# Snake smugglers feel the squeeze



## herptrader (Aug 13, 2009)

*Published:* 8-13-2009
*Source:* Australian Customs and Border Protection Service Media Releases
*Author:* 

Customs and Border Protection has seized two boa constrictors in Perth and two corn snakes in Cairns as part of a major wildlife smuggling investigation.

The investigation began on 18 July when the Western Australian Department of Environment and Conservation (DEC) contacted Customs and Border Protection following a tip-off from a member of the public.

On 30 July, Customs and Border Protection investigators, assisted by DEC wildlife officers and WA Police, executed a Customs search warrant on a residential address at Quinns Rocks, Perth.

*Read More...*


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## herptrader (Aug 13, 2009)

They always do good photos:

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/photogallery/baby_boa_constrictors_web.jpg
http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/photogallery/corn_snake_one.jpg
http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/resources/photogallery/corn_snake_two.jpg


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 13, 2009)

The chap with boa's in Perth, few weeks ago was openly discussing on my W.A forum about his up and coming acquisition and was warned by another member that it’s illegal. Absolute suicide considering the D.E.C often read posts on it. Now he is claiming that the person on my site who had a go at him before he got raided is a nark. Some people really deserve what they get.


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## Retic (Aug 13, 2009)

I don't know about Boa Constrictors, those snakes look like Pacific Boas to me.


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## zoolander (Aug 13, 2009)

*boa constrictors?????*

they have their hand on it again. combined IQ of a wombat. when will they employ just one person who can identify common stuff? why do customs, dec, npws all let themselves be ridiculed? well the smugglers should beat that rap.


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## Retic (Aug 13, 2009)

A reporter got it wrong :shock:


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## carpetmuncher (Aug 13, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> The chap with boa's in Perth, few weeks ago was openly discussing on my W.A forum about his up and coming acquisition and was warned by another member that it’s illegal. Absolute suicide considering the D.E.C often read posts on it. Now he is claiming that the person on my site who had a go at him before he got raided is a nark. Some people really deserve what they get.


 
i think the article makes it clear that some 'dog' put them in. i don't care, but i think they made it clear to the perps who put them in. so no need to make out that there was some great investigative work. you're right, some people really deserve what they get.


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## Brown_Hair (Aug 13, 2009)

No, people should mind their own business..... lol at the "high and mighty" "narks".

And before you start i dont keep exotics and wouldnt, however i dont care if others do or not, its up to them, good luck to them! There's bigger problems out their than illegal animals, contrary to what alot of you think


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## JasonL (Aug 13, 2009)

Play with fire and sooner or later...., and if your dumb enough to openly speak about it on open forums, well...you deserve to get caught..
I like the hook next to the killer corn...


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 13, 2009)

carpetmuncher
I am not making out anything , just reporting additional information for those that want it.


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## stuartandconnie (Aug 13, 2009)

*dogs*



PilbaraPythons said:


> carpetmuncher
> I am not making out anything , just reporting additional information for those that want it.


 
uve got a great attitude


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## zulu (Aug 13, 2009)

*re Snake*

Why would anyone want a smuggled boa or cornsnake when theres plenty that have been bred in australia for generations,all bells and whistles waste of public funds,look at me ive done something,like playschool.


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## JasonL (Aug 13, 2009)

It was huge Col, crack group of DEC officers trained especially for the job by the SAS, 6 months in the making....... for 3 snakes.....one step at a time, now only 20,000 more to go...but their getting there...


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## carpetmuncher (Aug 13, 2009)

JasonL said:


> It was huge Col, crack group of DEC officers trained especially for the job by the SAS, 6 months in the making....... for 3 snakes.....one step at a time, now only 20,000 more to go...but their getting there...


 

whoops, i think another 5 people just bought corns in the last week, they're behind the eight ball again


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## Retic (Aug 13, 2009)

As long as the general public sees them making huge inroads into the problem then all is good. The whole operation probably cost 100's of 1000's of dollars to get 4 snakes, good value for money I reckon.


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## kupper (Aug 13, 2009)

sooner they make them legal the sooner the government can stop paying the departments top dollar to prance around all day and pretend they are doing there jobs


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## zulu (Aug 13, 2009)

*re Snake*



JasonL said:


> It was huge Col, crack group of DEC officers trained especially for the job by the SAS, 6 months in the making....... for 3 snakes.....one step at a time, now only 20,000 more to go...but their getting there...[/QUOTE
> 
> LOL when you bommb the anemy in irack and afghanistan you make martyers and breed terrorists,DECC breeds hosers.


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 13, 2009)

Actually the D.E.C probably do get a bit excited as there are seldom any exoctics busts over here.
Infact I would imagine that the illegal keeping of exoctics would be no where near as wide spread as other states. I certainly do not know of any keepers in this state who have them at least. In N.S.W it seems like every second reptile keeper I speak to has owned an exotic and one point of time.


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## JasonL (Aug 13, 2009)

Every third Dave, every second is in Victoria


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 13, 2009)

Does anyone know or have ever heard of anybody keeping the New zealand green gecko's here in Australia?


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## Sturdy (Aug 13, 2009)

id love a hog nosed.

cant you go herping for corns in sydney?


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## zulu (Aug 13, 2009)

*re Snake*



Sturdy said:


> id love a hog nosed.
> 
> cant you go herping for corns in sydney?



They were reputed to be in the hawkesbury area but dont know anyone thats caught any,most are caught by wires and are escaped pets,the presence of wild corn populations was reported by DECC so that they could gain funding to do what DECCs do,probably have a round up of corn snakes in helicopters and put pic of photo in sunday paper.


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## Snowman (Aug 13, 2009)

another article on it form ABC
Boa constrictors seized in wildlife bust - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## carpetmuncher (Aug 13, 2009)

PilbaraPythons said:


> Does anyone know or have ever heard of anybody keeping the New zealand green gecko's here in Australia?


 
the first rule of Nautilinus is no-one talks about Nautilinus.

i think you would be the last person anyone would tell, so why ask?


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 13, 2009)

Why do you say that carpetmuncher ?, do you think I put this clown in or something?. Instead of snide remarks, how about you say what your really thinking or shut your mouth.


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## Tala1 (Aug 13, 2009)

Call me nuts but I don't care what happens to the idiot. I just hope that they find a home for them and not put the snakes down.


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## yommy (Aug 13, 2009)

Touché Dave  

watch out you'll be on the APS mafia hit list now. 
And the site will lose yet another old school knowledgeable contributor.

It will be interesting to see if the WA Authorities actual punishes this person to the full extent of the law or they get a light slap on the wrist which seems to be the norm?


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## tooninoz (Aug 13, 2009)

Snowman said:


> another article on it form ABC
> Boa constrictors seized in wildlife bust - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



Jeez, you're keen to get amongst this story mate..posts...new threads on same..why?... oh!



> Thought this was APS for a minute
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From here
Good to see youre a muppet on each site


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## herptrader (Aug 13, 2009)

A recent Victorian case regarding GTP's being imported from South Africa, discussed widely here and on APS attracted more than just a slap on the wrist.. I wondered if this was indicative of a change in attitude from the authorities.



yommy said:


> Touché Dave
> 
> watch out you'll be on the APS mafia hit list now.
> And the site will lose yet another old school knowledgeable contributor.
> ...


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## kupper (Aug 13, 2009)

although a recent victorian corns snake case got a 500 fine and no conviction so i wonder if its a sudden change from the authorities or the luck of the draw


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## seanjbkorbett (Aug 13, 2009)

*stupid goverment.*



boa said:


> I don't know about Boa Constrictors, those snakes look like Pacific Boas to me.



yep def not boa constrictors/red tailed boas!!...ahaha and chek the snake hook with the corn snake! ahahahahahaha..ooooooooh deadly!!


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## seanjbkorbett (Aug 13, 2009)

said befor ill say again!! ....as i believe SOME exotics should be allowed,to open up a broader horizon for some herpers who have a interest in other reptiles that australia do not have,why should it be illegal and looked down on for a Aussie who has a interest in SOME exotics (as i do believe some exotics should NOT be allowed over here!)..but what about ,corn snakes,house snakes,leopard gecko's,anoles,chameleons,Iguanas for example,how would n e of those species threaten our enviroment if they get loose?..now dont get me wrong,they should never be loose even if they wont threaten our enviroment..as this is about KEEPING exotics not releasing them..and i dont see any reason why we cant keep SOME exotics (if the goverment does it properly with quarantine and with breeding exotics in australia so we dont have to import and bring in diseases)..and we ALL know IF DONE PROPERLY with lisences,laws and restriction there are SOME exotics that could easily be bred & kept in australia that could NEVER threaten the inviroment..so again..why not! why cant we keep SOME exotcis with laws...im sick of Axolotles,what makes them so special that they can be exotic and be in australia! ahahaha..any way
cheers


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## yommy (Aug 13, 2009)

herptrader said:


> A recent Victorian case regarding GTP's being imported from South Africa, discussed widely here and on APS attracted more than just a slap on the wrist.. I wondered if this was indicative of a change in attitude from the authorities.



True herptrader but what was the end result? Last i had heard it was a $3000 fine with other charges pending. But he got to keep his licence and animals or am i wrong?


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## slim6y (Aug 13, 2009)

Brown_Hair said:


> No, people should mind their own business..... lol at the "high and mighty" "narks".
> 
> And before you start i dont keep exotics and wouldnt, however i dont care if others do or not, its up to them, good luck to them! There's bigger problems out their than illegal animals, contrary to what alot of you think



Hey, fully agreed - there's WAY bigger problems than smuggling of illegal animals... But this one, I am siding with customs (doing their job) and the correct authorities - that's what they're employed to do.

But above all - it's the animal's welfare I am more concerned with.

Remember the shinglebacks in the socks saga? 

Most of those animals suffer too much - and that should be a major concern.

The bigger problems are there too - but smaller problems left unchecked become bigger problems in the future.


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## herptrader (Aug 13, 2009)

yommy said:


> True herptrader but what was the end result? Last i had heard it was a $3000 fine with other charges pending. But he got to keep his licence and animals or am i wrong?




I thought it was more than that. I also have some recollection that there was some follow up legal action that added to it. I also believe he lost all of his animals and his licence.

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?c=10196


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## yommy (Aug 13, 2009)

If he lost his licence and collection that is a good thing and should serve as a deterrent for others thinking about similar ideas. 

I for one would be devastated if I lost my collection due to a stupid situation like keeping exotics illegally.
Don’t get me wrong there are some top looking animals overseas but we have laws for a reason. Hence why I’d never put myself in that sort of situation to risk my animals. 
Some obviously think the risk worth taking.

Do the crime do the time.


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## Bushfire (Aug 13, 2009)

The GTP person only got $3000 and did keep his license and all his other animals.

When this does go to court Im expecting a much bigger fine. The thing going against him here is that he was caught in WA. WA does have a history of handing out much harsher penalties than other states for reptile related offenses. Those that were caught in QLD will get a much less fine.


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## Bushfire (Aug 13, 2009)

I agree you play with fire sooner or later you get burnt. No use lashing out on others when you flirt with legalities. Its pretty comical for him to previously openly talk about getting them in a public forum for the world to see.


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## zulu (Aug 13, 2009)

*re Snake*

Punnishment for some guy with some corn snakes or boas has to be taken into context,you do little time here for assault or murder,even when my 87 year old mother was home invaded andshook round by a young woman it didnt make the papers.Its a whole lot of crap rangers running round about snakes and when i get the house done over by thieves it takes three days to get the police to do fingerprints because they havent the manpower.


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## viridis (Aug 13, 2009)

Bushfire said:


> The GTP person only got $3000 and did keep his license and all his other animals.
> 
> When this does go to court Im expecting a much bigger fine. The thing going against him here is that he was caught in WA. WA does have a history of handing out much harsher penalties than other states for reptile related offenses. Those that were caught in QLD will get a much less fine.


 
Bushfire,
The keeper in mention was later fined in the vicinity of $30 000, not $3000

Call me old fashioned, but 30K is a lot of money to be out of pocket.

Viridis


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## Bushfire (Aug 14, 2009)

The two fines were separate incidents. He was fined $3000 + $300 costs for the four GTP he tried to smuggle in. However, when customs and DSE did the raid they found unlicensed animals and would of took his wildlife book and started to investigate all his transactions. The $30,000 fine + $1490 costs related to 29 charges from his unlicensed animals and the fudged paperwork found in his wildlife book, nothing to do with the four GTPs, so are considered separate events.

In my post I was referring to the smuggled offense that that Meyndert Bornman faced and did get to keep license and animals that were legal as not long after the first fine was handed down he had a few for sale adds in various places of a few of his legal animals.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Aug 14, 2009)

Where did you get that information bushfire? Would you care to share?


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Aug 14, 2009)

Unlicensed animals? Did you have access to his wildlife book? Have you got info that was never handed to the DSE. This bornman really is a dodgey character. He should be put in jail for life. $330000 would have been more appropriate and life in jail!


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## zulu (Aug 14, 2009)

*re Snake*



Cordylus said:


> Unlicensed animals? Did you have access to his wildlife book? Have you got info that was never handed to the DSE. This bornman really is a dodgey character. He should be put in jail for life. $330000 would have been more appropriate and life in jail!



Peadaphiles and people smugglers dont get life,he illegally imported and exported snakes and he got fined and heaps of resources were wasted.
An ideal and more sensible situation would be to allow import and tax it so resources can be put into areas where they are needed for the public.


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## CarpetPythons.com.au (Aug 14, 2009)

Whatever happened to the guy that got caught with the bag full of shinglebacks and albino carpet at sydney several months back? That seemed like a good attempt by customs! It seems like it was swept under the rug? A name was also never released to th media? I wonder how many of his mates ended up getting a knock on tbe door by customs!


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## Bushfire (Aug 14, 2009)

You can get almost all that info from the news articles written on his second court case. From my understanding I believe the $30000 fine is currently under appeal so maybe not set in stone yet. I do agree with you he was pretty dodgy and deserved the fine.

I based my comment on WA being harsher than other states in relation to wildlife crime on a number of cases. When I was at uni I lodged a number of FOI requests for prosecution stats with the wildlife authorities. Generally speaking and only dealing with natives the average fine handed out in WA was $2400 (the highest average), whereas in say Vic those similar offenses were only attracting $800 on average (the lowest average). With that in mind if I was doing something wrong and had to be caught, I would much like my chances of a token fine in Vic than any other state, especially WA.

NB. I cant remember what the period these stats relate too, I think it was the late 90s, but shows an interesting trend on how wildlife crime is treated between the various states.


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## Retic (Aug 14, 2009)

Will you stop trying to bring commonsense into these debates, don't you know where you are ?



zulu said:


> Peadaphiles and people smugglers dont get life,he illegally imported and exported snakes and he got fined and heaps of resources were wasted.
> An ideal and more sensible situation would be to allow import and tax it so resources can be put into areas where they are needed for the public.


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## therealstory (Aug 15, 2009)

*The real Story*

I thought you people would like to find out about the real story.
The authorities are blowing this whole smuggeling ring thing way out of proportion.
My friend is married and has three daughters. The girls found the bearded dragons near their tree house out the front. Their dad got them a proper warm house so they could feed them and clean up after them. Quite often you'd see his girls watching tv with the lizard on their chests.
They've had them for a couple of years now.
They only had the geckos for a couple of days, they were in their pet shop buying food for the bearded dragons and the young guy mentioned he was selling his geckos with their cage.
So their Dad bought them for the girls.
Some friends of his in QLD wanted some fish that he had and asked him if there was anything he would like for them. He enquired about some snakes, he wanted to trade the fish for some small friendly snakes for his kids.
They sent him a couple of pics of the snakes and told him they were Solomon Island ground boas. Which don't grow to the size the authorities made out the snakes grow to...... (the snake they showed was the one from the Perth Zoo.....his were only babies 30cm which grow to a maximum of 90 to 120cm).
My friend is not a smuggler and never has been, all of the reptiles were loved and well looked after. He's definately not part of a major smuggling ring, he knows now that he should of had a licence for the lizards.
This is the true story.
Any support for him, or help, would be appreciated.
He doesn't have much money, and is worried he'll loose everything because of the way the authorities are depicting him to everyone.


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## PilbaraPythons (Aug 15, 2009)

The question remains though, how did he purchase the geckos without a licence from a pet shop in the first place? The seller would have asked for his licence details for his own records, that’s assuming of course, the gecko’s were on licence in the first place. I find it extremely hard to believe that he didn’t know he needed a licence , as he was a participant on a W.A reptile forum, surely he isn't that green? I hardly think your friend was any real smuggler though, if he was he wouldn’t have announced his intention to receive the pythons publicly in the first place. 
Regardless of his circumstances now, I hope he starts again (this time with a licence) for his children’s sake as it sounds like they really loved the reptiles.


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## chondrogreen (Aug 15, 2009)

If that really is the real story then I am with Dave. I hope he is able to get a licence and collection in the future. Point your friend to this site for further info.


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## therealstory (Aug 16, 2009)

the young guy mentioned he was selling his geckos with their cage.
So their Dad bought them for the girls. they werent in a pet shop the kid that work there was selling them.


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## Retic (Aug 16, 2009)

You mean there isn't going to be a public lynching ? I felt sure this bloke was the kingpin of a some huge smuggling ring and now it turns out he just made a few naive mistakes, damn.


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