# Can you refreeze mice after there been thawed out?



## Lachie2261 (Nov 13, 2012)

Hey today I offered my snake an extra hopper mouse to see if she was still hungry she wasn't now Im just wondering if I can refreeze the mouse or do I jus chuck it out haha thanks


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## Wrightpython (Nov 13, 2012)

If it hasn't been out to long then yes you can refreeze it but seriously for a dollar mouse I wouldn't bother


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## LadyDiamond (Nov 13, 2012)

I recently purchase 30mice they unfortunately arrived defrost due to ignorance, but anyway we refrozen them, when we defrosted them again every single one that got refrozen they guts popped out, so yeah..


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## Reptilez123 (Nov 13, 2012)

play it safe and chuck it out


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## hnn17 (Nov 13, 2012)

feed it to another snake


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## JrFear (Nov 13, 2012)

It's just like our meat I guess would u refreeze it?
if my snake doesn't go for its food I tend to put it in a container in the fridge and try again the next day if it still doesn't take it, it's in the bin!


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## TheReptileben (Nov 13, 2012)

I wouldn't refreeze it... more of a reason to get multiple snakes


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 13, 2012)

once food is defrosted the bacteria starts growing and cannot be re-frozen,reptile food should be treated the same as human food


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## Tobe404 (Nov 13, 2012)

I wouldn't refreeze any already frozen and thawed out food items - but that''s just me.
But I do know some people that do and they haven't had any problems... 
At least as far as Snake food goes.


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## disintegratus (Nov 13, 2012)

I have heard that it's generally a no-no, what with the bacteria growth etc. I have heard (couldn't provide evidence, so it's hearsay at best) that re-freezing thawed out rodents has actually killed a snake. I wouldn't refreeze for snakes, my logic is that snakes have not evolved as scavengers in any way, so are ill-equipped to deal with food that is not "fresh". I re-freeze food for me, and for various other animals if necessary. That said, I don't need to re-freeze anything, if one snake doesn't want what's offered, it goes to the next one, and if none of them want it, it goes to the ferrets, and they never don't want it


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## Blake182 (Nov 13, 2012)

I re-froze once when I left a pack out of the freezer.. But now well of next week I'm going to be feeding freshly killed so if they don't eat it I can but it back in the freezer


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## congo_python (Nov 13, 2012)

NO.


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## traceylee (Nov 14, 2012)

I won't do it.
I wouldn't refreeze food for us, so I wouldn't do it for any animal either.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 14, 2012)

disintegratus said:


> I have heard that it's generally a no-no, what with the bacteria growth etc. I have heard (couldn't provide evidence, so it's hearsay at best) that re-freezing thawed out rodents has actually killed a snake. I wouldn't refreeze for snakes, my logic is that snakes have not evolved as scavengers in any way, so are ill-equipped to deal with food that is not "fresh". I re-freeze food for me, and for various other animals if necessary. That said, I don't need to re-freeze anything, if one snake doesn't want what's offered, it goes to the next one, and if none of them want it, it goes to the ferrets, and they never don't want it



Much of this is untrue. Many snakes, even pythons, will opportunistically eat dead animals such as road kill, and often in a state of putrefaction, without harm. Snakes MUST deal with food that is quite quickly not "fresh" - a snake which eats a large prey item, even a Carpet which eats a fair sized rat, will have to deal with the rotten contents of the gut of the rat when its stomach juices eventually penetrate the gut cavity, which can take days in some instances. Snakes don't do as mammals do - chew their food and mix it with saliva bfore swallowing it and sending it down into a bath of hydrochloric acid, which, incidentally in mammals, is further quickly mixed by the muscular activity of the stomach. 

Anything larger than a half-grown mouse or rat is going to mean the snake has to deal with putrefaction as part of the digestive process, and as long as temps (the most critical factor at this time) remain suitable, there will be no problem, because it's routine. That's why you should NEVER feed snakes large meals when anticipating a heat-wave or a cold snap - when it's very hot, the food will decay faster than the snake's system can deal with it, and in cold weather, the snake's system will once again be too slow.

To suggest that snakes will suffer if given food that's a bit "off" is like saying your dog will die if it digs up and eats a bone it buried 2 weeks ago - of course it won't - neither dogs nor snakes have anywhere near the sensitivity to "germs" that we humans do.

Having said that, naturally we like to give our snakes (& our dogs) fresh food. But on the odd occasion that a rodent or other food item has been rejected, and it has been previously quickly thawed, it is certainly OK to refreeze after a couple of hours, to try again later.

Jamie


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## wokka (Nov 14, 2012)

LadyDiamond said:


> I recently purchase 30mice they unfortunately arrived defrost due to ignorance, but anyway we refrozen them, when we defrosted them again every single one that got refrozen they guts popped out, so yeah..


I receive a lot of enquiry for small quantities of frozen food to be delivered. Just because some suppliers do it doesn't mean it works. You need thermal mass to maintain temperature without refrigeration and so shipping small quantities can lead to dissappointment. Just becuase some suppliers do it doesn't mean it works all the time. Having said that we have shipped small quantities by overnight post and they have arrived frozen but i wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis. The packaging reqired was'nt worth the risk, but in an emergency-Maybe.


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## disintegratus (Nov 14, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Much of this is untrue. Many snakes, even pythons, will opportunistically eat dead animals such as road kill, and often in a state of putrefaction, without harm. Snakes MUST deal with food that is quite quickly not "fresh" - a snake which eats a large prey item, even a Carpet which eats a fair sized rat, will have to deal with the rotten contents of the gut of the rat when its stomach juices eventually penetrate the gut cavity, which can take days in some instances. Snakes don't do as mammals do - chew their food and mix it with saliva bfore swallowing it and sending it down into a bath of hydrochloric acid, which, incidentally in mammals, is further quickly mixed by the muscular activity of the stomach.
> 
> Anything larger than a half-grown mouse or rat is going to mean the snake has to deal with putrefaction as part of the digestive process, and as long as temps (the most critical factor at this time) remain suitable, there will be no problem, because it's routine. That's why you should NEVER feed snakes large meals when anticipating a heat-wave or a cold snap - when it's very hot, the food will decay faster than the snake's system can deal with it, and in cold weather, the snake's system will once again be too slow.
> 
> ...



I did say it was hearsay at best
Thanks, Pythininfinite, I learnt something Although now that you mentioned it, I think I vaguely remember hearing something about the opportunistic feeding habits of snakes, I think it may have been one of those pieces of information that I heard and did not absorb. I've gotten a lot stupider since I finished school.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 14, 2012)

Ha, haven't we all... and I left school soooo long ago !

J


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## Snowman (Nov 14, 2012)

Pythoninfinite said:


> Much of this is untrue. Many snakes, even pythons, will opportunistically eat dead animals such as road kill, and often in a state of putrefaction, without harm. Snakes MUST deal with food that is quite quickly not "fresh" - a snake which eats a large prey item, even a Carpet which eats a fair sized rat, will have to deal with the rotten contents of the gut of the rat when its stomach juices eventually penetrate the gut cavity, which can take days in some instances. Snakes don't do as mammals do - chew their food and mix it with saliva bfore swallowing it and sending it down into a bath of hydrochloric acid, which, incidentally in mammals, is further quickly mixed by the muscular activity of the stomach.
> 
> Anything larger than a half-grown mouse or rat is going to mean the snake has to deal with putrefaction as part of the digestive process, and as long as temps (the most critical factor at this time) remain suitable, there will be no problem, because it's routine. That's why you should NEVER feed snakes large meals when anticipating a heat-wave or a cold snap - when it's very hot, the food will decay faster than the snake's system can deal with it, and in cold weather, the snake's system will once again be too slow.
> 
> ...



This is the best answer, and the only answer worth listening too. Everything else just goes against common sense and and sounds RIDICULOUS! If they can handle a partly decomposed bit of carrion in the wild then they can handle a re frozen mouse.


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## Tobe404 (Nov 14, 2012)

Yeah but still there's got to be some sort of limit on how long (or the amount of times) the frozen food item(s) can be thawed out and refrozen until negative effects start popping up? I would of thought so anyway.


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## sunglow (Nov 14, 2012)

Buy a monitor they will take care of any left over food....


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 14, 2012)

Well, of course. For snakes I wouldn't suggest more than once, for carnivorous lizards such as monitors, the sky's the limit - I've seen a couple of Lacies inside a hole in the guts of a pig that must have been dead about 10 days. They were gorging themselves on the putrid contents of the pig's abdomen... yum ! 

Just use common sense - if the food animal smells OK, it's probably OK to feed a snake. A snake's digestive system works more slowly than ours so putrefaction is often a part of the digestion process with big prey - it can take a couple of weeks for a scrubby to break down the bulk of a large wallaby, during which time it rots faster than the digestive processes can prevent, but eventually the digestive juices clean it all up and sterilise the mass of decay bacteria.

Jamie.


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## congo_python (Nov 14, 2012)

Just to clarify - My NO was for husbandry reasons not the digestive facts of your snake system. I just wouldn't like dealing with the smell and cleaning up the mess in the enclosure of a twice frozen rat/mouse's guts breaking out of the now weak belly skin as the snake hits the rodent and wraps/squeezes it every where. It also happens if you leave the rodent in hot water longer than needed from my experiences.


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 15, 2012)

congo_python said:


> Just to clarify - My NO was for husbandry reasons not the digestive facts of your snake system. I just wouldn't like dealing with the smell and cleaning up the mess in the enclosure of a twice frozen rat/mouse's guts breaking out of the now weak belly skin as the snake hits the rodent and wraps/squeezes it every where. It also happens if you leave the rodent in hot water longer than needed from my experiences.



I've never had that problem, but you would if the animal had either been thawed too long previously or wasn't held at the appropriate temperature while frozen. I wasn't suggesting that you put a half-rotten rodent back in the freezer, but a rodent thawed quickly in hot water, offered and refused over an hour or two, is usually fine to re-freeze, unless it was poorly frozen in the first place. Some people just bag up numbers of these things after they've been killed and put them in a freezer as a lump, which means they freeze very slowly in the middle of the heap. To freeze rodents efficiently they should be killed, allowed to cool by spreading them out on a bench for 20 mins/half an hour, and then packing ONLY ONE LAYER DEEP and placing in a freezer. They should not be stacked in the freezer until thoroughly frozen or at least extremely chilled. Very rapid chilling can be achieved by putting a small desk fan in the freezer to circulate the air.

And then there's the problem of the working temperature of the freezer, given that many people keep their rodents in an old "beer fridge" or something similar (mum won't let them keep dead rats in the kitchen appliance!). Many "second" fridges are old and have poor sealing, so it may well be that the rodents are deteriorating far more quickly than they otherwise would in an efficient freezer.

I frequently re-freeze uneaten rodents because if I have offered it to one snake and it's not eaten, I don't then offer it to the next one because in my opinion that's a very good way to spread disease. That rodent is then only offered to the same snake next time round. In 40 years I've never had a problem with illness caused by feeding re-frozen food items.

Jamie


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## Snowman (Nov 15, 2012)

If we have learnt anything on APS Jamie, it's that 40+ years experience is nothing compared to a newbie with one snake


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## Pythoninfinite (Nov 15, 2012)

Ahh Trent - 40+ years of dealing with herp people (of all sorts!) - surely retirement isn't too far away ! My skin is so thick it's like a suit of armour lol!

J


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 15, 2012)

Jamie said what I was going to say but sooo much better.
I feed the off rodents to the ravens and when i kept monitors they would get them.


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## LadyDiamond (Nov 15, 2012)

wokka said:


> I receive a lot of enquiry for small quantities of frozen food to be delivered. Just because some suppliers do it doesn't mean it works. You need thermal mass to maintain temperature without refrigeration and so shipping small quantities can lead to dissappointment. Just becuase some suppliers do it doesn't mean it works all the time. Having said that we have shipped small quantities by overnight post and they have arrived frozen but i wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis. The packaging reqired was'nt worth the risk, but in an emergency-Maybe.





I know they were on Dry Ice, but for some reason AAE couldnt find them, so i believe going by the shipment date that they left the supplier to us picking up them up, was 3 days and they were not fridgerated over those 3 days!!


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## daniel101 (Nov 15, 2012)

Great thread, ive had the same problem with buying frozen rats my scrub would never take them and when she did it was very unwillingly, had to sit there and baby her. Would normally throw them away because they smelt like ****


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## wokka (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyDiamond said:


> I know they were on Dry Ice, but for some reason AAE couldnt find them, so i believe going by the shipment date that they left the supplier to us picking up them up, was 3 days and they were not fridgerated over those 3 days!!


That might be the problem. My understanding is you cant send dry ice in air freight as it is considers dangerous goods. As it thaws, it produced CO2 and so grandually gasses the cabin crew which is not desirable.


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