# Dobermans?



## dailyskin (Apr 9, 2009)

Does anyone here have a doberman?

We are looking to get one in the near future, hopefully, and I'm trying to learn as much as I can about them (hubby had one, very beloved, when he was a kid).

In particular, we have chosen the breed for their great reputation with kids, and also to be a bit of protection (visual!) when I am home alone or going for a run.

Any info or pics would be great!


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## Lovemydragons (Apr 9, 2009)

Not sure how far you want to travel, but if you head down to some dog shows at KCC Park in Skye you could chat to breeders and see their dogs aswell. I did that with my Shar-peis, and am very happy I did. Going through a breeder that shows their dogs you know they're trying to breed out any genetic problems and usually also breed for temperment if they choose to show them.


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## Noongato (Apr 9, 2009)

Dobermanns are gorgeous, although its a shame that to get the stereotype look their ears are cropped and tails docked, which is illegal in Aust.
Just doesnt look the same with the big floppy ears...


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## dailyskin (Apr 9, 2009)

I actually like the floppy ears lol!

But we will likely get the tail docked - even if it means taking a holiday to WA. I've heard too many stories of tails getting caught / broken etc because they were never bred to have tails. Maybe over coming years the tails will naturally be bred shorter and thicker by breeders, as in the case of some other dogs?


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## Noongato (Apr 9, 2009)

Tails dont really get caught or broken etc unless you have a dog doing more extreme exercises, like pig hunting or pole jumping (think thats the name?). One breeds tail isnt much different to anothers. The only reason breeds tails were docked was for looks or so the owner could pull the dog back out of a fox hole etc by the tail and it wouldnt harm the dog too much. Which IMO is just as bad as yanking on any dogs tail. Still pulling on the spine in the end.


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## jasontini (Apr 9, 2009)

Dobermans are gorgeous although i only have a malamute atm.
anyways, check this site out www.dogzonline.com.au
Hope u can get a good breeder near your place.
Good Luck!
(T)

*click on breed pages n go to Dobermann*


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## karasha (Apr 19, 2009)

Dobermans are great dogs, can be very excitable so obedience training a must also need a lot of excercise. on the docking issue, i have a 2yr old boxer with tail and she has never hurt it despite wacking it on some fairly hard surfaces such as cnr of brick walls. i am a vet nurse and since the new laws came in i have yet to see an amputation of a dogs tail because of injury. pls dont encourage the continuation of docking. But pls get a doberman if thats the right dog for you they are a lovely breed.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 19, 2009)

dailyskin said:


> But we will likely get the tail docked - even if it means taking a holiday to WA. I've heard too many stories of tails getting caught / broken etc because they were never bred to have tails. Maybe over coming years the tails will naturally be bred shorter and thicker by breeders, as in the case of some other dogs?



I don't know where people get the rumors of WA & legal tail docking??? 

cosmetic tail docking is banned in WA and has been since 2003, and nation wide since 2004.

its all written in the animal welfare act-
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg/awr2003292/s14.html

ANIMAL WELFARE (GENERAL) REGULATIONS 2003 - REG 14 
14 . Further offences (s. 94) — tail docking 
(1) In this regulation, a reference to tail docking means the amputation of one or more coccygeal vertebrae, leaving at least the first coccygeal vertebrae intact (unless the health of the animal will be adversely affected by the retention of that first vertebrae, in which case it includes the removal of that vertebrae). 


(2) A person who is not a registered veterinary surgeon shall not carry out tail docking of a dog. 


Penalty: $2 000. 


(3) A registered veterinary surgeon shall not carry out tail docking of a dog unless he or she believes that there are sufficient reasons for the tail docking to proceed for therapeutic or prophylactic purposes. 


Penalty: $2 000. 

its funny though, because australia is still following the international breed standard which has the tail docked. so i don't know where & who are tail docking dobermanns but its still being done.

and the stories of tail injuries is just that, stories to help fuel and scare people into tails are evil and destroy the world. sure you get tail injuries, but you dont need to dock them off. while were at it we mays well dock there legs to prevent them from breaking and injuring them too.


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## da_donkey (Apr 19, 2009)

i wouldnt have a dobey unless its ears were cropped and tail docked. i'l stick with the pittys.


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## Mrs I (Apr 19, 2009)

I think people get the idea it is allowed over in WA due to a RSPCA rescue episode, that the lady said she had taken her puppies to WA to have their tales docked.


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## missllama (Apr 19, 2009)

yea i remember that Mrs I that lady was a rude cow to the rspca worker
"i dont have to tell u where i got it done" blah blah blah

then at the end they showed one with its tail etc from a different owner and it looked gorgeous 

my aunty had two dobermans when i was growing up daily and they were always great with us kids, very energetic dogs tho thats for sure lol


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 19, 2009)

probably done by dodgy vets that docked them under "prophylactic purposes" & are $$$$ hungry.


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## Gove (Apr 20, 2009)

we had our first Doberman for just over 11 yrs and he passed away to to cardio-myopathy which is somewhat common in Dobermans. He was the best dog we have had great with kids etc, but as others have mentioned they need to be trained, which is fairly easy as they are very smart. There are 3 colours available, black and tan, red and tan and blue dobermans. Steer clear of the blue ones as they have skin problems and are difficult to look after. Google Blue Doberman Syndrome for more info. At the moment we have a black and tan and a red and tan and although they are still puppies they are showing signs of being intelligent and easy trained dogs. Give it a go but get one from a registered breeder. 

PS our first Dob had a docked tail and the 2 new ones dont and they look great.


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## Australis (Apr 20, 2009)

Blue eyed albinos, nice.
http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/Kirbypics.html


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## dailyskin (Apr 20, 2009)

Ohh the red ones are still pretty dark, more like a dark brown with tan? I just saw some pics... I think we'll try to find a red, hubby is grumpy about having another black in case it 'ruins the memory of Rastus' lol...


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## kakariki (Apr 20, 2009)

Dobes are lovely dogs. Intelligent, affectionate & a great with the family & kids. They are a dog I would own in a second! My sister had one & she was just gorgeous. I have to disagree with getting a pup via dog show breeders though. Very often they breed to the "standard" only & hang the temp. And the "Standard " changes with passing fads. We got a lovely Shepherd who had been taken to the vet to be put down by one such "show dog "person. Why?? Cos she didn't have the required saddle marking! She was, by far, the best Shepherd I have shared my life with...( sorry Dana!). Just hunt around till you find THE pup that is right for you. Take your time, is my advice & don't be fooled by the logic that buying from a breeder is best. I know from experience that isn't always the case! Check shelters for pups, check the local paper, shop notice boards etc. He/she could be waiting there for you! And post pics when he/she arrives so we can all ooh & aah over it, lol.


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## jessb (Apr 20, 2009)

Not sure how a Dobey's tail is any different to a Ridgeback/Greyhound or any other dog with a long, thin tail. We know loads of people with these breeds who haven't docked the tails and they have never had any injuries.

If you are just keeping it as a pet, It seems bizarre and a bit unpleasant to be considering docking it. I would get an opinion from a reputable vet before you make a decision.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 20, 2009)

kakariki said:


> Take your time, is my advice & don't be fooled by the logic that buying from a breeder is best.



Im guesing you are refering to show breeders that breed for appearance only, because there are many reputable breeders that breed to better the breed. ie, keeping strong working lines, good temprements and minimize and reduce bad heraditory health traits.

if you are looking to breed, good breeders is where i would be going for your dog of choice. but if you just want a pet for companionship and not interested in a particle breed/purpose I would go a rescue.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 20, 2009)

kakariki said:


> the "Standard " changes with passing fads.



oh, and not all breed standards change with passing fads. take the rottweiler standard for instance. hasn't changed since it was created back in 1907, except in 1998 when the tail set changed from docked to natural.


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## craig.a.c (Apr 20, 2009)

dailyskin said:


> But we will likely get the tail docked - I've heard too many stories of tails getting caught / broken etc because they were never bred to have tails.




What the hell does that mean? Of course they were meant to have tails, in case you didn't know tails help alot of dogs and cats keep their balance when running and helps to change direction faster. They weren't meant to have tails? To eveyone else out there that says they wont own a breed of dog unless its ears are cropped or tails docked, get a life. Its still animal cruelty.


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## amy5189 (Apr 20, 2009)

I am going to agree with Craig here. Dogs are meant to have tails. Thats why they have them. I have heard some people going on about their rotti's that were "Naturally born without tails" this is a crock of *$#&*#$. All dogs (minus stumpy cattles) are born with tails, for balance etc. It is connected to their spine so I'm thinking that perhaps it maybe of some sort of importance to them. 
To me it is no difference to cropping ears. Unnatural, cruel, all for show.
My dogs whack their tails on things wagging, get tails stood on, tails squished in doors (not on purpose I swear!!). It is hard to harm a tail.
So please think seriously about this, and decide whether or not you want to go through with illegal animal cruelty, or have a happy and NATURAL dog.


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## emmjay23 (Apr 20, 2009)

I have a red dobe. love her to bits 
She was abandoned and the neighbor took her in -realised she was too much work with their other dog and passed her onto us. She was a bit skiddish at first -I think the original owner miss-treated her, but shes the most intelligent, human acting dog! 
Because she was already 6 months when we got her she was too big and energetic to put with children unsupervised (played rough and got carried away) but she is learning not to jump and has calmed down heaps. Shes very protective of her family and yard.
She runs like the wind so make sure you have a large area (like an oval away from a road) to let them run. If you manage to find a way to wear them out let me know! 
anyway check out my album to see a photo of her (when we 1st got her) with tail and ears in-tact and no problems at all with her tail.

There are guys working next door that told me she looks mean when I'm not home  good dog hehe


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 20, 2009)

amy5189 said:


> I have heard some people going on about their rotti's that were "Naturally born without tails" this is a crock of *$#&*#$. All dogs (minus stumpy cattles) are born with tails



it isn't a crock! :shock:

there is such a thing as naturally born bobtail rottweilers. 
http://www.rottweilers.net.au/index.html

but personally I would never own or breed the bobtail line.


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## Noongato (Apr 20, 2009)

Im against docking tails and cropping ears too, but i do love the stereotype dobermann look. Mostly the upright ears thing. Be good if they could breed a line of dobermanns with natural upright ears.
Since you can train staffies etc ears to stand as pups, does that idea apply to all dogs or just some breeds? Be cool to train a doby's ears to stand on their own.


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 20, 2009)

yes, you can tape the ears but its not needed. its only cosmetic to make them look more apealing to certain people. the ear set for the dobermann is Small, neat, set high on head. Normally dropped, but may be erect.
personally I like them natural.


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## Lovemydragons (Apr 21, 2009)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> oh, and not all breed standards change with passing fads. take the rottweiler standard for instance. hasn't changed since it was created back in 1907, except in 1998 when the tail set changed from docked to natural.


 

Are you talking about show standards? Or peoples choice of standard?

Cos what happened to cropping ears!! There is a guy at my obedience school that has a rotti with these tiny cropped ears (so they stand up). They look awful and not to say probably painful at some stage to the poor dog! I doubt very much the dog was born like that! I'm guessing he's not the only one who has had this done.


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## Red-Ink (Apr 21, 2009)

There are that many breeds out there that have different looks and temperments that if you look hard enough you would find the perfect dog breed that would satisfy what you want. I personally think to many people put emphasis on looks first and temperment second. IMO it should be the other way around. There are people that buy border collies or heelers for example cause they like the way they look then complain that it takes to much energy to tire then out or that it keeps wrecking the yard, their a working dog without the work they get bored and destructive. Find a breed of dog that suits your lifestyle and personality then see if all those breeds suit the look your looking for. Thats why i like bulldogs, their happy enough to sit on the couch with me and have a beer without ever needin to much exercise, that's my kind a dog I'm too lazy for the energetic breeds lol.


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## kakariki (Apr 21, 2009)

Dobie tails are nasty things, lol. Just like other breeds that are usually docked, they are long & whippy. And they are much more easily damaged than the wooly or fluffy tails eg Sheps. My boy ( not a Dobe) has the nastiest whippy tail at just the wrong height ( esp for blokes :shock He bashes it on the wall when he get excited and has on one occassion, even hit it so hard he ended up with a large swelling & he couldn't wag it for 3 days! But imo, they still look far better with them. Docking is a barbaric op done unnecessarily for human "cosmetic" reasons...most of the time!
Whitey, I hear what you are saying regarding breed standards but they do change. The Danes are going through it atm. Gone are the large framed, strong looking dogs with neat square heads. Go to a show now & you will see lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids! Very sad when you compare these to the "real thing". And Rotties have been affected in a similar way. The Rotties I remember seeing were big, strong dogs but nowdays they are smaller & lack the bulk they once had. ( Perhaps it's just the shows that I go to, I don't know, but I am convinced "line breeding" has a lot to do with it! )


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## jessb (Apr 21, 2009)

Red-Ink said:


> Find a breed of dog that suits your lifestyle and personality then see if all those breeds suit the look your looking for. Thats why i like bulldogs, their happy enough to sit on the couch with me and have a beer without ever needin to much exercise, that's my kind a dog I'm too lazy for the energetic breeds lol.


 

LOL that's why we got a Labrador!!!


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## moosenoose (Apr 21, 2009)

dailyskin said:


> In particular, we have chosen the breed for their great reputation with kids




Perfect dogs :lol: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/qld-news/man-mauled-by-pet-dog-20090420-ac05.html


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## kakariki (Apr 21, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> Perfect dogs :lol: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/qld-news/man-mauled-by-pet-dog-20090420-ac05.html



You gotta ask what the man was doing to the dog to cause it in the first place! Dogs rarely attack without provocation & some people don't treat dogs with the respect they should. It could just as easily be a terrier or a spaniel! Only thing is, when a big dog does attack someone, it makes a big mess!


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 21, 2009)

Lovemydragons said:


> Are you talking about show standards? Or peoples choice of standard?
> 
> Cos what happened to cropping ears!! There is a guy at my obedience school that has a rotti with these tiny cropped ears (so they stand up). They look awful and not to say probably painful at some stage to the poor dog! I doubt very much the dog was born like that! I'm guessing he's not the only one who has had this done.



Its not a show standard or peoples personal standards im refering to, its the breed standard and thats the same standard used in shows aswell.
here is an explanation cut out from this site-http://www.vomlowenherzigrottweilers.com/rottweiler-natural-tail.html






cropped ears have never been the FCI ear set and far as im aware they have never been in the AKC standard either. People do it for there own selfish needs, that guy you are talking about will never be allowed to show his rotti with cropped ears.



kakariki said:


> Whitey, I hear what you are saying regarding breed standards but they do change. The Danes are going through it atm. Gone are the large framed, strong looking dogs with neat square heads. Go to a show now & you will see lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids! Very sad when you compare these to the "real thing". And Rotties have been affected in a similar way. The Rotties I remember seeing were big, strong dogs but nowdays they are smaller & lack the bulk they once had. ( Perhaps it's just the shows that I go to, I don't know, but I am convinced "line breeding" has a lot to do with it! )



Haven't wittnessed any dane showings, so can't comment on it but the danes I have seen locally are still big units and are truly a wonder to see. Looking at the current breed standard for the dane, it dosn't say anything about "lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids", so the danes you describe were not upto the standard they should be.
http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=191

In the regards to rotties, I challenge you to produce evidence of heathy, pure, adult rottie that is smaller, less bulky than the ones that you have seen in the past. I beleive the rotties are just as strong today as they were 30-40 years ago. Maybe the ones you have seen were over weight and looked more bulky? Its actually healthy for the rottie if they are a bit on the leaner side because of the known hip & elbow dysplasia the breed suffers from. its recomenned to keep them lean the first 12 months to help combat servere dysplasia in the future, we are actually thinking smarter and helping the breed instead of feeding them up and getting them bulky as possible.
If you look at the evolution of the rotti, it was a lean dog till about the 60's and thats when it got larger in the body.
again, you must be going to some terrible shows because the breed standard for rotties is very good and a good rottie looks very strong & confident.

the rottweiler is a medium to large size, stalwart dog, neither heavy nor light and neither leggy or weedy. his correctly proportioned, compact and powerful build leads to the conclusion of great strength, agility and endurance.


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## Kitah (Apr 21, 2009)

If you get a dobe, as already suggested I would recommend getting one from a reputable breeder. as with pretty much any dog breed, they do have certain problems which are genetic, and reputable breeders try to breed these out etc. One that we've learnt a lot about at uni is Von Willebrand's disease, which is a recessive genetic abnormality that can cause abnormal clotting (Their blood doesn't clot, though different dogs have different levels of severity), and it is rather common in dobes.


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## Australis (Apr 21, 2009)

Consider this gem:
"While it is utterly devoted to its human family, it is wary of strangers, *does not take kindly to teasing*, and if a warning growl goes unheeded, *may attack without warning*. It needs plenty of exercise and *meticulous* grooming. "

http://www.22dog.com/breeds/Komondor.html


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## kakariki (Apr 22, 2009)

What the books say & what is actually going on in the show ring are, unfortunately, 2 very different things. We visited the Royal Adelaide & were disapponted with the quality of the Danes there. Without exception, they were lanky, had droopy eyes & jowls & had little or no chest depth. The were weak looking individuals indeed & if they are the best of the breed then I will pass, thanks all the same. The Shepherds were just as disappointing, & I have had Sheps forever! Maybe I didn't explain what I meant. I wasn't meaning the word for word "standard" as written in breed description but the show trends. As stated earlier, the Sheps went through an odd phase where they had to exhibit certain markings to be worthy for show. And its the judges to blame imo. They determine what they like & the breeders then breed for it. I doubt I'll buy pure again after Aragorn. He is just so healthy & free from weird problems etc.
PS, the Rotties to which I refer are smaller in height than those of days past. I have seen many which are under knee height! Is this the norm cos in the past those I used to come across were most definitely above knee height. And the width of them seems to have decreased also. Chest depth is less. Maybe it is just me but, having always liked the bigger breeds like Sheps, Dobes, Rotties Mastifs etc this has been my observation.


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## mistymtn (Apr 22, 2009)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> Its not a show standard or peoples personal standards im refering to, its the breed standard and thats the same standard used in shows aswell.
> here is an explanation cut out from this site-http://www.vomlowenherzigrottweilers.com/rottweiler-natural-tail.html
> 
> 
> ...


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 22, 2009)

kakariki said:


> I have seen many which are under knee height! Is this the norm cos in the past those I used to come across were most definitely above knee height. And the width of them seems to have decreased also. Chest depth is less. Maybe it is just me but, having always liked the bigger breeds like Sheps, Dobes, Rotties Mastifs etc this has been my observation.



rottie's arn't ment to be massive, they are a medium to large dog. but in saying that there is crazy large line called roman rotties. they are not the standard a rottie should be and I wouldn't recommend them because they come with a lot of health problems associated with the extra weight and mass they carry.

correct height for males is 65-66cm
females 60-61cm

Body: Back: Straight, strong, firm.
Loins: Short, strong and deep
Croup: Broad, of medium length, slightly rounded. Neither flat nor falling away.
Chest: Roomy, broad and deep (approximately 50% of the shoulder height) with well developed fore-chest and well sprung ribs.
Belly: Flanks not tucked up.




mistymtn said:


> Whiteyluvsrum are you involved in the dog show side of things? I'm just curious. You seem to know a lot about them.
> 
> Cheers



No, Im not involed in dog shows. Ive never shown a dog and I don't think I ever will. 
I like to know things.


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## notechistiger (Apr 22, 2009)

Um, Australis? Wrong link and quote 

http://www.22dog.com/breeds/Doberman.html



> A fine obedience and show dog, the Doberman can make a good family pet, but it needs knowledgeable handling and training, being wary of strangers and constantly "on guard." It needs a lot of exercise, and should be groomed every couple of days.


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## gozz (Apr 22, 2009)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> rottie's arn't ment to be massive, they are a medium to large dog. but in saying that there is crazy large line called roman rotties. they are not the standard a rottie should be and I wouldn't recommend them because they come with a lot of health problems associated with the extra weight and mass they carry.
> 
> correct height for males is 65-66cm
> females 60-61cm
> ...


We should call you the google dog lol


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## PhilK (Apr 22, 2009)

dailyskin said:


> I've heard too many stories of tails getting caught / broken etc because they were never bred to have tails.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm sorry WHAT?! That is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard...

They were never bred to have tails? They are bred and born WITH tails - that's the whole reason people cut them off! :lol:

Don't listen to those stories, they are complete bull-plop. There is NO medical reason or advantage to dock a tail as a pup. The only reason is selfish humans who want the look - and if you wanna put a pet you supposedly love through that, then go ahead :?

If your dog develops cancer/gangrene/some other legitimate reason then docking the tail is perfectly legal and helpful. But that is the only time.


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## jdonly1 (Apr 22, 2009)

Have owned to Dobermans,they were the biggest wooses out.They were great with kids but did need a lot of exercise
I now have a guard/protection trained Rotty.Bloody great dog and he does like to just lie around and be slack just like me:lol:


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## whiteyluvsrum (Apr 22, 2009)

gozz said:


> We should call you the google dog lol



I prefer google drunk man. 

Ya can't beat google and you tube! :lol:


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## kakariki (Apr 22, 2009)

Whitey, the Rotie you describe is the Rottie I knew. I haven't seen one like that for quite a while now, mores the pity. 
While I don't know much about showing dogs, I have some experience ( 5 years ) in the show ring & have seen first hand how the "standards" get bent to suit the particular judge at the time. One show, one judge, one opinion of worthiness. Doesn't really add up to a whole lot when you look at the bigger picture!


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## gozz (Apr 22, 2009)

whiteyluvsrum said:


> I prefer google drunk man.
> 
> Ya can't beat google and you tube! :lol:


LOL iam on the google wagon now:lol:


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## Sel (Apr 22, 2009)

I had a Doberman about 10 years ago now,
she was the most beautiful dog..she had a docked tail but floppy ears and i wouldnt of had her any other way, i really dont like the cropped ears look. FLoppy is much better

I agree with Australis comment, they adore the family and are actually big sooks hehe but i will never forget the day Bonnie was in the garage and a friend of my dads came over, he was parked out on the road and he stayed on the road, didnt even come up to the house...Bonnie was let out of the garage, she saw the guy talking to my dad and just charged him...if my dad hadnt called her off she would have ripped into him. Not sure what it was about the guy..but she went off!

You need to give them alot of exercise tho, they get bored easy. Id get another Doberman definately!! But i would need a large yard and alot more time than i have to give 

My parents got rid of Bonnie after id moved out, and they didnt tell me... i was devastated when i found out, she was perfect., we used to go to the cemetary at night (I know..sounds morbid and weird..lol) and she loved chasing rabbits.... i have a few pics of her but i dont have a scanner 

Should u get a Doberman?? 
YES!!!! You definately should!


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## dailyskin (Apr 29, 2009)

PhilK said:


> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm sorry WHAT?! That is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard...
> 
> They were never bred to have tails? They are bred and born WITH tails - that's the whole reason people cut them off! :lol:


 
A few people here have misinterpreted my comment that 'dobes were never bred to have tails'. Perhaps there is a semantical misunderstanding. But what I said is CORRECT! What I mean is that, when dobes were bred originally, and throughout the years, they were NOT bred with the intention of having tails.

That is, they were bred and refined with the knowledge that the tails would simply be 'cut off', and therefore, no efforts were made, in breeding, to refine or develop the tail.

So, many breeders have told me that they are STARTING to breed for tail appearance too, breeding dogs with thicker and shorter tails, in the hope that, in coming generations, the tails will naturally be physically and aesthetically better.


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## dailyskin (Apr 29, 2009)

My vet likens tail docking to infant circumcision - the dog will suffer for only a little while, will likely forget the pain, and it MAY prevent the operation needing to be done later on for medical reasons. However, it is essentially an aesthetic choice, and one that will always cause pain, no matter how temporary.


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## dailyskin (Apr 29, 2009)

moosenoose said:


> Perfect dogs :lol: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/qld-news/man-mauled-by-pet-dog-20090420-ac05.html


 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ing-clinically-depressed-poodle.html?ITO=1490 - mauled by toy *poodle cross maltese*

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/boy-3-survives-mauling--by-terriers-675191.html - mauled by staffy *puppies*


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## spydalover (Apr 29, 2009)

my pop had one called ben when i was 3 he was tan and really cute he had a tail and floppy ears he had a really good temperment and he loved playing with me and my younger siblings their really good dogs and look good with or without a tail


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## jezzabel (Apr 29, 2009)

dailyskin said:


> My vet likens tail docking to infant circumcision - the dog will suffer for only a little while, will likely forget the pain, and it MAY prevent the operation needing to be done later on for medical reasons. However, it is essentially an aesthetic choice, and one that will always cause pain, no matter how temporary.


 
A dog's tail is an extension of its spine. It helps them to keep balance when they run. It is also used to show excitement or agitation. It is not put there for aesthetic purposes!

For your vet to hypothesise that it may have to be removed at a later date so why not just do it now is just silly. It is like saying, when a baby is born, oh he might break his leg playing sport- best that we cut it off now- he wont feel pain for a long and it will prevent it having to be done later on. 

Some IDIOT cut my dog's tail off when she was a pup (I got her from the pound). It was cruel and senseless. My vet has always been an advocate for leaving dogs as they are born- with their tails AND their ears (remember when they used to get the tips cut off so they stood up better?)

Sorry to go off on a tirade- just hate it when people hurt defenceless animals just so they “look better” :evil:


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## dailyskin (Apr 29, 2009)

jezzabel said:


> For your vet to hypothesise that it may have to be removed at a later date so why not just do it now is just silly. It is like saying, when a baby is born, oh he might break his leg playing sport- best that we cut it off now- he wont feel pain for a long and it will prevent it having to be done later on.


 
That's not what I, or the vet, was saying! We both agreed that it is NOT a good idea, but that those are some of the reasons people use. Not good reasons, but reasons nonetheless! Perhaps to understand my comment I should add that I am ANTI infant circumcision!


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## jezzabel (Apr 29, 2009)

Good!- sorry for the confusion


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