# Legless Lizards



## Xeaal (Dec 1, 2012)

Can anyone please point me in the right direction for information about keeping (and where to buy) legless lizards in Victoria? Thank you.


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## Monitors_R_Us (Dec 1, 2012)

1) Buy a blue tongue
2) Buy a butchers knife
3)....

Nah jokes I have no idea mate but I am sure a few people will be able to help you, just remember there are a a few different species of legless liz's.


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## Blake182 (Dec 1, 2012)

Get a snake they have no legs


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## Pilbarensis (Dec 1, 2012)

Down here in VIC we can keep 3 species of legless lizard; P. nigriceps, P. lepidopodus & Burtons. None of them are cheap or readily available. Burtons are very hard to keep due to their specialisation in eating lizards. The other two although relatively easy to keep are very rare and not really suited to a beginner reptile keeper. I'd say leave them to experience keepers and breeders until captive populations increase. If you really want to get into keeping them start off by keeping species of geckos with similar requirements.


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## Zanks (Dec 1, 2012)

An introduction to keeping and breeding Australian reptiles by Michael Swan and Damian Goodall.
This book has some info about flap-foots in it. You should be able to get it at the library if your a tite rrs like me!
I'd be keen to here if anyone is breeding the common scaly-foot.


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## Mulgaaustralis (Dec 1, 2012)

Those three species you mentioned are perfectly fine for the most retarded of keepers. Extremely easy to keep. 

To who ever wants them, read up about Levis levis. Eastern, western and northern scaly foots can be treated exactly the same. Common scaly foots are more dinurnal and I give them a spot light.


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## Xeaal (Dec 1, 2012)

I already have 3 snakes and planning on more, but everything I read about the legless lizards fascinates me. Have several books I am pouring through at the moment, but would just like a bit more knowledge - preferably from someone who has actually kept them - before I make any final decisions about keeping one. Kind of like to do all my research first lol - but this doesn't seem to be a subject there is an awful lot of information about. One thing I have heard is that they can be fed weeny little baby mice instead of skinks.. yes? no? As I said.. more knowledge required before decisions are made.


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## Mulgaaustralis (Dec 1, 2012)

Go read about scaly foots. Unless you're prepared to force feed pinkies to a Burtons leg less lizard don't bother reading about them.

Theres not a great deal out about scaly foots but they almost bullet proof.


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## bk201 (Dec 1, 2012)

You are getting ahead of yourself

I keep eastern hooded's and have got advice from a few other people
they eat crickets, mealworms and sometimes some fruit pieces
I also know of a few people who keep common scalys that feed them insects and fruit
Avoid burtons to you get some more experience keeping other scales


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 1, 2012)

I have seen the burtons before and if you get them as hatchlings you can bring them up on crickets and pinkies but it may be difficult at first because there diet is hardwired in as babies however it still can be changed as they are very remorseful and hardy. They also like a hot dry environment with dry grass and plenty of hiding spots. In the wild they have been known to live in termite and ant hills so try to put some artificial termite mounds and hills. Make sure the mounds have easy access for you otherwise you will never find them. They have very good hearing and are easily spooked they also don't like much handling (they are more for show).


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## butters (Dec 1, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I have seen the burtons before and if you get them as hatchlings you can bring them up on crickets and pinkies but it may be difficult at first because there diet is hardwired in as babies however it still can be changed as they are very remorseful and hardy. They also like a hot dry environment with dry grass and plenty of hiding spots. In the wild they have been known to live in termite and ant hills so try to put some artificial termite mounds and hills. Make sure the mounds have easy access for you otherwise you will never find them. They have very good hearing and are easily spooked they also don't like much handling (they are more for show).




Kudos for trying to help but seriously??? You have seen them and so are giving advice?

Burtons will not eat crickets and if you try to keep them on crickets it will be you that is remorseful....not the Burton's. They will be dead.


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## spongebob (Dec 1, 2012)

Pygopus schraderi and Pygopus nigroceps - the eastern and western hooded scalefoots/feet are the commonest breed in captivity and available n licence in Victoria. They can be kept as a knob tailed gecko and feed on crickets and woodies. There are a growing number of people keeping them. Danny Brown has included them in his recent husbandry guide alongside geckos.

Burtons are specialised lizard feeders best suited to the more experienced keeper.


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## butters (Dec 1, 2012)

Burtons themselves are ridiculously easy to keep if you can legally fed them skinks or geckos. In Queensland you can do this legally but in other states keeping them can be problematic and usually involves some form of force feeding. Hence why sponge bob said for experienced people only.

Mine happily eat Asian house geckos which are in abundance here in Brisbane and are a feral pest.

The scaly foot group are easy to keep if you can find them as various insects and fruit are their preferred diet and housing is simple for the nocturnal species. Just treat them like a terrestrial gecko as stated by someone earlier.


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## Pilbarensis (Dec 1, 2012)

@ spongebob - P. schraderi - the species most commonly available in captivity is actually not available here in VIC, I'm working on the situation though. If they were available here then I'd say that people should definitely go for them.


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## Rocket (Dec 1, 2012)

_Pygopus schraderi_ can be kept in Victoria. When the species was added to the list (whenever it was), _P. schraderi_ was recognised as a subspecies of _P. nigriceps_ and can therefore be listed as _P. nigriceps schraderi_.


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## cheekabee (Dec 1, 2012)

Here's some legless lizards I found in Melbourne. But I dont think you can keep these guys in captivity though. 
I hope this helps.


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## richoman_3 (Dec 1, 2012)

we can keep delma inornata


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## cheekabee (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah you can keep the common delma


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## Pilbarensis (Dec 1, 2012)

Damn, thanks for letting me know.


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## Xeaal (Dec 2, 2012)

Thank you so much - those pics are great!!! When you say you found them in Melbourne.. do you mean 50km away from the nearest bird-poo, outback Victoria or do you really mean "Melbourne"?


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## richoman_3 (Dec 2, 2012)

as melbourne as melbourne you want !




Striped Legless Lizard (Delma impar) by Richoman_herps, on Flickr



Striped Legless Lizard (Delma impar) by Richoman_herps, on Flickr


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## Xeaal (Dec 2, 2012)

God.. they are so beautiful!! May I ask where they were found please? I never see anything "out in the wild" - not even snakes! I think I need lessons in where to look and exactly what to look for. Thank you


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## richoman_3 (Dec 2, 2012)

these guys are secret sorry!!!

just get out to any national parks, i recommend the you yangs to people alot. find HEAPS of brown snakes, skinks and jacky dragons there


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## Xeaal (Dec 2, 2012)

Ok.. so out West then lol. I am in the East (semi rural) and people are always saying they see snakes and frogs and god-knows-what.. but in 30 years of riding horses through all sorts of bush country, I can only remember 2 snakes, years ago, one dead frog (in my horse trough) and the usual tiny grey skinks. Foxes, rabbits, echidnas, possums, hawks, cockys, kangaroos, wallabies - everything else in crazy abundance.. but never really any reptiles.


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## richoman_3 (Dec 2, 2012)

on a warm day in the you yangs you can easily whip up 5-10 species of reptile, along with a couple of frogs if youre lucky


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## cheekabee (Dec 3, 2012)

You wanna know where I found them hey. PM sent. lol jokes. Top secret as richo said. Yes there are herps around melbourne you just have to look, it doesn't nessarily have to be a warm day depending on the herps you want find, heres my flickr acount I dont have as much photos as Richoman but all the herps were found pretty much in melbourne, just to give you an idea of the amount of herps you can find around melbourne Flickr: Akash's herps Melbourne's Photostream . Sorry I cant give you locations


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## Xeaal (Dec 3, 2012)

Oh these photos are great!! Thanks so much for showing me. The Banjo Frog is rather wonderful; what a happy little face he has lol. I am planning a trip to Little Desert within the next few months, as I have a house up in that region. I figure til the house sells, I may as well use it as a base for learning about herping studies, whenever I can get the chance to get up there. Last Summer when we were up there, we did find a dear little Gecko in the house, which my boyfriend took outside and released on a gumtree. We got some photos of it, but I have no idea what sort of gecko it was. Kind of grey speckled with an orange stripe along it's tail.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 4, 2012)

What are you talking about butters I've seen them eat crickets and pinkies before not in the wild but I have seen them do it in captivity. by the way I'm am serious and I'm starting to get sick of other uses dissing my threads and comments on this site don't forget just because I'm 13 doesn't mean I know nothing about reptiles I've keeping them and reading about them for 7 whole years.


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## butters (Dec 4, 2012)

I would love to know of anybody who has kept a Burton's alive on crickets. Burton's have a very specialized diet.

I keep a fair few Pygopods, Burton's included, and have bred a number of species so do have some experience.

If you are talking about other Pygopods other than Burton's you are correct but your post seemed to be referring to Burton's. They will not live on crickets. Many in southern states keep them alive on pinkies but it is rarely voluntarily. Nearly always involves some form of force feeding.

The fact that you are 13 has nothing to do with it.

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If you were thirty I would have posted the same thing.

Good on you for reading about them and keeping them and hopefully with time you will keep learning about them just like we all do. One of the things you will learn is that a lot of the stuff you find on the net is crap or taken out of context.

Where did you see them eating crickets and pinkies if I may ask? If you saw one eating a pinkie on another site recently then it is most likely a picture I posted. If you read the thread you will see that I don't feed them pinkies but thought I would try one as someone had asked me to. Sure it grabbed the pinkie but in the end didn't eat it.

I manage to breed Burton's on a regular basis and the only reason I believe this happens is because I provide them with an almost natural diet. Asian house geckos aren't really a natural food source but they are still a lizards part of a Burton's natural diet.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 4, 2012)

Not just on crickets but I'm just saying they will sometimes eat live crickets in small amounts and only in captivity. A friend of mine has a one year old male that takes one or two when food is scarce try it on yours. Sorry I can't upload photos of him doing it because he is not my reptile. My rule is only upload photos of my reptiles or reptile I have had in the past.


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## butters (Dec 4, 2012)

I could put as many crickets as I wanted in with them and they still wouldn't eat them. I hand feed my Burton's so I have no doubt I could get mine to grab one but I doubt they would eat it. I have however gotten them to eat thin strips of chicken breast about the size and general shape of a garden skink.
Just like with snakes though it would be ill advised to attempt to maintain them on this diet.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 4, 2012)

Feeding them chicken now that I have not here'd of and I have here'd a lot of story's about burtons. By the way I have not seen one for sale for a long time do you know any thing butters you know where I can get another couple of them cheap in VIC ,NSW or SA?


I have not owned them but I have been shown how to take care of them at expos plus I have handled them many times before and they were very skittish. I have not seen my friend for a few years now.


sorry about my spelling guys


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## butters (Dec 4, 2012)

No sorry. They do pop up from time to time.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 4, 2012)

When I get mine I will try the chicken type diet of yours it sounds different but I'm willing to try other people's ideas on reptiles.


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## Stuart (Dec 4, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> When I get mine I will try the chicken type diet of yours it sounds different but I'm willing to try other people's ideas on reptiles.



Just remember. As said, its not a staple diet, its a once in a while diet. They will still need a more natural diet to thrive


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 4, 2012)

Yep I mean its not very fair on the reptile to change the diet that their used to and constantly force fed and stressed out every time they get fed.


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## jairusthevirus21 (Dec 4, 2012)




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## butters (Dec 4, 2012)

I was feeding chicken strips to a gts for variety and the Burton's were there so.......what the hell give it a go.

I don't feed it to them as a general rule.


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## Chanzey (Dec 4, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Not just on crickets but I'm just saying they will sometimes eat live crickets in small amounts and only in captivity. A friend of mine has a one year old male that takes one or two when food is scarce try it on yours. Sorry I can't upload photos of him doing it because he is not my reptile. My rule is only upload photos of my reptiles or reptile I have had in the past.



How old is this rule?8)


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

Not that old I decided to make this rule after I got into some trouble someone thought I tried to steal their photo and I still sometimes forget my own rules like a day Argo I put a photo up of a gecko on this site and some people weren't to happy about that so now I only put my photos of my reptiles on anything unless I have permission even then I most likely won't put the photo up.

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Hey by the way nice pic it's a little bleary but still who cares.


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## eipper (Dec 5, 2012)

Reptiles 4 me ... I call bull faecal matter to your mates Burton's eat crickets. Post a photo or get permission from your mate and then post one I am sure he/she won't mind


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

Your in title to your opioun besides that I don't have a photo to show you and I don't know if he still even has it like I said I haven't seen or here'd anything from him for a few years now for all I know the burtons could be dead by now. Have a look on the web I'm sure I've seen a couple of websites that agree with me and be leave that it is possible. google search burtons legless lizard eats a cricket or something like that.


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## butters (Dec 5, 2012)

See I was being nice. Point is still the same. Burton's don't eat crickets.

And I did a search. Nothing on eating crickets, plenty on them not eating crickets.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok maybe my mates burtons was a one of thing or something I don't know but still I have seen him do it at least once in the past. Ow and I never said that you weren't being nice a little strong with your opioun but I don't mind your just backing up what you believe.

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Hey butters you said you breed them you know the burtons I'm from VIC and your from QLD any chase of me getting one of you?


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## eipper (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok reptiles are you saying you have seen it with your own eyes or not.... If you have are you sure it was a Burton's


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

Pretty sure about 95% sure it was burtons I'm normally not wrong when it comes to ID of reptiles


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## Stuart (Dec 5, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Pretty sure about 95% sure it was burtons I'm normally not wrong when it comes to ID of reptiles



The last person who said they were 95% sure of a reptile ID confused Cobras with Black Headed pythons. 

In the world of reptiles and their variations, a 5% uncertainty rate can be a big change so its always best to be a 100% sure.


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## eipper (Dec 5, 2012)

I reckon that it was not a Burton's and I was not there and I am very rarely wrong on Id's


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

I reckon it was and how on earth do you get confused with a black headed python and a cobra. if 5% is to big a gap for you than I was 99% sure it was burtons and not a scaly foot of some kind. Eipper were you just trying to troll me then.


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## eipper (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok reptiles 4 me I will try to make it as blunt as possible 

Your name isn't Norman is it?

you are either....
a 
lying about what you have seen or 

b 
you cannot tell the difference between a Burton's and another legless lizard.

I am not trolling as you put it.... just calling you on what you are saying without qualification. The onus of proof is on you to show that everyone who has worked with lialis are wrong.

Alternately, who is your mate and get them to tell us the details 

cheers

Scott Eipper


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

Like I said there is a small chance that I am wrong but normally I'm not wrong and I'm not saying I'm right all the time because that would make me a know it all Whitch is inpossible to know every thing my mate has had other legless lizards and I have not seen him for few years so it is a possible that I got confused or something. So maybe I'm wrong and your right maybe not let's leave it that agree or not.


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## Wally (Dec 5, 2012)

^^ I'm gonna try this one on next time I'm home a bit late from the pub..... see if I cant get everyone confused.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 5, 2012)

I don't know exactly what you mean Wally76 but it sounds funny from where I'm sitting.


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## geckodan (Dec 5, 2012)

Lialis jicari from New Guinea has been recorded eating insects - This is not however a Burton's from Australia which are an obligate lizard feeder in the wild and will require the same in captivity with the occasional specimen able to be weaned onto mice.


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## eipper (Dec 5, 2012)

Reptiles4me,

I did not realize your age. Sorry for being rude. I have a low tolerance for bull.... And basically that's what was being said by you, mistaken or otherwise.

cheers
Scott


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## Rocket (Dec 5, 2012)

This thread has been a great source of humour and delight.

eipper, did I tell you I have my Moloch feeding on steaks, cooked rare...


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## butters (Dec 5, 2012)

I am sure most of us have no doubt you thought you saw a Burton's eating crickets. No one is disputing that you believe that.

What we are all disputing is the fact that it was actually a Burton's and not another species of legless lizard.

Many experienced keepers ( and probably more inexperienced ones) have tried to wean Burton's onto a non lizard diet. The majority have failed miserably and the loser is always the Burton's. The successes I would only call partial successes. Sure they have kept them alive but in most cases that's it and there is still generally force feeding involved. I class placing something in their mouth so they will eat it force feeding.

What most of us don't want is somebody seeing this thread in the future and thinking tthat Burton's eat crickets. They don't.

Because most of my Burton's I have bred myself I am in a bit of a unique position because I hand feed them all from hatching. They still live on a diet of skinks and geckos but they are more likely to take something I offer them that is not a lizard. If I wave it in front of their face they will usually grab it.

Doesnt mean they will eat it consistently though.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok I asked this before but you did not answer me since you breed them is their any chance of me getting a burtons off you because I really want one and I have only seen them for sale at an expo and that is the only time I have ever seen them for sale before also do I need an advanced licence to have them?


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## Stuart (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Ok I asked this before but you did not answer me since you breed them is their any chance of me getting a burtons off you because I really want one and I have only seen them for sale at an expo and that is the only time I have ever seen them for sale before also do I need an advanced licence to have them?



Considering you have been told before, here is the link to the VIC DSE. You should be able to find out all you need about licensing and keeping before asking to buy one. 

Keeping and Trading Wildlife in Victoria

As mentioned on several of your threads, its best to do a little research before running off to get something and while I can only speculate, I doubt that you have 7 years of reptile exprience from books or practical experience if you still have questions regarding licenses. Being 13 and interested in reptiles as well as doing research is an admirable trait, but dont fall into the habit of knowing it all as there are folks out there with more years of experience than you have been on earth and they admit to learning new things regularly.

Its only advice, take it or leave it, I cant tell you that you are wrong for what you are thinking, just that there is a better way to go about it.


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## thomasssss (Dec 6, 2012)

reptiles4me
please , for your own good , STOP saying you have 7 years experience , you have 7 years of being interested in reptiles , that does not equate to experience 

if we where all to use the point in which we got interested in reptiles as the point of which our experience started than 99% of us would have experience dating back to when we where kids , but in reality that isnt the case , just because my dad had a coastal when i was a kid doesn't mean ive got experience from when i was 2 


also if your 95% positive on reptile ids and rarely get it wrong than why is it that you couldn't id a cat snake as a non native , first thing i started to look into when i wanted to sharpen up my id skills was to find out what species i would encounter in australia , that doesn't seem to be the case with you so saying your rarely wrong is laughable


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## Beautyreptiles (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Ok I asked this before but you did not answer me since you breed them is their any chance of me getting a burtons off you because I really want one and I have only seen them for sale at an expo and that is the only time I have ever seen them for sale before also do I need an advanced licence to have them?



Dont take this wrong way but from reading your posts you really dont sound ready to keep a burtons. I suggest more research into the species and also other species which have similar dietary needs. It would also benefit you if you were to befriend some burtons keepers and learn from them by asking questions, if your lucky you might have someone who lives close to you willing to let you come around and learn that way also but dont get your hopes up.


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## Xeaal (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok - that does it!!! The next time I want to know about a species I am never, ever, ever going to start a thread asking about it! I got some very sensible answers from intelligent people who pm'd me, gave me good advice and sent me in the right direction to continue my research. Everyone else has taken this thread and ran around with it like chooks with their heads cut off. Enough already. Go to bed. Now.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok so I need a basic licence witch I have but I still don't know where I can buy one anyone know any breeders?

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Don't stop stating threads its just with this one we got caught up in each others opiuon and got a little bit of topic next time I'm sure this want happen.


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## butters (Dec 6, 2012)

Xeaal said:


> Ok - that does it!!! The next time I want to know about a species I am never, ever, ever going to start a thread asking about it! I got some very sensible answers from intelligent people who pm'd me, gave me good advice and sent me in the right direction to continue my research. Everyone else has taken this thread and ran around with it like chooks with their heads cut off. Enough already. Go to bed. Now.



So aside from all of the other rubbish you got the information you wanted?
Seems like in the end you got the result you wanted so I would call it a successful thread.

Hopefully reptiles4me has learnt something too but time will tell and I have my doubts. Sorry reptiles4me I won't sell you one until you have more REAL experience. 

I like my animals too much.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Well people do say that they are difficult to keep but I believe I can manage to look after and/or breed them.

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If you don't want to sell me a burtons then I don't mind but when you claim that my experience is not real than its stats to annoy me. So do you know any other breeders that might be a little bit more willing then you not that I have any negertive thoughts or anything like that about you of course because you have been really helpful at times.


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## Rocket (Dec 6, 2012)

I am also a keeper of _Lialis burtonis_ and understand the difficulties in keeping them.

Reptiles4me, I think you need to slow it right down and take your time. Stop rushing yourself - you're not an expert in these matters. I'm sorry but I'm with butters and would not offload some of my animals, especially pygopodids, to you. You need more experience and knowledge - both theoretical and practical.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

So legless lizards aren't lizards that got drunk? Total mind blow!!!


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

I know that me claiming to have 7+ years experience sounds like a bit of a lie at my age but its not a lie.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Your (You're) in title (entitled) to your opioun (opinion) besides that I don't have a photo to show you and I don't know if he still even has it like I said I haven't seen or here'd (heard) anything from him for a few years now for all I know the burtons could be dead by now. Have a look on the web I'm sure I've seen a couple of websites that agree with me and be leave (believe) that it is possible. google search burtons legless lizard eats a cricket or something like that.



Didn't even bother with the punctuation and grammar! For me, kids lose all credibility about their education in reading up on reptiles when it appears they haven't read much on any subject in their short lives....


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## butters (Dec 6, 2012)

Sames again reptiles4me it wouldn't matter if you were 30. In the southern states the keeping of these is problematic. If you had experience feeding tricky small elapids or clutches of hatchling small pythons it would be a good learning experience for force feeding Burton's. Which is what you would have to do if you kept them where you are.

If you had that experience I would consider it no matter your age. We all started somewhere but Burton's are not a good starter and I think you would be better off getting experience with another species first.

Other Pygopods such as hooded and common scaly foots are a piece of cake to keep if you can find them.


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## thomasssss (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I know that me claiming to have 7+ years experience sounds like a bit of a lie at my age but its not a lie.


its not that mate we don't think your lying at all 

what it is is that at such a young age 7 years "experience" isn't exactly "7 years experience" if you get what i mean , its more like 7 years of interest , you will understand what we all mean in a few years time and you have really started to delve into the hobby , as has been made very very clear by your many posts that you haven't delved that deep into it at all , you've still only scraped the surface so using the term 7 years experience is a little silly , thats why people have pulled you up on it , some people here may only have 5 years under their belt but have gotten so invested in the hobby they've bred all sort of animals and have faced some of the more challenging tasks the hobby can throw at them 

as others have said we commend you for your interests but please for your own good stop saying you have 7 years experience , as that isn't the case


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

7 years experience and he doesn't even know what license he needs? I call bull fecal matter (as scott would say  )


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I know that me claiming to have 7+ years experience sounds like a bit of a lie at my age but its not a lie.



its like me claiming that my 4 yr old has 3 yrs experience with snakes. Yes she's held, fed, cleaned them out etc over the last 3 years but she doesn't mean she could look after one without major supervision and help... IMO you are only just making your own experiences now.


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## thomasssss (Dec 6, 2012)

Snowman said:


> 7 years experience and he doesn't even know what license he needs? I call bull fecal matter (as scott would say  )


i dont call bull i just think its a kid classing his very first pet lizard as the day his experience started , it sort of is but really it isnt when you compare it to someone who has been in the hobby only for a short time but has invested alot of their time learning about them , instead of what a kid would naturally do and enjoy the lizard , meet its needs but not really learn to much more about them like diseases and other challenges presented to hobbyists

sezzzzz has said it perfectly above me , its also a bit like me saying i have 15 years plus experience because my dad had a coastal when i was a kid , but really ive only got just over a years experience as thats how long ive really been interested in them and had to look after them entirely on my own


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

I only asked about the licence thing because I was not 100% sure.

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The "7 years" is not "7 years" interest because during that time I was keeping reptiles as well as trying new things like habitats and diets for my reptiles. I also looked at reptile behaviour in some small species.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I only asked about the licence thing because I was not 100% sure.



an EXPERIENCED person would be.



Reptiles4me said:


> The "7 years" is not "7 years" interest because during that time I was keeping reptiles as well as trying new things like habitats and diets for my reptiles. I also looked at reptile behaviour in some small species.



my daughter tried to feed the snakes banana and milk, shes tried new things with their diets! Shes a child genius and an experienced herper!!!! i'll ask her for advice from now on :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


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## SamNabz (Dec 6, 2012)

Mate, you really are persistent aren't you..? There have been quite a few responses in this thread from many experienced keepers that make your "7 years" experience look like 3 days of owning a bluey...

I don't mean to offend/attack, but just take in what others have said and continue your learning process. Don't try and correct experienced keepers' on a subject/species you, personally, know nothing about.

I could go tell a friend of mine tomorrow that my pythons eat salads weekly, he can then relay that to a bunch of other people that believe it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true now does it?

In my opinion, it is your persistence in claiming you're right (when you're definitely not in this situation) that would stop any *responsible* _burtonis_ keeper from selling one to you. By continuing to tell them "I'm right, you're wrong" it shows your inability to take in advice and learn something new to you. So why would anyone want to sell you a specialist species after that? I know I wouldn't in fear that you won't correctly look after it by ignoring proper advice...

Also, if you want to continue with this debate/discussion, stop mentioning your age. It doesn't matter how old you or anyone else is. If you're right about something, you're right, if not, you're wrong - simple as that.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

When I was 5 the girl next door was my girlfriend. We used to play house in the cubby, had a doll as a baby... By the above logic I had two years experience of being a father and partner by the time I turned 7.


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## thomasssss (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I only asked about the licence thing because I was not 100% sure.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> The "7 years" is not "7 years" interest because during that time I was keeping reptiles as well as trying new things like habitats and diets for my reptiles. I also looked at reptile behaviour in some small species.


:facepalm::facepalm: ok kid , we've said all there is to say , if your still adamant that your "7 years " is of experience and not more of a 7years of liking reps than thats great , people of aps , please lets just let this kid believe his great , just pull him up on his bad advice as his sure to preach when he does it 

i ask you to look over this thread on your 21st birthday , it will make alot more sense than


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## Umbral (Dec 6, 2012)

Red-Ink I found this race please o' please may I join in with the other kids? Ronny gets too play and he's really good at it he's been watching the Melbourne cup for 5 years and now his mum is going to let him because he's an expert!


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## Red-Ink (Dec 6, 2012)

SamNabz said:


> I could go tell a friend of mine tomorrow that my pythons eat salads weekly, he can then relay that to a bunch of other people that believe it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true now does it?



You haven't met my friend the blueman....

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/vegan-snake-196115/#post2275961


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## RedFox (Dec 6, 2012)

Same horse different thread. IMO experience starts when you are solely responsible for a pet. I would nor be giving out advice on something I have no idea about. I saw my friend breed some of her pythons, doesn't mean I could give advice based on what I saw.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

I have kept lots of lizards but never any snakes so I don't know much about them and I know I'm not always right so if you were to bring up snakes in a thread although I have read lots about them I could not debate about anything to do with experience because I have no actual experience with snakes so I don't believe I could say anything to the banana milk thing. I do take advice from others as I go. I say the only way to know someone is to meet them in person but I can't do that with anyone on this site so please don't judge me as I have not judged any of you. All the pets I have at the moment I'm responsible for if you were wondering.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I have kept lots of lizards but never any snakes so I don't know much about them and I know I'm not always right so if you were to bring up snakes in a thread although I have read lots about them I could not debate about anything to do with experience because I have no actual experience with snakes so I don't believe I could say anything to the banana milk thing. I do take advice from others as I go. I say the only way to know someone is to meet them in person but I can't do that with anyone on this site so please don't judge me as I have not judged any of you. All the pets I have at the moment I'm responsible for if you were wondering.



It's obvious you know nothing about lizards too > http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/geckos-196129/

- - - Updated - - -

Can't imagine how much experience this kid will have by the time he is 7!


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't think I'm great intact I know that if you were to compare me with some really experienced rep keepers than I would probably look like a tosser or a spoilt brat.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I don't think I'm great intact I know that if you were to compare me with some really experienced rep keepers than I would probably look like a tosser or a spoilt brat.



Actually it looks that way without the comparison


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I have kept lots of lizards but never any snakes so I don't know much about them and I know I'm not always right so if you were to bring up snakes in a thread although I have read lots about them I could not debate about anything to do with experience because I have no actual experience with snakes so I don't believe I could say anything to the banana milk thing. I do take advice from others as I go. I say the only way to know someone is to meet them in person but I can't do that with anyone on this site so please don't judge me as I have not judged any of you. All the pets I have at the moment I'm responsible for if you were wondering.




UTTERLY SPEECHLESS!!! and thats probably a really good thing for you reptiles4me.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

My advise is contact the mods and start over with a new name and account... And when you start fresh, forget about the 7 years experience and just listen and learn...


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

.....


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey now I know a lot about lizards and if that was comment was to do with the burtons I hope you realise that I have not kept them before or any legless lizards and did say I was not 100% on if I actually did see mine friends eat that cricket.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

What lizards do you keep?


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm 100% sure that a lot you are more experienced then me so I not saying I'm better then any of you.


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## emmalene_bunny (Dec 6, 2012)

Can someone please just give this kid a happy meal and a rubber snake, maybe he will just pipe down a while and stop being argumentative, he's obviously not going to give up on the "valid" points he has to make.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

At the moment I have a mertens water monitor ,bearded dragon ,blue tongue ,marbled velvet gecko ,southern spotted velvet gecko ,marbled gecko ,garden skinks and some other small species. I have had others in the past. Next I want to get a ridge tail monitor or two next but before that I want my first snake.


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## SamNabz (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I don't think I'm great intact I know that if you were to compare me with some really experienced rep keepers than I would probably look like a tosser or a spoilt brat.



This is exactly what has happened in this thread... You admit to not having owned any Burton's (or any _Pygopodid_), yet you have still argued with people who have a greater knowledge on this family than you do. Most of whom have either kept or currently keep them, and have done so for years. Yet you insist on going off some 'mystery' friend hearsay..?



Reptiles4me said:


> Hey now I know a lot about lizards and if that was comment was to do with the burtons I hope you realise that I have not kept them before or any legless lizards and did say I was not 100% on if I actually did see mine friends eat that cricket.



If that were the case, and you were truly eager/happy to learn, this thread would have finished at page #2.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> I'm 100% sure that a lot you are more experienced then me so I not saying I'm better then any of you.



Can you please answer snowmans question??


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## RedFox (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Hey now I know a lot about lizards and if that was comment was to do with the burtons I hope you realise that I have not kept them before or any legless lizards and did say I was not 100% on if I actually did see mine friends eat that cricket.



You must be a talented gymnast. I wish I could backflip like you.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> At the moment I have a mertens water monitor ,bearded dragon ,blue tongue ,marbled velvet gecko ,southern spotted velvet gecko ,marbled gecko ,garden skinks and some other small species. I have had others in the past. Next I want to get a ridge tail monitor or two next but before that I want my first snake.


Cool. Lets end this right now. 
You have 12 hours from the time shown on this post to take a photo of each. I want you to be doing the peace sign with two fingers next to each animal. If you can't do this you are indeed full of shizz and have zero experience and full of lies.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok I will take hat SamNabz and sezzzzzzzzz I just did.


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## Wally (Dec 6, 2012)

Does anyone know what happens when you take away one side of the fire triangle?


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## Monitors_R_Us (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> At the moment I have a mertens water monitor ,bearded dragon ,blue tongue ,marbled velvet gecko ,southern spotted velvet gecko ,marbled gecko ,garden skinks and some other small species. I have had others in the past. Next I want to get a ridge tail monitor or two next but before that I want my first snake.


 I hope that this is a lie for the animals sakes... When I was 13 I had only been keeping a few Pygmy bearded dragon for a year or so. I very much highly doubt you have a Mertens Water monitor and if you somehow do that it has the right conditions for living or that you are managing it all by yourself.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Dec 6, 2012)

Wally76 said:


> Does anyone know what happens when you take away one side of the fire triangle?



the fire goes out? lol, point taken removing myself from this as my head is sore from banging it on the wall anyway.


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## Umbral (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm over it, the horse fell apart and is no fun anymore.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

View attachment 273002
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## Rocket (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Hey now *I know a lot about lizards* and if that was comment was to do with the burtons I hope you realise that I have not kept them before or any legless lizards and did say I was not 100% on if I actually did see mine friends eat that cricket.



Hahahaha! That is the funniest thing I have ever read!


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

View attachment 273008
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I also thought you might like to see some of my enclosures and books as well


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Attachments didn't work. You've given over 8 species to see photos of....


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

View attachment 273018


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Nice work. Can't see the monitor. But who ever bought those should have enough idea to get into legless lizards.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

What don't forget at the end of my comment the ridge tail and that we're for my wish list and the attachments should of worked.


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## Snowman (Dec 6, 2012)

Either way you've shown you have a nice collection at home. That's very cool. 
Now you just have to work on your communication skills so you don't get so many negative responses from people.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok thanks. I should do a video of my reptiles and put it on YouTube

- - - Updated - - -

I bought most of them but 2 were presents.


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## Gonemad (Dec 6, 2012)

My books are covered in contact and have a shelf of there own, but still well worn!
Reptiles4me how do you keep your books in good nick!


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## Darlyn (Dec 6, 2012)

Belly laughed when I saw the pics with the fingers.


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

those fingers looked photoshopped in .....


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## jairusthevirus21 (Dec 6, 2012)

Rocket said:


> This thread has been a great source of humour and delight.
> 
> eipper, did I tell you I have my Moloch feeding on steaks, cooked rare...




MMEEEE! TOO!!! should i post pics...???


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## MonitorMayhem (Dec 6, 2012)

persistent


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

The fingers are not photoshopped I just have a really bad camera and my books are kept on a shelf and are hard covered but some of my books (that are not on reptiles) are nearly 50 years old are not in such good condition.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to see some of your pics.:lol:


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> The fingers are not photoshopped I just have a really bad camera and my books are kept on a shelf and are hard covered but some of my books (that are not on reptiles) are nearly 50 years old are not in such good condition.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I would like to see some of your pics.:lol:




good enough?




Urodacus yaschenkoi by richoman_3, on Flickr



Tiger Snake (Notechis scutatus) by Richoman_herps, on Flickr



Burton's Legless Lizard (Lialis burtonis) by Richoman_herps, on Flickr



Shingleback (Tiliqua rugosa) by Richoman_herps, on Flickr


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## Stevo2 (Dec 6, 2012)

richoman_3 said:


> good enough?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Crap! Nary a finger to be seen.. Shame on you


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

look harder  !!


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Nice pic of the tiger and the burtons but I don't know if they are all yours well at least that's the case with the scorpion.


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

theyre all mine....


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 6, 2012)

Ok I believe you


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

life complete <3
im gonna put a whole lot of invert shots up on here soon


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## thomasssss (Dec 6, 2012)

richoman_3 said:


> life complete <3
> im gonna put a whole lot of invert shots up on here soon


bummer , i hate having to tilt my head to look at those invert shots , is it that hard to get them the right way up

- - - Updated - - -



richoman_3 said:


> life complete <3
> im gonna put a whole lot of invert shots up on here soon


bummer , i hate having to tilt my head to look at those invert shots , is it that hard to get them the right way up


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## eipper (Dec 6, 2012)

bull dust Richoman 3 you stole them from Nick Volpe from Flickr....


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## richoman_3 (Dec 6, 2012)

Do not mention that name in public!
He will kill me!


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## eipper (Dec 6, 2012)

No worries richo I won't tell as long as you don't that Scott bloke I pinched his shots


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## Jason.s (Dec 7, 2012)

This is one of the best threads i've seen on here that hasn't been deleted.
Reptiles4me you want to get some Australian Reptile books to read they have more info then the ones you are showing, they have no info on keeping Australian reptiles, and you want to listen to some of the people on here they really now what there talking about.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

The books that I showed you are not on keeping reptiles. They both have a mixture of native and nonnative reptiles and the small one is more of a guide and the big one is one gose through the basics+ on snakes ,crocodilians and lizards. I have read some books on australian reptiles and I am going to buy some books on keeping australian reptiles in captivity.

- - - Updated - - -

I know they know what they are talking about and I do listen I just need ,as snowman said, to work on my communication skills.


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## Gonemad (Dec 7, 2012)

Reptiles4me so many people make the mistake of knowing to much and not listening! There are great people here with breeding knowledge that doesnt get there experiences by years but rather by results!
I know I read my books til the glue gives way but I still have so many questions and a lot have been answered for me hands on experience is the key but learn about what you have before moving on as it animals suffer by our mistakes.
I agree that owning reptiles are great but the best and utmos important part is learn and as I tell my daughter always listen never brag as you may just learn something that you will need later on. 
Im not bragging just explain my personal opinion I have breed geckos for along time and I wouldn't be keeping or breeding legless lizards as I will leave that up to people that have more knowledge to get numbers up.
A lot understand what the age of 13 was ( sad was along time ago) and how frustrating that no one treats you like an adult but you have to earn this by changing your communication and thinking of you questions before posting will help you. Happy herping and the best of luck


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks hey by the way do you have any tips on breeding marbled velvet geckos or any geckos for that matter?


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## Red-Ink (Dec 7, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> Thanks hey by the way do you have any tips on breeding marbled velvet geckos or any geckos for that matter?



Male and female + Keeping Australian Geckos in Captivity by Rob Porter.


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## Stevo2 (Dec 7, 2012)

Reptiles4me said:


> The books that I showed you are not on keeping reptiles. They both have a mixture of native and nonnative reptiles and the small one is more of a guide and the big one is one gose through the basics+ on snakes ,crocodilians and lizards. I have read some books on australian reptiles and I am going to buy some books on keeping australian reptiles in captivity.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I know they know what they are talking about and I do listen I just need ,as snowman said, to work on my communication skills.



Some help on your communication skills  Your above post is a GREAT example of comments that aren't necessary - There's no need for you to make a spiel about the books, or defend them; they're just books and don't care. Simply take the advice on the chin and no comment was needed, or perhaps you could have said "Thanks, I'm looking forward to getting some additional books on Aus reptiles in captivity - what do you think of these titles? book a, book b, book c, etc (showing that you've taken the advice, considered it, researched it and validated the information provided looking for positive feedback)." or words to that effect.

I remember all the way back when I was about your age also wanting some legless lizards - they were more available back then (wild caught, no doubt, in hindsight). Thankfully, for the lizards, it did not eventuate... I have NO DOUBT now that I would have killed them...


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

Ok I just thought that Jason.s might like to know that's all sorry if I sounded like I didn't listen to him.


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## Gonemad (Dec 7, 2012)

I love the books 
1. keeping Australian geckos by Rob Porter 
2. An introduction to keeping and breeding Australian reptiles by Mick Swan & Damian Goodall
I would recommend that you ask for these books for Xmas
I never went into Marbles, In saying that my setup consists of natural bark I will be cursed but I have calcium sand I change every six months on the ground. I change my feeds eg fed dusted gut loaded crickets, Woodies, meal worms and also catch blowies non sprayed. a wet spot and temps to suit the species, my milii live on coir peat as I live in hot, no humity area my p/platurus have a stone rock with lots of hides spray regularly in no way am I experienced and im still learning but I try to find things to make them happy and healthy and by reading those books and more will only help, and work out your climate location to their's. You will find that my setups may not work for you and this is why I say hands on learning helps and to master one species before tackling another, thats my opinion. Hope it helps


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## Smithers (Dec 7, 2012)

Red-Ink said:


> Male and female + Keeping Australian Geckos in Captivity by Rob Porter.



Thank you for saving me to write that down again


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

Another book option would be Danny Brown's new book on geckos and Pygopods. Definitely The most up to date book available at the moment. 

If you really want to do some research on these critters from someone who has kept and bred most of the available species then that is what I would be getting.

- - - Updated - - -

Robs book is great and a good starter but a bit light on info IMO.


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## Gonemad (Dec 7, 2012)

butters said:


> Another book option would be Danny Brown's new book on geckos and Pygopods. Definitely The most up to date book available at the moment.
> 
> That's on my wish list for Xmas? I believe it's fabulous book.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm think that's one of the books I'm getting. Its for sale on gumtree check it out.


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

Why not buy it direct from Danny's website and get a signed copy?


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

is this the book your talking about? This image is not mine and will be deleted in a few days.


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

Yep that's it. Would be a good source of info for anyone interested in geckos or legless lizards.


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## RedFox (Dec 7, 2012)

Yeah that's the one. Get it from geckodan. He is a sponser of APS and signs all his books. Gumtree can be dodgey. I have gotten plenty of good stuff on there but if I was thirteen, I would stick to eBay.


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## SamNabz (Dec 7, 2012)

Agreed with butters. That book, along with various others, can be purchased here: Geckodan - The Bookshop - and as mentioned, will arrive as a signed copy.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

Cool I will definitely get that book and others like it such as the monitor version of that book.


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## cheekabee (Dec 7, 2012)

Whats the point keeping burtons leggless lizards if you have to force feed them. Surely they would have a much lower quality of life in captivity than in the wild. Im not aiming this comment to you reptilesforme but to all those people that keep burtons. Leave them in the wild, they are not a reptile that should be allowed to keep in captivity. It would be so depressing for me to be force feeding a reptile every single feed, imagine what it would be like for the reptile. Have respect for them and leave them in the wild!


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

I keep them. I don't force feed them.

Why keep them? Why keep anything? 

How is me keeping them any different than you keeping a snake or a bluetongue


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## Sleazy.P.Martini (Dec 7, 2012)

butters said:


> I keep them. I don't force feed them.
> 
> Why keep them? Why keep anything?
> 
> How is me keeping them any different than you keeping a snake or a bluetongue



Or a dingo


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## SamNabz (Dec 7, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Have respect for them and leave them in the wild!



Lmao, if everyone had that attitude, no one (including yourself) would have the privilege of owning any herps...

The View is back on, quick get back to the couch!


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## cheekabee (Dec 7, 2012)

How do you feed your burtons? if you don't force feed them well done, but the majority of burtons kept in captivity are force fed.The difference between keeping a bluetongue or snake is that a bluetongue or snake is happy, content and take food naturally, enthusiasticly, vigorously and gracefully unlike a burton being force fed every single feed. There is no respect force feeding or even just assist feeding a reptile that is perfectly capable of eating naturally. For a reptile to have a happy life they need to display natural behaviours and instincts and the most important one is hunting and catching prey.


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

You can keep them in some states ,apparently, on their natural diet of lizards.


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## Xeaal (Dec 7, 2012)

Jason.s said:


> This is one of the best threads i've seen on here that hasn't been deleted.
> Reptiles4me you want to get some Australian Reptile books to read they have more info then the ones you are showing, they have no info on keeping Australian reptiles, and you want to listen to some of the people on here they really now what there talking about.



Maybe, but if/when I do get my legless lizard (and it won't be a Burtons btw) I sure as hell am not telling this lot LOLOL


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## eipper (Dec 7, 2012)

cheekabee said:


> Whats the point keeping burtons leggless lizards if you have to force feed them. Surely they would have a much lower quality of life in captivity than in the wild. Im not aiming this comment to you reptilesforme but to all those people that keep burtons. Leave them in the wild, they are not a reptile that should be allowed to keep in captivity. It would be so depressing for me to be force feeding a reptile every single feed, imagine what it would be like for the reptile. Have respect for them and leave them in the wild!



More bs

not all Burton's come from the scrub. I have photos of butters hatchlings the day after they came out of the egg. Lovely critters that do very well in captvity. They also happen to thrive on Hemidactylus... So no harm to wild reptile populations depending on how it's managed.

Even if you did take the odd skink (which is legal in some states) it would cause a lot less harm to an ecosystem than say you when you spend a day rock rolling for impar

get off your high horse

cheers
scott


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

I live in Queensland so can legally feed them their natural diet.

I hand feed all of mine so they will take dead food items. Means I don't need to feed live. I use tweezers rather than tongs almost like feeding any snake really. Wave it in front of them and they strike.

That and house geckos are everywhere up here and make a perfect food source.


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## Red-Ink (Dec 7, 2012)

eipper said:


> More bs
> 
> not all Burton's come from the scrub. I have photos of butters hatchlings the day after they came out of the egg. Lovely critters that do very well in captvity. They also happen to thrive on Hemidactylus... So no harm to wild reptile populations depending on how it's managed.
> 
> ...



At least the AHGs are good for something.... now what do we do bout those toads?


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## butters (Dec 7, 2012)

Aside from their food preference Burton's would have to be one of the least demanding reptiles I own.


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## cheekabee (Dec 7, 2012)

eipper said:


> More bs





eipper said:


> not all Burton's come from the scrub. I have photos of butters hatchlings the day after they came out of the egg. Lovely critters that do very well in captvity. They also happen to thrive on Hemidactylus... So no harm to wild reptile populations depending on how it's managed.
> 
> Even if you did take the odd skink (which is legal in some states) it would cause a lot less harm to an ecosystem than say you when you spend a day rock rolling for impar
> 
> ...


I now know it does seem fine keeping them in captivity in some other states. But living in Victoria we as Herp keepers dont have the same rules as Queensland and so on, although we are allowed to keep burtons we cant feed them their natural diet. And the few, I think irresbonsible people that do keep these beautifull animals must resort to force feeding them. And I do take back some of my previous comments as did not know other states rules instead I was basing my argument on Victoria's rules as the OP that started this thread wanted to know how to get hold of legless lizards in Victoria. I hope you understand.



Xeaal said:


> Can anyone please point me in the right direction for information about keeping (and where to buy) legless lizards in Victoria? Thank you.


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## eipper (Dec 7, 2012)

So I since your taking the ethical high ground I take it no more herping for you?


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## cheekabee (Dec 7, 2012)

eipper said:


> So I since your taking the ethical high ground I take it no more herping for you?


Herping is my passion and I love seeing reptiles in their natural habitat, I think they look so much happier and better where the are found naturally. I know they do get stressed but I only handle them to a minimum and when I do handle them I take care and I've never had a skink or gecko loose their tail on me. I always put rocks back the way they were originally and leave with minimal disturbance. I personally think my, and other people's herping pics, including yours save species by making people aware of what's out there in their back yards and hopefully I change people views on reptiles and show people how beautiful reptiles actually are, I also hope they think twice before littering ,or even what plants people plant in their back yard. Here's my flicker account if you want to see some more of my herping pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/akashsherping/8216570112/in/photostream/


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

Hey I think that in some cases ,not all but some, reptiles are better off in captivity.


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## MonitorMayhem (Dec 7, 2012)

is this thread still going


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## Reptiles4me (Dec 7, 2012)

Yep hahaha ,I know that was a rhetorical question,


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