maybe others reading this might take note and not jump on the first bandwagon that is offered and get a second and sometimes a third opinion.

*




*
*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling- *


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## Emma96 (Jul 4, 2018)

ronhalling said:


> @Emma96 I think before the vet starts quoting "Sunshine Virus" it might be a good idea to send a sample of it's blood to the vet hospital at Sugarloaf Point, our local Reptile Vet thought that "Sunshine Virus" was what was wrong with our Intergrade but i insisted he do a bit more investigating before we euthanized it, our Intergrade had exactly the same symptoms you described at the beginning of this thread but after the Sugarloaf Vet Hospital conducted their studies on the blood sample we insisted our Vet send them it was found our Intergrade had a condition called *"Septic Arthritis" *and with a continued course of anti inflammatories and pain relief she lived on a few more years until the "Getting stuck on itself" part of it became so bad she could no longer maneuver her body to eat properly and at that stage we decided to euthanize, I know it is too late now and the damage is done but maybe others reading this might take note and not jump on the first bandwagon that is offered and get a second and sometimes a third opinion.
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Thankyou for your information, they have got a autopsy on her so we have to wait about 3 weeks for the results so we are hoping it's something not as bad and contagious for the well-being of the other snakes 
[doublepost=1530658724,1528242238][/doublepost]Hey all so unfortunately it was sunshine viruse and now testing of my friends collection is a must. This is one part of the autopsy report 

*It was PCR-positive for sunshinevirus. And not just PCR-positive, it had an extraordinarily largequantity of virus in it (about as much as I’ve ever seen in a sample).*


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