# cane toad and keelback



## joannef (Jan 9, 2009)

*Published:* *18/07/2008* 
*Source:**Australian Conservation* Department 
http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/news/

A cane toad has taken revenge on the only snake that can eat them and survive. The Keelback snake is a known predator of the introduced pest, but as this amazing photo shows the tables have been turned...

Original Source: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24039130-1702,00.html


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## grimace256 (Jan 9, 2009)

kill those ----ing cane toads


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## cracksinthepitch (Jan 9, 2009)

Not good at all, surely we could juice up some Keelbacks and release them to reek havoc on the toads. yes they probably will turn on something else just as every other CSIRO released insect etc has.Dutch elm beetle-European wasp case for one.


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 9, 2009)

also they've proven that a keelback will refuse a cane toad unless it is desperate for food. or there is no other frogs in the area.... so they aren't a primary prey item for the keelback


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## misssullivan (Jan 9, 2009)

That is not kewl. :evil: Who brought them over in the first place!!! :x:x


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 9, 2009)

misssullivan said:


> That is not kewl. :evil: Who brought them over in the first place!!! :x:x



they came from hawaii, they were brought over for the control of the cane beetle that was over hear. the only problem was... that the hawaian cane beetle couldn't climb up anything.... but ours could, so the toad became a problem after that as thier food source could get away from them..... 
it's the same story for most things that are introduced to control certian things.
they find a challenge they have no control over and find easier prey and spread from where they would remain all thier life if in thier native habitat, or they have no natural predators is the other big thing as it leads to over population of the species and spread of a problem..

talapia is a classic example. can live in water that our fish can't, are highly territorial, and so on and so on. it's simple.... if it wasn't here to begin with, unless it's migratory to here it should be here simple as...... taking something from it's natural environment can either kill it or it will thrive and kill off the native wildlife or add pressure on an already delacate eco system here.


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## whcasual79 (Jan 10, 2009)

they were brought here 70 odd years ago... to get rid of cane grub... now their taking over... was watching a docu other day and they reckon there's a 100 million of em out there... horrible gits

heard from someone other day if you pour coke over em it destroys em... business should be booming for coca cola after this ha


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## smacdonald (Jan 10, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> also they've proven that a keelback will refuse a cane toad unless it is desperate for food. or there is no other frogs in the area.



Who proved that?


Stewart


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 10, 2009)

reptilesDownUnder said:


> Who proved that?
> 
> 
> Stewart



i'm not to sure who exactly proved it, i think it may have been JCU or CSRIO. it is only a new discovery, and we were told that in our ven handling course up north. but yeah it's only a recent discovery or theory. i'm pretty sure they found out to (don't quote) but consumption of to many cane toads will kill them or cause serious illness, apparently they can eat them but only on a minimal basis... after all it's just what i heard about a month and a half ago.... so don't quote me on it...
although i can understand that theory.
we were just told that the keelback may not be our frontline defence against toads as they will work more if there is a frog nearby than settle for a toadling right in front of them.


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## smacdonald (Jan 10, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> i'm not to sure who exactly proved it, i think it may have been JCU or CSRIO.



Fair enough. Rick Shine's lab has done a heap of work on toads and keelbacks, but I've never read anything from them that said that keelbacks will refuse toads unless desperate. I've found a keelback eating a toad in my yard, despite there being plenty of frogs around. If they eat nothing but toads they certainly don't do very well.


Stewart


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 10, 2009)

reptilesDownUnder said:


> Fair enough. Rick Shine's lab has done a heap of work on toads and keelbacks, but I've never read anything from them that said that keelbacks will refuse toads unless desperate. I've found a keelback eating a toad in my yard, despite there being plenty of frogs around. If they eat nothing but toads they certainly don't do very well.
> 
> 
> Stewart



yeah thats it... ah there is so many theories out there. it's just the fact of proving them. lol. i've seen picks of green tree frogs eating keelbacks but never a toad....
i like the idea they had of genetically modifying toads to breed only male offspring so that they would eventually breed themselves out... never heard much more on that, they must've realised nature always has a way.... like the rabbits with ddt. evolution would do something so that toads they would be able to change sex in a 1 sex dominated ecosystem and then we'd be back on the drawing board....

i personally still need practice with my golf swing!!!!!! hehe


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## Noongato (Jan 10, 2009)

I would pay top dollar for someone to make me some cane toad car seat covers, they do make great quality leather products.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 10, 2009)

reptilesDownUnder said:


> Fair enough. Rick Shine's lab has done a heap of work on toads and keelbacks, but I've never read anything from them that said that keelbacks will refuse toads unless desperate. I've found a keelback eating a toad in my yard, despite there being plenty of frogs around. If they eat nothing but toads they certainly don't do very well.
> 
> 
> Stewart



Shine said in one of his older books I was reading the other day that Keelbacks can only eat the eggs and tadpoles, but die when eating adult toads, and are quite often found dead with toads in their mouths. 
This was a rather old book though, cant remember what year it was published, so has this been proven wrong since?


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## abbott75 (Jan 10, 2009)

midnightserval said:


> I would pay top dollar for someone to make me some cane toad car seat covers, they do make great quality leather products.



Ahh, but can you see people who make a living off cane toads wanting to drive them extinct?


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## i_LoVe_AnImAlS (Jan 10, 2009)

stupid things those cane toads kill them all we're better off without them!!!!


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## smacdonald (Jan 10, 2009)

DanTheMan said:


> Shine said in one of his older books I was reading the other day that Keelbacks can only eat the eggs and tadpoles, but die when eating adult toads, and are quite often found dead with toads in their mouths.
> This was a rather old book though, cant remember what year it was published, so has this been proven wrong since?



If they eat too much toxin (i.e., a toad that is too large) they still die, but they can certainly eat metamorphosed toads (i.e., not just eggs and tadpoles).

Have a read of Myth #3 here:

http://www.canetoadsinoz.com/debunkingcanetoadimpactmyths.html

You can also search Rick's website for articles on keelbacks and cane toads:

http://www.bio.usyd.edu.au/Shinelab/publications/publ.html#5

2004 and onwards should have lots of cane toad articles.


Stewart


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## wiz-fiz (Jan 10, 2009)

we should make it a sport, whoever has the dead canetoads, after ,say, 1 day, wins a prise, and then there will be people that just hunt for fun.

Will


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## i_LoVe_AnImAlS (Jan 10, 2009)

sounds like a good idea but we don't have cane toads around here other wise i would join in


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## abbott75 (Jan 10, 2009)

willia6 said:


> we should make it a sport, whoever has the dead canetoads, after ,say, 1 day, wins a prise, and then there will be people that just hunt for fun.
> 
> Will



And what about all the endangered native frogs that die when uneducated rednecks go a-huntin' some toad?


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## wiz-fiz (Jan 10, 2009)

yeah, there up north more, I don't have them down here either, thank god. If we did it there would be alot more angry farmers.


Will


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## DanTheMan (Jan 10, 2009)

reptilesDownUnder said:


> If they eat too much toxin (i.e., a toad that is too large) they still die, but they can certainly eat metamorphosed toads (i.e., not just eggs and tadpoles).
> 
> Have a read of Myth #3 here:
> 
> ...



Oh ok, cool thanks for that will have a read now!


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 10, 2009)

mmmm, that it should be. a sport that is... just about everyone in northern australia knows what a toad looks like... there should be monthly competitions like fishing comps. whoever brings back the most toads wins. the best prize for me would just be the satisfaction of good night with lots of carnage... in NQ you will be fined by the RSPCA for clubing a toad these days...
they believe they deserve a humain death only because the greenies cryied a bit to much... i'm all for conservation of native wildlife and the environment and so on but beleive they can carry things a little bit to far, they are more the extremist in some cases.... cane toads are a good example, fair enough clubbing is cruel.... but it's a pest and they need to be eradicated. but it's a hard and long road for that and bleeding hearts only make it longer with no end result but the population spreading further and faster.


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## twodogs (Jan 10, 2009)

The retard lets the cane toad live?
no wonder we are losing the battle to make this foul looking crud extint.


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## twodogs (Jan 10, 2009)

You may not have them yet, but you can be sure, that you will have them soon enough.


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## Earthling (Jan 11, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> mmmm, that it should be. a sport that is... just about everyone in northern australia knows what a toad looks like... there should be monthly competitions like fishing comps. whoever brings back the most toads wins. the best prize for me would just be the satisfaction of good night with lots of carnage... in NQ you will be fined by the RSPCA for clubing a toad these days...
> they believe they deserve a humain death only because the greenies cryied a bit to much... i'm all for conservation of native wildlife and the environment and so on but beleive they can carry things a little bit to far, they are more the extremist in some cases.... cane toads are a good example, fair enough clubbing is cruel.... but it's a pest and they need to be eradicated. but it's a hard and long road for that and bleeding hearts only make it longer with no end result but the population spreading further and faster.


 
Actually you are wrong.
Was listening to Radio National a few months ago and a survey was done showing many people whilst collecting Cane Toads, also collected a large sample of native frogs thinking they were Cane Toads.

Regarding a cruel death.
So, from what your saying a cruel death to Cane Toads (golfclub) will eradicate them quicker then a freezer? Hows that work? Because some people have more fun being cruel, then acting out of compassion for our environment? Thus, more Cane Toads killed? 
Whos fault was it that the Cane Toad was introduced? I dont see it as the Cane Toads fault, yet you want to punish them for it.
Look, if you want to argue cruelty to animals fine. Just dont use conservation of native wildlife and the environment as your excuse...be honest....you just enjoy being cruel.


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## serpenttongue (Jan 11, 2009)

twodogs said:


> The retard lets the cane toad live?


 
That's what i was thinking! Why is the Cane Toad still alive and well? It should have been wasted as soon he got the snake out of it's mouth.


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## DanTheMan (Jan 11, 2009)

twodogs said:


> The retard lets the cane toad live?
> no wonder we are losing the battle to make this foul looking crud extint.



You come up here, go for a night drive, when its raining its best. I know a nice little spot where there's so many cane toads you cant not run some over if you tried, but you cant run over half of them if you try, trying to do so would take an hour to drive 1km, and they are in such high numbers that I believe its beyond reversing with a golf club or a bottle of detol. Needs to be some sort of disease to wipe them out.


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## LauraM (Jan 11, 2009)

Fricking cane toads if and when they reach the perth area ill be sitting with my golfclub and a torch..........
Even though i hate killing of animals its either our native wildlife that has all right to be here or the toads...


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## Crazy_Snake08 (Jan 11, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> i do my part by running the 1's i see over


 
I almost had an accident doing that once!!!!

Still do it though 

I had issues with the dogs attackin them in the yard, they didn't seem to learn and then they foam up at the mouth and vomit!!!! Took a while to teach them not to go near them!!!!


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## gravitation (Jan 11, 2009)

Too bad moronic human beings introduced them.


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## shiloh2768 (Jan 12, 2009)

This disturbs me so much. I live in Darwin and whilst I haven't see any toads in the suburbs where I live, I have seen them out bush and not that far away from town.


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## ShnakeyGirl (Jan 12, 2009)

Earthling said:


> Actually you are wrong.
> Was listening to Radio National a few months ago and a survey was done showing many people whilst collecting Cane Toads, also collected a large sample of native frogs thinking they were Cane Toads.
> 
> Regarding a cruel death.
> ...



tell me how many people you know that will freeze them??? honestly! how many? 
i know bugger all... as they think it is grose or they will die from the poison bla bla. 
if the morons that introduced them were still alive then well perhaps it would be them getting flogged, but that still doesn't solve the issue now does it????
disease is a method, but whats there to back up that some wont have an immunity or develope 1 to that strain of disease.... i know our researchers are on this case and working out ways to not encounter problems of the past like a disease that also wipes out other fauna, are chemical they
become resiliant to and kills other wildlife even as some of the native animals have worked out to eat the belly side of an adult toad... but still very few that could wipe them out as well.

it's called proper education, something that isn't out there these days. and shutting up the bleeding hearts, yes they are a living animal, but they don't belong and the first person i will blame for some monitors goin extinct or becoming endangered due to the toad population will be those that say DON"T KILL TOADS... sad fact of life, get over it

just so you know, they only way i've ever killed toads is by running over them if it's safe, and a ball bearing in the top of the skull, or little lead pellet. oh and freezing them.

like it was said, there should be a sport. bag them alive so that anything mistaken for a toad like some burrowing and marsh frogs at least has a chance of not being clubed and make it a monthly thing. the most wins, penalties for anything but a toad..... that would push education of them!!.... also that the only animal i would be considered "cruel" against rabbits would be my other 1 but i havent shot 1 of those for years... oh and the feral pig... i know my methods arent favourable by some but they are a minority, if we were more concerned about the spread of the buggers and not how to erradicate them then maybe the spread may have been slowed down and provided time for the scientist to come up with an effective and safe way to erradicate them

post was by me shnakeyguy.... not shnakey girl. i'm just on her pc and forgot to logout and go in on my profile so rag me if your to rag any1


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## Earthling (Jan 12, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> mmmm, that it should be. a sport that is... just about everyone in northern australia knows what a toad looks like... there should be monthly competitions like fishing comps. whoever brings back the most toads wins. the best prize for me would just be the satisfaction of good night with lots of carnage... in NQ you will be fined by the RSPCA for clubing a toad these days...
> they believe they deserve a humain death only because the greenies cryied a bit to much... i'm all for conservation of native wildlife and the environment and so on but beleive they can carry things a little bit to far, they are more the extremist in some cases.... cane toads are a good example, fair enough clubbing is cruel.... but it's a pest and they need to be eradicated. but it's a hard and long road for that and bleeding hearts only make it longer with no end result but the population spreading further and faster.


 


ShnakeyGirl said:


> tell me how many people you know that will freeze them??? honestly! how many?
> i know bugger all... as they think it is grose or they will die from the poison bla bla.
> if the morons that introduced them were still alive then well perhaps it would be them getting flogged, but that still doesn't solve the issue now does it????
> disease is a method, but whats there to back up that some wont have an immunity or develope 1 to that strain of disease.... i know our researchers are on this case and working out ways to not encounter problems of the past like a disease that also wipes out other fauna, are chemical they
> ...


 
In answer to your question, I dont know anybody that freezes them, as Im inland from where they occur. I know a few people on the coast where Cane Toads do occur and most of these people do very little about them. If anything, they do as you do...drive over them. 

A sport in ther instance of how many you get within a certain time frame is good. What you have suggested does actually run in different parts of the country. As I understood, there was even some funding about to run these programs! If your interested Im sure EPA etc could point you in the right direction if its still available. 

Looking at your argument concerning toads dont belong here so they should all be killed. Does that work for causcasions in this country too? Perhaps Cats? Cattle? Sheep? Or is it only nonhuman animals that impact wildlife? Bit one sided dont you think?

I wonder how many people actually say DONT KILL TOADS? And why would you bring that into the conversation? I know I never said it.....havent heard anybody say it.

I noticed in your reply you failed to address appropriately my concerns about the fact that you argued that clubbing to death of Cane Toads as a right and just thing to do. 
You did mention RSPCA, so you do know that it is an illegal activity, which you are promoting which is good. 
You did look at alternatives that dont seem to be working yet, such as cnemicals, disease etc...
You mentioned and inferred, as the minority are promoting humane killing, they should not be listened too. You are saying majority rules. So Truth/Quality comes down to majority....Ethics is a little bit deeper then that. One case in point: Just because the majority of people in Australia choose to be overweight, does not make it a wise choice for ones health and lifestyle to choose to join them and be overweight....the majority are not always right/quality.

Also, do you really truely believe that promoting a competition for Toad catching or alternatively, promoting clubbing to death, would have the same positive results in reduction of toad numbers? Or are you trying to get the people who want to truely make a difference humanely, plus the people who just want to inflict cruelty on another animal?

Regarding your comment of 'shutting up the bleeding hearts', how would you like to do that? Cruelty involved perhaps?

Was that a ragging or a discussion or...?


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## mungus (Jan 13, 2009)

Goverment should offer a bounty per toad.
That would cut the numbers down, especially in populated towns.
I know it would'nt fix the problem, and some sort of plague is required, but hey, worth a try ??


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 13, 2009)

Also, do you really truely believe that promoting a competition for Toad catching or alternatively, promoting clubbing to death, would have the same positive results in reduction of toad numbers? Or are you trying to get the people who want to truely make a difference humanely, plus the people who just want to inflict cruelty on another animal?

Regarding your comment of 'shutting up the bleeding hearts', how would you like to do that? Cruelty involved perhaps?

Was that a ragging or a discussion or...?[/quote]


tisk tisk. you made some strong points and i respect your opinion. 
i will let you know i'm against animal creulty but when it comes to *feral* animals, i could not care...

the problem with feral animals everywhere was originally white settlement worldwide!!! if you wish to have the discussion about the white settlement in oz then put up a thread about it... cos i have a good and true comment for you.
but thats the past and i'm more concerned about whats goin on today and the effects of today on tomorrow. that applies for everything you pointed in your last post

no matter what, there will always be some1 that will take advantage of a cause for thier own twisted satisfaction of cruelty, which is why a bounty on live caught toads or comps on capturing toads in the bush and city live would be better as well for that way it cant be explioted for cruelty. well by rights anyway.

and yes there is a few towns that have tried this in queensland, bob catter was the 1 who organised some of those events and they saw a considerable drop in the populations for several months after.

yes sorry there was a little raggin in the earlier post, my bad


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## NicG (Jan 13, 2009)

Obviously a bounty on Cane Toads isn't a long term solution. The best it can do is buy a little time for them to come up with one. After all, every dead Cane Toad is one that can't multiply (anymore).

Given the amount of research money being invested into biological and other solutions, a bounty would be a comparatively small cost. But a large enough one to (hopefully) encourage the obese kids of Northern Australia to put game consoles down, get out into the fresh air and do some exercise ... !


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## ReptilianGuy (Jan 13, 2009)

NicG said:


> Obviously a bounty on Cane Toads isn't a long term solution. The best it can do is buy a little time for them to come up with one. After all, every dead Cane Toad is one that can't multiply (anymore).
> 
> Given the amount of research money being invested into biological and other solutions, a bounty would be a comparatively small cost. But a large enough one to (hopefully) encourage the obese kids of Northern Australia to put game consoles down, get out into the fresh air and do some exercise ... !


 
i shouldn't admit this but i just wet my self laughing.... how true is the last paragragh.
true the bounties offered in the past aren't very gr8. but 1 kid did the hard yards and made quite a bit out ofit by putting dog food stations around the streets and collecting them from there. it was almost worth doing full time. i think it was between 5-20c a toad. not to sure on what part of queensland did it, i think it may have been in the burdiken area


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## twodogs (Feb 4, 2009)

Earthling said:


> In answer to your question, I dont know anybody that freezes them, as Im inland from where they occur. I know a few people on the coast where Cane Toads do occur and most of these people do very little about them. If anything, they do as you do...drive over them.
> 
> A sport in ther instance of how many you get within a certain time frame is good. What you have suggested does actually run in different parts of the country. As I understood, there was even some funding about to run these programs! If your interested Im sure EPA etc could point you in the right direction if its still available.
> 
> ...


 
Earthling.. i am sorry that you can't help yourself.
Im sorry thatyou see nasty things like the cane toad as something that you need to save.

But i am more sorry for the fact that you DON'T want to save Australian wildlife..
What's the matter.... Isn't Australian wildlife important to you????
Why don't you care?????? Why are yu so sad that you don't give a tinkers toss?
I really feel sorry for you. 
Clean up Australia and SLAUGHTER a CANE TOAD TODAY... SLOWLY AND PAINFULLY


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## Fuscus (Feb 4, 2009)

shnakeyguy said:


> also they've proven that a keelback will refuse a cane toad unless it is desperate for food. or there is no other frogs in the area.... so they aren't a primary prey item for the keelback



from http://www.bio.usyd.edu.au/Shinelab/cane toads/toads.html (which is a good read)



> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Llewelyn, J., B. L. Phillips, and R. Shine. 2008. Sublethal costs associated with the consumption of toxic prey by snakes. Austral Ecology: in press.*[/FONT]
> [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One of the only Australian snakes that is immune to the cane toads' poison is the keelback, a harmless species that is widely distributed in the tropics. John followed up some earlier work by Ben, showing that although keelbacks can indeed eat toads without dying, the toads are still pretty awful in terms of food quality. First, the toads' poison tends to slow the snake down - so that it takes a long time to eat a toad, and then may be almost paralysed for quite a while. This could be bad news if a predator comes along. Second, even if the snake eats the toad, there doesn't seem to be much net nutritional value - snakes fed on toads tend to lose weight, whereas snakes fed the same amount of frogs grow bigger. So, although keelbacks can eat toads, they don't get much benefit from doing so.[/FONT]


I have been wondering why we were not knee deep in keelbacks


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## N0MAD (Feb 4, 2009)

Ahh, thank goodness the 12cm toad is also alive and well...

:x:x:x


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