# Emerald Tree Monitor (Varanus prasinus)



## zan777 (Oct 11, 2010)

Hey Guys,

was reading a monitor book in the library and came across a picture of an Emerald Tree Monitor. it says it was mainly distributed in PNG but could be found in islands within the Torres strait and cape York peninsular QLD. 

They look absoloutly amazing and I was wondering if they are available in Australia?

pics for reference:


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## ANT22 (Oct 11, 2010)

they look incredible, i hope they are


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## Mr.James (Oct 11, 2010)

They are amazing, but no unfortunately for some reason we don't have these in captivity here.


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## jimbomma (Oct 13, 2010)

Mr.Boyd said:


> They are amazing, but no unfortunately for some reason we don't have these in captivity here.


 
but yet they do internationally. :evil::evil::evil:
check them out on youtube.


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## r3ptilian (Oct 13, 2010)

They are also found in a couple of rainforests of Cape york peninsula. I dare say they would be very seldom seen considering they spend most of their time in the canopy tops. Very beautiful monitor indeed.


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## cris (Oct 13, 2010)

Do these lizards even do well in captivity? i would have thought they would be extremely shy and easily stressed or do they make good captives?

I think it would be easier just to spray a _V.gilleni _with green food dye :lol:


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## cactus2u (Oct 14, 2010)

Can't help in anyway to this thread But they are absolutely stunning!!!!!


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## GTsteve (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow!


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## tWiStEd (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeah you can't buy them because licensing laws kicked in before anyone realised they were an Australian native..


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## monitordude (Oct 14, 2010)

on youtube theres vids of them on a girls shoulder and shes feeding them, you can get them illegally in Aus, they look like they would be similar to tristis just with a rainforest enclosure with humidity.
ridgie


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## redbellybite (Oct 14, 2010)

ridgie1 said:


> on youtube theres vids of them on a girls shoulder and shes feeding them, you can get them illegally in Aus, they look like they would be similar to tristis just with a rainforest enclosure with humidity.
> ridgie


???????????????????????? since when do we promote illegal reptile activity on here ?


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

r3ptilian said:


> They are also found in a couple of rainforests of Cape york peninsula. I dare say they would be very seldom seen considering they spend most of their time in the canopy tops. Very beautiful monitor indeed.


 
r3 reptilian, I would like to believe that they are here but there is no hard evidence. One of the Rangers at Iron Range told me that they have deposited a green specimen to the museum but there doesn't seem to be any record of it. I also believe that one respectable herper have seen one at IR but it's a verbal anecdote again. You're saying they are in a couple of rainforests on CY - which is the other spot, apart from IR?
The Varanus keithhornei is also a canopy dweller, equally well camouflaged, yet there have been many sightings (I photographed this road kill just 2 weeks ago), so why is it that the green ones would be so hard to find?

cheers
M


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## redbellybite (Oct 14, 2010)

according to the book they have not yet been recorded on the mainland only found in the surrounding islands in our territory of Australia (and no that doent mean the NT before some go off half cocked)...beautiful monitors though ..


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## zan777 (Oct 14, 2010)

It seems there at lots that have been captured and shipped overseas to Europe and America. Just looking at one site 



> The monitor himself will tolerate handling and often comes to me when opening the glass for spraying/maintenance and will happily sit on my shoulder for long periods - never showed any signs of aggression



I think that captivity wise, if you can get there enclosure set up correctly they wouldn't be too much trouble. Especially if people overseas are managing.

Is it possible for someone to get a special license and obtain a few specimens from the Islands in North Queensland and then try and establish a breeding population in Australia?


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

I suspect it's the same case as with GTPs at Lockerbie Scrub. They are supposedly there, some people claim they have seen them but in reality they're not there.


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

zan777 said:


> Is it possible for someone to get a special license and obtain a few specimens from the Islands in North Queensland and then try and establish a breeding population in Australia?



It should possible but it's not because common sense does not prevail in bureaucracy.  The QPWS will only allow to "take from the wild" for scientific purposes and even that is bloody hard.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2010)

would be great to see these guys in captivity here... judging by all the photos and videos, they look very nice!


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## DanN (Oct 14, 2010)

We do have them in Australia.... Only thing is they are black. Not too far fetched to think that keithhornei is just a melanistic version of the green one. Makes sense given our cooler winters. In fact yesterday I saw a blue one, a green one and a gold/yellow one. Each from a small islands separated by a bit of sea.


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## DanN (Oct 14, 2010)

BTW Mike, did you see greens in IR recently?


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes, we found some but I just submitted an article to S&T about the trip, so I don't want to say much here. I email you later today.


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## -Peter (Oct 14, 2010)

zan777 said:


> Is it possible for someone to get a special license and obtain a few specimens from the Islands in North Queensland and then try and establish a breeding population in Australia?



Why on Earth would they consider introducing an exotic species onto the mainland? Just to satisfy a few herpers desire to own something they cant have?
Why stop at emerald tree monitors?
Anyway, another forum has a thread on this topic that Danny Brown and a few others have put forward some interesting info to. What ever you think its always an interesting topic.


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## zan777 (Oct 14, 2010)

-Peter said:


> Why on Earth would they consider introducing an exotic species onto the mainland? Just to satisfy a few herpers desire to own something they cant have?
> Why stop at emerald tree monitors?
> Anyway, another forum has a thread on this topic that Danny Brown and a few others have put forward some interesting info to. What ever you think its always an interesting topic.



I'm not sure if i made myself clear but when i say "establish a breeding population", I mean in captivity. And secondly if they are found in Australia they are obviously not an exotic species.


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## -Peter (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh, you made yourself clear. Obviously I didnt. No, I read it again. I think I was clear.


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## lizardman59 (Oct 14, 2010)

stunning


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## Waterrat (Oct 14, 2010)

lizardman59 said:


> stunning


 
who? Peter or zen777?


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## zan777 (Oct 15, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> who? Peter or zen777?



I think you mean Zan 



-Peter said:


> Oh, you made yourself clear. Obviously I didnt. No, I read it again. I think I was clear.



Just to clarify, are you saying these are an exotic non-native species that shouldn't be introduced to Australia? if so could you explain your reasoning?

thanks Zan


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## TWENTY B (Oct 15, 2010)

they do qiute well in captivity, unfortunatly, they are not available to the australian public. yet


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## bump73 (Oct 15, 2010)

zan777 said:


> Just to clarify, are you saying these are an exotic non-native species that shouldn't be introduced to Australia? if so could you explain your reasoning?
> 
> thanks Zan



hey mate as far as i'm aware, and i could be wrong, they aren't found on mainland Australia. I know they are on islands in the Torres strait that are considered Australian territory but they aren't "Australia" as such. Therefore they are exotic and non-native.

Ben


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## Waterrat (Oct 15, 2010)

bump73, if they inhabit an island that is classed as Australian Territory, then they are regarded as 'native'. Christmas Island is closer to Indonesia than it is to Australia but officially it's an Australian Territory. Some of the island species will probably never find their way into collections, like the _Cyrtodactylus sadleiri_ (gecko) of Christmas Island.


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## jinin (Oct 15, 2010)

I read up on these last year, sadly they aren't legally kept in NSW. They are soo nice though.


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## bump73 (Oct 15, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> bump73, if they inhabit an island that is classed as Australian Territory, then they are regarded as 'native'. Christmas Island is closer to Indonesia than it is to Australia but officially it's an Australian Territory. Some of the island species will probably never find their way into collections, like the _Cyrtodactylus sadleiri_ (gecko) of Christmas Island.


 
Exactly what i was getting at "legally" speaking they are native but from an ecological and common sense point of view they are not. It's like saying that animals that are found on Australian embassys around the world (i think they are considered Australian territory) are actually native to Australia, that examples possibly stretching it a bit though 

Ben


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## Waterrat (Oct 15, 2010)

Ben, it may seem that way but for instance, the wildlife department (federal) has the authority to issue permits to collect on those islands and they often do (for scientific purposes). So, although those places are not mainland Australia, they are still Australia, where the Australian Fauna Act applies.
I know for a fact that White-lipped pythons were collected on permit and subsequently kept in Australia.


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## bump73 (Oct 15, 2010)

This is begining to sound like another thread about allowing the import of exotics ( ie. animals that don't naturally occur on mainland australia) :lol::lol: Shouldn't be allowed in my opinion and let's face it chances are it won't be.


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## Waterrat (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't understand why you're insisting on calling them exotics. The are not. Would you say Tasmanian copperheads and tigers are exotic? Magnetic island has got myriad of reptile species, are they also exotics?


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## bump73 (Oct 15, 2010)

I believe the line has to be drawn somewhere and it shouldn't come down to wether the animals are from Australian territories it should be based more on an animals native range, perhaps i should retract the exotic comment and say "they are non-native to Australia as in Australia the continent not including all the islands that fall under the Australian flag but may be up to 2000km away". 
Let's face it New Zealand is geographically closer than say Christmas island but an animal from new zealand would be called exotic where as a animal from Christmas Island is called native, as far as i'm concerned they are both exotic to mainland Australia even if that doesn't fit in with the dictionary definition of the word.


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 15, 2010)

Just a bit of info for the pros & cons... they were in fact on the NSW list of permitted species until quite recently, but eventually no one had them, so they've been deleted. I haven't looked at the most recent NSW list, but White-lipped Pythons WERE ON the list when I last looked.

Clearly, for the purposes of bureaucracy, V.prasinus was regarded as an Australian native when they were in the system. Some very reputable people suggest they've seen them on Cape York.

Jamie.


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## bogdan (Oct 15, 2010)

Some were confiscated recently and taken for DNA testing.
If they ever get on license it will just be the green version of wheeleri or was that depressa???


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## Waterrat (Oct 15, 2010)

bump73 said:


> I believe the line has to be drawn somewhere and it shouldn't come down to wether the animals are from Australian territories it should be based more on an animals native range, perhaps i should retract the exotic comment and say "they are non-native to Australia as in Australia the continent not including all the islands that fall under the Australian flag but may be up to 2000km away".
> Let's face it New Zealand is geographically closer than say Christmas island but an animal from new zealand would be called exotic where as a animal from Christmas Island is called native, as far as i'm concerned they are both exotic to mainland Australia even if that doesn't fit in with the dictionary definition of the word.



I am giving up. What has NZ to do with Australia? I thought NZ is a different country whichever way you look at it. 
So would you exclude Hinchinbrook Is., Withsunday islands, all the Bass Straight islands, etc., etc.? They all contain exotic fauna? Why 2000km away, why not 2km away?


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## bogdan (Oct 15, 2010)

some were taken recently to Taronga for DNA testing
if they ever get on license it will just be the green version of wheeleri all over again


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## kupper (Oct 15, 2010)

It would be pretty sweet either way to have some new additions to the overall species count within Australia ....now we just need to get oenpelli


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## -Peter (Oct 15, 2010)

V. prasinus were placed on the NSW then NPWS reptile list as a result of animals claimed to be kept at the time of the initial amnesty in the 1990s. As this was not checked up many things were claimed to be held. There were also a large number of exotics also. None of the animals on the lists were ever gazzetted by the Federal Government and therefore remained illegal exotics under Federal law. In deal brokered by the then head of licensing animals held at the time of the amnesty were allowed to be kept until they died but were not to be traded, bred or given away.
Prasinus may be accepted in NSW on paper but that does not mean that the Federal government do or that any other state does. In QLD GTPs and eclectus parrots are classed as pandemic species, not native. V. prasinus if it were proven to be found naturally in Qld would need to join those two species. I do not believe that they currently do. I would suggest that the EPA in Qld and Primary Industries in Canberra would not look upon the species as native.


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## eipper (Oct 16, 2010)

Besides Ecies and greens there are quite a number of species that are found both in and out of Australia, the fact that these species live elsewhere other than Australia does not make them any less native.

Our lives are more or less driven by both geographical and political influences, at least in part...so why should this not be different in this case.

The reality is that animals found in Australian Political territories are native by definition to Australia, regardless of their proximity to other nations. Lord Howe Island, Christmas, the Cocos /Keeling group Boigu/Saibai, Norfolk etc all have species that if they were not Australian territories would not regarded as Australian.

As for V prasinus on Mainland Australia....I am yet to know of a specimen deposited into a Museum, however they are certainly present on Moa Island in the Torres Strait.

Depending on which reference you look at depends on whether an number species of varanid are present of Cape York including V doreanus, V Prasinus and V finischi....it is a notoriously hard place to access and survey as a whole, I would not be surprized if a number of other Southern PNG/Irian Jayan endemics turn up.

Cheers,
Scott


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## -Peter (Oct 16, 2010)

So your saying that if anyone legally keeping has any reptiles endemic to these locals in these territories we, as Australians, can purchase them and have AAE fly them to us? 




eipper said:


> The reality is that animals found in Australian Political territories are native by definition to Australia, regardless of their proximity to other nations. Lord Howe Island, Christmas, the Cocos /Keeling group Boigu/Saibai, Norfolk etc all have species that if they were not Australian territories would not regarded as Australian.
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott


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## eipper (Oct 17, 2010)

Yes peter....as they are in Australia, you should be able to trade freely, it is a constitutional right to be able to freely trade between states and territories.....this law also makes it illegal to charge to send a product/livestock across a state border, which for herpos means that the charge to send reptiles out of NSW or WA is therefore unconstiutional and should be abolished......however I don't see it changing any time soon.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Pythoninfinite (Oct 17, 2010)

In theory, if you can legally obtain a reptile in Australia (except for those specifically prohibited - crocs, sea turtles and sea snakes), you can import it into NSW. DECCW may try to stop you if it's not on the list, but in law they can't. Few people are game to give it a go.

Jamie.


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## souldoubt (Nov 24, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> I am giving up. What has NZ to do with Australia? I thought NZ is a different country whichever way you look at it.
> So would you exclude Hinchinbrook Is., Withsunday islands, all the Bass Straight islands, etc., etc.? They all contain exotic fauna? Why 2000km away, why not 2km away?


 
I think what he means to say is that the emerald tree monitor, at the present moment, is not confirmed to occur on the mainland. So they still pose a threats such as carrying new diseases on to the mainland or escaping from captivity (or some idiot deciding to let there animals go). Quarantining *should* overcome the disease issue and if they do happen to establish a population in the wild on the mainland we have to assume that they will cause problems for frogs (which are already declining at an extremely fast rate) and smaller lizards, it could even potentially cause problems for some plant species as it is omnivorous. Until it is confirmed to be living on the mainland, we have to say that it isn't a component of any mainland australia states ecosystem because it's not. However it isn't an overly large monitor so theoretically it will be somewhat susceptible to similar predators as our medium sized monitors.

If we're getting technical an animal found on tasmania but not on the mainland is not part of any mainland australian ecosystem, just like no mainland australian animal that doesn't reside in tasmania is part of the tasmanian ecosystem. Of course that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to keep them on the mainland - but whether or not we should be able to is debatable

This monitor is such a beautiful lizard though!


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## -Peter (Nov 24, 2010)

There are numerous mainland reptiles not allowed to be imported into Tasmania and even Western Australia.


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## Sofoula88 (Nov 24, 2010)

I am like totally in love with this creature..I think there
stunning and suprisingly seem fairly docile and well natured with humans from the vids I've seen..it's such a shame we can't get them here in aus..guess I'll have to move to America and get one,one day


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## Jonno from ERD (Nov 24, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> Ben, it may seem that way but for instance, the wildlife department (federal) has the authority to issue permits to collect on those islands and they often do (for scientific purposes). So, although those places are not mainland Australia, they are still Australia, where the Australian Fauna Act applies.
> I know for a fact that White-lipped pythons were collected on permit and subsequently kept in Australia.


 
G'day Michael,

I realise it is a bit late, but Queensland EPA have issued permits to collect species from the islands between PNG and Australia.


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## souldoubt (Nov 25, 2010)

-Peter said:


> There are numerous mainland reptiles not allowed to be imported into Tasmania and even Western Australia.


 
I would say that's probably because they are seen as a threat to that particular ecosystem. mainland australia is not made up of one ecosystem, thats why some species are only found in some states. The government doesn't always get these things right in my opinion, but sometimes they're spot on - some people are too irresponsible to take the chance in allowing them into the state legally. The red eared slider is a perfect example of irresponsible pet ownership


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## mannsy18 (Nov 30, 2010)

oh my godd, this moniter is awesome where can i get one and how much? i live in W.A


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## pythons73 (Nov 30, 2010)

They are a amazing Monitor,ive seen these in the flesh,and they truely are mind blowing,the bright vivid colours are stunning...


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## TWENTY B (Nov 30, 2010)

pythons73 said:


> They are a amazing Monitor,ive seen these in the flesh,and they truely are mind blowing,the bright vivid colours are stunning...



simple answer... you can't.


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## ezekiel86 (Nov 30, 2010)

very cool...amazing looking


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## Dannyboi (Nov 30, 2010)

Shame its not the same laws as SA you can apply to collect protected species from the wild to create a captive bred colony Department of Environment and Natural Resources - Fauna Permits


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## pythons73 (Nov 30, 2010)

TWENTY B said:


> simple answer... you can't.



You cant WHAT...I said that ive seen these monitors before and they are a amazing monitor...So whats the simple answer....


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