# Disgust for Petshops.



## Scag (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi, i went into an aquarium today in parramatta which sold scorpions and T's in there own little enclosures, they were using bark chips as a substrate for the T's, for the Yashenkoi substrate the used about 2mm of desert sand, they also used black sand for the manicas. the water bowls had no water just a HUGE ball of cotton wool. All these where also housed unter bright fluro lights. Anyway im disgusted post all your pet shop hate here.

Thanks.


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## liberty (Oct 5, 2007)

this i my first post on here and all i can say is be educated about the species before u get on a public forum and have a go at people about what u have seen.


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Oct 5, 2007)

i know that pet shop dont worry they know nothing 
in merrylands i went to the petshop (my baby needed dog treats) and looking at vthe small maltese puppies one had a completley matted bum which included poo and it was all just disgusting. some pet shops are ok but most are just about business. u should hear some of the stuff they tell buyer its all bullcrap then i get these puppies in our vet clinic and for puppy preschool and they dont know anything about a puppy or dog


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## fuegan13 (Oct 5, 2007)

i thought some scorps you were meant to put moist cotton wool in for them because they dont drink standing water ? (correct if im wrong ive never kept them)


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## liberty (Oct 5, 2007)

thats exactly right so why bag them out if u dont know anything about the species, didnt any one learn anything from that last b/s thread where people made aquastions that were unfounded.


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Oct 5, 2007)

this pet shops cotton wool is usually quite dried out


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## DiamondAsh (Oct 5, 2007)

*2mm of desert sand would be standard practice in a pet shop for a Scorp. They don't want them to burrow, otherwise who would but something they are probably hardly going to see once it's home. I certainly don't agree with it, but understand why they would keep them in conditions like that. The cotton ball and water, now that's just mis-imformation I've even seen in books and I'd point it out the the shop owner. I agree if they are going to sell a certain species they should at least have some basic husbandry details right in the display tank.*


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## liberty (Oct 5, 2007)

cotton wool dampened is a very standard practice for scorps

lets all bag some one elses techniques because we dont or havent kept that species before. reading information in a book is no substute for the actuall experince of keeping a species watching it grow and reproduce and living well and healthy.


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## fuegan13 (Oct 5, 2007)

DiamondAsh said:


> *2mm of desert sand would be standard practice in a pet shop for a Scorp. They don't want them to burrow, otherwise who would but something they are probably hardly going to see once it's home. I certainly don't agree with it, but understand why they would keep them in conditions like that. The cotton ball and water, now that's just mis-imformation I've even seen in books and I'd point it out the the shop owner. I agree if they are going to sell a certain species they should at least have some basic husbandry details right in the display tank.*



sorry to hijack this thread a lil bit, but just to clarify scorps dont use the cotton wool and should have a water bowl ??? is that what you saying ?? only reason i ask is i wanan get some eventually and id like to keep them correctly...


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## DiamondAsh (Oct 5, 2007)

fuegan13 said:


> i thought some scorps you were meant to put moist cotton wool in for them because they dont drink standing water ? (correct if im wrong ive never kept them)



*Not unless you're trying to create a humid enviroment for the species. yaschenkoi certainly doesn't need a moist environment as water will be gained from the food and from the substrate if kept properly.*


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## fuegan13 (Oct 5, 2007)

DiamondAsh said:


> *Not unless you're trying to create a humid enviroment for the species. yaschenkoi certainly doesn't need a moist environment as water will be gained from the food and from the substrate if kept properly.*



cool cool. thanks for that info


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Oct 5, 2007)

liberty pull ur head in plz we r just saying the way that SOME pet shops keep there animals are inhumane. and ur telling us not to abuse people before we know the facts take ur own advise how do u know that i have never keep scorps.
fyi i have kept scorps quite successfully!


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## DiamondAsh (Oct 5, 2007)

liberty said:


> cotton wool dampened is a very standard practice for scorps
> 
> lets all bag some one elses techniques because we dont or havent kept that species before. reading information in a book is no substute for the actuall experince of keeping a species watching it grow and reproduce and living well and healthy.




*I'm not quoting my experiance from a book, I'm quoting most books as being plain wrong. Half the websites I've visited on the subject are also wrong. I am currently keeping scorpions and am in daily contact with much more experianced owers than myself.*



fuegan13 said:


> sorry to hijack this thread a lil bit, but just to clarify scorps dont use the cotton wool and should have a water bowl ??? is that what you saying ?? only reason i ask is i wanan get some eventually and id like to keep them correctly...




*Most Scorpions take their water up through osmosis ?(sp). They don't simplt go down to the water hole to drink.*


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## HoffOff (Oct 5, 2007)

Let's Not fight Ok?


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Oct 5, 2007)

lol not trying to fight just protecting honour


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## GAZ-ROBOT (Oct 5, 2007)

I don't no anything about scorps! but using bark chips as a substrate for the T's is'ent the best thing, especially when the T's having a molt and bright fluro lights are no go's with T's to......
and liberty chill man......


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## coxy (Oct 5, 2007)

Spikie wanna cricket said:


> in merrylands i went to the petshop


And its a rip off i was there today, had to get some flakes for my tropicals and they wanted to charge me twice what i usually pay at the aquarium i go to in blacktown, i just couldnt get out there today.


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## Spikie wanna cricket (Oct 5, 2007)

i know it is ridiculous lol i am just up the road from them at work in the vets it is funni what buyers pay for their stuff


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## HoffOff (Oct 5, 2007)

Good enough lol


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## coxy (Oct 5, 2007)

Spikie wanna cricket said:


> i know it is ridiculous lol i am just up the road from them at work in the vets it is funni what buyers pay for their stuff


is that alan's practice by any chance???? sorry to go off topic, its just i know him lol.


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## Veredus (Oct 5, 2007)

liberty said:


> thread where people made *aquastions* that were unfounded.


 
Is that a clever little pun thrown in there because people are talking about water bowls or just a lucky mistake :lol:


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## PhilK (Oct 5, 2007)

liberty said:


> this i my first post on here and all i can say is be educated about the species before u get on a public forum and have a go at people about what u have seen.


Actually liberty, I hate to pull you off your high-horse here, but this person who started the thread _does_ know that T's aren't meant to be housed on bark chips, scorps are meant to have deep substrate, scorps are _not_ meant to have cotton-wool in their water (as it harbors mould and fungi). T's and scorps are both not meant to be under bright fluro lights either... So that's that settled. It seems to be you that needs to 'be educated about the species'.

Futhermore, yes pet-shops do crappy stuff to their scorps and Ts... But that's because they're on display. If they gave them the proper husbandry requirements, both the Ts and the scorps would burrow and never be seen. Why would someone buy something they can't even see? They also overprice things like crazy because if they didn't, their business wouldn't thrive.

It's not a good thing, but it is the reason, I think


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## pythonmum (Oct 5, 2007)

*Pick your pet shops and avoid the bad ones!*

There are 3 pet shops in my area, 2 of which are in a mall and are staffed by well-meaning, but largely uneducated juniors. I'd never buy an animal or supplies in them. The third shop is run by people who breed dogs and herps and have extensive backgrounds in animal husbandry and vet nursing. They give great advice, keep their animals very healthy and carry an amazing range of supplies. Stick to shops like that one and you won't have to be frustrated!


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## OzRocks (Oct 5, 2007)

hey guys thought i might shed some light on the topic, cos I work at a petshop and we keep scorps, bird eaters and centipedes.

now the reason wool is put in water bowls is scorpions dont drink from open water, espescially from a water bowl that they might fall in to, and besides, they should hardly ever drink from the bowl wool or not because the substrate should be damp enough that they can gain moisture from it.

for the 2mm of substrate, we use about 2-3cm. this is because as stated we dont want them to burrow, and then reck their burrow when we wnat to show them to people. so we place pieces of cork, flat rock or hide rocks in their so they have a burrow that we can still access.

and for the substrate, a variety of substrates can be used, because scorpions live in varied environments, but what we find best is coco-peat or peat-moss. this holds moisture, allows heat to pass thru from the heat mat, and the scorpion can 'dig' thru it

we try and have the best conditions for our animals, and also give the best advice. So I hope this thread just doesnt give the impressions that all pet shops are just un-educated money hungry people

cheers, Matt


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## PhilK (Oct 5, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> hey guys thought i might shed some light on the topic, cos I work at a petshop and we keep scorps, bird eaters and centipedes.
> 
> now the reason wool is put in water bowls is scorpions dont drink from open water, espescially from a water bowl that they might fall in to, and besides, they should hardly ever drink from the bowl wool or not because the substrate should be damp enough that they can gain moisture from it.
> 
> ...


 
If the scorp doesn't drink from the wool, there is no advantage to having it in there. It's just a breeding ground for nasties.

As for substrates, you should always try to find out what substrate that scorp lived on naturally. I've seen _yaschenkoi_'s housed on moist peat, and rainforest scorps on sand!

The heat mat should _not_ be on the floor of the enclosure. When scorps get too hot, they burrow down to _escape_ heat. If the heat mat is there, they'll just get hotter and hotter and cook themselves.

Just some friendly advice As for pet-shops being money hungry businesses... They _are_. Every business is money hungry.. they have to be! You think it actually costs $120 bucks to euthanase a dog? Hell no it doesn't. That surcharge goes to feeding hospitalised animals, staff wages etc etc... People must understand that petshops are businesses, and so cannot provide 100% of the care the scorps etc deserve. They give them the bare minimum til they're bought and a new owner can give them the full deal.


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## Scag (Oct 5, 2007)

I have never kept scorps before so i am going by what i have read, i DO keep T's though and know how to keep them. And THANKYOU PhilK for defending me. Also they used Blakc sand for the rainforest sp whick cannot hold moisture and the cotton wool did not appear to be wet at all.

Thanks.


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm disgusted with the fact that pet shops sell stuff to make money!

They should be doing for the love of animals.... and people. All the animals and products should be free! Except all the people who are using the product for wildlife care, they should pay.... maybe even subsadise the cost for everyone else.

You all disgust me!


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2007)

Scag said:


> I have never kept scorps before so i am going by what i have read, i DO keep T's though and know how to keep them. And THANKYOU PhilK for defending me. Also they used Blakc sand for the rainforest sp whick cannot hold moisture and the cotton wool did not appear to be wet at all.
> 
> Thanks.



I think everyone needs to hold onto their moisture!


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## OzRocks (Oct 5, 2007)

PhilK said:


> If the scorp doesn't drink from the wool, there is no advantage to having it in there. It's just a breeding ground for nasties.
> 
> As for substrates, you should always try to find out what substrate that scorp lived on naturally. I've seen _yaschenkoi_'s housed on moist peat, and rainforest scorps on sand!
> 
> The heat mat should _not_ be on the floor of the enclosure. When scorps get too hot, they burrow down to _escape_ heat. If the heat mat is there, they'll just get hotter and hotter and cook themselves.




we still provide the water bowl just in case, jst they hardly ever use it. and to prevent bacteria building up the wool is often changed,
for the substrate we do find out what the scorps require for their specific needs, like i said they live in many different environments,
and for the heat mat, its not actually in the tank but below the bottom, and they have enough room and hiding spots to keep cool and burrow at the same time.

and I guess your right when it comes to bein money hungry.....or else we would go out of business!!!

cheers, Matt


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## OzRocks (Oct 5, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> I'm disgusted with the fact that pet shops sell stuff to make money!
> 
> They should be doing for the love of animals.... and people. All the animals and products should be free! Except all the people who are using the product for wildlife care, they should pay.... maybe even subsadise the cost for everyone else.
> 
> You all disgust me!



even the products?


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## waruikazi (Oct 5, 2007)

OzRocks said:


> even the products?



Even the products! Unless it is hair product.


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## OzRocks (Oct 5, 2007)

waruikazi said:


> Even the products! Unless it is hair product.



alright I'll ask my boss and see what he says, I don' think it will go down to well tho

and yeah we cant get rid of the hair products, some must be sacrificed!!


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## liberty (Oct 5, 2007)

well i think that it just goes to show that any species can be kept healthly and live well under a variety of differnent conditions and husbandary techniqies. 
I as im sure many of u are, are sick of people bagging others ways, i guess i did that in a way but i mean we are all here to learn different techniqes in husbandary, 

cheers


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## PhilK (Oct 5, 2007)

You call keeping a burrow dwelling scorpion on 2cm of soil a 'technique of husbandry' I call it a terrible mistake of husbandry.

I can only hope the only reason they do it is for display purposes


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