# Paradox Albino's



## orientalis (Jul 29, 2010)

Questions....

1.Does anyone else who frequents this site own Albino Darwin Carpet's with various BLACK Markings on their animals????

2.We have coined the following names for our animals which exhibit these traits and want to know what the public feel is most appropriate. 

Peppered Black Albino's?
or
Black Speckled Albino's?

3.Can anyone offer a more appropriate label?


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 29, 2010)

I like the name paradox albinos, but it's a bit vague. I, personally, would avoid having the word "black" and "albino" in the same coined term - again, confusing. So, if I were the one doing the marketing, I would say "Peppered Albino", and show a pic to demonstrate what you mean.

Can I ask, what are the genetics behind this line of animal? And, can we have a pic?


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## wiz-fiz (Jul 29, 2010)

PIC!!! then you will get a suggestion 


Will


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## wokka (Jul 29, 2010)

How about Dalmations?


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## solar 17 (Jul 29, 2010)

A good name "diamond dots" LOL solar 17 [Baden]


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## cement (Jul 29, 2010)

My male has one little dot.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2010)

hypermelanistic albino's


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## driftoz (Jul 29, 2010)

yes deff a pic please, but if it has black markings then its not an albino is it ? if im correct.


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## mungus (Jul 29, 2010)

How about ......." Checkered Albino's "


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## Kurto (Jul 29, 2010)

Isn't 'Paradox Albino' already the appropriate name?


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## BrownHash (Jul 29, 2010)

Pseudo Albino?

Picks definitely though, sounds like an interesting animal


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## Jason (Jul 29, 2010)

wokka said:


> How about Dalmations?


 
I like that!
otherwise i like paradox albino.... its funny, i was only looking through the albino special reptiles australia issue, specifically for pics of the paradox. I have been meaning to post to see what is happening with them.
judging by this post, i assume things are looking positive?

would love to see some more pics?


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## -Peter (Jul 30, 2010)

peppered is usually referred to as calico. its up to you really.


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## cement (Jul 30, 2010)

Black Albino. Give it a weird Zen feel!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Jul 30, 2010)

Why do they have to be called anything other than paradox? Im sure a good genetics book will give some insight into the correct scientific terminology of most anomalies.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Jul 30, 2010)

I may be wrong, but aren't the odds of getting a Paradox something like 1 in 1 000 000 and isnt the trait un-inheritable. Southern x has one and I am unaware of any others.

Do you have one?


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## Ramsayi (Jul 30, 2010)

BARRAMUNDI said:


> I may be wrong, but aren't the odds of getting a Paradox something like 1 in 1 000 000 and isnt the trait un-inheritable. Southern x has one and I am unaware of any others.
> 
> Do you have one?



That is also my understanding.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Jul 30, 2010)

orientalis said:


> Questions....
> 
> 1.Does anyone else who frequents this site own Albino Darwin Carpet's with various BLACK Markings on their animals????
> 
> ...



This post suggests you have a Paradox and possibly more than 1 (very rare), if you do have numerous Paradox Albinos that surely is something special......

Can you confirm???????


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## AM Pythons (Jul 30, 2010)

up to orientalis to confirm... if i had the money i would have snapped one up...


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## orientalis (Jul 30, 2010)

We have 4 albino's with black scales on them....They were all produced at SXR from the same dam, but are from seperate seasons.....2004 and 2005.........(SXR use multiple males generally)
We know 100% for certain that this is a inheritable trait......... as there are other reptile keeper's who have purchased offspring, produced from our animals, who also have albino's with black scales......(from albino x albino pairings and also 100% het x albino pairings)

There are also other's out there who keep albino's, who also have SXR produced animals, whose animals also have black scales on them....Same dam again......
So, obviously this is a inheritable trait......

When i think of... 'Paradox Albino', i think of the beautiful and unusual specimen that the wider herp community all know was produced from SXR....and still owned by SXR....
this is why i would like to find a suitable name for our animals.......

I thought the odds for a paradox occurring were 1 chance in 20-30 thousand......
Who actually knows?

We have gravid girls and are very eager to see what can be produced this season.....

Egg-citing times.

Please, keep the names coming......


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## AM Pythons (Jul 30, 2010)

good on you Mick.. lucky you..


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 30, 2010)

Soooo..... no pics?


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## HOM3L3SS (Jul 30, 2010)

can you please put some piccies up orientalis???

ohh and if i would just call them pepper albinos


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## reptileaddiction (Jul 30, 2010)

CarpetPythons.com.au said:


> Why do they have to be called anything other than paradox?


I think it's to make more money.

I know of someone who produced a few that weren't from SXR.


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## BARRAMUNDI (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks for confirming, 

If this trait is inheritable, then possibly this is a different form of Paradox compared to whats seen in other projects throughout the world. Very cool, 

As for name, how about : inheritable Paradox, basic, but describes it for what it is


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## orientalis (Jul 30, 2010)

Why do they have to be called anything other than paradox?


reptileaddiction said:


> I think it's to make more money.
> 
> Because......when you say the word Paradox.....everyone immediately thinks of a one off animal owned by SXR...........
> 
> ...


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## AM Pythons (Jul 30, 2010)

'orientalis'... i think the prices are fine mate. if i had the cash i would have got one.


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## CodeRed (Jul 30, 2010)

hope you've cleared out your inbox, there'll be a few enquiries coming your way LOL

now, stop teasing and show us some photos .....


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## smeejason (Jul 30, 2010)

Dalmatian or appaloosa..

do i win one if i have the best name.:shock::lol:


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## reptileaddiction (Jul 30, 2010)

orientalis said:


> Why do they have to be called anything other than paradox?
> 
> 
> reptileaddiction said:
> ...


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## orientalis (Jul 30, 2010)

reptileaddiction said:


> orientalis said:
> 
> 
> > Why do they have to be called anything other than paradox?
> ...


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## BARRAMUNDI (Jul 30, 2010)

I dont think in this case the name Paradox is fitting at all. Paradox Albinos have a 1 in 100 000 (or close to) chance of occuring, the trait is also considered un-inheritable. 

Where the Paradox trait we are discussing is heritable and obviously occurs far more frequently. Therefore not really the same trait and perhaps justification for a different name......

what are they worth?????


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## jamesbecker (Jul 30, 2010)

shows us a couple pix!


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Jul 30, 2010)

If its inheritable then you should be able to have probabilities for this trait? Have you worked out the probabilities yet? It should be predictable in an inheritable trait?


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## orientalis (Jul 30, 2010)

They are worth working with to see what can be developed......

I'm interested in some ideas towards a name.......any more suggestions?


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## caustichumor (Jul 30, 2010)

Photos to show the amount of peppering would be good, I have a woma that has a couple of haphazard white scales at the moment but I am reluctant to name it a salted woma at this point ;-)


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## BARRAMUNDI (Jul 30, 2010)

orientalis said:


> They are worth working with to see what can be developed......
> 
> I'm interested in some ideas towards a name.......any more suggestions?


 
Dont think you can go wrong with Peppered Albino.

Can you pm me price and availability, interested in adding some to my projects.


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 30, 2010)

Apertured, bespangled, dotty-backed, flea-bitten, freckled, honeycombed, patched, perforated, pocky, pointillistic, punctuated, shot-gunned, spangled, spattered, spiced, sprinkled, stippled, studded.... 

can we puh-leeeeeze see pics, now? :lol:


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## reptileaddiction (Jul 30, 2010)

orientalis said:


> Correction........SXR did not produce ALL of ours.....
> SXR only produced ALL our adults.......BUT, our adults have produced albino's with black scales.......


 
Ergo they are the same line. Don't get me wrong I'm having a go at you. How you market your animals is up to you. I was initally just answering the question as to why would they be renamed. I put forward why I thought they would be renamed. I still believe this to be the case.[/



BARRAMUNDI said:


> I dont think in this case the name Paradox is fitting at all. Paradox Albinos have a 1 in 100 000 (or close to) chance of occuring, the trait is also considered un-inheritable.
> 
> Where the Paradox trait we are discussing is heritable and obviously occurs far more frequently. Therefore not really the same trait and perhaps justification for a different name......
> 
> what are they worth?????


 
Definition of paradox from Merriam-Webster dictionary: one (as a person, situation, or action) having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases

As you can see the term paradox was given due to the contradiction. Albinos by definition have no melanin (black) and when these albinos have some it is a contradiction It has nothing to do with being able to genetically reproduce the trait. That's just an added bonus.


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## orientalis (Jul 30, 2010)

caustichumor said:


> Photos to show the amount of peppering would be good, I have a woma that has a couple of haphazard white scales at the moment but I am reluctant to name it a salted woma at this point ;-)



Fair enough, but when your woma starts producing offspring with white scales, you will then won't you?
This is where we are now

And as for the proabilities..................too early to give exact numbers.....i don't think that could be calculated at this point and don't think we should give hypotheticals........
Obviously, if there is ? amount out of the total albino's so far produced.....that equals 1 in x?
x being an unknown at this point.......odds are, better than even chance of it happening again and again.......


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## reptileaddiction (Jul 30, 2010)

orientalis said:


> reptileaddiction said:
> 
> 
> > Correction........SXR did not produce ALL of ours.....
> ...


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 30, 2010)

"Black Spot Albino's"

"Hyper Spot Albino's"

Do we get a prize..... like one of them if you take up the name....lol 

PM me as well with a price please? 
Cheers mate..


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## Jason (Jul 30, 2010)

im very excited about this more then ever. i have wanted a paradox since first seeing the pics of the animal at SXR. now knowing that it may be heritable (well more so then previously thought)... very exciting, i love them! 

i can see why people are 'against' renaming! if SXR produced the first ones and then more have been produced from animals that have been purchased from SXR hence you purchased the gene, after the 'trait' has been labelled, then they are paradox albinos. its no different if i purchased a hypo from SXR and then produced 'hypos' but because i produced then i wanted to label them something other then hypo... when in fact thats what they are.

anyway i like dalmation as wokka said early on in the thread. best of luck, please keep us updated. im VERY interested in the project!
is the black noticeable in hatchlings or is it something that establishes over time?


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## Jungle_Freak (Jul 30, 2010)

What about speckled paradox albino .
Gives a exact description of the speckled pattern over the albino morph


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## jamesbecker (Jul 30, 2010)

yes id definalty be breeding albino x albino both showing the black spots.

if the trait is inheritable some of the offspring will be albino and will show the spots, probably even more noticable then its parents.. then breed het peppered albino x peppered albino and see what happens.. if only i had money haha


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## impulse reptiles (Jul 30, 2010)

The Matrix albino  Especially if granit carpet blood was involved.


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## Wild~Touch (Jul 30, 2010)

"Speckled Spice Albino" has a certain ring to it


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## blakehose (Jul 30, 2010)

Jungle_Freak said:


> What about speckled paradox albino .
> Gives a exact description of the speckled pattern over the albino morph


 
I agree.


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 30, 2010)

"Poker Dot Albino's" 

man i'm into this gig...lol

But love to see some pics!!!

Can you answer Jas's question, which is interesting about visual scales as hatchies????


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## Camo (Jul 30, 2010)

Pictures would be great.


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## Jay84 (Jul 30, 2010)

Are we going to get pictures at all????


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## caustichumor (Jul 30, 2010)

Pepper means differant things to differant people, I like a nice coat of co**** black pepper, however others like a sp**** sprinkling and is barely noticeable. So if you don't include a picture, then how about an apx count eg 1-100. 1 scale in 100 is coloured?


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 30, 2010)

caustichumor said:


> Photos to show the amount of peppering would be good, I have a woma that has a couple of haphazard white scales at the moment but I am reluctant to name it a salted woma at this point ;-)


 "Snowflake woma "sounds cool...loll Although Caustic, i'm sure you'll show us some pics though!  Show him yours and maybe he'll show us his! lol


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## wokka (Jul 30, 2010)

Have we had a 'mite phase" yet .Mite phase Albino MPA


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

here is a pic of mine 






:shock: oh wait thats just s * * * on it


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 30, 2010)

wokka said:


> Have we had a 'mite phase" yet .Mite phase Albino MPA


 Not yet Wokka...lol

"Buck-shot Albino"

Along the same lines as the 'gun shot already put forward...


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

hahaha I was trying to encourage others to post pics of their paradox albino's


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## GreatSnakes (Jul 30, 2010)

How about "Freckled Albino" !!


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## Snake_Whisperer (Jul 30, 2010)

In answer to the OP's original question, "Paradox Albino" is the term used in herpetology around the world so why would you attempt to change it? It refers to a specific genetic trait found in animals in collections everywhere, all over the globe, just punch it into Google, albinos with black or other dark scales are what you come up with. It most certainly does not refer ONLY to an animal held by SXR!


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## eitak (Jul 30, 2010)

Pics!!!!!?????


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## Boney (Jul 30, 2010)

not bad over 60 odd posts from a thread asking for help to suggest a name to better discribe a animal we havent even seen a pic of yet. could we please get some pics put up as i know im hanging out to see them ..they sound great ........ my suggestion at the moment is the Invisable random black scaled Albino


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## GeckoJosh (Jul 30, 2010)

Yeah pics or it didn't happen......


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## Southside Morelia (Jul 30, 2010)

Snake_Whisperer said:


> In answer to the OP's original question, "Paradox Albino" is the term used in herpetology around the world so why would you attempt to change it?


True, I guess I got caught up in the Glitz of it all :lol:...but others have coined a name, some have stuck and others have really failed and have not caught on. I personally think that IF we (cumulative as a Hobby) are to move on and not be so anal and Politically correct...let it run its course and see what transpires..If it takes, cool, BUT always the masses will decide! Fun in anyone's language and take it as a light hearten approach!


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## Boney (Jul 30, 2010)

what about a ghost albino ?? everyone talks about ghosts ... and it doesnt look like we will see these either !!


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## AM Pythons (Jul 30, 2010)

dont get your hopes up, there want be pics, orientalis has his reasons & there fair enough, thats up to him if he wants to show them...


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## bump73 (Jul 30, 2010)

Snake_Whisperer said:


> In answer to the OP's original question, "Paradox Albino" is the term used in herpetology around the world so why would you attempt to change it? It refers to a specific genetic trait found in animals in collections everywhere, all over the globe, just punch it into Google, albinos with black or other dark scales are what you come up with. It most certainly does not refer ONLY to an animal held by SXR!


 
I agree. they are "supposedly" just paradox albinos. The "supposedly" refers to the fact that there still aren't any pics so who knows what the hell we are talking about here.

I'm still confused about the whole top secret approach in the herp community, can anyone offer a reason as to why orientalis wouldn't just post pics especially as he is asking for a descriptive name of visual trait his snake has:? 

I don't really expect an answer from orientalis as he has ignored every other request for a pic....
Ben


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## Boney (Jul 30, 2010)

Tony , i dont get it mate .... if someone starts a thread such as this asking for ideas to help name a animal that we arnt even aloud to see .. thats just crazy its only a pic of a python .its not porn he has told us hes got them . reminds me a bit of the albino childreni thread to be honest . never mind its just a pointless thread now isnt it ......without a pic .


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## Jay84 (Jul 31, 2010)

The ridiculous thing is.... pics or no pics, he has just announced he has these snakes in his possession to the whole of APS.......

why not share pics with us? I dont understand. What would be the reason to announce you have a particular 'morph' in 

your possession, but then be all secretive about pics? Its hard to name something without a visual...... is it 5 black scales?

10? 200? I am finding this thread very frustrating.


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## pythrulz (Jul 31, 2010)

call them piebald albinos seeing where not allowed to import them you can stat the aussie strand


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## AM Pythons (Jul 31, 2010)

Andy, he has his reasons, i cant make him post pics, thats up to him mate.. All i can say is 'i believe him'...its frustrating i know for the ppl that want to see them.. nothing else i can do...


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## AM Pythons (Jul 31, 2010)

Jay84 said:


> I have an albino GTP, but now that you all know i have one i can't show you pics lol


only differents is ppl have seen pics of a Australian 'paradox' albino in a Australian magazine.. you know what one looks like,these are from the same 'line' even..


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## reptileaddiction (Jul 31, 2010)

AM Pythons said:


> only differents is ppl have seen pics of a Australian 'paradox' albino in a Australian magazine.. you know what one looks like,these are from the same 'line' even..



But to warrant getting a new name they'd be different wouldn't they???


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## Jay84 (Jul 31, 2010)

If they are exactly the same as the 'paradox' albino in that magazine...... wouldnt they still be called paradox albinos? hmmmmm


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## Colin (Jul 31, 2010)

stop the sarcastic ignorant comments please or you will be infracted as well as the posts deleted..


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## Jay84 (Jul 31, 2010)

Oh 

Goes and sulks in the corner.........

'sorry'


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## Kristy_07 (Jul 31, 2010)

he he he


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## Boney (Jul 31, 2010)

sorry Colin , but whats the best way to go about this apart from not making a comment or just closing this thread .? 

the APS community was asked to help give a discriptive name for a animal we arnt allowed to see? makes things a bit harder would you not say? 


these kinds of threads have been coming up quite a bit lately . with all due respect to you Colin and the APS team . these kinds of threads come accross as a bit shady . i find the thread more to do with advertising then anything . why the name change? why no pics ?. what do we care what you call your animals ? in the future do you expect the public to buy from you because you got a fancy name ? people are going to be more then harsh about this . people are sick of been taken for a ride . extracted of loads of cash for nothing more then sour deals and broken promises . if you are telling people you got something different prove it just dont expect us to take your word . in this case i feel the owner of the animal should be trying to instill trust in people not doubt . for the future sales At least and his reputation even ...


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## Colin (Jul 31, 2010)

I expect people to post sensible comments andy and not sarcastic ones.. if someone wants to post a pic its their business. if people cant be nice and post comments without the sarcastic remarks etc maybe they should not post at all.. and I expect people to stick to the rules.. 

for example


> 1.Be nice to other members. Any name calling or general nastiness will not be tolerated - this applies for posts in the forum as well as visitor messages on profiles, messages in social groups as well as conversations in chat.





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> 5.No flooding of the forums. Posts must be meaningful and not waste the time of other site users.





> 6.Posts must remain on the topic of the thread.





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thank you.


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## Colin (Aug 1, 2010)

at the request of orientalis this thread had been moved back to the forums and re-opened..


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Colin said:


> at the request of orientalis this thread had been moved back to the forums and re-opened..



Thankyou Colin.....
Yes, as i have received emails and pm's from members advising me this went downhill and i thought i'd get back online to check out what has eventuated with it......When i did, the thread was no longer here.....

I will read and respond now.

Thanks


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Jungle_Freak said:


> What about speckled paradox albino .
> Gives a exact description of the speckled pattern over the albino morph



As this is where i'm pretty sure i left off the other day, this is where i'll start....
I pm'd Roger thanking him for the descriptive name and told him i liked it, would he want anything if we chose to use the name......


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Farma said:


> here is a pic of mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We do not keep our animals in filth.....They are maintained each and every day.......Regular observations and inspections are made and very accurate and indepth records are kept.....This enables us to remove waste almost immediately after they have solied....Nearly always finding the faeces and urates when they are still wet.....and remove them.....We use F10 and paper towel to keep their environment clean and don't let pathogens build up, with regular cleaning....soiled or not!


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## Snake_Whisperer (Aug 1, 2010)

YEh, in doing a bit more reading on the topic of "paradoxism", it seems you may be onto something completely different. As Barra said, paradoxism is more of a fluke than an inheritable trait so if yours have proven out to be inheritible, well, buddy old pal! What an exciting project you have on your hands! I think "Dalmation Darwin" is a winner.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

blakehose said:


> I agree.



We both also agree......Cheers

So far, this is the best and most accurate....pretty catchy too!
Thanks Roger


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Southside Morelia said:


> "Snowflake woma "sounds cool...loll Although Caustic, i'm sure you'll show us some pics though!  Show him yours and maybe he'll show us his! lol



Yeah.....if caustichumour shows us his woma, I'll show you 1 of mine...we all like to see pic's..


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Snake_Whisperer said:


> In answer to the OP's original question, "Paradox Albino" is the term used in herpetology around the world so why would you attempt to change it? It refers to a specific genetic trait found in animals in collections everywhere, all over the globe, just punch it into Google, albinos with black or other dark scales are what you come up with. It most certainly does not refer ONLY to an animal held by SXR!



Just too point out, we are not trying to change the meaning or the name "paradox albino".......we would both just like our animals thought of, rather than "THE" PARDOX animal that SXR has......(which is what i think of when that term is used)
Ours are the same blood, but are also very different in appearance......At a guess,(from the pictures i can RECALL seeing) of "THE" PARADOX Albino darwin has about 15 percent of it's body covered in black markings....this is my assumption only and have never seen the SXR animal personally, only from pictures on the net and in a magazine or 2.....
Our adults which exhibit these black scales are SXR produced albino's and pure variegata(F2's i believe) and in turn our adults have produced F3's, which according to other's who have purchased these F3's, are reporting that they also have black markings on their animals......not all of them and certainly not as much black as "THE Paradox" that SXR have produced.........
We understand the term paradox, but would just like to name our line of development, that's all........


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

ANTARESIA1 said:


> not bad over 60 odd posts from a thread asking for help to suggest a name to better discribe a animal we havent even seen a pic of yet. could we please get some pics put up as i know im hanging out to see them ..they sound great ........ my suggestion at the moment is the Invisable random black scaled Albino



If you re-read my original post, we have coined those two names and wanted peoples opinion about those name's.....ie...which is better.....
As i was posting that, i also thought...."maybe someone else will come up with something different", so i added that too........too see what other names could be coined.....

We have been asked for pictures by many of our mates and friends alike for the last 12 months......no-one has been sent pictures specifically showing these animals, although....all our adults are in our albums right here on APS....When we want to release the animals pictures to the public, we will.....until then, sorry...we are not ready to go that way at this time.....


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## Ramsayi (Aug 1, 2010)

If they are from SXR line then how can you name them to make out they are something different? Just curious when did you produce F3's? 

Even more curious why do you seem to be unwilling to post any pics of these animals?


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## girdheinz (Aug 1, 2010)

Hey redecentre rodents, it's clear you've forgotten who you have talked to in the past mate, especially about albinos and roughies ;-)


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## Waterrat (Aug 1, 2010)

... and GTPs Mick.


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## Kurto (Aug 1, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Even more curious why do you seem to be unwilling to post any pics of these animals?


 
Ditto....


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## CodeRed (Aug 1, 2010)

who is it today? 
redcentrerodents, rodents4sale, or orientalis?


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## bump73 (Aug 1, 2010)

As far as i'm concerned if as you have said you are working with SXR's line of paradox albino then keep the name.. Changing the name makes it look as they you are claiming that you have independently developed a totally new strain, which you haven't. Sure they may look a bit different but lets face it no 2 snakes are identical anyway...

Ben


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## Southside Morelia (Aug 1, 2010)

orientalis said:


> Yeah.....if caustichumour shows us his woma, I'll show you 1 of mine...we all like to see pic's..



My comments are tongue in cheek orientalis, no offense intended mate, i hope you didn't take it that way!!  

Everyone has their own reasons for holding back on a new morph, i know another that is doing the same.....  

have a look at my suggestions, guaranteed to grow on you, they fantastic!!! lol

I don't see why some are getting uptight, who gives a toss, we know what they are, its a bit of fun IMO.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> If they are from SXR line then how can you name them to make out they are something different? Just curious when did you produce F3's?
> 
> Even more curious why do you seem to be unwilling to post any pics of these animals?



We can name them something different, because they display different markings that in our minds, don't resemble "the Paradox" that SXR produced.......
They are something different.....they are albino darwins with black scales!
I personally produced F3's last season, from breeding a pair of F2 animals, which were produced by SXR.
The previous owners produced F3 animals in 2007 and 2008........of which, purchasers of those offspring are also confirming some specimens have black scales too......
Our adults are as followjust so you know...we have all data cards SXR supply upon purchase, aswell as the relevant documentation to prove :import / export papers, years of records, breeding results, ovulation dates, clutch sizes, days from copulation to ovulation, pre-lay to egg deposition, photo's of their actual progression, etc, etc)

The Dam history was all that SXR supplied on the relevant record sheets and business cards......
* - Male (A) "Grace", 1/12/2003*

* - Male (B) "Margaret", 8/11/2004*

* - Female (C) "Caroline", 11/11/2005 *

* - Female (100%) (D) "Margaret", 7/11/2004*

* - Female (100%) (E) "Grace", 12/11/2004*

* - Female (F) "Caroline", 8/11/2004*

_ - Female (100%) (G) "Diana", 8/11/2004 _

* - Male (H) "Diana", 29/10/2005*

_ - Male (I) "Diana", 29/10/2005_

_ - Male (J) "Caroline", 11/11/2005_

_ - Female (K) "Caroline", 11/11/2005_

_We have paired these animals this year and currently have some very good progression........Plenty more data to add to our records in the coming weeks....._


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

girdheinz said:


> Hey redecentre rodents, it's clear you've forgotten who you have talked to in the past mate, especially about albinos and roughies ;-)


 

Just as you do not know me, i have no clue who you are either......
Just because someone with the available funds contacts another advertiser with the intention of buying.........does not necessarily mean that the interested purchaser likes what he hears and does have a choice who they choose to purchase from......Whether it be Bredli, Albino's or RSP...whatever.......

So, what is it you are trying to discredit me for?
Not purchasing from you?


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> ... and GTPs Mick.



Aghh Michael......Just because we chose other people to buy off, with regard to GTP's........doesn't mean we didn't buy 3 half clutches? and some singles too?

Your point is?

What has all this got to do with naming a snake or whether or not we own them or not????
Why are you Michael even posting?
You yourself use to be on here as Craftsman.....I can recall the very night you first re-entered this APS community, PM'd you and immediately divulged my personal identity to you.....You asked me to not make that public... I have not deleted any emails or pm's....I have nothing to hide....


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## PhilK (Aug 1, 2010)

I still don't get how you can call an animal with black on it an albino...


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## driftoz (Aug 1, 2010)

PhilK said:


> I still don't get how you can call an animal with black on it an albino...


 same as im thinking but i guess if it looks like an albino and has the pinky eyes then cant see y not.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

PhilK said:


> I still don't get how you can call an animal with black on it an albino...


 
If you read definitions, they say that albinism comes in many forms, but generally an albino is defecient of melanin.......
This is where the paradox meaning comes in......."in contrast to"
So an albino with black on it is not termed an albino, it is termed a "paradox albino"

Ours do not resemble the famous SXR single Paradox albino though........


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## waruikazi (Aug 1, 2010)

...


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## Wally (Aug 1, 2010)

Controversial Albino.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> But apparently we're never gonna know!



Does everything you want come to you when you want it?

They will be publicly released when we feel the time is right......
Until that time, what ever happened to common respect and people's claims to be innocent until proven guilty?
Why are we having to defend ourselves to other's about this?

We understand everyone would like to see them, we have been waiting ourselves to see pictures of Albino Woma's and other interesting animals that apparently exist......We have no doubt there are animals around.....What's even more interesting with the albino darwins with black scalation on them......is that others have them too. Not just us, we are merely trying to decide on a name for our animals.........


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## mungus (Aug 1, 2010)

Waterrat said:


> ... and GTPs Mick.


 
Check His Album.............................


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## Waterrat (Aug 1, 2010)

mungus said:


> Check His Album.............................


 

All I see is one bredli and lots of pine trees. ???? Oh, there are some pics of albinos. So?


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## cement (Aug 1, 2010)

orientalis said:


> Does everything you want come to you when you want it?
> 
> what ever happened to common respect
> 
> ........



I can help you with this mate, it went out the door when all those "keeping up with the Jones'" started breeding and introduced the spoilt brat gene, ........"i want photos, i want photos".
My interest in human psychology has given me some real good laughs with this thread!


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## frogboy77 (Aug 1, 2010)

show us some pics


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## Kristy_07 (Aug 1, 2010)

orientalis said:


> They will be publicly released when we feel the time is right......
> Until that time, what ever happened to common respect and people's claims to be innocent until proven guilty?
> Why are we having to defend ourselves to other's about this?



I think the answer to this is that you have started a thread asking for people's opinions about a name for a visually aesthetic trait in these animals. It's fair to assume that you knew this would spark peoples' interest, a great deal of interest, even. I'm sure it was also foreseeable that not providing pics of the animals would be frustrating. 

Of course, you are entitled to keeping the pics to yourself, and releasing them at your discretion. But, come on. You started the thread, asked for people's opinions, stirred the pot by not providing pics, and then asked to have the thread reopened after mods shut it down because of gnarky criticism. If people were frustrated before, were there going to be less frustrated the second-time round? 

I would love to see pics. I also respect the fact that you're not going to provide them, and I completely understand and respect your reasons for doing so. I agree with you. But, having been given plenty of appropriate comments regarding possible names for the line, I can't understand why you would reopen the thread and yourself to further criticism, and then claim you don't understand why people are upset.


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## junglepython2 (Aug 1, 2010)

Orientalis, have any of your paradox's come from alb to alb matings or always het to alb?


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## waruikazi (Aug 1, 2010)

I honestly don't care if you never post up any pics. I just don't understand why people would publicly announce that they have something then refuse to post up pictures. 

I shouldn't have bothered with my last post, hence why i edited it. You are just being an attention seeking troll and quite efffectively advertising that you have animals that you think everyone should buy off you without buying a subscription to advertise.



orientalis said:


> Does everything you want come to you when you want it?
> 
> They will be publicly released when we feel the time is right......
> Until that time, what ever happened to common respect and people's claims to be innocent until proven guilty?
> ...


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## Laghairt (Aug 1, 2010)

waruikazi said:


> You are just being an attention seeking troll and quite efffectively advertising that you have animals that you think everyone should buy off you without buying a subscription to advertise.


 
What I (and I'm sure many others) have been thinking all along.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

Kristy_07 said:


> I think the answer to this is that you have started a thread asking for people's opinions about a name for a visually aesthetic trait in these animals. It's fair to assume that you knew this would spark peoples' interest, a great deal of interest, even. I'm sure it was also foreseeable that not providing pics of the animals would be frustrating.
> 
> Of course, you are entitled to keeping the pics to yourself, and releasing them at your discretion. But, come on. You started the thread, asked for people's opinions, stirred the pot by not providing pics, and then asked to have the thread reopened after mods shut it down because of gnarky criticism. If people were frustrated before, were there going to be less frustrated the second-time round?
> 
> I would love to see pics. I also respect the fact that you're not going to provide them, and I completely understand and respect your reasons for doing so. I agree with you. But, having been given plenty of appropriate comments regarding possible names for the line, I can't understand why you would reopen the thread and yourself to further criticism, and then claim you don't understand why people are upset.



To answer briefly.....We have not been on for a day or two and had no idea the thread was closed and or removed until today when i got emails and a phonecall from APS members.........So, when i came back on to read what had happened, the thread was gone....when i questiond the moderator what happened, the mod informed me that it would need to be re-opened if we wanted to read it........Once reading the posts, we thought to reasonably reply, answering questions and defending ourselves to some nasty attacks.....
We have high morals and ethics, ask anyone who has purchased from us or from whom we have purchased from... We are always willing to provide unquestionable references, from within business or this hobby....whether we know each other personally or only via email / phone.......

Please, this thread should get back on topic.....if you do not have any names to contribute, then please pm us......or for those of you who have our contact numbers or email address, get in touch.

Thankyou for the input, we apologise for not showing everyone at this time.....But that's the way it is for now.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

junglepython2 said:


> Orientalis, have any of your paradox's come from alb to alb matings or always het to alb?



Yes, both albino and albino / het pairings.....

Isn't it egg-citing?


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## kupper (Aug 1, 2010)

is the reason your not showing us photos is your expecting a paradox to pop up from the pairings this year and actually dont have one yet?

if so why didnt you just say so and avoid 8 pages of criticism ?


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

1.Does anyone else who frequents this site own Albino Darwin Carpet's with various BLACK Markings on their animals????

This was asked because i know several other keepers who do......And was trying to find out how many more there were out there!

As i typed the 2 questions i originally wanted answers too, i also thought that maybe other brains would think up other names..........end of story......

Later, when a member wanted to know (barramundi i think) if it was true that indeed we had them, this is when i confimed it......It was not my intention to spark interest and there were many people who called me, pm'd or emailed us regarding this thread........we have not responded to anyone's plea to get intouch with them or try to communicate about selling any offspring, give them pricing or what have you from this thread.............so... sorry...not that way inclined....you are not reading the original post......


This got way off topic from people's assumptions and doubts......Either way, we are not the only one's with them......other's have them too.......Are they showing you their's???


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2010)

kupper said:


> is the reason your not showing us photos is your expecting a paradox to pop up from the pairings this year and actually dont have one yet?
> 
> if so why didnt you just say so and avoid 8 pages of criticism ?



I think Kupper nailed it


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## jinjajoe (Aug 1, 2010)

Naming invisible animals is very difficult especially as you are asking them to be named based on appearance...... make them appear & then you might get some suitable names if not then a completely pointless thread. 

That is not an attack just a fact.


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## orientalis (Aug 1, 2010)

No,

We have 4 albino darwin adults that have black scales on them.
They have produced offspring with black scales on them already before and they most likely will again.

The term used when an albino has black on them is "paradox albino", but as our do not resemble THE paradox albino that has been published on the net and in a magazine or 2, we have named ours something different.....

We won't be going into anymore reasons about why we are not releasing pic's.....we have not yet for 12 months so far, beside the many requests......

What, is it that hard to believe that they exist?........

We are not trying to make anyone believe we have them, we have them...like it or not, they are ours...When we want to share, we will.....


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## junglepython2 (Aug 1, 2010)

kupper said:


> is the reason your not showing us photos is your expecting a paradox to pop up from the pairings this year and actually dont have one yet?
> 
> if so why didnt you just say so and avoid 8 pages of criticism ?


 
How could you expect a paradox that hasn't been proven genetically to pop up if you don't have any to start with??


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## Colin (Aug 1, 2010)

orientalis I re-opened this thread on your request.. the BEST way to answer your critics is to post up some pics of your own paradox's.. this is your choice and if you dont want to thats up to you and your business.. but if your not prepared to do this this thread really is going nowhere but downhill again.. and Im inclined to re-close it and remove it again. 

so how about showing us what you've got please? it will definitely go a long way to re-establish credability with your knockers on here.. 

Im interested to see as well.. and if you wont post up on the forum how about linking me to your pics or emailing me some? and I will then be able to say to the members I saw some.. and I give my word I will not show them around etc.. Is that an option? 

Im also interested to know if you actually have any animals that have come directly from "Destiny" the paradox albino (ie: her direct offspring)? thanks.


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## Jason (Aug 1, 2010)

my albino has different pattern, different amount of pattern, and slightly different color, when compared to BLONDIE (the orig. albino)... does that mean i should call mine something other then albino? while it would appear im having a shot... im not. im just trying to convey a point of opinion.
to name it something else would be ok, however it would be like the RPM story. everyone calls them RPMs online but when you talk to people in person everyone calls them jags... cause thats what they are. you can sell me a 'black spotted albino', 'dalmation albino' etc, but if/when i breed/sell them, id just call them paradox albino... thats what they are. i think people would regard the move as silly and that would reflect on the person whom named them.... this thread shows that VERY clearly!

best of luck with the project. call them what you like, ill still be waiting in line if they prove out!


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