# Victorian lost reptiles home, Animals found



## varanid_mike (Nov 21, 2009)

Currently the Victorian lost reptiles home has found reptiles in the following suburbs and is looking to find the original owners.

*Oakleigh*
*Doncaster *
*Cranbourne south*
*Research*

If you live in these suburbs and have lost a reptile recently please contact:

Michael alexander
03 59619183
or
[email protected]


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## wokka (Nov 21, 2009)

This is an interesting service! How many lost animals are "found"" each year by the Victorian lost reptiles home?


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## ChrisZhang (Nov 21, 2009)

do they sell any reptiles sorta like the pound?


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## naledge (Nov 21, 2009)

ChrisZhang said:


> do they sell any reptiles sorta like the pound?



There was a monitor for sale on herp trader last week that had originally been bought from the lost reptiles home, so it seems so.


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## varanid_mike (Nov 22, 2009)

The number of reptiles and species found varies a lot, we get a lot of turtles at this time of year but most are wild animals that I end up relocating to nearby water ways. If I cannot find the owners after a period of time then the animals are either donated (to zoo's ect, schools or the VHS), sold (and the money used to fund their care) or very few a retained for educational purposes to promote the VHS or the lost reptiles home.
A large portion are injured, sick or have problems and as we are a shelter we personally retrieve all animals, treat and house them out of our own costs and support from donations and the VHS.


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## snake_boy (Nov 22, 2009)

how do you know if there wild or not?


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## Gecko75 (Nov 22, 2009)

just out of curiosity, what is the most unusual animal you have found? and generally what are the common things you come accross, I am very curious, suppose there are not native pythons to melbourne which means all pythons would be lost pets.


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## varanid_mike (Nov 22, 2009)

All most all of the time people handle their pet turtles to some degree and the turtles are used to people, wild long necks (the only ones in melb) stink when picked up. the generally have moss on their shells and also the condition of the turtle and general behavior is a clue to working it out. location is important as well. We also take in displaced reptiles such as banana box snakes ect.


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## varanid_mike (Nov 22, 2009)

Water dragons, bearded dragons, stumpy tails and turtles are very common.
Before I personally ran the LRH I helped a friend with the retrieval of the animals and things like Lace monitors and sand goannas are very good at escaping and turn up at least every year. Boas, corn snakes, red eared sliders and tortoises have been picked up and are either dropped at the zoo or to the DSE.


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## eipper (Nov 27, 2009)

So what you are saying is that you are keeping some of reptiles you find for demonstration purposes?....
.I would think that this would be a conflinct of interest...

.if they are suitable for demostration should'nt they be made available to other demonstrators for educational purposes as well?

Also there is a reasonable theory that Chelodina longicollis is NOT native to Melbourne and the pops in waterways are more likely escapees or deliberate releases.

Regards,
Scott


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## snakehandler (Nov 28, 2009)

I have heard that the other person involved in the lost reptiles homes owns a pet store too....yet another conflict of interest in my opinion....by the way, as teachers of snake catching we have asked for a confirmation from the DSE of the status of the lost reptiles home in writing, this has NOT been given.


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## AaronR (Nov 28, 2009)

To those who doubt this service where would you turn to if you lost a herp????? 
Ever considered that varanid_mike might be a registered shelter? What would the DSE do with these herps if they where surrended to them ummmmm be euthanaised.
they could just keep these knowing they are domesticated herps but no the call has been put out to all her on APS so where is that conflict of interest. Where does any money made go from the sale of any of these herps back into the program. I am a shelter and I out of my own pocket support many different speices of animals. both time consuming and financialy difficult.
If you have requested confirmation of this in writing clearly the DSE are aware of this program and find there to be no legalities and their lack of respnse is no fault of varanid_mike.
This is a fantastic program and is/will save many herps lifes.


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## snakehandler (Nov 28, 2009)

While the concept is good, there are too many what ifs....

Perhaps if the program was more transparent it would be much better.....the other question is why should the VHS benifit, what about the VAAH? Why is the VHS donating to one wildlife shelter that is run by a committee member? Is this a conflict of interest.

A wildlife shelter independent of the VHS, demonstrators and pet stores should run such a program!


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## Egernia (Nov 29, 2009)

Can someone explain what the licencing arrangements are with this group? I doubt that in NSW something like this would ever fly so am curious if VIC accepts this.

While the intentions may be good, the system could easily be taken advantage of either intentionally or accidentally.

What should be done with reptiles that are clearly escaped pets or accidentally translocated from other areas (such as banana box frogs)? They can not and should not be released in the wild, so who is going to take care of them?

In NSW some of these animals may end up in wildlife parks or as educational animals used by wildlife groups but the numbers here are not large. 

Rehoming is obviously a preferred alternative to euthenasia of course, but once a value is added to the animals then problems may arise with people taking advantage of the situation.

Perhaps rehoming should be allowed on a first time first served ballot basis such that people put their name down for the animals that they want and wait till their name comes up. All animals should be microchipped as being rehomed animals and as such not available for re-sale. The initial owner of the animal pays for the microchipping costs but cannot onsell the animal so that the animal has no value. The animal can be transferred to another owner but both owners need to declare that no money was involved.

It may sound good but who is going to police this?


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## dottyback (Nov 29, 2009)

Snake handler do I detect a little bit of jealousy? It best for the herps that are lost and found that they go to 2 people who are heavily involved in the herp world in Victoria and the 2 individuals are perfect for such a program. The only conflict of interest is people thinking that they are going to profiteer for having such a position and these 2 people have the lost or found animal at heart as their own business’s are already successful!


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## beatlloydy (Nov 29, 2009)

Egernia said:


> Can someone explain what the licencing arrangements are with this group? I doubt that in NSW something like this would ever fly so am curious if VIC accepts this.
> 
> While the intentions may be good, the system could easily be taken advantage of either intentionally or accidentally.
> 
> ...



I don't know what the laws are in NSW pertaining to this....however, I recently picked up a FREE coastal which was rescued from a warehouse in Camperdown...Again I am not sure of the exact laws surrounding this but was given a CALLID # to place on my DECC form and quote "unreleased orphan animal". 

Again I am not sure but I doubt if I could ever sell this animal (not that I would as she is so friendly and good looking).

To be honest there may always be people trying to rort the system. (not implying there is any rorting going on) However, I still take my hat off to anyone who volunteers...If a non profit organisation can make a little money to offset costs then I dont have an issue with that per se. It would only be of concern if an individual was profitting from rescues or charity work in general. Individuals helping rehome lost animals do incur a lot of personal costs and time sacrifice. Perhaps before we start poking sticks at them we should probably try walking in their shoes.


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## AaronR (Nov 29, 2009)

Snakehandler there will always be a difference of opinions on how to run certain programs but again as stated monies raised go back to VHS which assest in the payment of medications, heating, collecting the herp(petrol time) etc these things all cost money and to be able to recoup any is benefical as the cost certainly add up.
You ask why the VHS and not VAAH. Why does Petstock support wildlife vic and not help for wildlife? the cricket supports pink ribbion day not daffidil day. This is the organisisation they choose to support so be it atleast it is helping our herps.


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## tenacres1100 (Nov 29, 2009)

eipper said:


> Also there is a reasonable theory that Chelodina longicollis is NOT native to Melbourne and the pops in waterways are more likely escapees or deliberate releases.
> Regards,
> Scott


 
what theory is that? 
I'm 50 and for as long as I can remember there have always been eastern longnecks in the dams and waterways of the outer northern suburbs of Melb. I counted a doz in our dam last year


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## Snake Catcher Victoria (Nov 29, 2009)

We get lots of longnecks in the dams around the peninsula to but i have heard and it seems credible that the turts we get here have mostly been introduced and bred on their own.

Last year when it dried up i was called to a copperhead rescue and the dam on the property was exploding with longnecks, there were old whitened carapises strewn around from generations of turts being there.

I dont know about pops north of melbourne, they could be endemic to those areas, but down here the introduced theory makes sense due to natural barrier of the great divide which has slowed the progress of black and brown snakes here..., in theory
Cheers


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## varanid_mike (Nov 29, 2009)

Me personally making any type of profit of this shelter is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, unlike some not all things are done just for personal gain. In the last couple of weeks I have driven around Melbourne almost every day at ALL HOURS removing reptiles for the LRH with all costs (so far) coming out my own pocket. The VHS helps support the LRH so that animals are treated with the best care and not all costs have to come from myself. Let me make something VERY clear I do not get a cent for myself out of this; I do it because I actually love what I do and because I am a very suitable candidate for it.
Reptiles that are retained for use in promoting the LRH or VHS are not used in my own business and are not significant species of any dollar value. Considering I pay people to attend events for nothing to help promote the VHS and LRH then I think a turtle or stumpy tail is worth hanging on to continue to promote the proper keeping and welfare of reptiles.

I put the add up on the site because I want to find the owners of the animals I have found, If I lost some of the much loved animals we have in our own collection then I would hope there was someone doing the same.

I don't think I need to explain myself any further. If anyone would like to volunteer to help promote the keeping of reptiles or the shelter we run please feel free to contact me. Thanks to those couple of people who get it and support the hoby.

Mike


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

I have anything to be jealous about, we are turning events down due being overbooked, my main issue with the concept is the mismanagment of it in the past, by a former demonstrator and the potential for this to happen again, I have requested and NOT received any formal notification of its existence from DSE. Some snake catchers in Melbourne will not send lost reptiles to the LRH due to these problems in the past and due to the current people running it and their feelings about them, this is a fact...as such it would be better handled by people not within the industry side of reptiles.

It has nothing to do the success or not of either individual, however an obvious series of conflicts of interest and potential abuse that can be avoided. My point about the VHS is that a committee member has vested interests in both the VHS and the LRH....another conflict of interest.


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## AaronR (Nov 29, 2009)

Where is there any issue of conflict in a reptile getting the husbandry it needs! If this program did not existing again snakehandler I ask what would come of the herp's IMO DSE=euthanisisa LRH hope and home. Maybe snakehandler if you are so against varanid_mike and VHS LRH set your own program up for down your way and do it how you want, until then it is very easy for you to sit back a critise.
I must admit this agruement is really getting my back up as IMO this is a fantastic program. I also know of somebody who had there python returned through this program.


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## whyme (Nov 29, 2009)

V MIKe i think its a great thing that your doing, especially springing from your own pocket. And to put an add up here advertising the lost reps may help a few people. To be honest, I didn't even know you guy's existed:shock:


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## africancichlidau (Nov 29, 2009)

AaronR said:


> Where is there any issue of conflict in a reptile getting the husbandry it needs! If this program did not existing again snakehandler I ask what would come of the herp's IMO DSE=euthanisisa LRH hope and home. Maybe snakehandler if you are so against varanid_mike and VHS LRH set your own program up for down your way and do it how you want, until then it is very easy for you to sit back a critise.
> I must admit this agruement is really getting my back up as IMO this is a fantastic program. I also know of somebody who had there python returned through this program.



Hear Hear!


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

If this is a VHS directed program, then by all means the reptiles that are not found new homes should be auctioned to assist in paying for their care and this should go to the organisation caring for them......I believe in the concept......I do not have the time to operate such a program, as has been stated, running around Melbourne most days at all hours......I am usually working, hence not suitable for such things......when i'm not working, I have my hands full with cleaning and fatherhood.....hats off to those who gave the time.


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## DonkeyKong (Nov 29, 2009)

snakehandler said:


> If this is a VHS directed program, then by all means the reptiles that are not found new homes should be auctioned to assist in paying for their care and this should go to the organisation caring for them......I believe in the concept......I do not have the time to operate such a program, as has been stated, running around Melbourne most days at all hours......I am usually working, hence not suitable for such things......when i'm not working, I have my hands full with cleaning and fatherhood.....hats off to those who gave the time.



So what exactly is your point?


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## Khagan (Nov 29, 2009)

Gotta love APS, only place where someone posts up trying to get in contact with owners to return lost pets and gets attacked for their troubles :lol:.


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

My comments are not an attack on mike or the program itself, the concept is very good, excellent in fact....there were claims of abuse of the LRH in the past, threatening to derail it, last I heard the wish was to avoid other similar problems, avoid conflicts of interest. Claims were made that previous operators used the LRH to replace lost stock, assist friends and this resulted in a lack of trust by many snake catchers.....threatening a great concept......i don't want this to happen again, whether the claims are true or false as it is a program that works well and many ppl do get reunited with their loved animals, I don't want potential conflicts of interest to ruin such a thing.


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## waruikazi (Nov 29, 2009)

DonkeyKong said:


> So what exactly is your point?



Are you serious? His point is there is a conflict of interest. 

I'll do interent talk to make it clearer.

Conflict of interest = Fail


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

As stated very early in the thread, great program, if it was run by wildlife shelters Independant of pet stores and demonstrators


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## naledge (Nov 29, 2009)

I honestly can't think how it's legal to drive around stealing animals from the wild, if you take one shingleback you're potentially taking fifteen years of offspring because they mate for life.

How is it legal? I didn't think the government would allow something so devastating to the wild reptile population. Let me get this straight, you drive around all day, every day, taking wild animals from the bush, in the hopes that some of them are pets?

I'm all for saving injured animals, but something about this whole thing makes me feel dirty.


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

Naledge.....hold on there is no stealing done... The reptiles found are not indiginous to Melbourne and are lost pets.....the concept is to find the owner within a reasonable timeframe if not move them on and recoup costs.....NO theft


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## naledge (Nov 29, 2009)

snakehandler said:


> Naledge.....hold on there is no stealing done... The reptiles found are not indiginous to Melbourne and are lost pets.....the concept is to find the owner within a reasonable timeframe if not move them on and recoup costs.....NO theft



Yeah but even if they're not indigenous to Melbourne they're still taking animals from the wild, they may not be indigenous but they still could be living and breeding in the area, I don't like the idea of taking them from the wild at all. 

They might not be pets, the guy running said himself that most of the animals are wild and get relocated, but if you relocate a shingleback that doesn't end up finding it's mate you've killed off countless lizards. I don't like it. 

I think the concept is good, but the whole thing is flawed, I would be more willing to trust it if they had a way of finding out whether the animal was wild or a pet or if they were run by the council.


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## eipper (Nov 29, 2009)

Anyone thinking about potenial for disease transmission????? *I am in no way saying that this is the case* but there is potenial for diseases/viral infections to pass from the LRH to rest of the community due to quarantine issues....I take it they are potenially "rehomed" inside 90 days if an owner comes forward????

Cheers,
Scott


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## snakehandler (Nov 29, 2009)

The reptiles that are rehomed are not native to Melbourne, under the regulations in Vic they must be destroyed, the LRH attempts to link owners with lost animals.....animals not native to an area although native can be as destructive as pest species.

Scott, disease is a large reason why I would not accept one of these animals nor run such a program.....history of the LRH will clearly show that this has caused problems in the past.....I would not risk my collection for such a program.


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## Sdaji (Nov 29, 2009)

naledge said:


> Yeah but even if they're not indigenous to Melbourne they're still taking animals from the wild, they may not be indigenous but they still could be living and breeding in the area, I don't like the idea of taking them from the wild at all.
> 
> They might not be pets, the guy running said himself that most of the animals are wild and get relocated, but if you relocate a shingleback that doesn't end up finding it's mate you've killed off countless lizards. I don't like it.
> 
> I think the concept is good, but the whole thing is flawed, I would be more willing to trust it if they had a way of finding out whether the animal was wild or a pet or if they were run by the council.



If they are not indigenous they should be removed from the wild anyway. If the removal of a lizard from an area which is not supposed to be there causes hundreds of other lizards not coming into existance, it's an excellent thing.

I don't know where the allegations of wrongdoing come from, but raising them on this forum probably should not be done unless you are going to substantiate it, otherwise it constitutes an unfair attack on the previous owner of the Lost Reptiles Home license. If the allegations are correct and those making them want to substantiate what they are saying, fine, I won't stand in your way, but what you are currently doing is a case of slander.

For the record, I have no idea what Mike is doing with the license or how good a job he is doing, I am neither defending nor attacking him. As far as I know, the previous owner was not abusing the license, but obviously I don't watch him constantly and can't make any personal guarantees.

The conflict of interest does clearly exist, and I think it would be much more appropriate for any animals which are to be sold to be done so through a publicly transparent system. A system which would allow a person the ability to catch any species and 'make it legally held' then sell it or give it to their mate seems inherrantly problematic. If the collected species were put up for auction on a public website with proceeds going to the relevant deparment, or if a ballot system was in place as it is in NSW it would seem more fair and less open to abuse. Perhaps a certain dollar amount could go towards the lost reptiles home to cover expenses, and this could be taken out of the animal sales, with any further money going to the department. These measures seem fairly basic in terms of legal soundness, and are easy to put in place. It wouldn't be difficult for an allowance to be put in there for animals to be sold through an organisation such as the VHS, VAAH, VFG etc as long as those organisations were financially transparent and not for profit.


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## geckos (Nov 30, 2009)

*Good Work*

Varamid_Mike,
Regardless of any 'conflict of interest' suggestions, and other questions raised, the post before mine pretty much sums it all up.
I would just like to add that it is a shame you are not getting as many replies,regarding the actual welfare of the animals you have.I hope they are all well.You dont deserve to be interigated as to your intentions,Youve obviously gone to the trouble of helping out some desperate animals, and I dont doubt you have good intensions,posting that your looking for owners.
Im thinking, diseased, animals are euthaneised, can you clarify how you get on with the the 90 day quarantine period.Are new animals,kept seperate ect, 
I am very interested in knowledge about snake handling and I am considering volunteering at NSW Reptile Park, or another one in the Hunter Valley.
Althouth interesting,I find these post concerning,profit,conditions ect unneccesary unless the person is going to aquire one of your animals,or otherwise take their suggestive concerns to the authorities.
Not sure why, but APS,users,seem to take the objectional view first ,and address the post's real intensions last, I suppose thats what freedom of speach and forums are for,and i think any disscussion is better than none when it comes to learning. Good luck in the future.Helena


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## AaronR (Nov 30, 2009)

I think some people are just trying to knit pick at the program if you are looking for faults in something not matter what you will always find them.


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## herptrader (Nov 30, 2009)

With global warming and the like the home range of many species have the potential to move. While long necks may not have been in the Melbourne basin (or the peninsular) in noticeable numbers a century or so ago that does not mean that they could not migrate here of their own accord though I agree the most likely explanation is escaped pets. If that were the case though why would we not see Mary River and other species that were once popular in the pet trade and could conceivably do well in our (warming) climate.


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## richardsc (Dec 24, 2009)

nit picking on aps??????surely not,lol

snakehandler,u say its a good cause if run by wildlife shelters independent of petstores/demonstrators????have any put there hands up to do it????im sure if the lrh can do it,others can to,most wildlife shelters are mammal avian based,and not well clued as to how to care for reptiles


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## eipper (Dec 24, 2009)

Daavid,

The Great dividing Range to the North of Melbourne and the lack of flowing waterways to the East (between Moe and Warrigul) are what has stopped C. longicollis from entering Melbourne naturally. These are geological barriers as opposed to climatic ones, so now that they are here they are breeding successfully and have effectively turn feral.

Chelodina longicollis is not the only native species to be living in Melbourne outside of its natural range.....Physignathus lesueurii, Christinus marmoratus, Emydura macquarii and Litoria fallax are all breeding and surviving around Melbourne. Whether they should be allowed to continue too is another can of worms completely though

Cheers,
Scott


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## varanid_mike (Dec 24, 2009)

STILL LOOKING FOR THE OWNERS.

*Lost reptiles found*
*Victorian lost reptiles home, Animals found* 
Currently the Victorian lost reptiles home has found reptiles in the following suburbs and is looking to find the original owners.

*November: Oakleigh*
*December: Narre warren*
*December: Clayton*
*December: Frankston*

If you live in these suburbs and have lost a reptile recently please contact:

Michael alexander
03 59619183
or
[email protected]


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## varanid_mike (Dec 29, 2009)

*Lost reptiles found
Victorian lost reptiles home, Animals found* 
Currently the Victorian lost reptiles home has found reptiles in the following suburbs and is looking to find the original owners.

*November: Oakleigh*
*December: Narre warren*
*December: Clayton*
*December: Frankston*
*December: Blackburn*

If you live in these suburbs and have lost a reptile recently please contact:

Michael alexander
03 59619183
or
[email protected] 

These are a few tips to help prevent the escape of your pet and if it has escaped, the return.
- *Microchip your pet reptile,* we scan all reptiles that come in when they get a vet check.
- Never leave pet reptiles unattended when giving then sun basking sessions, reptiles are very quick when they need to be and very good at hiding and often will be gone if you’re not keeping an eye on them.
- Make sure your enclosure is escape proof; old or loose air vents and sliding doors are the most common cause of escape. Always double or triple check you have closed and latched the enclosure.
- If you have lost a pet reptile check the surrounding areas very thoroughly; under couches, in and behind book shelves, behind the TV e.c.t. Also re-check the enclosure as reptiles may find small gaps in cage furniture to hide in or even in the lighting fixtures.
- Drop leaflets in the surrounding houses notifying them that you have lost your friendly pet reptile and they should contact you if they see it.
If you have not found the reptile within 12 hours please notify us, we will take down your details and the species lost and let you know immediately if we do find it. You can also check her on the Aussie Python Forum as we post lost reptiles up regularly


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## varanid_mike (Jan 3, 2010)

bump


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## JAS101 (Jan 3, 2010)

can ya microchip ya snakes and that? i didnt know that - cool


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## snakehandler (Jan 3, 2010)

One other suggestion, follow the regulations, when you loose your reptile, notify the DSE (VIC) they will work with you to help you get it back, you are not going to get into trouble for it. As snake catchers we frequently contact DSE to find out if a reptile has been reported lost in an area so that we can re-unite that day!


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## toximac (Jan 23, 2010)

I always thought they just let the reptiles go, anyway, they do have reptile pound and ppl that hold em for you and u can call em


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## herptrader (Jan 26, 2010)

If it is a wild animal in their home range they do let them go and usually not overly far from when they are caught.

Obviously domestic animals and animals way outside their home range end up at the Lost Herps Home (in Vic). Other states have similar policies.



toximac said:


> I always thought they just let the reptiles go, anyway, they do have reptile pound and ppl that hold em for you and u can call em


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