# Lace monitor hatchlings



## Jason (Aug 27, 2012)

Hey guys and girls,
My 2011 clutch of lace monitors have finely started hatching after 236 days 
Pics show the parents, both about 5 years old now. The male is the cleaner one at the top of the pic. They both just came out of hibernation so I will try and get some updated pics sometime soon. All the bubs are bells and very clean. Which suggests that atleast one one of the parents may be homozygous for bells (bells phase in dominant). If this is true, 50% of the clutch would also be homozygous for bells and hence when paired with a normal will throw 100% bells. At this point I'll be holding onto atleast a few of them until I can sex them in a year or so.


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## Hazordous-Herps (Aug 27, 2012)

After 236 days I think you would be pretty happy for them to hatch. From the pictures they look amazing, I would love to own a lace monitor except I would need an outdoor enclosure.


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## bkevo (Aug 27, 2012)

jelious


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## RSPcrazy (Aug 27, 2012)

Very nice, congrats.


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## dangles (Aug 27, 2012)

congrats on the bubs, one day i will be able to house one of them


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## Becceles (Aug 27, 2012)

So cute! If only they stayed that small then maybe I could have one haha


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## Albino93 (Aug 27, 2012)

very nice , there pattern looks pretty clean, im hoping to own a lacie in a few years time


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## Pilbarensis (Aug 27, 2012)

Such stunning monitors! Awesome Bells, you've got a very good pair if the hatchies are that clean. The only downside of this topic is that I'm jealous, pity I'm too young to keep one... or two. Mind showing any more pics of the adults and maybe their setup?


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## Flaviruthless (Aug 27, 2012)

Congratulations on such amazing babies! Have to be happy with that


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## Venomous_RBB (Aug 28, 2012)

Aww so cute, congrats 
Cant wait until I can own a monitor, especially Lacies


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## Shaggz (Aug 28, 2012)

They look awesome, would love lacies one day and the good thing is that my wife actually loves them as apposed to my snakes lol.
How big a clutch did yours lay?


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## Chris1 (Aug 28, 2012)

stunning!!

one day i will win lotto and have enough space to keep lacies!!!


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## AUSGECKO (Aug 28, 2012)

They look awesome Jase, what are those red marks on the males back?


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 28, 2012)

Well done! Some definate keepers there. What was your nest box arrangement and would you change anything next time?


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## geckoboy (Aug 28, 2012)

THAT IS THE CUTEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!!!![i typed this whole thing in caps but not sure if they ill show up]


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## Snowman (Aug 28, 2012)

Congrats. 
how did you incubate them?


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## RobynTRR (Aug 29, 2012)

Those are awesome, you have any pics bigger than thumbnails?


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## Jason (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the kind comments and PMs.

They are all very clean, in fact there's not a speck of black in their bands. 

The red 'marks' on the male is actually blood (not his!). Lets just say he is n enthusiastic feeder!

The lay box was just a big bin I cut a hole in and filled with peat moss. 

They were incubated over water at approx. 31 degrees.

At this point in time I wont be selling any. I plan on keeping a few back till I can sex them. However given how fast and big the grow I will have to move a few on in a couple of months. It would appear those are likely spoken for given the number of PMs in my inbox.


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 29, 2012)

Jason said:


> The lay box was just a big bin I cut a hole in and filled with peat moss.
> 
> They were incubated over water at approx. 31 degrees.



Thanks Jason, 

Can I ask how heat was supplied to the bin? I vaguely remember the pic of your lay box, it was a green plastic garbage bin with an entry in the upper side (can't seem to find the post)?

The over water method would seem the way forward!


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## Jason (Aug 29, 2012)

No heat supplied to the bin at all. Just placed it in the corner and she was happy to go in and have a dig. I only put the bin in a couple of days prior to her laying. I didn't sterilize the moss either, just pored it in straight from the bag.


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## Mr.James (Aug 29, 2012)

Congrats! They are absolute rippers!


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 29, 2012)

Jason said:


> No heat supplied to the bin at all. Just placed it in the corner and she was happy to go in and have a dig. I only put the bin in a couple of days prior to her laying. I didn't sterilize the moss either, just pored it in straight from the bag.



How simple's that! Thanks for sharing, Jason, that's very interesting and goes somewhat against conventional wisdom regarding the lack of heating and introduction of the nest box just prior to laying, obviously with great results. 

Another few questions, any ideas on the temperature within the hide leading up to/ immediately following the eggs being deposited and was the medium humid/moist and tightly compacted in any way?

Apologies for all the questions, but I'm hopefully and with any luck about to go through the same process myself this upcoming season. Perhaps a PM, if you prefer.


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## Jason (Aug 29, 2012)

I'll reply here for others who are interested to read also.
Firstly let me just mention I'm no expert! This was my first attempt and hence first time breeding these guys. 
The peat moss was relatively warm and moist when I put it in there. It was straight from the nursery section at bunnings and I would imagine it was full of all kinds of bacteria and goodies. I put two large bags in there and I didn't pack it hard, just enough so that it didn't fall out the hole. When I did that I picked her up and put her head in the hole, she walked off my hands and into the box where she stayed for a few min and started scratching around until she came out. A couple days later I noticed she had settled down and had eaten hence figured I have a dig around and see if I could find any eggs. After a while digging I found the eggs sitting at the very bottom of the bin. From there I just put them in a the incubator.


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## serpenttongue (Aug 29, 2012)

Jason, was the male removed during her egglaying?


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## imported_Varanus (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for sharing Jason, much appreciated.

Ditto what Serp has mentioned.


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## congo_python (Aug 29, 2012)

Congrats Jason they look the goods and very clean, what was your clutch size ?


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## Jason (Aug 29, 2012)

The male was left in there and didn't cause any issues. They honestly get on extremely well, it honestly appears that he cares for her. I know that sounds strange but they follow each other around and bask together a lot, as you can see in the two shots of them above.


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## proreptile (Aug 29, 2012)

Wow I want a bells like that Jason.


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## Albino93 (Aug 29, 2012)

Is there any way to sex them whilst young? if not, how old do they have to be before u can sex them?. And how are they sexed?, i heard its something to do with the head/back of the neck.


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## Marzzy (Aug 29, 2012)

They look amazing long incubation would defiantly be happy at the end.


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## black_headed_mon (Aug 30, 2012)

wow love pics of lil bubbas,congrats an soooo jealous!


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## Jason (Aug 30, 2012)

Albino93 said:


> Is there any way to sex them whilst young? if not, how old do they have to be before u can sex them?. And how are they sexed?, i heard its something to do with the head/back of the neck.



Cant sex them as hatchies but there are several ways as they age. 
1) Sometimes the personality of a female tends to be a little more shy. Stands true for my girl.
2) You may see the males hemipenes when he goes potty, which is how I figured out the sex of my male.
3) Males tend to have a slightly different head shape although I never really see any obvious difference and the animals need to be pretty much adult size if I recall correctly(?)
4) You get them X-rayed at about 1 m meter long.

I plan on holding back the majority and sexing them when they are of an appropriate size probably at about 12-18 months.


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## Albino93 (Aug 31, 2012)

ah ok, thanks for the info jason. Are u expecting any other lacie clutches to hatch or was that the only clutch?


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## congo_python (Aug 31, 2012)

Any more pics ?


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## jaylikesbeef (Sep 1, 2012)

Damn those are some of the finest lacies I've seen!


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## snakeman478 (Sep 1, 2012)

Nice bells mate. Have you tried hemipenal trans-illumination to sex the hatchies?


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## Jason (Sep 1, 2012)

snakeman478 said:


> Nice bells mate. Have you tried hemipenal trans-illumination to sex the hatchies?



From what I understand it isn't good on lacies because their not very tiny as hatchies hence the light doesn't penetrate well enough. I may be wrong...?

Will add some updated pics in a week or so. They are quite shy as young so I'll leave them alone for a bit longer before bothering them for individual pics. In the mean time they're eating me out of house and home!


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## Venomous_RBB (Sep 1, 2012)

I know I have already posted but I cant stop looking at them, congrats again mate, they are gorgeous.


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## ArcticMonkey (Sep 1, 2012)

Very nice animals you have there mate, glad to hear the hatchies are eating well for you.


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## snakeman478 (Sep 2, 2012)

I have never personally done it with laceys, but i know people who have and they reckon it works. Like you said i have done it with smaller species fairly accurately. Will try and give it a go when some of my lacey clutches hatch. Look forward to the pics. Where did you get your adults? Bonnett?


Jason said:


> From what I understand it isn't good on lacies because their not very tiny as hatchies hence the light doesn't penetrate well enough. I may be wrong...?
> 
> Will add some updated pics in a week or so. They are quite shy as young so I'll leave them alone for a bit longer before bothering them for individual pics. In the mean time they're eating me out of house and home!


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## crocdoc (Sep 2, 2012)

I've had no luck using the transillumination technique on lacie hatchlings. It's not a size issue, but the presence of an opaque black band covering the exact area of interest. I've yet to try it with a second set of hands, though, so perhaps if I can get someone to give me a hand with the squirming hatchling and light such that absolutely no light escapes around the tail the light may be strong enough to penetrate the black and show something?


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## Womagaunt (Sep 2, 2012)

so mad are they for sale nd how much?


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## Jason (Sep 3, 2012)

snakeman478 said:


> Where did you get your adults? Bonnett?



I Got the male from Danial Cull when he was a hatchie and the female from a mate when she was a couple years old but I'm not sure where he got her.



crocdoc said:


> I've had no luck using the transillumination technique on lacie hatchlings. It's not a size issue, but the presence of an opaque black band covering the exact area of interest. I've yet to try it with a second set of hands, though, so perhaps if I can get someone to give me a hand with the squirming hatchling and light such that absolutely no light escapes around the tail the light may be strong enough to penetrate the black and show something?



That's right, I never even thought about that but there would be a solid black band right in the way. Either way I'm happy to volunteer a second pair of hands if you'd like? It would be great to give it ago and see it done first hand. It'd definitely be worth the time and effort if we could get it to work.


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## crocdoc (Sep 3, 2012)

I have hatchlings at the moment. Send me a PM!


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## Jason (Sep 4, 2012)

Some more pics taken with my phone then cropped and brightened using Picasa3 because they were crap quality 
As I'm sure you can imagine they dont want to sit still, they just want to hide.


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## Albino93 (Sep 4, 2012)

very nice, looks like there desperatly trying to escape haha


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## Jason (Sep 4, 2012)

Enjoy


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## sharky (Sep 4, 2012)

Do you have to have any heating during winter/summer in their outdoor enclosure? Or do you just keep it natural?

Congrats on your gorgeous little guys  Good luck with them mate, wish you all the best!!!!


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## Monitor Madness (Sep 4, 2012)

Very nice mate, they are defiantly on my wish list


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## RobynTRR (Sep 5, 2012)

Those are spectacular!


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## Chris (Sep 6, 2012)

Stunning monitors Jason.


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