# Venomous Snake Enclosure Design



## Mulgaaustralis (May 7, 2012)

Hi there

This is my first thread so be nice. 
I've been keeping hots for a year now and I've decided to upgrade my enclosures. 
Right now they are in 3ft x 2ft by 2ft which is ok. But there is a lot of unused space in height dimension. So I'm lowering the enclosures and subsequently I can have more enclosures at a safe height when banked (nothing above my shoulders)

I would like to hear from some experience elapid keepers in what sort of enclosures you use (not tubs, nothing against them, I just don't plan to use them)

Front opening/slide/door, top opening, trap boxes, dimensions etc etc. 

Also just so we know what we are dealing with. Mainly pseudechis, australaps and pseudonaja


----------



## imported_Varanus (May 7, 2012)

Personally, I wouldn't go lower than 600mm in height or much wider than 600mm (unless it's for large Kingies) for reasons of safety. That's something I would change about the poly cages (450mmx 710mm wide). Too narrow and not much visibility when reaching in and I only have short little arms. Removable trap boxes are a good idea, though I don't use them. Never had any issues with front or top opening, though you can stack more cages if you have them front opening (obviously). For most species 1200mm x600mm x 600mm except large Kingies (planning on going 2400mm x 1200mm x 600mm) and Tais and Adders (though I don't keep these).


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 7, 2012)

Thanks for that Imported Varanus. Any other opinions?


----------



## fantapants (May 7, 2012)

These are questions no venomous snake owner should be asking, especially if you have hots already! not being nasty


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 7, 2012)

Why? 
Not everyone does everything the same way. 
Do you know everything there is about keeping venomous snakes already or are you still learning? I don't need 101 on keeping them, I'm just after an opinion on dimensions and what other people keep their elapids in. 
I've met plenty of keepers who do stuff differently. Some would make you glow in disgust others would make you laugh at their safety issues. 
From people using tongs, gloves, protective head shields, free handling, natural enclosures, sterile enclosures, etc etc.


----------



## Snake_Whisperer (May 7, 2012)

snakeface said:


> These are questions no venomous snake owner should be asking, especially if you have hots already! not being nasty



Actually, these are EXACTLY the questions elapid keepers should be asking. not being nasty  I'll be watching this thread for inspiration of my own.


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 7, 2012)




----------



## jack (May 7, 2012)

the slide out box on the european effort above is cool, but the owner points out one big prob with it on the forum you found the image on. 
i have a lift out lockable hide box in with my inland. 
stick with top opening till you get more experience, it is easier to put a flighty snake back into.


----------



## eipper (May 7, 2012)

Its a catch 22 more height allows for more options (heating and lighting wise) and better visability (opt a), while shorter allows more cages (Opt b). Having had option b for 20 odd years, now I am going to "option A" now and just buliding more enclosures.

The genera you listed are all pretty variable in size and dispostion and depending on your housing protocols/ability/risk manangement really depends on how to deal with the caging. Generally the size for all of those species within _Pseudonaja_, _Pseudechis_ and _Austrelaps_ should be around the 4 x 2 x 1.5. The following species could be housed in 3 X 2 X 1.5 : _Pseudechis weigeli_, _P. pailsei_ and P. sp.nov (Undescribed), _A. labialis_ and _Pseudonaja guttata_ and _P. modesta_.

I prefer shift boxes compared to trap boxes myself. There is a manufacture of these in Queensland now, and they work really well. 

Just as a side note you should post pictures of other peoples enclosures without there permission (that is Frank's inland cage from venomland)

Cheers,
Scott


----------



## fantapants (May 7, 2012)

Snake_Whisperer said:


> Actually, these are EXACTLY the questions elapid keepers should be asking. not being nasty  I'll be watching this thread for inspiration of my own.



sorry but i totally disagree, elapid keepers should not be asking these questions at all because these are requirements everyone should know prior to ownership not after! Do a venomous snake course for crying out loud!!! these snakes can kill you!! No-one without extensive knowledge in safe handling and retention of venomous reptiles including housing and correct first aid to yourself and others should be able to own elapids, their a risk to themselves and those around them! Educate yourself first in all aspects of venomous snakes by joining a herp society, meet experienced owners and you wont need to post such basic questions! because if you dont know, why the hell have you got venomous snakes in your house!! and yes, i have 15 plus years experience with venomous snakes, i.m a snake catcher in adelaide and i waited 5 years before i decided to keep elapids.


----------



## eipper (May 7, 2012)

Snakeface,

Simply put can you tell me exactly how a venomous snake husbandry course is going to better educate a person on the housing requirements of an individual snake. In this case they have been keeping apparently for a year. They are asking about what other people do, no point in having a go....better off being constructive. Or simply if you don't feel like assisting then leave your two cents at the door so to speak....

Cheers,
Scott


----------



## fantapants (May 7, 2012)

well i'm going to eat some humble pie, apologies to Mulga, i questioned your reptile keeping abilities and i crossed the line. Not proud of that assumption at all because believe it or not, thats the first personnal attack i've posted on a forum! sorry dude


----------



## eipper (May 7, 2012)

Takes a big person to apologise snakeface.... Good form


----------



## getarealdog (May 7, 2012)

As adults my pseudechis & notechis spend 8/9months of the year in outdoor tubs & pits. Other than that they stay in tubs or 3foot cages, am looking at doing a bank of 4footers. Use 5litre plastic containers for hides/trap boxes. My pseudonaja & australaps are still on the small side & so live in plastic tubs. This works for me in Victoria.
1 of my outdoor tubs.




Outdoor pits


----------



## Wrightpython (May 7, 2012)

Are you asking for viewing pleasure or ease of handling as cages for both are different. I like the outdoor pits myself.


----------



## Elapidae1 (May 7, 2012)

I had a bad experience with a top opening enclosure when transferring a relocation animal and while I don't keep Elapids permanently I have thought front opening would be the better option ever since.

My concerns with top opening enclosures is leaving the forearm exposed when opening and fall injury to the snake when replacing and/or removing, I would be interested to hear how people overcome this.

As for not being ready to keep Elapids if a person still needs to ask these questions there is only so much one can learn from watching and reading eventually one has to take the plunge.
Even among the most experienced handlers/keepers I know there is a lot of variation in methods


----------



## baxtor (May 7, 2012)

I prefer front opening for the better use of available space. I think there is always going to be pros and cons regarding safety (top verses front) but I have not as yet had any issues due to where the opening is, I do believe snakes are more comfortable with an approach from the same level rather than from above.
Size wise I use a range of sizes and the animals are moved from one size to the next as growth determines.


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 7, 2012)

Thanks Snake Face. 

Just to make this clear. I think I'm fine keeping elapids and I'm the first to admit I'm no expert. I've been handling and finding them since I was 10 years old. I've keeping Red Bellies and Browns for short periods from a young age when I just found (before I knew about licensing) and have only recently started keeping them on a long term because of all that licensing.
I'm sure many others can relate to this

Again, I was just after different opinions. I've only had the one type of enclosure ("x"mm by 600 by 600) for elapids and I thought I may get a second opinion before changing.

I keep mine in front sliding enclosures with a trap box made from either two lunch boxes (much more stable and rigid compared to icecream containers) and for smaller animals I've used two small margarine tubs.

I've been around top opening and I always found that more dangerous in my opinion, purely because you are coming from above and it can make them slightly nervous. It is interesting that others differ though. In the end it may just be what you feel comfortable with

As for courses.... I always thought that was for idiots. But that's just my opinion. There's no way you can learn the motor skills with a hook, how to tail, tube and generally restrain elapids in a two day course. To me they are suicide to people who have never dealt with elapids in a captive or herping environment.

Thanks for the all the info 


P.S Eipper, thanks for the tip on photos, I'm new at posting, I've just been lurking on others.


----------



## Jason.s (May 7, 2012)

I love this thread, it's good to get new ideas and see other peoples setups as what might of been alright ten years ago
might not be now.
With regulations forever changing it's good to keep things up to date.
Thanks Jason


----------



## notechistiger (May 7, 2012)

I don't keep elapids (yet xD), but I was wondering if you have any photos of the trap boxes made from lunch boxes? They sound interesting =)


----------



## Mulgaaustralis (May 8, 2012)

It's not really. 
Just one lunch box with a secure lid. 
Cut a hole out. 
That's the normal hide. 
Then get your second lunch box and add a pinloop screw on it so you can put it on your hook. 
This goes onto the first lunch box securely and is a temporary trap for the elapids when your doing quick clean ups. 
Not very pleasing to the eye but very safe.


----------



## Frozenmouse (May 8, 2012)

I personally don't like open top cages and tubs due to the clumsy nature and possible dropping a heavy lid onto the animal if you need to get out of the way quickly.
Although those outdoor ones in the other post looked pretty neat.
There is a good clip on you tube of a guy getting tagged on the belly by a monocle cobra 
as he fumbled putting it back into a top opening tub.
Don't get offended by some of the replies, as soon as you ask a question some people assume you know nothing.


----------



## jacks-pythons (May 8, 2012)

eipper said:


> Snakeface,
> 
> Simply put can you tell me exactly how a venomous snake husbandry course is going to better educate a person on the housing requirements of an individual snake. In this case they have been keeping apparently for a year. They are asking about what other people do, no point in having a go....better off being constructive. Or simply if you don't feel like assisting then leave your two cents at the door so to speak....
> 
> ...



completely agree. when it comes to elapids no keeper can be 100% with anything as new and better ways of keeping and breeding are created regulatly. u cant make mistakes in keeping if u dont try new things which will limit the possibilities of the perfect elapid. no course can teach you the individual husbandry techniques needed for different species determining location and breed. sharing experience and ideas is the way this passion moves forward, yeah thats right i said passion. i dont keep herps for hobby, i do it cause i love everything about them. my herps are my life and thats fine with me and i dont care how anyone else sees my life or point of view. your welcome planet earth.


----------

