# Egg incubation problems



## eddie123 (Oct 29, 2013)

I have had over 35 bearded dragon eggs in my hovabator and I am now left with less than 25. They keep slowly shrivelling up and then dying. I mixed a 50/50 verm mix and tubs are airtight and their is lots of water on lid of tubs and substrate still holds shape. Some eggs are a month old and over half of the 16 have died and now the new clutch of 20 are fading slowly. All eggs had bright veins once laid and the eggs look healthy before they shrivel. I have knobtail gecko eggs in the same incubator and they are doing great. I don't think it is not enough humidity but I cannot find the effects of too much humidity. The temps in the incubator range from 27-29. Any help is great 
Will add photos soon


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## junglepython2 (Oct 29, 2013)

Not all egg deaths are from incubation issues, some eggs just don't have what it takes for whatever reason. In saying that too much water can kill them and I usually dab up any excess water on the lid of the tubs with paper towel until there is only some light misting on the sides.


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## James_Scott (Oct 29, 2013)

What are you checking the temps with?


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## eddie123 (Oct 29, 2013)

2 digital thermometers and a circle thermometer


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## turtle (Oct 30, 2013)

If there is water on the lids, it's not getting the right temps. Water will form on the coldest part of the container.


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## James_Scott (Oct 30, 2013)

eddie123 said:


> 2 digital thermometers and a circle thermometer



I dont know how accurate the circle thermometers are but if you are talking about the cheap digital thermometers you get on ebay then they are often out by as much as 3c. I would invest in an infrared gun thermometer for next season.


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## eddie123 (Oct 30, 2013)

Heat is from the bottom so that's what I though the water on the lid was from. Thermometers are very accurate and have been used for a long time

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Visit my thread at the beardie forum to see the rest


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## eddie123 (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm losing another good one


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## Planky (Nov 1, 2013)

Have your tryed dusting them with an anti fungal powder? U might have some bacteria on the eggs witch will slowly kill them


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## animal805 (Nov 1, 2013)

I am sticking with far to much water and not enough heat


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## The Devil (Nov 1, 2013)

turtle said:


> If there is water on the lids, it's not getting the right temps. Water will form on the coldest part of the container.



Moisture will always form on the warmer & more humid side of the glass. On a cool damp night the windows of a car fog up on the inside where it is warmer than the outside air.

The temps inside the eggs container will be slightly higher as the substrate be is vermiculite or just water acts as a heat sink and retains heat. Whereas the air temp in the incubator will fluctuate as much as the dead zone on the t/stat.

Also metabolic activity of the developing hatchie will cause a slight temp increase of up 1C

junglepython2 is correct, some embryos are weak and just meant not to hatch.


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## Planky (Nov 1, 2013)

my beardie eggs tub sits at a constant 28.4 while the incubator sits at 31


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## Snakester (Nov 1, 2013)

I feel for ya, it can be heartbreaking to watch.

Egg loss has happened to me also over the years. For next season I would recommend a temp gun, the no substrate method, scrap the hova and make your own incubator with a quality pulse proportional thermostat.

For this season perhaps start a new egg container with a fresh vermiculite mix. There should not be excess water dripping onto the eggs as this can ruin them.


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## eddie123 (Nov 1, 2013)

I have made a fresh batch of vermiculite and with one container 60/40 and the other 50/50. Candled all eggs and discarded the bad and I am left with 5 from the first clutch and eight from the second. Probes and hydrometers are in the egg containers and the incubation temp was raised to 29-31

Hope something goes well


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## zulu (Nov 1, 2013)

31 is the temperature ive hatched beardy eggs at with the probe inside the egg container ,worked well.


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## eddie123 (Nov 1, 2013)

I have the max min probe so I will try to range it around 30


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## Tobe404 (Nov 1, 2013)

I lost some eggs recently too...

Didn't expect them and all I had at the time to incubate with was Bunnings play sand and a small take away container (air holes in the top).

Filled it half way up with the play sand, put the eggs in about half way deep in the sand.
Taped the thermostat probe on the inside of the lid. Set it to 31.
There was a fair bit of condensation on top of the inside of the lid. Not so much on the sides though.
Eggs seemed okay to start with but all are shriveled up now and gone.
Water would very slightly drip on the eggs every now and again when opening the container to check on the eggs. But I always dabbed them off with paper towel. Eggs were always dry apart from this.

I've been racking my brain trying to think what I've done wrong.
I feel pretty bad about it. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

I hope the rest of yours hatch for you Eddie.


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## saintanger (Nov 1, 2013)

don't use sand, i tried it with my first clutch this season and lost the whole clutch. also i think i added to much water to vermiculite and lost my 4th clutch. but used a 50/50 water and perlite and hatched 2 good clutches, at 29 degrees. 

we all learn from our mistakes just keep trying.
[h=1][/h]


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2013)

Tobe404 said:


> Water would very slightly drip on the eggs every now and again when opening the container to check on the eggs. But I always dabbed them off with paper towel. Eggs were always dry apart from this.
> 
> I've been racking my brain trying to think what I've done wrong.
> I feel pretty bad about it. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
> ...



Water dripping on the eggs blocks the pores which usually ends up in the egg dying


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## Tobe404 (Nov 2, 2013)

Has anyone ever tried moist coco-peat/kritters krumble as an incubation substrate?
Or is vermiculiite the only substrate people really use during incubation?
How's the eggs over water with no substrate method go?



GeckoJosh said:


> Water dripping on the eggs blocks the pores which usually ends up in the egg dying



Yeah but there's always some form of condensation in most incubation methods I've seen - so they are bound to have water drip on them at some point?
Plus how does that explain this... As soon as it rained the eggs would be toast. It was a crappy day as it was when I found them - One of the eggs had already fallen from the rest.
Only reason I brought them in was because I didn't believe they would last outside where they were.

Here's the four eggs. Note I left the two hatched eggs in place so I didn't disturb the others





And the two baby Geckos.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 2, 2013)

Tobe404 said:


> Has anyone ever tried moist coco-peat/kritters krumble as an incubation substrate?
> Or is vermiculiite the only substrate people really use during incubation?
> How's the eggs over water with no substrate method go?
> 
> ...



Properly set up incubators should never have condensation form droplets on the tub lids.
Iit is very well known that water drops damages/kills soft-shelled eggs by blocking the pores used to exchange moisture and/or gasses. 

There are a number of incubation mediums available, the most common are: Perlite, Vermiculite, Sphagnum moss.
The over water technique seems to be really gaining popularity amongst experienced breeders, when done correctly it seems to be a very successful way to incubate reptile eggs.

The eggs pics you have posted are Christinus marmoratus, they lay hard-shelled eggs (only a handful of Aussie lizard genus's lay eggs like this) that do not react the same way as they do not absorb or loose moisture like soft-shelled eggs.


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## snakelady-viper (Nov 2, 2013)

Take them out of the vermiculite and incubate over a water bath Set temp around 31 inside the container 
If it was too much humidity they would be very large as they take on extra fluid and drown 
I would say you heat is not right Also try and fan the eggs a few times a week to aid in oxygen transfer


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## eddie123 (Nov 2, 2013)

All are starting to look a lot better when I changed the median and bumped the temps 
Thanks guys ps I'm also building a bar fridge for the next clutch due to arrive next week


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## Tobe404 (Nov 2, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> Properly set up incubators should never have condensation form droplets on the tub lids.
> Iit is very well known that water drops damages/kills soft-shelled eggs by blocking the pores used to exchange moisture and/or gasses.
> 
> There are a number of incubation mediums available, the most common are: Perlite, Vermiculite, Sphagnum moss.
> ...



Thanks for clearing that up Josh. I think the fundimental mistake I made was that the container had air holes in the lid. All be it tiny ones.
But would of been enough to create the condensation on the inside of the lid I'd say (air exchange and temp difference from outside and inside the container).
The container I used to hatch the Marbled Geckos in was air tight with no air holes. Never had condensation. Explains a lot.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 28, 2013)

Tobe404 said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Josh. I think the fundimental mistake I made was that the container had air holes in the lid. All be it tiny ones.
> But would of been enough to create the condensation on the inside of the lid I'd say (air exchange and temp difference from outside and inside the container).
> The container I used to hatch the Marbled Geckos in was air tight with no air holes. Never had condensation. Explains a lot.



Next time just use a dry incubation medium. Marbled Gecko eggs are hard-shelled and do not need to be kept moist.


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## reptalica (Nov 28, 2013)

Apologies for a slight hijacking of the thread but soon I will be in a situation (first time breeder) with my Central Netted eggs. With regards to the temperature probe where exactly with regards to the incubator does this need to sit.

Inside the container? Next to the heat cord probe? Do I need two thermometers? 

Many thanks.


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## GeckoJosh (Nov 28, 2013)

You are best positioning the temperature probe in with the eggs and the thermostat probe in a centralized location (in regards to temperature gradient).


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## ingie (Nov 29, 2013)

How do people actually set up the "over water" method? I see people say it all the time, but haven't come across a clear diagram of how to set it up. Can you use a water heater in a broccoli box, to do it?

My friend recently had a surprise clutch of bearded dragon eggs from her young beardy, and they were laid into dry sand and spent about 6 hours in the dry sand. I had just got a cheap deal on a new Exoterra incubator ($250) that I planned to use for frilly eggs if I got any, and said she could bring her eggs over. When they arrived they had been transferred into damp sand, and she was careful to keep them the right way up, but they were quite dimpled. I put them in a sealed container with 1:1 water and vermiculite by weight, and set the temperature so that it stayed at 31 in the egg box. I put a large container of warm water in the incubator to help buffer the temperature as it was fluctuating a little in the beginning (29-31). The eggs got more dimply, so I added in the corner, not touching any eggs, some scrunched up damp paper towel. Most of the eggs turned yellow overnight and started to smell. There are a few left that look normal and aren't dimply any more, but they have yellow on them. I am not sure if it what I did, or if they were destined to fail from the get go. This was my first experience with eggs and now I am scared for any more to come! 

I would like to set up a more reliable incubator for python eggs, when the time comes, using the over water method. I may need some assistance though on how to do it.


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## reptalica (Nov 30, 2013)

Ingie I will post a link to a thread which had some awesome contributions re: water over. I will find it then edit this post with the info.

@Ingie and others curious about the water over method click on this link......some very informative information from respected forum members.

If you scroll down to post #12 by Slimebo this is the method I will be utilising for my Central Netted's. Looks the goods.

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/water-incubation-method-145685/


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## ingie (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks very much  I wish all the pictures were there, but I think I can work something out. Does anyone ever use a water heater in the water, as the heater?


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## Ramsayi (Dec 1, 2013)

GeckoJosh said:


> The over water technique seems to be really gaining popularity amongst experienced breeders, when done correctly it seems to be a very successful way to incubate reptile eggs.



I use the tried and true method vermic or perlite and have very good hatch rates as do most of the other old school guys that I know.For me if it aint broke don't fix it.


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## slide (Dec 1, 2013)

Ingie, im not sure if people do use water heaters but it should work, however I would think that there would be a bit of temp variation with them. But worth a trial I suppose. 
Most people just use a normal incubator. 
Essentially the incubating tubs are set up with a tub, some form of spacer and egg crate/mesh. The spacers are placed on the bottom of the tub and the egg grate/mesh is placed on the spacers to suspend the eggs above 20-30mm water. 
I use a plastic cutlery drawer divider thing from bunnings cut to fit the tub as my spacer but I put egg crate over the top of the cutlery drawer as its holes are small and the humidity tends to form droplets that bridge across the small holes. Hard to explain but pic says a thousand words














No space to slip down the sides and drown. I doubt they would drown though, they could easily climb back up. 

Hope this helps,
Aaron


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## GeckoJosh (Dec 1, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> I use the tried and true method vermic or perlite and have very good hatch rates as do most of the other old school guys that I know.For me if it aint broke don't fix it.



Yeah I prefer Perlite as well.


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## ingie (Dec 2, 2013)

Thanks so much


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## The_Geeza (Dec 2, 2013)

Ramsayi said:


> I use the tried and true method vermic or perlite and have very good hatch rates as do most of the other old school guys that I know.For me if it aint broke don't fix it.


When people say 50/50 it's by weight is it not? Tho seems not a lot of water?... I was planning the over water in case I got the % wrong


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## No-two (Dec 2, 2013)

I've tried vermiculite, perlite and over water with good success in all methods. However for ease I use perlite, its very forgiving and I generally have great success with hatch rates. 50/50 by weight, it will always seem quiet dry as well however works fine.


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## reptalica (Dec 2, 2013)

I have just set up my incubator (converted bar fridge) so that I can give it a test run before the Netted drops, IMO within the next week. I have gone with Slimebo's method. I have a 4 drawer container with 10mm vermiculite (dry form) in each compartment sitting inside the Sistema outer tub which has a vermiculite/water mix. The 4 drawer container is sitting about 10-20mm off the dampened vermiculite. I have the Habistat Pulse Proportional set up. The temp probe inside the sistema reads around 30-31c, however the humidity on the gauge is sitting around 20%.

Could someone explain why so low? Does it take "x" amount of hours for the humidity to build up or????

Cheers.


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## Trimeresurus (Dec 2, 2013)

reptalica said:


> I have just set up my incubator (converted bar fridge) so that I can give it a test run before the Netted drops, IMO within the next week. I have gone with Slimebo's method. I have a 4 drawer container with 10mm vermiculite (dry form) in each compartment sitting inside the Sistema outer tub which has a vermiculite/water mix. The 4 drawer container is sitting about 10-20mm off the dampened vermiculite. I have the Habistat Pulse Proportional set up. The temp probe inside the sistema reads around 30-31c, however the humidity on the gauge is sitting around 20%.
> 
> Could someone explain why so low? Does it take "x" amount of hours for the humidity to build up or????
> 
> Cheers.



Your gauge is very likely broken. 20% is far less than Melbourne ambient humidity. A sealed container with moisture and heat would be a lot higher than that as you would expect.


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## reptalica (Dec 2, 2013)

Especially today


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## Trimeresurus (Dec 2, 2013)

reptalica said:


> Especially today



Yep, a bit warm!


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