# A Good Read



## Pauls_Pythons (May 22, 2018)

Was put onto this blog tonight and I think its a good read particularly for those who are fairly new to the hobby.

https://medium.com/@morelialife33/anthropomorphism-an-unhealthy-trend-a4674f6961bc


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## Mick666 (May 23, 2018)

So, is there a BMI guideline for snakes. for example a jungle python should be so many grams per cm? or grams per year of age? I feed about every ten days, weekly for girls that are being bred (coming into winter). Hatchies i feed every five days or so. Should we feed breeding girls more to get them ready? or give them the same as the boys.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 23, 2018)

Good question Mick but I don't think there is an easy answer.
My feeding regimes are not hugely disimilar to yours. (Though I'm not saying I have it right)
Hatchies 5 days but as I upsize food I reduce feeding frequency. I have 3-4 month old hatchies at the moment on a 10 day feed and heading out to 2 weeks at the next upsize.
Breeding females I admit to feeding around every 10 days but do monitor weight and reduce food size accordingly. I do this to keep the metabolism pumping otherwise I feel they will just slow down. 
The biggest issue I see is feeding overly large & fat rodents. Why people feel the need to feed something a 400g rat I have no idea when 2 x 200g rats would be a much leaner food source.

There is also the fasting period to take into account. Of course the breeding adults will go through their 5-6 months without food which goes towards controlling their weight. I'm a big believer in 'wintering' all my animals and I think this is where many get it severely wrong.

My adult males are fed more sparingly, 2-3 weeks, relatively small feeds for the size of the animals.
Adult Diamonds are only fed every 3-4 weeks if I remember.


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## pythoninfinite (May 23, 2018)

Mick666 said:


> So, is there a BMI guideline for snakes. for example a jungle python should be so many grams per cm? or grams per year of age? I feed about every ten days, weekly for girls that are being bred (coming into winter). Hatchies i feed every five days or so. Should we feed breeding girls more to get them ready? or give them the same as the boys.



There are no guidelines - just as there are no reliable or "expected" growth rates for snakes - they grow into their food, and if you feed them heaps, they will grow fast. I'm sure Scott Borden would shudder at your feeding regime of weekly to 10 days for adult snakes - it's way more than they need to maintain good health, and as he says, you are probably jeopardising their longevity. Most pythons will thrive on a meal every 3-6 weeks, the longer interval for mature adults, but they won't grow as fast. It may take them double the time to reach whatever we regard as a reasonable size. But rapid growth seems to be the most important and well established norm for keepers these days, even some with a lot of experience. I see quite a few pythons locally, some on our property, and some are "regulars." They are all in pretty good, lean condition most of the time. Compared to the great fat slugs of snakes I see in some collections, there is no comparison. But I bet I know which ones will live longer lives - the wild ones also have a 6 month break from all the ramped-up metabolic rates we force on our captive animals with exposure to constant heat and food. It simply can't be good for them in the long term. Wild pythons will often lie in an ambush spot for weeks before a meal comes along, and if it doesn't, they simply move to another spot and wait.

I feed my pythons very erratically, maybe a week or two between feeds, then I might miss feeding them for 4-5 weeks, despite them indicating their hunger. The GTPs especially, as a lazy species, are fed less, and generally not until they start moving around their enclosure looking for an ambush spot. If they just hang their head off the perch where they normally sit and wait for me to put food into their mouth, it's not enough, or they would NEVER move. Sure we can grow them quick, get a few clutches from them in the first 10 years... but then what? 

Having said that, I am always tempted to feed them more because it's a satisfying thing for ME to do... but in the longer term it is not good for the snake. The exception may be that we feed our hatchies a lot to get them out of the fragile stage as soon as possible, and I wouldn't have a clue if this has any long-term ill effects as the snake progresses through adult life.

An interesting read with regard to feeding, captive vs wild, is "Green Tree Pythons, Natural History and Captive Maintenance" by Justin Julander and Terry Phillip. I absolutely agree with the conclusions both authors reach with regard to feeding our snakes, and it applies not just to GTPs.

Jamie


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## Mick666 (May 23, 2018)

I was recently given a pair of (I think 4 year old) Diamonds by a guy who works away from home a lot and hasn't the time to look after them properly anymore. I was a bit worried about how skinny they were, their skin was loose and saggy it reminded me of what my girls looked like after they laid eggs. so they've been getting weekly feeds. should I slow down the feeds or wait until they have a bit better muscle tone?


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## pythoninfinite (May 23, 2018)

If they've got that baggy just laid eggs look, they could be a bit thin - hard to say without seeing them though, and it's hard to explain what a "healthy" weight looks like if you don't see wild pythons occasionally. of course, not all wild pythons are in similar condition either, but I think you can get a feel for what a healthy weight looks like after you've seen a few. You'll probably find that 3 or 4 weekly feeds is pretty much all it takes to get them back into fairly good condition, and then you can slow it down a bit.

Jamie


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## Mick666 (May 23, 2018)

yeah I don't think it will take very long to get them toned up. My girls put the weight back on in no time. And the diamonds are good feeders.


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## Nero Egernia (May 23, 2018)

I would consider this girl overweight. When I hold my other pythons I can feel their muscles working, but with this girl she just feels like a, erm, blob. If I remember correctly her previous owner was feeding her a large rat every week.


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## Pauls_Pythons (May 23, 2018)

pythoninfinite said:


> Having said that, I am always tempted to feed them more because it's a satisfying thing for ME to do... but in the longer term it is not good for the snake.



This is a highly valid point. We are conditioned to our multiple feeds per day and it seems unnatural that any animal would eat so infrequently.
I think it was you Jamie or maybe it was Mike that used the term "a sniff of an oily rag" (or the proverbial bar maids apron) is about how much food an adult python actually needs.


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## Nero Egernia (May 23, 2018)

Wally said:


> I think those with a basic to intermediate understanding of python husbandry in captivity would be a little surprised as to how they can be fed successfully and healthy.
> 
> A sniff of an oily rag comes to mind if you've just got one in a tank to look at.



Here you go.


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## pythoninfinite (May 23, 2018)

Unlike warm-blooded creatures such as us, or most mammals, and birds which need constant stoking of our food fires to maintain body heat and brain function , snakes can reduce their energy usage by as much as 75% when they aren't feeding regularly, in fact the continual feeding most of us practice causes them to have a constantly elevated metabolic rate, because digestion uses quite a lot of energy. Around 18 years ago, I provided 8 SW Carpet Pythons for research into metabolic rates and the various influences which affect it. It was done by measuring the oxygen uptake at different times in the digestive cycle. It indicated a huge increase in the metabolic rate for about two weeks after a decent feed, than a rapid drop by as much as 75% as the system stabilised after digestion.

Jamie


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