# America's Animal Hoarders: Horror At The Zoo



## Jacknife (Feb 27, 2013)

I just watched this on ABC2 and I have to say its the saddest documentary i've seen in a long time.
When will America learn that laws need to be in place when it comes to keeping exotic pets. Because at the end of the day its the animals that suffer and pay the ultimate price for mans actions, as this documentary so tragically proves.

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## buffcoat (Feb 28, 2013)

Badsville said:


> I just watched this on ABC2 and I have to say its the saddest documentary i've seen in a long time.
> When will America learn that laws need to be in place when it comes to keeping exotic pets. Because at the end of the day its the animals that suffer and pay the ultimate price for mans actions, as this documentary so tragically proves.
> 
> VideoWeed - Get high on VideoWeed | Flash Video Hosting



Haven't you figured out by now that the media and groups like PETA will do anything in their power to make "us" look bad? Not all of "us" are bad keepers. I've posted before that my "exotics" eat better than me. 

Now, do I think everyone should be able to have lions and tigers as pets? Short answer, no. Should there be a license system to own those animals, yes. 

Quite frankly people here in the good ok US of A are getting fed up with our government stepping in. We do have freedoms, that's why we fought the Revolutionary War. I understand that not everywhere in the world has those freedoms but you can't expect us to be happy about them regulating everything. Give something to someone for 250+ years and then just take it away...it won't be pretty. 

All I'm asking is that you understand there are 2 sides and not all of us "yanks" are bad and horrible keepers. 

I don't mean to sound crass in any way. And if I do, I'm apologizing right now. 

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## KristianG (Feb 28, 2013)

I think he does understand that and that introducing new laws and restrictions is essential If you want this to stop happening. If anyone can jut go out and buy a Burmese python and once he gets bored of it just releases it or stop feeding it of course this will happen. But with simple laws and regulations only passionate animal keepers go through all the rigmarole.


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## buffcoat (Feb 28, 2013)

KristianG said:


> I think he does understand that and that introducing new laws and restrictions is essential If you want this to stop happening. If anyone can jut go out and buy a Burmese python and once he gets bored of it just releases it or stop feeding it of course this will happen. But with simple laws and regulations only passionate animal keepers go through all the rigmarole.



There does need to be some kind of regulations in place to own bears and lions and zebras, things of that nature. The problem in the everglades was not caused because 500 burm and a-rock owners let them go, it was because of mother nature. 

How "tight" are your laws? Do you have wardens and officials just knock on your door and ask to inspect your home, even if you aren't a keeper? How many posts have been on this board the last month saying there are corn snakes for sale yadda yadda?

Like I said earlier, people here in the states are getting fed up with all these damn knee jerk reactions from our government. They are politicians, they only care about the all mighty dollar. What's in it for me mentality. Remove one from office, 2 pop up that are just as bad. Government reform is what's needed here, not more ridiculous laws about keeping pets. And just to clarify, I personally do not think a lion is a pet. Here kitty kitty.

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## jacorin (Feb 28, 2013)

its alright buff,we get the same kneejerk reaction from our pollies as well...and dont worry bout the views of some ppl......they've got it better than you in some regards and think they are the voice of everybody


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## Jeannine (Feb 28, 2013)

PETA is a joke considering their 'kill ratio' is as bad if not worse then other organisations supposedly 'saving animals' 

PETA is full of liars and idiots who twist everything around to suit themselves and get attention....you know that old saying 'negative attention is better then none' and im guessing the supposed 'intelligent' celebrities that support it are in desperate need of free publicity because i cant believe intelligent people could be fooled but they have in the past so anything is possible


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## Wing_Nut (Feb 28, 2013)

Political heads are not your problem, it's the advisors that you never see, who never change with an election that pull the strings. The sad part about the democratic government we live with is that the policies are bought and paid for long before we ever hear about them. The power brokers control the politicians, and if you want things to change the only way is to have people who support your views in authoritive positions. That's where a lot of raised funds and donations end up, to buy publicity and power to grease the wheels of change. Politicians really don't change anything, they are just figureheads.

Regards

Wing_Nut


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## jacorin (Feb 28, 2013)

thats true wing......its the beaurocrates behind the scenes that actually run things......just watch an episode of YES MINISTER(a pommy show) it shows just how a democratic government works


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## Burnerism (Feb 28, 2013)

Ain't nothing wrong with wanting to keep a lion or bear just like there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep snakes and monitors. All have the potentional to be dangerous. It's the keeper or lack of "keeping" that's the problem. Just like alcohol has the potentional to be dangerous. It depends on the individual. All should be regulated and the action of some should not dictate for the rest of us.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

buffcoat said:


> Haven't you figured out by now that the media and groups like PETA will do anything in their power to make "us" look bad? Not all of "us" are bad keepers. I've posted before that my "exotics" eat better than me.
> 
> Now, do I think everyone should be able to have lions and tigers as pets? Short answer, no. Should there be a license system to own those animals, yes.
> 
> ...




Did you even watch the documentary!?

It's about what happened when ONE man, ONE individual who had a grudge against his local council and committed suicide when his wife left him. That was the straw that broke the camels back in a long list of other issues that led to the suicide, but it's what he did immediately before he killed himself that is the tragedy.

He was the owner of over 50 exotic animals including lions, tigers, black bears, brown bears, jaguars, leopards and baboons.
Before he committed suicide he opened the gates to ALL his enclosures and cut holes in the fences so the animals couldn't be re-secured. 
It was in a small town where his property backed onto the interstate highway and he was less than 2 miles from the centre of town and schools.

The story is about the tragedy of the police department having no choice but to put down all the animals that had escaped and WERE AN IMMEDIATE THREAT to the entire town. It was the last resort and they had no choice.
The awful, tearful testimony of the officers recounting having to kill these majestic creatures is something I will never forget. And something they will never forget because of ONE reckless persons selfish actions.

This happened in Zanesville, Ohio. One of seven US states that has almost ZERO laws when it comes to the keeping of exotic animals.

My point was that if US states had correct, informed and fair laws and legislations that this tragedy never would have happened as the animals could never have been put in that situation.

In the end they had to kill 6 black bears, 2 brown bears, 9 African lionesses, 8 male African lions and 18 tigers. They had no choice.
As one officer stated amid tears; "That day we killed the equivalent of 1% of India's wild tiger population."

It was NOT a PETA documentary, it was not funded by an animal welfare group, it was simply a documentary.

Tell me this is fine. Tell me your rights and liberties are being crushed by bringing in legislation to prevent incidences like this. I dare you.


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## Wally (Feb 28, 2013)

Badsville said:


> This happened in Zanesville, Ohio. One of seven US states that has almost ZERO laws when it comes to the keeping of exotic animals.
> 
> My point was that if US states had correct, informed and fair laws and legislations that this tragedy never would have happened as the animals could never have been put in that situation.



There was a time when Australia wasn't much different. Perhaps you're too young to remember.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

Wally76 said:


> There was a time when Australia wasn't much different. Perhaps you're too young to remember.



While it was ten years before I was born that the Wildlife Act was instated, and as such I only know living with them, I still think that they are in place and are fair, just and protect us as a nation from things like this ever happening. Something the US can't say.


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## Wally (Feb 28, 2013)

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find an ample amount of wildlife problems in this country to keep you busy.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

Wally76 said:


> I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find an ample amount of wildlife problems in this country to keep you busy.



Oh I completely agree. However, dozens of lions, tigers and bears on the loose due to a mentally unstable owner is not one of them.


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## bk201 (Feb 28, 2013)

get over it?
I'm from Mt druitt, We have plenty of mentally unstable people who have pit bulls, pig hunting dogs and giant mastiffs on the loose all the time and they could give those pet lions a run for there money and i don't see them on the news... one incident with a few lions is nothing


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## saintanger (Feb 28, 2013)

it was a very sad day, especially not being able to save those tigers, all because of 1 human beings actions. i think they did what they could at the time. but having been there and seen his animals and what he is like they should have kept tranquilizer guns ready to go incase anything like this every happened, or just incase 1 escaped it would come in handy. 

i watched that documentry last night and it hurt seeing so many beautiful majestic animals die because the law did not protect them, their owner did not do the right thing by them and no one was prepared. if a state is gonna allow these type of animals to be kept as pets they need to issue every police station and sheriffs office with tranquilizer guns so in situations were they can safely tranqilize them they can save that animal. i agree some of those animals had to be killed as they were a threat to humans but some could have been saved like the ones that were still on his property loose.


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## Wally (Feb 28, 2013)

Badsville said:


> Oh I completely agree. However, dozens of lions, tigers and bears on the loose due to a mentally unstable owner is not one of them.



Have a winge, I'm sure you'll feel better.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

Wally76 said:


> Have a winge, I'm sure you'll feel better.



Oh I feel fantastic! 

My whole point was it's a sad documentary and a tragedy that could only happen in America.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

saintanger said:


> it was a very sad day, especially not being able to save those tigers, all because of 1 human beings actions. i think they did what they could at the time. but having been there and seen his animals and what he is like they should have kept tranquilizer guns ready to go incase anything like this every happened, or just incase 1 escaped it would come in handy.
> 
> i watched that documentry last night and it hurt seeing so many beautiful majestic animals die because the law did not protect them, their owner did not do the right thing by them and no one was prepared. if a state is gonna allow these type of animals to be kept as pets they need to issue every police station and sheriffs office with tranquilizer guns so in situations were they can safely tranqilize them they can save that animal. i agree some of those animals had to be killed as they were a threat to humans but some could have been saved like the ones that were still on his property loose.



Thank you! Someone who gets it.
They had to kill the ones on the property as there was no way of containing them at all unfortunately. The one tiger they did try to tranq. charged the zookeeper and had to be put down sadly.


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## saintanger (Feb 28, 2013)

yes very sad, but if they had been trained for this situation it could have ended a bit better. a 4x4 and a few blokes with tranquilizers could have accessed the property and saved most of them. 

but insted they hassled him about how he kept them, no laws were in place to make him put secure locks on inclosures (which would not have helped as he used bolt cutters to cut the wire). and knowing he was unstable, that his missus left and that he just got out of jail. they still did not prepare incase it got out of hand. they had to have thought what will we do if any of his animals ever escape, just shoot it would have been the answer. also there was a baboon that got out to and it was killed.

it all came down to:

laws not being placed to protect these animals
the owner going nuts
and law enforcement knowing the situation and not coming up with a safety plan 

i hope they learnt from this.


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## crocodile_dan (Feb 28, 2013)

A domestic dog breed (ANY BREED) is incomparable to any big cat.

"a tragedy that could only happen in America" this statement is completely inaccurate there are a multitude of nations that allow private ownership of big cats as well as other "exotic" wildlife.


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## hilly (Feb 28, 2013)

.


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## Jacknife (Feb 28, 2013)

saintanger said:


> yes very sad, but if they had been trained for this situation it could have ended a bit better. *a 4x4 and a few blokes with tranquilizers could have accessed the property and saved most of them.
> *(_this - as they explained was not possible as there were too many animals loose, posing too much of a danger to perform this, and not enough of a supply of tranquiliser_)
> 
> but insted they hassled him about how he kept them, no laws were in place to make him put secure locks on inclosures (which would not have helped as he used bolt cutters to cut the wire). and knowing he was unstable, that his missus left and that he just got out of jail. they still did not prepare incase it got out of hand. they had to have thought what will we do if any of his animals ever escape, just shoot it would have been the answer. also there was a baboon that got out to and it was killed.
> ...



Exactly my point. remember too this was a small rural town of less than 800 people, law enforcement not being prepared does have some mitigating circumstances to it...

The other thing with the tranqs was, as explained they can take up to ten minutes to work and on bears and tigers they are the most unpredictable when it comes to tranq qorking on them and what the animals can still do before the tranq takes effect.
The nearest zoo was over an hour away, wasn't large and only employed seven staff...



crocodile_dan said:


> A domestic dog breed (ANY BREED) is incomparable to any big cat.
> 
> "a tragedy that could only happen in America" this statement is completely inaccurate there are a multitude of nations that allow private ownership of big cats as well as other "exotic" wildlife.



True, but i'm talking about modern western nations, and most other countries have SOME form of law to protect the animals and humans alike.


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## saintanger (Feb 28, 2013)

@ hilly i did watch it if you had read my previous posts you'd know, and i agree the animals off site had to be shot as it was dangerous to the public. but if they had a safety plan and tranquilers at the sheriffs it would have been different. as the zoo was 1 hour away and by the time she got there, there was only 1 animal she could try to save and they went of foot to tranquilize a tiger something she had never done.


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## hilly (Feb 28, 2013)

I did read your post, Cops having tranquilizers won't change the fact that it takes 10-15 minutes for it to take effect and then you'll have people who have no idea of the correct dosages or how the animals will react. It only makes the situation more dangerous.


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## Bluetonguesblack (Feb 28, 2013)

I watched it in full and it`s quite sad that all of those animals lost their lives because of some nutter.


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## disintegratus (Feb 28, 2013)

It is a sad situation, however I don't think that ALL the animal keepers in the country should be penalised because of the actions of one unstable individual, just as I don't believe all dogs of a particular breed should be penalised because of the actions of a few badly bred/badly cared for individuals. 
It is nothing but a damn shame that it had to happen the way it did, but unfortunately in order to preserve human life, sometimes these things need to be done (not that I think that most human life is worth preserving, but that's not the point here.)

Even more unfortunately, this kind of freak incident is exactly the thing that the pollies love, because it does enable them to make knee-jerk reactionary laws, so they are seen as "doing something". Unfortunately for the rest of us, that "something" is only having a negative effect on their freedoms and their ability to keep their pets responsibly.
That said, I do think that some restrictions are necessary, I don't believe that Lions and other examples of large animals (or other animals that have ridiculous requirements) should be able to be kept by private keepers unless they can prove that they have adequate facilities/knowledge to keep them, and that is simply because it is not fair on the animal. You can't in all fairness keep a bear or a lion in a cage and expect it to thrive.


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## saintanger (Feb 28, 2013)

hilly said:


> I did read your post, Cops having tranquilizers won't change the fact that it takes 10-15 minutes for it to take effect and then you'll have people who have no idea of the correct dosages or how the animals will react. It only makes the situation more dangerous.



if they had be trained and had a safety plan for wen somethink like this happened, or if even 1 animal got out by accident they would know what does to use and how the animal would re-act. and to not go on foot but shoot from a 4x4 from a safe distance.

and 10-15 minutes does not apply to all animals, it was the tigers and bears that were more of a concern.


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## hilly (Feb 28, 2013)

Yeah that's right, the lions are completely different, they would be out cold instantly. You should volunteer your services as a consultant to the police and the nearby zoos, you've got all the answers.


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## saintanger (Feb 28, 2013)

lol, i never said they would be out cold instantly. we don't have this type of problem here as we can'y keep exotic animals as pets so they don't need help. also i don't have all the answers, i have my own opinion on how they could have dealt with this better.

if your gonna allow people to own dangerous exotic pets then make sure law enforcment is trained and equiped to deal with this.


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## montysrainbow (Feb 28, 2013)

All i will add is that i watched it too and it was sooooo interesting! sad but interesting story. that is all


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## hilly (Feb 28, 2013)

Actually we can keep exotic pets here, under the appropriate licenses. There's a facility that house big cats 11km from my house. And as a former member of an emergency service I can assure you there's no training for escaped animals.


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## buffcoat (Mar 1, 2013)

Badsville said:


> Did you even watch the documentary!?
> 
> It's about what happened when ONE man, ONE individual who had a grudge against his local council and committed suicide when his wife left him. That was the straw that broke the camels back in a long list of other issues that led to the suicide, but it's what he did immediately before he killed himself that is the tragedy.
> 
> ...



That's what started this whole OMG the skyzorz is fahleeing. Zanesville Ohio, 50 miles from where I live. I know all about it. And like I said, knee jerk reactions. It was horrible what happened there. Horrible. I've never EVER once said it was fine...never. I've said that there should be regs on owning those exotics. Lions, tigers, bears those things absolutely. I agree 100%. I've said that time and time again. I might even be ok if they would add monitors over 2' or something.

Oh, I just watched a documentary on how if it were not for beer, the world would be totally different. It was a real honest to goodness documentary. No spins or plays on words or even twisting the truth. You should watch it.

Oh and I also watched a TV show with a guy who has many lions, tigers, jaguars and several other big cats on his property. He also has a vet on hand to look after them. They need to tranq the animals to get them to the vet table, sometimes it takes two shots from the gun. 

If I'm not mistaken "we" were told there was nothing that could be done these animals had to be killed. 

One says they do, one says says they don't. People were scared. 

I'm not knocking you or trying in any way to discredit the doco. Not in a million years. What I am saying is, here like other places, the powers at be decide to get involved and go from one extreme to the other. 




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## Jacknife (Mar 1, 2013)

hilly said:


> Actually we can keep exotic pets here, under the appropriate licenses. There's a facility that house big cats 11km from my house. And as a former member of an emergency service I can assure you there's no training for escaped animals.



Exactly my point, there is no licensing, pre-training requisites or regulations on owning these animals whatsoever in many US states, which is what leads to these types of incidents.



buffcoat said:


> That's what started this whole OMG the skyzorz is fahleeing. Zanesville Ohio, 50 miles from where I live. I know all about it. And like I said, knee jerk reactions. It was horrible what happened there. Horrible. I've never EVER once said it was fine...never. I've said that there should be regs on owning those exotics. Lions, tigers, bears those things absolutely. I agree 100%. I've said that time and time again. I might even be ok if they would add monitors over 2' or something.
> 
> Oh, I just watched a documentary on how if it were not for beer, the world would be totally different. It was a real honest to goodness documentary. No spins or plays on words or even twisting the truth. You should watch it.
> 
> ...



Agreed, you don't need knee jerk, sudden blanket policies on this. What the US does need is well planned, informed, and realistic legislations drafted. And those types of things take years to draw up, but thats how it should be to be fair for the liberties of humans and animals alike.
Unfortunately I can't see this happening any time soon.

Look up how long it took for our own Wildlife Act of 1974 to be drafted, over 2 years.


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## Shotta (Mar 1, 2013)

wow that was interesting lol VideoWeed - Get high on VideoWeed | Flash Video Hosting
aha they couldnt get a funnier link name lol


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