# Where has banter been?



## BredliFreak (May 13, 2016)

We haven't had a huge argument/debate in a while, what's up with that? Normally there's one every couple of months!

Anyone want to start an educated and controversial debate?

*Side note:this is a joke thread but feel free to have some casual banter below


----------



## ShaunMorelia (May 13, 2016)

shut yo mouth!


----------



## Stompsy (May 13, 2016)

All banter/argumentative threads get closed because people can never refrain from making personal attacks at one another! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iguana (May 13, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> We haven't had a huge argument/debate in a while, what's up with that? Normally there's one every couple of months!
> 
> Anyone want to start an educated and controversial debate?
> 
> *Side note:this is a joke thread but feel free to have some casual banter below



Unfortunately from what i've seen the 'educated' side soon turns towards insulting and personal attacks. It's a shame we can't have a civilized debate for long, people usually bring up good points and info!


----------



## Wally (May 13, 2016)

Trump is a moron..........


----------



## pinefamily (May 13, 2016)

Wally said:


> Trump is a moron..........


That's not banter that's fact.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


----------



## Wally (May 13, 2016)

pinefamily said:


> That's not banter that's fact.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk



You're like a box of wet matches on Guy Fawkes night.......... over before it began.


----------



## BredliFreak (May 13, 2016)

Very true Piney. But I doubt he'll be able to run the country, he's not even allowed to run his own casino  not to mention countless bankruptcies.


----------



## kingofnobbys (May 13, 2016)

Wally said:


> Trump is a moron..........



Yep .... no debate on that fact .... trouble is he may wind up Pres of the USA and then we're all gonna be in trouble.

- - - Updated - - -

true ...

- - - Updated - - -



Stompsy said:


> All banter/argumentative threads get closed because people can never refrain from making personal attacks at one another!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


true


----------



## Herpo (May 13, 2016)

One word people...CATS! There you go Bredli, a debate! :lol:


----------



## Stompsy (May 13, 2016)

Herpo said:


> One word people...CATS! There you go Bredli, a debate! :lol:



I love cats.


----------



## Herpo (May 13, 2016)

Me to, but the sentiment isn't shared by all. Search up cat on the forums and the first page has 3 or 4 cat arguments


----------



## Planky (May 13, 2016)

Yup cats! 
My neighbours let there's run freeeeeeeeee

Wait wait wait let me microwave some popcorn


----------



## Herpo (May 13, 2016)

Save some for me.

In all seriousness, a good debate is fun, but here they get personal fast. Anyone here remember that thread on neurological problems? Where we were arguing about the ethics of caring for sick reptiles?


----------



## Wally (May 13, 2016)

Herpo said:


> Save some for me.
> 
> In all seriousness, a good debate is fun, but here they get personal fast. Anyone here remember that thread on neurological problems? Where we were arguing about the ethics of caring for sick reptiles?




Meh....

It's all been pretty tame lately. 

When jags were first smuggled...... cough...... splutter .... sorry...... I mean miraculously appeared in collections up and down the east coast, now there was a time of heated debate.


----------



## Herpo (May 13, 2016)

Yeah, the problem is threads get closed before the debate gets to sort itself out. Then we have grudges and arguments spill over to other threads.


----------



## Wally (May 13, 2016)

Herpo said:


> Yeah, the problem is threads get closed before the debate gets to sort itself out. Then we have grudges and arguments spill over to other threads.



Sometimes it's probably better they're closed Herpo. Opinions can be strong, and they're never going to be changed. I know mine can be.


----------



## Stompsy (May 14, 2016)

Herpo said:


> Me to, but the sentiment isn't shared by all. Search up cat on the forums and the first page has 3 or 4 cat arguments



I'm well aware of the feline hate on this forum. I've been a victim of abuse for simply stating that my indoor only cats have gotten out for 5 minutes, once or twice. It's completely ridiculous.


----------



## pinefamily (May 14, 2016)

I believe a thread about pygmy banded pythons got out of hand with VERY heated debate; before it got closed down. It had a side argument about pygmy pythons between two who very experienced keepers that I have heard is now going to court.


----------



## BredliFreak (May 14, 2016)

Link to that Piney? We needed more popcorn than we thought. It'll be interesting to see what happens but why are they taking something to court?


----------



## pinefamily (May 14, 2016)

That thread has gone the way of other controversial threads unfortunately. Rather than deleting whole threads, perhaps it might be better if they were locked when things got out of hand.
The court thing I heard about outside of this forum. Something to do with proof regarding species ID.


----------



## Wally (May 15, 2016)

pinefamily said:


> That thread has gone the way of other controversial threads unfortunately. Rather than deleting whole threads, perhaps it might be better if they were locked when things got out of hand.



In the case of that particular thread I understand why it was removed from public view. I would've done the same thing if I was admin.


----------



## ShaunMorelia (May 16, 2016)

Wally said:


> When jags were first smuggled...... cough...... splutter .... sorry...... I mean miraculously appeared in collections up and down the east coast, now there was a time of heated debate.



Most of them appeared in Adelaide actually 
Popped up as Reduced Pattern Morelia/Morph (RPM)

Having obtained some in the early years as well, I too copped a bit of flack, sorta still do.
But most of the time it's from people who have never kept them or just regurgitating mis-information that they've read online....
There is a great thread on a US forum about the Neuro issue in Jags and is pretty much the exact same mutation as the Spider Ball Python. The only real difference is that Jaguar keepers were open to discussion about the mutations issue where a lot of ball python keepers are tight lipped about it.


----------



## ronhalling (May 16, 2016)

There was a faction of members that were here that liked nothing better than to start problems in controversial subjects, thankfully they are gone now and with Stuart's zero tolerance to that crap now in place i think we can now have spirited and educational debates without it becoming personal, I am not so deluded not to think there are going to be times when someone gets a bit flustered trying to get their point across on a particular subject, but i think the results are going to be a bit more adult in content, so why not have the subjects of cats and nuero revisited, i reckon the outcomes could be quite different now. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling


----------



## Tinky (May 16, 2016)

I still don't know why people got so stressed when I said that I had photocopied my juvinile snake to measure him.


----------



## kingofnobbys (May 16, 2016)

Tinky said:


> I still don't know why people got so stressed when I said that I had photocopied my juvinile snake to measure him.



Surely you didn't ?


----------



## Burgo89 (May 16, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Surely you didn't ?



Wow


----------



## BredliFreak (May 17, 2016)

Tinky said:


> I still don't know why people got so stressed when I said that I had photocopied my juvinile snake to measure him.



:lol: Comment of the year 11/10

I still don't know why people were so frightened about using my snakes skin for a project, he'll just grow them back right?


----------



## Shaggz (May 17, 2016)

I have been away from herps for a couple of years and just come back to the Forums, It appears that a hell of a lot has changed since I used to frequent here and a hell of a lot more has disappeared.


----------



## pinefamily (May 18, 2016)

ronhalling said:


> There was a faction of members that were here that liked nothing better than to start problems in controversial subjects, thankfully they are gone now and with Stuart's zero tolerance to that crap now in place i think we can now have spirited and educational debates without it becoming personal, I am not so deluded not to think there are going to be times when someone gets a bit flustered trying to get their point across on a particular subject, but i think the results are going to be a bit more adult in content, so why not have the subjects of *cats and nuero* revisited, i reckon the outcomes could be quite different now. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling



My cat has neuro. 
There I started the topic for you, Ron.  

- - - Updated - - -


----------



## MineralMagic (May 18, 2016)

As an unexperienced member i feel as if wedging my self into the conversation may very well cause an argument.


----------



## ronhalling (May 18, 2016)

pinefamily said:


> My cat has neuro.
> There I started the topic for you, Ron.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -



Hmmmm, that "IS" an interesting problem PF, does it manifest itself whilst exhibiting excitement when it brings a bird in for you or is it more pronounced while stalking native animals, maybe someone who has a cat that wanders unchecked in the night might be able to offer better advice than me, most of my limited contact with cats where i live is when i have to get out the 9 iron to convince the cat next door to go home. I hope you get some constructive information regarding your neuro cat or maybe someone with a neuro dog might advise whether the symptoms are similar. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling


----------



## pinefamily (May 18, 2016)

In reality Ron, I'm like you. While I don't play golf (putt putt is my limit), I do have to chase cats out of our front yard occasionally. That is the limit of my feline contact.


----------



## BredliFreak (May 18, 2016)

I only know of one stray cat in the neighbourhood, and I've never seen outside of two of my neighbours houses (that I am aware of anyways) I just get annoying possums instead. I don't play golf but I have some soccer boots or tennis rackets that might substitute :twisted: jk

To our QLD members, does anyone here play cane toad golf?


----------



## imalizardbro (May 18, 2016)

Trump will win that is a fact.


----------



## Murph_BTK (May 18, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> I only know of one stray cat in the neighbourhood, and I've never seen outside of two of my neighbours houses (that I am aware of anyways) I just get annoying possums instead. I don't play golf but I have some soccer boots or tennis rackets that might substitute :twisted: jk
> 
> To our QLD members, does anyone here play cane toad golf?


Too answer that last question YEP!! not worried of the backlash... almost 40mtrs on some shots


----------



## Stuart (May 18, 2016)

Nothing wrong with banter, each to their own however instigating it at the detriment of others is just petty IMO.

Either way, a debate is always healthy.

Game of Thrones is not a good TV show...


----------



## pinefamily (May 18, 2016)

Stuart said:


> Nothing wrong with banter, each to their own however instigating it at the detriment of others is just petty IMO.
> 
> Either way, a debate is always healthy.
> 
> Game of Thrones is not a good TV show...


Now them's fighting words, Stuart. lol


----------



## Wally (May 18, 2016)

imalizardbro said:


> Trump will win that is a fact.



A child proof lock on the red button will need to be installed if that were to happen.


----------



## pinefamily (May 18, 2016)

Wally said:


> A child proof lock on the red button will need to be installed if that were to happen.



It was bad enough when Reagan got alzheimers.


----------



## ronhalling (May 19, 2016)

Stuart said:


> Nothing wrong with banter, each to their own however instigating it at the detriment of others is just petty IMO.
> 
> Either way, a debate is always healthy.
> 
> Game of Thrones is not a good TV show...



All good Stu, not trying to Instigate anything, and those with a decent sense of humor will see that my ramblings were just an attempt at doing a mishmash of all the argument worthy subjects in 1 post so as not to appear biased on any 1 subject and to show that it is OK to broach any subject without anyone feeling like it is an attack on them or their particular animal of choice be it large or small pest or pet, if we can't laugh at ourselves how are we going to laugh with others. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -ronhalling


----------



## Stuart (May 19, 2016)

All good Ron, my post wasn't ai,ed at anyone and apologies if it was worded that way. 
I hoped the final comment would appease the forum gods from releasing the hounds.


----------



## pythonmum (May 20, 2016)

Here's a good topic for banter - is it worth producing albino jags? Given that the mutation affects the migration of cells that produce melanin and albinos don't produce melanin, it seems pointless to me. Any photos to convince me otherwise?

(Double mutations are always good for controversial banter)


----------



## Sdaji (May 20, 2016)

Exotics. Surprised no one else dropped the nuclear bomb.

I'm also surprised that people would call Trump a moron. I could understand debates about liking or disliking him, but he is enough of a moron to have made billions of dollars and unless he is assassinated, in six month he will be elected as president of the USA, arguably the most powerful man in the world. He must have some idea what he is doing.


----------



## CrazyNut (May 21, 2016)

Herpo said:


> Yeah, the problem is threads get closed before the debate gets to sort itself out. Then we have grudges and arguments spill over to other threads.


Cough..cough.... Pygmy croc thread.... Cough....cough....cough

- - - Updated - - -



Sdaji said:


> Exotics. Surprised no one else dropped the nuclear bomb.
> 
> I'm also surprised that people would call Trump a moron. I could understand debates about liking or disliking him, but he is enough of a moron to have made billions of dollars and unless he is assassinated, in six month he will be elected as president of the USA, arguably the most powerful man in the world. He must have some idea what he is doing.


Nuclear bomb??? Pfft. 

3

2

1

"I got all my lizards from my backyard Oh I also got one from the park down the road.... I don't see what the problem with that is."


----------



## BredliFreak (May 21, 2016)

Pah, I have something far superior to your crappily crafted "bombs."

Dropping in 3

2

1

"I found a corn snake at the park, I don't see why I can't keep it!"


----------



## pythonmum (May 21, 2016)

I honestly met a guy from NSW Parks who asked me for advice about keeping the Honduran milk snake he had been given. Needless to say, he did NOT work in wildlife licensing. I answered his question and then pointed out that he might be fired if his bosses ever found out what he was keeping. He was in the plant end of things and really didn't know.:shock:


----------



## Wally (May 21, 2016)

After spending the last few hours going through threads I've posted on in the past I've gotta say things really have tamed down now. Some of the humour expressed in the past seems to have been lost a little, as clever and subtle as it was. 

And this was a time when the forum was ridiculously over moderated!

Also funny to read threads from members who were banned in that period who have now rejoined under new names and are current members.


----------



## CrazyNut (May 21, 2016)

We don't have subtle and witty humour now???!


----------



## Wally (May 21, 2016)

CrazyNut said:


> We don't have subtle and witty humour now???!



Sure...... why not.


----------



## pinefamily (May 22, 2016)

Subtle as an axe blow to the shoulder.....


----------



## BredliFreak (May 22, 2016)

Witty? Generally. Subtle? About as subtle as an elephant in a white room.


----------



## Tinky (May 23, 2016)

Don't forget the urban myths that used to get a regular run in the forums.


----------



## kingofnobbys (May 23, 2016)

Do you really miss the trolls, flames, baiting and outright nastiness .... ?


----------



## BredliFreak (May 23, 2016)

A little tbh, but generally the nastiness of the argument is overrexaggerated. I mean, we haven't even used the C word yet (no not crap) from what I've seen

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of banter, Hey [MENTION=41820]pythoninfinite[/MENTION] there's a "Pygmy Python" ad and it neither has Pygmy banded so or per thesis from what I can see


----------



## pythoninfinite (May 23, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> A little tbh, but generally the nastiness of the argument is overrexaggerated. I mean, we haven't even used the C word yet (no not crap) from what I've seen
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Speaking of banter, Hey @pythoninfinite there's a "Pygmy Python" ad and it neither has Pygmy banded so or per thesis from what I can see



Ha! Been out of range of mobiles and computers for a few days - may be a good thing... But I'll bite - the ad depicts Antaresia perthensis, not stimsoni... Very different build and pattern to the "pygmy Stimson's" offered by some breeders.

I always enjoy a good hearty debate, but when it just becomes a slanging match of personal abuse, and the junk-yard dogs follow on opportunistically with their smarmy, smart-**** comments, I'll bow out. It makes hard work for the mods as well...

Jamie


----------



## Wally (May 23, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Do you really miss the trolls, flames, baiting and outright nastiness .... ?



Who mentioned any of that?

I did see some of your old threads pop up in my search though.


----------



## BredliFreak (May 23, 2016)

Ok, jut looked a bit like stimsoni to me compared to what I'm assuming is meant to be perthensis but that's just my terrible eyesight


----------



## Sdaji (May 26, 2016)

Wow. APS has changed. Even the exotic bomb didn't get the slightest hint of reaction. Who'd have thought it possible?

Let's try hybrids.

Hybrids, they're so cool (or crap, anyone who keeps them is evil).

Also (this may actually work and get a reaction), a cross between two subspecies is correctly called a hybrid.

Ooh ooh, also, according to the actual definition of poison/poisonous, other than a small number of recently changed dictionaries, it is 100% correct to call all venomous snakes poisonous. Surely that'll get a bite from someone.

Interestingly though, the 'there are no poisonous snakes' myth started by snake people may actually have become strong enough to change the dictionary definition so that the myth becomes truth.


----------



## Stompsy (May 26, 2016)

Sdaji said:


> Wow. APS has changed. Even the exotic bomb didn't get the slightest hint of reaction. Who'd have thought it possible?
> 
> Let's try hybrids.
> 
> ...



Cool story bro, needs more dragons. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BredliFreak (May 26, 2016)

Sdaji said:


> Interestingly though, the 'there are no poisonous snakes' myth started by snake people may actually have become strong enough to change the dictionary definition so that the myth becomes truth.



Wow that's kinda sad. I'm pretty sure it's the Tiger Keelback that is POISONOUS (and I think slightly venomous) right?


----------



## BrownHash (May 27, 2016)

Sdaji said:


> Also (this may actually work and get a reaction), a cross between two subspecies is correctly called a hybrid.
> 
> Ooh ooh, also, according to the actual definition of poison/poisonous, other than a small number of recently changed dictionaries, it is 100% correct to call all venomous snakes poisonous. Surely that'll get a bite from someone.
> 
> Interestingly though, the 'there are no poisonous snakes' myth started by snake people may actually have become strong enough to change the dictionary definition so that the myth becomes truth.



Agree with all Sdaji's points. I've always found it interesting how people regurgitate a "fact" because it sounds interesting. I remember when people use to think that you could see the great wall of china from space with the naked eye.

The one that use to always get me was when people would insist that a tortoise was not a turtle. 

Then I learnt to let things go. 

At the end of the day, I can happily accept when someone else is wrong.


----------



## Wally (May 28, 2016)

Aliens exist.... Some of my work colleagues are irrefutable proof.


----------



## Sdaji (May 28, 2016)

BredliFreak said:


> Wow that's kinda sad. I'm pretty sure it's the Tiger Keelback that is POISONOUS (and I think slightly venomous) right?



Not just that. All venomous snakes are poisonous. Venom is poison. Any chemical substance with can harm a living thing in any way is a poison. This is according to the dictionary definition of poison. However, just recently, due to pressure from snake folks, some dictionaries have started changing their definitions to make the myth myth truth, which is really quite a shame. It may change in the near future, but it is perfectly correct to call any venomous snake a poisonous snake (although most snake folks will bite your head off and argue and sook). I say venomous rather than poisonous because it's a better term, in the same way that I call a snake a snake and not an animal, but it's still correct to call a snake an animal.

Incidentally, I actually once caught one of those poisonous Keelbacks, incorrectly identified it and freehandled it, pushing its head back into position for pictures while it struck at me! Ooops! I'm a bit more cautious with my foreign snake ID after that! The next snake I caught was in Tokyo (pretty awesome to catch a snake in Toyko!) and despite being 100% sure it was a harmless ratsnake, I didn't freehandle it. Well, that and the fact that it was desperately trying to bite me the entire time, and venomous or not I don't especially like being bitten 


BrownHash: Yeah, that's a good one, and also toads/frogs, and all the others. You even see memes made by people mocking those who think a tortoise is a turtle or that snakes are poisonous. Of course, try to correct them and they'll lose their spit.


----------



## pinefamily (May 28, 2016)

Wally said:


> Aliens exist.... Some of my work colleagues are irrefutable proof.


And Donald Trump. No human apart from Don King would have hair like that.


----------



## pythoninfinite (May 30, 2016)

The turtle/tortoise thing... seems to me that now, the term "turtle" is used for all aquatic chelonians, and "tortoise" covers those that live on land, but I remember as a kid, the aquatic (not marine) critters in this country were strictly regarded as tortoises, and you got a smack on the wrist if you referred to them as turtles, although turtle was in common use in the US in those times for freshwater chelonians. I think it was something to do with feet vs flippers at that time.

Been away from the computer for the better part of two weeks, firstly working at a bamboo nursery in Kundabung near Port Macquarie, then down to Katoomba (vexingly cold), where I spent a pleasant but exceptionally bleak day with Bushman looking for herps when it was about -70C with a 300km/h wind... I am truly doubtful whether any reptile would be silly enough to live in that climate . Just kidding Patrick, and thanks so much for the time together! One day I'll see a Copperhead in NSW...

Jamie


----------



## kingofnobbys (Jun 2, 2016)

HUSBANDRY - Don't feed any skink dog or cat food regularly or on a long term basis .... WRONG KINDS of proteins and fats..... let the debate for and against begin .... again ....

- - - Updated - - -



pinefamily said:


> And Donald Trump. No human apart from Don King would have hair like that.



if the yanks elect him , we will all in trouble ....


----------



## alichamp (Jun 3, 2016)

How long have you been keeping blueys or skinks [MENTION=41275]kingofnobbys[/MENTION]?

- - - Updated - - -

If you have had this debate many times before I'm not sure the point of having it again.


----------



## pythoninfinite (Jun 3, 2016)

I stayed with a friend last week, a PhD herpetologist who has worked with herps all his professional life, and he told me how he has fed his Blueys nothing but Supercoat dry cat food for the last 5 years and two generations, with excellent health and good breeding outcomes. I'm not a lizard keeper, and my own instincts would tell me to provide as varied a diet as possible, but the animals I saw and held were plump, alert and in great condition. Definitely not taking sides here - Bluey poo is so stinky , but maybe for the time-constrained pelleted food is adequate?

Jamie


----------



## GBWhite (Jun 3, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> HUSBANDRY - Don't feed any skink dog or cat food regularly or on a long term basis .... WRONG KINDS of proteins and fats..... let the debate for and against begin .... again ....



I'll bite.

You seem to like to stir the pot my friend and I think your limited experience doesn't place you in a position to make such a comment. 

Sorry KON but this information is not quite right. I've kept BTS, SB, EBD and WD on a staple diet of canned dog food for to many years to count and all have maintained excellent health. I have many friends who do similar with the diet for their lizards. I also know first hand that it is the staple diet for large lizards at a lot of the well know wildlife parks.

Cheers,

George.


----------



## Wally (Jun 3, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> HUSBANDRY - Don't feed any skink dog or cat food regularly or on a long term basis .... WRONG KINDS of proteins and fats..... let the debate for and against begin .... again ....



SPAM is no good for them either.....


----------



## kingofnobbys (Jun 3, 2016)

GBWhite said:


> I'll bite.
> 
> You seem to like to stir the pot my friend and I think your limited experience doesn't place you in a position to make such a comment.
> 
> ...



Been in a supermarket lately, there are literally hundreds of variations of "dog food" .... if you use dog food as skink staple food, recommend a brand and type (I'm sure there people who want to try out dog food for their skinks , but don't know which to choose , a poor choice will likely be bad for their skink/s).


----------



## Wally (Jun 3, 2016)

** settles in, puts on some tunes and cooks a little popcorn **


----------



## GBWhite (Jun 3, 2016)

kingofnobbys said:


> Been in a supermarket lately, there are literally hundreds of variations of "dog food" .... if you use dog food as skink staple food, recommend a brand and type (I'm sure there people who want to try out dog food for their skinks , but don't know which to choose , a poor choice will likely be bad for their skink/s).



I've got better things to do with my time than waist it in supermarkets. I let the better half do that. So for anyone interested I usually use Pedigree puppy food but have also found that any puppy food or cat food that doesn't contain fish product is fine.

I've had the popcorn ready for a while now Wally as I was expecting a reply...hahaha.


----------



## Wally (Jun 3, 2016)

You'll always get one George. 

Indulge if you must....

History is always amusing to view if you know where to look. :facepalm:


----------



## Jackrabbit (Jun 4, 2016)

After reading everyone's posts I can't believe there is finally a thread free of spelling or grammatical errors. Well I did see one but I let it slide.

Members here must have gone to school recently cause the forum used to be littered with spelling errors that would be frowned upon if you brought them up but since there aren't any now it is OK to mention the lack of them because no one can take offence.


----------



## Wally (Jun 4, 2016)

Jackrabbit said:


> After reading everyone's posts I can't believe there is finally a thread free of spelling or grammatical errors. Well I did see one but I'll let it slide.
> 
> Members here must have gone to school recently because the forum used to be littered with spelling errors that would be frowned upon if you brought them up, but since there aren't any now it is OK to mention the lack of them because no one can take offence.



Now you mention it.......


----------



## pinefamily (Jun 5, 2016)

Jackrabbit said:


> After reading everyone's posts I can't believe there is finally a thread free of spelling or grammatical errors. Well I did see one but I let it slide.
> 
> Members here must have gone to school recently cause the forum used to be littered with spelling errors that would be frowned upon if you brought them up but since there aren't any now it is OK to mention the lack of them because no one can take offence.



I was learnt to speak proper.


----------



## Sdaji (Jun 5, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> The turtle/tortoise thing... seems to me that now, the term "turtle" is used for all aquatic chelonians, and "tortoise" covers those that live on land, but I remember as a kid, the aquatic (not marine) critters in this country were strictly regarded as tortoises, and you got a smack on the wrist if you referred to them as turtles, although turtle was in common use in the US in those times for freshwater chelonians. I think it was something to do with feet vs flippers at that time.



All of the land tortoises are true tortoises, but they are still turtles, just as pythons are snakes and snakes are reptiles, a tortoise is a turtle. Snakes are actually lizards too, but that's probably getting a bit too far beyond most people's capacity to handle.

The Australian colloquial usage is irrelevant to anything other than Australian slang. Koalas used to be called Koala bears which never had any relevance to whether or not they were true bears.


----------



## pythoninfinite (Jun 5, 2016)

That's probably what I was trying to say Sdaji - that common usage evolves over time, but is probably "leveling out" and becoming less parochial with the increase in the ease of global communication.

Jackrabbit, I defiantly have to agree with you there!

Jamie


----------



## Sdaji (Jun 5, 2016)

pythoninfinite said:


> That's probably what I was trying to say Sdaji - that common usage evolves over time, but is probably "leveling out" and becoming less parochial with the increase in the ease of global communication.
> 
> Jackrabbit, I defiantly have to agree with you there!
> 
> Jamie



More or less parochial? I am not sure. More or less accurate? Again, I am not sure. When everyone is unanimously agreeing on tortoises not being turtles (utterly incorrect and quite parochial) and that there is no such thing as a venomous snake (again, utterly incorrect, until the myth started to make itself correct and perhaps will become firmly correct, again, extremely parochial), and the countless other examples, it seems easier for the world to come to a consensus (regardless of whether or not it is a good or accurate or correct one) and become globally quite narrow minded. Before, different people in different areas had different views, and were arguably more willing to accept different ideas because they hadn't become so rarefied. The trend towards ridiculing and shunning different ideas seems to be as strong as ever, the desire to be sure that the conventional wisdom is accurate seems lower than ever, and the extent to which the world is unified is obviously greater than ever.


----------



## alichamp (Jun 20, 2016)

Sdaji said:


> Koalas used to be called Koala bears which never had any relevance to whether or not they were true bears.


Only time I've ever heard an Australian call a koala a "koala bear" was my mother in law talking to my children, you know along the same lines as "birdy". I ripped her a new one  I mean really, why does talking to a child mean you have to cutesy up animal names - it's easier for them just to learn 'bird' or 'magpie' or 'koala' or 'dog' rather than the grating 'birdie' etc. And you're actually doing them a disservice because you're teaching them less about the world around them and more about dumbing things down. Sorry, a pet hate of mine... rant over. 

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, here's one. Are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles turtles or tortoises? I guess given the above it doesn't really matter because both would technically be true. 

In the latest movie, Raph makes a point of saying, "we're turtles not tortoises, there's a difference you know" but, much to my personal disappointment, doesn't go on to justify his statement (imagine that rationale in the movie!!). They do live in the sewer but we don't really see them comfortably in water.

My daughter tells me that turtles are faster and tortoises are slow, so the ninja turtles are too fast to be tortoises. Another misconception? Or maybe she's on to something.

So what *are* the differences that make a tortoise a tortoise-type-of-turtle?


----------



## Sdaji (Jun 20, 2016)

alichamp said:


> Only time I've ever heard an Australian call a koala a "koala bear" was my mother in law talking to my children, you know along the same lines as "birdy". I ripped her a new one  I mean really, why does talking to a child mean you have to cutesy up animal names - it's easier for them just to learn 'bird' or 'magpie' or 'koala' or 'dog' rather than the grating 'birdie' etc. And you're actually doing them a disservice because you're teaching them less about the world around them and more about dumbing things down. Sorry, a pet hate of mine... rant over.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Maybe you're younger than me or maybe it's a regional thing. When I was a youngster in the early 80s, most people in Melbourne called them koala bears, and it was something I had to unlearn when I was a bit older. You don't often hear it now, although interestingly, I probably have heard it more over the last two years (I haven't been in Australia) than back when I was in Australia for the previous 10-20 years. Asians, if they know what they are will usually call them koalas, but Americans and others often talk about koala bears when they ask me about Australia.

I wouldn't get too focussed on using Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a herpetological reference, but it's like saying "We're not geckoes, we're lizards!" or "We're not snakes, we're reptiles!" or "We're not Asians, we're humans!". It's not a correct statement.

Tortoises are a clade (a genetic family) of turtles. What makes them tortoises is being genetically part of that group. Their clade does have a lot of characteristics which make them easy to identify. All the tortoises (to my knowledge) spend almost all of their time on land and basically never swim (unless by accident or in unusual circumstances). All other turtles (again, if there are any exceptions I haven't heard of them) spend most of their time in water (unless they're brumating). Some non tortoise turtles have classic flippers and some have clawed webbed hands (like almost all of the Australian turtles), but they're all designed for swimming. All tortoises have very distinctly different feet, almost a bit like elephant feet, which would be useless for swimming. I am not aware of anything intermediate. If it's not a complete flipper or a very obviously webbed hand/foot, it belongs to a tortoise.

Tortoises are sort of slower than turtles, but some tortoises would easily outrun some non tortoise turtles. I think you'd struggle to find any tortoise which could outswim any non tortoise turtle.


----------



## HiramAbiff (Jun 21, 2016)

The best way to start it is to knowingly give false information on a topic, as anyone on my facebook freinds list knows. 
I find it starts healthy debate.


----------



## BredliFreak (Jun 21, 2016)

HiramAbiff said:


> The best way to start it is to knowingly give false information on a topic, as anyone on my facebook freinds list knows.
> I find it starts healthy debate.



*Cough Cough Pythons + UVB debates Cough Cough*

I couldn't have said it better myself HiramAbiff.


----------

