# thorny devils



## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

So I have a question, if one could somehow solve the issue of massive numbers of ants being needed is it actually possible to get a hold of these guys in the pet trade? I am in the midst of landscaping my property and putting in enclosures for all my animals and would love to install a lovely big heated enclosure and turn it into essentially a giant well established ant farm and keep some babies in it


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## elogov (Sep 28, 2011)

I highly doubt it, Well not legally anyway.


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## Reptile_Maniac (Sep 28, 2011)

I have not seen anyone owning one around this sight but I think a few do! Unfortunately a thorny devil will eat a whole ant colony in one sitting, therefore an ant farm could be difficult to maintain!


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

*sigh*, yeah i kind of thought that might be the case but sometimes you don't know unless you ask 


I have a massive penchant for the unusual and for creating little mini habitats as enclosures so it's always been a little dreamof mine :lol:


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

I knew a bloke who aquired a few some years back and by aquired I mean drove along and picked them up. Needless to say they all died a short time later.


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

Yeah when I say ant farm I'm talking a bit bigger than your average ant farm  More like multiple enclosures with a number of colonies each that can be moved around and refreshed regularly.



> I knew a bloke who aquired a few some years back and by aquired I mean drove along and picked them up. Needless to say they all died a short time later.



 How stupid would you have to be....

It's something I'd have to be very sure was set up perfectly for many months before you could even have any confidence of adding devils into the equation.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

Each devil will eat thousands of ants each day. It'll need to be more of a nation than farm.



snakeynewbie said:


> Yeah when I say ant farm I'm talking a bit bigger than your average ant farm  More like multiple enclosures with a number of colonies each that can be moved around and refreshed regularly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The bloke was, and probably still is a complete knob


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

:lol: Yep ant nation. I'd be thinking along the lines of a huge enclosure tht was big enough to self sustain actual ant hills, I've got the space to play with so sharing a good chuck of it with a couple of lizards wouldn't bother me.

5'm in the midst of enclosing a 30metre by 30 metre area for a permaculture set up which I plan to keep a single pair of blue wrens in so i'm a bit crazy that way :lol:


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## abnrmal91 (Sep 28, 2011)

Been done to death. Unless you live in the right area no you can keep them. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-lizards-5383/thorny-devils-168504/ 

This topic has been done to death. They need very specific types of ants and they only eat of trails.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

Mate you must have alot of backyard to play with and money to burn, you lucky bastard


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

sorry your link didn't work. I'm not sure what you mean by done to death though, I'm sure it's something that crosses the minds of some but I can imagine very few would actually be up to the challenge. I'm a zoologist/botanist and i work in the wildlife industry so I have a fair bit of knowledge on creating enclosed ecosystems. I also have plans for an indoor atrium that I intend to install cliimate control in to allow me to breed a couple of frog species that are very close to my heart.

I'd happily make the space and burn the money if I knew there was any chance of legally getting my hands on some.


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 28, 2011)

Reptile_Maniac said:


> I have not seen anyone owning one around this sight but I think a few do! Unfortunately a thorny devil will eat a whole ant colony in one sitting, therefore an ant farm could be difficult to maintain!



Well, not quite a whole ant colony... They're not difficult to keep if you have the requisite species of ants and the space to allow them to live 'normal' lives. There was thread devoted to this about a month ago...

Jamie


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## GeckPhotographer (Sep 28, 2011)

By done to death he means this topic of discussion has been talked about so many times it's become old.  Regardless I think you are the first I've seen that could actually get it going but he's right. Thorny Devils only eat specific species of ants and eat them only off ant trails. They often wonder fair distances finding good trails before stopping at one. At least a couple places keep these in enclosures within their natural range and just have wire at the bottom of the cage to allow ant access. Otherwise I think it damn near impossible, you'd need more than just money to burn and space, you'd need innovative ideas able to mass produce ants of the right type in an enclosure specifically designed to create ant trails even in a small space. (Small space I mean less than A kilometer or so.)


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks guys, given me some ideas to think about and problems to work out the best ways to overcome. I'll also have to check licensing as well, not sure if it's even possible from a licensing perspective...

I think i'll probably still work on an enclosure with thorny devils as the long term wish and in the short term I can test some theories with regard to ant husbandry as well. 

I have plans for a series of pits so I'll probably look at incorporating an ant hill into each of them even if their usual inhabitants aren't that big into ant, will give me better long term flexibility if something happens to one or more of the main hills.


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## LadyJ (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh my... unless you're a zoo I don't think you can get one. Or should for that matter. Thanks for the laugh though!


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

I work at a zoo actually so it may be possible, it's actually something I'd love to set up for the zoo but I don't think they'd have the space, I on the other hand do.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

Go for it mate, I met a bloke a bit over 20 years ago when I was first starting out with keeping reptiles. I was invited over to see his collection and get a few pointers. He had a few Perentes and was the first person in the ACT to have them, he managed to have laws changed in order to get them.


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks Beard.

Well it might take me a few years but I'll get there eventually. In my opinion it's not something that can be rushed, I fully expect it to be more like one of those things that is an end goal with lots of fun things to do and learn along the way and plenty of hurdles to cross.

I'm yet to check whether they actually fall into the licensing system here but once I have a perfect set up then I can start campaigning to actually keep them and show that they'll be kept as they should be.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

snakeynewbie said:


> Thanks Beard.
> 
> Well it might take me a few years but I'll get there eventually. In my opinion it's not something that can be rushed, I fully expect it to be more like one of those things that is an end goal with lots of fun things to do and learn along the way and plenty of hurdles to cross.
> 
> I'm yet to check whether they actually fall into the licensing system here but once I have a perfect set up then I can start campaigning to actually keep them and show that they'll be kept as they should be.



As a zoologist couldn't you slot it into a scientifec research cat?


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

:lol: Maybe...

I'd probably have to actually be conducting research, maybe something to do with optimal methods for captive husbandry


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## Pythoninfinite (Sep 28, 2011)

Not sure where you are, but if you're in NSW and can acquire it legally you can't be stopped from bringing it into NSW if you push the point. Legal acquisition is the key, and I'm sure the path could be smoothed by developing and submitting a management plan, so it doesn't come across as a whim.

I used to have them from time to time when I lived in Perth, and found them quite easy to manage - a portable pen which could be moved around as needed to wherever the ants were behaving suitably.

Jamie


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## Justdragons (Sep 28, 2011)

id love to see you go for it. most people here have at one point been keen on thorny devils and recieve the same response.. you cannot do it, thousands of ants and dont try, your an idiot... I think you should try and try hard and prove it can be done. im sure ants reproduce like crazy and if you have the space i dont see why you couldnt set up hundreds of 'slides' of glass with sand between and create a massive ant colony if you could imagine. then rotate between the different colonys. letting each colony to rebuild while another is depleted.. 

i feel this will not be cheap or easy but humans can build 200 floor skyscrapers, i have no doubt that with the right planning and effort and passion most of all that this can be done.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

justdragons said:


> id love to see you go for it. most people here have at one point been keen on thorny devils and recieve the same response.. you cannot do it, thousands of ants and dont try, your an idiot... I think you should try and try hard and prove it can be done. im sure ants reproduce like crazy and if you have the space i dont see why you couldnt set up hundreds of 'slides' of glass with sand between and create a massive ant colony if you could imagine. then rotate between the different colonys. letting each colony to rebuild while another is depleted..
> 
> i feel this will not be cheap or easy but humans can build 200 floor skyscrapers, i have no doubt that with the right planning and effort and passion most of all that this can be done.



Do ants go to discos?


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## Justdragons (Sep 28, 2011)

Beard said:


> Do ants go to discos?



i dont understand?


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## junglepython2 (Sep 28, 2011)

Depends on your state in regards to licensing possibilities.

One of the major zoo's failed with them and it was written up in one of the herp magazines, so unless you are around there natural range, I wouldn't like your chances of success.


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## Beard (Sep 28, 2011)

justdragons said:


> i dont understand?



its from the young ones


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## Justdragons (Sep 28, 2011)

oh, lol i had no idea...


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## maddog-1979 (Sep 28, 2011)

Beard said:


> Do ants go to discos?



well why is that one wearing a silver boob tube?


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## Nighthawk (Sep 28, 2011)

Success or not, keep us updated on how you go. I like the little guys myself, and had I the time and space would love to attempt what you're attempting. Laughing matter? Not at all. I can't reach the top shelf in the supermarket without scaling the shelves but I'm not going to laugh at somebody else who tells me they can.
I'm not laughing, I'm intrigued. More so since I read the whole thread, it sounds like you have some pretty valid and viable ideas, so I say document how you go and in a couple of years let us know.


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## elogov (Sep 28, 2011)

I really don't think you should own one, because if you do end up owning one i'll be hassling you every second to come over & have a look at it . & i'm a pretty violent hassler. 

Good luck with it anyway.


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## Snowman (Sep 28, 2011)

Go for it I say. You clearly seem to have the understanding and knowledge to take on such a task. People said I couldn't breed enough big fish to feed the dolphin I keep in my pool alive. I proved them wrong didnt I!!!


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the words of support guys. I have a magnet on my fridge that reads, "Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it." That sums me up pretty well.


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## Jesse_H (Sep 28, 2011)

> "Those who say it cannot be done shouldn't interrupt the people doing it."



When people who claim to be qualified zoologists are persistent in ignoring common sense, sound advice and the wellbeing of the wild animal they are trying to monster in a manifestly inadequate setting, then I do believe that interruption of their manic, deranged antics is to be encouraged before said wild animal dies a slow death in captivity. To paraphrase, you're not getting a thorned devil for Christmas. Not me, not you, not anyone.


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## snakeynewbie (Sep 28, 2011)

Show me a single point here where I've ignored common sense. If you've actually read the thread you'd see I'd taken on board the issues raised by people and discussed possible ways to overcome them and then my final point was that i'd aim to set it up over the next couple of years even and master all the hurdles and then go from there if I thought the set up was viable, I've never said anything was guaranteed unless the set up was perfect.

But that's OK, continue with your assumptions


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## abnrmal91 (Oct 7, 2011)

For anyone interested there is a great article about thorny devils in Vol 2 Issue 5 of Reptiles Australia. It is written by the Alice springs desert park. It outlines feeding issues and how to feed successfully. Very good read.


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## Adsell (Oct 7, 2011)

Thorny devils are actually really easy to keep. Everyone seems to think you need an elaborate set-up with massive amounts of room for huge ant colonies. This is incorrect.
i work for Melbourne Museum and we keep this species and have done so for about the last eight years. As far as I'm aware we have one of the best records for managing this species.
Our ant colonies consist of nothing more than a couple of four foot fish tanks into which the thorny devils are placed every day for a short period. Collecting the ants initially and ensuring you have multiple queens is all that is required. There is actually a very simple way to do this but I'm not giving out all our secrets.
By having a couple of colonies going at once, if one crashes you can alternate while you wait for it to rebuild.
In a four foot tank the ants will generally settle at one end. To get them to trail it is a simple matter of placing a dish of food up the opposite end of the tank.
As for the husbandry requirements of the molochs themselves, anyone who can keep a Beardy could keep these guys. Heat and UV requirements are basically the same.
People do maintain these in private collections and one breeder in particular has had great success with this species. He has bred so many he dosnt know what to do with them.
It helps that he is within their natural range and can keep them outside.
Also before anyone asks, i will not give out this breeders name.
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## Rhomany (Oct 8, 2011)

Oh my goodness that is amazing. Does anyone know of anywhere in NSW that has them captive?


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