# Expert Advice needed asap... Re: monitors and first time keeper.



## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Ok well basically I am looking at getting my first monitor, to get the experience to eventually be able to own my own bell phase Lacey. 

But in the past I have only kept blueys, beardeds, snakes, scorpions, turtles. Never monitors. 

Id like to be able to have a larger if not largest possible size monitor for a first time keeper.

so far most people have suggested either an ackie, a spencers monitor, or a black headed... From my knowledge the spencers is the only reasonably large monitor of the three? Can you suggest any others?


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## Varanoidea (May 14, 2013)

Why go large for your first time? Personally I think starting miniature would be better, but that's not what you want to hear so how about a Sand Monitor (also called Gould's monitor). They get fairly large and unless they changed it recently are only R1.


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

I've kept the smaller lizards I'd like more experience with something with more size, and I'm just a fan of larger monitors... I will look into that sand monitor  thanks




keep em comming!


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## bencrowe (May 14, 2013)

I wouldn't recommend you go for large monitors straight away they are different to beardies and other lizards they are much harder to control and tame.


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## disintegratus (May 14, 2013)

My first (and only so far) monitor is a Mertens Water Monitor. Not bitey (not particularly placid, just not prone to using his teeth), will get to a decent size, but so far has been a pretty awesome first monitor


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## imported_Varanus (May 14, 2013)

Spencers are a good larger species, at least, that's what I started with. But, if you want a Lacie, why not just go a Lacie? Very different to anything else anyway and there's plenty of great info out there with regard to their captive husbandry, and some excellent breeders. JMO.


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## longqi (May 14, 2013)

So long as you completely understand the potential damage they can cause
I would go for what you really want

No use getting something you really have no interest in

Its a bit like venomous snakes
Nobody can really afford to get hit by any of them and they should all be treated the same way
but how many threads are there asking 'What is a good ven for me?"
If you want a taipan, learn about them and get one
RBB isnt going going to interest you for long imo

So if you want a lacey do your homework and try to get some practical experience through other keepers
then go find one you like


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

I live on average and have a large outside enclosure so I contemplated getting a lace monitor. Just the responses from other members towards people doing the same thing I'm contemplating put me off. I'm sure I could handle it, but I am looking for something I can also handle atm, and from what I've read lace monitors are not exactly the monitor to be handled.


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## imported_Varanus (May 14, 2013)

If looking for something to handle, you'd do better to get another Bluie or BD. No monitors really cope that well with handling, as you've no doubt heard already.


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Yeh I have heard that. But at the same time have been told spencers can be great handlers if raised properly...


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## Umbral (May 14, 2013)

Our sandy is great, and is slowly getting used to us.


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## imported_Varanus (May 14, 2013)

If you allow them to interact on their own terms and as they approach adult size, both species eventually appear to loose much of their initial fear of humans (or any other large potential predator). Having said that, a "dog tame" monitor can be much more dangerous to the keeper than a "fresh" animal for that very reason, especially when food's about.


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Yeh I know about feeding responses around these animals... 

How bad can a bite from a full grown Lacie be? Comparable to say a dogs with smaller teeth?


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## Brodie (May 14, 2013)

Bad. They can cause severe lacerations. Their teeth are like razor blades. A friend was bitten on the wrist and had nerves, tendons and an artery completely severed. A couple hundred stitches and he will never regain full use of his hand. That was from a medium sized Lacey.


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## imported_Varanus (May 14, 2013)

I've neen bitten by either.


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Wow that does sound pretty crazy, as I said though I understand if properly handled you can be quite safe. I've seen those leather gloves work quite well to lol 

If I do decide to go something other than a Lacie just at first....

Spencers, black headed, sand monitor.... So those seem to be my best 3 bets for a medium/large lizard?


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## Paintbrushturkey (May 14, 2013)

Crocdoc said:


> That photo was of the wrist of a grown man, bitten by a captive lace monitor. After this photo was taken the mate whose wrist that is said he was happy the monitor *didn't manage to get a good, solid bite on his wrist* (according to him it was just a *glancing bite*), because if it had his tendons would have been severed and his hand functions would never have been the same again.



The point i'm trying to make here is that a large monitor will do substantial damage with a bite, shredding tendons arteries and other soft tissue... smaller monitor = less damage (even through it will still look like you put your arm in a mincer the bites tend to be more superficial and well... smaller). They are simply not comparable to a Bluey or Beardie, if you want to compare it to a dog think full grown angry bull mastiff with razorblades for teeth... I'm by no means an expert on monitors, but a pic tells a thousand words.

Another fact you should consider are the anticoagulant properties of monitor saliva which will cause wounds to bleed excessively (And by this I mean you will need serious medical attention in the case of a bite, here is a picture of a "Treated" croc monitor bite (bit larger than a lacie but it makes my point):


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Yeh that pic does explain alot. I was in no way saying monitors are anything like a bluey or bearded in regards to behaviors I was just meaning in the regards for basic care.

so what's the average size of the 3 monitors I mentioned? Blackhead, sand monitor, spencers...?


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## Paintbrushturkey (May 14, 2013)

No worries, I just figured i'd let you know what you were gettign into 

Approximately:

Black headed monitor 80cm
Gould's monitor `150cm
Spencer's Monitor 120cm
Mertens' water monitor 100cm
Ackie 70cm
Lace monitor 200cm


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

Unreal mate thanks for that... Helps alot with my decision. I don't suppose you'd know rough prices... From what I've read I'm guessing 

black headed 300
Goulds 500
spencers 600
mertins 600
ackie 250
Lacie 500

???

i frequently look on this site, herp trader, Rdu,


Sorry for the questions but I promise that's it lol


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## Stevo2 (May 14, 2013)

I think that ackies and tristis are going to be too small for what you desire. SV length is what makes the 'bulk' of the size of the larger monitors and tristis, at 300mm for a large specimen, and ackies, at 250mm just ain't there.

Have a read of a good book, like "A Guide to... Australian Monitors in Captivity", written by one of our members (Dr Danny Brown). 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

I suppose it's really what I can get my hands on atm. I've been looking almost daily for around 2-3 months now and have only seen tristis and ackie a for sale... The larger monitors are much harder to come by out of breeding season Iv found.


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## Rogue5861 (May 14, 2013)

I would go a spencers if ya wanted something bigger, from what i have read /seen they are alot less likely to bite.

Im about to purchase some ackies but as said they are a small monitor, my first big monitor will be a spencers.


Rick


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## whyme (May 14, 2013)

I reckon if you want a lacie, get a lacie. Awsome creatures. But they need a lot of respect. They can, and will, interact eventually, on their own terms. Try to force 'em, you'll be sorry. Smaller monitors are great, but why setup one if you don't want it? Hatchie lacies are quite shy, but you can definately see the change when they get confident. They have awsome character and attitude, and can be extremely rewarding to the right keepers. In regards to the bite comparison between small dogs and lacies. We've got a malt/KC caval. He bit me once when I tried to take a lamb bone off him. Wipe on the jeans, all fixed. My little lacie kissed me once, for a split second, and I ended up with a finger full of stitches. No comparison. Good luck;D
P.S. This is not expert advice....... Just my opinion


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

So at 2 years of age from what I've seen a Lacie would only be roughly 2-2.5ft.... So hypothetically the bite before this stage wouldn't be quite as bad? I'm just curious as I don't want a 4ft lizard within 6 months of owning my first monitor.


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## Rogue5861 (May 14, 2013)

Ranga said:


> So at 2 years of age from what I've seen a Lacie would only be roughly 2-2.5ft.... So hypothetically the bite before this stage wouldn't be quite as bad? I'm just curious as I don't want a 4ft lizard within 6 months of owning my first monitor.



Have you seen the "how not to feed a big monitor lizard" video on youtube?


Rick


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## whyme (May 14, 2013)

It wont be 4ft in 6 months. But the bit from a 2 ft is still bad, especially if the thing is having a red hot go!!!! Not trying to scare you off, but you need to respect 'em, and know how dangerous they really can be. In saying that, I reckon they are the best thing I've ever owned!!!!!


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## Ranga (May 14, 2013)

^ as a Lacie owner, do you handle it much? Or more of just a caged pet you feed? I enjoy interacting with my animals and hence why I'd hope to be able to handle it one day. I have seen several that walk around the house on a leash just fine lol not sure if it's a common thing though...


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## sd1981 (May 15, 2013)

Don't make the mistake that this is how all lace monitors are.. Monitors don't tame up the way pythons do with constant handling, as stated earlier in this thread, all interaction must be on the monitors terms, otherwise when the Lacie has a bit of size, it won't go near you without wanting to defend itself (my opinion and experience only). Those lacies have very experienced keepers who understand the risks involved and have amazing knowledge of the lace monitor as an individual... These "dog tame" lacies still have the ability to cause the damage as shown in the earlier pics... My lacies aren't dog tame, rather tolerant of myself but I prefer something that will keep me honest (stops me from becoming complacent)... I interact with mine but not to the same degree as my pythons which can be held comfortably by my 3 year old....


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## saximus (May 15, 2013)

Ranga said:


> So at 2 years of age from what I've seen a Lacie would only be roughly 2-2.5ft.... So hypothetically the bite before this stage wouldn't be quite as bad? I'm just curious as I don't want a 4ft lizard within 6 months of owning my first monitor.



Mine is coming up on a year old and would be around the 2 foot mark (total length). As with snakes, growth rate is pretty dependent on feeding. I think I feed reasonably sensibly but if you smash food into them you could get them much larger much faster. The converse is also true but there's obviously a difference between low feeding rate and under feeding.
There seem to be two schools of thought with "taming". There's the ones who say you should let it grow accustomed to you and there's the ones who say you should force it with constant handling. I'm personally a fan of the former and so is Crocdoc (aka the Lacey master) so that's probably worth taking into account.
Another thing people haven't touched on so much are the claws. Obviously the bites have ridiculous potential to cause injury but unless you're wearing gloves and long sleeves, you may end up with puncture marks just from them trying to hang on. This is especially the case with smaller ones whose claws are like little needles. Having said that though, they are very rewarding and interesting animals to own and hopefully the (overly?) cautious nature of most people in relation to them isn't a deterrent if that's what you really want. I've had Ackies and tristis and they just didn't compare to the intelligence you can see when you look in the eyes of a Lacey. I've not had any experience with spenceri or gouldii though so can't comment on them.


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## Bluetongue1 (May 15, 2013)

You really need to decide what you ultimately want. If it is a Bell’s Lace Monitor and you have several years of successful lizard husbandry of a range of smaller species behind you, then you are likely capable of caring adequately for a Lace Monitor. You understand what is involved in husbandry and therefore what you need to research. There are some excellent books around these days and someone like Crocdoc could point you in the right direction. 

Alternatively, if you feel the least bit in doubt of your capabilities at this point in time then take on a smaller species with similar things in common with lacies. Things like both terrestrial and arboreal for a significant amount of their time, quick moving in a cage etc. I reckon the choice gets down to two – Black-headed and Spencer’s Monitor. Either of these will help to develop your large monitor husbandry skills and allow a smaller step up to keeping a Lace Monitor. If it were me I would be choosing on the basis of which I liked most, as you will be along time looking at it. 

Monitor teeth are recurved and knife-like, with serrated edges, and a mobile upper jaw that facilitates engagement of all the teeth into the prey item. They are designed for slicing so they can tear chunks off items that are too big to swallow whole e.g. a dead kangaroo. Even smaller monitors can do some real damage for their size.

Thanks for the gloves comment *Saximus*. The gloves that you me3ntoned in post 16 *Ranga* are primarily for protection fromclaws and while they might ameliorate the damage inflicted by a bite, a sizeable Lacie would would easily bite through them.

Blue


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## champagne (May 15, 2013)

My first monitor was a Lacie if you are going to get one get onto crocdoc or tony harrison as they can give you very good advise on keeping them. If you are worried about getting bitten I would get a Spencer's they tend to tail whip over bite. The biggest problem with monitors is the feed response and the smallest thing can set that off so If you want a dog tame monitor, you will have to feed it a lot this reduces the risk of a feed response when handling. Also you have to look at your living situation, cats, small dogs or children can be a bad combo are large monitors. Just remember large monitors are more dangerous then a venomous snake... There's no antivenin for missing fingers.


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## whyme (May 15, 2013)

Ranga said:


> ^ as a Lacie owner, do you handle it much? Or more of just a caged pet you feed? I enjoy interacting with my animals and hence why I'd hope to be able to handle it one day. I have seen several that walk around the house on a leash just fine lol not sure if it's a common thing though...


I dont handle my lacies much at all. A pat here and there, or picking up with gloved hands to take inside. They do roam around the house and the shed, but only when it's just me home. Don't know why you would want to handle a grown lacey. you can interact without holding. Walking on the leash, dunno. If I tried to put my lacies on a leash, I'd need shares in Elastoplast bandaids!!!!!! If you dont think your going to be comfortable with a lacie, don't get one. But don't get another monitor because thats what " came up" . Do your research. Talk to, or email, or msg or whatever. Be prepared. If you are, you wont wanna keep anything else. Monitors are so interesting and so much fun!!!!!!


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## B_STATS (May 16, 2013)

You wouldn't catch me handling a Lacie without gloves and those gauntlets you wear when handling glass.


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