# Caramel carpet python



## Sami-Lochy (Jun 17, 2013)

Hey guys thinking about buying a caramel carpet python, does caramel mean it may contain the hypo gene? Here is a picture.


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## Tsubakai (Jun 17, 2013)

Usually not. Its generally used to describe a colour phase. Have you seen what the parents look like? That will give you some idea of what the offspring will turn out like. That picture you put up looks just like my carpets did as hatchies - they are standard coastals - but that's not to say it won't turn out 'caramel'.


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## brown.snake (Jun 17, 2013)

A caramel coastal carpet python


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## thomasssss (Jun 17, 2013)

this is my caramel , cant wait to watch him grow and see what he turns into he is a pretty vibrant orangey/caramel colour in person


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## saximus (Jun 17, 2013)

Tsubakai said:


> Usually not. Its generally used to describe a colour phase.



Are you sure? I thought Caramel in Coastals was the name for the co-dom hypo trait?


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 17, 2013)

Hey guys, thanks for the help. She calls them semi hypo, I have yet to recieve an answer of what the parents are, my guess is one is caramel and one is normal. Or maybe they are both normal and one is carrying the hypo gene with no visible signs? I'm new to this snakes thing so just wanted to know can normal parents with no hypo gene produce caramel, cause I think this might be the case, if she is avoiding my questions on the parents lines.


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## thomasssss (Jun 17, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the help. She calls them semi hypo, I have yet to recieve an answer of what the parents are, my guess is one is caramel and one is normal. Or maybe they are both normal and one is carrying the hypo gene with no visible signs? I'm new to this snakes thing so just wanted to know can normal parents with no hypo gene produce caramel, cause I think this might be the case, if she is avoiding my questions on the parents lines.


either hypo or not imo , hypo in coastals seems to be thrown around alot from what ive seen , no offence intended but i wouldn't be jumping to say that the animal you've pictured is a hypo or even semi hypo as he does have a fair amount of black on him 

also i vaguely remember seeing someone on here say that they dont sell off or call any of their hypo coastals a "hypo" until they have passed the yearling mark and still have very little black , this was because they develop alot of black in that first year and instead they just call them caramels to avoid later complaints that the "hypo" wasnt a hypo at all 

this is why im not calling the guy i pictured above a hypo , because he still has a few black scales on him (although very minor compared to some of the other animals ive seen labelled hypo ) i also got another caramel coastal a little while before him , he looked a bit like your guy does when purchased but now has a heap of black and would ( hopefully) never be considered a hypo just a caramel in colour 

their needs to be some standard of what is labelled a hypo imo , that way the breeders who are putting in the effort to breed them can get the acknowledgement they deserve


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Hey Thomas, I am very jealous of your coastal, wow, very nice. Thanks for your comment, i always enjoy reading what you have to say. I couldn't agree more about that standard needs to be set for hypo animals so we don't get people out there trying to make a quick buck by selling there animal off as a hypo. 
I guess I don't really mind, Hypo or no hypo, it will always have the caramel which is why I've decided to buy 2, hopefully one male and one female. I've posted another picture of the 2 I'm getting, the lighter ones in the click clack. 
And I've also posted a picture of the cabinet I'm going to use to build there enclosure, haven't really done much yet. Ordering all the stuff still but should be done by the time I get these little guys in a few weeks. 
What light setup do you have for your little one thomasssss? I'm thinking about just using a heat cord and a basking light, will this keep the snakes comfortable?


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## thomasssss (Jun 17, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies.
> Hey Thomas, I am very jealous of your coastal, wow, very nice. Thanks for your comment, i always enjoy reading what you have to say. I couldn't agree more about that standard needs to be set for hypo animals so we don't get people out there trying to make a quick buck by selling there animal off as a hypo.
> I guess I don't really mind, Hypo or no hypo, it will always have the caramel which is why I've decided to buy 2, hopefully one male and one female. I've posted another picture of the 2 I'm getting, the lighter ones in the click clack.
> And I've also posted a picture of the cabinet I'm going to use to build there enclosure, haven't really done much yet. Ordering all the stuff still but should be done by the time I get these little guys in a few weeks.
> What light setup do you have for your little one thomasssss? I'm thinking about just using a heat cord and a basking light, will this keep the snakes comfortable?


no worries , its not really the quick buck thing ( as their not incredibly expensive) its more to give credit where credit is due , i cant remember who it is (sorry) but someone on here breeds stunning hypos they look almost like an olive, virtually patternless 

as for what saximus bought up is another question , i dont know enough about genetics to comment on that side of it , what im more commenting on is standards of hypos and when it becomes a caramel 

as for keeping i use heat matts for my hatchys until they are big enough to move into enclosures , then i use ceramic heat emitters , i personally dont really see the need for 2 heat sources unless you live down south 
and cheers he is a nice looker in person , heres some old photo of my other one , ive really got to get some new pics of these guys


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 18, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> no worries , its not really the quick buck thing ( as their not incredibly expensive) its more to give credit where credit is due , i cant remember who it is (sorry) but someone on here breeds stunning hypos they look almost like an olive, virtually patternless
> 
> as for what saximus bought up is another question , i dont know enough about genetics to comment on that side of it , what im more commenting on is standards of hypos and when it becomes a caramel
> 
> ...


Ok cheers for the info. Loving the pics, very nice patterns on both.


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## saximus (Jun 18, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> as for what saximus bought up is another question , i dont know enough about genetics to comment on that side of it , what im more commenting on is standards of hypos and when it becomes a caramel



I did some more research and I was right. Caramel is a monogenetic, co-dominant trait in Coastals so it's either there or it isn't. There is also a Super form which is just even more reduced. So, while I'd agree there are varying degrees of "hyponess" in something like Bredli, this shouldn't be the case here and if the sellers were so cagey about giving details about the parents, I'd be concerned. As for making up a standard, this is a fairly difficult problem because remember "hypo" just means reduced so technically even a slight tinge less than normal is still reduced, even if the majority of the populace would disagree with the title in such a case.


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## becwatson14 (Jun 18, 2013)

This is the one I was considering getting

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


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## stimigex (Jun 18, 2013)

Try and look up TrueBlue on here if you want to see quality Hypo's! There are a few pics floating about on this site,Rob breeds some of the best in Australia.


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## Vixen (Jun 18, 2013)

Honestly, all the animals in the first post just look like like stock standard coastals. I'd wager my whole collection that even the lighter animals will turn out to look like completely normal adults in about 12+ months time. Not trying to be rude, but I really dislike breeders that try and hock off young coastals as 'hypo' when clearly they are not - it's obvious.


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## Serpent_Gazeux (Jun 18, 2013)

My True Blue hypo coastal.

The photo is a couple of weeks old now, I cannot wait to see wait she looks like after her next shed.


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## Serpent_Gazeux (Jun 18, 2013)

Back to the OP, I think you should buy it if you like it.

Personally I think it's a beautiful animal.


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## thomasssss (Jun 18, 2013)

saximus said:


> I did some more research and I was right. Caramel is a monogenetic, co-dominant trait in Coastals so it's either there or it isn't. There is also a Super form which is just even more reduced. So, while I'd agree there are varying degrees of "hyponess" in something like Bredli, this shouldn't be the case here and if the sellers were so cagey about giving details about the parents, I'd be concerned. As for making up a standard, this is a fairly difficult problem because remember "hypo" just means reduced so technically even a slight tinge less than normal is still reduced, even if the majority of the populace would disagree with the title in such a case.


cheers for the info  , and good point about the whole standard thing , i know it is hard as the definition of the word isnt very precise but , that doesnt mean that people cant have a standard it doesnt have to be a straight up " once its passed ...% of black it is no longer a hypo" sort of standard but just some sort of standard /mindset of what makes the cut as a hypo 

the first one i pictured was sold to me as a caramel , yet it has bugger all black as the pictures show so would people consider him a hypo ? i wont be making my mind up until he is atleast a year or so old , its hard to tell but i think he got a slight bit more black from his last shed if this is the case he could grow up to have heaps of black pigment who knows then he wouldnt be as much of a hypo 
hope this all makes sense just got left at the pub waiting for a lift since 3pm


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## Shotta (Jun 18, 2013)

heres some info....
The Caramel Coastal carpet pythons are a form of Hypomelanistic snake.
These pythons follow a co – dominant mode of inheritance.

This mutation was called ‘Caramel’ because many offspring develop a Caramel hue to their background colouration.
When paired together this mutation will produce on average: ¼ normal, ½ Caramel (Hets) and ¼ Super Caramel.

The super form cannot be guaranteed until it is bred to a ‘wild type’ animal and all the resultant offspring being deemed caramels. Super Caramel’s are generally more greatly reduced in pigmentation and pattern with vibrant colouration than your standard caramels.


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## Shotta (Jun 18, 2013)

Hypomelanism is a partial lack of melanin. A complete lack of pigmentation would be Amelanistic (Albino). Hypomelanism in Coastal Carpet Pythons appears to be an extremely variable trait and can follow quite a few modes of inheritance thus far.
Hypo Mcdowelli hatch a bright orange or red with very little visible pattern. Standard ‘wild type’ Coastal Carpet Pythons can and do also hatch this way but develop dark pigment and increased contrasting pattern with each subsequent shed, usually coming into their adult colouration at around 12 – 18 months of age, though some sooner.
Hypomelanistic animals differ in that on hatching they seem to have very little discernable pattern and obviously little to no dark pigment.
They will still develop more pigmentation after each shed but it will be minimal and the animals will retain their spectacular colouration, resulting in either lemon or orange adults with green undertones.
The “Super Hypos” are truly spectacular looking animals with a minute amount of dark pigmentation present anywhere on the body.
The hets or “B” grade hypos as some like to call them, go on to develop single scale solid black edging around their patterns with a less extreme lemon hughes < is that how you spell hugh? hue?? both pieces taken from deisgner serpents


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 19, 2013)

Hey guys cheers so much for the info, I got some more photos in the sun and they are looking nice, I'm picking them both up tomorrow night, I was meant to wait a few weeks until the reptile expo at the gold coast mext month, because it is a 4.5 hr drive there and back to pick these guys up. But I thought stuff it, haha, I can't wait any longer, made the decision to buy these guys at least a week ago and luckily she is getting them sexed tomorrow afternoon  
Ill see if I can remember to update this thread in a year or so, if I can and see if they turn out normal or hypo. I think you guys are probably right though, they will most likely be normal.
it won't make much difference either way just wish sellers would be a bit clearer and do there research before branding something as a caramel when it probably will lose its colour in a few sheds.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 19, 2013)

A few hypo carpet pics.


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## jahan (Jun 19, 2013)

They are the benchmark for hypo`s.
Looking good TB.


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

Hey guys picked up my 2 caramels today,one male and one female. The keeper who I bought them off was exceptional. And the snakes are beautiful, very once natured. I got to met the parents and they are both from very reputable breeders, so I am very happy! I also got to hold and see many other beautiful reptiles. Including a Spencer's monitor which was very lovely, I love monitors! Although I only have ridged tails, a spencer or Kimberly rock monitor would be my next purchase. 
Also got to see albino olives, bhps, Lace monitors, albino Darwinism and other outstanding specimens. I can highly recommend this breeder. They obviously are very selective of which animals they breed which is great to see.
They also reckon the caramels will lose some black pigmentation and not gain black pigmentation. 
I added some more photos of the pair I got, and the albino olive and Spencer's monitor. The photos are in the original post as I am on an ipad I can't add pictures to repliesreplies


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

I've figured out how to add pics to thread replies.


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

As you can see the Spencer's or the Lacey must have scratched my arm, I had quite a few marks, definately worth the hold but!


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

The carpet python in the third photo is the aunt of my little ones, I.e the mums sister and apparently has a very rare trait in her, azcarthic or something? Could any one clarify, I've forgotten the word is it acarthic? Any way she was telling me about how it was one of the first acarthics in qld or something similiar, not too sure what the word means though. Excuse me if I sound like an idiot haha


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

Here's the pics


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## Serpent_Gazeux (Jun 21, 2013)

.


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

Axanthic girl, this year she is being bred to an albino Darwin.

Thanks for the kind words Sam, it was lovely meeting you!


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> Here's the pics



There seems to be a lot of people claiming Axanthic carpets now, however the only proven line is that which was originally bred by Steve Brooks. Both Coastals above just look like average coloured animals to me? There is a huge diversity in the colour and pattern of this species, just because one displays a slightly lighter colouration certainly doesn't mean it's Axanthic.


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

She is the original Steve Brooks. This is Angel.


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## Shotta (Jun 21, 2013)

my bad didnt see above post lol


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

The last photo is an olive.


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2013)

Nezikah said:


> She is the original Steve Brooks. This is Angel.



Huh?


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

I purchased her from Stephen Brooks. Her babies are the ones sold to Wayne Larks.


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2013)

~~~~~


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

We did.


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## RedFox (Jun 21, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> I added some more photos of the pair I got, and the albino olive and Spencer's monitor.





Vixen said:


> That last photo looks like an Albino Olive, not a carpet python?



There you go Vixen. That might make things a bit easier. 

TrueBlue wow they are some nice hypos.


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

Yes photos came up in the wrong order sorry, the first is the axanthic and the last is the albino olive, as you guys can most likely tell


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## thomasssss (Jun 21, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> I've figured out how to add pics to thread replies.


are these the same animals you where looking at buying at the beginning of the thread


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2013)

Nezikah said:


> I purchased her from Stephen Brooks. Her babies are the ones sold to Wayne Larks.




So wait, your Angel was part of the clutches produced by Steve, or are you claiming she was the Mother of the clutches?

Just trying to understand what you mean by her babies were the ones sold to Larks - as the mother that produced the Axanthics looked nothing like her and as far as I understand has since passed away? She only ever had two clutches - her name was Ivory if I remember right.


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## Nezikah (Jun 21, 2013)

He told us she was mum, mind you we were told a few other things that were not quiet correct.


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## Vixen (Jun 21, 2013)

This is the Dam here, she was the only one that produced any Axanthics (neither parents are Axanthic themselves, simply held the gene the produce them)

I hope Steve doesn't mind me posting the photo.


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## larks (Jun 21, 2013)

Vixen said:


> So wait, your Angel was part of the clutches produced by Steve - was she an actual grey/Axanthic or only a sibling?
> 
> Just trying to understand what you mean by her babies were the ones sold to Larks - as the mother that produced the Axanthics looked nothing like her and as far as I understand has since passed away? She only ever had two clutches - her name was Ivory if I remember right.



You are 100% correct Vixen, Angle was not the mother of my axanthics that Steve produced. Ivory was the mother and she wasn't axanthic either.


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

thomasssss said:


> are these the same animals you where looking at buying at the beginning of the thread



The two I originally chose were both female so I just chose the lighter female and the lighter of the 2 males as well. I haven't really handled snakes before, I think they are awesome to hold, relaxing almost to have them gliding around.


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## thomasssss (Jun 21, 2013)

Se2741 said:


> The two I originally chose were both female so I just chose the lighter female and the lighter of the 2 males as well. I haven't really handled snakes before, I think they are awesome to hold, relaxing almost to have them gliding around.


ohk makes sense now , i was a little throw because they a alot lighter than the one you initially pictured , nice little coastals


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## Sami-Lochy (Jun 21, 2013)

They are very light, the photos don't do the, justice. 
Here is one outside.


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## congo_python (Jun 21, 2013)

After reading the first page... I'd like to state that word of mouth is the best advertising you can get,so if you do the wrong thing by someone whether it be badly sexing multiple hatchy's or miss information on the genetics of a hatchy it will come back to bite you in the future. In the good old days this was the only way to sell hatchy's.
JMO


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