# luv this hybrid 75% diamond x jungle



## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)




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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)

*Stunning hybrid*

What do you think people ???


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)

*Here s a 50% diamond x jungle*


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## Mr.James (Mar 8, 2010)

1st pic - Looks just like a regular diamond intergrade....honest opinion, I don't think its anything special.

2nd pic - Is kinda cool, jungle with rosettes.


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)

Mr.Boyd said:


> 1st pic - Looks just like a regular diamond intergrade....honest opinion, I don't think its anything special.
> 
> 2nd pic - Is kinda cool, jungle with rosettes.


thats what i am saying not all hybrids are mongrols..


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)

*Red phase 25% diamondx 75% jungle*


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 8, 2010)

Gosh i would love to own a pure diamond..


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## shellfisch (Mar 8, 2010)

They are really quite pretty.

Although I personally don't like the idea of crosses.


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## Sel (Mar 8, 2010)

I do like the first pic, but sorry the 2nd one is ugly.


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## kupper (Mar 8, 2010)

Meh I think there great ........ So THERE!


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## sigridshurte (Mar 8, 2010)

i love the 2nd picture diamond 50% x jungle , i would buy him/her, it looks amazing


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## Chris1 (Mar 8, 2010)

theyre quite nice looking, but theyre still nice looking...!!!


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## FAY (Mar 8, 2010)

What is this red phase???
Is that bredli thrown in there as well?


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## Londos1990 (Mar 8, 2010)

FAY said:


> What is this red phase???
> Is that bredli thrown in there as well?


 

By the looks of it fay, id have to agree with bredlii being thrown in there


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## junglecarpet (Mar 8, 2010)

I can see the jungle in the head of the first pic... but I really like the second one, its gorgeous
I was just discussing the other day what would happen if my diamond and atherton mated, now I have an idea what they will look like if they ever accidentally get kinky


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## stuartandconnie (Mar 8, 2010)

*Nice*

I belive this is the way of the future


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

stuartandconnie said:


> I belive this is the way of the future


 

No l don't think this is the way of the future, lets try and protect our Australian Python's, by keeping them close to nature and pure as possible, so they to have a future to look forward to, and future generations of us humans can also get to see and enjoy what we all have in our life.

Thats my opinion.


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## shellfisch (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> No l don't think this is the way of the future, lets try and protect our Australian Python's, by keeping them close to nature and pure as possible, so they to have a future to look forward to, and future generations of us humans can also get to see and enjoy what we all have in our life.
> 
> Thats my opinion.



I agree


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## Fantazmic (Mar 8, 2010)

They are lovely snakes.... The trouble is when you cross an animal where do you go next when you breed again. Although I am new to snakes I am seeing the same issues that we have with dogs.... I breed staffordshire bill terriers. The crosses can be lovely and all that and if they are desexed and sold as pets.....trouble is these crossed puppies then get bred with something else again ....there is no simple answer but I think because of our experience with the dogs we are inclined to want to stick with pure bloodlines.....it's really hard as I don't want to be nasty about it just my opinion


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> I agree


 
lts good to see that someone like shellfisch agrees with me, and see's where l am coming from in this debate about cross breeding, from the way l see things here its all about money such as how can l make a profit or quick buck on the side, not for the love and passion as it use to be 1995 and beyond.


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## Miss_Kaos (Mar 8, 2010)

The 2nd one is amazing junglejaguar


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## BARRAMUNDI (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> lts good to see that someone like shellfisch agrees with me, and see's where l am coming from in this debate about cross breeding, from the way l see things here its all about money such as how can l make a profit or quick buck on the side, not for the love and passion as it use to be 1995 and beyond.


 
Why do people always think that hybrids are going to be worth big money. They are interesting to look at and some are pretty, but most at this stage are average.

It will be 2-4 generations before quality hybrids are produced. People who are prepared to put in the time to produce quality hybrids and cop the flaming in doing so, are in it for the love. Anyone prepared to put 5 or more years into breeding average hybrids and line breeding are doing it for the love. Their certainly not going to make any money getting to that point.


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## Khagan (Mar 8, 2010)

Although all nice looking, the 1st one just looks like an intergrade, and the 'red phase' will likely turn out looking nothing different. Same as some intergrades and coastals are born red and just turn out normal.

I don't mind hybrids, but if you just end up with something intergrade looking you might aswell just breed intergrades =p.


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

Here is some information in regards to inter-breeding wildlife including reptiles here in victoria, that l found in my document outlining the wildlife regulations 2002 regulatory impact statement.
ls says a person is not permitted to inter-breed wildlife that do not natually inter-breed in the wild, this discourages from artificially breeding different sub-species that do not normally inter-breed, the progeny of which may lead to gene pollution of wild populations of a given taxa.


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## nocturnal_pulse (Mar 8, 2010)

love the first and second great looking snakes...


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## antaresia_boy (Mar 8, 2010)

I haven't seen any really nice hybrids in a while... I have seen nice pure diamonds and pure jungles than the hybrids in this thread, so I don't see the point in muddying the line with things that would most like be sold as jungles. I guess it's a whole different thing in the UK though.


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## D3pro (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> No l don't think this is the way of the future, lets try and protect our Australian Python's, by keeping them close to nature and pure as possible, so they to have a future to look forward to, and future generations of us humans can also get to see and enjoy what we all have in our life.
> 
> Thats my opinion.



Morilla are naturally able to cross... Therefore if people want to make interesting crosses and perfect them, then shouldn't it be their choice? It does nothing bad to the environment and should be embraced. The reason the US has so many nice ball Pythons is because of cross breeding. Wait... the reason all the dog breeds exist is...... cross breeding! If it was up to true pure breeder, all we would have would be dingo's, wolfs etc. 

Also, we are selective breeding our pure breeds anyway, so were not getting anything like we would see in the wild. Have you ever seen a colony of hypo Bredli's in central Australia?

All the 'big' and experienced breeders know exactly that this is true, I wont name them or i'll get booted off. But I agree with them, when they say "i want to breed the pures, and the designers" 

Just cause people are experimenting with cross breeding Morillas does not mean the original species are going to be extinct from the face of the earth. In fact, there will always be "pure breeds".

Anyway, those crosses are awesome junglecarpet, Though I'm not the biggest fan of diamond crosses lol. I like the bredli X jungle tho, it looks Uber.


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## D3pro (Mar 8, 2010)

BARRAMUNDI said:


> Why do people always think that hybrids are going to be worth big money. They are interesting to look at and some are pretty, but most at this stage are average.
> 
> It will be 2-4 generations before quality hybrids are produced. People who are prepared to put in the time to produce quality hybrids and cop the flaming in doing so, are in it for the love. Anyone prepared to put 5 or more years into breeding average hybrids and line breeding are doing it for the love. Their certainly not going to make any money getting to that point.



Thats exactly right! Your not going to make the next big thing by breeding to random snakes, it takes years of breeding!

If i wanted to make a quick buck I would buy a pair of albino's and soak in the profits.


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## bump73 (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> ls says a person is not permitted to inter-breed wildlife that do not natually inter-breed in the wild, this discourages from artificially breeding different sub-species that do not normally inter-breed, the progeny of which may lead to *gene pollution of wild populations of a given taxa*.


 
I've said this before but in my opinion people who's snakes escape are potentially doing more damage to wild populations through gene pollution, yet there is rarely flaming of these people in the typical "Oh No my snake has escaped threads" . According to the above law we shouldn't be able to keep any wildlife that isn't native to the area which we live for fear of "gene pollution of wild populations"

Ben


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## Serpentor (Mar 8, 2010)

What's the point of crossing something if it doesn't look any different?


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## Southside Morelia (Mar 8, 2010)

LOL, I agree......can't wait for some stunning animals in the years to come. As Barramundi said, their very average ATM, but like the pure bred morphs that are selective bred for their traits, it will come.... Just enjoy the animals for what they are.....we all love snakes...so enjoy guys!!!...LOL
I don't think these are that special though....JMO 



BARRAMUNDI said:


> They are interesting to look at and some are pretty, but most at this stage are average.
> 
> It will be 2-4 generations before quality hybrids are produced. People who are prepared to put in the time to produce quality hybrids and cop the flaming in doing so, are in it for the love. Anyone prepared to put 5 or more years into breeding average hybrids and line breeding are doing it for the love. Their certainly not going to make any money getting to that point.


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

Serpentor said:


> What's the point of crossing something if it doesn't look any different?


 
l agree whats the point of cross-breeding if it doesn't look any different to the pure phase Carpet and Diamond Python's out in the wild.

l think its only the young herpers out there that are so keen to cross-breed our beautiful native Carpet & Diamond Python's, so they can look and feel good like a professional Herpetologist, and say look at me l have created something different that no-one else has ever done aren't l cool or good..

They will never ever get one cent out of my wallet cause l wont support them by purchasing their hypo's or crosse's when they try to sell any of their hatchlings or juveniles.

Least you cannot cross-breed a Olive Python cause there is only one sub-specie found in Pilbara and Gascoyne Regions of WA, that are not on licence and you cannot collect them from the wild on a take from the wild permit in WA, so how else will you get hold of one or two of the sub-specie Olive Python-Liasis Olivaceus Barroni, without taken them from the wild illegaly.

So l will just stick to my beautiful Olive Python's least l know l wont end up with either crosses or hypos.


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## jessb (Mar 8, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


>


 

There's no way that is "red phase" Diamond X jungle it DEFINITELY has plenty of Bredli in there.


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## unique (Mar 8, 2010)

They are only guessing that the animal is a
''50/50 jungle diamond'' they don't bloody 
know what it is ,that is the whole problem with
hybrids eventually you wont know what you have.


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## Retic (Mar 8, 2010)

Hypo's, you do realise a hypo is a naturally occurring pure mutation ?

"So l will just stick to my beautiful Olive Python's least l know l wont end up with either crosses or hypos."


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## Khagan (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> Least you cannot cross-breed a Olive Python



Don't be too sure =p there are some cross species, not just subspecies, pythons overseas .


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## Bushfire (Mar 8, 2010)

Im aware of at least five collections that have both subspecies of Olive Pythons in Eastern Australia.


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## blackcrystal22 (Mar 8, 2010)

D3pro said:


> Morilla are naturally able to cross... Therefore if people want to make interesting crosses and perfect them, then shouldn't it be their choice? It does nothing bad to the environment and should be embraced. The reason the US has so many nice ball Pythons is because of cross breeding. Wait... the reason all the dog breeds exist is...... cross breeding! If it was up to true pure breeder, all we would have would be dingo's, wolfs etc.
> 
> Also, we are selective breeding our pure breeds anyway, so were not getting anything like we would see in the wild. Have you ever seen a colony of hypo Bredli's in central Australia?
> 
> ...



I'm a little bit confused with what you're trying to say. Morphs in ball pythons are still 100% ball python. My pastel ball python is still a ball python. As I understood it, hybrids were crosses between different breeds or localities of species, not different genetics of the same species. 
So, are Jungles and Diamonds two morphologies in genetics? Or are they two different localities or species?
Breeding morphs together has no effect on the species (usually) unless they were planned to be released. Breeding different species can pose health issues and problems. 

Back to the original topic, I like the two patterns, but I personally prefer stripes myself.


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

blackcrystal22, Diamond and Jungle Carpet Python's are both sub-species that come from different localities here in Eastern Australia.

Bushfire, you say your aware of 5 collections that have access to the 2 sub-species of Olive Python, are you willing to proove that to me how they came about getting the Liasis Olivaceus Barroni legally on permit, if not then l say they may have taken them from the wild illegaly without a take from the wild permit in WA.


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## Rhysc (Mar 8, 2010)

Can't this girl show us some pics of snakes, without all of you starting what will eventually turn into an aggressive 7 page debate, that she never intended it to be?

Apart from that, hybrids, are going to become more popular, people will buy them, it is going to happen, just like you can insure that the same members of APS will always start on about how hybrids are going to kill every pure python in Australia, and not the idiotic keepers that may get their hands on them. A hybrid captive snake does not pose any harm to aussie wildlife, its the keepers that do, so how about you all go hunt them down instead of ruining every thread junglejaguar starts with your repetitive ranting.


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## Sdaji (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> So l will just stick to my beautiful Olive Python's least l know l wont end up with either crosses or hypos.



Olive Pythons have a lot of genetic variation too, it's just not displayed with obvious variation in colour and pattern like it is with Carpet Pythons. I find it puzzling that some people cringe at crossing a Jungle Carpet with a Diamond, yet are fine with crossing a Mt Isa Olive with a Katherine Olive because of ethical concerns. Not that I am saying their personal feelings are wrong, but I can't work out what their motives/ideals are.

I can't tell a Townsville Water Python from a Cairns Water Python, but I would much prefer a pure animal of either locality than a mixed QLD animal (but don't ask me to explain it, because I can't provide a reasonable explanation! I just want it that way!). If I liked Olives I would be equally particular.

Hypo bredli are a normal thing found in the wild by the way.


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## Zoltag (Mar 8, 2010)

blackcrystal22 said:


> I'm a little bit confused with what you're trying to say. Morphs in ball pythons are still 100% ball python. My pastel ball python is still a ball python. As I understood it, hybrids were crosses between different breeds or localities of species, not different genetics of the same species.
> So, are Jungles and Diamonds two morphologies in genetics? Or are they two different localities or species?
> Breeding morphs together has no effect on the species (usually) unless they were planned to be released. Breeding different species can pose health issues and problems.
> 
> Back to the original topic, I like the two patterns, but I personally prefer stripes myself.



Ball pythons do not have officially recognised sub-species.

If you were to recognise Australian pythons only down to species level (as per ball pythons), then all Diamond x carpet or carpet x other carpet would simply be recognised as Morelia Spilota, everyone would be happy that the animals are pure M. Spilota (as they are) and there would be as much (or even more) variation than you see in Ball Pythons.


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## Sdaji (Mar 8, 2010)

Rhysc said:


> Can't this girl show us some pics of snakes, without all of you starting what will eventually turn into an aggressive 7 page debate, that she never intended it to be?



Of course not! This is the internet and emotional reptile keepers you're talking about!


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## Zoltag (Mar 8, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> ...I can't work out what their motives/ideals are.



Everyone wants to discover a new species and that is easiest done when the genetic differences are colouring / patterning or a difference in the number of scales (but still plenty of overlap, mind you, so it is debatable whether there really is a difference).

Most of the world doesnt recognise sub-species or (worse still), locality specific variations of sub-species.


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## Mitch1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Love The Look Of That Second one.


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> Olive Pythons have a lot of genetic variation too, it's just not displayed with obvious variation in colour and pattern like it is with Carpet Pythons. I find it puzzling that some people cringe at crossing a Jungle Carpet with a Diamond, yet are fine with crossing a Mt Isa Olive with a Katherine Olive because of ethical concerns. Not that I am saying their personal feelings are wrong, but I can't work out what their motives/ideals are.
> 
> I can't tell a Townsville Water Python from a Cairns Water Python, but I would much prefer a pure animal of either locality than a mixed QLD animal (but don't ask me to explain it, because I can't provide a reasonable explanation! I just want it that way!). If I liked Olives I would be equally particular.
> 
> Hypo bredli are a normal thing found in the wild by the way.


 
Sdaji, l use to have Olive Python's here in my home and let me tell you they all came from Darwin Northern Territory, and one pair also came from Katherine from Reedy's Reptile's, and they never ever got to breed with my Darwin phase Olive Python's, least none of what l kept ever came from Mt Isa QLD, so least what l kept all came from the same state Northern Territory, Darwin & Katherine are not far apart.


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## Sdaji (Mar 8, 2010)

Zoltag said:


> Everyone wants to discover a new species and that is easiest done when the genetic differences are colouring / patterning or a difference in the number of scales (but still plenty of overlap, mind you, so it is debatable whether there really is a difference).
> 
> Most of the world doesnt recognise sub-species or (worse still), locality specific variations of sub-species.



I also understand the motive for taxonomists to be splitters rather than lumpers (splitters get something to put a name on, lumpers don't). I understand that because of the motive to get their name on something new they'll take any excuse they can get. But I'm not sure why 'herper Joe with his pet Carpet Python' wants it to be locality/taxonomically pure rather than just looking pure, while on the other hand it doesn't matter if his Olive Python is a mongrel, because it still looks like a wild one. Would they suddenly care if there was some subtle scale characteristic they learned to check for on their Olives? The thing which puzzles me is that there seem to be two possible motives - having something which looks pure, and having something which is pure. If your motive is for the animal to look pure and you're not fussed about that invisible genetics stuff, sure, it makes sense if you cross your Olive localities, but wouldn't it then be fine to have hybridised Carpets as long as you picked one which looked pure? On the other hand, if it must BE pure, wouldn't it be equally important to keep your Olives pure?

For the record, I'm taxonomically a lumper (which it comes to species and subspecies - the labels) but when it comes to keeping and breeding, to me it's not pure unless it's locality pure, and for reasons I can not figure out myself, I like purity. I'm not fanatical about standing in other peoples' way though... largely because I would have no hope anyway!


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## cris (Mar 8, 2010)

What horrible abominations, if you keep crossing carpet pythons with carpet pythons, one day you wont know if its a carpet python or a carpet python.


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## Sdaji (Mar 8, 2010)

bluey66 said:


> Sdaji, l use to have Olive Python's here in my home and let me tell you they all came from Darwin Northern Territory, and one pair also came from Katherine from Reedy's Reptile's, and they never ever got to breed with my Darwin phase Olive Python's, least none of what l kept ever came from Mt Isa QLD, so least what l kept all came from the same state Northern Territory, Darwin & Katherine are not far apart.



You don't need to justify yourself to me  I'm not the purity police  What you do is your choice. If it was me I'd breed true to locality if I could source the animals, but if it is legal to cross a WA Olive with a QLD Olive it's not my call to tell you you're not allowed to do it, let alone a Darwin x Katherine. What is your motive though? It sounds like you would prefer to keep them pure to either Katherine or Darwin if possible, but if you can't tell the difference between a Katherine Olive and a Darwin Olive, why? I'll admit I would want to keep them pure despite not being able to tell the difference, and I'll admit I have no better reason than sentimentality, which I couldn't expect anyone else to understand or share.


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## bluey66 (Mar 8, 2010)

Sdaji said:


> You don't need to justify yourself to me  I'm not the purity police  What you do is your choice. If it was me I'd breed true to locality if I could source the animals, but if it is legal to cross a WA Olive with a QLD Olive it's not my call to tell you you're not allowed to do it, let alone a Darwin x Katherine. What is your motive though? It sounds like you would prefer to keep them pure to either Katherine or Darwin if possible, but if you can't tell the difference between a Katherine Olive and a Darwin Olive, why? I'll admit I would want to keep them pure despite not being able to tell the difference, and I'll admit I have no better reason than sentimentality, which I couldn't expect anyone else to understand or share.


 
Sdaji,
yes there is a difference between the Olive Python's found in either katherine or Darwin Northern Territory, and what the difference is between the 2 Olive Python's is their head shape it was Greg Fyfe who told me about this in 2005.

Greg Fyfe knows his Reptile's more than you and l ever will ( John - Sdaji ), now you can see why l decided to depart with the 2 Olive Python's l got from Reedy's Reptiles, cause l did not want them breeding with my 2 adults Olive python's from Darwin NT.


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## Sdaji (Mar 8, 2010)

I'll have to try to remember to bring that up next time I talk to Greg.

Assuming it to be the case that you can tell a Darwin Olive from a Katherine Olive, would you be willing to breed them together if you couldn't tell the difference? Doesn't this kill what you were saying about being happy that no one was going to taint Olives with pattern or hypo morphs? (not that it's out of the question that we might have hypo Olives at some point).



> So l will just stick to my beautiful Olive Python's least l know l wont end up with either crosses or hypos.[/quote


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## xxlauraxx (Mar 9, 2010)

*wooow!!*

wow i love the first pic its so beautiful so is the 2nd but i defo prefer the first pic lol  sorry but i dont like the 3rd pic i think its kind of whird looking but in a good way lol  ?....
frm laura


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## Kurto (Mar 9, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> I wont be posting any more hybrid threads..:| to many people havin ago at me all the time i feel like i am bck in school...




Please feel free to post some awesome looking snakes!  Some of us really enjoy seeing snake's that just look freak'n sweet!  I wouldn't worry about any comment on here or any other forum thats mean or having a personal attack at you. At the end of the day there only words from poeple with tunnel vision! :lol:


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## Colin (Mar 9, 2010)

good on you kurto  I think its outrageous a grown man sends rude bullying private messages to some poor teenage girl in england because she loves her pythons and is excited to post pics of them in our forum.. 

If some people doesnt like threads about hybrids then dont read them - simple.

go for your life junglejaguar.. lets see some more hybrid pics please


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## Retic (Mar 9, 2010)

Absolutely agree Colin, keep 'em coming


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## ShadowDragon (Mar 9, 2010)

Colin said:


> good on you kurto  I think its outrageous a grown man sends rude bullying private messages to some poor teenage girl in england because she loves her pythons and is excited to post pics of them in our forum..
> 
> If some people doesnt like threads about hybrids then dont read them - simple.
> 
> go for your life junglejaguar.. lets see some more hybrid pics please


You're absolutely right Colin, it's truly awful when grown men send young girls disgusting PMs like that. I'm frankly surprised and sickened at the idea that men on this site would send innapropriate messages to girls/women. I can only hope it isn't a terribly common experience.


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## TigerCoastal (Mar 9, 2010)

Jungle i love the pics you post, keep em comming. It mightn't be legal in some states here in aus but if it isnt done we will never know the possible results. All snakes are beautiful, individual animals that somebody somewhere will be happy to keep. Just because there is the odd person who has to act like a jo ho an force their beliefs down your throat dosnt mean we are all that way. If it wanst for line breeding we wouldnt have the "quality" of snake we have today, and what is line breeding? HUMANS forcing snakes to inbreed. Sure this isnt a big problem in reptiles, but to what degree does it happen in the wild? Do mother/son, father/daughter breed for generations or is there more possibility of another snake breeding with them? So whats the diff with cross breeding? Really, on a basic level? Its all just humans playing with nature to get what they think looks better


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## venskeeper (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't think he will be bothering you anymore JungleJaguar...I see he has been suspended...hehe.

So please go ahead and throw some more pics up if you have any. 

I for one really appreciate anyone that has put in the hard work and care for their animals, so don't let one jealous person put you off from what your doing


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## Sdaji (Mar 9, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> I wont be posting any more hybrid threads..:| to many people havin ago at me all the time i feel like i am bck in school...



If you're going to talk to reptile people you're going to get people abusing you. Unfortunately, you'll get it even if you post nothing more than "Hi everyone, I like snakes, nice to meet you" (I'm exaggerating less than you might think). Seriously, people will nit pick and cause a fight no matter what you you say. Reptile people polarise themselves on many issues, so if you're on a side you'll have people on the other side abusing you, and if you're on the fence some people will even abuse you for that! Don't let it worry you


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## richardsc (Mar 9, 2010)

alot of coastals have that red coloring when young


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## richardsc (Mar 9, 2010)

sdaji,unfortunatly it isnt just reptile folk who nit pick,im a member on quite a few different general interest forums,and it happens there to,its the internet,keyboard heros are left right and centre,dont take offence anyone,jj dont be shy to keep posting pics either

one question that i have with jags is how can they be claimed 75 percent this form cross 25 percent that and so on and so forth


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 9, 2010)

richardsc said:


> sdaji,unfortunatly it isnt just reptile folk who nit pick,im a member on quite a few different general interest forums,and it happens there to,its the internet,keyboard heros are left right and centre,dont take offence anyone,jj dont be shy to keep posting pics either
> 
> one question that i have with jags is how can they be claimed 75 percent this form cross 25 percent that and so on and so forth


its a long story ... Gonna get a proper write up for you..



venskeeper said:


> i don't think he will be bothering you anymore junglejaguar...i see he has been suspended...hehe.
> 
> So please go ahead and throw some more pics up if you have any.
> 
> I for one really appreciate anyone that has put in the hard work and care for their animals, so don't let one jealous person put you off from what your doing


thanks what fantastic news


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## Sdaji (Mar 9, 2010)

richardsc said:


> sdaji,unfortunatly it isnt just reptile folk who nit pick,im a member on quite a few different general interest forums,and it happens there to,its the internet,keyboard heros are left right and centre,dont take offence anyone,jj dont be shy to keep posting pics either



Absolutely true, and it's not just the case online either


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 9, 2010)

richardsc said:


> sdaji,unfortunatly it isnt just reptile folk who nit pick,im a member on quite a few different general interest forums,and it happens there to,its the internet,keyboard heros are left right and centre,dont take offence anyone,jj dont be shy to keep posting pics either
> 
> one question that i have with jags is how can they be claimed 75 percent this form cross 25 percent that and so on and so forth


Jungle Jaguars are produced from breeding a Coastal Jaguar Carpet to a Jungle Carpet, the resulting offspring are 50% Jungle Jaguars. Breeding a 50% Jungle Jaguar back to a Jungle Carpet would yield second generation or 75% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons.




*History* *
*In 2003 I hatched the first 50% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons, from 15 eggs hatched 9 Jungle Jaguars and 6 normal siblings. I kept the 9 Jungle Jaguars for future breeding projects. In 2005 I bred male 50% Jungle Jaguar Carpets to unrelated female Jungle carpets, hatching the first 75% Jungle Jaguars! The idea was to get smaller, more colourful Jaguars and as you can see the yellow has developed very well. The following year a strangely patterned 75% Jungle Jaguar hatched, he has been nicknamed "Ocelot" and I hope to prove him out in the future. 
Jungle Jaguars are produced from breeding a Coastal Jaguar Carpet to a Jungle Carpet, the resulting offspring are 50% Jungle Jaguars. Breeding a 50% Jungle Jaguar back to a Jungle Carpet would yield second generation or 75% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons.



*History* *
*In 2003 I hatched the first 50% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons, from 15 eggs hatched 9 Jungle Jaguars and 6 normal siblings. I kept the 9 Jungle Jaguars for future breeding projects. In 2005 I bred male 50% Jungle Jaguar Carpets to unrelated female Jungle carpets, hatching the first 75% Jungle Jaguars! The idea was to get smaller, more colourful Jaguars and as you can see the yellow has developed very well. The following year a strangely patterned 75% Jungle Jaguar hatched, he has been nicknamed "Ocelot" and I hope to prove him out in the future.



JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> Jungle Jaguars are produced from breeding a Coastal Jaguar Carpet to a Jungle Carpet, the resulting offspring are 50% Jungle Jaguars. Breeding a 50% Jungle Jaguar back to a Jungle Carpet would yield second generation or 75% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hope this gives you an idea richardsc


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## borntobnude (Mar 9, 2010)

ok so im a bit weired all snakes are pretty imo . yes here in oz we cannot cross breed our pet snakes ---thats the law get over it . the reason given is to keep them pure incase of a mass breakout when the bell sounds . very possibly there are ugly snakes in peoples eyes . i think that a lot of x bred dogs are ugly ie most oodles and anything bred with a chiuaua thanks for the pics jungle and i hope you have lots of fun with your mongrels


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## D3pro (Mar 9, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> I wont be posting any more hybrid threads..:| to many people havin ago at me all the time i feel like i am bck in school...



Please don't take what Blue said as a representative view for as other Australians. Your hybrids are awesome, most of us love them. Many people don't understand the concept and the hard work that goes into breeding these animals with results.

Send as many images as you want and dont listen to critics who think the world is flat. 

Regards,
me


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## FAY (Mar 9, 2010)

Please keep on topic of this thread....


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## richardsc (Mar 9, 2010)

i understand that bit jj,but if u breed a coastal jaguar to a jungle how come its a 50 percent jungle jaguar,how does it lose the coastal from its name

not being nitty picky,i just dont get how the percentage thing comes about
also wouldnt crossing a coastal carpet jag to a normal jungle actually result in 50 percent coastal jags,seing the jag trait was originally from the coastal in the pairing

and also doesnt breeding say 50 percent offspring back to a normal partner result in less of a percentage,not higher eg 75 percent

if u bred a 75 percent jungle jag with a normal jungle,you dont get a 100 percent jungle or a 100 percent jungle jag,they have coastal in there lineage,i dont understand the whole percentage thing in that way if u get my drift


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 10, 2010)

borntobnude said:


> ok so im a bit weired all snakes are pretty imo . Yes here in oz we cannot cross breed our pet snakes ---thats the law get over it . The reason given is to keep them pure incase of a mass breakout when the bell sounds . very possibly there are ugly snakes in peoples eyes . I think that a lot of x bred dogs are ugly ie most oodles and anything bred with a chiuaua thanks for the pics jungle and i hope you have lots of fun with your mongrels


 you shouldnt judge a book by its cover.. and i am proud of my mongrels...:d:d:d


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## Jarden (Mar 10, 2010)

dw JJ your Jagz are hot  turn that frown upside down and SMILE


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 10, 2010)

Jarden said:


> dw JJ your Jagz are hot  turn that frown upside down and SMILE


Thank you Jarden youve made me SMILE 



Jarden said:


> dw JJ your Jagz are hot  turn that frown upside down and SMILE


Really luv your profile pic..


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## mojo73 (Mar 10, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> Jungle Jaguars are produced from breeding a Coastal Jaguar Carpet to a Jungle Carpet, the resulting offspring are 50% Jungle Jaguars. Breeding a 50% Jungle Jaguar back to a Jungle Carpet would yield second generation or 75% Jungle Jaguar Carpet Pythons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is Paul Harris - aka the author of this going to be given credit for this above article?


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## mojo73 (Mar 10, 2010)

More Mongrels in the making for you Jane


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## krefft (Mar 10, 2010)

borntobnude said:


> ok so im a bit weired all snakes are pretty imo . yes here in oz we cannot cross breed our pet snakes ---thats the law get over it . the reason given is to keep them pure incase of a mass breakout when the bell sounds . very possibly there are ugly snakes in peoples eyes . i think that a lot of x bred dogs are ugly ie most oodles and anything bred with a chiuaua thanks for the pics jungle and i hope you have lots of fun with your mongrels


 
Good news! As you live in NSW you can cross breed your snakes. Check your licence, it's legal.
When that bell sounds because of " a mass breakout :shock: " they won't be using any of our snakes to repopulate wild collections.

We are producing snakes for the pet trade, nothing more.


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## stencorp69 (Mar 10, 2010)

I think "pure" breeding is a bit of a myth especially if you believe in evolution - nature seems to be hell bent on mutating genetics. Even the fact that we keep some animals as pets is a manipulation by nature - who is actually using who? But I guess it is possible to pure breed by cloning.

For me some of these pics are ugly but I liked the 50% diamond jungle - unnatural selection.


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## Retic (Mar 10, 2010)

I am still amazed by how many people think we have ANYTHING to do with conservation, as you say they are all pets and nothing more. 



krefft said:


> We are producing snakes for the pet trade, nothing more.


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## Colin (Mar 10, 2010)

krefft said:


> When that bell sounds because of " a mass breakout :shock: " they won't be using any of our snakes to repopulate wild collections.
> 
> We are producing snakes for the pet trade, nothing more.



couldn't agree more krefft  all our captive bred animals are pets.. nothing more..


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## Australis (Mar 10, 2010)

I wonder if there would be any conservation value in "pets" that no longer exist in their wild state.
Im guessing there would be, actually im sure there has been.. hobbyist examples of this around
the world.


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## aprice (Mar 10, 2010)

So much rubbish in this thread. The fact is, whether our pets have any conservation value or not, there are always going to be purists breeding pure snakes, and the few people breeding hybrids is not going to have an impact on that.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Mar 10, 2010)

mojo73 said:


> More Mongrels in the making for you Jane


 
Did this pairing produce offspring...... Id get some just for interest sake, would be interesting watching the colouring up after each shed.


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## shellfisch (Mar 10, 2010)

BARRAMUNDI said:


> Did this pairing produce offspring...... Id get some just for interest sake, would be interesting watching the colouring up after each shed.



I don't believe mojo73 put up that pic because he/she had any connection.....I think it was put up, along with the comment, purely to be mean......

Edited because I just assumed mojo73 is a male


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## Zoltag (Mar 10, 2010)

richardsc said:


> i understand that bit jj,but if u breed a coastal jaguar to a jungle how come its a 50 percent jungle jaguar,how does it lose the coastal from its name
> 
> not being nitty picky,i just dont get how the percentage thing comes about
> also wouldnt crossing a coastal carpet jag to a normal jungle actually result in 50 percent coastal jags,seing the jag trait was originally from the coastal in the pairing
> ...



The percentage thing is quite easy to work out.

50% of the genes comes from the male, 50% from the female. Thus, if the male is a 50% Jungle cross and the female is a 100% Jungle purebred, then the offspring would consist of 50% x 50% Jungle cross (or 25% Jungle, 25% other) and 50% x 100% Jungle (or 50% Jungle). Adding the result gives you 75% Jungle cross.

In terms of breeding a 75% Jungle with a 100% Jungle, you are right, they wouldnt be 100% Jungle, they would be 87.5% Jungle.

These percentages are all averages, though, because what you will really get depends on the the actual genes in the parents and the random luck as to which genes make it into the offspring. So, if an actual 75% Jungle is crossed with an actual 100% Jungle, you could get anything from 75% Jungles through to 100% Jungles in the resulting offspring. It becomes more interesting if you have an actual 75% Jungle paired with an actual 75% Jungle, which will give you anything from 50% Jungles through to 100% Jungles.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Mar 10, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> I don't believe mojo73 put up that pic because he/she had any connection.....I think it was put up, along with the comment, purely to be mean......
> 
> Edited because I just assumed mojo73 is a male


 
Maybe, maybe not, 

he/she posted a pic of one of his Jags earlier and has seemed to be fairly neutral to the hybrid debate so far......


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## shellfisch (Mar 10, 2010)

BARRAMUNDI said:


> Maybe, maybe not,
> 
> he/she posted a pic of one of his Jags earlier and has seemed to be fairly neutral to the hybrid debate so far......



If that's the case, I stand corrected and totally apologise. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.


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## borntobnude (Mar 10, 2010)

ooops 

i was wondering if i should post in this thread or just keep my strange sense of what i call humour to my self for fear of some one thinking the wrong thing 
yes / no too late 
when the bell rings is a signal for All snakes to escape and either return to the wild or go to the place that (if they were not just bred for pets ) they may have already been. 
as said i think all snakes are pretty special ---lizards frogs birds etc 
they didnt ask to be cross bred /hybrydised /GMed but they are here and should/ need to be loved and caredfor just the same as all of the pure strains of any animal


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## richardsc (Mar 10, 2010)

i think the percentage thing is errornous,first off if u have a jungle jag which originally was produced from a mating with a coastal jag and a pure jungle,that bloodline will always be polluted by coastal bloodline,you cant breed it out

how does crossing a coastal jag to a jungle pure result in jungle jags,how is the coastal forgotten,and also what happens when the 3rd sub species is bred into the line,say a diamondjunglecoastal jag


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## Bushfire (Mar 10, 2010)

Richard, it is a statistically chance, just like producing albinos from various % of hets. The difference being albinos are visual so you will know when you got it.

If you breed a 50% jungle jag (it could be of any %, but the lower the % the lower the chance) with a 100% Jungle, as both parents do have jungle genes there is a statistically chance of getting a 100% Jungle. The offspring could potentially range from 50% jungle jag all the way through to 100% jungle (but never a 100% jag, as both parents dont hold the jag gene only one does). Will you know its a 100% - No, breeders take the middle ground and say 75% Jungle Jag, just like breeders calculating the chance of a clutch being albino or hets from het parents.


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

mojo73 said:


> more mongrels in the making for you jane


very nice ideed.. why do you always call them mongrels?..:| you never have have anything nice to say..?


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

borntobnude said:


> ooops
> 
> i was wondering if i should post in this thread or just keep my strange sense of what i call humour to my self for fear of some one thinking the wrong thing
> yes / no too late
> ...


you never have anything nice to say anyway... :| so whats the point ?


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## mojo73 (Mar 11, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> very nice ideed.. why do you always call them mongrels?..:| you never have have anything nice to say..?



Jane I take it you do not know or understand what a mongrel is?

If I call my snake a mongrel that is not a bad thing. In it's simplest terms it means that it is a snake that has a mixed ancestry. In this case it is the breeding of a bredli with a diamond x jungle (a mongrel) and hopefully the creation of further mongrels.

If you do not understand something please either ask or use the dictionary 

All the best.


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

mojo73 said:


> Jane I take it you do not know or understand what a mongrel is?
> 
> If I call my snake a mongrel that is not a bad thing. In it's simplest terms it means that it is a snake that has a mixed ancestry. In this case it is the breeding of a bredli with a diamond x jungle (a mongrel) and hopefully the creation of further mongrels.
> 
> ...


EXCUSE ME MR... I DO KNOW WHAT A MONGREL IS  HERE WE DONT CALL THEM MONGRELS WE SAY CROSSES :| ... ARE THEY REALLY YOUR SNAKES ?


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

shellfisch said:


> i don't believe mojo73 put up that pic because he/she had any connection.....i think it was put up, along with the comment, purely to be mean......
> 
> Edited because i just assumed mojo73 is a male


i was thinking the same aswell ?


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## Colin (Mar 11, 2010)

mojo73 said:


> In this case it is the breeding of a bredli with a diamond x jungle (a mongrel) and hopefully the creation of further mongrels.



mojo73 can I ask you two questions please? 

(1) are you in australia or england?

(2) are the jungle and bredli in the pic you posted your animals? 

because on the newspaper they are sitting on in the top corner near that piece of wood it clearly has a monetary amount shown in pounds for that car and we have dollars here in Australia. So your either not in Australia (even though you have a 4X avatar to suggest your in QLD) or if you are in Australia and the snakes are not yours and its a wind up.. 

just my observations and would appreciate you clearing this matter up please. thanks


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

colin said:


> mojo73 can i ask you two questions please?
> 
> (1) are you in australia or england?
> 
> ...


thats what i noticed the newspaper ?


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## mojo73 (Mar 11, 2010)

Colin said:


> mojo73 can I ask you two questions please?
> 
> (1) are you in australia or england?
> 
> ...



Dear Colin,

yes you may.

1. United Kingdom

2. Yes they are mine but it is not a jungle but a diamond x jungle - no wind up.

As per the avatar it is because it is one of my favourite beers, it could have been Amstel or Castle as I like those too


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## Colin (Mar 11, 2010)

thanks for that mojo73  cheers


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

mojo73 said:


> Dear Colin,
> 
> yes you may.
> 
> ...


i had an idea you was from england


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## Zoltag (Mar 11, 2010)

richardsc said:


> i think the percentage thing is errornous,first off if u have a jungle jag which originally was produced from a mating with a coastal jag and a pure jungle,that bloodline will always be polluted by coastal bloodline,you cant breed it out
> 
> how does crossing a coastal jag to a jungle pure result in jungle jags,how is the coastal forgotten,and also what happens when the 3rd sub species is bred into the line,say a diamondjunglecoastal jag



As explained, the percentage thing is an average. With careful breeding and genetic testing (and a good number of purebreds to select from), you absolutely can breed the Coastal genes out of a line. When the parents produce offspring without Coastal genes, it doesnt matter how many times you breed the offspring (or its offspring, or its offsprings offspring, etc), unless you specifically add a Coastal, or a Coastal cross back into the line, the Coastal genes are gone and will not magically reappear (unless by some freaky luck you get an animal that has a genetic mutation identical to one or more Coastal genes - Which is unlikely in the extreme to occur).

Crossing Coastal Jags with Jungles would produce Coastal Jag Jungle crosses. As the Jag gene is Coastal in nature, do you really need the name Coastal there? Jungle Jag sounds better (its all in the marketing ). If you add another sub-species (remember, Coastals and Jungles are the same species), then you make up a new name for it.


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

Zoltag said:


> As explained, the percentage thing is an average. With careful breeding and genetic testing (and a good number of purebreds to select from), you absolutely can breed the Coastal genes out of a line. When the parents produce offspring without Coastal genes, it doesnt matter how many times you breed the offspring (or its offspring, or its offsprings offspring, etc), unless you specifically add a Coastal, or a Coastal cross back into the line, the Coastal genes are gone and will not magically reappear (unless by some freaky luck you get an animal that has a genetic mutation identical to one or more Coastal genes - Which is unlikely in the extreme to occur).
> 
> Crossing Coastal Jags with Jungles would produce Coastal Jag Jungle crosses. As the Jag gene is Coastal in nature, do you really need the name Coastal there? Jungle Jag sounds better (its all in the marketing ). If you add another sub-species (remember, Coastals and Jungles are the same species), then you make up a new name for it.


couldnt have said it any better..


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## Colin (Mar 11, 2010)

come on people  stop the bickering please or I will close this thread. thank you


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

sorry about this Colin.. i just had to defend myself...:| cause he was starting to get very personal :x


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## Colin (Mar 11, 2010)

JUNGLEJAGUAR said:


> sorry about this Colin.. i just had to defend myself...:| cause he was starting to get very personal :x




you dont have to defend yourself.. if anyone starts anything with anyone else thats what the moderators are here for. by "defending" yourself you may end up with an infraction yourself. 

and maybe we should give some credit to anthony caponetto for some of the beautiful animals in this thread.. if you post pics or information that is not your own and belongs to someone else, its polite to include a link or reference to them. cheers 

Anthony Caponetto Reptiles - Diamond x Jungle Carpet Pythons


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 11, 2010)

gosh your right colin i am really sorry i didnt mean any harm by it..


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## shane14 (Mar 11, 2010)

the last looks like a bredli haa


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## marvelfreak (Mar 18, 2010)

I to luv this hybrid and many others. I hope you don't mind if i post some pics of my 75% diamond x 25% jungle? The marking look jugle ,but the color all yellow diamond.


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## Kristy_07 (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, I like 'em. But my dogs are mongrels, too  Nice pics, guys. I, personally, would love to see more.


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## zulu (Mar 19, 2010)

*re juv*

Some pics of a mates bredli that looks like a diamond cross in appearance and a diamond feeding.


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## JUNGLEJAGUAR (Mar 19, 2010)

They are so stunning :d:d:d


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## Joelspythons (Apr 12, 2010)

i dont like the consept hybrids but the second picture is stunning i would buy one of those snakes but i wouldnt breed them and it it is wront to hybrid snakes well that is my thaughts dont no about other people


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## thebraddles (Apr 12, 2010)

this is my boy jet, he was supposed to be a coastal, but after seeing that first pic i am suspecting that he may indeed have 50% of something else running through him. (which i have suspected for a while) either coastal x diamond or x jungle or diamond x jungle....


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## spanna_spamload (Apr 12, 2010)

looks alot like a jungle, and a nice one too


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