# Salamanders & Newts



## cid_python (Aug 28, 2010)

Are we allowd to keep salamanders and newts in Australia? I know a few people that own them.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

We can keep Axolotyls and it is possible (though not easy) to morph them into Salamanders, they are they only legal ones in Oz although they are a few getting around being sold as morphed axos but clearly are not


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## Jay84 (Aug 28, 2010)

Unfortunately newts were made illegal some years ago. You used to be able to buy them in some aquariums. 

Axolotyls or mexican walking fish are readily available and these can and do change into salamanders sometimes and are sold as pets.

What newts does your friend have???


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## cid_python (Aug 28, 2010)

Im not quit shore what type they are but I know they have them. They have sort of a faint orange stripe down the back of them and are blacky brown.


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## richoman_3 (Aug 28, 2010)

what do you guys mean by morphing axolotls into salamanders ?
i would love some newts and salamanders


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## BigWillieStyles (Aug 28, 2010)

cid_python said:


> Im not quit shore what type they are but I know they have them. They have sort of a faint orange stripe down the back of them and are blacky brown.



I vaguely remember seeing newts like this in pet stores several years back.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

Axos are the "tadpole" stage of a Salamanders life but they can live their entire life without morphing


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## lloydy (Aug 28, 2010)

How do you make then morph?

How interesting...


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## phoebe (Aug 28, 2010)

Funny this topic came up. I was in a pet shop today and they had a salamander advertised as a salamander with a care sheet. I can't remember the name of it or it's scientific name but it was smaller than an axolotl and completely black/dark brown.
Thought that was a bit odd. Might have to go back and have another look at some stage..


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## richoman_3 (Aug 28, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Axos are the "tadpole" stage of a Salamanders life but they can live their entire life without morphing


 
so are you saying there is a chance of them morphing ?

are axos coldwater ? and what size tank usually for them ... cheers


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## Cold-B-Hearts (Aug 28, 2010)

I always wanted a Mexican walking fish as a child Im not quite sure what a newt is I'm guessing it's similar ? Pic up anyone


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## mrdose (Aug 28, 2010)

I could be wrong.. But isn't it illegal to morph them into salamanders? Also I'm pretty sure it can go horribly wrong and more than halfs there life span..


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## cid_python (Aug 28, 2010)

richoman_3 said:


> so are you saying there is a chance of them morphing ?
> 
> are axos coldwater ? and what size tank usually for them ... cheers



Axolotls are cold water, I kept mine in a 30L x 20W cm tank


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## Jay84 (Aug 28, 2010)

The newts that used to be available in Australian Aquariums were the Common or Smooth Newt - from Europe, and the Japanese Fire Bellied Newt.

I remember catching these newts as a kid in the UK and keeping them for a while then releasing them back into the garden pond. 

I would love to keep them again


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## zeke (Aug 28, 2010)

ive heard that the gene that allows them to morph has been pretty well bredd out of the captive populations so you could end up killin them insted


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## cris (Aug 28, 2010)

I remember seeing fire bellied newts at pet city in Brisbane about 15 years ago, i would have bought them if the sales guy didnt BS about needing to spend hundreds of dollars on stuff that i now know isnt needed, then again many pet shops do the same thing with any animal. 

Assuming they were legally imported to start with what laws would prevent them from being kept? Im wouldnt doubt there are some but we are allowed to keep cane toads and axolotls in Qld.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 28, 2010)

I have morphed a few over the years without any issues.I also can't see how it would be illegal to do so.


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## cris (Aug 28, 2010)

zeke said:


> ive heard that the gene that allows them to morph has been pretty well bredd out of the captive populations so you could end up killin them insted


 
Im not 100% sure on this but as far as i know the species doesnt normally morph naturally. There are a few types of salamanders that breed at juvenile stage and dont morph into the typical adult salamander.


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## cris (Aug 28, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> I have morphed a few over the years without any issues.I also can't see how it would be illegal to do so.


 
Im pretty sure its banned under animal cruelty laws in some states, although it may depend on the method used to manipulate the animal. From what i have heard they are retarded and cant really live properly without special care onced morphed, is that true?


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## Jay84 (Aug 28, 2010)

retarded?!?!?! I don't think so.

They are fully capable of living normal lives once morphed.


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## Ramsayi (Aug 28, 2010)

cris said:


> Im pretty sure its banned under animal cruelty laws in some states, although it may depend on the method used to manipulate the animal. From what i have heard they are retarded and cant really live properly without special care onced morphed, is that true?


 
Would like to see any such legislation.
I never had any issues keeping them alive,as far as special care went just a moist environment was supplied.Not sure what you mean about retarded.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

phoebe said:


> Funny this topic came up. I was in a pet shop today and they had a salamander advertised as a salamander with a care sheet. I can't remember the name of it or it's scientific name but it was smaller than an axolotl and completely black/dark brown.
> Thought that was a bit odd. Might have to go back and have another look at some stage..


I know the exact one your talking about, the shop keeper that was there at the time couldnt tell me a thing about them but from what I could tell it looked exactly the same as morphed axos iv seen.


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## Nash1990 (Aug 28, 2010)

This topic was discussed at tafe this week lol

Axos that are sold in pet shops come from a specific gene that lived in iodine deficient waters so couldn't morph into salamanders, but could reproduce at the larval stage.
The teacher didn't go into specifics about how to morph them cause she didn't want everyone going home and trying it lol. And the chemicals arn't as readily available these days. She had 3 salamanders, one died in a few days, one lasted a few months, the other lived on for 10 years i think she said.
You'd care for them pretty much the same as a frog.

I havn't heard of any laws forbiding morphing.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

They available in quite a few pet shops around Sydney, morphing them is down with iodine and reducing the water level, its not an easy process and apparently you will kill a few trying to figure it out.
Maybe Ramsayi can enlighten us on how its done?


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## Daryl_H (Aug 28, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> I have morphed a few over the years without any issues.I also can't see how it would be illegal to do so.



is this hard to do? sounds very intersting!!!


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## cris (Aug 28, 2010)

Ramsayi said:


> Would like to see any such legislation.
> I never had any issues keeping them alive,as far as special care went just a moist environment was supplied.Not sure what you mean about retarded.


 
I thought that they need to be hand fed or something and wernt able to catch there own food. I read about it being illegal on this site but cant remember which state it was although im pretty sure it wasnt Qld.

How do you morph them? 

Just had a look and found the old thread that i started a few years ago, i have read other stuff about them but after reading some of this stuff it seemed a bit wrong (not to say the info on this thread is definately fact).
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-reptiles-40/axolotls-38058/


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## Tsubakai (Aug 28, 2010)

You can also morph them with thyroid hormone injections if you can get your hands on it.


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## monique18026 (Aug 28, 2010)

You can buy morphed salamanders they are called marbled salamanders I think but they can't breed or anything they are just morphed axoltals seen some avaiable on wholesale lists but rarely


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## Ramsayi (Aug 28, 2010)

Tsubakai said:


> You can also morph them with thyroid hormone injections if you can get your hands on it.


 I always just used it in tablet form.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

cris said:


> I thought that they need to be hand fed or something and wernt able to catch there own food. I read about it being illegal on this site but cant remember which state it was although im pretty sure it wasnt Qld.
> 
> H


All the ones Iv seen were quite capable of catching their own food


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## Waterrat (Aug 28, 2010)

Some facts:

Morphing, in this context, sounds like creating some unusual creature. The proper term is "metamorphoses" and it is a natural developmental stage in amphibians. The nymphs (axotls) live in iodine deficient waters (in the wild), which prevents metamorphoses. They are able to reproduce in nymph (larval) stage but *not* as adults (salamanders). The ability to reproduce in a larval stage is called "neoteny".
To induce metamorphoses in captivity, the axotls has to be fed thyroid gland, iodine has to be added (in gradual doses) into their water and the water level gradually lowered.


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## phoebe (Aug 28, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> I know the exact one your talking about, the shop keeper that was there at the time couldnt tell me a thing about them but from what I could tell it looked exactly the same as morphed axos iv seen.


 
Ah well I've never seen a 'morphed' axo before so I wasn't sure what they looked like. That possibility did cross my mind though, but I thought it looked way too small. I might ask them about it next time I'm there haha (dunno when that'll be...I stopped going to them ages ago).


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

phoebe said:


> Ah well I've never seen a 'morphed' axo before so I wasn't sure what they looked like. That possibility did cross my mind though, but I thought it looked way too small. I might ask them about it next time I'm there haha (dunno when that'll be...I stopped going to them ages ago).


 Are they any better alternatives in the area?, I just go there cos they have a decent range and I dont like going to Petbarn


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## Daryl_H (Aug 28, 2010)

anyone got some pic so we can all see what they look like?


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

Daryl_H said:


> anyone got some pic so we can all see what they look like?


 Im going to the pet shop tomorrow, Il see if they let me take a pic


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## Daryl_H (Aug 28, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Im going to the pet shop tomorrow, Il see if they let me take a pic


that would be awsome!!! thanks for trying


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 28, 2010)

Daryl_H said:


> that would be awsome!!! thanks for trying


 Better yet, wire me $100 so i can buy it and i'll post all the pics you want :lol:


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## richoman_3 (Aug 29, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Im going to the pet shop tomorrow, Il see if they let me take a pic


 
that'd be awesome


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## phoebe (Aug 29, 2010)

Geckoman said:


> Are they any better alternatives in the area?, I just go there cos they have a decent range and I dont like going to Petbarn


 
I go to All Things Slimey. I'll go to Petbarn or the 'other one' if I can't make it out there 'cause it is a bit of a drive. Worth it I think though.


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## GeckoJosh (Aug 29, 2010)

phoebe said:


> I go to All Things Slimey. I'll go to Petbarn or the 'other one' if I can't make it out there 'cause it is a bit of a drive. Worth it I think though.


 I think il stick with local shops.
I didnt make it the the pet shop today, il post a pic as soon as i do


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## Gobo (Aug 29, 2010)

I have put these up before but here they are again.
I have had these two for a few years now and bought them already 'morphed' and they seem to be going quite well. i would agree they aren't the best at catching their own food but it does happen and i do hand feed them too.
browny coloured one is 'yoshi'
pink coloured one is 'kirby'
enjoy


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## Snakeluvver2 (Aug 29, 2010)

Where these supplementary hormonally induced? Or just a random act??


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## syeph8 (Aug 29, 2010)

i've never tried it before, but i was under the impression that raising the temp of the water slowly and decreasing water level, providing them with land to occupy was the way to go. my housemate has been in the research and planning phase of this for 3 months now and knows tonnes more than me on the subject, but this is what i gleaned from our discussions. he believes that the chemical and hormone theories can help, but arent crucial. (i am unsure how he intends to go about it)

(this is based on the discussions ive had with one intelligent, yet inexperienced individual and not based on any research or experience of mine)


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## Jimbobulan (Aug 31, 2010)

I have heard that your best chance is to use the black or olive ones to morph because the gold and albino ones usually die during the 'morph' (to many problems already i'd say). The olive ones are suposed to be genetically closest to the ones in the wild. This is what i have heard from people that have done it before.


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## Snake-Supplies (Dec 19, 2010)

cid_python said:


> Im not quit shore what type they are but I know they have them. They have sort of a faint orange stripe down the back of them and are blacky brown.


 

That would most likely be a chinese or japanese firebelly.
I used to have some many years back when they were legal
They also come as a firebellied toad...

as far as I know, you can go to the vet and ask them to inject iodine into them... or a thyroid injction...
i also dont think it's illegal, I seen in in harrys practise.


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## Dannyboi (Dec 19, 2010)

lloydy said:


> How do you make then morph?
> 
> How interesting...


 There is two ways one way is using certain plants and another is to give them Thyroxine


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## dihsmaj (Dec 21, 2010)

Dannyboi said:


> There is two ways one way is using certain plants and another is to give them Thyroxine


 I've heard yellow grass (as in hay yellow) is high in iodine... I used it to up the development of my tadpoles, as according to Craig Omeara.


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