# Snakebite Standoff



## Snake Catcher Victoria (Mar 16, 2009)

http://www.theage.com.au/national/g...snakebite-standoff-20090314-8yi0.html?page=-1
I was just sent this article.
How would you 'cover up' an envenomation from a viper?
Gimme aussie elapids anyday.

  

 




*Giant boas, deadly vipers and a snakebite stand-off*


*Mark Russell *
March 15, 2009





A deadly North American western diamondback albino rattlesnake. Photo: _Ben Rushton_ 

DOCTORS who do not dob in the collectors of banned deadly snakes who seek treatment after being bitten are putting the public at risk, according to Victoria's senior wildlife cop.
Keith Larner says he is fed up with doctors treating snakebite victims under a veil of secrecy, and wants them to alert authorities if the patient is the owner of an illegal exotic reptile.
He said while he respected doctor-patient confidentiality, medics who refused to provide the names of such patients to the Department of Sustainability and Environment were irresponsible.
Doctors are not required to report cases of snakebite, but Mr Larner believes they have a duty to help authorities prevent members of the public from being put at risk of deadly snakes that have either escaped or been dumped by bored owners.
"If people have got cobras, vipers, rattlesnakes … held illegally in their houses, we want to know about it and, yes, we will take out a search warrant and, yes, we will go to those houses and seize those collections and prosecute the people for having them," Mr Larner said.
"With some of these deadly venomous animals there is no anti-venene available in Australia. So it's a very high risk for DSE officers who go to people's houses to search for these creatures and also for police, firemen and ambulance officers who may … attend these premises."
He said DSE officers working in the field were hearing about snakebite incidents and it was frustrating that doctors were refusing to hand over the names "or even the numbers of people being bitten or the suburbs where these snakes are being kept".
"They might say they want people to feel free to come forward to get treatment but I think doctors also have an obligation to protect the rest of the community from being attacked by reptiles such as rattlesnakes.
"People have handed in boa constrictors they've found in the park big enough to eat cats, dogs and small children."
In one recent case, a Carrum woman, 42, was charged after two boa constrictors — native to Central and South America — were found in her home on March 5.
It is illegal in Australia to possess, breed or trade exotic reptiles and the woman faces up to five years' jail and a $110,000 fine.
Between 2000 and 3000 people are bitten by snakes each year in Australia, although only about 1000 bites are inflicted by venomous snakes.
The Australian Medical Association's state vice-president, Dr Harry Hemley, said doctors' primary concern was for their patients' health.
"Doctors are obliged to safeguard the confidentiality of the patient and to ensure the patient has access to appropriate health care," he said.
"This doctor-patient confidentiality must be maintained. Exceptions to this are taken very seriously and would only occur if there was a serious risk to the patient or another person, or where a doctor is required by law to pass on information, for things like communicable diseases. Doctors are not currently obliged to report snake bites and would hesitate to break doctor-patient confidentiality. We'd hate for anyone to avoid getting medical care for fear of being prosecuted by the DSE."
Mr Larner said he was disappointed with doctors' attitudes because it was not in the public interest.
"People (who keep exotic reptiles) are lawbreakers and these doctors who treat them should be doing something to help the rest of the community," he said.
"It's not about us taking people to court. It's about getting rid of these pests before they escape."


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## nabu120 (Mar 16, 2009)

i reckon drs should report them, as much as i would love to be able to own an exotic snake, the law states i cant, n to than release it into our native areas that just plain stupid! 

n how hard would it be to get an antivenene for one of those snake bites do you think? wouldnt you be as good as dead?


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## Dusty62 (Mar 16, 2009)

I wonder if the Doctors would enter a house for a patient that has been bitten by an exotic which is now on the loose for treament - I think not, so why should DSE officers have to risk thier lives searching for the offenders. I think Doctors should by law have to report all exotic bites just as they have to do for child abuse and such.

TMO
Dusty


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## mebebrian (Mar 16, 2009)

The few minutes it may take for someone to decide weather or not they want to risk losing thier entire reptile collection may be the difference between life and death, is it really worth a human life?

I think not.


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## Dan123 (Mar 16, 2009)

i reckon dse should do something themselves for once.
of all the government organisations we love to hate dse would have to be the BIGGEST waste of tax payer money

and hows this relevant. because dse would love doctors to dob in patients so they can waste money organising a full blown special operations group style search of someones house and in the end give the culprit a slap on the wrist or some wussy 2k tops fine.


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## m.punja (Mar 16, 2009)

hmm, I have mixed feelings about this. If the doctors start informing then the keepers will stop seeking treatment is really the bottom line, so in a way if the doctors go to the authority then in its own way it is endangering lives. It will be an interesting debate and I look forward to seeing other peoples opinions.


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## funcouple (Mar 16, 2009)

wouldnt it be a breach of privacy if the doctor gave out any information about the patient?


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## Earthling (Mar 16, 2009)

funcouple said:


> wouldnt it be a breach of privacy if the doctor gave out any information about the patient?


 
Yes Doctor-Patient confidentiality is a very good thing, which as much as it jacks of the authorities they cant get all the info on us...we need this confidentiality.


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## pythonmum (Mar 16, 2009)

Tough issue because safety of others comes into it.

On a lighter note - only 2000 - 3000 snakebites a year? They sure don't count people being tagged and not needing treatment!


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## sarah_m (Mar 17, 2009)

Not only are they breaking the law but they are putting others at risk.
If they get bitten by an exotic ven then that is their tough luck, they should be reported.
They know it is illegal and they know the risks, if they choose to accept that risk that is up to them, but don't put others in danger out of selfishness.

Imagine your child is bitten by a snake, you did'nt see it so cant identify it and doctors tests dont show what it is............. Eventually the child dies because treatment is ineffectual.
Then you find out that someone in your neighbourhood has been keeping rattle snakes and "Oops, one escaped". Also you find out that doctors knew he had these snakes, but did not report him for fear that he would not come for treatment if required in the future.

How do you feel now?
The laws are in place for a reason.............to protect people.


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## Mrs I (Mar 17, 2009)

sarah_m said:


> Not only are they breaking the law but they are putting others at risk.
> If they get bitten by an exotic ven then that is their tough luck, they should be reported.
> They know it is illegal and they know the risks, if they choose to accept that risk that is up to them, but don't put others in danger out of selfishness.
> 
> ...


 
Well said !


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## Jonno from ERD (Mar 17, 2009)

pythonmum said:


> Tough issue because safety of others comes into it.
> 
> On a lighter note - only 2000 - 3000 snakebites a year? They sure don't count people being tagged and not needing treatment!



It's correct - on average only 3000 people present at hospital with snake bites every year and of those only approximately 500 require antivenom therapy.

Here's a post I made that's a little more in depth - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/snakebite-fatality-information-89473


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## jordo (Mar 17, 2009)

m.punja said:


> hmm, I have mixed feelings about this. If the doctors start informing then the keepers will stop seeking treatment is really the bottom line, so in a way if the doctors go to the authority then in its own way it is endangering lives. It will be an interesting debate and I look forward to seeing other peoples opinions.



Seek treatment for a potentially fatal bite, OR sit it out with a few beers to avoid getting caught... maybe the gene pool wouldn't miss the people that made the wrong decision.


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## zack13 (Mar 20, 2009)

sarah_m said:


> Not only are they breaking the law but they are putting others at risk.
> If they get bitten by an exotic ven then that is their tough luck, they should be reported.
> They know it is illegal and they know the risks, if they choose to accept that risk that is up to them, but don't put others in danger out of selfishness.
> 
> ...


 
THe law is in place for a reason your right that is why there is doctor patient confidentiality it is the law so im confused as to which side you stand on. Also if the doctor knew this person had exotics and your kid came in with a bite not from australia you dont think he would try to get antivenom for exotics or something? so your saying since he didnt report him he is going to ignore that fact that he knows when a little kids life is at risk? once you report one crime you must report them all. so say your kid tries drugs once (as almost all teems do) but over doses and goes to hospital they should be inform the police who should press charges? 2 mates get in a fight one needs stiches but they get over it and are friends but the doctor still has to report it to the police? your last sentace says it all the law is in place for a reason and doctor patient confidentiality is to protect people.

JMO


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## Maree (Mar 20, 2009)

m.punja said:


> hmm, I have mixed feelings about this. If the doctors start informing then the keepers will stop seeking treatment is really the bottom line, so in a way if the doctors go to the authority then in its own way it is endangering lives. It will be an interesting debate and I look forward to seeing other peoples opinions.



Exactly! Unless it is the law, then no, drs shouldn't expected break their hippocratic oath nor should government bodies expect them too or tell them they are being irresponsible if they do not. Doctors who break patient confidentiality are risking their right to practice, on the otherhand DSE is risking nothing by requesting they do so.


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## mebebrian (Mar 20, 2009)

sarah_m said:


> The laws are in place for a reason.............to protect people.


 

Exactly, so why change them?


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## Maree (Mar 20, 2009)

Jonno from ERD said:


> It's correct - on average only 3000 people present at hospital with snake bites every year and of those only approximately 500 require antivenom therapy.
> 
> Here's a post I made that's a little more in depth - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes/snakebite-fatality-information-89473



That was really interesting.Thanks for posting it. I was surprised that there was only 2.65 bites per year over 10 years and NONE of them were attributed to exotics. Is DSE merely making a public media beatup? One wonders where the crap came from in the first place. Has there ever been a venomous exotic bite that killed someone who shouldn't have had the animal in Australia? 
The road toll unfortunately garners no publicity for DSE or otherwise they would have some figures to spout about!


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## Bushfire (Mar 20, 2009)

One case I can remember was back in the early 90s a keeper was bitten by a rattlesnake in Warrnambool. Cant remember if they died or survived.


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## kupper (Mar 20, 2009)

its rather stupid but , doctor patient confidentiality is important . If dse got of there backsides and actually investigated properly then they would find exotics right under there nose 

behind every DSE officer i reckon there is a few DSE raid fuelled exotic collections


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## sarah_m (Mar 20, 2009)

zack13 said:


> THe law is in place for a reason your right that is why there is doctor patient confidentiality it is the law so im confused as to which side you stand on. Also if the doctor knew this person had exotics and your kid came in with a bite not from australia you dont think he would try to get antivenom for exotics or something? so your saying since he didnt report him he is going to ignore that fact that he knows when a little kids life is at risk? once you report one crime you must report them all. so say your kid tries drugs once (as almost all teems do) but over doses and goes to hospital they should be inform the police who should press charges? 2 mates get in a fight one needs stiches but they get over it and are friends but the doctor still has to report it to the police? your last sentace says it all the law is in place for a reason and doctor patient confidentiality is to protect people.
> 
> JMO


The laws that protect people that i am refering to are the laws that say you cant keep exotics, in this case venemous exotics.
The kid that accidently OD's is only putting himself at risk.
I am talking about people who put others at risk by breaking the law and keeping these reptiles. These are the ones that i think should be reported.


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## getarealdog (Apr 1, 2009)

*The Law*



zack13 said:


> THe law is in place for a reason your right that is why there is doctor patient confidentiality it is the law so im confused as to which side you stand on. Also if the doctor knew this person had exotics and your kid came in with a bite not from australia you dont think he would try to get antivenom for exotics or something? so your saying since he didnt report him he is going to ignore that fact that he knows when a little kids life is at risk? once you report one crime you must report them all. so say your kid tries drugs once (as almost all teems do) but over doses and goes to hospital they should be inform the police who should press charges? 2 mates get in a fight one needs stiches but they get over it and are friends but the doctor still has to report it to the police? your last sentace says it all the law is in place for a reason and doctor patient confidentiality is to protect people.
> 
> JMO


 Well Said-just opening a can of worms


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## getarealdog (Apr 2, 2009)

*Bites*



Maree said:


> That was really interesting.Thanks for posting it. I was surprised that there was only 2.65 bites per year over 10 years and NONE of them were attributed to exotics. Is DSE merely making a public media beatup? One wonders where the crap came from in the first place. Has there ever been a venomous exotic bite that killed someone who shouldn't have had the animal in Australia?
> The road toll unfortunately garners no publicity for DSE or otherwise they would have some figures to spout about!


 You can add dog bites as well


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