# Native mammals



## Jonno from ERD (Aug 29, 2007)

G'day guys,

Is anyone else keeping native mammals? We keep 4 species - Spinifex Hopping Mice, Sugar Gliders, Squirrel Gliders and Brushtail Possums. They are relatively simply to look after, and by the looks of things we will have baby Squirrel Gliders at the end of the year. We've bred the Spinifex Hoppers several times now and they have more than doubled their numbers.

I'd really like to get in touch with people who have or are keeping Kowari's and Dunnarts, plus the harder to keep species like Echidna's. 

Cheers

Jonno


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## hornet (Aug 29, 2007)

Would love to keep some native rodents buts unfortunatlycant. Got pics of your spinifex hopping mouse setup?


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## darkangel (Aug 29, 2007)

i would love an echidna! lol it will never happen though lol
what are spinifex hopping mice worth?? they are soo cute


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## nuthn2do (Aug 29, 2007)

You'll curse the day you get a pet Echidna :lol:


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## Hickson (Aug 29, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> You'll curse the day you get a pet Echidna :lol:



Was thinking the same thing!



Hix


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## darkangel (Aug 29, 2007)

dare i ask why? lol


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## Hickson (Aug 29, 2007)

They dig, and they are very powerful, quite capable of destroying things. They don't usually like being handled and it can be difficult to do if you don't know exactly what you are doing. They pick up paralysis ticks quite frequently. Quite happy to bury themselves in the ground all day with only a few spines sticking out.

And feeding is labour intensive. You have to make a slurry that is almost liquid, comprising meat, milk raw egg and other additives. As a result, their poop stinks (because of the meat).

Best kept by zoos and fauna parks IMO.



Hix


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## nuthn2do (Aug 29, 2007)

Hix said:


> They dig, and they are very powerful, quite capable of destroying things. They don't usually like being handled and it can be difficult to do if you don't know exactly what you are doing. They pick up paralysis ticks quite frequently. Quite happy to bury themselves in the ground all day with only a few spines sticking out.
> 
> And feeding is labour intensive. You have to make a slurry that is almost liquid, comprising meat, milk raw egg and other additives. As a result, their poop stinks (because of the meat).
> 
> ...



And that's their good points. Try picking one up, even if you can get by the spines they have an extraordinary ability to stick to any surface like snot to a velvet jacket.


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## 0_missy_0 (Aug 29, 2007)

Would love to see your spinifex hopping mouse setup, Jonno. Thinking about getting some.


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## croc_hunter_penny (Aug 29, 2007)

oh and echidnas are extremely shy..

ditto about seeing the spinifex hopping mouse setup


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## nvenm8 (Aug 29, 2007)

darkangel said:


> i would love an echidna! lol it will never happen though lol
> what are spinifex hopping mice worth?? they are soo cute




The mice will be fairly cheap, It's the licence to keep them that will hurt.


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## Hickson (Aug 29, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> And that's their good points. Try picking one up, even if you can get by the spines they have an extraordinary ability to stick to any surface like snot to a velvet jacket.



And wherever the spines prick you, you end up with a prickly little rash. I used to get the on the belly and when the spines pierced my shirt, and on the palms of my hands.



Hix


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## hornet (Aug 29, 2007)

i have seen hopping mice go for $5-$10.


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## 1234webb (Aug 29, 2007)

Hi,

Is there any permit you can get to keep spinifex hopping mice in Queensland ? 

Thanks


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## hornet (Aug 29, 2007)

exhibitor's permit, i think you need a business that needs one to be able to get it.


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## Jonno from ERD (Aug 29, 2007)

G'day guys,

We're currently setting up a new Spinifex Hopper enclosure, complete with underground tunnel system etc. They are very easy to keep, our current set up is just the same as you would keep laboratory mice, with a bit more variance in their diet. I'll post some pics of our new set up once it is done. The price for them varies - I have seen them been given away (or even euthanised due to overpopulation), and there was a bloke in Victoria charging $50 each last year. We will charge somewhere inbetween that price for ours. Unfortunately the only places that can keep native mammals in Queensland are Demonstrators (like us) and Exhibitors. This is one of many aspects of QPWS legislation that I think is flawed...From memory, there are 2 or 3 species of mammal allowed to be kept in NSW though.

We're not afraid to admit that we are total novices at mammal keeping, having almost zero experience with them before we got them. Thankfully we seem to have picked up most of the tricks and tips fairly quickly and we're having some success. Our biggest problem at the moment is calming down our skittish possum. If you've got her milk, she'll be your best friend, but any sudden movement or noise and she will run and hide in the most awkward area and refuse to budge until she gets hungry again. They have big teeth!

Cheers


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## hornet (Aug 29, 2007)

sounds good jonno, i had plans for a big enclosure wsith a tunnel system before i found i couldnt have them


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## nuthn2do (Aug 29, 2007)

Hey Jonno I've raised quite a few possums and they all go through a stage where they become very skittish, it seems to be a basic survival instinct that's incorporated into play. She should be seeking a "mother" for protection in these sorts of situations if she's young and not yet weaned (back baby), hiding by herself isn't something young possums should do. 
How old is she or whats her weight?


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## Jonno from ERD (Aug 29, 2007)

Hey mate,

She is fully weaned out. We offer a weak milk solution simply because she loves it and it means we can handle her a bit. Fruit has a similar effect but the milk is like a magnet, you can't get her away from it.


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## nuthn2do (Aug 29, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> She is fully weaned out. We offer a weak milk solution simply because she loves it and it means we can handle her a bit. Fruit has a similar effect but the milk is like a magnet, you can't get her away from it.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news Jonno but that's just a possum being possumy. Just get a big bottle of betadine and some superglue :lol:


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## Real Life Wildlife (Aug 30, 2007)

Let me know when you need to move some on Jonno, I am keen.


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## Real Life Wildlife (Aug 30, 2007)

I have looked after spinifex, wombats, native & exotic parrots and cockatoos, and the family has done a lot more and quite a few others before so might be able to offer assistance if you need.


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## hornet (Aug 30, 2007)

kirrachaos said:


> I have looked after spinifex, wombats, native & exotic parrots and cockatoos, and the family has done a lot more and quite a few others before so might be able to offer assistance if you need.



what licence you you have for the wombats? I have heard they can be great pets just dig alot


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## Rocket (Aug 30, 2007)

hornet said:


> what licence you you have for the wombats? I have heard they can be great pets just dig alot



hmm, I didnt know that Hornet! LOL

SA must be pretty darn good as our BASIC Cl 1 list allows for (I think) 50+ Mammal species incl. Kangaroos, Dunnarts, Gliders, Wallabies, Potoroos and here, Spinifex Hopping Mice are listed as exempt so no Permit required.

Have a good day :-D


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## nuthn2do (Aug 30, 2007)

hornet said:


> what licence you you have for the wombats? I have heard they can be great pets just dig alot


Nah very temperamental and extremely powerful animals. No way a single person can control an adult wombat, they do what they want.


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## Brock Lobster (Aug 30, 2007)

have you guys seen many mitchell's hopping mice? ive only ever seen one pair for sale & it was $230 each. has anyone seen them cheaper?


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## hornet (Aug 30, 2007)

nuthn2do said:


> Nah very temperamental and extremely powerful animals. No way a single person can control an adult wombat, they do what they want.



i have worked with wombats at a zoo for a day and were pretty cranky but the only "pet" i have seen was pretty good.


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## nuthn2do (Aug 30, 2007)

Some of my 6 locals. Casey and Skittles together (approx 16 months) and the new unnamed addition (7 months). Casey is actually named after the person that bought him in, some young bloke that rides a ducati


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## hornet (Aug 30, 2007)

what are the like as pets i your opinion?


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## nuthn2do (Aug 31, 2007)

hornet said:


> what are the like as pets i your opinion?


Crappier than crap. :lol:


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## hornet (Aug 31, 2007)

lol mayb the one i saw was in a good mood :lol: All i know if the ones at the zoo were very cranky


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## -Peter (Aug 31, 2007)

I know of an illegally kept wombat here in Sydney. It was found wandering the street and taken to a carers home where upon it seized the blanket it had been transported in and climbed onto a lounge chair and went to sleep. Not long after we recieved a call about a lost wombat. I understand the carer descided to return the wombat to the caller. I am not in the loop on this one so thats all I know.


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## darkangel (Aug 31, 2007)

they look so cuddly! i want one!!!! lol i want everything but can't get too much. 3 kids make it hard to have a lot of pets. i'll just stick to my reptiles and fish i think. for now anyway lol
always wanted to be a wildlife carer but unfortunately don't have the time the animals would need right now


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## Hickson (Aug 31, 2007)

I've worked with wombats occassionally over the years and I agree with - they don't make good pets, especially whn 18 months or older. Cranky ones can be a real pain, and when they bite they can go through to the bone. Their incisors are chisel-like and their cheekteeth are rootless (grow throughout their lives, like a rats).

Juveniles being handreared are cute as buggery and appear dim-witted, but the wombat has the largest brain (compared to it's bodysize) of any mammal. At around 11 months most go through a stage where it appears their only goal in life is to amputate every human foot they see at the ankles.



Hix


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## Nephrurus (Aug 31, 2007)

Hix, I've heard exactly the same thing about southern hairy nosed wombats. Gorgeous, cuddley animals til they get to 18months, then they decide their sole purpose is to devour the keeper from the knees down. I did hear one story of a bloke who raised one as a family pet. At 18 months it was still as cuddley as ever with his wife and 3 kids (rolling over, cuddling up on the couch etc...) but it hated the bloke who'd raised the bloody thing. It's try to dig through doors to get at him............ gratitude 


-H


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## Real Life Wildlife (Aug 31, 2007)

They aren't pets! They are not mean, they ar not evil but just simply aren't pets, they have never been domesticated and would take thousands of generations to even tyr and domesticate them and after my experience and believe it would be great to see them never domesticated. AMazing animals which I have the most amount of respect for.


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## nuthn2do (Aug 31, 2007)

Hix said:


> I've worked with wombats occassionally over the years and I agree with - they don't make good pets, especially whn 18 months or older. Cranky ones can be a real pain, and when they bite they can go through to the bone. Their incisors are chisel-like and their cheekteeth are rootless (grow throughout their lives, like a rats).
> 
> Juveniles being handreared are cute as buggery and appear dim-witted, but the wombat has the largest brain (compared to it's bodysize) of any mammal. At around 11 months most go through a stage where it appears their only goal in life is to amputate every human foot they see at the ankles.
> 
> ...



It's the achilles tendon they're after, they know if they snip that all threat is instantly disabled.


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## Dragoness (Aug 31, 2007)

Have to agree that wombats arent great pets. At all the zoos Ive worked at you're not allowed in with them unless you're wearing steel capped shoes. I used to wear joggers as the boots hurt my feet too much, so was a case of spy wombat, them jump over and grab empty food dish and vault out as quickly as possible before it spotted me  They have VERY sharp teeth!

Cheers


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## Glidergirl (Oct 20, 2007)

I have 4 Squirrel Gliders, 4 Sugar Gliders and 4 Ringtail possums.
I am a wildlife carer and I raised the ringtail possums wich came in orphaned and for various reason are unreleasable.
I am also looking for a white tipped (tail) Sugar Glider female, preferably young, if anyone can help please let me know.
Thanks


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## herptrader (Oct 20, 2007)

We do not have squirrel gliders on the Victorian schedules which is a shame.

We have a few ring tails but they are wild and live in our garden.


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## Viridae (Oct 20, 2007)

The hopping mice I want to see a pic off too - I had considered them.


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## pythonmum (Oct 20, 2007)

My flatmate and I kept Kowaris and some native mice (not spinifex hoppers) many years ago. We also fostered orphaned fruit bats - nothing like a big fruit bat hanging off your hand to scare off the Jehovah's Witnesses! (That was a VERY funny encounter...)

Anyway, the Kowaris belonged to my flatmate, but were pretty easy to keep. I think she'd gotten excess stock from someone at Taronga (?). We fed them a bit of dog food, some mixed veg, regular treats of meal worms and pinkie mice now and then. They enjoyed bogong moths, too. We kept them in a big aviary and a concerned neighbour once reported to us that we had rats in our parrot cage because she saw them running around at night. 

I also spent a summer working in the Research Dept of the National Zoo in Washington DC. They kept a variety of marsupials including some S. Amer. species, sugar gliders and ringtails. The South American Monodelphis are much like the kowaris in diet and size. The zoo diet was minced vegetables (sw potato and kale), meat, fresh crickets, mealworms, a bit of fruit and pinkie mice as treats. That summer got me hooked on marsupials and led to the move to Australia - never know where your interests will take you!


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## abbott75 (Oct 20, 2007)

pythonmum said:


> We also fostered orphaned fruit bats - nothing like a big fruit bat hanging off your hand to scare off the Jehovah's Witnesses! (That was a VERY funny encounter...)



HAHA, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you'll be amazed at the things we see whilst out annoying people!:lol:


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## pythonmum (Oct 20, 2007)

Maybe you would have known what to say - the poor folks who came to our door just hyperventilated and ran!


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## ari (Oct 20, 2007)

Hey now this is interesting.....which is the smallest of the species Sugar Gliders or Squirrel Gliders? And what is the smallest possum, the pygmy possum - if so are they available to keep or breed in captivity? Anyone have them?


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## xander (Oct 20, 2007)

Sugar Gliders are half the size of Squirrel gliders. The smallest of all possums is the Little Pygmy possum,which weighs in at a massive 6 grams or so.Ive cared for the eastern pygmies.


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## chickenman (Oct 20, 2007)

lol i volunteer at toronga zoo occasionaly, as some of u might know. and the wombat they used to have at the aus mammal section is cool. i was with on of the aus mammal keepers and she goes up to the wall of the enclosure and taps on the side and it waddles over to her and sits there while she gives him a pat... lol that was funny 

but the echidna mix..... ewwww.... its the grossest stuff ever ( the food hix was talking about earlyer) it smells gross.... it looks gross.... it is gross... especially when u have to clean the container it was in.... it had been sitting out in the sun for a day and it had gone all chunky and ewww... i almost through up


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## Inkslinger (Oct 20, 2007)

Have kept suger gliders ringtails and brushtails Brush tails would have to be my favorite


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## waruikazi (Oct 20, 2007)

Have cared for and am currently caring for northern brush tails and very temporarily had an agile wallaby. Babies are very cute, but an awful lot of work!


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## jan (Oct 20, 2007)

We have a very cute pair of Sugar Gliders...sweet little critters!!
And we have 5 Tammar Wallabies, including one very cute joey which emerged from
its mums pouch just recently...one of the male Wallabies is an Albino..we call him Grubby


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Oct 21, 2007)

Congrats on the joey jan, must bring the kids around again for a big ooh aaah session.


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## sassy (Oct 21, 2007)

hi, i would love to know more about keeping the brush tail possums please.... i often have long chats with the wild ones around here... most r fairly inquisitive and some will allow a short pat, even without offering food (i dont do that cos id rather not have them live in my roof!)
Just wondering what and where u keep them? and if they trash the house when u let them roam?
thanks


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## sassy (Oct 21, 2007)

oh, have also nursed a few orphan ring tails for a week or so under wildlife carers instructions, then released them... was hard to put them back they were so sweet...and obsessed with rose petals.


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

I look aftedr mine in a bird aviary. Bout 2x2x1m


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## alex_c (Oct 21, 2007)

i have kept sugargliders. and my nanna used to have an orphaned wombat she raised from a baby when it got bigger it used to bite to be picked up:lol:


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## sassy (Oct 21, 2007)

and they r good pets? u let them inside for play etc? i assume if the wild ones as so inquisitive as a pet they would interact a lot with their owner?


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

They willl never be like a dog or a cat.


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## alex_c (Oct 21, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> They willl never be like a dog or a cat.


 i did come across a male ringtail who was tame like a cat i should have bought him


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 21, 2007)

Ours sleeps in a large cat carrier, and has free roam over whichever closed room we choose at night. We were desperately trying to hand tame her but we think she was just a bit too old when we got her, so we are now trying to tame her as much as possible, and will put her in an aviary with a male next year and hand raise her young. They trash everything, they smell and if they want attention they will screech very loud!


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

Tame like a wild bad bottom feral cat? Or nice and friendly?


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

Jonno how do they go inside? Do they dribble pee everywhere? Cause nothing smells worse than marsupial piss. It's even worse than cat musk!


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## Jonno from ERD (Oct 21, 2007)

Yeah mate, she isn't toilet trained, hence the reason we normally interact with her in the bathroom so it can be mopped and cleaned afterwards. I'm actually getting really sick of having her inside but she isn't quite big enough to put her outside yet. They really do test your patience but your heart melts when you walk past and she runs to the front of the cage and shreeks until she gets a carrot.


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## sassy (Oct 21, 2007)

any pics waruikazi?


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

Not really sorry, this shows it the best... which still isn't very good lol.


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Yeah mate, she isn't toilet trained, hence the reason we normally interact with her in the bathroom so it can be mopped and cleaned afterwards. I'm actually getting really sick of having her inside but she isn't quite big enough to put her outside yet. They really do test your patience but your heart melts when you walk past and she runs to the front of the cage and shreeks until she gets a carrot.



How do you toilet train moronic animals such as aussie native lol?


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## Inkslinger (Oct 21, 2007)

Much the same as you train Moronic people


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## Brock Lobster (Oct 21, 2007)

does anyone here keep fat tailed dunnarts? one of my teachers wants to get a pair & i thought i'd help him with info.

if anyone has any info, pm me.


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## waruikazi (Oct 21, 2007)

Inkslinger said:


> Much the same as you train Moronic people



Rub their nose in it?


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## Hickson (Oct 21, 2007)

chickenman said:


> but the echidna mix..... ewwww.... its the grossest stuff ever ( the food hix was talking about earlyer) it smells gross.... it looks gross.... it is gross... especially when u have to clean the container it was in.... it had been sitting out in the sun for a day and it had gone all chunky and ewww... i almost through up



You should try mixing it up. That's even worse.

A friend of mine handraised a Western Quoll in WA years ago, asnd he said it was the tamest most affectionate pet he'd ever had - leaves cats for dead as far as pets go, he said. I've often thought I'd like to give a Tiger Quoll a go. Out of Ringtails and Brushtails, I'd take a Ringtail every time - not as big and boisterous, and doesn't smell as much.



Hix


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## falconboy (Oct 21, 2007)

Speaking of which, has anyone got/seen these womans self published books? Are they any good? She has books on Dunnarts, Quolls, Antechinus, possums, gliders and macropods.

http://pawprintz.customer.netspace.net.au/contents/en-uk/d1.html


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## Brock Lobster (Oct 21, 2007)

falconboy said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone got/seen these womans self published books? Are they any good? She has books on Dunnarts, Quolls, Antechinus, possums, gliders and macropods.
> 
> http://pawprintz.customer.netspace.net.au/contents/en-uk/d1.html



never heard of them, but i might grab a copy of each one. They look pretty decent


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## falconboy (Oct 21, 2007)

Thats what I was thinking.


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## Hickson (Oct 21, 2007)

Never heard of her either. I'd have to look at the books to tell if they are any good or not, but if they are, that would be a bonus as they would fill a gap in the literature.



HIx


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## falconboy (Oct 21, 2007)

Hix said:


> Never heard of her either. I'd have to look at the books to tell if they are any good or not, but if they are, that would be a bonus as they would fill a gap in the literature.
> 
> 
> 
> HIx



Feel free to buy a couple and tell us what they're like Hix. :lol:


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## Hickson (Oct 21, 2007)

Seriously considering it.



Hix


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## Brock Lobster (Oct 21, 2007)

Hix said:


> Seriously considering it.
> 
> 
> 
> Hix



i just placed an order for the trio of books.


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## falconboy (Oct 21, 2007)

Hix said:


> Seriously considering it.
> 
> 
> 
> Hix




Email her and try and get a discount for review on APS. (get me a discount while you are at it!).


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## Kratos (Oct 21, 2007)

Can any native animals be kept in sydney?


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## Hickson (Oct 21, 2007)

Just bought all three, too.

Falconboy, if I'm revierwing, I won't ask for a discount.

Kratros - you can keep Dingos, Plains Rats and Spinifex Hopping Mice only.

For more details see http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/Mammal+keepers+licence



Hix


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## falconboy (Oct 21, 2007)

Geez, I should ask this woman for commission. :lol:


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## $NaKe PiMp (Oct 21, 2007)

NSW has strict laws only allowed spinifex hopping mouse and rats


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## $NaKe PiMp (Oct 21, 2007)

oh hix got in before me LOL


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## Viridae (Oct 21, 2007)

Anyone know what a Plains rat would be like to keep? Are they similar to domestic rats, in that they are cleaner than mice?


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## jonesc1 (Oct 22, 2007)

Ive kept Spinifex Hopping Mice and Plains Rats. Viridae, I would say Plains Rats are much cleaner than both domestic mice and rats. Very little smell, they even set up one corner as a toilet area. I had a pair and although I'd heard they were more difficult to breed than the Hopping Mice (which were unstoppable I might add, from 3 to 24 in no time, with litters of 3-4), they bred quite easily, producing three litters within the space of 4 months. They are far more skittish and nervous than domestic rats though and don't tame down well.


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## Viridae (Oct 22, 2007)

jonesc1 said:


> Ive kept Spinifex Hopping Mice and Plains Rats. Viridae, I would say Plains Rats are much cleaner than both domestic mice and rats. Very little smell, they even set up one corner as a toilet area. I had a pair and although I'd heard they were more difficult to breed than the Hopping Mice (which were unstoppable I might add, from 3 to 24 in no time, with litters of 3-4), they bred quite easily, producing three litters within the space of 4 months. They are far more skittish and nervous than domestic rats though and don't tame down well.



Thanks. If I wanted a good handler rat I would get a domestic - I'm more interested in behaviour though.


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## Brock Lobster (Oct 23, 2007)

i got those books in the mail today. Some really good care sheets in there! defiantly grab a copy of each.


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## falconboy (Oct 23, 2007)

Geez, that was quick delivery!


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## Brock Lobster (Oct 23, 2007)

i know! and it came with a free book mark!!! SCORE!


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## chickenman (Oct 23, 2007)

omg a free bock mark!!!! im so buying thoes books.... mayb not


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## jonesc1 (Oct 23, 2007)

Viridae said:


> Thanks. If I wanted a good handler rat I would get a domestic - I'm more interested in behaviour though.



Behaviour wise..... Boring. Being timid and nocturnal, you dont really have a good chance to see them doing what they do. Hopping mice on the other hand, far more interesting, they become used to you much easier and mine were active during the day aswell as night so you get a good chance to view their behaviour. Also, since hopping mice live in larger colonies, the social interactions are much better. Hopping Mice I would get again, Plains Rats......not worth it in my opinion. They just dont calm down enough to show natural behaviours, well, not when your looking anyway.


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## Hickson (Oct 25, 2007)

Mine arrived yesterday apparently. Very quick delivery.



Hix


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## falconboy (Oct 25, 2007)

Mine are ordered - I found she sold them on ebay too, so ended up the 3 with delivery for $41.25. Bargain!


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