# exotic reptiles



## chappo89 (Oct 11, 2015)

Will we ever be able to keep exotic reptiles in Australia? Is there hope or is it something that will never happen? A lot of other exotic animals are allowed to be imported into Australia, as long as quarantine regulations are followed, for example cats can be imported, they are devastating to the environment and a real problem here in oz but are allowed, so why not reptiles? What are people's thoughts on this?


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## CrazyNut (Oct 11, 2015)

Well there was an article which orovided plenty of informatin and evidence that reptiles can be imported etc withpit causing problems and I dare say the goverment would have revived letters and emails etc over the years. ATM its pretty unlikely however I could happen but probably not for another 10 or so years.


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## Trewin (Oct 12, 2015)

I really hope not, we don't need more problems arising form invasive species.


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## Newts (Oct 12, 2015)

Personally, I feel it's a case of why be greedy? We already have a huge amount of incredibly diverse and unique native reptiles, (many of which are highly valued and rare overseas). Why even risk threatening that for the sake of being able to keep more species? I also think it should be looked at this way; it's bad enough that we do have cats, lets do our best to not make it worse.


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## Waterrat (Oct 12, 2015)

It's the collector's mentality - they want everything and more of it, instead of LEARNING more about what they already have. Not just what it eats, how it breeds and how it behaves in a cage. There is much more to reptiles than that and there is plenty of information all around. JMO

Michael


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## chappo89 (Oct 12, 2015)

Thx for replying guys, heres my bit, i don't think it will ever be allowed which is probably for the best but exotic reptiles are already being kept/bred illegally in Australia, it's something that's happening whether we like it or not, wouldn't it be better to have it legal so it can at least be regulated, personally I wish we had zero invasive species in Australia but that's never going to be a reality with Asian geckos, rabbits, rats, cats, cane toads and don't get me started on the invasive fish species.
FYI I'm not a collector I just like some exotic species such as chameleons, ball pythons and tokay geckos, I don't think of reptiles like pokemon, "gotta catch em all" lol but in my 12 years experience keeping various native reptiles I do want to care for something different.


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## Waterrat (Oct 12, 2015)

How about , Boyd's forest dragon, Green python and Chameleon gecko instead?


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## RoryBreaker (Oct 12, 2015)

With the rise in the power of animal welfare groups,( PETA, Animals Australia, RSPCA etc..), in the future we reptile keepers will be flat out holding onto what we are currently allowed to keep rather than adding more to the list. ie. non-native herps.

Also, reptile keepers are an easy target while we don't have a nationally recognised association which can consult on our own behalf.


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## BredliFreak (Oct 12, 2015)

I would agree with RoryBreaker. I like the idea of making a national association, like USARK etc. If you are looking for different things, I know that some people are trying to add more natives to the list, including Torres Strait island animals and I think some people are pushing for NG, Christmas Island animals and others to be allowed. Maybe if you are in NSW you could try a white-lipped python, cuz for now that's about as close as you can get.

Bredli


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## Herpo (Oct 12, 2015)

I honestly don't want foreign reptiles in Australia. We have amazing enough animals native to here, and I'm perfectly happy with them.

Also, many foreign animals have caused problems here. Most well known is Cane Toads, who are now responsible for the deaths of many native animals. And while I love cats and have owned one all my life, when left roam around as the wish, most specifically on farms or in the bush, they can be major problems. They are then hunted, an unfortunate consequence for acting as their natural instincts tell them. We would be harming our own native animals and the foreign animals by owning them in Australia.

Anyway, those are my two cents.


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## CrazyNut (Oct 12, 2015)

If you look at all those causing problems, they were introduced with the help of humans and were realeased in very large numbers, personally I don't think there would be a problem with brining in exotics, esspecailly those which require very pacific conditions. Btw I don't count AHG's as being invasive pest, yeh there is loads of them but I'm yet to see one article or pice of evidence to suggest they are bad for our wildlife. Nevertheless I'm, like most, and quite happy with what we got (and I'm in vic where you can keep 99% of nothing lol). I also agree with RoryBreaker. I would love to see a national organisation filled with KNOWLEDGEABLE people (not no it all government official) to speak on the behalf of those involved in keeping and studying (including photography) Australian wildlife something like the National Australian Wildlife Recreational Party (NAWRP)....


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## BredliFreak (Oct 12, 2015)

How about making an organisation called AFROA (Australian Frog & Reptile Owners Association), which could have a say with licensing (with approval of all the officials and whatnot), do herping things, create functions and represent all reptile and amphibian keepers in Aus, so we can fight the people who wish to take away our herps. 

If we could control exotics, with super strict regulations (though I doubt it since we can't control our introduced ones) and high tier licensing then maybe? But if you can't wait for forever then I suppose you could own them illegally. Otherwise get a zoo 
[MENTION=40362]CrazyNut[/MENTION] AHG's are more good than harm, since they are good feeders (at least in QLD where it's legal) and they eat mozzies. Also, you think you can't keep much try the ACT lol it's pretty strict there 

Bredli


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## Newts (Oct 12, 2015)

There is some evidence out there that the Asian House Gecko is having a negative impact in Australia, CrazyNut. It's been shown that AHGs at the very least have the capacity to outcompete and displace native house geckos (eg dubious dtella, zigzag velvet gecko, robust velvet gecko) as they are more efficient hunters, can tolerate much higher levels of artificial lighting than native species, and are aggressive to other geckos. Whether AHGs are spreading into natural habitat is controversial, but what is known is that they are increasing their range. It's unknown what effect they will have on the native species in areas where they have yet to spread. There is also some concern about the introduced parasites they carry (eg. red gecko mite) and if these could transfer to native species. I can cite you some papers if you'd like; admittedly there is no absolutely clear or urgent concern for AHGs in Australia, yet.


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## CrazyNut (Oct 12, 2015)

Newts said:


> There is some evidence out there that the Asian House Gecko is having a negative impact in Australia, CrazyNut. It's been shown that AHGs at the very least have the capacity to outcompete and displace native house geckos (eg dubious dtella, zigzag velvet gecko, robust velvet gecko) as they are more efficient hunters, can tolerate much higher levels of artificial lighting than native species, and are aggressive to other geckos. Whether AHGs are spreading into natural habitat is controversial, but what is known is that they are increasing their range. It's unknown what effect they will have on the native species in areas where they have yet to spread. There is also some concern about the introduced parasites they carry (eg. red gecko mite) and if these could transfer to native species. I can cite you some papers if you'd like; admittedly there is no absolutely clear or urgent concern for AHGs in Australia, yet.


I was reading a paper not so long ago that had said that they do not outcompete natives, especially since most natives (according to the paper/article) live in the bush and the AHG's have thus far been pretty much restricted to suburban areas. Which makes sense, they don't need to go into the bush due to the amount if insects the lights from buildings etc generate.. I would love some papers thank you (always ready to read the latest papers haha). As for the red gecko mite thing, I haven't a clue, never heard of it lol (a paper would be nice  )


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## Dopamel (Oct 31, 2015)

as an american i can understand not allowing private keeping of very large snakes given the crisis in the Florida/Louisiana wetlands....but i was really upset when i found out i couldn't bring my beloved Ball Python with me...they really are the most gentle snakes i've ever worked with, best beginner snake PERIOD, easy to handle and take care of. Cant think of any other snakes or lizards i'd be okay with letting be pets here, perhaps Rose Kneed Tarantulas for their calmness as well?


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## Herpo (Oct 31, 2015)

Australian T's are good to. Whether a spider is calm or not really doesn't matter, as they aren't meant to be handled anyway. And while I understand your disappointment to not be able to bring a beloved pet to Aus, when you move to a country, you adapt to it's laws, and respect, them, not try to impose your own.

As for [MENTION=41958]Dopamel[/MENTION] saying that BP's are the best beginner snake, we will never get a definitive answer to that. Everyone will have a different opinion. Personally, I say carpet pythons, because people in Aus can own them, as can the UK and the States.

People can think what they want about Australia's importation laws, but I stand by them and am thankful of their existence.


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## ronhalling (Nov 1, 2015)

[MENTION=41642]Herpo[/MENTION], at the tender age of 13 you seem to have a very level headed approach to the subject of "exotics" in Australia, i hope you are an example of the youth coming up in our hobby, if you are then i reckon the future is going to be in good hands, i too feel thankful that we have the laws in place we do, AAA+++.  ........................Ron


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## Nero Egernia (Nov 1, 2015)

Personally, I wouldn't worry, or even think of keeping exotics (even though there are some very beautiful species out there). I'm too busy pining for so many beautiful Australian species that I can't and probably never will be able to keep. :cry:


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## Herpo (Nov 1, 2015)

ronhalling said:


> @Herpo, at the tender age of 13 you seem to have a very level headed approach to the subject of "exotics" in Australia, i hope you are an example of the youth coming up in our hobby, if you are then i reckon the future is going to be in good hands, i too feel thankful that we have the laws in place we do, AAA+++.  ........................Ron


Thank you Ron! i guess I've picked up my parents opinions. Especially my mums, who believes strongly that you adapt to a country's laws when you go there. When we came to Aus, Dad could speak English, and being 3 when we came, I picked it up easily. But Mum, had to learn a language all over again, so her opinions come from there.

Besides, I'm too busy pondering the school systems "white socks" law to focus on anything else.


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## GBWhite (Nov 1, 2015)

There are reasons why Australia takes biosecurity so seriously.

Some of the main concerns with allowing legal importation of exotic reptiles include;

Competition with native species; 
Introduction of infectious diseases that can have a negative impact on not just reptiles but other native species and humans;
Hybridization between exotic species and endemic Australian species that are closely related;
Disruption to ecosystems and trophic dynamics;
Negative economical and social impacts.

Here's some links to articles that may be of interest, re - Red-eared Slider Turtles as an invasive species, Risk Assessment regarding introduction of exotic reptiles and amphibians into Australia and Trade involving exotic animals in Australia 

http://invasives.org.au/files/2014/09/Biosecurity-failures-red-eared-slider-turtles.pdf

http://www.pestsmart.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/RepAmphRisk.pdf

https://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/wildlife-trade/exotics

Cheers,

George.


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## BredliFreak (Nov 1, 2015)

Those sliders are serious **** guys. From what I've read, they have destroyed Asia but luckily we can prevent them as they aren't established yet. As for the other species, we're pretty much doomed but hey, captivity could save the endangered species via breeding programs e.g If we got some N. sheai (I'm pretty sure they aren't endangered yet), and they almost went extinct from cane toads, people could breed them, because we can't have "cooler" exotics and so we could easily repopulate the area, whereas if we kept exotics everyone would be factory producing leopard geckos in sweatshops and no-one would care about the poor sheai.

Just an example, as much as I like exotics (I WILL make a zoo, just you wait), our natives are cooler and it is probably for the better in many ways.

Bredli

Ron I'm twelve where is my A+++++ (not kidding about the twelve part) lol


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## Bluetongue1 (Nov 2, 2015)

GBWhite said:


> Here's some links to articles that may be of interest...
> http://invasives.org.au/files/2014/09/Biosecurity-failures-red-eared-slider-turtles.pdf
> 
> http://www.pestsmart.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/RepAmphRisk.pdf
> ...


Some excellent links provided there George. They give people a true insight into what is actually happening, rather than just what they imagine happens. Good stuff!


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