# Very unusual elapid i had to ID



## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 21, 2011)

well received a late night phonecall for the company i work for sydney snake catchers,from a vet regarding a snake that a german shepard was running around the backyard with in its mouth,and it was no small snake but a very burley black colored snake 1.5m long.The dog wouldnt drop it as requested from owners and got heavily worked up and down the side of its face/neck as you can imagine and the dog was now in critical condition and had received 2 vials of polyvalent antivenom. The snake had been killed or i should say put out of its misery with a shovel,which is a shame but it had received some very bad wounds from dog.
They showed pics of the snake to vet who could not id it so they contacted me and sent the pics.It looked like a large black snake but had absolutely no pigmentation apart from black anywhere on its body and looked like a chappel island tiger if anything it was so robust.It did have creamy colour between the ventral scales but apart from that all black.
The snake was in cambeltown i also have the exact GPS coordinates where it was found and i asked the people to bring it to me to lookat as there dog was being treated for Black snake envenomation and we wanted to know exactly what it was i was very curious.
They drove about 1 hour to get to me and presented the snake well actually bits of snake would be a better description.I was amazed as it appeeared very much a very robust Pseudechis but had no red belly whatsover not a sceric but black with a snall ammount of white between each ventral scale. I straight awaydid a scale count mid body and it was 17 scales,opposed to 19 scales would be a spotted black Pseudechis guttatus,it had divided anal scale and its head scalation matched Pseudechis porphyriacus also.
I have heard of and seen colour variations of this species but none as unusual as this one,many people have claimed to have seen but hardly ever seem to be able to produce pictures as proof.
so heres the pics of the all black Pseudechis porphyriacus,sorry about the dammage was a shame i would of love to have seen this specimen alive.






the whole snake




underside of tail is usually grey up to vent then coloured from vent forward. i popped hemipenes 









side on view of upper ventrals and dorsal scales




ventrals




head scalation





RIP Beautiful snake


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## bally (Apr 21, 2011)

top Pseudechis porphyriacus just unlucky day for it i guess. It would be great to find a specimen like this alive


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## vampstorso (Apr 21, 2011)

at first I thought...well, at least it wasn't TOO messed up...until I saw the last photo!
Gosh, poor thing :\

perhaps it's just blood, but in the last photo you can see slight red colouration?

Pity you didn't get to it alive

a very beautiful snake despite it all


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## zack13 (Apr 21, 2011)

Wow that is awesome I want one.


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## Jonno from ERD (Apr 21, 2011)

Hi Rob,

An unfortunate end to a very pretty snake. I owned one for a couple of years, it was originally on display at the Big Pineapple.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 21, 2011)

yea that slight red.. is blood  i sort of put it together for shots the best way i could.such a shame but the dog was given $7000 worth of veterinary care and still died,however the owners had never seen a snake before in there backyard and there dog had not attacked anything before,it was a German Shepard not one of those stupid foxys that constantly kill anything that moves.

it was a rare speciman in magnificent body condition,besides the obvious


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## zack13 (Apr 21, 2011)

Jonno from ERD said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> An unfortunate end to a very pretty snake. I owned one for a couple of years, it was originally on display at the Big Pineapple.


 
Do you know how common they are Jonno?


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## grizz (Apr 21, 2011)

There is photos of one in a collection floating around here I think


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## kawasakirider (Apr 21, 2011)

That thing looks so lethal and stealthy. Shame it was killed.

Any news on the dog?


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## snakehandler (Apr 21, 2011)

I have a few in captivity....beautiful animals!


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## kawasakirider (Apr 21, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> I have a few in captivity....beautiful animals!


 
Would you post some pics when you get a chance mate?


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## grizz (Apr 21, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> That thing looks so lethal and stealthy. Shame it was killed.
> 
> Any news on the dog?


 
Dog died


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## kawasakirider (Apr 21, 2011)

grizz said:


> Dog died


 
I didn't see the above post. That sucks so bad


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 21, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> I have a few in captivity....beautiful animals!




youu got pics?? post em up i want to see live ones im so depressed having a dead manky one in my freezer


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## Tassie97 (Apr 21, 2011)

sorry if this has all ready been stated but what is the common name of that snake ?

RIP poor thing


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## jack (Apr 21, 2011)

nice animal, id like an all black one but white ones are nicer


they can lose the red before sloughing, and they fade considerably with age.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 21, 2011)

white is nice ive seen pics of white bellies,i havent seen any all black though


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## zack13 (Apr 21, 2011)

Wow I'm yet to see a rrb I haven't thought was amazing. That white one is beyond amazing I love it.


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## TigerCoastal (Apr 21, 2011)

This one isnt owned by me, but took the pics of it earlier this year...


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## souldoubt (Apr 21, 2011)

wow! what an amazing looking animal tigercoastal, is it very old??

Shame about the dead snake, at least it was put out of it's suffering though - assuming the bite wound was severe of course.
I've seen white and more what I would call pink then red, but never all black


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## zack13 (Apr 21, 2011)

Anyone know how much these all black and white ones sell for in captivity or are they kept and traded among certain groups without the chance for most to purchase them?


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## TigerCoastal (Apr 21, 2011)

i'm not sure of the age i never asked, but it was a decent sized animal, i'd say around 1.4m-1.5m

This one was referred to as a "blue" belly


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 21, 2011)

TigerCoastal said:


> This one isnt owned by me, but took the pics of it earlier this year...


 






thats exactly what i wanted to see thanksmate,that is also very robust like the one in original post


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## Wookie (Apr 21, 2011)

I see some red in the last photo :lol:


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## jack (Apr 21, 2011)

zack13 said:


> Anyone know how much these all black and white ones sell for in captivity or are they kept and traded among certain groups without the chance for most to purchase them?


 
that animal only looks like that prior to sloughing, it is usually a pink belly!


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## No-two (Apr 21, 2011)

The white one is sloughing, they all go like that when theyre sloughing.
Very pretty animals.


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## SouthSydney (Apr 21, 2011)

I've seen one in real life, they're seriously amazing animals... Absolutely stunning! Would have to be close to my favourite snake...

There are pics of another one on APS, of a live, young one... It has changed hands since the thread was made though... And got older since... lol.


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## -Peter (Apr 21, 2011)

Tassie97 said:


> sorry if this has all ready been stated but what is the common name of that snake ?
> 
> RIP poor thing


 
Hypermelanistic red belly black snake.


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## Sutto82 (Apr 22, 2011)

Beautiful looking snake, sorry that it had to go the way it did.

RIP snake and pup.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 22, 2011)

TigerCoastal said:


> i'm not sure of the age i never asked, but it was a decent sized animal, i'd say around 1.4m-1.5m
> 
> This one was referred to as a "blue" belly


 

o sorry dude i thought you kn
ew what i meant that wasnt what i was looking for thats a Pseudechis guttatus,blue bellied black snake,they differ to Pseudechis porphyriacus.
The scale count is different and they are an oviparous (egg laying) species while Pseudechis porphyriacus is an ovivaparous it retains soft eggs that develop inside mother and ae born when ready to emerge from membranous sacs



No-two said:


> The white one is sloughing, they all go like that when theyre sloughing.
> Very pretty animals.



that has a red belly though


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## TigerCoastal (Apr 22, 2011)

cheers for the correction mate, ven's are something that i dont know alot about, am only just really starting to get into that side of the hobby and i have alot to learn.


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## CHEWY (Apr 22, 2011)

Awesome looking snake.
There was one for sale earlier this year. I wanted to buy it but it was already sold.
Can't remeber how much, but I'm broke and could afford it. Not too much more than a normal.


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## snakehandler (Apr 28, 2011)

This is one of my boys, we have a few girls like it too. We also have Blue Bellied Black Snakes (Pseudechis guttatus) Spotted Blacks as some people know them that are jet black, so it could be easy for someone who didn't know better to call my red belly a blue belly!


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## moosenoose (Apr 28, 2011)

-Peter said:


> Hypermelanistic red belly black snake.


 
:lol: Oh! I was going to call it a blackbellied black snake...but that'd be stupid 

Looks quite similar to the blue bellied black. But then I haven't seen one of those in the flesh yet.


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## CHEWY (Apr 28, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> View attachment 197671
> View attachment 197670
> 
> 
> ...


 
He looks hot, seeing that he is blue, do those flecks of grey become red after a shed? Any pics?
Looks similar to the one that was for sale earlier this year....if you are considering selling any like it, let me know.
Cheers for sharing.


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## snakehandler (Apr 28, 2011)

There is no red on this guy or any of the girls from the same area, they beautiful!


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 29, 2011)

snakehandler said:


> There is no red on this guy or any of the girls from the same area, they beautiful!


 
yea thanks for sharing that sean,that is what i was intersted to see,colour variations in the species with the least diversion in colour variation there is.
And what a shy and beautiful friend is Pseudechis porphyriacus.


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## [email protected] (Apr 29, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> :lol: Oh! I was going to call it a blackbellied black snake...but that'd be stupid
> 
> 
> hey there might be one out there not been descoverd as yet im not ruling it out pseudechis moosenoosi :lol:


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## bundybear (Apr 29, 2011)

nice one, shame the dog got it! theres an area up on the hawkesbury river i frequent from time to time where i see some very dark coloured snakes. the red bellies up there are very similar to this. also seen diamonds that have been near all black. there was a couple of browns i seen over summer that were very dark too. its an area that covers 3 valleys about 8kms x 5kms.


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## $NaKe PiMp (Apr 30, 2011)

yes i have caught Black eastern browns near there


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## snakehandler (Apr 30, 2011)

If you go to the Snakehandler Facebook page you will see an album, Hastings Deering, check out the variety of Eastern browns there, from black through to almost orange!


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## varanid_mike (Apr 30, 2011)

All my black snakes loose the red colouration while they are about to slough as well, might want to get a pic after it sloughs if you’re trying to show that it has very little red on it.


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## snakehandler (Apr 30, 2011)

Mike, there is NO red on this snake, ever!


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## -Peter (Apr 30, 2011)

Snakehandler's pictures show a pinky grey around the sub lateral area. That colour comes from the pre-slough not from the red. I base this on a couple of specimens that have come through my hands over the years. Bluebellies though dont have that. I would say it is because there is some subdued red pigment there that is highlighted as the spectrum passes through the oils under the out dermis during initial pre-slough. When they shed it doesn't show as red or pink.


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## Firedrake (Apr 30, 2011)

I have actually seen a Red Bellied Black in the wild, about three hours south of Perth near a town called Capel. It looked right at me and then when I called my brother to have a look it was gone. I've never seen one since, certainly a beautiful creature.


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## varanid_mike (Apr 30, 2011)

Sorry mate but it must have been a dugite or another snake species. There are no red belly black snakes in WA.


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## Firedrake (May 13, 2011)

Well it was definitely red and black. We lived in the bush so there were always snakes around, found plenty of what we called copperheads and boring brown ones that were probably deadly. I had to relocate a hatchie down the road so dad wouldn't kill it. No idea what that was.


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## kawasakirider (May 13, 2011)

Are collets in WA?


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## Australis (May 13, 2011)

no


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## Elapidae1 (May 13, 2011)

The myth of RBB's and Copperheads in the south of our state is common. I think because many of these communities have members that have lived their whole lives in these places and have a level of respect given them, that it only takes one person to say it's so and the myth continues to be perpetuated. I recently had cause to be in Collie to remove snakes and the majoritie of people in the site believed they were seeing copperheads.


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## Firedrake (May 13, 2011)

Ok had a look, found some pictures of Dugites, never seen one in my life. The ones we called copperheads were probably Mulga snakes. Real Copperheads live in Vic and NSW. Still can't find anything that looks like what I saw.

I can't find a single snake species that has a red belly and black top that lives in WA. Yet that's exactly what I saw. So I haven't got a clue what it actually was.


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## Elapidae1 (May 13, 2011)

Not a Mulga in Capel either. How big was it?


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## Firedrake (May 13, 2011)

Not sure only saw about a quarter of the front, might have been a meter or so long all up. I just remember it being very red and very black, especially because I was so close and I knew they are highly venomous. Almost didn't want to look away in case it went, which it did.

I checked the location on mulgas they do live there, but thats not what it was.


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## Elapidae1 (May 13, 2011)

No they don't occur in Capel
Probably a Tiger


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## lazylizzy (May 13, 2011)

if u can find cornsnakes in an odd place why not a rbb?


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## Firedrake (May 13, 2011)

LoL ok so there was a tiny white spot that I missed...wish I could have taken photos of all the snakes I saw when I was younger. I would have a whole herping collection by now.


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## varanid_mike (May 13, 2011)

Could be a very long distance hitch hiker, we get pythons from far north by accident in Vic, lets to say a red belly somehow made it over there as a hitchhiker. It’s very unlikely but not impossible.


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## Elapidae1 (May 13, 2011)

Not impossible but throw it in with every other report of RBB's down there and it's unlikely.

I wasn't trying to be picky Firedrake, RE the Mulga, but it's a prime example of how we end up with people believing that RBBS and Copperheads reside in places like Capel and Collie


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## Firedrake (May 13, 2011)

True, still have no idea why I saw what I saw, or what it was. Could be a new species


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## jack (May 13, 2011)

i have spoken to a bloke from wa who swore he saw a thylacine there... i wonder is a redbelly sighting more or less probable?


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