# Red nosed rats



## spydon (Sep 28, 2007)

This is happening to my rats and was just wondering whats happening to them?


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## Pike01 (Sep 28, 2007)

Fighting or maybe trying to get the food through the wire


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## Gecko :) (Sep 28, 2007)

Hi,

What type of bedding are you using?


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## spydon (Sep 28, 2007)

breeder's choice.
I have just recently separated all of them especially one female has had nine babies(first litter)


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## luke.r.s (Sep 28, 2007)

possibly fighting or wire problems, but as it looks bilateral (and is effecting multiple animals?) it s more likely a reseritory infection they can get a vet will be able to tell you more after makeing a slide of the dischage/fine needle asperrate, etc cant remember the exact diagnostic test. if it is the infection im thinking of it can be treated but requires a fairly long antibiotic/anti protazoal course. if so culling and steralizing might also be a consideration depending if they are feeders which you dont have an attachment to or pets.
luke


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## NinaPeas (Sep 28, 2007)

I used to keep rats, and this happened with mine also, they also had little blood noses sometimes. After separting, changing substrate etc etc, I took one to the vet and he said it's common for rats to have this happen, and it's nothing to worry about.

It didn't seem to affect them physically, and they lived long healthy, happy lives. If you are relly concerned, or it's getting much worse, take it to the vet.


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## Hetty (Sep 28, 2007)

Some of my rats get it too. I think it's either the wood shavings making them sneeze or them chewing on the wire trying to get out. I'm thinking it's probably the wire, because only a few of my rats have it.


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## congo_python (Sep 28, 2007)

Spydon
It is nothing to worry about as i learnt in my animal husbandry course a couple of years back that it is actually a red dye substance that is naturally produced, and if i remember correctly it's due to stress and you'll notice it more on the white rats than the others. It is no problem at all and you don't have to do anything special to stop it happening as it will happen anyway, and it is not deprimental to your rats health.

Congo


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## spydon (Nov 6, 2007)

Just a quick update, we left for Melbourne for the week having brother to look after the rats. To come back to find two of the older rats were on their deathbeds and the other ate all nine of her babies. So all we have left is one female cannibal rat


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## Helikaon (Nov 6, 2007)

spydon said:


> Just a quick update, we left for Melbourne for the week having brother to look after the rats. To come back to find two of the older rats were on their deathbeds and the other ate all nine of her babies. So all we have left is one female cannibal rat


 

she probably ate them because you seperated her, that was silly, rats develop strong family system adn when streesed they do things liek eat their children. the only time you shoudl be seperating your small family set up si when you want to dry the female off as giving birth and raiseing babies takes a lot out of her. a tchnique i have foudn to work is one male to four females if you are wiching to breed a lot. you keep them in a sizeable enclosure and you allow them to breed, you remove the babies at 4 weeks and place them into a rearing enclosure, this allows for the mother to have another litter without the older babies still consumign her milk. continue this untill you feel she needs a dry period, say after 2 litters of 4 litters. on top of this they shoudl be given a good pellet diet with minimal fat. and the enclosures you choose should have a decent air flow adn be cool to prevent respiratory infections. and obviously ketp clean. oh and when you decide to seperate the male make sure there is no babies when you reintroduce him or he may kill and eat everything in the enclosure. 

cheers
H.


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## spydon (Nov 6, 2007)

it was for a week that they not receive any water or food, I say thats the reason. They were separated weeks prior to our trip to Melbourne. oh and btw she had the most air flow as the roofing of the large tub was fly wire


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## Helikaon (Nov 6, 2007)

spydon said:


> it was for a week that they not receive any water or food, I say thats the reason. They were separated weeks prior to our trip to Melbourne. oh and btw she had the most air flow as the roofing of the large tub was fly wire


 

ah i see so your brother is as bad as mien then. i've come to realise that you can never rely on anyoen to look after your pets, as they never seem to do as good a job as yourself. if that made sense


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## geckodan (Nov 6, 2007)

congo_python said:


> Spydon
> It is nothing to worry about as i learnt in my animal husbandry course a couple of years back that it is actually a red dye substance that is naturally produced, and if i remember correctly it's due to stress and you'll notice it more on the white rats than the others. It is no problem at all and you don't have to do anything special to stop it happening as it will happen anyway, and it is not deprimental to your rats health.
> 
> Congo



Congo is partly correct. The redness is usually a pigment called porphyrin that is produced as a metabolic byproduct of certain species of bacteria which constitute normal flora in a number of species and proliferate in areas of moisture. These are the same bacteria that cause tear staining in little white fluffy dogs and red staining of the feet in dogs that constantly lick their feet due to allergy. In many cases in rats the presence of occasional porphyrin is normal but constant presence suggests that there is a greater level of moisture than normal. This can occur with respiratory irritation from bedding (saps etc. causing vapour irritation or dusty bedding), irritation from ammonia in dirty bedding or from one of the many respiratory viruses/mycoplasmas.


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## spydon (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for your help guys. Won't be breeding her for two reasons one being no other to mate with and two its hitting summer.


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## Hetty (Nov 6, 2007)

Helikaon said:


> she probably ate them because you seperated her



I have discussed this with many rat breeders. I tried the communal thing at first but the litters with more than just the mother in the cage (extra male or female(s)) got eaten. Since then I have separated pregnant female rats a few days before they are due. I had one litter eaten and culled the mother. Haven't had any other problems with that method.


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## Krystal (Nov 6, 2007)

Mice can breed together without fighting over babies, they share the duties.
You need to separate the female rats as the will fight and steal the babies from each other even if they are the best of friends. As thenothing said, separate the female before she gives birth.
As geckodan said the porphyrin is the red stuff that looks like blood, it is worse in rats that have myco (respiratory infection) and stress and too much dust make it worse. All rats get it from their mother as soon as they are born. It comes out their eyes and nose and then they wipe it all over their fur as well.


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## Helikaon (Nov 6, 2007)

thenothing said:


> I have discussed this with many rat breeders. I tried the communal thing at first but the litters with more than just the mother in the cage (extra male or female(s)) got eaten. Since then I have separated pregnant female rats a few days before they are due. I had one litter eaten and culled the mother. Haven't had any other problems with that method.


 

hmm i guess go with what works for you, i got given the breeding adivce from a woman who owns a "mousery" and a mouse circus. she also bred rats for many years, and it has never failed for her and her rats are huge i mean freaking huge. haha but yes i guess there may be otehr factors that come into play as unlike the lady not everyone can have a big shed with climate control jsut for mice and rats. the only thing i have had problems with the communal way was that i intially was not removing the babies at 4 weeks and my mothers w=lost a lot of condition quickly and i had to stop breeding her. the same ones are now breeding for my mate and but has one male my splinter with 2 girls and tehy seem to be breedign very well.


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## wood_nymph (Nov 6, 2007)

red noses are usually the first sign of a respitary infectio which spreads though rats liek wildfire. unlike us their mucus glads contain a red pigment so crust around their eyes and snot appears red, most people mistake this for blood. it might not be RI, similar symptoms occur when they have allergic reactions just like us their nose and eyes water. allgeries can be triggered by environmentaly factors such as too much amoina from unclean cages where there's a lot of urine hanging around or bedding that produces a lot of dust. allergies in rats however tend to present young and rarely affect all rats so if it's affected multiple rats all of a sunned without a change in how you house them and is causing death RI is far more likley as rats rarely die from allergies and if they do it's a slow prosess. RI in small mammals can be hard to treat if not treated in the very early stages, the usualy protocal for treatment is to completely isolate rats as soon as they become symptomatic and start traetment with oral antiboitics such as baytril which you'll need to get from a vet. the other option is to of cause euthenis (sp?) them as soon as they show symptoms to save the others catching it, but treatment should be attempted first.
in regards to mums eating babies the two biggest reasons for this are stress or illness present in the babies or the mother. stress triggered eating occurs a lot in larger litters from younger mums, chances of it happening can be reduced if you seperate the mother from all other rats before she has them at least half a week before due date, not handling her or the babies until they are eating solid food and of course providing her with a protein high diet while the babies are on her. whem mother rats are sick they commonly eat the babies so reduce the stress of feeding them is putting on their bodies, it's a way of cutting her losses and regaining the calories she's wasted on them.
anyway sorry i didn;t see your post earlier i'm on a sort of self imposed net ban atm. i;m not a vet or anything ut i have bred and kept mice and rats for 10years now so i've seen these things before i hope something in there helps and my spelling isn't too bad


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## spydon (Nov 8, 2007)

Thank you all for your information. I will put this good use when we buy another rat or few, but for the moment she will just have to find other means of quenching her needs


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## mightymike (Jan 8, 2008)

last litter my rats had, only 2 survived

1 had like a red rash on its face... it ended up spreading and dying before i had a chance to take to a vet


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## OdessaStud (Jan 8, 2008)

Sorry but youve had a case of myco go through your coloney.They will excreet red mucas from their noses first then slowley become thinner and eventually die.As you said not haveing food or water for a week will kill most rodents anyway but i believe the death sentence was already set before you even went away.It takes along time to rid the myco virus from a coloney of rodents mice dont seem to be as suseptable(sp) as rats are but Id bet my left arm that myco was the main cause of your rats problems.If they werent fed for a week (hope i read your post right) then they will eat each other self preservation is their main concern even if it means eating their own young.Im not trying to contradict anyone else but ive seen it so oftern over the last 10 years especially your symptons are almost text book.I dont know what it is but its only in the last 10 years that ive seen it occur so oftern.10 years previous it was almost un heard of. I posted a link to a site explaining myco but cant repost it as ive change computers and dont have the link on this one as yet but if you look back through some old posts youll find it, type myco into the search bar and it should come up.
Good luck and sorry to hear you also have incompetant people looking after your animals while your away, my last trip cost me a couple of my best breeders probably around $200 worth of rats, next time i have to go away im employing someone to come and look after them, maybe paying someone to baby sit them will save me in the long run.one can only try.....
Odie


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