# broad-headed snakes



## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 21, 2008)

just wondering who has seen wild broad headed snakes before, I would like to see photos of them. I know a few people have seen them. also would like to know was it active at night when you found it or near a crevice or under tin or rock.

Ryan


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## Luke1 (Sep 21, 2008)

hey Ryan...twas along time ago...but our next door neigbour had a snake and i wasn't keeping reptiles at the time but from what i remember it had a very very distinct head shape of that to ones in pics...but then again it could have been something else...

Luke


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 21, 2008)

also has anyone ever seen one crossing a road before (or roadkilled) or do they not venture far from there shelter site


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## Daniel_Penrith (Sep 21, 2008)

i saw on fox a guy who went lookin for some and he was talkin about how there distribution is so restricted........u may have seen it.....He is know as the snake catcher or hunter??
Just a lil bit of extra info thats prob already known!


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 21, 2008)

damn luke, I want to move to the block behind you 

daniel, think I saw that show, or a similar show a few years ago


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## Nephrurus (Sep 21, 2008)

Ryan, it is possible to see broadheads without flipping rocks. You just have to spend ALOT of time out in the bush (hard luck eh?). A mate found one spotlighting. It was crawling down a large gum tree onto the track. Another mate has found them several times moving across dirt roads (walking, not night driving).

-H


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 21, 2008)

thanks henry, I have heard of them being found late in the day aswell


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## SlothHead (Sep 21, 2008)

Yes i have seen a few little Hoplocephalus bungaroides, all of them because we were diliberately looking for them too so in sandstone rock cracks


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## jack (Sep 22, 2008)

have only seen one dead on road, on the appin road


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## saratoga (Sep 22, 2008)

I have seen a couple whilst looking under rocks and a friend has seen them crossing bushtracks at night(he had to scream at the driver to stop on one occassion......how would you feel if you were on a wildlife survey and you ran over an endangered species!). Basically they spend the winters on rocks and summers in the forests. If you do go looking for them please ensure any rocks are placed back exactly how you find them.....they have already suffered enormously from people smashing up sites and from the bushrock collectors. Someone is actually trialling placing artifially made rocks back into sites that have been stripped by bushrock collectors in the hope of stabilising Broad head populations. I'm not sure if they are active by day although I've heard reports of people seeing them basking next to crevices(I saw a Stephens Banded doing this once). I think they do most of their thermoregulation by shuffling around under rocks and inside hollow branches to remain at a preferred temperature.

Nephurus.....personally I DESPISE the term "flipping". I know it is well entrenched on American herpsites...but to me it invokes a completely carefree attitude to rolling rocks over with disregard to how they are replaced, if at all. I am sure you didn't mean it that way.

We have all been to sites, often sites we have visited for many years, only to find that others have been there and broken rocks, left rocks rolled on their backs or not bothered replacing them properly, and undoubtedly vacuumed up a lot of animals in the process! The seal a rock makes with the ground or other rocks is often quite critical for the animals that utilise them. Coming across sites like this is quite devastating. It takes little effort to put rocks and other cover back exactly how you found them. Apart from showing respect for the environment you are in, it pays off big time in that you can go back to the same places over and over again and still see animals.

I think on these forums there are quite a few people with little or no field experience and I think use of the word "flipping" only conveys a sense of disrespect for the environment. Field herping is a fantastic pastime but we should all ensure it is something that others can enjoy long into the future.


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## SlothHead (Sep 22, 2008)

saratoga said:


> I have seen a couple whilst looking under rocks and a friend has seen them crossing bushtracks at night(he had to scream at the driver to stop on one occassion......how would you feel if you were on a wildlife survey and you ran over an endangered species!). Basically they spend the winters on rocks and summers in the forests. If you do go looking for them please ensure any rocks are placed back exactly how you find them.....they have already suffered enormously from people smashing up sites and from the bushrock collectors. Someone is actually trialling placing artifially made rocks back into sites that have been stripped by bushrock collectors in the hope of stabilising Broad head populations. I'm not sure if they are active by day although I've heard reports of people seeing them basking next to crevices(I saw a Stephens Banded doing this once). I think they do most of their thermoregulation by shuffling around under rocks and inside hollow branches to remain at a preferred temperature.
> 
> Nephurus.....personally I DESPISE the term "flipping". I know it is well entrenched on American herpsites...but to me it invokes a completely carefree attitude to rolling rocks over with disregard to how they are replaced, if at all. I am sure you didn't mean it that way.
> 
> ...




Totally agree, i wrote an ecology research paper on this exact topic. Research data was only from the Katoomba/ Blue Mountains area of their range but certainly painted a pretty grim picture. Actually also found a pretty large feline print while doing the field research, wonder if that has contributed to the "search for the Penrith Panther" drive of the premier :?


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

thanks guys, do you have any pictures. hopefully when I come down this summer I can get out for a bit of herping in a few of the national parks around. I can get my P's in a year and a half so I want to come down to sydney and do a fair bit of herping then, wouldnt mind seeing one, want to see one active though, so I dont have to disturb the habitat.


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## markars (Sep 22, 2008)

I have seen quite a few little broardies, but all while specifically looking for them. I was doing a reasearch paper on them- I found the first one after 2 hours of looking, the next one took about 50 hours, spread over three weeks solid searching.I ended up seeing about twelve in total, however i suspect that i caught two of them twice( on different occasions)
They are still, relativly easy to find in the bombing range adjacent to heathcote national park, but it is a 12 km walk to the ridge i have seen them on.

* note- i completed this research project between 1994 and 1996, and haven't returned to look for them since about 2000. There have been several significant bushfires in the region and the herp scene has grown alot in that time, and i believe the sydney numbers suffered a severe drop, prior to the licence amnesty as people stocked up on wild caught animals of hard to get species.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

you shouldnt put the location on here as plenty of people see this thread


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## JasonL (Sep 22, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> you shouldnt put the location on here as plenty of people see this thread



Most people know they are there, and those who have no idea still wouldn't be able to find them. NPWS have even put up signs at some locations to "protect them" , well from the honest people anyway......


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## MrBredli (Sep 22, 2008)

markars said:


> ... and i believe the sydney numbers suffered a severe drop, prior to the licence amnesty as people stocked up on wild caught animals of hard to get species.


 
Not sure just how true that is as there wasn't all that many of them declared during the amnesty as far as i'm aware, off the top of my head i think it was 12, don't quote me on it though.

I know a lot of damage was done to their habitat around the time though, particularly up near Lithgow, as Taronga Zoo was collecting them around the same time for a breeding program and even hundreds of metres off the tracks, almost every rock had been turned and many of them had been broken.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

have you ever seen one JasonL? signs wouldnt really stop people getting in would they?


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

MrBredli said:


> Not sure just how true that is. There wasn't all that many of them declared during the amnesty as far as i'm aware, off the top of my head i think it was 12, don't quote me on it though.


 
howcome hardly any people keep them now, yet lots of people got them when the amnesty was declared? have they just died out in captivity or what, on the lsit of species kept in nsw it said only 3 people where keeping them in NSW


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## MrBredli (Sep 22, 2008)

That's what i mean, i don't think there were that many declared to begin with. No doubt people were out there trying to find them, and doing a lot of damage at the same time, but it would seem that they just didn't find that many of them, or they just weren't declared for some reason.


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## JasonL (Sep 22, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> have you ever seen one JasonL? signs wouldnt really stop people getting in would they?



Signs won't stop people who want to collect them no, they also have cameras set up so that might hinder some...., I have never seen wild broadheads, I know where they are, but I don't like lifting rocks to find herps, I'm sick of seeing this......... I have seen a few captive ones, they pretty boring snakes really, over-rated because of their rarity.


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## markars (Sep 22, 2008)

the bombing range and heathcote national park are massive, and i searched a hell of a lot of the areas around the edges without even seeing a reptile of note, let alone a broardie. Anyone who would be keen enough to walk intoo the guts of this park to pinch one, would probably be smart enough to know they are there anyway. and i am confident that they are safe with in these areas.

I believe that they are naturally an "uncommon" snake, meaning that they are rarely seen. I think they are still in reasonable numbers where they do exist, and that the reason they are "endangered" is due to the fact that their excusive habitat, and restricted range is in most densly populated and fastest growing area in australia. I think they are endangered only because their habitat is endangered.


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## JasonL (Sep 22, 2008)

If you look into the archives, they were as common as garden skinks in some areas only 100 years ago.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

I heard about the fiberglass rocks, would the snakes actually use them because they would not be able to keep the temperature right under them and stuff, they would still be common up in the blue mountains wouldnt they as there are huge amounts of area people dont go to


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## serpenttongue (Sep 22, 2008)

I saw and photographed one basking on the edge of a crevice around 11am during summer several years ago. I'd post a pic but i have reached my limit of pics that i can post. I can email it to anyone who wants to see it.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

can u email it to me? [email protected]

thanks


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## serpenttongue (Sep 22, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> howcome hardly any people keep them now, yet lots of people got them when the amnesty was declared? have they just died out in captivity or what, on the lsit of species kept in nsw it said only 3 people where keeping them in NSW


 
Perhaps wild ones brought into captivity are hard to get feeding or weaned onto rodents, and as a result they have died????


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## jase75 (Sep 22, 2008)

Iv heard of 2 being found not far from Bathurst, about 25km north, 1 was DOR. Would love to see 1 in the wild.


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## serpenttongue (Sep 22, 2008)

ryanharvey1993 said:


> can u email it to me? [email protected]
> 
> thanks


 
I'll do it tomorrow.


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## jase75 (Sep 22, 2008)

Id love to see it Serpenttongue- [email protected] thanks.


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## markars (Sep 22, 2008)

> I know where they are, but I don't like lifting rocks to find herps, I'm sick of seeing this.........


 
I hate seeing this as well. I used to visit flat rock creek with in the royal national park on a regular basis for years. The top of the flat hills were covered in large slabs of exfoliated sandstone and large hollows filled with leaf litter where the winds had trapped them , there was an abundance of geckos and skinks all over the rocks, and consequently post christmas every year it was a haven for newly hatched snakes and small elapids that could easily be seen without flipping rocks at both night and day.
15 years later there is not a rock bigger than a pebble and also no leaf litter deposits as they have all been raked out( i have even found a rake tied to a tree by the rapist ready for the next mission) and i have not found a gecko or snake there for ages.
I seem to spend most of my feild herping time these days flipping rocks- back into thier original positions after some arehole has left them before me. I have even found the large crevices on the roof of caves and overhangs that have been "pinch bared" off and left on the ground.

The attitudes of the people who are obviously visiting an area because they enjoy it, yet they do not care enough to maintain it or respect it is mystifing and unfathomable. They must lack the intelligence to realise that if they break it, they will not be able to visit it again?????


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## ryanharvey1993 (Sep 22, 2008)

it sucks what people have done to some places like that, lane cove national park being so small has been totally destroyed, went in there last time I was at sydney and there where flipped and smashed rocks everywhere there


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## markars (Sep 22, 2008)

> If you look into the archives, they were as common as garden skinks in some areas only 100 years ago


 
Thats because sydney was all weathered sandstone and skinks prior to our arrival, unfortuately sanstone was the first thing mined for roads, houses buildings, and the strong hold of their ranges was the very area we settled, so naturally they were commonly encountered as we were clearing the sandstone for our use. and they were unable to continue living as we removed their habitiat.
The less specialised animals were able to adapt to our urbanised environment, but they were not able to.


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## markars (Sep 22, 2008)

I found this quote in a thread on the topic that i found down the bottom of this page.



> "H. bungaroides was stable over 1992-1996, but declined dramatically in 1997, coincident with evidence of illegal collecting, possibly stimulated by a government amnesty that allowed pet owners to obtain permits for illegally held reptiles. Survivorship analyses revealed that 85% of adult females disappeared from the population in 1997. There was no such effect on male survivorship, suggesting that snake collectors selectively removed adult females..."


The thread was


> Broad Headed Snakes NephrurusAustralian Snakes2207-Jul-05 12:51 AM


 
I think that i have read the same information as what prompted nephrurus to create this thread( as i do not recall ever having seen this thread.).

As i recall from the amnesty days, people that i knew were all a bit sketchy about declaring their reptiles as there was not a lot of trust about with the authorities. This may account for the fact that not all that were captured were declared.


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## natrix (Sep 22, 2008)

I've seen one in the Syd suburb of warriewood right around this time last year.
It was sitting on rocks and seemed to be getting the last of the late afternoon sun.


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## dansocks (Nov 29, 2008)

Have found 1 under sanstone rock Wedderburn N.S.W. unfortunately had no time for photos


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## zulu (Nov 29, 2008)

*re broad*



MrBredli said:


> That's what i mean, i don't think there were that many declared to begin with. No doubt people were out there trying to find them, and doing a lot of damage at the same time, but it would seem that they just didn't find that many of them, or they just weren't declared for some reason.


There was quite a few collected at the time Mr Bredli,its just that some choose to release them and some dont,simple as that.I know of at least 6 adults that were declared that came from the southern populations by friends,one pair of adults died on the way to the vet to get microchipped what a waste.There is areas where there is substantial populations and they were collected for quite some years and they was recorded and released mostly,a few were kept occasionally,that was in the late 60s and early 70s.Ide say it would be Richard Wells who passed on some imformation to NPWS and the universities who did several surveys and studies like that by WEB and Shine on those populations.I asked one bloke how he found his in the amnesty and he said he bought a book at NPWS which he showed me,and it had all the locations on it,thats what happens when the imformation is revealed.
Populations are preyed upon by feral and domestic cats,espescially juveniles,bush rock removal is the main problem as the easy to get rocks are those on ridges and after theyve gone there is just little pieces of rocks left.They also hide in rock crevices and overhangs,ive seen one sunning itself by day in an elevated hollow log that had been graded up by a bulldozer on an adjoining farm,some areas ive collected them at around sydney have been filled in and collierys built there.


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## jamgo (Nov 29, 2008)

*an old pic of one*


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## jamgo (Nov 29, 2008)

I used to come across alot of them in winter normally when i lived in sydney.


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## scam7278 (Nov 29, 2008)

heres a couple from a mate at the Uni found in a Blue mountains back yard


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## BlindSnake (Nov 29, 2008)

serpenttongue said:


> Perhaps wild ones brought into captivity are hard to get feeding or weaned onto rodents, and as a result they have died????


 

I know of a few in captivity, and have had the privelidge of seeing captive born babies that are thriving.

I think maybe the owners are not the sort to frequent these forums, or blab to everyone about it.. 

I cant remember who it was that said they are boring and over rated, but I disagree..
They are magic little snakes, and I have a real soft spot for them.
Id take one over a red belly, taipan, brown or mulga anyday!


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## matty-jungle (Aug 29, 2011)

when it gets a bit warmer i am going to look at wedderburn hopefully i find one, considering it not far from where i live at all.


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## HoffOff (Aug 31, 2011)

seriously?


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## longqi (Aug 31, 2011)

Used to be plenty on the South side of the Hawksberry River
Very deep crevices in the cliffs protect them pretty well there
Get good sun and not that easy to access without abseiling


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## jack (Aug 31, 2011)

abseiling is indeed the key. i am beginning to suspect the animals found on the cliff edges are just the tip of the population iceberg, at least in the budawangs.
the climbing ability of these elapids is truly remarkable to watch


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## longqi (Aug 31, 2011)

jack said:


> abseiling is indeed the key. i am beginning to suspect the animals found on the cliff edges are just the tip of the population iceberg, at least in the budawangs.
> the climbing ability of these elapids is truly remarkable to watch



There are a lot of places cats cant get to
Where there are lots of birds nests on cliffs there aren't many cats
Those places are worth a gander
North or facing with lots of nooks and crannies and sun

I will never forget walking into a man called Erics house as he was the local expert
had a funny looking diamond python wrapped round my arm
"For gods sake Pete, Just put it down gently and walk away fast"


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## discountreptile (Aug 31, 2011)

Talking about climbing ability, this is a shere cliff face which is wet.

I have found a couple down canyons id say they love frogs and can handle the cold very well.

Abseiling is the key.


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## jack (Aug 31, 2011)

what a great shot, and exactly why i described their climbing as remarkable.
interesting you mention canyons, i met someone who actually refers to them as "canyon snakes", and there was a canyoner hospitalised by one earlier this year. 
do you know the dates when you saw them? i assume it was in hot weather?
your frogs idea is also very interesting.


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## saratoga (Aug 31, 2011)

That climbing photo is terrific... a wet vertical wall and it started the climb in water!

One of the more commonly seen snakes in canyons.


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## longqi (Aug 31, 2011)

Thats really interesting
Most canyons are freezing cold especially in the Blue Mountains area
We used to find ours in warm areas with direct sun access


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## jack (Aug 31, 2011)

Fortress Creek Canyon - YouTube
at 59 seconds in

Canyon Exploration - Boxing Day 2010 - YouTube
at 3.55

Claustral Canyon - Part 2 - YouTube
at 2.14


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## Sock Puppet (Aug 31, 2011)

Great pic discountreptiles, & cracking vids Jack. They are great looking little things.
Very interesting about them being down canyons!


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## discountreptile (Sep 1, 2011)

Yes Jack, 
It was a few years ago now they were photographed and it was in summer time.

Temps outside the canyon were mid 30's and the water temps were 10 to 12.

Can't say which canyon for the obvious but seen them on seperate occations so hopefully they are multiplying.


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