# southern angle headed dragon underweight



## saintanger (Oct 19, 2012)

i recently decided to get back into angle headed dragons and found someone selling a 6 month old pair. so i went out to pick them up and he told me since the female was underweight and not eating i could have her for $20 and full price for male. 

normaly most people don't buy reptiles that are sick and have problems but insted of leaving her their to die, since he never took her to the vet and was not force feeding or doing anything about the situation. i bought both of them.

both have missing toes and scars and the tails have bite/ scar marks ect. 

she is skinny to the point you can see and count all her ribs and her collar bones stick out, she also wont move and seems to leathargic.

male is eating and seems happy enough in his new home. i have had them for 4 days and have been force feeding her wombaroo reptile supplement. 

i was wanting to know what should they roughly weigh at 6 months, and if anyone knows what the scar marks and missing toes could be from?

i have had her vet checked and was told to force feed, also that she is was dehydrated and looked malnurished. will be taking her back in a week to see how she is going.

these photos are from today just after a feed.


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## animal805 (Oct 19, 2012)

I am suprised that poor thing still has the energy to live, she must be a fighter. I wish you all the best and I am sure that, God willing, and with your care and love that she will pull through and grow up big and strong. I am not churchy in the slightest but I did not know how else to express myself at the sight of that poor thing


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## Pilbarensis (Oct 19, 2012)

I was under the impression that males were the ones without patterning? Anyway I hope he/she gets better soon.


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## saintanger (Oct 19, 2012)

i was told by him that she is female, and the other with the pattern is male. i'm not sure about sexing them but i would not be shoked if he was wrong about sexing them.


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## Pilbarensis (Oct 19, 2012)

John Fowler & Rachel Barnes Australian Herpetology Website-Southern Forest (Angle-headed) Dragon Care Sheet < Here it says that the pattern-less individuals are males and then patterned ones are females. I reckon this guy was wrong to be honest - he must of gotten his facts mixed up, at least you still have a pair.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 19, 2012)

Angleheads slow down and stop eating over winter and if disturbed to soon after this period, they will sulk. I'd say thats a male and it is also dehydrated. Did he have any running water in the tank for it to sit in when it wanted to.It will be not moving not only because it is weak but because it is playing dead. I seriously would not force feed a sulking, depressed angle head. I would be trying to rehydrate him first and trying to disturb him as little as possible. I have just had one of mine who isn't much older than yours go into a sulk induced brumation this winter because I moved house and upgraded his enclosure. He got very thin and more than a few times I thought he was dead. You have to try and let him settle. Now the weather is warmer mine is a lot more active and feeding. The scars could be from fighting or from the previous owner leaving crickets in the tank in winter when he was off food. They could also be the result of bad sheds due to know water in the tank. I put a low supplementary heat globe over mine and set it to turn off at 24 degrees, this kept humidity up over winter and encouraged them to use the waterfall and stay hydrated.


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## saintanger (Oct 20, 2012)

no they had no water fall. vet advised me to feed as its in a really bad condition. he has his eyes open all the time so i doubt he is playing dead, his eyes follow me around the room wen i am in their. i am not handling him unless its to feed him. i am giving him wombaroo mixed with water so hopefully he rehydrates soon. 

any ideas on what i can put in the enclosure to make him feel more at home and not sulk if he is? i got bark substrate, with a nice sized branch for climbing will add more in the nest few days. large water bowl, food bowl. and i mist them too. also heat light, will be adding a uvb light soon.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 20, 2012)

dont overheat them. theu keep their eyes open when playing dead. wombaroo is cereal based, angles are not omnivores. I would try getting some running water asap. lots of fake plants would be good. They can be incredibly finnicky, worse than boyds sometimes. if you can source silkworms it would be good as they are very nutritious and can be safely left in the enclosure.

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In all seriosness, you shouldn't have taken them on with no experience. I really don't know why they ever took Angles off advanced licence. Try giving him some real filtered sunlight as well, in the morning before it is too hot. Uvb should have been first on the list, way more important than a heat lamp.


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## saintanger (Oct 20, 2012)

i have owned them before as adults and never had a problem. its my first time taking on babies. thats why i asked for advise not critisisem. if i left them i am sure she/ he would of died. and i do have an advanced licence so it would have been all the same.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 20, 2012)

Not criticising, it is just a huge thing to take on. I fully understand why you did it.


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## saintanger (Oct 21, 2012)

update, so happy today for the first time my little guy has walked around his enclosure. he even got in the water bowl. i have stoped force feeding since he is very alert and exploring. i have not seen him eat yet but hope he does soon. also got a uvb put in the enclosure yesterday.

this is the female


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## mic772 (Oct 21, 2012)

Try him on earth worm as there high in protine and herpaboost. Out a bit in a syringe and into his mouth .
ps I have had angle headed dragon females with no markings. I'm not saying this is your case though but when there all healthy you can get them vet checked or get someone to pop them if you don't know how


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## saintanger (Oct 21, 2012)

thanks, i got earth worms, crickets, meal worms and woodies. i am trying different food with them to see what they prefer.


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## butters (Oct 21, 2012)

Strangely, or maybe not considering where they are found, I have found them quite partial to small snails. As soon as you put them in they leap down and grab them even though they aren't moving. They definitely seem to know what they are even if they have never seen them before. 

Suprised me.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 21, 2012)

Yeah, mine like snails. I wouldn't feed woodies though, especially when in that condition. Great he's perked up a bit. Don't spin out if he drops into a sulk again on and off.


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## saintanger (Oct 21, 2012)

i will try the snails as soon as my local pet shop gets them in. yeah i know all about the sulking and playing dead. have also just paid $130 on fake plants, vines ect to do up their enclosure. also got them a background. now all i need is a waterfall, but i can't find any that would suit a dragon or any reptile. anyone know were i can get one. or should i just make my own.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 21, 2012)

I use the small exoterra for mine.


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## saintanger (Oct 30, 2012)

he ate yesterday for the first time that i have seen he ate 4 meal worms but i had to put them in his mouth and he chewed and swallowed. so happy. he has come along way. 

now i need to think of a name that suits him, any ideas?


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## kobrakai (Oct 31, 2012)

Starvin Marvin haha
on a serious note good to hear things are looking up for the lil guy.


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## saintanger (Oct 31, 2012)

lol, good one. thanks, yeah i am over the moon.


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## greggles91 (Oct 31, 2012)

saintanger said:


> he ate yesterday for the first time that i have seen he ate 4 meal worms but i had to put them in his mouth and he chewed and swallowed. so happy. he has come along way.
> 
> now i need to think of a name that suits him, any ideas?



Wooohooo good to hear mate! keep us posted with his/her recovery.

p.s waterfalls are a must in my opinion. i've had angle heads that have had a waterfall and loved it and i had to take it out for a week to fix the pump and they wouldn't touch any water at all from the bowl as soon as i put the waterfall back in and turned it on, all three of em literally bolted for it at the same time for a drink!!

also keeps a good humidity level.


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## Gonemad (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow! Congratulations they are looking so much better! I had my fingers crossed for you but I didn't think you had much of a chance, with the neglect they endured there's no need for that, as a owner it is there responsibility to take care or these animals and if they can't then they so give back to breeder or find a saint like you well before they are on border line of death.


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## saintanger (Oct 31, 2012)

i put a waterfall in about 6 days ago and the female bolted over for a drink. the underweight male i have seen him drink from a bowl 2 days ago. he is looking more lively everyday and gets around the enclosure more and more.

what humidity level should i keep their enclosure at?

i will take in any reptile in need, no matter what is wrong with them. 

i will update pics soon. still waiting for more plants to get delivered for their enclosure but its getting there.


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## KaotikJezta (Oct 31, 2012)

I got an indoor plant watering kit from bunnings and bought some little irrigation fittings so I can set up a sprayer in the hotter months. It was only $49, runs on batteries and you can set it to spray as many or few times as you want and it will mist right down to a tenth of a second. Awesome idea for keeping humidity up and temperature down. I have spagnum moss over cocopeat as substrate. It is very clean and holds the humidity well.

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Grr, double posts


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## saintanger (Oct 31, 2012)

male female eating

she still is underweight but at least she is eating and alot more lively


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## GeckoJosh (Oct 31, 2012)

Best of luck, btw I know this is already been said but the skinny one is a male, the one with more markings is female.


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## saintanger (Oct 31, 2012)

yeah, i know. thanks.

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their enclosure, had more plants delivered today.


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## saintanger (Nov 15, 2012)

*update*







their new enclosure


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## ChargerWA (Nov 16, 2012)

Awesome work mate. The enclosure looks great and the those dragons are cute.


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## saintanger (Nov 16, 2012)

thanks, since i upgraded the enclosure and this one is bigger i will need to get more plants so they can hide and feel safe. but i am really happy so far with how they are both going and the enclosure.


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## Sezzzzzzzzz (Mar 25, 2013)

hey saintanger, got any updated pics of these babies?


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## Rogue5861 (Jul 8, 2013)

Would love an update on these guy. How they doing an what enclosure are they in now?


Rick


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