# imported turtle on Harry's Practice



## Tommo (Dec 7, 2003)

i was watching harrys practise last night because he had a albino blue tongue at the start of the show and i was hoping he would come back to it. anyway they have this thing on the show when they talk to children about their pets. this little 6 year old kid was there and he says "this is my pet turtle. um i found him in my backyard." i then saw the turtle and noticed it wasnt a australian turtle. i grabed a reptile book and looked up turtles and i found out it was a painted turtle from north america. anyone else think its abit weird?


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2003)

what channel is harrys practice on i havent seen it since ages and wot time


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## Robert (Dec 7, 2003)

I have heard of a lady a long time ago in Qld who had the painted turts.She took them to the vet for a check up and the told her what she had and to get rid of them some how as she would get in big trouble if someone found out.Might have thrown them over the fence.


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## Keeth (Dec 7, 2003)

Ive heard that the red-eared sliders are starting to become popular in the Australian wild now. they were introduced from south america as well im pretty sure.


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## Tommo (Dec 7, 2003)

i doubt it was the old lady story because the turtle looked like a hatchling. harrys practise is on saturday night at 6:30 on channel seven.


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## wattso (Dec 7, 2003)

R.E.S red ear sliders have intergrated with Emydura species in the wild in some places, hybrids can be found but its illegal to keep them. shows what happens when foreign species invade an ecosystem. As for painteds, its likly the same situation, although I havent heard of it.


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## Already_Gone (Dec 7, 2003)

There were some exotic species found around sydney a few years ago, I believe they were RES to!! 

There is an aussie species of Painted turtles... Emydura subglobosa which are very cute and I want some to add to my collection!!!! Personally II don't find the exotic species of turtles appealing. Would you know what it was if you saw it again??


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## Tommo (Dec 7, 2003)

the turtle i saw looked like turtle number 2. it is abit hard to tell because the turtle was a hatchling. it had mainly yellow stippes on its head, legs and tail. thae are that wasnt striped was a browny green colour


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## adullthud (Dec 7, 2003)

Its a repeat from a few years ago and it is a red eared slider. 
But you'd think someone with the show would know something about exotics wouldnt you . Poor kid probably had his door kicked in at 3 am by AQIS and the Victorian police.( I had to shoot him, he pointed a turtle at me)
Occasionally get RES around Sydney and probably other staes. Some still held illegally by people. I am dubious about teh feral populations that are reported. Not saying they dont exist just not to the extent that they are purported. I have posted Wattso's post on another list to get a response. Will let you know.


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## wattso (Dec 7, 2003)

Poor kid probably had his door kicked in at 3 am by AQIS and the Victorian police.( I had to shoot him, he pointed a turtle at me) 
~ lmao 
I am dubious about teh feral populations that are reported. Not saying they dont exist just not to the extent that they are purported. I have posted Wattso's post on another list to get a response. Will let you know.
~ I didnt say we were crawling with r.E.S, just that they are out there!

Just realised I may be wrong about RES breeding with Emydura, it may be some other local species like chelodina perhaps. either way i remember reading a paper about it. ~cheers


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## wattso (Dec 8, 2003)

http://bss.sfsu.edu:224/courses/Fall01 projects/reslider.htm
http://www.scisnake.com/pets/slider.html
http://theturtlepages.crosswinds.net/species/t_scripta/

These pages contain mention of RES in australia.


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## wattso (Dec 8, 2003)

Peter, i searched till late but couldnt find the article i read about RES intergrating. hope you can find some solid info at yahoo turts. ~cheers


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## adullthud (Dec 8, 2003)

wattso said:


> R.E.S red ear sliders have intergrated with Emydura species in the wild in some places, hybrids can be found but its illegal to keep them. shows what happens when foreign species invade an ecosystem. As for painteds, its likly the same situation, although I havent heard of it.



Posted this on the turt list and got a few responses
Dont take offence at first response as second cools off.

Hi, 
thats a load of rubbish, Emydine and Chelid turtles cannot hybridise. 
Cheers, Scott 

Hi Craig, 
the ability to hybridise is not solely dependant on how closely related two species are but on how destructive to the species it is if it is possible. 
Chelodina longicollis and Emydura subglobosa can hybrise, as can C. longicollis and C. canni, C. canni and Macrochelodina rugosa. These are the only ones I am definitely aware of in Australia. 
When a species evolves there are several ways this can happen, if they evolve in sympatry then the new species must protect their genetic boundaries hence they usually become incompatible. If they evolve due to a vicariance event they may drift apart but often remain compatible. 
All sorts of hybrids are possible, but until its proven it can be done its better to assume it cannot. 
The Emydura all evolved very recently and it would seem that based on their distributions that this was largely done in sympatry. Hence it would be more likely that they cannot hybridise rather than that they can, this is what I meant by it being counter-tuitive. It does not make sense based on the evolutionary history of the genus that they could. However, I concede it is possible, but will only say it can happen when I see it. 
Cheers, Scott


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## wattso (Dec 9, 2003)

from same list, from craig latta, [very successful turtle breeder for many years]

: "Craig Latta" &lt;[email protected]> 
Date: Mon Dec 8, 2003 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: Taronga Zoo



Hi Scott,

Why can't a species from the same genus interbreed?
John Cann said you can get crosses between Elseya dentata and Elseya
latisternum.
I've heard that in the states they are crossing Chondro's with
Jungle carpets to produce Carpondro's. Raymond Hoser has a photo of
a Hybrid between a Carpet python and a Scrub python. There is also a
photo of a Water python cross Carpet python (different genera)
Craig

more results pending.......


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## marc (Dec 9, 2003)

Emydura subglobosa subglobosa, or Jardine rive or Worrell's turtle (All the same animal..J Cann) was also refered to as a painted turtle due to it bright colours this species does acure in Australia, however the turtle on the TV was a red eyed pond slider an introduced species that has astablished wild populations in Australia around SEQ


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## wattso (Dec 9, 2003)

Marc, can you get any more info regards RES pops in seq? much appreciated if ya can. They are here but breeding amongst themselves and competing with local species for food resources. nothing yet re: weather they can hybridise or not. these post from turt list.

Eastern Snake-Neck &lt;[email protected]> 
Date: Tue Dec 9, 2003 8:29 am
Subject: Re: [AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs] red eared sliders established pops/ x bred?



Hi,

I have heard of a population in Western Sydney. The
information was passed on to my by a very reliable
source. I have visited the site many times, but I have
never seen them there. Mind you, I have never seen the
Chelodina longicollis that are know to co-habitate in
this same site.

I was told that a particular University had done some
studies, and found that the sliders were competing for
food with the Eastern Snake-Necks. Again, I cannot
confirm this.

- Michael.

"Scott Thomson" &lt;[email protected]> 
Date: Tue Dec 9, 2003 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs] red eared sliders established pops/ x bred?



Red Ear Sliders are definitely in a few places around Australia and Yellow Belly Sliders are also in Victoria (I have not seen these though). The University of Western Sydney did some research on them. 

I know of about three sites in Sydney where they have been caught, the two species I have mentioned are now listed as noxious species in Victoria. I am not well up on the Victorian situation but if they are listed as noxious I would imaging that means they have definitely been found.

As for hybridising these turtles are from a different sub-order to the Australian species they cannot hybridise. They can certainly compete though.

Cheers, Scott



[email protected] 
Date: Tue Dec 9, 2003 9:05 am
Subject: Re: [AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs] Red eared sliders in Australia


Hi,
Some years back Anthony Stimson and I published an article in
the Hawkesbury Herpetologist, where we reported that Red-
eared Sliders had become established in parts of the Sydney
Basin. Unfortunately, our article was ridiculed by a so-called
turtle expert university student student, so it was never quoted.
It was however used. The particular student was sent off to
study the problem in the hope that his more scientific study
would disprove our article's claims. Much to the astonishment of
all concerned, Red-eared Sliders were in fact located, and they
were in fact breeding, but nothing has yet been published in the
holy-than-thou scientific press!
I have many localities for Red-eared Sliders, and so does
Anthony. Anyone really interested in this should go out and do
a bit of field work - not to prove us wrong - but to see what is
actually out there for themselves. And as for an Emydid
possibly hybridizing with one of our Chelid turtles, well, that's
where MY scepticism steps in.

Regards

Richard Wells

"Scott Thomson" &lt;[email protected]> 
Date: Tue Dec 9, 2003 9:21 am
Subject: Re: [AustralianFreshwaterTurtlesandFrogs] Red eared sliders in Australia


ADVERTISEMENT


Hi Richard,

I remember hearing that a few years back a survey was done of one rather famous location in Sydney and 9 species of turtle were caught. 

Amazing what turns up eh!! Well not everyone agrees with me but I blame the wildlife authorities for this one... If they had managed them rather than stuck their heads in the sand they may not be their. 

I think I can guess who the University Student was, would really like confirmation but that may be best off list. lol....

Cheers, Scott


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