# what do you feed your rodent's?



## Blake182 (Jun 22, 2013)

Hey guy’s
I was just wondering what you all your rats and mice!
Well I feed my rats on bio mare and vegies whenever
and for mice there on bio mare as well! So tell us what you feed them!

Thanks


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## andynic07 (Jun 22, 2013)

I do the same.


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## Shotta (Jun 22, 2013)

i give them a mix i use various seed and grains, fish food pellets, dog biscuits,dried fruit,nuts,vitamins/mineral block things,and heaps of different veggies, my rats go through heaps of food so far i go through roughly 2-3 kilos a week!! and its only a small colony...


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## andynic07 (Jun 22, 2013)

Nilesh said:


> i give them a mix i use various seed and grains, fish food pellets, dog biscuits,dried fruit,nuts,vitamins/mineral block things,and heaps of different veggies, my rats go through heaps of food so far i go through roughly 2-3 kilos a week!! and its only a small colony...


I used to use a good quality (diet science) dog biscuit for my rats and was warned away from it by Wokka who breeds rats on a large scale due the the 15% fat content and high protein content and that is why I now feed biomare, cheaper and lower fat. He has also made the comment about the amount of goodness that they receive out of feed and if you are feeding them a lot of food them they will be doing a lot of pooing which means more clean up, apparently if you feed them a good combination food that provides what they need they will not eat as much food and therefore poo less.


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## Shotta (Jun 22, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I used to use a good quality (diet science) dog biscuit for my rats and was warned away from it by Wokka who breeds rats on a large scale due the the 15% fat content and high protein content and that is why I now feed biomare, cheaper and lower fat. He has also made the comment about the amount of goodness that they receive out of feed and if you are feeding them a lot of food them they will be doing a lot of pooing which means more clean up, apparently if you feed them a good combination food that provides what they need they will not eat as much food and therefore poo less.



lol well that makes sense, i might have to cut down on the proteins/fats and give them something leaner


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## BIGBANG (Jun 22, 2013)

I feed mine laukie mill mice and rat food, apparently designed by rodent breeders for the reptile trade, as well I throw in a bowl of defrosted frozen mixed veggies, my babies are between 45-50 gm at 3.5 weeks when I wean them


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## ingie (Jun 22, 2013)

You just can't beat rodent cubes that are made specifically for a complete rat and mouse diet. The best recipes have been made by mills, in conjunction with labs who need recipes for keeping rats in prime health with optimum condition, for breeding and general life. It is so much easier to just feed them that, than go to all the other bother. I used to feed biomare and scraps. I noticed a huge increase in condition on my rats when I swapped food. Believe it or not, fresh fruit and veg would not come up often for a wild rat, and are not that high in calories, and actually tend to dilute the effect of a good staple pellet. You would be better off choosing a brand like Cummins or Lauke Mills, and just giving a little bit of scraps as a treat. 

Pet shop mixes are terrible for rat health, and are largely indigestible. Avoid anything with lots of green chaff looking stuff in it - it's only use will be substrate! If you do a little experiment with your own rats and split a few litters up on diets of lab blockset shop and random mixes:biomare and scraps, you would be surprised by the differences. I believe people think their rats are doing really well already on their current diet, but don't realise what they could be like, and how quickly they would grow etc.


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## Blake182 (Jun 22, 2013)

yeah thanks i made this so every one could get difrent opinions! 
where would i be able to find rodent cubes!


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## Ramsayi (Jun 22, 2013)

Have looked at biomare vs rat + mouse cubes and found that biomare contains a lot more salt.Not sure it is a problem or not though.


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## andynic07 (Jun 22, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> Have looked at biomare vs rat + mouse cubes and found that biomare contains a lot more salt.Not sure it is a problem or not though.


Aren't they both fairly low in salt? 2.7 g/kg for rat cubes and 5.8g/kg for bio mare , I know that bio mare is over double but I would think that 5.8g/kg is still fairly low.


Edit* Sorry made a mistake, it looks like McManus rat cubes are 7.3g/kg and not 2.7g/kg

Edit 2* Made another mistake , bio mare is n14g/kg


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## ingie (Jun 22, 2013)

Well more salt means more drinking, more filling up water bottles, more peeing, and more changing substrate. I would prefer less salt 

You can find rodent cubes at a lot of produce stores. You can email Cummins and Lauke mills, to find a local supplier, or it may be listed somewhere on the net. Not all cubes are made equally though, so I have heard that Barastock sucks. Apparently Norco/Goldmix is good, Cummins (Mcmannus rodent cubes is the other name for that brand), and Lauke mills rodent pellets, are the best. I personally buy 1000kg of Cummins straight from the mill so I can get it at wholesale price, and pre sell half of it to friends.


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## andynic07 (Jun 22, 2013)

ingie said:


> Well more salt means more drinking, more filling up water bottles, more peeing, and more changing substrate. I would prefer less salt
> 
> You can find rodent cubes at a lot of produce stores. You can email Cummins and Lauke mills, to find a local supplier, or it may be listed somewhere on the net. Not all cubes are made equally though, so I have heard that Barastock sucks. Apparently Norco/Goldmix is good, Cummins (Mcmannus rodent cubes is the other name for that brand), and Lauke mills rodent pellets, are the best. I personally buy 1000kg of Cummins straight from the mill so I can get it at wholesale price, and pre sell half of it to friends.


What is your take on protein percentage, I was told that the ideal percentage was 15% and anything over just means extra poo.


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## ingie (Jun 22, 2013)

I can't remember what my rodent cubes have, but I would assume whatever they have is ideal, seeing as it was made specifically for rodents and is known to be a quality brand. I have been told by a credible source, that the issue is not the percentages, but the ratio of the main things > protein:sugars:fats:fibre:salt etc. If the ratios are ideal then the rat eats minimal food and stays healthy. If the ratios are out of balance, the rat can never get what it needs and is eating more or less of the food than ideal, trying to make up for it. This is an issue, and is also why feeding mixes is an issue, as they just pick out the tasty things and are not getting a complete diet. Kind of like how if you have a table full of lollies, junk food and healthy meals, kids are going to choose what is yummy, not what is good for them long term.


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## andynic07 (Jun 22, 2013)

ingie said:


> I can't remember what my rodent cubes have, but I would assume whatever they have is ideal, seeing as it was made specifically for rodents and is known to be a quality brand. I have been told by a credible source, that the issue is not the percentages, but the ratio of the main things > protein:sugars:fats:fibre:salt etc. If the ratios are ideal then the rat eats minimal food and stays healthy. If the ratios are out of balance, the rat can never get what it needs and is eating more or less of the food than ideal, trying to make up for it. This is an issue, and is also why feeding mixes is an issue, as they just pick out the tasty things and are not getting a complete diet. Kind of like how if you have a table full of lollies, junk food and healthy meals, kids are going to choose what is yummy, not what is good for them long term.


Yeah I was also told similar about the ratios.


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## Ramsayi (Jun 22, 2013)

All I know is that biomare contains 1.4% salt and 15.8% protein Vs 0.3% and 18% in the pellets I use.


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## ingie (Jun 22, 2013)

Obviously wild rats take what they can get, but they don't have a very long life expectancy. What is ideal for a captive rodent pumping out babies and expected to have a relatively long life span, is not going to be what is viable for a wild rat. Although wild rats are apparently far healthier than domesticated rats, probably due to the various husbandry quirks that they endure, and indiscriminate breeding of ones with heritable ailments.


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## ingie (Jun 22, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> All I know is that biomare contains 1.4% salt and 15.8% protein Vs 0.3% and 18% in the pellets I use.



This is purely a stab in the dark, but I read that humans tend to want to consume the same volume of food every day, and if you normally eat a lot, but start drinking more water or having some soups etc, it makes you crave eating less, as you are meeting your volume quota. I wonder if that has anything to do with rats on biomare performing poorer, if the increased salt makes them drink more water, and eat less food than they would if there was less salt. For dogs with crappy dog food, they say that a dog will just eat twice as much cheap dog food as premium, because there are less nutrients so it just passes all the filler and craves more food. I wonder if they would eat less too, if the cheap food had more salt in it. It probably has less salt in it, so that the dogs are wanting to eat even more of it, and the customers spend even more money on food and end up with fat dogs. *it is late and my brain is going off on tangents*


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## wokka (Jun 23, 2013)

First you need to decide how to judge "best", Do you mean best food conversion?- kg feed in for kg rodent produced; or are you chasing quickest growth for age irrespective of food consumed? Is it what food suits you feed system or purly dollars?After you have decided what you are chasing you will probably find that different classes of animals require different nutrition. eg a lactating mother would require about 4 times the energy of a mature male.
There is no one size fits all answer but i consistantly see good quality balanced diets being diluted with junk food treats, as Ingie has mentioned.
I dont think biomare is always the best feed as it depending what best means. It is readily available , reasonably priced, suits most feeding systems with its large pellet size and has a reasonable nutritional balance.
We use a tonne a week, but feed only represents about 10% of our cost base . Our killer is labour so we concentrate on labour efficency,which for most rodent keepers is not a concern.


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## BIGBANG (Jun 23, 2013)

I weighed some of my larger rodents that I grow out to feed my larger snakes, rats are 8 weeks old and they are 150-160 gm and they are fed purely on laukie mills cubes. If you have a stock feed place near you you will be able to get it, nearly all stock feed places sell either "homelay" chook pellets or "uncle Albers " or " great barko" dog food, all these are made by laukie mills and they will be able to get the rodent pellets in, you may just have to wait till they do their next order with them


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## andynic07 (Jun 23, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> I weighed some of my larger rodents that I grow out to feed my larger snakes, rats are 8 weeks old and they are 150-160 gm and they are fed purely on laukie mills cubes. If you have a stock feed place near you you will be able to get it, nearly all stock feed places sell either "homelay" chook pellets or "uncle Albers " or " great barko" dog food, all these are made by laukie mills and they will be able to get the rodent pellets in, you may just have to wait till they do their next order with them


What price are the cubes that you use? I get biomare in a 25kg bag for $30, I am on my first bag at the moment so I can't comment on how long it lasts yet or growth rates yet.


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## BIGBANG (Jun 23, 2013)

As I live in the middle of nowhere things are a bit dearer up here cos of freight costs and just because they think they can charge you more, but I pay $33 a 20 kg bag I buy a few at a time. I am looking into getting it elsewhere but when ya add travel costs to get it its just as expensive. Same reason I started breeding rats, might have been paying 3-4 bucks a rat but it was costing me 100 bucks in fuel to go get them


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## andynic07 (Jun 23, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> As I live in the middle of nowhere things are a bit dearer up here cos of freight costs and just because they think they can charge you more, but I pay $33 a 20 kg bag I buy a few at a time. I am looking into getting it elsewhere but when ya add travel costs to get it its just as expensive. Same reason I started breeding rats, might have been paying 3-4 bucks a rat but it was costing me 100 bucks in fuel to go get them


Do you have a comparison for what biomare is worth in your area? 

Edit* I just looked up the cubes and I can get them for $29 for a 20 kg bag.


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## bigguy (Jun 23, 2013)

Just about every university and animal houses in Australia use the best rodent food in the country Gordons. These cubes are the hardest on the market and do not crumble to pieces or powder when chewed on. The result they last 2 to 3 times as long then most other cubes. As for their nutritional value, again probably the best recipe in the country. Most breeders state they have never seen young rodents grow as fast when eating this food. Also, being so hard, if you buy 20kg's, you get 20kg's of cubes and not kilos of powder.


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## andynic07 (Jun 23, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> I feed mine laukie mill mice and rat food, apparently designed by rodent breeders for the reptile trade, as well I throw in a bowl of defrosted frozen mixed veggies, my babies are between 45-50 gm at 3.5 weeks when I wean them


I just weighed some of my 4week old rats that I just removed from their mother yesterday and they weighed between 70-80 grams. They were on diet science dog biscuits available from birth( obviously not eating straight away) and biomare for this last week.


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## Jungletrans (Jun 23, 2013)

This is another one that comes down to choice . Just me personal so don't start but I don't keep my rats in tubs [ or my snakes ] they are in an aviary so they can run around and climb , hide etc . I approach their food in the same way , a mix of cummins pellets , wild bird seed and thorough working horse mix . This costs $1 per kilo . Add to that any leftover bread , vegies and table scraps and they have an interesting , healthy and cheap diet . Not scientific but not a feed lot either .


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## BIGBANG (Jun 23, 2013)

andynic07 said:


> I just weighed some of my 4week old rats that I just removed from their mother yesterday and they weighed between 70-80 grams. They were on diet science dog biscuits available from birth( obviously not eating straight away) and biomare for this last week.


 that's not bad going, I only feed mine the one cube and lactating mothers get a bowl of veg every now and then, what size litters are ya having? And how old are ya breeding females? I have a young batch at the moment this lot are only on their 3rd litters and the are averaging 10+ a litter. I have just come back from 2 1/2 weeks holidays an had a accident in one of the tubs where the drinker leaked and soaked the substrate and killed all but 3 out of 2 litters so now I have 2 lactating females feeding the 3 pups they should grow pretty fast


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## wokka (Jun 23, 2013)

I think the genetic background of the rats will effect the weight for age more than the food in younger animals. Our weight are about the same as andynics but our females are small by some standards with an average of only 350-450 grams depending upon stage of pregnancy. Ive seen jumbo rats that go 700 to 1000 grams but never disected them to see just how much fat they carry.


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## andynic07 (Jun 23, 2013)

BIGBANG said:


> that's not bad going, I only feed mine the one cube and lactating mothers get a bowl of veg every now and then, what size litters are ya having? And how old are ya breeding females? I have a young batch at the moment this lot are only on their 3rd litters and the are averaging 10+ a litter. I have just come back from 2 1/2 weeks holidays an had a accident in one of the tubs where the drinker leaked and soaked the substrate and killed all but 3 out of 2 litters so now I have 2 lactating females feeding the 3 pups they should grow pretty fast


I have had really varied litters, my biggest being 15 which was no good for the mum, I had to take 5 off her and put with another mum. She ended up really skinny, I mostly breed once they reach about 160g. I bred one female at 100g and she only had 6 but lost a couple. I guess my average is about 10 as well but do not keep real good records, also my averages are from a small setup of three breeding females.


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## Blake182 (Jun 23, 2013)

has any one ever feed speedibeef??


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## wokka (Jun 24, 2013)

Blake182 said:


> has any one ever feed speedibeef??



Whats that?


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## Blake182 (Jun 24, 2013)

its got high protien and low salt ext ill try and and get a list off all the stuff thats in it


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## Shotta (Jun 24, 2013)

i think blake^ meant speedi beet? its a horse food? made from beet flakes


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## Grunter023 (Oct 15, 2013)

Has anyone used Ambos stockfeeds Supercool Horse pellets for their rats? I can get a 25kg bag at my local Co-op for $14.95 which makes it over $10 per bag cheaper than Biomare. Just wondering if it's as good as Biomare Horse cubes?


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## ingie (Oct 16, 2013)

Some of my lineages of rats get regularly over 600g. Just big rats. You can select for size just like you can select for anything else. If I am going to use them for food though I generally want to use these ones to cull at younger ages, as they have grown faster and used less food, so it is more efficient. I prefer to use a higher quality food and find other ways to be efficient with money, than skimp on the price of food/kg, and have less efficient growth and reproduction. My rats are much more healthy and efficient since getting off crappy biomare.


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## MyMitchie (Oct 16, 2013)

SpeediBeet needs to be soaked before fed as it swells ALOT. 

At the moment i'm feeding my rats the vetafarm pellets, a mix of fruit n veg which changes mix every month (which has at least 3 red veg and 3 green veg and a maximum of 3 fruit), soaked and sprouted seed, some wet cat food, a mix of seeds (quinoa, black chia, seasame seed, linseed and only those) then they get things like bones to chew on, dried fish and some porridge made with water in the mornings if they've been good!

Probably not the greatest diet ever but they love it.


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## chimerapro (Oct 16, 2013)

I use Aus Organics a certified organic rodent pellet and it does the job great and at $26.40(?)/25kg bag it's one of the cheapest on the market. To ad to this without using any chemicals, pesticides, antibiotics ect on my rodents I feel it makes them organic too which I would think makes my snake food organic  It is also all locally grown, milled and produced which is good too for supporting local Australian business's.


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## solar 17 (Oct 17, 2013)

l was given a book a few years back put out by a collective of (10) universities in America on Rodent keeping and it covers everything from food,housing,bedding,blood counts and even urine counts and it makes very interesting reading especially some of the tabulated information a couple of points become very clear after only a few pages and graphs; the "optimal" temperature is 73f/23c, salt 1% max. & protien 12-14% and one other point that l have followed is that most of them mix two rodent foods (specialized pellets/kibble) together to encourage variety and l have personally found this to work very well in fact interestingly enough the different ratios of food choice between enclosures. solar 17


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## wokka (Oct 17, 2013)

solar 17 said:


> l was given a book a few years back put out by a collective of (10) universities in America on Rodent keeping and it covers everything from food,housing,bedding,blood counts and even urine counts and it makes very interesting reading especially some of the tabulated information a couple of points become very clear after only a few pages and graphs; the "optimal" temperature is 73f/23c, salt 1% max. & protien 12-14% and one other point that l have followed is that most of them mix two rodent foods (specialized pellets/kibble) together to encourage variety and l have personally found this to work very well in fact interestingly enough the different ratios of food choice between enclosures. solar 17


 What do you define optimen performance as? This will determine the input perameters. I believe you probably require different nutritional perameters for optimen maintainence as compared to optimum growth. generally mammals require higher protein for growthe as opposed to mainatainence.


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