# Betta/Siamese Fighting Fish water treatments?



## Grogshla (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi there friends!
I tried to search for some information on what water treatments or other things a Betta fish will need. I am planning to get one today and don't want to be fed the wrong info from any of the pet shops. Should i get some sort of water test kits or anything else for the health of the fish?
I would greatly appreciate some help here.
Thanks a heap


----------



## Specks (Jun 26, 2011)

just tap water then use chlorine neutraliser or water ager (same thing) to the recommended dosage and you will be fine, pretty easy fish to keep
hope that helps


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 26, 2011)

thanks mate. Much appreciated!
I was planning to keep him in a 10L tank with no heater or filter. Now I have heard that they need 27degrees c and a filter? Can any1 clarify?


----------



## Darijo (Jun 26, 2011)

26*C - 28*C with a filter, My first pet was a Veil Tail Siamese Fighting Fish, he was a curious little one  he's gone to fish heaven though.


----------



## dickyknee (Jun 26, 2011)

They can be kept in a plain old fish bowl , but for the best results I used to heat mine to around 24 or so , PH 6.8-7.2 , Very low water flow filtration was best too.


----------



## Smithers (Jun 26, 2011)

Fishchick on youtube for a display of stunners to drool over. You'd think they'd change the name to Thai Fighter since the country's name changed in 1939 from Siam to Thailand.


----------



## reptileKev81 (Jun 26, 2011)

I had a mate who kept one in a med-large wine glass, lol
I told him to get it a bigger bowl but he never did.
They are a pretty hardy and forgiving fish, a bit boring too keep though, unless you have more than one in the same tank, lols


----------



## sesa-sayin (Jun 26, 2011)

you can actually keep them in a very large jar, but in that case he would have to be in a heated fish/plant room...in nature, they do not swim much. they just sit under leaves and the like, and as previously pointed out , stillish water


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks fellaz.
I will try and find a small tank with heater and filter combo.

do any of u house them with other fish such as guppies or neons??
maybe a 20L or 30L combo would be good with a siamese and some smaller fish. More room for all?


----------



## Darijo (Jun 26, 2011)

This Website also has useful information FightingFish.com.au - Devoted to Siamese fighting fish (Betta Splendens)


----------



## Smithers (Jun 26, 2011)

Don't put with Neons they will chew on the tails of your fighter......Corydorus (bottom feeders) go well and bristlenose catfish. Smaller gouramii's also do well with Fighters. Even glowlight tetras I had with mine just watch any new additions you add....with such a small body of water your best to just keep a couple of fish maximum. imo.


----------



## PeppersGirl (Jun 26, 2011)

Also depends on the fighter you get. If it comes from a little seperate tank in the aquarium you're more likely to have it damage other fish, however if it has been previously housed with other fish they are more tolerant of them... at least that's the conclusion we reached after years of keeping them in a community tank


----------



## Defective (Jun 26, 2011)

also watch the kH (no not pH, fish keepers will know what i'm talking about). kH is the biggest killer in fish, i asked a specialist what i was doing wrong and he said that its the kH levels.


----------



## Tildy (Jun 26, 2011)

All fighters need heat. I have had mine die in the winter cause I didnt do my research and kept it without a heater. They arent that expensive so definately get one. Also just because they can live in dirtier water doesnt mean that its particularly good for them so go out and get a little filter unit. They dont usually fight any other fish except thier own species but i would have its own tank just in case. I have kept mine in community tanks before with no issues at all. Dont get any of the ammo lock or anything else the pet shop tries to sell u. Just dechlorinator but check on the bottle and make sure it takes out chlorine and chloramines. When you first put the fish in the tank do pretty regular water changes cause the filter will be growing the bacteria it needs and there will be a build up of toxic waste that you will need to keep down. If your fish's fins start looking raggy it usually means too much ammonia and time for more frequent water changes. Go for like 50% of the water at least once a week and see how that goes. Only ever wash the filter and the filter media in tank water cause the chlorine in the tap water will kill all the good bacteria u need to grow. And dont wash your substrate or decorations for at least a month cause the bacteria will grow on/in them too.

They get alot more interesting if you make thier environment more interesting cause lets face it, if ur kept in an ornamental vase with rocks on the bottom and not much else how are you going to spend your days? Id be depressed on the bottom of my tank too. My fighters play in the current from thier filter and I taught one of them to jump out of the water to get the food out of my fingers. Ohh, and get Betta Balls for food not tropical flakes. They are more carnivorous than your average tropical. They are also very intelligent, very pretty and have big personalities. If you need any more info, I wont ramble more but pm me and ill tell u. Been keeping these things for years.


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks Tildy. Great information. I like practical info!!!!


----------



## Smithers (Jun 26, 2011)

Prime* is probably the best for dechlorination I have used. Just like snake keeping everyone has their preferred way of doing things...I did a weekly water change of 10%, Test kits are useful but costly. If you were to get one or two I'd go for the Ammonia test and Ph. Then when you get home post a pic


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 26, 2011)

thanks Brett!!!


----------



## Tildy (Jun 26, 2011)

Ohh and one other thing, dont worry about the pH up and down chemicals. Fish suffer much more from pH changes then from incorrect pH. Find out what the pH of your tap water is and if its more on the alkaline side you can usually use your water changes to stabalise the pH since water usually goes more acid the dirtier it gets. If you are going for a set of test kits get Aquarium Pharmecutecals kits cause they are really good. Test strips are pretty inaccurate. They arent desperately necessary with this fish though as it is quite hardy. The larger water changes are just till the tank cycles so that the waste doesnt build up too much. The fish shop might even be able to test your water for you. Ask them about it.


----------



## PaulH (Jun 26, 2011)

Smithers said:


> Fishchick on youtube for a display of stunners to drool over. You'd think they'd change the name to Thai Fighter since the country's name changed in 1939 from Siam to Thailand.


 
I have to agree fishchick has the best Bettas around she will ship them aswell.


----------



## thals (Jun 26, 2011)

Also just a note when you do carry out water changes, they are quite sensitive to fluctuations in the temps of the water so try ensure the water you've just changed is of a similar temp range. General temps b/w 20-30 though 24-26 is best (28 for spawning). I quite enjoy keeping mine, shame they only live a few years. Also in regards feeding, I find Australian Freeze Dried Blackworms best, the loose kind, all natural and brings out their colours naturally and amazingly well. In regards keeping with other fish, I'd only suggest Bristlenose as they keep out of each others way (BN lurking towards the bottom of tank and bettas up top) and they help clear any excess algae and other pollutants in the water so are naturally a great addition.

All the best with your new venture, hope you enjoy your bettas to come, they are highly addictive and a pleasure to own


----------



## Defective (Jun 26, 2011)

bloodworms are a good food source as well


----------



## Em1986 (Jun 26, 2011)

I just wanted to add in that bristlenoses get fairly big and aren't really suited to a smaller tank. 
When doing water changes may i suggest that you get a small plastic tub (the ones on wheels) and use a water ager and a small heater in it. Set this up the day before you plan on doing your water change. That way there will be less stress when you change the water because it will be around the same temp.
Also be careful with over-feeding them, they are quite gutsy fish and will give you 'the look' for more food lol. I used to feed mine 3 small pellets a day after learning the hard way about over-feeding (i had one that ate about 6 or so pellets and regurgitated the whole lot afterwards).
YYou also need to be very careful of what typs of filter you use because if it is quite strong it could suck your fish's tail into it and it will end up dying. The best way i kept mine was in a vase/jar or in a 3 bay tank i bought with a 25W heater in the middle section set quite low (mainly used in winter but they were in the loungeroom with gas heating so it didn't need to be set at a higher temp) and it heated all 3 sections. The other option you could use is a mini heater, they look sort of like reptile heat mats but you use them inside the tank and they would take up way less room than a glass heater.
They are quite hardy and a great fish to keep IMO and there are so many colours and tail styles to choose from in the males. Some females also have nice colour these days.
Good luck and be sure to post a pic when you get him/them (can be addictive)


----------



## Tildy (Jun 26, 2011)

Just dont run hot water out of for tap for them unless you are 100% sure you dont have copper pipes. Copper can be deadly to fish and the hot water leeches it out of the pipes. Hehehe, we overwhelming you yet?


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 27, 2011)

thanks heaps for all that great information!!!!!

I ended up with an aqua one basic kit. It is 30L and has a light and under gravel filter. Not sure if the filter will be any good coz it looks cheap but time will tell. Do you all think it will be sufficient for a single betta splenden???
Thanks a heap


----------



## Smithers (Jun 27, 2011)

Great choice Adam  Just be carefull of the intake as their tails are so big sometimes they can wrap around the intake hose and get stuck. I used to put a pre filter sponge on the intake to stop this happening....excited to see the next instalment now 

Ignore that,..just saw it has a under gravel filter by the looks of it.

If you can try and put the powerhead at the top of the tank on the pipe that runs down to the under gravel filter.


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 27, 2011)

thanks mate!! 
I will try and bring the powerhead up a bit. Cant wait to get some water in it and run it in for a few days before bringing in a little fishy.

I would love to get a live plant for the tank. I hear they are great for the water. Is there any type of aquarium plants that are best suited to the bettas? I was thinking something with big leaves so he can hide.


----------



## Smithers (Jun 27, 2011)

Every now and again for picture purposes you can pop a mirror to the side of the tank to see him strutting around fanning his fins up against the glass. Thinking another male is in range,..don't do it to often as it does stress the fishy


----------



## Grogshla (Jun 27, 2011)

Hope to get the tank up and running on thursday night and then get a fish on saturday!! can any1 suggest a good place to get bettas within an hours drive of wollongong?


----------



## Tildy (Jun 30, 2011)

Live plants are awesome but come with thier own set of fun and wont be as good with an undergravel filter since they eat all the stuff that burys in the gravel but the filter is sucking all that out. If u want one try a Java fern strapped to a bit of driftwood. Hardy and not sunk in the gravel. Get lots of fake plants as well. They love playing in the decorations and it just plain looks better Imo. Also, a good idea is a timer for the light if the light has a separate plug to the rest. Fish need a fairly normal day/night cycle and too much light will make the algae grow. All 4 of my tanks are on timers and I tell u what, its great peace of mind if you ever have to go anywhere and leave ur fish in the care of someone else knowing that at least that is taken care of. See if you can pick up a thermometer as well, ive hear horror stories of heaters going spazzy and killing the fish so a thermometer may help with that. None of my heaters have (touch wood) but I feel safer if I can check the temp every now and then and know its still good.

That tank you have chosen looks fantastic for what you want! Im sure you will have a very enjoyable set-up in no time.


----------



## nakerz_the_herp (Jun 30, 2011)

Nice tank. Make sure you cycle it. Just do a quick google search on the nitrogen cycle. UGF (under gravel filters) aren't the best filter. If you can get it, a sponge filter would be better. Both of by bettas are in a 20L tank each and one has a heavily planted tank and the others is mostly driftwood. Make sure you get some live plants. The fighters love them and the plants improve the water quality. I second getting a bottle of Prime.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 3, 2011)

thanks for the info Nakerz. 
i will try and get a sponge filter. What sort would you suggest and what are they worth? Why would you think that UGF are not a good choice?. 
I will try and find that Prime brand that you are all speaking of. I just purchased a cheapish aqua one betta conditioner. Is this a bad choice or will it be ok untill the bottle is finished. It is only a 50ml.
Here is the current setup. 
Going to get live plants and a structure mid week then check the ph again on saturday then get my fish.
Does this plan sound reasonable?


----------



## Tildy (Jul 3, 2011)

Your plan sounds completely reasonable.

I personally dont like undergravel filters because 1) they make having live plants extra difficult. 2) there isnt as much surface area for the bacteria to grow on so this in my mind makes them less efficient. I'm not sure how much you know about the nitrogen cycle but I'll give you a run down in case (if you already know I apologise). When fish produce waste it is pretty much straight ammonia. This can kill them easily. The first type of bacteria then starts to grow in the filter which eats the ammonia and excretes Nitrites which are also pretty toxic. Then the second type of bacteria starts to grow which eats the Nitrites and converts them to Nitrates which are much less toxic. When this cycle is starting up you will see the Ammonia grow till it spikes and starts to fall, when the Ammonia is almost at its peak you will see the Nitrites increase till they too spike and decrease. As the Nitrites are almost at thier peak you will see the Nitrates start to rise. When the cycle is complete you will have a reading of Ammonia: 0, Nitrites: 0 and Nitrates: anywhere from 20 ppm upwards I think. In a tank that runs well and is not overstocked you do the water changes to keep the Nitrates down. Filter media such as sponges or ceramic noodles have a much greater surface area on which the bacteria can grown meaning the filter will be able to cope with alot more waste. You can try getting ceramic substrate to put under your pebbles on top of the filter plate and that may give your bacteria more surface area to grow on. You will still have trouble with your live plants though.

As for the water conditioner, I wouldn't stress, everyone has thier favourite brands and some have things in them that will help fortify a stressed fish but so long as it takes out the chlorine and chloramines then its doing its job and it will be fine. I use the cheap stuff all the time (with 5 fish tanks in the house we use too much to get fancy). Just out of curiosity, what is the pH of your tap water?


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 3, 2011)

Hey there Tildy thanks again for the help. So basically the bigger the sponge the more "dirt" it can hold therefore longer nitrate cycles and water changes.
Not sure what the pH is yet but i have a drop kit and will aim at getting it to 7.0
I know leafy plants are great for the water so i will be stacking them in the tank.
Would 1 fighting fish really cause that much nitrate that a under tank filter can't handle? I just feel bad if i have to go and buy another filter when it was meant to come with a proper one suitable for the tank. I guess these kits aren't always the best for beginners.


----------



## euphorion (Jul 3, 2011)

cbf reading the whole thread. has fightingfish.com.au been mentioned along with ausaqua.net? they are great for basic information for everything from the hobby keeper to the crazy fish lady round the corner  have fun and good luck!

make sure you look for plants that are okay in low light and oxygen levels like screw val, bananna lillies, java moss and duck weed. they are all great for fight tanks. bananna lillies and java moss provide the best 'bed' for them to sleep in. i love watching my little ones curl up in the lily leaves when they're just unfurling. 

oh also, make sure you dont get a filter that is too powerful for your fish. with their big fins they can get blown around. remember they are designed to live in tiny stagnant ponds with little water circulation, we have just added masses of finnage and an attitude


----------



## Tildy (Jul 3, 2011)

Yeah, you dont really have to get a new filter. I just personally dont like them but others in the fishkeeping hobby do so each to thier own. It's not the dirt so much as space for the bacteria to grow. The cycle itself (the growing of the bacteria) takes on average one month and only happens once unless you put heaps more fish in all at once. After that you shouldn't have Ammonia or Nitrate readings in your tank at all. Having just one fish he wont generate so much waste that he will overload the filter. If you are worried, go the the pet shop and look for ceramic substrate which basically looks like little rough whitish rocks. Spread a layer between your pebbles and your filter plate and this will provide the bacteria with more than enough surface area. Change between 30% - 50% of the water weekly unless his fins start looking like they are getting raggy or shrinking in which case change that ammount more often. Never all the water or you will upset the cycle.

With the pH, try not to muck about with it too much. Fighter fish actually prefer a slightly alkaline (7.2 - 7.4) water and most tap water is fairly alkaline. If you test your tap water and it is alkaline you will find that just doing the water changes will balance your pH without mucking about with it. pH changes will kill your fish faster than an incorrect one. If you can, get Java fern and strap it to a bit of driftwood (if u find it you will need to boil it heaps to get salt and bugs out) or buy one strapped to wood. Its one of the hardiest plants I know hey and it wont get sucked into your filter if its strapped to wood. Plants will eat the nitrogen wastes in your water which is why they are good but if they start dying pull the dead bits out as you find them.


----------



## lazylizzy (Jul 3, 2011)

dont be sucked in to the con that fighter fish should be kept in tiny bowls, this is cruel, they are very active fish when kept in the propper tank (size,filter,heater)and VERY curiouse/inquisitive. out of all my fish in the tank my female fighter is the only fish that i can see a definite personality in. they are amazing fish! . you can keep them with other fish but the males long flowing fins seem to look delishous to some other fish lol, so be obsevent and prepared to seperate some fish. any number of females can be kept with males, but no more than one male per tank. they will fight to the death. good luck! hope this helps


----------



## euphorion (Jul 3, 2011)

has aquabid been mentioned? be warned, it is very addictive...


----------



## AUSGECKO (Jul 4, 2011)

lazylizzy said:


> dont be sucked in to the con that fighter fish should be kept in tiny bowls, this is cruel.


You can keep them in large tanks and you can also keep them in small bowls and it is not cruel, you obviously havnt seen how they live in the wild and how they are bred. If we all had that mentality then we should all throw our reptile rack systems in the bin and have all our animals free range.


----------



## Tildy (Jul 4, 2011)

When you see the difference in personality and vitality between a larger tank and a small bowl you see just how much it affects them. They don't do anything in a small bowl but sit on the bottom, In a larger space they play and search thier owner out and explore their environment. It makes a surprisingly big difference. In the wild thier ponds are often still and shallow but are also often quite wide covering quite a bit of ground space which makes them alot bigger than your average tiny bowl. I had mine in a tank that is pretty much the same as the tank Grogshla has bought for his and he loved it! He has made a good choice for his fish. In some cases bigger is better.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 4, 2011)

thanks Tildy. I personally wouldn't go any smaller than a 30L. I always like room for my animals.
The water was slightly alkaline about 7.6 so i put a few drops to bring it back down to 7.2 Im going to put the plants in on Thursday and then put the fish in on saturday if i find a nice one hehe.
Thanks to all of you for all the great information. 
I will update the thread with more pics on thursday. If any1 has any betta setups please feel free to share and post up a picture.


----------



## Tildy (Jul 4, 2011)

Yeah my tap water is around 7.6 and when i do a water change the dechlorinated tap water balances out the water in the tank that gets more acidic as it gets dirty and it saves me having to muck about with the chemicals.

Post pics of your setup when your done, its going to look awesome! I'll try and find some of mine that I have had over the years to show you. Anything else you need to know as you go, just ask but I reckon you will be fine.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 4, 2011)

thanks again 
I will put up more pics as soon as I take them!!! I am very excited.


----------



## Tildy (Jul 4, 2011)

So am I now darn you. Im thinking of a way I can fit a 6th fish tank into my house so I can get another betta. They are one of my all time favourite fish! I may just have to live vicariously through your pictures for now tho. Hehehe


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 4, 2011)

hahaha yes yes I know that story too well. 
I have my 2 reptile enclosures, my reptile rack and my fish tank all in my room and my computer down the end. I wish I could fit more in  Hope to get some more in the future though and put them in the living areas. 
They are all such amazing animals to watch!!


----------



## Tildy (Jul 4, 2011)

I have a spider a snake and two fish tanks in my room, a 2ft fish tank in the dining area and another small fish tank in the front sun room area. Thats just the things that live in tanks, that dont count mum's fish tank, the bird cages and the dog and cats. I can't help myself though, there is always room for one more enclosure. Specially if it's a Betta tank. They are super cool.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 7, 2011)

I just put a few live plants in there and an ornament. Hopefully the water will settle back down and I will be ready to put my fishy in on the weekend. The ph is currently 7.2 and the temp is on 26. Is there anything else I should be doing???


----------



## Smithers (Jul 7, 2011)

Lots for him to check out,...nice one Adam


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 7, 2011)

cheers mate

Does the water look a bit white and hazy to some?

Would any1 know of a shop or breeder that sells nice betta splendens? Most of the ones i see at pet shops are lifeless and all shrivelled and in tiny little displays. In my parents place we used to have a really beautiful one with healthy looking fins. Anywhere around the Wollongong Sydney region would be fine


----------



## Tildy (Jul 11, 2011)

Yay! Pictures! It looks fantastic dude! As for the white and hazy, that would be you cycle starting. Cloudy means ammonia in the tank. You will need to keep a close eye on him once you get him and do pretty regular water changes (maybe even 1/3 of the tank twice weekly) to ensure he doesnt get too hurt by the ammonia. You can back this off once the cycle has finished. As far as the pet shops, they all keep thier fish like that hey. Just get one that has nice fins that are intact and no visible odd spots on its body. You dont really have to worry bout quarantine cause he has the tank to himself but you will probably find that he will perk up alot once you put him in the tank. The lifeless and shrivelled has alot to do with the tiny space they have I think.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks a heap Tildy. I just did a 1/3 water change. Hope to get my fishy on the weekend sometime. I was wondering if it is ok to also purchase one of those little flathead looking algae eating fish for the bottom of the tank. I really love those little guys.


----------



## Tildy (Jul 14, 2011)

They are pretty cute but I would find out thier proper name (scientific and common) and google them to make sure that they dont get too big. I know alot of algae eaters do. Also, you will want to know thier water requirements and make sure they match up with your Betta. I dont have alot of experience with them so as with anything new, I recommend research. And don't believe people when they tell you that fish grow to the size of the tank. Some fish will have stunted growth in a smaller tank but it shortens thier lifespan as well.


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 17, 2011)

Would any1 know of a newly opened aquarium shop in Sydney? I was told one had opened and it was very very good!! I know it's a broad question but was very interested to see where it was!


----------



## Grogshla (Jul 31, 2011)

Just a quick update and a few iphone pics. Everything is going great with my siamese and 2 little catfish. I have been changing the water 2 times a week for the first 2 weeks and have had to modify my gravel cleaner so it can work properly. Will be taking some better photos soon. Hope you all like my fish.

some more pics


----------



## Tildy (Jul 31, 2011)

He is gorgeous. And he looks very happy too. Congrats!


----------

