# mice eating baby mice



## Trench (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi,
I have been given a breeding colony of mice all the females looked like they had swollowed a golf ball (14female and 1 male) I have had great results from biomare, laying mash, and different types of veg with rats, so I have been feeding that to the mice.
the day I got them just befor I went home one of them had 13 babys, now 2 and a half weeks later there are non, they have all been killed.
they were slowly killed off by the others, should I seperate them? the male did not eat any just some of the other females which I thought would have helped care for them, not kill them?
did I disturb them too much with moving them and handling the babys? the last baby to die from the litter had opened it's eyes 2 days befor
Have I missed something in their diet or are they just eating them to be mean?
also they were all gravid when I got them 2 and a half weeks ago and looked like they had just swollowed a golf ball, can they hold their babys in if they don't feel safe? 
would the smell of rats near by cause this?
do super mice have longer preg than normal mice?
or are they just not ready to give birth?
I have the 1 male and 14 females in one tub, Is this too crowded? will they kill the babys to make more room if this is the case

Cheers


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## grannieannie (Sep 30, 2011)

I can't give you any answers, and it sounds really gross to me, but I've heard of adult animals eating babies before. I'm sure someone will give you some answers.


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## FAY (Sep 30, 2011)

Mice are NOT vegetarians. You have to make sure that they have a decent amount of protein in their diet, otherwise they eat their babies.
Buy the proper rat/mouse pellets. You can also add more protein by giving them dog kibble as well.
We give ours Vella rat/mouse cubes and we also make up a mix. Dog kibble, parrot mix, chook pellets etc.


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## Bel03 (Sep 30, 2011)

I also heard that if you handle the young the mother or other females will eat them......not sure if there is any truth to it though, just a suggestion.


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## FAY (Sep 30, 2011)

Bel711 said:


> I also heard that if you handle the young the mother or other females will eat them......not sure if there is any truth to it though, just a suggestion.



No, that is not true. We clean ours out constantly, all babies have to be picked up and moved and we have never had a problem.


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## Firedrake (Sep 30, 2011)

How big is the tub? I don't know much about breeding mice but 15 to a tub sounds like a alot.


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## FAY (Sep 30, 2011)

We have a huge breeding tub, 40 females and 10 males. When the girls are pregnant we move them to a tub of their own till their are 20 in females in the tub. We have noticed they do much better with the babies without the males annoying them. Sounds like humans eh??


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## euphorion (Sep 30, 2011)

sounds like not enough protein, i feed biomare plus dog kibble (puppy variety) and mixed seeds. some feed biomare on its own with no problems but i have better results when i add the dog food.


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## Boidae (Sep 30, 2011)

Mice have a tendency to do that. 
I bred them once a while back, they smell, bite a lot and like to eat their babies. 
Breed rats, they are MUCH cleaner, are much better breeders and dont eat their babies (not in my experience anyway)
But keep them in outside enclosures as they are prone to catchng pneumonia if you have them inside.
If you must feed mice, I would definately be buying them from a store, too much of a hassle in my opinion.


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## JAS101 (Sep 30, 2011)

Trench said:


> Hi,
> I have been given a breeding colony of mice all the females looked like they had swollowed a golf ball (14female and 1 male) I have had great results from biomare, laying mash, and different types of veg with rats, so I have been feeding that to the mice.
> the day I got them just befor I went home one of them had 13 babys, now 2 and a half weeks later there are non, they have all been killed.
> they were slowly killed off by the others, should I seperate them? the male did not eat any just some of the other females which I thought would have helped care for them, not kill them?
> ...


how big is the tub ? i go the 3 :1 ratio [ 3 females and 1 male per 50 lt tub]
i dont think they would hold the babys in due to smelling the rats , i have my rats and mice in the same shed [ one side rats/ other side mice]
as others have said , the lack of protein would be the reason why the babys are geting eaten.


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## Bel03 (Sep 30, 2011)

FAY said:


> No, that is not true. We clean ours out constantly, all babies have to be picked up and moved and we have never had a problem.



Ok, cool. I have never had mice or rats or anything, but it was something that was told to my little sister when she recently purchased some mice, as she wants to breed, but yeah with her set up she 2 would have to move them for cleaning. I will let her know it isnt true!


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## leamos (Sep 30, 2011)

Agreed lack of protein sets them off on their cannibalistic madness, unfortunately I've found once they start eating their young they will continue to eat a number of their following litters no matter how much protein is in their diet. Also very important they never run out of food even just a few hours without food can set them off, they go into survival mode, not enough food to feed all the bubs so they "recycle" the nuterients/energy for the next litter when food returns

I agree with what Fay suggested spliting your colony so the preggers females can nest away from the male who sometimes is the culprit and give them some more space this will hopefully reduce stress and minimise the risk of lossing more litters.


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## Jen (Sep 30, 2011)

Not only does lack of food set them off, make sure they have plenty of clean water to produce milk otherwise they will cannibalise. Mice have what is called postpartum estrus - basically the females are receptive immediately after littering, so having a male in there is good for that, but having the male separate in such a large colony could also be good. Try a 1:3 ratio or even try what we used to do at the vivarium, put 1 (or more) male aside as a 'stud' and introduce a female overnight, removing her in the morning. You can check for a sperm plug that indicated mating has taken place, but this is not always present. Give the boy a night between ladies for optimum performance (tho this is not always necessary.

I would add grains and even some bones/dog biscuits for protein, old cereal is a massive favourite. If they are prone to eating the pups, cull the females you know are doing it and replace them, also only disturb them when you need to clean, I've never had a problem with females doing this after handling the pups, but then I wear latex gloves (habit ingrained from the viv lol).


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## Trench (Sep 30, 2011)

shooshoo said:


> sounds like not enough protein, i feed biomare plus dog kibble (puppy variety) and mixed seeds. some feed biomare on its own with no problems but i have better results when i add the dog food.



Thanks everyone 
The tub is about 55 litres, how big are your tubs Fay?
will get some dog kibble for them, does it have to be the puppy variety?
will also see about a tub for female with babys, but will need to have some with out babys to help baby sit as they have more than 12 babys 
rats aren't vegetarians either but I have been feeding them that and had great results :/

Cheers  Thanks for the help everyone, hopefully I will get some better results now.


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## FAY (Sep 30, 2011)

Trench, We have the breeders in those big URS rat tubs. Not sure how many litres.


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## Trench (Sep 30, 2011)

Ok, What do you think I should do?
get another tub?


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## wokka (Sep 30, 2011)

The liters in the tub is not important as height effects that without necessarily giving the mice more room. I think you need about 300cm2 per female but i have seen a lot less. If you have supermice and are going to grow babies then you'll need a lot more space.


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## Jen (Sep 30, 2011)

My tubs, 1:3


1:1


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## wokka (Sep 30, 2011)

Jen said:


> My tubs, 1:3View attachment 219982
> 
> 
> 1:1View attachment 219983


What size are they?


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## Jen (Oct 1, 2011)

wokka said:


> What size are they?



Not sure off the top of my head, will measure tomorrow. If it helps that is a 250ml bottle. I could keep 1:3 in the smaller box, but mine are supers and I prefer not to crowd. We (vivarium) used to keep maximum 8 adults in the small box - same sex only - and 25 in the larger, again, same sex.


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## Trench (Oct 1, 2011)

wokka said:


> The liters in the tub is not important as height effects that without necessarily giving the mice more room. I think you need about 300cm2 per female but i have seen a lot less. If you have supermice and are going to grow babies then you'll need a lot more space.



:shock::shock::shock: 3m2 for just for one little mouse!!!:shock::shock::shock:

300cm2 = 3m2
did you mean 300mm2? because 300cm2 is massive?

my tub is 500mm X 350mm and that has 15 mice in it (14 females and 1 male)
so I should get another tub?
I am not sure if they are supers the old owner thinks they have at least some super blood in them because of the amount of babys they have.


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## wokka (Oct 1, 2011)

Trench said:


> :shock::shock::shock: 3m2 for just for one little mouse!!!:shock::shock::shock:
> 
> 300cm2 = 3m2
> did you mean 300mm2? because 300cm2 is massive?


1m x 1m =100cm x 100cm = 10,000sq cm / sq m so 3sq m =30,000 sq cm.

I meant 30 sq cm = say 15cm x 20cm


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## Trench (Oct 1, 2011)

Ok  
nearly had a heart attack when I thought I would have to get some 3m tubs for them lol 
I am wanting to keep some of the females in groups so that if one has more than 12 babys it will have some other females to help care for them?
I am planing to have a rearing tub so once they are weaned they will go there untill they are of size.


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## Jay84 (Oct 1, 2011)

Trench said:


> my tub is 500mm X 350mm and that has 15 mice in it (14 females and 1 male)
> so I should get another tub?



In my opinion that tub is WAY TOO SMALL for 15 mice. Can't you tell that by looking at them in there? I use similar size tubs and i keep 1 male with 3 females in this size. 

With such overcrowding with the adults can you imagine how crowded it would be if each of those females had 10 babies and they all were weaned?!?!?!?!

Separate them and feed them some good quality pellets. I have had no babies eaten since i have fed them 'Cummins Rodent Pellets'.


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## solar 17 (Oct 1, 2011)

l separate all my pregnant females [into a nursury tub] half-way through their pregnancy [approx.] you will notice in a very short time your pinkie production will go up 4000% and then put them back [into their old tub] when you have used their pinkies "most" male mice have a terrible history of eating theirs and others children.
.........solar 17 [Baden]


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## wokka (Oct 1, 2011)

It is handy to have more than one tub so you can do comparison trials. Try say 4 females in one tub and 10 in the other and see which ones do best. Or equal numbers in both tubs but feed one tub say biomare and the other cummins and see if there is a difference. You'll be amazed how many of the popular comments you receive will not necessarily prove out in your trials.


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## Jay84 (Oct 1, 2011)

solar 17 said:


> l separate all my pregnant females [into a nursury tub] half-way through their pregnancy [approx.] you will notice in a very short time your pinkie production will go up 4000% and then put them back [into their old tub] when you have used their pinkies "most" male mice have a terrible history of eating theirs and others children.
> .........solar 17 [Baden]



Baden, ideally i would like to do this but just do not have the space available. One thing i would like to ask though is do you have any issues with the mice that are still left in the 'group' tub, attacking the female when she is reintroduced after having and raising the babies?

My mice are all little bitches and any new comer or reintroduced animal is attacked


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## solar 17 (Oct 1, 2011)

l only re-introduce when l change the wood shavings or whatever your sub-strate is.
.........Baden [solar 17]


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## JAS101 (Oct 1, 2011)

Jay84 said:


> My mice are all little bitches and any new comer or reintroduced animal is attacked


same here , even with new/clean substrate any new comers get chased and attacked .


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## Jay84 (Oct 1, 2011)

solar 17 said:


> l only re-introduce when l change the wood shavings or whatever your sub-strate is.
> .........Baden [solar 17]



You must have nice mice.... mine are bitches!



JAS101 said:


> same here , even with new/clean substrate any new comers get chased and attacked .



I'm the same.... they are so mean! Rats are so easy going compared to mice. They just sniff and are happy they have a new friend!


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## FAY (Oct 1, 2011)

We don't have any trouble with the mice. Probably because there is just so many of them and they have no choice but be shuffled around with different ones all the time.


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## wokka (Oct 1, 2011)

I think you are on the money Fay. If you reintroduce into a family of 5 females I dont think it is near as sucessful as putting them back in with another 50 females!


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## Tildy (Oct 4, 2011)

Mice will eat thier young if they feel threatened and often having males in the nursery will do that to them. Handling the babies is not a problem but if you only just acquired these mice then they don't know you at all. Maybe moving thier enclosures on top of having the male in the cage on top of getting used to a new human being handling them and the babies was all a bit much for her. I used to breed mice as a hobby in it's own and the only times my females ate thier young were when I left a male in the cage or sometimes a female that did not have young. None of my femles ever ate subsequent litters once I had addressed the issues that they had. They do not get a taste for thier young in my experience. So long as they feel safe and feel like there is enough food to go around then they will be fine. Just make sure that they each have thier own little nursery enclosure just in case and go from there. I have also never had a problem with re-introducing mice and them being attacked. Other female mice do not usually help with the rearing of the babies. The females are much happier doing it on thier own.


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