# Northern Rainforest Diamonds?



## BROWNS (Jul 30, 2008)

Anyone else checked out the Northern Rainforest diamonds advertised on herp trader?Not wanting to be monotonous but it's hard not to be when you look at the animals in the photos and have to pose the question of being pure diamonds but striped ones lol or are they intergrades.All these new terms popping up for animals like Honey Jungles is a bit of a laugh really,well it is to me anywaylol


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## DanTheMan (Jul 30, 2008)

I saw one like that, i think they are just port macs aren't they?
do you have the link for the one your talking about?


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## BROWNS (Jul 30, 2008)

Surely you have the herp shop or herp trader saved in your favourites,if not you should,it's one of the best sites for buying and selling reptiles along with buying just about anything needed to keep reptiles!

http://www.herptrader.com.au/


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## sweetangel (Jul 30, 2008)

if you read the ad is says morelia spilota mcdoweli/ morelia spilota spilota..... isnt this an intergrade??whether it is natural or not. what ever they are, they are not claimed as pure diamonds.... but damn do they look amazing!! i would love one of those in my collection


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## Ned_fisch (Jul 30, 2008)

I saw it, it looked like a DiamondxCoastal to me. It even says that.
*Northern Rainforest Diamond Python (Morelia spilota Mcdowelli/Spilota) 7 mth old advanced hatchlings, approx 80cms long.

*The Ref# number is 820-905.


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## DanTheMan (Jul 30, 2008)

Haha and I thought I was a keen herper! sound like iv been missing out
cheers.


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## BROWNS (Jul 30, 2008)

Ah I missed that I just saw Northern Rainforest Diamonds,now it makes more sense lol


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## jimbo (Jul 30, 2008)

Yeh there were some up a few years back that looked quite similar to those and they were sold as intergrades /hybrids, maybe from the same breeder? They do look great though, same goes for the add bellow, i was really considering buying them


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## hawktime (Jul 31, 2008)

They are from Kel Worley, checkout his Diamonds, best in the country for sure!!!!!!
Kel also has the Ochre BHP's that are also the best in Oz, thats where Den K got his from....

The Worley's are one of the top breeders in the country and realy nice people too.

The ad clearly states Mcdowelli/Spilota, they are obviously from the Northen Rain forest area... Nothing missleading there....


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## gman78 (Jul 31, 2008)

I wouldn't buy them.
Much better pure diamonds around.
Don't like x breeds


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## Radar (Jul 31, 2008)

hawktime said:


> They are from Kel Worley, checkout his Diamonds, best in the country for sure!!!!!!
> Kel also has the Ochre BHP's that are also the best in Oz, thats where Den K got his from....
> 
> The Worley's are one of the top breeders in the country and realy nice people too.
> ...


 
That really depends what you class as the 'northen rainforest area'........For me its somewhere........north...............like the wet tropics world heritage area, NQLD. :lol:


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## richardsc (Jul 31, 2008)

there classed as intergrades as there a naturally occuring intergrade between coastals and diamonds,not hybrids


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## hawktime (Jul 31, 2008)

gman78 Read the ad again, they are not crossbreeds, they are a natural intergrade..

Rednut As above !!!!!

The people that want to bag these snakes obviously dont know who the Worley's are...
They breed more snakes (top quality) then most of us put together..
Keyboard experts are probably why Kel hates computers and is never on this site, a real shame as Denver will tell you Kel has a wealth of knowledge....


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## -Peter (Jul 31, 2008)

Not a bagging post but I read the ad Hawktime and its says and I quote "Specially selected multi generation captive bred, selectively bred from outstanding parents for temperament, colour and overall health."
Where does it say natural my son, who the hell is Denver? and who cares who doesnt use the inernet. 
Buy the snakes if you like them but they are breeders snakes. That makes them pure Worley lines, not pure natural intergrades. That doesnt make them any less attractive or worthy of purchase. In fact if the Worleys are in for the long haul which I assume they are then they are establishing a provenance through the naming.
I too question the use of Northern Rainforest but they aren't my snakes so i dont get naming rights.


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## caustichumor (Jul 31, 2008)

I just think people are referring to the name (or renaming) of the particular pythons. I have never heard of Northern Rainforest Diamonds before, I am sure they are just running out a new identifying name for their particular line of pythons, i.e. Southern Crosses "Topaz Tanami Womas"


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## BIG RYANO (Jul 31, 2008)

I guess 'Intergrades for sale' doesnt sound quite as good as 'Northern rainforest Diamonds' does it? They'll sell quicker with the catchy name.


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## oddball (Jul 31, 2008)

I like the name Northern Rainforest Diamonds much better than Port Macs, as Port Maquarie (sp?) isn't the only place with the integrades, they go up past coffs harbour and down furthur south too. But I originally thought "northern rainforest" meant the top end. 
I definantly love integrades though, I have a bit of a soft spot for them, having originally come from the northern end of their area.
They could be called a number of things, sub-tropical rainforest diamonds, rainbow forest diamonds (after the rainbow region) etc. Makes them sound far more mysterious and thrilling than "integrade" or natural coastal/diamond x. I guess it depends who's breeding them.


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## hawktime (Jul 31, 2008)

Peter, im not your son!!!!! 
What i meant by saying natural intergrade was that they are not a cross breed, of course they are multi generation captive breed.

Quote " who cares who uses a computer" well i do, it would be great if there were more people on here like Kel, instead of keyboard breeders..

Quote" who the hells Denver" . Peter, where have you been???? Denver & his brother Troy are another couple of Australia's best.... do a quick search!!!
They also have a new Reptile mag comming out called Scails & Tails..


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## imported_Varanus (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi ALL,

Probably opening a can of worms here, but why does the term "natural intergrade" bring out the knockers?

IMO, their just as "natural" as any other python species as their "naturally occuring" as opposed to crossing a Bredli with a MD!!

Great looking snakes I reckon>

Cheers,

I.V.


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## hawktime (Jul 31, 2008)

Well said imported_varanus.....


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## -Peter (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh for gods sake, just kill me now. Can someone please remove my posts from this insipid thread please.


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## FAY (Jul 31, 2008)

Garth and myself have personally known Kel for a few years now.Our first lot of pythons came from him. He is indeed a fantastic breeder and knows his stuff.Oh and a great guy as well.


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## turtle (Jul 31, 2008)

Funniest thread ever!! :lol::lol:


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## FAY (Jul 31, 2008)

BROWNS said:


> Anyone else checked out the Northern Rainforest diamonds advertised on herp trader?Not wanting to be monotonous but it's hard not to be when you look at the animals in the photos and have to pose the question of being pure diamonds but striped ones lol or are they intergrades.All these new terms popping up for animals like Honey Jungles is a bit of a laugh really,well it is to me anywaylol



The chap that runs the Canberra Reptile Centre, Ross (sorry forgot his last name) refuses to call Jungle Pythons that...he refers to them as 'Rainforest Pythons'.
Each to his own I say..


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## michele (Aug 29, 2008)

just a short note.INTERGRADES ARE A NATURALLY OCCURRING ANIMAL ALL OF ITS OWN,NOT A CROSS.!!!!!VERY FRUSTRATING THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL REFFERRING TO THEM AS SOME CROSS.


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## ryanharvey1993 (Aug 29, 2008)

errrr hasnt that alread ben said over a month ago


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## herpkeeper (Aug 29, 2008)

*marketing ploy*

the use of "names" is just a selling ploy ! honey jungles, northern rain forest Diamonds, 80/20, ocre bhp's, super stripe OH PLEASE give us a break ! when i first started out in this industry well over a decade ago, if you perchased a jungle carpet for instance, it was either a black & gold or a black & white not some ****y named thing, a BHP was either QLD or NT form, not some ****y named U- Beaut what ever, anyone who has been around know's that you get BHP's in QLD for instance ranging from cream with brown bands, pale yellow with reddish bands and so on and so on. As I stated, this is just a way for people to market their animals by giving them some ****y name :evil: and as for all the the ball greasing :evil: spare us for christ sake !


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## TrueBlue (Aug 29, 2008)

hahaha, i agree with you 100% herpkeeper, just a marketing ploy and nothing more.
But imo using the term morelia spilota mcdowelli / morelia spilota spilota leads one to belive they are hybrids bettween carpets and diamonds rather than natural intergrades. So if they are natural intergrades imo that is a very silly way to describe them.
Gee we seem to be getting more and more americanised every year with all these silly misleading names.

Maybe i should call my hypo coastals "caramel chocalate chip" or "bannana chocalate chip" carpets depending on colour. hahaha. NOT.!!!!!!


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 30, 2008)

michele said:


> just a short note.INTERGRADES ARE A NATURALLY OCCURRING ANIMAL ALL OF ITS OWN,NOT A CROSS.!!!!!VERY FRUSTRATING THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL REFFERRING TO THEM AS SOME CROSS.


 
So why not just call em Intergrades?? Why call them northern rainforest diamonds if their just ordinary intergrades?? 
Their not true diamonds, their found in many different types of habitat, so why northern rainforest diamonds? Cause it sucks in the beginners who dont know any better, thats why.


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## Hetty (Aug 30, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> Maybe i should call my hypo coastals "caramel chocalate chip" or "bannana chocalate chip" carpets depending on colour. hahaha. NOT.!!!!!!



I think you should. That sounds really tasty :lol:


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 30, 2008)

herpkeeper said:


> the use of "names" is just a selling ploy ! honey jungles, northern rain forest Diamonds, 80/20, ocre bhp's, super stripe OH PLEASE give us a break ! when i first started out in this industry well over a decade ago, if you perchased a jungle carpet for instance, it was either a black & gold or a black & white not some ****y named thing, a BHP was either QLD or NT form, not some ****y named U- Beaut what ever, anyone who has been around know's that you get BHP's in QLD for instance ranging from cream with brown bands, pale yellow with reddish bands and so on and so on. As I stated, this is just a way for people to market their animals by giving them some ****y name :evil: and as for all the the ball greasing :evil: spare us for christ sake !


 
Spot on. I just dont get ochre chin BHp's. Half the blackheads you come across out western Qld have some orange on the bottom jaw area. I cant see why people would pay extra money to buy one of these things. I actually think they should be cheaper than the all black heads.
Oh well, i guess the world would be pretty boring if we all thought the same way.


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## Khagan (Aug 30, 2008)

TrueBlue said:


> But imo using the term morelia spilota mcdowelli / morelia spilota spilota leads one to belive they are hybrids bettween carpets and diamonds rather than natural intergrades. So if they are natural intergrades imo that is a very silly way to describe them.



For NSW atleast, that is what natural intergrades are listed as for licencing: Morelia Spilota Mcdowelli / Spilota. So that is the possible reason people label them as such.


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## michele (Aug 30, 2008)

northern rainforest diamonds is a common name that sounds much better than intergrade.more promotion is whats needded with these beautiful snakes and intergrade definately doesnt do them much justice.its not as if theyre changing the latin name.also the term INTERGRADE confuses people,assuming theyre some kind of cross.people need steering away from that term to make it clearer that they are a form all of their own.i like the new name.the worleys are pretty on the ball


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## michele (Aug 30, 2008)

BIG RYANO said:


> Spot on. I just dont get ochre chin BHp's. Half the blackheads you come across out western Qld have some orange on the bottom jaw area. I cant see why people would pay extra money to buy one of these things. I actually think they should be cheaper than the all black heads.
> Oh well, i guess the world would be pretty boring if we all thought the same way.


the idea about breeding these gold chins is that more and more gold is appearing under the chin,the body and the face...who knows where this could lead-a hatchling may appear with the whole head eventually being gold?who knows.each to there own though,but its like any new strain that turns up,that s what keeps breeding exciting.just look at barkers ball python book...pretty amazing


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## TrueBlue (Aug 30, 2008)

michele,- intergrade DOSNT confuse people into beliving they are a cross, thats what they are.
Rainforest Diamond on the other hand does confuse people, as they are NOT Diamonds. duh.!


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## cement (Aug 30, 2008)

I just thought of a good new line to breed. Ochre chin Bhps until all the blacks gone and they have a all yellow head!!! OH hang on.............................haha!

If a beginner bought a northern rainforest diamond and told people thats what he had, he would cop some weird looks. I know Kel and Julie know their stuff.................. i am not saying they don't ,I am just thinking how funny it would sound coming from a person who just acquired their first snake.


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## herpkeeper (Aug 30, 2008)

*Intergrade*

an intergrade is excactly that, an intergrade. try marketing it with what ever fancy name you like, but at the end of the day it is where one form over lap naturally with another, therefore creating a natural intergrade ! (ps) Rob, put me down for a pair of your choc chip caramel carpets and possibly a pair of the double choc chip banana carpets as well (LOL)


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## BIG RYANO (Aug 31, 2008)

michele said:


> the idea about breeding these gold chins is that more and more gold is appearing under the chin,the body and the face...who knows where this could lead-a hatchling may appear with the whole head eventually being gold?who knows.


 
We already have Woma's. I'd rather Black headed pythons have black heads. If i want them with orange heads, i'll buy a nice woma for a lot cheaper.
But as you said, each to their own.


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## BROWNS (Aug 31, 2008)

sweetangel said:


> if you read the ad is says morelia spilota mcdoweli/ morelia spilota spilota..... isnt this an intergrade??whether it is natural or not. what ever they are, they are not claimed as pure diamonds.... but damn do they look amazing!! i would love one of those in my collection



Yeah OK I saw the part where it says morelia spilota mcdoweli etc but it still doesn't make it6 a Northen Rainforest or desert etc etc diamond ,it makes it an intergrade and should therefore be advertised as such.

What about new comers to the hobby buying one of these and thinking it's actually a pure diamond where maybe when having the animal sold an explanation is given that it is not a diamond but an intergrade so again why not advertise it as such?They're absolutely gorgeous carpets and if there is a known locality to where they originated from such as Port Mac or Kempsey,Dorrigo etc then advertise it as a Dorrigo intergrade not a Northern rainforest diamond?

The Worleys have a great reputation in this hobby so I can't see wthe need to put designer names to animqals which are simply integrades and if from a specific locality would fetch even more money than something called a Northern Rainforest Diamond as they are not they are Northern Intergrades,that's a fact and nothing will change it...keep it real people!!!


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## ezekiel86 (Sep 1, 2008)

Southern Crosse know there stuff contact them!


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## herpkeeper (Sep 1, 2008)

ezekiel86 southern cross know their stuff contact them! about what ? sure Simon & Diane know stuff, but i think you have missed the boat here ! the debate is about re-naming animals as a way to market them ! get with the programme..............


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## Perko (Sep 2, 2008)

herpkeeper said:


> the use of "names" is just a selling ploy ! honey jungles, northern rain forest Diamonds, 80/20, ocre bhp's, super stripe OH PLEASE give us a break ! when i first started out in this industry well over a decade ago, if you perchased a jungle carpet for instance, it was either a black & gold or a black & white not some ****y named thing, a BHP was either QLD or NT form, not some ****y named U- Beaut what ever, anyone who has been around know's that you get BHP's in QLD for instance ranging from cream with brown bands, pale yellow with reddish bands and so on and so on. As I stated, this is just a way for people to market their animals by giving them some ****y name :evil: and as for all the the ball greasing :evil: spare us for christ sake !


 

Can you explain your thoughts on the Ochre BHP's. Why is the name just a selling ploy?
Are they worth the extra bucks?
Thanks.


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## 7aipan (Sep 2, 2008)

*First post lol*

Hey everyone this is my first post but I just wanted to say i bought a diamond X carpet from Kel a couple years back and she won first place in her catogory at the wild expo this year she really yellow like really really yellow. I wanna post a picture of her but it says that it is too big or something wait I'll figure it out.


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## 7aipan (Sep 2, 2008)




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## 7aipan (Sep 2, 2008)

well that sure as hell didn't work


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## Vincent (Sep 2, 2008)

7aipan said:


> i bought a diamond X carpet from Kel a couple years back and she won first place in her catogory at the wild expo this year she really yellow like really really yellow.


 
Haha, here we go.
An Intergrade won best diamond at the expo?? Or was it just a prize for a good looking snake? What was the name of the category?


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## herpkeeper (Sep 2, 2008)

CraigP, why don't you explain to me what set's them apart from wild pops?


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## herpkeeper (Sep 2, 2008)

looks like this thread is deteriorating into a ball greasing episode !


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## Nikki. (Sep 2, 2008)

I remember at the aps trip to Canberra i got to hold this magnificent snake and the guy who owned the reptile centre said it was a rainforest carpet.I've got a pic of me holding it - i'l try my best to find it for you guys


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## Perko (Sep 2, 2008)

herpkeeper said:


> CraigP, why don't you explain to me what set's them apart from wild pops?


 
Thats what i was asking you?

No ballgreasing here, i would like to know if they should be worth 3x the amount SR sell there BHP's for.


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## herpkeeper (Sep 2, 2008)

Craig , nothing set's them apart from wild pops, i've found BHP's on the east coast very similar. anyone who has done a bit of herping out west will tell you they are nothing special, certainly not worth a higher $. what this thread is about is the use of trumped up names to sell animals ie: ochre BHP's,Honey Jungles, rain forest Diamonds, fancy name for an intergrade, doesn't make them any less desirable, still nice animals as they are a naturally occuring form, just don't see where people get off coming up with some of these names. Nothing but a marketing ploy, plain and simple!


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 2, 2008)

There's a difference between a marketting ploy and differentiating good quality, unique stock from the rest of the crowd. I agree that the vast majority of these names that are coined are generally cover ups for substandard animals, but not all of them are. Things like Topaz Woma's, Pinstripe Woma's and Ochre Blackheads are the real deal - but I do agree that things like Honey Jungles, Rainforest Diamonds and several others are just flash names for substandard animals.


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## herpkeeper (Sep 2, 2008)

Jonno, as far as Woma's are concerned, ask Dave from Pilbara Pythons or True Blue with the Boodarie animals for instance : i've seen "pin striped" and "topaz" Woma's produced out of the same clutch, explain that ??? are they not worthy of a fancy name as well???


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## Jonno from ERD (Sep 2, 2008)

G'day mate,

I get on well with both Dave and Rob, but just because they have an opinion doesn't mean it has to be taken as gospel  I like to form my own opinions based off experiences and information that I have picked up off many different people over the years. I'm not saying you are basing your opinion off Dave and Rob, either.

Just because unique animals come from a clutch where other, more plain animals hatched doesn't mean anything. An albino that is bred from a Het X Het mating is still an albino, even though the majority of the clutch wasn't.


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## herpkeeper (Sep 2, 2008)

Jonno, i have watched a clutch of these woma's hatch with my own eyes & out of that clutch i have seen pin striped & topaz as well as normal banded Woma's. I haven't based my analogy on someone's word, I have seen this for my self. I can see where you are coming from with the amelanistic animals from het X het, but the end result doesn't warrant a "special naming" which correct me if I'm wrong ? but this is what the thread is about.


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## 7aipan (Sep 3, 2008)

Hey Vincent it won the OPEN PYTHON catagory at wild expo. Oh here we go. Just cos I'm new don't mean you can down talk me.


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## Vincent (Sep 3, 2008)

7aipan said:


> Hey Vincent it won the OPEN PYTHON catagory at wild expo. Oh here we go. Just cos I'm new don't mean you can down talk me.


 
I wasnt talking down to you.


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## Perko (Sep 3, 2008)

Posting this for 7aipan, its his snake that won the award at Expo.

Nice looker mate!!


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## cockney red (Sep 3, 2008)

Jonno from ERD said:


> There's a difference between a marketting ploy and differentiating good quality, unique stock from the rest of the crowd. I agree that the vast majority of these names that are coined are generally cover ups for substandard animals, but not all of them are. Things like Topaz Woma's, Pinstripe Woma's and Ochre Blackheads are the real deal - but I do agree that things like Honey Jungles, Rainforest Diamonds and several others are just flash names for substandard animals.


Port Macs are certainly not substandard animals. The naming as Rainforest Diamonds, is certainly a substandard marketing ploy though.


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## Den from Den Pythons (Oct 1, 2008)

-Peter said:


> Not a bagging post but I read the ad Hawktime and its says and I quote "Specially selected multi generation captive bred, selectively bred from outstanding parents for temperament, colour and overall health."
> Where does it say natural my son, who the hell is Denver? and who cares who doesnt use the inernet.



Haha, good to see I still have some anonymity...:lol:

I'm staying out of this one...

Denver


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## Retic (Oct 1, 2008)

Probably best Den, although it is better than the Comedy Channel


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## Den from Den Pythons (Oct 1, 2008)

True ASH...hahaha


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## Retic (Oct 1, 2008)

I don't see what all the fuss is about to be honest, if you like a snake then buy it but don't buy it because of it's name. People have been doing this for years and because of the way the hobby has grown it is becoming more prevalent and has become a means of obviously differentiating between different lines. It has nothing to do with the fact that the feature may or may not be present in wild animals, that is irrelevant.


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## nikay11 (Oct 1, 2008)

BROWNS said:


> Yeah OK I saw the part where it says morelia spilota mcdoweli etc but it still doesn't make it6 a Northen Rainforest or desert etc etc diamond ,it makes it an intergrade and should therefore be advertised as such.
> 
> What about new comers to the hobby buying one of these and thinking it's actually a pure diamond where maybe when having the animal sold an explanation is given that it is not a diamond but an intergrade so again why not advertise it as such?*They're absolutely gorgeous carpets* and if there is a known locality to where they originated from such as Port Mac or Kempsey,Dorrigo etc then advertise it as a Dorrigo intergrade not a Northern rainforest diamond?
> 
> The Worleys have a great reputation in this hobby so I can't see wthe need to put designer names to animqals which are simply integrades and if from a specific locality would fetch even more money than something called a Northern Rainforest Diamond as they are not they are Northern Intergrades,that's a fact and nothing will change it...keep it real people!!!


 
If its not a pure diamond then why do you keep calling it a carpet?(it can't be an intergrade with just a carpet)


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## Retic (Oct 1, 2008)

They are all carpets, Diamonds, Jungles, Coastals, Darwins.


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## haymista (May 4, 2009)

btw Kels Northern Rainforests won competitions in both the Macherps Expo and the Wild Expo this year. I dont usally like intergrades but for these guys ill make an exception


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## -Peter (May 4, 2009)

I have seen a wildcaught animal from the "Northern Rainforest" area that is a double to the Worley's. So the genetics are definately there in the raw.
I know that one of the lesser prize winners was a wild caught animal so there is no question to its lineage.

I know who you are Den.


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## Perko (May 4, 2009)

haymista said:


> btw Kels Northern Rainforests won competitions in both the Macherps Expo and the Wild Expo this year. I dont usally like intergrades but for these guys ill make an exception


 


You might want to make sure your correct before posting pics of other peoples animals.
It was Kels Diamonds that won at Mac herp show, and the pic you posted ( thats Kels) is a pure Diamond.


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## haymista (May 4, 2009)

lol ok Kel told me the ones with the striped and irregular patterning (northern rainforest) were a very similar bloodline and they colour up the same as that photo, i didnt say it was a northern rainforest, but they are similar.


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## Perko (May 4, 2009)

haymista said:


> lol ok Kel told me the ones with the striped and irregular patterning (northern rainforest) were a very similar bloodline and they colour up the same as that photo, i didnt say it was a northern rainforest, but they are similar.


 

Are you a Politician?


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## haymista (May 4, 2009)

are you having a bad day?


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## chondrogreen (May 4, 2009)

herpkeeper said:


> the use of "names" is just a selling ploy ! honey jungles, northern rain forest Diamonds, 80/20, ocre bhp's, super stripe OH PLEASE give us a break ! when i first started out in this industry well over a decade ago, if you perchased a jungle carpet for instance, it was either a black & gold or a black & white not some ****y named thing, a BHP was either QLD or NT form, not some ****y named U- Beaut what ever, anyone who has been around know's that you get BHP's in QLD for instance ranging from cream with brown bands, pale yellow with reddish bands and so on and so on. As I stated, this is just a way for people to market their animals by giving them some ****y name :evil: and as for all the the ball greasing :evil: spare us for christ sake !


 
Claiming a bloodline as your own or titling a species with some BS name should be limited to those that have bred multi generations of them and proven the trait to be recessive. Anyone can throw out 1 stunning and unusual animal from a clutch IMO, but that shouldn't enable them to claim it as a special line. The so called Topaz & pin stripe looking Womas have been fluke bred by many keepers including USA members. Try searching a few USA websites and see how long ago they were posted. Honey jungles are nothing more than dull, colourless Cheyne. Chocolate Diamonds (jokingly or not) are your average Diamond type. etc etc etc blah blah blah.

Another thing is breeding for temprement, how is this achieved?
So called "dog tame" species. Snakes are individuals and come with all attitude types.

And if you look at all these "big breeders" named in this thread, they have only been known or involved in the hobby for a couple of years. Those member of 20+ years are mostly sitting on the sidelines selling their animals privately and not bothering with names, websites or other selling tools to big note themselves, because they realize how stuffed up this hobby has become and they know that by keeping their name "small time" will avoid the knockers & defamation etc that is rife on internet forums.

Just my humble opinion.


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## mungus (May 4, 2009)

Wonder when these " rainforest Diamonds " were wild caught to produce this new line.
Very good marketing ploy in my opinion.
I like how some of you say that these people breed the best reptiles, there legends, WHAT you never heard of them ??? etc.......lol
Its great to have an opinion, but dont force it down our gob's when we dont agree with you.
What makes me laugh is that these people have never bred a thing themselves, yet they are all experts on what is considered a "cracker " snake..........LOL.
Learn to Toss a salad instead........................


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