# What amnesty?



## peterescue (Apr 23, 2004)

Just got a call, seems Im the last to know. Today one of our people picked up an albino snake. Around 1.5m. Has tellowish oval markings down its back to 3 bands on the tail. Haven't seen it yet. Any ideas he hasnt had a good look at it as he whipped it out from behind a hot water heater with not much room to spare and it alsmost tagged him. The bag stands up if he touches it.
Peter
ps. its well and truly in the system so if it disappears heads will do the proverbial


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## stockeh (Apr 23, 2004)

sounds a little like an albino kingsnake.... but if thats the case he is a long long way from home


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## peterescue (Apr 23, 2004)

Doonside in Sydney.


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## Ramsayi (Apr 23, 2004)

The latest on the shamnesty in nsw is 3 corns and 2 red eared sliders


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## Springherp (Apr 23, 2004)

Ramsayi, i'm guessing you were at the Australian herp meeting tonight aswell?


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## porphyriacus01 (Apr 23, 2004)

could be an eastern brown the part with bag standing up S  :wink: but then again if it was textilis then it prolly would have tagged him


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## peterescue (Apr 24, 2004)

Tagged Him, Doubt it. He picks up quite a few browns out that way.
I get him to assist at the training course.

I am hoping thay it is an albino eastern brown. Would be a nice addition to ARP or such like. No promises
Peter


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## peterescue (Apr 25, 2004)

I just found out what happened to what was probably the first reptile of the NSW part of the amnesty.
Keeping This in mind-
What happens to Surrendered Reptiles?
Every effort will be made to place surrendered animals in zoos or other institutions that can use them for conservation or educational purposes. Reptiles that cannot be placed will be subject to humane euthanasia in accordance with best practice animal welfare standards. (from the website)
It was taken to a vet and euthanaised by NPWS immediately.
Imagine if there was a dog amnesty and you had to prove that your dog arrived here legally or they would kill it. How many people would hand their dog in. Same obviously goes for most exotic owners I guess.
Just a something to mull over.
Peter


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## dobermanmick (Apr 25, 2004)

What about cats ?
They cause alot of deaths to our native wildlife but they are at least given up to a week to find new homes although the good ones get longer !
They are introduced arent they ?


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## peterescue (Apr 25, 2004)

Im more thinking along the lines that most people have some emotional attachment to their pets. This includes people like us who keep reptiles.
The main flaw in the exotic amnesty is that the government thinks that most exotic herp owners will prefer to see their anumals dead as opposed to a hefty fine.
I have a feeling that they have underestimated those people.
WHat is happening is the to cover up a mess created by subsequent governments they have decided to turn the keepers of exotics into criminals.
Peter
ps. I do not keep exotics.


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## africancichlidau (Apr 25, 2004)

Ah well, life goes on, unless you're an exotic that is


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## obee (Apr 25, 2004)

i know i could never afford 5 yrs jail or $110,000 .if you keep an exotic,then shortly you are a criminal.who cares what government made the mess at last this one is doing something.as far as cats are concerned giving them a week when picked up is a week to long.i spend a lot of time out bush and last year got 634 cats which i am happy to say is the least amount in 9 yrs from the same area.i love cats but they don't belong here either.
just my opinion.

obee


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## africancichlidau (Apr 25, 2004)

> who cares what government made the mess at last this one is doing something



Here Here


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## instar (Apr 26, 2004)

its a bit crap given no-one cares about exotic fish or birds.


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## phantom (Apr 26, 2004)

im not giving up my exotic birds


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## obee (Apr 26, 2004)

instar you are right nobody seems to care about exotic fish or birds and i'am talkin wild populations.i can walk 50 m from my front door and the drains are chocca's full of tilapia.the problem is so bad here they just seem to have given up.indian minahs are plague proportions.
fortunately the amnesty is only for reptiles phantom and not birds.i can't understand why people would want to keep exotics,we are the luckiest country with the most amazing animals on earth i would give up any exotics to keep it that way.
enough damage has already been done.
just my opinion.

obee


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## Pinkie (Apr 26, 2004)

> its a bit crap given no-one cares about exotic fish or birds.



There are actually quite a few management efforts being conducted at the moment to eradicate populations of exotic fish and birds, for example the Indian mynah bird (flying rats).


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## instar (Apr 26, 2004)

how do you deal with exoctic wild pops of fish ? given most species are aquarium fish flushed down the loo or directly released ,what can they possibly do? are indian miners those noisy black ones with yellow beaks? noisy minors?


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## Ricko (Apr 26, 2004)

thats the ones. they are so annoying its not funny. lol


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## Pinkie (Apr 26, 2004)

Okay Indian mynahs are the dark brown ones with yellow beaks and yellow around their eyes. They are scavengers and an introduced pest.

Australian miners or Noisy miners are the grey ones with darker gray heads and yellow beaks/yellow around eyes. They are a native species and they are nectivorous (drink nectar from native plants such as grevillea, bottlebrush etc).


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## instar (Apr 26, 2004)

thanks for clearing that up, both are pest and scare native colorful birds away. the colored ones get fed in my garden, and the minors steal their seed by driving them off.


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## NoOne (Apr 26, 2004)

Exotic fish, look no futher than the carp and redfin and the damage they have caused.
I still would like a chameloen.


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## Pinkie (Apr 26, 2004)

> thanks for clearing that up, both are pest and scare native colorful birds away. the colored ones get fed in my garden



Lol, birds aren't pest species just because they aren't coloured.
Native Noisy/Australian miners &lt;grey ones> don't eat seed, they eat nectar, so they wouldn't be taking the food from the coloured birds. They aren't a pest species.


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## peterescue (Apr 26, 2004)

Here here my ****.
The people who you deliver the snakes to in NSW do not have the capability of identifying the animals that are handed to them. 
If they are handed a hard to identify Aust native then it will probably be euthanaised. 
the albino snake that was picked up will probably turn out to be a king snake but I need to have it positively identified before I kill it.
Im just annoyed that Ive been roped into this.


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## Ricko (Apr 26, 2004)

do you have to get it euthanised? are you keeping it at your house?


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## peterescue (Apr 26, 2004)

Yes, not at my house. Dont want my collection euthaised as well.
I went up to identify it yesterday with a bunch of herp old timers and we couldnt agree to what it was.
scale count is 25 in the middle
divided cloaca
non venemous
no pits but holds on like a python.


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## Hickson (Apr 26, 2004)

Peter,
have you got any pics?

Hix


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## Hickson (Apr 26, 2004)

Pinkie said:


> Native Noisy/Australian miners &lt;grey ones> don't eat seed, they eat nectar, so they wouldn't be taking the food from the coloured birds. They aren't a pest species.



Noisy miners will eat seed if it's available. But they are primarily insectivorous, but will also take some friut and berries. And some nectar.

Hix


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## peterescue (Apr 26, 2004)

not yet, being sent to me tomorrow. I'll post them then.


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## Greebo (Apr 26, 2004)

Well, I hope it ends up in a Zoo and not a freezer.
I can't wait for the debate about what it is once you post some pictures.


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## peterescue (Apr 26, 2004)

sms just informed me that it constricts its food.
We want to set up something so that NPWS are put on the spot about the bit of finding a home for it so to speak. Some media perhaps.

I originally thought it was a boid as its head reminded me of an Antaresia in shape only.


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## Hickson (Apr 26, 2004)

Yeah, many colubrids constrict too.

You said some oldtimers had no idea about it, do they have experience with exotics?

Hix


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## peterescue (Apr 27, 2004)

Not a lot.
Mostly Aussie natives. Thats why I want to get a positive ID first.
That way when its given to NPWS they can also be given an option to pass it on if its wanted.


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## peterescue (Apr 27, 2004)

OK, humble pie time. Just spoke to the vet who euthanaised the corn and he said it wasnt NPWS who brought it in.
My apologies guys.
Peter


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## stockeh (Apr 27, 2004)

identification is easy mate.... just find someone with a rattlesnake which will of course be handed in with the amnesty  and put it in with the albino that you cant identify.

If it isnt there in the morning and the albino is a little fatty odds are good thet it is a king snake... and you can pat yourself on the back knowing that you saved the rattler from getting euthanised, and gave the kingsnake a great last meal.


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## stockeh (Apr 27, 2004)

in all seriousness though with the info that you have provided i am still backing kingsnake... albinism is apparently quite common in the species and the markings that you talk about seem to be on track


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## peterescue (Apr 27, 2004)

chuckle!
About your rabbit sausages. There is a bit of interest here in Sydney.
Peter


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## stockeh (Apr 27, 2004)

i am picking up the first batch tomorrow so i will make a post as soon as i am ready to go there seems to be a fair bit of interest across australia at the moment so i guess i will have to pull my finger out.... the problem was getting natural skins instead of synthetic ones.... but i didnt want anything unnatural in them. now we have that sorted i will be able to have a constant supply on hand.

Also i will have frozen whole rabbits available, more info on that will follow in the post i make tomorrow

Take care pete
Matt


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2004)

These pics might be to big but I'll give it a try
Peter


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## stockeh (Apr 28, 2004)

well that pretty much confirme to me that it is a kingsnake check him out compared to this one


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## stockeh (Apr 28, 2004)

the head on your guy is a little more slender but that would indicate that it is southern in origin, wheras the one i have posted is northen.

i was trying to show yo the paterning on him but it doesnt really come out in this pic


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## basketcase (Apr 28, 2004)

yup definately a *corn*


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## NCHERPS (Apr 28, 2004)

Peter,
Your snake photo is a adult rat snake, probably a corn from the photo, but it's not too clear.
Definately not a kingsnake though.


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## stockeh (Apr 28, 2004)

here is a pic of a rat snake the head looks a little to skinny to be one of these guys


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## stockeh (Apr 28, 2004)

a closer look ... (no more comments about the hairy arms ok... i know i know already )


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2004)

more


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## NCHERPS (Apr 28, 2004)

Hi Stockeh,
You snake photo does look like he has a big head, but I guarantee you that the snake in Peters photo is a rat snake, probably Elaphe g.guttata.
I have been keeping snakes for 20 years, 19 of them in the UK and have seen alot of both Kingsnakes and Rat snakes.
Do a search for albino rat snake or corn, you will see what I mean.

Neil


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2004)

and more


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## stockeh (Apr 28, 2004)

im not questioning you matey if there is anyone that posts on this site that i listen to it is you.... just looked a lot like a kingy thats all


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## NCHERPS (Apr 28, 2004)

Thanks Stockeh, That's quite a compliment!
Looking at your new Pictures Peter, I am thinking that it is a snow corn now or another type of Rat snake, I will do some research on it for you.
Peter, what are the markings like on it?, it's difficult to see.


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## basketcase (Apr 28, 2004)

neil's right, its a corn, u can tell from the markings in the clearer pics


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2004)

The markings in the pics are easier to see than on the snake itself. Its about 1.5m
Peter


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## Slateman (Apr 28, 2004)

corn


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## BROWNS (Apr 28, 2004)

I'm not handing in my Komodo Dragon.......


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## peterescue (Apr 28, 2004)

Slateman said:


> corn



The band debate is in another post. Its spelt Korn by the way.

Peter


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## Hickson (Apr 29, 2004)

peterescue said:


> scale count is 25 in the middle
> divided cloaca
> non venemous
> no pits but holds on like a python.



Definitely not a Kingsnake, as they all have single anal scales.
The Corn and Rats have divided anals. According to my book, the Corn has 27-29 rows, but the Rats have 25-35, depending on the species. All the Rats appear to have very faintly keeled scales. In the Corn, the ventrals are "flat in the middle, with ends angled up sharply. Scales smooth or weakly keeled."

Wish there was an American equivalent of Cogger's, with dichotomous keys.

Hix


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## peterescue (Apr 29, 2004)

[quote="the ventrals are "flat in the middle, with ends angled up sharply. Scales smooth or weakly keeled."
Hix[/quote]

and that clinches it I think.
A snow it is I think.
Peter


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## Greebo (Apr 29, 2004)

Your old time herp friends didn't know this was a corn snake?
It looks identical to the one that I had once upon a time.
(ps.I only have legal snakes now.NPWS have checked my collection twice.)


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