# Putting Rats into a freezer to kill them?



## Davo66 (Jan 26, 2011)

Hi all,

On numerous occasions I have read, and heard, that some people place their feed rodents into their freezer to kill them humanely? As I have never done this I had a limited opinion until recently. A mate recently told me he had killed a large adult female rat by placing her into the freezer and that I could collect it. So over I go to get it and when he takes it out of the freezer the animal has blood around the lower half of its body, and there is rat crap everywhere. My immediate response was to ask what he had done to it. My mate assures me she was alive and well when he popped her into the freezer. 

From this I have deduced, the freezing method is not as humane and painless as I have read. For an animal to make such a mess of it's self tells me it suffered, thrashed about and fought for it's life. I accept this method works for reptiles and amphibians as they are cold blooded and shut down in the cold but a mammal doesn't shut down until the pain of cold kills it. I am now converted to not freezing rodents to kill them and people either use the CO2 method, (which I have also never witnessed) or they simply snap the rodents neck or crack it's head, good and proper to kill it instantly.

Interested in other peoples point of view on this one, or other humane methods of killing rodents.

Cheers


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## MrThumper (Jan 26, 2011)

I'll only buy rodents euthanised via CO2


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

You do not place reptile straight into the freezer. You have to put them in a fridge first so they go to sleep. And no you dont place mamals straight into the freezer/.


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## Jen (Jan 26, 2011)

IMO, from what I have read, and from research done for my old job, freezing to death is not a pleasant or in any way a humane experience. Learn Cervical Dislocation (yeah, yeah, Jen advocating CD again) it is fast, painless and humane when performed correctly.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 26, 2011)

Freezing is, frankly, a wicked thing to do to any animal. It is just plain barbaric - how would you cope with being shoved into a freezer until you die? Even reptiles will suffer in a freezer, as their extremities freeze and their brains are still working and sensing pain...

You should never have been converted TO freezing rodents to kill them in the first place. If your freezer had a glass top and you could see what the animals went through during the hours it takes them to die...

Jamie


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## Tsubakai (Jan 26, 2011)

I think you'll find that the fridge/freezer is not recommended for reptiles either. Check the AVA policies I'm pretty sure they've been updated to advise against using hypothermia for euthanasia.


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

What are the AVA policies?

If you need documentation to kill a snake, see a vet. IMO its just like steping on ants.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Fishermen use ice to kill their catch all the time and QLD websites recommend the freezer for humanely killing toads.... I dunno people say they just go to sleep.


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## Jen (Jan 26, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Fishermen use ice to kill their catch all the time and QLD websites recommend the freezer for humanely killing toads.... I dunno people say they just go to sleep.


 
Mammals and reptiles/amphibians/fish are different physiologically...


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

Did I mention anything warm blooded?


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

I do know someone who kills mice by freezing. I can't believe it would be humane, It would take hours for them to even die.


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## spilota_variegata (Jan 26, 2011)

I tried this once - and once only. I put three medium sized rats in a box and put them in the freezer. A couple of days later I opened the box and found three very cold shivering rats, still very much alive in the box. I still have nightmares about it. I can only imagine how cold they must have been and vowed never to do it again. Naturally, the 3 ratsicles were placed back in their enclosure and recovered, living a life of luxury until they died of old age. I could never bring myself round to killing them once I had accidentally tortured them.

Please don't try to kill rats by freezing. It is very inhumane.


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

A heard a swift rap to the back of the neck also works. Maybe some snoop dog or puff daddy.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

I've had a mild case of hypothermia it wasn't painful just uncomfortable you can't stop shaking even after you are warm. I wouldn't freeze any endotherms.


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## Jen (Jan 26, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Did I mention anything warm blooded?


 
Defensive much? I didn't say you did, but the op asked about rats - which are warm blooded.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 26, 2011)

The topic seemed to change to talk about reptiles. Thats the only reason I gave these examples.


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## Airlie (Jan 26, 2011)

I brought reps up because it was metioned in the original post, Throwing them straight in the freezer is surely crule. An hour in the veggy crisper will send them painlessly to sleep.


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## FAY (Jan 27, 2011)

It is also illegal to freeze live rodents. See below rule 15.

15.No member may make a post, thread or visitor message that encourages others to break any law, or promotes illegal activity (for example, keeping without a licence, illegally taking animals from the wild, smuggling, wiring your own cages, feeding live rodents or freezing live rodents)


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## Fuscus (Jan 27, 2011)

Davo66 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> On numerous occasions I have read, and heard, that some people place their feed rodents into their freezer to kill them humanely?


Pinkies - yes (they have a higher tolerance for CO2)
Anything else - no



Dannyboi said:


> I've had a mild case of hypothermia it wasn't painful just uncomfortable you can't stop shaking even after you are warm. I wouldn't freeze any endotherms.


I've had bad hypothermia and, quite frankly, I'd rather stick Knitting needles in my ears;


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## Jen (Jan 27, 2011)

Pinkies - yes (they have a higher tolerance for CO2) - Even with pinkies it is never necessary to freeze them alive, just pinch their neck very firmly and sever the spinal column.


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

Isn't there a poison that leaves the system that can be used to kill rodents painlessly?


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## Sel (Jan 27, 2011)

This is weird..we had this convo the other night in chat..
It was decided Jens method of cervical dislocation was the best and most humane way, IF you know how to do it.
I dont know how..so CO2 for me, until jen comes over and shows me


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## Jen (Jan 27, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> Isn't there a poison that leaves the system that can be used to kill rodents painlessly?


 
If the rodent is dead how would it leave the system? But CO2 isn't harmful to the snake in the amount they would ingest. 

(Still advocating for CD tho...easy, free, fast)

Aww Sel, I will be back in NSW sometime, I'll let you know, we'll have a class lol


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## Sel (Jan 27, 2011)

wooo 

*hides the tweezers*


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

apparently insulin leaves the system before it kills you. This is supposed to be painful though so there has to be a painless drug that leaves the system and the after effects kill you like a numbing injection or something.


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2011)

Once I froze rats to kill them because I ran out of vinegar and bicarb halfway through trying to gas them (this is before I bought myself a soda stream). The next day I went out to the freezer and found the male had outlived the female (I hope) and eaten part of her possibly out of craziness or because he felt he needed to eat to stave off the cold. I felt so terrible I almost gave up on breeding for good. I would *NEVER* recommend freezing to anyone. 
I have found that some people say CO2 is inhumane too. Can anyone confirm this? Mine tend to get a little scared from the sound of the air hissing through the tube (and maybe from not being able to breathe?) but then they are passed out within about 20 or 30 seconds and gone within a minute.


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## Airlie (Jan 27, 2011)

A friend of mine uses a device from pet one called the 'critter roller'. He can almost fit 50 rat in the largest moddel availiable and drops it straight into a 20 litre bucket of water. I said "no-way they would take forever to drown". "He said that would be true if there was only one roddent in there it would hold its breath but with lots of them struggling against each other its quick". I said "how quick"? He said, I walk away to get some glad bags and some newspaper to tip them on and when i get back there all dead" Then he leaves them in the water for a few more minutes incase one revives when tipped out. 
I thinks it abit rough, I will be using a high pressure nitrogen bottle which i get from work, and try not to blow them apart without a regulator.


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## Chris1 (Jan 27, 2011)

i feel a bit sick to think he chucked a live rat in the freezer,...poor animal, it would have suffered beyond anything i can imagine.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 27, 2011)

Sel said:


> This is weird..we had this convo the other night in chat..
> It was decided Jens method of cervical dislocation was the best and most humane way, IF you know how to do it.
> I dont know how..so CO2 for me, until jen comes over and shows me


 I've been shown how to do it recently, Il show you how when I get those mice of you


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## Airlie (Jan 27, 2011)

Whats gassing like do they spazm or just pass out?


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## PilbaraPythons (Jan 27, 2011)

Please tell your mate from me he is a cruel bastard.


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2011)

Mine just pass out. Like I said though they seem to get a little upset at first


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

I have seen mouse traps that seal and are then to be placed in water to which they fill almost completely and drown the captured rodent. It must be common place to drown things which have been said to tread water for 7 days straight.


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## Airlie (Jan 27, 2011)

It would make me sick to sit there and watch him do it. I would try and stop him but he is a vietnam vet and he would probably stab me.


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## MatE (Jan 27, 2011)

My mate breeds thousands of rats,ive watched him use CO2 on them.If an animal is under stress it will urinate itself.These rats with gas dont do that at all they just go to sleep,its really the only clean way to do it other than blunt trauma to the head but that is messy.Pinkies do take along time to go under,but still the best way.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 27, 2011)

If you put pinkies into a plastic bag, squeeze the air out, then fill it with CO2, they die very quickly. Leave air in there, and they take ages to die. 

Jamie


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2011)

MatE said:


> My mate breeds thousands of rats,ive watched him use CO2 on them.If an animal is under stress it will urinate itself.These rats with gas dont do that at all they just go to sleep,its really the only clean way to do it other than blunt trauma to the head but that is messy.Pinkies do take along time to go under,but still the best way.


 
How quickly does your friend introduce the gas? This is the main thing I'm unsure about when I do mine. Is it right just to fill the container with it as quick as possible or should it be a slow/gentle thing?


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## Fluke (Jan 27, 2011)

Where can you buy co2 from ?


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2011)

I use a soda stream. I think that's what a lot of people on here use. Or if you're going to be doing a lot of them you can get the cylinders from brewery shops


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## MatE (Jan 27, 2011)

He uses a big tub with a hole in the side and a tube from the gas bottle.You dont need to blast them,just think about it all you need to do is replace the oxygen with CO2.If there in a clear tub you can watch to gauge how much.I have an account with BOC,as you need to hire bottles for welding.But if you look online you could buy a small bottle than take it to a marine aquarium shop and they could fill it for you.


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## Fluke (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks I read on here that someone recommended drowning over gassing so. The gas dosnt end up in the snake and so the snake gets more moisture ?


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## saximus (Jan 27, 2011)

I guess it's up to you but I think about it like this. I'd prefer to go to sleep and not wake up (ie from gas) than drown to death


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## spotlight (Jan 27, 2011)

Airlie said:


> You do not place reptile straight into the freezer. You have to put them in a fridge first so they go to sleep. And no you dont place mamals straight into the freezer/.


you can but cold blooded animals down this way like crabs or reptiles but never mammals as its extreamly painful
the feet and hands get that cold before death and the animal passes out from the pain (not good!!!)


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

saximus said:


> I guess it's up to you but I think about it like this. I'd prefer to go to sleep and not wake up (ie from gas) than drown to death


I have read the drowning is comfortable as once you realise you are dying you relax and in some cases men have become aroused from drowning.


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## jamesbecker (Jan 27, 2011)

has someone ever told you that drowning is comfortable? no, because they are dead

imo death in any sence will be plainfull or have some sort of trauma towards the animal ..

ps. sorry for the original comment lol


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

People have been brought back.... I know a guy who's heart stopped for over a minute he didn't speak of pain. Doctors can tell if people are in pain because of the receptors in the brain that show it. Studies are done all the time, all I am saying is that something I read a while back said that if you are drowning then you realise what is happening and calm down and get comfortable.


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## GeckoJosh (Jan 27, 2011)

Thats total bull, if you pass out from lack of oxygen you dont remember anything, Iv almost drowned twice and it was a horrible experience (I didnt pass out)


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## Dannyboi (Jan 27, 2011)

If I could remember where I read it I would give you the authors name so you could argue with him/her not my argument.


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## hornet (Jan 27, 2011)

Geckoman said:


> Thats total bull, if you pass out from lack of oxygen you dont remember anything, Iv almost drowned twice and it was a horrible experience (I didnt pass out)


 
agreed. I almost drowned in a rip as a child, very traumatic


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## Davo66 (Jan 28, 2011)

Thankful to everyone who shared their opinions, beliefs and experience. My mate is not a cruel person, he was doing what he believed to be one of the accepted methods of killing rodents. I will certainly be doing my best to convert him to either snapping their necks or CO2. 
I have never frozen a rat personally, usually prefer blunt force trauma, 
Cheers


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## moosenoose (Jan 28, 2011)

spilota_variegata said:


> I tried this once - and once only. I put three medium sized rats in a box and put them in the freezer. A couple of days later I opened the box and found three very cold shivering rats, still very much alive in the box. I still have nightmares about it. I can only imagine how cold they must have been and vowed never to do it again. Naturally, the 3 ratsicles were placed back in their enclosure and recovered, living a life of luxury until they died of old age. I could never bring myself round to killing them once I had accidentally tortured them.
> 
> Please don't try to kill rats by freezing. It is very inhumane.


 
That's a good ending to a horror story. Unfortunately these things happen and people should be made aware that it's an extremely unpleasant death for a rodent (or almost anything in that regard).

I had a friend of mine euthanize rabbits the same way. I was horrified when I found out! Please, don't anyone out there continue this. Out of sight shouldn't mean out of mind. It's a horrific, slow and painful way to die. Compassion goes a long way in this hobby, or at least it should.


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## montay (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi - freezing an animal is incredibly wicked. The freezing method causes ice crystals to form in the blood vessels, causing a long and excruciating death. No animal on earth deserves this treatment. Shame on your mate!


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## Davo66 (Jan 29, 2011)

There is no shame on my mate, he did what he believed was a recognised practice, it was a mistake, I went into great depths yesterday explaining to him the information that has been provided to me in the post. He intends not to do it that way from now on. 
I have received a number of different methods to do this job so thank you, as far as the flaming goes, give it a rest. 
Ever since I can remember members on this site have been complaining about the flaming they get when they ask an honest question. If people were less incline to get on the bandwagon and hack on a person asking a question or requesting advice maybe, just maybe more members would post questions which would help all Herp enthusiast and do so without the guilt treatment. Just a thought. No more replies thanks, have read enough.


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## saximus (Jan 29, 2011)

I know you said no more replies but I just wanted to say I agree entirely. I've asked what I thought to be reasonable questions before and been flamed. Don't give up some of us are still willing to help. Like I and others have said this mistake has been made before and will be made again by people who just don't know. As long as your friend knows the right way now all is good


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 29, 2011)

Dannyboi said:


> People have been brought back.... I know a guy who's heart stopped for over a minute he didn't speak of pain. Doctors can tell if people are in pain because of the receptors in the brain that show it. Studies are done all the time, all I am saying is that something I read a while back said that if you are drowning then you realise what is happening and calm down and get comfortable.



Now I know how to go - just swim out in the surf, so far that I can't get back, realise there's nothing else to do but drown, relax and let it happen. Fabulous way to go... in fact, let's all do it! The beaches would be littered with relaxed, happy, smiling corpses. Maybe on your planet Dannyboi... but not on mine.

Jamie


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## Airlie (Jan 29, 2011)

Its not a good comparison. Humans are an intelligent apex predator. Rats are a highly preyed appon food item that reproduce in large numbers and have a short life span.


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## Pythoninfinite (Jan 29, 2011)

Airlie said:


> Its not a good comparison. Humans are an intelligent apex predator. Rats are a highly preyed appon food item that reproduce in large numbers and have a short life span.



What's not a good comparison? Rats are intelligent, sentient beings as well, regardless of their place in the food chain, how fecund they are, or how long they live. Is your desultory description of rats an excuse to abuse them?

Jamie


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## Dannyboi (Jan 29, 2011)

Iv'e never killed a rodent that wasn't already dying.....stuff the cat dragged in kinda thing. I have a dislike to rodents ever since my brother got a rat as they stink up the place but I still treat them right. I say you can kill whatever you want so long as there are plenty of them and you do it right. Sure rats are intelligent but so are pigs people still eat pig.


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## FAY (Jan 29, 2011)

Davo66 said:


> Thankful to everyone who shared their opinions, beliefs and experience. My mate is not a cruel person, he was doing what he believed to be one of the accepted methods of killing rodents. I will certainly be doing my best to convert him to either snapping their necks or CO2.
> I have never frozen a rat personally, usually prefer blunt force trauma,
> Cheers



It is up to us on here to educate people. Same as there are still people out there that still think it is OK to feed live. I make a point of telling them otherwise. I show them a diamond python that was given to us from the vet's, covered in big scars inflicted from a rat. Hopefully, that will make them think.


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