# Help With Ackie Pair Please.



## Hago1 (May 18, 2017)

Got a male ackie around two months ago, he was used only for breeding. A few weeks ago I saw a female for sale and got her hoping they'd breed. Everything seemed to be going well, they were mating and seemed to like each other only she is constantly on him. She rides his back and climbs all over him. He didn't seem bothered so I left them to it but I've been noticing he's got scratches that are beginning to bleed. I separated them this afternoon, but is this normal behaviour?

And how do I tell if she knocked up?


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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

Hago1 said:


> Got a male ackie around two months ago, he was used only for breeding. A few weeks ago I saw a female for sale and got her hoping they'd breed. Everything seemed to be going well, they were mating and seemed to like each other only she is constantly on him. She rides his back and climbs all over him. He didn't seem bothered so I left them to it but I've been noticing he's got scratches that are beginning to bleed. I separated them this afternoon, but is this normal behaviour?
> 
> And how do I tell if she knocked up?


Have they been cooled?

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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

I was going to say get a pregnancy test but that would of been silly. Now u need to wait and keep your eyes on her

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## Hago1 (May 18, 2017)

What is that? 
I've been learning as I go, just googling what they needed. I couldn't find anything on a female scratching until the male bled.


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## Hago1 (May 18, 2017)

Haha pregnancy test. 
Alright so just wait to see if she gets fat?


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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

Not always visible. Ive had female ackies drop eggs that didn't look like she should so i would also just give her something to lay in just in case and maybe seperate her from the male incase your not around when she lays

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## Hago1 (May 18, 2017)

What's cooled? I'm googling is it something to do with breeding. I don't want to hurt or stress them.


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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

If they have both been at it its probably not an issue. But if the female is keen but the male not im wondering if he's had a brumation period. Whack something in there for her to lay eggs in and see how u go.

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## Hago1 (May 18, 2017)

Sheldoncooper said:


> If they have both been at it its probably not an issue. But if the female is keen but the male not im wondering if he's had a brumation period. Whack something in there for her to lay eggs in and see how u go.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Okay so I've read up on what you've mentioned. Originally I had him in a cage with a heat pad. When I got her she came with an enclosure (biggish) with heat lamps. I've put them together and saw them mating. But I've kept that lamp on constantly for the 2-3 weeks I've had her. I've since read up on cooling since you mentioned it and I think they're really hot! It says they'd be stressed. She does seem stressed now I look at it from that perspective that's probably why she's constantly digging and scratching at him and the glass. He's really docile and and just lies around they both try to dig under their water bowl. They're separate now and I've turned the heat off. I feel terrible I just assumed they were supposed to be in heat all the time.


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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

How hot is the enclosure. Ackies like heat mate. To be honest most enclosures aren't hot enough. I see alot of fat ackies, and they shouldn't be, they are generally an active monitor. Enclosure temp of 40 degrees isn't too hot as long as they have somewhere to escape to if they want too. The pilbara can reach 50 degrees 

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## Scutellatus (May 18, 2017)

Cooling refers to a period of much cooler temperatures to simulate what a winter would be like for them in the wild. This cooling stimulates the breeding behavior once the weather starts to warm up again in spring.


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## pinefamily (May 18, 2017)

Perhaps before trying to breed them, you should have done some research before, instead of as you go.
One other issue you might encounter is introducing two older ackies can be dangerous; one can turn on the other at any time. Perhaps that is what you've seen, instead of mating, given the scratches.
@Sheldoncooper, what do you think?


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## Sheldoncooper (May 18, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Perhaps before trying to breed them, you should have done some research before, instead of as you go.
> One other issue you might encounter is introducing two older ackies can be dangerous; one can turn on the other at any time. Perhaps that is what you've seen, instead of mating, given the scratches.
> @Sheldoncooper, what do you think?


Yeh thats another possibility. I would introduce them after cooling myself that way hopefully they both have the same thing in mind. If one of them is bleeding then something isn't right, your confident u have a definite pair ? 
I would only introduce them y I'm there and seperate when I'm not. I had one of my adult males latch on to me and only cold tap water enticed him to let go, i felt his teeth scratching against the bone on my finger he tasted blood and wouldn't let go. So if one of them wanted to they could kill the other quite quickly. There not all compatible 

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## Hago1 (May 19, 2017)

pinefamily said:


> Perhaps before trying to breed them, you should have done some research before, instead of as you go.
> One other issue you might encounter is introducing two older ackies can be dangerous; one can turn on the other at any time. Perhaps that is what you've seen, instead of mating, given the scratches.
> @Sheldoncooper, what do you think?



I should have.

So I'll keep the heat then but do you recommend turning the light off at night? and keep them separate mostly with some time together while I'm around them. I'll get a picture of the scratches they don't look like she's been purposely trying to attack him and they are both not aggressive at all, she just spends all day climbing him. 

I read up on the babies so I don't accidentally do dumb **** to them too.
He's bigger but do you think she should have the bigger enclosure for nest choice?


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## Hago1 (May 19, 2017)

*The scratches on him, and my enclosure, is that light okay on 24/7*


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## pinefamily (May 19, 2017)

Is that a red light? If it is, you need to change it for a white light to mimic the sun. You can pick up suitable globes at Bunnings. And no, you don't need the light on 24/7, just set it to come on about 8, and to go off about 6. Although, if you're thinking about brumation, those times will change.


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## Hago1 (May 19, 2017)

Yes it's a red light it came with the enclosure. So a white UV light is more preferable and times for on and off. Does he need anything on his scratches, I don't want him to get an infection. 

And they're definitely mating he gets on her and sort of goes side ways under her tail then he thrusts abit to get in. I've not watched constantly, the first day they mated I went out all day so not sure what happened. They got along right away.


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## GBWhite (May 19, 2017)

Hi Hago,

From what you describe and the photo you provided of your lizard and enclosure I'm of the belief that she is climbing on the male as a means to dominate as well as a result of competition to access heat. You really need to reconfigure your enclosure to make it more compatible for both lizards to share if that's your intention. However; be warned that housing two adult Ackies together (be they of the same or opposite sex) that have not originated from the same clutch or been housed and grown together since a very young age usually results in injury or even death to to one or more of the animals. Not only will males fight but it appears the the social system of Ackies seems to include an alpha female that will attack not only other females but smaller males to. This activity seems to be more prevalent when subadult or adult lizards are sourced from different clutches or breeders are placed together. From what I read of your post it seems evident to me that this is probably the situation with your animals. 

A UV light can be provided to assist with vitamin D production but it won't be useful as a heat source. Ackies need a high temperature environment to remain healthy and active. Get rid of the red light and use a 75 - 100 watt spot light. Direct the beam to heat a basking spot (such as a clay paving brick, a piece of shale, a piece of sandstone or granite rock or even a dark coloured tile) so it reaches a surface temperature of between 60 and 70 deg C. The ambient temperature gradient of the enclosure should range from around 37 deg C at the warm end to the high 20's at the cool end.

If the wooden box in the enclosure is a hide then you need to get rid of it as it is totally useless if it is intended for both lizards to share. Ackies love to squeeze between rocks and / or cracks in branches as a means to maintain body temperature and to feel secure. As an alternative to providing a single basking spot a lot of people these days provide a timber or tile stack with sections separated just enough for a lizard to squeeze into. The heat source is directed toward the top platform of the stack to provide an effective basking spot and once the lizard has reached its optimal temperature it has the opportunity to retreat to one section of the stack to a comfortable and secure environment. You can google examples of how the stacks are made and the best way to utilize them.

If you are housing more than one lizard in the cage then you need to provide multiple hides across the temperature gradient. This will provide secure refuges for the lizards and will reduce any dominating behaviour. It's also a good idea to provide a deep, slightly moist sand substrate to allow the lizards to dig. This will allow them a safe retreat from a dominating cage mate and also assist with them remaining hydrated.

If you believe that they have successfully mated then, for the welfare of the male and safety of any future clutch, it might just be a good idea to remove the male to a separate enclosure and set it up as described above. Then place a suitable laying box in the female's enclosure for her to deposit any future clutches of eggs. Again you can access how to make one of these on the net.

Hope this helps but the best advice I can give you is to purchase a book on the husbandry of small monitors as well as access care sheets for Ackies on the net. 

George.


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## Sheldoncooper (May 19, 2017)

Hago1 said:


> Yes it's a red light it came with the enclosure. So a white UV light is more preferable and times for on and off. Does he need anything on his scratches, I don't want him to get an infection.
> 
> And they're definitely mating he gets on her and sort of goes side ways under her tail then he thrusts abit to get in. I've not watched constantly, the first day they mated I went out all day so not sure what happened. They got along right away.


How many light holders do u have in the enclosure? I turn my lights off on all my reptiles some people leave them on all the time with ackies, if they have a few housed together i guess it ensures that they all get basking time if there's a dominant one in there. If your confident its only mating behavior they should be ok. However if he is bleeding id remove him. I would probably knock myself up an retes stack or ackie stack if u Google it you'll see what they are. A good idea especially if she's gravid.

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