# Goanna/lizard ID



## Frog4364 (Nov 15, 2012)

Spotted a lizard/Goanna/skink that i have never seen before in West Aussie in Madora bay...At first i thought it was another bobtail but it wasent...Colour was more of an olive green...Was as long as a bobtail although not as fat..Head was more slimmer and not triangular shape...It moved similiar to a snake although it had legs albeit very short and didnt have the fat tail like bobbys do....what really caught my attention and i only saw it for a second was the markings on its back directly (I Think) above its front legs....I can only describe as Like Japanese writing...No i hadent been drinking or nor do i take drugs.....Dont have photo as by time i pulled truck up it had vanished into scrub....


----------



## disintegratus (Nov 15, 2012)

Frog4364 said:


> Dont have photo as by time i pulled truck up it had vanished into scrub....


Can't help too much, but just on that comment alone, definitely not a shingleback!! 

What colour were the markings?


----------



## vicherps (Nov 15, 2012)

Perhaps a picture would help with a accurate id from members on aps.


----------



## Wrightpython (Nov 15, 2012)

Keel back


----------



## corky (Nov 15, 2012)

common slender blue tongue?


----------



## vicherps (Nov 15, 2012)

Looks like a Cyclodomorphus branchialis to me (those dark bold black patches on the neck and the anterior part of the body make me think this).


----------



## Chanzey (Nov 16, 2012)

vicherps said:


> Looks like a Cyclodomorphus branchialis to me (those dark bold black patches on the neck and the anterior part of the body make me think this).



That was a guess pic


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Nov 17, 2012)

There is no doubt that the description of the legs and movement, coupled with the size, sounds like a Slender Bluetongue. However, _C. branchialis_ (the species astutely chosen by *Corky*) is not known to occur that far south. _C. celatus _does occur in Madora Bay but it would be an unusually marked specimen if it was what you saw. The only other lizards of that size, do not have short legs, particularly the varanid and agamid species. None of the local Egernias, other than King’s Skink, attain the dimensions of a Bobtail. Cyclodomorphus have distinctly shiny and smooth scales, which you couldn’t miss if you were able to make out the markings on the dorsal surface. So my best guess would be _C. celatus_. It is an adept burrower and can quickly disappear into loose soil or leaf litter. 


Blue 

EDIT: My ERROR. _C. celatus _might occur in Madora - but it is doubtful now that I have checked more exact records. To date it has not been recorded south of the Swan River. So while they ar not uncommon where I livein the northern suburbs, they are found 100 km south, only to about 50 km south of here.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

Bluetongue1 said:


> There is no doubt that the description of the legs and movement, coupled with the size, sounds like a Slender Bluetongue. However, _C. branchialis_ (the species astutely chosen by *Corky*) is not known to occur that far south. _C. celatus _does occur in Madora Bay but it would be an unusually marked specimen if it was what you saw. The only other lizards of that size, do not have short legs, particularly the varanid and agamid species. None of the local Egernias, other than King’s Skink, attain the dimensions of a Bobtail. Cyclodomorphus have distinctly shiny and smooth scales, which you couldn’t miss if you were able to make out the markings on the dorsal surface. So my best guess would be _C. celatus_. It is an adept burrower and can quickly disappear into loose soil or leaf litter.
> 
> 
> Blue



It is my opinion that it is a branchialis. I was under the impression that celatus lack the blackish blotches on the side of the neck and does not have dark bold spots as seen in brachialis but in celtatus markings more enlongated like streaks. However I must admit I have had no experience with either species what so ever but I don't think distribution in this case should rule it out the possibility of it being a branchialis.


----------



## damian83 (Nov 17, 2012)

Wrightpython said:


> Keel back


beat me...


----------



## Elapidae1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Seriously doubt that it is C. branchialis and I'm not even sure if C.celatus is in range if so I think it would be at the very southern extremity.
Personally I will go with a Tiliqua occipitals.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

In my opinion it looks nothing like Western Bluetongue Tiliqua occipitalis bluetongue1 has one pictured as is profile picture they look completely different. Just remember reptiles distribution doesn't follow that of text books so if you are using only that to id a reptile I don't think that is very reliable.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Nov 17, 2012)

The OP does not have a pic of the reptile he is trying to ID so how can you say it looks nothing like it?

Reptile distribution is a good guide and considering C.branchialis is probably a good couple of hundred kms out I think it would be safe to rule it out, also considering the likelihood of a random person spotting one so far out of it's known distribution is nil.

It was not C. branchialis.

I would put money on it being T. occipitalis.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

Tiliqua occipitalis is stockier, more triangular head, has bands on its back and rings on the tail and a yellow brown colour. Just thought I would let you know I visited a site which had this exact same photo and it said it was from Murchison, WA which seems to be in the general area where branchialis or at least not ages away.
I think distribution is a rough guide but not always totally accurate.
Here is the link: Image _MG_4567.jpg from the wildlife gallery


----------



## jordo (Nov 17, 2012)

Based on the description given i would back T. occipitalis as well for the same reasons elapidae1 has mentioned.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

Jordo are you talking about the one corky posted a picture of because that doesn't look anything like a western Bluetongue that looks like a branchialis to me (can you even see the picture). I am not referring to the post frog4364 to that i agree that could be a occipitalis. I am referring to the photo corky posted which to me looks like a branchialis.


----------



## -Peter (Nov 17, 2012)

Just remember he was driving past in a truck so I wouldn't be argueing finer details.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm not referring to that I'm referring to the photo corky posted or can no one else see the picture.


----------



## GeckPhotographer (Nov 17, 2012)

> Jordo are you talking about the one corky posted a picture of because that doesn't look anything like a western Bluetongue that looks like a branchialis to me (can you even see the picture). I am not referring to the post frog4364 to that i agree that could be a occipitalis. I am referring to the photo corky posted which to me looks like a branchialis.



He posted it specifically because IT IS a branchialis..................................................

More precisely he googled the name Cyclodomorphus branchialis, found a picture on the site of Thomas Rasmussen's photography, thought it illustrated C.branchialis well and copy pasted it here to illustrate what C.branchialis looks like to the original posted. While not everyone may know where he got it from, everyone else has used rational though and common sense to realize that's what he did. 

(I apologize if it's actually your photo Corky, but it's certainly on that site)


----------



## Elapidae1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Madora bay is about 60kms south of Perth and about 10minutes south of where I'm sitting typing this response.

If there is another Madora bay then I apologise.

I haven't found C. celatus here and even in the Northern suburbs where they are more commonly found they are not easily come by.
The banding on T. occipitalis is sometimes broken and I could imagine somebody looking for a way in which to describe it may use chinese writing. I have never found a C. celatus that would even come close to that sort of description.

As I said the OP didn't give a photo and being quite familiar with the species in the Perth region and going by the assumption that the OP is in the same Madora Bay that is just down the road from me I think it likely he/she saw a Western Blue Tongue. T. occipitalis. Without a photo though I guess we will never be certain.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

Well at first I thought corky posted the pic thinking it was a branchialis but was not entirely sure and my posts were directed at confirming it was one this was perhaps a misunderstanding by others that I was referring to branchialis as to what frog4364 saw which was not what I was saying at all.


----------



## Elapidae1 (Nov 17, 2012)

LOL, I'm a little less confused now

- - - Updated - - -

Anyhow Frog 4364 I'm 99% sure you saw a Western Blue tongue I went through my photo's only to find I haven't re photographed it since my hard rive crashed so I'm going to go and try and find one now.

Just in case anyone else is confused. I didn't for one second try and argue that the C. branchialis posted by corky was T. occipitals.


----------



## Stuart (Nov 17, 2012)

vicherps said:


> Well at first I thought corky posted the pic thinking it was a branchialis but was not entirely sure and my posts were directed at confirming it was one this was perhaps a misunderstanding by others that I was referring to branchialis as to what frog4364 saw which was not what I was saying at all.



To clarify, the pic was more a reference for the OP rather than the culprit needing identification in the first post. 

Good on you for helping out though.


----------



## vicherps (Nov 17, 2012)

Yeah sorry everyone for creating a misunderstanding. Getting back on track I am definitely open to the possibility based on frog4364 descriptions that he/she did see a Tiliqua occipitalis but can't be entirely accurate without a pic.


----------



## Bluetongue1 (Nov 18, 2012)

I wrote this yesterday but had trouble but ran out of time to post it… 

Now that I have realised my mistake and had time to think about more, I would say that Elapid 1 is more than likely correct.

Visual descriptions are difficult under the best of circumstances, let alone when you only get a fleeting glimpse. The use of relative (rather than absolute) terms, such as “slimmer”, “similar”, “very short”, “not as fat”, “not triangular” are all open to your personal interpretation. If we go with size being equivalent to an average adult Bobtail, there are only two lizards that will match and neither are Cyclodomorphous – they are the Western Bluetongue (_Tiliqua occipitalis_) and the King Skink (_Egernia kingii_). King Skinks are quite dark ain colour and either plain or flecked all over with lighter markings. Western Blueys can have their brown bands broken up on the back to form odd shapes. Their ground colour can vary from really light tan to fairly dark (including olive like). King Skinks tend to bolt in a fairly straight line and are remarkably quick. WBs are much slower and tend to scuttle and bend the whole body sideways when in a hurry, particularly when on a loose substrate.




Blue


----------

