# Position of heat mat on plastic tub for GTP



## MattPat (Oct 16, 2019)

I'm setting up a GTP plastic tub enclosure and am wondering where to place the heat mat...
Under the tub?
Inside on the floor?
On the side?
On the inside of the lid?

The tub is about 50L in size
The GTP is just under a year old.
I have a thermostat that I'll use for it

If there is a more suitable way to heat ot please feel free to recommend.

Thanks


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## Sdaji (Oct 17, 2019)

Insufficient information to answer your question.

To give you some idea, I've kept Chondros without any form of supplemental heating (in the tropics) but you're going to use completely different methods in my home town of Melbourne. To some extent it depends on the type of Chondro. Highlands forms want a cooler temperature, north west forms are sensitive, requiring very stable temperatures, southern forms are a bit more forgiving. You can Get very different results using the same tub and same heat source by changing the type of ventilation. In cool climates heat panels (which you can make yourself using heat cords) work well, or you can improvise with heat mats. Chondros are an unusual case and getting it right requires consideration of all the variables.


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## MattPat (Oct 17, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Insufficient information to answer your question.
> 
> To give you some idea, I've kept Chondros without any form of supplemental heating (in the tropics) but you're going to use completely different methods in my home town of Melbourne. To some extent it depends on the type of Chondro. Highlands forms want a cooler temperature, north west forms are sensitive, requiring very stable temperatures, southern forms are a bit more forgiving. You can Get very different results using the same tub and same heat source by changing the type of ventilation. In cool climates heat panels (which you can make yourself using heat cords) work well, or you can improvise with heat mats. Chondros are an unusual case and getting it right requires consideration of all the variables.



Hi mate it's an Aussie type and I live in Sydney if that helps?


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## pythoninfinite (Oct 17, 2019)

Here are some of the things we discussed Matt... 

Perch holders made from 90 degree plastic angle from Bunnings
Adhesive aluminium tape to cover heat cord (50W) and spread heat evenly
Boxed tub allows lidless slide-out for easy feeding & cleaning
Same for this year's hatchies (sorry, I took the photo before cleaning, animals are only 2 weeks old...)
Home-made heat panel from 50W heat cord woven into 25x25mm welded mesh. Much cheaper than commercial panel and better because it doesn't have a very hot metal face. Covered in shade cloth. Probably something like Sdaji suggested ...





















[doublepost=1571276875,1571276649][/doublepost]Meant to say note the location of the thermostat probe - close to the height of the nearest perch, same in the yearling tub shown below.


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## nuttylizardguy (Oct 17, 2019)

Get hold of some suitable sized ceramic wall or floor tiles ( bigger than the heatpad ) .
Make a tile sandwich , pad in the middle.
Cloth tape the edges to hold it all together.
cloth tape to hold the thermostat probe to middle of top of tile sandwich.
place in tub on bottom , cables just dangling over edge , set thermostat , lid on.

Works fine for skinks and dragons, so should be OK for a snake.


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## GBWhite (Oct 17, 2019)

Follow Jamie's advice and you can't go wrong he knows what he's talking about.


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## pythoninfinite (Oct 17, 2019)

nuttylizardguy said:


> Get hold of some suitable sized ceramic wall or floor tiles ( bigger than the heatpad ) .
> Make a tile sandwich , pad in the middle.
> Cloth tape the edges to hold it all together.
> cloth tape to hold the thermostat probe to middle of top of tile sandwich.
> ...



A couple of things... NEVER use adhesive tape inside a snake enclosure - cloth or otherwise. If the adhesive side becomes exposed for any reason (and it may just be because the heat in the tile softens the adhesive for example) your snake's skin will stick to it like glue - it may seriously injure or kill the snake. Secondly, this heated tile may work on the floor of the enclosure for species which bask on warm rocks, or which like belly heat, such as Carpets, Antaresias or Aspidites, but it will be totally unsuitable for a GTP which needs radiated heat up near the perches it uses. The reason my younger snakes are OK with bottom heat in their tubs is because the tubs don't have the ability to lose heat quickly because they are enclosed in the melamine box (except the front of course). This keeps much of the heat inside, and it gravitates to the top of the tubs by convection, hence having the thermostat probe on the perch so that temperature is maintained at the places where the snakes spend most of their time.

Jamie


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## MattPat (Oct 17, 2019)

Thanks everyone for your input.

At home I'm testing my current set up (before the GTP arrives) to see if it produces enough heat.

The current set up is a 35 litre plastic box with an Exo Terra heat mat stuck to the underside (I.e. outside) of the floor, with a thermostat probe on the perch directly above the heat mat.

Not sure if it will produce enough heat but so far the signs are promising


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## Sdaji (Oct 18, 2019)

Some good advice here. And yep, that improvised heat panel using a heat cord is more or less what I was talking about. Similar to what I'd produce and will function the same. He provided a picture so use his design. +1 to everything else he said too, especially never, ever, ever using tape inside a snake enclosure, especially not ever.


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## MattPat (Oct 18, 2019)

Exo Terra was a fail. Didn't get to more than 24 degrees overnight, with the aim of it reaching 29.

So I'm trying out a bigger heat mat today.

What are your thoughts on putting some ventilation holes on the bottom of the tub, to let the hot air go up through the tub?


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## Herpetology (Oct 18, 2019)

What about daytime temps


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## MattPat (Oct 18, 2019)

Herptology said:


> What about daytime temps



Sorry for the confusion - I had the thermostat on 29 degrees last night just to test it out (because 29 would be the normal day time temp)


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## pythoninfinite (Oct 18, 2019)

MattPat said:


> Exo Terra was a fail. Didn't get to more than 24 degrees overnight, with the aim of it reaching 29.
> 
> So I'm trying out a bigger heat mat today.
> 
> What are your thoughts on putting some ventilation holes on the bottom of the tub, to let the hot air go up through the tub?



Depending on the height of your enclosure, you will probably need to place your heat source above to perches if you want to view your animal. My yearling tubs work on bottom heat because they are fully enclosed in a melamine/particleboard box, except for access from the front - the rear of this box structure traps the heat at the back of the tubs. If you try to provide heat from the bottom in a structure that can radiate heat readily, you will need so much heat that the bottom will become dangerously hot. I have made heat panels for all sizes of enclosures, and have used cords from 25W and more depending on the size of the enclosure. Heat mats are also potentially very dangerous as a fire risk if you try to squeeze too much heat out of them - I have seen even 5W heat mats scorch a table top when not used properly.

Here's a photo of a two year-old GTP in an 80 x 45 x 45 enclosure with a 50W heat cord home made panel. I could probably get away with a 25W cord, but this was one of my first GTP enclosures so it is a bit of overkill, but thermostatically controlled. This works because the melamine is a reasonably good insulator, if you're using a thin plastic tub or glass enclosure, you'll need to be sure you have good ventilation and have it stabilised for a few days before you get your snake. You don't want to be experimenting with the enclosure temps after the snake arrives.

Once again, the snake is due to shed in the next day or two, so I have been wetting the paper substrate so it looks stained... The plant looks a bit rough too...


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## Sdaji (Oct 18, 2019)

Pythoninfinite is saying most of what I would before I get to it. Good advice, +1 again.

I'd add that heat mats probably aren't the best option for Chondros, neither are glass enclosures unless you're in the tropics or a heated room (you said a plastic tub then Exo Terra? Maybe I'm missing something, I'm not too familiar with commercial units).

I'm not a fan at all.of ceramic heat emitters but if ever I was going to use one it would likely be for a Chondro. Pythoninfinite's home made heat panel is a good design to copy, or if you don't want a DIY job you can buy a commercial unit.

Moat snakes spend most of their time on the ground and most of the rest spend a fair bit of time on the ground. Floor heat usually works well. Chondros are unusual in several ways. If you do use floor heat for Chondros make sure the cage floor is always wet or you're almost guaranteeing problems for a Chondro. I would never use floor heat as the primary heat source for Chondros, unless it was in a very well insulated tub, but even then I probably wouldn't do it. The closest I'd come would be keeping them in racks where the floor heat from the tub above also provided heat, so effectively they also had overhead heat.


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## MattPat (Oct 18, 2019)

Got a heat cord today. Problem solved! Gets to 29 degrees easily!


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## Sdaji (Oct 18, 2019)

MattPat said:


> Got a heat cord today. Problem solved! Gets to 29 degrees easily!



Keep in mind that the heat/temperature which might keep a dragon happy (radiant heat) may not be the same as the contact/conductive heat which would keep most snakes happy, which is different again from the ambient heat which a Chondro needs. Hopefully you have it sorted. Keep us updated with the results over the next year


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## MattPat (Oct 18, 2019)

Sdaji said:


> Keep in mind that the heat/temperature which might keep a dragon happy (radiant heat) may not be the same as the contact/conductive heat which would keep most snakes happy, which is different again from the ambient heat which a Chondro needs. Hopefully you have it sorted. Keep us updated with the results over the next year



Yeah I have the thermostat probe on the highest perch, which is also the perch closest to the heat source, so it should be measuring ambient heat, not contact heat


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