# Exotic (Please Read Carefully)



## bulletproofkid (Jun 26, 2009)

Hello, have created a poll on whether legalisation of exotics is considered a good or bad move in the Australian community. I would really appreciate it if we could have only constructive comments and answers to the poll. This is for a school report and is relatively urgent so it would be great for anyones opinion. Please no negative comments


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## scorps (Jun 26, 2009)

Do a search you will find all the answers you need, instead of just the same old people bickering again?


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## waruikazi (Jun 26, 2009)

Like that'll happen, it hasn't managed to happen int the past so why now.


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## snakelady-viper (Jun 26, 2009)

Well you never know. The amount that are bred in Australia there would be no reason to smuggle


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## -Peter (Jun 26, 2009)

I dont agree with either response.


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## JasonL (Jun 26, 2009)

-Peter said:


> I dont agree with either response.



Same.


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## abbott75 (Jun 26, 2009)

Do I even need to post...?


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## slacker (Jun 26, 2009)

-Peter said:


> I dont agree with either response.



Nor do I.


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## pythons-rock! (Jun 26, 2009)

Being the country with arguably the most popular species in demand by international herpetologists, we needn't look beyond our borders for our herpetocultural satisfaction. We are very lucky and should focus more on our own elusive species (i.e such as the Oenpelli python) for breeding and distribution in the reptile trade, rather than import. The dangers inherent in importing international species are the blight of other nations, which we should not risk unnecessarily here in our insular nation. The U.S are already trying to ban or restrict their trade in pythons, due to the feral population of Burmese pythons that are out of control in the Florida Everglades. With diseases such as OPMV and IBD, which can have lengthy periods of dormancy before any symptoms are noticed, it is a great risk to allow reptiles in and out of the country, regardless of quarantine. Besides, with states like Tasmania banning the importation of pythons for private keeping and W.A banning the importation of any reptiles for keeping, we are a very long way off ever importing reptiles internationally! Enjoy your reptiles Australia


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## Retic (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't believe so many people have voted for "and the current system works " :lol:


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## -Peter (Jun 26, 2009)

boa said:


> I don't believe so many people have voted for "and the current system works " :lol:


Its obviously working well for some:|


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## Snakes1 (Jun 26, 2009)

I have spent many years living overseas where exotic reptiles are allowed with little or no problems , it amazes me how our Government doesnt trust the Australian People to act responsibly enough to keep exotic reptiles, I really do believe that Australian Herpetologists are really missing out on discovering wonderful things in the reptile world .
I think a lot of the problems stem down to the invasion of the cane toad, people who know their animals will be aware that a chamelean escaping, or being released into the wild is'nt going to take over Australia , as there hard enough to get breeding as it is.
maybe each species should be studied individually i.e the multiplying caperbillities and a decision made on each seperate reptile.
After all people can import cats and look at the damage they cause to our wildlife .


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## Rainbow-Serpent (Jun 26, 2009)

The current system doesn't really seem to work as aussie reptile keepers want to keep other species and boas etc are already living here, just being kept secret. I think the Australian Government should make exotics class 2, and have tougher rules with them, but should trust Australian Reptile Lovers to act responsibly with exotics, GIVE US TRUST PEOPLE!!!


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## Hillbilly666 (Jun 27, 2009)

Rainbow-Serpent said:


> The current system doesn't really seem to work as aussie reptile keepers want to keep other species and boas etc are already living here, just being kept secret. I think the Australian Government should make exotics class 2, and have tougher rules with them, but should trust Australian Reptile Lovers to act responsibly with exotics, GIVE US TRUST PEOPLE!!!




Agreed, i have only just recently joined the herp comunity in Aus and i have already seen several illegal species for sale by some people that prolly arent responsible enough to really keep them. IMO many of the large constrictors are here and could quite easily pose a big risk to native spieces. If these species were legaly controlled then systems could be put in place to ensure that Alien species dont become a feral problem. 

However the scene in England is not really ideal either. When buying reptiles from some suplliers, Some of the time no information is available at all! with some reptiles and amphibians being sold with made up common names and not anything more. It could be quite worrieng to tip an agressive snake out of a bag and before even seeing it guessing what spieces it is and even if it is venomous or not. This was the result of pretty much uncontrolled reptile imports and was also far from ideal.


I think the Aussie government needs to be a little more realistic and less blinkered in this and may other isssues, it just seems somtime they take the approach of "just make it illegal" and that will fix the problem. Quite a lot of the time this attitude does not help at all..

Hillbilly


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## Retic (Jun 27, 2009)

There is little if any chance of someone buying a venomous snake by 'accident' in the UK as they are covered by the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. You could of course buy one illegally in the same way as you could here but if you bought a snake from a shop and didn't know the species it would be foolish at the very least.


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## redbellybite (Jun 27, 2009)

truthfully ...and this is not aimed at being nasty to anyone BUT 
With the amount of HELP MY SNAKES HAVE ESCAPED that happens on APS alone ..I am glad the laws are the way they are ...untill you can knock out the irresponsible permit holders ,who think their reptiles are like puppy dogs or pussy cats ,dont change a thing ...
And if they do by chance ,change the exotic law ...its should be the toughest permit to get and the penalties for breaking the law be very direct and jail term is incurred no more paying off the system , no ifs or buts about it ...


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## Retic (Jun 27, 2009)

While I see what you are saying what must be remembered is that currently there are NO regulations covering exotic reptiles other than them being illegal. If anyone thinks that little barrier for one second has stopped or even slowed the proliferation of exotics in this country is naive at best.


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## Hillbilly666 (Jun 27, 2009)

boa said:


> There is little if any chance of someone buying a venomous snake by 'accident' in the UK as they are covered by the Dangerous Wild Animals Act. You could of course buy one illegally in the same way as you could here but if you bought a snake from a shop and didn't know the species it would be foolish at the very least.




I'm sorry my friend but i was in the industry in England for quite some years. And it has happened several times through the years. Their controls are not very good at all with imports not being checked very often and alot of stuff being wild caught.

If not declared as a dangerous animal they can pass through the whole system unnoticed. Joe blogs pet shop can buy a wild caught "asian brown leaf snake" sight unseen with no real idea of what it could be until it is tipped out of the bag.


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## redbellybite (Jun 27, 2009)

That was my point Boa ...it is happening as with most illegal things in Australia (alot of people are still eating those funny cookies ) But my point was if it was to be made legal ..then that opens the flood gates for all ..and so only inhancing the chances of stuff ups and what nots ....That was why I said to have strict permit laws ..and heavy penalties for the wrong doers ....we will never squash any illegal activity outright ...but hope we can atleast guide the average law keeper to stay on the straight and narrow ...
alot of people think its their right to own animals ....its not ...its a privilege and should be treated that way ...


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## Retic (Jun 27, 2009)

Oh right, yes I see what you mean.


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## Snakes1 (Jun 27, 2009)

I agree with Hillbillies comments and also Boa's as all my snake keepeing was in the UK for over 30 years and although no licence was required i never came across an irrisponsible seller of snakes or a dangerous snake for that matter (not including the large Boas and Pythons of course).
All ileagle venomous snake keeping was driven underground and very easy to obtain if you really wanted one.
If its out in the open its far more easy to control, people wouldnt be too scared to tell the authorities that there exotic snake has escaped if need be .


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## licky (Jun 27, 2009)

i think that there are tons of people just waiting to cross breed everythin with anything, just to hav the next BIG seller. All these lavender striped ghost form blah blah snakes are just dumb. Once the governemnet lets people bring in exotics we will be using the carpet python like the ball pyton has been used in america.
NO the the introduction of exotics
WHATS WRONG WITH NATIVES>>????


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## eamonn (Jun 27, 2009)

licky said:


> WHATS WRONG WITH NATIVES>>????




???? I think we should appreciate the natives we have over here!


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## gecko-mad (Jun 27, 2009)

our natives are awesome! so are chameleons


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## Retic (Jun 27, 2009)

This has to be one of the weirdest posts I have ever read on here and that really is saying something :lol:
I think you will find that exotics were introduced many many years ago and what do exotics have to do with producing carpet pythons like Ball pythons ? Sorry but the whole post made no sense. 



licky said:


> i think that there are tons of people just waiting to cross breed everythin with anything, just to hav the next BIG seller. All these lavender striped ghost form blah blah snakes are just dumb. Once the governemnet lets people bring in exotics we will be using the carpet python like the ball pyton has been used in america.
> NO the the introduction of exotics
> WHATS WRONG WITH NATIVES>>????


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## derekm (Jun 27, 2009)

Given that exotics are being kept and most people think that ignoring that fact is a not good idea, banning appears to not be working as a deterrent, then regulation is a reasonable alternative. What, then, should an exotic regulation regime look like? Here are my ideas.
Exotic regulation should be covered by national laws rather than state laws.
Retain the ban on smuggling and increase the penalties.
Legitimise imports with whatever quarantine regime is recommended by herpetology/veterinary best practice.
Declare an amnesty on existing exotics so that they can be legally registered.
Retain a DNA sample of each registered exotic (cost to be covered by exotic licence fee) so that escapees and any progeny, if caught, could be traced back to the registered owner who would be heavily penalised.
Increase the penalties for keeping unregistered exotics to the point where the risk is seriously not worth it.
Enforce annual inspections of exotics and their enclosures (again, cost to be covered by exotic licence fee).
Have separate licensing requirements for exotic keepers and breeders, with stricter enclosure security and record keeping requirements for breeders.
Only allow people with an exotic keepers licence to have desexed exotics, while only registered exotic breeders would be allowed to keep fertile exotics.


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## redbellybite (Jun 27, 2009)

EXOTICS ..once that door opens we can be dealing with anything from reptiles ,spiders ,furry animals the list could go on and on ...allow one lot in say reptiles and you will get people protesting about being fair for all exotic lovers ...I truely think its a bad idea ..even though I myself would love to own a few ...the BIG PICTURE is scary ...


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## derekm (Jun 27, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> I truely think its a bad idea ..


I agree that exotics in Australia is a bad idea. My argument is that, since we appear to be unable to prevent it, unregulated exotics is an even worse idea.


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## Lonewolf (Jun 27, 2009)

redbellybite said:


> EXOTICS ..once that door opens we can be dealing with anything from reptiles ,spiders ,furry animals the list could go on and on ...allow one lot in say reptiles and you will get people protesting about being fair for all exotic lovers ...I truely think its a bad idea ..even though I myself would love to own a few ...the BIG PICTURE is scary ...


 
yer i do hafe to agree with you 100% there are so many exotic animal the if i had the (legal) chance to own i would 


and its not just the reptile world that is afected but this problem of exotic animals 
like exotic rats and cats


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## licky (Jun 27, 2009)

This has to be one of the weirdest posts I have ever read on here and that really is saying something :lol:
I think you will find that exotics were introduced many many years ago and what do exotics have to do with producing carpet pythons like Ball pythons ? Sorry but the whole post made no sense. -- BOA

How does it not make sense. In america they like to breed ball pythons with everything. coming up with weird colour patterns and jacking up the prices of balls because they are coloured differnetly. What i am sayin is if we open the doors up people will think it'd be fun to breed a carpet with a burmese, a scrubby with a retic. this cycle will probably continue until we have a jungle python looking like a stimson. Keep out the exotics unless they are for Zoo purposes!


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## falconboy (Jun 27, 2009)

Maybe a new poll with 2 options:

1. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads
2. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads


.


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## eamonn (Jun 27, 2009)

falconboy said:


> Maybe a new poll with 2 options:
> 
> 1. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads
> 2. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads
> ...




Im for option one.


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## Retic (Jun 27, 2009)

So you are talking about the Ball Python morphs ? You do realise they are pure Ball Pythons that are selectively bred to produce all the different variants ? Most of the founding animals originate from a wild caught animal and are bred with a different morph to produce the coloured animals you mention.
Of course there are a few people crossing them with other species but it is incredibly rare as it is here. Making them legal wont promote or increase it happening, there are many 1000's of them here now so if people want to do it they will and undoubtedly have already. 
Your earlier posts doesn't make sense because you are saying Ball Python morphs originate through hybridisation which of course is untrue. 



licky said:


> How does it not make sense. In america they like to breed ball pythons with everything. coming up with weird colour patterns and jacking up the prices of balls because they are coloured differnetly. What i am sayin is if we open the doors up people will think it'd be fun to breed a carpet with a burmese, a scrubby with a retic. this cycle will probably continue until we have a jungle python looking like a stimson. Keep out the exotics unless they are for Zoo purposes!


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## Kyro (Jun 27, 2009)

I think the relevant authorities need to concentrate on a major overhaul of the current licensing sytems & laws regarding keeping native reptiles before they ever consider legal importation of exotic reptiles. A good start would probably be having the same rules & regulations for each state.

I also think aussie keepers need to learn how to lock enclosures before we worry about keeping legal exotics.:lol:


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## cockney red (Jun 27, 2009)

falconboy said:


> Maybe a new poll with 2 options:
> 
> 1. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads
> 2. Should we ban these constant same old Exotic threads
> ...


I'll go option 2, just because option 1 was taken.....on a serious note, has anyone noticed that some people are crossing Diamonds and Coastals, and selling them as pure Diamonds..:shock:


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