# New member nth nsw ID



## Goony (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi guys,

Firstly I hope new members like myself aren't too annoying coming on here mainly to Id. Ive always had an appreciation of and interest in reptiles but can sometimes find it hard to Id so I thought I'd come here and get advice from the people who know them well! 

Currently living in the rainforest of far northern nsw near mullumbimby so we have many scaly friends around. 

Im away at work ATM and my partner doing some clearing of an overgrown garden bed (grasses, shrubs, rocks,) overturned a rock to find this snake! She didn't want to get any closer than this so these pics are all I have  ! It didn't move for a couple of hours and was chilled out she said. Apparently it didn't have a red belly..... Head wasn't large either.

I know these pics aren't much at all but if anybody may be able to work it out from this that would be great...love to know exactly what I see in the environment around us but find snakes the hardest to identify in all their variations......

ThAnks in advance

Ben














https://www.dropbox.com/s/k37vkw4l2n8j40v/2013-02-10 09.10.26.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8h2rq7pvc87jrq/2013-02-10 09.10.08.jpg


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## Asharee133 (Feb 11, 2013)

can't really ID it without a decent pic sorry hun.


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## Marzzy (Feb 11, 2013)

Can't see the pics


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## Goony (Feb 11, 2013)

Yeah thought so....not much to see there. If you click on the links you should see the pics.......thanks


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## bigguy (Feb 11, 2013)

It can only be 1 of 2 snakes. Red Belly Black which are now quite rare in your area due to toads, or an extremely large Small Eyed Snake which grow huge in your area. I found one on the road at Mount Warning over 1 metre long and have heard of them reaching 1.4 metres in the area.


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## Reptiles101 (Feb 11, 2013)

Be the looks of the photos, it looks like a red bellied black snake. It's very hard to ID it.


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## Chanzey (Feb 11, 2013)

Goony said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Firstly I hope new members like myself aren't too annoying coming on here mainly to Id. Ive always had an appreciation of and interest in reptiles but can sometimes find it hard to Id so I thought I'd come here and get advice from the people who know them well!



Sorry this isn't an answer to your ID but, I believe most members on here appreciate ID threads being posted as it gives us a good opportunity to learn, as well as yourself. I tend to refrain from posting on these threads, especially if I'm not 100%. There is some great members on here with a wealth of ID skills and knowledge. 

Goodluck


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## Goony (Feb 11, 2013)

thanks for the replies....it didn't have a red belly so Sounds like it was a small eyed snake....thanks again

Ben


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## jordo (Feb 12, 2013)

The red belly isn't always obvious, sometimes it isn't even red.


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## Bushman (Feb 12, 2013)

Ben, we can't give you a confident ID from those photos, and although it's _probably_ a Red-bellied Black Snake or a Small-eyed Snake based on colouration and location, it's unwise to say it can only be one of these two species.
Edit: I stand corrected when I suggested that it was slightly more likely to be a RbB.


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## bigguy (Feb 12, 2013)

Bushman It was under an overturned rock so your theory is mute. Still could be either


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## Bluetongue1 (Feb 12, 2013)

This was mostly written last night, before I fell asleep at the computer. Thanks for that input in the meantime *Jordo*…

My initial reaction was definitely RBB. It has the characteristic of jet black colour, high gloss scales and robust body. Lacking a red a belly does not exclude the ossibility of a RBB, as the red colouration varies in both intensity and redness to where some individuals are a yellowish cream. The colour is most intense along the lowest lateral and the very ends of the ventral. Most of the belly is cream with or without a reddish flush to it.



Small-eyeds generally vary from a dark grey through to what I would describe as steel black. While the scales are shiny they lack the intense gloss of the red-bellied. The belly varies from pink to cream in colour but does not show on the lower laterals at all. 

On the above basis I would have said RBB. However, I decided to Google some relevant images and there are photos of small-eyeds that I would have picked as red-bellies due to the depth of black and the gloss. I have seen and know of small-eyed approaching 1m in length but any bigger I would question. I note Wilson & Swan make the comment that there are signs that RBB populations in SE Qld (not so far from you) are now increasing. No doubt that comes from Steve through his work at the Qld Museum.

So all up, if you could see cream colouring along the lowest lateral body scales of the snake (should be visible when on flat ground, it’s a RBB. If the belly was blotched with irregularly spaced darker markings along its length it is Small-eyed Snake. Sorry, but that is the best I can offer. 


OK. I just took a closer look at the first photo and you can see a series of pale scales in the mid-body ventro-lateral area. These appear to have the shape of body scales rather than the arrow head end and parallel sides of ends of ventral scales. A diagnstic feature. To me, even the appearance of the scles says RBB - but I cannot justify why so that cannot be included.

Conclusion: Within the limitations of the what can be seen and the clarity of the image in the photo, I personally would say 90% + chance it is a RBB.

Blue


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## Goony (Feb 12, 2013)

thanks again for the responses .... We have seen a couple of red bellied blacks not far up the road and I have seen plenty in the past around the Byron shire region....could be either I guess.....we are right in the thick of it, the girl and dog had a close encounter with what sounded like a brown snake under the house today!


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## Bushman (Feb 14, 2013)

You're welcome mate, anytime.


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## nathancl (Feb 16, 2013)

Red bellies are very common around mullumbimby and there isn't any reason it could be a hemiaspis either which are just as common as red bellies and small eyeds in that area.


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