# Impact of felines on native birds



## alichamp (Oct 8, 2017)

Let's not get nasty here. this is interesting evidence quantifying the impact of cats' natural predatory behaviour on native birds. While we don't know numbers, we do know this behaviour is not limited to birds but also applies to our native reptiles (and other small animals). 
For whom the bell tolls: cats kill more than a million Australian birds every day, _The Conversation_, 4 October.


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## vampstorso (Oct 8, 2017)

A cat kindly used my son's netted trampoline recently to slaughter a bird and leave it's skull all over the mat, blood everywhere, and the bird still whole except its head.

My poor 2 year old almost found it before I did.

I think cats make great pets...
But if your cat roams into my yard, I won't be sad if the dog gets it.

We live in a semi rural area and all the neighbours let their cats roam.
I recently tried to look up nuecence cat laws.
Weirdly, they're basically protected. It's disgusting.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Oct 8, 2017)

It's people as always that are the problem.
People choose to allow these animals to roam.
People make rules that make this invasive species permissible to own in Oz.
People can't be bothered to look after their animals any longer and set them free.

While I'm not a cat person I don't blame the animal as it's just doing what comes naturally.

On a side note I read somewhere recently that a million birds are also killed each year by cars.


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## danyjv (Oct 8, 2017)

I still find it bizarre to think people let there cat out and think it's ok . I picture it in terms of a dog 
and you don't do that ( let it roam to come back when it's hungry) so why do all my neighbours do it it's there cats ?? 
I don't blame the cats as said before it's what there wired to do ... I know they sit in the park near me waiting for the wrens to land and in the mulberry tree next door waiting for the lorikeets to land . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bl69aze (Oct 8, 2017)

A lot of cats that wander into others yards are either not desexed or are strays from my experience...

All 3 of my cats don’t leave our backyard or front yard... yes they hunt and kill birds usually Indian miners luckily, 

They get stressed when they are inside and start going bald...

Not really much can be done untill it’s law that ****tards aren’t allowed to let their undesexed cat out so it can go knock up 5odd females in a day leading to more strays


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## dragonlover1 (Oct 8, 2017)

I'm not a cat person but if people want to keep them;keep them INSIDE !!!
I am currently looking after my son's rescue kat till he moves into his new house,it has been inside for 14 years and it will stay inside!
I can't stand imbeciles who think it's okay to let their feral killers loose on small animals.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 3, 2017)

I have spent many years perfecting my cat trapping skills and now trapping even the most cautious of cats, feral or domestic is as simple a task as brushing my teeth. I was raised from the age of 3 - 21 on a remote bush property in the upper Macleay valley in NSW and my parents HATED cats and that along with my bush upbringing, seeing the impact they have on our native fauna saw me grow up to absolutely despise them and the people who let them free roam. They say cats have 9 lives... well they use them all up in one hit when they run into me, game over, roll the credits. 

My latest catch. A big heavy tomcat, a real bird destroyer. 



I can trap anything, be it dogs, foxes, cats, rats, possums, Indian Mynas, have even trapped blue tongues for the purpose of relocation. Cats however are my primary target. It has been said that currently there's about 23 million feral cats on mainland Australia right now causing the biggest wave of extinction since European settlement. 
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...al-cats-re-write-the-australian-story/5802204


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## Mouse (Nov 12, 2017)

Do we really need to tar all cats with the same brush...?
I have a big ginger moggie who is desexed, he lives outside all the time. He's a hunter, but the little birds don't interest him, mice aren't worth the effort either. His forte is rabbits, quail, and pigeon. He did bring me home a 4ft brown snake but after being bitten he doesn't touch snakes anymore. 
Why would I restrict his territory, when he's doing me a favour cleaning up the rabbit population.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 12, 2017)

Mouse said:


> Do we really need to tar all cats with the same brush...?
> I have a big ginger moggie who is desexed, he lives outside all the time. He's a hunter, but the little birds don't interest him, mice aren't worth the effort either. His forte is rabbits, quail, and pigeon. He did bring me home a 4ft brown snake but after being bitten he doesn't touch snakes anymore.
> Why would I restrict his territory, when he's doing me a favour cleaning up the rabbit population.


Because you have only seen what he has brought home, not what he has killed in between the rabbits and quails. It should be caged permanently. Cats DO NOT belong outside!


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## Yellowtail (Nov 12, 2017)

My German Shepherds generally keep cats and foxes out of my yard and they do not attack wild life even when birds take their food but I have a large block and my bird aviaries are a long way from the house and the dogs are mostly indoors at night. A very smart cat seems so know when the dogs are indoors and is terrorising my black cockatoo aviary, I've seen it early mornings on my cctv and let the dogs out but it hears the door and is gone before the dogs get down there. I've distributed a flyer to the nearest few neighbours advising it will be trapped and disposed of but no answer and it's still coming, looks too well cared for to be a feral. I would like to shoot the damm thing but I think thats illegal. My yard is like a sanctuary for wild life with blueys, red bellied blacks, green tree snakes, possums and lots of birds that co-exist with the dogs during the day, even have peacocks (refugees from a nearby Koala Park) and scrub turkeys visit and they seem to know the dogs are not a threat.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 12, 2017)

We have awesome laws in the City of Logan in Queensland. If you have a cat coming on to your property whether it being feral or domestic you can borrow a cat trap from the council and place it in your yard. Once caught you ring the council and they will pick it up to deal with it. We also have a regulation that doesn't allow cats to be outside under any circumstance.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 12, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> We have awesome laws in the City of Logan in Queensland. If you have a cat coming on to your property whether it being feral or domestic you can borrow a cat trap from the council and place it in your yard. Once caught you ring the council and they will pick it up to deal with it. We also have a regulation that doesn't allow cats to be outside under any circumstance.


I wish we had these laws here.I live in the burbs (the tiny remainder of the once huge bush nearby doesn't count as bush) but I still get feral cats here, I keep chooks so get lot's of freeloaders after the seed.The cat's are always killing something,screaming under my house at night and crapping in my frontyard.
I tried mothballs under the house and it seemed to work for a while but they re back again


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## Scutellatus (Nov 12, 2017)

dragonlover1 said:


> I wish we had these laws here.I live in the burbs (the tiny remainder of the once huge bush nearby doesn't count as bush) but I still get feral cats here, I keep chooks so get lot's of freeloaders after the seed.The cat's are always killing something,screaming under my house at night and crapping in my frontyard.
> I tried mothballs under the house and it seemed to work for a while but they re back again


You can pick up the traps for a couple of hundred. Catch them and maybe take them to your local pound for destruction.

https://traps.com.au/product/csd310-spring-door-cat-trap/


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 12, 2017)

Mouse said:


> Do we really need to tar all cats with the same brush...?
> I have a big ginger moggie who is desexed, he lives outside all the time. He's a hunter, but the little birds don't interest him, mice aren't worth the effort either. His forte is rabbits, quail, and pigeon. He did bring me home a 4ft brown snake but after being bitten he doesn't touch snakes anymore.
> Why would I restrict his territory, when he's doing me a favour cleaning up the rabbit population.


I don't know where you live but it's illegal up here to have your cat outside period. If your cat was outside here and someone reported the fact, it would be confiscated by council, or trapped and destroyed. Toowoomba is full of vigilante cat trappers like myself... They will be caught and destroyed.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 12, 2017)

Aussiepride83 said:


> I don't know where you live but it's illegal up here to have your cat outside period. If your cat was outside here and someone reported the fact, it would be confiscated by council, or trapped and destroyed. Toowoomba is full of vigilante cat trappers like myself... They will be caught and destroyed.


Toowoomba council laws state that it must be confined to your property, so they are allowed outside, they are just not allowed to roam off your property.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 12, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> Toowoomba council laws state that it must be confined to your property, so they are allowed outside, they are just not allowed to roam off your property.


No, in Toowoomba, confined to your property means confined inside your house 24/7, they are not actually allowed outside unless confined inside an escape proof cat run that's attached to the house. I reported a neighbour who had his cat outside, the ranger asked me for a time and date stamped photograph as proof so I took one of the cat sitting atop his rainwater tank less than 1m from my carport roof... within an hour the ranger rocked up and bye bye kitty.


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## azzmilan (Nov 12, 2017)

It appears that a rising number of councils these days are pushing for stricter laws around cats, such as keeping them indoors, curfews ect. It's not perfect but the education is happening and I think the future is looking better.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 12, 2017)

azzmilan said:


> It appears that a rising number of councils these days are pushing for stricter laws around cats, such as keeping them indoors, curfews ect. It's not perfect but the education is happening and I think the future is looking better.


The one gripe I have with the council here is that cat owners aren't required to have their cats registered, just microchipped. That is a joke if you ask me considering all dogs must be registered.


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## Scutellatus (Nov 12, 2017)

Aussiepride83 said:


> No, in Toowoomba, confined to your property means confined inside your house 24/7, they are not actually allowed outside unless confined inside an escape proof cat run that's attached to the house. I reported a neighbour who had his cat outside, the ranger asked me for a time and date stamped photograph as proof so I took one of the cat sitting atop his rainwater tank less than 1m from my carport roof... within an hour the ranger rocked up and bye bye kitty.


Taken from Toowoomba City Council website:

provide adequate fencing or an enclosure to confine your cat to your property at all times, or be able to demonstrate to a Council Officer how you confine your cat if you do not have adequate fencing or an enclosure

Make a decision about how you would like to confine your cat, taking into consideration budget and other personal factors. Examples of confinement include cat proofing your yard, building an enclosure or confining your cat inside your house eat way of allowing your cat the best of both worlds. It can still go outside but cannot escape your property.

I believe they should be kept inside.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 12, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> Taken from Toowoomba City Council website:
> 
> provide adequate fencing or an enclosure to confine your cat to your property at all times, or be able to demonstrate to a Council Officer how you confine your cat if you do not have adequate fencing or an enclosure
> 
> ...


Trust me, I've lived here for 15 years, fencing does not confine a cat, have you seen those new cat nets that literally cover your entire house and yard like a big mosquito net?? That's what they're talking about... and nobody does that... so the only containment option is to keep them inside... or in a cat run that nobody builds because of $$$... If your cat is outside your house here, sitting in your driveway, a tree in your yard, your back deck, on your car, without such confinement measures, it WILL get taken away if reported.


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## dragonlover1 (Nov 12, 2017)

Scutellatus said:


> You can pick up the traps for a couple of hundred. Catch them and maybe take them to your local pound for destruction.


If I trap them they aren't going to council


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 12, 2017)

dragonlover1 said:


> If I trap them they aren't going to council


Pretty much the same here... they go sleeping... with the fishes...


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## Stompsy (Nov 13, 2017)

Wow guys... that's someone's pet you're talking about drowning. I have no issues with setting traps and having the council pick up any cats that are caught, but I feel it's just a little bit 'grab your torch and pitch forks' when members here start gloating about having killed that animal themselves. Not everyone who owns a cat knows the laws in the area and I'd hope having to pay to have the cat released every time you trap it, would be enough to make them keep it inside. 

I am completely on board with keeping cats inside.. mine is indoors 24/7 unless going to a wander out the back on a leash, but if she ever escaped, I would hope no one would trap and kill her.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

G'day mate, the big problem with cats are... As much as people hate them, they're not stupid animals... they get "trap shy" once trapped... You will rarely if ever, EVER get a second chance at trapping a cat once you've got it once... I have only ever successfully re-trapped a cat once and it took over 12 months and a painstaking effort to totally disguise the trap as a cardboard box inside and out while still being able to function and I had to disable the foot-plate trip mechanism and remotely activate it with about 100m of nylon fishing line attached to a screwdriver... If the irresponsible owners get a second chance by their pets getting returned, and then a week later I find this in my yard because they've just put their cat out again... 


Where's my second chance?? Doesn't exist... 

You get one chance and one chance only.


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## Stompsy (Nov 13, 2017)

I'm sorry but that still doesn't give you license to kill someone's pet. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand the impact cats have on our native wildlife, that's part of the reason why I have my cat indoors only, but I still hold the same opinion that it isn't your job to catch and kill. 

And also, it isn't the cats fault that it's owners are irresponsible.... education is the key.. well that and better, harsher (humane) laws.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

Stompsy said:


> I'm sorry but that still doesn't give you license to kill someone's pet. And don't get me wrong, I completely understand the impact cats have on our native wildlife, that's part of the reason why I have my cat indoors only, but I still hold the same opinion that it isn't your job to catch and kill.
> 
> And also, it isn't the cats fault that it's owners are irresponsible.... education is the key.. well that and better, harsher (humane) laws.


And that's never going to happen... Like the jews still waiting for the Messiah. Don't get me wrong, I don't dispose of them myself, not my place, however I don't take them to council who will put up notices etc and all the garbage, I take them straight to a mate who's a ranger and they're scanned for a chip, no chip, euthanised... if they have a chip, they go to the pound where the owner can collect them.


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## Stompsy (Nov 13, 2017)

I liken it to the 'only good snake is a dead snake' mentality. But we try to educate those people... not drown them.

I can say that I have successfully changed people's minds about keeping their cats indoors, just by giving them my reasons for doing so and ensuring I educate them when they try to tell me that their cats don't kill wildlife. Maybe you could try that instead of killing a small child's pet.. I dunno, just a suggestion.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

Stompsy said:


> I liken it to the 'only good snake is a dead snake' mentality. But we try to educate those people... not drown them.
> 
> I can say that I have successfully changed people's minds about keeping their cats indoors, just by giving them my reasons for doing so and ensuring I educate them when they try to tell me that their cats don't kill wildlife. Maybe you could try that instead of killing a small child's pet.. I dunno, just a suggestion.


23 million roaming cats on the continent right now... killing 75 million native animals every single night... I appreciate what you're saying but it's a fool's errand. The horse has bolted, it's time for action.


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## NicG (Nov 13, 2017)

It staggers me that cat ownership is still legal. We have all sorts of importation restrictions that are designed to protect our native wildlife, and yet we do nothing to curtail the worst one.

Why hasn't a line-in-the-sand been drawn yet? I'm not advocating the destruction of anyone's pet, but compulsory desexing of all cats needs to occur now. That would be followed by a law which bans all cat ownership in 20 - preferably 15 - years time.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

NicG said:


> It staggers me that cat ownership is still legal. We have all sorts of importation restrictions that are designed to protect our native wildlife, and yet we do nothing to curtail the worst one.
> 
> Why hasn't a line-in-the-sand been drawn yet? I'm not advocating the destruction of anyone's pet, but compulsory desexing of all cats needs to occur now. That would be followed by a law which bans all cat ownership in 20 - preferably 15 - years time.


I agree entirely!


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## Nero Egernia (Nov 13, 2017)

Ironic that should someone discuss dogs in the same light, the cat haters would protest vehemently. While the problem of dogs may not be as widespread as cats, it's very real. I don't know how many times I've come across dogs that have killed frogs, lizards, snakes, turtles, birds, small and big native mammals alike - and yet no one cries for their eradication. Dogs may not even have to kill their quarry to have an impact. The so called innocuous activity of dogs chasing animals for "fun" displaces our natives from their home territories, sometimes with dire consequences. 

Frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing these types of posts. Most reptile enthusiasts are fully aware of the impact cats have on our native wildlife. Why don't you post your ideas in the cat forums? Now there's some minds that would stand to benefit from learning that allowing their pets to free roam is disastrous for our native wildlife. 

And Kev, your posts don't appear to align much with the quote in your signature.


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> Ironic that should someone discuss dogs in the same light, the cat haters would protest vehemently. While the problem of dogs may not be as widespread as cats, it's very real. I don't know how many times I've come across dogs that have killed frogs, lizards, snakes, turtles, birds, small and big native mammals alike - and yet no one cries for their eradication. Dogs may not even have to kill their quarry to have an impact. The so called innocuous activity of dogs chasing animals for "fun" displaces our natives from their home territories, sometimes with dire consequences.
> 
> Frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing these types of posts. Most reptile enthusiasts are fully aware of the impact cats have on our native wildlife. Why don't you post your ideas in the cat forums? Now there's some minds that would stand to benefit from learning that allowing their pets to free roam is disastrous for our native wildlife.
> 
> And Kev, your posts don't appear to align much with the quote in your signature.


Oh Yeah? Show me where I've mistreated any animal, cats included.... comparing dogs to cats for wildlife impact is nothing short of a joke. Anyway... the bleeding hearts and Do gooders are the reason this country is in a downward spiral. Cats should be banned outright and then we could begin to think about repairing the damage done.


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## Yellowtail (Nov 13, 2017)

Oshkii said:


> Ironic that should someone discuss dogs in the same light, the cat haters would protest vehemently. While the problem of dogs may not be as widespread as cats, it's very real. I don't know how many times I've come across dogs that have killed frogs, lizards, snakes, turtles, birds, small and big native mammals alike - and yet no one cries for their eradication. Dogs may not even have to kill their quarry to have an impact. The so called innocuous activity of dogs chasing animals for "fun" displaces our natives from their home territories, sometimes with dire consequences.
> 
> Frankly, I'm getting tired of seeing these types of posts. Most reptile enthusiasts are fully aware of the impact cats have on our native wildlife. Why don't you post your ideas in the cat forums? Now there's some minds that would stand to benefit from learning that allowing their pets to free roam is disastrous for our native wildlife.
> 
> And Kev, your posts don't appear to align much with the quote in your signature.



I regularly get into arguments with people taking their dogs off leash on National Park tracks (they are not allowed even on leash with a $3300 fine) They try to justify it because they have small "harmless dogs" but seem to be unaware that chasing and killing small animals is exactly what these breeds were developed for and lead to the demise of any poor bluey that comes into their yard. My German Shepherds accept the local wild life as part of the family and don't chase anything, even share their food bowl with birds but that is what they were bred for, to protect their family and flock.


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## Smittiferous (Nov 13, 2017)

This old chestnut again, hey? It’s been done to death already. Can a mod please lock this thread?


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## Flaviemys purvisi (Nov 13, 2017)

Yellowtail said:


> I regularly get into arguments with people taking their dogs off leash on National Park tracks (they are not allowed even on leash with a $3300 fine) They try to justify it because they have small "harmless dogs" but seem to be unaware that chasing and killing small animals is exactly what these breeds were developed for and lead to the demise of any poor bluey that comes into their yard. My German Shepherds accept the local wild life as part of the family and don't chase anything, even share their food bowl with birds but that is what they were bred for, to protect their family and flock.


I have had the same argument with people doing the same with dogs here... I was doing a wildlife survey and trapping fish for AFT to document the numbers of native VS introduced species at a lake here in Toowoomba when a retard came right up and let her dogs off leash (prohibited) then abused me when I informed her that her off leash dogs were interfering with what I was doing... Some people are just born stupid I guess... she was even happy to pose while I took her photo to report her. Had a mouth on her like a drunken sailor.




When her stupid dogs got entangled in my lines, she was getting up me... Lol what a nimrod.

Carrying on, I discovered some non-native Murray River turtles... These will be removed.


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