# scales



## wattso (Nov 15, 2003)

Have noticed monty has a few scales peeling ,found one in the water dish, bit worried. is this normal wear n tear or is my humidity too high/low or something????? p.s. definatly no mites just an odd dryness to some scales. 

.....will try to get clear closeup pic in sunlight tom.


----------



## Morelia_man (Nov 15, 2003)

its not tics or some other parasite then is it wattso?


----------



## Fangs (Nov 15, 2003)

Are these belly scales?U got any sharp edges in the enclosure? Things such as lights guards,branches etc should be checked.Run him through your hands and see how many scales are damaged.


----------



## wattso (Nov 15, 2003)

No ext parasites im pretty sure, have done a really good inspection. No, fangs, belly scales are fine, no damage or discoloration, its dorsal scales ,only a few , also small area where he was given worming injection back in july [ivermectin] looks dryed kinda whitish. looks similar to affects of bactril * spell inject[from records, he had bactril for infection in sep last year] could this be it? p.s will get pic later today, hes in his log tight as a bloody clam right now, soon as he goes out on hisperch ill grab him for a shoot, lol


----------



## wattso (Nov 15, 2003)

Darn diddly-arn! my pics didnt come out, they went all blurry.Guess whos not getting a job as a wildlife photographer. will try again tomorrow. it kind od looks like crinkles on the scales. also i noticed his eyes are looking a bit milky, could be pre shed.


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

Ok, got some clear vid of montys scale anomaly, also a scale or two on his side you can see coming off. also do his eyes look a touch pre-shed milky? thanks Dan
http://www.aussiepythons.com/albums/album28/scales.wmv hope the link works

....Help, snake expert with broadband wanted!!!!!!!!!!! immediate start , apply at post above.


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

boy what an overwhelming response to this thread! Thanks fangs and MM anyway.


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 16, 2003)

Sorry Wattso but I can't help you as I haven't got a clue and am unable to open the vid  I'd love to help if I could buddy


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

no worries,thanks anyway Africa, how goes the new snakes?


----------



## Parko (Nov 16, 2003)

OK Wattso I,m gonna give my 2 cents worth cause compared to most everyone on this site I know very little and am inexperienced but to my highly untrained eyes that white stuff on the scales looks like fungis.Dont you reckon?(Dont panic but cause I'm takin a wild stab)


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

:shock: christ I hope not! its very dry, wouldnt fungus be moist?


----------



## Parko (Nov 16, 2003)

Yeah I imagine so, is the humidity of your cage normal?


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

um, dunno whats normal, I dont have a humidity guage but i imagine its not excessive. enclosure is 5ft w x5fth x2.5 ftd water dish is cat litter tray [standatrd] which is on the floor [temp 22c] oppisite end to heat light. ventilation is probly too much, so would this be a prob [humidity wise]?


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 16, 2003)

> no worries,thanks anyway Africa, how goes the new snakes?



Good thanks mate, the male had a very bad shed when I picked them up but a wet rag and a bit of patience has him in tip top condition now  Bought a couple of those polypropylene enclosures for them yesterday and am quite impressed with those too  So all is good at the moment mate


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

Pleased to hear it mate. these polyprop enclosures, are they the all mesh ones? how do keep the warmth in and the cold out? what do you put on the bottom as substrate? i always imagined they were only be good for "sunning" herps?


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 16, 2003)

Nah mate, you are thinking of the Herpariums sold by the herp shop, (I bought 4 of those too  ). The ones I mean have solid sides but are made out of a polypropyline plastic, (I think). Herp shop sells them, but I don't think ships them, and they come without the glass. This is fine for me cos I have a few fish tanks to cut up for glass doors


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

oh! ok  i answered your file thread too.


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 16, 2003)

And I answered your answer, LOL


----------



## marc (Nov 16, 2003)

maybe it is left over skin from the last shedding


----------



## Fangs (Nov 16, 2003)

Is the trouble at the site of the previous injection?


----------



## Parko (Nov 16, 2003)

Wattso been lookin for info on scale fungus and apparently it can appear as a milky colour and is sometimes caused by enclosure being either damp or cold why dont you cover the ventilation a bit and dowse affected area with dettol for now (cant hurt can it?) doesnt sound like it'd be very humid in your enclosure but does sound like it may be fairly cool?


----------



## Parko (Nov 16, 2003)

are there any discharges from vent or mouth?


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

Fangs, yep the bit im worried about is where he waas injected in july,
Parko, the 22c i mentioned is on the floor of enclosure, this is the bottom of the range, top temp is 32c from about 2/3 the way up. Its definatly difficult to heat in winter thats for sure, will be cooling this coming winter.
Fangs could you see the vid?


----------



## Fangs (Nov 16, 2003)

no didnt look at the vid......if it is at the site of the injection its nothing to worry about.


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

sorry Parko missed your other one. No, no discharges at all, Im thinking maybe the humidity is too low? of heard of something called scalerot/dryrot? hope its not that.


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 16, 2003)

If it's dry rot ya walls will fall down


----------



## wattso (Nov 16, 2003)

sorry Marc, no dont think its shed mate, last one was clean also its not kind of on top, if ya get me.

why do they have probs with injection sites anyway??????


Crikey africa!


----------



## Hawkeye (Nov 16, 2003)

How many scales has he lost. OPMV starts out with scale loss. Have you been around other peoples snakes recently (last 3-6 months?).

Hawkeye


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

removed...........


----------



## Fangs (Nov 17, 2003)

Ophidian Paramyxovirus


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 17, 2003)

Isn't there an article on this site somewhere about opmv?


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

Holy cow batman! ophidian paramyxovirus???? :shock: what the hell is it????


----------



## Hawkeye (Nov 17, 2003)

Not good.....universally lethal so far to snakes.
Better read up on supportive measures.

Cheers Hawkeye


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

EDITED.............................................................................
I read the symptoms, dosent sound like it. I hope you guys were just yankin my chain.?????????????


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

could anyone who has actually looked at the vid on pg1 of this thread please offer suggestions re: scale anomaly if you have seen similar. much appreciated ~Dan 
p.s.
1. my vet is not experienced with reptiles, he was looking in a book!
2. $35 later he said he didnt know, poss reaction to worming injection,that I shoudnt worry, BUT...see1. !


----------



## Amy (Nov 17, 2003)

I have seen the vid (have broadband at work) I dont know what it is. Does the white stuff flake off? It could be a bacteria of some sort or maybe a mould? I will search around some sights and ask my vet what they think.


----------



## Amy (Nov 17, 2003)

Talk with anyone whose snake you have held in the past 3 - 6 omnths. You may have picked up something from someone's snake and past it to your own. Technically your snake doesn't have to have come in contact with another for it to get a disease/bug. You can carry it easily.

I would suggest that every time you touch your snake you wash your hands with an antibacterial wash. Otherwise evertime you touch him, your just giving him another dose and he'll never get over it. In fact, it'd give everything a good scrub and start him off in a nice clean cage. Even any branches/hides or anywhere he has been in your house. I know it seems like a lot but once he gets over this you want to reinfect him.


----------



## Amy (Nov 17, 2003)

Fungal Infections: A number of fungal organisms can cause superficial and deeper infections of snakes. Most of these infections involve the skin and respiratory system. Fungal infections of the eyes are most likely to occur in snakes housed in damp, contaminated environments. Ringworm fungi that usually infect people, pets and livestock have also caused skin infections of snakes. Snakes must be housed in scrupulously clean and dry enclosures. The flooring must be easy to clean and should not be of a material that encourages fungal (mold) growth (see section on Housing). A veterinarian must examine Snakes exhibiting problems with their skin and/or eyes as soon as possible. A microbial culture and a skin biopsy may be necessary to obtain a diagnosis. Treatment of fungal diseases involves use of topical and systemic (oral and/or injectable) antifungal agents. Prevention of fungal disease involves correcting underlying problems with husbandry. 

Ok basically this is what I have found that might or might not have something to do with what your Monty is going through


----------



## ackie (Nov 17, 2003)

wattso monty might be shedding as a result of his scale problem, sum snakes often do this to rid parasites and to help heal cuts and abrasions. I wouldnt panick if i were u. Mabey just experiment with the humidity or just wait till the shed is finished then examine him again.


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

Thanks Amy, i a[ppreciate your help. Only snakes or other herps ive been near in the last 6 months have been [EDITED] Im guessing his herps are fine. montys house IS kept very clean, substrate changed daily also water bowl, everything else branches, hides cage itself is sterilised every weekend. The whitish stuff/area dosnt flake. [btw] hes preshed right now] I always wash my hands After handling him, never thought to do it before handling. I will resterilise everything tho, it certainly wont hurt. I mayu be worried about nothing, it is the site of previous injection that worries me BUT the other few loose/peeling scales are in other places, may or may not be related. Either way ,Ill see what hes like after shed. poss hes initiated a shed because of this prob? i appreciate it! ~Dan


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

Sorry Ackie, you posted while i was answering Amy's. yeah i thought of that, Thanks mate :wink:


----------



## Hawkeye (Nov 17, 2003)

I'd still be concerned that its a systemic illness especially since areas away from the injection site are also flaking. I would suspect in order of suspicion:

1) Infection (viral/bacterial)
2) Toxicity (what are you sterilizing with)
3) Unstable environment re humidity/temp
4) Something from outside like pesticides/flyspray/fertilizer

Cheers Hawkeye


----------



## wattso (Nov 17, 2003)

Thanks Hawkeye, um...
1. possible/probable
2. not sure- using boiling water and bleach dash of standard disinfectant/
3. not sure what humidity should be/is, havent got gauge but dont think stability/temp is prob
4. very unlikly dont use any of those, could frshly mown grass be it? i.e. 2 stroke residue? dont remember having him on it just after mowing but, normaly after a week when its grown nice and soft.


----------



## Amy (Nov 18, 2003)

Maybe you should buy an animal friendly disinfectant this time round and see if it is an allergic reaction to what you use now? It might be as simple as he has had too much contact with the disinfectant? (would explain the smaller and more frequent sites on his body)

Also if he is pre shed, I would wait untill after he has shed and see if it clears up. Saying that, I'd keep a record (with dates) of what has happened so far and try to keep it going till after he has completly shed. Try to note anything different about Monty. This way you can find a vet who knows about retiles and get some advice over the phone (most vets are happy to help) and see where to go from there.

Hope all goes well, keep us informed.
Amy

P.s: Didn't mean to offend about the cage cleaning thing.


----------



## Nicole (Nov 18, 2003)

I have heard that white scale scarring at a baytril injection site is common...
Let us know what your vet says Wattso.


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

Amy, will do , no offence was taken  
Nicole, thats pretty much what the vet said, that it happens and not to worry. will see how he goes after shed and will change disinfecting solution. Anybody use steam cleaning on rep enclosures?, was thinkin of getting one of those steam thingys advertised on tv, any thoughts? :?


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

If ya gonna steam ya enclosures you better make sure all ya silicone joints are very good otherwise steam will enter them and the next thing you know they'll be falling apart !! Take care Wattso buddy!!


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

Thanx for the tip Africa, but my enclosure is timbre and glass! [snake enclosure that is] :wink: glass is all kept in place by timbre rail;s, no silicon.


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

I reckon you should still silicone the edges/joints as they can be a hiding place for mites should you be unlucky enough for ya herps to get them. I am now parabloodynoid about the little buggas!!!


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

I see what ya gettin at, not a bad idea mate, will do when i do turt tank, but will have to have something to put monty in till it sets/drys! only have one snake enclosure


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

If you were in Melbourne I could lend you one for a few days mate but your not so I can't so I don't know why I am bothering to type this LOL


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

RED WINE???????????????????????


----------



## Hawkeye (Nov 18, 2003)

African can also lend you some test mites too if you want :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 

Cheers Hawkeye


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

LOL ! he probly sprays all visitors with T.O.D at the front door!


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

Automatic TOD dispenser through the peep hole guys.......only way to go  The Pizza man gets a bit pissed though


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

LMAO! they got special instructions for your mail down at the postal center?


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

Yup mate, told 'em they can leave the Anthrax in but if I find a mite I'll sue their asses off , my postie wears a biological warfare suit, don't know why but he was muttering something about TOD allergies


----------



## wattso (Nov 18, 2003)

Seriously Africa, do ya know how ya got them? was it lax quarantine or what?


----------



## africancichlidau (Nov 18, 2003)

Yes mate, another one with the attitude it'll never happen to me, I'mm too careful!! It happened!! I bought a trio of blueys and had to put them indoors for a while while I sorted out their enclosure. Gave 'em a tank in the snake room, no quarantine and BINGO, mite city!! Everything now gets quarantined, needless to say  Well, nearly everything that is as I don't quarantine the meat the missus buys at the butchers but most of that gets frozen to kill the bacteria


----------



## Amy (Nov 19, 2003)

If you have no silicon (in the tank I mean) then I think steam might be a way to go. Depending, it may even kill mites. Thing is, those steam thingos can be quite bulky and depending on what you get, you have to put the whole machine into the enclosure to get into corners or whatever. Careful you dont get burnt. (I have several times. Never learn)


----------



## wattso (Nov 19, 2003)

you can get small hand held ones with hose/jet you put on your back, ive seen em on danoz direct. but ive seen similar at half the price at the warehouse. will defiatly try it out, steam will kill microbes so might be better than hours of soaking in bleach in the bath and scrubbing.


----------



## Fangs (Nov 19, 2003)

the cheap ones are crap.you need to get a gurney if you wanna do a real job


----------



## wattso (Nov 19, 2003)

details fangs, you inscrutable bugger, details! ??????????  what's a gurney?


----------



## Fangs (Nov 19, 2003)

www.gurney.com.au


----------



## wattso (Nov 19, 2003)

:| :roll:


----------



## Gregory (Nov 19, 2003)

Gee, thanks Dan for mentioning my name in your desperate attempt to clarify what's wrong with your snake. People will now be under the assumption that there's something wrong with my animals. Ya go and spread my name all over the thread and now that you think you know what it is wrong with your snake I don't even get a retraction or even an apology that my animals were questionable. A PM would have been more appropriate and not printing my name for all and sundry to see which will leave doubt in people's minds.
That'll be the last time I open up my house to you or anyone involved with Reptiles.


----------



## Fangs (Nov 19, 2003)

Awwwwwwwwwww crap Greg.Then I take it that the BBQ at your place this weekend is off?


----------



## Gregory (Nov 19, 2003)

Nah it's still on Mark but only for the cool crew.


----------



## Fangs (Nov 19, 2003)

Great mate should be an awsome day as they always are.


----------



## wattso (Nov 19, 2003)

>REMOVED&lt;


----------



## Gregory (Nov 19, 2003)

The point being, there was no need to name ANYONE in that thread. If you felt there was an issue it should have been raised a lot more privately than that. Just being named is implication enough. Rumours start with a lot less and can be very damaging to a person't reputation. It's human nature and you were guilty of starting a "rumour". 
I didn't PM you out of the same courtesy you showed me.


----------

