# What is the matter with everyone



## ronhalling (Sep 13, 2015)

*As the title suggests, what has happened to our community* ???, Since the forum was forced to shut down temporarily there has been very little activity within the tomes of our little group, especially in this general reptile discussion section, is it because new people do not like hearing the truth from experienced members from the group or has everyone just lost interest?, i noticed at the time of writing this post that there had been 83 "Members" that had visited today, surely at least 10% of those that had visited something new had happened in the last few days i.e. eggs hatching, eggs laid, new enclosure built, new snake bought or even some new pics of snakes in possession, previous to the shutdown the forum was rocking along at a nice clip, so how about we get going again and show our support for the new owner, post, post, post, stories, pics, new info and more.  ..................Ron


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## MatE (Sep 13, 2015)

Ive just come back after a stint of not really owning any reptiles,and recently getting back into them with a few new purchases,to find a few friends have been banned.I hadnt realized aps had changed hands either.


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## princessparrot (Sep 13, 2015)

They've probably joined some other online reptile group. 
i know I joined a lot of reptile keeping groups on Facebook while this site wasn't working, same with [MENTION=37955]Lawra[/MENTION]


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## Dragon_77 (Sep 13, 2015)

I also have notice that a lot of long time keepers don't seem to want to come on APS reptile forum or any other reptile forums much anymore like they use to.

I myself have been registered on APS reptile forum a few times since it first started way back in 2001, and l have be abuse or bullied by some who think they can treat others how they like and get away with it, that is one reason why l hardly post anything on this forum these days.

From what l can say it is because so many have started up their own groups on Facebook, they can chat online as well as buy and sell and swap there is just so many groups you can join on Facebook and you can start your very own group, that covers your interest no matter what species of reptile you like.

You don't have to pay a cent to buy - sell - swap on Facebook at all and this is the way to go these days, you can link up with those that you know and are happy to be friends with and chat to, you can block those that you don't want anything to do with on Facebook, if you decide to add someone to your block list they can no-longer make contact with you, or can they see photos or read anything you post on Facebook, so l think reptile forums are a thing of the past IMO.


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## arevenant (Sep 13, 2015)

I poke about a bit but have mostly just lost interest in bothering with online forums of any kind too much these days...


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 13, 2015)

Maybe they are too busy with their lives and trying to stay employed and simply don't have the time to post much here .

Perhaps others have had a gut full of the nastiness and the trolls and decided to not bother. 

Maybe most of them just lurk and read and don't feel a burning desire to respond to anything posted here lately.


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## pinefamily (Sep 14, 2015)

I think it's a bit of everything that people above have already mentioned: partly because the site went down, partly because of FB groups, partly because of APS' previous reputation,partly because of the more difficult times we live in.
But to answer the other part of your original post Ron, we're not breeding anything this season, building an aviary setup for our Mertens', increasing our rat breeding, and haven't bought anything new (yet ).


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## Waterrat (Sep 14, 2015)

Face book took over and that for several reasons: 1/ people post under their real names and not under pseudonyms. 2/ You can choose to join groups(s) with particular interest and focus (plenty to choose from). 3/ Nasty and irrelevant comments are usually promptly deleted by admin. 4/ Stupid questions (yes, there is such thing) are largely ignored. 5/ There are many experienced keepers, breeders, professionals and academics involved (including vets) in some of the groups who are happy to help others. 6/ Free advertising. JMO

cheers
Michael Cermak


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## Dragon_77 (Sep 14, 2015)

Waterrat said:


> Face book took over and that for several reasons: 1/ people post under their real names and not under pseudonyms. 2/ You can choose to join groups(s) with particular interest and focus (plenty to choose from). 3/ Nasty and irrelevant comments are usually promptly deleted by admin. 4/ Stupid questions (yes, there is such thing) are largely ignored. 5/ There are many experienced keepers, breeders, professionals and academics involved (including vets) in some of the groups who are happy to help others. 6/ Free advertising. JMO
> 
> cheers
> Michael Cermak



Michael Cermak, l agree with what you have said in your post about Facebook has taken over well said, and l could not have said it better myself.

Regards,

Dragon_77...( Les ).8)


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## Stuart (Sep 14, 2015)

I am always happy to hear of ways to improve the forums to get some interest and visits back. I understand everyone uses Facebook and that it may be easier in certain respects to post things as well as sell/buy/etc however I have always found forums easier to find archived posts and information. 

Yes APS needs some improvement, I agree and I have attempted to fix up a few things which I hope is generating interest but I would like to hear from you if its working or if its not. 

The site feedback forum is available for anyone to suggest what can be done better -> https://aussiepythons.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/5411-Site-Feedback and my inbox is always open to suggestions


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## Waterrat (Sep 14, 2015)

The change of ownership is definitely a step in the right direction.


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## apprenticegnome (Sep 14, 2015)

I have been put off by many things:
1: The method of change of ownership (As a group all members should be informed rather than a behind the scenes dealing).
2: The old site needed regulation but it just went from virtually nil to insanely ridiculous with over deletion of posts.
3: The holier than thou attitude of certain members who attack others rather than help.
4: The thinned skinned rule that prohibits commenting on how the site is run. It is a forum and people should be allowed to air their views within reason without them being deleted.
5: The double standard in advertising rules. For example sponsors posting in forum categories other than for sale with posts like "Just made this, will be adding them to our new line of....". I agree sponsors are great for the site but when you buy an advertisement it shouldn't allow you immunity in breaching the advertising rules that everyone else has to abide by. I remember a comment by a moderator saying how they were over people posting in the wrong categories, well all advertisement belongs either in the banners purchased or the "For Sale" section.

I know my post will be deleted because it will breach so many ridiculous rules that prohibit this site being a Forum but had make it a Dictatorship and hence the reason why myself and several friends either don't post here or have left. Only time will tell if this site will ever regain the popularity it once had.


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## adderboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Like many other APS members, I participate on other forums as well, and without exception ALL are much quieter these days, and probably for much the same sort of reasons mentioned by Waterrat, with Facebook being perhaps the number one alternative. I'm not on FB, which might explain my continued use of APS and other forums, but there wouldn't be many who aren't on FB.

Simon


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## Chris (Sep 14, 2015)

The forum ownership & it's takeover is none of our business. That should happen 'behind closed doors', as was the case.

I think, since the takeover, thing have improved substantially. Stu is listening to the membership & communicating extremely well when site issues occur. The previous mods & owners were the ones with the 'holier than thou' attitude, collectively they were an arrogant group of individuals who ran this forum into the ground causing many members to leave. The forum is in a better place without them.

Sponsors pay money to support the forum, they deserve increased privileges. 

Facebook is a joke, yes the groups are popular but you have no ability to search for information, hence the same/similar questions get asked again & again. Then there's groups (a Lace monitor group as an example) where people just post the same photos of the same animals in wooden boxes every few months. Boooooring. At least with forums like APS there is a wealth of information available to search through. 

Hopefully things turn around & activity increases. Bitching about it with negativity isn't going to get anyone anywhere though.


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## Stuart (Sep 14, 2015)

apprenticegnome said:


> I have been put off by many things:
> 1: The method of change of ownership (As a group all members should be informed rather than a behind the scenes dealing).
> 2: The old site needed regulation but it just went from virtually nil to insanely ridiculous with over deletion of posts.
> 3: The holier than thou attitude of certain members who attack others rather than help.
> ...



Rather than delete your post, I'll address some of your concerns. I don't expect it to change your views however I am hopefully it might explain some things in the interest of honesty. 

1. The site changed hands to keep it running and functional after the issues that plagued it. At that time (and still) my efforts and time were devoted to resurrecting lost content and ensuring we weren't caught out again. As this was all at my own cost and effort with the help of a few others, I did not feel the need to promote the new ownership until I had something positive to back up my post with so that people could see an effort was being made and I wasn't looking for my own 2 minutes of fame. 
2. New mod blood and an increase in mods will do that. I'll apologise openly if people thought I was part of the problem.
3. Fair call however that also brings up point 2 of your post. Would it be construed as over moderation of the site if we deleted the posts? I agree that the site needs better manners and we didn't handle it in the best way possible however that leaves us room for improvement
4. This will be changing and I have hopefully encouraged feedback with the newly created feedback forum as well as multiple posts asking people to PM me if they prefer. However we need to bear in mind that the site is run for a group of people, not individuals.
5. Sponsors pay for the privilege of advertising their products anywhere in the forum. I will concede that some posts went over the top however if it did not detract from the thread content. Some folks don't care for banners or know where the sponsor list is and some folks may have been using Tapatalk which does not show banners and information. 

I did not take over APS to make money nor did I do it to make a name for myself. I took over the site and its content to ensure it stayed up for the Reptile Keepers & Enthusiasts of Australia to share their opinions, insights and views and to encourage new keepers while at the same time having an open resource that's easier to navigate than Facebook. 

Whats been done is done and its going to be a hell of a long road forward and the best I can offer to the membership of APS is that I will try to fix up what I can however I can't promise to fix it all. 

Stuart


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## HiramAbiff (Sep 14, 2015)

Personally, I think charging private breeders to advertise their animals was a massive step in the wrong direction. With fb and the other online classified sites being completely free and reaching a far broader audience it seems counter-productive to be charging for the service, especially at the price it is offered at. 

I have been around these forums for about a decade and one of the biggest problems was admins/mods deleting people from the forum because of their own personal problems with members.


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## Herpo (Sep 14, 2015)

Some members moved to ARF during the shut down, like me, but decided to stay. But yes, Facebook is totally to blame. I'm a member of the Aussie invertebrates forum, but it maxes out at about 2 posts a day now, because people have moved to FB.


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## Dragon_77 (Sep 14, 2015)

HiramAbiff said:


> like you say you have been around these forums for about a decade and so have l ( Les ) and one of the biggest problems was admins/moderators deleting people from the forum because of their own personal problems with other members.
> 
> l had my profile and account by the previous owner and moderators on this forum deleted a few times when l complained to them how l was being treated by other members on here at times which is not good at all, we all should be treated with fairness and full respect on any reptile forum IMO, otherwise no-one will want to be part of this forum or share their knowledge and experience they have gained in reptile keeping and breeding with other members.
> 
> ...


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## Waterrat (Sep 14, 2015)

Chris said:


> Facebook is a joke, yes the groups are popular but you have no ability to search for information, hence the same/similar questions get asked again & again. Then there's groups (a Lace monitor group as an example) where people just post the same photos of the same animals in wooden boxes every few months. Boooooring. At least with forums like APS there is a wealth of information available to search through.



Chris, I dare to disagree, at least in part. Facebook is not a joke, it's packed with information and navigating it is just like on any other forum. The point is - you have to choose the right groups to be in and be very resilient to friendship offers and group invitations otherwise you will be reading about people's private problems, kids, politics, food allergies, etc. to no end. The groups that have smart admin and moderators are good and productive, those whose in the hands of ego-driven idiots and 10 minute experts are to be avoided. At least you have that choice there. One group I am particularly fond of is administered by a vet and moderated by other vets and people in the vet industry. The help, advice and solutions they offer are simply great, and no charge for consultation. There are also many specialist groups where members indulge in intelligent debates on various topics. I left APS because the previous owner was a moron and I since found face book to be a very good medium.


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## ronhalling (Sep 14, 2015)

Well !!! how about that, we are talking and airing problems from the past that Stu can now address, I do not have any interest in the way the forum is run nor do i want to, but the new owner cannot fix what he does not know is broken, so now we have the ability to tell the owner/admin/mods what is burning our bums i think we should all do it.
Facebook has it's place and it's supporters, I too belong to a couple of different Facebook groups but they are just that "groups" and after a couple of days it becomes very hard to keep track of particular posts, whereas in a forum like this posts are so much easier to keep track of and because most of the people in this forum are not fly by nighters information they give out is priceless imo, ok some long time members here can be a bit callous when replying to posts that come across as being inane or have been answered so many times before, 1 long time member in particular who is a bit abrasive in his replies, gives out advice that is almost encyclopedic, but because of his attitude to people gets a lot of flack, but if we were to ignore the caustic comments and concentrate on the advice enclosed in his replies we would all learn a lot more than we now know.
I don't know why people pinpoint advertising as a problem in this forum, if you want to pay for advertising that is pointed at a particular audience then this is the place, if not then sell on facebook or GT, having advertising spread out in the forum is just common place nowadays and should not even be thought about as a problem.
There are so many pro's about using forums such as APS that the con's fade into insignificance as far as i am concerned. What i would like to see here for the time being until this forum gets all it's teeth cut is a helpful hints section for the admins/mods to peruse until this forum is to a stage where it is a smile zone for everyone.  .....................Ron


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## Redemption (Sep 14, 2015)

Most things in life go full circle. People will be back, they always come back. Whether it's the Facebook group fads, people being burned by scam artists or anyother dramas that go on. Mark my words... "She'll be back"


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## Allan (Sep 15, 2015)

I don't think that fb has taken over just because this forum was so "mismanaged" It seems to be a trend with a lot of forums, both here in Australia and overseas. What I miss on fb though, is the wealth of information that this site that can provide with a simple search and the ease with how you can follow threads. Particularly if you only visit the forums a couple of times a week.
As for the sometimes heated exchanges, how boring if we all agreed, a debate should be able and allowed to stir up a verbal mudpool.


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## BredliFreak (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm definitely still on, but I'm too lazy to post and I like reading the older threads as well, they can be very interesting. It is a shame though, that this forum is close to being abandoned but if we can get more people back on board, invite them on FB to come back potentially we could get this site running again. I personally value the advice of the 'seasoned pros' but I guess there are some people who just challenge things and can't savour the advice. I think the change of ownership was a good idea and I KNOW that Stu will do a great job of managing the site.

Regards,
Bredli


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## ronhalling (Sep 15, 2015)

That's just it Bred, we need to get it out there that APS is under new management, it is not really like the old management was really a big problem but more like they had become like an old favorite blanket, felt good to have around but did not really offer much in the way of warmth and started taking us for granted, I have run quite a few forums in the past (some with 100k + memberships) and know the frailties and unpredictable nature of their membership (and admins/mods) it is a fine balancing act trying to keep everyone happy and in the end can become Stalin like, it is at this point members start to stagnate and start to move on, it is now up to Stu to salvage what was once a great forum and show the long time (and new) members that it is going to once again be great, even if it means going off at a tangent and bring in different and better subject matter as well as more interesting sections, this is where he needs to take notice of the members with their ideas on what could make a better APS, lol i tend to ramble on a bit when i am passionate about something but i truly believe APS is worth saving. It is a good idea to advertise on all the different FaceBook groups telling them that a new improved APS is is endeavoring to get all their old and new members to come have a look, it might tempt some of the older brains trust to return and once again give us the invaluable information we crave.  ..........................Ron


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## twistedFrog (Sep 15, 2015)

Well as quite a new comer to the hobby, having only been owning snakes a few years. I am also only a very relatively new comer to this site. What I can say as a newb is that I do not know the difference from before and now! What I can comment on is the fact that I have found the site very useful, every question I have had, I have found the answer through searching the threads. I have seen very little of the ill mannered folk, however, I have seen it. In all walks of life, there are bad examples of behaviour, each has their own unique personality, but each has to live with themselves and karma is a boomerang, that hits harder than it was thrown. So I tend to just ignore the bad and focus on the good. 
I will continue to use the site for reference as it has proved worthwhile so far. I will commit to the membership when I become self sufficient, trying to build my own business at the moment in graphic and web design, but as the content is freely made available, I cannot recommend it more highly as a resource for anyone interested in the hobby. 
I think that operating this site must be a huge undertaking and if, as stuart mentioned it is not for monetary reasons, then I applaud the courage and commitment to do so. I know as a web designer the amount of work that goes into building a site and then maintaining it and finding ways to fix the broke bits can be all consuming. So my guess is Stuart, probably works full time (gotta feed the obsession some how) and his spare time must be jam packed with site maint. etc. just a guess, but either way I applaud the dedication to undertake it! 

What everyone can do is simply treat others the way you would like to be treated and continue to share knowledge, advice and your interests, for the betterment of the whole community. If we all took five/ten minutes everyday to give back to the world, can you imagine what could be achieved??? Let alone just here within the APS community. After all aren't we all here for the because we love pythons, monitors, turtles, lizards etc. imagine the possibilities if everyone adopted an attitude that "things are what they are until they are different, but I will give what I can when I can, because I can" Then the cumulative effect would rock all our worlds!!! 

Sorry maybe I might be a little philosophical, but I just imagine the possibilities that we are all capable of if we let go the negativity. I am in no way accusing or setting blame, nor acknowledging that this is a prevalent thing. I am just hopeful for a better experience for this wonderful world we live in. 

Cheers


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## Snapped (Sep 15, 2015)

Well I hope people come back, it's a wealth of information, and I learned so much through APS and still have much more to learn, I missed APS when it went offline.
Plus I can look at all the new snakes here I can't afford (yet)


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## Blackdog (Sep 15, 2015)

Interesting stuff. I wasn't even aware that the site had changed hands.
Reading this thread it appears to me that Stuart might have what it takes to get this up and running again or at the very least give it a red hot go. Good luck to you anyway mate.
I don't do facebook and as you can see from the handfull of posts in the past 10 years or so I keep my opinions to myself most of the time. When I was breeding and selling animals though I loved nothing better than trying to help new owners understand the needs of their new animal and look after it really well, but I did have an ulterior motive in that I wanted my babies to thrive not just survive. Nowdays I concentrate on trying to take pics of wild critters and finish my bloody book that has been 20 odd years in the making. The hobby is great fun and the passion of most of the people involved is undeniable so we should probably use everthing at our disposal including APS to learn and grow with the hobby we love.
I received my APS subscription notice email today and I wasn't going to renew but I think I will now.
Cheers,
Mike.


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## vampstorso (Sep 15, 2015)

Old management were beyond arrogant, 
So in that sense it would probably be an advantage to make it clear it's under new management even if it isn't technically something people are entitled to know 

Also keeping with that same theme perhaps an update on the look of the site might help differentiate it from the messy past 

Perhaps a new colour scheme, logo or forum server platform etc (easier said than done of course), 

I think the difference between old and new needs to be more obvious 

The feel of the old board is why I stopped visiting, 
And only really now seeing it's in New hands and Stu seems decent bloke am I starting to visit regularly again ...but if I didn't just happen to notice I'd still avoid it


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## ronhalling (Sep 16, 2015)

Hey Vamp, these are the sort of posts and comments that Stu and the team need to hear to be able to make the site a more enjoyable place to visit, i know by seeing the likes that Stu is reading them and am sure once he see's that more and more of the wonderful APS regulars are coming back he will put into practice the suggestions he see's here (if feasible). It is good to see you and Blackdog back here, looking forward to seeing more.  .......................Ron


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## Stuart (Sep 16, 2015)

Blackdog said:


> Interesting stuff. I wasn't even aware that the site had changed hands.
> Reading this thread it appears to me that Stuart might have what it takes to get this up and running again or at the very least give it a red hot go. Good luck to you anyway mate.
> I don't do facebook and as you can see from the handfull of posts in the past 10 years or so I keep my opinions to myself most of the time. When I was breeding and selling animals though I loved nothing better than trying to help new owners understand the needs of their new animal and look after it really well, but I did have an ulterior motive in that I wanted my babies to thrive not just survive. Nowdays I concentrate on trying to take pics of wild critters and finish my bloody book that has been 20 odd years in the making. The hobby is great fun and the passion of most of the people involved is undeniable so we should probably use everthing at our disposal including APS to learn and grow with the hobby we love.
> I received my APS subscription notice email today and I wasn't going to renew but I think I will now.
> ...



Thanks Mike, I appreciate the kind words and the support



vampstorso said:


> Old management were beyond arrogant,
> So in that sense it would probably be an advantage to make it clear it's under new management even if it isn't technically something people are entitled to know
> 
> Also keeping with that same theme perhaps an update on the look of the site might help differentiate it from the messy past
> ...



Thanks vampstorso, I will take those suggestions on board as there have been a few comments on updating the look of the site. I can't afford to do it right this very moment but I might have a think as I am sure there are alternative ways. In regards to the server platform, I have changed that (which accounted for the horrendous downtime in June/July), but I also might misunderstand your comment, were you talking about the forum software itself? Cheers for the comments



ronhalling said:


> Hey Vamp, these are the sort of posts and comments that Stu and the team need to hear to be able to make the site a more enjoyable place to visit, i know by seeing the likes that Stu is reading them and am sure once he see's that more and more of the wonderful APS regulars are coming back he will put into practice the suggestions he see's here (if feasible). It is good to see you and Blackdog back here, looking forward to seeing more.  .......................Ron



Ron, thanks for all your support and time invested as well mate. I appreciate you helping getting these sorts of discussions rolling. I can't promise to change everything for the better but I will say that I'll try my best to improve the forum for everyone.


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## Deano (Sep 16, 2015)

Good to know it’s under new management, all the best with it Stu!


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## briansworms (Sep 16, 2015)

I don't own any snakes or lizards just an Eastern Long Neck Turtle. My main reason I pop in is because I sell worms ( composting / fishing) and woodies. Now to make a success of that( mainly the woodies) I need to get to know people and find out what is going on in the reptile world. Sadly I work full time and do the other as a hobby which makes me 7 days a week busy. I want to build the worms and woodies so I can do it full time. Till then any spare time I get I try to pop in. I recently upgraded to a Power seller once I had sufficient stock. Well as sufficient as I can be. I do my best to supply quality woodies that don't die on the way or soon after you receive them. That's why I never sell old woodies.
I think Stuart has his hands full and I thank him because without forums like this we would all end up on FB. I don't do FB
regards
Brian


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## cement (Sep 16, 2015)

Its great that this site has changed hands, best thing that could've happened to it. 
So good luck to the new APS.

Its unfortunate that (and i'll bring it up) jags were brought in to the country. This factor alone has been a major force in dividing the reptile keeping community, and I reckon that it also became a large part of why so many people quit the forums and took to facebook where jaggers and purists could get away from the angst that the arrival of these animals has brought in with each other. It's difficult for newcomers to the hobby to understand this rift. 

The growth of the "hobby" has been a pretty interesting journey, it never used to be a hobby as such, but in the words of JW after the first very successful wild expo, "its gone from a hobby to now an industry". This also brings a myriad of factors that can bring along frustrations and malcontent. Expo's these days are really nothing more then place for breeders to make bucks, I like to go occasionally and catch up with friends, but the rest (for me anyway) is just a massive sales pitch and I have absolutely no interest. The original wild expo has sadly been surpassed by the "industry".

I have met a lot of really nice people on this forum and also the opposite..... I've been thanked wholeheartedly by some and had my life threatened by others, the reptile world is and always will be "colourful". 
Most good, honourable keepers and breeders, leave these forums because they get sick of having to endlessly defend themselves for speaking their minds.
You wouldn't be able to count the amount of people I have seen/met who seem to be good, but really have no real empathy or concern for the animals they keep, as long as they're pumping out a sellable product. Its a minefield for newcomers, who would be surprised at what some of the "big name" breeders actually get away with at times. 

It's definatly an interesting scene!

personally, I kept getting banned by a couple of particular moderators for some pretty lame excuses, mind you there were times when I deserved it, i'm ok with that, i'd make apologies if I felt it necessary and cop it on the chin....... but there was one time when I got suspended for two weeks after I got a rather large (probably a world record) clutch of diamonds, and for fun said I would give away for FREE , a hatchling to the first person who could guess how many hatched out. The reason for the suspension was unauthorised money collecting!!

I don't want to or have any advice for the new site owners, i've never run or moderated a forum so wouldn't know where to start anyway, just wanted to throw in some reflections that might be a bit of a read.

So good luck to the new APS, may your skin be thick as a lacie and your sense of humour as indomitable as a large wild male salty!!


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## hulloosenator (Sep 16, 2015)

HiramAbiff said:


> Personally, I think charging private breeders to advertise their animals was a massive step in the wrong direction. With fb and the other online classified sites being completely free and reaching a far broader audience it seems counter-productive to be charging for the service, especially at the price it is offered at.
> 
> I have been around these forums for about a decade and one of the biggest problems was admins/mods deleting people from the forum because of their own personal problems with members.[/Q
> Well said ..... i agree totally. The site must be made free to advertise the sale of reptiles or else we just go to another site that is free. And yes , there were certain Admins that took an instant dislike to certain comments , and no way in hell did they reason or try to compromise - it was just boot you off.
> ...


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## ronhalling (Sep 17, 2015)

Hey there hulloosenator, the 1 big prob with advertising on FB and some of the other online classified sites is the fact your add quickly disappears into the netherworld among the myriad of other posts and you have too keep bumping them up which is very time consuming at times, Having to pay for an add in here mostly keeps the sellers honest and you usually get just what you have bought especially if it is 1 of the bigger well known sellers, but each to their own.
the Quote tag thing is best done by using the "wrap


> tags around selected text" icon at the end of the item bar above, the copy paste the text you want wrapped in between the ]text[ i.e.
> 
> 
> > I think charging private breeders to advertise their animals was a massive step in the wrong direction.
> ...


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## Waterrat (Sep 17, 2015)

Cement, thank you for posting your thoughts. I agree with every sentence you wrote, especially re- the events that caused the fragmentation and the current state of the "hobby" - spot on.

Cheers
Michael


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## Sdaji (Sep 17, 2015)

ronhalling said:


> Hey there hulloosenator, the 1 big prob with advertising on FB and some of the other online classified sites is the fact your add quickly disappears into the netherworld among the myriad of other posts and you have too keep bumping them up which is very time consuming at times, Having to pay for an add in here mostly keeps the sellers honest and you usually get just what you have bought especially if it is 1 of the bigger well known sellers, but each to their own.
> the Quote tag thing is best done by using the "wrap
> 
> 
> ...


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## MatE (Sep 17, 2015)

A slight name change would be nice.I need a new decal(Sticker)for my car since i sort of rolled the last one lol.


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## ronhalling (Sep 18, 2015)

[MENTION=688]Sdaji[/MENTION]


> Sites like RDU are free, and as a marketplace are even better than a forum like APS



I do not want to start a slanging match but i find that statement very amusing considering the amount of "SCAM" advertising found on that particular site, another reason paying for advertising works better than free, when you have to pay for Adds you tend not to waste your time "scamming"  .......................Ron


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## Firepac (Sep 18, 2015)

$10 to be a subscriber which allows you to sell up to 20 reptiles a year, or 50 cents/animal, seems pretty cheap to me! Especially as that money is ploughed back into keeping APS going.


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## briansworms (Sep 18, 2015)

Paying to become a Power Seller is worth it. The cost is not much. Just like PayPal. I am happy to pay the fees. Recenty l couldn't get past the 1 page on RDU on several devices. It is working again now so l relisted my add. Hopefully word of mouth will bring people back


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## Sdaji (Sep 18, 2015)

Ron: Good point about scammers. Forums are less prone to them because people chat and tell moderators, who ban the scammers, but it's a point I hadn't thought about. After a while they're easy to spot and are just a laugh, but to newbies they can be a problem, and potentially a big one.


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## Chris (Sep 18, 2015)

ronhalling said:


> I do not want to start a slanging match but i find that statement very amusing considering the amount of "SCAM" advertising found on that particular site, another reason paying for advertising works better than free, when you have to pay for Adds you tend not to waste your time "scamming"  .......................Ron



Ron you 'talk the talk' well but don't back it up do you? This thread HERE you wrote:



ronhalling said:


> So Stu, are you now going to open a BitCoin & PayPal acc and hope the Lads and Ladettes of APS will throw a bit of coin your way to help offset some of the hosting costs until the subsciption $$$ start coming in ????,* i would probs throw a few bucks at the forum to help out *and hope other long timers would do so as well



You still going to throw a few bucks at the forum?


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## Wokka (Sep 18, 2015)

We don't want to become like the Government where everything is assessed by dollars. Some people put in time and some people put in dollars depending upon their situation.I know 10 years ago i put in money because i didn't have the time and my daughter put in time (as a moderator) because she had more time than money. There are more ways of helping the hobby than putting money on the table. My understanding is that Ron was insrtumental in getting the Port Macquarie expo off the ground which benefits everyone!


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## Stuart (Sep 18, 2015)

I am hearing what everyone says about charging to advertise and to be honest, it has been something I am been thinking about since I took over the forums. The main reason I haven't just turned off the setting and opened it up to everyone is that it would be unfair to those who had invested to be subscribers/power sellers and Sponsors and I am not in a position to refund all who had purchased those accounts. 

I am happy to wear the cost of the forums as its a resource for all of us and like I mentioned earlier, I am not in it for the money. And if it helps, every dollar I have got so far from those supporting APS has gone into getting all the licensing and add on products up to date and all future funds will be used for improvements.

Anyway, that's some Friday morning input from your local site admin


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## vampstorso (Sep 18, 2015)

Stuart said:


> I am hearing what everyone says about charging to advertise and to be honest, it has been something I am been thinking about since I took over the forums. The main reason I haven't just turned off the setting and opened it up to everyone is that it would be unfair to those who had invested to be subscribers/power sellers and Sponsors and I am not in a position to refund all who had purchased those accounts.
> 
> I am happy to wear the cost of the forums as its a resource for all of us and like I mentioned earlier, I am not in it for the money. And if it helps, every dollar I have got so far from those supporting APS has gone into getting all the licensing and add on products up to date and all future funds will be used for improvements.
> 
> Anyway, that's some Friday morning input from your local site admin



If you went that way, 
Perhaps something like for the remainder of subscriptions only subscriber's ads appear on the home page and hence get that extra bit of advertising, 
And others can only advertise in a section that you have to click into to see? 

I'm not sure what to do for power sellers though, 
Perhaps either continue to set a limit for free ads or list power sellers in a similar way to sponsers?

- - - Updated - - -

Also perhaps controversial, 
But upon clicking on a friend's profile I saw more names of great old members that also left the drama, 
With how many people have voiced how happy they are about the change and saying they'd like to give the new forum another go, 
Maybe sending out a tastefully done email notice letting members know, perhaps an introduction of yourself and a brief over view of your hopes for the new forum? That way people who no longer visit might see it and pop in


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## twistedFrog (Sep 18, 2015)

> Thanks vampstorso, I will take those suggestions on board as there have been a few comments on updating the look of the site. I can't afford to do it right this very moment but I might have a think as I am sure there are alternative ways. In regards to the server platform, I have changed that (which accounted for the horrendous downtime in June/July), but I also might misunderstand your comment, were you talking about the forum software itself? Cheers for the comments


Hey Stuart
In regard to being able to afford to do stuff, I would be happy to offer my services to redesign the logo and some cool icons to go on the forums, member profiles and the like. I am a graphic designer and do this stuff all day everyday, so I know how to deliver the file types needed for this stuff. I would be happy to do it as my little contribution to the community that has given to me in spades in the short time I have been here. Yes that means i would be happy to do it for free. Anyway PM me if you are keen to discuss?


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## Prof_Moreliarty (Sep 18, 2015)

Stuart said:


> I am hearing what everyone says about charging to advertise and to be honest, it has been something I am been thinking about since I took over the forums. The main reason I haven't just turned off the setting and opened it up to everyone is that it would be unfair to those who had invested to be subscribers/power sellers and Sponsors and I am not in a position to refund all who had purchased those accounts.
> 
> I am happy to wear the cost of the forums as its a resource for all of us and like I mentioned earlier, I am not in it for the money. And if it helps, every dollar I have got so far from those supporting APS has gone into getting all the licensing and add on products up to date and all future funds will be used for improvements.
> 
> Anyway, that's some Friday morning input from your local site admin



Mate i dont think the subscription is much if its $10 per subscription for 20 animals sold 50c per animal etc to keep the forum running i will happily pay it when and if i have stock to sell!!


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## ronhalling (Sep 19, 2015)

Chris said:


> Ron you 'talk the talk' well but don't back it up do you? This thread HERE you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You still going to throw a few bucks at the forum?


 [MENTION=41817]Chris[/MENTION] I have been waiting for a Donations button to Appear on the Board so i can make a Donation to the Forum, I am not particularly interested in becoming a Subscriber and paying a yearly stipend as i don't sell anything, likewise i am not interested in having a bold title added to my name, i am very happy being seen as a regular garden variety member, but if that is going to be the only way to make a donation then so be it thats what i will do.
I really don't know what this statement *"**Ron you 'talk the talk' well but don't back it up do you?"*​ has to do with the first part of the QUOTED text in your post or why you Quoted it in the 1st place but please explain as up till now i have always thought of you as 1 of the more level headed of those in the veterans group on this forum, has the fact the Forum changed hands unbalanced you or is the lack of inane posts for you guys to shred made you a bit toey, i thought by getting some more people talking it might bring some more attention back to the Forum and get some of the older members back to posting, but if this is the result i am having second thoughts.  ..................Ron


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## CrazyNut (Sep 19, 2015)

I think Stu is doing an absolutely fantastic job! He communicates with the members and try's his best at fixing problems. I agree the change of hands wasn't really any of our business and should have been kept hush hush as it was. I disagree with everyones hatred for Facebook. Facebook is fantastic for the community and is a great way to spread word about reptiles news and upcoming events. So what if the same question is asked numerous times? I would rather answer the same question and help a newby then not help at all. In regards to the cost of posting for sale ads, I don't know any forum that doesn't charge you, its been that way for a long time and its not like it cost you an arm and a leg.... In the past the forum has had a rather bad rep and unfortunately it was deserving of that rep but it happened in the past, happened in the past. APS is at a new, fresh, chapter and I think with its new owner APS will gain a new rep, a good rep.

@Dragon_77 just in regard to your first post about Facebook having the blocking system, APS does have practically the same system and its actually simpler then the Facebook version, all you do is go to a members profile and click "add to ignore list" which is under their avatar in the same place as "Send private message" etc


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## Dragon_77 (Sep 19, 2015)

l had to delete it.....


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## CrazyNut (Sep 19, 2015)

Dragon_77 said:


> @Dragon_77 just in regard to your first post about Facebook having the blocking system, APS does have practically the same system and its actually simpler then the Facebook version, all you do is go to a members profile and click "add to ignore list" which is under their avatar in the same place as "Send private message" etc
> 
> CrazyNut Thanks for letting me know that APS does have a blocking system just like Facebook, l already knew that cause l have used it on APS in 2005 to 2008, to block some members on here but l will not disclose who they are or whether l still have these members block or not, you weren't to know that l knew that APS had a blocking system has most websites do these days.



If you knew then why say that Facebook is ahead of reptile forums because of that feature??????


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## Dragon_77 (Sep 19, 2015)

l had to delete it....


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## getarealdog (Sep 19, 2015)

Been busy but mostly just been slack. Will make the effort now. Cheers.


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## stimigex (Sep 20, 2015)

I was banned indefinitely and branded a trouble make by the previous owners for questioning the problem of favoritism when it come to certain people closest to them in regards to the advertising rule, As the very first "power seller" account on here I though my queries were warranted and just plus they were never asked in an open forum always in a admin PM. I was Beeman in a previous life and this action toward me put me off this site for the most part. I hope that the new ownership does well and the site prospers under their management!


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## Waterrat (Sep 20, 2015)

I think many of us left because of Slateman's sheer arrogance and incompetence in dealing with people. Unfortunately, the mods were under his thumb but some of them exhibited fair degree of favoritism and power play too. My question is - how is the new management going to deal with posts like "what should be my next snake", "need a name for my snake", "built this new cage, what should I put in it?", "I suppose this is a stupid question ...", etc.. This is what drags this and other forums down, lift the bar and things will improve all around. JMO

cheers
Michael


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## Tigerlily (Sep 20, 2015)

Good god have no idea what happened - will type proper response from computer later

- - - Updated - - -
[MENTION=20031]Waterrat[/MENTION] legit question! Before I buzz off I had to suggest: Forum for newbies? That way the ones who find those posts annoying don't even have to see them


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 20, 2015)

$10 to become a subscriber and be able to advertise on this board seems very reasonable to me. 

I just hope this place doesn't become like other boards by becoming just a venue for a few sponsors or the owners to drum up business (don't dare upset the sponsors or the largest volume selling subscribers or disagree with the resident "experts").

I've always thought the prime purposes of places like this were to share experiences, share knowledge, help each other, and promote THE HOBBY as opposed to promoting a few money making businesses.

Just saying ...

- - - Updated - - -



Waterrat said:


> I think many of us left because of Slateman's sheer arrogance and incompetence in dealing with people. Unfortunately, the mods were under his thumb but some of them exhibited fair degree of favoritism and power play too. My question is - how is the new management going to deal with posts like "what should be my next snake", "need a name for my snake", "built this new cage, what should I put in it?", "I suppose this is a stupid question ...", etc.. This is what drags this and other forums down, lift the bar and things will improve all around. JMO
> 
> cheers
> Michael



Yep , there was a lot a cliquiness,, and piling it on when someone was deemed worthy trolling / attacking / persecuting.


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## Chris (Sep 20, 2015)

ronhalling said:


> I am not particularly interested in becoming a Subscriber and paying a yearly stipend as i don't sell anything



You don't think that spending $0.03 per day to support & use the forum is worth it then? Regardless of the sale factor? Wow.

I started the Adelaide Reptile Forum several years ago & thus know what both a financial & personal cost it takes to set up & maintain a forum, I'm thankful I had many members contributing to its success financially, hence why I'm questioning why people think spending $10.00 annually is not worth it.



ronhalling said:


> if that is going to be the only way to make a donation then so be it thats what i will do.



This is the second time you've talked of doing it... so do it then.


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## pinefamily (Sep 20, 2015)

Chris said:


> You don't think that spending $0.03 per day to support & use the forum is worth it then? Regardless of the sale factor? Wow.
> 
> I started the Adelaide Reptile Forum several years ago & thus know what both a financial & personal cost it takes to set up & maintain a forum, I'm thankful I had many members contributing to its success financially, hence why I'm questioning why people think spending $10.00 annually is not worth it.
> 
> ...



And perhaps you should never have given it up, Chris.


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 20, 2015)

Chris said:


> You don't think that spending $0.03 per day to support & use the forum is worth it then? Regardless of the sale factor? Wow.
> 
> I started the Adelaide Reptile Forum several years ago & thus know what both a financial & personal cost it takes to set up & maintain a forum, I'm thankful I had many members contributing to its success financially, hence why I'm questioning why people think spending $10.00 annually is not worth it.
> 
> ...




Some boards have a way of making a donation to support the board (which is not being a "sponsor" or a "subscriber"). people donate JUST TO HELP and there is no special treatment given to them (other than the gratitude of those who run the board).

People should not be pressured to become subscribers like on some other boards.


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## Stuart (Sep 20, 2015)

Waterrat said:


> I think many of us left because of Slateman's sheer arrogance and incompetence in dealing with people. Unfortunately, the mods were under his thumb but some of them exhibited fair degree of favoritism and power play too. My question is - how is the new management going to deal with posts like "what should be my next snake", "need a name for my snake", "built this new cage, what should I put in it?", "I suppose this is a stupid question ...", etc.. This is what drags this and other forums down, lift the bar and things will improve all around. JMO
> 
> cheers
> Michael



I read this earlier and had to go away and think about because it is a very valid point but also a hard one to setup, police and enforce. To cut out those who ask those questions completely would be to cater to some, of which I'll be the first to admit are some of the most knowledgeable enthusiasts and herpetologists on APS, and could possible end up scaring those who have legitimate questions off. To leave them to continue on though would cause the continuation of those knowledgeable folks not participating on the forums because they didn't want to troll through the unnecessary posts.

These days folks are all too quick to put their hands out and want all the answers handed to them instead of going out and learning for themselves and personally I blame the folks who give them the answers to tests.

There must be a way to cater for both groups of folks and I am open to suggestions on how we deal with it without blitzing all the n00bish questions or letting them continue on. I'll have think about it and see what we can't come up with whilst keeping in mind that the members are what makes the forum, not the fact that its available. 



Tigerlily said:


> Good god have no idea what happened - will type proper response from computer later
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> @Waterrat legit question! Before I buzz off I had to suggest: Forum for newbies? That way the ones who find those posts annoying don't even have to see them



I'll take that thought away with me tonight



kingofnobbys said:


> $10 to become a subscriber and be able to advertise on this board seems very reasonable to me.
> 
> I just hope this place doesn't become like other boards by becoming just a venue for a few sponsors or the owners to drum up business (don't dare upset the sponsors or the largest volume selling subscribers or disagree with the resident "experts").
> 
> ...



I am trying to move the forums away from being as "commercial" as they have been previously and unfortunately the stock vBulletin software does not have any donation functions built in that I am aware of. I do have plans to purchase an add on to allow this but all my funding and whats come in has gone into licensing and getting things back up into support which is why this hasn't eventuated yet. 



kingofnobbys said:


> Some boards have a way of making a donation to support the board (which is not being a "sponsor" or a "subscriber"). people donate JUST TO HELP and there is no special treatment given to them (other than the gratitude of those who run the board).
> 
> People should not be pressured to become subscribers like on some other boards.



I hope people don't feel pressured mate. It is my only option available at the moment and as I mentioned earlier in the thread and whilst I did initially plan to turn it off, it would be unfair to all those who have paid for subscriptions and the like. Vamp made a great suggestion and its something I am seriously looking at.

One of my end goals is to have APS operating as a board for the members, not for profit. 

Stu


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## Wokka (Sep 20, 2015)

I would have thought that those who want to financially assist the site could ask privately for bank details and donate. The world doesn't need to know!!


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 20, 2015)

^^ yes that's one way to do it, would be handy maybe if there was PayPal address so you can keep the banks at arms length and easily and donate if you wanted to help a wee bit.


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## twistedFrog (Sep 20, 2015)

kingofnobbys said:


> ^^ yes that's one way to do it, would be handy maybe if there was PayPal address so you can keep the banks at arms length and easily and donate if you wanted to help a wee bit.


I agree putting a PayPal addy on your profile Stuart, people could donate that way and then only you and the donor would be any the wiser - win/win if you ask me.



> _I think many of us left because of Slateman's sheer arrogance and incompetence in dealing with people. Unfortunately, the mods were under his thumb but some of them exhibited fair degree of favoritism and power play too. My question is - how is the new management going to deal with posts like "what should be my next snake", "need a name for my snake", "built this new cage, what should I put in it?", "I suppose this is a stupid question ...", etc.. This is what drags this and other forums down, lift the bar and things will improve all around. JMO_
> 
> _cheers_
> _Michael_



Well all the noob questions alongside the experienced threads is what makes a community forum just that. A diverse range of knowledge feeding off each other. And for the experienced guys to have to put up with those noob questions well it more likely stands to benefit you eo do so as those noobs end up being the owners of snakes experienced people have bred and you want people to be educated and gain experience to buy your animals and keep them well, right! I mean yeah sure not all experienced keepers are breeding and selling, so for those I say that enjoy the noobs for the benefit of the animals they keep. Is it not best to educate someone to be a good keeper of animals. So let all rest side by side and in the end the beautiful animals will benefit and we all win then animals and humans alike!


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## Waterrat (Sep 20, 2015)

Diamond-python, I wasn't referring to noobs, I was referring to stupid posts such as I mentioned above that may come from anybody, not just noobs. "Help me name my snake" is a stupid request no matter who posted it, wouldn't you agree? Noobs are welcome and will always receive good response from others, .... "the others" won't.

Cheers
Michael


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## twistedFrog (Sep 20, 2015)

Waterrat said:


> Diamond-python, I wasn't referring to noobs, I was referring to stupid posts such as I mentioned above that may come from anybody, not just noobs. "Help me name my snake" is a stupid request no matter who posted it, wouldn't you agree? Noobs are welcome and will always receive good response from others, .... "the others" won't.
> 
> Cheers
> Michael



Yeah Michael I do agree, not trying to ripple anyones pond, but to the person who posts the thread maybe they feel like it's not such a stupid question! So we can all make the choice to click the thread or not. In time they will be educated and may or may not become one of the best contributors on here. They all start somewhere right?


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## vampstorso (Sep 20, 2015)

Stuart said:


> I am trying to move the forums away from being as "commercial" as they have been previously and unfortunately the stock vBulletin software does not have any donation functions built in that I am aware of. I do have plans to purchase an add on to allow this but all my funding and whats come in has gone into licensing and getting things back up into support which is why this hasn't eventuated yet.



Again this is funds related and I am totally naive on costs but I'm sure theyre higher than I think they are,
but forum platforms like Xenforo seem lovely if you're looking for another with more options on it



Thanks for all your hard work and for the funds you've had to fork out; it's a massive task and I hope it repays you tenfold in people making the most of the board at the very least.


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## Darlyn (Sep 20, 2015)

Hi there Ron, hope you are well. Long time since I've visited here.good to see there are some readable threads.


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## CrazyNut (Sep 21, 2015)

[MENTION=27815]Stuart[/MENTION] I was about to suggest the same thing as [MENTION=39720]Tigerlily[/MENTION] and that is we create a new forum specifically for beginners. This would allow for those folks being able to avoid trolling through those unnecessary posts filled with noobish questions.


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## Waterrat (Sep 21, 2015)

CrazyNut said:


> @Stuart I was about to suggest the same thing as @Tigerlily and that is we create a new forum specifically for beginners. This would allow for those folks being able to avoid trolling through those unnecessary posts filled with noobish questions.



Noobish questions are often spot on, intelligent and genuine. But for the life of me, I can't understand why someone needs help with naming their snake or what should be their next snake. One would think that even noobies have some idea what's out there and what tickles their fancy. Choosing the next reptile means commitment for the next 10 years or more and people should be able to make up their own mind what to get, not what someone else (likely another inexperienced noobie) suggests. JMO

cheers
Michael


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## CrazyNut (Sep 21, 2015)

Waterrat said:


> Noobish questions are often spot on, intelligent and genuine. But for the life of me, I can't understand why someone needs help with naming their snake or what should be their next snake. One would think that even noobies have some idea what's out there and what tickles their fancy. Choosing the next reptile means commitment for the next 10 years or more and people should be able to make up their own mind what to get, not what someone else (likely another inexperienced noobie) suggests. JMO
> 
> cheers
> Michael


Well in the case of someone who has only just decided to join the hobby, maybe not. Perhaps this someone is is unsure of what is acceptable for a beginner in terms of ease of care and handleability. Though I too can't understand the naming thing, usually a name for an animals in your care is very personal lol


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## pinefamily (Sep 21, 2015)

CrazyNut said:


> Well in the case of someone who has only just decided to join the hobby, maybe not. Perhaps this someone is is unsure of what is acceptable for a beginner in terms of ease of care and handleability. Though I too can't understand the naming thing, usually a name for an animals in your care is very personal lol


Not disagreeing with you, but asking about ease of care/handleability is a bit different to a blanket "what snake should I get next?" And there used to be quite a few of them before.
I think the ones that used to annoy me the most were the threads asking for advice, and when the OP got advice they didn't like, they would start another thread, or ask elsewhere.
Hey, even the "name my snake" ones didn't annoy me as much!


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## CrazyNut (Sep 21, 2015)

pinefamily said:


> Not disagreeing with you, but asking about ease of care/handleability is a bit different to a blanket "what snake should I get next?" And there used to be quite a few of them before.
> I think the ones that used to annoy me the most were the threads asking for advice, and when the OP got advice they didn't like, they would start another thread, or ask elsewhere.
> Hey, even the "name my snake" ones didn't annoy me as much!


OMG the OP's not likeing what they are told! Thats literally the most annoying and stupid thing lol that was happening on ARF a lot! Though I think ARF shut down now (well I can't access it anyway).


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## Stuart (Sep 21, 2015)

I am reading this all, just had a heck of a day at work follwed by a call out. Ill respond as soon as I can and also start implementing some ideas


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## kingofnobbys (Sep 21, 2015)

Stuart said:


> I am reading this all, just had a heck of a day at work follwed by a call out. Ill respond as soon as I can and also start implementing some ideas


You have my sympathy Stuart , I HATED call-ins , especially the ones I often got from work just after I'd climbed into bed . I hope you get paid for your call-ins , at least a full shift of overtime even if you aren't required for the full shift.

- - - Updated - - -



vampstorso said:


> Again this is funds related and I am totally naive on costs but I'm sure theyre higher than I think they are,
> but forum platforms like Xenforo seem lovely if you're looking for another with more options on it
> 
> 
> ...



Yes there are places on line where you can develop and run messageboards for free , Zeta boards comes to mind, someone still has to do the coding though and look after debugging and running the board (taking care of glitches and gremlins as they pop up) ....


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## ronhalling (Sep 22, 2015)

Darlyn said:


> Hi there Ron, hope you are well. Long time since I've visited here.good to see there are some readable threads.



Hey Darlyn, certainly has been a while since i seen you both here, how did your Aust tour go?? hope you both got to see what you wanted, missed seeing you both when you got to the East coast which was a shame as i had heaps to chat with your hubby about, speaking of him, how is he?? comfortable i hope, I am still trying to come to terms with it but with the help i have i should be ok. Yes we have peeps chatting again which is what i hoped for when i started this thread and we have a heap of the long timers coming back for a look which i could not foresee happening but it is fantastic to see them back, with Stu at the helm i am sure the group will again be the cohesive informative place to sit down with a coffee and start learning again. Great to see you back and hope to see more posts from you both if you get back into collecting again, your posts were always fun and full of great information.   ..............................Ron


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## pinefamily (Sep 22, 2015)

CrazyNut said:


> OMG the OP's not likeing what they are told! Thats literally the most annoying and stupid thing lol that was happening on ARF a lot! Though I think ARF shut down now (well I can't access it anyway).


I remember the "vegetarian lizard" thread on there, lol. I as actually lughing out loud reading that one.


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## Stuart (Sep 22, 2015)

I hear the ideas on new board software or setups and the reason I have shied away from them is that APS has had a lot of customization and it would need to be offline for a good week or more for the database and files to be converted over to the new software. On top of this all the add ons and additional software would need to be repurchased and installed which isn't an option I could consider at the moment unfortunately. 

What I am trying to do is redesign the site to give it a new look but familiar feel so that folks enjoy the site a bit more (I hope anyway)
[MENTION=41275]kingofnobbys[/MENTION], I am lucky enough to get paid well for my call outs and generally its only rarely I get called these days as we have our level 3 guys who will always get the call first. I tend to be next in line when its something more in depth/major..


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## CrazyNut (Sep 22, 2015)

OMGLMFAO! Vegetarian lizard thread(s) was a joke! Was one big idiotic argument. I didn't even bother commenting on, just sat back and laughed..... Some people were arguing about stiff that had nothing to do with the thread and the op wasn't even involved lol. I really hope that kind of stuff doesn't happen on anymore. Its going to be difficulty to move forward if it does sadly.


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## Sdaji (Sep 22, 2015)

Sounds like I missed the fun! Where can I find the vegetarian lizard thread? :lol:


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## pinefamily (Sep 22, 2015)

Sdaji said:


> Sounds like I missed the fun! Where can I find the vegetarian lizard thread? :lol:



Luckily for us it was on another, lesser, forum.


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## RoryBreaker (Sep 22, 2015)

pinefamily said:


> I remember the "vegetarian lizard" thread on there, lol. I as actually lughing out loud reading that one.



It was good fun that thread. Some took it way to seriously though.


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## Wally (Sep 22, 2015)

RoryBreaker said:


> It was good fun that thread. Some took it way to seriously though.



In the words of David Thorne, "the internet is a playground".


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## SteveNT (Oct 6, 2015)

Howdy All. We've been on the road nearly 2 years now! 24,000 brilliant km in Oz and Indonesia. Still kicking despite the 3 month death sentence. Good to see a lot of familiar names here. Obviously with all the travel we no longer have pets (although I just bought another fish tank.) My nasty is back with a vengeance and going through the mess of chemo again is not for me. I'll cop it on the chin and keep stuffing as much LIFE as I can into my ever leakier little swag until the end- next week 3 days on a Houseboat on Coroboree Billabong, two weeks after that we're fishing North West Arnhem Land for a week! Rooftop suite at the Casino booked for New Years fireworks! Keep going until you cant and bow out gracefully. That's the plan. Will stay in touch with the new site, happy about the changes! Talk soon
SteveNT (the picture is titled "how to die of cancer and still enjoy the world!"


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## ronhalling (Oct 6, 2015)

Wow [MENTION=26441]SteveNT[/MENTION].....You have no idea how sad i am to hear the "Nasty" is back, but i am sure with your indomitable spirit you are laughing in it's face and saying "i dare you to come and get me" at the moment i am in a semi remission, just gotta try and get those pesky "T" cells into some sort of order. what happened to your blog??? i was looking forward to living vicariously through you on your magnificent journey, but i imagine that you and Darlyn where having too much fun to worry about damn computers lol. I am glad you are still living the dream and now the forum is owned by someone with a little more than sand in his scrotum i will look forward to seeing you and the lovely Darlyn checking in a bit more frequently and posting a bit more of your journey, you look just too good to be checking out just yet m8.    .......................Ron


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## SteveNT (Oct 6, 2015)

G'day Ron, glad to hear you're still with us mate. The blog was a complete fail- Hostpapa are a fraud just trying to suck more & more money out of you. I switched to Wordpress but we rarely ever had web access in the places we go so I eventually gave up. Most people just follow my Facie page now. Even though we don't keep reptiles now (Darlyn still has the big BHP at a friend's house) we still meet lots of scaly friends along the way. Here's one that popped up at the bush bar at Lorella Springs a few weeks ago while we were having some amber fluids.


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## Porkbones (Oct 6, 2015)

[MENTION=26441]SteveNT[/MENTION] I don't really post on here much, more of an observer these days.i know we have never met but I do remember when u dropped your bad news and plans of travel. I use to follow your thread with great interest. Good to see your still around and having fun!!! Keep making the most of it mate


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## jahan (Oct 6, 2015)

Great to see you on again Steve, Good to see you doing it on your terms mate.


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## SteveNT (Oct 7, 2015)

Anyone wanting to follow our travels/ adventures etc can like my FB page- stevent is my bucket list page


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## Snapped (Oct 7, 2015)

Good to hear youre still enjoying life Steve, and doing it on your terms.


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## kingofnobbys (Oct 7, 2015)

just noticed the new donation button ....  

Hope we all give a little to help keep this wonderful board doing.


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## Dopamel (Nov 9, 2015)

i'm new here but i've been to many forums and from experience i can say alot of the time people just lose interest then return again when interest repeaks....i also know too many people in any field who are touchy when it comes to knowledge, its annoying. I had a fellow herp trash me one time for saying that soaking a mouse in chicken broth works for snakes that wont eat, have no idea why, as it DOES it helped my Ball Python...you should see some of the silly arguments that my fellow zoo keepers have sometimes. Holding freshly knackered kangaroo balls in your bare hand isn't going to kill you, settle down kids


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## brandosmith (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm only a brand new member, so we'll say I arrived post Stu. 

From an outsiders perspective I've found everyone to be very helpful as long as your questions aren't too stupid. 
And I love the combination of new, oldish & built in to the furniture members. 
As someone who jumps into a hobby head first & really likes to research beyond what is needed, I would hate to be banished to a newbies section! although I do understand how frustrating it would be to repeat yourself 11,000 times.
I think the new members section gives us a chance to describe what level we are & then members can either decide to offer help or ignore our posts. 

Coming from the rat forum a few years ago when everyone I know left... this forum thus far hasn't exhibited as much anger & arguing as that did. But of course, every gathering of people online has that. 

I follow a lot of groups on facebook, but I prefer a forum so that I don't lose posts or forget where to find things, you also get to peek inside groups or conversations unrelated to your main interests that help you further knowledge. 
And I find that you get more serious or less sensationalized replies on a forum. 

Anyway, Stu's doing well as far as I can tell & people like Pineyfamily, Cement & Ronhalling have been so informative that I consider my short time here a big win. 


Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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