# For money or love



## Freeloader (Jul 3, 2014)

How many eggs do the knob tail gecko breeders on this forum let their females have in their first season?
I have just read that a guy let his 1yo female occy have 24 eggs in it's first breeding season and is expecting better results in this upcoming season. Now he is trying to sell it way over priced and I would be put off buying it knowing that it had been bred to kingdom come in it's first season.
Do you think he owns it for love or money?


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## Vixen (Jul 3, 2014)

I didn't even know it was possible for a female to produce that many eggs in one season.

The most i've ever let my Pilby female produce is 4 eggs in one year, and she is a big healthy girl. I let them mate for a few weeks, then seperate - she doubled clutched from the one spout of mating though.


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## kitten_pheonix (Jul 3, 2014)

That 12 clutches, approximately 25-30 days apart. He has started breeding her way too early in the season and cooled far too late. 
Some females do drop clutches with a smaller gap between them. 
But that is over working them. 
Some of our girls had 8 but the last was due to the longer high temps this autumn, most stopped on time though.

alot of people are getting into geckos for $ at the moment wanting cheap breeding animals to sell the hatchies at premium prices. 

Then are left scratching there head at why they cant make money.


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## NickGeee (Jul 3, 2014)

Most of the babies died too from what I heard

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This is what also ****** me off, ITS A HOBBY, NOT A BUISNESS! 
I think that bloke tried to make $500 off the pair, but browsing gumtree it appears no ones made an offer yet. 
Everything's over expensive, and pretty much everyone these days is keeping the good selling knob tails over the rare diplos that were once semi common in the hobby but no one keeps anymore.


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## Freeloader (Jul 3, 2014)

What amazes me is he is hoping for more than 24 eggs this season and he is happy to publicize the fact. No care for the female geckos well being. Definitely a business to this guy.


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## Pauls_Pythons (Jul 3, 2014)

1. Is it anyones business if this guy is out to make a dollar? I think not.
There are plenty of people sell animals for more than others think is reasonable but that doesn't make them a criminal, it may make the buyer gullable at best.
If this person is in it for the money then good luck to him. I'm sure many others have tried over the years and realised there isn't much money to be made from breeding reptiles unless there is a huge market to buy.

2. The most important thing I read into the initial post is concern for the welfare of the animal. Is the breeder doing anything illegal? Can these animals breed at such a young age in the wild and deliver multiple clutches? If the answer is yes then he is doing nothing wrong. (I'm not a gecko expert so I really have no idea).


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## Freeloader (Jul 3, 2014)

Mate if I was you I would just go with the last line of your post.


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## butters (Jul 3, 2014)

If the female wasn't conditioned well enough it wouldn't lay that many eggs. Simple as that, so even though there are plenty of people bagging the guy he is obviously looking after it in other respects. Have you seen the condition of the animal? Does it look in poor condition?
What makes you think that in the wild, in a good season, an animal wouldn't lay that many?
None of my levis have ever produced 12 clutches in a season. From memory 8 clutches is the most but some of my thick tails lay that many clutches in a season. I give no night time heat from April until end of August but some of my thick tails are gravid now with no night heating. They always seem to start first. It's been into the single figures at night lately but that hasn't made a difference.

It's definitely a hobby to me not a business so money isn't important. Most I sell hatchies for is $50 so I'm not in it for the dollar. I swap or give away more than I sell. If they breed that much I let them. If they don't it doesn't worry me. 

$500 for a breeding pair of occidentalis doesn't seem over the top to me. I've seen plenty of hatchies offered for $150-200 so to me that's not excessive. Depends on the animals in question I guess. If they were nice animals I would pay that and have in the past.

i also keep some of the rare diplos so I guess I'm not like everyone.


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## Radar (Jul 3, 2014)

Well...
I've had female knobtails of various species (levis, asper etc) produce 8-10 clutches a season, all from a single mating. This is at ambient room temps (in nth QLD). Others in the same seasons have only produced 3 clutches, same amount of feed etc. Last season I had a schraderi female at two years old put out 7 clutches for her first breeding season, I literally cut her food out for a week to stop her laying then put her back on reduced rations. It's at the point where I don't think I'll put anything together this coming season because I don't want to have to deal with all the offspring getting them established. Many go to mates for free or new people to the hobby for not much, I certainly don't re-coupe my cricket bill (in the thousands every year) by their sales. Some females just want to go hard for some reason. Sometimes it's forced on them, but some have to be stopped by the keeper....


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## Freeloader (Jul 3, 2014)

Butters I think you will find that the price you quoted for a pair is just for the female.


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## butters (Jul 3, 2014)

NickGeee said:


> Most of the babies died too from what I heard
> 
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> 
> ...



I only commented on what you had posted. Haven't seen the ad. Your post suggests to me $500 a pair so maybe edit your post to show that.
Even so I wouldn't be surprised if some high coloured, sought after genetics would go for that or more. It would cost at least that to get a legally wild caught individual to the eastern states. If it was such a specimen the price would be warranted.

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Actually sorry freeloader nick gee posted that not you but it's still the same.


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## NickGeee (Jul 3, 2014)

butters said:


> I only commented on what you had posted. Haven't seen the ad. Your post suggests to me $500 a pair so maybe edit your post to show that.
> Even so I wouldn't be surprised if some high coloured, sought after genetics would go for that or more. It would cost at least that to get a legally wild caught individual to the eastern states. If it was such a specimen the price would be warranted.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


Sorry yeh my bad he was once selling them for $500 but I think he's selling the female now for 500 as freeloader said and the male for 250.
The male looks nice but no female pictures are shown.


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## junglepython2 (Jul 3, 2014)

I had a first year levis produce something similar to that when I first started breeding geckos. As Butters said it wouldn't do this unless it was in pristine condition. It isn't always so easy to switch them off and end of the day as long as the animal is healthy who cares how many clutches he gets out of her.

As for the price it is his animal and he has every right to put whatever price he thinks is reasonable on it.


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