# vegetarians and vegans



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

I would like to know who on this site is also a vego or a vegan??


----------



## CrystalMoon (May 30, 2011)

Not me... I luvvv my meat
but it is a growing way of life


----------



## redlittlejim (May 30, 2011)

i eat only meat that has only been a vego.


----------



## killimike (May 30, 2011)

redlittlejim said:


> i eat only meat that has only been a vego.


 
Carnivores taste funny. That's why people shouldn't eat me


----------



## junglepython2 (May 30, 2011)

I think Australis is.


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

im a vegetarian =] and i eat free range eggs and rennet free cheese. Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.


----------



## Crystal..Discus (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> im a vegetarian =] and i eat free range eggs and rennet free cheese. Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.


 
Please don't start this argument. It's been proven time after time that it wouldn't be a possibility. 

I have a few vegetarian friends. I have yet to meet a vegan who wasn't bat **** crazy.


----------



## killimike (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> im a vegetarian =] and i eat free range eggs and rennet free cheese. Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.


 
I don't mock being veggo, but the second idea is a tad naive. If everyone didn't want to make money and helped everyone else, almost all the world would be fed most of the time, whether we were veggo or not.


----------



## Pinoy (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> im a vegetarian =] Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.



But then we'd have to kill all the animals growing in numbers that we would have to compete with for food, so we may as well eat them 

I'm not a vego, but do enjoy a good vego meal here and there


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

Crystal..Discus said:


> I have a few vegetarian friends. I have yet to meet a vegan who wasn't bat **** crazy.


 I have a friend who just converted to veganism. I swear he turned nuts virtually overnight as soon as he changed


----------



## Defective (May 30, 2011)

i tried it, and after a day of no meat i had withdrawals!!!!! must eat cow,lamb,veal yummmmmmm sorry. the healthy eating board dictator i mean director is vegan and is trying to force meat out of a Hospital's menu and make everyone believe her ways....


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

im actually doing food and agricultural science and all of my professors have said the same =] 70% of our grain supplies go towards feeding cattle, and its because of newly 'developed' countries like China getting rich and feeling that they need to now eat the rich food (meat) that there is an added strain on food supplies.


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> im actually doing food and agricultural science and all of my professors have said the same =] 70% of our grain supplies go towards feeding cattle, and its because of newly 'developed' countries like China getting rich and feeling that they need to now eat the rich food (meat) that there is an added strain on food supplies.


 I have heard this before and it seems feasible. Not sure if it really is true but yeah.
Maybe we should go back to like it was before agriculture and only eat what we can catch


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

saximus said:


> I have heard this before and it seems feasible. Not sure if it really is true but yeah.
> Maybe we should go back to like it was before agriculture and only eat what we can catch


 
i think that is a great idea =] lets see people eat lambs when they have to slaughter them themselves...


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

Perhaps we could put and end to meat farming, let the ones on the land die after a
happy life, ensure no breeding and let them exist only in their natural environments.
Do their natural environments still offer a home for them?


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

I'm not sure wild versions of meat animals would even exist in many places. They've been selectively bred for a very long time now.
Hey did we all just hijack this thread? What was the OP trying to get at?


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

they could be pets =] i dont think they do... i know there are wild chickens and pigs?


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

I don't eat my friends  I love all animals. I don't care if people eat meat but no one cares for the well being of the animals...not many people know how they are treated and how they are killed in slaughterhouses...

that doesn't make sense...pretty sure i'm not crazy...


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

did you watch the ABC tonight? it was about our live exports to indonesia and how they are killing them... dismembering them while they are still alive =S i had work so i missed it...

anyone watch it?


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

I think you're right to some extent but there are laws in place and, in Australia and England especially, I think we have much higher standards for the welfare of the animals during their lives and their deaths


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

i watched it and it was harrowing.makes me sick. it's pathetic how they allow those animals to be transported in such SICK and poor conditions. They freak out....aren't fed ..they all get sick...have a **** life only to be shipped out to a ****ty country then they are slaughtered..and they take atleast 4 to 5 mins to bleed out while still alive...their necks cut with blunt knives


----------



## Crystal..Discus (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> i think that is a great idea =] lets see people eat lambs when they have to slaughter them themselves...


 
Quiet frankly we're all a bit soft, and if people were made to kill the meat they ate, there'd be a little more appreciation for red meat. The moment everything collapses, it'll be a real test. Vegetarians/Vegans won't have access to everything they need to stay healthy enough to survive, and people who identify themselves as "carnivores" should cease to function. 

Apart from Victoria, Australia has the most humane practices regarding slaughter houses, so I'll continue to support my local butcher.


----------



## Pinoy (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> i think that is a great idea =] lets see people eat lambs when they have to slaughter them themselves...



I've done it many times from a young age. Even helped raise pigs I had to kill. Just have to make sure you can draw the line between pet and food.
If you wanted to eat it, it wasn't going to put itself on your plate where I was at the time.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

that's funny - i don't eat anything to do with animals and i'm healthy. People say humans 'NEED' meat. Well no you don't...you may want to eat it but you don't need it. I am alive and healthy.


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> i watched it and it was harrowing.makes me sick. it's pathetic how they allow those animals to be transported in such SICK and poor conditions. They freak out....aren't fed ..they all get sick...have a **** life only to be shipped out to a ****ty country then they are slaughtered..and they take atleast 4 to 5 mins to bleed out while still alive...their necks cut with blunt knives


 
yeah they've improved the shipping conditions considerable, still not perfect but 10000 times better then what they were. Its really how our Australian animals are being slaughtered thats the problem... didnt get to see it but i heard on the radio that they were dismembering them while they were still alive? 

there is something wrong with people who can do that... the majority of Asia also thinks its cute to seal tiny turtles in keyrings and let them starve to death.


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

That's not what she's saying. The only reason you can be a vegetarian and be healthy is because you live in a privileged society with access to all of these things. If you want another perspective of this ask Gordo (Waruikazi). I've seen him talking about the community that he lives in and the fact that people couldn't survive there as vegos


----------



## Bradchip (May 30, 2011)

One of my friends is on an (almost) vegan diet. She's an amazing cook too, and I'd be happy to eat whatever she'd dish up everyday, and I really don't think I'd miss meat at all.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

Why not? i eat alot of fruit and veges? not everything you eat contains meat...


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

i only usually eat fresh food. Very rarely do i eat any substitutes (only when im lazy) and i take no supplements and yet my iron levels are above average? im completely healthy


----------



## BurtonReptiles (May 30, 2011)

i respect vegan and vego people because they stand there grounds and change there life for something that they love, personally my self im not vego or vegan. But people just sit back and let the slaughter of thousands animals everyday and turn a blind eye to it, it sad and make me sick to see the way people treat there food. Meat is wasted and thrown away so much , 40% of australian meat on shelves gets thrown out or goes to waste. If we didnt over slaughter animals just to make money non this would happen, i totally understand why people choose this life style. so all you people that just think it a joke maybe you should ask your self how much you care about animals ? or do you just want turn blind eye to everything happens.


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> that's funny - i don't eat anything to do with animals and i'm healthy. People say humans 'NEED' meat. Well no you don't...you may want to eat it but you don't need it. I am alive and healthy.


 
Do you propose everyone adopts your ideals and give up meat?


----------



## SarahFH (May 30, 2011)

I'm a vegetarian, but i'm not the soapbox kind


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

I appreciate the people who care. thank you

i am simply a vego because i love animals...

ANIMALS DON'T HAVE A VOICE.they can't say no..they have NO SAY. Pretty much bred for humans to eat. Yeah great life...
I don't shove my beliefs down people's throats ..i just wanted to know who was a vego/vegan



Darlyn said:


> Do you propose everyone adopts your ideals and give up meat?


 
Oh geez..Yes that exactly what i'm saying. NO. as i said i was simply asking who was vegan/vego. Then other people started with this topic.


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Do you propose everyone adopts your ideals and give up meat?


 
in a perfect world...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

i'm sick of people being rude and thinking i'm shoving my beliefs down their throats. I don't tell people to NOT EAT MEAT...i simply like to talk about this topic and see what other people think. If you are going to be rude please go away. Because animals mean alot to me and i get revvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvved up on the topic


----------



## Crystal..Discus (May 30, 2011)

You keep contradicting yourself...

This always ends the same, no matter the intention of the OP. Soapboxes come out, and people get accused of being heartless. 

I'm out. Too much BS to come.


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

That's fair enough and I can respect your right to make that choice (you sound like one of the good ones ). I've got heaps of friends who are but I'm not gonna do it any time soon. Having said that, I've reduced my meat consumption a lot lately purely because of how expensive it is


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

laters

People should watch a dvd called 'earthlings' ..give it a go haha


----------



## Defective (May 30, 2011)

my cousin, isn't a vego but he's very much a lentals man...plus he lives with an indian dude who i call ' curry in a hurry'


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

saximus said:


> That's fair enough and I can respect your right to make that choice (you sound like one of the good ones ). I've got heaps of friends who are but I'm not gonna do it any time soon. Having said that, I've reduced my meat consumption a lot lately purely because of how expensive it is


 
being a vego is getting expensive as well =/ i live off broccoli and cauliflower which is like gold at the moment...


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

I've seen it but like it has been said we have much better standards in this country.
What do you guys use to replace the vitamins and minerals that most of us get from meat?


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

jazzv said:


> being a vego is getting expensive as well =/ i live off broccoli and cauliflower which is like gold at the moment...


 
haha i know what you mean. so expensive! i wanted a banana..but um 13 bucks a kilo...no thanks!


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> i'm sick of people being rude and thinking i'm shoving my beliefs down their throats. I don't tell people to NOT EAT MEAT...i simply like to talk about this topic and see what other people think. If you are going to be rude please go away. Because animals mean alot to me and i get revvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvved up on the topic



Are you refering to me when you say people being rude? Or are you saying anyone who disagrees with you is being rude?
You are getting other opinions ( what they think) and you're getting revvvved up.
Sorry I'm confused


----------



## vampstorso (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Do you propose everyone adopts your ideals and give up meat?


 
Ive been vego for just over half my life, and even I agree with what you're saying here! (that people don't have to agree!)

I didn't read the whole thread, so I'm not taking sides with anyone, but this is my 2cents worth;


To force the belief that eating meat is wrong on somebody, is just as bad as forcing the fact that it's right on someone. Either way someones beliefs are being ignored.

Eating meat in itself is not unethical, it depends on the source and the individuals appreciation for the animal.
Animals are naturally eaten by others, that's what trophic levels are all about...
It's just a matter of how that occurs, and if there's respect for that animals life.

That's the only difference to me, when it comes to humans eating meat vs other animals...
if we inhumanely confine and harm the animals we eat, or have no appreciation for the fact that they were once alive and hence knowingly mistreat them (a lion doesn't happily abuse their prey)

My Nana always says; cows won't go extinct as long as we're eating them.


so my point is, both arguments are flawed depending on the situation your arguments refer too.
I agree it's annoying as a vegetarian when you're told you're unhealthy without meat, but I think vego's give a lot more crap to meat eaters than they realize. 

I also find generally the pushiest vegetarians, haven't been a vego for very long...that annoys me more than anything a meat eater could ever say.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

i do take an iron supplement sometimes but my doctor said my iron levels were fine when i had a blood test. and you get so many more vitamins etc from fruit and veges


----------



## vampstorso (May 30, 2011)

saximus said:


> I've seen it but like it has been said we have much better standards in this country.
> What do you guys use to replace the vitamins and minerals that most of us get from meat?


 
i just have to say...nothing 

When I was a kid I was always taken to be tested for nutrition problems as my parents assumed I'd have them...I never had a single one, not an iron problem or anything...

It's not a lifestyle that's for everyone, but it works for me...and unless you're a picky vegetarian who doesn't like meat or vegetables, you should be fine without vitamins 
(sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go Sax! just trying to explain but having trouble phrasing it!)


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Are you refering to me when you say people being rude? Or are you saying anyone who disagrees with you is being rude?
> You are getting other opinions ( what they think) and you're getting revvvved up.
> Sorry I'm confused


 
straight away you thought i was shoving my beliefs down your throat. you took it the wrong way. not what i was doing.


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

Haha nah Casey I know you'd never have a go at little old me 
I'm always interested to hear from veges (maybe I'm just fascinated by different lifestyles) but don't like the Nazis. You guys don't seem to fit into that category though


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> i just have to say...nothing
> 
> When I was a kid I was always taken to be tested for nutrition problems as my parents assumed I'd have them...I never had a single one, not an iron problem or anything...
> 
> ...


 
haha a picky vego that does eat meat?? =]

yeah im the same... my parents thought id have nutritional problems but im completely fine =] as long as you go fresh and dont stick to the substitutes. Although i do love chicken style nuggets!


----------



## vampstorso (May 30, 2011)

haha woooh! Ill take that as you having faith in me 


I was vegan for little over 2 years...I was still fine vitamin wise, but no matter how much I ate, I was loosing significant weight to the point where my family was rather terrified. as a vegetarian i've never once felt I'm missing out on anything, but as a vegan I began to feel left out in life.


when it comes to the being Vegetarian is better than eating Meat debate (or vice versa) one of my friends makes a great point; If being a vegetarian was significantly better for you, you can guarantee the army would enforce it, and they don't.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

All living beings love their life, desire pleasures, and are averse to pain...they dislike any injury to themselves.. everybody is desirous of life, and to every living being, his own life is very dear  wish people would care about animals feelings a little more..



vampstorso said:


> haha woooh! Ill take that as you having faith in me
> 
> 
> I was vegan for little over 2 years...I was still fine vitamin wise, but no matter how much I ate, I was loosing significant weight to the point where my family was rather terrified. as a vegetarian i've never once felt I'm missing out on anything, but as a vegan I began to feel left out in life.
> ...


 
the army? they don't study food or health or anything like that? what would they know???


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> straight away you thought i was shoving my beliefs down your throat. you took it the wrong way. not what i was doing.


 
Well you have started a public forum regarding your beliefs so.....
But I still wonder what your solution to stopping humans eating meat is. What do we do with existing livestock if everyone
takes up the cause?


----------



## vampstorso (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> All living beings love their life, desire pleasures, and are averse to pain...they dislike any injury to themselves.. everybody is desirous of life, and to every living being, his own life is very dear  wish people would care about animals feelings a little more..
> 
> 
> 
> the army? they don't study food or health or anything like that? what would they know???


 
are you kidding?!
they are extremely interested in both!!!


----------



## saximus (May 30, 2011)

They need their soldiers to be as healthy as possible so they do a lot of study. I assume that's what it means


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

i actually did a review on a paper about monkeys who were fed a meat based diet and others who were fed a soy and fresh vegetable diet and the study showed (significantly) that the monkeys that were fed the soy diet had far more ovarian follicles then those fed the meat diet. So really the vegos are going to go into menopause later, which is an increase in fertility. (if monkeys are an accurate model of humans). 

So i think this shows that (in some ways) we are definitely healthier

i just thought it was really interesting =]


----------



## vampstorso (May 30, 2011)

lol.

this is why,
people don't like vegetarians,
you can't reason with so many of them.
it's so very "I feel this, and therefore it must be true"


(not aimed at you Jazz, that's research, and hence is what I was complaining people don't do!)


----------



## Red-Ink (May 30, 2011)

I must say... I have no problem with either way of life.

I grew up in SE Asia, I met what i usually had for dinner. In most cases I gave the bugger breakfast. Living like this for the first half of my life has given me an appreciation on the life I'm about to take and actually thankfull to the scarifice it has made to feed me and keep me alive.

I have had discussions with the wife about this and I have always found it odd that people that grew up here like her can't watch or even think about where the red slab of flesh under the cling wrap cover came from...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Well you have started a public forum rearding your beliefs so.....
> But I still wonder what your solution to stopping humans eating meat is. What do we do with existing livestock if everyone
> takes up the cause?


 
oh please stop - i asked who was vego or vegan...everyone else starting having a convo so i joined in and then gave my opinion. I DID NOT say i was coming on here to tell people to stop eating meat or that i was thinking of a way to change all of this. I'm happy enough being a vego..makes me happy and feel better.



vampstorso said:


> lol.
> 
> this is why,
> people don't like vegetarians,
> ...


 
people will always have their opinions. whether it's about religion etc....it's not a matter of people disliking vego's..if you are a vego obviously you stand for what u believe in and take it seriously so you stand up for animals and being a vego ill always have people saying negative things...


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> lol.
> 
> this is why,
> people don't like vegetarians,
> ...


 
yeah i dont go around preaching but if someone brings the issue up with me then i do stand by what i believe in. A lot of the time its the meat eaters that start it as well =/ by mocking and making jokes about something that a lot of people feel really strongly about. There asking for the back lash...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

ah i like you jazzv


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

beardielove said:


> oh please stop - i asked who was vego or vegan...everyone else starting having a convo so i joined in and then gave my opinion. I DID NOT say i was coming on here to tell people to stop eating meat or that i was thinking of a way to change all of this. I'm happy enough being a vego..makes me happy and feel better.
> .



Not vego


Did you already guess that?


----------



## Jazzz (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Not vego
> 
> 
> Did you already guess that?


 
i had this strange feeling you werent...

call it intuition


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Not vego
> 
> 
> Did you already guess that?


 
...........................


----------



## BurtonReptiles (May 30, 2011)

once again every school kid comes out with childish remark , sometime i really wonder how old most people are on this forum.


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> once again every school kid comes out with childish remark , sometime i really wonder how old most people are on this forum.



Who are you referring too?


----------



## BurtonReptiles (May 30, 2011)

Darlyn said:


> Who are you referring too?


The monkey that standing behind you


----------



## Darlyn (May 30, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> The monkey that standing behind you



Oh... that monkey is my dinner!


----------



## BurtonReptiles (May 30, 2011)

ok next person please


----------



## K3nny (May 31, 2011)

some farming practices are abit dodgy hence the merits of going vego
not to mention the problems with obesity n stuff

on the *****ide you sorta have to supplement with some vitamin B cz vegies aint exactly a complete foodstuff
+ pesticides, herbicides, bulldozing bushland for crop growing, is as valid as methane production from a ecological standpoint

not all animals are raised in horrid conditions, if you ever check how the japs raise wagyu beef cattle, its amazing how they actually care for the animals. its my personal opinion a larger number of animals should be treated with such respect although unfortunately most of the time thats not the case

back on track, not vegan, i have canines and i plan on using em, doing 2nd year food science & nutrition sorta keeps me in check on what i eat but that also includes a healthy serving of meat in addition to the veg


----------



## angie90 (May 31, 2011)

I eat vegetarian food sometimes because I like it. It's actually really good value at a restaurant because I find you always get more! But I choose it because I like the taste, not really any other reason. I do also like meat & I get intense cravings for it when i don't have it after a while. Unfortunately, as far as I know anyway, the type of iron in vegetables needs a huge amount of another vit (think it's c?) to actually absorb so in order to be nutritionally complete you would have to be very balanced IMO. I have a veg friend who insists on taking vegetarian vitamins (derived from plants, non-gelatin capsules) just in case.

However the nutriotional deficiencies involved in any diet usually depends a lot on the actual person. I have another friend who doesn't eat much red meat at all but is naturally iron-laden! A problem being with this too is that when you have too much of something/not enough, it's very similar symptoms.

I also only drink soy milk. A huge amount of people say that the body isn't really meant to have animal milk after childhood. But I just like the taste of soy milk, yum!

My 2c.


----------



## KaotikJezta (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> laters
> 
> People should watch a dvd called 'earthlings' ..give it a go haha


I was a vegetarian for over 15 years and it was because of ethical issues BUT earthlings is a PETA con, that organisation is so hypocritical it's not funny. They have a kill only policy at all their lost animals shelters and if you pay attention to earthlings you will notice it is all filmed in the same few slaughterhouses and shelters. A lot of what it says is true but a lot of the movie is sensationalised for their own agenda. One of the biggest myths in meat is that the way we slaughter with the bolt is humane and the DVD does show that this is untrue I will give them that. The most humane way to slaughter meat is the way it is done by Muslims. The animal loses consciousness very quickly and drifts off, but organisations like PETA have drummed it into everyones head that this is cruel. Before anyone attacks me for this go and do a search of the real way halal meat is slaughtered. It is not just the killing process either, under halal law they have to be raised in a safe environment, treated with respect, not fed or given artificial chemicals and not exposed to a fearful death. That is why most organic meat is also Halal certified.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> I was a vegetarian for over 15 years and it was because of ethical issues BUT earthlings is a PETA con, that organisation is so hypocritical it's not funny. They have a kill only policy at all their lost animals shelters and if you pay attention to earthlings you will notice it is all filmed in the same few slaughterhouses and shelters. A lot of what it says is true but a lot of the movie is sensationalised for their own agenda. One of the biggest myths in meat is that the way we slaughter with the bolt is humane and the DVD does show that this is untrue I will give them that. The most humane way to slaughter meat is the way it is done by Muslims. The animal loses consciousness very quickly and drifts off, but organisations like PETA have drummed it into everyones head that this is cruel. Before anyone attacks me for this go and do a search of the real way halal meat is slaughtered. It is not just the killing process either, under halal law they have to be raised in a safe environment, treated with respect, not fed or given artificial chemicals and not exposed to a fearful death. That is why most organic meat is also Halal certified.


 
can i ask why you went back to meat? i dont think id be able to do it now after 5 yrs let alone 15... it creeps me out now =/


----------



## Pinoy (May 31, 2011)

Can I ask another question here? Hope you don't mind 

If you were to make a vege meal for someone in hopes of changing them over, what would it be? (kinda looking for some good ideas/recipes lol)


----------



## ravan (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> Although i do love chicken style nuggets!


 
they are pretty much the most amazing thing ever lol. 
have them on pizza, in a sammich or with tacos! 
yumm! 
now im going to go buy some


----------



## notechistiger (May 31, 2011)

I love my meat far too much to give it up. The only meat I absolutely refuse to eat is veal, because veal practices are cruel no matter what way you go about it.


----------



## marteed (May 31, 2011)

Hi all,
Im a Vegetarian, i have been for 15yrs. I love animals which is why I became a vego. I am the only one in my family that doesnt eat meat, even my 2kids eat meat as I believe it is their choice as to whether they will be meat eaters or not. The only issues i have is finding nice tasty meals when going out, although i must admit it is slowly getting better. I dont push my opinions on to anyone and get really tired of the jokes that are directed my way (15yrs of hearing the same thing gets tiring, and i dont make jokes of others opinions). One other thing that gets to me are the "new" age vegetarians. "Im a vegetarian but i eat white meat" or "im a vegetarian but eat seafood". No you are just selective of what meat you eat
*My opinion*- 
vegetarian (me) = someone who doesnt eat any meat but still eats/drinks dairy and eggs, 
vegan = no animal products at all


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

marteed said:


> *My opinion*-
> vegetarian (me) = someone who doesnt eat any meat but still eats/drinks dairy and eggs,
> vegan = no animal products at all


 Aren't they the definitions rather than opinions?


----------



## marteed (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Aren't they the definitions rather than opinions?


 
Ok, sorry i should have worded it better. "In my opinion the definition of"...... etc. etc...


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol not really. That is the definition regardless of your opinion. But I think I get your point


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Rant.


 
I love animals, and I hate the thought of animals being killed inhumanely. These scumbags in the third world countries that not only kill, but torture animals don't deserve to live themselves. People in Korea torture animals when they kill them, due to the fact that they believe the more adrenaline the animal is experiencing at the time of death, the tastier the meat is. These are the areas of livestock produce that need to be stopped. These pathetic people should starve to death and torture each other for a feed, we don't need them.

On the other hand though, you pretend to know about the meat industry in Australia, which you evidently don't. You claim that livestock here have a bad life, I assure you any grain fed steer that has access to shelter is a happy animal. They get the best medical treatment, preventative care and eat better than you "vegiewhatsies". The end of the line for them is understandably upsetting for some (even me), but the animal doesn't know it's about to be knocked on the head. 

Vegetarians take iron supplements, without these you'd have to eat meat. So in a world not as advanced as ours, you'd have no choice. 

The talk of greens feeding the world is all well and good, but if that's the case why isn't subsistence farming in the 3rd world countries working? The farmers sell their produce for little cash, but why wouldn't they just eat it instead?

Please don't take this as a go at you, the "rant" was just a joke, because I couldn't be bothered multiquoting. Wanting to be a voice for the animals is very noble, and when I see the ads on TV about animal welfare, they hit home with me a lot more than the ads of the poor people. I have much more compassion for animals than humans.


----------



## marteed (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> .
> 
> 
> Vegetarians take iron supplements, without these you'd have to eat meat.


 
Not always the case, I have never taken these and my blood tests are always fine


----------



## beeman (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> I love animals, and I hate the thought of animals being killed inhumanely. These scumbags in the third world countries that not only kill, but torture animals don't deserve to live themselves. People in Korea torture animals when they kill them, due to the fact that they believe the more adrenaline the animal is experiencing at the time of death, the tastier the meat is. These are the areas of livestock produce that need to be stopped. These pathetic people should starve to death and torture each other for a feed, we don't need them.
> 
> On the other hand though, you pretend to know about the meat industry in Australia, which you evidently don't. You claim that livestock here have a bad life, I assure you any grain fed steer that has access to shelter is a happy animal. They get the best medical treatment, preventative care and eat better than you "vegiewhatsies". The end of the line for them is understandably upsetting for some (even me), but the animal doesn't know it's about to be knocked on the head.
> 
> ...


 
For once i agree with your post, Well done sir.
(For the record i am one of this countrys food producers)


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Yeah there are iron rich veges like spinach and mushrooms (and lentils?) that can substitute for that but otherwise I agree with that whole post KR. Well said.
This also just occurred to me. I think I thought of it last night but didn't end up typing it. For the people who have seen videos of a good abattoir and see the animals thrash around while their throats are cut, this doesn't mean the animals are aware and are thrashing because of pain. If it is done correctly, they are rendered brain dead before their throats are cut and the thrashing is muscle spasms. I think this is an important point because it is one of the big excuses I have heard from a lot of militant vegos and it's just not correct.

Beeman I don't know what you produce but I take my hat off to you. I understand farming of any kind is hard work in this country and the rewards are not often big. So much respect to you


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beeman said:


> For once i agree with you post, Well done sir.
> (For the record i am one of this countrys food producers)


Thanks mate.

Cheers, Dan.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

same with me....i wasn't taking iron supplements and my bloods were all fine...


----------



## Bradchip (May 31, 2011)

This isn't a joke question, but do vegans eat honey? I'm seriously curious.

I seem to get different answers depending on who I ask


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

That mightn't be the case later in life. You've admitted yourself to taking them, also.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

Before i became vego..i didn't realise how many meals that i was eating..they didn't contain meat. now the smell of meat makes my stomach feel funny haa



Bradchip said:


> This isn't a joke question, but do vegans eat honey? I'm seriously curious.
> 
> I seem to get different answers depending on who I ask


 
My vegan friends don't...because the bees make it..hard work right there lol


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Bradchip said:


> This isn't a joke question, but do vegans eat honey? I'm seriously curious.
> 
> I seem to get different answers depending on who I ask


 
If honey contains any form of protein, or anything that boosts energy levels, the answer is no


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

I said i've taken them but i was pointing out that i've been vego for years now and i was fine without taking any supplement. you can get plenty of iron from spinach etc. I have vegan/vego friends that are really healthy. One guy i know...vego for 43 years and he is very healthy and is never sick


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Bradchip said:


> This isn't a joke question, but do vegans eat honey? I'm seriously curious.
> 
> I seem to get different answers depending on who I ask


 Full on ones don't. It's still a product derived by "exploiting the hard work of animals"
I heard one guy trying to turn people off by explaining that it's actually vomit. Mmm delicious, sweet vomit


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> If honey contains any form of protein, or anything that boosts energy levels, the answer is no


 
Why can't people just accept that there are people out there who are passionate about animals and don't want to eat them..or eat any product containing an animal...no need to make a joke out of it. I don't laugh at people and their religion etc


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

If you're interested and you've got a spare hour, watch this video: YouTube - ‪Best Speech You Will Ever Hear - Gary Yourofsky‬&rlm;
This is the one that converted my now crazy vegan friend literally overnight. I disagree with a few of his points and I don't like his "preachy" style (reminiscent of an evangelical church IMO) but it's interesting nonetheless


----------



## REPTILIAN-KMAN (May 31, 2011)

*i think certain people took over this thread just to have a go at the thread starter !!! *

*the question posted was not about do you eat meat or are you a vegan or vegetarian* !!!

while i do eat meat and eat alot of meat i agree way too much meat i accept that each to thier own i dont want the lifestyle most people have and i would agree that most dont want mine! 

*but i think hijacking a thread by a thread starter just to have a go at them about there choices of lifestyle in which they live it is unaustraaaliaanan ( bogan ).*

we are all different and as individuals we should accept that others dont want there threads hacked by persons who dont agree with the views of others on here !!

this is not at thread on who eats what but *who on this site is a vegan or vegetarian *

*By the way i am a bogan so have a go *


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Why can't people just accept that there are people out there who are passionate about animals and don't want to eat them..or eat any product containing an animal...no need to make a joke out of it. I don't laugh at people and their religion etc


 
Did you even read my post on the previous page? I said what you stood for was noble, I just pointed out that you were clueless as to the livestock industry in Australia. I love animals, too.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

REPTILIAN-KMAN said:


> *i think certain people took over this thread just to have a go at the thread starter !!! *
> 
> *the question posted was not about do you eat meat or are you a vegan or vegetarian* !!!
> 
> ...


 
I know people took it the wrong way when i was only asking who was vego/vegan..there will always be people who will tell me i need meat etc...always

but thanks you are awesome


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

It's a shame Earthling isn't around any more. I think he'd be all over this thread


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> If you're interested and you've got a spare hour, watch this video: YouTube - ‪Best Speech You Will Ever Hear - Gary Yourofsky‬&rlm;
> This is the one that converted my now crazy vegan friend literally overnight. I disagree with a few of his points and I don't like his "preachy" style (reminiscent of an evangelical church IMO) but it's interesting nonetheless


 
I'm going to attempt to watch it. I think I might grab a few burgers for the duration, first


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol nice. If you've got a weak constitution I suggest skipping the section with the dairy farm video


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Did you even read my post on the previous page? I said what you stood for was noble, I just pointed out that you were clueless as to the livestock industry in Australia. I love animals, too.


 
how am i clueless...i understand and know alot about animals and the livestock industry in australia. I said the animals SHOULD NOT be transported to other countries while still alive. They are put through so much....mistreated etc only to be slaughtered when they get there. If other countries want meat well bad luck they should have the poor thing put down before hand.... not put on a boat. The Australian livestock industry is a joke....they want money..most of them don't care about the animals well being..fair few do



saximus said:


> It's a shame Earthling isn't around any more. I think he'd be all over this thread


 
I have it on dvd. My mate brought it back from the UK haha..when i watched it i nearly spewed!


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> how am i clueless...i understand and know alot about animals and the livestock industry in australia. I said the animals SHOULD NOT be transported to other countries while still alive. They are put through so much....mistreated etc only to be slaughtered when they get there. If other countries want meat well bad luck they should have the poor thing put down before hand.... not put on a boat. The Australian livestock industry is a joke....they want money..most of them don't care about the animals well being..fair few do


 
Have you ever worked on a farm, sweetie? I agreed with you as to the treatment of animals in other countries, but your perception of the livestock industry in Australia is not correct. It _is_ for profit, but that doesn't mean the animals are treated poorly.

Ever heard of Jap-Ox or Korean-Ox? Two of our biggest export markets, they get sent over dressed.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha nah I mean the member named Earthling. I'm sure the name was inspired by that movie though. I was challenged to watch it all the way though and it was upsetting but once again, I have to have faith that the rules and regulations stop that level of torture occurring in this country


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (May 31, 2011)

there used to be a member on aps called earthling hun.

sorry saximus beat me to it.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> lol nice. If you've got a weak constitution I suggest skipping the section with the dairy farm video


 
He's a great $h1t talker, I like his style. I'm gunna watch the whole thing. Reminds me of myself, very opinionated. I love public speaking.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

I wouldn't say i've worked on a farm but i grew up on one when i was younger. And people like to believe that the animals are looked after. That isn't the case..and i can fight this one  because i do know alot about it. My friends dad went over to korea and let's just say the slaughterhouses there are horrid. I didn't say everyone mistreats them but the majority of them do. it's all about money money money not about looking after the animals.

I may only be 23 but i've dedicated alot of my life to looking after animals and reading into animal cruelty. It's something i am very passionate about



newtolovingsnake said:


> there used to be a member on aps called earthling hun.
> 
> sorry saximus beat me to it.


 
haha sorry i didn't realise


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

What about your animals? Do you think it's cruel to keep them in a 4ft box when they would be roaming free in the wild? (this is the question that Earthling asked so many times that he was kindly asked to stop)


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

I do agree that it's cruel! I have a dog and cat that pretty much run my house. I saved my turtle from near dead so he is now living in luxury.my three beardies are in the process of getting a massive enclosure built..about the size of my room. They are spoilt. And of the beardies was also saved from near death. he wasn't looking after and was really sick

whoops near death ***

i think i am a little special today..a lot of spelling mistakes. think i need to go back to bed


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> I wouldn't say i've worked on a farm but i grew up on one when i was younger. And people like to believe that the animals are looked after. *That isn't the case..and i can fight this one  because i do know alot* about it. *My friends dad went over to korea and let's just say the slaughterhouses there are horrid*. I didn't say everyone mistreats them but the majority of them do. it's all about money money money not about looking after the animals.
> 
> I may only be 23 but i've dedicated alot of my life to looking after animals and reading into animal cruelty. It's something i am very passionate about


 
This really frustrates me... I have AGREED with you in regards to other countries, yet you keep arguing with me on this point, when we share the same view?

Livestock in Australia aren't mistreated anymore than the average pet dog. I've worked on farms, I've bred meat cattle and I've shown cattle. You haven't worked on a farm, or seen a grain fed animal obviously.

Let me ask you this, if a 6-700 kg steer was mistreated, do you think it would be possible to give it a pat? Keep in mind, this is an animal that can run away, or kick the F out of you if it's confined. There ARE some exceptions, and some old school farmers that are cruel, but the industry as a whole (within Australia) is humane. It doesn't matter how old you are, you don't have to be old to present a good argument, you're older than me.

You obviously haven't read my posts at all, or you haven't been able to comprehend what I've attempted to convey, because I'm in agreement with you about the overseas livestock industries, yet you argue with me about it?


----------



## HoffOff (May 31, 2011)

Yummy yummy pork.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol the guy in that video I posted attempts to. He also says that our digestive tract length suggests that we're herbivores. That's one of those points I disagree with but as far as I know it still hasn't been proven scientifically for either case


----------



## REPTILIAN-KMAN (May 31, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> there used to be a member on aps called earthling hun.
> 
> sorry saximus beat me to it.


 
I think earthling is still around on here as i offen seen his member tag up !!!

*beardielove - i too saw the doco last nite on four corners about the treatment of livestock and it was appalling the way they treat live stock and food.*

*i felt for the animals on the show when being tripped over and brutally abused by handlers i dont think any human would not feel for these great animals ! *

*how they would whip and and bash the cattle and hearing the cattle ( moo ) back and i agreed with the commentry about the cattle appearedto yell WHY ! *

*any human that watch last nites program should be ashamed of themselves by the way our livestock gets treated !!!!*


----------



## lace90 (May 31, 2011)

haha interesting thread.

I agree meat is a necessary part of the human diet; I wouldn't encourage a child become a vegetarian until after puberty. I am, however, a vegetarian myself, and have been for quite a few years. If anyone who is a vego wants some awesome recipes, I have a few you might be interested in, and if you guys have any to share with me that would also be appreciated  I love new meal ideas!

oh, and how sad is earthlings :'(


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> lol the guy in that video I posted attempts to. He also says that our digestive tract length suggests that we're herbivores. That's one of those points I disagree with but as far as I know it still hasn't been proven scientifically for either case


 
The part of the video showing the slaughtering is disgusting. I watched it, but it distressed me. I still say animals that are slaughtered correctly don't go through that. The slaughter houses I've been to have the animals knocked before anything happens to them. 

The CRUEL areas of the industry (like the majority of the OS industries) and the odd sadistic farmer here needs to be stopped. There are right ways to do things, and the livestock that I worked with were happy little chaps


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> This really frustrates me... I have AGREED with you in regards to other countries, yet you keep arguing with me on this point, when we share the same view?
> 
> Livestock in Australia aren't mistreated anymore than the average pet dog. I've worked on farms, I've bred meat cattle and I've shown cattle. You haven't worked on a farm, or seen a grain fed animal obviously.
> 
> ...


 
Of course i am going to argue with you when i don't agree. you don't agree with me so that's why you keep writing back yes? And i am VERY aware of the animal cruelty that goes on with all animals..not just livestock. We were just talking about cows etc that is why i didn't mention dogs, cats, seals etc. And you say the slaughterhouses you have been too don't mistreat their animals...well that is the ones you have seen..you don't know what goes on at every single slaughterhouse.It has been proven time and time again (watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses) that they don't really care what happens to the animals. whatever is cheaper...and slitting their throat (most of the time with a blunt knife) is the cheapest way to kill them. Then it takes minutes for them to bleed out and choke..painful death...


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> whatever is cheaper...and slitting their throat (most of the time with a blunt knife) is the cheapest way to kill them. Then it takes minutes for them to bleed out and choke..painful death...


 That's not correct. The most efficient (and therefore cheapest) would be a sharp knife that does the job in the first cut and allows the animal to bleed out quickly. Also on the choking thing, as I said before, they are rendered brain dead before the throats are cut. That's the law. You're right that it doesn't happen everywhere but if they are following the rules they have to.


----------



## ShaunMorelia (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> ...It has been proven time and time again (watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses) that they don't really care what happens to the animals. whatever is cheaper...and slitting their throat (most of the time with a blunt knife) is the cheapest way to kill them. Then it takes minutes for them to bleed out and choke..painful death...


 
*to the tune of another one bites the dust*
duh duh duh The media strikes again... duh duh duh the media strikes again


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

i know that is the most efficient way but in saying that..it doesn't mean that it happens that way. If the knife isn't really sharp..do you think they are going to care? If you can work in a slaughterhouse and slit all of these animals throats i don't think you would really care how they die anyway


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Of course i am going to argue with you when i don't agree.* you don't agree with me so that's why you keep writing back yes?* And i am VERY aware of the animal cruelty that goes on with all animals..not just livestock. We were just talking about cows etc that is why i didn't mention dogs, cats, seals etc. And you say the slaughterhouses you have been too don't mistreat their animals...well that is the ones you have seen.*.you don't know what goes on at every single slaughterhouse.*It has been proven time and time again (watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses) that they don't really care what happens to the animals. whatever is cheaper...and slitting their throat (*most of the time with a blunt knife*) is the cheapest way to kill them. Then it takes minutes for them to bleed out and choke..painful death...


 
Do you know how to read? I am in agreement with you....

I don't know what goes on at EVERY slaughterhouse, but my posts say that the dodgy ones need to be shut down. Strict monitoring of farms and slaughter houses needs to be implemented. I also say that the pathetic people that torture animals overseas deserve to die. 

Why would they use a blunt knife? That's so ridiculous. 

I ask you to go back and read each one of my posts. I am in agreement with you with almost everything, except for the fact that you naively tar EVERY area of the industry with the same brush.

Sax - I'm keen to maybe try being a vegan, after all the health benefits this guy listed. I'll be looking it up to see if they're 100% true. If my energy levels are the same, and I'm healthier it might be worth it. Not sure how I'll go not eating meat at all though, I might be a fake vegan and eat it, but make the majority of my meals vegan style, lol.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

The_S_Word said:


> *to the tune of another one bites the dust*
> duh duh duh The media strikes again... duh duh duh the media strikes again


 
Yeah, i don't think so. I don't go by what the media says. I know enough without having to watch the news or videos.



kawasakirider said:


> Do you know how to read? I am in agreement with you....
> 
> I don't know what goes on at EVERY slaughterhouse, but my posts say that the dodgy ones need to be shut down. Strict monitoring of farms and slaughter houses needs to be implemented. I also say that the pathetic people that torture animals overseas deserve to die.
> 
> ...


 
no need to be rude.. i'm not an idiot i know how to read.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Sax - I'm keen to maybe try being a vegan, after all the health benefits this guy listed. I'll be looking it up to see if they're 100% true. If my energy levels are the same, and I'm healthier it might be worth it. Not sure how I'll go not eating meat at all though, I might be a fake vegan and eat it, but make the majority of my meals vegan style, lol.


 One of my vege friends told me you really do get increased energy levels for the first little while but then after a year or so it drops. She said most of her friends encountered the same thing when they converted


beardielove said:


> Yeah, i don't think so. I don't go by what the media says. I know enough without having to watch the news or videos.


 You just contradicted yourself - "It has been proven time and time again (watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses) that they don't really care what happens..."


----------



## Nadzzz (May 31, 2011)

um why would people in Slaughterhouses use blunt knifes?

Ever tried cutting a steak with a butter knife?.. you would give up pretty quick.

Why would they make there jobs harder?


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Yeah, i don't think so. *I don't go by what the media says*. I know enough without having to watch the news or videos.
> 
> 
> 
> no need to be rude.. i'm not an idiot i know how to read.





beardielove said:


> It has been proven time and time again (watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses) .


 
Right....



beardielove said:


> i'm not an idiot i know how to read.



Then utilise the skill and read my posts. I agree with you....


----------



## ShaunMorelia (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Yeah, i don't think so. I don't go by what the media says. I know enough without having to watch the news or videos.



So what you are saying is that you aren't influenced by the media and have personally gone out and visited these stock yards/slaughter houses?

I quote you here


beardielove said:


> watching interviews with people who work at the slaughterhouses


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

lol the three of us just grabbed that same point :/.
That's exactly correct Nadzzz. It's just not efficient. Apparently on this doco about Indonesian slaughterhouses it took the guy ten attempts to cut one of the throats. I can't see how that would make anything cheaper or easier


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> One of my vege friends told me you really do get increased energy levels for the first little while but then after a year or so it drops. She said most of her friends encountered the same thing when they converted


 
I'd be worried about them dropping if I stopped eating meat... I'm trying a clean bulk at the gym at the moment, protein is pretty important. IDK if I could do it all the time, but I'd like to incorporate a larger majority of these meals if the health benefits are definitely there.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I think a reduction is enough to make a difference. Like Kman said earlier, we probably eat too much now because of the availability of it. If you believe in evolution etc. then it would make sense that we evolved to consume small amounts of meat that we could catch and kill. This would have meant that it wouldn't have been eaten every day or in the volume that we do now. I'm only eating it once or twice a week now because of the cost and it does seem to feel pretty good. That could just be because I'm also exercising more frequently than I used to as well though


----------



## Nadzzz (May 31, 2011)

If a cave man can sharpen a spear with a rock i think that anyone working in a slaughterhouse can make there job easier and would be using sharp tools.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

The_S_Word said:


> So what you are saying is that you aren't influenced by the media and have personally gone out and visited these stock yards/slaughter houses?
> 
> I quote you here


 
haha! Of course i still watch things on tv - I have alot of friends/relatives/friends on friends who have told me stories. And i know a lot of what goes on in other countries. And not everything the media says is correct but sometimes these investigations are correct. I know they may make it seem worse than it is to get people watching...but this hidden footage you see alot of the time...it's pretty damn true


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> I think a reduction is enough to make a difference. Like Kman said earlier, we probably eat too much now because of the availability of it. If you believe in evolution etc. then it would make sense that we evolved to consume small amounts of meat that we could catch and kill. This would have meant that it wouldn't have been eaten every day or in the volume that we do now. I'm only eating it once or twice a week now because of the cost and it does seem to feel pretty good. That could just be because I'm also exercising more frequently than I used to as well though



That's logical. How much are you saving a week by not eating meat? I buy all the heart smart stuff, and once a fortnight I have a feed of atlantic salmon. I try to eat as healthy as possible, and I've found that if I am careful with what I buy, I don't spend too much. My GF and I eat for about $200 a fortnight, although it's only one main meal a day, and a little bit here and there through the day (can't afford to have a big lunch as a uni student), I find that oats are cheap and good for breakfast. I'd like to cut down on the food bill, or keep it similar and eat more, lol. I eat a lot of tuna, too. 

I guess I eat pretty well for a broke uni student, everyone else told me I'd be living of 2 minute noodles, haha.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Right....
> 
> 
> 
> Then utilise the skill and read my posts. I agree with you....


 
you are pretty rude. Clearly i started a post which said WHO IS VEGAN OR VEGO...not a post about being a smart***


----------



## Travisty (May 31, 2011)

Here I was thinking that meat just came from the supermarket/butcher and now I find out it comes from animals.:cry:


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> Two beardies (charlize and Iggy) a long neck turtle (Franklin) PJ (my cat) and i have a Little pug (boston) and getting a french bulldog soon


 

Are you going to feed your french bulldog a vegan diet? How about your cat? Do you feed the beardies crickets?


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Are you going to feed your french bulldog a vegan diet? How about your cat? Do you feed the beardies crickets?


 
haha wow has anyone told you ..you are annoying. yes because this thread was about what i feed my animals


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Yeah I hang onto every word of a "special investigation" on ACA when there's hidden cameras involved 
I still disagree with you when you talk about other countries. We aren't in other countries and a person's choice to not eat meat in Australia has no impact on the slaughter practices in Korea. If a choice is purely based on ethical reasons about the fact that you don't want living things to be killed then I can accept that as your choice but don't talk about slaughter practices in other countries and use that as your reasons. It's just not logical


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> you are pretty rude. Clearly i started a post which said WHO IS VEGAN OR VEGO...not a post about being a smart***


 
You were the one ranting about the cruelty of animals within the livestock industry, I was informing you that you were wrong. I also _agreed with you_ on the majority of your points, but you overlooked that completely and spat out useless posts.



beardielove said:


> haha wow has anyone told you ..you are annoying. yes because this thread was about what i feed my animals


 
Annoying doesn't make me wrong. The question is a valid one, if you buy meat products for your animal, you're supporting the industry you despise.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Yeah I hang onto every word of a "special investigation" on ACA when there's hidden cameras involved
> I still disagree with you when you talk about other countries. We aren't in other countries and a person's choice to not eat meat in Australia has no impact on the slaughter practices in Korea. If a choice is purely based on ethical reasons about the fact that you don't want living things to be killed then I can accept that as your choice but don't talk about slaughter practices in other countries and use that as your reasons. It's just not logical


 
As i said i don't eat meat because i don't like eating anything with a face. The whole slaughterhouse thing was brought up in convo..never said that's why i was vego.



kawasakirider said:


> You were the one ranting about the cruelty of animals within the livestock industry, I was informing you that you were wrong. I also _agreed with you_ on the majority of your points, but you overlooked that completely and spat out useless posts.
> 
> 
> 
> Annoying doesn't make me wrong. The question is a valid one, if you buy meat products for your animal, you're supporting the industry you despise.


 
useless now? and asking me if i can read. If you have nothing better to do than come onto these sites and try and put people down then that's pretty sad. Go argue with someone else please


----------



## Wally (May 31, 2011)

Aren't we lucky that the majority of us in this country have the luxury of choice.


----------



## ShaunMorelia (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> As i said i don't eat meat because i don't like eating anything with a face. The whole slaughterhouse thing was brought up in convo..never said that's why i was vego.


 
What are you going to eat now?


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

Slaughterhouses, rodeos, horse racing, animal fighting, circuses, the use of animals for human entertainment, fur farms, killing animals for certain parts of their body. Horrid.


"We must be the change we wish to see." Me being vego doesn't effect anyone else - just makes me feel happier knowing i don't eat my mates!



The_S_Word said:


> What are you going to eat now?


 
alright that made me laugh hahahahahaahhah


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

Don't bother responding to me because you lost me ages ago. Fair enough if you want to argue a point but there's a way of going about it. I don't appreciate the way you come off..being rude.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

beardielove said:


> you lost me ages ago.


 
Pretty sure I never had your attention in the first place, considering the fact I am in agreement with you, and you had no idea.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

I hope everyone is eating dolphin friendly tuna =]

You guys sure have been busy...

It doesn't reallly matter if your an expert farm person. All I know is that I hate the idea of animals being killed (humanely or not) for me to eat. It doesn't matter if Australians kill the animals humanely here it's still happening overseas and being a vegetarian/vegan is you taking a personal stand against it. It's not really going to achieve anything but at least I have a clear conscience =] btw no one has mentioned the starving Africans! They are also suffering so you can eat meat. I'm not trying to get you to stop, but as saximus said if you just reduce your meat intake to a couple of times a week. 

Btw I take no supplements and am apparently healthy enough to give blood every 3 months. My iron = awesome. With no supplements


----------



## Adzo (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> You'd be partaking in animal cruelty if you purchased your future bulldog, and deprived him of meat.


Although I agree with your stance, I doubt it would be classed as animal cruelty. The RSPCA approves eggs from grain fed chickens(domesticated jungle fowl), yet wild jungle fowl are primarily insectivorous. That and the EAA profile for dogs can be met in a vegetarian diet. Cats are a completely different story though. 
Read the comments too. Its where you'll find gold such as this.






kawasakirider said:


> I'd be worried about them dropping if I stopped eating meat... I'm trying a clean bulk at the gym at the moment, protein is pretty important. IDK if I could do it all the time, but I'd like to incorporate a larger majority of these meals if the health benefits are definitely there.


Come on man! Summer is ages away. Dirty bulk ftw!
Get off BB.com and join the Nation!
Do you lift for aesthetics, BB, powerlifting or other?


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Adzo said:


> Although I agree with your stance, I doubt it would be classed as animal cruelty. The RSPCA approves eggs from grain fed chickens(domesticated jungle fowl), yet wild jungle fowl are primarily insectivorous. That and the EAA profile for dogs can be met in a vegetarian diet. Cats are a completely different story though.
> Read the comments too. Its where you'll find gold such as this.
> 
> 
> ...


 
It sounds really lame, but aesthetics (and strength), hence the clean bulk, haha, I used to have pretty cut abs, but they're almost long gone, so it's KIND of a small dirty bulk, lol. BB.com has too much bro science, it's good when you want to look up plans that are proven, but posting there gets ridiculous, I like it for some reason, though  BB is tooooo big, I don't wanna look like jay cutler. There's a guy on there with killer aesthetics, he's natural, too. Can't remember his name but you would have seen him, he has a huge gap between his abs, I won't look like that, but I'd like to get that big.

What do you lift for man?


----------



## Tristan (May 31, 2011)

Adzo said:


> Although I agree with your stance, I doubt it would be classed as animal cruelty....



i take your point but find it interesting in this article they quote

"Australian Wildlife Protection Council president Maryland Wilson said it was wrong to keep nocturnal animals as pets."People want to play with them by day and they interfere with their natural basic instincts and behaviour patterns.
"They should be free from cruelty and exploitation."

so if changing the animals natural habit is cruelty and exploitative depriving a dog of meat would probably fit in that then no? 

Pet quokkas reigning over cats and dogs | News.com.au

personally i don't really mind what choice people make regarding eating meat etc, what does annoy me is "I'm a vegetarian, but i eat fish and or chicken" ...ah hello that's NOT a vegetarian you are simply some one who does not eat red meat :/ (tis also fine as a decision just use the correct label ha)

i say for the hard core tho go level 5 vegan don't eat anything that casts a shadow 


​


----------



## BurtonReptiles (May 31, 2011)

how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


 
You couldn't breed my pet. Nor would I allow you to eat it. If you decided to breed snakes for food, and they were killed HUMANELY, then no one could really argue against you, although it would be a niche market and I'm sure you'd go broke 

I see you've got a dog in your display pic, he looks like a good healthy animal, strong enough to withstand my cuddles, haha. I'm sure he didn't get that way eating beans.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


 Not really. Dogs are bred in some countries for meat and snakes are also eaten in a number of countries. Just because they are pets to some people doesn't mean they are off the menu for others. I wouldn't like you taking my personal pets and eating them but as far as I know most cows aren't any individual's pets either


----------



## HoffOff (May 31, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


sure, they'd taste pretty good i suppose.
Anyone here have that diet.. pure seafood?, that's a diet i could get used to.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> You couldn't breed my pet. Nor would I allow you to eat it. If you decided to breed snakes for food, and they were killed HUMANELY, then no one could really argue against you, although it would be a niche market and I'm sure you'd go broke
> 
> I see you've got a dog in your display pic, he looks like a good healthy animal, strong enough to withstand my cuddles, haha. I'm sure he didn't get that way eating beans.



nah i feed my dog human meat. that's how he got so fat



xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


 
LOL!!!!!!!!! you make me laugh


----------



## Adzo (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> I don't wanna look like jay cutler.
> 
> 
> > I don't think many people on the planet have to worry about that!
> ...


Started lifting for general health and fitness but wasn't eating right and didn't get anywhere, left it for a few years then started up again focusing on the the big three whilst eating better. Got some results.
2 years ago I stated training with my brother and our best mate in powerlifting and loved it, even though I cannot squat that well (1.4 bodyweight is my best for 1 rep)
Slacked off in the last 6 months but looking to get back into it, maybe some strongman if I can get the time off work.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Adzo said:


> Started lifting for general health and fitness but wasn't eating right and didn't get anywhere, left it for a few years then started up again focusing on the the big three with whilst eating better. Got some results.
> 2 years ago I stated training with my brother and our best mate in powerlifting and loved it, even though I cannot squat that well (1.4 bodyweight is my best for 1 rep)
> Slacked off in the last 6 months but looking to get back into it, maybe some strongman if I can get the time off work.


 
Being on a uni budget it's hard to eat enough. I eat one decent meal a day. But I still have had some visible gains. I'd like to see what I could achieve with a proper diet and routine 

Sounds like you've made good progress nonetheless.


----------



## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.


 

Why would it have to be somebody's pet snake... If you wish to cultivate snakes for the purpose of food go ahead. I'm sure there's a market for it, SE Asia perhaps? Just make sure their humanely killed. No one is trying to eat YOUR pet cow, lamb, deer, turtle, chicken, or any thing of yours for that matter.


----------



## Travisty (May 31, 2011)

xMattybx said:


> how about i eat your pet snakes and breed them for food bet you guys change your minds on things then.



It would be a bit difficult to breed a snake once you have eaten it


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

oh c'mon he was joking around..


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

I guess you'd know better than us, BL but to me it seemed like a cheap attempt at reductio ad absurdum


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

i do know better because i know he is a joker...he wasn't being serious


----------



## notechistiger (May 31, 2011)

There are so many childish comments in here. Others just seem to be having issues with reading and comprehension.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

you get that where ever you go.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

notechistiger said:


> There are so many childish comments in here. Others just seem to be having issues with reading and comprehension.





beardielove said:


> you get that where ever you go.


 
There's not a large enough font size that I could type "LOL" with that would convey the smile that crept upon my face when I read that reply to notechistigers post.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

eh go away you are pathetic


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Are you serious? You don't know how to read, or you can't comprehend the words you're reading. 

I have been _*AGREEING WITH YOU*_ the whole time, all I offered was something for you to take a bit of solace in. It may have opened your eyes a tad. You still haven't answered my question properly in regards to what you feed your dog, because if you feed it meat, you're supporting the industry you loath so much.

I hope you don't get into the debate group, haha.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

Hhhhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahhahahhahaha


----------



## Nadzzz (May 31, 2011)

well that was a pointless comment...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

i already told you..we don't get along and you annoy me so why bother?



Nadzzz said:


> well that was a pointless comment...


 
all i can do is laugh actually.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

I think there's a saying that goes something like "Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience", I should have payed attention.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

idiot? here we go again. trying to bag me out again. hope you feel better about yourself.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

AshleighMarie said:


> idiot? here we go again. trying to bag me out again. hope you feel better about yourself.


 
I didn't invent the quote.

I added you as a friend


----------



## ezekiel86 (May 31, 2011)

I know a person who thinks they are both..but still eats fish...maccaz nuggest and popcorn chicken..
and like thickshakes... what the...


----------



## lace90 (May 31, 2011)

ezekiel86 said:


> I know a person who thinks they are both..but still eats fish...maccaz nuggest and popcorn chicken..
> and like thickshakes... what the...



-_-


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

ezekiel86 said:


> I know a person who thinks they are both..but still eats fish...maccaz nuggest and popcorn chicken..
> and like thickshakes... what the...


 
lol..what the indeed!


----------



## notechistiger (May 31, 2011)

AshleighMarie, my comment was directed at you. Obviously there's no point in arguing with you though, because you seem to take things personally without actually reading what is being said.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

haha yes agreed =] those people frustrate me!! or getting asked if i eat seafood where ever i go... or even getting fish as the vegetarian option. They're ruining it for everyone =/


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Isn't that called piscatarian?


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

notechistiger said:


> AshleighMarie, my comment was directed at you. Obviously there's no point in arguing with you though, because you seem to take things personally without actually reading what is being said.


 
i actually can't be bothered with this hey. It was a thread about who is vego or vegan..and it has turned into this..


----------



## beeman (May 31, 2011)

My two bobs worth!

I have no problem with people choosing to be vegetarian in either of the forms, But what i do object to is the arguements of Australian agricultural and processing cruelty that get perpetrated by the radical extremists to push their views.

It is very unfortunate there are what i would call third world countries that do practice husbandry of livestock in a very cruel/barbaric fashion, but to draw any sort of comparison to what we do here in this country is not only MISGUIDED but totally wrong.

As a farm based business it is unproductive to abuse and mistreat any of the forms of livestock that are used in agricultural practice, Abused mistreated livestock will not produce good returns!

Yes i am one of Australias food producers, I have been on a kill room floor
observing the slaughter on more than one occasion. There are codes, rules and regulations governing the slaughter of animals in this country to ensure no animal suffers and is humainly slaughtered!, All abattoirs conform to these standards or are shut down!


----------



## Wally (May 31, 2011)

AshleighMarie said:


> i actually can't be bothered with this hey. It was a thread about who is vego or vegan..and it has turned into this..



What did you expect? Fifty replies saying yes I'm a vego. This discussion was had twelve months ago with similar results. I guess it's not the concept itself that people wish to debate, more the reasons some have for wanting to pursue it.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

Wally76 said:


> What did you expect? Fifty replies saying yes I'm a vego. This discussion was had twelve months ago with similar results. I guess it's not the concept itself that people wish to debate, more the reasons some have for wanting to pursue it.


 
no...that's not what i was expecting but i also wasn't expecting some people to react the way they did. i wasn't writing a post to bag people out...i simply wanted to know who else was a vego and maybe talk to those people..get ideas and recipies..that is all.


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

You probably should have stated that that was your intention at the beginning so you'd have a case for asking us to stay out and not debate with you. Now that you've stated that though, I'll bow out of this conversation


----------



## Wally (May 31, 2011)

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/chit-chat-39/calling-vegetarians-vegans-142968/

From memory their may have been some recipes in here. Also some lively debate.


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

all good. i mean't no harm. it was good to have a little debate


----------



## Adzo (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Isn't that called piscatarian?


duh, Veg-aquarian!


----------



## notechistiger (May 31, 2011)

When you post a thread such as this on a *public* forum, of course you are going to get some debate. All it really takes is someone posting an alternate view or extremist ideals (which is what started this thread off). Not one person in this thread was questioning your beliefs, more your opinions on some matters which are incorrect (Australin abattoirs). It was entirely your choice to reply in the manner that you did.

I remember as a child walking into a butcher that I was astonished to learn the meat there actually came from animals (when I was five or six years old). I refused to eat anything with a face, but McDonald's was okay :lol:


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

it's all over now. all good, i have to get offline and make some home made soup haha


----------



## KaotikJezta (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> can i ask why you went back to meat? i dont think id be able to do it now after 5 yrs let alone 15... it creeps me out now =/


 It was all very accidental, I was cooking deep sea fish for some people after my friend came back from a deep sea fishing trip and I tasted some and couldn't believe how amazing it was. I don't eat much meat now though, still around 90% vegetarian and only organic and halal certified.


----------



## kat2005dodi (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> did you watch the ABC tonight? it was about our live exports to indonesia and how they are killing them... dismembering them while they are still alive =S i had work so i missed it...
> 
> anyone watch it?


A friend said it was horrific, there are numerous threads online, if you want to watch it!

Has anyone ever been in a Battery Hen Shed? if thats not cruel, I don''t know what is! It is a very common practice in Australia, ever wondered what happens to these birds when they are no longer of use?


----------



## damian83 (May 31, 2011)

killimike said:


> Carnivores taste funny. That's why people shouldn't eat me


 

yeah i agree with you there, but ill eat anything red white or pink lol


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

kat2005dodi said:


> A friend said it was horrific, there are numerous threads online, if you want to watch it!
> 
> Has anyone ever been in a Battery Hen Shed? if thats not cruel, I don''t know what is! It is a very common practice in Australia, ever wondered what happens to these birds when they are no longer of use?


 
after 18 months (even though they are still laying) they are slaughtered =/ thats why everyone should adopt a battery hen from homes for hens =]


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> after 18 months (even though they are still laying) they are slaughtered =/ thats why everyone should adopt a battery hen from homes for hens =]



They don't wander over the hill and never come back :O


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> They don't wander over the hill and never come back :O


 
unfortunately not =[ if your not a vego you should at least eat free range eggs. Batteries are outright cruelty, no farm experience necessary


----------



## angie90 (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> unfortunately not =[ if your not a vego you should at least eat free range eggs. Batteries are outright cruelty, no farm experience necessary


 So true. I ONLY eat free range eggs. No ifs or "but these are on special" changes that.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

woodys90 said:


> So true. I ONLY eat free range eggs. No ifs or "but these are on special" changes that.


 
yeah same =] they really arent that much more expensive anyway... i think its disgusting when shops (like aldi) only stock cage eggs


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

2 bucks compared to 6 bucks is quite a bit more expensive, 300%, actually.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

there usually only $2 more at my woolies... and really $4 in the scheme of things anyway?


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

jazzv said:


> there usually only $2 more at my woolies... and really $4 in the scheme of things anyway?


 
$4 dollars in the scheme of things anyway? LMAO, think about what you just said. If I sold 1 million carton of eggs for four bucks more per carton than the next bloke, I'd be four million dollars in front. That's just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## angie90 (May 31, 2011)

Lucky for me I have a wicked Spudshed (Kind of like aldi but bigger & local produce) just down the road from me. $2 for cage eggs $4 for free range. WINNING


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

woodys90 said:


> Lucky for me I have a wicked Spudshed (Kind of like aldi but bigger & local produce) just down the road from me. $2 for cage eggs $4 for free range. WINNING


 
If you're into this animal rights crap, you shouldn't quote Charlie Sheen, he slaughters tigers for their blood, and they're severely endangered


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> If you're into this animal rights crap, you shouldn't quote Charlie Sheen, he slaughters tigers for their blood, and they're severely endangered


 
hey! it's not animal rights "crap"!


----------



## redlittlejim (May 31, 2011)

im a massive meat eater! i only have fruit and veg twice a week.


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

AshleighMarie said:


> hey! it's not animal rights "crap"!


 
It was a joke because of the Charli.... Nevermind...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> It was a joke because of the Charli.... Nevermind...


 
I was also joking...i wasn't being serious..



redlittlejim said:


> im a massive meat eater! i only have fruit and veg twice a week.


 
you should eat more fruit and veg haha..


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> $4 dollars in the scheme of things anyway? LMAO, think about what you just said. If I sold 1 million carton of eggs for four bucks more per carton than the next bloke, I'd be four million dollars in front. That's just the tip of the iceberg.


 
i was talking about you as an individual? im not an idiot... i know how to do maths


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

ok so my BFF of 20yrs has announced because of whatever it was she saw on tv last night she is now a vego...my BFF that use to eat the marrow of chops! i know that this will last about a month because she is a girl of phases. Now she's telling me to watch some show on the cattle industry (that i don't actually care about...the meat is just amazing) because it will make me a vego.....uhhh nahh


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

Lambert said:


> ok so my BFF of 20yrs has announced because of whatever it was she saw on tv last night she is now a vego...my BFF that use to eat the marrow of chops! i know that this will last about a month because she is a girl of phases. Now she's telling me to watch some show on the cattle industry (that i don't actually care about...the meat is just amazing) because it will make me a vego.....uhhh nahh


 
we've already gone through all the meat eaters trying to start an argument. If you dont actually have a constructive comment apart from 'meat is good, in my belly' its realllly unneeded at this point. 

This is what im annoyed about... Its not even the vegos that start it. Its you guys disrespecting something that we feel strongly about


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

no, actually what i'm saying is that choose one or the other but don't make a habit of phasing. my BFF makes a habit of going through phases and so she is trying to get me to watch this program because it will change my mind where as i'm quite happy eating the food i do but i just don't want to hear her saying in a month how good the steak was. these are her past phases
emo
cutting parties
her sexuality (no she wasn't experimenting)
killing her liver every weekend(i stopped her one night and wasn't the BFF for several months)
boyfriends
fashion
jobs

this is just another phase/fad to her and in a month she'll forget why she's a vego


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

Lambert said:


> no, actually what i'm saying is that choose one or the other but don't make a habit of phasing. my BFF makes a habit of going through phases and so she is trying to get me to watch this program because it will change my mind where as i'm quite happy eating the food i do but i just don't want to hear her saying in a month how good the steak was. these are her past phases
> emo
> cutting parties
> her sexuality (no she wasn't experimenting)
> ...


 
so really your just ranting about your BFF?


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Lambert said:


> no, actually what i'm saying is that choose one or the other but don't make a habit of phasing. my BFF makes a habit of going through phases and so she is trying to get me to watch this program because it will change my mind where as i'm quite happy eating the food i do but i just don't want to hear her saying in a month how good the steak was. these are her past phases
> emo
> cutting parties - *** is that?
> her sexuality (no she wasn't experimenting) If she was doing things that she wouldn't normally, it is experimenting
> ...



....


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

I love broccoli


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Me too, except when old people cook it, because they overcook it....


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> no, actually what i'm saying is that choose one or the other but don't make a habit of phasing. my BFF makes a habit of going through phases and so she is trying to get me to watch this program because it will change my mind where as i'm quite happy eating the food i do but i just don't want to hear her saying in a month how good the steak was. these are her past phases
> emo
> cutting parties - *** is that? where people cut themselves in groups, depressive music, goes with the emo culture
> her sexuality (no she wasn't experimenting) If she was doing things that she wouldn't normally, it is experimenting
> ...





jazzy said:


> so really your just ranting about your BFF?


no, i'm not ranting! if i wanted to rant you'd know, no, i'm saying do such changes for the right reason but always remember the reason.


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

Lambert said:


> no, i'm not ranting! if i wanted to rant you'd know, no, i'm saying do such changes for the right reason but always remember the reason.


 
still dont understand why you posted this in the veggie thread? were not talking about phases...


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Maccas to Big-W aren't huge changes, and the RAAF is just stepping up. Sounds like you're jealous of your friend because she has a BF and got into the airforce...


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

wow weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

Haha I love the Lambert/KR show. Every thread you two meet in turns into a great read


----------



## Jazzz (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Maccas to Big-W aren't huge changes, and the RAAF is just stepping up. Sounds like you're jealous of your friend because she has a BF and got into the airforce...


 
and of course because she is now a vegetarian =] huuuge step up!! encourage her. Dont flame her on public forums...


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

saximus said:


> Haha I love the Lambert/KR show. Every thread you two meet in turns into a great read



I'm gunna steer clear of this thread... I just got the cane


----------



## saximus (May 31, 2011)

By the way Ashleigh have you tried cold broccoli salad? It's one of my favs at the moment



kawasakirider said:


> I'm gunna steer clear of this thread... I just got the cane


 
Haha aww don't go. I love it


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

yes yes i have ..so good. i love brussel sprouts haha


----------



## AshleighMarie (May 31, 2011)

what are we talking about here..who is single..who is taken...what what haha


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Also, I'm sorry for the accusation.


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

apology accepted


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

IDK??? when you discover the answer, lemme know yeah


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> How is it that can't Jesus spell?


 
What?


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

foolness instead of foolishness


----------



## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> What?



"_he gave up too please stop this foolness_"

Foolness? what in the holy sanctimonious crap is that?


----------



## kawasakirider (May 31, 2011)

Red-Ink said:


> "_he gave up too please stop this foolness_"
> 
> Foolness? what in the holy sanctimonious crap is that?


 
Where is this illiterate phantom post?


----------



## Red-Ink (May 31, 2011)

kawasakirider said:


> Where is this illiterate phantom post?



on the pic mate...


----------



## Defective (May 31, 2011)

nah they got deleted!


----------



## K3nny (Jun 1, 2011)

jazzv said:


> we've already gone through all the meat eaters trying to start an argument. If you dont actually have a constructive comment apart from 'meat is good, in my belly' its realllly unneeded at this point.
> 
> This is what im annoyed about... Its not even the vegos that start it. Its you guys disrespecting something that we feel strongly about


 
16 pages after a day? (give or take) wow...
ok, not trying to argue or anything, but just a few points for discussion's sake

1) going completely vegan means you'll miss some nutrients, including vitamins and protein. YES beans and stuff have some protein but structure wise it is quite different from the one you get from meat, not to mention the cocktail of nutrients that actually comes with meat is absent in veg alone

2) unless you go all out organic/sustainable, chances are the ecological damage is almost equal to that of conventional farming practices

3) theres alot on animal abuse, yes its bad, but when you keep them in decent conditions like some have pointed out (this is within aussie assuming general practices are humane, which i think it is), then how is this different than keeping a pet?

4) evolutionary-wise there is alot of evidence against going vego. Canines are one thing, another is our intestinal track as if we were designed to only eat greens (a ridiculous idea to begin with), we'd be able to digest cellulose for starters, and our appendix would be longer and actually usable
theres also some evidence that omega-3s (i.e. fish) in the diet helped increase our brain size into what it is today

now i'd like to hear your point of view (or anyone's really)


----------



## KaotikJezta (Jun 1, 2011)

jazzv said:


> there usually only $2 more at my woolies... and really $4 in the scheme of things anyway?


 Except free range eggs from woolies cannot be trusted to be free range, none of them are certified for a start, Coles has certified ones that cost $8.80 per carton.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah I didn't mean woolies brand... The smiley ones =]


----------



## saximus (Jun 1, 2011)

Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton

I'm going to answer these from a vege point of view (just to be argumentative ) 


K3nny said:


> 1) going completely vegan means you'll miss some nutrients, including vitamins and protein. YES beans and stuff have some protein but structure wise it is quite different from the one you get from meat, not to mention the cocktail of nutrients that actually comes with meat is absent in veg alone
> I agree that meat contains a very good mix of vitamins and minerals but if you get the right combination of veg you can come pretty close and a few of the girls here have already said that they don't suffer from and any health issues from lack of nutrients. Also when you consider how unhealthy we are as a society, I think you'll find most of us meat eaters don't eat enough veg to give us the rest of the vitamins we are supposed to have in our diets anyway.
> 
> 2) unless you go all out organic/sustainable, chances are the ecological damage is almost equal to that of conventional farming practices
> ...


 Anyway I hope that answers those questions until one of the actual veges comes along and provides something better.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 1, 2011)

saximus said:


> Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton
> 
> I'm going to answer these from a vege point of view (just to be argumentative )
> 
> Anyway I hope that answers those questions until one of the actual veges comes along and provides something better.



yeah that sounds good =] apart from number 3. Pigs are kept in disgusting conditions (worse then cattle) and they are smarter than dogs. Chickens are also kept in disgusting conditions! the only way you can make this argument is if you buy rspca approved chicken and bacon.

you dont keep a pet with the intention of ending its life for your own benefit - i know my pets are spoilt rotten and do not have their beaks clipped off or are forced to give birth standing up because they dont have enough room to lie on their side.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Jun 1, 2011)

saximus said:


> Do the RSPCA ones count? They're the ones I buy from Woolies and they're about $4.20 for a half dozen carton


No, I don't think they are certified either, can't think of the certified brand and I am pretty sure the RSPCA ones are PACE farms eggs and I wouldn't trust anything they sell. Pretty much, if a company sells cage eggs you can be pretty sure there free range eggs either are not free range or meet the bare minimum free range standard. I'm going to get my own chooks I think, that way I will be assured that they are looked after properly.


----------



## moosenoose (Jun 1, 2011)

There should be more vegans and vegetarians....with hope it'll bring the cost of meat down


----------



## AshleighMarie (Jun 1, 2011)

hmmmm this is still going i see


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 1, 2011)

kaotikjezta said:


> No, I don't think they are certified either, can't think of the certified brand and I am pretty sure the RSPCA ones are PACE farms eggs and I wouldn't trust anything they sell. Pretty much, if a company sells cage eggs you can be pretty sure there free range eggs either are not free range or meet the bare minimum free range standard. I'm going to get my own chooks I think, that way I will be assured that they are looked after properly.



go on homes for hens! =]

i really want to get some but i just dont have the room atm...


----------



## K3nny (Jun 1, 2011)

AshleighMarie said:


> hmmmm this is still going i see


 
if you mean constructive discussion, by all means 
+ this thread is good practice for my career path

conversely i have a book thats quite good and supports on going vego, the merits seem plausible (on a health point of view) but it is abit too extreme for my personal preference atm,mayble later on in life but yea
the book's called the China Study by Campbell and Campbell II, great read but on the heavy side if anyone's interested

and back to the discussion, 1) yes a mixture of veg (as opposed to a single type) does way better things, i agree, however in alot of cases (just going from memory on my lecture notes), no veg so far has a high enough content of vitamin B that is recommended. Closest to it i think is grains, and the highest levels are found in... red meat. If you do eat alot of the veg then i suppose it would make this argument invalid tho.

oh i think i should add, cz i'm not completely sure, im arguing more on vegans as opposed to vegetarians. Why? vegetarians do eat eggs and milk (i think thats the deffiniton), and both have an excellent amount of nutrients, eggs for one have all 20 of the essential amino acids

4) a longer appendix is found in most other herbivores as thats where they digest their cellulose (as you said, a rumen like organ), humans and many other omnivores have lost that ability because theres more foodstuffs that contain more nutrients which are easier to digest and not so expensive energy-wise like meat.
i'm quite surprised no one has checked on primates, if anything the greater primates (more notably chimps) should have a more similiar digestive track.


----------



## Jackrabbit (Jun 1, 2011)

jazzv said:


> im a vegetarian =] and i eat free range eggs and rennet free cheese. Mock all you want but if everyone was a vegetarian the world would be fed.



someone once said (maybe from this site), I eat the animals that contribute to global warming, vegos/vegans eat the plants that could stop it. who is doing the right thing?


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 1, 2011)

Jackrabbit said:


> someone once said (maybe from this site), I eat the animals that contribute to global warming, vegos/vegans eat the plants that could stop it. who is doing the right thing?


 
I don't understand how crops stop global warming? If you mean that land is cleared for them, the vast majority of that is for cattle grazing as the land is really infertile once the forest is removed


----------



## saximus (Jun 1, 2011)

He means because plants take in carbon dioxide Jazz


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah but crops aren't the solution to that... They take in co2 and then they are harvested and then more are planted which also take in co2. It's a cycle...


----------



## mattmc (Jun 2, 2011)

saximus said:


> If you believe in evolution etc. then it would make sense that we evolved to consume small amounts of meat that we could catch and kill. This would have meant that it wouldn't have been eaten every day or in the volume that we do now. I'm only eating it once or twice a week now because of the cost and it does seem to feel pretty



if you maintain this logic, it is also logical to assume that us as white european men (that is if you are white european) should not eat fruit during the winter months, should eat barely any fruit at all, as none of it is really native to europe.

now i dont believe in biblical fantasies either, i believe in evolution. europeans are not designed/never did grow up on a diet filled with fruits commonly

ps. i am a carnivore


----------



## moosenoose (Jun 2, 2011)

I stop the animals from eating YOUR plants! You should thank me


----------



## kawasakirider (Jun 2, 2011)

moosenoose said:


> i stop the animals from eating your plants! You should thank me :d


 
hahaha


----------



## saximus (Jun 2, 2011)

mattmc said:


> if you maintain this logic, it is also logical to assume that us as white european men (that is if you are white european) should not eat fruit during the winter months, should eat barely any fruit at all, as none of it is really native to europe.
> 
> now i dont believe in biblical fantasies either, i believe in evolution. europeans are not designed/never did grow up on a diet filled with fruits commonly
> 
> ps. i am a carnivore


 Finally an excuse for me not to eat fruit! 
I think you have to consider the time scales for that though. As homo sapiens I'd assume we would have evolved to eat something resembling fruits (obviously not the selectively bred ones we see today). Europeans aren't a different species to Africans so I think the time line is too short to say Europeans are significantly different in that area. I dunno though I could just be talking out of my butt. Also, I guess there are obvious health benefits to eating fruit whether we evolved to eat them or not whereas there are no proven health benefits (that I know of) for not eating meat in small proportions at least.


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm vegetarian (nearly 17 years), with no animal rennet in cheese and only my mum's awesome free-range eggs. When I eat out I try to avoid eggs and dairy but I'm not hardcore about it. I'm trying to lose dairy because of the bobby calf thing, with about 80% success (I fall off the wagon for sour cream and fetta, I suck..). I've worked and/or volunteered in sustainable farming (including rare breed animal farming for meat), animal welfare, organic agriculture, and animal rescue for many, many years. I know some really freaking cool, completely sane vegans who are awesome fun to be around (although I've met plenty of the other kind as well). I'm fit, healthy, I work on a farm, with horses, and as a tall ship sailor and rigger. I need to be fit and strong and energetic to do all that.
I love being vego; loved it from the word go (though I did have meat cravings for a bit while I adjusted to my new diet and learned to cook tasty meat-free food!), and though I say so myself, I'm a pretty good cook (you kinda have to be) - enough so that my meat-loving friends look forward to meals I make them. I try not to talk about it unless someone asks directly because I hate preachy vegos, they really give me the ****s, but it still stings when people make jokes about it because as xDragonx says, it's something I cared about enough to change my whole life for; I respect others' choices, but this isn't a joke to me. .


----------



## GeneticProject (Jun 2, 2011)

Does this mean u only feed you snakes Bok Choy.?

Sorry but I just can't fathom the fact that anyone on here can call themselves a full vegan, if they are In possession of snakes and reptiles that consume meat. To me this contradicts the beliefs of a true vegan. Snakes need nutrition from meat. And by feeding meat forms you are therefore supporting a carnivore Which you so passionately protest against.? Just my personal opinion.

Cheers Barf


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 2, 2011)

barf21 said:


> Does this mean u only feed you snakes Bok Choy.?
> 
> Sorry but I just can't fathom the fact that anyone on here can call themselves a full vegan, if they are In possession of snakes and reptiles that consume meat. To me this contradicts the beliefs of a true vegan. Snakes need nutrition from meat. And by feeding meat forms you are therefore supporting a carnivore Which you so passionately protest against.? Just my personal opinion.
> 
> Cheers Barf



i rationalize it in the way that the mice are kept in good conditions and are killed in a way i deem humane and pain free. I had a look at where the mice are kept and how they are killed before i bought them off the breeder =] 

but thats just me. Not sure if other people rationalize it differently?

they are also not causing global warming and devastating environmental degradation


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 2, 2011)

barf21 said:


> Does this mean u only feed you snakes Bok Choy.?
> 
> Sorry but I just can't fathom the fact that anyone on here can call themselves a full vegan, if they are In possession of snakes and reptiles that consume meat. To me this contradicts the beliefs of a true vegan. Snakes need nutrition from meat. And by feeding meat forms you are therefore supporting a carnivore Which you so passionately protest against.? Just my personal opinion.
> 
> Cheers Barf



I'm not a vegan (I know a bunch of them though) and if I can step in, I think there's a huge difference between contributing to the meat industry for humans, which is environmentally and ethically problematic, and feeding an animal which consumes meat which is produced in a more ethical fashion. I've known some haaaardcore vegans who won't allow any dead animal in their house whatsoever, and complain if others eat meat near them - but others I know make the choice for themselves only, not for their animals. That's certainly where I'm at as a vego-with-vegan-leanings. It's my choice not to contribute to an industry I cannot condone, but not my animals' choice, so my snakes eat rats, and my cats eat free range organic chicken from a small local farm. Part of my love of animals involves taking the very best care of the ones I have. It's hypocritical in some ways, I suppose, but it makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## Renenet (Jun 3, 2011)

I am an omnivore. I certainly understand the reasons people become vegetarian/vegan - I once tried to become vegetarian myself. Unfortunately, I just ended up making myself sick. My iron levels, which are naturally low to begin with, plummeted. 

Now, instead of cutting meat out entirely, I eat much smaller servings. For red meat I use kangaroo, on the theory that it's better for our local Aussie environment. I'm still working on finding an ethical option for white meats that I can afford.

The result is I feel much healthier and more energetic. So a meat-free diet isn't for everyone. I admire anyone who can thrive on one.


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 3, 2011)

Big yay for ethically-sourced meat! An ex-vegan/long-time vego friend of mine started eating small farm, rare-breed meat just after the GFC struck, because she figured that it would actually be *more* ethical to do so, given that these small farmers with their heritage animals would be the first to feel the pinch, and perhaps be driven out of business altogether, leaving meat production solely in the hands of the larger, unethical producers. The quality is much, much higher, too. 

In Melbourne, the farmers' markets are pretty good and there are a lot of them. Their white meat is fairly expensive though. I'm lucky in that my local butcher only sells free-range, sourced from small, local farms, and it's very reasonably priced. If you're interested in seafood, there's an ethical seafood guide been released online which is up-to-date and pretty comprehensive.



K3nny said:


> 16 pages after a day? (give or take) wow...
> ok, not trying to argue or anything, but just a few points for discussion's sake
> 
> 1) going completely vegan means you'll miss some nutrients, including vitamins and protein. YES beans and stuff have some protein but structure wise it is quite different from the one you get from meat, not to mention the cocktail of nutrients that actually comes with meat is absent in veg alone
> ...


 
I'm sposed to be in bed since I have work tomorrow, so this will be short, but you actually don't miss out on any nutrients whatsoever as a vego. I've researched this pretty thoroughly, and especially now there are more of us (when I went vego in '94 it was really hard to find food!), there are also more nutrition options available. Chia seed, for example, is an incredibly rich, sustainable source of Omega 3 and 6, in a preferable balance to that found in meat/fish, which can contribute to inflammation. It's also great for amino acids and complete protein. Same with quinoa. Both are tasty, and easy to use in cooking.

If I was at all interested in clinging to my evolutionary past, I'd also eschew other advances, such as living in houses, vaccinations, the internet, and brushing my teeth. But seriously, as Saximus says, there's research proving both sides. I'm frankly more interested in keeping myself healthy in the here and now. I've been vego for nearly 17 years, had blood tests and full medicals every year for the first five to make sure I was doing it right. I don't go to any effort to "balance" my diet, either, I just eat what I feel like. As I said in my earlier post, my job/s are physically-strenuous, outdoor jobs, which require me to be fit, healthy, strong, and have the sort of energy that means I can do a watch in a storm from midnight-4am, have 2 hours sleep, go aloft, teach trainees how to helm, and keep this up for a couple of weeks at a stretch. A vegan friend of mine is a paramedic who sails with Sea Shepherd. Vegos have reduced incidences of heart disease, obesity, most diet-related cancers, diabetes, etc. As for environmental issues, there's a decent document here, that footnotes its research: Eating Up The World. Added to this, the UN recently listed meat production as the leading contributor worldwide to global warming. Even without the benefits of sustainable farming, the production of plant crops which are suitable to the areas they're being farmed in is way less destructive than meat.

Basically, Sam Neill's lying to you. I find this a little sad, since I had a crush on him when I was 11 and he was Captain Starlight.


----------



## mayamaya (Jun 3, 2011)

I hate the thought of any animal being killed or hurt in any way, but I was raised in an eastern european family who are big on meat so its too natural for me now to give it up  I would love to become a vegetarian, and I respect anyone who has the strength and dedication to be one! & I'll admit the world WOULD be a better place for humans, animals And the environment if everyone was a vegetarian (including the animals! haha even though thats impossible) There would be much less animal cruelty and more world peace  (less need for anyone or anything to hunt or fight). Also I'm completely against animal cruelty and hate anyone who takes part in it so it pains me to feel like the hypocrite for eating the poor animals who were slaughtered to get to my dinner table  So I'm thankful there is strong people out there who we call vegetarians! XD


----------



## saximus (Jun 3, 2011)

Well so much for stepping out of this thread :/. I just can't help myself.
I don't think there is a need to go to the extreme of saying "no meat at all. Ever." I think it would be fine if we could just limit our consumption. That would limit the number of animals being farmed. It would mean every animal lives in better conditions. It would mean less stress for farmers. Less strain on the environment. Less of what the extremists call "cruelty" but the rest of us just call "efficiency". Less wasted meat (and therefore less animals killed for no reason)
This is all just a pipe dream though. Like communism, it would be great in theory but as soon as you put people in charge it goes to crap.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 3, 2011)

Naga_Kanya said:


> I'm sposed to be in bed since I have work tomorrow, so this will be short, but you actually don't miss out on any nutrients whatsoever as a vego. I've researched this pretty thoroughly, and especially now there are more of us (when I went vego in '94 it was really hard to find food!), there are also more nutrition options available. Chia seed, for example, is an incredibly rich, sustainable source of Omega 3 and 6, in a preferable balance to that found in meat/fish, which can contribute to inflammation. It's also great for amino acids and complete protein. Same with quinoa. Both are tasty, and easy to use in cooking.


 
had never even heard of this, thank you =]


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 3, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> had never even heard of this, thank you =]



Maybe we need a 'vego eating tips' thread. We can share recipes that even the meat-eaters can get into (you so don't have to be vego to enjoy the odd tasty meat-free meal, and like Saximus said, and I couldn't agree more, bringing meat down to sustainable levels is great for our health, the planet, and animal welfare), and it might help people like momo93 find it easier to eat less meat - and also nutrition-y stuff. I pick up a lot of useful stuff because I have a heap of vego/vegan friends, I work in permaculture, and so I find this stuff out without having to go to too much effort.


----------



## Laghairt (Jun 3, 2011)

I can also attest to the fact that meat is definitley not necessary to lead a healthy active life. There are plenty of famous vegan athletes including my wife who has represented Australia in two different sports and made a final at the Beijing Olympics as a vegetarian. 




Naga_Kanya said:


> I've researched this pretty thoroughly, and especially now there are more of us (when I went vego in '94 it was really hard to find food!), there are also more nutrition options available. Chia seed, for example, is an incredibly rich, sustainable source of Omega 3 and 6, in a preferable balance to that found in meat/fish, which can contribute to inflammation. It's also great for amino acids and complete protein. Same with quinoa. Both are tasty, and easy to use in cooking.
> 
> If I was at all interested in clinging to my evolutionary past, I'd also eschew other advances, such as living in houses, vaccinations, the internet, and brushing my teeth. But seriously, as Saximus says, there's research proving both sides. I'm frankly more interested in keeping myself healthy in the here and now. I've been vego for nearly 17 years, had blood tests and full medicals every year for the first five to make sure I was doing it right. I don't go to any effort to "balance" my diet, either, I just eat what I feel like. As I said in my earlier post, my job/s are physically-strenuous, outdoor jobs, which require me to be fit, healthy, strong, and have the sort of energy that means I can do a watch in a storm from midnight-4am, have 2 hours sleep, go aloft, teach trainees how to helm, and keep this up for a couple of weeks at a stretch. A vegan friend of mine is a paramedic who sails with Sea Shepherd. Vegos have reduced incidences of heart disease, obesity, most diet-related cancers, diabetes, etc. As for environmental issues, there's a decent document here, that footnotes its research: Eating Up The World. Added to this, the UN recently listed meat production as the leading contributor worldwide to global warming. Even without the benefits of sustainable farming, the production of plant crops which are suitable to the areas they're being farmed in is way less destructive than meat.
> 
> Basically, Sam Neill's lying to you. I find this a little sad, since I had a crush on him when I was 11 and he was Captain Starlight.


----------



## K3nny (Jun 3, 2011)

Naga_Kanya said:


> I'm sposed to be in bed since I have work tomorrow, so this will be short, but you actually don't miss out on any nutrients whatsoever as a vego. I've researched this pretty thoroughly, and especially now there are more of us (when I went vego in '94 it was really hard to find food!), there are also more nutrition options available. Chia seed, for example, is an incredibly rich, sustainable source of Omega 3 and 6, in a preferable balance to that found in meat/fish, which can contribute to inflammation. It's also great for amino acids and complete protein. Same with quinoa. Both are tasty, and easy to use in cooking.
> 
> If I was at all interested in clinging to my evolutionary past, I'd also eschew other advances, such as living in houses, vaccinations, the internet, and brushing my teeth. But seriously, as Saximus says, there's research proving both sides. I'm frankly more interested in keeping myself healthy in the here and now. I've been vego for nearly 17 years, had blood tests and full medicals every year for the first five to make sure I was doing it right. I don't go to any effort to "balance" my diet, either, I just eat what I feel like. As I said in my earlier post, my job/s are physically-strenuous, outdoor jobs, which require me to be fit, healthy, strong, and have the sort of energy that means I can do a watch in a storm from midnight-4am, have 2 hours sleep, go aloft, teach trainees how to helm, and keep this up for a couple of weeks at a stretch. A vegan friend of mine is a paramedic who sails with Sea Shepherd. Vegos have reduced incidences of heart disease, obesity, most diet-related cancers, diabetes, etc. As for environmental issues, there's a decent document here, that footnotes its research: Eating Up The World. Added to this, the UN recently listed meat production as the leading contributor worldwide to global warming. Even without the benefits of sustainable farming, the production of plant crops which are suitable to the areas they're being farmed in is way less destructive than meat.
> 
> Basically, Sam Neill's lying to you. I find this a little sad, since I had a crush on him when I was 11 and he was Captain Starlight.


 
perhaps, and perhaps not. you've gotta keep in mind not everyone has the same/similiar body systems as you, yes theres alot on this thread that may have eaten their fill into a healthy lifestyle, however generalization based from a number (i assume to be) lower than 30 is statistically unreliable, its not exactly for everyone. 

Case in point: French vegans charged with child neglect after baby's death - Telegraph
granted their other daughter had no other issues, thus this is really open to speculation.

and again, meat protein and vegetable protein are not exactly the same, the amino acid compositions are quite different, if it was the tofu i eat would probably have a similiar texture to meat (although i'm a total sucker for soy based products like tofu n tempeh, but also in moderation, phytoestrogens...)

In other countries i should point out, eating meat does not mean eating a hunk of steak the way we perceive it here. A lecturer of mine went to visit a sheep herder somewhere in mediterania. For 20 people in the family, the amount of meat used in the food was no more than a cup, its not a central part of the diet, but used more of a flavoring agent/condiment. All 20 were healthy, active individuals. Really puts into perspective what we consider a "balanced diet"

having said that, it is very easy to just pop a supplement IF needed, no biggie, you get your complete nutritional requirement, everyones happy.

On sustainable and ethically produced meats, i'm all for it. Its better for the animal, and theres heaps of evidence animals that are raised well become darn tastier too.


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 3, 2011)

K3nny said:


> perhaps, and perhaps not. you've gotta keep in mind not everyone has the same/similiar body systems as you, yes theres alot on this thread that may have eaten their fill into a healthy lifestyle, however generalization based from a number (i assume to be) lower than 30 is statistically unreliable, its not exactly for everyone.
> 
> In other countries i should point out, eating meat does not mean eating a hunk of steak the way we perceive it here. A lecturer of mine went to visit a sheep herder somewhere in mediterania. For 20 people in the family, the amount of meat used in the food was no more than a cup, its not a central part of the diet, but used more of a flavoring agent/condiment. All 20 were healthy, active individuals. Really puts into perspective what we consider a "balanced diet"
> 
> ...



I agree, but another contributing factor is the lack of education about eating good meat-free food. Meat's such a huge part of our culture that many simply don't know what to eat without it, and end up nutritionally starving themselves eating pasta and steamed broccoli day after day. If we ate a more varied diet we'd have the know-how to live healthier with less meat. I agree with you about overseas meat usage, too; I grew up in a few different countries around Asia, and meat isn't the centre of people's lives like it is here; as you say it's used mostly as a flavouring. If our omnivores ate small quantities of sustainably-produced, excellent quality meat, it would be better for absolutely everyone, and we'd retain the biodiversity of our rare breeds as well. I'm too sooky to eat animals, but I favour the mostly-vego omnivore model as an ideal. As it is we chug down enormous quantities of horrifically unsustainable, cruelly-produced, poor-quality meat that's killing us and the planet. I know people who eat nearly 2kg of the stuff a day, as the central focus of all three meals. Mental.

I find it weird that it's also really tied in with a culture of machismo, that 'a man needs meat'. It's all marketing, and cleverly done, but funny because it's not like these guys are hunting and killing their own meat, they're buying it pre-packaged from supermarkets, and women need the iron more than men do.

As for the different protein structures, that's not always in meat's favour. Meat may be a good protein source, but it's not perfect, and many plant foods like quinoa, acorns, etc, are complete proteins which are easily assimilated. The omegas we get from Chia are better than those in fish, for example. Amino acids are found in abundance throughout the plant kingdom. I'm very aware I've been physiologically lucky with going vego, but I attribute a lot of that to growing up in environments that didn't make me dependent on meat and taught me how to cook a heap of varied stuff without it, so I wasn't simply trying to cook meat dishes with the meat taken out. There are whole communities in various parts of Asia that have been vego for centuries, and have excellent overall health.


----------



## saximus (Jun 3, 2011)

I have some anecdotal evidence I thought I'd share. As I said earlier I have cut down a fair bit on my meat lately and hadn't had a steak for weeks until last night. For the last week I've felt really tired and lethargic. Even getting my eight hours it was a struggle getting out of bed. However, this morning after only about five or six hours sleep I felt fantastic. Pretty much jumped out of bed. Now obviously this is only anecdotal like I said but I can't think of anything else I did/ate yesterday that would have brought on such a swift improvement


----------



## kawasakirider (Jun 3, 2011)

That's what I am thinking, sax. With my diet I try to get as much protein into me as I can, and go to the gym often. My energy levels have improved dramatically. I'd be inclined to say I'd hibernate as a vegetarian/vegan.


----------



## moosenoose (Jun 3, 2011)

If you saw a cow in there eating your delicious parsnips it'd make you angry wouldn't it??? WOULDN'T IT!!!???? ......


----------



## Chris1 (Jun 3, 2011)

i was vego for about 15 years, i slept about 14 hours a day, was always tired and lethargic,...

i started eating meat again in moderation a few years ago, and ive never felt better,...!!


----------



## moosenoose (Jun 3, 2011)

Never trust a woman who doesn't like meat! :lol:


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 3, 2011)

Chris1 said:


> i was vego for about 15 years, i slept about 14 hours a day, was always tired and lethargic,...
> 
> i started eating meat again in moderation a few years ago, and ive never felt better,...!!


 
you were probably anemic... did you get blood tests? i was like that when i first cut meat out but got blood tested and started eating a more balanced diet as i learnt to cook better vego meals. Still get a blood test every 3 months (for giving blood so not because i think im anemic) and ive been above average with no supplements


----------



## Chris1 (Jun 3, 2011)

i did once, and apparently my iron levels were fine,....

i didnt use supplements either,..and probably could have gone to more effort in the diet department,....


----------



## Bez84 (Jun 3, 2011)

I eat red meat cause sam neill told me to... Red meat gave him the energy to do the dance in the ad..


----------



## Inspiration (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm an ovo-vegetarian. So is my daughter. We only eat eggs from a friend's rescue chickens. If she has none for us we don't have eggs either.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 3, 2011)

Inspiration said:


> I'm an ovo-vegetarian. So is my daughter. We only eat eggs from a friend's rescue chickens. If she has none for us we don't have eggs either.


 
i hope your eating more than eggs?lol

whats an ovo vegetarian?


----------



## Inspiration (Jun 3, 2011)

newtolovingsnake said:


> i hope your eating more than eggs?lol
> 
> whats an ovo vegetarian?



I meant they are the only type we eat lol.

Ovo-vegetarian is pretty much vegan + eggs so no animal milk. I've been vego for 31 years now with about 7 years of being vegan. My daughter was vegan til 2 when she had her first eggs and vegetarian (but no animal milk) since then.


----------



## Sezzzzzzzzz (Jun 3, 2011)

Inspiration said:


> I meant they are the only type we eat lol.
> 
> Ovo-vegetarian is pretty much vegan + eggs so no animal milk. I've been vego for 31 years now with about 7 years of being vegan. My daughter was vegan til 2 when she had her first eggs and vegetarian (but no animal milk) since then.


 
thanks for explaining that for me


----------



## Inspiration (Jun 3, 2011)

We are healthy and active too! Never lethargic and rarely get sick


----------



## Darlyn (Jun 3, 2011)

"As it is we chug down enormous quantities of horrifically unsustainable, cruelly-produced, poor-quality meat that's killing us and the planet. I know people who eat nearly 2kg of the stuff a day, as the central focus of all three meals. Mental."

Why are you saying our meat is cruelly produced? Hasn't it been clarified that Australian meat is not?
What makes you think it is poor quality?
If anyone truly does eat 2kg of meat a day it is certainly not the norm and would be a very expensive diet.


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Jun 3, 2011)

I'd also imagine whoever ate meat three times a day would be backed up like the Bruce highway during christmas break ;D

(Also, for those in QLD, there's a fantastic company called Barambah who produce ethical dairy products. You pay more, but the quality is right up there along with the taste.)


----------



## Defective (Jun 3, 2011)

Bez84 said:


> I eat red meat cause sam neill told me to... Red meat gave him the energy to do the dance in the ad..


 
hehehe i love that ad.


----------



## Jacobxvx (Jun 3, 2011)

AshleighMarie, if your keen to meet vegans/veges, check out www.unleashed.org.au

I think alot of the people commenting on this actually need to do some research on a plant-based diet, and the many benefits it brings, read a book such as the china study. And maybe even research the australian factory farms etc, you have all the resources at the tip of your fingers, 90% of you will be shocked at what you find. The rise in Degenerative disease and the rise in animal-product consumption are not a coincidence


----------



## Defective (Jun 3, 2011)

hmmmm, yet i have never broken a bone (by fault of my own anyway)! i ran into a glass door but no broken nose, had a seizur and fell over whacked my head on a door frame and hit my mandible joint...no break, all because i drink milk which has calcium in it. go figure. 

actually i have incredible bone density for my age and was told that if i were to eat a vegetarian diet i wouldn't have it for long because of how my body is built and my system requirements.


----------



## Megzz (Jun 3, 2011)

To be honest I really couldn't be bothered being vegan. Too hard to avoid eggs, dairy etc in my opinion.


----------



## Twitch_80 (Jun 3, 2011)

I dont have a problem with either but they should let places know when they book for dinner/function etc, on the night is a real pain. To the people who say they are allergic to things when they are ordering and actually just dont like it, Id like to feed your your own foot.


----------



## Adzo (Jun 3, 2011)

Jacobxvx said:


> AshleighMarie, if your keen to meet vegans/veges, check out www.unleashed.org.au
> 
> I think alot of the people commenting on this actually need to do some research on a plant-based diet, and the many benefits it brings, read a book such as the china study. And maybe even research the australian factory farms etc, you have all the resources at the tip of your fingers, 90% of you will be shocked at what you find. The rise in Degenerative disease and the rise in animal-product consumption are not a coincidence


Try replacing "animal-product" in your last sentence with "trans-fat loaded, fructose laden, over-processed, nutritionally void, empty carbohydrate 'foods'."
Seriously.


----------



## KaotikJezta (Jun 3, 2011)

The health problems that vegetarians suffer when they do comes from not eating properly, not the fact that the don't eat meat. When you are vegetarian you need to ensure that you balance proteins and other essential things. Eating something rich in say iron, is no good unless you ensure it can be metabolised properly which often means eating it with something else to facilitate iron absorption. The biggest mistake vegetarians/vegans make is either eating only vegetables with no legumes etc or eating legumes/grains of only one sort. You need to eat say beans and rice in one serving to balance proteins. There are books written on it and I am sure you could use google to find out more, but in my 15 years of vegetarianism the only time I ever got unhealthy is when I got lazy with my food. It si a bit of an effort to eat properly but it can be done.


----------



## Twitch_80 (Jun 3, 2011)

A lot of what your body needs and what diet can be healthy actually depends on your blood type. O tends to need meat the most through to AB which needs it the least. O being the oldest type and AB being the newest.


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 3, 2011)

Twitch_80 said:


> A lot of what your body needs and what diet can be healthy actually depends on your blood type. O tends to need meat the most through to AB which needs it the least. O being the oldest type and AB being the newest.


 
I'm blood type O  haven't had meat in years and years, and favored fine as a vegan too.

(I do know you're just generally speaking  )


----------



## Twitch_80 (Jun 3, 2011)

Yeah Im not looking to argue, my ex was a vegie, already had my lesson lol. Its actually serious but thats not saying its bad, just means if your an O you would have to have a better diet as a vegie that if you were say an AB vegie, if that makes sense. So people who are vegies and dont make the effort to include what they need in their diet are more likely to suffer if they are O. I should be anti vegie after being a chef for years hahaha but Im not, as I said before its the people who just say they are allergic for the sake of it that bug me. I couldnt go without meat but Im getting really picky on where I get it and how its produced.


----------



## Fangus (Jun 3, 2011)

To answer your simple question .... I'm vegetarian ... Thanks for asking Ashleigh ..


----------



## David275 (Jun 3, 2011)




----------



## Crystal..Discus (Jun 3, 2011)

Jacobxvx said:


> A\ read a book such as the china study


 
This book has been rejected by the scientific community as a whole. It makes claims with no studies to back it, and the studies they do use they pick selective parts of (the best example I can think of is his reference to rectal cancer, referring to one study that looked into the instances of a particular cancer amongst every religious denomination. It tried inferring that animal fat was responsible, but Mormons, who are forbidden to drink and smoke, showed just as little instance of the supposed to link to rectal cancer as a vegan/vegetarians.) It fails to objectively present all information and data collected correctly, makes no mention of "previous" studies which he compares his own findings to, and ignores all current research and valid scientific findings.

The problem is that red meat - or meat of any kind is the problem - it's that we live in a society of want and greed. We refuse moderation in favour of eating what tastes good, regardless of dietary value. And the "rise" of degenerative disease is also attributed to our growing ability to diagnose those diseases, as well as disgusting habits such as drinking and smoking excessively.


----------



## Adzo (Jun 3, 2011)

Twitch_80 said:


> I dont have a problem with either but they should let places know when they book for dinner/function etc, on the night is a real pain. To the people who say they are allergic to things when they are ordering and actually just dont like it, Id like to feed your your own foot.


I was going to say this a few days ago, but in my experience it usually falls on deaf ears.
Last Friday. 8 o'clock, service is in full swing. Beautiful organised chaos. A risotto comes back to the kitchen. I ask what is wrong and I am informed by the waiter that that the customer is vegan and that the risotto has been garnished with cheese so therefore she cannot eat it. Nevermind that risotto by DEFINITION is "highly absorbent Italian short grained rice (commonly Arborio, though Vialone Nano and Carnaroli are far superior), lightly cooked in butter, deglazed with wine, allowed to absorb stock to finish cooking(animal, vegetable or mineral), then bound with cheese." 

Also, the next time so vegetarian/vegan tells me about the environmental destruction caused by my carnivorous activities while smoking and/or drinking someone is going to have to hold me back.
Yes, I know entire ecosystems are destroyed so that I may enjoy meat, but if you have such a hard-on for stopping, and not just limiting, environmental destruction should it not also apply to tobacco, barley, wheat, sugar cane, agave, grapes, etc.?


----------



## Crystal..Discus (Jun 3, 2011)

Refusal to self educate with unbiased material is a bitch I'm afraid. Like politics, we cling to the idea that this is what we believe in, therefore it must be right.


----------



## mattmc (Jun 4, 2011)

those saying we should limit our consumption of meat, well you can, ill eat your share though =]


----------



## AshleighMarie (Jun 4, 2011)

David275 said:


> As a beef farmer's son i can only say that the only reasons i can see someone becoming a vegan is that:
> 1. They eat only vegetables not because they love animals, but because they hate vegetables or;
> 2. They have no testicles


 
what the


and i'm kind of glad i have no testicles...


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 4, 2011)

David275 said:


> As a beef farmer's son i can only say that the only reasons i can see someone becoming a vegan is that:
> 1. They eat only vegetables not because they love animals, but because they hate vegetables or;
> 2. They have no testicles


 
I somewhat like this comment,

I think an important thing to be noted (and I'm sure you can hopefully agree...) as pointed out as a result of current media events, farmers deeply care for their animals too. They're not monsters wanting to slay animals for fun. With the recent debate of protecting animals being sent overseas, an overwhelming amount of beef farmers (amongst other livestock farmers) called ABC talkback radio to express that they too care for their animals wellbeing; something I don't think the public believes for whatever retarded reason.

I think people should go watch "Jimmys Farm". Clearly every farm isn't like this, but it's a humbling example of mans relationship with our meat. 

Good people and their practices shouldn't be ignored or punished for what others do. 

It's one thing to not like what meat _is_ (like myself), it's another thing entirely to not like _where it comes from_ (supplier/farmer etc). Ultimately, one of those things can change, the other cannot.


I personally can't justify the consumption of meat for myself, I watched a rabbit get skinned alive when I was 4 (I clearly wasn't MEANT too see that), and ever since I can't stomach it on MY plate. But I can more than see peoples reasons for eating it too. 

Not for "health", but for culture, for memories, for enjoyment and because that's what higher predators do; we eat things.
People over complicate things when we forget that we are, in essence, an animal the same as everything else.

I don't believe it's a practice that should be eradicated (meat eating/farming); it's not even a practice that is plausable to eradicate.
All we can do is scale it back down to the way it once was; a respectful practice.

Really don't get why vego's/meat eaters can't just get past it...shutup, and move on. It's certainly not something that always has to be on the table; just stop talking about it and everyone is happy.
You can't force someone to listen to you dribble on about religion...why can we/do we/should we force people to listen to dietary views.

I likely seem as though I'm fighting against vegetarianism...in reality, I'm just so sick to death of Vego's and their FRICKEN SOAPBOXES.



As for the Vegetarians and having carnivore pets thing;
Not all Vegetarians do so because they love animals...I actually have a friend who won't eat meat because she hates animals. She doesn't want too hurt them, she just doesn't want them anywhere near her including on her plate. 
Some don't like the taste, some can't afford it, some have religious reasons etc.
But even people who care for animals can still keep meat eating pets.

The thing about this is, humans can survive without meat. Plain and simple, they can; Doesn't mean they choose too or want too, but they can. This is also a decision they make for THEMSELVES (well..except for the annoying soapboxers mentioned earlier)

To deprive an animal of meat, e.g. snakes, is cruel. It denies it the nutrition it REQUIRES to survive, and it is selfish as you're deciding you don't like it and there for it can't occur. 
Other animals CAN'T survive without meat, so in order to care for them you must supply this.
Although I must admit to finding it odd that people who insist on forcing their vego views on other humans keep meat eating animals...if you can't respect a humans individuality and needs, I don't know how or why you can/do respect another animals.

There was an episode of Animal Cops once where a vegan woman tried to make her cat vegan by feeding it rice and flour...clearly we shouldn't all adopt that idea. Because it is cruel (amongst other things).


----------



## daniel1234 (Jun 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> I have a friend who just converted to veganism. I swear he turned nuts virtually overnight as soon as he changed



So true.
I worked with alot of vegans, and they are mental health workers--two really dangerous combinations.
Why cant people just be normal and keep snakes.


----------



## borntobnude (Jun 4, 2011)

if we all stopped eating so much processed white flour - and its products --white bread ,pasta etc and white rice most of the worlds "new"health problems would dissapear in a year . it s not the red meat thats killing uss but all the crap we put with it!!!!


----------



## saximus (Jun 4, 2011)

I love that this conversation has become somewhat more civilised and intelligent. Crystal and Casey if I could like your posts I would but I'm on tapatalk. You guys make some fantastic points. 
Talking about my crazy friend, I had a renewed vigour to argue against one of the million videos he posts on Facebook about veganism and animal cruelty. I basically ended up being likened to a religious faithful who had been brought up as a carnist and I am just unable to see how "ignorant and blind" I am because of my "faith". I guess you can see the irony in this. I could anyway


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> I love that this conversation has become somewhat more civilised and intelligent. Crystal and Casey if I could like your posts I would but I'm on tapatalk. You guys make some fantastic points.
> Talking about my crazy friend, I had a renewed vigour to argue against one of the million videos he posts on Facebook about veganism and animal cruelty. I basically ended up being likened to a religious faithful who had been brought up as a carnist and I am just unable to see how "ignorant and blind" I am because of my "faith". I guess you can see the irony in this. I could anyway



why thank you Saximus  to be honest, knowing you're posting in here is the only thing that got me to come back and read this thread I was preying would die a LONG time ago.... Soapboxing really just does my head in -______-

But anyway...back to being civilized 

The thing with those videos, is like any campaign video; be it against smoking, over drinking, speeding etc...Everyone knows all about it, everyone knows for example that smoking will give you cancer and the only people the campaign will stop smoking are those who already didn't plan too...it won't change those who already do. I feel meat is the same.
Sounds like you're friend is one of my beloved soapboxers ;P

I tried to find a good video of Jimmys Farm on YouTube but there weren't any. It is however an amazing show, I used to watch it every week. It's a BBC production and certainly worth anyone doubting the farmers ethics looking into. 

I truly believe it's a touchy topic like any other, and it should never be discussed unless someone first hand asks you about it.

hahaha why does everyone think vegans are crazy?
I was vegan for a few years, makes me wonder if I lost my mind  (certainly lost my fair share of dates who got scared hahaha)


----------



## saximus (Jun 4, 2011)

Haha thank you. I was supposed to step out and leave poor Ash's thread but just can't help myself. 
Yeah you're obviously a crack pot . 
I haven't seen this Jimmy's farm but I watched another BBC show called Kill it, Cook it, Eat it which I thought was just fantastic. 
I guess I just don't like people who say the industry is cruel and stuff when they haven't seen a clean slaughterhouse being run. Of course people will break the law and treat some of them cruelly but to me that's kind of like saying people speed so nobody should be allowed to drive. The rule breakers should be punished for breaking the rules but it shouldn't stop the people who treat them with respect. 
Anyway I'll step down from the soapbox now


----------



## Wally (Jun 4, 2011)

Unintentional things happen in abattoirs which may be viewed as cruel, with large amounts of stock penned in tight quarters it's inevitable.


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 4, 2011)

ultimately farmers don't want their animals going to those places, they don't spend time and money raising animals so someone can disrespect them.
if anyone has ever read "Eating Animals" (title refers to how we eat animals for memories etc) by Jonathan Safran-Foer, he mentions how farmers want to send their animals to family slaughterhouses where they know animals will be treated well, but thanks to the consumers wanting things as cheap as we can get them, these places get shut down, and they no longer have the privilege of running things how they want. The town I live in for example has....had, an abattoir, that had to shut down.
So ultimately, I guess vegetarians would do a better job if we ate ethically sourced meat rather than not eating it at all. As ultimately I guess we too are destroying what could be a humane industry, and meat eating will NEVER stop.

lol...wouldn't the meat eater I'm seeing be proud O____O 

ahh I haven't seen that one... I'll add it too my list 
Now we've both given each other homework!


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 4, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> I somewhat like this comment,
> 
> I think an important thing to be noted (and I'm sure you can hopefully agree...) as pointed out as a result of current media events, farmers deeply care for their animals too. They're not monsters wanting to slay animals for fun. With the recent debate of protecting animals being sent overseas, an overwhelming amount of beef farmers (amongst other livestock farmers) called ABC talkback radio to express that they too care for their animals wellbeing; something I don't think the public believes for whatever retarded reason.
> 
> ...


 
im sorry but this is ridiculous... 

we are not only talking about cattle. They are treated more humanely then the other produce animals. Chickens and pigs are kept in horrific conditions - defend that. I have seen first hand how they are kept, im not talking about how they are killed. 

oh and we have all made the point that our animals are fed meat. Mine are fed free range chicken and beef and my snake is fed mice that i have seen the living and killing conditions of. 

really dont understand how you can say farmers care about their animals when they are kept like this


----------



## saximus (Jun 4, 2011)

You're right that pork and chicken industry seems to be lagging behind the beef industry but I think supporting the ones who are doing the right thing (ie free range) sends just as clear a message as boycotting the entire industry completely


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 4, 2011)

Jazzz said:


> im sorry but this is ridiculous...
> 
> we are not only talking about cattle. They are treated more humanely then the other produce animals. Chickens and pigs are kept in horrific conditions - defend that. I have seen first hand how they are kept, im not talking about how they are killed.
> 
> ...


 
and why on earth would any farmer bother to keep their chickens/pigs nicely when you disregard it?
some people do something wrong and that means everyone does?
No one is ever going to give the good guys credit, and because of that the bad ones will win. Plain and simple. Because people will forget and ignore that better farmers exist.

you know what? shock tactics don't work. Show me every bloody picture or piece of writing you want, I've seen it all. I think it's pathetic to use shock tactics to try and convert someone.

so, I'd argue that you're being ridiculous.


The industry is never, NEVER, going to end. and so, the best that can be done is supporting those who run the industry right. Not sit there and accuse them of torture they don't practice and hence causing smaller businesses to fall under and the businesses you're actually talking about to prevail.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 4, 2011)

vampstorso said:


> and why on earth would any farmer bother to keep their chickens/pigs nicely when you disregard it?
> some people do something wrong and that means everyone does?
> No one is ever going to give the good guys credit, and because of that the bad ones will win. Plain and simple. Because people will forget and ignore that better farmers exist.
> 
> ...


 
im not trying to convert you. Im saying that not all farmers care about their animals, especially chickens and pigs. I do support free range produce - i feed it to my animals. 

The vast majority of products people eat come from these inhumane farms so i think its a very valid point to make for those who dont eat all free range product.


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 4, 2011)

you can't "convert" me anyway. I've been vegetarian 10 years.

But forcing people into pictures or horrifying stores would just put them off the topic completely. e.g. if someone shoved a bible in your face...you're going to think they're crazy and not listen. Same with this topic.


That's a different point completely, and I can agree with you on that, about offering the better alternative of free range.
But to seemingly ignore that there are good people out there is what was bothering me.
I'm from the country, as in, actual paddocks for miles sort of country, and I know there are plenty of caring farmers out there, just consumers and governments make their lives hard by ignoring that.


----------



## K3nny (Jun 4, 2011)

saximus said:


> You're right that pork and chicken industry seems to be lagging behind the beef industry but I think supporting the ones who are doing the right thing (ie free range) sends just as clear a message as boycotting the entire industry completely


 
technically the term "free range can be used/iterpreted very losely, also varies between countries (+ also depends if the company involved actually cares, note not all are like this but yea, food for thought)
some countries, like the European Union have good guidelines
others, not so much







and yes, that is "technically" free range, just because they are not in a "cage"


----------



## carterd (Jun 4, 2011)

When i was a 3, with 4 older siblings, lived on a sheep farm. 
We foster cared a orphaned lamb that we bottle fed every day.
The family pet became a sheep which we adored. 
One evening we sat down for dinner which Mum had prepared,
"what are we eating, this yum" my brother said, 
Dad replied "we are eating Dolly" the pet sheep.
True story. As you can imagine the trauma that followed, as we couldn't leave the table untill we had finished.

Vegetarian, just make sure you are getting a good source of Protein.
Because Protein is the most important nutrition.
Also be aware that, in a nutshell, we need to consume Alkalizing foods. very important, Google it.
Go back to being Hunters and gatherers, would solve some issues.


----------



## Naga_Kanya (Jun 4, 2011)

That happened to my sister. She used to care for the pigs at our school; one day, without telling the students, they were sent away to slaughter. She came home, traumatised, and by the worst possible coincidence, my mother served pork that night. Mum told my sister she wasn't leaving the table until she'd eaten it, and finally conceded defeat at midnight. We're stubborn in my family.

Protein's awesome and heaps easier to get these days for vegos. So are alkalising foods (done my research there, too - in fact, meat is very acidic, so fruits and vegies - some of them - really help there).

Guys who are complaining about vegos 'soapboxing' - I don't think it's intentional - this thread pretty much did ask, and we were simply responding to people who were saying it's pointless. We think there's enough of a point to have changed our lives for it, so a response was necessary. I don't preach unless it's within context ie. someone asks why I'm vego, or brings up vegetarianism to knock it. I also hate shock tactics. I support free range (genuinely free-range), small holding, and heritage meats - I work in the industry and I think they're important. I try to encourage meat-eaters to at least try them, because I'm told they're a hundred times tastier and a better product ethically. Many farmers *do* care for their animals, but for the layperson who doesn't live in to country and personally know their producer, it's impossible to tell, and when you see stuff like the live export issues, you really have to wonder how much those farmers care. Australia is way behind the rest of the world in terms of how we treat pigs and chickens, too.

A great big tip of the hat from me to all the omnivores who've responded and source ethical meat, and the meat-lovers who've been civil. So many aren't (and make stupid remarks about lacking testicles, etc). You guys rock.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Jun 5, 2011)

Some people are too quick to make sweeping generalisations about things they know only a little about. And they then want to defend such statements when they are challenged. Might I suggest that any given individual’s contributions would be viewed with much greater respect if they stayed within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding. And should one wish to have more impact than this allows, do the research, expand your limits.

Blue


----------



## K3nny (Jun 6, 2011)

carterd said:


> When i was a 3, with 4 older siblings, lived on a sheep farm.
> We foster cared a orphaned lamb that we bottle fed every day.
> The family pet became a sheep which we adored.
> One evening we sat down for dinner which Mum had prepared,
> ...



happened to me with a chicken
thought it was gonna be one of the family in my ever expanding menagerie of previous pets

well, that was until we had fried chicken for dinner
as i was munching on a drumstick, i asked where's our chook cause he was pretty active/flighty
my dad proceeded to say i was in fact eating it.....

2nd time it happened with a pair of ducks i had, one was allegedlly carried away by strong winds and the other was killed because the neighbour's hens had contracted fowl pox (the chicken's version of, uh... chicken pox...) and it was a shame if the duck got it too & went to waste... go figure :|
in this case tho we had someone who was duck-sitting for us, so i did not witness the whole thing per se, but yea, was a bawling wreck nevertheless

all this before puberty too.....


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Jun 6, 2011)

I am astounded at how insensitive parents can be at times. I guess they just don’t understand the trauma that can cause. It would seem they find it funny but you have got to wonder about the real cost of their self-amusement when it sticks in someone else’s memory for a lifetime. Those reading who are or will be parents of young children – please take note! 

Blue


----------



## K3nny (Jun 8, 2011)

Bluetongue1 said:


> I am astounded at how insensitive parents can be at times. I guess they just don’t understand the trauma that can cause. It would seem they find it funny but you have got to wonder about the real cost of their self-amusement when it sticks in someone else’s memory for a lifetime. Those reading who are or will be parents of young children – please take note!
> 
> Blue


 
depends really, personally i don't find it insensitive nor do i think they perceive great joy from seeing lil ol me cry. The animals (well the chicken really) was intended for food in the first place.

Puts alot into perspective how we get meat on the table, i've seen chickens having their heads cut clean with a cleaver, goats put up for sacrifice and other stuff, which personally would be preferable than being ignorant on how the food industry works.

If i was to be shielded and protected from every single thing that happens in this world i'd be a sad sap by now from being unable to cope.

*note i still eat meat regardless, pretty much infered from the statement above, just to be clear


----------



## Mayo (Jun 8, 2011)

K3nny I think a lot of people are ignorant as to how the food they eat gets to there table, and firmly believe that a better education in these matters would be beneficial to all.


----------



## Jazzz (Jun 8, 2011)

K3nny said:


> depends really, personally i don't find it insensitive nor do i think they perceive great joy from seeing lil ol me cry. The animals (well the chicken really) was intended for food in the first place.
> 
> Puts alot into perspective how we get meat on the table, i've seen chickens having their heads cut clean with a cleaver, goats put up for sacrifice and other stuff, which personally would be preferable than being ignorant on how the food industry works.
> 
> If i was to be shielded and protected from every single thing that happens in this world i'd be a sad sap by now from being unable to cope.


 
its seeing chickens beheaded that made me vegetarian in the first place...

this kind of thing happened to my grandma. she was only about 10 at the time and she helped raise little chickens and when she came home from school one day their bodies were strung up under the house, headless. Now 60 yrs later she hasnt touched chicken since. It can really have lasting effects...


----------



## SYNeR (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm a meat eater.

To be honest though, I've found a lot of vegetarians and vegans in particular to be so intellectually lazy and brainwashed..


----------



## vampstorso (Jun 8, 2011)

SYNeR said:


> I'm a meat eater.
> 
> To be honest though, I've found a lot of vegetarians and vegans in particular to be so intellectually lazy and brainwashed..


 
If only I could like this 100 times!!!


I actually disagree with people here...again...
I think children SHOULD know what it is they're eating. not in a shock tactic way, but what's wrong with them understanding what they eat? Kids have become too sheltered. I'm not saying throw a whole carcass in front of the child, but perhaps let them know that yes, a chop is a sheep.

I know an 8 year old who thinks "chicken" and "chooks" are different animals...and you eat chickens, but you can't eat the chooks! I think that's where the damage is, but if they knew from the start it wouldn't be different or upsetting to them.


----------



## SYNeR (Jun 8, 2011)

Agreed. The shock tactics used by organisations such as PETA (known supporters of arsonists, by the way) are disgusting.

Here's a good article I found which pretty much sums up my thoughts:

Why Animal Lovers Should Eat Meat | Simple, Good and Tasty


----------



## Boidae (Jun 8, 2011)

I will admit, I basically live off meat and dairy. There is nothing wrong with buying and eating *proper* meat, but you could not pay me to eat that processed fast food crap. Buying meat from a butcher, that came from cows that were well looked after and killed humanely, doesnt bother me, but knowing what those poor animals that are served in McDonalds, KFC etc. have been through, thinking about it actually makes me sick.


----------



## slim6y (Jun 9, 2011)

I was a vegetarian once....

Worst 20 minutes of my life....


----------



## chase77 (Jun 12, 2011)

LiasisFreak said:


> I will admit, I basically live off meat and dairy. There is nothing wrong with buying and eating *proper* meat, but you could not pay me to eat that processed fast food crap. Buying meat from a butcher, that came from cows that were well looked after and killed humanely, doesnt bother me, but knowing what those poor animals that are served in McDonalds, KFC etc. have been through, thinking about it actually makes me sick.



all the beef at maccas is aussie beef, which gets slaughtered exactly the same way as meat at your local butcher or woolworths, I'm not saying maccas is healthy but think first.


----------



## slim6y (Jun 12, 2011)

chase77 said:


> all the beef at maccas is aussie beef, which gets slaughtered exactly the same way as meat at your local butcher or woolworths, I'm not saying maccas is healthy but think first.



But you most definitely can't say the same thing about chickens...


----------



## wranga (Jun 13, 2011)

feed me meat


----------



## Australis (Jun 13, 2011)

junglepython2 said:


> I think Australis is.



My hidden shame revealed


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Jun 13, 2011)

K3nny said:


> depends really, personally i don't find it insensitive ...
> 
> If i was to be shielded and protected from every single thing that happens in this world i'd be a sad sap by now from being unable to cope.


 That’s a hell of jump from not unnecessarily traumatising a kid. Can I suggest to you if you were exposed to “every single thing that happens in the world” whilst you were young you would be a lot worse than a “sad sap” and you would not be able cope with life. Don’t take my word for it - ask any trauma counsellor or any other mental health professional.

My point was why would a parent want to tell you that you were “eating a pet” while you were eating it? It worries me that you don’t find that insensitive. Why cause that degree of pain if you can avoid it? Surely it would be less painful to tell them either well before or well after the event. 

I have no issue with children being exposed to animals being slaughtered for food, as such. It happens on farms and in backyards across the nation. Dad had chooks for eggs and we all knew that when they stopped laying they ended up on the dinner table. We were informed before any chooks were to be dispatched and we could choose to watch or stay inside. I think most of use progressed from seeing the feathers plucked in water, to the bodies hanging on the back fence to drain to watching the actual decapitation. Done properly and not traumatic.

Blue


----------

